# Watch not winding on the wrist...



## jermyzy

So once again, my Zenith Defy is running into problems again...now the watch is not winding on the wrist. I can wear the watch for 12-14 hours/day and the power reserve will stay the same (won't go up/down), and obviously loses power reserve when the watch is off the wrist. Therefore, it will last 4-5 days before it goes dead. I realize that the winding of the watch on the wrist is relative to motion of the wrist during the day, but I have had no problems will all my other watches on the wrist doing the same daily activities. It appears (to my untrained eye) that the problem lies with the rotor as it does not seem to swing freely. E.g. if I turn the watch 180 degrees the rotor is still stuck up top and it sometimes requires a gentle shake to get it to swing down and it appears "jerky" when it swings. Any idea if this is a simple problem that can be recitified by a local watchmaker? I refuse to send it back to LVMH Canada (I have sent it back 3 times for warranty work and each time came back with new problem). My only other option is to send to Switzerland service centre which seems extreme if the problem is a relatively simple one? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!


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## D N Ravenna

If you have a local watchmaker that you can trust, perhaps it is worth having them trouble shoot it? It may be worth to spend a small amount to find out if it needs to go somewhere else. I did the same for another watch I had. It cost me $35 to have them look at it and fix the rotor that did not move smoothly. In my case, it was snagging on the case somehow.

Please keep us posted!

Dan


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## tigerpac

Good luck. I agree with Dan. A good local guy is a great resource.


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## jermyzy

Okay guys...hopefully somebody will have some insight? I dropped off the watch at my local watchmaker. Apparently they put the watch on some device that simulates being worn on the wrist. They observed over several days and report that the watch is working perfectly fine and is holding its power reserve. Can anybody think of any possible reason why it works perfectly fine on the machine, but not on my actual wrist??? I've worn it for 6 days straight (12-14 hours/day at work) and each day, it loses about 8 hours of power reserve, so it's dead after 6 days. With regard to lack of arm movement, I've worn all my other watches with no problems doing the same activities, and even with the same watch, it previously had no problem!


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## Rickr23

My ChronoMaster does the same. The rotor doesn't move freely. It's been like that since I bought it and since I refuse to send it to LVMH-USA for disservice, I just live with it winding the watch a bit every other day or so. Even if yours is within normal limits perhaps you can ask them to lubricate it or pretend it's not within normal limits and give it a closer look.


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## Hartmut Richter

Funnily enough, my Zenith ChronoMaster El Primero is probably my most efficient winding watch! Beats my ETA movements any day. Only my ZentRa Manta has a lighter going rotor and that one has a Durowe 7525 with an automatic winding mechanism by Adolf Schild - predictably it's unidirectional (AS stuck to the unidirectional mode, believing it to be more efficient on the wrist)! And those always go round a little mor easily - but only wind half the time.

Hartmut Richter


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## D N Ravenna

Not sure what else there is to add. Your local watchmaker says it is winding OK. That means something. I would add that a watchwinder is meant to wind a watch, or at worse, not lose reserve. Your wrist/arm are not. They make several motions that add nothing to winding a watch. The last watch I had with a power reserve was some cheapie ETA and it took forever to increase the reserve. It is possible that your watch may be slightly out of tune with regards to winding, but if a local watchmaker says it is ok, I am not sure what else you can add.

Sorry,
Dan


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## jermyzy

^Apparently all they did was put the watch on the winding machine for 3 days and observed it, and it held power reserve. Didn't open the watch or observe the rotor movement at all. I'm not a watch expert, but in my humble opinion, I disagree with your post about the wrist not meant to winding the watch. If a watch did not wind on the wrist, it defeats the whole purpose of an automatic watch, might as well just be a manual wind. The point of an automatic watch is that the natural movement of the arm/wrist powers the rotor to wind the watch sufficiently so that it stays running overnight. Anyways, I mentioned to them that the rotor appears to be stuck at certain positions and if they would kindly take a look at the rotor itself to see if there is any problems with lubrication or the rotor bearings. I explained that on a watch winder, the watch is turned 360 degrees, as opposed to much less degree of movement on the wrist. If there was a problem with the rotor being to move freely, the effects would not be as apparent on the watch winder (in my view anyways). They have agreed to take a look at the rotor specifically and will get back to me. I will keep you guys updated!


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## D N Ravenna

jermyzy said:


> ^...I explained that on a watch winder, the watch is turned 360 degrees, as opposed to much less degree of movement on the wrist. If there was a problem with the rotor being to move freely, the effects would not be as apparent on the watch winder (in my view anyways)...


I believe this is what I writing about. Sorry I did not make it clear enough.

You may also want to change watchmakers to get a second opinion.

Thanks for keeping us posted!

Dan


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## jermyzy

Sigh...need more expert advise from you guys!

Just called the watchmaker again and got some more information. Their original "test" was to fully wind the watch and see how long it lasted before it died...apparently 60 hours, so power reserve is good and they figured no problem with the watch. That's when I told them that the problem was not the power reserve per se, but the winding of the watch. So now they've wound the watch and put it on the watchwinder and observed over a week and they agree that the watch is not building power reserve adequately. I ask them if the rotor just requires lubrication? They say no. I ask them if they know what the problem is? They say no. They suggest the only way for them to find out the exact problem is to perform a complete movement overhaul at same cost as a factory overhaul at LVMH. However, given my horrific experience with LVMH Canada, I refuse to send to them. My only other option is to arrange to send back to Zenith Switzerland.

The watchmaker guarantees their work for 2 years and because they are local, would be much easier to deal with. However, I'm hesistant to spend so much money on a full movement overhaul when they don't know the exact problem. The watchmaker came highly recommended by a prominent member on another watch forum. My personal experience with them is mixed. I've only had my wife's Perrelet serviced with them under warranty. I've had to bring it back twice since then with minor issues as a result of their original work, but their customer service is top notch. I need to have this watch fixed...it's been back to LVMH Canada three times in the 3 short years I've owned and I have not been able to enjoy it...what are your thoughts/opinions???!!!


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## Rickr23

The other alternative, the one that I've chosen for my similar problem is to live with it, and wind the watch manually regularly. I don't plan on sending it to LVMH USA either and I don't know any watchmakers that work on El Primeros. In your case you may want to go with your watchmaker since yours is an Elite and see what they can do. It's shouldn't be a major issue but they do have to test all parts of the winding mechanicsm to see what's at fault.


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## D N Ravenna

Tough call. Lubrication is not always the answer. It is hard to explain why, but when you see the small gears involved and the overall weight of the rotor, it seems like they would run well without lubrication. Besides, it is the pivots that are lubricated and no where else. It is possible that one of the gears is missing teeth or not well aligned, but that is impossible to tell with out taking it apart. Were it me, I would make sure it got to Switzerland. You need a fresh set of eyes on it, and if there is need for spare parts, they are going to be the ones with those parts.

That would be my response. Sorry!
:-(
Dan


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## jermyzy

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to call the local watchmaker and ask them what happens if they open it up and they can't fix the problem? In the meantime, looks like I will be sending Zenith an e-mail and wait 4 weeks for a reply >_<

Rickr --> I woudn't be able to live with that! Also, mine has a screwdown crown, don't want to have to keep unscrewing the crown to wind it!

Update: Talked to the local watchmaker and they are pretty confident that they can resolve the issue. They reassure me that if anything is wrong within 2 years they will fix it. When questioned about availability of parts they again reassured me that it would not be an issue. Their customer service has been top notch, handling warranty problems with my wife's watch even though we didn't purchase from them, so I'm willing to give them a shot. Sending to Zenith Switzerland would have been a big hassle and if anything went wrong, I would have to send it back to Switzerland again...so I prefer to deal locally first. Will take about a month to service, will update you guys again when I get it back. Thanks!


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## D N Ravenna

We'll be looking forward to your response.

Good luck!

Dan


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## jermyzy

Quick update. Finally got the watch back from my watchmaker after full overhaul. Rotor is moving much more freely now. Watch seems to be winding okay on the wrist now. First couple days, watch would go up 1 bar/day while wearing, and lose 2 bars at night, but today it has gone by 2 bars, so maybe my activity was not high the first two days (previously it would not go up at all while wearing). They could not find any "problems" with the watch while servicing it, seemed to think lubrication was an issue (I do not wear this watch very often, maybe only have worn it 20-30 times over the 3 years I've owned it, not sure if this contributed to the problem). Anyways, overall I'm happy that the watch seems to be working now, and I intend to wear it more frequently now 

Only negative is, upon inspecting caseback, there are nicks on the edges of the grooves that I'm guessing happened when trying to open the caseback. Unfortunately, as I had not closely inspected the watch since sending it to LVMH last time, I can't say whether the nicks are from the local watchmaker or from LVMH.


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## D N Ravenna

Glad to hear that your Zenith is working well! For what it's worth, I used to swirl my automatics for several minutes to get the power reserve up. Now-a-days, my winder helps there.

As for the scratch marks, that is more common these days. I wish that people would take pride in their work and not mar the casebacks.

Dan


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