# Hamilton Pan Europ Relaunch 2012 Model



## LambChopFamily (Mar 1, 2012)

Had anyone heard any news that Hamilton will be bringing out The Pan Europ as a mainstream model?

I am asking because I am trying to hunt down a 2011 Limited Pan Europ but if they are going to launch a 2012 one then I might be better off ordering one from my AD.


While I am enquiring about pre-owned/ NOS 2011 Pan Europ. I got a reply from a German dealer: -

Dear Mr. Yun,

the pan europ is no longer available as a limited edition.
After Basel 2012 it comes a new pan europ not limited in black and steel

Best regards,

Gerd Judas
Heyder-Exclusiv.de

Any thoughts or rumour heard????


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## Robbyman (Jan 21, 2012)

There is one on Ebay now from a Swiss seller, I do not know this person but there is one if you want it. 

Great watch I love mine, I hope they bring it out so others can have one too, hopefully in different colours so I could own two!


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## CGSshorty (Aug 16, 2009)

That is accurate. There will be black and silver dial models available. No more blue.


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## jnelson3097 (Mar 28, 2010)

I saw the pics on the public forum on timezone. The silver dial looks amazing.


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## Cypher (Sep 23, 2010)

Link please?


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## Robbyman (Jan 21, 2012)

As good as the 1971?


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## opt (Aug 24, 2011)

Link: DIVE (into) WATCHES - dive watch blog: Tauchgang in Basel (2)

I think I like the black dial more but I have to see the silver one in a different lightning to be sure...


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## Blue bird (Feb 11, 2009)

The new models are nice.
Having owned a 2011 limited edition myself though, I'd have to say that the blue dial is still the nicest.


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## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

Blue bird said:


> The new models are nice.
> Having owned a 2011 limited edition myself though, I'd have to say that the blue dial is still the nicest.


agree. if I had to pick one of these relaunch models I think the silver looks great. might be giving that one a second glance once they are available. wonder if they will offer different sizes?


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## Cybotron (Dec 7, 2006)

They should make these new models 42mm. Keep it closer to the original.


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## Watchyman (Mar 4, 2010)

They shoud have a higher WR rating so they could be dive watches


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## Robbyman (Jan 21, 2012)

Black dial does look the best from the two, but I prefer the 1971 in blue. I am not just saying that because I have one but it is just soo pretty on the eye. Even though, I may pick up another when I see them in the flesh. 

Well done to Hamilton to test the water with the 1971 and having seen the great response followed up on the demand. They will sell loads of these news ones and they know it and the best of luck to them. 

Also, forget about the 42m argument. I have 6.5 inch wrists and I fits great. I would never go for a PO 45.5 but the PE at 45 is perfect due to th compactness. Don't believe me? Just try one of the new ones when they are out.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm pretty interested in the silver one, but I love the blue. I would have pulled the trigger but I'm a little nervous about the size so I don't want to buy it without trying it on first.

It reminds me a little of the Jack Heuer 80th birthday limited edition Carrera, which I love. Even if Hamilton charges $1,971 it's 60% less expensive and a more desirable movement, even if the Heuer has better looks.


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## TGE (Apr 24, 2011)

Perseus said:


> It reminds me a little of the Jack Heuer 80th birthday limited edition Carrera, which I love. Even if Hamilton charges $1,971 it's 60% less expensive and a more desirable movement, even if the Heuer has better looks.


Funny, I thought the same thing! I really do like this silver dialed one.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

TGE said:


> Funny, I thought the same thing! I really do like this silver dialed one.


I see SOOO much value in Hamilton I'm not sure I want to pay for the Tag. Maybe after seeing both watches in person. I also thought about painting the hands on the new Hamilton Jazzmaster Auto Chrono and put it on a rallye strap. Heck I could buy both the Jazzmaster and the Pan-Europ for the price of the Tag!









*not my pic


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## TGE (Apr 24, 2011)

Perseus said:


> I see SOOO much value in Hamilton I'm not sure I want to pay for the Tag. Maybe after seeing both watches in person. I also thought about painting the hands on the new Hamilton Jazzmaster Auto Chrono and put it on a rallye strap. Heck I could buy both the Jazzmaster and the Pan-Europ for the price of the Tag!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd say definitely the TAG Chrono beats the Hammy Jazzmaster head-to-head, BUT when you put it that way I agree it's tough to pass up the two Hamiltons for the one TAG.

Obviously I love the Pan Europ and it's fairly close in my mind between that one alone and the Carrera anyway (I have the blue reissue and a Carrera CV2010 and I love both). Toss in that Jazzmaster....yeah I'd be happy with that pair.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

TGE said:


> Obviously I love the Pan Europ and it's fairly close in my mind between that one alone and the Carrera anyway (I have the blue reissue and a Carrera CV2010 and I love both).


Hi TGE, how does the Pan Europ compare to the Carrera? I've heard people saying that the Pan Europ wears smaller than the 45mm suggests, do you agree? I love the look of the Pan Europ but I tend to prefer 42mm watches.


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## TGE (Apr 24, 2011)

Perseus said:


> Hi TGE, how does the Pan Europ compare to the Carrera? I've heard people saying that the Pan Europ wears smaller than the 45mm suggests, do you agree? I love the look of the Pan Europ but I tend to prefer 42mm watches.


Definitely wears smaller than 45mm to me, which I think is mainly due to the short lugs. On the wrist it doesn't feel terribly different from the Carrera, maybe a shade bigger if anything. However, I believe it is about 1.5mm thinner than the Carrera.

I never thought I'd go above about 42mm myself, certainly 44mm maximum but only on a chunky dive watch, but this one just doesn't feel huge. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a presence on the wrist and the color doesn't make it any quieter, but the measured size is misleading in my opinion.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Perseus said:


>



BUBBLES!!!!


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

Thanks TGE. I can't wait until I can see the Pan Europ in the flesh. This will be my last chance for a spendy watch for awhile so I might just pull the plug on LE Carrera and save my allowance for a Hamilton.



TGE said:


> Definitely wears smaller than 45mm to me, which I think is mainly due to the short lugs. On the wrist it doesn't feel terribly different from the Carrera, maybe a shade bigger if anything. However, I believe it is about 1.5mm thinner than the Carrera.
> 
> I never thought I'd go above about 42mm myself, certainly 44mm maximum but only on a chunky dive watch, but this one just doesn't feel huge. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a presence on the wrist and the color doesn't make it any quieter, but the measured size is misleading in my opinion.


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## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

TGE said:


> Definitely wears smaller than 45mm to me, which I think is mainly due to the short lugs. On the wrist it doesn't feel terribly different from the Carrera, maybe a shade bigger if anything. However, I believe it is about 1.5mm thinner than the Carrera.
> 
> I never thought I'd go above about 42mm myself, certainly 44mm maximum but only on a chunky dive watch, but this one just doesn't feel huge. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a presence on the wrist and the color doesn't make it any quieter, but the measured size is misleading in my opinion.


TGE is right. It wears smaller but still has great wrist presence. You just don't see many tonneau shaped watches like this as it is a throw back style - it stays true to the 70's tonneau shape, I think thats a big part of what catches the eye.


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## LambChopFamily (Mar 1, 2012)

Perseus said:


> Thanks TGE. I can't wait until I can see the Pan Europ in the flesh. This will be my last chance for a spendy watch for awhile so I might just pull the plug on LE Carrera and save my allowance for a Hamilton.


I bought my Maestro couple weeks ago and just won a Pan on Ebay, in total I spend less than $3100. Great value in Hamilton. The build and quality is 1st Class. Need I say on the design, I spend time during daytime office hour starring at my Maestro turning it from side to side, trying to appreciate all the angels. Rest of my collections are Rolex x 3, JLC, Ball x 2, Omega and a few bits. But Hamilton has a deep meaning to me now.


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## 3th3r (Jul 20, 2011)

The new black and silver Pan Europes have nothing on the blue one. To me the Blue PE is one of the most gorgeous chronos regardless of price.


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## Robbyman (Jan 21, 2012)

The blue is already a classic to me. It just looks superb, so good I do not want to wear it in case it gets damaged. 

I may just have to buy the black in order the protect my LE!! This watch is soo great I would seriously consider having two.


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## bluloo (Nov 24, 2008)

I actually like the black dial almost as much as the blue.

I really love these, but it will wear very large. 

My PRS20 is ~ 47mm lug to lug, but it's flat. Due to the case thickness, this will wear significantly larger on my ~ 7" wrist (~53mm wide). 

:think: :think:


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## LambChopFamily (Mar 1, 2012)

Anyone know when will the new release be available in The USA AD?


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## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

not sure on the exact dates - trying to find out from my AD. from what I have read, they were scheduled to launch (to market) after Baselworld 2012 which ended 3/18. If I hear anything i'll post.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

LambChopFamily said:


> Anyone know when will the new release be available in The USA AD?


Last year, it wasn't until September that the Pan Europ was out for the masses. Not sure what the time frame is for this one. Please post if you find out.


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## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

Was just advised that these will be available mid April at AD's. Retail will be $1945 likely discounted in the $1500 range. Trying to get model numbers for reference.


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## mike a (Apr 3, 2010)

I have the LE and love it so much I'm actually considering picking up either the black or silver re-launch! It is such a comfortable piece , especially at 45 mm, with such great presence.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

Forum sponsor Topper Jewelers posted a great pic on their web site. Here is a smaller version.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

H35756755 silver
H35756735 black


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## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

Great! But I still like the blue version. Will blue be a main stream model and not just limited edition?


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## TGE (Apr 24, 2011)

Triton9 said:


> Great! But I still like the blue version. Will blue be a main stream model and not just limited edition?


As far as I know the blue version will remain a limited edition (for the time being).


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## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

TGE said:


> As far as I know the blue version will remain a limited edition (for the time being).


Thanks for the info... I hope it will really become a main stream watch.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

Blue was my favorite but I wanted to try it on before putting down the cash. I'm pretty excited to see one of these in the flesh.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Triton9 said:


> Thanks for the info... I hope it will really become a main stream watch.


the LE version still can be had out there. Probably can pick one up for a discount by now. I know some places that were selling it for $1500 - $1600 range


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## staindsoul (Feb 26, 2012)

Mind sharing a link?

There was a blue Pan Europ on mesh a while back that was stunning. Might have been on eBay. Anyone have any pictures of that?


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

chrono24.com, ebay and the sales forum here. I have probably seen 6 or more in the last two months.


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## saatbaz (Nov 7, 2011)

I like the blue LE the most, but I must say that the new silver one comes quite close to it


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## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

I will love to owe the panda eye if blue is not easily available.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Came across some more pics, thought I'd post


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## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

nice! these have a "dressier" look than the LE. Still prefer blue however; but I would not turn down one of these either. thanks for posting... these are the best pics I have seen to date.


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## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

napel said:


> Came across some more pics, thought I'd post
> 
> View attachment 666869
> 
> ...


They shall have make the sub dial of silver one, all black. It will be more attractive. Full black one plus red hands will make it standout.


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## TGE (Apr 24, 2011)

Nice pics, thanks for posting. They definitely look a little dressier than the blue, and the new strap pushes it that way too. I actually like the black one better in these pics, where before I kinda leaned toward the silver.


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## muchacho_ (Feb 11, 2012)

Absolutely gorgeus, both of them. I like them more that LE 
I'm still wondering about the price though.


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## Khadgar (Sep 13, 2010)

Anyone knows the price of these new models? They´re great, I can´t decide...


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

WOW! Thanks for the pics Triton9. I had only been able to find one photo of the silver with bad lighting.


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## Cybotron (Dec 7, 2006)

Those are nice. It would be hard for me to choose if I was getting one.


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## muchacho_ (Feb 11, 2012)

It seems that the retail price for them in EU is 1395 euro. However, I found one store selling them for 1185 euro. It would be great if the price dropped below 1k in a couple of months


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

are these brick and mortar or online? wondering if they are physically in the shops yet


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## muchacho_ (Feb 11, 2012)

Dunno, I've checked online. Hamilton has no AD here in Poland, which is weird btw since all the other Swatch Group brands have.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Toppers is your source. They are taking deposits on this now with watch showing up in stores in late May. Gotta move some other pieces now to make way.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

napel said:


> Toppers is your source. They are taking deposits on this now with watch showing up in stores in late May. Gotta move some other pieces now to make way.


Were they able to say what MSRP is going to be? I need to see one in the flesh before buying so I can check out the size. The closest Hamilton dealer also sells jewelry. I had a horrible customer service experience with them so I try my watches on there and buy from forum sponsor Topper when I can.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Perseus said:


> Were they able to say what MSRP is going to be? I need to see one in the flesh before buying so I can check out the size. The closest Hamilton dealer also sells jewelry. I had a horrible customer service experience with them so I try my watches on there and buy from forum sponsor Topper when I can.


$1950 is MSRP. I, like you, buy most of my stuff from Toppers when they have it so they gave me a pretty good (customer appreciation) discount. I tried on the LE Pan Europ, so I have no doubt that this one will be awesome.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

napel said:


> $1950 is MSRP. I, like you, buy most of my stuff from Toppers when they have it so they gave me a pretty good (customer appreciation) discount. I tried on the LE Pan Europ, so I have no doubt that this one will be awesome.


thanks! Did you go silver or black? That silver is calling my name.


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## Gbkirsch (Feb 15, 2012)

Perseus said:


> thanks! Did you go silver or black? That silver is calling my name.


Tesoro jewelers in PA offered me a Pan Europ 2012 at a good discount if anyone is interested. I made a deal (with a private seller) for the LE but I wouldn't have hesitated to buy the non LE version from Tesoro. I dont want to repeat the deal here but you can contact Andrew at [email protected]

Good luck, Gary


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Perseus said:


> thanks! Did you go silver or black? That silver is calling my name.


You must be my doppelganger. Silver was singing me sweet lullabies as well.


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## whitestardan (Jan 2, 2012)

Does anyone have a caseback picture for this version? Is it an exhibition back or cased like the Pan Europ LE?


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## Khadgar (Sep 13, 2010)

whitestardan said:


> Does anyone have a caseback picture for this version? Is it an exhibition back or cased like the Pan Europ LE?


There´s exhibition back.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Khadgar said:


> There´s exhibition back.


That's a plus, didn't know it was exhibition. Learn something new everyday.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

That's cool! I thought it would be solid like the LE.



Khadgar said:


> There´s exhibition back.


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## jnelson3097 (Mar 28, 2010)

Does anybody know if the new standard model has a tang or deployant buckle?


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## Khadgar (Sep 13, 2010)

Unfortunately the nice limited edition´s deployant buckle isn´t part of the standard model. 

MRSP is 1950$ and you guys in US can easily have it for 1500$. Ask your ADs.


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Looks like Germany already got a batch. I can smell my Gray in the air.


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## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

Kinda glad there are differences; it adds a bit more exclusivity to the LE besides the color.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

Khadgar said:


> Unfortunately the nice limited edition´s deployant buckle isn´t part of the standard model.


I would have liked the deployment buckle but the exhibition back more than makes up for it. I think I'm going to get the silver model and throw it on a rallye strap like the old Monaco's


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## conquistador (Aug 24, 2011)

Will it be a chore to replace straps on the watch by virtue of the curved spring bars?


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## Redrum (Sep 17, 2008)

Khadgar said:


> Unfortunately the nice limited edition´s deployant buckle isn´t part of the standard model.
> 
> MRSP is 1950$ and you guys in US can easily have it for 1500$. Ask your ADs.


You can get a Hirsch deployant with the signed "H", it would look cool on the Hamilton


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## Cowbiker (Jun 27, 2007)

I had the blue 1971 and let it go, but I'd love to see the black bezel/sunburst silver dial done as a GMT chrono, I'd get back in, ESPECIALLY IF THEY BROUGHT BACK THE BRACELET. But the watch looks killer on tropic rubber.


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## ctujack (Mar 9, 2009)

Perseus said:


> Thanks TGE. I can't wait until I can see the Pan Europ in the flesh. This will be my last chance for a spendy watch for awhile so I might just pull the plug on LE Carrera and save my allowance for a Hamilton.


I've had mine for a few days now, and I can say that it does indeed wear smaller than 45mm due to the shorter lugs, but it does feel quite wide and it's this reason that I'm moving it on.


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## j111dja (Mar 9, 2006)

3th3r said:


> The new black and silver Pan Europes have nothing on the blue one. To me the Blue PE is one of the most gorgeous chronos regardless of price.


Sorry but I beg to differ having handled both watches.

I love the shade of blue on the limited edition model but the cheap looking, shiny silver sub-dial centre sections don't do it for me. Also, the case back on the limited edition model is pretty poorly done IMHO. That is why I did not hesitate in buying the black model.


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## RogerP (Mar 7, 2007)

j111dja said:


> Sorry but I beg to differ having handled both watches.
> 
> I love the shade of blue on the limited edition model but the cheap looking, shiny silver sub-dial centre sections don't do it for me. Also, the case back on the limited edition model is pretty poorly done IMHO. That is why I did not hesitate in buying the black model.


I'll have to beg to differ with you. There is nothing cheap-looking about any aspect of the blue dial LE, nor is the caseback poorly done. I am not a big fan of the undersized porthole type display back on the silver and black versions, but I certainly would not stoop to calling it "cheap".

Roger


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

j111dja said:


> Sorry but I beg to differ having handled both watches.
> 
> I love the shade of blue on the limited edition model but the cheap looking, shiny silver sub-dial centre sections don't do it for me. Also, the case back on the limited edition model is pretty poorly done IMHO. That is why I did not hesitate in buying the black model.





RogerP said:


> I'll have to beg to differ with you. There is nothing cheap-looking about any aspect of the blue dial LE, nor is the caseback poorly done. I am not a big fan of the undersized porthole type display back on the silver and black versions, but I certainly would not stoop to calling it "cheap".
> 
> Roger


The thing separating the two are the colors and the exhibition back so I think it comes down to your preference. The size of the opening on the back is really determined by the size of the movement. Keep in mind the 7750 on which it's based came in out in '74 when big watches were not in the rage they are now.


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## whitestardan (Jan 2, 2012)

With there finally being a few Pan Europs in captivity now, does anyone have a lume shot of one (even the Blue L.E.)?


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## whitestardan (Jan 2, 2012)

My silver dial came in yesterday and I've answered my own question:


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## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

come on...you can post better pics than that.


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## whitestardan (Jan 2, 2012)

napel said:


> come on...you can post better pics than that.


I've already posted several at other parts of the site. I'll write up a full review later.


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## Y4BBZY (Jan 30, 2011)

Love the blue not so much the black & silver version.


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## Gbkirsch (Feb 15, 2012)

Y4BBZY said:


> Love the blue not so much the black & silver version.


I think they are all nice. If I had not found my blue le, I would have bought the black dial version for sure...I really like the watch and it feels very nice on the wrist...


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## whitestardan (Jan 2, 2012)

I got my watch review up:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f357/hamilton-pan-europ-silver-dial-697073.html

I also like my Hirsch Gator and the H logo on the deployment:


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## Mr_Pacman (Mar 17, 2006)

Could someone who owns the blue dial LE please post the part # on your Hamilton Deployant clasp?

Thanks
James


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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

Mr_Pacman said:


> Could someone who owns the blue dial LE please post the part # on your Hamilton Deployant clasp?
> 
> Thanks
> James


Hi James. I'm traveling at the moment (without my LE Pan Europ) but if nobody posts the part # by the time I get back on Sunday I'll do it for you.

BTW, do you still have that Eterna Worldtimer?

Brent


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## Mr_Pacman (Mar 17, 2006)

Thanks Brent,

I sold the Eterna Worldtimer. As usual, I'm having regrets for dumping it for way too low of a price. One day I'll learn.......



BrentYYC said:


> Hi James. I'm traveling at the moment (without my LE Pan Europ) but if nobody posts the part # by the time I get back on Sunday I'll do it for you.
> 
> BTW, do you still have that Eterna Worldtimer?
> 
> Brent


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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

Mr_Pacman said:


> Thanks Brent,
> 
> I sold the Eterna Worldtimer. As usual, I'm having regrets for dumping it for way too low of a price. One day I'll learn.......


I wrestled with buying it, but couldn't make up my mind. I ended up buying an LE Oris Chronoris Grand Prix '70 to fill in the GMT gap in my collection. It was a lucky find in San Francisco a few weeks ago.


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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi James. I checked the deployant clasp from my blue dial LE, and there are no part number markings on it at all.

FYI, the reference number on the back of the OEM brown rally strap is H600357000 (the watch ref. number) as well as the stamping of D0411 (presumably the strap ref. number).


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## Mr_Pacman (Mar 17, 2006)

Thanks for looking into it for me.

I'm not fond of the stock strap, so I might make an order for some aftermarket ones this week.



BrentYYC said:


> Hi James. I checked the deployant clasp from my blue dial LE, and there are no part number markings on it at all.
> 
> FYI, the reference number on the back of the OEM brown rally strap is H600357000 (the watch ref. number) as well as the stamping of D0411 (presumably the strap ref. number).


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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

Mr_Pacman said:


> Thanks for looking into it for me.
> 
> I'm not fond of the stock strap, so I might make an order for some aftermarket ones this week.


I don't like it either. I think they were on the right track as far as the look goes, but the quality is crap. I've been talking with two custom strap makers about building a leather and an alligator strap to the same specs that will fit the OEM deployant. Does your strap squeak like an old shoe on a gymnasium floor, too?


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## Mr_Pacman (Mar 17, 2006)

Just an update for anyone looking for the correct deployant clasp that comes on the Limited Edition blue dial Pan Europ.

There is no # on the clasp, but the correct part # is H640.000.368

The cost is $45 (very reasonable considering the quality) from Swatch Canada plus $15 to have it FedEx'd overnight. 

They also have extra 22mm curved springbars for the Pan Europ $2 per bar.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

Mr_Pacman said:


> Just an update for anyone looking for the correct deployant clasp that comes on the Limited Edition blue dial Pan Europ.
> 
> There is no # on the clasp, but the correct part # is H640.000.368
> 
> ...


Nice work! People have been trying to figure that out for awhile.


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## morningbell (Nov 16, 2007)

Anyone knows the tip diameter of the springbars? will a 22mm curved x 1.78mm fit?


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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

Coincidentally, I just ordered extra curved springbars or my Pan Europ from the Hamilton service center while my watch was in getting regulated (they needed to be ordered from Switzerland, because the service center didn't have them in stock). 

The dimensions on the service order were 1.8 x 22 x 0.8 x 0.9. $1.50 each.


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## morningbell (Nov 16, 2007)

BrentYYC said:


> Coincidentally, I just ordered extra curved springbars or my Pan Europ from the Hamilton service center while my watch was in getting regulated (they needed to be ordered from Switzerland, because the service center didn't have them in stock).
> 
> The dimensions on the service order were 1.8 x 22 x 0.8 x 0.9. $1.50 each.


Thanks for the info. :-!


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