# Should I trade my Lemania 5100 powered Fortis B-42 Cosmonaut LE Titanium (644.27.11) for a Rolex?



## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

I've had this watch for 5-6 years; I love it, but use it rarely, since I've not been doing any flying recently. It comes out for a yacht race but then gets put back in its box since it's running at a consistent +20s and is probably due a service sometime this year.

I've been offered a Rolex GMT II, 16710, New Old Stock, at roughly the price of a good used one. The hidden cost would be the probable need to sell the Fortis to pay for it. The trouble with this model (the limited run 644.27.11) is that only 500 were ever made, and it's pretty much irreplaceable. OTOH, I could replace the chrono functionality with something like a Breitlng M1 - titanium, centre minute chrono hand - which would be more useful for sailing, with the ability to set it to countdown to the gun - for less money.

It took me 18 months to find this one, and 6 months to negotiate the purchase; mine has been re-lumed and is almost as good, at night, as my Omega SMP 2264; it also comes complete with the box and the zipped leather case. I see perhaps 2-3 a year for sale, so I can assume that it won;t be easy to find another. I'll probably regret if I sell, simply due to familiarity, and the fact it's a very good watch. But it's not the only watch I'd like to try and I have been hankering after a Rolex for 4-5 years.

What should I do? Help me decide, please


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

Hello,
No, I would not trade a Lemania 5100 equipped Fortis chronograph for a Rolex GMT master. As great as the GMT Master is, I think the rarity of the Fortis and its functionality precludes the trade.

heb


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## Still Ticking (Nov 24, 2007)

I would keep that Fortis. A GMT should always be an easy piece to find when funds allow.


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## Takemusu (Feb 8, 2012)

If the Rolex is the watch of your heart go for it. If you like the relative uniqueness of the Fortis more than the thoughts of the Rolex, keep it. 

Bear in mind the differences in the function of the Rolex GMT vs the Fortis—the Rolex has a jumping 12 hour hand, the Fortis has a jumping 24 hour hand.


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## alamf (Oct 8, 2010)

To the best of my knowledge your Fortis and the Tutima 750-20 are the only watches with the following features:
day/date
divers bezel
lemania 5100
titanium

Both are my Grails. I sent you a couple messages a few years back about your watch. 1 day I will own either one or both. With that said if you don't wear it.... I have had 2 watches I sold and 1 was able to repurchase. I just sold it. The 2nd one I will buy when stock becomes available. Tastes do change. It is a rare watch that has come up a few times in the past few years. I struggle with the same dilemma. I have an X-33 1st gen that I had serviced 2.5 years ago. She now needs another servicing. 1 of the pushers always goes bad. Do I get another service on her knowing the same issue will happen again? It has a feature I love. Once the countdown ends it continues to count up. If another watch has the same feature I might just buy one. Think long and hard about it. At the end of the day you have to weigh the fact of not wearing it with wearing it. I enjoy Rolex but now a days you just about have to have Rolex service them, boooo. I've owned several and have an explorer II 40mm and a SeaDweller. I miss my Thunderbird and might buy another but they are a dime a dozen. The Fortis is special but if you don't wear it what good is she? Unless you are like me and look at your watches like art. I get great pleasure from just looking at my watches. If I had the money I'd say name your price and I'd buy it in a minute! lol. It is a tough call. Trust me and others, we have been there and only you can make the decision.


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## alamf (Oct 8, 2010)

If you decide to sell her I am more than willing to give you a down payment and make monthly installments!


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## canuck88 (Apr 4, 2006)

Yes, you should - and you should sell it to me


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## i20sailor (Aug 28, 2014)

I don't find any automatic watch ideal for sail boat racing. Any basic digital watch works better. Garmin Quatix is the best I found so far.


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## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

Interesting feedback from a fellow sailor... I tried an experiment in Wednesday's race - Fortis on one wrist and Casio G 5600 on the other. The Casio has a countdown time, but you can't see both the local time display and the CDT simultaneously. so you need to switch from one to the other as the time for the 10 minute signal approaches; whereas with the Fortis I can monitor the local time and press the pusher (which is much easier to find and operate than the tiny buttons the Casio uses) as you see the signal. When it comes to reading the time to the gun, the digital display is more precise - advising that we now have 1 min 20 secs to the gun; whereas the analogue display doesn't need to be "read" - you just intuitively know how long remains. 

Personally I prefer the analogue, for my own use, but if I had a boat with cabin top or on mast digital displays, I'd put the time up on those so the crew could read them easily. The 251.2X2 movement in the M1 and other quartz chronos has the "regatta" feature - countdown converting to count up - and split timing functionality, so that you can compare time at a mark to boats ahead or astern and see how you're doing. That's a better function to my mind than either digital or the mechanical Lemania 5100, but I have to say that I prefer the aesthetics of the Fortis to those of the M1.

I'm thinking at the moment that I'll probably sell the two Omegas, which are fairly replaceable, to fund the GMT II, and keep the Fortis, which is not.


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## U R a Bus (Nov 29, 2012)

Jack,

As a fellow 644.27.11 owner, I can maybe understand that you swap the daddy for another watch, but NOT for a watch where there are a million made of.

So, as my wife (non watch lover) once said to me when I was plannig to sell one of my grails. You'll feel happy when you get the money and after a week, you'll regret it that you sold it. And when we really need the money, you still can sell it.

gr.
Kris


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## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

Well - coming up for 4 years on - an update...

I sold several watches, including the Speedy Pro, added cash from some earlier sales and (with my wife's forbearance) a little from our joint bank account and bought the Rolex GMT. It's been an excellent watch which has had a regular place in my rotation and tends to get the most use of any of the current four. It's one of the most versatile watches made - a choice of three bezels - Black, Coke and Pepsi - I have all three; two bracelets - Oyster and Jubilee - and the option to wear it on a NATO. Financially it's also been an excellent investment, too, with the ever-rising prices of sports Rolexes lifting its value well above what I paid for it.










Was it worth the sale of the Fortis? Well, I have tried some alternatives...

I had a Breitling M1 for a year, and really wanted to like it better, since the combination of waterproof pushers, the quick-set hour hand for travel and the "regatta" feature would have been ideal for sailing. But it was taller and always felt a bit vulnerable because of that; the bezel, dial and hands were less legible than the Fortis, and the Breitling service rip-off - they insist on a full and very expensive service when you only want to have minor things dealt with - turned me against the brand.









Then, last year I tried again with another Revue Thommen, which is also a titanium-cased full spec 7-hand Lemania 5100, with the added benefit of the countdown bezel. Another, because I'd previously had 5 or 6 of the ETA 251.262 quartz models, and one of the Lemania 5100. I still have that, though I've thought about selling or trading it for something else.









...and I've thought of a few more:

The Sinn EZM1, or the EZM1.1 remake. Now, I really would love to have one of these, but the trouble is that one of my main justifications for having a chronograph is for timing things, sometimes over an extended period or more than an hour; and one of the things I tend to time is yacht races, when it's important to be able to know within a few seconds when the warning 10 or 5 minutes signal is about to sound. Otherwise, you're ducking and weaving near the start line and looking out for the committee boat when you should be looking out for other boats. So, much as I love the Sinn, it could only ever be an addition to a full spec centre-minute chronograph; not a replacement. And that's quite a lot of cash for an additional toy.









The Tutima M2 - as advertised on another boat at last year's Cowes Week Regatta. I like the functionality though I'd miss the day window and the full 60 minute bezel markers. If you want a new, full spec centre-minute auto chronograph, though, it's pretty the Sinn 140A, the Breguet XXI (for a lot more money) or this.

















But after that, the realisation has been that there's pretty much no other chronographs quite as good, quite as fit for purpose, as the Fortis 644.27.11. The things that really make it so are:

The size and legibility - which tend to go together. But the Fortis offers a superb effective double anti-reflective coating which makes the crystal practically invisible; the centre-minute chrono and the silver on black bezel 60-minute bezel markers plus the dayglo red Chrono hands beat any other combination for at-a-glance legibility.

The day and date windows. These sorts of watch tend to be a holiday watch - and when I'm away doing something active, like sailing or skiing, I fund it easy to forget what day of the week it is (and yes, I know we all have phones) so the day display does have a genuine utility.

The titanium case - the Fortis B-42 is quite a chunky case and in still, on a bracelet, weighs a lot; in titanium it's very comfortable, and non-allergenic, which is handy when you're in a warm, wet environment, like a sailing boat.

So the really good news is that I never sold the Fortis and, whilst the acquisition of the Rolex and the Revue Thommen and the fact that I stopped flying a few years ago means that it's had less use than in the past, it's still a great watch that I enjoy wearing. Thank to those who discouraged me from flipping it!

And here it is last year at the Cowes Week Sailing Regatta in England, getting ready for the start of a race.


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## diablogt (Oct 11, 2009)

Lol your mindset sounds like mine really. I thought this is a new thread and was about to recommend keeping the Fortis and also buying the Rolex since the Fortis would really get you at most $1,xxx (admittedly knowing by hindsight that Rolex price is increasing noticeably). And for a tool watch what can be better than the Fortis at that price range? A Sinn maybe but it would definitely cost more for the chrono and then the hassle of selling buying. Congrats on both watches.


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## Thirdgenbird (Feb 21, 2015)

I’ve gone through a fair number of watches in the last 3 years and settled on two main ones:
Rolex Explorer II
A-13A (another 100m water resistant central minute chrono)

I’m not sure there is a better two watch combo for me right now.


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## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes - combination of a centre-minute chrono with decent WR, plus a well built travellers' GMT like the Explorer II or GMT II covers pretty much all the bases one might need.


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## Thirdgenbird (Feb 21, 2015)

The A-13A has also has a jumping hour hand so it makes a great travel watch in addition to being a 100m water resistant central-minute chrono.


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## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

Quick update:

I still have the Fortis, which has proven over the last decade to have a limpet-like grip on my affections, and often my wrist, too. I still have the Rolex 16710, too. In the meantime, the Revue Thommen with the Lemania 5100 was passed on to another member and was replaced, briefly, by a quartz model A-13A - an excellent watch which I'd have liked to keep. But that went in a trade as a partial contribution towards a Sinn 140A LE, with the Sinn SZ01 movement.

The Sinn was something I had wanted to try for a long time. Well, to be clear, the Sinn movement was something I wanted to try since it powers the Sinn EZM1.1 and the EZM10, as well as the 140. As I mentioned previously, I couldn't rationalise having just the stripped-down EZM1 or 1.1, and the EZM10 is perilously close to the Fortis. But the Sinn 140A has a stunning aesthetic; it's much dressier than the Fortis and the shape and finish of the case is rather different.

The 140 has been a really special watch. The SZ01 movement is superb. It has the centre minute display, which I am really wedded to, on account of the much greater legibility than afforded by the 30-minute subdial type of chronograph, and it carries across from the base Valjoux 7750 the "jumping minute" feature. That is, the central chronograph minute hand advances by 1-minute division on the circumference of the dial, as the chronograph second-hand passes the 60-minute marker. This makes for precise reading of elapsed time.

Apart from that, I've really enjoyed the high quality of the finish, which in Sinn's Tegimented steel, is very hard to mark, so it preserves its appearance. It has the clever Sinn anti-moisture technology - the moisture disclosing capsule in the case side, the Ar (actually, I believe, nitrogen) fill; and the D-3 pushers which can safely be operated underwater.

About the only downsides I can think of are the placement of the crown for the internal bezel, and the panda sub-dials. As a right-hander, I found the bezel crown hard to operate compared to a simple click-stop external bezel. And the legibility of the lumed hands against the silvery-white registers is less good than against the black of the dial.

However, that said, I'm moving it on, and the Sinn is on the market. Why? Well, despite its excellence it's competing too closely in terms of functionality with the Fortis, and there are other watches I'd like to try. But I can recommend it and, looking at the pictures below, I'm feeling very ambiguous as to whether I really want to let it go.


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