# West End Sowar Prima



## alexiscabel (Jan 25, 2008)

Dear Vintage Watchuseekers,
I would like to ask info again on a watch I acquired. It is a West End Sowar Prima Automatic from the 70s. I've always admired this brand because of its West meets East background. There were more than a million Sowars sold in Asia, and I would like to ask if this baby is rare. Its crown is at 4 o' clock and its days can be in English or Sanskrit (still have to verify if its Sanskrit or Arab though). 

Also, again, I would like to ask about the movement. This is my second automatic watch, the first being my Eterna Kontiki. I like this Sowar. Its pretty shiny with that extended casing at the top and bottom, and it's divided to two sections. I also like the bracelet (with the "W" logo) and its hands. The second hand's red, and the others are not baton, arrowhead or sword. In fact, I don't know what the design is called.

Anyway, I appreciate any info on my inquiries. Thanks.


----------



## alexiscabel (Jan 25, 2008)

alexiscabel said:


> Dear Vintage Watchuseekers,
> I would like to ask info again on a watch I acquired. It is a West End Sowar Prima Automatic from the 70s. I've always admired this brand because of its West meets East background. There were more than a million Sowars sold in Asia, and I would like to ask if this baby is rare. Its crown is at 4 o' clock and its days can be in English or Sanskrit (still have to verify if its Sanskrit or Arab though).
> 
> Also, again, I would like to ask about the movement. This is my second automatic watch, the first being my Eterna Kontiki. I like this Sowar. Its pretty shiny with that extended casing at the top and bottom, and it's divided to two sections. I also like the bracelet (with the "W" logo) and its hands. The second hand's red, and the others are not baton, arrowhead or sword. In fact, I don't know what the design is called.
> ...


Here's the crown and some more pics, thanks again.


----------



## Ray MacDonald (Apr 30, 2005)

Thanks for posting. I don't know enough about the Asian market to comment, but I suspect it's not that rare a watch. The movement looks pretty generic. I'll let our Euro experts comment on the origin.


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Very nice watch. :-! There is a similar one - maybe a bit younger - on sale somewhere with an ETA 2846 movement. I believe that, at one time, West End even used Longines movements (but correction welcomed).


----------



## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Marrick said:


> ...I believe that, at one time, West End even used Longines movements (but correction welcomed).


That would be interesting if they did. If so, it would be the first I have heard of it. I don't think I have ever seen a Longines movement in a non-Longines watch (that was made that way, that is). I went through all the winders Dr. Ranfft has listed and saw no 'example watches' that were not Longines watches... but that's not definitive.

Tissot sold movements evidently sometimes to Omega.

But I too welcome any corrections.


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Eeeb said:


> That would be interesting if they did. If so, it would be the first I have heard of it. I don't think I have ever seen a Longines movement in a non-Longines watch (that was made that way, that is). I went through all the winders Dr. Ranfft has listed and saw no 'example watches' that were not Longines watches... but that's not definitive.
> 
> Tissot sold movements evidently sometimes to Omega.
> 
> But I too welcome any corrections.


Have a look:

http://www.cjbalm.com/watches/watch260.htm

And

http://www.ftgwatch.com.au/military_watches.html


----------



## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

The shock protection on the balance assembly looks like a style that is popular on Russian movements.

Other than the text on the rotor, is there any other text on the movement?


There is a user named aash in the vintage section over at timezone that has a few West End Watch Co pieces that seems to know some of that company's history including it's ties to British forces stationed in India. Try doing some text searches there.


----------



## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

I have a couple of Longines that have jeweler's names on the dial.

The fact that they didn't insist on their own name on the dial suggests that they would have been open to the idea to supplying ebauches to other companies (but that doesn't mean they did). I don't know enough of Longines history to make an informed opinion.


----------



## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Nice watches... yes, they look like Longines movements!

Heretofore the only Longines movements in what are not Longines cases I had seen were strange watches from the Ukraine... Not to disparage an entire country BUT -- the level of dishonesty in their watch market is quite high... to the point where I always assume the watch is a 'concoction' until proven otherwise.

But these look real, at least on the Internet...


----------



## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

bjohnson said:


> I have a couple of Longines that have jeweler's names on the dial.
> 
> The fact that they didn't insist on their own name on the dial suggests that they would have been open to the idea to supplying ebauches to other companies (but that doesn't mean they did). I don't know enough of Longines history to make an informed opinion.


Yes, I have seen that. From what I can tell, that was a pretty widespread practice in it's time.

It is still going on... Bucherer still does it extensively as a jeweler. Here in the States, Belair specializes in supplying such watches.


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Eeeb said:


> Nice watches... yes, they look like Longines movements!
> 
> Heretofore the only Longines movements in what are not Longines cases I had seen were strange watches from the Ukraine... Not to disparage an entire country BUT -- the level of dishonesty in their watch market is quite high... to the point where I always assume the watch is a 'concoction' until proven otherwise.
> 
> But these look real, at least on the Internet...


I cut and pasted the following history into Word about a year ago. I don't know where I got it - and can't find the original now. Apologies to whoever wrote it:

_A cetain Monsieur Charpie created the company in the second half of the 19th century to import pocket watches to India. Initially there was no name on the face but after the creation of the International Bureau for the protection of Intellectual property he decided to add a Helvetia figure (as she appeared on Swiss coins); this proved a disaster as Muslims cannot accept reproductions of the human form so, in a panic, he ordered replacement dials bearing the word West End Watch Company (because he always stayed in, and appreciated, the West End on his visits to London.)

There were two sales centres - Bombay and Calcutta. 

1886 - Company bought by Messrs Droz and Arnstutz.

1917 - Creation of a Swiss holding comapny

During WW1 British troops were deployed to the Persian Gulf via Bombay - they bought thousands of West End watches (the Queen Ann model) and the fame spread throughout the Far East: even Lawrence of Arabia bought one. 

From 1925 to 1935, again due to the British Army, the name spread through China and the Middle East. 

1934 the Sowar (warrior in Hindi) was fitted with a new invention - Incabloc - and became the most popular model.

1946 West End won an import licence from the Indian Government. 

1955 57 - Exclusive distributors of Longines in India. 

1975 - Indian market closed to foreign companies.

77 - 83 1.2 million watches per year sold - in 1977 1000 watches per day sold in Iran! 

In 1973 the company had been bought by Aubry Freres - a Swiss Horological company. It was sold to a Chinese company in 1990 but bought back in 1993.

Today West End belongs to a Swiss movement company - Monnat & Charmillot -and they are trying to rebuild the brand, with a collection of well priced Swiss mechanical watches with the distinctive West End look. __

It seems that although the brand has changed hands a couple of times ownership has been pretty seamless and generally by a Swiss family firm, apart from the 3 years in the possession of a Chinese calculator manufacturer.

It also seems that the watches were never actually bought and issued by HM Government, but British troops bought them in vast quantities.

_So a strong link with Longines, methinks.:think:_

_


----------



## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

Here is one of his posts that contains some history of the West End Watch Co

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=3058696&rid=0


----------



## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

This post contains this text:
"Some of these watches were fitted with high grade Longines movement (for the high ranking officers). "

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=2757722&rid=0


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

bjohnson said:


> This post contains this text:
> "Some of these watches were fitted with high grade Longines movement (for the high ranking officers). "
> 
> http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=2757722&rid=0


Wonderful stuff - watches & Imperial history! Old Indian ad atached.

BTW, checking Ranfft again - quite a few FHF movements featured in West End watches.


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

The movement is an ETA 2878 or 2879 (depending on beat frequency) - here's a link:

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?00&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2878

Hartmut Richter


----------



## alexiscabel (Jan 25, 2008)

bjohnson said:


> The shock protection on the balance assembly looks like a style that is popular on Russian movements.
> 
> Other than the text on the rotor, is there any other text on the movement?
> 
> There is a user named aash in the vintage section over at timezone that has a few West End Watch Co pieces that seems to know some of that company's history including it's ties to British forces stationed in India. Try doing some text searches there.


Last I saw, the rotor has the only markings, but I'll check that again.


----------



## alexiscabel (Jan 25, 2008)

Marrick said:


> I cut and pasted the following history into Word about a year ago. I don't know where I got it - and can't find the original now. Apologies to whoever wrote it:
> 
> _A cetain Monsieur Charpie created the company in the second half of the 19th century to import pocket watches to India. Initially there was no name on the face but after the creation of the International Bureau for the protection of Intellectual property he decided to add a Helvetia figure (as she appeared on Swiss coins); this proved a disaster as Muslims cannot accept reproductions of the human form so, in a panic, he ordered replacement dials bearing the word West End Watch Company (because he always stayed in, and appreciated, the West End on his visits to London.)
> 
> ...


I saw that write-up too in the web when I was researching the history of West End. There were similar write-ups too. There are a lot of West End vintages coming from Southeast Asia but not where I'm from because we were not a British colony. As I remember, the write-up was not from the company website but from someone else.


----------



## alexiscabel (Jan 25, 2008)

Gosh, these are great resources even the poster. Thanks a lot everyone.


----------



## sjb (Aug 7, 2007)

I have just bought one of these on ebay for £31(approx $62)

Its a super little watch,I love it.:-!


----------



## alexiscabel (Jan 25, 2008)

sjb said:


> I have just bought one of these on ebay for £31(approx $62)
> 
> Its a super little watch,I love it.:-!


Yeah, love it too. Something about the design, maybe because of that red second hand that complements the black dial and green hands and numbers or the stainless steel shine. 'can't really put my finger on it. Mine took some time with my watchguy. The rotor was getting stuck, but it's ok now. I love it.


----------



## mackymd (Aug 31, 2011)

Bought 1 of these from a friend. Very similar face to what was posted, the only difference is that the crown in my watch is at the 3 o clock position. Is there any way to know the production date of this watch?


----------



## alexiscabel (Jan 25, 2008)

'nice to see my old thread alive again. There are serial numbers at the back, but I don't know which of the numbers indicate the production date. 'saw the version with the crown at three but decided to buy the one with the crown at four since it's kind of different


----------



## asrar.merchant (Aug 4, 2014)

Friends I got one of these little pcs too.

It's got a nice 'days of old' feel to it.
Can't say exactly what but something is there about it.


----------



## Space Noodle (Sep 3, 2014)

I just won this one on the bay for £5 (plus another £5 for shipping) and have read a lot of the posts about these watches. The crystal on the one I purchased looks to have quite a few scratches on it. As a newbie, I'm wondering if that can be polished out (and if so, what is the best method?) or should/can it be replaced (and if so, where do I find a replacement crystal?). Thanks!


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Sorry I missed this one - that's why I am only replying now (been rather busy here!). The crystal looks quite good and I am sure it can be salvaged by polishing. Search for some appropriate threads and the info is all there. Good luck and let us see the result.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Space Noodle (Sep 3, 2014)

Thanks for the reply Hartmut. I will do my best and post pics once all cleaned up. First though is getting through the hardest part, waiting for the watch to arrive!


----------



## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

I use Autosol Metal polish on those sort of crystals..


----------



## Space Noodle (Sep 3, 2014)

anzac1957 said:


> I use Autosol Metal polish on those sort of crystals..


Can good results be achieved by polishing by hand or do you use a rotary tool/buffer of some kind? Just by looking at the picture or knowing the watch do you know what type of crystal it is? Acrylic, glass, etc? Thanks in advance.


----------



## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

Space Noodle said:


> Can good results be achieved by polishing by hand or do you use a rotary tool/buffer of some kind? Just by looking at the picture or knowing the watch do you know what type of crystal it is? Acrylic, glass, etc? Thanks in advance.


By hand is sufficient.. circular motion is what I use.. likely acrylic on yours but others more knowledgeable than I may verify..

Look here to see effect..

Vintage IWC - secondhand shop find..

Cheers


----------



## Space Noodle (Sep 3, 2014)

Sound good, thanks. Amazing result on that thread you linked to. I have read some other instructional threads and many use a tool to buff so I was wondering for matter of opinion. Many thanks!


----------

