# Heads up - problem with Chronomaster Sport, being sent back to Le Locle



## bbdo

The 60 minute counter at 6 o'clock began dragging during normal wear. During the day, it would start to advance ever so slightly, and the watch would fall behind by a few minutes per day. It got worse and worse. I took a photo two days in a row to show the issue, and Zenith requested that I send it in. The US service center let me know this AM that they are sending it back to Le Locle for further evaluation. I haven't seen anything about this issue, so I thought it would be helpful to post here for others. I will update once it comes back.

Service has been outstanding so far.

Wearing my Omega MK40 Schumacher edition with original tritium lume in the interim..


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## FishingForFishies

Sorry to hear about the issues you are having. Another user did report that same problem with the chrono minute hand on a Chronomaster Original, which uses the same movement. 

I’ve had issues with a prior CM sport and seen some odd things with my current one. It’s my assessment that the El Primero 3600 movement has some quirks and QC issues at the moment.


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## JC316

bbdo said:


> The 60 minute counter at 6 o'clock began dragging during normal wear. During the day, it would start to advance ever so slightly, and the watch would fall behind by a few minutes per day. It got worse and worse. I took a photo two days in a row to show the issue, and Zenith requested that I send it in. The US service center let me know this AM that they are sending it back to Le Locle for further evaluation. I haven't seen anything about this issue, so I thought it would be helpful to post here for others. I will update once it comes back.
> 
> Service has been outstanding so far.
> 
> Wearing my Omega MK40 Schumacher edition with original tritium lume in the interim..


I'm a little confused by your post and just asking to understand better. 

Are you running your chronograph for long periods if time?

When you say the watch would fall behind a few minutes a day, you are referring to the main minute hand?

Live life without regret and in good health!


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## bbdo

JC316 said:


> I'm a little confused by your post and just asking to understand better.
> 
> Are you running your chronograph for long periods if time?
> 
> When you say the watch would fall behind a few minutes a day, you are referring to the main minute hand?
> 
> Live life without regret and in good health!


I was not running it for long periods, no. It is almost as if there is parasitic drag in the drive train, connected to the minute counter dial at 6 o'clock. When NOT running in chrono mode, that dial would advance during the day until I reset the chrono. it would then begin advancing once again while not running. the overall watch time would start to fall behind, too. I hope this makes sense.

And to be clear, it was never dropped, never saw more action beyond my WFH jail cell


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## JC316

Man! That sucks! I hope you can get it resolved soon! Keep us up to date!

Live life without regret and in good health!


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## FirstF80InSpace

My Chronomaster Original has the same issue, albeit not as serious. From time to time, the minute subdial at 6 o’clock would advance one minute when the chronograph wasn’t running. It’s funny because it’s just a single minute, then it’s fine. This would happen sporadically. And also seems to happen more when the watch is running out of energy. When it’s fully wound, it doesn’t happen often. 

I don’t think it I’ll send it in for warranty because it may or may not show up at the service centre. Kind of like when you’re car experiences a funny noise, but the dealership can’t recreate it so they don’t know what to fix.


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## DLSVRF

Interesting to see more of these issues being reported. Hopefully isolated incidents and not a trend but as someone interested in a new Zenith, certainly not great to see...


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## Mikeh0109

Just curious to hear if there was an update on how the service went at Le Locle.


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## bbdo

Mikeh0109 said:


> Just curious to hear if there was an update on how the service went at Le Locle.


No update yet. I pinged the US folks and they are checking.


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## TightLines612

I had this same issue on a watch. Sent it back and the replacement had a different movement issue. If you poke around you’ll see this is not an isolated incident. Zenith service managers stated they had not seen this before but you’re the 5th person I know of with the issue.


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## bbdo

TightLines612 said:


> I had this same issue on a watch. Sent it back and the replacement had a different movement issue. If you poke around you’ll see this is not an isolated incident. Zenith service managers stated they had not seen this before but you’re the 5th person I know of with the issue.





bbdo said:


> No update yet. I pinged the US folks and they are checking.


Still no word on the return of my watch.


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## Tzoid

I'm following.... My Authorized dealer offered to get me a Chrono Sport at a slight discount but I have to put down a non-refundable deposit and wait for them to get one. I have never owned a Zenith so I may hold off and see how this goes. I need to feel good about the brand and specific movement before shelling out close to 10K.


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## bbdo

still no updates and no watch..


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## 54B

bbdo said:


> still no updates and no watch..


Cheers for keeping us all updated. Hope you get it back soon.


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## FBPB

bbdo said:


> still no updates and no watch..


Is this still the case? If so, this is rather disappointing...


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## Tzoid

I realize this is an isolated case and can't find a drove of people having problems so I'll take it for that. I hope you get it resolved soon.


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## Tzoid

Zenith is supposed to have a price increase April 1st.... No updates on this watch has me hesitant to buy one.


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## Jmin81

I just sent my watch to the NJ service center for the same issue. Hopefully I'll get it back fixed in a month or so...


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## bbdo

Finally got notification from the US Service center that the watch has been repaired. They will send it back to the states, and then on to me. 

I sent this in around the week of December 20. I don't believe I will make that mistake again, honestly. I even saw a youtube video review of this watch, and it had the same issue that the owner apparently hadn't noticed. Just not worth the effort and being without the watch for so long.


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## Tzoid

bbdo said:


> Finally got notification from the US Service center that the watch has been repaired. They will send it back to the states, and then on to me.
> 
> I sent this in around the week of December 20. I don't believe I will make that mistake again, honestly. I even saw a youtube video review of this watch, and it had the same issue that the owner apparently hadn't noticed. Just not worth the effort and being without the watch for so long.


My Authorized dealer called me yesterday to let me know they just received a White Dial Chrono Sport the day before the price increase and asked if I wanted it. This thread helped me with my decision to turn it down. I was getting about a 10% discount from retail and no sales tax so by market standards it was a good deal. I just had a feeling I would regret it in the long run.


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## Snowstrm

I have been a long time lurker here in WUS but thought to register and bring more data to this tread. 

Bought my Zenith CMS 3 months ago and started to see a small drag (~half a minute) of the 60 minutes counter already during the first weeks. A couple of weeks ago the dragging got much worse (several minutes) and I brought the watch back to my AD. Now I got a message from the AD that the watch is going to be sent back to Zenith factory and the AD isn’t able to give me any estimate how long it will take to get the watch back. I really hope it won’t be several months as I really like the watch and would like to wear it during summer.


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## WTSP

Sad to hear that this continues. In discussions last year other forum members and I had theorized that the caliber 3600 would have a lot of growing pains and that Zenith had overextended themselves in releasing too many exotic new movements in a short period of time.








El Primero 3600 Weirdness/Issues


Hello forum, I do not want to jump to conclusions or start ranting about poor QC at Zenith, but the El Primero 3600 movement seems a bit wonky and I’m not sure it’s design is robust/reliable. My first CM Sport had an issue where stopping the chrono would cause the running seconds to stall...




www.watchuseek.com





Most new movements likely have growing pains, but I see this as something more serious. Rolex is probably the gold standard when it comes to reliability and serviceability in the mid tier luxury watch segment. They keep the number of movements and complications n their catalogue comparatively low, design movements to be comparatively simple, and tend to have local service centres or accredited service staff working at local ADs. Zenith basically had the opposite approach and less resources than Rolex to support more complexity. Most other luxury watch brands are in a similar boat. JLC, IWC, Blancpain, Bvlgari, Panerai, etc. They’re recipes for pain and heartache as the long term ownership experience of their new exotica is not going to be good. I saddens me that Zenith is caught up in this. They’re having huge success in sales, but it’s going to bit them later on when the pieces come back for servicing.


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## joshd2012

WTSP said:


> Rolex is probably the gold standard when it comes to reliability and serviceability in the mid tier luxury watch segment. They keep the number of movements and complications n their catalogue comparatively low, design movements to be comparatively simple, and tend to have local service centres or accredited service staff working at local ADs.


I don’t know if I agree with that. If you browse the Rolex/Tudor forum, it sounds like the people with bum movements are getting them replaced instead of fixed. That speeds up the return, but that begs the question of what happens with all those replaced movements? I can’t image they just throw those in the garbage.


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## WTSP

joshd2012 said:


> I don’t know if I agree with that. If you browse the Rolex/Tudor forum, it sounds like the people with bum movements are getting them replaced instead of fixed. That speeds up the return, but that begs the question of what happens with all those replaced movements? I can’t image they just throw those in the garbage.


That wouldn’t surprise me. I have that possibility listed in item B of the thread linked in my signature. Personally I don’t really mind if the movement is swapped, as long as the performance is good and any paperwork that may apply to the new movement is provided with the replacement (ex COSC certificate with coding that matches the caliber). This guy got really upset when Zenith swapped his movement without providing matching papers.








From the Editor: LVMH Service Center Turns the Warranty Repair of My Zenith DEFY El Primero 21 Into a Nightmare — WATCH COLLECTING LIFESTYLE


One watch topic that remains undiscussed is after-sales service and how the luxury watch brands handle warranty and non-warranty repairs. As a watch collector for 30 years now, I have dealt with different authorized service centers almost a dozen times. I have sent watches in for repair in the U.S.




www.watchcollectinglifestyle.com





Of course if the core design is the problem, swapping won’t help much. I have to say that I do have a lot of confidence in the El Primero 400. It appears to have been well built from the start, while also having benefited from improvements in the early 2000 with the Z series calibers which have now become standard. Hopefully the caliber 3600 eventually becomes that reliable. Its core design is mostly from the caliber 400 after all.


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## JC316

joshd2012 said:


> I don’t know if I agree with that. If you browse the Rolex/Tudor forum, it sounds like the people with bum movements are getting them replaced instead of fixed. That speeds up the return, but that begs the question of what happens with all those replaced movements? I can’t image they just throw those in the garbage.


Facts, no brand is without issue. Even at the more premium tiers. 

I purchased a TUDOR GMT knowing that there was an associated date wheel issue. Mine has been running fine, knock on wood. Still sorry to hear OP had such a horrible experience.


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## Tzoid

JC316 said:


> Facts, no brand is without issue. Even at the more premium tiers.
> 
> I purchased a TUDOR GMT knowing that there was an associated date wheel issue. Mine has been running fine, knock on wood. Still sorry to hear OP had such a horrible experience.


My Tudor GMT had the Date Wheel issue and it went back to RSC in Dallas literally the day before most of the USA shut down for Covid-19. My watch spent 4 months having the movement replaced. Knock on wood it's worked well since


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## palletwheel

Honestly after Zenith failed to acquit themselves properly in the Defy Lab debacle I think a few of us looked askance at purchasing any new tech from them. So for those of us who tracked that this is sadly not a surprise. That said, this is an industry wide problem of manufactures passing off their problems to recoup costs at their customers expense. Some links to ponder:









Anyone got the FC Slimline Monolithic yet?


That Laine is nice. I am waiting delivery of a new car which is on the boat, maybe even landed in Tacoma, so I'll need a good chunk of cash for that. So watches are on the back burner now.




www.watchuseek.com










32xx movement problem poll and data thread - Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum


32xx movement problem poll and data thread Rolex General Discussion



www.rolexforums.com


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## Elton Balch

This watch was on my want list until reading about these issues. I’m passing until I hear more positive feedback.


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## Snowstrm

WTSP said:


> Sad to hear that this continues. In discussions last year other forum members and I had theorized that the caliber 3600 would have a lot of growing pains and that Zenith had overextended themselves in releasing too many exotic new movements in a short period of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> El Primero 3600 Weirdness/Issues
> 
> 
> Hello forum, I do not want to jump to conclusions or start ranting about poor QC at Zenith, but the El Primero 3600 movement seems a bit wonky and I’m not sure it’s design is robust/reliable. My first CM Sport had an issue where stopping the chrono would cause the running seconds to stall...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most new movements likely have growing pains, but I see this as something more serious. Rolex is probably the gold standard when it comes to reliability and serviceability in the mid tier luxury watch segment. They keep the number of movements and complications n their catalogue comparatively low, design movements to be comparatively simple, and tend to have local service centres or accredited service staff working at local ADs. Zenith basically had the opposite approach and less resources than Rolex to support more complexity. Most other luxury watch brands are in a similar boat. JLC, IWC, Blancpain, Bvlgari, Panerai, etc. They’re recipes for pain and heartache as the long term ownership experience of their new exotica is not going to be good. I saddens me that Zenith is caught up in this. They’re having huge success in sales, but it’s going to bit them later on when the pieces come back for servicing.


I have had warranty repairs with some of my other watches as well but this is the first for me with Zenith and the first one that needed repair in Switzerland. I’m not surprised that a new chronograph movement has growing pains and I think that is a risk you take when purchasing a watch with a new movement from any brand as we have seen. But as you said it then comes down how the manufacturer handles the warranty process. If the watch spends several months in repair after the owner has owned the watch for only a short time I think it’s not acceptable.

My other watches that have needed warranty service have been fixed locally so they have returned to me rather quickly but as other have written Zenith has other kind of approach for warranty repairs. With this kind of centralized approach Zenith has chosen you should be able to control better the amount of resources you have for warranty repairs compared to having watchmakers positioned in each country/area so I would assume this would mean shorter turnover for the repair. But it seems this is not the case and probably means they don’t have enough staff and/or have had much more warranty repairs than expected.


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## GmtMasterIII

I have started noticing this issue too. 

What I’ve been doing is just running the chrono and then resetting it. But I’m noticing now that even very shortly after that, it’s at about the 30 second mark on the minute counter. 

Last night I looked down and randomly it was at about 2-3 minutes. And I had taken a photo a few hours prior of the watch and it was not in that position. So something happened randomly between those 3 hours. But it’s been about 2 weeks since this happened previously for what it’s worth. 

I really love this watch and don’t want to send it in for service and give it up for an extended period of time. I think I’ll just keep dealing with the issue and leaving it until I hear some better feedback about serving the 3600 movement. 

It’s also the only thing wrong that I’ve found. Accuracy so far of this movement has been nothing short of incredible. So I guess I have to pick and choose my battles for now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bbdo

Watch is officially on it's way back. here is the actual timeline. As I sent it toward the holiday period, their date shows January. I will not disagree given the shut downs. So there it is, 4 months in total.


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## GmtMasterIII

bbdo said:


> Watch is officially on it's way back. here is the actual timeline. As I sent it toward the holiday period, their date shows January. I will not disagree given the shut downs. So there it is, 4 months in total.
> 
> View attachment 16543100


Nice! I am interested to see how the watch performs when you have it back.


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## bbdo

OK, got the watch back! So they said it was repaired, not enough time with it to verify, but will report back. 

What is truly odd is this watch seems to be 100% brand new. The bracelet is sized as it was, but there is not a single scratch of any type, anywhere. It was wrapped in plastic and is utterly as new. That is not how it went in, having worn it daily, including resting the bracelet on a desk and macbook.. so whats up with that? The notes say it was repaired, but not polished (clearly not polished, this is as-new).. so hmm. 

Serial number on the back cover is the original. 

I had marred a couple screw holes slightly when I learned how to size it, the hard way.. and those are not there.

I am so confused. But its back!


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## bbdo

OK now I see, they did polish it, per the service docs they included. No big deal for me.. Now I just need to wear it, instead of my cheap dive watch I have become so accustomed to..


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## FishingForFishies

bbdo said:


> OK now I see, they did polish it, per the service docs they included. No big deal for me.. Now I just need to wear it, instead of my cheap dive watch I have become so accustomed to..


Glad you got it back and hopefully it’s in full working order. Good to know when I eventually decide to send mine in, I’ll just have to be very patient


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## GmtMasterIII

bbdo said:


> OK, got the watch back! So they said it was repaired, not enough time with it to verify, but will report back.
> 
> What is truly odd is this watch seems to be 100% brand new. The bracelet is sized as it was, but there is not a single scratch of any type, anywhere. It was wrapped in plastic and is utterly as new. That is not how it went in, having worn it daily, including resting the bracelet on a desk and macbook.. so whats up with that? The notes say it was repaired, but not polished (clearly not polished, this is as-new).. so hmm.
> 
> Serial number on the back cover is the original.
> 
> I had marred a couple screw holes slightly when I learned how to size it, the hard way.. and those are not there.
> 
> I am so confused. But its back!


Very good! Keep us posted on the chrono issue. 

On a side note, after seeing my sub hand go to the 30-second mark and having to reset it for a few days straight, the issue has stopped, and - at least for now - it has been in the correct position for a while. 

I guess it's to be expected with a new movement. After all, we didn't buy a $350k Patek 10th of second 5hz chronograph, we bought a Zenith! 🤣


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## Hartmut Richter

GmtMasterIII said:


> I guess it's to be expected with a new movement. After all, we didn't buy a $350k Patek 10th of second 5hz chronograph, we bought a Zenith! 🤣


If Zenith think that, it means that they don't even aspire to ever be in the Patek league.  Which is OK price wise - but not quality wise! And if *you* think that, then it means that you are prepared to let them get away with it!!! 

Hartmut Richter


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## WTSP

You don’t need to buy a six figure Patek to have a chronograph that functions properly. In fact, I’d expect the Patek to potentially display some awkward functional quirks as well. These lower volume exotic pieces are minefields. Robustness, accuracy and reliability are often considered to be beneath purview the high end brands.


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## super_purple

bbdo said:


> OK now I see, they did polish it, per the service docs they included. No big deal for me.. Now I just need to wear it, instead of my cheap dive watch I have become so accustomed to..


I suppose you didn't ask for it to be polished. That might upset some owners who just want the problem fixed and nothing else messed with.


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## jvast

Ive had the CMS for around 3 weeks now, I have also witnessed this sub dial minute drifting issue as explained here, mines not gone past 1 minute though from what I have seen. Although, ironically I have not seen it happen now for like 2 weeks. But one thing I have noticed is the date wheel alignment. It changes at 12:02 (should really be 12:00) and it does not centre in the display. I've experienced this and can replicate it. If i manually move the hands, the DW is fine and correctly aligns, same for when i use the quick set. But when the movement is running it doesn't seem to correctly set the date in the centre when it triggers it.

Not good, sending it to dealer tomorrow. Im in the UK.


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## Hartmut Richter

Well, the date change at 2 minutes off midnight isn't really anything to worry about - it is rather difficult aligning it absolutely exactly. The offset date display is a little more cause for concern, though.....

Hartmut Richter


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## jvast

Hartmut Richter said:


> Well, the date change at 2 minutes off midnight isn't really anything to worry about - it is rather difficult aligning it absolutely exactly. The offset date display is a little more cause for concern, though.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


 Yes, Im not too fussed about the 2 minutes off. Just the date offset issue. Its being sent off today back to dealer so will update when i get more info.


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## GmtMasterIII

jvast said:


> Yes, Im not too fussed about the 2 minutes off. Just the date offset issue. Its being sent off today back to dealer so will update when i get more info.


Yes, the 2 minutes off is nothing. I am never awake to even see the date change. As long as it's correct, I really don't care. 

But the date being off-centered would drive me nuts. I believe that there was a youtuber who did a review early on and also found the date wheel to be slightly off-center but chalked it up to it being a review unit. 

It's too bad Zenith is experiencing these movement issues. The watch really is great. I'd hate to have to part with it for servicing.


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## FirstF80InSpace

So I’ve been watching the minute register drag issue on mine. It seems to happen most when the watch either has very little power left or when it’s fully wound. Anything else in the middle, the minute register doesn’t drag forward. Weird, but whatever. Not enough of an issue for me to lose the watch for 4 months.


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## GmtMasterIII

bbdo said:


> OK, got the watch back! So they said it was repaired, not enough time with it to verify, but will report back.
> 
> What is truly odd is this watch seems to be 100% brand new. The bracelet is sized as it was, but there is not a single scratch of any type, anywhere. It was wrapped in plastic and is utterly as new. That is not how it went in, having worn it daily, including resting the bracelet on a desk and macbook.. so whats up with that? The notes say it was repaired, but not polished (clearly not polished, this is as-new).. so hmm.
> 
> Serial number on the back cover is the original.
> 
> I had marred a couple screw holes slightly when I learned how to size it, the hard way.. and those are not there.
> 
> I am so confused. But its back!


Hey OP ... What are the resutls? Any updates? Curious to see how things are running.


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## bbdo

GmtMasterIII said:


> Hey OP ... What are the resutls? Any updates? Curious to see how things are running.


i have not worn it since i got it. sitting in the box. hard to explain why, other than it is time to move it on..


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## Jmin81

Zenith Chronomaster sport panda. Just got notification that my watch is being returned to me from zenith for the exact same repair issue. Took about 1 month and a week. Not bad turn around time. Can't wait to get it back. The invoice states they did a full service and replaced parts that may be needed but did not get into specific parts. Excited to get my watch back!


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## Snowstrm

Jmin81 said:


> Zenith Chronomaster sport panda. Just got notification that my watch is being returned to me from zenith for the exact same repair issue. Took about 1 month and a week. Not bad turn around time. Can't wait to get it back. The invoice states they did a full service and replaced parts that may be needed but did not get into specific parts. Excited to get my watch back!


That’s great news, thank you for letting us know! Hopefully I will get mine back soon as well, really looking forward to wear it again. Took mine to my AD 1.5 months ago and it took them a little bit more than a week to send it to Zenith.


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## WTSP

bbdo said:


> i have not worn it since i got it. sitting in the box. hard to explain why, other than it is time to move it on..


Is it something to do with your emotions toward the watch being turned negative by your experience with servicing and reliability?


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## GmtMasterIII

Jmin81 said:


> Zenith Chronomaster sport panda. Just got notification that my watch is being returned to me from zenith for the exact same repair issue. Took about 1 month and a week. Not bad turn around time. Can't wait to get it back. The invoice states they did a full service and replaced parts that may be needed but did not get into specific parts. Excited to get my watch back!


Keep us posted. Really curious to see if it's fixed. Also a month and a week is really a good turnaround time.


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## Jmin81

Snowstrm said:


> That’s great news, thank you for letting us know! Hopefully I will get mine back soon as well, really looking forward to wear it again. Took mine to my AD 1.5 months ago and it took them a little bit more than a week to send it to Zenith.


Update: Just got my watch back from zenith warranty repair for the 6'o clock minute moving to the 2 or 3 minute without chrono being activated. Have been wearing this watch for about a day now and the minute sub dial hand has already moved to 1. It's not as bad as previous but it still moved to 1. Not happy. Gonna wear my watch for a bit before sending it back to zenith. Still like the watch and not planning on getting the daytona so this is still a great alternative. But zenith did not fix the issue with the service. Will be returning soon. Hopefully they will just replace my movement next time. I would be ok with that. Well see if the minute hand moves to 2 or 3. Will keep you posted.


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## GmtMasterIII

Jmin81 said:


> Update: Just got my watch back from zenith warranty repair for the 6'o clock minute moving to the 2 or 3 minute without chrono being activated. Have been wearing this watch for about a day now and the minute sub dial hand has already moved to 1. It's not as bad as previous but it still moved to 1. Not happy. Gonna wear my watch for a bit before sending it back to zenith. Still like the watch and not planning on getting the daytona so this is still a great alternative. But zenith did not fix the issue with the service. Will be returning soon. Hopefully they will just replace my movement next time. I would be ok with that. Well see if the minute hand moves to 2 or 3. Will keep you posted.


Ugh, this is exactly what I was concerned about and wanted to wait and see others experiences. 

That really stinks. Seems like Zenith maybe still doesn't understand what the issue is.


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## OliverDakota

Another Zenith Chronomaster Original owner here experiencing the same issue after only 3 months of ownership (chrono minutes hand just drifts to the 3 min mark after a couple minutes after resetting). Disappointing. I'm going to bring it back to my AD to get serviced as well.


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## Elton Balch

Elton Balch said:


> This watch was on my want list until reading about these issues. I’m passing until I hear more positive feedback.


So, I see from the latest posts that there continue to be issues. I really like the watch but I’ve completely crossed it off my list. I recently purchased two H. Moser&Cie watches (Heritage Center Seconds and Mad Red) so my watch budget is depleted for the foreseeable future anyway. Best wishes to those experiencing issues and i hope they are resolved…


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## EnderW

Damn. Sorry yall.
It definitely seems that cal 3600 may still be in beta testing stages while sold.
The track record and proven reliability of Cal 400 is what attracted me to get EP Original 1969 reissue awhile back. Will hold off on any new caliber Zenith watches until they have their act together.


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## JC316

No manufacturer is without issue. You have to remember, the people who frequent these forums are enthusiasts and people who have had bad experiences. I would say the overwhelming majority enjoy their watches with no issues. 

Your money, do with it as you wish. Just thought it was important to share so that others who happen upon this post don't think that the issue lies with all of their watches in this model line.


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## GmtMasterIII

OliverDakota said:


> Another Zenith Chronomaster Original owner here experiencing the same issue after only 3 months of ownership (chrono minutes hand just drifts to the 3 min mark after a couple minutes after resetting). Disappointing. I'm going to bring it back to my AD to get serviced as well.


You may want to rethink a service just now. It’s being reported after servicing the issue still exists. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EnderW

JC316 said:


> No manufacturer is without issue. You have to remember, the people who frequent these forums are enthusiasts and people who have had bad experiences. I would say the overwhelming majority enjoy their watches with no issues.
> 
> Your money, do with it as you wish. Just thought it was important to share so that others who happen upon this post don't think that the issue lies with all of their watches in this model line.


Valid point. But cal3600 is relatively new and there is no way Zenith has sold too many of these watches. So the number of owners experiencing various issues is statistically significant.
I also never saw complaints about functionality on the cal 400. Although service issues have always existed with all brands.


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## WTSP

JC316 said:


> No manufacturer is without issue. You have to remember, the people who frequent these forums are enthusiasts and people who have had bad experiences. I would say the overwhelming majority enjoy their watches with no issues.
> 
> Your money, do with it as you wish. Just thought it was important to share so that others who happen upon this post don't think that the issue lies with all of their watches in this model line.


It’s probably not possible to infer from the description of issues posted here that the caliber 3600 is definitely a defective product. We can’t know what proportion of these movements and of the watches that are based on them have defects.

However, I also don’t think it’s possible at this stage to just dismiss the testimonials in this thread as simply being a reflection of natural defect rates that would be expected to be found in any type of movement or model series.

You might find this thread interesting if you haven’t read through it already. I think the way that Zenith treated the Defy Lab might have implications for other movements and types of watches.








Defy Inventor No Longer Available?


I was just on the US website and when I went to look up the Defy Inventor it was gone from the Defy lineup. Anyone have information as to what happened? It looks like its no longer for sale.




www.watchuseek.com


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## GmtMasterIII

So whenever I am on Instagram I always look at others CMS and see if the minute hand is off. Quite often I see it and wonder if they even notice it. 

Today I saw a post and the chronograph was definitely not running. These 2 photos show the minute hand at 20 minutes then later at closer to 30. Photos are attached and again -aren’t mine. But this is kinda illustrating that it may be a wider spread issue. 

Could the person be running the Chrono? Maybe? But it would be awful good luck to get the center second hand and 60 second register to line up at the top on stopping the chronograph. 




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OliverDakota

GmtMasterIII said:


> You may want to rethink a service just now. It’s being reported after servicing the issue still exists.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, I was resetting it a few times in succession and holding the reset button in for a few seconds. It now just moves to the 30 second to 1 minute mark and stays there. Good point about perhaps waiting as I still have multiple years under warranty


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## palletwheel

WTSP said:


> It’s probably not possible to infer from the description of issues posted here that the caliber 3600 is definitely a defective product. We can’t know what proportion of these movements and of the watches that are based on them have defects.
> 
> However, I also don’t think it’s possible at this stage to just dismiss the testimonials in this thread as simply being a reflection of natural defect rates that would be expected to be found in any type of movement or model series.
> 
> You might find this thread interesting if you haven’t read through it already. I think the way that Zenith treated the Defy Lab might have implications for other movements and types of watches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defy Inventor No Longer Available?
> 
> 
> I was just on the US website and when I went to look up the Defy Inventor it was gone from the Defy lineup. Anyone have information as to what happened? It looks like its no longer for sale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com


Sadly a bunch of us here on the forum looked at this release a bit leery after that mess. Even worse to see we were right. Again, this is an industry wide problem, so as a rule anyway I stay away from new movements for several years until its clear the bugs have been worked out. This industry treats its customers so poorly. But even worse we seem to allow them to get away with it. I can't believe the amount of "blame the victim" vitriol I see sometimes in various forums when someone posts a problem, or similarly the contorted rationalizations justifying living with said problems. No one for any reason should accept this kind of failure and I'm glad to see the spirit of cooperation here.


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## OliverDakota

For what it’s worth, Zenith customer service states that they have “new parts” to fix this issue and to send it in. I’ll prob wait a bit


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## WTSP

The issue may be related to the approach they took to mitigate the jumping effect and potential for the movement locking up once the chronograph starts. Apparently the chronograph clutch arm now meshes with the main gear train in a much lighter, more gentle manner, which prevents the sudden pressure between gears from causing the jump in the seconds hand typical of the caliber 400 or older manual wind chronos. Also, as stated on Hodinkee “a lot of the mitigation comes from customization of the driving and coupling wheels, each of which has a unique profile for the gear teeth.”

The lesser force on the stop and reset mechanism might be responsible for the chrono not staying in place once stopped. Apparently Zenith has worked out how to address this and it will not be an issue going forward.


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## GmtMasterIII

OliverDakota said:


> For what it’s worth, Zenith customer service states that they have “new parts” to fix this issue and to send it in. I’ll prob wait a bit


Did you hear this recently from Zenith customer service? Just curious. I guess if so, they're admitting there is an issue.


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## GmtMasterIII

WTSP said:


> The issue may be related to the approach they took to mitigate the jumping effect and potential for the movement locking up once the chronograph starts. Apparently the chronograph clutch arm now meshes with the main gear train in a much lighter, more gentle manner, which prevents the sudden pressure between gears from causing the jump in the seconds hand typical of the caliber 400 or older manual wind chronos. Also, as stated on Hodinkee “a lot of the mitigation comes from customization of the driving and coupling wheels, each of which has a unique profile for the gear teeth.”
> 
> The lesser force on the stop and reset mechanism might be responsible for the chrono not staying in place once stopped. Apparently Zenith has worked out how to address this and it will not be an issue going forward.


I was thinking something similar. In a typical chronograph, the minute hand snaps to the next minute as the center seconds move toward 60. On the 3600, the minute hand is a sweep hand. So I'm wondering if that could have something to do with it.


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## FishingForFishies

GmtMasterIII said:


> Did you hear this recently from Zenith customer service? Just curious. I guess if so, they're admitting there is an issue.


Zenith rep to my AD quickly admitted there was an issue with my bracelet and others. With all the talk of this issue, doesn’t seem in their interest to take a “deny deny deny” approach. Companies certainly are wont to doing that though. 

Would also love to know where precisely this information came from. I don’t plan to send mine for repair until at least next year.


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## OliverDakota

GmtMasterIII said:


> Did you hear this recently from Zenith customer service? Just curious. I guess if so, they're admitting there is an issue.


Yes from Zenith customer service


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## carlsongolf12

I have seen a lot of posts both good and bad regarding Zenith Servicing, but i thought i would share my personal experience with them. In April i sent my Chronomaster Sport back for work because the the chronograph was not functioning correctly. When i activated the 1/10th of a second hand and pushed the pusher to stop the timing, i could not reactivate the chronograph. It seemed the chronograph was jammed. This error happened i would say 10 % of the time. I would have to jiggle the watch a bit in order for it to become unjammed and reset the chronograph. My watch delivered to LVMH on april 6, and shortly thereafter i was informed that the watch was having a problem and they would make the necessary repairs. They also stated they would clean the bracelet components and do some surface refreshing, not unlike a previous poster on this thread who received their watch back fully polished.

Well, today i received my watch, and it seems to me that they did not do a single thing to my watch. Despite saying they cleaned and rebuilt the movement and exchanged the necessary parts, my watch has returned to me with the exact same malfunctions still present. Sometimes i cannot activate or reactivate the chrono, some times i cannot reset it. There is absolutely no sign of polishing, and the clasp still had dust in spots. Very clearly it was not cleaned in any way. When i called Zenith they confirmed to me that they are in fact using a new part in repairs to the Chronograph but stated mine did not receive the new repair. To their defense, they were very apologetic that the watch was still not functioning properly and have assured me that my watch will be prioritized once it arrives back at the service center.

I am definitely excited to get the watch back, but so far im underwhelmed by the New Jersey LVMH service center. I would expect a little more from a company of their reputation.


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## GmtMasterIII

carlsongolf12 said:


> I have seen a lot of posts both good and bad regarding Zenith Servicing, but i thought i would share my personal experience with them. In April i sent my Chronomaster Sport back for work because the the chronograph was not functioning correctly. When i activated the 1/10th of a second hand and pushed the pusher to stop the timing, i could not reactivate the chronograph. It seemed the chronograph was jammed. This error happened i would say 10 % of the time. I would have to jiggle the watch a bit in order for it to become unjammed and reset the chronograph. My watch delivered to LVMH on april 6, and shortly thereafter i was informed that the watch was having a problem and they would make the necessary repairs. They also stated they would clean the bracelet components and do some surface refreshing, not unlike a previous poster on this thread who received their watch back fully polished.
> 
> Well, today i received my watch, and it seems to me that they did not do a single thing to my watch. Despite saying they cleaned and rebuilt the movement and exchanged the necessary parts, my watch has returned to me with the exact same malfunctions still present. Sometimes i cannot activate or reactivate the chrono, some times i cannot reset it. There is absolutely no sign of polishing, and the clasp still had dust in spots. Very clearly it was not cleaned in any way. When i called Zenith they confirmed to me that they are in fact using a new part in repairs to the Chronograph but stated mine did not receive the new repair. To their defense, they were very apologetic that the watch was still not functioning properly and have assured me that my watch will be prioritized once it arrives back at the service center.
> 
> I am definitely excited to get the watch back, but so far im underwhelmed by the New Jersey LVMH service center. I would expect a little more from a company of their reputation.


Yikes ... That seems like a total ball drop on their part. Almost like they scheduled work to be done on the watch, it never got done, and somewhere along the line they marked that it had. Very disappointing.


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## Snowstrm

Got my Chronomaster Sport back from the AD after it spend ~10 weeks in warranty service due to the dragging issue of the chrono minute counter. So far can’t see any dragging and really happy to get the beauty back!

Only document that came from the factory together with the watch was an explanation of a normal maintenance and checks performed. So no explanation of any replaced parts or corrective actions performed due to this particular issue. 

Hopefully the issue is now fixed but I will keep monitoring and report back. According to the AD this was the first 3600 movement Zenith they have seen with this issue.


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## GmtMasterIII

Snowstrm said:


> Got my Chronomaster Sport back from the AD after it spend ~10 weeks in warranty service due to the dragging issue of the chrono minute counter. So far can’t see any dragging and really happy to get the beauty back!
> 
> Only document that came from the factory together with the watch was an explanation of a normal maintenance and checks performed. So no explanation of any replaced parts or corrective actions performed due to this particular issue.
> 
> Hopefully the issue is now fixed but I will keep monitoring and report back. According to the AD this was the first 3600 movement Zenith they have seen with this issue.


That’s great to hear! Keep an eye on things and check back with us! I’d love to hear this is resolved. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dberg

Love the watch and considering purchasing, but this gives me pause. Can’t get a handle on whether Zenith has corrected these issues on newer production units. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## neetapatel2

Did everyone get their watches back from Zenith and are they now working as expected?


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## Snowstrm

neetapatel2 said:


> Did everyone get their watches back from Zenith and are they now working as expected?


Mine has been working without any problems since early June when it returned from the warranty service. So it looks like Zenith has been able to fix the issue.


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## ctw19

Assuming they've sorted out the issues on new ones coming out of the factory now, is there any way of knowing approximately when that happened? I've got a Chronomaster Original on my short list for next watch and wondering if I should look for one dated after some estimated range when they fixed the chrono problems.


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## bbdo

As the OP, my watch has been perfect since I got it back. I will attribute the delay to them manufacturing the fixed component.


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## szatoshi

Great news! Not so much for my wallet tho 😅


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## Slicedbread

Hi guys I just wanted to share my experience.

I bought my black dial CMS in Nov 2021 brand new from the AD, and by December I had noticed the loose hand at the 6 o'clock sub-dial. I took it back to my AD who sent it in for repairs and it took 2 months for me to get it back (~feb 2022).

The issue recurred a few weeks after receiving it again and I took it to the Zenith service centre myself in August. It took 2 months again and they said they needed to specifically order parts from HQ. 

When I got it back in October they told me they had gotten "new parts" and hopefully it should fix the issue. The lady at the counter also admitted to me that quite a few customers with this watch had this issue as well and mine wasn't an isolated problem.

I had completely lost faith in the watch and sold it recently, as I didn't want to risk owning it and having the warranty expire.


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## JC316

Slicedbread said:


> Hi guys I just wanted to share my experience.
> 
> I bought my black dial CMS in Nov 2021 brand new from the AD, and by December I had noticed the loose hand at the 6 o'clock sub-dial. I took it back to my AD who sent it in for repairs and it took 2 months for me to get it back (~feb 2022).
> 
> The issue recurred a few weeks after receiving it again and I took it to the Zenith service centre myself in August. It took 2 months again and they said they needed to specifically order parts from HQ.
> 
> When I got it back in October they told me they had gotten "new parts" and hopefully it should fix the issue. The lady at the counter also admitted to me that quite a few customers with this watch had this issue as well and mine wasn't an isolated problem.
> 
> I had completely lost faith in the watch and sold it recently, as I didn't want to risk owning it and having the warranty expire.


Just curious, you wear the watch all the time or did you require a manual wind from time to time?


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## Slicedbread

JC316 said:


> Just curious, you wear the watch all the time or did you require a manual wind from time to time?


I wore it in rotation, but it was kept in a watch winder, so for the majority of time it was kept a full wind I guess.


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## JC316

Slicedbread said:


> I wore it in rotation, but it was kept in a watch winder, so for the majority of time it was kept a full wind I guess.


So issue presented itself from normal wear and while on winder. You never winded it by hand during this time?


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## Slicedbread

JC316 said:


> So issue presented itself from normal wear and while on winder. You never winded it by hand during this time?


yeah pretty much
when I wasn't wearing it it was in the winder so the spring was fully wound. And when I wear it it's under normal usage and I didn't ever had to wind it manually.

I couldn't really delineate when the 6 o'clock sub-dial would come loose, in my eyes I happened randomly. It didn't have much correlation to chronograph activation, because I didn't use it often but would often notice the loose hand when checking the time. It would always reset correctly when I pressed the reset button though.


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## korvics

Chronomaster Sport here. Having the minute hand drag issue. Purchased the watch this summer from an AD in Europe but I live in the US. Any advice on how to proceed with warranty service? Who should I contact?


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## carlsongolf12

korvics said:


> Chronomaster Sport here. Having the minute hand drag issue. Purchased the watch this summer from an AD in Europe but I live in the US. Any advice on how to proceed with warranty service? Who should I contact?


Call zenith directly and they will send you an a label to ship it back to them for repair. The watch will be insured when shipped this way. The watch will go to the repair center in New Jersey. I would suggest you take thorough photos of your watches’ condition before you send it as they caused damage to mine while in the shop. They ultimately fixed it for free but it was a bit of a fight and more time added to the repair. Good luck!


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## korvics

carlsongolf12 said:


> Call zenith directly and they will send you an a label to ship it back to them for repair. The watch will be insured when shipped this way. The watch will go to the repair center in New Jersey. I would suggest you take thorough photos of your watches’ condition before you send it as they caused damage to mine while in the shop. They ultimately fixed it for free but it was a bit of a fight and more time added to the repair. Good luck!


Thank you! I appreciate your response. I will update this thread with my outcome.


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## Teampatta

I’m in the same boat. Purchased chronomaster OG in may. Was fine until the same subdial started creeping. Now it creeps all the way to 30 mins! Ridiculous for a piece this expensive. So now, do I send in and wait 3 months or wait until my warranty is almost up and send it in in case there are other issues in a year or two. Such a shame, or do I sell for a little loss and move on. JLCs looking reallll nice…


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## Slicedbread

Teampatta said:


> I’m in the same boat. Purchased chronomaster OG in may. Was fine until the same subdial started creeping. Now it creeps all the way to 30 mins! Ridiculous for a piece this expensive. So now, do I send in and wait 3 months or wait until my warranty is almost up and send it in in case there are other issues in a year or two. Such a shame, or do I sell for a little loss and move on. JLCs looking reallll nice…


Mine failed twice in a year, and each time it took more than 2 months to fix. I eventually sold it as I didn’t want to risk owning it without warranty.


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## OliverDakota

Slicedbread said:


> Mine failed twice in a year, and each time it took more than 2 months to fix. I eventually sold it as I didn’t want to risk owning it without warranty.


Yikes. Can I ask approximately what months this year you took it in for repairs? I bought mine at the beginning of the year and have the dragging 6 sundial issue but was waiting a year until sending it so that I would have more comfort that they knew how to fix it


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## Slicedbread

I first sent it in a line December last year, got it back feb 2022. Within weeks the sundial at 6 o’clock became loose again.

I waited until august to take it in again, getting it back in October. I didn’t hold onto it for long this second time and resold it. The lady at the customer service center said they had new parts to fix the problem but I don’t know how true that is now?


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## mediasapiens

And this not quite Daytona imitation watch cost 10K? The one in the pictures, the unremarkable, round chronograph with 7750 dial layout? 10K and it is often broken? Just checking.


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## Teampatta

mediasapiens said:


> And this not quite Daytona imitation watch cost 10K? The one in the pictures, the unremarkable, round chronograph with 7750 dial layout? 10K and it is often broken? Just checking.


Yeah that is the one. Lol.


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## WTSP

It’s a 7753 dial layout, which itself was made to recreate the layout of the El Primero and various other vintage chronographs. I get the rest of your point though.

I literally went into the Zenith factory this year and raised the question to one of their engineers, who said they were aware of the problem, had a fix and that buys should feel confident in buying the Chronomaster Sport. I guess they still have issues.


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## OliverDakota

Slicedbread said:


> I first sent it in a line December last year, got it back feb 2022. Within weeks the sundial at 6 o’clock became loose again.
> 
> I waited until august to take it in again, getting it back in October. I didn’t hold onto it for long this second time and resold it. The lady at the customer service center said they had new parts to fix the problem but I don’t know how true that is now?


Thanks that’s helpful. Yeah I heard from customer service that they had new parts and knew how to fix it now (I believe around June).


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## Teampatta

Slicedbread said:


> I first sent it in a line December last year, got it back feb 2022. Within weeks the sundial at 6 o’clock became loose again.
> 
> I waited until august to take it in again, getting it back in October. I didn’t hold onto it for long this second time and resold it. The lady at the customer service center said they had new parts to fix the problem but I don’t know how true that is now?


Can I ask, did it display any issues after receiving the second time? Or by chance did whomever you sold it to say it was having the issue? Someone below said they have a fix as of June. If they can fix it I’ll keep it but I don’t really want a money pit luxury watch. Thanks


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## Slicedbread

Teampatta said:


> Can I ask, did it display any issues after receiving the second time? Or by chance did whomever you sold it to say it was having the issue? Someone below said they have a fix as of June. If they can fix it I’ll keep it but I don’t really want a money pit luxury watch. Thanks


I don’t know about the next owner, as I traded it in to a store for another watch.

I only had it a short while, around a week or two, after getting it back from LVMH repair center before I traded it in. In those two weeks the problem hadn’t recurred.


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## carlsongolf12

Teampatta said:


> Can I ask, did it display any issues after receiving the second time? Or by chance did whomever you sold it to say it was having the issue? Someone below said they have a fix as of June. If they can fix it I’ll keep it but I don’t really want a money pit luxury watch. Thanks


Mine was definitely fixed. The chronograph has functioned flawlessly since it returned and they extended my warranty to five years once they completed servicing it. Very happy with the end result.


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## vincent95120

Hello, I am French and I bought the watch in May 2022. The same problem appeared at the beginning of November. I dropped off the watch at my zenith distributor for service on November and I haven't heard back. I'm waiting for news.


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## vincent95120

it's the same problem. I will let you know as soon as I have information.


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## OliverDakota

vincent95120 said:


> it's the same problem. I will let you know as soon as I have information.


Just by triangulating people’s timing of purchase and attempted repairs on here, it seems Zenith figured out the fix sometime during the June/July period of 2022. Fingers crossed


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## vincent95120

OliverDakota said:


> Just by triangulating people’s timing of purchase and attempted repairs on here, it seems Zenith figured out the fix sometime during the June/July period of 2022. Fingers crossed


Fingers crossed


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## Bulldozer

OliverDakota said:


> Just by triangulating people’s timing of purchase and attempted repairs on here, it seems Zenith figured out the fix sometime during the June/July period of 2022. Fingers crossed


I'm still holding off on my purchase of the CMS. If this is true, I will be making the purchase in 2023! Fingers crossed indeed!


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