# Review of The Citizen AQ1000-58E - Part 1



## South Pender

A couple of weeks ago, I received _The Citizen_, Model AQ1000-58E, the new "eco-drive" (light-cell replenished battery) version of the quartz _The Citizen_. Since many HEQ forumers are already familiar with its predecessor, the Citizen Chronomaster (and since I have one, CTQ57-0955), it seemed like a good idea to review the newer model beside the older one. This review will be, in some ways, a little superficial since I lack the intestinal fortitude to unscrew the back and look at the movement. I guess until that is done, we won't know whether the newer Citizen A010 movement is little more than an A660 adapted for a light-replenished battery or something completely different. I'll start the review with some pictures, for the quality of which I must apologize. I had a friend take them with my help, but neither of us is exactly photography-savvy. I realize that they're awkwardly-spaced, but have been unable to tidy them up. In each picture, the AQ1000-58E is on the left and the older Chronomaster CTQ57-0955 on the right. As an additional resource, the manual for this new watch can be found at:

http://www.citizenwatch.jp/support/pdf/a010/e.pdf






At this point, there are two other models using this new A010 movement, AQ1000-58A (champagne dial) and AQ1000-58B (silver dial). Current MSRP is 210,000 JPY. Bargains are available, with 160,000 JPY being offered by some suppliers. These prices are significantly lower than those of the Chronomaster series. For example, the closest Chronomaster, CTQ57-1202 has a MSRP of 262,500 JPY (25% higher than AQ1000-58E). Like AQ1000-58E, this black-dial Chronomaster has a stainless steel (SS) case and bracelet and is thus is less expensive than the titanium Chronomaster models. This all suggests some cost-cutting steps in the materials and manufacture of AQ1000-58-series models (appearing in aesthetic differences), and these will be identified later in this review. As an aside, Citizen appears to have followed Seiko with the latter's introduction a couple of years ago now of their less-expensive Grand Seiko quartz models, designed for the international market-SBGX059, 061, 063 and 065. These latter Seikos (at exactly the same MSRP as the new The Citizens) represent lesser quality than those GS quartz models of the past, with the differences being largely aesthetic.

First, Citizen has carried on the truly-excellent 10-year warranty with these new models. In addition (also in line, I think, with the Chronomasters), Citizen offers two inspections and timing adjustments, free of charge, during the first 10 years of ownership, the first in the second year of use, the last in the eighth. The specified accuracy is the same as that of the Chronomaster, within ± 5 seconds per year (s/y). Interestingly, the manual states: "To maintain this timekeeping accuracy, you must use the watch at ambient temperature (between +5°C and +40°C) and *carry it with you approximately 12 hours a day*." (Boldface mine.) I suppose we might assume that Citizen means to *wear* the watch approximately 12 hours a day.

No real technical information is found in the manual under "Specifications" (at least that I could find), including the quartz oscillator frequency. Thus, whether this new movement may employ some variant of the 3-prong Bulova Precisionist crystal (Bulova being owned by Citizen), the more common 32 kHz oscillator, or something completely different (like a high-frequency tuning-fork crystal) is, at the moment, unknown.

The new AQ1000 models are stainless steel; no titanium models with the A010 movement have yet appeared. In the Citizen advertisement for the new models, they note that the watch has "white coating." Although we can't be sure of this, it would seem to suggest something like Citizen's _Duratect_. The watch has a WR of 10BAR and a _non_-screw-down crown (as is true also for CTQ57-0955). The crystal is double (inside and out) AR coated sapphire. The dimensions are very close to those of the earlier Chronomasters:

Case Diameter: AQ1000-58E: 37.3 mm. (by my Vernier caliper); CTQ57-0955: 37.8 mm.

Case Thickness: AQ1000-58E: 10.4 mm; CTQ57-0955: 9.9 mm.

Lug-to-Lug Length: AQ1000-58E: 44.8 mm.; CTQ57-0955: 44.6 mm.

Lug Opening: AQ1000-58E: 19 mm.; CTQ57-0955: 20 mm.

Weight: AQ1000-58E: 124 g.; Equivalent SS CTQ57-1202: 117 g.

I should add, in connection with case diameters that, in the flesh (metal?), AQ1000-58E looks a little smaller, a fact lost in the pictures where they were photographed separately and then combined via Photoshop. Thus, Picture 1 gives an inaccurate impression of their relative perceived size. AQ1000-58E has a crystal diameter of 30.5 mm., whereas CTQ57-0955 has a crystal diameter of 31.9 mm. Given the very-similar case diameters, this occurs because of the much more-steeply angled bezel on CTQ57-0955 than on AQ1000-58E. This is clear from Picture 3. Thus, from above, the dial appears larger on CTQ57-0955.

As with the Chronomasters, AQ1000-58E has a perpetual calendar and an independently-adjustable hour hand. The latter makes time changes dead-easy. These features are definitely improvements over the Seiko 9F series of top-quality quartz movements.

Overall, I'd say that aesthetically, AQ1000-58E falls a little short of CTQ57-0955. Some of this will be apparent from the pictures, but, given their generally poor quality, some will be missed, and I'll elaborate on those features. The case of AQ1000-58E is very-nicely finished, with a mirror polish-same as CTQ57-0955. There is very-slightly greater complexity to the AQ1000-58E case, in that it incorporates an additional bevel on the side-between the top of the lugs and the sides. This should be apparent from Pictures 2 and 3 above. This is a pleasing touch. The new model (like the older one) has a flat crystal that is just very-slightly raised above the bezel (Picture 3).

Both dials are black, but they throw off a slightly different effect. That on CTQ57-0955 is a deeper jet-black, whereas that on AQ1000-58E gives off something of a sunburst vibe in certain lights (despite the fact that the crystal is double AR-coated) and appears slightly less-dark. On both, the hour markers are deep nicely-beveled, -faceted, and -contoured pieces applied to the dial. However, they are wider (and have accompanying lume) on CTQ57-0955. With respect to the minute markers, these are clearly applied fine, polished slivers of metal in CTQ57-0955. With AQ1000-58E, however, I just can't be sure how these markers are formed; they do have a little depth (suggesting that they may not be printed), but may be painted on with a thick metallic substance. This is one area where we see cost savings on the newer models. Examination of the date frame shows a nicely-polished one on CTQ57-0955, but one with machining striations on AQ1000-58E-again lower quality. In connection with the date presentation, I prefer the white-on-black appearance on AQ1000-58E to the black-on-white found with CTQ57-0955, as it provides better consistency with the overall dial appearance.

The hands on both are Dauphin style, but much wider (and with lume) in CTQ57-0955 than in AQ1000-58E. The narrow hour and minutes hands on AQ1000-58E present my aging eyes with some perception difficulties in low-light conditions. In my mind at least, this would have to be seen as a real disadvantage for AQ1000-58E. Although I wasn't really pleased to see the charge indicator on the AQ1000-58E dial when I saw the first pictures last spring, I must say that it isn't much of a distraction once one gets used to it. My AQ1000-58E specimen arrived fully-charged, and in the two weeks of wearing-with long-sleeve shirts and sweaters-it has remained fully-charged.

Picture 4 shows the bracelets. On both, pins, as opposed to screws, are used, and there are no micro-adjustments in the clasp. However, it's easy to see that the bracelet on CTQ57-0955 (and also on the SS CTQ57-1202) is more finely-detailed, with more links, and alternating polished and brushed effect. That on AQ1000-58E lacks these refinements, and this undoubtedly contributes to the lower cost of the latter watch. This is exactly what Seiko did with their bracelets for SBGX059-065 when lowering GS quartz costs. The bracelet on AQ1000-58E is OK, I guess, but not as nice (to my eye) as that on CTQ57-0955.

Overall, then, I see AQ1000-58E as slightly inferior aesthetically to the Chronomasters. Still, the level of fit and finish is high, and the general appearance and sparkle are impressive. As I've opined before on this forum, I really don't see any non-negligible aesthetic differences between the Chronomasters and the GS quartz models. If I could compare this newer The Citizen with one of the more recent, lower-cost, international GS quartzes, I suspect that I wouldn't detect any real aesthetic differences between the two either.

In favor of the new AQ1000-58-series The Citizens, the light-cell feature is a real step forward, in my opinion. Not having to remember when to arrange for battery replacement appeals to me, although, as others have pointed out, having a watch like this serviced occasionally is never a bad idea. I think that, in my case (if I keep the watch), I will send it back for the free servicings even though it won't need a battery change.

Of course, the feature that members of this forum are, by far, most interested in is the time-keeping quality of this new model. At this point, I've had the watch for far too short a time to comment on this. I began a timing test (getting an accurate baseline) last weekend and will report results once they become available in a sort of Part 2 of this review. It will be hard for my AQ1000-58E model to beat my CTQ57-0955. I reported on the latter a couple of years ago now, and it was well within the ± 5 s/y standard-more like + 2 s/y (although only when worn).

I'm encouraged by Citizen's efforts to upgrade their best quartz movements and wish Seiko would follow suit. The A660 movement has been with us since 1995, and now we have a newer development. The Seiko 9F series has been with us since 1993, and no improvements have appeared since then.

I guess I see (or perhaps only hope to see!) AQ1000-58E (and -58A and -58B) as the beginning of a new series of really top-notch light-cell HEQ watches from Citizen. We will, I'm sure, see titanium models before too long, and, I would imagine, other enhancements.

I'll try to answer any questions any of you might have.


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## eurocopter

Very well written, thank you for the review and pictures.
I'd like to note that at the moment there are two additional models using A010.

AQ1010-54E and AQ1010-54A


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## artec

Thank you for that review, South Pender, and for the work it involved. I've got one coming from Katsu-san soon so your description and photos are of particular interest to me. I really miss the lume! I hope you're right and that we shall see a titanium version soon. I agree that the Chronomaster has an edge in terms of aesthetics, and actually I think I like the simpler curved sides on the Chronomaster case to the extra facet you mention. A matter of personal preference of course. Does the seconds hand line up with the minute markers any better on the new model than on the Chronomaster?
I was going to add the 1010 models but eurocopter beat me to it. Interesting that the 1010 bracelet is more complex and the hands quite different, wider but stil no lume. It's also a good chunk more expensive, too. It's difficult to tell, with only one photo of each of the 1010 models, whether the bezel is as flat as it is on the 1000 models. It appears that the dial on the white 1010 is textured but I can't tell if the black one is. I don't see that the 1010 is worth the extra money, myself, but again, personal preference. 
Now we're stuck with the awkward "The Citizen" name again!


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## South Pender

Eurocopter and artec: thanks for the information about AQ1010; I had no idea that Citizen had produced anything newer with the A010 movement. And, now having seen AQ1010-54E, I must say I like it a lot better than AQ1000-58E! The wider hands will eliminate the difficulties in reading the time on the AQ1000-58E in certain conditions, and the bracelet is a lot nicer. It's the same price as CTQ57-1202, noted in my review, and has the same features as 1202. Is its dial black or dark blue? It's hard to tell from the picture.

I did forget, artec, to comment on the alignment of the seconds hand with the minute markers on AQ1000-58E. I did check this pretty carefully and was not very impressed. It is probably the equal of the earlier Chronomasters in this regard, but is off the marker by maybe 10%-20% of the inter-marker space at certain places. As with most watches, I suspect that it depends, to some extent, on the particular position in which the watch is held. This is one area in which I think the Seiko 9F models have a small edge (although they're not perfect either). I'm always amused when I read that a particular quartz watch is described as having its seconds hand hitting all the minute markers dead-on (as we often see reported). If you look with the naked eye at the closeness of the seconds hand to the markers, it may seem as though the hand is, indeed, hitting them dead center. However, this delightful illusion disappears into thin air when you put a 10X loupe to the dial. What seemed like good alignment can look just awful as you see the seconds hand and minute markers greatly enlarged!


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## eurocopter

South Pender said:


> Is its dial black or dark blue? It's hard to tell from the picture.


I believe the dial is black on the 54E, although probably appears more dark gray as it is perhaps impossible to achieve deep black color on translucent dial.


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## petew

Really enjoyed the writeup. I've been surprised that it's taken so long for someone here to have purchased that watch. I myself have come close a few times. Keep us posted in the future about the timekeeping and thanks for taking the time to put that together.


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## dicioccio

What a nice review: many thanks South ! And also thanks for eurocopter for the informations about the AQ1010-54E that I like much more. What a pity for the lume but it's the same choice done by Seiko... Would you please to write the MSRP of the 2 1000 and the 1010 ?


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## Catalin

*Nice watch and nice review!*

Nice watch and nice review!

The black on solar models is difficult to get to the same 'depth' as in non-solar models - since there are the special cells involved ;-) (and on the titanium E510 the radial reflections are so much part of the aesthetic design that I nicknamed mine 'Shinyella').

How are the mechanical parts involved - I would assume that the minutes and the hours hands are geared together and the seconds hand is independent ? Does the date go in both ways ? And what is with the power-reserve hand - how many positions does that have ? Is there a hands-alignment procedure ?


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## South Pender

dicioccio said:


> What a nice review: many thanks South ! And also thanks for eurocopter for the informations about the AQ1010-54E that I like much more. What a pity for the lume but it's the same choice done by Seiko... Would you please to write the MSRP of the 2 1000 and the 1010 ?


The various AQ1000 models (-58A, -58B, and -58E have a MSRP of 210,000 JPY, and are selling for more like 160,000 JPY. The AQ1010 models have a MSRP of 262,500 JPY, and would, I imagine, be selling at the lowest-price places for something on the order of 200,000 JPY.


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## South Pender

*Re: Nice watch and nice review!*



Catalin said:


> Nice watch and nice review!
> 
> The black on solar models is difficult to get to the same 'depth' as in non-solar models - since there are the special cells involved ;-) (and on the titanium E510 the radial reflections are so much part of the aesthetic design that I nicknamed mine 'Shinyella').
> 
> How are the mechanical parts involved - I would assume that the minutes and the hours hands are geared together and the seconds hand is independent ? Does the date go in both ways ? And what is with the power-reserve hand - how many positions does that have ? Is there a hands-alignment procedure ?


Good point about the effects of the "solar cell" on the dial appearance. "Radial reflections" expresses it perfectly.

As for the mechanical aspects, let me refer you to pp. 71-83 of the manual (link given in review). If I'm reading this manual material correctly, I would say that the minute and hour hands are geared together, with the seconds hand independent. You can adjust the hour hand (for DST or time-zone changes) without interrupting the operation of the watch. You could, I guess, say that the date does go both ways, but the date adjustment is sync'd with the hour hand (I guess because the perp calendar makes large date changes unnecessary). Changing the date would involve changes to the hour hand, until the date turned over, and I think that this could probably go both ways. As for the power-reserve marker, it would appear to have continuous range, rather than discrete steps, although I'm not 100% certain of that because on mine, it has hardly moved. Finally, as for hands-alignment, there is a procedure to determine whether the hands are in proper alignment, but, as far as I can tell, no way to make adjustments. Under "Checking the reference position" on p. 80, it describes how to check that all hands are in "reference position," but, if one or more is off, the owner is told that "a repair is needed" (although if it is the minute hand, this may be fixed via a readjustment of the time).


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## Catalin

*Re: Nice watch and nice review!*



South Pender said:


> Good point about the effects of the "solar cell" on the dial appearance. "Radial reflections" expresses it perfectly.
> 
> As for the mechanical aspects, let me refer you to pp. 71-83 of the manual (link given in review).
> ...


Hmm, the manual has some very strange quircks - probably from the translation.

For instance on page 71 it is saying:

"For more accurate adjustment, first put the minute hand forward by four to five minutes and then return it to the correct time. Accurately align the minute hand with the minute marker."

Isn't the caliber still 'fly by wire' - meaning that the minute is not directly moved mechanically but instead is moved by a stepper in precise (and aligned) steps ??? Since the procedure described makes sense for a non-fly-by-wire but makes absolutely no sense for a fly-by-wire !

(the problem that I see with that is that testing can only be done with the crown in position 2, so timing will be lost :-()

Also the picture on page 78 is showing the hour-hand moving alone - is that the case, or the minutes-hand is also doing a full rotation ? (that should be easy to test since accuracy should not be affected with crown on first position).


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## South Pender

*Re: Nice watch and nice review!*



Catalin said:


> "For more accurate adjustment, first put the minute hand forward by four to five minutes and then return it to the correct time. Accurately align the minute hand with the minute marker."
> 
> Isn't the caliber still 'fly by wire' - meaning that the minute is not directly moved mechanically but instead is moved by a stepper in precise (and aligned) steps ??? Since the procedure described makes sense for a non-fly-by-wire but makes absolutely no sense for a fly-by-wire !


I don't believe that Citizen caliber A010 is fly-by-wire (and neither was A660). The recommendation to move the minute hand 4-5 minutes ahead of where you actually want it, and then work back to the desired position is frequently made by Citizen and other watch companies. This is done when you are setting the watch to sync with a reference clock and helps to guarantee that once you start the watch up (you have stopped everything before this), with the minute hand sitting exactly where you want it, it will continue to hit the minute markers dead-on. Failing to do this sometimes results in the minute hand being a little off subsequent minute markers once started up.


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## b_royal

*Re: Nice watch and nice review!*

A really great and informative review, thanks SP.

I actually prefer the bracelet on the newer model as I find polished sections hard to live with. The hands though, I agree, would be more legible if larger.

And what fantastic movements on both to have such high accuracy and the user-friendly additions of an independently adjustable hour hand / pc.


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## Shadrash

Fantastic review. I've been trying to decide between one of these and the international market GS Quartz...

There is a picture of the movement here:

http://citizen.jp/the-citizen/story/eco.html

Looks to have have nicer finish than the A660, but hard to tell from the pic...


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## dicioccio

The description of the movements suggests a good step forward from the previous A660 and the increased numbers of jewels suggests also a more durable watch. They also claim an automatic self-adjustment of the hands in case of shock.

About the case, I prefer the old layout. The AQ1010 has a nicer bracelet and a slightly different dial but the price difference from the AQ1000 is, in my opinion, too much !


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## South Pender

Shadrash, good find. I hadn't seen that ad for The Citizen. When I opened it, I found it was in Japanese, so found an English-language version:

Eco-Drive Models

Then, if you click on the following link, you'll see more about this watch, along with far, far better pictures than I could provide.

Eco-driving accuracy of ± 5 seconds between model years

The Geneva stripes on the movement plate are a nice touch!

Dicioccio, the number of jewels is evidently 30, or as they put it in the ad, "a whopping 30 stones." This is really unusual (truly "whopping"!) for a quartz movement (with next to no complications), and even the Chronomasters had 17, which also was way above the norm. For comparative purposes, the Seiko 9F movements have 9 jewels. Perhaps the perpetual calender and independently-adjustable hour hand require an extra jewel or two, but still...30 jewels; that's more than most automatics have. Hard to see the need....


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## everose

Thank you for such an enjoyable and thoughtfully constructed review.

From the links within this thread it is clear that the new A010 mvt is TC and so i would guess it is unlikely that the high frequency route taken by Precisionist has also been employed.

Citizen also state that they have found a way to minimise the impact of voltage variations on the accuracy level as the PR is depleted.I found that aspect very interesting,but unfortunately they do not seem to expand on that information further.
I think i also read on The Citizen jp site that they do not guarantee the +/-5spy accuracy when the PR is low.Which also sounds perfectly reasonable to me.


I prefer the look and finishing of the two recently added AQ1010 eco-drive models.They perhaps seem to have a better "fit" with the A660 versions.
The diameter of the AQ1010 models is stated at 36mm,(0.5mm smaller) and thicker,(11.8mm v 10.5mm) and also a little lighter vis-a-vis AQ1000 eco-drive models.



Re-Seiko 9F has had no improvements since its introduction in 1993.
Don't forget that some of the recent Anniversary models do have the improved +/-5spy accuracy level.



BTW i like the new and (appropriately for this forum!) more accurate forum name.


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## ingmar

Thanks for the full review on this relatively new watch.

There are two things that I wonder & maybe you can shed some light (-no pun intended- & one is purely aesthetic):

1 - What do you think of the power reserve? I'm concerned about the overall balance of the dial. I don't like them on mechanical watches in most cases & find it to be a gimmick on anything but a manual wind.
2 - Some believe that the battery powering the reserve wears out just like another other battery (or like a rechargeable AA). Do you think this will make it in need of servicing just as frequent as the A660 counterpart?

Thanks again. I recently purchased my second Chronomaster, having sold a cream dial & plan to enjoy it as a weekend wearer since it won't be dead by Friday afternoon each week.


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## South Pender

ingmar said:


> Thanks for the full review on this relatively new watch.
> 
> There are two things that I wonder & maybe you can shed some light (-no pun intended- & one is purely aesthetic):
> 
> 1 - What do you think of the power reserve? I'm concerned about the overall balance of the dial. I don't like them on mechanical watches in most cases & find it to be a gimmick on anything but a manual wind.
> 2 - Some believe that the battery powering the reserve wears out just like another other battery (or like a rechargeable AA). Do you think this will make it in need of servicing just as frequent as the A660 counterpart?
> 
> Thanks again. I recently purchased my second Chronomaster, having sold a cream dial & plan to enjoy it as a weekend wearer since it won't be dead by Friday afternoon each week.


As for 1, I was put off by the power reserve indicator at first, seeing it in pictures. However, since getting the watch and wearing it for nearly seven weeks now, I must say that it really doesn't bother me (it is pretty small), and I like knowing that these days when I'm wearing long-sleeve shirts and sweaters inside, the power is not being depleted. I would want to know if this were occurring, at which time I'd put it under some direct light.

As for 2, I'm not sure what you mean by the "battery powering the reserve," but my understanding of how this works is that a light cell produces electricity that keeps the rechargeable battery charged. This means that this rechargeable battery will _not_ run down like a standard battery, but will be replenished as it begins to lose juice. There has been some speculation about just how long such light-cell replenished batteries will actually last, and no one expects them to last forever (as the makers would have us believe). The consensus (if I'm reading this correctly) seems to be that the system as a whole might last 12-15 years without any intervention, at which time probably both the light cell and rechargeable battery will need replacing. However, this figure has not been confirmed by solid empirical evidence. In my opinion, though, it is safe to say that the need for servicing in the newer light-powered ("eco-drive") The Citizens will be far, far less frequent than with the A660-fitted models (which feature a 5-year battery life).


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## Catalin

South Pender said:


> ...
> The consensus (if I'm reading this correctly) seems to be that the system as a whole might last 12-15 years without any intervention, at which time probably both the light cell and rechargeable battery will need replacing. However, this figure has not been confirmed by solid empirical evidence. In my opinion, though, it is safe to say that the need for servicing in the newer light-powered ("eco-drive") The Citizens will be far, far less frequent than with the A660-fitted models (which feature a 5-year battery life).


I tend to expect close to 20 years for over 90% of the MT920 rechargeable batteries IF EXPOSED TO SOME LIGHT EVERY DAY (as Citizen is anyway recommending). I would also not be surprised with close to 50 years for the solar cells - and possibly even more ;-)


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## artec

I have an AQ1000-58E as well. For the first few days and weeks the fuel gauge was a constant annoyance. It seemed really obtrusive. Now, after about 5 weeks, it's not "visible" or obtrusive when i look at the time, only when I look at the watch. I agree with South Pender that it's nice to be reassured that there's plenty of reserve, but I can think of several ways in which that could be conveyed much more subtly. If one wears the watch with any kind of regularity, or if one keeps it out in the open when it's not being worn, the needle never moves and the gauge seems completely unnecessary. But of course not everyone follows such a wearing pattern. If it slept in a drawer for weeks at a time, the gauge could be very useful. On the whole, though, I would prefer a different, less obvious indicator.


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## dicioccio

I think the gauge was put more for aesthetic purposes rather than for some utility. In fact almost all the Eco Drive don't have that gauge. Moreover the watch put itself in a standby mode (stopping the second hand) that saves much power.

Therefore, and following what is written in the instuctions, there are several months before the watch completely stops. So the only chance to do that is something like forgetting the watch in a box for a long time...

So in the end, while praising Citizen for the new caliber, I didn't understand the reason for the fuel gauge while it could be added some more useful complication like the day of the week or even the name of the month. In fact these are informations already calculated by the movement (because of its perpetual calendar) and could have generate a more various collection with new cool and a bit more complicated dials.


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## donoharm

Thanks for the great review. It's so well written!

i'm also not a fan of the gauge. They could easily convey the message by having the second hand move once every two seconds... Or if there is some engineer somewhere that insists on having a silly gague like that, at least make it somewhat symmetric.


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## ronalddheld

Perhaps the gauge is these to appeal to some mechanical aesthetic sense?


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## Catalin

ronalddheld said:


> Perhaps the gauge is these to appeal to some mechanical aesthetic sense?


Or some "gauge envy" related to the Springdrive models from Seiko :-d


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## ronalddheld

Maybe that is the case, Catalin.


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## dicioccio

Probably Catalin, but in the Spring Drive it makes sense a lot since the reserve is 72 hours while in this case we're talking about at least 6 months, that is more that 6 times more !!! ^_^


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## ingmar

Maybe Citizen is listening and will drop that from future models. With The Citizen line expanding into mechanical watches they're playing both segments. That said, I love the turned lugs. Love them on my Omegas and love them on The Citizen.

Its just a great watch. Thanks again for the review.



ronalddheld said:


> Perhaps the gauge is these to appeal to some mechanical aesthetic sense?


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## john9

It appears from reading the manual that the 10 year warrant is only good in Japan. It states that the warranty is not good overseas.


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## artec

That's why you have to get all the warranty work done via whomever you bought it from. In my case they all came from Higuchi so I just send him an e-mail describing the problem, then ship him the watch and he deals with Citizen or Seiko. I'm sure both the manufacturers know perfectly well what's going on but keeping the vendors in the loop keeps the part clean.
I've sent at least one Chronomaster back to be brought into spec and the day and date were misaligned on a a brand new GS, so that is now on its way back to Mr Seiko. I started buying from Japan in 2006 so not bad, I think.


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## ingmar

Same here. Higuchi and seiya both handle things well.


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## clarencek

Wow I can't believe I missed this review. Thanks south Pender. I had tried to order one from Higuchi in the fall and they were sold out everywhere. Look forward to seeing how this watch evolves in the next few years.


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## john9

artec said:


> That's why you have to get all the warranty work done via whomever you bought it from. In my case they all came from Higuchi so I just send him an e-mail describing the problem, then ship him the watch and he deals with Citizen or Seiko. I'm sure both the manufacturers know perfectly well what's going on but keeping the vendors in the loop keeps the part clean.
> I've sent at least one Chronomaster back to be brought into spec and the day and date were misaligned on a a brand new GS, so that is now on its way back to Mr Seiko. I started buying from Japan in 2006 so not bad, I think.


What happens if I buy the watch from a dealer in the US ?


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## everose

john9 said:


> What happens if I buy the watch from a dealer in the US ?


If it is an AD then return it to them for any work to be done.They will send it back to Japan on your behalf if required.


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## john9

everose said:


> If it is an AD then return it to them for any work to be done.They will send it back to Japan on your behalf if required.


What is an AD ?


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## artec

An Authorized dealer. But while there are ADs who could sell you a Grand Seiko (quartz, Springdrive or automatic), there aren't any Citizen dealers from whom you could buy either a Chronomaster or the new Ecodrive Citizen, the 58E, because, so far at least, Citizen mean it when they say Japanese Market only.


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## Eeeb

AD == Authorized Dealer

ADs have access to the company's support and repair resources which others do not.


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## john9

artec said:


> An Authorized dealer. But while there are ADs who could sell you a Grand Seiko (quartz, Springdrive or automatic), there aren't any Citizen dealers from whom you could buy either a Chronomaster or the new Ecodrive Citizen, the 58E, because, so far at least, Citizen mean it when they say Japanese Market only.


Can I order the Aq1000-58e from Japan via an AD in the USA and still receive the 10 year warranty.


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## everose

john9 said:


> Can I order the Aq1000-58e from Japan via an AD in the USA and still receive the 10 year warranty.


No, because of the reason Artec has already stated.Citizen do not want to sell The Citizen range outside of Japan and will not supply it to AD's outside of Japan.
To benefit from their 10 year warranty the warranty MUST be registered to a Japanese address afaik.
I have no reason to believe this situation has recently changed.
I hope this helps answer your question.


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## artec

I know of no problem with warranty claims made by US buyers from the known Japanese dealers for JDM products like Chronomasters etc. I have sent watches back for time-keeping adjustments, non-warranty case repairs (it turned out to be a case replacement, though I asked for a new bezel) and I have a Grand Seiko back there right now getting its day and date aligned (or maybe the whole thing exchanged, I don't know yet). That's just my own experience. 
I know of several other members who have sent watches back for repairs and/or adjustments, all, as far as I know, without trouble. I'd a lot rather deal with Katsu Higuchi in Japan than with local dealers or watchmakers here, though I'm sure there are good ones here, too. 
As everose says, JDM watch warranty only works if the manufacturer has reason to believe the owner bought it in Japan, and if the AD sends the watch for repair, the manufacturer has enough reason. I am sure that Seiko and Citizen are well aware that Higuchi, Seiya, Chino, and probably others, sell JDM products outside Japan and are probably quite happy with that situation. And they will also know that unless the warranty is honored, even via the dealers, the market will dry up before long. I would not, however, try dealing directly with Seiko or Citizen if you bought from Japan.


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## everose

Artec quote: " I am sure that Seiko and Citizen are well aware that Higuchi, Seiya, Chino, and probably others, sell JDM products outside Japan and are probably quite happy with that situation."

My own experience with Chino specifically regarding The Citizen was a little different.
When i enquired with Chino 13 months ago about purchasing an A660 The Citizen, they told me Citizen would no longer accept Chino's own address as a proxy for their customers regarding The Citizen range.
They went on to state that as a consequence i would not be able to benefit from the 10 yr warranty as i did not have a Japanese domestic address.I know several people had done so successfully prior to my enquiry and so i was a little surprised by their response.
(I have worked with Chino regarding other JDM watches and always had a great interaction.)

For Seiya it was not a problem and so i purchased a The Citizen through him.A fast and flawless transaction ensued.


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## South Pender

everose said:


> Artec quote: " I am sure that Seiko and Citizen are well aware that Higuchi, Seiya, Chino, and probably others, sell JDM products outside Japan and are probably quite happy with that situation."
> 
> My own experience with Chino specifically regarding The Citizen was a little different.
> When i enquired with Chino 13 months ago about purchasing an A660 The Citizen, they told me Citizen would no longer accept Chino's own address as a proxy for their customers regarding The Citizen range.
> They went on to state that as a consequence i would not be able to benefit from the 10 yr warranty as i did not have a Japanese domestic address.I know several people had done so successfully prior to my enquiry and so i was a little surprised by their response.
> (I have worked with Chino regarding other JDM watches and always had a great interaction.)
> 
> For Seiya it was not a problem and so i purchased a The Citizen through him.A fast and flawless transaction ensued.


That is extremely interesting. Why things would be different for Chino than for Higuchi I have no idea. With Seiya, of course, you were not dealing with an AD, but rather with a hobbyist who buys from whatever sources he can and then resells the watches to his customers. Thus, to Citizen, Seiya would probably seem more like a legitimate purchaser of one of their watches, and, as long as he is willing to accept that proxy role for _his_ customers, you should have no problem with the warranty details. Your experience with Chino--and their relationship with Citizen--however, raises some concerns that Higuchi may eventually have to bow out of this role as well. I hope these concerns are unfounded as one of the really strong selling points vis-à-vis _The Citizen_ models is the 10-year warranty and free adjustments along the way.


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## everose

I never came across anyone else experiencing the same issue with Chino....Perhaps it was just a one off,perhaps a trainee answered my email??....who knows? !!

I don't think we need to start worrying about it just yet.I just wanted to share that specific experience with you guys.
As i stated previously i am not criticising Chino in any way.They have been very helpful with all my other requests.




On another off-topic note......I thought The Citizen was unique offering a 10 yr warranty.
I noticed the other day Zenton include a 10 yr warranty with their watches......too bad they have no HAQ models!


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## herrbrahms

Excellent review from S. Pender and great comments from all concerned. It was particularly enlightening to me to see how warranty service is handled by proxy when you buy through Higuchi or Seiya.


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## SJACKAL

I am getting one!


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## ronalddheld

Another unneeded bump after almost 7 years.


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