# Making a Miyota 8215 manual-wind only? to reduce noise?..remove rotor mechanism?



## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Was curious on how to remove the rotor (or entire auto mechanism) on a Miyota 8215?

I wanted to have the option of making an 8215 to be MANUAL-WIND ONLY.......and rattle-free. I notice some 8215s are rather noisy, because of the rotor. I find it kind of a neat modification just for manual-wind, especially if done rather easily.

Is this pretty straightforward to accomplish? 

I am comfortable with removing casebacks, taking out movements, regulating, hand replacing....just never done something like this.

Is the rotor just part of a gear assembly that can be unscrewed and plucked out? or is it a lot more complicated than that for a basic DIYer. 

Thanks for any info!


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

I don't have an 8215 in front of me, but my memory is that the rotor is just held on by one screw at the top like many other automatic movements. You unscrew the screw, chuck it out the window, and then throw the rotor out after is and , voila, you have a hand wound movement.


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## Count_Zero (Oct 2, 2009)

How about a little light oil on the ball race. I often find that makes a big difference to the operation of the auto system on the 8215.


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

Count_Zero said:


> How about a little light oil on the ball race. I often find that makes a big difference to the operation of the auto system on the 8215.


A watch is not an automobile.Oil should be used very sparingly. I would advise against oiling the ball bearing race on two grounds: the oil will migrate to the rest of the watch and cause problems. Secondly even if it doesn't do this, it will eventually harden in the ball bearing race itself and interfere with the function of the watch.

The reason that the ball bearing race in a 8215 makes noise is because the 8215 is an economically constructed watch, and this is the best they can do for the money alloted.


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## RON in PA (Sep 11, 2007)

Does this movement even allow manual winding? Unless it can be manually wound with the auto mechanism in place, removing that mechanism will result in a watch with no power. I'm not familiar with Miyotas but if they are like low end Seikos and Orients there is no manual winding.


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## DropLock (Jul 28, 2009)

Check to see if it can be manually wound, if so then as suggested all you need to do is remove the centrally located screw which retains the rotor. Gently lift the rotor off and your done. Keep the rotor and screw incase you want to replace it again one day.


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## Count_Zero (Oct 2, 2009)

Somewhere else said:


> A watch is not an automobile.Oil should be used very sparingly. I would advise against oiling the ball bearing race on two grounds: the oil will migrate to the rest of the watch and cause problems. Secondly even if it doesn't do this, it will eventually harden in the ball bearing race itself and interfere with the function of the watch.
> 
> The reason that the ball bearing race in a 8215 makes noise is because the 8215 is an economically constructed watch, and this is the best they can do for the money alloted.


That is why I said a _little_ light oil.
My experience of the 8215 indicates that the lubricants used in the movement have a tendency to turn into something really rather unpleasant, causing all sorts of problems, especially on the auto winding side of things. The best thing to do is a complete strip and clean, and proper re-lube with good quality lubricants. Of course, after cleaning, the ball race will need lubricating, otherwise it is extremely inefficient, assuming it runs at all.
Yes, the 8215 is a cheap movement, but with a little care, can be turned into a fairly good and reliable runner.

Just don't go using Duckhams or Penzoil in it.


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

Count_Zero said:


> That is why I said a _little_ light oil.
> My experience of the 8215 indicates that the lubricants used in the movement have a tendency to turn into something really rather unpleasant, causing all sorts of problems, especially on the auto winding side of things. The best thing to do is a complete strip and clean, and proper re-lube with good quality lubricants. Of course, after cleaning, the ball race will need lubricating, otherwise it is extremely inefficient, assuming it runs at all.
> Yes, the 8215 is a cheap movement, but with a little care, can be turned into a fairly good and reliable runner.
> 
> Just don't go using Duckhams or Penzoil in it.


Next time I do a 8215, I'll give it a try. I'm pretty adverse to oiling ball bearing races, but it might help in this case. Fortunately, there are no hard and fast rules in watchmaking.

Someday if I get a chance to get to wherever they make the 8215, I'll try to get a factory tour. I'm here in Japan. I gather that you can get several different grades of lubrication ex factory. Also, I've seen German companies that use the 8215, after tearing it down and re oiling it add a damper spring to stop second hand flutter.

It is an economical movement, but it's also pretty reliable as you say.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Yes, the Miyota 8215 can manually be wound as well as being auto-wound.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks for all the informative replies. My noisy 8215-based watch is a new Laco. From what I read, the 8215 is supposed to be very reliable, but well-known to be noisy, most of the noise seems to be when the rotor settles and sounds like rattle. I notice odd LOUD noises in 2824-2 based watches too. Was just shaking an Omega Valjoux 7750, and is suprisingly not so quiet for a high-end movement . The noise doesn't bother me really, I am just very curious, and if I do this, I would do it mostly for the hell of it. 

I can't imagine the well-regarded 7s26/36 costing much more than an 8215 as 7s26/36 are in $50 watches. That's probably what makes it a gem, cheap and ultra-reliable,


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## diaboliq (Apr 23, 2008)

I was planning to do the same thing on 8215 but didn't know if it's possible. Other than that I wanted to paint the rotor to some other color so it would look better trough the caseback. Opinions?

I want this ugly thing..










To become something like this:


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## Beau (Jun 2, 2006)

bigvatch said:


> Was curious on how to remove the rotor (or entire auto mechanism) on a Miyota 8215?
> 
> I wanted to have the option of making an 8215 to be MANUAL-WIND ONLY.......and rattle-free. I notice some 8215s are rather noisy, because of the rotor. I find it kind of a neat modification just for manual-wind, especially if done rather easily.
> 
> ...


I realize that this thread is several months old however I'm curious to learn if anyone ever actually attempted the conversion to manual wind by simply removing the rotor and if so, what was the result?


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Somewhere else said:


> I'm pretty adverse to oiling ball bearing races, but it might help in this case. Fortunately, there are no hard and fast rules in watchmaking.


Huh?

ETA's oiling sheeyts are pretty clear on the subject, two arrows indicating Moebius 9010 fine watch oil directly on the roller elements....



Somewhere else said:


> Also, I've seen German companies that use the 8215, after tearing it down and re oiling it add a damper spring to stop second hand flutter.


The Miyota 8205 comes with a spring damper for the second wheel....

As to whether it would work:

The resulting movement wouldn't look to pretty, with the bearing and rotor post exposed, but it would work.


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## portroyal (Apr 22, 2010)

my 8215 is super quit.. is that an anomaly?


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## preacher62 (Jul 15, 2008)

Beau said:


> I realize that this thread is several months old however I'm curious to learn if anyone ever actually attempted the conversion to manual wind by simply removing the rotor and if so, what was the result?


I have worked on an 8215 but not a manual wind Miyota. On the ETA movements the manual wind models have much beefier winding gear on the barrel. It is not recommended to wind an auto wind model manually on a regular basis as the ratchet will wear out very quickly.

Just a side note...you can buy a new 8215 from Ofrei for about $38 bucks. I wouldn't spend to much time and energy on it.


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## carlowus (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes this has been done, here is a link to one of these that has a photo of the back showing the rotorless Laco.

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=301802


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## rmelle (Feb 13, 2010)

Dear,
I've read the thread partial, so maybe my question is stupid:
When changing an automatic watch in handwinding:
Change the mainspring!
you must have an end hook to the spring.
if not done: HHHmmm NOT good.
BUT: why change a VERY good and VERY reliable auto into something..... hhhmmm...... "stupid"
Why take the turbo out of a Saab 900 TURBO car/engine?
It just makes no sence!


regards,
RJ van melle.


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## portroyal (Apr 22, 2010)

question bump...

how many different rotor styles does the 8215 have? I've noticed two; one solid like pictured above, and one with a half circle with lines on the end. Are there others? and can you date the 8215 by which rotor it has?


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## rmelle (Feb 13, 2010)

Dear,
When it leaves the Miyota factury: standard rotor is fitted.
If the ebauche goes to a higher classed brand the rotor is subject to changes.
Those changes can be from gold filling to.... you name it......
If it has the designed weight any watch brand could use any kind of Rotor design.
The second Miyota (with the nicer Rotor) is clearly modified to a higher standard, so a different rotor is mounted, more swiss like style....

regards,
RJ van Melle.


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## MadMex (Jun 18, 2010)

I find the noise my Invicta 8926 with the Miyota 8215 makes oddly reassuring... :-!


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## charmquark (Oct 14, 2009)

I found this thread because I was wondering whether there was a manual wind movement which is a direct swap for the Chinese DG2813, it presents me with another alternative. Thanks.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

rmelle said:


> When changing an automatic watch in handwinding:
> Change the mainspring!
> you must have an end hook to the spring.
> if not done: HHHmmm NOT good.


No, you don't have to change the mainspring, and you don't *HAVE* to have a hook end, an automatic bridle will work.....



charmquark said:


> I found this thread because I was wondering whether there was a manual wind movement which is a direct swap for the Chinese DG2813, it presents me with another alternative. Thanks.


There are, you might try asking in the Chinese forum. If anyone knows caliber numbers and such, they would.


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## Skoghen (Jan 24, 2020)

Searched and found this thread but didn't really find a direct answer. I have a cheap watch that I 1. Want to make manual wind because it's a flieger.
2. Want to remove the noice.

Can I just remove the caseback, unscrew the rotor, throw out the screw and rotor and put on the caseback and I'm good to go?


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

Skoghen said:


> Searched and found this thread but didn't really find a direct answer. I have a cheap watch that I 1. Want to make manual wind because it's a flieger.
> 2. Want to remove the noice.
> 
> Can I just remove the caseback, unscrew the rotor, throw out the screw and rotor and put on the caseback and I'm good to go?


Yes. If you are really anal, you can remove the autowind parts...however there is no autowind "module"...the bridge also has train components under it. For the novice, remove the rotor retaining screw and rotor and then get out of there without contaminating the movement. (BTW, save the screw and rotor, should you wish to re-install at a later date).

Regards, BG


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## Skoghen (Jan 24, 2020)

BenchGuy said:


> Yes. If you are really anal, you can remove the autowind parts...however there is no autowind "module"...the bridge also has train components under it. For the novice, remove the rotor retaining screw and rotor and then get out of there without contaminating the movement. (BTW, save the screw and rotor, should you wish to re-install at a later date).
> 
> Regards, BG


Thanks!


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