# Considering a Watch Winder



## SwissArmyTenor

I've currently got 3 automatics, and don't really mind keeping them wound. But as my collection progresses I'm considering an automatic watch winder - especially since I'm looking at buying a watch or two that cannot be wound using the crown. 

I've just started looking around, and saw some single winders for around $40, and doubles as low as $60-$80. Don't want to go cheap, but don't want to spend more than I need to in order to get a solid item that will do the job. 

Any thoughts such re: solid brands, etc..., would be great. For some reason I don't see myself spending over $200 on something like this, but this is a new subject for me, there's a lot I'm sure I don't know, and need to collect more info before making any buying decisions.

Thanks!


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## Watchbreath

For the most part, there're a waste.


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## Ard

I have one and occasionally use it if I've been wearing my moon phase watch. I think they are good if you have watches such as moon phase and triple date complications so you don't need to reset everything for a days use. One thing I've noticed is that any watch, even those which are carefully adjusted to my wear pattern by myself with aid of a time graph tend to gain time on a winder. I'd like one that has a wide range of rotational choices rather than mine which has just three modes. Any of the three seem to wind things tighter than the watches are used to.

Mine is one of the fake wood burl doubles that sell for around fifty dollars via eBay. I always worry that winders can transmit a magnetic charge to my watches as a result of the motors............... just something to think about. 

I probably wouldn't buy too many watches that couldn't be manually wound, but that's just me.


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## wsbarr

I would tread on the side of caution here with this one. I have read many threads where someone has had an issue with a watch and come to find out that the winder has basically worn down the clutch that prevents the watch from over-winding. Essentially the clutch "slips" when the watch is fully wound to prevent the mainspring from being over-wound. When a watch is on the winder it can be wound fully and then the clutch is in a constant state of "slipping" and eventually the gears that catch it are worn down to the point of non-existence. Now that being said this is kind of a worst scenario kind of thing but still something I have seen cause quite a few people issues with. At the end of the day its your decision but this is just one perspective on winders and what they do/can do.


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## osamu

I've heard the more expensive ones are quieter, so just maybe something to keep in mind if you plan on having it next to your bed.

i have a single wolf winder, next to my bed, and barely ever notice it. I kinda like having one watch ready to go, but to be honest, usually it doesn't see too much use. I used to put my beater (SKX) in there over the weekend so I wouldn't have to reset it when I would wear something different on the weekends.


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## Midoman

Noob here. Just popped in to see what the advice would be. Heard all I need to hear. Done. Thanks guys.


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## StephenCanale

Winders are sort of like watches, you can spend a little, a lot, or an outright fortune.

Costs will vary, based on quality, number of stations and features.

A cheap winder will work, much like the $19 Chinese automatic watch for sale on Amazon that I ordered just to have something to take apart as a learning experience.

More money will get you:


Better motors that will last longer, and run much quieter.
. 
Stations that can be independently set, so that each station can be turned on/off and use its own program.
. 
Programs that can wind Clockwise, CCW or bi-directional.
. 
Many more options for setting the Turns Per Day as well as delayed starting (since a watch doesn't normally need winding coming right off your wrist).
. 
LCD displays making it much easier to manage all of these functions. 
 Wolf is a popular brand but not cheap, their 6 station winder with LCD commonly sells for $1,400 (but occasionally can be had for a few hundred less) and other decent winders can be had for probably half that if you lose the LCD and extra features.

Anything less than that might serve you well for years or might crap out in 18 months... who knows, it's a crap-shoot.

Spending a significantly more is similar to any luxury item, the quality likely goes up, but it might not actually deliver much more in terms of performance.

PS: As for any fear of over-winding your watch, that's probably not possible with a quality timepiece, and it's certainly not going to happen if you set the Turns-Per-Day correctly.


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## wilfreb

StephenCanale said:


> Winders are sort of like watches, you can spend a little, a lot, or an outright fortune.
> 
> Costs will vary, based on quality, number of stations and features.
> 
> A cheap winder will work, much like the $19 Chinese automatic watch for sale on Amazon that I ordered just to have something to take apart as a learning experience.
> 
> More money will get you:
> 
> 
> Better motors that will last longer, and run much quieter.
> .
> Stations that can be independently set, so that each station can be turned on/off and use its own program.
> .
> Programs that can wind Clockwise, CCW or bi-directional.
> .
> Many more options for setting the Turns Per Day as well as delayed starting (since a watch doesn't normally need winding coming right off your wrist).
> .
> LCD displays making it much easier to manage all of these functions.
> Wolf is a popular brand but not cheap, their 6 station winder with LCD commonly sells for $1,400 (but occasionally can be had for a few hundred less) and other decent winders can be had for probably half that if you lose the LCD and extra features.
> 
> Anything less than that might serve you well for years or might crap out in 18 months... who knows, it's a crap-shoot.
> 
> Spending a significantly more is similar to any luxury item, the quality likely goes up, but it might not actually deliver much more in terms of performance.
> 
> PS: As for any fear of over-winding your watch, that's probably not possible with a quality timepiece, and it's certainly not going to happen if you set the Turns-Per-Day correctly.


I also was wondering getting one, and everyone said it was a waste, but I really wanted one because I hate having to set my watches every time I was going to wear them, so I got one from Amazon, and I couldn't be happier, glad I did, now my watches are always ready to go.

Mine is a Versa dual watch winder, and works great.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Gepetto82

I've had a Scatola Del Tempo 3 watch winder (with 4 watch storage on top of the winder) for about a year now. Got it on eBay for about $600. Flawless operation, it has many adjustments you can make, and it's very quiet. The main thing is to put the watch in there when it's not fully wound. Ideally maybe only 25% wound or so. Then the clutch won't wear out. And check out what the settings are for your particular watches on how many rotations they need to remain running when you place it in a winder about 25-50% tension. I keep mine on the lowest possible setting (I think 500 rotations per day) and it works on my watches just fine.


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## falcon4311

They are not a waste, especially if you have watches that won't hand wind. It also keeps your watch set to the correct time which means you aren't unscrewing and screwing down your crown which is one of the most frequently replaced parts on a watch. When I take one watch out I put the third to be worn at the end so it builds up some reserve when it comes time to wear the watch.

Unless you are using a high speed drill to wind your watch, I wouldn't worry, a winder won't damage your watch. The TPD can be adjusted to rest for longer periods so the clutch watch isn't at risk. I'm willing to bet that even on max TPD it wouldn't damage the watch. Quality winders are a far cry from what they used to be. I've been using them for years and years.


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## morewatchesthanmoney

Great question, and it baffled me at first, so I did my own research on it, as best I could, and determined that they are not a risk to the watch, any more than normal use at least, and, once I owned a lot of automatics, it was pretty essential to have winders, to keep the times and dates current. I started with a single Wolf, for my first "real" Swiss watch, my beloved Certina DS Action Diver. Both winder and watch have been running flawlessly for many years now. 

With cost (and space!) being a factor (the Wolf ones can be kind of bulky), I began to look at other options, since adding a three hundred plus bucks to every purchase seemed frustrating, so I tried a number of brands, all under two hundred dollars -- many of them less than a hundred. Belocia, Versa, Heiden, and Boxy. Got most of them at buywatchwinders.com, which has sales and coupons now and again, although I got others through Amazon. Tried one cheapo "hand made" one, Chyoda or something, and it has been frustrating, crummy settings, lousy pillow to hold the watch, and I was not impressed with that one. 

The Boxy ones, because they took up the least space, I took a shot with their cheap plastic "cube" (single winder) model which can stack or be made into a modular kind of set up, and they had issues, when being stacked, namely the power would not get to the top one (they use a set of electrical contacts where, when stacked together, the one winder powers the others), but single, or even double stacked, they work fine. I actually dropped all three winders at one point, and all of them broke into pieces -- cleanly, mind you, which was nice -- and I put them back together and two of the three still ran fine, so that was impressive. As winders go, with their fake "carbon fiber" front and submarine bubble plastic cover, they are not very attractive, but they do the job. 

Boxy later came out with the Boxy Castle series, both in single and double (I think they have a quad, as well), and those became my favorites. Hardwood, nice finish, can go dark or chestnut for the wood, real glass hinged doors, great holder for the watch, plus the option of using the built-in interior LED lighting, and a huge range of settings from which to choose, for any TPD set up. Those are probably my favorite, although they are harder to find now, it seems. Buywatchwinders.com has only two in stock. A shame, because they were great winders for a great price. 

The Heiden brand also are not too bad, but don't use glass, the holders are not quite as nice, no lighting, but they work just fine, have enough TPD options, and look decent and that's been my second "go to" brand. Their "Prestige" series was similar to the Boxy Castle, but again they no longer seem to be selling that product line, although the other Heidens are still readily available. Their new Monaco one is pretty nice. I have one of those, and it looks attractive and performs well. 

Mostly, you just want to have be sure it has the options you need for TPD, and a good set up to hold the watch (Belocia was not so good with that) and a reputable motor (preferably shielded). I've had all of mine for many years now, and they all are still going strong, none have become noisy, none have quit working, and a few I actually run off of battery where there wasn't a convenient power outlet, so that's a nice option to have. 

They all look decent enough, nothing as fancy as Orbita or any mega-priced ones, but I got them for function, more than form. It certainly beats having to set your watches all the time, or stay up on keeping them wound, at least for me.


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## islands62

I have a two head Orbita which has been in continuous use for nearly 15 years and without problem. It’s quiet, but does rumble a bit, so I have it on a timer that shuts it off between 10pm and 2am. I also have a dual head Elma, which is a German brand and has a bit easier programming screen (the Orbita uses dip switches). The Elma is a bit louder but is beautifully made, and in fact provides wonders to Buben and Zorweg. As much as I love my watches, winding a dozen of them each night is not really something I would relish.


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## frozenotter

I've had a few "mid line" models and they all either broke or rumble. It's really a mystery to me because it's such a "brainless" mechanism that could easily be designed to run for many many years. I never had it in me to cut into "watch dollars" to buy an "expensive" one. They may be better.?? I heard of one that came with a PP that was crapping out too, so who really know. 

I do know that if my "mid line" crapped out that you probably don't stand a chance with a lower cost unit.


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## StufflerMike

If you think you need one make sure you can set it to the specs of your watches (TPD).


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## SwissArmyTenor

Thanks, everyone - this has been a GREAT help!


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## mitar98

I read somewhere that you can put a winder on a programmable switch and that way set how often you want the watch to be wound as even on the lowest settings some winders tend to be overkill. It would be nice if you had / can borrow a power reseve indicator watch as that way you can see what the optimal level is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## surfuz

Hi, I did some research on winders recently. 

Already have a 7 piece winder from this company called Orient Crown. Have a second winder incoming which should be delivered by Dec from Wolf, the 6 piece Roadster, which I'm eagerly anticipating. 

Most decent winders will say that they are using Japanese mabuchi motors, which is supposed to be quality. Even Wolf is using it.

I got the Orient Crown model as finishing is good and it has useful TPD settings of 650, 750, 850, 1000, and 1950, with usual 3 settings for directions. To me, the important feature of this winder is that it winds within a 12 hour span (with rest time in between depending on TPD) and sleeps for the next 12 hours. It also has sensor for the glass cover which pause the motors when the glass is opened. Realized that most of the cheaper winders do not allow for TPD variation with most of them fixed around 900 TPD.

The cons for the Orient Crown winder is that TPD is not 100% accurate as it spins for a fix time for specific TPD, and spins slower for the heavier watches. There is only 3 motor for 7 pieces as 3 of them are paired. Not a big problem if the watches are light. But suspect it will cause premature detoriation to the motors compared to those having dedicated motor to a watch like those from Wolf.

The Wolf is supposed to have accurate TPD. It completes the cycle with 6 hour period and sleeps for the next 18 hours.

I find the Orbital database on TPD to settings useful. Orient Crown also has a TPD database at its website.

Sent from my G8142 using Tapatalk


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## Perseverence

A Versa is the cheapest and most (space-wise) economical way to wind four watches.

With a heavier watch, say a diver, the motors may start running loud. I would, however, use them to wind watches with more than a date or center-seconds complication, or as you say, cannot be wound using the crown.


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## wellhouse

any problems with magnetising with watch winders? I guess the better ones are screened in some way.


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## StephenCanale

I haven't noticed any issues with magnetization, but better winders do include shielding to prevent that from occurring.

As for the posts concerning rotation and timers.... a quality winder will allow for various Turns Per Day so you can set each station as needed for the specific watch requirements, and uni and bi-directional selection (again to suit the watch) are always included in quality winders as well.

A few of my watches do have Power Reserve complications and I've been able to verify the TPD are generally as advertised.... it's not rocket science. That said, I'm not buying cheap winders either. Generally Wolf or equivalent quality, though I do watch and wait for sales via Amazon or Touch of Modern or Jomashop, etc as I'd never pay retail (which seems quite excessive) for them.


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## bpjacobs

I bought a couple of Wolf Savoy 2.7 triple winders from yagot2beready on eBay for about $250 each; they were refurbished - hinges replaced, dings covered up, but still work properly. I particularly like the Wolf 2.7 programmable range from 300 to 1200 tpd, and like a previous person posting, set them to a low number of turns. You can also delay the start to allow the watch to wind down a bit.


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## Zoogleboogle

Is magnetization a real concern for cheaper watch winders? (a 3-4 winder sub $500)?


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## StephenCanale

Zoogleboogle said:


> Is magnetization a real concern for cheaper watch winders? (a 3-4 winder sub $500)?


I can't answer that with evidence, but I think you would probably have to go cheaper than that to worry about it being an issue.

It's just a hunch though, as I assume you would hear more about the issue if it was more common.

I haven't had any problem with my Wolf winders, for what that's worth, and I did get one of those in a 3 bay setup for around that price on sale through Touch of Modern, though the MSRP is of course listed much higher (though I would never pay list for one of them.)


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## mitar98

Debated and researched long before ultimately buying one. Just got one from Amazon with good reviews made by JQueen for 4 watches for $129. However, in addition to the winder, I also got an outlet programmer so that I can regulate how long the winder will work (this was another $10). The setting that the winder has is 2 minutes on, 6 minutes off. With this, it will keep the watches wound all the time which, based on everything the good folks here have said, is not ideal. I am still experimenting, but currently I have programmed it in such a way that the winder will only work from 10am to 9pm at the mentioned rate. The time off in the evenings should give the hairspring time to unwind until next morning and pick it up again. I have a watch that has a power reserve so I can monitor how it progresses. All of my automatics have a roughly 50h power reserve so should be applicable to all. Ideally, I will find a place where the watch will unwind to about 10% during the night and the winder will get it back to 50-60%. Having said that, I have heard - more than once, that watches still "like" to go to zero from time to time and get fully wound again manually. The idea is that the hairspring should be allowed to unwind fully and wind up fully again so that it retains its elasticity accross its entire length. Not sure if that is really the case but thought it may be worth mentioning. Hope this is useful. Once I find the secret time intervals, I will update on how I have set it up.


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## StephenCanale

mitar98 said:


> JQueen for 4 watches for $129.


I took a quick look at this and the winding patterns seem too aggressive.

Another user mentioned:

​ _The winder instructions don't explicitly tell you but I did the math and determined that it's 1800-2000 rotations per day. _​
Even with your outlet timer on the schedule you suggest, you'll still be over winding the watch most of the day. I don't know the value of your watches, but I wouldn't be comfortable with any winder that didn't allow you to set the turns per day, UNLESS 650 TPD was the default setting (as that's a pretty common requirement).

But, if you're going to keep it, then I'd count the rotations per cycle, then do the math to get to 650 turns (or whatever your watches require) and then adjust your outlet timer so it runs just long enough to reach that number for the day.

It's probably going to need to be on for a much, much shorter period of time than your initial estimate.


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## mitar98

StephenCanale said:


> I took a quick look at this and the winding patterns seem too aggressive.Another user mentioned:​ _The winder instructions don't explicitly tell you but I did the math and determined that it's 1800-2000 rotations per day. _​Even with your outlet timer on the schedule you suggest, you'll still be over winding the watch most of the day. I don't know the value of your watches, but I wouldn't be comfortable with any winder that didn't allow you to set the turns per day, UNLESS 650 TPD was the default setting (as that's a pretty common requirement).But, if you're going to keep it, then I'd count the rotations per cycle, then do the math to get to 650 turns (or whatever your watches require) and then adjust your outlet timer so it runs just long enough to reach that number for the day.It's probably going to need to be on for a much, much shorter period of time than your initial estimate.


Hey - thanks for your reply. Like I mentioned, I just got it and haven't really done much math to see what works best. However, given your very useful comments - this is what I think. Maybe you can tell me if you agree with my approach. The winder works for 2 minutes + 6 minutes off so total 8 minute increments. During this time it does about 18 full turns. As such, in order to get to 650 turns (which is the amount required for my watches based on Orbtia's website), It needs to run about 4.5 hours during the day. 4.5x60=270minutes; 270/8 = 34 (8 minute increments); 34*18 rotations = 612. So, the question is: what is the best way for me to set it up using the outlet programmer? Do I have it run every 5 hours for an hour or a different approach. Also, the 650 turns, does this equate to how many turns it need to be fully wound? As such, if I run it in 5h increments, it would esentially wind and then unwind during down time. Input would me much appreciated. Thanks!


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## StephenCanale

mitar98 said:


> ...in order to get to 650 turns It needs to run about 4.5 hours during the day.
> 
> So, the question is: what is the best way for me to set it up using the outlet programmer? Do I have it run every 5 hours for an hour or a different approach.
> 
> Also, the 650 turns, does this equate to how many turns it need to be fully wound? As such, if I run it in 5h increments, it would esentially wind and then unwind during down time.


Assuming the match is correct and 5 hours gets you roughly 650 turns, then your options are either what you suggested:

Off for 4:48 minutes then Run for 1 hour which breaks the day into 5 equal parts and then you get the turns you need. I think most would go this route as it would keep the watch close to fully wound, most of the time, and watches are most accurate when above 50% power.

If you wanted to let the main spring unwind a bit, as you mentioned in a prior post, you could be off for 19 hours and on for 5, which would let it loose roughly half it's power before winding back up.

It's really not all that critical, and there's not going to be a magic correct answer, but the first option better addresses the reality that you'll obviously be wearing the watch and keep in mind that when you put it back on the winder, it's going to already have full power and not need winding.

So, you might have to get in the habit of starting the timer when you put the watch on the winder in order for this to work as desired.

Or, breaking it down into more increments, like resting for 2:24 and running for 30 minutes so it's less important where the cycle is when you put the fully powered watch on the winder.

For what it's worth, and if it helps you decide, one of my Wolf winders not only has the standard TPD and directional options, but it has a delayed start feature. So every time I put a watch in its station I can turn the knob to the delay position and then it won't start the program until a period of time (options are 6, 12, 18 and 24 hr).

In the long run, as long as the winder keeps them powered at all, just remember that wearing them for a few hours will likely power them in full, so with just 4 watches, if you wear them once a week, you could let them loose a little power while on the winder and not have to worry about it too much.


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## mitar98

StephenCanale said:


> ...For what it's worth, and if it helps you decide, one of my Wolf winders not only has the standard TPD and directional options, but it has a delayed start feature. So every time I put a watch in its station I can turn the knob to the delay position and then it won't start the program until a period of time (options are 6, 12, 18 and 24 hr).In the long run, as long as the winder keeps them powered at all, just remember that wearing them for a few hours will likely power them in full, so with just 4 watches, if you wear them once a week, you could let them loose a little power while on the winder and not have to worry about it too much.


Thanks and really appreciate your input. I think I will go with the first option of having it broken up in equal increments. As far as putting a watch on after having worn it the entire day, I think what I will do is not put the watch on the winder immediately after I take it off. Instead, I will keep it off the winder until morning when I go in to take another watch and put it on then. This way, it will have the night to come down in reserve a bit. At the end of the day, this isn't an exact science and I am sure I will have tweaks along the way. The key, in my mind, is to be careful to not overwind the watch. Really, the two main reasons I got the winder in the first place is 1. not having to set the date and time every time 2. and more importantly, so that I dont have to manually wind these automatics every time. Once again, appreciate your answers!


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## StephenCanale

mitar98 said:


> I think what I will do is not put the watch on the winder immediately after I take it off. Instead, I will keep it off the winder until morning when I go in to take another watch and put it on then.


Good idea, that would solve pretty much all of the issues!

Glad to be of help.


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## Red PeeKay

mitar98 said:


> Thanks and really appreciate your input. I think I will go with the first option of having it broken up in equal increments. As far as putting a watch on after having worn it the entire day, I think what I will do is not put the watch on the winder immediately after I take it off. Instead, I will keep it off the winder until morning when I go in to take another watch and put it on then. This way, it will have the night to come down in reserve a bit. At the end of the day, this isn't an exact science and I am sure I will have tweaks along the way. The key, in my mind, is to be careful to not overwind the watch. Really, the two main reasons I got the winder in the first place is 1. not having to set the date and time every time 2. and more importantly, so that I dont have to manually wind these automatics every time. Once again, appreciate your answers!


Hmm, will have to try this. I only put my date auto's on the winder. It's a right PITA setting date whilst taking into account not doing so whilst it's in the change over period. 
My no dates I allow to wind down. Pretty easy and quick to get them up to speed.

"Expecto Inopinatum"


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## LAGuy

I would go with a winder from Chiyoda. I bought one on Amazon for about $100 and it's still going strong after over 2 years.

Good luck!​


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