# Franken of the week...



## ill-phill

My contestant and personal favorite :-d

Greetings
Phil


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## OKEAH

*No!*

No, no!

This is the famous and ultra rare SPORTSMANSKIYE

(awarded to the fastest running Navigator of the Soviet Airforce Bomber division!)

;-)

:-d


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## rproch

*Re: No!*

This is awsome! Second hand is from Slava! Only gold Komandirskie case is missing here...


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## JKang

*Re: No!*



OKEAH said:


> No, no!
> 
> This is the famous and ultra rare SPORTSMANSKIYE
> 
> (awarded to the fastest running Navigator of the Soviet Airforce Bomber division!)
> 
> ;-)
> 
> :-d


Hahahahahahah!! Almost spewed my dinner at the screen! Hilarious!


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## sllee

Truly an abomination of the worst kind!
Lee


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## vejarmr2

wow!

This could be a fun thread, hopefully others will post pics as well.


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## nikarlo

And this is a franken?


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## TZAG

No! This is original Generalskie |>


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## rproch

Franken of the week part II. Those Ukrainian magicians keep surprising me...


The price is 80$ - not so bad, not so bad b-)
If you are interested (for some bizzare reason) search for 'molnia tank' on eBay.


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## michele

rproch said:


>


Finally, a serious thread about serious fakes! :roll: :-d

About the Sportivnje...that's incredible. Now they fakes even the most classic and diffused vintage russians! o|


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## The Time

ill-phill said:


> My contestant and personal favorite :-d
> 
> Greetings
> Phil


That one is just taking the pi$$ lol


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## TZAG

omg :-x


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## Militarywatchdude

Wow It's about time Longines made a tradition Russian model! :-d


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## rproch

This one hits the roof. And it's offered by the seller from Czech Republic, not Ukrainian! Do you think it is working?

Seller's description:

==========
_REGULATEUR COLLECTIBLE VINTAGE WRIST WATCH_
_MOLNIJA_
_Introducing to your attention beautiful antique watches._
_Watches are in very good condition and fully working._
_I am glad to introduce unique and rare watches - MOLNIJA_
_Original mechanism , 18 jewels_
_Original BLACK dial._
_Mechanism, dial, case, hands are in ideal condition!_
_Very good watches to your collection or for everyday use!_
_Size of watches: 49 mm_

_Thickness: 15 mm_
_18 Jewels_
_All parts - face, hands, case - all original and in perfect condition._

_You can wear this watch every day or add to your collection of antique watches._​
==========


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## tomshep

The Longines 12l in that might be a litte Franken itself as I can see "68N" on the plate which suggests that it is a 12.68N, sweep version of the 12.68Z which I'm always banging on about. That is an interesting fake as the base calibre is far superior to a real Sturmanskie. Some kind of Record?;-) No, definitely Longines:-d


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## domi

I humbly submit the new Vostok 'Steampunk' Saturn! o|


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## rproch

Too much dope for this watchmaker...


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## Davide

domi said:


> I humbly submit the new Vostok 'Steampunk' Saturn! o|


Probably it was nice before all the wheels were put on the dial. o|o|


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## Marc One

Recently seen on the Bay...
Looks like parts are now becoming availale for all DIY enthusiasts out there! :-d ;-)

Marc One


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## James Haury

rproch said:


> This one hits the roof. And it's offered by the seller from Czech Republic, not Ukrainian! Do you think it is working?
> 
> Seller's description:
> 
> ==========
> _REGULATEUR COLLECTIBLE VINTAGE WRIST WATCH_
> _MOLNIJA_
> _Introducing to your attention beautiful antique watches._
> _Watches are in very good condition and fully working._
> _I am glad to introduce unique and rare watches - MOLNIJA_
> _Original mechanism , 18 jewels_
> _Original BLACK dial._
> _Mechanism, dial, case, hands are in ideal condition!_
> _Very good watches to your collection or for everyday use!_
> _Size of watches: 49 mm_​
> _Thickness: 15 mm_
> _18 Jewels_
> _All parts - face, hands, case - all original and in perfect condition._​
> _You can wear this watch every day or add to your collection of antique watches._​
> ==========


It looks like it was, a pocket watch.


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## MRC

Another cross-over here...
*Rare USSR Russian watch RAKETA 15 jewels*

*This watch are made in USSR on Petrodvorczov watch factory in march 1958. A watch mechanical and completely original. A watch in a normal condition and well work.*​


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## Vaurien

MRC said:


> Another cross-over here...
> 
> 
> *A watch in a normal condition and well work.*​


And the crown is crooked too :roll:


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## colt

domi said:


>


russian watches are truly amazing, you can reassemble them in any order you wish... here it's movement on top :-d


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## MRC

"Russian USSR Wristwatch KIROVSKIE" 

Uralskie or Kiral?


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## MRC

More blendings...


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## watch22

Nobody has posted here for a while ....

How about this Boctok Kirovskie Crab?


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## Vaurien

watch22 said:


> Nobody has posted here for a while ....
> 
> How about this Boctok Kirovskie Crab?


Sorry for handso| 
Where is the second hand, by the way?


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## watch22

Vaurien said:


> Where is the second hand, by the way?


The missing Raketa second hand? It was probably used to make Poljot Slava


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## luk

They are really frankens. Ukraina is a big watch factory.


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## MRC

A time paradox...?


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## Crazypeter

OMG...this is what I come back to?


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## watch22

Crab - Poljot?


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## Vaurien

watch22 said:


> Crab - Poljot?


This watch stems from two nice watches, so now it's a "doubly nice" watch. So, why am I so sad, for the old original watches?:-d


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## roo7

Hmmm, I don't think this post classified as a Franken of the week but it's too much !










I saw this listed with a starting bid of $500 and there's 1 bid within the first hour (bidder has 0 feedback)!










I got mine at a tenth of that price !


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## watch22

I hope that $500 watch is solid gold. And lots of it.


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## roo7

watch22 said:


> I hope that $500 watch is solid gold. And lots of it.


Oh.. that could be the reason.. hmmm :think:


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## Chascomm

watch22 said:


> Crab - Poljot?


It is plausible. The last of the crab cases were still being used when 1st Moscow started using Poljot as an export brand, which was a couple of years before they adopted it as their domestic brands as well. So there are export Kirovskie, Rodina and Sportivnie watches all labelled Poljot.


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## watch22

Chascomm said:


> It is plausible. The last of the crab cases were still being used when 1st Moscow started using Poljot as an export brand, which was a couple of years before they adopted it as their domestic brands as well. So there are export Kirovskie, Rodina and Sportivnie watches all labelled Poljot.


Meet the parents


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## Chascomm

watch22 said:


> Meet the parents


OK, I can see now that the raised batons on the dial are an unlikely feature when combined with the crab chapter ring.


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## watch22

Chascomm said:


> OK, I can see now that the raised batons on the dial are an unlikely feature when combined with the crab chapter ring.


Right. It's also incredibly ugly 

Quite an accomplishment - as Vaurien pointed out: take 2 very nice watches and make 1 ugly one.


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## atarisan

so tempting..... but still so not right......
I may be wrong as newbies...


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## Vaurien

atarisan said:


> so tempting..... but still so not right......
> I may be wrong as newbies...


I can see that the dial is reprinted, the hands are not right, the crown is not the 15 J crown.
Maybe I'm wrong, but there are too many incorrect things in this watch <|


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## rproch

<| The movement is ZIM and not 1MWF, too.


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## watch22

Japanese - Russian collaboration?


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## Vaurien

watch22 said:


> Japanese - Russian collaboration?


Something in that watch remembers me something.... :-d


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## roo7

2209 has date ?


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## watch22

roo7 said:


> 2209 has date ?


Those clever Japanese Seiko/Seico engineers found a way ....


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## roo7

:rodekaart


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## atarisan

roo7 said:


> :rodekaart


Super rare....Only one piece left in the whole wide world.... hahahhaaao|


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## shadow_ru

It's pity to see such a good dial in so awful surroundings.


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## roo7

Yes, the dial is perfect.


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## roo7

Almost fell of the chair with this...

made in former USSR by factory POLJOT, This is limited version of well known poljot vibro alarm.

A Poljot with a 4 o'clock crown.









Or a 2612 with a missing alarm module..









RARE ?? Limited version ?? one of a kind ?? o|o|


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## sci

I know this watch is franken. Because I franked it intentionally 
Thanks to the great service of the seller of my Komandirskie (their banner is on the top of the page), I was able to get a new Amphibian case the next working day and to have this gem (seems I have some chrome incompatibility - my skin destroys the plating too fast).


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## roo7

A Strela-Kirov Chronograph ?


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## Lucidor

If this is not frankencraft, I am missing a vital part in Soviet horology (which, on the other hand, is not that unlikely):










Someone is on the bait though... If this is fake, the seller has gone through some trouble in making in look vintage. So I am in a state of confusion; why going through the trouble of faking something this unusual? Could it be real after all? Please educate me.


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## roo7

I saw that. ;-) 

The movement is a typcial 3602 or the earlier yk-6. I'm guess they took the trouble to modify the pinions layout or something.

I haven't seen any Soviet regulator dial/movement so far.


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## atarisan

it seems like good sound profit for selling these through the bay...


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## mjmorrill08

Marc One said:


> Recently seen on the Bay...
> Looks like parts are now becoming availale for all DIY enthusiasts out there! :-d ;-)
> 
> Marc One


 I dont know what is wrong with a new dial as long as its correct..i mean people paint their cars, right?


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## Lucidor

atarisan said:


> it seems like good sound profit for selling these through the bay...


Yes, but the fact that there is a bid despite the rather steep starting price ($199) may also be the seller trying to get the auction going. All he needs is one fish to take the bait.


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## roo7

mjmorrill08 said:


> I dont know what is wrong with a new dial as long as its correct..i mean people paint their cars, right?


Well, there's a certain limit to restoring a watch, like cleaning the dial, re-luming the dials/hands etc.

A fake dial is probably crossing the line for most of the collectors, as the watch is no longer authentic.


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## mjmorrill08

roo7 said:


> Well, there's a certain limit to restoring a watch, like cleaning the dial, re-luming the dials/hands etc.
> 
> A fake dial is probably crossing the line for most of the collectors, as the watch is no longer authentic.


 I own a classic car, and had it repainted the same color..perhaps that will make it not as collectable ( I personally prefer mine with no rust holes but hey..I may be nutty!) As long as the face is a perfect repro, Id rather wear a Russian watch that looked new than one that had been sitting in a pond for a couple of years..( it had a new face at one time) just a thought, to each his own, I understand the history thing, but if I didnt want to wear it because it was too rough looking ..well it would be like trailering my classic car to shows..what fun would that be?


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## roo7

mjmorrill08 said:


> I own a classic car, and had it repainted the same color..perhaps that will make it not as collectable ( I personally prefer mine with no rust holes but hey..I may be nutty!) As long as the face is a perfect repro, Id rather wear a Russian watch that looked new than one that had been sitting in a pond for a couple of years..( it had a new face at one time) just a thought, to each his own, I understand the history thing, but if I didnt want to wear it because it was too rough looking ..well it would be like trailering my classic car to shows..what fun would that be?


I don't own a car, but maybe the right comparison will be repainting a car is as good as cleaning up the dial or the case of the watch.

Changing the engine (throwing out the old, replacing a brand new, perhaps another model's engine if it's possible) and the doors of the car is as bad as replacing the movement and the dial of the watch.

:-d

Well, like you said, one man's meat is another man's poison.

(Of course, we all would like our watches to be as close to a NOS condition as possible. ;-))


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## mjmorrill08

Yes NOS is the grail, but tough to find! I have been looking for a Gagarin Shturmanskie (even a reissue would be nice..without the date!) But cant seem to find one with either the right hands, or the correct movement...I'll just keep looking!


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## roo7

Hybrids ?





































:rodekaart


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## domi

This Strela is for sale... but wait, something isn't right...

- Wrong hands, should not taper
- Wrong case, polished sides, lugs slightly wrong shape (though this could be because they had the edges polished off by a machine)
- Chinese-made dial see the indices are cut wrong at subdials
- Wrong crown, should be slim and stick out less

Yet the overall effect is quite good, providing you don't look too closely. The devil is in the details, which seem to have been missed by 17 bidders so far. :-(


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## atarisan

people will just go crazy going against a strela........


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## roo7

Should we start a new thread with identifying the outright fake Strelas and 15/17J Shturmanskie ?

Maybe a post with the ebay item id and a picture ?

We can limit the watches with fakes dials. As those are fake on purpose to make a profit. 

Watches with wrong hands or crown should be left out as collectors may go after them for surgery :-d

Any comments ?


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## roo7

xxxxx6957714









xxxxx7076397









Fake dials for sale









I don't know about this, looks crazy enough.

xxxxx8882900


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## Xantiagib

How about this one...


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## roo7

Xantiagib said:


> How about this one...


I saw this.

Shot of the movement 









It's a 3017 movement with 1MWF signed on it.

I'm guessing some one could have swapped the Venus 150 with 1MWF 3017 movement to pass off as a Movado watch. :think:

Here's a picture of a Movado Chronograph but I can't see if it's a 30min or 45min chrono.










http://www.gregsteer.net/IWC/Chronographs/Chronographs.htm

Interesting read too.. :-!

It even explains the need additional 3,6,9 minute markers on the minute sub-dial. (This is new to me.)



> Notice the 3,6 and 9 minute markers on the minute counter for timing phone calls (these were charged in three minute intervals).


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## Xantiagib

It looks just like they redialed a normal Strela.... the raised numerals are strela like and not movado like

They probably did the subdials as well.

Has some missing parts in the movement... if any of us here rescue it I have parts that could get this going and some dials (but only later ones) 

I may bid if it goes cheap but I doubt it with that name on it... and not working properly..!


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## roo7

o|o|:rodekaart:rodekaart

But, look at the sub dial, I got to give it to them for their creativity.. :-d


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## roo7

xxxxx5183586


















Redial :rodekaart


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## Lucidor

roo7 said:


> xxxxx5183586
> Redial :rodekaart


...and wrong register hand, and wrong crown.


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## roo7

:rodekaart:rodekaart:rodekaart

xxxxx5681860



















Seller is a "professional re-dialer" :-d



> Attention collectors!
> Unique technique for your watch antique!
> Send me your broken dial and receive it back repainted and fully restored. New cover looks like white porcelain. Chips and scratches disappear completely. Upon your request I will make another font and another inscription. The cost is $25 US per dial, money back guaranteed if you are not satisfied.


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## herbie65

Bought this one on eBay.
Probably a redial, right?


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## roo7

herbie65 said:


> Bought this one on eBay.
> Probably a redial, right?


I hate to break the news, but it seems to be a re-dial. Look at the hour markers at 2,4,8,10 and compare it with the Poljot Strela from https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=318550.


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## Lucidor

The chronograph seconds hand is also incorrect for that dial but would perhaps be correct for a paddle hands Poljot/Sekonda. If you bough that watch from who I thought you did (tr...), he has quite a reputation for making watches from various parts to sell them as "100% original". Depending on what was stated in the ad, you could maybe ask for refund.


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## phd

Has anyone seen the ebay auctions by a certain jacd0023 on a certain Bay of the e variety? Not exactly franken, perhaps, but all the dials seem to have had the manufacturer's logo (eg "Raketa") re-painted rather obviously. Shame, as there are some otherwise nice pieces there.


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## Vaurien

phd said:


> Has anyone seen the ebay auctions by a certain jacd0023 on a certain Bay of the e variety? Not exactly franken, perhaps, but all the dials seem to have had the manufacturer's logo (eg "Raketa") re-painted rather obviously. Shame, as there are some otherwise nice pieces there.


It looks like he had completely cleaned all the dial, and afterwards re-painted by hand not only the logo, but also minute marks. Often also "Sdelano b CCCP" has disappeared. :-s


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## mjmorrill08

Hey! Even I had trouble coloring inside the lines in grammer school...LOL


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## mjmorrill08

phd said:


> Has anyone seen the ebay auctions by a certain jacd0023 on a certain Bay of the e variety? Not exactly franken, perhaps, but all the dials seem to have had the manufacturer's logo (eg "Raketa") re-painted rather obviously. Shame, as there are some otherwise nice pieces there.


He does have a really nice Elektronika 1 that ends in 3 hours tho, one of the nicest ive come across, just whish I could find one that nice with the original matching band!


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## watch22

mjmorrill08 said:


> He does have a really nice Elektronika 1 that ends in 3 hours tho, one of the nicest ive come across, just whish I could find one that nice with the original matching band!


I have one with the original band. I agree - hold out for the original band.


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## mjmorrill08

Very nice!!...I will do was a little short this week, so I wasnt able to get the one I wanted, but they do come up all the time...


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## Lucidor

How about this "original" Strela... :-(


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## watch22

I wish I knew what was wrong with that picture. The Strela is the last major missing piece to my collection. I fear bidding on ones I see on ebay because I can't spot a well made fake


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## Lucidor

watch22 said:


> I wish I knew what was wrong with that picture. The Strela is the last major missing piece to my collection. I fear bidding on ones I see on ebay because I can't spot a well made fake


The dial is fake as well as all the hands, except the hour hand. And the asking price is 499 euro!


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## roo7

watch22 said:


> I wish I knew what was wrong with that picture. The Strela is the last major missing piece to my collection. I fear bidding on ones I see on ebay because I can't spot a well made fake


I have posted a few fake strela and the dial comparison. Look at the hour markers.


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## watch22

OK - I'll study the comparison photos. What if the fakers get the hour markers right?


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## roo7

watch22 said:


> OK - I'll study the comparison photos. What if the fakers get the hour markers right?


That's gonna be very bad... :-(


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## Vaurien

watch22 said:


> OK - I'll study the comparison photos. What if the fakers get the hour markers right?


A Strela white dial of about 40-50 years ago should show its age.
:think:


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## Xantiagib

When the fakers get the redials 100% right we will fail to spot them as fakes...


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## watch22

Xantiagib said:


> When the fakers get the redials 100% right we will fail to spot them as fakes...


Exactly - I'm waiting for a reputable seller to offer a nice Strela.


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## roo7

oh well...


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## Musical_Box

Here's a watch I've recently purchased on ebay. I wish i had done more research before bidding, since it turns out this might be a recombination of three different Raketa watches.










apparently borrowing the case and (hopefully) the movement from this:










the dial and second hand from this:










and the hour and minute hands from this one:


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## watch22

I don't get it - which is the second hand and which is the minute?


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## storyteller

*rare Volna from 1st and 2MWF*

The second Volna I introduced three weeks ago, I bought it recently and still think it might be an old franken, it has small signature on the inner side of the back cover from the watchmaker who repaired it in 1980s and maybe renovated the inscription with ready-made stamps. The first one seems newer. I seriously consider buying it, to have a set. Sellers' photos.


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## Seele

Since Volna, Almaz and particularly Vostok Precision/Precision Class are desirable these days, I feel the proportion of those which are not straight might be higher than average; there might be a need for a definitive article on them!


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## sci

*Re: rare Volna from 1st and 2MWF*

I didn't get the idea to have 1MChZ and 2MChZ logos on a ChChZ/Vostok watch...


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## Vaurien

They are so strange, never seen before, that they SHOULD be real...;-)


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## ltri

*PILOT AIR RECONNAISSANCE SPY RUSSIA MILITARY MINT WATCH*

This listing is the longest listing I have ever seen on ebay. I copied the listing into a word document and did a word count it was 5209 words long. The paragraph that acually describes the watch was only 215 words.


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## storyteller

Splendid! This matches the best achievements of trustedboy and collectibles.ua, and maybe in 50 years will be listed as 'folk art, Eastern Europe, early 21st century' in some museum.


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## mjmorrill08

Still a handsome watch! Dr. Frankenstein apparently has taste!


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## avers

To me the best frankens always been WWII period watches with German motifs. I mean seriously - can you imagine Russian watch factories making a pilot watch with German Luftwaffe planes or with Panther/Tiger/U-Boat logos?

That is just historically impossible... Who in his right mind buys such watches?


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## Seele

avers said:


> To me the best frankens always been WWII period watches with German motifs. I mean seriously - can you imagine Russian watch factories making a pilot watch with German Luftwaffe planes or with Panther/Tiger/U-Boat logos?
> 
> That is just historically impossible... Who in his right mind buys such watches?


Like a Pobeda with Waffen SS markings then...

But to the Russian people who suffered greatly during WWII, these things are just in the worst possible taste. :rodekaart


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## avers

Seele said:


> Like a Pobeda with Waffen SS markings then...
> 
> But to the Russian people who suffered greatly during WWII, these things are just in the worst possible taste. :rodekaart


"Pobeda" means "Vistory" in Russian, specifically victory over Germany - that brand was established shortly after 1945 to commemorate Germany's defeat.

Besides bad taste - a Pobeda watch with German markings is impossible historically.


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## Seele

avers said:


> "Pobeda" means "Vistory" in Russian, specifically victory over Germany - that brand was established shortly after 1945 to commemorate Germany's defeat.
> 
> Besides bad taste - a Pobeda watch with German markings is impossible historically.


My point exactly, and I have seen those being offered!


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## Mister Mike

A Komandirskie from a parallel universe:


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## avers

Mister Mike said:


> A Komandirskie from a parallel universe:


Ouch! :rodekaart

Look at the crown...


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## watch22

So, how is the date indicated - with the missing Kocmoc date hand or using the date window at 12:00?


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## AID

watch22 said:


> So, how is the date indicated - with the missing Kocmoc date hand or using the date window at 12:00?


I would venture into a guess that a date window move at midnight and shows next date


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## sci

I saw this in auction today:









a little weird hands and crown, but the back shock me completely:








What the o| is that movement?


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## watch22

avers said:


> To me the best frankens always been WWII period watches with German motifs. I mean seriously - can you imagine Russian watch factories making a pilot watch with German Luftwaffe planes or with Panther/Tiger/U-Boat logos?
> 
> That is just historically impossible... Who in his right mind buys such watches?


Here's another Soviet commemorative dedicated to their good friends at the Luftwaffe :-(


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## michele

sci said:


> I saw this in auction today:
> a little weird hands and crown, but the back shock me completely:
> What the o| is that movement?


Definitely a fake, of course. Chascomm will enlight us about the type of Chinese movement used in it. Anyway, it looks like a total "reproduction" to me - am i wrong, or the caseback looks too rounded? 
Maybe it's one one of the infamous fakes made by the same company who makes Slava Sozvezdie:














































Or is it a stock case with Chinese movement?

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=31753


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## storyteller

Please don't laugh at a newbie - I am offered a very convincing-looking Poljot made in USSR lady's quartz watch. My question is if 1 MWF ever produced a lady's watch in Soviet era. I am 99% sure the answer is not, but again - the watch looks convincing. As an apology for this probably very stupid question, a rare Kirovskie from 2MWF.


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## Vaurien

storyteller said:


> Please don't laugh at a newbie - I am offered a very convincing-looking Poljot made in USSR lady's quartz watch. My question is if 1 MWF ever produced a lady's watch in Soviet era. I am 99% sure the answer is not, but again - the watch looks convincing. As an apology for this probably very stupid question, a rare Kirovskie from 2MWF.


Thank you for the Kirovskie!
I offer you this ebay #360094907870: A Poljot lady quartz watch.
Yes, i know: you could say that ebay seller are not trustable, but I think this one is quite trustworthy.
Just my 5 cents


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## robbra

How about a "SMERSH" from 1943" ??? Any takers at £391?
















But it does look impressive

Forgot to say that it's from a "trusted seller"


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## Melnyk

michele said:


>


crap i wish vostok made this watch. white tank in generalskie case


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## up2nogood

What of this chaps offerings?

re dials and re casing, but are the movements Russian or as advertised?








http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/demaxgo__W0QQ_armrsZ1


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## NumberSix




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## gsaronni

I would like to add this Franken: 
http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...86357&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

This is a Komandirskie inside of an Amphibia case. The result is beatiful, but is a franken watch IMHO


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## NumberSix

What about this beautiful Komandirskie while while you are at it? :-d


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## Mister Mike

Now the new Russian brands are being faked, too! I saw this new and inexpensive "Aviator" listed by more than one Ukrainian seller, and thought the brass skeleton hands didn't look right (among other things):










Sure enough, some of the the same sellers offer other versions of the same watch. This one has a pre-war fantasy dial:


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## michele

Mister Mike said:


> Now the new Russian brands are being faked, too! I saw this new and inexpensive "Aviator" listed by more than one Ukrainian seller, and thought the brass skeleton hands didn't look right (among other things):
> 
> Sure enough, some of the the same sellers offer other versions of the same watch. This one has a pre-war fantasy dial


The second one is even dedicated to Mikhail Gromov, who inspired a much more worthy Poljot watch some years ago (recently reprised by Juri Levenberg, with a Citizen 8215 automatic inside).

Horrible stuff, and i wonder where they got the cases. Some of those sellers are selling them together with original watches (as seen lot of times). Some others say that they are "in good conditions"...used movements?

Oh, and i have seen a _real _Raketa fake - this one (sold as Raketa on Ebay.com):



















It's an amazing thing though. It's a never-seen hybrid between two Raketa movements, the 2623 (24h) and the rare 2627 (automatic)...a Raketa 24H with automatic module!

At least they did something original :-d Dial is the usual "red-star-military-airplane-with-Russian-inscriptions" stuff. Case from some IWC-"inspired" watch? :think:

That "hybrid" movement (24H + automatic) is somehow cool though, because it was never produced in the reality. Another example of how people is silly, selling that watch as Raketa, instead of saying simply "hand-crafted watch with Raketa components" - wasted talent! :-x


----------



## ill-phill

look here... 

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=196009

strange strange.... :think:
Phil


----------



## michele

ill-phill said:


> look here...
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=196009
> 
> strange strange.... :think:
> Phil


Sure it's one of the most unusual fakes ever seen in my life. :think:


----------



## Vaurien

michele said:


> Sure it's one of the most unusual fakes ever seen in my life. :think:


So much strange and unusual fake watch, that I'm beginning to think it may be a good factory movement...:roll: 
:think:

Michele, you're a technician: is it so much difficult, to add an automatic module to a "normal" manual movement?


----------



## michele

Vaurien said:


> So much strange and unusual fake watch, that I'm beginning to think it may be a good factory movement...:roll:
> :think:
> 
> Michele, you're a technician: is it so much difficult, to add an automatic module to a "normal" manual movement?


Usually automatic movements have extra holes in the main plate to connect the automatic module with screws.

I don't know how they connected the automatic module to the basic hand-winding module, without those holes.
I never dismounted a Raketa 2627, so i don't know if the base plate is different in comparison with the 2623 hand-winding.


----------



## Seele

Whichever way they managed to build such a Frankensteinian movement in a watch like that, it is still vandalism to me.

By the way, I give kudos to this member who built a skeleton wrist watch using a Molnija 3603 movement:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=381040


----------



## NumberSix

I'm going to re-hijack the thread now.

These two go together, right?

Front:









Back:









I think that this is the most upsetting thing I have seen this week, the seller has ruined a PERFECTLY good Sturmie and a perfectly good Okeah dial to make a bastard-mongrel from hell. o|


----------



## Chascomm

michele said:


> Another example of how people is silly, selling that watch as Raketa, instead of saying simply "hand-crafted watch with Raketa components" - wasted talent! :-x


Exactly. I think that sums up the whole frankenwatch situation that is so familiar to all of us. Wasted talent.

Regarding the Poljot fakes:


michele said:


> Horrible stuff, and i wonder where they got the cases.


That would not be hard. Volmax are only releasing small production runs, of quantities too small for economical case production using Soviet-era technology. Whoever they buy the cases, crowns, hands etc from, will make enough to be able to sell them to Volmax at an acceptable price, and then sell off the surplus to whoever wants them. Those other customers also have access to the same Maktime movements that Volmax use.

Curiously the situation can go the other way, too. For example the first of the colourful (non cartoon) 'USSR'-marked Raketa 24 hour dials that appeared during the time when the factory seems to not have been making any complete watches. Such designs subsequently appeared on the company's own catalogue. I guess they saw a successful product built with Raketa parts and decided to order some of the same dial designs for themselves. For a while you could tell the difference between factory and external 'Raketa's because the authorised product was signed 'Made in Russia', but when they started using identical dials to the unauthorised products, it became a 'matter of opinion' as to what is a 'fake'.

Sorry for the rant, but when this forum has been accused (on a certain well-known social network) as being 'in the hands of pirates' because of discussions of this sort, it bothers me.


----------



## robbra

I agree but maybe Raketa shouldn't have been banned, just advised to be more thoughtful in posting. I, for one, welcomed their input regarding things being discussed in the factory because there is so much smoke and mirrors going on with Vostok, Slava and the rest of the Russian factories it was good to get an inside view, however biased.
Unless something happened I don't know about:think:


----------



## michele

robbra said:


> I agree but maybe Raketa shouldn't have been banned, just advised to be more thoughtful in posting. I, for one, welcomed their input regarding things being discussed in the factory because there is so much smoke and mirrors going on with Vostok, Slava and the rest of the Russian factories it was good to get an inside view, however biased.
> Unless something happened I don't know about:think:


Raketawatches has been banned because he wrote approximately 40 copies of the same "blacklist" in 2 days.

He added the blacklist to every Raketa-related posts, even very old posts not focused on the "fakes" theme.

I have deleted the first 20 posts, writing the reason of the posts deleted, but again he began to flood the forum. This means that he don't care at all of the forum rules. He was adding other and other posts, when he was banned (for 7 days).

Now we are deciding what to do. I hope they will be more reasonable.


----------



## robbra

I understand,michele, didn't know there were so many. I saw four or five of the posts and made a comment in another thread and with so many posts a ban of seven days seems fair and an opportunity for a rethink on their part.
I read the comments on Facebook and thought it was over the top but do hope they return to give as some more insider information.
:thanks


----------



## Seele

michele said:


> Oh, and i have seen a _real _Raketa fake - this one (sold as Raketa on Ebay.com):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's an amazing thing though. It's a never-seen hybrid between two Raketa movements, the 2623 (24h) and the rare 2627 (automatic)...a Raketa 24H with automatic module!
> 
> At least they did something original :-d Dial is the usual "red-star-military-airplane-with-Russian-inscriptions" stuff. Case from some IWC-"inspired" watch? :think:
> 
> That "hybrid" movement (24H + automatic) is somehow cool though, because it was never produced in the reality. Another example of how people is silly, selling that watch as Raketa, instead of saying simply "hand-crafted watch with Raketa components" - wasted talent! :-x


Trawling around eBay I have found another watch bearing the AK Homme name, and the case bears some resemblance to that...

(Edit: there is another one sold under the name Orkina.)


----------



## NumberSix

On eBay at the moment is this fine example. I will call it the Boris 'Specnaz" Yeltsin. Built in honor of the alternate universe where Boris Yeltsin was president of just the Russian Special Forces. o|


----------



## Melnyk

im sure this is a real right-move watch


----------



## Seele

It reminds me of a monstrous pizza I had several years ago. :-d


----------



## michele

Seele said:


> It reminds me of a monstrous pizza I had several years ago. :-d


:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d


----------



## NumberSix

Oh. my. god. people are bidding on it.


----------



## Chascomm

Seele said:


> It reminds me of a monstrous pizza I had several years ago. :-d


Looks like street pizza...


----------



## storyteller

Several weeks ago I posted a Volna from 1st MWF (attachment1). I thought that somebody had destroyed a good watch trying to embellish it. Yesterday I saw two more (attachment2), offered as spare parts. I wonder if somebody did not start producing the much sought-after Volna with calligraphic inscription on the dial and is selling now the first unsuccessful trials.


----------



## Seele

Ouch! That is one of the reasons that puts me off looking into getting a Vostok Precision Class/Volna/Almaz. :-(


----------



## YG1

Good re-dial. Proper letter "Ш"


----------



## 0jatakk0

This one is pretty awful...


----------



## michele

0jatakk0 said:


> This one is pretty awful...


One of the most shocking ones ever seen in my life.


----------



## unwatched

michele said:


> One of the most shocking ones ever seen in my life.


I was going to post it, but I see I got beaten to it. What the hell _is_that? Where did that dial come from?


----------



## 0jatakk0

I'm not sure what I like best on this one, the minute hand half-dipped in red paint or the digits on the outside and inside rings that look as if they were written out by a 4-year-old with a crayon?


----------



## Seele

Terrible waste: the case and other bits could have been tastefully and sympathetically restored :-(


----------



## storyteller

I like it! It has the same color scheme as my avatar, a Soviet poster from 1920s. Imagine it with longer hands, red parts of the hands going in the white section of the dial.


----------



## roo7

Wow, amazing where did they get the bezel ?? o|


----------



## michele

roo7 said:


> Wow, amazing where did they get the bezel ?? o|


Maybe from a coin-edge Raketa, but they were bigger. There were also ZIM with the same bezel design in that size, but bezel was fixed if i'm not wrong.


----------



## Seele

storyteller said:


> I like it! It has the same color scheme as my avatar, a Soviet poster from 1920s. Imagine it with longer hands, red parts of the hands going in the white section of the dial.


You ought to get yourself a "Radio Room" then :-d


----------



## michele

storyteller said:


> I like it! It has the same color scheme as my avatar, a Soviet poster from 1920s. Imagine it with longer hands, red parts of the hands going in the white section of the dial.


Mayakovskij would love it...i have also a strange Raketa "Potemkin" with a similar graphic (it's original, not a franken). I will post it later.


----------



## storyteller

Seele said:


> You ought to get yourself a "Radio Room" then :-d


I am working on that.


----------



## storyteller

Forth Volna from 1st MWF (seller's photo). This one very similar to mine from 2nd MWF. All of them with calligraphic inscription. What is going on?


----------



## Lucidor

storyteller said:


> I am working on that.


Only two? ;-)










Well, I got a bit overexcited. What shall I do with them?


----------



## storyteller

That was fast


----------



## Seele

Hey, I don't even have one! :-d


----------



## Mister Mike

Lucidor said:


> What shall I do with them?


Might as well send one or two my way. :-!


----------



## Fantasyvoyager

My contribution to this article ; my Frankin , Amphibian Vostok, personally I like the style.


----------



## Mister Mike

Komandirskie ...Alarm? And it's Заказ, to boot!


----------



## michele

Mister Mike said:


> Komandirskie ...Alarm? And it's Заказ, to boot!


I purchased one of those "Alarmskie" watches four years ago. Note the Komandirskie bezel! If i'm not wrong, they were featured even on a well-known book, but i'm not sure of that.

I discovered that the dial was made with adhesive paper, and the Komandirskie bezel was fitted on the Poljot case, making a groove on the whole circumference of the case (the bezel was working in both directions).

I have kept a pic of the watch, in loving memory :roll:. Too bad Vostok did not make something like this in the reality.


----------



## Vaurien

michele said:


> I purchased one of those "Alarmskie" watches four years ago. Note the Komandirskie bezel! If i'm not wrong, they were featured even on a well-known book, but i'm not sure of that.
> 
> I discovered that the dial was made with adhesive paper, and the Komandirskie bezel was fitted on the Poljot case, making a groove on the whole circumference of the case (the bezel was working in both directions).
> 
> I have kept a pic of the watch, in loving memory :roll:. Too bad Vostok did not make something like this in the reality.


So, also your Alarmskie :-d is zakaz! what could it mean? :think:


----------



## michele

Vaurien said:


> So, also your Alarmskie :-d is zakaz! what could it mean? :think:


That was made by order of some drunken Ministry of the Soviet Defense :-d


----------



## Melnyk

zakaz mo stolichnaya


----------



## SzabolcsToth

I found a Boctok precision "fake" watch, on the E-bay. With a paper dial. And to tell the truth this watch is not a precision, because it has got an almaz 18 j caliber. 

http://cgi.ebay.de/Russian-USSR-sea-watch-VOSTOK-WOSTOK-precision-class-/360274263895?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item53e204ff57


----------



## phd

I would like to nominate this piece for Franken of the Week, or possibly Franken of the Year:

http://cgi.ebay.it/OROLOGIO-SOVIETI...gi_da_Polso&hash=item255b836f6b#ht_500wt_1103

Where to begin? The dial looks like a Raketa dial for those with impaired vision, but the date window is clearly intended for the wearer's friend to use (or perhaps a magnifying glass is supplied with the watch). The date is misaligned, and the day and date wheels don't seem to match in typeface. The case does not look Raketish to me, but that's OK because it says "Slava: on the dial. The hour and minute hands are Raketa, but the second hand....?

And so far, we have not even looked at the 26 Jewel movement....

This seller gets 10/10 for creativity, at least.


----------



## michele

phd said:


> I would like to nominate this piece for Franken of the Week, or possibly Franken of the Year:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.it/OROLOGIO-SOVIETI...gi_da_Polso&hash=item255b836f6b#ht_500wt_1103
> 
> Where to begin? The dial looks like a Raketa dial for those with impaired vision, but the date window is clearly intended for the wearer's friend to use (or perhaps a magnifying glass is supplied with the watch). The date is misaligned, and the day and date wheels don't seem to match in typeface. The case does not look Raketish to me, but that's OK because it says "Slava: on the dial. The hour and minute hands are Raketa, but the second hand....?
> 
> And so far, we have not even looked at the 26 Jewel movement....
> 
> This seller gets 10/10 for creativity, at least.


IMO it's not a "patchwork". Slava already produced watches like that one, with dial in Raketa style. The day indicator is misaligned, but it's a common problem on calibers 2428 and 2427. The font is the same, the tone of white on day and date is slightly different, but i have seen even NOS watches with that difference.

The case is OK, the caseback was more often seen on Slava Medical, Slava "california" with black dial and pink numbers, and some "Perestrojka" models, but i think it's OK too.

About the 26 jewels, i remember that calibers 2414 have 21 or 24 jewels, calibers 2416 have 27 or 24 jewels. Don't remember if the caliber 2428 has a different number of jewels, anyway i can't read if there is "25" or "26" on the dial.


----------



## phd

Oh my goodness, Michele! I have clearly blundered in a major way. The fact that the watch was advertised as Raketa led me astray.... My apologies to the seller (even though he can't tell the difference between Raketa and Slava).

Michele, do you know when the "image upload" capability will be restored?


----------



## michele

phd said:


> Oh my goodness, Michele! I have clearly blundered in a major way. The fact that the watch was advertised as Raketa led me astray.... My apologies to the seller (even though he can't tell the difference between Raketa and Slava).
> 
> Michele, do you know when the "image upload" capability will be restored?


I don't know, currently i'm always using external links. :think: I know that Ernie is working on that.


----------



## watch22

michele said:


> I don't know, currently i'm always using external links. :think: I know that Ernie is working on that.


Image upload is still down? I didn't know that so I foolishly just uploaded an imgage on another thread


----------



## phd

What? It's working again?


----------



## YG1

http://global.ebay.com/KIROVSKIE_CHRONOGRAPH_MILITARY_WRIST_WATCH_USSR_1940s/120583454965/item


----------



## watch22

I don't know if this watch is franken, strange or just ugly. But it seems to be notable in some way.


----------



## azoria

Only in dreamland <|. Seems the date window is somewhat mis-aligned with date. Those hands remind me of Orient????o|o|o|


----------



## Marc One

Looks like a Volmax product, see link below (bottom right on web page)

http://www.smirs.com/index.php?cPath=87_93&filtr=1

Cheers

Marc One


----------



## azoria

I withdraw what I said . I`ve seen that link, and the watch is legit!!!b-)


----------



## watch22

azoria said:


> I withdraw what I said . I`ve seen that link, and the watch is legit!!!b-)


And lovely :roll:


----------



## 0jatakk0

And yet another lovely specimen from fleabay:










There's a fine line between outrageous and hilarious, and this one straddles that line.


----------



## watch22

_This is a lovely antique Russian Sputnik chronometer wristwatch in working condition.As one this watch is in very good condition but unfortunately the chronometer hand is missing. Produced 1960-1965 and has 17 jewels, the case is gold plated._

Too bad about the missing chronometer hand.


----------



## storyteller

A description of some restoration procedures appeared on a local forum. The author restored a watch of his own, but similar techniques might be used by frankenmasters.
- the brownish dial was cleaned using dentist tools till all the paint was removed.
- a white paint was applied to the clean surface. Given the advance of dental medicine and dental cosmetics, I presume that any variation of the white color could be achieved (so don't rely on the uniform patina).
- the hands were polished again with dentist machine.
- new inscriptions were applied 

I don't provide a link to the posting, because the author was restoring his own watch and should not be considered a frankenmaster. However, I often hear rumors about dentist equipment used for restoring / counterfeiting watches and this is the first time I see an actual demonstration. The final result:


----------



## roo7

I was keeping a look out for a 300M Vostok and I came across this listing.



















It has the 30 ATM case back, however as confirmed by the seller, it has 18mm lugs. From the past forum posts, they all comes with 22m lugs, so just be wary unless you are looking for a 30atm caseback. ;-)

But it's a very nice sample of the tonneau amphibian with paddle hands.


----------



## nht

roo7 said:


> It has the 30 ATM case back, however as confirmed by the seller, it has 18mm lugs. From the past forum posts, they all comes with 22m lugs, so just be wary unless you are looking for a 30atm caseback. ;-)


Pay attention to dial and movement too... ;-)


----------



## roo7

nht said:


> Pay attention to dial and movement too... ;-)


Oh yah, I just noticed it. o|


----------



## komandirskie

Franken Komandirskie on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Russian...=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f3e61fdf

I wish I could manage to save the image. The dial has raised gold letters, with graphics similar to some of the Hong Kong Slavas: a poorly drawn green tank with white and red diagonal stripes, perhaps supposed to be a flag of some sort, behind it. It's advertised as USSR, but the back is the imperial eagle.


----------



## Chascomm

komandirskie said:


> Franken Komandirskie on ebay:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Russian...=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item45f3e61fdf
> 
> I wish I could manage to save the image. The dial has raised gold letters, with graphics similar to some of the Hong Kong Slavas: a poorly drawn green tank with white and red diagonal stripes, perhaps supposed to be a flag of some sort, behind it. It's advertised as USSR, but the back is the imperial eagle.


The hour and minute hands are the correct Vostok items. The case is 100% Vostok. The bezel is correct. The crown concerns me. And of course the dial never left a watch factory in that condition. The star, logo and name look hand-painted to me.


----------



## michele

Chascomm said:


> The hour and minute hands are the correct Vostok items. The case is 100% Vostok. The bezel is correct. The crown concerns me. And of course the dial never left a watch factory in that condition. The star, logo and name look hand-painted to me.


Indeed, the hands looks suspect too. Maybe i'm wrong, but they are a bit too big, and the lumed section on recent Komandirskie is much smaller.

Numbers and inscriptions have something strange too, albeit very similar to the original. The crown is the most suspect part, possibly a sign of another movement inside.

Moreover, that seller mostly sells new watches, the "good used conditions" and the lack of a box are suspect too. Even in the worser periods, Vostok watches were always supplied with a box (cardboard or plastic).

Anyway, here is another (cosmetically perfect) Frankenwatch - Poljot Admiral (or Kapitan?) with China inside :-(


----------



## constantin-o-politan

roo7 said:


> I was keeping a look out for a 300M Vostok and I came across this listing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has the 30 ATM case back, however as confirmed by the seller, it has 18mm lugs. From the past forum posts, they all comes with 22m lugs, so just be wary unless you are looking for a 30atm caseback. ;-)
> 
> But it's a very nice sample of the tonneau amphibian with paddle hands.


Besides the lug span, Latin inscriptions on the dial but kyrillic caseback inscriptions, on the caseback it says the movement 2209 is housed in the case but from the image of movement one can simply notice the movement is 2214 contrary to the caseback information. Yes " as old watchmakers said that it is a marriage watch" but not the worst of all.


----------



## watch22

It's a Raketa and a Pobeda movement.


----------



## Mister Mike

This one might even be considered a SuperFranken


----------



## michele

Slava with (supposedly) Orient case - quite clever solution, Orient and Slava have both a button at 2 'o clock... :roll:


----------



## Chascomm

michele said:


> Slava with (supposedly) Orient case - quite clever solution, Orient and Slava have both a button at 2 'o clock... :roll:


That's not an ORIENT, it's a QREINI ! :-d

I know because I've got one, but mine has the dial to match the back, and a Chinese day disk substituted. I think the way it went was that the Orient SK was a very popular watch in Asia in the late 1970s. So the Hong Kong cheap brands put out their own version, originally with a crown at 2 o'clock and double internal bezels (as there was no need for a date-change button) i.e. a triple-crown case. In the 1980s, when the HK watchmakers ran out of crap-grade Swiss movements, they switched to USSR-sourced movements (better movement, same price). I've bought a Hong Kong pocket watch in 1985 that was probably designed for a Swiss ES95 but has a Poljot 2609. This change of parts source encouraged somebody to push the Orient homages far closer to the original by using the Slava movement.

And let's not forget that one of Slava's last authentic new models was a kind of modern Orient SK homage with 2427 movement. That was probably the inspiration for the joker who put together this 'vintage' Slorient.


----------



## michele

Chascomm said:


> And let's not forget that one of Slava's last authentic new models was a kind of modern Orient SK homage with 2427 movement. That was probably the inspiration for the joker who put together this 'vintage' Slorient.


Yes, indeed there was something strange on the caseback, i remember the fishy QREINI brand...and the "Slorient" brand made my day :-d

Same thing happens with CJIABA watches, those missing segments in the letters are a timeless trick :roll:

About the real, Orient-style, Slava model that you are talking about, i'm thinking to buy it since lot of time, but i find the price (€ 102,00) way too high...more than an Orient. And it seems not available elsewhere. :think:


----------



## Seele

Chascomm,

"QREINI" could be said as an "imitation" created to confuse customers to think they're getting an Orient. Some other brands were created for less scrupulous intents.

A little while ago I found a watch made in HK some time in the 70s, I think, with the brand "ASEIKON"; the seller was honest and did not pretend it to be anything else. When received by the distributors or retailers they could just take the movement out and wipe off the first and last letter... :-|


----------



## Chascomm

Seele said:


> Chascomm,
> 
> "QREINI" could be said as an "imitation" created to confuse customers to think they're getting an Orient. Some other brands were created for less scrupulous intents.
> 
> A little while ago I found a watch made in HK some time in the 70s, I think, with the brand "ASEIKON"; the seller was honest and did not pretend it to be anything else. When received by the distributors or retailers they could just take the movement out and wipe off the first and last letter... :-|


ASEIKON
BASEIKONE
LESEIKORI

:roll:


----------



## michele

Here is an old post about Aseikon on WUS:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=270984

Am i wrong, or there is a Ruhla M-24 inside? :-s

Here is another one with (supposedly) 23 jewels, currently for sale on an Italian site.










and here another one, conceptually very close to the "Slorient" watch seen before. Movement is an EB (Bettlach) if i'm not wrong:


----------



## Vaurien

Chascomm said:


> ASEIKON
> BASEIKONE
> LESEIKORI
> 
> :roll:


Well, this are really "fraud watches", not franken, IMHO.
I think a franken watch could arise from needing of making a watch somehow running. Maybe they were born due to lack of spare parts, or so on. Not a really fraud, unless the seller wants to foolish me :roll:


----------



## Melnyk

Soviet DIVER Watch WOSTOK 200M AMPHIBIAN Yellow Dial - eBay (item 190410847136 end time Jul-28-10 02:45:48 PDT)


----------



## Chascomm

Melnyk said:


> Soviet DIVER Watch WOSTOK 200M AMPHIBIAN Yellow Dial - eBay (item 190410847136 end time Jul-28-10 02:45:48 PDT)


:think:

Dress-style 2414 dial, date mechanism and cannon pinion, with an early 2409A base movement in a 2209 Ministry case with 22mm lugs.

There's somebody with a bottomless parts bin...


----------



## michele

Chascomm said:


> :think:
> 
> Dress-style 2414 dial, date mechanism and cannon pinion, with an early 2409A base movement in a 2209 Ministry case with 22mm lugs.
> 
> There's somebody with a bottomless parts bin...


The dial-hands-movement assembly was probably swapped from a first-generation 2414 dress watch (bevelled bridges).

Then the guy fitted the combo in an old Ministry case. 99% of the USSR-made Ministry Amphibia were automatic (21 jewels 2416), the only one with an old-generation hand-winding movement (2214) was seen some time ago in some factory pictures.

The caseback has been probably swapped from an Amphibia tonneau, hence the 2209 inscription.

Anyway, not only those watches are often messed up, but also sold for relatively high prices. But, hey, the crystal is probably original...it has more wrinkles than a Egyptian mummy. :-d


----------



## Melnyk

found the proper dial for it
Russian USSR Amphibian antimagnetic Watch VOSTOK - eBay (item 300449081480 end time Jul-30-10 12:04:59 PDT)


----------



## michele

Melnyk said:


> found the proper dial for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian USSR Amphibian antimagnetic Watch VOSTOK - eBay (item 300449081480 end time Jul-30-10 12:04:59 PDT)


Another suspect watch. The balance wheel bridge has been replaced for sure (note the bevelled edge - the rest of the movement is not bevelled).


----------



## Melnyk

not to mention the 21 jewel inscription on the dial and im 99% sure that dial was only on the original ministry case


----------



## Seele

Actually I would not mind having that dial!


----------



## michele

Melnyk said:


> not to mention the 21 jewel inscription on the dial and im 99% sure that dial was only on the original ministry case


Maybe i'm wrong, but i feel that that one was the only dial mounted on USSR-made Ministry Amphibia (type-71x case).

Unless i don't remember some other variants :think: but every time i see an old (21-jewels, USSR) Ministry Amphibia, it is equipped with black-anthracite dial and "coffin-shaped" marker at 12.

(cool nickname, eh? :-x )


----------



## Melnyk

Russia CCCP 17 Jewels Manual-winding Men Watch - eBay (item 130415840918 end time Aug-04-10 09:57:07 PDT)


----------



## Chascomm

Melnyk said:


> Russia CCCP 17 Jewels Manual-winding Men Watch - eBay (item 130415840918 end time Aug-04-10 09:57:07 PDT)


Case, bezel, back, gasket, dial and crown are all original. Looks like the movement died and was replaced by a Chinese Standard automatic. The hands were probably transfered with the movement because they fit.

"*Authenticity Guaranteed!*" :-d


----------



## Melnyk

see not all franken doctors are us ukrainians. b-)


----------



## roo7

And it's a manual winding watch !


----------



## constantin-o-politan

Hi All,

Another frankenskie of the week runner up, komandirskie dial, hands, in tonneau case, from ebay numbered 300451816364. And the image from the dealer's site:


----------



## chas1869

Here's my nomination, ebay # 140438117222.


----------



## Mister Mike

chas1869 said:


> Here's my nomination, ebay # 140438117222.


The worst part is that this is being sold by a forum member who knows better. :rodekaart


----------



## Melnyk

Mister Mike said:


> The worst part is that this is being sold by a forum member who knows better. :rodekaart


yeah im kind of disappointed ive bought many watches off of them


----------



## michele

Not a franken...definitively a luxury Vostok anyway. :-d

Too bad, it was perfect, original and very nice, albeit not rare. :-( :-|


----------



## watch22

Somebody sacrificed a Rolex to gussy up this Komandirskie?


----------



## Mister Mike

I'm suspicious of this Zlatoust diver. I was excited to see one with a clean dial (no anchor, diving helmet, etc.) and an undecorated caseback, but something doesn't seem right. It was advertised as having a Type 1 movement as a true Zlat should, but there were no movement photos. Plus, I think the screws in the dial might suggest that a Molnija movement is fitted. I can't tell from the photos if the case is stainless or plated. In short, I'm not sure if it's real, a Franken, or an earlier Molnija-powered "reissue" with a plain caseback and undecorated dial (if there ever was such a thing).


----------



## Lucidor

The screws in the dial are in the correct places. At least they are identical to my two Zlatoust watches, and they both host Type-1 movement. The watch looks legit to me. But I'm no expert, so let's wait for the more knowledgeable members.


----------



## Mister Mike

Lucidor said:


> The screws in the dial are in the correct places. At least they are identical to my two Zlatoust watches, and they both host Type-1 movement. The watch looks legit to me. But I'm no expert, so let's wait for the more knowledgeable members.


I stand corrected -- I always though that the screws were a later addition to make the Molnija movements fit, but that turns out to have been a false assumption.


----------



## Lucidor

Here is a photo of my 1955 version, one of the earliest I have come across. Two screws hold the dial, the third smaller hole is access for releasing the stem (which, by the way, is released with an absurdly tiny screw, threaded counter-clockwise). I made a complete disassembly of the watch in this thread, so you can see how the bits fit together.


----------



## roo7

I saw the other pictures from that auction, I think it's ok.

If you look at this: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/inside-zlatoust-50-mm-diver-75583.html, you can see the mounting screws for the Molnija movement is at 2 and 8 o'clock.

Here's my Zlatoust Divers for your reference.





There's 1 more on the bay with a very high BIN price as it's NOS with papers.


----------



## azoria

This watch is currently being listed by a Forum member (you know who, with the usual white carpet as scenario) :-| on Ebay USA, item n:140454602933, it has already 4 bids on it, current bid is at 43.78 USD. IMHO I think this watch is a cheap fake made by the Chinese collectivity. I don`t recall VOSTOK making komandirskies with quartz movement... Or Am I wrong??
This must be a joke, If this model existed or was supplied by the factory, it would be mechanical for sure, moreover, the caseback is snap on, similar to other Chinese fakes.:rodekaart


----------



## Seele

azoria said:


> This watch is currently being listed by a Forum member (you know who, with the usual white carpet as scenario) :-| on Ebay USA, item n:140454602933, it has already 4 bids on it, current bid is at 43.78 USD. IMHO I think this watch is a cheap fake made by the Chinese collectivity. I don`t recall VOSTOK making komandirskies with quartz movement... Or Am I wrong??
> This must be a joke, If this model existed or was supplied by the factory, it would be mechanical for sure, moreover, the caseback is snap on, similar to other Chinese fakes.:rodekaart


It is quite well known that the commemorative watches for the opening of McDonald's in Moscow were Komandirskie "homages", Vostok had nothing to do with them. I still do not know why Vostok did not say a few words regarding these when they were distributed.


----------



## Mister Mike

OK, After posting a real Zlatoust diver as a Franken, I'm here to redeem myself. While the following is a completely fake Vostok, someone must have liked it, as it looks like it's been worn for quite a while!


----------



## azoria

Mister Mike said:


> OK, After posting a real Zlatoust diver as a Franken, I'm here to redeem myself. While the following is a completely fake Vostok, someone must have liked it, as it looks like it's been worn for quite a while!


 Huummm... :think: Is it me, or do I see some similarity with the "pseudo" Macdonaldirskie???. same case type, both snap-on caseback`s, hands....
This is hilarious!!!!


----------



## storyteller

What a waste! One of the most beautiful Russian movements ever produced...


----------



## nht

Generalskie case ; Neptune bezel ; Amphibia caseback... :roll:


----------



## chas1869

nht said:


> Generalskie case ; Neptune bezel ; Amphibia caseback... :roll:


 Courtesy of ebayer solar-city, AKA cobaltblue who happens to be a member here.


----------



## robbra

But doesn't it look good?
That Neptune bezel is the best around and would set off any Amphibia well. I wish I could get one from Vostok. :-(


----------



## cobaltblue

robbra said:


> But doesn't it look good?
> That Neptune bezel is the best around and would set off any Amphibia well. I wish I could get one from Vostok. :-(


I'm cobaltblue aka solar-city on ebay. I have to defend the watch, *the dial and case are correct together*, I only changed the bezel and back because they were scratched badly, so I don't think I've frankenized the watch. And like robbra says 'doesn't it look good' :-!


----------



## nht

cobaltblue said:


> I'm cobaltblue aka solar-city on ebay. I have to defend the watch, *the dial and case are correct together*, I only changed the bezel and back because they were scratched badly, so I don't think I've frankenized the watch. And like robbra says 'doesn't it look good' :-!


Sorry, but i have to disagree...

IMHO, a watch with original parts (in this case, all parts are Vostok), but with a wrong combination of these parts (as i mentioned and you have now confirmed) = franken !!!

Regardless of aesthetically it look better or worse...

Good luck on sale !


----------



## Mister Mike

cobaltblue said:


> ...I only changed the bezel and back because they were scratched badly, so I don't think I've frankenized the watch...


Might be a good idea to mention that in the Ad, which currently suggests that it's an original Soviet watch, even though it contains post-soviet parts.


----------



## Mister Mike

We've seen these phony Raketas before, from the same clowns who litter eBay with fake Aviators. You gotta love this sales technique in the second photo, though. I understand wanting to show off the lume (a red flag as recent Raketas don't have lumed dials), but shouldn't the hands glow as brightly as the numbers? What good are bright numbers when you can't see the hands?!!?


----------



## Lucidor

While not explicitly related to Russian watches, I thought you would be amused with this sign that I recently saw on a trip to Turkey. In Turkey, fake watches are sold openly. But _genuine_ fake watches? As opposed to what? The _fake_ fake watches? :-s At least the seller is honest about his products. I didn't spot any Russian pieces, only high end Swiss brands and fashion brands.


----------



## storyteller

This reminds me of the popular discs "The very best of..."


----------



## Seele

storyteller said:


> This reminds me of the popular discs "The very best of..."


*faints yet again*


----------



## watch22

Maybe not franken - a confused seller?


----------



## nht

watch22 said:


> Maybe not franken - a confused seller?


Only a confused seller b-)


----------



## Vaurien

watch22 said:


> Maybe not franken - a confused seller?


It's a "fusion" ads |>

or maybe "confusion" :-d


----------



## azoria

Vaurien said:


> It's a "fusion" ads |>
> 
> or maybe "confusion" :-d


Confusion or not, It´s mine now!!!
Adios amigos


----------



## nht

azoria said:


> Confusion or not, It´s mine now!!!
> Adios amigos


Congrats for your new... "Poljot" :-d

Um abraço para os Açores ! |>


----------



## watch22

azoria said:


> Confusion or not, It´s mine now!!!
> Adios amigos


Good catch - it is a perfectly nice Komandirskie.


----------



## Mister Mike

Oofah! o|


----------



## robbra

I quite like the new plain bezel


----------



## Vaurien

robbra said:


> I quite like the new plain bezel


The new plain absence of bezel, you mean :-d


----------



## robbra

Vaurien said:


> The new plain absence of bezel, you mean :-d


I sure did but my smilies seemed to have deserted me but now found them again.b-)


----------



## Vaurien

robbra said:


> I sure did but my smilies seemed to have deserted me but now found them again.b-)


Go advanced! |>


----------



## Mister Mike

*Breitling Poljot?*

I'm not sure if this is real or not, but it just doesn't seem plausible to me. From the seller's description:

_This is a beautiful example of a Pre-owned Vintage Breitling Co-Pilot ref 7651 Chrono-matic Self-winding Water-resistant Wrist Watch. What sets this one apart from all the others is that it was re-badged *П**ОЛ**Е**Т*__ by Breitling in late 1968 and awarded to the Russian Air Force before the watch was released to the general public in 1969._


----------



## YG1

*Re: Breitling Poljot?*

^ Who is the seller? And I don't see a reason why would Breit rebrand their watch.


----------



## phd

*Re: Breitling Poljot?*

:

_This is a beautiful example of a Pre-owned Vintage Breitling Co-Pilot ref 7651 Chrono-matic Self-winding Water-resistant Wrist Watch. What sets this one apart from all the others is that it was re-badged *П**ОЛ**Е**Т*__ by Breitling in late 1968 and awarded to the Russian Air Force before the watch was released to the general public in 1969._ 
[/QUOTE]

*and, as a tribute to the Soviet people, the hands were lovingly daubed with a clashing orange paint by a blind Ukrainian watchmaker*


----------



## Seele

*Re: Breitling Poljot?*



phd said:


> :
> 
> *and, as a tribute to the Soviet people, the hands were lovingly daubed with a clashing orange paint by a blind Ukrainian watchmaker*


Not necessarily Ukrainian; it could have been Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder too!


----------



## storyteller

*Re: Breitling Poljot?*

I didn't know there was a separate market for boxes and paper from Soviet watches (sold without the watch). Pictures from a local auction.


----------



## Mister Mike

*Re: Breitling Poljot?*

Here's a strange Vostok KGB dial...


----------



## watch22

*Planning ahead*

Moscow 1980 Olympics watch






with a 1957 movement inside.









Now, that's planning ahead


----------



## phd

*Re: Planning ahead*

I'd like to nominate this piece (available on eBay, if you're quick) for the "round peg in a square hole" award.


----------



## marc2131

Mister Mike said:


> Oofah! o|


Rather Norsk


----------



## pwalsh21

Or how about THIS one?

OLD RUSSIAN WATCH RAKETA - 20 AU - VERY RARE | eBay

I mean do frankenizers even CARE anymore??


----------



## sci

I think that's not a franken watch. I have seen such (but with chromed case) before.


----------



## Seele

That's probably another example of the "Armenian dial" Raketas.


----------



## pwalsh21

sci said:


> I think that's not a franken watch. I have seen such (but with chromed case) before.


Really? The "1MWF Kirova" label on a Raketa dial with a Raketa movement didn't throw up a red flag? Plus, add in the silver hands in a gold-plate case, the indices applied over painted indices, etc. and you've got a franken, baby! Take a closer look.


----------



## watch22

Is the little rocket "franken"? It does seem like a silly logo, but I've seen this on several watches - some posted on this forum.


----------



## phd

When buying Russian watches, I think there is only one way to know for sure whether you have a franken or not. That way is to buy one of these little "rocket" watches - then you can be sure. ;-)


----------



## watch22

I like it. It reminds me of a Buck Rogers rocket from when I was a kid.


----------



## DragonDan

Here's one that rubs me the wrong way. A Gallet with a Poljot 3133 movement. I've seen these before on the 'bay, although this one has the date hole at 6 cut in a bit better.









Gallet mostly used Landeron 149's in these two-subdial watches.


----------



## Gravit

Here's a labor intensive frankenization of a Molnija pocket watch with an engraved dial, for sale at the usual place. The seller is somewhat upfront, saying "Dial changes are very beautiful!".


----------



## pcke2000

Gravit said:


> Here's a labor intensive frankenization of a Molnija pocket watch with an engraved dial, for sale at the usual place. The seller is somewhat upfront, saying "Dial changes are very beautiful!".


it is indeed a kinda invention!


----------



## Mirius

Now here is a franken that really annoys me. A few days ago I missed out on this one. My offer was bounced and the auction was ended.










and now look at it


----------



## parrotandpitbull

I dont get it : Mirius is that 2 different watches? Whats the deal. And despite his being one of the greatest villains of the 20th century, thats a beautiful miniature painting on the second photo of the same watch? Please explain.!!!! Thanks.


----------



## Mister Mike

I can guess why the auction ended -- images like that violate eBay policy. Someone probably reported the listing and the auction was pulled.


----------



## Mirius

Nope, that is the same watch. Look at the damage to the numbers such as the 4. It was on sale with an Argentinian seller this week, with a buy it now or offer. It sold, and now is on with a different Argentinian seller but now with a painted dial. Do I think it's a bad piece of art? No. I'm just a little pissed that that nice little Meda that I'd hoped to add to my Meyer & Studeli collection has lost what was quite a nice original dial. It isn't the only painted dial this seller has up for sale and I'm guessing that he hopes people thinks they are period pictures which will add value to otherwise cheap watches.


----------



## Melnyk

mein kampf-y chair!


----------



## Senignol

A Swas-ticker?


----------



## storyteller

From the same seller who offered a quite convincing white Strela (https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/strela-3017-good-513023.html).


----------



## Gravit

Storyteller, the dial is a remake. I've never seen one with a blue telemeter ring on a black dial before. Only white-dialed strelas were made with the blue telemeter so far as I know. The gold batons for the hour markings are thicker than the original, in keeping with a batch of recently made strela dials on the market from somewhere. The serial number on the movement indicates it was produced in 1959-60 making it one of the first but also making it very unlikely the original dial would be in good shape.
I think the watch looks very nice and I wish Poljot, Sekonda or Exacta had produced such a version. But I wouldn't buy this one unless the seller was up front about its authenticity and I wouldn't pay that much even then.
The movement is a beauty though. No matter how many images of the 3017 I see, I get pleasure from looking at each one.


----------



## phd

I think this thread should be renamed "Franken of the hour", given the rate at which they appear. Two from eBay. Nice to see the little rocket now available in black (and in a wider range of cases...), and also nice to find a creative alternative to dial-feet...


----------



## pcke2000

storyteller said:


> From the same seller who offered a quite convincing white Strela (https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/strela-3017-good-513023.html).


if it's not franken, the dial doesn't look too bad


----------



## storyteller

Molnija Glashutte. It looks like a Fmaster's work suddenly stopped.


----------



## Patagonico

My home made Raketa Gagarin ;-)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Malakim

How about an Ural Raketa? Any takers? :-d


----------



## phd

Malakim said:


> How about an Ural Raketa? Any takers? :-d
> 
> Two words spring to mind.
> 
> The first is "Why?"
> 
> The second is also "Why?"


----------



## dzony666

A nice vostok for the revival of this great thread =D
Supposedly it's 'anti-shoker, anti-dust' and 'good conditions':

Vintage WOSTOK VOSTOK ussr soviet russian watch 651 | eBay


----------



## schnurrp

ill-phill said:


> My contestant and personal favorite :-d
> 
> Greetings
> Phil


Are you sure its franken? Not familiar with Longines dials.


----------



## schnurrp

Here's one.


----------



## Vaurien

schnurrp said:


> Here's one.


Ouch! :roll:


----------



## schnurrp

Is this one?


----------



## rproch

Kirovskie


----------



## Girolamo

A gift from a friend, Bосток Командирские ввс рф (Russian Air Force). It has inserted a 2234, stop seconds feature:









​








​
The caliber is not correct. Thanks to Comrade _NHT_, I have a 2414, to insert:


















​


----------



## schnurrp

Poljok diver.


----------



## Seele

Girolamo said:


> A gift from a friend, Bосток Командирские ввс рф (Russian Air Force). It has inserted a 2234, stop seconds feature:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> The caliber is not correct. Thanks to Comrade _NHT_, I have a 2414, to insert:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Nice defrankenizing work! The 22xx date movement is smaller but the date wheel is not that far off alignment though. The different dial feet position means the dial had it feet cut off and attached with dial dots, I presume?


----------



## Girolamo

Seele said:


> Nice defrankenizing work! The 22xx date movement is smaller but the date wheel is not that far off alignment though. The different dial feet position means the dial had it feet cut off and attached with dial dots, I presume?


Yes. The pieces were cut.And the dial together with glue! The 2234 movement is not running.


----------



## Conchita Turtle

Girolamo said:


> A gift from a friend, Bосток Командирские ввс рф (Russian Air Force). It has inserted a 2234, stop seconds feature:




Nice watch, Giro.

Estás hecho un artista.​


----------



## michele

This "wannabe chronograph" is a serious competitor.


----------



## Vaurien

michele said:


> This "wannabe chronograph" is a serious competitor.


It's nice! b-)
What's the use of the other two push-buttons? If any....:think:


----------



## rproch

michele said:


> This "wannabe chronograph" is a serious competitor.


My first thought: ""Mickey Mouse watch..."


----------



## michele

rproch said:


> My first thought: ""Mickey Mouse watch..."


Mice like the cheese for sure.


----------



## James Haury

I have what i think is a fake Komandirskie.It is styled like a submariner(case) with a flat black dial with all numbers except three (date window) and 12( red star) below the star is a rendering of what appears to be a Vietnam era U.S soldier who seems to be carrying an M16 the crown does not screw down and the movement has no Russian style quickset date. The caseback is screwdown but not Vostok style and has a sunrise design on it with a serial number 592183 all writing and logos appear correct the bezel looks right but is unidirectional ratcheting.Movement is hand wind. The case may be SS but could also be chromed Brass .I cannot tell.The lume is even weaker than my other Komandirskies.No water resistance is claimed on the dial or caseback.--- Update the movement is Russian. My watch guy opened it and examined it .He is taking it into the city today to have an expert look at it .I may know it's provenance by friday. So to sum up it has russian movement and a Chinese case .The Caseback may be russian or soviet and the dial may be authentic.The watch is not very water resistant due to the non sealing crown. It is not junk but it is not a Kommandirskie.


----------



## mysterian

I just saw this Poljot Amphibian last night. I spent over an hour trying to find a similar styled face. I'm sure I've seen it on a .... Poljot Alarm... ?


----------



## schnurrp

I don't think the Poljot alarms had date function. I just searched on Ebay and first dozen or so didn't. I, too, have been curious about the authenticity of that watch. Doesn't show up on Russian Times.


----------



## Gravit

I don't think its a franken but a variation of this one. Diver's Poljot Amphibia 
The dial is more similar to the alarms, but as well as the date function, I've not seen an alarm with lume dots towards the center of the dial like that.


----------



## nht

Gravit said:


> I don't think its a franken but a variation of this one. Diver's Poljot Amphibia


Hummm... I don't think so...


----------



## michele

mysterian said:


> I just saw this Poljot Amphibian last night. I spent over an hour trying to find a similar styled face. I'm sure I've seen it on a .... Poljot Alarm... ?
> View attachment 546457
> View attachment 546458
> View attachment 546459


As shown by Nuno, that dial was installed on a classic Poljot automatic model. And the movement is apparently wrong - it should be a 2616, not a 2627 (day-date) as engraved on the rotor bridge.

However, it's very strange that all the original hands are still present and in very good conditions. Usually they are the first thing that goes away if the watch is frankened. IMO the watch has been made from stock parts, as several other similar watches on the bay.

Also, the tone of green paint is the same on hands and dial, that means that dial and hands were made in the same period, unless they have been repainted recently.


----------



## Gravit

You are probably right. The reason I'm still not 100% convinced it must be a franken is because there seems to have been a lot of mixing and matching of parts done at the factory. See image below. Unless I'm mistaken, the consensus in the forum is that all 3 watches are original.
When a combination comes up that no-one has seen before we assume its a franken but some could just be rare combinations, no?


----------



## michele

Gravit said:


> You are probably right. The reason I'm still not 100% convinced it must be a franken is because there seems to have been a lot of mixing and matching of parts done at the factory. See image below. Unless I'm mistaken, the consensus in the forum is that all 3 watches are original.
> When a combination comes up that no-one has seen before we assume its a franken but some could just be rare combinations, no?


You posted those pics here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/very-bizarre-poljot-alarm-595206.html

The fourth alarm watch is not original. It probably comes from the unknown "stock parts" source.

That Poljot Amphibia comes probably from similar or same source.


----------



## mchap

The Poljot is ok ( i don't see any pictures of the movement), it is not hard to find it in good condition. The case is the same of the chronos (except the push button). Nothing to do with the Poljot amphibia.

Some pictures with hands in good and not-good condition:


----------



## michele

mchap said:


> The Poljot is ok ( i don't see any pictures of the movement), it is not hard to find it in good condition. The case is the same of the chronos (except the push button). Nothing to do with the Poljot amphibia.
> 
> Some pictures with hands in good and not-good condition:


I have exactly the same models, in grey and black. Very nice watches, but their autowind module needs to be cleaned and properly lubricated. That type of case was used also on an old Volmax Shturmanskie model.


----------



## mysterian

It's Baaaaaaaack!
Apparently after not selling the first time around, this watch is so special that it warrants a price increase to $255!
Ruscamera Special


----------



## 10 ATM

I've seen it all now ...


----------



## michele

10 ATM said:


> I've seen it all now ...


That one is original. Slava made a "zero" model similar to Raketa, exactly with that case.


----------



## 10 ATM

Tsk ...you learn something new every day !


----------



## schnurrp

michele said:


> That one is original. Slava made a "zero" model similar to Raketa, exactly with that case.


I was wondering how they could possibly fake that! No way!


----------



## Loungelizard

Ok people, I lost a Raketa watch and am trying desperately to find a reasonable one to buy to replace it that is exactly the same.

Out of the two below, which is real???? (the first one has different writing on the front.

Number 1:
Orologio russo Raketa 24h a La Spezia - eBay Annunci

Number 2:
RAKETA 24 HOUR DIAL Gilded Case USSR Soviet Watch Ship 1980s RARE | eBay

I think that 80$ is WAY too expensive, but if I have to pay that price, I want an authentic watch.

Any help would be appreciated.

Loungelizard


----------



## schnurrp

They both look fine. The first one is Russian era, the second Soviet. This watch is not often frankened because while desirable it is fairly common.


----------



## Loungelizard

Fairly common, I can't find many floating around the interwebs..

My dad bought mine in Milan (Italy) in the 90's for 45€ I can't believe I have to pay double for one nowadays.


----------



## shadow_ru

rare soviet stop-watch offered at the bay by an european citizen (from Ukraine) 
true collector's dream: military black dial, signed as zakaz mo ussr, extra seconds hand, 2mchz logo in a shape of 1st mchz...


----------



## schnurrp

shadow_ru said:


> rare soviet stop-watch offered at the bay by an european citizen (from Ukraine)
> true collector's dream: military black dial, signed as zakaz mo ussr, extra seconds hand, 2mchz logo in a shape of 1st mchz...


It's missing "Death To Spies!". I wouldn't have it.


----------



## frantsous

Fake dial and hands for a 3017 Pocket watch on wrist:









There is also on ebay a fake Chrono ChK-28 with the same kind of fake dial


----------



## Gravit

Copernicus calendar?


----------



## schnurrp

Gravit said:


> Copernicus calendar?


Mix-up at the factory? Nobody's perfect!


----------



## schnurrp

Exposed crown shaft model. Very rare.


----------



## JRMTactical

schnurrp said:


> Exposed crown shaft model. Very rare.


Rare, indeed! They were only made on Thursdays by volunteer workers of the People's Vodka Vostok Intake Army (provisional). I bet you didn't know I had that kind of information.....did you, Paul?


----------



## schnurrp

JRMTactical said:


> Rare, indeed! They were only made on Thursdays by volunteer workers of the People's Vodka Vostok Intake Army (provisional). I bet you didn't know I had that kind of information.....did you, Paul?


Your wealth of information astounds me, Bobby!

By the way, have the auto-focus on your camera looked at as a New Years resolution! Your watches are too nice to be out of focus!
Cheers!


----------



## JRMTactical

schnurrp said:


> Your wealth of information astounds me, Bobby!
> 
> By the way, have the auto-focus on your camera looked at as a New Years resolution! Your watches are too nice to be out of focus!
> Cheers!


I usually use my iPhone 4S...but the standard camera software leaves MUCH to be desired. I have 'Camera Genius', but just when I think I've got the perfect shot, there's a split second of movement. Screws me up every dang time!! I Shall endeavor to make top quality photos in 2012!! . Did you see where Michele cleaned up the photo on my Green Tank thread... I reported it...I have this 'thing' against genocidal maniacs...


----------



## schnurrp

JRMTactical said:


> I usually use my iPhone 4S...but the standard camera software leaves MUCH to be desired. I have 'Camera Genius', but just when I think I've got the perfect shot, there's a split second of movement. Screws me up every dang time!! I Shall endeavor to make top quality photos in 2012!! . Did you see where Michele cleaned up the photo on my Green Tank thread... I reported it...I have this 'thing' against genocidal maniacs...


Those new Iphones are supposed to be capable of some pretty decent photos but maybe not as macro as you are trying. Try shooting farther back and cropping in, say, Picassa to get your close-ups.
Cheers!


----------



## JRMTactical

Will do!


----------



## Lucidor

This must be the worst Strela I have seen in a while. And 10 bids with 5 days still to go.


----------



## JRMTactical

Someone said I should submit my Soviet Stealth watch...but I don't see anything Franken about it. As a matter of fact, I don't see much at all....how about y'all?


----------



## Tarquin

It's a beaut for sure! :think:


----------



## JRMTactical

Tarquin said:


> View attachment 594743
> 
> View attachment 594745
> 
> View attachment 594746
> 
> 
> It's a beaut for sure! :think:


Looks like a good start on about 5 watches there....if you could just find all of the matching pieces..


----------



## frantsous

Lucidor said:


> This must be the worst Strela I have seen in a while. And 10 bids with 5 days still to go.
> 
> View attachment 592389


Yes, I saw it too.

It a real joke: I didn't a so fake one since a while!!!

10 bids show us how people (in fact) are buying without any minimum knowledge or without at least doing the minimum research on the net.


----------



## Starman66

2 hours remaining & the fake Strela is £350. Hope no-one here is bidding in the belief it's genuine. Will it top £500?


----------



## Starman66

On the subject of fake Strelas, I eventually found some old photos of two fake/franken 3017 chronographs I bought in 2007. At the time I knew nothing about Russian watches, although I had owned a couple of Vostok Komandirskies bought not so far from Chistopol in 1999/2000. I'm a little ashamed to say I thought they were both genuine & I wore one of them proudly for a good 6 months o| I apologise for the very poor photos. I didn't realise the 3017 movement in the first had such a low serial number. It's a pity it was butchered, but perhaps the original dial was a wreck. We'll never know...


----------



## frantsous

Starman66 said:


> 2 hours remaining & the fake Strela is £350. Hope no-one here is bidding in the belief it's genuine. Will it top £500?


Just pass through the GBP 400!!!! Is it the april 1st or the world is really so sick?


----------



## YG1

frantsous said:


> Just pass through the GBP 400!!!! Is it the april 1st or the world is really so sick?


Congratulations to its new owner :-!


----------



## frantsous

YG1 said:


> Congratulations to its new owner :-!


Final price = GBP 543.71

We ve got a winner!!!! The champion of the world!


----------



## JRMTactical

frantsous said:


> Final price = GBP 543.71
> 
> We ve got a winner!!!! The champion of the world!


Poor, dumb, oblivious bastadge!! That's hard to swallow...GBP 543.71


----------



## Starman66

Buyer obviously thought it was 100% original, but did no research. It's a heck of a lot of money to pay for a franken. There was plenty of time to Google Strela watches & look at photos, and of course find WUS. I wish I'd done that in 2007, but I only paid £65 & £80 for my frankens.


----------



## Oldheritage

JRMTactical said:


> Poor, dumb, oblivious bastadge!! That's hard to swallow...GBP 543.71


Imagine how he's gonna feel, googling his newly received watch out of post-buyer curiosity...


----------



## YG1

Oldheritage said:


> Imagine how he's gonna feel, googling his newly received watch out of post-buyer curiosity...


I guess buyer is aware of Russian watches, Strelas in particular and its history. Otherwise, why would he search for it on ebay.
Anyway, if he realizes what he bought soon enough he might return a watch and get a refund.


----------



## Oldheritage

YG1 said:


> I guess buyer is aware of Russian watches, Strelas in particular and its history. Otherwise, why would he search for it on ebay.
> Anyway, if he realizes what he bought soon enough he might return a watch and get a refund.


Looking at what he just bought-he may not be _that_ aware of Russian watches after all ;-)


----------



## JRMTactical

Oldheritage said:


> Imagine how he's gonna feel, googling his newly received watch out of post-buyer curiosity...


I'd hate to be him....stumbling across this thread....get that 'sinking feeling' in the pit of your stomach. That's what eBay does to you though. I'll never forget, first time I ever heard of eBay...dial up Internet on a 56 Kbps modem. I bought a NIB Rolex Submariner from Hong Kong for $135.00 plus shipping. I was so proud!! That was like 1997......I've never seen that watch to this very day. LOL. This poor bugger is gonna get his GBP 550.00 watch, but it may as well be a Timex!


----------



## Lucidor

The buyer being conned is sad. But the worst part of this story is that this deal will encourage the sellers to continue their dirty work. More historical watches will be slaughtered on the altar of quick bucks.


----------



## Topi

How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.

Topi


----------



## schnurrp

Topi said:


> How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.
> 
> Topi


Must have a lawyer on retainer! Everything he says is technically true in some sense. Is that an old strela movement? What a shame! You can almost smell the ink drying on the dial!


----------



## michele

Topi said:


> How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.
> 
> Topi


That's not a Strela. This time, the guy slaughtered a Molnija 3017 pocket chronograph.

The number of Strela, Molnija 3017, and ChK-28 chronographs (not just ordinary Molnija 3602) that have been massacred by those guys is extremely high. I bet that almost half of ChK-28 pocket chronographs have been killed to make that stuff.


----------



## Tarquin

Topi said:


> How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.
> 
> Topi


The picture of Harrison Ford dressed like a Naval Officer in the item's description really adds to the authentic Soviet military vintage, for me.


----------



## Seele

This particular vendor is well known here as a serial murderer of watches, and creative writer of eBay descriptions.


----------



## Topi

Another, this time an OKEAH... USSR vintage watch chronograph Ocean okean | eBay "Everything original and definitely aren't built-up from several parts". Sure, P3133 chrono bridge "23 JEWELS" and one-piece reset lever in an OKEAH w/original parts. What a chance to own a piece of Russian watch history - yours for only $695.

Topi


----------



## YG1

michele said:


> That's not a Strela. This time, the guy slaughtered a Molnija 3017 pocket chronograph.
> 
> The number of Strela, Molnija 3017, and ChK-28 chronographs (not just ordinary Molnija 3602) that have been massacred by those guys is extremely high. I bet that almost half of ChK-28 pocket chronographs have been killed to make that stuff.


Why you folks keep saying "slaughtered", "butchered" etc like those watches were in decent condition prior to the "massacring", when infact the ones that get redialed mostly have completely ruined dials, hands etc. The bad thing that these pieces are advertised as genuine and original, yes, undoubtedly.

Here's nice Okean


----------



## koutouzoff

And the captain is... Harrisson Ford. It's Hollywood! or Hollywoodovo


----------



## frantsous

Topi said:


> How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.
> 
> Topi


Fake dial fake hands ... An other 3017 sacrified to make more money. This seller is the king of this kind of fantasy watches.

But people like it .....


----------



## frantsous

Definitively a watch from Hollywood!!!! * Pasteboard dial* but looks good on the screen


----------



## Starman66

Topi said:


> How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.
> 
> Topi


:-d This seller's eBay ID always makes me laugh. Trust?


----------



## frantsous

I am entirely agree with you.

There is an other trap, some are using: selling a watch with the wrong paper and don't mention the paper but show it on picture:

Russian USSR Military chronograph Poljot navigator watch EXC+ | eBay









So an early 3133 with the paper from a 31659.

Result = $600!!!!

An impossible to complain after as the paper is not mention on the add and the picture will disapear soon.


----------



## schnurrp

frantsous said:


> I am entirely agree with you.
> 
> There is an other trap, some are using: selling a watch with the wrong paper and don't mention the paper but show it on picture:
> 
> Russian USSR Military chronograph Poljot navigator watch EXC+ | eBay
> 
> View attachment 598126
> 
> 
> So an early 3133 with the paper from a 31659.
> 
> Result = $600!!!!
> 
> An impossible to complain after as the paper is not mention on the add and the picture will disapear soon.


Frankenpaper!!!


----------



## koutouzoff

600 euros! I can't believe it!
This model is not so rare, and the dial looks a bit too clean in comparison with the bezel and the box. 

I never pay attention to papers or boxes, as it's too easy to fake them.


----------



## a_godumov

> I am entirely agree with you.
> 
> There is an other trap, some are using: selling a watch with the wrong paper and don't mention the paper but show it on picture:
> 
> Russian USSR Military chronograph Poljot navigator watch EXC+ | eBay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So an early 3133 with the paper from a 31659.
> 
> Result = $600!!!!
> 
> An impossible to complain after as the paper is not mention on the add and the picture will disapear soon. ​


I noticed the same watch and i tought of bidding on it the price went too high for me. I noticed the wrong paper (which states that the watch has 31659 movement and was activated in 1992) but i didn't care for it because the watch itself appeared OK. Part of the appeal of the watch was due to its very low serial number - 0104. First this seemed a bit strange - i would have expected this movement number from an ОКЕАН watch. However in the guide to determining the age and originality of a 3133 chronograph, it was stated that production of the first model of the Штурманские chronograph started about at the same time as the production of the ОКЕАН chronograph so i tought that it may be OK. Everything else seemed to check too so if it had normal price (like about 200$) i would have tried to get it.

There is one suspicios ОКЕАН on the bay as of now too with a buy it now price of 695 $. It has a Р3133 stamped movement (when production of the ОКЕАН stopped in 1990) with a high serial number.


----------



## koutouzoff

I fully agree that this Okean has been frankenised:

- The bezel is very early and has red markings, so it should come with a dial with white lume
- the chrono hand should be orange
- The mechanism is recent and does not feature the 2 pieces lever... so it's just impossible that it is original

On the the over side, the watch is very nice, but too expensive given it's not fully original.
I bought my Okean from this guy, and that was ok, fully original


----------



## YG1

frantsous said:


> I am entirely agree with you.
> 
> There is an other trap, some are using: selling a watch with the wrong paper and don't mention the paper but show it on picture:
> 
> Russian USSR Military chronograph Poljot navigator watch EXC+ | eBay
> 
> So an early 3133 with the paper from a 31659.
> 
> Result = $600!!!!
> 
> An impossible to complain after as the paper is not mention on the add and the picture will disapear soon.


If he actually sold it then he made a good money, considering he bought it for 120usd firsthand. Anyway... Okean I posted above sold almost immediately, no problem. What interests me is from where do these people, who buy these watches, find out about Russian watches. If from any french etc forums, then presumably they would have more knowledge and why not post a question there before bidding.


----------



## koutouzoff

YG1 said:


> Why you folks keep saying "slaughtered", "butchered" etc like those watches were in decent condition prior to the "massacring", when infact the ones that get redialed mostly have completely ruined dials, hands etc. The bad thing that these pieces are advertised as genuine and original, yes, undoubtedly.
> 
> Here's nice Okean


This one is a redial? And the back is recent as well?


----------



## phd

Thanks for the warning, [frantsous]!


----------



## nht

koutouzoff said:


> This one is a redial? And the back is recent as well?


Yes... and chromed case...


----------



## schnurrp

Topi said:


> How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.
> 
> Topi


I have to admit, when I first started collecting (basically in a vacuum) this type of watch was very appealing (never bought one, though, because they were pretty expensive). I think this is the group to which these pieces are marketed. So, as collecting becomes more popular there are more and more customers for these fabricators.

If the beginner sees 14 bidders on a watch, then it must be a very desirable watch (primary form of "research")! I'm gonna try to get it! I don't know what I'm doing but those 14 others do, so I'm with them!

I would also like to show you a franken that uses a modern amphibian dial. First such I've seen. The "Scuba Dude" sells:

VOSTOK Vintage KOMANDIRSKIE Soviet Officer MILITARY DIVER Watch !


----------



## Topi

schnurrp said:


> I have to admit, when I first started collecting (basically in a vacuum) this type of watch was very appealing (never bought one, though, because they were pretty expensive). I think this is the group to which these pieces are marketed. So, as collecting becomes more popular there are more and more customers for these fabricators.
> 
> If the beginner sees 14 bidders on a watch, then it must be a very desirable watch (primary form of "research")! I'm gonna try to get it! I don't know what I'm doing but those 14 others do, so I'm with them!
> 
> I would also like to show you a franken that uses a modern amphibian dial. First such I've seen. The "Scuba Dude" sells:
> 
> *VOSTOK Vintage KOMANDIRSKIE Soviet Officer MILITARY DIVER Watch !*


Yes, I agree, it's easy to go with others when you see plenty of people bidding on it.

Anyway, the frankened 3017 Molnija here could be a good deal for somebody for the movement only. There was a non-running 3017 movement just sold at the 'bay for over $200.

I've also noted those scuba dude dials on CCCP Vostoks. Looked a bit strange to me but I really can't tell whether they're real or not. Just started looking at the Boctok brand.

Real as in "original" or not as well as the final price - in the end it's really for the buyer to decide whether it's worth it but I don't like items being represented as something they are not.

Topi


----------



## vvd

one of my early activities Молния


----------



## frantsous

Topi said:


> How's this Soviet WWII NAVY VMF Captain's Watch Chronograph | eBay for a frankenwatch? Said to be from the 40's or fifties... sure, just check the serial number in the movement. Original dial - yeah, that's it.
> 
> Topi


$405 for this piece of ..... But you have the answer again: seller massacre and kill 3017 and ChK-28 because it's profitable.


----------



## 10 ATM

Looks like a Buran and a Poljodirskie had a collission


----------



## 10 ATM

I don't think you're supposed to see the winding stem THIS clearly with an original dial, are you?










the "zakaz mo" dial seems to have shrunk in the wash a bit ;-)


----------



## YG1




----------



## schnurrp

10 ATM said:


> I don't think you're supposed to see the winding stem THIS clearly with an original dial, are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the "zakaz mo" dial seems to have shrunk in the wash a bit ;-)


A mild crown stem "skeleton" maybe?


----------



## victorbrunswick

10 ATM said:


> Looks like a Buran and a Poljodirskie had a collission


It looks like one of ruscamera's offerings. I've noticed that every time he relists something he raises the price.


----------



## Topi

How would you rate this one SHTURMANSKIE POLJOT CAL.3133 USSR RUSSIAN AIR FORCE PILOTS CHRONOGRAPH WATCH | eBay in this prestigious frankencontest?

Topi


----------



## koutouzoff

$399 that's nothing  

The only interest is the old bezel with red markings... the remaining is garbage, hands, fake dial... 
I am surprised to see how much they can sell fake Strela: more than 400-500 USD! And I have not been able to sell a real rare one, in nice conditions for 450$... that's puzzling me...


----------



## victorbrunswick

victorbrunswick said:


> It looks like one of ruscamera's offerings. I've noticed that every time he relists something he raises the price.


geesh, I didn't notice his name when I saw the listing just now. I always seem to fall into that trap of excitedly seeing the item before I see who's selling it.


----------



## pgillich

Oh, is ruscamera one seller one should steer clear from? His prices do seem too good...


----------



## Caruso

Frankens are always exciting


----------



## Vaurien

Another redialled old Kirovskie... :roll:
sad to see it :-(

VINTAGE MILITARY SOVIET KIROVA / KIROVSKIE WATCH (# 330676146948)


----------



## victorbrunswick

I love the movement shot.
SHTURMANSKIE POLJOT CAL.3133 USSR RUSSIAN AIR FORCE PILOTS CHRONOGRAPH WATCH | eBay


----------



## zircular

OK, time for a test of honesty. Who won it? Click: [franken of the year?]


----------



## Knight

zircular said:


> OK, time for a test of honesty. Who won it? Click: [franken of the year?]


I don't know who won it but the seller is on this forum and, at least for this watch, the description was pretty accurate...


----------



## zircular

I don't have any complaint at all about the seller. I was just impressed by the watch.


----------



## schnurrp

*Rare 24 Hours Soviet WRISTWATCH RAKETA USSR for Polar Explorers / Submarines

*


----------



## frantsous

dial from 2004-2006??????

Rare Russian OKEAH (OCEAN) military Navy Commanders chronograph POLJOT watch EXC | eBay


----------



## YG1

nice dial actually. They should sell them separately. 
Why 2004-2006?


----------



## frantsous

YG1 said:


> nice dial actually. They should sell them separately.
> Why 2004-2006?


OK ... perhaps the dial is just relumed .... I see evil everywhere!!!!

2003-2004:










https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/confusion-poljot-okean-okeah-62565.html


----------



## YG1

frantsous said:


> OK ... perhaps the dial is just relumed .... I see evil everywhere!!!!


No, you're right the dial is a replica. I meant to say that it's of nice quality and they should sell them separately.
Noticeable differences are in subdials.


----------



## mysterian

Found a suspicious looking rocket in the hangar...
What do you think?


----------



## Knight

Hi!



mysterian said:


> Found a suspicious looking rocket in the hangar...
> What do you think?


I can't say if this watch is the real thing but there is a real Vostok (Восток) watch with a Восток (Vostok) rocket on it. A Восток (Vostok) rocket is the type of rocket which was used when Yuri Gagarin (Юрий Гагарин) traveled into space.

Its look doesn't match exactly the look of the watch in a book I was given this Christmas about Russian wristwatches (written by Juri Levenberg) or the look of another similar watch I found using Google (but that one was clearly an Amfibia (Амфибия)) though but I don't think this automatically make it a fake.

This watch has the mention "Сделано в СССР" which means "Made in USSR" and according to the book I mentioned above these watches were last produced when the USSR still existed....

Have a nice day!

Nick


----------



## JRMTactical

mysterian said:


> Found a suspicious looking rocket in the hangar...
> What do you think?
> 
> View attachment 620326


Where, pray tell, did you find this watch?


----------



## mysterian

JRMTactical said:


> Where, pray tell, did you find this watch?


Hi Tactical,...
I found it earlier today,... apologies for not posting the link.
It appears someone has snapped it up. 
Here's the eBay listing link: LINK
I found numerous discrepancies when comparing this one to the two I currently have and any others found in sites like Michele's which was the closest I could find... here's what I noted:
-Strange looking bezel,... red and black are reversed 
-No triangle on bezel
-Some of the holes on the bezel look "off",.. as if the drill slipped
-Odd looking second hand
-no metal frame around the date window
-strange looking crown
-coloration of the dial is very "cyan" and different than any other I've seen
-& all the typography looks either slightly blurred or bolder than Michele's example

Anyway,... there were enough question ,marks for me that I passed on it. I'd love to have a third variant as I love this dial design, but this one was just too suspect. Did I pass up something original and rare?


----------



## Seele

Mysterian,

I have seen bezels like that one, but the most alarming point is the one-piece "little bird" caseback.


----------



## nht

mysterian said:


> Found a suspicious looking rocket in the hangar...
> What do you think?
> 
> View attachment 620326


Fake Vostok (all wrong) with chinese movement !


----------



## mysterian

Thanks for the confirmation folks ....


----------



## michele

mysterian said:


> Found a suspicious looking rocket in the hangar...
> What do you think?
> View attachment 620326


Very dangerous. They are now replicating other appreciated dials. o|


----------



## Jompen

Good afternoon friends,
Anybody have any comment to this watch (see pictures under)? Please check out the band; it says CCCP and USA Peace in Russian&#8230;Is it a real perestroika or Glasnost Poljot watch, or is it franken?

Best regards: Jompen


----------



## Timepiece Tenderfoot

From the same Hong Kong vendor listed above









*WTF? :rodekaart*


----------



## Seele

Timepiece Tenderfoot said:


> From the same Hong Kong vendor listed above


It's not a frankenwatch, just a total counterfeit.


----------



## avers

Sturmanskie in early SS case offered by a seller from Tashkent. 

Wrong hands.


----------



## avers

wrong movement


----------



## avers

OKEAH with replaced parts. 

Wrong hands; seller is not showing caseback (but shows other parts of the watch in great details) - I assume it's plain; case is chrome plated. Possibly restored or newly made dial.

Seller is from Ukraine.


----------



## Tarquin

Timepiece Tenderfoot said:


> From the same Hong Kong vendor listed above
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WTF? :rodekaart*


Am I right in thinking that there has never been a quartz movement Komandirskie? In any case, quite clearly a faked dial.


----------



## Seele

Tarquin said:


> Am I right in thinking that there has never been a quartz movement Komandirskie? In any case, quite clearly a faked dial.


The current Komandirskie chronographs are quartz; apart from that I cannot think of others with quartz movements.


----------



## koutouzoff

Well, I am sure you will enjoy this one:

POLJOT SIGNAL SOVIET WATCH VIBRO BUZZING ALARM WATERPROOF DIVER TYPE EXCELLENT | eBay


----------



## Tarquin

koutouzoff said:


> Well, I am sure you will enjoy this one:
> 
> POLJOT SIGNAL SOVIET WATCH VIBRO BUZZING ALARM WATERPROOF DIVER TYPE EXCELLENT | eBay


Brilliant!

It's a Strelamphibirskie Signal. :-!


----------



## storyteller

Fake cases for Vostok / Volna 2809. The cases are available here (Часы Корпус от часов Волна (2105742983) - Aukro.ua - крупнейший интернет-аукцион Украины. Безопасные покупки и продажи в интернете.) and critically reviewed here (http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?t=9480&page=34). The most obvious difference is the snap caseback. Frankens soon to come, I guess.

Many thanks to our vigilant Russian colleagues.


----------



## storyteller

Maybe we should keep an eye on this important resource (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚Ñ‹, Ñ�Ñ‚Ñ€ÐµÐ»ÐºÐ¸ - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.) - the main ukrainian auction site, subsection "hands and dials". Interesting brand new dials for:

1. Poljot De Luxe (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚ Ð¾Ñ‚ Ð½Ð°Ñ€ÑƒÑ‡Ð½Ñ‹Ñ&#8230; Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ð¾Ð² POLJOT de luxe (2105742909) - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.)








2. 1 GChZ black Strela (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚ Ð¾Ñ‚ Ð½Ð°Ñ€ÑƒÑ‡Ð½Ñ‹Ñ&#8230; Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ð¾Ð² Ð¡Ñ‚Ñ€ÐµÐ»Ð° (2105742996) - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.)








3. Strela kl1 (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚ Ð¾Ñ‚ Ð½Ð°Ñ€ÑƒÑ‡Ð½Ñ‹Ñ&#8230; Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ð¾Ð² Ð¡Ñ‚Ñ€ÐµÐ»Ð° (2105802855) - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.)








4. Zakaz Komandirskie (better than the original!) (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚. ÐšÐ¾Ð¼Ð°Ð½Ð´Ð¸Ñ€Ñ�ÐºÐ¸Ðµ. Ð§Ð°Ñ�Ñ‹ (2110139796) - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.)









5. Another version of Strela (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚. Ð¡Ð¢Ð.Ð•Ð›Ð�. Ð§Ð°Ñ�Ñ‹ (2120800400) - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.)









6. Luch 23 jewels. I like it! (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚. Ð›ÑƒÑ‡. Ð§Ð°Ñ�Ñ‹ (2120800411) - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.)









7. Signal (Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚ Ð½Ð° Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ñ‹ Ð¡Ð˜Ð"Ð�Ð�Ð›. 20ÑˆÑ‚. Ð�Ð¾Ð²Ð¸Ðµ. (2155198188) - Aukro.ua - ÐºÑ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð½ÐµÐ¹ÑˆÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚-Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½ Ð£ÐºÑ€Ð°Ð¸Ð½Ñ‹. Ð'ÐµÐ·Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñ�Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¿ÐºÐ¸ Ð¸ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ð¸ Ð² Ð¸Ð½Ñ‚ÐµÑ€Ð½ÐµÑ‚Ðµ.)









Looks like a supply store for frankenmasters.


----------



## JRMTactical

My, my, my.... I do believe that we now have the #1 contestant for supplier to a certain eBay ".ua" seller that has all these miraculously NOS watches. Just my 2 cents, but dang it, that just can't be coincidence.


----------



## nht

storyteller said:


> Looks like a supply store for frankenmasters.


 Yeah... :rodekaart

and the origin of the so trendy slim Poljot/Luch 2209 dials... :roll:


----------



## storyteller

Yes, they the Luch are really nice. And the black Strela. Pictures from the same auction site.


----------



## art1118

Knight said:


> I don't know who won it but the seller is on this forum and, at least for this watch, the description was pretty accurate...


Thanks for defending me. Really appreciate it. It is not a Franken if you accurately describe what you are selling, like I tried to do. "The dial is not original, and there is no date wheel with this movement. The hands are not original with this type of watch. Likewise, the crown stem is a replacement and does not screw down. The bezel is worn, but the crystal is clear. Despite it flaws, you are getting a Tonneau case (119, I believe) in good shape and a working movement that was serviced. This is the basis for a good project due to its positive features." The original dial of this watch was used to restore a Tonneau I had that was really a Franken! The movement of watch just sold came without a crown stem and the movement was broken. Due to a communication failure with my elderly Korean watch maker he repaired the movement and found a crown for it after changing dials. I paid more for the repairs than what I got for its sale. I was trying to make someone happy to have the better parts of a Tonneau for restoration or parts. The buyer is happy with the item. Two individuals bid it up for a purpose, and the winner gave me nice positive Feedback. I respectfully decline a Franken of the Year award.


----------



## Tarquin

art1118 said:


> Thanks for defending me. Really appreciate it. It is not a Franken if you accurately describe what you are selling, like I tried to do. "The dial is not original, and there is no date wheel with this movement. The hands are not original with this type of watch. Likewise, the crown stem is a replacement and does not screw down. The bezel is worn, but the crystal is clear. Despite it flaws, you are getting a Tonneau case (119, I believe) in good shape and a working movement that was serviced. This is the basis for a good project due to its positive features." The original dial of this watch was used to restore a Tonneau I had that was really a Franken! The movement of watch just sold came without a crown stem and the movement was broken. Due to a communication failure with my elderly Korean watch maker he repaired the movement and found a crown for it after changing dials. I paid more for the repairs than what I got for its sale. I was trying to make someone happy to have the better parts of a Tonneau for restoration or parts. The buyer is happy with the item. Two individuals bid it up for a purpose, and the winner gave me nice positive Feedback. I respectfully decline a Franken of the Year award.


I think you had the full support of everyone who commented in that thread. Well done on being so accurate with your listing descriptions and also for getting a good price!


----------



## 10 ATM

WTF happened here?

(Don't tell me that this is a special for those "special kind of people" who wear their watch on the INSIDE of their wrist ...because that's about the only way this setup would make something resembling sense ;-))

Also ...interesting bezel ...(never seen one like that before)


----------



## plainsimple

I have been lurking around here on the forum for a week or so now and decided it was time to make my first post.

I was given two Russian watches for my birthday a bit less than a year ago (well, I picked them out). I got two Pobeda watches shipped from Ukraine through Ebay. Big warning bells for you guys - none at all for me because I was clueless. These were actually my first mechanical watches. I opened up the case backs last week and read up on the different watch factories and realised the dials and mechanical engraving did not match.

I like the white/cream dial more but not so much the strap. I went to a watch store to get it and they didn't have much in stock. The black dial is 2nd Moscow factory and the cream is TTK1 (rare? according to Welcome to USSR Time!). Do the hands at least match the dials?








The black has a ZIM movement and the cream 1st Moscow factory. Are the movements themselves Frankenstein? The crown sticks out on the black so I guess the shaft(?) is too long.








The TTK1 dial seems to be in pretty good shape.








The day after I did this I realised it wasn't the smartest thing I've done. As I understand it, the dials with green paint most likely has radium on them.








I still like my watches despite them being green monsters with bolts in the neck.

We'll see if I'll post here again soon. I have a watch marked "Russia" 16 jewel on it's way from China. *crosses fingers*


----------



## zircular

art1118 said:


> It is not a Franken if you accurately describe what you are selling, like I tried to do.


Is that true? I just figured if it was assembled from a smattering of parts, it must be a franken whether described correctly or not. Perhaps that's just an incorrect assumption thanks to my generally literal way of looking at things.

But if so, what do you call a mis-matched watch with an accurate description?


----------



## JRMTactical

zircular said:


> Is that true? I just figured if it was assembled from a smattering of parts, it must be a franken whether described correctly or not. Perhaps that's just an incorrect assumption thanks to my generally literal way of looking at things.
> 
> But if so, what do you call a mis-matched watch with an accurate description?


Call it "Art".....get it? "Art"...LOL! I know... Thank you 'Atilla the Pun'. Anyway, I thought it was funny.


----------



## Seele

plainsimple,

While this thread is meant to be a "name and shame" place, your black dial Pobeda is edging towards being a Frankenwatch. As the dial states it's by 2MWF, the movement is by ZIM. It could have been an honest period repair as the original owner elected to replace its faulty movement with a working ZIM one, and yet it could also be a Frankenwatch with a working ZIM movement fitted to make it working, thus saleable. It would not be too difficult to replace it with a 2MWF movement if you can find an appropriate one, which be marked 2ChF (in Cyrillic) rather than one marked 2M.

The TTK-1 is a bit of a tricky one. I cannot see the date code on the 1MWF-built movement and would be grateful if you can tell me what it is, as I still have not been able to make it clear in my mind when the transition point was, when 1MWF-built movements gave way to those built by TTK-1, if such a transition point actually existed. Here is a thread discussing this issue.

Nevertheless, I think your TTK-1 should have gold-plated brass hands in the same shapes, as these dark-blued hands are meant for dials with black printing.


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## kapitan

Last year I bought Pobeda TTK with 1 MChZ movement, I thought it is franaken and waited to met TTK movement but now I changed mind . Thanks


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## Gravit

I'm sorry and this may be heresy, but I love the new black strela dial. If a seller was honest about it... "new and modified dial design with original case and movement" for example, and the price was lower as it should be compared to an original, I would consider buying one.


----------



## michele

10 ATM said:


> WTF happened here?
> 
> (Don't tell me that this is a special for those "special kind of people" who wear their watch on the INSIDE of their wrist ...because that's about the only way this setup would make something resembling sense ;-))
> 
> Also ...interesting bezel ...(never seen one like that before)


Dial swapped from a "2 'o clock" case.


----------



## Vaurien

See item #330691505404.
Surely redialled but what old watch is underneath? :think:


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## shadow_ru

Vaurien said:


> See item #330691505404.
> Surely redialled but what old watch is underneath? :think:


The movement is from Kapitanskie chrono


----------



## Vaurien

shadow_ru said:


> The movement is from Kapitanskie chrono


Ah, you're right but... somebody changed the movement, to get a 1-button chrono! :-s:rodekaart

What all that work for?


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## Tarquin

Vaurien said:


> See item #330691505404.
> Surely redialled but what old watch is underneath? :think:


Interesting movement indeed! Produced at 2nd Moscow Watch Factory, I managed to find a little info on it here 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/my-little-summary-soviet-russian-chronographs-344719.html

An early Soviet Chronograph, It's a A ЧК-28/ChK-28 apparently! 

So a re-dialled, broken watch with a crown that doesn't fit? Sounds a bargain at only €175! Still a collectible movement I would have thought, but not at that price.


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## watch22

I love the red second hand.


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## Mister Mike

Not necessarily a "Franken," but I couldn't help but admire the custom logo!


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## JRMTactical

Mister Mike said:


> Not necessarily a "Franken," but I couldn't help but admire the custom logo!
> 
> View attachment 641821


Reminds me of John Belushi's sweatshirt in 'Animal House' ...the one that said "COLLEGE"! :-d


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## emoscambio

Mister Mike said:


> Not necessarily a "Franken," but I couldn't help but admire the custom logo!
> 
> View attachment 641821


This makes it a genuine export model!


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## Starman66

I bet you can't resist bidding on this rare & original OKEAH ;-)


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## YG1

Starman66 said:


> I bet you can't resist bidding on this rare & original OKEAH ;-)


People think the dial is original and going to bid just for the dial.:-!


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## Starman66

Pity the dial is new.


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## kapitan

Last time I see too many "okeans" with new dials


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## 10 ATM

As Frankens go, this square "Pobedskie" or "Shturbeda" is kinda cool ....


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## Topi

Starman66 said:


> I bet you can't resist bidding on this rare & original OKEAH ;-)


Just bumped into this beauty while browsing the 'bay and it's so far out it's already back in.

Topi


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## YG1

Here's a good one


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## JRMTactical

Oh man..... (shakes head in a disbelieving manner)...


----------



## azoria

How about this fantasy OMAX USSR 25 jewels??????:-s
A Swiss / USSR partnership.
And the seller states : "OMAX the USSR. A rare variant.!!! DOES NOT WORK!!!. I sell ONLY ORIGINAL WATCH of the USSR!!!!! NOT WHAT COPIES!!!"
Sure, sure, I believe you.:-d
Pedro


----------



## emoscambio

azoria said:


> How about this fantasy OMAX USSR 25 jewels??????:-s
> A Swiss / USSR partnership.
> And the seller states : "OMAX the USSR. A rare variant.!!! DOES NOT WORK!!!. I sell ONLY ORIGINAL WATCH of the USSR!!!!! NOT WHAT COPIES!!!"
> Sure, sure, I believe you.:-d
> Pedro


OK, so the guy uses "google translate" for his descriptions.

He has a Swiss Omax (the company now moved to India), a Zim, a Faria (sic), a Sporting (also translated!), a komandirskie, and a _spanish _date Cornavin (probably rare!).
What is Frankened here?


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## kapitan

I see selling a nice Poljot military grey chrono . Is it authentic?
Poljot Military Style Chronograph made in ussr | eBay


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## WelshWatchNut

I gotta ask, how can you tell with some of these over the last 22 pages?

Even being new to watch collecting I can see some which stand out a mile with things such as oversize hands, mismatched casebacks, new faces inside old cases etc but I look at some and go...ok, what am I looking at? 

Any tips or advice please?


----------



## nht

kapitan said:


> I see selling a nice Poljot military grey chrono . Is it authentic?
> Poljot Military Style Chronograph made in ussr | eBay
> View attachment 654859


It's OK ! |>


----------



## schnurrp

Here's a picture of the one I used to own with a white dial laid on a copy of the 1993 (I think) Poljot catalog. A sliver of the gray dial one can be seen in bottom left corner.


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## Starman66

I hope no-one here bought this "Rare gents vintage submarine navy Russian watch Komandirskie Vostok", which just sold on the bay for $40 :roll: I'd like to see what's inside. Fake dial, wrong hands, dodgy crown... looks like a few other fake Vostoks I've seen apart from the bezel. 
RARE GENTS Vintage Submarine Navy Russian Watch Komandirskie. Vostok 17j FAB | eBay


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## JRMTactical

I'm never surprised anymore....the crap that people pass off as original, and some poor guy gets a fishing weight disguised as a watch....


----------



## phd

I'd like to nominate this one:

Russian mechanical watch RAKETA Gorbachev Soviet vintage propaganda USSR 1990 | eBay

Amongst its other problems:

Case is not from Raketa
The inner part of the dial is made for a circular watch, but the outer part is square
Crown is wrong
Movement does not correspond to the claimed period of manufacture.
"PRESIDEHT" is an interesting hybrid spelling! The dialmaker has confused his Cyrillic with his Ehglisn.

!
Paul


----------



## Tarquin

phd said:


> I'd like to nominate this one:
> 
> Russian mechanical watch RAKETA Gorbachev Soviet vintage propaganda USSR 1990 | eBay
> 
> Amongst its other problems:
> 
> Case is not from Raketa
> The inner part of the dial is made for a circular watch, but the outer part is square
> Crown is wrong
> Movement does not correspond to the claimed period of manufacture.
> "PRESIDEHT" is an interesting hybrid spelling! The dialmaker has confused his Cyrillic with his Ehglisn.
> 
> !
> Paul


That is quite awful! Although I never knew that Gorbachev was the first 'President' of the USSR so I guess I learned something!


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## WelshWatchNut

Just checked some of the sellers' other watches. Oh dear....


----------



## Tarquin

WelshWatchNut said:


> Just checked some of the sellers' other watches. Oh dear....


The same vendor has one I really want, but he won't drop the unrealistic price at all. I made 3 offers too!


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## art1118

nht said:


> It's OK ! |>


NO, it is not OK to post threads to ongoing auctions. How am I going to get it cheap?o|


----------



## JRMTactical

art1118 said:


> NO, it is not OK to post threads to ongoing auctions. How am I going to get it cheap?o|


Art, a guy with 6 total posts asked about authenticity....nht, said it was authentic. It might not be an easy thing to deal with, but whatcha gonna do, lie to the man? It's gonna happen man, it aggravates me some too, but the dude only has 6 posts....we can't 'draw & quarter' him just yet.


----------



## art1118

JRMTactical said:


> Art, a guy with 6 total posts asked about authenticity....nht, said it was authentic. It might not be an easy thing to deal with, but whatcha gonna do, lie to the man? It's gonna happen man, it aggravates me some too, but the dude only has 6 posts....we can't 'draw & quarter' him just yet.


Suggest that he educate himself by searching this Forum (especially the Franken thread), the Internet, completed sales on eBay, our favorite Russian sellers, etc. This experience will expose him to a variety of Russian watches and may lead to all kinds of interests. Got to get Newbees off on the right track.


----------



## JRMTactical

Agree, but it's usually AFTER the fact (like above) that they gain their experience. Same thing happened with us Art, we had to find out the hard way....I'm still learning. These things here are how how we learn. i know you're upset about that Poljot, but word's gonna get out one way or another. Don't be too hard on him.


----------



## jtstav

I think I may have found a possible franken on the bay. Looks like a 3aka3 Komandirskie as stated on the dial but the caseback says "Amphibia" in cyrillic. Anyone have any opinions on this?


----------



## JRMTactical

jtstav said:


> I think I may have found a possible franken on the bay. Looks like a 3aka3 Komandirskie as stated on the dial but the caseback says "Amphibia" in cyrillic. Anyone have any opinions on this?


A watch just like that was my very first foray into buying Soviet era watches on the 'bay. I have seen more of those white dial 3AKA3 watches that are frankened than I can count. SEVERAL out of the UK from a good seller, that I once saw, and a bunch from the Ukraine ... I don't know the history of that particular dial, but you put 3AKA3 or ZAKAZ in the search string by itself and a fairly high number of these white dials will come up. This is one mystery I'd like to have solved.


----------



## jtstav

Your getting better results than me then. I did find it this way (by putting in "3aka3" in the search field) but very few watches come up. This was the only white one I found. So I'm guessing it is indeed a franken then. Pity; the dial is actually pretty cool.


----------



## JRMTactical

I'll give you an IDEA on what I believe the ORIGINAL version of this watch is/was supposed to be. Do a search on 'Komandirskie' on the 'bay, sort them as 'highest price first'. There's one listed for $700.00. It's not worth that by any stretch, BUT the source for the watch was an exchange from a Russian soldier to an American soldier. To me, this would be the ONLY original style that the watch came in. Specs would be a Type 349 case (TiN coated), gold hands, red/orange second hand, a TiN coated (gold color) bezel with 3, 6, 9 and 12'oclock triangle arrows with hash marks between (black color from just after the 12o'clock position to 9o'clock, then red from 9o'clock to 12o'clock. Plain case back with Cyrillic, or could have another case back i.e. 'Little Bird', etc. The ones that I've seen that can be traced back to the hands of a Russian or Soviet military sailor, soldier or airman ALL look like this. So, I believe any other case type or style (Amphibian) is a franken. NOW...let me quantify this by saying that this is my opinion based on the research I have done...nothing else. Could there also be another genuine production Komandirskie with the same dial in a 341 (chromed) case...maybe. However, every one that I've seen in other than the 349 case have subtle but distinctive variations. It is my HUMBLE opinion that there was a certain unused stock of these dials purchased by one or more individuals who used the 'ZAKAZ' markings to improve the sales chances of a particular watch...i.e. Frankenstein's laboratory. I think they took working Amphib's and Komandirskie's with 'run of the mill dials, changed the dials out with one of these "ZAKAZ" dials and put it up for auction as original. I think they were probably one of the last "ZAKAZ" runs made by Vostok before the collapse of the Soviet Union, and a Vostok worker found the dials probably just sitting around after 'the fall.' They found somebody with the money to buy them and pocketed the money. It seems strange that MANY of these white dials come from the Ukraine (not really, I'm being facetious). Anyway..to make a long story short, I've found two examples of this "ZAKAZ" that were actual 'face to face' trades from soldier to soldier after the end of the USSR, and they're all GOLD colored TiN coated, wearing the same style bezel, hands and case back. This is one that I've tried to research as best as I could and only now have I felt really comfortable writing this up and posting it. If someone has more info concerning the watches with this particular white dial, please let me know and I will research as best as I can to see if there were indeed an different variants. Whew... that was a mouthful! Hope it helps!


----------



## schnurrp

jtstav said:


> I think I may have found a possible franken on the bay. Looks like a 3aka3 Komandirskie as stated on the dial but the caseback says "Amphibia" in cyrillic. Anyone have any opinions on this?


This one has a new dial and hands. "3AKA3" characters are all the same size, hour hand is too wide, and second hand has lume dot too far out toward the numbers. There are several of these white dial amphibians that have been similarly faked that have shown up lately. These are worse than the run-of-the-mill frankens which, at least, are made up of actual old watch parts...my opinioin of course.


----------



## schnurrp

JRMTactical said:


> Art, a guy with 6 total posts asked about authenticity....nht, said it was authentic. It might not be an easy thing to deal with, but whatcha gonna do, lie to the man? It's gonna happen man, it aggravates me some too, but the dude only has 6 posts....we can't 'draw & quarter' him just yet.


I know it's more trouble but the problem could be partially solved by questioner posting screen-shots and other bits of info for analysis without posting link to the actual ebay ad. Once the newbie misses out on a good item or two he will learn to be more discreet for selfish reasons!


----------



## JRMTactical

I agree, I wish that we could have like a 3 day 'Study and Testing' period for new members. I just don't know how else it could be stopped. I hardly ever post a live link unless it's just something OUTRAGEOUSLY STUPID.... My reason has always been that it's 'free advertising' for the seller, and it's just not 'good form'. But you're definitely right...they'll post a link to something that they think is a sure thing for them to win...all the time he's just got 'sniper's' waiting for that last few seconds to plug in a certain winning bid. That usually stops the link posting.


----------



## Gravit

I have one like that, bought some time ago. I'm not disputing the claim that it has a new dial but how do you know?


----------



## schnurrp

Gravit said:


> I have one like that, bought some time ago. I'm not disputing the claim that it has a new dial but how do you know?


Of course without knowing how it was produced I suppose the answer is you can't know. You could ask the seller, I suppose.

So you have two choices:

1. This is a totally authentic watch never before seen that has been discovered.
2. This is a "faked" watch that is close to known authentic ones but misses the mark.

Just saying #2 is the correct choice...in my opinion.

With Russian watches we need to assume "guilty until proven innocent".


----------



## JRMTactical

schnurrp said:


> Of course without knowing how it was produced I suppose the answer is you can't know. You could ask the seller, I suppose.
> 
> So you have two choices:
> 
> 1. This is a totally authentic watch never before seen that has been discovered.
> 2. This is a "faked" watch that is close to known authentic ones but misses the mark.
> 
> Just saying #2 is the correct choice...in my opinion.
> 
> With Russian watches we need to assume "guilty until proven innocent".


I use Occam's Razor..(it's widely known, so I don't feel I need to explain), and particularly Bertrand Russell's particular take on it. "Whenever possible, substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities." I have taken 'known quantities' of watches with this particular dial, and looked for any other version of the watch. The only watch with this dial that is CONSISTENTLY correct is the one I explained in my little 'write up'. So, schnurrp is correct IMHO. The watch in particular there is faked/frankened, whatever you want to call it. There is no other "CONSISTENT" version of a Komandirskie with this white dial; and it is my opinion based on a ton of research that it was NEVER a dial for an Amphibian. Also note that any 'Amphibian' version of this watch is NOT (necessarily) an Amphibian. They usually turn out to be a 2414 movement with either Amphibian or Komandirskie hands in several different styles of cases with an Amphibian back...that would, by definition, make it an 'Antimagnetic' version, YET the dial is not marked 'ANTIMAGNETIC'...whereas all others are. Just more stuff to help try and back it up.


----------



## WelshWatchNut

I think with all these frankens and pitfalls to look out for you 'experts' should test us 'noobs' on why each posted timepiece is a duffer! Things like, incorrect mech, dial, crown, mismatched hands or whatever. Thoughts?


----------



## JRMTactical

WelshWatchNut said:


> I think with all these frankens and pitfalls to look out for you 'experts' should test us 'noobs' on why each posted timepiece is a duffer! Things like, incorrect mech, dial, crown, mismatched hands or whatever. Thoughts?


GULAG for you!!!


----------



## WelshWatchNut

I was being serious lol :-d


----------



## YG1

Central hand, crystal and crown


----------



## schnurrp

Another "Sportmanskie" dial similar to ill-phil's original post from our friend azb!


----------



## JRMTactical

schnurrp said:


> Another "Sportmanskie" dial similar to ill-phil's original post from our friend azb!


If you could take a Barnum & Bailey circus clown and morph it into a watch, this is what I imagine it would look like. Sheesh, how far does their debauchery go??!


----------



## Starman66

I bet the Raketa Watch Factory would be proud if they knew someone was creating beautiful dials for their watches like this :rodekaart 
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
(I couldn't copy the photos, so had to include the link instead)


----------



## WelshWatchNut

Starman66 said:


> I bet the Raketa Watch Factory would be proud if they knew someone was creating beautiful dials for their watches like this :rodekaart
> eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
> (I couldn't copy the photos, so had to include the link instead)


What the JC happened to that? Did some 8 yr old with a marker pen get hold of it? Waste of a Copernicus :-|


----------



## Pato Sentado

I know it is a franken (kommandirskie movement in an Amphibia tonneau case) but I got it to make some modifications in it that the more "historical" tonneau I already have would`t allow...


----------



## emoscambio

A Rakavin Corneta Perpedar Calentual


----------



## macleod1979

Where can I find a watch like that one? I want!

-J


----------



## 10 ATM

1952 MILITARY SOVIET USSR RUSSIA ARMY OFFICER MOLNIJA KOMANDIRSKIE STALIN WATCH | eBay

some fool has already bid 300 dollars on this










hold on ...it gets better:

From the same seller:












> *This large clock made for the pilot commander - during the flight he put watch back on its feet, and long strap secured to his feet to see, and it does not interfereduring the flight.*


----------



## admiralStojakovic

*VERY BEAUTIFUL VINTAGE WRISTWATCH! 
not Ship to RUSSIA !!!

*


----------



## schnurrp

Wow! That is way over the top! Wonder what the other two crowns are for on the top one? That guy should be ashamed for forcing his 5 year old daughter to model!


----------



## frantsous

How to be sure the seller are selling a Strela with a fake dial?

Lot at the feedbacks from *ussrwatch_com*!!!!!

Example: the bad seller from Uzbekistan named *superwatchesellers*.

He bought 2 fake STRELA dials:

BRAND NEW dial Russian chronograph STRELA Poljot 3017 | eBay

And he had 2 Strelas to sell:

Poljot Strela 3017 Chronograph Watch | eBay

Strela Poljot Chronograph USSR Cosmonauts Watch Very Rare | eBay

Hurry up guys, still one to buy


----------



## storyteller

This week the cigar is mine.


----------



## Seele

storyteller said:


> This week the cigar is mine.


And well deserved too... now where is my bottle of industrial strength Optrex?


----------



## 10 ATM

storyteller said:


> This week the cigar is mine.


You sure about that?


----------



## Ham2

10 ATM said:


> You sure about that?


I think I might know a potential buyer, but he may need to mod it..


----------



## JRMTactical

10 ATM said:


> You sure about that?


Gee, thanks guys....I just spit a mouthful of spaghetti and sauce all over my MacBook Pro...now I gotta clean this mess up! :-d

GOOD GOD!! Was the watch some sort of special tool for KGB Agents to hide a nuclear warhead in? I mean, dang!! I know people small enough to freaking LIVE inside that watch!! If for some reason you decided to throw that thing, NORAD would have to report a UFO sighting! Give me 3 more and I'd have a FULL SET of hubcaps!! ----Shall I continue?? :-d :-d


----------



## admiralStojakovic

I think that is a portable swimming pool.Hope it`s watertight. :-d


----------



## JRMTactical

They have Luch 1800 movements in them, so the extra space is like a 'wrist watch/wallet'!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!


----------



## admiralStojakovic

You know, maybe there ARE little tiny people in there turning all the wheels...or in this case basketball players...?


----------



## pad119

10 ATM said:


> You sure about that?


In Soviet Russia, watch wears you!


----------



## amphibic

10 ATM said:


> 1952 MILITARY SOVIET USSR RUSSIA ARMY OFFICER MOLNIJA KOMANDIRSKIE STALIN WATCH | eBay
> 
> some fool has already bid 300 dollars on this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hold on ...it gets better:
> 
> From the same seller:


After I saw this watches, I did my own wristwatch.
What are you thinking about it


----------



## JRMTactical

amphibic said:


> After I saw this watches, I did my own wristwatch.
> What are you thinking about it
> 
> View attachment 719311


ROTFL!!!!!!!!


----------



## schnurrp

I tried.....!


----------



## JRMTactical

schnurrp said:


> I tried.....!


That's a rather large band/strap there, Paul! Custom job? :-d


----------



## 10 ATM

not to be outdone:

(strap needs a bit of work though)


----------



## amphibic

comrades, very nice works!


----------



## vin-tik

admiralStojakovic said:


> *VERY BEAUTIFUL VINTAGE WRISTWATCH!
> not Ship to RUSSIA !!!
> 
> *


OMG! 
seller from Lviv, Ukraine
this guy really hates *Russians*..what a freak!o|


----------



## storyteller

Another swiss impostor. Fed up with these swiss pretending to be Soviet. Not the same quality, you know.


----------



## schnurrp

storyteller said:


> Another swiss impostor. Fed up with these swiss pretending to be Soviet. Not the same quality, you know.
> 
> View attachment 734554
> 
> 
> View attachment 734555


Soviet dial implant?


----------



## emoscambio

schnurrp said:


> Soviet dial implant?


Nope, Swiss crystal, case, caseback, crown, hands and movement implant! Now, about the dial's back pins, I am not so adamant!


----------



## schnurrp

emoscambio said:


> Nope, Swiss crystal, case, caseback, crown, hands and movement implant! Now, about the dial's back pins, I am not so adamant!


 Of course!


----------



## Ham2

Found this Slava white dialed diver watch whilst pottering around in e-Bay last night. I do not pretend to know anything about Slava watches, but I always thought this was a quartz model. Have I unearthed a rarity?

RARE VINTAGE RUSSIAN SOVIET SLAVA CCCP WATCH MEN'S MECHANICAL WINDUP WRISTWATCH


----------



## emoscambio

Ham2 said:


> Found this Slava white dialed diver watch whilst pottering around in e-Bay last night. I do not pretend to know anything about Slava watches, but I always thought this was a quartz model. Have I unearthed a rarity?
> 
> RARE VINTAGE RUSSIAN SOVIET SLAVA CCCP WATCH MEN'S MECHANICAL WINDUP WRISTWATCH


Also in the nice blue white red "hockey" combination, afaik a quartz.


----------



## emoscambio

... which comes back on the bay evey now and then.


----------



## Seele

As far as I know the quartz version of the "red and white" hasn't got date, and has the four o'clock crown. I have to admit that it's the first mechanical one that I have noticed.


----------



## Tarquin

I am relieved that this has received no bids yet, because it is an attractive watch despite its fake dial. Hopefully the wider ebay public are wise to this and the fraudsters will be out of pocket on this occasion.


----------



## Perdendosi

I'm usually not one to positively spot a franken, but this one made me throw up in my mouth a little:
VOSTOK/WOSTOK Komandirskie Amphibian MILITARY USSR Soviet WATCH 3AKA3 MO CCCP #2 | eBay














Maybe I shouldn't be so upset over a Amphibirskie, but everything seems wrong to me. The dial seems to be in too good of condition; I've not seen this 3aka3 with an external black bezel like this (mine has an internal, non rotating, black bezel) and then to put it in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE Amphibia case, and call it a 3aka3...
::sigh::

EDIT-- Oh, I made a mistake. The LISTING just said "3aka3", the watch doesn't actually. Still, though...


----------



## schnurrp

Good catch, there, perdendosi. As far as I know the 470 (octagonal) amphibian case only had the 2409 movement so if you see one with a date window dial it is definitely not right.


----------



## CAG_1337

I don't even know where to begin with this. Seller even says the dial reads "ZAK M3 MO CCCP"

Um, yeah....


----------



## amil

Perdendosi said:


> I'm usually not one to positively spot a franken, but this one made me throw up in my mouth a little:
> VOSTOK/WOSTOK Komandirskie Amphibian MILITARY USSR Soviet WATCH 3AKA3 MO CCCP #2 | eBay
> View attachment 761164
> View attachment 761165
> 
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't be so upset over a Amphibirskie, but everything seems wrong to me. The dial seems to be in too good of condition; I've not seen this 3aka3 with an external black bezel like this (mine has an internal, non rotating, black bezel) and then to put it in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE Amphibia case, and call it a 3aka3...
> ::sigh::
> 
> EDIT-- Oh, I made a mistake. The LISTING just said "3aka3", the watch doesn't actually. Still, though...


Ukraine, Ukraine


----------



## Chascomm

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/vintage-hand-make-rolex-718990.html


----------



## Perdendosi

I don't know if this is a franken or not, but the addition of the crazy military bezel and... what IS that band.. makes the "Big Zero" just look sad.
(By the way, whose picture is that on the cuff strap?)
MENS Soviet Raketa / Paketa Made in CCCP Watch | eBay


----------



## emoscambio

Perdendosi said:


> I don't know if this is a franken or not, but the addition of the crazy military bezel and... what IS that band.. makes the "Big Zero" just look sad.
> (By the way, whose picture is that on the cuff strap?)
> MENS Soviet Raketa / Paketa Made in CCCP Watch | eBay


I see this dial, case and bezel as genuine, Raketa aka Peterhoff aka Cornavin quartz. The strap is a soviet leatherette bund, with a cheesy vignetted picture of Gagarin.


----------



## mysterian

I've been getting rather perturbed at the audacity of certain sellers lately.
Take for instance this "find":
*WOSTOK KOMANDIRSKIE ZAKAZ MO USSR SOVIET MECHANICAL WATCH Perfect USSR Au*








At a glance one might be inclined to think that this is a rare NOS in the box Komandirskie,... but no,... it's just another crafty fake. Check out the crown stem visible between the dial edge and the case. The case even shows visible signs of use. No "PERFECT USSR" here! Some folks call this a franken,... but it's just an out and out fake as the seller is clearly trying to dupe you. This would be robbery at the listed price of $99 !!! I glad there are no bidders.

Then there's this ( among others) at one of our favorite fake-masters:
*USSR slim watch Poljot de luxe 23 j NOS new 1MChZ Kirov russian wristwatch*








Sure the case looks pretty shiny, and the photos are spiffy enough to entice, but this again is just another fake. This dial has been "outed" a few times in various discussions. Look at the slip shod alignment of the dial. All of the indices are terribly placed. The dial lettering even runs right into the indices at times. The angle of the 3 indices at 12 o'clock is also a dead give away. The real dial has indices that are parallel to each other.
Going by the title of this sale,... one can only come to the conclusion that this is just fraud. The seller clearly knows better.
The ridiculous price tag of "buy it now" for $195 is an insult. SHAME!!!
Please folks,... refrain from doing any business with these types of sellers. Your purchase of even their legit goods only enables them to do this even more and flood the market with garbage watches. There are plenty of honest sellers out there,... buy watches from them!

OK,... friday night rant complete.


----------



## DolleDolf

mysterian said:


> I've been getting rather perturbed at the audacity of certain sellers lately.
> Take for instance this "find":
> *WOSTOK KOMANDIRSKIE ZAKAZ MO USSR SOVIET MECHANICAL WATCH Perfect USSR Au*
> 
> View attachment 769467
> 
> At a glance one might be inclined to think that this is a rare NOS in the box Komandirskie,... but no,... it's just another crafty fake. Check out the crown stem visible between the dial edge and the case. The case even shows visible signs of use. No "PERFECT USSR" here! Some folks call this a franken,... but it's just an out and out fake as the seller is clearly trying to dupe you. This would be robbery at the listed price of $99 !!! I glad there are no bidders.(


Good rant!
The thing is that the mostly excellent seller sovieterawatch had one up just like it! Asking price was actually higher than the watch featured here. Not with the box and NOS baloney, but the same type of watch, the same stem-issue. I thought it was legit for the fact that he had it up. Glad I ended up not bidding for it.


----------



## mysterian

Here's another annoying case of frankenization brought to you this time by eBay seller sulfejo. 
This time the advertisement is a little tricky.

*Note the following points:*
The watch is never claimed to be totally authentic,... 
The seller only states that it is vintage _1971 - 1983_, and titles the watch a_s: SLAVA Automatic Russian Soviet Men's Watch_,... which is true.
The measurements and specs of the movement are also clearly stated,... most likely correctly.
It is also stated that _The watch is in good condition and working_.... and _You receive a product which see on pictures!_

So far the seller has been carefully correct with the advertisement, and it's not until you check the photos until you see that the watch is a fraud/franken. 
Here is the seller's photo:








I recognized the watch dial immediately as one not meant for this case. Notice how the dial markings along the perimeter describe a more rectangular shape rather than a circular one. Both at the top and the bottom of the dial one can clearly see the empty space between the markings and the case edge.
Almost everyone knows that this dial belongs to the very often seen Slava TV watch.
Here's a photo of one:








... and the case is from another Slava watch design as seen in this photo:









So,... there we have another attempt to have you spend your money on a mish-mashed franken that has even less value than the $19.95 that this watch is currently being offered for. 
If one isn't careful, you could eventually end up with a whole drawer full of worthless frankens that nobody wants, nobody collects and with the only historical value being that on such & such a day, you wasted your money on this junk. 
And,... now another seller joins my list of eBayers to be wary of.


----------



## DolleDolf

> frankenization brought to you this time by eBay seller sulfejo .... another seller joins my list of eBayers to be wary of


This seller is so cheap that i almost don't mind that some of the stuff he/she has is junk. The photos are poor and you really can't see what condition the watches are in. Then again, most of the offerings are in the $15-20 range. I have acquired a few watches from this seller. some of them were tattier than I htought they would be, but some quite a bit better. At this pricepoint I am really not that bothered, for this outlay I can live with having to be the expert. Now the other sellers like cherry_ua are much trickier. They will shamefully ask the same kind of $$ for a frankenized watch that a respected seller like ruslan of romantic_time or roman of sovieterawatch or sovietrarities ask for an original.


----------



## phd

//roman of sovieterawatch//

Since his name's been mentioned, I can say that I have probably bought over a hundred watches, and have never had cause to complain. His prices are creeping up, but then the market is going up and he's still very reasonable.

Paul


----------



## DolleDolf

phd said:


> //roman of sovieterawatch//
> Since his name's been mentioned, I can say that I have probably bought over a hundred watches, and have never had cause to complain. His prices are creeping up, but then the market is going up and he's still very reasonable.
> Paul


I love roman/sovieterawatch. Just got 5 watches off his site the other week.

Yet he sold the same watch as mentioned above, for twice the price that the seller above was quoting. I entertained the thought of getting that cheaper "NOS" watch as exactly the same watch was listed on sovieterawatch. So I assumed it to be OK.

VOSTOK KOMANDIRSKIE ZAKAZ MO USSR SOVIET MECHANICAL WATCH Perfect USSR | eBay

Caveat emptor.


----------



## mysterian

I am a little puzzled. I too am very fond of the seller sovieterawatch and consider him to be selling quality goods.
But this watch with the large gap between the dial and case just cannot be the way this watch was intended to be. I'm certain the original designer(s) would be upset at this.


----------



## emoscambio

mysterian said:


> I am a little puzzled. I too am very fond of the seller sovieterawatch and consider him to be selling quality goods.
> But this watch with the large gap between the dial and case just cannot be the way this watch was intended to be. I'm certain the original designer(s) would be upset at this.


This gap serves to compensate the differential expansion coefficients of watch case and dial at 2500 degrees Centigrades.


----------



## mysterian

emoscambio said:


> This gap serves to compensate the differential expansion coefficients of watch case and dial at 2500 degrees Centigrades.


Haha!
That's exactly how hot I get under the collar when I find out I've wasted my money on a misrepresented watch.


----------



## frantsous

phd said:


> //roman of sovieterawatch//
> 
> Since his name's been mentioned, I can say that I have probably bought over a hundred watches, and have never had cause to complain. His prices are creeping up, but then the market is going up and he's still very reasonable.
> 
> Paul


I am agree with you for the quality: Sovieterawatch is selling good stuff .... some franken, but overall one of the best seller on ebay.

But I really hate his game with the prices.

Here is an example of his game:

POLJOT MOSCOW 1985 XII INTERNATIONAL FESTIVAL SOVIET MECHANICAL WATCH RARE! | eBay

POLJOT MOSCOW 1985 XII INTERNATIONAL FESTIVAL SOVIET MECHANICAL WATCH RARE! | eBay

So after a no bid on a item, this one is relisted with a buy now for more than double of the bid price!!!


----------



## Gravit

frantsous said:


> So after a no bid on a item, this one is relisted with a buy now for more than double of the bid price!!!


Yes, I've noticed this new tactic but have not yet seen anyone buy a watch he re-listed at a much higher price.

It does seem that prices are creeping up all the time and not just Roman's. It's up to us really, not to bid on high-priced items and drop-out early when bidding wars start but if you do, you lose something you want! These watches are "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for them. Forums like this are causing prices to go up too.


----------



## mysterian

frantsous said:


> So after a no bid on a item, this one is relisted with a buy now for more than double of the bid price!!!


I've seen this with other sellers too. I don't understand the strategy though. 
For a while I had been stalking a Plarb that JL had for sale, when by chance one day (March 29) I noticed that he had it "on sale" for 202EUR which was a substantial decrease, but still a little over my limit. I sent in an offer for 150EUR, but was declined. The bid soon timed out and I noticed that it had been relisted at a greatly increased price! It is now still for sale at the same price over 4 months later at 344EUR. Perhaps he has more than one of this watch, but that retail strategy makes no sense to me at all.
Here is the watch:








There are also 2 other similar versions for sale at the moment by well known sellers, and I'm wondering if any are legit.
solar-city has this one:








And the afore-mentioned ruscamera has this one:








I would feel pretty confident with Juri Levenburg's watch, but his price is crazy. The other two, are in the more affordable price range, but I've got hesitations about the legitimacy of them. 
Could all 3 be valid? 
I almost hope they are not,... I can't afford all 3 of them!!!


----------



## mysterian

When I'm not able to find anything worth buying, I do love a good game of "Find the Franken" !
Today, I have this watch from a well known seller fialkin77:
LINK








I suspected something fishy about this one immediately. It was a square case designed watch screaming out in agony that someone had rudely dissected part of the inner "bezel" and crammed in a dial meant for a round shaped case.
Here is what the original watch probably looked like,... from the awesome ussr-watches.ru site :








I feel sad for the person that might spend $95 on the fialkin77 franken. Am I wrong?


----------



## fcafca

:roll: A portion of the "XII" marker is hidden. How to believe in the authenticity of this watch.

I have found this "strange" Mayak for sale on the german bay :









Here is mine, shown in the WRUW topic today. 
:think: This one seems redialed. Ok. But what is the meaning the two mysterious dates: 1770 1990. Could it be a "commemorative Mayak" ?


----------



## GlenRoiland

The one I "missed out on"
VOSTOK/WOSTOK Komandirskie Amphibian MILITARY USSR Soviet WATCH 3AKA3 MO CCCP #4 | eBay


----------



## redfever

My first post in this thread, so I hope I'm not completley wrong 

But those Kopernicus hands I just can't see belonging on that watch


----------



## mysterian

This CORNAVIN AMPHIBIA DE LUXE brought to you by eBay seller *rarity club:
*







I've read that Vostok made many watches for Cornavin, but I'm thinking that this one pictured above is a franken joke.

Check this thread for a real Cornavin Diver,... quite rare!!
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/cornavin-amphibian-double-calendar-red-dial-647000.html


----------



## wildpack

mysterian said:


> When I'm not able to find anything worth buying, I do love a good game of "Find the Franken" !...


Note to eBay sellers. Make sure there's at least one good watch for sale. Otherwise watchuseek forumers will go on an "outing" spree. ;-)


----------



## schnurrp

A very odd watch, mysterian. Aside from the dial, the watch has a 2409 movement usually found in later amphibia. Maybe they were running low on 470 and 420 bodies but had a 119 lying around!

I have a Vostok Almaz 18 jewel with the same dial and I always thought it was a franken but I'm not so sure anymore. I have seen this style Cornavin dial around enough to begin to believe it might be legitimate.


----------



## DolleDolf

Rarityclub is a bit of an oddball. I have just purchased a handful off his site about 10 days ago includnig what I think is a real old Signal with the Roman XII on top as seen on Mark Gordon's site, as well as what seems to be a genuine Saturn, again when referenced to MG's site. He typically also has some very obvious fantasy wathes. I was going to post that Cornavin fibby myself in its own thread. In fact, I may just do that because it may escape attention here.

Flaiklin disappoints me with that horrid square Poljot Alarm, he is supposed to be one of the good sellers. 

I have not been able to fault romantic_time and sovietrarities so far.


----------



## mysterian

It's been ages since anyone has posted an Azzy!
So,... without further ado I give you a franken Start by Azubkaua!








Wrong hands,.... really wrong hands.
One of the nicest features of this design is the hands. It's a shame they are missing!


----------



## Pato Sentado

I recently bought those two Amphibian Tonneaus from timepieces_ua:









Left one was quite nice, only hands where franken, modern ones. All other: Crown, caseback, closing ring, glass, movement.. were correct...

But the black one on the right... must have been suspicious that the seller had several similar ones in such a good shape...
Dial was "varnished" in a crude way, and when I tried to clean it it was sticky, so I cleaned it with alcohol... and both varnish and what I suppose was a decal went out... I have cleaned soviet Vostok dials before and apart than they are matt finished and with some elevation in the markings, they do not fade out with alcohol...

















Glass was a perfect spherical shape... more similar to actual 1967s... very nice but not authentic at all... as you can only appreciate that from the side, I didn´t notice that in eBay pictures...








Crown was a modern one in the corresponding 2209 axle... at least movement was correct...
I feeled real shame, as far as I though I was becoming an "expert" in collecting vintage Amphibias... and I got such a monster...


----------



## schnurrp

You are being a little hard on your choice, in my opinion. The crystal looks fine although more completely round like the type 350. It could have been used as they were both in production at the same time. The one to hope you don't get is the replacement with height at the edges, not a smooth curve from the bezel. It is hard to see in ebay pictures except that some distortion can be seen sometimes at the edges of the dial.

As far as the "decals", I think you were lucky before. Someone's attempt at "preserving" the dial may have altered the chemistry a bit so that when you removed the preservation you removed the original varnish too. Doubtful that someone would go to the trouble and expense to create decals for anything but the most expensive watches. Start looking for a new dial (contact Amil!).


----------



## mysterian

This is a terrible dial repaint job. Perhaps not a franken in the sense of mismatched parts,... but shocking none the less. Zoom in on the white dots to witness the amateur workmanship.
Has there ever been such a colour combination for this watch? 
Currently for sale by Azbukaua.


----------



## koutouzoff

Dials from this seller are systematically repainted, and so the hands...


----------



## emoscambio

A Sportivnye 2634 hides itself behind a fresh Shturmanskie mask!







310406819815


----------



## phd

Regarding Sovieterawatch (Roman Buvdoy), I've probably bought 100-150 watches from him over the years, and I have had very few which I consider suspect. Not to say he's perfect, but he's one of my favourite sellers and I'd like to support him.

Azbukaua is a different story. I bought lots of watches from him for several years, and they were good and reasonably priced. But then suddenly someone gave him a paintbox for Christmas, and he went to the dark side. His latest horror is below. Not only is the dial badly repainted, but the case has been given a quick visit from the aerosol can.


----------



## mysterian

Time for another sad fakery by Azbukaua. This time a mismatched dial that doesn't belong in this case. Oooop's,... look at where the "Made in USSR" inscription landed.
Also,... with this being a Raketa dial,... and an English inscription, shouldn't the date also be in English?


----------



## Perdendosi

A copernicus face with no copernicus hands, right? That's just sad...
VINTAGE RUSSIAN "RAKETA" MEN'S WATCH BEAUTIFUL DIAL | eBay


----------



## ch196

Perdendosi said:


> A copernicus face with no copernicus hands, right? That's just sad...


There's are legitimate Raketas with the Copernicus face but not the hands, as this catalogue page shows, but this isn't one of them


----------



## Perdendosi

Thanks for the clarification, Ch196.


----------



## mysterian

This is quite dreadful,... from seller atam26


----------



## emoscambio

mysterian said:


> This is quite dreadful,... from seller atam26


I guess that with the crown and its stem gone, the movement enjoys some rotational freedom degree. It probably lacks the fixing screws.


----------



## Frank451

This could be a fun thread, hopefully others will post pics as well.


----------



## mysterian

The fun continues,... 37 pages now!
Today's find is a decent looking Poljot amphibian but with a Vostok bezel. Just sad for that watch.
From seller 250diana, who is honest and actually states that the bezel is not original! ... Kudos! 
Anyway,... it could be a keeper if the proper bezel could be found.


----------



## emoscambio

_"HONESTY, VELOCITY, QUALITY - are our main rules. !!!"_







Price: only 110$ "buy now..."
Barely the price of a Chaika 2609H! But wait...


----------



## WelshWatchNut

Oh dear, that is nasty......


----------



## storyteller

Komandirskie SeDko 5


----------



## michele

storyteller said:


> Komandirskie SeDko 5
> 
> View attachment 813189


Fake Seiko dial on a fake (chinese) Komandirskie, completed with art-deco hands. 
One of the best Frankens ever.


----------



## wildpack

Now, I'm far from being an watch expert, but this is just pathetic
from sulfejo









A perpetual calendar without the calendar.

I keep looking for a nice example, and keep finding watches with day wheels that don't match the dial language. But this is a new low IMHO.

For 35$ I'd rather use a cell phone.

edit: second thought, maybe he just forgot to say "watch for parts only"


----------



## Vympel

Here's another fine one from sulfejo:









A 24h watch with a 12h dial including a 2628.H movement. o|

Reading tea leaves seems to be a whole lot easier compared to reading the time on this watch. At least he doesn't claim it to be 100% original.


----------



## Ham2

Sulfejo does appear to have more than his fair share of watches of questionable parentage.


----------



## mysterian

Here's a sad combination from eBay seller sorokaput2012:
Trying to fashion a Copernicus, but failing badly???

*Vintage Soviet russian watch RAKETA*
- Raketa copernicus hands
- 17 jewel Raketa dial - see this watch (link)
- has a 2614.H movement _with date_ - should be a 2609.HA with no date for Copernicus
- wrong case for both hands & dial - look here to see the correct watch with this case (Ill Phil)
- a copernicus should look similar to this - (Mark Gordon) see other Raketa Copernicus on his site too!
- wrong crown for all as well









The dial and movement belong together, but the rest doesn't at all.


----------



## YG1

Reprinted logos


----------



## Ham2

YG1 said:


> Reprinted logos


Nice catch - that might explain the significant loss of dial colour at the 6 and 12. I am guessing this dealer is from Budapest and who always seems to have a supply of strelas in good/excellent condition, especially the cases


----------



## YG1

Ham2 said:


> Nice catch - that might explain the significant loss of dial colour at the 6 and 12. I am guessing this dealer is from Budapest and who always seems to have a supply of strelas in good/excellent condition, especially the cases


Case is re-plated.


----------



## OKEAH

YG1 said:


> Reprinted logos


How? Where did he find the stamp? All the black part is boldly printed but how can it be reprinted on an old dial? Why did he miss KL-1?

EDIT: In fact, where is KL-1 from the original printing?


----------



## Ham2

OKEAH said:


> How? Where did he find the stamp? All the black part is boldly printed but how can it be reprinted on an old dial? Why did he miss KL-1?
> 
> EDIT: In fact, where is KL-1 from the original printing?


Excellent observation - all the Cyrillic Strela dials with telemetry scales I've seen have KL-1 stamped under the 19 КАМНЕИ. Not so for the plain dials.

It is also interesting that the sub-dials and outer scale area look dirtier than the dial, in general, and that dirt accumulates in well defined lines on either side of the indices. A cleaned and "partially restored" dial in a rechromed case (he forgot to use a brushed effect on the sides of the case) ?


----------



## schnurrp

If you're finished beating up the Strela here's one I noticed. This would be very attractive to the beginner (and it does look good) as it checks a lot of boxes. Even to those with some experience it's an impressive pile of parts. Using the 470 case as the "original" item there are the following mismatches: Movement (also civil instead of military), movement holder, dial, second hand, crown, and back.

Vostok Russian rare watch KOMANDIRSKIE AMFIBIYA military | eBay


----------



## Ham2

That is an impressive collection of watches all rolled into one


----------



## emoscambio

schnurrp said:


> If you're finished beating up the Strela


Like!


----------



## schnurrp

emoscambio said:


> Like!


You can buy it!

If we consider the movement as the "original" part then: Wrong movement holder, wrong hour and minute hands, wrong case & bezel, wrong crown, wrong back and back is cyrillic dial latin.

Most completely franken watch I have seen, to date, though frighteningly subtle.

I would be tempted to buy it at maybe half the asking price. I have three or four different watches that could benefit from those parts.


----------



## Ham2

That is one hell of a parts watch


----------



## Patagonico

Russian Mechanical Signal Alarm watch | eBay


----------



## schnurrp

Wow! A complete fake and this time the seller pulls no punches and either believed the Ukranian frankenmeister he bought it from or is flat out lying!


----------



## mysterian

Iloydcelsius gives us this franken 3017!


----------



## Ham2

Best part of that is the lack of anything from a 3017.


----------



## overakias

its not a 3017 but it maybe an eguel interesting and even more rare movement manufactured by 1st moscow watch factory! it looks to have alot of similarities but not exactly the same as KcsZ/Valjoux 61! maybe its some modification from it? you can see the 1mwf kcsZ movement in this link 
www.netgrafik.ch/images/mov_1mwf_kchz.jpg
movements1
maybe some more knowleged member can identifye exactly the movement, but i think the movement its original old 40s-50s 1MWF chronograph maybe a derive from valjux 61 or another model from valjoux!

and the dial looks from poljot 3133 civil shturmanskie! probably the original dail and hands were very very bad shape and were replaced from this ones
*1st Moscow Watch Factory*


----------



## Vympel

The long awaited 24h Raketa suitable for night use has finally arrived.


----------



## Ham2

overakias said:


> its not a 3017 but it maybe an eguel interesting and even more rare movement manufactured by 1st moscow watch factory! it looks to have alot of similarities but not exactly the same as KcsZ/Valjoux 61! maybe its some modification from it? you can see the 1mwf kcsZ movement in this link
> www.netgrafik.ch/images/mov_1mwf_kchz.jpg
> movements1
> maybe some more knowleged member can identifye exactly the movement, but i think the movement its original old 40s-50s 1MWF chronograph maybe a derive from valjux 61 or another model


I suspect it is Swiss based on the script on the balance bridge. It may be original other than the civilian 3133 dial


----------



## Gravit

Strela + sturmanskie + moreSOVIET POLJOT CHRONOGRAPH cal 3017 VALJOUX 1970's | eBay


----------



## CAG_1337

Behold the "Komandirskie Marksman." It could be yours for a mere $45 + the cost of shipping from Poland.


----------



## polmax3133

That, I believe, is a Landeron 48. THe dial is quite rare and may be worth the purchase price, however you would have to find a late-seventies or early-eighties 3133 to match it with.



overakias said:


> its not a 3017 but it maybe an eguel interesting and even more rare movement manufactured by 1st moscow watch factory! it looks to have alot of similarities but not exactly the same as KcsZ/Valjoux 61! maybe its some modification from it? you can see the 1mwf kcsZ movement in this link
> www.netgrafik.ch/images/mov_1mwf_kchz.jpg
> movements1
> maybe some more knowleged member can identifye exactly the movement, but i think the movement its original old 40s-50s 1MWF chronograph maybe a derive from valjux 61 or another model from valjoux!
> 
> and the dial looks from poljot 3133 civil shturmanskie! probably the original dail and hands were very very bad shape and were replaced from this ones
> *1st Moscow Watch Factory*


----------



## emoscambio

CAG_1337 said:


> Behold the "Komandirskie Marksman." It could be yours for a mere $45 + the cost of shipping from Poland.
> 
> View attachment 829767


_Камне*й*, Камне*й*, Камне*й*! _For crying out loud, not _Kamhen_!!!


----------



## emoscambio

Vympel said:


> The long awaited 24h Raketa suitable for night use has finally arrived.
> 
> View attachment 829085


Let us have one more laugh at the expense of the Navy:


----------



## art1118

Ha, Ha, Ha!!! This is great. My wife is German, and my daughter lived and worked in Germany for 18 years. Both have trouble, like in the clip, of pronouncing English words that start with th. The is da, thus is dus, thanks is sanks, etc. I sank you very much for posting this!


----------



## Perdendosi

I know some people frown on posting links to active auctions, but I just have to say...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sov...973707870?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item416b568a5e

Someone with more time and skill than I should buy this thing and give it a proper reworking. The case and the dial look so nice (separately) that it's a shame to see them together in such an unholy union.


----------



## Perdendosi

michele said:


> Fake Seiko dial on a fake (chinese) Komandirskie, completed with art-deco hands.
> One of the best Frankens ever.


Sorry I'm so late to the party on this one, but it's so ugly it's almost cute.


----------



## Chascomm

Patagonico said:


> Russian Mechanical Signal Alarm watch | eBay


How sad. A genuine limited edition Poljot Russian Aviator redialled as a Gagarin Shturmanskie. I don't recall which aviator was commemorated with the green alarm and seconds hands, but I think it was from the second series. It even has the original strap.










No, sorry, I'll correct myself: The limited edition number is missing so it is not a conversion of an existing complete watch. This watch has probably been made from surplus parts stock left over from Poljot's Russian Aviator series from 8 or 9 years ago.

I'll tentatively point the finger at an anonymous small-time assembler based in Moscow.


----------



## admiralStojakovic

Could this seem real? :-d








It acutally has a original 2214 inside, but... c'mon :-s


----------



## schnurrp

admiralStojakovic said:


> Could this seem real? :-d
> View attachment 833435
> 
> 
> It acutally has a original 2214 inside, but... c'mon :-s


Admiral, that one has been on ebay as long as I can remember and I believe it's been nominated for "Franken of the week" more than once! I have considered buying it for a parts watch just to get it off the 'bay. The seller should receive an award for persistence!


----------



## admiralStojakovic

schnurrp said:


> Admiral, that one has been on ebay as long as I can remember and I believe it's been nominated for "Franken of the week" more than once! I have considered buying it for a parts watch just to get it off the 'bay. The seller should receive an award for persistence!


Sorry, guess i missed it. Hard to miss though . Maybe a buy for the parts wouldn't be bad idea.


----------



## Ham2

Is this a legendary, rare as a golden egg laying dodo 31659 Okean! 

I suspect a couple of very collectible chronographs were mated to produce this latest offering from an up-and-coming frankenmaitre.


----------



## CAG_1337

schnurrp said:


> Admiral, that one has been on ebay as long as I can remember and I believe it's been nominated for "Franken of the week" more than once! I have considered buying it for a parts watch just to get it off the 'bay. The seller should receive an award for persistence!


Yep, and I've been seeing this poor little Chinese number, the "Komandirskie Gladiator," week after week lately that I've wanted to put it out of its misery. If only it had a cobra on the dial; that'd be sweeeet!


----------



## overakias

admiralStojakovic said:


> Could this seem real? :-d
> View attachment 833435
> 
> 
> It acutally has a original 2214 inside, but... c'mon :-s


i did not see it on the bay but if had genuine 2214 movement maybe its genune wostok that has lost its brand name on the dial and the seller writte with pencil wostok! that was not really necesery, enyone that would recognise it has vostok movement and buy it, but probably he right the wostok logo for non wus members who dont know what they buying for and need to see brand name on dial! my 2cent opinion! :-d

not bad idea for parts alltough i always pitty watches that hasnt full destroyed cases to be cannibilised (spare parts!) i am too much romantic! :-d


----------



## overakias

i just make research and find it on the bay, i beleive its genuine wostok watch with the logo of wostok gone and the seller writte with pencil so to prove its vostok! silly idea too bad for the watch, and the price its good!


----------



## overakias

another nice amphibian antimagnetic with fake dial!









they seem they over produce this dial style lately!:-d


----------



## redfever

Don't gag.... poor old copernicus, why would someone want to deface it like that.


----------



## emoscambio

redfever said:


> Don't gag.... poor old copernicus, why would someone want to deface it like that.


Almost the same one was discussed some months ago, made in Poland...


----------



## DolleDolf

Oh dear oh dear I thought when I saw this one .... very similar to the one above! A fibby with a fake aviation dial.

Ebay site won't let me save the pic so here is the shortcut.

VOSTOK KOMANDIRSKIE AMPHIBIAN WATCH PILOT OBSERVER B-UHR NAVIGATOR's MILITARY | eBay

On a brighter note: Five years of Franken of the Week today!!! Yayyyyy!!!!!


----------



## Knight

Picture of the watch mentioned in the previous post:


----------



## WelshWatchNut

DolleDolf said:


> Oh dear oh dear I thought when I saw this one .... very similar to the one above! A fibby with a fake aviation dial.
> 
> Ebay site won't let me save the pic so here is the shortcut.
> 
> VOSTOK KOMANDIRSKIE AMPHIBIAN WATCH PILOT OBSERVER B-UHR NAVIGATOR's MILITARY | eBay


Its a shame as I used to rate this seller as one of the better ones but recently there are more and more dodgy pieces infiltrating his sales :/ Not all his stuff is bad but a weather eye is needed when purchasing


----------



## Perdendosi

Knight said:


> Picture of the watch mentioned in the previous post:
> 
> View attachment 838449


I hate to say it, but I kinda like the look of it. Plus, that bezel is kinda cool too. Has anyone seen the bezel before?

If it were 1/3 the price... okay, I still wouldn't buy it. (Okay, maybe I'd buy it but just wouldn't tell y'all!)


----------



## Pato Sentado

I can´t discuss the roman digits 24h raketa is a franken, but Sulfejo is, in my opinion, a good seller, I have bought him several 2209 Tonneaus in a great shape correct components. Also recommended for Bund straps.


----------



## amil

it is not Ukraine. This dial is made in the factory at the end of the evil empire


----------



## Timepiece Tenderfoot

I guess these will be more and more common :roll:


----------



## emoscambio

Timepiece Tenderfoot said:


> I guess these will be more and more common :roll:


I just love Albapros watches... ( Альбапрос)


----------



## sprezzatura

I may have spotted two, although I'm a newbie so I might be wrong. Please correct me if so.

Anyways, #290795504964 @ eBay. The minute and hour hands are changed. They're not the same color as the seconds hand, which has a slight discoloration as of age. Further, the serial number at the back isn't in line, the 5 and 8 are jumping out of the line.

And #121001407846 @ eBay. I think the dial is changed. Latin alphabet paired with a movement with 1MЧ3 stamps.


----------



## Gravit

Combination of Raketa diver plus Raketa 24 hour with hands from a third watch.


----------



## emoscambio

sprezzatura said:


> I may have spotted two, although I'm a newbie so I might be wrong. Please correct me if so.
> 
> Anyways, #290795504964 @ eBay. The minute and hour hands are changed. They're not the same color as the seconds hand, which has a slight discoloration as of age. Further, the serial number at the back isn't in line, the 5 and 8 are jumping out of the line.
> 
> And #121001407846 @ eBay. I think the dial is changed. Latin alphabet paired with a movement with 1MЧ3 stamps.


I personally would not say so. I think both watches are OK.

As to the first offer, I personally have many old watches in which the dial oxidated quicker than the hands or the opposite. Besides, these hands are pretty easy to clean or repolish, since they are simply made of brass, while cleaningor polishing the dial markers isn't a piece of cake.

The serial number is often not perfectly in line, because the it is like a dating stamp, on which the wheels for each number do not always align perfectly, due to the strong impact or pressure when stamping numbers for tenths of thousands of times.

As for the second offer, movements are just made in a first go, mostly some months in advance to the watches, which are issued in smaller numbers and different designs. Some companies stamped them specially in latin characters for their use in latin (export) dialed watches, other ones did not, or only did later on in history. It makes little sense in fact, as the movement is a hidden part, to change the stamping, and to organize the stocking of two different movements ahead, not knowing in advance how many watches of export and domestic market are going to use them.


----------



## schnurrp

I agree they are both fine.

The first has brass hands, probably, but they are gold-plated to match the markers. 

The second is missing the "bubble" crystal which is common replacement for an old watch.


----------



## mysterian

This dial was previously pointed out by Storyteller in post #405 of this thread...

The infamous fake Poljot/Luch slim brought to you by eBay seller tdn74-2008.
This seller has a number of credible watches ( I think ) for sale,... I wonder if he realizes the faults with this one?


----------



## Chascomm

Gotta love this :-d First read the title of the listing....
*
VINTAGE MERCEDES BENZ OLD AUTOMOBILIA ALARM OLD WATCH Ca 1950*








Vintage Mercedes Benz Old Automobilia Alarm Old Watch CA 1950 | eBay

...now read the description:

_"Swiss made hand wind movement in good working condition, 18 jewels, Ref. 2812. The width of the watch without the crown is about 36mm, 45mm lug to lug. Stainless steel 3 ATM waterproof screw back case(water resistence of vintage watches is NOT guaranteed) in good condition. The case has been polished and looks like new.*The refinished (not original from factory) black dial* is in good condition, signed as well. Roman numbers. Original luminous hands. Original crowns(unsigned). Plastic crystal (no scratches). It comes fitted with a new black leather band(not original). This USED watch is in good running order with normal evidence of age.

Ca 1950´s"_

So the 'Mercedes Benz' part of this listing is totally bogus, and obviously so for anybody who reads the description. Slightly less obvious are the bogus references to 'Swiss made' and 'circa 1950s'.

Any takers for only $495?

For the newbies to this forum, this is a Poljot cal. 2612 housed in a Poljot case type 141.

Incidentally, the hands are consistent with those used in Hong Kong assembled (Winsky Int'l) 2612/141 type watches sold to a European client circa 1999, e.g.


----------



## mysterian

Here's a very special Slava that was marked both for domestic AND export sales at the same time! 
From eBay seller sorokaput2012 .... quite funny!


----------



## emoscambio

mysterian said:


> Here's a very special Slava that was marked both for domestic AND export sales at the same time!
> From eBay seller sorokaput2012 .... quite funny!
> 
> View attachment 861668


Just wondering whether or not the white bezel rotates...


----------



## emoscambio

A big guy can also be frankened, isn't it?

The same chap sells an original, and a frankened ABPM with a ludicrous dial and a shameful mess of a relume... or does LiquidPaper now glow in the dark?


----------



## OKEAH

emoscambio said:


> Just wondering whether or not the white bezel rotates...


Yes, by 60 degrees (and integer multiples thereof...) b-)


----------



## Generalskie

Don't know if it has been featured before but here is The famous MOSKVA FOOTBALL !










From ebay seller Fialkin77


----------



## wildpack

Generalskie said:


> Don't know if it has been featured before but here is The famous MOSKVA FOOTBALL !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From ebay seller Fialkin77


Are these really frankens, or was it popular for people to "personalize" their watch faces? Maybe this will become valuable as Soviet folk art?


----------



## Ham2

Another offering from the aforementioned seller. Is it an old ministry? A Neptune? A new, shiny, but not quite the right size, dialed, antimagnetic? Rare? Got to be for $300. You betcha. 

330820967604


----------



## amil

a very rare case and caseback


----------



## emoscambio

What about this one?


----------



## polmax3133

I may have bid on this watch if it weren't for a previous problem I had with the seller. I requested overseas shipping and the parcel was returned to Germany - either due to the sellers incompetent rendering of my address, or Canada Post's incompetant deciphering of the address, or both. He then refused to resend unless I pain extra handling fees - which I did because I had already invested eighty euros. And then, to top the whole experience off, when the watch finally did arrive, months and months after the auction had ended, it wasn't in very good condition. :-(

Anyway, this is a very rare Poljot "Brezhnev" chronograph with black enamel bezel, gilt case, and original Poljot strap ca. 1995. I'm not sure I would ever wear it, but I would like to purchase it for my collection regardless.


----------



## OKEAH

No, Comrade, this one is legit. I have the same. See this old thread:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/general-secretary-central-committee-chronograph-40481.html


----------



## Chascomm

OKEAH said:


> No, Comrade, this one is legit. I have the same. See this old thread:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/general-secretary-central-committee-chronograph-40481.html


What I want to know is why it was made. This particular style of case used for commemorative watches was not introduced until a few years after the end of the USSR. Why would Poljot in the mid-to-late 1990s produce 999 watches commemorating Leonid Brezhnev? Who would have bought it back then?


----------



## emoscambio

Chascomm said:


> What I want to know is why it was made. This particular style of case used for commemorative watches was not introduced until a few years after the end of the USSR. Why would Poljot in the mid-to-late 1990s produce 999 watches commemorating Leonid Brezhnev? Who would have bought it back then?


Tourists? Not that Brezhnev would have suddenly become the most popular Soviet Politician... Or was it an upgrade of Raketa watch for blind people?


----------



## Ham2

This may be a repost of a franken on you-know-where, but I cannot help but feel sorry for this watch (200843640041).


----------



## Topi

Ham2 said:


> This may be a repost of a franken on you-know-where, but I cannot help but feel sorry for this watch (200843640041).


Ouch. Is it a Landeron 48-based chrono with a Cyrillic Poljot dial (and possibly at least one 3133 hand, the chrono minute hand?)

The seller has chosen an interesting name, by the way.

Topi


----------



## schnurrp

Nice black-on-black date wheel!


----------



## Chascomm

schnurrp said:


> Nice black-on-black date wheel!


It can only be read by vampires. The sort who steal the souls of vintage Swiss chronographs.


----------



## OKEAH

Actually it's that dial I would steal myself...


----------



## Ham2

It is almost tempting for that ПОЛЕТ marked dial.


----------



## DolleDolf

Subtle ....









Compare to Mark Gordon's example


----------



## emoscambio

DolleDolf said:


> Subtle ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare to Mark Gordon's example


Some findings:
- The Н in СПУТНИК became somehow higher
- The З in 1МЧЗ им КИРОВА became quite rounder
- The 3-6-9-12 markers are thinner
- The 2 in the 12 o'clock marker lost its initial descending tip at the upper left
- The 6 in the 6 o'clock marker lost its initial descending tip at the upper right


----------



## emoscambio

_"Sometimes you know that it is frankened, but not how much it is frankened._"

Let me tell you my own experience with a frankened watch I wanted to _redial _with a 1 USD NOS 1995 50 Let Pobeda dial. Of course a Vostok Dial...

On the other hand it did cost me only _2 Polish Zloty (0.6 USD)_. And believe it or not, it works fine and is at +6 secs/day.

The magnificent bracelet is from _Tchibo_, but costed _twice the price of the watch_.

At first sight it looks OK...








Right, the dial is perhaps newer than the watch, but I am about to replace it, who cares...








The back is perfect, seagull on sunset.









Hold on!!!! What the .... ?????









A 26mm Poljot 2614.2H movement????
Instead of a 24mm Vostok 24xx?
How did they manage?
And what about the winding stem?
Not that Poljot instead of Vostok is a bad deal, on the contrary, but come on!!!

The point is, I cannot redial it since the dial's feet just won't fit.
Has anyone a spare movement for this case?
What Vostok model  am I supposed to look for?


----------



## Seele

I have seen examples of Vostok hand-wind Komandirskies with Poljot movements on ebay in the past, and if I remember correctly, a vendor said that for a short period, Vostok was running low on movements so they bought some from Poljot. It would be very difficult to verify this either way, of course.

Not only would the dial feet and stem have to be different from the regular Vostok ones, it is also possible that the hands have to be different to get fitted to the Poljot movement, as the hand holes might not be the same. Also interesting is the use of Amphibia hands rather than Komandirskie hands, but if Vostok had to buy a batch of movements from Poljot to tide themselves over, then anything could have happened.


----------



## emoscambio

Seele said:


> I have seen examples of Vostok hand-wind Komandirskies with Poljot movements on ebay in the past, and if I remember correctly, a vendor said that for a short period, Vostok was running low on movements so they bought some from Poljot. It would be very difficult to verify this either way, of course.
> 
> Not only would the dial feet and stem have to be different from the regular Vostok ones, it is also possible that the hands have to be different to get fitted to the Poljot movement, as the hand holes might not be the same. Also interesting is the use of Amphibia hands rather than Komandirskie hands, but if Vostok had to buy a batch of movements from Poljot to tide themselves over, then anything could have happened.


I think this one is home made, the stem is a real mess to put back, also, there is a piece of gasket glued to hold the movement at the stem level.

The only occurrence I knew about was the Poljot 2612, still available nowadays in few Chistopol watches.


----------



## Seele

emoscambio said:


> I think this one is home made, the stem is a real mess to put back, also, there is a piece of gasket glued to hold the movement at the stem level.
> 
> The only occurrence I knew about was the Poljot 2612, still available nowadays in few Chistopol watches.


Hmm... in that case it is likely that the dial feet had been cut off and attached with dial dots. Any Vostok 2414 should fit and work correctly, but getting an original chrome-plated large dome-ended crown/stem might be a little tricky. I am still looking for one but with the supposedly more common flat-ended crown, and it's proving to be a bit of a wild goose chase.


----------



## emoscambio

A UNIQUE Raketa Amfibia!!! I reckon even phd hasn't got such one yet.


----------



## Chascomm

I once found a German site listing soviet/Russian movements and there was a reference to Poljot 2616.2N in Vostok watches, but I was never confident of the accuracy of the information and I have long ago lost the link. All things considered, a franken watch is more likely.


----------



## emoscambio

Moved to new thread: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/poljot-bienna-stamped-2409-a-780595.html


----------



## schnurrp

Oh fialkin, say it isn't so!




























Somebody tell me Vostok made a negative (black on white) dial Old Ministry Neptune with civil 2409 movement and restore my faith in a previously often recommended seller. You could get it for your personal inspection for $300 or offer.


----------



## Ham2

$300; Well, I suppose it is an original - not sure what - but original nonetheless.


----------



## OhDark30

Old Russian made POBEDA men's wristwatch

I've seen some dials on these that are too pristine to be true, but nothing like this!


----------



## Ham2

OhDark30 said:


> Old Russian made POBEDA men's wristwatch
> 
> I've seen some dials on these that are too pristine to be true, but nothing like this!


Playdough numerals?


----------



## OhDark30

Great, aren't they?







For disproportionate effort, I'm reminded of the writing made up of atoms that scientists like to do to show off their latest nano-manipulators
Surely a bit of gold paint and a brush would have been easier?


----------



## RobNJ

I'm new to this game. But am I right that this dial, in this Slava TV case, is just a bit off?


----------



## mysterian

Yes indeed,... That beat up Slava case contains a round dial screaming in pain at having both its head and legs cut off.

At least the date wheel is in Cyrillic to match the dial...


----------



## RobNJ

And the hands may be correct to the face, or at least close (I can find a black version of the "face" watch online; I just don't seem to be able to get a picture to post). Still, that's like saying, "it was a horrible accident, but at least his hair was perfect."


----------



## schnurrp

OhDark30 said:


> Great, aren't they?
> 
> View attachment 893979
> 
> 
> For disproportionate effort, I'm reminded of the writing made up of atoms that scientists like to do to show off their latest nano-manipulators
> Surely a bit of gold paint and a brush would have been easier?


Looks authentic to me. Applied numbers are less common but not exactly rare.


----------



## OhDark30

schnurrp said:


> Looks authentic to me. Applied numbers are less common but not exactly rare.
> 
> Sorry folks!
> Looks like I'm running before I can walk
> Thanks for putting me straight, schnurrp


----------



## Topi

Here's an interesting piece: 181039675698

Among other things there's something I'd elsewhere noticed before - the caseback ВМФ and anchor look lasered, not stamped. 

Topi


----------



## Ham2

Topi said:


> Here's an interesting piece: 181039675698
> 
> Among other things there's something I'd elsewhere noticed before - the caseback ВМФ and anchor look lasered, not stamped.
> 
> Topi


So many things wrong with that one ranging from fake dial to rebuilt movement. A lot of effort went into creating that beastie.


----------



## Ham2

Another contender: 170964146385


----------



## Topi

This is a lovely Ebay item: KOMANDIRSKIE VOSTOK Mechanical Made in USSR | eBay

Everybody's got a Soviet/Russian franken, actual fakes of Russian watches aren't that usual.

I'm almost tempted to offer USD20 for this, just for the privilege of owning a fake Vostok with a CSM.

Topi


----------



## Ham2

Not a franken, but questionable authenticity perhaps. I noticed an OKEAH on the Bay with a nice original dial in the rarer case with the red numbered bezel. No serial number or movement photo (very unusual for the seller). 

271127322776

This looks suspiciously like one he had been trying to sell for the past few weeks but in a case with black bezel and yellow numbers. This had a nice clean movement and serial number of 4006. 

271125375293

What makes me suspicious is that both OKEAHs have the same misaligned indice marker at the 4 and the same black mark above the 3 in 23 камня. Not a franken but a recase for increased desirability. Authenticity? I suppose that is a personal decision.


----------



## Stone Hill

I got one just like that a few years ago and it had a standard Chinese movement in it. I love how the trooper on the front has a M-16 in his hands.


----------



## redcow

Stone Hill said:


> I got one just like that a few years ago and it had a standard Chinese movement in it. I love how the trooper on the front has a M-16 in his hands.


You are right about the M-16! Sharp eye and pretty funny!


----------



## mysterian

Azbukaua strikes out once again with his paintbrush to create this:









Here's what it should probably look like:


----------



## Ham2

mysterian said:


> Azbukaua strikes out once again with his paintbrush to create this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what it should probably look like:


His brushwork is greatly improved.


----------



## Euglev84

I'm new to watch collecting and have taken a liking for the vintage russian watches. I got this one as a gift and have come to a conclusion that this is what you call a "franken watch". I want to find out what am I working with over here. Like to know if anyone recognized the mechanism? Year, model, make all could be great info. There are a few makering on the inside (SU, 5602, 232202 and 85)

The watch was sold on ebay as a *Soviet USSR Watch Molnija Komandirskie SMERSH.

*


----------



## billbrasky

Raketa "school"









but...........









...missing it's defining characteristic. The integrated lugs on the caseback. Also has the wrong movement and hands.

BIN for $17.50 and the same seller has a couple real "schools" or sale so he obviously knows the difference. A lot of trouble or $17.50.


----------



## azura123

Stone Hill said:


> I got one just like that a few years ago and it had a standard Chinese movement in it. I love how the trooper on the front has a M-16 in his hands.


Indeed a military edition..


----------



## Shep

Posted this on main Russian forum but no response a lot of views however.

Just got this Russian watch and I'm pleased with it, has a 3602 movement, After reading this forum I realized when it comes to Russian watches I have a lot to learn. This watch looks great. Frank or not I like it. Being a collector of other watches I see things after reading your forums that say Frank.

1. Face dial just too nice of conduction, Plain which is good unlike other Franks are to fancy, but that could be the trick!
2. Numbers are of a fluorescent or illuminating paint. Which by the way does not keep it's charge, and not of that suggested time period.
3. Lungs are a hex nut then brazed and chromed
4. Case back has a mineral crystal very thick, not likely for the supposed age "Early 50's"

Any comments or information will be gladly accepted, Frank or not I like the watch give me the facts please.

All comments welcomed!

Added Comment: The Movement keeps great time!

Regards Shep









What is the eyeloop for on the band holder?



Hex Nut Lug?


For examining illumination I would suggest getting a LED ultraviolet flashlight works great. UV (ULTRAVIOLET) LED Flashlights and Blacklight
s


----------



## Chascomm

Shep, I replied on the other thread.

I don't know why you expect that the membership here should jump to attention and reply to you just because the time is convenient for you. Part of participating on an international forum is learning to wait.


----------



## Shep

Chascomm said:


> Shep, I replied on the other thread.
> 
> I don't know why you expect that the membership here should jump to attention and reply to you just because the time is convenient for you. Part of participating on an international forum is learning to wait.


Yes I understand but I have no life just watches and TV or XBMC and Sickbeard very sad for me......


----------



## WelshWatchNut

Euglev84 said:


> I'm new to watch collecting and have taken a liking for the vintage russian watches. I got this one as a gift and have come to a conclusion that this is what you call a "franken watch". I want to find out what am I working with over here. Like to know if anyone recognized the mechanism? Year, model, make all could be great info. There are a few makering on the inside (SU, 5602, 232202 and 85)
> 
> The watch was sold on ebay as a *Soviet USSR Watch Molnija Komandirskie SMERSH.
> 
> *


It started life as a 1985 Molnija pocket watch with a 3602 movement before it got brutally messed with (soldered on lugs, fake tourist dial etc)


----------



## frantsous

Fake Poljot 2209 from Serbia:

Not matching replacement hours hand:









Movement 2209 from Luch, not Poljot:


----------



## wildpack

frantsous said:


> Fake Poljot 2209 from Serbia:
> Not matching replacement hours hand:
> Movement 2209 from Luch, not Poljot:


Do you think the dial is OK? Or have they just ironed out initial production problems with the fake dial? (three lines at 12 seem to be parallel and other batons seem to be the right length)


----------



## frantsous

I don't know if the dial is a fake or a NOS from spare parts. But what is sure is that this dial have been added in this franken watch because it looks good. I am sure somebody will pay $60 for it


----------



## koutouzoff

This was franken... The case and the bezel come from an early civilian and is chromed.
I had the opportunity to see the mechanism: not as early as it should be.
very nice strap however...


----------



## jrhillma

I'm new to Russian watches, and definitely a neophyte at spotting frankenwatches and fakes. Some of them (hand re-painted dials) seem pretty obvious, but some of the more subtle modifications are problematic for me. Owing to an ongoing battle with "the virus of the month" (my doctor assures me there is an ICD10 code for that), I've had some free time the last couple of days to surf this thread, poke around on eBay and in the Russian Watch forum here. Your posts have been very informative, even if I frequently find myself thinking, "And? What's the glaringly obvious clue I'm missing??" heh

As I've grown this sudden urge to buy a Soviet-era Amphibian, I figured I'd drop in these pics from a current offering as my 'baptism by fire.' I'm not sure if this is truly a franken or not, but I have an uneasy feeling about it. Before I tell you what I think is not right, let me show you some pictures. Then you can hopefully collectively assist in my education. 

































The watch is described as a "RARE" (aren't they all??? HAHA) "Vostok Amphibia Navy 23J". I think it happens to look pretty cool, and automatic movements are very appealing to me. Go figure.

Starting from the outside in, it looks to me like an Amphibian 420 case, although the bezel doesn't have the lume dot at the top (I guess, from reading, that not all did, so this is non-conclusive). No case back is pictured, unfortunately, although I wonder why, considering the quality of the other images. The rubber gasket does look like it has two grooves (Amphibian type, versus the single groove Komandirskie type). The dial is clearly marked "Komandirskie", with the circle-B Boctok logo, but I don't see any note of jewel count, which appears between the center and the 3 on the other "submarine" date dials (like this one, not the newer submarine ones, which look different) I've seen, and I think they've all said 17 jewels. But maybe I haven't seen them all. There is no country-of-origin marking visible on the dial. Considering the submarine design, compared to the other examples I've seen, I'd expect this to read "Сделано в CCCP" down under the 6. Or, maybe even "Product of Russia" or "Made in Russia" if it was for export. 

The movement model designation isn't visible in the last picture, but I'm reasonably confident--even in my admitted naiveté--that it's a Boctok 2416 movement. At least it sure looks like the pictures I've seen here on WUS and elsewhere. The question, though, is how the seller gets to 23 jewels, when the 2416 is 21 jewels and the 2416b is (a fantastical?) 31 jewels.

As frankens go, especially a lot of the ones shown in this thread, I think this one is pretty mild. Maybe it's just Komandirskie guts transplanted into an Amphibian 420 donor case. Maybe it's just a Komandirskie re-dial of the original Amphibian 2614. Or, and feel free to school me here, maybe I'm completely wrong and Vostok actually shipped Komandirski-Amphibians out the door.

I look forward to any replies, especially those of the edifying type.  Regardless, the search for my first Soviet-era Amphibian continues. Oh! Before I forget...the lume dots on the Vostok dials, is it common for them to look "clumpy" like the ones on this watch? I've seen a few that way, but figured it was a heavy handed re-lume job at some point in the watches life. As long as I'm on that subject, it seems to me the lume dots on the face of this dial are sort of squashed under the edges of the case (look at the 10 dot, in particular), something I haven't seen on any of the other examples I've looked at.

(special thanks to schnurrp for pointing me in the right direction earlier)


----------



## Lampoc

Is it just me or does this look like a genuine movement and dial inside one of those crappy fake Chinese cases?



















ebay auction here: watch vostok komandirskie zakaz mo ussr | eBay


----------



## Stone Hill

He posted photos of the movement this afternoon. And it had a standard Chinese movement in it. It was a *ZJS* made in the Shijiazhuang factory.


----------



## Lampoc

Stone Hill said:


> He posted photos of the movement this afternoon. And it had a standard Chinese movement in it. It was a *ZJS* made in the Shijiazhuang factory.


 I'm not sure if this was in reply to my franken-chinese-case post, but that's definitely a Vostok 2414 movement in it.










http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/watch-vos...s&hash=item3ccdd41578&clk_rvr_id=436755095963


----------



## Stone Hill

Sorry I replied to the wrong guy. I was talking about the one with the trooper with the M-16 on the face.

KOMANDIRSKIE VOSTOK Mechanical Made in USSR | eBay


----------



## mp34me

On ebay - "Rare Vostok Amphibian Komandirskie Automatic Diver Men's Watch"

RARE VOSTOK Amphibian KOMANDIRSKIE Automatic Diver Men's Watch | eBay


----------



## Starman66

Very rare white Cyrillic STRELA / POLJOT1950s chronograph USSR wristwatch ! | eBay
This seller has sold several "Strela" 3017s with fake dials in the past, one among several giveaways being the badly printed КИРОВА where the И & Р touch each other. Some are blindingly obvious, some not so much if you haven't seen the real thing before. This example is much better, but I'm still very suspicious about the rough looking surface of the dial. I have had several genuine Strela 3017s in the past, and I'm sure the surface of the dials have been nice and smooth, not cardboard looking like this. Am I seeing things, or is this a better printed fake? The numbers and batons don't seem quite right too. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from this seller after seeing so many fake dials on his 3017s in the past, and replacement pushers etc., however he always gets a good price.


----------



## Ham2

Starman66 said:


> Very rare white Cyrillic STRELA / POLJOT1950s chronograph USSR wristwatch ! | eBay
> This seller has sold several "Strela" 3017s with fake dials in the past, one among several giveaways being the badly printed КИРОВА where the И & Р touch each other. Some are blindingly obvious, some not so much if you haven't seen the real thing before. This example is much better, but I'm still very suspicious about the rough looking surface of the dial. I have had several genuine Strela 3017s in the past, and I'm sure the surface of the dials have been nice and smooth, not cardboard looking like this. Am I seeing things, or is this a better printed fake? The numbers and batons don't seem quite right too. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from this seller after seeing so many fake dials on his 3017s in the past, and replacement pushers etc., however he always gets a good price.


I have to agree with you on many of this seller's Strelas. They always seem to be a bit off, one way or another (though I wish I knew where he got his supply of authentic or very authentic looking hands). That dial does look "grainy" and too "clean" (and white) when you compare it to its mix of dulled and polished markers (well, compared to some of mine below) - I would guess the dial has, somehow, been restored (wouldn't want to say fake without more evidence). Overall, especially in conjunction with the shiny new looking hands, I wouldn't say that this Strela is completely authentic, but is at best restored - the case looks legit and the movement number and rounded lug case do "match" the dial style. I too have chosen not to buy from this seller because there are just too many questions raised about his never-ending supply of Strelas.


----------



## art1118

This has to be the Franken of the Year. eBay Item No. 170976870198 *1960' SLAVA Men's SILVER 27Jwl Automatic U.S.S.R. Limited Edition Calendar Watch. 100% AUTHENTIC This watch is in Great PRE-OWNED condition Was Collector's Item PLEASE REFER TO THE PICTURES This Rare and Handsome SLAVA has Silver-tone Case. Beautiful Dial features Silver -tone hour Markers Movement: 27Jwl AutomaticWatch has RARE SEE-TRU BACK*

Well, the photo of the back was misleading, so I took a chance bid, and won it. When it arrived, I was a bit surprised to find out that the "RARE SEE-TRU BACK" was a plastic watch crystal!!! I informed seller that the watch is NOT AS DESCRIBED. No way near! There is no indication anywhere that it is a Limited Edition watch. It is NOT 100% Authentic. It is not in Great PRE-OWNED condition. The ring seal and case back are missing. Someone replaced the case back with a scratched up watch crystal. This is certainly not a RARE SEE-TRU BACK. Needless to say, I returned this watch for a refund. :rodekaart o|


----------



## billbrasky

Yeah, I was looking at that Strela yesterday. Looks great from a distance, but the rough texture of the dial and the condition of the markers compared to the hands/dial threw me off immediately.

Hasn't stopped people from bidding on it though. 20 bids already and it should get him a good price.


----------



## Lampoc

art1118 said:


> This has to be the Franken of the Year. eBay Item No. 170976870198 *1960' SLAVA Men's SILVER 27Jwl Automatic U.S.S.R. Limited Edition Calendar Watch. 100% AUTHENTIC This watch is in Great PRE-OWNED condition Was Collector's Item PLEASE REFER TO THE PICTURES This Rare and Handsome SLAVA has Silver-tone Case. Beautiful Dial features Silver -tone hour Markers Movement: 27Jwl AutomaticWatch has RARE SEE-TRU BACK*
> 
> Well, the photo of the back was misleading, so I took a chance bid, and won it. When it arrived, I was a bit surprised to find out that the "RARE SEE-TRU BACK" was a plastic watch crystal!!! I informed seller that the watch is NOT AS DESCRIBED. No way near! There is no indication anywhere that it is a Limited Edition watch. It is NOT 100% Authentic. It is not in Great PRE-OWNED condition. The ring seal and case back are missing. Someone replaced the case back with a scratched up watch crystal. This is certainly not a RARE SEE-TRU BACK. Needless to say, I returned this watch for a refund. :rodekaarto|


Sorry to hear you had a bad deal, but that case back is hilarious!


----------



## RobNJ

Just on sale:









Wow. I'd love to be told that I'm wrong, in the same way I'd like to be wrong about unicorns. I find the whole thing fetching, in a crazy, bolt-on-spoiler-on-a-Rolls Royce sort of fashion.

Serious question for those who know Raketas, though. Minus the hands, was there a Soviet era, wide date aperture Raketa to which this dial belonged?


----------



## wildpack

Yes, I've seen the dial, but not with those hands or case. The case I've seen looks like something you screw off the bezel with a pipe wrench.


----------



## Ham2

360585021694: one of a kind


----------



## tylehman

It would be hard to make sense of the calendar on this one. Basically a RAKETA Perpetual Calendar, but without a face that would allow you to make any sense of the outer dial.














I kind of like the strap though?


----------



## Ham2

Okay - not a Russian but....


----------



## GenkiSushi

Ham2 said:


> Okay - not a Russian but....


Oh man. An anti-tank watch!


----------



## 10 ATM

Seriously ...WTF ??










oh look, it's a "real" 2623


----------



## emoscambio

Ham2 said:


> Okay - not a Russian but....


The full "story" in this former thread : https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/brok...ns-dial-some-sickening-photograph-815902.html


----------



## sq100

I read positive stories about this seller on here, claiming pricy but the real deal b-)
Item 160976819063 seems a bit off though, would still cost you around $490,-
With my untrained eye I spot the following wrongs
- date on a tonneau amphibia
- 2214 movement whereas it should be a 2209
- wrong caseback for this type of case

Anything else?




























Looks like I'm not purchasing from him anytime soon. :rodekaart


----------



## Ham2

130858537366


----------



## storyteller

A tribute to the original first topic in this great thread

View attachment 988938


View attachment 988939


View attachment 988940


View attachment 988941


----------



## svorkoetter

How about this one,

View attachment 989101


from this auction: 100% New Awesome Heavy USSR Watch Slava 2414 26J Dual Date Tags Box Strap 727 | eBay

Claims it's 100% new and original. Right. :roll:

Methinks the dial might look better in a case with a rectangular or elliptical crystal.


----------



## phd

//Claims it's 100% new and original. Right. :roll://

Well, you can't argue with the 'original'.


----------



## billbrasky

Looks like a Slava "Monster" in a circular case.


----------



## billbrasky

Looks like a Slava "Monster" in a circular case.


----------



## 10 ATM

A whole range of Vosjot / Poltok watches coming up on the bay.

Vostok case, Poljot movement, homemade dials










Not too bad looking for a Frankens and the dials seem to have full lume

RUSSIAN PILOT AVIATOR B-UHR TYPE MILITARY WATCH WATERPROOF CASE EXCELLENT | eBay

some have already been shown on the previous page


----------



## Ratfacedgit

I'm no expert but.......come on?

RARE RAKETA Cardinal Copernic Unique Hands Moon 2609 Ha Made in USSR 19 Jewels | eBay


----------



## emoscambio

Bloodtkr said:


> I'm no expert but.......come on?
> 
> RARE RAKETA Cardinal Copernic Unique Hands Moon 2609 Ha Made in USSR 19 Jewels | eBay


It is billboarded as very único!
¡RARO!****MARVELLOUS****¡RARO!**** * ¡RARO!******MAGNIFICENT******¡RARO!**** * *CARDINAL - COPERNIC* 
*** VINTAGE ***
*RAKETA 2609.HA - MECHANICAL*
** MADE en USSR** *
COPERNIC UNIQUE HANDS MOON *


----------



## emoscambio

Bloodtkr said:


> I'm no expert but.......come on?
> 
> RARE RAKETA Cardinal Copernic Unique Hands Moon 2609 Ha Made in USSR 19 Jewels | eBay


Hey seriously, the dial says 19 Jewels, the 2609.HA sports 17 jewels. I would ask the seller whether the two _missing gems_, perhaps emeralds or diamonds are included in the price!
View attachment 997746
View attachment 997746


----------



## pyjujiop

10 ATM said:


> A whole range of Vosjot / Poltok watches coming up on the bay.
> 
> Vostok case, Poljot movement, homemade dials
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not too bad looking for a Frankens and the dials seem to have full lume
> 
> RUSSIAN PILOT AVIATOR B-UHR TYPE MILITARY WATCH WATERPROOF CASE EXCELLENT | eBay
> 
> some have already been shown on the previous page


Vostok should just print up a bunch of B-Uhr style dials themselves and sell that as another variety. They could sell it cheaper than what this guy wants for his bogus Vosjot.


----------



## emoscambio

121077275239!
View attachment 998937

(отдельная горная мотострелковая бригада)


----------



## Ratfacedgit

I'm calling this a franken because it's hideous.

RAKETA 24 Hours Vintage 1980 Men's Wristwatch Arctic | eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-RUSSIAN...ATOR-FOR-PILOTS-army-old-RAKETA-/200908829920


----------



## sq100

Bloodtkr said:


> I'm calling this a franken because it's hideous.
> 
> RAKETA 24 Hours Vintage 1980 Men's Wristwatch Arctic | eBay
> 
> Vtg Russian Military Watch 24 Hours Soviet Aviator for Pilots Army Old RAKETA | eBay


See a lot of wrongs go by from both sellers. The 2nd seller seems worse though with his shopped photo's (fiery lume glow).


----------



## Ratfacedgit

sq100 said:


> See a lot of wrongs go by from both sellers. The 2nd seller seems worse though with his shopped photo's (fiery lume glow).


And it sold for $75.99.


----------



## Ham2

A pretty looking franken "amphidirskie"


----------



## storyteller

A new version of Rodina dial is available on frankenmart, aka aukro.ua. Soon on ebay.


----------



## Timepiece Tenderfoot

*" It's a little tricky to read at times, and the face has a busy appearance, but it is unique"*

Yeah, I'd agree with that.


----------



## James Haury

*Re: No!*

Again with the sportsmanskie? Enough already.


----------



## fcafca

*Re: No!*

:think: :-d :rodekaart

For sale on German bay :


----------



## 10 ATM

*Re: No!*

OKEAH anyone? :roll::roll:










47 mm ...no mention or picture of movement

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KOMANDIRSKIE-Ocean-Navy-POLJOT-17-jewels-Clock-Wristwatch-w-Belt-/390591651278?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item5af1139dce


----------



## Chascomm

*Re: No!*

You mean that there really _wasn't[i/] a Soviet brand of watch called 'Gorby'? :-d_


----------



## AID

ВИМПЕЛ...? Really? Well, if you are going to fake a dial of the rare watch, at least spell the name KORREKTLY! ))


----------



## Perdendosi

You know, other than the gold hands, I kinda like this look. I wonder if there was some Soviet version of Dave Murphy making custom bezels, or some frankenmeister found another source to harvest from.


----------



## gekos

AID said:


> View attachment 1082617
> 
> 
> ВИМПЕЛ...? Really? Well, if you are going to fake a dial of the rare watch, at least spell the name KORREKTLY! ))


it is spelled correctly.


----------



## AID

gekos said:


> it is spelled correctly.


Then go ahead and purchase it, the price is very attractive  But just in case you'll have second thoughts, here is a correct dial


----------



## svorkoetter

Perdendosi said:


> I wonder if there was some Soviet version of Dave Murphy making custom bezels, or some frankenmeister found another source to harvest from.


To me, this looks like someone took a standard Vostok bezel, and milled a recess in it to accept an insert (perhaps a slightly modified insert, with the the inner diameter enlarged slightly).


----------



## sq100

It's a Slava bezel it seems. https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/week-end-roll-call-july-21-22-a-74901.html#post436035


----------



## emoscambio

AID said:


> View attachment 1082617
> 
> 
> ВИМПЕЛ...? Really? Well, if you are going to fake a dial of the rare watch, at least spell the name KORREKTLY! ))


This is simply spelled in... BULGARIAN!!!
Remember those similar Bulgarian Raketa (see below)? Those with the little rocket on it? Same maker! 







Also, some Vostok of the same kind exist


----------



## gekos

Truth. I am Bulgarian;-)
"Poljot": Полeт = Bulgarian; Полёт = Russian
Anyway on the watch dials is Полeт, maybe was simply cool for Russians.


----------



## RobNJ

I've bought some fine watches from the seller, so I don't want to generalize. But this one is, um, a bit questionable.

















Leaving aside the case, movement, and hands just for a moment, what is going on with the dial? It looks homemade, but it looks OLD homemade. Just paint on a red dial?


----------



## Perdendosi

sq100 said:


> It's a Slava bezel it seems. https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/week-end-roll-call-july-21-22-a-74901.html#post436035


Really interesting. It seems like a lot of work for a franken, unless those Slavas were interchangeable with a 470 cased Vostok.


----------



## emoscambio

RobNJ said:


> I've bought some fine watches from the seller, so I don't want to generalize. But this one is, um, a bit questionable.
> 
> View attachment 1083403
> 
> 
> View attachment 1083412
> 
> 
> Leaving aside the case, movement, and hands just for a moment, what is going on with the dial? It looks homemade, but it looks OLD homemade. Just paint on a red dial?


Printed with a carved potato.


----------



## OhDark30

Wrong dial, too - curved and without the sunburst, or indeed date
I like the potato idea, but I'm going to vote for spray paint and stencil

So correct parts = zero


----------



## Ham2

10 ATM said:


> OKEAH anyone? :roll::roll:
> 
> 47 mm ...no mention or picture of movement
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KOMANDIRSKIE-Ocean-Navy-POLJOT-17-jewels-Clock-Wristwatch-w-Belt-/390591651278?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item5af1139dce


That is just sad


----------



## vsls

Another poor Molnija "football"


----------



## skapig

I keep coming across this beauty on eBay. I believe they call it the "Okela"


----------



## DolleDolf

Ham2 said:


> That is just sad


rather!


----------



## DolleDolf

skapig said:


> I keep coming across this beauty on eBay. I believe they call it the "Okela"


Good for spare parts for both an okeah and a strela i guess .....


----------



## Timepiece Tenderfoot

Hey! Nice Cornavin in Raketa UFO case








UH OH! Waste of a nice old movement :-(


----------



## RobNJ

Timepiece Tenderfoot said:


> View attachment 1085667
> 
> Hey! Nice Cornavin in Raketa UFO case
> 
> View attachment 1085670
> 
> UH OH! Waste of a nice old movement :-(


I think I saw this one passing by, and had the same initial first reaction - nice dial. And I was going to say something like, "but maybe swap in a Raketa 2609, add a second hand (because at F10, we care about accuracy), and you're in business." But then I noticed that the hour/minute ring also seems to be cut out at 3 for a date or day/date movement, while the dial isn't. In other words, a hopeless case.


----------



## sq100

Another Raketa.
Raketa 24h - Russische Armbanduhr | eBay


----------



## OCDood

This guys work was featured earlier in the thread but I didn't see this example posted:


----------



## gekos

I like the discreet dial beneath black one.
What is its purpose I wonder, nanoseconds?:think:


----------



## GuessWho

OCDood said:


> This guys work was featured earlier in the thread but I didn't see this example posted:


That is probably the worst one from him I have seen, just wow


----------



## OCDood

But it's only $229.99US. ;-)


----------



## GuessWho

What is the item #? I wonder if we can see his smug face in the reflections again


----------



## OCDood

I took a screenshot of it a few days ago and it's not listed now. He does have a photo on his eBay page though, presumably of himself.

He had it listed as "1948 Soviet USSR Red Army Komandirskie Navy Stalin Big Watch Ex!"


----------



## Ham2

OCDood said:


> I took a screenshot of it a few days ago and it's not listed now. He does have a photo on his eBay page though, presumably of himself.
> 
> He had it listed as "1948 Soviet USSR Red Army Komandirskie Navy Stalin Big Watch Ex!"


His tie resembles his watches ;o


----------



## sq100

That is a nice dial...
USSR RUSSIAN MEN


----------



## Ham2

A one of a kind Rodina (Rodinirskie). - the caseback is also suspect (Poljot Amphibian?)


----------



## svorkoetter

GuessWho said:


> What is the item #? I wonder if we can see his smug face in the reflections again


The item # was 171039296272. The watch actually sold! For $229.99! Who would buy such a thing?

Jeez, if I wasn't such an honest guy, I could make a killing on eBay selling bogus watches that look way more believable than that one.


----------



## OCDood

I'm bidding on a couple pocket watch mechanisms that won't have a case and can only hope to be half as ingenious as they are at coming up with something to house them if I win. :-d


----------



## GuessWho

svorkoetter said:


> The item # was 171039296272. The watch actually sold! For $229.99! Who would buy such a thing?
> 
> Jeez, if I wasn't such an honest guy, I could make a killing on eBay selling bogus watches that look way more believable than that one.


I can't believe that sold for that price! No wonder there are so many frankenmasters out there


----------



## Lampoc

USSR RUSSIAN MEN


----------



## sq100

Lampoc said:


> USSR RUSSIAN MEN


Haha, that's one way to put a normal movement in a 2-o'clock crown casing.


----------



## OCDood

sq100 said:


> Haha, that's one way to put a normal movement in a 2-o'clock crown casing.


Since the subject has been brought up, are there Kirovskie Zlatoust watches in that 2 O'clock configuration? I saw this one the other day while looking for pocket watches and was wondering if it was legit or not:










I didn't want to post the link to the active sale but can if need be. It has a manufactures date of 1957 on the movement.


----------



## pyjujiop

svorkoetter said:


> The item # was 171039296272. The watch actually sold! For $229.99! Who would buy such a thing?


Some Russian watchmaker with a few rubles to spare, to save the world and the Russian watch industry from such an abomination.


----------



## koutouzoff

Very sad indeed...


----------



## Mister Mike

There's a lot going on with this watch...


----------



## Perdendosi

Actually advertised as a perpetual calendar....


----------



## billbrasky

OCDood said:


> Since the subject has been brought up, are there Kirovskie Zlatoust watches in that 2 O'clock configuration? I saw this one the other day while looking for pocket watches and was wondering if it was legit or not:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to post the link to the active sale but can if need be. It has a manufactures date of 1957 on the movement.


No, definitely not legit. That dial was in pocketwatches only. Speaking of the dial I think that one is a reprint as well. It looks too fresh and the letters of the logo seem off, like it's too tight.


----------



## Ham2

I haven't seen this Sturmanskie variation before.... (Sellers pictures)


----------



## koutouzoff

Maybe it's a prototype?


----------



## putra3007

koutouzoff said:


> Maybe it's a prototype?


or a hybrid..haaa


----------



## OCDood

It's one of those "Rare Russian military watch RAKETA AVIATOR STURMANSKIE" I've been hearing about...

RARE Russian Military Watch RAKETA Aviator Sturmanskie 15 Jewels 209 | eBay


----------



## schnurrp

OCDood said:


> It's one of those "Rare Russian military watch RAKETA AVIATOR STURMANSKIE" I've been hearing about...
> 
> RARE Russian Military Watch RAKETA Aviator Sturmanskie 15 Jewels 209 | eBay


I hate to say it but I think that is one of the classiest fake Laco-type watches I've seen and I considered making an offer on it but I never thought it would go so low. The movement is the venerable Raketa 19 jewel 2609 and it appears to be in a Raketa case with a repainted or new dial and totally new hands. Only 34mm, though.

Not what I would consider a "franken" which for me is a watch made up of existing parts from other watches.

The real thing on sale now for $369:


----------



## OhDark30

I got one of the above. Knowingly. 
I figured it was a nice way to get a wearable sized B-type flieger, and also to see if I got on with the dial. 
Keeps good time, new lumed hands and markers, solid Raketa movement and case














In the end I *didn't* get on with the dial, but hadn't had to pay Laco prices to find out (as schurrp says)
And I'm going to sell it as a project watch. I figure the only thing my original seller did wrong was his spurious claims (Laco Zim WW2 or some such nonsense). It's a great affordable B-uhr, which is a watch style from a military requirement, not a manufacturer's original design.


----------



## OCDood

I saw a few artfully done miniature oil paintings on the faces of Kirovskie watches yesterday that I wouldn't have minded having. One of a military tank on a cliff overlooking a bay that had a boat sailing on it, and that on a watch only about 35mm if that. b-)


----------



## James Haury

Again with the Sportsmanskie?


----------



## NoLeftTurn

This guy has some howlers, but this one stood out the most!

VOSTOK WOSTOK Amphibian KOMANDIRSKIE Navy Military Officer Wristwatch 1980s | eBay


----------



## gekos

schnurrp said:


> I hate to say it but I think that is one of the classiest fake Laco-type watches I've seen and I considered making an offer on it but I never thought it would go so low. The movement is the venerable Raketa 19 jewel 2609 and it appears to be in a Raketa case with a repainted or new dial and totally new hands. Only 34mm, though.
> 
> Not what I would consider a "franken" which for me is a watch made up of existing parts from other watches.
> 
> The real thing on sale now for $369:


To complete the picture here is my:
1939 MILITARY SOVIET USSR RUSSIA LACO KOMANDIRSKIE STALIN WATCH RARE !
I know is original because I made it!


----------



## OCDood

Here's an easy one, and pretty funny too. It has the cyclops but no date function, it just magnifies the hour marker under it.


----------



## svorkoetter

That's so you can know when it's exactly 3 o'clock.


----------



## GuessWho

OCDood said:


> Here's an easy one, and pretty funny too. It has the cyclops but no date function, it just magnifies the hour marker under it.


Did they put a fake jewel in the bezel at 12 o'clock as well? Also the case has some weird coating... Looks like this guy spent a lot of time actually


----------



## GuessWho

Almost bought a Luch from this seller, looked at other items, nothing but frankens!














C'mon! It says Komandirskie on the (fake) dial and Amphibia on the back!


----------



## OCDood

GuessWho said:


> C'mon! It says Komandirskie on the (fake) dial and Amphibia on the back!


So does mine, I was wondering why.


----------



## RobNJ

This is both rather obviously printed and trying to make some sort of complicated philosophical statement. ("Time fades away...whoa!") It should come with its own manifesto.


----------



## Mister Mike

OCDood said:


> So does mine, I was wondering why.


Yours looks 100% correct to me. Some Amphibians are supposed to have Komandirskie dials (see a new example below). Yours has the correct black hands to complement the white dial, along with the right "lume pip" bezel for the vintage -- so you're fine. In contrast, the one GuessWho posted has a bad copy of your correct dial, and they've compensated for the wrong chrome hands by filling the lume area with black paint!


----------



## Lampoc

How to ruin a Komandirskie dial:


----------



## Mister Mike

Looks like they're at it again in China...


----------



## heimdalg

A lot of work here.


----------



## putra3007

Wow...24h but both odd numbers...

Raketa 24 hours Antarctic, submarine, military watches, made in USSR | eBay


----------



## OCDood

I can't say without a doubt it's not a franken, but here's another one exactly like it that's supposed to be NOS. They show it with box and papers, not that it means anything:


----------



## putra3007

OCDood said:


> I can't say without a doubt it's not a franken, but here's another one exactly like it that's supposed to be NOS. They show it with box and papers, not that it means anything:


There's certainly a few NOS on ebay. Thought it should be like this... anyone can enlighten?


----------



## ill-phill

One of the stupidest things I have seen!








No 181161918372 o|o|


----------



## svorkoetter

Wrong alarm dial for this case.


----------



## James Haury

*Re: No!*

http://www.startrek.com/database_article/cause-and-effect-:roll:I was notified about this again today.Enough of the sportsmanskie already.Or am I caught in a causality loop?:think:


----------



## Perdendosi

ill-phill said:


> One of the stupidest things I have seen!
> View attachment 1129390
> 
> 
> No 181161918372 o|o|


This is franken of the year isn't it? It seems like this shows up every month or so in this thread.


----------



## OCDood

It gets my vote. :-!


----------



## svorkoetter

Perdendosi said:


> This is franken of the year isn't it? It seems like this shows up every month or so in this thread.


I've decided to ask some questions, starting with, "What is the purpose of the underlying dial that goes from 0 to 100?". :-d


----------



## Perdendosi

svorkoetter said:


> I've decided to ask some questions, starting with, "What is the purpose of the underlying dial that goes from 0 to 100?". :-d


Questions to the seller? I'd love to hear the answer. 
Here's what I would say:
It's a scale to let you know what percentage of the hour is over. You know, of course that the soviet military used a 100 scale for their military time operations-- 1:30 p.m. was 1375!
(Yeah, just joking.)


----------



## sq100

Making up answers on the spot, best hobby ever! As an IT guy i get to do that all the time and the good part is I seem to get away with it too :-d


----------



## svorkoetter

svorkoetter said:


> I've decided to ask some questions, starting with, "What is the purpose of the underlying dial that goes from 0 to 100?". :-d


Got an "answer":

Thank you for your email.
I think that this is a special Soviet naval dial!
Best Regards,
Igor
​
I wonder how I should reply?


----------



## storyteller

The case looks like a converted Slava stopwatch, and if the dial comes from an extremely rare Slava 1/100, it will be a real shame. But it really looks like an 1/100.


----------



## GuessWho

Look guys! The very rare "UFO Aviator"


----------



## svorkoetter

GuessWho said:


> Look guys! The very rare "UFO Aviator"


I was going to say what a waste of a nice dial, but the dial is obviously a home made one. The arrow above the 12 doesn't even line up with the 12 o'clock hour index.


----------



## bryan123456

*Face markings*








Komandirskie
Antimagnetic (Russian)
Vostok 'B' Logo
Made in CCCP (Russian)

Markings every 5 minutes from 5 to 60 (numerics) with minute/second marks in intervals
Lume dots every 5 minutes
Date window at 3 o'clock

Graphics: Red Star & Black Submarine on white with a blue graduated fade in around the outside of the dial

*Case back markings*

Amphibian
Waterproof 200m
2209
Shockproof balance
(all in English)

*Movement*

2214 with Boctok logo

*Case*







1190 / 119??
With 18mm lugs

*Bezel*

Komandirskie

*The finishing touch*

The watch was supplied on an unbranded 18mm stainless steel bracelet.

I bought a 22mm strap from Cousinsuk.com to use with the watch. This was deliberate as I wanted the extra width outside the case - for aesthetic purposes - and planned to cut the width to achieve this. I duly did this. When I had finished I realised that the strap I had been sent was something of a Franken too - the buckle side was 22mm with white contrast stitching, the other side 24mm with matching brown thread. It works - just - and sets the watch off perfectly.









*What's it like?*

It's been extremely well done - the dial fits perfectly and is beautifully finished and lumed. The watch works well and keeps good time. I actually (call me a sado) like the look. Sold in innocence on EBay and bought for a whisker under £25 inc P&P.

*Why?*

One has to ask 'Why'?


----------



## OCDood

bryan123456 said:


> *Why?*
> 
> One has to ask 'Why'?


Ok, why do you think it's a franken?

I could be wrong, but except for the date window and different hour hand it looks exactly like my Amphibia. Mine doesn't have any text on the case back in English though:



And Mister Mike posted a picture of a newer one with a date window 2 pages back:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/franken-week-88091-76.html


----------



## bryan123456

OCDood said:


> Ok, why do you think it's a franken?
> 
> I could be wrong, but except for the date window and different hour hand it looks exactly like my Amphibia. Mine doesn't have any text on the case back in English though:
> 
> 
> 
> And Mister Mike posted a picture of a newer one with a date window 2 pages back:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/franken-week-88091-76.html


My knowledge is limited and if it's not a Frankenwatch - I'd be pleased. Is the dial text commensurate with the case? And is it common for the case back to contain a different movement number to that of the actual movement itself? I hope to be enlightened. Did the factory produce 'mix & match' models at times? My 'love affair with Vostoks is a new one and I know I have a lot to learn


----------



## OCDood

I'm in no way an expert, but maybe the case back was changed?

Someone else would be better suited than myself to give the final word on it.


----------



## Ham2

I believe that dial (and movement) were not originally used in that case.


----------



## GuessWho

Not sure if franken...














Looks like it has a 2416B at least


----------



## svorkoetter

*"A watch mechanical and completely original"
*








Oh, my eyes!


----------



## polmax3133

svorkoetter said:


> *"A watch mechanical and completely original"
> *
> Oh, my eyes!


Nice "completely original" glue oozing out from under the indices... :-d


----------



## nht

GuessWho said:


> Not sure if franken...
> View attachment 1139178
> 
> View attachment 1139179
> 
> Looks like it has a 2416B at least


*F*aketa dial, Vostok 2416 movement modified to 24h (or maybe a 2431), named Poljot (Полет) and with a Zlatoust style case...

It's at least a very, very original hybrid ! :-d


----------



## GuessWho

nht said:


> *F*aketa dial, Vostok 2416 movement modified to 24h (or maybe a 2431), named Poljot (Полет) and with a Zlatoust style case...
> 
> It's at least a very, very original hybrid ! :-d


Ahh yes, probably a 2431 as it is supposed to be 24 hours.

I should have recognized that "Raketa" dial too


----------



## 104RS

What about this one, is this legit?


----------



## Ham2

104RS said:


> What about this one, is this legit?


I believe that one is legit


----------



## 104RS

Ham2 said:


> I believe that one is legit


Thank you.


----------



## sebastienb

Nice one, one face Vostok, one face Poljot and unknown case : eBay | POLJOT SOVIET WATCH


----------



## emoscambio

sebastienb said:


> Nice one, one face Vostok, one face Poljot and unknown case : eBay | POLJOT SOVIET WATCH


The Vostok 3133 chrono of the 90's were all made at Poljot, some are even in official Poljot catalogues. This is just a Poljot-made 3133 with its Poljot-made dial that have been transplanted into another Poljot case, than its original Poljot-made case "à la Vostok", which were poorly chromed. This one is a creative Poljot-Poljot recasing, I would say, not a mix of brands.


----------



## heimdalg

A new Casio was born


----------



## emoscambio

heimdalg said:


> A new Casio was born


The jewels are actually made of extremely rare red quartz stone, hence the name on the dial. C.A.S.I.O. reads Customized Antique Soviet Interesting Object.


----------



## 104RS

Can anyone tell me some more about the movement, the watch and the overall authenticity of this piece?
Is this a franken or a real, legit example?

RARE Russian USSR Watch Sturmanskie 15 Jewels 286 | eBay


----------



## svorkoetter

104RS said:


> Can anyone tell me some more about the movement, the watch and the overall authenticity of this piece?
> Is this a franken or a real, legit example?
> 
> RARE Russian USSR Watch Sturmanskie 15 Jewels 286 | eBay


My guess would be franken, based on the obvious copy-and-paste error (and the overall inkjet look):


----------



## heimdalg

104RS said:


> Can anyone tell me some more about the movement, the watch and the overall authenticity of this piece?
> Is this a franken or a real, legit example?
> 
> RARE Russian USSR Watch Sturmanskie 15 Jewels 286 | eBay


A 100% genuine franken with modern ZIM/Pobeda movement inside, called Sturmanskie. Though a retun to golden times wen original Sturmanskie had a kind of Pobeda movement


----------



## medinfoto

Can anyone tell me if this is a genuine watch or some frankenmonster? And what movement might be in it?


----------



## heimdalg

In my opinion is genuine. Movement 2414.


----------



## medinfoto

heimdalg said:


> In my opinion is genuine. Movement 2414.


 Thanks! I purchased it earlier today and it ought to arrive in a week or two. The seller seemed good (not a dedicated watch seller, this was supposedly from an estate) so figured it was worth a shot at 30 EUR.... I can post a picture of the movement once I get it, would be interesting to hear some feedback on it.


----------



## svorkoetter

svorkoetter said:


> My guess would be franken, based on the obvious copy-and-paste error (and the overall inkjet look)


Just for fun, I wrote to the seller, asking:

_Why does "23" appear twice on the dial?
_
She responded:

_Hello. In this model of a watch for pilots plant the manufacturer printed such figures. Probably factory mistake because of which a watch wasn't started in mass production. Watch is unique, they weren't on bulk selling. Yours faithfully Elena_


----------



## Chubstain

Hahaha svorkoetter I love how you ask sellers about their franken pieces


----------



## svorkoetter

Chubstain said:


> Hahaha svorkoetter I love how you ask sellers about their franken pieces


The answers are always so amusing.


----------



## sebastienb

emoscambio said:


> The Vostok 3133 chrono of the 90's were all made at Poljot, some are even in official Poljot catalogues. This is just a Poljot-made 3133 with its Poljot-made dial that have been transplanted into another Poljot case, than its original Poljot-made case "à la Vostok", which were poorly chromed. This one is a creative Poljot-Poljot recasing, I would say, not a mix of brands.


Intersting, thanks


----------



## emoscambio

putra3007 said:


> There's certainly a few NOS on ebay. Thought it should be like this... anyone can enlighten?


The first one is a genuine CCCP, while the second one is a CAD Rendering displayed on the last Raketa catalogue, before New Raketa was reborn from its ashes into some fashionista brand of quartz and overpriced... oh well!


----------



## emoscambio

GuessWho said:


> Not sure if franken...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it has a 2416B at least


Not a franken, but a Sputnik branded watch of the official catalogue.


----------



## Ham2

Creative.....


----------



## drbobguy

Just saw this one:


----------



## bryan123456

bryan123456 said:


> My knowledge is limited and if it's not a Frankenwatch - I'd be pleased. Is the dial text commensurate with the case? And is it common for the case back to contain a different movement number to that of the actual movement itself? I hope to be enlightened. Did the factory produce 'mix & match' models at times? My 'love affair with Vostoks is a new one and I know I have a lot to learn


Just out of interest - I found this on EBay:

Very RARE Military Watch Commander 2214 AMPHIBIAN WATCH USSR NAVY DIVER 200M | eBay

So maybe a common 'Franken' or not so common production model?


----------



## WelshWatchNut

medinfoto said:


> Can anyone tell me if this is a genuine watch or some frankenmonster? And what movement might be in it?
> 
> View attachment 1157939


I'm doubtful on this one tbh as I reckon I can see the dial notch at 3 and a gap between dial and casing too...


----------



## RobNJ

Klose, but not klose enough.


----------



## emoscambio

RobNJ said:


> View attachment 1164673
> 
> 
> Klose, but not klose enough.


PAKETKA is a nick for PAKETKA, meaning little rocket


----------



## 104RS

Does anyone know some more about this watch? Wether this is a Franken, and regarding what it's age might be?


----------



## RobNJ

Probably not a franken, because a) "propaganda"-themed ZIMs (like yours, or "Glasnost," or "Perestroika") are not uncommon, and b) there are, in general, bigger fish to franken than late-model ZIM Pobedas. Likely 1980s, just from stylistic similarities to the others offering up Gorbachev-era keywords.


----------



## turkoftheplains

Is this a franken? The lack of cyrilic on the dial (particularly USSR for CCCP) makes me nervous, and I haven't been able to find anything about a Raketa caliber 25095 anywhere...


----------



## Ham2

turkoftheplains said:


> Is this a franken? The lack of cyrilic on the dial (particularly USSR for CCCP) makes me nervous, and I haven't been able to find anything about a Raketa caliber 25095 anywhere...


I think the angle of the picture is the issue. The movement appears to be stamped 2609Б - a baltika. It looks original to me - the latin script suggests it was likely for export.


----------



## RobNJ

turkoftheplains said:


> Is this a franken? The lack of cyrilic on the dial (particularly USSR for CCCP) makes me nervous, and I haven't been able to find anything about a Raketa caliber 25095 anywhere...
> 
> View attachment 1167105
> View attachment 1167106


It is the lack of a second hand I would worry about - that watch should have one.


----------



## medinfoto

medinfoto said:


> Can anyone tell me if this is a genuine watch or some frankenmonster? And what movement might be in it?
> 
> View attachment 1157939


Well, it arrived and with a loose crystal at that. Seller immediately issued a 100% refund and told me to keep the watch. Mechanically it seems sound and it keeps time well, and the dial is gorgeous so I am pretty pleased with this "freebie". However, I would like to put it back together properly. Someone pointed out the gap around the dial; taking that and the loose crystal into account I am wondering if there is a ring/seal of some sort missing. If so, any idea where I could source one? I am purchasing a crystal lift for some other projects so will have one of those available soon to help replace the crystal. It looks to be correct size and all, but was pushed in at an angle and came loose when I poked at it, so guessing someone did a quick shoddy job.

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## bryan123456

medinfoto said:


> Well, it arrived and with a loose crystal at that. Seller immediately issued a 100% refund and told me to keep the watch. Mechanically it seems sound and it keeps time well, and the dial is gorgeous so I am pretty pleased with this "freebie". However, I would like to put it back together properly. Someone pointed out the gap around the dial; taking that and the loose crystal into account I am wondering if there is a ring/seal of some sort missing. If so, any idea where I could source one? I am purchasing a crystal lift for some other projects so will have one of those available soon to help replace the crystal. It looks to be correct size and all, but was pushed in at an angle and came loose when I poked at it, so guessing someone did a quick shoddy job.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help!


Looks legit - from the one pic. The case is Komandirskie as is the dial. A loose crystal? You mean the watch glass and not just a loose bezel? can we see a pic of the back as well please? Does t crown have a raised centre?


----------



## medinfoto

bryan123456 said:


> Looks legit - from the one pic. The case is Komandirskie as is the dial. A loose crystal? You mean the watch glass and not just a loose bezel? can we see a pic of the back as well please? Does t crown have a raised centre?


Yeah, the glass itself sat at an angle and when I poked at it it popped loose entirely. I could get it pressed in but if there is a missing ring inside I'd like to acquire that first.

The crown has a raised (rounded) center.

I bought it off an estate reseller who said the watch was part of someone's collection of russian watches so that would lead me to believe it's the real deal, but I am far from an expert on these!

Will post a pic of the back in a bit.


----------



## medinfoto




----------



## bryan123456

medinfoto said:


>


That looks legit too. Is the case brass coloured or is it just the light? Nice watch. There are lots of people who are much more proficient than me who may offer you advice on how to sort the problem - but here are a couple of older threads. https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/komandirskie-crystal-help-798328.html https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/replacing-komandirskie-crystal-590752.html


----------



## emoscambio

Please post your questions to the forum community, when you suspect something wrong on a watch or just want to be sure, to another thread:

Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?

You will surely receive a quick answer from the many experts in different technical fields and different brands.

Do not post these questions in the "Franken of the week" thread that is a showcase reserved for undisputably frankened timepieces.


----------



## heimdalg

Very rare....


----------



## Skv

-edit-


----------



## OCDood

While checking out the available 24 hour watches I happened upon this one:










A variation of the actual Russian Troops Airborne Flag:


----------



## RobNJ

I'm not sure, though, OCDood, if that airborne/tank 24hr Raketa is exactly franken. In the Levenberg book, #353 and the neighborhood, there is both that particular design on another Raketa and similar designs on 24hr, perpetual calendar, and other models - all dating from around 1992 or so. There was a discussion here noting that that airborne design is overpainted, but whether overpainted by the factory itself or by a secondary modder/reseller (doing so on a large scale) is, I think, a question.

There is a lot of weird stuff in Levenberg, but I read that, at least in part, as a reflection of the USSR-dissolution moment and its general economic chaos. I get the sense that the factories were desperate to sell watches and thought they could do so in part to a new Western (maybe not only Western) market for post-Soviet kitsch and militaria. So Raketa and Slava start producing (often on the fly) watches that are a bit "Vostok wannabe," like this, along with hammer-and-sickle watches that, owl of Minerva and all that, were less prevalent during the actual Soviet era...and Vostok itself adds in things like the "KGB" watch (for a Western market) that may not exactly have stirred up warm memories in everyone.

Anyway, I'd certainly call this one "weird," maybe "a historical artifact," possibly "tacky" (to each his own), maybe even "gray"...but maybe "factory gray." I'm not sure I would put it in the class of newer Raketa 24hrs with fantasy dials, and certainly not in the same class as a wholly faked or repro Gagarin or something like that. Just my reading of the history; maybe someone knows better.


----------



## OCDood

I've got this one being shipped to me now that is of the same basic design, with The Hamann group logo:


















I researched them and they're a logistics company, in the business of transportation and shipping, based in Germany with offices throughout Eurasia:










They merged with the INTERSPE Group in 1997, so the lack of any mention of it on the Hamann group logo dates the watch to before that, according to the seller in the mid to early 1990's. It was most likely commissioned by them directly from Raketa, which I thought went toward proving it was not a franken, as you alluded to them taking in orders to keep afloat.

tylehman has this one, which is slightly different from the other one, but still running strong as he reports, so I figured at least the dials couldn't all be authentic:










I've seen two different tank designs on perpetual calender watches as well.


----------



## OCDood

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this didn't leave the Raketa factory like this:










They state it's in a non-working condition. They've also got a Raketa with a franken case back that says Swiss made on it.


----------



## Arizone

OCDood said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and say this didn't leave the Raketa factory like this:
> 
> They state it's in a non-working condition. They've also got a Raketa with a franken case back that says Swiss made on it.


Actually, a few of these are listed on USSRTime.com, #144-147.


----------



## OCDood

Hmmm...I'd have thought that would have been bad for ones well-being.


----------



## James Haury

Da Die Sportsmanski. Comrade get a new watch.


----------



## emoscambio

BigZero meets RedTwelve meets Komandirskie meets Tank
View attachment 1187213


View attachment 1187214


View attachment 1187215


Remarkably waterproof.


----------



## emoscambio

These ones deserved a thread:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/brand-new-franken-904167.html


----------



## OhDark30

emoscambio said:


> BigZero meets RedTwelve meets Komandirskie meets Tank
> View attachment 1187213
> 
> 
> View attachment 1187214
> 
> 
> View attachment 1187215


It's a greatest hits compilation!


----------



## 104RS

I have some doubt about this watch, what do you guys think?


----------



## emoscambio

104RS said:


> I have some doubt about this watch, what do you guys think?


Please post this in the Q&A thread! This one is for showing certain franken...


----------



## watch22

104RS said:


> I have some doubt about this watch, what do you guys think?


I doubt the green alligator strap is a good idea.


----------



## emoscambio

watch22 said:


> I doubt the green alligator strap is a good idea.


Well, it depends on the colour of your tie, I'd say...














See?


----------



## zanderanski

I present to you the vostok sturmanskie. Super rare watch for sale for the low low price of $70.00

Rare Ussr Russian Watch Aviator Sturmanskie 1 MCHZ 17 Jewels 533 | eBay


----------



## bryan123456

zanderanski said:


> I present to you the vostok sturmanskie. Super rare watch for sale for the low low price of $70.00
> 
> Rare Ussr Russian Watch Aviator Sturmanskie 1 MCHZ 17 Jewels 533 | eBay


I looked, I laughed. That's got to be one of the most flagrant EBay Frankens ever!


----------



## c0sin

zanderanski said:


> I present to you the vostok sturmanskie. Super rare watch for sale for the low low price of $70.00
> 
> Rare Ussr Russian Watch Aviator Sturmanskie 1 MCHZ 17 Jewels 533 | eBay


"SEVENTEEN 17 JEWELS" my left foot ...


----------



## Mecano

I wonder who buys all this junk...they must have buyers otherwise this umm... "business" of building little Frankenstein monsters in their basements would have stopped.It never seize to amaze me how many people with more money than brains are out there.


----------



## OCDood

As long as this guys work is being discussed, check out the "Rare Collection Watch Molnia Regulateur Molnija":


















And what, you ask, could that thingy on the right possibly be doing on a 3602 movement? It looks like it's been stuck on with a nail! Well, I'm glad you asked:



> The regulator is watch in which hour, minute and second arrows are located separately from each other and their indications are read out on different dials. In principle once the whole watch were such, then on their image and similarity dials of an astronomical clock and sea chronometers were arranged. Through to separate indication the slow hour hand didn't block the second hand which indications were so important to astronomers and navigators. And on watch manufactories on them established and regulated a new watch. Therefore they also are called as regulators. Well and now it simply very fashionable watches with intriguing nonconventional arrangement of arrow


Now in all fairness, there has been some work done to it, so maybe he slipped in a gear or two to make it do what he said:










And all for the low, low price of $149.99 US plus $15 shipping! How can you afford not to buy it!


----------



## RobNJ

I'm feeling a little...irregulateur. (Sorry!)


----------



## Mecano

OCDood said:


> As long as this guys work is being discussed, check out the "Rare Collection Watch Molnia Regulateur Molnija":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what, you ask, could that thingy on the right possibly be doing on a 3602 movement? It looks like it's been stuck on with a nail! Well, I'm glad you asked:
> 
> Now in all fairness, there has been some work done to it, so maybe he slipped in a gear or two to make it do what he said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And all for the low, low price of $149.99 US plus $15 shipping! How can you afford not to buy it!


 this is so ludicrous i can't even laugh.Esp the black version.They are on this site too. http://watchesdb.com/inf/37069-rare_collection_watch_molnia_regulateur_molnija_562.html


----------



## Mecano

I think words fail here o| :rodekaart


----------



## OCDood

Mecano said:


> this is so ludicrous i can't even laugh.Esp the black version.They are on this site too. Rare Collection Watch Molnia Regulateur Molnija 562


That's too much... there is obviously some collusion going on somewhere.

That one and the one I pictured both had something done underneath the screw by the crown, next to the 2 in this normal movement shot:


















I'd be interested in knowing if the watch actually worked like they say it would. If there were gears added or if that's just something to hold the stud in place for the 3rd hand on the right. Not curious enough to waste money buying one though.

This kind of thing makes it bad on people who aren't in the know. I'd like to buy a Sturmanskie at some point but I'd have to do a lot more studying before I'd take a change buying an "original".


----------



## JRMTactical

An EVER GLORIOUS Amphibidirskie with matching GOLD/TiN crown! The description states it was "serviced" by a "master watchmaker".....I suspect it was slightly more than "serviced".


----------



## bryan123456

Mecano said:


> I think words fail here o| :rodekaart


I have one. Same dial same bezel same case: I was wondering if like mine, your case back quotes a movement code for a different watch?


----------



## zanderanski

Service by a master watch maker. Armed with a bottle of vodka and a blue and red sharpie with some white out!

SALE Soviet watch Russian watch Men watch door SovietWatches


----------



## Mecano

bryan123456 said:


> I have one. Same dial same bezel same case: I was wondering if like mine, your case back quotes a movement code for a different watch?


This is not mine-just a pic i had saved from an ebay auction.



zanderanski said:


> Service by a master watch maker. Armed with a bottle of vodka and a blue and red sharpie with some white out!
> 
> SALE Soviet watch Russian watch Men watch door SovietWatches


The blue you see is unobtainium plating*.* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium


----------



## RobNJ

Just what I need - a (tank) driving watch!


----------



## zanderanski

^^^^^

Go home watch. Your drunk!


----------



## stadiou

Something's badly out of line there


----------



## emoscambio

RobNJ said:


> Just what I need - a (tank) driving watch!


It is the rare skinny-aviator-gal thigh-watch...


----------



## OhDark30

We skinny-aviator-gals are a growing market, you know ;-)


----------



## emoscambio

SELTENE RUSSISCHE HERRENUHR UND SIE FUNKTIONIERT NOCH ("Rare Russian Gents Watch and it still works". "Rare", as opposed to "well done")


----------



## putra3007

Listed as:*Soviet original Poljot KOMANDIRSKIE / Shturmanskie (Avia) issue watch, 47mm / 1.85" diameter, 17 jewels, 22mm belt (included).

KOMANDIRSKIE "Shturmanskie - Avia" POLJOT 17-jewels Clock / Wristwatch w/ Belt | eBay









*


----------



## JRMTactical

emoscambio said:


> SELTENE RUSSISCHE HERRENUHR UND SIE FUNKTIONIERT NOCH ("Rare Russian Gents Watch and it still works". "Rare", as opposed to "well done")
> 
> View attachment 1214063
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214064
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214065
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214066
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214067


Looks "ROTTEN" as opposed to rare or well done! :-d


----------



## JRMTactical

putra3007 said:


> Listed as:*Soviet original Poljot KOMANDIRSKIE / Shturmanskie (Avia) issue watch, 47mm / 1.85" diameter, 17 jewels, 22mm belt (included).
> 
> KOMANDIRSKIE "Shturmanskie - Avia" POLJOT 17-jewels Clock / Wristwatch w/ Belt | eBay
> 
> View attachment 1214325
> 
> 
> *


100% REAL, this watch was issued to undercover agents of the Antarctic Intelligence Agency.....to help them "blend in". 
:-d

Whooooeeee! Fine craftsmanship there.....:roll:


----------



## putra3007

seriously...

Y.GAGARIN MADE in USSR*WATCH SLAVA SOVIET Automatic 2427-MECHANICAL 27jewels | eBay


----------



## RobNJ

emoscambio said:


> SELTENE RUSSISCHE HERRENUHR UND SIE FUNKTIONIERT NOCH ("Rare Russian Gents Watch and it still works". "Rare", as opposed to "well done")
> 
> View attachment 1214063
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214064
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214065
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214066
> 
> 
> View attachment 1214067


Personally, I'm fond of the fact that, between the bezel and the dial, someone got a promotion!


----------



## JRMTactical

RobNJ said:


> Personally, I'm fond of the fact that, between the bezel and the dial, someone got a promotion!


Very true! I'm patiently awaiting the arrival of my Vostok Shturmanskie Submarine Ski Paratrooper's, War of the Roses Sesquicentennial edition.....gosh what a beautiful timepiece it is.....it's really indescribable! :-d


----------



## phd

This is a particularly frank franken - almost everything that can be wrong is wrong!

Paul


----------



## OCDood

phd said:


> This is a particularly frank franken - almost everything that can be wrong is wrong!
> 
> Paul


I can't believe that dial... The hand drawn parts were bad enough but it looks like they took a pin and gouged out minutes markers.


----------



## Jani1

Chayka in a Poljot case. Hands from Raketa 2627?


----------



## RobNJ

What happens when you put a dial designed for a 3 o'clock crown position in a 2 o'clock case (and add in some Juniorskie hands...):


----------



## GenkiSushi

zakaz Komandirskie diver


----------



## RobNJ

GenkiSushi said:


> View attachment 1221821
> 
> 
> zakaz Komandirskie diver


I just saw that, and of course it is a complete mishmash that I thought of posting myself. But there are a lot of useful elements - paddle hands, decent-looking zakaz dial, that bezel - for the right person at the right price!


----------



## GenkiSushi

Same here especially the bezel. But is it just me or are the paddle hands too thick?


----------



## RobNJ

GenkiSushi said:


> Same here especially the bezel. But is it just me or are the paddle hands too thick?


Good question on the hands - I don't know, not having a correct example on hand to compare them with.


----------



## sq100

They look okay to me.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## davout06

Okay, I am relatively new to this stuff, but I'll take a shot and call this watch out as a Franken. Dial/Movement mismatch (dial should go with much later movement with new Vostok factory logo), wrong case back (back notes 2809A--a 2809 that failed to make precision spec.), and wrong seconds hand. Possibly other problems, but I'm not sure.

RARE Vintage Russian USSR Mechanica Wrist Watch"VOSTOK"2809 Precision | eBay


----------



## RobNJ

From a generally reliable source this is a bit distressing: 331020629823

Note in particular the movement/caseback mismatch, but one could go on for a while about this one.


----------



## emoscambio

Poland has its frankenmeister now. The same seller offers

this one which bears some strange acquaintance (hour markers) with...









this one which has a computer font printed text,...









while on the other side of this third watch there is this splendid...









yet blatantly misspelled KiroBskie


----------



## JRMTactical

emoscambio said:


> Poland has its frankenmeister now. The same seller offers
> 
> this one which bears some strange acquaintance (hour markers) with...
> 
> View attachment 1222642
> 
> 
> this one which has a computer font printed text,...
> 
> View attachment 1222641
> 
> 
> while on the other side of this third watch there is this splendid...
> 
> View attachment 1222644
> 
> 
> yet blatantly misspelled KiroBskie
> 
> View attachment 1222643


Wow....a Polska KiroBskie. (A play on Polska Kielbasa sausage)... I mean, we can pretty well guess that everything he's got is fake as a $3 bill, right?


----------



## emoscambio

This seller or his providers are very keen on using their brand new Chinese dial stamping machine. At the current state of said three auctions, they already covered a multiple of the equipment costs. Now, how much does a gallon dial paint cost?


----------



## sq100

I don't think I've seen this one in here yet. We've seen a fair share of fantasy dials, but for me this is the first chinese "vostok" dial on a real Vostok.


----------



## emoscambio

sq100 said:


> I don't think I've seen this one in here yet. We've seen a fair share of fantasy dials, but for me this is the first chinese "vostok" dial on a real Vostok.


Could it be a Chinese movement too? I mean, while it dows not say 17 Zuan, it does not say CB either...


----------



## sq100

I'm not sure, i thought those chinese movements were clearly marked with zuan. Also the chinese movement takes a smaller different crown.


----------



## amil

sq100 said:


> I don't think I've seen this one in here yet. We've seen a fair share of fantasy dials, but for me this is the first chinese "vostok" dial on a real Vostok.


just dial is not the original. the rest is all original


----------



## davout06

Nice one:

Very RARE Vintage Soviet Made in USSR Wristwatch WOSTOK R Great | eBay

I guess the 'R' on the dial stands for REDIAL, and a bad one at that---13 Jewels? Really?


----------



## sq100

davout06 said:


> Nice one:
> 
> Very RARE Vintage Soviet Made in USSR Wristwatch WOSTOK R Great | eBay
> 
> I guess the 'R' on the dial stands for REDIAL, and a bad one at that---13 Jewels? Really?


If you take a close look at the big picture that 13 actually looks like 18 with a bit of the 8 missing. I can't tell anything else about this watch though.


----------



## davout06

You're right, on close inspection, there appears to be a speck of something on the 8 that makes it look like a 3. Now I really am intrigued by the R on the dial.... Does the engraving on the movement look strange to you, though?


----------



## sq100

I found a similar movement, it looks good to me. The only thing that looks really off is the crown, but I know too little about these models.


----------



## davout06

Yikes! Did the "painter" of this dial forget which factory Vostok was?

Russian WOSTOK Wristwatch 18 Jewels | eBay


----------



## RobNJ

davout06 said:


> Yikes! Did the "painter" of this dial forget which factory Vostok was?
> 
> Russian WOSTOK Wristwatch 18 Jewels | eBay


Another from the same seller, also in a commuting relationship with itself.









I somewhat miss the point of doing a fake, center seconds Pobeda dial. Wouldn't it be more profitable to fake a nice Sturmanskie instead?


----------



## 103ssv

HMmm, laser engraved stainless steel casing from the USSR period??
Poljot Cronograph Sturmanskie Classic Mov. Kal 3133 - 23 Jewels Nuovo New | eBay


----------



## emoscambio

103ssv said:


> HMmm, laser engraved stainless steel casing from the USSR period??
> Poljot Cronograph Sturmanskie Classic Mov. Kal 3133 - 23 Jewels Nuovo New | eBay


Black hands on black dial is the new deal!


----------



## emoscambio

RobNJ said:


> Another from the same seller, also in a commuting relationship with itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I somewhat miss the point of doing a fake, center seconds Pobeda dial. Wouldn't it be more profitable to fake a nice Sturmanskie instead?


There is no point! The man is an artist! Specialist in enlarged capital letters (Raketa, Vostok. Poljot)!


----------



## phd

I'm guessing that azbaukua shouldn't have had that second cup of espresso before painting this dial:


----------



## drbobguy

Just a heads up, this was posted at the hablemosderelojes forum, a Strela 3133 with typo. Not sure this qualifies as franken, but it's certainly a weird one:


----------



## skapig

CASIO?!
Seriously?


----------



## JRMTactical

drbobguy said:


> Just a heads up, this was posted at the hablemosderelojes forum, a Strela 3133 with typo. Not sure this qualifies as franken, but it's certainly a weird one:
> 
> View attachment 1242137


That really sucks... Take a look at the 23 КАМНЯ...the printing there is screwed up too. Look also at the half printed red sub-dial.... Did they check to see if it was a 3133 or some kind of knockoff movement?


----------



## skapig

JRMTactical said:


> That really sucks... Take a look at the 23 КАМНЯ...the printing there is screwed up too. Look also at the half printed red sub-dial.... Did they check to see if it was a 3133 or some kind of knockoff movement?


It also uses a black tele scale vs. the blue that it should have. Maybe "tene" scales are supposed to be black...
Another nit-picky thing is that the seconds chrono hand extends beyond the tach indices and into the digits. The more authentic offerings have the hand length matched perfectly to the indices.

I wonder if this is a JL, Volmax, or some other strange production.


----------



## emoscambio




----------



## davout06

I don't know where to begin on describing this one....

Volna 22JEWELS Very RARE Vintage Soviet USSR Mechanical Wristwatch 1960 | eBay















The dial has the Volna brand, product of ChChZ (Vostok), but 1 MChZ is noted on the dial. Also, this type of Volna dial was not in use by 1964, when the Vostok hallmark changed to the "circled B" that is on this movement.


----------



## davout06

REALLY RARE! 1952 dated Sekonda de luxe!

Vintage Sekonda de Luxe Very RARE Watch Soviet Era Men's Watch 15 J USSR 1950s | eBay

As S.H. notes below, the dial is for a post-1963 export while the movement is for a 3-52 Pobeda. At least both parts are from the same factory....


----------



## emoscambio

davout06 said:


> REALLY RARE! 1952 dated Sekonda de luxe!
> 
> Vintage Sekonda de Luxe Very RARE Watch Soviet Era Men's Watch 15 J USSR 1950s | eBay


Please elaborate on what is wrong, for educational purpose!


----------



## S.H.

Sekonda de luxe : export version of Poljot de luxe, 23 jewels, after 1963 I think. Here it is mated to a 1952 (Pobeda?) movement. And the dial looks very bad, hand drawn?


----------



## Jani1

drbobguy said:


> Just a heads up, this was posted at the hablemosderelojes forum, a Strela 3133 with typo. Not sure this qualifies as franken, but it's certainly a weird one:
> 
> View attachment 1242137


A new Strela should look like this.


----------



## mysterian

A sad Slava franken...


----------



## JRMTactical

mysterian said:


> A sad Slava franken...
> View attachment 1251581


Some frankenmeister figured out how to fit a round dial in a square hole....:roll:


----------



## skapig

I'm not sure if this is a franken or not, but I can confidently say it is the ugliest Russian watch I have ever seen. From the 'bay:


----------



## emoscambio

skapig said:


> I'm not sure if this is a franken or not, but I can confidently say it is the ugliest Russian watch I have ever seen. From the 'bay:


Designed by Slava on its dying bed... or even later!


----------



## RobNJ

skapig said:


> I'm not sure if this is a franken or not, but I can confidently say it is the ugliest Russian watch I have ever seen. From the 'bay:


I also believe it is all too real. If head-turning horror isn't what you are looking for in a watch, what, pray tell, is?


----------



## JRMTactical

skapig said:


> I'm not sure if this is a franken or not, but I can confidently say it is the ugliest Russian watch I have ever seen. From the 'bay:


Holy merde! :-d Looks like something Captain Steubing from the "Love Boat" should be wearing....it's THAT cheesy!:roll:


----------



## emoscambio

JRMTactical said:


> Holy merde! :-d Looks like something Captain Steubing from the "Love Boat" should be wearing....it's THAT cheesy!:roll:


Steering wheel? Check! Golden chain, I mean golden anchor chain? Check! Captain engraving? Check!
What do we need more??? Yes, a suitable strap!


----------



## emoscambio




----------



## schnurrp

*RARE "POLJOT"

*


----------



## davout06

Export Poljot 17 Jewel model, should have 2409 movement from 1 MChZ, but... Surprise, a 21 jewel Swiss movement upgrade!


----------



## skapig

Check out this "original" "Swiss Made" chronograph "circa 1930-1940" currently for auction on the bay with bidding at over $500 with an hour to go:


----------



## JRMTactical

skapig said:


> Check out this "original" "Swiss Made" chronograph "circa 1930-1940" currently for auction on the bay with bidding at over $500 with an hour to go:


Is that a franken? It looks all Swiss to me.... Is it supposed to be Russian in some way??


----------



## skapig

JRMTactical said:


> Is that a franken? It looks all Swiss to me.... Is it supposed to be Russian in some way??


Poljot 3017 Strela movement being passed of as a Venus. It is tough to see, but the seconds hand miight be an original Strela hand.


----------



## JRMTactical

skapig said:


> Poljot 3017 Strela movement being passed of as a Venus. It is tough to see, but the seconds hand miight be an original Strela hand.


I know next to nothing about the 3017 or it's father (Breitling produced the Venus movement, correct?).... I was trying to read the jewel count on the chrono "bridge"....and can't make it out to be Russian or English (should say 19 камней or 19 Jewels, correct?). It's not clear enough to read so I'm doing my best to see what it is that makes it a 3017. I ask questions because I haven't a single clue about the 3017.


----------



## davout06

This dial should go with the 23 jewel 2209 Vympel movement from 1 MChZ, but here we have a 15 jewel 2603 from 2 MChZ. Quite an unlikely combination!


----------



## skapig

JRMTactical said:


> I know next to nothing about the 3017 or it's father (Breitling produced the Venus movement, correct?).... I was trying to read the jewel count on the chrono "bridge"....and can't make it out to be Russian or English (should say 19 камней or 19 Jewels, correct?). It's not clear enough to read so I'm doing my best to see what it is that makes it a 3017. I ask questions because I haven't a single clue about the 3017.


The Venus 150 and 175 are nearly the same with the 175 being a mm or two greater in diameter. The 3017 is a copy of the 150 (or is it the 175?...). I am not aware of Breitling actually producing the movements, but it does seem like 3/4 of the watches I encounter on eBay with the movements are signed Breitling on the dial... it could be that the dials are replaced or altered to deceive. AFter all, watches with Venus 150/175 can be 70+ years old, so most will have had some degree of dial tampering.

The most telling difference between the Venus and 3017 is the shape of the bridge. See below, venus on top 3017 on bottom. The 3017 examples I have seen are always stamped either "19 камней" or "19 Jewels" on the bridge. Also, the 3017 has the serial number stamped on the balance cock as shown in the photo. I hope the person who bid over $500 to win that auction realizes they were getting a Russian movement and not the heavily advertised "Swiss Made" "Venus".


----------



## JRMTactical

Yeah, see that's what gets me, there are but a small handful of Swiss watches that pique my interest. Older Omega's, Heuer and a couple of Rolex's. I've had a couple of watche made in Switzerland (Tag Heuer Carrera and another one I can't recall the name of). I wouldn't even try to touch a vintage Swiss watch on eBay without a large amount of advice/help. Somebody bought that watch thinking it was 100% legit (I assume). The movements look so much alike AND there's no hint that the movement is anything other than Swiss. I wouldn't have known the difference. Hopefully the buyer knew what it was. It's not that the 3017 is bad or anything like that, it's just unscrupulous sellers pulling stunts like this (omitting just a small piece of info that the movement isn't an original Venus) that gives me heartburn. We see Russian/Soviet frankens all the time and know many of the telltale signs and the "artists" who hawk them so it's all very aggravating. I appreciate the info!!



skapig said:


> The Venus 150 and 175 are nearly the same with the 175 being a mm or two greater in diameter. The 3017 is a copy of the 150 (or is it the 175?...). I am not aware of Breitling actually producing the movements, but it does seem like 3/4 of the watches I encounter on eBay with the movements are signed Breitling on the dial... it could be that the dials are replaced or altered to deceive. AFter all, watches with Venus 150/175 can be 70+ years old, so most will have had some degree of dial tampering.
> 
> The most telling difference between the Venus and 3017 is the shape of the bridge. See below, venus on top 3017 on bottom. The 3017 examples I have seen are always stamped either "19 камней" or "19 Jewels" on the bridge. Also, the 3017 has the serial number stamped on the balance cock as shown in the photo. I hope the person who bid over $500 to win that auction realizes they were getting a Russian movement and not the heavily advertised "Swiss Made" "Venus".


----------



## pmwas

Here is a good one. I've never seen so many movements all in one piece


----------



## rproch

For blind sportmasters. Incredible...


----------



## Ham2

Vympel? Brazen?


----------



## rproch

A watch for soviet freemasons. Enjoy!


----------



## emoscambio

rproch said:


> A watch for soviet freemasons. Enjoy!
> View attachment 1382761
> View attachment 1382762


Zim-Bala-Zim (Sim Bala Sim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


----------



## billbrasky

Ok, this isn't Russian related, but I thought it would be appreciated here. I stumbled across it just now and it is quite amazing. The title reads "*German Watch Panzer Skull Div WW2 Swiss Invicta Very Rare Original"*

The craziest part is that with 18 hours left it has 40 bids and is at $219


----------



## GuessWho

billbrasky said:


> Ok, this isn't Russian related, but I thought it would be appreciated here. I stumbled across it just now and it is quite amazing. The title reads "*German Watch Panzer Skull Div WW2 Swiss Invicta Very Rare Original"*
> 
> The craziest part is that with 18 hours left it has 40 bids and is at $219
> View attachment 1385070


You've got too be kidding... That is terrible!


----------



## GenkiSushi

billbrasky said:


> Ok, this isn't Russian related, but I thought it would be appreciated here. I stumbled across it just now and it is quite amazing. The title reads "*German Watch Panzer Skull Div WW2 Swiss Invicta Very Rare Original"*
> 
> The craziest part is that with 18 hours left it has 40 bids and is at $219
> View attachment 1385070


Looks like there's a bidding war between some students at yale. haha


----------



## Backstreet

So, how should we call _THIS_ ? Pohla or Ruhljot?

















Poljot World Timer aus den 60iger-70iger Jahren | eBay


----------



## schnurrp

Comrades, an offering from an often mentioned seller who has some winners from time to time and then some clunkers. A $500 sturmanski Gagarin that apparently doesn't have the hacking movement present:

















One of Mark Gordon's, on the left, and this one: USSR Genuine Watch POLJOT Gagarin Sturmanskie Soviet POBEDA Space | eBay on the right. For those of you not in the know about this movement the hacking version can be identified by the recessed jewels set in the main gear bridge. See here:https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/i-understand-how-2608-41m-movement-hacks-807538.html


----------



## samun




----------



## DolleDolf

Nice call and thx for the explanation


----------



## Timepiece Tenderfoot

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you........ the *Zimphibian* :roll:


----------



## dutchassasin

check out this "little" gem. haha :-d


----------



## sq100

This one is on the bay atm. It made me laugh. :-d


----------



## MayorM

USSR RARE Green Chronograph Watch Shturmanskie Okean POLJOT 3133 | eBay


----------



## MayorM

This almost as well fake, like this for $ 1500 from kojaviktor Soviet Military Okean Chronograph POLJOT 3133 Movement | eBay


----------



## koutouzoff

This one is not bad too... and a nice price!

Vintage Soviet Military Pilot 1 MCHZ Kirova Chronograph 1951 3017 Movement | eBay


----------



## Lampoc

Hmmm...










from here: USSR RUSSIAN MEN

His other stuff is just as bad - some of it is hilarious. He really needs to buy a better printer before he makes any more dials! Probably the biggest load of garbage I've ever seen from any ebay seller. Ever.


----------



## Lampoc

I've decided to do a compendium of watches from the inventory of ebay seller "inn74". There are way too many to show here so I'm just going to show my favourites:

Wtf!









Criminy!









Holy moly!









Gadzooks!









Sweet *****!









Well I never!









(Hand of) God!


----------



## makitmama

Jani1 said:


> A new Strela should look like this.


is it my imagination, or is the red ink running on the franken? if that is so, then it isn't even printed on a color laser, just a color inkjet.


----------



## jmreynolds

Here is a real gem. A "Rodina". Vostok case back, no autowinder, and an oily finger print on the dial. Bought it for parts, but have been using it as a beater as it keeps time to within +/- 5 seconds a day.


----------



## Backstreet

POLJ_ENT _3133....nice try. :roll:


----------



## DolleDolf

Lampoc said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> from here: USSR RUSSIAN MEN
> 
> His other stuff is just as bad - some of it is hilarious. He really needs to buy a better printer before he makes any more dials! Probably the biggest load of garbage I've ever seen from any ebay seller. Ever.


Harsh, old fellow. He does have at least two that seem original .... ;-)


----------



## emoscambio




----------



## S.H.

Another costly franken Okeah : NEVER USED !! + OKEAN 3133 CHRONOGRAPH + MILITARY SOVIET CONDITION !!! | eBay

All wrong!


----------



## GenkiSushi

S.H. said:


> Another costly franken Okeah : NEVER USED !! + OKEAN 3133 CHRONOGRAPH + MILITARY SOVIET CONDITION !!! | eBay
> 
> All wrong!


Maybe the seller meant on "never used" as never used/ issued to the navy.:-d


----------



## junkman

NO WORDS


----------



## hoja_roja

junkman said:


> NO WORDS


Perpetual Copernico XD


----------



## jmreynolds

The franken factorys are getting more creative. What's next, Strelketa? Slavstok? Pobluchnija?


----------



## DolleDolf

Supposedly a NOS okeah. From a well known seller too. Can you spell R-E-D-I-A-L in Cyrillic letters? This pisses me off

331187683500









and here a weird Strela. At least the seller is honest enough to state that it is a "custom case." A bit steep for $1000 though.

261462474235


----------



## emoscambio

eBAy offer "ATTENTION: Dear Customers, you will receive exactly the same item which you see on the pictures, not similar or other. Please review the photo"









Once received the watch, you must wear it for two months ostensibly in public places, dial up, with upped sleeves, possibly ringing once or twice. You might be banned from WUS. You won't be allowed to resell it for a safety period of three years.


----------



## emoscambio

S.H. said:


> Another costly franken Okeah : NEVER USED !! + OKEAN 3133 CHRONOGRAPH + MILITARY SOVIET CONDITION !!! | eBay
> 
> All wrong!


Come on!

The seller is *a phenomenal artist*. Respect!









You don't believe me?

Here, it is even stated in his own auctions:

"Stan Jerry SUDER The well-known and respected painter in Krakow with a rich artistic achievements, born in 1951. By his paintings is usually performed on both rigid and smooth canvas using mostly paint, applied using conventional binders used in oil. More recently, the work of the author are used for teaching in one of the Faculties of Fine Arts in Krakow. Painting Suder is regarded by critics as "*phenomenal*" and not only in the domestic market in Kraków art but wherever it appears."


----------



## DolleDolf

Behold this "family heirloom"









From the description: 
This watch from WOR 2 1941-1943 russian NAVY, and my family are original owner for this watch, we got from are grandpa, and if you interesting about more information, please call me 973-477-4316 Thank you...."


----------



## DolleDolf

This is nice too









At least the seller describes it as "customized ..."


----------



## Geoff Adams

DolleDolf said:


> Behold this "family heirloom"
> 
> View attachment 1498745
> 
> 
> From the description:
> This watch from WOR 2 1941-1943 russian NAVY, and my family are original owner for this watch, we got from are grandpa, and if you interesting about more information, please call me 973-477-4316 Thank you...."


 Can I take it you are going to give him a ring to discuss? Has to be done, really, doesn't it!!!


----------



## amil

141284055778

Watches are very rare, original dial.
watch totally original,
dial, case, the mechanism. Watch completely mechanical.
The watch is in very good condition,service and works well.
Waterproof, shockproof.

Width: 42 mm (with crown)
Height: 46 mm (with holders of a strap)
Thickness: 12 mm
Lug size : 18 mm
17 Jewels 
Silver colour
Please see all of my lots. I have a selection of watches at good prices.


----------



## f3rdin

Well.... It is not THAT bad! except that the watch is 48mm large...


----------



## sq100

f3rdin said:


> Well.... It is not THAT bad! except that the watch is 48mm large...


This is not a franken, this is a copy for a magazine. See this https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/military-watches-collection-magazine-986528.html thread for more info.


----------



## f3rdin

Okay this is good to know, I thought it was a complete illegitimate copy!


----------



## Scarface3133

missed the fume extractor on barrel


----------



## Martins.

vintages saturns


----------



## jmreynolds

Yikes, the top one is a real abomination!


----------



## valter-g

This amphibia really ruhles!








At least seller says he doesn't know who is the manufacturer of these watches. Perhaps a rare special edition to celebrate DDR-SSSR friendship.

Vintage Wristwatch Waterproof Amphibian Used | eBay


----------



## junkman

The Chernobyl disaster triggered the release of substantial amounts of radiation into the atmosphere of radioisotopes .....










or maybe it is Franken of the week... http://www.ebay.es/itm/281357229700?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648


----------



## munichjoe

junkman said:


> The Chernobyl disaster triggered the release of substantial amounts of radiation into the atmosphere of radioisotopes .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or maybe it is Franken of the week... http://www.ebay.es/itm/281357229700?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648


I saw this one earlier today. Figured it was a franken chrono. Love the comment though that the left side buttons/crowns are "for the pilot to play with..." 

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk


----------



## mysterian

It appears I'm a little late, but I actually laughed out loud when I saw this thing ...
Here's the movement shot!


----------



## munichjoe

"Die 3 Kronen links sind ohne Funktion,"Spielchen"des Piloten bzw.Voreigentümers"

"The 3 crowns on the left have no function, they are "playthings" for/of the pilot, or for that matter, the previous owner"

:-d:-d:-d:-d


----------



## edcardigan

It looks like the dial has been repainted on ms paint :-d;-)


----------



## Slarnos

"Skeletonized" Vostok Komandirskie.


----------



## sq100

edcardigan said:


> It looks like the dial has been repainted on ms paint :-d;-)


I don't think there's anything wrong with the dial, in fact alot of these amphibians have uneven lume like this. The hands are wrong for this one though.


----------



## Chronotopos

:think:


----------



## ProperTidy

sq100 said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with the dial, in fact alot of these amphibians have uneven lume like this. The hands are wrong for this one though.


Really? I've never seen a dial on an amphibian with crude splodges like that!


----------



## sq100

ProperTidy said:


> Really? I've never seen a dial on an amphibian with crude splodges like that!


Really really, but only for the paddle hands 119 amphibians. For reference I took a picture of the 4 I own.


----------



## ProperTidy

Blimey


----------



## Daboryder

Is it a Franken if you did the build yourself?








Dial hands and movement from Molnija pocket watch.


----------



## emoscambio




----------



## BizzyC

Deleted


----------



## emoscambio

BizzyC said:


> Hello friends. I picked up a couple of Raketa watches and just wanted to make sure they're not franken. First up is a Copernicus? Next is a World Time? Both watches are lightly used and look good to my amateur eye but I thought I should check with the experts. Thanks in advance. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wrong thread!!!

Do not post in the "Franken of the week" thread that is a showcase reserved for indisputably frankened timepieces.

You should post instead in another thread: "Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken?'

Please post there your questions to the forum community, when you suspect something wrong on a watch or just want to be sure. You will surely receive a quick answer from the many experts in different technical fields and different brands.


----------



## Ham2

ahem....cough, cough. Only $1325 for this rarity


----------



## jmreynolds

Ham2 said:


> ahem....cough, cough. Only $1325 for this rarity
> 
> View attachment 1548112
> 
> 
> View attachment 1548113
> 
> 
> View attachment 1548114


Wow what a steal....buy three of them.


----------



## emoscambio

jmreynolds said:


> Wow what a steal....buy three of them.


But the engravings must of course be identical ...


----------



## jmreynolds

Spongebob Raketa??? I feel certain that this was in the personal collection of Premier Brezhnev.



















See? I thought so.


----------



## Lampoc

jmreynolds said:


> Spongebob Raketa??? I feel certain that this was in the personal collection of Premier Brezhnev.


Obvious fake. The real ones have "губка Боб" on the dial.


----------



## xanthe

But if you were wearing one of the three, no-one would ever notice....


----------



## cryten

Just listed on the bay, a very Rare Omega Regulateur. It's rare alright. Some might say one of a kind. I particularly like the way he's used a matching pair of hands, and cut the hour hand in half (I guess to keep the lume the same). This then creates the problem of the filling the hole in the mounting stem&#8230;. An old screw will do. The bidding is at $162 already







This is his previous attempt. It sold for an impressive $127. It's nice to see both Omega and Molnija using same aeroplane on their dials


----------



## Recoil

One of a kind. Cheap too ;-)















USSR Best Amphibian Watch Volna 2809 Diver VOSTOK 22 Jewels Chronometer | eBay


----------



## Ham2

Recoil said:


> One of a kind. Cheap too ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USSR Best Amphibian Watch Volna 2809 Diver VOSTOK 22 Jewels Chronometer | eBay


 Interesting that the Amphibia dial is marked 22 jewels - painted over?


----------



## amil

USSR Too RARE Amphibian Watch VOSTOK Russian Neptune Diver No Calendar | eBay


----------



## dutchassasin

I would have picked it up if it wasnt for that huge price. It looks kinda good in a ugly way :-!
Replace the possible fake dial with a better one and you got yourself a nice neptune, all the other parts seems to be correct and in good condition.


----------



## emoscambio




----------



## RustyNutsMGs

Uhh, who makes the Bocnok?

USSR RUSSIAN MEN


----------



## jmreynolds

This little gem.


----------



## RustyNutsMGs

"Completely original"







USSR Russian Men


----------



## Perdendosi

Oh, how sad!
Russian Mechanical Men&apos;s Wristwatch RAKETA "Ocean" | eBay


----------



## LaMusette

Oh man, that is sad indeed !

I clicked through the link, thinking I wouldn't mind adding that one to my collection. Frankens and things actually DO have a sort of numismatic charm to them that make them interesting and worthwhile all by themselves. Fakes have stories too 

So I thought for $15 + minimal postage, its worth getting as a talking point, and putting it next to a real OKEAH chrono as a demonstration piece.

But then I saw the price he is attempting to move it at ... LOL !



Perdendosi said:


> Oh, how sad!
> Russian Mechanical Men&apos;s Wristwatch RAKETA "Ocean" | eBay


----------



## schnurrp




----------



## mattshort

It was only a matter of time...


----------



## c0sin

jmreynolds said:


> This little gem.


This one looks like a hack of Poljot Columbus Alarm - considering by the bezel and the alarm winding (second) head.


----------



## hoja_roja

Real Vremia, they even wrote "russian mechanism" XD


----------



## IntendedEffect

First off I want to be fair and point out that this auction is listed as merely "OLD MECHANICAL WRISTWATCH", and starts at $0.99 with a reasonable shipping charge. Can't blame the seller for false advertising.

But yeah, it's a non-chrono movement in a ("Tanivan" brand?) chrono case and dial. It gets better though: the bridge is marked 2328, so although there's no chrono, there *is* most likely a date mechanism--hidden by the dial!


----------



## RustyNutsMGs

Aaaiiieee! It hurts my eyes!

USSR Soviet Russian VOSTOK WOSTOK BOCTOK Mechanical KOMANDIRSKIE Zakaz MO CCCP | eBay


----------



## valter-g

RustyNutsMGs said:


> Aaaiiieee! It hurts my eyes!
> 
> USSR Soviet Russian VOSTOK WOSTOK BOCTOK Mechanical KOMANDIRSKIE Zakaz MO CCCP | eBay


I don't get what was meant with that watch - officers of mountain troops? And why mixing cyrilic and latin? If it wouldn't be from Ukraina, I'd say a stupid western faker that cannot read cyrilic but can only (poorly) copy "komandirskie".

And "okean" in post 992/993 I wouldn't even consider franken - it has nothing with any existing watch except the name and colors. God knows what movement is inside.


----------



## sq100

valter-g said:


> I don't get what was meant with that watch - officers of mountain troops? And why mixing cyrilic and latin? If it wouldn't be from Ukraina, I'd say a stupid western faker that cannot read cyrilic but can only (poorly) copy "komandirskie".


It's a fake chinese vostok. They're quite common 

Sent from my Vostok by winding backwards


----------



## Neuron22

How about this...a Komandirskie Skeleton watch. Looks kinda cool as a skeleton...and

VOSTOK USSR KOMANDIRSKIE Skeleton Hand Made No Reserve | eBay


----------



## valter-g

Neuron22 said:


> How about this...a Komandirskie Skeleton watch. Looks kinda cool as a skeleton...and
> 
> VOSTOK USSR KOMANDIRSKIE Skeleton Hand Made No Reserve | eBay
> 
> View attachment 1645749


I'm not really into skeletons, but it looks good. I wouldn't consider this "franken", as it doesn't try to decieve to be anything soviet-era produced, but a modification. It's listed as "hand-made skeleton" and that's 100% true IMHO.


----------



## emoscambio

"Russian Poljot Watch 585 Gold with diamonds and glass case back" @ €350





























17 jewels on the dial, 21 jewels on the movement, thus... 4 _anti-jewels_ amongst the diamonds???


----------



## emoscambio

Neuron22 said:


> How about this...a Komandirskie Skeleton watch. Looks kinda cool as a skeleton...and
> 
> VOSTOK USSR KOMANDIRSKIE Skeleton Hand Made No Reserve | eBay
> 
> View attachment 1645749


New Italian leather strap. Made in Spain.


----------



## Luis965

emoscambio said:


> "Russian Poljot Watch 585 Gold with diamonds and glass case back" @ €350
> 17 jewels on the dial, 21 jewels on the movement, thus... 4 _anti-jewels_ amongst the diamonds???


Great combination Poljot on front side and Zaria movement on rear.
Two in one!


----------



## svorkoetter

valter-g said:


> I'm not really into skeletons, but it looks good. I wouldn't consider this "franken", as it doesn't try to decieve to be anything soviet-era produced, but a modification. It's listed as "hand-made skeleton" and that's 100% true IMHO.


I'm not into skeletons either, but I appreciate a good one. This one looks terrible. It looks like the person merely drilled a bunch of sometimes-overlapping round holes in various plates and bridges.


----------



## emoscambio

svorkoetter said:


> I'm not into skeletons either, but I appreciate a good one. This one looks terrible. It looks like the person merely drilled a bunch of sometimes-overlapping round holes in various plates and bridges.


Dremel frenzy!!!


----------



## RustyNutsMGs

Looks like vandalism to me.
VOSTOK USSR Ampfhibian Skeleton Hand Made No Reserve | eBay


----------



## fargelios

It seems a beautiful watch. But in reality it is Soviet Raketa in Chinese case.


----------



## GuessWho

This one was listed as a "Takema"














Vostok Hands/Case, Raketa dial, and an auto-Tongji movement. Don't think it gets much more franken than that!


----------



## Manoams

Please do the world a favor and report the listing. When you click "report item" (on the top right above the long description box) then choose "copyright and trademark" and then "counterfeit item"

If the seller is listing it as an original watch that was unaltered it is fraud and ebay will deal with it accordingly. Heck even if they don't claim that it's in original condition, you can probably report them if they have a Chinese movement and yet still claim that it's a *insert Russian brand here*. At that point it's not even a watch of the same brand unless disclaimed


----------



## schnurrp

Manoams said:


> Please do the world a favor and report the listing. When you click "report item" (on the top right above the long description box) then choose "copyright and trademark" and then "counterfeit item"
> 
> If the seller is listing it as an original watch that was unaltered it is fraud and ebay will deal with it accordingly. Heck even if they don't claim that it's in original condition, you can probably report them if they have a Chinese movement and yet still claim that it's a *insert Russian brand here*. At that point it's not even a watch of the same brand unless disclaimed


There aren't enough hours in the day, comrade, when it comes to reporting "counterfeit" Russian watches on ebay!


----------



## dutchassasin

While browsing the bay i found this unusual seiko kinetic wall clock ;-). If it was cheap i had picked it up and bought a replacement dial, but the seller is asking way too mutch.


----------



## gekos

dutchassasin said:


> While browsing the bay i found this unusual seiko kinetic wall clock ;-). If it was cheap i had picked it up and bought a replacement dial, but the seller is asking way too mutch.


*Stunning!* :-d


----------



## svorkoetter

dutchassasin said:


> While browsing the bay i found this unusual seiko kinetic wall clock ;-). If it was cheap i had picked it up and bought a replacement dial, but the seller is asking way too mutch.


I guess it only works in California.


----------



## dutchassasin

svorkoetter said:


> I guess it only works in California.


Care to explain?, i dont get your comment at all :-s.

This clock is located in India and is supposedly found on a vessel which got dismantled at a Indian ship breaking yard. 
USSR Vintage Marine Wall Clock Russian Sub Marine Clock 7 to 8 Days | eBay


----------



## ED209

I guess because you need to be in am earthquake zone for a kinetic wall clock to be very useful...


----------



## dutchassasin

ED209 said:


> I guess because you need to be in am earthquake zone for a kinetic wall clock to be very useful...


:-! that explains, i didnt made the connection between California and earthquakes.


----------



## Mantequilla

Frankenwatch paradise:

originaldeal2009 | eBay


----------



## svorkoetter

Mantequilla said:


> Frankenwatch paradise:
> 
> originaldeal2009 | eBay


eBay says no such seller when I click on that link.


----------



## Chascomm

Mantequilla said:


> Frankenwatch paradise:
> 
> originaldeal2009 | eBay


There are some seriously classy parts that went into some of those watches.


----------



## Mantequilla

Weird.. Seller's name is originaldeal2009. Here's one of his watches that's getting probably way too high bids.
Omega Regulateur Antique 1923 Steel Watch Metal Dial | eBay

Many of his watches look basically the same. They all look like converted pocket watches with cheaply 'printed' dials that look in way too perfect condition for the watch's age and history. And he is selling multiple exact same model 'very old and original' watches. After one auction ends, the exact same model pops up again for auction. Sometimes he even auctions them at the same time.
























Some of his watches look pretty cool and would not have a problem buying, if they weren't way too overpriced/overbid.


----------



## schnurrp

I'll bet that store has the most total bids on ebay!

I'm tempted to follow this chess clock he's selling although I'm sure it will eventually sell for way more than I'd want to pay:


----------



## RustyNutsMGs

Can't afford a pricey vintage Radio Room? No problem!

Amazing Artistic Red Blue Face Foreign RAKETA USSR Vintage Watch Part or Repair | eBay








(I posted this in the Franken thread, but I don't believe either the seller or the original _amazing arti_st ever intended to fool anyone with this creation.)


----------



## chinochano

Hmm I think I have bought someof this franken staff.

just curious to know how many errrors there are.

PhotoBox


----------



## tylehman

these papers don't go with this watch, description says from the 80s, but the dial says made in Russia, and why in 1986 would they make a calendar watch that was good from "With data and day,calendar of 1992 to 2012"????? it would take years before you could start using the calendar after buying the watch.


----------



## frantsous

No a franken, but the seller is a liar:

How the watch was bought in 1982 and was made in Russia (not in USSR)??????
see the dial: Сделано в России









POLJOT Amphibia Dolphin | eBay


----------



## thrillhouse

I'm new to all this, but here's one I found on ebay yesterday:









Very handy if you can't off the top of your head remember which years came before and after 1986.


----------



## dutchassasin

Did you guys already see this 1000% original komandirskie?, looks like this citizen from Ukraine is attending art school


----------



## sq100

I wonder what's inside this Elektronika and why the two hidden buttons don't work ;-)


----------



## art1118

sq100 said:


> I wonder what's inside this Elektronika and why the two hidden buttons don't work ;-)


This may be a silly question, but did you just try to press them? I believe you need to use a pin of some type to insert into the holes in the button.


----------



## sq100

art1118 said:


> This may be a silly question, but did you just try to press them? I believe you need to use a pin of some type to insert into the holes in the button.


Not a silly question, but it's not my watch ;-)
The one above is from a seller on Ebay, below is one of my own and it shows what the digits of this Elektronika should look like. I guess it's not that obvious if you've never seen one before


----------



## eblackmo




----------



## c0sin

sq100 said:


> Not a silly question, but it's not my watch ;-)
> The one above is from a seller on Ebay, below is one of my own and it shows what the digits of this Elektronika should look like. I guess it's not that obvious if you've never seen one before


I remember a pal in high school had one of these. Brings back some memories


----------



## RustyNutsMGs

These might not qualify as frankens, but this seller has some uniquely modified watches:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=111556386163


----------



## Chascomm

eblackmo said:


> View attachment 2666666


:-! Death to Spies, Commander!


----------



## Ham2

ExaPoljKeta


----------



## storyteller

Some new offers on frankenmart aka aukro.ua. Several brand new dials. Soon on ebay, I guess.

Ñ†Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚Ñ‹ Ð�Ð� Ð§Ð�Ð¡Ð« Ð.ÐžÐ"Ð˜Ð�Ð� (4972474251) - Aukro.ua â€" Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐµ Ñ‡ÐµÐ¼ Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½
Ñ†Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚Ñ‹ Ð½Ð° Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ñ‹ Ð.Ð�ÐšÐ•Ð¢Ð� (4972526815) - Aukro.ua â€" Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐµ Ñ‡ÐµÐ¼ Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½
Ñ†Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚Ñ‹ Ð½Ð° Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ñ‹ ÐšÐ˜Ð.ÐžÐ'Ð¡ÐšÐ˜Ð• (4972524653) - Aukro.ua â€" Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐµ Ñ‡ÐµÐ¼ Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½
Ð¦Ð˜Ð¤Ð•Ð.Ð'Ð›Ð�Ð¢Ð« Ð�Ð� Ð§Ð�Ð¡Ð« ÐšÐ˜Ð.ÐžÐ'Ð¡ÐšÐ˜Ð• (4977816325) - Aukro.ua â€" Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐµ Ñ‡ÐµÐ¼ Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½
Ð¦Ð˜Ð¤Ð•Ð.Ð'Ð›Ð�Ð¢Ð« Ð"Ð›Ð¯ Ð§Ð�Ð¡ÐžÐ' Ð¡ÐŸÐ£Ð¢Ð�Ð˜Ðš (4981930072) - Aukro.ua â€" Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐµ Ñ‡ÐµÐ¼ Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½
Ð¦Ð¸Ñ„ÐµÑ€Ð±Ð»Ð°Ñ‚ Ð½Ð° ÐšÐ¾Ð¼Ð°Ð½Ð´Ð¸Ñ€Ñ�ÐºÐ¸Ðµ Ð§Ð°Ñ�Ñ‹ (4980573052) - Aukro.ua â€" Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐµ Ñ‡ÐµÐ¼ Ð°ÑƒÐºÑ†Ð¸Ð¾Ð½

Unfortunately I can't upload the images directly from the auction site, that is why I copy-paste links to the auction site.


----------



## Brianch

Not often you find an instruction manual on a watch dial!!


----------



## eblackmo

@chascomm
Lol. A time less classic


----------



## emoscambio




----------



## victorbrunswick

skapig said:


> I'm not sure if this is a franken or not, but I can confidently say it is the ugliest Russian watch I have ever seen. From the 'bay:


A "dembel" watch. I like it! :-d


----------



## Luis965

emoscambio said:


> View attachment 2946874
> 
> View attachment 2946882


I don't understand why you call this one a Franken. With a little adjustment of needles and calendar it will be perfect.


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## emoscambio

RustyNutsMGs said:


> These might not qualify as frankens, but this seller has some uniquely modified watches: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=111556386163


The seller must be particularly fond of 'tonneau' cases!

I am particularly fond of the nice 'retro' touch his red star stickers lend to the dials.

I mean, look at this precious little watch
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121562476781


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## mvmt

It seems this franken might actually contain a very very early movement (pre 1935 based on the inscriptions in the movement):

RARE Antique Watch Soviet Russia VCHK Ogpu KGB Russian Award 100 Authentic L K | eBay

Unfortunate.


----------



## Ham2

mvmt said:


> It seems this franken might actually contain a very very early movement (pre 1935 based on the inscriptions in the movement): RARE Antique Watch Soviet Russia VCHK Ogpu KGB Russian Award 100 Authentic L K | eBay Unfortunate.


That is a shame to see such a really nice condition early movement and case paired with such an abomination of a dial - and at that price I don't see (m)any takers stepping in to rescue it


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## tylehman

this has parts form a few watches, but they should have waited for the ink to dry after printing the dial before instilling it.


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## cdaranuta

1


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## elsoldemayo

thrillhouse said:


> I'm new to all this, but here's one I found on ebay yesterday:
> 
> View attachment 2464882
> 
> 
> Very handy if you can't off the top of your head remember which years came before and after 1986.


They still haven't found a buyer for this. Almost tempted to bid just for the weirdness of it.


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## RustyNutsMGs

emoscambio said:


> The seller must be particularly fond of 'tonneau' cases!
> 
> I am particularly fond of the nice 'retro' touch his red star stickers lend to the dials.
> 
> I mean, look at this precious little watch
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121562476781


I've been wondering if he's using the stars to cover up dial blemishes, like spots where the dial foot is showing through.


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## watch22

A lovely Lenin commemorative of some sort - described as post-2000 yet made in CCCP on the dial.

Comrade Lenin is timeless.


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## Lampoc

The "very rare soviet CORNAVIN SLAVA QUARTZ". I'm quite interested in the intricacies of the 17 jewel quartz movement personally:


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## Lokifish

As a "noob", I am using the noob powers of thread resurrection to bring you this gem

21 Jewel Vostok Raketadirskie 200m (Now with dial post marks!)


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## shandy

OK, I saw this thread for the first time yesterday and today whilst perusing eBay I cam across this...










Please tell me this never officially left Vostok's factory!!!

Oh, and if you love this one here is the listing ( I promise, it's not me listing it, I could never let this loose on the world! )


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## kev80e

shandy said:


> OK, I saw this thread for the first time yesterday and today whilst perusing eBay I cam across this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me this never officially left Vostok's factory!!!
> 
> Oh, and if you love this one here is the listing ( I promise, it's not me listing it, I could never let this loose on the world! )


That is truly amazing Ian. How much is this no doubt "rare" beauty ?


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## shandy

I had a senior moment Kev, I forgot to add the listing!

Rare Vostok Wostok Amphibian Amfibia 2209 MEN'S Wrist Watch Made IN Ussr | eBay

Yours for a paltry $45, so cheap for something so rare. I reckon this was issued to Soviet forces in the desert, official issu of course! 

I must admit it's so ugly I am almost tempted to get it for a laugh!


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## dutchassasin

Spotted this one on molotok. They say the dial is the face of the watch, but this just creeps me out. Not to mention the added extra hands.


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## GuessWho

dutchassasin said:


> Spotted this one on molotok. They say the dial is the face of the watch, but this just creeps me out. Not to mention the added extra hands.


I think I've seen this watch before... In one of my nightmares!


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## kev80e

dutchassasin said:


> Spotted this one on molotok. They say the dial is the face of the watch, but this just creeps me out. Not to mention the added extra hands.


Maybe it's a GMT model.


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## Lokifish

kev80e said:


> Maybe it's a GMT model.


Three seconds hands made one is my guess. So a Big/little "Mercedes" second hand. Would sure make knowing the exact time a bit difficult.


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## RustyNutsMGs

kev80e said:


> Maybe it's a GMT model.


Yes, an alarm/GMT with central second hand. Very rare.


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## kev80e

shandy said:


> OK, I saw this thread for the first time yesterday and today whilst perusing eBay I cam across this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me this never officially left Vostok's factory!!!
> 
> Oh, and if you love this one here is the listing ( I promise, it's not me listing it, I could never let this loose on the world! )


Finally got to the bottom of this , it was made to commemorate a visit by a TV star.


----------



## willjackson

Mantequilla said:


> Frankenwatch paradise:
> 
> originaldeal2009 | eBay


Indeed!


----------



## wolf3d

After searching a bit for Raketa 24h watches (I have finally decided to tread to this dangerous territory), I have found these hilarious frankens among many others:

















I'm sorry if these have been posted before, but I don't think I have seen them in the last 50 pages or so


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## Lokifish

Most definitely and assuredly franken. But at some point, a franken becomes an amazing and unique timepiece.

Poljot Komandirskie 3133 Chronographs


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## Ham2

Lokifish said:


> Most definitely and assuredly franken. But at some point, a franken becomes an amazing and unique timepiece. Poljot Komandirskie 3133 Chronographs


Other than the first one (paratrooper) having a questionable chrono second hand, those look to be legit Vostok/Poljot 3133 Komandirskie chronographs


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## ProperTidy

Bezel is wrong on the tankist chronograph too isn't it? Still, lovely, all of them - would love a Vostok 3133


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## mroatman

If I'm not mistake, we have here a nice Poljot 2409 17 jewels dial.....in a lovely Raketa 2209 23 jewels case.......powered by a Raketa 2609 21 jewels movement. A match made in heaven!


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## Tomas Kitas

Franken found in the net - Raketa Calendor + Copernik


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## emoscambio

I will let you guess what is the movement of this ROLEX!









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Who had guessed it right from the very first picture?


----------



## dutchassasin

I feel sorry for the poor fellow who bought this fake for $32 on ebay.


----------



## Ham2




----------



## mroatman

Ham2 said:


> View attachment 4383146


I saw this one, too. Very interesting. The Volna 'font' seems pretty accurate and the case and movement look like they at least _could_ be genuine. But ПЧЗ on the dial just above 1МЧЗ, and then ЧЧЗ on the movement (the only correct marking) is pretty funny.

Still, this dial is not new, and old fake dials always intrigue me far more than the fancy new redials. Come to think of it, the size and font of "1МЧЗ им Кирова" seems to exactly match the "little rocket" Raketa redials. Look at the "A" in Кирова. Could these have been done by the same Armenian watchmaker?


----------



## emoscambio

The Rocket RAKETA is from Bulgaria, allegedly from an Armenian guy.

Since there already were an official Wostok with rocket, an official Восток with Rocket and an official Полет with rocket, he just felt like completing the collection with his own creation!

The Volna from at least three brands (ЧЧЗ, ПЧЗ, 1МЧЗ), with mismatching hour and minute hands is just a climax!


----------



## mroatman

And here's another watch from the same "factory":


----------



## pmwas

emoscambio said:


> I will let you guess what is the movement of this ROLEX!
> 
> View attachment 3954506
> 
> 
> Who had guessed it right from the very first picture?


Oh my... with the 24K gold centering ring! The legend!
Love the dial, btw


----------



## emoscambio

mroatman said:


> And here's another watch from the same "factory":


Even the hour markers were razed off the dial!!!


----------



## Arizone

Someone else spotted these on Craigslist.
That 2 o'clock crown though...


----------



## Mantequilla

Found a frankenwatch paradise on instagram:
https://instagram.com/watchwhiledriving/
Some frankenwatches look pretty cool if you ask me, but it's the big talks that the owner does about those watches that really makes me wow. Like what he tells about his frankenwatch with fake ww2 SS redial:_ Supposedly it was taken from a dead SS Guard._ Or that Vacheron Constatin copied the world map dial of his 80's Molnija (franken)watch. Just have a look by yourself.
Not sure if this guy is that naïve, mentally challenged, plain stupid or an attention seeking insecure *curse word*. 
The first time I saw his account, I asked him if his biohazerd Molnija wristwatch was an Ukrainian converted pocket watch, which it obviously was. He said it isn't. However it looks like this guy doesn't know much more than Ukrainian ebay sellers.
I'm just surprised that people like this really exist. And the ignorant people in the comment section.. smh.


----------



## Lokifish

Arizone said:


> Someone else spotted these on Craigslist.
> That 2 o'clock crown though...


Now that 2 O'Clock mod I'd be interested in, because that's a fair bit of work to pull off.


----------



## dutchassasin

Spotted on ebay this fake dial.


----------



## emoscambio

dutchassasin said:


> Spotted on ebay this fake dial.


 Never mind, it's still a very cool movement!


----------



## mroatman

dutchassasin said:


> Spotted on ebay this fake dial.


The description states that the dial is "professionally restored". I don't mind these kinds of redials when the seller is completely transparent about them.

I wonder when the dial was restored? The paint shows notable cracking, but I guess that's not any indication of age.


----------



## Ham2

mroatman said:


> The description states that the dial is "professionally restored". I don't mind these kinds of redials when the seller is completely transparent about them. I wonder when the dial was restored? The paint shows notable cracking, but I guess that's not any indication of age.


Unfortunately the dial colour does is not right and the font is not sharp enough


----------



## mroatman

Ham2 said:


> Unfortunately the dial colour does is not right and the font is not sharp enough


Yes, I should clarify. I would never spend any significant money (for me, that's >$100) on a redial -- at least not intentionally. Even if it were exceptionally well done, which this one is not, I still would prefer to spend my money on authentic examples. (By the way, was the Космос ever produced with a matte dial? I know the Орбита was produced in both styles, but I've only ever seen the Космос with a sunburst dial.)

I guess I should have said I don't mind the _sellers_ that state the facts about these redials. I like that honestly. I still won't give them my business, but I appreciate these guys far more than the misleading, swindling sellers trying to pass off something fake as genuine.


----------



## emoscambio

Both the Kosmos and its Poljot successor are very prone to scratches. They delivered a bad quality dial coating, for a complex watch for those Soviet days...


----------



## James Haury

Is sportsmanskie!DA.


----------



## mroatman

Never seen a redial quite like this one...

Air Force POLJOT 1965 Year Chronographe 19 Jewels Cal 3017 | eBay









Chrono hands and crown are wrong, too.


----------



## mysterian

This looks like one of those newly minted re-dials that have popped up recently. 
The seller claims it to be an authentic vintage dial "USSR made" ...


----------



## OKEAH

mroatman said:


> ПЧЗ on the dial just above 1МЧЗ, and then ЧЧЗ on the movement (the only correct marking) is pretty funny.


Remarkable!

It is a collaboration between the various ЧЗ. Petrodvoretz made the upper half of the dial, Kirov (1st Moscow) made the bottom half and Chistopol made the movement. The case was made by the People.


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## mroatman

Sports in the 21st century:


----------



## Chascomm

mroatman said:


> Sports in the 21st century


Very cute. I think I like it like that.


----------



## emoscambio

mroatman said:


> Sports in the 21st century:


----------



## mroatman

emoscambio said:


> View attachment 4890442


Are you suggesting the motorcycle is original? I would bet it's a redial/reprint, along with the car. It's not in the 1960 catalog, nor is there a place of origin written at the bottom.


----------



## mroatman

Actually, after finding this second image, I'm inclined to believe it might be legitimate.









I still say the car is 100% bogus.


----------



## Chascomm

mroatman said:


> I still say the car is 100% bogus.


I agree

...but I still like it.


----------



## Luis965

mroatman said:


> Are you suggesting the motorcycle is original? I would bet it's a redial/reprint, along with the car. It's not in the 1960 catalog, nor is there a place of origin written at the bottom.


It is original, it is the most difficult to find of the three!


----------



## vintagetimepieces

I recently got this one in a batch of military watches. What is it? A chinese mock-up?
Snap-on case back but with setting sun and a number 592183. No screw down crown. Bi directional bezel no clicks. 
The compass works though:smiley:
Dies anyone recognize the movement? the watch runs very good, only a few seconds of per 24 hour.


----------



## vintagetimepieces

Oh and the bottom of the dial is signed:
3AKA3 MO CCCP


----------



## sq100

It's a chinese Vostok replica. A normal komandirskie would have a caseback with ring. The font on the dial is a clear giveaway.


----------



## WFH

The movement is the "Chinese standard movement" or Tongji.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Something not quite right here...


----------



## kev80e

Komandirskie alarm anybody.


----------



## dutchassasin

seems like they are getting quite creative lately


----------



## mroatman

Mega rare Luch crab...









https://www.etsy.com/listing/233609853/vintage-mens-ray-luch-wristwatch15j?ref=shop_home_active_10


----------



## komokino

This Poljot arrived today. What do you think?

Ignore the HMT...


----------



## heimdalg

It's ok to me.
A regular Poljot 2614.2H.


----------



## mroatman

mroatman said:


> Mega rare Luch crab...
> 
> View attachment 5391690
> 
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/233609853/vintage-mens-ray-luch-wristwatch15j?ref=shop_home_active_10


Siblings.









Kirovskie 1 MCHZ 50&apos;s Soviet Mechanical Wristwatch POLJOT 1МЧЗ Spider Crab Case | eBay


----------



## elsoldemayo

mroatman said:


> Siblings.
> 
> Kirovskie 1 MCHZ 50&apos;s Soviet Mechanical Wristwatch POLJOT 1МЧЗ Spider Crab Case | eBay


What a bargain, you even get some of the numerals TWICE!!! How could that not be a good thing :-d


----------



## NoLeftTurn

Dat printing though!


----------



## ThePossumKing

I'd want that one just because of how bad it really is


----------



## Coug76

Simply stunning. I must catch my breath...

Hastily spouted for your befuddlement


----------



## dutchassasin

If poljot and komandirskie had a baby


----------



## dutchassasin

Komandilex?


----------



## ThePossumKing

dutchassasin said:


> Komandilex?


I saw those cases on ebay. Who would pay $90 for a case with bezel, hands, crown and band and then throw a 'Dirskie movement in it? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dutchassasin

ThePossumKing said:


> I saw those cases on ebay. Who would pay $90 for a case with bezel, hands, crown and band and then throw a 'Dirskie movement in it?


There is no dirskie movement inside, only the dial. Ebay nr: 151899057801


----------



## ThePossumKing

Thats crazy. At least put a sterile dial on it and not try and pass it off as being a 'montre CCCP'...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dutchassasin

Poljot 3133 with luminescent dial. Not original but cool nonetheless.


----------



## elsoldemayo

So so so colourful.


----------



## weodmonath

Ooooh! A Luchirova! I must get one...


----------



## mroatman

Clearly wrong, but I still love it.

Vintage Luch Airplane


----------



## Ham2

A very 'unique' Poljot Amphibian.


----------



## anabuki

Lady Frankenstein... ;-)


----------



## Coug76

Ham2 said:


> A very 'unique' Poljot Amphibian.
> View attachment 6730042
> View attachment 6730050
> View attachment 6730058


I love me some snap-on back and gasket free dive watches... 

Hastily spouted for your befuddlement


----------



## emoscambio

Coug76 said:


> I love me some snap-on back and gasket free dive watches...  Hastily spouted for your befuddlement


 For diving into an Ikea ball pit, it is pretty well sealed...


----------



## mroatman

Peaceful diver:

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/222051483307


----------



## elsoldemayo

Saw this on ebay.









But what you may ask is a fake Rolex doing in the Russian Franken thread??? Look what lurks inside. That poor poor 3133 :-(


----------



## ThePossumKing

elsoldemayo said:


> Saw this on ebay.
> 
> View attachment 7450082
> 
> 
> But what you may ask is a fake Rolex doing in the Russian Franken thread??? Look what lurks inside. That poor poor 3133 :-(
> 
> View attachment 7450090


But do the screw down chronograph pushers work? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## svorkoetter

I wonder what the 6 o'clock subdial does?


----------



## Chascomm

svorkoetter said:


> I wonder what the 6 o'clock subdial does?


It laughs at you whenever you look at it.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Interesting combo. Thankfully the dial is a fake or this would be a criminal waste of a dial.


----------



## mroatman

elsoldemayo said:


> Interesting combo. Thankfully the dial is a fake or this would be a criminal waste of a dial.


Ahh, I missed this thread....


----------



## BevoWatch

_These two Frankenwatch belong here. They're both beautifully executed little monsters. 
Now, this is only my personal opinion and in no way endorsing these watches for someone else to buy nor have I ever posted the seller/creator on any thread. 
They're Frankenwatches, undesired by the purists.

I just happen to like them both. 
They work, fit nicely and comfortably on my wrist and tell excellent accurate time. They look great to me and are affordable.
I've had many compliments with multiple pm asking as to where I got them 
But from now on any other inquiries will be ignored as not to be considered a pimp for the creator/seller/artisan of these Frankenwatches. 
Don't let my pictures mislead you to want one as they are only Frankenwatches. 
Despite their quality, they're only Frankenwatches.

70's Edition Vostok Frankendirskies.........



































































































Again, just a couple of Frankenwatches.
b-)​_


----------



## BevoWatch

_Since it works very well and its comfortable, might as well wear it. 
I'm just a sucker what can I say?

*70's Edition Frankendirskie*

















b-)​_


----------



## schnurrp

We've all been there. It's good that they are working well but you're right, buying these just encourages the appearance of more. 

Nice pictures!


----------



## schnurrp

Unfortunate waste of a rare (in that condition) dial that most probably had to have its feet removed to "fit" that movement:


----------



## stadiou

Whoever did this needs hanging from a barbed wire noose....I can't find a nice dialled example at all.


----------



## ThePossumKing

schnurrp said:


> We've all been there. It's good that they are working well but you're right, buying these just encourages the appearance of more.
> 
> Nice pictures!


Exactly. More and more, I'm seeing original watches that were destroyed with reprinted/repainted dials and Chinese versions of Amphibia hands being offered on eBay. I'd rather have a worn original

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BevoWatch

With the couple that I have I'll just have to see them as recycled watches with parts from original watches that otherwise would be thrown away. Now they are back to working and doing what it was made to do, tell time. At least they didn't look so terrible.


----------



## schnurrp

BevoWatch said:


> With the couple that I have I'll just have to see them as recycled watches with parts from original watches that otherwise would be thrown away. Now they are back to working and doing what it was made to do, tell time. At least they didn't look so terrible.


That would be fine if the seller described them as: " Recycled watches with parts from original watches that otherwise would be thrown away. Now they are back to working and doing what it was made to do, tell time."

But of course they don't, instead describing them as "very rare", "authentic", "military", etc., making it hard to buy a really authentic piece.


----------



## BevoWatch

schnurrp said:


> That would be fine if the seller described them as: " Recycled watches with parts from original watches that otherwise would be thrown away. Now they are back to working and doing what it was made to do, tell time."
> 
> But of course they don't, instead describing them as "very rare", "authentic", "military", etc., making it hard to buy a really authentic piece.


Very true and I understand what you mean, it's deceptive and should not be condoned. It's just a shame really because the watches are legit beauties in my honest opinion. The creator is quite talented. I toss my purchases to experiences in watch collecting. Now that my curiosity is fulfilled I'm moving on. However as long as the watches are telling me excellent time, I might as well wear them and enjoy them. They're just a couple of frankenbeauties.


----------



## schnurrp

BevoWatch said:


> With the couple that I have I'll just have to see them as recycled watches with parts from original watches that otherwise would be thrown away. Now they are back to working and doing what it was made to do, tell time. At least they didn't look so terrible.


Sorry, double post.


----------



## schnurrp

BevoWatch said:


> Very true and I understand what you mean, it's deceptive and should not be condoned. It's just a shame really because the watches are legit beauties in my honest opinion. The creator is quite talented. I toss my purchases to experiences in watch collecting. Now that my curiosity is fulfilled I'm moving on. However as long as the watches are telling me excellent time, I might as well wear them and enjoy them. They're just a couple of frankenbeauties.


I have to admit a good running watch is nice to find regardless of authenticity or value as a collectible. Also your good running frankens may end up as parts watches to restore a nice authentic one of the same movement that needs a movement or case, etc. transplant to make it whole.


----------



## schnurrp

Raketa "Big Twelve":


----------



## mroatman

schnurrp said:


> Raketa "Big Twelve":


I'd call it an Atomic Dozen...


----------



## stadiou

schnurrp said:


> Raketa "Big Twelve":
> 
> View attachment 8243226


Doesn't look too bad by the standards of many frankens.


----------



## schnurrp

Quite a departure for me but I think this dial actually looks as good or better than the original Raketa automatic dial that I think is a bit boring. Second hand is a little short.

















Works with the back well, imho:









My hand-winder with authentic case and movement, I believe, and correct second hand:















Pictured here in 1985 catalog:


----------



## SinanjuStein

schnurrp said:


> Quite a departure for me but I think this dial actually looks as good or better than the original Raketa automatic dial that I think is a bit boring. Second hand is a little short.
> 
> View attachment 8275674
> 
> 
> Works with the back well, imho:
> 
> My hand-winder with authentic case and movement, I believe, and correct second hand:
> 
> Pictured here in 1985 catalog:


Besides the seconds hand they did a pretty good job, 2627 dials are a bit bland but sometimes simple is good.

From my experience these wear really nice if you notch down a 20mm strap.


----------



## GearHeadDreaming

The face reminds me of a concentration camp fence!


----------



## GearHeadDreaming

Not a bad looking mutt.


----------



## GearHeadDreaming

View attachment 8321418


View attachment 8321426


Not a bad looking mutt.


----------



## Dimy

thoughts about this one : Chronographic Watch Military POLJOT | eBay ?


----------



## GearHeadDreaming

real 3017. that movement photo is sketchy. Why the screenshots? Seller does have good feedback. Looms franken. Especially the crowns.

His photo.


----------



## mroatman

Clearly a fantasy watch made from a Molnija 3017.


----------



## schnurrp

mroatman said:


> Clearly a fantasy watch made from a Molnija 3017.


Molnija?


----------



## Straight_time

I think Dashiell is right. Look at the caseback and the pushers, it must be one of those semi-industrial cases to convert Molnija 3017 pocket watckes into wristwatches, with a fantasy dial as a bonus. :roll:

















Hands look correct (altough some of them repainted in red), so sourcing an authentic Molnija dial should bring it back to its (almost) original appearence.


----------



## schnurrp

Straight_time said:


> I think Dashiell is right. Look at the caseback and the pushers, it must be one of those semi-industrial cases to convert Molnija 3017 pocket watckes into wristwatches, with a fantasy dial as a bonus. :roll:
> 
> View attachment 8469754
> 
> 
> View attachment 8469762
> 
> 
> Hands look correct (altough some of them repainted in red), so sourcing an authentic Molnija dial should bring it back to its (almost) original appearence.


Okay.


----------



## mroatman

schnurrp said:


> Molnija?


Originally something like this (or with gilt hands):


----------



## mroatman




----------



## tuanbo91

Hi,

Should I pull the trigger for this, it's not famous Okeah but quite nice 3313, Am not sure if real USSR watch or modern one, local seller asking for 250$


----------



## Dimy

Looks legit to me. It has tiny USSR on the dial on 6 o'clock and also the SU stamped on the bridge.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Interesting...


----------



## slls

creative...


----------



## stadiou

I'm sure I've seen that one before - another Ukrainian e-bay special ?


----------



## elsoldemayo

stadiou said:


> I'm sure I've seen that one before - another Ukrainian e-bay special ?


I can't recall if it was Ukrainian, but yep, spotted on ebay.


----------



## Sergey77

elsoldemayo said:


> Interesting...
> 
> View attachment 8704914


Not very sure about dial, but case and hands are not original one.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sergey77

OMG 😂 missed the point of the topic. Sorry guys. My first post.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk


----------



## mroatman

Sergey77 said:


> OMG  missed the point of the topic. Sorry guys. My first post.


Yep, definitely nothing original about that watch. But good eye! And welcome to the forums!


----------



## elsoldemayo

Sergey77 said:


> Not very sure about dial, but case and hands are not original one.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk


Welcome to the forum and just for completeness, the dial is a modern reproduction. Easy to spot because the latitude lines don't go to the edge of the globe and the continents lack detail.


----------



## schnurrp

elsoldemayo said:


> Welcome to the forum and just for completeness, the dial is a modern reproduction. Easy to spot because the latitude lines don't go to the edge of the globe and the continents lack detail.


Also North Pole longitude lines don't meet.


----------



## mroatman

schnurrp said:


> Also North Pole longitude lines don't meet.


Also Severnaya Zemlya has disappeared (my preferred method of distinguishing fakes).


----------



## haejuk

The dial is merely from an alternate timeline where Sputnik has happened but Severnaya Zemlya has yet to be discovered.


----------



## Straight_time

o|


----------



## Dimy




----------



## elsoldemayo

Dimy said:


> View attachment 8799962


Spotted that one on ebay. Seems a terrible waste of a 3017 movement to pair it with that fantasy dial.


----------



## kev80e

At least this seller admits it's a "handmade " dial . A Raketa Scuba dude. Almost tempted just for the novelty to transplant the dial into a vostok case. Maybe not.


----------



## stadiou

Ho hum... waterproof it is not, but more pertinently what is a 2614 doing with a 2628 bridge ?


----------



## Dimy




----------



## schnurrp

The Doctor shows some restraint (or should this be in the "Poll: Custom Vostok Hands anyone?" thread).


----------



## maguirejp

This one from the Ukraine caught my eye on The Bay last year. It works just fine, it gets a lot of attention and is probably worthy of some kind of Franken award. Cheers


----------



## mroatman

maguirejp said:


> This one from the Ukraine caught my eye on The Bay last year. It works just fine, it gets a lot of attention and is probably worthy of some kind of Franken award. Cheers


It didn't happen to come from bargain.watch, did it?

There seem to be a lot of award-worthy watches there...


----------



## maguirejp

mroatman said:


> It didn't happen to come from bargain.watch, did it?
> 
> There seem to be a lot of award-worthy watches there...


No, it wasn't bargain watch, I don't recall the sellers name right now. I asked him if he could make me two more for my sons, but he never got back to me. I paid just under $70 US, I knew it ws Franken but I liked it.
cheers.


----------



## mroatman

maguirejp said:


> No, it wasn't bargain watch, I don't recall the sellers name right now. I asked him if he could make me two more for my sons, but he never got back to me. I paid just under $70 US, I knew it ws Franken but I liked it.
> cheers.


I'm guessing it's an old Molnija conversion? I like how the lugs are attached. It looks like the perfect size on your wrist. Enjoy it


----------



## schnurrp

maguirejp said:


> This one from the Ukraine caught my eye on The Bay last year. It works just fine, it gets a lot of attention and is probably worthy of some kind of Franken award. Cheers
> View attachment 8942762


I have never seen a dial like that. If my eyes aren't deceiving me the dial is upside down but the numerals are oriented properly. That one would take some time to learn how to read. There are plenty of "pilot" watches out there both authentic and inauthentic with a traditionally orientated "Laco"-style dial that look very similar. Here's one with an authentic-looking vintage Molnija case:


----------



## maguirejp

A Fraken indeed. I like the one you have displayed. Cheers!



schnurrp said:


> I have never seen a dial like that. If my eyes aren't deceiving me the dial is upside down but the numerals are oriented properly. That one would take some time to learn how to read. There are plenty of "pilot" watches out there both authentic and inauthentic with a traditionally orientated "Laco"-style dial that look very similar. Here's one with an authentic-looking vintage Molnija case:
> 
> The upside down dial with numbers properly orientated was what caught my eye. I have not opened up the case but the ebay advert. claimed a Molnija movement. I just found the whole package to be pleasing to my eye so I bought it. Cheers
> 
> View attachment 8958618


----------



## Dimy

schnurrp said:


> I have never seen a dial like that. If my eyes aren't deceiving me the dial is upside down but the numerals are oriented properly. That one would take some time to learn how to read. There are plenty of "pilot" watches out there both authentic and inauthentic with a traditionally orientated "Laco"-style dial that look very similar. Here's one with an authentic-looking vintage Molnija case:
> 
> View attachment 8958618


So it is actually a frankenstiened franken watch. The boss of all franken watches.


----------



## 12toneman

Recipe list:

444 dial from Meranom, 
hands from another Amphibia, 
case from comrade ThePossumKing, 
movement from donor, 
replacement mainspring from another donor,
movement spacer ring from comrade willjackson


----------



## Rimmed762

You forgot to describe the watch as a 'rare, military, Soviet, NOS'. Sorry, no bonus. You failed the test of Frankenmeister.


----------



## ThePossumKing

12toneman said:


> Recipe list:
> 
> 444 dial from Meranom,
> hands from another Amphibia,
> case from comrade ThePossumKing,
> movement from donor,
> replacement mainspring from another donor,
> movement spacer ring from comrade willjackson
> View attachment 8970521


But there is the rub...I am someone who would never consider this to be a 'franken'...'Franken' is a dirty word in my book

It is assembled from all Vostok parts of the same vintage
It is a model that was released by the factory
It is not trying to be anything that it is clearly not. 
There is no fantasy dial or any cheap reprint of a rare dial. 
There is no reclaimed movement stuffed in a shabby case of unknown origin

It is exactly like my '72 Pontiac Grand Prix SSJ. When the original 455 threw a rod through the block, I replaced the block with an identical Pontiac 455 block, the crankshaft with an identical 455 Pontiac crankshaft, and the rods and pistons with aftermarket rods and pistons that still were of the original factory design. I don't think that those repairs took away from the originality of the car or decreased it's value in any way.

This watch is no franken, 12tone...it is, at worst, a 'mod'


----------



## 12toneman

ThePossumKing said:


> This watch is no franken, 12tone...it is, at worst, a 'mod'


*head hanging in shame*


----------



## Coug76

12toneman said:


> Recipe list:
> 
> 444 dial from Meranom,
> hands from another Amphibia,
> case from comrade ThePossumKing,
> movement from donor,
> replacement mainspring from another donor,
> movement spacer ring from comrade willjackson
> View attachment 8970521


The only thing wrong there is the komandirske bezel. I just don't care for that bezel though. Hope you enjoy it.

Hastily spouted for your befuddlement


----------



## 12toneman

Coug76 said:


> The only thing wrong there is the komandirske bezel....


Also, the movement is a 2414.


----------



## schnurrp

This is the definition I use:

A watch is a franken if it did not, at some point, cross the threshold of one of the recognized Russian watch factories in its present form.*

This rather severe definition is often modified to excuse the replacement of common wear parts such as crowns and crystals.


*This is often difficult to establish leading to endless discussion and arguments back and forth.


----------



## Rimmed762

I think your definition is right. But since frankenizing has a bad reputation, there should be another words for mods and customs which currently fits into this definition.


----------



## ThePossumKing

schnurrp said:


> This is the definition I use:
> 
> A watch is a franken if it did not, at some point, cross the threshold of one of the recognized Russian watch factories in its present form.*
> 
> This rather severe definition is often modified to excuse the replacement of common wear parts such as crowns and crystals.
> 
> *This is often difficult to establish leading to endless discussion and arguments back and forth.


Great Googlie Mooglie! That is one harsh definition!

By that definition, I am definitely a franken, because I certainly did not cross the threshold of the factory in my present form...

*hangs head and heads to dark room to reevaluate life*

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Coug76

ThePossumKing said:


> Great Googlie Mooglie! That is one harsh definition!
> 
> By that definition, I am definitely a franken, because I certainly did not cross the threshold of the factory in my present form...
> 
> *hangs head and heads to dark room to reevaluate life*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great honk! It's a Frankenpossum!


----------



## schnurrp

ThePossumKing said:


> Great Googlie Mooglie! That is one harsh definition!
> 
> By that definition, I am definitely a franken, because I certainly did not cross the threshold of the factory in my present form...
> 
> *hangs head and heads to dark room to reevaluate life*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know if I would have admitted that, comrade. Since no catalog exists disproving your authenticity you probably could have gotten away with claiming to be a real ThePossumKing!


----------



## schnurrp

Rimmed762 said:


> I think your definition is right. But since frankenizing has a bad reputation, there should be another words for mods and customs which currently fits into this definition.


I would add that "franken" only has meaning for me when a watch is being presented as an authentic product of a soviet/Russian watch factory. I have no problem with changes, mods, etc. done as long as the resulting product is not represented as being an authentic product of a soviet/Russian watch factory.


----------



## Rimmed762

I hate to do this, but...

+1


----------



## Jaded Albion

How franken is my favorite watch/daily wearer? Just for the record, I would not knowingly buy franken, this was a drunk purchase (it looked like a vostok...) from almost a year ago that just happened to work very very well. At any rate, though, as far as I can tell, the dial/case/hands/crown all match, I know the bezel is wrong, when I bought it, it had a flimsy little domed acrylic crystal that has since been replaced with a 300m Amphibia crystal. And for the movement...I don't really know how to tell for sure, but I suspect this is a post soviet era replacement?

How I bought it:








The movement









How it looks now:









Regardless I still love it, I just want more educated input.

Thanks!
Jenna


----------



## Jaded Albion

How franken is my favorite watch/daily wearer? Just for the record, I would not knowingly buy franken, this was a drunk purchase (it looked like a vostok...) from almost a year ago that just happened to work very very well. At any rate, though, as far as I can tell, the dial/case/hands/crown all match, I know the bezel is wrong, when I bought it, it had a flimsy little domed acrylic crystal that has since been replaced with a 300m Amphibia crystal. And for the movement...I don't really know how to tell for sure, but I suspect this is a post soviet era replacement?

How I bought it:

View attachment 9012689

The movement

View attachment 9012729


How it looks now:

View attachment 9012713


Regardless I still love it, I just want more educated input.

Thanks!
Jenna


----------



## ThePossumKing

Jaded Albion said:


> How franken is my favorite watch/daily wearer? Just for the record, I would not knowingly buy franken, this was a drunk purchase (it looked like a vostok...) from almost a year ago that just happened to work very very well. At any rate, though, as far as I can tell, the dial/case/hands/crown all match, I know the bezel is wrong, when I bought it, it had a flimsy little domed acrylic crystal that has since been replaced with a 300m Amphibia crystal. And for the movement...I don't really know how to tell for sure, but I suspect this is a post soviet era replacement?
> 
> How I bought it:
> 
> View attachment 9012689
> 
> The movement
> 
> View attachment 9012729
> 
> 
> How it looks now:
> 
> View attachment 9012713
> 
> 
> Regardless I still love it, I just want more educated input.
> 
> Thanks!
> Jenna


That all looks legit to me, except for the bezel, like you said. I think the bezel is from a later model

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## S.H.

The movement looks OK to me, I have the exact same finish on mines (late CCCP antimagnetic)


----------



## Unsolved_Mistry

This is all kind of ironic, a thread on frankens, sometimes ridiculing them and then we have a mods thread where people put Seiko bezels on vostoks! I like some frankens as the look is sometimes nice.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk


----------



## elsoldemayo

Unsolved_Mistry said:


> This is all kind of ironic, a thread on frankens, sometimes ridiculing them and then we have a mods thread where people put Seiko bezels on vostoks! I like some frankens as the look is sometimes nice.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk


No one here has any problem with modded watches, but if someone tries to pass a modded / assembled from spare parts watch off as a super-rare military watch etc. then it deserves to be highlighted and ridiculed which is the main point of this thread.
For watches where there's doubt the "is this genuine" thread is a font of expertise.


----------



## redwrwf

It looks as though someone has used a felt pen to draw on the details


----------



## schnurrp

redwrwf said:


> View attachment 9034745
> 
> 
> It looks as though someone has used a felt pen to draw on the details


Yes, and also needs a dictionary or maybe this was a competition held in the mythical land of Moskow and for injured athletes only.


----------



## schnurrp

.


----------



## mroatman

redwrwf said:


> View attachment 9034745
> 
> 
> It looks as though someone has used a felt pen to draw on the details


I gotta say, if somebody drew all these details with a felt pen, that's pretty impressive.


----------



## redwrwf

I know I JUST posted one yesterday but I saw this one today and thought you guys might get a laugh out of it


----------



## mroatman

redwrwf said:


> I know I JUST posted one yesterday but I saw this one today and thought you guys might get a laugh out of it


I think the second hand is replaced.


----------



## mroatman

.


----------



## ThePossumKing

mroatman said:


> I think the second hand is replaced.


And 'Red October' is not spelled 'Nautilus'...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Coug76

mroatman said:


> I think the second hand is replaced.


The crown is wrong for the time period as well.

Hastily spouted for your befuddlement


----------



## dutchassasin

Careful this 300m vostok is not what it seems to be. Some guy in Russia is making replica's!
VOSTOK amphibian military diver USSR. | eBay


----------



## sonics

What is wrong with it? Only bezel and caseback i think? 

Gesendet von meinem SM-G935F mit Tapatalk


----------



## dutchassasin

sonics said:


> What is wrong with it? Only bezel and caseback i think?
> 
> Gesendet von meinem SM-G935F mit Tapatalk


Dial is suspicious too. The black paint used looks off compared to other examples found online. Its not smooth and almost looks textured.

On watch.ru forums somebody mentioned making 300m hommages more true to the original than the forum re-issue. He has these dials.


----------



## Arizone

dutchassasin said:


> Careful this 300m vostok is not what it seems to be. Some guy in Russia is making replica's!
> VOSTOK amphibian military diver USSR. | eBay


Oh dear. I recently learned about this replica/homage project and the team behind it, but I did not think this confusion would occur. I think it's well-intentioned based on their page about restoring watches, including this one. It's hard to make it through the Google translations and lack of information, but you can see the dial and hands have been relumed, along with the new steel bezel (reportedly made by pers), new crystal, and for whatever reason this poor-looking titanium(?) caseback. Everything else I presume is original, so really the listing isn't lying, it's just a bit misleading to those not in-the-know. This restoration presumably served as prototyping for the project watches' parts.

The 10 project watches are built ground-up and have unique and numbered casebacks, specifically mentioned to avoid legal trouble. You can see the two side by side here, and more of the project units below.


























I believe currently they are working on a titanium Kirovskie K-43, similar to the project posted here, and eventually maybe a Vostok Compressor. I attempted to express interest for the lot of us, because I know how many here would love to participate in some of these.


----------



## dutchassasin

Thanks Arizon for clarification. I just posted it as a heads up so nobody gets suckered in thinking they bought an original 300m. 
I didnt know they were using original relumed dials. You cant be careful enough these days with all those reproduction dials hitting the market.


----------



## Arizone

dutchassasin said:


> Thanks Arizon for clarification. I just posted it as a heads up so nobody gets suckered in thinking they bought an original 300m.
> I didnt know they were using original relumed dials. You cant be careful enough these days with all those reproduction dials hitting the market.


Actually looking at the dial again in the photo below and the inconsistent white minute indices makes me now think otherwise completely. The watch is indeed a prototype for the project but I cannot determine to what extent it was manufactured versus restored, if at all, especially without closer photos or clearer information. They also posted photos of a third watch, what looks like an original 300m, and perhaps that was what they referenced for dimensions and details, and then transferred that into this one they're selling off, although that one has square lugs and the back is entirely different. The hands and crown seem to be the only things with obvious wear from age but could have been sourced from another watch too.


----------



## sonics

Even if they are not genuine they look much better than our brown meranom Edition 

Gesendet von meinem SM-G935F mit Tapatalk


----------



## coupeborgward

that is a beauty









http://m.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Artis...Watch-Part-or-Repair-/171500489135?nav=SEARCH


----------



## kev80e

They sure do get inventive


----------



## mroatman

kev80e said:


> They sure do get inventive


Ha! The first quartz resonator for the blind... 🙈


----------



## Lokifish

A couple "rare" "vintage" gems for you.


----------



## ThePossumKing

coupeborgward said:


> that is a beauty
> 
> View attachment 10659570
> 
> 
> Amazing Artistic Red Blue Face Foreign Raketa USSR Vintage Watch Part or Repair | eBay


Ha! I cannot believe that that watch is still listed. I first saw it over a year ago, and the price hasn't budged.

Some people just don't know when to cut their losses...


----------



## scouser

coupeborgward said:


> that is a beauty
> 
> View attachment 10659570
> 
> 
> Amazing Artistic Red Blue Face Foreign Raketa USSR Vintage Watch Part or Repair | eBay


Does it come with a set of darts.......?


----------



## sonics

Radio room without ankor??? It must be a fake!  

Gesendet von meinem SM-G935F mit Tapatalk


----------



## Bauta




----------



## Chascomm

Bauta said:


> View attachment 11577498


I love how the upside-down 30 is in shadow, but there's no helping the grainy dial.


----------



## mariomart

Bauta said:


> View attachment 11577498


Now let's see ... inkjet printed dial ... rubbed out upside down 30 on bezel ... upside down 5 on the 50 on the bezel ... it's a winner


----------



## Tarquin

Bauta said:


> View attachment 11577498


WOW.


----------



## herdingwetcats

The "Amazing Artist" (pg 124, 123) watch was on eBay long before I joined WUS! Reminds me of a job I had printing signs for J.C. Penney, ages ago. I protested to boss that many signs said "Quality" before naming the particular product: "Quality Socks" or whatever, and this was a lie since the store sold junk. He merrily replied I was wrong, as the signs didn't say what kind of quality! So I do agree this watch was modded by an amazing artist, perhaps even a shocking one, LOL! Is there a prize for "the watch that's been unsold the longest on fleabay" BTW? My herd sez there thould be!


----------



## Lokifish

mariomart said:


> Now let's see ... inkjet printed dial


My drafts don't even look that bad and I have a couple year old cheap all-in-one. My vote is for dot matrix printed dial.


----------



## mariomart

Lokifish said:


> My drafts don't even look that bad and I have a couple year old cheap all-in-one. My vote is for dot matrix printed dial.


----------



## Bauta

mariomart said:


> View attachment 11610514


So it is a pre-soviet scuba dude?


----------



## Neruda

How does Misha, the bear, from the 1980 Moscow Olympics find its way onto this otherwise apparently genuine watch? Just wondering....


----------



## bpmurray

Neruda said:


> How does Misha, the bear, from the 1980 Moscow Olympics find its way onto this otherwise apparently genuine watch? Just wondering....


Comrade watchmaker have a bit too much the night before?


----------



## mariomart

A new generation of Komandirskie frankens has arrived .....


----------



## Dave_Hedgehog

Green and blue Big Zeros?


----------



## mike.s

An aborted idea from "Madagascar VI, the penguins as polar bear byproduct" a Mosfilm mocumentary".


----------



## Neruda

Every Soviet watch should have a red star, right?


----------



## bpmurray




----------



## Chascomm

Ew! Poljot did once release a Gagarin Shturmanskie homage Signal. This is _not_ it.


----------



## bpmurray

Mashup!


----------



## dutchassasin

bpmurray said:


> Mashup!


Legit model


----------



## mike.s

Baby got text...


----------



## dutchassasin

Uhmm this strela is quite interesting. How are the small hands even attached when there is a non chrono movement fitted?
SEKONDA CHRONOGRAPH POLJOT STRELA SOVIET COSMONAUT WATCH | eBay


----------



## mroatman

dutchassasin said:


> Uhmm this strela is quite interesting. How are the small hands even attached when there is a non chrono movement fitted?
> SEKONDA CHRONOGRAPH POLJOT STRELA SOVIET COSMONAUT WATCH | eBay


Glue?

What a sad fate for such a beautiful watch.


----------



## mike.s

Love me that oversized second hand...


----------



## Dave_Hedgehog

mike.s said:


> Love me that oversized second hand...


To be fair, looks more like an undersized subdial.


----------



## mike.s

Among other things, but the minute chrono counter hand fits within a circle. I mean, I just love the care with which these are put together (if they are pt together, that is).


----------



## mroatman

To be fair(er), I think the tiny second hand is the only replaced part on this watch, so not really what I would call a franken...









According to Polmax: "This new sporty style dial was matched with the square case, and briefly produced with a 'Made in USSR' version of the dial prior to the break up of the Soviet Union. The rotating bezel was also a fairly new design, and although presumably made for this particular chronograph, it was sometimes matched with other dial types in the square casing."


----------



## Uazhunter

Neruda said:


> Every Soviet watch should have a red star, right?
> 
> View attachment 11643898


Terrifying...


----------



## mike.s

mroatman said:


> To be fair(er), I think the tiny second hand is the only replaced part on this watch, so not really what I would call a franken...


True, that. It just accentuates the tiny subdials of this dial so much... But probably should not be called a Franken... more of a village idiot with one hand bitten off by wolves?


----------



## mariomart

Yep, looks legit |>

I'm loving the seamless transition from the chapter ring to the dial, you have to squint really hard to see it :-!

USSR Vintage Vostok Komandirskije Amphibian 2209 17 Jewels1980 date


----------



## elsoldemayo

Another interesting ebay offering.


----------



## bpmurray

For the pilot on a budget:


----------



## Neruda

I think the brother of your pilot had this one:


----------



## schnurrp

mroatman said:


> To be fair(er), I think the tiny second hand is the only replaced part on this watch, so not really what I would call a franken...


I have to agree. When I saw that I was thinking that is the mildest "franken" I've ever seen.

That chrono did have special sub-dial hands because the sub-dials were noticeably smaller than previous 3133s. The original second hand must have gotten lost so a standard 3133 second hand was substituted. A little careful work with a nail clipper would have solved the length problem.


----------



## Chascomm

Neruda said:


> I think the brother of your pilot had this one:
> View attachment 12609017


For the Roman air force perhaps?


----------



## Bauta




----------



## ned-ludd

Seen just now on the bay. I'm pretty sure this is wrong in several ways.


----------



## Bauta

This one is nice


----------



## pmwas

Here's a very nice Russian franken of mine 
Yes, a nice franken for a change 









https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/one-my-favorite-frankens-4614079.html


----------



## jose-CostaRica

Bauta said:


> This one is nice


Geezus!!! That made my night 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Enviado desde Costa Rica


----------



## mroatman

This isn't really a franken, but worth sharing anyway. I will give them credit for creativity in the absence of a Cyrillic keyboard.

I present: The Komahgupckue ?









https://www.ebay.com/itm/rare-soviet-ussr-watch-poljot-komandirskie-17-jewels-steel-284/362226452358


----------



## mariomart

mroatman said:


> .... I present: The Komahgupckue


They should have called it the "Covfefe" as it would probably generate more sales


----------



## Confuse-a-cat

mroatman said:


> This isn't really a franken, but worth sharing anyway. I will give them credit for creativity in the absence of a Cyrillic keyboard.
> 
> I present: The Komahgupckue 朗
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OHHH I must have it.....It's...IT's #9 of 500


----------



## mariomart

View attachment 12874021


----------



## ThePossumKing

mariomart said:


> View attachment 12874021


I actually really want that one...


----------



## Cafe Latte

I think my eyes have gone blotchy.
Chris


----------



## Chascomm

mariomart said:


> View attachment 12874021


I'm seeing a panda about to sumo wrestle an orca. :think:


----------



## thewatchadude

Better be careful with jokes on that one... here's the owner:

View attachment 12880083


----------



## Kye752

This seems about right :-!


----------



## ill-phill

This is just :-s

https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/poljot-chronograph-cal.-2628h-(b3167)-966803408


----------



## mariomart

ill-phill said:


> This is just :-s
> 
> https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/poljot-chronograph-cal.-2628h-(b3167)-966803408


Hmmm


----------



## jamesnorrisuk

mariomart said:


> View attachment 12874021


In a weird way I do quite like that... if they hadn't bothered with the date window it would look like a Jackson Pollack art watch, just like the BMW art cars!


----------



## Kamburov

I like the attention to detail - the hour marking dot at 3 o,clock is slightly more pronounced than the minute dots.


----------



## pascal_cl

ill-phill said:


> My contestant and personal favorite
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings
> Phil


Maybe it's a colaboration ))))


----------



## MDNTRDR

Black dial with brown strap (only on a Vostok)






and a sweetheart of a watch


----------



## Kye752

MDNTRDR said:


> Black dial with brown strap (only on a Vostok)
> View attachment 12934483
> and a sweetheart of a watch


How is this franken?


----------



## Arizone

Right, "marriage" watch.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Breitling-A...omatik-Bidynator-25-J-Swiss-Made/222866563950


----------



## mroatman

Does this count as a franken?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/poljot-strela-chronograph-kaliber-3017-mit-schaltrad/132534266888


----------



## S.H.

I saw this one : I'd say a 3017 recased with venus case and dial?


----------



## mroatman

S.H. said:


> I saw this one : I'd say a 3017 recased with venus case and dial?


Ah, I hadn't thought of that. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## MDNTRDR

Beat up case fresh bezel and case back


----------



## MDNTRDR

But runs awesomely haven’t timed it out completely but power reserve over 40 hours


----------



## MDNTRDR

And changed to a strap that matches the face


----------



## system11

Ugh.


----------



## Tonystix

Good Lord!


----------



## system11

The best part is the case seems to be steel, and I think they've painted the front half to make it look like the normal black Copernicus you see thousands of.


----------



## Kamburov

The hand painted erotica always gets me exited  Parental guidance warning 18+


----------



## Neruda

By the looks of it, a fully authentic Hong Kong komandirskie - but you've just got to love that second hand!


----------



## audiomagnate

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Poljot-Avi...rentrq:914cdb4b1620ad78daa1db5bfffee006|iid:1

We have *"*Great condition, new leather strap, calendar. Poljot Aviator watch. Original poljot movement*" *The description states "Date produced: 1980's", but it's also listed as "New with tags." Also, is that a display back or is the "still back" not shown? Later the manufacture date is listed as 1970-1979. Why don't these sellers just clearly state they are selling new watches with old movements?


----------



## elsoldemayo

A Raketa/Poljot marriage?


----------



## audiomagnate

I got frankened. I did my research on 2612 alarms after pulling the trigger, which is never a good idea. Here's my summation, the experts can correct me or add to my guesses. The dial is new and wrong for the indiced inside bezel which appears to be original, and it looks like a four year old painted the gold hands black. I'm guessing what they are doing here is changing a relatively unmarketable dress watch (see catalog pic) into something more casual, and I fell for it. I don't want to wear this "tainted" watch now, even though it keeps great time and buzzes as it should, so, should I attempt to "unfranken" it, return it to the Ukraine, or live with my mistake? I paid just under $50 including shipping and don't know what's involved in a return across international borders.


----------



## Patski

I had to put this one up....


----------



## stadiou

audiomagnate said:


> I got frankened. I did my research on 2612 alarms after pulling the trigger, which is never a good idea. Here's my summation, the experts can correct me or add to my guesses. The dial is new and wrong for the indiced inside bezel which appears to be original, and it looks like a four year old painted the gold hands black. I'm guessing what they are doing here is changing a relatively unmarketable dress watch (see catalog pic) into something more casual, and I fell for it. I don't want to wear this "tainted" watch now, even though it keeps great time and buzzes as it should, so, should I attempt to "unfranken" it, return it to the Ukraine, or live with my mistake? I paid just under $50 including shipping and don't know what's involved in a return across international borders.


I don't think it's that bad really, the dial is okay with the bezel. It should have the dial shown below to be correct but I have encountered a lot worse.


----------



## stadiou

audiomagnate said:


> I got frankened. I did my research on 2612 alarms after pulling the trigger, which is never a good idea. Here's my summation, the experts can correct me or add to my guesses. The dial is new and wrong for the indiced inside bezel which appears to be original, and it looks like a four year old painted the gold hands black. I'm guessing what they are doing here is changing a relatively unmarketable dress watch (see catalog pic) into something more casual, and I fell for it. I don't want to wear this "tainted" watch now, even though it keeps great time and buzzes as it should, so, should I attempt to "unfranken" it, return it to the Ukraine, or live with my mistake? I paid just under $50 including shipping and don't know what's involved in a return across international borders.


I don't think it's that bad really, the dial is okay with the bezel. It should have the dial shown below to be correct but I have encountered a lot worse.


----------



## Bossie

The one from a few pages back looks like a new interpretation of the panda dial


----------



## audiomagnate

QUOTE: "I don't think it's that bad really, the dial is okay with the bezel. It should have the dial shown below to be correct but I have encountered a lot worse."

Oh I agree. It's a tasteful franken.


----------



## jfslater98

I love the idea of putting a rolex movement in one of these, lol. Is that even possible? Certainly not on my budget, but makes me laugh to think about it.


----------



## les

True or false?


----------



## mroatman

Long live Russia! Screw the rest of the world! Sink into the ocean for all I care!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RUSSIAN-ME...392845?hash=item441e60224d:g:YGEAAOSwWHZa~VEf


----------



## joecool

mroatman said:


> Long live Russia! Screw the rest of the world! Sink into the ocean for all I care!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RUSSIAN-ME...392845?hash=item441e60224d:g:YGEAAOSwWHZa~VEf
> 
> View attachment 13143845


Damn global warming!


----------



## Horloge17

mroatman said:


> Long live Russia! Screw the rest of the world! Sink into the ocean for all I care!
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/RUSSIAN-ME...392845?hash=item441e60224d:g:YGEAAOSwWHZa~VEf
> 
> View attachment 13143845


But at least the lines at the pole are connect....


----------



## schnurrp

At least four different watches donated parts for this one.


----------



## Kamburov

schnurrp said:


> At least four different watches donated parts for this one.


At least five, schnurrp 
Avidfan, I spotted the ballance edge before you this time!
Ivan


----------



## Avidfan

Kamburov said:


> Avidfan, I spotted the ballance edge before you this time!
> Ivan


No worries, I'll get the next one!


----------



## elsoldemayo

Quite the collection of hands.


----------



## mroatman

elsoldemayo said:


> Quite the collection of hands.


And crowns!


----------



## Timepiece Tenderfoot

A Raketa Amphibian???


----------



## elsoldemayo

It even has the awful fake bezel with the upside down 30. Top frankening!!


----------



## CrusadesOClock

Timepiece Tenderfoot said:


> A Raketa Amphibian???
> 
> View attachment 13242755
> View attachment 13242757


I went to take a look at this listing, if someone out there has a Raketa diver in need of parts this might not be a bad buy tbh (if they get it at the lowest bid), the movement is 2609 ha and the dial and hands don't look like they have been tampered with.... but yeah, definitely a franken.


----------



## thewatchadude

Looked for this listing as well and on same page I got listing for case, glass and bezel... Adding all up still makes it cheaper than a fully built model.


----------



## CrusadesOClock

thewatchadude said:


> Looked for this listing as well and on same page I got listing for case, glass and bezel... Adding all up still makes it cheaper than a fully built model.


Nice, I lack the funds for any more watches but could be a cool little project for someone!

Edit: the case unfortunately seems to missing the crown which I read somewhere else has anti-clockwise threading... so that would be a pain to get a hold of, or make. Shame


----------



## maguirejp

I am putting a strap on this puppy and flaunting it to the world today.
Franken from Calgary, Canada, cheers to all WUS members


----------



## jmreynolds

Uh, wow. I'm speechless. With backwards numbers it must be one you use when you shave!

Sent from the gulag via carrier pigeon


----------



## Arizone

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONTRE-AUT...CCP-type-Explorer-Milgauss-neuve/123530075876


----------



## 24h

Arizone said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONTRE-AUT...CCP-type-Explorer-Milgauss-neuve/123530075876


:-d :-d :-d

"New watch, still protected by plastics"
Who is bidding this high?


----------



## mariomart

24h said:


> :-d :-d :-d
> 
> "New watch, still protected by plastics"
> Who is bidding this high?


I think you will find it's a bidding war between these two watch aficionados :-!


----------



## skipvel

I like the Rolex outer ring; (and the second hand) bet Vostok didn't make many of those!


----------



## Kotsov

It’s not a franken. It’s the unfortunate love child of a milgauss and an amphibia.

Someone show some compassion and give it a home


----------



## steve_AU

I wonder how much bodging is required to make that dial and movement fit in the fake rolex case. and make the hands fit too, I"m guessing they are ETA size hands ?


----------



## Arizone

Please, think of the children.


----------



## thewatchadude




----------



## TwentiethCenturyFox

It just needs "neck" bolts!


----------



## elsoldemayo

Someone got a new printer for Christmas


----------



## bearwithwatch

Raketa Franken. Let's call it Mr. Orange.

Surprisingly it is keeping up good time.


----------



## bearwithwatch

Raketa 24-hr Franken in blue with proper pointy hands.


----------



## thewatchadude

Another 24h:


----------



## 24h

Huh?


----------



## mariomart

24h said:


> Huh?


Lol, welcome to the fabulous Chinese line of Komandirskies :-! These have been around since the mid 1990's


----------



## 24h

mariomart said:


> Lol, welcome to the fabulous Chinese line of Komandirskies :-! These have been around since the mid 1990's


I'm sure I've seen one before, but never in this much detail.
I hesitated to post it on this thread becuause it is clearly fake rather than a watch put together from genuine parts.

Very confused as to why a Chinese factory would go through the trouble to POORLY reproduce an already inexpensive watch :-s

If only there was a factory producing Komandirskie cases in stainless steel...


----------



## mariomart

24h said:


> I'm sure I've seen one before, but never in this much detail.
> I hesitated to post it on this thread becuause it is clearly fake rather than a watch put together from genuine parts.
> 
> Very confused as to why a Chinese factory would go through the trouble to POORLY reproduce an already inexpensive watch :-s
> 
> If only there was a factory producing Komandirskie cases in stainless steel...


I'm pretty certain they were trying to make a profit off the fall of the Soviet Union. There was a lot of interest in all things Russian/Soviet after the fall and I think they tried to capitalize on that, and with their bulk manufacturing capabilities it' wouldn't be much of an effort in producing thousands of these for literal pennies in cost.


----------



## Kamburov

24h said:


> Huh?


The first thing I said when I saw one  The next thing I said was "why?" :-s
Not a franken, though. This one's a chinese counterfeit with a chinese standard movement, and (believe it or not) unidirectional bezel. On a case without a screwdown crown :think:
Such a nonsensical watch. A rare case when a final product has less value than the raw materials and energy used to produce it. 
Ivan

PS: Yes, what Mario says makes sense, but still....whyyy?


----------



## BreaksThings

I just saw someone on Etsy selling these. He at least made sure to lead the headline with 'counterfeit!' so he earned points in my book.


----------



## bearwithwatch

Raketa Franken 24h. Lovely dial color matching with strap and shirt. lawl


----------



## garethr

I dont know exactly what is happening here but i dont think its good.


----------



## Kamburov

This one actually might be a legit Pobeda pocket watch, in a well worn condition and the front cover has fallen off. The chain ring's gone. Don't own one, but they do exist, apparently 
Ivan


----------



## garethr

Thats actually pretty funny ive got a fair bit of learning today i think. Cheers.


----------



## thewatchadude

This one is not only a franken but also has fake parts. A good example of the mystery of faking a low price watch (auction starts at USD1.25).


----------



## pump 19

And the Copernicus concoction award goes to...









Available now on ebay


----------



## UnzazA

This is a really fancy piece.


----------



## thewatchadude

Shouldn't this be qualified as a mod rather than a franken? I know the difference is not very rationale and is largely dependent on each viewer's perception but anyway...


----------



## miquel99

pump 19 said:


> And the Copernicus concoction award goes to...
> 
> View attachment 13901753
> 
> 
> Available now on ebay


of course its a franken watch, but its so nice!!!


----------



## EndeavourDK

Spot the differences 
Available on eBay now .......

Sometimes one wonders "what were they smoking ?" :-d


----------



## Avidfan

EndeavourDK said:


> Spot the differences
> Available on eBay now .......
> 
> Sometimes one wonders "what were they smoking ?" :-d


Someone damaged a good Soviet scuba dude dial to make that? :-|


----------



## EndeavourDK

Avidfan said:


> Someone damaged a good Soviet scuba dude dial to make that? :-|


Yes, what was he / she smoking :-s ???

And what happened to the rest ??


----------



## jimzilla

Personally If I like the way it looks and it works ..... why not. I guess it depends if your a purest or not. This hobby has a lot of different people in it for a lot of different reasons.
I have purchased "bootleg"dial faces because I like them better than the originals, then again I like to Mod my watches. One mans treasure is another mans trash.


----------



## Dimy




----------



## Dave_Hedgehog

Hmmmm


----------



## 24h

Dave_Hedgehog said:


> Hmmmm


Jackson Pollock Amphibia? :-d :-d


----------



## RedFroggy

24h said:


> Jackson Pollock Amphibia? :-d :-d


Either that or the owner has the munchies ...


----------



## RedFroggy

24h said:


> Jackson Pollock Amphibia? :-d :-d


Either that or the owner has the munchies ...


----------



## EndeavourDK

Dave_Hedgehog said:


> Hmmmm


I actually quite like it ...... I would rather like to see it under the category artistic-"modding". I can see his/her humor :-!


----------



## coldethey

Dave_Hedgehog said:


> Hmmmm


Wow I actually really like it.


----------



## Dave_Hedgehog

coldethey said:


> Wow I actually really like it.


This might put you off... $200 plus postage, from the Bay.


----------



## RobNJ

I'm trying to remember the diving lessons I had thirty years ago. What was it, nitrogen narcosis, now in dive watch form? (I, too, actually quite like it, purist considerations aside.)


----------



## Bullseye the dog

Thanks for the information speaking of fakes these do no look right seller has many of the same


----------



## Avidfan

*Re: Russian watches identification and dating*



Bullseye the dog said:


> Thanks for the information speaking of fakes these do no look right seller has many of the same


Fake dial, hands and bezel, movement also too early for the case.


----------



## Bullseye the dog

Hi seller sold quite a few fo about £50+ pp advertising as 1980s flee bay of course


----------



## Avidfan

*Re: Russian watches identification and dating*

A good example of "what not to buy" :-d but there seems to be much more of this type of stuff on eBay these days :-|


----------



## dutchassasin

ive seen some bad frankens but this one takes the crown. Raketa 24hr 2623 inside a fake chinese case ><


----------



## Odessa200

dutchassasin said:


> ive seen some bad frankens but this one takes the crown. Raketa 24hr 2623 inside a fake chinese case ><
> 
> View attachment 14075891
> View attachment 14075893


I saw that as well. And the seller mentions '100% original' ? too funny


----------



## Kamburov

A franken fake?! A good contender for franken of the year award.
Ivan


----------



## Odessa200

Here is another great example. ‘Shturmanckie’ in Gold. Adversed as from 1957! With a fake dial that for what whatever reasons has lume added. Note: no lume on hands! This special and a very rare setup is needed for people who, at night, forgot how the dial looks like at and need to see that. 🙂


----------



## jimzilla

Here is my first "FRANKEN" that I purchased off ebay, I have to admit it does keep decent time.
I already posted this in show your Komradskie's but it fits better here.


----------



## miquel99

Without words


----------



## miquel99

View attachment 14091207


Without words


----------



## Bullseye the dog

Hi PhiI expect you have seen them before I purchased a few from pound world when they went bust unfortunately some were not working in sealed boxes hands dropped of ect


----------



## bultacolobito

Hello to everyone.
Did you see it before?


----------



## Bullseye the dog

Nice Radio room found this nice Vostok Frankenstein looks well made


----------



## Chascomm

That's one of those Eaglemoss military homages. There's nothing 'franken' about it.


----------



## Chascomm

That's not 'franken' either. It is a Vostok homage made in Hong Kong, probably by the same firm that made those watches for McDonald's.


----------



## thewatchadude




----------



## amgpuma

Cuba was very close to URSSS back at the iron curtain times like Venezuela today they might share technology ;-p


----------



## Odessa200

Unique design 🙂 old meets new


----------



## stadiou

Odessa200 said:


> Unique design &#55357;&#56898; old meets new


Only needs a replacement sweep seconds to make a decent example.


----------



## EndeavourDK

EndeavourDK said:


> Spot the differences
> Available on eBay now .......
> 
> " :-d


On page 135, 22nd of February I've seen and reported this watch, which was for sale on eBay. It was sold for £50 - £60 (?) excl. postage. Today I spotted the exact same watch again (same hands / dial / back-lid number etc); it seems a bit like a revolving door. It's for sale on eBay, with the auction for 4 more days to go .....; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RUSSIAN-...651317?hash=item215a39b1f5:g:JKQAAOSwGBxc1u93 :think:

So if you had any regrets the last time, this is you chance to get a nice looking Franken ...... :-d


----------



## Avidfan

EndeavourDK said:


> On page 135, 22nd of February I've seen and reported this watch, which was for sale on eBay. It was sold for £50 - £60 (?) excl. postage. Today I spotted the exact same watch again (same hands / dial / back-lid number etc); it seems a bit like a revolving door. It's for sale on eBay, with the auction for 4 more days to go .....; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RUSSIAN-...651317?hash=item215a39b1f5:g:JKQAAOSwGBxc1u93 :think:
> 
> So if you had any regrets the last time, this is you chance to get a nice looking Franken ...... :-d


Obviously original buyer returned after they read this thread :-d

Still no mention by the seller of the cut-off dial feet to make this monster :-|


----------



## EndeavourDK

Avidfan said:


> Obviously original buyer returned after they read this thread :-d
> 
> Still no mention by the seller of the cut-off dial feet to make this monster :-|


I can't remember the text in the previous add exactly, but I noticed straight away that this add starts with: "Dial should be in an Amphibia case". 
It may be a different seller :-s (perhaps the previous buyer :think:?)
But, as you said, no mention of the "re-positioned" dial feet nor the "missing" automatic movement ......... :think:

Anyways, curious if in a few months time this "hot-potato" pops up again or that someone is willing to hold it? ;-)


----------



## Avidfan

EndeavourDK said:


> I can't remember the text in the previous add exactly, but I noticed straight away that this add starts with: "Dial should be in an Amphibia case".
> It may be a different seller :-s (perhaps the previous buyer :think:?)
> But, as you said, no mention of the "re-positioned" dial feet nor the "missing" automatic movement ......... :think:
> 
> Anyways, curious if in a few months time this "hot-potato" pops up again or that someone is willing to hold it? ;-)


Pretty sure it is the same seller, they're a member here so maybe they'll let us know :think:


----------



## 24h

At least he mentions that it's an incorrect combination with that dial.
I've bid on many of this seller's items but have never won any of them :-d


----------



## EndeavourDK

Another Chinese version ? No picture of the movement. Now on eBay for US$46.45, free shipping :-!


----------



## stevarad

EndeavourDK said:


> Another Chinese version ? No picture of the movement. Now on eBay for US$46.45, free shipping :-!


this should be franken of the year

Послато са SM-N950F уз помоћ Тапатока


----------



## Chascomm

The case is 100% authentic Vostok. The dial looks like it was reverse-engineered from the famous Chinese fake (i.e. a fake of a fake). I'd suspect a Tongji movement inside, but I'm not sure it can fit that case.


----------



## Odessa200

‘Rodina’ 🙂 very hard to spot the issue. Not.....
But it comes with a box! 🙂


----------



## jimzilla

I have another one I need an opinion on, thanks.


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you Avidfan for critiquing thees watches your knowledge and expertise are very valuable sir, best regards, James. |>


----------



## thewatchadude

Not exactly a franken, rather a Chinese fake. But I couldn't resist showing this fascinating soldier on the dial...


----------



## Chascomm

thewatchadude said:


> Not exactly a franken, rather a Chinese fake. But I couldn't resist showing this fascinating soldier on the dial...


...armed with an M-16 and wearing a large red star on his head. :-d


----------



## EndeavourDK

There are currently more of these "wonders" on the Bay. I can make out the sub, but the other requires more fantasy :-d


----------



## Odessa200

Wrong inside and outside... ultra rare ‘original’ 🙂


----------



## Odessa200

How does this work? 24h watch on 2609? Maybe time moves twice faster near the poles...


----------



## elsoldemayo

Another mishmash


----------



## mariomart

Newly minted Vostok Amphibia Miyota Quartz Chinese edition :-!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vostok-Cus...W-Leater-sport-Watches-Best-Gift/383000210276


----------



## stevarad

marvelous



Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## Chascomm

Did you see the seller's other items? They've got Omega, BMW, Audi, Mini Cooper, Tintin... o| Imagine the royalties they must be paying!


----------



## EndeavourDK

The eBay auction for this "Russian Military Amphibian Wrist Watch" just ended; US$56 plus US$10 shipping

Pretty amazing ......


----------



## Odessa200

EndeavourDK said:


> The eBay auction for this "Russian Military Amphibian Wrist Watch" just ended; US$56 plus US$10 shipping
> 
> Pretty amazing ......


🙂. Fake fake fake but a nice looking one 🙂


----------



## 24h

More of a "mod" than a franken, but why would someone do this to the best variation of one of my favorite watches? :-s :-(


----------



## EndeavourDK

24h said:


> More of a "mod" than a franken, but why would someone do this to the best variation of one of my favorite watches? :-s :-(
> 
> View attachment 14253991


You could ask the same question in the "Vostok-Mod thread" .......
The answers could be very educative ...... many people, many different values and idea's. That's what make the world so colorful ......


----------



## stevarad

24h said:


> More of a "mod" than a franken, but why would someone do this to the best variation of one of my favorite watches? :-s :-(
> 
> View attachment 14253991


I like it. That red colour match him perfect.

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## Kamburov

24h said:


> More of a "mod" than a franken, but why would someone do this to the best variation of one of my favorite watches? :-s :-(
> 
> View attachment 14253991


The lumed part of the hour hand looks funny.


----------



## 24h

Kamburov said:


> The lumed part of the hour hand looks funny.


Haha :-d :-d

And what is the point of adding red paint to both sides of the chronograph seconds hand :-s


----------



## Odessa200

I think the Seconds hand is a bit long... 🙂


----------



## thewatchadude

Subtle


----------



## Chascomm

thewatchadude said:


> Subtle...


I guess they wanted a more prominent second hand. They might have tried one of these:


----------



## thewatchadude

Not sure whether I am very lucky or very unlucky. This time I happen to have found a nest. No offense intended.


----------



## elsoldemayo

The radio room dial looks printed so safe to assume the same of the rest of them.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Interesting... at least it has a proper 24Hr movement inside.


----------



## dutchassasin

while browsing the bay... crafty contraption


----------



## pjimmie-v

A very special vostok komandirskie. A backcase that is not screwed but only clamped. no screw-down crown, crown too small, unmarked movement, but as an extra a click one direction bezel.


----------



## EndeavourDK

pjimmie-v said:


> A very special vostok komandirskie. A backcase that is not screwed but only clamped. no screw-down crown, crown too small, unmarked movement, but as an extra a click one direction bezel.


Welcome to the forum :-!

These are well known Chinese versions. If you read this thread you will see many more different versions of them ;-)

Other good educative threads to read are the Q&A Expertise threads, for example parts 2 & part 3;

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-part-2-a-4514699.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-part-3-a-4977267.html


----------



## dutchassasin

Well this is unusual..


----------



## Odessa200

dutchassasin said:


> Well this is unusual..
> 
> View attachment 14334247


Lovely


----------



## Chascomm

dutchassasin said:


> Well this is unusual..
> 
> View attachment 14334247


Taking recycling too far....


----------



## Utva_56

Very "special" edition Komandirski tank. Nice , vibrant colour. While looking through Meshok.net


----------



## pmwas

Wow! The famous Russian Combat Armored Toad! Rare find...


----------



## Kotsov

pmwas said:


> Wow! The famous Russian Combat Armored Toad! Rare find...


It should be towed somewhere and left...


----------



## Odessa200

Dial: checked, Hands: checked, crown: checked, movement: checked. ‘Perfect’ Shturmanskie type 1 (cause it is 15 j). 🙂


----------



## thewatchadude

30 ATM


----------



## Odessa200

Super deal! 15 frankens for 2000$! Too expensive? How about 10 for 1400$? 🙂


----------



## bearwithwatch

Starting new month with this beauty powered by Vostok 2421 movement. 
Quite accurate during a 24 hr test.


----------



## Odessa200

Tried to count how many watches lost their parts to give birth to this. The seller is right that this is a unique and super rare watch. The rest is a not off... even the number of jewels in description is given wrong. Sad story...


----------



## Odessa200

White glove service.... there are frankanes and there completely obnoxious frankens. Another sad story...


----------



## elsoldemayo

Ha, I'd just saved the picture of this watch from ebay to post here


----------



## bearwithwatch

powered by Vostok 2421 movement. For the cash I paid, I ain't complaining.


----------



## Odessa200

bearwithwatch said:


> powered by Vostok 2421 movement. For the cash I paid, I ain't complaining.


How? ...21 caliber has no second hand. The watch appears to have it.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Maybe it's a 2431 movement as the indices suggest it's a 24Hr watch.


----------



## Odessa200

elsoldemayo said:


> Maybe it's a 2431 movement as the indices suggest it's a 24Hr watch.


Nope: ...31 caliber is not a 24 h 🙂
..23 and ..24 is a 24h caliber.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Odessa200 said:


> Nope: ...31 caliber is not a 24 h &#55357;&#56898;
> *..23 and ..24 is a 24h caliber.*


For Raketa movements, but for Vostok movements, 2431 is their 24Hr movement and bearwithwatch mentions it's a Vostok movement


----------



## Odessa200

elsoldemayo said:


> Odessa200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope: ...31 caliber is not a 24 h ��
> *..23 and ..24 is a 24h caliber.*
> 
> 
> 
> For Raketa movements, but for Vostok movements, 2431 is their 24Hr movement and bearwithwatch mentions it's a Vostok movement
Click to expand...

Not for Raketa but for all soviet watches. So modern vostok decided to break a tradition and well accepted nomenclature for every soviet and russian caliber. O well... new times... new rules.

Thanks for correcting me.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Odessa200 said:


> Not for Raketa but for all soviet watches. So modern vostok decided to break a tradition and well accepted nomenclature for every soviet and russian caliber. O well... new times... new rules.
> 
> Thanks for correcting me.


I have a couple of 24Hr Vostoks with the older 2423 inside as well, so thanks for reminding me the Vostok 24Hr movement used to be 2423. I guess they gave the current movement a new number as it's automatic.


----------



## Odessa200

elsoldemayo said:


> Odessa200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not for Raketa but for all soviet watches. So modern vostok decided to break a tradition and well accepted nomenclature for every soviet and russian caliber. O well... new times... new rules.
> 
> Thanks for correcting me.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a couple of 24Hr Vostoks with the older 2423 inside as well, so thanks for reminding me the Vostok 24Hr movement used to be 2423. I guess they gave the current movement a new number as it's automatic.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that but they could have picked any available number instead of hijacking an existing caliber. No?


----------



## thewatchadude

Probably not the best place for this request but I didn't want to create a specific thread for just one question. Could anyone address me to a post where a Raketa 24h with blue dial was discussed--if I remember well this one had papers showing it was soviet though the model is usually considered at best as late transition if not franken. Sorry to be so vague in my request.


----------



## dutchassasin

spotted on fleabay haha


----------



## haha

dutchassasin said:


> spotted on fleabay haha
> 
> View attachment 14567403


Wonderful !
Hope it costs at least 600 $ !?!


----------



## art1118

dutchassasin said:


> spotted on fleabay haha
> 
> View attachment 14567403


Excuse my lack of knowledge, but what makes this watch Franken? Educate me, please.


----------



## Odessa200

art1118 said:


> dutchassasin said:
> 
> 
> 
> spotted on fleabay haha
> 
> View attachment 14567403
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse my lack of knowledge, but what makes this watch Franken? Educate me, please.
Click to expand...

Take a look and compare to these photos. Hands are obvious. Then Look how the Made in USSR is done on the franken above. I am sure there are a lot of other things wrong with it.


----------



## Odessa200

Volna. Cheep. Only 1 photo offered.


----------



## dutchassasin

Odessa200 said:


> Take a look and compare to these photos. Hands are obvious. Then Look how the Made in USSR is done on the franken above. I am sure there are a lot of other things wrong with it.


Funny how you mention the hands first when the whole dial is bogus


----------



## colt

Wait, what?


----------



## thewatchadude

Can this qualify as a franken?


----------



## Chascomm

thewatchadude said:


> Can this qualify as a franken?


Not really. Isn't this a recent product from Red Star Watches?


----------



## colt

It is. More like a homage then a franken


----------



## stevarad

Yes, RedStar production. Not franken. Homage to russian watches from chinese producer. Using luch1801 movement.

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## elsoldemayo

Wow - https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Limited-Edition-Poljot-Ocean-gold-mens-wrist-watch-OPEN-FACE/163942587056


----------



## Odessa200

elsoldemayo said:


> Wow - https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Limited-Edition-Poljot-Ocean-gold-mens-wrist-watch-OPEN-FACE/163942587056
> 
> View attachment 14624093


Good one!


----------



## Chascomm

elsoldemayo said:


> Wow - https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Limited-Edition-Poljot-Ocean-gold-mens-wrist-watch-OPEN-FACE/163942587056
> 
> View attachment 14624093


It gets better...

"Poljot watch Ocean nice working condition!
* Marriage watch 
* Made in 1950s
* Stainless steel case"


----------



## stevarad

Pure gold, this okean )))

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## 979greenwich

Good job, work of a true frankenmaster.


----------



## SinanjuStein

elsoldemayo said:


> Wow - https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Limited-Edition-Poljot-Ocean-gold-mens-wrist-watch-OPEN-FACE/163942587056


It's absolutely horrifying to look at.

Any more of this kind?


----------



## Odessa200

Not strictly a franken but severely handicapped quite hard to use with the ‘clean’ dial.


----------



## 5-hats

I signed up for watchuseek to post this. Don't thank me ;-)


----------



## Odessa200

5-hats said:


> I signed up for watchuseek to post this. Don't thank me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 14631757


A little bit of everything 🙂


----------



## Odessa200

At you will get the eel band. No exceptions!


----------



## thewatchadude

Odessa200 said:


> A little bit of everything &#55357;&#56898;


The best of both


----------



## Odessa200

No movement shot but my guess it is missing autowinding part.


----------



## Odessa200

With papers and the box. 1976!


----------



## Chascomm

powered by a Chistopol 2603; a little bit of something for everybody.


----------



## pump 19

Available now on the bay... *WATCH COMMANDER 17 JEWELS WATERPROOF 
MILITARY TANK (ORDER OF MOUSSR) CALENDAR*









Don't know about this "order of MOUSSR' Maybe it's "mooser" commemorative?


----------



## Kamburov

pump 19 said:


> Available now on the bay... *WATCH COMMANDER 17 JEWELS WATERPROOF
> MILITARY TANK (ORDER OF MOUSSR) CALENDAR*


 This one a chinese fake. A level above franken.


----------



## Odessa200

With the papers 🙂. The seller really did a great job getting the papers number match the watch!


----------



## philippeF

Odessa200 said:


> Take a look and compare to these photos. Hands are obvious. Then Look how the Made in USSR is done on the franken above. I am sure there are a lot of other things wrong with it.


surprisingly, the dial typo and indexes seem correct ?!


----------



## dutchassasin

Creative buggers


----------



## leo01

Good morning and happy new year.
I have a Poljot de luxe 23 jewels. Is there the possibility the case to be silver with the (up part "bezel") to be gold?
I will try for photo.
Forgive my poor English.

With respect,
Giorgos.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

leo01 said:


> Good morning and happy new year.
> I have a Poljot de luxe 23 jewels. Is there the possibility the case to be silver with the (up part "bezel") to be gold?
> I will try for photo.
> Forgive my poor English.
> 
> With respect,
> Giorgos.


Happy New Year, Giorgos!!

I believe Luch sold 2209s (the movement inside the 23 jewels De Luxe Poljots) with that finish combination, but the Poljots were all gilded, I'm afraid..


----------



## leo01

After posting I read other topics, so I agree with you.

image hosting site


----------



## leo01

After posting I read other topics, so I agree with you.
fallout 4 survival food
image hosting site


----------



## lxjenkins

This is taking "Franken" to a whole new level.


----------



## lxjenkins

This is taking "Franken" to a whole new level.

View attachment 14747431

View attachment 14747435


----------



## Odessa200

lxjenkins said:


> This is taking "Franken" to a whole new level.
> 
> View attachment 14747431
> 
> View attachment 14747435


Nice! I think the person is just trying to improvise with his own creative design...


----------



## dutchassasin

This slava medical that is currently on ebay is not what it seems, dial and inner bezel are fake and wrong seconds hand


----------



## Odessa200

🙂


----------



## bearwithwatch

Keeps good enough time to stay in collection


----------



## Dodgydruid

dutchassasin said:


> This slava medical that is currently on ebay is not what it seems, dial and inner bezel are fake and wrong seconds hand


I saw that one or one like it in my daily ebay saved searches and it seemed not right. It is my intention to get a pulse but not in too much a hurry and some of the prices are insane.


----------



## Dodgydruid

dutchassasin said:


> This slava medical that is currently on ebay is not what it seems, dial and inner bezel are fake and wrong seconds hand


I saw that one or one like it in my daily ebay saved searches and it seemed not right. It is my intention to get a pulse but not in too much a hurry and some of the prices are insane.


----------



## bearwithwatch

Franken for lazy Sunday. I'll probably sell it.


----------



## Odessa200

Look at the description! Did he miss any other russian watch keyword? And obviously the price matches such a rare Kosmos edition 🙂.


----------



## 979greenwich

At least hit got some things right


----------



## Avidfan

Odessa200 said:


> Look at the description! Did he miss any other russian watch keyword? And obviously the price matches such a rare Kosmos edition 🙂.


Not a franken but a legit 921823 auto-Komandirskie, as for the description :-s


----------



## Bullseye the dog

More from flee bay rough tankist and a very pretty amfibia not sure if the did them in gold


----------



## dfwcowboy

bearwithwatch said:


> Franken for lazy Sunday. I'll probably sell it.


Do you know what movement it has?


----------



## Odessa200

dfwcowboy said:


> bearwithwatch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Franken for lazy Sunday. I'll probably sell it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what movement it has?
Click to expand...

Usually these watches have a plain 12h movement. The description is misleading. It lists '24 h dial' but when you ask the seller he responds with something like 'I never said it is 24 h watch. It is 12 h watch with a 24 h dial' ?


----------



## ned-ludd

I'm going to start by taking the liberty of quoting from a private message to me from Afka in 2017:



> In Russia they have two words to designate counterfeits.
> 
> 1. Cutlet. This is a watch combined from different original details from different models. Sometimes the cutlets are even combined from original details of different brands. [One of your watches] is typical cutlet, combined from different Raketa components. Including the true 2623 movement.
> 
> 2. Remake or "novodel" in Russian. This new production series based usually on design of some original model, but the most of the parts are new. Often they try to be so close as possible to the original model. New cases and dials ordered from China. Usually the movement is based on old Raketa movements, upgraded from 12h to 24h. Raketa was a huge company in the Soviet Union, producing several hundreds thousands every year. In the 90s when Raketa was nearly bankrupted, ten of thousand of movements were just stolen from Raketa stock. This is good for maybe next 100 years to produce remakes.


Given the above I take 'franken' and 'cutlet' to mean much the same thing. (Presumably the back-form word 'franken' is little known in Russia.)



bearwithwatch said:


> Franken for lazy Sunday. I'll probably sell it.]


I wouldn't call this a franken/cutlet but a remake because the dial is not a direct copy of any Raketa that I know of (not that I'm an expert, though). Everything about it says 'newly made'.



dfwcowboy said:


> Do you know what movement it has?


This type of watch almost certainly has a 12-hour Raketa (2609/2614/2628) modified to 24-hour.



Odessa200 said:


> Usually these watches have a plain 12h movement. The description is misleading. It lists '24 h dial' but when you ask the seller he responds with something like 'I never said it is 24 h watch. It is 12 h watch with a 24 h dial' ?


I'm quite sure this is actually a 24-hour watch. Even with parallax it looks to be showing a genuine 23:30. All the cutlets/remakes I've bought on ebay have been driven by 24-hour 26xx movements, genuine and modified. Bearwithwatch is most likely going to dispose of it because it's just not a very high quality watch. Just look at that dial printing!

The only watches I've seen that claim to be 24-hour but are actually 12-hour are newly made ones from China. I still don't understand why they do that and when queried the sellers don't seem to get why it would even matter.


----------



## Odessa200

ned-ludd said:


> I'm going to start by taking the liberty of quoting from a private message to me from Afka in 2017:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Russia they have two words to designate counterfeits.
> 
> 1. Cutlet. This is a watch combined from different original details from different models. Sometimes the cutlets are even combined from original details of different brands. [One of your watches] is typical cutlet, combined from different Raketa components. Including the true 2623 movement.
> 
> 2. Remake or "novodel" in Russian. This new production series based usually on design of some original model, but the most of the parts are new. Often they try to be so close as possible to the original model. New cases and dials ordered from China. Usually the movement is based on old Raketa movements, upgraded from 12h to 24h. Raketa was a huge company in the Soviet Union, producing several hundreds thousands every year. In the 90s when Raketa was nearly bankrupted, ten of thousand of movements were just stolen from Raketa stock. This is good for maybe next 100 years to produce remakes.
> 
> 
> 
> Given the above I take 'franken' and 'cutlet' to mean much the same thing. (Presumably the back-form word 'franken' is little known in Russia.)
> 
> 
> 
> bearwithwatch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Franken for lazy Sunday. I'll probably sell it.]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't call this a franken/cutlet but a remake because the dial is not a direct copy of any Raketa that I know of (not that I'm an expert, though). Everything about it says 'newly made'.
> 
> 
> 
> dfwcowboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what movement it has?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This type of watch almost certainly has a 12-hour Raketa (2609/2614/2628) modified to 24-hour.
> 
> 
> 
> Odessa200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Usually these watches have a plain 12h movement. The description is misleading. It lists '24 h dial' but when you ask the seller he responds with something like 'I never said it is 24 h watch. It is 12 h watch with a 24 h dial' ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm quite sure this is actually a 24-hour watch. Even with parallax it looks to be showing a genuine 23:30. All the cutlets/remakes I've bought on ebay have been driven by 24-hour 26xx movements, genuine and modified. Bearwithwatch is most likely going to dispose of it because it's just not a very high quality watch. Just look at that dial printing!
> 
> The only watches I've seen that claim to be 24-hour but are actually 12-hour are newly made ones from China. I still don't understand why they do that and when queried the sellers don't seem to get why it would even matter.
Click to expand...

I had simplified it at least for myself: anything that says 'made in USSR' but actually was not made in USSR is a fake/fraud/etc/etc. there is a small exception about watches made in transition time with the soviet dials. This is obviously a fake watch. Even if the movement is 24h it will not be from USSR either. I would not buy it because I do not want to patronize makers of such fraudulent items. I would rather buy a cutlet (made from genuine parts) and use it for parts than this one. Cause the next step, after buying this one, is to buy a Rolex in Chinatown... not for me.


----------



## ned-ludd

Found on the bay.

- 12 hour dial
- _Copernic_ hands
- World time bezel
- 2623 (24h) movement









This is the very first time I've seen a 12-hour dial with a 24-hour movement. Note the hour hand just past halfway between the 10 and 11: it's actually showing 21:09.

I'd buy it just for the various parts but wouldn't dream of encouraging the seller.


----------



## Odessa200

ned-ludd said:


> Found on the bay.
> 
> - 12 hour dial
> - _Copernic_ hands
> - World time bezel
> - 2623 (24h) movement
> 
> View attachment 14791355
> 
> 
> This is the very first time I've seen a 12-hour dial with a 24-hour movement. Note the hour hand just past halfway between the 10 and 11: it's actually showing 21:09.
> 
> I'd buy it just for the various parts but wouldn't dream of encouraging the seller.


Fantastic example! 🙂


----------



## system11

I can't help but laugh and feel sorry for it.


----------



## Dodgydruid

I've noticed in my ebay feeds of late watch dials on Russian watches that have been "oil painted" as in like you hang on your wall sort of oil paintings, is that a thing in Russia?


----------



## Dodgydruid

Bullseye the dog said:


> More from flee bay rough tankist and a very pretty amfibia not sure if the did them in gold


I've got a gold generalskie tank commander watch, it has a kinda tigers eye effect with a vertical stripe in a TiN case, it does look pretty smart. I do have a similar pair of goldish brown dials to yours one with paratroopers logo the other a submarine but the paint has gone bad on 'em both so its very difficult to make out the applied decorations and looks quite rubbish, yet my tank commander on the gilded dial and my 50 years victory gilded ones are flawless with good decals and surprisingly on the 50 years the red of the artwork has not faded either.


----------



## Chascomm

ned-ludd said:


> Found on the bay.
> 
> - 12 hour dial
> - _Copernic_ hands
> - World time bezel
> - 2623 (24h) movement
> 
> View attachment 14791355
> 
> 
> This is the very first time I've seen a 12-hour dial with a 24-hour movement. Note the hour hand just past halfway between the 10 and 11: it's actually showing 21:09.
> 
> I'd buy it just for the various parts but wouldn't dream of encouraging the seller.


I'm always surprised at how few people actually grasp what a 24-hour watch is and how it works. It's not a difficult concept really. But that is why you get 12 hour watches with 24 hour dials (just for 'style') or a 12 (double scale) dial like this one on a 24 watch that somebody thought would work because it happens to show hours 13 to 24.

And what is it with people who fit 24 hour bezels to 12 hour watches lacking even a GMT hand?


----------



## stevarad

Chascomm said:


> I'm always surprised at how few people actually grasp what a 24-hour watch is and how it works. It's not a difficult concept really. But that is why you get 12 hour watches with 24 hour dials (just for 'style') or a 12 (double scale) dial like this one on a 24 watch that somebody thought would work because it happens to show hours 13 to 24.
> 
> And what is it with people who fit 24 hour bezels to 12 hour watches lacking even a GMT hand?


Just wow.Precious!

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## Avidfan

Dodgydruid said:


> I've got a gold generalskie tank commander watch, it has a kinda tigers eye effect with a vertical stripe in a TiN case, it does look pretty smart. I do have a similar pair of goldish brown dials to yours one with paratroopers logo the other a submarine but the paint has gone bad on 'em both so its very difficult to make out the applied decorations and looks quite rubbish, yet my tank commander on the gilded dial and my 50 years victory gilded ones are flawless with good decals and surprisingly on the 50 years the red of the artwork has not faded either.


The golden dials on your paratrooper and submarine both started out green (they were originally available in blue and green) time and light has turned them both golden.

Your tank commander and 50 years of Victory had gold dials from when they were new and have remained the same...


----------



## Avidfan

Dodgydruid said:


> I've noticed in my ebay feeds of late watch dials on Russian watches that have been "oil painted" as in like you hang on your wall sort of oil paintings, is that a thing in Russia?


This old thread is worth reading on these: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/hand-painted-dials-1796130.html

But as always it's "buyer beware" as some of these were done 60 or 70 years ago but many have been painted recently to hide badly damaged dials...


----------



## Odessa200

Here is the Poljot with ‘original’ box and papers as per description. Too bad the bod is from Vostok and papers, although for 3133, mention that it is a gilded one 🙂. I think this watch has a better chance of sale w/o the box and papers


----------



## Kamburov

Finally found it. The legendary zakaz OKEAH.


----------



## Odessa200

Kamburov said:


> Finally found it. The legendary zakaz OKEAH.
> 
> View attachment 14809573


Oooooo. This is how it looks.....


----------



## Dodgydruid

Am I guessing film transfer paper and an inkjet printer on that?


----------



## Dodgydruid

So, is this legit or is this a bit of a mystery?

Poljot Amfibia


----------



## Avidfan

Dodgydruid said:


> So, is this legit or is this a bit of a mystery?
> 
> Poljot Amfibia


No mystery, it's a franken watch, but easily fixed with an appropriate Vostok 470 dial / hands and anti-magnetic shield...


----------



## bearwithwatch

ned-ludd said:


> Found on the bay.
> 
> - 12 hour dial
> - _Copernic_ hands
> - World time bezel
> - 2623 (24h) movement
> 
> View attachment 14791355
> 
> 
> This is the very first time I've seen a 12-hour dial with a 24-hour movement. Note the hour hand just past halfway between the 10 and 11: it's actually showing 21:09.
> 
> I'd buy it just for the various parts but wouldn't dream of encouraging the seller.


*cue Baby's Music Box Lullabies*





This is one of the watches which you find in cellar while digging though the past of a leather mask psychopath in Hollywood movies, and how he was abused and left alone in basement all alone while growing up.


----------



## system11

If it fits in the case that's good enough!


----------



## ThePossumKing

The holy grail of frankens!

"every watch is either a rare original or carefully restored to how it was released from the Soviet factories"

https://trulesorub.com/?fbclid=IwAR0kRimF57JomzTvk9VY8Y375NKINwJq30RSFAg8vQwbImqILeRkRBwzXdo


----------



## Chascomm

ThePossumKing said:


> The holy grail of frankens!
> 
> "every watch is either a rare original or carefully restored to how it was released from the Soviet factories"
> 
> https://trulesorub.com/?fbclid=IwAR0kRimF57JomzTvk9VY8Y375NKINwJq30RSFAg8vQwbImqILeRkRBwzXdo


:-x Where to start?... o|

Of course that Druzhba must be a 1990 edition; it says so on the papers.

And obviously Aviator brand was made by Raketa. Why else would that dial and that movement be in the same watch?

Who could doubt that in the 1980s, Molnija were making swing-lug pocket-to-wrist conversions declaring 'Death to Spies', because isn't that what everybody was into back then?


----------



## elsoldemayo

Interesting... "We sell only ORIGINAL goods" ... emphasis on original is the sellers :rodekaart


----------



## Dodgydruid

system11 said:


> If it fits in the case that's good enough!
> 
> View attachment 14818599


I saw one of these in a joblot not so long ago, it was the only thing worth nabbing even though the crystal and dial were toasted, be funny if it was this one franken'd up lol


----------



## Chascomm

elsoldemayo said:


> Interesting... "We sell only ORIGINAL goods" ... emphasis on original is the sellers :rodekaart


That is original. I'm pretty sure nobody has matched up that set of parts before now.


----------



## Kamburov

100% original.From Soviet Union 
Rare Collectible
In collection.
















Visit store for more rare and collectible stuff ...









... and an extremely rare Zim Pobeda








View attachment 14852453


----------



## haha

Kamburov said:


> 100% original.From Soviet Union
> Rare Collectible
> In collection.
> 
> View attachment 14852375
> 
> View attachment 14852379
> 
> 
> Visit store for more rare and collectible stuff ...
> 
> View attachment 14852443
> 
> 
> ... and an extremely rare Zim Pobeda
> 
> View attachment 14852451
> 
> View attachment 14852453


A day will come when i put together all the parts that remain unused in my drawers and improvise similar artistic combinations that i'll also proudly call rare or even unique !
But i won't sell them on the bay, i'll donate them to a museum b-)


----------



## Kamburov

Making all these different parts fit into each other looks pretty easy, right? One would think everything russian would fit into/onto anything russian.
Sometimes I find it hard fitting parts that are meant for each other. Go figure!
How do they do that? Is it a special talent, or something?


----------



## haha

Kamburov said:


> Making all these different parts fit into each other looks pretty easy, right? One would think everything russian would fit into/onto anything russian.
> Sometimes I find it hard fitting parts that are meant for each other. Go figure!
> How do they do that? Is it a special talent, or something?


Maybe they studied species blending with Jan Švankmajer?!


----------



## Dodgydruid

Oh if it were such a case of just fitting one part to another watch, I had to buy some Poljot scrap movements to replace the missing top balance jewel on my other stadium, slava and vostok do not fit...


----------



## bearwithwatch

Beater for a lazy day. Surprisingly keeping good time within acceptable range.


----------



## Dodgydruid

Its funny I have all these fancy Russian and other watches and I am switching between my suspicious Stadium and my white CCCP Slava quartz for daily wear.


----------



## mariomart

Dodgydruid said:


> Its funny I have all these fancy Russian and other watches and I am switching between my suspicious Stadium and my white CCCP Slava quartz for daily wear.


Lol. I know the feeling, I've got over 150 pieces yet over the past week I've mainly been wearing a quartz Citizen Chrono


----------



## Chascomm

Kamburov said:


> Making all these different parts fit into each other looks pretty easy, right? One would think everything russian would fit into/onto anything russian.
> Sometimes I find it hard fitting parts that are meant for each other. Go figure!
> How do they do that? Is it a special talent, or something?


Well who would have thought that a steel cased Poljot 2416 (designed for a Bagoblocc-type case back) would acccept the screw-down back from a Hong Kong made fake Komandirskie?

That must have taken some trial-and-error.


----------



## thewatchadude

mariomart said:


> Lol. I know the feeling, I've got over 150 pieces yet over the past week I've mainly been wearing a quartz Citizen Chrono


You showed us your collection once. I'd tend to think what matters here is "over" not "150"...


----------



## Kamburov

Chascomm said:


> Well who would have thought that a steel cased Poljot 2416 (designed for a Bagoblocc-type case back) would acccept the screw-down back from a Hong Kong made fake Komandirskie?
> 
> That must have taken some trial-and-error.


It's actually a more banal chromed Vostok 2209 case, in which 2616 was fitted.
This guy is good!









a 2209 model for comparison


----------



## Kamburov

haha said:


> Maybe they studied species blending with Jan Švankmajer?!


Your comment introduced me to Jan Švankmajer (thanks for that!), and after spending some time in youtube, I have to agree ... it's that surreal


----------



## fla

Chascomm said:


> Well who would have thought that a steel cased Poljot 2416 (designed for a Bagoblocc-type case back) would acccept the screw-down back from a Hong Kong made fake Komandirskie?
> 
> That must have taken some trial-and-error.


Morevover, a Vostok cal. 22** case is ok for a Hong Kong made fake Komandirskie screw-down back and Poljot 2416 dial and movement, with or without a rotor.


----------



## fla

Rather for 2214, not 2209, they look almost identical, but a case for 2214 is slighly higher.


----------



## Kamburov

fla said:


> Rather for 2214, not 2209, they look almost identical, but a case for 2214 is slighly higher.


Yeah, you are right, could be. Doesn't really matter, though, the case back provides enough space and 2616 is a quite thin auto anyway. 
I had put it in my watch list so I can find it and post pics here. I just received a special discount offer from the seller for $32 + $9.99 shipping.
Tempting!


----------



## fla

Kamburov said:


> Yeah, you are right, could be. Doesn't really matter, though, the case back provides enough space and 2616 is a quite thin auto anyway.
> I had put it in my watch list so I can find it and post pics here. I just received a special discount offer from the seller for $32 + $9.99 shipping.
> Tempting!


If you bought them, and the 2616 is complete auto and fits the case, then of course, it doesn't matter whether it's 2209 or 2214 case.


----------



## JosefRaketa

A mixture of Raketa "Cheburashka" case and Vostok 2214 movement.
Came to me in a lot with other watches and from the first day worked pretty well. 
I have to say that I somehow like the combination and since it is reliable i may leave it like this and wear it too...


----------



## Kamburov

fla said:


> If you bought them ...


 The tempting part was sarcastic. For $40 maybe if a working franken 3133 :think:


----------



## fla

Kamburov said:


> The tempting part was sarcastic. For $40 maybe if a working franken 3133 :think:


I had no doubts regarding your sarcasm. ;-) USD40 is a really good price for a working franken 3133 even in Moscow.


----------



## elsoldemayo

The lesser know Raketa 24Hr 'mishmash'


----------



## Kamburov

if 2623 can we consider it a MOD?


----------



## elsoldemayo

Kamburov said:


> if 2623 can we consider it a MOD?


It has a 2623.H....


----------



## Odessa200

This one should be in a Hall of Shame. Not only a franken watch but a blatant lier seller. Disgusting behavior. Especially for a person who claims to be an expert. 16 j limited Shurmanskie! 150% original. Read the description....


----------



## 979greenwich

Vostok fruit salad.
277 $ and ultra rare (well, that's true).


----------



## Dodgydruid

Odessa200 said:


> This one should be in a Hall of Shame. Not only a franken watch but a blatant lier seller. Disgusting behavior. Especially for a person who claims to be an expert. 16 j limited Shurmanskie! 150% original. Read the description....


A lot of these sellers "sanitise" their shenanigins by doing the 10% to some charity or other, they just pitch the price up that 10% and they look good to the knowlessmen punters


----------



## Dodgydruid

979greenwich said:


> Vostok fruit salad.
> 277 $ and ultra rare (well, that's true).


I love the artisanship on the bracelet going on there, it seems to try and be all sizes and everything in between and I imagine it would look positively hideous on a wrist.

PS is that Greenwich South London or Greenwich NY in your moniker? My youngest was born in the South London one, then they knocked the hospital down making her feel a little insecure hehe


----------



## 979greenwich

Actually, i have no relationship with England. Well, except music (The Clash, Joy Division, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy and so on), TV (Only fools and horses, Black Adder, Top Gear, David Attenborough...) and the english disease - football 
I was aiming for an ambiguous user name somewhat associated with watches (GMT).
As to where i'm from:


----------



## Dodgydruid

Hehe I'm a South Londoner who drives a three wheel van lol I followed the Clash for years, used to go to the Acton Arms where they often played. Or the Hope and Anchor Camden for when Madness were playing, was a major 2 tone nut and still am although my music collection in the car is peppered with Queen, Bowie, Abba, Pink Floyd and the theme from Only Fools which I play for people when they want to take pics or vids lol

Can't really comment on the football thing, my team is Millwall as it was super easy to get to on the train or bus much to the chagrin to my father who was a Charlton nut, my second name is like Rodney's and you cannot imagine the hate I had for that name when Rodney got married and boy did I get some ribbing.

I lives in this rural part of Dorset where they all hate me, about 4 miles away from where they shot "A touch of glass" episode, I sometimes take friends down to pose at the road sign at the start of the episode posing with the Robin in shot.

I did forget about the GMT thing, my daughter was born "abaft" the meridian apparently as in places around Greenwich often are yellow lines showing the meridian of east and west but the consultant said a lot about her being born in both the east and the west and I am like OK, I really didn't need to know all this.


----------



## 979greenwich

So, a Bushwacker and a Rude boy (Skinhead?). Bet you've got stories to tell


----------



## Dodgydruid

Oooo yes I was a very naughty boy back in the day, still I turned out alright with a bit o' army service and any fire left in me was put out by two amazing daughters and grandchildren and I am hoping my eldest grandson is gonna be a bit circumspect cos I don't want to be a great grandfather just yet and he's getting in the zone for noticing the girls 

The Specials of course were my all time favourites, they shot the video of Ghost Town all over Deptford and Bermondsey and I irritate my girls when I point out Gary Oldman's house or the bit just round the corner where Michael Caine grew up or tell tall tales of derring do in the pubs and clubs along Surrey Docks and then my girls throw stuff at me to shut me up  My eldest I love winding her up as she was born in Watford (pub opposite the hospital was owned by a die hard Millwall bloke) and I say to her about her being a pretend Londoner and she gets right cross. She's got one of my USSR ladies Sekonda's and I suspect she might be getting the watch bug as she has six of 'em outta me. My youngest takes care of the other USSR Sekonda and she's got a couple nice pieces. 

Dunno what it is with ladies watches but I have a shoe box of the damned things I pick up in broken job lots and fixed up, I tried giving them to a local food bank, local charity shop, if people visit they go away with one or two looking a little confused, all me neighbours pretend to be out if I knock on the door as when I sees them I say "hold on, got something for you" and slap a couple quartz pieces in their hands.


----------



## elsoldemayo

The franken makers aren't even trying to make it look right anymore


----------



## Dodgydruid

No doubt that was a barn find, one lady owner, prototype owned by Mother Theresa and privately blessed by the gods and serviced by the spirits of every Rolex master watchmaker that lived and died...?

I gotta say that piece looks grim.

I suspect my Komandirskie I just got is a franken, its in an Amphibia case, it has the amphibia case back, mag shield and ringed crystal but the dial and workings of a Komandirskie albeit an unusual Komandirskie dial with the grey painted submarine below the centre. The hands are like brand new with actually very good lume but the lume dots are very poor glow. It does look actually quite a nice Kom and maybe I will unfranken it if I get a spare movement and put the Kom stuff into a proper Komandirskie case.


----------



## Kamburov

I'm so confused when I "like" posts in this thread


----------



## thewatchadude

system11 said:


> If it fits in the case that's good enough!
> 
> View attachment 14818599


The Slava amateurs seem to take a different approach than the Raketa ones.


----------



## Odessa200

For lefties 🙂


----------



## pump 19

This looks like a creative use of odds and ends...The "24 hours Arctic Nothern Pole USSR"


----------



## Arizone




----------



## haha

I must admit I quite like this one


----------



## AaParker

Rare Poljot:


----------



## Odessa200

A super franken at a super ridiculous price.


----------



## mightymiloquinn

Yikes!


----------



## Ligavesh

Anyone saw this:










it says Slava mech. 17 jewels but then on the dial it clearly Slava Quartz










Nice band.










And the movement - def. not quartz. But it gets stranger - the description:










Slava with Raketa 2609 HA movement with date change - what?

Anyway, I'm planning on buying this watch and putting on a proper Raketa dial - or some other if I can't find the right one, but certainly not this goldish quartz Slava.


----------



## Ligavesh

****, so many typos, gotta edit all of them out...


----------



## Odessa200

The rarest and the prettiest. Lol.


----------



## frenchtreasure

"Movement running strong and reliable, several minutes fast a day".


----------



## stadiou

Interesting mix of parts there. Also in need of a service.


----------



## AaParker

Well, there's this:


----------



## elsoldemayo

Another mish-mash... but I kind of like it


----------



## Odessa200

AaParker said:


> Well, there's this:
> 
> View attachment 15429164


I saw this one as well. Too funny


----------



## Odessa200

Description is almost right. It has «Condition- New» But should have 'Condition- Newly faked'.

And the film with the red line on the back is just a cherry ? on top of the ?


----------



## Odessa200

And another one. Not technically a franken watch but a franken lot. Is that the Amphibia's passport I see? But the description says 'original receipt'. The guy obviously keeps the papers nicely folded not to expose the rest of the wrong info...

be careful! Lots of crooks there.


----------



## SuffolkGerryW

Odessa200 said:


> And another one. Not technically a franken watch but a franken lot. Is that the Amphibia's passport I see? But the description says 'original receipt'. The guy obviously keeps the papers nicely folded not to expose the rest of the wrong info...
> 
> be careful! Lots of crooks there.
> View attachment 15433658
> View attachment 15433659


Well, they do state "selling at a rediculous price for this watches"!


----------



## Avidfan

Vosmok  big zero currently on eBay...


----------



## SuffolkGerryW

See that they can't make up their minds whether to use Cryllic or English


----------



## Ligavesh

Nah, it's fine in cursive cyrillic - although Vostok has never used that type of lettering for the name "Vostok" of course


----------



## Ligavesh

My two favorite brands together, the magnificent Raketa Ocean!




























To be honest, this looks cool as hell. I'm very tempted to buy it, but for a franken it's too expensive; if it were half the price or thereabouts I would buy it in a heartbeat!


----------



## RobNJ

Ligavesh said:


> My two favorite brands together, the magnificent Raketa Ocean!
> 
> To be honest, this looks cool as hell. I'm very tempted to buy it, but for a franken it's too expensive; if it were half the price or thereabouts I would buy it in a heartbeat!


It has a Poljot-branded dial and a Poljot movement, so is there a chance that the seller simply doesn't know what he is talking about in calling it a Raketa? Is it possibly some sort of non-chronograph Ocean homage that emerged from the swamp of post-'92 Poljot evolutions and collaborations (Polmax, Denissov, etc. etc. - all of which I barely understand), but was actually produced in that form? Although I certainly agree about the $120.


----------



## Ligavesh

RobNJ said:


> It has a Poljot-branded dial and a Poljot movement, so is there a chance that the seller simply doesn't know what he is talking about in calling it a Raketa? Is it possibly some sort of non-chronograph Ocean homage that emerged from the swamp of post-'92 Poljot evolutions and collaborations (Polmax, Denissov, etc. etc. - all of which I barely understand), but was actually produced in that form? Although I certainly agree about the $120.


No idea, maybe? I wouldn't give more than 50-60 for it, though.


----------



## RobNJ

Ligavesh said:


> No idea, maybe? I wouldn't give more than 50-60 for it, though.


Yeah, after a little poking I see a couple of them around, all being advertised for more or less the same price. I still have no idea who or what brewed them up, but I'd concur that the offered price is a lot higher than I'd spend even if I knew the answer to that question.


----------



## Dodgydruid

Avidfan said:


> Vosmok  big zero currently on eBay...
> 
> View attachment 15441990


Hehe I saw that lol Made me chortle


----------



## Dodgydruid

Ligavesh said:


> My two favorite brands together, the magnificent Raketa Ocean!
> 
> View attachment 15447389
> 
> 
> View attachment 15447390
> 
> 
> View attachment 15447391
> 
> 
> To be honest, this looks cool as hell. I'm very tempted to buy it, but for a franken it's too expensive; if it were half the price or thereabouts I would buy it in a heartbeat!


Slava have done some "Okean-ish" where they have taken the dial theme and put it into a day-date and date theme, my Slava tank's auto movement was scavenged from the auto variant and I have the day variant with darker greys that are picked out with gilded lines.


----------



## Dodgydruid

OK, I have to put this in here, it really is such a funny situation for that arch ripper offer of watches Invicta has now fallen victim to the Chinese cloners and Invicta is NOT happy... see live by the sword, its double edged and no doubt Invicta threw a contract to the wrong Chinese factory who have sat there churning out millions of really bad fakes...









For Invicta Men Watch Pro Diver Quartz White/Blue/Gold Dial Black Bracelet | eBay


1 x Watch（Without box）/Watch box. I am willing to make every purchasing a happy one. Case Material: Stainless Steel. The real color of the item may be slightly different from the pictures shown on website caused by many factors such as brightness of your monitor and light brightness.



www.ebay.co.uk


----------



## elsoldemayo

The attempts to copy this dial are getting worse.


----------



## Kotsov

Dodgydruid said:


> OK, I have to put this in here, it really is such a funny situation for that arch ripper offer of watches Invicta has now fallen victim to the Chinese cloners and Invicta is NOT happy... see live by the sword, its double edged and no doubt Invicta threw a contract to the wrong Chinese factory who have sat there churning out millions of really bad fakes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For Invicta Men Watch Pro Diver Quartz White/Blue/Gold Dial Black Bracelet | eBay
> 
> 
> 1 x Watch（Without box）/Watch box. I am willing to make every purchasing a happy one. Case Material: Stainless Steel. The real color of the item may be slightly different from the pictures shown on website caused by many factors such as brightness of your monitor and light brightness.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.co.uk


It's been taken down....


----------



## fla

RobNJ said:


> It has a Poljot-branded dial and a Poljot movement, so is there a chance that the seller simply doesn't know what he is talking about in calling it a Raketa? Is it possibly some sort of non-chronograph Ocean homage that emerged from the swamp of post-'92 Poljot evolutions and collaborations (Polmax, Denissov, etc. etc. - all of which I barely understand), but was actually produced in that form? Although I certainly agree about the $120.


To be precise, inside is a Chaika 2609N movement, not Poljot, it's Chaika's logo near the balance wheel.


----------



## 979greenwich

I nominate this for All Stars:








Exceptional BOCTOK CCCP Vintage Mens Watch, Works Runs 52/50 | eBay


Außergewöhnliche Boctok CCCP. Werk läuft. getragener Zustand, siehe Fotos. ist daher nicht möglich. Hinweis auf Beteiligung am Befreiungssystem der Landbell AG.



www.ebay.com




How many watches died for this...? At least six?


----------



## dutchassasin

979greenwich said:


> I nominate this for All Stars:
> How many watches died for this...? At least six?


Better to post just a picture instead of a live auction. No chance its going under the radar anymore... thanks bud!


----------



## 979greenwich

You want this...? I could not imagine it's material for _"Unusual or collectable that I noticed for sale....not for me but may suit you" thread. _
My sincere apologies.


----------



## Odessa200

I would pay a few hundred $ right now to get it. Unfortunately we now all be bidding! Let the most generous person win!


----------



## Ligavesh

Odessa200 said:


> I would pay a few hundred $ right now to get it. Unfortunately we now all be bidding! Let the most generous person win!


It's not fair, I'm in for THREE Zlatoust divers, _and _Sadko, _and _I just bought that Tayfun 3133!


----------



## Kotsov

Ligavesh said:


> It's not fair, I'm in for THREE Zlatoust divers, _and _Sadko, _and _I just bought that Tayfun 3133!


Two Zlatousts, two sadkos, two electronikas, two compressors a lunar dude and more...


----------



## Kotsov

Kotsov said:


> Two Zlatousts, two sadkos, two electronikas, two compressors a lunar dude and more...


Forgot the Krondstat. Maybe a Pripyat.

Feel a bit sick now.


----------



## Ligavesh

Goddamn a lot of people are after that watch now 

I can't keep up as I'm fighting for a mint Ruhla Chronograph and a NOS Argo


----------



## 979greenwich

Ok, someone please explain it to me, i don't get it.


----------



## Ligavesh

979greenwich said:


> Ok, someone please explain it to me, i don't get it.


What's there to explain, it's a watch-collage from some of Vostok's most famous models - it's priceless!


----------



## Ligavesh




----------



## Ligavesh

@Odessa200 got it for sure


----------



## Dave_Hedgehog

I was following that auction on the off chance I could pick up some spares for a reasonable price, but that thing went for significantly more than I paid for my Soviet compressor!


----------



## MattBrace

Current market value is around 3 to 4k 
So whomever won just needs to source a dial and hands.

Cheers...


----------



## Ligavesh

MattBrace said:


> Current market value is around 3 to 4k
> So whomever won just needs to source a dial and hands.
> 
> Cheers...


yeah, I was thinking someone's gonna try rebuild the compressor... out of my league in any case


----------



## Ligavesh

I like how the price skyrocketed in the last minute though - it went from 170-180 straight to 1000


----------



## Odessa200

I decided not to bid. I do not have a dial and locking a grand into a project that I may never finish is not something I wanted to do. Even though the price is very attractive. I am sure it went to a person who has or can obtain missing parts so in a few weeks a brand new Compressor will be for sale.

personally, I probably can afford to buy a Comressor, a Sadko, and whatever else is there. Yes, will cost me 15, 30, 45K. Expensive but doable. People do this kind of things. But what next? This will kill my dreams and desire to search. Will kill all the excitement of a ‘hunt’ for a great watch. So I say firmly ‘NO’ to such offerers. I can see myself paying market price for Compressor in 3 situations:
1) I have all the watches I ever want and this is the last watch I need to complete my collection
2) I just need 1 watch to wear and I am certain I want to wear this particular watch
3) investment


----------



## MattBrace

Dials are suprisingly obtainable and of course vintage hands also. The hard parts are all there, chapter ring, case and caseback with correct serial number. 

The fact that many compressors surface with incorrect dials is interesting and perhaps gives a clue that some made it out of the factory unfinished (back door!)

Cheers...


----------



## Odessa200

MattBrace said:


> Dials are suprisingly obtainable and of course vintage hands also. The hard parts are all there, chapter ring, case and caseback with correct serial number.
> 
> The fact that many compressors surface with incorrect dials is interesting and perhaps gives a clue that some made it out of the factory unfinished (back door!)
> 
> Cheers...


or that someone had figured out how to make them


----------



## 979greenwich

Time to find out what the market value is. That's all I'll say this time.


MattBrace said:


> Current market value is around 3 to 4k
> So whomever won just needs to source a dial and hands.
> 
> Cheers...


----------



## Odessa200

franken!


----------



## Odessa200

*franken!







*


----------



## Odessa200

Franken!


----------



## Odessa200

Franken!


----------



## Ligavesh

Odessa200 said:


> Franken!
> View attachment 15537682


I got a similar... I knew it was franken but I love the dial and I got it for a lot less money... I might even buy a new case for it, 'frankenize' it even further 

edit: here's mine


----------



## Odessa200

Ligavesh said:


> I got a similar... I knew it was franken but I love the dial and I got it for a lot less money... I might even buy a new case for it, 'frankenize' it even further
> 
> edit: here's mine
> 
> View attachment 15537843


As long as you knew what you are buying is all good


----------



## Straight_time

MattBrace said:


> Current market value is around 3 to 4k
> So whomever won just needs to source a dial and hands.


Seller stated in the description _"Unfortunately, some animals tore off their legs_" (lol), but nevertheless somebody scored a big deal recently.












Odessa200 said:


> I would pay a few hundred $ right now to get it. *Unfortunately we now all be bidding!* Let the most generous person win!





Ligavesh said:


> Goddamn a lot of people are after that watch now
> *I can't keep up* as I'm fighting for a mint Ruhla Chronograph and a NOS Argo





Dave_Hedgehog said:


> *I was following that auction on the off chance I could pick up some spares for a reasonable price*, but that thing went for significantly more than I paid for my Soviet compressor!


And this should make it clear to some people why by WUS rules links to live auctions are explicitly forbidden and why the_ "Unusual or collectable that I noticed for sale" _thread should not exist_._..


----------



## MattBrace

For my part my comment was made after the auction end, it would be common knowledge as well if your looking to purchase such a watch. I do certainly understand what your saying.

Cheers...


----------



## Ligavesh

Straight_time said:


> Seller stated in the description _"Unfortunately, some animals tore off their legs_" (lol), but nevertheless somebody scored a big deal recently.
> 
> View attachment 15537945


Well the joke's on him/her, I'm not buying it once it's built - I bought way too many watches and the only watch I might buy now for over 500 euros would be a Tudor 33110 for some (very) special ocassion


----------



## elsoldemayo




----------



## Adrenaline96

elsoldemayo said:


> View attachment 15565848


Man, this one is ridiculous. You have the worn indices and dare putting hands with blazing white lume. Some people have no shame, it's not enough that it's a fraken, they also do this kind of stupid thing.


----------



## Dodgydruid

Sooo is this Mortima "stadium" a hit or a shi...?









Beautiful Very very rare Vintage MORTIMA Stadion Men's dress watch from 1970's! | eBay


Very fine watch! In life more beautiful than the pictures! obtain a of the original, here is a good option for a nice, elegant watch. Dial: Beautiful blue colored. The 60's-80's years were a popular type is deservedly renowned France.



www.ebay.co.uk


----------



## Chascomm

Dodgydruid said:


> Sooo is this Mortima "stadium" a hit or a shi...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Very very rare Vintage MORTIMA Stadion Men's dress watch from 1970's! | eBay
> 
> 
> Very fine watch! In life more beautiful than the pictures! obtain a of the original, here is a good option for a nice, elegant watch. Dial: Beautiful blue colored. The 60's-80's years were a popular type is deservedly renowned France.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.co.uk


Looking at the case from the back, it does not look like a Poljot Stadium case or case back. The Ronda movement is the sort of thing that I would expect in a Mortima watch. Therefore I take this to be an authentic Mortima watch in the stadium style. Omega also did a watch in this general style.


----------



## 979greenwich

Movement is french, Cattin, as is the watch.


----------



## Chascomm

979greenwich said:


> Movement is french, Cattin, as is the watch.


Thanks. My mistake. I didn't realise they did a 21 jewel version.


----------



## SkinnoPT

I have one watch that a friend gave me a little destroyed from Paul buhre but I think it's a franken or fake
Maybe a marriage from a pocket watch.


----------



## Ligavesh

The watch itself isn't franken, but the price is:









Automatic Made in Russia Wostok Amphibia 31 RUBIES Underwater 200m 2b | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Automatic Made in Russia Wostok Amphibia 31 RUBIES Underwater 200m 2b at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## elsoldemayo

Wow, thought it might have been a typo, 890.99 when they really meant 89.99 but no, all the sellers watches have the decimal point in the wrong place :O


----------



## SuffolkGerryW

elsoldemayo said:


> Wow, thought it might have been a typo, 890.99 when they really meant 89.99 but no, all the sellers watches have the decimal point in the wrong place :O


Except for the 'Joefox' ones - certainly all the Russian ones, thought that the 'UK official' guy on eBay was expensive, but this one takes first place!


----------



## Avidfan

Ligavesh said:


> The watch itself isn't franken, but the price is:
> 
> http://[URL]https://www.ebay.com/it...-2B/232787295492?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


Look again...definitely a franken!


----------



## SuffolkGerryW

Avidfan said:


> Look again...definitely a franken!


??? It's a new watch, how can it be franken? SE, maybe.


----------



## Avidfan

SuffolkGerryW said:


> ??? It's a new watch, how can it be franken? SE, maybe.


Not quite as new as it seems! That calendar font is from the 1990's as hasn't been used by Vostok for at least the last 20 years, and I don't know who makes those hands but it's not Vostok.

So new case and dial, with an old movement and hands from who knows where...

Luckily for us the seller doesn't ship to the UK


----------



## SuffolkGerryW

Avidfan said:


> Not quite as new as it seems! That calendar font is from the 1990's as hasn't been used by Vostok for at least the last 20 years, and I don't know who makes those hands but it's not Vostok.
> 
> So new case and dial, with an old movement and hands from who knows where...
> 
> Luckily for us the seller doesn't ship to the UK


And at those prices, doubt that they ship much anywhere


----------



## SinanjuStein

Avidfan said:


> Not quite as new as it seems! That calendar font is from the 1990's as hasn't been used by Vostok for at least the last 20 years, and I don't know who makes those hands but it's not Vostok.
> 
> So new case and dial, with an old movement and hands from who knows where...
> 
> Luckily for us the seller doesn't ship to the UK


I thought the same when i saw the soviet era font on the calendar, hands look off as well but i can see it now as the hour hand arrow looks out of shape.

Guess if you're trying to sell a Vostok for a grand it might as well be a unique.


----------



## Avidfan

SinanjuStein said:


> I thought the same when i saw the soviet era font on the calendar, hands look off as well but i can see it now as the hour hand arrow looks out of shape.
> 
> Guess if you're trying to sell a Vostok for a grand it might as well be a unique.


This is a good example of if you want a new Amphibia then buy from a reputable seller such as Meranom, but I don't think that particular watch although unique is going to be sold anytime soon...


----------



## Rimmed762

Description is worth checking too.


----------



## SuffolkGerryW

Rimmed762 said:


> Description is worth checking too.


As in "Soviet production" with "Made in Russia" on the dial?


----------



## Rimmed762

Yup. Very interesting realm there is. 🤔


----------



## Ligavesh

SuffolkGerryW said:


> As in "Soviet production" with "Made in Russia" on the dial?


"Soviet" is the magic word, @Odessa200 would know


----------



## Odessa200

Time to bring this old topic to the top. We must know the 'ebay heros'! They not only push boundaries for vandalizing watches but also establish new horizons for the prices for these rare products


----------



## Roman Ukraine

Odessa200 said:


> but also establish new horizons for the prices


for $ 2,500, the strap must be made of Stalin's mustache


----------



## thewatchadude




----------



## PiotrS

Now in bay...


----------



## elcogollero

De Colección Reloj socialista comunista soviética Sekonda | eBay


Las mejores ofertas para De Colección Reloj socialista comunista soviética Sekonda están en eBay ✓ Compara precios y características de productos nuevos y usados ✓ Muchos artículos con envío gratis!



www.ebay.es


----------



## Kotsov

thewatchadude said:


>


----------



## Ligavesh

Russische mech. Armbanduhr ,Handaufzug , mit Weckerfunktion , selten | eBay


Finden Sie Top-Angebote für Russische mech. Armbanduhr ,Handaufzug , mit Weckerfunktion , selten bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!



www.ebay.de


----------



## AaParker

An example of "collaboration" by Chistopol, Petrodvorets, and 1mchz (and *make* that 18mm band FIT!) ?


----------



## stadiou

Not designed by Chasprom.


----------



## AaParker

If you're going to just write the brand on the dial, shouldn't you at least write in the correct brand?


----------



## Odessa200

AaParker said:


> If you're going to just write the brand on the dial, shouldn't you at least right in the correct brand?
> 
> View attachment 15877626


nope. You write what can give you the biggest profit


----------



## palletwheel

At this point do we just make a thread for "Sovietish" watches and quit? I've only just got started but man it looks to me that the Frankens far outweigh the real deal. Is the only way to really collect is to buy up huge numbers of dubious watches cheaply and then de-Franken as many as possible yourself?


----------



## stadiou

palletwheel said:


> At this point do we just make a thread for "Sovietish" watches and quit? I've only just got started but man it looks to me that the Frankens far outweigh the real deal. Is the only way to really collect is to buy up huge numbers of dubious watches cheaply and then de-Franken as many as possible yourself?


Do please bear in mind that for many in the former Soviet bloc their watch was a tool to be used and fixed as cheaply as possible with whatever parts the watch repairer had to hand so many frankens have actually been "wrong" probably for more years than they have been "correct"! This, however, does not excuse the blatant modern fakes done for profit.


----------



## SinanjuStein

Well since you're giving the thread a bit of life.


























The cuts on the lugs honestly don't look that rough. Or was there ever a case like this made and i'm being a tad silly?


----------



## palletwheel

stadiou said:


> Do please bear in mind that for many in the former Soviet bloc their watch was a tool to be used and fixed as cheaply as possible with whatever parts the watch repairer had to hand so many frankens have actually been "wrong" probably for more years than they have been "correct"! This, however, does not excuse the blatant modern fakes done for profit.


Is it possible to hazard a guess as to what percentage actually managed to survive intact? One thought that occurred to me as well is that many people may have already brought together enormous numbers of used pieces, built out of them the best correct watches, sold those, and monetized the remainder as "cutlets". If that sounds reasonable, are the best things for the most part already in collections, leaving mostly Frankens?


----------



## elsoldemayo

Wow... just wow


----------



## Rocket1991

Roman Ukraine said:


> for $ 2,500, the strap must be made of Stalin's mustache


You made my day!!!!!


----------



## Ligavesh

It even comes with matching papers!


----------



## Odessa200

Here is another great one. New! Just a few screws missing. Hard to find what is right with this watch.


----------



## Atlantia

elsoldemayo said:


> Wow... just wow
> 
> View attachment 15891292


Noooo, my eyes!


----------



## SinanjuStein

I'm being very specific about not giving this article a designated thread. This goes downhill _real_ fast.









9 Best Russian Watches & Soviet Watch Brands


Presenting the best Russian and Soviet watches, from brands such as Vostok, Raketa, Sturmanskie, and Poljot.




manofmany.com





This is quite a way to misinform with imagery.


----------



## Odessa200

SinanjuStein said:


> I'm being very specific about not giving this article a designated thread. This goes downhill _real_ fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9 Best Russian Watches & Soviet Watch Brands
> 
> 
> Presenting the best Russian and Soviet watches, from brands such as Vostok, Raketa, Sturmanskie, and Poljot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manofmany.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is quite a way to misinform with imagery.


Wow. What a scam artists


----------



## Odessa200

This thread did not see updates for a while. Time to fix this with this ‘splendid’ example of ‘all original’ Sputnik!


----------



## PiotrS

Only a beautiful and rare dial and hand


----------



## PiotrS

Sturmanski in the new case .


----------



## ill-phill

Just when you thought you've seen it all


----------



## 979greenwich

I hope Chistopol didn't manufacture fake subdials (like Slava).


----------



## Dave_R

ooppps... just bought this....









Poljot Alarm....is it OK?


Hi, i am quite new to Russian watches, and had a hankering for an alarm watch. I saw this and won it on evilbay.......does it look genuine? I know there are a lot of frankens, and that i will inevitabley buy one at some point, but i am hoping this is not that point. I ask those who know about...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## elsoldemayo

I wonder what the additional pushers do....


----------



## RobNJ

elsoldemayo said:


> I wonder what the additional pushers do....
> 
> View attachment 16259615


I think they're to mash in frustration while regretting your life choices, sort of like the "close door" button on an elevator.


----------



## randocheapwatchperson

I'm pretty sure I have acquired another franken but it was cute (in a monstrous way) and not terribly expensive

















it looks like a case from a quartz slava, dial and hands from an electro-mechanical luch and a 2209


----------



## rikala

Here is my own tribute! 

I put a Vostok movement and dial I had laying around in a Slava case. I had to use an extender for the crown. 

I am not selling this, just to use for myself and I probably will dissamble it when I'm tired of it...


----------



## AaParker

Seeing the full numerals is a distraction anyway:


----------



## Kotsov

elsoldemayo said:


> I wonder what the additional pushers do....
> 
> View attachment 16259615



Fake Daytona case?


----------



## randocheapwatchperson

Not quite frankens but a taobao seller has these 'Peterhof Big Zero-inspired' ones  . The text says 东方红/ The East is Red and 人民公社好/ People's Communes Are Good


----------



## willjackson

Hey F10! Ready to pull the trigger on this one, but I can't find a catalog listing. Has anyone seen this listed in any Raketa catalogs? Thanx in advance comrades.









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## RedFroggy

willjackson said:


> Hey F10! Ready to pull the trigger on this one, but I can't find a catalog listing. Has anyone seen this listed in any Raketa catalogs? Thanx in advance comrades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


It was a model made exclusively for an Italian distributor. I doubt you’ll find it in a Raketa catalogue.








Unique Soviet Watches In The Italian Market: Raketa


In our first instalment, we talked in general terms about special Soviet designs for the Italian market. In this post, I want to talk about the role played by Raketa in this market. As you may well…




www.safonagastrocrono.club


----------



## willjackson

RedFroggy said:


> It was a model made exclusively for an Italian distributor. I doubt you’ll find it in a Raketa catalogue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unique Soviet Watches In The Italian Market: Raketa
> 
> 
> In our first instalment, we talked in general terms about special Soviet designs for the Italian market. In this post, I want to talk about the role played by Raketa in this market. As you may well…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.safonagastrocrono.club


Thanks Red. Didn't think of the Italian market. Goodbye sweet money! Thanks again. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Odessa200

Check this out. The description is what made it for me!
What a scumbag…


----------



## rikala

Odessa200 said:


> Check this out. The description is what made it for me!
> What a scumbag…
> 
> View attachment 16574570
> 
> View attachment 16574572


And a blurry photo of course! Are the other photos just as bad? 

Looks like the crown is worn, or is it just reflection?

Is the case NOS? So many questions.

I guess it's a completly new dial that should never have existed in this case, right?


----------



## Odessa200

rikala said:


> And a blurry photo of course! Are the other photos just as bad?
> 
> Looks like the crown is worn, or is it just reflection?
> 
> Is the case NOS? So many questions.
> 
> I guess it's a completly new dial that should never have existed in this case, right?


correct. It is a fantasy dial in a Zim case with God knows what inside.


----------



## stadiou

Errrm.... that thing is an absolute mess. Probably still powered by the ancient Zim 2602 underneath that fancy fake dial.


----------



## tranzchina

This is one of my favorite frankens. Selling for a lovely 200USD only. The title says "the only one on the internet"; thank God that is true. My favourite touch is the luminous paint on the Copernicus hour and minute hands for that extra scary in the dark mood it gives.
















Shame is the original Raketa is a nice watch.


----------



## AaParker

The seller describes this as rare; I guess it could be as it is certainly not well done.


----------



## Odessa200

AaParker said:


> The seller describes this as rare; I guess it could be as it is certainly not well done.
> 
> 
> View attachment 16608043


I saw it too. I just wander what goes on in the head of the ‘artist’ when he produced something like this. Is he happy with the results?


----------



## AaParker

Odessa200 said:


> I saw it too. I just wander what goes on in the head of the ‘artist’ when he produced something like this. Is he happy with the results?


Exactly, why would anyone do that? It looks like it was a nice watch before it was embellished.


----------



## Chascomm

AaParker said:


> Exactly, why would anyone do that? It looks like it was a nice watch before it was embellished.


Legibility. Here is a watch that my grandfather altered for his own use:
View media item 15252512The wristwatch that he was given on his retirement had a black dial and he painted the hands white so that my blind grandmother could use it.


----------



## AaParker

Chascomm said:


> Legibility. Here is a watch that my grandfather altered for his own use:
> View media item 15252512The wristwatch that he was given on his retirement had a black dial and he painted the hands white so that my blind grandmother could use it.


That makes perfect sense.


----------



## RedFroggy

Odessa200 said:


> I saw it too. I just wander what goes on in the head of the ‘artist’ when he produced something like this. Is he happy with the results?


" why did I buy my boy that damned coloring paint set..."


----------



## Odessa200

Chascomm said:


> Legibility. Here is a watch that my grandfather altered for his own use:
> View media item 15252512The wristwatch that he was given on his retirement had a black dial and he painted the hands white so that my blind grandmother could use it.


i understand paining hands and dial like your farther did. I do NOT understand butchering the dial like that watch on sale.


----------



## AaParker

And in a scene of Lovecraftian horror, the earth is consumed by a giant monster:


----------



## AaParker

Yikes!


----------



## 979greenwich

Perpetual Polar Cities Copernic. Nice.








RAKETA Kopernik Copernic VINTAGE Soviet Watch Mechanical ‘Astronomy’ | eBay


<p>RAKETA Kopernik Copernic VINTAGE Soviet Watch Mechanical ‘Astronomy’. </p><br /><p>A very cool, vintage Raketa Copernic ‘Astronomy’ mechanical watch. Runs great and keeps great time when wound. Bought a new leather strap for it and only wore it TWICE..! The World Timer function/second crown...



www.ebay.com


----------



## Ligavesh

willjackson said:


> Hey F10! Ready to pull the trigger on this one, but I can't find a catalog listing. Has anyone seen this listed in any Raketa catalogs? Thanx in advance comrades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I'm a bit late to this party, but legit Raketa or not, the words for nine and ten are mixed up - either it was made by non-Russians with the permission by Raketa, or it's simply a franken.


----------



## 979greenwich

Unique Soviet Watches In The Italian Market: Raketa


In our first instalment, we talked in general terms about special Soviet designs for the Italian market. In this post, I want to talk about the role played by Raketa in this market. As you may well…




www.safonagastrocrono.club





_"One of the houses mainly affected by this phenomenon was Raketa. In addition to official production, there were several models marked as “Raketa” but which the management of the brand has defined as fake.
In Italy, for example, the “Raky”, the “Big 0” or the “Gaigher”, as well as many other models in which there were grammatical errors in the Cyrillic text, or a mix of Latin and Cyrillic characters on the same watch, became really famous. The phenomenon assumed such a dimension that some of these pieces have become highly coveted and it is not unusual to find collectors who base part of their collection on these pieces.
In this author’s opinion, it is hard to define these watches as fake from a strictly legal point of view. Rather, the importers, likely taking advantage of the difficult situation facing the factories after the collapse of the Soviet Union, obtained authorisation to use the brand name when producing their own watches with Russian movements and cases and “invented” ad hoc dials that matched the fashion at the time."_


----------



## Kotsov

Ligavesh said:


> I'm a bit late to this party, but legit Raketa or not, the words for nine and ten are mixed up - either it was made by non-Russians with the permission by Raketa, or it's simply a franken.


The spacing of the hour markers looks way out too


----------



## Ligavesh

Kotsov said:


> The spacing of the hour markers looks way out too


Yeah, the 'nine' (although it says 'ten', 'nine' is at 10 o'clock) should be lower, clumsy work.


----------



## ned-ludd

Seen just now on ebay.
















The first says "This watch will emphasize your uniqueness! Show your personality! Do not repeat the hours of others!"
The second claims "Watch is original."


----------



## 979greenwich

Yes, original Baker Goroda. No other like it.


----------



## Odessa200

What is wrong here? Pretty much everything. Fake dial. Wrong case. Wrong hand. Paper from Luch…. Pathetic attempt to find a sucker to pay 500$.


----------



## Odessa200

Be careful. Faker on ebay. Dial, bezel, case, hands: all is fake in this watch. The Goroda sets of fake parts are for sale on Russian sites and now crooks like this one will be trying to sell fake Goroda watches! Stay vigilant!


----------



## Kotsov

Looks nice though...


----------



## Odessa200

Kotsov said:


> Looks nice though...


Bezel does look nice. Crooked minute marks on the dial would drive me nuts! Horrendous job. Case is done well except the opening notch that is cut for a screwdriver rather than a watchmaker’s knife  The hands are not bad. I would be more inclined to say ‘well done remake’ if the seller disclose that this is not authentic but of course people take an easy road to full people. So he deserves only condemnation….


----------



## 979greenwich

Yes, I've already seen Gorodas that look to good to be true. Pretty convincing.


----------



## Kotsov

They are still watches, and unfortunately, or fortunately now part of the history. 

Let's not be sniffy?


----------



## Odessa200

Kotsov said:


> They are still watches, and unfortunately, or fortunately now part of the history.
> 
> Let's not be sniffy?


I do not mind reproduction watches. All I am asking for is for sellers to disclose that. Especially sellers that specialize in selling watches.


----------



## palletwheel

From a western perspective its a real education to see so much effort go into selling something fake like this for $200 USD (and free shipping!). These days that's dinner for two in a decent restaurant in NYC, NOT including drinks (maybe two cocktails).


----------



## EnjoyWatches

palletwheel said:


> From a western perspective its a real education to see so much effort go into selling something fake like this for $200 USD (and free shipping!). These days that's dinner for two in a decent restaurant in NYC, NOT including drinks (maybe two cocktails).


I would say you express a NYC point of view. In the Netherlands you can have a decent dinner for two for half that money, including wine!


----------



## palletwheel

EnjoyWatches said:


> I would say you express a NYC point of view. In the Netherlands you can have a decent dinner for two for half that money, including wine!


Time for me to learn Dutch....


----------



## Kotsov

palletwheel said:


> Time for me to learn Dutch....


You could go Dutch?


----------



## palletwheel

Kotsov said:


> You could go Dutch?


From an NYC perspective it can be cheaper to fly to the Netherlands, have dinner, spend a night in Amsterdam, and come back than have dinner in some seemingly low key restaurants in the city. I mean, in all seriousness I've opened some winelists to find $5,000 USD bottles of Echezeaux while I was looking for something decent that knocks off two of those zeros. It takes a moment for that to sink in when you experience it. So no, I really mean learn Dutch....


----------



## EnjoyWatches

palletwheel said:


> From an NYC perspective it can be cheaper to fly to the Netherlands, have dinner, spend a night in Amsterdam, and come back than have dinner in some seemingly low key restaurants in the city. I mean, in all seriousness I've opened some winelists to find $5,000 USD bottles of Echezeaux while I was looking for something decent that knocks off two of those zeros. It takes a moment for that to sink in when you experience it. So no, I really mean learn Dutch....


This wine is for sale with us for around 300 euro, so I guess someone in NYC is getting rich pretty fast ….
Other tip: go to the countryside of France, Italy or Greece and learn from the locals. You will stay well below 50 euro per bottle.
Cheers!


----------



## palletwheel

EnjoyWatches said:


> This wine is for sale with us for around 300 euro, so I guess someone in NYC is getting rich pretty fast ….
> Other tip: go to the countryside of France, Italy or Greece and learn from the locals. You will stay well below 50 euro per bottle.
> Cheers!


Yes indeed. You can read about our idiot mayor's notion of a good time for the 1% (as if this is how the rest of us are supposed to "revitalize" NYC) here:



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/nyregion/eric-adams-la-baia-zero-bond.html



There's a paywall but NYT usually gives an allowance for links.


----------



## 979greenwich

Odessa200 said:


> Bezel does look nice. Crooked minute marks on the dial would drive me nuts! Horrendous job. Case is done well except the opening notch that is cut for a screwdriver rather than a watchmaker’s knife  The hands are not bad. I would be more inclined to say ‘well done remake’ if the seller disclose that this is not authentic but of course people take an easy road to full people. So he deserves only condemnation….


BTW, as is the case with Big Zero dial, seems that counterfeiters don't have the upside-down v in arsenal and instead use л. (see Alaska on the bezel).


----------



## 979greenwich

Someone once said there are no fake NVCH-30 casebacks out there.
Well, it was a matter of time.








NOS. VOSTOK Amphibia / Watch Wostok ushastaya 30 - Etsy


This Mens Wrist Watches item by MilitaryUAforUSA has 3 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Sep 25, 2022




www.etsy.com












NOS. VOSTOK Amphibia / Watch Wostok ushastaya 30 - Etsy


This Mens Wrist Watches item is sold by MilitaryUAforUSA. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Sep 25, 2022




www.etsy.com


----------



## Odessa200

979greenwich said:


> Someone once said there are no fake NVCH-30 casebacks out there.
> Well, it was a matter of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NOS. VOSTOK Amphibia / Watch Wostok ushastaya 30 - Etsy
> 
> 
> This Mens Wrist Watches item by MilitaryUAforUSA has 3 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Sep 25, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.etsy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NOS. VOSTOK Amphibia / Watch Wostok ushastaya 30 - Etsy
> 
> 
> This Mens Wrist Watches item is sold by MilitaryUAforUSA. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Sep 25, 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.etsy.com


And accompanied by tye rest of fake component . A complete waste of 580$


----------



## Chascomm

979greenwich said:


> Someone once said there are no fake NVCH-30 casebacks out there.
> Well, it was a matter of time.
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> NOS. VOSTOK Amphibia / Watch Wostok ushastaya 30 - Etsy
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> This Mens Wrist Watches item by MilitaryUAforUSA has 3 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Sep 25, 2022
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> www.etsy.com
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> NOS. VOSTOK Amphibia / Watch Wostok ushastaya 30 - Etsy
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> This Mens Wrist Watches item is sold by MilitaryUAforUSA. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Sep 25, 2022
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> www.etsy.com


The case back ring looks cast rather than machined. If that is so, then based on previous reports on this forum, the back will only fit a counterfeit case. I think we might be looking at a total fake.
Compare with the real thing here: Vostok NVCh-30 History & Reference Guide | Vintage Watch Inc 

Unlike the famous Ukrainian black bezel, this one has two of the numbers upside down. Must be something like the faker's signature.


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## lexei

This watch has nothing to do with the Raketa, not with Italy. This is a Chinese fantasy. Only four words are spelled correctly, the rest is just a set of letters.


willjackson said:


> Hey F10! Ready to pull the trigger on this one, but I can't find a catalog listing. Has anyone seen this listed in any Raketa catalogs? Thanx in advance comrades.
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> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Chascomm

lexei said:


> This watch has nothing to do with the Raketa, not with Italy. This is a Chinese fantasy. Only four words are spelled correctly, the rest is just a set of letters.


Did you read the article above which stated that the dials were made in Italy but all the other parts were sourced from Russia. I doubt that China was anywhere in the supply chain back in the 1990s.


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## lexei

Chascomm said:


> Did you read the article above which stated that the dials were made in Italy but all the other parts were sourced from Russia. I doubt that China was anywhere in the supply chain back in the 1990s.


Good afternoon. Of course, I read the article and did not find any contradictions with what I said. The author of the article only expresses his own opinion on this issue and does not provide any substantiated evidence for his words. Some of his conclusions are not based on real facts, but on scary stories about the USSR. It's very funny. The fact is that in the 80s, many Soviet brands supplied to Europe and Asia not only finished products, but also individual parts, mostly finished mechanisms. And sales volumes of mechanisms several times exceeded sales volumes of finished products. They were sold to small companies that could not afford to purchase expensive mechanisms. About the same as Sellita does now. That is, in order to assemble watches from Soviet components, there was no need to contact Soviet manufacturers directly. You could buy everything you need from the supplier, and order the dials anywhere. If I buy a Rolex movement and assemble a watch with it, will that watch be a Rolex? Does Rolex recognize the watch I have assembled as original?


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## RedFroggy

lexei said:


> This watch has nothing to do with the Raketa, not with Italy. This is a Chinese fantasy.


From what I read on Italian Forums, subject to those Italian collectors being correct, those watches were the product of an Italian Cie made for the Italian Market. and therefore not "a Chinese Fantasy" .


They used 100% original cases and movements made & purchased from Raketa,
The Italian Cie designed the dials to appeal to their Italian clients. Not sure where the dials were made, maybe you are right about China (?),
The high quality strap were probably sourced in Italy.

This is what I read , I am not stating hard truth but the all important question here is the legality of the use of the brand name "Raketa" .
a) Without a legal agreement , those are IMO , fake Raketa, but not counterfeits. "Italian Fantasy" would be an appropriate way to call them maybe ? 

b) However, if the use of the Raketa name had been approved by the Petrodvorets Watch Factory (as a trade-off to secure the much needed sale of cases & movements) those watches are indeed "Italian Raketa".


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## 979greenwich

Chascomm said:


> The case back ring looks cast rather than machined. If that is so, then based on previous reports on this forum, the back will only fit a counterfeit case. I think we might be looking at a total fake.
> Compare with the real thing here: Vostok NVCh-30 History & Reference Guide | Vintage Watch Inc
> 
> Unlike the famous Ukrainian black bezel, this one has two of the numbers upside down. Must be something like the faker's signature.


Yes, apparently now we have complete fakes, case included:









Watch VOSTOK Amphibian 30 ATM / AMFIBIA "Ushastaya" cal. 2209 | eBay


VOSTOK Amphibian AMFIBIA "Ushastaya" eared swing lugs watch 2209. Caliber of clockwork: 2209. Watch shape: Round. Number of jewels: 18 Jewels. Lug width: W - 18 mm. Year of manufacture: 1970-1979. Country/Region of manufacture: USSR.



www.ebay.com


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## 979greenwich

I see the demand is high, even with a fake dial. Heads up!









VOSTOK AMPHIBIAN BANANA 2409A RUSSIAN SOVIET USSR DIVER MILITARY WATCH 1980s NR | eBay


VERY BEAUTIFUL WRISTWATCH. Every year the price for them will increase only! This watch also can be a good gift or a personal worthy subject for you. A nice addition to your WristWatch collection. One of the best characteristics of this type of watch is its durability.



www.ebay.com


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## Odessa200

979greenwich said:


> I see the demand is high, even with a fake dial. Heads up!
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> VOSTOK AMPHIBIAN BANANA 2409A RUSSIAN SOVIET USSR DIVER MILITARY WATCH 1980s NR | eBay
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> VERY BEAUTIFUL WRISTWATCH. Every year the price for them will increase only! This watch also can be a good gift or a personal worthy subject for you. A nice addition to your WristWatch collection. One of the best characteristics of this type of watch is its durability.
> 
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> www.ebay.com


Many who bid did not realize that it is fake.


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## 979greenwich

That's why I posted. Now let's see how much $ can a frankenmaster make.


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## mpvick

It truly amazes me how long this has been alive I remember following it when i was in my junior year of high school after buying one of those “nos 24hr raketa’s”


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## Odessa200

20 ‘100% authentic’ Vimpels for sale


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## 979greenwich

979greenwich said:


> That's why I posted. Now let's see how much $ can a frankenmaster make.


$188.50 + shipping. Not bad.


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## Odessa200

979greenwich said:


> $188.50 + shipping. Not bad.


round 2 started. 1st naive people buy fake watches and reward the fakers then they complain ‘too many fake ls on ebay’.


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## Odessa200

The guy is improving. Now he added lume! Be vigilant!


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## Odessa200

And one more from the same seller… Fake parade!


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## RedFroggy

Odessa200 said:


> And one more from the same seller… Fake parade!
> 
> View attachment 17018345


Odessa … except the day/date that has been swapped , what is wrong ? Thanks


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## Odessa200

RedFroggy said:


> Odessa … except the day/date that has been swapped , what is wrong ? Thanks


O no! This is a complete fake. Dial is fake. Bezel is fake. Hands are fake. Case is fake!!! Movement probably real 

Take a look at the minute markers: see how they are crooked? Then closely look at the bezel: the text for all cities is same and real has it different.
the back of the case has an notch to open the cover that you can only put a screwdriver in (I guess this is what fakers use to open cases): the watchmaker knife will not fit. Etc. etc. 
It is a nicely done replica (lots of effort went into making parts) but, as usual, it has imperfections that a true original does not have.


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## 979greenwich

Even experienced collectors can't believe someone would go through all that trouble to fake a russian watch. The rookies don't stand a chance.


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## RedFroggy

Odessa200 said:


> O no! This is a complete fake. Dial is fake. Bezel is fake. Hands are fake. Case is fake!!! Movement probably real
> 
> Take a look at the minute markers: see how they are crooked? Then closely look at the bezel: the text for all cities is same and real has it different.
> the back of the case has an notch to open the cover that you can only put a screwdriver in (I guess this is what fakers use to open cases): the watchmaker knife will not fit. Etc. etc.
> It is a nicely done replica (lots of effort went into making parts) but, as usual, it has imperfections that a true original does not have.


I only have your pic but now I see what you mean with indices - Thanks VM for opening my eyes Odessa


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## Johanaxe66

979greenwich said:


> Yes, apparently now we have complete fakes, case included:
> 
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> Watch VOSTOK Amphibian 30 ATM / AMFIBIA "Ushastaya" cal. 2209 | eBay
> 
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> VOSTOK Amphibian AMFIBIA "Ushastaya" eared swing lugs watch 2209. Caliber of clockwork: 2209. Watch shape: Round. Number of jewels: 18 Jewels. Lug width: W - 18 mm. Year of manufacture: 1970-1979. Country/Region of manufacture: USSR.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


I just reported this and three similar objects sold by the same seller as fake to ebay.


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## 979greenwich

A guy on Reddit is selling a bunch of fake Big Zeros claiming they are NOS.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexchange/comments/yyspa8


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## lexei

Just add a movement.


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## Odessa200

The guy takes it to the next level: fake dial and file papers!


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