# Review: Sea-Gull 1963 FKJB military chronograph reissue



## no-fi

The Sea-Gull 1963 military chronograph has become one of the most iconic and collectible Chinese mechanical watches, and for good reason. But I also think it deserves to be seen as one of the most iconic 20th century military watches from anywhere in the world - it's up there with the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, Rolex Submariner, Vostok Amphibia and Omega Speedmaster in terms of its importance to the military it was designed for. Simply put, the 1963 was a landmark tool watch and a design classic.

The problem for collectors nowadays is that so few of the original Sea-Gull 1963 were ever made - there were only a handful of prototypes, and later only 1700 production models (some sources say only 1400). Fortunately, reissues of the 1963 began to emerge within the last decade. There are now a variety of versions available from different sellers, both reputable and shady, with a variety of different specs - 38mm or 42mm cases; or acrylic, mineral or sapphire crystals. Choosing a legitimate, original and historically accurate reissue is a difficult exercise, however, especially for a beginner. One need only look at other threads to see how much confusion is out there.

The good news is that the Sea-Gull 1963 reissue is now stocked by what I consider to be the most trusted online source for genuine Sea-Gull watches, www.seagullwatchstore.com. As I mentioned in my review of the Sea-Gull designer series tourbillon, they have recently negotiated a deal with the Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Company to offer steep discounts on Sea-Gull 1963 and D304 chronograph watches, exclusively to foreign markets. The 1963 reissue is currently on sale for a competitive US$350.









Firstly, a little history. The Chinese government first commissioned a chronograph watch for pilots in the People's Liberation Army Air Force in 1961. The development contract was awarded to the Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Company, and was code-named Project 304. Sea-Gull based their first chronograph movement, the ST19, on the Swiss-made Venus 175 movement. Whereas the Swiss movement had 17 jewels, the Chinese movement used 19, 21, 22 or even 23 jewels. A number of prototypes were made, and the watch was finally certified for military use and put into production in 1965. Fewer than 2000 prototype and production models were ever made.

There are two main reissues of the Project 304 military watch - one based on the 1963 prototype, and the other based on the D304 production model. This review is of the Sea-Gull 1963 FKJB reissue. The FKJB stands for Fu Ke Jun Biao (复刻军表 in Chinese), which in English translates to Military Watch Reissue.

The FKJB is among the most historically accurate of all the Sea-Gull 1963 reissues. The original watch came in a 37mm brass case plated in nickel; the FKJB comes in a similarly sized 38mm case. The key difference is that the FKJB's case has been upgraded to much more durable 316L premium stainless steel, while retaining the original shape and finish. And, importantly, the size is right - while the 40mm and 42mm reissues may appeal to today's tastes, they're simply not accurate. The FKJB is the real deal.









The case is nicely finished to Sea-Gull's typically high standard. It's entirely mirror-polished, which is a point of difference for a military watch - most field and pilot's watches these days tend to have blasted or brushed finishes. The two chronograph pushers and the large, hand-winding crown are also nicely finished. Water resistance is adequate at 30m.

The FKJB stands an impressive 11mm tall (without the crystal) or about 13.5mm tall with the bubble-domed acrylic crystal - another historically accurate touch. While mineral and sapphire crystals are more in line with modern tastes, they lack the vintage charm of domed acrylic, which really stands out and makes the dial pop. Acrylic is also very shatter-resistant, and while it scratches more easily than mineral or sapphire, it's also much easier to buff any scratches out. I also love the way the domed crystal distorts the hands and dial when viewed from very acute angles.









The simple case back is the only part of the case with any finishing or ornamentation - it is brushed with concentric circles, and engraved with minimal text and the Red Star of the People's Liberation Army. It's nicely done.









The dial and hands are the real stars of the show. The dial is a gorgeous finely-speckled champagne colour that constantly shifts and changes with each movement of the wrist - it can be silver, beige or gold, depending on the angle and intensity of the light. The dial colour beautifully contrasts and complements the applied gold-tone Arabic numerals and indices, as well as the gold rimmed Red Star below 12 o'clock. The chronograph seconds are marked out in fine black printed indices around the edge of the dial. There are two subdials - one at 9 o'clock, which is the small seconds dial, and another at 3 o'clock, which marks elapsed minutes on the chronograph, up to half an hour.









The hands are simply stunning. The heat-treated blue hour and minute hands are the perfect lengths for at-a-glance legibility, and they reflect light wonderfully. The subdials also have blue hands, with attractive spade counterweights. They all contrast nicely with the red chronograph second hand, which sits at 12 o'clock when not in use, and gracefully traces the edge of the dial when in use.

The ST1901 movement is a joy to use. Hand-winding on the big crown is easy, smooth and responsive, with just the right amount of give when it is fully wound. The movement is true to its 40 hour reserve rating, and keeps good time, within 15 seconds a day. The top pusher at 2 o'clock starts and stops the chrono. It has just the right amount of give to remind you this is a mechanical chrono, and its action is instantaneous. The bottom pusher at 4 o'clock is a similar story - it instantly snaps the chrono second hand back to place with just the right amount of pressure. This is a well-made movement, and you can really feel that you're using a mechanical chrono. It helps that, in quiet settings, you can hear the watch ticking away.

The FKJB has 18mm lugs and comes on a Nato-style one-piece nylon strap in a fetching military-beige colour. It's a high quality strap that suits the watch perfectly.









On the wrist, the FKJB is the perfect size. It's not so large that it won't fit smaller wrists, like mine, but it's also not too small. It's functional, toolish and undeniably masculine. And it looks great.









The bubble-domed crystal gives the watch real presence, but it doesn't look out of proportion. The only potential drawback is that it could be hard to fit under shirtsleeves - but that shouldn't be an issue, because this is a watch to be worn casually.









Or is it? I tried it on a nice brown leather strap to see if it would work as an office watch.









I'll leave it for you to judge whether it works. But if you ask me, it's pure class.









On a two-piece strap, it fits even more snugly on the wrist than on the stock Nato.









And check out how the dial changes colour in different light.









There are plenty of other strap options over at this thread, but honestly, you can't really go wrong with the stock strap.

If you've been thinking about getting a Sea-Gull 1963, I can't recommend the FKJB from www.seagullwatchstore.com enough. You can be assured it's genuine, and it's among the most historically accurate. Put simply, it's a great watch. I've scarcely taken it off since I got it. It's that good.


----------



## lovebandit

Great review, thanks for your hard work! I bought the mineral crystaled 42mm version because I preferred the size (for my 8" wrist) and the mineral crystal and especially the clear caseback but I did so knowing full well my version wasn't historically accurate. They are both very fun watches for the money and I wear mine alot!!


----------



## gak

What a nice review, I almost ignored the discounted price of 350$ compared to what I paid almost double in Shanghai . I have also not taken it off much. My only wish is if they had better water rating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AlbertaTime

A well-written, thoughtful article. Great read. And your 1963 photos are _wonderful_; they're among the very best I've ever seen.

One minor quibble: "by far the most historically accurate" may be overstated.

For example: hked's 304 re-issue, which is based on LiWei's original 1963, and unlike some other 1963 variants, includes the 304 squadron logo and small rectangular indices, can make a case that is at least as strong. (Please understand, I'm not trying to be controversial, here. Seagullwatchstore's is a worthy version.)

Originals that I have seen and held...and drooled over:

LiWei's incredibly pristine 304...










Two originals at the Tianjin Watch and Clock Collector's Association private museum.









Compare those to the hked cream dial variant (borrowed from "A Fine Tooth Comb")...









As well, here's an original black dial version. (photo courtesy hked)









...and my hked black dial variant based on that (with requested red second hand)









I own 4 variants: two hked/ed1963s, one blank star variant from a great friend in China, and one "red star" like yours but with red lettering on the back


----------



## no-fi

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

Special thanks to AlbertaTime - you're quite right that I overstated the FKJB's historical accuracy compared with other reissues. In my enthusiasm I must have got carried away! I'll amend the review to read "_among _the most most historically accurate".

Thanks for the wealth of great pics, too. Those vintage 304s are gorgeous!


----------



## cetaphil

Beautiful.


----------



## Rivarama

Great review.

I have seen a 38mm version with an acrylic crystal and a display case back from Island Watch. Other than the caseback are there any difference between these two watches?

Seagull 1963 Hand Wind Mechanical Chronograph with Acrylic Crystal #6345A-2901


----------



## no-fi

Rivarama said:


> Great review.
> 
> I have seen a 38mm version with an acrylic crystal and a display case back from Island Watch. Other than the caseback are there any difference between these two watches?
> 
> Seagull 1963 Hand Wind Mechanical Chronograph with Acrylic Crystal #6345A-2901


Thanks for the feedback.

It looks to me like there's quite a few differences between the two. My watch has a 21-jewel movement, spade counterweights on both subdial hands, an unsigned crown, and is 11 thick; the Island Watch example has a 19-jewel movement, no counterweight on the 3'oclock subdial hand, different text on the dial, a signed crown, and is a substantial 15mm thick. I suspect the extra 4mm thickness is the trade-off for the display back, which allows you to see the beautiful ST19 movement.

Also, you may want to ask Marc at Island Watch where he sources his 1963s from. There's one review on his site which says the watch arrived without a box or papers, so it may not have come through official channels (or it may have been sent that way because the buyer lives outside the US). I'm not saying the Long Island watch isn't legit, but it pays to ask because there are knock-offs that use genuine Sea-Gull movements, but aren't made by Sea-Gull or a trusted source like hked.

For what it's worth, I always deal with seagullwatchstore.com because they have a direct relationship with the factory, so you can be guaranteed their watches are genuine. Their watches _always _arrive with boxes, papers and manuals - and, in the case of my tourbillon, a numbered certificate of authenticity for extra security. Fast free shipping, too.


----------



## Rivarama

That's a good number of difference. Is yours more true to the original? I definitely think 11mm is more suitable for a watch this size.


----------



## no-fi

Rivarama said:


> That's a good number of difference. Is yours more true to the original? I definitely think 11mm is more suitable for a watch this size.


The thickness, unsigned crown and solid caseback are more true to the original. The dial text on mine also seems truer to the original. Check out the dial text on the vintage 304 in the Tianjin Watch and Clock Collector's private museum, as posted by AlbertaTime above. The text is exactly the same. The first line reads China (中国) and the second line reads Tianjin Watch Factory (天津手表厂). The Island Watch model only has one line of text, which reads Made in China (中国制造). I haven't seen that on any vintage 304s.

On the other hand, the Island Watch model's hands may be truer to the original - I haven't seen any vintage '63s with spade counterweights on both subdial hands.

In the end, I don't think any of the reissues are 100 per cent true to the originals. Adding to the complexity is the fact that were so many different 304s made within a short five-year period, so it's impossible to say any one of them was the _definitive _model. You're comparing apples, oranges, kumquats and lychees.

The production model, rather than the 1963 prototype, is much easier to pin down, since it was built in much larger numbers. You may want to check out Sea-Gull's D304 reissue, which is pretty true to the original production model. That said, it has quite a different look and feel to the 1963. Some, myself included, prefer the look of the 1963.

At the end of the day, you should go with what you like the best, and buy from a trusted source. For what it's worth, I don't think you can go wrong with the seagullwatchstore.com offering. But ultimately, it's up to you. Good luck!


----------



## hked

Nice, detailed review with great photos!

A few things I would like to add if you don't mind. The display case back is thicker than the solid (historically correct) but most people prefer to see the movement in action and choose the display. They are interchangeable so the case is exactly the same as you mentioned. 

The ST1901 used in both watches is the same calibre movement with the same number of jewels. Some designs use 19 jewels and others 21 jewels on the dial.

Are there 40mm models available? I thought they only came in 38mm and 42mm 

Enjoy your 1963 Reissue!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Qidamin

The different versions of this watch have already been discussed in another thread. Seems that there have been 3 different main prototypes among other, corresponding to: the actual 1963, the Ed version and the D304 version. You can check these links:
A Fine-Tooth Comb: In Review: Made in China and Proud of It - The Seagull 1963 Reissue
A Fine-Tooth Comb: Watches: Affordable Vintage Appeal - The Seagull 1963


----------



## gak

What I gather from recent updates is that FKJB is the reissue produced at Tianjin thus having that 2nd line of text bearing factory's name. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AlbertaTime

no-fi said:


> My watch has a 21-jewel movement...the Island Watch example has a 19-jewel movement...


here's an article on the actual jewel count...
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/confused-how-many-jewels-st-1901-movt-285458.html, and another:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/seagull-st19-jewel-count-=-21-23-thanks-lysanderxiii-189937.html


----------



## no-fi

hked said:


> Nice, detailed review with great photos!
> 
> A few things I would like to add if you don't mind. The display case back is thicker than the solid (historically correct) but most people prefer to see the movement in action and choose the display. They are interchangeable so the case is exactly the same as you mentioned.
> 
> The ST1901 used in both watches is the same calibre movement with the same number of jewels. Some designs use 19 jewels and others 21 jewels on the dial.
> 
> Are there 40mm models available? I thought they only came in 38mm and 42mm
> 
> Enjoy your 1963 Reissue!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





AlbertaTime said:


> here's an article on the actual jewel count...
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/confused-how-many-jewels-st-1901-movt-285458.html, and another:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/seagull-st19-jewel-count-%3D-21-23-thanks-lysanderxiii-189937.html


Many thanks for your responses. I'm grateful to learn from two of the most venerable members around these parts!

I was particularly intrigued to learn that the jewel count is the same across all ST1901 movements, despite what the dial says. So the dial on mine is, in a way, the least accurate. It should either say 19 Zuan (historically correct) or 23 Zuan (currently correct, including the two 'hidden' jewels). How odd!

And Ed, you're quite right about there being no 40mm version. I got that detail from an (incorrect) website listing. I've now updated the review for accuracy.

I also agree that most people seem to prefer the display back. Out of interest, do you sell the display backs separately? It would be nice to be able to swap them out.

Oh, and feel free to send me one of your models for review, Ed. Your black dial model is stunning!


----------



## millionaire

Do any of you have any proof these aren't just knockoffs?

The incorrect text on the dial (wrong number of jewels) would suggest it's a knockoff.

So what proof do we have this isn't just a fakes factory in China pretending these are official watches?


----------



## Qidamin

I have seen the 1963 in the Seagull shop in Beijing. But at that time I was not aware of all these version so I didn't check how was the dial. I should go to check again!
@millionaire: in fact there are no real identical version to the original one, even the one from Seagull is not identical (considering the red star, the hand with a tail on the left subdial...). I don't think there are any knock off, just some seem to have a better quality than others (Ed or Thomas version seem to have better quality than the one from Watchunique from what I have read) and there are some slight differences between the models.


----------



## Triggaaar

no-fi said:


> The Sea-Gull 1963 military chronograph has become one of the most iconic and collectible Chinese mechanical watches, and for good reason. But I also think it deserves to be seen as one of the most iconic 20th century military watches from anywhere in the world - it's up there with the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, Rolex Submariner, Vostok Amphibia and Omega Speedmaster in terms of its importance to the military it was designed for.


I'm interested in getting a Sea-Gull watch and I've read all of your post, thanks for the review. What is it that makes this watch up there with the others you mention, in terms of its importance to the military - what did it do that other watches couldn't etc?

Thanks


----------



## kronological

I enjoyed your well written review and stunning pics. Thanks!


----------



## no-fi

Triggaaar said:


> I'm interested in getting a Sea-Gull watch and I've read all of your post, thanks for the review. What is it that makes this watch up there with the others you mention, in terms of its importance to the military - what did it do that other watches couldn't etc?
> 
> Thanks


It was a first for China's armed forces - their pilots now had a domestically produced, accurate and reliable chronograph to time flight and mission-critical tasks. Just like the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms gave the French frogmen an accurate, robust, domestically produced watch they could use on military dives, etc.


----------



## AlbertaTime

millionaire said:


> Do any of you have any proof these aren't just knockoffs? The incorrect text on the dial (wrong number of jewels) would suggest it's a knockoff. So what proof do we have this isn't just a fakes factory in China pretending these are official watches?


The short answer to your question is: there are a small number of producers involved in these 63 re-issues, depending on the model and variants, but I'd venture that essentially none of it takes place without the knowledge of Tianjin and Tsinlien (HK) Sea-Gull and/or very closely related (and known to each other) business people.

The incorrect jewel-count text is generally understood as mostly due to honest confusion or producers deciding whether the text should reflect the watch being "homaged" or the actual jewel count contained in the watch. For example, this post from a former respected and quite above-board seller discusses his decisions openly. There are arguments on both sides of that question but no one familiar with the industry that I'm aware of posits dishonesty as a motive for that choice, now.

Now, in the case of *other* watches...sure. Incorrect jewel count might be a tipoff to fakery...but all my experience says that's not the case here.


----------



## taike

AlbertaTime said:


> The short answer to your question is: there are a small number of producers involved in these 63 re-issues, depending on the model and variants, but I'd venture that essentially none of it takes place without the knowledge of Tianjin and Tsinlien (HK) Sea-Gull and/or very closely related (and known to each other) business people.
> 
> The incorrect jewel-count text is generally understood as due to producers deciding whether the text should reflect the watch being "homaged" or the actual jewel count contained in the watch. There are arguments on both sides of that question but no one familiair with the industry that I'm aware of has ever posited dishonesty as a motive for that choice.


So would you say that the OP has made unfounded remarks about shady sellers, with implication that some editions are less legitimate than others? Is seagullwatchstore.com really more legitimate than other sources?


----------



## AlbertaTime

taike said:


> So would you say that the OP has made unfounded remarks about shady sellers, with implication that some editions are less legitimate than others? Is seagullwatchstore.com really more legitimate than other sources?


My understanding is that seagullwatchstore is a reputable dealer with good factory connections. I think the person raising the question had unanswered suspicions. I'm glad to help.


----------



## no-fi

taike said:


> So would you say that the OP has made unfounded remarks about shady sellers, with implication that some editions are less legitimate than others? Is seagullwatchstore.com really more legitimate than other sources?





AlbertaTime said:


> My understanding is that seagullwatchstore is a reputable dealer with good factory connections. I think the person raising the question had unanswered suspicions. I'm glad to help.


My comment was not meant to de-legitimise any of the well-known and well-trusted editions of the 1963. My point, inelegantly expressed, is that you need to trust the seller. The more you know about the seller's place in the supply chain, and their relationship to the manufacturer, the better. The more steps removed from the source, the more uncertainty there is.

I think it would be naive to think there are not fakes of the 1963. Counterfeiting is not a problem that affects only European brands - it hurts Chinese brands as much as any other. The Chinese watch industry does not like to admit admit it, but there are plenty of Chinese counterfeits of Chinese watches, including those popular with Western collectors. I have had this confirmed to me - with some frustration - by a prominent figure in the Chinese watch trade. I won't name him, because the comment was made in confidence, but I trust him enough to accept it to be true.

In the end, it is up to you who you buy from. Personally, I choose to deal with sellers who are up-front about their place in the supply chain and have good communication. From what I have gleaned, you can be confident when dealing with the likes of seagullwatchstore.com, Thomas or Ed. A random eBay seller? Not so much.


----------



## AlbertaTime

no-fi said:


> My comment was not meant to de-legitimise any of the well-known and well-trusted editions of the 1963. My point, inelegantly expressed, is that you need to trust the seller. The more you know about the seller's place in the supply chain, and their relationship to the manufacturer, the better. The more steps removed from the source, the more uncertainty there is.
> 
> I think it would be naive to think there are not fakes of the 1963. Counterfeiting is not a problem that affects only European brands - it hurts Chinese brands as much as any other. The Chinese watch industry does not like to admit admit it, but there are plenty of Chinese counterfeits of Chinese watches, including those popular with Western collectors. I have had this confirmed to me - with some frustration - by a prominent figure in the Chinese watch trade. I won't name him, because the comment was made in confidence, but I trust him enough to accept it to be true.
> 
> In the end, it is up to you who you buy from. Personally, I choose to deal with sellers who are up-front about their place in the supply chain and have good communication. From what I have gleaned, you can be confident when dealing with the likes of seagullwatchstore.com, Thomas or Ed. A random eBay seller? Not so much.


Nuthin' unfair about that. I don't think you expressed it badly in the first place.



no-fi said:


> The Chinese watch industry does not like to admit admit it, but there are plenty of Chinese counterfeits of Chinese watches, including those popular with Western collectors. I have had this confirmed to me - with some frustration - by a prominent figure in the Chinese watch trade. I won't name him, because the comment was made in confidence, but I trust him enough to accept it to be true.


I don't think the watch industry in general hides it. In fact, I've met the executives with the CHA and the Shenzhen Watch Associations with specific responsibilities regarding IP issues and product protection. What I do think the industry does is work to minimize the damage fakery causes the legitimate industry, including by reminding people that it's a fraction of the overall business.


----------



## Triggaaar

no-fi said:


> The FKJB stands an impressive 11mm tall. Much of that is due to the bubble-domed acrylic crystal
> 
> View attachment 8075834


Hi no-fi

I read the spec of the FKJB which says it's 11mm thick, but is that really correct? I ask because Thomas (who sells versions of the 1963, and is the man responsible for the original 1963 re-issue) says his 38mm versions are 15.5mm thick. They also have the domed crystal, they use the same movement, etc etc, so I can't understand why the FKJB is so much thinner.

Would you be able to check for me please?

Many thanks
Trig


----------



## no-fi

Triggaaar said:


> Hi no-fi
> 
> I read the spec of the FKJB which says it's 11mm thick, but is that really correct? I ask because Thomas (who sells versions of the 1963, and is the man responsible for the original 1963 re-issue) says his 38mm versions are 15.5mm thick. They also have the domed crystal, they use the same movement, etc etc, so I can't understand why the FKJB is so much thinner.
> 
> Would you be able to check for me please?
> 
> Many thanks
> Trig


The display back is several millimetres thicker than the solid back, hence part of the discrepancy. The acrylic might also have something to do with it, but I haven't compared both so can't say if there is any difference.


----------



## Triggaaar

no-fi said:


> The display back is several millimetres thicker than the solid back, hence part of the discrepancy. The acrylic might also have something to do with it, but I haven't compared both so can't say if there is any difference.


Thanks for the reply. I'm not even after the display back, I want the steel back. The acrylic should be pretty similar. I thought perhaps the FKJB was incorrectly specified as 11mm, but do you think that's right?

Maybe Thomas has made a mistake.


----------



## no-fi

Triggaaar said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm not even after the display back, I want the steel back. The acrylic should be pretty similar. I thought perhaps the FKJB was incorrectly specified as 11mm, but do you think that's right?
> 
> Maybe Thomas has made a mistake.


The FKJB is 11mm. I can't help any further, sorry.

EDIT: It's actually about 13.5mm - the manufacturer's specs do not include the domed crystal.


----------



## Triggaaar

no-fi said:


> The FKJB is 11mm. I can't help any further, sorry.


That's cool, thanks. I'll update when I hear back from Thomas tomorrow.


----------



## gak

Triggaaar said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm not even after the display back, I want the steel back. The acrylic should be pretty similar. I thought perhaps the FKJB was incorrectly specified as 11mm, but do you think that's right?
> 
> Maybe Thomas has made a mistake.


I measured with calipers, just the main reading ignoring the vernier scale (holding my breath) and it can't be less than 14mm. 
Version I have is FKJB i.e doomed arcylic crystal with solid caseback. So I think Thomas is right as display back may add and make total thickness as 15.5

I can only assume that 11mm is only the height of the case excluding arcylic doom.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Triggaaar

Thanks for the reply.


gak said:


> I measured with calipers, just the main reading ignoring the vernier scale (holding my breath) and it can't be less than 14mm.
> Version I have is FKJB i.e doomed arcylic crystal with solid caseback.


Oh god it's getting worse! no-fi has the FKJB, with acrylic crystal, and he says it's 11mm.



> So I think Thomas is right as display back may add and make total thickness as 15.5


Thomas originally said that it was 15.5mm for both the solid and display back, but he's since said the domed acrylic crystal model with display back = 13.3mm

I'm guessing that's right, as Ed measured the same model with a ruler as about 13mm.

You know what it's like when you want to buy something - I really want to place and order with Thomas, but I really need to know the thickness, and preferably from Thomas.


----------



## dantan

Very nice! I am seriously considering purchasing one of these.


----------



## fastfras

I own a HKED version, it has the display back (why anyone would purchase this watch without the display amazes me, it's beautiful), and the high acrylic crystal. It measures at 14.4mm. I measure a Sinn 356 with a sapphire crystal to compare, 13.5mm. The 356 in question does NOT have a display caseback nor of course the higher acrylic crystal.

While not questioning No-fi's claim of 11mm, one loses the original look of the watch with the lower profile crystal and, not seeing the movement is, in my opinion, a shame.


----------



## fastfras

dantan said:


> Very nice! I am seriously considering purchasing one of these.


DT: You'll love it, punches far above it's class. Go for the 38mm, perfect for smaller wrist sizes.


----------



## Triggaaar

fastfras said:


> I own a HKED version, it has the display back (why anyone would purchase this watch without the display amazes me, it's beautiful)


The main reason I'm thinking of the solid case back is because it's thinner. 99.9% of the time it will be seen on the wrist. People will see me wearing the watch, they won't see the back, and I'm not going to bore all of them with the look of the movement (I would of course bore some of them  )

The other reason for having the solid case back is that it's true to the original, and since this is a copy of a historic watch, that means something.

Of course I agree that it would be nice to see the movement.


> It measures at 14.4mm.


Oh blimey, another number to add to the possible size of this watch 



> While not questioning No-fi's claim of 11mm, one loses the original look of the watch with the lower profile crystal and, not seeing the movement is, in my opinion, a shame.


He doesn't have the low profile crystal, he has the domed acrylic (see images in first post), and with the solid case back his should look more like the original.


----------



## gak

I dont think any of the reissue is an exact copy of older models, there is always a little difference. I would consider them as they are i.e reissues instead of referring to them as copy or replica. As said earlier you cant go wrong with 38mm doomed arcylic. 11mm I think is a typo error from Seagull marketing material, probably they didnt included the height of doom.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Triggaaar

gak said:


> I dont think any of the reissue is an exact copy of older models, there is always a little difference. I would consider them as they are i.e reissues instead of referring to them as copy or replica.


I don't think it can be called a reissue if it's not specifically from Seagull though. Only they can reissue something they originally issued, I can't.


----------



## gak

Triggaaar said:


> I don't think it can be called a reissue if it's not specifically from Seagull though. Only they can reissue something they originally issued, I can't.


That is exactly what they did and re-issued these FKJBs from Seagull's Tianjin watch factory. There is Seagull Tsinlien and Seagull HK etc which also produce other variants.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Triggaaar

gak said:


> That is exactly what they did and re-issued these FKJBs from Seagull's Tianjin watch factory.


Yeah I know, sorry I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying all 1963s should be called reissues, but I guess you just mean the ones direct from Seagull.


----------



## no-fi

gak said:


> I can only assume that 11mm is only the height of the case excluding arcylic doom.





gak said:


> 11mm I think is a typo error from Seagull marketing material, probably they didnt included the height of doom.


This is indeed correct. I (wrongly) relied on the manufacturers specs, which turned out to be incorrect. I just measured my watch with a ruler and it is about 11mm tall without the crystal, and about 13.5mm with the domed acrylic.

I'll go back and edit my previous posts to reflect this.

In other news, Ed kindly sent me one of his ED1963 watches for review. I'll be posting pics and a full review in a few days, so watch this space!


----------



## Triggaaar

Triggaaar said:


> Hi no-fi
> 
> I read the spec of the FKJB which says it's 11mm thick, but is that really correct? I ask because Thomas (who sells versions of the 1963, and is the man responsible for the original 1963 re-issue) says his 38mm versions are 15.5mm thick. They also have the domed crystal, they use the same movement, etc etc, so I can't understand why the FKJB is so much thinner.
> 
> Would you be able to check for me please?
> 
> Many thanks
> Trig





no-fi said:


> The FKJB is 11mm. I can't help any further, sorry.





no-fi said:


> This is indeed correct. I (wrongly) relied on the manufacturers specs, which turned out to be incorrect. I just measured my watch with a ruler and it is about 11mm tall without the crystal, and about 13.5mm with the domed acrylic.


I said in my original post that the FKJB specs say it's 11mm, and I asked if you could check for me as it didn't seem right. If you haven't got time, no worries, but don't reply saying that's it's 11mm when you didn't even check. People make buying decisions based on the measurements.


----------



## no-fi

Triggaaar said:


> I said in my original post that the FKJB specs say it's 11mm, and I asked if you could check for me as it didn't seem right. If you haven't got time, no worries, but don't reply saying that's it's 11mm when you didn't even check. People make buying decisions based on the measurements.


Whoa, easy there buddy. You asked if I could check, not if I could measure my watch. I did check the specs and get back to you. When more questions were raised, I got out the ruler. Maybe if you'd asked me to measure my watch I could have done so sooner.


----------



## Triggaaar

no-fi said:


> Whoa, easy there buddy. You asked if I could check, not if I could measure my watch. I did check the specs and get back to you.


You misunderstood. I said what the specs said and asked if the specs were correct. Then again in my next post I said "I thought perhaps the FKJB was incorrectly specified as 11mm, but do you think that's right?" and you replied to say the FKJB was 11mm.



> When more questions were raised, I got out the ruler. Maybe if you'd asked me to measure my watch I could have done so sooner.


I know you weren't trying to mislead anyone, that goes without saying, but it was obvious what I was asking.


----------



## gak

no-fi said:


> This is indeed correct. I (wrongly) relied on the manufacturers specs, which turned out to be incorrect. I just measured my watch with a ruler and it is about 11mm tall without the crystal, and about 13.5mm with the domed acrylic.
> 
> I'll go back and edit my previous posts to reflect this.
> 
> In other news, Ed kindly sent me one of his ED1963 watches for review. I'll be posting pics and a full review in a few days, so watch this space!


Apprecitate your efforts, this is by far the best review of FKJB. Will be waiting for your review of ED1963.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Petrolicious88

I recently purchased a Seagull 1963 with the exact same configuration as yours. However, the watch is very light, weighing only about 55 grams with the nato straps. How much does yours weigh? I'm not sure if I purchased a fake as there are so many different versions and counterfeits out there.


----------



## gak

Petrolicious88 said:


> I recently purchased a Seagull 1963 with the exact same configuration as yours. However, the watch is very light, weighing only about 55 grams with the nato straps. How much does yours weigh? I'm not sure if I purchased a fake as there are so many different versions and counterfeits out there.


Where did you purchased from?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## no-fi

Petrolicious88 said:


> I recently purchased a Seagull 1963 with the exact same configuration as yours. However, the watch is very light, weighing only about 55 grams with the nato straps. How much does yours weigh? I'm not sure if I purchased a fake as there are so many different versions and counterfeits out there.


This isn't a heavy watch. That said, I haven't weighed it so I wouldn't know if 55g is right.

I'm with gak - where did you buy it? A legit seller like seagullwatchstore.com would not sell a fake. A random store on eBay is another proposition entirely...


----------



## Petrolicious88

no-fi said:


> This isn't a heavy watch. That said, I haven't weighed it so I wouldn't know if 55g is right.
> 
> I'm with gak - where did you buy it? A legit seller like seagullwatchstore.com would not sell a fake. A random store on eBay is another proposition entirely...


The watch was purchased from WatchUnique.


----------



## gak

Petrolicious88 said:


> The watch was purchased from WatchUnique.


Seller you mentioned do not seem to sell exact same version reviewed here i.e fkjb. I currently have mine on a leather strap so will try to weigh it on next strap change. I bought my version directly from a seagull store in Shanghai.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## no-fi

And as promised, here's my review of hked's ED1963 reissue. Enjoy!


----------



## dantan

Thanks for a good review of a nice Chronograph!


----------



## Lokvo

I can't believe how quickly the 1963 has entered my field of purchase. I'm just kind of lost as to which particular version to buy (fkjb, ed, thomas) and from which source; long island watches or the seagull store recommended in this thread. I mean where do you even buy an ed or hked version from? A shade of apprehension as entered my mind about it all, last thing I want is a fugazi 1963.


----------



## taike

Lokvo said:


> ... I mean where do you even buy an ed or hked version from?...


from hked. PM or email him



hked said:


> Please email me [email protected] and I'll forward photos and prices of what is available.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lokvo

Much appreciated taike! I wasn't aware that the term 'hked' etc referenced a WUS forum member lol.


----------



## hked

Lokvo said:


> I can't believe how quickly the 1963 has entered my field of purchase. I'm just kind of lost as to which particular version to buy (fkjb, ed, thomas) and from which source; long island watches or the seagull store recommended in this thread. I mean where do you even buy an ed or hked version from? A shade of apprehension as entered my mind about it all, last thing I want is a fugazi 1963.


Yes, that was my experience when I bought my first 1963 back in 2011. Search for reputable sellers that sell the model you like most and go from there. To tell you the truth, Sea-Gull didn't sell or even acknowledge the existence of the 1963 until recently. A reputable seller will provide you with excellent after-sales service that shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg if you run into trouble down the road.


----------



## Lokvo

Thanks hked! I'll pm you about a possible 1963 purchase then


----------



## hked

Lokvo said:


> Thanks hked! I'll pm you about a possible 1963 purchase then


It will be faster if you email me directly [email protected]. Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JSal

hked said:


> Yes, that was my experience when I bought my first 1963 back in 2011. Search for reputable sellers that sell the model you like most and go from there. To tell you the truth, Sea-Gull didn't sell or even acknowledge the existence of the 1963 until recently. A reputable seller will provide you with excellent after-sales service that shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg if you run into trouble down the road.


You have been such a great help to me Ed in just this same thing. I have contacted Thomas and we are working on getting an order for a 1963 together. He is just a little hard to understand but we get by.

Like I said, once I receive the one from Thomas I will be in touch with you for the ones from you.

Thanks again for all you help and sharing of knowledge. 
John


----------



## hked

You're welcome John and looking forward to hearing from you again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JSal

Thanks Ed. You are a highly valuable person to this forum.

Your knowledge, services, kindness, and willingness to assist others is top flight.


----------



## floydthebarber71

I just got mine delivered today after months (years?) of deliberation and research. The 38mm version with acrylic.

First impressions are that it is real tiny. I have very skinny wrists already (just over 6"), and I've always read that this watch wears a bit larger than 38mm, but it's really small on my wrist :/ I have a Seiko SNK809 which is also 38mm, but that does appear larger somehow. I think the style would be more suited to a 40mm size and 20mm strap, but I know that is not historically accurate...

I hope I'll get used to it! It's a very nice dial!


----------



## gak

Johohnn5 said:


> What a nice review, I almost ignored the discounted price of 350$ compared to what I paid almost double in Shanghai . I have also not taken it off much. My only wish is if they had better water rating


Exactly how I got it and I second your thought, price difference is huge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## asrael

Sorry folks I know this is a really old thread but wonder if the owners are still happy with their FKJB

I have been looking for one lately and gotta say congrats to those who got the official FKJB from Seagull a couple of years ago...............these are still available on the market from ADs but they are now selling for somewhere between $900 to $1000 now, no discount negotiable...........


----------



## gak

asrael said:


> Sorry folks I know this is a really old thread but wonder if the owners are still happy with their FKJB
> 
> I have been looking for one lately and gotta say congrats to those who got the official FKJB from Seagull a couple of years ago...............these are still available on the market from ADs but they are now selling for somewhere between $900 to $1000 now, no discount negotiable...........


I am quite happy with FKJB. Had to send it back to Tianjin for winding issue and it came back even more smoother.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TodaysTime

The variations in these watches will make your head spin. Is there a definitive list of all the current 1963 variants and the various options to buy from?


----------



## sweat100

Anywhere I can buy the FKJB edition now? I can't seem to find any at http://www.seagullwatchstore.com


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

sweat100 said:


> Anywhere I can buy the FKJB edition now? I can't seem to find any at SEAGULL WATCH


I sent you a PM but I forgot that forum member Kevin also has the Limited Edition Sea-Gull 1963:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.67.13a4195fca2Psk

FYI, I called Tianjin Sea-Gull and they could not confrim that seagullwatchstore is an AD for them. The official Sea-Gull store can be found here:
https://www.sea-gullmall.com/index.html


----------



## fallingtitan

Monkey_like_watch said:


> I sent you a PM but I forgot that forum member Kevin also has the Limited Edition Sea-Gull 1963:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.67.13a4195fca2Psk
> 
> FYI, I called Tianjin Sea-Gull and they could not confrim that seagullwatchstore is an AD for them. The official Sea-Gull store can be found here:
> https://www.sea-gullmall.com/index.html


is there an english version for the official site?


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

fallingtitan said:


> is there an english version for the official site?


No. Because the official Sea-Gull mall is for China mainland purchases only. (if you want know more about a specific watch then use Google Chrome and adjust the translation to "automatically translate Chinese to English" for web pages.)

TBH, it appears to me that Tianjin Sea-Gull is only interested in marketing in China; with over one billion customers they seem to be just fine selling their watches in the mainland.

As a work-around, I would contact an AD like Kevin at EOL if you were looking for a specific Sea-Gull watch. I am sure he could act as a middleman to procure a specific watch from the official mall if you found one you liked that wasn't available through other avenues. 
Another option would be to use Jingdong's global site(joybuy) and buy a Sea-Gull there (76 men's automatic watches show up on this search):
https://www.joybuy.com/search?bucke...egory=875062461&filterTypes=expand,redisstore


----------



## TodaysTime

I still don't get who makes what. Are the Seagull 1963's sold by WatchUnique actually made by Seagull?


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

TodaysTime said:


> I still don't get who makes what. Are the Seagull 1963's sold by WatchUnique actually made by Seagull?


This thread might give you some insight:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/auth...factory-seagull-1963-304-watches-4867821.html


----------



## TudorGMT20

no-fi said:


> The Sea-Gull 1963 military chronograph has become one of the most iconic and collectible Chinese mechanical watches, and for good reason. But I also think it deserves to be seen as one of the most iconic 20th century military watches from anywhere in the world - it's up there with the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, Rolex Submariner, Vostok Amphibia and Omega Speedmaster in terms of its importance to the military it was designed for. Simply put, the 1963 was a landmark tool watch and a design classic.
> 
> The problem for collectors nowadays is that so few of the original Sea-Gull 1963 were ever made - there were only a handful of prototypes, and later only 1700 production models (some sources say only 1400). Fortunately, reissues of the 1963 began to emerge within the last decade. There are now a variety of versions available from different sellers, both reputable and shady, with a variety of different specs - 38mm or 42mm cases; or acrylic, mineral or sapphire crystals. Choosing a legitimate, original and historically accurate reissue is a difficult exercise, however, especially for a beginner. One need only look at other threads to see how much confusion is out there.
> 
> The good news is that the Sea-Gull 1963 reissue is now stocked by what I consider to be the most trusted online source for genuine Sea-Gull watches, www.seagullwatchstore.com. As I mentioned in my review of the Sea-Gull designer series tourbillon, they have recently negotiated a deal with the Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Company to offer steep discounts on Sea-Gull 1963 and D304 chronograph watches, exclusively to foreign markets. The 1963 reissue is currently on sale for a competitive US$350.
> 
> View attachment 8075762
> 
> 
> Firstly, a little history. The Chinese government first commissioned a chronograph watch for pilots in the People's Liberation Army Air Force in 1961. The development contract was awarded to the Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Company, and was code-named Project 304. Sea-Gull based their first chronograph movement, the ST19, on the Swiss-made Venus 175 movement. Whereas the Swiss movement had 17 jewels, the Chinese movement used 19, 21, 22 or even 23 jewels. A number of prototypes were made, and the watch was finally certified for military use and put into production in 1965. Fewer than 2000 prototype and production models were ever made.
> 
> There are two main reissues of the Project 304 military watch - one based on the 1963 prototype, and the other based on the D304 production model. This review is of the Sea-Gull 1963 FKJB reissue. The FKJB stands for Fu Ke Jun Biao (复刻军表 in Chinese), which in English translates to Military Watch Reissue.
> 
> The FKJB is among the most historically accurate of all the Sea-Gull 1963 reissues. The original watch came in a 37mm brass case plated in nickel; the FKJB comes in a similarly sized 38mm case. The key difference is that the FKJB's case has been upgraded to much more durable 316L premium stainless steel, while retaining the original shape and finish. And, importantly, the size is right - while the 40mm and 42mm reissues may appeal to today's tastes, they're simply not accurate. The FKJB is the real deal.
> 
> View attachment 8075826
> 
> 
> The case is nicely finished to Sea-Gull's typically high standard. It's entirely mirror-polished, which is a point of difference for a military watch - most field and pilot's watches these days tend to have blasted or brushed finishes. The two chronograph pushers and the large, hand-winding crown are also nicely finished. Water resistance is adequate at 30m.
> 
> The FKJB stands an impressive 11mm tall (without the crystal) or about 13.5mm tall with the bubble-domed acrylic crystal - another historically accurate touch. While mineral and sapphire crystals are more in line with modern tastes, they lack the vintage charm of domed acrylic, which really stands out and makes the dial pop. Acrylic is also very shatter-resistant, and while it scratches more easily than mineral or sapphire, it's also much easier to buff any scratches out. I also love the way the domed crystal distorts the hands and dial when viewed from very acute angles.
> 
> View attachment 8075834
> 
> 
> The simple case back is the only part of the case with any finishing or ornamentation - it is brushed with concentric circles, and engraved with minimal text and the Red Star of the People's Liberation Army. It's nicely done.
> 
> View attachment 8075842
> 
> 
> The dial and hands are the real stars of the show. The dial is a gorgeous finely-speckled champagne colour that constantly shifts and changes with each movement of the wrist - it can be silver, beige or gold, depending on the angle and intensity of the light. The dial colour beautifully contrasts and complements the applied gold-tone Arabic numerals and indices, as well as the gold rimmed Red Star below 12 o'clock. The chronograph seconds are marked out in fine black printed indices around the edge of the dial. There are two subdials - one at 9 o'clock, which is the small seconds dial, and another at 3 o'clock, which marks elapsed minutes on the chronograph, up to half an hour.
> 
> View attachment 8075922
> 
> 
> The hands are simply stunning. The heat-treated blue hour and minute hands are the perfect lengths for at-a-glance legibility, and they reflect light wonderfully. The subdials also have blue hands, with attractive spade counterweights. They all contrast nicely with the red chronograph second hand, which sits at 12 o'clock when not in use, and gracefully traces the edge of the dial when in use.
> 
> The ST1901 movement is a joy to use. Hand-winding on the big crown is easy, smooth and responsive, with just the right amount of give when it is fully wound. The movement is true to its 40 hour reserve rating, and keeps good time, within 15 seconds a day. The top pusher at 2 o'clock starts and stops the chrono. It has just the right amount of give to remind you this is a mechanical chrono, and its action is instantaneous. The bottom pusher at 4 o'clock is a similar story - it instantly snaps the chrono second hand back to place with just the right amount of pressure. This is a well-made movement, and you can really feel that you're using a mechanical chrono. It helps that, in quiet settings, you can hear the watch ticking away.
> 
> The FKJB has 18mm lugs and comes on a Nato-style one-piece nylon strap in a fetching military-beige colour. It's a high quality strap that suits the watch perfectly.
> 
> View attachment 8076002
> 
> 
> On the wrist, the FKJB is the perfect size. It's not so large that it won't fit smaller wrists, like mine, but it's also not too small. It's functional, toolish and undeniably masculine. And it looks great.
> 
> View attachment 8076018
> 
> 
> The bubble-domed crystal gives the watch real presence, but it doesn't look out of proportion. The only potential drawback is that it could be hard to fit under shirtsleeves - but that shouldn't be an issue, because this is a watch to be worn casually.
> 
> View attachment 8076026
> 
> 
> Or is it? I tried it on a nice brown leather strap to see if it would work as an office watch.
> 
> View attachment 8076034
> 
> 
> I'll leave it for you to judge whether it works. But if you ask me, it's pure class.
> 
> View attachment 8076050
> 
> 
> On a two-piece strap, it fits even more snugly on the wrist than on the stock Nato.
> 
> View attachment 8076058
> 
> 
> And check out how the dial changes colour in different light.
> 
> View attachment 8076066
> 
> 
> There are plenty of other strap options over at this thread, but honestly, you can't really go wrong with the stock strap.
> 
> If you've been thinking about getting a Sea-Gull 1963, I can't recommend the FKJB from www.seagullwatchstore.com enough. You can be assured it's genuine, and it's among the most historically accurate. Put simply, it's a great watch. I've scarcely taken it off since I got it. It's that good.


It was a great deal for $350. U.S. Now they are $560. (on sale). Uh, no.


----------

