# Venting: Final Straw for me with Panerai's New Models



## notloc08 (Aug 18, 2009)

I've been a long time Panerai fan. I was initially drawn to the brand based on its unique design, historical aspects, rock solid construction, and the ability to swap straps and completely change the feel of the watch. I bought my first Panerai, the 112, quite a few years back and have loved owning it during that time period. It remains at the very core of my collection.

However, since that time the brand has taken a new direction with their base models among others. Let's call it the "Less is Less" direction. It started with the 634 - in my opinion a trojan horse released upon the Panerai loyal to showcase this new direction and drum up support for it. Marketing-wise I can't fault them because if you bought the loyalty of the biggest diehards, you've completed a significant accomplishment and smoothed the transition into your lesser models.

After this initial test, Panerai released the 630 and the 632 to many of the brand's fans' dismay. It confirmed the fears of some that the same changes touted as "upgrades" by Panerai - mainly the spring bars instead of screws, integrated bezel construction, and the joke of a snap-on caseback - would make it into production. However, at the time I thought that this was fine or at the very least understandable from a corporate perspective. I get it, Panerai needed to keep the entry level costs down and attract new customers to the brand. I figured coming out with cheaper half-bred PAMs might be met with a decent sized backlash or maybe these wouldn't sell well and the brand managers might take note.

Recently, Panerai also came out with its Luminor Due line. These watches are water resistant to a mere 3 bars or 30 meters and yet Panerai saw fit to equip them with the iconic crown guard and dub them Luminors. The only message that sends to me is that the CG and Luminor status has been relegated to that of a marketing tool. In case Panerai is not aware, most people don't even wear watches rated to 30 meters into a shower, much less a pool. In comparison, my JLC Master Ultra Thin Moon, possibly one of the dressiest stainless steel watches out there, is depth rated to 5 bar or 50 meters.

Now here's the problem. 30 meters is fine for a dress watch, don't get me wrong. Brands are able to venture into new areas too. But in case Panerai forgot, at the very root of everything their entire reputation and brand was built off of was their Italian dive heritage. A tool watch that was built for anything; the original G shock; lume that remained so bright you could see it underwater in the pitch black. The Luminor Due, while perhaps a fine dress watch by the standards of some, is a mere facade of that which is Panerai. It contains the visual elements of the brand without any substance to back it up. Unfortunately, I'm not done with this analysis yet.

I can get past all that. It's just a watch brand at the end of the day. Right? WRONG. Recently I read an article about the upcoming or possibly already introduced Panerai 1000 and 1005. Here are links to the Panerai website: Luminor Base Logo Acciaio - 44mm PAM01000 - Collection Luminor - Officine Panerai Watches And Pam 1005 here: Luminor Marina Logo Acciaio - 44mm PAM01005 - Collection Luminor - Officine Panerai Watches

Now if you'll notice, the ETA powered 1000 and 1005 are to be the replacements of two of the most popular Panerai models - the 000 and 005. To many, these represented the essential elements of what it means to be a Panerai watch. The sausage lume, the closed caseback, the crown guard, beautiful luminor case, and especially the logo which contains both arrows pointing to the sea and the sky. However, if I may draw your attention to the new 1000 and 1005 models you will notice that they too utilize spring bars instead of screws, an integrated bezel, and the snap-on caseback. These are touted as upgrades, yet all these features amount to are cost cutting. As far as I'm concerned there is no justification for them. These are features found on $50 watches you can find in the mall. Water resistance is also down from 300m to 100m. To put this into perspective 100m water resistance can be found in watches under $300. Eta powered base movements can be found in many watches under $1000 and that's being generous.

The departure from 300m to 100m is one thing, and actually I don't mind that too much because for all intents and purposes that's more than sufficient. What bothers me is the snap on caseback. Right or wrong, I don't trust a snap-on caseback for any water resistance. Certainly not in a bonafide dive watch sold by Panerai of all brands. In addition, the new 1000 and 1005 will be sold without a screwdriver for obvious reasons, and without a second strap. Evidence of even further cost cutting. All at a time when brands within this sub-$5000 range are offering more than ever. Look at the Tudor Pelagos in comparison. It blows these watches out of the water in every single technical category.

The gutting of THE most quintessential Panerai base models is the final straw for me, and unless this direction changes, I don't see myself buying another modern PAM or respecting the brand as I once did. The new 1000 and 1005 don't deserve the arrow pointed down in the OP logo, they are simply not legitimate dive watches anymore with a snap on caseback. I can't imagine this saves Panerai a ton of money to ax the screws and screw on caseback, or even the integrated bezel, and don't think it was worth it to compromise the brand's integrity and reputation for something so shallow. At the end of the day I get it, it's a corporate brand and they can do whatever they want. It just a shame that they've done this to a brand so many have a special place for.


----------



## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

I've done it since several years ago,that's why my last several Panerai purchases are all pre owned models (345,339,168) from the time when they still get things quite right....even my current daily wear is pam92G from 12 years ago...


----------



## crazyfingers (Jun 3, 2009)

Some very good points mentioned and I agree, these aren't 'dive watches' anymore, just styled like one. I'm glad I managed to get my hands on a 005 before they went out of production.


----------



## Ruby8six (Apr 26, 2015)

I dont even see the 112 on their site anymore.

Is that one done as well?

Glad I got mine


----------



## omega1300 (Jun 24, 2010)

Ruby8six said:


> I dont even see the 112 on their site anymore.
> 
> Is that one done as well?
> 
> Glad I got mine


Hope not...for the past few months I've been waiting in the wings and debating between a 112 and Speedmaster. Tough choice! Hope to be able to debate just a while longer.


----------



## Ruby8six (Apr 26, 2015)

omega1300 said:


> Hope not...for the past few months I've been waiting in the wings and debating between a 112 and Speedmaster. Tough choice! Hope to be able to debate just a while longer.


Get the 112 just to be safe 

Speedy will be there no matter what for you later.


----------



## kaiserphoenix (Jan 2, 2011)

I agree with everything the OP has mentioned although I think Panerai had never really marketed these as a "dive" watch in the first place. I mean it doesn't even have bezels so it was never all that useful as a dive watch tbh. Having said that everything you said makes sense and most of the new stuff is not that great. I do however like the complicated panerais tho, I think sooner or later the brand does have to keep evolving. Just the way they are doing it now with the low end stuff is terrible, cut costs to cut prices but quality has been cut so drastically but marginal reduction in price when u mention correctly Tudor or even omega, longines etc can produce much better watches in this price range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

I share a lot of your sentiment. Well phrased OP.


----------



## borebillon (Jul 26, 2015)

This, combined with the horror stories about Panerai servicing stopped me buying an older Luminor chrono a couple of weeks ago. I find the brand a bit plastic, a bit manufactured. And yes, I know all brands are manufactured but they need to be careful not to make them feel that way.


----------



## brioni007 (Jul 13, 2016)

You may consider me a panerai fanboy as I love the watches with the historical DNA (which some say it's just a lot of bs created in the last 10 years) and I believe the company must stay true to its roots. 

BUT a company must generate profits
in this respect panerai story is gonna be like porsche
more volume, bigger profits
and nobody cares about fanboys
it's all about making the money

25 years ago it was cool to drive a porsche, now anybody has oneo|
same will happen with panerai
the due is the cayenne


----------



## P1723 (Dec 20, 2013)

Agree with TS.
Just like what I learnt in school,businesses either go unique or cost leadership.
It was unique of Panerai for the history and I think no matter how their strategy changes,the principle of maintaining a minimum of 100mWR has to be there.
It's a dive watch!


----------



## Wlover (Dec 12, 2011)

Cost leadership is for budget watches like casio, seiko, etc.

Luxury brands cannot take this route or quality and brand value go down the drain. Focus should always be on quality and innovation and not taking away what is unique about the brand.

Putting spring bars on panerai is like taking the fun (i.e. turbo) out of a porsche. Putting a snap back case on a dive watch is like selling cars with out safety belt. Disaster waiting to happen.



P1723 said:


> Agree with TS.
> Just like what I learnt in school,businesses either go unique or cost leadership.
> It was unique of Panerai for the history and I think no matter how their strategy changes,the principle of maintaining a minimum of 100mWR has to be there.
> It's a dive watch!


----------



## Wlover (Dec 12, 2011)

Just like to add that panerai could have considered doing what Rolex did with the Tudor brand. 

Basically retaining the quality and high standards of panerai but at the same time start a sister brand and share same design but maybe cheaper production requirement like the snap on case back and springbar on the sister brand.

That would have ensured panerai's brand equity is maintained while attracting the young, affluent and up and coming market into the entry level luxury segment with a sister brand.

maybe can call it Pandor or something.. Lol


----------



## GX9901 (May 13, 2009)

I haven't kept up with the newer Panerai models much, and did not know about models using spring bars. Do those models have drilled lugs? If so, I actually think that's preferable to both the screw bars and quick release lug bars since they are the easiest to change straps on. If they don't have drilled lugs though, I too would consider them a step back.

Snapped on caseback does sound kind of ghetto though. There has to be a better reason than cost savings to use them right? I mean, my micro-brand and cheap Seiko divers all have screw casebacks. How expensive could they be to produce?

At lease I can now recommend the Luminor Due to a lady friend who expressed interest in getting a Luminor some day.

BTW, are my 312 & 560 considered "real" Panerai??? I sure hope so.


----------



## Maxy (Aug 15, 2011)

Is there a movement difference between PAM000 vs PAM1000 and PAM005 vs PAM1005?


----------



## Dicedealer7 (Mar 30, 2015)

Maxy said:


> Is there a movement difference between PAM000 vs PAM1000 and PAM005 vs PAM1005?


No. Same movements.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Estilo (Apr 11, 2014)

You've been feeling exactly how I felt when I read about the 01000 and the 01005, OP. What just bewildered me was that this was a full-on cheapening of the 000 and the 005, i.e. there is literally no objective, and hardly and subjective, ways to see these updates as upgrades; it's a straight up way of saving on costs by getting rid of absolute fundamentals. What I also found perplexing is that the luxury watch market is in a limbo right now, and in Hodinkee's report on the Swiss industry's 1H16 results, Richemont doesn't see this trend ending any time soon. So that move of theirs is such a brilliant one, eh? I understand the need to try to grow margins without sacrificing volume, but the art of business is in cutting corners where you can whilst simultaneously giving the perception of higher value to the consumer.

I agree with WLover above, if they had done those 'cheapening' measures on a new model set at a lower price point, irregardless it bearing the "Panerai" brand or a lower-tier associate, could have provided a lifeline for them. Not this, definitely.

Also, might I add that I initially _thought _they were going to put in house calibers in the 01000 and 01005 and let that justify the cheapening factors. I'm speechless now..


----------



## 2500M_Sub (Apr 12, 2008)

Wow, I had no idea. Snap on case backs and 3 ATM water resistance. I took delivery of my 2500m Submersible back in 2005 and I thought the brand was going upscale with in-house movements etc. but this is not cool! No justification in my mind, I know they need to sell watches but these measures will diminish the brand, as these are supposed to be modern day interpretations of military grade dive watches from back in the day. Sad really. 

Regards,

Ren


----------



## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Having vent about this...has anyone ever had a chance to play around with the carbotech pam? Is it any good or is it just another gimmick that is actually bound for future flop? I kinda like it but I kinda doubt it as well


----------



## dj00tiek (May 27, 2009)

I have to agree on most of the brought up points of the topicstarter. It is ridiculous to make a dive watch with history of diving 30 meters waterproof. Can you image what would happen if Rolex would do this with it's submariners? No more 300meter, sorry we have to cut the costs but still ask the same prices for the watches to make more money, new submariners will be rated 30 meters waterproof now.. I think Rolex would throw away it's name and a lot of people would find it very ridiculous. With Panerai it's more like an exclusive watch brand, so less people mind so much about it. But I think it's horrible. A brand should try to evolve


----------



## Dicedealer7 (Mar 30, 2015)

P1723 said:


> Agree with TS.
> Just like what I learnt in school,businesses either go unique or cost leadership.
> It was unique of Panerai for the history and I think no matter how their strategy changes,the principle of maintaining a minimum of 100mWR has to be there.
> It's a dive watch!


My Rolex datejust2 has a 100 meter rating... It's not a dive watch. 
Panerai messed up big time on this move.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Heinz (Jul 16, 2013)

I know it's the entry models they're generally doing this with (as opposed to the high enders like the Equation of Time) but damn...

Lot of other options at 4500 bucks. Like, a pre owned 000 or 005.


----------



## gaoxing84 (Aug 18, 2009)

As a ex pam005 owner, i am with you. I think Richemont and Pam is going the wrong way and pissing panerai fans off.
with the new range of base historic pams, the change of 300WR to 100WR with a pressure caseback.

it seems so wrong on so many levels.
damn it, i gotta snag 000 soon before its out for good!


----------



## iam7head (Dec 16, 2010)

You summed it up pretty much, for me those are some of the worst move you can make at this point. 

I can accept the price hike with the inhouse movement, i gladly pay more but why cant they just retire the ETA model with some grace? With the 8 days 5000cal movement, there is zero incentives to ops for the 1000,1005 "limp mode" opening price point PAM. 

Seems like they are taking a a step forward and taking two stepback. 

Combined with the crappy after sale service and poor workmanship, its hard to justify to buy more PAM for me. 

The strap changing experience is so unique to PAM owner, putting a run of the mill spring bar there just kills all the user touch point and experience. They even take away the rubber strap, when you factor in the price vs downgrade, the older 005/000 is actually a better buy. 





Sent from my fax machine using Tapatalk


----------



## uncleed (Nov 4, 2012)

Just like Mercedes makes a CLA for 30k....they also make a Maybach for 200k....people know....it's just hitting a differenct price point....every luxury brand comes down market...but those who are true fans of that particular brand know the BS from the real deal.


----------



## Ayoungentrepreneur (Jan 12, 2009)

Great thread and lots of helpful information (and speculation). Helped me choose a 000 over the _new and improved_ 1000.

While I am newbie to Panerai, I have seen the "less for more strategy" used by many of the "nicer" manufacturers. That said, spring bars, single piece case construction and water resistance don't herald the end of Panerai being an enthusiast's watch. As mentioned above, the in-house movements with prohibitive service costs is what seals the deal. Now, I am all for in-house movements, design and exclusivity - but at what cost? My watchmaker charges me $75 to service a base Panerai with a Unitas movement. Panerai quoted me roughly $650 for the same watch (not including parts). Stated otherwise, I can have my 000, 112 and 176 serviced for the next *15 years *at by my local watchmaker (who BTW has a quicker turn around time and is a small business) all for the cost of 1 service at Panerai Texas?!

So if I choose to have my Unitas-based Panerai service via Panerai that is my *choice *- and should I only own 2 watches in my collection, maybe I would choose to get them serviced at the manufacturer - but I have yet to find an independent watchmaker who would work on the new in-house movements. Why, you may ask? Because Panerai won't sell parts. That simple.

I plan to add a Radiomir base in the near future and actually thought about the Pam610, but servicing an eight day movement at Panerai will not be cheap and will likely exceed the cost of a good condition Pam210 in less than 15 years of ownership.

Granted, a manufacturer may decide to charge what ever they think they could get from the customer for the service, and if this was a movement with x amount of complications (say a perpetual calendar or the like) a service cost near the $1k mark would resonate well, but do not forget that the base and marina models aren't complication movements!

In all likelihood, Panerai will not back down on its pricing model and that is fine for their shareholders if they still will turn a profit (I will leave that for the analysts here :])

But for the rest of us enthusiasts, Unitas Panerais are the way to go.


----------

