# Captain Central seconds and Elite 670 Movement accuracy



## JonNik (Feb 4, 2013)

Hello all,

I am looking at a Captain Central seconds(*) as a dress watch for my next watch purchase (probably December or early next year) 
and it certainly ticks all the boxes. Beautiful, elegant and a great price for a Swiss made manufacture. I also have a thing for thin 
watches it seems (and skinny wrists  ).

So one question left to my mind (other than if I'll go for the black sunray or smoke tinted dial) is about accuracy.

I am not a terrible stickler for it, but I have been rather lucky with my wristwatches thus far (not so much with my pocket watches),
even my cheap Tissot LeLocle does -1 to -2 per day (Ok I was lucky there  ) so It would certainly make me feel better if my most
expensive watch purchase (this is a significant amount for me: Not rich  ) is at least in decent territory (anything below +/- 4).

So I would be quite thankful if people with the same caliber could post their experience accuracy and reliability wise.

Also Some pics/videos of the black sunray dial would be great. I found one of the smoke tinted one on youtube. Great looking watch, 
but I suspect I will like the Sunray better (I will go and see them in person but for now I'll leave the 3 Hour trip for when I am closer to purchase).

I would appreciate also opinions of Smoke tinted vs Sunray too if you feel like it.

Thanks in advance.

(* Black dial. I have my Nomos Tangomat for a silver one and this will be the mandatory black/more dressy one)

Edit: Hmm the Zenith Site says Sunray for the black dialed model. Is it the only one available ?
I just can't see it on the videos...

Edit 2: Nope definitely there is a smoke tinted one. Found several clear picks on chrono24. 
This is the Sunray I guess :http://www.lepage.fr/2514-1773-thickbox/montre-homme-zenith-captain-central-second.jpg
Subtle (damn near invisible on the Macbook had to see it on a larger screen  ) Love it...


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I have to disappoint you there slightly - it is not all that important how much a watch gains or loses, as long as it does it consistently. A watch going solidly and unerringly at +15 every day is a better watch and better adjusted than a watch that goes at an average of ±0 but deviates between -30 and +30 around that. Although I would expect the watch to be close to zero on average.

As for the deviations, the Zenith "Elite" should manage about 5 seconds between the lowest and highest daily rate. 10 seconds are permissible (i.e. deviating between -5 and +5 or between -3 and +7), after that it becomes a little painful. These should be wrist values, under the strict conditions of COSC testing in exact positions, the values might be a touch worse, but not much. So, values between -2 and +3 are close to ideal. My El Primero managed 2.5 seconds (0 to +2.5) after its last service - for several months!

Hartmut Richter


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## JonNik (Feb 4, 2013)

Hartmut Richter said:


> As for the deviations, the Zenith "Elite" should manage about 5 seconds between the lowest and highest daily rate. 10 seconds are permissible (i.e. deviating between -5 and +5 or between -3 and +7), after that it becomes a little painful. These should be wrist values, under the strict conditions of COSC testing in exact positions, the values might be a touch worse, but not much. So, values between -2 and +3 are close to ideal. My El Primero managed 2.5 seconds (0 to +2.5) after its last service - for several months!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks Harmut,

If it stays between -5/+5 then it is probably acceptable. For the record I have been monitoring my Nomos for the first couple of Months of ownership. For several days I checked it for 2-3 times per day. It seldom deviated more than +/- 2. (only once or twice did I see +/- 3 deviations). I guess the way I move during the day suits the watch. I have also tried and recorded how the watch responds to various positions when left alone during the night So wearing it during the day and leaving it face up during the night usually results in a 1 second deviation during the 24 hour period (+/-).

If I can get that performance out of the Zenith (or anything in the neighborhood) I will be more than satisfied. I mostly want not to have to set the watch more than once per month.

I have a feeling the Elite will fit the bill, But I would like some first hand user experience too if I can get it 

Regards


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## JonNik (Feb 4, 2013)

Oh, another question that popped into my mind that I would appreciate if anyone can provide some insight for:

How about handwinding the watch? 

I like to handwind my watches now and then (they may even need it on some slow days but It mostly gives me pleasure to do so occasionally). I know this usually is a bad idea with automatics i.e. knowledgeable people encourage you not to make a habit of it on the 2824 in my LeLocle (Not a problem on the Nomos though). 

How is the Elite 670 for that ? I couldn't spot any recommendations either way... It is really a minor point (you could probably
tell I am already mostly set on the watch  ), but it would be good to know.


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## JonNik (Feb 4, 2013)

jasonelgin4 said:


> Just received this beauty.


Congrats. Sincerely envious :-!

Do post some pics and impressions when you have them ;-)


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Winding an automatic manually will do no harm to the mainspring, nor the main geartrain. It will introduce extra wear to the automatic winding system which gets some of the energy and starts turning the gears in it rather rapidly. Whether it will damage the mechanism will depend on how many jewels the automatic winding contains to reduce friction (a 17 jewel automatic is a bad idea, fortunately nowadays it's a rarity) and to what extent the automatic winding system is decoupled from manual winding (some movements have this feature). Seiko automatics can't be would at all manually which shows that it is not the best idea.....

I would advise manual winding chiefly when the power reserve is pretty low and most of the energy will go to the mainspring rather than being diverted towards the rotor. I also managed to mess up an ETA 2824 by manual winding.

Hartmut Richter


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## JonNik (Feb 4, 2013)

Thanks Harmut,

Yeah, I was wondering if they had a clutch mechanism like the Nomos that they didn't particularly advertise. Not an issue naturally. 

I'll just have to kick the habit when wearing the Captain. I walk at least one hour each week day and it really is plenty enough to wind an
automatic I believe. The power reserve should only dip a bit during weekends but my LeLocle managed without hand winding so I think it'll
be fine.

Now for the long wait to December 

Regards.


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

Hi JonNik,

I've got an older manual wind version based on the Elite 650. I bought it NOS, out of the box it ran at about +3/+4 ish. I had it serviced two weeks ago and it's now running at about +1. It's my most accurate watch by far, especially considering that as a manual wind it tends to be exposed to several tension levels before being wound fully (unlike an automatic which probably maintains a more consistent level of tension as it is continuously being wound).

Go for the Captain!

WTSP


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## JonNik (Feb 4, 2013)

WTSP said:


> Hi JonNik,
> 
> I've got an older manual wind version based on the Elite 650. I bought it NOS, out of the box it ran at about +3/+4 ish. I had it serviced two weeks ago and it's now running at about +1. It's my most accurate watch by far, especially considering that as a manual wind it tends to be exposed to several tension levels before being wound fully (unlike an automatic which probably maintains a more consistent level of tension as it is continuously being wound).
> 
> ...


Thanks WTSP.

I must admit I am still a bit on the fence on this one. The final decision will be made on the spot on the AD probably
(i.e will the price he gives me coincides with what the watch seems to be worth for me when I got it on my wrist).

Still for it to perform decently accurately and reliably is a big plus as I need to be very satisfied with a watch I get for 
such an amount. If it was to perform as good as yours I would be perfectly and completely happy!  We'll see...

P.S: My automatics do seem to perform better for me due to my lifestyle it seems compared to my handwounds and the 
little I have gleaned from searches in watchuseek seem to support that the elites perform their best when on high tension 
levels as you put it, so I am not as terribly concerned as I might have let on.

It is just that a well worked on, well tested and adjusted movement adds value to the watch in my eyes and thus makes 
the cost more easily to justify to myself, which is basically, mostly what this is about if I have to be completely honest  
(apart from the practical set only once per month if at all possible consideration that is)


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