# Zenith Grand Prix Paris 1900



## Costas (Oct 10, 2013)

Hi all
I am new to this site can you please help 
I would like some information, dates or anything else to trace the history of my Grand fathers pocket watch, is Zenith Grand Prix Paris 1900 15 rubis silver 800.
The movement number is 2449607 and the case number is 3162761 and below 2839.
Can anyone please help me with some information ?

Kind regards

Constantinos


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Welcome to the Zenith forum. The watch is actually not from 1900 - that merely refers to a prize Zenith won at an exhibition that year. The serial number dates it to 1920. Some pictures and a measurement of the movement diameter would help further.

Hartmut Richter


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## Costas (Oct 10, 2013)

Dear Hartmut
A big thank you for your reply i am sending some images, your help is much appreciated thanks again.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Hmmmm - some staining on that movement, I see. The diameter of the visible part of the movement is ca. 37mm, a little smaller than I would have thought (the most common ones were probably the 19''' movements with ca. 41 visible mm). That would make it a 17''' movement, the most likely being the 17''' E.V.P.S. (later designation: 17'''-18-1 for the lepine movement, which is what you have there).

Hartmut Richter


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## Costas (Oct 10, 2013)

Hi Hartmut, any ideas what caused the staining? (salty water?) and how i can prevent any further decaying. The reason i am asking all these questions is because I've never met my Grandfather,he came to Piraeus the port of Athens as a refugee 1922 from Smyrna and died from typhoid fever few months later just couple of months before my father was born and my Grandmother died five years later, this watch is what i have left from them, the conditions of their journey must have left some marks on this most valuable watch i would ever hold in my hands,and i am most grateful to you for the information you provided, 
thank you very much.

Constantinos

Ps
The watch works fine by the way


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Hi Constantinos,

Pocket watches, by definition, are open to the atmosphere. If they are in a humid environment like the Mediterranean, or like my bathroom after a shower, the humidity gets in the watch. Without reviewing it closely, it looks like pitting from rusting.

If the pitting does not get into the working surfaces, the watch will continue to run well. It could have been there for years, so I don't think it is something to worry about now.

Thanks for posting,

Dan


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## Costas (Oct 10, 2013)

Hi Dan 

Thank you for your information, the pitting starts from the opening and spreads, you are right,most probably it must been there for years because the last fifty years has been stored in a dry place. how often should i wind it? if at all...any ideas ? 
Thanks again

Constantinos


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

If it has not been serviced recently, I would try to have that done. If the lubricants have dried, the parts will wear faster. 

Then treat it like any other hand wind. Wind once a day, preferably close the same time each day. 

Hope that helps!

Dan


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## olgaart (Aug 18, 2021)

Hello, I recently found my great grandfather's pocket watch and I was wondering if you can help me with more information. I was not able to find anything like this on the internet. There is a Greek and a Israeli flag.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Weelcome to Watchuseek! Despite the flags on the dial, the watch was made primarily for the turkish market, as shown by arabic numerals (hour markers) on the dial as well as the "K. Serkisoff" on the inner case back. Serkisoff was a Zenith distributer in Constantinople (Istanbul). The movement shows that it is from or post 1905 and the movement serial number suggests that it's from 1909 (if it is 1038xxx) or from 1913/14 (if it is 1638xxx). The arabic or farsi (persian) writing and numerals on the outer case back were added _post hoc_ by the owner.

Hartmut Richter


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## olgaart (Aug 18, 2021)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Weelcome to Watchuseek! Despite the flags on the dial, the watch was made primarily for the turkish market, as shown by arabic numerals (hour markers) on the dial as well as the "K. Serkisoff" on the inner case back. Serkisoff was a Zenith distributer in Constantinople (Istanbul). The movement shows that it is from or post 1905 and the movement serial number suggests that it's from 1909 (if it is 1038xxx) or from 1913/14 (if it is 1638xxx). The arabic or farsi (persian) writing and numerals on the outer case back were added _post hoc_ by the owner.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you so much for the details! Any idea what the flags are? My great grandfather was Pontiac Greek.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Well, one of them is greek and the other is israeli. As to *why* those flags are there and whether they are original or were put there _post hoc_, I can't say - you have the watch in hand so you would be better able to tell.

Hartmut Richter


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to the Zenith forum. The watch is actually not from 1900 - that merely refers to a prize Zenith won at an exhibition that year. The serial number dates it to 1920. Some pictures and a measurement of the movement diameter would help further.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Dear Hartmut,

Happy New Year!

I also just received a Zenith Paris Grand Prix 1900 pocket watch. Belonged to my grandfather. Do you have any idea what period of production the case number 3443525 would indicate? I can't get the movement cover opened.

Thanks you so much for any comments.

Kind regards,

Domenico Musone


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

dmusone said:


> Dear Hartmut,
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> ...


Sorry, the actual case number is 3442523.

Domenico


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

dmusone said:


> Sorry, the actual case number is 3442523.
> 
> Domenico


Here's also a picture of the dial.

Thanks again,

Domenico


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

dmusone said:


> Here's also a picture of the dial.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> ...


Finally got the back cover open. The movement number is 3019379.

Domenico


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Welcome to the forum, Domenico, and congratulations on your Zenith. I suppose this is a 0.800 silver case? I would estimate it was produced in 1938. 

Maybe if you have more pictures of the innards and the diameter of the movement, Hartmut will be able to tell you more.


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

sempervivens said:


> Welcome to the forum, Domenico, and congratulations on your Zenith. I suppose this is a 0.800 silver case? I would estimate it was produced in 1938.
> 
> Maybe if you have more pictures of the innards and the diameter of the movement, Hartmut will be able to tell you more.


Dear Sir,

Thanks for getting back. 0.800 case, yes. Please find here some more pictures:


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

dmusone said:


> Dear Sir,
> 
> Thanks for getting back. 0.800 case, yes. Please find here some more pictures:
> 
> View attachment 16341496


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

dmusone said:


> View attachment 16341498


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

dmusone said:


> View attachment 16341500


Hi, The diameter of the whole watch is 50mm and the movement around 45mm.
Domenico


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Around 45mm?!! That would be huge! I would expect the visible part of the movement to be ca. 40.5mm for a 43.5mm movement (there is a hidden lip, dial side) which would indicate a 19''' N.V.S.I _lep_. or more modern designation 19'''-34-1. 45mm would be the largest size they made in those days: 20 1/2''' N.V.S.I _lep_. and even then, the visible part should be a little smaller (44mm?). Please check again and let us know the more accurate measurement. Many thanks.

Hartmut Richter


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Around 45mm?!! That would be huge! I would expect the visible part of the movement to be ca. 40.5mm for a 43.5mm movement (there is a hidden lip, dial side) which would indicate a 19''' N.V.S.I _lep_. or more modern designation 19'''-34-1. 45mm would be the largest size they made in those days: 20 1/2''' N.V.S.I _lep_. and even then, the visible part should be a little smaller (44mm?). Please check again and let us know the more accurate measurement. Many thanks.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Dear Hartmut, thanks for your kind comment. My measurement was just an estimate as I closed the back covers and don't want to open them again as it was quite difficult. Anyway, Zenith just got back a few minutes ago and confirmed it's from 1937 and the caliber is Zenith Manufacture Caliber 19 T.N.V.I. Seems the watch hasn't been touched since 1949 and I just put it in motion last week and it works great. Quite amazing! Thank you so much to you and semprevivens for your valuable comments.

Happy New Year!

Domenico Musone


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Thanks for getting back and congratulations on your Zenith which looks in excellent condition.


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## dmusone (Jan 4, 2022)

sempervivens said:


> Thanks for getting back and congratulations on your Zenith which looks in excellent condit


The movement looks quite pristine, yes, and pretty much also the rest of the nice watch. Thanks again to you guys for the help.

Domenico


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## ghila (8 mo ago)

Hi everyone, 

I was looking for informations about my great-grand father Zenith Grand Prix 1900. His watch serial number is 8089020, blue hands and roman numbers.
Thank you all.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Welcome to Watchuseek! I am sorry but in order to be able to tell you much more, we would need to see the movement. You will need to open the inner back cover as well - it should be opened in much the same manner as the outer back cover but will be somewhat stiffer. All I can say is that the reference to the Grand Prix won in 1900 makes it post-1900 but the fact that it is pin set (you set the time by depressing the pin next to the winding stem) shows that it has an older movement type, replaced in 1905 and used up in dwindling quantities for a few years more. So: 1900-1910, with the most likely being 1900-1905.

Hartmut Richter


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## ghila (8 mo ago)

Hi Hartmut and thank you very much, 

I was able to open it and this is the movement inside. 










Also what is the small hand inside, around the letters A R F S.

Thank you
Alessandro


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Hi Alessandro, Welcome to the forum also from me and congratulations on your Zenith heirloom. Movement and case number date it ca. 1936. In that period (towards the end of the Great Depression) Zenith used up many old movements, which explains why this old fashioned pin set movement was still used at this late date.
The 'small hand inside' is the regulator to adjust the movement in the direction of a(vance) = F(aster) or r(etard)= s(lower).


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

That is very odd: a post-1905 movement without the snail cam regulating mechanism and with pin setting in the keyless works! It looks like the Cal. 19''' N.V.I but heavens knows why they mde it pin set. Maybe they needed to use up old stock of cases.....?! 

Hartmut Richter


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## Christian vdB (7 mo ago)

Hello there, I have a slightly strange one, curious for your opinions.

Grand Prix 1900 15 rubis, case number 076123, and no movement number that I can see. Would be interested in any insights you might have. Overall width (outer dimension) of the case looks to be about 31mm. Family heirloom, unsure of history as no living relatives recognise it. A little battered, and runs a little reluctantly; there's a general air of wanting a little TLC.

Thanks in advance.

Christian vdB


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Ah, that one has a movement that was used until 1905 and then phased out (used for a few more years as old stock but basically replaced by the N.V.S. series). It is known technically as the Cal. 278 series (so if you have a 19''' movement, it would be 19'''-278 B _lep_. since it is a _lepine _movement). That makes it a watch from the first decade of the 20th century.

Hartmut Richter


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## Christian vdB (7 mo ago)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Ah, that one has a movement that was used until 1905 and then phased out (used for a few more years as old stock but basically replaced by the N.V.S. series). It is known technically as the Cal. 278 series (so if you have a 19''' movement, it would be 19'''-278 B _lep_. since it is a _lepine _movement). That makes it a watch from the first decade of the 20th century.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Wow, thank you! No wonder it looks like it's been through the wars...


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## Taunus (4 mo ago)

Hello, i just joined this community because i was really wondering when this Zenith Grand Prix Paris 1900 pocket watch that i have was produced. Does anybody know when this Zenith Grand Prix Paris 1900 was produced? The serial number on it is 3457537 , it was my great grandfathers and we live in Turkey and my family says it was most likely purchased in 1920s but they arent exactly sure either. It also says 0.800 and FFBA 34 on the inside part of the top cover that is no longer attached to the watch
Also Turkey switched to the Latin alphabet and the normal european numbering scheme in early 1920s, before that it was arabic alphabet with arabic numerals like in the watch of the first guy that posted his watch in this thread but mine has the latin alphabet and european numbering so i think it is indeed from 1920s but im wondering the exact year if anybody knows from the serial number


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Welcome to Watchuseek! The watch can be dated by the movement serial number which shows that it was a little outside the twenties: the manufacture year is 1935-36. The "0.800" shows that the case is 80% silver and the FFBA is the _Fédération des Fabricants de Boites Argent_ (Federation of Silver [Watch] Case Makers). If you still have the front bezel with crystal, it may well be worth having it repaired.

Hartmut Richter


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## Taunus (4 mo ago)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to Watchuseek! The watch can be dated by the movement serial number which shows that it was a little outside the twenties: the manufacture year is 1935-36. The "0.800" shows that the case is 80% silver and the FFBA is the _Fédération des Fabricants de Boites Argent_ (Federation of Silver [Watch] Case Makers). If you still have the front bezel with crystal, it may well be worth having it repaired.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you so much for the valuable information and yes i still have the front bezel, i will get this watch repaired one day if i can find a shop here in turkey that can do it.


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## Mr.Timucin (3 mo ago)

Hi , I would like to get an idea of the value and production date of this watch, which belongs to my grandfather's grand prix paris, 15 rubis, serial number 3456909, can you help?


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Welcome to Watchuseek. Value? Whatever someone is willing to pay for it! (Meaning that we don't give valuations ere since it is too difficult to be precise.) Age? We would need the *movement* serial number rather than the case serial number - for which you would have to open up the inner lid.

Hartmut Richter


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## Mr.Timucin (3 mo ago)

Thank you. I will share the serial number photo with you as soon as possible


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Going by the case number I think we can expect a movement c. 1937/38 (like the one posted earlier in this thread by dmusone).


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