# ALS chronograph value retention



## wintershade

Hi All -- I'm in final stages of selection process of my first Lange. I seem to be honing in on one of the white metal chronograph offerings with the lead contender being an 1815 Chronograph with pulsation dial -- either the new black one or the boutique edition. Aesthetics of the two are a tie for me. Runner up is the Original Datagraph, love the iconic big date but I find the thickness and top-heaviness less enjoyable on my 7" wrist. 

Anyhow, could I please get some opinions on the long-term collegiality and likely value retention of these pieces? Which is the best long term value, assuming I like them all equally? It seems the 1815 Chrono Boutique Edition runs $45-50K used, so for the same price (or quite a bit less) I could get the black version new or gray market. The original Datograph also seems to run around $50K used, though the pieces are quite a bit older, so likely to need a service, but seems to be a great value given new versions are $75K+ gray and nearly $100K used.

Thanks,
Josh


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## CFR

Your two finalists are both great choices. A friend has the 1815 Chrono "boutique" edition, and it's really stunning watch.

Re thickness and top-heaviness of the original Dato: My wrist is quite a bit smaller than yours (6.25"), and an original Dato (YG/black dial) looks and feels fine. See pic below.

New, standard-production Langes (including "boutique" editions) that have been around for awhile don't retain their value. They drop considerably when you buy one brand new and walk out the door. Once that happens -- once they become preowned -- they tend to hold their value pretty well, after they take the initial haircut when first purchased brand new.

Preowned prices for the 1815 Chrono "boutique" are relatively high because it hasn't been available for too long and so there aren't too many out there YET, in the preowned market. In 5-10 years, you may find that preowned prices for all these 1815 chronos (boutique as well as WG/black dial) have gone down because the market is saturated. The recent introduction of the WG/black dial model will likely cause preowned prices of the "boutique" edition to drop, too. That's my opinion, anyway.

The original Datograph (c.1999) has been around for much, much longer than the 1815 Chrono "boutique" (c.2015), and there are tons of preowned Datos available in platinum. They are priced accordingly. I think preowned prices on these have softened a bit -- a few thousand dollars -- in the last 2-3 years. I'm not sure if this is due to a general market softening, or competition from increased availability of the newer Dato Up/Down (c.2012) in the preowned market, or both. Lots of folks prefer the original Dato over the newer Dato Up/Down, by the way: Yes, the Dato Up/Down has a helpful power reserve indicator and longer power reserve, but the case is quite a bit larger (41mm vs. 39mm) and the dial not as attractive as the original (iconic) Dato, in the eyes of many.

If money is a serious primary concern, then here's what I'd do if I were you: I'd look for a preowned original PT Dato (hopefully with a PT deployant buckle!) complete with box + papers priced in the low $40Ks. If you look around and haggle a bit, you'll find one (I actually saw one in the high $30Ks with deployant + all boxes/papers several months ago). Wear it for a few years, enjoy it, and sell it if/when you then want to get an 1815 Chrono. At that point, you'll probably find an 1815 Chrono (boutique or WG/black dial) for a lower price than you'd pay for one right now, because more will be out there and they will no longer be the latest, greatest, hot new Lange chrono. And by that time, you may love the Dato so much that you won't want to part with it.

If money is a secondary concern right now, then get one of the 1815 Chronos because you like them a bit more than the Dato. Just know that you may (probably will, I think) lose money if you hold it for several years and then resell it.


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## Babka

Great advice by CFR! I've given up thinking about selling something I get tired of in the future. I just get what is reasonable to me and something I really like. And with Langes, prices are stupendous for this skill set of watch making.


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## tim_s

agree, really solid ideas from CFR! Stunning Dato too, congrats. I managed to get an original model PT dato with a deployant and love it. On the right strap (i hate the original one) its an incredible watch.


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## CFR

Can you post a pic of your Dato with your preferred strap? I'm curious to see what you like.


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## tim_s

CFR said:


> Can you post a pic of your Dato with your preferred strap? I'm curious to see what you like.












I have it on a black cordovan at the moment...I have tried a few combinations but this one is the best. The original strap is too thick, stiff and short. Maybe it's made worse with the deployant...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CFR

Thanks for posting this, looks great! When I got my preowned YG/black dial Dato, the seller (who also happened to be a Lange AD) sent it on a short dark brown Lange strap with a semi-gloss finish (it's an old strap -- nicer than most of Lange's current straps). I thought I'd want to put it on a different strap, but I left it alone and really like it. It actually fits okay with the deployant.


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## tim_s

not sure about gold but the pt is a heavy watch so comfort was a big factor in deciding...glad yours fits good too, it feels great on the right strap!


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## wintershade

CFR said:


> Your two finalists are both great choices. A friend has the 1815 Chrono "boutique" edition, and it's really stunning watch.
> 
> If money is a serious primary concern, then here's what I'd do if I were you: I'd look for a preowned original PT Dato (hopefully with a PT deployant buckle!) complete with box + papers priced in the low $40Ks. If you look around and haggle a bit, you'll find one (I actually saw one in the high $30Ks with deployant + all boxes/papers several months ago). Wear it for a few years, enjoy it, and sell it if/when you then want to get an 1815 Chrono. At that point, you'll probably find an 1815 Chrono (boutique or WG/black dial) for a lower price than you'd pay for one right now, because more will be out there and they will no longer be the latest, greatest, hot new Lange chrono. And by that time, you may love the Dato so much that you won't want to part with it.
> 
> If money is a secondary concern right now, then get one of the 1815 Chronos because you like them a bit more than the Dato. Just know that you may (probably will, I think) lose money if you hold it for several years and then resell it.


Thanks CFR -- This is really the most helpful advice I could have hoped for. I really appreciate it. (Stunning watch too, btw). I think I'll do my best to seek out the Original PT Dato and confirm I can get used to the fit/feel. On some level, it also just seems like a lot "more" watch for the money and if the likelihood of loosing money is small, there isn't much downside. On the other hand, if I regret the 1815 Chrono purchase (such as if I decide I can't live without date), I'm kind of hosed....

Any sense for whether the Black or Boutique 1815 is likely to hold value better, if I do end up going down that route?


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## CFR

Glad it's helpful. Re whether the black-dial or the boutique 1815 Chrono is likely to hold value better -- normally I would've said "boutique," but the black dial is also very well-liked. I think it's a tossup unless Lange ends up making a lot more of one vs. the other before discontinuing them both, eventually -- and we can't know that in advance. That's what happened with the original Datograph in pink gold with black dial ("Dufour" Datograph, because Philippe Dufour loves/wears it): Lange made these for only a very short time, so they're hard to find and command a premium, but nobody could have known in advance that'd happen.


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## sauuce

What is the appeal of the 1815 chrono over the original dato?

It seems like its both less iconic & lacks the big date, which is Lange's signature. I would follow the advice in this thread and do PT dato

Servicecosts cant be THAT crazy...right....? 

Sent from my SM-N920L using Tapatalk


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## CFR

Quite a few people find the Dato to be too thick and/or heavy. They say the 1815 Chrono is "more wearable" than the Dato. Also, the versions of the 1815 Chrono without the pulsometric dial have a totally clean, simple look -- not "busy" (like the Dato). Also, two current 1815 Chrono models -- the new WG/black dial model and the WG/blue-printed "Boutique edition" -- are really nice and are attracting a lot of attention. The other thing to note is that the original (iconic, to many) Dato was discontinued several years ago and replaced by the Dato Up/Down, which is even bigger and thicker than the original Dato. You can't buy the original Dato brand new anymore.


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## wintershade

sauuce said:


> What is the appeal of the 1815 chrono over the original dato?


Exactly what CFR said. I find the Dato a bit thick, heavy, and just sort of flashier on wrist. Don't get me wrong, it's an incredible piece with undeniable pedigree (which is what makes my decision so difficult) but at the end of the day feel like I'll just end up wearing the 1815 Chrono more often.... The advice to buy the original Dato and if I find I don't like it trading for a used 1815 is probably spot on though. Decisions decisions...


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## wintershade

CFR said:


> Glad it's helpful. Re whether the black-dial or the boutique 1815 Chrono is likely to hold value better -- normally I would've said "boutique," but the black dial is also very well-liked. I think it's a tossup unless Lange ends up making a lot more of one vs. the other before discontinuing them both, eventually -- and we can't know that in advance. That's what happened with the original Datograph in pink gold with black dial ("Dufour" Datograph, because Philippe Dufour loves/wears it): Lange made these for only a very short time, so they're hard to find and command a premium, but nobody could have known in advance that'd happen.


*I realize it's hard to guess, but where do people think the used values of the 1815 Chronos will shake out in the secondary market in a few years time?* They are $50K new, low-mid $40K gray market and I've seen a couple Boutique editions used in the $42-45K range. Will these be worth $35K in a few years when people start flipping them for the next latest/greatest Lange?

I like to think of myself as a "buy and own forever" guy, but looking at used prices of pristine Datographs is depressing. I'd sure hate to be the guy who spent nearly $100K on a Datograph U/D which can be readily had now for $55-65, let alone the original Datograph which I've found 2 great examples in the low $40Ks.


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## Ranger822

wintershade said:


> *I realize it's hard to guess, but where do people think the used values of the 1815 Chronos will shake out in the secondary market in a few years time?* They are $50K new, low-mid $40K gray market and I've seen a couple Boutique editions used in the $42-45K range. Will these be worth $35K in a few years when people start flipping them for the next latest/greatest Lange?
> 
> I like to think of myself as a "buy and own forever" guy, but looking at used prices of pristine Datographs is depressing. I'd sure hate to be the guy who spent nearly $100K on a Datograph U/D which can be readily had now for $55-65, let alone the original Datograph which I've found 2 great examples in the low $40Ks.


I don't feel bad for anyone who has a spare 100K to blow on a watch, hehehe. I am sure they can afford to lose a little. However, I am guessing a lot of those folks don't bother with these forums, they buy the best, when they want it, and don't look back. It is likely "chump change." But, if you are like me, considerably less affluent, and need to make my pennies count, buying used makes good cents and avoids the "haircut."


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## Ranger822

wintershade said:


> *I realize it's hard to guess, but where do people think the used values of the 1815 Chronos will shake out in the secondary market in a few years time?* They are $50K new, low-mid $40K gray market and I've seen a couple Boutique editions used in the $42-45K range. Will these be worth $35K in a few years when people start flipping them for the next latest/greatest Lange?
> 
> I like to think of myself as a "buy and own forever" guy, but looking at used prices of pristine Datographs is depressing. I'd sure hate to be the guy who spent nearly $100K on a Datograph U/D which can be readily had now for $55-65, let alone the original Datograph which I've found 2 great examples in the low $40Ks.


I don't feel bad for anyone who has a spare 100K to blow on a watch, hehehe. I am sure they can afford to lose a little. However, I am guessing a lot of those folks don't bother with these forums, they buy the best, when they want it, and don't look back. It is likely "chump change." But, if you are like me, considerably less affluent, and need to make my pennies count, buying used makes good cents and avoids the "haircut."


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## galtuk

sauuce said:


> What is the appeal of the 1815 chrono over the original dato?
> 
> It seems like its both less iconic & lacks the big date, which is Lange's signature. I would follow the advice in this thread and do PT dato
> 
> Servicecosts cant be THAT crazy...right....?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920L using Tapatalk


Namely the wearability and the dial is quite clean. Especially on the non scale dial.

Also, the movement looks the same from the back. So for those preferring a thinner cleaner style watch you get the best of both worlds.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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