# Pam 318 Movement: Keep or Replace?



## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

I own a PAM 318 "Brooklyn Bridge" Special Edition. Guess it was more "Special" than I originally thought (Paneristi Public Forum: The mysterious PAM318). By all accounts it runs fine, but given the pictures I have seen of/on the unfinished Unitas movement (the mysterious one-off OP XXIX) I am not so sure about longevity. Per the internet i understand that Panerai has offered to replace the movement with one they actually feel proud enough to show the finish on - the OP II. I don't know any details about the process other than I pay shipping to them and they replace it. Anyone's thoughts on if I should keep current movement or get the OP II replacement?


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## Stone Creek Straps (Aug 20, 2008)

I would have the movement replaced if it were me. It could always be returned to an original state with an unfinished ETA very inexpensively if one so desired. I think it is a shame that they got themselves into this situation to begin with. I just saw a clients new PAM 368 and the factory supplied straps are, to be nice, not worthy of such a nice piece (not any watch really). A couple of unfortunate fumbles from a company that I feel usually offers solid attention to detail.


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## OceanView (Jun 5, 2010)

I would keep it.
It may be one of those odd watches that may be worth more in the long run.
Remember the off white Rolex Explorer II ?


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## mene_menelaou (Nov 28, 2008)

I'd have it replaced


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## stevend101 (Oct 19, 2011)

I'd have it replaced.

I would rather enjoy the watch knowing it had something impressive under the hood rather than put up with a mistake in the forlorn hope that when you come to sell it it may be more desirable. I buy a watch for the now, hence the reason none of my watches still have any protective film/stickers etc.


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks for the great comments. So far its split about 50/50 between people suggesting i replace it or fix it (on and off the forum). Ironically i think its the best engraved piece they have done in awhile - which of course is overshadowed by the movement controversy.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

I am astounded--you own_ two dozen_ (!?) Panerais, and you are asking _our _advice about what to do regarding one of them?--boggles the imagination. Definitely replace the inferior movement with the superior one. Can't imagine anyone coveting the 318 boutique with the 'original' movement anytime in the near future (course I can't imagine anyone hoarding more than 30 high end watches either...)

Peter


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## craniotes (Jul 29, 2006)

The so-called OP XXIX is an affront to every Panerai owner in existence. Basically this whole episode shows the contempt that Saint Bonati holds his customers in, and if the 372 weren't so damn beautiful (and I weren't so damn weak) I'd smash mine into a million pieces to show the arrogant bastid how I feel about his little bait and switch.

Anyway, barring selling your 318 outright, I'd definitly have that POS movement replaced. As was pointed out earlier, if you want to have it returned to "original condition", just buy an off-the-rack 6497 from Offrei; it's not as if these craptastic, unfinished and unadjusted movements are marked or numbered in any appreciable fashion, so the sucker you eventually sell it to will be none the wiser. I'd also insist that they pay for shipping and insurance (see, they're still sticking it to you).

Regards,
Adam


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## primerak (Sep 1, 2010)

If you have to question replace or sell as it doesn't look like it would make much of a dent in yr collection anyways.


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## avatar1 (Sep 15, 2008)

Keep it. Don't let them remove the evidence of their greedy screw-up. b-)

No, honestly - I believe a movement swap will be seen as "tampering" by many collectors, who go for original conditions.


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## triplekia (Dec 11, 2010)

I'd keep it as it is so when you look back 50 years from now, that 318 will serve as a reminder of how greedy a brand could be.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

avatar1 said:


> ...No, honestly - I believe a movement swap will be seen as "tampering" by many collectors, who go for original conditions.


I don't buy the logic here--pride of ownership should go first, and if you don't like the way it came, improve it so that it suits you--thinking about what others will think if you move it along puts those other folks' priorities over your own, and honestly, while some purists may prefer the original plain (hideous) movement version, I think "many" (if not most) collectors would prefer the better movement.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

If it was my watch, I'd swap it out, no question.


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## avatar1 (Sep 15, 2008)

timefleas said:


> I don't buy the logic here--pride of ownership should go first, and if you don't like the way it came, improve it so that it suits you--thinking about what others will think if you move it along puts those other folks' priorities over your own, and honestly, while some purists may prefer the original plain (hideous) movement version, I think "many" (if not most) collectors would prefer the better movement.


If you take a look at the Rolex collectors' market for example you'd be amazed by the irrationalities there... the "spider dial", e.g., and that any changes to the faulty parts diminish value.

Time will tell.


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

Without a doubt, change it.

Swap out a $130 movement for a $1000+ movement........you really need to ask?

If you ever wanted to restore the 318 to its "rip-off / joke / embarrassment" original state, simply sell the replaced quality movement for say $800, hunt down the crappiest quality ETA for about a $100 and send the rest to me, lets call it my consultancy fee.


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## J.Prime (Oct 21, 2009)

Panerai really lost some credibility with this move. People who aren't Panerai fans can't understand why a simple 6497, manual wind watch cost so much in the first place, this just gave those opinions a lot of truth!! I also think of this as a pretty hilarious fluke!! I'd keep it. It is definitely possible that this will be worth more in the future, perhaps as an 'error' would be on any other collectible.


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

avatar1 said:


> If you take a look at the Rolex collectors' market for example you'd be amazed by the irrationalities there... the "spider dial", e.g., and that any changes to the faulty parts diminish value.
> 
> Time will tell.


Whilst I agree with you I do not think it applies here.

When those "parts" or part is a standard, off the shelf low quality and available to anyone item with no individual markings or ties to Panerai, no serial range, nothing at all to distingush it from any other crappy low quality 6497.


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

jaytaylor said:


> Without a doubt, change it.
> 
> Swap out a $130 movement for a $1000+ movement........you really need to ask?
> 
> If you ever wanted to restore the 318 to its "rip-off / joke / embarrassment" original state, simply sell the replaced quality movement for say $800, hunt down the crappiest quality ETA for about a $100 and send the rest to me, lets call it my consultancy fee.


$1,000????? What did I miss? You could buy 5 of those movememts for $1,000....


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

J-Prime said:


> People who aren't Panerai fans can't understand why a simple 6497, manual wind watch cost so much in the first place


What Panerai put into (318 aside) its historical range is hardly a simple 6497.

Take the highest grade ETA 6497, send it through a SOPROD makeover, custom bridges later it is a much higher quality movement. Lets not forget you are also buying the whole package, a unique and original design and style.


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

Watch_guy said:


> $1,000????? What did I miss? You could buy 5 of those movememts for $1,000....


Really? please post your sources.

I highly doubt you can find a new OP XI calibre for much less than $1000.


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## subrosa (Dec 2, 2008)

While I would accept this movement in my Hamilton Khaki Mech (I think it is that exact unfinished movement), I paid 350 dollars for it. 

That story is quite interesting! I am shocked that this somehow got approved by the top-brass at the company. Somewhere in the company someone decided to do this, and a group of people went along with it. 

I would get it replaced, and have them take some photos of the newly installed movement. I would also ask for an explanation as to why this happened, as it calls a lot into question.


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## J.Prime (Oct 21, 2009)

jaytaylor said:


> What Panerai put into (318 aside) its historical range is hardly a simple 6497.
> 
> Take the highest grade ETA 6497, send it through a SOPROD makeover, custom bridges later it is a much higher quality movement. Lets not forget you are also buying the whole package, a unique and original design and style.


I won't argue that, I'm a big Panerai fan. I'm merely highlighting a point I've heard. An ETA6497 and a fully customized and upgraded movement are very different, however, the 318 got a base movement, not even printed with 'PANERAI'.


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

jaytaylor said:


> Really? please post your sources.
> 
> I highly doubt you can find a new OP XI calibre for much less than $1000.


The real question is , what is your source that these cost $1,000??? 
I dont need a "source" to know that a 6497 with blued screws cost around $150... There are nowhere close to $850 in modifications unless they coated it in diamond dust :-d
Panerai wont sell a movement, they will only replace one in a watch, but the difference between the original movement and the XI is not much in dollars and centz. 
I am not justifying what they did, or saying that the movement is cheap. I just like to clarify when people start talking about "highly modified" ETA movements, when in reality you can purchase these upgrades straight from the catalog, aside from having the name Panerai engraved.
I love the basic Panerai models, but I certainly dont buy them for the value of the movement.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

An interesting if uneven thread. Certainly a few things are clear; the movement in the 318 is an embarrassment to both Panerai, and to the majority of 318 owners. Some folks here have chimed in that this embarrassment may be worth money down the road, as an odd reminder of an even odder Panerai blunder. However, I think most people buy Panerais to enjoy now, and enjoy them for the value they perceive them to have, rather than investing in a lemon with the hopes that it may appreciate in value at some distant point in time--I think this is logic drivien by rationalization, rather than practicality. Again, I suggest that if the owner is serious about watches, and buys them to wear, right now in the present time, and perhaps to grow old with them, then of course switch the movement out.


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## stilo (Aug 11, 2009)

timefleas said:


> I am astounded--you own_ two dozen_ (!?) Panerais, and you are asking _our _advice about what to do regarding one of them?--boggles the imagination. Definitely replace the inferior movement with the superior one. Can't imagine anyone coveting the 318 boutique with the 'original' movement anytime in the near future (course I can't imagine anyone hoarding more than 30 high end watches either...)
> 
> Peter


Ive been thinking the se exact things. I'd love to see pics of the OP's vast collection.


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## swo (Jan 14, 2012)

jaytaylor said:


> Really? please post your sources.
> 
> I highly doubt you can find a new OP XI calibre for much less than $1000.


Agreed! No way for $200 a piece, not even close.


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## swo (Jan 14, 2012)

I'd keep it the way it is!!! Maybe not, mixed feelings for sure.


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

swo said:


> Agreed! No way for $200 a piece, not even close.


Wrong...look at the catalog.. A 6497 with blued screws, incabloc, and the exact same custom bridges that panerai uses is under $200.. 
Why is that hard to believe? It is a stock movement.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

Panerai uses the 6497-2 movement, not the 6497-1. Higher beat-rate and longer PR than the 6497-1. They are NOT sold as eubauches, so far as I know. So unless you own a watch company, your only option is to buy a watch WITH a 6497-2 and take the movement out. 

The $200 6497-1s from Ofrei or CousinsUK aren't the same movement.


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

I am getting the movement replaced. I agree (mostly) with Timefleas in that i buy these watches to wear and I like the entirety of the "package" - 3rd party movements and all - but this 318 movement fiasco goes below even my modest threshold of integrity from a watch company. Let’s face it you can buy a LOT more movement, sophistication, history and the sort with other brands for the same price - but that doesn’t diminish my love and passion for these watches. Hopefully they won’t try this stunt again in the near future.


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

handwound said:


> Panerai uses the 6497-2 movement, not the 6497-1. Higher beat-rate and longer PR than the 6497-1. They are NOT sold as eubauches, so far as I know. So unless you own a watch company, your only option is to buy a watch WITH a 6497-2 and take the movement out.
> 
> The $200 6497-1s from Ofrei or CousinsUK aren't the same movement.


Thanks....what is your guess at cost? I am sure its closer to 200 than 1,000


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## avers (Feb 25, 2010)

I would get rid of the watch rather than swap the movements.

You are not happy with it... and replacing the movement will alter the way the watch was originally designed. So either leave it the way it is or sell the sucker.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

Watch_guy said:


> Thanks....what is your guess at cost? I am sure its closer to 200 than 1,000


With the volume that Panerai buys, I'm certain you are correct.

At the end of the day, it's all pointless - how much do we think the Rolex 3135 actually costs Rolex to make? It's simply easier to justify the overall price when it's an "in-house" movement, because we'll never really know the actual costs involved.


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## Leadwolf (Oct 31, 2009)

All, I sent the watch over to Panerai New York and they replaced the movement. It took about couple of weeks to receive the watch back. I order te polish service ($85) with very good results. At this point I cannot confirm the movement number but, Panerai included a COSC certificate when I received the watch. More to follow.


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## galavanter (Nov 25, 2010)

Ya think Leadwolf pushed New York too hard? I hear they wanted this 318 thing to go away. We ain’t heard nothin’ fromim.


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