# Why is lume so poor?



## mcarter7

I am amazed by how poor the lume is on my DA46. Looking at the watch in daylight you would think this watch would have magnificent lume. The lumed areas on the hands and elsewhere are so large. Yet it is so weak as to hardly be useful.

Does anyone know why this is? Is lume really expensive to apply? These watches cost several times as much as Seikos, Timexes, etc but have much poorer lume. Is it possible Damasko cheaped out on the chemical used, or is there some other explanation for the poor results? Just curious if there is an explanation.


----------



## TheBigBadGRIM

Yeah, it's unfortunate for the black dial watches. The C2 lume on full-lume white dial watches is great. As soon as I put a shadow on that watch I see a green dial.


----------



## Happy Acres

mcarter7 said:


> I am amazed by how poor the lume is on my DA46. Looking at the watch in daylight you would think this watch would have magnificent lume. The lumed areas on the hands and elsewhere are so large. Yet it is so weak as to hardly be useful.
> 
> Does anyone know why this is? Is lume really expensive to apply? These watches cost several times as much as Seikos, Timexes, etc but have much poorer lume. Is it possible Damasko cheaped out on the chemical used, or is there some other explanation for the poor results? Just curious if there is an explanation.


 You surely exaggerate- my TEN year old DA36 is clearly visible all night, into the pre dawn hour. Is it a Seiko diver, no, but hardly useful? Come on!


----------



## GreatScott

Here is what I found out with mine. Yes, it is not a beacon, and I agree I like a brighter lume as well. However, it must be a high grade because even after 10 hours in complete darkness it is still glowing. So, while it is not the brightest it sure does last a long time.


----------



## StufflerMike

As already mentioned elsewhere Damasko use Superluminova in a special grade, some say "1", other say "A". This grade is not related to the "relative brightness" (see SuperLuminova charts all over the www) it is about the luminosity decay.
Grade 1 or A lume must glow at least 25% brighter than normal lume, and it had to remain visible for at least 700 minutes (vs 570 related to "normal" lume).
Hope this helps to differ.


----------



## UnfortunateDateWindow

I've owned two black-dialed Damaskos (DA44 and 46), plus a handful of other lumed watches of varying styles and price ranges, and I wouldn't say the Damaskos are noticeably better or worse than any other lumed watch I've seen.

*All* lume is disappointing to me. It looks great if you were just outside in the sun and then go into a dark room, but it's so short-lived that it's hardly ever noticeably glowing or particularly useful in the evening or night. A high-contrast dial is much more important to nighttime visibility in most cases.

That said, among the black-dialed Damasko models, those with markers (e.g. DA44) are noticeably better than those with numbers. The marker-dial watches have the entire marker lumed, while the number-dialed watches only have little lume squares next to the numbers. So in practice, e.g. the DA44 is much better for low-light legibility than the DA46.

(The all-lume white-dial models are a whole other beast - I haven't owned one, but ask around here and it's pretty clearly an acquired taste with its own drawbacks.)


----------



## Nokie

> I've owned two black-dialed Damaskos (DA44 and 46), plus a handful of other lumed watches of varying styles and price ranges, and I wouldn't say the Damaskos are noticeably better or worse than any other lumed watch I've seen.


My experience as well. Not great, not bad.


----------



## King_Joe

UnfortunateDateWindow said:


> I've owned two black-dialed Damaskos (DA44 and 46), plus a handful of other lumed watches of varying styles and price ranges, and I wouldn't say the Damaskos are noticeably better or worse than any other lumed watch I've seen.
> 
> *All* lume is disappointing to me. It looks great if you were just outside in the sun and then go into a dark room, but it's so short-lived that it's hardly ever noticeably glowing or particularly useful in the evening or night. A high-contrast dial is much more important to nighttime visibility in most cases.
> 
> That said, among the black-dialed Damasko models, those with markers (e.g. DA44) are noticeably better than those with numbers. The marker-dial watches have the entire marker lumed, while the number-dialed watches only have little lume squares next to the numbers. So in practice, e.g. the DA44 is much better for low-light legibility than the DA46.
> 
> (The all-lume white-dial models are a whole other beast - I haven't owned one, but ask around here and it's pretty clearly an acquired taste with its own drawbacks.)


I would have to disagree with you in regards to the All lumed Damasko. My DC57 Si is always legible under any lighting condition even after a long night by the bed. It does not glow like a flashlight, but it is easily readable. The amazing thing about it is that you can also read the chronograph function in complete darkness, which makes it one of the best chronograph watches to use in the dark. 
Wish the date wheel was lumed as well.

Here is a picture that shows how the chronograph is visible from the lume. However I charged the watch before the picture to be able to take it using my phone's camera, so do not expect the watch to glow as bright for long.


----------



## jrfisher810

I agree that the lume is not great on my DC56 (compared to seiko, superluminova...), but it still is effective enough to be seen in dim lighting and definitely in darkness. If that is the only "bad" thing about a great value watch I'd say that is A-okay.


----------



## Buellrider

Lumed day/date wheels would be awesome.


----------



## Chris Stark

It is not the best (or worst) lume but I can still read the time on my DA36 in a pitch dark room many hours later. However, it's hard to read in a semi-dark room or at the movies.


----------



## Ramos84

dc56 lume compared to a 200$ orient

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Happy Acres

My $65 Seiko lume looks like your Orient, and so?


----------



## Ramos84

Happy Acres said:


> My $65 Seiko lume looks like your Orient, and so?


First, the orient lume is impressive! 
Second, I'm a bit disappointed with the damasko lume.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Happy Acres

Very satisfied with the lume on my Damaskos, especially after long periods (7-9 hours) of darkness , it is still perfectly visible. I care more about longevity than wearing a torch for the first few minutes.


----------



## timefleas

Happy Acres said:


> My $65 Seiko lume looks like your Orient, and so?


It supports the contended observation that the lume on the DA36 is relatively weak--clearly demonstrated in the photo--the DA36 lume IS weak, which can be clearly seen when compared to other Superluminova samples.

There are other threads on this site that show degradation of lume at hourly intervals (1 hour, 3 hour, 5 hour, 7 hour) over the night, comparing them to other brands, and to other lume types/grades. If you want lume that will truly last the night through, or a month, then no superluminova, no matter what "level" or "grade," can hold a candle to tritium tubes.


----------



## Happy Acres

Respectfully I do not agree. Long lasting compared to numerous others I have owned. Imo brightest at the start does not = best.


----------



## nepatriot

Agree brightest does not equal best, especially if your after duration. 

Comparisons to Seiko and Orient divers may be a bit unfair, relative to each watch's purpose. Dive watches by design need (or needed, historically) lume that would be VERY bright for a short duration. Minutes rather than hours, especially when considering how much time in a dive is at higher depth where lume is not as important as it is when down at depths were sunlight does not reach. 

These Damasko watches are not designed as divers. Damasko is perhaps more a pilot watch, or a tool watch. So perhaps not so much a pitch black dark environment. 

Some watches are designed for uses where long lasting lume is desirable vs. short and very bright lume. Watches with tritium tubes, like Marathon, are good for that. Having owned several Marathon's, their lume is not as bright as a Seiko diver, especially right up front. Seiko's are like torches out of the gate, but over time, as your eyes adjust to the dark, and the Seiko starts to fade, the advantage of tritium lume becomes clear.


----------



## ldo123

Compared to my Tudor Pelagos and my Oris Aquis Date, my DC 66 Si has inferior lume. Even after a full night in pitch black darkness, both the Tudor and the Oris are well legible, while you really have to concentrate on reading the time on the Damasko. Also the luminiscence on the hour hands of the DC 66 Si is quite spotty and inhomogenous, when compared to that of the other 2 watches. I have never quite understood why Damasko hasn't decided to add lume to the numbers on the black dial watches, as well as to the second hand marker. Despite all this criticism, I still love my DC 66 Si but decent lume would make it so much more versatile...


----------



## voiceman

I own an IWC Pilots Mark XVII and, although the lume is initially great, it fades pretty quickly. My Damasko DA-35 with the full face lume maintains an initially strong lume that fades but remains visible much longer. My favorite lume watch remains my Ball Trainmaster with its tritium tubes. If you want lume that is the best IMHO.


----------



## Dive watch lover

I think my DA46 lume is maybe comparable to other PILOT/FIELD watches [which is to say not great], but I keep asking myself two questions. 1. why didn't Damasko lume the numbers? More lume equals better visibility. 2. why didn't Damasko make it dive-watch bright? I don't see a reason for not doing these two things. If they did, it would be THE perfect watch! I mean, my Sinn 556 has better lume, so I know it can be done.


----------



## ldo123

I second that!


----------



## themeister

The lume is subpar hands down, there's no two ways about it. Why they can't fix such a banal problem is beyond me. And why did they decide to add the "Made in Germany" inscription on the dial?! Detracts from the clean aesthetic and is totally unnecessary imo. Other than that, I love the watch.


----------



## StufflerMike

> And why did they decide to add the "Made in Germany" inscription on the dial?


Email Damasko and ask. However, we discussed this already in another thread.


----------



## Happy Acres

themeister said:


> The lume is subpar hands down, there's no two ways about it. Why they can't fix such a banal problem is beyond me. And why did they decide to add the "Made in Germany" inscription on the dial?! Detracts from the clean aesthetic and is totally unnecessary imo. Other than that, I love the watch.


I do not get this ocd fixation about lume. No it is NOT a Seiko diver!! My lume is fine, and visible all night. Is it a torch? No, it is not a torch, but it works well!


----------



## Happy Acres

remove please, double post.


----------



## Stefano Lorenzo

the damasko lume on the non white dial models, needs to be improved


----------



## StufflerMike

Stefano Lorenzo said:


> the damasko lume on the non white dial models, needs to be improved


To each his own, I am satisfied with the lume of my DC 66, DA 343 and I do love my DA 20 without any lume.


----------



## verl20

The lume on my DK 10 isn't nearly as bright as some of my other watches, but it's still my favorite watch!


----------



## themeister

The lume on my DA36 sucks. Yes, I can get it that bright if I take a picture right after exposing the dial to very bright light. But it diminishes so rapidly it's near useless after 10 minutes. In total darkness I can make it out if I really look hard, but if there's any light at all it's near impossible to see anything unless I utilize peripheral vision.


----------



## Wahlaoeh

Fret not. Tool watch it may be but it's common that it has lousy lume 

My 10 year old omega has much better lume than my sinn who's half the former's age


----------



## Happy Acres

themeister said:


> The lume on my DA36 sucks. Yes, I can get it that bright if I take a picture right after exposing the dial to very bright light. But it diminishes so rapidly it's near useless after 10 minutes. In total darkness I can make it out if I really look hard, but if there's any light at all it's near impossible to see anything unless I utilize peripheral vision.


Very good lume as I see it, visible all night, very useful indeed!


----------



## themeister

Not on mine.


----------



## EnerVR

My DA36 has pretty bad lume too. It glows ok, but isn't applied well or uniformly. Pretty low point for the watch.


----------



## Happy Acres

My DA35, also perfectly useful, no complaints at all


----------



## whineboy

themeister said:


> The lume on my DA36 sucks. Yes, I can get it that bright if I take a picture right after exposing the dial to very bright light. But it diminishes so rapidly it's near useless after 10 minutes. In total darkness I can make it out if I really look hard, but if there's any light at all it's near impossible to see anything unless I utilize peripheral vision.


themeister, you only say that 'cause you don't have my two Hamiltons, whose lume makes my DA46's lume seem good.


----------



## 41Mets

My lume experience on all my german watches has been ehh. Looks fresh when it's charged and doesn't last long. But I like everything else about them so it's all good../


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## themeister

41Mets said:


> My lume experience on all my german watches has been ehh. Looks fresh when it's charged and doesn't last long. But I like everything else about them so it's all good../
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Exactly, looks good at first then fizzes out way too quickly. I need to use the rods in the periphery because if I look directly at the lumed bits it "disappears" since it's so dim the fovea can't pick up on it. Using averted vision on a 1000 EUR watch is kind of uninspiring. Other than the lume, the unnecessary Made in Germany thing on the dial, and the ease with which the glass gets smudged, I can't find anything I don't like about the DA36. It's almost the perfect watch in my mind.


----------



## robzilla

It is funny I was just on the phone with Greg from the Watchmann and was ordering a Damasko DA-38. I was telling him how I was a member of WUS forum and have been collecting watches for over 10 years, yada, yada, and I told him that I once had a DA-36 but sold it because the lume was so bad. We had a nice conversation and he didn't say it had improved but looking at pics online it seemed they had improved. 

So I just got the watch from Greg(Excellent Service!!) and it is absolutely perfect then I did my standard lume check and low and behold the end of the minute hand is much darker than the rest of the hands. Very upsetting but when reading the manual this is clearly stated as not a defect. 

It is very odd that in such an otherwise perfect watch they would ignore lume but I had a Sinn U1 and it had similar but not as bad issues. Since I would assume it is made to be a tactical watch I can see you would not want a torch on your wrist but uniform and better quality application would be better. 

Still I think one of the best watches I have ever owned!


----------



## Happy Acres

Saying they ignored it is really a stretch.

Sounds like the exposure was not uniform, try your "standard" test again (whatever that is) with even light exposure and post a pic (or not)

Did it look similar to this


----------



## robzilla

Happy Acres said:


> Saying they ignored it is really a stretch.
> 
> Sounds like the exposure was not uniform, try your "standard" test again (whatever that is) with even light exposure and post a pic (or not)
> 
> Did it look similar to this
> 
> View attachment 11442114


The lume on your dial is better in two ways. First the hands are more uniform. Specially on the end of the minute hand. On mine right where the minute hand starts to make a point. That section does not glow like the rest of the hand. Similar to your hour hand but much worse. Plus on your dial the markers glow much better.

However, even with this irregularity the legibility lasts throughout the night. I agree to say ignore was an exaggeration but it just doesn't make sense why some companies like Helson really make their watches glow and others like Sinn and Damasko, Glycine and many others just don't.

I do not care that it glow like a torch in fact, I really like the long lasting but not as bright blue SL and really just like the glow to be functional and uniform. I just hate when hands or markers on any watch are uneven, inconsistent etc.

It is just a why don't they make it perfect when it can be done when clearly they have made an effort to improve the lume as it seems better on the new models than I remember in my old DA36 many years back.

It doesn't ruin the watch and I was overly harsh since I just got a DA38 and did not have a chance to spend the night with it. I have now and despite the uneven application of SL on the minute hand could easily read the time at 5:30 this morning. The dial you have would be clearer at night but I have a Marathon GSAR for really good lume.

So I amend my earlier comments and just wish the application of SL was a little better on the hands and it would be really nice if the hour markers were just a little bigger. Overall though it has improved and the compound they use lasts a long time.


----------



## heb

Because the quality and/or the quantity of lume applied to the components is/are insufficient. It is typically the best way for a watch company to save on production costs.

Makes sense, right?

heb



mcarter7 said:


> I am amazed by how poor the lume is on my DA46. Looking at the watch in daylight you would think this watch would have magnificent lume. The lumed areas on the hands and elsewhere are so large. Yet it is so weak as to hardly be useful.
> 
> Does anyone know why this is? Is lume really expensive to apply? These watches cost several times as much as Seikos, Timexes, etc but have much poorer lume. Is it possible Damasko cheaped out on the chemical used, or is there some other explanation for the poor results? Just curious if there is an explanation.


----------



## VHD

41Mets said:


> My lume experience on all my german watches has been ehh. Looks fresh when it's charged and doesn't last long.


 Same here, I had one Damasko and one Sinn and both were shocking especially since they were allegedly supposed to be flieger watches. It seems almost as if they were taking pride in their bad lume/lume application, regardless how we'd call it.


----------



## Happy Acres

Nice embellishment, just shocking!


----------



## WatchThisKnifeThat

UnfortunateDateWindow said:


> I've owned two black-dialed Damaskos (DA44 and 46), plus a handful of other lumed watches of varying styles and price ranges, and I wouldn't say the Damaskos are noticeably better or worse than any other lumed watch I've seen.
> 
> *All* lume is disappointing to me. It looks great if you were just outside in the sun and then go into a dark room, but it's so short-lived that it's hardly ever noticeably glowing or particularly useful in the evening or night. A high-contrast dial is much more important to nighttime visibility in most cases.
> 
> That said, among the black-dialed Damasko models, those with markers (e.g. DA44) are noticeably better than those with numbers. The marker-dial watches have the entire marker lumed, while the number-dialed watches only have little lume squares next to the numbers. So in practice, e.g. the DA44 is much better for low-light legibility than the DA46.
> 
> (The all-lume white-dial models are a whole other beast - I haven't owned one, but ask around here and it's pretty clearly an acquired taste with its own drawbacks.)


My experience with lume is more in line with the above ^^

Charged and looks super good for maybe an hour or so across all different brands and then it's just a very, very subtle glow. Readable, but not nearly as exciting as it's initial showcase. I suppose as long as you can read the time that's all that matters.


----------



## TheBigBadGRIM

Yesterday I left my watch in my bathroom and went to go get it. I didn't even need to turn the lights on to find it. I just went to the big green glow near the corner and grabbed it. No lume problems with my full-lume dial watch.


----------

