# Orient vs Seiko



## ghorn11

Hello all, I'm new to the site and to the obsession and am looking to grab a few entry level watches. I was planning on a seiko skx007 and possibly a Seiko 5 with the metal bracelet. Then I stumbled upon Orient through WUS. They both seem to offer similar styles at fairly similar price points. What is the difference in price/quality between the two? Why should I chose Orient over Seiko, or vise versa? 

Thanks!


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## RejZoR

Orient seems to have better bracelets on lower grade models than Seiko. At least if compare my two which cost me around the same.


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## tankbustaz

for the same money spent on skx007, u can buy 2 orient mako
orient is cheaper, more value for money


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## Surfstang2020

I have a seiko coutora and an orient yellow mako I like both of them as they are both really good watches . If I had to choose between both I'd probably choose the orient because of the quality at the price point it looks like a much more expensive watch than it is 


Sent from your moms phone


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## wiarumas

You won't be able to notice the differences between the two so go for personal taste in aesthetics and price. The 007 is arguably the better watch at twice the price (a trivial amount better, if at all), but the mako/ray offers more dollar for dollar.

If your heart is set on the 007, get it, skip the seiko 5 and buy an orient. If your heart isn't set on the seiko, shop around and feel free that there is no difference in quality between seiko or orient and buy what you like.


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## conjurer

As much as I love Orient, the 007 is a better watch than the Ray/Mako--indeed, IMHO, there's no Orient diver that compares favorably with what Seiko offers until you get to the OS300, with the possible exception of the Revolver, which isn't in production, as far as I know. The Ray/Makos that I've owned were more accurate than the single 007 that I had, however.


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## rupp

i was pretty much in the same boat as you. i was set on buying seiko brand, i was just trying to decide on a model. then i ended up at wus and discovered orient. after reading the forums for a month or so, i eventually settled on orient brand for two reasons. 1) bang for buck, i'm a sucker for a deal and from everything i could gather the quality difference is minimal at best 2) seiko's are like belly buttons. ie everyone has them. so with orient, at least you get a uniqueness factor


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## Kiter

I have several Seikos, 009, BFK, 6309, but it was a Orient Diver that started the ball rolling... I got this quartz diver in 1991, it is my longest owned watch and looks good for its age!!
View attachment 984135


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## Storm27m

I have a SKX007 and a Mako. The fit and finish of the WATCH is better on the SKX. The stock bracelet is better on the Mako. If it were my wallet and I had to choose between the two, I'd get the Mako. The price difference between it and the SKX should leave you enough to get a Seiko 5.


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## rybak

Good morning Gentleman,

I don't think it's a good idea to compare SKX007 or any Seiko diver watch to Mako, or similar Orients in regard of price, because they are simply non-comparable in this aspect.

SKX-series (007, 009, and so on) are real divers acc. to ISO 6425, and Mako-series are just water resistant watches.
Yes, they are 200m WR, they are of diver's look, but no "diver's".

"Real divers" means special requirements regarding not only WR, but among others also characteristics of lume and its location, bracelet and even spring bars. Moreover, also some ISO-defined tests must be done.

It's all costs money - and this is the reason, why SKX are more expensive.

For me, question would be - do I need 1. an ISO-diver watch, or 2. just a 200WR watch with some diver characteristics would be enough for me (and my money ;-) ).

If the first, then --> SKX007, or Monster, or... whatever ISO-tested. I have also a NY0040 from Citizen, very nice ISO-watch.

If two, then --> Mako, Ray, or Big Mac with its ****ty lume ;-)

Another feature of Mako / Big Mac, or Ray I don't like (similar Dolphin doesn't have it) is a glas, which is slightly sticking out of bezel, shaping a kind of edge.
Diver's watches I've seen so far, had all glasses which are installed lower then a bezel frame, so nothing is higher then a bezel, and there are no edges.

I damaged one of my Makos ca. 3 years ago in an indoor swimming pool - had hit any tile edge just with this part of watch. 
Result - broken glass and water inside.

See the photo

View attachment 984646


On the other side - Orients with 46943 are more accurate then my Seiko watches with 7S26, or 4R16.

So, in a nutshell - what would I like to do with the watch? 
And what is necessary for this purpose?

Answer, decide, mission completed ;-)


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## WnS

Orient / Orient Star are noticeably more high end than standard Seiko. You also get more complications like Power Reserve and GMT. Better value too if you ask me. Seiko outshines Orient / Orient Star when you reach the Ananta and Grand Seiko variants.


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## ghorn11

Thanks for all of the replies. I think I will still do the 007 for the mod factor but look at orient for the thinner/classier look. Or I'll just buy way too many of both. Probably the latter.


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## ManMachine

Unless you actually dive to 200 m, it won't make that much difference imo. I'm just not a fan of 007 design - mods put it at least $300, while Orient Ray is good to go from the box. Neither bracelets are great, so get the cheaper rubber and use other straps/bracelets.


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## kore

i prefer orient than seiko 5


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## RejZoR

WnS said:


> Orient / Orient Star are noticeably more high end than standard Seiko. You also get more complications like Power Reserve and GMT. Better value too if you ask me. Seiko outshines Orient / Orient Star when you reach the Ananta and Grand Seiko variants.


Well, Seiko 5's are also good value. Maybe they aren't as premium as Orients but they have an insane low price. I mean, how many automatics can you get for 60 EUR or so? Thats why they are so popular among mechanical beginners. You just can't go wrong with them for the first time and when you do, most ppl love them. I love my Mako but there is just something about the Seiko 5 that i really like.


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## jasontking

Orient makes a line of "3 Star" watches similar in price to the low end Seilo 5's.

Sent from Samsung Galaxy S2


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## RejZoR

They do but i generally don't like them all that much. The 3 star logo looks kinda crappy and the designs just aren't as nice as Seiko 5's. But that depends on a personal taste...


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## ClockFreak

The last Orient I`ve had was over 4 decades ago , in those days Great looking watch , but it was n`t a good timekeeper ( since then maybe things have improved ) , had a Seiko 5 that was very accurate / reliable ,it`been around for a long time and has proven itself , unfortunately it got stolen , it gained less than 2 min. a mnth., in comparison my Certina DS 2 with certronic ( tuning fork ) gained `bout 3 min. mnth., I would say that from japan , only Citizen and Casio stack up well compared to Seiko , why not have a look at the Seiko kinetics or the Citizen Eco drives , now there`s Value for money |>


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## jasontking

My Orient watches have been more accurate than my Seiko watches. On average Orients I have owned have been within 5 to 7 second per day. My Seikos are closer to 15. No less love for my Seikos but Orient wins accuracy in my experience.

Sent from Samsung Galaxy S2


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## raze

I dont think you have to chose either or. You surely can own both in your collection. Just about every other person here has an orient and a seiko in their collection.


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## Orex

Recently I started to like more the designs of Orient over Seiko's. Orient designs seems better proportioned and more curvaceous - the Seiko is more angular. Also, Seiko tend to mess up their crowns on both mid and high end range - I believe this is perhaps due to a personal preference of some design manager  On the other side Orient crowns are always spot on with excellent grip and in good harmony with the rest of the design.

Orients are not perfect though - I find that their date window is rather small:

Here are the new Orient Star Standard Date:









and here is the dirrect Seiko Sarb competitor (a bit old model)









The Orient I really like though is this one:


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## Marrin

raze said:


> I dont think you have to chose either or. You surely can own both in your collection. Just about every other person here has an orient and a seiko in their collection.


+1

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using Tapatalk 2


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## trekDS

rybak said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to compare SKX007 or any Seiko diver watch to Mako, or similar Orients in regard of price, because they are simply non-comparable in this aspect.
> 
> SKX-series (007, 009, and so on) are real divers acc. to ISO 6425, and Mako-series are just water resistant watches. Yes, they are 200m WR, they are of diver's look, but no "diver's".
> 
> "Real divers" means special requirements regarding not only WR, but among others also characteristics of lume and its location, bracelet and even spring bars. Moreover, also some ISO-defined tests must be done.


So a Rolex Submariner isn't a real dive watch?

An ISO standard does not a dive watch make and a word printed on the dial isn't enough to earn my trust. The Mako and the new Mako (Ray) are as good a dive watch as the SKX007 and the Ray has a better bezel for diving than the SKX007 IMO.


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## rybak

trekDS said:


> So a Rolex Submariner isn't a real dive watch?
> 
> An ISO standard does not a dive watch make and a word printed on the dial isn't enough to earn my trust. The Mako and the new Mako (Ray) are as good a dive watch as the SKX007 and the Ray has a better bezel for diving than the SKX007 IMO.


And what is Your point, Sir, I'm sorry, haven't got it....?

Have You read the posts I'm answered with mine one?

The clou is, why an SKX would be more expensive than a Mako.
And the reason is the ISO.

What is Your opinion on one, or another bezel, or what is a Rolex Sub is an another topic and not of importance in this regard.

That's all... ;-)


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## trekDS

rybak said:


> And what is Your point, Sir, I'm sorry, haven't got it....?
> 
> Have You read the posts I'm answered with mine one?
> 
> The clou is, why an SKX would be more expensive than a Mako.
> And the reason is the ISO.
> 
> What is Your opinion on one, or another bezel, or what is a Rolex Sub is an another topic and not of importance in this regard.
> 
> That's all... ;-)


The point is many companies don't bother with ISO certification because it means nothing. Nadda. Not a thing. Its certainly not a cost factor in the watch.

Seiko is claiming the watches meet the specification is all, there is no active process to check the compliance of each watch.


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## jasontking

Although I will not pull myself into this specific ISO diver debate, I can say from real world experience that ISO as an organization has a primary purpose to make money. I value a product with an ISO certification about as much as a JD Powers award. It is nearly meaningless. These awrds and certifications may have been meaningfull in the beginning but their value has been diluted over time.

Sent from Samsung Galaxy S2


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## rybak

trekDS said:


> The point is many companies don't bother with ISO certification because it means nothing. Nadda. Not a thing. Its certainly not a cost factor in the watch.
> 
> Seiko is claiming the watches meet the specification is all, there is no active process to check the compliance of each watch.


If You have a knowledge, that Seiko puts illegally restricted markings on their products, You shouldn't just write it in an internet forum, but inform responsible authorities.

OK:

- much better lume (ever compared for example a Monster to a Mako, or better, a Big Mako in this regard...?), 
- 1/4 higher pressure requirements, 
- more complicated bracelet design with diving-suit elongation (ever compared a 007 or a Monster bracelet to a Mako-bracelet?), 
- even those stupid non-standard, two times as thick as the common ones, spring bars...
- and so on...

...those things are all not the cost factors.

I forgot - we talk about two parts of the same corporation, manufacturing similar products mostly in same countries, where the only distinguishing characteristics are a compatibility - or not - with some international standards, resulting in.... see above.

Somehow I'm quite sure, that this is at least one of reasons for the product positioning and price differencies - independently of other companies, which maybe gives a sh.t for the ISO certification.

Forgot again - of course ISO is an organisation, of which at least one of purposes is, to make money.
Similar to API, DIN, ASTM and so on (it's my own professional experience, just got last week a new standard-in-work for commenting ;-) ).

And Seiko or Orient are charity brotherhoods... They never use the boundary conditions of the real world for their own bussiness...

No, neeeever.... ;-)


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## hiro1963

trekDS said:


> The point is many companies don't bother with ISO certification because it means nothing. Nadda. Not a thing. Its certainly not a cost factor in the watch.
> 
> Seiko is claiming the watches meet the specification is all, there is no active process to check the compliance of each watch.


Actually each Seiko ISO compliant diver watch is tested at the factory to 125% of the stated water resistance (i.e. 250 m). This is a relatively expensive component of the production process.

BTW, Ray in action. It's a great diver's watch.

The pic was just taken a couple of days ago.

Photo credited to my friend ....... Thanks.


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## trekDS

hiro1963 said:


> Actually each Seiko ISO compliant diver watch is tested at the factory to 125% of the stated water resistance (i.e. 250 m). This is a relatively expensive component of the production process.
> 
> BTW, Ray in action. It's a great diver's watch. The pic was just taken a couple of days ago. Photo credited to my friend ....... Thanks.


I am with you Hiro, I expect Seiko to do the right thing. They make a first rate product. The ISO certfication process means far less than Seiko's commitment to building a great watch. The same is true of Orient (and of course Rolex that I mentioned earlier).

I was just keen that the ISO process not be seen as the mark of a reliable dive watch. Its not. But Seiko printed on the dial certainly is ;-)

Nice pic of the Ray. B.e.d.l.a.m was a member here for some time and I am sure he would agree that both Seiko and Orient divers can be relied on to work as expected in the water. The Ray is hard to beat though at the asking price :-!


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## Marrin

According to ISO in order for a watch to be diver's 200m EVERY watch needs to be tested! I kind of doubt that, but that is what they say

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## GTR83

trekDS said:


> Nice pic of the Ray. B.e.d.l.a.m was a member here for some time and I am sure he would agree that both Seiko and Orient divers can be relied on to work as expected in the water. The Ray is hard to beat though at the asking price :-!


I saw b.e.d.l.a.m's photo journal of his Saturation Diver being taken on a dive. It was great stuff. Now that I own the Ray (for less than $100) I definitely agree that it is very hard to beat with its price, even more so when it's a used one.


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## rybak

trekDS said:


> I was just keen that the ISO process not be seen as the mark of a reliable dive watch. Its not.


No one claims the opposite here...


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## rushman

i have both! Get both! hehe


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## Mr.Jones82

Orex said:


> Recently I started to like more the designs of Orient over Seiko's. Orient designs seems better proportioned and more curvaceous - the Seiko is more angular. Also, Seiko tend to mess up their crowns on both mid and high end range - I believe this is perhaps due to a personal preference of some design manager ? On the other side Orient crowns are always spot on with excellent grip and in good harmony with the rest of the design.
> 
> Orients are not perfect though - I find that their date window is rather small:
> 
> Here are the new Orient Star Standard Date:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here is the dirrect Seiko Sarb competitor (a bit old model)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Orient I really like though is this one:


I would have to disagree about the crown, but I suppose it depends on the model maybe. I really dislike the crown on my Mako and my other Orient. They are difficult to grip and equally difficult to push back in. My Samurai has an excellent crown that is easy to grip, pops out smoothly, and can be pushed back in with a comfortable amount of force. My Sumo is in the mail, but I have experience with one, and again I thought the crown was excellent. I like my Mako, but that actually is my biggest gripe about it (along with accuracy). Again, that is only my experience. Anecdotes do not amount to much, so maybe my Mako is just off.


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## Eric_M

My first mechanical watch was an Orient Blue Mako. Great value for money and one of the most attractive dials of any watch I've had, but there were a couple things that always bugged me about it. The bracelet felt cheap (hollow end links, collar pins, cheap clasp), the bezel was very hard to turn, and the mineral glass seemed to smudge all the time. The SKX has a crappy bracelet as well, but luckily, Strapcode makes very nice bracelets for both of these watches now, so get them on the rubber strap and upgrade. The SKX hardlex crystal looks better to me than the orient. I ended up buying an SKX to replace the Mako as my pool/beach/yardwork beater, but I might be tempted in the future to get another Mako with an upgraded bracelet. (my Mako is the old model, so the aftermarket bracelet won't fit)


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## Vamospues

IMHO Seiko and Orient are pretty much indistinguishable in quality and value for money at the lower end, e.g. sub 250 dollars ...

Orient has a wider range of designs, some of which are crazy ... kudos to them for pushing the envelope, though ...

Seiko seems more classic, a "heritage" brand, but a little boring perhaps?

My biggest issue with Orient? Most of their watches are slightly too big ... e.g. Bambinos at 40 mm are 1 or 2 mm too big for my 6.7 inch wrist ...

My biggest issue with Seiko? The super-affordable, wonderfully-diverse 5 series is ... slightly too small: 36 or 37 mm.

Perfectionists are never satisfied, are they? :-(

Here are my current two favourites from each house: SNKE79J1 and Blue Mako v.1

















Good luck diving into this obsessive little hobby! Let us know your choice ... and don't drown


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## Mr.Jones82

Vamospues said:


> IMHO Seiko and Orient are pretty much indistinguishable in quality and value for money at the lower end, e.g. sub 250 dollars ...
> 
> Orient has a wider range of designs, some of which are crazy ... kudos to them for pushing the envelope, though ...
> 
> Seiko seems more classic, a "heritage" brand, but a little boring perhaps?
> 
> My biggest issue with Orient? Most of their watches are slightly too big ... e.g. Bambinos at 40 mm are 1 or 2 mm too big for my 6.7 inch wrist ...
> 
> My biggest issue with Seiko? The super-affordable, wonderfully-diverse 5 series is ... slightly too small: 36 or 37 mm.
> 
> Perfectionists are never satisfied, are they? :-(
> 
> Here are my current two favourites from each house: SNKE79J1 and Blue Mako v.1
> 
> View attachment 13444267
> 
> 
> View attachment 13444269
> 
> 
> Good luck diving into this obsessive little hobby! Let us know your choice ... and don't drown


Seiko 5's are just incredible bang for your buck. I especially enjoy the latest models...but I cannot stand the 5 on the dial(or "Sports" if it is that model). I do not think I can ever buy one again. I wish I could get beyond it, bit my eyes go straight to it everytime. I feel like a teenager with a pimple; I just keep staring at the one flaw. But if it does not bother you (which it probably should not bother me as much as it does, especially at the price point), pretty good buy for the dollar.


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## sernsin

Vamospues said:


> IMHO Seiko and Orient are pretty much indistinguishable in quality and value for money at the lower end, e.g. sub 250 dollars ...
> 
> Orient has a wider range of designs, some of which are crazy ... kudos to them for pushing the envelope, though ...
> 
> Seiko seems more classic, a "heritage" brand, but a little boring perhaps?
> 
> My biggest issue with Orient? Most of their watches are slightly too big ... e.g. Bambinos at 40 mm are 1 or 2 mm too big for my 6.7 inch wrist ...
> 
> My biggest issue with Seiko? The super-affordable, wonderfully-diverse 5 series is ... slightly too small: 36 or 37 mm.
> 
> Perfectionists are never satisfied, are they? :-(
> 
> Here are my current two favourites from each house: SNKE79J1 and Blue Mako v.1
> 
> View attachment 13444267
> 
> 
> View attachment 13444269
> 
> 
> Good luck diving into this obsessive little hobby! Let us know your choice ... and don't drown


Agreed I sold my orient day date black and lucky enough got 2 old OS from japan site 36 and 34mm















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Alwaysontime12

I absoulety love my Skx's. Certain aspects of the orient look cheaper... the lume on the hour makers, the bezel..well the bezel is about equal. Anyways both great watches...buy one of each. Skx007 and a blue mako or ray. You will wear and enjoy both equally. The orient does always seem to have a better movement. Both more robust while I service mine and in accuracy. Also have never received an orient with any quality control issues. They may exist but I've never seen them.


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## wagoss122

I own several models of both brands (Mako USA II, Ray Raven II, Bambino, SKX007, SNZG “Seiko 5”). I think you get the best bang for the buck with the Orients. I do have issues with my Mako USA crown being a PITA but the design of the white dial version is very appealing along with hacking/wind/sapphire. With that being said after a few months of use there is a particular charm about the Seiko SKX that keeps drawing me to it (my wife also prefers it and she doesn’t care for watches) and when all is said and done it is probably the one i’ll hold onto the longest. Also the Bambino is a hell of a watch for $110-120


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## jwolfe

sernsin said:


> Agreed I sold my orient day date black and lucky enough got 2 old OS from japan site 36 and 34mm
> View attachment 13462813
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the reference on this watch ? I want one.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Vamospues

sernsin said:


> Agreed I sold my orient day date black and lucky enough got 2 old OS from japan site 36 and 34mm
> View attachment 13462813
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Beautiful! These come up pretty regularly on Yahoo Japan Auctions, it seems, and they look to be great value if you can find them in good condition.


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## sernsin

WZ0091ER, depends your luck, i am manage to get complete set 95% mint conditions.


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