# New Snowflake - SBGA211G (With pics)



## Blue Jam (Aug 7, 2013)

While I'm not surprised the Snowflake is getting the Basel '17 rebrand, I didn't expect it to come round so soon. Deposits now being taken for May release.









As far as my untrained eyes can tell, not much else has changed bar the branding. Now I was onboard with the rebrand, the removal of SEIKO seems like a good idea, but if all that's happening is a cut and past of the "GS Grand Seiko" text from 6 to 12 to replace SEIKO, I'm actually _not sure _I prefer the new layout. In the original, the awkward power reserve was fine as there's nowhere else on the dial it could be placed, but on the updated version the same awkward power reserve and the new, also awkward blank space above an awkwardly lonely "spring drive"... is just too much damn awkward! Maybe it'll grown on me?


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## Alysandir (Jun 29, 2016)

I'm honestly a bit torqued off about this, plus the announcement elsewhere that the SEIKO-dialed GS are going to be heavily discounted, given that I got my Snowflake a little less than a year ago at no discount. I mean, it happens, but I kind of feel like I was left holding the bag by this turn of events. Even if I were to sell it now, I'd lose more money on it than I would've pre-Basel.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## Squeaks5635 (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks for the pictures.

Your sentiments are exactly why I dropped my pre-order and picked up something different.


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## Watchseeker27 (Feb 27, 2016)

Thanks for the first clear pictures I've seen of this. I agree, the bottom text seems too lonely now...


I just bought the old variant of snowflake a month ago, and was told that pricing was going to be raised around now, so I'll be very unhappy if they are reduced instead....


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## Blue Jam (Aug 7, 2013)

Alysandir said:


> I'm honestly a bit torqued off about this, plus the announcement elsewhere that the SEIKO-dialed GS are going to be heavily discounted, given that I got my Snowflake a little less than a year ago at no discount. I mean, it happens, but I kind of feel like I was left holding the bag by this turn of events. Even if I were to sell it now, I'd lose more money on it than I would've pre-Basel.
> 
> Regards,
> Alysandir


It's beginning to feel a little indelicately handled - the revised version includes a nice 5% price bump (even though there's actually a tiny bit less work involved as fewer dial components) for precious little that prospective buyers can get excited about (same case, movement, hands etc). The value angle has been a GS strong suit but that is being ever so slightly eroded here.


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## Foxman2k (Jun 16, 2014)

Old snowflake looks way better. Glad I have mine.


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## dchang81 (Aug 9, 2015)

They are being heavily discounted??


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## MLJinAK (Feb 14, 2015)

Looks like a cheap rebadge as a place holder for new designs...
Probably trying to use up all the current dials before they roll out new ones?

Agreed with the "indelicately" handled. It seems like it was an abrupt decision where new management is scrambling to release something with "new" branding.


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

Correct, awkward. Trust your instincts.. shouldn't have to try to like a watch. The result of changing the current spring drives over to the "new" (not really new, they just removed something) dial branding just looks ugly. I understand it's a matter of taste, but this case is one of those odd cases of opinion that seems as close to fact as possible.


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

The new looks ... awful. The PR and SD look ... lost in a snow covered field 



Blue Jam said:


> While I'm not surprised the Snowflake is getting the Basel '17 rebrand, I didn't expect it to come round so soon. Deposits now being taken for May release.
> 
> View attachment 11491282
> 
> ...


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## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

I was afraid something like that would happen... I am in the same boat as the people that like the old one better. 
Will they be sold simultaneously or will the old ones stop being sold altogether?


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

eresaru said:


> I was afraid something like that would happen... I am in the same boat as the people that like the old one better.
> Will they be sold simultaneously or will the old ones stop being sold altogether?


Production on the old versions is now discontinued, and apparently in some places now being sold as a clearance item, so as not to have any left when the new versions arrive for retail. Very odd, being that many prefer the old versions (primarily the spring drive with power reserve models) and now they can be had cheaper than ever. It's an unwarranted buyer's market now.


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

G07 said:


> The new looks ... awful. The PR and SD look ... lost in a snow covered field


I'm afraid that the sbga211 will probably continue to be referred to as the "Snowflake," but it doesn't deserve to be.... Maybe it should be called "Snow Storm Aftermath"

On the plus side, the style of the new catalogue watch pictures appears to be much better now than the old catalogue renderings.


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## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

bluedialer said:


> Production on the old versions is now discontinued, and apparently in some places now being sold as a clearance item, so as not to have any left when the new versions arrive for retail. Very odd, being that many prefer the old versions (primarily the spring drive with power reserve models) and now they can be had cheaper than ever. It's an unwarranted buyer's market now.


Of course being in Sydney, only a handful of places even stock GS, let alone a (ex?) highly desirable model like the snowflake. 
Last I checked, only the boutique had one and the others were expecting a multi month wait before next shipment. So unfortunately that may never come anymore.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

The dial of the original Snowflake looked like an exercise in calligraphy. I find the new one quite sterile looking. But having said that its allready starting to grow on me. The spring drive text size and font needs to be adjusted, but the relatively larger open space allows for more room to admire that beautiful frosty landscape which makes the snowflake so unique to begin with.


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## zaratsu (Jul 27, 2013)

I liked the idea of just using GS Grand Seiko branding on the dial, but the execution has left me a little cold on the snowflake (no pun intended).

I think it needs a complete redesign to look right, so as it stands, I prefer Snowflake V1.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Brandon Hobbs (Oct 30, 2015)

Second verse same as the first...

I think the new branding is unbalanced. There is huge open field below the hands' axis. This, as others pointed out, makes the power reserve seem strangely placed. I had no issue with the seiko name on the watch but I get that they want GS to be a brand and not a sub brand, kudos. I hope it brings them success as I love GS and Seiko as a whole. I think I would have moved the GS above the hands and left the Grand Seiko below with any caliber/movement info. But maybe they'll tweak it before actual release or even somewhere in the future; I doubt it'll be a brand killer.


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

If Seiko felt they had to make a change they should have realized that besides the word "Seiko" not needing to appear twice for people to know the watch is a Seiko, the dial would look better if the lettering remained the same at 6 o'clock and the 12 o'clock location was free of lettering and emblems.


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## MLJinAK (Feb 14, 2015)

And we need to start seeing links to these GS's on "clearance" prices.


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## nielss (Jun 11, 2015)

If anyone actually finds SBGA011s on clearance, please let us know! I just did a quick scan and saw nada, but I didn't have time to visit a lot of individual sites. Used Snowflakes are selling for pretty much what they sold for before, at least on the bay. None in watchrecon as of the time I write this.


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

100% agree with this! I've suggested this a couple of times in the past. GS under 12; Grand Seiko and movement above 6. The new "movement" font just plain sucks.

Not sure where Seiko (GS) designers are getting their inspiration (or lack there of) from. The past 2 years have made me scratch my head with most of their new offerings.

Basel 2018 might be better? I'll stick to my trusty SBGM021 - love it!



















Brandon Hobbs said:


> Second verse same as the first...
> 
> I think the new branding is unbalanced. There is huge open field below the hands' axis. This, as others pointed out, makes the power reserve seem strangely placed. I had no issue with the seiko name on the watch but I get that they want GS to be a brand and not a sub brand, kudos. I hope it brings them success as I love GS and Seiko as a whole. I think I would have moved the GS above the hands and left the Grand Seiko below with any caliber/movement info. But maybe they'll tweak it before actual release or even somewhere in the future; I doubt it'll be a brand killer.


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## Squeaks5635 (Mar 13, 2017)

I called at least half of the authorized dealers for the US a little over a week ago looking for an old dial snowflake after I found out my pre-order was going to be a new dial. Nobody had one in stock except for the boutique in Miami which was of course full MSRP. So I say goodluck to you on your search, I would be very surprised to see someone who still had one let alone have it on clearance.


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

Squeaks5635 said:


> I called at least half of the authorized dealers for the US a little over a week ago looking for an old dial snowflake after I found out my pre-order was going to be a new dial. Nobody had one in stock except for the boutique in Miami which was of course full MSRP. So I say goodluck to you on your search, I would be very surprised to see someone who still had one let alone have it on clearance.


That makes me so sad to read... Even though I already have an sbga011. Which means I do have empathy and I'm not a psychopath after all!

Anyway, I wonder if sbga211 is truly what we'll be stuck with long term. Or will Seiko (yes, SEIKO... It's still a Seiko, after all) actually listen and try to tweak the design if they see/hear enough negative feedback....


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## Allan_de_dub (Oct 18, 2016)

Personally I'm not a fan of the new logo. I would prefer if they used the Grand Seiko in gothic or the lion emblem with Grand Seiko in gothic underneath it. Agreed that the power reserve looks too isolated on the new designs.


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## dsquared24 (Mar 10, 2016)

Squeaks5635 said:


> I called at least half of the authorized dealers for the US a little over a week ago looking for an old dial snowflake after I found out my pre-order was going to be a new dial. Nobody had one in stock except for the boutique in Miami which was of course full MSRP. So I say goodluck to you on your search, I would be very surprised to see someone who still had one let alone have it on clearance.


I was at Tick Tock in Westminster, CA last weekend and they had 1 SBGA011 in the case. I asked and they said they had a couple more in the back too. They also said they were selling them at full retail. But ymmv give them a call it's worth a shot.

Before I got mine I contacted Timeless right around Basel and they were out. Called up Toppers and that's where I got mine, Rob said it was the last one they had.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## timeonmyhands05 (Oct 27, 2015)

It's alway's best to wait before buying.


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## robhaa (Jan 24, 2015)

Picked up an old model at a discounted price - have to say I like the balance of the dial better... But maybe I'll regret it as I get more used to the new layout 


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## Cornelius (Jul 8, 2008)

the dial is a work of art!


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## Matthall (Dec 14, 2015)

robhaa said:


> Picked up an old model at a discounted price - have to say I like the balance of the dial better... But maybe I'll regret it as I get more used to the new layout
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where?!


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## robhaa (Jan 24, 2015)

Matthall said:


> Where?!


Should have been more precise - it was a grey market seller from Philly on eBay, but he provided a stamped warranty card from an NYC AD. So it was not a direct from AD purchase...


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## Alysandir (Jun 29, 2016)

Just to be clear, I talked to my AD about discounting and found out that this is allegedly nothing sanctioned by Grand Seiko and allegedly limited to only a couple well-known sellers who - again allegedly - were not authorized by GS to do so. But yes, at least a couple forums members were recounting in another thread having recently gotten pre-rebrand GS at significantly discounted prices (whatever "significantly" is meant to represent).

Out of courtesy, I'll leave it at that.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## robhaa (Jan 24, 2015)

Alysandir said:


> Just to be clear, I talked to my AD about discounting and found out that this is allegedly nothing sanctioned by Grand Seiko and allegedly limited to only a couple well-known sellers who - again allegedly - were not authorized by GS to do so. But yes, at least a couple forums members were recounting in another thread having recently gotten pre-rebrand GS at significantly discounted prices (whatever "significantly" is meant to represent).
> 
> Out of courtesy, I'll leave it at that.
> 
> ...


It's the same feedback Timeless gave on their Instagram account: No discounts on older models, but a higher price point on the newer models.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BSHUK1Rgths/


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## Tseg (Mar 29, 2014)

Alysandir said:


> Just to be clear, I talked to my AD about discounting and found out that this is allegedly nothing sanctioned by Grand Seiko and allegedly limited to only a couple well-known sellers who - again allegedly - were not authorized by GS to do so. But yes, at least a couple forums members were recounting in another thread having recently gotten pre-rebrand GS at significantly discounted prices (whatever "significantly" is meant to represent).
> 
> Out of courtesy, I'll leave it at that.
> 
> ...


Fyi, for the last several years I have been offered substantial discounts already... nothing new there.


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## TJMike (Jan 30, 2014)

Tseg said:


> Fyi, for the last several years I have been offered substantial discounts already... nothing new there.


As have I. Indeed I bought my limited edition GS at a substantial discount










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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

Sorry to join the amateur watch design club, curiosity got the better of me and I made these crude mock-ups. What do you guys think, any potential? Honestly, I think I could go for a white gold medallion, help justify the little price hike they're doing...


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

Looks nice, but I'd prefer just the lion without the medallion. If they decided to implement this prices would increase even more.


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

Potential, at least. Don't know if the lion specifically is the answer, but a nice emblem by the power reserve definitely does bring the balance back.


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bluedialer,

For shi$s and giggle, can you do a mock up of the GS at 12 and move Grand Seiko above movement at 6? I keep thinking this may look nice.
Thanks.



bluedialer said:


> Sorry to join the amateur watch design club, curiosity got the better of me and I made these crude mock-ups. What do you guys think, any potential? Honestly, I think I could go for a white gold medallion, help justify the little price hike they're doing...
> 
> View attachment 11516586
> 
> ...


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

For sure - the PR needs a neighbor or be moved ... to the back


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

G07 said:


> Bluedialer,
> 
> For shi$s and giggle, can you do a mock up of the GS at 12 and move Grand Seiko above movement at 6? I keep thinking this may look nice.
> Thanks.


It's been done already. In this thread: https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/future-old-logo-grand-seikos-4220738-8.html
It looked like crap.


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

..


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

Double post.


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks. Checked it out ... I think it has potential.

The PR location on GS screws up dial symmetry IMHO. GS does has never found an eye pleasing location for their PR indicator - it always looks like an after thought ... some like it, some tolerate it and others hate it.

Imagine the _Grand Seiko_ script above the type of movement (better font or remove movement all together) and properly centered between the middle of dial and six o'clock indicie .... would be such an improvement , again - IMHO.

Their new dials, especially with the PR indicators in no mans land, do look like crap. Just one GS fan boys opinion!

I wonder what an Orient Star Classic type of PR indicator below the 12 or above the 6 script would look like?


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## Matthall (Dec 14, 2015)

TJMike said:


> As have I. Indeed I bought my limited edition GS at a substantial discount
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What does 'substantial' translate to in %/monetary value?


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## TJMike (Jan 30, 2014)

Matthall said:


> What does 'substantial' translate to in %/monetary value?


25+%


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## Tseg (Mar 29, 2014)

I like the top one best.



bluedialer said:


> Sorry to join the amateur watch design club, curiosity got the better of me and I made these crude mock-ups. What do you guys think, any potential? Honestly, I think I could go for a white gold medallion, help justify the little price hike they're doing...
> 
> View attachment 11516586
> 
> ...


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## Matthall (Dec 14, 2015)

TJMike said:


> 25+%


Thanks, that's interesting.


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## TJMike (Jan 30, 2014)

Matthall said:


> Thanks, that's interesting.


I bought it in China where I am guessing the demand for Grand Seiko is a lot less than in the US, Europe, Australia etc.

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## jenyang (Oct 17, 2015)

bluedialer said:


> Production on the old versions is now discontinued, and apparently in some places now being sold as a clearance item, so as not to have any left when the new versions arrive for retail. Very odd, being that many prefer the old versions (primarily the spring drive with power reserve models) and now they can be had cheaper than ever. It's an unwarranted buyer's market now.


Well, it's a lucky break for those of us that both prefer the old versions and are in the market for one now. Can't wait for delivery of my "new old" sbga001.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## thecouchguy (Oct 14, 2016)

I like the re brand. However agree on this model the old way looks better.


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## jdmfetish (Nov 30, 2011)

i prefer the newer model


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## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

Now that it's been some time and the dust has settled I have to admit the new design starts growing on me. I generally find that I have started gravitating towards cleaner designs. So having less words on the dial actually makes sense to me. The only think now is the asymmetry of the bottom part of the dial. On the previous dial, the PI was offsetted by the lower logo.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

TJMike said:


> 25+%


China China, or China Hong Kong? I know HK prices can be good, never knew that re China.

Also, 25% off MSRP, or street price?


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## TJMike (Jan 30, 2014)

mrfourcows said:


> China China, or China Hong Kong? I know HK prices can be good, never knew that re China.
> 
> Also, 25% off MSRP, or street price?


Mainland China. It was over 25% off MSRP. Basically cheaper than it has been sold used.

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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

TJMike said:


> Mainland China. It was over 25% off MSRP. Basically cheaper than it has been sold used.


Oh, interesting.

You're always getting a good deal when you buy something new for cheaper than what others want to sell.

Btw, was your deal from a big chain, or like a small independent store? And perhaps if you don't mind, you might share your contact


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## TJMike (Jan 30, 2014)

mrfourcows said:


> Oh, interesting.
> 
> You're always getting a good deal when you buy something new for cheaper than what others want to sell.
> 
> Btw, was your deal from a big chain, or like a small independent store? And perhaps if you don't mind, you might share your contact


It was at a Seiko boutique in Tianjin. Both the boutiques in the city offered the same discount on all their GS in stock (4 in one boutique, 2 in the other). Out of the six watches, three were limited editions.

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## JamesT1978 (Oct 11, 2017)

I've just ordered this model on Chrono24 was a US dealer and hoping it will arrive as expected tomorrow! Fingers crossed.


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/grand-seiko-spring-drive-snowflake-review


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## zaratsu (Jul 27, 2013)

ahonobaka said:


> https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/grand-seiko-spring-drive-snowflake-review


Great write up from Jack, thanks for sharing the link


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## JamesT1978 (Oct 11, 2017)

Got it yesterday - very happy indeed!


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## Ducati_Fiend (Dec 10, 2012)

I prefer the newer model because I have one on the way!


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## Ducati_Fiend (Dec 10, 2012)

JamesT1978 said:


> View attachment 12577569
> 
> 
> Got it yesterday - very happy indeed!


Right behind you!


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## Ducati_Fiend (Dec 10, 2012)

zaratsu said:


> Great write up from Jack, thanks for sharing the link


Yep, I had my say in the comments! lol!


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## Skeleton-Key (Sep 10, 2015)

I must admit I found the initial reaction to this redesign quite amusing. One of the biggest complaints about Grand Seiko that I used to see was the redundancy of it's logos. I think that the new design is absolutely aesthetically superior to its predecessor. The lower logo did nothing to balance the power reserve, and its removal actually makes the power reserve more subdued. It also gives us more of that gorgeous dial.


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## Jay Why (Nov 11, 2017)

Agree..... Less is more


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## RMA (Oct 16, 2013)

I think I prefer the newer version over the previous model myself, but I must say when comparing the newer model Hi Beat SBGH001 vs the newly released model I very much prefer the older over the new logo.


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