# Suggestions: High-End Sport Model Watch For Small Wrists



## TJMike

If everything goes to plan I will be picking up a Breguet Classique 5930 this weekend. As such, my attention is turning to my next watch (which will not be purchased for a number of years, but I like having a goal). I would like a high-end sport watch, something like the Breguet Marine or VC Overseas (latest model); a "basic" three-hander. While the Marine is too big for my wrist on a strap, I would like to try it on a bracelet to see if it is a better fit. I am also looking forward to trying on the VC Overseas (although from what I gather it may be too large for my wrist). 

As such, what similar watches are suitable for people like me with small wrists?

Edit: I should add I am not interested in purchasing a Rolex.


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## m0c021

How small are your wrist? 
You want it on bracelet or rubber (not gonna say leather since you said sport model)? 
Price range?

I made a post not too long ago asking for <$15k on rubber and under 40mm. Might be worth a glance through to see all the suggestions other members gave. Below are just some suggestions off the top of my head.


Audemars Piguet Royal Oak
-15450 is the 37mm (If the Breguet Marine is too big at 39mm, this would probably be the only one)
-15300 is the 39mm
-15202 is the 2 hander ultra thin 39mm
-15400 is the 41mm

Patek Phillipe Aquanaut
-5165 is the 38mm
-5167 is the 40mm
-5164 is the dual time 40.5mm (I think that's the diameter)

Piaget Polo S
-42mm on rubber or bracelet

Hublot Classic Fusion
-38mm version would probably fit you well


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## TJMike

Thanks for your suggestions; I will check out your thread. My wrists are 6 1/4 inches on a good day.

I would want the watch most likely on a bracelet and price range at this stage no more than $20,000 (price of the VC Overseas).

I do not like the design of the Aquanaut, Polo S, or Fusion. I was just checking the Royal Oak 37mm (I did not realize AP made a unisex size). When I first saw the Royal Oak I thought the design was absolutely hideous. However, the more photos I have seen of it browsing this website, the more I am warming to it. I will certainly be visiting an AP store in the future.

Once again, thank you.


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## kenkls

Blanpain FF, with NATO strap?


從我的iPhone使用Tapatalk 發送


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## TJMike

kenkls said:


> Blanpain FF, with NATO strap?
> 
> 從我的iPhone使用Tapatalk 發送


I do not like the date at four o'clock or divers. However, thank you for the suggestion.


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## m0c021

I thought the Royal Oak was hideous at first. Then some pictures caught my eyes. Saw it in person and was blown away. 

My wrist is also 6.25" but fairly flat. I think the marine fit me but those lugs did get close to the edge of my limit. 

If you want bracelet, AP and VC are well regarded in that department. With your wrist size, I fear that the overseas is too large. 

Blancpain is releasing a 38.5mm bathyscaphe in blue at Basel I believe. They also have the Lemen which I believe is also smaller. 


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> I thought the Royal Oak was hideous at first. Then some pictures caught my eyes. Saw it in person and was blown away.
> 
> My wrist is also 6.25" but fairly flat. I think the marine fit me but those lugs did get close to the edge of my limit.
> 
> If you want bracelet, AP and VC are well regarded in that department. With your wrist size, I fear that the overseas is too large.
> 
> Blancpain is releasing a 38.5mm bathyscaphe in blue at Basel I believe. They also have the Lemen which I believe is also smaller.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I am in no rush, so I have plenty of time to decide and then rethink my decision 

There is something about a Royal Oak (and congrats on your new piece!). Unfortunately, no AD in my city, but once again no rush.

If I remember correctly the Marine just fit me but it was the absolutely limit. However, the lugs looked way too big and the strap was on the last notch. I am hoping that the bracelet version will integrate the lugs more seamlessly.

I also fear that the Overseas is too large.


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## vkalia

^^^ If you found the Marine to be at the cusp of acceptable size, then the Overseas will certainly feel too big, I agree.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> ^^^ If you found the Marine to be at the cusp of acceptable size, then the Overseas will certainly feel too big, I agree.


Just pile on the misery! Please make sure to do an in-depth review of the Overseas when you buy it to make me feel worse


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## iim7v7im7

I understand "basic three hander" (gotcha) and your wrist size constraint, but "sports watch" means different things to different people. How robust to water does it need to be? What about shock and vibration? Is case marring ruggedness important? What about night time visibility? The typical names such as AP Royal Oak, Breguet Marine, PP Nautilus (or an Aquanaut) and VC Overseas will be of course mentioned. Depending on the above, I might recommend one or these OR NOT. Factory watches by IWC, Omega, Rolex or others might be more appropriate suggestions. If you better define what is important to you, a suggestion might be easier.



TJMike said:


> If everything goes to plan I will be picking up a Breguet Classique 5930 this weekend. As such, my attention is turning to my next watch (which will not be purchased for a number of years, but I like having a goal). I would like a high-end sport watch, something like the Breguet Marine or VC Overseas (latest model); a "basic" three-hander. While the Marine is too big for my wrist on a strap, I would like to try it on a bracelet to see if it is a better fit. I am also looking forward to trying on the VC Overseas (although from what I gather it may be too large for my wrist).
> 
> As such, what similar watches are suitable for people like me with small wrists?
> 
> Edit: I should add I am not interested in purchasing a Rolex.


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## TJMike

Excellent points. I was just using "sports watch" to mean just something in the realm of a Royal Oak, Breguet Marine or VC Overseas. I was uncertain myself what to call such watches. Basically, a general daily wearing watch for someone who spends most of his time at a computer.

I already have an Omega De Ville (bracelet) and a Grand Seiko GMT that are my daily wearers. I am most likely looking for a more high-end version of such watches. Sorry if this is vague, I am just trying to formulate my own thoughts.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I am in no rush, so I have plenty of time to decide and then rethink my decision
> 
> There is something about a Royal Oak (and congrats on your new piece!). Unfortunately, no AD in my city, but once again no rush.
> 
> If I remember correctly the Marine just fit me but it was the absolutely limit. However, the lugs looked way too big and the strap was on the last notch. I am hoping that the bracelet version will integrate the lugs more seamlessly.
> 
> I also fear that the Overseas is too large.


Just happen to have a picture of the Marine on a bracelet.  The lugs definitely blend in better with the bracelet.

I believe, if you're interested in pre-owned, that there is an earlier Royal Oak that was 35mm.










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## iim7v7im7

TJMike said:


> Excellent points. I was just using "sports watch" to mean just something in the realm of a Royal Oak, Breguet Marine or VC Overseas. I was uncertain myself what to call such watches. Basically, a general daily wearing watch for someone who spends most of his time at a computer.
> 
> I already have an Omega De Ville (bracelet) and a Grand Seiko GMT that are my daily wearers. I am most likely looking for a more high-end version of such watches. Sorry if this is vague, I am just trying to formulate my own thoughts.


What does "more high-end" mean to you in a sports watch? Your reference is an APRO, so why not just buy an AP 15450 or 15202 (more of a dress watch in my opinion), a Breguet 5817 (on rubber, not bracelet) or perhaps a PP 5710 or 5167? I suspect the VC Overseas will wear larger. You also might take a look at the new 38 mm ceramic BP Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe as well (probably not available until later this year.).

BTW, is a hacking movement important to you?


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## TJMike

iim7v7im7 said:


> What does "more high-end" mean to you in a sports watch? Your reference is an APRO, so why not just buy an AP 15450 or 15202 (more of a dress watch in my opinion), a Breguet 5817 (on rubber, not bracelet) or perhaps a PP 5710 or 5167? I suspect the VC Overseas will wear larger. You also might take a look at the new 38 mm ceramic BP Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe as well (probably not available until later this year.).
> 
> BTW, is a hacking movement important to you?


Thanks for the suggestions. I am using high-end as it is meant on this particular sub-forum. As to what to buy, I am a long way from purchasing; I was just looking for suggestions on what is out there and things I have overlooked (such as the Royal Oak comes in a 37mm size). I would love to by a Breguet Marine 5817, but on rubber it is too large on my wrist.

A hacking movement is not important to me.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Just happen to have a picture of the Marine on a bracelet.  The lugs definitely blend in better with the bracelet.
> 
> I believe, if you're interested in pre-owned, that there is an earlier Royal Oak that was 35mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I only by new. And damn, the lugs do blend in a lot better on a bracelet! Thanks for the photo of it you just happened to have


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## m0c021

Maybe find a new grey market if you want the breguet marine. The resale drops by half out the door. Also that picture is the old bracelet. They changed it a while ago. 


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> Maybe find a new grey market if you want the breguet marine. The resale drops by half out the door. Also that picture is the old bracelet. They changed it a while ago.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I have seen the new bracelet on Breguet's website.

I never sell my watches, so if I buy one it is for life.


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## mlcor

m0c021 said:


> Maybe find a new grey market if you want the breguet marine. The resale drops by half out the door. Also that picture is the old bracelet. They changed it a while ago.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Correct. The new one is more generic looking (IMO), but is supposed to be sturdier, although I've never had any issues with mine, and prefer the older design.


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## TJMike

The new bracelet. Oh how I love the dial.


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## tony20009

TJMike said:


> If everything goes to plan I will be *picking up a Breguet Classique 5930 this weekend*. As such, my *attention is turning to my next **watch* ....


Oh, lord. One fancy watch hasn't even arrived and you're already thinking about the next. The "bug" bit you bad, didn't it? LOL

All the best.


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## TJMike

Hahahaha. That it has. Of course the next watch will be a few years away at least. But it is nice to have a goal.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Just pile on the misery! Please make sure to do an in-depth review of the Overseas when you buy it to make me feel worse


Heh, every time i narrow down on one, my missus looks to me and goes "that looks boring compared to the AP". In some ways, the biggest appeal of the Overseas is the strap change - between the Breguet and the GO, I really dont NEED the Overseas. And this crack always sends the pendulum the other way....


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Heh, every time i narrow down on one, my missus looks to me and goes "that looks boring compared to the AP". In some ways, the biggest appeal of the Overseas is the strap change - between the Breguet and the GO, I really dont NEED the Overseas. And this crack always sends the pendulum the other way....


The strap change aside, there is nothing special about the Overseas, but it is special. It stays in one's mind. Moreover, you do not need another watch, but...


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## vkalia

TJMike;38957426[B said:


> ]The strap change aside, there is nothing special about the Overseas, but it is special. It stays in one's mind. [/B]Moreover, you do not need another watch, but...


This. Exactly this.

While i do not regret my choice of the RO over the Overseas, i knew as soon as i left the dealer with the RO on my wrist that i would be tempted to come back for the Overseas.

I only need 2-3 more watches: a Lange, an Overseas and maybe a Blancpain. Then i am done. Truly.


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## TJMike

I will try one on this weekend and I am sure I will try to convince myself it is not too large for my wrist  Too tell you the truth, even if it is slightly large I may well still purchase it down the line. While I want a dress watch to be a perfect fit, I do not mind if something like the Overseas wears large.


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## vkalia

^^^ Makes sense. Same reason I picked the RO 15400 over the Aquanaut and the 15202: the last two seemed a little too dainty and dressy. The 15400 has good wrist presence on my 6.75" wrist without being excessively large. 

I keep coming back to the Overseas as well. Although the Bulgari Octo Retrograde just caught my eye earlier today. 


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> ^^^ Makes sense. Same reason I picked the RO 15400 over the Aquanaut and the 15202: the last two seemed a little too dainty and dressy. The 15400 has good wrist presence on my 6.75" wrist without being excessively large.
> 
> I keep coming back to the Overseas as well. Although the Bulgari Octo Retrograde just caught my eye earlier today.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Something always catches your eye!


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> ^^^ Makes sense. Same reason I picked the RO 15400 over the Aquanaut and the 15202: the last two seemed a little too dainty and dressy. The 15400 has good wrist presence on my 6.75" wrist without being excessively large.
> 
> I keep coming back to the Overseas as well. Although the Bulgari Octo Retrograde just caught my eye earlier today.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I much prefer the Overseas to the Bulgari. The latter has an interesting design that I could see one getting sick of.


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## vkalia

The watch in question:








Yeah, you are right - the fact that it is an unusual design always runs the risk that one might get bored with it. And even though i am getting a pretty healthy discount off MRP, it is still too tidy an amount to spend on a novelty watch (atleast for me).

But damn - look at it. That design is awesome. This would actually replace the Cartier in my collection, if i get it. And i really am very tempted...

But sorry, i am starting to take your thread OT and my apologies for that.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> The watch in question:
> View attachment 10960818
> 
> 
> Yeah, you are right - the fact that it is an unusual design always runs the risk that one might get bored with it. And even though i am getting a pretty healthy discount off MRP, it is still too tidy an amount to spend on a novelty watch (atleast for me).
> 
> But damn - look at it. That design is awesome. This would actually replace the Cartier in my collection, if i get it. And i really am very tempted...
> 
> But sorry, i am starting to take your thread OT and my apologies for that.


I much prefer your Cartier. Then again, it is your wrist and your money. Although if it was me I would wait at least a week before pulling the trigger.


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## vkalia

Oh, i have atleast a month-long cooling off period and i need my watch budget to replenish, which may take time (my bikes and camera gear both need upgrades). Which is good, really - of my candidates, the only one that makes my heart beat fast is the new Lange 1815 Annual Calendar, and pricing info for that will only be available in May. I also have ordered a rubber strap for my Breguet, and that may scratch the Overseas itch. 

It's nice to plan and dream, though. And you are right - the Bulgari may not survive the cooling off period - its too much of a novelty for a watch that is still going to be 5 figures after discount.


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## TJMike

My Overseas itch is getting worse; so looking forward to trying one one. If it fits I am toying with the idea of getting it now and a dress watch down the line. However, considering I want a Breguet and they are seemingly getting rid of their smaller sizes, I am getting a very good deal from the AD, and as I can only afford one luxury watch in the foreseeable future I want it to be a dress watch, the Breguet 5930 is still a front-runner. Not helping matters was the damn courier damaging the package the 5930 was in (as well as eight other watches). The watch will now not arrive until next week at the earliest. It gives me more time to re-question my decision.


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## vkalia

I really think a Breguet would be a better option for you. Even at 39mm with bigger lugs, i think it will wear better than an Overseas. And even the Breguet sports watches are classy enough to fit all but the most rigorous definition of dress watch.

Is buying used an option? They are great value used.


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## TJMike

The only thing I buy used are old books.

You may well be right about the Breguet. If the store can not get in the 5930, I will see if they can get a Marine on a bracelet. On the rubber it fit on the last notch; it ruined the aesthetics.

As for the Overseas, it does not look to much bigger than my GS (see attached). The GS has a 40mm dial, 13mm thick, and 46mm lug to lug. Of course I will only know about how well the Overseas will fit when I try it on.


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## TJMike

A better shot of the GS (and my old slippers).


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> A better shot of the GS (and my old slippers).


I would bet that the Overseas will fit better than your GS. I have a Snowflake, and while it fits just fine on me, it definitely feels considerably thicker than the VC, which of course it is. My Marine, despite being 11.85mm thick, seems thinner than the VC (which is actually only 11mm) due to the way lugs, bracelet and bezel work together. This is why you always have to try things on.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> I would bet that the Overseas will fit better than your GS. I have a Snowflake, and while it fits just fine on me, it definitely feels considerably thicker than the VC, which of course it is. My Marine, despite being 11.85mm thick, seems thinner than the VC (which is actually only 11mm) due to the way lugs, bracelet and bezel work together. This is why you always have to try things on.


Right you are. I will be going to the VC Boutique on Saturday. I'm looking forward to trying on the Overseas! As things stand now, I will buy the Breguet Classique 5930. And for the "sports watch" it will be between the Overseas, the Marine (with bracelet) and the AP Royal Oak 37mm. Of course I have yet to try on any of the "sports watches" so things can certainly and most likely will change.

Congrats on the Snowflake; a great watch. I love my GS, but it certainly is on the thick side.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Right you are. I will be going to the VC Boutique on Saturday. I'm looking forward to trying on the Overseas! As things stand now, I will buy the Breguet Classique 5930. And for the "sports watch" it will be between the Overseas, the Marine (with bracelet) and the AP Royal Oak 37mm. Of course I have yet to try on any of the "sports watches" so things can certainly and most likely will change.
> 
> Congrats on the Snowflake; a great watch. I love my GS, but it certainly is on the thick side.


Thanks. I'll be interested to hear your impressions.

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## Perazzi-man

I went to my AD last fall , ready to buy an AP 15400. Saw the new Overseas (the 1st Gen 3 they had gotten) and bought it instead. With the leather band (which I finally figured out) it's a really nice dress watch and w/ the metal bracelet a great sport watch. Take a look--a hard look.


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## Amigos

I own own a Breguet Marine/SS/rubber strap..39mm The only thing that knocks it out of the "dressy" role is the rubber strap.

another poster, Spangles? Put his on leather and it looks " suitable for dressy" to me.

I think you you mentioned that the date bothered you on the new 37 Blancpain FF but i think that's a really handsome watch in a size that will fit you well.

l



vkalia said:


> I really think a Breguet would be a better option for you. Even at 39mm with bigger lugs, i think it will wear better than an Overseas. And even the Breguet sports watches are classy enough to fit all but the most rigorous definition of dress watch.
> 
> Is buying used an option? They are great value used.


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## TJMike

Amigos said:


> I own own a Breguet Marine/SS/rubber strap..39mm The only thing that knocks it out of the "dressy" role is the rubber strap.
> 
> another poster, Spangles? Put his on leather and it looks " suitable for dressy" to me.
> 
> I think you you mentioned that the date bothered you on the new 37 Blancpain FF but i think that's a really handsome watch in a size that will fit you well.
> 
> l


Actually I am not a fan of the Blancpain FF in the slightest; it does not work for me.

If I get the Marine it would be on the bracelet. I like the strap, but it does not work on my wrist. I think I would have the same problem with a leather strap.


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## TJMike

Perazzi-man said:


> I went to my AD last fall , ready to buy an AP 15400. Saw the new Overseas (the 1st Gen 3 they had gotten) and bought it instead. With the leather band (which I finally figured out) it's a really nice dress watch and w/ the metal bracelet a great sport watch. Take a look--a hard look.


I will indeed be taking a long hard look  Even if it is not for me, I still really enjoy trying on such watches.


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## TJMike

I tried on the Overseas today. The watch completely blew me away. It was so damn breathtaking. And to cap it off, it fit like a charm. I love the watch so much that I am buying it. There will be no Breguet dress watch for me for the foreseeable future. Indeed, there will be no other watch for the foreseeable future. The Overseas completes my collection.

Some photos (edit: no idea why one photo rotated sideways and they are so damn big):


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## vkalia

That looks damn good. Did you pick it up yet?

And every damn wrist shot I see of the Overseas is pushing me towards it. *sigh*


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> That looks damn good. Did you pick it up yet?
> 
> And every damn wrist shot I see of the Overseas is pushing me towards it. *sigh*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I pick it up next Saturday; I deliberately left my card at home. Seriously, the photos do not do the watch an ounce of justice. The dial is mesmerizing. I went in thinking that the watch is good. When I left my heart was racing. All thoughts of buying another watch were gone. I had to have the Overseas. All hyperbole aside, it is the watch the completes my collection.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I tried on the Overseas today. The watch completely blew me away. It was so damn breathtaking. And to cap it off, it fit like a charm. I love the watch so much that I am buying it. There will be no Breguet dress watch for me for the foreseeable future. Indeed, there will be no other watch for the foreseeable future. The Overseas completes my collection.
> 
> Some photos (edit: no idea why one photo rotated sideways and they are so damn big):
> View attachment 10990498
> View attachment 10990530


Enabling mission accomplished. 

It doesn't look too big for you at all, looks great (although obviously I'm biased). Congrats, this one is versatile, comfortable, and beautiful.

Don't be afraid to try the other straps, they really change the watch's character. The rubber strap is very comfortable and dresses it down a lot. I haven't used the leather because I have enough dress watches, but with that one on, it will dress up to the hilt.

Enjoy!

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## vkalia

Congrats!! Always a nice feeling when you find The Watch.

And that's amazing willpower. I'd be in the shop doing a wire transfer just so i could walk out with the watch, rather than wait a week.


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## PJ S

Congrats Mike on finding something that really has captured your heart - but before committing to it just yet, see if you can view the previous gen model (47040), unless the quick strap change mechanism is an absolutely must-have feature.
Even if you like the display back to view the rotor and various elements of finishing, how often will (do) you bother with it (on your other watches)?
For me, the 47040 is a better looking watch, even with the date display at the 4:30 position, and with a couple of decent screwdrivers, you can swap straps 'til your heart's content.
I prefer the bezel design more, and the raised relief on the case back is a novel departure from the ubiquitous display back, which is a novelty during the honeymoon period of a new purchase, but then rapidly declines to being given a second's thought - a case of familiarity breeding contempt.

My favourite 47040 - the Deep Stream, with its finely textured titanium bezel offering a nice contrast than the typical (boring?) polished steel type.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Congrats!! Always a nice feeling when you find The Watch.
> 
> And that's amazing willpower. I'd be in the shop doing a wire transfer just so i could walk out with the watch, rather than wait a week.


Thanks. I was tempted to go home and rush back to the shop. However, as this will be the most money I have spent outside of purchasing a house I want a cooling off period just in case.


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## TJMike

PJ S said:


> Congrats Mike on finding something that really has captured your heart - but before committing to it just yet, see if you can view the previous gen model (47040), unless the quick strap change mechanism is an absolutely must-have feature.
> Even if you like the display back to view the rotor and various elements of finishing, how often will (do) you bother with it (on your other watches)?
> For me, the 47040 is a better looking watch, even with the date display at the 4:30 position, and with a couple of decent screwdrivers, you can swap straps 'til your heart's content.
> I prefer the bezel design more, and the raised relief on the case back is a novel departure from the ubiquitous display back, which is a novelty during the honeymoon period of a new purchase, but then rapidly declines to being given a second's thought - a case of familiarity breeding contempt.
> 
> My favourite 47040 - the Deep Stream, with its finely textured titanium bezel offering a nice contrast than the typical (boring?) polished steel type.


Thanks for the congrats and your post; I appreciate it.

The 4070 is a great watch. However, I prefer the current model. I really do not like the date at the 4.20 position; I could never get past that. My Grand Seiko has a display back; I look at it at least once every day that I am wearing the watch. The strap-change feature is not a must have but an added bonus. I could see myself swapping the bracelet for the leather strap on more formal occasions.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Enabling mission accomplished.
> 
> It doesn't look too big for you at all, looks great (although obviously I'm biased). Congrats, this one is versatile, comfortable, and beautiful.
> 
> Don't be afraid to try the other straps, they really change the watch's character. The rubber strap is very comfortable and dresses it down a lot. I haven't used the leather because I have enough dress watches, but with that one on, it will dress up to the hilt.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hahahahha. Thanks! You were right; the Overseas fits better than my Grand Seiko. Before I tried it on I was looking at it and was blown away. I was still expecting it to be too big and when it was not I was ecstatic.

I look forward to changing the straps. As I do not have a watch with a leather strap (or on rubber), that it comes with three straps is an added bonus.

Vacheron Constantin was the first high-end watch store I ever visited (tried on the Patrimony back in 2014). I loved the watches, but was thinking there is no way I would ever have one. And it is a wonderful feeling to know I will be purchasing one next week.


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## m0c021

So it looks like I will be going to local AD to try on the overseas today then...


Update: It was sold yesterday, couldn't see it in person. Saw the aquanaut for the third time now and did not like it at all. Funny thing is it has been my grail for a long time because I love how it looks in pictures. Anyways, glad I didn't pick one up when I had the chance to recently. Still waiting to see the overseas now. 

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## adnjoo

Here are my recommendations for HE-sports model for smaller wrists <7"

1. VC Overseas 42042 37mm (can be had for a song in preowned market)








2. AP Royal Oak 14790st 37mm








3. FP Journe Octa Sport









4. 14060m on rubber strap (everest)








For me I would go for Sub 14060m. It's the most versatile watch! 
Comfortable on rubber strap, quite thin, sturdy, robust movement (it's Rolex), fuss-free, everything you need and nothing you don't, has the Secret Agent pedigree, classic styling, investment piece (you'll never lose your money on this).

What more can you want from a watch? OK I might need to get one now lol..


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## PJ S

TJMike said:


> Thanks for the congrats and your post; I appreciate it.
> 
> The 4070 is a great watch. However, I prefer the current model. I really do not like the date at the 4.20 position; I could never get past that. My Grand Seiko has a display back; I look at it at least once every day that I am wearing the watch. The strap-change feature is not a must have but an added bonus. I could see myself swapping the bracelet for the leather strap on more formal occasions.


Fair enough, but at least make sure you're getting it for circa 25% off the RRP - any less than that, and you're overpaying.


----------



## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> So it looks like I will be going to local AD to try on the overseas today then...
> 
> Update: It was sold yesterday, couldn't see it in person. Saw the aquanaut for the third time now and did not like it at all. Funny thing is it has been my grail for a long time because I love how it looks in pictures. Anyways, glad I didn't pick one up when I had the chance to recently. Still waiting to see the overseas now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I know your pain. The VC Boutique called me today and said that they just sold the last Overseas they had in stock. They will call me tomorrow to let me know when they will get in back in stock.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I know your pain. The VC Boutique called me today and said that they just sold the last Overseas they had in stock. They will call me tomorrow to let me know when they will get in back in stock.


Hopefully won't be too long. The first one I bought arrived with a scratch on the crystal (I think the AD did it while sizing the bracelet); it only took two weeks for the replacement to get to me.


----------



## vkalia

All this talk of the Overseas, and i am struggling to wait till May for pricing/availability of the Lange Annual Calendar. I may jump on it next weekend when i am in KL: my preferred AD has one in stock....


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## mjackson

I personally thing the Rolex yachtmaster, GMT II, and Daytona is hard to beat and they look perfectly sized for small wrists. I think the squared octagon shape of the audemar doesn't look good


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Hopefully won't be too long. The first one I bought arrived with a scratch on the crystal (I think the AD did it while sizing the bracelet); it only took two weeks for the replacement to get to me.


I am hoping they can get one in this week (I like to dream ) That must have been annoying to get your watch and see it came with a "lovely" scratch!


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> All this talk of the Overseas, and i am struggling to wait till May for pricing/availability of the Lange Annual Calendar. I may jump on it next weekend when i am in KL: my preferred AD has one in stock....


Why not get both? You have two empty slots in your Core Collection 

The Lange Annual Calendar will not be cheap; has there been any hints on the price?


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I am hoping they can get one in this week (I like to dream ) That must have been annoying to get your watch and see it came with a "lovely" scratch!


Yeah, not so much. 

OTOH, the dealer was mortified (or at least feigned it well), and took care of it promptly and with no hesitation.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

TJMike said:


> I know your pain. The VC Boutique called me today and said that they just sold the last Overseas they had in stock. They will call me tomorrow to let me know when they will get in back in stock.


Well the VC Boutique just called. There is not another Overseas with the blue dial in the entire country! They will have to order me one from Switzerland; it will take 1-2 months  I have asked for a bigger discount as compensation. Waiting to hear back from them. Sigh...


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Why not get both? You have two empty slots in your Core Collection
> 
> The Lange Annual Calendar will not be cheap; has there been any hints on the price?


Heh, the Lange (or *a* Lange, at any rate) will happen. The biggest holdup - my lifestyle doesnt lend itself to me wearing gold dressy watches on a regular basis, so sinking that kind of money on something i wont wear as often doesnt make sense.

The estimated MRP of the Lange was around 33k euros, as per what i read online. Based on how European MRP translates to prices in Asia, and the expected discounts I can get from my AD, I think this comes in at about the edge of my "willingness to pay for a shiny bauble" range.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Well the VC Boutique just called. There is not another Overseas with the blue dial in the entire country! They will have to order me one from Switzerland; it will take 1-2 months  I have asked for a bigger discount as compensation. Waiting to hear back from them. Sigh...


Ouch! That seriously hurts.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Ouch! That seriously hurts.


It does suck, especially as it seems you will get an Overseas before me


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Heh, the Lange (or *a* Lange, at any rate) will happen. The biggest holdup - my lifestyle doesnt lend itself to me wearing gold dressy watches on a regular basis, so sinking that kind of money on something i wont wear as often doesnt make sense.
> 
> The estimated MRP of the Lange was around 33k euros, as per what i read online. Based on how European MRP translates to prices in Asia, and the expected discounts I can get from my AD, I think this comes in at about the edge of my "willingness to pay for a shiny bauble" range.


I always had the same holdup in the back of my mind; how often would I wear a gold dress watch?

33k Euros is ouch, even for a beautiful watch as the Lange. I do wonder how much discount you could get on it, especially as it will be new; the Lange AD/boutique here offer only a very, very low discount (5%). At least the Lange discount is better than the one offered at the Patek boutique; they offer no discounts.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Well the VC Boutique just called. There is not another Overseas with the blue dial in the entire country! They will have to order me one from Switzerland; it will take 1-2 months  I have asked for a bigger discount as compensation. Waiting to hear back from them. Sigh...


That really sucks. I wonder, though...you're talking to the boutique, not an AD? I wonder if it wouldn't be worth a quick call around to some ADs to see if any have one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> That really sucks. I wonder, though...you're talking to the boutique, not an AD? I wonder if it wouldn't be worth a quick call around to some ADs to see if any have one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is not looking good for a bigger discount as they said that the person who bought the last one got a less discount than they are giving me (don't necessarily believe them); we will see as the salesperson said she will talk to her manager.

A good idea on the AD. However, almost all luxury watch stores are located in malls and the only way you can buy from such stores in China is paying at the mall where the store is located, not the actual store. So I could only go to a VC AD close by and unfortunately there are none close by, only boutiques. I could call different ADs to see if they are a stand-alone store not in a mall, but I prefer to see the watch I am buying in person and not just receive it in the mail.

And before anyone says why don't I fly to HK etc I do not have the time to do so. Even if I did, there is a tax on such watches of around 60% once I re-enter the country. Of course I could not declare it and hope I do not get searched, but if I did get caught there is a penalty of 5x the tax. Moreover, my home is in China, I do not just work here. As such if I did get caught that would not look good next time I went to get my visa renewed.

I will just wait the 1-2 months.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> It is not looking good for a bigger discount as they said that the person who bought the last one got a less discount than they are giving me (don't necessarily believe them); we will see as the salesperson said she will talk to her manager.
> 
> A good idea on the AD. However, almost all luxury watch stores are located in malls and the only way you can buy from such stores in China is paying at the mall where the store is located, not the actual store. So I could only go to a VC AD close by and unfortunately there are none close by, only boutiques. I could call different ADs to see if they are a stand-alone store not in a mall, but I prefer to see the watch I am buying in person and not just receive it in the mail.
> 
> And before anyone says why don't I fly to HK etc I do not have the time to do so. Even if I did, there is a tax on such watches of around 60% once I re-enter the country. Of course I could not declare it and hope I do not get searched, but if I did get caught there is a penalty of 5x the tax. Moreover, my home is in China, I do not just work here. As such if I did get caught that would not look good next time I went to get my visa renewed.
> 
> I will just wait the 1-2 months.


Bummer; didn't realize you were in China, that makes it much more difficult. Oh well, patience will be rewarded.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> It does suck, especially as it seems you will get an Overseas before me


The postal service in Malaysia sucks - or so my Malaysian friends tell me - otherwise, I'd have offered to help you buy the Overseas that my dealer currently has in stock in KL.

Re the Lange - well, Malaysian MRPs are a bit lower than US/European ones, and on top of that the dealer offered me 15% off to start with, plus 4.8% GST refund. So I am hoping it would clock in at under $25k all said and done.

Note that this is a different place from my usual AD - I didnt have any relationship with them at the time. I have bought the RO from them since, so i am hoping they can knock off a couple of points more.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> The postal service in Malaysia sucks - or so my Malaysian friends tell me - otherwise, I'd have offered to help you buy the Overseas that my dealer currently has in stock in KL.
> 
> Re the Lange - well, Malaysian MRPs are a bit lower than US/European ones, and on top of that the dealer offered me 15% off to start with, plus 4.8% GST refund. So I am hoping it would clock in at under $25k all said and done.
> 
> Note that this is a different place from my usual AD - I didnt have any relationship with them at the time. I have bought the RO from them since, so i am hoping they can knock off a couple of points more.


The postal service sucks here also, not to mention that customs would hold-up the package and I would have to pay a 60% tax on the watch. Nevertheless, thanks for the thought.

That is a decent discount on the Lange; well done. So will the Overseas and the Lange complete your collection; given up on the Patek?


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> That is a decent discount on the Lange; well done. So will the Overseas and the Lange complete your collection; given up on the Patek?


3, maybe: VC, the Lange and possibly either a Panerai 682 or a FF Bathyscaphe (although i may flip the Zenith to make room for this one).

The Lange may be my last buy: until November last year, I had set a limit of $10k or so per watch, and I still need to convince myself that spending $25k on a watch makes sense. So even if i get it, that will be IT. Probably timing it for when i exit the island and move to a place where i wear shoes and trousers (as opposed to shorts) regularly again: no point getting such a watch with only limited opportunities to wear it daily.

And yeah, given up on the Patek. The only one of their watches that really sings to me was the Nautilus, and i really couldnt be ar$ed with this whole "work hard to show you deserve one" nonsense. I was reading an interview with Stern where he proudly said how he encouraged the dealers in Europe to cater to their home base and not to sell to 'tourists from Asia': the arrogance of that attitude has turned me off the brand. Lastly, I've realized that if i ignore external buzz about brands, Lange is the one that excites *me* the most: the Zeitwerk, the Terra Luna, the Richard Lange, the Datograph. And the Lange Annual Calendar as well.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> 3, maybe: VC, the Lange and possibly either a Panerai 682 or a FF Bathyscaphe (although i may flip the Zenith to make room for this one).
> 
> The Lange may be my last buy: until November last year, I had set a limit of $10k or so per watch, and I still need to convince myself that spending $25k on a watch makes sense. So even if i get it, that will be IT. Probably timing it for when i exit the island and move to a place where i wear shoes and trousers (as opposed to shorts) regularly again: no point getting such a watch with only limited opportunities to wear it daily.
> 
> And yeah, given up on the Patek. The only one of their watches that really sings to me was the Nautilus, and i really couldnt be ar$ed with this whole "work hard to show you deserve one" nonsense. I was reading an interview with Stern where he proudly said how he encouraged the dealers in Europe to cater to their home base and not to sell to 'tourists from Asia': the arrogance of that attitude has turned me off the brand. Lastly, I've realized that if i ignore external buzz about brands, Lange is the one that excites *me* the most: the Zeitwerk, the Terra Luna, the Richard Lange, the Datograph. And the Lange Annual Calendar as well.


I am also aiming for three more; the Overseas (Duh), hopefully the Marine (if it fits me much better on a bracelet), and the final slot is up for grabs. It will not be a Patek; I'm also not a fan of the work for it ******** and not selling to Asian tourists mantra.

A Lange is certainly a possibility, as is a JLC. In that regard how is the JLC Master Geographic?

P.S. I was thinking today where did I first hear about the Overseas. While I am not 100% certain, I believe I first read about it on your "Completing the collection" (the jokes write themselves) post. So thank you and damn you!


----------



## TJMike

TJMike said:


> Well the VC Boutique just called. There is not another Overseas with the blue dial in the entire country! They will have to order me one from Switzerland; it will take 1-2 months  I have asked for a bigger discount as compensation. Waiting to hear back from them. Sigh...


I ordered the watch today; no increased discount, but I received 1% of the purchase price as mall credit. And I did not have to pay a deposit. Now the waiting begins...


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## devlred

Well done, facing all these troubles it will double your enjoynment when you receive the watch. 

Crossing fingers that everything will go smooth now and you will get it the soonest possible, let us know when you have it in you hands.


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## TJMike

devlred said:


> Well done, facing all these troubles it will double your enjoynment when you receive the watch.
> 
> Crossing fingers that everything will go smooth now and you will get it the soonest possible, let us know when you have it in you hands.


Thanks. Things go smoothly; ha ha.

If the courier did not damage the package the watch was in I would have bought a Breguet Classique 5930. The delay led me to try the Overseas on in the meantime. Out went the Breguet. I am going to avoid watch stores until the Overseas arrives. Indeed, I am probably already spending too much time looking at Lange watches online


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## schrop

In December for my birthday watch I was seriously tempted away from the Overseas by a Lange (but not the one you guys are talking about, the Saxonia Boutique edition).

At the end of this thread though is an interesting discussion; how many more watches to complete? Of what kinds? How will you know?


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## TJMike

schrop said:


> In December for my birthday watch I was seriously tempted away from the Overseas by a Lange (but not the one you guys are talking about, the Saxonia Boutique edition).
> 
> At the end of this thread though is an interesting discussion; how many more watches to complete? Of what kinds? How will you know?


I am tempted by many different Lange's. Indeed I was close to buying a Saxonia Thin 37mm.

I mentioned my aim above; "I am also aiming for three more; the Overseas (Duh), hopefully the Marine (if it fits me much better on a bracelet), and the final slot is up for grabs." I would like a Breguet as their dials are so damn great and the more I look at Lange's online it is likely that I will get one down the line. As for why three more? I am currently in my mid-40s and unless a huge financial windfall comes my way I would only feel comfortable buying another high-end piece in about 5-10 years, and then another 5-10 years after that. So that could take me to my mid-60s and retirement. And then I doubt I would be buying any more high-end watches. Of course I could buy many more less expensive watches, but I have always preferred quality over quantity.

Thus my collection would be an Omega De Ville (my first "luxury watch" and still love) a Grand Seiko GMT (my first proper watch was a Seiko Tank homage; once I found out about Grand Seiko I wanted one. A great day it was when I purchased a GS), a VC Overseas (VC was the first high-end watch store I ever went; that I will own a VC soon make me incredibly happy) and two watches to-be-decided. The latter two will be by brands I do not currently own.

What about yourself; how many watches left for you?


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I am tempted by many different Lange's. Indeed I was close to buying a Saxonia Thin 37mm.
> 
> I mentioned my aim above; "I am also aiming for three more; the Overseas (Duh), hopefully the Marine (if it fits me much better on a bracelet), and the final slot is up for grabs." I would like a Breguet as their dials are so damn great and the more I look at Lange's online it is likely that I will get one down the line. As for why three more? I am currently in my mid-40s and unless a huge financial windfall comes my way I would only feel comfortable buying another high-end piece in about 5-10 years, and then another 5-10 years after that. So that could take me to my mid-60s and retirement. And then I doubt I would be buying any more high-end watches. Of course I could buy many more less expensive watches, but I have always preferred quality over quantity.
> 
> Thus my collection would be an Omega De Ville (my first "luxury watch" and still love) a Grand Seiko GMT (my first proper watch was a Seiko Tank homage; once I found out about Grand Seiko I wanted one. A great day it was when I purchased a GS), a VC Overseas (VC was the first high-end watch store I ever went; that I will own a VC soon make me incredibly happy) and two watches to-be-decided. The latter two will be by brands I do not currently own.
> 
> What about yourself; how many watches left for you?


Well, for me, I am quite a bit older (although not retired yet), and have a very diverse collection, including less expensive models and higher end. I like quality and variety. 

I am close to getting an APRO, which would be my second (and last) AP. I'm interested in also getting a nice skeleton watch, but most of the ones I like are far more expensive than I'm willing to spend on one watch. There might be one or two others, and then that would be it. Any more and I'd be at the point where watches I really like would only get worn once every month...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> A Lange is certainly a possibility, as is a JLC. In that regard how is the JLC Master Geographic?
> 
> P.S. I was thinking today where did I first hear about the Overseas. While I am not 100% certain, I believe I first read about it on your "Completing the collection" (the jokes write themselves) post. So thank you and damn you!


Haha, that's awesome. I pushed you to the Overseas and you pushed me right back to it as well. I think the secret to perpetual motion can be found somewhere here. 

I am very fond of that JLC. For the longest time, I was sure I wanted a Reverso. Still love them - just not on my wrist, given my lifestyle. The JLC dresses down a bit more - I have it on a dark blue strap now and it worked well with shorts, polo and sandals. And obviously it dresses up better too.

And their hybrid of GMT / worldtimer is quite useful for times when you need to follow a different time zone for a while.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

schrop said:


> At the end of this thread though is an interesting discussion; how many more watches to complete? Of what kinds? How will you know?


I actually do think I will reach an end soon - my earlier post about "Completing the collection" notwithstanding.

I find I am very satisfied with most of my watches now and the number of watches I want to have is diminishing.

I sorta want an iconic diver - for obvious reasons, given what I do. This one is a toss up between a Panerai and a Bathyscaphe, although I am still undecided about whether or not I'll wear a HE diver enough.

I want a high end sports watch that actually can be worn everywhere. The Overseas.

And I want a statement watch. The Lange. This may wait till more appropriate for my lifestyle.

"Completion" will be, to me, a mix that fits all my various use cases, has sufficient variety to interest me and covers the brands/histories/models/complications that appeal to me. I thought I had it with the 8 I have now but there are a couple of gaps that I want to address.

Complete doesn't imply unchanging - I reserve the right to simplify and reduce the collection size as my tastes crystallise further. But the urge to buy more will be gone.

I went through that with camera gear, bikes and pens. So I know I'll get there with watches too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

When I was in the VC boutique today my wife mentioned to the sales person that I was very close to buying a Breguet (the shops are located in the same mall). Well lo-and-behold, a little while ago the Breguet sales person calls my wife and tells her "I hear your husband now want to buy a VC Overseas. However, the Classique 5930 has just arrived in store if he wants to come and take a look. We could talk about a further discount."

It is going to be a long two months!


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Haha, that's awesome. I pushed you to the Overseas and you pushed me right back to it as well. I think the secret to perpetual motion can be found somewhere here.
> 
> I am very fond of that JLC. For the longest time, I was sure I wanted a Reverso. Still love them - just not on my wrist, given my lifestyle. The JLC dresses down a bit more - I have it on a dark blue strap now and it worked well with shorts, polo and sandals. And obviously it dresses up better too.
> 
> And their hybrid of GMT / worldtimer is quite useful for times when you need to follow a different time zone for a while.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for your thoughts on your JLC. There is something about JLC that also draws me in. I really like the Reverso and MUT Moon in photos, but when I see them in person I feel nothing. The Master Geographic and Perpetual Calendar would be my choices, but when it comes down to it I would rather a Breguet and Lange over them.

Speaking about Lange, just like the Overseas, the first time I read about the 1815 Annual Calendar was from you. Now I can't stop reading about it; that is one beautiful watch. Is history is repeating itself, the first time was a tragedy (to my bank account), the second time a farce!


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## Solomente

You guys are full of it when you are talking about "completion," and I mean that as a friendly jab from a fellow addict. Especially for someone like Vkalia who buys one incredible watch after another and then is back at the store within a week or two planning out (or buying) the next one. Let's face it, the burning desire is 90% of this game. Saying you're done with watch collecting is like saying you'll stop having sex because you finally slept with the woman of your dreams.


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## schrop

Funny ending of this thread.
Well, I want to get to 7 (from 9 in signature) by selling or even giving away my Montblanc and my vintage Glashutte. 
But 8 is a really good number for me.

1) The VC is so perfect as a sports watch, do I really need another (like an AP, just to match my wife's)? 
2) I'd like a white enamel dial, and I love Lang and Heyne, and I'd be one of the few guys to have two of them (by the way, announcement of a new L & H caliber and watch [VIII] is coming March 10)
3) I love Lange.
4) I like small makers (AHCI), so maybe the Habring Erwin, the Pascal Coyon chronometer, Paul Gerber.

The thing is with only a couple of missteps I really made good choices. My lower priced watches I really love, like my Seiko and (relatively lower) my Nomos. So I don't want to make a mistake.

Maybe I don't need another watch. Instead get a new BMW? 

I'M CONFLICTED!


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## mlcor

schrop said:


> Maybe I don't need another watch. Instead get a new BMW?
> 
> I'M CONFLICTED!


You need both. Conflict solved. ;-)


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## vkalia

Solomente said:


> You guys are full of it when you are talking about "completion," and I mean that as a friendly jab from a fellow addict. Especially for someone like Vkalia who buys one incredible watch after another and then is back at the store within a week or two planning out (or buying) the next one. Let's face it, the burning desire is 90% of this game. Saying you're done with watch collecting is like saying you'll stop having sex because you finally slept with the woman of your dreams.


Haha, fair point. I shot my credibility there in the foot when I started talking about next purchases in a thread I started called "Completing my collection".

But I do think it will come to an end nicely OCD about filling all use case slots is satisfied. It is definitely slowing down now.

My PowerPoint (yes I am so far gone that I maintain a PowerPoint document with potential purchases and various permutations of what the future collection should look like) document had about 12-15 potential buys at one point. Now it has 4 - 2 definites, and 2 other candidates from which I will pick either one or none.

That's progress, right? Right?

Wait. Where did everyone go?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

That you have a PowerPoint of your potential watch purchases made me laugh. I thought me having a spreadsheet tracking my income and expenses was bad enough 

It is progress or regression depending on the way you look at it. If you have the financial means (and I am assuming you do) buy until your heart is content if you so desire. If you get a high from chasing the proverbial dragon that is cool.

BTW, have fun in KL this weekend!

Back to my topic; damn VC! I keep seeing photos or on TV/movies of people wearing gold dress watches. As I have mentioned the plan was as I could only afford one high end watch at this stage I wanted it to be a gold dress watch. And of course my wife had to mention she prefers the Breguet watches I tried on to the Overseas. Ha ha, this is only day 2 of the wait for the Overseas.


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## TJMike

Day 3 update: looking at photos of the Breguet Classique 5930 and ALS Saxonia Thin 37mm not a smart approach.

Pros of buying an Overseas now:
Would regret buying any other watch over it.

Cons: Possibly would not be able to buy the 5930 new in the future due to it being out of production. And if the Marine on the bracelet does not fit my wrist that would most likely mean no Breguet watch for me.

Verdict: Still buy the Overseas now and avoid the Breguet AD.

Someone please post photos of the Overseas in the blue dial, especially if they happen to buy one this weekend


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## vkalia

I'll post VC photos tomorrow. 

And not to cloud your thinking - the Breguet Marine, IMO, is a far nicer watch than the Overseas, although filling a slightly different niche in use case. 

You may start coming to grips with the idea of getting both. You know you are gonna end up there anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> I'll post VC photos tomorrow.
> 
> And not to cloud your thinking - the Breguet Marine, IMO, is a far nicer watch than the Overseas, although filling a slightly different niche in use case.
> 
> You may start coming to grips with the idea of getting both. You know you are gonna end up there anyway.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are a cruel man. I was that tempted to go to the Breguet AD today and buy the Classique 5930.

Did you buy the Overseas or seeing it in person once again rule it out?


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> I'll post VC photos tomorrow.
> 
> And not to cloud your thinking - the Breguet Marine, IMO, is a far nicer watch than the Overseas, although filling a slightly different niche in use case.
> 
> You may start coming to grips with the idea of getting both. You know you are gonna end up there anyway.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And to add; I have already come to grips with the idea of buying three high-end watches by my mid-60s (budget withstanding). The Overseas will be one of them, a Lange will be one of them, and hopefully a Breguet will be the other. Of course the order I get them in is the decision that is driving me insane


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> You are a cruel man. I was that tempted to go to the Breguet AD today and buy the Classique 5930. Did you buy the Overseas or seeing it in person once again rule it out?


I only get there tomorrow. The salesguy i deal with "has set it aside for me to try out", suspecting rightly from the number of questions I've shot to him over Whatsapp that I am close to buying. I wont buy tomorrow, though - April is the earliest, purely as a matter of principle (transactionally, it is better for me tax-wise to transfer the funds to my fiancee in Malaysia and have her buy it - so even if i want to, i cannot buy it tomorrow unless i want to put in on my card and then deal with a tax bill comparable to the street price of a Bathyscaphe. Which i dont).

I meant to comment on this earlier but i am surprised that you found the Overseas to be a good fit but the Breguet Marine to be too large. My experience - based on bracelet versions of both, though - is that the Marine is significantly smaller on the wrist. I realize that rubber would appear larger, but i am surprised that it would be so tangible.


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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> I meant to comment on this earlier but i am surprised that you found the Overseas to be a good fit but the Breguet Marine to be too large. My experience - based on bracelet versions of both, though - is that the Marine is significantly smaller on the wrist. I realize that rubber would appear larger, but i am surprised that it would be so tangible.


It doesn't surprise me quite as much. I own both, and the Marine on a bracelet definitely wears smaller than the Overseas on the bracelet. But putting the Marine on rubber really accentuates the long lugs and would make it look considerably larger. I'd wear the VC on rubber, but not the Marine.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> I only get there tomorrow. The salesguy i deal with "has set it aside for me to try out", suspecting rightly from the number of questions I've shot to him over Whatsapp that I am close to buying. I wont buy tomorrow, though - April is the earliest, purely as a matter of principle (transactionally, it is better for me tax-wise to transfer the funds to my fiancee in Malaysia and have her buy it - so even if i want to, i cannot buy it tomorrow unless i want to put in on my card and then deal with a tax bill comparable to the street price of a Bathyscaphe. Which i dont).
> 
> I meant to comment on this earlier but i am surprised that you found the Overseas to be a good fit but the Breguet Marine to be too large. My experience - based on bracelet versions of both, though - is that the Marine is significantly smaller on the wrist. I realize that rubber would appear larger, but i am surprised that it would be so tangible.


April it is then. I also would not want to deal with the tax stuff. However, I am sensing you are having some doubts and something else could catch your eye.

As for the Marine vs Overseas. You saw the photos of the Overseas on my wrist; fits great. The Marine on the strap fits me on the last notch. As a result, the start of the strap goes completely around (by the date; six o'clock position). This combined with the long lugs really makes it look like I am a child wearing an adult's watch (I may well have the same issue with the Overseas on the strap). On the bracelet it may well be different (and I am hoping it is). Unfortunately the store does not have it in the bracelet. Considering they got the Classique 5930 in for me and I did not end up buying it (at this stage), I extremely doubt they are willing to get the Marine in the bracelet for me to try on. And there is no other Breguet Marine AD close to me.

So what does it all mean? I am 100% committed to buy the Overseas (I was meant to buy it today; sigh) and some time down the road I will try on the Marine with the bracelet. If it fits I will buy it. If it does not fit, then I will look for another Breguet. As I have mentioned before, I love their dials more than any other watch brand. And then my "last" purchase would be some form of a dress watch, such as a Lange 1815 Up/Down. So despite my claims that the Overseas will complete the collection in the hours after I first saw it, it will not. A lot of money, a lot of thinking, and we will see where it all ends up.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> It doesn't surprise me quite as much. I own both, and the Marine on a bracelet definitely wears smaller than the Overseas on the bracelet. But putting the Marine on rubber really accentuates the long lugs and would make it look considerably larger. I'd wear the VC on rubber, but not the Marine.


Interesting how you find the Marine smaller on a bracelet and larger on the strap. I never tried the Overseas on rubber, but I am hoping it fits well. I would be happy with the Overseas only on the bracelet, but hope it also works well on the leather strap and rubber.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Interesting how you find the Marine smaller on a bracelet and larger on the strap. I never tried the Overseas on rubber, but I am hoping it fits well. I would be happy with the Overseas only on the bracelet, but hope it also works well on the leather strap and rubber.












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

So I tried on the Overseas again. This time on the leather strap. Have to say - that didn't do so much for me. I don't like cushion cases, so the shape of this case left me a little meh. Since I plan to wear it with a rubber strap often, I am not sure if I'll enjoy looking at it.

I also tried on the Bulgari Octotempo Bi-Retrograde. That looks smashingly smashing - only a bit too similar to the RO (Gents pretty much shot his load with that case design, didn't he?).



















I think I am gonna skip the Overseas and perhaps get the Panerai 682 when it is released. Or just save and go for the Lange 1815 when prices are announced in July.

Bit ironic, after all the hype I had built up over this.

On a semi-unrelated note: did get a Gruppo Gamma on Friday and was wearing it when I went to visit my mom - she, who never notices my watches, looked at this one and said "that's looks fantastic". Maybe that's MY sign.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Too bad on the Overseas. I much prefer the Overseas on the bracelet compared to leather or rubber. I should point out though that it does look very good on your wrist.

If you do not end up getting the Overseas I would save up for the Lange. I do wonder though how the Lange will look in person (i.e. not in some blown-up photo). Hopefully, just as good but my concern would be whether the dial would be too cluttered.


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## drhr

vkalia said:


> So I tried on the Overseas again. This time on the leather strap. Have to say - that didn't do so much for me. I don't like cushion cases, so the shape of this case left me a little meh. Since I plan to wear it with a rubber strap often, I am not sure if I'll enjoy looking at it.
> 
> I also tried on the Bulgari Octotempo Bi-Retrograde. That looks smashingly smashing - only a bit too similar to the RO (Gents pretty much shot his load with that case design, didn't he?).
> 
> I think I am gonna skip the Overseas and perhaps get the Panerai 682 when it is released. Or just save and go for the Lange 1815 when prices are announced in July.
> 
> Bit ironic, after all the hype I had built up over this.
> 
> On a semi-unrelated note: did get a Gruppo Gamma on Friday and was wearing it when I went to visit my mom - she, who never notices my watches, looked at this one and said "that's looks fantastic". Maybe that's MY sign.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTEo
> 
> Count yourself lucky to be able to try before buying, unlike some of us here ;-) . . . now, I eagerly await the arrival of the Lange :-!


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## TJMike

drhr said:


> vkalia said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I tried on the Overseas again. This time on the leather strap. Have to say - that didn't do so much for me. I don't like cushion cases, so the shape of this case left me a little meh. Since I plan to wear it with a rubber strap often, I am not sure if I'll enjoy looking at it.
> 
> I also tried on the Bulgari Octotempo Bi-Retrograde. That looks smashingly smashing - only a bit too similar to the RO (Gents pretty much shot his load with that case design, didn't he?).
> 
> I think I am gonna skip the Overseas and perhaps get the Panerai 682 when it is released. Or just save and go for the Lange 1815 when prices are announced in July.
> 
> Bit ironic, after all the hype I had built up over this.
> 
> On a semi-unrelated note: did get a Gruppo Gamma on Friday and was wearing it when I went to visit my mom - she, who never notices my watches, looked at this one and said "that's looks fantastic". Maybe that's MY sign.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTEo
> 
> Count yourself lucky to be able to try before buying, unlike some of us here ;-) . . . now, I eagerly await the arrival of the Lange :-!
> 
> 
> 
> You are buying the 1815 Annual Calendar? If so, I look forward to seeing the photos!
Click to expand...


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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> So I tried on the Overseas again. This time on the leather strap. Have to say - that didn't do so much for me. I don't like cushion cases, so the shape of this case left me a little meh. Since I plan to wear it with a rubber strap often, I am not sure if I'll enjoy looking at it.
> 
> I also tried on the Bulgari Octotempo Bi-Retrograde. That looks smashingly smashing - only a bit too similar to the RO (Gents pretty much shot his load with that case design, didn't he?).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I am gonna skip the Overseas and perhaps get the Panerai 682 when it is released. Or just save and go for the Lange 1815 when prices are announced in July.
> 
> Bit ironic, after all the hype I had built up over this.
> 
> On a semi-unrelated note: did get a Gruppo Gamma on Friday and was wearing it when I went to visit my mom - she, who never notices my watches, looked at this one and said "that's looks fantastic". Maybe that's MY sign.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No doubt the Overseas was born to be on its bracelet. Like drhr, I thought it looked good in the picture, but what matters is what you think.

P.S. Can't go wrong with Lange.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

drhr said:


> Count yourself lucky to be able to try before buying, unlike some of us here ;-) . . . now, I eagerly await the arrival of the Lange :-!


I cannot believe that you buy all your watches - especially the high end stuff - sight unseen. You're a braver man than I am. Do you get to CONUS or Japan regularly?

As for the VC, I am glad, in a way. Now my 2 slots are clear:
- Panerai 682 or Blancpain FF Bathyscape
- ALS 1815 Annual Calendar or Up/Down

Gonna have to see it the Annual Calendar in the flesh first. Not so concerned about the busy dial (most of my watches are pretty spartan there) but more about how the gold looks against my skin.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> As for the VC, I am glad, in a way. Now my 2 slots are clear:
> - Panerai 682 or Blancpain FF Bathyscape
> - ALS 1815 Annual Calendar or Up/Down
> 
> Gonna have to see it the Annual Calendar in the flesh first. Not so concerned about the busy dial (most of my watches are pretty spartan there) but more about how the gold looks against my skin.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is good to have some clarity. I am used to spartan dials hence when I see I busy dial it often does not seem right. But the Lange in photos looks great; it is the best annual or perpetual calendar I have seen.

After going insane about what order to buy my watches, I finally settled on getting the Overseas first. To maintain my willpower I will avoid going into Breguet and Lange stores. Avoiding Lange stores will be easy as there are none here, but the Breguet store is less than 100m from the VC store.


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## drhr

TJMike said:


> drhr said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are buying the 1815 Annual Calendar? If so, I look forward to seeing the photos!
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, isn't vkalia thinking 1815?
Click to expand...


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## TJMike

drhr said:


> TJMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, isn't vkalia thinking 1815?
> 
> 
> 
> He is planning to. I misread your post. I thought you were also getting a Lange Annual Calendar.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


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## drhr

vkalia said:


> I cannot believe that you buy all your watches - especially the high end stuff - sight unseen. You're a braver man than I am. Do you get to CONUS or Japan regularly?
> 
> As for the VC, I am glad, in a way. Now my 2 slots are clear:
> - Panerai 682 or Blancpain FF Bathyscape
> - ALS 1815 Annual Calendar or Up/Down
> 
> Gonna have to see it the Annual Calendar in the flesh first. Not so concerned about the busy dial (most of my watches are pretty spartan there) but more about how the gold looks against my skin.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh, I see . . either the AC or Up/Down.
Yeah, I don't get to see most of what I've purchased up close for various reasons and I don't travel much so it has been iffy sometimes. Luckily I went through enough pieces early on to be able to gauge the right sizes for my wrist. And close up pics pretty much has given me enough info as to dial and case to make informed buys. Really not much choice otherwise . . .


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## drhr

TJMike said:


> drhr said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is planning to. I misread your post. I thought you were also getting a Lange Annual Calendar.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, gotcha . . . well, if at all it'll have to wait till I decide on the new blue dialed 15450 RO, mesmerizing in photos . . .
Click to expand...


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## TJMike

TJMike said:


> It is good to have some clarity. I am used to spartan dials hence when I see I busy dial it often does not seem right. But the Lange in photos looks great; it is the best annual or perpetual calendar I have seen.
> 
> After going insane about what order to buy my watches, I finally settled on getting the Overseas first. To maintain my willpower I will avoid going into Breguet and Lange stores. Avoiding Lange stores will be easy as there are none here, but the Breguet store is less than 100m from the VC store.


Willpower evaporated. I asked my wife to call the Breguet store to see if they can get the Marine on the bracelet for me to try on. At this stage, it is my head (Breguet, much better deal; very close to gray market. And I love the Breguet dials more than the Overseas dial) vs. heart (fell in love with the Overseas, but I can buy it a few years down the track at a better price than what I would pay now) decision. All this back-and-forth makes me laugh even more at the poster who claimed something along the lines of people who buy high-end watches know exactly what they want!


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## TJMike

Sometimes you chose and sometimes life chooses for you.

My wife called the Breguet AD. The Breguet salesperson said that the Marine was never meant to be worn on a bracelet (WTF?) and they could not order it in. They then told her the Classique 5930 in yellow gold was sold and they only had it in white gold. I like it in white gold, but not for the extra $1000+. Clarity achieved once again and I feel a sense of calmness; I will be getting the Overseas in 1-2 months.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> The Breguet salesperson said that the Marine was never meant to be worn on a bracelet (WTF?) and they could not order it in.


Huh??? That makes absolutely no sense. I suspect either they simply don't want to be bothered or maybe if they order it and you don't buy it they can't send it back, and don't want the inventory.

Anyway, I think you'll be very happy with the Overseas.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Huh??? That makes absolutely no sense. I suspect either they simply don't want to be bothered or maybe if they order it and you don't buy it they can't send it back, and don't want the inventory.
> 
> Anyway, I think you'll be very happy with the Overseas.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am guessing that they thought I would not end up buying something. However, my wife made it clear that if the watch fit me I would buy it. Of course the same sales people tried to convince me that the Classique 9530 at 35.5mm was not a man's watch. It is their loss.

I _know_ I will be happy with the Overseas


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## vkalia

drhr said:


> Oh, I see . . either the AC or Up/Down.
> Yeah, I don't get to see most of what I've purchased up close for various reasons and I don't travel much so it has been iffy sometimes. Luckily I went through enough pieces early on to be able to gauge the right sizes for my wrist. And close up pics pretty much has given me enough info as to dial and case to make informed buys. Really not much choice otherwise . . .


Ideally, AC. If it is more than i want to spend, then i need to make a decision: do i up my single-watch max limit further (when i got into this hobby, i had set a limit of $5k per watch max, and as little as 5-6 months ago, i was struggling to accept paying >$10k for a watch) or do i settle for the Up/Down? And do i slap myself on the head for saying "settle" about a watch as nice as that?

For me, size is one thing - that is something i can predict reasonably well too. But its the little details - workmanship, complexity of the dial and case, depth/textures, etc - that i need to see in person to decide which way to go: the FPJ is a great example of a watch that i loved in photos but which left me underwhelmed in person. Although given the fact that i can usually go see them in real life, i havent focused as much on photos as i could, so there is that.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> My wife called the Breguet AD. The Breguet salesperson said that the Marine was never meant to be worn on a bracelet (WTF?) and they could not order it in. They then told her the Classique 5930 in yellow gold was sold and they only had it in white gold. I like it in white gold, but not for the extra $1000+. Clarity achieved once again and I feel a sense of calmness; I will be getting the Overseas in 1-2 months.


Congrats - but just to play devil's advocate: are you sure you wont have any "I wish i had tried the Breguet on a bracelet" regrets later? I've had similar cases of clarity being imposed by external circumstances, and have found that it is not the same as clarity imposed by own preferences.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Congrats - but just to play devil's advocate: are you sure you wont have any "I wish i had tried the Breguet on a bracelet" regrets later? I've had similar cases of clarity being imposed by external circumstances, and have found that it is not the same as clarity imposed by own preferences.


Thanks, I think 

If I want to try the Marine on a bracelet that means I have to travel to Beijing (about 2.5 hours each way; from my home to the store). If I absolutely love it that would mean I would have to go back to the AD here (much better discount) and get them to order it for me. It is just jumping through too many hoops for a watch that I can get in a few years if I so desire. The Breguet AD not willing to get one in for me to look at was the final straw. Buying a high-end watch should be enjoyable, not running here, there, and everywhere to try to secure one. Moreover, the price of the Marine on a bracelet is not that far off the Overseas ($1900 difference). I did not realize how close they were in price until today. And the big difference in price of the Marine on a strap and a bracelet actually puts doubts in my mind whether I want one at all.

And that leads to my future purchases. With the Overseas I would have three watches on a bracelet and I really do want a dress watch (I have an Omega De Ville, but on the bracelet it is not a dress watch). I was looking at the Lange Saxonia 35mm and the Saxonia Thin at 37mm and they are great value for money in addition to be so elegant and jaw-dropping. Moreover, I prefer such a style compared to other Lange watches. A Lange 35mm or 37mm may well have bumped a Breguet watch as my next purchase (after the Overseas of course).


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## drhr

vkalia said:


> Ideally, AC. If it is more than i want to spend, then i need to make a decision: *do i up my single-watch max limit further (when i got into this hobby, i had set a limit of $5k per watch max, and as little as 5-6 months ago, i was struggling to accept paying >$10k for a watch) or do i settle for the Up/Down? And do i slap myself on the head for saying "settle" about a watch as nice as that?*
> 
> For me, size is one thing - that is something i can predict reasonably well too. But its the little details - workmanship, complexity of the dial and case, depth/textures, etc - that i need to see in person to decide which way to go: the FPJ is a great example of a watch that i loved in photos but which left me underwhelmed in person. Although given the fact that i can usually go see them in real life, i havent focused as much on photos as i could, so there is that.


Ha, yeah we get jaded so quickly in this nutty passion. The AC is one great looking watch, one of the few if not the only one that I'd have no problem wearing even though I'd never use the complication. It just looks so dang aesthetically perfect to my eyes. And, no one does not "settle" for any 1815, they are as good as anything out there and should be worn with a great deal of pride. Whichever one it is, man it'll be the cat's meow for sure . . .


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Ideally, AC. If it is more than i want to spend, then i need to make a decision: do i up my single-watch max limit further (when i got into this hobby, i had set a limit of $5k per watch max, and as little as 5-6 months ago, i was struggling to accept paying >$10k for a watch) or do i settle for the Up/Down? And do i slap myself on the head for saying "settle" about a watch as nice as that?
> 
> .


I used to do a little, but a little wouldn't do. So the little got more and more...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> Ideally, AC. If it is more than i want to spend, then i need to make a decision: do i up my single-watch max limit further (when i got into this hobby, i had set a limit of $5k per watch max, and as little as 5-6 months ago, i was struggling to accept paying >$10k for a watch) or do i settle for the Up/Down? And do i slap myself on the head for saying "settle" about a watch as nice as that?


Ha ha. Yes indeed. When I started down the rabbit hole I couldn't conceive of paying more than $5k for a watch. Then it was $7500, then $10k... 

The good news is I did finally hit my limit, but it kept creeping up for a long time.


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## schrop

Fascinating thread. I've only sold two watches, earlier in my collecting days, and would only like to sell a couple more to get down to 7. And those are also early days. 

I like to think I'm getting better which is why I bought my Lang & Heyne without seeing it. I knew size, had really thoroughly examined pictures and spoke online to an owner. No regrets at all.

My VC I was able to try on in person over a two day period. Also no regrets.

Not sure if I'll be looking at another watch at the end of the year or not. Not sure what my upper limit is but I can't imagine it being more than 25% more than the L & H, and even then not sure I could afford that or would want to afford that (although there are some 50K L & H's I love). I just don't know. 

Right now I'm enjoying the ride with my VC every day. Finally a sports watch on bracelet!


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## TJMike

I think I actually reached my upper limit with the Overseas. 

The realization came to me yesterday when I was looking at the price of the Marine on the bracelet and Lange watches. The Marine being so close in price to the Overseas surprised me and there was the doubt in my mind whether it was worth it. Likewise, in regard to Lange watches; my favorite watches from them are the Saxonia 35mm and Saxonia Thin 37mm, and the 1815 Up/Down (also like the Richard Lange, but at 40.5mm too big for me for that style). I have not given great thought to which of the three I like best, but I realized that I could not pay $25,000 (before discount) for any watch. Even if I end up deciding the 1815 Up/Down is the one I like best, to me $25,000 is too much especially with the Saxonia 35mm and Saxonia Thin 37mm being $10,000 cheaper.

So I believe my limit is $20,000 (before discount). Of course, that figure will rise down the years due to inflation. And there may be some watch that will come along that I believe is so perfect it justifies spending over my limit. However, at this stage I have not found such a watch.


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## m0c021

Did breguet not give any discount for the marine? Maybe try to find a grey market? It sells for less than 50% on the preowned market. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> Did breguet not give any discount for the marine? Maybe try to find a grey market? It sells for less than 50% on the preowned market.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


They were giving me a very good discount; better than VC. I was just comparing MSRP of watches.


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## m0c021

Gotcha. My local AD has a few. The one on bracelet did feel smaller because you don't notice the lugs as much. However, it will only feel a little bit smaller. So unless you're saying you just wished it was .5mm smaller than I don't think it being on the bracelet will change your mind


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> Gotcha. My local AD has a few. The one on bracelet did feel smaller because you don't notice the lugs as much. However, it will only feel a little bit smaller. So unless you're saying you just wished it was .5mm smaller than I don't think it being on the bracelet will change your mind
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It will be interesting to see if I perceive a difference. However at this stage I have my eyes on a dress watch with a Lange Saxonia leading the pack.


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## m0c021

TJMike said:


> It will be interesting to see if I perceive a difference. However at this stage I have my eyes on a dress watch with a Lange Saxonia leading the pack.


Oh I was just nudging you to get the Overseas as I have similar wrist size, like this watch, and want to see more pictures


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> Oh I was just nudging you to get the Overseas as I have similar wrist size, like this watch, and want to see more pictures


I am getting the Overseas and there will be photos. The dress watch will come after the Overseas (and a few years down the road).


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## TJMike

Latest Update: rang the Lange boutique in Beijing. They are willing to give me a good deal on the Saxonia 35mm or the Saxonia Thin 37mm.

I honestly have never been this conflicted about a decision in my life.

I prefer a Saxonia to a Breguet, but I prefer the Overseas to the Saxonia. However better deal on the Saxonia and I can get the Overseas a few years down the road (budget allowing) from somewhere like Prestige Time at a much cheaper price than what I would pay now. I don't currently have a dress watch, but I have a sporty watch in my Grand Seiko. But I absolutely love the Overseas. However, I have always wanted a gold dress watch.

What would you choose?


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Latest Update: rang the Lange boutique in Beijing. They are willing to give me a good deal on the Saxonia 35mm or the Saxonia Thin 37mm.
> 
> I honestly have never been this conflicted about a decision in my life.
> 
> I prefer a Saxonia to a Breguet, but I prefer the Overseas to the Saxonia. However better deal on the Saxonia and I can get the Overseas a few years down the road (budget allowing) from somewhere like Prestige Time at a much cheaper price than what I would pay now. I don't currently have a dress watch, but I have a sporty watch in my Grand Seiko. But I absolutely love the Overseas. However, I have always wanted a gold dress watch.
> 
> What would you choose?


The Saxonia is a lovely watch; I personally prefer the older 37mm hand winder to the newer 35mm, both due to size and the dial design. But it's not particularly versatile--it's a dress watch and that's that. Although I wouldn't hesitate to wear it with business casual or a sweater, it isn't suitable for t-shirt and jeans IMO. In that regard I'd put it in the same category as my VC Traditionelle. So it really depends on what you're looking for.

However, the older 37mm Saxonia will get harder to find eventually (at least new) as time goes on. But how many of the blue Overseas will be available on the gray market? I've only seen the white dial version so far. But that may change.

I'm not helping, am I? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> The Saxonia is a lovely watch; I personally prefer the older 37mm hand winder to the newer 35mm, both due to size and the dial design. But it's not particularly versatile--it's a dress watch and that's that. Although I wouldn't hesitate to wear it with business casual or a sweater, it isn't suitable for t-shirt and jeans IMO. In that regard I'd put it in the same category as my VC Traditionelle. So it really depends on what you're looking for.
> 
> However, the older 37mm Saxonia will get harder to find eventually (at least new) as time goes on. But how many of the blue Overseas will be available on the gray market? I've only seen the white dial version so far. But that may change.
> 
> I'm not helping, am I?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ha ha ha. Thanks for your reply. If I get a Saxonia it will be in white gold and I would wear it with a t-shirt and jeans.

The blue dial Overseas is hard to get now, but I am assuming in 3-4 years it would be much easier to find.

My wife, in addition to laughing at my indecision, has said if I buy the Saxonia the difference in price between it and the Overseas can be used to fund my next watch purchase.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> My wife, in addition to laughing at my indecision, has said if I buy the Saxonia the difference in price between it and the Overseas can be used to fund my next watch purchase.


Game over, decision made. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Game over, decision made.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was indeed very nice of her and muddles my thought process even further


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## mlcor

I pulled pictures of the 35mm and old 37mm for comparison; I prefer the dial of the older 37mm with its applied balls, personally.


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## vkalia

You know, i dont know about that model - i tried on the 40mm Saxonia moonphase in rose gold and i have to say, i think that was very wearable with jeans and a polo. So dont rule it out entirely....


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## Solomente

vkalia said:


> You know, i dont know about that model - i tried on the 40mm Saxonia moonphase in rose gold and i have to say, i think that was very wearable with jeans and a polo. So dont rule it out entirely....


And why not? Throw it on a NATO and everyone will think you're wearing a Daniel Wellington. You're probably at least 20 times more likely to get a compliment if that's what they think too! I can hear it now...

Stranger: "I like your watch, isn't that a Daniel Wellington!?"
You: "Thanks. No it's actually an AH LAHNGUH UND ZOONUH"
Stranger: *furrows brow* "Oh..." *walks away disappointed*


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## TJMike

Here is the current Saxonia Thin 37mm








I do love the simplicity. As for the old version, I am neutral on the applied balls. Either way, I am no closer to making a decision.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> You know, i dont know about that model - i tried on the 40mm Saxonia moonphase in rose gold and i have to say, i think that was very wearable with jeans and a polo. So dont rule it out entirely....


If I buy a Saxonia I will certainly be wearing it with jeans. That goes without saying.

What I need is something like your Christmas shopping spree. I will buy the Overseas and then the next day buy a Saxonia. That would complete the collection


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Here is the current Saxonia Thin 37mm
> 
> View attachment 11103746
> 
> I do love the simplicity. As for the old version, I am neutral on the applied balls. Either way, I am no closer to making a decision.


Personally, I definitely need a seconds hand, but that's just me...

In case you're curious, here are my two main dress watches (although I have a couple of others), either of which I'll wear with business casual. Obviously radically different from one another...


----------



## TJMike

You have fine tastes.

Personally I prefer the VC Patrimony to the Traditionnelle. The Patrimony was _the_ watch I wanted (even as little as 1 month ago), but I have accepted that a dress watch at 40mm it is too big for my wrist. I tried it on in the store many times and it was a sad day when I relaized it was too big. The Saxonia size at 35mm or 37mm is perfect.

I need a seconds hand on all my watches, expect when it comes to a dress watch. For a dress watch I can go absolute simplicity like the Saxonia Thin 37mm.


----------



## vkalia

Solomente said:


> And why not? Throw it on a NATO and everyone will think you're wearing a Daniel Wellington. You're probably at least 20 times more likely to get a compliment if that's what they think too! I can hear it now...
> 
> Stranger: "I like your watch, isn't that a Daniel Wellington!?"
> You: "Thanks. No it's actually an AH LAHNGUH UND ZOONUH"
> Stranger: *furrows brow* "Oh..." *walks away disappointed*


Putting a NATO on a Lange ought to be beatable offense. And it will be, when i become the God-King of the planet.


----------



## TJMike

Planning to travel to Beijing next week to browse and potentially buy; I will be checking out AP, Breguet, JLC, Lange, VC, and any other watch stores at the SKP shopping mall.


----------



## vkalia

^^^ Post photos!


----------



## TJMike

Will do.

At AP I want to try on the Royal Oak 37mm, at Breguet the Marine on a bracelet, at JLC the Perpetual Calendar (I could be tempted by it with a decent discount (at a Beijing boutique (ha ha) and have a good look at a Reverso or three (in photos I am so tempted, but when I see them in person they do nothing for me)), at Lange the Saxonnia 35mm and 37mm, at VC the Overseas in white or gray, and at stores like Roger Dubuis whatever takes my fancy. If I have time I will walk down the street to the Journe boutique. There is nothing from them that I currently desire, but it would be nice to see their watches in person.

I will most likely go to the stores in the order listed above, but go to Lange last. The Royal Oak and the Marine would have to completely blow me out of the water to tempt me away from the Overseas, a Perpetual Calendar would be nice and I do like the one JLC produces, but I fear I could never get over how close 31 and 1 are on the date dial (it looks wrong to me), from photos I doubt I would prefer the white or gray Overseas over the blue dial but I have been wrong many times, and finally hit Lange last because, at this stage, the Saxonia watches I mentioned are the ones that I will possibly buy and relegate the Overseas to a future purchase.

Considering how I have changed my mind 100s of times in the last two months and how my plans have been changed by outside forces it will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## vkalia

Haaaave you seen these, Mike? 

SIHH 2017: Jaeger-LeCoultre - Reverso Tribute, new models | Time and Watches


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Haaaave you seen these, Mike?
> 
> SIHH 2017: Jaeger-LeCoultre - Reverso Tribute, new models | Time and Watches


What are you trying to do to me?! 

I had not seen them; my thoughts:

I don't like the seconds dial on the stainless steel models. The moon phase is interesting, but it would not tempt me away from a Saxonia or an Overseas. However down the line a possibility.

The one in pink gold looks damn great, except not for that price.

Edit: looking at the JLC website I realized I could never buy a JLC that has a date; 31 and 1 are just too damn close together. If that was not the case the perpetual calendar could seriously tempt me.


----------



## TJMike

If photos are any guide, the only watch that could tempt me away from either the Overseas or a Saxonia is the 1815 Up/Down. That watch looks so stunning, unfortunately it has a price tag to match.

If I adhere to my five watch goal, the Overseas and Saxonia would be watches three and four or four and three. The final slot is anybody's guess, and we are talking about years into the future, but I could see it coming down to a Breguet or the 1815 Up/Down.


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## schrop

I'll just repeat that I was in a similar boat. 
1) Could only get one watch in December
2) slowing down in watches I can or will buy
3) was the Lange Saxonia Grey boutique vs the blue Overseas
4) I would also have worn the Saxonia with casual clothing

It was very tough but I had to have the Overseas. 
My wrist is about 6.75 to 6.875. 
You might be in a different boat because your Grand Seiko is sporty. 

You will know when you try them on, don't worry!


----------



## Amigos

Mike, the ALS 1815 up/down was almost my first HE purchase. I love the watch. I like it in the 39 mm but the price was in "nose bleed" territory me at the time. I "settled" for a Breguet Classiqe.

European Watch Co in Boston has the 1815 up/down in platinum..36 mm at what I think is a fair price. It's stunning but I find it too small for me. EWC has a great website and an app that is great.

i think when we talked Breguet Marine, you mentioned that your wrists were on the smaller side. The 36 ALS might be perfect for you.

i have no affiliation with EWC, other than being a satisfied customer...and they are very reputable.


----------



## TJMike

schrop said:


> I'll just repeat that I was in a similar boat.
> 1) Could only get one watch in December
> 2) slowing down in watches I can or will buy
> 3) was the Lange Saxonia Grey boutique vs the blue Overseas
> 4) I would also have worn the Saxonia with casual clothing
> 
> It was very tough but I had to have the Overseas.
> My wrist is about 6.75 to 6.875.
> You might be in a different boat because your Grand Seiko is sporty.
> 
> You will know when you try them on, don't worry!


There we go 

My only issue with the Overseas is that if I buy it here I will be overpaying. I can easily afford it, but the rational part of my mind (the dominant part) keeps telling me wait a few years. I can then buy it on the gray market and/or at an AD anywhere but China or Australia. The Overseas in both countries is significantly overpriced. In contrast the Lange boutique is giving me a good deal on the Saxonia. Of course once I saw the Saxonia in photos I thought what a stunning watch and I would love to have it. Of course it may be different when I see it in person.

The other issue is that I have always wanted a dress watch; in my mind that is a _true_ watch (I know it makes no sense). And I have to be realistic that it is entirely possible that I could never buy another high end watch again (spending this much on an item goes completely against my usual mindset). If that is the case I want a dress watch, but I absolutely love the Overseas. Hence my dilemma!


----------



## TJMike

Amigos said:


> Mike, the ALS 1815 up/down was almost my first HE purchase. I love the watch. I like it in the 39 mm but the price was in "nose bleed" territory me at the time. I "settled" for a Breguet Classiqe.
> 
> European Watch Co in Boston has the 1815 up/down in platinum..36 mm at what I think is a fair price. It's stunning but I find it too small for me. EWC has a great website and an app that is great.
> 
> i think when we talked Breguet Marine, you mentioned that your wrists were on the smaller side. The 36 ALS might be perfect for you.
> 
> i have no affiliation with EWC, other than being a satisfied customer...and they are very reputable.


Thanks for the suggestions; I will certainly remember them in the future. The issue is that I live in China; any watch purchased overseas would be stopped by customs and I would be slugged by a 60% tax. As such, I either buy the watch here, buy overseas and not declare it. However, if I did get caught the 60% tax turns into a 300% fine. Morality of breaking the law aside, it is not worth the risk.


----------



## TJMike

For those who are interested, here has my thinking on what watch to buy has unfolded:

After buying my Grand Seiko I thought I would like a cheap beater to wear around the house. Then I started wearing the Grand Seiko and Omega De Ville around the house, so out went the idea of a cheap beater. I then thought I would like a Grand Seiko quartz as a beater. That got ruled out after the Seiko boutiques here could not order one in. The I realized it was a dress watch I was after. I was tempted by Mont Blanc and JLC offerings. JLC Mut Moon was looking like the winner until I saw it in person. However, I also saw the JLC perpetual calendar which I really liked, but it was the same price as the VC Patrimony (the watch I wanted since I saw it in 2014). I then tossed back-and-forth between wanting a Patrimony and a Saxonia Thin 37mm. The Patrimony was winning until I finally accepted that at 40mm it was too big for my wrist. 

During this period I stopped into a Breguet AD and really liked the Marine. I kept thinking about it and then decided I wanted it. Unfortunately, on the strap it was too big for my small wrist. This led me to still wanting a Breguet and had settled on a Classique 5930. I was all set to purchase it when the courier damaged the package it was in (and eight other watches). This delay led me to try on the VC Overseas. I had seen it in the boutique window and thought it looked good. It stayed in my mind. When I tried it on a week or so later it blew my mind; I was breathless. I loved it so much. I still do. Out went the idea of the Classique 5930. I was all set to buy the Overseas one week later when it got sold; there was not another blue dial one in China. This delay led my thoughts back to the Marine on a bracelet. The Breguet AD refused to get one in for me to try on and I realized I liked the Classique 5930 (which also got sold in the meantime) because its resemblance to the Marine (date at 6 o'clock etc). This led me to look at Lange watches again and rekindled my interest in the Saxonia. I still love the Overseas, but I will be overpaying for it. That does not sit well with me.

In addition, I always wanted a true dress watch. So the choice is I get the Saxonia now and the Overseas in a few years time via the gray market or an AD overseas or I get the Overseas now, accept I am overpaying for it, and the Saxonia in a few years time. I should add my wife has said if I buy the Saxonia now, I can use the difference between the price of it and the Overseas and use it to fund the purchase of the Overseas in a few year's time.

TL;DR: my mind was all over the place, but has narrowed between a choice of two wonderful watches and the order I buy them.


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> TL;DR: my mind was all over the place, but has narrowed between a choice of two wonderful watches and the order I buy them.


So, to summarize, here's Mike decision tree:









Then, finally, the light goes on:









:-d


----------



## Solomente

TJMike said:


> There are many reasons why I would not fly to another city to try on a watch; the happily married thing was a joke.





TJMike said:


> Planning to travel to Beijing next week to browse and potentially buy; I will be checking out AP, Breguet, JLC, Lange, VC, and any other watch stores at the SKP shopping mall.


 I can't keep up with this soap opera


----------



## m0c021

TJMike said:


> For those who are interested, here has my thinking on what watch to buy has unfolded:
> 
> After buying my Grand Seiko I thought I would like a cheap beater to wear around the house. Then I started wearing the Grand Seiko and Omega De Ville around the house, so out went the idea of a cheap beater. I then thought I would like a Grand Seiko quartz as a beater. That got ruled out after the Seiko boutiques here could not order one in. The I realized it was a dress watch I was after. I was tempted by Mont Blanc and JLC offerings. JLC Mut Moon was looking like the winner until I saw it in person. However, I also saw the JLC perpetual calendar which I really liked, but it was the same price as the VC Patrimony (the watch I wanted since I saw it in 2014). I then tossed back-and-forth between wanting a Patrimony and a Saxonia Thin 37mm. The Patrimony was winning until I finally accepted that at 40mm it was too big for my wrist.
> 
> During this period I stopped into a Breguet AD and really liked the Marine. I kept thinking about it and then decided I wanted it. Unfortunately, on the strap it was too big for my small wrist. This led me to still wanting a Breguet and had settled on a Classique 5930. I was all set to purchase it when the courier damaged the package it was in (and eight other watches). This delay led me to try on the VC Overseas. I had seen it in the boutique window and thought it looked good. It stayed in my mind. When I tried it on a week or so later it blew my mind; I was breathless. I loved it so much. I still do. Out went the idea of the Classique 5930. I was all set to buy the Overseas one week later when it got sold; there was not another blue dial one in China. This delay led my thoughts back to the Marine on a bracelet. The Breguet AD refused to get one in for me to try on and I realized I liked the Classique 5930 (which also got sold in the meantime) because its resemblance to the Marine (date at 6 o'clock etc). This led me to look at Lange watches again and rekindled my interest in the Saxonia. I still love the Overseas, but I will be overpaying for it. That does not sit well with me.
> 
> In addition, I always wanted a true dress watch. So the choice is I get the Saxonia now and the Overseas in a few years time via the gray market or an AD overseas or I get the Overseas now, accept I am overpaying for it, and the Saxonia in a few years time. I should add my wife has said if I buy the Saxonia now, I can use the difference between the price of it and the Overseas and use it to fund the purchase of the Overseas in a few year's time.
> 
> TL;DR: my mind was all over the place, but has narrowed between a choice of two wonderful watches and the order I buy them.


Pretty sure I heard that last line before when the overseas wasn't in the picture  GL with your decision. I made up my mind once I saw a 39mm Royal Oak in person. Hated the bezel (but loved the dial) in pictures but didn't bother me in person. It fit great and the decision was made right then and there that I would need one (I made sure I sat on the idea for a while before pulling the trigger, because you know how dangerous impulsive decisions can be in this hobby). Since You can't easily make up your mind, it just means 1. You will need to have both or 2. neither is truly what you are after.


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## TJMike

Solomente said:


> I can't keep up with this soap opera


Where did I mention flying to Beijing? It is 30-40mins away by train (about 2.5 hours from my house to the store). I also had to cash in a few favors to take the day off of work. In addition, as I pointed out when I stated I would not fly to another city to try on the Classique I specifically mentioned that "Tried all the ADs close by; no dice." Nevertheless, thanks for watching


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> So, to summarize, here's Mike decision tree:
> 
> View attachment 11111266
> 
> 
> Then, finally, the light goes on:
> 
> View attachment 11111274
> 
> 
> :-d


Actually, it is still the first one! For every other decision I have made in my life it is the second one. My wife is absolutely amazed at my indecision, as every other decision I have had to make my mind instantly process the facts etc and determines what path to follow in less than one day.


----------



## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> Pretty sure I heard that last line before when the overseas wasn't in the picture  GL with your decision. I made up my mind once I saw a 39mm Royal Oak in person. Hated the bezel (but loved the dial) in pictures but didn't bother me in person. It fit great and the decision was made right then and there that I would need one (I made sure I sat on the idea for a while before pulling the trigger, because you know how dangerous impulsive decisions can be in this hobby). Since You can't easily make up your mind, it just means 1. You will need to have both or 2. neither is truly what you are after.


That I could not easily make up my mind before did indeed mean that a particular watch I wanted was not the one. As things stand now in my messed up mind, I truly need the Overseas and I truly need a dress watch. The Overseas I will buy and unless the Saxonia wears completely different than what I expect I will buy that also. I was wrestling with the order to buy them in, but dare I say I have now made up my mind.


----------



## m0c021

TJMike said:


> That I could not easily make up my mind before did indeed mean that a particular watch I wanted was not the one. As things stand now in my messed up mind, I truly need the Overseas and I truly need a dress watch. The Overseas I will buy and unless the Saxonia wears completely different than what I expect I will buy that also. I was wrestling with the order to buy them in, but dare I say I have now made up my mind.


Looking forward to the pictures, fellow small wrister!

Also, since I got the AP Royal Oak 15300, I have even stopped browsing watchrecon. That is how one knows they made the right decision.


----------



## vkalia

The indecision is part of the fun - the anticipation mixed with the potential thrill of the unexpected.

You arent alone. Here is what i am thinking:
- Buy a Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe at the end of this month - makes a lot of sense, i need a high-end diver, etc. etc
- Wait for the Panerai 682 and get that as my diver - i dig the Submersibles, but i have a Panerai already and do i really need 2?
- Wait for the ALS AC and get it - except that it makes no sense to have my most expensive watch be something that is so dressy
- Try to flog my GO Panomatic and get a Grande Lange 1 - except that i do like the 1815 series, and i'd rather have an 1815 + GO, rather than a Grande Lange. BUT the Grand Lange is the iconic Lange. BUT I did get a JLC Master Geo instead of a Reverso and an Explorer 2 instead of a Sub, so there is precedent here.

Frack it, dude, let's go bowling.


----------



## TJMike

Fun is not exactly the word I would use, but it has certainly been interesting.

The unexpected will be when I buy a Royal Oak and a Journe 

My mind is pretty settled on the order I buy the watches; well for at least 16 hours so far. Although there will probably be another update later today; joking, I think.

As for what you should do I have no idea, except I would never get an iconic watch just for the sake of having it. In my not so humble opinion, the 1815 series are so much better than the Grande Lange.

I was going to add that it is better to own one watch of different brands than have multiple watches from the same brand. That was my idea too. However I realized I could easily end up with two watches from VC or Lange, so...

And bowling is a damn fine idea.


----------



## Capt_Corto

Hi everybody!

I have been preparing myself to acquire my first (and probably the last) higher end timepiece. I have been admiring AP RO for the last 27 years - since I first saw one with my father (who is into watches).

Long story short: I have extremely small wrist, 16-16,2cm from the smallest area and this thin wrist area is relatively long and then suddenly broadens where the forearm begins.
RO´s have pretty long lug-to-lug distance so all the larger models are completely out of the question. 
I have a deep hate against lug overhang and I am disgusted by the fit where the bracelet almost suddenly drops to the sides of the wrist.

Classical proportions are beautiful where the bracelet can be seen from the top side of the wrist. (Please see Rolex advertisement pictures - they always choose models for the watches where it looks like that on the wrist.. And vice versa)







Image kindly borrowed from Rolex.

Current Royal Oak collection offers two smaller sizes: Ref 15450ST (37mm Automatic) and the "ladies" collection 33mm Ref 67650ST (Quartz). The current "ladies" size looks very close to original and can be considered as unisex watch due to same design as the bigger brothers.

Do you know anybody with very small wrists having either model? Pictures would be very welcome. I have a possibility to fit the watches on June.

Movement wise I don´t care if it is a quartz or automatic. Classical fit is the key factor here.

This is my first post here so please don't bash me


----------



## TJMike

Monday is the day for my watch browsing and potentially buying day in Beijing. Only a few more days until I end up with a Roger Dubuis


----------



## m0c021

Capt_Corto said:


> Hi everybody!
> 
> I have been preparing myself to acquire my first (and probably the last) higher end timepiece. I have been admiring AP RO for the last 27 years - since I first saw one with my father (who is into watches).
> 
> Long story short: I have extremely small wrist, 16-16,2cm from the smallest area and this thin wrist area is relatively long and then suddenly broadens where the forearm begins.
> RO´s have pretty long lug-to-lug distance so all the larger models are completely out of the question.
> I have a deep hate against lug overhang and I am disgusted by the fit where the bracelet almost suddenly drops to the sides of the wrist.
> 
> Classical proportions are beautiful where the bracelet can be seen from the top side of the wrist. (Please see Rolex advertisement pictures - they always choose models for the watches where it looks like that on the wrist.. And vice versa)
> View attachment 11119474
> 
> Image kindly borrowed from Rolex.
> 
> Current Royal Oak collection offers two smaller sizes: Ref 15450ST (37mm Automatic) and the "ladies" collection 33mm Ref 67650ST (Quartz). The current "ladies" size looks very close to original and can be considered as unisex watch due to same design as the bigger brothers.
> 
> Do you know anybody with very small wrists having either model? Pictures would be very welcome. I have a possibility to fit the watches on June.
> 
> Movement wise I don´t care if it is a quartz or automatic. Classical fit is the key factor here.
> 
> This is my first post here so please don't bash me


You probably should have started a new thread since your question does not pertain to the two topics at hand: 1.) OP's indecisive and 2.) VC Overseas.

Since I do have some input I will give my opinion. Have you tried any of the RO variants in person? This is not a watch you should buy without trying on as the integrated lugs may or may not fit you well. I have 15.8-15.9cm wrist and found the 37mm too small. The watch pictures is the 39mm variant. As you can see, there are links present on both sides on a bigger version of the 15450 and smaller wrist than yours. The 15450 should look like what you're after if it wears comfortably.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Capt_Corto

Thanks for this - exactly what I was looking after. I will definitely then try several sizes to find the right one.

Apologies for the thread starter for the derailing of the topic.


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> You probably should have started a new thread since your question does not pertain to the two topics at hand: 1.) OP's indecisive and 2.) VC Overseas.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


That is harsh! It also included a discussion of how many watches are enough, most people are willing to pay for a watch, and vkalia falling in and out of love of the Overseas. To be fair it is mostly about my indecisiveness


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## m0c021

Figured you wouldn't mind me poking fun a bit 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TJMike

Capt_Corto said:


> Thanks for this - exactly what I was looking after. I will definitely then try several sizes to find the right one.
> 
> Apologies for the thread starter for the derailing of the topic.


No worries. Welcome to the forum and good luck with the Royal Oak.


----------



## TJMike

Bit of a rant; I just found out that Glashutte Original has a boutique at the SPK mall in Beijing. I really like the design of many of their watches. So I was just doing some browsing and every single dress watch style of theirs is 40mm. It drives me insane. I could have been seriously tempted by a G.O but at 40mm it is just too big for my wrist.


----------



## Amigos

I own a GO Senator Observor, black dial on a strap..a deck watch. The arabica numerals on the black dial and the big date is gorgeous. At 44" it's at the top end of what I can wear comfortably..71/4 inch wrist. 

GO makes some beautiful pieces but probably too large for you.

If I had time, id probably check out the boutique, just for the fun of it


----------



## TJMike

Amigos said:


> I own a GO Senator Observor, black dial on a strap..a deck watch. The arabica numerals on the black dial and the big date is gorgeous. At 44" it's at the top end of what I can wear comfortably..71/4 inch wrist.
> 
> GO makes some beautiful pieces but probably too large for you.
> 
> If I had time, id probably check out the boutique, just for the fun of it


I plan to still walk into the GO boutique just to have a look. By my rough count, the SPK mall has at least ten mid-to-high end brands. Should be a fun visit.


----------



## mlcor

Amigos said:


> I own a GO Senator Observor, black dial on a strap..a deck watch. The arabica numerals on the black dial and the big date is gorgeous. At 44" it's at the top end of what I can wear comfortably..71/4 inch wrist.
> 
> GO makes some beautiful pieces but probably too large for you.
> 
> If I had time, id probably check out the boutique, just for the fun of it


I own one as well, the white dial version. My wrist is the same size as yours, coincidentally. The Observer is as big as I would want to go, but wears quite reasonably due to its short lugs. However, I would think much too large for you, Mike.


----------



## vkalia

Try the Pano as well - it wears quite small for its size.

(Beijing seems to have changed a lot since i worked there back in 1997, btw - to state the obvious!)


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Try the Pano as well - it wears quite small for its size.
> 
> (Beijing seems to have changed a lot since i worked there back in 1997, btw - to state the obvious!)


Will do, but unless they are different in person I could not buy one. I am not a fan of the date design (I know ALS has a similar date design; I doubt I will be buying an ALS with that feature).

Edit: looking at the PanoReserve and PanoMatic Lunar I could be tempted by them (more likely the Reserve). However, the Reserve is 11.7mm thick and the lunar is 12.7mm thick. If I am tempted away from the Overseas for now it will most likely be a thin dress watch. I would have to be blown away by them to buy either one. Any watch I buy that is not a VC or ALS just delays me purchasing a watch from either brand. Of course if the GO boutique gives me a good deal and the ALS Saxonia does not live up to expectations, anything is possible.

Beijing has changed somewhat since 1997! 

BTW, I toyed with the idea of getting a Cartier Tank as my first proper watch was a Seiko Tank homage (Cartier is also located at the SPK mall). However, as sacrilegious as it may be to some, I prefer the Seiko version. I also spent a decent amount of time checking out Reversos online. There is no version available in China that I would want to buy. So no JLC store visit for me (anyway I can always go to Cartier and JLC here; they have boutiques about 30-40mins away from my home. Beijing is not the only city in China that has changed).


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Will do, but unless they are different in person I could not buy one. *I hate the date design* (I know ALS has a similar date design; I will not be buying an ALS with that feature).
> 
> Beijing has changed somewhat since 1997!
> 
> BTW, I toyed with the idea of getting a Cartier Tank as my first proper watch was a Seiko Tank homage (Cartier is also located at the SPK mall). However, as sacrilegious as it may be to some, I prefer the Seiko version. *I also spent a decent amount of time checking out Reversos online. There is no version available in China that I would want to buy.* So no JLC store visit for me (anyway I can always go to Cartier and JLC here; they have boutiques about 30-40mins away from my home. Beijing is not the only city in China that has changed).


*Blue*: The GO and ALS big dates are actually quite different--the GO uses two wheels that fit neatly together with a slight curve in the middle. The numbers are located in the same vertical plane, creating a very smooth appearance. There is no division between the two numbers, and numbers less than 10 have a zero in front, i.e., 01. By contrast, the ALS design uses two separate windows that are framed, with a dividing line in the middle. They also use two number dials, one under the other, so the two numbers are not in the same vertical plane, but rather, one is higher than the other. Also, for dates less than 10, the left window is blank rather than showing a zero. So while they are both big dates, the execution varies significantly.















*Red*: Maybe this model is unavailable in China, but I was quite taken by the JLC 80th Anniversary Duoface. Unfortunately, when I saw it (in a shop in Singapore), I quickly realized it was far too small for my wrist. But it would probably be just fine for yours, if you like the style.


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> *Blue*: The GO and ALS big dates are actually quite different--the GO uses two wheels that fit neatly together with a slight curve in the middle. The numbers are located in the same vertical plane, creating a very smooth appearance. There is no division between the two numbers, and numbers less than 10 have a zero in front, i.e., 01. By contrast, the ALS design uses two separate windows that are framed, with a dividing line in the middle. They also use two number dials, one under the other, so the two numbers are not in the same vertical plane, but rather, one is higher than the other. Also, for dates less than 10, the left window is blank rather than showing a zero. So while they are both big dates, the execution varies significantly.
> 
> View attachment 11138570
> View attachment 11138562
> 
> 
> *Red*: Maybe this model is unavailable in China, but I was quite taken by the JLC 80th Anniversary Duoface. Unfortunately, when I saw it (in a shop in Singapore), I quickly realized it was far too small for my wrist. But it would probably be just fine for yours, if you like the style.
> 
> View attachment 11138426


Thank you for pointing out the difference in date designs; greatly appreciated.

I do like the style of that Reverso. And I do see that it is available in China (don't quite know how I missed it). I will indeed be going to the JLC boutique after all. Thank you.


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Thank you for pointing out the difference in date designs; greatly appreciated.
> 
> I do like the style of that Reverso. And I do see that it is available in China (don't quite know how I missed it). I will indeed be going to the JLC boutique after all. Thank you.


My pleasure; hope you're able to at least take a look at the JLC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

That Reverso is one damn good looking watch. It is very tempting. At this stage, here are the watches I hope to try on:

AP Royal Oak
Breguet Marine (on bracelet)
VC Overseas (white and grey dial)
GO PanoReserve (if I have time)
JLC Reverso Tribute Duo SS (prefer the SS to the gold version)
ALS Saxonia 35mm and Thin 37mm.

The Royal Oak could potentially replace the Overseas, but I doubt it. Same for the Marine, but I do think it looks better on the rubber strap.

The GO would only be purchased if I really like it, got a great deal, and wanted a more affordable watch. This would allow me to buy the Overseas a lot sooner. In other words, a lot of things have to fall into place.

It is possible that I like the Overseas in white or grey more than the blue dial, but once again I doubt it.

The last three watches are the ones that I could see myself buying now or after the VC Overseas (blue dial). 

In addition I hope to try on the ALS 1815 Up/Down. That is a watch I could see myself purchasing in 10-15 years; it's good to plan ahead 

There are no other watches that I can think of that I want. Of course something may catch my eye and I will make an impulse purchase!


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> That Reverso is one damn good looking watch. It is very tempting. At this stage, here are the watches I hope to try on:
> 
> AP Royal Oak
> Breguet Marine (on bracelet)
> VC Overseas (white and grey dial)
> GO PanoReserve (if I have time)
> JLC Reverso Tribute Duo SS (prefer the SS to the gold version)
> ALS Saxonia 35mm and Thin 37mm.
> 
> The Royal Oak could potentially replace the Overseas, but I doubt it. Same for the Marine, but I do think it looks better on the rubber strap.
> 
> The GO would only be purchased if I really like it, got a great deal, and wanted a more affordable watch. This would allow me to buy the Overseas a lot sooner. In other words, a lot of things have to fall into place.
> 
> It is possible that I like the Overseas in white or grey more than the blue dial, but once again I doubt it.
> 
> The last three watches are the ones that I could see myself buying now or after the VC Overseas (blue dial).
> 
> In addition I hope to try on the ALS 1815 Up/Down. That is a watch I could see myself purchasing in 10-15 years; it's good to plan ahead
> 
> There are no other watches that I can think of that I want. Of course something may catch my eye and I will make an impulse purchase!


I own each of the first three, having just picked up the APRO black dial after years of almost pulling the trigger. I would say the Marine is the dressiest of the three, due to the silver guilloché dial, although the white dialed APRO would be closer. Comparing the blue dialed VC to the black dialed AP, IMO they have different vibes, despite having a similar design ethic. The blue of the VC dial and the bracelet create a wonderful impression, the dial's appeal is the chameleon-like color changes and the depth of the blue. For the AP, it's the intricacy of the grand tapisserie that creates the dial magic. Both bracelets are phenomenal, but different. The VC's finishing is more subtle, the AP's has more flash (although not blingy), as it reflects more light. Both designs are exquisite. I give the AP the edge for looks, but the VC gets the nod for comfort due to its micro adjustment feature, which the AP lacks.

Obviously since I own all three, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I would urge you to look at both the black and white APs--I think they are quite different watches.


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> I own each of the first three, having just picked up the APRO black dial after years of almost pulling the trigger. I would say the Marine is the dressiest of the three, due to the silver guilloché dial, although the white dialed APRO would be closer. Comparing the blue dialed VC to the black dialed AP, IMO they have different vibes, despite having a similar design ethic. The blue of the VC dial and the bracelet create a wonderful impression, the dial's appeal is the chameleon-like color changes and the depth of the blue. For the AP, it's the intricacy of the grand tapisserie that creates the dial magic. Both bracelets are phenomenal, but different. The VC's finishing is more subtle, the AP's has more flash (although not blingy), as it reflects more light. Both designs are exquisite. I give the AP the edge for looks, but the VC gets the nod for comfort due to its micro adjustment feature, which the AP lacks.
> 
> Obviously since I own all three, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I would urge you to look at both the black and white APs--I think they are quite different watches.


Once again, thank you. Almost everyone who has posted has ben extremely helpful. However, can we have more negative opinions on the watches I am tempted by? All of you are making it extremely difficult what watches to choose


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Once again, thank you. Almost everyone who has posted has ben extremely helpful. However, can we have more negative opinions on the watches I am tempted by? All of you are making it extremely difficult what watches to choose


Hmm. Well, the GO is too big for you, and three quarters of the movement on the back of the Langes is covered so you can't even see it--who needs that.

How did I do? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Hmm. Well, the GO is too big for you, and three quarters of the movement on the back of the Langes is covered so you can't even see it--who needs that.
> 
> How did I do?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You did well on the GO (I'm not really tempted) and not so well on the Langes 

The watch I am really interested in seeing is the Royal Oak (apart from the ones I am really tempted to buy). People do rave about them, but while I used to think they were hideous and now I can somewhat see the appeal, I can not ever see myself buying one (famous last words). However, I am looking forward to seeing them in person. If I have time the same goes for seeing Journe watches (boutique 20 min walk from all the other stores I have mentioned). I think Journe watches are ok, but apart from the movement involved, they do nothing for me. I do wonder whether photos do not do them justice.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> You did well on the GO (I'm not really tempted) and not so well on the Langes
> 
> The watch I am really interested in seeing is the Royal Oak (apart from the ones I am really tempted to buy). People do rave about them, but while I used to think they were hideous and now I can somewhat see the appeal, I can not ever see myself buying one (famous last words). However, I am looking forward to seeing them in person. If I have time the same goes for seeing Journe watches (boutique 20 min walk from all the other stores I have mentioned). I think Journe watches are ok, but apart from the movement involved, they do nothing for me. I do wonder whether photos do not do them justice.


I went through the exact same thing with the RO--for a long time I thought it was ugly, then it grew on me, I almost got one, decided not to, then over the past year or so it was clearly just a matter of time.

I agree with you on Journe, I simply don't care for his dials, and while the movements look divine (in person, too), most of the time I'm wearing my watch dial side up. 

Just to further torment you:










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## m0c021

TJMike said:


> You did well on the GO (I'm not really tempted) and not so well on the Langes
> 
> The watch I am really interested in seeing is the Royal Oak (apart from the ones I am really tempted to buy). People do rave about them, but while I used to think they were hideous and now I can somewhat see the appeal, I can not ever see myself buying one (famous last words). However, I am looking forward to seeing them in person. If I have time the same goes for seeing Journe watches (boutique 20 min walk from all the other stores I have mentioned). I think Journe watches are ok, but apart from the movement involved, they do nothing for me. I do wonder whether photos do not do them justice.


I thought the same about the Royal Oak. Then I saw one in person. Now I have one on my wrist.

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## vkalia

The RO on the wrist is magnificent. That cliche is very true: photos do not do it justice. 


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> The RO on the wrist is magnificent. That cliche is very true: photos do not do it justice.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I will find out tomorrow. I will probably end up no longer desiring the Overseas and the Saxonia. Instead I will purchase the Reverso Tribute Duo and the RO  I have my doubts about the latter, but the former is a distinct possibility. The Reverso Tribute Duo is damn gorgeous. Although I do wonder at 9.2mm whether it is a bit on the thick side.


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## RustyBin5

When you give a budget of 10k it is easy to overlook cheaper models. You say you don't like dive watches and your current watches suggest you have good taste and like a more "under the radar option". This is furthered by your desire for the next one "not to be a Rolex". What about a zenith el primero or even for a very different option, the Tudor north flag or black bay 36. Great watches that stand up to any scrutiny, all in house options, all good on smaller wrists and could get TWO within your stated budget


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## TJMike

RustyBin5 said:


> When you give a budget of 10k it is easy to overlook cheaper models. You say you don't like dive watches and your current watches suggest you have good taste and like a more "under the radar option". This is furthered by your desire for the next one "not to be a Rolex". What about a zenith el primero or even for a very different option, the Tudor north flag or black bay 36. Great watches that stand up to any scrutiny, all in house options, all good on smaller wrists and could get TWO within your stated budget
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the compliment and your suggestions. I am not a fan of chronographs, so the El Primero is out. As for the Tudor watches; I do not like the dial designs of the North Flag or the Black Bay.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Well I will find out tomorrow. I will probably end up no longer desiring the Overseas and the Saxonia. Instead I will purchase the Reverso Tribute Duo and the RO  I have my doubts about the latter, but the former is a distinct possibility. The Reverso Tribute Duo is damn gorgeous. Although I do wonder at 9.2mm whether it is a bit on the thick side.


Having spent time with both, i find the workmanship on the case and dial of the AP to be better than that of the Overseas (and the Aquanaut, for that matter). However, size will be an issue for you. With the RO, you're going to have go for the 15202, which is a fair bit more expensive than the regular 15400. And doesnt have a seconds hand (a deal-killer for me).


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## TJMike

Having lunch after watch browsing. There were some surprises.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Having lunch after watch browsing. There were some surprises.


Out with it, man! What have you purchased?


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## TJMike

A day in Beijing:

Heading in I decided to buy a dress watch and get the VC Overseas in a few years. I wanted a dress watch now as it is a different style to my current watches and as perverse as it may seem the idea of saving up for the Overseas was incredibly appealing. I thought about saving up for another watch if I got the Overseas now, but my mind could not compute such a thing.

I arrived at the SPK mall just before it opened.

Once it opened I headed straight to AP. I tried the RO 15400 37mm. It is a lovely watch, fit great, but the design of the Royal Oak is not for me. It did surprise me how good it looked in person.

Next headed to Breguet. They did not have the Marine in the bracelet. Tried the rubber version; it is too big for my wrist.

Checked out Piaget, Roger Dubuis, and all the other stores. Not for me.

Next stop GO. they did not have the PanoReserve or the Pano with the moon dial I was interested in; oh well.

Went to VC. They had no Overseas (date model) in stock. At this stage I was getting depressed.

Went to JLC. Heading in the Reverso Tribute Duo was the watch I thought I was going to buy. In person the dials are so damn great. Every else about the watch was not good at all. It fit horribly on my wrist, looked awful (length was longer than my wrist), and seemed so thick. I was now depressed.

Last stop ALS. Tried on the 1815 UP/Down. A most beautiful watch indeed. A potential purchase down the line:









Tried on the Saxonia Thin 37mm. This was the watch I was going to buy if the Reverso was not for me. And to make me even more depressed the minimalist design made the watch look so big on my wrist. Even the staff said not to buy the watch!









At this stage, I was resigned to not finding a dress watch. I would just get the Overseas.

I then tried on the Saxonia 35mm. I liked it, I really liked it. I was wearing jeans and a hoodie. It looked good on me. God damn I liked it. The Boutique offered me a very good price. I bought it! So all great; here is a really bad photo.









On the way back home my wife told me that The Breguet AD contacted her and was now offering 31% off of the white gold Classique 5930. I may have swore on the train. Went to the AD. The dial is mesmerizing, but the lugs are anything but. They totally ruin the aesthetics of the watch.









So I was still feeling great; I made the right choice.

Then my wife told me that the ALS boutique contacted her (they did not know they were talking to my wife) and said that in addition to a cash discount on a purchase of a Saxonia she could receive mall credit of approx $2,000. This offer was not mentioned to me. My wife called them and they changed their story a few times about why I did not get the mall credit (it was not an ALS promotion, but a SPK Mall promotion). They basically told her bad luck. So while I am very happy with the watch, I am very disappointed that the store made no mention of the offer and was dismissive when my wife called them, especially as I could potentially want to purchase from them in the future.

That was my day.


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## mlcor

Congratulations! From the pictures, it looks like you made the right choice. The problem with Reversos is that either they fit you or they don't, and for a lot of people, depending on the shape of their wrist (regardless of its size), they just don't work.

The first Lange does look huge on you, a combination of wrist size, the thin bezel and the amount of white space on the dial. The lugs on the Breguet also are a problem for your wrist.

The 35mm Lange looks perfect for you. Glad things worked out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Congratulations! From the pictures, it looks like you made the right choice. The problem with Reversos is that either they fit you or they don't, and for a lot of people, depending on the shape of their wrist (regardless of its size), they just don't work.
> 
> The first Lange does look huge on you, a combination of wrist size, the thin bezel and the amount of white space on the dial. The lugs on the Breguet also are a problem for your wrist.
> 
> The 35mm Lange looks perfect for you. Glad things worked out!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you!

I must admit, I really thought your suggestion of the Reverso Tribute Duo was going to win the day. However, I liked nothing about it except the dials. There will be no Reverso for me as they do not fit my wrist in the slightest. I have never worn such an ill-fitting watch.

Likewise, I could not believe the Saxonia Thin 37mm was that huge on my wrist. I actually thought I was given the 40mm to try on by mistake.

As for the Breguet, what a wonderful dial and so horrible lugs. Unless there is a change in design philosophy, I doubt I could ever get a Breguet as even a 35.5mm dress watch looks wrong on my wrist due to the lugs.

I'm happy with the Saxonia 35mm. I was not expecting that would be the one, but was very pleasantly surprised.


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## RustyBin5

Reversos are weird watches. Very deceiving- they look small but lug to lug they are loooong and just look bad on a small wrist. Despite all your planning you seem very impulsive when you shop, sounds like you had almost decided you were buying an expensive watch that day even if it wasn't what you wanted, just as long as you bought one!!!! While I can relate to this particular illness , and while I think you made a spectacularly good purchase, I can't help but wish that you had maybe waited a day and at least seen the Glashutte Original in the flesh. Having said all that your choice rocks and I hope you wear it in good health. Next!


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## vkalia

Congrats! It's been a fantastic vicarious journey - I was actually wondering earlier today if you'd stay on target for the VC or get something else.

That Lange is a superb choice and, IMO, better suited for your planned use case than the 37mm.


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## m0c021

I feel so invested in this thread that it feels like I bought the watch myself. Enjoy the new watch!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TJMike

RustyBin5 said:


> Reversos are weird watches. Very deceiving- they look small but lug to lug they are loooong and just look bad on a small wrist. Despite all your planning you seem very impulsive when you shop, sounds like you had almost decided you were buying an expensive watch that day even if it wasn't what you wanted, just as long as you bought one!!!! While I can relate to this particular illness , and while I think you made a spectacularly good purchase, I can't help but wish that you had maybe waited a day and at least seen the Glashutte Original in the flesh. Having said all that your choice rocks and I hope you wear it in good health. Next!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am not impulsive when I shop at all. Indeed, considering the huge number of watch shops I have been into in the last 5 months I would say I am not opposite of impulsive. For the price range there are many, many great options in a range of styles. That is bound to lead to some indecision.

As for the GO, that was never ever under consideration. I wanted to take a look at it, but I was never going to buy it.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Congrats! It's been a fantastic vicarious journey - I was actually wondering earlier today if you'd stay on target for the VC or get something else.
> 
> That Lange is a superb choice and, IMO, better suited for your planned use case than the 37mm.


As you know, I was going back and forth a lot  The deciding factor was that my current watches are somewhat in the same style as the Overseas (my Grand Seiko being very similar), I wanted something different. Also, as I mentioned before, I always wanted a high end dress watch. Right now, even if I never end up getting the Overseas I am content (insert your own jokes). Speaking about the Overseas, I tried on the white dial at my local VC boutique after going to the Breguet AD. While the actual dial looks better than in photos, the watch seems bigger (especially after trying on dress watches al day). The blue dial really makes that watch.

Another thing I found out by trying on so many watches in the last few months is that when it comes down to it, there are actually very few watches that I would pay for. There are many watches I may want, but in the end something holds me back. Good for my bank account, bad for my watch collection!

As for Lange, the 35mm suits me great, the 37mm Thin was way too big. I was also very surprised (it was a day of surprises) at how understated the white gold watches are and how flashy the rose gold version are. There is a very big difference between the two. The rose gold is not for me.

Finally, thanks for all of your help suggesting watches, sizes etc etc. It is amusing how neither of us ended up with the Overseas, although in my case I hope that changes!


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> I feel so invested in this thread that it feels like I bought the watch myself. Enjoy the new watch!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks! It has been an interesting journey that has made me realize that while there are many watches I may want, there are less than a handful I would buy. Right now there is the Overseas and maybe the 1815 Up/Down. That is it.

And thank you for all of your help; it is greatly appreciated.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I was also very surprised (it was a day of surprises) at how understated the white gold watches are and how flashy the rose gold version are. There is a very big difference between the two. The rose gold is not for me.


Rose gold doesn't have to be flashy if some of it is brushed rather than all polished:



















The case sides of both are brushed, which reduces the overall bling, while still having a polished top bezel.

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## TJMike

I agree with you. I was just commenting on the ALS rose gold. The Patrimony I was tempted to buy was the rose gold version.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Congrats! It's been a fantastic vicarious journey - I was actually wondering earlier today if you'd stay on target for the VC or get something else.
> 
> That Lange is a superb choice and, IMO, better suited for your planned use case than the 37mm.


BTW, have you settled on your next watch? I will have to live vicariously through your watch purposes for quite awhile!


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## TJMike

Here are a list of all the watch stores in the mall; I vIsited every one. Note Cartier is listed under jewelry and not watches; fools.


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## TJMike

Nothing to see here...


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## TJMike

Off topic: I made a few posts via tapatalk, but while they show up there they are not visible on the watchuseek website. Anyone else experiencing something similar?


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## Amigos

Congratulations. Beautiful watch and it looks great on you'


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Off topic: I made a few posts via tapatalk, but while they show up there they are not visible on the watchuseek website. Anyone else experiencing something similar?


Yes. There's some weirdness going on with the site.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Yes. There's some weirdness going on with the site.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for that. Glad to know it is not just a problem on my end.


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## TJMike

The saga continues:

I will be returning the ALS Saxonia and getting a full refund.

The store got into contact with me (via my wife) and offered the following solution to the issue of them failing to notify me about the SPK mall promotion. I can return the watch and receive a full refund, they will keep the watch in their store safe, I can then repurchase the watch in April for the same price and I will also receive approximately $2,000 in mall credit. Supposedly there is no way for me to keep the watch and the store simply to give me the mall credit; the watch has to be purchased in April.

It is a hassle and very annoying as I will not have the watch for about a month (wife is going to Beijing on business on Monday and will return the watch, but neither of us can then make it back to the store until mid-April), but $2,000 is quite a bit of money (at least for me). And considering my wife has had to put up with my watch babblings and deal with various watch stores, I told her the mall credit is hers to spend.

Of course I assume that in the meantime the VC boutique will get the Overseas from Switzerland and offer me an improved deal...


----------



## RustyBin5

TJMike said:


> The saga continues:
> 
> I will be returning the ALS Saxonia and getting a full refund.
> 
> The store got into contact with me (via my wife) and offered the following solution to the issue of them failing to notify me about the SPK mall promotion. I can return the watch and receive a full refund, they will keep the watch in their store safe, I can then repurchase the watch in April for the same price and I will also receive approximately $2,000 in mall credit. Supposedly there is no way for me to keep the watch and the store simply to give me the mall credit; the watch has to be purchased in April.
> 
> It is a hassle and very annoying as I will not have the watch for about a month (wife is going to Beijing on business on Monday and will return the watch, but neither of us can then make it back to the store until mid-April), but $2,000 is quite a bit of money (at least for me). And considering my wife has had to put up with my watch babblings and deal with various watch stores, I told her the mall credit is hers to spend.
> 
> Of course I assume that in the meantime the VC boutique will get the Overseas from Switzerland and offer me an improved deal...


And since you've worn it - what happens if you change your mind pre April? They gonna sell that to someone as a new watch? Not a company I'd deal with if I'm honest by the sounds of it. Good luck!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> The saga continues:
> 
> I will be returning the ALS Saxonia and getting a full refund.
> 
> The store got into contact with me (via my wife) and offered the following solution to the issue of them failing to notify me about the SPK mall promotion. I can return the watch and receive a full refund, they will keep the watch in their store safe, I can then repurchase the watch in April for the same price and I will also receive approximately $2,000 in mall credit. Supposedly there is no way for me to keep the watch and the store simply to give me the mall credit; the watch has to be purchased in April.
> 
> It is a hassle and very annoying as I will not have the watch for about a month (wife is going to Beijing on business on Monday and will return the watch, but neither of us can then make it back to the store until mid-April), but $2,000 is quite a bit of money (at least for me). And considering my wife has had to put up with my watch babblings and deal with various watch stores, I told her the mall credit is hers to spend.
> 
> Of course I assume that in the meantime the VC boutique will get the Overseas from Switzerland and offer me an improved deal...


Smart move with respect to the mall credit...

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## TJMike

I have not worn the watch, will not be changing my mind, and will pay a deposit. Moreover, the ALS boutique does not have to give me the mall credit; they are doing so out of goodwill. To me that is a company I want to have future dealings with.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Smart move with respect to the mall credit...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To me it is a smart move for everyone; I get the mall credit and for the store it keeps a customer happy without costing them even one cent.


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> To me it is a smart move for everyone; I get the mall credit and for the store it keeps a customer happy without costing them even one cent.


I just meant the part about giving it to your wife to use. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> I just meant the part about giving it to your wife to use.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is also true!


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## TJMike

Amigos said:


> Congratulations. Beautiful watch and it looks great on you'


Thanks! I am very happy with my purchase.


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## vkalia

Nah man, that's a good move. That's a pretty sizeable chunk of spending $$$ and it keeps the wife happy (apply it towards a handbag for her, and you've accelerated your next watch purchase significantly ).

Check the fine print on that mall credit though - the AP boutique in Singapore also offered a sizeable chunk of shopping credit at Marina Sands, but I've always been a bit dubious about where you can spend it.



RustyBin5 said:


> And since you've worn it - what happens if you change your mind pre April? *They gonna sell that to someone as a new watch?* Not a company I'd deal with if I'm honest by the sounds of it. Good luck!


We dont know that, do we? Bit premature to find them guilty for this, innit?



> BTW, have you settled on your next watch?




Nah man, not yet.

The Blancpain Bathyscaphe is a candidate - it will get lots of wrist time, it fits my collection and lifestyle, but it doesnt make me breathless in anticipation. If they had a non-ceramic blue version, I'd be all over that, but they dont, so... The Panerai 682 (42mm Submersible) does excite me, but i already have a Panerai. I even tried the Tudor BB Bronze yesterday at a dealer in Brunei but it pretty much gets camouflaged against my middle-brown skin (I did find a Carlos Collodi MB Writers Edition FP there for a good price - i have been looking for one for a while, but the prices have been shooting up. Some consolation!)

I think i will wait for Baselworld and the prices on the Annual Calendar to be released, and then make a call.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Nah man, that's a good move. That's a pretty sizeable chunk of spending $$$ and it keeps the wife happy (apply it towards a handbag for her, and you've accelerated your next watch purchase significantly ).
> 
> Check the fine print on that mall credit though - the AP boutique in Singapore also offered a sizeable chunk of shopping credit at Marina Sands, but I've always been a bit dubious about where you can spend it.
> 
> We dont know that, do we? Bit premature to find them guilty for this, innit?
> 
> Nah man, not yet.
> 
> The Blancpain Bathyscaphe is a candidate - it will get lots of wrist time, it fits my collection and lifestyle, but it doesnt make me breathless in anticipation. If they had a non-ceramic blue version, I'd be all over that, but they dont, so... The Panerai 682 (42mm Submersible) does excite me, but i already have a Panerai. I even tried the Tudor BB Bronze yesterday at a dealer in Brunei but it pretty much gets camouflaged against my middle-brown skin (I did find a Carlos Collodi MB Writers Edition FP there for a good price - i have been looking for one for a while, but the prices have been shooting up. Some consolation!)
> 
> I think i will wait for Baselworld and the prices on the Annual Calendar to be released, and then make a call. [/COLOR]


My wife already mentioned something about a Loewe handbag... As for the fine print, my wife is making the store check all the fine print; I can envisage something like only x amount can be spent per store or for every $1 of mall credit you use you have to spend $1 out of your own pocket.

I am impressed with your willpower! It seems your heart is really set on the Annual Calendar; white gold or rose gold?

One of the many reasons why I bought the Saxonia straight away rather than mull over the decision was I expect prices to increase following Baselworld. I cannot see the price going any lower and it has remained steady for 2+ years; a price rise is due.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Nah man, that's a good move. That's a pretty sizeable chunk of spending $$$ and it keeps the wife happy (apply it towards a handbag for her, and you've accelerated your next watch purchase significantly ).
> 
> Check the fine print on that mall credit though - the AP boutique in Singapore also offered a sizeable chunk of shopping credit at Marina Sands, but I've always been a bit dubious about where you can spend it.
> 
> We dont know that, do we? Bit premature to find them guilty for this, innit?
> 
> Nah man, not yet.
> 
> The Blancpain Bathyscaphe is a candidate - it will get lots of wrist time, it fits my collection and lifestyle, but it doesnt make me breathless in anticipation. If they had a non-ceramic blue version, I'd be all over that, but they dont, so... The Panerai 682 (42mm Submersible) does excite me, but i already have a Panerai. I even tried the Tudor BB Bronze yesterday at a dealer in Brunei but it pretty much gets camouflaged against my middle-brown skin (I did find a Carlos Collodi MB Writers Edition FP there for a good price - i have been looking for one for a while, but the prices have been shooting up. Some consolation!)
> 
> I think i will wait for Baselworld and the prices on the Annual Calendar to be released, and then make a call. [/COLOR]


Off topic, what is the appeal in acquiring fountain pens? The one you mentioned is certainly stunning, but would you use it or is it the enjoyment in collecting and owning?


----------



## kenkls

Buy the watch, have the store send you the box separately. 


從我的iPhone使用Tapatalk 發送


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## TJMike

kenkls said:


> Buy the watch, have the store send you the box separately.
> 
> 從我的iPhone使用Tapatalk 發送


That is an option, but I doubt the store would go for it. They were adamant that the watch has to be purchased in April to be eligible for the mall credit.


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> I am impressed with your willpower! It seems your heart is really set on the Annual Calendar; white gold or rose gold?


Self control has nothing to do with it. I just haven't found the right watch. So I'd rather wait and swing for the fences later rather than satisfy an itch with a lesser purchase.

It helps that I am stuck in Brunei till the end of this month, and so even were I to cave in, I wouldn't be able to get something before that. 



TJMike said:


> Off topic, what is the appeal in acquiring fountain pens? The one you mentioned is certainly stunning, but would you use it or is it the enjoyment in collecting and owning?


I've been a pen collector for quite a while and the MB Writers Edition is a series I particularly focus on.

And I use them daily - all my note-taking, planning, etc is done with a pen, not a digital app. I find I can organise my thoughts a lot better with pen and paper than an electronic organiser.

Pretty much everything I own is for use, incidentally. I cannot fathom the idea of owning nice stuff and then never using it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

And the the colour - I am leaning towards the gold option because I do not have anything in that tone. I think it looks decent:










But I am also a little hesitant about venturing outside my comfort zone, as I am generally not wild about brown straps. Perhaps I'll buy an inexpensive Orient or something to test drive and see how I get along with it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Self control has nothing to do with it. I just haven't found the right watch. So I'd rather wait and swing for the fences later rather than satisfy an itch with a lesser purchase.
> 
> It helps that I am stuck in Brunei till the end of this month, and so even were I to cave in, I wouldn't be able to get something before that.
> 
> I've been a pen collector for quite a while and the MB Writers Edition is a series I particularly focus on.
> 
> And I use them daily - all my note-taking, planning, etc is done with a pen, not a digital app. I find I can organise my thoughts a lot better with pen and paper than an electronic organiser.
> 
> Pretty much everything I own is for use, incidentally. I cannot fathom the idea of owning nice stuff and then never using it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I say venture out of the comfort zone, swing for the fences, and get the ALS Annual Calendar. You already have a great collection; there is no need to buy a watch that is not exactly right for you.

That is very cool that you use pens. I have always been tempted to buy a good foundation pen (well I bought one for my wife) considering my profession. However I generally organize everything in my head before putting it to a Word document.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> And the the colour - I am leaning towards the gold option because I do not have anything in that tone. I think it looks decent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I am also a little hesitant about venturing outside my comfort zone, as I am generally not wild about brown straps. Perhaps I'll buy an inexpensive Orient or something to test drive and see how I get along with it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks decent is one way to put it; it looks great. While the rose gold looks very bold on my wrist, it suits you perfectly.

As for brown straps, I am also not a fan but I think the 1815 Up/Down or Annual Calendar in rose gold would look fine with a black or even a dark blue strap.


----------



## mlcor

vkalia said:


> I've been a pen collector for quite a while and the MB Writers Edition is a series I particularly focus on.
> 
> And I use them daily - all my note-taking, planning, etc is done with a pen, not a digital app. I find I can organise my thoughts a lot better with pen and paper than an electronic organiser.
> 
> Pretty much everything I own is for use, incidentally. I cannot fathom the idea of owning nice stuff and then never using it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is a significant overlap between watch people and fountain pen people--perhaps an appreciation of long-standing technology?

Totally agree with your last statement--whether it's watches, pens, musical instruments or cars, I buy them to use, not to add to a collection just for the sake of having a collection.


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> There is a significant overlap between watch people and fountain pen people--perhaps an appreciation of long-standing technology?
> 
> .


Or people with too much money?


----------



## m0c021

What if prices go up by April?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## lxxrr

Hilarious thread - the only model in this category for me is: AP 5167.


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> What if prices go up by April?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The saga would continue even more! The store has agreed that when I buy the watch again in April it will be at the exact same price I paid now. So if prices go up, they will give me a bigger discount.


----------



## TJMike

Well the watch is being returned today. I will buy it again in about a month. Though I do wonder what the store would say if I tell them I have changed my my mind; I want an 1815 Up/Down instead.... 

Of course the only way that could happen if I happened to somehow obtain an extra $100,00 or so in the meantime. One can dream.


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## vkalia

Out of curiosity - what was the deal with the mall vouchers? Spendable as cash, or did it come with a lot of caveats and strings?


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Out of curiosity - what was the deal with the mall vouchers? Spendable as cash, or did it come with a lot of caveats and strings?


My wife returned the watch and talked to the salespeople in Chinese (my Chinese is not bad, but...). Supposedly there are no strings except the points (equivalent to just over $2000) have to be used by the end of April. Not all stores participated in the promotion last year, but the overwhelming majority did. So it seem all good. My wife and I will go there sometime in mid-April, I will re-buy my watch and my wife has a bit of spending money.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Out of curiosity - what was the deal with the mall vouchers? Spendable as cash, or did it come with a lot of caveats and strings?


In a potential caveat, some stores only make a limited number of goods available to be used with the points. Although in a worst-case scenario the ALS boutique has said that I can use the points to purchase leather straps; I would be able to get five straps for the amount of points I have!


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> In a potential caveat, some stores only make a limited number of goods available to be used with the points. Although in a worst-case scenario the ALS boutique has said that I can use the points to purchase leather straps; I would be able to get five straps for the amount of points I have!


Not sure how much that would please your wife, though. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Not sure how much that would please your wife, though.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, I did say it would be a worst-case scenario


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## m0c021

TJMike said:


> Well, I did say it would be a worst-case scenario


Worst case for whom? You can lie to your wife but not fellow addicts.


----------



## TJMike

I happened to be having lunch today at the same mall as the VC boutique. As such I decided to go in and try on the Overseas because something was bugging me; namely the weight of the watch. In addition to having small wrists, my wrists are not exactly a mountain of strength. For example, at most I can only wear my Grand Seiko for 5-6 hours before I have to take it off as my wrist is feeling the strain. Trying on the Overseas again, my fears were realized. While not as heavy as my GS, the Overseas is not exactly light. I could easily see me having the same issue with the Overseas as with my GS.

While I cannot wear the GS for long periods in annoying it does not exactly bother me, but for the amount of money the Overseas costs I would want to wear it whenever I felt like it. I could of course wear it on the rubber or leather straps, but it is not the same. There will be no Overseas in my future.

So right now I have no idea what watch I will buy after the Saxonia. While I like the JLC Perpetual Calendar I could never get past the issue I have with 31 and 1 being so close together on the date dial. I love the 1815 Up/Down but even at gray market prices it is lot more than I am willing to pay. The old 36mm version would be great, but living in China I cannot access the gray market (as I have previously mentioned, taxes etc would be huge getting it mailed to me or bringing it through the airport). I love Breguet dials, but the lugs on their dress watches destroy the aesthetic for me. Right now I cannot think of another dressy-style watch (10mm or less in thickness) that I want with a MSRP of no more than $20,000 (my absolute limit). While it is entirely possible a new watch will be released before I am ready to buy in the future, right now it is quite upsetting.

I should probably start a thread asking for recommendations, which will end up me getting a thick sports watch


----------



## mlcor

Wow. Maybe you should continue to wear heavier watches to build up your wrist strength. ;-)

I cant' remember which GS you have but I assume it's steel. Have you ever tried a titanium watch like the Snowflake? They are extremely light for watches with a bracelet. Maybe you should consider some all-titanium pieces. There are a fair number of choices although fewer at the very high end. They probably also tend to be larger, though, unfortunately.


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> I could easily see me having the same issue with the Overseas as with my GS.
> 
> While I cannot wear the GS for long periods in annoying it does not exactly bother me, but for the amount of money the Overseas costs I would want to wear it whenever I felt like it. I could of course wear it on the rubber or leather straps, but it is not the same. There will be no Overseas in my future.


What?? No! After all we have been through together on these pages, you cannot keep the Overseas from us.

Go to a gym, man!

If you must - get on the Patek wait list, I suppose?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> What?? No! After all we have been through together on these pages, you cannot keep the Overseas from us.
> 
> Go to a gym, man!
> 
> If you must - get on the Patek wait list, I suppose?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The dream is over. This world is only going to break your heart.

There are a few wrist strengthening jokes I could make, but I would probably be banned from the website. Seriously though, in admiring the beauty of the Overseas it was not until I tried the white version on Monday that I thought that it feels bulky. Idiot me forgot about the weight of a watch. I was just captivated by it.

No Patek for me; in addition to every watch being more than my budget, there is nothing in their range that I would be willing to pay for.

I am really at a loss at what watch to aim for after the Saxonia.


----------



## nedley

I also have small wrists so this thread has been doubly entertaining for me. I recently got the chance to try on some HE watches during vacation in Switzerland. I found the Overseas to be quite fetching in blue but too chunky for my 6.25" wrist, particularly when viewed from the side.

Interestingly enough, my wife was quite cool on most of the watches I showed her but she commented positively on the PP 5164 without any prompting!


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## TJMike

nedley said:


> I also have small wrists so this thread has been doubly entertaining for me. I recently got the chance to try on some HE watches during vacation in Switzerland. I found the Overseas to be quite fetching in blue but too chunky for my 6.25" wrist, particularly when viewed from the side.
> 
> Interestingly enough, my wife was quite cool on most of the watches I showed her but she commented positively on the PP 5164 without any prompting!


Glad I have provided enjoyment to my fellow small wrister


----------



## TJMike

TJMike said:


> I happened to be having lunch today at the same mall as the VC boutique. As such I decided to go in and try on the Overseas because something was bugging me; namely the weight of the watch. In addition to having small wrists, my wrists are not exactly a mountain of strength. For example, at most I can only wear my Grand Seiko for 5-6 hours before I have to take it off as my wrist is feeling the strain. Trying on the Overseas again, my fears were realized. While not as heavy as my GS, the Overseas is not exactly light. I could easily see me having the same issue with the Overseas as with my GS.
> 
> While I cannot wear the GS for long periods in annoying it does not exactly bother me, but for the amount of money the Overseas costs I would want to wear it whenever I felt like it. I could of course wear it on the rubber or leather straps, but it is not the same. There will be no Overseas in my future.
> 
> So right now I have no idea what watch I will buy after the Saxonia. While I like the JLC Perpetual Calendar I could never get past the issue I have with 31 and 1 being so close together on the date dial. I love the 1815 Up/Down but even at gray market prices it is lot more than I am willing to pay. The old 36mm version would be great, but living in China I cannot access the gray market (as I have previously mentioned, taxes etc would be huge getting it mailed to me or bringing it through the airport). I love Breguet dials, but the lugs on their dress watches destroy the aesthetic for me. Right now I cannot think of another dressy-style watch (10mm or less in thickness) that I want with a MSRP of no more than $20,000 (my absolute limit). While it is entirely possible a new watch will be released before I am ready to buy in the future, right now it is quite upsetting.
> 
> I should probably start a thread asking for recommendations, which will end up me getting a thick sports watch


Looking at the JLC Perpetual Calendar in black; I probably could get past the date issue because I love everything else about the watch. Right now, the date issue is not a deal breaker. Yippee, I now have something to aim for. Of course I will not change my mind in the 3-5 years before I have enough money saved up to buy it


----------



## schrop

Isn't there a black Journe Octa made of aluminum and/or some other band material? Would be very sporty. I've seen one used (but mint) in the 20-23K range I believe...


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## TJMike

schrop said:


> Isn't there a black Journe Octa made of aluminum and/or some other band material? Would be very sporty. I've seen one used (but mint) in the 20-23K range I believe...


The Octa is made from titanium. Journe dials do absolutely nothing for me. Moreover, I could never spend that much on a used watch.

However, there will be another watch after the Saxonia. In addition to considering the JLC Perpetual Calendar, I really do like the Girard Perregaux 1966 38mm with the so damn gorgeous blue dial:


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> The Octa is made from titanium. Journe dials do absolutely nothing for me. Moreover, I could never spend that much on a used watch.
> 
> However, there will be another watch after the Saxonia. In addition to considering the JLC Perpetual Calendar, I really do like the Girard Perregaux 1966 38mm with the so damn gorgeous blue dial:
> 
> View attachment 11231786


I'm with you on Journe dials...have you thought about my suggestion to explore other sporty options with titanium? Both of the watches you're considering now are nice, but neither are even remotely sporty.

I've seen the JLC, and the black dial IMO looks far better than the off-white. The latter's tiny mismatched color date window causes my OCD to flare up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

That GP... OMG! Wow...


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> I'm with you on Journe dials...have you thought about my suggestion to explore other sporty options with titanium? Both of the watches you're considering now are nice, but neither are even remotely sporty.
> 
> I've seen the JLC, and the black dial IMO looks far better than the off-white. The latter's tiny mismatched color date window causes my OCD to flare up.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


At this stage, I have not even really started looking. However, I will certain look for sporty options with titanium.

I have tried on the JLC in black, but not off-white. It is indeed very fetching, but one potential issue is with my eyesight the legibility of the watch is not perfect.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> That GP... OMG! Wow...


That was my reaction too!


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> At this stage, I have not even really started looking. However, I will certain look for sporty options with titanium.
> 
> I have tried on the JLC in black, but not off-white. It is indeed very fetching, but one potential issue is with my eyesight the legibility of the watch is not perfect.


This is why I am not terribly interested in annual/perpetual calendars. Not willing to pay that much money for features I can't read. ;-) Besides, I am done buying dress watches--I have enough to last me until I retire (not that many more years), and after that, they will get less use than the sportier ones, so I've been filling in gaps there for the past year or so.


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> This is why I am not terribly interested in annual/perpetual calendars. Not willing to pay that much money for features I can't read. ;-) Besides, I am done buying dress watches--I have enough to last me until I retire (not that many more years), and after that, they will get less use than the sportier ones, so I've been filling in gaps there for the past year or so.


I was tempted by the JLC once, but the legibility issue was one of the reasons why I did not buy it. The GP has probably overtaken it in the next watch stakes.

I am the opposite: as I get older, (and more to the point, as my daughter gets older) I will probably wear dress watches more. Dress watches are by far my favorite style of watch. Currently the De Ville and the GS are my daily "beaters" and the Saxonia will be worn at least once or twice a week. I will see how this situation unfolds before deciding on whether I want a sporty or dress watch next.


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I was tempted by the JLC once, but the legibility issue was one of the reasons why I did not buy it. The GP has probably overtaken it in the next watch stakes.
> 
> I am the opposite: as I get older, (and more to the point, as my daughter gets older) I will probably wear dress watches more. Dress watches are by far my favorite style of watch. Currently the De Ville and the GS are my daily "beaters" and the Saxonia will be worn at least once or twice a week. I will see how this situation unfolds before deciding on whether I want a sporty or dress watch next.


From this I deduce that you are younger than me. My kids are older now, one graduating college soon, the other part way through.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> From this I deduce that you are younger than me. My kids are older now, one graduating college soon, the other part way through.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From your post, I would deduce that I am younger than you (I am mid-40s) and your kids are a _lot _older than my daughter. Congrats on the kid graduating college soon!


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> From your post, I would deduce that I am younger than you (I am mid-40s) and your kids are a _lot _older than my daughter. Congrats on the kid graduating college soon!


Yup, I've got 10+ years on you. Thanks, she's already got her job lined up although she's having to deal with entering the real world with the parental spigot mostly turned off. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

I'm going on a family holiday for the next couple of weeks, so I will not be around much. Anyway, not much is happening now in the watch world; right? 

The city I am going to only has an Omega/Rolex AD so not even much watch browsing for me.

To everyone who posts in what has become my electric, weird thread, have a good one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

Enjoy the vacation. I will be hunting watches next weekend myself, unless Baselworld throws up something i must have.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Enjoy the vacation. I will be hunting watches next weekend myself, unless Baselworld throws up something i must have.


Enjoy the watch hunting; I look forward to seeing what you end up with.


----------



## m0c021

Plot twist. During his vacation, he will find 3 new watches to torture his decision making. This thread will continue for another 25 pages before another decision is made. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> Plot twist. During his vacation, he will find 3 new watches to torture his decision making. This thread will continue for another 25 pages before another decision is made.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Ha ha ha. It is funny because it is true. I have settled on the Saxonia 35mm. The one after that will turn this thread into 150 pages!


----------



## TJMike

TJMike said:


> I'm going on a family holiday for the next couple of weeks, so I will not be around much. Anyway, not much is happening now in the watch world; right?
> 
> The city I am going to only has an Omega/Rolex AD so not even much watch browsing for me.
> 
> To everyone who posts in what has become my electric, weird thread, have a good one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well the city now also has an AD selling JLC, IWC, and Cartier. I went in an had a browse. The store had the JLC perpetual calendar in black. I tried it on and once again the legibility of the dial of the dial was an issue. Nevertheless, I asked about the price. The store offered me no discount. That is the first AD I have ever visited that refused to discount. Welcome to Australia!


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Well the city now also has an AD selling JLC, IWC, and Cartier. I went in an had a browse. The store had the JLC perpetual calendar in black. I tried it on and once again the legibility of the dial of the dial was an issue. Nevertheless, I asked about the price. The store offered me no discount. That is the first AD I have ever visited that refused to discount. Welcome to Australia!


The weakness of the Aussie dollar may have something to do with it, I bet their margins are hurting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> The weakness of the Aussie dollar may have something to do with it, I bet their margins are hurting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It may be that, but Australian AD's are notorious for not offering discounts. As for margins, the VC Overseas retails in Australia for about $29,000 (about US $22,000). So it is similar to the US price when you factor in the GST. A friend asked about a discount; no dice. I think the AD's are doing just fine.


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> It may be that, but Australian AD's are notorious for not offering discounts. As for margins, the VC Overseas retails in Australia for about $29,000 (about US $22,000). So it is similar to the US price when you factor in the GST. A friend asked about a discount; no dice. I think the AD's are doing just fine.


Interesting...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Interesting...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is one way of putting it!


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Enjoy the vacation. I will be hunting watches next weekend myself, unless Baselworld throws up something i must have.


Anything catch your eye?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

Didnt have a chance - am going to go this weekend.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Didnt have a chance - am going to go this weekend.


Here is hoping something catches your eye.


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Here is hoping something catches your eye.


The favorites, as of today:

Slot 1 - ALS 1815 - either the Up/Down or the AC
Will depend on the price of the AC and whether i want to spend that much on a single watch

Slot 2 - Blancpain FF Bathy Ti / FF Mil Spec / Panerai 682
Waiting for pricing on the Mil Spec. The 682 sings to me the most but i already have a Panerai and dont need a second.

Leaning towards filling Slot 2 right now.

Wildcard: 
- DaytonaC in white, if i can get it at a non-usurious markup.
- That GP 1966 you linked to
- Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine diver


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> The favorites, as of today:
> 
> Slot 1 - ALS 1815 - either the Up/Down or the AC
> Will depend on the price of the AC and whether i want to spend that much on a single watch
> 
> Slot 2 - Blancpain FF Bathy Ti / FF Mil Spec / Panerai 682
> Waiting for pricing on the Mil Spec. The 682 sings to me the most but i already have a Panerai and dont need a second.
> 
> Leaning towards filling Slot 2 right now.
> 
> Wildcard:
> - DaytonaC in white, if i can get it at a non-usurious markup.
> - That GP 1966 you linked to
> - Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine diver


As I have said before, you do have bad tastes 

For slot 1: I have been thinking a lot about the 1815 UP/Down recently. If I could get it at the price you could I would buy it ASAP. However, in saying that, in my mind, it is not worth double the price of my incoming Saxonia. If I had your watch budget (and AD discount), I would go for a so-called grail and buy the AC.

For Slot 2: If you like the 682 the most buy that one. You do not need another Panerai, but you do not need another watch either!

Wildcard: Please post photos of the GP 1966!


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> For slot 1: I have been thinking a lot about the 1815 UP/Down recently. If I could get it at the price you could I would buy it ASAP. However, in saying that, in my mind, it is not worth double the price of my incoming Saxonia. If I had your watch budget (and AD discount), I would go for a so-called grail and buy the AC.
> 
> For Slot 2: If you like the 682 the most buy that one. You do not need another Panerai, *but you do not need another watch either*!
> 
> Wildcard: Please post photos of the GP 1966!


*That's crazy talk. Let's not hear such things again.
*
It's not just a matter of budget, really. As someone (I think Tony2009?) had posted a while back - if you are spending $20-25k on a watch, you can spend $30-35k as well. After a certain point, it's just a matter of waiting. The main thing for me is scope creep - I broke my self-imposed $10k barrier with the AP, and now i find myself thinking along the lines "well, let's just pay the premium and get the Daytona". I've even started thinking of the Fifty Fathoms as a quick "little" purchase while i wait for the ALS. Errr, no. And the other thing is, then i have this internal desire to upgrade all my other watches to bring them to the same level, so to speak. Again, hell no!! I need to put the brakes on somewhere. These purchases are not affecting my financial health, but i could still find a better use for it - invest in something or whatever. TL;DR - i dont feel comfortable spending beyond a certain (ever-increasing) limit much on a single watch.

With the Panerai vs Blancpain - both have their pulls. The Blancpain would fit all my requirements perfectly: titanium case (I dont have that material), iconic diver/history, looks surprisingly good on my 6.75" wrist, stealth luxury (it'd be my daily wear here on the islands, on a NATO paired with board shorts, flip flops and a tee). The Panerai - it's a freaking Panerai. I love them and i miss my 24 Submersible. I could wear the 688 everywhere i wear the 682, though, so it is too much of a duplication. And there is a bit of paralysis by analysis - i need info on the street prices for the 682 and the Fifty Fathoms Mil-Spec.

Oh well. Thankfully, i am in no hurry and I have plenty of recently acquired watch to play with 

When are you picking up your Saxonia? This weekend?


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> *That's crazy talk. Let's not hear such things again.
> *
> It's not just a matter of budget, really. As someone (I think Tony2009?) had posted a while back - if you are spending $20-25k on a watch, you can spend $30-35k as well. After a certain point, it's just a matter of waiting. The main thing for me is scope creep - I broke my self-imposed $10k barrier with the AP, and now i find myself thinking along the lines "well, let's just pay the premium and get the Daytona". I've even started thinking of the Fifty Fathoms as a quick "little" purchase while i wait for the ALS. Errr, no. And the other thing is, then i have this internal desire to upgrade all my other watches to bring them to the same level, so to speak. Again, hell no!! I need to put the brakes on somewhere. These purchases are not affecting my financial health, but i could still find a better use for it - invest in something or whatever. TL;DR - i dont feel comfortable spending beyond a certain (ever-increasing) limit much on a single watch.
> 
> With the Panerai vs Blancpain - both have their pulls. The Blancpain would fit all my requirements perfectly: titanium case (I dont have that material), iconic diver/history, looks surprisingly good on my 6.75" wrist, stealth luxury (it'd be my daily wear here on the islands, on a NATO paired with board shorts, flip flops and a tee). The Panerai - it's a freaking Panerai. I love them and i miss my 24 Submersible. I could wear the 688 everywhere i wear the 682, though, so it is too much of a duplication. And there is a bit of paralysis by analysis - i need info on the street prices for the 682 and the Fifty Fathoms Mil-Spec.
> 
> Oh well. Thankfully, i am in no hurry and I have plenty of recently acquired watch to play with
> 
> When are you picking up your Saxonia? This weekend?


Sorry about the crazy talk; I was probably depressed that there are very few watches I would actually buy. However, judging from you wanting a quick "little" purchase and upgrading all of your watches, I am not the only crazy one!

It is true after a certain point that it becomes a matter of waiting, but the issue is how long a wait. Using me an an example, I would hazard a guess I am a long way from the usual high end watch purchaser. Watches are basically my only hobby that costs any money and my spending on other recreational activities is very low (less than $500 per year). Right now my watch budget is probably around $2000 per year. An extra $10,000 for a watch means probably a 6+ year wait (assuming the price of a watch increases in the meantime). That is a decent wait.

Scope creep is very real, but like you I don't feel comfortable spending beyond a certain limit. Right now my limit is MSRP $20,000. I look at the Saxonia 35mm (or Thin 37mm) and I cannot justify in my mind why the 1815 Up/Down is double the price. Right now, the only watches I think are "worth" the price and I could see buying are the Overseas (could still be tempted) and the GP 1966. Of course, by the time I am ready to buy again who knows what will be available.

Still two weeks to wait for the Saxonia. You _must_ buy something this weekend to help me pass the time!


----------



## TJMike

TJMike said:


> Well the city now also has an AD selling JLC, IWC, and Cartier. I went in an had a browse. The store had the JLC perpetual calendar in black. I tried it on and once again the legibility of the dial of the dial was an issue. Nevertheless, I asked about the price. The store offered me no discount. That is the first AD I have ever visited that refused to discount. Welcome to Australia!


Went back in the store today as I had some free time. This time I talked to the manager/owner. He offered me discounts on a range of watches. I was tempted to pick up a Cartier Tank (as I always am), but I walked out of the store empty-handed. Oh, also tried on a couple of Reversos; that watch is not built for my wrist.

I also went into a department store and saw they were selling Frederique Constant. I understand that they have quite a good reputation, but damn quite a few of their watches I saw were of the "homage" variety.


----------



## vkalia

What's holding you back on the Tank? That's another dress watch that, IMO, lends itself well to dressing well (even if casually)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> What's holding you back on the Tank? That's another dress watch that, IMO, lends itself well to dressing well (even if casually)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My first "real" watch was the Seiko Tank "homage". I loved that watch, so much so that when it was destroyed through constant use, I bought another one. I still have it in a drawer at home.








It may be blasphemy, but I probably prefer the Seiko version over the Cartier Tank. As such, I cannot justify spending so much more on the Cartier than it would to simply replace the strap and change the battery on my Seiko.


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## TJMike

In an update, there is no update. Shockingly considering this thread is now 28 pages and counting, I am very happy with my choice of the Saxonia 35mm. I repurchase it in 11 days. The only way that I would deviate from the Saxonia is if the ALS boutique wants to give me a 30% discount on the 1815 Up/Down. And since that is not that is not happening, the Saxonia it is.


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## schrop

I have an update:
1) Finally I am beginning to get my Overseas off my wrist after 3 straight months. Literally.
2) Have begun wearing my other watches, notably my Lang and Heyne.
3) My wife's Audemars will be in the shop for a while and she's taken a shine to my Nomos and now perhaps my Dad's Rolex.
4) Today I've got the Sixties on and am looking forward to wearing it.
5) Thanks to threads like this I can't get the L & H Georg out of my head, even though I am obviously, demonstrably, completely satisfied with my stable of watches. And the 35K price point is crazytown, way, way different than the 19K price point. Way, way different.

This board kills me.
Have a great day!


----------



## schrop

schrop said:


> I have an update:
> 1) Finally I am beginning to get my Overseas off my wrist after 3 straight months. Literally.
> 2) Have begun wearing my other watches, notably my Lang and Heyne.
> ...
> 4) Today I've got the Sixties on and am looking forward to wearing it.


This BMW is a loaner, mine's in the shop which is a bummer. But getting the summer tires on, so that's good. Anyway, poor me...

















Yet, I pine for some silly reason.


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## mlcor

schrop said:


> This BMW is a loaner, mine's in the shop which is a bummer. But getting the summer tires on, so that's good. Anyway, poor me...
> 
> View attachment 11424658
> 
> 
> View attachment 11424674
> 
> 
> Yet, I pine for some silly reason.
> 
> View attachment 11424690


It is lovely, but I couldn't justify the price, either. For a long time I suffered from "top of budget" creep as the amount I was willing to spend on one watch kept increasing. However, I definitely hit my comfort ceiling a year or two ago and I'm sure I will never exceed it. That watch is well above my ceiling, which has more to do with what I'd be comfortable wearing around than whether I could afford it...


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## TJMike

schrop said:


> I have an update:
> 1) Finally I am beginning to get my Overseas off my wrist after 3 straight months. Literally.
> 2) Have begun wearing my other watches, notably my Lang and Heyne.
> 3) My wife's Audemars will be in the shop for a while and she's taken a shine to my Nomos and now perhaps my Dad's Rolex.
> 4) Today I've got the Sixties on and am looking forward to wearing it.
> 5) Thanks to threads like this I can't get the L & H Georg out of my head, even though I am obviously, demonstrably, completely satisfied with my stable of watches. And the 35K price point is crazytown, way, way different than the 19K price point. Way, way different.
> 
> This board kills me.
> Have a great day!


Three straight months wearing the Overseas is impressive. I went two weeks wearing my De Ville while I was on holiday. I know it gets little love compared to the rest of the Omega stable, but I love that watch so much. On a long plane ride with my daughter asleep on my lap I was constantly looking at my watch.

Your GO Sixties is one fine watch!

You are with Lang and Heyne as I am with ALS (Saxonia compared to the 1815 Up/Down). The large difference in price is not justifiable in my mind, but...

Anyway, your "evil" post ha made me think about the Overseas again. If it was my only watch I could not get it due to the weight. However, with a De Ville, Grand Seiko GMT, and a Saxonia, the Overseas would be a great match. And I do want a VC. Then the question is do I really want to pay so much for a watch that will get heavy on my wrist after about 5 hours. I have a few years to ponder this question.

Have a great day too!


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> It is lovely, but I couldn't justify the price, either. For a long time I suffered from "top of budget" creep as the amount I was willing to spend on one watch kept increasing. However, I definitely hit my comfort ceiling a year or two ago and I'm sure I will never exceed it. That watch is well above my ceiling, which has more to do with what I'd be comfortable wearing around than whether I could afford it...


You raise an excellent point; feeling comfortable wearing an expensive watch. It took me awhile to get used to wearing an Omega around. I had no problem wearing the GS (almost double the MSRP of the De Ville). However, I think there will be another adjustment with the Saxonia (more than double the MSRP of the GS).


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## TJMike

schrop said:


> This BMW is a loaner, mine's in the shop which is a bummer. But getting the summer tires on, so that's good. Anyway, poor me...
> 
> View attachment 11424658
> 
> 
> View attachment 11424674
> 
> 
> Yet, I pine for some silly reason.
> 
> View attachment 11424690


A lovely watch, but for me the Friedrich III is far superior. That is one hell of a watch.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> You raise an excellent point; feeling comfortable wearing an expensive watch. It took me awhile to get used to wearing an Omega around. I had no problem wearing the GS (almost double the MSRP of the De Ville). However, I think there will be another adjustment with the Saxonia (more than double the MSRP of the GS).


For me it's less about worrying it will be stolen (I have insurance for that) and more about dinging it up. That's why I've confined my few precious metal watches to dressy watches, whereas my every day watches (even the expensive ones) are stainless steel or titanium. I love the look of the ALS Up/Down, but my GO Senator Observer has a similar look and I don't worry about whacking it on a door jamb. Or at least not as much as I would a watch with a soft gold case...


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> For me it's less about worrying it will be stolen (I have insurance for that) and more about dinging it up. That's why I've confined my few precious metal watches to dressy watches, whereas my every day watches (even the expensive ones) are stainless steel or titanium. I love the look of the ALS Up/Down, but my GO Senator Observer has a similar look and I don't worry about whacking it on a door jamb. Or at least not as much as I would a watch with a soft gold case...


That is what I meant; I am concerned about scratches and the likes on the Saxonia. I have had a "great" run in the last few days of banging my watches against one thing or another.


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## vkalia

Do some curls, strengthen those arms and get that VC, Mike

And @schrop - you know you'll end up with the Georg. Why struggle against the inevitable?

(If I am going down, I am taking you guys with me!)


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Do some curls, strengthen those arms and get that VC, Mike
> 
> And @schrop - you know you'll end up with the Georg. Why struggle against the inevitable?
> 
> (If I am going down, I am taking you guys with me!)


I could not get to sleep until well after midnight because I was thinking about that damn VC!

Anyway, back to you; I really think a collection that has both the 1815 Up/Down and the AC would be just about perfect...


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I have had a "great" run in the last few days of banging my watches against one thing or another.


Interesting definition of great run. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I could not get to sleep until well after midnight because I was thinking about that damn VC!


Here, this will help. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Here, this will help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I so love that blue dial. I do hate you


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## schrop

vkalia said:


> And @schrop - you know you'll end up with the Georg. Why struggle against the inevitable?


I can say with some certainty after getting my taxes done that the likelihood of me getting another expensive watch anytime soon is gone, exploded, destroyed! 
And damnit, mlcor, I'm trying to wear some of my other ones, stop posting pictures of the VC!


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## m0c021

mlcor said:


> Here, this will help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We should have a GTG as in you come visit my area and let me try that beauty on 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TJMike

To each and every single one of you enablers, let me first say I hate you and thank you!!!

My wife is in Thailand for a work conference. My daughter woke up early this morning so looking for something to do we went on a little trip to the VC boutique. I tried on the white dial Overseas again and the weight seems considerably less than my GS (maybe wishful thinking). I have been wearing the GS exclusively since Tuesday and it has felt fine on my wrist even if I wear it for more than 6+ hours. So much so that the Overseas is back into play. Not helping matters was my daughter looking at the watch and saying "hen piaoliang" (very beautiful). This was the first time she has said "hen". 

Thus, at this stage, the Overseas and the 1815 Up/Down are vying neck-and-neck to be my next watch. The Overseas is considerably cheaper, more versatile, and I have an irrational want to own a VC , but I may well prefer the dial of the Up/Down. The Up/Down will blow away my max. watch price ceiling. Of course, I would assume if I buy the Up/Down from the same ALS boutique in a few years I would get a decent discount (I will ask when I repurchase the Saxonia). And I know the mall credit thing happens every year; that will mean a very decent amount of "free" spending money.

This thread is going to reach 100 pages, especially considering I am sure VC, ALS, or another company will release a watch that also catches my eye!


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## vkalia

Hehe, everytime @micor posts a photo of that Overseas, it tries to sneak back onto my list. 

Do you want both the Saxonia and the 1815 U/D? Or are you planning to flip the Saxonia when you get the 1815?


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## TJMike

The photos of the Overseas do not help at all. I was going to make a Godfather III joke; every time I am out... 

I like how you assume I will get the Up/Down  If I get the Up/Down I will also keep the Saxonia. I am not a flipper by nature and I assume the Saxonia will be intertwined with many memories. Moreover, if I was not 100% sure the Saxonia and I are a perfect fit I would not be buying it in the first place. And if I am in a financial position where I would need to flip the Saxonia to afford the Up/Down I have no business buying the Up/Down (been reading the watch vs. early retirement thread).

The more important question is if you get the Up/Down will you flip it down the road for the AC?


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> To each and every single one of you enablers, let me first say I hate you and thank you!!!
> 
> My wife is in Thailand for a work conference. My daughter woke up early this morning so looking for something to do we went on a little trip to the VC boutique. I tried on the white dial Overseas again and the weight seems considerably less than my GS (maybe wishful thinking). I have been wearing the GS exclusively since Tuesday and it has felt fine on my wrist even if I wear it for more than 6+ hours. So much so that the Overseas is back into play. Not helping matters was my daughter looking at the watch and saying "hen piaoliang" (very beautiful). This was the first time she has said "hen".
> 
> Thus, at this stage, the Overseas and the 1815 Up/Down are vying neck-and-neck to be my next watch. The Overseas is considerably cheaper, more versatile, and I have an irrational want to own a VC , but I may well prefer the dial of the Up/Down. The Up/Down will blow away my max. watch price ceiling. Of course, I would assume if I buy the Up/Down from the same ALS boutique in a few years I would get a decent discount (I will ask when I repurchase the Saxonia). And I know the mall credit thing happens every year; that will mean a very decent amount of "free" spending money.
> 
> This thread is going to reach 100 pages, especially considering I am sure VC, ALS, or another company will release a watch that also catches my eye!


He he. Just innocent little old me.

In all seriousness, though, if you are OK with the weight of the Overseas, and you are going to keep the Saxonia either way, let me make a case for it over the Up/Down (which of course could still be a goal down the road):

1. The U/D is more of a dress watch, and you already have a beauty.
2. The VC would give you a different brand as opposed to having two ALS (not that that's a bad thing!).
3. The VC is very versatile--bracelet plus leather plus rubber. You can wear it on the beach, in the water (if you dare), with a suit if you like, or with t-shirt and jeans.
4. The U/D is gold--beautiful, but softer than stainless steel, and therefore a little riskier as an every day watch.
5. Having three strap/bracelet choices can also help with changes in the weather.
6. You can always pick up the U/D down the road, using part of the money you "saved" by getting the VC.

Just sayin.'


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> He he. Just innocent little old me.
> 
> In all seriousness, though, if you are OK with the weight of the Overseas, and you are going to keep the Saxonia either way, let me make a case for it over the Up/Down (which of course could still be a goal down the road):
> 
> 1. The U/D is more of a dress watch, and you already have a beauty.
> 2. The VC would give you a different brand as opposed to having two ALS (not that that's a bad thing!).
> 3. The VC is very versatile--bracelet plus leather plus rubber. You can wear it on the beach, in the water (if you dare), with a suit if you like, or with t-shirt and jeans.
> 4. The U/D is gold--beautiful, but softer than stainless steel, and therefore a little riskier as an every day watch.
> 5. Having three strap/bracelet choices can also help with changes in the weather.
> 6. You can always pick up the U/D down the road, using part of the money you "saved" by getting the VC.
> 
> Just sayin.'


I agree with every point you make (although the Overseas would never ever go for a swim). If I am happy with its weight it will be my next purchase.

The biggest reason why I would get it over the Up/Down is the price of the latter. I cannot, at this stage, justify spending that much on a watch and also it is double the price of the Saxonia 35mm and Thin 37mm. I understand the Up/Down being more expensive, but in my mind double the price is excessive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## James Haury

NOMOS has a 36mm by 9mm auto movement dive watch .It was just introduced about a week ago at Baselworld.I think it qualifies as high end it's 4200 USD.


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## TJMike

James Haury said:


> NOMOS has a 36mm by 9mm auto movement dive watch .It was just introduced about a week ago at Baselworld.I think it qualifies as high end it's 4200 USD.


In this forum, Nomos would not qualify as high-end. Nevertheless, I do not care what is considered high-end or not. Although in saying that, while I like many Nomos designs, I do not like the aesthetics of any dive watches.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I agree with every point you make (although the Overseas would never ever go for a swim). If I am happy with its weight it will be my next purchase.
> 
> The biggest reason why I would get it over the Up/Down is the price of the latter. I cannot, at this stage, justify spending that much on a watch and also it is double the price of the Saxonia 35mm and Thin 37mm. I understand the Up/Down being more expensive, but in my mind double the price is excessive.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is indeed a lot of money, at the edge of my comfort zone, too. I'll probably just stick with this one:










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> It is indeed a lot of money, at the edge of my comfort zone, too. I'll probably just stick with this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You do have some fine watches. Is the GO in stainless steel? I would love it if ALS started to make some stainless steel watches.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> You do have some fine watches. Is the GO in stainless steel? I would love it if ALS started to make some stainless steel watches.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Yes, it's stainless steel. It's also 44mm (although it doesn't wear that big, the lugs are short), so if you have a smaller wrist it doesn't work as well. Mine is 7.25" so it works just fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Thanks. Yes, it's stainless steel. It's also 44mm (although it doesn't wear that big, the lugs are short), so if you have a smaller wrist it doesn't work as well. Mine is 7.25" so it works just fine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So slightly large for my wrist 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeepie

TJMike said:


> You do have some fine watches. Is the GO in stainless steel? I would love it if ALS started to make some stainless steel watches.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I read an article by one of the owners of ALS. They explained by far the most expensive part of their watch production was finishing, rather than raw materials. Therefore they would end up selling stainless steel and gold watches for approximately the same price. I believe I know how the market would decide as she implied.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

jeepie said:


> I read an article by one of the owners of ALS. They explained by far the most expensive part of their watch production was finishing, rather than raw materials. Therefore they would end up selling stainless steel and gold watches for approximately the same price. I believe I know how the market would decide as she implied.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for that info. I don't necessarily believe what the ALS owner claims, but interesting nevertheless.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> So slightly large for my wrist
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm fortunate to have a reasonably sized, flat wrist that can take a very wide variety of sized watches--anything up to 44mm or so is doable. Or given the size of my collection, maybe that's not such a good thing. ;-)


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## jeepie

Tj I have read the entire thread. I reckon you should get a dornblueth klassik. Steel, expensive, rare, perfectly sized at 38mm.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

jeepie said:


> Tj I have read the entire thread. I reckon you should get a dornblueth klassik. Steel, expensive, rare, perfectly sized at 38mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


First up, sorry that you read the entire thread! Second, thanks for the suggestion, I will check it out.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> I'm fortunate to have a reasonably sized, flat wrist that can take a very wide variety of sized watches--anything up to 44mm or so is doable. Or given the size of my collection, maybe that's not such a good thing. ;-)


Speaking about your watches, am I correct in noting you have an ochs and junior moon phase? If so, ho does it wear, large, small etc?


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Speaking about your watches, am I correct in noting you have an ochs and junior moon phase? If so, ho does it wear, large, small etc?


Yes, I do. It's kind of a trick question--the bezel is thin, so you would think it wears large, but the lugs are very short, so it really doesn't wear that big. Moreover, you can order 36, 39 or 42mm size case, so the only issue is deciding which would work best for you. During the customization phase, Beat should be able to give you his opinion on the best size for your wrist. I'm betting the 39mm would be the right choice. Here's a picture of the 42mm on my wrist:










You can see just how short the lugs are.

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## TJMike

Thanks for that. I could see myself, if I am happy with the three-watch rotation, buying something like that in a couple of years. It is a very interesting watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Thanks for that. I could see myself, if I am happy with the three-watch rotation, buying something like that in a couple of years. It is a very interesting watch.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is indeed. And supremely customizable. If you haven't gone to their website and played with their on line customizer, you should.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> It is indeed. And supremely customizable. If you haven't gone to their website and played with their on line customizer, you should.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh I had a lot of fun last night on their website.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> The more important question is if you get the Up/Down will you flip it down the road for the AC?


Ha, no. If I get U/D, I'll go a different route for the Annual Calendar.

My reason for asking if you were gonna flip the Saxons for the U/D is that in my mind, they both sort of play in the same sandlot, when it comes to use case, and it seems excessive to have both.

Did I mention Air Asia has flights to KL? Will PM you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Having more than two watches is excessive 

Two my mind, the Saxonia and Up/Down are great watches that I would wear in almost all occasions. The differences between the two are enough for me to contemplate getting both.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Of course, the price of the Up/Down compared to the Overseas is a big factor. I could easily see my self getting the Overseas, RO or some similar priced watch in 2-3 years and then buying an ochs and junior moonphase (or something similar) a couple years after that and be done with this expensive addition.

For whatever reason, five watches seems a perfect number for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> For whatever reason, five watches seems a perfect number for me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And for me, getting down to five watches would be an impossible task...


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> And for me, getting down to five watches would be an impossible task...


I guessed that. Speaking of your watches, what is the AP chrono you have? It is one of the only few watches where I think Arabic numerals look great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I guessed that. Speaking of your watches, what is the AP chrono you have? It is one of the only few watches where I think Arabic numerals look great.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's the Jules Audemars Chronograph, reference 26100R.OO.D088CR.01. No longer in production, I think, but there are a few out there in the gray market.


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## Perazzi-man

Be done w/ this addiction....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## TJMike

Perazzi-man said:


> Be done w/ this addiction....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I want this thread to end on 100 pages with me buying my fifth and final watch!


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> It's the Jules Audemars Chronograph, reference 26100R.OO.D088CR.01. No longer in production, I think, but there are a few out there in the gray market.


A damn fine watch. Indeed, your taste in watches may be better than vkalia. Then again, I do not believe you have a Lange in your collection


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> A damn fine watch. Indeed, your taste in watches may be better than vkalia. Then again, I do not believe you have a Lange in your collection


Thanks. Not sure my taste is better than anyone's, it's just mine. And you're right, I don't have a Lange, a glaring omission. But the closer I get to retirement, the less desire I have for any more dress watches...

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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Thanks. Not sure my taste is better than anyone's, it's just mine. And you're right, I don't have a Lange, a glaring omission. But the closer I get to retirement, the less desire I have for any more dress watches...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To a certain level we can judge if one person's tastes is better than another. For example, someone who enjoys wine is better than someone who enjoys human flesh.

Back on topic, so if Lange release a dive or sports watch you will be first in line? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> To a certain level we can judge if one person's tastes is better than another. For example, someone who enjoys wine is better than someone who enjoys human flesh.
> 
> Back on topic, so if Lange release a dive or sports watch you will be first in line?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe. But that seems quite unlikely.

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## TJMike

A salesperson at the Lange boutique is a connection with my wife on Wechat. The salesperson saw that my wife is overseas. She then sent my wife a message basically to make sure I will still re-buying the Saxonia this weekend.

I wonder whether I should make the salesperson sweat and then ask for a bigger discount 

It is tempting, but alas I am not an a$&hole. Well not when it comes to breaking a deal anyway...

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## James Haury

TJMike said:


> In this forum, Nomos would not qualify as high-end. Nevertheless, I do not care what is considered high-end or not. Although in saying that, while I like many Nomos designs, I do not like the aesthetics of any dive watches.-https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/36mm-wristshots-looking-get-nomos-36-a-4205946.html
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 This is not a usual dive watch.There is no external turning bezel to me it does not even look like one I will try to post a link-here is the ahoi.-https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/ahoi-hands-slimmed-down-nomos-diver-baselworld-2017-a-4169658.html


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## TJMike

James Haury said:


> This is not a usual dive watch.There is no external turning bezel to me it does not even look like one I will try to post a link-here is the ahoi.-https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/ahoi-hands-slimmed-down-nomos-diver-baselworld-2017-a-4169658.html


I stand corrected. That is a nice looking watch.

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## TJMike

Only three days to go.

This week I have been trying to formulate a watch-buying plan. Right now I feel very content with the outline:

2017: Saxonia
2019 or 2020: Either the VC Overseas or a Royal Oak (yes I know I have dismissed buying a RO previously, but the watch has been on my mind of late). I am looking forward to trying a RO on this weekend.
2024 or 2025: That can be anything from the one I don't get in 2019/2020, a Breguet, ochs and junior moonophase, Cartier Tank, 1815 Up/Down (or something else from ALS). However, if for whatever reason I do not get tge Overseas I could easily see myself buying something from VC (irrational want).

By 2025 I will be in my mid-50s and depending on my financial situation will most likely want to focus on maximizing my retirement savings (if this was the public forum I am sure I would get at least a few posters chiming in with something along the lines of "as you have to save for the watches you mentioned you should not be purchasing them, blah, blah, blah.")

I will see how the plan unfolds.


----------



## mlcor

Wow. I can't even plan a week ahead let alone five years. 

Here's a picture to help with your longer range plans. 










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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Wow. I can't even plan a week ahead let alone five years.
> 
> Here's a picture to help with your longer range plans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do like to plan. Of course when it comes to watches my plans change often

I do like when I mention a watch, you post a photo of it on your wrist 

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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I do like when I mention a watch, you post a photo of it on your wrist


Not when you mention Lange, though. :-(


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Not when you mention Lange, though. :-(


I need to do a better job pushing you towards a Lange!

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## vkalia

We must be twins separated at birth.

Only yesterday, i was revisiting my own plans (although to a much shorter horizon - my urge for quick gratification struggles with anything longer).

Plan 1 - the current plan: Lange now; Blancpain Mil Spec later
Plan 2 - something else now, Mil Spec at the end of this year and Lange in 2018

It all depends on whether there is something else I want right now - the Panera 682 would be the only candidate and it wont be out for quite a while. So Plan 1 still stands.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> We must be twins separated at birth.
> 
> Only yesterday, i was revisiting my own plans (although to a much shorter horizon - my urge for quick gratification struggles with anything longer).
> 
> Plan 1 - the current plan: Lange now; Blancpain Mil Spec later
> Plan 2 - something else now, Mil Spec at the end of this year and Lange in 2018
> 
> It all depends on whether there is something else I want right now - the Panera 682 would be the only candidate and it wont be out for quite a while. So Plan 1 still stands.


So what you are telling us is that we need to throw suggestions your way to cloud your thinking  In that vein, have you thought about a Grand Seiko? It will give you instant satisfaction now at a decent price, allow you to get the Mil-Spec this year (and it seems this is the top of your wish list), and you can get a Lange next year (whether the Up/Down, AC, or something new that debuts next year at SIHH).


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## vkalia

Noooooo. No more choices!

What i really want is one of those new Nomoses (Nomii?). I am going to KL tomorrow for the weekend and am debating if it would be considered excessive behavior to hop on a flight to Singapore on Saturday to pick one up. Maybe i can convince the missus she wants a Michelin-starred chicken rice meal.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Noooooo. No more choices!
> 
> What i really want is one of those new Nomoses (Nomii?). I am going to KL tomorrow for the weekend and am debating if it would be considered excessive behavior to hop on a flight to Singapore on Saturday to pick one up. Maybe i can convince the missus she wants a Michelin-starred chicken rice meal.


So you are going to get a Grand Seiko and a Nomos this weekend 

What Nomos?

And of course it is excessive behavior to go to Singapore for a chicken and rice meal when the best version of it is in Kuching!

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## mlcor

Given the rebranding that was announced at Baselworld, there will potentially be good deals coming on current stock of Grand Seikos. Just sayin'.


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## TJMike

Grand Seiko you say









And according to the Grand Seiko forum there is heavy discounting on the old models. Something to consider...

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## mlcor

Indeed.


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## TJMike

The snowflake is so lovely.

And damn your collection is so great.

Care to share a list of everything you have?


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## m0c021

Since we are all encouraging here, I figure I join in with mine.  gl mike 

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## vkalia

Yeah, let's see what you got, Micor. It'll help pass the time while we wait for our new watches.

(Grand Seikos look nice, but not for me. Never saw one that really floated my boat).


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> The snowflake is so lovely.
> 
> And damn your collection is so great.
> 
> Care to share a list of everything you have?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





vkalia said:


> Yeah, let's see what you got, Micor. It'll help pass the time while we wait for our new watches.
> 
> (Grand Seikos look nice, but not for me. Never saw one that really floated my boat).


Oh, dear. That would take a while--I've got a couple dozen although only around half a dozen or so of them would be considered "high end" in this forum. Then there's a bunch of "almost high end" ones, and a bunch of other mid-end ones.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Oh, dear. That would take a while--I've got a couple dozen although only around half a dozen or so of them would be considered "high end" in this forum. Then there's a bunch of "almost high end" ones, and a bunch of other mid-end ones.


Well we have the time 

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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Yeah, let's see what you got, Micor. It'll help pass the time while we wait for our new watches.
> 
> (Grand Seikos look nice, but not for me. Never saw one that really floated my boat).


So just a Nomos and chicken/rice this weekend, oh and maybe a Lange...

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## TJMike

m0c021 said:


> Since we are all encouraging here, I figure I join in with mine.  gl mike
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


That looks very good indeed.

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## vkalia

The RO, you say? Yeeeaaah. Definitely worth giving it another look. If the Overseas fits, so will the RO.


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## TJMike

If I buy RO it would most likely be a 37mm version. That certainly fits my wrist. 

Anyway, you going to Singapore to buy a Nomos? And are you definitely ordering a Lange this weekend?

And I really should be working rather than looking at watches!


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## vkalia

Nah, i think it will be stretching the tolerance of the better half if i convert this weekend of eating/drinking into a watch hunt. So no Nomos. And in any case, that was just working out to be an impatient purchase to bide time while i wait. 

I'll pretend to be a mature adult and do the sensible thing this time. 

Lange - yeah, most likely gonna order it tomorrow and get that out of the way.


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## TJMike

Do some housework, pay the bills, buy a Lange; all stuff just to get out of the way.

Speaking of impulsive buys, it will be interesting to see what my wife spends the mall points on. I told her if there is nothing you like, I can use them to get a quartz Cartier Tank for next-to-nothing  Actually, I suggested she buy a watch and she likes the Cartier name. She is certainly interested. I told her we can look at watches online to see if there is anything she likes. Her response was she would rather go into a store not knowing anything and see if anything catches her eye. In other words, she is slightly different than me


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Well we have the time
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I, on the other hand, am crazy busy at the moment. I'll see what I can do at some point...

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## mlcor

OK, had a break from the madness. This is most everything, including a fair number of mid-range and "almost but not quite high end" stuff. There are a few others that are low end fun pieces that are in a different box, and I was too lazy to snap a picture.

Main box:









Four that stay on winders:


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## TJMike

That is an absolutely amazing collection! Thank you for posting a photo. Your Patek is one of the few Patek's that I love the design of. Once again, thanks for the photo.


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> That is an absolutely amazing collection! Thank you for posting a photo. Your Patek is one of the few Patek's that I love the design of. Once again, thanks for the photo.


Thanks. I agree on the Patek--I really wanted at least one of each (VC, PP and AP), and had the most trouble finding a Patek I really liked before this one came out. The hobnail bezel Calatravas were too small for me, and a bit old fashioned although beautiful, the other Calatravas were kind of boring. The chronographs and calendars are crazy expensive, and actually I don't care for annual calendars anyway, too hard to read or too jumbled, mostly. The only other Patek I really like is the 5296.


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## cmann_97

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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Thanks. I agree on the Patek--I really wanted at least one of each (VC, PP and AP), and had the most trouble finding a Patek I really liked before this one came out. The hobnail bezel Calatravas were too small for me, and a bit old fashioned although beautiful, the other Calatravas were kind of boring. The chronographs and calendars are crazy expensive, and actually I don't care for annual calendars anyway, too hard to read or too jumbled, mostly. The only other Patek I really like is the 5296.


I toyed with the idea of getting a hobnail bezel Calatrava. However, as I was offered no discount and that I could not see myself wearing with casual clothes quickly ruled it out.

I don't know wether I like or dislike the 5296; it is different.


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## vkalia

Lovely stuff, @mlcor. Really varied and some really nice pieces there. Thanks for posting. 

Question - what is the bottom left watch? I know it, but I just can't place it. 


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## TJMike

@vkalia I expect an update as soon as you have bought the Lange. And if anything else's catches your eye 

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## ashbrock

Nice collection with a good variety! Sorry to divert the topic a bit, but I am considering buying the Zenith Elite Chronograph Classic. Have you been happy with the watch? I am a bit concerned with the 42 mm case size, as I also normally prefer more moderately sized watches.



mlcor said:


> OK, had a break from the madness. This is most everything, including a fair number of mid-range and "almost but not quite high end" stuff. There are a few others that are low end fun pieces that are in a different box, and I was too lazy to snap a picture.
> 
> Main box:
> 
> View attachment 11511778
> 
> 
> Four that stay on winders:
> 
> View attachment 11511794


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## TJMike

If you have read through the entire 36-page thread you will realize that there is no single topic. The Zenith is a good looking watch.


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## jeepie

mlcor said:


> OK, had a break from the madness. This is most everything, including a fair number of mid-range and "almost but not quite high end" stuff. There are a few others that are low end fun pieces that are in a different box, and I was too lazy to snap a picture.
> 
> Main box:
> 
> View attachment 11511778
> 
> 
> Four that stay on winders:
> 
> View attachment 11511794


Oh my.....Kudos. Just about every watch I've ever loved is in your watch box. The snoopy takes the biscuit  for icing on the cake. Nice to see the beautifully austere damasko top right. It just needs a Lange one for company 

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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> Lovely stuff, @mlcor. Really varied and some really nice pieces there. Thanks for posting.
> 
> Question - what is the bottom left watch? I know it, but I just can't place it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Bottom left of the box? Not surprised if you don't recognize it, it's a custom regulator made by a German watchmaker, Rainer Nienaber. The one on the bottom far right of the box is also a LE design of his.

if you mean bottom left of the winders, that's a JLC Master Hometime Aston Martin edition, not too many were made.


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## mlcor

ashbrock said:


> Nice collection with a good variety! Sorry to divert the topic a bit, but I am considering buying the Zenith Elite Chronograph Classic. Have you been happy with the watch? I am a bit concerned with the 42 mm case size, as I also normally prefer more moderately sized watches.


The Zenith is a lovely watch, the dial is beautiful, and of course it has the classic El Primero movement. I would say it wears exactly like a 42mm, neither larger or smaller. My wrist is pretty flat and 7.25", so it's not too big for me. Someone with a small wrist might find it too large and if yours is smaller I'd definitely recommend trying it on before buying.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> if you mean bottom left of the winders, that's a JLC Master Hometime Aston Martin edition, not too many were made.


And available at a decent price:

Jaeger LeCoultre Master Hometime Aston Martin Automatic Men's Watch Q162847N - Master Control - Master - Jaeger LeCoultre - Watches - Jomashop


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## Jazzmaster

Fantastic collection, mlcor.


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## mlcor

Jazzmaster said:


> Fantastic collection, mlcor.


Thank you, sir.

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## ashbrock

Thanks for the feedback. I am actually deciding between buying this and a JLC Master Ultra Thin small seconds in steel, which looks similar to your JLC hometime. I definitely agree with you on the El Primero history, but what is holding me back is the feeling that the watch case is too big for the movement (the two chrono dials quite close to center). The JLC at a similar price however seems a different league in terms of pedigree and finishing and I also see it gets more of your wrist time being on the winder. However it may be too dressy and not show as much character as the Zenith. What is your view, having experienced both watches? Thanks again!



mlcor said:


> The Zenith is a lovely watch, the dial is beautiful, and of course it has the classic El Primero movement. I would say it wears exactly like a 42mm, neither larger or smaller. My wrist is pretty flat and 7.25", so it's not too big for me. Someone with a small wrist might find it too large and if yours is smaller I'd definitely recommend trying it on before buying.


----------



## mlcor

ashbrock said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I am actually deciding between buying this and a JLC Master Ultra Thin small seconds in steel, which looks similar to your JLC hometime. I definitely agree with you on the El Primero history, but what is holding me back is the feeling that the watch case is too big for the movement (the two chrono dials quite close to center). The JLC at a similar price however seems a different league in terms of pedigree and finishing and I also see it gets more of your wrist time being on the winder. However it may be too dressy and not show as much character as the Zenith. What is your view, having experienced both watches? Thanks again!


Actually, the JLC doesn't get more wrist time, in fact, it mostly gets worn when I'm traveling overseas. It's on the winder because it doesn't have a quickset date (due to the travel time mechanism) and I'm lazy. 

In terms of the Zenith's size, I guess it's a matter of taste. I don't personally find the subdials too close to the center. Zenith recently released a smaller version of the watch, and I actually think the dial looks too cramped on it.

In terms of finishing, I think JLC and Zenith are pretty much equal at this level of their offerings. JLC is probably better at their very high end (think Duometre). If you're thinking pure dress watch, the MUT is thinner and will wear smaller for sure. My Master Hometime, because of the dual time movement, is pretty much identical in thickness to the Zenith (11.7mm vs. 11.8mm). My problem with the JLC MUT is that it leans towards sterility and I might get bored with it. That's why my conventional pure dress watch is the VC Traditionelle--it is (IMO) more visually interesting, with some subtly different colors on the dial.


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## TJMike

A day in Beijing II:

I re-bought the Saxonia today. Still happy with my purchase. I also tried on the Up/Down again. A lovely watch: even better than the Saxonia. However once again I could not justify the price. No Up/Down for me in the future.

Also went into VC; a total bust. No Overseas in stock and no men's traditionnelle. I wanted to try on the Overseas and then go to AP to try on the Royal Oak.

The Royal Oak 41mm is way too big for me. The 37mm fits well, but is arguably too small for such a style of watch. The 39mm dual time fits wonderfully well and I am a big fan of the dial.
https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/royal-oak/26124ST.OO.D018CR.01/

That is certainly under consideration for my next watch. I am hoping that to celebrate 25 years of the RO AP release more models with a 39mm dial.

As for the Mall points, through buying the Saxonia I received 19,000rmb (divide by 6.9 to convert to US dollars) to spend in the mall. Apart from LV, Chanel, and a couple of other places all other stores in the mall accepted the credit. My wife ended up buying a Tiffany Key she wanted with the points and some cash.

So she is happy, I am happy and the Mall does this promotion every April. As such there is a very good chance that my next watch will be bought there.

By then this thread will be well over 50 pages as I keep changing my mind on what I want!

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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> A day in Beijing II:
> 
> I re-bought the Saxonia today. Still happy with my purchase. I also tried on the Up/Down again. A lovely watch: even better than the Saxonia. However once again I could not justify the price. No Up/Down for me in the future.
> 
> Also went into VC; a total bust. No Overseas in stock and no men's traditionnelle. I wanted to try on the Overseas and then go to AP to try on the Royal Oak.
> 
> The Royal Oak 41mm is way too big for me. The 37mm fits well, but is arguably too small for such a style of watch. The 39mm dual time fits wonderfully well and I am a big fan of the dial.
> https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/watch-collection/royal-oak/26124ST.OO.D018CR.01/
> 
> That is certainly under consideration for my next watch. I am hoping that to celebrate 25 years of the RO AP release more models with a 39mm dial.
> 
> As for the Mall points, through buying the Saxonia I received 19,000rmb (divide by 6.9 to convert to US dollars) to spend in the mall. Apart from LV, Chanel, and a couple of other places all other stores in the mall accepted the credit. My wife ended up buying a Tiffany Key she wanted with the points and some cash.
> 
> So she is happy, I am happy and the Mall does this promotion every April. As such there is a very good chance that my next watch will be bought there.
> 
> By then this thread will be well over 50 pages as I keep changing my mind on what I want!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Excellent, but where are the pictures? 

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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Excellent, but where are the pictures?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Give me time


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## TJMike

I received some helpful advice from the salesperson. He told me not to swim or shower with my Saxonia. Such advice leads me to believe that someone bought a Lange from the Beijing boutique and decided to shower with it!


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## vkalia

Well, it has 30m WR, right? You should be able to go diving with it, if some people on WUS are to be believed!

(Incidentally, with my JLC Master Geo and its 50m WR, JLC's site says you can swim with it. I mean, which of us hasnt been at a coke-fuelled bash and needed to jump into the pool with our suit, dress shoes and dress watch on? JLC has us covered.)


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## TJMike

Jumping in a pool with a suit, dress shoes, and dress watch happens every Tuesday. I am glad that JLC says you can swim with the Master Geographic; why do you think I called first dibs on it?


----------



## ashbrock

Great insights, definitely something to thing about regarding the sterile character of the MUT excl moon. I am looking at it mainly because I want a classic no date dress watch and while the VC or ALS for that matter is definitely nicer, I cant personally justify paying 2-3x that for the JLC steel at the moment. However the Zenith could fit into a chrono category for me and not become redundant if I get a higher end piece in a few years. Last question - how does the Zenith fit under dress shirt cuffs? I will definitely go try it out as soon as I can.



mlcor said:


> Actually, the JLC doesn't get more wrist time, in fact, it mostly gets worn when I'm traveling overseas. It's on the winder because it doesn't have a quickset date (due to the travel time mechanism) and I'm lazy.
> 
> In terms of the Zenith's size, I guess it's a matter of taste. I don't personally find the subdials too close to the center. Zenith recently released a smaller version of the watch, and I actually think the dial looks too cramped on it.
> 
> In terms of finishing, I think JLC and Zenith are pretty much equal at this level of their offerings. JLC is probably better at their very high end (think Duometre). If you're thinking pure dress watch, the MUT is thinner and will wear smaller for sure. My Master Hometime, because of the dual time movement, is pretty much identical in thickness to the Zenith (11.7mm vs. 11.8mm). My problem with the JLC MUT is that it leans towards sterility and I might get bored with it. That's why my conventional pure dress watch is the VC Traditionelle--it is (IMO) more visually interesting, with some subtly different colors on the dial.


----------



## mlcor

ashbrock said:


> Great insights, definitely something to thing about regarding the sterile character of the MUT excl moon. I am looking at it mainly because I want a classic no date dress watch and while the VC or ALS for that matter is definitely nicer, I cant personally justify paying 2-3x that for the JLC steel at the moment. However the Zenith could fit into a chrono category for me and not become redundant if I get a higher end piece in a few years. Last question - how does the Zenith fit under dress shirt cuffs? I will definitely go try it out as soon as I can.


Happy to help. The Zenith fits under my conventional cuffs (not sure about French cuffs since I don't wear them). The deployant is a little bulky, but still isn't a problem.

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## TJMike

A new day and a clear head. if I am honest with myself I was trying to talk myself into loving the RO. They are lovely watches, but as with so many watches I am encountering, in the end not worth the price (in my mind). 

In contrast, laying in bed last night I was thinking with a discount and the mall credit, would the 1815 Up/Down be worth it? I could certainly be tempted (don't laugh). And I need to try on the Overseas with the blue dial again. Right now they and the tradtionnelle with the guilloche dial (but I need to see it in person) are the only watches I could justify spending stupid amounts of money on. 

Anyway I have a few years to ponder. And truth be told, I really enjoy such musings; it may not seem like it, but this new obsession with watches has been a great thing for my mind. Not to mention, I am very happy with my current collection


----------



## TJMike

BTW, the Lange Boutique had sales of 8.5 million rmb (over $1.2 million) on sales yesterday.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> BTW, the Lange Boutique had sales of 8.5 million rmb (over $1.2 million) on sales yesterday).


Great ghu. That's probably the reason why my 1815 U/D delivery has been pushed back a couple of months.

And i am doing something wrong with my life.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Great ghu. That's probably the reason why my 1815 U/D delivery has been pushed back a couple of months.
> 
> And i am doing something wrong with my life.


You are not the only one doing something wrong with your life!

The boutique was packed when I got there; had to wait about 15 mins. Walked past there another 4-5 times and there were always people in there.

Judging by the sales I would assume Lange will participate in the promotion in the future. Such enabling could lead me to the Up/Down. Damn them!


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## TJMike

And you should be happy with the delay; it will allow you to build up your watch fund.


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## vkalia

I've sent you a PM to intensify that Up/Down itch.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> I've sent you a PM to intensify that Up/Down itch.


You are indeed a great enabler!


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## TJMike

And here is a photo:









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## vkalia

Gorgeous!!

Are you starting a new thread for the next purchase, or do we continue this one? 


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Gorgeous!!
> 
> Are you starting a new thread for the next purchase, or do we continue this one?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks and we have to continue this one. This thread is only 39 pages (on page 9 I declared the VC Overseas is The watch; I do not want any other watches). It must reach at least 100 pages.

As for my next watch, you know the 1815 Up/Down and the VC Overseas are the front-runners. Two very different watches, but so desirable in their own way.

Oh, and check your PM.


----------



## jeepie

vkalia said:


> I've sent you a PM to intensify that Up/Down itch.


The whole point of my subscribing to this thread was, although I wasn't directly in the game, I could vicariously participate from the side lines! If photos of hte up down were involved I wanna see them


----------



## TJMike

jeepie said:


> The whole point of my subscribing to this thread was, although I wasn't directly in the game, I could vicariously participate from the side lines! If photos of hte up down were involved I wanna see them


There were no photos


----------



## vkalia

jeepie said:


> The whole point of my subscribing to this thread was, although I wasn't directly in the game, I could vicariously participate from the side lines! If photos of hte up down were involved I wanna see them


Sadly no pron shots of the watch. I was just trying to convince Mike to make 2017 a 2-Lange year. 

When I get the watch, I'll be putting the photos online here first thing, no worries.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Sadly no pron shots of the watch. I was just trying to convince Mike to make 2017 a 2-Lange year.
> 
> When I get the watch, I'll be putting the photos online here first thing, no worries.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And I was trying to convince vkalia that he should buy the 1815 Up/Down and Mil-Spec this year, and make 2018 a Lange Annual Calendar and Vacheron Constantin type of year.


----------



## TJMike

A VC Overseas at 37mm. A new contender emerges:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/vacheron-constantin-overseas-37mm


----------



## TJMike

If the Overseas 37mm was the exact same design as the 41mm there would be no more debate about my next watch. However, at this stage, I am mot that much of a fan of the 37mm design. I much prefer the 41mm dial. Sigh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Because I use this thread to shoot the breeze and post whatever is in my mind, here are my latest thoughts:

I do not need a high-end sports watch; my GS does that job already. If I am going to spend stupid amounts on a watch, I want it to be a gold dress watch. One of course with understated elegance. That is what I like and one that suits me best. In that regard my next watch will be either a VC Traditionnelle or the ALS 1815 Up/Down. The latter is dependent on getting it at a price point I am comfortable with. A potential wildcard is the VC Quai De L'ile in the just released blue dial. While not a gold dress watch it is still a VC and I do like the casual/formal design.

Feel free to laugh if I end up with a 41mm RO 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drhr

TJMike said:


> A VC Overseas at 37mm. A new contender emerges:
> 
> https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/vacheron-constantin-overseas-37mm


Hmmm, size is right but not sure about the sub dial layout. Looks like I'll stay with the 37 mm RO 15450 . . .


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Because I use this thread to shoot the breeze and post whatever is in my mind, here are my latest thoughts:
> 
> I do not need a high-end sports watch; my GS does that job already. If I am going to spend stupid amounts on a watch, I want it to be a gold dress watch. One of course with understated elegance. That is what I like and one that suits me best. In that regard my next watch will be either a VC Traditionnelle or the ALS 1815 Up/Down. The latter is dependent on getting it at a price point I am comfortable with. A potential wildcard is the VC Quai De L'ile in the just released blue dial. While not a gold dress watch it is still a VC and I do like the casual/formal design.
> 
> Feel free to laugh if I end up with a 41mm RO


Whoa whoa whoa - blue dialled Quai de L'ile? THAT has my attention.

Getting back to the VC vs RO: I know you've said you think the 41mm RO is too big for your wrist, and I am not arguing against - just noting as a point of conversation that i found the RO to be visually a bit smaller on the wrist than the VC. Go figure. But luckily for you, there are 39 and 37mm ROs, so i'm gonna hedge and allow the RO as a possibility. Speaking of: if you are going to check one out, try to do so when it is not mummy-wrapped in plastic.


----------



## vkalia

And haaaaave you seen this - a 37mm RO?


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Whoa whoa whoa - blue dialled Quai de L'ile? THAT has my attention.
> 
> Getting back to the VC vs RO: I know you've said you think the 41mm RO is too big for your wrist, and I am not arguing against - just noting as a point of conversation that i found the RO to be visually a bit smaller on the wrist than the VC. Go figure. But luckily for you, there are 39 and 37mm ROs, so i'm gonna hedge and allow the RO as a possibility. Speaking of: if you are going to check one out, try to do so when it is not mummy-wrapped in plastic.


Here is a link to the VC:


__
http://instagr.am/p/BS9YSgxhBbk/

The VC you were looking for...

I tried on both the 37mm RO and the 39mm dual time without the plastic. Lovely watches, I really like them, but for that kind of money I need to love a watch and be blown away.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

TJMike said:


> Here is a link to the VC:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BS9YSgxhBbk/
> 
> The VC you were looking for...


The photo of the blue dial Quai de L'ile has disappeared from VC's Instagram page. It seems someone jumped the gun and VC is not quite ready to publicize the new model.


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## TJMike

The first time is special:









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

That is certainly a gorgeous watch! Congrats again, Mike.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> That is certainly a gorgeous watch! Congrats again, Mike.


Thanks, mate. I am very happy with the purchase.

To me it is quite different from the Up/Down. The Saxonia is more elegant, while the Up/Down is more casual (while of course possessing immense charm and style). The 4mm difference helps in that regard on my small wrist. If I end up with the Up/Down it will be a perfect stablemate to the Saxonia.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> The first time is special:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks perfect on you. And per your other post, I agree--the Up/Down is the closest thing to a sports watch Lange makes.


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Looks perfect on you. And per your other post, I agree--the Up/Down is the closest thing to a sports watch Lange makes.


Thanks and, as you can probably guess, I am trying to talk myself into the Up/Down!


----------



## Spangles

TJMike said:


> TJMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to the VC:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BS9YSgxhBbk/
> 
> The VC you were looking for...
> 
> 
> 
> The photo of the blue dial Quai de L'ile has disappeared from VC's Instagram page. It seems someone jumped the gun and VC is not quite ready to publicize the new model.
Click to expand...

Puristpro has the pic, It's Very Nice.


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## TJMike

Spangles said:


> Puristpro has the pic, It's Very Nice.


That is where I originally saw the watch; it is very nice indeed.


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## TJMike

Wore the Saxonia out today. To my dismay I was very comfortable wearing it. This just intensified my desire for the Up/Down. Damn you Lange, damn you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Wore the Saxonia out today. To my dismay I was very comfortable wearing it. This just intensified my desire for the Up/Down. Damn you Lange, damn you!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So a Lange and an Overseas, right?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> So a Lange and an Overseas, right?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is just crazy talk!

Wearing the Saxonia made me once again realize how much I prefer such a style of watch (ironic given this thread's title). So my current thinking; a WG Up/Down (although the RG does look mighty fine and I could be swayed) in about two years and for my "final" watch a RG VC Traditionnelle of some kind assuming they still are 38mm.


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## TJMike

I just saw that this thread has been viewed over 10,000 times, sure 9,000+ views are just from me, but still... Thanks to everyone for making me realize that I do not want a high-end sports swatch. Anyway, my GS does that job wonderfully well (and whether GS is high-end, mid-end etc etc really does not bother me).

I have been thinking about the Lange Annual Calendar; I am not a fan of the cut-off numbers and I have no idea about the legibility of the dial, but it is one mighty fine watch. Of course, I would need quite a bit more in my bank account to splurge on such a watch. I am going to stretch it enough through purchasing the Up/Down, blow away my max. watch price ceiling, and make a mockery of how I could not see it being double the price of the Saxonia. Though if this thread has taught me anything, when it comes to watches everything is in a state of flux.

@vkalia if your AD has the AC in stock when you pick up the Up/Down, please take many photos of the AC, give your impressions of it, and feel free to purchase the AC also...


----------



## jeepie

TJMike said:


> Because I use this thread to shoot the breeze and post whatever is in my mind, here are my latest thoughts:
> 
> I do not need a high-end sports watch; my GS does that job already. If I am going to spend stupid amounts on a watch, I want it to be a gold dress watch. One of course with understated elegance. That is what I like and one that suits me best. In that regard my next watch will be either a VC Traditionnelle or the ALS 1815 Up/Down. The latter is dependent on getting it at a price point I am comfortable with. A potential wildcard is the VC Quai De L'ile in the just released blue dial. While not a gold dress watch it is still a VC and I do like the casual/formal design.
> 
> Feel free to laugh if I end up with a 41mm RO
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have you looked at the jlc sector dial master control watches?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeepie

jeepie said:


> Have you looked at the jlc sector dial master control watches?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeepie

jeepie said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For me the definitive casual formal watch

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

It is a very nice watch. Indeed I am a fan of JLC. However, as with many other watches, while I admire the beauty I could not spend any money on it.


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## vkalia

I am actually at peace with my decision to skip the Lange AC. 

It is gorgeous watch, true - but for me, the U/D will get far more wrist time. 

I may get a Perpetual or Annual Calendar at some point. Not sure yet. 

For now, my 2018 candidates are the 37mm VC Overseas. 

I mean, I am not thinking that far ahead. I haven't gotten my Lange yet, I have my next watch after that already in order. What kind of crazy would be planning the purchase after that already???


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## TJMike

Very disappointing I can't mess with your mind over the AC. 

Will the Overseas see any time on your wrist or will your better half monopolize it?

It is indeed very crazy planning two or three purchases ahead. However, crazy attracts crazy; my long-term crazy planning is obviously having an affect on you!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Something I did not realize is that the Up/Down is available in yellow gold. I actually saw it at the boutique last week, but did not realize it was yellow gold.

The only downside is that the strap is light brown. I think it would look damn good on a black strap. Then again I am a big fan of yellow gold watches with black straps.

However it is not listed on the ALS website so it may be a discontinued model.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

jeepie said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


JLC is a terrific brand but I don't care for the hands, nor for the way the date window impinges on the track. I prefer the real thing (although admittedly far more expensive).










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drhr

TJMike said:


> Something I did not realize is that the Up/Down is available in yellow gold. I actually saw it at the boutique last week, but did not realize it was yellow gold.
> 
> The only downside is that the strap is light brown. I think it would look damn good on a black strap. Then again I am a big fan of yellow gold watches with black straps.
> 
> However it is not listed on the ALS website so it may be a discontinued model.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Prolly one of the older, smaller 1815's. Can't go wrong with any model, any strap color imo . . .


----------



## TJMike

Doing some reading, yellow gold was an option for the Up/Down when it was redesigned back in 2013 (39mm model).

Now only white gold and rose gold are listed on the website. But I am certain I saw the yellow gold 39mm at the Beijing boutique last weekend.

Anyway, you are indeed right about can't going wrong with any model. Of course, the moon phase one you own is particularly stunning!

Here is a link that clearly states the Up/Down was available in yellow gold:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/h...-updown-full-specs-live-pics-official-pricing


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## vkalia

I've seen the Up/Down in yellow gold in Hong Kong, so they were in production until not too long ago, anyway. 


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## TJMike

We will see whether they are still available when I am ready to buy.

Oh, and good morning all.


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## RangerUp

Hey Mike,

This is a long thread and I haven't read through it, but one watch I can recommend (if you don't mind going pre-owned) is the APRO 14790 and it's variants. 

There is just about every option you can think of and the size would be perfect for you at about 36mm. You have options of just about every dial color AP produced for the RO; military dial; day/date w/ moon phase; annual calendar; dual time; TT; solid gold, etc...

I'm pretty sure they all have the JLC 889 movement with modules for the versions with complications. The bracelet is thinner than the modern ROs, including the 15202, so it feels and wears more like a dress watch. 

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw it out there. Good luck!

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Thanks for the suggestion. It is a lovely watch and my fellow small-wrist comrades should consider it.

As for me, in the end I realized I did not want a high-end sports watch. I ended up purchasing an ALS Saxonia 35mm and have pretty much decided on my next watch; an 1815 Up/Down.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. It is a lovely watch and my fellow small-wrist comrades should consider it.
> 
> As for me, in the end I realized I did not want a high-end sports watch. I ended up purchasing an ALS Saxonia 35mm and *have pretty much decided on my next watch*; an 1815 Up/Down.


Yeah right. Sez you.

Hands up everyone who thinks this is a final decision.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Yeah right. Sez you.
> 
> Hands up everyone who thinks this is a final decision.


That is harsh, but fair.

Unless Lange or VC come out with something new in the next couple of years that I have to have, the Up/Down will be my next watch. The only other caveat is if I can't get it at a price point I am comfortable with. And that is dependent on a certain enabler 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RangerUp

Congrats on the Saxonia. 

If ALS watches speak to you, go for it! The 1815 Up/Down is is beautiful. 

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Thanks. While I was not planning on owning two watches by the same brand the Up/Down is indeed speaking to me.


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## vkalia

Look at it this way - having 2 watches by Lange puts you well on the road to become a true collector (specializing in Lange, in this case). Datograph, Zeitwerk, Terra Luna.... the world is your oyster.

You may not even need money - just nice running shoes and a dedicated training regimen.


----------



## TJMike

Nice running shoes and a dedicated training regime are much, much, much more likely than owning those watches.

Indeed, out of those you mentioned the only one I would own if my watch budget was 100x it currently is would be the Terra Luna. And even then I would just look at the back of the watch.


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## ar7iste

TJMike said:


> Thanks. While I was not planning on owning two watches by the same brand the Up/Down is indeed speaking to me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While reading this thread, I realized how much you messed with my mind. Now I'm seriously considering a 1815 up/down for next year as an engagement present to myself (I had $20K saved for a JLC universal time in rose gold originally).

But seriously, have you even tried on the 2016 Blue dial VC Overseas ? It might change your view on a "sports watch". Just saying...
We won't stop this until you get a real sports watch, the title said you wanted one, you WILL want one one day. You know it, deep inside, you know the truth.


----------



## TJMike

ar7iste said:


> While reading this thread, I realized how much you messed with my mind. Now I'm seriously considering a 1815 up/down for next year as an engagement present to myself (I had $20K saved for a JLC universal time in rose gold originally).
> 
> But seriously, have you even tried on the 2016 Blue dial VC Overseas ? It might change your view on a "sports watch". Just saying...
> We won't stop this until you get a real sports watch, the title said you wanted one, you WILL want one one day. You know it, deep inside, you know the truth.


Congratulations on your engagement.

Have I tried on the 2016 Blue dial VC Overseas? From page 5 of this thread: "I tried on the Overseas today. The watch completely blew me away. It was so damn breathtaking. And to cap it off, it fit like a charm. I love the watch so much that I am buying it. There will be no Breguet dress watch for me for the foreseeable future. Indeed, there will be no other watch for the foreseeable future. The Overseas completes my collection."

I was planning on buying it the following week, but it got sold in the meantime and there was not another one in the country. While I was waiting for the store to get another one (BTW, the store has yet to call me), I decided I needed a dress watch first. This led me to buying the Saxonia. I also realized that as much as I love the dial, the Overseas at 41 mm is slightly too chunky and heavy for my wrist. I further realized I love dress watches and my Grand Seiko GMT is my high-end sports watch. If the new Overseas 37mm has the same dial as the 41mm I would probably get the over the Up/Down. But alas I do not like the dial of the 37mm; well not enough to spend a stupid amount of money on.

The truth will set you free and the truth is another sports watch is not in my future.

Oh, while it is a matter of personal taste, for that kind of money the Up/Down is a much better choice that the JLC universal time. The Up/Down is naturally a gold watch, while it is an add-on for the JLC.


----------



## ar7iste

Oh I got lost in those 43 pages and all the watches you bought in the meantime, sorry 
Thanks for the recap, and the engagement should happen some time this summer/autumn now that I have the ring thing done.

I could not agree more on the 37mm Overseas, it doesn't sing as much as the 41mm dial does. I won't try anymore to change your mind to a sportier beauty than the up/down. I just thought the Overseas and the RO have something different than most watches, just like the Nautilus, they play in the sport category but really they just highlight that cases play a big part in a watch.

Hopefully we'll see some pictures of the Up/Down when you pull the trigger, and that it will pull me in the right direction. The JLC has a very well done world time complication, and the dial of the gold version is stunning.


Anyway, curious to see how things turn out for your up/down now, the waiting game begins for us.


----------



## TJMike

All the watches I bought?! There was only one; the Saxonia 35mm. Anyway, no need to say sorry for getting lost in this thread. Indeed, if this thread has shown me anything, when it comes to watches I am lost in my own mind.

I will not be getting the Up/Down until 2019. My watch budget declined quite a bit with the Saxonia.

However @vkalia will be getting the Up/Down in a couple of months. He will be posting photos once it is in his possession.


----------



## vkalia

ar7iste said:


> The JLC has a very well done world time complication, and the dial of the gold version is stunning.


That is very true. After seeing the gold one, the steel version seemed very dull by comparison. That is a stunner - just a bit too thick/large for me, sadly.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> That is very true. After seeing the gold one, the steel version seemed very dull by comparison. That is a stunner - just a bit too thick/large for me, sadly.


I have never seen the gold version. I like the steel version, but I never tried it on. I know it it is too big for me!

Watches too big for me has sadly been a theme for this thread


----------



## TJMike

Because I wanted to cause @vkalia a little bit of misery as he still has to wait for his Lange, I decided to wear my Saxonia today. 

Before I bought it I was concerned whether I would feel comfortable wearing it. Well I was wearing an old t-shirt and jeans, and playing in a ball-pit with my daughter at a mall when I realized, "oh, I probably should be more careful as I am wearing a $15,000 watch"; it is safe to say I am comfortably wearing the Saxonia.

My other concern, considering how indecisive I was about what watch I truly wanted, was I would not be satisfied and want another watch ASAP. After buying my Grand Seiko (a watch I love) in late December almost immediately my thoughts turned to other watches. Alas for my watch collection I am happy with what I have. I have no desire for another watch in the near future. I still plan to buy the 1815 Up/Down in approximately 1 year and 11 months and I really look forward to it (I am sure vkalia will post photos of it at every opportunity to tempt me to get it sooner ). However, there will not be another watch until that time. I am content.


----------



## vkalia

Jokes apart, awesome to know the watch has worked out for you so well. 

And yes, it does make me even more impatient for mine to arrive!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Jokes apart, awesome to know the watch has worked out for you so well.
> 
> And yes, it does make me even more impatient for mine to arrive!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!

With the arrival of the Up/Down will it become your number 1 watch and lead the Royal Oak and JLC to tumble down the pecking order?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I still plan to buy the 1815 Up/Down in approximately 1 year and 11 months...


Can't you be more precise with your planning? 

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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Thanks!
> 
> With the arrival of the Up/Down will it become your number 1 watch and lead the Royal Oak and JLC to tumble down the pecking order?


I see it sharing honours with the RO and the Panerai, actually, with each being #1 in their respective use cases.

It's a new month tomorrow. July, right?

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## vkalia

mlcor said:


> Can't you be more precise with your planning?


It's the Schrodinger's Watch concepts- he can be precise either about what he wants to buy or when. 

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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> It's the Schrodinger's Watch concepts- he can be precise either about what he wants to buy or when.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is the way I justify having so many watches--when they are in their box and the drawer is closed, who's to say any of them actually exist? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> I see it sharing honours with the RO and the Panerai, actually, with each being #1 in their respective use cases.
> 
> It's a new month tomorrow. July, right?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not long now. Now the wait for the Mil-Spec...


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> Can't you be more precise with your planning?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually I can; I have narrowed it down to a couple of days. I do like to plan


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> It's the Schrodinger's Watch concepts- he can be precise either about what he wants to buy or when.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was waiting to see when this thread would turn metaphysical.

Anyway I will get the Up/Down in April 2019 even if I cannot afford it and/or want a different watch, or indeed do not want another watch at all. Why would I do such a thing? Spite! 

Probably my favorite bit of writing:
"I am a sick man. . . . I am a spiteful man. I am an unattractive man. I believe my liver is diseased. However, I know nothing at all about my disease, and do not know for certain what ails me. I don't consult a doctor for it, and never have, though I have a respect for medicine and doctors. Besides, I am extremely superstitious, sufficiently so to respect medicine, anyway (I am well-educated enough not to be superstitious, but I am superstitious). No, I refuse to consult a doctor from spite. That you probably will not understand. Well, I understand it, though. Of course, I can't explain who it is precisely that I am mortifying in this case by my spite: I am perfectly well aware that I cannot "pay out" the doctors by not consulting them; I know better than anyone that by all this I am only injuring myself and no one else. But still, if I don't consult a doctor it is from spite. My liver is bad, well - let it get worse!"


----------



## lxxrr

AP 15300


----------



## lxxrr

On 6.5 wrist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## adnjoo

How about the Vacheron Overseas 42042 or the Blancpain Aqualung 2000? They are both well sized for smaller wrists imo.


----------



## TJMike

All great suggestions.


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## vkalia

Our discussion on the WRUW thread is probably better continued here: Have you looked into the rose gold Yachtmaster, btw? Potential candidate for you as well?

(Backstory for anyone else following this: I recently got a Ventus Mori brass diver b/c I liked that YM aesthetic but wanted it in a tool watch. And now the seeds of the YM have been planted in my head).










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## TJMike

Don't you mean a potential candidate for you? And when is your consolidation happening?

As for me, there is maybe nothing I like about the Yachtmaster. I am serious. The Ventus is aesthetically for me a much better watch.


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## TJMike

I see this thread has now be viewed over 11,000 times. It does make me laugh that a simple question asking about a sports watch for a small wrist has turned into this mega-thread.


----------



## TJMike

Real men wear pink and gold 










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## m0c021

Real (hairy) men that is  Wear in good health. It's a keeper!



TJMike said:


> Real men wear pink and gold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Well to afford the Saxonia I had to eliminate razors etc. My beard is now down to my knees 

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## ar7iste

Hi all, figured I'd share my recent experience here instead of creating a new thread.

I had an hour and a half to kill in Paris yesterday while waiting for my SO, so I decided to try some "sport watches". Went in Bucherer (they have pretty much all the brands except PP), and since my wrists are pretty small at 6.7 inches (17cm), I asked the salesperson some advice. For some reason, it made me think of this thread.

Anyway, I tried on the Breguet Marine. Super beautiful and versatile, but what were they thinking when they designed the oversized lugs? It was impossible for the watch to sit properly on my small wrists. I wanted to love it really bad, but ended up being disappointed. Then I tried the AP 15450, which looked way too small, the 15400 (41mm) looked much better, and the dial is stunning. I was about to ask if I could see the 1815 up/down, but she wanted me to try soemthing else, so I followed her.

We went to the Piaget part of the store, and before I knew what was happening, she put a blue Polo S around my wrists. Thing is, I never gave any consideration to the Polo S before, because I only knew Piaget for their extra flat calibers. But the thing was absolutely gorgeous on the wrist, and the dial sang to me. I had to ask the salesperson though on the controversial aspect of the watch, and said "Why did Piaget release a watch with a design so close to the aquanaut (for the bezel) and the nautilus (for the dial)?". She smiled and took me to the window display where all the Emperador models of Piaget were showing off, and explained that Piaget had the "Tonneau" design for a really long time and the new Polo S has 100% Piaget DNA. I dunno how it sounds once it's written here, but it was pretty convincing back in the store, and I looked at the watch in a different way afterwards.

For anyone out there looking for a sports watch, I would definitely recommend trying it on, and the price is a steal for the quality of finish of the case and dial that you get (and it has 100M WR). If interested, I can post pictures tonight when I come back home. However, I also tried the white dial Polo S, and it did nothing to me, it was blend and lifeless, the blue dial is the way to go.


----------



## TJMike

Thanks for your post. Please post the photos. And hopefully you got to try on the Up/Down!

Edit: an hour and half to do what you like in Paris sounds great. I love that city.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## plastique999

Didn't read all 20+ pages but in the spirit of the topic, I ended up with an AP 15707CE. Loving it!









Sent from my Zeitwerk


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## TJMike

plastique999 said:


> Didn't read all 20+ pages but in the spirit of the topic, I ended up with an AP 15707CE. Loving it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Zeitwerk


20+ pages?! How dare you insult my indecisiveness?  Try 46+ pages. I ended up with an ALS Saxonia with my next purchase most likely being an 1815 Up/Down. Oh, you have one hell of a collection.


----------



## ar7iste

plastique999 said:


> Didn't read all 20+ pages but in the spirit of the topic, I ended up with an AP 15707CE. Loving it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Zeitwerk


Really, you need to update your signature. We know that you have at least a Zeitwerk, an AP RO Skeleton, and now this!
Also, what's with the Jim Beam? Not a fan of Johnnie Walker?


----------



## plastique999

TJMike said:


> 20+ pages?! How dare you insult my indecisiveness?  Try 46+ pages. I ended up with an ALS Saxonia with my next purchase most likely being an 1815 Up/Down. Oh, you have one hell of a collection.


Haha thanks!
Yea I'm not accustomed to reading novels on WUS. You picked some great watches! But you should start another thread on dress watches LOL



ar7iste said:


> Really, you need to update your signature. We know that you have at least a Zeitwerk, an AP RO Skeleton, and now this!
> Also, what's with the Jim Beam? Not a fan of Johnnie Walker?


Ha ha too funny yes I hate Jim Beam. Do love Johnny Walker blue! But I was running errands in the supermarket and just shot a quick pic. 
Yes haven't been on WUS in a while, I need to update my sig. 
Although I do have my one thread entitled "chronicles of a novice watch collector"

Sent from my Zeitwerk


----------



## ar7iste

TJMike said:


> Thanks for your post. Please post the photos. And hopefully you got to try on the Up/Down!
> 
> Edit: an hour and half to do what you like in Paris sounds great. I love that city.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, Paris is a fantastic city, and they have all the boutiques here 

Attached are the pictures, the Piaget definitely wins this battle.


----------



## TJMike

plastique999 said:


> Haha thanks!
> Yea I'm not accustomed to reading novels on WUS. You picked some great watches! But you should start another thread on dress watches LOL
> 
> Sent from my Zeitwerk


Thanks; loving the Saxonia.

If I started a thread on dress watches I would end up with a sports watch!


----------



## plastique999

TJMike said:


> Thanks; loving the Saxonia.
> 
> If I started a thread on dress watches I would end up with a sports watch!


Exactly my point...the disease is cunning 

Sent from my Zeitwerk


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## vkalia

I agree re the Piaget Polo S. It really *is* a gorgeous watch.

And on the wrist, while the similarities to the Nautilus are there, an experienced watch nerd (someone who knows enough to recognize a Nautilus) will see enough differences as well.


----------



## ar7iste

vkalia said:


> I agree re the Piaget Polo S. It really *is* a gorgeous watch.
> 
> And on the wrist, while the similarities to the Nautilus are there, an experienced watch nerd (someone who knows enough to recognize a Nautilus) will see enough differences as well.


Agreed.

What's your opinion on the Breguet Marine? I see that you own one, how does it sit on your wrist, and how comfortable is the strap for daily use?
It seemed thick and I was unsure about fitting it under tight cuffs.


----------



## mlcor

ar7iste said:


> Hi all, figured I'd share my recent experience here instead of creating a new thread.
> 
> I had an hour and a half to kill in Paris yesterday while waiting for my SO, so I decided to try some "sport watches". Went in Bucherer (they have pretty much all the brands except PP), and since my wrists are pretty small at 6.7 inches (17cm), I asked the salesperson some advice. For some reason, it made me think of this thread.
> 
> Anyway, I tried on the Breguet Marine. Super beautiful and versatile, but what were they thinking when they designed the oversized lugs? It was impossible for the watch to sit properly on my small wrists. I wanted to love it really bad, but ended up being disappointed. Then I tried the AP 15450, which looked way too small, the 15400 (41mm) looked much better, and the dial is stunning. I was about to ask if I could see the 1815 up/down, but she wanted me to try soemthing else, so I followed her.
> 
> We went to the Piaget part of the store, and before I knew what was happening, she put a blue Polo S around my wrists. Thing is, I never gave any consideration to the Polo S before, because I only knew Piaget for their extra flat calibers. But the thing was absolutely gorgeous on the wrist, and the dial sang to me. I had to ask the salesperson though on the controversial aspect of the watch, and said "Why did Piaget release a watch with a design so close to the aquanaut (for the bezel) and the nautilus (for the dial)?". She smiled and took me to the window display where all the Emperador models of Piaget were showing off, and explained that Piaget had the "Tonneau" design for a really long time and the new Polo S has 100% Piaget DNA. I dunno how it sounds once it's written here, but it was pretty convincing back in the store, and I looked at the watch in a different way afterwards.
> 
> For anyone out there looking for a sports watch, I would definitely recommend trying it on, and the price is a steal for the quality of finish of the case and dial that you get (and it has 100M WR). If interested, I can post pictures tonight when I come back home. However, I also tried the white dial Polo S, and it did nothing to me, it was blend and lifeless, the blue dial is the way to go.


Glad you found the right watch for you. Personally I don't care for the Polo, but I'm an outlier who also doesn't care for the Nautilus. My favorite Piaget piece is the Altiplano chronograph, a lovely piece that I tried on once in Singapore.










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## vkalia

ar7iste said:


> Agreed.
> 
> What's your opinion on the Breguet Marine? I see that you own one, how does it sit on your wrist, and how comfortable is the strap for daily use?
> It seemed thick and I was unsure about fitting it under tight cuffs.


It is thickish, yeah, but I dont have any issues fitting it under a shirt sleeve (I do have my right cuff made a bit larger, though).

And the only downside - the old-style bracelet doesn't have micro adjustments and I am between links in sizing. Dunno if they new bracelet is better - I prefer the looks of the old style one.

Other than that - I love the watch. I've written paeans about it, but it does a fantastic job of combining sporty and smart, so it pairs well with whatever clothes you match it with. That's very hard to pull off - only Breguet and Cartier pull it off so well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> It is thickish, yeah, but I dont have any issues fitting it under a short sleeve (I do have my right cuff made a bit larger, though).
> 
> And the only downside - the old-style bracelet doesn't have micro adjustments and I am between links in sizing. Dunno if they new bracelet is better - I prefer the looks of the old style one.
> 
> Other than that - I love the watch. I've written paeans about it, but it does a fantastic job of combining sporty and smart, so it pairs well with whatever clothes you match it with. That's very hard to pull off - only Breguet and Cartier pull it off so well.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The bracelet also de-accentuates the lugs, as they blend into the bracelet. I have no trouble fitting mine under a conventional shirt cuff. My wrist is bigger, though, at 7.25", so most watches that are 44mm or less fit me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

^^^. Good point about the bracelet. I got a rubber strap for mine a few weeks ago - this reminds me, let me swap it over now. Will post an update soon. 

Re comfort - other than the slightly loose bracelet, it is fine. Sits great on my wrist. 


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## m0c021

I think we have been spoiled with "high end" watches when we call the Breguet marine "thick". It is 11.82mm thick and wears quite thin if the lugs aren't an issue. I love that my AP is 9.4mm but I would still consider my Omega AT 13mm thickness to be average. The Breguet, although only about 1.2mm thinner, felt considerably more thin than the Omega AT. A lot of quartz watches are still around 11mm or so, which is similar to the Breguet. I just don't think we can call an automatic watch thick when it is around the same thickness as a quartz.


Even though I am not a fan of the Piaget Polo S at all in pictures, I reserve my final judgement. I always loved the dial of the Royal Oak but thought the bezel was hideous and vowed to never get one. Then I saw it in person and my opinion completely changed. The same could happen for the Polo S as watches can be quite different in the metal.


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## vkalia

Well, the update.

In addition to the lack of fine adjustments to length, Breguet's old bracelet lacks the precision of AP. And their deployant also isn't as precisely made - it doesn't click in as smoothly and requires a lot of force. Let's see if it gets better with time.

I am not that wild about the rubber strap. It makes the watch look more casual, true. The lugs are prominent but on my 6.75" wrist, they don't jut out (the perspective in the photo below is exaggerated). I find the smaller dial and bold lugs to be very much a part of the watch's unique design language.

What I don't like - the fact that I have to have the rubber strap at its last hole and there is a fair bit of strap floating around. I much prefer Cartier's design solution where the extra length goes on the underside - it makes for a much cleaner solution.

Well, I have it on rubber so am gonna give it a go for a while.










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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> And their deployant also isn't as precisely made - it doesn't click in as smoothly and requires a lot of force. Let's see if it gets better with time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're gonna thank me for this one. There is a trick to the deployant that I figured out. If you try to press on it right near the joint, it is difficult to click in. Instead, move your finger so it's half an inch or so away from the center joint of the bracelet, then press. It should click in effortlessly.


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## TJMike

@vkalia Is the Marine strap an official Breguet one? When I tried on the Marine I had to have the strap on the last hole. I agree the extra strap floating around is not a good look.

Regarding thickness, in my journey to find a watch I have come to realize I do not want another watch that is more than 10mm thick; one is enough. I much prefer thin watches; the aesthetic is much more appealing to me.


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## vkalia

mlcor said:


> You're gonna thank me for this one. There is a trick to the deployant that I figured out. If you try to press on it right near the joint, it is difficult to click in. Instead, move your finger so it's half an inch or so away from the center joint of the bracelet, then press. It should click in effortlessly.


Thanks for that!

I know that trick with the bracelet - the shop where I got it showed it to me. I had tried the same thing with the deployant but it didn't seem to work as well.

Now that I know the deployant works the same way, I'll keep looking till I can find its G spot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> @vkalia Is the Marine strap an official Breguet one? When I tried on the Marine I had to have the strap on the last hole. I agree the extra strap floating around is not a good look.
> 
> Regarding thickness, in my journey to find a watch I have come to realize I do not want another watch that is more than 10mm thick; one is enough. I much prefer thin watches; the aesthetic is much more appealing to me.


Yep, the original one. After I decided to skip the Overseas, I realised I did want a nice sports watch on rubber, so I even splurge on the Breguet deployant (normally, i just get an aftermarket one).

The thickness doesn't bother me too much, but I am coming from larger sports watches ( Panerai, Sinn, etc).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Yep, the original one. After I decided to skip the Overseas, I realised I did want a nice sports watch on rubber, so I even splurge on the Breguet deployant (normally, i just get an aftermarket one).
> 
> The thickness doesn't bother me too much, but I am coming from larger sports watches ( Panerai, Sinn, etc).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting considering the difference in our wrist sizes that we both used the last hole.

Thicker watches did not bother me (my GS is 13+mm) until I started trying on dress watches. Thinner watches, at least in my mind, look so much better on me. Another thing to blame Lange for 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeepie

vkalia said:


> Other than that - only Breguet and Cartier pull it off so well.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lots of scrutiny of Breguet in this thread. As you know sometime back I read the whole thread, but have we talked about Cartier? I love the drive for example.


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## TJMike

jeepie said:


> Lots of scrutiny of Breguet in this thread. As you know sometime back I read the whole thread, but have we talked about Cartier? I love the drive for example.


I like Cartier and have tried on numerous models. However, for me there is always something holding me back from buying. While never say never, I think I will always admire Cartier, but never buy one of their watches.


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## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Thicker watches did not bother me (my GS is 13+mm) until I started trying on dress watches. Thinner watches, at least in my mind, look so much better on me. Another thing to blame Lange for


My thinner watches have certainly made me more aware of big/thick watches but not to such a degree.

Or rather, I still prefer my sportier watches to be larger (hence the 15400 over the 15202) and have more wrist presence. It's just the limits of this "larger" have shrunk a little.

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## TJMike

Speaking of AP, I just read that prices are increasing by 3 percent on June 1.

Edit: As for thicker watches, I tried on the Marine on the same day as I bought the Saxonia (and tried on the Up/Down). While the Lange's seemed perfect (duh) the Marine felt bulky.

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## ar7iste

m0c021 said:


> I think we have been spoiled with "high end" watches when we call the Breguet marine "thick". It is 11.82mm thick and wears quite thin if the lugs aren't an issue. I love that my AP is 9.4mm but I would still consider my Omega AT 13mm thickness to be average. The Breguet, although only about 1.2mm thinner, felt considerably more thin than the Omega AT. A lot of quartz watches are still around 11mm or so, which is similar to the Breguet. I just don't think we can call an automatic watch thick when it is around the same thickness as a quartz.
> 
> Even though I am not a fan of the Piaget Polo S at all in pictures, I reserve my final judgement. I always loved the dial of the Royal Oak but thought the bezel was hideous and vowed to never get one. Then I saw it in person and my opinion completely changed. The same could happen for the Polo S as watches can be quite different in the metal.


My post was badly written, what I meant was that I thought the rubber strap to be pretty thick, not the watch itself. I think for 100m WR, automatic, big date, sapphire sandwich, it does a good job at staying slim. The Polo S though is 9.4mm thick and 100m WR too, without screw down crown.

If you guys have pictures of the Breguet Marine on steel bracelet or on leather, I wouldn't mind looking at it 

As for Cartier, I don't know much about their watches to be honest. Our new president wears the famous "Tank", but overall the brand is mostly known here for other luxury items and I never see them advertise their watches in Paris. I think the identity of their designs relies mostly on French's pretentiousness and what makes us look like arrogants know-it-all, which doesn't appeal much to me for some reason.


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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> I know that trick with the bracelet - the shop where I got it showed it to me. I had tried the same thing with the deployant but it didn't seem to work as well.
> 
> Now that I know the deployant works the same way, I'll keep looking till I can find its G spot.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whoops, my bad, I thought you were talking about the deployant (clasp) on the bracelet. I don't have the rubber strap so I don't know if it works the same way. Sorry about that. And here I was so excited that I could be helpful. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

ar7iste said:


> If you guys have pictures of the Breguet Marine on steel bracelet or on leather, I wouldn't mind looking at it












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## ssclassa80

You can still buy lightly used, save a ton (or move further upmarket) and still 'keep it for life'. In the end it is your money 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## TJMike

ssclassa80 said:


> You can still buy lightly used, save a ton (or move further upmarket) and still 'keep it for life'. In the end it is your money
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Don't quite know at what post this is directed at, but personally I have no interest in buying a used watch unless I know the person selling it.


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## ssclassa80

Earlier post I should have quoted. As you were gentlemen...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## vkalia

mlcor said:


> Whoops, my bad, I thought you were talking about the deployant (clasp) on the bracelet. I don't have the rubber strap so I don't know if it works the same way. Sorry about that. And here I was so excited that I could be helpful.


Actually, your post WAS very helpful - after you mentioned it, i gave it another go and after a few attempts, did successfully find the clip's G-spot. Now it clicks shut relatively easily. So thank you!

@ar7iste: you wanted photos?


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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> Actually, your post WAS very helpful - after you mentioned it, i gave it another go and after a few attempts, did successfully find the clip's G-spot. Now it clicks shut relatively easily. So thank you!


Excellent!


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## TJMike

Can we stop it with all this Breguet talk? This morning the following came to my mind, "Let's go buy a Breguet today." As the Chinese say, aiya!


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## vkalia

We did start out with a Breguet, remember?

I think there is a certain zen-like symmetry in you getting a Breguet and then this thread can end. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

I would have been very happy with the Classique 5930. It is a most beautiful watch. But it is not _my _Saxonia. And while I had thoughts of buying a Saxonia before the Classique came onto my radar, it was not until the Saxonia 35mm was on my wrist that I found my perfect dress watch.

As for any other Breguet watch, the simple fact it is not the Up/Down.

This thread can not end; it will live on in infamy until the end of time.


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## vkalia

Saxonia > Classique, you say? Sure.

But Saxonia + Classique > Saxonia OR Classique.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Saxonia > Classique, you say? Sure.
> 
> But Saxonia + Classique > Saxonia OR Classique.


Ha ha ha. Did you used use such tactics on your clients? You are a great enabler.

There was, however, one missing line in your formula:

Saxonia + Up/Down > Saxonia + Classique

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## ar7iste

Thank you for the pictures guys!!
Was in Valencia for work, didn't have much time to read the thread.

So you were saying Saxonia + Classique + Up/down > Saxonia + Up/Down right ?


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## TJMike

ar7iste said:


> Thank you for the pictures guys!!
> Was in Valencia for work, didn't have much time to read the thread.
> 
> So you were saying Saxonia + Classique + Up/down > Saxonia + Up/Down right ?


For a single man, with no kids, and unlimited funds yes.

But for me the final bit of the formula that covers 2017-2021:

Saxonia + Classique + Up/Down = No money, unhappy wife and life.

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## hdfb910

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## schrop

hdfb910 said:


>


Now that is killer but of course my question is...did you go in with it?


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## TJMike

It has been over 2.5 months and the VC boutique still has not received the blue dial Overseas from Switzerland. Incredibly annoying if I wanted to make an impulse purchase 

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## vkalia

A month plus for me, and i am still waiting on my Lange as well.


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## TJMike

Well today I decided to spill coffee all over my De Ville. The coffee (in one of those long portable coffee cups) almost went all over my computer, but I knocked it out the way. Some still spilled, but apart from maybe a space bar somewhat sticking the computer seems to be working fine. However, the coffee completely covered the De Ville (it was on the desk next to me). I cleaned it in water and it seems ok. Good day!

Anyway, @vkalia when are you expecting the Up/Down to arrive? And more importantly, any word on the Mil-Spec?


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## vkalia

I'll only know about the Mil Spec by September, sadly - and the Lange by Aug at the latest.

Now let's get back to this. The DeVille is, of course, ruined. I think a Breguet or the 37mm Overseas would be a good replacement. Agreed?


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## ar7iste

vkalia said:


> Now let's get back to this. The DeVille is, of course, ruined. I think a Breguet or the 37mm Overseas would be a good replacement. Agreed?


Agreed. It breaks my heart but he doesn't have a choice anymore.
So, which one are you going for TJMike?


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## m0c021

He is just going to have to get them all. It's like Pokémon. Gotta catch them all. 


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## Tristis

What are your thoughts around the FPJ models like the bleu? just not your cup of tea(s)? I've been reading this and a few other threads the past couple of months (highly entertaining btw and useful in ordering my own thoughts) as I've been trying to decide on a a sport model watch, and the second I tried the bleu on all my well intentioned planning went out the window - can't begin to describe how blown away I was by it.


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## TJMike

Thanks for the sympathy guys  Please to report that the De Ville is keeping normal time and seems in good health. If I had to replace the De Ville I would get another De Ville; the exact same model. The 36.8mm one I own is smaller than the latest design, has an older movement, but is cheaper and can still be bought new.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> I'll only know about the Mil Spec by September, sadly - and the Lange by Aug at the latest.


You do realize that the AD will get the Up/Down on August 31 and the Mil-Spec will arrive on September 1?


----------



## TJMike

Tristis said:


> What are your thoughts around the FPJ models like the bleu? just not your cup of tea(s)? I've been reading this and a few other threads the past couple of months (highly entertaining btw and useful in ordering my own thoughts) as I've been trying to decide on a a sport model watch, and the second I tried the bleu on all my well intentioned planning went out the window - can't begin to describe how blown away I was by it.


The dials on all the FPJ models do absolutely nothing for me. Just not my thing. I would also be concerned about servicing in the future.


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> You do realize that the AD will get the Up/Down on August 31 and the Mil-Spec will arrive on September 1?


Hehe, I can live with that, as long as i get the bleeding thing. I have already started squirreling away funds for the Mil Spec.

I suspect a 40mm regular issue FF is coming soon, though. If they've made a new movement for the Mil Spec, they wont stop at just one LE. That makes the risk of missing out on the Mil Spec a little more palatable.

*sigh* My mom did always tell me - and even to this date, with me in my 40s, still continues to tell me - that I need to learn patience. Well, ma, if you are reading this, you should be impressed.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Hehe, I can live with that, as long as i get the bleeding thing. I have already started squirreling away funds for the Mil Spec.
> 
> I suspect a 40mm regular issue FF is coming soon, though. If they've made a new movement for the Mil Spec, they wont stop at just one LE. That makes the risk of missing out on the Mil Spec a little more palatable.
> 
> *sigh* My mom did always tell me - and even to this date, with me in my 40s, still continues to tell me - that I need to learn patience. Well, ma, if you are reading this, you should be impressed.


Waiting a whole four months for a watch must be tough. Of course I will be waiting for at least another 23 months for the Up/Down, but who is counting? And the odds you will end up with the Mil-Spec or a 40mm FF compared to me getting an Up-Down are a lot better...


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> Waiting a whole four months for a watch must be tough. Of course I will be waiting for at least another 23 months for the Up/Down, but who is counting? And the odds you will end up with the Mil-Spec or a 40mm FF compared to me getting an Up-Down are a lot better...


I am in the process of waiting a year for a custom RGM, so I can relate...

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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> I am in the process of waiting a year for a custom RGM, so I can relate...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well lucky you on the RGM! The waiting not so much.


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## TJMike

I have been thinking about my next watch and whether I want to get another Lange. With the insane prices of these watches I now look at such purchases as my potential last one. As such if I get an Up/Down will I feel regret about not getting a VC...

I am always tempted by a 40mm Patrimony (it was my so-called grail), but I do think it is too large for my wrist. But I can be swayed. I need to go to a VC boutique and take photos.
The 36mm versions are ruined by either diamonds or a date function.

I really like this Traditionnelle. It is a VC, I love the dial, but I am always uncertain about pink gold and brown straps.








The other surprising contender that has entered my mind is a yellow gold Calatrava 5119:







It is old-school, which I like. I love roman numerals on watches and like the yellow gold black strap combination, but the watch is not as versatile. However, I could see me using it as my "retirement" watch. A watch I wear around the house 1-2 days a week.

Things to ponder...


----------



## ar7iste

So glad to see this thread is BACK!

Are you focused on VC or PP mostly for the brands, and owning some more Trinity pieces? Or are you open to other suggestions?
It seems since the beginning of the thread that you cherish the idea of owning a VC (or a Breguet), but maybe you would also consider other brands like H Moser?

Also, coming back to Breguet, have you thought of going a different route and trying something very different from your Saxonia like the Reveil du Tsar? Unique complications and fantastic looking piece in just 39mm!
Lately, I've been eyeing enamel dials too, and Breguet does some nice work on that.

Back to VC, I don't know if you've every tried on a VC Harmony, but the shape of the case is something very different from the Patrimony and makes it look more appropriate on small wrists, even though they're still at 40mm. I also think the most beautiful movements of VC can be found in the Harmony line.


----------



## TJMike

ar7iste said:


> So glad to see this thread is BACK!
> 
> Are you focused on VC or PP mostly for the brands, and owning some more Trinity pieces? Or are you open to other suggestions?
> It seems since the beginning of the thread that you cherish the idea of owning a VC (or a Breguet), but maybe you would also consider other brands like H Moser?
> 
> Also, coming back to Breguet, have you thought of going a different route and trying something very different from your Saxonia like the Reveil du Tsar? Unique complications and fantastic looking piece in just 39mm!
> Lately, I've been eyeing enamel dials too, and Breguet does some nice work on that.
> 
> Back to VC, I don't know if you've every tried on a VC Harmony, but the shape of the case is something very different from the Patrimony and makes it look more appropriate on small wrists, even though they're still at 40mm. I also think the most beautiful movements of VC can be found in the Harmony line.


H Moser makes some lovely watches, but they do not have an AD or boutique close to me. That rules them out.

I really like Breguet dials, but I have come to the realization that when a 35.5mm dial looks big on my wrist due to the oversized lugs, Breguet is very unfortunately not for me.

Not a fan of the Harmony line in the slightest.

Right now I am thinking my collection is still quality of quantity. And as I mentioned, my next high-end watch may well be my last. So call me a brand whore, but now if I am going to spend a stupid amount of money on a watch it has to come from the Trinity or Lange. Or it could come from a brand like Journe (but I am not a fan of any Journe dials).


----------



## ar7iste

TJMike said:


> if I am going to spend a stupid amount of money on a watch it has to come from the Trinity or Lange. Or it could come from a brand like Journe (but I am not a fan of any Journe dials).


Totally understandable. I would feel like I'm not doing the right thing either. It's a bit scary to see how the brands have successfully implanted their image and prestige in our minds, but a VC/PP/AP/ALS sounds like a much safer choice than a smaller and newer high-end manufacture.

I like innovative designs and brands that "change the game" with different approach, it helps fulfill my horological curiosity. But I would never spend stupid amount of money on a brand that doesn't have a store on place Vendôme or Rue de la Paix. I assume this choice and will gladly take the blame for it.


----------



## TJMike

ar7iste said:


> Totally understandable. I would feel like I'm not doing the right thing either. It's a bit scary to see how the brands have successfully implanted their image and prestige in our minds, but a VC/PP/AP/ALS sounds like a much safer choice than a smaller and newer high-end manufacture.
> 
> I like innovative designs and brands that "change the game" with different approach, it helps fulfill my horological curiosity. But I would never spend stupid amount of money on a brand that doesn't have a store on place Vendôme or Rue de la Paix. I assume this choice and will gladly take the blame for it.


Part of it is marketing, but a large part of it (at least for me) is that going with the big four I know what I am getting. You are certainly paying for the name, but you are also paying for proven quality. If my watch funds were substantially larger than they are now I may well take a chance on a newer high-end manufacturer. However, I will be saving up for my next watch (and any future watches) and as such I do not want to take chances. Not to mention if for whatever reason I have to sell my watches, it is likely I would not take a big a bath on one of the big four compared to other companies. Obviously if resale value was the number one priority I would get a Patek, but thankfully at this stage resale value it is well down the list of attributes I look for in a watch.


----------



## vkalia

One issue with the Patek as a "wear at home" watch - you are going to have to start wearing pants at home as well. That's a whole new level of commitment. 

What? Why is everyone looking at me??

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

You may remember that I own that Traditionelle. To me, it is the epitome of the classic dress watch, but with small details that make it stand out from the similar offerings from Patek and ALS. For example, the way the minute track sometimes looks exactly the same color as the rest of the dial, but in other light contrasts subtly with it. I also think it is more versatile than the Calatrava, more comfortable to wear casually.

I saw the guilloché boutique version last week when I was in Singapore--it is beautiful as well, although quite a bit more money, and is more subtle than I would have thought from the pictures.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> One issue with the Patek as a "wear at home" watch - you are going to have to start wearing pants at home as well. That's a whole new level of commitment.
> 
> What? Why is everyone looking at me??
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk


What? I can't wear a Calatrava in my underwear? That is just crazy talk!


----------



## TJMike

mlcor said:


> You may remember that I own that Traditionelle. To me, it is the epitome of the classic dress watch, but with small details that make it stand out from the similar offerings from Patek and ALS. For example, the way the minute track sometimes looks exactly the same color as the rest of the dial, but in other light contrasts subtly with it. I also think it is more versatile than the Calatrava, more comfortable to wear casually.
> 
> I saw the guilloché boutique version last week when I was in Singapore--it is beautiful as well, although quite a bit more money, and is more subtle than I would have thought from the pictures.


Thanks; I do remember you own a Traditionnelle.

Of course your post has ruled out the version I was most interested in. I did not realize the guilloché version was more expensive. And that rules out that watch. I like the grey dial version, but that is platinum (more expensive), the 36mm Patrimony watches are ruined either by a date or diamonds, the 37mm Overseas is ruined by the placement of the small seconds, and the Historiques ultra fine 1955 is also in platinum and hence a lot more expensive (I would be tempted by the rose gold version, but always in my mind I would feel I settled for it)!!!

As I own a white gold Saxonia the WG Traditionnelle is too similar. In addition, at this stage, I am uncertain whether I like the "plain" rose gold version.

I was looking at the Malte collection and could be tempted, but not when the MSRP is $5,000 above the Traditionnelle and $7,000 above the Patrimony.

VC is doing everything it can not to take my money!


----------



## TJMike

Anyway I will probably take a trip to Beijing next month and check out the Patek and Lange boutiques.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

The boutique version of the Traditionelle is more expensive because it's only available in the boutiques; therefore no haggling and not available on the gray market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

mlcor said:


> The boutique version of the Traditionelle is more expensive because it's only available in the boutiques; therefore no haggling and not available on the gray market.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I never realized it was a boutique-only model. Oh well. If I am not impressed with the Calatrava and I once again accept the 40mm Patrimony is too big, I will just have to "settle" for the 1815 Up/Down 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

I went to the VC boutique today. The first thing the salesperson said to me was that they were still waiting for the Overseas.

I tried on a few watches. The Malte range is way too big for my wrist.

Next up was a Patrimony 









Suffice to say, no Patrimony for me. Just too big.

Next up was a rose gold Traditionnelle










Quite simply, I really liked it. So right now it is between that and the Up/Down. I will go to Beijing sometime, hopefully soon, and try on a Calatrava.

Some other thoughts:

Blancpain make some absolutely stunning watches. Unfortunately they also have a price tag to match.

Once again, perpetual calendar aside, I am underwhelmed by JLC watches once I see them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

What a coincidence, Mike - I tried out the very same grey dialed Patrimony a couple of days ago. I liked the fit - the lack of a seconds hand killed it for me. 

Re Blancpain - add that to your list of watches to shop for in KL, cos you get very good discounts on them (30% all told, I clouding GST refund) 

Sent from my SM-C900F using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

TJMike said:


> I went to the VC boutique today. The first thing the salesperson said to me was that they were still waiting for the Overseas.
> 
> I tried on a few watches. The Malte range is way too big for my wrist.
> 
> Next up was a Patrimony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suffice to say, no Patrimony for me. Just too big.
> 
> Next up was a rose gold Traditionnelle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite simply, I really liked it. So right now it is between that and the Up/Down. I will go to Beijing sometime, hopefully soon, and try on a Calatrava.
> 
> Some other thoughts:
> 
> Blancpain make some absolutely stunning watches. Unfortunately they also have a price tag to match.
> 
> Once again, perpetual calendar aside, I am underwhelmed by JLC watches once I see them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Traditionelle is really something in the metal, isn't it? I am biased, of course, but I still haven't come across a traditional (no pun intended) rose gold dress watch that I like better without spending crazy money (like on a Dufour). Looks good on you size-wise, too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

@vkalia we both have great taste.

As for Blancpain, it is in the running for the mythical fifth watch in about 7+ years. I have decided, and we both know I don't change my mind, that my next watch will be between Lange, Patek, and VC.

@mclor I must admit I never considered the Traditionnelle before because I was not a fan of the small seconds. But with the Saxonia, I arguably prefer small seconds over a normal seconds hand.

The finishing on the Traditionnelle is superb. On par with the Saxonia and better than the Patrimony.

Size wise, the extra 3mm makes it different to the Saxonia, which is good. I would not want it any larger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

At this stage I have settled on the Traditionnelle being my next watch. In addition to loving the watch, it will satisfy my VC itch and the cheaper price compared to the other options certainly is nice.

The watch after that will be a blue-dial Patek Gondolo, if it fits well on my wrist. I will be looking to purchase that down the road as my "final" watch.

If all this comes to plan, I will have an Omega, Grand Seiko, Lange, VC, and Patek. Pretty, pretty, pretty good.

Of course plans are subject to change...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drhr

TJMike said:


> At this stage I have settled on the Traditionnelle being my next watch. In addition to loving the watch, it will satisfy my VC itch and the cheaper priced compared to the other options certainly is nice.
> 
> The watch after that will be a blue-dial Patek Gondolo, if it fits well on my wrist. I will be looking to purchase that down the road as my "final" watch.
> 
> If all this comes to plan, I will have an Omega, Grand Seiko, Lange, VC, and Patek. Pretty, pretty, pretty good.
> 
> *Of course plans are subject to change..*.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Indeed, especially when the annual watch shows are factored in (ask me how I know) . . .


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## shauljj

I was going to say aquanaut all the way but you already ruled it out! I'll keep thinking


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## vkalia

shauljj said:


> I was going to say aquanaut all the way but you already ruled it out! I'll keep thinking


There's still time.

My bet is that Mike gets the Breguet Classic after all, and thus the whole cosmic cycle is completed.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk


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## trueblueswiss

I kind of feel like I'm interrupting the adults conversation but I tried a thread search and nothing came up so I'll throw a suggestion into the ring. It might not be high end enough but while looking for another GP article I found this one. I quite like the Laureato as a sort of cool alternative sport watch but haven't tried one on as yet.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/girard-perregaux-laureato-38mm-hands-on


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## TJMike

There are no adults in this conversation.

I believe every single high end sports watch has been suggested. Many lovely watches, but I realized they are not for me.

And while @vkalia hopes I get a Breguet Classique alas I believe the cosmos is working against him  

However judging from this thread when it comes to watches and me anything is possible. I may even end up with a Rolex. Actually if I end up with a Rolex, heaven helps us all...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drhr

TJMike said:


> There are no adults in this conversation.
> 
> I believe every single high end sports watch has been suggested. Many lovely watches, but I realized they are not for me.
> 
> And while @vkalia hopes I get a Breguet Classique alas I believe the cosmos is working against him
> 
> However judging from this thread when it comes to watches and me anything is possible. I may even end up with a Rolex. *Actually if I end up with a Rolex, heaven helps us all...*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, what I thought too ;-) . . .


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## TJMike

drhr said:


> Yep, what I thought too ;-) . . .


Although if you want to sell me your blue Smurf Rolex I think the heavens will allow it  As I told you before, that is my favorite Rolex and a watch I would happily wear.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lxxrr

TLDR; Mike does not want a high-end sports model for small wrists


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## srminimo

The new VC Overseas 37 antimagnetic is pretty sweet. Love the fact that it still has a sapphire back with the iron cage around the movement.


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## vkalia

lxxrr said:


> TLDR; Mike does not want a high-end sports model for small wrists


Right now.

He wanted a sports watch and got a Saxonia.
Now he wants a dress watch, so I'd say a Fifty Fathoms is a definite possibility


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## TJMike

I started this thread almost two years ago and I still do not have a high-end sports watch. This is what I ended up with:








Decided on a VC as the so-called grail watch. A VC calendar in SS is very tempting. The Historiques 1942 is really nice. However, I do have an issue with Arabic numerals. Also, I am guessing I could have a bit of trouble with the similarity between the hour hand and the date hand:








The 56 Complete Calendar is growing on me, and the blue dial looks so great in photos and videos. However, at 40x11.6 the watch (the gray dial at least) looks a bit bulky on my wrist.

I do not need another gold dress watch. Yet I have fallen in love:








36mm, automatic (the movement is amazing), rose gold, and I actually like the date window. Don't have a high-end automatic, nor central seconds, nor rose gold watch. Just enough differences to justify the higher price point. Time to save up.


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## ar7iste

Hi!

You’ve mentioned the Patrimony as a grail sometimes at the beginning of the thread if I recall correctly (it’s been almost 2 years now!). It looks like you keep going back to it.

So, are you settled on VC now or do you still have other watches in mind? Many new watches were released in the past years!

Please share your adventures as you go through the process again, it’s really fun to read.

All the best,
A.


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## TJMike

A VC is incoming and a few watches are going (will be left with a VC, Lange, and Patek):
https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/downsizing-future-incoming-4884999.html


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## KtWUS

Love the VC historiques triple calendars. Great choice and the 1948 with the framed day/date windows + moonphase benefit a lot from the added touch of class. I would've dropped the Lange and kept the GS on a nato for really hot days (or replaced the GS with a more historically inspired GS like one of the 44gs models). 

Like you, I like watches with clear vintage roots and in that regard the Saxonia is a bit out of place. But marvelous 3 watch set anyway, congrats!


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## mlcor

@TJMike, sorry I didn't see your other post as I don't frequent the vast ocean of the public forum. ;-)

You know that I love that VC, and as you noted, I'm currently in favor of people making bold downsizing decisions. Too bad about the JLC, but no one said these decisions were without some difficulty. The pieces you will have left suit you perfectly IMO.

And yes, I'm convinced Lange is going to come out with that sports watch, it just is going to take a bit longer than we had hoped. The question will be when (and availability, of course).

Congratulations, and looking forward to seeing pictures of the VC when it arrives. I'll especially be interested in seeing whether the third hand for the date bothers you. Seems to me they may be different enough that it won't be a problem, but it's the kind of thing you have to live with for a bit before you know, I think.


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## ar7iste

mlcor said:


> @TJMike, sorry I didn't see your other post as I don't frequent the vast ocean of the public forum. ;-)


I know, right? Gosh, if I have to start going to the Public forum to read interesting threads, I don't know when I would have time to work!
This forum is way too active for me to keep up with. f381 is enough.


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## Spangles

mlcor said:


> @TJMike, sorry I didn't see your other post as I don't frequent the vast ocean of the public forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know that I love that VC, and as you noted, I'm currently in favor of people making bold downsizing decisions. Too bad about the JLC, but no one said these decisions were without some difficulty. The pieces you will have left suit you perfectly IMO.
> 
> And yes, I'm convinced Lange is going to come out with that sports watch, it just is going to take a bit longer than we had hoped. The question will be when (and availability, of course).
> 
> Congratulations, and looking forward to seeing pictures of the VC when it arrives. I'll especially be interested in seeing whether the third hand for the date bothers you. Seems to me they may be different enough that it won't be a problem, but it's the kind of thing you have to live with for a bit before you know, I think.


I spoke to the head of ALS North America last year and said we need a sportswatch. The response I got was that the higher ups in Switzerland were dead-set against it and think it is totally against brand DNA. Oh well.

P.S. TJM, I picked up a vintage Breguet 3460 and it's fantastic at 36mm. Just f.y.i.


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## mlcor

Spangles said:


> I spoke to the head of ALS North America last year and said we need a sportswatch. The response I got was that the higher ups in Switzerland were dead-set against it and think it is totally against brand DNA. Oh well.


We shall see...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

Once I pick up the VC 1948 That will be it for me and watches for a damn while. I may also be done with new watches for even longer. @Spangles I have tried on a 35mm Breguet; with those lugs it still looks big on me (there is a photo somewhere in this thread).

The plan I am toying with moving forward (ha ha) is getting a vintage VC and a Lange 1 (Darth) a long way down the road. That will refill the watch-box.


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## DaleEArnold

*Re: Suggestions: High-End Sport Model Watch For Small Wrists..*

Too small for me, So Goes to the Wife..


----------



## plastique999

Great choice on the VC, one of my favorite brands!
I love my Toledo 1952...









Sent from my Zeitwerk


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## TJMike

I have totally fallen head over heels in love. It is the second time I have tried this watch on in the last few months. Each time I just stare and marvel at it. I plan to buy a new VC next year. Will be waiting until after SIHH to make my decision, but currently this watch is leading the pack.
Edit: No idea why the photo is so huge.


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## ajbutler13

TJMike said:


> *Once I pick up the VC 1948 That will be it for me and watches for a damn while*. I may also be done with new watches for even longer...The plan I am toying with moving forward (ha ha) is getting a vintage VC and a Lange 1 (Darth) *a long way down the road.* That will refill the watch-box.





TJMike said:


> *I have totally fallen head over heels in love.* It is the second time I have tried this watch on in the last few months. Each time I just stare and marvel at it. *I plan to buy a new VC next year.*


This hobby makes us absolutely crazy, doesn't it? LOVE the Overseas, though. What a watch.


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## ar7iste

Yes!! Here we go again!

May the new journey begin


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## TJMike

ajbutler13 said:


> This hobby makes us absolutely crazy, doesn't it? LOVE the Overseas, though. What a watch.


It is indeed an absolutely stupid hobby


----------



## WatchTimes

on a 6.25 in wrist this would be a BEAST!
My wrists are just under 7 in and I sold my FF after a couple months.
Even wearing it occasionally in rotation it just was too big and did not balance or wear well on a smaller wrist.



kenkls said:


> Blanpain FF, with NATO strap?
> 
> 從我的iPhone使用Tapatalk 發送


----------



## jwillson

WatchTimes said:


> on a 6.25 in wrist this would be a BEAST!
> My wrists are just under 7 in and I sold my FF after a couple months.
> Even wearing it occasionally in rotation it just was too big and did not balance or wear well on a smaller wrist.
> 
> 
> 
> kenkls said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blanpain FF, with NATO strap?
> 
> 從我的iPhone使用Tapatalk 發送
Click to expand...

They're not super easy to find, but if you like the FF you could look for one of the Tribute to Milspec or OC III models. They are 40mm rather than the standard 45mm-makes a huge difference on smaller wrists. Mine is 6.25" and looks good with the OC III.


----------



## murokello

TJMike said:


> 36mm, automatic (the movement is amazing), rose gold, and I actually like the date window. Don't have a high-end automatic, nor central seconds, nor rose gold watch. Just enough differences to justify the higher price point. Time to save up.


This looks amazing. Starting to warm up to those stick hands.


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## vkalia

No love for the 37mm Overseas, right, Mike? I think it was the sub-dial at 9, if i recall correctly - but did you happen to try them out on the wrist?

I've only found the ladies version of the 37mm, with the diamonds. Never seen the blue dial / non-adorned bezel anywhere.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> No love for the 37mm Overseas, right, Mike? I think it was the sub-dial at 9, if i recall correctly - but did you happen to try them out on the wrist?
> 
> I've only found the ladies version of the 37mm, with the diamonds. Never seen the blue dial / non-adorned bezel anywhere.


I actually really love the 37mm Overseas and have grown to enjoy the quirkiness of the sub-dial at 9. I tried the blue dial on quite a few times and it was actually leading the pack for my next VC. However, I tried it on again before the silver 41mm (along with a number of dress watches). I had on my 37mm Omega. The 37mm Overseas is a lot smaller than the Omega. I mean a lot smaller. I was very surprised as I never really noticed how small it wears in the past (probably too busy staring at the stunning dial; a problem I do have when I analyze watches; cough, Breguet Marine, cough ). The 37m Overseas wears more like a 35mm watch (actually it probably wears smaller than my 35mm Saxonia). If it was a dress watch, no issues. But for a sports watch I prefer a larger watch. And the silver dial 41mm fits perfectly (I mean the end lugs shape wonderfully around my wrist) and I don't have an issue with the date window as I do with the blue dial.


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> I actually really love the 37mm Overseas and have grown to enjoy the quirkiness of the sub-dial at 9. I tried the blue dial on quite a few times and it was actually leading the pack for my next VC. However, I tried it on again before the silver 41mm (along with a number of dress watches). I had on my 37mm Omega. The 37mm Overseas is a lot smaller than the Omega. I mean a lot smaller. I was very surprised as I never really noticed how small it wears in the past (probably too busy staring at the stunning dial; a problem I do have when I analyze watches; cough, Breguet Marine, cough ). The 37m Overseas wears more like a 35mm watch (actually it probably wears smaller than my 35mm Saxonia). If it was a dress watch, no issues. But for a sports watch I prefer a larger watch. And the silver dial 41mm fits perfectly (I mean the end lugs shape wonderfully around my wrist) and I don't have an issue with the date window as I do with the blue dial.


Makes sense - agree with you about preferring some wrist presence on sports watches.

But its funny how, even though our tastes are mostly similar, we interpret watches differently. Eg, to me, the Overseas series wears large, which is why I am leaning towards the 37mm (despite passing on the 15202 for the 15400) and the Breguet Marine wears perfectly - and for you, the Overseas wears small and the Breguet wears large.

But good to know that you liked the dial on the 37mm... perhaps i should make a more active effort to see on in the flesh.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Makes sense - agree with you about preferring some wrist presence on sports watches.
> 
> But its funny how, even though our tastes are mostly similar, we interpret watches differently. Eg, to me, the Overseas series wears large, which is why I am leaning towards the 37mm (despite passing on the 15202 for the 15400) and the Breguet Marine wears perfectly - and for you, the Overseas wears small and the Breguet wears large.
> 
> But good to know that you liked the dial on the 37mm... perhaps i should make a more active effort to see on in the flesh.


Truthfully, even if the 41mm Overseas is on the large size for me I don't give a f**k. I have come to accept that I was trying to talk myself out of the watch because of the price. Now that I am comfortable paying utterly stupid prices for watches. I want a VC on a bracelet. A watch that would be a daily wearer for the summer months. I am just waiting for SIHH to see what VC release. The QDL and Harmony collections are no more. A number of Historiques watches have also been discontinued. Just impatiently waiting to see what VC does.

The Marine may be a perfect fit but I could never try one on with the bracelet. On the rubber, there was so much strap overhang it looked stupid.

It is about time you get a VC!


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> Truthfully, even if the 41mm Overseas is on the large size for me I don't give a f**k. I have come to accept that I was trying to talk myself out of the watch because of the price. Now that I am comfortable paying utterly stupid prices for watches. I want a VC on a bracelet. A watch that would be a daily wearer for the summer months. I am just waiting for SIHH to see what VC release. The QDL and Harmony collections are no more. A number of Historiques watches have also been discontinued. Just impatiently waiting to see what VC does.
> 
> The Marine may be a perfect fit but I could never try one on with the bracelet. On the rubber, there was so much strap overhang it looked stupid.
> 
> It is about time you get a VC!


Awesome! The 41mm Overseas is a beaut, that's for sure. You do know SIHH is a LONG way away... the Overseas is here right now, and I dont think they are going to change anything, given how new a release it was.

For my part, after a lot of watch-fondling, I am leaning towards getting a Lange 1815 chrono or AC - the AC would be preferable, if they release one in a dark dial. But this will be next year: have a lot of real world expenses this year and i need a new road bike as well, so the watch fund isnt getting filled as fast as I would like. This'll be my end-game apex watch, atleast for the foreseeable future.

Am slowly working my way towards consolidating to 8 pieces in my core - the MilSpec, the Santos, the El Primero and even the JLC Master Geo are all candidates for getting the chop. Add a Patek 5296 and the above-mentioned Lange 1815, and I'd be a happy puppy. Perhaps a JLC Reverso down the road... much as I would like to get a VC to complete my "Alpha Brand and 3 former King of the Hills" set , they simply dont have a watch that I find compelling enough to own in a small collection.


----------



## TedPhatana

Overseas ultra thin in steel or rose gold?

I should save my money!!!!



vkalia said:


> Awesome! The 41mm Overseas is a beaut, that's for sure. You do know SIHH is a LONG way away... the Overseas is here right now, and I dont think they are going to change anything, given how new a release it was.
> 
> For my part, after a lot of watch-fondling, I am leaning towards getting a Lange 1815 chrono or AC - the AC would be preferable, if they release one in a dark dial. But this will be next year: have a lot of real world expenses this year and i need a new road bike as well, so the watch fund isnt getting filled as fast as I would like. This'll be my end-game apex watch, atleast for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Am slowly working my way towards consolidating to 8 pieces in my core - the MilSpec, the Santos, the El Primero and even the JLC Master Geo are all candidates for getting the chop. Add a Patek 5296 and the above-mentioned Lange 1815, and I'd be a happy puppy. Perhaps a JLC Reverso down the road... much as I would like to get a VC to complete my "Alpha Brand and 3 former King of the Hills" set , they simply dont have a watch that I find compelling enough to own in a small collection.


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## xherion

vkalia said:


> Makes sense - agree with you about preferring some wrist presence on sports watches.
> 
> But its funny how, even though our tastes are mostly similar, we interpret watches differently. Eg, to me, the Overseas series wears large, which is why I am leaning towards the 37mm (despite passing on the 15202 for the 15400) and the Breguet Marine wears perfectly - and for you, the Overseas wears small and the Breguet wears large.
> 
> But good to know that you liked the dial on the 37mm... perhaps i should make a more active effort to see on in the flesh.


Mike is right, I tried on VC OS 37mm and it wears really small. 
The 41mm VC wears like a normal 41mm, unlike APRO's 41mm, so the 41mm still looks ok on my 6.5" wrist, but 37mm is way too small.


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## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Awesome! The 41mm Overseas is a beaut, that's for sure. You do know SIHH is a LONG way away... the Overseas is here right now, and I dont think they are going to change anything, given how new a release it was.
> 
> For my part, after a lot of watch-fondling, I am leaning towards getting a Lange 1815 chrono or AC - the AC would be preferable, if they release one in a dark dial. But this will be next year: have a lot of real world expenses this year and i need a new road bike as well, so the watch fund isnt getting filled as fast as I would like. This'll be my end-game apex watch, atleast for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Am slowly working my way towards consolidating to 8 pieces in my core - the MilSpec, the Santos, the El Primero and even the JLC Master Geo are all candidates for getting the chop. Add a Patek 5296 and the above-mentioned Lange 1815, and I'd be a happy puppy. Perhaps a JLC Reverso down the road... much as I would like to get a VC to complete my "Alpha Brand and 3 former King of the Hills" set , they simply dont have a watch that I find compelling enough to own in a small collection.


I have patience  Also, with limited funds, I prefer to wait to see what VC release next year. If they do release a SS ultra-thin Overseas (there have been some rumblings）that will be the dream (even if it means I delay my purchase for 1-2 years).

May want to hold off on the 1815. Lange will be releasing a sports watch next year; info starts at about the 3 minute mark (



)

While that is potential good news for you, the Patek 5296 is discontinued. If you don't buy one relatively soon you would have to buy used.


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## Acey

The 37mm royal oak comes to mind


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