# Eco-Drive worth it?



## jerico9spd (Sep 22, 2019)

When purchasing a watch, which movement would be the cheapest to maintain over the watch’s lifetime?

A well-known local watchmaker said to never go solar, as the battery and capacitor are more-expensive than your typical battery-change in a quartz battery watch.

Interested to hear your thoughts!


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## GaryK30 (Dec 14, 2014)

I disagree. You probably don't have to change the battery in an Eco-Drive watch for 15 or 20 years, if you keep the watch charged to a medium or high level. (Depleting the cell too far for too long with have an adverse effect on its service life.) With a standard analog quartz watch you'll usually have to replace the battery every 2 or 3 years. The total cost of batteries and labor will be much higher for a standard quartz watch than for an Eco-Drive. I much prefer solar over standard quartz watches.


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Solar Casio may outlast all of us, as some of mine are 21 years old on original cells with a full charge. Of the dozens of solar charged Seiko, Citizen, Casio and Timex I own, I have Never replaced a solar cell or capacitor.

Given enough Sun, solar watches may be the ticket to perpetual watches.

One of 4 window sills full of solars soaking up the rays


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## Tacocat (Jul 2, 2012)

well if you;re worried about maintenance cost, you've made the correct first decision to stick with quartz. the cost of servicing a mechanical movement often exceeds the cost of the otherwise very nice affordable entry level watch that contains said movement, but that's besides the point.

deciding between solar (or kinetic) charge and standard battery you have to ask yourself how much you intend to wear the watch. solar battery longevity is best when it is kept close to full charge by regular exposure to light. kinetic is the same except that obviously this charges by motion and not light. If the watch will spend much of its life in a dark drawer or box, the charge will eventually be depleted and longevity will be effected. now some of the calibers will have fancy methods to shut down function to extend the life of the charge while in the dark for enough time to counter the time in darkness. my point being if the watch will be infrequently worn, you will have to baby sit it a little by getting it a charge on the windowsill once a month or so, or simply leave it out on a dresser every day to catch ambient light. The trade off in this investment is the watch will always be working. If this is too much for you and you don't want to do anything with your watch besides wear it, then the traditional battery powered watch will always be running until it isn't and then you'll have to replace the battery anyway.

my recommendation is to buy the watch you want to wear and then do whatever you need to do to manage the battery.

I also recommend getting an inexpensive watch tool kit off ebay and learn how to change your own batteries. its really not that hard and you can practice opening up a few scrap watches until you feel comfortable. I haven't paid for a battery change since my last one where the idiot pinched the gasket and I wound up flooding the watch.



EDIT

Important note about traditional watch batteries. NEVER NEVER NEVER use the cheap alkaline button cells. ALWAYS use SILVER OXIDE batteries from recognized brands. The savings is simply not worth it because the cheap alkaline batteries are very prone to leaking and the acids will kill the electronics of the movement. This is another reason I prefer to change my own batteries, but if you're paying someone else then insist they show you what they are putting in. Some people are amazing that they'll choose to put in a trash battery just to save 50 cents. also if you have a battery die in a watch, it is best to remove the dead battery ASAP, particularly if you have a cheap alkaline cell in there as this is when they are most likely to leak. Also if you are buying battery powered watches second hand, always check the battery and make sure it is quality and replace it if necessary. its amazing how many collector quality watches from the 70s and 80s have been trashed because of the failure of a cheap battery.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

Sure, the batteries for solar watches are more expensive than normal ones but when they can last 20 years you’re quids in. They just need keeping well charged as they don’t like the dark for long periods.


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

This one is 8.5 years old and still works as well as it did on day one after the first solar charge. I paid a total of $355.30 for it, tax included, at an AD. In addition to being solar powered, it also syncs to the USNO clock every night for accuracy. The model is CB0000-57E (discontinued), and I still use it to set my automatics. I challenge you to find a better bargain.


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## bamboomerang (May 30, 2018)

Eco-drive is quite literally the answer to someone who wants little to no maintenance associated with an analog watch.


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## mi6_ (Jan 7, 2015)

Citizen’s Eco-Drive is the most reliable and lowest maintenance cost watch you can get. Your watchmaker is an idiot. Get a new one. He knows if you buy a Solar Quartz that you won’t be coming to spend money at his business.


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## Sir-Guy (Apr 25, 2017)

Agreed, solar quartz is the way to go. Citizen has been doing it a long time and seem to be good at it. I have a solar Pulsar that's well over 20 years old and it's still running fine.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

mi6_ said:


> Citizen's Eco-Drive is the most reliable and lowest maintenance cost watch you can get. Your watchmaker is an idiot. Get a new one. He knows if you buy a Solar Quartz that you won't be coming to spend money at his business.


Maybe not strictly an "idiot", but a watchmaker only sees broken watches. So the sampling is kinda skewed. 

OP, after seeing my mom need to replace the battery twice in her regular quartz watch within two years*, I'm more convinced that the two best daily-use movement types are solar quartz and self-winding automatics, with solar quartz having the edge in durability and light weight. I won't even consider a non-solar quartz movement anymore unless it was really special (Seiko 9F, etc).

* The manufacturer stated in an email that the battery in her model is expected to last between 1.5 to 2 years, and for all we know, her watch could've been sitting in the display case for a year before we bought it. Still, though, that seems like an inconveniently short battery life. Maybe it's just a tiny little cell.


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## OscarWhitbread (Sep 27, 2016)

I recently purchased a solar watch for my 11 year old daughter for her birthday. As she was telling my father in law it was solar, he held up his watch and said mine too, had it for 8 years and still ticking. 

It was then I realised that every person in the room, my wife, daughter, my parents, my wife's parents and I were all wearing solar quartz watches and the general consensus was they wouldn't go back to wearing a regular battery quartz watch as their solar watch is so reliable. They are all one watch owners. First watch conversation I've ever had with more than 2 people in a single room!


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## Meatshield the Yeti (Jun 18, 2019)

I wouldn't let the cost of repair scare me away from a solar watch -- as everyone's said here, solars last forever, and the technology is so cheap that you can get a new one for almost nothing. If I can buy a new Citizen every 10-20 years for a few hundred bucks, that's totally fine with me.


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## dgaddis (Apr 1, 2019)

It's about time (get it?). With a solar watch you don't have to spend the time sourcing and replacing batteries yourself, or worse, actually leaving the house, getting in your car, dealing with all the other idiots on the road, and then walking into a store and talking with someone else to have them change the battery.

I'm exhausted just thinking about it.


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## Wolfsatz (Jun 27, 2016)

the watchmaker only wants to see you back every two to three years.... he knows with an eco drive.. next time he'll see you may .. well let's face it. Never again!


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## Meatshield the Yeti (Jun 18, 2019)

dgaddis said:


> It's about time (get it?). With a solar watch you don't have to spend the time sourcing and replacing batteries yourself, or worse, actually leaving the house, getting in your car, dealing with all the other idiots on the road, and then walking into a store and talking with someone else to have them change the battery.
> 
> I'm exhausted just thinking about it.


A misanthrope after my own heart.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

BarracksSi said:


> Maybe not strictly an "idiot", but a watchmaker only sees broken watches. So the sampling is kinda skewed.
> 
> OP, after seeing my mom need to replace the battery twice in her regular quartz watch within two years*, I'm more convinced that the two best daily-use movement types are solar quartz and self-winding automatics, with solar quartz having the edge in durability and light weight. I won't even consider a non-solar quartz movement anymore unless it was really special (Seiko 9F, etc).
> 
> * The manufacturer stated in an email that the battery in her model is expected to last between 1.5 to 2 years, and for all we know, her watch could've been sitting in the display case for a year before we bought it. Still, though, that seems like an inconveniently short battery life. Maybe it's just a tiny little cell.


A follow up -

I don't know when we're planning on giving this to Mom, but whenever she's ready, we'll "upgrade" her nice quartz watch with this Citizen that we picked up earlier this week. And I mean "upgrade" in quotes because the Citizen cost less than a third of what her regular non-solar watch did.

BUT, this will be more reliable - and isn't that what we want in a wristwatch?


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## d3xmeister (Sep 4, 2018)

I’ve seen watches in need for a solar cell replacement, which is not cheap. But for me, the availability of those in parts stores and ebay and seeing them being sold is telling me that this technology is not as bullet proof as some claim. It’s kinda similar with automatics, some need service after a couple of years, some go 15-20 with no issue.

I’d put normal quartz higher than both, but only those with 10-years battery life, or at least 7. There are quite a few from ETA, Casio, Seiko, Citizen. If you think about it, after 10 years you gaskets would probably be useless and need to be changed if you don’t want moisture inside, it doesn’t even matter if you take baths with it (if you do, probably 3-4 years is the max for gaskets).

So you are going to need service anyway, no matter what movement you have, and the most affordable has to be 10-years normal quartz movements, or even I’d say 7 years, because when you do service for gaskets, you can just change the battery for a couple of dollars too.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

d3xmeister said:


> I've seen watches in need for a solar cell replacement, which is not cheap. But for me, the availability of those in parts stores and ebay and seeing them being sold is telling me that this technology is not as bullet proof as some claim.


Again, like the OP's watchmaker, this is a skewed sampling, like deciding that Chevy V8 engines must break down a lot since you can always buy them mail-order from JC Whitney.


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## Davidka (Apr 1, 2014)

jerico9spd said:


> When purchasing a watch, which movement would be the cheapest to maintain over the watch's lifetime?
> 
> A well-known local watchmaker said to never go solar, as the battery and capacitor are more-expensive than your typical battery-change in a quartz battery watch.
> 
> Interested to hear your thoughts!


I wouldn't return to that watchmaker.


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## d3xmeister (Sep 4, 2018)

BarracksSi said:


> Again, like the OP's watchmaker, this is a skewed sampling, like deciding that Chevy V8 engines must break down a lot since you can always buy them mail-order from JC Whitney.


It isn't, I understand exactly what I said. What I observed is that they do go wrong, and these parts are popular enough for many sellers to stock them, this may not tell you exactly what percentage does go wrong, but it tells you for sure is not something that rarely occurs. At least that's how I understand these things.

To me, this technology only makes sense with watches packed with battery consuming features, like radio sync, automatic screen lighting,etc. Solar is perfect for those type of watches. On simple watches, I don't see any point, since a long battery life quartz movement will take you to the ooint where you have to service it anyway.


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## eddiefirestone (Oct 14, 2019)

I just bought my first eco-drive and I could not be happier. I have had quartz, mechanical and automatics. This is the best of what is out there.


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## dgaddis (Apr 1, 2019)

d3xmeister said:


> It isn't, I understand exactly what I said. What I observed is that they do go wrong, and these parts are popular enough for many sellers to stock them, this may not tell you exactly what percentage does go wrong, but it tells you for sure is not something that rarely occurs. At least that's how I understand these things.
> 
> To me, this technology only makes sense with watches packed with battery consuming features, like radio sync, automatic screen lighting,etc. Solar is perfect for those type of watches. On simple watches, I don't see any point, since a long battery life quartz movement will take you to the ooint where you have to service it anyway.


The parts being available isn't an indicator of failure rate. To make any reasonable assumption on that you'd need a lot of info, like how many solar powered watches are sold per year, are in use currently, etc.

And lets be honest, apart from a battery change, most people don't service their watch or change out the gaskets. The average watch buyer (and I do mean watch buyer, not watch enthusiast) just wears it till it either stops working for some reason or they decide to get something else for whatever reason (old watch is beat up, their style preference changed, etc).


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## SamRHughes (Nov 6, 2017)

With long enough battery life the watch can meet an "I don't care" threshold anyway. 10 year battery? How old will I be then? Will I even be wearing this watch?

By my calculation, for solar longevity, assuming the solar panel/battery hold up, it's basically a question of moving hands and friction versus LCD fade. Well, maybe some form of plastic degradation will be the ultimate killer.


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## Vunter (Apr 10, 2018)

jerico9spd said:


> When purchasing a watch, which movement would be the cheapest to maintain over the watch's lifetime?
> 
> A well-known local watchmaker said to never go solar, as the battery and capacitor are more-expensive than your typical battery-change in a quartz battery watch.
> 
> Interested to hear your thoughts!


So I'm relatively new to this community in that I've only been apart of it since 2018 and I'm also relatively new to diving into other watch brands etc... Having said that one of my first ever "higher end" watches was a Citizen Eco-Drive Chronograph. I use the term "higher-end" lightly because at the time as a High School graduate I never had the opportunity to own a watch costing that much or of that caliber. Prior to this moment in time, I owned various digital watches costing $50 and under.

My parents knew I had an interest in watches and at the time I was very much interested in Citizen's so when I graduated and my parents unveiled it and I opened it up; I had all sorts of emotions. Surprised, excited, and curious. I wore this watch every single day for many years. I wore it in the rain, I wore it playing sports, I really put the watch to work. Fast forward 16 years later and it's still going strong. No services, No maintenance. I actually let the watch discharge to zero and it was in the shape for 2 years until recently when I rediscovered it again and put it out on my window sill all day and charged it up. It took two full days on the window-sill to get fully charged and now it's running like new.

I own two quartz watches; a Timex Weekender and a Pulsar Chronograph. The Pulsar I've had for about 10 years and have had to replace the battery about 8 times or so. The Timex I've had a few years and had to replace the battery once. Granted these watches are significantly more inexpensive than my citizen is, but still, I think my citizen is far more reliable. Because my Citizen is still going strong I don't have the experience of needing the internal solar battery replaced, but the fact that it still works like new 16 years later is pretty damn good if you ask me. I actually contacted citizens about the watch being discharged for so long and they said even though it was out of warranty for many, many years they would replace it if it needed to at no cost. I needed additional links as well and they sent them for free. So I would agree with others that I much prefer my solar over traditional quartz. I might have different opinions when compared against a super high-end quartz watch, but since I don't have any experience with those watches I can only speak about my personal experience.

My Citizen Eco-Drive. Circa 2003


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## Barbababa (Jan 6, 2019)

If I am correctly informed, the capacitor (or battery) in a Citizen eco-drive only looses 10-15% over a 10 year period (that would give you a hypothetical 100 years before it´s totaly gone) And the modern eco-drive movements actually _runs on light_ and only use the battery when light it insufficient. That means that if you expose your watch to light every day, the battery will only kick in when you put it in total darkness for some time. And even then it will take some more time until the battery will start to take over running the watch. From what I heard it only happens in power save mode. My Eco-drive ONE is said to never need a new capacitor under its lifetime. Even if half of what I wrote is not 100% correct, I am sure a modern eco-drive will last a life time


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

BarracksSi said:


> A follow up -
> 
> I don't know when we're planning on giving this to Mom, but whenever she's ready, we'll "upgrade" her nice quartz watch with this Citizen that we picked up earlier this week. And I mean "upgrade" in quotes because the Citizen cost less than a third of what her regular non-solar watch did.
> 
> BUT, this will be more reliable - and isn't that what we want in a wristwatch?


A follow up to the follow up -

Mom likes the new Citizen. It's smaller, it has lume on the hands and indices (not as bright as her favored Indiglo, but better than the no-lume Swiss quartz we gave her before), and it's lighter in weight.


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## MysteryBiscuits (Oct 29, 2019)

Receipt dating back to 1997. Found after a decade of storage. Put it on a windowsill for a day, keeps perfect time. Enough said...










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## nodnar (Oct 7, 2016)

MysteryBiscuits said:


> Receipt dating back to 1997. Found after a decade of storage. Put it on a windowsill for a day, keeps perfect time. Enough said...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had this watch, loved it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Personally I'm more concerned with the movement inside the watch than the battery. Not sure if the movement could last as long as the battery.


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

Simply Put: You would be _hard pressed_ to find a more trouble free movement than a Citizen Eco-Drive.


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## normdiaz (May 25, 2006)

qa_ii said:


> I paid a total of $355.30 for it, tax included. I challenge you to find a better bargain.
> 
> 
> > How about this one for under $100?


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## Rojote (Oct 30, 2009)

Well after owning 30 plus automatic dive watches in the past 10 years I just bought my first Citizen Eco-Drive. The single biggest benefit to light powered watch (especially a diver) is not having to constantly pull out the crown and reset it all the time. Over time crown threads and tube will wear out and will need repair at some point. The fact you set the Eco-Drive and basically forget it is a huge plus. The value from a price perspective is another huge benefit for buyers. Citizen is one of the only watch companies with 5 year standard warranty. You overpriced swiss piece is 2 years best.


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## tomchicago (Feb 15, 2010)

The only downside is that if the eco-drive is part of a collection and not in daily rotation, you're stuck with keeping it in a window.


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## MysteryBiscuits (Oct 29, 2019)

I've been accumulating Eco-Drives and I've found it extremely difficult to get any of them to actually fully discharge.


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## Ziptie (Jun 25, 2016)

tomchicago said:


> The only downside is that if the eco-drive is part of a collection and not in daily rotation, you're stuck with keeping it in a window.


Really? A full charge will get you something like 24 months reserve, depending on the model. It doesn't take a lot of light to maintain them.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Ziptie said:


> Really? A full charge will get you something like 24 months reserve, depending on the model. It doesn't take a lot of light to maintain them.


Not mine. It'll show low charge after enough time away from daylight (maybe a month to six weeks?). My watch box has a glass top, so it's not like I'm keeping it in a sock drawer, either - so it's probably because that corner of my bedroom room doesn't get much light even during the day. So now, especially in the winter, I've begun parking it on the windowsill for a day every couple weeks.

However, it's also shown a low charge in winter when I was wearing it every day. I was wearing long sleeves (work uniform) and rarely saw daylight, even during my commute. It started giving the two-second-hop sometime that December. Because the sun was usually already setting by the time I got home, I had to hang it on the living room lamp to boost its charge again.

All that being said... It's never stopped completely in the seven years that I've owned it. If it shows a low charge, all I need to do is give it a day in the window or wear short sleeves. It's easier to get my automatic mechanicals running, but an auto isn't as precise or durable, either.


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## Rojote (Oct 30, 2009)

I found if the watch is not hitting my wrist at least 1x per month it is sold... 🙂. I personally found hoarding watches (for my ego) that rarely get worn is a waste.


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## dgaddis (Apr 1, 2019)

Rojote said:


> Well after owning 30 plus automatic dive watches in the past 10 years I just bought my first Citizen Eco-Drive. The single biggest benefit to light powered watch (especially a diver) is not having to constantly pull out the crown and reset it all the time. Over time crown threads and tube will wear out and will need repair at some point. The fact you set the Eco-Drive and basically forget it is a huge plus. The value from a price perspective is another huge benefit for buyers. Citizen is one of the only watch companies with 5 year standard warranty. You overpriced swiss piece is 2 years best.


Just wait till you try a radio controlled watch with a perpetual calendar. You don't even have to adjust it for DST!


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## WatchBeer (Jun 5, 2018)

Is there a need for service with eco drive watches? Of course you need to change the gaskets for water resistance every something years, but how about the actual movement?


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## Ziptie (Jun 25, 2016)

WatchBeer said:


> Is there a need for service with eco drive watches? Of course you need to change the gaskets for water resistance every something years, but how about the actual movement?
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


Nope.


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## Jarvar (Mar 10, 2018)

MysteryBiscuits said:


> I've been accumulating Eco-Drives and I've found it extremely difficult to get any of them to actually fully discharge.


I haven't had this problem. Well actually I just got my first Eco-drive. Always had automatics before that. However a family member has had a women's Eco-drive since 2002-2003. I think we've replaced the capacitor twice because that was what the watch repair person at that shop recommended both times. I'm wondering if it really is true, or we're just not fully charging it complete.

Now that I have my own eco-drive I am realizing how much I have to conciously make sure it gets enough light. When I first received the BN0150-09L, it was stopped and it took a while to charge it so that the seconds hand stopped jumping two seconds.

One thing is it's winter now, so more long sleeves, sweaters and jackets can prohibit the daily dose of light required.

Has anyone else have their Eco-drives run down completely? or just me?...


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Jarvar said:


> Has anyone else have their Eco-drives run down completely? or just me?...


Not yet. I've seen the low battery warning on mine several times, but I'm changing the routine a bit and putting it on the windowsill once in a while. I don't think I'll get it looked at until it's at least ten years old (Citizen's recommendation for servicing and checking the gaskets).


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## jman0 (Dec 24, 2013)

I just got my first one, an AW7030-06E, about a week ago, and it's getting a bit hard to get it fully charged, since I live in a very cloudy region here (Asturias, Spain). I've been charging it under a very bright led lamp I have here (15000 lumens, accoring to an app I downloaded on my phone) and was able to get the power reserve indicator just up to the middle, so I guess I will be fine. At first I even thought it could be defective, since it was taking it a lot to charge. But well, I guess that was just because of my lack of knowledge about this technology. I hope it will be fine. Or maybe next spring/summer.

Anyway, I love this watch. I've had (and still wear some) regular battery qwartz watches (which I really never liked much), hand wound analogs, automatic analogs, a solar Casio G-Shock, and now this Eco Drive, and this one positioned almost immediately on my top 3 list.


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## Madstacks (Nov 11, 2018)

Eco drives are such good value watches, Citizen in general are a better value watch than Seiko IMO.


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## Jarvar (Mar 10, 2018)

BarracksSi said:


> Not yet. I've seen the low battery warning on mine several times, but I'm changing the routine a bit and putting it on the windowsill once in a while. I don't think I'll get it looked at until it's at least ten years old (Citizen's recommendation for servicing and checking the gaskets).


It could be the difference between a men's watch and women's. The one that was losing power was a women's watch so smaller watch and smaller battery, but also small dial recharging surface.

I am making it a point to recharge it or atleast expose it to light when the watch is at home. Just from seeing how this person usually handles the watch, I usually only receive it when the watch has stopped. I'm not even informed when it's jumping, just when it's at a stand still.

Mostly indoor lighting to charge it in the winter though unless we get a really sunny winter day here. I think issue is the light in our place rises on the front and sets on the back so I don't have a window that gets all day sunshine.

6 months on a full charge should last through the winter though. My suspicions are that the watch is never fully charged, if anything it's usually only carrying the bare minimum. I've noticed that with BN0150-09L as well. Yesterday it was hopping between the low charge war indicator and just being charged enough for the seconds hand to tick normally. I used a flashlight eventually to give it an extra boost.


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## dgaddis (Apr 1, 2019)

jman0 said:


> I just got my first one, an AW7030-06E, about a week ago, and it's getting a bit hard to get it fully charged, since I live in a very cloudy region here (Asturias, Spain). I've been charging it under a very bright led lamp I have here (15000 lumens, accoring to an app I downloaded on my phone) and was able to get the power reserve indicator just up to the middle, so I guess I will be fine. At first I even thought it could be defective, since it was taking it a lot to charge. But well, I guess that was just because of my lack of knowledge about this technology. I hope it will be fine. Or maybe next spring/summer.
> 
> Anyway, I love this watch. I've had (and still wear some) regular battery qwartz watches (which I really never liked much), hand wound analogs, automatic analogs, a solar Casio G-Shock, and now this Eco Drive, and this one positioned almost immediately on my top 3 list.


Sunlight works WAY better than artificial. Even on a cloud day. Put it in a window sill for a few days.

I'm always amazed at how even on a partly cloudy day a quick walk from the car into my office the lume will glow so bright if the lights in the hall are turned off.


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## MysteryBiscuits (Oct 29, 2019)

I know that lumes benefit from the UV light, which is higher in energy than visible light; can Eco-Drive solar cells charge using UV?


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## dgaddis (Apr 1, 2019)

MysteryBiscuits said:


> I know that lumes benefit from the UV light, which is higher in energy than visible light; can Eco-Drive solar cells charge using UV?


I have no idea of the physics haha.

But this video they did an experiment w/a digial Seiko Tuna (which I didn't even know was a thing) - it has a handy feature that will tell you how much charge it's getting from a given light source. It gives it in 'levels', with 1 being the lowest and 10 the highest. Video here :: 




Results:
7:28pm on cloudy day = level 5
bright full sunlight day = level 10
So bright it will hurt your eyes LED flashlight only a foot away from the watch= varied from level 2 to level 4.

Sunlight rules!


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## Jarvar (Mar 10, 2018)

dgaddis said:


> I have no idea of the physics haha.
> 
> But this video they did an experiment w/a digial Seiko Tuna (which I didn't even know was a thing) - it has a handy feature that will tell you how much charge it's getting from a given light source. It gives it in 'levels', with 1 being the lowest and 10 the highest. Video here ::
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing. You and the last few responses have convinced me to at least charge my eco-drive on the window sill even on a cloudy day.
I noticed while I used a bright LED flashlight at close proximity it didn't take long for the charge to dwindle between charged and the low charge warning status.

Unfortunately for the other Eco drive watch we have has to only be charged with artificial lights during evenings when the natural sunlight is gone or on weekends only. Hopefully we have some more sun during the weekend.

Thank you for sharing your research.


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## Madstacks (Nov 11, 2018)

Id go for an eco - drive, for me the lack of need to open up and possibly compromise the water resistance is a big bonus! Yes battery changes are cheaper but each time that back comes of if not done properly it could lore WR.


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## Bazzamate (Jul 17, 2013)

Madstacks said:


> Eco drives are such good value watches, Citizen in general are a better value watch than Seiko IMO.


Couldn't agree more.

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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

I stopped wearing my Eco-Drive (or any watch) years ago, so it just sits in the living room being pretty and I charge it outside on a sunny day once or twice a year. Well that's the theory anyway, because one day in 2019 I looked at it and it was completely dead. I hadn't looked at it for so long, I didn't even see it skipping the seconds! I feared the worst, but after a day in the sun it was back up and running. I don't know if and how much that shortened the life of the battery/capacitor, but time will tell *wink wink* This Eco-Drive is from 2007 so 13 years is already not a problem.
I also have a very early Eco-Drive from 2000, bought second hand so I don't know if it was ever serviced, but I doubt it, so that would mean 20 years of service! Anyway it gets the same charge days as my newer Eco-Drive and this older one had not run out of juice when the newer one did! Both are radio controlled by the way.


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## MAD777 (Feb 4, 2020)

Eco-drive all the way! I have to come up with a really good reason to NOT buy an eco-drive. 

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## Realize (May 23, 2019)

Eco Drive 100%

As for the "battery," it is estimated to lose 20% over 20 years, or roughly 1% per year. Granted this is assuming that you wear it on a regular basis and feed it well.
People only stock the surplus solar batteries for these online, because there are people who will let it die in a drawer, charge it a bit, and then let it die again, etc. Depleting the battery can be harmful to it.
Interesting fact, (40and20 podcast) the average life expectancy of a quartz movement is estimated at 23 years. So aside from replacing the gaskets every few years, nothing to worry about.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Eddix (Feb 7, 2020)

dgaddis said:


> Sunlight works WAY better than artificial. Even on a cloud day. Put it in a window sill for a few days.
> 
> I'm always amazed at how even on a partly cloudy day a quick walk from the car into my office the lume will glow so bright if the lights in the hall are turned off.
> 
> View attachment 14820753


My first post but your watch caught my attention!

I'm looking for something like that - What model is it?

I have seen the (I know it's not the same as your model) - the Titanium Promaster Tough BN0118-12L
- but I'm not 100% sure about buying it sure as its states that the case is 40mm and I think I'd like a 42/44mm. (What size is your one that you posted?)

Many thanks


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

Eddix said:


> My first post but your watch caught my attention!
> 
> I'm looking for something like that - What model is it?
> 
> ...


Welcome. It's the Japanese Domestic Market PMD56-2952, 39 mm: https://citizen.jp/product/promaster/lineup/detail/index.html?seihin_no=PMD56-2952


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

They now also have a GPS watch in that style, 44.3 mm, but that is even more costly! https://citizen.jp/product/promaster/lineup/detail/index.html?seihin_no=CC3064-86E


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## CitizenPromaster (Aug 4, 2016)

And a cheaper option would be the BN0121-00E at 40 mm: https://citizen.jp/product/promaster/lineup/detail/index.html?seihin_no=BN0121-00E


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## Eddix (Feb 7, 2020)

Many thanks for your quick reply!

JDM? That explains why I can't find it over here in the UK!

The Mont Bell version looks similar to the Promaster Tough I believe - I'll check it out!

Thanks


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## Realize (May 23, 2019)

Eddix said:


> Many thanks for your quick reply!
> 
> JDM? That explains why I can't find it over here in the UK!
> 
> ...


Having owned both the BN0121 & BN0211, I would choose the latter any day.

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## jstay (Jan 27, 2020)

Realize said:


> Having owned both the BN0121 & BN0211, I would choose the latter any day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


What is your reason(s) behind this?

I have in my possession BN0211 but not BN0121.

I have been led to believe BN0121 or its similar cousin BN0118 is better than BN0211 due to its superior water resistance of BN0118 (300m) over BN0211 (200m) and titanium construction (vis a vis titanium coated SS for BN0211).

So much so that I considered flipping my BN0211 for BN0118.


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## Realize (May 23, 2019)

jstay said:


> What is your reason(s) behind this?
> 
> I have in my possession BN0211 but not BN0121.
> 
> ...


I prefer the dial, case size, and lug width on the BN0211.

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## jstay (Jan 27, 2020)

Realize said:


> I prefer the dial, case size, and lug width on the BN0211.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Ah I see thanks for your reply. 
Yes I agree the BN0211 and its green and black brothers have a nicer dial with the baton indices. The arabic indices on the BN0121 tends to be quite polarising with its arabic indices.


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## freshweasley76 (Sep 29, 2019)

I’d go eco drive without doubt. I’ve always had very good experiences with solar movements


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## cistercian (Dec 23, 2019)

Madstacks said:


> Eco drives are such good value watches, Citizen in general are a better value watch than Seiko IMO.


In the late 90's or early 2000's I bought a Seiko that was titanium, Sapphire crystal, presentation crystal on the back,
and was a kinetic-quartz. Power reserve was lame..and the cell died right at 5 years. 400 dollars.

Now I have a Citizen Eco Drive with a ridiculous power reserve, Titanium, Sapphire, Perpetual calendar, Day and Date,
AT, Chrono, 5 time zones, Alarm, bonus second time zone...355 dollars.

Yes...Citizen brings a huge bang for the buck. My Seikos all aged gracelessly. To be fair all were pedestrian quartz
watches that were battery powered. life seemed like 5 years or so. The kinetic quartz was really a disappointment.
I can get a new cell for it that would double the reserve for about 60 dollars but I won't bother. It is a small dress watch
and my eyes have trouble with it now. I am glad that bigger dials are in...I can read them!
Citizen Eco Drive for me!


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## rcorreale (Jan 25, 2008)

Barbababa said:


> If I am correctly informed, the capacitor (or battery) in a Citizen eco-drive only looses 10-15% over a 10 year period (that would give you a hypothetical 100 years before it´s totaly gone) And the modern eco-drive movements actually _runs on light_ and only use the battery when light it insufficient. That means that if you expose your watch to light every day, the battery will only kick in when you put it in total darkness for some time. And even then it will take some more time until the battery will start to take over running the watch. From what I heard it only happens in power save mode. My Eco-drive ONE is said to never need a new capacitor under its lifetime. Even if half of what I wrote is not 100% correct, I am sure a modern eco-drive will last a life time


"runs on light" is not true. It runs on electricity supplied by a battery that's recharged by light. If you take the rechargeable battery out of the watch it will stop running no matter how much light is hitting the dial.


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## thorn79 (Oct 2, 2019)

I have a Pulsar solar that I bought in 2003 and wear almost everyday. Never had any service done to it. I bought it to replaced a digital Seiko watch that I bought in 1982 that the LCD went bad. The pulsar is pretty beat up so I just picked up a couple of other solar watches a couple of months ago, An Eco-drive and a Seiko.









My wife has a Seiko kinetic watch that I got her in the late 90s. She dropped it a few years ago and it stopped working. I got her a Solar Seiko and she likes it. In Dec I thought I try to repair and I ordered her a battery ($20). I replaced it and it has been running since. She wears both sometimes, one on either wrist.  The bad thing about the kinetic is that you have to wear it or shake it regularly, with solar just leave it in the light.


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## RedVee (Dec 15, 2011)

I bought my wife a nice rose gold eco-tech for Christmas. She is a geography teacher and so I thought she would appreciate the solar aspect. Being in Sydney there should not be any problem gathering enough natural light. 

Subsequent to the purchase but before Christmas I met up with a good acquaintance and I noticed he had a new watch on. He showed me a fine looking eco-tech chronograph and told me his story. He had his previous eco-tech for just over 20 years when it died. He took it in to the Citizen service centre for a repair. They advised him they couldn’t fix it but offered him a ‘good discount’ on a new one from their display. He was extremely pleased and added that he expects this watch to see him out (he is 73).

I’m very interested in the solar watches myself now, if a little confused on how the various brands versions rank.

Citizen - Seiko/Pulsar - Casio - Tissot/ETA

I’d be pleased if/when my PR100 Quartz becomes uneconomic to repair if there would be a Tissot PR100 Solar to replace it. They already use solar on the T-Touch, I hope it starts to filter down the range soon.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

RedVee said:


> I'm very interested in the solar watches myself now, if a little confused on how the various brands versions rank.
> 
> Citizen - Seiko/Pulsar - Casio - Tissot/ETA
> 
> I'd be pleased if/when my PR100 Quartz becomes uneconomic to repair if there would be a Tissot PR100 Solar to replace it. They already use solar on the T-Touch, I hope it starts to filter down the range soon.


Just to confuse you (and us) further, Junghans also makes a few solar models, including some with a radio sync feature.


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## derekb88 (Feb 3, 2021)

Personally I love EcoDrive... no issues so far, no batteries to swap, and they charge on such low light its a non-issue to keep them charged up


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## MyNameIsVigil (May 5, 2018)

I've owned many Eco-Drives, and only one has ever shown any sort of problem. My BJ9121 doesn't hold a charge for more than a couple weeks; after about a week in darkness, it will start the 2-second increment. Honestly wouldn't be a problem if I wore it daily, but I do have other Eco-Drives to appease  I'll get around to replacing the capacitor at some point.

I don't think you're going to find an easier or less expensive movement to maintain. Depending on the model, Citizen lists some of these things with 25-year service intervals. I think the Chronomasters can go up to 50 years. Sure, problems can occur, and they might be more challenging than a simple battery replacement, but the likelihood of something happening is very low. The Japanese highly value the concept of a "set it and forget it" watch, and IMO Citizen does that better than anyone.


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## TJ19 (Dec 6, 2020)

Solar = Less Servicing


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