# Would you call this "95% near mint. No issues."



## MZhammer (Feb 27, 2009)

So, after a long period of indecision I decided to make the leap to a Lange 1. I love many different models but the 101.022 spoke to me in a way that most other contemporary models did not. I found a good condition model from a reseller with lots of feedback on here and TRF (who I will refrain from naming here) and paid for the watch. The watch was listed as "95% near mint. No issues."

I patiently awaited the watch and, when I finally unboxed it, I was pretty disappointed to see clear scratches on the movement. Additionally, the watch wound like the movement was gummed up (despite keeping accurate time) and was unlike any Lange I've ever handled. I quickly reached out to Alkis for counsel and he said the scratches could only be fixed by Lange in Germany, not by him, and may require an entirely new base plate.

I sent the watch back, paying for shipping both ways assuming the seller had simply overlooked the damage but sold the watch in good faith. I was was disappointed to subsequently see the watch relisted with the exact same description. When I reached out to the dealer mentioning that he was still listing it as No Issues, despite being shown there were, I was told that we simply had a different opinion of what that meant.

_Am I being overly sensitive here? _
To me, this hardly seems like 95% for a watch of this caliber and the listing practices seem misleading.

Artificial Light:















Natural Light:


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## TJMike (Jan 30, 2014)

You are not being overly sensitive. From the photos and what you describe it is not even close to being near mint.


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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

Agreed. Also, I'd be concerned (especially with your description of winding) that someone serviced/repaired it at some point who wasn't up to the task. I can't believe those scratches would have made it past ALS quality inspection coming out of the factory.


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## MZhammer (Feb 27, 2009)

mlcor said:


> Agreed. Also, I'd be concerned (especially with your description of winding) that someone serviced/repaired it at some point who wasn't up to the task. I can't believe those scratches would have made it past ALS quality inspection coming out of the factory.


That was the same conclusion that I, Alkis and my Lange collector friend whom I consulted all came to as well. No way this was worked on by Lange and the winding was very likely indicative of other problems awaiting the new owner.


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## Ron521 (Feb 20, 2014)

"95%" and "near mint" are mutually exclusive. If the watch is described using the term "near mint" I would expect better than 99% perfect.


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## wintershade (Jun 15, 2017)

MZhammer said:


> _Am I being overly sensitive here? _
> To me, this hardly seems like 95% for a watch of this caliber and the listing practices seem misleading.


Yes, definitely misleading. I'd be pissed. What a run around and hassle. Who is the seller? You should out them. This is bad behavior and spooks relative noobs like me from buying preowned.


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## shotm92 (Apr 22, 2016)

The ends of those lugs do not look anywhere "near mint" either.


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## OSUMBA2003 (Jan 1, 2012)

Looks like someone really hacked on that base plate.

There's no way servicing on that was done at Lange. Seems like somebody hired the local less-than-qualified hack to do...whatever was done.

It's definitely not 95%, and you were in your right mind to return it.

In the seller's new listing, is the base plate well photographed? It's possible some creative photography was done to hide the obvious flaws.


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## gegarrenton (Dec 31, 2015)

I would out the seller. That is a joke.


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## Vicc (Jul 30, 2010)

The crooks in New York sell "near mint" watches in better condition.


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## dantan (Dec 16, 2014)

Sorry to hear of your poor experience of such a beautiful Watch.

Hopefully, this bad experience will not leave too lasting a bad taste in your mouth.

I would be terribly disappointed with such an experience.

In my opinion, that is nowhere near 95% condition or mint condition.

At best, I would say that might be 70%.


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## luckyjoe (Oct 28, 2017)

Those marks show someone has been in the watch who should not be in any watch.

I think this is far worse than external cosmetic issue caused by use.

Who know whats else is wrong that you cant see!


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## luckyjoe (Oct 28, 2017)

Watch this






From here, but the whole video is relevant.


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## ghoatson (Feb 29, 2012)

That sucks man =/ Pretty scammy for sure.


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## aelb771 (Jun 3, 2015)

I would also like to know who the seller is, you’d be doing a favor to those of us who may unknowingly purchase from him in the future 


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## gengar (Feb 16, 2018)

wintershade said:


> Yes, definitely misleading. I'd be pissed. What a run around and hassle. Who is the seller? You should out them. This is bad behavior and spooks relative noobs like me from buying preowned.


Agreed 100% - every time I see a thread like this where there is no resolution, it turns me off from preowned - and makes me think twice about collecting watches in general, TBH.


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## Dancing Fire (Aug 16, 2011)

95% near garbage!!..Mickey Mouse worked on this watch!!. no way in hell the watch came out looking like this from the factory!..<|o|


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## CGTHREE (Dec 28, 2016)

it this was worked on by lange it would have come back looking like a new piece. They're meticulous and actually assemble each piece and take it apart and reassemble again to doubly check everything before sending out.


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## mr2manycars (Sep 10, 2016)

Out the seller or you might as well have titled this thread "some watch dealers are scumbags" and closed it after your original post.


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## GregNYC (Mar 4, 2006)

I’m just glad you were able to return the watch and get your money back!!!


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## vercimber (Jul 28, 2016)

I need to know who this is.


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## bigfatpauli (Dec 1, 2012)

If that seller considers that 95%, I would hate to see what they consider 90%... The fact that the scratches are on the movement, as others have pointed out, likely indicates that someone was in there who really should not have been and the ramifications of that are lurking.

I'l glad to hear that the seller took it back; that's at least one redeeming quality.


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## MarkieB (Feb 25, 2017)

I have a pair of shoes that are Mint (assuming you mean Polo Mint as they have a hole in them!)


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## WatchHound007 (Dec 12, 2009)

Certainly not "mint". I would expect a pristine example with barely any signs of use for "mint condition". I would worry about what else the person responsible for those scratches did to the movement. I would have returned it and demanded that the seller pay shipping, imho.


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## DeepBlue1 (Jan 3, 2018)

does not look near mint to me


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## barihunk (Jul 2, 2012)

Agreed that this does not even come close to 90% let alone 95%. Scary. Another vote for outing the scammy dealer.


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## spclEd (Aug 18, 2015)

Ron521 said:


> "95%" and "near mint" are mutually exclusive. If the watch is described using the term "near mint" I would expect better than 99% perfect.


Totally agree, MINT MEANS MINT, end of story. To me when the word 'Mint' is used it means the product is in "MINT CONDITION", PERIOD, no flaws anywhere. Only BNIB is higher. There are NO other qualifiers necessary when you declare 'MINT', that's it. Anything else requires qualifiers, i.e.; Excellent - 99.999%, very nice - 98%, etc. followed by what ding, scratch, mark, combination of issues, etc. removes the MINT condition moniker and thus yields to the 99%, 98%, 95%, or less rating system that in your opinion justifies the other than mint description. Then there is room for both parties to come to a meeting of the minds on exactly what issues raise or lower the products value.

NEAR MINT, MINTY, NEARLY MINT are misleading marketing terms and should not be used if you are in fact a reputable seller/dealer. When I see 'Minty' in a description I am gone to the next one. In my opinion there is no reasonsing with an unreasonable and/or misleading description.


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

No sir. I would not.

I had a similar situation just about two years ago. I bought a Panerai...100% with factory warranty. Pictures were good enough, and the view of the watch face showed the silicon protector still in place. When the watch arrived, I unboxed it and started going over it. When I removed the protector, I saw a multiple abrasions on the bezel that no one could miss. I notified the seller and he took the return and issued a full refund. The watch was relisted a couple of days later, again as 100%! That is when I left poor feedback. If he hadn't relisted in a manner to mislead someone else and had just disclosed the true condition going forward, I probably would have given him the benefit of the doubt and just not left any feedback at all. As it turns out, the watch still hasn't sold and the seller even raised the price! However, this seller hasn't made a sale since. Check it out. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Officine-Panerai-Luminor-GMT-Automatic-Acciaio-PAM00088-PAM-088-100/252318131403?hash=item3abf5524cb:g:LVQAAOSwpDdVBH6F It is a shame these things happen. I empathize with you.


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## Spanner goana (Apr 1, 2018)

I ha d a similar issue with a Patek 3919 which was being sold as Mint by a very reputable USA based dealer until I asked for clearer pictures of the dial and pointed out it looked scratched, fair play to them they afpgreed and removed it from sale shortly thereafter, however it begs the question as to quality control and accuracy of listings


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## Spanner goana (Apr 1, 2018)

I ha d a similar issue with a Patek 3919 which was being sold as Mint by a very reputable USA based dealer until I asked for clearer pictures of the dial and pointed out it looked scratched, fair play to them they afpgreed and removed it from sale shortly thereafter, however it begs the question as to quality control and accuracy of listings


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## Blackrain (Apr 4, 2007)

If you are not going to out the seller on this thread, I think a review in the "Watch Deals, Feedback, and Reputation" is clearly indicated, to protect your fellow WUS bretheren!


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## PJitz (Feb 14, 2016)

I would be incredibly upset to waste my time let alone wire money to this seller. As others have said, please tell us who this seller is so we can avoid them


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