# Sticky  Help with info on watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner WT



## nauz

Does anyone have specs for a modern transformer for this unit? The only place repairing these are charging ridiculous amounts for their transformer and service.

Thanks
Chris


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## BenchGuy

You are probably relegated to one of the handful of folks who still repair these...and service isn't cheap. But they are great units and still worth repairing. Alternatively, the new $3900 Matador is an excellent unit. Regards, BG


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## nauz

BenchGuy said:


> You are probably relegated to one of the handful of folks who still repair these...and service isn't cheap. But they are great units and still worth repairing. Alternatively, the new $3900 Matador is an excellent unit. Regards, BG


Yes the service some people offer isn't cheap at all. The machine is almost completely restore except for the transformer that is sending out too much voltage on the secondary coil side that's shorting out my fuse. If someone had the proper specs for it or maybe the measured voltage on that side I might be able to replace with a modern transformer and build a mount for it. I'm not getting accurate readings at all. Also that matador is vary nice looking but this watchmaster wt is a project I'm enjoying restoring with modern components.

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## nauz

Getting the transformer rewired is not hard. Just need to push out the wedge and then use a razor blade to cut the varnish that is holding all the core plates together. Once I done that I gave the wire wound to my local motor rewind shop. Est time for him to complete because he is doing it on the side is two weeks and 100$. Was cheapest price I could find and he also re did my two transducers for 50$. One reason for re doing the transducers was because one of them arched and caused the wire to split in half within the winding. I will be posting more photos soon of the complete work. In over all it was cheaper just to do it all my self with local work then send it off to someone. 40$ for all new electronic capacitor, resistors and new wire.

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## nauz

So today I got back my rewind transformer, after searching for someone to redo it. Tell me what you all think. I'll be posting more photos of the complete work done to the electronics.

Thanks
Nauz

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## Be Jewelled

I am not familiar with the machine, but much admire your tenacity, skill and dedication in getting it back up and running.
And of course think of the money you have saved.
Now with the money you have saved you will be able to spend it on a special treat, one cannot have enough tools?

Cheers


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## nauz

Be Jewelled said:


> I am not familiar with the machine, but much admire your tenacity, skill and dedication in getting it back up and running.
> And of course think of the money you have saved.
> Now with the money you have saved you will be able to spend it on a special treat, one cannot have enough tools?
> 
> Cheers


Thanks Be Jewelled, haha yes you can never have enough tools.

Chris

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## nauz

What the electronics looked like before








After a bit of re work, notice the new transformer has not been placed in yet. So this is just a sneak peak before j start posting hundreds of photos. 

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## Snakepottery

Are you going to replace all the old and probably leaky capacitors? I would if I was you!

It's always good to restore old good quality equipment, these days we just tend to chuck stuff away. 

Nice one!
Andy 


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Are you going to replace all the old and probably leaky capacitors? I would if I was you!
> 
> It's always good to restore old good quality equipment, these days we just tend to chuck stuff away.
> 
> Nice one!
> Andy
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hey Andy,

Yes the caps and resistors have all been replaced. I just need to order a few other parts and it will be complete.

Chris

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## nauz

Would anyone happen to know anything about what I believe is the linear variable transducer on the back of the tube sockets that people adjust for faster or slower cleaners? I know it's suppose to adjust the frequency for the transducers that the cups sit in and vibrate the core of the cups and is suppose to be set at 32khz.















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## Snakepottery

Without stating the obvious, it just looks like a variable inductor. Can't quite see from the circuit diagram, but I would imagine it sits in the feedback loop between the grid and the anode. Is it adjustable from the outside of the unit then? I mean user adjustable rather than trimmed so the oscillator runs at 32khz?


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Without stating the obvious, it just looks like a variable inductor. Can't quite see from the circuit diagram, but I would imagine it sits in the feedback loop between the grid and the anode. Is it adjustable from the outside of the unit then? I mean user adjustable rather than trimmed so the oscillator runs at 32khz?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


No not adjustable from the outside, the unit has to remove cover and the heater in order to get to it. I'm still looking into it.

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## Snakepottery

Do you have a picture of the full circuit diagram?
Must just be to trim the oscillator to 32kHz. No Quartz PLL oscillators in those days!!


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Do you have a picture of the full circuit diagram?
> Must just be to trim the oscillator to 32kHz. No Quartz PLL oscillators in those days!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Sure do thanks for the help snakepottery









If the image isn't good let me know I can post another.

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## Snakepottery

Thanks, that's interesting. Need to have a think about it, curious as there us no rectification. Clearly the two valves are working in parallel with the anodes feeding L1 and L 2 which I guess must be the ultrasonic transducers. 
The inductor you originally asked about is to trim the frequency and works in conjunction with the capacitor in parallel. 
You probably have worked it out anyway, or I'm completely wrong in how it works!
What are your thoughts in its operation?


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Thanks, that's interesting. Need to have a think about it, curious as there us no rectification. Clearly the two valves are working in parallel with the anodes feeding L1 and L 2 which I guess must be the ultrasonic transducers.
> The inductor you originally asked about is to trim the frequency and works in conjunction with the capacitor in parallel.
> You probably have worked it out anyway, or I'm completely wrong in how it works!
> What are your thoughts in its operation?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Yes you are correct the anodes feeding L1 and L2 and your correct is the transducer. Also you are right about the inductor trimming the frequency. The only thing not replaced in this unit with modern components is, inductor, rotary switch (cleaned) and motor on the circuit. I do not have the heater circuit attached at all. It runs for awhile on a low frequency but at a higher frequency the tubes start to flicker and blows the fuse. Is there a modern inductor I could replace for this its got some noticeable age?

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## Snakepottery

You won't be able to find a replacement variable inductor (you would need to know the inductance range and current rating) also I doubt there is anything wrong with it as the oscillator runs as you say.
Now, you say the switch changes from high to low frequency. I can't see that myself, as the frequency is fixed. The switch selects either L1 or L2 via the relay, K1. I guess one is high power and the other is low?
So at low power it works, but as you select high, the current flow increases too high and causes the valves to cook. (I presume you have replaced the valves).

It focus your attention on the transducers. If you have an ammeter, you could measure the current flow in both switch positions. Maybe the high power section of the transducer has a fault. Maybe a shorted winding?
Not sure where you go from there however. Maybe get it rewound? If the assembly is able to be dismantled that is.
Let me know how you get on.
Andy


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> You won't be able to find a replacement variable inductor (you would need to know the inductance range and current rating) also I doubt there is anything wrong with it as the oscillator runs as you say.
> Now, you say the switch changes from high to low frequency. I can't see that myself, as the frequency is fixed. The switch selects either L1 or L2 via the relay, K1. I guess one is high power and the other is low?
> So at low power it works, but as you select high, the current flow increases too high and causes the valves to cook. (I presume you have replaced the valves).
> 
> It focus your attention on the transducers. If you have an ammeter, you could measure the current flow in both switch positions. Maybe the high power section of the transducer has a fault. Maybe a shorted winding?
> Not sure where you go from there however. Maybe get it rewound? If the assembly is able to be dismantled that is.
> Let me know how you get on.
> Andy
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


No there isn't a high or low going through a relay, I believe the variable inductor is used to change the frequency value. The tubes have been replaced, what I was saying is at a lower frequency I don't see any flickering and fuse blown that soon as a higher frequency would. The transducers have brand new wounds and same amount of turns. The assembly was in bad condition so I had it re painted and lacquered just like the transducers. The core of the variable inductor has a small chip on the end of it and it does look it's age. To be honest I'm a bit lost at the moment. The only things not changed out would be the variable inductor, the rotary switch (for selecting between L1 & L2), interlock switch (what is it when the cups are in the transducers and the timer. I'll eventually get it, just gotta give it time.

Thanks
Chris

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## nauz

So just an update,

Replaced the tube sockets and the machine is running 100% better. I tried to clean them up before with a bit of a fine grit on the inside of the female socket where the pins go into. There was loads of carbon build up and the contacts where so loose. So I ended up just replacing them all together with new ones. Will be posting some finished work after I complete the heater attachment. I've got new resistors so I need to figure out a way to mount them to the chassis, to replace the cooked ones.









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## Snakepottery

That's good news! So no more blown fuses then?

The resistors look like wire wounds, I suppose you could clamp them depending on the type you have.


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> That's good news! So no more blown fuses then?
> 
> The resistors look like wire wounds, I suppose you could clamp them depending on the type you have.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


No blown fuses so far (knock on wood). I'm looking into some chassis mounted resistors at 180 ohm 25watt wire wound but the housing is aluminum and as far as I know the heater aspect of that circuit is going to need that heat coming off them resistors. So maybe I'll get another type or something.

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## Samantha

Very nice work! I wish mine was like that! 
Samantha


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## nauz

Samantha said:


> Very nice work! I wish mine was like that!
> Samantha


Hey Samantha

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## nauz

Some photos of the work I have done.

Before





















After















Got a video of it running the base in a bit.

Chris

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## nauz

WARNING to viewers: video playback might be a bit loud due to the ultrasonic frequency being emitted from the cup.






Chris


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## Samantha

Very nice Chris! You did good work on that.
Samantha


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## nauz

Samantha said:


> Very nice Chris! You did good work on that.
> Samantha


Thanks Samantha, let me know if you need help with your machine I'm always open to refurbishing equipment and helping people out.

Chris

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## Samantha

Thank you Chris. I will PM you.
Samantha


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## nauz

Installed the new timer switch, had to do a bit of work on it to make it compatible. Will clean up the wiring later when I get more time to work on her. She purring real nice 

Note: it comes with the hold feature and is a 15 min timer.









Chris

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## nauz

Sent the casing to get a fresh coat of paint. Chose to match the color scheme all the way. Idk if it decrease the vintage value lol but tbh it's a full restoration and I'm not looking to sell but use it. Will post those photos once I get it back.

Chris


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## Samantha

Is yours the blue case or gray case?
Samantha


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## nauz

Samantha said:


> Is yours the blue case or gray case?
> Samantha


Grey and it was rusty/peeling off 

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## Snakepottery

So, in the end was the fix to blown fuses and flashing valve anodes corroded contacts on the valve base?
Nicely sorted, I would never have suspected that! But I guess the grid could have floated +ve due to poor contacts, that would certainly cause the anode current to increase hugely thus causing blown fuses and flashing anodes.
Anyway, nice work. It's so important to keep old kit going.
I've done a lot with the valves, I love them! Most of my work has been with valve audio, they just sound sooo good! Sadly my ears are not so good now, so all the valve kit and other hi if has gone to be replaced by streamed audio from my iPad! I suspect it sounds rubbish, but better than nothing!!


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> So, in the end was the fix to blown fuses and flashing valve anodes corroded contacts on the valve base?
> Nicely sorted, I would never have suspected that! But I guess the grid could have floated +ve due to poor contacts, that would certainly cause the anode current to increase hugely thus causing blown fuses and flashing anodes.
> Anyway, nice work. It's so important to keep old kit going.
> I've done a lot with the valves, I love them! Most of my work has been with valve audio, they just sound sooo good! Sadly my ears are not so good now, so all the valve kit and other hi if has gone to be replaced by streamed audio from my iPad! I suspect it sounds rubbish, but better than nothing!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hey thanks snakepottery, yes it did end up being the contacts on socket and male pins on the tubes. By ordering new sockets and 6cd6ga tung-sol vacuum tubes cleaned up real well. Been running it continuous for over 30mins on my hold/timer switch I had put in and replaced the hold timer. I didn't think there would have been issues with it either that's probably why it took me forever to figure out. Was reading an article on someone redoing radios and suggested carbon build up be cleaned from the sockets. Thank you for your help by the way, I really enjoyed this project trying to figure it all out and stuff.

Chris

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## Snakepottery

I've enjoyed reading the progress and the logic you've applied in sorting it!

So, what's your next valve based project?? How about a valve timegrapher? A good mix of electronics and mechanics. They come up on eBay every so often.


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> I've enjoyed reading the progress and the logic you've applied in sorting it!
> 
> So, what's your next valve based project?? How about a valve timegrapher? A good mix of electronics and mechanics. They come up on eBay every so often.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Oh yeah one of the watchmaster timing machines would be fun. There is a bit more publication on people restoring those so that might be my next project.

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## nauz

Haha so I'm back and got the frame back.























If anyone is interested it was cerakoted @cerakote on Instagram or Facebook www.cerakote.com you can find a local gunsmithing shop that will do it for you. Basically it's ceramic powder with a bonding agent then sprayed on and baked in a oven. Man .... looks so good....

Chris

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## nauz

Today I'm working on the heater part of the machine. once its completed ill post some photos and if its good i believe im just about finished with refurbishing it.



Chris


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## nauz

Posting the photos of the top part completion.

























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## nauz

Running

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## nauz

Now I just have to figure out a decent glue for the label and a caution sticker and we be ?.

Chris

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## nauz




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## Snakepottery

That looks excellent! Nice to see the finished product!

Snake


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> That looks excellent! Nice to see the finished product!
> 
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hey snake,

Thanks, I'll be doing another project in the coming months or beginning of next year. I'm thinking a watchmaster timing machine but we will see, I'd need to get it complete with everything. Also I tallied everything up and I spent somewhere around 600-750$ witch for a decent cleaned one goes for but you won't find another one like this! It was worth it.

Chris

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## nauz

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## nauz

So one thing I have noticed with the unit. Since buying new tubes I did have to run the machine for around 50hours or so to let the new tunes get some burn in time. Also when starting the machine up before use after a cool down I do like to pull out one of the cup and set it aside and run the machine in was or rinse to warm up for about 20 mins before any cleaning because starting off with them being (cold) it won't have peak performance. Another thing I'd need to get ahold of if possible is to have one of those screen caps for the spin dry. Besides those things the machine will last another 50+ years like when they originally produced them. ?








Cleaned up around the table now it's pleasant to view. 

Ps I will be looking into better resistors for the spin dryer. The ones I have currently are garbage.

Chris

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## nauz

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## nauz

Just a video I had to add of the ultrasonic running at peak.

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## Samantha

Very nice! You did a terrific job! |> |>
Samantha


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## nauz

Samantha said:


> Very nice! You did a terrific job! |> |>
> Samantha


2nd overhaul coming soon!!!!! Mark II.

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## nauz

So here is the Mark II I'll be cleaning up and replacing some of the electronics. I'll even do a new paint job because it's starting to rust and that will just continue. A new coat of paint will prevent any future rust once I clean it up. New wiring will also be done. Transformer seems to be lacquered pretty good compared to the mark I wt's so ill inspect it to make sure it's got the right voltages on it.

Chris

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## nauz

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## Snakepottery

Hi Nauz,

Ive spotted one of these on ebay.co.uk. Going for £250 with no takers. Im very tempted but it outside my price range really and Mrs Snake will be non too pleased! It has been reduced from £350 to £250, maybe it will come down again. If so, maybe i will ride the wrath of mrs Snake and get it! It will make a nice electronic project. Not done any electronics in years so will be fun!
We shall see....

Snake


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Hi Nauz,
> 
> Ive spotted one of these on ebay.co.uk. Going for £250 with no takers. Im very tempted but it outside my price range really and Mrs Snake will be non too pleased! It has been reduced from £350 to £250, maybe it will come down again. If so, maybe i will ride the wrath of mrs Snake and get it! It will make a nice electronic project. Not done any electronics in years so will be fun!
> We shall see....
> 
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hey snake,

Man if it goes down further then the 250 euro that's more of a steal. I have seen these in about 99% with everything still on the machine sell for around 1K$ for the blue/black mark II WT model. Make sure you read the description and see if there is anything not running. The most expensive thing I believe in this unit to replace is the transformer. So if the transformer looks okay then that's also a plus. Another thing to note is if it has all the baskets and cups. Those alone are pricey.

Chris

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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Hi Nauz,
> 
> Ive spotted one of these on ebay.co.uk. Going for £250 with no takers. Im very tempted but it outside my price range really and Mrs Snake will be non too pleased! It has been reduced from £350 to £250, maybe it will come down again. If so, maybe i will ride the wrath of mrs Snake and get it! It will make a nice electronic project. Not done any electronics in years so will be fun!
> We shall see....
> 
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Snake is it the red/gray model wt or blue/black mark II wt? Don't get the A-1 but the A-1T should be a better model as well.

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## Snakepottery

Its the red/grey A1.....


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## Snakepottery

Heres the item number, looks like there may be some issues and its 110v which wiuld be a pain.

351641087725

Snake


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Heres the item number, looks like there may be some issues and its 110v which wiuld be a pain.
> 
> 351641087725
> 
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Snake,

You euros use 220v right? I'm not sure what would be needed to convert the machine to working order but I know for a fact a lot of people don't like to refurbish the A1's due to the fact they over heat. This is probably due to the electronics and me personally not viewing this specific model. I wouldn't be able to comment much on it if you where to try and refurbish this model. I'm sure it can be done with some more money dumped into the machine. I'd hold off for now till a A-1T or WT becomes available. That's what you really want is one of the two models noted above. I always see them come up for sale.

Chris

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## nauz

Actually the transformer would need to be redone to accept the Euro voltage and then wound according to what the machine uses in its circuit. The person who rewound my transformer charged me 160$. But the transformer will last a lot longer then the one made in 1960's. 


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Heres the item number, looks like there may be some issues and its 110v which wiuld be a pain.
> 
> 351641087725
> 
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hey snake,

If your really interested I believe I still have to tested sheet displaying the voltage on the output voltages of my transformer. This way when you get a new transformer rewound to take the input voltage of euro and step it down. It will be easier to talk to someone who re does vintage or transformer rewinding in your area.










You can see they re used the core of the old transformer so it will fit back into the machine. The insulated wrapping and new wire wound along with it dipped in lacquer. So nice looking. Let me add by saying that if you do that have them lacquer the coils of the transducers. Or if you have the stuff your self you can dip it in lacquer and bake it in a oven.

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## Snakepottery

Thanks Nauz,

Im going to sit and watch what the auction does. Sadly i don't have the funds to indulge myself with "Nice to haves!"
So lets see!




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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Thanks Nauz,
> 
> Im going to sit and watch what the auction does. Sadly i don't have the funds to indulge myself with "Nice to haves!"
> So lets see!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


No problem snake always my pleasure, if you have more questions later on you know where to find me. It took me almost a year to slowly fund the refurbish part of the wt model.

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## nauz

So today I'm started disassembling the units to get them prepped for new wiring and eventually new other stuff like paint and electronics.














This is 1 of two Mark II's I'll be refurbishing.







hoarding!!

Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation.
-Nikola Tesla


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## Snakepottery

Another interesting project Nauz! I look forward to watching its progress.
Snake


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Another interesting project Nauz! I look forward to watching its progress.
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'll take some time completing, gotta slowly fund money into the project. Hopefully I'll have it all complete before I need to relocated in October/November.

Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation.
-Nikola Tesla


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## Snakepottery

So, for the one you finished recently, does it work well and clean movements effectively?
I have a 1950's 3 bath plus heater watch cleaner. It works pretty well but I did fancy the ultrasonic machine you have.

There was one on the bay and that went for £150. Didn't really have the funds at that time.
Anyway, will keep my eye open for one.

Snake


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> So, for the one you finished recently, does it work well and clean movements effectively?
> I have a 1950's 3 bath plus heater watch cleaner. It works pretty well but I did fancy the ultrasonic machine you have.
> 
> There was one on the bay and that went for £150. Didn't really have the funds at that time.
> Anyway, will keep my eye open for one.
> 
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





























I cleaned up this Hamilton 918 movement with my watchmaster wt. I remove the set jewels and put them in separate baskets. The plates in another holder then the wheels and everything else in the thimble baskets. I'm really satisfied and I'll post a better photo of the movement later when I get a chance.









Don't laugh at my plastic holder my wooden one was being used for another watch. I love my machine and can't wait to get the wt markII completed.

Also it's hard to get good photos on my iPhone at the desk. Some reason the fluorescent lighting creates red base lines at different angles.


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## Snakepottery

Certainly looks clean. I guess it should be a lot more effective than my old cleaner.

Snake


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## nauz

Snakepottery said:


> Certainly looks clean. I guess it should be a lot more effective than my old cleaner.
> 
> Snake
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I have no idea what machine your using. I love my machine and I'm gonna keep one wt and one wt mark II then sell the other mark II.


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## Watchugeek

I really enjoyed this thread nauz. I use the watchmaster myself and am constantly scouring online sources and meet-ups for spares and parts. I think I have 3 complete units sitting on the shelf waiting to be called into service but my main WT just will not quit. I have used several brands and styles of cleaners but IMHO these are the best of all.

I regularly clean and spray the dryer cup bushing with silicone but am always worried that the bushing will wear out and I will have a hard time replacing it. Any ideas on that topic?


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## nauz

Watchugeek said:


> I really enjoyed this thread nauz. I use the watchmaster myself and am constantly scouring online sources and meet-ups for spares and parts. I think I have 3 complete units sitting on the shelf waiting to be called into service but my main WT just will not quit. I have used several brands and styles of cleaners but IMHO these are the best of all.
> 
> I regularly clean and spray the dryer cup bushing with silicone but am always worried that the bushing will wear out and I will have a hard time replacing it. Any ideas on that topic?


Hey watchugeek,

Glad you like my thread. Currently I'm using the silicone grease for that assembly. The only thing I'm worried about is the plastic piece the fan fits around. I have some ideas in mind but I've heard of one other person just making a new plastic cylinder piece witch only protects the fan. The rod that is inserted in the fan assembly over time I'm sure the inner diameter gets worn because of friction (metal/metal) that's why we use jewels in watches. What drives the cup is the rubber O ring on the motor that also connects the fan under the cup. First thing I would look into is maybe converting to ball bearing. That would take some time for me to see what size I'd need to get for the design then what size for the fan. Essentially both having their own ball bearings. My cup has a wobble because the wear on the inside the cups bar sits into is worn. If my design won't work with ball bearing I'd need to see what other options I have.


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## Watchugeek

Ball bearings are a great idea. I know that Butterworth Clocks makes very small clock bushings with ball bearings for some models of grandfather clocks which one might be able to modify to that purpose. Butterworth Clocks, Inc. | Clock Repair Password is butterworth/butterworth (some silly attempt to foil web bots lol)

I hope your thread gets stickied as it is invaluable.


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## nauz

Watchugeek said:


> Ball bearings are a great idea. I know that Butterworth Clocks makes very small clock bushings with ball bearings for some models of grandfather clocks which one might be able to modify to that purpose. Butterworth Clocks, Inc. | Clock Repair Password is butterworth/butterworth (some silly attempt to foil web bots lol)
> 
> I hope your thread gets stickied as it is invaluable.


Ah man that's good stuff, let me give this further thought. If I can get my pc working this week I could possibly design something after I get my dimensions of the heater assembly with applying the small clock bushings supplied by butterworth.

It would be nice to have it as a sticky. When someone quotes me in this thread it usually gives me a pop up on my iPhone app. I'll try to help anyone on this machine.

Ps The mark II has the heater cup as well but the assembly is different.


----------



## nauz

Watchugeek said:


> Ball bearings are a great idea. I know that Butterworth Clocks makes very small clock bushings with ball bearings for some models of grandfather clocks which one might be able to modify to that purpose. Butterworth Clocks, Inc. | Clock Repair Password is butterworth/butterworth (some silly attempt to foil web bots lol)
> 
> I hope your thread gets stickied as it is invaluable.


I'm having issues with my pc at the moment so it might be delayed a bit.


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## nauz

While my pc isn't working atm to help watchugeek my basket turned to hell and was coming all undone. This was noticed when I got the machine but I tried to make it last as long as I could. But photos tell a lot more info.










Then I got my self some stainless steel mesh around same specs as the old mesh bottom.










I placed it over the top and used a permanent marker to get my circle. Then cut it out with some snips. Get some sharp ones because my snips was dull.










Eventually I'll get a spot welder to weld the ends like the old setup. But for now this works perfect.

Chris


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## Watchugeek

Very nice repair Chris. 

What do you think tore up the bottom of the basket? In all of my days I have never seen anything like that.


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## nauz

Watchugeek said:


> Very nice repair Chris.
> 
> What do you think tore up the bottom of the basket? In all of my days I have never seen anything like that.


When I originally bought it, the mesh wasn't fastened well on the ends. What you see in the picture is after I started removing them. I didn't take a photo of it before I started unfortunately. The welds that where still there where perfect. My guess is the machine or person who was spot welding didn't hit the ends in good locations. Over time they get warped out of location then back in normal position and eventually so loose I could pull out a few strands with no issues. But what I have installed is the stainless steel mesh and I'll get a little dental spot welder or something to complete that project. Also I'm still working on my pc to work on an idea for you with the heater seat.

Chris


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## nauz

Watchugeek said:


> Very nice repair Chris.
> 
> What do you think tore up the bottom of the basket? In all of my days I have never seen anything like that.


Hey watchugeek how close to original do you want the assembly? Because I've got another idea in mind but it involves removing the motor that drives that fan and cup. Replacing the assembly that holds the fan/cup then putting in a more efficient motor right where that assembly is. I'm kinda getting at an idea similar to the mark II design.










Basically with mounting the fan/cup on top of the motor you'll be eliminating a spring,the need of a rubber o ring and the assembly to hold that fan/cup. Making it all one piece. You could easily modify the bottom of the cup to specific length then notch it out.










For the fan part you can turn a piece of stainless to the dimensions. Drill a hole for the stopper bar of the cup. Then center drill your hole for that cup and motor bar. On the end where it sits on the motor you use a bandsaw your end to give you the prongs that will eventually be tighten with a little clamp.


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## Watchugeek

Still a great thread nauz.

Sent you a PM...


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## Watchugeek

I just wanted to give a shout out to nauz and say thank you very much for rebuilding one of my Watchmaster ultrasonic cleaners.

He did superb and timely work and is a valuable asset to this forum.

Thank you Chris for the nice job and also thank you for your military service.


----------



## nauz

Watchugeek said:


> I just wanted to give a shout out to nauz and say thank you very much for rebuilding one of my Watchmaster ultrasonic cleaners.
> 
> He did superb and timely work and is a valuable asset to this forum.
> 
> Thank you Chris for the nice job and also thank you for your military service.


My pleasure.


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## Watchugeek

Thank you Samantha for sticking this thread. These units have been workhorses in my shop for over 30 years but have never been serviced. The one that Chris rebuilt for has twice the power of my other units. I guess I just got used to seeing them operate in a less vigorous state until I got the one back from Chris. 

The only problem is that I will now be searching the cups more often for dial screws and roller jewels lolol...


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## nauz

Watchugeek said:


> Thank you Samantha for sticking this thread. These units have been workhorses in my shop for over 30 years but have never been serviced. The one that Chris rebuilt for has twice the power of my other units. I guess I just got used to seeing them operate in a less vigorous state until I got the one back from Chris.
> 
> The only problem is that I will now be searching the cups more often for dial screws and roller jewels lolol...


lol


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## Samantha

Watchugeek,
I'm like you, I've had mine since 1978 and it's never been serviced. That will change very soon though.  They are workhorses, and I wouldn't trade it for any other machine! 
Samantha


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## nauz

Before and after underside shots of watchugeeks watchmaster wt.


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## Samantha

Wow! That looks wonderful! So nice and clean and organized well. |>|>|>
Samantha


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## nauz

Uploaded L&R Tempo 400 Operation Manual for anyone who needs it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lfkgae153vhdlwo/L&R Tempo 400.pdf?dl=0


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## hr8799

Greetings! Like the others, I'd like to thank you for posting so much useful and detailed information about these machines. In part because of the high praise these machines have received in this forum, I took the plunge and purchased a Mark II Ultrasonic with the intention of giving it a bit of TLC.

The current status of my Mark II is that it runs: both left and right ultrasonic cups vibrate (but barely) and the spin-dry cup spins (but is bent and wobbles so badly that high speed is not an option). These are the two main issues I'd like to address first. So, I'm seeking advice on the following:

1. What is the likely cause of the weak ultrasonic agitation? Do I need to clean or replace the tubes? The videos posted of similar machines show the liquid surface rippling beautifully -- mine shows only hints of vibration at the bottom of the can and I can feel only slight vibration with my finger. Same for both left and right sides. I've read that you need to let things warm up, so I ran the machine for about 10m (long enough?) without any change.

2. Any suggestions for straightening the spin-dry apparatus. The motor shaft is either bent or out of alignment AND the
cup itself is bent at the bottom slotted-post where it inserts into the motor-shaft/axel. Would love to read about someone else's positive/negative experience with bending this back to true.

I've attached a photo for fun ... looks kind of gnarly at the moment, but I'm confident there is a gem under that grime.

Thank you in advance for your help!


----------



## nauz

hr8799 said:


> Greetings! Like the others, I'd like to thank you for posting so much useful and detailed information about these machines. In part because of the high praise these machines have received in this forum, I took the plunge and purchased a Mark II Ultrasonic with the intention of giving it a bit of TLC.
> 
> The current status of my Mark II is that it runs: both left and right ultrasonic cups vibrate (but barely) and the spin-dry cup spins (but is bent and wobbles so badly that high speed is not an option). These are the two main issues I'd like to address first. So, I'm seeking advice on the following:
> 
> 1. What is the likely cause of the weak ultrasonic agitation? Do I need to clean or replace the tubes? The videos posted of similar machines show the liquid surface rippling beautifully -- mine shows only hints of vibration at the bottom of the can and I can feel only slight vibration with my finger. Same for both left and right sides. I've read that you need to let things warm up, so I ran the machine for about 10m (long enough?) without any change.
> 
> 2. Any suggestions for straightening the spin-dry apparatus. The motor shaft is either bent or out of alignment AND the
> cup itself is bent at the bottom slotted-post where it inserts into the motor-shaft/axel. Would love to read about someone else's positive/negative experience with bending this back to true.
> 
> I've attached a photo for fun ... looks kind of gnarly at the moment, but I'm confident there is a gem under that grime.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help!
> 
> View attachment 11517442


Hey hr8799,

I'll try and answer a bit for you.

Question 1- if the ultrasonic is low try adjusting the bras screw inside the machine located right above the tubes. Once you get good ultrasonic I like to put a drop of electrical tape glue or heat shrink a tube that will fit over the base and tight enough on the screw to keep it from moving. Some are provided with a washer and nut but some get lost over time. This is to keep it from moving off your setting. This pot changes the Hrz or cycles for the ultrasonic. Sometimes you can get poor performance of your tubes are bad or other electronics in that circuit.

Question 2- You have options for fixing the not true and misaligned spin dryer. Try and spin the cup with the bottom rod out and try to bend it back into alignment. Now with the motor, might be something like bearings are worn. The motors used a aluminum holder and had wells with material inside that held lubrication. If it's misaligned it's possible those are bad but those fans are the same as 120v bathroom exhaust fans. Those can just be replaced if you found the right diameter and length. If the one you purchase has a little too much you could cut off the extra to fit the dimensions. I'll have to look again at the dryer/heater top of the WT Mark II when I get the chance.

Nauz


----------



## hr8799

Thank you for the helpful suggestions! I found some time to play with it this evening. Turning the brass screw clockwise/counter enabled me to find a sweet spot for maximum vibration. If I held the light just right, I could see a very slight wave pattern on the surface and a few bubbles generated at the bottom. Hopefully it will improve after things are cleaned and parts updated. 

I also pulled the tubes to look at the pins -- they looked remarkably clean, like brand-new clean. Using my voltmeter, only two pins showed continuity. I think this result is expected based what I've found online. Without access to a tube tester, I'm not sure what else I can do to test them further. 

Per your suggestion, I also made progress in bending the drying cup back and decreasing the wobble. I'll try again next week, but am confident it will eventually be useable at max speed. 

Work will be getting in the way for the next 5 days, but after that I should have time to invest in the project. Thank you again!


----------



## nauz

NP hr8799

I posted the WT manual and includes the schematic for the WT. it's circuit for the base is the same for all of A1-T, WT and WT Mark II with the exception of Mark II having different heater/dryer. I have not taped into re-doing that part just yet.


----------



## hr8799

Following Nauz' lead, I found a local cerakote finishing service (cerakotetucson). I'm on a budget, so I went with the closest color they were working with that day -- a sort of aqua / teal. The fellow at cerakotetucson was very helpful and I couldn't be happier with result. Obviously it is not a match to the original light blue, but this is for personal use and not a museum 

Photo attached of just the shell. I'll be replacing the caps and resistors over the next week or so.


----------



## nauz

hr8799 said:


> Following Nauz' lead, I found a local cerakote finishing service (cerakotetucson). I'm on a budget, so I went with the closest color they were working with that day -- a sort of aqua / teal. The fellow at cerakotetucson was very helpful and I couldn't be happier with result. Obviously it is not a match to the original light blue, but this is for personal use and not a museum
> 
> Photo attached of just the shell. I'll be replacing the caps and resistors over the next week or so.
> View attachment 11640194


Looks like their "Robin's egg blue" which is what most people use for a Tiffany custom. Looks real nice and the website says light teal blue. Did they hook you up on price? I've gotta do a few mark II's and haven't decided what color to chose yet. Can't wait to see how your project comes out.

Chris


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## hr8799

OK, I made my first mistake  There are 4 bar magnets, two on either side of the coils that surround the cleaning cup shafts. I figured polarity matters and set them aside in the original orientation (I was cleaning up a bunch of goop that had solidified around there). Then, like a clumsy fool, I knocked them over. However, as I was picking them up, I noticed they are marked with a dab of yellow paint on the edge of one end. Presumably this is so the proper orientation can be maintained during assembly? If I had seen those markings earlier I would be in much better shape (several were so covered in dried crude it was pretty hard to see).

So, do you know which way the yellow-marked ends go? There are obviously a limited number of possibilities ... but trial and error may be annoying. Ha ... projects ... learn something new every time!


----------



## nauz

hr8799 said:


> OK, I made my first mistake  There are 4 bar magnets, two on either side of the coils that surround the cleaning cup shafts. I figured polarity matters and set them aside in the original orientation (I was cleaning up a bunch of goop that had solidified around there). Then, like a clumsy fool, I knocked them over. However, as I was picking them up, I noticed they are marked with a dab of yellow paint on the edge of one end. Presumably this is so the proper orientation can be maintained during assembly? If I had seen those markings earlier I would be in much better shape (several were so covered in dried crude it was pretty hard to see).
> 
> So, do you know which way the yellow-marked ends go? There are obviously a limited number of possibilities ... but trial and error may be annoying. Ha ... projects ... learn something new every time!


I think my magnets had an x on the ends facing up.


----------



## nauz

hr8799 said:


> OK, I made my first mistake  There are 4 bar magnets, two on either side of the coils that....


I always forget to tell people to take lots of photos.


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## hr8799

OK, after several weeks and a lot of help from nauz (thank you!), the watchmaster is up and running with new finish, resistors, capacitors and tubes. 


I have uploaded a video to youtube of the machine in action. I still have some work to do on the spinning dryer canister (will likely need to replace the motor it attaches to). Other than that, and a few finishing touches here and there, I think it is ready for a some watch parts. I will hopefully try it out this weekend. 

OK, apparently my post-count is too low to post a direct link to the video. So, if you want to see the short (~ 1min) video of the machine running, do a google search for 
"youtube Watchmaster Mark II resurrection" (mute audio, enter full screen and up your screen brightness).


----------



## nauz

hr8799 said:


> OK, after several weeks and a lot of help from nauz (thank you!), the watchmaster is up and running with new finish, resistors, capacitors and tubes.
> 
> I have uploaded a video to youtube of the machine in action. I still have some work to do on the spinning dryer canister (will likely need to replace the motor it attaches to). Other than that, and a few finishing touches here and there, I think it is ready for a some watch parts. I will hopefully try it out this weekend.
> 
> OK, apparently my post-count is too low to post a direct link to the video. So, if you want to see the short (~ 1min) video of the machine running, do a google search for
> "youtube Watchmaster Mark II resurrection" (mute audio, enter full screen and up your screen brightness).


How you gonna get the white speed indicator markings on the heater/dryer? I have some ideas if you don't have any.


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## hr8799

Excellent question. I'm not sure yet. I've looked at some transparent sticky film that could (using photoshop) be printed with the markings in white. There are a few products online that look possible, but most have mixed reviews. I'm also skeptical about their durability ... but I could put an extra layer of something like clear packing tape over it for added protection. In the end, I felt like these kinds of options could ended up looking like crap after a month (or less!) of use, so I haven't tried it. But I guess I could just print a hundred and replace it as needed!

Look forward to seeing the solution you come up with. 

How about the numbering on the stainless plate in the front? Will you repaint with black or leave all stainless?


----------



## nauz

hr8799 said:


> Excellent question. I'm not sure yet. I've looked at some transparent sticky film that could (using photoshop) be printed with the markings in white. There are a few products online that look possible, but most have mixed reviews. I'm also skeptical about their durability ... but I could put an extra layer of something like clear packing tape over it for added protection. In the end, I felt like these kinds of options could ended up looking like crap after a month (or less!) of use, so I haven't tried it. But I guess I could just print a hundred and replace it as needed!
> 
> Look forward to seeing the solution you come up with.
> 
> How about the numbering on the stainless plate in the front? Will you repaint with black or leave all stainless?


For the stainless I'd just use an enamel paint if you can. But for the heater/dryer I'd make a stencil and then spray paint with krylon or something for ceramic. Might not last forever but still good enough to look nice and you can always remove it if you don't like it or mess up.


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## watchsavant

This thread has been very helpful. Thanks to Chris and others for their posts. Earlier in the thread the magnet polarity for the ultrasonic receptacles was discussed -- the two magnets on either side of the wash receptacle and two on the rinse. For the rinse receptacle, I have magnets with yellow on one side. I am trying to see if I accidentally reversed these magnets. Where I last left it, the rinse receptacle's left magnet was yellow-side down (facing bottom of the unit) and the right magnet was yellow side up. Is this correct? Yellow is South based on my test with a compass. Should the magnets be arranged north aka down and south aka up or south Up for both? I think the question strikes at the basis of the mechanical ultrasonics work on these when power is applied but I am not close enough to it to fully understand it yet.


----------



## watchsavant

I wanted to update the thread with what I have learned. Thanks to hr8799 for his private message help. The consensus is that the magnets should be at the same polarity for each receptacle (wash or rinse.) For mine, I measured the yellow polarity with a compass and its south. I then measured the receptacle I did not touch with a compass, wash. Both of these magnets seem to show they are yellow-side down (north facing up.) I will go ahead and put yellow down for both magnets on the rinse side. If I hit issues with that I will update the thread. I also wanted to share one tip-- never remove a wash or rinse cup while ultrasonic is turned-on on these machines. Doing-so has led me down this repeated fuse blown pattern once ultrasonic runs for about a minute. I will be replacing tubes and have cleaned-up and tested the unit. If the tubes appear to have solved the issue I will update the thread. It will be possible other things I did helped fix it but I would assume they are minor and would assume the tubes were it. Note in cleaning,
under the cup receptacles is a floating bar with a contact switch and the red anodes (?) for the receptacles. Solution can fall on these parts and make them sticky. They should be cleaned at least once a year from the underside of the unit. The gunk can make this switch stick and fail to operate.
Not sure if that happened to me when I removed the cup while ultrasonic running but my floating bar was dirty and somewhat sticky. This floating bar switch is designed to cut power to the unit if a cup is removed while ultrasonic is turned on.


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## hr8799

Hello watchsavant:

sounds like you are on the right track! I bet you'll be up and running in no time.

What helped me to understand how the parts work together was to remind myself of how a standard / cheap speaker works (paper cone, copper coil, permanent magnet, rod, membrane, etc.). Our machine has two speakers a rinse and wash speaker! And has all of the equivalent bits of a speaker.

For example, take your common woofer, its permanent magnet is a symmetric hollow cylinder in which sits the copper coil surrounding a fixed ferrous metal pole. Exposed to the permanent magnet's magnetic field, the pole becomes magnetized and assumes the same magnetic orientation as the perm. mag. In our case, this pole is attached to the stainless cups. The now-localized magnetic field of the pole provides something for the alternating magnetic field produced by the copper coil to push/pull against. Without it, the speaker's [paper cone + coil] or watchmaster's [stainless cup+pole] would not vibrate. In the watch cleaner, the equivalent permanent magnet is provided by the two pairs of small bar-magnets that sit on either side of our (held fixed) copper coils. Now you can see why it is important for these two bars to be oriented the same way (same polarity). If they were opposite, they would not work together to induce enough magnetism in the pole (as the speaker's magnet does) and would actually prevent vibrations.

So it is important that the two mags have a common orientation. If reversed (like I did by mistake!), the system acts as if you were holding the cups with your hand, preventing them from vibrating - the circuit will draw too much current and BOOM, blown fuse. All is relative as to what is vibrating and what is fixed. So, if you were to run the machine with the cups out of the slot, and the pole not in the coil, a similar situation happens leading to too much current and a blown fuse.

Thinking of the machine as a pair of basic speakers really cleared things up for me. OK, there is a bit more to it (to make the high frequencies) but clear enough for me 

A few things people suggested that helped (thanks everybody!)
- GE and RCA tubes work, Sylvania tubes will not work
- buy a kill-a-watt device for $25 bucks and measure the amps.

This helped me avoid blowing more fuses (kill the power if current starts climbing up and getting close to 4 or 5 amps, save your fuse!). Good US action is around 2.8 to 3 amps for me. I'm paranoid (after blowing 6 fuses!) and watch the amps every time I use the machine ... I also have a fire extinguisher nearby. The cleaning fluids are flammable and the tubes get hot and, well, best to be safe.


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## watchsavant

Superb helpful and intuitive write-up, thanks


----------



## watchsavant

watchsavant said:


> Superb helpful and intuitive write-up, thanks


I wanted to update the thread as promised. The new replacement tubes today arrived. The unit is now working properly again and not blowing fuses. Here I will summarize key lessons learned and add a few more notes:

1) do not remove an ultrasonic cup while ultrasonic is running.
2) if by accident you do remove a cup or start the ultrasonic without cups installed, there is a rocker bar-style safety mechanism I described in a few posts earlier that is designed to cut off power and protect the unit as I understand it. These rocker bars and the cutoff switch contact collect spilled fluid and can get sticky and gunked-up. If it does, it can prevent the safety mechanism from working. This mechanism can be easily reached from the bottom of the unit and can be cleaned. These units can be dangerous to handle, don't touch the capacitors for example, they hold a dangerous charge even if the unit is unplugged. If you are not experienced with electronics then I recommend you get help for keeping the unit cleaned up safely.
3) if the unit fails to protect itself, the tubes can fail. One mode of failure has them pulling too much power and quickly blowing the fuse after a brief period of ultrasonic operation. If your fuse is blowing, consider replacing the tubes and safely cleaning the unit as the next course of action. Tubes are readily available on the famous auction site and inexpensive. 
4) new/additional note-- when I inspected the unit, I inspected the copper coils. There is paper-like tubing that is used to suspend the copper coil that sits between the magnets. This paper tubing is very important because the copper coil hitting the case can cause a problem. On mine, this tube/paper was improperly installed for the rinse receptacle. The paper wraps around the pillar support for the receptacle and each of its two arms should "hug" the coil above and below it, keeping it suspended in the receptacle so it doesn't drop. If you inspect anything around the coils, look for this item and also assure you reinstall it properly.
5) finally, if inspecting the coils and removing the magnets, reinstall them so they share the same polarity as discussed in the posts just above this one. Also consider use of a kill-a-watt as described above by another poster-- a great suggestion-- to monitor current consumption when troubleshooting and his other tips and answers.
Thanks again for this thread, it was crucial to resolving my problem.


----------



## nauz

watchsavant said:


> I wanted to update the thread as promised. The new replacement tubes today arrived. The unit is now working properly again and not blowing fuses. Here I will summarize key lessons learned and add a few more notes:
> 
> 1) do not remove an ultrasonic cup while ultrasonic is running.
> 2) if by accident you do remove a cup or start the ultrasonic without cups installed, there is a rocker bar-style safety mechanism I described in a few posts earlier that is designed to cut off power and protect the unit as I understand it. These rocker bars and the cutoff switch contact collect spilled fluid and can get sticky and gunked-up. If it does, it can prevent the safety mechanism from working. This mechanism can be easily reached from the bottom of the unit and can be cleaned. These units can be dangerous to handle, don't touch the capacitors for example, they hold a dangerous charge even if the unit is unplugged. If you are not experienced with electronics then I recommend you get help for keeping the unit cleaned up safely.
> 3) if the unit fails to protect itself, the tubes can fail. One mode of failure has them pulling too much power and quickly blowing the fuse after a brief period of ultrasonic operation. If your fuse is blowing, consider replacing the tubes and safely cleaning the unit as the next course of action. Tubes are readily available on the famous auction site and inexpensive.
> 4) new/additional note-- when I inspected the unit, I inspected the copper coils. There is paper-like tubing that is used to suspend the copper coil that sits between the magnets. This paper tubing is very important because the copper coil hitting the case can cause a problem. On mine, this tube/paper was improperly installed for the rinse receptacle. The paper wraps around the pillar support for the receptacle and each of its two arms should "hug" the coil above and below it, keeping it suspended in the receptacle so it doesn't drop. If you inspect anything around the coils, look for this item and also assure you reinstall it properly.
> 5) finally, if inspecting the coils and removing the magnets, reinstall them so they share the same polarity as discussed in the posts just above this one. Also consider use of a kill-a-watt as described above by another poster-- a great suggestion-- to monitor current consumption when troubleshooting and his other tips and answers.
> Thanks again for this thread, it was crucial to resolving my problem.


That's great advice, over the few years I've been messing with these I notice a large majority of issues arise from improper use of them. Mainly the fact people would allow Watch cleaning liquid to drop into the machine and not cleaning it.

Now with the cups being inserted or out when on shouldn't matter. The floating bar that triggers (open, close)the switch to complete the circuit that sends voltage to the back of the tubes would be turned off (open) when the cups are out. When they are in the float gets pushed into the switch causing it to close. If your bar gets stuck then yes you'll get issues. The bottom of the cups is suppose to be a core and when fixated between the magnetic field it causes the core to vibrate ultrasonically. Sometimes the cups or the core of the cup are also in vary poor shape which will cause you to have bad ultrasonic. If you have any other question feel free to ask.


----------



## watchsavant

Thanks for your thoughts. It's almost impossible to avoid drips in these units when you use them regularly. Removing the parts container through almost any means stands a risk of a dripping and I for example go to great lengths to avoid drips including a draped rag on the grill and a process such as one Samantha once posted on using the extra cup to drain liquid. No matter what you do, there can be drips. I have seen machines with cleaner dripped all over the outside-- I agree that's misuse but in regular usage, the safety switch may collect cleaner and fail when needed. I would never remove a cup while ultrasonic is enabled for the cup, the safety switch has to function and if it doesn't, then one can only hope the problem was isolated to the tubes. Since my issue and in research, I have found at least one other person, a well known tool supplier and watchmaker himself, who advises himself and others to keep this safety switch clean.


----------



## nauz

watchsavant said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. It's almost impossible to avoid drips in these units when you use them regularly. Removing the parts container through almost any means stands a risk of a dripping and I for example go to great lengths to avoid drips including a draped rag on the grill and a process such as one Samantha once posted on using the extra cup to drain liquid. No matter what you do, there can be drips. I have seen machines with cleaner dripped all over the outside-- I agree that's misuse but in regular usage, the safety switch may collect cleaner and fail when needed. I would never remove a cup while ultrasonic is enabled for the cup, the safety switch has to function and if it doesn't, then one can only hope the problem was isolated to the tubes. Since my issue and in research, I have found at least one other person, a well known tool supplier and watchmaker himself, who advises himself and others to keep this safety switch clean.


Sorry about the late reply, I agree that the switch should be clean as well. Have you tried to shake the parts container then use a paper towel to hold under it while moving it should limit anything from dropping into the machine? This is what I do because then I've gotta open it and clean it out.

Chris


----------



## stevenpb

I know this is an old thread but do you know the voltages of the transformer? I just had mine die and am looking at it and there appears to be no voltage coming out of one side.


nauz said:


> View attachment 3447218
> View attachment 3447226
> 
> 
> Getting the transformer rewired is not hard. Just need to push out the wedge and then use a razor blade to cut the varnish that is holding all the core plates together. Once I done that I gave the wire wound to my local motor rewind shop. Est time for him to complete because he is doing it on the side is two weeks and 100$. Was cheapest price I could find and he also re did my two transducers for 50$. One reason for re doing the transducers was because one of them arched and caused the wire to split in half within the winding. I will be posting more photos soon of the complete work. In over all it was cheaper just to do it all my self with local work then send it off to someone. 40$ for all new electronic capacitor, resistors and new wire.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nauz

stevenpb said:


> I know this is an old thread but do you know the voltages of the transformer? I just had mine die and am looking at it and there appears to be no voltage coming out of one side.
> 
> 
> nauz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 34472183447226
> 
> Getting the transformer rewired is not hard. Just need to push out the wedge and then use a razor blade to cut the varnish that is holding all the core plates together. Once I done that I gave the wire wound to my local motor rewind shop. Est time for him to complete because he is doing it on the side is two weeks and 100$. Was cheapest price I could find and he also re did my two transducers for 50$. One reason for re doing the transducers was because one of them arched and caused the wire to split in half within the winding. I will be posting more photos soon of the complete work. In over all it was cheaper just to do it all my self with local work then send it off to someone. 40$ for all new electronic capacitor, resistors and new wire.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I will try to reply to this soon, my tapatalk app is having issues with Watchuseek forum and I've got a piece of paper with all that voltage on it.


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## dutymountain

I'll hop in this thread with a WT question. Mine is working beautifully, except the pulley which drives the dryer cup is mounted a touch high on the motor spindle. That causes the spring belt to occasionally slip into the gap between the the pulley and the motor. No problem, just adjust the pulley, right?

Not so much. There is apparently some corrosion between the steel motor shaft and the aluminum pulley that is effectively welding the pulley to the shaft. It won't budge, and there is only 3 mm of clearance between the pulley and the motor. Nothing around it is sturdy enough to support a pry bar--I have already bent a motor support trying. That was easy enough to fix, but a lesson not to try that any more.

A machinist suggested drilling and tapping a couple of holes in the top surface of the pulley and forcing it off against the motor shaft. I am not really keen on that idea. Another suggestion was to use heat to break it loose, but it's way too close to the motor. I made a puller with some scrap steel-like metal, but the material failed when I put it to the test. 

So, #1 does anyone have a suggestion for breaking it loose without breaking anything else? And #2, I thought to use an O-ring to drive the pulley, thinking it might hold in the slot better than the slinky belt. Has anyone tried that, and know what size O-ring to use? Or would the heater resistors just destroy the O-ring?

Thanks for any suggestions or observations.


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## watchabit

dutymountain said:


> I'll hop in this thread with a WT question. Mine is working beautifully, except the pulley which drives the dryer cup is mounted a touch high on the motor spindle. That causes the spring belt to occasionally slip into the gap between the the pulley and the motor. No problem, just adjust the pulley, right?
> 
> Not so much. There is apparently some corrosion between the steel motor shaft and the aluminum pulley that is effectively welding the pulley to the shaft. It won't budge, and there is only 3 mm of clearance between the pulley and the motor. Nothing around it is sturdy enough to support a pry bar--I have already bent a motor support trying. That was easy enough to fix, but a lesson not to try that any more.
> 
> A machinist suggested drilling and tapping a couple of holes in the top surface of the pulley and forcing it off against the motor shaft. I am not really keen on that idea. Another suggestion was to use heat to break it loose, but it's way too close to the motor. I made a puller with some scrap steel-like metal, but the material failed when I put it to the test.
> 
> So, #1 does anyone have a suggestion for breaking it loose without breaking anything else? And #2, I thought to use an O-ring to drive the pulley, thinking it might hold in the slot better than the slinky belt. Has anyone tried that, and know what size O-ring to use? Or would the heater resistors just destroy the O-ring?
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions or observations.


If you haven't solved this problem yet I have a suggestion with heat. 
Use a micro butane torch, surgically directed directly on the collar that's stuck. It wont take much heat if it's put right on the collar itself. I use this method all the time to heat screws near paint. Doesn't have to be very hot, as the tiniest bit of expansion will make it let go.
These torches are available at wal mart, lowes etc... if you don't have one.


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## watchabit

Also as for penetrants, PB Blaster and Kroil are two of my favs. Maybe soak it the day before you use heat, that's a pretty sure bet.


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## fskywalker

Nice thread! How much should I expect to pay for an used Bulova WT unit?


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## ExpiredWatchdog

fskywalker said:


> Nice thread! How much should I expect to pay for an used Bulova WT unit?


Depends on the model. I got a nicely working WT on the bay for $500 and bought the parts needed to complete for another $80, just a month ago. A-1 models are going for less, but they tend to overheat. I lurked for several months before buying and saw that they come and go often. My seller does estates and mine came from that of a watchmaker.

I had to buy an extra cup to support three rinse procedure and the third cup had much more evidence of use. Its seller indicated that it must have sat on the side of the unit with spare solution for a long time, and while that may be so, I believe that it was just used a lot more than those that came with the unit. Its perfectly functional and I'll get a lifetime's use at the rate I service watches; I just thought it was interesting that the cups that came with the machine were practically new and the extra showed significant surface erosion.

I have a couple questions for anyone that might know, first what I've read above indicates that the safety switch operates on both cups, i.e. if you remove either cup, then the switch safeties the unit? On mine, only the rinse cup causes the switch to actuate; you can run it with only the rinse cup in place.

Second, the A-1 unit has a voltage doubler instead of a transformer (observed from a burnt out schematic I saw on another posting). It works by charging a pair of capacitors through rectifiers such that one charges on the positive AC phase and the other on the negative phase. Further, they discharge through another pair of rectifiers to the load such that they are in series, hence double the voltage.

My question is, are the rectifiers selenium? They would look like a stack of rectangular/square/maybe round plates separated by air spaces for cooling, maybe ten or 20 plates per rectifier? There should be four of them and they are likely all the same size.

I'm asking because selenium rectifiers are not very efficient. I had a 500 amp selenium bridge rectifier in an old-school TIG welder and it measured about four ohms forward and about 1k ohm reversed using a battery powered VOM. That in itself would be a significant producer of heat (my welder bridge was about the size of a boot box and had a half horsepower fan blowing straight into it). I'm wondering that if replaced by silicon rectifiers, would the unit still overheat?


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## Richard1079

I have two WT that have been great units. I keep them clean and watch chemical spills. I have one coil that shorted on the bottom and the wire is broken with about 3//4 inch missing. There are two little balls at end of each break from arking to bottom plate. Also the solid center core section is missing in between where the wire is broken. Is there a fix for the coil or a replacement. Also the dryer spring pulley on the motor just under o ring needs to be replaced. It has worn down to almost nothing so I have to use a larger o ring to get the motor closer to dryer can. Ive just been using th other unit. I have replaced the metal spring, the 4 plastic fan bushings and the heater pads with the proper OHMITe part which is a pad like the on it. The part Number is M379430 F40J200.
Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## ExpiredWatchdog

Regarding the driver coil, further up the post, the OP (I believe it was) got both his transformer and driver coils rewound. It’s a pretty simple job for a pro. Transformer cost $160 and I can’t remember the cost of the coils. The pulley is a simple o-ring, I would think you can measure your working one and get a replacement. There are many o-ring suppliers online. 

Thanks for the clue on the Ohmite part numbers. Mine are still good but the ceramic is starting to crack and should be replaced. Where’d you get the fan bushings? I notice my bushings are worn oval and also that the joint between the shaft and the cup is loose so a lot of the runout comes from that joint. I could stake it tighter or maybe silver solder it.


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## Richard1079

I found the spring belt and 4 plastic dryer bushings on ebay. The sellers ebay name is 1kevinp... He sells new spring belts, the dryer bushings, new heater pads, nylon washers etc and things to update the unit. He is very helpful responding to questions. Hope this helps. I AM STILL SERACHING FOR A COIL FOR ONE OF MY WT UNITS. So far the only place willing to rewind mine or make a new one wants 300 for the first one to make a mold for the core, then 80 each but needs a min. order of 10 coils..... Anyone need some of the coils?


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## ccwatchmaker

For those who are using or considering using an O-ring to drive the dryer, Viton O-rings stand up remarkably well to the heat of the dryer. They are far superior to the black (Buna) O-rings. Viton is a dark reddish brown material.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## ExpiredWatchdog

Thanks for the clues above. @Richard1079, I have a set of bushings on order, didn't think I'd need the spring at $30 or that I can source an equivalent for much less (even at Grainger). @ccwatchmaker, are you using an o-ring in place of the spring? I just noticed that my fan is hit-and-miss, sometimes it turns and sometimes the spring slips. I lubricated the bushings, cut about a quarter inch from the spring and also cleaned it and both pulleys, all to no avail. My next though is to source an o-ring.


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## ccwatchmaker

Yes, I use a Viton O-ring to drive the fan from the lower groove of the motor pulley. The upper groove of the motor pulley drives the drying cup with an O-ring securely fitted in the groove. This smaller O-ring provides the friction to drive the cup directly from the motor pulley by pressing against the base of the cup.

The Viton O-ring has been very long-lived. I can't recall when I put it in, but it's been many years. I am sure it is quieter and there is less wear on the pulleys than using a steel spring.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## ExpiredWatchdog

ccwatchmaker said:


> This smaller O-ring provides the friction to drive the cup directly from the motor pulley by pressing against the base of the cup.


I have wondered about this rubber ring that drives the cup; mine is original and in good shape but if it ever gives out, where would I find a replacement? it has a triangular cross-section so it's definitely a custom-made moulding, not an off the shelf part. Are you saying you have replaced it with an o-ring? I'm afraid to take mine off for fear of damaging it.


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## ccwatchmaker

If the original triangular cross-section cup driving ring is performing satisfactorily, then there is no reason to change it. However, I'd think that using a round cross-section ring would provide a reliable drive. If I were replacing the ring, I would try to find a Viton ring, the same material as the fan drive belt, because Viton will survive under the heat better than the more common Buna-N rings.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## ExpiredWatchdog

Thanks for the info. Do you lubricate the fan bushings? I ask because I put some 30 weight mineral oil on the bearings Saturday night and it seems that they are tighter than they were before I lubricated them. Particularly the inside of the fan bushing against the steel shaft, even without being inside the fan. When it does spin, the fan spins on the outside of the bushing which can't help. 

I have a replacement set on the way so I expect they will fix the problem, but if there is some incompatibility with mineral oil, then I'll avoid it. In any case, I'll order an additional set as I'd hate the supply to dry up then have to figure out where to get individual parts. 

Unless advised otherwise, I'll either run it dry or use silicone oil which should be pretty inert. I have a copy of the manual but it doesn't say anything about maintenance (other than contact Bulova).

Edit: I've got a shoebox of o-rings of many different sizes, many of them are red. I'll go through and see if I can't find something for the fan belt. The cup drive will stay on 'till it dies.


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## ExpiredWatchdog

Greetings fellow Watchmaster Owners, as you know by now, I've sourced a Watchmaster WT and have done a few things to it, mostly adding missing parts. One thing that bothered me was that the dryer cup seemed to wobble a bit. Other posters above had complained about the same problem and had wondered about bearing replacement.

Richard1079 posted information above about a seller with parts for the dryer (1kevinp on ebay), notably a bushing replacement set for the fan and cup. I ordered a set, thinking that they may help the wobble and because they probably all needed replacement eventually.

I went to use it recently and found that the fan wouldn't turn; the spring was slipping on the fan pulley. It was time to do something about dryer (oh, and pictures or it didn't happen).

First, I took on the problem with the fan wobble. I notice that the cup shaft seemed to move on the cup's hub quite a bit, contributing to the wobble. My first thought was the staking for the shaft had worked loose so I could re-stake it and tighten it up. Then I noticed that it wasn't the shaft to hub fit up, but that the hub was actually composed of two concentric pieces, the inner staked to the shaft and the outer staked to the cup. Both of these stakings were tight, but the two were also staked to each other and this joint was loose:










You can see the stakings between the two parts as a row of drift punch marks near the outside edge of the hub. There's a circular crack that runs through the stakings (you can see it well at the one o'clock position) and it showed movement between the parts.

I tried to tighten up the joint with a drift punch to no avail. I was able to tighten it up as follows:

Place a deep socket around the shaft:










...and flip it over onto the vise:










...put another socket onto the hub (the diameter is just larger than the joint):










...and whack it with a hammer a few times. Voila, no more movement.
On to the Fan/Hub Assembly. The fan just pulls off. My Hub was held to the base by three of the sorriest screws I've seen in a while:










The Hub had threads in the holes, but the threads were somewhat damaged and these screws (4-40) cleared the ID of the threads. One of the threaded holes was missing most of the threads due to an oblong hole due to wear, cutting, filing, or such, as shown below, the previous owner wasn't a mechanical genius. Here's a shot of the bottom of the Hub:










Sorry it's a little out of focus, these are iPhone shots and there are limits&#8230;

This shows the lower cup bushing retainer and bushing, as well as the wonky holes (the upper one is the oblong hole).

First the retainer had to come out. A scratch awl was enough, but I had to work each tooth a little at a time, working around until it came out:










The bushing comes out easily. The bushing on the other end also comes out fairly easily, but it does have a retaining ridge (shown below) so it might take a little more work.

The saddest but most amusing forensic is:










You can see that the spring had jumped off the pulley and rode against the OD of the hub, for HOW LONG! Jeez, this guy must have run this thing for years of service without noticing the fan wasn't turning?!! The final couple pictures below show the heating resistors and one is badly burnt. I wonder why? Well, another thing to fix.

So now that everything is apart:










Time for the sheep dip. I used paint thinner as I didn't have any Stoddard solvent and paint thinner is a refined (and pricier) version of Stoddard solvent. I ran it in my Chinese cheapy ultrasonic at 70c for an hour:










...stopping at 30 minutes to wire brush the hard stuff off. Too bad I got rid of two gallons of carburetor cleaner a few years ago when I moved (I'll never clean another carburetor in my life, I said to myself). Anyway, everything came out nice and clean (those are the replacement bushings):










The o-ring is an attempt to follow James Sadilek's suggestion about using one in place of the spring, which I'll get to later (and yes James, the Buna N is temporary, I'll get Viton when I get a chance to order a few).

Next, I tackled the problem of the hub fasteners. The two holes that still had threads appeared to take a 6-32 screw but not cleanly and I didn't try to force anything, but the oblong hole almost completely cleared a 6-32. I tried an 8-32 tap and it cut nicely into each hole including the oblong hole:










I started from the opposite side as the threads were cleaner there, including the oblong hole, giving me a much straighter pilot. I found some nice 8-32 screws with integral lockwashers:










Next, I decided that the working surfaces of both the hub and cup shaft needed some cleanup and finishing. I used a fine Arkansas stone and carefully drew each surface, making sure to turn the shaft as I drew it over the surface to avoid flatspotting it:










This picture doesn't show the whole process, in working I had my left fingers over the surface, pressing it square to the stone, but here it's taking the picture. I continued with this until all previous wear marks were gone.

After the stone, I cut up some 600 grit Tri-M-ite into strips:










...applying machine oil to the working surface (keeps the grit clear of dross and holds the paper off the work to get a finer finish). I mounted each surface in the vise and worked it:










The paper is pulled back and forth several times, then the work is rotated, say 90 degrees. Repeat this many times to get this:










The cup shaft got all the same treatment with the same result.

Next, everything is cleaned with fresh paint thinner and a brush followed by pure IPA. Before I go into reassembly, I'll note that during trial assembly, I noticed that the fan bushing was tight on the hub shaft (the original driver behind refreshing the surfaces) but loose in the fan, so it stayed fixed to the shaft and the fan turned around it. I suppose this would work, but it's not how we would design it (smaller diameter, less bearing surface velocity). I opened the bushing by placing a cold chisel in the bushing gap:










...and applying a little heat with a lighter. I waved the lighter below it just until it was hot to touch to my lips. I let it rest as shown until cool and now I had to squeeze it closed to fit into the fan. It turned on the shaft easily.

The cup bushings have a little quirk to notice; the upper one has a ridge on it to hook into a groove in the hub:










This retains it when pulling the cup off. The lower bushing is straight on the OD and just slides into the hub:










Installing the retainer is a bit of a trick as it wants to jump in on one side and make the other side really hard to press. The trick is to get it centered on the hole with all prongs just resting on the edge with none of them below the edge. It took me several tries:










...then push the retainer in with a socket with hand force:










It really doesn't take much if you get it lined up concentric. If it's crooked, then it takes a lot of force. It just needs to go far enough in to keep the bushing from coming out, not to smash it against the hub. The lip needs to be able to move so it doesn't bind on the shaft. It looks like this when assembled:










The upper cup bushing fits by pressing it into the hub; it may take a little work to get the lip started. It clicks in place and won't come out unless you pry on it:










Here's the parts ready for assembly (oh, not quite as the upper bushing isn't in yet. Oops):










The black mark denotes the oblong hole as the threads aren't as good and I wanted to make sure I didn't force that screw too much. Next, I install the hub to the base with my locking screws:










The final assembly:










I lubricated everything with light machine oil (about 10W) and figured that I'll monitor it and make sure it doesn't dry up. If it does, I may switch to 20W or maybe silicone oil.

This shows the spring, which caused some problems. Because it spent countless hours running against the hub instead of where it belonged, it had some surface wear:










I had shortened it by about 3/8" before all this and even after all the work, it still had trouble driving the fan (even though the fan turned like butter). It was fine on the motor, but it slipped on the fan. I trimmed another 1/2" from it to no avail. I replaced it with the o-ring pictured above and it worked fine.

The o-ring in question is .103" cross section and 1.487" ID (no. 128).

I also had some trouble with the cup not spinning when it had always worked before. I determined that somewhere along the line the tire on the fan motor got some oil on it. A little IPA did the trick.

I also noticed that when you force the cup down so it's flush with the fan bushing, it doesn't turn. It needs to ride up on the motor tire a little bit; just turning the cup when it is running frees the cup so it rides on the motor tire properly. I suppose this is good design as it keeps the cup from bearing down on the fan bushing (and the hub surface that would bear against the bushing isn't exactly a fine bearing surface).

I also tried replacing the tire with an o-ring; the one I had at hand fit pretty much like the tire and the cup rode up just like the tire. It would turn when pressed down, but the o-ring didn't fit into the groove properly when I did this; it left a space between the groove just before it made contact with the cup (a video would show this much better than I can explain it).

Allowing it to resume the normal cup position, the o-ring fit the motor tightly (and it was tight when sitting static on the motor). I'll add information about the o-ring size when I get another chance to try it; I just decided to use the tire as it worked properly. I did flip the tire over so the lip was downward; the cup rode lower but still wouldn't work if I pressed it down.

As you can see above, one of the resistors is not happy; I'm sure as a result of the fan not turning for decades (did I mention the previous owner was an idiot). I suppose the best thing is to source replacement(s). I wonder why the other looks so fresh? Did it get replaced somewhere along the line? The lack of dirt says "yes". I'm curious why it would have gone out first as it has a big vent below it and the other does not.

Anyway, I hope this has been informative. If and when I do something else significant, I'll be sure to report. Thank you for reading.


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## ExpiredWatchdog

Watchmaster Main Fuse

I recently got another Watchmaster, an A1 known for overheating. I got it because the price was right (shipping and ebay charges). It arrived with a blown main fuse. The blown fuse was marked "LITTELFUSE-USA" and "5A-32V" (Humm?). There was no size marking but it did have the remains of a decal on the glass that might have specified a size. 

The fuse next to it was marked "326 8AG" and "2A 125V" (more to my liking). I tried to find a supplier for a 5A 125V 8AG fuse and did find some, but they were clearly NOS and the prices reflected this. 

I can't remember what lead me to this (maybe a manufacturers cross-reference) but I determined the current packaging spec is "AGX". The fuse itself is marked "250V" on one end and "AGX-5A" on the other. The Digikey P/N is 283-2043-ND. The fuse is BUSS and their P/N is BK/AGX-5. 

Thought it might be useful to others.

Watchdog


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## djolemag

I would check it this way:
Temporarily attach/solder auromatic circuit breaker with low rating, like 2A and low voltage and test machine first.
If everything works well, replace fuse with closest match. Voltage is not a big deal, amperage is more important, so 2A 125V could do a job.
Finally, if you find it useful, try to use some online sources to calculate wire size for that voltage and current... Then simply replace wire in broken glass fuse. 

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk


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## Richard1079

I’m looking for specs for a a1t transformer. I have a bad one


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## Richard1079

Ive restored over a dozen units. Spring belt, dyer heating pd, bushings, fan motors, grills, side cup holders, dryer tops, dryer pulleys, switch for off wash rince are all available. Swithes, pulleys, grills etc I had made. Almost all failures are do to filth from spilled chemical. guys dont fill cups while in machines, and dry off the rinse basket before putting it in dryer. that dried rinse gums up the motor slide,causes the spring to eat the pulley, ruins the swith etc. Its amazing the abuse these take before ceasing to work


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## Richard1079

Sometimes the pulleys wear out if spring belt has rough spot. Aircraft aluminum on a lave and had a few made


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## Richard1079

Picts of pulleys


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## Richard1079

I restore these and have most parts . I have 100 springs, bushings, fan motor pulleys, heater pads, nylon washers, fan switches, matched tube sets ……/ fan bushing run dry. The rinse flying around just gums up the bushings, nylons washers etc. try and get as much off can before drying and keep all clean with reg cleaning. Add liquid metal to top of dryer can spindles . Any questions just send me a question..


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## Richard1079

ExpiredWatchdog said:


> Thanks for the clues above. @Richard1079, I have a set of bushings on order, didn't think I'd need the spring at $30 or that I can source an equivalent for much less (even at Grainger). @ccwatchmaker, are you using an o-ring in place of the spring? I just noticed that my fan is hit-and-miss, sometimes it turns and sometimes the spring slips. I lubricated the bushings, cut about a quarter inch from the spring and also cleaned it and both pulleys, all to no avail. My next though is to source an o-ring.


The pulley is badly worn so spring is riding way to far inside effective makingvspring too long. We have new pulleys made and have 6 in stock


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## Fred.S

Hi everyone,








I have a bit of an issue with my watchmaster mark ll, the dryer doesn’t spin, it heats up but won’t spin, also there’s like an exposed wire that shorts the machine if I touch it with a screwdriver. The machine looks good and I plugged it in and it worked without touching anything.
Anyone knows what might be wrong?
Thank you in advance


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