# Will modern Glycines retain value



## Virgul3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Hello,

Here is a bit of a speculation thread. I'd like to know the opinion of members who probably know more than me about the brand. 

I've been interested in the Airman Sphair 17, Airman SST12 and Combat Sub for a while and can't seem to pull the trigger on a buy. In fact, over the last months, I've seen price because more and more affordable. Also, I've recently heard that the brand was bought by Invicta, which could be looked by the Swiss elite has a brand suicide.

So before buying my first Glycine, I was wondering if future is bright for the brand and if value for modern Glycines should be well retained in the coming years.

Regards,


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## justin86 (Dec 24, 2011)

I certainly wouldn't look at either as an investment, but they are quality watches and if you want them I'd take advantage of the current affordable prices. I wouldn't hold my breath on any of them shooting up in value.


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## ccwatchmaker (Nov 28, 2015)

Based on what I know about modern ETA movements and the watch business in general, it is my opinion that modern Glycine watches will never be valuable collectibles. The overriding reason is that the current ETA movements are not well made and will likely not survive long enough to become collectible. These movements are manufactured with automatic machinery and largely assembled by robots. The cost of the movements, when purchased in the sort of quantities that companies like Glycine would buy, are shockingly inexpensive.

When modern watches are in need of service, they will, in most instances, be sent to a factory service center. Because the cost of a new movement is much less than the cost of labor to service the existing movement, the service center will simply swap the movement. At this point, the watch is no longer the one that was purchased. Of course, the cost of service will be the same as if the original movement had been serviced.

The parent company of ETA, SWATCH Group, has severely limited access to repair parts outside of factory repair centers, so seeking an independent watchmaker to service the watch will be difficult, and the amount of wear that these movements will suffer as the years pass may require the replacement of unobtainable parts.

Here is another issue regarding collectibility; there are no defining features of modern Glycine watches, other than the 24 hour/GMT functions, which are not unique.The only significant differences between Glycine and the dozens of other brands that share ETA movements and Chinese cases and bracelets is the name on the dial. The original Airman watches had a unique hack device that has never been duplicated. To me, this is what separates these vintage collectible watches from other similarly priced watches of that period.

If one wants a collectible watch, it makes more sense to buy one that is already judged to be collectible, rather than to buy a new watch with the hope that it will become collectible.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## Cigarbob (Jul 19, 2015)

I get a great deal of pleasure out of my Glycines, particularly the Airman purists. That's the value I look for in a watch.

The current prices make many of these watches easily affordable. If one speaks to you, I would suggest grabbing it.


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

ccwatchmaker said:


> Based on what I know about modern ETA movements and the watch business in general, it is my opinion that modern Glycine watches will never be valuable collectibles. The overriding reason is that the current ETA movements are not well made and will likely not survive long enough to become collectible. These movements are manufactured with automatic machinery and largely assembled by robots. The cost of the movements, when purchased in the sort of quantities that companies like Glycine would buy, are shockingly inexpensive.


This applies to all watches with ETA movements, except some which have the right brand, like Omega and Tudor. It's because of the brand, the movement is a secondary consideration and I don't know why you are so down on the ETA 2892, which is commonly found in a lot of modern Glycines.


> The parent company of ETA, SWATCH Group, has severely limited access to repair parts outside of factory repair centers, so seeking an independent watchmaker to service the watch will be difficult, and the amount of wear that these movements will suffer as the years pass may require the replacement of unobtainable parts.


Bit of an extension of the logic. Swatch will restrict ETA movements and parts will become more expensive as they encourage people to chuck their old automatics away and purchase a shiny new watch from their 202x collection. However this isn't a reason to value all ETA-powered watches at zero. And since SwatchCo will at least provide sevice options for the millions of watches they've made, and will continue to make, with ETA 2824/2892/7750 I doubt there will be a complete dry-up.


> Here is another issue regarding collectibility; there are no defining features of modern Glycine watches, other than the 24 hour/GMT functions, which are not unique.


No, the 24-hour bezel and 24-hour hour hand are defining; Glycine was the first to introduce it. I don't know of any watch currently in production that offers the same, although some have in the past. And "defining" is not the same as being unique; practically no watch has a unique characteristic any more and in any case it's not directly linked to value. Not even the $11m steel Patek chrono has anything defining _or _unique.

The hack mechanism was a defining function, but it's not just mechanisms that are defining. Also wasn't it binned because it was unncessarily complicated and nothing a regular internal hack mechanism could achieve?

Watch Snob also bagged hard on Glycine, castigating them as ordinary watches with no defining design features (wrong) and ordinary because they were fitted with standard movements unlike the originals (also wrong).


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## Virgul3 (Aug 3, 2016)

Yes, Glycine uses ETA movements but don't they have a Glycine given nomenclature ? Don't they change them a bit and make them their own ?

As for the watched becoming collectibles, this was never my intent. I am not interested in a collection that becomes invaluable with time and in which all watches are chosen because they are unique and (no pun intended) timeless. I am only interested in watches that appeal to me at the moment (style and function), have distinctive features, are by reputable brands and will retain most of their value in the next 5 years (short term). My collection, so far comprises of entry level watches (mainly Seikos, but also Citizen, Sea-Gull, Raymond Weil and Timex). This would be my first "truly" Swiss watch and I'm not even sure I wont sell or trade it to move up the ladder and establish a proper final long term collection. 

The Invicta buy out was mainly what concerned me here, but maintenance and construction is also a good thing to keep in mind.


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

Virgul3 said:


> Yes, Glycine uses ETA movements but don't they have a Glycine given nomenclature ? Don't they change them a bit and make them their own ?


No - only a new rotor. Which is basically the same as Alpina, Baume, Ball, Bremont, Concord, Damasko... all the way up to ML, Oris, Sinn, Tutima, Victorinox... basically all other non-Swatch Group brands that make Swiss automatics at the $1000-$2500 price level. Above that, you either find simple in-house movements, or tuned ETAs such as Tudor or Breitling.


> As for the watched becoming collectibles, this was never my intent. I am not interested in a collection that becomes invaluable with time and in which all watches are chosen because they are unique and (no pun intended) timeless.


Surely you jest - this forum prefers discussion only of iconic pieces 


> I am only interested in watches that appeal to me at the moment (style and function), have distinctive features, are by reputable brands and will retain most of their value in the next 5 years (short term). My collection, so far comprises of entry level watches (mainly Seikos, but also Citizen, Sea-Gull, Raymond Weil and Timex). This would be my first "truly" Swiss watch and I'm not even sure I wont sell or trade it to move up the ladder and establish a proper final long term collection.
> 
> The Invicta buy out was mainly what concerned me here, but maintenance and construction is also a good thing to keep in mind.


To my mind, the build is very good, as good as Oris but the cases aren't as sharp (or if you prefer, they are more "vintage"). The airman is particularly distinctive; not a lot of watches around that have its detailing. The Combat range is nicely styled by the cases are also quite simple. Dials are generally painted/printed. Finishing is very nice; the brushing in particular is well executed.









At the end of the day it won't matter. A lot of watch enthusiasts seek signalling effects and Glycine is an unknown, but for you there are different and more personal considerations. I am not sure what the latest watches are like with the winged crown (or possibly, eagle) logo. Some say the Combat Sub case has been changed slightly, neither for the better nor worse. Both my Airmen have been as tight as a drum, and a Combat owned several years ago was also nicely put together, at least as good as a similarly priced Hamilton or Oris of the time.


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## ccwatchmaker (Nov 28, 2015)

Bottom line to Virgul3's question is time will tell.



publandlord said:


> No, the 24-hour bezel and 24-hour hour hand are defining; Glycine was the first to introduce it. I don't know of any watch currently in production that offers the same, although some have in the past. And "defining" is not the same as being unique; practically no watch has a unique characteristic any more and in any case it's not directly linked to value. Not even the $11m steel Patek chrono has anything defining _or _unique.


You misunderstand; I agree that the 24-hour bezel and the 24-hour hand are defining, just not unique. Also agreed that the $11 Patek is not unique, but very rare, a quality not likely to be attained by any modern Glycine.



publandlord said:


> The hack mechanism was a defining function, but it's not just mechanisms that are defining. Also wasn't it binned because it was unnecessarily complicated and nothing a regular internal hack mechanism could achieve?


The original Glycine hack, used on both the Airman and the Combat models, was defining and also unique. It was not unnecessarily complicated. The device is no more mechanically complicated than the internal hack devices found in modern movements. There is a lever, one end of which is operated from a notch in the winding stem, and the other end which serves to stop the watch.

In the case of the vintage Glycine, the lever moved a wire that contacted the second hand at the zero point on the dial. In the case of the modern watches, the lever stops the balance wheel. The major difference and the uniqueness of the Glycine hack is that the second hand always stops at zero. In modern movements, the hack stops the watch regardless of the second hand position on the dial.

Be aware that in the mid-fifties, when the Glycine hack device was introduced, hacking watches were not at all common. For Glycine to design and manufacture their own made perfect sense.

It is my opinion that Glycine discontinued the wire hack because of cost. The lever, with the wire fitted, and the pivot pin had to be fabricated. The stem had to be modified; the movement ring had to be milled and drilled, and a hole drilled in the dial. Then the was the labor of assembly. When the SST models first came out, they were fitted with the A. Schild caliber 1902/03 movement and the wire hack. Then A. Schild began manufacturing the caliber 2163, which had an internal hack of the type we see on modern movements. Glycine adopted the caliber 2163, and the wire hack was no more.

Using the A. Schild caliber 2163 with the internal hack would have resulted in a substantial cost saving. This was about the time that the Japanese watches were beginning to encroach on what had been an almost exclusive Swiss market. The economics of watch manufacturing likely became more important than it had been before the Japanese began taking market share.

Repeating what I have written on other threads, the Glycine hack device is delicate, but not fragile. I know of no instance where a wire has broken in service. The reason the hacks are broken (usually the wire is damaged) is because most watch repairers are ignorant of how to properly disassemble and reassemble the device. The wires are replaceable if one has the knowledge, skill, and access to the .06 mm stainless steel wire. The levers, pivot pins, and modified stems are available, although rather expensive because they must be custom made.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## karwath (Feb 24, 2007)

The fact that Glycine makes such thin cases, which have the same or better WR as other, thicker cases, is what made me a fan a few years ago when I bought my first Combat Sub. Right now my most accurate watch is a Glycine Combat 7 I got in the recent price reductions, and it is about +1.5 second a day. It is one of the least expensive watches (certainly the least expensive Swiss brand) I have purchased. I do not see any reduction in quality in the 5 Glycine watches I have purchase in the past few months when prices have been so low compared to the quality of that original Combat Sub I bought a number of years ago.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

I think it's harsh to say that any modern Glycine will not retain value. While movements may be not exclusive the Glycine DNA makes difference.

Value is something tricky since you don't know how the product will be perceived in the market. It takes some time and reviews to understand which models are trendier than others. I can count several models which are considered from the new-er production and are pretty high in demand, some are even no-where to find; like the Eugene Meylan Automatic, Airman Double 12, Airman SST 06, Airman Sphair, Combat Golden Eye along with some clean dial entry level Combats.Not to forget the Airman 1953 Vintage and DC4 models iconic and well received. That's my list - not limited to - of future collectible Glycines. Aquarius I think is the newest to add to this list.

Non of these have exclusive movements apart from some touches in the movement,whether rhodium rotors, Geneva stripes or perlage, but it's the Glycine touch which adds them value.The dial configuration, the tool watch design and built materials define the watch in whole.

From the very recent collection which models will retain value or appreciate even, maybe we will need to wait a bit more.


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

ccwatchmaker said:


> You misunderstand; I agree that the 24-hour bezel and the 24-hour hand are defining, just not unique. Also agreed that the $11 Patek is not unique, but very rare, a quality not likely to be attained by any modern Glycine.


Again, I don't see a correlation between uniqueness and value retention. As you can see, Glycine came up with the 24h bezel and 24h hand combination, and this has been in production continuously since then (something that normally makes WIS go cock-a-hoop!) and I can't think of any watch currently in production that makes something like this. But they don't retain value particularly well, especially not since they were dumped on the market following the buy-out.

Compare the Submariner. Homages, copies, knock-offs, variants everywhere. Nothing unique or even stand-out. Yet people pay $12k for a duffer. Right brand, and a heady dose of irrational exuberance.

Additionally has anyone suggested that any modern Glycine ought to be highly valued by the market because it is rare?


> The original Glycine hack, used on both the Airman and the Combat models, was defining and also unique....



It's not surprising most watchmakers are "ignorant", as you say, as the hack mechanism was discontinued around 40 years ago and I imagine most of the watchmakers who would have been familiar with this mechanism are now retired or dead. The Airman then went quartz - hey, so did most darling brands - and when it came back in 1998, no-one was making hack movements with a wire at 12 any more. Marginal benefit over a regular hacking movement unless you were in the field on active duty, in which case, you just bought a G-Shock.


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## BerutoSenpai (Sep 7, 2016)

Glycine recently was bought by Invicta, maybe their quality might get worse..


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Baselfair is coming soon, we shall see...


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## Cigarbob (Jul 19, 2015)

Invicta has great name recognition, and they sell a ton of watches. I don't think that they bought Glycine to make another cheap brand, they already have that market sewed up.

I won't be surprised to see some nicely put together Glycines under Invicta's umbrella.


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## ccwatchmaker (Nov 28, 2015)

Uniqueness is only one quality that makes watches retain value. Rarity, age, brand, and quality are others. There are many reasons for watches to retain value or to increase in value.



publandlord said:


> _It's not surprising most watchmakers are "ignorant", as you say, as the hack mechanism was discontinued around 40 years ago and I imagine most of the watchmakers who would have been familiar with this mechanism are now retired or dead. The Airman then went quartz - hey, so did most darling brands - and when it came back in 1998, no-one was making hack movements with a wire at 12 __any more__. __Marginal__ benefit over a regular hacking movement unless you were in the field on active duty, in which case, you just bought a G-Shock_.


Simply because most of the watchmakers from forty years ago are no longer working (this one is), is not an excuse for being ignorant of how to properly service a watch, regardless of the mechanism. As I write this, there is a watch on my bench from 1740, with a quarter repeating mechanism. Granted, there are not many watchmakers currently at the bench who were around in 1740, but that is no reason the watch cannot be competently repaired.

Yes, the hack is of marginal benefit. However, it is, in my opinion, a major factor for why vintage Airman watches often sell for twenty times what they originally cost. There are other watch complications, some of similarly or even less marginal benefit, that greatly increase the value of a watch. An excellent example is the tourbillion. It made sense when it was invented (circa 1795) and fitted to pocket watches. For a wristwatch, it is simply a gimmick, albeit an expensive one.

No manufacturer ever made movements with wire hacks at either 12 or 24. The Glycine wire hack is not part of the movement; it is a separate device attached to the movement ring that holds the movement into the case. If you do a Google search for "Glycine Airman Hack", you will find photographs and explanation of how the device is made and how it works. If Glycine wished to revive the wire hack, it would not be difficult.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## vincesf (Jun 8, 2009)

I have recently acquired an appreciation to Glyine watches and find them a good value, especially factoring in their heritage and the cult status of the Airman.
Personally, if you are looking for watches to retain their value, you should probably go vintage. My rate of return on these watches will be correlated to their enjoyment and use, rather than resale value. It's been my limited experience that new watches don't hold their value, and the trick is buying a lightly used watch (catch and release), at a good price to lessen the initial depreciation.


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## 5-Oclock-Somewhere (Feb 4, 2017)

Virgul3 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Here is a bit of a speculation thread. I'd like to know the opinion of members who probably know more than me about the brand.
> 
> ...


Respectfully, I think that making a watch purchase with an eye to value retention is silly in most cases. WIS are a fickle bunch. Today's favorite darling can easily be tomorrow's forgotten bust. Certain brands with very popular name recognition like Rolex do retain their value, but even some Rolex watches do not fall into this category. Most watches are not meant for the long haul these days. They are meant to be worn and appreciated for what they are. There are a handful of watches that I would consider prestigious enough to merit treatment as investment quality pieces. The original Speedmasters for example. Unless you are targeting an investment quality piece, forget what today's $1000 watch may be worth tomorrow because chances are it will be a disappointment.

Having said that, Glycine makes a great watch. I own a Combat Sub and I could care less what it will be worth in 20 years. In the here and now it is giving me great pleasure to wear it!


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## Don Logan (Mar 17, 2013)

publandlord said:


> ...Some say the Combat Sub case has been changed slightly, neither for the better nor worse...


The Combat Sub case has definitely been changed and for the better IMO. They are all very subtle tweaks but taken together improve the watch esthetically.

Some changes aside from the logo I've noticed...

(Again for emphasis _subtle_.)

*The one that jumps out is that the lugs are no longer drilled. 
*It wears a tiny bit smaller because of the new increased curve or shape of the lugs which make it look even for lack of a better word - cooler on a NATO strap. 
*.35mm or so thicker.
*Knurl on the crown brushed nicely to match the finish.
*Crown guards come to a square point as opposed to a rectangle.
* My favorite change, again this is real nuance, have to look for it or you'll miss it, watch geek type stuff, is the bezel on the new models slightly slopes down from the crystal edge to the knurl. Which deemphasizes how flat the watch is and makes it easier to photograph. The prior case is so flat you could probably rest a wine glass on it.

I am still comparing and contrasting there's probably more. Ideally I'd love for all my Combat Subs to have the new case but with drilled lugs. If given the the choice I'd take the new case over the prior despite the lack of drilling.


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## SWIMTEXAN (Feb 5, 2015)

Don Logan said:


> The Combat Sub case has definitely been changed and for the better IMO. They are all very subtle tweaks but taken together improve the watch esthetically.
> 
> Some changes aside from the logo I've noticed...
> 
> ...


I would agree that these changes (less the logo) have improved the overall aesthetic and utility of the combat sub collection. Additionally, the market prices have certainly decreased as a whole for the entire collection. However, I would imagine that the pre-logo change collections could see a potential future rise in value, assuming that Glycine does not revert to the previous logo in the future. Regards, ST.


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## river rat (Apr 6, 2008)

Vintage ones like the airman with the history of veterans using them in Vietnam and the unique wire hacking that makes it different with a cult like following makes it hold it value and prices have been shooting up on them. New ones won't have that rich history plus the invicta thing we all know what watch collectors think of them QVC. So will new ones hold there value I don't think so.


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## vincesf (Jun 8, 2009)

Invicta has a huge distribution network. Last week I traveled to Mexico and Invicta watches were in every shopping center and airport that I visited. Each shop was comprised of 97% quartz watches. I will be interested to see whether Glycine watches will be sold next to Invicta watches or in separate stores, what types of watches will they offer, what movements will we see in them, and of course relevant to this thread - their price points. If Glycine stays at a $2,600 price point for an Airman, good luck. One of the reasons we are seeing blow out prices on the old Glycine watch stock is that perhaps Glycine will go through a new product and lower pricing structure to make them an attractive alternative when offered side by side with a quartz Invicta. This is pure speculation, as Invicta has stated that it will continue on with the Glycine tradition, but the watch industry is going through a tough time at the moment and tradition often takes a back seat when it comes to business/profit. If this happens, the pre-Invicta watches will probably be prefered by "Purists", but again retention of value is unlikely. Retention of value, is however, very likely at the blow out prices offered today, but again my focus is wearing and enjoying these unusual watches.


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## Lrmadsen (Mar 13, 2016)

I did notice that Glycine is now having the warranty work done by Invicta's service center in Utah for those in the US.


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## SWIMTEXAN (Feb 5, 2015)

vincesf said:


> Invicta has a huge distribution network. Last week I traveled to Mexico and Invicta watches were in every shopping center and airport that I visited. Each shop was comprised of 97% quartz watches. I will be interested to see whether Glycine watches will be sold next to Invicta watches or in separate stores, what types of watches will they offer, what movements will we see in them, and of course relevant to this thread - their price points. If Glycine stays at a $2,600 price point for an Airman, good luck. One of the reasons we are seeing blow out prices on the old Glycine watch stock is that perhaps Glycine will go through a new product and lower pricing structure to make them an attractive alternative when offered side by side with a quartz Invicta. This is pure speculation, as Invicta has stated that it will continue on with the Glycine tradition, but the watch industry is going through a tough time at the moment and tradition often takes a back seat when it comes to business/profit. If this happens, the pre-Invicta watches will probably be prefered by "Purists", but again retention of value is unlikely. Retention of value, is however, very likely at the blow out prices offered today, but again my focus is wearing and enjoying these unusual watches.


Good points, also consider the rise of the ETA movements which is stifling competition and (potentially) killing off some of the smaller boutique watch companies. The ETA 2834 is being used in many of the Glycine collection.


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## vincesf (Jun 8, 2009)

SWIMTEXAN said:


> Good points, also consider the rise of the ETA movements which is stifling competition and (potentially) killing off some of the smaller boutique watch companies. The ETA 2834 is being used in many of the Glycine collection.


I may be wrong about this, but at one point ETA wanted to stop supplying movements to companies outside of their ownership group. As a result many larger watch manufacturers like Breitling, Tag,etc, started producing their own movements in anticipation of ETA limiting availability of their movements. I believe these limitations have eased up a bit, due to the equivalency of anti-trust concerns. However, this would really have had a profound impact to companies like Glycine that rely heavily on ETA movements. Even though Invicta has stated they are not going to change things at Glycine, will they be able to keep ETA movements in their watches?


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## raisinblack1 (Apr 1, 2017)

hmm


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## UAconcorde (Jan 13, 2014)

Lrmadsen said:


> I did notice that Glycine is now having the warranty work done by Invicta's service center in Utah for those in the US.


GAsp!Really?ShouldIrefrainfromsendingforwarrantyrepair?


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## r-gordon-7 (Dec 6, 2016)

UAconcorde said:


> GAsp!Really?ShouldIrefrainfromsendingforwarrantyrepair?


Similar question, as my Airman Base 22 Lume GMT (bought in December from the gooroo) is experiencing intermittent stoppages (but oddly, only intermittently while I'm wearing it, with no stoppages at all while it is in the winder) - and intermittent problems can be difficult to get properly serviced, as the problem may not surface during a short evaluation when sent in for repair, only to continue to intermittently reappear after the watch is returned from "repair" with nothing having been done to find and correct the intermittent problem...

What experiences, if any, have folks here had with the service center in Utah?


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## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

vincesf said:


> ..will they be able to keep ETA movements in their watches?


Yes.


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## Stayclassycliff (Feb 14, 2017)

I feel like prices have been so good on Glycines that retained value means less than the love for the watch. It certainly helps that prices are so good.


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## Stayclassycliff (Feb 14, 2017)

Does this end up as a good or bad thing for us?



Lrmadsen said:


> I did notice that Glycine is now having the warranty work done by Invicta's service center in Utah for those in the US.


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## Wrangler_Man (Jul 4, 2016)

I have two Glycines, both purchased new within the last 6 months. They're both solid and I like them a lot. They sport the new logo so I'm sure they are post-Invicta, but they look identical to their pre-Invicta versions. However, there is something about one of them that just screams "Invicta!". I can't put my finger on it. Maybe its the coloring, maybe its just me. Its not a problem, just a vibe.


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## calcisme (Oct 4, 2015)

Wrangler_Man said:


> I have two Glycines, both purchased new within the last 6 months. They're both solid and I like them a lot. They sport the new logo so I'm sure they are post-Invicta, but they look identical to their pre-Invicta versions. However, there is something about one of them that just screams "Invicta!". I can't put my finger on it. Maybe its the coloring, maybe its just me. Its not a problem, just a vibe.


My understanding is that the logo change occurred pre-Invicta, so that is not a definitive way to tell whether your watch is pre- or post-Invicta. I am curious about the watch that 'screams "Invicta!".' Could you post pictures, so we can see what you mean?


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

calcisme said:


> My understanding is that the logo change occurred pre-Invicta, so that is not a definitive way to tell whether your watch is pre- or post-Invicta. I am curious about the watch that 'screams "Invicta!".' Could you post pictures, so we can see what you mean?


Yep. The logo changed at the beginning of 2016 and the announcement about the acquisition was made August of that year. Also would be curious to see which one "screams Invicta"!


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## vincesf (Jun 8, 2009)

publandlord said:


> Yep. The logo changed at the beginning of 2016 and the announcement about the acquisition was made August of that year. Also would be curious to see which one "screams Invicta"!


I am curious as well. As for the new logo, I like it, whether it occured pre or post-Invicta.


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## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

The feeling that a Glycine model screams Invicta is a psychological phenomenon. 

Now, when the new skeletonized Airfighter comes out, I can see people thinking Invicta. I still like them though.


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## LDoc (Mar 16, 2018)

I just went through the modern vs. vintage-ish Glycine Airman decision tree and decided to go with the Airman 46 1999 (ref: 3820) over the modern GL0059 (see pics). My 225mm wrist meant I wanted (needed) a 46mm case eliminating modern DC-4 and SST-12 models and true vintage Airman models from 50s and 60s. I wanted a black dial so I bought the GL0059, which is available on the gray market between 600 and 800. Excellent condition 3820 models were available in the 900 to 1200 range, and I picked one up for 750EUR. Both these models satisfied my base size and color requirements, but I liked 3820's dial, hand, and bezel design much more than the GL0059 model once both watches were in my hands.

The 3820 features are more true to the original Airman, which may help it retain or possibly increase in value. Now I need to shift or return the GL0059, but that was all in the process to make the right decision for me. Although, I probably should have checked one out at a local dealer!

I trust my aesthetic instincts most unless a premium price is in play because of market demand (i.e. some Rolex models). I keep items I have 100% aesthetic mental sign off on, and I have enough examples in my life of being on the right side of aesthetic/value decisions within multiple collectible categories to give me confidence. When I paid 1800 dollars for a Panerai PAM00010 in January 2000 because I fell in love with it at a jewelry store in the Bellagio my friends thought I was nuts, but...

The bottom line for me to be happy is to put fondness - market price hysteria, not in play - ahead of value speculation unless you are looking to flip the watch or are a dealer.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

All this talking got me interested so I looked and having several Glycine timepieces noticed a difference among the logo, which I presume means the "wings" I just received an Airman DC-4 and it is totally lacking the logo so I looked at the Glycine website and several retailers and noticed that is the case, this particular model does not have that logo.


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## Blackrain (Apr 4, 2007)

I have been so happy with the quality (and price) of my combat sub, I am looking into getting an airman myself. I can't say I am doing it for collectibility, but if I tire of either of these watches, I feel it probably will not be hard to recoup fair market value on the sales corner, again, due to the value of the piece itself.


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