# How to spot a fake Speedmaster Professional



## OmegaStalker

Ok so here's the situation i ran a quick scan of the forum and came to the conclusion that there is no definitive guide to how to spot a fake Omega Speedmaster Professional so the question becomes are there any signs that a watch is either fake or signs that its genuine? I understand that the people that make fakes are getting better and better every day but there must be a way to look at a Speedmaster whether it be a dial or the movement to know whether or not its real...

If people can give me what they think and perhaps supply pictures of lets say a good fake movement so that i know what kind of caliber of fakes i need to swat through to find myself a nice Speedmaster Professional.

P.S. i understand the benefit of using an AD or the three ebay sellers but if i can pick up a speedmaster about £300 cheaper and be sure its real it means i can buy a Speedmaster and eat lol


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## davieg10c

It is indeed. I go through phases of being into watches...it tends to coincide with me having a "quick look" on the forums. Anyway, now I'm going through one of those phases...so I might just pull the auction before the week is over!


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## watsondog

Ahh, Davie. I'm watching that auction. Mmmmm., I wonder if I could wear it MY home city without anyone knowing what city its come from ? Might just take a chance....


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## watsondog

We seem to have hijacked the OP's posting here.
OmegaStalker apologees for that. Fortunately, the Speedy is one of the lesser replicated models but they are about. One of the more obvious 'tells' is the subdial spacing.


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## davidbii

One of the easiest tells on a full sized speedy (i.e. non-reduced) is the subdial spacing. As seen on the pictures below, the subdials nearly touch. On the fakes, they will be further apart as they do not use the correct movement, which moves the subdials further apart to accommodate for the non-omega movement.


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## OmegaStalker

davieg10c said:


> It is indeed. I go through phases of being into watches...it tends to coincide with me having a "quick look" on the forums. Anyway, now I'm going through one of those phases...so I might just pull the auction before the week is over!


the first time i tried on a Speedmaster i thought to myself is that when i buy this watch i may get buried with it lol so i can understand your feelings can i ask what kind of min price were you looking for it? just so i have a rough idea of what to offer buyers as soon as i rebuild my watch fund


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## OmegaStalker

davidbii said:


> One of the easiest tells on a full sized speedy (i.e. non-reduced) is the subdial spacing. As seen on the pictures below, the subdials nearly touch. On the fakes, they will be further apart as they do not use the correct movement, which moves the subdials further apart to accommodate for the non-omega movement.
> 
> View attachment 458238


Yes you are right a little digging made me find this image which shows the difference

https://www.watchuseek.com/attachments/f20/25681d1160328402-fake-speedmaster-professional-spmp1.jpg


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## davieg10c

OmegaStalker said:


> the first time i tried on a Speedmaster i thought to myself is that when i buy this watch i may get buried with it lol so i can understand your feelings can i ask what kind of min price were you looking for it? just so i have a rough idea of what to offer buyers as soon as i rebuild my watch fund


Well the value of a used speedy pro can vary massively. Depending on it being 50 years old or 5 months old. Box or no box etc. Mine ticked all the boxes for me when I bought it (new ish, boxed, cards etc). I was offered £1500 cash from a member on TZ-UK which was a great offer to be honest. I said no because I'd seen one go for £1700 similar to mine on eBay. But when I way up eBay and paypal fees, it really was a good offer!


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## Spit161

watsondog said:


> Ahh, Davie. I'm watching that auction.


So am I!!:-d

cheers.


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## davidbii

And with a little more digging on my side here is an example of the subdial spacing on a reduced speedy, again different from both Full Size and Fake...

Reduced:








Full Size:









Fake:


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## physics.fun

Another easy way to spot a fake:
As others are saying, the best Speedmaster Professional fakes have incorrect subdial spacing. The pictures from davidbii are very helpful. But there are 2 other obvious give-aways:

1. the Seagull ST-19 movement used in the "best" fakes is manual handwind, but the hour chrono hand doesn't work right. It functions as a 24-hour indicator instead. In davidbii's third photo, you can see it pointing to approximately 3 o'clock, and the watch is therefore at around 6am. For that reason, photos of fakes will almost never have the hour chrono hand line up at the 12 o'clock position (only at midnight).

2. the 100 marker on the tachymeter scale is notoriously off. It should be more in the middle of the two markers it's between, not down toward the 110 number. This is also visible in davidbii's third photo. On my real speedmaster professional, the 100 number lines up with around the 36 minute mark. The fake bezel will line up more with the 35 minute mark. It's a subtle difference, but a pretty obvious give-away.

The overall fit and finish of the "good" speedmaster fakes is really impressive. You won't have much luck looking at the bracelet or lugs, etc., since those tend to be pretty accurate. But the subdial functionality, spacing, and bezel are good places to look. I was interested in the "rep" for a while before getting my "gen" speedmaster professional, and now I'd never look back.


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## yande

OmegaStalker said:


> infact why did they get rid of it and put on a white painted logo?


Great question that one. I love applied logos, but they just don't do them on every model. No sort of consistency to it either from what I have read.

As regards the OP's question: Buy the Seller.
I saw a very scary video through a link here on this forum, about 6 months ago, showing some replica Speedmasters out of China. They were interpreted as the best that some had seen. I can't find that YouTube link, but if anyone can, post it up, please as we all could learn from it.


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## WIS_Chronomaster

Subdial spacing is a massive give away on this one, as said above a good comparison is between the Speedy Reduced and the Pro.


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## downtempo76

I think this is the one.


EDIT: link deleted. I think it's against WUS rules. I'm not taking chances.


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## OmegaStalker

downtempo76 said:


> I think this is the one.
> 
> EDIT: link deleted. I think it's against WUS rules. I'm not taking chances.


can you PM me the link by any chance?


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## tic tock

David, It was useful to come across this post! An old friend just gave me their 'speedmaster' which has sat in a drawer for years. The crown fell off a few years ago when he knocked it against a cupboard - he left the watch on and sometime later went swimming in the sea forgetting about the crown, needless to say salt water entered the watch and it hasnt worked for years. I was assuming a service on an omega to try & save it might be hundreds of ££'s and I was trying to work out what type of seedmaster it was and came across your post - im now starting to think he got spun on ebay I seem to remember saying he spent around £800 - £900 at the time and was very proud of it - looking at the dials im now thinking it may well come off some container ship from Asia! Im not sure if I have the heart to tell him he might have got spun around.
I would appreciate if you have a second or anyone else from the forum could take a quick look at the dial face to kindly give me some advice to if its worth investing in / genuine ; & if it is what are peoples thoughts on salt water ingress?
Thanks again for the post, it would be great to hear back from some members re. advice,
All the Best
Dom


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## yande

Tic toc, I am glad you did not rush in where fools fear to tread!! I learnt that by experience by the way... To me it looks like a credible Omega Speedmaster 3510.50 (Reduced) Here's mine for a comparison. 
NB. There are the Omega Speedmaster Professional's, and among many other Speedmaster's there is the Reduced. Here's mine, well actually both of mine. Professional 3570.50 at 42mm and 3510.50 at 39mm. There is a wealth of info here on WUS about the Omega Speedmaster Reduced, just put that in the search slot above.

I am not authority on fakes, but a quick glance, the 3510.50 that you pictured above looks pretty good. As far as value, well it is not too much off the mark, especially if you take a few years off it. Let's just say that you would not get a Speedmaster Professional for that price, a real one that is.
Welcome to the forum tic toc and I hope you stick around.

Oh and another thing... They are a very expensive Speedmaster to get serviced due to the Dubois Deprez chronograph module attached to he movement. (The stop watch part) You can search that also! Perhaps not even a lot of change left over from the original watch's worth, but perhaps someone with more 3510.50 service experience could correct me on that. (Hopefully as even though mine keeps great time, it has not been serviced for ....well... a bloody long time.) I dread that thought!


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## tic tock

Mark Great to hear back from you - it sounds like a mix bag then it may well be original but the servicing and repair from the salt water ingress may well render it a right off. Im not sure about Australian dollars but somewhere in my mind I was thinking maybe investing £400 on servicing if it was original to bring her back to life. It needs a crystal and a crown & for all I know a complete movement ! (this is reading out worse than the state of my love life at the moment ;-) ). I think i'd be shy of spending too much more without knowing if it would be reliable after sinking that much.

I see Omega UK will carry out a free inspection/quote, which im sure will have me reaching for a box of tissues! but I might try get their opinion to see if its salvageable then try and find someone like you say who can carry out a good level of service / repair. I guess the only other option is trying to sell it as is - im assuming there might be some residual value - but in a way i'd like to try breath some life into her, although money isnt my strong suit at the moment!

Really appreciate hearing from you Mark - you might have helped get her back on the road versus going into another drawer for years on end  Good to see you guys sporting the watches, be nice to think I might be able to get this old girl looking as smart without blowing a hole in the UK economy!

Be good any more suggestions for UK servicing / omega etc thoughts if anyones got any info!

Thanks Again,

Tic Tock


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## Leedsboy

Hi every body, 

New poster here  

Iv recently just purchased a omega seamaster quartz watch model number 2541

Iv just noticed that they is no omega logo on the helium valve!! 

Is this a sign it coud be a fake? 

Thanks in advanced


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## scamp007

Leedsboy said:


> Hi every body,
> 
> New poster here
> 
> Iv recently just purchased a omega seamaster quartz watch model number 2541
> 
> Iv just noticed that they is no omega logo on the helium valve!!
> 
> Is this a sign it coud be a fake?
> 
> Thanks in advanced


There is an Omega 'Fakebusters' section at the top of the main Omega page, post some pictures of your watch in there and we should be able to tell you either way.


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## daleks

I deal on a daily base with watches and jewelry. There are many signs the watch you are buying might be fake. 

1). Listen to the sellers story. I rarely had a watch that was handed down to them from a friend and a family member that was real. It usually starts with "My grandfather or dad or uncle or friend gave it to me". They gave it to you because they knew it was fake. If it wasn't they would have kept it. That being said, it's a very general statement as I gave my 13 year old son some very nice watches including a vintage Omega Seamaster. 

2). There are many levels of fakes out there from the $10 watch you buy in the back of a china fish market to the AAA Replicas some of which costing over $1000. Yes there are people who will spend $1000+ on a replica. I have seen a replica Panerai that compared side by side with a real one was indistinguishable. The correct movement, the original dial and the casing was immaculate. I have held a Presidential Rolex in my hand and if I wouldn't have tested the gold I wouldn't have found out it was fake as it was made out of 10k instead of 18k, bracelet and all. I was very impressed by the craftsmanship and attention to detail, including a real Rolex dial and movement. Why? Look at it from a crooks standpoint. Pick up a cheap rolex from a pawnshop for less than $1500, take the movement, dial etc. Buy a fake 10k gold casing from China (based on todays gold price should be had for about $2000). Put it all together and some will buy that watch for $5000-8k. It's sickening...

3) Which brings me to the next one... "frankenwatches". Watches put together from various donor watches, "usually" with REAL parts, sometimes not.

The thing is for a long time ETA and others sold their movements to anyone. It was a no-brainer to replicate a case and throw the real movement in there. I can still buy parts from wholesalers out there which could be used to make better fakes. Watch for the craftsmanship and less significant parts like the buckle, bracelet, etc, how it was polished, how does it feel. Look for markings, are they supposed to be stamped, engraved or lasered. Which piece is supposed to be polished or brushed. Some watch cases are stamped and others are milled. Do you know the difference and how it should look like/feel like. One thing that replicas usually fall flat on is the serial number. Do a serial search, they "usually" use the same serial for all their replicas. There are companies that will do a serial search for you.

Take the watch to a watch maker not the authorized dealer for authentication. The watchmaker has seen hundreds probably thousands. They have seen it all I bet (I'm not a watch maker). When taking it to an authorized dealer they will usually tell you up front that they can't authenticate it. Keep in mind those people for the most part are sales people not watch makers. Even if they have someone knowledgeable on staff they can't tell you its fake. What if it is real. They are not willing to take the risk of being sued. If they are unsure they may tell you that they cannot authenticate it.

Use this as my $0.02 when buying a used watch (or a new one from a non-authorized dealer) in the future. I've gotten burned in the past and I will take every and any precaution that this never happens again.


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## Pobrien1968

Real or fake???


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## scamp007

scamp007 said:


> There is an Omega 'Fakebusters' section at the top of the main Omega page, post some pictures of your watch in there and we should be able to tell you either way.





Pobrien1968 said:


> Real or fake???


See my post above, this is the best place to get a response.


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## Pobrien1968

Thx. I posted there


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