# What makes a Promaster?



## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

I just recently acquired the pmd56-2864 and my Citizen collection is not rivaling my Bulovas in the number of pieces.

As I was observing the PMD, it caught my brother's attention of the seconds hand, which is also used on the SkyHawk and on the World Time AT; but not on the Night Hawk and much less the BM.

So, timex has a relative progression Easy Reader, Expedition, Waterbury (Archive Collection), Navi Line. Bulova has the Marine Star, and Precisionist.

The Citizen World Time is not a marketed as a ProMaster, but shares the seconds hand and it is built on par to the SkyHawk. So, what is the inside story of what makes a Promaster a Promaster?

Citizen by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

Citizen Family by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Citizen has for decades sold their watches according to categories or themes or sub-brands. These days there is (in Japan) Exceed, Attesa, The Citizen, and also a couple sub-brands for women, like xC. A Promaster is aimed at the Professional Master, so it is supposed to be sporty (as in useable for sports) and rugged, but there are no fixed parameters. For example, why the Tsuno Chronographs are Promaster is beyond me. I guess they just wanted to place it above the non-sub-branded line of 'normal' watches, so they went with Promaster. If it was sold in Japan they would probably put in the Promaster Land subcategory, since it is not Sea or Sky.

In Citizen's own words:
*PROMASTER - Authentic sports watch for the world ´s professionals*
From its debut in 1989, the PROMASTER professional sports watch has been a firm favourite with professionals who challenge their limits.

Functionality enabled by innovative technology.
Carefully thought-through safety for the user.
Durability suited for extreme environments.
*Go Deeper. Go Higher. Go Further.*

CITIZEN's professional sports watch brand takes performance to a higher level to meet the needs of the pros who blaze the trails others follow.
Beyond your imagination.


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> Citizen has for decades sold their watches according to categories or themes or sub-brands. These days there is (in Japan) Exceed, Attesa, The Citizen, and also a couple sub-brands for women, like xC. A Promaster is aimed at the Professional Master, so it is supposed to be sporty (as in useable for sports) and rugged, but there are no fixed parameters. For example, why the Tsuno Chronographs are Promaster is beyond me. I guess they just wanted to place it above the non-sub-branded line of 'normal' watches, so they went with Promaster. If it was sold in Japan they would probably put in the Promaster Land subcategory, since it is not Sea or Sky.
> 
> In Citizen's own words:
> *PROMASTER - Authentic sports watch for the world ´s professionals*
> ...


Awesome.. exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

Citizen SkyHawk by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## Rocket1991 (Mar 15, 2018)

I think it's usually 200m WR and better lume in some cases. Rest is stylistic. 
No difference between Skyhawk pro and/ just sky


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Wolfsatz said:


> Awesome.. exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!


Well considering my username I had to reply, didn't I? 

Another interesting (auto-translated) text from a Japanese webpage about Promaster technology & history: TECHNOLOGY & HISTORY | PROMASTER スペシャルサイト [シチズン腕時計] | CITIZEN
"Promaster, a brand for land, sea and air professionals, was born in 1989. Citizen has been developing series for various sports scenes as "Sporte" and "Citizen Sporting Life" since before that. The logo at the time of the promaster brand was also designed with arrows indicating "higher" and "deeper" and the initials SS of "Sporting Spirits" as motifs. Promaster's specifications, which meet the needs of professionals working in harsh environments, have been realized through citizen's challenge to develop watches, which have been accumulated for 100 years."

Well that is new information for me too, I hadn't found the origin of the logo before!

I obviously love Promaster as a sub-brand, and while they probably stole the "master" part from Omega (Seamaster, Speedmaster), they really made it their own thing, and they even inspired other brands, as I've pointed out before.

Of course it is mostly marketing talk, but it is very true that professional divers and pilots, both military and civilian, use Promaster watches. They have also sponsored expeditions, which spawned several watches, like the Robert Swan Mission Antarctica and the "regular" Mission Antarctica.


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## aafanatic (Feb 25, 2008)

CitizenPromaster said:


> PROMASTER - Authentic sports watch for the world ´s professionals





CitizenPromaster said:


> CITIZEN's professional sports watch brand takes performance to a higher level to meet the needs of the pros who blaze the trails others follow.
> Beyond your imagination.


This is exactly why I love this forum

I have three sections in my watch collection. *Attesa, Signature, and Promaster.* They all have their own super powers.

PS: I have a Promaster Sky Satellite Wave GPS arriving today, and another on Monday!


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## drunken-gmt-master (Mar 29, 2018)

CitizenPromaster said:


> . . .
> 
> Another interesting (auto-translated) text from a Japanese webpage about Promaster technology & history: TECHNOLOGY & HISTORY | PROMASTER スペシャルサイト [シチズン腕時計] | CITIZEN
> "Promaster, a brand for land, sea and air professionals, was born in 1989. Citizen has been developing series for various sports scenes as "Sporte" and "Citizen Sporting Life" since before that. The logo at the time of the promaster brand was also designed with arrows indicating "higher" and "deeper" and the initials SS of "Sporting Spirits" as motifs. Promaster's specifications, which meet the needs of professionals working in harsh environments, have been realized through citizen's challenge to develop watches, which have been accumulated for 100 years."
> ...


Cool, that pretty much confirms my theory in a thread where it was suggested that Citizen based the Promaster symbol on the British Ministry of Defence's broad arrow.


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

As far as I know the logo made its debut on the Aqualand in 1985.










The current logo is slighty different by the way, with the two parts connected and some curvature here and there


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well considering my username I had to reply, didn't I?
> 
> Another interesting (auto-translated) text from a Japanese webpage about Promaster technology & history: TECHNOLOGY & HISTORY | PROMASTER スペシャルサイト [シチズン腕時計] | CITIZEN
> "Promaster, a brand for land, sea and air professionals, was born in 1989. Citizen has been developing series for various sports scenes as "Sporte" and "Citizen Sporting Life" since before that. The logo at the time of the promaster brand was also designed with arrows indicating "higher" and "deeper" and the initials SS of "Sporting Spirits" as motifs. Promaster's specifications, which meet the needs of professionals working in harsh environments, have been realized through citizen's challenge to develop watches, which have been accumulated for 100 years."
> ...





> Promaster is our collection of professional-grade sports watches with an appeal for the everyday adventurer. Looking to the past, we reflect on our rich history of timekeeping innovation; Promaster has always been inspired by great adventures, with the highest levels of functionality and endurance for each category in Air, Land, and Sea. As time moves forward, CITIZEN continues its tradition of bold innovation
> in technology and style.


SkyHawk by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

NightHawk by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

Bonus Shot ! I know is not a Promaster but has the same built quality
Citizen World AT by Wolfsatz, on Flickr[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


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## Simon (Feb 11, 2006)

such a good thread - grateful for @CitizenPromaster for his knowledge

I did wonder whether the 200m WR was a major indicator in the categorization
I too am uncertain why my Tsuno's are Promaster range - they seem both dressier n less toolish than my other 4 Promasters


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> Citizen has been developing series for various sports scenes as "Sporte" and "Citizen Sporting Life" since before that.


As indicated by the above, before Citizen adopted "Promaster" as the brand in Japan, they used "Sporte".










Some watches had the above logo on the dial.










Other watches only had the "half empty" arrow.










However, international models got the same logo in Japan as worldwide.










Finally there were also many watches sold in the Sporte category that didn't have the "Sporte" name or logo on the dial, they just said Citizen, so there's no point in showing an example.

How do I know all this? I found some old scanned catalogues from Citizen Japan on a competing forum. In the 80s and 90s they had many, many sub-brands that have since disappeared. All of them had their own logos and slogans and the dials were branded as such, sometimes not even mentioning the name Citizen. It must have been very confusing for the public. Have a look for yourself if you're interested. Beware though, you can spend hours in those old catalogues and needs may arise!

I personally hate it when a company changes a logo for no reason other than keeping the marketing department busy. So I'm sticking with the OG Promaster logo and font!


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Rocket1991 said:


> I think it's usually 200m WR and better lume in some cases.





Simon said:


> I did wonder whether the 200m WR was a major indicator in the categorization


200 meter / 20 bar WR does seem to be the minimum, while regular Citizens seem to be 5 or 10 bar.


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Simon said:


> I too am uncertain why my Tsuno's are Promaster range - they seem both dressier n less toolish than my other 4 Promasters


Because it is a Racing Inspired Chronograph... goes with the sports theme. Ido think it belongs here with the other Promaster watches. The Panda one is actually so damn good looking.


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## aafanatic (Feb 25, 2008)

This little symbol on the crown helps


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## Simon (Feb 11, 2006)

Wolfsatz said:


> Because it is a Racing Inspired Chronograph... goes with the sports theme. Ido think it belongs here with the other Promaster watches. The Panda one is actually so damn good looking.


I guess so - just not sure why a racing chrono needs 200m WR - nor a pilots watch for that matter  
I agree - love the Panda


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Simon said:


> I guess so - just not sure why a racing chrono needs 200m WR - nor a pilots watch for that matter





















The Tsuno is a Caliber 2100 turned on its side and that was also a Promaster, so chronographs apparently qualify as a sports watch, which is fair enough.


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> View attachment 15667586
> 
> 
> View attachment 15667588
> ...


I am thinking that the Panda ProMaster Tsuno may just be my next serious watch purchase.. perhaps for my BD! It just so sexy!


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

feels like Promaster is similar to PROSPEX, kind of a "pro" standard for their watches (but tbh is equally marketing). there seems to be 'land, air, and sea' Prospex and Promaster seems to follow the same logic somewhat imo.

i only have 1 and though it's Eco Drive the bracelet puts it on par with a typical bracelet model Prospex as far as finish/quality/value (except the promaster clasp _blows away_ the Seiko clasp). may even out-spec a typical Turtle as the Citizen also has AR on it's mineral and a signed crown.


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Oh no, you said the P-word! Yes, obviously Prospex (Pro Specs -> Professional Specifications) is the Seiko analogue to Promaster, and Seiko has a long history of "professional" watches, but if I'm not mistaking as a brand Prospex is younger than the Promaster brand which was launched in 1989. It started out as a JDM brand (I can't ascertain when) and became international quite recently (2014?).

One big difference? People love the Promaster logo on the dial of their Citizen, but not everyone loves the X (actually a stylized S and P) on the dial of their Seiko 😈

A YouTube commenter on below video: "One thing all those great historic watches have in common? NO PROSPEX LOGO!!! Please Seiko, these are fantastic new watches, let down by tacky, crude branding, poor quality bracelets/clasps and average face/hand finish. They will not compete at the same price as the Swiss/Germans until these things are changed! Spring drive is great, but not enough to overcome these flaws."






A similar thread to this one but about Prospex soon got people confessing their hate for the brand and the X logo: Prospex difference? | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

But to be fair, the haters are a minority, they are just the most vocal ones:
Seiko Prospex Symbol: What's the general consensus? Time for a poll! | WatchUSeek Watch Forums
Why all the hate for the Prospex "X" logo??? | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

Anyway, another difference for JDM Promaster models and since recent times also some worldwide Promaster models is that some titanium models have Duratect MRK instead of Duratect TIC, so gas hardened titanium rather than titanium with an ion-plated titanium carbide coating. What all of that means can be found in the Titanium thread.


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> One big difference? People love the Promaster logo on the dial of their Citizen, but not everyone loves the X (actually a stylized S and P) on the dial of their Seiko 😈


I'll be the first one to confess that I find the X logo one of the worst marketing stints ever made. Some great watches are totally killed by the X factor. 🤦 And yes, the Promaster logo is a genuine staple of marketing.


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

unfortunately seiko isn't removing prospex because people don't like it, we've clearly seen this =(


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

timetellinnoob said:


> unfortunately seiko isn't removing prospex because people don't like it, we've clearly seen this =(


As easy as making two versions.. one with and one without.. but then again... Seiko may careless what we think.


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

Wolfsatz said:


> As easy as making two versions.. one with and one without.. but then again... *Seiko may careless what we think.*


that's basically what i'm getting at. =\

they do what their numbers suggest. almost no conglomerate can actually listen to it's "fans". they do what they do to keep the factories pumping, not "what the people want." haha


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## Rocket1991 (Mar 15, 2018)

I don't see much problem with Prosepx apart from often inflated prices. There is not much of special going on but that typical for many watch types like "Field", "tool", "divers style", "takticool", "trench" etc. they more of style than substance in form of specific functions. People buy chronos with no reasonable ability to be used as chronograph. Some reputable brands pump (Casio) fake chronos with pushers which don't work. My point as far as people buy it...
I like Citizen because they often look more interesting, offer more value, bulletproof, solar and in many cases have advanced quartz movement and been part of some line or families ... it's rather afterthought.
Pretty sure manufactures know it to some degree. So in some cases though it may sound offensive i don't mean anything bad. There is nothing what makes for example Timex expedition more suited for expeditions of any sort compared to let say any other 50m WR Timex. That said i love their style and Expedition in this case is more of the style "umbrella".
Promaster used to be more lax in old days and till now some model can be sold in both promaster and non promaster way. And some been outright more on dressy side.
My point there are a lot of freedom in how manufactures decide on what wil be branded as pro and what will not.


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## Ziptie (Jun 25, 2016)

Wolfsatz said:


> As I was observing the PMD, it caught my brother's attention of the seconds hand, which is also used on the SkyHawk and on the World Time AT; but not on the Night Hawk and much less the BM.


The second hand treatment with the C shape indicates radio reception. It's meant to represent a radio dish antenna. It's unrelated to the Promaster designation.


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Ziptie said:


> The second hand treatment with the C shape indicates radio reception. It's meant to represent a radio dish antenna. It's unrelated to the Promaster designation.


Where did you read that? It sounds plausible enough though.


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## Ziptie (Jun 25, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> Where did you read that? It sounds plausible enough though.


Here somewhere. I don't believe I've seen it officially confirmed anywhere, but once it was pointed out to me I started paying attention and I have yet to see an exception. Presumably one could test the hypothesis on a citizen website by doing a search on radio controlled and then not, and seeing if the results were consistent.


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Ziptie said:


> Here somewhere. I don't believe I've seen it officially confirmed anywhere, but once it was pointed out to me I started paying attention and I have yet to see an exception. Presumably one could test the hypothesis on a citizen website by doing a search on radio controlled and then not, and seeing if the results were consistent.


Well, it holds true for all of these: Radio Controlled - Citizen Watch Europe

And most of the Satellite Wave watches have an arrow looking thing: Satellite Wave - Citizen Watch Europe

I will have to add this to the radiocontrolled history thread.


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

How Promaster do you want it?


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

ProMaster PMD56 by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## TJ19 (Dec 6, 2020)

The Triangle on the crown!


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

It's a Promaster if you wear this jacket



















You can turn it inside out if you want to wear another watch or if you're going to Burning Man


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> It's a Promaster if you wear this jacket
> 
> View attachment 15751285
> 
> ...


now I want one.


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Wolfsatz said:


> now I want one.


It's size L and $100. Still want it?


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> It's size L and $100. Still want it?


too small.


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Citizen ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

Citizen ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Haha that's funny! Your S is upside down though ;-)


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## Ziptie (Jun 25, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> It's a Promaster if you wear this jacket
> 
> View attachment 15751285
> 
> ...


If only I was still going to burning man...


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

CitizenPromaster said:


> Haha that's funny! Your S is upside down though ;-)


I was hoping no one would've notice.. I noticed after the shot was taken and then the sun was hitting my board.


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## Charliejadk (Jul 17, 2020)

Very sharp! Those remind me a great deal of the Rolex Explorer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Citizen by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## aafanatic (Feb 25, 2008)

@Wolfsatz Is that new to you? It looks AWEsome


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

aafanatic said:


> @Wolfsatz Is that new to you? It looks AWEsome


It arrived a few months ago. And yes, this one will stay with me for a longggg time.


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Earlier Today 
Mrs Wallace by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

but .. swapping for Field Day Friday 
Walking the Garden after it rained all night 
ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Citizen Pro Master PMD-56 by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

Citizen Pro Master PMD-56 by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Citizen ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## jwernatl (Dec 21, 2014)

Wolfsatz said:


> Bonus Shot ! I know is not a Promaster but has the same built quality
> Citizen World AT by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

I own this watch. The bracelet is crazy awesome. Solid end links, the clasp is machined- such a great feel. The other week I had a few leather straps come in. One was a chocolate brown that i hadn't ordered, i called the shop - they were already aware that they shipped it by accident, they said - enjoy and ot was on the house.

It matched the brown on the dial pretty good, so reluctantly, I swapped it over for the braclet.

I wore it out to dinner Friday night and I recieved two compliments from total strangers. It transformed it into a different animal.

But to 'Wolfsatz' point - its carries the same traits as my other promasters. Ive had it for years and is a 'go to' for reliability and accuracy 
I know the time is extremely accurate (perfect may be a better description) And it is crazy durable.

Here's a pic of that chocolate leather strap...

Its like having two great watches!


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

JPEG image-76814EE884B8-1 by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## Ziptie (Jun 25, 2016)

jwernatl said:


> I own this watch. The bracelet is crazy awesome. Solid end links, the clasp is machined- such a great feel. The other week I had a few leather straps come in. One was a chocolate brown that i hadn't ordered, i called the shop - they were already aware that they shipped it by accident, they said - enjoy and ot was on the house.


Great combo! What brand is that strap?


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## jwernatl (Dec 21, 2014)

Great combo! What brand is

I ordered ot off of Etsy.

Jist fyi- it took a long time to get here. It ships from overseas. And i didn't know it at the time. Had i known , i may have ordered from states.

It is very comfortable.

MA watch strap 26 24 22 mm Genuine Calf Leather Flottiglia X | Etsy


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Eco Drive by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

SkyHwk by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## Simon (Feb 11, 2006)

my new one today - saw it, couldnt believe it cos America normally gets all the limiteds - had to have it, negotiated a little off and BOOM


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

Citizen ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

Citizen ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

Citizen ProMaster by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

NIghtHawk by Wolfsatz, on Flickr

NIghtHawk over Hostas by Wolfsatz, on Flickr


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## aafanatic (Feb 25, 2008)




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## TAHAWK (Dec 20, 2021)

I love this one for appearance. Date is almost useless - tiny pit with negative numbers. Fake working bezel, but i have rarely used a workingbezel,


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