# So, after one week my Steinhart Ocean One 39 black has stopped. Questions about warranty and service



## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

So I received my Steinhart Ocean One 39 black in early March but only started wearing from the 19th. Worked fine until this morning when I noticed the second hand wasn't moving. At first I thought the watch had wound down, which would have been strange since I had worn it for a few hours the day before. Manual winding didn't start it back up and wearing it on my wrist for an hour also didn't start it back up. The watch isn't ticking but if I move the watch in small circles, I can hear the rotor inside freely moving.

So I just sent an email to Steinhart's service address describing everything above and hope to hear from them within 24 hours. I'm not angry or anything but just a little bit disappointed that I got a faulty timepiece. Still, it's better it happened now very early in my ownership than months or years later.

I have some questions about the returns / repair process:

1) Does Steinhart pay for the return shipping? I would be expecting this.
2) If I ask for a replacement, will they replace with a new piece instead of fixing the current one? I would prefer something new. How strict are they in their warranty procedures?
3) For example, if I asked them to replace the non-working black with an Ocean One 39 Blue, would they do that? It costs 25 Euro more but perhaps they could do this? It couldn't hurt to ask but maybe someone has had that experience previously?

Thanks for your advice.


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## khanhdnk (Sep 28, 2017)

1. Steinhart gives 2 years warranty. They will give you their account of FedEx and you just send to them, without cost. 


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Good to know and kind of as I expected.
I wonder if I can pay the 25 euro difference and get a replacement Blue model rather than the current black one I have... The Ocean One 39 Blue one would look great on a nato strap.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

How many turns did you give the crown to try crank up the movement?

Also, under normal circumstances wearing the watch for a few hours isn't enough to fully charge the movement so that it lasts the 40 or so hours rated power reserve, unless of course you're constantly waving your arm around during that time (and especially if you did not manually handwind it at least 20-30 before wearing it).


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

I wound the crown a good 30 to 40 times like I would my other automatics. The crown has slight resistance when I turn it but manually winding my Seiko is silky smooth. Is this normal for a Steinhart? Should the Steinhart be manually winding with almost no resistance on the crown like a Seiko? I've heard that the ETA 2824 can be faulty with a manual wind but that should not make the movement stop altogether.

No matter what i do, the second hand won't budge at all. I can't even guess what is wrong inside except maybe that it's serious - like a broken mainspring, escapement or balance wheel.

My friend asked me if I had dropped it or given it a good bang. No to that either.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

Earthjade said:


> I wound the crown a good 30 to 40 times like I would my other automatics. The crown has slight resistance when I turn it but manually winding my Seiko is silky smooth. Is this normal for a Steinhart? Should the Steinhart be manually winding with almost no resistance on the crown like a Seiko? I've heard that the ETA 2824 can be faulty with a manual wind but that should not make the movement stop altogether.
> 
> No matter what i do, the second hand won't budge at all. I can't even guess what is wrong inside except maybe that it's serious - like a broken mainspring, escapement or balance wheel.


Sounds like you've given it a fair try. However it is not a Steinhart issue but rather an ETA issue (for which Steinhart will cover under warranty). A symptom of the common issue with the 2824s is that when you attempt to wind the crown manually, the rotor spins with the winding of the crown, with quite a strong resistance and indeed the movement will have difficulties charging up from body movement and (almost) impossible to wind up manually. Perhaps the resistance you're feeling is the extra effort needed in moving the rotor. Fortunately it is an easy fix, with a dedicated oil applied strategically to free up the clutch that stops the rotor from turning at the wrong time.

Having said that the 2824 isn't normally silky smooth to wind up anyway but shouldn't be difficult either. The smoothest winding action that I've experienced is on the Soprod A10s and the ETA 2893s.

Will the second hand start to move if you lightly tap, once or twice, the side of the case on your palm? If it doesn't then it may be something more serious.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Thanks for the info. I expect to hear from Steinhart pretty soon. If anyone is interested in how their customer service is working, I can post updates. My experience in the past has been that the smaller watch companies usually try to do right by the customer, but sometimes it can take a while.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

Earthjade said:


> Thanks for the info. I expect to hear from Steinhart pretty soon. If anyone is interested in how their customer service is working, I can post updates. My experience in the past has been that the smaller watch companies usually try to do right by the customer, but sometimes it can take a while.


They may not be super responsive, by a lot of people's standards but if given a chance they will always come through for the customer. Trick is to be extra patient. Good luck.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Watchfreek said:


> Will the second hand start to move if you lightly tap, once or twice, the side of the case on your palm? If it doesn't then it may be something more serious.


The second hand won't budge at all - it's rock-solid. Like you, I imagined it would advance at least a second or two with a few taps, crown clicks, shakes or crown winds. But really nothing! So yes, this makes me think whatever is wrong is more serious than something "a little jammed" inside.

So Steinhart replies at about 1PM German time with their Fed Ex Details to send the watch back to them. This was about 14 hours after my email. I asked if it was possible to EXCHANGE my non-working Ocean One 39 Black for a new Ocean One 39 Blue if I paid the 25 euro difference in price. They pretty much refused and said they'd only accept returns if it was within 14 days and unworn otherwise they would use their "double rectification right".

I don't have the box and papers for the watch at the moment as it is at my mother's house, but I'm really wishing I could read it right now. As far as I can see, I get nothing out of this situation but extra work and trouble and a Steinhart box that is a little more banged up from 3 global flights. If Steinhart had said the exchange to a Blue would have been possible, it would have made me a lot happier about the situation.

Any advice about the Blue or should I just resign myself to getting the Black fixed and sending the watch out via Fed Ex ASAP?


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## JTO (Nov 1, 2015)

I want to preface this reply that I mean no offense with what I'm going to say, but I can't figure out if you're male or female. The reason is the 39 blue has a mother of pearl dial which is more fitting for a female (not that a man can't pull it off, but most males would opt for something different - assuming you're a guy)

If you're still gung ho about it I'd just get it fixed and sell your watch. They still will fetch a good price second hand since it's still really new.

The other reason for sticking to it is black will go with literally anything. I sometimes will find my 39 black kinda dull but I've had other colorful watches and I get put off wearing them with certain outfits since they really will clash. Once I look at my steinhart a second time it takes me back and I can see that it's a super classy color scheme.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

JTO said:


> I want to preface this reply that I mean no offense with what I'm going to say, but I can't figure out if you're male or female. The reason is the 39 blue has a mother of pearl dial which is more fitting for a female (not that a man can't pull it off, but most males would opt for something different - assuming you're a guy)
> 
> If you're still gung ho about it I'd just get it fixed and sell your watch. They still will fetch a good price second hand since it's still really new.
> 
> The other reason for sticking to it is black will go with literally anything. I sometimes will find my 39 black kinda dull but I've had other colorful watches and I get put off wearing them with certain outfits since they really will clash. Once I look at my steinhart a second time it takes me back and I can see that it's a super classy color scheme.


For the record, yes, I am a bloke.
And I get what you're saying about mother of pearl but for me, it's a "feeling" thing. The Ocean One 39 Blue looks like (depending on mood) a choppy sea, a cloudy sky or a marble room. Sinn has this limited edition 556 where they used black mother of pearl for the dial. I was floored by how it looked when I saw it a few months ago and that's what got me interested in the material. The Sinn watch makes it look like you've got a murderous thunderstorm or an ecosystem-destroying oil slick on your wrist. If you're going to wear the watch and be up and personal with it on a regular basis, my idea is you may as well enjoy it.

I've thought about the Ocean One 39 Blue and if you wear it with a bracelet and business suit, it looks classy. If you swap out the bracelet for a NATO strap and take it to the beach, the blue face makes it "fun". All my watches have either a black or white face and it would be nice to have something a little different that stands out on your wrist. That was my thinking behind it.

The resale attractiveness of a blue MOP face will always be much lower than your standard black dial, I know, but I'm more into the enjoyment of the watch than the potential resale-ability. Finally, the blue face makes it look less like a Submariner knock-off.


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## spclEd (Aug 18, 2015)

Earthjade said:


> ...If you're going to wear the watch and be up and personal with it on a regular basis, my idea is you may as well enjoy it.
> 
> ...The resale attractiveness of a blue MOP face will always be much lower than your standard black dial, I know, but I'm more into the enjoyment of the watch than the potential resale-ability. Finally, the blue face makes it look less like a Submariner knock-off.


Enjoy the watch for the reason you bought it, the resale value is a different argument. To me a watch is on my wrist for my enjoyment, it is not for anyone else. If another person appreciates my taste I say 'thank you'.

I really like your description of the Blue MOP and relating it to the ocean.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Just an update:

On Tuesday the 3rd, just after Easter, I:

* Put the non-working Ocean One 39 Black into its padded box after reattaching all the bracelet links.
* Put the padded box into the white cardboard Steinhart box.
* Printed out my original online payment receipt, a copy of the email I sent to Steinhart explaining the issue and a sheet with the return address in large print. Folded this all up and wrapped it in bubble-wrap along with the watchbox.

Went to my local Fed-Ex office and filled out the paperwork and provided the Steinhart Fed-Ex account number. They slipped it into a Fed-Ex mailing box (it slightly bulged but looked fine). Item description was "Goods for Repair (Watch)" and valued at 75 euro (don't really like that value part).

So all good.
Fed-Ex tracking says my package left Guangzhou in China (!!!) and is on the way to Germany by Friday.
Will post again when there is a development. Hope this can be all fixed up in a few weeks.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Email came about 12 hours ago:

"We received the goods you retourned, thank you.
At the moment, we need up to 5 weeks for repair work.
Your Steinhart Team"

Up to five weeks? :/
Because of all the trouble, they won't bother to make it up to me in some way?
How about selling me a watch that doesn't die within a week and take 2 months to send, repair and return?


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## JTO (Nov 1, 2015)

Earthjade said:


> Email came about 12 hours ago:
> 
> "We received the goods you retourned, thank you.
> At the moment, we need up to 5 weeks for repair work.
> ...


That's a bit of a bummer. But see how long it actually takes to get it repaired and sent back. I usually don't get married with etas since I know it can change.

Keep us posted since most of us has never had to do this with steinhart.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

That sucks.

But if after that the watch will be running for 6 or 7 years without problem I think it's worth it.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

JTO said:


> I usually don't get married with etas since I know it can change.


In my case, maybe I shouldn't have gotten married to an eta 2824-2.
*ba-dum-dum CHING*


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

So a microbrand communicates a timeframe to you and you get mad because you want your watch right now? Are they not going to repair it?

Try repairing a Seiko then get back to us....that brand doesn't even email you, let alone work fast. 

Feel lucky. 

Sorry yours was bad but maybe chill out. 

Follow me on Instagram- @Dec1968watches


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## duketogo81 (Mar 13, 2018)

Dec1968 said:


> So a microbrand communicates a timeframe to you and you get mad because you want your watch right now? Are they not going to repair it?
> 
> Try repairing a Seiko then get back to us....that brand doesn't even email you, let alone work fast.
> 
> ...


I'd go with what this guy says . He's completely right . You need to be patient a little . I understand your angry but the good thing is you will get it back fixed

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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Dec1968 said:


> So a microbrand communicates a timeframe to you and you get mad because you want your watch right now? Are they not going to repair it?
> 
> Try repairing a Seiko then get back to us....that brand doesn't even email you, let alone work fast.
> 
> ...


Nothing to "feel lucky" about.
They're doing what is required of them by German consumer law - other than that, I bet they'd wish I'd go away. I wanted to negotiate a more expensive replacement - no dice. We fix what is broke as required.
Considering the watch stopped within a week, you'd think they'd want to foster a little goodwill and show some flexibility. Last time I had a problem with a British microbrand, they sent me a free extra strap and pin extractor with a replacement watch. I didn't need the strap, but I was thankful for the consideration.
I'm not after freebies, but I'm not feeling that microbrand love, either...


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

Earthjade said:


> Nothing to "feel lucky" about.
> They're doing what is required of them by German consumer law - other than that, I bet they'd wish I'd go away. I wanted to negotiate a more expensive replacement - no dice. We fix what is broke as required.
> Considering the watch stopped within a week, you'd think they'd want to foster a little goodwill and show some flexibility. Last time I had a problem with a British microbrand, they sent me a free extra strap and pin extractor with a replacement watch. I didn't need the strap, but I was thankful for the consideration.
> I'm not after freebies, but I'm not feeling that microbrand love, either...


You're being totally unreasonable - I'll be straight with you in that regard.

They're a microbrand, but you're demanding megabrand treatment.

That's not how it works. Ever. They employ roughly 14 people, including their secretary and photographer. They don't have a mountain of stock on hand....most everything is built in batches.

You are almost demanding that they drop everything and service you - you need to understand how a microbrand works.

I hope you aren't mad at what I'm telling you. I'm trying to reset your unreasonable expectations.

The watch is made out of their Swiss factory with parts sourced globally. All of that takes time. They're located in Germany. All of the shipping is on their dime and they'll definitely take care of it.

Honestly you're just sour that your one week old watch isn't working right. We get it. But please, whining about it doesn't make you look good. Be a little forgiving for the microbrand. They do the best they can.

You should too. Relax and know your watch will come back to you in great working order. Steinhart is an excellent brand.

Be an excellent customer in return....

Follow me on Instagram- @Dec1968watches


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Let me tell you what is reasonable - that when you buy a product, it works as intended.
That is reasonable.

For some reason, you're trying to paint me as somebody whining about a broken watch that isn't fixed in two seconds. To be brutally honest with you, the time it takes to fix it doesn't annoy me a whole lot.

What _does_ annoy me though, is that throughout the process, there has been a distinct lack of any personal touch or apology that the watch died in a week. A little kindness for the plight of an irate customer would have been appreciated. I'm not sure, maybe customer service is a lot worse where you come from and this could be considered a gold standard for you. Having lived in Japan, I assure you that I find Steinhart's response is decidedly underwhelming.

And they really should treat their customers a lot better. Why? Because I made them a sale they otherwise wouldn't have had.
Before the watch died, I showed it to a work colleague. His Seiko diver just received an un-buffable scratch and he loved the Rolex homage so much he ordered the same Ocean One 39 black I had a week later, based on my recommendation and what he saw in person. You're welcome, Steinhart.

I'll post again when the watch is returned.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

I've refrained but there seems to be quite a few too many misconceptions that you seem to have:

It is perhaps reasonable if you buy a spoon, a fork, a knife, a piece of string or even a pen. A mechanical watch has thousands of part, many of which move, miraculously by themselves, and all put together by hand. One could ONLY REASONABLY expect that the seller ensures, as best as they could, that it works, as intended (i.e. keeps decent time) when it leaves their premises - that is the legal extent of the duty of care that they owe any customer. NO ONE can ever foresee what will happen to such a complex instrument in a week, two weeks and certainly not two year's time and they definitely cannot predict how it will be handled in the hands of the owner,. However a warranty is there because one cannot know what will happen in the future (but obviously there are those who abuse it, but they have ways of knowing...). It is the case with any kind of item covered under warranty. However there are also reasonable caveats to protect the seller, for instance, they will only cover manufacturing faults and not damage from mishandling or worst, tampering. It is a standard condition.

Anyway, they have indeed sent you a watch that worked and you have indeed confirmed that it did, albeit, for a week and now they have kept their promise, carried out their obligation, to repair it for you. They even pay for the shipping, both ways - some companies will not do that and I assure you they will continue to cover that until the issue is resolved. Unfortunately you seem to take it rather personally, like they murdered your family (...And got away with it), when in fact you are no different to the next guy who has a watch needing repairs. "The troubles" you mentioned are not unique to you in such situations and weren't deliberately imposed upon you by the company, right? They have sent you a working watch and they have done all they can to simplify the return process for you as best as they could. What more do you want?

Are you also forgetting how much we're paying for these watches or do you fail to see what you get from them (and perhaps unaware of their value)- elabore Swiss movement, top quality materials etc? Have you carefully compared to similar priced items on the market? Inevitably some things need to be "sacrificed" when items are offered at low margins. Freebies and other kiss a$$ gestures are just nice-to-haves and not a given, especially when a company is trying to do the right thing by keeping prices low but those ultimately cost the company too. I certainly prefer the company to continue to stay in business and keep selling their watches at nice prices, rather than get a gift I might not like or will never use.

As for allowing you to exchange your one week old, non-functioning watch for something else, that's just bad business. Also, believe it or not, you are bound by the terms of the return/exchange policy. You have obviously worn the watch and taken all the plastic off (irrespective of whether the movement is faulty) - that automatically negates your right to an exchange. It does not matter if you intend to buy a more expensive piece. They are just "playing by the rules" and again, not out to upset you and you alone...

Also, referring one or two casual customers does NOT make you an instant VIP. A lot of us do it all the time, with many things we use. Believe it or not, they have no problems selling watches and losing one or two customers, like yourself, is not an issue.

And finally, what has having lived in Japan got to do with this discussion? In this day and age many of us have lived in multiple countries. Isn't comparing your inevitably limited (perhaps sheltered) physical experience in Japan with an internet transaction with a GERMAN company pushing it a bit? If you are residing in China (according to the tracking info you posted) you should be used to extremely poor (by most western standards) customer service and if you are as worldly as you claim to be, you should be a lot more understanding and know that such an entitled attitude will get you no where.

(And before anyone jumps to conclusions, Dec1968 is far from being my boyfriend and I don't work for Steinhart, as some here would know already ....)


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

That was a long post. 
All I have to say is that this whole affair is very transactional. Do this, do that (lie on your customs declaration, I may add).
No regret, no apology. Fine. I'll see how it comes back and be interested to see if they tell me what the problem was - then at least I'll have an idea how serious (and preventable) it was. 

"Stop complaining - they're going to fix it for you, aren't they? Paid for the return postage, didn't they?"
Both points are true, but I don't know why I should be grateful for that. Point stands I'm in a crappy position and they have legal obligations (which they are pretty regimented about).
I assume it is because they're a German company that the customer service is like this. I was also under the impression that microbrands offered more personalised service than a big company, but that's not necessarily the case.

In future, if someone asks me about the Steinhart on my wrist, the conversation would go like this:
Me - "Good value, can't find a cheaper ETA movement, I suppose. This one died within a week and I had to send it back to get fixed. The customer service wasn't amazing."
I don't know what would be going through the other guy's head, but it's not a ringing endorsement.


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

Man... I have to say that some Steinhart watch owners are very tolerable. But I'm with Earthjade on this one. I've returned an Ocean Ti GMT with a defective GMT hand to Gnomon and will be receiving the replacement tomorrow (4/12). If the watch I receive tomorrow is misaligned or has a defective GMT hand like the prior, sorry.... it's going back and I expect a full refund (I'll probably buy a used Tudor Pelagos at this point). That's how business is done. Gnomon customer service is EXCELLENT and if I were them I would stop selling Steinharts.

Are you kidding me? For $500-$700 I expect a watch in good working order when it arrives at my front door. And I certainly don't expect it to stop working after wearing it for a week. The solution was to send Earthjade a new watch and NOT fix the defective one that was sent to him. I don't give a crap if it's a micro shop or Seiko I'm dealing with. What a load horsesh!t.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

Did you want a watch or personalised service? If you want personalised service, visit a massage parlor, your might even be delighted at the end


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Man... I have to say that some Steinhart watch owners are very tolerable. But I'm with Earthjade on this one. I've returned an Ocean Ti GMT with a defective GMT hand to Gnomon and will be receiving the replacement tomorrow (4/12). If the watch I receive tomorrow is misaligned or has a defective GMT hand like the prior, sorry.... it's going back and I expect a full refund (I'll probably buy a used Tudor Pelagos at this point). That's how business is done. Gnomon customer service is EXCELLENT and if I were them I would stop selling Steinharts.
> 
> Are you kidding me? For $500-$700 I expect a watch in good working order when it arrives at my front door. And I certainly don't expect it to stop working after wearing it for a week. The solution was to send Earthjade a new watch and NOT fix the defective one that was sent to him. I don't give a crap if it's a micro shop or Seiko I'm dealing with. What a load horsesh!t.


Your case is completely different but your attitude is exactly the same. Anders had sent you proof, as you requested that the watch was propelry aligned when it left him, you said so yourself....then you called BS on the likelihood that it might have been damaged during shipping when you received it. Now that's complete BS and just sounds like you are putting the blame on the person who's more likely to give you the easiest and best recourse. Acting all gung-ho isn't going to make you any more right. Be grateful that Anders isn't even contesting your case because he had gone out of his way to prove to you it was working when it left him.

I would suggest you get a Pelagos instead, if you have the funds and a local dealer. At least you will have no one to blame when you think you have checked it and made sure that (as you suggest can) it doesn't stop in a week or two.....all before you leave the shop........But of course, you will still blame them if something goes wrong, because you can.....


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

Personalized service? How so? To expect to receive a watch in working order and one that doesn't die within a week is personalized service?

I received my Ocean Ti GMT that wasn't in good working order last week from Gnomon. I returned it on their dime at their suggestion. They received it this past Monday and sent out a replacement immediately that I'm scheduled to receive tomorrow.

That's what I call customer service. If you want to call it something else, be my guest. Steinhart will be out of business if this continues. Mark my words.


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

Watchfreek - The original watch could have been damaged in transit. But I have to ask: How the hec can a watch that's packaged so well be damaged in transit? That tells me the watch assembled poorly at the Steinhart facility.

The bottom line is that sellers like Anders did the best he could do. He took a pic of the alignment and hooked it up to a machine to show accuracy. And that's all I expected him to do. I don't blame Anders at all. I FULLY BLAME Steinhart. Their QC sucks. 

And again... I credit Anders and all at Gnomon for their EXCELLENT customer service. They did the right thing unlike what Steinhart is doing to Earthjade. That's disgraceful.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Personalized service? How so? To expect to receive a watch in working order and one that doesn't die within a week is personalized service?
> 
> I received my Ocean Ti GMT that wasn't in good working order last week from Gnomon. I returned it on their dime at their suggestion. They received it this past Monday and sent out a replacement immediately that I'm scheduled to receive tomorrow.
> 
> That's what I call customer service. If you want to call it something else, be my guest. Steinhart will be out of business if this continues. Mark my words.


Do try to keep up. The OP is looking for personalized service.....fyi I was replying to him, just in case you're not following. Your reply comes after that...


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Watchfreek - The original watch could have been damaged in transit. But I have to ask: How the hec can a watch that's packaged so well be damaged in transit? That tells me the watch assembled poorly at the Steinhart facility.
> 
> The bottom line is that sellers like Anders did the best he could do. He took a pic of the alignment and hooked it up to a machine to show accuracy. And that's all I expected him to do. I don't blame Anders at all. I FULLY BLAME Steinhart. Their QC sucks.
> 
> And again... I credit Anders and all at Gnomon for their EXCELLENT customer service. They did the right thing unlike what Steinhart is doing to Earthjade. That's disgraceful.


Have you seen how some couriers literally throw, lob and drop kick packages from the side of the road to the recepient's doorstep or hurl them into the vans. Did you notice any dents on the outer white box? Plenty of opportunities for the watches to be subjected to extreme shocks. Perhaps they also think the same as you, that the padding is enough but when in fact, any amount of padding will not prevent the jerks from landing after having traveled at great speeds in the air, that WILL throw those hands out of whack - in your case the entire stack of hands (4) had come loose - highly impossible for it to leave the watchmakers desk undetected. If you know how they are held in place (I.e. by friction only) you might understand but clearly you do not.

As said, since there is so much hate and distrust for the brand, be it from a misunderstanding or otherwise, I suggest selling the watch or ask for a refund (if you can), and just move on. No pointing holding a grudge and stlll having to wear the watch right?


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

Watchfreek - I guarantee you that if tomorrow I receive another defective watch, I will request a refund and send it back immediately. I will NOT keep it and bring it to a watch maker for fixing (as I've read others did only to be told that it was improper hand installation at the root cause). Sorry. I won't accept that and neither should you or anyone else. As one poster said on another thread: This isn't a pair of socks we're purchasing.

However..... if the watch is in perfectly good working order (meaning it keeps time within the +7 seconds sent to me in a pic & the GMT hand is perfectly aligned) and doesn't die on me within the time frame of the warranty specifications, then I will wear it proudly. Afterall, I purchased the watch because I think it's a beautiful piece with a very good ETA movement.

I don't buy or wear watches to get compliments from others. I wear them because they mean something to me and some have a story behind it. If I were that shallow to seek a compliment I would buy a Rolex and call it a day.


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

Watchfreek - FYI... I have a Seiko Monster Diver that I adore. One day I was working in the back yard. I had a long handled yard pick and was violently hacking away at some tree roots not realizing I was wearing my Seiko. Well guess what happened? The strap gave in and off went my Seiko smashing into the concrete floor. The watch stopped and my heart skipped a beat. But guess what? After a couple of minutes of adjusting the hands and the day-date the watch started working again never losing a second. All hands were aligned. Nothing was broken.

Yes.... I expect that Steinhart to perform the same regardless of how the folks of DHL or Fedex do to the package.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Watchfreek - FYI... I have a Seiko Monster Diver that I adore. One day I was working in the back yard. I had a long handled yard pick and was violently hacking away at some tree roots not realizing I was wearing my Seiko. Well guess what happened? The strap gave in and off went my Seiko smashing into the concrete floor. The watch stopped and my heart skipped a beat. But guess what? After a couple of minutes of adjusting the hands and the day-date the watch started working again never losing a second. All hands were aligned. Nothing was broken.
> 
> Yes.... I expect that Steinhart to perform the same regardless of how the folks of DHL or Fedex do to the package.


Now try throwing the Seiko, it would be better if it was a gmt as well, from the side of the road to your porch or at least a great distance (perhaps >50ft?), wrapped on bubble wrap and then see what happens. Yes indeed we are not talking about a pair of socks - they will dislodge or break something on impact at some point.

Anyway I'm not here to convince you or anyone to stick with the brand or to try prove anyone wrong, but I am trying to add a bit of balance and logic into the complaints that have persisted of late. Believe what you like but clearly those who are not demonstrating any degree of understanding in their situations, clearly do not have any understanding of how things work in the first place - and this understanding isn't anything that is specialised or in-depth but rather something that is fairly logical and any WIS (or simply watch fan) will learn over time.


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

We'll agree to disagree.


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## RotorBoater (Mar 31, 2016)

Earthjade said:


> So I received my Steinhart Ocean One 39 black in early March but only started wearing from the 19th. Worked fine until this morning when I noticed the second hand wasn't moving. At first I thought the watch had wound down, which would have been strange since I had worn it for a few hours the day before. Manual winding didn't start it back up and wearing it on my wrist for an hour also didn't start it back up. The watch isn't ticking but if I move the watch in small circles, I can hear the rotor inside freely moving.
> 
> So I just sent an email to Steinhart's service address describing everything above and hope to hear from them within 24 hours. I'm not angry or anything but just a little bit disappointed that I got a faulty timepiece. Still, it's better it happened now very early in my ownership than months or years later.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure about shipping but I wouldn't be surprised if they paid. I've heard they have excellent customer service.

As far as exchanging for a different watch, that may be an option if your watch is deemed unrepairable. If they can't fix it, they'll probably just swap out the movement and send it back to you. If the issue had to do with the case or something of that sort that they couldn't repair, you could probably get a different one.


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

Wow - the OP seems like a handful, to be honest. 

Germans aren't the kind of people to bow down and love all over you with customer service suckups. Welcome to Earth. Japan has a totally different culture. Don't compare or conflate the two. 

As for switching out your one week old watch - try that with a car...you bought it, wore it, things broke. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. 

OP I'm calling you a primadonna. That is how I see this. 

You said it's reasonable. I say it should work as expected. There are no guarantees in life. They're taking care of it. You're the high maintenance one. That's the way I see it. 

Want Rolex Service Quality?

Buy a Rolex. 

You paid $500 for a Steinhart. You get $500 of service quality. Deal with it. 

Follow me on Instagram- @Dec1968watches


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Earthjade said:


> That was a long post.
> All I have to say is that this whole affair is very transactional. Do this, do that (lie on your customs declaration, I may add).
> No regret, no apology. Fine. I'll see how it comes back and be interested to see if they tell me what the problem was - then at least I'll have an idea how serious (and preventable) it was.
> 
> ...


Forget it man. By now a few things should be apparent to you. To sum up...

1. Nothing is Steinhart's fault. It's either ETA, or Sellita...or FedEx's fault. Because a watch has "thousands" of parts and the fact that it works when you get it is already a miracle.

2. Because Seiko has terrible customer service, you should NOT expect good customer relationship or goodwill from a micro brand like Steinhart.

As a side note I received some exemplary service from Christopher Ward. Curiously I also received a complimentary Shell Cordovan strap as a goodwill for the trouble but the color is just not me so it's just sitting there. But sure as hell I appreciated the gesture and I actually wrote an email to them thanking them for treating them customers well. (by whatever standard Christopher Ward is also a micro the last time I checked)

3. You really shouldn't complain about a watch that breaks down within a month of ownership. Shxt happens and you should "feel lucky" they are having it fixed for you...postage paid no less you lucky sob.

Last but not least, NEVER present an issue with a Steinhart watch on the Steinhart sub forum. Never complain about Seiko on the Seiko sub forum (or mention the name Rolex), and God forbid don't ever mention the word knockoff!

Oh, and if anyone can't take a joke? Take a hike? 

Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk


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## sgav8r (Jun 19, 2007)

For the OP: The 2 Most Important Rules of Life....

1. No one owes you anything. 

2. See rule number 1.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

mui.richard said:


> Forget it man.


Truer words couldn't be more spoken.
Watchfreek went from a disagreeable (but reasonable) point of view to drawing a really long bow regarding the fragility of a watch (rated at 30ATM and meant to last decades) and the physical strength of Fed Ex employees.
Dec1968 has resorted to name-calling.

On this board, I often heard things like "Günter will take care of you" or "I completed my deal with Günter". Watchfreek even refers to him on this forum by his first name.
So yes, someone coming into the Steinhart brand, doing their research and then reading stuff like that will think - "wow, the head of the company takes a personal interest in the affairs of the customers - I'm in good hands. That's an advantage of a microbrand for you!" 
But if something goes wrong, then Steinhart isn't any different to Seiko and why did you expect more? Your sense of entitlement is shocking. 
Well, because:

1) I got that impression from these forums.
2) I've actually had personalised service from microbrands before and that did something extra to stop me feeling like crap. Doesn't need to be physical compensation, either. A lady at the microbrand sent me very considerate emails and I appreciated that. Shout out to Mr. Jones Watches, by the way (https://mrjoneswatches.com/)


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Watchfreek - I guarantee you that if tomorrow I receive another defective watch, I will request a refund and send it back immediately. I will NOT keep it and bring it to a watch maker for fixing (as I've read others did only to be told that it was improper hand installation at the root cause). Sorry. I won't accept that and neither should you or anyone else. As one poster said on another thread: This isn't a pair of socks we're purchasing.
> 
> However..... if the watch is in perfectly good working order (meaning it keeps time within the +7 seconds sent to me in a pic & the GMT hand is perfectly aligned) and doesn't die on me within the time frame of the warranty specifications, then I will wear it proudly. Afterall, I purchased the watch because I think it's a beautiful piece with a very good ETA movement.
> 
> I don't buy or wear watches to get compliments from others. I wear them because they mean something to me and some have a story behind it. If I were that shallow to seek a compliment I would buy a Rolex and call it a day.


Michael, buddy (can I call you buddy?)
If I were in New York, I'd invite you out for a cup of coffee and you could talk to me about your business philosophy while I cry into my macchiato.


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

Earthjade said:


> Michael, buddy (can I call you buddy?)
> If I were in New York, I'd invite you out for a cup of coffee and you could talk to me about your business philosophy while I cry into my macchiato.


I've been called alot worse. I didn't realize you were from Australia. I guessed you were from the north east of the USA. Why? Because we expect stuff we purchase to be in good working order when we purchase them. We refuse to accept stuff that doesn't work upon arrival or stops working after a week or 2 in our possession. Quite frankly, if you do accept crap like that then you're a LOSER, man. I'm not entitled. No way. I'm just not stupid. ;-)

I'm not kidding when I read on 1 thread that people accepted delivery on a Steinhart Ocean One Ti 500 GMT with a defective GMT hand and then bought it to a watch maker to get it fixed. Are you f#cking kidding me? You paid $700 for watch, accepted delivery and then brought it to watch maker to get it fixed? Are you nuts????

BTW... Could I substitute a coffee for a Manhattan or a Martini?


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

Earthjade said:


> Truer words couldn't be more spoken.
> Watchfreek went from a disagreeable (but reasonable) point of view to drawing a really long bow regarding the fragility of a watch (rated at 30ATM and meant to last decades) and the physical strength of Fed Ex employees.
> Dec1968 has resorted to name-calling.
> 
> ...


I'll let these meme's speak about your words....seriously dude....you're special....
























Follow me on Instagram- @Dec1968watches


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

MichaelMaggi said:


> I've been called alot worse. I didn't realize you were from Australia. I guessed you were from the north east of the USA. Why? Because we expect stuff we purchase to be in good working order when we purchase them. We refuse to accept stuff that doesn't work upon arrival or stops working after a week or 2 in our possession. Quite frankly, if you do accept crap like that then you're a LOSER, man. I'm not entitled. No way. I'm just not stupid. ;-)
> 
> I'm not kidding when I read on 1 thread that people accepted delivery on a Steinhart Ocean One Ti 500 GMT with a defective GMT hand and then bought it to a watch maker to get it fixed. Are you f#cking kidding me? You paid $700 for watch, accepted delivery and then brought it to watch maker to get it fixed? Are you nuts????
> 
> BTW... Could I substitute a coffee for a Manhattan or a Martini?


In Australia there's a saying - "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept."
Not sure who first came up with that one, probably some disciple of QC guru William Edwards Deming. I also doubt its an Australian saying because we accept lacklustre customer service standards here too. Definitely agree with its sentiment, though.

My wife, who is Japanese, also wouldn't be agreeing with a lot of the things being said here. She lives by the old saying: お客様は神様です。But can't compare Japan to Germany, apparently, even though both nations became world-beating export powerhouses known for their quality goods. (I bought the Steinhart on the sly with my secret "beer money" account, so I have to keep tight-lipped about this at home.)

In the end, it probably is a German cultural thing. I'm fine with it (not that I have much choice) provided they fix the damn watch and they keep their hands off Alsace-Lorraine.

And yeah, screw it, I'll have a Long Island Iced Tea with a beer to wash it down.


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## Watchfreek (Sep 20, 2012)

Earthjade said:


> Truer words couldn't be more spoken.
> Watchfreek went from a disagreeable (but reasonable) point of view to drawing a really long bow regarding the fragility of a watch (rated at 30ATM and meant to last decades) and the physical strength of Fed Ex employees.
> Dec1968 has resorted to name-calling.
> 
> ...


You three are clearly on the same level, missing every single point! I'm not surprised at all with Mui.Richard, being someone who complains about the date not switching over at precisely midnight (what was it, two minutes before?)... Go figure.

Fragility? No one said anything about fragility. I was talking about one's REASONABLE expectations that the any person is capable of detecting something MAY go wrong down the line on a complex instrument, if it passes all time grapher (look it up if you don't know what it is) and physical inspections. The world is not perfect. Shxt can happen but people also do mishandle and tamper with things and then try to blame others. They even try to lobby support by whining on forums....Of course I have not said you did, but it is possible.

As another example of your (you guys') troubles in grasping reality, the misaligned GMT hands on the OT500 GMTs were in most cases repaired locally ON STEINHART's DIME, as a matter of convenince, customer service if you like (an alternative arrangement of the warranty cover). In some cases it was simply because the owners thought the cost of repairs was not worth the bother of sending it back and risking further damage - in this world some people are results driven and DO opt for the most effective (to them) remedial actions rather than take risks and being petty about it. You should read carefully before judging others.

Btw everyone calls the owner of the company by his first name if they have ever had the chance to chat with him online. I happen to be also fortunate enough to have met him in person. However, is that so important to you? What exactly are you looking for here, really - a watch or a being up close and personal with a company's people? I never once mentioned Gunter in this discussion because I focused on facts and the real issues on hand. In any case, surprise, surprise! Genuine (note, "genuine") respect and friendships are earned. With such unreasonable expectations and accusations (especially when your matter was being dealt with already), and such a self entitled attitude, it isn't going happen. Gunter is indeed normally very approachable and is known by a lot to be very generous and have delighted customers by going beyond expectations and his duty but that is only to people with the right attitude - as dec1968 mentioned, as a German, he won't take shxtty attitudes. There is good reason why he has so many supporters.... You three are definitely not and never will be. I know you lot are still not going to understand or misinterpret what I wrote so I will stop explaining myself now. Good riddance.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

For anyone reading this thread now (or in the future through a Google search), I just want to say that none of the people saying anything disagreeing with me or talking about "the right attitude" actually represent or work for Steinhart and I understand that.

I also want to say that Steinhart have done nothing wrong by me since this whole issue started and are working to fix the issue. However, they haven't done anything good by me, either. How you take my definition of good and whether you think what I have said is unreasonable is up to you and how you interpret my previous posts.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

For those playing at home, I just received an email from Steinhart to say the watch is being shipped back today with an enclosed note. No description of what is in the note. Hope it tells me what the problem was. Shipped back with FedEx, so should arrive in the middle of next week.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

It's been a while since I have posted, but things have happened. Here is a brief recap of my Ocean One 39 Black issue:

19 March - Began wearing my new Steinhart Ocean One 39 Black
26 March - Watch stopped. I contact Steinhart.
27 March - Steinhart replies, tells me to Fed Ex the watch back to Germany for repair.
3 April - I send the watch back by Fed Ex.
9 April - Steinhart confirms receiving the watch, states repairs could take up to 5 weeks.
19 April - I receive email from Steinhart to say the watch is being shipped back with repair notes.
23 April - Watch is delivered to my mother's address.
5 May - I open the package

So that is a three week turnaround, which is decent, wouldn't you say?
Unfortunately for me, the story doesn't end there (wish it had, though). My mother lives about 300km away from me so I don't see her every week. It was only on the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] of May when I was able to visit her and open the package to inspect the returned watch.

First, the repair notes said that the intermediate wheel had been replaced; the watch had been adjusted and then tested for waterproofing. I check the watch and it is moving, so great. Looks like it's fixed! Later testing showed me it's running about 10 seconds fast a day. Not amazing, but in spec. I'm not sure if when they said "adjusted", they meant "regulated" or something else.

I notice is that one of the screws in the bracelet is sticking out about 3mm. This must have been the screw that was taken out so the repairer could access the case back. This is not a big deal. I have jewellers' screwdrivers and took out the links to readjust the size for my wrist.

Next thing I notice is that the watch clasp is now lightly scratched. I sent it back in pristine condition since I had only worn it on two or three occasions. Again, this can't be helped as watch bracelets will get scratched anyway and it MAYBE could have happened in transit. Still, it made me raise my eyebrows.

Third thing I noticed took me a few minutes. Something was odd from the start when I put the watch on but then it dawned on me. The best way to explain the problem is to look at the email back-and-forth that occurred with Steinhart afterwards:


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

*Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. Mai 2018 11:35
An: Aftersale Steinhartwatches*

Dear Steinhart,

Please look at the email history below for details of this watch repair issue.
I was able to open the Fed Ex package for this order yesterday and I note that THE WATCH IS STILL DEFECTIVE.
The watch is now running, but there is now a loose rattling sound within the watch case that should not be there. I have recorded this issue on video and it can be seen here, for your reference:






As this watch has been repaired once already, I am extremely disappointed as a customer of Steinhart that I have received a defective product for a second time. I cannot accept the watch in its current state.
What will Steinhart customer service and repair do for me in this case?

I have returned it once for repair and I have very low confidence that a watch that requires repair twice within the first two months of purchase is a reliable watch. I would not be pleased if the only solution that could be offered to me is to return the watch for repair a second time. I am seeking a replacement of this watch for a new watch OR a refund of my payment (including the initial 40 Euro shipping cost). Alternatively, I would also be willing to pay an extra 30 Euro to have my defective watch replaced with an Ocean One 39 Blue.

Please inform me as to the options Steinhart can offer to me to correct this situation.

Thank You,
Earthjade (obviously my real name was here)

*On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Aftersale Steinhartwatches <[email protected]> wrote:*

Dear Earthjade,
We are very sorry, please send the watch to us again.
Our watchmaker will check the watch again and fix it if necessary. (we refer to our two-time rectification right)
Viele Grüße,
Best regards,
Steinhart (staff member)

*Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. Mai 2018 11:28
An: Aftersale Steinhartwatches*

Dear Steinhart,
Please allow me clarify the current situation as I understand it:

1) I purchased a Steinhart Ocean One 39 Black from your company and within two weeks of ownership, the watch stopped working;
2) Steinhart relied on its "rectification right" to repair the watch;
3) The watch was returned to Germany for repairs;
4) The watch was returned to me. Upon opening the package of the repaired watch, I find it now rattles with a loose piece inside the watch case and clearly remains faulty;
5) I inform Steinhart of this new fault and the reply is Steinhart now relies on their "two-time rectification right" to fix it if necessary.

The rotor inside the watch is clearly loose. How much damage will it cause the watch, shaking around freely within the watchcase for two journeys of 32000 kilometres? How much damage has already been caused to the rotor and case and the delicate machinery within the case? I do not know and I do not find the product that I have been sold in its current state to be of acceptable quality. At this point, I consider myself an aggrieved customer and I have made it clear that I would like either:

a. An exchange for a new and non-faulty watch of the same make and model; or
b. A full refund of my initial payment to my credit card; or
c. Payment of additional 30 Euro for an exchange for a new and non-faulty Steinhart Ocean One 39 Blue.

In all the above cases, I will return the current watch to Steinhart.
Please confirm to me in writing that Steinhart is refusing to offer me any of the three solutions I have suggested and relies upon its "two-time rectification right" to repair the watch.

Thank You,
Earthjade


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## Pjerome (Oct 15, 2010)

My Pepsi GMT Ocean One stopped the other day..Jeweler fixed it in about 10 minutes. Steinhart will cover you and if it's really bad , probably replace it..Sometimes you get a dud...or just might be a piece of dirt holding it up. I never had issues with Steinhart Customer service, you just have to know how to communicate.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

*On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 8:30 PM, Aftersale Steinhartwatches <[email protected]> wrote:*

Dear Earthjade,

I would like to ask you to send the watch to us.
As soon as the watch arrives, we will submit this watch to our management, as I am not authorized to make that decision.

Viele Grüße,
Best regards,
Steinhart (staff member)

*Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. Mai 2018 12:54
An: Aftersale Steinhartwatches
*
Dear Frau XXXXXX,

I understand your position and your restrictions on authorising decisions. Could you please report the facts of this case to a manager with authorisation and please tell them that as a consumer, I rely upon Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament regarding certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees. Specifically, I rely upon Clause 10, which states:

_(10) Whereas, in the case of non-conformity of the goods with the contract, consumers should be entitled to have the goods restored to conformity with the contract free of charge, choosing either repair or replacement, or, failing this, to have the price reduced or the contract rescinded;_

On this issue, I choose to have a replacement Steinhart Ocean One 39 Black, according to my rights as a consumer dealing with a company subject to the laws of the EU.

Richtlinie 1999/44/EG des Europäischen Parlaments und des Rates vom 25. Mai 1999 zu bestimmten Aspekten des Verbrauchsgüterkaufs und der Garantien für Verbrauchsgüter
(10) Bei Vertragswidrigkeit eines Gutes muß der Verbraucher das Recht haben, die unentgeltliche Herstellung des vertragsgemäßen Zustands des Gutes zu verlangen, wobei er zwischen einer Nachbesserung und einer Ersatzlieferung wählen kann; andernfalls muß er Anspruch auf Minderung des Kaufpreises oder auf Vertragsauflösung haben.

Thank you for your assistance and I hope this situation can be resolved quickly.
Upon confirmation Steinhart will send a replacement watch, I will return the current watch via Steinhart's FED EX account and await delivery of the new watch.

Yours Sincerely,
Earthjade

*On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:51 PM, Aftersale Steinhartwatches <[email protected]> wrote:*

Dear Earthjade,

even if there are these guidelines, there is also the right to repair, see attachment.
As offered, you can send the watch to us, we will discuss the whole then after the arrival of the watch with Mr. Steinhart.

Viele Grüße,
Best regards,
Frau XXXXXXX

_** The Steinhart staff member attached a JPEG to the response which had of part of the Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch (BGB), or German Civil Law.**

_








*Section 440 
Special provisions for resignation and damages*​1 Except in the cases of § 281 (2) and § 323 (2), the deadline is not required even if the sellerrefusesboth types of supplementary performance pursuant to § 439 (4) or if the nature of the supplementary performance due to the buyer has failed or is unreasonable is. 2 A remedy shall be deemed to have failed after the unsuccessful second attempt, unless the nature of the item or the defect or the other circumstances indicate otherwise.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

*Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. Mai 2018 14:03
An: Aftersale Steinhartwatches <[email protected]>*

Dear Frau XXXXXX,

You are referring me to the Civil Code of Germany in your last email.
Please understand the principle of Primacy of European Union law. This states that if there is conflict between European law and the law of Member States, European law prevails and the national law is set aside. This was confirmed at the Treaty of Lisbon. Please refer the following to your management:
*
17. Declaration concerning primacy
*
_The Conference recalls that, in accordance with well settled case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union, the Treaties and the law adopted by the Union on the basis of the Treaties have primacy over the law of Member States, under the conditions laid down by the said case law.
The Conference has also decided to attach as an Annex to this Final Act the Opinion of the Council Legal Service on the primacy of EC law as set out in 11197/07 (JUR 260):

'Opinion of the Council Legal Service of 22 June 2007
It results from the case-law of the Court of Justice that primacy of EU law is a cornerstone principle of Union law. According to the Court, this principle is inherent to the specific nature of the European Community. At the time of the first judgment of this established case law (Costa/ENEL,15 July 1964, Case 6/641 (1) there was no mention of primacy in the treaty. It is still the case today. The fact that the principle of primacy will not be included in the future treaty shall not in any way change the existence of the principle and the existing case-law of the Court of Justice._

12008E/AFI/DCL/17
Konsolidierte Fassung des Vertrags über die Arbeitsweise der Europäischen Union - ERKLÄRUNGEN zur Schlussakte der Regierungskonferenz, die den am 13. Dezember 2007 unterzeichneten Vertrag von Lissabon angenommen hat - A. ERKLÄRUNGEN ZU BESTIMMUNGEN DER VERTRÄGE - 17. Erklärung zum Vorrang

[I'm cutting out the rest of the German translation of what you see above]

Thank you for your assistance and I hope this situation can be resolved quickly.
Upon confirmation Steinhart will send a replacement watch, I will return the current watch via Steinhart's FED EX account and await delivery of the new watch.

Yours Sincerely,
Earthjade

*On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:15 PM, Aftersale Steinhartwatches <[email protected]> wrote:*

Dear Earthjade,

thank you very much for your remarks.

I think it makes not much sense to discuss about different aspect of laws. You as we as well are anxious to solve the issue for the satisfaction of both sides.
Please understand that we would like you to send the watch back so we can forward the issue to our watchmaker and our management. I am sure there will be a way to solve the problem since you already several suggestions. Decisions form our side only can be made when we are able to have a look at the watch. After all it is not a 5,00 Euro profuct.
So please be so kind and send back the watch and we will try to solve the problem asap. Thank you very much.

[Rest of email is the same return instructions I received in March]

Best reagards to down under
Another Steinhart staff member (not Frau XXXXXX),
Steinhart Watches GmbH

*Date: Wed, May 9, 2018 at 12:03 AM
To: Aftersale Steinhartwatches <[email protected]>
*
Dear Frau XXXXXX and the Steinhart Team,

I will send the watch back via Fed Ex, but please note I am requesting a replacement.
What I am asking is not unreasonable, given the inadequate repair. I deeply regret I will have to discuss and debate this issue again and insist on my consumer rights once the watch is returned to your company.
Please make a note to contact me again once the watch returns to Steinhart, prior to any action being taken.

Sincerely,
Earthjade


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## RotorBoater (Mar 31, 2016)

You could’ve saved a lot of time by just sending the final email you sent to them and shipping the watch in. Though the process is annoying, it’s a win-win to you. Either the watch gets repaired and you go on your way, or they replace the watch and you go on your way. The rotor just sounds a little loose it could be a quick fix.

Companies have processes like this in places because they’d be losing money out the wazoo if they just replaced every customers watch without looking at it first.

I still hope you get a new watch


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## JoeC (Jun 20, 2010)

Sorry about your experience. My advice would be to fix it, sell it upon return, and never look back at Steinhart. There are plenty of other watch companies out there.


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

I hope they send you a replacement. I'll never understand it. What would it take to accept the returned watch and send back a new one? It's just good business. They can fix the watch, polish it up and sell it as new to someone else. I'm pretty sure that's what they did with my O1TiGMT. 

Whatever. You're at their mercy. Good luck.


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## bjjkk (Oct 20, 2011)

I used to work for UPS in college, and I can guarantee that packages get thrown. Some the length of the parcel truck to crash into a metal wall. Then fall to the belt to be sorted. Its just the way it is done. I have seen packages that were well packaged burst open. I have heard things break in the packages. If the package gets stuck in a jam on the belt a good kick is usually used to break up the jam. No one intentionally sets out to break someone's package, but the unloading is usually done by a college student, who is managed by a douche (in my experience) who wants the line of trucks (15-20) unloaded as fast as possible to keep the schedule. If you fall behind then two guys go in the truck and start throwing stuff. It's not the delivery guy who usually breaks stuff it's the guys in the sort facilities. I am not surprised when stuff breaks in shipping. I laugh every time I read a member say how could a watch leave a company broken, why didn't QC catch this, and are positive it couldn't have happened in shipping, the shipping company would never break something lol. 

As for Steinhart, my experience with them has been positive. I purchased a Steinhart second hand out of warranty. The lug pin failed when someone bumped into me, and the watch fell to the street. Shattering the crystal. I emailed Steinhardt explained everything full expecting to pay for the repair. They fixed it for free, even though it was out of the warranty period. 

After reading this whole thread I agree with the other members who think you are being unreasonable. Try buying any watch from a brick and mortar store take all the protection off, wear it, and then bring 8t back for an exchange. Let me know how that works for you..


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

JoeC said:


> Sorry about your experience. My advice would be to fix it, sell it upon return, and never look back at Steinhart. There are plenty of other watch companies out there.


Good thing that isn't your philosophy on everything else like dating, marriage, bad food, stubbed toes, etc.......

Follow me on Instagram- @Dec1968watches


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

bjjkk said:


> After reading this whole thread I agree with the other members who think you are being unreasonable. Try buying any watch from a brick and mortar store take all the protection off, wear it, and then bring 8t back for an exchange. Let me know how that works for you..


You do realise that the watch was broken twice and in two different ways, right? And that I have already sent it once for repair, which didn't actually repair the watch?
I don't know of any brick and mortar store that _wouldn't _offer an exchange or store credit for a broken product. This isn't because I've "changed my mind".
I've checked the EU law - I have the choice of a repair or a replacement (and we already tried repair).


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## JoeC (Jun 20, 2010)

Dec1968 said:


> Good thing that isn't your philosophy on everything else like dating, marriage, bad food, stubbed toes, etc.......
> 
> Follow me on Instagram- @Dec1968watches


Good thing indeed!

When you are dealing with sh!tters, it's best to know how to proceed accordingly. FWIW, I had a Steinhart. It ran _very_ well, but the bezel imperfections led me to sell it. All in all though, Steinhart is a good watch for the money.

To add, I had similar QC issues with a Tudor; I ended up taking the same path I advised the OP to take and sold it after repair.

Sh!tters, it seems, aren't limited to certain price points.


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## s2kstephen (Aug 14, 2014)

"Patience is not simply the ability to wait, it's how we behave while we're waiting."

Sometimes the best things happen from challenges. Life is full of lessons, so take from this experience the positive and learn from it.

I see a lot of time and consternation by you on here - life is more than about the 'headache' of getting a watch that majority on this planet will never afford.

For ex: My Steinhart was purchased new off Ebay, and my dial is flaking off inside. Should it happen, no. Did it, yes. The downside is I don't have any receipt, so I can't return it to Steinhart for repair, so I'm stuck with it. So there's always a situation worse than yours. Relax, it's a watch.


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## Kurt Behm (Mar 19, 2006)

Pushing for a different watch, to me, seems suspicious. My experience with
them after four watches has been sterling.

KPB


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Bloody oath I'm trying to get a new watch! They sent me a "repaired watch" with a loose rotor!
How much damage has been done to the inside of the watch case, with a loose rotor banging around inside it?
There are fine cogs and wheels inside a mechanical watch, yeah? What about things like:

* a scratched up inside case back 
* minute particles of shaved metal floating around inside of the movement. Sure, the watch might work fine for several years but then suddenly seize up because something got jammed with a particle.
* bent parts
* parts with microscopic stress fractures which, may not be visible to a magnifying glass but has shortened the life of the part. Even one tooth coming off a cog is going to screw it up.

I don't even know why people would question this. Who wants to deal with that uncertainty? On a tiny precision machine that is meant to beat almost 30,000 times every hour, all-day, every-day?
If the watch is so good, Steinhart can have it back, repair it and give it to someone else - no skin off their nose. Just give me a new watch and some peace of mind or failing that, a refund.

I notice none of the detractors here have even mentioned that if this was a brick and mortar store, you could go back with your receipt and have the faulty item exchanged. Somehow this case is different? It isn't! There's nothing special about a watch compared to anything else. And none of you would choose to buy a second-hand watch repaired by Steinhart twice compared to a second-hand watch that never needed repairs if all else was equal - admit it.

In fact, I'm surprised there are even detractors. None of this would be happening if Steinhart, on two occasions, had actually given me a watch that worked. That is, the product that I paid for.


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## bjjkk (Oct 20, 2011)

s2kstephen said:


> "Patience is not simply the ability to wait, it's how we behave while we're waiting."
> 
> Sometimes the best things happen from challenges. Life is full of lessons, so take from this experience the positive and learn from it.
> 
> ...


In my repair I did not have a receipt from Steinhart, and they still repaired their product. Email them with a picture of the defect. I would think my experience is not limited to me, and they will fix it.


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## Vlance (Apr 12, 2014)

Damn... I hate reading about these bad experiences. Hope something gets figured out. Would hate it to be.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

bjjkk said:


> Email them with a picture of the defect.


I sent them a Youtube video (Post #49 of this thread).


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Is this saga at an end? 
After the events of Post #52 I sent the watch back via Fed Ex, like I had done before. Here is a timeline of events since last I posted:

May 14 - I send the watch back via Fed Ex
May 18 - I get an email from Steinhart customer service saying that they have received the watch and that as a gesture of "good will", they are willing to replace the watch with a new Ocean Black 39 although it could just as easily be repaired (didn't seem to understand why I would prefer a new watch to a repaired one). I thanked Steinhart for the email and said I would be looking forward to getting the replacement watch.
May 22 - Email from Steinhart to say new watch has been shipped.
May 30 - Watch arrives at my mother's house (I had told them to ship it to my home address this time but oh well...)
Jun 8 - Visit my mother and get the watch. A few points:

* The watch is indeed new (or at least not my original watch). I was a little skeptical and checked to see if I didn't get my old one back but refurbished. It isn't that one and I have to say I'm a little relieved seeing as the old one had to have the balance wheel and intermediate wheel replaced and have the loose rotor refitted and who knows what else. I don't want to know what Steinhart has done with that one...
* The boxes remain original to my first purchase. The outer white cardboard box is un-presentable. It's been on 5 global trips and is banged up around the corners and some edges have torn loose. Steinhart even slapped some clear tape around the rips to keep it together.
* I have not worn the watch and its still sitting in its plastic wrap. I keep it wound and it seems to be working at +5 a day.

Now I'm debating whether to just sell it and move on or unwrap it and wear it.
Is there anyone interested in a new Steinhart Ocean Black 39, never been worn? PM me if you are with an offer, but no guarantees I will sell. 

Finally, I just want to say that there are a lot of people on this thread that have demonstrated to me that they care more about the reputation of Steinhart than the people who buy and wear their watches and run into difficulties. I don't know why - Steinhart isn't paying anyone here (that I know of) a commission for their efforts. All I have to say is, if I hadn't stuck to my guns and decided to ignore a lot of the "advice" from this thread, I wouldn't have gotten a replacement watch (which is just standard retail practice in situations like this anywhere else).
And no one here can say getting a new replacement Ocean One 39 Black running at +5 wasn't a better result than getting one that has been two-times repaired in the course of two months...

POSITIVES
+ Steinhart customer service is quick to respond
+ Turnaround from Steinhart was quick both times
+ They don't question your problem and are open with the return postage (just a point - under German and EU law, it is actually a LEGAL REQUIREMENT that customers that require rectification have it done at no cost to themselves)

NEGATIVES
- Repaired once and came back with a different defect
- INFLEXIBLE SERVICE. Had to wrangle with great effort to get my preferred solution to the issue
- Original packing box not replaced through process (so you will get a trashed outer box at the end)


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

The end?


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## WatchChap (Jun 12, 2018)

Hopefully this is the end of your issues with Steinhart, however I felt the need to register and contribute here due to having had customer service issues of my own recently. I will preface this by saying my first experience with them was great; a nice watch, delivered swiftly and without any manufacturing issues. My recent purchase was a much more arduous experience and one that is, unfortunately, still not resolved.

With regard to their insistence on repair rather than replacement, I was fed the same line. I believe your assessment of the EU directives to be correct and, having done some digging of my own, the German civil law seems to support this; fortunately for us the Bundestag is kind enough to translate their laws into English:

*Section 439
Cure*

_(1) As cure *the buyer may, at his choice, demand that the defect is remedied or a thing free of defects is supplied*.

(2) The seller must bear all expenses required for the purpose of cure, in particular transport, workmen's travel, work and materials costs.

(3) Without prejudice to section 275 (2) and (3), the seller may refuse to provide the kind of cure chosen by the buyer, if this cure is possible only at disproportionate expense. In this connection, account must be taken in particular, without limitation, of the value of the thing when free of defects, the importance of the defect and the question as to whether recourse could be had to the alternative kind of cure without substantial detriment to the buyer. The claim of the buyer is restricted in this case to the alternative kind of cure; the right of the seller to refuse the alternative kind of cure too, subject to the requirements of sentence 1 above, is unaffected.

(4) If the seller supplies a thing free of defects for the purpose of cure, he may demand the return of the defective thing in accordance with sections 346 to 348._

As you can see above, the law in Germany is in line with the EU directive, so I can't see why Steinhart feel the need to knowingly mislead their customers. I don't have access to any detailed case law so it may be that they interpret s439(3) to mean that a replacement is disproportionate to a repair. Whilst I could see this being the case with an item in the €2000+ range, it seems a weak argument here.

Whilst their CS is good when everything is going well, they should really be judged on their CS when things are not going well and seeming to knowingly mislead a customer about their consumer rights is very poor form in my opinion.


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## Shizmosis (Feb 26, 2017)

Just send it back to Steinhart, they will surely take good care about your mentioned issue.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

WatchChap said:


> Hopefully this is the end of your issues with Steinhart, however I felt the need to register and contribute here due to having had customer service issues of my own recently. I will preface this by saying my first experience with them was great; a nice watch, delivered swiftly and without any manufacturing issues. My recent purchase was a much more arduous experience and one that is, unfortunately, still not resolved.
> 
> With regard to their insistence on repair rather than replacement, I was fed the same line.
> 
> ...


Hello WatchChap.

I think you're right about s493(3). That provision was put in so that a seller could reasonably handle a big rectification like a car or a home renovation. A 300 Euro watch? Not so much.

You are fortunate in the sense that you are living in the UK and Brexit has not yet kicked in. As a resident of the EU, you do have a form of redress that might light a fire under Steinhart to take some action and give you the replacement you are entitled to by law. Contact the European Consumer Centre Germany and fill out their form:

https://www.evz.de/en/solving-your-problem/help-from-the-ecc-germany/

Hopefully, if all goes well, they will get the details of your case, take it on and send an email to Steinhart. There's a chance Steinhart will not want to get into a bull and cow over it and give you what you are after to save themselves the bother.
I was not able to use the services of these guys being an Australian resident (even though I was dealing with a German company) but you may have a better time of it.

Good luck!


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## Shizmosis (Feb 26, 2017)

wow, sad to read such bad experiences...


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## Scott_from_Worcester (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi Earthjade, sorry for your trouble.
I've always believed the opposite in what you are saying: that a retail anywhere would take a watch back
after you've worn it. Some years back, a young man on a Rolex forum on another site went into a very reputable
Rolex AD here in Massachusetts and bought a new Sub Date 16610. After a little while he noticed (from what I
remember: we're going back a ways here) one of the lugs was above the end link, while the other 3 were even,
or vice-verca. Well you pay so much for those, and like a new watch PERFECT, and after a little
while with your eye keep gravitating to the bad spot, he brought it back to the AD. They said the watch was
now used and would not refund or exchange for a new one, that was their policy. He argued it was a DEFECT, he
didn't change his mind about the watch, it was unfixable (he showed me how they grins the lugs
down. I don't know how it got messed up to this day), but they would not refund or exchange. We
stopped keeping in touch, but last I knew, he was going to leave it in a sock drawer and let it
appreciate in value.
So I don't know where you are coming from when you say ANY brick and morter store would accept
a worn watch back for a refund or exchange. I also google something like "Refund policy new watches"
and I got back a bunch that would gladly refund or exchange IF the watch was new and unworn.
Am I missing something? I guees I could call my jeweler and ask him, but, well, I guess I'd
feel awkward.
Sorry the reply is so long, and I'm glad you got a new watch, whatever the policy is. I believe
it was the right thing to do. I wished it happened for the Rolex guy I mentioned.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

I don't know what the law is in Massachusetts, but that sounds fishy to me. A search of any advanced economy will show that the government has passed laws to give consumers the legal right to exchanges, refunds and rectifications.
In Australia, where I live, we are protected by the Competition and Consumer Act 2010. Here's a description that would have covered the guy with the rolex problem:

_*'No refund' and other signs*
Generally, these signs are against the law:

'No refund' 
'No refund on sale items' 
'No refunds after seven days' 
'Refunds on unworn items only' 
'We will only exchange, repair or give credit notes'

Signs that state 'no refunds' are unlawful, because they imply it is not possible to get a refund under any circumstance - even when there is a problem with the goods or service, like a defect or lack of due care and skill._

https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/products-and-services/business-practices/store-policies/no-refund-signs

Obviously, this isn't Massachusetts law but I am 99% sure that they would have a similar law that made it illegal for a vendor to claim they had a "no refund" policy.

Also, if you look at Post #68 of this topic, you'll see WatchChap posted a link to the German Law, Section 439, which gives consumers the right to a replacement or repair at their discretion (unless the replacement would be unreasonably expensive). What this means is that, in my dealings with Steinhart, they referred me to the German Law that gave them a right of repair, but they did not show me the part of the law which gave me a right of replacement as well. That's willfully misleading the consumer as to their rights.

I'm not sure about 80% of the responses here. Am I missing something? 
Is there something about American values and culture where if you buy something that's a dud, it's just your bad luck and you should take whatever you can get? Have the big corporations whipped the pride and fighting spirit out of the average American to stand up for themselves for fear of offending others? I got my replacement watch and it wasn't because I was "being unreasonable". What I did was 100% provided for in German law! If someone ever ran into problems with a watch I bet they would be grateful for any remedy the law provided to set it right.

There's a reason we use the term "snake oil salesmen" - it's because in the old days, vendors would sell whatever they wanted and make spurious claims without legal obligation. It was buyer beware. thankfully, the government and society held that if you sell something, you need to do it reliably and honestly. Buyer beware still exists, but isn't it nice to know that if something goes wrong, you're not flapping in the wind? That Rolex story is crazy. This is something that costs the same as a car. I would have pushed the case for all I was worth. If the AD didn't want to cooperate, it would be worth a few hundred bucks to get a lawyer to send them a letter. There's probably lower-priced consumer advisory centers that would help him. How could you just buy a Rolex and then place it in a drawer? OMG...


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## Dogs857 (Apr 5, 2018)

Lots of good info in here to take away.

I've just ordered an Ocean One Green for my father for his birthday. So to make sure I don't run into too many issues I should do the following;

1. Check it out when I first get it and make sure it is really the watch I want _before_ I take it out of the plastic.
2. Wear it for a while and make sure it's functioning properly.
3. If it is broken send it back and patiently wait for it to return. Maybe take off the bracelet so other people don't accidentally scratch it.
4. Have it repaired as often as needed as Steinhart are willing to do that until it is functioning properly.
5. Don't send it back in the original box as they won't replace it for me each time.
6. Don't act like an entitled tool during the whole process.

Thanks mate, really helpful. I never would have thought of any of these points otherwise.


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## Scott_from_Worcester (Apr 23, 2018)

Earthjade said:


> I don't know what the law is in Massachusetts, but that sounds fishy to me. A search of any advanced economy will show that the government has passed laws to give consumers the legal right to exchanges, refunds and rectifications. In Australia, where I live, we are protected by the Competition and Consumer Act 2010. Here's a description that would have covered the guy with the rolex problem: _*'No refund' and other signs* Generally, these signs are against the law: 'No refund' 'No refund on sale items' 'No refunds after seven days' 'Refunds on unworn items only' 'We will only exchange, repair or give credit notes' Signs that state 'no refunds' are unlawful, because they imply it is not possible to get a refund under any circumstance - even when there is a problem with the goods or service, like a defect or lack of due care and skill._ https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/products-and-services/business-practices/store-policies/no-refund-signs Obviously, this isn't Massachusetts law but I am 99% sure that they would have a similar law that made it illegal for a vendor to claim they had a "no refund" policy. Also, if you look at Post #68 of this topic, you'll see WatchChap posted a link to the German Law, Section 439, which gives consumers the right to a replacement or repair at their discretion (unless the replacement would be unreasonably expensive). What this means is that, in my dealings with Steinhart, they referred me to the German Law that gave them a right of repair, but they did not show me the part of the law which gave me a right of replacement as well. That's willfully misleading the consumer as to their rights. I'm not sure about 80% of the responses here. Am I missing something? Is there something about American values and culture where if you buy something that's a dud, it's just your bad luck and you should take whatever you can get? Have the big corporations whipped the pride and fighting spirit out of the average American to stand up for themselves for fear of offending others? I got my replacement watch and it wasn't because I was "being unreasonable". What I did was 100% provided for in German law! If someone ever ran into problems with a watch I bet they would be grateful for any remedy the law provided to set it right. There's a reason we use the term "snake oil salesmen" - it's because in the old days, vendors would sell whatever they wanted and make spurious claims without legal obligation. It was buyer beware. thankfully, the government and society held that if you sell something, you need to do it reliably and honestly. Buyer beware still exists, but isn't it nice to know that if something goes wrong, you're not flapping in the wind? That Rolex story is crazy. This is something that costs the same as a car. I would have pushed the case for all I was worth. If the AD didn't want to cooperate, it would be worth a few hundred bucks to get a lawyer to send them a letter. There's probably lower-priced consumer advisory centers that would help him. How could you just buy a Rolex and then place it in a drawer? OMG...


 Hi Earthjade, thanks for your response to my reply. Wow, so detailed. First, I dont know if anyone else is having trouble with posts, but maybe I am doing something wrong. I have to doubleclick reply, and then it sends me to a place with no spellcheck and makes my apostrophe some weird symbol. 10-12 years ago I was so into watches, I would make hardcopies of forum members post of great interest (I actually did that for the recent OVM review). I went looking in an old box full of junk to see if I could find those posts the young man made, or his email address to contact him, anything to find more info, but I did not. I dont remember if he followed any legal course, something tells me he didnt. The fact that I remember the posts at all after all this time shows what in impact it had on me. His situation turned him from a staunch Rolex defender to not wanting anything to do with the company and the forum members. I remember him getting interested in Omega Panet Ocean and the coaxial escapement. Makes me wish he had you posting to him back then.
I'm kind of new here, my applologies if I brought the Steinhart Forum off topic...


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Dogs857 said:


> 6. Don't act like an entitled tool during the whole process.
> 
> Thanks mate, really helpful. I never would have thought of any of these points otherwise.


Entitled according to the law - don't forget that part. 
All the passive-aggressiveness from this topic leads me to believe most posters here wanted me to send back the watch again and again to get it repaired because to do anything otherwise causes trouble for Steinhart. 
Everyone in real life that isn't a watch collector that I've explained the story to is like "of course they owe you a new watch."


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## Dogs857 (Apr 5, 2018)

Hey mate I hear you.

I know that with every company I have ever dealt with nothing gets their customer service juices flowing like having someone quote consumer law to them.

BTW I am not a collector, I own and wear one watch and have my whole life. I logged into here to research a brand I couldn't physically see for both myself and my father as a good quality Swiss watch. As someone who is not a collector, nor a Steinhart fanboy, I can assure you that the way you describe this whole interaction doesn't cover yourself in glory at all.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

I didn't want "glory". What on earth are you talking about? I wanted a working watch and preferably one that hadn't been repaired TWICE since, you know, I paid for a new watch. I'm sure Steinhart will survive the emails I sent them referencing EU Law. Sometimes you have to insist.

And you could have read my story and shook your head and left it at that, but you felt the need, on your 6th post in a new forum, to call another poster an "entitled tool". Your choice Danger Mouse, but it says something about you as well, doesn't it? 

Steinhart doesn't want customers to know they can ask for a replacement according to German law and they will push you towards repair. If your father runs into trouble with your gift - at least you'll know you have options. 

I guess people don't really understand until they run into trouble. I'll never be like that guy that bought a Rolex, couldn't get it rectified and then decided to place it in a drawer. That's borderline insanity given the price he likely paid.


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## Dogs857 (Apr 5, 2018)

Sorry, you were so busy quoting common sayings amongst your posts I thought you would understand that "covering yourself in glory" means acting in a upstanding and correct manner. Perhaps it's not a saying that you are all too familiar with.

My post count has little to do with it, in fact I would have been happy to use my first post to highlight my thoughts on this thread. Yes it does say a lot about me and my ability to suffer fools wouldn't you agree?? And before you get too indignant I actually said that I learnt not to act like an entitled tool while dealing with people, I didn't call you one. For someone with such an anal retentive nature such as you project I thought you would have picked up on that.

Have fun with your new watch and I shall bid you adieu.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Now I'm an anal retentive fool - I'd like to know what your version of "upstanding and correct" would have been in this situation. Not what you wouldn't have done, but what you WOULD have done.
Have a good one - if you're bidding me adieu, let me just summarise your contribution to the thread:

"Hey Earthjade, you self-entitled tool - I would have acted in a more upstanding and correct manner in this situation, you anally retentive fool!"

Since "fool" and "tool" rhyme, you could have treated us all to a limerick before you left.


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## Fredcohiba (Jun 29, 2018)

Earthjade - sorry for your issues. What did you decide to do, in the end, keep it or sell it, or haven't you made a decision yet?


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## BigGDallas (May 5, 2016)

Just got a new Steinhart Ocean One Pepsi with Jubilee bracelet last Tue. Excitedly opened the package pulled off the plastic and started to put on the watch. Noticed they installed the bracelet on backwards. Ok I have a few tools and fixed that. No big deal. Next noticed the wings on the End Links did not fit flush like my Ocean One Premium Blue. Next noticed as I tried to set the GMT hand it did not set on the hour correctly when set. Next after setting the GMT as best as possible to 16:00 GMT I lowered by hand looked immediately and the GMT hand jumped to the 22:00 GMT hour. Reset it couple times and each time when I lowered my wrist it jumped. All this right out of the box last Tuesday. Got info back that only option was to send the watch, which I have never worn, to them to be repaired. I would have understood if it had broken during the warranty period i should have sent it in for repair but when it does not work right out of the box it give me pause. I love my Ocean One Premium Blue and it runs almost as good as my Rolex. I was so excited to get this new watch but now soured on the brand, especially after reading this string.

Sent the watch off to Germany today and am waiting to see what happens. Hoping for the best but worried.


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## Vlciudoli (Feb 24, 2013)

Demand a replacement, or refund. Not a repair.



BigGDallas said:


> Just got a new Steinhart Ocean One Pepsi with Jubilee bracelet last Tue. Excitedly opened the package pulled off the plastic and started to put on the watch. Noticed they installed the bracelet on backwards. Ok I have a few tools and fixed that. No big deal. Next noticed the wings on the End Links did not fit flush like my Ocean One Premium Blue. Next noticed as I tried to set the GMT hand it did not set on the hour correctly when set. Next after setting the GMT as best as possible to 16:00 GMT I lowered by hand looked immediately and the GMT hand jumped to the 22:00 GMT hour. Reset it couple times and each time when I lowered my wrist it jumped. All this right out of the box last Tuesday. Got info back that only option was to send the watch, which I have never worn, to them to be repaired. I would have understood if it had broken during the warranty period i should have sent it in for repair but when it does not work right out of the box it give me pause. I love my Ocean One Premium Blue and it runs almost as good as my Rolex. I was so excited to get this new watch but now soured on the brand, especially after reading this string.
> 
> Sent the watch off to Germany today and am waiting to see what happens. Hoping for the best but worried.


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## Triton (Oct 17, 2006)

You can demand all you want, but in the end your are only entitled to what you agreed upon by checking that T&C box during check-out. Don't agree with it? Don't order!


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## Vlciudoli (Feb 24, 2013)

Triton said:


> You can demand all you want, but in the end your are only entitled to what you agreed upon by checking that T&C box during check-out. Don't agree with it? Don't order!


Well, that will depend upon the laws in relating to mail order in the territory you reside.

Also, there are various sale and supply laws, across the world, that miss be complied with.

Or you can simply be pushed around.


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## watson.col.cw (Jun 11, 2018)

Earthjade said:


> Now I'm an anal retentive fool - I'd like to know what your version of "upstanding and correct" would have been in this situation. Not what you wouldn't have done, but what you WOULD have done.
> Have a good one - if you're bidding me adieu, let me just summarise your contribution to the thread:
> 
> "Hey Earthjade, you self-entitled tool - I would have acted in a more upstanding and correct manner in this situation, you anally retentive fool!"
> ...


I'm worried about buying myself a Steinhart . Did you get a replacement in the end ? Or a refund

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

OK, just an update and a final summary for those that have a similar issues in the future:

* Steinhart did give me a replacement watch (as I mentioned earlier on in this thread). This watch had no problems and kept amazing time at +5 seconds out of the box.
* I sold the watch last week on a Facebook group for $355US to raise some funds for a Sinn. So overall, my Steinhart experience cost me a $50 loss. There was a lot of interest in the sale and it sold in a few days but I'm amazed just how many cowboys there are out there that come in with low-ball offers like $220.

You have the right to get a replacement watch from Steinhart if you so choose. Nothing Steinhart says can overturn the German law in place that covers your customer rights.
If your watch isn't working, Steinhart will offer to repair it under warranty. You can take them up on this BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO. The alternative is you can get a replacement watch. However, Steinhart will be reluctant to do this for you and say by law they are obliged to repair it and have the legal right to do so. This is partially misleading on Steinhart's part. If you do want a replacement, you can rely on this section of the German Civil Code (the underlined bold bits are by me):

Section 439
Cure

(1) As cure the buyer may, *at his choice*, demand that the defect is remedied or *a thing free of defects is supplied*.

(2) The seller must bear all expenses required for the purpose of cure, in particular transport, workmen's travel, work and materials costs.

SOURCE: http://www.fd.ulisboa.pt/wp-content...BGB-German-Civil-Code-BGB-english-version.pdf

So that's it. I got a replacement and you can too.
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has pulled out Section 439 on Steinhart and asked for a replacement and what their reply was.


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## Nuquhs (Jun 17, 2018)

I read this thread about 2/3 weeks back or so, thought that something so unlucky wouldn't happen to me and pulled the trigger - bought a Steinhart Ocean One Ceramic (42 mm). Watch arrived looking good, wore it for a week everyday, and this morning I left for work wearing it and it just stopped at 9 am. Nothing I do can get the second hand to start moving again.

Just emailed Steinhart and came back to this thread to share. I thought I wouldn't be so unlucky but it appears (from this thread and a few other posters) that their quality control perhaps may not be as good in recent times. I will wait for Steinhart's reply. Pretty disappointed as I really like the watch but it has broken down within a week.


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Nuquhs said:


> their quality control perhaps may not be as good in recent times.


I don't think their quality control has been good at any time, to be honest.

Steinhart will not ask any questions and will tell you to send it back to them for repair, using their FedEx account so you don't have to pay postage. Alternatively, if you want a replacement, be prepared to fight for it but remember to bring up Section 439 of the German Civil Code. But if you read the whole thread, you'll know that, I suppose.

If you want a refund, I think you're S.O.L.


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## venturacounty (Oct 4, 2016)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Watchfreek - I guarantee you that if tomorrow I receive another defective watch, I will request a refund and send it back immediately. I will NOT keep it and bring it to a watch maker for fixing (as I've read others did only to be told that it was improper hand installation at the root cause). Sorry. I won't accept that and neither should you or anyone else. As one poster said on another thread: This isn't a pair of socks we're purchasing.
> 
> However..... if the watch is in perfectly good working order (meaning it keeps time within the +7 seconds sent to me in a pic & the GMT hand is perfectly aligned) and doesn't die on me within the time frame of the warranty specifications, then I will wear it proudly. Afterall, I purchased the watch because I think it's a beautiful piece with a very good ETA movement.
> 
> I don't buy or wear watches to get compliments from others. I wear them because they mean something to me and some have a story behind it. If I were that shallow to seek a compliment I would buy a Rolex and call it a day.


Lol! I think that was actually me who said that, about the pair of socks. lol Memories! Wished I had sent it back then. My Ocean Ti 500 GMT...


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## GT27 (Jun 13, 2016)

This thread is worse than Izzy Folau's hypocrisy.


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