# body chemistry



## Troy (Feb 10, 2006)

Has anyone on here had a problem with black marks on their wrists from the steel bracelet? Since the heavy summer hit here, I have been working outside a lot more, and still maintaining a presence in the pool, but my wrist is suffering. I have had problems in the past with skin discolouration from wearing silver, which I no longer do, but never with a stainless steel bracelet on a watch. Any ideas?

Troy


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## John Vargas (May 30, 2006)

Troy,

You are not having problems because of Stainless Steel Bracelet, or Case. You are having a reaction due the *perspiration, and or water* that is coming in contact with the Stainless Steel and your skin.

You are highly sensitive to nickel, and your skin is turning black due to the chemical reaction. In order for an allergic reaction to occur, the skin of a sensitive individual (*in this case you*) must be in direct contact with the object containing the nickel. Luckily for you, you do nut suffer true nickel allergy, if you did, you would have red inflamed red skin versus the black skin. 

Another condition for an allergic response is that the nickel must be liberated rather easily from its alloy onto the skin in the form of cations, or positively charged particles. For watches, this necessarily means the case or the bracelet. 

Thirdly, these positive ions must be transported by some sort of fluid serving as an electrolyte. This liquid most often is sweat, but may also be water from the sea or from a swimming pool.

The stainless steel used in the manufacture of watch cases liberates varying amounts of nickel ions depending on the nature of the alloy and the proportions of the individual components.

What this means is most metals that you will come in contact with (*gold, silver, or any other alloy containing nickel*) your skin will have some sort of reaction. Sterling Silver is a hypoallergenic metal, so if you were wearing Sterling and your skin turned black you are hypersensitive to nickel.

Although in most stainless steel, the nickel is so tightly bound that very little of it actually escapes. In your case, even the few particles that are coming in contact with your skin and sweat causes the black reaction.

Nickel Sensitivity can occur at any time at any age. Basically, to sum it up you will always have a reaction to any metal watch, more especially if the watch is not stainless steel.

Most importantly, if you ever undergo a surgical procedure, ensure that you inform the doctor or nurse that you are extremely sensitive to nickel. 


View attachment 16397

*Figure 4: The back of a chrome-plated nickel silver watch that has been corroded by perspiration.*

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/patientsafety/tips/allergies.html

The above link is from the FDA talking about how you should inform your doctor about the allergy/sensativity. 

http://www.europastar.com/europastar/watch_tech/QIT300.jsp

The above link explains nickel sensitvity in watches in depth.

Since you love your DOXA, the easiest thing to do, is to purchase the Doxa Military Bund Strap. It should help eliminate the problem since only the leather touches your skin. 

John


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2006)

Troy said:


> Has anyone on here had a problem with black marks on their wrists from the steel bracelet? Since the heavy summer hit here, I have been working outside a lot more, and still maintaining a presence in the pool, but my wrist is suffering. I have had problems in the past with skin discolouration from wearing silver, which I no longer do, but never with a stainless steel bracelet on a watch. Any ideas?
> 
> Troy


I get that too on occasion: not with all bracelets though. I know my Eterna SuperKontiki bracelet does it regularly after the second day, and my Hamilton Navy Khaki does as well. Some of the black can usually be found on the bracelet itself, at the edges of links. I noticed this years ago and have had surgical procedures since then with no adverse reaction. --redstart


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## perfectlykevin (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: body chemistry (what about going with a titanium diver)*



John Vargas said:


> Troy,
> 
> You are not having problems because of Stainless Steel Bracelet, or Case. You are having a reaction due the *perspiration, and or water* that is coming in contact with the Stainless Steel and your skin.
> 
> ...


Great info.! Wouldn't switching to a titanium watch solve the problem too? Ti contains no nickel so it shouldn't produce the reaction. I'm a Ti nut, I know but for folks who have a sensitivity to nickel, titanium solves the problem. I'd love to see more Ti watches since when I pass them down to my son he could wear them without the reaction.

Kev


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## obie (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: body chemistry (what about going with a titanium diver)*

Yes Ti wouldn't cause this problem. However when buying a Ti watch, care must be taken to ensure that the entire watch is Ti, including the caseback and deployant or buckles if on a strap.


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## John Vargas (May 30, 2006)

*Re: body chemistry (what about going with a titanium diver)*



obie said:


> Yes Ti wouldn't cause this problem. However when buying a Ti watch, care must be taken to ensure that the entire watch is Ti, including the caseback and deployant or buckles if on a strap.


Hey Kev,

Your statement is true, thank you for bringing it up and mentioning it. I complete forgot, that as an option. In addition, separating the metal from the skin is an option, you can do this by having a leather strap, only the Bund Type will work, and it covers the entire case back. 

Warren is 100% correct in his advice. Make sure that everything is Ti.

Skin discoloration, especially black and rust, also is a common problem. It usually is caused when the metal comes into contact with a substance on the skin, such as certain cosmetics or detergents. The discoloration is easily washed off.

Individuals who are allergic to nickel and want to continue wearing jewelry should consider the following:

Pearls and precious stones do not cause dermatitis Sometimes coating a piece of jewelry with clear nail polish will prevent dermatitis 

White gold almost always has nickel in it

People who suspect they are allergic to nickel should discuss the problem with a dermatologist. If the allergy is confirmed, they might ask the dermatologist about the dimethylglyoxime test kit (*also sold at pharmacies*) that determines the presence of nickel in metals. 

The kit includes a solution that is rubbed on the metal with a cotton swab. If the swab discolors, the metal contains nickel, and should not be worn.

John


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## IanH. (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: body chemistry (what about going with a titanium diver)*



John Vargas said:


> Hey Kev,
> 
> Your statement is true, thank you for bringing it up and mentioning it. I complete forgot, that as an option. In addition, separating the metal from the skin is an option, you can do this by having a leather strap, only the Bund Type will work, and it covers the entire case back.
> 
> ...


Carefrul wilth leather as well. A great many people who have problems with Nickel also have reactions to leather. Much of the leather used is Chromium tanned which can have as adverse a skin reaction as Nickel. Titanium is most likely the best alternative.

IanH.


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## John Vargas (May 30, 2006)

*Re: body chemistry (what about going with a titanium diver)*



IanH. said:


> Carefrul wilth leather as well. A great many people who have problems with Nickel also have reactions to leather. Much of the leather used is Chromium tanned which can have as adverse a skin reaction as Nickel. Titanium is most likely the best alternative.
> 
> IanH.


Hey Ian,

Thanks for the advice. I did not know this. Now, I do. I always have known about the Stainless Steel portion being nickel as well as most metals, however, I did not know that leather processing used chromium to assist in tanning the hide. 

http://www.aad.org/public/Publications/pamphlets/AllergicContactRashes.htm

I checked into possibility of ceramic as some watch companies, are switching to ceramic. That basically leaves you with Rado. Their process includes spraying their watches with a complete Plasma Spray Chromium Oxide Coating, which is heavier in nickel that Stainless Steel. 

However, I did some further research and Ti is not the only option. Gold if less than 12KT will affect anyone with nickel sensitivity. Therefore, you cannot go below 14KT gold, 18KT is optimal. Also, silver is an option. I know Troy stated he could not wear silver, he can if the silver content is above .950 or high sterling&#8230;optimally .999 percent would be the best.

Since leather might affect Troy, and having a DOXA in 18KT is out of the question (*unless you beg them*), you can have the watch silver plated with a thick .999 is an option. I asked my friend who is a jeweler, and he stated that it was possible, and not that expensive. He also stated that there are pens that come in gold, silver, and platinum, that would even be less expensive&#8230;however time consuming as they can literally "paint" all the surfaces that come in contact with your skin. 

John


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## dibetu (Feb 12, 2006)

I work in a tropical climate for ten days every month and that is when I use a natural rubber strap, as the metall bracelet is uncomfortable and turns my skin black. In the hot climate my wrists swell, which pulls the watch tight to my wrist, I sweat much more, sweat equals salt, equals corrosion, even on stainless steel. I thought.
Now forgive my very primitive explanation which seems to be partly wrong. So it is the nickel that causes that! But just one thing: My Rolex, which is made of 904L steel, which contains far higher amounts of nickel than 316L of Doxa and most watches does not cause a greater reaction, I thought it was less severe than any other watch, the worst was my Sinn U2 with the Submarine Steel, which caused alergic reactions in the tropical climate with red open wounds after three days.
Here in Ireland I have no problems at all. 
The loose rubber strap solves all problems in the hot climate.
(One more thing to mention is that if you do not scrub and sanitize your watch daily fungus can cause problems and reations)


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## Tom Connelly (Feb 14, 2006)

I don't know if its a genetic thing, but my wife is 100% ethnic Irish (American though - her parents came from there) and she has the milky white freckly skin and has skin issues with almost everything, but not gold or SS watches, so you are even more sensitive. She has to use Pears glycerin soap, special no dye/perfume laundry detergent, etc or gets skin rashes. She also gets skin rashes from nylon swimsuits and has a reaction to latex. :-S

I have very acidic and corrosive sweat, and the cheaper plated watches eventually wear away and then turn green and stink. I haven't had that problem since switching to "real" SS watches, except in sweaty summer the part which touches the steel will eventually make a nasty odor, but no discoloration or skin irritation, thank heavens.

Ti is probably the best bet for SS sensitive people, if its an option as not all makers make a Ti option.


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## Troy (Feb 10, 2006)

Thank you everyone, for your input on this, after weighing out all of the perspectives and facts shared here, I have decided to throw my DOXA away. Yeah, right.... I guess the first thing I will try is the new rubber strap. I have a Ti ring that I made that I wear that never gives me a problem, and my wedding band is gold, but I don't have a problem with it, either. My wife suggested that maybe my diet would affect the chemistry of my sweat, leading to a change in the 'corrosion'. Please note that my biggest concern was not the condition of my wrist, but moreso of the way that it might be affecting the screw pins of the bracelet. any thoughts about that? Should I expect to have to change the pins every year or so?

Troy Ashcraft


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## perfectlykevin (Feb 16, 2006)

Troy said:


> Thank you everyone, for your input on this, after weighing out all of the perspectives and facts shared here, I have decided to throw my DOXA away. Yeah, right.... I guess the first thing I will try is the new rubber strap. I have a Ti ring that I made that I wear that never gives me a problem, and my wedding band is gold, but I don't have a problem with it, either. My wife suggested that maybe my diet would affect the chemistry of my sweat, leading to a change in the 'corrosion'. Please note that my biggest concern was not the condition of my wrist, but moreso of the way that it might be affecting the screw pins of the bracelet. any thoughts about that? Should I expect to have to change the pins every year or so?
> 
> Troy Ashcraft


I think it's a good idea to replace the spring bars periodically anyway just to be sure they don't fail you and your diver.  I think I'd check with your doctor first on whether it is an allergic reaction or something else. Seems like if it were a reaction to SS then the caseback would cause the same problem too, but a doc would be able to help you make that determination best.

Best of luck and I hope you are able to find a solution that'll help you continue to enjoy your Doxa.

Kev


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## agnius (May 19, 2009)

I had the same issue with my old Seiko 5 SS watch and bracelet - black much on my wrists. Since I switched to Casio SS back watches, and I have not seen it. I wonder what is it that Seiko had that Casio does not?


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## T Bone (Feb 18, 2006)

agnius said:


> I had the same issue with my old Seiko 5 SS watch and bracelet - black much on my wrists. Since I switched to Casio SS back watches, and I have not seen it. I wonder what is it that Seiko had that Casio does not?


Hi, and welcome to the Doxa Forum!

To try to answer your question, I'll have a guess (which is what it is, no more). I'd say the Casio SS is either nickle free, or perhaps has a lower nickle content than the Seiko you had. For more on the Casio, you might want to drop by the G-Shock Forum on Watchuseek, there are some very knowledgeable folks there who I'll bet know about the composition of Casio SS backs.

Either way, Welcome to the Doxa Forum! :-!

Not sure you'll hear a response from any of the respondents above, as the thread is 3 years old oops and most of these folks haven't been seen here in some time. Then again, some may be lurking, or even be notified by email if they've "subscribed" to the thread.


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## Bill Weldon (Feb 26, 2006)

I live in Texas (where the summers get HOT) and do not have nickel allergies. But I do sometimes get the same black marks on my wrist from my stainless steel bracelets when I get sweaty or they are DIRTY! A good washing with soap and water solves the problem. If you are outside and sweat a lot on the bracelet, you may simply be accumulating dirt and crud on the bracelet. See if giving it a good cleaning solves your problem.

Bill


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## siddhartha (Feb 15, 2006)

Two things to consider:

Often enough, that black stuff is simply crud from the bracelet links becoming liberated from the nooks and crannies, mixing with sweat, and causing the marks. This has happened to me, and a wash with soap/water, and a toothbrush solved the problem.

Also, i had a friend with a true nickel allergy-he painted the inside surfaces of his steel dive watches with clear nail polish, in a few coats, which kept it out of direct contact with his skin.

I wondered if this might have also been the case with the actual Dirk Pitt professional, the one worn by Matthew in the movie-it had the foam "ring" around the inside of the bracelet-could have been due to a nickel allergy, or more likely just to make the watch stay in place for filming

Chris


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