# Sticky  Project GMT: Design thread



## BigHaole

Yao said:


> After much delay the final answer regarding the name is: "Key West - GMT"


Maybe we can have a Cigar colored "Havana - GMT" as the general availability version of the white-faced "Key West - GMT", like the Nassau followed the Kingston?


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## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Yao said:


> After much delay the final answer regarding the name is: "Key West - GMT"
> 
> I hope to start mocking up the two dial and hand choices next week. Basically we need to decide:
> 
> * Small GMT hand or big GMT Hand (i.e. similar to what Rolex uses now)
> * Whether the hour markers are the dial are just like the Kingston or if we should move them closer to the center of the dial as on some early GMTs. I believe this was done so that the Arrow tip of the GMT hand would not fall on-top of the hour markers and get lost at night.


Great news, Bill! I'm in favor of keeping it as close as possible to the original. So my preference would be for a small GMT hand, and the hour markers positioned as you described. Here's a good picture of what I'm referring to.

Thanks for the update!


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## cpotters

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Ok. One foot in front of the other. I'd want the dial to look as close to the original or, more specifically - as different from the current Rollie GMT - as possible.


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## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



BigHaole said:


> Maybe we can have a Cigar colored "Havana - GMT" as the general availability version of the white-faced "Key West - GMT", like the Nassau followed the Kingston?


I like this suggestion, because one name represents the origin of the first Pan Am flight and the other represents the destination of the first Pan Am flight. It's like having a choice between sunrise and sunset. I'd choose both.

Cheers,
Packleader


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## 66Cooper

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I love it!!! Key West, my Kingston is waiting patiently for your arrival.

On the configs. All the small details that may seem insignificant to the normal wearer (that does not apply to anyone here, haha) are what make the 6542 so amazing.
Small GMT hand
Roulette date wheel
Lume bezel (i know thats not happening)
No crown guard
Bezel teeth design

These are the things that really set these apart from what just about every other GMT made looks like in one way or another....and I LOVE IT!!!

From my research, it looks like the triangle extended past the minute ring, where the base of the triangle is almost level with the minute marks and the tip extends past the minute ring.









This isnt exactly right as you dont see the edge of the minute ring. Look at the Kingston. There is a space between the case opening and the minute ring. The tip of the triangle would float there. As its not pointing to anything on the dial but the bezel instead. Kinda clever really. Have the point leave the "live dial area" so that you dont confuse that hand with what is going on on the dial. Well, I might have just confused everyone with that. Haha, sorry

More like this:









Bill, if you need any help with the design of the dial/hands, I already have a pretty good start.


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## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



cpotters said:


> Ok. One foot in front of the other. I'd want the dial to look as close to the original or, more specifically - as different from the current Rollie GMT - as possible.


Charlie,
I'm 100% in agreement with you. I already have a 16750, so adding another one to the stable that looks the same would not make much sense. I believe that following closely to the 6542 is in keeping with what this project started out to be. Small GMT hand, chapter ring, Black/gilt, White/Black, Roulette date wheel, no crown guards. I would love to see a pepsi insert made of Sapphire or Lexan with lume numbers, but I'm afraid that isn't going to be and option.There are lots of GMT's out there that look like the modern Rolex GMT, lets not make another one!


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## Yao

This thread is for posting comments to the mock-ups and general design elements of the Project GMT. The name thread will be moved to the Archive.


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## Yao

BigHaole said:


> Maybe we can have a Cigar colored "Havana - GMT" as the general availability version of the white-faced "Key West - GMT", like the Nassau followed the Kingston?


We can address this issue after the design is done. To be honest though I think there may be enough demand for the watch with the black and white options that a brown dial may be moot.


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## Yao

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



66Cooper said:


> More like this:


I hope I understood your gist of the dial design. But the lower picture is exactly what I mean. the hour markers are set closer to the center of the dial than the 6538 or even the later version.


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## Watchamacallit

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Yao said:


> &#8230; the hour markers are set closer to the center of the dial than the 6538 or even the later version.


Excellent. Now that that's settled,  do we also agree on a proud sapphire?


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## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

66Cooper's pic of the watch is the perfect configuration for me. Nothing more, nothing less. Must add that -imho- a 'roulette wheel' needs a cyclops as well! Those two go together as peas and carrots (is it a proper saying or just a Forrest Gump phrase?).

About a proud sapphire: does it go well with the cyclop? Are there pics of that combination?

Menno


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## Watchamacallit

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Thieuster said:


> About a proud sapphire: does it go well with the cyclop?


Menno, IIRC a cyclops wasn't going to be an option. Aside from that, it would only be possible on a flat sapphire, not a domed one. Whether the saphhire is proud - i.e. elevated at the side - or not shouldn't have anything to do with it.

I could be totally wrong, of course.


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## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Watchamacallit said:


> Menno, IIRC a cyclops wasn't going to be an option. Aside from that, it would only be possible on a flat sapphire, not a domed one. Whether the saphhire is proud - i.e. elevated at the side - or not shouldn't have anything to do with it.
> 
> I could be totally wrong, of course.


Yeah you're right about the non-cyclops part of the design. I forgot about that - must be the great combination of the red date and cyclops combined ;-)

Menno


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## Packleader

Anything goes in a design thread, right? All ideas on the table.

I'd love something like this:









I've posted this picture before. It's an ultra rare version of the Rolex GMT.

The watch was 38mm, with 18k yellow gold, a white dial and a brown acrylic bezel. It was manufactured in 1958 and sold in Italy.

Cheers,
Packleader


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## Thieuster

Packleader said:


> Anything goes in a design thread, right? All ideas on the table.
> 
> I'd love something like this:
> 
> I've posted this picture before. It's an ultra rare version of the Rolex GMT.
> 
> The watch was 38mm, with 18k yellow gold, a white dial and a brown acrylic bezel. It was manufactured in 1958 and sold in Italy.
> 
> Cheers,
> Packleader


My b'year watch, but that's about it, tbh. But you're right: anything goes, design wise at this stage.

Menno


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## enkidu

I know it's crazy, but I'd love to get a factory roulette destro version. As a backup I could swap in one of my destro 28xx date dials, but getting destro from the factory would be sweet.


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## cpotters

Thieuster said:


> My b'year watch, but that's about it, tbh. But you're right: anything goes, design wise at this stage.
> 
> Menno


Menno:

We buy the same watches - including the TR-1000, like the same kinds of cars, and now I find out we're born in the same year. Lt me know when this starts getting a little creepy.... 

And yes, anthing goes. BTW, while I wasn't originally on board with this, the idea of a chocolate brown tropical dial with gilt lettering is - admittedly - intriguing.


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## Reintitan

My take on this:

Case: Same case as Kingston/Nassau (already decided)
Crown: Should be smaller than the 8mm/7mm crowns used on the Kingston/Nassau, perhaps 4mm - 5mm diameter?
Dial color: Glossy black dial with Gilt (gold) lettering
Dial colors: Black and maybe silver (white) as option
Dial detail: I prefer a chapter ring for the minutes, but even without a chapter ring as Bill noticed, the hour plots are moved closer to the center of the dial to accommodate the head of the 24 hour hand
24 hour hand: Small arrow head (all non-crown guard GMT-Masters -- 6452 and early 1675 non crown guards -- had the mini 24 hour hand)
Bezel Insert: sapphire insert ok, but aluminum insert ok as well
Bezel Insert colors: Pepsi for sure; All blue insert would be awesome


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## aviate

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Watchamacallit said:


> Menno, IIRC a cyclops wasn't going to be an option. Aside from that, it would only be possible on a flat sapphire, not a domed one. Whether the saphhire is proud - i.e. elevated at the side - or not shouldn't have anything to do with it.
> 
> I could be totally wrong, of course.


Love the earlier pictures posted by 66cooper and now understand the original point about the marker location.

Regarding the cyclops, I don't recall it having been taken off the table...aren't there quite a few people involved that feel the cyclops is intrinsic to the design?

Thanks


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## kkmark

Not sure if the sapphire bezel insert is an option but this would really make it great.

Small GMT hand, roulette date wheel, hour plots closer to the center, yes to cyclops if possible. 

Was thinking black dial but maybe a white dial would look great.


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## eganwh

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

+ 1 on:
Small GMT hand
Roulette date wheel
No crown guard

I did not realize the hour marker location issue. Wow! ` This would be a great way to distinguish the Key West GMT. Thanks, 66Cooper, for pointing it out.


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## Thieuster

Reintitan said:


> My take on this:
> 
> Case: Same case as Kingston/Nassau (already decided)
> Crown: Should be smaller than the 8mm/7mm crowns used on the Kingston/Nassau, perhaps 4mm - 5mm diameter?
> Dial color: Glossy black dial with Gilt (gold) lettering
> Dial colors: Black and maybe silver (white) as option
> Dial detail: I prefer a chapter ring for the minutes, but even without a chapter ring as Bill noticed, the hour plots are moved closer to the center of the dial to accommodate the head of the 24 hour hand
> 24 hour hand: Small arrow head (all non-crown guard GMT-Masters -- 6452 and early 1675 non crown guards -- had the mini 24 hour hand)
> Bezel Insert: sapphire insert ok, but aluminum insert ok as well
> Bezel Insert colors: Pepsi for sure; All blue insert would be awesome


Well that's about it, I think. There's one thing: The crown on this watch has a vital function : it sets the GMT hand, so it has to be substantial making it easier to operate. For me, that rules out everything smaller than 6mm.

About the lumen: I prefer C3. It has a vintage look that fits the overall presence of the watch.

Menno

EDIT: I've been wearing my LRRP for a few days this week. Looking at 66Cooper's picture, I'm pretty sure that the Key West is easier to read than the LRRP's dial.

M.


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## TK792

Thieuster said:


> Well that's about it, I think. There's one thing: The crown on this watch has a vital function : it sets the GMT hand, so it has to be substantial making it easier to operate. For me, that rules out everything smaller than 6mm.
> 
> About the lumen: I prefer C3. It has a vintage look that fits the overall presence of the watch.
> 
> Menno
> 
> EDIT: I've been wearing my LRRP for a few days this week. Looking at 66Cooper's picture, I'm pretty sure that the Key West is easier to read than the LRRP's dial.
> 
> M.


I agree with Menno,
A substantial crown for easier operation. 
That's my 2 cents worth.


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## White Tuna

This is a mockup that *Malyel* did:










Here:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-name-discussion-698878-4.html#post5120007

I really love it and would like to see a root beer dialed version at some point. There are just sooooo many black dialed watches.

I also would prefer a larger crown and C3 lume. I think the date wheels have already been ordered. I really am not going to fight for a cyclops....I think that ship has sailed. Until I received my Kingston I was a huge proponent of the sapphire bezel insert but I love my Kingston bezel so I am not that concerned about it either way.

BTW Bill, when you make the Root Beer dialed one you can call it the Havana. :-d


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## Packleader

White Tuna said:


> This is a mockup that *Malyel* did:
> 
> Here:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-name-discussion-698878-4.html#post5120007
> 
> I really love it and would like to see a root beer dialed version at some point. There are just sooooo many black dialed watches.
> 
> I also would prefer a larger crown and C3 lume. I think the date wheels have already been ordered. I really am not going to fight for a cyclops....I think that ship has sailed. Until I received my Kingston I was a huge proponent of the sapphire bezel insert but I love my Kingston bezel so I am not that concerned about it either way.
> 
> BTW Bill, when you make the Root Beer dialed one you can call it the Havana. :-d


a big *+1* to that post.

Best wishes,
Packleader


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## pcheninhk

This looks awesome. Big +2 for the Root Beer!

By the way Bill, is it possible for you to offer the alternate color dial as an option instead of having owners having to figure their brains out


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## HJR

*+3*



White Tuna said:


> This is a mockup that *Malyel* did:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-name-discussion-698878-4.html#post5120007
> 
> I really love it and would like to see a root beer dialed version at some point. There are just sooooo many black dialed watches.
> 
> I also would prefer a larger crown and C3 lume. I think the date wheels have already been ordered. I really am not going to fight for a cyclops....I think that ship has sailed. Until I received my Kingston I was a huge proponent of the sapphire bezel insert but I love my Kingston bezel so I am not that concerned about it either way.
> 
> BTW Bill, when you make the Root Beer dialed one you can call it the Havana. :-d


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## JFingers

^ 4's in!


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## White Tuna

*I would pay a premium for a Root Beer dial. *


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## Yao

For the time being I would suggest just pretending the watch has only two colors, black and white. By which I mean that we should focus getting the elements and shape correct. The colors can be decided later. However I would say that a black dial and a white dial will be a given. Anything more than that we will have to decide later. I am weary of giving people "kits" that they can supposedly install themselves as it always comes back to me with either A) a request to fix something that is busted or for B) "tutorials" which leads back to scenario "A" except now I am responsible for creating the problem in the first place. So if a third color becomes an option it will have to mean a surcharge for those customers that want it but the pricing for everyone else that is happy with a black or white dial will have to stay the same (i.e. we can't amortize the cost of a brown dial amongst everyone).

So get your black turtleneck out and pretend you are an architect and can only see in black and white.


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## White Tuna

Yao said:


> For the time being I would suggest just pretending the watch has only two colors, black and white. By which I mean that we should focus getting the elements and shape correct. The colors can be decided later. However I would say that a black dial and a white dial will be a given. Anything more than that we will have to decide later. I am weary of giving people "kits" that they can supposedly install themselves as it always comes back to me with either A) a request to fix something that is busted or for B) "tutorials" which leads back to scenario "A" except now I am responsible for creating the problem in the first place. *So if a third color becomes an option it will have to mean a surcharge for those customers that want it but the pricing for everyone else that is happy with a black or white dial will have to stay the same (i.e. we can't amortize the cost of a brown dial amongst everyone).
> *
> So get your black turtleneck out and pretend you are an architect and can only see in black and white.


I can live with that.

I like a lot of the ideas already mentioned.


I prefer C3.
I like the cyclops but I understand that it is not likely to happen and can live with that.
I want a usable (largish) crown.
I can go with the original Kingston bezel or the sapphire bezel but certainly want a coke or pepsi bezel.
I prefer very dark blue to black on the indices of the white dial version.
MKII X Red Wing Iron Ranger collab with every watch. :-d


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## messenius

Just to join the queue of opinions...

I would like the final design to resemble as much as possible the picture 66Cooper posted. The hour indices are well placed, the 24h hand with the small arrow and all in all very well balanced watch as a whole.

One detail I seem to differ with majority is the lume. I do dislike the C3. It carries no connotation of vintage to me, instead the greenish tint reminds me of those cheap diving watches 70's and 80's. I would prefer that Bill continues using white day time lume (C1 or BWG9) in his watches. This is one major reason that I have many of his creations. To my knowledge Kingston is the first and only watch from Bill to use C3. The best option would be to have two versions with different lume, but that might not be an option 

While I'm not a fan of cyclops I would like to one used in this watch. Somehow it belongs to the design. But if not then it wouldn't stop me wearing Key West -GMT 

Looking forward seeing Bill's first drawings


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## HJR

Yao said:


> So get your black turtleneck out and pretend you are an architect and can only see in black and white.


This architect has his black turtleneck on, and would still love a root beer model! Haha! We are predictable though aren't we?!


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## aviate

Yao said:


> For the time being I would suggest just pretending the watch has only two colors, black and white. By which I mean that we should focus getting the elements and shape correct. The colors can be decided later. However I would say that a black dial and a white dial will be a given. Anything more than that we will have to decide later. I am weary of giving people "kits" that they can supposedly install themselves as it always comes back to me with either A) a request to fix something that is busted or for B) "tutorials" which leads back to scenario "A" except now I am responsible for creating the problem in the first place. So if a third color becomes an option it will have to mean a surcharge for those customers that want it but the pricing for everyone else that is happy with a black or white dial will have to stay the same (i.e. we can't amortize the cost of a brown dial amongst everyone).
> 
> So get your black turtleneck out and pretend you are an architect and can only see in black and white.


While I think that a cyclops is just part of the watch from a design standpoint if a cyclops is not to be a regular feature why not handle it as an option?


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## kkmark

messenius said:


> Just to join the queue of opinions...
> 
> I would like the final design to resemble as much as possible the picture 66Cooper posted. The hour indices are well placed, the 24h hand with the small arrow and all in all very well balanced watch as a whole.
> 
> One detail I seem to differ with majority is the lume. I do dislike the C3. It carries no connotation of vintage to me, instead the greenish tint reminds me of those cheap diving watches 70's and 80's. I would prefer that Bill continues using white day time lume (C1 or BWG9) in his watches. This is one major reason that I have many of his creations. To my knowledge Kingston is the first and only watch from Bill to use C3. The best option would be to have two versions with different lume, but that might not be an option
> 
> While I'm not a fan of cyclops I would like to one used in this watch. Somehow it belongs to the design. But if not then it wouldn't stop me wearing Key West -GMT
> 
> Looking forward seeing Bill's first drawings


+1 - I'd prefer the BGW9 white lume as well


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## BigHaole

For me:

BGW9 or C1 lume

Small 24 hour hand - maybe something between the original (tiny) and the modern. Large enough to see, small enough to not dominate

Cyclops - I know you don't want to do it, but it is a part of the classic GMT look and usefulness. This isn't a dive watch

A set of interchangeable bezels. Start me with a dark blue pepsi, but let me buy more. And when you later build the Havana, have it be the same size, so the same bezels support both.

I like the big crown idea.  It doesn't have to be Kingston big, but I have an Explorer II, which has a small crown and it's not as finger friendly.


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## pcheninhk

messenius said:


> Just to join the queue of opinions...
> 
> I would like the final design to resemble as much as possible the picture 66Cooper posted. The hour indices are well placed, the 24h hand with the small arrow and all in all very well balanced watch as a whole.
> 
> One detail I seem to differ with majority is the lume. I do dislike the C3. It carries no connotation of vintage to me, instead the greenish tint reminds me of those cheap diving watches 70's and 80's. I would prefer that Bill continues using white day time lume (C1 or BWG9) in his watches. This is one major reason that I have many of his creations. To my knowledge Kingston is the first and only watch from Bill to use C3. The best option would be to have two versions with different lume, but that might not be an option
> 
> While I'm not a fan of cyclops I would like to one used in this watch. Somehow it belongs to the design. But if not then it wouldn't stop me wearing Key West -GMT
> 
> Looking forward seeing Bill's first drawings


Agree with the above. The C3 lume is too green. Prefers the C1 or BWG9.


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## White Tuna

aviate said:


> While I think that a cyclops is just part of the watch from a design standpoint if a cyclops is not to be a regular feature why not handle it as an option?


I believe the decision was practical rather than aesthetic.


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## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> I believe the decision was practical rather than aesthetic.


I completely understand, and it's far from a deal-breaker. But I thought I'd state my preference, none-the-less.


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## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Watchamacallit said:


> Menno, IIRC a cyclops wasn't going to be an option. Aside from that, it would only be possible on a flat sapphire, not a domed one. Whether the saphhire is proud - i.e. elevated at the side - or not shouldn't have anything to do with it.
> 
> I could be totally wrong, of course.


I don't think it's necessary to have a flat sapphire for a cyclops. A lot of the old Rolex watches with acrylic crystals were slightly domed and they have cyclops.
Personally, i believe you lose a lot of the character of the GMT if you don't have a cyclops. The Roulette Date wheel would really look better with 2.5X magnification!!


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## cpotters

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Arthur said:


> I don't think it's necessary to have a flat sapphire for a cyclops. A lot of the old Rolex watches with acrylic crystals were slightly domed and they have cyclops.
> Personally, i believe you lose a lot of the character of the GMT if you don't have a cyclops. The Roulette Date wheel would really look better with 2.5X magnification!!


Arthur, I think your right about the look of the cyclops - especially if we get a roulette wheel - but IIRC it had to do with the time and/or expense to add it to Bill's spec. We all originally said that it needed to be optically useful and not just decorative, so it had to be 2.5x magnificaion or it wasn't worth the trouble. With a saphire crystal that means a couple of choices:

custom all-in-one crystal from a manufacturer. really expensive, and alignment time in assembly inceased significantly since a .5mm rotation would look horrible under that magnification.

glueing a 2.5x cyclops in place after assembly. time consuming, and not easy unless the crystal is flat, and we all seem to prefer a domed crystal.

For my old eyes, its critical to have that good cyclops otherwise I can't see the date anyway - and I'm willing to pay up for it. But if we can't do it right, I'd just as soon can it so Bill can concentrate on other details (like a saphire insert). my $0.02


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## Tetraflop

tmoris said:


> a nice article has been posted on the gmt master's history, check it out
> 
> View attachment 592773


I´d like to see a very, very dark blue + red ( verschwärzlicht in German = with black broken ciolor ? ), if a Pepsi bezel is an option.
Not the pure blue + red used for the later bezel versions.


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## White Tuna

Tetraflop said:


> I´d like to see a very, very dark blue + red ( verschwärzlicht in German = with black broken ciolor ? ), if a Pepsi bezel is an option.
> Not the pure blue + red used for the later bezel versions.


I am not sure if I would prefer this, but I have to say the way I picture it in my mind I do not think I would have a problem with it.


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## Cleans Up

here's 2cents worth.... "buy" the time we're done we'll have each put in a few bucks I'll bet- and collectively invested the cost of a havana/keywest.

Bands- Mercedes and a small triangle gmt 

Dial- Black is timeless....but also ubiquitous, so a large part of me is leaning toward white. Either way I think the previously posted 66cooper pic is great.
It may be a touch early to commit but I'd probably spring the extra $'s for a rootbeer dial, even more likely if it was labeled Havana- that combo just plain works. So an "avant" white dialed key-west with dark navy indicies and a rustic rootbeer/gilt havana please

cyclops- normally I'm a hater and remove them, but the roulette wheel certainly makes this one more appealing, if it didn't create a massive delay or extra $ I'd strongly consider it. Not a sticking point for me

Lume- I want bwg9 without a doubt. I'd go along with c3 perhaps on a dark dial, but not a white dial, it'll just look off. I'm not a big fan of c, seems like the compromise lume to me....now a c1 dial with bwg9 hands, that might be super cool

Crystal- prefer domed like the kingston, or lrrp... flat w/ cyclops could be cool but not without (cyclops). As for proud....maybe a touch if it's flat but certainly not the top hat sillyness you'll see on some tudors

For the caseback, how about the mIIk symbol with larger II's and the horizontal top and bottom curved to encircle the m&K. Sort of a pan-am inspired miik if you will

Bezel- Dark navy, or navy and red, but no light blues please


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## Thieuster

> For the caseback, how about the mIIk symbol with larger II's and the horizontal top and bottom curved to encircle the m&K. Sort of a pan-am inspired miik if you will


Nice!



> Bezel- Dark navy, or navy and red, but no light blues please


+1

Menno


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## 66Cooper

That caseback idea sound interesting. Might have to try to create that one and see if it works. Otherwise, I Pan Am style globe, deeply engraved would look outstanding.


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## 66Cooper

Ok, I as temped and had a few minutes to mess around. Just a down and dirty sketch of an idea.










Not sure why it looks so terrible but you get the idea.


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## White Tuna

GREAT job 66Cooper! I would like it to also have MKII on the there as well if you can work it in.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

|>|>


> Bezel- Dark navy, or navy and red, but no light blues please


+ another one.

I prefer C3 by a hair, but lume performance will not be critical for my purposes and intended use/function on this watch, so I can live with 'whatever'.

-Best to all. Cheers |>|>


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## OmegaCosmicMan

White Tuna said:


> GREAT job 66Cooper! I would like it to also have MKII on the there as well if you can work it in.


How about MKII in place or instead of Key West?


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## Packleader

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> How about MKII in place or instead of Key West?


+1.

I'm not sure whether there would be trademark issues with the Pan Am globe design, but I would like to see "MKII" on the caseback within some type of globe, to capture the spirit of a GMT.

Cheers,
Packleader


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## JCW1980

Thieuster said:


> Well that's about it, I think. There's one thing: The crown on this watch has a vital function : it sets the GMT hand, so it has to be substantial making it easier to operate. For me, that rules out everything smaller than 6mm.


+1 on the 6mm Crown


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## 66Cooper

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> How about MKII in place or instead of Key West?


I will be giving that a try shortly. I just didnt have time and I wanted to see what a Pan Am font would look like. The mkII logo shouldnt be too hard to fit in there.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

JCW1980 said:


> +1 on the 6mm Crown


b-) (and another)

b-) +1 for 6mm crown - I don't think it should be any larger, nor any smaller. 6mm is just right. |>|>


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## Cleans Up

66Cooper said:


> That caseback idea sound interesting. Might have to try to create that one and see if it works. Otherwise, I Pan Am style globe, deeply engraved would look outstanding.


I'm afraid anything so distinctly pan-am will be off the list, as there's still a remote possibility that it could be protected etc, iirc bill said no matter the assurances offered he's not willing to use it, and I personally understand and respect that. As for the "look" I do like your mock up, and it would be nice to see somehting similar with the mIIk logo. 
Cheers 

Also +1 for the biggest crown we can use. I don't suppose an 8mm is an option as that was exclusive to the kingston, but I'd take a 7 over 6mm


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



aviate said:


> Regarding the cyclops, I don't recall it having been taken off the table...aren't there quite a few people involved that feel the cyclops is intrinsic to the design?


I don't believe the cyclops question has been completely taken off the table. Here's what Bill had to say about it last October in Post #63 of the *Is the Pan Am Dead?* thread (thought I remembered this...I had to go looking for a few minutes):



Yao said:


> If the vast majority of everyone wants a cyclops I will see what I can do.


I think it's still one of those design element concerns that Bill means to address after some of the simpler items are firmed up, like the dial design.

Personally, I've never been crazy about the cyclops, but I think it might be a charming addition to this watch. That said, I plan to own a Key-West either way.


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



eganwh said:


> + 1 on:
> Small GMT hand
> Roulette date wheel
> No crown guard
> 
> I did not realize the hour marker location issue. Wow! ` This would be a great way to distinguish the Key West GMT. Thanks, 66Cooper, for pointing it out.


This dial layout is perfect. (thanks 66 Cooper) I like the placement of the hour markers to distinguish it from other sub designs. Couple the marker placement with the smaller GMT hand which is even with the minute markers and the GMT hand is unobtrusive to reading the time.

I like the BGW9 lume as i prefer it to C3 in the non-charged state for this project. The Roulette date wheel is a must. I would have to see the different dial minute track colors that have been discussed (gilt, dark blue etc.) and think about it some more.

I am not sure what dial color I would prefer but agree that black, (darker) blue and Pepsi bezels are the way to go.

As for the crystal Dome, proud or a combo works for me but would want to look at examples further as modern watches that try and capture the vintage look sometimes miss the mark when it comes to the crystal design.

I think the crown needs to be prominent but not Kingston sized. 6mm seems right for this project, possibly even 5.5mm. Scale drawings would help when we come to that. Defintely no crown guards on the case.

Once we arrive to discussing whether cyclops is an option and other colors besides black and white dials I will give that more thought.


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

AFA Crown size, I think that a 6mm is the minimum size that should be considered. I have a GMT 16750 with the 5.3mm crown, and I assure you it's tiny and not the easiest size to manipulate. i also believe that the Kingston size crown is too big.

Ny feelings, and I have stated this before are simply, MKII should follow the size specs of the original 6542 as closely as possible.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Arthur said:


> AFA Crown size, I think that a 6mm is the minimum size that should be considered. I have a GMT 16750 with the 5.3mm crown, and I assure you it's tiny and not the easiest size to manipulate. i also believe that the Kingston size crown is too big.
> 
> Ny feelings, and I have stated this before are simply, MKII should follow the size specs of the original 6542 as closely as possible.


Thank you, Arthur; What was the size of the crown on the watch you referenced (6542)?

-Best, Have a good day-


----------



## tomr

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Arthur said:


> AFA Crown size, I think that a 6mm is the minimum size that should be considered. I have a GMT 16750 with the 5.3mm crown, and I assure you it's tiny and not the easiest size to manipulate. i also believe that the Kingston size crown is too big.
> 
> Ny feelings, and I have stated this before are simply, MKII should follow the size specs of the original 6542 as closely as possible.


I also would like to see MKII follow the size specs of the original 6542, however, it has been stated that the Key West will be based upon the Kingston case, which is a larger watch than the original. Therefore, the crown size should be scaled to that case rather than be duplicated from the 6542. I concur with the other elements referenced, such as the small GMT pointer; roulette date; pepsi bezel with a black or dark blue option (sorry, I have no interest in the root beer color); and, a cyclops, if it can be effectively applied.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, and it might be moot due to my previously mentioned Kingston case reference, is that the original GMT models are all thinner than the Submariner models. This is primarily due to a thinner case back. I have worn both models, and the GMT's wear more comfortably than the Subs because of their slimmer profile. Like I said, it is probably not an option if the Kingston case is the basis for the watch, but it would be nice if Bill could source a slimmer case back for the Key West.


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Arthur said:


> I have a GMT 16750 with the 5.3mm crown, and I assure you it's tiny and not the easiest size to manipulate. ... MKII should follow the size specs of the original 6542 as closely as possible.





OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Thank you, Arthur; What was the size of the crown on the watch you referenced (6542)?


I like the idea of either using the 6542 crown size, or using the same ratio of crown size to case size (if the 6542 case is a different size than the Key West / Kingston).

For the life of me I can't find a reference to the 6542's crown size. This is making my head hurt... NM, 6mm feels about right.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



JCW1980 said:


> I like the idea of either using the 6542 crown size, or using the same ratio of crown size to case size (if the 6542 case is a different size than the Key West / Kingston).
> 
> For the life of me I can't find a reference to the 6542's crown size. This is making my head hurt... NM, 6mm feels about right.


*Roger* that


----------



## Yao

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Here is the first cut of the dial with the hands. Please note that the hour and minute hands are tweaked versions of the ones used on the Kingston. They are thinner and slightly smaller to give the dial a more open look. Let me know you feedback. I will read the comments as well as the ones posted before my post to look at how the design should change.


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

EDIT:

I'm clarifying my selection.

I want the hour markers to be smaller as in B, but set farther from the inside of the dial as in A.

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

"B" gets my vote, assuming the GMT hand is lengthened and the triangle skims the outer edge of the hour marker.


----------



## messenius

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I vote for dial B. The smaller hour markers go well with thinner hour/minute hands plus they achieve better that 'open' and balanced look of the dial. At the same time the hour markers being a bit closer to centre of the dial don't leave the dial looking empty. All in all dial B has much more vintage look compared to dial A which reminds me of current R**ex maxi dial (of which I dislike).


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Vote: B

Great mock-ups! I definitely think the indices should be 'moved in' like the original rolie design. Not only is it functional, but it also differentiates the dial from the Kingston in yet another interesting way. Also, I second *nuovorecord*'s comment above that the GMT hand could be longer in order to move the arrow completely out from above the hour indices (conversely, you could also move the hour indices in toward the center a touch more to achieve the same effect).

Thanks for sharing Bill! Really looking forward to seeing more. These images have got me second guessing my choice of a white dialed Key West.


----------



## MHe225

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

*B* for me - looks more balanced.

I am not (yet) second guessing my preference for the white dialed Key West and look forward to seeing mock-ups of those as well. 
I'm not a photoshop expert, so apologies if this is a stupid question: isn't showing a white dialed version not just a few mouse-clicks?

Ron*B*


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



nuovorecord said:


> "B" gets my vote, assuming the GMT hand is lengthened and the triangle skims the outer edge of the hour marker.


:think: Yes, I like "B" as well.

Suggestion: Should the point of the GMT hand run just shy of the minute-track circle? I think as others have suggested already, that this may give the base of the red GMT triangle clearance to just outside of the outer portion of the hour markers -

Thanks Bill! This really helps to visualize some of the elements and how they interact. |>


----------



## enkidu

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I like B also. I think, the GMT hand should be the same length as the second hand and the GMT triangle head should be a bit smaller, perhaps the same width as the distance between the minute marker.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



enkidu said:


> I like B also. I think, the GMT hand should be the same length as the second hand and the GMT triangle head should be a bit smaller, perhaps the same width as the distance between the minute marker.


:think: Sounds like a good idea to me too! Thanks for the suggestion -

-Best, OCM.


----------



## cpotters

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

"B" please.


----------



## Watchamacallit

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Rather B than A, but preferably like this:


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

B. No doubt! I love the fact that the hands are a little slimmer than the Kingston's. And I must say that Lambert's picture of the postion of the dial and hands of the GMT are very helpful imaging a perfect watch!

Menno


----------



## tomr

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I also prefer *B* for its balanced look, as well as being more similar to the original. This dial, along with having the slightly thinner hands will differentiate it from the Kingston, sufficiently. The GMT hand can extend beyond the minute track, as it points to the hour number on the bezel.

Does this illustration imply that there will be a black dial version with gilt hands and indices? At some point it would be good to see mockups of black and white dials with silver hands and indices, as well.


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

*B*


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Watchamacallit said:


> Rather B than A, but preferably like this:


|>|> Exactly right! (imho) b-)b-)


----------



## messenius

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

So could the hour markers be even smaller in B dial as in picture above?


----------



## apong23

Version B looks better to me.


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Definitely in favor of "B" with the indices closer to the center. Version "A" looks to "maxi dialish" for my taste.


----------



## Reintitan

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I prefer B.


----------



## Packleader

Yao said:


> For the time being I would suggest just pretending the watch has only two colors, black and white. By which I mean that we should focus getting the elements and shape correct. The colors can be decided later. However I would say that a black dial and a white dial will be a given. Anything more than that we will have to decide later. I am weary of giving people "kits" that they can supposedly install themselves as it always comes back to me with either A) a request to fix something that is busted or for B) "tutorials" which leads back to scenario "A" except now I am responsible for creating the problem in the first place. So if a third color becomes an option it will have to mean a surcharge for those customers that want it but the pricing for everyone else that is happy with a black or white dial will have to stay the same (i.e. we can't amortize the cost of a brown dial amongst everyone).
> 
> So get your black turtleneck out and pretend you are an architect and can only see in black and white.


That sounds fair, Bill.

I'm 100% in favor of the brown dial Havana.

In the meantime, however, I've got my black and white glasses on for the design phase.

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## kkmark

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



messenius said:


> So could the hour markers be even smaller in B dial as in picture above?


+1 - wondering if the dial would look more open if the hour markers were slightly smaller in diameter. And my vote is for B.


----------



## HJR

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

*B* again!


----------



## jussi

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

B!
and the GMT hand lenghtend to reach outside of the minutemarkers, as it's supposed to point at the numbers on the bezel.


----------



## aviate

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> |>|> Exactly right! (imho) b-)b-)


In looking at the picture that Watchamacallit provided a couple of details really stand out. The lume on the minute hand doesn't project or cross overtop the lume on the indices. Instead a longer metal tip crosses the markers. To me this would stand out in comparison to 99% of the watches out there. Also, the tip of the seconds hand reaches to the seconds ring. This just looks right. Finally, the GMT hand has a very understated triangle that projects past the seconds ring pointing right to the bezel. All three details combine to lend a vintage look to the design of the watch. I would like to see all three incorporated.


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I also like B. I wouldn't mind the GMT hand being longer, but I like the size of the triangle in the mockup. I don't care for the tiny triangles in the vintage watches.


----------



## tako_watch

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

B for Me


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Watchamacallit said:


> Rather B than A, but preferably like this:


My vote is for B, using the characteristics in this picture.
Specifically to answer Bill's question. A longer GMT hand with a small triangle that is closer to the minute track than the hour markers.


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Bill, may I add another question? Would it be possible to make the 'dotted' side of the second hand a fraction larger than on the two pics you showed us previously? Exactly long enough - so that the dot covers the center of the Mercedes EXACTLY when passing over/crossing it? For me, that's a sign of quality: taking care of even this tiny, tiny detail.

Menno


----------



## rothko

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I'm new to the game here - hi everyone. I like the B dial as well.


----------



## tako_watch

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Thieuster said:


> Bill, may I add another question? Would it be possible to make the 'dotted' side of the second hand a fraction larger than on the two pics you showed us previously? Exactly long enough - so that the dot covers the center of the Mercedes EXACTLY when passing over/crossing it? For me, that's a sign of quality: taking care of even this tiny, tiny detail.
> 
> Menno


Excellent suggestion Menno....good attention to detail!

by that...should the meatball be bisected in half as it covers the date frame?


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



BigHaole said:


> I also like B. I wouldn't mind the GMT hand being longer, but I like the size of the triangle in the mockup. I don't care for the tiny triangles in the vintage watches.


+1

I'd like the GMT triangle to be a bit larger than the vintage version (which I find to be extremely small), but not nearly as big as the contemporary triangle... Maybe 25% of the difference between the small and the large, if that makes sense.


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Thieuster said:


> Bill, may I add another question? Would it be possible to make the 'dotted' side of the second hand a fraction larger than on the two pics you showed us previously? Exactly long enough - so that the dot covers the center of the Mercedes EXACTLY when passing over/crossing it? For me, that's a sign of quality: taking care of even this tiny, tiny detail.
> 
> Menno


I do not always agree with you, but most often I do, but you always have good ideas. :-!


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Watchamacallit said:


> Rather B than A, but preferably like this:


Rolex got it right the first time!! This is a classic. There are a whole lot of 50 year old watches out there, but there aren't many that were in this price range that are as coveted and expensive as these are today. I would be very happy if the dial/hand proportions are exactly like the watch pictured above. As I have said before, I am not interested in a watch that is a mis-mash of Rolex vintage and Rolex contemporary. There are plenty of those out there.


----------



## pcheninhk

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Arthur said:


> Rolex got it right the first time!! This is a classic. There are a whole lot of 50 year old watches out there, but there aren't many that were in this price range that are as coveted and expensive as these are today. I would be very happy if the dial/hand proportions are exactly like the watch pictured above. As I have said before, I am not interested in a watch that is a mis-mash of Rolex vintage and Rolex contemporary. There are plenty of those out there.


I agree 100% Arthur! Vintage all the way. B dial with small triangle.


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Thieuster said:


> Bill, may I add another question? Would it be possible to make the 'dotted' side of the second hand a fraction larger than on the two pics you showed us previously? Exactly long enough - so that the dot covers the center of the Mercedes EXACTLY when passing over/crossing it? For me, that's a sign of quality: taking care of even this tiny, tiny detail.
> 
> Menno


+1

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Thieuster said:


> Bill, may I add another question? Would it be possible to make the 'dotted' side of the second hand a fraction larger than on the two pics you showed us previously? Exactly long enough - so that the dot covers the center of the Mercedes EXACTLY when passing over/crossing it? For me, that's a sign of quality: taking care of even this tiny, tiny detail.


Like this idea. I like the small details that are signs of craftsmanship, but very subtle at the same time.



Arthur said:


> Rolex got it right the first time!! This is a classic. There are a whole lot of 50 year old watches out there, but there aren't many that were in this price range that are as coveted and expensive as these are today. I would be very happy if the dial/hand proportions are exactly like the watch pictured above. As I have said before, I am not interested in a watch that is a mis-mash of Rolex vintage and Rolex contemporary. There are plenty of those out there.


I agree with you; the original GMT Master is a classic by all rights. I still think that triangle is super small though. I'm all for making it a bit bigger...I mean, look at the lume dot on *Watchamacallit*'s pic above...that would look like a grain of sand. ;-)

Just my very humble opinion.


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



JCW1980 said:


> Like this idea. I like the small details that are signs of craftsmanship, but very subtle at the same time.
> 
> I agree with you; the original GMT Master is a classic by all rights. I still think that triangle is super small though. I'm all for making it a bit bigger...I mean, look at the lume dot on *Watchamacallit*'s pic above...that would look like a grain of sand. ;-)
> 
> Just my very humble opinion.


I agree the lume dot in this example is small. I have seen several others that have more lume on the same size arrow, makes a big difference. Another thing that happens, and I have seen this in old lume shots, the GMT hand is so close to the rehault that the lume reflects off and what you see are two lume dots, right next to each other.


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Arthur said:


> I agree the lume dot in this example is small. I have seen several others that have more lume on the same size arrow, makes a big difference. Another thing that happens, and I have seen this in old lume shots, the GMT hand is so close to the rehault that the lume reflects off and what you see are two lume dots, right next to each other.


Interesting. Yeah i didnt think about the reflection of the GMT lume in the chamfered edge of the crystal.

I'm all about the small GMT triangle, just don't want to have to squint to see it. (But I would definitely prefer having to squint over having the huge, modern, clown [I jest] triangle) ;-)


----------



## Yao

MHe225 said:


> B for me - looks more balanced.
> 
> I am not (yet) second guessing my preference for the white dialed Key West and look forward to seeing mock-ups of those as well.
> I'm not a photoshop expert, so apologies if this is a stupid question: isn't showing a white dialed version not just a few mouse-clicks?
> 
> RonB


It's a few more than that but in the end I just ran out of time. If I had more time I would have done the date window first.


----------



## Yao

Watchamacallit said:


> Rather B than A, but preferably like this:


Thanks for that. I will try to make the luminous bit bigger than the pic because at that size it will not glow well or for very long.


----------



## Yao

tomr said:


> I also prefer B for its balanced look, as well as being more similar to the original. This dial, along with having the slightly thinner hands will differentiate it from the Kingston, sufficiently. The GMT hand can extend beyond the minute track, as it points to the hour number on the bezel.
> 
> Does this illustration imply that there will be a black dial version with gilt hands and indices? At some point it would be good to see mockups of black and white dials with silver hands and indices, as well.


Yes there will be a black and white dial option. There will also be options for the corresponding bezels in aluminum. We are still trying to work out a sapphire option for the bezel.


----------



## Yao

Thieuster said:


> Bill, may I add another question? Would it be possible to make the 'dotted' side of the second hand a fraction larger than on the two pics you showed us previously? Exactly long enough - so that the dot covers the center of the Mercedes EXACTLY when passing over/crossing it? For me, that's a sign of quality: taking care of even this tiny, tiny detail.
> 
> Menno


Those of you with a Nassau....can you confirm my observation that the current seconds hand and hour hand already overlap as Menno suggested. It's purely an accident but a fortuitous one 

I may need to update the mock-up of the seconds hand for accuracy.


----------



## Yao

Arthur said:


> I agree the lume dot in this example is small. I have seen several others that have more lume on the same size arrow, makes a big difference. Another thing that happens, and I have seen this in old lume shots, the GMT hand is so close to the rehault that the lume reflects off and what you see are two lume dots, right next to each other.


Interesting point!


----------



## Yao

JCW1980 said:


> Interesting. Yeah i didnt think about the reflection of the GMT lume in the chamfered edge of the crystal.
> 
> I'm all about the small GMT triangle, just don't want to have to squint to see it. (But I would definitely prefer having to squint over having the huge, modern, clown triangle) ;-)


We will have to do a test. The chamfer on the Kingston crystal is smaller than on an acrylic crystal so may be it won't be as much a factor plus we can always pull the GMT hand in a little to see what happens. We can test this with a LRRP GMT hand and may be a sweep seconds hand.


----------



## Yao

I should be able to post a mock-up of the white dial by Tuesday.


----------



## Thieuster

Great answers, Bill, thanks. I'm looking forward to see your next set of proposals/pictures.

Menno

EDIT: after posting, I noticed that this is my 1000th WUS posting! Nice to see that it involves the design of the Key West GMT.

M.


----------



## cpotters

Yao said:


> We are still trying to work out a sapphire option for the bezel.


Yea!!!


----------



## Yao

66Cooper said:


> Ok, I as temped and had a few minutes to mess around. Just a down and dirty sketch of an idea.
> 
> Not sure why it looks so terrible but you get the idea.


Brian that's great. I won't need much help on the dial but would love to have your help on the case back. Here are some guidelines if it's okay:

- the globe as drawn may be trademarked. IIRC Pan Am used to use just the globe in the corporate ID
- if you come up with a suitable design that include some cues from PanAm I would only suggest that you make sure t he design can't be modified to cause confusion or create an improper connection to PanAm
- however there are some great old airline old logo styles we can borrow from
- you may also consider making up an airline. For example WUS Air, for example (and of course with Ernie's blessing if the name strikes a cord)


----------



## Reintitan

Yao said:


> Those of you with a Nassau....can you confirm my observation that the current seconds hand and hour hand already overlap as Menno suggested. It's purely an accident but a fortuitous one
> 
> I may need to update the mock-up of the seconds hand for accuracy.


Yes, it does overlap on my Nassau (#03) dead center; also on my LRRP GMT 48 with the Mercedes hands, it overlaps as well, but it's not 100% over the center of the Mercedes star of the hour hand, about a 1/2 mm off of center. As for my Kingston, it's at the bank so I can't check it at the moment.


----------



## Reintitan

Yao said:


> Brian that's great. I won't need much help on the dial but would love to have your help on the case back. Here are some guidelines if it's okay:
> 
> - the globe as drawn may be trademarked. IIRC Pan Am used to use just the globe in the corporate ID
> - if you come up with a suitable design that include some cues from PanAm I would only suggest that you make sure t he design can't be modified to cause confusion or create an improper connection to PanAm
> - however there are some great old airline old logo styles we can borrow from
> - you may also consider making up an airline. For example WUS Air, for example (and of course with Ernie's blessing if the name strikes a cord)


Just my $0.02, but can we please not "make up an airline"? There's no need to make one up and "WUS Air" sounds terrible IMHO :-d If there are copyright or trademark issues, let's go ahead and skip the engraving. This watch is a homage and inspired by the 6542, and IMHO it doesn't need to pretend to be something it is not. No to poseurs :-d


----------



## cpotters

I cannot believe that just the globe logo would be a problem, because:

Man From UNCLE logo: 
The Man from U.N.C.L.E. Logo Mousepad (new), MTCTOYS.COM

DTH DRILLING SOLUTIONS logo:
HOME

Globe Oil's logo:
http://images.wikia.com/gtawiki/images/e/ec/Globe-Oil-Logo.PNG

And so on......these are all just generic globes, hinted at with latitude and longitude lines. HOWEVER, the Pan Am Globe is very different:

http://www.bynonartservices.com/mark_blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/284px-pan_am_logosvg.png

much more stylized, with curved latitudes swinging from the equator and a single longitude line in the center. In other words, the less stylized, the better.

BTW, I'll bet you twenty bucks that the Pan Am typeface in the globe is also copyright protected.


----------



## Arthur

cpotters said:


> I cannot believe that just the globe logo would be a problem, because:
> 
> Man From UNCLE logo:
> The Man from U.N.C.L.E. Logo Mousepad (new), MTCTOYS.COM
> 
> DTH DRILLING SOLUTIONS logo:
> HOME
> 
> Globe Oil's logo:
> http://images.wikia.com/gtawiki/images/e/ec/Globe-Oil-Logo.PNG
> 
> And so on......these are all just generic globes, hinted at with latitude and longitude lines. HOWEVER, the Pan Am Globe is very different:
> 
> http://www.bynonartservices.com/mark_blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/284px-pan_am_logosvg.png
> 
> much more stylized, with curved latitudes swinging from the equator and a single longitude line in the center. In other words, the less stylized, the better.
> 
> BTW, I'll bet you twenty bucks that the Pan Am typeface in the globe is also copyright protected.


Charlie, I bet you are right, there are lots and lots of globe logos for companies all over the world. I don't think you would raise and eyebrow unless you copied the Pan Am globe almost exactly. Go to eBay and type in Pan Am there are hundreds of items for sale, some of them are original memorabilia from the company, but a whole lot of it is new stuff, and everything has the Pan Am logo on it. I doubt that Bill would risk running afoul of the folks who own all the Pan Am copyrights, but there should be workable solutions that feature a similar globe on the case back.


----------



## Packleader

cpotters said:


> BTW, I'll bet you twenty bucks that the Pan Am typeface in the globe is also copyright protected.


That's not a bet you want to make, cp. b-)

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## cpotters

Packleader said:


> That's not a bet you want to make, cp. b-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Packleader


Well, I believe in being cocky, but only to a point: that's why I didn't say one hundred


----------



## BigHaole

Yao said:


> We are still trying to work out a sapphire option for the bezel.


Now THAT gets me excited about this project!


----------



## Yao

Here is mock-up of the Black and white versions of the dial "B". I know there are those of you that want to do a black print on a white painted dial but I ask you to reserve judgement of the mock-up until I post a crude but still more useful picture of what the dial can look like. Personally I think a black print on white dial will look cheap. I think the dual plating with white and gold is more befitting an executive look. Believe me when I say I am not doing myself any favors. A black and white dial would be much cheaper and easier to manufacture than the version I am proposing.

Please note that on the while dial I have outlined the luminous markers in black for contrast. In actuality there will be no black printing around the luminous markers.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Awesome Bill! :-!

I have to admit the white dial takes my breath away.

But, and I know this is going to be really hard to do, but I have to ask-

Instead of a black outline around the hour markings, what about dark blue, like a navy blue, with the gold? If that is possible.

And I wonder what the white dial would look like with C3 filling the markers where they are white now?

Now, here is another thing I have been trying to do...the case back. (Credit to 66cooper here for the inspiration |>|>...and the hijacked drawing! )

Something old (borrowed) and something new (MKII) pardon the poor attempt, I've tried to modify others' work (credit: 66 cooper) to get my idea across. Building on the work of others as it were - I'm no graphic artist, but here goes....









Where I have shown the MKII logo in black (because I have not figured out how to show it otherwise - yet) imagine it engraved. This takes inspiration from the original case back logo and adds some MKII branding (in a big way).

What do you all think?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Awesome Bill! :-!
> 
> I have to admit the white dial takes my breath away.
> 
> And I wonder what the white dial would look like with C3 filling the markers where they are white now?
> 
> What do you all think?


:roll: (Apologizing in advance....) ;-)

Well, a saying where I grew into one career that I had was ".... that it is easier to ask for forgiveness, than it is to ask for permission..." ;-)

If you'll bear with me, I took the liberty of modifying Bill's suggested white dial above, and filled the hour markers in with what my digital camera and my computer say is the color of C3 lume (from another watch) - (It may look a little too dark yellow to me....) :think:









What do you all think? 

Thank you Bill, for all the signs of forward progress on the projects. |>|>

-Best to all; Good Night!


----------



## Thieuster

Wow, I wasn't expecting that the white dial would look so wonderful! Before looking at it, I was convinced that the black dial would be my first (and only...) choice. I'm not so sure anymore. I love the caseback btw. It takes it away from the obvious: the PanAm logo, but it keeps in touch (so to speak) with the original theme.

I'm returning to what I've written before: is it possible to get both dials? One installed and the other one as a 'spare'. It will add value to the whole project. 

Menno


----------



## Reintitan

Awesome Bill. That white dial really pops with the gold. May I request that for both the black and white dials, can we get the font "KEY WEST - GMT" to be in red? The earliest 6542s had their "GMT-Master" writing in red. Very rare.

Here's some pics of a white/silver dial 1675 Cornino (pointed crown guard) with the PanAM engraving! Pics copyright from Bullibeer and posted on VRF.




























And here's an amazing condition 6542 with Serpico Y Laino dial.


----------



## kkmark

I agree that black print on a white dial looks cheap - I'm thinking of a current watch model from a famous Swiss watch brand. I am surprised how nice the gold/white dual plating looks. 

I wonder, however, how it will look when prototyped. I say that because I have the Kingston in gold/black and the "look" of the gold on black changes depending on how light hits the surface. 

I'm assuming that white is white but Bill, are you thinking of having the white base match the color of the lume? The other potential issue is that the gold might look washed out against the white...again not sure how it will look once produced.

Not trying to make this even tougher but is there a way to give the gold text a thin black outline so that it "pops"?


----------



## MHe225

Thieuster said:


> Wow, I wasn't expecting that the white dial would look so wonderful!


I was ;-) and I'm absolutely not disappointed. I'm getting even more excited about thi soption as I was before and hope that the suggestion made by some -and quoeted by Menno- turns in to reality: Plank kits with both white and black dials |> I know that I will then ask Bill to install the white dial on my watch.

And I do like OCM's mock-up of the case-back too |>

RonB


----------



## giosdad

I love everything about the mock-ups, especially the white dial version. I think we should look at the use of C3 closer on the white dial as suggested.

I am not a big fan of black outlined details on a white dial. Case in point: I love the Patek Nautilus and though I have not seen the white dial that debuted this year I think that it looks cartoon-ish in pictures.


----------



## Thieuster

I think that the quality of the gilt 'lines' around the lumen is soo good that it will not be necessary to use black lines. Remember: the lumen is a little raised above dial, making shadows on the gilt lines, adding contrast between the gilt and the white dial. On the other hands, a paper white dial will be so bright that it will 'absorb' the gold. An ivory colored dial will be less bright, more pleasing to look at and it will enhance the gilt lines. (I have no other word than 'ivory', but I'm sure you know what I mean).

Menno

Here's one of Galpo's pics to show what I mean. I hope you don't mind using one of your pics! I don't have macro shots of my Kingston... - if you not happy with the fact I'm using these pics, just let me know and I will remove it off course.

M

EDIT: funny how one is tossed between choices! On November 2 2011 (posting #5 of that thread), I was convinced that a white dial would look perfect and I would like to see the black dial in a (the) spares kit. Later my taste changed towards the black dial... and now I'm back again, loving the looks of the propesed white dial! https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/how-would-you-like-panam-look-605034.html


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

kkmark said:


> I agree that black print on a white dial looks cheap - I'm thinking of a current watch model from a famous Swiss watch brand. I am surprised how nice the gold/white dual plating looks.
> 
> I wonder, however, how it will look when prototyped. I say that because I have the Kingston in gold/black and the "look" of the gold on black changes depending on how light hits the surface.
> 
> I'm assuming that white is white but Bill, are you thinking of having the white base match the color of the lume? The other potential issue is that the gold might look washed out against the white...again not sure how it will look once produced.
> 
> Not trying to make this even tougher but is there a way to give the gold text a thin black outline so that it "pops"?


:think: My thinking was along this thought also, but I was thinking a very thin navy or very dark blue between the gold dial marker and the white dial.

:think: But, I will rely on Bill's judgement here - In the end he's going to have to design the thing and see that his vision is brought forward, and it will carry his company's name and reputation - I defer to his judgement and opinion.

|>|> I am very glad and grateful to have the opportunity to suggest and discuss. And, I am very glad to see the evolution and progress of this watch design. |>|>

 I have a hunch that this will be MKII's ultimate pinnacle of achievement thus far. The bar just moves higher and higher.....b-)


----------



## kkmark

Seems silly that I agreed that black text on a white dial looks cheap...and then in the same post I asked about black outlines! If I could rephrase, I'd just simply ask about whether more contrast - whether it be an "ivory" white used or an outline of some sort - can be built into the white dial so the gold is not washed out from certain angles.


----------



## White Tuna

Will the gilt process for the Key West dials be the same as the process used forthe Kingston's?

Also, would the second hand on the white faced version look better with a red tip?


----------



## Yao

White Tuna said:


> Will the gilt process for the Key West dials be the same as the process used forthe Kingston's?


Yes the process is largely the same. The technique is only slightly different.



> Also, would the second hand on the white faced version look better with a red tip?


Yes perhaps it would. Although I don't know if this will be an option.


----------



## Yao

cpotters said:


> I cannot believe that just the globe logo would be a problem, because:
> 
> Man From UNCLE logo:
> The Man from U.N.C.L.E. Logo Mousepad (new), MTCTOYS.COM
> 
> DTH DRILLING SOLUTIONS logo:
> HOME
> 
> Globe Oil's logo:
> http://images.wikia.com/gtawiki/images/e/ec/Globe-Oil-Logo.PNG
> 
> And so on......these are all just generic globes, hinted at with latitude and longitude lines. HOWEVER, the Pan Am Globe is very different:
> 
> http://www.bynonartservices.com/mark_blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/284px-pan_am_logosvg.png
> 
> much more stylized, with curved latitudes swinging from the equator and a single longitude line in the center. In other words, the less stylized, the better.
> 
> BTW, I'll bet you twenty bucks that the Pan Am typeface in the globe is also copyright protected.


I don't disagree but the designs that have come forth so far stray too close to the PanAm globe. The details will make the difference.


----------



## Yao

Reintitan said:


> Awesome Bill. That white dial really pops with the gold. May I request that for both the black and white dials, can we get the font "KEY WEST - GMT" to be in red? The earliest 6542s had their "GMT-Master" writing in red. Very rare.


Well remind me about this detail later. I think it would be cool on the Black dial. May be sticking with the gold on the white though. I think the red lettering might stand out too much on the white dial.


----------



## JCW1980

Yao said:


> Well remind me about this detail later. I think it would be cool on the Black dial. May be sticking with the gold on the white though. I think the red lettering might stand out too much on the white dial.


Just for reference, there is a brand out there, named after a certain Greek letter, that has a white face GMT with black outlined indices, a red-tipped second hand, and a small amount of red printing on the dial. Here's a link to a pic, posted elsewhere on WUS (not my pic, credit to AtlantaDave). This is purely to help solidify mental images for some of us concerning design ideas that have been brought up recently.

(Bill/Mods, please remove this post if it pushes the boundaries of any rules. Thanks.)


----------



## White Tuna

Thenk you for the responses Bill.

Thanks for the link JCW1980.

I see where the black indices do look a little "printed". As for the red lettering and red tipped seconds hand they look nice but I am starting to think all of that red is getting a little too cartoonish. I am not sure what the process is that Bill uses to create the dials and I do not wish to discuss it since it is his business. I do wonder if adding another color would increase cost and possible scrap rate of the dials. Adding another color to the dial is not a great concern of mine after seeing that link.

I am not sure I would fight either way on it. I am more concerned with the lume choice on the white dial.

I also do not care if Bill "should" be OK with case back designs. I would rather have a case back that is clear and free of all possible problems.

PS: Root Beer dial with gilt would be iconic. Just sayin'.


----------



## Arthur

Yao said:


> Well remind me about this detail later. I think it would be cool on the Black dial. May be sticking with the gold on the white though. I think the red lettering might stand out too much on the white dial.


I love the gilt/White. I asked about this months and months ago, but lots of folks were not pleased with the idea, as many said the gilt would sort of get "lost" on the white dial. I disagree. I believe using C3 would give the indices quite a bit of color difference which with the gold surrounds and raised lume would look awsome.I als agree that this would give the watch a lot more polished "Dressed up" look. There are lots of white dial watches with black lettering around, I agree that thye don't look as nice as the White/Gilt.


----------



## Arthur

What I'm really liking about all this, is it's starting to look like it's getting past the conceptual, lets talk about it stage, to the Hey, here's what it's going to look like lets "get er done" stage. 
Looking at the White dialed, Greek letter named, watch in the postabove, I don't like several thingsw about it. One the White lume is "lost on the dial, the black outlines don't do anything for me, and the red lettered GMT sort of looks like and afterthought. I'm really a purist, and my feelings are if it's going to be a homage to the 6542, lets make it as close as possible without running headlong into copyright problems. the red GMT hand is all the red it needs, lettering in gilt like the Kingston is fine with me. I love the idea of a Globe engraved on the back, but the one that was shown with a Pan Am globe with MKII in the center is probably going to cause a problem with the Pan AM copyright holders.


----------



## Packleader

Yao said:


> I don't disagree but the designs that have come forth so far stray too close to the PanAm globe. The details will make the difference.


I agree. I was actually thinking that a caseback having a globe with the continents outlined could look quite spectacular.

Best wishes,
Packleader


----------



## JCW1980

Arthur said:


> ...I'm really a purist, and my feelings are if it's going to be a homage to the 6542, lets make it as close as possible without running headlong into copyright problems. the red GMT hand is all the red it needs, lettering in gilt like the Kingston is fine with me. ...


The more I think about the extra red details (tipped seconds, printing) the more I agree with *Arthur*. The purist, homage approach is best; it's going to have plenty of red between the GMT hand and the pepsi or coke bezel insert...don't want to over do it.

My humble opinion. ;-)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

JCW1980 said:


> The more I think about the extra red details (tipped seconds, printing) the more I agree with *Arthur*. The purist, homage approach is best; it's going to have plenty of red between the GMT hand and the pepsi or coke bezel insert...don't want to over do it.
> 
> My humble opinion. ;-)


:think: I agree also, with all of the comments above from Bill, Arthur and JCW1980. I proposed the MKII/Globe engraved case back but if it causes problems, we should do something different. I think a globe engraving of some sort on the case back would add a lot to the project, and this could be done without specific design reference to the original watch.

I agree with Arthur's comments on the white dial and the lume completely. The gilt-and-white dial is going to prove to be a spectacular achievement, and C3 lume would help, by providing visual differentiation or some degree of contrast between the hour markers and the white of the dial; more so than would BGW9,_ in my humble opinion_. :think:

-My proposals are meant only to stimulate discussion and bring forth suggestions from all of the participants here - There is much more opportunity for interesting and out-of-the-box *good* ideas from this bunch than many of the corporate board rooms and executive planning sessions in most companies, I would guess. ;-)

-And I appreciate it all- |>|>

-My Best to All.....Carry On,Gentlemen.


----------



## messenius

Don't know about the C3 lume. I'm afraid that there would be too much going on with the colour palette: bezel red/blue, 24hr hand red, hour markers/hands gold (yellow) and the greenish lume of C3. Would it still look balanced, I'm not sure. But with BGW9 the hour markers might not be visible at a glance. 

But do we know if the white dial is matt or glossy? If glossy then the matt lume could make enough contrast to the dial for easy reading. Another option is to use aged lume. The 'age' could be very mild and only to add contrast to the white dial. The advantage of age lume for me is the brownish/yellowish tint compared to green of C3. Still the age lume would have weak lume power but I can live with that.


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## White Tuna

messenius said:


> Don't know about the C3 lume. I'm afraid that there would be too much going on with the colour palette: bezel red/blue, 24hr hand red, hour markers/hands gold (yellow) and the greenish lume of C3. Would it still look balanced, I'm not sure. But with BGW9 the hour markers might not be visible at a glance.
> 
> But do we know if the white dial is matt or glossy? If glossy then the matt lume could make enough contrast to the dial for easy reading. Another option is to use aged lume. The 'age' could be very mild and only to add contrast to the white dial. The advantage of age lume for me is the brownish/yellowish tint compared to green of C3. Still the age lume would have weak lume power but I can live with that.


I like the aged lume but there are enough people here that hate it that I am not going to fight it. I think it would be a deal killer for several. I view C3 as a compromise but I am not sure if the people who dislike the vintage/aged lume like C3 any more or less.


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## Thieuster

This watch was presented by the Dutch Horloge forum in 2011 as the Annual Limited Edition. I didn't buy one... I think you can guess why. Point is, it contains all sorts of details we're discussing now: red lettering, black lines around the lumen, aged lumen etc. Just feast your eyes - or not...

Menno

Image by Zoltar from horlogeforum.nl


----------



## messenius

Well the Steinhart lume is certainly not to my liking. Not an lume expert, but I think there are several options for the lume colour some of it might be called for aged lume but a bit more refined colour tone than on Steinhart. The Jaeger tribute to Memovox Deep Sea is a good example IMO (but then again the dial is black so it might not be a good reference point)


----------



## Watchamacallit

messenius said:


> Don't know about the C3 lume. I'm afraid that there would be too much going on with the colour palette &#8230;


Yes, depending on how much light my Kingston gets, the green glow of the C3 isn't exactly subtle. I suppose it would come close to this:


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## White Tuna

Watchamacallit said:


> Yes, depending on how much light my Kingston gets, the green glow of the C3 isn't exactly subtle. I suppose it would come close to this:


I like that lume on that white.


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## Thieuster

Perhaps this a thought: the aged lumen (like the Steinhart's) looks like the designer was (desperately) trying to mimic an old PanAm watch, where Bill is trying to echo a watch from an era long gone. (Pretty difficult strike the right chord in English - I hope you all get my drift).

Menno


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Thieuster said:


> Perhaps this a thought: the aged lumen (like the Steinhart's) looks like the designer was (desperately) trying to mimic an old PanAm watch, where Bill is trying to echo a watch from an era long gone. (Pretty difficult strike the right chord in English - I hope you all get my drift).
> 
> Menno


 :think: I think I understand what you are trying to get to....But, the Steinhart shown above has a lot of other design elements at work that combine with the lume choice to produce the full, final effect (whether it appeals to you, or not).

The thing I learned, and it really surprised me, was how different the lume color can look, depending on the brightness and color temperature of the ambient light, that the watch is seen (or photographed) in. :roll:


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

White Tuna said:


> I like that lume on that white.


That is the color I've been trying to capture - it has eluded me so far. I haven't been able to get it right. I think it may look surprisingly good when combined with the gold dial markings and hands - and now I agree...probably best not to have a dark outline around the hour markers between the gold and the white dial.....:think:


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## tmoris

the steinhart cases are all the same and this one is no exception. note how high it is on the inside (coming from the edge of the dial to the crystal).. you might not notice this in the beginning, but to me it is visually very annoying .. not to mention all the other stuff ..


----------



## Yao

Posted this pic in our Gallery. I will post some more detailed pics of the watch in the coming days. I ran out of time today to do it.








Caption: "Here is a pic of a white dialed Kingston we did as a prototype for the Project GMT. The watch in this pic is my wife's which she has been wearing for a little more than a year."


----------



## serdal23

Thieuster said:


> Great answers, Bill, thanks. I'm looking forward to see your next set of proposals/pictures.
> 
> Menno
> 
> EDIT: after posting, I noticed that this is my 1000th WUS posting! Nice to see that it involves the design of the Key West GMT.
> 
> M.


Congrats on your 1000th post, Menno.

Capt. Serdal


----------



## serdal23

It looks awesome!

Thanks for the fotos, Bill.

Capt. Serdal


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## messenius

That looks great. Can't wait to see more pictures

And at the same time the big question is what kind of lume did you use for the dial????



Yao said:


> View attachment 841940


----------



## tomr

Yao said:


> Posted this pic in our Gallery. I will post some more detailed pics of the watch in the coming days. I ran out of time today to do it.
> 
> View attachment 841940
> 
> Caption: "Here is a pic of a white dialed Kingston we did as a prototype for the Project GMT. The watch in this pic is my wife's which she has been wearing for a little more than a year."


Thanks for showing this prototype. I am curious, though, if there will be an alternative to the gilt hands and dial, as it's a considerable diversion from the original, and I wonder how it will look with a Pepsi bezel. While I appreciate my Kingston with its gilt, I think I might prefer the silver hands and white indices on the black dial for the GMT. The white-dialed version, however, might be a tougher call. Hopefully, we will see more mock-ups and prototypes to help with these decisions.


----------



## Cleans Up

Now that white dial is interesting! Very cool to see. I've been interested it the white dial from the beginning and it seems I'll have a tough choice ahead. I also wanted to echo the sentiment about about a silver vs gilt option. I usually don't go for gold tones at all, and the kingston has me rethinking this but i would like to know if there will be a non gilt option? I know it's early and that too many options can lead to delays so if I need to make up my mind it'd be nice to have the lead time 
thanks Bill


----------



## Packleader

tomr said:


> Thanks for showing this prototype. I am curious, though, if there will be an alternative to the gilt hands and dial, as it's a considerable diversion from the original, and I wonder how it will look with a Pepsi bezel. While I appreciate my Kingston with its gilt, I think I might prefer the silver hands and white indices on the black dial for the GMT. The white-dialed version, however, might be a tougher call. Hopefully, we will see more mock-ups and prototypes to help with these decisions.


I agree with the sentiment to keep the Key West as close a possible to the original GMT. I don't want aged lume, but whatever color the original lume was when the watches were new.

After looking at some pictures of the originals, I think I like a red and black bezel better than a red and blue bezel.

Here are some more pictures that we can use for reference --

_*1957 "Tropical Dial" GMT-Master:







*_

_*1962 Pan Am GMT-Master:*_









Picture credits to "A Continuous Lean".

And thanks to Bill for the mock-up.

Best wishes,
Packleader


----------



## Yao

Cleans Up said:


> Now that white dial is interesting! Very cool to see. I've been interested it the white dial from the beginning and it seems I'll have a tough choice ahead. I also wanted to echo the sentiment about about a silver vs gilt option. I usually don't go for gold tones at all, and the kingston has me rethinking this but i would like to know if there will be a non gilt option? I know it's early and that too many options can lead to delays so if I need to make up my mind it'd be nice to have the lead time
> thanks Bill


I hadn't really thought about it yet. However I had assumed that we would have to pick 2 out of the following 4 options:

* Gilt and black
* Silver and black
* Gilt and white
* Black printing and white paint

The first three options use a process similar to what was used on the Kingston. The Gilt/white option is slightly different which I will have to explain later this week.

P.S. Yes I haven't forgotten about the brown option but its not mentioned above because it wasn't part of the original pricing.


----------



## tmoris

this might be a bit early to discuss, but what are the bracelet options available? is the true panam an oyster or a jubillee or something else?


----------



## enkidu

I like the idea of silver and black. As a dressy cool option, the gilt and white looks simply amazing.


----------



## LaPeBe

Looks interesting. Will keep myself updated on this thread

Skickat från min GT-I9100 via Tapatalk 2


----------



## White Tuna

Yao said:


> I hadn't really thought about it yet. However I had assumed that we would have to pick 2 out of the following 4 options:
> 
> * Gilt and black
> * Silver and black
> * Gilt and white
> * Black printing and white paint
> 
> The first three options use a process similar to what was used on the Kingston. The Gilt/white option is slightly different which I will have to explain later this week.
> 
> P.S. Yes I haven't forgotten about the brown option but its not mentioned above because it wasn't part of the original pricing.


At this point I am much more in favor of the gilt over a printed black dial on the white face. However if there is a black metal/metalic that you can repeat the process with on the white face that could be interesting. I do not think there is a shiny black metal though.

Will you decide on the brown dial before the final ordering phase? Brown/Gilt would be my first choice by far.


----------



## Yao

White Tuna said:


> At this point I am much more in favor of the gilt over a printed black dial on the white face. However if there is a black metal/metalic that you can repeat the process with on the white face that could be interesting. I do not think there is a shiny black metal though.


I haven't gotten a clear answer on this from my supplier. Theoretically it can be done but if the black has to be laid down first it may make the white look dirty or gray.


----------



## White Tuna

Yao said:


> I haven't gotten a clear answer on this from my supplier. Theoretically it can be done but if the black has to be laid down first it may make the white look dirty or gray.


Thanks for the answer Bill! I would never have considered that. I am glad you are the one designing the watches!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Yao said:


> Posted this pic in our Gallery. I will post some more detailed pics of the watch in the coming days. I ran out of time today to do it.
> 
> View attachment 841940
> 
> Caption: "Here is a pic of a white dialed Kingston we did as a prototype for the Project GMT. The watch in this pic is my wife's which she has been wearing for a little more than a year."


 Oh....Bill. This is sweet.....Have you got any additional, larger pictures that you can post? 

What color is the lumen?

_*Thanks*_ for posting. If I had any lingering doubts about the *elegant appeal* of the *white/gilt dial*, they are _long gone._...

Thanks for posting....

More?

-Best....


----------



## giosdad

Yao said:


> Posted this pic in our Gallery. I will post some more detailed pics of the watch in the coming days. I ran out of time today to do it.
> 
> View attachment 841940
> 
> Caption: "Here is a pic of a white dialed Kingston we did as a prototype for the Project GMT. The watch in this pic is my wife's which she has been wearing for a little more than a year."


Bill,

I am so happy you posted this picture, if you know what I mean.


----------



## aviate

_*1957 "Tropical Dial" GMT-Master:

View attachment 842827
*_

_*1962 Pan Am GMT-Master:*_

View attachment 842829


Wow,

I can't believe how much difference there is between the two watches you posted. The 1957 model is just so much nicer to my eye although I can't really state why.


----------



## enkidu

aviate said:


> _*1957 "Tropical Dial" GMT-Master:
> 
> View attachment 842827
> *_
> 
> _*1962 Pan Am GMT-Master:*_
> 
> View attachment 842829
> 
> 
> Wow,
> 
> I can't believe how much difference there is between the two watches you posted. The 1957 model is just so much nicer to my eye although I can't really state why.


I think the 1957 dial has the GMT spaced hour markers which are just a hair closer to the center and larger than those on the 1962 dial. Note the difference in distance between the end of the hour hand and the 10 o'clock dot, also the difference in spacing between the three lines of writing and the 6 o'clock marker, also the GMT head clears the 5 o'clock marker on the 1957 dial while it overlaps on the 1962 dial. Great examples. Thanks!


----------



## Arthur

enkidu said:


> I think the 1957 dial has the GMT spaced hour markers which are just a hair closer to the center and larger than those on the 1962 dial. Note the difference in distance between the end of the hour hand and the 10 o'clock dot, also the difference in spacing between the three lines of writing and the 6 o'clock marker, also the GMT head clears the 5 o'clock marker on the 1957 dial while it overlaps on the 1962 dial. Great examples. Thanks!


Those are both beautiful examples of the 6542 and the early 1675 PCG (pointed Crown Guards). I agree with you about the dial, but I also believe that when you look at the 1675, it looks pretty much like all 1675's and early 16750's. Crown guards, same dial. The only difference would be the later 1675's had the bigger arrow on the GMT hand. I also think the larger ,closer in dial plots on the 6542 make a big difference. the only thing I would do with these two if I owned them both would be to swap the bracelets. I like the Oyster on the 6542 and the Jubilee on the 1675 better.


----------



## aviate

Arthur said:


> Those are both beautiful examples of the 6542 and the early 1675 PCG (pointed Crown Guards). I agree with you about the dial, but I also believe that when you look at the 1675, it looks pretty much like all 1675's and early 16750's. Crown guards, same dial. The only difference would be the later 1675's had the bigger arrow on the GMT hand. I also think the larger ,closer in dial plots on the 6542 make a big difference. the only thing I would do with these two if I owned them both would be to swap the bracelets. I like the Oyster on the 6542 and the Jubilee on the 1675 better.


Thanks to both Arthur and enkidu for their comments. Another aspect is the bezel design. The earlier watch's font and dark blue colour on the watch combine to give it a more vintage feel and set it apart from other homages and the 1675's and 16750's. This could serve to further individualize the Project GMT.


----------



## 66Cooper

I like the 57 for all those reasons posted above. Its have a much cleaner look. A one thing I really love is the GMT hand and where it falls on the dial. It goes past the hour marker and (should) just touch where the minute marker hits the minute-ring. I feel this helps separate the GMT hand so that it is pointing to the bezel. So, the hour, minute, second hands are all dealing with stuff from the hour markers in, while the GMT deals just outside and more to the bezel. Its slight but thats what I love about it.


----------



## JCW1980

This evening I was flipping through my copy of _Vintage Rolex Sports Models_ (Skeet & Urul, Ed.3, pg.61 - for those of you who have a copy and want to follow along ;-)) and ran across something interesting.

Apparently the cyclops was an optional feature rather than standard on the GMT Master 6542 until the early 60's. Don't know if that'll make any of you feel better about the probability of not having a cyclops on the Key West, but I thought it was worth mentioning. That's also the first time I've heard of an "option" being available on a Rolex (short of buying a different bracelet).

This book uses computer mockup dials on photographed cases (the effect is pretty realistic) for a visual of each variation, so there's a picture here that pretty much looks like what I imagine the black dial Key West will look like: gilt hands/indices/lume-surrounds, small GMT triangle, red date, no CG, no cyclops. I'm tempted to take a picture and post it, but I don't want to possibly run afoul of any forum copyright related rules. Here's a link to a pic I was able to find of one sans cyclops (sorry, it's a rough example...watch has got some serious character, but should give you an idea).


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## STEELINOX

Here's your image, JCW1980...

Its what I would want for a GMT...


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## White Tuna

I think I am liking the darker blue and red bezel a lot more now.


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## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> I think I am liking the darker blue and red bezel a lot more now.


Witha white dial = top marks !


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## JCW1980

STEELINOX said:


> Its what I would want for a GMT...


Originally I was dead set on the white dial, but over the last year of thinking about this project, I've become more and more unsure. I think once it's time to decide, I'm going to be leaning toward the black dial + pepsi bezel too. This pic is pretty dead on.


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## 66Cooper

Its going to be even harder then choosing my Kingston setup! Hehe


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## Arthur

I wouldn't put too much credence in Skeet & Urul!! If you ask most of the Vintage Rolex guys such as some of those over on the Vintage Rolex Forum, they will all pretty much agree that _Vintage Rolex Sport Models_ is filled with inaccuracies. I have one myself, and thought it was pretty darn good until I was severly chastised for quoting from the book!! I am and will always be a firm advocate of the cyclops. It makes the date much easier to read, especially for those of us with "old" eyes. Righht now as I type this, I'm wearing my old 1665 SeaDweller which doesn't have a cyclops, and the date is 2.5X smaller than my submariner or GMT, which makes it much harder to see especially in lower light situations.


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## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> I wouldn't put too much credence in Skeet & Urul!! If you ask most of the Vintage Rolex guys such as some of those over on the Vintage Rolex Forum, they will all pretty much agree that _Vintage Rolex Sport Models_ is filled with inaccuracies. I have one myself, and thought it was pretty darn good until I was severly chastised for quoting from the book!! I am and will always be a firm advocate of the cyclops. It makes the date much easier to read, especially for those of us with "old" eyes. Righht now as I type this, I'm wearing my old 1665 SeaDweller which doesn't have a cyclops, and the date is 2.5X smaller than my submariner or GMT, which makes it much harder to see especially in lower light situations.


I've worn this with 50 year old eyes without problem...


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## Arthur

STEELINOX said:


> I've worn this with 50 year old eyes without problem...


I can't dispute that some have and easier time with non-cyclops watches, My eyes are a few years older than yours(about 18) and I do have some problems with seeing smaller numbers. I do have several watches that don't have cyclops, Stingray, Kingston date, my SD,etc, so I do buy watches that don't have cyclops. My basic point is the Rolex GMT's which I believe the Key West is supposed to be a homage of , are all watches with cyclops. i would like to see the Key West kept as true to the original 6542 as possible without incurring the wrath of Rolex USA or SA. That's my only point.


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## JCW1980

Arthur said:


> I can't dispute that some have and easier time with non-cyclops watches, My eyes are a few years older than yours(about 18) and I do have some problems with seeing smaller numbers. I do have several watches that don't have cyclops, Stingray, Kingston date, my SD,etc, so I do buy watches that don't have cyclops. My basic point is the Rolex GMT's which I believe the Key West is supposed to be a homage of , are all watches with cyclops. i would like to see the Key West kept as true to the original 6542 as possible without incurring the wrath of Rolex USA or SA. That's my only point.


Certainly a valid point and concern. I personally wouldn't mind it either way. I'm definitely buying one whatever happens. ;-)


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## Thieuster

I tend to think along the same lines. Furthermore (and correct me when I'm wrong!) I'm under the impression that most (non-Rolex) cyclops are not of the '2.5x maginifying type': most only reach the 2x magnifying level. Now, that would be pushing the envelop when MKII installs a 2.5 cyclops!

Menno


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## 66Cooper

I think that if Bill get the font just right and the roulette date wheel (Red/black) everyone is going to want to stare at that as large as they can!!! Haha. I really like the cyclops and feel it was one of those elements that just makes a GMT but mostly that is because of these older models and that amazing roulette wheel. It seems silly (well, at lest if talking to non-watch peeps) that just a small thing could excited a person but I love it. I built a watch with a roulette wheel and actually started to only wear is on the days that the date was red because it just seems so much more special. With the proper and wonderful Rolex style open font, forget about it. I would be over the moon. Add in a gilt dial and I might stop seeing the world around me all together. Ha!!


----------



## TheDude

JCW1980 said:


> This evening I was flipping through my copy of _Vintage Rolex Sports Models_ (Skeet & Urul, Ed.3, pg.61 - for those of you who have a copy and want to follow along ;-)) and ran across something interesting.
> 
> Apparently the cyclops was an optional feature rather than standard on the GMT Master 6542 until the early 60's. Don't know if that'll make any of you feel better about the probability of not having a cyclops on the Key West, but I thought it was worth mentioning. That's also the first time I've heard of an "option" being available on a Rolex (short of buying a different bracelet).
> 
> This book uses computer mockup dials on photographed cases (the effect is pretty realistic) for a visual of each variation, so there's a picture here that pretty much looks like what I imagine the black dial Key West will look like: gilt hands/indices/lume-surrounds, small GMT triangle, red date, no CG, no cyclops. I'm tempted to take a picture and post it, but I don't want to possibly run afoul of any forum copyright related rules. Here's a link to a pic I was able to find of one sans cyclops (sorry, it's a rough example...watch has got some serious character, but should give you an idea).


Actually, most of the early tool Rolexes could be ordered with a different crystal. I only know this because the vintage crowd has researched and reported this to support crystal swaps (such as Sub Dates without cyclops).

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## JCW1980

TheDude said:


> Actually, most of the early tool Rolexes could be ordered with a different crystal. I only know this because the vintage crowd has researched and reported this to support crystal swaps (such as Sub Dates without cyclops).
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Nice, I've never heard that.

That's actually one of the reasons I like the SD so much...the lack of a cyclops. I get tired of seeing cyclopses sometimes. Feel like _every_ guy out there that wants a nice watch (and typically knows little to nothing about watches) and has a little money or a credit card...they all seem to go out and get a rolex sub.

That "everybody has one" stigma is one of the reasons that I have little interest in owning a rolex that isn't vintage, and one of the reasons I love MKII. Running into someone else wearing a MKII would be a treat...instead of cause for eye-rolling.

...sorry...that turned into a bit of a rant... :roll:


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## messenius

I really would like to see more pictures of the white/gilt dial (hint, hint Bill


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## TheDude

JCW1980 said:


> Nice, I've never heard that.
> 
> That's actually one of the reasons I like the SD so much...the lack of a cyclops. I get tired of seeing cyclopses sometimes. Feel like _every_ guy out there that wants a nice watch (and typically knows little to nothing about watches) and has a little money or a credit card...they all seem to go out and get a rolex sub.
> 
> That "everybody has one" stigma is one of the reasons that I have little interest in owning a rolex that isn't vintage, and one of the reasons I love MKII. Running into someone else wearing a MKII would be a treat...instead of cause for eye-rolling.
> 
> ...sorry...that turned into a bit of a rant... :roll:


Yeah, a 1680 and 1675 (I think) with domes...

















Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## JCW1980

TheDude said:


> Yeah, a 1680 and 1675 (I think) with domes...


Very, _Very _Cool! :-!

Love the domed acryllic! Not a huge fan of the top hat that you typically see on the 1680 (but that wouldnt stop me from wearing one ;-)).
Never seen a 1680 set up like that before...that's going on the list.


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## TheDude

JCW1980 said:


> Very, _Very _Cool! :-!
> 
> Love the domed acryllic! Not a huge fan of the top hat that you typically see on the 1680 (but that wouldnt stop me from wearing one ;-)).
> Never seen a 1680 set up like that before...that's going on the list.


Yeah, I love the top hat but I might do a tropic 19 on the next service. Just don't know if I want to have that configuration for ~5 years...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## 66Cooper

I have never owned a top hat watch but have always loved the look of them in the pix. Like a high dome, its something you just dont see everyday. I guess both will set a watch apart from the modern set.
When people notice my Kingston, the crystal is something that usually comes up. Mostly, this is from non-watch peeps as I just dont know any people that are as infected with this disease as we are. I tend to go with if a non-watch person takes notice of something, its usually a good thing and worth noting. I think the same would happen with a top hat crystal as well.

Oh, and I hear you on the Sub being the watch everybody buys that wants to feel important BUT the big difference is the bezel of the GMT. The Pepsi has always set it apart. 

The first real watch I bought when I got my first real job was a Rolex GMT 16710. I spent everything I had to buy is used and I simply adored the thing. I remember I received it just a day before I left to go run with the bulls in Spain. An epic watch for an epic trip. I wore it solid for at 5 years until I started to get into more watches and when it came time to buy I house, I sold it for some extra down payment. Wow, long story short (sorry about the misty eyed retelling of my lost love) people always seemed to notice the GMT...and like it. Not like you get with a Sub. The GMT is just different and enough to be cooler then the Sub. Like you arent trying that hard even though its a bit louder of a watch overall. I dont think its the cyclops that people will notice, its the bezel!


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## Chromejob

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I took a self-imposed intervention break from watch fanaticism after placing my general order for a Kingston last year ... apparently *Project Key West GMT* has progressed nicely (glad to see that name was used, too).

I'm confused as to plank orders and wait list orders. Was plank owners ordering opened and closed in January? I don't see an "orderding" thread in the forum (was watching from time to time this year).... Help needed in catching up (outside this thread, which will take hours to read). Links to read further appreciated.


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## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Yeah, that was kind of confusing. There is not a "wait list" per se, just a suggestion to make sure you're signed up for the MKII newsletter that comes out via email. You can take care of that at the MKII website.

There were 60 pre-order slots that filled up in a matter of days back in late January after a Bill put up a post announcing it. Bill has said that the Key West will be limited to 250 pieces, so accounting for the full pre-order, another 190 will become available later when the general ordering opens up. I emailed Bill about this a while back and he said that general order will probably open around the time that the pre-order watches are "close to or in the process" of being delivered, and he hopes that will take place sometime in 2013. Of course, if you're read as much on this forum as I have, you know that the best advice is 'just be patient.' I also suggest keeping a close eye on the forum; that's your best bet for seeing the general-order open up in a timely manner...when it happens, there will be posts about it. ;-)

That's the best info that I've got. If anyone knows anything more, or if I've misrepresented something, feel free to let us know.


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## diggitygiggitydan

Is there any chance this will be on a jubilee bracelet?

And I too would love to see a cyclops..


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## JCW1980

diggitygiggitydan said:


> Is there any chance this will be on a jubilee bracelet?


Great question. That has been brought up by someone else in this thread too; who knows, maybe. I'm sure it'll be addressed for popularity at some point during the design process, but I'm sure it would have to be a _very_ popular option for Bill to go to the trouble, especially sice the Kingston bracelet is the simplest avenue along with being period correct and very popular already.

Personally I prefer the oyster, but I'll tell you what though, if the jubilee becomes an option...I'd pay for both.


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## 66Cooper

Well, a jubilee will mean Bill with have to come up with the design and have it built. That will take even more time. Since the 6542 originally came on a riveted band, I would think that is what Bill was planning. Plus he has them designed and built already. Much like the Hardey Roma bands some have been putting on their Kingstons, I'd imagine there will be plenty of very nice, high quality jubilees's out there that will work. Then we have both options.

The way see it, Bill is only making 250 of these. There are already a million different options that people are looking for. I know all of them will not make the cut in the end and the more there are, the longer things take. I guess time will tell.


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## diggitygiggitydan

Very sensible responses, thank you!

I hated waving the opportunity to buy the Kingston when it was available. I have a Nassau on it's way next February.

But this watch has caught my full attention... When ordering opens, I will be buying. I love every detail of the GMT.


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## BigHaole

So...any guesses about what the schedule looks like for the GMT?


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## 66Cooper

I'm going to say its still a little early to say.


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## serdal23

Dear Comrades, I couldn't come across with any mock drawing of the Key West GMT. If I missed to see, I apologize. So, any drawing or any date for starting to build this run / batch? Any price at this point? Very Best Regards . . . Capt. Serdal


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## JCW1980

Malyel posted some great watch mock ups on the *how would you like the pan am to look* thread at post #241, and Bill posted his dial mock ups on *this thread* at post #118.

These mock ups make me salivate... Especially right now, since I'm out of the country on business...every time I look at my Kingston on this trip, I keep thinking how great the Key West is going to be.


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## TheDude

serdal23 said:


> Dear Comrades, I couldn't come across with any mock drawing of the Key West GMT. If I missed to see, I apologize. So, any drawing or any date for starting to build this run / batch? Any price at this point? Very Best Regards . . . Capt. Serdal


Build date unknown, but January marks one year since I put the deposit... Time is flying by. I don't recall the exact price but I think I put half which was $600 on $1200.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


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## MHe225

TheDude remembered correctly (close enough in my book):


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## White Tuna

I am notexpecting much movement on the Key West until the Project 300 starts getting delivered. Ihave no problem with that. Project 300 should be the priority at this time.

Really curious to see what that watch looks like delivered to the MKII faithful.


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## POR901

Any update on this thread for the coming new year?


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## MHe225

POR901 said:


> Any update on this thread for the coming new year?


:rodekaart Hey, you got your spot in the queue less than a week ago and you're already getting inpatient? :think:
Didn't the seller tell you that you have to wait at least 9 months before you're allowed to speak up?

:-d :-d :-d

Seriously now, participation in MKII Projects is an exercise in patience. Whenever Bill has news, he will post it promptly. We're anticipating a little more action / traffic / progress once Bill has finalized the Kingston run. I seem to recall something like that was mentioned ages ago, but I'm not perfectly clear on that. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

I like to be surprised / proven wrong, but I am not expecting to see Project GMT watches (being delivered) in 2013. Or P300 watches for that matter. Maybe in 2014.
With that said, welcome aboard, make yourself comfortable and enjoy the ride. ;-)

RonB


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## Arthur

MHe225 said:


> :rodekaart Hey, you got your spot in the queue less than a week ago and you're already getting inpatient? :think:
> Didn't the seller tell you that you have to wait at least 9 months before you're allowed to speak up?
> 
> :-d :-d :-d
> 
> Seriously now, participation in MKII Projects is an exercise in patience. Whenever Bill has news, he will post it promptly. We're anticipating a little more action / traffic / progress once Bill has finalized the Kingston run. I seem to recall something like that was mentioned ages ago, but I'm not perfectly clear on that. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.
> 
> I like to be surprised / proven wrong, but I am not expecting to see Project GMT watches (being delivered) in 2013. Or P300 watches for that matter. Maybe in 2014.
> With that said, welcome aboard, make yourself comfortable and enjoy the ride. ;-)
> 
> RonB


I have no idea as to when we will get and update, or see any progress, but in all fairness, i would expect that the Project 300 is going to have to get off the ground before the Key West takes off. I didn't realize, but someone posted that the Project 300 folks have had deposits down for 30+ months.


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## POR901

MHe225 said:


> :rodekaart Hey, you got your spot in the queue less than a week ago and you're already getting inpatient? :think:
> Didn't the seller tell you that you have to wait at least 9 months before you're allowed to speak up?
> 
> :-d :-d :-d
> 
> Seriously now, participation in MKII Projects is an exercise in patience. Whenever Bill has news, he will post it promptly. We're anticipating a little more action / traffic / progress once Bill has finalized the Kingston run. I seem to recall something like that was mentioned ages ago, but I'm not perfectly clear on that. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.
> 
> I like to be surprised / proven wrong, but I am not expecting to see Project GMT watches (being delivered) in 2013. Or P300 watches for that matter. Maybe in 2014.
> With that said, welcome aboard, make yourself comfortable and enjoy the ride. ;-)
> 
> RonB


ha....I'd be happy with 2014! I'm looking forward to the loooonnnngggg ride.


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## POR901

Happy New Year to everyone.

While surfing the net over the Holiday I ran across several photos of the GMT watches that Ken Sato put together back in the +/-90's. Some of the details look pretty good.....like the dial colors (black & white), crown size (7 or 8mm), bezel color, hour marker spacing, etc. I really like the look of the acrylic bezel.....is this still a possibility for the Key West?


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## JCW1980

Happy New Year back to you!

Those are pretty! Man, the Key West is gonna look good!! 



POR901 said:


> Happy New Year to everyone.
> 
> While surfing the net over the Holiday I ran across several photos of the GMT watches that Ken Sato put together back in the +/-90's. Some of the details look pretty good.....like the dial colors (black & white), crown size (7 or 8mm), bezel color, hour marker spacing, etc. I really like the look of the acrylic bezel.....is this still a possibility for the Key West?


----------



## cpotters

POR901 said:


> ....like the dial colors (black & white), crown size (7 or 8mm), bezel color, hour marker spacing, etc. I really like the look of the acrylic bezel.....is this still a possibility for the Key West?


I think another nice detail is that the cyclops has at least a 2x or 2.5x magnification, and you can tell just by looking at the numbers. I doubt Bill will go with the acrylic because it is subject to the same drawbacks as the original bakelite bezels from the fifties. If it it not cost prohibitive he may lean towards a sapphire bezel - ideally with lume in the nemerals, but that's up to him.


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## STEELINOX

cpotters said:


> I think another nice detail is that the cyclops has at least a 2x or 2.5x magnification, and you can tell just by looking at the numbers. I doubt Bill will go with the acrylic because it is subject to the same drawbacks as the original bakelite bezels from the fifties. If it it not cost prohibitive he may *lean towards a sapphire bezel - ideally with lume in the nemerals*, but that's up to him.


I hope he keeps it to a simple anodized ring !


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## 66Cooper

Last I heard, he was saying aluminum insert with no lume. At the time, he said the sapphire bezel was too tricky or expensive or something along those lines.

I owned one of Ken Sato's Comex homage watches a few years back. It was the one that combined just about every "cool" aspect from Rolex's history. A bit mu h for most but it was pretty cool. Let it go to fund another watch...as is the way. I never saw his GMT's though. REally cool. Not a huge fan of the brilliant white dial though. Would look nicer with a slight cream coloring to it or at least some contrast with the lume.

That is going to be the hardest part about this project. Choosing between what color dial!


----------



## POR901

Here's a couple of photos of a 6542 that just came up for sale.....it has some very cool details.


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## gman54

I'm not a fan of a cyclops; however, the magnification on those watches are great! Perfect for the KW.

I am a big fan of lumed sapphire bezels like the one on my Paradive. My eyes are immediately drawn to the bezel when I look at the watch; which is good because I use the bezel for time. But I don't want one on the KW. In my opinion it would overshadow the entire piece. I want the center of the dial to be the main focal point on the KW so that my eyes see the entire head. Does that make sense or am I rambling in tongues?

gman


----------



## cpotters

POR901 said:


> Here's a couple of photos of a 6542 that just came up for sale.....it has some very cool details.


OK! What the h#@% is THAT! I have never seen or heard of that bezel before, but LOVE the way that looks. I'm not saying that's for the KW, but I have to ask: is that a legitimate R*L*X bezel, or some fantasy creation??? Anybody?


----------



## curt941

Bakelite YO!


----------



## 66Cooper

cpotters said:


> OK! What the h#@% is THAT! I have never seen or heard of that bezel before, but LOVE the way that looks. I'm not saying that's for the KW, but I have to ask: is that a legitimate R*L*X bezel, or some fantasy creation??? Anybody?


That is just a standard 6542 bakelite bezel that has had some wear and tear. I would say that the discoloration that makes up that strange whitish ring is due from water damage.

All I know is that these 6542's were damn amazing watches. Then and now! I mean, they only just started luming bezel in recent years. Can you imagine how unbelievably cool this would have been back in the day?


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## TheDude

I have been pretty vocal from the start that I don't care about the bezel material or the lume. The important things as far as I am concerned is getting the font and the colors right. It needs to be as accurate as the Kingston and Nassau are to the watches that inspired them. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## curt941

If anyone wants to get out of their slot, please let me know. Money was tight when the pre-order opened and i'm hoping to get in on this.


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## JCW1980

TheDude said:


> ...The important things as far as I am concerned is getting the font and the colors right. It needs to be as accurate as the Kingston and Nassau are to the watches that inspired them.


+1

That bakelite does look sweet, and the idea of a modernized sapphire version that's been thown around throughout this design process would doubtless look very cool, but I'm not sure I'd even prefer it over an aluminum insert similar to the Kingston's. Take into account the increased development time and expense that the sapphire insert would add to the process, and it gets me leaning toward the aluminum.


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## BigHaole

JCW1980 said:


> +1
> 
> That bakelite does look sweet, and the idea of a modernized sapphire version that's been thown around throughout this design process would doubtless look very cool, but I'm not sure I'd even prefer it over an aluminum insert similar to the Kingston's. Take into account the increased development time and expense that the sapphire insert would add to the process, and it gets me leaning toward the aluminum.


I'm feeling the opposite way. I think a sapphire bezel would be a perfect fit for MKII's vision of being a new iteration of a classic tool, and I'd be willing to wait a little longer and pay a little more for it. But, if the decision is for aluminum, it certainly won't drive me away (though I hope it comes with multiple aluminum bezel options, in that case).


----------



## curt941

I don't understand why people think it would take a long time to develop. Tons of micro brands have watches with sapphire bezels, Helson, Raven, Zenton, Ocean7 and some more i'm sure.

Ocean7 even has a GMT with a bubbled sapphire insert that looks a lot like the pan-am gmt bakelite bezel


----------



## rmasso

curt941 said:


> I don't understand why people think it would take a long time to develop. Tons of micro brands have watches with sapphire bezels, Helson, Raven, Zenton, Ocean7 and some more i'm sure.
> 
> Ocean7 even has a GMT with a bubbled sapphire insert that looks a lot like the pan-am gmt bakelite bezel


Nice...


----------



## 66Cooper

Maybe things have changed but originally bill was not for it. I hope that isn't the case anymore as that is exactly what I think will look great. Matched with the right vintage style of the pan am.


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> Maybe things have changed but originally bill was not for it. I hope that isn't the case anymore as that is exactly what I think will look great. Matched with the right vintage style of the pan am.


If I remember correctly, I think what Bill said was something like we should plan on it being aluminum, but if he makes progress on sapphire, he might switch. That's how I'm viewing it. I wouldn't leave the project, if it's aluminum, but I would enjoy it much more if it is to be sapphire.


----------



## White Tuna

curt941 said:


> I don't understand why people think it would take a long time to develop. Tons of micro brands have watches with sapphire bezels, Helson, Raven, Zenton, Ocean7 and some more i'm sure.
> 
> Ocean7 even has a GMT with a bubbled sapphire insert that looks a lot like the pan-am gmt bakelite bezel


I actually like the darker blue and red on this bezel. After seeing the Kingston's aluminum bezel I think I am fine with a more robust aluminum....especially considering we may not have access to all the parts in 20 years.


----------



## Neily_San

BigHaole said:


> I think a sapphire bezel would be a perfect fit for MKII's vision [and] I'd be willing to wait a little longer and pay a little more for it. But, if the decision is for aluminum, it certainly won't drive me away.


+1 on this view that sapphire would look great, yet aluminium would be fine.

Neily


----------



## Arthur

White Tuna said:


> I actually like the darker blue and red on this bezel. After seeing the Kingston's aluminum bezel I think I am fine with a more robust aluminum....especially considering we may not have access to all the parts in 20 years.


i have this watch. It's a very nice piece, at a very compretetive price. ETA 2893-2 movement and that sapphire bezel insert w/ lumed numbers. The only thing i don't particu;larly care for are the hands. I have never been a big fan of sword hands. In fact I have toyed with hte idea of sending mine off to see if the hands could be swapped for Mercedes hands.


----------



## White Tuna

Arthur said:


> i have this watch. It's a very nice piece, at a very compretetive price. ETA 2893-2 movement and that sapphire bezel insert w/ lumed numbers. The only thing i don't particu;larly care for are the hands. I have never been a big fan of sword hands. In fact I have toyed with hte idea of sending mine off to see if the hands could be swapped for Mercedes hands.


UPDATE: Post deleted. I am an idiot!


----------



## White Tuna

Arthur said:


> i have this watch. It's a very nice piece, at a very compretetive price. ETA 2893-2 movement and that sapphire bezel insert w/ lumed numbers. The only thing i don't particu;larly care for are the hands. I have never been a big fan of sword hands. In fact I have toyed with hte idea of sending mine off to see if the hands could be swapped for Mercedes hands.


I think I like where the date window is? Do you like it? Even though I like sword hands the hands seem slightly out of place on this watch. Also I am not a huge fan of the tip of these sword hands not being lumed. That bezel is killer!


----------



## Arthur

White Tuna said:


> I think I like where the date window is? Do you like it? Even though I like sword hands the hands seem slightly out of place on this watch. Also I am not a huge fan of the tip of these sword hands not being lumed. That bezel is killer!


The date window is OK, i would prefer a bigger date at 3 with a cyclops, just because my old eyes sometimes have a hard time reading the date under certan lighting conditions. i agree about the hands. It seems as though Ocean7 sort of goes it's own way with design, which is fine. Rick puts together a watch that he likes and one that has some inoput from forum members, but he is not necressarily trying to create a homage, although the LM-7 is pretty darn close to the Omega Ploprof.

As i said before, I think this watch would better with Mercedes hands. Another thing, the lume on the hands is good, but it's a little weak on the indices, si if i decide to change hands, I'm going to get the dial and hands relumed.


----------



## TheDude

To me, the Ocean 7 looks like the modern Blancpain Fifty Fathoms.

Other than having a lumed sapphire pepsi bezel, it's kinda unrelated to this design.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Chromejob

I believe the point of the pic was the bezel. Steinhart 's Ocean 44 also has a sapphire bezel.


----------



## TheDude

Chromejob said:


> I believe the point of the pic was the bezel. Steinhart 's Ocean 44 also has a sapphire bezel.


Exactly. The problem is, we had people commenting on the sword hands and the position of the date window and for a moment things were veering off.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Chromejob

* [tongue in cheek] *  Some people get lost, forget what thread they're in. Like walking into a titty bar and asking where the frozen foods section is.... 
[/tongue in cheek]


----------



## White Tuna

On a watch fan site I think it is safe to assume people may speak of every watch of any picture of a watch posted no matter what the topic of the thread is. So people may want to lighten up a little.


----------



## Lemper

White Tuna said:


> On a watch fan site I think it is safe to assume people may speak of every watch of any picture of a watch posted no matter what the topic of the thread is. So people may want to lighten up a little.


Yeah, this, no need to take things too seriously.


----------



## Yao

At the moment I trying to cross the last few "t's" and dot the last "i's" so that we can get the case bodies into mass production. When I get that done I will return to the design of the dial, hands, and bezel.


----------



## andiem

Great news!

---

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2


----------



## STEELINOX

Yao said:


> At the moment I trying to cross the last few "t's" and dot the last "i's" so that we can get the case bodies into mass production. When I get that done I will return to the design of the dial, hands, and bezel.


Giddy up, Bill !


----------



## 66Cooper

Great to hear bill.


----------



## White Tuna

How about some brown sugar GMT love? 
View attachment 1018136


----------



## Yao

BigHaole said:


> I'm feeling the opposite way. I think a sapphire bezel would be a perfect fit for MKII's vision of being a new iteration of a classic tool, and I'd be willing to wait a little longer and pay a little more for it. But, if the decision is for aluminum, it certainly won't drive me away (though I hope it comes with multiple aluminum bezel options, in that case).





curt941 said:


> I don't understand why people think it would take a long time to develop. Tons of micro brands have watches with sapphire bezels, Helson, Raven, Zenton, Ocean7 and some more i'm sure.
> 
> Ocean7 even has a GMT with a bubbled sapphire insert that looks a lot like the pan-am gmt bakelite bezel


I thought I should take the time to answer the issue raised.

There are several important challenges and differences between what has been done and what we would like to do with a sapphire insert on the Project GMT:

* There is an important and crucial difference between the doing a flat sapphire insert and a sloped sapphire insert. 
* There is also a crucial difference in that we are the first company to offer a lumed sloped insert. The Steinhart version is sapphire but not lumed. A lumed and sloped insert is very difficult to manufacture.
* There is also a very big difference in designing a bezel with a bezel insert that is fully supported by the bezel (like in all of the examples cited) and one that is only partially supported by the bezel. As you could see on the Bakelite version the bezel insert is only partially supported by the bezel itself. This can lead to wear on the underside and also increases the possibility of water damage with age. To keep the look we would have to do a bezel that is only partially supporting the insert.
* I have a construction in mind but it is not going to be easy and it requires a lot of manual assembly. So it won't be just "a little more expensive" for me to do it. The luminous material itself is going to cost more than 25% of what other companies spent on the their entire cases and it doesn't include the labor or application to the sapphire section.

And on top of all that I don't want to run into problems with deliveries like we did with the Kingston and the Kingston didn't have nearly as complicated a construction as a sapphire bezel would entail.


----------



## Thieuster

Thanks for explaning this. I appriciate that.

Please, take your time to figure out what will work or not. Over the years, you always came up with amazing features. 

Just my vote of confidence.

have a great weekend.

Menno


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Thank You, Bill. 

I seem to recall that you had explained this previously, but it is nice to see all of the issues listed in one place again, with a thorough explanation. 

-Best-


----------



## kkmark

I read Bill's reply today re: the sapphire bezel insert and all I wanted to take away was "... I have a construction in mind..." Sapphire bezel insert = cool.


----------



## TheDude

Yao said:


> I thought I should take the time to answer the issue raised.
> 
> There are several important challenges and differences between what has been done and what we would like to do with a sapphire insert on the Project GMT:
> 
> * There is an important and crucial difference between the doing a flat sapphire insert and a sloped sapphire insert.
> * There is also a crucial difference in that we are the first company to offer a lumed sloped insert. The Steinhart version is sapphire but not lumed. A lumed and sloped insert is very difficult to manufacture.
> * There is also a very big difference in designing a bezel with a bezel insert that is fully supported by the bezel (like in all of the examples cited) and one that is only partially supported by the bezel. As you could see on the Bakelite version the bezel insert is only partially supported by the bezel itself. This can lead to wear on the underside and also increases the possibility of water damage with age. To keep the look we would have to do a bezel that is only partially supporting the insert.
> * I have a construction in mind but it is not going to be easy and it requires a lot of manual assembly. So it won't be just "a little more expensive" for me to do it. The luminous material itself is going to cost more than 25% of what other companies spent on the their entire cases and it doesn't include the labor or application to the sapphire section.
> 
> And on top of all that I don't want to run into problems with deliveries like we did with the Kingston and the Kingston didn't have nearly as complicated a construction as a sapphire bezel would entail.


I am still fine with the aluminum you suggested two years ago at the NYC GTG.

As I have stated before, font and color accuracy are the paramount concerns for me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> I am still fine with the aluminum you suggested two years ago at the NYC GTG.
> 
> As I have stated before, font and color accuracy are the paramount concerns for me.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


I agree with TheDude. I REALLY love the aluminum bezel on the Kingston so I would not have a problem with it on any MKII watch. As usual he is spot on about the color and the font as well.


----------



## curt941

Bill, I understand what you're saying about the semi-supported bezel insert.

You end up with a worn bezel like this one:

View attachment 1018872


What if you had a very thin piece of metal bonded to the underside of the insert post luming, this would serve to protect the paint on the bottom of the insert.



Yao said:


> I thought I should take the time to answer the issue raised.
> 
> There are several important challenges and differences between what has been done and what we would like to do with a sapphire insert on the Project GMT:
> 
> * There is an important and crucial difference between the doing a flat sapphire insert and a sloped sapphire insert.
> * There is also a crucial difference in that we are the first company to offer a lumed sloped insert. The Steinhart version is sapphire but not lumed. A lumed and sloped insert is very difficult to manufacture.
> * There is also a very big difference in designing a bezel with a bezel insert that is fully supported by the bezel (like in all of the examples cited) and one that is only partially supported by the bezel. As you could see on the Bakelite version the bezel insert is only partially supported by the bezel itself. This can lead to wear on the underside and also increases the possibility of water damage with age. To keep the look we would have to do a bezel that is only partially supporting the insert.
> * I have a construction in mind but it is not going to be easy and it requires a lot of manual assembly. So it won't be just "a little more expensive" for me to do it. The luminous material itself is going to cost more than 25% of what other companies spent on the their entire cases and it doesn't include the labor or application to the sapphire section.
> 
> And on top of all that I don't want to run into problems with deliveries like we did with the Kingston and the Kingston didn't have nearly as complicated a construction as a sapphire bezel would entail.


----------



## STEELINOX

curt941 said:


> Bill, I understand what you're saying about the semi-supported bezel insert.
> 
> You end up with a worn bezel like this one:
> 
> View attachment 1018872
> 
> 
> What if you had a very thin piece of metal bonded to the underside of the insert post luming, this would serve to protect the paint on the bottom of the insert.


And what if that_ thin piece of metal_ also did double duty as an "aperture" for the luminous material that is applied directly to the main bezel ring...

[The main bezel ring gets luminous paint applied directly to corresponding marker points...]

The main bezel ring fully supports the insert assy and protects it too from lateral impacts...

The _thin piece of metal _could be wire cut [edm] and windows for the markers cut during the same process, and later anodized, half red and half blue?

Its then glued to the main bezel then on top of that the sapphire is UV glued to the _thin piece of metal _as well as opposite the leading edge [near coin edge] of the main bezel?


----------



## tmr5555

This is a good idea, not sure if applicable, but a good idea never the less.


----------



## dwg

worn bezel may not be so bad..

I've just seen a 1988 black/red Rolex 16760 GMT Master II for sale at mwrforum (no connection
I love, how the red bezel is slightly fading.. it's possibly the best Rolex I've ever seen


----------



## TheDude

dwg said:


> worn bezel may not be so bad..
> 
> I've just seen a 1988 black/red Rolex 16760 GMT Master II for sale at mwrforum (no connection
> I love, how the red bezel is slightly fading.. it's possibly the best Rolex I've ever seen


Faded inserts fetch a premium that's for sure.

It's interesting, a lot of what people are asking for is artificial aging. That's what the brown tropical dials were too. We got pretty strong anti-patina opinions for the lume, but I think this should be on the table as well if we're talking about the other fake aging stuff...

Here's a nice older GMT showing both faded insert and some nice patina on the lume.

View attachment 1021958


Fwiw I don't think we should artificially age inserts and dials from the factory.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


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## dwg

TheDude said:


> Fwiw I don't think we should artificially age inserts and dials from the factory.


agreed.. that would be a bit to much  But it is an interesting topic - Pentax recently made a camera with brass body, where you can expect some patina and scratches soon.

View attachment 1022012


I won't be surprised, if some watch manufacturer used a similar idea.


----------



## White Tuna

I have no problems with the "vintage" lume but I do not like the idea of an artificially distressed watch. 

But I really doubt Bill would do that anyway.


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## dwg

White Tuna said:


> I have no problems with the "vintage" lume but I do not like the idea of an artificially distressed watch.
> 
> But I really doubt Bill would do that anyway.


I actually hate, what they did with the camera and do not support anything like that done to the GMT either. I feel there is too much "vintage" in the air lately.

for me it's just about making things in a way, they would take the time nicely - like that gmt rolex above.


----------



## Arthur

dwg said:


> I actually hate, what they did with the camera and do not support anything like that done to the GMT either. I feel there is too much "vintage" in the air lately.
> 
> for me it's just about making things in a way, they would take the time nicely - like that gmt rolex above.


Patina should be the result of natural aging. buy a watch, wear the watch, you will get patina, not from bleaching an insert or putting a dial in an oven, but from wear, sun exposure and all the other things that cause a watch to "age" 
i totally agree, the emphasis on vintage, looking liker the watch had been dug up after being buried in a creek bed for 40 years doesn't turn me on at all. I'm not particulat about a watch looking like it has been in a safe for 40 years, but I would prefer that to the excess patina I see on a lot of watches. I probably won't live long enough to naturally age my Kingstons or Key West, but I'll pass them on and my son can carry on the process!!


----------



## White Tuna

dwg said:


> I actually hate, what they did with the camera and do not support anything like that done to the GMT either. I feel there is too much "vintage" in the air lately.
> 
> for me it's just about making things in a way, they would take the time nicely - like that gmt rolex above.


When times get rough nostalgia sells. With the economy hopefully getting better the pre-distressed look will probably pass out of fashion.


----------



## Yao

STEELINOX said:


> And what if that_ thin piece of metal_ also did double duty as an "aperture" for the luminous material that is applied directly to the main bezel ring...
> 
> [The main bezel ring gets luminous paint applied directly to corresponding marker points...]
> 
> The main bezel ring fully supports the insert assy and protects it too from lateral impacts...
> 
> The _thin piece of metal _could be wire cut [edm] and windows for the markers cut during the same process, and later anodized, half red and half blue?
> 
> Its then glued to the main bezel then on top of that the sapphire is UV glued to the _thin piece of metal _as well as opposite the leading edge [near coin edge] of the main bezel?


I don't want to sound dismissive as I do appreciate the thought you have put into this. The real issue is space, there just isn't enough space available for this type of construction. I have an idea but I need to talk it over with one of my suppliers while I am Basel.


----------



## Yao

curt941 said:


> Bill, I understand what you're saying about the semi-supported bezel insert.
> 
> You end up with a worn bezel like this one:
> 
> What if you had a very thin piece of metal bonded to the underside of the insert post luming, this would serve to protect the paint on the bottom of the insert.


The construction I have in mind would help protect the underside of the bezel but unfortunately I am not sure this specific idea would actually work given the space that is available.


----------



## Neily_San

Arthur said:


> Patina should be the result of natural aging. buy a watch, wear the watch, you will get patina


I 100% agree. Patina is the result of a natural process. I hope and trust Bill will resist ANY artificial treatment of the watch.


----------



## TheDude

Yes, patina is part of the aging process, and for everything but lume this will happen. Modern day lume will not discolor ever, so you're seeing reputable major manufacturers doing tastefully aged tint to the lume. 

I also hate the homage crowd that bangs and grinds cases, destroys dials and hands, heaps mountains of lume on plots... all in a misguided attempt to make a watch look "vintage". 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Chromejob

TheDude said:


> Faded inserts fetch a premium that's for sure.
> 
> It's interesting, a lot of what people are asking for is artificial aging. That's what the brown tropical dials were too. We got pretty strong anti-patina opinions for the lume, but I think this should be on the table as well if we're talking about the other fake aging stuff...
> 
> Fwiw I don't think we should artificially age inserts and dials from the factory.


I can't agree enough. I really hate "fake aging." I think the "antique lume" on Steinhart's Ocean Vintage Military looks inauthentic and goofy, like ecru underwear. Or grandma panties.



TheDude said:


> Yes, patina is part of the aging process, and for everything but lume this will happen. Modern day lume will not discolor ever, so you're seeing reputable major manufacturers doing tastefully aged tint to the lume.
> 
> I also hate the homage crowd that bangs and grinds cases, destroys dials and hands, heaps mountains of lume on plots... all in a misguided attempt to make a watch look "vintage".


Agreed. Likewise I think it makes it look worse that these don't look new, but are clearly "fake old." The vogue for simulating bad restoration is just misguided. Doesn't look right in any context.

Joan Rivers Effect.


----------



## rmasso

TheDude said:


> Modern day lume will not discolor ever, so you're seeing reputable major manufacturers doing tastefully aged tint to the lume.


If by tastefully aged lume you mean the sort of color of aged lume, i think this is OK provided they don't make it look aged but just the tint of color. I have a new Seiko diver that does this well and I think I have seen a JLC diver done that way too which is an homage to its original self. That I am OK with because that color of lume looks nice.
Rich


----------



## TheDude

rmasso said:


> If by tastefully aged lume you mean the sort of color of aged lume, i think this is OK provided they don't make it look aged but just the tint of color. I have a new Seiko diver that does this well and I think I have seen a JLC diver done that way too which is an homage to its original self. That I am OK with because that color of lume looks nice.
> Rich


I am thinking of the Panerai "dirty dials". I have one and it's uber tasteful. Best fake patina imo. I have previously voiced my opinion on this, I like the idea of this as an option.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Yao

TheDude said:


> I am thinking of the Panerai "dirty dials". I have one and it's uber tasteful. Best fake patina imo. I have previously voiced my opinion on this, I like the idea of this as an option.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


Can you post or re-post a pic of this model?


----------



## TheDude

Yao said:


> Can you post or re-post a pic of this model?


I have the Pam 359 but there are probably 2 dozen models now with the dirty dial. You can see tons of them by doing a Google image search on "Panerai dirty dials".

This is mine. It looks lighter and darker depending on the ambient lighting...




























Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> I have the Pam 359 but there are probably 2 dozen models now with the dirty dial. You can see tons of them by doing a Google image search on "Panerai dirty dials".
> 
> This is mine. It looks lighter and darker depending on the ambient lighting...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


I love that. I have no problem with the vintage lume color, because at the end of the day it is just a color choice. I am a sucker for C3 though.......


----------



## JFingers

Whatever you experts choose is fine by me, I just need to get on the list! A GMT is going to be the only thing that can get this Kingston off my wrist, there is no doubt in my mind about that. I have bought a couple watches since owning my Kingston and all they do are gather dust.


----------



## rmasso

TheDude said:


> I have the Pam 359 but there are probably 2 dozen models now with the dirty dial. You can see tons of them by doing a Google image search on "Panerai dirty dials".
> 
> This is mine. It looks lighter and darker depending on the ambient lighting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


Thats a nice color. 
Rich


----------



## rmasso

View attachment 1024170

This is the Seiko i was talking about in my earlier post. 
Not my photo but i own this Seiko. 
Note the color of the lume. That sold me on it.

The photo below is mine. Depending on the lighting the color can look a bit different but still in that beige/cream color range. 
View attachment 1024179

Rich


----------



## kkmark

No "vintage" lume for the Key West please...just white...or green depending on options. I know the lume (one white, one green) on my Kingstons will never age/discolor but I don't need them to.

Adding the look of "wear" to a watch/dial/hands - some like it, some don't - but not on these new Mk II's please.


----------



## Arthur

I don't have a problem with lume that has been colored slightly to a more creamy -off white color. What I do have a problem with are watches that have been taken apart and the cases put in a coffee can full of nuts, bolts coins, etc.. and then shaken vigorously until the case looks like it's a hundred years old, baking a dial in the oven to achieve a "tropical" look, aging hands in salt water, dipping inserts in bleach etc.. all these are techniques that various homage modders employ to artificially age a watch. I also suspect that some of the sellers of vintage Rolex parts also engage in some of these same tactics from time to time. A tropic 1680 Sub dial will bring 2-3X the price of a similar series black dial. Same with inserts. Sort of funny, several years ago, a faded insert wasn't worth scrap, as no one wanted them, but now, everyone wants their 1665 SeaDweller to look as though it was worn by a commercial diver for 30 years or their 1675 GMT look like it was marooned on a beach in the South Pacific for several decades when in fact they probably either sat in a safe, or was worn to work every day by a banker, doctor or insurance salesman!! Of course if in fact it was worn to work every day, it would have a nice gentle aged patina, not look like it was in a train wreck.

Here is my 16750 it's a 1986 model, and the patina is all from wear. It has a beautiful aged bezel insert, and the band has some stretch, but it's all natural.

View attachment 1024380


----------



## TheDude

Not white balanced properly but you get the idea... I will try to post a better picture for comparison soon.

View attachment 1024402


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TheDude

rmasso said:


> View attachment 1024170
> 
> This is the Seiko i was talking about in my earlier post.
> Not my photo but i own this Seiko.
> Note the color of the lume. That sold me on it.
> 
> The photo below is mine. Depending on the lighting the color can look a bit different but still in that beige/cream color range.
> View attachment 1024179
> 
> Rich


Nice. Yeah, this kind of thing seems to be dependent on the amount of ambient light. With mine the lume looks darker in dim light.










Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Chromejob

TheDude said:


> ... You can see tons of them by doing a Google image search on "Panerai dirty dials"....


Somehow I foresee this returning a deluge of ujod 

Pics seem to be illustrating either a off-white,[1] cream color, or faded lemongrass. I'm okay with either, favoring cream. It's the overt GREEN or dirty ecru that put me off. Dingy or moldy looking, no thanks. Make sense?

[1] You used to see the color "winter white" regularly.


----------



## TheDude

Arthur said:


> I don't have a problem with lume that has been colored slightly to a more creamy -off white color. What I do have a problem with are watches that have been taken apart and the cases put in a coffee can full of nuts, bolts coins, etc.. and then shaken vigorously until the case looks like it's a hundred years old, baking a dial in the oven to achieve a "tropical" look, aging hands in salt water, dipping inserts in bleach etc.. all these are techniques that various homage modders employ to artificially age a watch. I also suspect that some of the sellers of vintage Rolex parts also engage in some of these same tactics from time to time. A tropic 1680 Sub dial will bring 2-3X the price of a similar series black dial. Same with inserts. Sort of funny, several years ago, a faded insert wasn't worth scrap, as no one wanted them, but now, everyone wants their 1665 SeaDweller to look as though it was worn by a commercial diver for 30 years or their 1675 GMT look like it was marooned on a beach in the South Pacific for several decades when in fact they probably either sat in a safe, or was worn to work every day by a banker, doctor or insurance salesman!! Of course if in fact it was worn to work every day, it would have a nice gentle aged patina, not look like it was in a train wreck.
> 
> Here is my 16750 it's a 1986 model, and the patina is all from wear. It has a beautiful aged bezel insert, and the band has some stretch, but it's all natural.
> 
> View attachment 1024380


Yes! That's a gorgeous tritium dial. Exactly what it should look like from the 80s. Unfortunately, modern luminova dials will never discolor that way. That's very similar to the Panerai shade however...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


----------



## tmoris

that pam/coffee pic is just great, I think this colour should definitely be in for a vote/poll later on when deciding the final features/tunings, should it not win right out here


----------



## JCW1980

tmoris said:


> that pam/coffee pic is just great, I think this colour should definitely be in for a vote/poll later on when deciding the final features/tunings, should it not win right out here


+1

I would be up for a lume color like this as an option. The slight cream tint on that fiddy is super attractive (IMHO).


----------



## BigHaole

JCW1980 said:


> +1
> 
> I would be up for a lume color like this as an option. The slight cream tint on that fiddy is super attractive (IMHO).


I agree that the cream lume on the Pam is awesome, but that's against a black dial (or is that slightly darker black?). How will it look against the white dial that many of us are planning on getting?

Which brings me back to my hope that there will be a generally available version of the Key West that is named the "Havana" and that has a dark black dial and the cream lume (and root beer bezel). That would be the perfect bookend to this project! (and would get me buying two watches, much to Mrs. BigHaole's chagrin)


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> I agree that the cream lume on the Pam is awesome, but that's against a black dial (or is that slightly darker black?). How will it look against the white dial that many of us are planning on getting?
> 
> Which brings me back to my hope that there will be a generally available version of the Key West that is named the "Havana" and that has a dark black dial and the cream lume (and root beer bezel). That would be the perfect bookend to this project! (and would get me buying two watches, much to Mrs. BigHaole's chagrin)


I got this from the roro on the RolexForums:


----------



## White Tuna

TimeZone : TZ Showcase » FS : Rolex 16550 R3-serial White Dial Patina Markers Explorer II


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> TimeZone : TZ Showcase » FS : Rolex 16550 R3-serial White Dial Patina Markers Explorer II


Great pictures you guys found. But, I'm going to be honest. I don't like the aged tritium look on a white dial. Love it on a dark dial, but not on white.


----------



## messenius

Well from the pure functional view point the age lume should help the readability against the white dial. But then again I agree with BigHaole that it's not that good looking. Plus I don't like the idea of artificiality which I associate to aged lume on a new watch.


----------



## White Tuna

messenius said:


> Well from the pure functional view point the age lume should help the readability against the white dial. But then again I agree with BigHaole that it's not that good looking. Plus I don't like the idea of artificiality which I associate to aged lume on a new watch.


How is it artificial? It is new but created in that color. It would be like saying pink is artificially aged red? It is just a color choice as far as I m concerned. I do like some contrast between the dial and lume colors myself. I am not on either side of this. I like C3 and was just posting pictures for information.

I highly doubt that Bill will use the vintage color lume and I think he is looking at a white/gilt dial and not a white/black dial which would also affect the lume choice.


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## White Tuna

Also I do not think that there is anything artificial looking about *TheDude's *PAM. It just looks really well put together and I dig the aesthetic.


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## STEELINOX

Would like to see two versions, a Pepsi bezeled , white dialed , normal luminova. The second, The Havana, a black dialed , brown "root beer" inserted , with aged lume...


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## White Tuna

I see that people are prefer a black dial on a root beer. 

Would a dark brown be a deal breaker? I like the way the gilt works with the black on the Kingston but I think brown/gilt would be a really great combo.


----------



## POR901

At first I wasn't interested in a white dialed GMT.....but after seeing this I think I've changed my mind. Everything about this GMT hits the right cords with me.....colors / patina / lume.....


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## Yao

Do you think "Natural" SuperLuminova would fit the bill?


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## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> I see that people are prefer a black dial on a root beer.
> 
> Would a dark brown be a deal breaker? I like the way the gilt works with the black on the Kingston but I think brown/gilt would be a really great combo.


i mean also a brown dialed root beer !


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## STEELINOX

Yao said:


> Do you think "Natural" SuperLuminova would fit the bill?


Absolutely !


----------



## BigHaole

Does anyone have an example of a watch with Superluminova "Natural"?


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## White Tuna

This is all I have found:


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Yao said:


> Do you think "Natural" SuperLuminova would fit the bill?


If you are talking about C3; YES! _(imho)_


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## AlphaWolf777

What about BGW9 like the Nassau? C3 would also be good...


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## 66Cooper

I get worried that the dial will look very plain and flat with a white lume color and a white dial. If Bill goes with a gilt white dial, then you may not really be able to see anything on the dial in certain light. I know that my Kingston does that sometimes. Maybe its the black dial but at certain angles, the gold completely hides and you can only see the lume. Then a slight turn and it all comes to life but still, it could be strange.

I would LOVE to see some better pix of the albino Kingston Bill made for his wife!!


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## AlphaWolf777

66Cooper said:


> I get worried that the dial will look very plain and flat with a white lume color and a white dial. If Bill goes with a gilt white dial, then you may not really be able to see anything on the dial in certain light. I know that my Kingston does that sometimes. Maybe its the black dial but at certain angles, the gold completely hides and you can only see the lume. Then a slight turn and it all comes to life but still, it could be strange.
> 
> I would LOVE to see some better pix of the albino Kingston Bill made for his wife!!


Oh, I didn't know that the Project GMT was to have a white dial. Then I think C3 would probably be the best way to go. That would contrast nicely with a white dial.


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## Thieuster

May I add a pic of my first MarineMaster, a model year 2000 version. This pic is taken about 2.5 yrs ago. As you can see, the Seiko's lumen has turned into a 'coffee with cream (cwc)' color. Even modern style lumen paint can change over time!
This color will look great if Bill decides to offer us a white dial/gilt lines version: the cwc will stand out on the white dial - especially with gilt contour lines.

Menno

Menno


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## TheDude

AlphaWolf777 said:


> Oh, I didn't know that the Project GMT was to have a white dial. Then I think C3 would probably be the best way to go. That would contrast nicely with a white dial.


Only as an option. Definitely black and white.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## gman54

Yes I do...


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## Plat0

66Cooper said:


> I would LOVE to see some better pix of the albino Kingston Bill made for his wife!!


Exactly!

Mr. Yao can you please show us some high resolution shots of that piece. I would love to see how that white Kingston looks up close and in perfect lighting.


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## rmasso

Thieuster said:


> May I add a pic of my first MarineMaster, a model year 2000 version. This pic is taken about 2.5 yrs ago. As you can see, the Seiko's lumen has turned into a 'coffee with cream (cwc)' color. Even modern style lumen paint can change over time!
> This color will look great if Bill decides to offer us a white dial/gilt lines version: the cwc will stand out on the white dial - especially with gilt contour lines.
> 
> Menno
> 
> Menno


Interesting. Mine is about 4.5 years old but still looks same as when I bought it. Pic taken just a few weeks ago...








Rich


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## Chromejob

Yao said:


> Do you think "Natural" SuperLuminova would fit the bill?


I'm not familiar with the color, is there a reliable color guide?

Oops sorry I see the card on the next page. Yeah Bill I think the "Natural" example is similar to the "winter white" I mentioned, which is "cream" to some. Just please God not the orange hell or orange dunkel that some mistake for "vintage lume" (hope I'm not offending anyone).

Those worried about an off-white on pure white dial, don't forget there will be some outline, and as pictured the lume does contrast some. The look in my book is quite classy; and the white dial variant was originally a prestige version for execs IIRC.

Anyone familiar with Clint Eastwood's signature "root beer" GMT? I wonder if that's what is being asked for. I think Jake's Rolex World has an article on it.....

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


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## kkmark

AlphaWolf777 said:


> Oh, I didn't know that the Project GMT was to have a white dial. Then I think C3 would probably be the best way to go. That would contrast nicely with a white dial.


I'm with you on this - C3 for the white dial and C1 if there is a black dial option.


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## TheDude

kkmark said:


> I'm with you on this - C3 for the white dial and C1 if there is a black dial option.


I personally don't care about the white dial, but no C3 for black please. That's not my idea of patina. My eye just registers green.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## AlphaWolf777

If I'm being perfectly honest, I have grown away from the "pre-mature patina look" recently. I have one watch (Steinhart OVM) that has it (Superluminova "radium") and even though it looks cool and the lume is very strong, after having owned the Nassau for a few months now I can say that BGW9 has really grown on me in being my favorite Superluminova. I have come to the realization that I prefer the newer looks of bright white lume and would rather have it (possibly) age naturally as the watch ages. Just my $0.02.


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## White Tuna

I♥C3


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## Chromejob

Bear in mind, C3 is the color of the lume, not necessarily what color the lumed items are in daylight. So I'm told.... 

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


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## AlphaWolf777

I also love C3 and have 3 watches with it. I also like the aged look of Superluminova "old radium." But after having that on my Steinhart OVM, I don't think I would want it on something like the Project GMT. I have fallen in love with the new look of my Nassau with its BGW9 lume. However, I do think that C3 would work perfectly fine with a white or black dial in my opinion.


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## Thieuster

Chromejob said:


> Bear in mind, C3 is the color of the lume, not necessarily what color the lumed items are in daylight. So I'm told....
> 
> // Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


I think you're correct:

Here's a pic of my Pleamar and below a pic of the Pleamar's lumen (found on the internet)


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## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> I personally don't care about the white dial, but no C3 for black please. That's not my idea of patina. My eye just registers green.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


I agree. C3 has a green tint to me, in daylight. Plus, I think that either the blue of BWG9 or the white of C1 will look very sharp on what is an aviator's watch. It would have more of an airplane gauge look, to me.


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## tmoris

and that panerai coffee colour is what kind of luminova, exactly? is it their own proprietary thing or something that can be purchased from a third party?


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## TheDude

tmoris said:


> and that panerai coffee colour is what kind of luminova, exactly? is it their own proprietary thing or something that can be purchased from a third party?


Panerai is proprietary. Their history is steeped in great but proprietary lume. The names of the models initially referred to the trademarked lume that was used. (Luminor & Radiomir)

Their watches glow like the sun...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Yao

the Project GMT cases will be going into mass production later this month. I signed off on the samples earlier this week. We will move the dial and insert design next.

For the hands I am going to take Menno's cue and work on the proportions that he mentioned. I believe that its just the minute hand that needs adjustment. 

For the lume I would suggest as noted earlier as well:

* White dial: Natural or C3 lume
* Black dial: BGW9


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## aviate

Yao said:


> the Project GMT cases will be going into mass production later this month. I signed off on the samples earlier this week. We will move the dial and insert design next.
> 
> For the hands I am going to take Menno's cue and work on the proportions that he mentioned. I believe that its just the minute hand that needs adjustment.
> 
> For the lume I would suggest as noted earlier as well:
> 
> * White dial: Natural or C3 lume
> * Black dial: BGW9


Aarrgghhhh!!!! I just spent an hour going through the entire thread and my rather lengthy reply was lost...well, probably better for everyone involved as it might've been a bit long winded. The gist is that in earlier pictures it was noted that the GMT hand was longer than presently seen on gmt style watches with a smaller triangle. I am hoping that this detail is something that is being considered.

Also, great news about the cases going to production. Thank you for keeping us in the know.

Charles

watchamacallit's pic illustrating the relative length of the hands and their relationship to the dial:

66cooper's pics:


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## Chromejob

I noticed that too (and also lost a long winded reply post). The smaller 24h hand at the chapter ring seemed more in concert with the hour makers. I'd have to go back but I think the triangle fits right between the hour marker and chapter ring. 

All the hands and markers on my Kingston are superbly in balance, I hope we see the same here..... 

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


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## tmoris

Yao said:


> the Project GMT cases will be going into mass production later this month. I signed off on the samples earlier this week. We will move the dial and insert design next.
> 
> For the hands I am going to take Menno's cue and work on the proportions that he mentioned. I believe that its just the minute hand that needs adjustment.
> 
> For the lume I would suggest as noted earlier as well:
> 
> * White dial: Natural or C3 lume
> * Black dial: BGW9


Could someone please post a dial pic with the natural luminova? From the catalogue luminova look i cannot make out if its greenish as the c3 or yellowish or ..?

Sent from my HTC using Tapatalk


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## Thieuster

I think that Bill refers to my question in posting #90 of this thread: I asked if it was possible to align the 'ball' at the end of the second hand with the 'cross' of the mercedes hand: making sure that the ball of the second hand is in the exact center of the mercedes 'ball' when it's on top of that hand. I suggested to make the second hand a tad longer.

Rolex hands are aligned very precisely, the Kingston's hands do not align the way I suggested in posting #90.

Menno


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## TheDude

Thieuster said:


> I think that Bill refers to my question in posting #90 of this thread: I asked if it was possible to align the 'ball' at the end of the second hand with the 'cross' of the mercedes hand: making sure that the ball of the second hand is in the exact center of the mercedes 'ball' when it's on top of that hand. I suggested to make the second hand a tad longer.
> 
> Rolex hands are aligned very precisely, the Kingston's hands do not align the way I suggested in posting #90.
> 
> Menno


Huh, you're right. It's a little off but you can't tell from this pic I just snapped. Off by the same amount on my SeaDweller too.









Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


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## BigHaole

Have we settled on the tiny 24-hour hand? I'd really like to see something between the over-sized 24-hour triangle on a modern GMT and the tiny one on the classic model.


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## Thieuster

TheDude said:


> Huh, you're right. It's a little off but you can't tell from this pic I just snapped. Off by the same amount on my SeaDweller too.
> 
> View attachment 1035831
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


Let me tell you a funny story behind my question. My wife owns and wears a Tudor midsize Sub (75090) And the Tudor's hands are aligned like the one on the Sub you showed us. She found that out, waiting for a plane to take her to Amsterdam. And she asked me if my Sub had the same alignment. (Yes, it has). A few weeks later, she entered a board room of a large company in Manhattan to talk about a project. Several men in the room were wearing Subs and they were discussing 'attention to detail' and 'we never miss a detail'. She had her own thoughts about that and asked them about the alignment of their Rolex' hands... None of the men had noticed Rolex' eye for detail - and 7 men were quite shocked to hear this from a Rolex wearing female consultant (she was wearing her vintage Precision at that time).

Back on topic: I think that a slightly larger GMT triangle will enhance versatility of the watch: after all, it's the GMT function that sets the watch apart from other watches. I've said before: I own a LRRP and sometimes it's not an easy to read watch! You have to look closely at the dial and the markers to make sure what the GMT time is, especially when the capstone bezel is used for a third timezone.

Menno


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## rmasso

Thieuster said:


> Let me tell you a funny story behind my question. My wife owns and wears a Tudor midsize Sub (75090) And the Tudor's hands are aligned like the one on the Sub you showed us. She found that out, waiting for a plane to take her to Amsterdam. And she asked me if my Sub had the same alignment. (Yes, it has). A few weeks later, she entered a board room of a large company in Manhattan to talk about a project. Several men in the room were wearing Subs and they were discussing 'attention to detail' and 'we never miss a detail'. She had her own thoughts about that and asked them about the alignment of their Rolex' hands... None of the men had noticed Rolex' eye for detail - and 7 men were quite shocked to hear this from a Rolex wearing female consultant (she was wearing her vintage Precision at that time).
> 
> Menno


Menno, I love this story, stuff like that never seems to happen to me...
Rich


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## Yao

BigHaole said:


> Have we settled on the tiny 24-hour hand? I'd really like to see something between the over-sized 24-hour triangle on a modern GMT and the tiny one on the classic model.


Sounds like something in between is what is being called for.?.?


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## Cleans Up

I personally like the old style tiny hand, but would be o.k. with slightly larger. I do think we should move away from the larger hand that the lrrp features. There are many watches with a similar look and I'd like this to be different if not unique (sorta hard for an homage to be unique I know) 

As for lume, bw9g is awesome. I'd prefer to avoid c3...I live the glow but don't like the green tint in the sunlight that it often has. Natural for a white dial seems like a good choice


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## Thieuster

rmasso said:


> Menno, I love this story, stuff like that never seems to happen to me...
> Rich


Me neighter. In fact, I never meet people 'in the wild' who are interested in watches! But then, I've never enter the boardroom of a (large Manhattan based) company. The combination of being female, eloquent and being interested in watches is a source of more funny watch related stories I can tell you.

@Bill: yes, perhaps you're right about the size of the triangle. But as often, pics tell us more. And perhaps you can come up with a suggestion like you did with the dial mock ups back in September. You can include the different lumen colors, the altered hand lenghts and the triangle. It's important that the size of the triangle matches with the size of the 'dots' I think. I've suggested a larger triangle, but when it's 'clashing' with the size of the dots, I think your should go for a more obvious (?) design.

Menno

(EDIT: not sure about the phrase 'Me Neighter' at the beginning of this reaction - I'm sure you'll be able to understand what I mean. I'm open for suggestions)

M.


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## rmasso

Thieuster said:


> Me neighter. In fact, I never meet people 'in the wild' who are interested in watches! But then, I've never enter the boardroom of a (large Manhattan based) company. The combination of being female, eloquent and being interested in watches is a source of more funny watch related stories I can tell you.
> Menno
> M.


This couldn't be truer for me as well. My wife runs into watch people or people wearing Rolexes and Subs and other high end watches and comes home to tell me about it. The guys where I work don't seem to wear watches and if they do they are not necessarily high end. Most of them rely on their phones for the time. Everyone at work knows I am a watch nut though so when they run into stories on the web or something on TV, they always share with me. But I never have the opportunity for such interactions either. Such is the life of some collectors I assume.  And people are always amazed how much my wife knows about watches, probably because I can never stop talking about it, I've gotten better over the years though, but every now and then you see something new that you are after and the talking starts again... ;-)

Rich


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## White Tuna

Neither?


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## rmasso

White Tuna said:


> Neither?


Yep, I think that's what Menno meant, interestingly I read it as neither and had to go double check when I read his edit below. Interesting how the brain just read what was meant. There was a study a few years ago about how one could read a word so long as the first and last letter were in their correct spots if the letters in between were jumbled up, the brain still recognized the word.


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## Yao

Thieuster said:


> Me neighter. In fact, I never meet people 'in the wild' who are interested in watches! But then, I've never enter the boardroom of a (large Manhattan based) company. The combination of being female, eloquent and being interested in watches is a source of more funny watch related stories I can tell you.
> 
> @Bill: yes, perhaps you're right about the size of the triangle. But as often, pics tell us more. And perhaps you can come up with a suggestion like you did with the dial mock ups back in September. You can include the different lumen colors, the altered hand lenghts and the triangle. It's important that the size of the triangle matches with the size of the 'dots' I think. I've suggested a larger triangle, but when it's 'clashing' with the size of the dots, I think your should go for a more obvious (?) design.
> 
> Menno
> 
> (EDIT: not sure about the phrase 'Me Neighter' at the beginning of this reaction - I'm sure you'll be able to understand what I mean. I'm open for suggestions)
> 
> M.


Your quite right of course


----------



## Chromejob

Thieuster said:


> I think that Bill refers to my question in posting #90 of this thread: I asked if it was possible to align the 'ball' at the end of the second hand with the 'cross' of the mercedes hand: making sure that the ball of the second hand is in the exact center of the mercedes 'ball' when it's on top of that hand. I suggested to make the second hand a tad longer.
> 
> Rolex hands are aligned very precisely, the Kingston's hands do not align the way I suggested in posting #90.
> 
> Menno


Not sure I get you, but on cheaper watches I see the luminous ball of the sweep second hand extend just beyond the ball of the Mercedes hour hand so that in exact alignment they look like a snowman, stacked. Never paid attention to the counter balance end..... (Off to go watch my watches..)



BigHaole said:


> Have we settled on the tiny 24-hour hand? I'd really like to see something between the over-sized 24-hour triangle on a modern GMT and the tiny one on the classic model.





Yao said:


> Sounds like something in between is what is being called for.?.?


No. Please, no.

Looking at early models, you can see that the 24h triangle is sized to pass between the hour markers and the chapter ring (iirc). Monkey around with the triangle and you'll have to adjust those as well. Danger Will Robinson, danger....

I suspect that the right color and lume material will make an authentic small triangle quite visible. We have to test the design, I suppose. 

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


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## Chromejob

curt941 said:


>


Well, maybe my memory's faulty. The two on the ends demonstrate what i mean... Not the middle watch.

I could be wrong but I believe the 24h hand is so far at the perimeter so that its lume will not be obstructed by the minute hand when they're aligned. :what: [1]

..... I'll try to find other examples and variations we can discuss.

[1] Confirmed. I've found examples both ways, I'm guessing due to replacement with wrong minute hands. Why? I stashed away some vintage Rolex ads that show a shorter minute hand. Will post later tonight after preparing din din for my spawn..... 

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


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## rmasso

Chromejob said:


> Well, maybe my memory's faulty. The two on the ends demonstrate what i mean... Not the middle watch.
> 
> I could be wrong but I believe the 24h hand is so far at the perimeter so that its lume will not be obstructed by the minute hand when they're aligned. :what:
> 
> ..... I'll try to find other examples and variations we can discuss.
> 
> // Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


What you are saying about the minute hand obstructionmakes sense, but wouldn't a fat 24-hr hand also be visible underneath if that is the issue? Just tossing that out there if that is the only concern.
Rich


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## Arthur

I would really like to see the GMT hand left small like the original. Actually with proper lume, the small GMT hand is quite visible. In fact being close to the rehaut the lume reflects off the rehaut and is very visible

Were I to have a vote, I would like the White dial to be either C3 or Natural.


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## Toiyabe

Arthur said:


> I would really like to see the GMT hand left small like the original. Actually with proper lume, the small GMT hand is quite visible. In fact being close to the rehaut the lume reflects off the rehaut and is very visible
> 
> Were I to have a vote, I would like the White dial to be either C3 or Natural.


I also like the original small GMT hand, as it is both iconographic and attractive.

I would also like the whit dial with natural or C3 lume, as I think that would be an outstanding combination.

I can't wait, and hopefully I can request a serial number.


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## Chromejob

I'm not an expert, but it looks from images I've seen that they enlarged the 24h indicator in Ref. 1675 (which also had crown guards). Even with a shorter minute hand, this larger triangle blocked out most or all of the round hour markers, and was itself obscured by the minutes hand when they aligned. Nice for visibility, but I don't like a triangle and circle lume object occupying the same place and perhaps being confused. Particularly now that this old fart needs reading glasses. 

Looking at some pics, particularly some beautiful ones by *Stefano Mazzariol*, one can see that originally the hands were apparently designed so that all of them complemented each other. The minute hand clearly does not reach further than the chapter ring indices, and the 24h indicator resides right in the range of those indices.



















BTW, that's the color of lume that I like and will work well with dark outlines. I call it "winter white," or natural, or "cream." I have no idea how that'll look with gilt outlines, if that's even still considered. Were any done that way? 

Now, there are pics out there of these watches (Ref. 6542) with longer minute hands. I suspect this is a case of the wrong minute hand being swapped on the watch at some point. My evidence is two vintage Rolex ads, and (if I squint just right) a 6542 instruction manual.



















Yeah, I know -- those are 1675s with crown guards. And that second ad (late 1960s, early 1970s judging from the hair styles, font family) seems to show a larger, or shorter, 24h hand. When I search online for "rolex 1675" I see tons of them with much larger 24h indicators, blocking the hour markers.

*Why couldn't we enlarge the 24h indicator...? *

Well, if you want to maintain this balance of chapter ring indices, 1-2-4-5-7-8-10-11 hour markers never being obscured, and the 24h indicator not being obscured by the minute hand, the positioning and proportions may get out of whack. (edit) (We're making an authentic reproduction, not a derivative homage, correct me if I'm mistaken. Lots of others make those pseudo-reproductions.) With the quality and quantity of SuperLuminova that Bill's specifying I don't think the older, smaller indicator will be a problem. Remember that there are NO luminous markings outside of those hour markers, so a glowing spot by the rehaut could only be one thing. In fact, I think that could've been the idea -- it there's a glowing spot at the outermost ring of the dial, that's your 24h indicator. I've always liked that, and disliked the ginormous indicator further towards center.

*Minute hand length, lume area. *

In the images below, you can see a minute hand that's clearly too long. Note how the lume on the left watch's minutes hand reaches only to the hour marker and stops short of it. (You see this in Stefano's pics above, too.) It looks like the hand is longer and extending into the chapter ring indices, but I think that's the sweep seconds hand's tip. Contrast with the watch on the right, the minutes hand's lume reaches into the hour marker. Most vintage, original Rolex Subs I've seen I noticed that the sweep seconds hand luminous pip does not reach to the 3, 6, 9 o'clock hour markers, but just short of them, forming a "i" momentarily. Bill reproduced this in the Kingston (well done, sir!). I think the sweep seconds hand, and minutes hand, on the 6542 displayed the same attention to detail. My proof is seen above in the second ad (detail) -- look where the pip is relative to the 6 o'clock marker.  Look again at the watch on the right below -- hello, that sweep seconds hand pip has crossed in front of the 9 o'clock marker (*and* its tip extends beyond the chapter ring). That's two "oops" on that watch. A collector might argue with me, but I think there's some sloppiness going on in that watch, something I wouldn't attribute to Rolex.

BTW I include these two (below) to illustrate what I mean about "fake vintage lume." I find the dark cream and orange colors just atrocious. Authentic to a 50 year old watch, but not to a reproduction, and not to a new watch.










Clearly, to me, the hands and seconds hands on the right-hand watch are "not right" compared to originals, even if the replacement parts are genuine Rolex.

*Addendum:*

BTW, in all of this, I defer to Bill. I'm just an aficionado who's looked at a lot of pics, and learns bit by bit at the knees of collectors and watchmakers. Bill has spent ungodly number of hours starting at these things through a loupe, sweating over these kinds of details. He knows how to make this stuff work. Also ... he may find that his hands supplier can actually make the metal of the 24h indicator thinner than Rolex did in the original, resulting in a larger proportion of lume to metal. We shall have to see what our watchmaker tells us is feasible. 8)


----------



## Arthur

chrome,
Thanks for a very, very well done and informative post. I have said all along that the small GMT hand should be retained.I have seen examples of 6542,s that were re lumed at some point that still have some "Glow" the GMT hand will reflect off the rehaut, and it has a very different and interesting effect. Rolex solved the problem of overlap quite nicely, longest hand GMT, next the minute hand, then the short hour hand. To me the Sweep second is of no great consequence, as it's moving so fast it doesn't obscure anything for over a second or two To me that's the way to solve the problem, make the GMT hand long enough to reach the chapter ring, the Minute hand shorter to barely cover the base of the triangle of the GMT hand when it crosses over, and the hour hand shorter . I'm not such a stickler for some of thethings mentioned such as the ball onthe ensd of the second hand intersecting precisely the middle of the Mercedes Y. If it can be made to do it, that's fine, but it sure doesn't matter to me if it's off a few thousandths.

AFA the lume, I'm with you about the color, similar to the top ones in Stefano's photo. Creamy, neutral, whatever the name, just duplicate that color! I don't believe that Rolex made a gilt white. If they were ever made at all. I'm a firm believer that they were, but that story has been hashed out "ad nauseum" Rolex ain't telling, Pan Am's records are all buried in an archive at the University of Florida library, so until a watch turns up with an ironclad provenence, their eistance will be a matter of speculation. Stefano Mazzariol firmly believes they exist, and he has forgotten more about Vintage Rolex es than I will ever know!! Frankly WhileI have been and advocate of Gilt lettered white dials, i'm beginniing to think that the dials need black markers and outlines. i'm just afraid that gilt on white isn't going to provide enough contrast and in some lighting conditions, the dial is going to look like a blank white dial.

Here is the photo I found,.This is from a fellow who makes aftermarket acrylic inserts for 6542's. he constructed a homage watch, using and aftermarket bezel assembly and his own insert. He relumed the dial and hands to match the insert lume. What I wanted to illustrate was the lume glow on the rehault. It's pretty easy to see where the GMT hand is because you have a "double glow effect" the hand as well as the reflection. not a good photo, plus I need to get his permission to use it.
I'll try to get one better tomorrow


----------



## Thieuster

@ Chromejob & Arthur: great postings guys! Thanks.

I still have to imagine gilt lines around the markers on the white dial, though.

Menno


----------



## STEELINOX

Small 24 hour hand !


----------



## Chromejob

Arthur said:


> ... Here is the photo I found,.This is from a fellow who makes aftermarket acrylic inserts for 6542's. he constructed a homage watch, using and aftermarket bezel assembly and his own insert. He relumed the dial and hands to match the insert lume. What I wanted to illustrate was the lume glow on the rehault. It's pretty easy to see where the GMT hand is because you have a "double glow effect" the hand as well as the reflection. not a good photo, plus I need to get his permission to use it.
> I'll try to get one better tomorrow


Thanks for the compliment, and the pic. Yeah I think this demonstrates that, at least when the lume is fully charged and glowing strong, a good amount of lume on that little 24h indicator makes it visible.


----------



## BigHaole

I still think this should be a re-imagined version of the Pan Am, and not simply an excellent homage. One of the areas that I think would be improved would be the 24-hour marker. I don't want to see something akin to the current GMT Master II, far from it. But I would like to see that beautiful little triangle be a little bit bigger, so I can actually see it. Judging by some of the pictures posted earlier, there seems to be plenty of room to enlarge the triangle a little, without ruining the aesthetics and balance of the hands and markers.


----------



## kkmark

Yao said:


> the Project GMT cases will be going into mass production later this month. I signed off on the samples earlier this week. We will move the dial and insert design next.
> 
> For the hands I am going to take Menno's cue and work on the proportions that he mentioned. I believe that its just the minute hand that needs adjustment.
> 
> For the lume I would suggest as noted earlier as well:
> 
> * White dial: Natural or C3 lume
> * Black dial: BGW9


Sounds good on the lume, Bill. It would be great to see what the natural or C3 looks like on the white dial.

Not crazy about coffee cream patina so hoping the natural looks okay! That said the coffee cream looks great on that Panerai watch - Richemont did a good job on that. Just not sure about that patina look for an Mk II that's all. Don't know how else to explain it - have edited this post too many times already...

Best, Ken


----------



## kkmark

Bill, wondering if it's possible to post pictures of the draft Key West dial with the various lume choices you outlined. Thanks, Ken


----------



## Reintitan

Yao said:


> Sounds like something in between is what is being called for.?.?


I prefer the mini-hand of the original 6542. A large arrow hand will throw off the look completely.


----------



## cpotters

I thought I'd chime in here on the GMT hand. We all know that the Devil is in the details, and I confess that - while I hadn't noticed it initially, it is stunning to see the small GMT arrowhead riding squarely inside the minutes indicators as if its riding on rails. I also had not noticed the dot on the end of the second hand falling squarely in the center of the mercedes hour indicator. 

these are exactly the kinds of details that separate Bill's watches from the rest. The smaller the detail, the more interesting the watch.


----------



## Chromejob

Just as a q&d exercise, I took lume pics of the relationship of a sweep second hand pip to a 9 o'clock marker, and the ball of the hour hand. Note that the ball obscures the little "hat" (or "point" ...?) of the hour hand. At least I think it does -- at night.

I was showing my daughter (10 years old) this at bedtime tonight, lights out, BGW9 glowing bright (yes, it's a Kingston). While she and I watched the sweep second hand travel around the dial, and she uttered a few "Ooohhh's" watching it happen, she whispered, "Sometimes you're a really cool daddy."  So there you are ... all the attention and exacting craftsmanship is a means to achieving _really cool_ status with your offspring. Not something to take cavalierly.










I'd never noticed the eclipse of the arse end of the sweep seconds hand over the hour pip. Made a little macro video of it, quite cool actually. Sweet. b-)


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> Huh, you're right. It's a little off but you can't tell from this pic I just snapped. Off by the same amount on my SeaDweller too.
> 
> View attachment 1035831
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2


I think my Kingston does that. I checked several times over the last few days and it looks like that to me.


----------



## Arthur

I just checked my Kingston and the ball on the south end of the sweep hand doesn't center exactly over the Y in the Mercedes hand, it's a little shorter, only about half of the ball covers the Y. AFA I'm concerned, this is really "picking nits"!! I'm not going to stare at my watch to see if the hand passes precisely over the middle of the hour hand, and I don't think most others will either. Very close is plenty good for me!!


----------



## AlphaWolf777

My Nassau's seconds hand counterweight aligns perfectly with the mercedes hand.


----------



## JCW1980

Little somethin somethin to drool over and stoke the impatience.. Macro shots of the 6542 bezel (yeah yeah, I know the Key West will likely not have a bezel inlay...I just couldn't resist ;-))


----------



## cpotters

JCW1980 said:


> Little somethin somethin to drool over and stoke the impatience.. Macro shots of the 6542 bezel (yeah yeah, I know the Key West will likely not have a bezel inlay...I just couldn't resist ;-))


If there were any way to make - using modern materials - a bezel that would last AND meet Bill's pretty rigid specification requirements for Quality Control, I would cheerfully pay an ADDITIONAL $200 on top of my price to obtain a bezel insert like this. Frankly, I'd probably buy 2 or 3, to insure the future of the watch (how many people wished they had bought 4 or 5 replacement inserts in 1956?). But that why I'm an enthusiast, and not a watch builder. Every decision in creating the design of these watches has to balance the respect for the original designs MkII pays homage to, the practicality of modernizing and updating these designs for today's wearer, and complying with Bill's rigorous obsession for quality. Invariably, somethings gotta give: in this case, i fear, it's that lovely syrupy look of the original bezels. C'est la Guerre.


----------



## STEELINOX

cpotters said:


> If there were any way to make - using modern materials - a bezel that would last AND meet Bill's pretty rigid specification requirements for Quality Control, I would cheerfully pay an ADDITIONAL $200 on top of my price to obtain a bezel insert like this. Frankly, I'd probably buy 2 or 3, to insure the future of the watch (how many people wished they had bought 4 or 5 replacement inserts in 1956?). But that why I'm an enthusiast, and not a watch builder. Every decision in creating the design of these watches has to balance the respect for the original designs MkII pays homage to, the practicality of modernizing and updating these designs for today's wearer, and complying with Bill's rigorous obsession for quality. Invariably, somethings gotta give: in this case, i fear, it's that lovely syrupy look of the original bezels. C'est la Guerre.


Agree with this to a point.

The price of such an insert is going to increase the price of this watch waaaay more than a few hundred bucks; more in the neighborhood of a thou$and is prolly more realistic.

And that "reality" is putting this into a *jewelry* class project !


----------



## Chromejob

An honest question : a sapphire bezel wouldn't approximate this? 

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## STEELINOX

Chromejob said:


> An honest question : a sapphire bezel wouldn't approximate this?
> 
> // Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


Guessing that a sapphire ring of about .030 thick needs to be supported / protected by a bezel frame pretty much like a genuine ROLEX bezel ring that supports a ceramic insert...

That said, it's a pricey proposition executing a sapphire lens that prolly would be a $ part of the equation...

the KISS acronym weights towards the aluminum if ya want to keep this thing sane !


----------



## White Tuna

I like the aluminum on my Kingston and would love to see a GMT blue/red aluminum done well.


----------



## cpotters

STEELINOX said:


> Agree with this to a point.
> 
> The price of such an insert is going to increase the price of this watch waaaay more than a few hundred bucks; more in the neighborhood of a thou$and is prolly more realistic.


I never know how Bill's relationship with suppliers allows him pricing leverage, but my acrylic bezel cost came from looking at the ND Trading Replacement Inserts for the GMTs. They run $280 each, and I assumed that running a series of 100 or so would bring wholesale pricing down. Here are the inserts in both daylight and night time views:

Daylight: Insert- Rolex No Guard GMT Master 6542 for Rolex GMT 6542 Gold [Insert for Rolex GMT 6542 Gold] - $280.00 : ND Trading Enterprises ndtradingcorp.com, Vintage Rolex Dials and Watches
Night time Insert Rolex No Guard GMT 6542 Glow in the Night [Insert 6542 Glow in the night] - $280.00 : ND Trading Enterprises ndtradingcorp.com, Vintage Rolex Dials and Watches

Of course, it's all about the QC, and that I cannot speak to. But I am the eternal optimist, so I think that anything is possible....


----------



## STEELINOX

cpotters said:


> I never know how Bill's relationship with suppliers allows him pricing leverage, but my acrylic bezel cost came from looking at the ND Trading Replacement Inserts for the GMTs. They run $280 each, and I assumed that running a series of 100 or so would bring wholesale pricing down. Here are the inserts in both daylight and night time views:
> 
> Daylight: Insert- Rolex No Guard GMT Master 6542 for Rolex GMT 6542 Gold [Insert for Rolex GMT 6542 Gold] - $280.00 : ND Trading Enterprises ndtradingcorp.com, Vintage Rolex Dials and Watches
> Night time Insert Rolex No Guard GMT 6542 Glow in the Night [Insert 6542 Glow in the night] - $280.00 : ND Trading Enterprises ndtradingcorp.com, Vintage Rolex Dials and Watches
> 
> Of course, it's all about the QC, and that I cannot speak to. But I am the eternal optimist, so I think that anything is possible....


Interesting, however, in order for Bill to make this worth his Company's while, remember, it is a for profit operation, this will have some significant mark up well beyond what you pay for an acrylic now...


----------



## Chromejob

STEELINOX said:


> Guessing that a sapphire ring of about .030 thick needs to be supported / protected by a bezel frame pretty much like a genuine ROLEX bezel ring that supports a ceramic insert...
> 
> That said, it's a pricey proposition executing a sapphire lens that prolly would be a $ part of the equation...
> 
> the KISS acronym weights towards the aluminum if ya want to keep this thing sane !


Not to pit one maker against another, but Steinhart puts sapphire bezel inserts on their Ocean 44 and Triton watches iirc without too much inflation of the final price.


----------



## STEELINOX

Chromejob said:


> Not to pit one maker against another, but Steinhart puts sapphire bezel inserts on their Ocean 44 and Triton watches iirc without too much inflation of the final price.


Thats great for Steinhardt, except now we are talkin about "numbers produced," and by that I would bet they are punching our more models with that configuration.

MKII is planning a shorter run (for now) = higher cost !


----------



## Yao

Chromejob said:


> Not to pit one maker against another, but Steinhart puts sapphire bezel inserts on their Ocean 44 and Triton watches iirc without too much inflation of the final price.


As far as Steinhart is concerned for the watches you mentioned:

Ocean 44: The sapphire inlay is there but there is no lume. They drilled a hole through the bezel and inset a standard luminous "nail"

Triton: The watch has a standard steel or aluminum engraved inlay and they filed in the engraving with luminous paint.

In short both are a completely different animal from what we are trying to do.

If you don't need the GMT inlay to glow in the dark then the process is actually relatively easy and affordable.

I am trying to set up an appointment with one of my suppliers to talk about a luminous sapphire inlay. The biggest issue is attaching the luminous to the sapphire. The processes that have been attempted lead to air bubbles being trapped between or in the luminous layer. If I can I want to see how this looks and how "bad" it is. If the bubbles are small enough then may be its okay. If the bubbles are big and obvious then its obviously a no-go.

Anything is possible but the real issue is making it last the test of time and making is practical. Using acrylic has its own problems, mainly dimensional consistency and stability.


----------



## 66Cooper

Amazing to hear that you have taken this, this far. I'm excited to hear he outcome of your visit. I think it will help settle this once and for all. If it doesn't meet your standards, it does meet your standards. No one can argue with that!


----------



## rmasso

That's what separates Bill from the rest in my mind. 
Another reason why I look forward to the Pilot watch project!
Rich


----------



## jussi

66Cooper said:


> If it doesn't meet your standards, it does meet your standards. No one can argue with that!


Exactly what 66coop says!


----------



## tmoris

Bill, thanks for the insight! Being part of your projects is fascinating and I wonder whether we would enjoy the watches this much without all the foreplay! Personally, I love it


----------



## Yao

66Cooper said:


> Amazing to hear that you have taken this, this far. I'm excited to hear he outcome of your visit. I think it will help settle this once and for all. If it doesn't meet your standards, it does meet your standards. No one can argue with that!


I do seriously want to do this. I have been working on it off-and-on for at least 2 years trying to find the best possible construction. I am pretty sure what that construction has to be now but the potential price tag and certainly the scrap rate are very much cause for concern though. I just hope my supplier is coming to Basel this year.

In any event that's why we are pressing on with the aluminum version first.


----------



## tako_watch

tmoris said:


> Bill, thanks for the insight! Being part of your projects is fascinating and I wonder whether we would enjoy the watches this much without all the foreplay! Personally, I love it


I have never regretted foreplay...


----------



## rmasso

tmoris said:


> Bill, thanks for the insight! Being part of your projects is fascinating and I wonder whether we would enjoy the watches this much without all the foreplay! Personally, I love it


I think that is part of being a collector of something, the hunt (or foreplay as you call it).  Think of how many times you have sought after a grail watch, then you get it, then what, its off to the next hunt. I have at least half a dozen or so watches that at one time or another were a holy grail watch, but i continue to collect and buy others and the grail watches take turns in the safe... I think it's part of our craze. In a way it reminds me of Bill's pursuit of perfection article, I think if I found the perfect watch that I might stop... but in all honesty I doubt I would. As I have told my co-workers, it's like asking Jay Leno to give up all his cars but one, he'd never do it as he is a car collector. Hence the term collector. 

In any event, with me, it's also never about price, it's about what I like, my most recent purchase is a ~$200 Seiko that I have been wearing the last month or so... I'm just a watch junkie, I like watches. That's why I'll never be satisfied with just one or two, I need variety and always like trying to find the next best thing. As I have mentioned before, my next pursuit of perfection is Bill's Pilot Watch project, coming soon, maybe it'll be the one! Don't know, we'll see, I am sure it will at least keep me interested for a good while until the next thing comes along....
Rich


----------



## Chromejob

Thanks for the expert feedback, Bill. Another concern is not attempting some fabrication with such QC nightmares that they make you go gray before your time. :banghead:

:beer:

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## STEELINOX

Yao said:


> I do seriously want to do this. I have been working on it off-and-on for at least 2 years trying to find the best possible construction. I am pretty sure what that construction has to be now but the potential price tag and certainly the scrap rate are very much cause for concern though. I just hope my supplier is coming to Basel this year.
> 
> *In any event that's why we are pressing on with the aluminum version first*.


Makes perfect sense...

*

MKII imagery,
*


----------



## White Tuna

Tetraflop said:


> I´d like to see a very, very dark blue + red ( verschwärzlicht in German = with black broken ciolor ? ), if a Pepsi bezel is an option.
> Not the pure blue + red used for the later bezel versions.


I would like to start this up again. I am would really prefer the very dark blue + red combo. I do not think the red of the GMT arm has to match the bezel. I actually think it would look better if it did not match.


----------



## Chromejob

I concur, I think that's what the originals looked like, not the cadet blue and firehouse red of later models. 

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## Arthur

Chromejob said:


> I concur, I think that's what the originals looked like, not the cadet blue and firehouse red of later models.
> 
> // Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


You are right. If. you go back and look at the original bakelite inserts on the 6542,s they were dark red,almost a maroon and the blue wasn't the shiny bright blue of modern inserts. I believe that is why so many folks like the aged faded inserts on their older GMT's


----------



## POR901

Dark red and dark blue has my vote!


----------



## Neily_San

POR901 said:


> Dark red and dark blue has my vote!


POR901,

Thanks !
That is a great comparison shot
:-D

The only problem is that I only put down one deposit ?! At the time my heart said "white dial", but your shot really proves that I will not be satisfied with only one option. So I will either need to start trawling the second-hand marketplace once a significant number have been delivered; or hope that Bill will agree to sell me a "spare" black dial ;-)

Neily


----------



## JFingers

White dial for me, please, since my Kingston (way more than) satisfies my black dial with gilt need. Now, if only I can get my hands on a pre-order!

Blue skies, y'all,
-jake


----------



## Dave Wallace

These are going to be awesome...hoping to grab a Kingston for the black dial and a GMT with the white when they hit the market...fingers crossed.


----------



## cpotters

POR901 said:


> Dark red and dark blue has my vote!


And THIS is why I ordered two. One white-dialed with pepsi (sometimes called a Pam-Am Executive) one black-dialed coke with that dark blue and red bezel (known as a "Pussy Galore"). Me Lik-ee!!


----------



## TheDude

cpotters said:


> And THIS is why I ordered two. One white-dialed with pepsi (sometimes called a Pam-Am Executive) one black-dialed coke with that dark blue and red bezel (known as a "Pussy Galore"). Me Lik-ee!!


Wait... So since I am number two behind you in line, do you get two before I get my one? :what:

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Arthur

TheDude said:


> Wait... So since I am number two behind you in line, do you get two before I get my one? :what:
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


How did you get to be # 2 ?? I thought I was second!!!


----------



## TheDude

Arthur said:


> How did you get to be # 2 ?? I thought I was second!!!


Nope. I tried to cram a deposit check in Bill's hand back in April of 2011. He refused to take my check but promised I would be second behind cpotters who had already established his spot as #1.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BigHaole

I was just looking on the Project GMT page on the MKII site and I noticed that there is a bonus for pre-order Customers:

Pre-order customers will receive spare bezel and aluminum inlay

Thanks, Bill! I had not caught that in the discussion thread.


----------



## Thieuster

I still hope that Bill will offer a spare dial in the color of your choice - perhaps at a cost, but certainly worthwhile considering I think.

Menno


----------



## Neily_San

Thieuster said:


> I still hope that Bill will offer a spare dial in the color of your choice - perhaps at a cost, but certainly worthwhile considering I think.
> 
> Menno


I would certainly be happy to pay for a spare dial 

Neily


----------



## White Tuna

Thieuster said:


> I still hope that Bill will offer a spare dial in the color of your choice - perhaps at a cost, but certainly worthwhile considering I think.
> 
> Menno


I just wish that there was some kind of part availability. But I am sure if Bill had GMT dials available for parts purchase they would be gone within a couple of months anyway. :-(


----------



## TheDude

Anyone see the new Rolex GMT announced today? Two tone ceramic bezel, blue and black. Looks awesome. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## White Tuna

Black and Green would have looked better IMHO.


----------



## Yao

White Tuna said:


> Black and Green would have looked better IMHO.


Cool! They finally got it to work. Blue and black as just fine by me. There is way too much self-idolatry green in their line up right now. IMHO.


----------



## Malyel

White Tuna said:


> Black and Green would have looked better IMHO.
> View attachment 1059842


Nice! Maybe Rolex saw the MKii suggested concept that I posted last year and copied it. ;-) :roll:



Malyel said:


> Thanks, just sharing my design suggestions.


----------



## Thieuster

Someone at Rolex HQ is a 'lurker' here. Let's see where we stand:

- Bill comes up with the 39mm Vantage, Rolex answers with the 39mm Explorer
- Bill comes up thw the LRRP, Rolex answers with the 42mm version of their Subs
- Bill reinvents the red 'n' gilt Sub, Rolex answers with the Tudor Black Bay
- Malyel shows us his interpretation of the Key West: the black 'n' Blue GMT, Rolex answers with... the Black and Blue GMT, including the blue GMT hand!

Now, what's next?

Menno


----------



## AlphaWolf777

Thieuster said:


> Someone at Rolex HQ is a 'lurker' here. Let's see where we stand:
> 
> - Bill comes up with the 39mm Vantage, Rolex answers with the 39mm Explorer
> - Bill comes up thw the LRRP, Rolex answers with the 42mm version of their Subs
> - Bill reinvents the red 'n' gilt Sub, Rolex answers with the Tudor Black Bay
> - Malyel shows us his interpretation of the Key West: the black 'n' Blue GMT, Rolex answers with... the Black and Blue GMT, including the blue GMT hand!
> 
> Now, what's next?
> 
> Menno


It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case. Competition. Although that would be an absolute bombshell of a story if it was proven.


----------



## Thieuster

As far as I know, there is one other watch with the b'n'b bezel color combination: a Breil chrono... It is safe to assume(...) that they've spotted it here! How long will it take for Rolex to design and produce a bezel like this from drawingboard to production? Or is the watch they've shown here only a display item (yet) and will it take a while before this GMT will be sold by ADs?

Menno


----------



## TheDude

Thieuster said:


> As far as I know, there is one other watch with the b'n'b bezel color combination: a Breil chrono... It is safe to assume(...) that they've spotted it here! How long will it take for Rolex to design and produce a bezel like this from drawingboard to production? Or is the watch they've shown here only a display item (yet) and will it take a while before this GMT will be sold by ADs?
> 
> Menno


The bezel is already production since 2005. The single color was said to take over 40hrs to manufacture but who knows how long for the two color. As far as choosing blue, Rolex has the most experience with blue and black (they only recently did green on the hulk). They actually submitted a patent for red, but rumors say the color isn't right hence the reason there's no Pepsi bezel yet.

Video showing them making a GMT bezel. (the bezels on the stainless models have platinum PVD'd into the numerals)






Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Chromejob

Yao said:


> There is way too much self-idolatry green in their line up right now. IMHO.


LOL :-D


----------



## TheDude

So I have mentioned this before but I want to dig it up again. I really really want to see a lower profile crown on the Havana. The LRRP crown or Vantage crown would be fine IMO. GMTs don't need to be rated like divers, in fact the current Rolex GMT is only rated to 100M even though it has a Triplock. 

The Nassau crown is nice and reflects the current modern aesthetic for crowns, but I feel it is too high for this watch. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Yao

TheDude said:


> So I have mentioned this before but I want to dig it up again. I really really want to see a lower profile crown on the Havana. The LRRP crown or Vantage crown would be fine IMO. GMTs don't need to be rated like divers, in fact the current Rolex GMT is only rated to 100M even though it has a Triplock.
> 
> The Nassau crown is nice and reflects the current modern aesthetic for crowns, but I feel it is too high for this watch.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


I actually have a different crown in the same vein as the Vantage for the Project GMT.


----------



## TheDude

Yao said:


> I actually have a different crown in the same vein as the Vantage for the Project GMT.


Fantastic Bill!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


----------



## enkidu

TheDude said:


> Yao said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually have a different crown in the same vein as the Vantage for the Project GMT.
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic Bill!
Click to expand...

Me too! Sounds great!


----------



## 66Cooper

Have never really thought much into it but is that the original reason for the over sized crown? To be able to add more/better seals in it? I LOVE the 6538's big crown and always wondered what a 6542 would look like with one.


----------



## BigHaole

What's the latest thinking on the schedule for this project? I know we're still in the very early phases, and the Project 300 is ahead in line, but I was curious what the general outline would look like for the Key West.


----------



## Arthur

What is the size of the vantage crown. The 6542's didn't have a big crown, I believe they were 6mm. The next model, the 1675 has 5.3 mm crown


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: I checked my Vantage the other day after I read Bill's post above, and I make the crown diameter to be a shade over 6mm - Perfect for the Key West GMT! (IMHO) b-)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

A request to Bill... Please....Would you provide a good image of this so we can drool over it? 









_(Copied from the gallery on MKII web page)_

PLease? Please?? ;-)

Thank You, very much -


----------



## 66Cooper

As posted on the recent gtg post, bill talks of how he used silver instead of the gold of the Kingston on the dial. I remember from 2 gtgs ago that he said wanted a white dial and that silver is how you achieve that. Something about blasting the silver and it turns white???
Bill, is that (be it a terrible description) still the idea? So, under extreme magnification the dial will have a texture to it?


----------



## JohnF

66Cooper said:


> As posted on the recent gtg post, bill talks of how he used silver instead of the gold of the Kingston on the dial. I remember from 2 gtgs ago that he said wanted a white dial and that silver is how you achieve that. Something about blasting the silver and it turns white???
> Bill, is that (be it a terrible description) still the idea? So, under extreme magnification the dial will have a texture to it?


The process is either mechanical (old and inconsistent) or chemical (newer and more consistent if it is done correctly) and is called frosting. Silver frosting done right is a wonderfully lustrous matte silver that is very white, but with much nicer qualities than white paint/pigment. Hard to do right, but if done right can be mass-produced in batches...


----------



## TheDude

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: I checked my Vantage the other day after I read Bill's post above, and I make the crown diameter to be a shade over 6mm - Perfect for the Key West GMT! (IMHO) b-)


It's not the diameter I am concerned about, it's the height of the crown. It needs to be pretty flat to look right.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TheDude

66Cooper said:


> Have never really thought much into it but is that the original reason for the over sized crown? To be able to add more/better seals in it? I LOVE the 6538's big crown and always wondered what a 6542 would look like with one.


Yes. It was done to create a watch that could be rated for a greater depth. Similarly, the GMT always had a twinlock crown until the current reference when it received the Sub crown (Triplock) but the crystal thickness is thinner so it's still only rated to 100M.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 66Cooper

Always great info on here. Thanks guys!


----------



## Fullers1845

Just a beauty dropping in to give you hope... MkII Project GMT will be worth the wait!










(Pic borrowed from Jake's Rolexmagazine.com.)


----------



## POR901

Fullers1845 said:


> Just a beauty dropping in to give you hope... MkII Project GMT will be worth the wait!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Pic borrowed from Jake's Rolexmagazine.com.)


OMG.....that's a thing of beauty!

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a mint 1675 GMT while waiting for the Key West.....


----------



## TheDude

POR901 said:


> OMG.....that's a thing of beauty!


You should see one in person!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## Yao

I spent some time with one of my suppliers talking about the possibility of a lumed sapphire bezel for the Project GMT. Unfortunately I think based on the construction of the Project GMT as it is and with its size constraints this option is DOA. My case supplier did mention the possibility of using acrylic so that may be our last and best hope at this point (did you hear that Charlie!).....BUT this is still a long shot so don't get too excited. We will have to explore this option after the dials and inserts are production. An acrylic option would have to tacked on at the end.

We will resume work on the dial shortly.


----------



## TheDude

Yao said:


> I spent some time with one of my suppliers talking about the possibility of a lumed sapphire bezel for the Project GMT. Unfortunately I think based on the construction of the Project GMT as it is and with its size constraints this option is DOA. My case supplier did mention the possibility of using acrylic so that may be our last and best hope at this point (did you hear that Charlie!).....BUT this is still a long shot so don't get too excited. We will have to explore this option after the dials and inserts are production. An acrylic option would have to tacked on at the end.
> 
> We will resume work on the dial shortly.


No worries Bill. Looking forward to the watch.

Did you get your Astrobasego shirt order in?? :-D

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## cpotters

Yao said:


> Unfortunately I think based on the construction of the Project GMT as it is and with its size constraints this option is DOA. My case supplier did mention the possibility of using acrylic so that may be our last and best hope at this point (did you hear that Charlie!).....


Hahahahahahahaha!


----------



## Arthur

even if there is a possibility of an acrylic insert, I'm still holding out hope!! I definitely think that would be the icing on the cake. There is a guy who is making inserts for the old 6542's He sells them on EBay, his are made of Lexan, They look pretty good. I believe his EBay name is oldferarri.


----------



## POR901

Arthur said:


> even if there is a possibility of an acrylic insert, I'm still holding out hope!! I definitely think that would be the icing on the cake. There is a guy who is making inserts for the old 6542's He sells them on EBay, his are made of Lexan, They look pretty good. I believe his EBay name is oldferarri.


I just saw these and they look pretty damn good....


----------



## Arthur

POR901 said:


> I just saw these and they look pretty damn good....


Yeah, that guy does some pretty nice work. Price isn't too bad either.


----------



## Chromejob

Yao said:


> I spent some time with one of my suppliers talking about the possibility of a lumed sapphire bezel for the Project GMT. Unfortunately I think based on the construction of the Project GMT as it is and with its size constraints this option is DOA. My case supplier did mention the possibility of using acrylic so that may be our last and best hope at this point (did you hear that Charlie!).....BUT this is still a long shot so don't get too excited. We will have to explore this option after the dials and inserts are production. An acrylic option would have to tacked on at the end.
> 
> We will resume work on the dial shortly.


Big THANK YOU for still investigating this. An optional upsell or addition at the end makes sense. As a spare would be good for those who want to switch to aluminum for "rough wear."

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> Big THANK YOU for still investigating this. An optional upsell or addition at the end makes sense. As a spare would be good for those who want to switch to aluminum for "rough wear."
> 
> // Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


Maybe we could try this as a third party project? I know it would be a thankless burden on someone but there are definitely people on the MKII forum I would trust with a pre-pay.


----------



## Packleader

Fullers1845 said:


> Just a beauty dropping in to give you hope... MkII Project GMT will be worth the wait!


To give us hope? Or to turbocharge the anticipation? :think: It really is gorgeous. Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,

Packleader


----------



## Dzunz001

Wondering if their will be a gilt dial option. Anyone know?

Best regards,
Dan


----------



## Dzunz001

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

My heart skipped a beat  after seeing the dials on page 9. Hoping to get my hands on a few of these.


----------



## Dzunz001

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Lastly, with the watch being constructed in homage to the pan am why wasn't Panama GMT considered as a viable name? Had to ask


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Dzunz001 said:


> Lastly, with the watch being constructed in homage to the pan am why wasn't Panama GMT considered as a viable name? Had to ask


When the PanAm GMT project was in it's earlier stages, the folks who were interested voted on the name. Key West won. There were quite a few names suggested, not sure if Panama was one of the candidates. Not sure if there was any tie in with Panama, except possibly it was one of the countries served by PanAm. PanAm is a contraction of Pan American Airlines. The overwhelming choice for a name was PanAm, but that name is copyrighted and still in use, not by and airline,That symbol is now the property of Pan Am Brands, a small division of a regional railway company that owns the storied Pan American World Airways name.Wisely, Bill had no desire to get into a copyright battle over a name, so PanAm was eliminated as a choice.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Dzunz001 said:


> My heart skipped a beat  after seeing the dials on page 9. Hoping to get my hands on a few of these.


A few?


----------



## Dzunz001

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Thanks for the info Arthur!


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

So what's the next step on the Key West?


----------



## TheDude

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



BigHaole said:


> So what's the next step on the Key West?


For us?

Wait.

Pay balance.

Wait.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



TheDude said:


> For us?
> 
> Wait.
> 
> Pay balance.
> 
> Wait.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


Well said, that pretty well sums it up!!


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



TheDude said:


> For us?
> 
> Wait.
> 
> Pay balance.
> 
> Wait.


I guess that means these watches must really be good. This will be my first MKII.


----------



## Darwin

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



TheDude said:


> For us?
> 
> Wait.
> 
> Pay balance.
> 
> Wait.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


The Dude abides!


----------



## Arthur

WOW, there hasn't' been any activity on this thread in 23 days, must be a record!!! Seriously, there sure hasn't been much going on with the "Key West" in a while.I would have thought that there would have been some new updates regarding the "Key West", but apparently not. Time passes fast when you are having fun, but it passes really slow when you are waiting!!


----------



## tmoris

Arthur said:


> WOW, there hasn't' been any activity on this thread in 23 days, must be a record!!! Seriously, there sure hasn't been much going on with the "Key West" in a while.I would have thought that there would have been some new updates regarding the "Key West", but apparently not. Time passes fast when you are having fun, but it passes really slow when you are waiting!!


Well, you should find yourself some fun activity to pass the time then .. 

Sent from my HTC using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

Patience is the best virtue a MkII loyalist can have, and I say that with the utmost kindness and positivity. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Darwin

Tae-kwon-leap master: "First you must learn patience" Student: "Yeah, yeah patience. How long will that take? I wanna start beating up bozos now!"


TheDude said:


> Patience is the best virtue a MkII loyalist can have, and I say that with the utmost kindness and positivity.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


----------



## 66Cooper

Personally, I'm ok with the wait. I need the time to decide on the dial white, black, white, black, I can't make up my mind...


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> Personally, I'm ok with the wait. I need the time to decide on the dial white, black, white, black, I can't make up my mind...


The difference is night and day.


----------



## Arthur

Guys, I have the patience of Job!!! I was in the GO Kingston group, so I'm not worried in the least. I have plenty of things to keep me occupied, so it's no big deal. I definitely know which dial option I want, so just waiting for things to get moving. Plenty of other watches to wear until this one comes to fruition. 
Mainly wanted to see if anyone had heard anything, and reactivate the thread. Have a great day ya'll.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Plat0

Didn't Bill just recently post on FB that he's working on the bezel for the GMT?


----------



## tmoris

Arthur said:


> Guys, I have the patience of Job!!! I was in the GO Kingston group, so I'm not worried in the least. I have plenty of things to keep me occupied, so it's no big deal. I definitely know which dial option I want, so just waiting for things to get moving. Plenty of other watches to wear until this one comes to fruition.
> Mainly wanted to see if anyone had heard anything, and reactivate the thread. Have a great day ya'll.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


hehe  was just joking with you! all regulars here are of the Job kind


----------



## MHe225

Arthur said:


> .... I definitely know which dial option I want ....


Same here, but I'm still hoping that Bill makes both dials available to Plank owners - gilt-white installed and gilt-black for back-up please.

RonB


----------



## JFingers

I'm still leaning towards white dial for me, since my Kingston (and hopefully 3-6-9 Nassau) are/will be black dials. Even though the white dial pan-am was associated with the office staff, rather than the black dial for the pilots... 

Blue skies!
-only jake


----------



## White Tuna

JFingers said:


> I'm still leaning towards white dial for me, since my Kingston (and hopefully 3-6-9 Nassau) are/will be black dials. Even though the white dial pan-am was associated with the office staff, rather than the black dial for the pilots...
> 
> Blue skies!
> -only jake


I have a feeling that a lot of Pan Am Execs at that time were/were once pilots.


----------



## JFingers

White Tuna said:


> I have a feeling that a lot of Pan Am Execs at that time were/were once pilots.


Ok, I'll wear it then, twist my arm...

Blue skies!
-only jake


----------



## BigHaole

I'm really not certain on the white or black face for my KeyWest. If a rootbeer bezel and aged lume were offered as options, I'd go with the black face in a second. Likewise, if I know that rootbeer/aged lume/black face were going to be offered as the "Havana" generally available model, to follow the limited edition KeyWest, then I'd happily go in the opposite direction.

So much will come down to the choices. 

In the Kingston days, were there any live sample/demo pieces photographed or did everyone have to choose their options strictly on artist renderings?


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> I'm really not certain on the white or black face for my KeyWest. If a rootbeer bezel and aged lume were offered as options, I'd go with the black face in a second. Likewise, if I know that rootbeer/aged lume/black face were going to be offered as the "Havana" generally available model, to follow the limited edition KeyWest, then I'd happily go in the opposite direction.
> 
> So much will come down to the choices.
> 
> In the Kingston days, were there any live sample/demo pieces photographed or did everyone have to choose their options strictly on artist renderings?


I think the planks went on renderings with the last GO having the advantage of seeing pics before they ordered? The problem is more information and pictures does not generally make the choice easier. Havana would also be my first choice, but is not an option at this time.


----------



## 66Cooper

A few of us got to see a live sample of the Kingston at one of the NYC GTG's. bill really didn't want to show it as it was not a final same but we were like wolves on a sheep and he eventually gave it up. I can't remember the confit it was but I did have a gilt dial. It was love at first sight!!


----------



## Chromejob

66Cooper said:


> A few of us got to see a live sample of the Kingston at one of the NYC GTG's. bill really didn't want to show it as it was not a final same but we were like wolves on a sheep and he eventually gave it up. I can't remember the confit it was but I did have a gilt dial. It was love at first sight!!


I believe those pics are in the forum. I had a huge nerdgasm when I saw 'em.

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> Havana would also be my first choice, but is not an option at this time.


While I agree that Havana would have been a better name, I was referring to the combination of black face, aged lume, and rootbeer bezel. I really think that will be an awesome combination. If that were to be offered in the generally available followup to the KeyWest(and Havana would be an awesome name for this followup watch), then I would definitely get the KeyWest in white, and add the black/aged/rootbeer GA watch after (have to figure out how I sneak both past the boss, but that's another story).

If there is no promise of a followup, and if a rootbeer bezel is one of the options for the plankholders, then I may get my KeyWest in black, which I think would be much more wearable.


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> While I agree that Havana would have been a better name, I was referring to the combination of black face, aged lume, and rootbeer bezel. I really think that will be an awesome combination. If that were to be offered in the generally available followup to the KeyWest(and Havana would be an awesome name for this followup watch), then I would definitely get the KeyWest in white, and add the black/aged/rootbeer GA watch after (have to figure out how I sneak both past the boss, but that's another story).
> 
> If there is no promise of a followup, and if a rootbeer bezel is one of the options for the plankholders, then I may get my KeyWest in black, which I think would be much more wearable.


I know. I have been pushing for a Root Beer GMT since the start. It is my first choice. But I want a root beer dial, Pepsi or Coke bezel. I never even knew that a gilt dial would be possible after the Kingston but I have to say that a root beer/gilt dial would be mind blowing and truly worthy of the name Havana.


----------



## 66Cooper

Anyone see this gem on eBay? Asking a cool 50k for it. Wow!


----------



## JFingers

66Cooper said:


> Anyone see this gem on eBay? Asking a cool 50k for it. Wow!


As cool as that is, it isn't 50 grand cool (to me, at least). I'd rather have 50 Key Wests for me and all my friends! I am really looking forward to more information on this one... And the 3-6-9 Nassau. And the Fulcrum.

Blue skies,
-jake


----------



## JCW1980

66Cooper said:


> Anyone see this gem on eBay? Asking a cool 50k for it. Wow!


That's beautiful.. Thanks for posting. Ah, to be insanely wealthy... that's the only way I'd ever collect pieces like that. To own a $50k watch would be one thing, but to own one as rare as this one.. I don't think I could wear it. Could you imagine getting mugged?!! Shudder..



JFingers said:


> As cool as that is, it isn't 50 grand cool (to me, at least). I'd rather have 50 Key Wests for me and all my friends! I am really looking forward to more information on this one... And the 3-6-9 Nassau. And the Fulcrum.


Lol, agreed.. have there been any renderings of what we can expect the fulcrum to look like?


----------



## Arthur

After looking at the Robert Maron 6542, the crown looks wrong. The crown seems to be too thin. Possibly it's the photo, but I'm not sure.


----------



## 66Cooper

I thought the same thing. Something off with it. 

If it was up to me (and I'm sure I am alone here) I would LOVE to see the key west with the Kingston big crown.


----------



## JCW1980

I wondered about that too. The inner chamfer looks weird.. but yeah, could be the pic


----------



## Arthur

Somewhere back in the dim dark past that crown was changed. It's not the standard crown that came with the 6542's , too thin, and as you said, the inner chamfer is wrong. I doesn't even look like a Rolex crown to me, at least not anything I have seen, and I have looked at a ton of Rolex crowns. Another thing, Maron has sold some dodgy watches in the past, maybe they don't know any better, but if they get snookered on a trade, they are sure as heck going to pass it along and get their money back. Before I would buy a gen like this one, I would gladly pay someone like Bob Ridley to pass on it before the money changed hands.
VV Putin "trust but verify"!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## JFingers

JCW1980 said:


> Lol, agreed.. have there been any renderings of what we can expect the fulcrum to look like?


Yeah, Bill posted a new photo collection on the MKII website, and the last picture is a picture of his Fulcrum. Whether that's the final product or not, I know not, but it sure looks sweet. Still number 4 on my wish list of MKIIs though, behind a Key West, Vantage and 3-6-9 Nassau. See what I did there? That's how I tied it back into the Key West thread


----------



## JCW1980

JFingers said:


> Yeah, Bill posted a new photo collection on the MKII website, and the last picture is a picture of his Fulcrum.


The Taiwan pic gallery? Yeah, that is a sweet looking watch! Thanks!


----------



## TheDude

66Cooper said:


> Anyone see this gem on eBay? Asking a cool 50k for it. Wow!


I used to see one of these all the time. Belonged to a Masonic brother who recently died. He was a naval aviator. Had been flying since he was 12. His watch was much nicer than the one pictured. He restored clocks and was a real watch/clock guy.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


----------



## BigHaole

Any new updates?


----------



## POR901

I saw this photo while reading HODINKEE's web page today.....any updates on the MKII Key West GMT?


----------



## BigHaole

I wasn't around for the Kingston. How long was it from initial pre-orders to first delivery?


----------



## Chromejob

Years.... 

// Tapatalk 4 on Nexus 4 //


----------



## MHe225

BigHaole said:


> I wasn't around for the Kingston. How long was it from initial pre-orders to first delivery?


I missed the pre-order and had to wait for General Ordering to open. From that day till delivery was only 27 months. 
But let's not dwell in the past as this is all water under the bridge. And you know the disclaimers from financial institutions (paraphrasing): _Past performance is no guarantee for future performance. _;-)

I managed to get in on pre-ordering / early registration for both Project 300 and Project GMT. The clock is at 43 months and 21 months (and counting) respectively. These projects seem to progress slower than the Kingston. It would be nice to see (the light at) the end of the tunnel, but to be honest, I don't really care: I still have a few watches to wear and these will be ready -and fantastic- when they are.

RonB


----------



## gman54

I rarely think about the P300 or Key West project these days; however, I woke up this morning wondering if we'll actually see a completed project. I'm happy to own several MKII watches and happy that MKII seems to be successful. The form, fit, and function are fantastic. I normally wear an MKII; the only other watches that I wear in my collection are my Tsunami and Typhoon. 

As demand for MKII's increases, I'm not sure that Bill can successfully manage the professional and specialist series along with multiple special projects simultaneously and provide reasonable product delivery times. When I placed my orders, I expected that delivery would be a couple of year away. However, in my opinion, three and a half years is not reasonable. I don't see how Bill can continue to produce his fine timepieces and manage customer expectations without a change in operations. The pains of growing a business is felt by all.. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would appreciate some some news or talking points from Bill in the special project threads... Has there been any progress or forward movement?

No, I have will not consider selling my three special project orders. I'll keep waiting albeit impatiently.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

gman54 said:


> I rarely think about the P300 or Key West project these days; however, I woke up this morning wondering if we'll actually see a completed project. I'm happy to own several MKII watches and happy that MKII seems to be successful. The form, fit, and function are fantastic. I normally wear an MKII; the only other watches that I wear in my collection are my Tsunami and Typhoon.
> 
> As demand for MKII's increases, I'm not sure that Bill can successfully manage the professional and specialist series along with multiple special projects simultaneously and provide reasonable product delivery times. When I placed my orders, I expected that delivery would be a couple of year away. However, in my opinion, three and a half years is not reasonable. I don't see how Bill can continue to produce his fine timepieces and manage customer expectations without a change in operations. The pains of growing a business is felt by all.. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would appreciate some some news or talking points from Bill in the special project threads... Has there been any progress or forward movement?
> 
> No, I have will not consider selling my three special project orders. I'll keep waiting albeit impatiently.


I'm right there with you, Buddy. :think:

In my experience, it works out best if you try not to think about 'The Wait' ....

Focus your thoughts instead, *-On the Result-*

-Best to You-

|>|>


----------



## BigHaole

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> I'm right there with you, Buddy. :think:
> 
> In my experience, it works out best if you try not to think about 'The Wait' ....
> 
> Focus your thoughts instead, *-On the Result-*
> 
> -Best to You-
> 
> |>|>


The wait doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of communication. It wouldn't take much time to post a few updates, even once a month, to let us know how things are progressing. On the one hand, Bill makes watches with waiting lists to buy, so he must be doing a lot of things right, but I think a little communication would go a long way, particularly for people, like myself, who are buying their first MKII and first "project" watch.


----------



## White Tuna

I understand people's concerns. I really am not that interested in the communication, but I understand that others are. I know there has been some movement on the Key West. I am more concerned with Project 300. I think there is a challenge about Project 300 that is holding it up and in turn holding up the Key West. I have nothing to base that on. It is just my opinion/feeling/idiocy. 

I know when Project GMT gets to me that I will love it. I will also look down on all those who do not own one! I WILL BE INVINCIBLE! :-d


----------



## Packleader

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## Jfha1210

Just a practical question: If I decide to buy an MKII (i.e. a Nassau) and I have to wait, lets say, 32 weeks, when am I supossed to make the full payment? At the first or at the end of the waiting time?

To me it is very different to wait 32 weeks with my money (or at least, most of it), in my pocket!

As an example, I've just received a wonderful Stowa flieger that I booked 24 weeks ago, but I've only paid for it three weeks ago, when Stowa confirmed me that it was about to be send! And it is the same for, i.e., WUS projects...

Anyway, I would like to be waiting for my MKII GMT...


----------



## White Tuna

Jfha1210, I believe ~half down then you will get a notice when to send the balance. From the time you send the balance you still may have months though. Good luck.


----------



## BigHaole

Now that Bill is back on the project watches, what design element will get discussed next?


----------



## JCW1980

Somebody should post a tally of the design elements that have been solidified at this point. The design really hasn't been discussed in a long time. 

Generally, I think the settled items were some of the Kingston components (case, bracelet), colors (black and white dials, pepsi and coke bezels), smaller crown than the Kingston.

The popular discussion points have been: more color combos (rootbeer?), cyclops, bezel insert material, dial print color, etc.


----------



## Axelay2003

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I am on the waitlist. Is there anyone willing to give up their preorder spot?


----------



## mlb212

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Axelay2003 said:


> I am on the waitlist. Is there anyone willing to give up their preorder spot?


How did you get on this "waitlist"?


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



mlb212 said:


> How did you get on this "waitlist"?


There was a wait list open for a while but I believe even that has even been filled and closed at this point.


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I thought it was a mailing list to be notified, when the general availability round opens.


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



mlb212 said:


> How did you get on this "waitlist"?





BigHaole said:


> I thought it was a mailing list to be notified, when the general availability round opens.


Yeah, it's not really a "waitlist." Bill had suggested to people who missed out on the 60 piece pre-order to go to www.mkiiwatches.com to sign up for the mailing list. This should be one of the best ways to stay informed about when the ordering for the final 190 pieces is going to open. Of course the other way is to just keep checking the MKII forum and the MKII website. History has indicated that the people who are most vigilant/obsessive about keeping tabs on the various MKII portals are the ones who end up on the lists. Good luck. :-!


----------



## Yao

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Hi guys....right now we are trying to find a good font for the bezel. I am trying to nail this down before completing the dial design since it is important that the two pieces "work" together visually. So far this is the best I have found even if it means having to modify the fonts:

Ultima Pro - Webfont & Desktop font « MyFonts


----------



## JFingers

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Yao said:


> So far this is the best I have found even if it means having to modify the fonts:
> 
> Ultima Pro - Webfont & Desktop font « MyFonts


When I first looked at the fonts, I thought "man, way too wide and curvy." Then I put my Kingston on and scrutinized the lettering on it, and thought "dang, I guess that's kind of wide, too." I reckon you have to make the font wider if its going to be that small so as to maintain legibility. I like the Ultima Pro Light, with the Ultima Pro Light Italic for units of measure (m and ft). One question though, would you use that font for the WR numbers as well?

Also, it made my day to see you post in this thread again. I'm really, REALLY looking forward to this watch.

Blue skies,
-only Jake


----------



## POR901

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Thanks for the update Bill 

Dumb question.....do the font styles have to differ all that much from the Kingston or Nassau? I understand the need for maybe a bolder / thicker font.....but why the change in style?


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



POR901 said:


> Thanks for the update Bill
> 
> Dumb question.....do the font styles have to differ all that much from the Kingston or Nassau? I understand the need for maybe a bolder / thicker font.....but why the change in style?


My guess is that Bill is looking for a font that will look good and work with the roulette date wheel font....


----------



## JCW1980

I was looking at it and comparing to the Kingston I happen to have on my wrist today.. I think I like the Ultima Pro.


----------



## tmr5555

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



Yao said:


> Hi guys....right now we are trying to find a good font for the bezel. I am trying to nail this down before completing the dial design since it is important that the two pieces "work" together visually. So far this is the best I have found even if it means having to modify the fonts:
> 
> Ultima Pro - Webfont & Desktop font « MyFonts


Hi Bill i'm a designer and would love to collaborate on the font. 
Making something from scratch wouldn't be too difficult.
I'd do it for good karma too


----------



## Dragoon

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I guess this could take a while. Cheerio!



White Tuna said:


> My guess is that Bill is looking for a font that will look good and work with the roulette date wheel font....


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

I like the curvy, but i was really hoping for the open 6s and 9s on the date wheel.


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



BigHaole said:


> I like the curvy, but i was really hoping for the open 6s and 9s on the date wheel.


Is Bill going to go with the same font everywhere on the watch?


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



BigHaole said:


> I like the curvy, but i was really hoping for the open 6s and 9s on the date wheel.


Yes, I loved the font that was shown a while back with the open 6's and 9's on the date wheel. I do not think Bill went with that font on the date wheel though.


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Open 9:










BTW: I love that bezel font but do not think it would look as good in aluminum.


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



White Tuna said:


> Open 9:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW: I love that bezel font but do not think it would look as good in aluminum.


LOVE that date wheel!
I'm fine with the bezel font, but I'm still holding out hope for something other than aluminum.
Please, please, please give us a larger triangle with more lume! Somewhere between that tiny classic one and the over-sized modern version.


----------



## TheDude

I stated before that I have a strong desire to see the font follow the original at least as closely as the Kingston followed the original. 

I really think that contributed to making the Kingston the legend it is. When stuff starts changing then bad things happen. The 1 and 6 on of the linked font aren't right but the remaining numerals look close. The 9 probably should be like the 6 also. 

I was the one originally talking up open date wheels... 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

Dude,
I'm with you on this. The originals are iconic, why stray too far from what worked before. I also would like to see the bezel made from something other than aluminum. Acrylic, sapphire, ceramic, I don't really care. Those old Bakelite bezels were what made the 6542. Once they started replacing them with aluminum, they were just 1675's without crown guards!! I also really love the old open 6&9 DW fonts, of course the old Rolexes had flat top 3's as well. Since Rolex patents on the 6542 ran out decades ago, you could literally clone that watch without any of the Rolex markings such as the Coronet and Rolex and be perfectly safe. Not saying that Bill should do that, but he doesn't have to make any radical changes to be safe.


----------



## AlphaWolf777

TheDude said:


> I stated before that I have a strong desire to see the font follow the original at least as closely as the Kingston followed the original.
> 
> I really think that contributed to making the Kingston the legend it is. When stuff starts changing then bad things happen. The 1 and 6 on of the linked font aren't right but the remaining numerals look close. The 9 probably should be like the 6 also.
> 
> I was the one originally talking up open date wheels...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk





Arthur said:


> Dude,
> I'm with you on this. The originals are iconic, why stray too far from what worked before. I also would like to see the bezel made from something other than aluminum. Acrylic, sapphire, ceramic, I don't really care. Those old Bakelite bezels were what made the 6542. Once they started replacing them with aluminum, they were just 1675's without crown guards!! I also really love the old open 6&9 DW fonts, of course the old Rolexes had flat top 3's as well. Since Rolex patents on the 6542 ran out decades ago, you could literally clone that watch without any of the Rolex markings such as the Coronet and Rolex and be perfectly safe. Not saying that Bill should do that, but he doesn't have to make any radical changes to be safe.


Agreed. I think what separates a good homage from an extraordinary homage is when they stay as true as possible to the originals.


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> I stated before that I have a strong desire to see the font follow the original at least as closely as the Kingston followed the original.
> 
> I really think that contributed to making the Kingston the legend it is. When stuff starts changing then bad things happen. The 1 and 6 on of the linked font aren't right but the remaining numerals look close. The 9 probably should be like the 6 also.
> 
> *I was the one originally talking up open date wheels... *
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Yes, that is the only reason I know what an open 6 and 9 were.  I borrowed the picture from earlier in this thread. Do you remember what happened with the conversation you started? I think that it was decided we are not going with the open 6's and 9's on the roulette date wheel. I love the look of the older font myself but I think that battle is over.


----------



## White Tuna

Arthur said:


> Dude,
> I'm with you on this. The originals are iconic, why stray too far from what worked before. I also would like to see the bezel made from something other than aluminum. Acrylic, sapphire, ceramic, I don't really care. Those old Bakelite bezels were what made the 6542. Once they started replacing them with aluminum, they were just 1675's without crown guards!! I also really love the old open 6&9 DW fonts, of course the old Rolexes had flat top 3's as well. Since Rolex patents on the 6542 ran out decades ago, you could literally clone that watch without any of the Rolex markings such as the Coronet and Rolex and be perfectly safe. Not saying that Bill should do that, but he doesn't have to make any radical changes to be safe.


I know that bakelite is not an option, but I cannot believe that there is no plastic based substitute that is stronger and more durable. I mean that stuff they used to package CD's (Remember CD's?) in was pretty much indestructible!


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> Yes, that is the only reason I know what an open 6 and 9 were.  I borrowed the picture from earlier in this thread. Do you remember what happened with the conversation you started? I think that it was decided we are not going with the open 6's and 9's on the roulette date wheel. I love the look of the older font myself but I think that battle is over.


I actually don't recall that. Would be interested in being pointed to the location of that please.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> I actually don't recall that. Would be interested in being pointed to the location of that please.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


How would you like the PanAm to look? - Page 10

How would you like the PanAm to look? - Page 11


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> I know that bakelite is not an option, but I cannot believe that there is no plastic based substitute that is stronger and more durable. I mean that stuff they used to package CD's (Remember CD's?) in was pretty much indestructible!


CD plastic is polycarbonate, and if my memory serves me correctly also fighter jet cockpit canopies and greenhouse panes.


----------



## White Tuna

mlb212 said:


> CD plastic is polycarbonate, and if my memory serves me correctly also fighter jet cockpit canopies and greenhouse panes.


[rant]

I know you are trying to help but this just pisses me off! CD COMPANIES WHY WOULD YOU PACK MY CD's IN JET FIGHTER COCKPIT!!!! Really, I know you young kids do not have to deal with this but this plastic was sooooooo effing annoying!!!









[/rant]

Good info, thank you mlb212.


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> How would you like the PanAm to look? - Page 10
> 
> How would you like the PanAm to look? - Page 11


That discussion was sooooooo two years ago! (Seriously, in a few days it will be 2 years!)

I think Bill said that we were not going to copy the font from the original. I did not take that to mean that we couldn't have open 6s and 9s.

It's interesting how we each value different aspects of the project, which is cool about a group project like this. For me:
1. Getting the roulette date wheel as close to the original as possible is probably my top ask.
2. I'd like to see the bezel be a "modernization" item. Sapphire would be the perfect way to "improve" the watch, while still remembering the origins.
3. The crystal is something that I would be willing to compromise. Whichever option gets our watch built quickly is fine with me.


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> That discussion was sooooooo two years ago! (Seriously, in a few days it will be 2 years!)
> 
> I think Bill said that we were not going to copy the font from the original. I did not take that to mean that we couldn't have open 6s and 9s.
> 
> It's interesting how we each value different aspects of the project, which is cool about a group project like this. For me:
> 1. Getting the roulette date wheel as close to the original as possible is probably my top ask.
> 2. I'd like to see the bezel be a "modernization" item. Sapphire would be the perfect way to "improve" the watch, while still remembering the origins.
> 3. The crystal is something that I would be willing to compromise. Whichever option gets our watch built quickly is fine with me.


I sort of feel the same about the bezel insert, like I said above, acrylic, lexan,sapphire, ceramic, anything that closely resembles the original Bakelite.


----------



## Yao

Sorry for the delay. I have been working on the bezel design and so far it is "unpresentable" to put it gently so I haven't posted the design yet.


----------



## JFingers

Yao said:


> Sorry for the delay. I have been working on the bezel design and so far it is "unpresentable" to put it gently so I haven't posted the design yet.


Bill,
I think most of us are just diggin' the fact the project is rolling again! Hell yeah!
Blue skies,
-only jake


----------



## JCW1980

JFingers said:


> ...diggin' the fact the project is rolling again!


+1


----------



## Dragoon

I guess if this was "a slam dunk and off to the next masterpiece" then more watch maestros would of already have produced domed bezel homages to this piece which were incredible.

Some type of clear coating would be nice on this bezel to give the visual of the bakelite be it acrylic, sapphire, ect. I agree that it is an important attribute and maybe a defining feature of this piece. But, I am good with just about any option at this point.

Taken from the Prometheius sailfish thread over on the Prometheus Forum on WUS . Image by The Watch Topographer....



















I know that O7 and Prometheus have both done or are in the process of doing domed sapphire bezel inserts on reasonably priced watches in the $400 -$600 range. Not sure if this is an option at this point or not but would be blown away if it happened.


----------



## Yao

JFingers said:


> Bill,
> I think most of us are just diggin' the fact the project is rolling again! Hell yeah!
> Blue skies,
> -only jake


I hope to resume work over the weekend. I have had the wife working on the font and it hasn't been easy to dig up something that is close...forget about anything that is the same. So we started with a standard font and are re-working it to suit. Its an iterative process....I already went through one iteration (the un-presentable version) and am trying this next idea.

The first attempt was trying to use a font with rounded ends like the Bakelite font but it basically looks terrible in aluminum. I am working with a similar font but with squared ends and hoping for better results. As for an acrylic insert that will have to wait..

A domed sapphire bezel won't work with this design. A sloped sapphire bezel was something that I was working on for over a year, asking different vendors and trying a number of different constructions. Sadly in Basel it became clear that a sloped sapphire inlay wasn't going to work on the design. Basically in a nutshell the watch would have to have drastically different proportions to fit a sloped sapphire inlay.


----------



## BigHaole

Yao said:


> Basically in a nutshell the watch would have to have drastically different proportions to fit a sloped sapphire inlay.


Personally, I would have no objections if part of your modernization-of-a-classic-design included making it a little bigger (42mm?), but I bet I'm in the minority on this opinion.


----------



## JCW1980

BigHaole said:


> Personally, I would have no objections if part of your modernization-of-a-classic-design included making it a little bigger (42mm?), but I bet I'm in the minority on this opinion.


I like that the Kingston has a more classically sized case at sub 40mm, especially since it's an homage to a vintage piece, and really would prefer the GMT to stay in that realm.

Increasing the case size on this project would also send the whole design and procurement process "back to the drawing board," and who knows how many months or years that would tack on to the eventual delivery date.

I also like that this watch will probably share many parts with the Kingston (case, bracelet). They'll look amazing sitting next to each other in a watch box. :thumbsup:

My humble $0.02


----------



## JFingers

JCW1980 said:


> I also like that this watch will probably share many parts with the Kingston (case, bracelet). They'll look amazing sitting next to each other in a watch box.


I agree with you, except for the above statement. Either one or the other will be on my wrist, it is unlikely they would ever be on the nightstand at the same time. Provided I can get one of course.

Blue skies, y'all!
-only jake


----------



## BigHaole

JCW1980 said:


> I also like that this watch will probably share many parts with the Kingston (case, bracelet).


That's right! This project is going to be faster, because of the shared parts. Sorry, Bill, I couldn't resist.

In truth, though, the "back to the drawing board" aspect would further extend the delivery date, which would not be good. I just really would have liked a sapphire bezel.


----------



## TheDude

I have always said that I am okay with aluminum as long as the color and finish is right and the font is right. 

What's wrong with the Kingston font?? 

Oh, and how many of the folks who are offering guidance have a secured pre-order? Not for nothing, but I would bet a significant percentage of people offering input will never get the opportunity to buy one... I would hate to end up with a compromise I didn't like because of someone who won't even end up with one. Hate me for saying it, but I can't be the only one thinking it. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## tomr

I concur. After waiting three years for my Kingston, I signed up for the Key West assuming that the use of the Kingston case, as well as the avoidance of delaying issues in the design of the Kingston, would shorten the delivery time. That, unfortunately, does not appear likely to be realized. Therefore, it is my hope that Bill minimizes the design-by-committee methodology in order to move development along, with perhaps an occasional sign-off or poll among the pre-order members, who have their investment to justify such.



TheDude said:


> I have always said that I am okay with aluminum as long as the color and finish is right and the font is right.
> 
> What's wrong with the Kingston font??
> 
> Oh, and how many of the folks who are offering guidance have a secured pre-order? Not for nothing, but I would bet a significant percentage of people offering input will never get the opportunity to buy one... I would hate to end up with a compromise I didn't like because of someone who won't even end up with one. Hate me for saying it, but I can't be the only one thinking it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

tomr said:


> I concur. After waiting three years for my Kingston, I signed up for the Key West assuming that the use of the Kingston case, as well as the avoidance of delaying issues in the design of the Kingston, would shorten the delivery time. That, unfortunately, does not appear likely to be realized. Therefore, it is my hope that Bill minimizes the design-by-committee methodology in order to move development along, with perhaps an occasional sign-off or poll among the pre-order members, who have their investment to justify such.


I don't think it's been the "by committee" aspect that has slowed down this project.

And for those keeping score, I am a GMT order holder and have been, since January 20th, 2012.


----------



## JCW1980

BigHaole said:


> ...since January 20th, 2012.


I was thinking about this the other day. Can't believe it's been almost two years since the pre-order already. Where does the time go?


----------



## Yao

It took a while to get the fonts created for the bezel but here they are. We have two versions. V1.1. is with a rounded end-ed font and V1.2 is with a square ended font.

Basically the design is done but I have to go back to tweak the proportions and the alignment of the numbers and text. (Sorry just noticed a mistake at the 60 minute marker that will be corrected.)

The bezel design here is intended to be applied to aluminum. As such I personally prefer v.1.2. I did v1.1 only because someone way back when said they wanted to see it and I thought it might look interesting but in my opinion it is just trying too hard to mimic acrylic when its not.

As far as production goes....the cases are done and will be delivered at the end of December. That just leaves the production of the bezel inserts, dials and hands. As long as there are no major objections the Project GMT can likely launch in Summer 2014.

We will move onto the case back design as long as there are no major objections so the bezel and dial designs. Case back engraving will take less time than the production of the inserts, dials and hands.


----------



## Thieuster

V1.1 looks a little more subtile, so to speak. But I'm not disappointed when it's going to be V1.2!

Another question: will the black dialed version come as a 'Coke' version and the white dialed as a 'Pepsi'? Or...

It's great that you share the timepath with us. And I'm sure that none of us will mind seeing a few 'from the workbench' pictures with wall to wall Key West cases etc.

About the back: I think it should echo a fifties theme! Something with a jet, (propulsion like swoosh), blinking star etc. As long as it doesn't reflect the PanAm logo (copyright etc). or something with the time zones: a map of the world with the timezones perhaps?

Just my 2c. 

Menno


----------



## 66Cooper

Awesome to see some progress. Thanks bill !!


----------



## MHe225

I'm with Menno: v1.1 looks slightly more subtle and refined but either one will make me happy.

I know we have discussed case-back engravings at length, but don't recall if we ever reached consensus (not likely) or a conclusion. Some yet, preferably similar to the PanAm planes of the era, or globe with time zones and all, sound equally appealing.

There has also been mention of adding "the other dial" to the Plank-kits - that would be the ticket, white (gilt) dial & Pepsi bezel installed, black (gilt) dial & Coke bezel in the kit (or vice versa).

Summer 2014 is here before we know it .... here's too hoping for smooth sailing and no bumps in the road.

Thanks for sharing the pics and info, Bill. I know I speak for most -if not all- when saying that it's much appreciated.
Happy Thanksgiving to you, yours and all reading who celebrate this holiday.

RonB


----------



## Yao

Thieuster said:


> V1.1 looks a little more subtile, so to speak. But I'm not disappointed when it's going to be V1.2!
> 
> Another question: will the black dialed version come as a 'Coke' version and the white dialed as a 'Pepsi'? Or...
> 
> It's great that you share the timepath with us. And I'm sure that none of us will mind seeing a few 'from the workbench' pictures with wall to wall Key West cases etc.
> 
> About the back: I think it should echo a fifties theme! Something with a jet, (propulsion like swoosh), blinking star etc. As long as it doesn't reflect the PanAm logo (copyright etc). or something with the time zones: a map of the world with the timezones perhaps?
> 
> Just my 2c.
> 
> Menno


Hi Menno,

Since the bezel is a separate part we can put whichever combination one would want. It doesn't have to be as pictured here. I just did that because I thought 8 versions might start to get a little confusing. But certainly you can do any combination of the bezel and the dial as desired.


----------



## Yao

MHe225 said:


> I know we have discussed case-back engravings at length, but don't recall if we ever reached consensus (not likely) or a conclusion. Some yet, preferably similar to the PanAm planes of the era, or globe with time zones and all, sound equally appealing.
> 
> There has also been mention of adding "the other dial" to the Plank-kits - that would be the ticket, white (gilt) dial & Pepsi bezel installed, black (gilt) dial & Coke bezel in the kit (or vice versa).


I have a book that details the artwork of the era and I will see if I can come up with something. I may need to beg one of my in-laws for help, since she is actually a professional illustrator.'

The idea of doing spare dials and bezels is something that would be nice but when I did it for the Kingston it ended up being a tremendous time-sink because of all the possible combinations and all the QC work that had to be done just to ship one watch. I didn't post that as part of the offer this time because of the all the delays the parts kit created.


----------



## messenius

Someone posted this picture a while back and I added some lines to it. But still it might be to close of the original...


----------



## Neily_San

Yao said:


> The idea of doing spare dials and bezels is something that would be nice but when I did it for the Kingston it ended up being a tremendous time-sink because of all the possible combinations and all the QC work that had to be done just to ship one watch. I didn't post that as part of the offer this time because of the all the delays the parts kit created.


I would certainly not wish to hold Key West deliveries this coming summer by the inclusion of spares kits. However I would be more than happy to pay for a dial / bezel kit after all the pre-order deliveries have been made.

Neily


----------



## Thieuster

Or something like this (from the CanStock site):








I looked for a B&W version of the pic.

Menno


----------



## Yao

Thieuster said:


> Or something like this (from the CanStock site):
> View attachment 1295433
> 
> 
> I looked for a B&W version of the pic.
> 
> Menno


Interesting!


----------



## BigHaole

V1.2 looks absolutely stunning!

Bill, will the bezel be something that we can easily change ourselves? If so, having multiple bezels, at a separate charge, might be a nice win-win. Changing color combinations should (I hope) be relatively easy for you, and I know I would happily purchase them if I could easily swap them myself. I think that may be a nice compromise from the full spares kit with the Kingston Planks, and we could pay for the added time/effort you would take, by purchasing these different bezels. You could even have one bezel that is unique to the Key West, with the Plank Kit. Then, when you launch the regularly available version, there will always be something special just to the Key West.


----------



## Yao

BigHaole said:


> V1.2 looks absolutely stunning!
> 
> Bill, will the bezel be something that we can easily change ourselves? If so, having multiple bezels, at a separate charge, might be a nice win-win. Changing color combinations should (I hope) be relatively easy for you, and I know I would happily purchase them if I could easily swap them myself. I think that may be a nice compromise from the full spares kit with the Kingston Planks, and we could pay for the added time/effort you would take, by purchasing these different bezels. You could even have one bezel that is unique to the Key West, with the Plank Kit. Then, when you launch the regularly available version, there will always be something special just to the Key West.


To be honest I thought at one point things like bezel changes were something that anyone can do but I have seen too many botched customizations to feel that way any more. I would not recommend it. I would suggest only purchasing what you need for spares. I don't relish the idea of having that conversation where people ask me to fix something for free that they damaged themselves - which has happened more times that I can recount.


----------



## ayung

Yao said:


> It took a while to get the fonts created for the bezel but here they are. We have two versions. V1.1. is with a rounded end-ed font and V1.2 is with a square ended font.
> 
> Basically the design is done but I have to go back to tweak the proportions and the alignment of the numbers and text. (Sorry just noticed a mistake at the 60 minute marker that will be corrected.)
> 
> The bezel design here is intended to be applied to aluminum. As such I personally prefer v.1.2. I did v1.1 only because someone way back when said they wanted to see it and I thought it might look interesting but in my opinion it is just trying too hard to mimic acrylic when its not.
> 
> As far as production goes....the cases are done and will be delivered at the end of December. That just leaves the production of the bezel inserts, dials and hands. As long as there are no major objections the Project GMT can likely launch in Summer 2014.
> 
> We will move onto the case back design as long as there are no major objections so the bezel and dial designs. Case back engraving will take less time than the production of the inserts, dials and hands.
> 
> View attachment 1295274
> 
> 
> View attachment 1295273


oh my.. really need to get these next year!!


----------



## enkidu

V1.2 by a country mile for me. v1.1 looks indecisive and a bit too thin.


----------



## tomr

Bill, Thanks for the update and the illustrations. I also prefer V1.2, and agree with enkidu that V1.1 appears too thin.

Can we assume that, based upon the illustration, that both a "Coke" and "Pepsi" bezel will be available? And, if so, will the pre-orders, who are promised a spare bezel and aluminum inlay, be allowed to order both? 

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, as well as all forum members here.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

enkidu said:


> V1.2 by a country mile for me. v1.1 looks indecisive and a bit too thin.


(What he said....)

_Thats-a what I say.._..;-)

|>|>

p.s. Thanks! to Bill!


----------



## POR901

Thanks for the update Bill.....exciting stuff! The V1.2 bezel design has my vote as well. The Pepsi bezel with black dial will be on my Key West this coming summer .


----------



## curt941

OMFG! White dial v1.2 Pepsi for the love of god yes! I can't believe I couldn't make a deposit at the time, I hope I'm by a computer when general orders start because these are going to go for a fortune on the secondary market.

Bill, are you planning a layman version for this watch like the Nassau is to the Kingston?


----------



## Yao

tomr said:


> Bill, Thanks for the update and the illustrations. I also prefer V1.2, and agree with enkidu that V1.1 appears too thin.
> 
> Can we assume that, based upon the illustration, that both a "Coke" and "Pepsi" bezel will be available? And, if so, will the pre-orders, who are promised a spare bezel and aluminum inlay, be allowed to order both?
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, as well as all forum members here.


Yes will be allowed to order both bezels. One for your watch and the other for your spares but note as well that we can not provide you with technical information about how to remove and replace the bezels. We just can't assume the responsibility that it would imply if damage were to ensue. The spares are meant to be just that....spare parts for repair.


----------



## Jfha1210

Secondary market? 
I only want one for my wrist!!!


----------



## JFingers

Up front, I have no money in the pot right now, but I can't wait to buy in and I check WUS and the MKII website at least 3x a day to make sure I don't miss out on this project. Pepsi bezel with white dial, V1.2, for the love of all that is good and holy in this world. With unlimited funds, I'd also want the coke bezeled black dialed one, but I think my Kingston (#168) will suffice as far as gorgeous black and gilt will do.

Ladies and gentlemen, this made my week.

Blue skies, y'all!
-only Jake


----------



## MHe225

Yao said:


> To be honest I thought at one point things like bezel changes were something that anyone can do but I have seen too many botched customizations to feel that way any more. I would not recommend it. I would suggest only purchasing what you need for spares. I don't relish the idea of having that conversation where people ask me to fix something for free that they damaged themselves - which has happened more times that I can recount.


Valid points and totally understandable. There are alternatives, though .... too late for the Key West, I presume, but something to consider for future models: are you familiar with the bezel mounting method of Ocean7's LM7 Professional (homage to Omega's PloProf)? Three tiny screws, less than a minute and the appearance of the watch changes completely with a different (color) bezel in place. Take a look here

RonB


----------



## mlb212

Bill,
Are you sure you don't need another ~60 pre-orders at this stage in the project? Some of us are dying to get in on this.


----------



## Yao

curt941 said:


> OMFG! White dial v1.2 Pepsi for the love of god yes! I can't believe I couldn't make a deposit at the time, I hope I'm by a computer when general orders start because these are going to go for a fortune on the secondary market.
> 
> Bill, are you planning a layman version for this watch like the Nassau is to the Kingston?


Our ability to built more Project GMT's is basically constrained by the supply of 2893s. Soprod has an alternative but it is expensive. So if we ever do a "general" release of this watch by default it will have to be more expensive than the Project GMT will be. The price of the Project GMT movements have already been fixed so there is no change there.


----------



## Dragoon

Bill,

Can you give us any more information on the dials themselves? The black looks very similar to the gilt dials on the Kingstons? Are they also going to be gilted with the same elaborate process that made the Kingston dials so amazing? Hopefully so.

And with the white/cream dial versions. Have you decided on a specific color for the dial? And will the process for creating the gilt dial effects be similar to the process used on the Kingston?

I also like v1.2 on the bezels.....looks amazing and much more impressive than I imagined an aluminum insert could appear with this particular model.

Also, I havent been following the design thread as closely as I would like but I was wondering about the extra parts/pieces that may or may not be included with this purchase. Did you finalize exactly what extra would be included? It sounds like a bezel and bezel insert? Or is that just something we have the ability to purchase as an option. 

Would it be possible to purchase the other dial as an add on expense to the kit? I suppose if you knew in advance of dial production you could just have some extra dials produced to reflect the optional dial purchases? Just a thought.

Have a great thanksgiving!


----------



## curt941

So the only project GMT watches will be the pre-orders?



Yao said:


> Our ability to built more Project GMT's is basically constrained by the supply of 2893s. Soprod has an alternative but it is expensive. So if we ever do a "general" release of this watch by default it will have to be more expensive than the Project GMT will be. The price of the Project GMT movements have already been fixed so there is no change there.


----------



## Yao

curt941 said:


> So the only project GMT watches will be the pre-orders?


There will be about 300 watches and only about 60-70 are spoken for right now. I haven't figured out how to release the remaining spots yet.


----------



## Yao

mlb212 said:


> Bill,
> Are you sure you don't need another ~60 pre-orders at this stage in the project? Some of us are dying to get in on this.


Still trying to figure that out right now.


----------



## Yao

Dragoon said:


> Bill,
> 
> Can you give us any more information on the dials themselves? The black looks very similar to the gilt dials on the Kingstons? Are they also going to be gilted with the same elaborate process that made the Kingston dials so amazing? Hopefully so.
> 
> And with the white/cream dial versions. Have you decided on a specific color for the dial? And will the process for creating the gilt dial effects be similar to the process used on the Kingston?
> 
> I also like v1.2 on the bezels.....looks amazing and much more impressive than I imagined an aluminum insert could appear with this particular model.
> 
> Also, I havent been following the design thread as closely as I would like but I was wondering about the extra parts/pieces that may or may not be included with this purchase. Did you finalize exactly what extra would be included? It sounds like a bezel and bezel insert? Or is that just something we have the ability to purchase as an option.
> 
> Would it be possible to purchase the other dial as an add on expense to the kit? I suppose if you knew in advance of dial production you could just have some extra dials produced to reflect the optional dial purchases? Just a thought.
> 
> Have a great thanksgiving!


The Black dial will be gilt/black like the Kingston. The white dial will be gold and white using a process similar to the Kingston.


----------



## curt941

Ok, great. I misunderstood your post and thought only the pre-orders would be made. I would say start a sign up list or just do another run of orders. Shoot at this I'll pay full price up front. If I remember the preorder was 50% at $600 or $650 right? If full price is $1200-1300 I would gladly pay that right now to secure a spot.



Yao said:


> There will be about 300 watches and only about 60-70 are spoken for right now. I haven't figured out how to release the remaining spots yet.


----------



## BigHaole

Yao said:


> The Black dial will be gilt/black like the Kingston. The white dial will be gold and white using a process similar to the Kingston.


Will there be an opportunity to see photos of prototype dials, before we have to decide? I love the look of the coke bezel with black dial, but I'm wondering if I'll kick myself for not getting a white dialed version, for the sheer uniqueness.


----------



## mlb212

curt941 said:


> Ok, great. I misunderstood your post and thought only the pre-orders would be made. I would say start a sign up list or just do another run of orders. Shoot at this I'll pay full price up front. If I remember the preorder was 50% at $600 or $650 right? If full price is $1200-1300 I would gladly pay that right now to secure a spot.


Me too. Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## messenius

I like v1.1 more as it has thinner and more subtle font and therefore suits more to the vintage feel of the watch. Also with bolder font the insert becomes more prominent compared to the dial which helps to read the timezones but then again makes reading time a bit more difficult IMHO


----------



## Reintitan

Hi Bill,

Great work. I prefer v1.2 and Pepsi all the way. I'm really torn on which dial to choose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Plank owners were to get spare dials as well as bezels? Happy Thanksgiving.


----------



## Thieuster

Here's another idea for the case back.

I was thinking along the line of 'time', '24hr', 'long distance flying', time zones and 'meridians', when I realised that a LOXODROME or RHUMB LINE covers it all!
Just look it up: Rhumb line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And a nice graphic B&W loxodrome pic:









There are nicer graphics on Google, but too large to post them here.

Happy Thanksgiving to you guys (overhere in Holland, we don't have that holiday. A normal working day here)

Menno


----------



## JPMIA

Yao said:


> There will be about 300 watches and only about 60-70 are spoken for right now. I haven't figured out how to release the remaining spots yet.


What about going by the waitlist? I'll be happy to pay the full thing upfront too!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: That is Very Interesting...... Thanks Menno. b-)

I like your graphic here. That is pretty unique, and might fill out the circular space on the case back very well, but still allow for text around the circumference of the back.

-Best-

|>|>


----------



## lipjin

Interesting - I'm in the project 300 but didn't get on the key west but would like to get on if possible. Nice work Bill!


----------



## STEELINOX

Yao said:


> There will be about 300 watches and only about 60-70 are spoken for right now. I haven't figured out how to release the remaining spots yet.


I'm ready for signing in for the next run !


----------



## curt941

Just went back and checked. Pre order was $600 to get in at a price of $1195+tax. MSRP was to be $1395. I would gladly pay that right now to secure a spot.

Bill, Have you decided on C3 or BGW9 for the watch, or is that going to be a customization part of the watch for each buyer?

Thanks,

Curtis


----------



## BigHaole

Bill,

At one point, there was talk of the blue, on the Pepsi bezel, being a very dark blue. Your sample picture looks more like the blue on the last generation of Pepsi bezels. Can you clarify if this will be the very dark blue or a more contemporary Pepsi bezel. Thanks.


----------



## nick_sixx

This looks great. Can't wait to see the finished result


----------



## Chromejob

Yao said:


> It took a while to get the fonts created for the bezel but here they are. We have two versions. V1.1. is with a rounded end-ed font and V1.2 is with a square ended font.
> 
> Basically the design is done but I have to go back to tweak the proportions and the alignment of the numbers and text. (Sorry just noticed a mistake at the 60 minute marker that will be corrected.)
> 
> The bezel design here is intended to be applied to aluminum. As such I personally prefer v.1.2. I did v1.1 only because someone way back when said they wanted to see it and I thought it might look interesting but in my opinion it is just trying too hard to mimic acrylic when its not....
> View attachment 1295274
> 
> 
> View attachment 1295273


I actually like 1.1. better. Seems we see the style of squared off font everywhere these days, while the more rounded font is old-fashioned. 1.1 also seems slightly lighter (thinner) and truer to the original. The thinner font nicely complements the smaller 24hr hand and dial printing, as well as the min/sec hands. A heavier font on the bezel while most else is elegant and understated seems an anachronism.

My 2¢.

Addendum: now I see. From the "2" it looks like 1.1 is the same minimalist font on the Kingston. I really like how understated the Kingston's bezel is.










Thank you for the glimpse into the progress, Bill, a wonderful Thanksgiving gift.

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## Yao

BigHaole said:


> Bill,
> 
> At one point, there was talk of the blue, on the Pepsi bezel, being a very dark blue. Your sample picture looks more like the blue on the last generation of Pepsi bezels. Can you clarify if this will be the very dark blue or a more contemporary Pepsi bezel. Thanks.


I haven't decided yet. I just used the blue/red combo from something that I had worked on before without putting much thought into it. Selecting/finalizing the colors will be another step I have to go through.


----------



## White Tuna

Yao said:


> It took a while to get the fonts created for the bezel but here they are. We have two versions. V1.1. is with a rounded end-ed font and V1.2 is with a square ended font.
> 
> Basically the design is done but I have to go back to tweak the proportions and the alignment of the numbers and text. (Sorry just noticed a mistake at the 60 minute marker that will be corrected.)
> 
> The bezel design here is intended to be applied to aluminum. As such I personally prefer v.1.2. I did v1.1 only because someone way back when said they wanted to see it and I thought it might look interesting but in my opinion it is just trying too hard to mimic acrylic when its not.
> 
> As far as production goes....the cases are done and will be delivered at the end of December. That just leaves the production of the bezel inserts, dials and hands. As long as there are no major objections the Project GMT can likely launch in Summer 2014.
> 
> We will move onto the case back design as long as there are no major objections so the bezel and dial designs. Case back engraving will take less time than the production of the inserts, dials and hands.
> 
> View attachment 1295274
> 
> 
> View attachment 1295273


I know these are concepts but it looks like these are big crown. I assume that the Key West will not be a big crown? 


Yao said:


> I haven't decided yet. I just used the blue/red combo from something that I had worked on before without putting much thought into it. Selecting/finalizing the colors will be another step I have to go through.


Since I cannot look at the two options side by IRL I have a hard time deciding which is better. I started out firmly in the lighter colored camp but very knowledgeable people on here turned me onto the darker, deeper, richer colored path similar to this:


----------



## Cleans Up

I prefer v 1.1 and like the idea of something different from all the squared off fonts out there. Also like the thinner numbers (not sure they are actually thinner just appear that way) which in my estimation fits better with the thin (non LV type) hands. 

I've also always supported pepsi dials with darker blue vs the current sky blue versions. All looks great glad to see its moving forward! thanks bill


----------



## White Tuna

Yao said:


> It took a while to get the fonts created for the bezel but here they are. We have two versions. V1.1. is with a rounded end-ed font and V1.2 is with a square ended font.
> 
> Basically the design is done but I have to go back to tweak the proportions and the alignment of the numbers and text. (Sorry just noticed a mistake at the 60 minute marker that will be corrected.)
> 
> The bezel design here is intended to be applied to aluminum. As such I personally prefer v.1.2. I did v1.1 only because someone way back when said they wanted to see it and I thought it might look interesting but in my opinion it is just trying too hard to mimic acrylic when its not.
> 
> As far as production goes....the cases are done and will be delivered at the end of December. That just leaves the production of the bezel inserts, dials and hands. As long as there are no major objections the Project GMT can likely launch in Summer 2014.
> 
> We will move onto the case back design as long as there are no major objections so the bezel and dial designs. Case back engraving will take less time than the production of the inserts, dials and hands.
> 
> View attachment 1295274
> 
> 
> View attachment 1295273


Some things I would like to discuss if it is not too late. Would it be possible to get Key West in red (matching the bezel?) on the black dial and a dark navy (matching the bezel?) or red on the white dial?

Here are some pics Reintitan earlier in the thread:





































https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-design-thread-745194-13.html#post5515407

I was looking for some of the darker navy/dark red bezels and found some interesting pictures from valued member Malyel:














































https://www.watchuseek.com/f449/project-gmt-name-discussion-698878-6.html#post5120007

I am still HIGHLY interested in the Havana and would like to know if there is a chance for that model.


----------



## eganwh

I like V1.2 a bit better as well, but would be happy with either one. Thanks for the progress update.


----------



## TheDude

I agree with your preference Bill. Nice work. 

I will point out one nitpick that I always have with 24hr bezels. The 2 - digit numbers (most notably the 22) don't look right unless the 2 numerals are curved around the bezel on a unique, per-numeral perpendicular to the radial. When you keep the bottom of both numerals on the same line it never looks right imo. 


Look at a photo of the current Rolex GMT Master II and you'll see it. 

Also, in addition to the round-end vs squared-end, these bezels are skinny vs fat font... 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> I will point out one nitpick that I always have with 24hr bezels. The 2 - digit numbers (most notably the 22) don't look right unless the 2 numerals are curved around the bezel on a unique, per-numeral perpendicular to the radial. When you keep the bottom of both numerals on the same line it never looks right imo.


An excellent nit to pick! I happen to be wearing my ExplorerII and I definitely see what you mean about the 22 looking much more comfortable, to the eye, when the 2 digits are each, separately, aligned the curve of the watch, rather than being perfectly aligned to each other and at an angle to the watch's curve.


----------



## Plat0

I'd pay full msrp to guarantee myself a spot at this point as well.


----------



## JCW1980

TheDude said:


> ...24hr bezels. The 2 - digit numbers (most notably the 22) don't look right unless the 2 numerals are curved around the bezel on a unique, per-numeral perpendicular to the radial. ... Look at a photo of the current Rolex GMT Master II and you'll see it.


Interesting. I compared a 1675 and a BLNR, you're right, small detail, but once you look for it, it jumps out at you.

I think it'd look great either way. Parallel double digits would be in keeping with the classic original, but conversely, having each digit separately follow the curvature of the insert would be an interesting nod to the contemporary, and give the watch a more refined/finished look.


----------



## Thieuster

BigHaole said:


> An excellent nit to pick! I happen to be wearing my ExplorerII and I definitely see what you mean about the 22 looking much more comfortable, to the eye, when the 2 digits are each, separately, aligned the curve of the watch, rather than being perfectly aligned to each other and at an angle to the watch's curve.


I fully agree (although I had to look it up on the 'net, since I don't own an Explorer II)

Menno


----------



## TheDude

JCW1980 said:


> Interesting. I compared a 1675 and a BLNR, you're right, small detail, but once you look for it, it jumps out at you.
> 
> I think it'd look great either way. Parallel double digits would be in keeping with the classic original, but conversely, having each digit separately follow the curvature of the insert would be an interesting nod to the contemporary, and give the watch a more refined/finished look.


I actually perceive individual numeral alignment on some of the original 6542 bezels too...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## MHe225

Thieuster said:


> I fully agree (although I had to look it up on the 'net, since I don't own an Explorer II)


Same here (2x). To save you all the trouble having to look up a typical example (Explorer II) and to provide a visual, I found a nice and big picture floating around on WUS:









You're very observant, Dude. Thanks for bringing this to the attention of Bill and all |>

RonB


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## Jfha1210

Plat0 said:


> I'd pay full msrp to guarantee myself a spot at this point as well.


Me too! 😄


----------



## AlphaWolf777

White Tuna said:


> Some things I would like to discuss if it is not too late. Would it be possible to get Key West in red (matching the bezel?) on the black dial and a dark navy (matching the bezel?) or red on the white dial?
> 
> Here are some pics Reintitan earlier in the thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-design-thread-745194-13.html#post5515407
> 
> I was looking for some of the darker navy/dark red bezels and found some interesting pictures from valued member Malyel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f449/project-gmt-name-discussion-698878-6.html#post5120007
> 
> I am still HIGHLY interested in the Havana and would like to know if there is a chance for that model.


All of those look SO SEXY!!! OMG!!!


----------



## enkidu

Hmm, I see that the bottom baselines of the 2's in the 22 are slightly modified to track the bezel curve, but I don't think the baseline of the 2's themselves have been angled; the kerning distance between the numbers in the 22 (and 20, 18, etc) all seem to show the two numbers as being on the same baseline. It's only the bottom line of the 2 that is very lightly bent. I think tilting the whole number to follow the curve would make the kerning look really weird.


----------



## TheDude

enkidu said:


> Hmm, I see that the bottom baselines of the 2's in the 22 are slightly modified to track the bezel curve, but I don't think the baseline of the 2's themselves have been angled; the kerning distance between the numbers in the 22 (and 20, 18, etc) all seem to show the two numbers as being on the same baseline. It's only the bottom line of the 2 that is very lightly bent. I think tilting the whole number to follow the curve would make the kerning look really weird.


Sounds like you know what you're talking about so thanks for the knowledge. Should be helpful if Bill chooses to address this.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

enkidu said:


> Hmm, I see that the bottom baselines of the 2's in the 22 are slightly modified to track the bezel curve, but I don't think the baseline of the 2's themselves have been angled; the kerning distance between the numbers in the 22 (and 20, 18, etc) all seem to show the two numbers as being on the same baseline. It's only the bottom line of the 2 that is very lightly bent. I think tilting the whole number to follow the curve would make the kerning look really weird.


Looking at my watch, all the two digit numbers are angled to have each digit be perpendicular to the radius. You can see this clearly, looking at the 10, where the "1" and the left side of the "0" are straight lines, but are clearly not parallel. The same is true with the 16. Yes, the number bottom (or top) of the numbers are straight and not curved to follow the curve of the bezel.


----------



## JCW1980

I've run across the root beer thing a few times in my vintage rolex reading during the last year or so, and that Havana is looking more and more attractive to me. I might have to go for that if it becomes an option, even if it's just the insert and a black dial (although a coffee dial would be amazing as well...but I'm sure that's not happenning).



White Tuna said:


>


----------



## enkidu

BigHaole said:


> Looking at my watch, all the two digit numbers are angled to have each digit be perpendicular to the radius. You can see this clearly, looking at the 10, where the "1" and the left side of the "0" are straight lines, but are clearly not parallel. The same is true with the 16. Yes, the number bottom (or top) of the numbers are straight and not curved to follow the curve of the bezel.


Would you post a picture? Looking at the post from 


White Tuna said:


> this one


 I don't see the tilted baselines at all. All the two digit numbers on the bezel look to be parallel to each other. I'll try some mockups tonight using Bill's mockups to see how the various options (curving the bottom segment of the 2 and tilting the whole number) would work.


----------



## Toiyabe

Yao said:


> It took a while to get the fonts created for the bezel but here they are. We have two versions. V1.1. is with a rounded end-ed font and V1.2 is with a square ended font.
> 
> Basically the design is done but I have to go back to tweak the proportions and the alignment of the numbers and text. (Sorry just noticed a mistake at the 60 minute marker that will be corrected.)
> 
> The bezel design here is intended to be applied to aluminum. As such I personally prefer v.1.2. I did v1.1 only because someone way back when said they wanted to see it and I thought it might look interesting but in my opinion it is just trying too hard to mimic acrylic when its not.
> 
> As far as production goes....the cases are done and will be delivered at the end of December. That just leaves the production of the bezel inserts, dials and hands. As long as there are no major objections the Project GMT can likely launch in Summer 2014.
> 
> We will move onto the case back design as long as there are no major objections so the bezel and dial designs. Case back engraving will take less time than the production of the inserts, dials and hands.
> 
> View attachment 1295274
> 
> 
> View attachment 1295273


I prefer v1.1, honestly.


----------



## BigHaole

enkidu, take a look at the big Explorer II pic that MHe225 posted. You can clearly see, on the 10 and the 16, and the 18, that the gap between digits is larger at the far end, than at the end closer to the bezel. Also, the Explorer II has radial "scratch marks" in the bezel, which make it very easy to see that the digits are aligned to those radial scratch marks. Those marks also make it impossible to get the bezel polished, during service. I was told to consider my non-radial scratches to be "battle scars" and to wear them with pride.

I don't have the Explorer II on today, but I can take a close up picture of it, straight on, which may be a little easier to see.


----------



## enkidu

BigHaole said:


> enkidu, take a look at the big Explorer II pic that MHe225 posted. You can clearly see, on the 10 and the 16, and the 18, that the gap between digits is larger at the far end, than at the end closer to the bezel. Also, the Explorer II has radial "scratch marks" in the bezel, which make it very easy to see that the digits are aligned to those radial scratch marks. Those marks also make it impossible to get the bezel polished, during service. I was told to consider my non-radial scratches to be "battle scars" and to wear them with pride. I don't have the Explorer II on today, but I can take a close up picture of it, straight on, which may be a little easier to see.


Because the Explorer II bezel is fixed and flips the numbers on the bottom, the bezel design parameters are different. Also the bezel is slanted, so perspective changes the kerning of the text. The picture in question isn't shot straight on or perpendicular to the bezel so it's very hard to tell what the orientation of the text is. A straight on shot, and a shot oriented perpendicular to a section of the bezel would be great! Thanks!


----------



## BigHaole

enkidu said:


> Because the Explorer II bezel is fixed and flips the numbers on the bottom, the bezel design parameters are different. Also the bezel is slanted, so perspective changes the kerning of the text. The picture in question isn't shot straight on or perpendicular to the bezel so it's very hard to tell what the orientation of the text is. A straight on shot, and a shot oriented perpendicular to a section of the bezel would be great! Thanks!


It flips the lower ones, but does not otherwise re-orient them. If you look at the scratch marks (I think Rolex calls it a sunburst pattern), you can see that the individual digits are aligned to the scratch marks, which are radial. But, in any case, I will definitely post some straight on pictures, when I get a chance. Hopefully that will make it clearer. If anyone can do the same with a late model GMT-Master II, that would also be a nice comparison.


----------



## Thieuster

> ... although a coffee dial would be amazing as well...but I'm sure that's not happenning).


Why not? After the Kingston, the Key West was also something that wouldn't happen! And we all know what happened!

Menno


----------



## BigHaole

Thieuster said:


> Why not? After the Kingston, the Key West was also something that wouldn't happen! And we all know what happened!
> 
> Menno


I bet there is a generally available version of the Key West, and I would be very happy if it was called the Havana (such a good name!). But I would expect it to be a simplified version of the Key West, as the Nassau was to the Kingston. Maybe black dial only, no gilt, and only 1 bezel (which would be either coke or pepsi, not something new). While I think there is demand for a rootbeer-bezeled, coffee-dialed, Havana-named watch, I think that demand would be small and would be mostly some of the very active members on this thread. I don't know if it would have the broad appeal that would make it a financial success.

On the other hand, maybe we've entered a time of easy Customization, where changes in color (bezel and dial) are low-cost/fast turn around. In that case, a limited run of the above mentioned Havana (say 50 or 100 pieces?) might be easy for Mr. Yao. Development time would be very short and it could be a nice money maker, while he's working on whatever the next project watch is.

If that were to be considered, I would ask for just enough warning, so I could change my Key West from the black dial, that I'm currently planning, to a white dial. Can't you just picture the "twins" next to each other in my watchbox?


----------



## JFingers

BigHaole said:


> I bet there is a generally available version of the Key West, and I would be very happy if it was called the Havana (such a good name!). But I would expect it to be a simplified version of the Key West, as the Nassau was to the Kingston. Maybe black dial only, no gilt, and only 1 bezel (which would be either coke or pepsi, not something new). While I think there is demand for a rootbeer-bezeled, coffee-dialed, Havana-named watch, I think that demand would be small and would be mostly some of the very active members on this thread. I don't know if it would have the broad appeal that would make it a financial success.
> 
> On the other hand, maybe we've entered a time of easy Customization, where changes in color (bezel and dial) are low-cost/fast turn around. In that case, a limited run of the above mentioned Havana (say 50 or 100 pieces?) might be easy for Mr. Yao. Development time would be very short and it could be a nice money maker, while he's working on whatever the next project watch is.
> 
> If that were to be considered, I would ask for just enough warning, so I could change my Key West from the black dial, that I'm currently planning, to a white dial. Can't you just picture the "twins" next to each other in my watchbox?


I think Bill mentioned earlier that he's only going to be able to make ~300 GMT watches, because that's the amount of ETA movements he has. Using a Sopord (sp?) GMT movement would be more expensive, making the non-limited edition more expensive than the limited edition one. It would be like the Nassau being more expensive than the Kingston...

Regarding the mythical "Havana," holy cow, I love that mock-up. I would liquidate whatever watches not named Kingston on my shelf to get one of a run of 50-100, even if they are more expensive. The white dialed pepsi bezel is a close second and what I hope to get once ordering resumes.

Blue skies!
-only Jake


----------



## mlb212

JFingers said:


> I think Bill mentioned earlier that he's only going to be able to make ~300 GMT watches, because that's the amount of ETA movements he has. Using a Sopord (sp?) GMT movement would be more expensive, making the non-limited edition more expensive than the limited edition one. It would be like the Nassau being more expensive than the Kingston...
> 
> Regarding the mythical "Havana," holy cow, I love that mock-up. I would liquidate whatever watches not named Kingston on my shelf to get one of a run of 50-100, even if they are more expensive. The white dialed pepsi bezel is a close second and what I hope to get once ordering resumes.
> 
> Blue skies!
> -only Jake


For those of us who aren't in on this yet, I hope Bill does a non-limited edition version of the Ket West so I have a chance on the GMT...cost be damned.


----------



## enkidu

BigHaole said:


> It flips the lower ones, but does not otherwise re-orient them. If you look at the scratch marks (I think Rolex calls it a sunburst pattern), you can see that the individual digits are aligned to the scratch marks, which are radial. But, in any case, I will definitely post some straight on pictures, when I get a chance. Hopefully that will make it clearer. If anyone can do the same with a late model GMT-Master II, that would also be a nice comparison.


Here's some analysis I did and an example demonstrating the effect of tilting the entire number. Because the bezel of the Explorer II is tilted and fixed, any comparison of its number alignments to the flat bezel of the Project GMT design is not going to be very fruitful.
Looking at some great pictures posted by White Tuna, I see the following:



White Tuna said:


>


This dial has mostly similar kerning for all the two-digit bezel markings, the 20 and 22 kerning may be a bit further since typically those two characters need to be geometrically closer for the whitespace weight to be similar to the whitespace weight of the other numbers.

The bottom strokes of the two 2's in the 22 have definitely been altered to conform to the bezel angles. The left 2 has had its angle made a bit more acute, and the right a bit more obtuse. I think the 2 in the 20 has also had it's bottom stroke slightly angled. Note, due to the position, the 2 in the 12 doesn't seem to have had its bottom stroke altered.


White Tuna said:


>


Note that the silver dial GMT Master with crown guards has radically differing spacing between the two digit bezel times. In particular, the 18 has a much wider spacing, probably to accomodate the color transition. The font is also different from the big crown one above. The numbers are heavier and have sharper corners.

In this example also, the bottom strokes of the 2's in 22 and 20 have been modified to conform to the bezel. It isn't as obvious as the big-crown example because of the heavier strokes.


White Tuna said:


>


This last big-crown example seems to have a very slightly different font from the first one. The bottom strokes on the 2's are shorter than in the first example. The same angle modifications have been done to the bottom strokes on the 2's in 20 and 22. Note that the black-red transition on the 18 is also positioned differently from the first. This was definitely manufactured in a different run from the first.

For reference, here are Bill's original uploads:



















Looking at them again, I affirm my original choice of v1.2 with the heavier font. Even with the heavier font, it isn't as heavy as the alumninum bezel above. My attempts to reproduce the tilted bottom strokes on Bill's mockups was a resounding failure. My attempts to just modify the bottom strokes of the 2's also failed. However, I was able to show the effect of tilting the entire 2 to match the bezel angle.


----------



## BigHaole

OK, here are some pictures of my beloved Explorer II. Please note, while the bezel is fixed, the numerals are not tilted, they are reversed, on the lower half, for added readability. They are still aligned radially to the watch dial.








Here are some close ups of the 2 digit numbers:


----------



## mephisto

hate to interrupt this debate but just in case anyone needs a palette cleanser figured i'd post these pics of a gmt/explorerII mashup from jake's blog. might help some get a better feel for proportions and what else they might like/not like.

(apologies if these have been posted already)



























for the whtie dial lovers:


















src: Welcome To RolexMagazine.com...Home Of Jake's Rolex World Magazine..Optimized for iPad and iPhone: Jake's Cherry Vanilla GMT Design Idea...


----------



## cpotters

I normally don't weigh in on the little details of design, but since you guys got me playing with it, here's what I noticed...

It may be difficult to make an accurate comparison between the earlier GMT bezel fonts and the Explorer II fonts because of the need to "bend" the numbers around the Explorer II bezel. They needed to do that visually on the round dial for two reasons. 

Firstly, the Font was so "blocky", so squarish, that it looked out of place on the circle of the bezel and next to the round dial (look at the interiors of the closed numbers - like the "8", the "0" or the "6" and compare them to the old fonts and you'll see nothing but blocks and squares - too much visual conflict. 

This is exacerbated by the second feature: if you measure the visible width of the bakelite bezels and the bezel on the Explorer II, and THEN measure the height of the numerals in each bezel, you'll see that the number height in the older bezels takes up a MUCH higher percentage of the total space of the bezel width than in the metal engraved numbers in the Explorer II. Because there is more visual "field" in the Explorer's bezel, curving the numbers to move around the curve of the dial made sense. 

These same two factors - percentage of bezel width covered by the total height of the numeral, and the "blockiness" of the font used would be a good guide for Bill in deciding how much he needs to play with the aspect of the number placement. You can do this yourself and see that if you play with just those two factors it alters the look of the watch - a LOT. Just my dos centavos. Carry on...


----------



## jussi

I prefer the thinner strokes on V1.1 Bezel! 
don't mind if they are rounded och squared of in the end as long as they are not to bulky, just looks to "new" somehow if they are thick...and at the same time loses a bit of the cosy feeling of the project.
just my 2c.


----------



## BigHaole

JFingers said:


> I think Bill mentioned earlier that he's only going to be able to make ~300 GMT watches, because that's the amount of ETA movements he has. Using a Sopord (sp?) GMT movement would be more expensive, making the non-limited edition more expensive than the limited edition one. It would be like the Nassau being more expensive than the Kingston...


I forgot about the limited ETA movements. That throws a wrench into the whole idea, as I imagine the two movements are not drag-and-drop interchangable. And, if we had to go back to the drawing board, a run of 50 Havana Nights would probably not make sense. Too bad...


----------



## Plat0

That detail does indeed throw a wrench into the whole idea of even any GMTs beyond the 300 limited pieces.

Again... Bill let me throw full MSRP at you_ right now_ to save me a spot!


----------



## gwold

Plat0 said:


> Again... Bill let me throw full MSRP at you_ right now_ to save me a spot!


Ditto.

Waiting on the GO.


----------



## White Tuna

mephisto said:


> for the whtie dial lovers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> src: Welcome To RolexMagazine.com...Home Of Jake's Rolex World Magazine..Optimized for iPad and iPhone: Jake's Cherry Vanilla GMT Design Idea...


I love the contrast on those two. I think people get too hung up by the name vintage lume when it is just the khaki and white contrast I like or in some cases a less drastic contrast between black and bright white.


----------



## mlb212

Plat0 said:


> That detail does indeed throw a wrench into the whole idea of even any GMTs beyond the 300 limited pieces.
> 
> Again... Bill let me throw full MSRP at you_ right now_ to save me a spot!


Plato did have good ideas...count me in for the second round of 60 slots. I don't need anything extra also Bill; just the watch, thats all I want...just the watch.


----------



## Chromejob

I was actually mistaken about the v1.1 font being more correct. Looking through my squirreled away image repository I find examples of both styles of "2" on what I believe are 6542s, and ... here's where it gets tricky ... an old 6542 owners instruction book. Throwing these images up just for review and consideration, not to lend weight to either choice. Ultimately, I'd like to let Bill decide. He's staring at these designs (and will be staring at the watches) more than most of us. I trust his craftsman's taste. 

Looking at the 2's and the 6's, it doesn't even seem they were always consistent on the same watch.


----------



## cpotters

Chromejob said:


> I'd like to let Bill decide. He's staring at these designs (and will be staring at the watches) more than most of us. I trust his craftsman's taste.


Super-important point, especially for the newer folks on the board. You just cannot believe how much it slows down the release of a watch when there are so many cooks in the kitchen. Ask anyone involved in the Kingston at its inception: great to be a part of the design discussions, but they added at least an additional year to the launch. Keep that in mind,,,,


----------



## Cleans Up

"I'd like to let Bill decide. He's staring at these designs (and will be staring at the watches) more than most of us. I trust his craftsman's taste."



cpotters said:


> Super-important point, especially for the newer folks on the board. You just cannot believe how much it slows down the release of a watch when there are so many cooks in the kitchen. Ask anyone involved in the Kingston at its inception: great to be a part of the design discussions, but they added at least an additional year to the launch. Keep that in mind,,,,


Couldn't agree more, And keep in mind that watchlovers though we are, most of us just aren't in Bill's league when it comes to the details. I like the discussions but trust him 100% for a good outcome.


----------



## Arthur

16750 just for reference


----------



## Rasphelt

Yao said:


> There will be about 300 watches and only about 60-70 are spoken for right now. I haven't figured out how to release the remaining spots yet.


Hey, has this been figured out? Is there a pre-order position or an "I'm interested" list that we can get on?

Cheers
Ben


----------



## nick_sixx

Rasphelt said:


> Hey, has this been figured out? Is there a pre-order position or an "I'm interested" list that we can get on?
> 
> Cheers
> Ben


I'm wondering the same thing. Being in Australia I'm worried that Bill will announce the release in the US at a time when I'll be asleep.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Rasphelt said:


> Hey, has this been figured out? Is there a pre-order position or an "I'm interested" list that we can get on?
> 
> Cheers
> Ben


An early Christmas present, maybe, !

Sent from my Super-iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

nick_sixx said:


> I'm wondering the same thing. Being in Australia I'm worried that Bill will announce the release in the US at a time when I'll be asleep.


The original 60 slots lasted a few days, before selling out. I remember thinking about it for a while, before jumping in (this is my first project watch).


----------



## mlb212

nick_sixx said:


> I'm wondering the same thing. Being in Australia I'm worried that Bill will announce the release in the US at a time when I'll be asleep.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


Its pretty clear you shouldn't sleep...


----------



## Plat0

BigHaole said:


> The original 60 slots lasted a few days, before selling out. I remember thinking about it for a while, before jumping in (this is my first project watch).


With how MKII has taken off and the success of the Kingston, I wouldn't bet on having the luxury of "thinking about it for awhile" when the remaining slots open up. Especially when the delivery date has been alluded to being summer of 2014.


----------



## BigHaole

Plat0 said:


> With how MKII has taken off and the success of the Kingston, I wouldn't bet on having the luxury of "thinking about it for awhile" when the remaining slots open up. Especially when the delivery date has been alluded to being summer of 2014.


I hope you're right, because I want Bill, and this project, to be successful. But the first buy in date was at the height of Kingston-mania...


----------



## JPMIA

I was on vacation. When I was back home and saw that Bill was taking orders and they were all gone, cried for a week.
But I got on a waiting list, so I am hoping to get in in the next 60.


----------



## nick_sixx

JPMIA said:


> I was on vacation. When I was back home and saw that Bill was taking orders and they were all gone, cried for a week.
> But I got on a waiting list, so I am hoping to get in in the next 60.


Which waiting list? I'm so keen for one of these watches.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## JPMIA

The one that was set up as soon as the orders were filled. Check on the eBoutique news at the end of January 2012


----------



## LasVegas

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

May someone tell how to get on a waiting list?


----------



## enkidu

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



LasVegas said:


> May someone tell how to get on a waiting list?


I don't think there is an explicit waiting list, but Join Newsletter is the link to sign up for announcements.


----------



## JPMIA

Check if the link in the Project GMT News still works.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

*FROM MY FAILING MEMORY* I do not think Bill will just drop them on the site at some random point. If you read the forum (And Newsletter) Bill will usually say something like "I am going to put up some [INSERT WATCH NAME HERE] later this week, maybe Wednesday" and then get them out like Thursday or Friday morning. :-d

Even if you miss his post there is usually enough buzz from the forum that it will be hard to miss if you stop by enough. It may be a mad house if he only releases 60, but if he releases the balance I would hope there will not be a problem getting them for those who keep an eye out. Just my






.


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



LasVegas said:


> May someone tell how to get on a waiting list?





enkidu said:


> I don't think there is an explicit waiting list, but Join Newsletter is the link to sign up for announcements.


Yeah, from past experience, the best way to be sure you get in on the general order is to make sure you check the forum here and/or the MKII website every couple days. Don't expect an email announcement even if you are signed up for the news letter. As I recall, the 60 piece pre-order filled up in about 2 days, so once the 190 piece general order opens up, there should be at least a 2 day window to get your order in. The trick is seeing that the ordering has opened before it's too late to get yours in. 

You definitely have to be vigilant. But if you are, you shouldn't have a problem getting in.


----------



## Chromejob

I beg to differ. Bill sent out very clear emails to those of us on the Kingston GO wait list, and gave all ample time to reply and order . If you're signed up on his list(s) I believe you'll get direct notification. 

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## JCW1980

Chromejob said:


> I beg to differ. Bill sent out very clear emails to those of us on the Kingston GO wait list, and gave all ample time to reply and order . If you're signed up on his list(s) I believe you'll get direct notification.


I hope that's true. From experience, I have received MKII news by email when it was already "old news" to me because I had paid close attention to the website and the forum. It wasn't my intention to imply that Bill wouldn't send out an email, but rather that, in my opinion, the best way to stay up-to-date on MKII news is to be proactive versus simply waiting for an email. :thumbup:


----------



## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> I beg to differ. Bill sent out very clear emails to those of us on the Kingston GO wait list, and gave all ample time to reply and order . If you're signed up on his list(s) I believe you'll get direct notification.
> 
> // Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


I think that people on the wait list are OK with it. I think it is the people who missed the wait list and who joined the newsletter that are concerned.


----------



## curt941

White Tuna said:


> I think that people on the wait list are OK with it. I think it is the people who missed the wait list and who joined the newsletter that are concerned.


Was there a waitlist back in 2011 when this was announced? Or was it early 2012? I can't even remember at this point, dang.


----------



## JCW1980

It's been nearly 2 years, so my memory may be hazy, but I don't recall that there is/was a "waitlist" for those who missed out on the gmt pre-order. All I recall is the "make sure you're signed up for the email news letter" thing.


----------



## BigHaole

So I've booked my vacation for July 2014...what are my odds on taking my Key West with me?


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> So I've booked my vacation for July 2014...what are my odds on taking my Key West with me?


.01%


----------



## JPMIA

JCW1980 said:


> It's been nearly 2 years, so my memory may be hazy, but I don't recall that there is/was a "waitlist" for those who missed out on the gmt pre-order. All I recall is the "make sure you're signed up for the email news letter" thing.


There was. Check the link

Project GMT Pre-order is Full&#8230;


----------



## mlb212

BigHaole said:


> So I've booked my vacation for July 2014...what are my odds on taking my Key West with me?


I will be taking the opposite strategy. I will be canceling all my summer plans, clearing my schedule to check the MKII website and WUS daily.


----------



## MHe225

White Tuna said:


> .01%


You're a true optimist :-d I like that |>


----------



## White Tuna

White Tuna said:


> .01%


----------



## Yao

White Tuna said:


> I think that people on the wait list are OK with it. I think it is the people who missed the wait list and who joined the newsletter that are concerned.


Mostly its just semantics. The wait list and the newsletter are basically one and the same. Its just that the new E-boutique allows us to collect the emails of those interested in a different way. We will just import them into the wait list. I would just make certain that you are on the Project GMT mailing list and not the General Mailing list. We will send out emails to the Project GMT wait list customers first.

Sorry I haven't been around. In order to keep the project running with only 60 plus people at the moment we have to sell what we have. In other words so that we don't end up with an un-manageably large pre-order I still need to sell and deliver watches now. Hopefully we will hit our budget in a few days and I can start working on the technical drawings for the purchase orders we need to send out of the hands, bezel insert, and dial.


----------



## Yao

mlb212 said:


> I will be taking the opposite strategy. I will be canceling all my summer plans, clearing my schedule to check the MKII website and WUS daily. Has anyone ever camped out at the MKII shop for a watch relsease? You know, like those crazy kids do for apple phones...


I'd love to tell you that it will happen but frankly everyone's right....I wouldn't put money on it. We have made a lot of improvements but there are just too many variables left to hit such a target.


----------



## Yao

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



enkidu said:


> I don't think there is an explicit waiting list, but Join Newsletter is the link to sign up for announcements.


My wife and I are also working on a "status board" that we will post on this page:

Project GMT

We only have a rough draft now but we hope when its done and posted that the status of the project will be much clearer to divine.


----------



## TheDude

Yao said:


> Mostly its just semantics. The wait list and the newsletter are basically one and the same. Its just that the new E-boutique allows us to collect the emails of those interested in a different way. We will just import them into the wait list. I would just make certain that you are on the Project GMT mailing list and not the General Mailing list. We will send out emails to the Project GMT wait list customers first.
> 
> Sorry I haven't been around. In order to keep the project running with only 60 plus people at the moment we have to sell what we have. In other words so that we don't end up with an un-manageably large pre-order I still need to sell and deliver watches now. Hopefully we will hit our budget in a few days and I can start working on the technical drawings for the purchase orders we need to send out of the hands, bezel insert, and dial.


Show of hands...

How many of us 60+ would pay the balance now to keep more production cycles on the Key West?

I am willing to do so...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

TheDude said:


> Show of hands...
> 
> How many of us 60+ would pay the balance now to keep more production cycles on the Key West?
> 
> I am willing to do so...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


:think: I'm In.

|>|>


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> Show of hands...
> 
> How many of us 60+ would pay the balance now to keep more production cycles on the Key West?
> 
> I am willing to do so...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


While I would also be willing to pay up, I'm sure Bill is trying to balance his business. Designs in progress, parts flowing in, watches flowing out, and, hopefully, more $ flowing in than out.

And, while I would have loved to take my Key West (any chance we can re-vote on the "Havana"?) on the trip, that's OK. I've recently picked up two beautiful Malio leather straps for my old ExplorerII and it's now getting lots of wrist time again.


----------



## BigHaole

I also want to add that I don't mind the delays, so long as the communication is there. When we go months without any update, I start to wonder what I got into. An update every week or two does wonders for keeping up morale.


----------



## Thieuster

> I also want to add that I don't mind the delays, so long as the communication is there.


A simple pic of the incoming parts or another minor 'lift of the curtain' is enough to make everybody happy. Personally I wouldn't recommend a regular update: people start to rely on these updates. Every time Bill overshoots one of the deadlines, people will start to get worried. So an unannounced pic every now and then, is far better! (A nice 'from the workbench' pic would be a great Xmas present ;-) )

Menno


----------



## TheDude

TheDude said:


> Show of hands...
> 
> How many of us 60+ would pay the balance now to keep more production cycles on the Key West?
> 
> I am willing to do so...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Oh, and how about releasing some 369 Nassaus if the goal is to sell other watches? I'm sure you could move some of those... :-D

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

Mods delete. Duplicate.


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> Oh, and how about releasing some 369 Nassaus if the goal is to sell other watches? I'm sure you could move some of those... :-D
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Ah... You mean 3-6-9 Nassaus. At first I thought you were implying that Bill had made a run of three hundred and sixty nine Nassau watches and was hording them to create demand. Kinda like the Cabbage Patch Kids.


----------



## sunster

Dont think Bill has a problem selling watches....it's producing them fast enough. The wait period is a problem for some.


----------



## Chromejob

TheDude said:


> Oh, and how about releasing some 369 Nassaus if the goal is to sell other watches? I'm sure you could move some of those... :-D


Though not really an apples to apples conflict, the new Steinhart O1V is filling that design void. (Has a lot of gold & yellow on the dial for me.) A date- model Nassau would perk my ears up.

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## TheDude

Chromejob said:


> Though not really an apples to apples conflict, the new Steinhart O1V is filling that design void. (Has a lot of gold & yellow on the dial for me.) A date- model Nassau would perk my ears up.
> 
> // Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


Oooh, that's got some nice design elements. Odd lugs though, sorta Omega-ish. 42mm might be a bit big as well. That crown must be 10mm to look that big on a 42mm watch.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## cj610

Yao said:


> . I would just make certain that you are on the Project GMT mailing list and not the General Mailing list. We will send out emails to the Project GMT wait list customers first.


Sorry to ask an elementary question but does anyone know how to sign up for the GMT specific email list? I'm on the General Mailing list and tried the old link from the 'GMT order full' page.......:think:

Thanks,
Ed


----------



## cj610

Just saw that I'd been added to the GMT email list using the old link but had gotten a 404 error when it was processing.......It must have taken. Thanks........
Ed


----------



## Chromejob

cj610 said:


> Sorry to ask an elementary question but does anyone know how to sign up for the GMT specific email list? I'm on the General Mailing list and tried the old link from the 'GMT order full' page.......:think:
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed





cj610 said:


> Just saw that I'd been added to the GMT email list using the old link but had gotten a 404 error when it was processing.......It must have taken. Thanks........
> Ed


Yes the redirect page is missing, but you shouldve received a confirmation email message. :thumbup:

// Tapatalk HD for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## curt941

Any chance for an update before Christmas to hold us over?

I was wondering about the lume, C3 or BGW9 or will we be able to choose? And is the crown going to be the same as the Kingston, Nassau, or something all together new?

Thanks


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

curt941 said:


> Any chance for an update before Christmas to hold us over?
> 
> I was wondering about the lume, C3 or BGW9 or will we be able to choose? And is the crown going to be the same as the Kingston, Nassau, or something all together new?
> 
> Thanks


Lume is to be decided yet, but Bill (and most) seem to favor BGW9 - I'm hoping for C3 myself - :-!

and go to: https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-design-thread-745194-40.html to read about the crown size....

There is a lot of information through the whole of this thread - ;-)

-Best-


----------



## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Lume is to be decided yet, but Bill (and most) seem to favor BGW9 - I'm hoping for C3 myself - :-!
> 
> and go to: https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-design-thread-745194-40.html to read about the crown size....
> 
> There is a lot of information through the whole of this thread - ;-)
> 
> -Best-


I am with OmegaCosmicMan. I prefer C3 by a fairly wide margin but I am fairly certain it will be BGW9. My quick guess:
BGW9 96%
C3 3%
Aged Lume .001%
Other .009%


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> I am with OmegaCosmicMan. I prefer C3 by a fairly wide margin but I am fairly certain it will be BGW9. My quick guess:
> BGW9 96%
> C3 3%
> Aged Lume .001%
> Other .009%


For a while, it sounded like aged lume had a lot of support, but that seemed to die down. Personally, I think BGW9 looks better on a pilot watch, C3 on a dive watch.


----------



## curt941

I think bgw9 will look great on the black dial. I would like c3 on the white dial since the outlines will be gold. The c3 would give good contrast.

But to be honest I would love metallic blue printing like this fortis on the white dial.


----------



## White Tuna

curt941 said:


> I think bgw9 will look great on the black dial. I would like c3 on the white dial since the outlines will be gold. The c3 would give good contrast.
> 
> But to be honest I would love metallic blue printing like this fortis on the white dial.
> 
> View attachment 1323180


I think a blue would be fantastic. Unfortunately for us I believe Bill looked into this or something like it and did not think it would be possible.


----------



## mlb212

Ahem. Not sure when but this happened...

Project GMT


----------



## tmoris

mlb212 said:


> Ahem. Not sure when but this happened...
> 
> Project GMT


its a picture, so i dont think its the real progress bar but probably shows a new output design that will at some point be introduced to us that will enable Bill to better communicate with customers about timing/schedules. looking forward to it!


----------



## White Tuna

mlb212 said:


> Ahem. Not sure when but this happened...
> 
> Project GMT


You found that using Google or bookmark as opposed to the menu's on the site? This happened with the Kingston as well. Even after orders had closed you could find the Kingston Order page through Google and place an order. It was not valid.


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> You found that using Google or bookmark as opposed to the menu's on the site? This happened with the Kingston as well. Even after orders had closed you could find the Kingston Order page through Google and place an order. It was not valid.


I just went to the site and navigated the menus. Watch Collections -> Limited Editions & Series -> Project GMT

It brings you right to this page with the progress bar. This is official website information.


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> I just went to the site and navigated the menus. Watch Collections -> Limited Editions & Series -> Project GMT
> 
> It brings you right to this page with the progress bar. This is official website information.


Oops. I'm sorry *mlb212. *I looked under limited editions and did not see the Project GMT.

Thanks for correcting me BigHaole.


----------



## BigHaole

I just took a look at the limited editions. I feel bad for our friends on the Project 300 list, as that shows as still being at the Technical Drawing stage. I also saw that, for the Greywater, Bill is tracking which watches are in assembly, which is kinda cool. I hope that continues for the other projects. It's a fun visual.


----------



## Plat0

The progress bar and which watches are in assembly is amazing! Bill is really going all out to shape the MKII experience. This business plan is a possible game changer.


----------



## BigHaole

Plat0 said:


> The progress bar and which watches are in assembly is amazing! Bill is really going all out to shape the MKII experience. This business plan is a possible game changer.


I agree! I'm trying to figure out what my GMT # is, so I can track when mine goes "on the board"!


----------



## Fullers1845

It's like waiting for someone to get out of surgery.


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> I agree! I'm trying to figure out what my GMT # is, so I can track when mine goes "on the board"!


I do not think that we get that info until after we pay the balance.


----------



## MHe225

BigHaole said:


> ... I feel bad for our friends on the Project 300 list, as that shows as still being at the Technical Drawing stage ...


I feel bad for us too; the wait so far is just under 46 months and counting ......

RonB

PS - I have just policed my own post; it sounded way more negative than I want it to be. I'm happy to be on-board and would be happier with some real progress and (P300) watches being produced


----------



## Dragoon

has it really been 46 months? That means our orders were placed in 2010 for the GMT? Or are you referring to the P300's?



MHe225 said:


> I feel bad for us too; the wait so far is just under 46 months and counting ......
> 
> RonB
> 
> PS - I have just policed my own post; it sounded way more negative than I want it to be. I'm happy to be on-board and would be happier with some real progress and (P300) watches being produced


----------



## BigHaole

Dragoon said:


> has it really been 46 months? That means our orders were placed in 2010 for the GMT? Or are you referring to the P300's?


That's for Project 300. The GMT orders started in Jan 2012. Only 24 months for us and, hopefully, 30 months total, by the time they ship (fingers crossed!).


----------



## TK792

I tried unsuccessfully to find the answer, but how does one know if they are still on the Pre-order list for the GMT? I paid way back when, but when I sign in to MKII it says I have no orders. All this new activity about the GMT has got me all excited again. Just want to make sure I havent missed something I was supposed to do. Thanks in advance if anyone knows. Cheers!


----------



## BigHaole

When I log into MKII and go to Customer Service, under tickets, I see my receipt for my pre-pay. It says that the Order Status is "0. Pending Instruction". The text says "Thank you for your Project GMT pre-order. We confirmed receipt of your payment..."


----------



## Thieuster

Ah, I just logged in as well. Exactly 3 yrs ago, I paid a deposite for the Project 300. And on Jan. 20 2012, I paid a deposit for the Key West. As I've said before: I don't mind waiting for a watch (watches in this case) that will be as close to perfection as can be.

Menno


----------



## TK792

Thanks BigHaole! I was able to log in and confirm my payment had been cleared!!! Appreciate your help!
Incidentally for anyone trying, I was unable to log in using explorer, I had to go through Firefox. It kept kicking me out, stating "A Cross Site Request Forgery attempt has been detected; cannot continue with the required action." But through Firefox all was good.


----------



## mtbmike

*Project GMT: 6542 Eye Candy!*

Great photo from Banzaff on Jakes Blog


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## 66Cooper

That looks wonderful!


----------



## Axelay2003

Thieuster said:


> Ah, I just logged in as well. Exactly 3 yrs ago, I paid a deposite for the Project 300. And on Jan. 20 2012, I paid a deposit for the Key West. As I've said before: I don't mind waiting for a watch (watches in this case) that will be as close to perfection as can be.
> 
> Menno


I'm pretty patient, but 3 years holding the deposit is non ideal. I hope everyone gets their watches sooner than later. I missed the GMT pre-order, but kinda glad I did. I will just wait until they pop up new or used in the secondary market....maybe in 2-4 years.


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: 6542 Eye Candy!*



mtbmike said:


> Great photo from Banzaff on Jakes Blog


That is the most cherry 6542 example I think I've ever seen. Thanks for posting!


----------



## Chromejob

Axelay2003 said:


> I'm pretty patient, but 3 years holding the deposit is non ideal. I hope everyone gets their watches sooner than later. I missed the GMT pre-order, but kinda glad I did. I will just wait until they pop up new or used in the secondary market....maybe in 2-4 years.


Not strictly a deposit imho. We're funding the ltd ed, and get it at or below market value. Same as the Kingston.

Bill's not in business to fund a special commission project with his own dough then sell the watches at a miniscule profit margin.

// Tapatalk for Android - Nexus 7 //


----------



## BigHaole

Chromejob said:


> Bill's not in business to fund a special commission project with his own dough then sell the watches at a miniscule profit margin. /


I expect that Bill knows enough about business to not be selling at a minuscule profit margin. But I think the comparison with Crowd Sourcing is appropriate. He collects enough deposits (and they are deposits, if he does not build the watch, we get our money back or we can choose to give up our spot and get our money back), to fund the early stages. I assume the next round of pre-sales is to fund the final ordering of materials, and the General Ordering is, hopefully, mostly profit.

The part I don't understand is what has caused the delays on this and the Project 300. I know there was a bunch of R&D, in the beginning that did not pan out, such as the sapphire bezel. But, I believe, at least for this project, it's been about prioritization. For example, we had a long, quiet period, while development happened for the Fulcrum and Bill explained it as "needing to keep the bills paid." And while I don't doubt the validity of that, I wonder if there would have been a way to have kept the focus on the limited editions. A few on here have suggested either taking in more pre-orders, or paying in full, rather than a 50% deposit. I imagine it has more to do with longer term cash and parts flows, rather than just dollars collected now. I don't ask this to criticize, but from a desire to better understand the workings of a small, artisan producer. I know my watch will arrive, when it arrives, and based on everything I've heard, I'll be very happy with it.


----------



## jussi

Hello all!

Don't know if this questions been up, but here it goes...

I started to look around at different styles in the Gmt-lines out there and noticed that the hand stack order differs... and not alway in a good way (in My opinion).

Is this project going to have the stacking that look the best to Me: GMT,HOUR,MINUTE,SEC (from bottom to top of stack) |>

.....or... :-x is it going to have the horrible looking (once again, to Me) HOUR,GMT,MINUTE,SEC. from bottom to top order


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## cpotters

I don't think it's ever come up....let's see if someone here knows. I believe on my MkII LRRP Capstone the order is GMT-HOUR-Minute-Second (as it is on the most).


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## curt941

It has to be GMT, Hour, Minute, Second, as that is the order on the ETA 2893 GMT Movement.

Old Rolex GMT Masters, 1675 and earlier I believe, had GMT, hour, minute, second.

Newer Rolex GMT watches (Master and Explorer series) have hour, gmt, minute second. But I personally don't know of any other GMT movement that has that hand order.


----------



## jussi

curt941 said:


> It has to be GMT, Hour, Minute, Second, as that is the order on the ETA 2893 GMT Movement.


Of course! why didn't I think of that :-d Thanks for clearing it up for Me|>


----------



## BigHaole

curt941 said:


> Newer Rolex GMT watches (Master and Explorer series) have hour, gmt, minute second. But I personally don't know of any other GMT movement that has that hand order.


I know, on the ExplorerII (previous generation, not the big arrow) the GMT hand is underneath the minute hand. Once an hour, the red GMT hand is hidden, giving the watch a very different look.


----------



## Arthur

I'm certainly not familiar with all GMT models, but any that use the ETA 2893-2 as the base movement have the GMT,hour,minute, second handstack . This is the movement Bill is going to use in the GMT. Rolex uses and in house movement with a settable hour hand rather than a settable GMT hand.AFAIK Rolex is the only one that uses this type movement that is settable in both directions.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## HJR

Hi Arthur, if I understand what you are saying correctly about the independently set jumping hour hand versus independently set 24 hour hand, you are correct that the ETA has the independent 24 hour hand, but rolex is not the only one with the jumping hour hand. Omega GMT, at least the ones in the SMP and and Speedmaster have that as well.



Arthur said:


> I'm certainly not familiar with all GMT models, ... Rolex uses and in house movement with a settable hour hand rather than a settable GMT hand.AFAIK Rolex is the only one that uses this type movement that is settable in both directions.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## curt941

Are you talking about the 16570? Or the 1655 explorer?

Because the 16570 has hour on the bottom.

1655 had GMT on the bottom, like the 1675 GMT.


BigHaole said:


> I know, on the ExplorerII (previous generation, not the big arrow) the GMT hand is underneath the minute hand. Once an hour, the red GMT hand is hidden, giving the watch a very different look.


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> I'm certainly not familiar with all GMT models, but any that use the ETA 2893-2 as the base movement have the GMT,hour,minute, second handstack . This is the movement Bill is going to use in the GMT. Rolex uses and in house movement with a settable hour hand rather than a settable GMT hand.AFAIK Rolex is the only one that uses this type movement that is settable in both directions.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Pretty much says it all right here !

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TheDude

I went looking at macros of Rolex GMTs and going back several decades (16750 onward) it appears they all share the same hand stack - hour, gmt, minutes, seconds. 

FWIW, the Exp II shares the same movement and should be stacked the same. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

Dude, you are correct. Rolex changed the hand stack with the 16750. The older 1675 and 6542 both had the GMT, hour, minute, second. So the Key West, homage to the 6542 will have the same handstack, as it will use the 2893-2 ETA movement.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## curt941

LoL, that's what my post was 4 days ago.


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## BigHaole

curt941 said:


> Are you talking about the 16570? Or the 1655 explorer?
> 
> Because the 16570 has hour on the bottom.
> 
> 1655 had GMT on the bottom, like the 1675 GMT.


Yes, my ExpII is a 16570, and it does go Hour, GMT, Minute, Second. Because the minute hand is wider than the red GMT hand, once an hour, the red hand is obscured, and the watch looks very different (for about 60 seconds). Every once in a while, I catch it and do a double take.

BTW, I've always been impressed with the on-line Rolex crowd's ability to speak in model #s.


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## BigHaole

Since the MKII dashboard implies that we're in production. Does anyone know what the final dial design and hand set ended up being?


----------



## Dragoon

I suppose a real update from Bill would give us a better idea of actual stage of production. It could mean a lot of things. It could mean that the cases and bracelets are being produced. Or the dials are being produced, ect. Not sure it means the entire watch design is completed and approved and all the parts are in production.

But, hopefully, that is the case. 
(Sort of doubt it based on past experience.)

If Bill had the entire watch design finished; I think he would, at the least, let us know.
I can appreciate that he may not want to reveal the exact design so that someone doesnt copy his design prior to him finishing his piece.



BigHaole said:


> Since the MKII dashboard implies that we're in production. Does anyone know what the final dial design and hand set ended up being?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think:

Patience.

All Good things come to him who waits....


----------



## Thieuster

I've said it before and I will say it again: someone a the Rolex HQ is reading MKII threads!

A nice article here: Rolex GMT-Master II 116719 BLRO Watch With Red & Blue Ceramic: Return Of The Pepsi Bezel | aBlogtoWatch And it struck me that the title of the article reads: 'The Return of the Pepsi Bezel' (!) According to the article, Rolex stopped making that bezel in 2007. And one of the details mentioned in the early days of the Key West's design was... the return of the Pepsi! 
Over the years, Bill came up with various designs (Vantage 39mm), LRRP with the Capstone bezel & Kingston that are closely followed by Rolex' own designs.

This time the design and build of the KW is a little slower than expected; had it been delivered to Plank Owners last year or early this year, Bill would -again- have been ahead of Rolex!
Now... let's wait for Rolex' interpretation of the Fulcrum...

Menno


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## Dragoon

Can this or will this have any impact on Bill being able to produce the Key West? Does it prevent him through patent or copyright on the new piece that was produced?

And, yes, I have to agree with you on the omni presence of Rolex watching Bill's every move. Sort of James Bondish.

Bill said a year or two ago when he was at Basel that he was in the elevator with some watch reps and they sort of gave him some odd looks when they noticed his watch was not a Rolex.

I gotta say I love the Rolex re issue! Wow, that ceramic bezel insert is out of this world. Just an amazing piece.



Thieuster said:


> I've said it before and I will say it again: someone a the Rolex HQ is reading MKII threads!
> 
> A nice article here: Rolex GMT-Master II 116719 BLRO Watch With Red & Blue Ceramic: Return Of The Pepsi Bezel | aBlogtoWatch And it struck me that the title of the article reads: 'The Return of the Pepsi Bezel' (!) According to the article, Rolex stopped making that bezel in 2007. And one of the details mentioned in the early days of the Key West's design was... the return of the Pepsi!
> Over the years, Bill came up with various designs (Vantage 39mm), LRRP with the Capstone bezel & Kingston that are closely followed by Rolex' own designs.
> 
> This time the design and build of the KW is a little slower than expected; had it been delivered to Plank Owners last year or early this year, Bill would -again- have been ahead of Rolex!
> Now... let's wait for Rolex' interpretation of the Fulcrum...
> 
> Menno


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## BigHaole

Rolex has been working on a 2-color ceramic pretty much since they switched to ceramic bezels on the GMT-Master, if not before. Technology has held them back, not marketing. Bill is planning to deliver a stainless steel bezel or (and I still hold out hope for this) a sapphire bezel, not a ceramic. And while I'm pretty certain Rolex has a patent on the process they use to make a 2-color, 1-piece ceramic bezel, they do not have a patent on putting red next to blue. The Key West will be fine.



Dragoon said:


> Can this or will this have any impact on Bill being able to produce the Key West? Does it prevent him through patent or copyright on the new piece that was produced?
> 
> And, yes, I have to agree with you on the omni presence of Rolex watching Bill's every move. Sort of James Bondish.
> 
> Bill said a year or two ago when he was at Basel that he was in the elevator with some watch reps and they sort of gave him some odd looks when they noticed his watch was not a Rolex.
> 
> I gotta say I love the Rolex re issue! Wow, that ceramic bezel insert is out of this world. Just an amazing piece.


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> Rolex has been working on a 2-color ceramic pretty much since they switched to ceramic bezels on the GMT-Master, if not before. Technology has held them back, not marketing. Bill is planning to deliver a stainless steel bezel or (and I still hold out hope for this) a sapphire bezel, not a ceramic. And while I'm pretty certain Rolex has a patent on the process they use to make a 2-color, 1-piece ceramic bezel, they do not have a patent on putting red next to blue. The Key West will be fine.


I agree, there are tons of "Pepsi" bezel inserts out there, both Rolex aftermarket and on other brands. There is no Rolex identifier, trademark or patented process on any of the "Pepsi" bezels. Rolex doesn't even have a parts number on their bezels. This should have zero impact on the 6542.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

Thieuster said:


> I've said it before and I will say it again: someone a the Rolex HQ is reading MKII threads!
> 
> A nice article here: Rolex GMT-Master II 116719 BLRO Watch With Red & Blue Ceramic: Return Of The Pepsi Bezel | aBlogtoWatch And it struck me that the title of the article reads: 'The Return of the Pepsi Bezel' (!) According to the article, Rolex stopped making that bezel in 2007. And one of the details mentioned in the early days of the Key West's design was... the return of the Pepsi!
> Over the years, Bill came up with various designs (Vantage 39mm), LRRP with the Capstone bezel & Kingston that are closely followed by Rolex' own designs.
> 
> This time the design and build of the KW is a little slower than expected; had it been delivered to Plank Owners last year or early this year, Bill would -again- have been ahead of Rolex!
> Now... let's wait for Rolex' interpretation of the Fulcrum...
> 
> Menno


This is a great looking watch. I am very impressed. I love that there is no pip. I love the triangle on the bezel. It is just so nice looking.


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## TheDude

The all black works too... Been enjoying this one since 2007.










Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

I've always liked the all-black bezel with the gold-stainless model










(Pic from the internet, not my own...)


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## Plat0

White Tuna said:


> This is a great looking watch. I am very impressed. I love that there is no pip. I love the triangle on the bezel. It is just so nice looking.


As much as I love the new GMT; it is literally a grail watch to me now in the sense that I'll HAVE to win the lottery to get one. White gold isn't really my thing but I cannot contest the beauty of the ceramic and fine lines of that new GMT.

Anyway: I cannot wait to see the Key West prototype!


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## Arthur

From the info that came from the NY GTG, it looks like the last problem with the Key West was the date wheel fonts, which from what I read are now solved. Hopefully the Key West will be moving forward at a faster pace now. Good news for all of us that have been waiting somewhat patiently for progress. 

Just my speculation, as there has been no announcement one way or the other, but the DW fonts needed to be bigger to fill up the Date window. From that I'm speculating that the KW will not have a cyclops like the Rolex 6542. Not a deal breaker for me by any means, but two of the things that I was hoping for, a bezel insert with Lume, like the original 6542 and the cyclops are not going to be available on the KW. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## cpotters

Arthur said:


> From the info that came from the NY GTG, it looks like the last problem with the Key West was the date wheel fonts, which from what I read are now solved. Hopefully the Key West will be moving forward at a faster pace now. Good news for all of us that have been waiting somewhat patiently for progress.
> 
> Just my speculation, as there has been no announcement one way or the other, but the DW fonts needed to be bigger to fill up the Date window. From that I'm speculating that the KW will not have a cyclops like the Rolex 6542. Not a deal breaker for me by any means, but two of the things that I was hoping for, a bezel insert with Lume, like the original 6542 and the cyclops are not going to be available on the KW.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The way that Bill explained it to me was.... In order to actually fill the date window gracefully, the original actually used 4 different sized fonts - one size for the 1 thru 9, then ANOTHER size for the 10 thru 19, ANOTHER for 20 thru 29 and still ANOTHER for 30 and 31. As a result, when Bill came up with the typeface for the wheel, merely blowing up the numbers or shrinking them down to fit the window didn't work to his satisfaction because it looked like a slap-dash effort to fill the window. As a result, his "secret type-font gnome" was working overtime to make it look "right". You know what a perfectionist he can be, and this is one of those examples where we never see how much time and effort goes into a tiny tiny detail. It was actually a fascinating chat...


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## Arthur

cpotters said:


> The way that Bill explained it to me was.... In order to actually fill the date window gracefully, the original actually used 4 different sized fonts - one size for the 1 thru 9, then ANOTHER size for the 10 thru 19, ANOTHER for 20 thru 29 and still ANOTHER for 30 and 31. As a result, when Bill came up with the typeface for the wheel, merely blowing up the numbers or shrinking them down to fit the window didn't work to his satisfaction because it looked like a slap-dash effort to fill the window. As a result, his "secret type-font gnome" was working overtime to make it look "right". You know what a perfectionist he can be, and this is one of those examples where we never see how much time and effort goes into a tiny tiny detail. It was actually a fascinating chat...


That's very interesting. I have had several NOS Rolex DW's over the years, from days when you got parts back after service, and they all looked like they were the same size. I never actually measured them though. When you look at the numbers through a 2.5X cyclops, they all look huge!!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> ...two of the things that I was hoping for, a bezel insert with Lume, like the original 6542 and the cyclops are not going to be available on the KW.


I'm completely with you. But I hope that Bill is going to surprise us by telling us, at the last minute, that he pulled a rabbit out of his hat, with respect to the bezel. I know it won't happen, but I'm still hoping that we get something epic for the bezel.


----------



## cpotters

BigHaole said:


> I'm completely with you. But I hope that Bill is going to surprise us by telling us, at the last minute, that he pulled a rabbit out of his hat, with respect to the bezel. I know it won't happen, but I'm still hoping that we get something epic for the bezel.


What had happened with several of the watches that Bill had done in the past using a lumed acrylic bezel was that when he put the luminous paint into the reversed-engraved numbers all was fine, however problems arose once he started adding the second layer of paint (black for some watches, presumably red and blue for the Key West) in that there was paint "creep" into the luminous paint on enough of them that made the significantly higher scrap rate a real problem.

Additionally, he had to wonder: if they were this tricky at manufacture, what problems might occur a few years down the road (and THIS, of course, is EXACTLY what hapened to R*L*X and their "Bakelite" bezels when the watches were first produced - with so many breaking that the service department was instructed to replace defective bakelite bezels with newly designed aluminum ones, and all future models then came ONLY with aluminum bezels).

We chatted about a few ideas, none of which are things that you'd put on the public forum, that are interesting and potentially revolutionary is some cases. In any event, I'm game for anything that gives us that "look and feel", so I'll let him work out the details if at all possible. I just felt it was worth sharing that - despite obstacles - he wasn't just going to throw an aluminum bezel on there because if was an easier and more proven alternative.


----------



## curt941

On the date wheel issue, here are some rolex examples.

3035 Date Disk, you'd see this in 16800 submariner for example.

Notice how the single digits are as wide as the double digits? This fills the date window, and looks freaking awesome.










This is a more modern 3135 date disk, they did away with the large single digits...sad. If you look at a modern rolex there is more white space in the date window now.


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## tmoris

fascinating insights cpotters, keep this coming! im all ears! such a shame NY is so far away


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## BigHaole

curt941 said:


> On the date wheel issue, here are some rolex examples.
> 
> 3035 Date Disk, you'd see this in 16800 submariner for example.
> 
> Notice how the single digits are as wide as the double digits? This fills the date window, and looks freaking awesome.


So it looks like Font #1 for 1 - 9, Font #2 for 10-19, Font #3, for 20-30, and Font #4 for 31.

I can't wait to see this in real life!


----------



## BigHaole

BigHaole said:


> So it looks like Font #1 for 1 - 9, Font #2 for 10-19, Font #3, for 20-30, and Font #4 for 31.
> 
> I can't wait to see this in real life!


Slight correction. It looks like 3 fonts, with Font #2 used for 10-19 and 31.


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## curt941

21 is the same font as 31 as well it appears.

Keep in mind though, that's a date wheel for a 3035 movement, i'll try and find a date wheel for a 1030 movement.

I believe this is it...


----------



## BigHaole

curt941 said:


> 21 is the same font as 31 as well it appears.
> 
> Excellent catch!
> 
> So it is:
> Font #1 for 1 - 9
> Font #2 for 10 - 19, 21, 31
> Font #3 for 20, 22 - 30


----------



## Arthur

Man you learn something every day. I've looked at lots of Rolex DW's and I never noticed the font size difference, but when you know what to look for, it stands out like a sore thumb!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

Capt Obvious here, noting that when one double-digit numeral is 1, the other fills in. Very distinctive. 

// Tapatalk on Nexus 4 //


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## POR901

Interesting news from Bill's site.....full steam ahead.

We have completed the font for the date wheel and will be finalizing the formal purchase order for the part. There are still some stages left where we will have to go through confirmation of the order and design, after which we will get a sample for confirmation. Finalization of the dial/hand design so that it can be submitted for mass production will begin in May.


----------



## BigHaole

POR901 said:


> Interesting news from Bill's site.....full steam ahead


This is great news! I love getting these updates.


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## nick_sixx

Forgive my ignorance, but the website seems to make out as though there will only be a white-dialed version, and the production run will be even more limited than initially thought. Is this true? I've read through the last four pages or so to try and find out more, but can't find anything 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Plat0

nick_sixx said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but the website seems to make out as though there will only be a white-dialed version, and the production run will be even more limited than initially thought. Is this true? I've read through the last four pages or so to try and find out more, but can't find anything
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


There hasn't been any discussion on this. But I'm more than sure there will be a dial black dial option. There's more of a possibility that the white dial won't happen since we still have not seen a white dialed MKII.


----------



## eganwh

Bill's comments from upthread. I have not heard of any change in direction.



Yao said:


> Yes there will be a black and white dial option. There will also be options for the corresponding bezels in aluminum. We are still trying to work out a sapphire option for the bezel.





Plat0 said:


> There hasn't been any discussion on this. But I'm more than sure there will be a dial black dial option. There's more of a possibility that the white dial won't happen since we still have not seen a white dialed MKII.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Wow this looks amazing...I must have it! I don't regret missing the Kingston if I could have this baby on my wrist!


----------



## Mintu

watch collection is a new bug i have bitten by.
GMT looks amazing. I missed Kingston.
i searched but couldn't find lug to lug length of this GMT project watch. does anybody know approx. lug to lug for this watch?
when will pre order go live?

thanks.


----------



## jussi

-Lug to lug will be 47,96 mm's
-The Pre-order went live a looong time ago (January 20th 2012 to be more precise ;-) ) and is closed... but general order will open when Bill is good & ready :-!


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Yao said:


> Our ability to built more Project GMT's is basically constrained by the supply of 2893s. Soprod has an alternative but it is expensive. So if we ever do a "general" release of this watch by default it will have to be more expensive than the Project GMT will be. The price of the Project GMT movements have already been fixed so there is no change there.


I've heard some think the Soprods are more accurate or made with higher quality components. I don't think there is any evidence for that as of yet though. Regardless, I would pay the extra money for the Key West...it isn't your fault for the price of Soprods or lack of ETAs Bill.


----------



## Hoppyjr

jussi said:


> -Lug to lug will be 47,96 mm's
> -The Pre-order went live a looong time ago (January 20th 2012 to be more precise ;-) ) and is closed... but general order will open when Bill is good & ready :-!


Two and a half years and counting.....you guys are a very understanding bunch.


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## 66Cooper

Sometimes it feels like just yesterday


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## Dragoon

Well, it really is not a bad way to go. The long delay between pre pay and delivery gives time to save for the final payment.

And, like anything in life, the time keeps on ticking regardless if you make a committment or not. The bonus of making a committment is that after a few years you receive an (based on past experiences) incredible watch. If you do not make a committment, after a few years you (most likely) do NOT receive this incredible watch (at which usually turns out to be an incredible price also).

The Kingstons in cluded a plank kit with an extra case, bracelet, crystal, bezel, dial, and hands for under $800.

The Project 300 includes a plank kit of sorts with some extras plus at $1600 for an MKII version of the Seamaster 300 should be a screaming deal for a brand new watch. I cannot think of a better alternative at a better price than the MKII Project 300 if you want a version of the iconic Seamaster 300. Timefactors has made a nice version and WatchCO is nice. Lets see how MKII does with this one. I predict it is going to be something to see.

The Project GMT will also have an extra of some type and for $1200 you have an excellent homage to the Pan Am Rolex GMT, an iconic piece which is brand new with a high grade ETA 2893 (I think thats the caliber #).

I really think it all comes down to what you want. And, if you have the ability to wait without freaking out about it. Not everyone can. The value is there and the product quality is there like with all the MKII watches that I have ever seen. Also, Bill has a track record of delivering on his projects, eventually. I am mpre than OK with that.



Hoppyjr said:


> Two and a half years and counting.....you guys are a very understanding bunch.


----------



## Hoppyjr

All true. I've enjoyed the MKII pieces I've owned and there is no doubt Bill makes a quality product. This said, it still takes too long.


----------



## Dragoon

There is a movement in Finland which revolves around the idea of "slowing down". I think some of us are running slightly fast all the time and might need to be regulated to a higher amplitude by slowing down our pace.

I think Bill is already there. He has a very good perspective and appears to be in a constant state of self introspection in the amount of time it takes to create his watches. He appears to study this and takes as much time as he feels is warranted in developing a methodology that accurately estimates how long it takes for him to deliver a watch for his own knowledge base. I do not think this information is for public consumption until the watches are offered for sale and we see the 20 week wait time or whatever it is.

I think most customers want something right now if given a choice but I really believe the second choice of most customers of a limited production high quality product is to be delivered a high quality and properly engineered and constructed product first and will endure the time necessary to deliver such product second. All the better if this time frame can be given at the outset. But, for many, the time element is not the most important aspect. Since the product is limited by its very nature.... it really isnt necessary for Bill to "hurry up".

And, Bill also has to endure the extraordinary delays that can be inherent in the business of watch manufacture. It just is not a fast paced process from an outsiders perspective. I am sure Bill is busy on a daily basis but this does not always translate to a quickly produced product.

As such, Bill will always have customers because he can deliver an extremely high quality and desirable product for a reasonable amount of money.

So, "too long" is probably a term that doesnt apply to the new group of limited production artists and manufactures who are catering to a very limited clientele. It is just part of the process necessary to deliver the product that customers love to buy.

There are no short cuts.

And , Bill also has to maintain his health and sanity in the process. I know of a few micro producers, jewelers, and artisans that literally work themselves into poor health. They do and have recovered but as Clint likes to say...."a man gots to know his limitations."

I believe you really can do more harm than good by constantly accelerating your pace. For every Yin there NEEDS to be a Yang to have a healthy balance.

Time for a vacation, isnt it? Go down to the beach and lay in the hot sand for a few and listen to waves roll in and the seagulls sing. Go in the water and feel the cool sensation and be glad you are alive.



Hoppyjr said:


> All true. I've enjoyed the MKII pieces I've owned and there is no doubt Bill makes a quality product. This said, it still takes too long.


----------



## White Tuna

Hoppyjr said:


> Two and a half years and counting.....you guys are a very understanding bunch.


I agree. I understood what I was getting into before I placed my order. What I do not understand is why people who do not have an order in care?


----------



## Hoppyjr

White Tuna said:


> I agree. I understood what I was getting into before I placed my order. What I do not understand is why people who do not have an order in care?


I don't. I was simply expressing an opinion. I wouldn't object to having an order in, I just can't wait the undetermined amount of time. Silly me.


----------



## BigHaole

I have an order in...and I very much care. But, it sounds like we're heading toward completion, if ever so slowly. At least now there is a flow of information, again, which I find helpful.


----------



## White Tuna

Hoppyjr said:


> I don't. I was simply expressing an opinion. I wouldn't object to having an order in, I just can't wait the undetermined amount of time. Silly me.


I just like freedom and a large amount of choices. Silly me.

I have to say I got over not getting everything I want when I want it around the age of two. It is such a tough world.


----------



## Hoppyjr

White Tuna said:


> I just like freedom and a large amount of choices. Silly me.
> 
> I have to say I got over not getting everything I want when I want it around the age of two. It is such a tough world.


.....but apparently you still enjoy being confrontational and insulting.


----------



## White Tuna

Hoppyjr said:


> Two and a half years and counting.....you guys are a very understanding bunch.





Hoppyjr said:


> All true. I've enjoyed the MKII pieces I've owned and there is no doubt Bill makes a quality product. *This said, it still takes too long.*





Hoppyjr said:


> I don't. I was simply expressing an opinion. I wouldn't object to having an order in, I just can't wait the undetermined amount of time. Silly me.





Hoppyjr said:


> .....but apparently you still enjoy being confrontational and insulting.


Just because you are "polite" about it does not mean you are any less insulting. I can understand it you are not interested in this project but I cannot see anything productive in your posts. They seem to be about you and not about the project/watch. If you want a thread about you please take it to the Café. I look at this thread for news on Project GMT which I am invested in. Silly me.


----------



## GinGinD

Hoppyjr said:


> .....but apparently you still enjoy being confrontational and insulting.





White Tuna said:


> Just because you are "polite" about it does not mean you are any less insulting. I can understand it you are not interested in this project but I cannot see anything productive in your posts. They seem to be about you and not about the project/watch. If you want a thread about you please take it to the Café. I look at this thread for news on Project GMT which I am invested in. Silly me.


Enough please, gentlemen.

Jeannie


----------



## JohnF

What my fellow moderator has said: enough.

If not, I will ruthlessly prune this thread and have no problems giving out a ban. Seriously.

Consider this a final warning.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

JohnF said:


> What my fellow moderator has said: enough. If not, I will ruthlessly prune this thread and have no problems giving out a ban. Seriously. Consider this a final warning.


*Thanks*, JohnF. |>

:think: I think this thread could really stand a *'ruthless pruning.'*  *

Seriously.*

_*....not *so *sure about a ban* though....

But that isn't up to me, is it?_ :-d

-Best-

|>|>

:think: _Edited:_ Upon reflection, and recollection of some comments that have been posted in this thread (and others) perhaps it is time for one, or some, to be *Banned*.

In any case, *I appreciate the Mods and their efforts to reign in the off-topic sniping. Thank You, Moderators.*

|>|>


----------



## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> *Thanks*, JohnF. |>
> 
> :think: I think this thread could really stand a *'ruthless pruning.'*  *
> 
> Seriously.*
> 
> _*....not *so *sure about a ban* though....
> 
> But that isn't up to me, is it?_ :-d
> 
> -Best-
> 
> |>|>


The major reason that I stop by this forum as much as I do is that I want news of a Root Beer dialed Project GMT announced. I know I will get my Key Wests when Bill is satisfied with them. What I do not know, and I am highly interested in, is if there will ever be a Gilt Root Beer dialed version. Now that would be tasty goodness.








I really do not think this is the place to discuss the MKII business model. There is actually a whole other non-WUS forum based on that.


----------



## BigHaole

Cigar dialed, gilt, root beer bezeled and named "Havana"!


----------



## TheDude

Thanks to the mods for reigning in the trolling and the inevitable responses. This has historically reared its head in the past regarding wait times but was not dealt with. 

Seriously, thanks. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> This is a mockup that *Malyel* did:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-name-discussion-698878-4.html#post5120007
> 
> I really love it and would like to see a root beer dialed version at some point. There are just sooooo many black dialed watches.
> 
> I also would prefer a larger crown and C3 lume. I think the date wheels have already been ordered. I really am not going to fight for a cyclops....I think that ship has sailed. Until I received my Kingston I was a huge proponent of the sapphire bezel insert but I love my Kingston bezel so I am not that concerned about it either way.
> 
> BTW Bill, when you make the Root Beer dialed one you can call it the Havana. :-d


This is the one that would get me to pre-order a 2nd MKII watch!


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> This is the one that would get me to pre-order a 2nd MKII watch!


I would prefer the Havana to be a little more like this:









Or possibly this:









But I would be happy with something similar to the mockup that Malyel did.

Who am I kidding? I want them ALL!


----------



## MHe225

What a let down ..... I saw a few pages were added, only to find some bickering and trolling. Silly me for hoping there was news on the watch, reports of progress, new developments, pictures, ...... Silly me.

Thanks to the mods for putting this brushfire out. 
See you all in a few (weeks that is)

RonB

PS - can you imagine how my updated picture will look, with Kingston, BC Nassau, Key West (white gilt dial) in it??


----------



## White Tuna

MHe225 said:


> What a let down ..... I saw a few pages were added, only to find some bickering and trolling. Silly me for hoping there was news on the watch, reports of progress, new developments, pictures, ...... Silly me.
> 
> Thanks to the mods for putting this brushfire out.
> See you all in a few (weeks that is)
> 
> RonB
> 
> PS - can you imagine how my updated picture will look, with Kingston, BC Nassau, Key West (white gilt dial) in it??
> 
> View attachment 1496058


It would be nice if you got a big crown Key West. But I do not think that will ever happen. I love that picture.


----------



## tmoris

i find a parallel between investing the Warren Buffett way and ordering an MKii. Both pay well in their own due time


----------



## Chromejob

White Tuna said:


> Just because you are "polite" about it does not mean you are any less insulting. I can understand it you are not interested in this project but I cannot see anything productive in your posts. They seem to be about you and not about the project/watch. If you want a thread about you please take it to the Café. I look at this thread for news on Project GMT which I am invested in. Silly me.


FWIW I didn't perceive any insult or snarkiness in his posts.

// Tapatalk on Nexus 7 //


----------



## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> FWIW I didn't perceive any insult or snarkiness in his posts.
> 
> // Tapatalk on Nexus 7 //


"Silly me."


----------



## patsaydat

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



cpotters said:


> Ok. One foot in front of the other. I'd want the dial to look as close to the original or, more specifically - as different from the current Rollie GMT - as possible.


Same for me


----------



## Arthur

Thanks John for putting a stop to the silly trolling. Adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and just makes folks who have a "skin in the game" angry. This turn sort of reminds me of the stuff that appeared in the Kingston thread a couple of years ago. Very few negative comments were actually made by folks who had a watch on order. Some folks got ginned up when they thought that watches were being shipped out of order, until folks realized the watches were being delivered in batches by dial type.
Like all the previous MKII models, the GMT will come. Good things come to those who wait!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Arthur said:


> *Thanks John* for putting a stop to the silly trolling. Adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and just makes folks who have a "skin in the game" angry. .............Like all the previous MKII models, the GMT will come. Good things come to those who wait!!....


Thanks, Arthur |>


----------



## BigHaole

Latest project update from the MKII website:

"The font has been finished and the artwork has just been sent off to the printers. There is still a little bit of technical work to do on the vendor’s side. We haven’t designed a date wheel before so we didn’t do the layout, just the scaling of the numbers and the font work. After that is approved we will be able to start the samples.In the mean time I can resume work on the dial and get that finalized for the dial printer to start on."


----------



## nick_sixx

BigHaole said:


> Latest project update from the MKII website:
> 
> "The font has been finished and the artwork has just been sent off to the printers. There is still a little bit of technical work to do on the vendor's side. We haven't designed a date wheel before so we didn't do the layout, just the scaling of the numbers and the font work. After that is approved we will be able to start the samples.In the mean time I can resume work on the dial and get that finalized for the dial printer to start on."


Great news. I've been subscribed to this thread for 6 months checking for updates daily, and the wait is killing me! I can't even imagine how those waiting for the SM300 must feel!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

I have to say, getting these monthly-ish updates is really helpful, for me. I feel like the project is still on the radar and is making progress.


----------



## TheDude

I think it's safe to say these will begin trickling out before the end of the year. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> I think it's safe to say these will begin trickling out before the end of the year.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


How long did the Kingstons take, from first shipped watch to last? Is the Key West likely to go faster, due to fewer variations, or does that have little impact on assembly times?


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> How long did the Kingstons take, from first shipped watch to last? Is the Key West likely to go faster, due to fewer variations, or does that have little impact on assembly times?


I think that the Key West has a good chance to ship a lot faster than the Kingston times. IIRC the valve stem was a huge manpower drain and that should not be as big an issue, or an issue at all, with the Key West.

I have a feeling that delivery times for the Key West will be impacted by other watch orders though and I have no problems with that.


----------



## Arthur

That's great news. The project is moving ahead which is a positive for everyone who is in the pre-order lineup.
I'm actually looking forward to the Key West more than the Kingston.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

White Tuna said:


> I think that the Key West has a good chance to ship a lot faster than the Kingston times. IIRC the valve stem was a huge manpower drain and that should not be as big an issue, or an issue at all, with the Key West.
> 
> I have a feeling that delivery times for the Key West will be impacted by other watch orders though and I have no problems with that.


:-s * "... valve stem...."* :-s

Aha! :think:

-or-

"Crown and stem"


----------



## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :-s * "... valve stem...."* :-s
> 
> Aha! :think:
> 
> -or-
> 
> "Crown and stem"


Crown and stem or Crown and Coke? 

OK, I admit it, I don't know anything about the assembly of watches. I am just along for the ride. I would say that about 10% of my MKII information is accurate, 10% made up so I sound like I know what I am talking and the remaining 100% just wrong. 

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!


----------



## Axelay2003

White Tuna said:


> Crown and stem or Crown and Coke?
> 
> OK, I admit it, I don't know anything about the assembly of watches. I am just along for the ride. I would say that about 10% of my MKII information is accurate, 10% made up so I sound like I know what I am talking and the remaining 100% just wrong.
> 
> Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!


I've been reading all of these updates and then you state that only 10% of what you type is accurate? I don't know if I should take your comments literally or sarcastically. Oh well.....


----------



## cpotters

Axelay2003 said:


> I've been reading all of these updates and then you state that only 10% of what you type is accurate? I don't know if I should take your comments literally or sarcastically. Oh well.....


I'd go with sarcastic - my money is on him knowing what he's talking about... my $0.02


----------



## BigHaole

New update on the website:

"Date wheel production has been approved. We expect to have some samples in a few weeks. Pending the quality of the samples we will post some pics."

Looking forward to seeing the pics!


----------



## POR901

Great news....this is getting exciting!


----------



## Elf1962

Any idea when the second round of pre-orders will open?


----------



## DEV.Woulf

... :roll:


----------



## JFingers

Actually, IIRC, only the 60 pre-orders were completed. That leaves 190 left for a general release with the ETA movement. If you haven't already, sign up for the Key West emails on the MKII website.
Blue skies,
-only jake


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Yao said:


> Our ability to built more Project GMT's is basically constrained by the supply of 2893s. Soprod has an alternative but it is expensive. So if we ever do a "general" release of this watch by default it will have to be more expensive than the Project GMT will be. The price of the Project GMT movements have already been fixed so there is no change there.





Yao said:


> There will be about 300 watches and only about 60-70 are spoken for right now. I haven't figured out how to release the remaining spots yet.





Yao said:


> Still trying to figure that out right now.


Thanks for the correction, JFingers. Ahhhhhhh...I get it. Bill means *after* the 250-300 are finished with the ETAs he has left. I read it backwards. :-s Oh, that's great news for me. I think the Coke bezel/black dial would look real classy on a black alligator strap. :-!


----------



## traviss0

Oh, I hope I get in on this. I have been on a noble quest for a white-faced GMT. The Rolex Explorer II is my dream but 6-8k is not doable. Especially when I think I could get 6-10 really nice watches of all different styles for that price (I am one of those 2k and under watch fanatics).

Maybe I am reading the signs wrong but I cannot figure out for the life of me why the independent watch makers like CW, Steinhart, etc do not offer white-faced versions of their "Rolex" homages. Take the Steinhart Ocean GMT or the CW Trident GMT, why wouldn't you offer a white faced version? Not enough demand? Based on this thread and everyone's patience it seems hard to believe.

Even better is MKII is offering it. I have yet to hear 1 negative thing about MKII. I really really hope I check the site at the right time and can order it.

Rant over. You guys are awesome (especially you MKII).


----------



## White Tuna

traviss0 said:


> Oh, I hope I get in on this. I have been on a noble quest for a white-faced GMT. The Rolex Explorer II is my dream but 6-8k is not doable. Especially when I think I could get 6-10 really nice watches of all different styles for that price (I am one of those 2k and under watch fanatics).
> 
> Maybe I am reading the signs wrong but I cannot figure out for the life of me why the independent watch makers like CW, Steinhart, etc do not offer white-faced versions of their "Rolex" homages. Take the Steinhart Ocean GMT or the CW Trident GMT, why wouldn't you offer a white faced version? Not enough demand? Based on this thread and everyone's patience it seems hard to believe.
> 
> Even better is MKII is offering it. I have yet to hear 1 negative thing about MKII. I really really hope I check the site at the right time and can order it.
> 
> Rant over. You guys are awesome (especially you MKII).


----------



## JCW1980

BigHaole said:


> New update on the website:
> 
> "Date wheel production has been approved. We expect to have some samples in a few weeks. Pending the quality of the samples we will post some pics."


After more than two years, I'm still annoyed with myself that I was out of the country when the pre order opened and closed. :-/

It's been really nice seeing rhythmic updates on this project here recently! VERY Much looking forward to seeing more teaser pics to add to the white dial Bill posted on the tumblr gallery 18-ish months ago. ;-)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*More Good News* (on the MKII site News/Updates) 2014-06-09: Project GMT-Hands in process

*






*


----------



## JCW1980

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> *More Good News* (on the MKII site News/Updates)


Excellent! I know there was a lot of discussion about the GMT hand design, once upon a time...I remember taking part... Were we ever privy to what the final decision was? i.e. - big/small triangle? I'm assuming the hand color is still red?


----------



## Cleans Up

hooray updates!


----------



## White Tuna

JCW1980 said:


> Excellent! I know there was a lot of discussion about the GMT hand design, once upon a time...I remember taking part... Were we ever privy to what the final decision was? i.e. - big/small triangle? I'm assuming the hand color is still red?


I am pretty confident this is the final design though I am not sure if the final color was red or white:


----------



## mrklabb

I've gone from checking status of project GMT new preorders opening up from daily to weekly, the horror! They will probably open up while I'm in Cabo


----------



## Dragoon

Yep.... White faced watches are somewhat of arisk ...unless u r Rolex, I suppose. That is why u don't see a lot of em. How many mkii white dial pieces u seen? They just don't sell as well. And at usd 1200 apiece u really do not want them hanging around for a long time in inventory.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## curt941

I think that since the Project GMT is made to order, they will only make enough white dials to satisfy demand. And since it's an homage to the elusive white dial "Pan Am" Rolex GMT Master, it will be a popular choice.

I'm planning to buy one White dial with C3 lume and pepsi bezel insert and one Black Dial with BGW9 lume and Coke insert.



Dragoon said:


> Yep.... White faced watches are somewhat of arisk ...unless u r Rolex, I suppose. That is why u don't see a lot of em. How many mkii white dial pieces u seen? They just don't sell as well. And at usd 1200 apiece u really do not want them hanging around for a long time in inventory.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JPMIA

JCW1980 said:


> After more than two years, I'm still annoyed with myself that I was out of the country when the pre order opened and closed. :-/


You could not express the way I feel any better. I better get on the 2nd round...


----------



## Dragoon

Oh yeah, no question the white dial option on the Key West will be ultra popular as it is a homage to a very rare Rolex.

I was responding to an earlier post where the poster had asked why this piece or a white dial GMT homage to the Pan Am had not been previously issued by another manufacturer. (probably should of quoted the post in my original response but was lazy!!!)

I think Aramar actually did produce another homage to the Rolex GMT in a white dial and it was a beauty. About 5 years ago maybe. But, very limited production and for a dutch watch forum , I think.



curt941 said:


> I think that since the Project GMT is made to order, they will only make enough white dials to satisfy demand. And since it's an homage to the elusive white dial "Pan Am" Rolex GMT Master, it will be a popular choice.
> 
> I'm planning to buy one White dial with C3 lume and pepsi bezel insert and one Black Dial with BGW9 lume and Coke insert.


----------



## Jfha1210

Guilted black dial for me, with pepsi or coke bezel & roulette date wheel... 


JH iPhone


----------



## POR901

Here's an interesting new GMT to hit the market.....doesn't look as good as the upcoming Key West. https://www.watchuseek.com/f30/fs-nivrel-aramar-worldport-gmt-1048426.html


----------



## tmoris

My eyes, my eyes, aaaaaaaaarrrrggghhhhh.......


On a more serious note. Ugh, no.


----------



## Arthur

If there were no other options for the next 10 years, maybe this one (Worldport) would be acceptable, but it has so many things wrong! That ugly crown that big lollipop hour hand are the two worst offenders to me. Also, most of the manufacturers who try to make new Lume look vintage fail miserably. They end up with ugly yellow new Lume!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Darwin

I believe that the Aramar is a Steinhart Ocean 1 with an Aramar dial (though I do recall that the relationship between the two companies came to an end a year or two ago so perhaps Aramar's latest offerings are sourced elsewhere?).


----------



## Dragoon

Last I read in the Aramar thread was that they were going to be partnering up with Grovana on future projects. And, Grovana has had a very close relationship with Steinhart producing much of their early models. 

So, not surprising this piece might have the look of an Ocean 1.


----------



## Darwin

Hmmm - thanks, Dragoon. That makes sense. Just noticed the no crown guards case. Interesting. Wouldn't be surprised, though, if it proved to use the same case (or at least the blank) as Steinhart uses for the Ocean 1 Vintage...


----------



## Dragoon

Sure, could easily be one of the renditions for the Ocean 1 line case blank. There was also pieces they made for Robert Watches and maybe even a few other companies using the same or similar diver cases.



Darwin said:


> Hmmm - thanks, Dragoon. That makes sense. Just noticed the no crown guards case. Interesting. Wouldn't be surprised, though, if it proved to use the same case (or at least the blank) as Steinhart uses for the Ocean 1 Vintage...


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Thanks for the info. ;-)







Shows to go ya'......








_*Details Matter *_








_ :think: and make all the Difference. _

_ No Trouble with the Wait here......._








I *Know* that MKII's vision and product outcome will be vastly Superior to this effort........ :think:

And _*Worth the Wait*_.


----------



## Dragoon

I liked the previous GMT homage that Aramar did a few years back a little better than this black dial piece. 

I give Maurice props, but I think Bill's rendition will blow this Aramar 6538 homage out of the water. For the price and time frame the Aramar is something for others to consider. 

Not for me this time.


----------



## mrklabb

I almost got a Rolex blnr yesterday but desided to wait for this gmt watch, snagged a legend diver to tide me over until my 369 Nassau arrives.


----------



## Aramar

I do not know where to find it but can anyone post the designs of the 6542 homage of Mkii here. Or pm me with these designs. I really wonder how it looks.


----------



## Dragoon

Just contact Bill Yao with your email address and he can email them to you with any information that you may want in more details.

I imagine someone is having some fun with your S/N but in all seriousness the only member I know that has the completedd plans is the White Tuna on the MKII forum. You would really need to PM him. The White tuna is the key to secret MKII blueprints and design info.

Be sure to encrypt your request if you contact THE White Tuna.



Aramar said:


> I do not know where to find it but can anyone post the designs of the 6542 homage of Mkii here. Or pm me with these designs. I really wonder how it looks.


----------



## White Tuna

Dragoon said:


> Just contact Bill Yao with your email address and he can email them to you with any information that you may want in more details.
> 
> I imagine someone is having some fun with your S/N but in all seriousness the only member I know that has the completedd plans is the White Tuna on the MKII forum. You would really need to PM him. The White tuna is the key to secret MKII blueprints and design info.
> 
> Be sure to encrypt your request if you contact THE White Tuna.


I have all of the planz and secretz but I have been sworn to zecrecy on pain of death. Unfortunately I cannot keep a zecret and have met my painful death so I am no longer able to speak on this projectz.

As far as I know there has never been a public release of the full design.

But if Aramar can give more details on the project Aramar watch, like was it produced by Steinhart I think people would like to know.


----------



## Arthur

I think that their were some conceptual renderings way back a couple of years ago. But like ze Tuna said, no photos of the real deal yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aramar

I do not work with Steinhart anymore. The watch is built by Nivrel.


----------



## White Tuna

Aramar said:


> I do not work with Steinhart anymore. The watch is built by Nivrel.


Good info. Thank you for the response. There are some renderings in this thread but I do not think anything final by Bill. I know parts are in production.

I can only speculate but I think Bill is keeping this under wraps because it seems like once the Kingston was announced that a lot of competition appeared before the Kingston hit the market.

Also, whether I agree or disagree with some of the design choices I think it is better to have one overall design philosophy rather than a mishmash of crowd sourced ideas.


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> ...I think it is better to have one overall design philosophy rather than a mishmash of crowd sourced ideas.


Wait, isn't that what the Key West GMT is?


----------



## Dragoon

I guess it depends on how you interpret the project Key West and the Kingston Project pieces. And, in general, I think most producers of Boutique pre order pieces like to get some customer/forum imput and incorporate or modify their designs with elements they think make sense.

So, I think you are correct. This Key West piece does have some crowd sourcing but I also agree that Bill has very distinct ideas about what he wants in his watches and is not going to alter his design on all elements based on the opinions of the crowd if he thinks it is an important element to his design.



BigHaole said:


> Wait, isn't that what the Key West GMT is?


----------



## mrklabb

I don't want to give any input on design, just my money to get in line


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> Wait, isn't that what the Key West GMT is?


Definite maybe.








I just think this is different in that there have not been many explanations and forum votes. I think that the Kingston was more crowd sourced. Have we seen the final design of anything on the Key West?

Of course I am just stating my opinion. I could certainly be out in left field.


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> Definite maybe.
> View attachment 1546976
> 
> 
> I just think this is different in that there have not been many explanations and forum votes. I think that the Kingston was more crowd sourced. Have we seen the final design of anything on the Key West?
> 
> Of course I am just stating my opinion. I could certainly be out in left field.


No, you're correct. During the Kingston design phase a ton of weight was given to the forum members and customers.

Much less input has been in the Key West with the notable exception of the date wheel. That was suggested and lobbied by the members here and Bill has toiled quite a bit for it going way out of his way to deliver.

Scoping the amount of input isn't a bad thing as we all know Bill will do what's best for the project. It'll be fantastic.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

I think there was a lot of input, early on, but then the project just went silent for a long time. We argued quite a bit on the name (I'll still dream of the Havana), the hands and the size of the 24-hour hand (remember, some wanted it to be the tiny triangle of the original, some wanted it a little bit bigger (but not current generation big!) so it would be easier to read), the fonts. I wasn't on the Kingston, so I'll certainly take your word for it being a more crowd-based design. I felt like we had plenty of input along the way on this project. We just never got to formally vote (other than for the name) or heard the final decisions on some of the other details.


----------



## Thieuster

Shortly after the first Kingstons were delivered, there were questions on this forum about a 24hr/GMT-ish version of the Kingston. At first, Bill told us that it would not happen, but he changed his mind and started the KW project. Having learned a few lessons with the Kingston, he decided to make a few Management Decisions without consulting us (the crowd...). And left a lot to decide to us. And that has taken him a lot of time: he investigated nearly all suggestions done by us! E.g. Bakelite bezel/acryl bezel/... bezel. Not only did he search the interwebs and his world wide network for a possible manufacturer. He even asked manufacturers to come up with a sample and a quote (remember, the watch has a fixed price!)

Combined with the facts that...


he runs a one man band
he has to take care of other orders / repairs
he introduced a few other watch during the period (he has to earn money, remember!)
he told us about his health problems
he agreed to rethink the date wheel design
he has to manage all suppliers to make sure all is delivered at the right time
he's an artist when it comes to details and quality control

... it amazes me that he's still so adamant when it comes to succesfully finishing the new masterpiece.

So, sit back and enjoy the ride. Participating in the whole conception and build of this watch makes it something worthwhile - I know, I've been there with the Kingston!

Menno


----------



## mrklabb

Will it be ready by fall? Thoughts?


----------



## mlb212

mrklabb said:


> Will it be ready by fall? Thoughts?


Fall of what year?


----------



## Dragoon

No firm date yet on completion of this piece. I am thinking 2015 at the least. Hope I am wrong.

I am ok with whenever it gets completed.



mrklabb said:


> Will it be ready by fall? Thoughts?


----------



## mrklabb

Dragoon said:


> No firm date yet on completion of this piece. I am thinking 2015 at the least. Hope I am wrong.
> 
> I am ok with whenever it gets completed.


My thoughts as well. Just contemplating getting a blnr, but if this is ready within a year I would just be okay with my 369 Nassau that's eta is in October.


----------



## White Tuna

I am not expecting anything before the end of the year on my most optimistic day. The earliest I expect to see one delivered to an end user would be spring, and I am not expecting it then. 

I appreciate my Kingston just as much as the day it was delivered, maybe even more.


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> I am not expecting anything before the end of the year on my most optimistic day. The earliest I expect to see one delivered to an end user would be spring, and I am not expecting it then.
> 
> I appreciate my Kingston just as much as the day it was delivered, maybe even more.


My goal is early summer (so I can take it on my vacation, next year). I'll keep my Explorer II, as a backup, just in case.


----------



## Arthur

I think that realistically, considering the progress thus far, sometimes next year, hopefully spring would be a pretty good bet. I believe that once everything is finalized, things will come together faster. The "devil is in the details" but that's what sets MKII apart from the others. 
I have owned several watches from other small "boutique" brands, and truthfully, they are all nice watches, but the fit, finish and attention to detail are not as good as my MKII's.


----------



## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> ...I believe that once everything is finalized, things will come together faster...


That quote reminded me of many software releases I've been involved in and how many times we've said those very words. They were never right.  But, hey, I knew exactly what I was signing up for, when I got on the pre-order, and the wait will just make me appreciate the Key West more. As of September, I will by on my 4th job, since I signed up for the Key West (current company is being acquired).


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> That quote reminded me of many software releases I've been involved in and how many times we've said those very words. They were never right.  But, hey, I knew exactly what I was signing up for, when I got on the pre-order, and the wait will just make me appreciate the Key West more. As of September, I will by on my 4th job, since I signed up for the Key West (current company is being acquired).


I feel the same way, I waited a long time for my Kingston, and the best way to handle this, at least for me is to not think about it and go on with what I'm doing and when it's ready, it will be ready. Worrying and fretting about it is not going to get it done any sooner. Having said that, I'm always optimistic that it will get done fairly quickly once all the components are assembled.


----------



## mrklabb

I've been looking at some vintage gmts lately and can't decide what I think about them with a jubilee...thoughts?


----------



## cpotters

mrklabb said:


> I've been looking at some vintage gmts lately and can't decide what I think about them with a jubilee...thoughts?


dont hate them anymore, but still prefer the riveted expanding bracelet...


----------



## TheDude

mrklabb said:


> I've been looking at some vintage gmts lately and can't decide what I think about them with a jubilee...thoughts?


Not into that combo.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

I say it depends on the year. For a 6542, no way. On later ones it's not the worst bracelet combo in the world but I prefer an oyster.


----------



## mrklabb

66Cooper said:


> I say it depends on the year. For a 6542, no way. On later ones it's not the worst bracelet combo in the world but I prefer an oyster.


Talking 1675 reference.. https://www.watchuseek.com/attachme...-rolex-1675-gmt-master-pepsi-excellent-g1.jpg


----------



## Arthur

I like Jubilees, I have a 16750, and I alternate between a Jubilee and an Oyster 78360. Although the 6542 came standard with a rivet bracelet, the jubilee was and option, and over time many folks swapped out their worn out rivets for early jubilees. If you have a 6542, and Rolex serviced it, which they will not do anymore, you would have the option of a Jubilee or Oyster, as the old Rivet bracelets are long out of stock.


----------



## 66Cooper

There is something cool about the jubilee on a gmt. Sets it apart even more from a sub. Maybe a bit more sophisticated and a little less tool-watch. 
Honestly, the both work with the watch and it's great to have the option really


----------



## mrklabb

66Cooper said:


> There is something cool about the jubilee on a gmt. Sets it apart even more from a sub. Maybe a bit more sophisticated and a little less tool-watch.
> Honestly, the both work with the watch and it's great to have the option really


I think you summed up my thoughts. On datejust I see jubilee being a bit dated or feminine, but somewhat distinguished on a gmt.


----------



## Thieuster

66Cooper said:


> There is something cool about the jubilee on a gmt. Sets it apart even more from a sub. Maybe a bit more sophisticated and a little less tool-watch.
> Honestly, the both work with the watch and it's great to have the option really


That is a nice I idea! I don't own a watch with a jubilee. A nice addition to the collection!

Menno


----------



## STEELINOX

Jubilee bracelet "links" = "racing" as in the "checkered flag", that's what it reminds me of, so combo'd with a big diameter case and a bezel with numbers "that moves" makes it all the more tool with racing embodiments...


----------



## 66Cooper

I just happened upon these on the bay


----------



## Fullers1845

^What's the seller name/search term?


----------



## 66Cooper

Qualitytimeva

I believe I was looking up rolex 6542s when I can across it. There is also a gmt themed t-shirt on ebat was well!!! Yikes


----------



## BigHaole

We must be getting close to the launch of the Key West. The accessories are already coming out!


----------



## BigHaole

Latest update on the MKII site: http://www.mkiiwatches.com/2014/08/2014-08-21-project-gmt/

 Quick update&#8230;..
 1) Hands are currently in the manufacturing process
 2) Currently working on the dial design. Finished the first cut this evening. Have to go over the design and check it for alignment and then write the production instructions.
 3) Date wheel is in pre-production&#8230;.the samples have arrived but won't be able to review them until next week. Sorry&#8230;.busy to the point that I haven't even opened the package yet.


----------



## 66Cooper

I like that! Feel bad for bill with that last line. I know how excited I am when a package arrives. To not even have time to sneak a peak:-(


----------



## mrklabb

BigHaole said:


> Latest update on the MKII site: http://www.mkiiwatches.com/2014/08/2014-08-21-project-gmt/
> 
> Quick update&#8230;..
> 1) Hands are currently in the manufacturing process
> 2) Currently working on the dial design. Finished the first cut this evening. Have to go over the design and check it for alignment and then write the production instructions.
> 3) Date wheel is in pre-production&#8230;.the samples have arrived but won't be able to review them until next week. Sorry&#8230;.busy to the point that I haven't even opened the package yet.


ETA translation? 10-12 months?


----------



## STEELINOX

mrklabb said:


> ETA translation? 10-12 months?


How about, it'll be here when it gets here and not a second sooner (except for those of ya that r in the pre sale group)!!!...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Good News update posted at MKII

2014-09-02: Project GMT

Momentum building?

:-!


----------



## BigHaole

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Good News update posted at MKII
> 
> 2014-09-02: Project GMT
> 
> Momentum building?
> 
> :-!


I love that the project is really moving now. I just wish we knew a little bit more about what the final decisions were on the dial, the hands, etc. I guess we'll be surprised!


----------



## TheDude

Depending on how the initial production goes of these final components (in other words, if they don't have to be redone), we could see a few trickle out before the end of the year in my opinion. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## americandave

Was Taiwan part of the build process? Or was that solely R&R?

Based on progress to date, I can't imagine project GMT will be available to buyers before 2016.


----------



## Arthur

americandave said:


> Was Taiwan part of the build process? Or was that solely R&R?
> 
> Based on progress to date, I can't imagine project GMT will be available to buyers before 2016.


I believe that the first ones will be somewhere between your's and The Dude's estimate. I'm hoping that they will start moving out in the first quarter of 2015.
I was one of the first to sign up and pay, so I'm hoping that my times are close to reality, but, we will see!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## TheDude

Shrug. I think once the parts land, Bill will have a few assembled within a week or so. I'm either 2nd or 3rd so it really could be by end of the year. 

There are nearly four months left in 2014... 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

Is there any way to tell what your number in the queue is? I know I didn't jump on the pre-order, the first day, so I'm not in the top 10. 

When the Kingston was in full swing, what was the cycle rate of watches being shipped? I hope the assembly should be simpler/easier, since there are fewer possible combinations + lessons learned on earlier projects.


----------



## 66Cooper

I remember with the Kingston I had a queue number, it was in the 40's. Not sure I ever got one with this order though. 

No one but bill could tell you the next one. With the Kingston, I actually didn't build them in order I believe. He would do groups if like-speced pieces.


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## 66Cooper

Multi-post. Sorry


----------



## White Tuna

IIRC, the Queue number did not have much to do with delivery times. It was the phase and options that made the most difference IMHO.


----------



## BigHaole

I know the Kingston was delivered out of order, due to the configuration options. But does anyone know how many were delivered per week or per month? It will also be interesting to see when the ordering opens up again. Will it be before shipments start to plank holders or after?


----------



## JFingers

BigHaole said:


> ... It will also be interesting to see when the ordering opens up again....


I anxiously await this moment in time. This watch, and one more by different brand and my collection will be complete for a long, long time.

Blue skies, y'all, we'll see this watch soon, and it will be spectacular, I have no doubt. 
-only Jake


----------



## TheDude

I've explained how I know my spot before so I won't waste the space here rehashing. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Darwin

Oh, come on! What's the other watch?!



JFingers said:


> I anxiously await this moment in time. This watch, and one more by different brand and my collection will be complete for a long, long time.
> 
> Blue skies, y'all, we'll see this watch soon, and it will be spectacular, I have no doubt.
> -only Jake


----------



## JFingers

Darwin said:


> Oh, come on! What's the other watch?!


I can't jinx it...! 
I just wish I had more wrists to wear the MKII's I already have and the Key West I lust after.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

JFingers said:


> I can't jinx it...!
> I just wish I had more wrists to wear the MKII's I already have and the Key West I lust after.


:think: Well, I am not sure where the extra arm would be placed, but only *one* additional arm and wrist- That would throw off your inherent 'natural symmetry'.... :roll:

So to keep it all according to plan (somewhat) that would mean you would have to have two additional arms and wrists... :think:

Then you could wear four MKII's at once...... :think:

:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d

_- I suppose you could have some custom super-long nylon straps made and wear 'em on your thighs....That might be a good plan for a pilot.-_


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## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> _- I suppose you could have some custom super-long nylon straps made and wear 'em on your thighs....That might be a good plan for a pilot.-_


LOL!


----------



## nick_sixx




----------



## 66Cooper

That looks nice!!!


----------



## TheDude

nick_sixx said:


>


Lovely! I definitely approve!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## tako_watch

are the crowns 7 or 8mm?


----------



## 66Cooper

I wish they were 8mm. Goes against the original but I just can't get enough of the big crown.


----------



## Arthur

I love the big crowns, but for this one the 7mm is plenty big. The original Rolex 6542's have a 5.3mm crown. Rolex didn't go to bigger crowns on the GMT's until the GMT Master II, 16710


----------



## TheDude

Arthur said:


> I love the big crowns, but for this one the 7mm is plenty big. The original Rolex 6542's have a 5.3mm crown. Rolex didn't go to bigger crowns on the GMT's until the GMT Master II, 16710


Well, we need to define big (diameter or height), and have an idea of scale. The original 6542 was a 36mm watch (even though the 5.3mm stuck around after the GMT grew to 40mm). The scale of the 7mm crown is probably just right for the Nassau given the larger size overall relative even to 40mm Rolexes.

The Fat Lady (16760) got the 6mm crown first and was released before the 16710.

Starting with the current ceramic GMT, Rolex gave it the same triplock crown that goes on the Sub and SeaDweller 4000 (which is "bigger" by being higher).

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> The scale of the 7mm crown is probably just right for the Nassau given the larger size overall relative even to 40mm Rolexes.


I thought the Nassau and Kingston were a littler smaller than the current or previous generation 40mm rolexes.

Great history details on the evolution of Rolex models. Thanks!


----------



## TheDude

BigHaole said:


> I thought the Nassau and Kingston were a littler smaller than the current or previous generation 40mm rolexes.
> 
> Great history details on the evolution of Rolex models. Thanks!


Well, the most recent models may be a bit wider, but the older ones seem to have less width and appear shorter to me than the Kingston case. It may just be an optical illusion.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

I have a 16750 with the 5.3mm crown, and it's not very handy to set with that tiny crown buried between the crown guards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheDude

nick_sixx said:


>


I think this is the crown that belongs on the Nassau. I really really wish it were available on it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

It has great lines! I wish the Kingston's crown had that great defined nose.


----------



## mrklabb

More momentum


----------



## Axelay2003

Let's not rush it folks. Waited this long to see the final. I just want this watch to be no less than perfect. Heck, I'll wait another 2 years....might as well.


----------



## BigHaole

The open 6s and 9s look beautiful! I love the way the font adjusts, like the original. I look forward to seeing those colors alternate!


----------



## TheDude

mrklabb said:


> More momentum


Gorgeous.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## eganwh

I really like the open 9's and 6's as well as the thickness of the font. Compare Bill's solid effort to this aftermarket ETA date dial I considered modding my Kingston with a couple years ago. Glad I did not make the swap.


----------



## Arthur

That is really nice!! It's a great DW. I love the thicker fonts and the open 6's and 9's, perfecto!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> The open 6s and 9s look beautiful! I love the way the font adjusts, like the original. I look forward to seeing those colors alternate!


First thing I looked for and I was floored. This is a great day.


----------



## Thieuster

Stunning, simply stunning!

Menno


----------



## Chromejob

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> _- I suppose you could have some custom super-long nylon straps made and wear 'em on your thighs....That might be a good plan for a pilot.-_


Maratac makes an extra long one, the Nitrox-17.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

A thought popped over my head the past few days...

It'd be great if the black & red bezel was instead a very light black and dark red. Why? Because it would then resemble an aged, vintage Pepsi bezel. Even though we all love the Coke, it wasn't officially on a Rolex until 1983. There may have been aftermarket Coke bezels people modded on their watches back then but not sure. I know Roger Moore supposedly had one in 1976/1977 but if so it must have been a mod. The vintage bezel would be accurate to it's history but still appeal to someone who wants it less flashy. I doubt Bill would offer a third bezel option so vintage-style makes more sense to me. I've seen several pictures but it was this one that made me realize what the Coke bezel really should be:










I can't wait until we finally see a white dial with the Gilt on it. From reading various threads, I've now come to the conclusion that the white dials never existed and was a story that formed years ago, perhaps accidentally from counterfeits. I realized that every picture I've seen of a white GMT Master does not have faded Gilt on it which makes me think they are all fakes. Produced in 1958/1959, every watch should have had Gilt and looked like these pictures. It'll be amazing to see Bill's work when it's done. The white dial is even classier IMO.


----------



## Arthur

One if the quickest ways to get a "visit to the principals office" on the forum is to start talking about MKII's financial model and business practices. In the past folks have been scolded and threads locked down or deleted because if these discussions. I would suggest that folks refrain from those type discussions here. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

Did we ever settle on a caseback design for the Key West?


----------



## Watchamacallit

BigHaole said:


> Did we ever settle on a caseback design for the Key West?


The PanAm logo was out of the question, so we decided on something vaguely reminiscent.


----------



## White Tuna

Yao said:


> We can address this issue after the design is done. To be honest though I think there may be enough demand for the watch with the black and white options that a brown dial may be moot.


Of course there will be enough demand for the black and white dials. I would argue there will be enough demand for the black dial alone. That does not make the white dial or cigar dial moot. As a matter of fact, based on several dreams I have had it makes them essential!!!


----------



## Thieuster

BigHaole said:


> Did we ever settle on a caseback design for the Key West?


This is what I wrote in November 2013:



> Re: Project GMT: Design threadHere's another idea for the case back.
> 
> I was thinking along the line of 'time', '24hr', 'long distance flying', time zones and 'meridians', when I realised that a LOXODROME or RHUMB LINE covers it all!
> Just look it up: Rhumb line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> And a nice graphic B&W loxodrome pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are nicer graphics on Google, but too large to post them here.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving to you guys (overhere in Holland, we don't have that holiday. A normal working day here)
> 
> Menno​


Menno


----------



## TheDude

I have no interest in a tropical dial, but this beauty recently popped up at a prominent vintage purveyor's site...

Interestingly, the nonstandard non-cyclops crystal (which could be ordered from Rolex) is pretty similar to how our watches will look. This isn't super uncommon since you replace the plexi on a vintage every time it's serviced so some guys decide to go this route until the next service.










Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

I think you're mistaking a deep navy blue for faded black. Black wouldnt fade to a blue hue IMHO.

As for the provenance of white dials, there's history and authentication to be found outside threads, in sources that are c9ncrned with Rolex history.

Forgive any misspellings, I'm typing with 1 hand in a sling post-arthroscopic surgery.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

No, that picture is indeed a faded blue, but in that light it looks black, doesn't it? I feel a faded-style bezel makes more sense than a new Coke one, thus light black or even better very dark blue but I think people want a black choice. No, black wouldn't fade to blue but grey I think?

I wish the white GMT was real but the more I read it seems to have been just a myth. Any good Rolex books I could read to get different information?

Good luck on your recovery! :-!


----------



## Chromejob

Devarika Woulf said:


> ... I can't wait until we finally see a white dial with the Gilt on it. From reading various threads, I've now come to the conclusion that the white dials never existed and was a story that formed years ago, perhaps accidentally from counterfeits. I realized that every picture I've seen of a white GMT Master does not have faded Gilt on it which makes me think they are all fakes. Produced in 1958/1959, every watch should have had Gilt and looked like these pictures. It'll be amazing to see Bill's work when it's done. The white dial is even classier IMO....


Revisiting.... I can't know what you've read that convinced you of this (above), but i find Stefano Mazzariol's blog entry authoritative and and convincing. I'm unsure of the *gilt-on-white* variant, but this is my ignorance on this variant, not comprehensive personal reserach ... so any references (followng Wikipedia;s RS standard, not forum opinions, anedcotes, legend, etc., pls) appreciated. Still undecided on my own tastes. The Kingston is so stunning, though, that I think the black dial is my ultimate fav.

-STEFANO MAZZARIOL BLOG-: Rolex GMT-MASTER ref .6542 ALBINO
see also: -STEFANO MAZZARIOL BLOG-: Rolex GMT-Master ref. 6542


----------



## Cleans Up

ah MKII forum, where I come to learn! As always I'm looking for updates on the pan-am and hope to hear from bill soon, by which I mean the next 6-9 months


----------



## eXis10z

Just got an email the pre-order will open soon.


----------



## JPMIA

So did I.
Came on Bill !!!! what happened to waiting list? why aren't you assigning watches to the waiting list first? as you said you would.
I've been waiting for 2 1/2 years to get my key west on order and now I have to fight every month to see if I can get it?

Came on!


----------



## STEELINOX

Giddyup Bill, thanks for the email !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mtbmike

Light at the end of the tunnel :-!


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Yao said:


> Our ability to built more Project GMT's is basically constrained by the supply of 2893s. Soprod has an alternative but it is expensive. So if we ever do a "general" release of this watch by default it will have to be more expensive than the Project GMT will be. The price of the Project GMT movements have already been fixed so there is no change there.


The pre-order was $1195. The general release is $1395, $200 more. I have no problem paying extra but just wondering why? I thought because those who pre-ordered initially got a discount but Bill says it's because of the movement. Did the price go up on 2893s or is the new batch using Soprods? Thanks.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Chromejob said:


> Revisiting.... I can't know what you've read that convinced you of this (above), but i find Stefano Mazzariol's blog entry authoritative and and convincing. I'm unsure of the *gilt-on-white* variant, but this is my ignorance on this variant, not comprehensive personal reserach ... so any references (followng Wikipedia;s RS standard, not forum opinions, anedcotes, legend, etc., pls) appreciated. Still undecided on my own tastes. The Kingston is so stunning, though, that I think the black dial is my ultimate fav.
> 
> -STEFANO MAZZARIOL BLOG-: Rolex GMT-MASTER ref .6542 ALBINO
> see also: -STEFANO MAZZARIOL BLOG-: Rolex GMT-Master ref. 6542


A poster here pointed me to some threads on the Rolex and Vintage Rolex forums that had some people seeing no proof due to the lack of ownership history and other things. It didn't appear to my eyes to be a real watch. Regardless, the "executive" story is really cool and a great reason to pick up a white dial anyway. As for which dial or bezel, I think it all depends on what color clothes you wear and what will match the best.

PS: In the second link, third picture, the PANAM has a white seconds hand. So cool they put them on the GMT Master too.


----------



## Dave Wallace

Well...if I sell all my other watches (not my Kingston, duh) I might be able to get this, anyone want to help? Just kidding....kind of...I love the white dial, can't wait to see these start showing up.


----------



## Arthur

All of the ETA movements are getting harder and harder to get. Swatch is cutting off all the small watchmakers. Had the authorities in Switzerland not stepped in, they would have completely stopped selling ETA movements several years ago, but time is running out, and at some point in the near future, the only ETA movements will be in Swatch group watches. Alternatives choices for GMT movements are pretty slim. Also because of Swatch cutting back, all of the alternative movement makers are running at full capacity.


Got my email as well,Thanks Bill, looks like progress is being made.


----------



## Arthur

Devarika Woulf said:


> A poster here pointed me to some threads on the Rolex and Vintage Rolex forums that had some people seeing no proof due to the lack of ownership history and other things. It didn't appear to my eyes to be a real watch. Regardless, the "executive" story is really cool and a great reason to pick up a white dial anyway. As for which dial or bezel, I think it all depends on what color clothes you wear and what will match the best.
> 
> PS: In the second link, third picture, the PANAM has a white seconds hand. So cool they put them on the GMT Master too.


Here is the problem, Rolex has never revealed information about their watches. In this I mean special editions, private label watches, even production numbers are not available. We do know that at the time that the White Dial 6542 was produced, Rolex was making a lot of private edition watches. Look at the Tiffany dials, Cartier dials, dials for various military entities, etc, and given the ongoing relationship that PanAm had with Rolex, it is certainly feasible that Rolex did produce a hundred or so white dial versions for PanAm. After all the 6542 GMT was designed by Rolex at the request of PanAm to give their pilots the capabilities to tell time in 2 time zones.
When PanAm closed, all of the records were given to the university of Miami. I just read a few days ago that most of the records, correspondence, etc has never been catalogued, so perhaps the answer to the question is filed away in a box somewhere within the PanAm archives. Some day, perhaps and enterprising soul with lots of free time and insatiable curiosity about PanAm and the white dial 6542's will undertake the task of sifting through all of the documents in order to put the question to rest one way or the other. Until then we can only speculate.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

Devarika Woulf said:


> The pre-order was $1195. The general release is $1395, $200 more. I have no problem paying extra but just wondering why? I thought because those who pre-ordered initially got a discount but Bill says it's because of the movement. Did the price go up on 2893s or is the new batch using Soprods? Thanks.


AFAIK plank owners generally pay less when there's a GO phase for a forum project (forum projects that are ONLY plank owner, i.e. completely limited, are a different situation). Plank owners pony up money well, well ahead of production and receipt, even before design is finalized (and therefore don't entirely know what they're buying -- so there's a requisite element of trust in the watchmaker and the other plank owners) ... in essence plank owners are "funding" the project.

Plank owners for the Kingston paid, what, US$700? and got lots of spare parts? Wow what a deal! -- except that there were YEARS between the payment and delivery. A legendary long wait. GO buyers paid a bit more and didn't get spare parts (points to self). I think the "markup" of the GO price also helps Mk II recoup some expenses and profit, and is therefore closer to a "real price," MSRP. The design phase is complete, and production has begun, demand is higher, and I think the maker is entitled to get closer to a marketplace price and voila! the entire project is not a loss.

There could be other issues that I'm not aware of. I realize I'm walking a fine line here with this discussion (feedback by PM welcome), but it's worth reiterating when anyone asks "why" as to the pricing.



Devarika Woulf said:


> A poster here pointed me to some threads on the Rolex and Vintage Rolex forums that had some people seeing no proof due to the lack of ownership history and other things. It didn't appear to my eyes to be a real watch. Regardless, the "executive" story is really cool and a great reason to pick up a white dial anyway. As for which dial or bezel, I think it all depends on what color clothes you wear and what will match the best.....


I'm always skeptical of "forum posts," even on "enthusiast" or "expert" forums, even when the author is a moderator or admin. I've seen sites where the owner/operators are dicks, where the poobahs do not have as much expertise as they would have others believe, and discussions don't always cite _reliable sources_ (as per the Wikipedia standard, linked here) for reference. Stefano's blog has a detailed examination of the example he had access to, and by careful examination of the dial printing, I believe he establishes that the printing is from the same template used for authentic 6542s, establishing that the dial was made by Rolex, not some third party.

So "threads on the Rolex ... forums that had some people seeing no proof due to lack of ownership..." is really missing the point IMHO. Stefano used careful examination and explanation of the manufacturing processes to make his case. I don't know when he published his article, maybe after those forums posts.

The post here you're sending me to has a quote in which YOU list the external forum discussions. No matter where you found them, I'm skeptical of them. Sometimes forum experts repeat apocrypha as fact, and thereby perpetuate a "story" that is convenient or comfortable.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Arthur said:


> Here is the problem, Rolex has never revealed information about their watches. ...


I would imagine by now someone who owned one or, at-least, the family of one of the 100 owners would have come online and showed the paperwork and history behind it. No one has...they all can't be that old-fashioned to not know about the internet and forums like this, no way. Maybe for a small number but not 100 so can't help not believing it without proof. Unless someone comes forward or those archives are read, we'll never know.


----------



## Chromejob

Sorry if I'm being contentious -- cabin fever and right arm in a sling are messing with my head, surely -- but _lack of some proof_ does not equal proof IMHO. I find examples of certificates and warranty cards for watches _sold_, but have no idea if the Pan Am issued ones carried official paperwork all the way into the wearer's hands. Are there examples?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Devarika Woulf said:


> I would imagine by now someone who owned one or, at-least, the family of one of the 100 owners would have come online and showed the paperwork and history behind it. No one has...they all can't be that old-fashioned to not know about the internet and forums like this, no way. Maybe for a small number but not 100 so can't help not believing it without proof. Unless someone comes forward or those archives are read, we'll never know.


Really....? Does it matter to you?

What is your point here?








If '*provenance'* is such a big deal for you, maybe you should go and hunt down one of the originals instead of being involved with this project??

For me, this Project (and it's inception and development) stands on its own, the design elements that appeal to me, appeal *on their own basis*, not on what is or may not be historically accurate...

Just my two cents. Most of this is just digging up ground that has been plowed before.

Please, Do your research and read the thread (and others about this Project) before you start re-hashing what has been already covered.

-Best-


----------



## Hoppyjr

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Really....? Does it matter to you?
> 
> What is your point here?
> View attachment 1666178
> 
> 
> If '*provenance'* is such a big deal for you, maybe you should go and hunt down one of the originals instead of being involved with thisproject??
> 
> For me, this Project (and it's inception and development) stands on its own, the design elements that appeal to me, appeal *on their own basis*, not on what is or may not be historically accurate...
> 
> Just my two cents. Most of this is just digging up ground that has been plowed before.
> 
> Please, Do your research and read the thread (and others about this Project) before you start re-hashing what has been already covered.
> 
> -Best-


I thought Watchuseek was all about showing respect to other members, but your post seems condescending and inappropriate. *Devarika Woulf *made a legitimate statement and it deserves a fair answer.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

For Hoppyjr...

:think:

-I see. And _You_ have *Never* posted an opinion here, have you? :-s

-Best-


----------



## jiminpotomac

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> For Hoppyjr...
> 
> :think:
> 
> -I see. And _You_ have *Never* posted an opinion here, have you? :-s
> 
> -Best-


Sir,

Perhaps it is time for you to step away from the keyboard for a few moments.

I know I've asked many questions and shared many opinions on this board over the years. A _little _longer than you. The key difference: I post my thoughts in a non-confrontational manner, never condescending.

I'm sure that Hoppyjr has also shared some opinions. However, his post to you was in regards to your demeaning and confrontational style of discourse.

Perhaps an apology is in order?


----------



## mrklabb

Devarika Woulf said:


> The pre-order was $1195. The general release is $1395, $200 more. I have no problem paying extra but just wondering why? I thought because those who pre-ordered initially got a discount but Bill says it's because of the movement. Did the price go up on 2893s or is the new batch using Soprods? Thanks.


I'm a bit surprised as well about the price. I assumed that would be the price when general ordering opened and not more pre orders. I suppose he sees the demand so why keep the price down. Ultimately, much like luxury watches the market will dictate prices.


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## Hoppyjr

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> For Hoppyjr...
> 
> :think:
> 
> -I see. And _You_ have *Never* posted an opinion here, have you? :-s
> 
> -Best-


Well, yes. I have shared my opinions and when others have felt offended I've been spanked by the moderators and piled on, especially in this particular forum. I've since edited myself to ensure compliance with the forum standards. I am hopeful the mods and other members will see your comments are inappropriate as I have.


----------



## Plat0

Project GMT!!!

Woooo!

/thread re-railed


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

No one has ever accused me of being a 'shrinking violet'.... I am not afraid to speak my mind.

However, some discipline is in order.

To all those that I have offended (and those I have not yet  --)

I apologize.

Now, and forever after,

Can we please keep this thread aligned along the title of the thread, which is *Project GMT: Design* ??

That was my original intent and purpose....


----------



## TheDude

Look, I don't have a dog in this fight, the white dial doesn't appeal to me at all and I don't care if it's a real watch from which the lore originated. I do however distinctly remember the presentation of conclusions regarding the legitimacy and existence of the Pan Am as authoritative (that it wasn't real). 

As I see it, the negative reactions weren't initially to an opinion but rather to a relatively authoritative statement about something that's still largely unanswered despite a fair amount of expert testimony in the vintage Rolex community. 

It's understandable that reactions would run hot and whoever presented these conclusions should have expected the responses to reflect that. 

Let's all make up, and in the spirit of harmony, I think the first step is recognizing and admitting that the original statement touched a nerve. Naturally, the subsequent behavior should be owned up to as well, but hey - this is the Internet so none of that will happen! LOL! 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

Devarika Woulf said:


> I would imagine by now someone who owned one or, at-least, the family of one of the 100 owners would have come online and showed the paperwork and history behind it. No one has...they all can't be that old-fashioned to not know about the internet and forums like this, no way. Maybe for a small number but not 100 so can't help not believing it without proof. Unless someone comes forward or those archives are read, we'll never know.


You may imagine this but I do not think that this would have to play out the way you imagine. First, if these were ever given out as gifts we have no idea, what if any paperwork was provided. Do you often give receipts with gifts? I do not.

Second we have no idea what, if any, paperwork that would have been kept and even then what if any would have survived.

For all we know there could be a complete Rolex Pan Am GMT with all the paperwork sitting in a basement or attic somewhere and we do not know. We cannot assume everyone is a watch fan.

I do not know if they were ever produced by Rolex, but I do know I love the ones I have seen and I want a watch close to that beautiful. I am with OmegaCosmicMan. *YOU* have to decide if *YOU* wish to have one or not. *I*have decided that *I* want one. I understand your concern and am not belittling it but I do not have your concerns and do not care for me personally.

I am sure you have to make decisions every day on purchases. I am not sure there is anything that anyone here can say that will affect your decision either way. Good luck.


----------



## White Tuna

jiminpotomac said:


> Sir,
> 
> Perhaps it is time for you to step away from the keyboard for a few moments.
> 
> I know I've asked many questions and shared many opinions on this board over the years. A _little _longer than you. The key difference: I post my thoughts in a non-confrontational manner, never condescending.
> 
> I'm sure that Hoppyjr has also shared some opinions. However, his post to you was in regards to your demeaning and confrontational style of discourse.
> 
> Perhaps an apology is in order?


How long a person has or has not been a member of an online bulletin board has no bearing on whether they have the right to voice their opinions or not. I think OmegaCosmicMan may have been a little over board but I understand his response since at the end of the day the poster has to make a personal opinion on what he wants to do. I think a person could take his stating that the original did not exist so that the MKII Key West is not worthy is a little condescending. Especially since this model is being offered in a black faced model which I am pretty sure did exist.

I am under no illusion that I am buying a Rolex. I am buying a MKII watch that should be of the same quality of my Kingston and look like I want it to look.


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> You may imagine this but I do not think that this would have to play out the way you imagine. First, if these were ever given out as gifts we have no idea, what if any paperwork was provided. Do you often give receipts with gifts? I do not.
> 
> Second we have no idea what, if any, paperwork that would have been kept and even then what if any would have survived.
> 
> For all we know there could be a complete Rolex Pan Am GMT with all the paperwork sitting in a basement or attic somewhere and we do not know. We cannot assume everyone is a watch fan.
> 
> I do not know if they were ever produced by Rolex, but I do know I love the ones I have seen and I want a watch close to that beautiful. I am with OmegaCosmicMan. *YOU* have to decide if *YOU* wish to have one or not. *I*have decided that *I* want one. I understand your concern and am not belittling it but I do not have your concerns and do not care for me personally.
> 
> I am sure you have to make decisions every day on purchases. I am not sure there is anything that anyone here can say that will affect your decision either way. Good luck.


Well, and let's not forget that the conscious act of retaining packaging was unheard of in the 1950s. Today we realize the value in it but back then it was a practice that people just didn't do. I know many old veterans who own these watches and are the only owner (they bought them new) yet I am not aware of any who can locate the packaging and papers.

There should be some service papers possibly, but again these could have been thrown away after the service warranty expired and no longer served any obvious purpose.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> Well, and let's not forget that the conscious act of retaining packaging was unheard of in the 1950s. Today we realize the value in it but back then it was a practice that people just didn't do. I know many old veterans who own these watches and are the only owner (they bought them new) yet I am not aware of any who can locate the packaging and papers.
> 
> There should be some service papers possibly, but again these could have been thrown away after the service warranty expired and no longer served any obvious purpose.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Who knew back then how much value it would add to the watch? What do we buy now that the paperwork will add value to in the future? OMG! Am I going to regret no keeping my paperwork for my beloved maxmadco pen?


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> Who knew back then how much value it would add to the watch? What do we buy now that the paperwork will add value to in the future? OMG! Am I going to regret no keeping my paperwork for my beloved maxmadco pen?


Exactly. Like action figures. I remember tearing open the Star Wars figures and throwing everything away as a kid. Heck, I ripped the head off my Obi Wan to mimick his loss in the light saber duel!

Now people buy two... One to keep in box and one to open.

It's funny though, that's the very reason that when you find all the stuff that it commands such high prices. It's an odd rarity to come across someone who did it then, yet today we know better.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## nick_sixx

White Tuna said:


> Who knew back then how much value it would add to the watch? What do we buy now that the paperwork will add value to in the future? OMG! Am I going to regret no keeping my paperwork for my beloved maxmadco pen?


On a side note, I got one of these the other day! It's an amazing piece of engineering


----------



## White Tuna

nick_sixx said:


> On a side note, I got one of these the other day! It's an amazing piece of engineering


I agree. And I learned about it here, on the MKII forum, and I am very happy with the purchase. You people are smart!


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## johanhej

What will be the essential difference between plank and The upcoming premier besides the 200 dollar price increase? An aluminium inlay and an additional bezel?


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## gnome666

Excuses asking, but I've tried to sift through the old thread and not sure if I found the answer; has there been a decision on the dial/bezel color? I've seen a lot about white vs black dial and black/red vs blue/red bezel. Will there be a choice between the two or will bill pick one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DEV.Woulf

It's all four choices, whatever you want:

Black/Pepsi
Black/Coke
White/Pepsi
White/Coke

Each of us can order up to two.


----------



## flying.fish

It would be really nice to have a sketch of options...
Cheers


----------



## TheDude

Devarika Woulf said:


> It's all four choices, whatever you want:
> 
> Black/Pepsi
> Black/Coke
> White/Pepsi
> White/Coke
> 
> Each of us can order up to two.


Coke is confirmed?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## JFingers

White Tuna said:


> Who knew back then how much value it would add to the watch? What do we buy now that the paperwork will add value to in the future? OMG! Am I going to regret no keeping my paperwork for my beloved maxmadco pen?


Since you don't have the box and papers for your maxmadco pen, it's essentially worthless. I'll send you money for S&H and you can offload that worthless thing to me to use... er... dispose of. 

Blue skies, yall, and can we please get back to drooling over bad-ass watches again? Please and thank you.
-only jake


----------



## JFingers

TheDude said:


> Coke is confirmed?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I am unsure about that... I'm not sure if dial color OR bezel colors have been confirmed. Again, I don't have any money down on this (YET!), but I have been following it for a few years and I can't wait to find out more.

I could be wrong, just ask my wife.
-only jake


----------



## DEV.Woulf

TheDude said:


> Coke is confirmed?


I thought it was:



Thieuster said:


> Another question: will the black dialed version come as a 'Coke' version and the white dialed as a 'Pepsi'? Or...





Yao said:


> Since the bezel is a separate part we can put whichever combination one would want. It doesn't have to be as pictured here. I just did that because I thought 8 versions might start to get a little confusing. But certainly you can do any combination of the bezel and the dial as desired.


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## JFingers

Devarika Woulf said:


> I thought it was:


I stand corrected. 
My bad, yo!


----------



## TheDude

Devarika Woulf said:


> I thought it was:


Cool. I think I didn't scrutinized those pictures enough to realize that the black dials had coke bezels.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

The question about dial color actually sent me off looking for examples of 6542s with original paperwork. There have been one or two ... check Christies' auctions, a few other brokers. Some have both the warranty card (case #/movement #), and the certification sheet (a full size page detail all the exhaustive testing done, one I think indiated daily testing for 2-3 weeks - wow). Guess what ... none of those I've found detailed the _dial color_. So I have no idea what _paperwork_ would establish.


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## White Tuna

Devarika Woulf said:


> I thought it was:


Good info. I did not know this and appreciate the info.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Wow...I think my post was misinterpreted. I was just giving a reply to Arthur. :think:



Chromejob said:


> Sorry if I'm being contentious -- cabin fever and right arm in a sling are messing with my head, surely -- but _lack of some proof_ does not equal proof IMHO. I find examples of certificates and warranty cards for watches _sold_, but have no idea if the Pan Am issued ones carried official paperwork all the way into the wearer's hands. Are there examples?


I wonder about that too. It's possible that when Rolex issued the watches to the Pan Am crew they kept the paperwork. Anyone know more?



White Tuna said:


> You may imagine this but I do not think that this would have to play out the way you imagine. First, if these were ever given out as gifts we have no idea, what if any paperwork was provided. Do you often give receipts with gifts? I do not.
> Second we have no idea what, if any, paperwork that would have been kept and even then what if any would have survived.
> For all we know there could be a complete Rolex Pan Am GMT with all the paperwork sitting in a basement or attic somewhere and we do not know. We cannot assume everyone is a watch fan.


It's possible. I just find it odd that not one has shown up with a real history. It really is an enigma, something that can't be proven or disproved as of yet. I wish it were real, though.



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Really....? Does it matter to you? What is your point here?
> If '*provenance'* is such a big deal for you, maybe you should go and hunt down one of the originals instead of being involved with this project??
> For me, this Project (and it's inception and development) stands on its own, the design elements that appeal to me, appeal *on their own basis*, not on what is or may not be historically accurate...
> Please, Do your research and read the thread (and others about this Project) before you start re-hashing what has been already covered.


Well, my original point was that I like the white dial but I don't think it really existed, nothing more than that. Because I don't think it existed, I think this will be the first time we see a white/gilt dial (Were there others?). I wish the story were true but I don't see the proof, yet. It's just my opinion and I was agreeing with Arthur. I can't buy an original as I don't think they exist. Luckily, Bill's project does exist and as I said before, I think the white dial is even classier. If it wasn't an option back then, it should have been and it's great that it is now. I think you saw more to my post than what I meant. It was just a conversation. I was giving my opinion on the subject which I've never done before so I've rehashed nothing.



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> No one has ever accused me of being a 'shrinking violet'.... I am not afraid to speak my mind.
> However, some discipline is in order.
> Can we please keep this thread aligned along the title of the thread, which is *Project GMT: Design* ??
> That was my original intent and purpose....


We can stick to the main topic just fine if you prefer but between the post to me and your post to _jiminpotomac_, you seem to have a stick up your butt today. Chill out, man. :rodekaart



White Tuna said:


> I do not know if they were ever produced by Rolex, but I do know I love the ones I have seen and I want a watch close to that beautiful. I am with OmegaCosmicMan. *YOU* have to decide if *YOU* wish to have one or not. *I*have decided that *I* want one. I understand your concern and am not belittling it but I do not have your concerns and do not care for me personally.
> I am sure you have to make decisions every day on purchases. I am not sure there is anything that anyone here can say that will affect your decision either way. Good luck.


Yes, I am basing my purchase more so on what will work best with my wardrobe rather than history, but knowing the real history is important to me. You're a kind person! Thanks.



White Tuna said:


> I think a person could take his stating that the original did not exist so that the MKII Key West is not worthy is a little condescending.


That's not what I meant. I was just stating my feelings on history. The black/pepsi Key West is the true homage here but I think the other three combinations are cool homages to Rolex-lore. It's great they exist because the white dial is really classy and the coke bezel is more subtle. Variety, as you know, is the spice of Watchuseek. :-!

|>


----------



## White Tuna

johanhej said:


> What will be the essential difference between plank and The upcoming premier besides the 200 dollar price increase? An aluminium inlay and an additional bezel?


The General Orders will not have anything that the plank kit does not. The Plank orders may be getting an extra Bezel IIRC and I just found out through the email that the last 100 GO's will not have a special case back.

To put it in perspective my Kingston GO cost $984.95 for NATO strap, shipping and 6 position regulation without the option to purchase the parts kit.

Later Bill opened up the last ~10 Kingston's for sale and I picked one up. BGW9 seemed to be the only option. The cost with the NATO strap, shipping and 6 position regulation came to $1089.95 without any spare parts kit for this watch.

Those who were lucky enough to be in on the Plank got everything I got but also received the plank kit and the option to pick their SN depending on if it was still available. I knew the deal and still know the deal and I am not complaining. I see no problem with the pricing and I think people who hem and haw on the Key West PO and miss it will be hemming and hawing for years about missing it.

I am sure from what I have been reading that these will sell rather quickly so I would urge anyone who has a problem with the business model, the wait or historical accuracy to wait for something that better fits their lifestyle.


----------



## Arthur

Chromejob said:


> Sorry if I'm being contentious -- cabin fever and right arm in a sling are messing with my head, surely -- but _lack of some proof_ does not equal proof IMHO. I find examples of certificates and warranty cards for watches _sold_, but have no idea if the Pan Am issued ones carried official paperwork all the way into the wearer's hands. Are there examples?


According to the articles that I have read, the black dial watches were issued to the flight crews, pilot, co-pilot and navigator. From what was stated, these watches were given to the crew, not assigned to them, so the watch became the possession of the crew member. There was no mention about Chronometer certificates, boxes, accessories, etc. Rolex could very well have sent all the paperwork and the boxed watches to PanAm, and when issued the company kept all the paperwork. We don't know if this was the case or not. 
Although there were evidently quite a lot of 6542's sold to PanAm, (according to thePanAm story that I read, PanAm had over 300 planes in use, so considering three crew members per flight, and lots more crew than planes that would be a lot of watches). I have only seen two sold at auction, and they both had other memorabilia linking them to the owners, retired PanAm officers, neither of them had any official Rolex certificates as part of the sale offering. 
What I know, is that while we and other watch enthusiasts are obsessed with watches, very few others share this feeling. I'm almost 71 years old, so I grew up in the era when these watches were in use. The vast majority of folks back then had one or at most two watches. They were not interested in them as "objects" like we treat them, they were tools, to be used and in many cases abused. Not on purpose necessarily, but because they were worn every day, and were subjected to the rigors of daily wear. There is a very good chance that if a white dial 6542 went back to Rolex say 5-10 years out, the dial was replaced with a black service dial, as there were no white dials In stock. Same was true of the Bakelite inserts, they were all changed out by Rolex, primarily because of the radiation levels of the radium. The ones that survived, did so because they were not sent back to a RSC, but were probably serviced locally and the inserts were not changed. Today, owners of vintage Rolex watches are very careful about preserving them in as close to the original state as possible. Back in the 60's and 70's most owners were very happy when they sent their watch back to Rolex and it came back with a new dial, hands, crystal and crown in "like new" condition. I know this is off the subject, but I just wanted to state the viewpoint that many, many Rolex watches haven't survived, and most that have are without paperwork, boxes, etc.as that wasn't deemed very important back then. 
AFA the controversy over the White dial 6542's it will all remain speculation and conjecture, until such time that something surfaces that will either prove their legitimacy or disprove it. We will see, or maybe we won't!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

Never mind, I give up, throwing in the towel. "Exit, stage left."

Explanation: I read a Homerian epic thread or two of 6542 "experts" c*ck jousting over who was right, over which reference book or online post was credible, with more than one participant demonstrating ownership of several early 6542s, as if that really proves anything. Clearly there's heated dispute about even credible publications (e.g. published Rolex history books by well known experts). There seems to be no proof that Rolex shipped 6542s with a white dial; and there's no proof that they didn't. There seems to be no proof that someone didn't substitute a white dial for black without changing anything else (with one white dial being a perfect match defect-for-defect for a black dial, which itself may or may not have come from Rolex). We're going to need a first person account of Pan Am receiving new, white dial 6542s directly from a Rolex agent.


----------



## gnome666

Not to add gasoline, but what's the big deal? As far as I know MKII never claims to be historically accurate. The watches merely incorporate design Elements of vintage watches that many of us here love but would never be able to afford in our lifetimes. They are not marketed as, nor meant to be, exact replicas of watches that definitely existed. Perfect example is the 369 Nassau. It's not exactly like any watch in particular, but it takes elements like the 369 dial, the no crown guard case, Mercedes hands, etc that make the old designs look so great and packages them into a unique creation.

With that said, if you like how the GMT watch design turns out buy it. If not, don't. Just remeber it's not meant to be a 1:1 copy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## johanhej

White Tuna said:


> The General Orders will not have anything that the plank kit does not. The Plank orders may be getting an extra Bezel IIRC and I just found out through the email that the last 100 GO's will not have a special case back.
> 
> To put it in perspective my Kingston GO cost $984.95 for NATO strap, shipping and 6 position regulation without the option to purchase the parts kit.
> 
> Later Bill opened up the last ~10 Kingston's for sale and I picked one up. BGW9 seemed to be the only option. The cost with the NATO strap, shipping and 6 position regulation came to $1089.95 without any spare parts kit for this watch.
> 
> Those who were lucky enough to be in on the Plank got everything I got but also received the plank kit and the option to pick their SN depending on if it was still available. I knew the deal and still know the deal and I am not complaining. I see no problem with the pricing and I think people who hem and haw on the Key West PO and miss it will be hemming and hawing for years about missing it.
> 
> I am sure from what I have been reading that these will sell rather quickly so I would urge anyone who has a problem with the business model, the wait or historical accuracy to wait for something that better fits their lifestyle.


Sorry I realize I was a little unclear. I know the 2nd preorder will not be as beneficial as the plank kit. I also have a Kingston plank and I recall there being a huge difference between plank and second preorder.

What I'm wondering is, what more will plank owners get than the ones fetching one of the first 100 from this preorder?


----------



## White Tuna

johanhej said:


> Sorry I realize I was a little unclear. I know the 2nd preorder will not be as beneficial as the plank kit. I also have a Kingston plank and I recall there being a huge difference between plank and second preorder.
> 
> What I'm wondering is, what more will plank owners get than the ones fetching one of the first 100 from this preorder?


Do not take this as gospel as I am working from memory but I think it will just be a spare bezel. IIRC Bill has stated this. It is in no way like the generous plank kit of the mighty Kingston.


----------



## White Tuna

Devarika Woulf said:


> Yes, I am basing my purchase more so on what will work best with my wardrobe rather than history, but knowing the real history is important to me. You're a kind person! Thanks.
> 
> That's not what I meant. I was just stating my feelings on history. The black/pepsi Key West is the true homage here but I think the other three combinations are cool homages to Rolex-lore. It's great they exist because the white dial is really classy and the coke bezel is more subtle. Variety, as you know, is the spice of Watchuseek. :-!
> 
> |>


I also am going to purchase what I think looks best and works with my wardrobe. I know the Kingston's size is very workable so this is another reason I am interested in the Key West.

I know I have been short with you and I am sorry. But this is the DESIGN thread. I, like you, am interested in the history of the Pan Am GMT. I wonder if the white dial was ever actually produced by Rolex for Pan Am execs. But we may never know. The absence of paperwork proves nothing, just as the absence of the company today does not prove it never existed. Saying you find it odd that no paperwork has been found is very Ancient Alienish and gets under my skin. First it proves nothing that no paperwork has been found and second you have no idea that no paperwork has been found. Someone could be sitting on a huge stash of paperwork for white dialed Pan Am GMT's and not have shared it for a variety of reasons. I would welcome any proof you have to offer either way. But speculation presented as pseudo fact is tiring. I personally am interested in what the MKII Key West can do for me rather than some watch I will never see in person.

I wish you luck and I suggest you buy one because I think you will enjoy it.


----------



## TheDude

Arthur said:


> According to the articles that I have read, the black dial watches were issued to the flight crews, pilot, co-pilot and navigator. From what was stated, these watches were given to the crew, not assigned to them, so the watch became the possession of the crew member. There was no mention about Chronometer certificates, boxes, accessories, etc. Rolex could very well have sent all the paperwork and the boxed watches to PanAm, and when issued the company kept all the paperwork. We don't know if this was the case or not.
> Although there were evidently quite a lot of 6542's sold to PanAm, (according to thePanAm story that I read, PanAm had over 300 planes in use, so considering three crew members per flight, and lots more crew than planes that would be a lot of watches). I have only seen two sold at auction, and they both had other memorabilia linking them to the owners, retired PanAm officers, neither of them had any official Rolex certificates as part of the sale offering.
> What I know, is that while we and other watch enthusiasts are obsessed with watches, very few others share this feeling. I'm almost 71 years old, so I grew up in the era when these watches were in use. The vast majority of folks back then had one or at most two watches. They were not interested in them as "objects" like we treat them, they were tools, to be used and in many cases abused. Not on purpose necessarily, but because they were worn every day, and were subjected to the rigors of daily wear. There is a very good chance that if a white dial 6542 went back to Rolex say 5-10 years out, the dial was replaced with a black service dial, as there were no white dials In stock. Same was true of the Bakelite inserts, they were all changed out by Rolex, primarily because of the radiation levels of the radium. The ones that survived, did so because they were not sent back to a RSC, but were probably serviced locally and the inserts were not changed. Today, owners of vintage Rolex watches are very careful about preserving them in as close to the original state as possible. Back in the 60's and 70's most owners were very happy when they sent their watch back to Rolex and it came back with a new dial, hands, crystal and crown in "like new" condition. I know this is off the subject, but I just wanted to state the viewpoint that many, many Rolex watches haven't survived, and most that have are without paperwork, boxes, etc.as that wasn't deemed very important back then.
> AFA the controversy over the White dial 6542's it will all remain speculation and conjecture, until such time that something surfaces that will either prove their legitimacy or disprove it. We will see, or maybe we won't!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The gentleman who I knew (he has passed) who was the first and only owner of his 6542 (and a Navy pilot and officer), said that it was the -dial- that was swapped due to radiation levels. He still had his bakelite but the watch had a replacement matte dial.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

gnome666 said:


> ...Perfect example is the 369 Nassau. It's not exactly like any watch in particular, but it takes elements like the 369 dial, the no crown guard case, Mercedes hands, etc that make the old designs look so great and packages them into a unique creation....


Actually there is. I found multiple references that indicate that at least some 6538As were shipped with a red pip, minute indices, and a 3-6-9 dial. One 6538 variation had a white sweep seconds hand. That's why I jumped at it. It's a lovely companion to my Kingston.


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## White Tuna

JPMIA said:


> So did I.
> Came on Bill !!!! what happened to waiting list? why aren't you assigning watches to the waiting list first? as you said you would.
> I've been waiting for 2 1/2 years to get my key west on order and now I have to fight every month to see if I can get it?
> 
> Came on!


JPMIA I came across this post which may be of interest to you (WUS):

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-design-thread-745194-63.html#post7118559

I know it probably is not the answer you wanted but it will hopefully make this clearer.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Chromejob said:


> The question about dial color actually sent me off looking for examples of 6542s with original paperwork. There have been one or two ... check Christies' auctions, a few other brokers. Some have both the warranty card (case #/movement #), and the certification sheet (a full size page detail all the exhaustive testing done, one I think indiated daily testing for 2-3 weeks - wow). Guess what ... none of those I've found detailed the dial color. So I have no idea what paperwork would establish.


Thanks for looking and that's great they tested it so much. I thought paperwork because there seems to be no history of ownership to the pictures we see on Rolex sites. One or the other would be nice. As for the paper not stating the dial color, perhaps you would have to match some sort of manufacture or serial number on the paper to the watch, but only Rolex or Pan Am would know what they meant.



Arthur said:


> According to the articles that I have read, the black dial watches were issued to the flight crews, pilot, co-pilot and navigator. From what was stated, these watches were given to the crew, not assigned to them, so the watch became the possession of the crew member. There was no mention about Chronometer certificates, boxes, accessories, etc. Rolex could very well have sent all the paperwork and the boxed watches to PanAm, and when issued the company kept all the paperwork. We don't know if this was the case or not....


I really appreciate your knowledge. Yeah, they may have just given the watches and kept the packaging. That's a great viewpoint on keeping valuables as there was a very different view on collectible items back then. It just irks me that they existed yet no one has inside information. Perhaps you are right and that stuff just got lost in time with trash, repairs, sales, and so on. It happens to everyone. Growing up in the 90s, I had action figures and video games but I broke things and sold 'em for cheap. If I would have kept that stuff in good condition and with all the boxes I could have made quite a bit of money today. That was the last thought on my mind back then, though.



Chromejob said:


> Never mind, I give up, throwing in the towel. "Exit, stage left."
> Explanation: I read a Homerian epic thread or two of 6542 "experts" c*ck jousting over who was right, over which reference book or online post was credible, with more than one participant demonstrating ownership of several early 6542s, as if that really proves anything. Clearly there's heated dispute about even credible publications (e.g. published Rolex history books by well known experts). There seems to be no proof that Rolex shipped 6542s with a white dial; and there's no proof that they didn't. There seems to be no proof that someone didn't substitute a white dial for black without changing anything else (with one white dial being a perfect match defect-for-defect for a black dial, which itself may or may not have come from Rolex). We're going to need a first person account of Pan Am receiving new, white dial 6542s directly from a Rolex agent.


Thanks. It will drive you bonkers thinking about it, won't it? This is the way Rolex wants it, though. They do not want to discuss it and we must respect their decisions. If I ever get famous with my music and start wearing Rolex like Brad Pitt, I'll see if I can get chummy-chummy with them and get some answers. Expect the truth in 15 years or so.



gnome666 said:


> Not to add gasoline, but what's the big deal? As far as I know MKII never claims to be historically accurate.


I'm not sure. My opinion on the real thing turned into something else. The Key West though is very accurate to what we know, or think we know about the white Pan Am.



White Tuna said:


> I know I have been short with you and I am sorry. But this is the DESIGN thread. I, like you, am interested in the history of the Pan Am GMT. I wonder if the white dial was ever actually produced by Rolex for Pan Am execs. But we may never know. The absence of paperwork proves nothing, just as the absence of the company today does not prove it never existed. Saying you find it odd that no paperwork has been found is very Ancient Alienish and gets under my skin. First it proves nothing that no paperwork has been found and second you have no idea that no paperwork has been found. Someone could be sitting on a huge stash of paperwork for white dialed Pan Am GMT's and not have shared it for a variety of reasons. I would welcome any proof you have to offer either way. But speculation presented as pseudo fact is tiring. I personally am interested in what the MKII Key West can do for me rather than some watch I will never see in person.
> I wish you luck and I suggest you buy one because I think you will enjoy it.


Well, from your perspective perhaps they are private of any official documentation on the subject. I didn't think that's something that would need hiding because there is so much information about the black dial out there already. It's the real lack of any true insider knowledge that gets me but you're right, I'm just speculating and I don't know other than what I've read so I'll leave it at that. I am gonna buy a Key West for sure because I kick myself for missing out on the Kingston (I wasn't buying watches then). I am a James Bond fanatic, and from there I turned into a Rolex fanatic and I also love the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Because it's a pretty accurate homage, I just know when I glance down at it I'm gonna marvel a bit at the history of watches in the late 50s, so that's what led to me wondering whether the white dial was real or not, nothing serious.


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## DEV.Woulf

Chromejob said:


> Actually there is. I found multiple references that indicate that at least some 6538As were shipped with a red pip, minute indices, and a 3-6-9 dial. One 6538 variation had a white sweep seconds hand. That's why I jumped at it. It's a lovely companion to my Kingston.











The only difference is the Submariners had a gilt dial but otherwise the Nassau is pretty accurate.


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## White Tuna

Devarika Woulf, even if the white dialed Pan Am GMT is real the MKII Key West with the white dial will not be accurate to that watch. The white dial Key West is going to have gilt indices and look similar to this:


----------



## BigHaole

I was not a part of the Kingston launch. Will we get a chance to see samples of the watch faces, before we have to choose?


----------



## Chromejob

Devarika Woulf said:


> Thanks for looking and that's great they tested it so much. I thought paperwork because there seems to be no history of ownership to the pictures we see on Rolex sites. One or the other would be nice. As for the paper not stating the dial color, perhaps you would have to match some sort of manufacture or serial number on the paper to the watch, but only Rolex or Pan Am would know what they meant....


Actually there is matching paperwork. Google for images for "auction rolex 6542" and zero in on some from Christies,others. The COSC paperwork, I think, has the case # and movement #. Some warranty cards (assuring "this watch has been inspected and tested and found to be in perfect working order" or some such) have the case #, but I saw some auctions with blank warranty card, which seems silly.

Rolex. A rare stainless steel automatic dual time wristwatch with sweep centre seconds, date, bracelet, bakelite bezel, brown-coloured dial, original bulletin de marche and box | SIGNED ROLEX, OYSTER PERPETUAL, GMT-MASTER, REF. 6542, CASE NO. 428'942

Rolex Rare Ref. 6542 Oyster Perpetual GMT-Master, Bakelite Bezel, | LotID #52001 | Heritage Auctions








Provided for discussion and education purposes.

I don't recall if all 6538 and 6200 dials were printed with the galvanic method (gilt), but since the Nassau 3-6-9 is (then sandblasted to a sort of white), it's _kinda_ accurate. 



BigHaole said:


> I was not a part of the Kingston launch. Will we get a chance to see samples of the watch faces, before we have to choose?


Go back in this thread to about November 2013, Bill posted v1.1 and v1.2 sample illustration for the bezel,the dial design is there.

I don't recall if we determined the blue on the Pepsi dial would be deep blue and deep red, not the later 1675 cadet blue and signal red?


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## TheDude

Devarika Woulf said:


> View attachment 1677498
> 
> 
> The only difference is the Submariners had a gilt dial but otherwise the Nassau is pretty accurate.


Well, and the Nassau and 369 have a modern style crown. It would either need to be big, or small like the Key West to be period accurate.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## DEV.Woulf

White Tuna said:


> Devarika Woulf, even if the white dialed Pan Am GMT is real the MKII Key West with the white dial will not be accurate to that watch. The white dial Key West is going to have gilt indices and look similar to this:


You've lost me, Tuna. Isn't it thought that the white Pan Am was a gilt dial just like the black dial? According to a Rolex book, Vintage Rolex Sports Models (which Chromejob just used a picture from), it was gilt and looked very similar to that watch Bill's wife is wearing, minus the bezel. I'm confused. :-s












Chromejob said:


> Actually there is matching paperwork. Google for images for "auction rolex 6542" and zero in on some from Christies,others. The COSC paperwork, I think, has the case # and movement #. Some warranty cards (assuring "this watch has been inspected and tested and found to be in perfect working order" or some such) have the case #, but I saw some auctions with blank warranty card, which seems silly.


Good information. We can't do nothing with a case number though unless we're able to match it up through Rolex. I'm saving myself any headaches and am giving up. Just looking forward to the Key West now. Still, I wonder if any watch nut will ever look through those Pan Am archives one day. If I was ever there I would take a glance but it'd probably be like finding a needle in a haystack.

That first link appears to have one of those special-order dials without the cyclops-date. I thought the Key West not doing the cyclops was inaccurate but also good because I don't care much for it but apparently you could get dials like that so _it is_ accurate. Finding that out blew my mind.



Chromejob said:


> I don't recall if all 6538 and 6200 dials were printed with the galvanic method (gilt), but since the Nassau 3-6-9 is (then sandblasted to a sort of white), it's kinda accurate.
> 
> I don't recall if we determined the blue on the Pepsi dial would be deep blue and deep red, not the later 1675 cadet blue and signal red?


From what I've read and seen all watches prior to 1965 used gold/silver gilt though some may have been gilt/matte.

A post on the Rolex forums says that, according to an article by James Dowling called The Original Plastic Insert Mystery (which is no longer available to read for some reason), when Rolex switched from bakelite bezels to metal bezels in 1956, they switched the blue to a bright blue to differentiate between the old watches with issues and the new, problem-free ones. I'm not sure if this is true or not. Though Bill could pick whatever tone he wants, and I myself think I prefer the darker blue, my gut feeling says - if that article is correct - he should use the 1956 brighter blue since that's the version the Key West is being based on. That's just me being nit-picky, though, 'cause I feel if you're gonna go through all that to be accurate thus far, you may as well go all the way. As for reds, again use whatever tone was used in 1956. |>



TheDude said:


> Well, and the Nassau and 369 have a modern style crown. It would either need to be big, or small like the Key West to be period accurate.


Oh yeah, I didn't even notice that awesome fat crown was different. Another reason to appreciate the Key West with it's accuracy. |>


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## d88

Hi guys, firstly apologies if I've overlooked this info in an obvious place, (I have checked back this thread and Bill's own info) , but can someone state if a decision was reached on the confirmed dial colour for the Key West project? 

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## cpotters

OK kids....you all drive me crazy with all of these "how many angels can stand on the head of a pin" arguements about the GMT designs. You'll buy it because you'll like it.

But, as a matter of record, you've got to know where to look for the odd stuff. Here is an example of a GMT that you all have probably never seen before. It sold a year ago at Christie's in Geneva for about $233,000. Do you think that the buyers bought it on a whim, or did they do their homework before dropping that amount of change?

Rolex. A very rare and attractive 18K gold automatic dual time wristwatch with champagne dial, sweep centre seconds, date, bakelite bezel and bracelet | SIGNED ROLEX, OYSTER-PERPETUAL, GMT-MASTER, REF. 6542, CASE NO. 486'446, MANUFACTURED IN 1959 | W

The funny think is, I had a link on my computer for a long time to another auction for a crusty old white-dialed GMT that came from one owner, with the original box and papers, but now I can't find it... if I do I'll certainly put it up here. The funny thing is that there IS a person who probably knows the whole story.... THIS IS THE PERSON. Her name is Kathleen Claire, and she was Juan Trippe's executive secretary at Pan Am. She could settle this question of the executive GMTs once and for all, because she would have been in the thick of it, since Juan Trippe would have asked HER to send the memos out to management to return the pilot's watches AND she would have been responsible for distributing the white-dialed versions to management... (if she's still alive, she was earlier this year) Community Celebrations

I'm to lazy to follow up, but perhaps one of you who is filled with moth piss-n-vinegar than I am wants a little project to go find a nice little old lady with cool stories to tell. OK....I dropped the breadcrumb: one of you ther birds can go pick it up.....


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## JFingers

d88 said:


> ... can someone state if a decision was reached on the confirmed dial colour for the Key West project?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


Black or white, both with gilt.



cpotters said:


> OK kids....you all drive me crazy with all of these "how many angels can stand on the head of a pin" arguements about the GMT designs.


The answer is 300 GMT angels. And hopefully one of them fits on my wrist. Preferably a white dialed Pepsi bezel, though I wouldn't kick the black Pepsi out of bed for eating crackers, either.

Blue skies, y'all! 
-only Jake


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## White Tuna

Devarika Woulf said:


> You've lost me, Tuna. Isn't it thought that the white Pan Am was a gilt dial just like the black dial? According to a Rolex book, Vintage Rolex Sports Models (which Chromejob just used a picture from), it was gilt and looked very similar to that watch Bill's wife is wearing, minus the bezel. I'm confused. :-s


I have never seen that picture before and really I do not think you can for certain tell if it is a gilt dial or not in that picture.

This is more in line with what I have seen:









From here:

-STEFANO MAZZARIOL BLOG-: Rolex GMT-MASTER ref .6542 ALBINO


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## Arthur

cpotters said:


> OK kids....you all drive me crazy with all of these "how many angels can stand on the head of a pin" arguements about the GMT designs. You'll buy it because you'll like it.
> 
> But, as a matter of record, you've got to know where to look for the odd stuff. Here is an example of a GMT that you all have probably never seen before. It sold a year ago at Christie's in Geneva for about $233,000. Do you think that the buyers bought it on a whim, or did they do their homework before dropping that amount of change?
> 
> Rolex. A very rare and attractive 18K gold automatic dual time wristwatch with champagne dial, sweep centre seconds, date, bakelite bezel and bracelet | SIGNED ROLEX, OYSTER-PERPETUAL, GMT-MASTER, REF. 6542, CASE NO. 486'446, MANUFACTURED IN 1959 | W
> 
> The funny think is, I had a link on my computer for a long time to another auction for a crusty old white-dialed GMT that came from one owner, with the original box and papers, but now I can't find it... if I do I'll certainly put it up here. The funny thing is that there IS a person who probably knows the whole story.... THIS IS THE PERSON. Her name is Kathleen Claire, and she was Juan Trippe's executive secretary at Pan Am. She could settle this question of the executive GMTs once and for all, because she would have been in the thick of it, since Juan Trippe would have asked HER to send the memos out to management to return the pilot's watches AND she would have been responsible for distributing the white-dialed versions to management... (if she's still alive, she was earlier this year) Community Celebrations
> 
> I'm to lazy to follow up, but perhaps one of you who is filled with moth piss-n-vinegar than I am wants a little project to go find a nice little old lady with cool stories to tell. OK....I dropped the breadcrumb: one of you ther birds can go pick it up.....


Charlie, 
Thanks for the links. The gold 6542 with the "nipple" dial and root beer insert was a production version. There have been a few of those show up over the years. I suspect that the 18k gold model was not produced in great numbers, as it was significantly more expensive than the S/S versions. Also, what some folks may be losing sight of is the Black dial 6542 was a production watch as well, and not just a special edition sold to PanAm. It was in production until 1959 when it was replaced with the 1675. Who knows how many were produced between 1954 and 1959, as we well know, Rolex never releases production numbers.

I agree with you, all the arguments about minutiae related to the 6542's are great conversation topics, but in the end, folks will either buy the "Key West" or they will pass on it based not so much on whether or not it is copy of the 6542, but whether or not it resonates with them. I will buy one and wear it, not to try to pass off as a rare bird like the 6542, but as a watch that was manufactured with modern materials and a modern movement, that is a homage to a wonderful Rolex watch that shared a place in the history of American aviation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## gnome666

Shows how much I know. But that kinda proves my point. I loved the watch even though I thought it wasnt historically accurate. The fact that it might be is just a bonus.



Chromejob said:


> Actually there is. I found multiple references that indicate that at least some 6538As were shipped with a red pip, minute indices, and a 3-6-9 dial. One 6538 variation had a white sweep seconds hand. That's why I jumped at it. It's a lovely companion to my Kingston.


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## gshock626

I notice the specs say BGW9 or C3. Does that mean we get to choose the lume or does it mean Bill has not decided which one to use?


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## White Tuna

gshock626 said:


> I notice the specs say BGW9 or C3. Does that mean we get to choose the lume or does it mean Bill has not decided which one to use?


I do not think choosing will be an option. It will either be one or the other. I do not think that anything has been stated yet to let us know which it will be.

Personally I believe they will all be BGW9 and am operating under that assumption. I prefer C3 and would have certainly welcomed it for some contrast on the white dials.


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## gshock626

Thanks. I prefer C3 as well, but am completely fine with BGW9.


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## DEV.Woulf

White Tuna said:


> I have never seen that picture before and really I do not think you can for certain tell if it is a gilt dial or not in that picture.
> 
> This is more in line with what I have seen:


It looks like gilt to me. Look at the hands, they match the black dial. Of course it's just a computer graphic from the 80s and some of the information in the book is obsolete.

That white Pan Am in the picture was one I thought may be fake because it doesn't have a gilt dial. I have not seen any picture that seems to show one with faded gilt like you see on so many of the black dials which led to be thinking the white dial didn't exist (counterfeits are easier to product without gilt). But what if the white Pan Am didn't actually have gilt at all on it?

I believe all the black dialed Explorers, Submariners, and GMT-Masters of the 1950s used gold or silver gilt. Would Rolex have had a problem applying the same technique to a white dial? If all those pictures on the internet are indeed real white Pan Ams, then I guess they _didn't_ use it. I am glad Bill is using it now though because it should have been used back then. It really brings out the classiness of the white even more so and puts it right in line with the black dial, and I agree with him that black is ugly on a classy white watch. If Rolex did use black back then, I assume they had to because of limitations and not because it was a design choice. :think:


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## White Tuna

Devarika Woulf said:


> It looks like gilt to me. Look at the hands, they match the black dial. Of course it's just a computer graphic from the 80s and some of the information in the book is obsolete.
> 
> That white Pan Am in the picture was one I thought may be fake because it doesn't have a gilt dial. I have not seen any picture that seems to show one with faded gilt like you see on so many of the black dials which led to be thinking the white dial didn't exist (counterfeits are easier to product without gilt). But what if the white Pan Am didn't actually have gilt at all on it?
> 
> I believe all the black dialed Explorers, Submariners, and GMT-Masters of the 1950s used gold or silver gilt. Would Rolex have had a problem applying the same technique to a white dial? If all those pictures on the internet are indeed real white Pan Ams, then I guess they _didn't_ use it. I am glad Bill is using it now though because it should have been used back then. It really brings out the classiness of the white even more so and puts it right in line with the black dial, and I agree with him that black is ugly on a classy white watch. If Rolex did use black back then, I assume they had to because of limitations and not because it was a design choice. :think:


I am not a pilot but I have to assume to a pilot, which I am going to assume many of the Pan Am execs were at some point, I would believe that readability would trump class. Also I do not think we can assume that what we perceive as classy today would have been considered classy back then. Tastes and styles change and are very fluid. If you look at the link I provided he discusses (He has Italian and English on his site) the printing on a white dial. Feel free to read it if you wish.


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## Chromejob

You'll have to search back in this thread (there IS a method at the top of the page under Search Thread),[1] but my clear recollection is that it will be BGW9 for black, C3 or "natural" for white. One of the headaches Bill encountered on the Kingston production run was the sheer number of options that buyers were given: gilt hands, Rhodium hands, C3, BGW9, Date or not, glossy dial with gilt markings, matte dial with printed markings, "Bond" bezel, red pip+15-minute-indices bezel. o| IIRC, it made QC and assembly more expensive, and complicated. I suspect there will be two dial choices, and lume color will be predetermined for each.

RE: Stefano's "6542 Albino" blog post

In some of the most heated debates about the white dial I've read, some referred to his post as exacting corroboration that a gilt-on-black dial and black-on-white dial were made from the same source _cliche_ by Rolex. Others point out that he provides no image of the caseback on the white dial watch to establish it as an issued Pan Am case. Some argue that the _black dial_ that he uses as a reference _must also_ be a repainted dial, the fonts don't match other authenticated 6542s. Allegedly there was at least one third party that repainted Rolex dials with very high quality, but changed the font style. (In which case, Pan Am or no, makes no difference - anyone with a 6542 could've replaced the dial after initial delivery.)

Anyhoo, Stefano makes mention that _black dials_ were printed with the _galvanic method_, but white dials weren't. Could Rolex use galvanic printing on white dials? I dunno. Did they? I dunno. Why do I rehash this? Because I haven't seen any pics of albino 6542s with gilt printing on the dial -- I think it's an anachronism that this project is adding by popular demand. Frankly, I think it'll put the Key West in even greater demand than the Kingston is in the secondary market. If one optional variation is an homage to a Yeti, so be it. :-!

Beating a dead horse?

That Skeet book illustration clearly (to me) shows a service replacement bezel, aluminum, cadet blue+red, not the darker acrylic/bakelite bezel from original issue. Makes me question that page.....

I know for myself, now in my third year of needing reading/computer glasses, I have difficulty reading my Seiko SKXA47 "White Knight," so it's a black dial for me. The white dial as we've designed will be supremely classy [but will be wasted on me].

[1] Project GMT: Design thread - Page 32


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## Cleans Up

man this is making me think seriously about trying to secure funds for one of each!!!! I hardly have a white dial and have passed off most of what I've had, so a strong white dialed GMT is calling me. On the other hand I have passe on most of the white dials I've had, and 80% or so of my watch box is currently black dial b/c they are so timeless and just plain right. I can't wait for bill to present us the option, but I'm somewhat afraid my picket book will suffer.


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## mrklabb

I'd prefer bgw9 for either dial option


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## White Tuna

mrklabb said:


> I'd prefer bgw9 for either dial option


You are an abomination! In matters of taste and style there is always one clearly superior option!

The ignorance and inclusion of your statement is frying my brains!


----------



## Chromejob

*N.B.*

From my reading about it, the color of the Super LuminaNova (SLN) in the dark is NOT necessarily the color on the dial in normal light. I.e. you can have "vintage" cream or ecru lume color on a dial, that glows C3 in the dark. If someone who does lume knows different, let me know....


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> View attachment 1691898


I've only ever seen fried brains in Texas or Chicago and usually in the german neighborhoods...


----------



## White Tuna

mlb212 said:


> Where do you live? I've only even seen fried brains in Texas or Chicago and usually in the german neighborhoods...


I live in DC. That is not my picture though. There is a small taco place in Front Royal that may have had brains but I cannot remember. I had the cheek and head taco's.


----------



## gshock626

Chromejob said:


> From my reading about it, the color of the Super LuminaNova (SLN) in the dark is NOT necessarily the color on the dial in normal light. I.e. you can have "vintage" cream or ecru lume color on a dial, that glows C3 in the dark. If someone who does lume knows different, let me know....


This is true. My Precista PRS-82 has vintage lume that glows like C3.


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> I live in DC. That is not my picture though. There is a small taco place in Front Royal that may have had brains but I cannot remember. I had the cheek and head taco's.


No brains there but District Taco is the best tacos in the area. I go there all the time! Check it out!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> No brains there but District Taco is the best tacos in the area. I go there all the time! Check it out!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I keep hearing about District Taco. I will try it but I use some small taco trucks and restaurants.

Trucks:
Comida Latina Express on the corner of George Mason and Columbia Pike 
El Chilango Rosslyn

Take out:
El Charrito Caminante, Mexican Restaurant in Arlington

I know a lot of dirty, little, slutty food places in Northern VA.


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> No brains there but District Taco is the best tacos in the area. I go there all the time! Check it out!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I keep hearing about District Taco. I will try it but I use some small taco trucks and restaurants.

Trucks:
Comida Latina Express on the corner of George Mason and Columbia Pike 
El Chilango Rosslyn

Take out:
El Charrito Caminante, Mexican Restaurant in Arlington

I know a lot of dirty, little, slutty food places in Northern VA.


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> I keep hearing about District Taco. I will try it but I use some small taco trucks and restaurants.
> 
> Trucks:
> Comida Latina Express on the corner of George Mason and Columbia Pike
> El Chilango Rosslyn
> 
> Take out:
> El Charrito Caminante, Mexican Restaurant in Arlington
> 
> I know a lot of dirty, little, slutty food places in Northern VA.


I think an MKII meeting in Northern VA is in order.


----------



## Thieuster

mlb212 said:


> I think an MKII meeting in Northern VA is in order.


C'mon guys! Make it SW Florida!

Menno


----------



## TheDude

You're not far from the District location in Arlington. They have a truck too... 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Thieuster

Back on topic.... I just had a look on Bill's website and there there is this little timeline / infographic about the Key West. According to that line, the KW development has reached the production phase. Personally I wouldn't mind a small pic of the parts Bill has assembled thus far...

Menno


----------



## TheDude

Hehehehehehe

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

Thieuster said:


> Back on topic.... I just had a look on Bill's website and there there is this little timeline / infographic about the Key West. According to that line, the KW development has reached the production phase. Personally I wouldn't mind a small pic of the parts Bill has assembled thus far...
> 
> Menno


I think that graphic has looked the same since they changed to that style project report. But, you can see some of the parts on the facebook page.


----------



## Arthur

Getting back to the topic if dials, I re-read the article by Stefano Mazzariol
And looking at the photos, the white dial printing us definitely black. The black dial is gilt. It seems to me that back a long time ago, when dial colors/ printing was first discussed, the big negative with gilt on white was the legibility issue. Gilt and white are pretty close and in some light angles, gilt looks white. Back in the 50's when the 6542 was produced, Rolex was all about functionality, and to me they would have been more interested in the watch being easy to read, not so much about style. Personally, I don't believe the white dials ever had gilt printing, and those that show up are redials. 
Also someone made mention about the case back marking, according to several articles I read( most are very similar, so they may all be written from the same source), there were hundreds of crew members piloting the PanAm fleet. According to these sources PanAm bought hundreds of black dial 6542's and later 1675's for their flight crews. These watches were not marked with any PanAm trademarks or logos, nor did they have issue numbers. So if this is correct, the occasional black dial 6542 that has shown up with a logo'ed case back could well have started life as a white dial, but when returned to Rolex for service the dial was replaced with a black tritium dial. Back then there was a huge amount of press and lots of concern about radiation. The early dials had those big dial plots with radium Lume as well as radium hands. Rolex aware of the adverse publicity was very proactive about getting those watches back to their service centers to replace the dials, hands and inserts replaced with tritium dials/hands and non Lume aluminum inserts.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

Thieuster said:


> C'mon guys! Make it SW Florida!
> 
> Menno


Florida Avenue? So U street?


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> Hehehehehehe
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


OMG, Seeing that cup I think I have eaten at the Arlington location when we had the derecho. I was driving around looking for power and that neighborhood had it. I saw that place and it was packed and ate there. I need to go back.


----------



## nick_sixx

Ordering open!


----------



## Eric90

nick_sixx said:


> Ordering open!


Got my order number!

Hope that means i'm in the 25!

...and under 4 minutes later its closed!

wow..


----------



## JFingers

my order got rejected 4 times and now they're out of stock 
guess I'll be waiting til next month.

I hope they went to good homes.
-only jake


----------



## supersmitty

In and out in under 4 minutes!! I keep telling my wife that 4 minutes can feel like an eternity... and boy was I right... for once!!!

I feel fortunate that i was able to get on the list and get an order number... oh and the wife is proud too. 
best 4 minutes this week boyz... glad I spent them with you!


----------



## Nick H

3rd year of lurking - 2nd MKII order - 1st post

Happy to say I'm (hopefully) in the 25...


----------



## Nicodemus

My experience....









Guess I will try again next time....


----------



## Eric90

That was intense - real lottery to get through by the sounds of it!

For those that managed to get an order in, what is your order status in the MK-II My Orders Page - mine is 1.1 Awaiting Scheduling?

Thanks,


----------



## timeturner7

I still have them in my cart, but obviously out of stock. Don't know if the refresh of my browser killed me, because the checkout just wasn't going anywhere.

Disappointing, but will be waking up at 3am for the next round!!!

Congratulations to those who got in this round, you must be very happy!


----------



## mlb212

Eric90 said:


> That was intense - real lottery to get through by the sounds of it!
> 
> For those that managed to get an order in, what is your order status in the MK-II My Orders Page - mine is 1.1 Awaiting Scheduling?
> 
> Thanks,


My status is "1.1 Awaiting Scheduling", I got an email as well.


----------



## Nicodemus

Hmmmm, yeah. My GMT order is still sitting in my shopping cart, but is says it out of stock.

Interesting, I wonder if I should try to delete it or see if it stays there for the the next round of ordering...

Maybe a super expedited checkout...?


----------



## supersmitty

Eric90 said:


> That was intense - real lottery to get through by the sounds of it!
> 
> For those that managed to get an order in, what is your order status in the MK-II My Orders Page - mine is 1.1 Awaiting Scheduling?
> 
> Thanks,


Same on this end, plus confirmation email


----------



## mlb212

Nicodemus said:


> Hmmmm, yeah. My GMT order is still sitting in my shopping cart, but is says it out of stock.
> 
> Interesting, I wonder if I should try to delete it or see if it stays there for the the next round of ordering...
> 
> Maybe a super expedited checkout...?


I would go with it...


----------



## mlb212

supersmitty said:


> Same on this end, plus confirmation email


Its also being processed by my credit card as "pending transaction" in my account...


----------



## thejollywatcher

Twas a veritable feeding frenzy so it seems.....I'm planning to take the day off from work next time!!! ;-) :-d


----------



## eganwh

Status officially changed to Production QA. Plank holders have entered the final stretch.


----------



## tmoris

Congrats to all who got in, reminds me about my ordering of the kingston and panam. Proper preparation is the key to success. Having an account ready, being logged in and if necessary, having ones details ready in notepad so they can be copy pasted quickly if needed. This does the trick for me every time


----------



## White Tuna

eganwh said:


> Status officially changed to Production QA. Plank holders have entered the final stretch.
> 
> View attachment 1713890


I am not sure how accurate that page is. I am not counting on seeing a watch any time this year.


----------



## eganwh

Per Bill's latest email, plankholders will have until January 31, 2015 to make the second half of the full payment, so I would not expect any watches to ship before then.


----------



## mlb212

eganwh said:


> Per Bill's latest email, plankholders will have until January 31, 2015 to make the second half of the full payment, so I would not expect any watches to ship before then.


What email?


----------



## eganwh

Recent email to plankholders sent on Oct 7:



> *Project GMT: Request for 2nd Deposit (Part A) ​*​Dear Plankowner,
> 
> This is just a quick note to let you know that we will be sending you additional information and instructions about collecting the 2nd deposit at the end of October.
> 
> To try to avoid any confusion I also wanted to let you know that we will be opening up 2nd stage pre-orders to new customers on October 13th. You do not have to do anything at this time and this ordering does not in any way effect your priority. The pricing and terms are different.
> 
> We will be sending you a private link at the end of the month for you to submit your 2nd deposits. There is no rush. This private link will be active until January 31st, 2015. Additional information will be forwarded in the next ("Part B") email.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Bill "Yao"​


----------



## BigHaole

My goal is to take my Key West on my summer vacation, in July 2015. Any bets on if I have it by then?


----------



## Jfha1210

My goal is to have it for my next Birthday (12th October)... 
I must confess than getting a place on this pre-order batch has been my best 45th's gift... 

JH iPhone


----------



## Chromejob

:rodekaart Maybe we need lock this thread. This is, after all, the DESIGN topic, not the "let's talk about ordering" thread. There are not one, but two, threads about 2nd stage ordering specifically. And Project GMT/Key West has concluded the design phase and into production QA and general ordering.

I'm feeling the "Facebook-ization" of forums in which comments are left just wherever you are, not in the logical and appropriate place. Grrr. :-x Or ... I perhaps misunderstand the purpose of making a thread a "sticky" (my def.: specific topic discussion which for urgency or importance is always at the head of the topic list).

Grumpily yours,

B. A. Humbug, Esq.


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> My goal is to take my Key West on my summer vacation, in July 2015. Any bets on if I have it by then?


I would bet against you having it at that time. But it is not impossible and definitely I could see fall.


----------



## Jfha1210

Chromejob said:


> :rodekaart Maybe we need lock this thread. This is, after all, the DESIGN topic, not the "let's talk about ordering" thread. There are not one, but two, threads about 2nd stage ordering specifically. And Project GMT/Key West has concluded the design phase and into production QA and general ordering.
> 
> I'm feeling the "Facebook-ization" of forums in which comments are left just wherever you are, not in the logical and appropriate place. Grrr. :-x Or ... I perhaps misunderstand the purpose of making a thread a "sticky" (my def.: specific topic discussion which for urgency or importance is always at the head of the topic list).
> 
> Grumpily yours,
> 
> B. A. Humbug, Esq.


You're completely right. Sorry for my previous posts

JH iPhone


----------



## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> :rodekaart Maybe we need lock this thread. This is, after all, the DESIGN topic, not the "let's talk about ordering" thread. There are not one, but two, threads about 2nd stage ordering specifically. And Project GMT/Key West has concluded the design phase and into production QA and general ordering.
> 
> I'm feeling the "Facebook-ization" of forums in which comments are left just wherever you are, not in the logical and appropriate place. Grrr. :-x Or ... I perhaps misunderstand the purpose of making a thread a "sticky" (my def.: specific topic discussion which for urgency or importance is always at the head of the topic list).
> 
> Grumpily yours,
> 
> B. A. Humbug, Esq.


LOL, we are not going to win this one.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Chromejob said:


> :rodekaart Maybe we need lock this thread. This is, after all, the DESIGN topic, not the "let's talk about ordering" thread. There are not one, but two, threads about 2nd stage ordering specifically. And Project GMT/Key West has concluded the design phase and into production QA and general ordering.
> 
> I'm feeling the "Facebook-ization" of forums in which comments are left just wherever you are, not in the logical and appropriate place. Grrr. :-x Or ... I perhaps misunderstand the purpose of making a thread a "sticky" (my def.: specific topic discussion which for urgency or importance is always at the head of the topic list).
> 
> Grumpily yours,
> 
> B. A. Humbug, Esq.











*I* _*Strongly Agree*_.....

I feel your pain.... 

-- Best --


----------



## STEELINOX

Good...

Now can we talk about chamfers?

I really hope to see some chamfers you can actually glide a fingernail against and possibly get a cut, what say you peeps?

Randy


----------



## Arthur

Nice chamfers would be icing on the cake!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> Nice chamfers would be icing on the cake!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I really like these that taper towards the center of the dial...









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric90

eganwh said:


> Recent email to plankholders sent on Oct 7:


A quick question for those with some experience with these project watches (i.e. Kingston)

Now that Bill is requesting final payment from the plank orders (by the end of Jan 15), how long realistically till we see a prototype of the watch?

With the kingstons how long was the wait from final payment to delivery for plank orders?

Cheers


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Eric90: :-x

Project GMT: Design thread - Page 99

Please do your research, then post your questions in a relevant thread.

-- Best Wishes --


----------



## gnome666

Arthur said:


> Nice chamfers would be icing on the cake!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I once dated a girl who had nice chamfers......ZING!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

gnome666 said:


> I once dated a girl who had nice chamfers......ZING!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Real or fake?


----------



## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Eric90: :-x
> 
> Project GMT: Design thread - Page 99
> 
> Please do your research, then post your questions in a relevant thread.
> 
> -- Best Wishes --


OUCH!


----------



## supersmitty

Gentlemen... do we know where we landed with respect to the cyclops?
I've tried to read all the posts related to this project (no small feat) and don't have a clear idea as to whether the KW will have this or have it as an option. 
I gathered that some hate the cyclops and don't want it... some hate it but think it ought to be a part of the KW for historical/aesthetic purposes, and some like it and want one.
I'm in the latter camp but haven't come across an MKII offering that had one and wanted to know if its even a possibility... did I read correctly that the slope or curvature of the crystal has a lot to do with whether it can be done or not?
So my question is… if it can be done, do we know if it will be an option? Or like a lot of the details we’re speculating about… just wait and see?
Best
SS.


----------



## 66Cooper

Last I heard, no cyclops. The problem I remember was that the KW was going to have a domed crystal and putting a cyclops on a dome would not be ideal. 

Personally, I would love the cyclops...especially with the WONDERFUL roulette date wheel. Who wouldnt want a large red date staring them down I was thinking it would have been cool to have a tall, flat top crystal with cyclops for the KW. It would really set it apart from the Kingston as well as the rest of MKII line up. The dome is simply lovely on my Kingston so I guess I cant complain too much. Haha


----------



## Thieuster

66Cooper said:


> Last I heard, no cyclops. The problem I remember was that the KW was going to have a domed crystal and putting a cyclops on a dome would not be ideal.
> 
> Personally, I would love the cyclops...especially with the WONDERFUL roulette date wheel. Who wouldnt want a large red date staring them down I was thinking it would have been cool to have a tall, flat top crystal with cyclops for the KW. It would really set it apart from the Kingston as well as the rest of MKII line up. The dome is simply lovely on my Kingston so I guess I cant complain too much. Haha


^^^^this!^^^^

Menno


----------



## White Tuna

Sheesh! This was just discussed 3 years ago. Some people!

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/pan-am-dead-601078-7.html#post4416753

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/pan-am-dead-601078-7.html#post4417095

I really doubt there will be a cyclops. (*There will not be!*) But this is the info we have.


----------



## STEELINOX

"NO CLOPS" (eyesore,refracting bugger) vote here !

This sapphire is spossed to be "domed" too, so if ya dont want the glass costing as much or more as the mid case, we shouldn't have a clops glued on !

2c

Thanks,
Randy


----------



## DEV.Woulf

I was originally posting how I dislike the cyclops and hope if it's on, it will be an option only but after looking at some pictures I have to say the red date really does pop better with the cyclops on. I don't normally like the cyclops on anything (I have a watch with one), and even seeing it on a Submariner is so odd to me after seeing so many pictures of the original with no date. It's an iconic feature of the GMT-Master though, and fits it's more sophisticated status. If Bill can put it on there, I am all for it.

On the other hand, since the cyclops was an optional feature, a standard date would not be sacrilege at all.


----------



## White Tuna

I would bet money that there will be no Cyclops and no production option for a Cyclops. I think that people can add them aftermarket if it is really important.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: A Super-Cool option would be an Optional Internal Cyclops -- one on the_ inner_ surface of the crystal... :-!

Now..... How unlikely is that? :-d:-d

.... BTW, I was lucky enough to marry the 'Woman with Nice Chamfers' that I dated.... :-! _(....and still married...!!)_ b-)

b-)b-) -- _Feeling Extremely Fortunate Today_ -- b-)b-)

-- My Best to All --

|>|>


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> I would bet money that there will be no Cyclops and no production option for a Cyclops. I think that people can add them aftermarket if it is really important.


"I fold" (lol)


----------



## Jfha1210

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: A Super-Cool option would be an Optional Internal Cyclops -- one on the_ inner_ surface of the crystal... :-!
> 
> |>|>


Exactly! I was thinking in my Universal Geneve Polerouter and its wonderful internal cyclops... That roulette DW deserves to be amplified...


----------



## Chromejob

I'm surprised that it was originally optional (bet dealers or service centers installed them on request), but think about it folks. If the crystal is domed, the cyclops has to be beveled on the underside, and done in such a way that marries to the crystal perfectly (bubbles in the adhesive probably distort the image, but what do I know about installing cyclops? NOTHING), and then it has to be _positioned_ just perfectly ... I can imagine Bill's QC problems with this. And again -- remember the Alamo, erm, the QC and production issues on the Kingston. I'm sure that Bill wants the KW to go much, much smoother so he can get on to the next exciting episode of _Mk II special editions_.

The more I think about it, a cyclops might look fine on an albino 6542, but the black-dialed model was meant for use in a cockpit, sometimes a darkened cockpit during night flying. I know from the 1-2 I've got with really good 1.5x or 2.0x cyclops, the view of the hands gets distorted when they pass underneath. I'm not sure I'd like that on a GMT watch. YMMV.


----------



## heebs

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: A Super-Cool option would be an Optional Internal Cyclops -- one on the_ inner_ surface of the crystal... :-!
> 
> Now..... How unlikely is that? :-d:-d
> 
> .... BTW, I was lucky enough to marry the 'Woman with Nice Chamfers' that I dated.... :-! _(....and still married...!!)_ b-)
> 
> b-)b-) -- _Feeling Extremely Fortunate Today_ -- b-)b-)
> 
> -- My Best to All --
> 
> |>|>


I have an old Bulova Snorkel with an internal cyclops on a domed acrylic crystal. The execution is pretty cool. I'm not much for cyclops in general (I got James at MWWC to remove the one from my SAR-D) but the internal one is very cool.


----------



## White Tuna

Personally I would prefer a cyclops but when I first started reading WUS forums it seemed that most of the watch men were anti-cyclops. I am a little surprised that so many people want one.

Dat date wheel.


----------



## supersmitty

***** said:


> I have an old Bulova Snorkel with an internal cyclops on a domed acrylic crystal. The execution is pretty cool.


Pics please?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

;-) I really don't think a cyclops is likely to happen.

W. Tuna is correct -- And I don't want to do or suggest anything that might possibly act to slow this Project down.....;-)

I've got 'cheaters' for when I need to read the number on the date wheel.....;-)

:think: Individual owners can have one installed after-market if necessary....

-- Best --


----------



## 66Cooper

Chrome has it right. That was the conversation Bill had said. Way to hard to do with a domed crystal. 
Then I remember a few people started looking into having one added. Can't remember the details but I guess it could be done but only by the real pros out there. 

But alas, that poor wonderful date we'll will have to just be seen by the naked eye. i'll probably just carry a loop with me and with me and whip it out anytime I want to get a good view. Haha


----------



## Chromejob

Does anyone recall what we decided upon for the caseback? I looked into the Pan Am logo, alas someone owns the trademark and is keeping it alive and well with a line of nostalgic paraphernalia (some of it pretty cool, like retro flight bags). Someone suggested a lovely 3d spiral/globe image that looked prohibitively (?) complicated to put a watch back....

I ask because I happened upon this photo of the _Pan Am Worldport_ at JFK Airport, designed in the 1950s, opened in 1960. Exactly the right era. Note the pattern of structures on the roof. 










From Remembering The Golden Age of the American Airport | A Continuous Lean.


----------



## BigHaole

The original Pan Am Rolex was intended for pilots who have, by definition, good vision. This version of the Pan Am Rolex is intended for people like me, who do not have good vision and who would appreciate the benefits of a cyclops. I understand that it is more difficult, and I won't drop out of the project if it doesn't have one, but I would at least like to have the discussion, as Bill indicated we would, 3 years back. And, in the spirit of these watches being modern interpretations of classic designs, why not at least consider what would be a valuable improvement on the original.


----------



## Thieuster

Sadly the Worldport's roof wasn't a circle... 

Menno


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> The original Pan Am Rolex was intended for pilots who have, by definition, good vision. This version of the Pan Am Rolex is intended for people like me, who do not have good vision and who would appreciate the benefits of a cyclops. I understand that it is more difficult, and I won't drop out of the project if it doesn't have one, but I would at least like to have the discussion, as Bill indicated we would, 3 years back. And, in the spirit of these watches being modern interpretations of classic designs, why not at least consider what would be a valuable improvement on the original.


I am not sure if I interpreted a lot of what I read on these forums when I first got here or if the style has changed but I am shocked to see so much interest in a cyclops. I am not unhappy, just shocked. I think it is too late for the cyclops. I feel a lot of the decisions have been made and I would not be shocked to see a prototype picture before the end of the year.

After last weeks MKII bash fest (which in hindsight seems rather too well timed with the opening of the ordering to be an accident.....) I am starting to get excited!


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> I am not sure if I interpreted a lot of what I read on these forums when I first got here or if the style has changed but I am shocked to see so much interest in a cyclops. I am not unhappy, just shocked. I think it is too late for the cyclops. I feel a lot of the decisions have been made and I would not be shocked to see a prototype picture before the end of the year.
> 
> After last weeks MKII bash fest (which in hindsight seems rather too well timed with the opening of the ordering to be an accident.....) I am starting to get excited!


White Tuna,

I'm also very excited about the project moving. I guess I'm surprised that we have not had more discussion about the KW project. I knew it was not going to be the same as the Kingston project, which was bogged down in too much discussion (from what I have heard), but I expected more then we have had. So, while I "hope" it's too late for the cyclops discussion (too late meaning that the project is nearing completion), until I hear it is, for sure, I (as a plank holder) would like to share my hopes/desires for this project. I would hope you, as a fellow plank holder, would want to discuss them, as well.


----------



## bbuzby

I was able to get what I think was one of the last spots during the 2nd stage pre-order. I accidentally happened upon the opportunity after grabbing my first MK II, a like new 369 Nasaau about a week ago. I am loving my Nassau and looking forward to more Key West conversation and news. I'd love to hear what dial/bezel combinations (of the likely options) people are most interested in. - Brian


----------



## Thieuster

Well, let me be clear. First, I don't want to delay the develpment and production of the KW. Second, I simply agreed with 66Cooper about the fact that a cyclops would look nice on the KW. For several reasons mentioned. Sometimes it's simply nice to have a dream(...) 


Menno


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Here is a picture of a GMT-Master without the cyclops. I think it looks great. I guess it'll just be something else to set it apart from modern versions of the watch and hark back to it's era.


----------



## gwold

Devarika Woulf said:


> Here is a picture of a GMT-Master without the cyclops. I think it looks great. I guess it'll just be something else to set it apart from modern versions of the watch and hark back to it's era.
> 
> View attachment 1748482


Thanks for that photo, DW. It does look pretty good.

I was leaning towards the cyclops myself, but not on a domed crystal. Sitting here looking at my Fulcrum's dome, a cyclops would ruin it. So if the KW will be domed too, I'll skip the cyclops.


----------



## BigHaole

And here's a scaled down version of the same image. Not quite as easy to read.


----------



## Chromejob

Nothing stopping us from buying an aftermarket cyclops to our liking and having Mk II's separate repair/servicing third party install it. To each his own. I want to see the project go, go, go. V1, rotate.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

BigHaole said:


> And here's a scaled down version of the same image. Not quite as easy to read.


Very true. A compromise must be made though, I think. I mean, most people only look at the date once a day anyway (unless they're signing numerous documents). Though I would like one too, a cyclops doesn't seem so important if it's going to cause manufacturing or delivery issues.


----------



## Chromejob

If youse guys spy a look at the date wheel part again, you'll notice that the font Bill used is bigger and clearer than most you see on contemporary watches. Oh, and it's _roulette_ ... you'll start to get the habit of seeing _red_ and knowing what day that must be.

Just sayin'....


----------



## TheDude

Devarika Woulf said:


> Here is a picture of a GMT-Master without the cyclops. I think it looks great. I guess it'll just be something else to set it apart from modern versions of the watch and hark back to it's era.
> 
> View attachment 1748482


I already posted one a while back...

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=8415152

Also, many of you may not know that back then Rolex would permit buyers to specify different crystals when buying. Even until much later when the Sub Date was released you could get a Superdome. For this reason many vintage owners swap the crystals during services today, opting to keep such a configuration for the next 5 years or so depending on their servicing habits.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

Look, there was no chance of an entirely new crystal, which would be needed for a cyclops. Ideally it would have been like this which is dead flat BTW.










Also, I've been meaning to ask... Do we get the thinner bezel or is the higher Kingston/Nassau bezel being reused?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

Way back in the earlier discussions about cyclops, I took some photos of my Kingston date with a cyclops. I happened to have a cyclops and stuck it on my Kingston. I believe the photos are somewhere way back in this thread. Because the Kingston was a homage to the Rolex 6238, which was a non date watch, to me the cyclops appeared odd. However the KW which is a homage of the Rolex 6542, a date model, the cyclops would look fine. 
Personally, I would like a cyclops, but not at the expense of further delaying the KW. Like what was said above, if one wanted a cyclops, I believe that it could be added later by the owner.. The only problem that I foresee would be finding one that had a bottom curvature that would fit the curved Crystal.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

Is there an advantage to a domed crystal? I thought that was only useful on dive watches.


----------



## STEELINOX

BigHaole said:


> Is there an advantage to a domed crystal? I thought that was only useful on dive watches.


It gives the line of the watch some depth and interest. Optically, there aren't really any pluses...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Edited for content


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Chromejob said:


> Does anyone recall what we decided upon for the caseback?....
> 
> From Remembering The Golden Age of the American Airport | A Continuous Lean.


 I seem to recall Bill making some very brief remarks about some that he thought were interesting - But can't remember anything specific.

:think: Prepare to be surprised (?)

Thanks for that link btw. That is an interesting and thought-provoking read. :-!

-- Best --


----------



## HJR

Devarika Woulf said:


> Here is a picture of a GMT-Master without the cyclops. I think it looks great. I guess it'll just be something else to set it apart from modern versions of the watch and hark back to it's era.
> 
> View attachment 1748482


That's so nice!!! Great pic!


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> It gives the line of the watch some depth and interest. Optically, there aren't really any pluses...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sure, but the old flat cyclops plexis had tons of depth and character too...

1680 sub...










6542










Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> Sure, but the old flat cyclops plexis had tons of depth and character too...
> 
> 1680 sub...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6542
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Any idea what a plexi'd glass w clops would cost for the MK, cause if I had a choice over a flat sapphire I would pick the plexi !

Geosat 4 marker beacon terra 1


----------



## jussi

STEELINOX said:


> Any idea what a plexi'd glass w clops would cost for the MK, cause if I had a choice over a flat sapphire I would pick the plexi !


I would have to agree with Steelie...!
(even if the sappihire is domed like on my Kingston)


----------



## 66Cooper

I remember having this conversation back when as well. Swapping to plexi. Maybe someone even contacted Jack about it. Would be cool to find out as an option.


----------



## TheDude

Plexi isn't super robust. You hit it wrong and it can lose watertightness. You also need to replace them with each service.

Sapphire is definitely superior functionality wise.


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> Plexi isn't super robust. You hit it wrong and it can lose watertightness. You also need to replace them with each service.
> 
> Sapphire is *definitely superior functionality wise*.


How, is this so?

If ya knock either of these with a matching velocity; a lateral impact - equivalent to the knicking of a door "strike plate," I would prolly say that the plexi would suffer a serious scuffing and still remain water resistant vs a chip to the sapphire (maybe, anyways) !

This is all academic at best... The sapphire is inherently more costly to produce and install vs the plexi and I remain that the plexi would be nicer looking = imho...


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> How, is this so?
> 
> If ya knock either of these with a matching velocity; a lateral impact - equivalent to the knicking of a door "strike plate," I would prolly say that the plexi would suffer a serious scuffing and still remain water resistant vs a chip to the sapphire (maybe, anyways) !
> 
> This is all academic at best... The sapphire is inherently more costly to produce and install vs the plexi and I remain that the plexi would be nicer looking = imho...


No, it is not academic. I know people with properly maintained vintage Rolexes who claim relatively light blows have caused leakage. I think they can become unseated, and the seal is compromised.

There's a reason so many of the vintage pieces suffered flooding...


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> How, is this so?
> 
> If ya knock either of these with a matching velocity; a lateral impact - equivalent to the knicking of a door "strike plate," I would prolly say that the plexi would suffer a serious scuffing and still remain water resistant vs a chip to the sapphire (maybe, anyways) !
> 
> This is all academic at best... The sapphire is inherently more costly to produce and install vs the plexi and I remain that the plexi would be nicer looking = imho...


Nicer looking is subjective and I am sure the vast majority of our tastes will change over the years.

I kind of like the idea of plexiglass and at one time preferred it. Owning my Raven with an acrylic crystal has made me change my mind a little. It does seem to scuff and scratch with my use where, knock on wood and I am not taunting you Gods of Scuffs and Scratches, my Kingston has not. Even with much more wear.

With the acrylic I easily can get the marks out with a little toothpaste but how many times can I do that? Where do I get a replacement crystal? I plan on owning the GMT for a long time. I feel much more comfortable with the sapphire lasting decades than acrylic. And I am not even sure if the modern acrylic's yellow....which I have to admit looks good in some pictures but I am not sure would be something I would like on my wrist.


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> No, it is not academic. I know people with properly maintained vintage Rolexes who claim relatively light blows have caused leakage. I think they can become unseated, and the seal is compromised.
> 
> There's a reason so many of the vintage pieces suffered flooding...


But, TheDude, isn't your perspective presented in the context of "vintage" pieces only?

Here, with this project, we have with it a "new mid casing, new oring(s) and a new plexi..."

I can understand that with vintage, there are mid casing pittings, old water compromises (caused by incompetent glass) and with that the inability for the "old mid case" to ever - never - be water tight again...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> But, TheDude, isn't your perspective presented in the context of "vintage" pieces only?
> 
> Here, with this project, we have with it a "new mid casing, new oring(s) and a new plexi..."
> 
> I can understand that with vintage, there are mid casing pittings, old water compromises (caused by incompetent glass) and with that the inability for the "old mid case" to ever - never - be water tight again...
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


I can't speak for every example, but these vintage watches are definitely capable of maintaining watertightness. Bob Ridley serviced my now-41 year old Sub and told me I could dive every day with it.

You bring up a good point that perhaps a modern day implementation of plexi could somehow be better. This is certainly possible, but IMO not likely with the pricing and tolerances we are talking about. Rolexes from the 50s had visibly finer machining detail (and possibly tolerances as well).


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> I can't speak for every example, but these vintage watches are definitely capable of maintaining watertightness. Bob Ridley serviced my now-41 year old Sub and told me I could dive every day with it.
> 
> You bring up a good point that perhaps a modern day implementation of plexi could somehow be better. This is certainly possible, but IMO not likely with the pricing and tolerances we are talking about. Rolexes from the 50s had visibly finer machining detail (and possibly tolerances as well).


Ridley is a Master, and I too would not even think twice about any of his workings...

But, is this really "Rocket Science"?

Plexi configurations are simply "press fit" to an Oring which is seated in the mid case with a proper expansion/shrinkage tolerance...

If the Speedy cases can fly in space so can the Keywest !

But, I can understand how most wuld rather not even bother with plexi...

It would be nice as an option = and a Franklin difference in price - or two or three Franklins...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> Ridley is a Master, and I too would not even think twice about any of his workings...
> 
> But, is this really "Rocket Science"?
> 
> Plexi configurations are simply "press fit" to an Oring which is seated in the mid case with a proper expansion/shrinkage tolerance...
> 
> If the Speedy cases can fly in space so can the Keywest !
> 
> But, I can understand how most wuld rather not even bother with plexi...
> 
> It would be nice as an option = and a Franklin difference in price - or two or three Franklins...
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Well, Sapphire is used because it's technically superior.

Plexi is used in space because it doesn't shatter (weightlessness + glass shards = bad).


----------



## Dragoon

Also, price aside, you can get a sapphire crystal that imitates the look of the raisesd plexi crystal. Not that you/we want that for the GMT Key West but if you/we did it could be accomplished with sapphire also.

Just look at the Steinhart Vintage Red model (I think that is the name). The original version had a raised plexi crystal and was later replaced with a raised sapphire crystal. While they did nt look identical they certainly both looked good and had the vintage vibe.



STEELINOX said:


> Ridley is a Master, and I too would not even think twice about any of his workings...
> 
> But, is this really "Rocket Science"?
> 
> Plexi configurations are simply "press fit" to an Oring which is seated in the mid case with a proper expansion/shrinkage tolerance...
> 
> If the Speedy cases can fly in space so can the Keywest !
> 
> But, I can understand how most wuld rather not even bother with plexi...
> 
> It would be nice as an option = and a Franklin difference in price - or two or three Franklins...
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

This just in:

Project GMT: Dials

*Anticipation*...... ;-)


----------



## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> This just in:
> 
> Project GMT: Dials
> 
> *Anticipation*...... ;-)
> 
> View attachment 1949330


Great!


----------



## White Tuna

Bill, if you read this will the name Key West GMT be in red on the black dial? There was some discussion of this many moons ago and you liked the idea and said that we should bring it up later. I think it would be a nice.


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> Bill, if you read this will the name Key West GMT be in red on the black dial? There was some discussion of this many moons ago and you liked the idea and said that we should bring it up later. I think it would be a nice.


Agree as the nicety of "red" text. And just for plankers, that should keep the secondary mkt truly in the "collectable" hemisphere...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Chromejob

Thanks for posting, OCM. Work is keeping me so busy (back after orthroscopic surg'ry) that I can't check WUS regularly. (And I'm using a iPad Mini more, but don't have Tapatalk on it.) 

Meanwhile, my 3-6-9 Nassau is ready to ship, keeping me super happy about Mk II developments.


----------



## teejay

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Oops wrong thread.


----------



## teejay

Hi guys, anyone heard what the two dials will look like? Dial/bezel combos? Gilt or no gilt? Thanks.


----------



## BigHaole

teejay said:


> Hi guys, anyone heard what the two dials will look like? Dial/bezel combos? Gilt or no gilt? Thanks.


teejay, it's buried in the previous 105 pages, but the best summary is in this thread:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-pics-1172738.html


----------



## teejay

Thanks man. Wasn't sure if there was another update since Bill said the dials were complete.



BigHaole said:


> teejay, it's buried in the previous 105 pages, but the best summary is in this thread:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-gmt-pics-1172738.html


----------



## BigHaole

Nothing I've heard of.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

This just in:

News

More Good News coming soon!

:-!


----------



## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> This just in:
> 
> News
> 
> More Good News coming soon!
> 
> :-!


Getting really excited! I have not made my final payments yet. I guess I should do it today.


----------



## Thieuster

White Tuna said:


> Getting really excited! I have not made my final payments yet. I guess I should do it today.


Equally excited - and paid my bill a few weeks back ;-) 
I'll be hitting the F5 button all day, next Sunday! (So will a lot of you guys do as well, I think. There's not much to do when the pile of snow is hitting the gutters of your roof! Dutch news channels had and item about the US grinding to a halt as a result of this snowmageddon!)

Menno


----------



## 66Cooper

Actually, I haven't either. But I never received my second email. I wrote them, but haven't heard back yet. It's making me a little bit nervous.


----------



## Jfha1210

Do you know if a black dial w/ pepsi bezel will be available??? Or only w/Coke dial?? Will it be possible to buy a spare bezel??? I'm excited with this watch project!!!! 

JH iPhone


----------



## Darwin

I haven't received the second email, either. I'm equally worried that I'll miss out on this round (as I did the last because I was no where near a computer when it opened  )


----------



## 66Cooper

I really hope so! I hate to bring up a discussion that I am sure that has been talked about before but....

When talking about the 6542 with original (and simply mind bogglingly cool) bakelite, lumed bezel, I am 100% certain there was a Pepsi version but not that there was a Coke. I have seen the solid colored ones that were fitted to the gold models but was there REALLY a Coke insert, in bakelite for the 6542 OR does it just seem that way as the blues have turned dark over the years?


----------



## Arthur

There was never a "coke" insert in the GMT lineup until much later. The 6542 and the 1675 were not offered with the "coke" insert. All of those older vintage watches that have the red/black bezels now, had them added later. Since the GMT line used the same bezels from the 1675 all the way through at least the 16750's and possibly through the 16710 (GMTII), it was and easy task to pop out one insert and pop in another.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## nick_sixx

Arthur said:


> There was never a "coke" insert in the GMT lineup until much later. The 6542 and the 1675 were not offered with the "coke" insert. All of those older vintage watches that have the red/black bezels now, had them added later. Since the GMT line used the same bezels from the 1675 all the way through at least the 16750's and possibly through the 16710 (GMTII), it was and easy task to pop out one insert and pop in another.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I think he is referring to the Bakelite bezels that have darkened with age....they started blue but have oxidised to a dark navy now


----------



## 66Cooper

Exactly what I thought. Thank you for confirming.

Yes, the blue has darkened. Still, I was on Jakes Rolex blog and even there is a mention of pussy galore wear her "Coke" bezeled 6542. 

Whatever the options are, I know I want what is sure to be an amazing Pepsi bezel


----------



## nick_sixx

66Cooper said:


> Exactly what I thought. Thank you for confirming.
> 
> Yes, the blue has darkened. Still, I was on Jakes Rolex blog and even there is a mention of pussy galore wear her "Coke" bezeled 6542.
> 
> Whatever the options are, I know I want what is sure to be an amazing Pepsi bezel


I think they look better closer to Coke colours!


----------



## Jfha1210

... What I dream of is a black gilt dial with a well lumed pepsi bezel (blue/red) ... 

JH iPhone


----------



## White Tuna

Jfha1210 said:


> ... What I dream of is a black gilt dial with a well lumed pepsi bezel (blue/red) ...
> 
> JH iPhone


I am pretty sure these will not have a lumed bezel.


----------



## Thieuster

Okay.... Sunday morning overhere, 6 hrs ahead of the US (east coast)... Off to a lake 45 mins away for our (my son's - I'm on the coach's RIB) Sunday's sail-training. Can't wait for the mock-ups of the Key West. So, perhaps when I return later today, all's revealed!

Menno


----------



## jussi

Thieuster said:


> Okay.... Sunday morning overhere, 6 hrs ahead of the US (east coast)... Off to a lake 45 mins away for our (my son's - I'm on the coach's RIB) Sunday's sail-training. Can't wait for the mock-ups of the Key West. So, perhaps when I return later today, all's revealed!
> 
> Menno


...and heres Monday... maby Bill went back to His winter hibernation..:roll:


----------



## gwold

jussi said:


> ...and heres Monday... maby Bill went back to His winter hibernation..:roll:


I did re-read his News post, and noted that he never said *which* Sunday. ;-)


----------



## cobrajetjoe

Patiently waiting...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## gnome666

I think we should all take a deep breath and cut Bill a little slack. Let's remember he's just one guy juggling a ton of different projects (plus remeber I'm sure he has a family life too). If he was working on your watch, I'm sure you'd rather him spend the extra time making it a great piece rather than rushing through it to upload the gmt dial renderings..... I'm as eager as everyone else but let's put it on perpective. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Thieuster

> I think we should all take a deep breath and cut Bill a little slack. Let's remember he's just one guy juggling a ton of different projects (plus remeber I'm sure he has a family life too). If he was working on your watch, I'm sure you'd rather him spend the extra time making it a great piece rather than rushing through it to upload the gmt dial renderings..... I'm as eager as everyone else but let's put it on perpective.


I agree! Normally I would not post messages like that, but at the time of writing, I thought that Bill was quite clear in his last message. Hence my optimistic message yesterday morning.

M.


----------



## Khoi Nguyen

Bill's probably stuffing a turkey on top of everything else... Thanksgiving (US holiday) is only 3 days away :-d

Excitedly waiting nevertheless!


----------



## White Tuna

gnome666 said:


> I think we should all take a deep breath and cut Bill a little slack. Let's remember he's just one guy juggling a ton of different projects (plus remeber I'm sure he has a family life too). If he was working on your watch, I'm sure you'd rather him spend the extra time making it a great piece rather than rushing through it to upload the gmt dial renderings..... I'm as eager as everyone else but let's put it on perspective.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would rather say not to have high expectations. Despite being a purveyor of fine time pieces Bill does not seem to operate on a strict timetable. I have seen people who expect this crash against the rocks whilst believing in the siren song.


----------



## Plat0

They're up! I didn't realize there would be a non-gilt option. Not that I would entertain that option anyway...


----------



## JFingers

*drool!

edit: the recently released _design_ images made me super excited about the Key West again. Especially...

... the white pepsi one, but the black gilt pepsi might just be perfect. Oh decisions, decisions. The black gilt might just be too similar to my Kingston, though ...

edit: the new _design_ images look great!

Blue skies, y'all!
-only jake


----------



## POR901

IMO this is perfect.....


----------



## Chromejob

Ahem. *Design thread* ... not _I'm impatient to buy_ thread. Sheesh. Post General Order discussion in the appropriate thread(s). This is why it's so hard for people to find design decisions in this thread, it's polluted with _non-design discussions._ o|

Yes, the Project GMT page now has an image of dial renderings. => Project GMT

For those too lazy to click:










I recall that Bill said that the lume markers could be different colours (not necessarily the lume, but the daylight color)[1] on the white and the black dials. I rather like this. 

[1] My understanding is that the luminescent color (C3, BGW9) is not the same as the foundation color you see in the light.


----------



## Darwin

OMG - I'm in serious trouble...


----------



## mrklabb

Darwin said:


> OMG - I'm in serious trouble...


Right! Only limited to two when there are six legitimate options! Lol


----------



## Pentameter

Very cool… I love the white gilt w/ pepsi bezel, but on the black dial I think I actually prefer the white print & pepsi bezel. I REALLY like it actually… I'm surprised. Was only planning on getting one but I may have to get both…


----------



## Khoi Nguyen

Great options here! Loving both the black gilt dials. 

What should I say to the wife if I buy two designs??

"You look amazing tonight."
"I'll set up on the couch."
"Domestic abuse is illegal..."


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Pentameter said:


> Very cool&#8230; I love the white gilt w/ pepsi bezel, but on the black dial I think I actually prefer the white print & pepsi bezel. I REALLY like it actually&#8230;* I'm surprised. Was only planning on getting one but I may have to get both*&#8230;


 How Many?? ;-)








I'm _planked_ for one, figured on buying one other and *Now*???








Bill has surprised (and amazed) us _*again!*_

:think: I'm thinking....thinking...... :think:

:think: _There is going to be some heavy-duty 'explaining' going on around here...._ :roll:

I just hope I can pass the






'red face' test....
















*FYI:* _There are larger individual images of each dial/bezel combination loaded in the slide show visible on this page:_

Pre-order 50% Deposit: Project GMT - Project GMT - Limited Edition Series


----------



## Dragoon

Cmon Jake! These pieces really are designed to sell as a matched pair! You gotta get a white dial and black dial pepsi with gilt. What a freaking amazing looking selection of mouth watering offerings.

Just incredible.

I may just sell the rest of my watches!!!! (except my MKII's)



JFingers said:


> *drool!
> 
> edit: the recently released _design_ images made me super excited about the Key West again. Especially...
> 
> ... the white pepsi one, but the black gilt pepsi might just be perfect. Oh decisions, decisions. The black gilt might just be too similar to my Kingston, though ...
> 
> edit: the new _design_ images look great!
> 
> Blue skies, y'all!
> -only jake


----------



## Thieuster

Yessssssss!

Black gilt pepsi for me (bottom row in the middle). No doubt!

The design is -once again- fabulous. As said, the gilt dial looks like the Kingston. But on the other hand, it shows the MKII 'signature'! The non gilt/black looks amazing as well. The white dial is not for me. Beautiful, but not on my wrist, I think.

Thanks Bill for showing us! 

Menno

EDIT: We should set up a special thread with one-liner suggestions 'How To Bring It To My My Wife When You Buy tTwo.... sort of online self-help group for MKII customers... I think we need that. Soon.

M.


----------



## Jfha1210

Thieuster said:


> Yessssssss!
> 
> Black gilt pepsi for me (bottom row in the middle). No doubt!
> 
> Thanks Bill for showing us!
> 
> Menno


The same model for me, please... 

JH iPhone


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Thieuster said:


> Yessssssss!
> 
> Black gilt pepsi for me (bottom row in the middle). No doubt!
> 
> The design is -once again- fabulous. As said, the gilt dial looks like the Kingston. But on the other hand, it shows the MKII 'signature'! The non gilt/black looks amazing as well. The white dial is not for me. Beautiful, but not on my wrist, I think.
> 
> Thanks Bill for showing us!
> 
> Menno
> 
> EDIT: We should set up a special thread with one-liner suggestions 'How To Bring It To My My Wife When You Buy Two.... sort of online self-help group for MKII customers... I think we need that. Soon.
> 
> M.











_"........ I... I...I can't explain it....., I don't know why three showed up when I only ordered one..... Honest....!!........"

_








N....Yahhh....... She'll never buy that.... :-d


----------



## cpotters

Chromejob said:


> Yes, the Project GMT page now has an image of dial renderings. => Project GMT
> 
> For those too lazy to click:


It's nice to see everyone getting so revved up again.... clearly we're getting into the home stretch here. You know you're getting close when you start shopping for alternative leather straps ("...ooh, yeah. the black shagreen strap will look great with..." ).


----------



## BigHaole

Chromejob said:


> I recall that Bill said that the lume markers could be different colours (not necessarily the lume, but the daylight color)[1] on the white and the black dials. I rather like this.
> 
> [1] My understanding is that the luminescent color (C3, BGW9) is not the same as the foundation color you see in the light.


C3 is florescent green when lumed, very pale off-white green, in daylight.
BGW0 is florescent baby blue, when lumed, straight white, in daylight.

I'm very happy with the black face, gilt, Pepsi color scheme. The 24-hour triangle looks the perfect size, not the tiny one on the original, and not the cartoonishly oversized one on the current model. I would have loved a cyclops and sapphire bezel, but I understand the limitations. Looking forward to seeing some prototypes!


----------



## 66Cooper

These are GREAT!!! 

I think I'm 90% sure I am going with the black gilt Pepsi config. I am VERY interested to see what the white dial actually looks like in the end though. Keeping an open mind on it just in case Maybe Plank I orders can get the option of a second dial???? For a price of course.


----------



## jussi

....SEE!!! all it took was a little nudge and look at all the buzz it created! 

Great work Bill! 
-now I'll have something to look at every night before I shut My eyes..

looks like it will be black dial, gilt w. pepsi bezel for me...

..or maby a black dial, gilt w. coke bezel... or should I just go for the white dial pepsi... hmmmm...???? decisions, decisions... 

maby best just try getting in on some Go's to, easier on the mind, but lighter in the wallet..


----------



## Darwin

Gilt on black dial and pepsi bezel FTW!


----------



## White Tuna

Darwin said:


> Gilt on black dial and pepsi bezel FTW!


They are all 100% win.


----------



## MHe225

Bill did say that the Plank kit would contain the other bezel and both alternative dials, right?

If we repeat this often enough, it becomes true, no?

Ah well, one can dream. Renders look fabulous and I'm not that certain about my choice anymore: I was set on white-gilt & pepsi but seeing black-gilt & pepsi ..... Maybe I need to try my luck with G.O. too


----------



## Chromejob

I had been toying with getting the white dial as it would truly be a _rara avis_, but after seeing vintage pieces, I can see that Bill's black - gilt - Pepsi will be a superlative homage to the original. If you haven't seen a Kingston in the flesh, even the finest pics by members here can't quite capture the beauty of the gilt dial in motion. Trust me. It's like Audrey Hepburn, McQueen's '56 XKSS, and a Lockheed L-1049 Super Connie rolled up into one sun-drenched afternoon. Nothing less than a Kingston would suit the fantasy moment.

If the white-on-black is done glossy as the 3-6-9 Nassau was done, it will look oh so gosh darned crisp. I haven't see any "shimmer" from the printing method, but under watchmaker's glasses the precision of the markings is impressive. The color quality catches even low-level light (no, I don't think I'm mistaking lume for reflectivity). The crisp dial printing floats above the glossy dial. No kidding, under a loupe I can see a reflection of the _rehaut_ in the dial, and the chapter ring suspended in between. It's eerie.

These really are a lot of watch for the money. I'm almost tempted to GO for a white-on-black Coke variant, but ... I want others to enjoy this. Whichever you decide upon, you're going to get a thing of beauty.


----------



## 66Cooper

So, refresh my memory on what will be different from the plank orders vs the GO? Meaning, will the white dial or gilt printing only be an LE feature. I know that the case back will be special for LEs but what else??


----------



## Pentameter

MHe225 said:


> Bill did say that the Plank kit would contain the other bezel and both alternative dials, right?
> 
> If we repeat this often enough, it becomes true, no?
> 
> Ah well, one can dream. Renders look fabulous and I'm not that certain about my choice anymore: I was set on white-gilt & pepsi but seeing black-gilt & pepsi ..... Maybe I need to try my luck with G.O. too


I'm not certain, but the site says extra bezel & insert&#8230; nothing about an extra dial anywhere that I can see.


----------



## messenius

It looks like white dial lume is a bit greenish - so C3 perhaps? (which is not my favourite


----------



## 66Cooper

The way I was thinking, a white dial with gilt and white lume would look like a snow-out at some angles. You wouldn't see a thing!!


----------



## mrklabb

messenius said:


> It looks like white dial lume is a bit greenish - so C3 perhaps? (which is not my favourite


I was hoping white with bgw9 but I will defer to Bill. He knows best.


----------



## Thieuster

66Cooper said:


> The way I was thinking, a white dial with gilt and white lume would look like a snow-out at some angles. You wouldn't see a thing!!


I am not into the white dial version, so it didn't cross my mind. But perhaps you're right. I think we should ask Bill to build one and take pics of the completed watch under various angles. That will make it easier to choose.

Menno


----------



## gnome666

I love the way the gilt Kingston looks, but based on the mockups my preferred setup (Pepsi and black dial) looks more coherent in white indices IMHO. But maybe in real life it will look different. It would be nice, if possible, to see the real setup before committing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

Details of the plank owner kit are here.


----------



## messenius

66Cooper said:


> The way I was thinking, a white dial with gilt and white lume would look like a snow-out at some angles. You wouldn't see a thing!!


You might be right but on this case I would prefer looks over functionality. To me the white dial is a dressier version of GMT


----------



## cobrajetjoe

gnome666 said:


> I love the way the gilt Kingston looks, but based on the mockups my preferred setup (Pepsi and black dial) looks more coherent in white indices IMHO. But maybe in real life it will look different. It would be nice, if possible, to see the real setup before committing.


I agree, think I'm feeling the non gilt a little more. Tough decision though.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## MHe225

Pentameter said:


> I'm not certain, but the site says extra bezel & insert&#8230; nothing about an extra dial anywhere that I can see.






Chromejob said:


> Details of the plank owner kit are here.


Okay, I was being facetious / the risk of joking in written text. There was never mention of an extra dial, but it's something that has been suggested and discussed and hoped for 1 or 2 years ago. Sorry guys and apologies for wasting your time / getting you excited.
Still, it would be a great idea, no? Maybe we can convince Mr. Yao? There is upside too as it makes for easier planning: no "sharp-shooting / guessing or waiting for the number of each dial to be produced: jus produce as many dials as watches. Free extra dials are not in the budget, I bet.


----------



## TheDude

Just seeing these now. Cool. 

The purist in me wants a gilt dial with silver hands. Just as God and Rolex intended. 😁

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

MHe225 said:


> Okay, I was being facetious / the risk of joking in written text. There was never mention of an extra dial, but it's something that has been suggested and discussed and hoped for 1 or 2 years ago. Sorry guys and apologies for wasting your time / getting you excited.
> Still, it would be a great idea, no? Maybe we can convince Mr. Yao? There is upside too as it makes for easier planning: no "sharp-shooting / guessing or waiting for the number of each dial to be produced: jus produce as many dials as watches. Free extra dials are not in the budget, I bet.


No. Because when you type something like this some people take it as fact and run with it and never let it go.


----------



## eganwh

I wish it would have been a Kingston option.


----------



## Chromejob

Plank owners with all the parts have this option IIRC.


// Tapatalk for iOS //


----------



## Khoi Nguyen

gnome666 said:


> I love the way the gilt Kingston looks, but based on the mockups my preferred setup (Pepsi and black dial) looks more coherent in white indices IMHO. But maybe in real life it will look different. It would be nice, if possible, to see the real setup before committing.





cobrajetjoe said:


> I agree, think I'm feeling the non gilt a little more. Tough decision though.


Yeah, thought the same - Pepsi+white indices definitely go together, while the gilt works naturally with Coke.

But then I see these beautiful examples and bingo... Pepsi+Gilt for me. Feels good to finally be at peace! :-d















[This photo lifted from here.]


----------



## Axelay2003

Blink of an eye......gone. Wow.


----------



## Darwin

Yup. I added to cart and tried to pay but it was sold out... of course I was on my cell at a hockey game (son's team had 16 penalty minutes but still won 6-2 )...

Sent from my LG-D803 using Tapatalk


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## timeturner7

Very happy to get in on this round. I suppose this means I get the LE caseback?

For those who got half way through the process and still have them in the cart.....i had this from October round. Just hit refresh when ordering opens next time and you are one step ahead!!!

Good luck to all and congratulations to the lucky few this round.

Can not wait for this watch.


----------



## Chromejob

*This is, ahem, THE DESIGN THREAD. Not an ordering thread. (tell me if I'm wrong)*

I had a professor once who prohibited "blurts" in his classroom. Don't know what a blurt is? He explained it thus: "A _blurt_ is a statement or question that is yelled out the minute it occurs to the owner. It indicates a lack of self-control or intellectual discipline. ... Don't just _blurt out _ something, wait for your turn, or a break in the discussion, or raise your hand, or something. _Blurts_ will be ignored, just as the person who makes the blurt will be ignored for the remainder of the class." Yeah, he was a grump, but this grump had a lot of material to cover in his 90 minutes evening class sessions.

My suggestion: find the proper topic to post your blurt, not just the first Key West topic you can find, or the one at the top of the page, or the most recent one you participated in. This one's stickied for a reason, and it's not to collect _blurts_ like bugs on a windscreen driving through the desert. Okay? Humbug.


----------



## Axelay2003

*Re: This is, ahem, THE DESIGN THREAD. Not an ordering thread. (tell me if I'm wrong)*



Chromejob said:


> I had a professor once who prohibited "blurts" in his classroom. Don't know what a blurt is? He explained it thus: "A _blurt_ is a statement or question that is yelled out the minute it occurs to the owner. It indicates a lack of self-control or intellectual discipline. ... Don't just _blurt out _ something, wait for your turn, or a break in the discussion, or raise your hand, or something. _Blurts_ will be ignored, just as the person who makes the blurt will be ignored for the remainder of the class." Yeah, he was a grump, but this grump had a lot of material to cover in his 90 minutes evening class sessions.
> 
> My suggestion: find the proper topic to post your blurt, not just the first Key West topic you can find, or the one at the top of the page, or the most recent one you participated in. This one's stickied for a reason, and it's not to collect _blurts_ like bugs on a windscreen driving through the desert. Okay? Humbug.


Well, you are right, but you could have stated this a long time ago between pages 80-100. Lots of blurts.

Since you started one for the Kingston, why not go ahead and start one for the GMT?


----------



## Chromejob

Axelay2003 said:


> Well, you are right, but you could have stated this a long time ago between pages 80-100. Lots of blurts.
> 
> Since you started one for the Kingston, why not go ahead and start one for the GMT?


I HAVE posted this before; wake up. And there are already threads for general ordering the Key West, perhaps you didn't notice THE LINK in my post?


----------



## lipjin

So glad to have got in on the order. The white dial Pepsi gilt is the quintessential Pan Am watch. But I am also digging the Pepsi black gilt dial and would like a coke thrown in as well! Decisions decisions


----------



## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> I HAVE posted this before; wake up. And there are already threads for general ordering the Key West, perhaps you didn't notice THE LINK in my post?


*GET OFF MY LAWN!*


----------



## mrklabb

lipjin said:


> So glad to have got in on the order. The white dial Pepsi gilt is the quintessential Pan Am watch. But I am also digging the Pepsi black gilt dial and would like a coke thrown in as well! Decisions decisions


I agree. I could make an argument for all three dials...I wonder if he will do the non gilt dial in another follow up model a la Nassau? Anyways, I think right now white dial is slightly ahead of black gilt in my order as it is so unique, both with Pepsi bezel I think. And I mean hey, if the white doesn't work for me I'm sure I could get the wife off my ass and let her wear it.

Anyone have pics of non gilt Kingston? I have a 369 Nassau, will it play similar to that?


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## 66Cooper

Funny, my wife is all for the white dial. I'm on the fence but I know it would be the one watch that she would actually want to wear.


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## gnome666

Definitely intrigued by the white dial, and I'm assuming it would look good in real life, but those renderings make it APPEAR to be almost illegible....if only funds were unlimited.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

As I said before, a gilt white dial will have a "snow out" effect in certain light. From the renderings it looks like the white dial has C3 lume though. If that's not the case and it uses the more pure white lume, it's will be interesting to say the least.


----------



## vespajg

I've searched this thread all I'm going to for the answer to my question. There was some early discussion of the shade of blue to be used on the Pepsi dial, but I can't find a definitive statement as to whether a decision was reached one way or the other. Dark or medium blue? Not so sure my monitor displays colors all that well re the recent mock-ups, which appear on the lighter side. 

So, I'm wondering if a final decision was reached or if this is a decision to be made by Bill as the bezel inserts enter production? Or have they already been produced? In which case, it'd be great to see an example as we did with the DW.


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> As I said before, a gilt white dial will have a "snow out" effect in certain light. From the renderings it looks like the white dial has C3 lume though. If that's not the case and it uses the more pure white lume, it's will be interesting to say the least.


You will still be able to see the hands and the lume will look slightly different because even if it is the exact some color as the dial it will not reflect light the same and it may cast shadows. I still think it will be usable. Also, even though the Kingston's gilt disappears in certain light a slight rotation of the wrist makes it all good again.


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## Axelay2003

Chromejob said:


> I HAVE posted this before; wake up. And there are already threads for general ordering the Key West, perhaps you didn't notice THE LINK in my post?


First of all, I did notice your "link". I apologize that my sarcastic response to your ill appropriate response was too offensive for you.

Secondly, let's not be hypocrites and let's keep these "blurts" away from this thread.

Again, I apologize Mr. Moderator.


----------



## 66Cooper

Very true. It only takes the slightest angle change and the entire dial changes
I'm not even saying its a bad thing. A whiteout dial for a split second could look really cool. 
Was it stated what lume these dials will be getting? I am so used to my Kingston's C3, I wonder how I will cope with the change...at the very least it's something to show my wife and say, "see honey, the lume is a different color. Now I'm sure you can see why I simply HAD to have it."


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> Very true. It only takes the slightest angle change and the entire dial changes
> I'm not even saying its a bad thing. A whiteout dial for a split second could look really cool.
> Was it stated what lume these dials will be getting? I am so used to my Kingston's C3, I wonder how I will cope with the change...at the very least it's something to show my wife and say, "see honey, the lume is a different color. Now I'm sure you can see why I simply HAD to have it."


I am pretty sure the black dial will be BGW9. Bill stated this was his favorite in the Kingston. I have no idea what the white dial will have. Not the slightest. But I plan on getting it!


----------



## BigHaole

I think you get an interesting view of lume color issue, on the Tudor Black Bay (which I own). The red BB has a matte finish dial, rose gold hands and indices markers and C3 lume. That combination looks great together. The very light green daylight color of the lume, against the rose gold outlines, yields a vintage look, without the fake orange lume. It's a very "warm" treatment. On the blue BB, the dial is a glossy finish, the hands and indices markers are white, and the lume is BGW9. The look is completely different and is very cool and modern, on comparison. 

Originally, I was pushing for BGW9. Now I think I may need to see some more Kingston pictures, first.


----------



## Thieuster

*checking first if I'm on topic with this reply - don't want a slap on my hands...*

I prefer C3. My Kingston has C3 and my Tornek has BGW9. Great lumen as well, but it lacks the 'classic look' of the C3. And that's what I prefer on a watch like this.

Menno


----------



## TheDude

This was put to bed. It's white lume if I recall correctly. 

I'm admittedly biased though as I don't consider C3 to be attractive or classic. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Thieuster said:


> *checking first if I'm on topic with this reply - don't want a slap on my hands...*
> 
> I prefer C3. My Kingston has C3 and my Tornek has BGW9. Great lumen as well, but it lacks the 'classic look' of the C3. And that's what I prefer on a watch like this.
> 
> Menno


:-d -- I hear ya, Menno --

I agree with you. Here's why:









Kingston 048 in bright natural morning sunlight. Camera 'White Balance' is on auto. This is C3 Lume.

:think: (It doesn't look so green, does it?) It looks kind of 'eggshell' or 'off-white' -- Somewhat 'Aged' without being artificially colored or aged....









Then after a very brief exposure to the sunlight, look at this 'Lume performance'..... :-!









And this is outside. The sun is a bit higher and brighter now, and not filtered through a window. I haven't altered the 'white-balance' in the photo.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*I would not turn down either lume*, but I prefer C3 over the BGW9.

In my experience, the BGW9 looks to be a brilliant white about 85% of the time. Other times it can take on a faint blue-ish tint that makes the surface look dirty or a faint dull-grey, if the light level is low.

On the Kingston dial, the BGW9 can look dull and grey for a long time before that blue glow makes it out. And that just does not appeal to me.

I prefer the C3 on this type of dial. Maybe it is the way that it agrees with the gilt..._I don't quite know how to phrase or express it._* I just know it looks better to me.*

_Of course, this is just one fellow's opinion_ - Your Mileage May Vary....







-- It is an *'Informed'* opinion though _(I own every variation of Kingston dial and lume, so I have experienced them *all* first hand....)_ Again, IMHO

-- My Best to All --

|> |>

btw; For comparison, All of the photos posted here show BGW9 Lume on the Kingston Dial- New here....a bit confused (and a little disappointed) - Page 2


----------



## BigHaole

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> View attachment 2207146
> -- It is an *'Informed'* opinion though _(I own every variation of Kingston dial and lume, so I have experienced them *all* first hand....)_ Again, IMHO


First, let me say, "Damn! That's a lot of Kingston watches!"

Second, let me request, could we get side-by-side pics of the Kingston Gilt C3 and Kingston Gilt BGW9?


----------



## 66Cooper

Yeah, that's is an awful lot of kingston. How many exactly? Have you posted a family pic of them all?


----------



## Chromejob

Ask and ye shall receive. Though this was received in 2012 originally.



















And recently, though this was at night under warmer lights (not daylight or pure white):










I still believe that I heard from authoritative sources that the daytime color of the lume compound is not 100% determined by the color grade of the Super LumiNova mixed in. It's _two compounds_. I've got several watches with C3 that in bright light the compounds are not the same shade of green. E.g. I have a O&W M4 with C3 that the compound is more yellow-white. I don't think it's ever looked green. Also, my Nassau's BGW9 does not look as "bright white" as my Kingston's. It's more a "winter white" or "eggshell white," which I like and surely hope is repeated on the KW. It's in Bill's hands though.

The C3 Kingston doing a little cosplay:












66Cooper said:


> Yeah, that's is an awful lot of kingston. How many exactly? Have you posted a family pic of them all?


He has, I think (check the "family portrait" thread). It's a circus. A lovely, wonderful circus.

Don't say I never did nothin' fer ya.


----------



## Pentameter

It all comes down to color harmony. On the Kingston, C3 is by far the most harmonious w/ the Gilt dial & red pip (ESPECIALLY on a Bond NATO). Looking forward to the Key West, the blue Pepsi bezel may make BGW9 more agreeable, but I think when it comes to the beautiful golden / brown Gilt markings, the greenish / off-white hue of C3 will ALWAYS fit best.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> First, let me say, " -Damn! That's a lot of Kingston watches!"
> 
> Second, let me request, could we get side-by-side pics of the Kingston Gilt C3 and Kingston Gilt BGW9?


'Soitanly....'  BTW, Thanks Chromejob.... Great Set above!..... :-!

Kingston 048 is: C3; Bond Bezel; Gilt Date Dial
Kingston 163 is: BGW9, Bond Bezel; Gilt Dial

The color of the ambient light makes a huge difference in how these appear. It is getting dark with a cloudy sky now.....

Kingston 048 and Kingston 163 side-by-side....








And again....








quickie lume shot - no exposure adjustment....








quickie lume shot - Exposure compensated +2 ......








_Really....We need to see the actual photos of the actual dials that are going to be used on this Project_.

*I know those will come with time...... *









So....I hope this makes the *Waiting* easier.....:-d

-- Best --

|>|>


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

66Cooper said:


> Yeah, that's is an awful lot of Kingston. How many exactly? Have you posted a family pic of them all?


 I have _seven_ of the dang things. Yes, I posted a poor shot one day just before it started to rain on me. I think Chromejob linked above....:roll:

<< Edit >> Oops.......Here is the link to the previous posting...... ===> My MkII family - Page 2

I can't do a complete Kingston group shot right now, because Kingston 029 is 'in the Shop' for a lube job and spa treatment.....after all, it is coming up on four years old, and judging by the damage on it, I couldn't tell how hard of a life it has had before I got it.

So into the 'Shop' it went....... :-d

-- Best --

|>|>


----------



## TheDude

Again, I think the ship has sailed for the lume. This is the last thing Bill had to say about it and there were plenty who voiced support for his plan.

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=6171842

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> Again, I think the ship has sailed for the lume. This is the last thing Bill had to say about it and there were plenty who voiced support for his plan.
> 
> Project GMT: Design thread - Page 32


TheDude, that post was from over a year and a half ago, and the language Bill used was (emphasis added my me):

For the lume I _*would suggest*_ as noted earlier as well:

* White dial: Natural or C3 lume
* Black dial: BGW9
​
While I would not argue with whatever decision Bill makes, I did not read that as "a decision has been made". If he comes back and tells us he has made a decision, then great. But until then, there is no harm in us speculating and discussing.


----------



## TheDude

BigHaole said:


> TheDude, that post was from over a year and a half ago, and the language Bill used was (emphasis added my me):
> 
> For the lume I _*would suggest*_ as noted earlier as well:
> 
> * White dial: Natural or C3 lume
> * Black dial: BGW9
> ​
> While I would not argue with whatever decision Bill makes, I did not read that as "a decision has been made". If he comes back and tells us he has made a decision, then great. But until then, there is no harm in us speculating and discussing.


I agree with your assessment of the timeline but I would be careful dismissing the information for this reason.

We have no other updated information from him since then. Until we do, there's a high probability that he continued forward after receiving feedback on his original suggestions.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

Thanks Dude for got back through all that to find that. 
I half remember but it was more about the BGW9 only. I forgot he said natural or C3 for the white dial....which make perfect sense after seeing the mock up pic. I'd say that's all set in stone by now as well


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: Well....We can still hope..... ;-)

As I said before. Before I make my final selection(s) -- (if it turns out that way) .... :roll:

I'll need to see the actual good, high quality photos of the actual dials, hands and bezels assembled to a watch with the crystal in place.

Having said that, I also know that there will be some aspects of the whole thing, that won't be apparent to me until I'm wearing it on my wrist..... 









*-- Patience is a virtue -- *

Ha Ha ha.....

|>|>


----------



## BigHaole

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> ...Before I make my final selection(s)...


Planning to get all 6 versions of the KeyWest, to go with your full suite of Kingstons? :-d


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> Planning to get all 6 versions of the KeyWest, to go with your full suite of Kingstons? :-d


I have thought about getting more than the two I *originally had approved* by the "CFO" (the lovely Lady who lets me live with her).

She actually didn't seem opposed to three, but so far, I can't seem to justify it to myself...... There are *some limits*..... :-d:-d:-d

_Devil on my left shoulder....Angel on my right!_ :-d:-d

-- Best --

ps. I am fairly certain the Kingston population will be thinned somewhat......But not just yet.


----------



## Darwin

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Ips. I am fairly certain the Kingston population will be thinned somewhat......But not just yet.


OCM - we're practically neighbours! Please don't forget about me when decide to cull your Kingstons... I just *know* that no one else has expressed any interest, right?! :-d But seriously, dude... please?


----------



## 66Cooper

I was just thinking. I know that the gilt process was very tricky with the kingston. If memory serves me, something like 50% were deemed unusable. The dials are plated in gold. A filmed is laid down and then the black is applied. Then dipped and film is removed, allowing gold to shine through. 

I think we can all agree they are a thing of beauty. My question is why not do that same process but with silver? I'd imagine a dial done that way with silver, and matching silver hands would be a stunner. 

Not saying anything should change with the way the KW is going but I was just sitting here thinking about it.


----------



## Pentameter

66Cooper said:


> My question is why not do that same process but with silver? I'd imagine a dial done that way with silver, and matching silver hands would be a stunner.
> 
> Not saying anything should change with the way the KW is going but I was just sitting here thinking about it.


I've had the same thought&#8230; I love gold but prefer silver, and a silver-gilt dial would be really awesome, IMHO. I'm hoping we see it on a MkII piece someday.


----------



## TheDude

I don't know... I think for a lot of reasons white gold or rhodium makes better sense if it's to be shiny. That's what Rolex uses for its hands and plot surrounds (white gold). The matte silver on the 369 is nice but lots different. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> I was just thinking. I know that the gilt process was very tricky with the kingston. If memory serves me, something like 50% were deemed unusable. The dials are plated in gold. A filmed is laid down and then the black is applied. Then dipped and film is removed, allowing gold to shine through.
> 
> I think we can all agree they are a thing of beauty. My question is why not do that same process but with silver? I'd imagine a dial done that way with silver, and matching silver hands would be a stunner.
> 
> Not saying anything should change with the way the KW is going but I was just sitting here thinking about it.


Bill discussed other colors in the past. I think black came up for the white dial and he stated they tried but that the black leaked out into the white (visibly, not an actual mix). Cause I think a metallic navy/black would have been fantastic.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: Silver is very reactive as a metal coating or plating. It has to be almost immediately protected or it will visibly tarnish or corrode.

I think that it could be very demanding to work with, resulting in a very high rejection rate. 

On the other hand, gold is among the least reactive of the metals, and it is relatively easy to work with. 

Not easily attacked by acids or other substances, gold and alloys are very stable, lending themslves to a multi-step plating or production processes. 

That's one reason why it is worth so much..... ;-)

-- Best --


----------



## 66Cooper

So why wouldn't white gold work then? 

Still, being a HUGE gold gilt fan I'd probably still go for that as an option. I honestly can hardly stand to take my kingston off. My poor other watches. All so sad


----------



## Pentameter

I didn't mean to suggest it had to be ACTUAL silver, just silver-toned… white gold, platinum… whatever makes the most sense logistically.


----------



## 66Cooper

Gotcha. Learn something new every day here


----------



## Thieuster

My Rolex 14060 has white gold edges (so I was told recently - correct me if I'm wrong) around the hour markers. Looks good, but the gilt of my Kingston looks better. 

Menno


----------



## Pentameter

I should also add… I don't know that I could ever turn down a Gilt dial, but having a shiny silver-gilt option would ALSO be awesome (not to mention the perfect excuse to get another watch!)


----------



## White Tuna

White face with metallic blue could be very awesome.


----------



## rmassony

Pentameter said:


> I didn't mean to suggest it had to be ACTUAL silver, just silver-toned&#8230; white gold, platinum&#8230; whatever makes the most sense logistically.


It's funny, I actually started writing a post about this yesterday and then got distracted. I already have a gilt Kingston, so I'm intrigued by the non-gilt option on the Key West. I've re-read a lot of this thread, and I haven't figured out exactly what it's going to be. Is it going to be like the matte dial Kingston? Is it going to be glossy/white silver like the 369 Nassau? I'm assuming it's not going to be a silvery/white gold gilt (this is the first time I've come across the idea), but I agree that would be incredible. I assume that this is something that is already baked into the cake, so to speak, so we're just going to have to wait for Bill to tell us what he's done.


----------



## mrklabb

rmassony said:


> It's funny, I actually started writing a post about this yesterday and then got distracted. I already have a gilt Kingston, so I'm intrigued by the non-gilt option on the Key West. I've re-read a lot of this thread, and I haven't figured out exactly what it's going to be. Is it going to be like the matte dial Kingston? Is it going to be glossy/white silver like the 369 Nassau? I'm assuming it's not going to be a silvery/white gold gilt (this is the first time I've come across the idea), but I agree that would be incredible. I assume that this is something that is already baked into the cake, so to speak, so we're just going to have to wait for Bill to tell us what he's done.


This! I thought there would be a white dial and a black gilt dial. I am intrigued by the third dial option.


----------



## TheDude

Thieuster said:


> My Rolex 14060 has white gold edges (so I was told recently - correct me if I'm wrong) around the hour markers. Looks good, but the gilt of my Kingston looks better.
> 
> Menno


The hands are white gold too. It's a noble metal in the chemistry sense of the word.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_metal

White gold as we know is white because it has other non-gold elements in it. I think Bill has rhodium plated hands in some of the MkII watches which is effectively just as good.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

rmassony said:


> It's funny, I actually started writing a post about this yesterday and then got distracted. I already have a gilt Kingston, so I'm intrigued by the non-gilt option on the Key West. I've re-read a lot of this thread, and I haven't figured out exactly what it's going to be. Is it going to be like the matte dial Kingston? Is it going to be glossy/white silver like the 369 Nassau? I'm assuming it's not going to be a silvery/white gold gilt (this is the first time I've come across the idea), but *I* *agree* *that* *would* *be* *incredible*.* I assume that this is something that is already baked into the cake, so to speak, so we're just going to have to wait for Bill to tell us what he's done*.


:think: I think you hit the nail on the head here, so-to-speak. 

I am preparing myself for another surprise on this one... b-)

:think: We just won't know more until those details are revealed by _*the Man*_ himself, I guess........ ;-)

:roll: Yup, the glossy dial with white-gold indices and yellow gold gilt hands..... _Dreaming again_....... 

-- Best --

_ps. The appearance of the "third dial" with rhodium-plated hands and white-or-silvered dial markings completely threw all of this and my choices (which two to pick.....)

Now completely up in the air......_ :-d


----------



## Chromejob

66Cooper said:


> I was just thinking. I know that the gilt process was very tricky with the kingston. If memory serves me, something like 50% were deemed unusable. The dials are plated in gold. A filmed is laid down and then the black is applied. Then dipped and film is removed, allowing gold to shine through.
> 
> I think we can all agree they are a thing of beauty. My question is why not do that same process but with silver? I'd imagine a dial done that way with silver, and matching silver hands would be a stunner.
> 
> Not saying anything should change with the way the KW is going but I was just sitting here thinking about it.





Pentameter said:


> I've had the same thought&#8230; I love gold but prefer silver, and a silver-gilt dial would be really awesome, IMHO. I'm hoping we see it on a MkII piece someday.


I'd have to go back to the 3-6-9 Nassau thread(s) again (and I'm way too tired), but I believe the 3-6-9 dial is done this with with silver or similar. The dial is glossy. But the silver is "blasted" to be matte, near-white. Hands are rhodium IIRC.

This is why I hemmed and hawed for a couple of weeks and then ordered. I really admire how the glossy black dials are almost negative, they're such a deep black. My Nassau didn't dissapoint. I'm wearing a Steinhart OBDLC at the moment, and the matte dial, white printing, simple C3 markers,... just do not compare to the crisp, "pop" of the Nassau 3-6-9.

So ... we haven't heard that I know of, but the glossy black - white Key West dial may be done the same as the 3-6-9. And though it might not shimmer, you would not be disappointed.


----------



## 66Cooper

Thats interesting about 3-6-9 dials. I wasnt following that one but I do remember when I spoke with Bill way back at one of the GTG's, he explained that a lot of vintage "white" dialed watches were actually silver that was etched. Etched silver gives a white appearance. I think we were discussing a possible "Moby" dialed Kingston or something. Might be how he actually did the one he actually has. I guess we will see soon.


----------



## gnome666

So, I was pleased to see these pictures in a different forum, but I think they will answer many questions as to how the gilt black Pepsi setup will look like. Obviously the case and crown will be different, but I thought these pics were helpful for me to visualize how the key west may look. Btw, I pm'd the original poster and he gave me permission to post these here, so thanks to him









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

Conceptually, these (Tiger) are similar, but the gilt dials are simply printed gilt. They pale in comparison to the gilt Kingston's. It's hard to describe, the difference, but those who have seen and held the Gilt Kingston's know what I mean.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheDude

Arthur said:


> Conceptually, these (Tiger) are similar, but the gilt dials are simply printed gilt. They pale in comparison to the gilt Kingston's. It's hard to describe, the difference, but those who have seen and held the Gilt Kingston's know what I mean.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That and it's a jumbled mishmash of vintage cues. Definitely feeling the "Frankenwatch" qualities.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

I surely hope that the KW bezel is darker, not bright colors like the 1675. Arthur's right, there is a huge difference between gilt and printed gold. If you stare at enough Kingston pics, you can see how the printing plays peekaboo like metal hands do. 

But yes, as a general indication of how the colors will complement each other, that's in the ballpark.


----------



## tmoris

TheDude said:


> That and it's a jumbled mishmash of vintage cues. Definitely feeling the "Frankenwatch" qualities.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


My thought entirely.. its all wrong, hard to say where to begin..

Suffice to say.. everything is wrong..


----------



## gnome666

tmoris said:


> My thought entirely.. its all wrong, hard to say where to begin..
> 
> Suffice to say.. everything is wrong..


Geeeeez. I didn't expect people to be so damn critical. I know it's not "perfect" or a true recreation, but for me it was nice to see how the color combos may work in real life rather than rendering. Plus, while I'm sure we can all agree that the tiger dial is nowhere near as nice as the KW will certainly be, I give much respect to the guy that sourced all the parts and put it together himself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

gnome666 said:


> Geeeeez. I didn't expect people to be so damn critical. I know it's not "perfect" or a true recreation, but for me it was nice to see how the color combos may work in real life rather than rendering. Plus, while I'm sure we can all agree that the tiger dial is nowhere near as nice as the KW will certainly be, I give much respect to the guy that sourced all the parts and put it together himself.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You came to the wrong forum if you do not want people to be critical. LOL

But I have no problem with your post and appreciate it. At least it was on topic for this thread so according to my chart you start with +1 point. Gilt nets you +5 but you get -3 for printed. You came out ahead in the on topic score card and thus there will be no long term consequences to your post.

But we're watching!


----------



## STEELINOX

You guys realize we're talking about a few pictures, right?

[EDIT: "that are as White Tuna said, still was posted in relation to the Topic at hand]

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## jelliottz

As the builder of the watch in question, I can tell you I set out to have some fun in making it. I'm not trying to make a Key West or a 6542. I took some design cues and built a watch that I wanted. I'm surprised people are trying to look deeper than that.

I like big crowns. The small arrow GMT hand is a thing of beauty. I prefer a no date dial. I made a watch that I wanted to wear.

This uses a Chinese movement. No, the gilt printing on the dial isn't any where as good as the Kingston, and neither is the price. What is the KW going to sell for? $1500? $1700? I built this for $200.

I appreciate Gnome666 sharing my work here. He was showing an actual watch that may give you an idea of what the KW could look like instead of a computer generated render. I guess I'm surprised to hear the people saying "that's wrong." Its hard to be wrong when its built exactly the way I wanted it built.

Might as well mash another vintage cue on for everyone.


----------



## Arthur

I can't speak for everyone, but the Tiger dialed watch in question was not being criticized per se, but was simply a comparison between the gilt printed dial and the gilt dial used in the Kingston. 
I have the utmost respect for those who have the skills to take a watch apart and repair and service movements and build watches from a box of parts. At the same time while i admire the skills, I may not necessarily love what is built.everyone has their idea as to what they like and dislike. Even with the MKII watches, there are some that I really, really like, some that leave me cold. So just because we say we don't like the watch doesn't mean that we don't admire the skill of the builder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tmoris

Seems I should explain what my "all wrong" actually means.

I regard the KW to be the new 6542 in which sense it needs to come as close to all those fine details as possible. And many of those fine details are not (and obviously cannot) be created in a watch for $200. That doesnt mean its wrong when someone decides thats how he wants it to be, which is perfectly ok. From my perspective it is very different from what a modern 6542 should look like, hence my statement. I am sorry, if this was offensive to you.


----------



## White Tuna

tmoris said:


> Seems I should explain what my "all wrong" actually means.
> 
> I regard the KW to be the new 6542 in which sense it needs to come as close to all those fine details as possible. And many of those fine details are not (and obviously cannot) be created in a watch for $200. That doesnt mean its wrong when someone decides thats how he wants it to be, which is perfectly ok. From my perspective it is very different from what a modern 6542 should look like, hence my statement. I am sorry, if this was offensive to you.


I understood your points and it was interesting but I think people are just anxious and posting similar watches to sooth the wait. I know this happened with the Kingston too. That is how I ended up with a Raven. :-!

No need to apologize either, we are family, family does not have to apologize. :-d


----------



## jelliottz

tmoris said:


> Seems I should explain what my "all wrong" actually means.
> 
> I regard the KW to be the new 6542 in which sense it needs to come as close to all those fine details as possible. And many of those fine details are not (and obviously cannot) be created in a watch for $200. That doesnt mean its wrong when someone decides thats how he wants it to be, which is perfectly ok. From my perspective it is very different from what a modern 6542 should look like, hence my statement. I am sorry, if this was offensive to you.


No worries and no hard feelings. I can completely understand the point of view from which you were commenting.



White Tuna said:


> tmoris said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems I should explain what my "all wrong" actually means.
> 
> I regard the KW to be the new 6542 in which sense it needs to come as close to all those fine details as possible. And many of those fine details are not (and obviously cannot) be created in a watch for $200. That doesnt mean its wrong when someone decides thats how he wants it to be, which is perfectly ok. From my perspective it is very different from what a modern 6542 should look like, hence my statement. I am sorry, if this was offensive to you.
> 
> 
> 
> I understood your points and it was interesting but I think people are just anxious and posting similar watches to sooth the wait. I know this happened with the Kingston too. That is how I ended up with a Raven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to apologize either, we are family, family does not have to apologize.
Click to expand...


----------



## 66Cooper

Well, might as well post this here as well. The illusive Moby Kingston. Giving us all, finally, a glimpse of what a white dialed MKII might actually look like.


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## gnome666

66Cooper said:


> Well, might as well post this here as well. The illusive Moby Kingston. Giving us all, finally, a glimpse of what a white dialed MKII might actually look like.


You read my mind









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gnome666

I didn't think gilt+white would work, but this is sure making me reconsider my initial preferred setup of Pepsi bezel black dial white indices......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

jelliottz said:


> As the builder of the watch in question, I can tell you I set out to have some fun in making it. I'm not trying to make a Key West or a 6542. I took some design cues and built a watch that I wanted. I'm surprised people are trying to look deeper than that....]





jelliottz said:


> No worries and no hard feelings. I can completely understand the point of view from which you were commenting...


Very sorry you got dragged into this. As mentioned, your watch was presented as a visualization , and I think any reactions were meant as "no, not how the Key West ought to appear." Anything else was a miscommunication or misunderstanding. Yours is great, better than any other I've seen.


----------



## BigHaole

gnome666 said:


> You read my mind


Maybe I need to see it with the Pepsi bezel, but I'm just not feeling the love for the white and gilt. I think I'll be going with the black dial. But, no harm in us all finding our own best versions. This is my first "project" watch and it's been an interesting experience. Cheers!


----------



## gwold

BigHaole said:


> Maybe I need to see it with the Pepsi bezel, but I'm just not feeling the love for the white and gilt. I think I'll be going with the black dial. But, no harm in us all finding our own best versions. This is my first "project" watch and it's been an interesting experience. Cheers!


I agree. The white/gilt and black doesn't work for me, on the Moby, and I don't think I'd like it with the Coke either. The combination feels like it'd be a mish-mash.

I do think the Pepsi could work well, with the white/gilt. That bezel feels like flash, and would benefit from this dial.


----------



## TheDude

jelliottz said:


> As the builder of the watch in question, I can tell you I set out to have some fun in making it. I'm not trying to make a Key West or a 6542. I took some design cues and built a watch that I wanted. I'm surprised people are trying to look deeper than that.
> 
> I like big crowns. The small arrow GMT hand is a thing of beauty. I prefer a no date dial. I made a watch that I wanted to wear.
> 
> This uses a Chinese movement. No, the gilt printing on the dial isn't any where as good as the Kingston, and neither is the price. What is the KW going to sell for? $1500? $1700? I built this for $200.
> 
> I appreciate Gnome666 sharing my work here. He was showing an actual watch that may give you an idea of what the KW could look like instead of a computer generated render. I guess I'm surprised to hear the people saying "that's wrong." Its hard to be wrong when its built exactly the way I wanted it built.
> 
> Might as well mash another vintage cue on for everyone.


Love the military "all blue" GMT bezel. I had lobbied Bill (unsuccessfully) for this option a long time ago...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## TheDude

http://100percent-rolex.blogspot.com/2010/06/i-am-feeling-blue.html?m=1



















Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> http://100percent-rolex.blogspot.com/2010/06/i-am-feeling-blue.html?m=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Blueberries and cream !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> Blueberries and cream !
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


That red hand is amazing too!

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

jelliottz said:


>


Really well done. I like the elegant hour markers, accurate (to 6542) 24h hand, etc.


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## Thieuster

STEELINOX said:


> Blueberries and cream !
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Lalalalalalalalaaaaaa! I have a few blue natos in the drawer. I'm convinced: my KW is going to be the Pepsi!

Menno


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## Chromejob

Hopefully I'm not belaboring the point, but for those of you who haven't held a Kingston, you may not be aware that the gilt really plays in the light. It's nothing like "gold printing" on the dial, or "gold paint." It's more like finely applied foil applique. Or the way gilt or rhodium hands "disappear" at a particular angle in soft indirect light, leaving only the lume to be seen.

Here's a pic I took that sort of conveys that. Note that the hour markers and chapter ring are invisible until the angle that catches the single, soft light source is _just right_.


----------



## DEV.Woulf

If Bill is doing these new dials the same as the Kingston, will the white dial also have the same "foil" effect? Will it be the same as the black dial or lessened? I love the white dial from that new picture but been wondering about this.


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## Chromejob

I believe the white dial will be gilt.


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## White Tuna

Devarika Woulf said:


> If Bill is doing these new dials the same as the Kingston, will the white dial also have the same "foil" effect? Will it be the same as the black dial or lessened? I love the white dial from that new picture but been wondering about this.


----------



## Pentameter

Devarika Woulf said:


> If Bill is doing these new dials the same as the Kingston, will the white dial also have the same "foil" effect? Will it be the same as the black dial or lessened? I love the white dial from that new picture but been wondering about this.


the Gilt "foil" effect should be the same on both dials, HOWEVER Gold is inherently bright, and the contrast between gold & white is significantly less than it is w/ black, so the overall effect will certainly be stronger on the black dial.


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## dr_sweatpants

Everyone seems to want the Pepsi bezel. Any love for the coke bezel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Pentameter said:


> the Gilt "foil" effect should be the same on both dials, HOWEVER Gold is inherently bright, and the contrast between gold & white is significantly less than it is w/ black, so the overall effect will certainly be stronger on the black dial.


:think: I think we'll just have to wait and see......








....And then.....









Here is some more 'gilt magic' --

:think: _I'm always seeing something new with these..._.
























:think: ....I have a very strong hunch my black-dial *Key West* will have the 'Coke' bezel....

But I'll wait to see more examples before I make that final choice.

_Either one won't be bad....._ ;-)

-- Best --









Reviewed and Approved by....









_(She made me do it....)_


----------



## gwold

dr_sweatpants said:


> Everyone seems to want the Pepsi bezel. Any love for the coke bezel?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sure. Black dial/Coke would likely be my choice (not sure about gilt vs white yet, though).

Yet mine is to be a gift, so what I order may end up different.


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## Chromejob

Gilt or sandblasted gilt or whatever ... I guarantee that Bill's gonna do what Bill's gonna do, and we will mostly like it. 

For my money, the gilt on white will be lovely, it will appear and disappear, very subtle like. 

If the white markings are done like those on the 3-6-9 Nassau, they won't glimmer. I've tried to get mine to do so, just won't happen. BUT ... the ultra-fine markings stand out against the gloss black dial when you can get the lighting right. 

OCM, thanks for reposting those. I'd forgotten -- for shame! -- that you'd taken some of the most exquisite pics of the Kingston dial. I cringe to imagine how hard you toiled and how much time you spent getting some that were just right.


----------



## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: I think we'll just have to wait and see......
> View attachment 2353802
> 
> 
> ....And then.....
> 
> View attachment 2353810
> 
> 
> Here is some more 'gilt magic' --
> 
> :think: _I'm always seeing something new with these..._.
> 
> :think: ....I have a very strong hunch my black-dial *Key West* will have the 'Coke' bezel....
> 
> But I'll wait to see more examples before I make that final choice.
> 
> _Either one won't be bad....._ ;-)
> 
> -- Best --
> 
> View attachment 2353834


Dear OmegaCosmicMan. You take fantastic pictures. Please dial down the border effects a little.

Yours truly,

Thunderball Kingston


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## Chromejob

Aw, let 'im 'ave 'is fun.

Thunderton Kingbowels, esq


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## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> Aw, let 'im 'ave 'is fun.
> 
> Thunderton Kingbowels, esq


I agree. I am not trying to slam him. Though I have been thinking about an intervention for a long time now regarding his use of so many fonts and smilies in one post.

I get it. He is a free spirit that lives in Alaska where he abides the will of no man but his own. But I am from the lower 48. I am part of a carefully constructed and regimented system that marches in step with The Man. It hurts me to see so many fonts and smilies and abrupt line breaks in one post.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

White Tuna said:


> I agree. I am not trying to slam him. Though I have been thinking about an intervention for a long time now regarding his use of so many fonts and smilies in one post.
> 
> I get it. He is a free spirit that lives in Alaska where he abides the will of no man but his own. But I am from the lower 48. I am part of a carefully constructed and regimented system that marches in step with The Man. It hurts me to see so many fonts and smilies and abrupt line breaks in one post.










(cue Frank singing..... _"....I gotta be me...."_ )










Good Day!


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## White Tuna

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> View attachment 2360674
> (cue Frank singing..... _"....I gotta be me...."_ )
> View attachment 2360674
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Day!


LOL! There is just so much wrong there. So much space. So few words. So many smilie's. LOL


----------



## 66Cooper

I have to agree. I usually look at this on my mobile and man do those post look strange on it. Also, I am a graphic designer so a small part of me dies a bit with each post. Hahaha. Whatevs though. Its what makes you you, right?


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## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> I have to agree. I usually look at this on my mobile and man do those post look strange on it. Also, I am a graphic designer so a small part of me dies a bit with each post. Hahaha. Whatevs though. Its what makes you you, right?


At least he is not using comic sans.


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## Chromejob

I'll tell you what I told OCM. 


DO NOT POKE THE BEAR.


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## Arthur

Guys, I think that what we need to do is step back and let things take their course. All we are doing is pretty much useless speculation. I expect that photos of the real dials will be forthcoming very shortly, and all our questions will be answered.At this point all aspects of the dial are probably decided on by Bill. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## supersmitty

So back to the topic of the Cyclops... I know I know... some love it and some HATE it... and God forbid I even mention this topic again for fear of "slowing down production" or some such nonsense.
But, my friends... I mention it none the less.

Judging by the various comments from those who seem to be in the MKII inner circle... are our beloved KeyWest won't come with that option though who can say for sure at this point. (Bill, if you're looking for late Xmas presents for your fans and fellow Philadelphians... offering the Cyclops as an option would be awesome!)


I do have a question however for those more learned than I... Should the 'clops' not be offered, and should one what to mod their KW with one, how would one go about that?
I understand that the crystal will be domed, similar to the Kingston/Nassau? One would need to find a cyclops to mirror that dome correct? What do you look for here? Do we know or will we be provided with the dimensions of the crystal so that we might look for a cyclops that would work?
Very little experience with this type of thing so I appreciate your knowledge, and patience... just trying to keep my dream of cyclopsed vanilla coke GMT alive.



All the best post Xmas and a Happy New Year to all!
Best
SS


----------



## cpotters

supersmitty said:


> So back to the topic of the Cyclops... I know I know... some love it and some HATE it... and God forbid I even mention this topic again for fear of "slowing down production" or some such nonsense.
> But, my friends... I mention it none the less.
> 
> Judging by the various comments from those who seem to be in the MKII inner circle... are our beloved KeyWest won't come with that option though who can say for sure at this point. (Bill, if you're looking for late Xmas presents for your fans and fellow Philadelphians... offering the Cyclops as an option would be awesome!)
> 
> I do have a question however for those more learned than I... Should the 'clops' not be offered, and should one what to mod their KW with one, how would one go about that?
> I understand that the crystal will be domed, similar to the Kingston/Nassau? One would need to find a cyclops to mirror that dome correct? What do you look for here? Do we know or will we be provided with the dimensions of the crystal so that we might look for a cyclops that would work?
> Very little experience with this type of thing so I appreciate your knowledge, and patience... just trying to keep my dream of cyclopsed vanilla coke GMT alive.
> 
> All the best post Xmas and a Happy New Year to all!
> Best
> SS


SS:

Plenty of people would like an answer to that, to to be fair, we'll just need to wait. For one, while it's unlikely, it may get a cyclops after all which makes the question moot. More likely however, is that it won't come with one, but once a bunch of us get our hands on it we'll voice an opinion or two as the best way to proceed. In either case you're still dependent on the delivery of the first run of these before an accurate answer will pop up. That's my guess, anyway.


----------



## gnome666

Keeping the thread alive while we wait for more concrete updates from the only man who has the answers.....pic appropriated from another thread here on WUS









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

gnome666 said:


> Keeping the thread alive while we wait for more concrete updates from the only man who has the answers.....pic appropriated from another thread here on WUS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't mention or link that thread. They have some serious Fight Club rules in effect.

BTW, where is OmegaCosmicMan? Did I break him? Is he attending the smiley face convention?


----------



## 66Cooper

Haven't you noticed?? He dialed back the edge effects. For me, it lets me really appreciate his great pix to their fullest.


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> Haven't you noticed?? He dialed back the edge effects. For me, it lets me really appreciate his great pix to their fullest.


OCM takes fantastic pictures.


----------



## gnome666

White Tuna said:


> Don't mention or link that thread. They have some serious Fight Club rules in effect.
> 
> BTW, where is OmegaCosmicMan? Did I break him? Is he attending the smiley face convention?


Serious? Didn't know I couldn't cross post. My apologies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jelliottz

White Tuna said:


> gnome666 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keeping the thread alive while we wait for more concrete updates from the only man who has the answers.....pic appropriated from another thread here on WUS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Don't mention or link that thread. They have some serious Fight Club rules in effect.
> 
> BTW, where is OmegaCosmicMan? Did I break him? Is he attending the smiley face convention?
Click to expand...

1st rule of Sub Homage Thread is we do not talk about Sub Homage Thread. 
2nd rule of Sub Homage Thread is we DO NOT TALK about Sub Homage Thread.

We do talk about things like this though.


----------



## BigHaole

OK, finally placed 2nd part of my deposit, along with requested serial #s. I'm really in this thing!


----------



## Maxy

I'm interested in this watch. Can someone help to pre-order it? Is it going to be $1395 or we still part of Plankowner Price of $1,195 ? What am I paying for?


----------



## 66Cooper

Wait, are you looking to purchase one or have you already placed an order? 
The plank orders sold out in about a day...about 2 or 3 years ago. There was a second sale for non-plank but that sold out in minutes as well


----------



## BigHaole

Maxy,

You should read this news article from the MKII site to understand the process for what are being called "2nd Stage Pre-Orders":
Project GMT: 2nd Stage Pre-order
Every month another 25 pre-order slots open up. So far, they have disappeared very quickly, but as demand is met, hopefully that will get easier for those still trying to buy one. You'll want to subscribe to the MKII mailing list to know when the window opens.

A new order would be for the full price and would include the watch, but not the extra bezel, which the plankowners will get.


----------



## Maxy

BigHaole said:


> Maxy,
> 
> You should read this news article from the MKII site to understand the process for what are being called "2nd Stage Pre-Orders":
> Project GMT: 2nd Stage Pre-order
> Every month another 25 pre-order slots open up. So far, they have disappeared very quickly, but as demand is met, hopefully that will get easier for those still trying to buy one. You'll want to subscribe to the MKII mailing list to know when the window opens.
> 
> A new order would be for the full price and would include the watch, but not the extra bezel, which the plankowners will get.


Thanks a lot. One question though. From the 6 design models, only 2 will be selected? Can I know if my preferred choice is in that two before I do the first payment?


----------



## Pentameter

Maxy said:


> Thanks a lot. One question though. From the 6 design models, only 2 will be selected? Can I know if my preferred choice is in that two before I do the first payment?


no - not sure how you got that. All 6 options will be available. You make your final decision before the FINAL payment is submitted. You need to make the initial deposit immediately when a pre-order round takes place.


----------



## Maxy

Pentameter said:


> no - not sure how you got that. All 6 options will be available. You make your final decision before the FINAL payment is submitted. You need to make the initial deposit immediately when a pre-order round takes place.


Thanks a lot, I'm very interested now


----------



## Maxy

Pentameter said:


> no - not sure how you got that. All 6 options will be available. You make your final decision before the FINAL payment is submitted. You need to make the initial deposit immediately when a pre-order round takes place.


Can someone explain me my concern? The difference between Kingston and Nassau appears to be the gilt dial and Kingston is almost twice the price of Nassau. How come gilt hands and silver hands of Key West GMT are priced similarly?

2nd question is - if I order in Jan slot, when am I looking to get the watch? 2014 end or Summer 2015? I wanted to get an idea before the payment.


----------



## mlb212

Maxy said:


> Can someone explain me my concern? The difference between Kingston and Nassau appears to be the gilt dial and Kingston is almost twice the price of Nassau. How come gilt hands and silver hands of Key West GMT are priced similarly?
> 
> 2nd question is - if I order in Jan slot, when am I looking to get the watch? 2014 end or Summer 2015? I wanted to get an idea before the payment.


Yup, the different between the Kingston and Nassau are the gold hands and gilt dial, thats it. Also the kingston is limited to 300 whereas the nassau isn't specifically limited. You are referring to the Ket West's hands as "silver", I believe you mean "silver" in colour not made of silver, the hands are likely to be platinum or rhodium. They are priced similarly because a man named Bill Yao has priced them similarly. If you order in the January slot, I wouldn't expect to receive a watch until 2016. 2014 is already past so its very unlikely you'll get a watch end of 2014. The thing is we really don't know, I would guess that Bill doesn't really know either. Maybe 2017 is a better guess.

Also there is another thread about the second stage Key West preorder...https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/key-west-2nd-stage-pre-order-1095164.html
some people are getting picky about which threads topics are posted in.


----------



## mlb212

66Cooper said:


> Wait, are you looking to purchase one or have you already placed an order?
> The plank orders sold out in about a day...about 2 or 3 years ago. There was a second sale for non-plank but that sold out in minutes as well


I distinctly recall the plank ordering was open for several days...


----------



## Maxy

mlb212 said:


> Yup, the different between the Kingston and Nassau are the gold hands and gilt dial, thats it. Also the kingston is limited to 300 whereas the nassau isn't specifically limited. You are referring to the Ket West's hands as "silver", I believe you mean "silver" in colour not made of silver, the hands are likely to be platinum or rhodium. They are priced similarly because a man named Bill Yao has priced them similarly. If you order in the January slot, I wouldn't expect to receive a watch until 2016. 2014 is already past so its very unlikely you'll get a watch end of 2014. The thing is we really don't know, I would guess that Bill doesn't really know either. Maybe 2017 is a better guess.
> 
> Also there is another thread about the second stage Key West preorder...https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/key-west-2nd-stage-pre-order-1095164.html
> some people are getting picky about which threads topics are posted in.


Thanks.. so 2 years from now! :think: Now, I'm not so sure to order. I don't mind the price but you never know where life takes us in 2 years! :roll:


----------



## mlb212

Maxy said:


> Thanks.. so 2 years from now! :think: Now, I'm not so sure to order. I don't mind the price but you never know where life takes us in 2 years! :roll:


Agreed, best hold off for now.


----------



## Chromejob

The Kingston had a bigger crown, as it was a "big crown 6538" homage. 


// Tapatalk on iPad - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech BT kybd //


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Chromejob said:


> The Kingston had a bigger crown, as it was a "big crown 6538" homage.
> 
> // Tapatalk on iPad - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech BT kybd //


-Another difference is that Kingston was available in three different date-dial configurations and also available in two different lume colours (instead of just BGW9 as the Nassau is).


----------



## Neily_San

Chromejob said:


> The Kingston had a bigger crown, as it was a "big crown 6538" homage.
> 
> // Tapatalk on iPad - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech BT kybd //


Should I mention my big crown Nassau at this point .... or is this now getting too confusing and tenuous for the Key West design thread ;-D

Neily


----------



## White Tuna

Neily_San said:


> Should I mention my big crown Nassau at this point .... or is this now getting too confusing and tenuous for the Key West design thread ;-D
> 
> Neily


It is always a good time to mention a big crown Nassau, but you know it can open a can of worms. :-d


----------



## mlb212

So maxy, that's the only difference; kinstons have a big crown but some nassaus did also, and some kinstons had a date, and some kinstons had the glossy dial but the 369 Nassau also has a glossy dial, originally some kingstons had the silver triangle without minute markings bezel but the Nassau does now too however with minute markings, some of the thunderball Kingstons were also cosc certified, and some Kingstons had C3 lume. So including the gilt dial and hands, that's it... the only differences.


----------



## rmassony

mlb212 said:


> So maxy, that's the only difference; kinstons have a big crown but some nassaus did also, and some kinstons had a date, and some kinstons had the glossy dial but the 369 Nassau also has a glossy dial, originally some kingstons had the silver triangle without minute markings bezel but the Nassau does now too so, some of the thunderball Kingston's were also cosc certified. So that's it, the only differences.


Also the casebacks are different.


----------



## White Tuna

rmassony said:


> Also the casebacks are different.


I'm a caseback man myself.


----------



## BigHaole

You also have to look at the history. When the Kingston kicked off, the price was pretty reasonable (hopefully a Kingston plankholder will chime in with details). When the released, many turned around and flipped them for upwards on $2k, which was a significant increase on the price MKII charged for them. When the generally available Nassau was launched, the price was higher than the Kingston had been, but still below what the Kingstons were selling for on the secondary market.


----------



## Chromejob

Neily_San said:


> Should I mention my big crown Nassau at this point .... or is this now getting too confusing and tenuous for the Key West design thread ;-D


No. Only 25 had the larger crown, after a parts problem, they were a limited issue offered, if I recall, to Kingston buyers. New Nassaus do not have the 8mm crown.



mlb212 said:


> ...originally some kingstons had the silver triangle without minute markings bezel but the Nassau does now too, some of the thunderball Kingstons were also cosc certified..


No, no, NO.

1. there is no "Thunderball" Kingston. That's someone's fake.

2. Mk II watches aren't COSC certified.

3. I don't recall any Nassau with silver index pip but without minute indices ("Bond style").

4. The Nassau sells for roughly the same as the GO Kingstons I bought did. (Excluding the 3-6-9 Nassau with date.)

Please stop confusing someone new to Mk II, even in jest. It reflects poorly on us all.

// Tapatalk on iPad - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech BT kybd //


----------



## TheDude

mlb212 said:


> So maxy, that's the only difference; kinstons have a big crown but some nassaus did also, and some kinstons had a date, and some kinstons had the glossy dial but the 369 Nassau also has a glossy dial, originally some kingstons had the silver triangle without minute markings bezel but the Nassau does now too, some of the thunderball Kingstons were also cosc certified, and some Kingstons had C3 lume. So including the gilt dial and hands, that's it... the only differences.


25 Nassaus had big crowns, Kingston tubes, Kingston casebacks and bracelets.

The Kingston silver triangle bezel insert is different from the silver triangle now on the Nassau. Some Kingstons also had matte. What is the point of this stroll down memory lane again? 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> It is always a good time to mention a big crown Nassau, but you know it can open a can of worms. :-d


Can of worms officially opened.


----------



## Chromejob

TheDude said:


> .... What is the point of this stroll down memory lane again?


New user asking about differences between watches. Which is why the inaccuracies are disturbing. If we're going to inform a potential new fan, let's do it right.


----------



## mlb212

Chromejob said:


> New user asking about differences between watches. Which is why the inaccuracies are disturbing. If we're going to inform a potential new fan, let's do it right.


Ok, enough teasing. There are lots of differences of which many are listed here and in this link.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/kingston-vs-nassau-pic-comparison-758113.html

Chromejob is right, the Thunderball Kingston is a fake (or modification of another watch to look like an MKII Kingston) which claimed cosc certification and although it could be cosc certified, I have my doubts.


----------



## Arthur

What in the world do any of these last 10+ posts have to do with the Key West? There are appropriate threads for Nassau, Kingston details, comparisons, etc.
I believe that it would be better to keep everything but GMT design posts out of this thread, less we wake up one morning and this one is gone.


----------



## Chromejob

Arthur said:


> What in the world do any of these last 10+ posts have to do with the Key West? There are appropriate threads for Nassau, Kingston details, comparisons, etc.
> I believe that it would be better to keep everything but GMT design posts out of this thread, less we wake up one morning and this one is gone.


I concur.

Explanation : See Maxy's posts.


----------



## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> What in the world do any of these last 10+ posts have to do with the Key West? There are appropriate threads for Nassau, Kingston details, comparisons, etc.
> I believe that it would be better to keep everything but GMT design posts out of this thread, less we wake up one morning and this one is gone.


The question was asked as to whether the gilt dial would be the same price as the non-gilt and was related back to the Kingston compared to Nassau and the prices for each. Actually a reasonable discussion for this thread, IMHO. Not that a few of the 125 pages here may have gone a little off topic.


----------



## Arthur

I think the big problem lies with guys who come on here, obviously haven't spent any time reading any of the old posts, or the updates on the MKII website, ask a bunch of questions that have been answered time and time again. This Maxy guy obviously thought that he could order a Watch and it would be delivered FedEx overnight!! Didn't like the idea of a six weeks wait, and certainly wasn't going to ante up for a two year wait. Hell, I'm 71 years old, I doubt that he is half my age and worried about what is going to be in two years!!I paid the second half of my Key West plank order about ten minutes after I got Bill's email. Who knows, I may be dead and gone when the watch arrives, I sure hope not, but I'm not going to stop living my life and taking reasonable risks because I'm worried that I won't be around.
I'll go out of my way to try to help guys who are new, but have done some research and understand what's going on. But I really don't have a lot of time to waste on folks who obviously haven't spent any time researching the topic.


----------



## BigHaole

I feel the exact opposite about it. This has been a 3+ year endeavor. There have been months at a time with no talk or discussion. I'm happy to get the gang together and discuss these things. And answering questions for new people is just a nice thing to do. 3 years ago, I was new to MKII and I had a lot of questions about what this whole "project watch thing" was and if it was for me. 3 years later and I'm still not sure, but I'm willing to wait a little longer, since it sounds like we're starting to approach the finish line and everyone assures me that it will be worth the wait. But i'll be honest, there were times, in the middle, when I was really starting to question it. I'm glad there was this supportive group to help out.

And if you don't like answering questions that have already been answers...then just ignore them. Others here will be happy to step in.


----------



## Chromejob

Arthur said:


> ...This Maxy guy obviously thought that he could order a Watch and it would be delivered FedEx overnight!! Didn't like the idea of a six weeks wait, and certainly wasn't going to ante up for a two year wait. ....


I don't think I read those words from him/her, so you're making an assumption. Yes, perhaps we could've just said, "read the threads," and then after about 80 man hours of reading the relevant threads, Maxy (or any new user) would be all caught up.

I'm with you, this is the DESIGN THREAD sticky, not a FAQ or open forum thread to ask anything. It annoys me when it gets cluttered with pre-order questions (maybe we need a designated pre-order sticky?), posts about watches that the KW is NOT going to be be authentic to, etc. But this is a human endeavor, and so prone to some goofiness.


----------



## Arthur

Well guys, sorry I stepped on anyone's toes, I don't mind answering questions, for all the years here, and quite a few years before when I was active in the Doxa forum,I have always tried to be helpful. We were all noobs once. I just think that a little research ahead of time would save a lot of questions that have been answered. 

And like you Big Haole, I'm glad to see some activity picking up. This site and especially this thread has been dead as the proverbial doorknob for quite a while. I'm sure that as the launch gets closer, actual photos of the Key West and its various parts will stimulate a good bit of activity. 

I still stand by what I posted a day or so back, this is a design thread, and it would be more productive if we try to keep posts more or less on track.
Have a good day everyone.


----------



## Maxy

Arthur said:


> I think the big problem lies with guys who come on here, obviously haven't spent any time reading any of the old posts, or the updates on the MKII website, ask a bunch of questions that have been answered time and time again.* This Maxy guy obviously thought that he could order a Watch and it would be delivered FedEx overnight!! Didn't like the idea of a six weeks wait*, and certainly wasn't going to ante up for a two year wait. Hell, I'm 71 years old, I doubt that he is half my age and worried about what is going to be in two years!!I paid the second half of my Key West plank order about ten minutes after I got Bill's email. Who knows, I may be dead and gone when the watch arrives, I sure hope not, but I'm not going to stop living my life and taking reasonable risks because I'm worried that I won't be around.
> I'll go out of my way to try to help guys who are new, but have done some research and understand what's going on. But I really don't have a lot of time to waste on folks who obviously haven't spent any time researching the topic.


Well, what you've been smoking dude? Read my below post.. my questions were regarding the designs and if they are priced similarly and then the wait period for this model. Also, I wanted to know if I can get by year end or summer next year, which is 1.5 years minimum.(even though it is typo with yrs mentioned). Some fanatic guys expect that everyone out there should know the whole history of MKII and their inconsistent methods of pricing and purchase as if the brand and this method has been existing from last 150 years. Also Arthur, if you don't have patience, you don't need to answer.. there are lot of other folks to help out, the question wasn't particularly directed to you, so quit freaking out.

Well.. thanks guys who answered and sorry for coming back to answer this thread.... I think my last reply 3 pages back. Won't bother with anymore replies again on this thread.

*







Originally Posted by Maxy *
_*Can someone explain me my concern? The difference between Kingston and Nassau appears to be the gilt dial and Kingston is almost twice the price of Nassau. How come gilt hands and silver hands of Key West GMT are priced similarly?

2nd question is - if I order in Jan slot, when am I looking to get the watch? 2014 end or Summer 2015? I wanted to get an idea before the payment.*_


----------



## Arthur

Well "DUDE", this old 71 year old probably hasn't been smoking anything except and occasional Cigar. First off some of the questions about pricing inconsistencies can only be answered by Bill Yao,. Since he owns the company he sets the prices, and he dictates when watches are going to be released and how many. Also, while the members here have a certain degree of input regarding design, colors, Lume, etc. in the end Bill makes the final decision. 

I find it amusing that folks come on here and are truly surprised when they find out that the watch numbers are limited, and the wait times can stretch to several years. The Kingston plank owners waited 3+, looks like the Key West plank owners are looking at a similar wait. And pity the poor guys waiting for the 300 (Omega Seamaster 300 homage) they are looking at really long times, although I'm not sure if they have put up any money up front, as I don't keep up with that watch.

So in summation, most of the questions that you asked are either ones that have been asked multiple times before, or questions that we as forum members can only speculate about, as the answers are only known by Bill. I will tell you one thing, if you have the patience to wait a MKII out, you will be very happy with the results. I own two Kingstons and a Stingray, as well as being very close to the front of the plank order list for a Key West. They are the best "bang for the buck" in contemporary watches today. I would say that compared to other watches I own, they match up well with all of them including a few that are 4 to 5X more expensive.. 
AFA purchasing, there are several alternatives. One you can get in the pre order queue which may entail a protracted wait. The second is basically to buy someone else's position in line., this also might result in a wait. Or the third option would be purchasing one on the secondary market. If the Key West is anything like the Kingston, quite a lot of them will be flipped, some without being worn. This option allows one the luxury of waiting to see exactly what the watch us going to look like before putting up any money. The downside of this option is, if the watch follows the Kingston trend, the watches entering the secondary market will be more expensive than one bought from MKII. The second problem, you may not find one in exactly the configuration you want. This shouldn't be as big a problem as with the Kingston, mainly because the Kingston had around 20 possible dial, bezel, Lume, date,no-date and hand combinations. It might take a while to find one that meets your criteria. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

[redacted by Chromejob, after editing by mod?] Let's simmer down, 'kay?

// Tapatalk on iPad - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech BT kybd //


----------



## White Tuna

mlb212 said:


> Can of worms officially opened.


What I thought of when I saw the escalation of your post:


----------



## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> ........ at dawn, ladies, or just drop it.
> 
> // Tapatalk on iPad - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech BT kybd //


LMAO.

First, I am the last to judge anyone here because I have been a big ass on this forum for years. But apparently there are a people who have questions about MKII and its watches so I have been trying to be helpful and happy. I see myself as an unpaid Apple Genius idiot for the MKII forums and I am trying to be nice and helpful when I can. When you have as little to work with as I do







it sometimes does not go well so I apologize for that.

Apparently this forum has a reputation among some people of not being friendly. I know that I have contributed a to that in the past so I am trying to be more welcoming and helpful so I can perhaps help in a small way.

Even though a lot of questions have been answered or the answers could be found easily if one looked that is not my concern. I know that people will always ask and hope to get an answer. I would say that in these days but I think people have always been like that, ask for the answer as opposed to doing the research. It just is and I will deal with that. I will try to help.

The Nassau's have brought more people and as big of a selfish ass that I am I feel that it is good for all of us. I love my MKII's and envy others for the ones I do not have (I HATE YOU OCM!!!) but I am glad that they are there.

I will try to answer people's questions if I can. I reserve the right to be wrong. I am not better than anyone because I have been here longer or can search the forum better or have watch A. There will always be people who have been here longer, can search better or do not need to search and have better watches than I have so that is all so petty and pointless. I am not above it, I am trying to be above it.

I am looking forward to my new Key West overlords.


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> What I thought of when I saw the escalation of your post:


Lol. People on watch forums are an excitable melodramatic bunch...


----------



## 66Cooper




----------



## Arthur

White Tuna said:


> LMAO.
> 
> First, I am the last to judge anyone here because I have been a big ass on this forum for years. But apparently there are a people who have questions about MKII and its watches so I have been trying to be helpful and happy. I see myself as an unpaid Apple Genius idiot for the MKII forums and I am trying to be nice and helpful when I can. When you have as little to work with as I do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it sometimes does not go well so I apologize for that.
> 
> Apparently this forum has a reputation among some people of not being friendly. I know that I have contributed a to that in the past so I am trying to be more welcoming and helpful so I can perhaps help in a small way.
> 
> Even though a lot of questions have been answered or the answers could be found easily if one looked that is not my concern. I know that people will always ask and hope to get an answer. I would say that in these days but I think people have always been like that, ask for the answer as opposed to doing the research. It just is and I will deal with that. I will try to help.
> 
> The Nassau's have brought more people and as big of a selfish ass that I am I feel that it is good for all of us. I love my MKII's and envy others for the ones I do not have (I HATE YOU OCM!!!) but I am glad that they are there.
> 
> I will try to answer people's questions if I can. I reserve the right to be wrong. I am not better than anyone because I have been here longer or can search the forum better or have watch A. There will always be people who have been here longer, can search better or do not need to search and have better watches than I have so that is all so petty and pointless. I am not above it, I am trying to be above it.
> 
> I am looking forward to my new Key West overlords.


Very well said sir. Sometimes we ( me especially) type away when we are in a mood that dictates that we listen!! This is a good forum, and I have never found it particularly unfriendly, however a new person visiting here for the first time might tend to disagree. Not sure if you remember, but during the Kingston pre delivery and the early stages of delivery, there were threads that got really contentious. I do feel that for the most part the majority of members here are pretty willing and eager to help new folks. After all, I think the basic reason we are all here is because we really like the MKII watches, and usually if people like a product they are eager to share their feelings.


----------



## MHe225

Arthur said:


> ... And pity the poor guys waiting for the 300 (Omega Seamaster 300 homage) they are looking at really long times, although I'm not sure if they have put up any money up front, as I don't keep up with that watch ...


Well, Arthur dude*, allow me to blow that smoke from your eyes - we / they (the poor P300 dudes that is) deposited $300 in spring of 2010 (March 16 for me)



Arthur said:


> ... Not sure if you remember, but during the Kingston pre delivery and the early stages of delivery, there were threads that got really contentious ...


I remember those days very well. I even got scolded for keeping tabs on the number of threads people managed to get locked:









It was wild for a while and I hope we'll never see similar times again.

* I hope that you do see humor in this; if not, then I sincerely apologize. I mean absolutely no disrespect.

PS - I do also apologize for posting non-design related content; just adding to the ongoing "discussion"


----------



## White Tuna

MHe225 said:


> Well, Arthur dude*, allow me to blow that smoke from your eyes - we / they (the poor P300 dudes that is) deposited $300 in spring of 2010 (March 16 for me)


n00b! LOL :-d


----------



## bbuckbbuck

[original post redacted because i'm an idiot]


----------



## mlb212

bbuckbbuck said:


> [original post redacted because i'm an idiot]


huh...what happened here?


----------



## phillycheez

Anyone own a Nassau and have calipers? 

This looks to be the same case... So I am assuming same bezel. 

Can anyone give me the dimensions of the inner and outer bezel insert dimensions?

Would like to know if it's even possible to fit an aftermarket bakelite insert I can acquire. I do assume I will be sanding it down either way. 

If anyone can help... That would be very appreciative. 

Will try and get in on this next order.


----------



## BigHaole

phillycheez said:


> Would like to know if it's even possible to fit an aftermarket bakelite insert I can acquire.


I did not know there were aftermarket bakelite bezels out there. I would be very interested in seeing how this "customization" works out. There was also some talk, earlier, about after market magnifiers. Maybe we'll see some further tweeks on people's individual KeyWests. Good luck!


----------



## TheDude

phillycheez said:


> Anyone own a Nassau and have calipers?
> 
> This looks to be the same case... So I am assuming same bezel.
> 
> Can anyone give me the dimensions of the inner and outer bezel insert dimensions?
> 
> Would like to know if it's even possible to fit an aftermarket bakelite insert I can acquire. I do assume I will be sanding it down either way.
> 
> If anyone can help... That would be very appreciative.
> 
> Will try and get in on this next order.


A few ideas about this. First, the metal retaining bezel for the insert is lower on the 6542 vs the Subs.

GMT bezel










Sub bezels










Second, the old Rolex models in question are 36mm watches.

There's probably zero chance of an aftermarket bakelite fitting a Key West.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## phillycheez

All I'm asking is what the dimensions are for the Nassau bezel insert... 

I'm aware cases are different than the genuine. 

If the specs are anywhere close to an outside diameter of 37.6mm and inside diameter of 30.3mm.than there's nothing a little sanding can't fix. 

I'm just seeing if there's a chance. If anyone has calipers and a Nassau.... Please share. 

And sorry for the mistake, the insert is actually lexan, not bakelite. Which is essentially a harder acrylic.


----------



## JFingers

phillycheez said:


> All I'm asking is what the dimensions are for the Nassau bezel insert...
> 
> I'm aware cases are different than the genuine.
> 
> If the specs are anywhere close to an outside diameter of 37.6mm and inside diameter of 30.3mm.than there's nothing a little sanding can't fix.
> 
> I'm just seeing if there's a chance. If anyone has calipers and a Nassau.... Please share.
> 
> And sorry for the mistake, the insert is actually lexan, not bakelite. Which is essentially a harder acrylic.


I wish I had a caliper to help out because this sounds like it could turn out pretty freakin' cool...


----------



## Chromejob

JFingers said:


> I wish I had a caliper to help out because this sounds like it could turn out pretty freakin' cool...


Go into your a/c maintenance shop or tool control. They should have calibrated micrometer calipers (digital). I used to manage all the calibration serviced tools for AvTraCen Mobile for a year or so (nearest cal lab was Keesler AFB).  Used to measure inner and outer diameters (used for precision sized rings and things ... engine mech stuff, I was avionics).

But. Measurement will be most accurate with the bezel insert removed, and I don't think you wanna do that! Careful you don't scratch, I remember those micrometers having sharp little points.


----------



## BigHaole

Did we ever talk about what the water resistance would be on the Key West? Will it be the same as the Kingston, due to shared case?


----------



## mrklabb

BigHaole said:


> Did we ever talk about what the water resistance would be on the Key West? Will it be the same as the Kingston, due to shared case?


Per the site, 200m. http://www.mkiiwatches.com/watch-collections/limited-editions-series/project-gmt/


----------



## BigHaole

mrklabb said:


> Per the site, 200m. Project GMT


Excellent! I believe that is the same as the Kingston and higher than what Rolex reports for their GMT-Master (i.e., their version of the Key West).


----------



## Chromejob

mrklabb said:


> Per the site, 200m. http://www.mkiiwatches.com/watch-collections/limited-editions-series/project-gmt/





BigHaole said:


> Excellent! I believe that is the same as the Kingston and higher than what Rolex reports for their GMT-Master (i.e., their version of the Key West).


KW uses the same case as the Kingston and Nassau.

// Tapatalk on iPad Mini - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech folio kybd //


----------



## TheDude

BigHaole said:


> Excellent! I believe that is the same as the Kingston and higher than what Rolex reports for their GMT-Master (i.e., their version of the Key West).


Correct, although there were posts when the latest GMT was released of a guy diving much deeper with his GMT. The latest Rolex shares the same triplock crown and gasket system as the Sub and Sea-Dweller. I think the main reason for the 100M rating is a thinner crystal.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Yellowdrive

Is anyone else wondering if we're going to see a finished Key West at Baselworld later this month? There was some mention of showing off a new project in that last Worn & Wound interview. Of all his upcoming projects (Key West, 300 and Stingray II), the GMT seems to be the only contender. Is that just me?


----------



## BigHaole

Yellowdrive said:


> Is that just me?


It's good to have hope!


----------



## Pentameter

Yellowdrive said:


> Is anyone else wondering if we're going to see a finished Key West at Baselworld later this month? There was some mention of showing off a new project in that last Worn & Wound interview. Of all his upcoming projects (Key West, 300 and Stingray II), the GMT seems to be the only contender. Is that just me?


Didn't he say it's something that's been in the works for awhile? It's gotta be one of those 3&#8230; if not we may see some rioting.


----------



## mlb212

Yellowdrive said:


> Is anyone else wondering if we're going to see a finished Key West at Baselworld later this month? There was some mention of showing off a new project in that last Worn & Wound interview. Of all his upcoming projects (Key West, 300 and Stingray II), the GMT seems to be the only contender. Is that just me?


I am guessing either the Key West or the GMT Fulcrum.


----------



## gnome666

I'm going to go out on a limb here (and a hope) and put my money on the announcement of the new Tornek-Rayville. We know that it's something in the works. Also, it has a relatively storied past which would likely be of interest to the wider watch consuming audience which would be at Baselworld; outside of the relatively smaller community of micro-brand fans that follow the development of things like the fulcrum and key west GMT. A longshot I know...but you heard it here first.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

I think the better question is...will we get any update on the KeyWest, before Baselworld? It's been a while since we've heard or seen anything, other than changes to the ordering system.


----------



## STEELINOX

BigHaole said:


> I think the better question is...will we get any update on the KeyWest, before Baselworld? It's been a while since we've heard or seen anything, other than changes to the ordering system.


It will most likely be revealed at Basel...
A sparkling example and a few other surprises !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## CBM_DOC

Surprises from Bill are always welcome.

Dave


----------



## POR901

I should probably know the answer to this question since I'm one of the lucky 60 plank owners.....but I don't. Will the Key West have the larger lollipop seconds hand?


----------



## White Tuna

POR901 said:


> I should probably know the answer to this question since I'm one of the lucky 60 plank owners.....but I don't. Will the Key West have the larger lollipop seconds hand?










From:

http://www.mkiiwatches.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/mkii_GMT_preview.jpg


----------



## Chromejob

I don't think so, I havent seen that variation in any other Mk IIs, and it doesnt appear so from his final design specs.


----------



## TheDude

If Bill "releases" or "shows" anything at Baselworld it will be a radical departure from previous years. While watches get shown, I don't know of any big splashes from MkII at previous shows (and Bill goes every year). 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

I dunno about Basel, but Bill just posted this Instagram pic of sample dials (say again, folks, SAMPLE DIALS). Earlier Instagram posts showed lume tests for the hands. So the parts are coming together....


__
http://instagr.am/p/0YD5aaK-SG/










// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## 66Cooper

Very very interesting.


----------



## POR901

There's light at the end of the tunnel.....


----------



## mrklabb

Can't friggin wait


----------



## BigHaole

I just had my first angry-old-man-moment, as I realized I now need to watch here, News, Facebook, and now Intagram, if I want to try to find the latest status is on this watch. Excuse me, I need to go yell at some kids to get off my lawn.

On a serious note, did we decide on only 1 lume, different lumes for each dial, or buyer's choice of lume and dial? It looks like blue lume in the instragram pictures, so I assume BGW-9


----------



## JFingers

BigHaole said:


> On a serious note, did we decide on only 1 lume, different lumes for each dial, or buyer's choice of lume and dial? It looks like blue lume in the instragram pictures, so I assume BGW-9


It looks to me like the white dial has c3,but the black dials look like bgw9, but I'm guessing. Also, does it look like the white dial doesn't say "key west - gmt", or do you think the gilt got lost in the light?

Blue skies, y'all! 
-only Jake


----------



## BigHaole

JFingers said:


> ...Also, does it look like the white dial doesn't say "key west - gmt", or do you think the gilt got lost in the light?


I think it's just lost in the light. Look at the indices markers at the bottom, they're nearly gone. But also, remember, these are only samples.


----------



## Pentameter

JFingers said:


> It looks to me like the white dial has c3,but the black dials look like bgw9, but I'm guessing. Also, does it look like the white dial doesn't say "key west - gmt", or do you think the gilt got lost in the light?
> 
> Blue skies, y'all!
> -only Jake


lost in the light, me thinks


----------



## Jfha1210

Black gilt dial with C3, please, please, please... 

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> I just had my first angry-old-man-moment, as I realized I now need to watch here, News, Facebook, and now Intagram, if I want to try to find the latest status is on this watch. Excuse me, I need to go yell at some kids to get off my lawn.
> 
> On a serious note, did we decide on only 1 lume, different lumes for each dial, or buyer's choice of lume and dial? It looks like blue lume in the instragram pictures, so I assume BGW-9


:think: Only the First??? :-s :-d

Seriously.....

Get ready to Experience More!

:-d:-d

btw, I see C3 on the white dial, and BGW9 on the silvered and gilt dials (according to the 'lume shots' posted of the hands earlier).

I too, am disapointed that we don't see more information direct from MKII here.

:think: But it might be that 'forum interaction time' cuts into watch building time; + or - ....

--- Best Wishes ---


----------



## BigHaole

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: But it might be that 'forum interaction time' cuts into watch building time; + or - ....


I fully understand why participation on the forums has dropped. If you have more watch-buyer-wannabes than you have watches to sell, don't waste time trying to keep up interest. But please, pick one source for information, either your own news links, Facebook, or instagram. You don't need to split the information up across all three. That can't be any easier for him and it certainly isn't for me.

OK, off soapbox, kids are now off lawn, back to being excited that the KeyWest is coming together!


----------



## Chromejob

Going from memory, the black dials get BGW9, the white gets a C3 and/or antiqued lume color. Remember, the color the material in teh light is not necessarily tied to the lume color. 

I think the marking is just hard to make out in that lighting. 

I don't mind if Bill posts to FB or Instagram ... there are enough of us on there to circle back here and share. Thats what I did at Bean Traders over my latte, saw the pic, knew you guys would wanna see it, and ... voila, posted. 


// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## Thieuster

Great news! Glad that the dial I like most is the dial that I had in mind already: upper left: black, gilt.

BTW, I agree with BigHaole that I'd expected this forum to be the first place to see this pic. 
AFAIK, MKIIs hard core afficianados are gathered here - and since we were involved and invited to participate in the design proces, it would be more in line of expectations.

But, let's not get distracted, so back to the topic: the dials look great! Can't wait for a pic with the hands next to the dials! (Here or on fb/insta/twitter - pref here)

Menno


----------



## BigHaole

So we've seen dials, hands, case and crown. I believe the only major pieces we haven't seen are the bezels. And there's a part of me that holds out hope that the reason Bill has been quiet on the bezel front is so he can surprise us with something special, like a sapphire coke and pepsi bezel set.


----------



## cpotters

C'MON KIDS. he dropped a clue somewhere like a treasure hunt. I thought it was cool to have to circle outside the MkII Solar System to get a surprise ( and remember, in MkII-land, this is the season for surprises, typically).


----------



## timeturner7

BigHaole said:


> So we've seen dials, hands, case and crown. I believe the only major pieces we haven't seen are the bezels. And there's a part of me that holds out hope that the reason Bill has been quiet on the bezel front is so he can surprise us with something special, like a sapphire coke and pepsi bezel set.


I am also waiting to see the LE caseback!!


----------



## STEELINOX

BigHaole said:


> So we've seen dials, hands, case and crown. I believe the only major pieces we haven't seen are the bezels. And there's a part of me that holds out hope that the reason Bill has been quiet on the bezel front is so he can surprise us with something special, like a sapphire coke and pepsi bezel set.


Sapphire set? At the price point, that will not be a reality (unless you want the inserts made in China or BANGKOK) ~ !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## BigHaole

STEELINOX said:


> Sapphire set? At the price point, that will not be a reality (unless you want the inserts made in China or BANGKOK) ~ !


If they are well made, I don't really care where they come from.


----------



## STEELINOX

BigHaole said:


> If they are well made, I don't really care where they come from.


Agree, and from what I have seen so far, these places do some nice work !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## flying.fish

Hi Folks, just joined the thread. Is there any list I am missing? Cheers,


----------



## Chromejob

Start reading.


----------



## TheMeasure

flying.fish said:


> Hi Folks, just joined the thread. Is there any list I am missing? Cheers,


Welcome to MKII. You will certainly want to submit you email to MKII so that you can be entered into the drawings. This link will give you a better explanation of the drawings & how the spots are currently being released. Project GMT News

More or less similar info about the slots & ordering. MKII E-Boutique

You may also want to follow the Key West 2nd Stage Pre-Order thread as members have been really good about posting updates there very quickly after MKII releases the news.

Best of luck!


----------



## BigHaole

So...we have sample dials, sample hands, sample date wheel, and Baselworld is over. It sounds, to me, like we're ready for our first sample pictures of the Key West!


----------



## Hoppyjr

Maybe it will arrive in time to celebrate the third anniversary of this thread.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: @Hoppyjr....And maybe, Just maybe.... you'll have the time and opportunity to drop in and leave another snarky remark behind.... :-d


----------



## Hoppyjr

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: @Hoppyjr....And maybe, Just maybe.... you'll have the time and opportunity to drop in and leave another snarky remark behind.... :-d


I'll try, but only because you asked nicely. 

You fellas sure are sensitive.


----------



## Pentameter

Hoppyjr said:


> I'll try, but only because you asked nicely.
> 
> You fellas sure are sensitive.


nah, we can just sniff out passive-aggressiveness fast.


----------



## White Tuna

Hoppyjr said:


> I'll try, but only because you asked nicely.
> 
> You fellas sure are sensitive.


We are sensitive because we visit a watch forum for a watch we are interested in and some of us like to keep up on?

What would you call a group of supposedly grown men who gather at another forum just to discuss specific men and how other people spend their money? LOL


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> We are sensitive because we visit a watch forum for a watch we are interested in and some of us like to keep up on?
> 
> What would you call a group of supposedly grown men who gather at another forum just to discuss specific men and how other people spend their money? LOL


A " Lodge " !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Chromejob

Can we keep the "design thread" on the topic of the design, please?


----------



## STEELINOX

Chromejob said:


> Can we keep the "design thread" on the topic of the design, please?


Only if you post something immediately regarding design...

Like, "shouldn't chamfers on the mid casing be more "pronounced" than with earlier projects, like KINGSTON"?" etc...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Chromejob

Isn't it interesting how for the gilt, white dial, a C3 + greenish hue lume is needed to be more visible? Even the popular "cream" or antiqued hour marker material that other makers use would sorta disappear into the dial... 

There, back on topic for a little while.


----------



## JFingers

Chromejob said:


> Isn't interesting how for the gilt, white dial, a C3 + greenish hue lume is needed to be more visible? Even this popular "cream" or antiqued hour marker material would sorta disappear into the dial...


I like it in theory, and I'm 90% certain that's what I will order, but I'm really looking forward to seeing pictures. I think if it was bgw9 lume, it would just be blank white dial. The opposite of the murdered out all black watches, which I'm not a huge fan of. I think the c3 lume is going to look sweet.

And I'm ok with the camfers as they are ☺

Blue skies, y'all! 
-only Jake


----------



## STEELINOX

I for one would like to see chamfers that root from the bezel a whopping 1mm flared out to 3mm at the lug end...

Sorta like this...









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Chromejob

On the bottom lugs, that's an effect of the lighting, not the chamfer. Look to old Omega SM 300s for an example of a thin chamfer swelling and curling over to the front.


----------



## mlb212

Chromejob said:


> Isn't it interesting how for the gilt, white dial, a C3 + greenish hue lume is needed to be more visible? Even the popular "cream" or antiqued hour marker material that other makers use would sorta disappear into the dial...
> 
> There, back on topic for a little while.


I have to admit, I am worried about the white dial Key West. I don't like the color of the white dial markers in the single pic we have seen so far. I am worried I won't like the moby Key West. I might have wished they were BGW9.


----------



## STEELINOX

Chromejob said:


> On the bottom lugs, that's an effect of the lighting, not the chamfer. Look to old Omega SM 300s for an example of a thin chamfer swelling and curling over to the front.


I see three different angles here= a definite wider chamfer than thin and not an effect of "lighting"!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gnome666

mlb212 said:


> I have to admit, I am worried about the white dial Key West. I don't like the color of the white dial markers in the single pic we have seen so far. I am worried I won't like the moby Key West. I might have wished they were BGW9.


I have the same fear. I long for a white dial version, but I'm not sure the lume color and gilt print on white align with my sensibilities. But....that could all change seeing the thing assembled. I hope my mind is changed cuz I really would rather have a whit dial over black....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

STEELINOX said:


> I see three different angles here= a definite wider chamfer than thin and not an effect of "lighting"!


I guess you need to mark up what you consider to be the chamfer. Because -- IF you really think the chamfer should swell to entire width of the lug at the point -- the bottom left lug doesnt match the bottom right lug in your pic, and the top lugs don't that an exaggerated chamfer expanding from 1mm to 3mm IMHO. I still think that's a light reflection you're seeing.



















FWIW the lug ends on my Kingston are barely 3mm wide (from the top) total. What youre describing would look something like this.


----------



## STEELINOX

If the chamfers looked near to these that'd be nice...









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## mlb212

gnome666 said:


> I have the same fear. I long for a white dial version, but I'm not sure the lume color and gilt print on white align with my sensibilities. But....that could all change seeing the thing assembled. I hope my mind is changed cuz I really would rather have a whit dial over black....
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really don't want to think about getting a white dialed Key West and sending it out to get relumed with something less...orange/yellow/green/brown...


----------



## Darwin

This picture is killing me!



STEELINOX said:


> If the chamfers looked near to these that'd be nice...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## White Tuna

I do not know what a chamfer is but I am going to leave this here for people to discuss its chamferness.


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> I do not know what a chamfer is but I am going to leave this here for people to discuss its chamferness.
> 
> View attachment 3605698


You can "Google" it!

The quick illustration pertains to the mid casing lug detail...
Most people call these "bevels" on the lugs, which is incorrect...
See below...









Here is a beauty of an example, so sweet, you culd cook a patty melt on it !









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## gnome666

White Tuna said:


> I do not know what a chamfer is but I am going to leave this here for people to discuss its chamferness.
> 
> View attachment 3605698


Daaaaamn! I wish the key west white dial looked like that......

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gnome666

Also, I'm just going to leave this here again, though it's been posted before. If the key west lume is more akin to the shade used here, I'd be down with a white gilt dial. Unfortunately for me, the lume in the dials bill posted look a lot more greenish.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yellowdrive

Ha! I was just about to post this image. I was under the assumption that this is exactly what the white dial/C3 lume combo was going to look like. I would hate to put too much stock into an Instagram image at this point.



gnome666 said:


> Also, I'm just going to leave this here again, though it's been posted before. If the key west lume is more akin to the shade used here, I'd be down with a white gilt dial. Unfortunately for me, the lume in the dials bill posted look a lot more greenish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mlb212

gnome666 said:


> Also, I'm just going to leave this here again, though it's been posted before. If the key west lume is more akin to the shade used here, I'd be down with a white gilt dial. Unfortunately for me, the lume in the dials bill posted look a lot more greenish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is exactly what I want only with a GMT bezel, GMT hand, and "Key West" instead of "Kingston" on the dial.


----------



## gnome666

mlb212 said:


> This is exactly what I want only with a GMT bezel, GMT hand, and "Key West" instead of "Kingston" on the dial.


Maybe if we all wish hard enough, it will be so!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JFingers

He just posted a photo of a black dial getting qc'd on Instagram and Facebook. I don't know how to link to it from my phone, so you'll have to find it yourself. 

Blue skies, y'all! 
-only Jake


----------



## Pentameter




----------



## gnome666

Ahhhhhh! Everyone lose their sh*t!!!!!









......just jokes folks. Just jokes.

Seriously though, pretty exciting. Though I must say, he's just teasing us by withholding that white dialed vixen ;p

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

mlb212 said:


> This is exactly what I want only with a GMT bezel, GMT hand, and "Key West" instead of "Kingston" on the dial.


Don't read too much into any one picture. Exposure can play havoc on subtle color variation (or not so subtle, in the case of that weird dress). If this Moby Kingston dial is C3, then that's what it would look like with C3 on the KeyWest.


----------



## BigHaole

Pentameter said:


> View attachment 3609122


OMG, this watch might be actually happening!

I wish the 24-hr triangle could have been a little bit bigger, but overall, I'm really liking this combination.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> *Don't read too much into any one picture. Exposure can play havoc on subtle color variation* (or not so subtle, in the case of that weird dress). If this Moby Kingston dial is C3, then that's what it would look like with C3 on the KeyWest.


Exactly! the 'color temperature' of the lighting vs 'Natural Sunlight' and camera settings etc., are all important elements that effect the appearance of the final picture. Not to mention your particular monitor or screen settings of the device you are using to view it.

:think: And, I have a hunch that the photograph we see was taken under fairly strong (bright) indoor lighting - that could make it look brighter or 'closer to white' than it would otherwise. We'll just have to wait until we see pictures of the actual watch in the metal.

:think: And even after that, it may look different once it is in your 'lustful paws' -- :-d:-d

--- Break Time --- ;-)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> OMG, this watch might be actually happening!
> 
> *I wish the 24-hr triangle could have been a little bit bigger*, but overall, I'm really liking this combination.


*NO! *It is Perfect....


----------



## 66Cooper

I agree. One of the main differentiators of the 6542 was the small triangle. It's kind of the whole point of this watch....get it, point


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> OMG, this watch might be actually happening!
> 
> I wish the 24-hr triangle could have been a little bit bigger, but overall, I'm really liking this combination.


The triangle on the GMT hand was discussed and this looks like the correct size. The tip should just touch or just be inside of the outer indices and the back of the triangle should just touch or be inside the hour marker when dead on.


----------



## Chromejob

JFingers said:


> He just posted a photo of a black dial getting qc'd on Instagram and Facebook. I don't know how to link to it from my phone, so you'll have to find it yourself.
> 
> Blue skies, y'all!
> -only Jake


https://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.n..._=1437910979_3029b035b294d54363881f604c3af542


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> The triangle on the GMT hand was discussed and this looks like the correct size. The tip should just touch or just be inside of the outer indices and the back of the triangle should just touch or be inside the hour marker when dead on.


Maybe it's just the angle that is making it look smaller to me. I went back over the original drawings, from several years ago, and re-read some of the old discussions. It's definitely bigger than to original tiny dot of a triangle, in the original, so this is a big improvement.

OK, I'm starting to get excited about this project again. I can't wait to see the first fully assembled watches. I'm in the original plank group, but I was not one of the first ones to pop down a deposit, so I should have a chance to see how they look in real life, before I make my final decision on dial and bezel.


----------



## powerband

I'm trying to pay the deposit (was chosen in this random lottery). But when I go to pay through PayPal, it indicates: "PayPal gateway rejected the request. Failed merchant rule check."

Did anyone have this problem? Does MKII not take PayPal anymore but still have the PayPal option in their shopping cart?

Thanks!


----------



## White Tuna

powerband said:


> I'm trying to pay the deposit (was chosen in this random lottery). But when I go to pay through PayPal, it indicates: "PayPal gateway rejected the request. Failed merchant rule check."
> 
> Did anyone have this problem? Does MKII not take PayPal anymore but still have the PayPal option in their shopping cart?
> 
> Thanks!


Open a ticket ASAP.


----------



## powerband

White Tuna said:


> Open a ticket ASAP.


Thanks, WT. I just did. I don't want to miss out on this order -- I have only until 11:59 EST today. :-0


----------



## Darwin

Paypal worked fine for me yesterday morning. Have you tried clearing you browser's cache and history and restarting it?



powerband said:


> I'm trying to pay the deposit (was chosen in this random lottery). But when I go to pay through PayPal, it indicates: "PayPal gateway rejected the request. Failed merchant rule check."
> 
> Did anyone have this problem? Does MKII not take PayPal anymore but still have the PayPal option in their shopping cart?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## powerband

Darwin said:


> Paypal worked fine for me yesterday morning. Have you tried clearing you browser's cache and history and restarting it?


This worked beautifully. Thanks for the suggestion -- much appreciated. Paid the pre-order. I'm in.


----------



## powerband

I like it a lot. The GMT made it "almost" outside the track, but darn close enough. The overall proportion looks great. Can't wait to see the finished piece.


----------



## Thevenin

A white dial photo just posted on instagram > > >


----------



## Thieuster

Wow! I'm asking myself now "Is the black&gilt the only option I like..." 

Menno


----------



## powerband

Thevenin said:


> A white dial photo just posted on instagram > > >
> 
> View attachment 3628866


That looks better in depth than I had ever imagined. I have to question my initial choice of black gilt.


----------



## BigHaole

powerband said:


> That looks better in depth than I had ever imagined. I have to question my initial choice of black gilt.


I'm right there with you, powerband. I'm really not sure which way I'm going to go now. Both these dials look fantastic.

BTW, you guys were right, with the better angle on this, I think the 24-hr triangle is exactly the right size.


----------



## TheMeasure

..choices..:-s


----------



## Darwin

I accidentally put two Key West spots in my basket the other day, panicked and backed out so that I could proceed with only one... Regretting that decision now 

I'm powerband, thieuster, Bighaole and others: what to do, what to do... It seemed quite simple when I woke up this morning (pepsi insert and black gilt dial).


----------



## Elf1962

The question of how well the gilt will contrast (show-up) against the white dial apparently has been answered.
Amazing!!
I especially like how well the red GMT hand looks against the white.
It shows up better on the MKII Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatches?ref=search


----------



## powerband

To the best of my knowledge, so far we've seen the parts that have arrived:

We are familiar with the case (which is the same as that of the Kingston/Nassau), and presumably Bill already has in possession:









We know what the dials look like, in black and white:

























We've seen the crown:









We all know about the 2893-2 calibre that's going into the Key West:









And the date-wheel, happily with open 6s and 9s:









What is there left? 
- Bezel
- Domed sapphire crystal
- Caseback
- Bracelet

Getting closer. :-!


----------



## BigHaole

Now if we could just see the sample with the date wheel displaying one of those beautiful open 6s or 9s...


----------



## JFingers

BigHaole said:


> Now if we could just see the sample with the date wheel displaying one of those beautiful open 6s or 9s...


At least we've seen the date wheel before...  [MEDIA=instagram]tIeKfZK-Xi[/MEDIA] 

I think this is going to be smashingly good.

Blue skies, y'all! 
-only Jake


----------



## Chromejob

In case no one has seen them full size (image, not a screen capture)...


----------



## mlb212

These could be ready for the NYC GTG.


----------



## Dragoon

May be heading thru Phillie later this month. Maybe a stop in MKII land and take a quick peek at the Key West in person. I have a case of Great Lakes Beer to drop off to Bill.
Maybe ? lol.


----------



## messenius

Just can't remember - so is the white dial gloss or matt? I assume it's gloss like the black gilt dial. It's difficult to see from the pictures


----------



## BigHaole

I just through I'd point out that the MKII KeyWest will have twice the stated water resistance, compared to the Rolex GMT Master II watch!


----------



## Thevenin

Chromejob said:


> I dunno about Basel, but Bill just posted this Instagram pic of sample dials (say again, folks, SAMPLE DIALS). Earlier Instagram posts showed lume tests for the hands. So the parts are coming together....
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/0YD5aaK-SG/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> // Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


Hard enough for me that I like the non-gilt black version as well, I'm sure I'm not alone.

There is nothing not to like! Then again, I'm a sucker for the GMT anyway...


----------



## Chromejob

messenius said:


> Just can't remember - so is the white dial gloss or matt? I assume it's gloss like the black gilt dial. It's difficult to see from the pictures


I believe it will be glossy, as that's part of the galvanic printing method. It makes a difference in black -- the black is deeper and "disappears" -- but I can't imagine how it looks in white.


----------



## powerband

It wasn't until about 5 days ago that I knew this project reached this far, so I've spent the weekend reading as much as I could through this thread, skipping many pages along the way. Perhaps, then, I might have missed this -- is there a consensus on what the caseback design will be?


----------



## White Tuna

powerband said:


> It wasn't until about 5 days ago that I knew this project reached this far, so I've spent the weekend reading as much as I could through this thread, skipping many pages along the way. Perhaps, then, I might have missed this -- is there a consensus on what the caseback design will be?


I have not seen a final caseback design. I am not sure what direction Bill is going.


----------



## Elf1962

Does anyone know if MKII will be making spare bezels available for purchase?
This could solve the issue of the "Pepsi' vs."Coke" decision that so many of us are contemplating.
As well, they can make a whole myriad of traditional and non-traditional options available for purchase.


----------



## Pentameter

Elf1962 said:


> Does anyone know if MKII will be making spare bezels available for purchase?
> This could solve the issue of the "Pepsi' vs."Coke" decision that so many of us are contemplating.
> As well, they can make a whole myriad of traditional and non-traditional options available for purchase.


Don't think so & I'd seriously doubt it, as they're not in the parts business anymore and haven't (to my knowledge) sold parts like that with any of their watches.

If I recall correctly, the plank owners are getting a spare bezel. Assuming you're not a plank-owner, some of them will be probably pop up on the secondary market and that would be a way for you to get one, but that's probably your only option.


----------



## Thevenin

How 'bout spare dials?? :think:

:-d x :-d


----------



## powerband

Elf1962 said:


> Does anyone know if MKII will be making spare bezels available for purchase?
> This could solve the issue of the "Pepsi' vs."Coke" decision that so many of us are contemplating.
> As well, they can make a whole myriad of traditional and non-traditional options available for purchase.


I believe Bill mentioned that these will be available only as a parts replacement -- not as interchangeable options. Whether that means you can order them as an extra part or only when the original part breaks was unclear, but I believe either way he's making it clear that if we "monkey" with switching out parts, any goof-up won't be covered under MKII's warranty. To me that makes sense.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## gnome666

not that anyone needs a tutorial on how to read a gmt dial (probably) but this link is worth it for the animation at the top of the page alone

How GMT Watches Work - Gear Patrol


----------



## mrklabb

I can't friggin wait to get this watch!


----------



## powerband

mrklabb said:


> I can't friggin wait to get this watch!


Sure you can. Some have waited over 3 years. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

gnome666 said:


> not that anyone needs a tutorial on how to read a gmt dial (probably) but this link is worth it for the animation at the top of the page alone
> 
> How GMT Watches Work - Gear Patrol


What animation? Opened in Tapatalk, Safari, Chrome.....


----------



## Thevenin

Try this link > > > http://video.gearpatrol.com/00B702/editorial/GMT-13.mp4


----------



## gnome666

Thevenin said:


> Try this link > > > http://video.gearpatrol.com/00B702/editorial/GMT-13.mp4


Yup. That's the one! I could watch that all day long....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

gnome666 said:


> Daaaaamn! I wish the key west white dial looked like that......
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It would need black print instead of gilt...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

BigHaole said:


> OMG, this watch might be actually happening!
> 
> I wish the 24-hr triangle could have been a little bit bigger, but overall, I'm really liking this combination.


I have the exact opposite reaction to the triangle. It needs to be smaller.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

TheDude said:


> I have the exact opposite reaction to the triangle. It needs to be smaller.


I think there was discussion of it being a wee bit larger to accommodate lume. Still fits the original in spirit I think.


----------



## TheDude

Chromejob said:


> I think there was discussion of it being a wee bit larger to accommodate lume. Still fits the original in spirit I think.


It's close enough and that's a fairly good reason.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> It would need black print instead of gilt...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I wanted black or very dark navy for the color. The gilt may work for me though.


----------



## gnome666

TheDude said:


> It would need black print instead of gilt...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Yeah....as much as I like the gilt on the kingston, I wish the black would have been an option on the white dial (I KNOW, I KNOW it's NOT.....just wishin')

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## supersmitty

Am I missing something or need new contacts or something? Or does the lume look completely different when you compare the white whale to the white KW? To my eyes, the KW lume (assuming its C3... I think it is) appears greener more florescent than the softer more 'vanilla-ish' hue of the Moby Kingston? The lume on moby also appears more three dimensional (i.e. raised) than that of KW.
I know these are two different watches... but was under the impression that moby was the unofficial prototype for the white gilded Key West. Does anyone know what lume is on moby?
Is what I'm looking the difference between C3 and BGW9, is comparing these photo's against each other unreasonable or is my mind playing tricks on me?!? :-s
(queue the Geto Boys)


----------



## Thevenin

There is a filter applied to the white dial photo, however looks like it does have a green hue for sure.


----------



## dwg

supersmitty said:


> Am I missing something or need new contacts or something? Or does the lume look completely different when you compare the white whale to the white KW? To my eyes, the KW lume (assuming its C3... I think it is) appears greener more florescent than the softer more 'vanilla-ish' hue of the Moby Kingston? The lume on moby also appears more three dimensional (i.e. raised) than that of KW.
> I know these are two different watches... but was under the impression that moby was the unofficial prototype for the white gilded Key West. Does anyone know what lume is on moby?
> Is what I'm looking the difference between C3 and BGW9, is comparing these photo's against each other unreasonable or is my mind playing tricks on me?!? :-s
> (queue the Geto Boys)


it says "filter applied to pic" on mkii facebook, so it's hard to judge the colors. I guess it's more about showing the gilt.

I'd prefer black lines on the white dial, but the Kingston looks great.


----------



## TheMeasure

supersmitty said:


> To my eyes, the KW lume (assuming its C3... I think it is) appears greener more florescent than the softer more 'vanilla-ish' hue of the Moby Kingston?


The C3 lume can have both the colors you described. There are a number of variables that bring out either the greenish color or the cream/vanilla color. You would have to do some digging but there are good shots of the C3 Kingston in the 'What MKII Are You Wearing' where you can see both.


----------



## White Tuna

I know that Bill's personal preference for the Kingston was BGW9. I am not sure if he got that on the white dial prototype but I would not be surprised. Also I would not consider the Moby Kingston as the prototype for the Key West but if Bill decided to go with gilt on the white dial Key West after seeing a gilt on white dial in the flesh I feel reassured.


----------



## gnome666

supersmitty said:


> Am I missing something or need new contacts or something? Or does the lume look completely different when you compare the white whale to the white KW? To my eyes, the KW lume (assuming its C3... I think it is) appears greener more florescent than the softer more 'vanilla-ish' hue of the Moby Kingston? The lume on moby also appears more three dimensional (i.e. raised) than that of KW.
> I know these are two different watches... but was under the impression that moby was the unofficial prototype for the white gilded Key West. Does anyone know what lume is on moby?
> Is what I'm looking the difference between C3 and BGW9, is comparing these photo's against each other unreasonable or is my mind playing tricks on me?!? :-s
> (queue the Geto Boys)


I think someone pointed out elsewhere that the extra "greenish" color seen on the white keywest (in addition to the filter applied) may also be a factor of the level to which the lume has been "charged". In other words, I can imagine that if the face had been sitting under bright workbench lights for quite some time, the lume would be more charged and more "luminescent", and therefore the green glow that shows in the dark would be more apparent in the "daylight". Whereas, maybe if the lume wasn't fully charged/glowing, it would take on the more cream color of the Moby Kingston.....maybe?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> I have the exact opposite reaction to the triangle. It needs to be smaller.


It's OK. I don't hold it against you to be wrong on this. :-d


----------



## BigHaole

gnome666 said:


> I think someone pointed out elsewhere that the extra "greenish" color seen on the white keywest (in addition to the filter applied) may also be a factor of the level to which the lume has been "charged". In other words, I can imagine that if the face had been sitting under bright workbench lights for quite some time, the lume would be more charged and more "luminescent", and therefore the green glow that shows in the dark would be more apparent in the "daylight". Whereas, maybe if the lume wasn't fully charged/glowing, it would take on the more cream color of the Moby Kingston.....maybe?


Excellent point. On top of white balance, filter, and lighting, a little charge on the like can definitely have this effect.


----------



## Chromejob

gnome666 said:


> I think someone pointed out elsewhere that the extra "greenish" color seen on the white keywest (in addition to the filter applied) may also be a factor of the level to which the lume has been "charged". In other words, I can imagine that if the face had been sitting under bright workbench lights for quite some time, the lume would be more charged and more "luminescent", and therefore the green glow that shows in the dark would be more apparent in the "daylight". Whereas, maybe if the lume wasn't fully charged/glowing, it would take on the more cream color of the Moby Kingston.....maybe?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





BigHaole said:


> Excellent point. On top of white balance, filter, and lighting, a little charge on the like can definitely have this effect.


Exactly right. In fact, C3 tends to appear brighter. Even BGW9 when charged can glow in normal lighting...










I'm confident that the Moby Kingston has white lume markers (BGW9 lume, I'd guess). There was discussion in the past in which I recall Bill saying he'd give the white dials' markers a greenish or vintage hue to stand out better. White BGW9 markers like on black just wouldn't work.


----------



## messenius

Chromejob said:


> White BGW9 markers like on black just wouldn't work.


It might just work if the dial is glossy as the lume itself it matt. YOu can see the effect on Kingston. Of course the appearance would be different but not necessarily bad - albino like


----------



## Chromejob

Um ... No. White on white, with shiny gold that disappears depending on the light, would be difficult to see.


----------



## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> Um ... No. White on white, with shiny gold that disappears depending on the light, would be difficult to see.


Initially I had some concern about this but even in a white out you should be able to easily see the hands so you will be able to tell time which makes me much less concerned.


----------



## Pentameter

supersmitty said:


> Am I missing something or need new contacts or something? Or does the lume look completely different when you compare the white whale to the white KW? To my eyes, the KW lume (assuming its C3... I think it is) appears greener more florescent than the softer more 'vanilla-ish' hue of the Moby Kingston? The lume on moby also appears more three dimensional (i.e. raised) than that of KW.
> I know these are two different watches... but was under the impression that moby was the unofficial prototype for the white gilded Key West. Does anyone know what lume is on moby?
> Is what I'm looking the difference between C3 and BGW9, is comparing these photo's against each other unreasonable or is my mind playing tricks on me?!? :-s
> (queue the Geto Boys)


the latter pic, apart from having a filter on it, looks "charged" meaning the lume is glowing having been exposed to bright light. In the first pic it does not seem to be glowing at all.

edit: gnome666 beat me to it


----------



## Chromejob

White Tuna said:


> Initially I had some concern about this but even in a white out you should be able to easily see the hands so you will be able to tell time which makes me much less concerned.


Perhaps. In many conditions the gold and rhodium hands kind of disappear on me. Look at enough of my pics and you'll see what I mean. Heck, look at the videos I posted. The white seconds hand of the Nassau stands out when the rhodium is kinda stealthy. Reflective versus "painted."

Then again! If the gilt of the hands are dark against the gloss white of the dial, they may be silhouetted! You vanilla/Moby Key West owners may astound us with a cool visual effect.

Wonder if Bill would let me drive up and do a video shoot.... 

// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## powerband

Chromejob said:


> Wonder if Bill would let me drive up and do a video shoot....


This would be great!


----------



## Thieuster

Many of Bill's pics & stories include some sort of coffee. Perhaps some Kopi Luwak coffee can convince him to share some of his secrets ;-)

Menno


----------



## Chromejob

Is that the coffee processed out an ocelot's patootie or something? If it's half as good as it's reputed to be, some o' that would convince me to do many things. 


// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## Thieuster

> Is that the coffee processed out an ocelot's patootie or something?


 Yes, it is. A nation-wide franchise overhere, called 'Kaldi' (HQ in my home town) sells coffee like at S'bucks'. They also sell coffee machines from Jura and various sorts of coffee beans, including the one mentioned before.


----------



## Darwin

My wife brought a sample of Kopi Luwak coffee sachets that she was given in the Inchon Airport on her way home from a business trip. The beans are processed after they are recovered from ocelot offerings - best coffee I've ever had, no lie.



Chromejob said:


> Is that the coffee processed out an ocelot's patootie or something? If it's half as good as it's reputed to be, some o' that would convince me to do many things.
> 
> // Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## BigHaole

Darwin said:


> My wife brought a sample of Kopi Luwak coffee sachets that she was given in the Inchon Airport on her way home from a business trip. The beans are processed after they are recovered from ocelot offerings - best coffee I've ever had, no lie.


The animal is actually a civet (Civet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I have heard very mixed stories about the coffee, but most of them are negative, due to the low quality coffee beans being "processed" by the civet. There is also a Brazilian bird that eats coffee cherries and poops out the beans. Some industrious person has started to sell this, as well. I've read that it tastes better, due to the higher quality of coffee used. Please note, BigHaole has never tried either poop coffee, and offers no personal opinion on it.

All that being said, today I enjoyed a fantastic dry processed Ethiopian Yirga Cheffe, that I roasted myself. Now THAT is delicious coffee!


----------



## Toiyabe

gnome666 said:


> not that anyone needs a tutorial on how to read a gmt dial (probably) but this link is worth it for the animation at the top of the page alone
> 
> How GMT Watches Work - Gear Patrol


It's too bad that it's riddled with massive factual inaccuracies, all easily caught with a tiny bit of fact-checking.

Oh well, that's a great way to make me think they have no idea of what they're talking about.


----------



## powerband

BigHaole said:


> The animal is actually a civet (Civet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I have heard very mixed stories about the coffee, but most of them are negative, due to the low quality coffee beans being "processed" by the civet. There is also a Brazilian bird that eats coffee cherries and poops out the beans. Some industrious person has started to sell this, as well. I've read that it tastes better, due to the higher quality of coffee used. Please note, BigHaole has never tried either poop coffee, and offers no personal opinion on it.
> 
> All that being said, today I enjoyed a fantastic dry processed Ethiopian Yirga Cheffe, that I roasted myself. Now THAT is delicious coffee!


Yes. And there is the ethical concern that the entrepreneurial many have raised farmed Civets that are forced-fed coffee beans, with egregious cage-living conditions. But if ethics isn't your concern, then consider that these farmed Civets are fed mostly low-quality, cheap beans that yield coffee taste far worse than the 1980s Instant coffee from a plastic tub. And if crappy tasting Civet-pooped coffee beans don't make a difference to your morning cup of perk, then consider that a large portion of them are faked and never been through the digestive tract of a single Civet, yet are sold on the Internet for nearly the same prices of the authentic Civet-defecated beans -- upward of 250 USD per 2 pounds.

I like organic coffee beans, but up to a point. ️

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## gnome666

Toiyabe said:


> It's too bad that it's riddled with massive factual inaccuracies, all easily caught with a tiny bit of fact-checking.
> 
> Oh well, that's a great way to make me think they have no idea of what they're talking about.


I like the animation. It's purdy...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

I like that this GMT is a fraction under 40mm. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Thevenin

So it begins


----------



## Thevenin




----------



## JPMIA

It is becoming impossible to decide!!! 
Thanks Bill!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentameter

Thevenin said:


> So it begins


*OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11*


----------



## Pentameter

ITS SO CREAMY!!!!! #DIES


----------



## Darwin

Wow... this is making life harder. Decisions, decisions...

First world problems indeed!


----------



## BigHaole

I was thinking...something just doesn't look right about this. Then it hit me. This watch needs a bezel! We haven't seen any bezel prototypes yet!!!

So, is this an oversight?
Is the KeyWest going to be a "naked" GMT?
Is Bill planning to surprise us with a sapphire crystal bezel with lumed markers?

But in all seriousness, I'd love to see how the actual blue of the Pepsi bezel looks. I'm hoping for the darker blue proposed earlier in the design thread.


----------



## Dragoon

I thought it would be an easy black gilt with pepsi decision. Now, after seeing the albino dial configuration I might have to get one of those, too!

I think the black gilt is a no brainer and will be much more versatile. The albino "Pan Am" will always be about impossible to obtain after released into the wild or at least much more rare, I would imagine.


----------



## Thieuster

WOW WOW WOW (and many more of these!) Again, I'm pushed off the fence where I was: deciding to go for the black + gilt or white + gilt. I cannot make up my mind.

And guys did you see the open '6'!?

Menno

EDIT: I'm under the impression that the NY GTG will be the moment when the curtain will be lifted: I think that Bill will bring a fully assembled KW on stage. What do you think?

EDIT II: I just visited the FB page -again-. Now, what's the colour of the lumen? On my MacBook's screen it looks as it's C3.

M.


----------



## dwg

BigHaole said:


> I was thinking...something just doesn't look right about this. Then it hit me. This watch needs a bezel! We haven't seen any bezel prototypes yet!!!


the gmt actually looks cool without a bezel.


----------



## Pentameter

here's a quick PS mock-up using a GMT-master bezel


----------



## Dutchman72

Pentameter said:


> here's a quick PS mock-up using a GMT-master bezel
> 
> View attachment 3716842




Sent from beyond the stars


----------



## Chromejob

Thieuster said:


> ... And guys did you see the open '6'!?
> 
> ...
> EDIT II: I just visited the FB page -again-. Now, what's the colour of the lumen? On my MacBook's screen it looks as it's C3.
> 
> M.


Yep, the open "6" is a thing of beauty.

Remember, the daytime color of the hour marker material does not have to be a specific color in relation to it's nighttime glow color, according to what I read from LumiNova. It can be green/green, or cream/green, or white/blue, or green/blue I suppose even.

// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## Elf1962

Pentameter said:


> here's a quick PS mock-up using a GMT-master bezel
> 
> View attachment 3716842


Can you do the same with a a Coke bezel....your pepsi looks great!


----------



## Thevenin

Thieuster said:


> EDIT: I'm under the impression that the NY GTG will be the moment when the curtain will be lifted: I think that Bill will bring a fully assembled KW on stage. What do you think?


That definitely I won't miss :-d GTG confirmed yet?


----------



## Pentameter

Elf1962 said:


> Can you do the same with a a Coke bezel....your pepsi looks great!


here ya go:


----------



## BigHaole

Who's going to be the first one to attach an aftermarket cyclops (is there such a thing?) to make that open 6 really big and bold and beautiful?


----------



## BigHaole

Also, I just noticed that the instagram pictures said that the dial passed and will now go to mass production. Does that mean that the black dial and the hands already have?


----------



## TheMeasure

Pentameter said:


> here ya go:


M A N..that vanilla coke Key West is something else. Thanks for the mockups.


----------



## MHe225

Thieuster said:


> WOW WOW WOW (and many more of these!) Again, I'm pushed off the fence where I was: deciding to go for the black + gilt or white + gilt. I cannot make up my mind.


I'm still right where I've been from day 1: white + gilt. None of the photos disappoints or forces me to question my decision / choice.

I've managed to keep my enthusiasm and patience in check for the past 1186 days (that's 3 years and 3 months to the day, but who's counting) but with these pics and the finish-line insight, I can barely wait any longer ......

This is going to be yet another extremely fine MKII product |>


----------



## Knoc

Subscribed!


----------



## eXis10z

Pentameter said:


> here's a quick PS mock-up using a GMT-master bezel
> 
> View attachment 3716842


I was so steadfast in my decision for black gilt all along. And now I've just gotten my pre-order slot, I have no idea which to choose thanks to your mock up.

I hate you!


----------



## Eric90

eXis10z said:


> I was so steadfast in my decision for black gilt all along. And now I've just gotten my pre-order slot, I have no idea which to choose thanks to your mock up.
> 
> I hate you!
> 
> Well, I have about 24 hours to decide.


Things may have changed since my Pre-Order in October - but I believe you don't have to make a choice re the Dial/Bezel until the watches are ready for assembly. I'm not sure that the plank holders have had to make a decision yet?

Should give you time to make then change then make your mind plenty of times!


----------



## Neily_San

Eric90 said:


> 'm not sure that the plank holders have had to make a decision


I have not yet been asked to choose my dial & bezel configuration on my plank order.

I guess the wait is almost over. 
:-D
Neily


----------



## TheDude

Is it just me or does that NOT look like the crown we were shown? Sorry, but that thing is a 21st Century crown... 

Hoping he just threw something on and it's not the final. Certainly doesn't look like it. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric90

TheDude said:


> Is it just me or does that NOT look like the crown we were shown? Sorry, but that thing is a 21st Century crown...
> 
> Hoping he just threw something on and it's not the final. Certainly doesn't look like it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Could be wrong - but it looks like its the same as pictured here. Does not look like the Key West crown pictured earlier on the MK Instagram


----------



## TheDude

Eric90 said:


> Could be wrong - but it looks like its the same as pictured here. Does not look like the Key West crown pictured earlier on the MK Instagram
> 
> View attachment 3724130
> View attachment 3724202


Well, it doesn't look like the one in your first picture either. I'm really hoping we aren't looking at the shipping crown in the white dial pic...

Historically, MkII has had a VERY hard time getting crowns produced with the shoulders around the top of the crown routed out. The sample clearly shows this area properly formed, but if this area wasn't machined enough it would look very much like the crown in the white dial photo.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> Is it just me or does that NOT look like the crown we were shown? Sorry, but that thing is a 21st Century crown...
> 
> Hoping he just threw something on and it's not the final. Certainly doesn't look like it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I am much more concerned with the bracelet.










But I agree. We should all cancel our orders.


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> I am much more concerned with the bracelet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I agree. We should all cancel our orders.


So, to summarize, the Key West currently has:
-Naked bezel
-Transparent bracelet (riveted?)
-Air Crystal
-Funky crown

Some interesting design choices...


----------



## White Tuna

I think that black thing is the bracelet and it holds onto your arm like a vice or bike lock. I saw one in club once.


----------



## Chromejob

I'm probably wrong, but wasn't the KW getting the Nassau crown? I just reset my Nassau, and I like the crown/tube feel action better than the Kingston. Just saying.... and also saying...


----------



## Chromejob

Attn: 6542 fans

Just FYI. Have a vodka martini in a gold-frosted tulip glass. And a close shave, because ... you like close shaves, don't you.



















// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## STEELINOX

[edited for non relevant content]


----------



## Cleans Up

I've been waiting for the pics, and I think this seals it as a win for white. Not to mention I have a lot of black watches already... Now pepsi or coke? Pepsi is traditional, and period correct but I'm kinda liking the coke bezel


----------



## White Tuna

It will be hard to determine if you prefer the Pepsi or Coke Bezels until you see the shades used. I think I would prefer a darker blue and darker red for the Pepsi bezel.


----------



## Darwin

Agreed. I'm hurrying up and waiting on photos of actual, assembled watches before I make a hard and fast decision on dial colour, gilt vs matte, and bezel insert... All I know for sure is that I'm going to be getting a watch that shares its proportions (and case) with my Kingston and that it will have a GMT hand, a date display and "Key West" on the dial!



White Tuna said:


> It will be hard to determine if you prefer the Pepsi or Coke Bezels until you see the shades used. I think I would prefer a darker blue and darker red for the Pepsi bezel.


----------



## Plat0

I think I'm in for white Pepsi.


----------



## Cleans Up

White Tuna said:


> It will be hard to determine if you prefer the Pepsi or Coke Bezels until you see the shades used. I think I would prefer a darker blue and darker red for the Pepsi bezel.


Exactly, I hope we wont have to decide prior to final qc photos from Bill. Given his fastidious nature I'm sure we'll have some photos to drool over before too long


----------



## powerband

I'm getting impatient waiting for this KW.

Then I'm reminded how long this dude waited for his astronaut colleagues to return.












Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

Chromejob said:


> I'm probably wrong, but wasn't the KW getting the Nassau crown? I just reset my Nassau, and I like the crown/tube feel action better than the Kingston. Just saying.... and also saying...


No. Not getting the Nassau crown. Bill confirmed it gets its own crown, closer to that of the Vantage. I actually like the Nassau crown and tube the least of all my MkII - wobbly imo.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Wobbly crown is no good. My Kingston had a pretty sturdy crown. Hopefully this GMT will have the same quality.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

Wobbly? Mine isn't wobbly. I don't try to jigger with it though....


// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


----------



## Darwin

Lately, my Kingston crown has felt a tad wobbly and like it is possibly starting to get cross-threaded. However, about an hour ago I tried the waxed floss trick that is commonly suggested here and on other watch fora and all is now good. In fact, it is buttery smooth and feels very positive (ie, it feels like the crown is properly threaded onto the tube without first turning it counter clock-wise to "feel" for the threads. I wasn't brave enough to try it, though!).

I'm sure that the Key West will have a similarly robust and smooth crown and tube.


----------



## 66Cooper

I can assume that you are talking about but can you post up a good explanation or link to one for the floss trick. Sounds cool.


----------



## Darwin

Heh, heh - I did the same thing - read about the floss trick but couldn't find a single post that explained how to do it, thus what follows is what I did after I plugged my nose and dove in head first (the alternative was to send my beloved Kingston off to MKII for an indeterminate, but presumably prolonged, period of time while Bill or Jason worked their magic on it. Anyway, the most information I could find was to use waxed floss and to unscrew and pull out the crown fully, to the setting position. Going in, I assumed I'd be able to wrap the floss around the screw threads and simply pull one end... Well, obviously two things work against this: 1. physics - the floss binds against itself and you can't pull one end to produce the action I sought and 2. more practically, the threaded tube is a lot smaller than I assumed and it would be very difficult to wrap it s I had envisioned. So,... I basically used the floss *sort of* as I use it on my teeth, in a gentle sawing motion and went around the tube with it until I felt that I had removed the grit/laid down wax, over the entire threaded portion of the tube. Went through two 6" lengths of floss to get to this point. Did my damndest to avoid touching and damaging the rubber seal. Was so pleased with the result that I did the same to my HR 6538 with similar results and will eventually do all of my watches with threaded crowns.

If this isn't clear, please ask questions and I'll answer if I am able!



66Cooper said:


> I can assume that you are talking about but can you post up a good explanation or link to one for the floss trick. Sounds cool.


----------



## 66Cooper

That's what I assumed. Brilliant!!


----------



## Dragoon

Fairly straightforward I would think.

1. unscrew crown

2. secure watch in a position where threads can be flossed without watch moving from flossing action. (small vise or other devise with protection for watch.)

3. pull out a few feet of floss or less.

4. wrap some of the floss around the threads of the threaded crown tube and proceed to floss through the threaded crown tube.

Hope that helps.



66Cooper said:


> I can assume that you are talking about but can you post up a good explanation or link to one for the floss trick. Sounds cool.


----------



## 66Cooper

Well, as luck would have it, a new watch stand is arriving to my office any moment and already have the floss ready to go. 

My Kingston REALLY gets used. It's no queen. I'm sure this will be a very good thing as it's not often you get to clean the treads ever. I actually never really thought about it. 

That reminds actually. So, when the Kingston was being built, I remember that bill actually pressure tested a few with the crown open and they passed. Can't remember what the "depth" was but I thought that was such a cool thing. Shows how well this watch was designed and how sealed they really are.


----------



## gwold

Bill posted a welcome update to the Mk II Blog (2015-05-01: Project GMT Dials).



> 2 of the 3 dial version have gone into mass production. The gold/black and the white/gold are going into production in a few days. The matte black/white printed dial still has to be approved for production. I hope to get go that next week.


----------



## Jfha1210

gwold said:


> Bill posted a welcome update to the Mk II Blog (2015-05-01: Project GMT Dials).


How many of each one of them??? Ummm...

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

Jfha1210 said:


> How many of each one of them??? Ummm...


Don't think that makes any difference to anyone, does it?


----------



## Thieuster

gwold said:


> Bill posted a welcome update to the Mk II Blog (2015-05-01: Project GMT Dials).


Best news today! I would love to see them! Are there new pics somewehere?


----------



## BigHaole

Chromejob said:


> Don't think that makes any difference to anyone, does it?


I imagine, if you are not in the plank or early phase II pre-order, you might be worried about what options will be left, when it's your turn.


----------



## BigHaole

Has anyone noticed that there hasn't been much discussion (or samples) of the bezel? Could it be that Bill has a surprised planned for us? :think:


----------



## 66Cooper

Yeah, please post any and all pix when they are up. I'm not connected to all networks.


----------



## Thevenin

BigHaole said:


> I imagine, if you are not in the plank or early phase II pre-order, you might be worried about what options will be left, when it's your turn.


It is not supposed to work this way. Options are all options.

Edit: I hope?


----------



## Jfha1210

Chromejob said:


> Don't think that makes any difference to anyone, does it?


It does... 
How can he fit demand with supply if he hasn't asked the buyers? 
Let's say that he build 1/3 of each dial, and finally there is a 50/100 buyers asking for a guilt white and another 40/100 buyers asking for a guilt black... And only a 10/100 matte black dial. 
That for sure would delay a few watches, and it would finally affect him in costs (in my example, a 20/100 of unused dials).
From my very personal point of view, it would be easier and more efficient, in a limited edition of watches, asking before producing dials, but anyway, I'll be more than happy whenever I'll receive mine.

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Jfha1210 said:


> It does...
> How can he fit demand with supply if he hasn't asked the buyers?
> Let's say that he build 1/3 of each dial, and finally there is a 50/100 buyers asking for a guilt white and another 40/100 buyers asking for a guilt black... And only a 10/100 matte black dial.
> That for sure would delay a few watches, and it would finally affect him in costs (in my example, a 20/100 of unused dials).
> From my very personal point of view, it would be easier and more efficient, in a limited edition of watches, asking before producing dials, but anyway, I'll be more than happy whenever I'll receive mine.
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


That's too speculative, and besides, every watch with the "KEYWEST" name on it will sell out regardless of the dial it has = all will sell. Bill is doin it right.

How's that for some speculation !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Chromejob

I wonder if fish flavoured ice cream has bones in it? I mean, it could, right? :roll:


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> Has anyone noticed that there hasn't been much discussion (or samples) of the bezel? Could it be that Bill has a surprised planned for us? :think:


Yes, I did.... ;-)

 *Prepare To Be Amazed!!*

(That's my prediction....) ;-)

--- Best ---


----------



## White Tuna

Jfha1210 said:


> It does...
> How can he fit demand with supply if he hasn't asked the buyers?
> Let's say that he build 1/3 of each dial, and finally there is a 50/100 buyers asking for a guilt white and another 40/100 buyers asking for a guilt black... And only a 10/100 matte black dial.
> That for sure would delay a few watches, and it would finally affect him in costs (in my example, a 20/100 of unused dials).
> From my very personal point of view, it would be easier and more efficient, in a limited edition of watches, asking before producing dials, but anyway, I'll be more than happy whenever I'll receive mine.
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


I know the last 10 Kintstons only came in BGW9 and I was not able to order a non-date dial. I know because I would have preferred to order C3 and Date over non-date.


----------



## Chromejob

BigHaole said:


> I imagine, if you are not in the plank or early phase II pre-order, you might be worried about what options will be left, when it's your turn.





White Tuna said:


> I know the last 10 Kintstons only came in BGW9 and I was not able to order a non-date dial. I know because I would have preferred to order C3 and Date over non-date.


Actually, I remember now, at the very end some combinations were not available. The last ... 20 or thirty or so? Then, remember that all the plank kits came with one of each ... another "IRRC."

I still don't think it's worth worrying about. It's going to be a beautiful very limited watch, regardless of what you get.


----------



## Arthur

White Tuna said:


> I know the last 10 Kintstons only came in BGW9 and I was not able to order a non-date dial. I know because I would have preferred to order C3 and Date over non-date.


Same thing happened to me. I wanted a date dial with C3, by the time my number came up, there were only BGW9 available. Still and outstanding, beautiful watch!
This could very well happen with the tail end of the Key West orders as well. I believe Bill orders dials based on what he thinks the ratio will be, as well as comments from the folks here. Problem is, a lot of folks who were set on the Black/Gilt dials seem to be on the fence now, undecided since the White/ Gilt drawings were posted. Not going to be a problem for the folks who got in early, but possibly for the ones at the end. All in all, I can't remember anyone canceling their Kingston order because they couldn't get their first choice.

Dials in production, good news, hopefully we are getting close to seeing the Key West actually being assembled. I'm and early plank, hoping for sometimes this summer, early fall.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Yes, I did.... ;-)
> 
> *Prepare To Be Amazed!!*
> 
> (That's my prediction....) ;-)
> 
> --- Best ---


Man, I sincerely hope that you are right!!!)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## gnome666

Don't know if anyone one else saw this on the mkii Instagram, another look at the white dial kingston...









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Is that the best quality of the pic? Would love to see a nice, crisp shot of that.


----------



## gnome666

Yeah, I already mag'd it from the original. It seems like he may be purposefully not giving us a clear straight on picture of what it would look like.









Is it too much to ask to get a straight on, non filtered decent quality pic?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentameter

like this?


----------



## dwg

interestingly, I've just bought the same Kaweco pen trying to fight my watch lust and I got the new version with silver nib and sign, which looks much better, than the gold. I'm still not sure, if the same can be said about the dials and hands though


----------



## gnome666

Maybe Bill heard my plea. Thnx if your listening. Sold and sold. Looks as good as I hoped it would. Just imagining a pepsi bezel and drooling on myself.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cleans Up

hot damn! that white dialed kingston looks great. I've always thought I'd go white, but the pics have sealed this one up tight for me. White dial GMT it'll be. Thanks Bill


----------



## TheMeasure

a little update..
2015-05-13: Project GMT Date Wheels


----------



## gnome666

For those that don't follow MKII instagram.









Interesting part is that the tag of the photo calls it a white dialed Nassau (?). Mistake?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

Yes. A mistake. Zoom in and you can see it's the 1 of 1 white Kingston.


----------



## TheDude

66Cooper said:


> Yes. A mistake. Zoom in and you can see it's the 1 of 1 white Kingston.


Not to mention the diver bezel and big crown...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Does anyone know if MKII will make bracelet available to purchase? Thinking about getting an extra for the Key West.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

I seriously doubt bill will sell them separately


----------



## mlb212

powerband said:


> Does anyone know if MKII will make bracelet available to purchase? Thinking about getting an extra for the Key West.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


I thought he was just going to use the Kingston/Nassau bracelet?


----------



## powerband

mlb212 said:


> I thought he was just going to use the Kingston/Nassau bracelet?


Yes, it will be the same bracelet. But my question is about its availability for purchase as a stand-alone item. I'd like to own a "back-up" for my Key West, as I plan to wear it on the original bracelet.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## mlb212

powerband said:


> Yes, it will be the same bracelet. But my question is about its availability for purchase as a stand-alone item. I'd like to own a "back-up" for my Key West, as I plan to wear it on the original bracelet.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Why don't you just buy it?


----------



## 66Cooper

Wow, I really would not have thought bill would sell the bracelet separate. Very interesting. Well priced too. It's a fine bracelet.


----------



## powerband

mlb212 said:


> Why don't you just buy it?
> 
> View attachment 4089241


Oh heck, I never saw this on the website! I definitely will buy it. Thanks a bunch for this.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

The Key West is coming. An homage to those interesting days of commercial air travel across the globe in record times, thanks to new aircraft and vigorous competition in amenities (since fares were regulated). Including dressing up the "dolls" for the benefit of the "tired businessman" (Mary Wells' words, not mine!).

I got to kill some time this evening indulging in 1950s commercial air travel nostalgia....

































OH, speaking of TWA:

























The Lockheed Constellation, and Super Connie. Possibly the most gorgeous aircraft ever designed and built.


















Okay, one more 1950s icon to send you to sleep with...


----------



## Toiyabe

Thanks for the photos!


----------



## JBowen

New guy here. Going to pick up a Nassau soon but I am wondering if there is any information on a GO GMT? Similar to the Kingston/Nassau.

I realize the chokehold that the Swatch group has on ETA movements will probably make it not happen, but am curious to any insight


----------



## AndyS

Hi! I am new to this forum but not new to MKII. I still have my Bill Yao Modified Seiko 007 which was a gift from my parents after I graduated med school. I am very interested in possibly ordering a Project GMT watch. It reminds me of the Rolex 6542 aka The Pussy Galore (since it was worn by Honor Blackman in Goldfinger). That being said, I was wondering if the watch will be available with a cyclops on the crystal, just like the 6542? If it will that would be fantastic!

Props to Bill Yao for making fantastic watches!


----------



## Chromejob

No cyclops is planned, though nothing's stopping anyone put one on after. 

It reminds you of the 6542? It's no accident.  I'll let you deduce why....


----------



## BigHaole

Date wheels!









Talk of bezel refinement!!


----------



## tmoris

it would appear that this thing really is happenning! I had no children when I have ordered one, now I have two of those and trust to see one of these before they go to college! yey!


----------



## 66Cooper

Haha! Now thats funny. Wait, how long has this been going on? I am pretty sure I had one at the start and now two now. At least I wont feel bad about which kid gets which. The Kingston and the Key West are both going to be great watches for them...when they are old enough to appreciate them...and if my wife doesnt steal one


----------



## powerband

I cannot grow tired of looking at those 6s and 9s on the datewheel. 


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

Between job changes and company acquisitions, I'm on my 4th employer, since the time I ordered my KeyWest. How long was the Kingston from order to 1st watch delivered? From 1st watch to last watch delivered? I'm hoping we at least beat the 1st to last watch, since there are fewer variables/combinations.


----------



## Jfha1210

Have you seen the brand new Steinhart Ocean One Vintage Dual Time???









Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## Jfha1210

840 €, with a SOPROD A10-24h TOP movement...


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## mlb212

Jfha1210 said:


> Have you seen the brand new Steinhart Ocean One Vintage Dual Time???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


This is awkward...


----------



## tmoris

it would appear that Gunther at least finally found out that the previous hand set was horrible and got it replaced with straight ones 

42mm is meh tho


----------



## Hasaf

Jfha1210 said:


> Have you seen the brand new Steinhart Ocean One Vintage Dual Time???


I am extremely glad it's 42mm. If it were 40mm I would be thinking hard; at 38mm-39mm I would be placing an order right now and the Rolex/GS fund would suffer. As it is. . . I like Steinharts; but they are too big.


----------



## Darwin

Well... that answers my question about the availability of a Soprod A10 with a GMT module... (yes, answered earlier in this thread by other posters who took the time to read the Soprod site, but this is the first application I've seen of the movement). Maybe there's hope for MKII GMT watches post-ETA/Swatch embargo (theirs against micro-brands, not the other way around, at least not in Bill's case).

Overall, I'm glad to see a photo of a GMT homage with the white dial/pepsi bezel (as opposed to a computer rendering). The Steinhart doesn't excite me that much but it does make me much more excited about the Key West!


----------



## 66Cooper

Interesting but 42mm is not for me. Thankfully What color is the dial exactly? A vintagized silver?

Went on site. Says the dial is a "beige vintage..." Also, didnt notice the red. Tudor-like crown tube. A bit strange to me. Crown looks like its too far out and that the tube is too thin. Could just be pix though.


----------



## Thieuster

mlb212 said:


> This is awkward...


Ugly, in fact! As always, Steinhart is out of synch with it comes to homages.

Menno


----------



## gnome666

Thieuster said:


> Ugly, in fact! As always, Steinhart is out of synch with it comes to homages.
> 
> Menno


Is it just me, or does it seem weird that every time an MKII watch is announced and the ordering frenzy and excitement ensues, a very similar watch is released from steinhart? I don't know much about their ownership, but....hear me out.

When the 369 Nassau was in the works, there was tons of excitement of course with people talking about how long they had been waiting for a 369 Sub homage etc etc. Coincidentally, around the time that MKII were in the assembly phase of the 369 nassau, Steinhart announces the release of their 369 vintage diver.....hm. At the time I thought it was strange but of course there is no copyright on the design and the steinhart watch had diff specs so maybe it was just a coincidence.

But now this makes me wonder again. This gmt is slightly different than the key west, but many of the key design points that were discussed so thoroughly on this subforum, and obviously popular, seem to have ended up in the steinhart watch. Note the small gmt hand triangle. The white dial. The pepsi bezel. Roulette date wheel.....

Again, I am not judging one way or another. And I think the steinhart watch looks pretty good too. But to me it seems like all of the design decisions for a popular watch are fleshed out by Bill and the input of those of us in these forums, and then this other company produces an almost exactly similar watch. I'm sure they will get some market share from folks who can't get the key west or like bigger size watches, but if my suspicions are true, it just seems kinda shady. My two cents.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Darwin

Not only are Steinhart watches too big at 42mm (not unforgiveable - I love my LRRP) but even this updated case has a rather - IMNHO - unattractive case side profile. I owned an OVM 1 for almost two years and could never get past the side view. Otherwise a great looking watch with great build quality for the money but a tad too big and I'd catch a glimpse down my arm of the case in side view and "Ugh".


----------



## Pentameter

I agree… their lugs are never quite right. Although they do look better on this piece than on previous ones. I'll stick with the KW. Good things come to those who wait!


----------



## B.Boston

If I had the funding to do so, I would start with sites like this to find out what people want in a watch. I think it would be smart of Steinhart to see the built up demand for this watch and put it out before MKII can release. 

Shady? Maybe. But this is an open forum, and business is business. It's not like they stole any information from MKII, just saw the demand and beat him to market. I bet the MKII's version will be of much higher quality and tighter tolerances (plus a better size with the 40mm case), but I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be happy to get the Steinhart with the scarce availability of the MKII, and expense of the Rolex GMT models which they derive from.


----------



## gnome666

B.Boston said:


> If I had the funding to do so, I would start with sites like this to find out what people want in a watch. I think it would be smart of Steinhart to see the built up demand for this watch and put it out before MKII can release.
> 
> Shady? Maybe. But this is an open forum, and business is business. It's not like they stole any information from MKII, just saw the demand and beat him to market. I bet the MKII's version will be of much higher quality and tighter tolerances (plus a better size with the 40mm case), but I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be happy to get the Steinhart with the scarce availability of the MKII, and expense of the Rolex GMT models which they derive from.


I don't disagree with any part of what you said. There's no doubt that the key west will be an entirely different watch, albeit with similar design cues. After all, the keywest is modeled after another watch too. It just feels slightly wrong to me somehow. Like at least MKII should get a chance to show their finished product.

Oh well. Still can't wait to see a fully assembled keywest. I'm fairly certain it will look better and be better than the steinhart, and I must admit, the steinhart looks pretty good (visually) to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## B.Boston

I think many who put down plank orders would say the Key West has had PLENTY of time to have its finished product revealed! haha
I don't think I even know about MKII when those went out, but I've been on the e-mail list for more orders. 

Maybe that is the difference though, MKII put it out there that this watch was coming and used plank orders to fund the design and build process, where Steinhart just went ahead and built it, and is now selling it (from what I can tell). For all we know both companies could have had these watches on the drawing board for the same amount of time (doubtful, but possible), but since MKII come out and took pre-orders we found out about it much sooner.

It's just too bad MKII's are so hard to get!


----------



## tmoris

B.Boston said:


> If I had the funding to do so, I would start with sites like this to find out what people want in a watch. I think it would be smart of Steinhart to see the built up demand for this watch and put it out before MKII can release.
> 
> Shady? Maybe. But this is an open forum, and business is business. It's not like they stole any information from MKII, just saw the demand and beat him to market. I bet the MKII's version will be of much higher quality and tighter tolerances (plus a better size with the 40mm case), but I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be happy to get the Steinhart with the scarce availability of the MKII, and expense of the Rolex GMT models which they derive from.


One thing is to know what people want and another entirely different thing is being able to deliver it.

I dont think steinhart is able to deliver much better than what they already did with their panam homage.

They use generic parts that are widely available and that dont differ all that much from a parnis. Okay, this may sound harsh, but the level of quality used in their parts is just pretty bad in my eyes.. every time i see their 22mm non tapering bracelets and sharp casebacks makes me shiver..


----------



## B.Boston

tmoris said:


> One thing is to know what people want and another entirely different thing is being able to deliver it.
> 
> I dont think steinhart is able to deliver much better than what they already did with their panam homage.
> 
> They use generic parts that are widely available and that dont differ all that much from a parnis. Okay, this may sound harsh, but the level of quality used in their parts is just pretty bad in my eyes.. every time i see their 22mm non tapering bracelets and sharp casebacks makes me shiver..


Yeah their case size and shape was the main reason I didn't get one. I wanted a Nassau, but the prices got crazy. I ended up with a Squale 20 atmos, the case size and shape are nice. Still no MKII, but I like it so far!

A GMT watch is next in my list, and those Key Wests check off almost every box. I just wish the movement would let you adjust the hour hand without changing the GMT hand like a proper Rolex GMT master ii.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

B.Boston said:


> I think many who put down plank orders would say the Key West has had PLENTY of time to have its finished product revealed! haha


Bingo!

Different strokes for different watch companies. Everyone has their market. MKII is only looking to sell 300-ish of these, while I would expect that Steinhart plans to sell many more than that. Besides there is no point in complaining about one copying the other, when they are both trying to re-imagine something Rolex did many decades ago.


----------



## Dragoon

nf


----------



## Dragoon

Not a bad business model but building watches and creating watches from scratch is not for the faint of heart or meek. And, better have some deep pockets if you want to survive.

But, aside from that.

Steinhart had already produced an homage to the early Rolex GMT in a whitish dial a number of years ago. I am reluctant to think that they needed inspiration from MKII. And, their earlier Rolex GMT was made for the Danish watch forum I believe. It had a different movement, dial, and appearance overall. But, it was more likely the catalyst as it was very well received.

Also, the folks at Steinhart are very keen themselves at what is wanted in the watch community without much assistance from others. Just look at their lineup and their new factory/offices. Gunther Steinhart has been doing this much of his life I would assume and is quite knowledgeable. They have developed their ST1 series of movements. They are good folk.

I am on board with one and will post some pics when it arrives. Seems like an interesting piece to me. And, the price is also very aggressive especially with a Soprod A-10 GMT movement. I imagine these will move briskly once word is out.



B.Boston said:


> If I had the funding to do so, I would start with sites like this to find out what people want in a watch. I think it would be smart of Steinhart to see the built up demand for this watch and put it out before MKII can release.
> 
> Shady? Maybe. But this is an open forum, and business is business. It's not like they stole any information from MKII, just saw the demand and beat him to market. I bet the MKII's version will be of much higher quality and tighter tolerances (plus a better size with the 40mm case), but I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be happy to get the Steinhart with the scarce availability of the MKII, and expense of the Rolex GMT models which they derive from.


----------



## Chromejob

I can only say ... _Fly with the best, or fly with the rest...._










Before this gets too out of hand, as a Steinhart OBDLC owner (who converted to milsub with Omega SM300 hands -- and Mk II spear sweep second hand -- a full year or more before Steinhart "suddenly" came out with the Ocean One Vintage Military), I can't say I'm surprised.

I also can't act surprised that this Ocean One Vintage Dual Time appears to be the same huge case, little red-stemmed crown, and domed crystal used for their 6200-inspired Ocean One Vintage.

Key differences:

 Non-gilt dial
 Patterned, dress watch reminiscent dial
 Ecru/peach lume markers, either you love it or hate it
 Lollipop sweep second hand (and it looks like Steinhart has finally got proportions right, the pip passing between the baton hour markers and the hour hand's pip, the back end eclipsing the hour hand pip) --NOPE, in gallery pic 2 of 15, pip clearly blocks baton hour marker, derp
 Unusual red stem treatment on the crown
 Bezel appears to be in later 1675-style cadet blue, not navy blue
 Non-rivet style, modern proportioned SS bracelet. 
 Modern style exhibition caseback, vice 1950s style mirrored caseback

Note it's a unidirectional diver bezel. GMT watches don't need a unidirectional bezel. The Key West may have one, too, so....

The KW is still a LE forum project, not a production model, so kudos to Steinhart for providing a mass market homage that will scratch the itch for anyone who tires of the Mk II production cadence, or the difficulty in getting an LE wants a 6542-style GMT Master design watch.

The Ocean One Vintage was tempting until I tallied up all the goofs (IMHO) the model has: monotone gold all over the dial and hands, ugly ecru lume, very imprecise printing of the 3-6-9 lettering, awkward ship's portal round proportion of the case/bezel on the bracelet, superfluous and anachronistic red crown stem detail,... and on. Many Steinhart customers love their O1V, and more power to them, it's an eye-catching and successful early diver homage. But when I take a jeweller's loupe to my Nassau, the incredible crisp printing of the 3-6-9 gilt dial is unequalled.

The Key West will compare similarly, I think. We'll see.

I'm just hoping that Bill can complete one in time for the 70th anniversary (July) of the introduction of the Lockheed L-049 Constellation to commercial flight, a model that surely represents the era that the Key West GMT project honors.


----------



## Pentameter

There's nothing wrong w/ Steinhart doing this, and just like in baseball, there's no crying in business. 

Part of Steinhart's goal w/ this was to beat MkII to market, as it's almost certainly an inferior watch (not BAD, just inferior to the KW). Part of the motivation for another company to step in and do something like this is the long development / production time for any MkII piece. However, like I said before, good things come to those who wait, and I am betting that the MkII version will be head & shoulders above the Dual Time, and a big part of that is all that extra time invested to get everything just right… that, and Bill's insane attention to detail. 

And additionally FWIW, I think it's much cooler to have a watch that is born from a community of enthusiasts, who all helped shape the design & development of the piece and waited patiently together over the course of many years for it to be brought to bare. There's just way more story & heritage to a piece like that, even when it is a homage - it gives it it's own unique story apart from the watch that it is based on. 

But I reiterate there's nothing wrong with Steinhart's DT. It's a different watch, and very nice, but not the one I would choose.


----------



## Pentameter

Chromejob said:


> I can only say ... _Fly with the best, or fly with the rest...._
> 
> &#8230;
> 
> Note it's a unidirectional diver bezel. GMT watches don't need a unidirectional bezel. The Key West may have one, too, so....


All the previous MkII 24-hour bezels were friction, were they not? If so I don't see why he would change that.


----------



## Darwin

Not the one on my LRRP UTC with 48 click bezel:











Pentameter said:


> All the previous MkII 24-hour bezels were friction, were they not? If so I don't see why he would change that.


----------



## Pentameter

interesting… so that's a click, but is it Uni?


----------



## gnome666

Dragoon said:


> Not a bad business model but building watches and creating watches from scratch is not for the faint of heart or meek. And, better have some deep pockets if you want to survive.
> 
> But, aside from that.
> 
> Steinhart had already produced an homage to the early Rolex GMT in a whitish dial a number of years ago. I am reluctant to think that they needed inspiration from MKII. And, their earlier Rolex GMT was made for the Danish watch forum I believe. It had a different movement, dial, and appearance overall. But, it was more likely the catalyst as it was very well received.
> 
> Also, the folks at Steinhart are very keen themselves at what is wanted in the watch community without much assistance from others. Just look at their lineup and their new factory/offices. Gunther Steinhart has been doing this much of his life I would assume and is quite knowledgeable. They have developed their ST1 series of movements. They are good folk.
> 
> I am on board with one and will post some pics when it arrives. Seems like an interesting piece to me. And, the price is also very aggressive especially with a Soprod A-10 GMT movement. I imagine these will move briskly once word is out.


All good points. Wasn't necessarily making a value judgment on steinhart. I do like some of their designs, but in the end can't handle the size of their watches.

I guess in reality I'm just impatient and want to see some fully assembled keywest action. The same thing that makes MKII so amazing (attention to detail) is what makes being a fan so hard sometimes. It's all for the best in the end. And I could deal with practicing patience. I hear it is a virtue after all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gnome666

Pentameter said:


> There's nothing wrong w/ Steinhart doing this, and just like in baseball, there's no crying in business.
> 
> Part of Steinhart's goal w/ this was to beat MkII to market, as it's almost certainly an inferior watch (not BAD, just inferior to the KW). Part of the motivation for another company to step in and do something like this is the long development / production time for any MkII piece. However, like I said before, good things come to those who wait, and I am betting that the MkII version will be head & shoulders above the Dual Time, and a big part of that is all that extra time invested to get everything just right&#8230; that, and Bill's insane attention to detail.
> 
> And additionally FWIW, I think it's much cooler to have a watch that is born from a community of enthusiasts, who all helped shape the design & development of the piece and waited patiently together over the course of many years for it to be brought to bare. There's just way more story & heritage to a piece like that, even when it is a homage - it gives it it's own unique story apart from the watch that it is based on.
> 
> But I reiterate there's nothing wrong with Steinhart's DT. It's a different watch, and very nice, but not the one I would choose.


+1 Well put.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## B.Boston

Does the Soprod A-10 GMT work like the ETA GMT movements? Or is it like the Rolex and Omega? Sounds like you might know a thing or two about it.


----------



## Darwin

I'm almost positive that it's unidirectional. However, in two years of ownership I doubt I've rotated the bezel more than three times! I'll have to check when I get home...



Pentameter said:


> interesting&#8230; so that's a click, but is it Uni?


----------



## powerband

I like what Mr. Steinhart does for his watch business, but the handful of times I owned a Steinhart watch, they seemed rushed in production and have overlooked quality.


----------



## Darwin

And I was wrong - just got home and gave the bezel a whirl... in both directions. Bi-directional it is...



Darwin said:


> I'm almost positive that it's unidirectional. However, in two years of ownership I doubt I've rotated the bezel more than three times! I'll have to check when I get home...


----------



## Pentameter

that's great news. I would prefer clicky to friction, I think (never had a 24-hr bezel before)… but whichever, as long as it's bi-directional it's RIGHT!


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## cybercat

Darwin said:


> And I was wrong - just got home and gave the bezel a whirl... in both directions. Bi-directional it is...


That's weird as the bezel on my LRRP GMT is uni-directional... :-s









(It's the non-HRV version if that makes any difference).


----------



## heebs

cybercat said:


> That's weird as the bezel on my LRRP GMT is uni-directional... :-s
> 
> View attachment 4203010
> 
> 
> (It's the non-HRV version if that makes any difference).


Nothing weird about it. Darwin has the UTC 48 model. Bill made a small number of watches with a 48 click bezel.


----------



## cybercat

***** said:


> Nothing weird about it. Darwin has the UTC 48 model. Bill made a small number of watches with a 48 click bezel.


Aha! That would explain it then; mine's 60 click. Thanks for clearing that up, *****! :-!
So we can look forward to a bi-directional one on the Key West.


----------



## Chromejob

cybercat said:


> That's weird as the bezel on my LRRP GMT is uni-directional... :-s
> 
> View attachment 4203010


I'd venture a suggestion that your bezel is primarily for dive timing and should be unidirectional.

If you're the least bit disappointed I can take it off your hands. That's one of the custom configs I was pricing in 2009ish.


----------



## cybercat

Chromejob said:


> I'd venture a suggestion that your bezel is primarily for dive timing and should be unidirectional.
> 
> If you're the least bit disappointed I can take it off your hands. That's one of the custom configs I was pricing in 2009ish.


'
That's very noble of you, Chromejob. ;-)

However, the uni-directional dive timer bezel with added GMT complication is why I stalked a few of these for such a long while before I managed to snag this one, which is perfect for me - so no dissapointment at all.

I'm also glad the Key West wil be bi-directional though, as no plans to use that one for diving. b-)


----------



## enkidu

B.Boston said:


> Does the Soprod A-10 GMT work like the ETA GMT movements? Or is it like the Rolex and Omega? Sounds like you might know a thing or two about it.


My understanding is that the Soprod A-10 GMT works as an ETA GMT module where the 24hr hand is independently adjustable as opposed to the Rolex/Omega/Seiko GMT complication where the 12hr hand is independently adjustable and the 24hr hand is slaved to the 12hr hand. The Steinhart Ocean One Vintage Dual Time uses the same movement and states (http://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/OCEAN-One-vintage-DUAL-Time-PREMIUM,949.html)


> The second time zone can be adjusted individually by either the fourth hand, painted in red with a small arrowhead, as well as by setting the unidirectional rotating bezel, which features a two-tone aluminum inlay with 24-hour scale.


----------



## BigHaole

enkidu said:


> My understanding is that the Soprod A-10 GMT works as an ETA GMT module where the 24hr hand is independently adjustable as opposed to the Rolex/Omega/Seiko GMT complication where the 12hr hand is independently adjustable and the 24hr hand is slaved to the 12hr hand.


One of the many things that the nice people at Rolex got right, and everyone else got wrong. But, I'll take what I can get.


----------



## Calibrel

Is it not optimal the be able to set the GMT hand independently from the hour?


----------



## TheDude

Calibrel said:


> Is it not optimal the be able to set the GMT hand independently from the hour?


It's not that per se. The idea is that you want the ability to change the hour hand without hacking the movement. What sometimes is referred to as a "true" GMT movement permits this. Say you travel to a different timezone you can move the hour hand forward or backward to the current zone and not change the accuracy of the time.

The only downside is that you can only change date by spinning the hour hand around and around and around... If you haven't worn the watch for days/weeks this can be a lot of crown work.

Rolex did get this right starting with the first GMT-II which I believe was the first to operate in this fashion. The most recent models inexplicably went to a 24 click bezel. Not as useful as a 48.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

Calibrel said:


> Is it not optimal the be able to set the GMT hand independently from the hour?


Depends upon your usage. If you want your primary display to be local time, being able to leave the 24h on a reference zone (GMT, or home base, or an FOB you're working with) and able to set the local hour hand without effecting the 24h hand or hacking is great. Did this plenty when deploying to the Caribbean from Alabama, and recording logs &c in Zulu time.

The way the ETA movement works, when you change the 12H hand, the 24H hand follows, so you would then have to readjust the 24H hand after resetting local. Fine if you're sitting in one place for a while, but if you're globetrotting (as continent-hopping airline pilots were doing for Pan Am and TWA, even if just the NY-LA and NY-SF routes), that could get tedious. So you'd want to use the 24H hand for local, leaving the 12H on "home" time. You'd need to be good at reading the 24H hand. 

Not everyone cares about this, thinking the GMT watch is just a watch that shows dual time zones, as opposed to the old "diplomat's watch" dilemma (wearing two wrist watches, or having a special model with two movements in it) of moving around a lot.

Add to this a complication that if you're a flyer, and limited to 8 hours flight time, or 12 hours mission time, before you're "bagged" and have to get a crew rest interval at the next stop, that bezel and the 24H hand becomes a handy way to time yourself. (Yes, you can use paper and pen, but hey ... if you have a cool piece of wrist technology that performs this for you ... use it!) IF it starts moving around when you change your other reference time (e.g. change from NY local time to LA local time), your measurement has gone kerflooey. Pffft.


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> The most recent models inexplicably went to a 24 click bezel. Not as useful as a 48.


Adjusting the bezel to set a timezone only works when for the timezones that are off by full hours, so 24 clicks. Why would you want 48 clicks? For the timezones like India, which are off by an extra half hour? I never understood the 48 click bezel.


----------



## TheDude

BigHaole said:


> Adjusting the bezel to set a timezone only works when for the timezones that are off by full hours, so 24 clicks. Why would you want 48 clicks? For the timezones like India, which are off by an extra half hour? I never understood the 48 click bezel.


Yeah, partial hour timezone offsets have always been the use case people cite. Rolex was 48 before the newest model...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## gnome666

TheDude said:


> It's not that per se. The idea is that you want the ability to change the hour hand without hacking the movement. What sometimes is referred to as a "true" GMT movement permits this. Say you travel to a different timezone you can move the hour hand forward or backward to the current zone and not change the accuracy of the time.
> 
> The only downside is that you can only change date by spinning the hour hand around and around and around... If you haven't worn the watch for days/weeks this can be a lot of crown work.
> 
> Rolex did get this right starting with the first GMT-II which I believe was the first to operate in this fashion. The most recent models inexplicably went to a 24 click bezel. Not as useful as a 48.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I completely agree that this can be a bit frustrating...especially in a non GMT watch. This is how the new Omega calibre works (at least the one in my AT 15,000 gauss). I love the watch, especially since it was a gift for a significant life event, but I can't understand why they thought to use this function in a non gmt watch. Every time I have to set the date, it's a royal pain in the a** and feels like I am putting a lot of strain on the movement. Still love the watch (I know people hate the bumblebee seconds hand, but it suits me just fine)









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheDude

gnome666 said:


> I completely agree that this can be a bit frustrating...especially in a non GMT watch. This is how the new Omega calibre works (at least the one in my AT 15,000 gauss). I love the watch, especially since it was a gift for a significant life event, but I can't understand why they thought to use this function in a non gmt watch. Every time I have to set the date, it's a royal pain in the a** and feels like I am putting a lot of strain on the movement. Still love the watch (I know people hate the bumblebee seconds hand, but it suits me just fine)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup. The Panerai P.9000 in my 359 does too. I think they add a 24hr hand to it for other models so probably makes sense to design it that way. Maybe the same for the Omega?

Sharp watch BTW, love tapestry dials.

Funny you should talk about strain, my P.9000 actually broke during one of the settings. Used to click on each hour, now it doesn't and the date won't turn over at midnight. The minute hand and sub seconds still operate but the hour hand and date wheel just die. Keep meaning to send it in but it operates normally once you reset it past midnight...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

I recently learned (probably on here) that the Rolex hour-jump-to-set-date works in both directions. On my ExpII, if I messed up, I used to go all the way around AGAIN, through all 31 days. This has been the best reason for a watch winder, so I don't have to reset the date on the ExpII.


----------



## gnome666

BigHaole said:


> I recently learned (probably on here) that the Rolex hour-jump-to-set-date works in both directions. On my ExpII, if I messed up, I used to go all the way around AGAIN, through all 31 days. This has been the best reason for a watch winder, so I don't have to reset the date on the ExpII.


That's what I try to do with my AT15,000, except I don't have a winder so I manually wind it...untill I forget to for a day or two, and then I don't wear it cuz I'm to lazy to set the date....

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## TheDude

The old sub date movements (1575) are painful too. There are times I won't wear the red until the day gets a bit ahead (rather than slow wind each day to change the date). You have to wind with all the hands engaged (seconds hacked) to change date. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> The old sub date movements (1575) are painful too. There are times I won't wear the red until the day gets a bit ahead (rather than slow wind each day to change the date). You have to wind with all the hands engaged (seconds hacked) to change date.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I've really started to appreciate a no date dive watch (Tudor Black Bay) as a weekend watch. Much easier to deal with.


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## Chromejob

A little detail to tide us over during the wait. We know that the sweep second hand pip aligns with the hour hand pip.... We know that the other end (I call it the balance, but it probably has no such functional purpose) eclipses the hour pip at the "Y".... I don't think I've ever noticed that the balance doesn't obstruct the dial making above 6 o'clock...!










Happy Saturday.


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## Arthur

TheDude said:


> The old sub date movements (1575) are painful too. There are times I won't wear the red until the day gets a bit ahead (rather than slow wind each day to change the date). You have to wind with all the hands engaged (seconds hacked) to change date.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


That to me was the most significant improvement between the 1675 and the 16750 was the quickset movement.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gwold

Bill has posted a new blog entry:



> A quick update:
> * We have worked up a couple of ideas for the case back engraving. We will post these as soon as we can for everyone's review
> * I have finished refining the bezel insert design. The changes are subtle improvements over the original posted to the site.
> * We will be submitting the parts to a new step, coordinate measurement, to confirm that the parts all work together and to adjust the bezel insert diameter as required to get the best fit. We hope to get this completed later this month.
> * Date wheels are currently in production. We are doing them in two batches and doing the QC. The second batch I hope will be in process by July.


Progress!


----------



## Cleans Up

hooray for progress


----------



## Arthur

I'm all for progress!!!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## curt941

Odds this will be ready before 2017?


----------



## mlb212

curt941 said:


> Odds this will be ready before 2017?


Before 2017 means this year or next (2016), and that the first of the plank kits gets delivered... 50%.


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## Dragoon

curt941 said:


> Odds this will be ready before 2017?


Oh...guessing game time??

I think 1st or 2nd quarter 2016. I dont really expect it in 2015 and I just want a nice watch when it is ready. More interested with awesome final product than the finishing date. And, as I do not want to shell out the big bucks, nor have the stomach to shell out the big bucks for 6538's and mythical Pan Am Moby Dial GMTs I am more than happy to wait for Bill to make his works of art that can be worn on the wrist.

I am grateful that Bill does not charge by the hour!!!! Keep up the good work , Bill! :-d
:-!


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## tomr

When Bill requested final payment back in January, he estimated that selection of models for plank owners would be Q1 of 2015, and deliveries would start in Q2 of 2015, which obviously will not happen. So without an official update, it's anybody's guess at this time. Having waited over three years for a Kingston plank order, I was somewhat prepared for a lengthy wait again. However, with many shared parts with the Kingston, and fewer variations, I am surprised that the Key West will likely surpass the Kingston's development time.


----------



## Dragoon

Bill has really been quite accurate in his estimations on delivery. The last MKII I recieved was delivered 4 days prior to estimated delivery date at time of order. And the delivery date was 5-6 weeks from order date.

If Bill estimated 1st or 2nd quarter 2015 then I am thinking we might want to re-adjust our expectations. Like any "new" build, there absolutely can be delays even with the best of circumstances.

Bill could surprise us with a delivery sometime in 2015 but I have not been following this production process closely enough to know how the various parts and what stages the various parts are expecting to be completed and assembled into completed watches and then Qc'd by the Master himself for final delivery.



tomr said:


> When Bill requested final payment back in January, he estimated that selection of models for plank owners would be Q1 of 2015, and deliveries would start in Q2 of 2015, which obviously will not happen. So without an official update, it's anybody's guess at this time. Having waited over three years for a Kingston plank order, I was somewhat prepared for a lengthy wait again. However, with many shared parts with the Kingston, and fewer variations, I am surprised that the Key West will likely surpass the Kingston's development time.


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## BigHaole

Dragoon said:


> Bill has really been quite accurate in his estimations on delivery.


Except when he's not.


----------



## Dragoon

In my experience, for the last couple watches he has been accurate on delivery times. YMMV.

Projects obviously have more room for error due to the nature of the beast.

But, I understand your post. Sort of like a "rose by any other name would still smell as sweet" except when it doesnt....right?



BigHaole said:


> Except when he's not.


----------



## BigHaole

Dragoon said:


> In my experience, for the last couple watches he has been accurate on delivery times. YMMV.
> 
> Projects obviously have more room for error due to the nature of the beast.
> 
> But, I understand your post. Sort of like a "rose by any other name would still smell as sweet" except when it doesnt....right?


More like "calling a spade a spade." I have no doubt that MKII is a well oiled machine, when parts are in and they're doing assembly, but the projects are a different story and all estimates I've seen wrt the project watches have been way off. I'm OK with that. You guys were great at setting my expectations up front about this, so I haven't been upset about the delays. But the project manager side of me still yearns to do an RCA and identify things to do differently in the future. ;-)


----------



## Dragoon

I appreciate your background and analytical approach with your project management background. That is certainly one approach and in the right setting would be an interesting study to review. Undoubtedly, any project can utilize the principals of project management to improve and identify areas that could improve final outcome or in future projects as you mentioned. I think in this type of endeavor it is more likely a matter of diminishing returns and overkill to implement any more structure than Bill already has in place. I dont think that identifiable and regular channels of manufacture are the "bottleneck", if you will. And, of course, that is always the difficulty with identifying "bottleneck" type issues that are irregular or intermittent. By their very nature, they are unpredictable.

Based on what I have seen in boutique watch projects the whole analytical/project management approach is certainly utilized in the early stages by most of the companies/artisans. The boutique watch teams/individuals are very special business entrepeneurs who must be very careful, wear a bunch of different hats, and make difficult choices which in the end have a very real effect on their product and potentially their ability to make or lose money. (And I am not disputing your position that project management could offer help in these areas... only that this may not be essentially practical in many instances or ultimately is already in place as much as is possible. Bill is a very smart fellow. MBA from Wharton School of Economics.)

And this does not even take into consideration all the potential delays which can occur at every stage of production which in many cases is out of the hands of the artisan/boutique producers.

I guess my reluctance to use harsh and exacting timelines for these type of courageous productions of timepieces that are not available or have not been available for decades is that without these brave artisan/business ventures we would not see pieces produced like "Kingstons", "LRRP's", "Key West GMT" (and yes there have been a few variations released by other producers in the last few weeks which are nice and some might say were inspired by the efforts of MKII and the KEY WEST project).

So, we do have differng points of perspective on production timelines and "estimates" on these project pieces.

These small artisanal producers do not have the capability to change these type of timeline and production processes. They take as long as they take. 
Add in all the possible processes which can and do cause delays and you have initial estimates which may appear to have been erroneous. But, in reality, it may have nothing to do with the estimate but more on the production delay by third party producers. I have a difficult time faulting the artisan when he puts as much hard work, effort, time, and expertise as someone like Bill who takes these watches he produces to another level.

To purchase a watch similar to an MKII with the level of detail that may not be immediately apparent really does bring to mind what watch production must of been like prior to the whole megalopolizing of the watch industry. And, there are lots of small producers in the watch industry and small artisanal producers and small third party parts producers as there has always been for this industry. It just does not always match up well with time studies and production planning due to the nature of the product. And Bill could hire someone like yourself to exclusively do detailed analyses of process and production schedules and pay $100K a years for studies and such. In the end, I do not think it would make much economic sense considering the amount of product someone like Bill is actually able to produce. ( I think Bill most likely has done his own studies in this area and is satisfied with where he is at in this regard. ) (Also, I am not implying you are suggesting that Bill implement any additional planning management or analytics....just sort of rambling on here. )

It is much more fun to think of MKII and Bill in terms of Michaelangelo and the Sistine Chapel. Some things just cannot be hurried. And, the end result is spectacular and always worth the wait.

Bill is just offering incredible watches at incredible prices for the amount of hands-on and hand made attention he puts in his watches. I cannot think of many watch artisans that produce a product like Bill does and offers it at such affordable prices.

I really feel that MKII watches will continue evaluate in the future as they have in the recent past. And, anyone who can sell out watches as fast as Bill does not need fancy advertising. To me, that speaks voumes.

Oh yeah.... and for instance. The Tempus Machina "Red-Depth" 216A which is a modded Rolex Sub to emulate to a great degree the 6538 vs. The Kingston.

$25,000 for the Tempus Machina vs. $1000 USD for the Kingston (plus the PlankHolders who received a bit more discount and basically another whole watch minus the movement and caseback).

When you compare the two pieces side by side (which cannot be done at this time), I imagine it would be amazing how much value the Kingston offers in comparison to the "Red-Depth" for $24,000.00 less.



BigHaole said:


> More like "calling a spade a spade." I have no doubt that MKII is a well oiled machine, when parts are in and they're doing assembly, but the projects are a different story and all estimates I've seen wrt the project watches have been way off. I'm OK with that. You guys were great at setting my expectations up front about this, so I haven't been upset about the delays. But the project manager side of me still yearns to do an RCA and identify things to do differently in the future. ;-)


----------



## Pentameter

According to the official Project GMT page, we are in the 'Production QA' phase, aka THE FINAL stage before delivery begins; first for plankowners, and then for the 2nd stage pre-orders. I would think at this point, barring any unforeseen issues w/ the QA process, that plank owners should be getting theirs before the end of the year. Hopefully Bill will continue updating things as they happen.


----------



## Pentameter

BigHaole said:


> But the project manager side of me still yearns to do an RCA and identify things to do differently in the future. ;-)


I think that is one of those 'be careful what you wish for' type of things. If Bill tried instituting a more efficient project management process, the watches would inevitably suffer. That's what makes MkII what it is, and what makes it so special&#8230; the downside however is long wait times and some inefficiencies.


----------



## BigHaole

I feel the need to preface my comments with the fact that I am not trying to complain about Bill or MKII. I knew what I signed up for and had to right to drop out at any time, which I have never even considered.

Now, with that out of the way...I think you guys are reading WAY too much into project management. Root Cause Analysis is simply the process of asking the question "why?" until you get to the point where you can identify where you could have done something differently and avoided your problem. This isn't hiring a full time PM or contracting tens of thousands of dollars in studies. This is a simple act of honest reflection. Most RCAs take only a few hours. And in a one-man-shop, can probably be done in much less than that. But, in my experience, Root Cause Analysis is always worth the time to conduct it. Identifying small changes can often yield large results. And all of us, no matter how educated, will often fall victim to thinking we're too busy to do these activities. And, again in my experience, it's the ones who think that they need it the least, who actually benefit the most. 

From the information that Bill has shared with us, along this journey, I am under the impression that the process could be improved. Bill, or any of you, is certainly free to disagree with me. I am only trying to share what my experience has taught me, though in very different fields than this. I would love nothing better than to see Bill turn around project watches faster, and at higher profit for himself, so we can all partake of more great watches. It's the ultimate win-win.


----------



## Dragoon

I did not take your post as a complaint at all although I can understand how you might have thought that after reading my post. I apologize if I sort of twisted your post and took some liberties in my response to your post.

I think my response was directed more towards the bigger picture of ultimate root causes of delay and whether it is a task that is worth attempting to respond to or is in fact part of the process and ultimately will improve over time with the methodology Bill has currently in place (which is what I am leaning towards) and not your particular query into examining root cause analysis which I also imagine Bill is utilizing currently.

Did'nt mean to throw you a curve ball. I think you made it very clear in your original post that you were not complaining. 



BigHaole said:


> From the information that Bill has shared with us, along this journey, I am under the impression that the process could be improved. Bill, or any of you, is certainly free to disagree with me. I am only trying to share what my experience has taught me, though in very different fields than this. I would love nothing better than to see Bill turn around project watches faster, and at higher profit for himself, so we can all partake of more great watches. It's the ultimate win-win.


----------



## White Tuna

90% of projects fail.


----------



## gnome666

Veering a bit more on topic, I don't recall ever seeing a "real life" bezel sample. We've seen the renderings, but never a sample, correct? Just wondering if I missed a post or something.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

gnome666 said:


> Veering a bit more on topic, I don't recall ever seeing a "real life" bezel sample. We've seen the renderings, but never a sample, correct? Just wondering if I missed a post or something.


This is correct. One a recent instagram post, Bill said he was working on the bezel design.


----------



## Yellowdrive

Here's my theory... That instagram photo where he mentions "GMT bezel refine" was in black & white. Maybe the coloring in the first samples were off? That would also explain why we haven't seen any real-life examples of this last piece. Just a thought...


----------



## BigHaole

Pentameter said:


> I think that is one of those 'be careful what you wish for' type of things. If Bill tried instituting a more efficient project management process, the watches would inevitably suffer. That's what makes MkII what it is, and what makes it so special&#8230; the downside however is long wait times and some inefficiencies.


I completely disagree. This is the lie that "creative types" tell themselves, when they don't want to do anything, but be creative. I do not think that trying to be a little more efficient means the death of creativity.


----------



## Pentameter

No. It's not the 'death of creativity'. You're going to the extreme here. Sure some efficiencies could be instituted, but that would mean sacrifices in some areas. That wouldn't be the 'death of creativity', but it would detract from the final output, somehow. That's what "efficiencies" are - they're sacrifices made for the sake of being efficient. Bill could do this if he wanted to. Personally I'm glad he doesn't.

Conversely to your point, the lie that business people tell themselves is that they can institute changes in creative processes without changing the final product. Is a car made in Mexico the same as a car made in Germany? Ask someone that owns a VW.


----------



## powerband

Where my watch at?




Just kidding. Lots of good reading here while waiting.


----------



## BigHaole

The whole point of efficiency is that it is a net win. Haven't you ever had the experience of getting a little better organized and not only did you get stuff done quicker, but you did better at it, as well, because you were less stressed or less rushed or for whatever reason. I think most processes can be improved, with small changes, that will allow the next iteration to go a little bit better. This isn't the Toyota production line we're talking about, this is a one-man shop doing many, many, many different activities. And I'll go so far as to say that I bet Bill agrees with me. Look at how many times he has tweaked his own workflow, or ordering process, to try to make it better.


----------



## Chromejob

Anyone can ask the Five Why's. And members here often do. No harm in it. It helps uncover issues and spur brainstorming.


----------



## Dragoon

I am certainly not implying that farmers are not intellingent individuals. But, for lack of a better description, good and productive farmers are indeed intelligent. And big commercial industrial farmers (not necessarily good farmers in some ways) have all types of software, computers, industrial equipment, and farm 1000's of acreas within a single corporate farm using the best hybridized genetically modified seed that produces the highest yield and is supposedly resistant to all the ills that plague farming on the planet earth. The largest corporate thinktanks with the best minds at monsanto (they do it in our best interest using the best and most efficient tactics known in the industrial farming industry.....right?) ensuring that less efficient local farmers who have the nerve to not use their GMO seed stock eventually get with it! Or they sue the pants off of them until they cannot afford to farm their land anymore.

I would prefer MKII to not be commercial farmer if they choose not to be, if you know what I mean. In fact, I applaud MKII for their respect to their individuality and striving for perfection in every watch they produce. I applaud MKII for taking way way too much time with every watch they produce. I applaud MKII for offering their watches at way way below the cost of a similar watch with similar quality in todays marketplace. I am completely surprised that MKII does NOT raise their prices by 50%.

Commercial farmers would never be able to spend the amount of time necessary to achive this level of perfection that MKII achieves in their product.
Plus, commercial farmers do not know how to build watches.

And, if it takes longer....well....it just takes longer. If my brocooli and carrots take 80 days to be grown and are healthy and delicious I am a happy man. I do not suggest that I want these wonderful carrots in 60 days.

No disrespect to your post, either. Just not buying the idea that Bill is inefficient and lacks knowledge of rca and process improvement efficiency techniques.



BigHaole said:


> The whole point of efficiency is that it is a net win. Haven't you ever had the experience of getting a little better organized and not only did you get stuff done quicker, but you did better at it, as well, because you were less stressed or less rushed or for whatever reason. I think most processes can be improved, with small changes, that will allow the next iteration to go a little bit better. This isn't the Toyota production line we're talking about, this is a one-man shop doing many, many, many different activities. And I'll go so far as to say that I bet Bill agrees with me. Look at how many times he has tweaked his own workflow, or ordering process, to try to make it better.


----------



## fastfras

Conversely to your point, the lie that business people tell themselves is that they can institute changes in creative processes without changing the final product. Is a car made in Mexico the same as a car made in Germany? Ask someone that owns a VW.[/QUOTE]

Or, for that matter, Tennessee.


----------



## BigHaole

Dragoon said:


> Plus, commercial farmers do not know how to build watches.


That is the craziest straw man argument I have read in a long time. I'm not trying to say that Bill should become commercial farmer, or the watch equivolent, a mega brand, like Rolex. All I'm saying is, a litle self reflection can help improve things. And I am not saying that Bill doesn't know about these things. Quite the contrary, I bet he's probably doing them, himself. I'm just saying that the current process appears to have room for improvement.


----------



## BigHaole

Pentameter said:


> Conversely to your point, the lie that business people tell themselves is that they can institute changes in creative processes without changing the final product. Is a car made in Mexico the same as a car made in Germany? Ask someone that owns a VW.


Am I to believe that the German's lack process and efficiency, when compared to the Mexicans? I have no idea what point you're trying to make.


----------



## mlb212

Best thread ever...


----------



## JPMIA

mlb212 said:


> Best thread ever...


Agree 100%!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dragoon

Some people believe that German Industrial farmers are not introspective and can improve on their carrot production when everyone in the western hemisphere knows that the German industrial farmers produce some of the most delicious and desirable carrots in existence. Yet, even tho these wonderfully talented German industrial farmers have room for improvement in the process according to outsiders.... they obviously do not care t o institute these minor tweaks.

Is it because through the process of producing these wonderfully fine amazing carrots they have learned that what is important in the carrot growing business is not to mess with a good final product.

Too many cooks in the carrot patch can really ruin a great stew! We all know that!!!!

There is another saying we all know. Until you walk a mile in another mans shoes dont be too quick to pass judgement.


While Bill is NOT a German industrial Farmer; Bill is a superstar! His heroic quest to produce amazingly wonderful watches for his patrons at ridiculously low prices is one of the cinderella stories of the modern watch world.


----------



## BigHaole

I'm not claiming to have walked a mile in Bill's shoes. But I'm pretty sure Bill has. And he has stated, many times in the three years I've been on this forum, that he's tweaking his processes and trying to be more efficient. If Bill thinks his processes can be improved, why are you arguing that his process is already perfect?

And are these German carrot farmers the ones making VWs? I'm still really confused by that whole analogy.


----------



## Dragoon

No one is arguing or in disagreement with you over the methods that German industrial carrot farmers are using. We all know they carrot farmers in that part of the world use sophisticated methodology even if they do just seem like they are being creative artists desiring to produce outstanding carrots for the appreciative customers. And, obviously, as I have stated in every post on this subject we are all in agreement that the sophisticated carrot farmers are currently using and refining their methods as most wildly successful carrot farmers do.

Not sure why you think the process is perfect? I dont think I ever stated anything but that the carrots are wonderful and that the carrot farmers are heroic in their efforts. And that they need to raise the prices for their amazing carrots.

I think you are espousing that the carroteers, if you will, need to start implementing processes which are already currently in use.

Hope that clarifies my position.



BigHaole said:


> I'm not claiming to have walked a mile in Bill's shoes. But I'm pretty sure Bill has. And he has stated, many times in the three years I've been on this forum, that he's tweaking his processes and trying to be more efficient. If Bill thinks his processes can be improved, why are you arguing that his process is already perfect?
> 
> And are these German carrot farmers the ones making VWs? I'm still really confused by that whole analogy.


----------



## BigHaole

Dragoon, I fully concede that you know far more about carrots than I do. And, if I ever have the opportunity to sample German industrial-artisinal carrots, I will try them, based on your recommendation. I assure you, I make no claims on what German carrot farmers should do. 

All I said is that Bill's watch making process probably has room for improvement, based on some of what he has shared and on the increasing time cycles on these project watches. A fact, which I still argue that Bill would agree, based on his own discussion of tweaking his process.


----------



## Dragoon

Sounds reasonable enough to me if we were permitted to discuss MKII business practices. Since we are not, I will just add that I think Bill is producing some incredible watches and I am certain he improves aspects of his business as often as he thinks is helpful.


----------



## Seppia

The last two pages are amazing


----------



## tomr

Dragoon said:


> Sounds reasonable enough to me if we were permitted to discuss MKII business practices. Since we are not, I will just add that I think Bill is producing some incredible watches and I am certain he improves aspects of his business as often as he thinks is helpful.


I concur. The watches speak for themselves. Why else would anyone pay up front and wait years for delivery. However, while I have no interest in Bill's business practices, it would be nice if there were more frequent status and schedule updates.


----------



## gwells

can we get the GMT hand to look like a carrot as an homage to german carrot farmers?


----------



## carlowus

I stumbled upon this thread by chance, I do not have a MKII watch on order nor I am interested on one at this time. I have no bone to pick with Mr Yao and I like the watches he made, at least in pictures. 

However it seems to me that there are a few facts that are obvious:

1. Someone who knows what to do can do it quickly and professionally. If your car is broken and you get it fixed by a competent mechanic, he can fix it quickly and permanently. If you give it to someone who has no clue, he not only won't fix the car but might break it even more. This does not mean that the second guy is bad, just that he needs training and practice.

2. Creativity is a great thing, but in this case since these watches are really only copies, I am not sure what the creativity is supposed to be for? Maybe it could address the production steps so they can be made more efficient?

3. I don't know who produces the parts for Mr Yao, however if there are a lot of rejects due to QC, then it seems to me that the company producing these parts is really not that good? If it was there would be no rejects or less rejects? What does this mean in regards to the overall build quality then? 

4. Professional means efficient, means fast, secure and able to produce a quality product in a reasonable amount of time. 

5. In summary if it takes years to make a few watches, then surely there is something to improve with the production steps, efficiency and logistics of the activity. 

Anyone who says that there isn't something that can be done to speed this process up and make more watches faster is simply not looking and closing his eyes on this subject. I know I have done several projects myself and I know what it takes to put watches together. It is not an esoteric thing, simple point of training and practice. 

Note that I am not bashing Mr Yao, I am simply saying that he can use some help to improve his operation and make more people happy.


----------



## Baby Jesus

Can I buy a MKII watch in shopnbc?


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## mlb212

this thread just keeps on giving...


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## Arthur

Guys, this thread is going downhill fast. We have been warned in the past that discussing business practices is not going to be tolerated. This is the GMT DESIGN THREAD!! It is not the appropriate place to discuss, criticize or analyze the way Bill Yao runs his business. It was tolerable when guys who have a "skin in the game" we're discussing delivery dates, etc. but now you have people who don't own MKII watches and as stated aren't interested in owning one, coming in here with their opinions which are neither needed or appreciated. 
I think we need to get back on track here before John comes on here and drops the hammer on this thread.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Thieuster

Well, let me get this back on track (since I agree with Arthur!): tell me more about the crystal. I can not remember the facts and figures about that part of the KW:is is flat, spheric or... If it's flat, then there's a possibility to add a cyclops. True, a cyclops is not accepted in levels of the WIS, but... I just had a good look at the date wheel. Man, the finish of that date wheel calls for a magnifier!

Menno


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## dnslater

Dragoon said:


> It is much more fun to think of MKII and Bill in terms of Michaelangelo and the Sistine Chapel. Some things just cannot be hurried. And, the end result is spectacular and always worth the wait.


i have long followed and admired Bills skills, however the Sistine Chapel ceiling was not a homage to an out of production, previous chapel ceiling from another artist, it was an entirely original piece. I suppose the obvious parallel though is production time, as it took a little under 4 years to produce.


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## TheDude

gwells said:


> can we get the GMT hand to look like a carrot as an homage to german carrot farmers?


Oddly more on topic than the last 80 posts.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## mlb212

this thread has never seen this much activity without an actual watch development


----------



## Arthur

mlb212 said:


> this thread has never seen this much activity without an actual watch development


That's true, and a week or so ago, it was a dead as a doornail!! But having said that, when folks step off into that forbidden area, it jeopardizes the thread for all of us. Hopefully, as things move forward, we will have things to talk about that actually relate to the Key West.
AFA the Crystal, I agree, it begs to have a good 2.5X cyclops. I know a few guys who build homage watches, and my plans are to have someone install a cyclops. A flat sapphire would be easier, but it's possible on a curved one, although a tall dome like and old Rolex 1665 "super dome" would be pretty difficult. And would look pretty strange!! I may be wrong, but I would bet that the Crystal will be pretty close to the Crystal on the Kingston.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mlb212

Arthur said:


> That's true, and a week or so ago, it was a dead as a doornail!! But having said that, when folks step off into that forbidden area, it jeopardizes the thread for all of us. Hopefully, as things move forward, we will have things to talk about that actually relate to the Key West.
> AFA the Crystal, I agree, it begs to have a good 2.5X cyclops. I know a few guys who build homage watches, and my plans are to have someone install a cyclops. A flat sapphire would be easier, but it's possible on a curved one, although a tall dome like and old Rolex 1665 "super dome" would be pretty difficult. And would look pretty strange!! I may be wrong, but I would bet that the Crystal will be pretty close to the Crystal on the Kingston.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I expect the exact same crystal as the Kingston. I don't think it begs for a cyclops, that said, I am not a fan of cyclopes. I usually remove them. If I could only get it off my sub, then I would like it.

I think the Mexican VW and German carrot farmer discussion is... well... interesting.


----------



## Arthur

mlb212 said:


> I expect the exact same crystal as the Kingston. I don't think it begs for a cyclops, that said, I am not a fan of cyclopes. I usually remove them. If I could only get it off my sub, then I would like it.
> 
> I think the Mexican VW and German carrot farmer discussion is... well... interesting.


I think cyclops or lack of cyclops is a personal choice. I personally 
Ike them on my Rolex watches, but there are others that look a lot better with no cyclops, or a concealed cyclops. Watches like Panerai and Audemars Piguet use cyclops under the Crystal that are not so "in your face" as the Rolex crystals.
I know nothing about Mexican VW's except for the VW "Thing" I rented in Cozumel many years ago. Lots of fun, but not what you would want to use for your daily commute!! I have no idea what the German Carrot farmer has to do with a thread on watches. I know nothing about carrots except to eat, but I do know a bit about farming in general, as my first degree and masters were in Ag business, and I'm the President of our incorporated family farming operation, and I listen to my son who has a very large farming operation, growing cotton, corn, soybeans and rice.we do not grow carrots!!!


----------



## powerband

I am hoping that it will have the same crystal as the Kingston. I like the bubble on my Datejust, but not on the Key West. Although, I do agree that the datewheel is outstanding!


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## Dragoon

Just ask yourself one question.... why do hot dogs come in packages of 10 and hot dog buns in packages of 8? When you can answer that question Then you will probably understand better.

Oh, mmmm, yes, I definitely want a 2.5 magnifier cyclops on mine!!! Anyone have any sources?



dnslater said:


> i have long followed and admired Bills skills, however the Sistine Chapel ceiling was not a homage to an out of production, previous chapel ceiling from another artist, it was an entirely original piece. I suppose the obvious parallel though is production time, as it took a little under 4 years to produce.


----------



## Dragoon

.


----------



## powerband

Dragoon said:


> Just ask yourself one question.... why do hot dogs come in packages of 10 and hot dog buns in packages of 8? When you can answer that question Then you will probably understand better.
> 
> ?


Two out of 10 are on a low-carb diet?

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## gonzomantis

Dragoon said:


> Just ask yourself one question.... why do hot dogs come in packages of 10 and hot dog buns in packages of 8? When you can answer that question Then you will probably understand better.


Yeah, I saw Bulletproof Monk too, but I still don't understand. If there is no room for improvement, then the current state must be at its pinnacle. For that I congratulate Mr. Yao.


----------



## mlb212

Dragoon said:


> Just ask yourself one question....  why do hot dogs come in packages of 10 and hot dog buns in packages of 8? When you can answer that question Then you will probably understand better.


My brother and I figured this out when we were teenagers. We 'doubled-up' a single hotdog bun with TWO hotdogs (one for each of us). I still do this but don't tell the wife or kids, they haven't caught on yet.


----------



## mlb212

gonzomantis said:


> Yeah, I saw Bulletproof Monk too, but I still don't understand. If there is no room for improvement, then the current state must be at its pinnacle. For that I congratulate Mr. Yao.


Clearly, you've read too much on Hegel's teleology...


----------



## BigHaole

Dragoon said:


> Oh, mmmm, yes, I definitely want a 2.5 magnifier cyclops on mine!!! Anyone have any sources?


I completely agree. My old eyes + that beautiful date wheel = cyclops!


----------



## Thieuster

Great to see this thread back on track!

Back to the first part of my question: was the shape of the crystal ever being discussed? I can not find it. Furthermore: what was originally on the Pan Am watch?

Menno


----------



## Dragoon

Not at all. It is the same as the noise that is made by one hand clapping. It all makes perfect sense. It may not make sense if you think exclusively with western analytical thinking. And, no, it does not mean everything is currently perfect. Perfection may have very little to do with the answer. AS long as it is good for Bill it is fine with me.

Bill has the ability to produce outstanding watches that rival watches costing $1000's more. And that is no exaggeration. That is one of the reasons why many of the watches which Bill produces are already sold prior to their completion. That is why customers are willing to wait for his completed watches. You cannot go out to the jewelry store and purchase a watch like the MKII Kingston or GMT Key West for $1500. They do not exist.

The Squale 30 Atmos and Steinhart Dual Time are nice watches in their own right. But, the attention to detail on the Key West is much more. Doesnt detract from the Squale or Steinhart. It just depends on what you want. They all seem like nice pieces to me. If all three pieces were sitting on a table and I could choose just one. I would definitely go for the MKII. Doesnt mean the MKII is perfect. Just that Bill is following the path and understands how to produce an amazing watch.



gonzomantis said:


> Yeah, I saw Bulletproof Monk too, but I still don't understand. If there is no room for improvement, then the current state must be at its pinnacle. For that I congratulate Mr. Yao.


----------



## gwold

Thieuster said:


> Great to see this thread back on track!
> 
> Back to the first part of my question: was the shape of the crystal ever being discussed? I can not find it. Furthermore: what was originally on the Pan Am watch?
> 
> Menno


Check out the links White Tuna posted last year. Bill weighed in saying it'd be difficult to attach a cyclops to a domed crystal, and that he'd never done one before. On the same day he also wrote that if most of the folks wanted a cyclops, then he'd "see what he could do."

[EDIT: Removed incorrect info in deference to Arthur's authoritative post, below.]


----------



## Arthur

Thieuster said:


> Great to see this thread back on track!
> 
> Back to the first part of my question: was the shape of the crystal ever being discussed? I can not find it. Furthermore: what was originally on the Pan Am watch?
> 
> Menno


Menno, 
The originals had acrylic crystals with a rounded edges and a slight dome. The originals used a 25-115 Crystal. These have been out of production for many, many years and the ones you can find are probably over 300 USD! Also they are old, and I would be very wary of using one. The replacement is the 25-116 which is the Crystal used in the 1675, 16750 and others up to the era of sapphire. The only difference is the cyclops is slightly different in it's placement, but you would have to be and ultra WIS to notice. 
Here is a photo of my 16750 which may give you and idea of the Crystal shape.
AFA cyclops vs no cyclops, the vast majority of 6542's were delivered with a cyclops, all the Pan Am watches were. Back then, Rolex was more flexible, and they offered the option of the Tropic 19 ( no cyclops) as and alternative to the 25-115 cyclops Crystal. From what I have read and all the watches I have seen, the Tropic 19 was not a popular option. So to answer, the cyclops was standard issue on the Rolex GMT's









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Thieuster

Arthur,

Thanks for this answer. Exactly what I needed. First, we (you) got this thread back on track and second, I go out for a search, looking for a cyclops!

Menno


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## 66Cooper

Wonderful pic there! What a watch. And as thieuster said, thank you very much for getting things back on track;-)


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## TheDude

Bear in mind (and I've said this before), Rolex permitted buyers to specify alternate crystals on some sports watches back in the acrylic days. Sub dates with domes, GMTs with domes. I have posted images in this thread but since finding anything in these monster threads is impossible, I post again...




























Fwiw, I said we should have a blue bezel since it is rooted in military watches. Would have been in keeping with the mission of MkII...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## TheMeasure

TheDude said:


> ..I have posted images in this thread but since finding anything in these monster threads is impossible, I post again...


I don't think any of us will mind if these images are posted here more than once ;-)

Really cool font on this one's date wheel



TheDude said:


> ..


----------



## TheDude

Found this old link I posted here once.

Ultra tropical 6542 without cyclops

http://10pastten.com/watch/ta718

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

Those Blue insert Military models are really scarce. Obviously they weren't produced in huge numbers, and as "issue" watches, they were probably used pretty hard. This one is a beautiful example.
As you said, Rolex was a lot different company back in the 50's thru probably the 70's. They did a lot of "private label" dials back then, for corporations, military and even sporting events. The Cotton Bowl in Dallas gave Rolex Datejusts to the participating teams, coaches officials, etc. for quite a few years. Jewelers like Tiffany and even award watches to corporations. I don't know who or when this practice was stopped, but it closed a unique chapter in Rolex's history.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

I think it closed as the prices went ever up and up.


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## BigHaole

Great picture of the date wheel on the Facebook page. Good view of some open 6s and 9s. I'm not sure I want to ask what is being used for "gloves".


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## TheMeasure

This just in..

2015-06-18 Project GMT Ordering/Updates


----------



## Yellowdrive

BigHaole said:


> Great picture of the date wheel on the Facebook page. Good view of some open 6s and 9s. I'm not sure I want to ask what is being used for "gloves".
> 
> View attachment 4365506


...and how can I pre-order those gloves?!?


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## enkidu

Those "gloves" are called finger cots and are widely used in medical and technical operations involving small and very small things.


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## BigHaole

enkidu said:


> Those "gloves" are called finger cots and are widely used in medical and technical operations involving small and very small things.


I believe I saw then sold in 12 packs, at the local convenience store. A variety of textures were available.


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## 66Cooper

Ha!


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## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> I think it closed as the prices went ever up and up.


Considering that I bought and AirKing in about 1968 for around 200.00 USD, traded it and maybe a hundred dollars for a S/S DJ a year or two later. Bought my first 1680 Submariner for less than 500USD around 1973-74 and wore it for 7 or 8 years, you are right, the prices stayed pretty low, but then Rolex started upping the prices 10-15% every year from then on. 
I believe that with the price increases, a lot of entities that we're giving Rolex watches as sales awards and participation in athletic events were forced to use other brands.

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----------



## powerband

TheMeasure said:


> This just in..
> 
> 2015-06-18 Project GMT Ordering/Updates


Perhaps I missed a couple of threads in the past 16,000,000 threads, but has there been any design discussion or conclusion on the caseback -- will it be mostly blank or with a design of some kind?

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## TheMeasure

powerband said:


> Perhaps I missed a couple of threads in the past 16,000,000 threads, but has there been any design discussion or conclusion on the caseback -- will it be mostly blank or with a design of some kind?


There will be a design of some kind, we are just waiting to see what the design will be. This was the last update I recall about the design of the caseback;



> 2015-06-09: Project GMT
> June 9, 2015 By admin
> A quick update:
> * We have worked up a couple of ideas for the case back engraving. We will post these as soon as we can for everyone's review


----------



## powerband

Thanks, TheMeasure. Now it's coming back to me... the Globe design of sort.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## sevens

I am IN.
I got an email from Bill notifying that I was selected. 
Ordering soon.


----------



## Arthur

powerband said:


> Thanks, TheMeasure. Now it's coming back to me... the Globe design of sort.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


I don't think so. The globe is trademarked or copyrighted by Pan Am. Although the airline is long defunct, the trademarks and intellectual property rights were sold, so they are still active and enforceable. We discussed this way, way back in the beginning, and Bill was pretty adamant that he had no interest in possibly running afoul of another companies copyrights. 
Obviously the brand is still active as there is a website that sells PanAm branded products.. The store is owned by the PANAM Historic Foundation, located in Miami at the PanAm Flight training center. PanAm.org

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Arthur said:


> I don't think so. The globe is trademarked or copyrighted by Pan Am. Although the airline is long defunct, the trademarks and intellectual property rights were sold, so they are still active and enforceable. We discussed this way, way back in the beginning, and Bill was pretty adamant that he had no interest in possibly running afoul of another companies copyrights.
> Obviously the brand is still active as there is a website that sells PanAm branded products.. The store is owned by the PANAM Historic Foundation, located in Miami at the PanAm Flight training center. PanAm.org
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks, Arthur. The PanAm Historic Foundation is interesting -- I guess it preserves the heydays of aviation, when it had clout on the wings... and ashtrays in the arm rest. In any case, I remember seeing several mock-ups of the globe logo on here, but I personally didn't care for the entire concept on the Key West. I'm glad to learn that it was decided against the globe logo.


----------



## TheDude

Arthur said:


> Those Blue insert Military models are really scarce. Obviously they weren't produced in huge numbers, and as "issue" watches, they were probably used pretty hard. This one is a beautiful example.
> As you said, Rolex was a lot different company back in the 50's thru probably the 70's. They did a lot of "private label" dials back then, for corporations, military and even sporting events. The Cotton Bowl in Dallas gave Rolex Datejusts to the participating teams, coaches officials, etc. for quite a few years. Jewelers like Tiffany and even award watches to corporations. I don't know who or when this practice was stopped, but it closed a unique chapter in Rolex's history.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I have an Omani friend who claims the practice is alive and well in the middle east. They continue to have custom crest dials apparently...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## gwold

Hour hand QA, borrowed from Bill via Instagram:











> Taking a lot of time to do QC... That's one of the reason why "we are Mk II"


----------



## Thieuster

powerband said:


> Thanks, Arthur. The PanAm Historic Foundation is interesting -- I guess it preserves the heydays of aviation, when it had clout on the wings... and ashtrays in the arm rest. In any case, I remember seeing several mock-ups of the globe logo on here, but I personally didn't care for the entire concept on the Key West. I'm glad to learn that it was decided against the globe logo.


Have a look at posting #548 of this thread. I suggested a Loxodrome or Rhumb line as a possible case back.

Menno


----------



## STEELINOX

Okay, so can we now talk about "this" again seein as the case back is moot now...










"Chamfer," yes chamfer...

Does anyone have any idea if indeed the mid casing will be the same as KINGSTON et al?










This chamfer is so beautiful, a mouse could ski down it on one paw, whilst eating a slice of DOMINO's pepperoni pizza !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Cleans Up

"This chamfer is so beautiful, a mouse could ski down it on one paw, whilst eating a slice of DOMINO's pepperoni pizza !"

It's a nice chamfer, but what the hell does that mean??


----------



## White Tuna

Cleans Up said:


> "This chamfer is so beautiful, a mouse could ski down it on one paw, whilst eating a slice of DOMINO's pepperoni pizza !"
> 
> It's a nice chamfer, but what the hell does that mean??


All the cool mice know.


----------



## STEELINOX

Cleans Up said:


> "This chamfer is so beautiful, a mouse could ski down it on one paw, whilst eating a slice of DOMINO's pepperoni pizza !"
> 
> It's a nice chamfer, but what the hell does that mean??


This litl detail carved out on the mid casing is called, "chamfer"...


----------



## Cleans Up

so I get the chamfer part....just not the reference to "_ a mouse could ski down it on one paw, whilst eating a slice of DOMINO's pepperoni pizza"

Can I get a pic of that! LOL_


----------



## STEELINOX

Cleans Up said:


> so I get the chamfer part....just not the reference to "_ a mouse could ski down it on one paw, whilst eating a slice of DOMINO's pepperoni pizza"
> 
> Can I get a pic of that! LOL_


It's okay, it's just a attempt at humor, poor one at that too, wuldnt you say!

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> It's okay, it's just a attempt at humor, poor one at that too, wuldnt you say!


----------



## TheDude

Do we know if the bezel assembly is identical to the existing Kingston family or is it shorter like the 6542?

6542...



















The much taller Sub bezel that the Kingston family resembles.










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## timeturner7

I can't wait to see the bezels. It will complete the look of the watch.


----------



## BigHaole

timeturner7 said:


> I can't wait to see the bezels. It will complete the look of the watch.


I'm still holding out hope for, "Surprise! I'm giving you guys a lumed sapphire bezel!"


----------



## Calibrel

BigHaole said:


> I'm still holding out hope for, "Surprise! I'm giving you guys a lumed sapphire bezel!"


... Well, that thought never crossed my mind until now....

Why the heck did you have to go do that? Now I want one....


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> I'm still holding out hope for, "Surprise! I'm giving you guys a lumed sapphire bezel!"


I really am not sure I would appreciate a lumed bezel on this watch. I am not sure it goes with the aesthetic. But I understand everyone has different tastes.


----------



## STEELINOX

I am set for "The Ghost Clipper"!


__
http://instagr.am/p/1Y3ivHq-UI/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> I really am not sure I would appreciate a lumed bezel on this watch. I am not sure it goes with the aesthetic. But I understand everyone has different tastes.


A lumed sapphire bezel would, in my mind, be the perfect MKII modernization of the classic design. But I definitely get your point. And what's more...it ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Dragoon

Yeah, I am with you on that one... th Ghhost Clipper! Love it! Great name too.



STEELINOX said:


> I am set for "The Ghost Clipper"!
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/1Y3ivHq-UI/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dragoon

While I am in total support for a sapphire bezel insert; it is not without its drawbacks.

What happens when Bill runs out of replacement sapphire inserts? Just look at some of the recent Deep Blue threads and complaints about availability of replacement ceramic inserts. I am not stating that MKII and Deep Blue have any similarities but neither is a Rolex or Omega with their parts inventory.

An aluminum insert is much more easily sourced in any event should the supply dry up at the well.



BigHaole said:


> I'm still holding out hope for, "Surprise! I'm giving you guys a lumed sapphire bezel!"


----------



## BigHaole

Dragoon said:


> While I am in total support for a sapphire bezel insert; it is not without its drawbacks.
> 
> What happens when Bill runs out of replacement sapphire inserts? Just look at some of the recent Deep Blue threads and complaints about availability of replacement ceramic inserts. I am not stating that MKII and Deep Blue have any similarities but neither is a Rolex or Omega with their parts inventory.
> 
> An aluminum insert is much more easily sourced in any event should the supply dry up at the well.


While I agree with you on the availability of parts, I have two points:
1. Plank holders get an extra bezel. I would be surprised if this is not a purchasable option for non-Plank, to allow people to buy both bezels.
2. How often have you been braking your bezels? I have never had a bezel replacement needed, in all my watch wearing years. I guess I'm just lucky.


----------



## Dragoon

Myself.... I have never broken a sapphire or ceramic bezel insert. But, it does happen.

There is a poster in the Dive forum who broke his sapphire insert on a $2000 DeepBlue auto chrono T 100 piece and there were no available bezel insert replacements but I think he was given the opportunity of purchasing another complete case for big bucks.



BigHaole said:


> While I agree with you on the availability of parts, I have two points:
> 1. Plank holders get an extra bezel. I would be surprised if this is not a purchasable option for non-Plank, to allow people to buy both bezels.
> 2. How often have you been braking your bezels? I have never had a bezel replacement needed, in all my watch wearing years. I guess I'm just lucky.


----------



## STEELINOX

[edited for too little relevance]


----------



## BigHaole

Dragoon said:


> ...There is a poster in the Dive forum who broke his sapphire insert on a $2000 DeepBlue auto chrono T 100 piece and there were no available bezel insert replacements...


We live in the age of the internets. There is always a story of a guy who had something unusual happen. I don't doubt the truth of it. But the attention it generates creates the impression that this is a risk you really need to be concerned about. Look at airline disasaters. Statistically, there is no safer way to travel...period. But the attention an airline disaster gets leaves plenty of well educated people, nervous about flying. So much so, that some companies have policies requiring people on the same project to travel on different airplanes (don't laugh, this was the Lucent policy, when I worked there), even though we were at FAR greater risk, in the cab then we were on the plane.

Long story short, I would not let the fear of a possible broken sapphire bezel (which "could" happen) deter me from enjoying an excellent MKII watch with one, if it were offered.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> We live in the age of the internets. There is always a story of a guy who had something unusual happen. I don't doubt the truth of it. But the attention it generates creates the impression that this is a risk you really need to be concerned about. Look at airline disasaters. Statistically, there is no safer way to travel...period. But the attention an airline disaster gets leaves plenty of well educated people, nervous about flying. So much so, that some companies have policies requiring people on the same project to travel on different airplanes (don't laugh, this was the Lucent policy, when I worked there), even though we were at FAR greater risk, in the cab then we were on the plane.
> 
> Long story short, I would not let the fear of a possible broken sapphire bezel (which "could" happen) deter me from enjoying an excellent MKII watch with one, if it were offered.


 Yeah, I have a reputation from the age of six to be extraordinarily hard on things. My Dad always said that I... "should get a job testing tanks for the Army..." - because, 'If it could be broke - (OCM) could break it....'

I have a sapphire-bezeled Paradive and other watches with ceramic or sapphire bezels. I haven't broke or chipped one yet -- And No Scratches either! -- So that says something.

:think: I like to think that I have learned to become more careful with advancing age....But if you saw the scratches and dings on some of my stuff close up, you might think otherwise... :-d

--- Best ---


----------



## Dragoon

I totally agree with your synopsis and conclusion. I already stated in earlier post on the subject of sapphire or ceramic insert that I would welcome that decision. My point was just that even if project included sapphire or ceramic insert that those options also have their drawbacks.

And I have also read of Omega ceramic inserts chipping and cracking. As you say, only those with issues are going to post and who knows what drastic circumstances caused those issues or not. I am not concerned about the damage issue as I have plenty of ceramic and sapphire inserts.

I think Bill has indicated a few times that he was not going to attempt a sapphire or ceramic insert for this piece. Acrylic also was not discussed as a possibility.

So , while a ceramic or sapphire insert would indeed be welcome; a well done aluminum insert would satisfy my desire for a vintage era GMT homage, if you will. And, 10-15 years down the road we will be able to source replacement bezel inserts even if the MKII inserts are not available in a worst case scenario.



BigHaole said:


> We live in the age of the internets. There is always a story of a guy who had something unusual happen. I don't doubt the truth of it. But the attention it generates creates the impression that this is a risk you really need to be concerned about. Look at airline disasaters. Statistically, there is no safer way to travel...period. But the attention an airline disaster gets leaves plenty of well educated people, nervous about flying. So much so, that some companies have policies requiring people on the same project to travel on different airplanes (don't laugh, this was the Lucent policy, when I worked there), even though we were at FAR greater risk, in the cab then we were on the plane.
> 
> Long story short, I would not let the fear of a possible broken sapphire bezel (which "could" happen) deter me from enjoying an excellent MKII watch with one, if it were offered.


----------



## Arthur

Dragoon said:


> I totally agree with your synopsis and conclusion. I already stated in earlier post on the subject of sapphire or ceramic insert that I would welcome that decision. My point was just that even if project included sapphire or ceramic insert that those options also have their drawbacks.
> 
> And I have also read of Omega ceramic inserts chipping and cracking. As you say, only those with issues are going to post and who knows what drastic circumstances caused those issues or not. I am not concerned about the damage issue as I have plenty of ceramic and sapphire inserts.
> 
> I think Bill has indicated a few times that he was not going to attempt a sapphire or ceramic insert for this piece. Acrylic also was not discussed as a possibility.
> 
> So , while a ceramic or sapphire insert would indeed be welcome; a well done aluminum insert would satisfy my desire for a vintage era GMT homage, if you will. And, 10-15 years down the road we will be able to source replacement bezel inserts even if the MKII inserts are not available in a worst case scenario.


Pretty much anything can be broken!! I really think that considering how conservative they have been in the past, Rolex would not have changed out their aluminum bezels for ceramic if they had a high failure rate in normal wear. I have several watches with ceramic and sapphire bezel inserts, and thus far no problems with any of them.
AFA replacement inserts, I'm not so sure that they will be easy to come by if MKII doesn't't have any. It will all depend on how close the MKII bezel is to popular models. If it's close, then an insert from any aftermarket Rolex supplier, or other manufacturer can be sanded down and altered to fit. If it isn't close, then adapting an insert can be a problem.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Cleans Up

I haven't seen it mentioned yet but an aluminum insert has one more advantage in my book. It can be aged, either chemically or with UV light to achieve a more vintage feel. Several of my overall favorite bezels are the blueberry, and grey ghost types. I don't see how anyone could get there with sapphire or ceramic. That's the specific charm of the new materials of course and given the option I'd take both, but I wont be disappointed with aluminum. Hell if I can get 2 it'll allow me to experiment in hope of achieving this look.


----------



## STEELINOX

Blueberry aloominēum insert like this would be nice !








Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## White Tuna

I can't wait to see what shades of blue and red have been chosen for the bezels.


----------



## Jfha1210

STEELINOX said:


> Blueberry aloominēum insert like this would be nice !
> View attachment 4482530
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


I love it, but would it be a true hommage to Rolex PanAm? 
Still a great mod for our future Key West...

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Jfha1210 said:


> I love it, but would it be a true hommage to Rolex PanAm?
> Still a great mod for our future Key West...
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


No, this isn't part of that "PAN AM" lore, but I just lovit to pieces !

[EDIT ...well, I take that back, cause, you never know with ROLEX; maybe some "lucky few" did receive this Blueberry bezel]


----------



## TheDude

You know something... As I sit here staring at my phone it occurs to me that I have a sapphire self-adhesive screen shield on it. How hard would it be to manufacture self-sticking sapphire rings that could be applied over the aluminum insert??? 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> You know something... As I sit here staring at my phone it occurs to me that I have a sapphire self-adhesive screen shield on it. How hard would it be to manufacture self-sticking sapphire rings that could be applied over the aluminum insert???
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Bear in mind that your phone is perfectly flat. Is the same true of the bezel on the GMT-Master?


----------



## STEELINOX

A production run of three hundred sapphire stickers prolly cost about $5 large give or take...


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## STEELINOX

Made in China most likely...









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## STEELINOX

And not including tooling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

BigHaole said:


> Bear in mind that your phone is perfectly flat. Is the same true of the bezel on the GMT-Master?


It just needs to be formed/cooled on the proper conical surface or mold.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> Made in China most likely...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


No. Think clear.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

Even if this is possible I would be very hesitant to affix it to the bezel. I think it would need some kind of adhesive and I would have concern of it damaging the bezel in the long run.


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> No. Think clear.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


That was what I was thinking; I shouldn't have sketched in the numbers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> Even if this is possible I would be very hesitant to affix it to the bezel. I think it would need some kind of adhesive and I would have concern of it damaging the bezel in the long run.


Yes, agree here too...

The actual "applying" would need to be too precise to allow for the slightest misalignment :thumbsdow:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> Yes, agree here too...
> 
> The actual "applying" would need to be too precise to allow for the slightest misalignment :thumbsdow:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It might. Hard to say. We'd want to explore it. Maybe if you had a layer of clear 3M film between the aluminum and the sapphire adhesive.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> It might. Hard to say. We'd want to explore it. Maybe if you had a layer of clear 3M film between the aluminum and the sapphire adhesive.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Problem is really more to do with this being "labor intensive"...


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> Problem is really more to do with this being "labor intensive"...


I think you just described watchmaking... 😁

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

I am not totally against it. I like to see ideas like this. It may look spectacular and it could actually be used on other watches if it does. I am much more interested in a cyclops though. 

But let me be honest here. After such a long wait for this watch I doubt I am going to want to ship it out to have some mods done.


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> I think you just described watchmaking... 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


It is indeed...

But look at what were thinkin here:

A sapphire applied lens that has to be aligned perfectly to a frame...

Its has a gob of UV activated glue, hmm, maybe this will work after all...

You align the thing on the bezel prolly with some alignment tool that positions both the 
bezel and the glass - then ya activate the glue and presto " jewelry class bezel "...


----------



## TheDude

It's no harder than perfectly aligning a phone cover but I agree it would be the source of many tears for the owner who botches his... 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> It's no harder than perfectly aligning a phone cover but I agree it would be the source of many tears for the owner who botches his...


Mess up your phone cover and you just take it off, setting you back somewhere between $1 and $10.

If we're doing this, can we also get a sapphire 2.5x cyclops that's perfectly shaped to the crystal?


----------



## TheDude

BigHaole said:


> Mess up your phone cover and you just take it off, setting you back somewhere between $1 and $10.
> 
> If we're doing this, can we also get a sapphire 2.5x cyclops that's perfectly shaped to the crystal?


No. The phone cover I'm talking about set me back almost $50 and is sapphire glass.

Good idea for the cyclops. Same exact product.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

The sapphire bezel insert culd actually be made from a 3D printer for that matter too...


----------



## celtics1984

I'm with White tuna on this one. I would much rather investigate the possibility of adding the 2.5x magnifying cyclops on mine.


----------



## STEELINOX

The fact that because the real estate a sapphired clops needs to lay on is already on a sloped plane will cause it to not work properly, and though it may lay on the main lens okay, it will likely not refract squarely, if that makes any sense...

Yude have to install a flat sapphire main lens first, and that is rather a cost prohibitive expense, unless of course an off the shelf one will work...


----------



## mlb212

Did everybody already see this?









http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/tudor-...nce-7923001-a-unique-reference-for-only-watch


----------



## STEELINOX

mlb212 said:


> Did everybody already see this?
> 
> View attachment 4491298
> 
> 
> http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/tudor-...nce-7923001-a-unique-reference-for-only-watch


Yes, I did...

"Yesterday's " winding thingy (crown) looks so much nicer !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Knoc

mlb212 said:


> Did everybody already see this?
> 
> View attachment 4491298
> 
> 
> Introducing: The Tudor Heritage Black Bay One Reference 7923/001, A Unique Reference For Only Watch - HODINKEE


Gota admit its a pretty sweet one off.


----------



## mrklabb

That Tudor looks nice! Looks like it has the same "thick" case as other black bay models?


----------



## TheDude

They're jerks for making just one. I also hate all modern Tudor bracelets - that thing looks like an afterthought. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> They're jerks for making just one. I also hate all modern Tudor bracelets - that thing looks like an afterthought.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Agree.

The center link is wider because they had nothing better to do than to leave well enough alone...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Calibrel

I only recently learned the the original GMT-Master had a lumed bezel. IMO, that's the more desirable feature over a sapphire bezel (I know both could be done, just stating personal priorities). And if I had to choose between a sapphire bezel or small cyclops option, I'd go with cyclops.

Sapphire bezel is definitely a more unique feature, but low on my list.


----------



## STEELINOX

What motor is goin in this again, is it a 2893?

Anyone, Ferris Bueller?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Nevermind, I found it= 2893-2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tmoris

one piece is ridiculous. why even bother .. made me mad..


----------



## STEELINOX

tmoris said:


> one piece is ridiculous. why even bother .. made me mad..


?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentameter

he's talking about the Tudor on the previous page. 

Yeah it's nice, but only one? Oh well… could have been a big seller for them. Back to MkII.


----------



## tmoris

Yes. Id buy one instantly. Clowns.


----------



## White Tuna

mlb212 said:


> Did everybody already see this?
> 
> View attachment 4491298
> 
> 
> Introducing: The Tudor Heritage Black Bay One Reference 7923/001, A Unique Reference For Only Watch - HODINKEE


Put some solid end links on that bracelet and use a more retro crown as STEELINOX stated and this would be a must have for a lot of people.

I think it also highlights that the handset on the Black Bay was not the best choice:


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> Put some solid end links on that bracelet and use a more retro crown as STEELINOX stated and this would be a must have for a lot of people.
> 
> I think it also highlights that the handset on the Black Bay was not the best choice


I don't think Tudor is having too much trouble selling the Black Bays and Pelagoses (Pelagi?) that they already have in the lineup. I think that there is a great market for modern interpretations of classic designs and Tudor is nailing it, with the Black Bay. Now, if only there was a small, independent shop that was also making great modern interpretations of some classic watches. Anyone know one? :think:


----------



## TheDude

Calibrel said:


> I only recently learned the the original GMT-Master had a lumed bezel. IMO, that's the more desirable feature over a ceramic bezel (I know both could be done, just stating personal priorities). And if I had to choose between a sapphire bezel or small cyclops option, I'd go with cyclops.
> 
> Sapphire bezel is definitely a more unique feature, but low on my list.


The Tudor Pelagos has a lumed matte ceramic bezel. It's pretty pimp.










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> The Tudor Pelagos has a lumed matte ceramic bezel. It's pretty pimp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Remove the word, "ceramic," and "winner winner chicken pot pie dinner"!

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> Remove the word, "ceramic," and "winner winner chicken pot pie dinner"!
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Yeah but it's matte...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> Yeah but it's matte...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


"Matte," I can live with, it's that "glass-like" China, that I can't really buy into...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## TheDude

This OWC has a lumed ceramic bezel. They are applied to the bezel (some kind of raised paint) but still quite decent.










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

STEELINOX said:


> "Matte," I can live with, it's that "glass-like" China, that I can't really buy into...
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Weird. I feel like the glossy sheen of the ceramic is close to the old bakelite finish... If you could do a multilayer ceramic, with color on the bottom, lumed indices in the middle, and a clear top layer, it would probably look right.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> This OWC has a lumed ceramic bezel. They are applied to the bezel (some kind of raised paint) but still quite decent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I really thought that the whole "ceramic" idea was a fad like the torn jeans ya see the Gals wear, hmm, well, I'm happy Bill isn't goin that route with my white dialed GMT !

[edit: uhh, forgot the imagery]








Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## STEELINOX

Just look at this, mouthwatering GMT, lookatit lookatit !






















Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> The Tudor Pelagos has a lumed matte ceramic bezel. It's pretty pimp.


The bezel is killer, but I really did not like the white hands. Too cold looking for me. Same with the Black Bay Blue. The Pelagos also screams "tool watch!" in a way that a Rolex Submariner does not. I wanted to like it, but it just didn't sing to me.

The Black Bay red, on the other hand...well, it's actually on the other hand (or it will be tomorrow, when I swap watches).


----------



## BigHaole

STEELINOX said:


> Just look at this, mouthwatering GMT, lookatit lookatit !


Get that poor thing to an RSC quick. A new bezel, new hands, probably a new dial, and it will be good as new!


----------



## Calibrel

TheDude said:


> The Tudor Pelagos has a lumed matte ceramic bezel. It's pretty pimp.


For some reason in my original post you quoted, I mentioned lumed over ceramic when I meant sapphire. No clue why I made that mixup.

I'm so at odds with the Pelagos. And Tudors snowflake hour hand is such a big time killer for me, it always seems so out of place.


----------



## TheMeasure

New update from Bill:

2015-07-01: Project GMT Update



> I am leaving in 12 hours for our annual pilgrimage to Taiwan to visit the in-laws so please excuse the brevity of this update:
> 
> 
> Right now we are working through the date wheel printing process. We QC'd the first batch and are going through the second printing to build additional inventory
> The first round of case body QC has been completed and we have returned the parts to the vendor that needed re-work.
> A sample of QC'd case parts have been sent off the quality control company. This is the one I referred to an in earlier post and they will be doing computer measurements of the parts so we can verify the quality of the machining. If all is well then we will submit the bezel insert to manufacturing and continue with the process of cleaning and assembling the case bodies. We don't want to continue with this process until we can be reasonably sure the parts will fit together as designed.
> We are still working on the case back designs. Sorry but just ran out of time before the trip to get the designs together for publication and feedback.
> We are expecting the first batches of dials in September.
> I return on the 20th of July&#8230;.which is to say I will be lucid again towards the latter half of that week rather than online on the 20th. I will be doing accounting and catching up with correspondence with vendors while in the jet lag haze at the beginning of that week.


----------



## STEELINOX




----------



## Thieuster

Almost the 4th of July for you US formumites . What do you think: will Bill introduce the long-awaited bezel? After all, red, white and blue surely have a 4th of July look-and-feel don't you think?

Menno


----------



## mlb212

Calibrel said:


> I'm so at odds with the Pelagos. And Tudors snowflake hour hand is such a big time killer for me, it always seems so out of place.


Agreed, it's ugly.


----------



## STEELINOX

I callit, "Knurlhappy" !
Happy 4th of July USA !
Thanks,
Randy


----------



## Arthur

Well, guys, from the update, September for the dials, so it's looking like late fall or winter barring any glitches. Realistically, I doubt that the first plank watches will be delivered before October or November. Remember that the entire Swiss watch industry goes on vacation for the entire month of August, so anything in progress then is on hold until they get back to work in September. 
I was really hoping for a summer watch, but that ain't gonna happen from the sound of the update. 
Hope that everyone has a safe and great Independence Day.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> Well, guys, from the update, September for the dials, so it's looking like late fall or winter barring any glitches. Realistically, I doubt that the first plank watches will be delivered before October or November. Remember that the entire Swiss watch industry goes on vacation for the entire month of August, so anything in progress then is on hold until they get back to work in September.
> I was really hoping for a summer watch, but that ain't gonna happen from the sound of the update.
> Hope that everyone has a safe and great Independence Day.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So, it will be a very Merry Christmas then !








Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## JFingers

Arthur said:


> Well, guys, from the update, September for the dials, so it's looking like late fall or winter barring any glitches. Realistically, I doubt that the first plank watches will be delivered before October or November. Remember that the entire Swiss watch industry goes on vacation for the entire month of August, so anything in progress then is on hold until they get back to work in September.
> I was really hoping for a summer watch, but that ain't gonna happen from the sound of the update.
> Hope that everyone has a safe and great Independence Day.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


There still was no mention of the bezel, no final design, let alone parts or qc, so I think Christmas is mighty optimistic imho. Don't fret, they'll be ready when they're ready.

I am really enjoying the updates, though, and it's clear that progress is being made.

Blue skies, y'all and happy Independence Day! 
-only Jake


----------



## Arthur

You may be right. Just speculation on my part. I don't even think about it much. In fact sometimes I go for days and don't check back here. I've got more watches than I can wear now, so when it comes it comes.


----------



## STEELINOX

I wonder if a jubilee or a super jubilee will fit the KEY WEST?


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Arthur

Not sure. The Jubilee is 20mm so it might. All depends on where the lug holes are in relation to the case. Might be easier to fit and older Jubilee that has the old style endlinks, because they can be bent and shaped to fit, with the newer solid end links, fitting is harder unless everything lines up. Would be and interesting experiment. I really like the Jubilees, they are super comfortable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## STEELINOX

This would just be icing onThe Cake !









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## mrklabb

I'd be interested as well...only problem is the super jubilee costs the same price as the Key West.


----------



## White Tuna

Arthur said:


> You may be right. Just speculation on my part. I don't even think about it much. In fact sometimes I go for days and don't check back here. I've got more watches than I can wear now, so when it comes it comes.


I find your optimism disturbing.


----------



## Yellowdrive

I'm trying to check my expectations for Key West delivery. I'll be happy if we have images of a completed watch by spring 2016.


----------



## powerband

Yellowdrive said:


> I'm trying to check my expectations for Key West delivery. I'll be happy if we have images of a completed watch by spring 2016.


This is a painful prognosis.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Darwin

I anticipate 3rd or 4th quarter 2016 for the second stage preorders to start rolling out... Plank kits a few months earlier. We still don't have a bezel insert design, so...



Yellowdrive said:


> I'm trying to check my expectations for Key West delivery. I'll be happy if we have images of a completed watch by spring 2016.


----------



## STEELINOX

[Edited for content]

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## STEELINOX

Darwin said:


> I anticipate 3rd or 4th quarter 2016 for the second stage preorders to start rolling out... Plank kits a few months earlier. We still don't have a bezel insert design, so...


Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here...
Why don't you peeps say something righteous and hopeful for a change...









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## TheDude

Arthur said:


> Not sure. The Jubilee is 20mm so it might. All depends on where the lug holes are in relation to the case. Might be easier to fit and older Jubilee that has the old style endlinks, because they can be bent and shaped to fit, with the newer solid end links, fitting is harder unless everything lines up. Would be and interesting experiment. I really like the Jubilees, they are super comfortable.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah, there's probably zero chance the newer bracelets would fit. An aftermarket company sent me a rubber strap with formed and fitted ends to beta test a while back and it didn't fit any of my lug hole watches (I think they designed it for modern Rolex no-lug-hole) The pin lineup for no-lug-hole is just a bit off.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

TheDude said:


> Yeah, there's probably zero chance the newer bracelets would fit. An aftermarket company sent me a rubber strap with formed and fitted ends to beta test a while back and it didn't fit any of my lug hole watches (I think they designed it for modern Rolex no-lug-hole) The pin lineup for no-lug-hole is just a bit off.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Nuts !

I am still okay with "tinning up a tuna can" in place, okay, well, hopefully without the "tinning;" I mean common - am I _that _desperate to attach a jubilee? Maybe I am !

Randy


----------



## powerband

STEELINOX said:


> Why don't you peeps say something righteous and hopeful for a change...


The Key West will be utterly fantastic.


----------



## JFingers

powerband said:


> The Key West will be utterly fantastic.


That checks!
Blue skies, y'all!
-only jake


----------



## Arthur

STEELINOX said:


> Nuts !
> 
> I am still okay with "tinning up a tuna can" in place, okay, well, hopefully without the "tinning;" I mean common - am I _that _desperate to attach a jubilee? Maybe I am !
> 
> Randy


As and older guy that put up with the old loose end links for all those years, with gaps, rattles and looseness, I'm a bit amused by some of the obsessiveness with SEL fitment. They have to fit so tight that there is absolutely no gap anywhere. With the old end links, you could get them to work, maybe not perfect but functional..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> As and older guy that put up with the old loose end links for all those years, with gaps, rattles and looseness, I'm a bit amused by some of the obsessiveness with SEL fitment. They have to fit so tight that there is absolutely no gap anywhere. With the old end links, you could get them to work, maybe not perfect but functional..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree, them tuna can clasps and rattle are too cool !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## powerband

STEELINOX said:


> Agree, them tuna can clasps and rattle are too cool !
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


My earliest memory of a watch (that my father wore) involved the audible sense. The rattling sound while handling is, in my mind, one of the traits essential to a wrist watch. My 1987 Datejust has this glorious sound, and is my all-time favorite instrument on the wrist, beating out the SubC with its modern-constructed bracelet with nearly zero tolerance.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Hey Guys -- You might want to see this post of a generic Jubilee replacement on a MKII Nassau :think:

What MKII Are You Wearing? - Page 358

--- Best ---


----------



## Chromejob

Open end links FTW? You can work with'em....


----------



## mrklabb

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Hey Guys -- You might want to see this post of a generic Jubilee replacement on a MKII Nassau :think:
> 
> What MKII Are You Wearing? - Page 358
> 
> --- Best ---


Weird question...does it tug at your hairs at all? Thanks for the idea...may have to snag one for Nassau/kw.


----------



## Arthur

mrklabb said:


> Weird question...does it tug at your hairs at all? Thanks for the idea...may have to snag one for Nassau/kw.


I have had several and never experienced any problems with hair pulling. There was one very old bracelet, 7206 maybe, came on some of the sport models back in the early 60's, now that was a hair puller! It has spring loaded expansion links but the Jubilee is not a problem.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## STEELINOX

Never had a problem with any "traditional tuna can" strappage !


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## STEELINOX

I've been looking at the knurling on the bezels of KINGSTON, et al, and the coin edging just pulls this whole casing together. 
The chamfer, the coin edge, it's very exciting !

[photo nabbed from some lucky KINGSTON Owner]
[removed for content]

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## supersmitty

STEELINOX said:


> [photo nabbed from some lucky KINGSTON Owner]
> View attachment 4735618


THAT'S MY BABY!! whoohoo she's famous!


----------



## STEELINOX

supersmitty said:


> THAT'S MY BABY!! whoohoo she's famous!


I love love luuuûuuv yer Baby !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## Chromejob

STEELINOX said:


> [photo nabbed from some lucky KINGSTON Owner]
> View attachment 4735618
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Please don't "nab" and reuse others' photos. Regardless of your intentions, it's a copyright violation, theft of someone else's intellectual property.


----------



## supersmitty

Chromejob said:


> ...someone else's intellectual property.


menh... thanks for lookin out man, but I don't mind. If you want to get technical, the pic was taken by the previous owner before I got my grubby hand on her. That pic was from the 'for sale' post. So I dunno where this falls on the IP spectrum... but I think its a cool pic, and happy my kingston can provide some eye candy to some.
I would agree however that its best to avoid controversy when ever possible.

SO... dear friends... i would like to pose a design question, since we're all kicking back drinking and waiting for production to scale up (https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/key-west-2nd-stage-pre-order-1095164-66.html).

Regarding date magnification, how would one go about finding an aftermarket cyclops to add to the KeyWest? I'm not well versed in watch modifications, and never want to half ass anything... but what does need to pull this off? The crystal is domed, not flat right... so that knocks out any rolex magnifiers right?? 
I know patience is a virtue... one we've all had to either develop or employ by being a part of this community, but oh man... not knowing whether its possible to add a cyclops to this baby is like sand in my beach shorts! BAH!!


----------



## Calibrel

Yeah, it doesn't work like that.


----------



## Calibrel

You know, I originally had planned to get a brown leather NATO for the Key West... but that hodinkee looks dead sexy.


----------



## Darwin

I'd be interested in a Cyclops on the Key West. However, my thinking is that if it were possible to do it, Bill would offer it as an option. I know quite a few people have requested/suggested it. Having said that, I have a Kingston with the date and don't feel the absence of a Cyclops one bit...



supersmitty said:


> menh... thanks for lookin out man, but I don't mind. If you want to get technical, the pic was taken by the previous owner before I got my grubby hand on her. That pic was from the 'for sale' post. So I dunno where this falls on the IP spectrum... but I think its a cool pic, and happy my kingston can provide some eye candy to some.
> I would agree however that its best to avoid controversy when ever possible.
> 
> SO... dear friends... i would like to pose a design question, since we're all kicking back drinking and waiting for production to scale up (https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/key-west-2nd-stage-pre-order-1095164-66.html).
> 
> Regarding date magnification, how would one go about finding an aftermarket cyclops to add to the KeyWest? I'm not well versed in watch modifications, and never want to half ass anything... but what does need to pull this off? The crystal is domed, not flat right... so that knocks out any rolex magnifiers right??
> I know patience is a virtue... one we've all had to either develop or employ by being a part of this community, but oh man... not knowing whether its possible to add a cyclops to this baby is like sand in my beach shorts! BAH!!


----------



## STEELINOX

The option of a plexiglass would be welcome by most here then...
A plexi'd viewer wuld be my choice over sapphire...


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## teejay

Hey guys, has it been confirmed that the bracelet on the Key West will be a Kingston/Nassau bracelet?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

teejay said:


> Hey guys, has it been confirmed that the bracelet on the Key West will be a Kingston/Nassau bracelet?


Yes.


----------



## teejay

Ok cool. Thanks man!



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Yes.


----------



## JFingers

A little inspiration to hold you over for a while...

https://www.hodinkee.com/blog/Albino-GMT-Master-6542

Blue skies, y'all! 
-only Jake


----------



## POR901

Great article.....very cool.


----------



## 66Cooper

Gee thanks a lot. Now I'm not sure if I like the white dial or black dial for my new west. Haha


----------



## mrklabb

This further drives home the fact that I need a damn jubilee to sport with my albino key west


----------



## mlb212

While I do believe the white dialed GMT was made, I don't think this one is genuine. I also kinda wished Bill would make a version of that bracelet.


----------



## BigHaole

mlb212 said:


> ... I also kinda wished Bill would make a version of that bracelet.


I also kinda wish Bill would make a version of that watch already. ;-)


----------



## Jfha1210

BigHaole said:


> I also kinda wish Bill would make a version of that watch already. ;-)


Well, I also kinda wish Bill would finish them this year... ;-)

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

mlb212 said:


> While I do believe the white dialed GMT was made, I don't think this one is genuine. I also kinda wished Bill would make a version of that bracelet.


Did you read the article? If you don't believe that one is genuine then you're basically left with the position that none of them are.

My understanding is that this watch is identical in every way to the earliest reported/documented one, lending whatever credence additional sameness provides...

I am more certain than ever that gilt print is just plain wrong for the white dial and the hands should be silver regardless of dial.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

JFingers said:


> A little inspiration to hold you over for a while...
> 
> https://www.hodinkee.com/blog/Albino-GMT-Master-6542
> 
> Blue skies, y'all!
> -only Jake


For those that didn't look into their Instagram, here's their watch under UV


----------



## Thevenin

bling bling!












MKII said:


> More testing for the ‪#‎mkiiprojectgmt‬ Today we are fitting and timing one movement across 11 case bodies to confirm the CMM data we got back.


----------



## supersmitty

mlb212 said:


> While I do believe the white dialed GMT was made, I don't think this one is genuine.


Go on, do tell... Why?



TheDude said:


> I am more certain than ever that gilt print is just plain wrong for the white dial and the hands should be silver regardless of dial.


If one is going for an accurate reproduction, adding date magnification would be required no? Would you all agree?


----------



## Aceldama

If it was an option, I'd have gotten a white dial with black printing...



TheDude said:


> Did you read the article? If you don't believe that one is genuine then you're basically left with the position that none of them are.
> 
> My understanding is that this watch is identical in every way to the earliest reported/documented one, lending whatever credence additional sameness provides...
> 
> I am more certain than ever that gilt print is just plain wrong for the white dial and the hands should be silver regardless of dial.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

supersmitty said:


> Go on, do tell... Why?
> 
> If one is going for an accurate reproduction, adding date magnification would be required no? Would you all agree?


Sure, but if you mean to imply that not going down the path of complete accuracy forgives -all- inaccuracies, I would probably disagree. Certain things have to be present/right. That's what distinguishes a Bill Yao homage from the sea of mediocre ones.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## mlb212

TheDude said:


> Did you read the article? If you don't believe that one is genuine then you're basically left with the position that none of them are.
> 
> My understanding is that this watch is identical in every way to the earliest reported/documented one, lending whatever credence additional sameness provides...


I did read all the articles...

-STEFANO MAZZARIOL BLOG-: Rolex GMT-MASTER ref .6542 ALBINO

and

VRF:

Well, not identical...the hodinkee example doesn't appear to have the "coronet ink dribble" issue that the Stefano example has for one. The lume in the hodinkee example also appears to have seriously degraded whereas the Stefano example is in relatively good shape...so not identical. We aren't given the rigorous examination of the hokinkee example as we were given with the Stefano example so we are left to wonder if they are different in other ways.


----------



## mlb212

supersmitty said:


> Go on, do tell... Why?


ug...I don't mean to criticize those who do believe it to be genuine because there are very good reasons to believe it genuine. Its a 45% genuine, 55% altered/fake. And we all need to be honest and admit that there are not enough examples to compare and examine to know if any of these are genuine. We need an example with a solid provenance from which to compare all others. We don't have that yet. We do have examples of other white dials that appear to have somewhat discoloured dials, the white Explorer II comes to mind, yet this appears to be quite pristine; in fact the dial colour appears to be almost perfect. For the record, I think most of this watch is genuine; just that dial bugs me and I need to see more of these albino GMTs to really know. I don't know if its real, I am guessing based on the information as I see it. And to be honest, none of us knows, we are all guessing. I am skeptical until shown otherwise.

Anybody know what a "jackalope" is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackalope

Well there are lots of taxidermy and photographic evidence for jackalopes too, even some poor living bunnies with antler crowns.


----------



## TheDude

mlb212 said:


> I did read all the articles...
> 
> -STEFANO MAZZARIOL BLOG-: Rolex GMT-MASTER ref .6542 ALBINO
> 
> and
> 
> VRF:
> 
> Well, not identical...the hodinkee example doesn't appear to have the "coronet ink dribble" issue that the Stefano example has for one. The lume in the hodinkee example also appears to have seriously degraded whereas the Stefano example is in relatively good shape...so not identical. We aren't given the rigorous examination of the hokinkee example as we were given with the Stefano example so we are left to wonder if they are different in other ways.


I can't actually zoom enough to see if the dribble is there or not. Also, photographing patina'd lume is tricky and lighting/post processing might account for a good portion of the color difference and possibly variation within the plots themselves. Plus you often see wide variations in lume condition on pretty much every vintage reference.

I don't discount anything you're saying regarding the lack of similar close scrutiny - we're left to either trust the writer or not as we don't have the necessary information to make a determination.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## mlb212

TheDude said:


> I can't actually zoom enough to see if the dribble is there or not. Also, photographing patina'd lume is tricky and lighting/post processing might account for a good portion of the color difference and possibly variation within the plots themselves. Plus you often see wide variations in lume condition on pretty much every vintage reference.
> 
> I don't discount anything you're saying regarding the lack of similar close scrutiny - we're left to either trust the writer or not as we don't have the necessary information to make a determination.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I agree with you, we don't know and thus I am dubious.


----------



## TheDude

mlb212 said:


> I agree with you, we don't know and thus I am dubious.


True, but going by the Malcolm Gladwell "Blink" phenomenon - I have to admit that it strikes me as "right". I used to see a real black dial 6542 about once a week so I think my brain has internalized what it's supposed to look like.

If I were contemplating its purchase I'd probably be more skeptical but with no real skin in the game...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## supersmitty

TheDude said:


> Sure, but if you mean to imply that not going down the path of complete accuracy forgives -all- inaccuracies, I would probably disagree. Certain things have to be present/right. That's what distinguishes a Bill Yao homage from the sea of mediocre ones.


Completely agree, though I was really just trying to get in a plug for a cyclops cause I really wish that it were an option with the KW.


----------



## supersmitty

mlb212 said:


> ug...I don't mean to criticize...And to be honest, none of us knows, we are all guessing. I am skeptical until shown otherwise.


None taken my friend, I was genuinely curious as to your thoughts, which frankly I agree with. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Calibrel

... How about yet another plug for a lumed bezel??

=)


----------



## BigHaole

Calibrel said:


> ... How about yet another plug for a lumed bezel??
> 
> =)


...How about yet another plug for the watch being finished this year??

But in all seriousness, I'm going with the theory (started by BigHaole) that the lack of any live bezel pics is an indication that Bill has secretly prepared a lumed sapphire bezel, as a modern interpretation of the original bakelite. Until proven wrong, I will continue to believe this!


----------



## Metropolitan

Though probably not very likely - I think a lumed bezel and a cyclops would be wonderful!


----------



## celtics1984

My vote would be for the 2.5x Cyclops. I will be perfectly fine if the Cyclops feature does not happen though. The watch is going to be so amazingly awesome that I can not hardly stand it or wait.


----------



## JPMIA

Aceldama said:


> If it was an option, I'd have gotten a white dial with black printing...


I agree!!!! If black printing was an option that is what I would be getting

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Calibrel

BigHaole said:


> Calibrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... How about yet another plug for a lumed bezel??
> 
> =)
> 
> 
> 
> ...But in all seriousness, I'm going with the theory (started by BigHaole) that the lack of any live bezel pics is an indication that Bill has secretly prepared a lumed sapphire bezel, as a modern interpretation of the original bakelite. Until proven wrong, I will continue to believe this!
Click to expand...

If i'm not mistaken, I believe there was a photo from early/mid June of Bill still designing the bezel number shapes.

If so, I doubt there's even a completed bezel to show.


----------



## Arthur

AFA the white dial 6542 being the real thing, I'm torn between two different camps. One that would lead to it being genuine is the fact that Rolex during that era did a lot of "private Label" variants. Remember, PanAm was a very good customer, and in actuality the prime mover in Rolex developing the first Rolex GMT's. Knowing that, it is certainly within the realm of reality that PanAm requested a number of GMT's with white dials. Also, since things were done much more by hand back then, it's very possible that dial printing variants existed. All this along with Rolex SA absolutely refusing to reveal any information increases the intrigue. That is one school of thought, the contrarian view, which is troubling to me is why over the years have no white dial GMT's appeared with some provenance ? If 50-75 white dial GMT's were indeed produced and given to PanAm executives, why have none surfaced from any of these folks? All it would take to put paid to this entire controversy would be one family member to put a watch up for sale with a couple of photos of dear old dad wearing his White dial GMT or a letter from PanAm awarding a watch or even testimony from a widow or family member recounting that the watch came from PanAm. Unfortunately, none of this has been forthcoming. 
All of the records from PanAm were given to the University of Florida so possibly somewhere in all of those documents is the answer. Someday someone may stumble across all the correspondence between PanAm and Rolex and the question will finally be answered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Yao said:


> It took a while to get the fonts created for the bezel but here they are. We have two versions. V1.1. is with a rounded end-ed font and V1.2 is with a square ended font.
> 
> Basically the design is done but I have to go back to tweak the proportions and the alignment of the numbers and text. (Sorry just noticed a mistake at the 60 minute marker that will be corrected.)
> 
> The bezel design here is intended to be applied to aluminum. As such I personally prefer v.1.2. I did v1.1 only because someone way back when said they wanted to see it and I thought it might look interesting but in my opinion it is just trying too hard to mimic acrylic when its not.
> 
> As far as production goes....the cases are done and will be delivered at the end of December. That just leaves the production of the bezel inserts, dials and hands. As long as there are no major objections the Project GMT can likely launch in Summer 2014.
> 
> We will move onto the case back design as long as there are no major objections so the bezel and dial designs. Case back engraving will take less time than the production of the inserts, dials and hands.
> 
> View attachment 1295274
> 
> 
> View attachment 1295273


I like vn 1.2...


Yao said:


> The Black dial will be gilt/black like the Kingston. The white dial will be gold and white using a process similar to the Kingston.


Im in for white~ like a Rhino wrestling a Gator, Baby !


BigHaole said:


> Will there be an opportunity to see photos of prototype dials, before we have to decide? I love the look of the coke bezel with black dial, but I'm wondering if I'll kick myself for not getting a white dialed version, for the sheer uniqueness.


I wont kick myself - Im in for whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiithuhhhh !


TheDude said:


> Show of hands...
> 
> How many of us 60+ would pay the balance now to keep more production cycles on the Key West?
> 
> I am willing to do so...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I think we should combine resources and start in IPO with MKII !



nick_sixx said:


>


I love this winding thingy !


66Cooper said:


> Well, might as well post this here as well. The illusive Moby Kingston. Giving us all, finally, a glimpse of what a white dialed MKII might actually look like.


I'll just salavate these posts and the "white dial" version which I am diggin so much !


----------



## eXis10z

Wow that pic just fuels the dilemma of which dial to pick when the time comes.


----------



## vandergl

Order both if you can. I did. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vandergl

Correction. I will once we get to select. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## POR901

Any updates from Bill as to the progress yet?


----------



## BigHaole

POR901 said:


> Any updates from Bill as to the progress yet?


There is a link, at the top of this page, to the MKII news page. That and their facebook page are the best for updates. Nothing recently.


----------



## POR901

BigHaole said:


> There is a link, at the top of this page, to the MKII news page. That and their facebook page are the best for updates. Nothing recently.


Yes, I've seen that....I was wondering if any of the troops from the 'underground' have heard any inside news.


----------



## Aceldama

Is there an underground? I don't think they'd last to long "in the fold" if they shared info...


----------



## gwold

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Today's update from the man: 2015-08-20: Project GMT Update

Best part (IMO): Look for two caseback designs & two surveys to choose the one we'll receive.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*



gwold said:


> Today's update from the man: 2015-08-20: Project GMT Update
> 
> Best part (IMO): Look for two caseback designs & two surveys to choose the one we'll receive.


 Thanks gwold -- :-!

Also some more information regarding bezel-insert design -

|>|>


----------



## STEELINOX

Caseback - engraved or not, is the "homestretch" for this design process I take it?


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## POR901

Looking forward to seeing the (2) case back design options.....I'd also love to see the delivered gilt dials also. Hopefully Bill will post some images here?


----------



## JFingers

STEELINOX said:


> Caseback - engraved or not, is the "homestretch" for this design process I take it?
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


I think so, though I'm obviously not a watchmaker. Case, dial, crown, date wheel have all been shown. I think we've even seen the bezel inserts at one time... Not sure what else there is besides the case back.


----------



## STEELINOX

JFingers said:


> I think so, though I'm obviously not a watchmaker. Case, dial, crown, date wheel have all been shown. I think we've even seen the bezel inserts at one time... Not sure what else there is besides the case back.


Lots of QC prior to assembly then more QC after assembly!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Darwin

As far as I can tell, the bezel inserts haven't been finalized yet.


----------



## BigHaole

Darwin said:


> As far as I can tell, the bezel inserts haven't been finalized yet.


This is my understanding, as well. And, of course, I believe the rumor that Bill has something special planned for the bezel (Bakelite, Sapphire, Carbon-Fiber...something)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

JFingers said:


> I think so, though I'm obviously not a watchmaker. Case, dial, crown, date wheel have all been shown. I think we've even seen the bezel inserts at one time... Not sure what else there is besides the case back.


:think: All the pieces need to fit together. After reading about the Kingston project, I gathered that one unpleasant and un-expected surprise was the degree to which the crown-winding-stem needed to be individually fitted to each watch. Bill had made a picture story post about why it takes so long to do it right....I'll see if I can link it in here. For those that haven't seen this one before...

Pre-built watches (aka What the h*ll takes so long!)

:think: I feel like we are getting closer to the final stretch.... It is All Good. :-!


----------



## dwg

no gilt and clean case back for me please (at least the option). Can't wait to see the bezel..


----------



## Chromejob

POR901 said:


> ...mI'd also love to see the delivered gilt dials also. Hopefully Bill will post some images here?


... Prior to the Moby Kingston making several Instagram appearances, pics of the white dial getting QCed had been posted...


----------



## vandergl

Awesome....I needed to see those pics. Buoyed my spirits.


----------



## 66Cooper

Yes, there are tons of tiny details that will need to be sorted. I remember the Kingston stem problems. I can tell you though, bill really worked his magic. I have so many watches that don't have such care given when being built. Crowns that keep winding all the way though the screw down process. Not on the Kingston. What a gem!

Very excited to see the case back designs as well. Nice to have something to look forward to.


----------



## timeturner7

66Cooper said:


> Very excited to see the case back designs as well.


Can I ask where you saw the caseback designs? Do you have a plank order and received this directly from mkii??


----------



## 66Cooper

I have not seen the case back design yet. Waiting just like you;-) I did submit a few designs and helped Bill flush out an idea. Whatever it ends up being, I'm sure its going to be sweet!


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## Yellowdrive

The wait is over. Bill just posted designs/surveys...

2015-08-28: Project GMT Update


----------



## mlb212

I wasn't blown away by the airplane design, so I voted for the blank case back. I think case backs are overrated, and would rather have bill spend his time and effort working on the side of the watch that ill be looking at 99% of the time. IMHO.


----------



## Pentameter

why can't it just be a globe w/ meridians? It's not the Pan-Am logo, but totally fits the theme (not to mention the shape of the case back)


----------



## celtics1984

I voted for option B(airplane design), which I believe will add another layer of character and uniqueness to an already fantastic watch. IMHO


----------



## Thevenin

I agree that the engraving at the back better be in a circular profile. Can be a good looking " globe ".

Otherwise, blank is always a universal fit.


----------



## Yellowdrive

mlb212 said:


> I wasn't blown away by the airplane design, so I voted for the blank case back. I think case backs are overrated, and would rather have bill spend his time and effort working on the side of the watch that ill be looking at 99% of the time. IMHO.


My comment was basically that I like having a unique case back, but wasn't crazy about the "lines" part of the design. I love the simple plane image, though.


----------



## dwg

I kind of like the globe, but.. since you can't use the panam logo, to make something what just looks a lot like it is a bit silly. I can understand, why Bill decided not to put an homage of the logo on the back of an homage watch and tried something different, but I don't particularly like it and clean case backs just look great. Even the small mkII logo and serial actually spoils it.


----------



## mlb212

Yellowdrive said:


> My comment was basically that I like having a unique case back, but wasn't crazy about the "lines" part of the design. I love the simple plane image, though.


Yeah, I agree. Bill could probably get any if these designs to look amazing...


----------



## Plat0

I'll say it: the case back designs are a huge let down but that's OK. I rarely even look at my case backs other than when I had an Omega with a sapphire case back to see the inner workings. I voted for the plain one to hopefully expedite this process but I really disliked that little plane. :/


----------



## Aceldama

Yellowdrive said:


> My comment was basically that I like having a unique case back, but wasn't crazy about the "lines" part of the design. I love the simple plane image, though.


It got my vote!


----------



## Yellowdrive

This is crazy of me to mess with, but I can't help myself. What if it was just the two lines?


----------



## gwold

Plat0 said:


> I'll say it: the case back designs are a huge let down but that's OK. I rarely even look at my case backs other than when I had an Omega with a sapphire case back to see the inner workings. I voted for the plain one to hopefully expedite this process but I really disliked that little plane. :/


I voted for the plain back (A) as well. (B) just didn't do it for me. I might've been okay if the plane & two main contrails were bisecting the case back, but offset like that with the two extra lines below doesn't ring my bell.

I did suggest that Bill use that same plane (it IS pretty nice), with an outline-only globe below. Still, (A) works fine, and that brings us to deliveries, I'll be happy.


----------



## gwold

Yellowdrive said:


> This is crazy of me to mess with, but I can't help myself. What if it was just the two lines?
> 
> View attachment 5162034


Reading my mind? ;-) Get rid of those other two lines--yep.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: When I see contrails (Great Circle route to Asia right over my house) I sometimes see four lines....two from the wingtips and sometimes two others from the ends of the horizontal stabilizers (tail).


Anyway, on this one I voted for the plain case back, and asked that it be brushed or bead-blasted. 

That Kingston case back was actually very elegant in design....like it much better than the Nassau.

--- Cheers ---


----------



## mlb212

Wait one second...has MKII ever had a case back design?


----------



## Elf1962

Not so thrilled with the two options. I have always been a fan of skeletonized but I don't think that's possible.
I thought something like this could work and it ties in to the "Jet" theme.








or maybe somethink like?


----------



## Pentameter

Elf1962 said:


> Not so thrilled with the two options. I have always been a fan of skeletonized but I don't think that's possible.
> I thought something like this could work and it ties in to the "Jet" theme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or maybe somethink like?


I had the same idea cause I'm fond of a graphic that is a circle, to match the shape of the case back. There are a lot of front-view turbine clip arts out there that could work. I still like the "globe with meridians" that is at least a nod to Pan Am the best.


----------



## Pentameter

dwg said:


> I kind of like the globe, but.. since you can't use the panam logo, to make something what just looks a lot like it is a bit silly.


Silly? I respectfully disagree. The globe certainly pre-dated Pan Am and is what their logo was based on, and it's not 'making something that looks like it' - that globe is its own icon that is used all the time. The fact that it's a circle that fits the shape perfectly is just another bonus.


----------



## JFingers

Plat0 said:


> I'll say it: the case back designs are a huge let down but that's OK. I rarely even look at my case backs other than when I had an Omega with a sapphire case back to see the inner workings. I voted for the plain one to hopefully expedite this process but I really disliked that little plane. :/


They aren't a let down to me, but I do prefer A. However, I do love an exhibition caseback, and if I thought I could get one to fit my Kingston or Key West, I would strongly consider it.

Blue skies, y'all, it seems to be coming together quite nicely.
-only jake


----------



## Jellytime

I voted option A. Just read the news update on the website. I can see the finish line in the distance.


----------



## STEELINOX

Keep in perspective the fact that this detail is the "homestretch" for the design process... Getting a final "okay" to the vendor could mean watches on peeps wrists as soon as Christmas!

I voted for "B" and suggested a "smaller" plane other than what was illustrated in the survey. A smaller version still makes for a nice detail and knocks down that process time for the laser...

I like the con trailed airliner and also agree with the option of having a sapphired caseback (JFingers only Jake)...

Thanks
Randy








Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## TheDude

I voted for the airplane but offered the observation that the orientation of the motif will be arbitrary due to the caseback threading. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

I voted for B. I too would prefer the two contrails idea. I think that the uniqueness of the Key West deserves a back with something different. AFA the globe design, I thought that it was a great idea, but Bill put the kibosh on that idea way back at the beginning. Just not worth the time trouble and aggravation that could come with using something that even faintly resembles the PanAm "meatball"With our litigious society, folks sue for less than this. Would be great and look great, but not worth the risk.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jussi

I for one wasn't to fond of the airplane caseback, so I woted "A" with a suggestion of putting a simple text on there that said "Project GMT" in perhaps the same font that Pan-Am used on their logo for us plankholders who have been living with this "project" from the begining.... and in some way gotten used to the name project Gmt over the years.


----------



## tmoris

Pentameter said:


> why can't it just be a globe w/ meridians? It's not the Pan-Am logo, but totally fits the theme (not to mention the shape of the case back)
> 
> View attachment 5161058


I like this the most and a generic globe cant possibly infringe anyones rights to anything.

A tourbine is also a good suggestion and as mentioned by others, I too prefer a design that fills the whole caseback.


----------



## dwg

Pentameter said:


> Silly? I respectfully disagree. The globe certainly pre-dated Pan Am and is what their logo was based on, and it's not 'making something that looks like it' - that globe is its own icon that is used all the time. The fact that it's a circle that fits the shape perfectly is just another bonus.


If there were no legal issues, I guess the obvious choice would be to use the globe lines from the original and put a "project GMT" or "mIIk" logo instead of Pan Am. I agree that the globe also fits the theme of a gmt watch, but I would still felt, that it's mainly there to mimic the Pan Am logo. I just think that to change something to the point, where you don't get sued is not the preferable design principle 

Is there a possibility, that the case back design would be optional?


----------



## Darwin

The Crepas/Tactico TC2 has a similar caseback (this one has since been sold on...):











Elf1962 said:


> Not so thrilled with the two options. I have always been a fan of skeletonized but I don't think that's possible.
> I thought something like this could work and it ties in to the "Jet" theme.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or maybe somethink like?


----------



## STEELINOX




----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> I voted for the airplane but offered the observation that the orientation of the motif will be arbitrary due to the caseback threading.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I thought this as well but considered it a plus compared to some of the other options that have a clear orientation.


----------



## POR901

I voted for 'A'.....IMO, if a theme is needed I think a simple globe would work.


----------



## Yellowdrive

I was definitely taken with the asymmetrical design at first viewing. I started to second-guess myself after reading some of the comments about centering the design, and how the orientation will be arbitrary, but after taking a look at the case back design for the Project 300 (an asymmetrical nautilus), I'm even more in favor of Option B. I see a theme and I like it.


----------



## tmoris

POR901 said:


> I voted for 'A'.....IMO, if a theme is needed I think a simple globe would work.


I prefer all of these over both A and B options


----------



## BigHaole

I voted for B, but I might have to go back and change it to neither. I would like a caseback design. I think it gives the watch a special relationship with the owner, since the public will (normally) never see the caseback on display, only the owner. That being said, the contrails are incorrect. Contrails come from the engines, not the wingtips, and they start a little behind the plane (as the gasses expand and cool). So there should be 4 on the plane, not two. And, in fact, you would see 4 start, then on each wing, they merge together into a single contrail. Here's an example:


----------



## Thevenin

An engraving that does not totally suit the watch in detail will be a pretty bad idea.

I think giving a blank caseback is the obvious option to cover everyone 100%. 

After all you can have it engraved with whatever you desire.


----------



## Yellowdrive

I took the design to be more of a "path" than actual contrails. Just me?


----------



## BigHaole

Yellowdrive said:


> I took the design to be more of a "path" than actual contrails. Just me?


From the decription of option B in the survey, "...we developed a simple illustration of a multi-engine aircraft and the contrails that it would create in the sky."


----------



## BigHaole

How about a 707 cross section? This is from aviationexplorer.com, with a nice history of the 707. The top cross section would make an attractive and meaningful case back design.


----------



## powerband

I choose a blank, cleanly polished case back over the jet plane and some misplaced lines representing contrails. 

This is a personal perspective and represents only me, and therefore my vote: I'm no pilot and I fly only once or twice a year for family vacations and maybe a boondoggle somewhere in between. I love a GMT watch for various reasons, but crossing time zones with regularity isn't one of them. I prefer the watch to be more flexible in its meaning for me.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## mlb212

tmoris said:


> I prefer all of these over both A and B options


Yeah, me too. I am becoming more convinced with a blank case back (as per MKII tradition) but I like the globe and the turbine. I also like some of the planes circling globes.


----------



## Pentameter

STEELINOX said:


> View attachment 5168698


This is awesome. Would much prefer this one over the two options presented in the survey.


----------



## dwg

so I played with the Pan Am logo a bit, just to see, what we are talking about:








I didn't even put mIIk sign over it, as I don't want Bill to go to jail (until he finishes my watch 
The logo was done by some of the best and most successful designers (Chermayeff and Geismar) and while stealing it, I realized how great it looks.

Then I googled some more pan am graphics and found another great simple design:









and i stole just a little bit:








But I guess it still looks worse, than a blank case


----------



## STEELINOX

Pentameter said:


> This is awesome. Would much prefer this one over the two options presented in the survey.


Why, thank you!

Here is another...

Thanks,
Randy









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

dwg said:


> View attachment 5173194


If something were to go on the caseback, then either of these will look great! I like this design.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

powerband said:


> I choose a blank, cleanly polished case back over the jet plane and some misplaced lines representing contrails.
> 
> This is a personal perspective and represents only me, and therefore my vote: I'm no pilot and I fly only once or twice a year for family vacations and maybe a boondoggle somewhere in between.* I love a GMT watch for various reasons*, but crossing time zones with regularity isn't one of them. *I prefer the watch to be more flexible in its meaning for me.*
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


I'm with You. A lot of this has been covered before. 'Elegance' as a concept, takes in simplicity....And Much More.

:think: -- It sort of an 'Eastern thing' ... (I mean like, pertaining to the Far Eastern and Indian subcontinent 'ways of thought' and 'ways of being', etc)

Not doing a very good job of being clear here, except for this to consider:

*Simpler is quicker and easier to accomplish. * And, in this case.....* I want my Project GMT's Sooner...rather than Later.* 

Don't lose sight of that.

...And a lot of the 'Airplane Stuff" was covered earlier in the Project -- (My favorite is an etch of one of the original Clippers from the 1930's-1940's). It was not 'embraced'...

These are some good ideas, but more complicated, perhaps more involved as far as design and incorporation. Could cost more, and take longer. Increased cost and time, and potential for problems...(Likely increases as the amount of process time needed to do the actual engraving...) May increase the rejection rate for pieces that don't pass QC.

All of this will Eat Up Time -- Something We Have all been Aware of,,,,,

....Learning All the Time....

;-)


----------



## TheDude

Darwin said:


> The Crepas/Tactico TC2 has a similar caseback (this one has since been sold on...):
> 
> View attachment 5167082


You guys have heard of Breitling right? (wink)










"This turbine-shaped construction, serving as a resonance chamber for the alarm and the other audible indications, is a marvel of micro-mechanical engineering. Each of its 24 blades has been cut out with extreme precision and then hand-assembled and fusion-soldered."

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

While a lot of the ideas are really interesting and I really like Randy's Havana themed Caseback, it is historically interesting, but not period correct,as PanAm had abandoned the Havana route well before the 707's debut. Havana was pretty much closed off to US air traffic after the Cuban Revolution. However this is a moot point, as my take on the survey is a choice of a sterile back or the back with the airplane with contrails. There may be a bit of "tweaking" of the airplane back, like moving the contrails,etc. but from what I see, that's about it. Some of the other ideas or great, but my take is they ain't gonna happen. Just sheer speculation on my part, but I believe that Bill has somewhat of a timeline established for the Key West, and a radical redesign of the Caseback would certainly set that timeline back a fair amount. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> While a lot of the ideas are really interesting and I really like Randy's Havana themed Caseback, it is historically interesting, but not period correct,as PanAm had abandoned the Havana route well before the 707's debut. Havana was pretty much closed off to US air traffic after the Cuban Revolution. However this is a moot point, as my take on the survey is a choice of a sterile back or the back with the airplane with contrails. There may be a bit of "tweaking" of the airplane back, like moving the contrails,etc. but from what I see, that's about it. Some of the other ideas or great, but my take is they ain't gonna happen. Just sheer speculation on my part, but I believe that Bill has somewhat of a timeline established for the Key West, and a radical redesign of the Caseback would certainly set that timeline back a fair amount.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Agree, this is all just moot, and I would hope that Bill does the plane with contrails - if at all...

Sidebar: my caseback could be an interpretation of modern day events as we are now re establishing relations with Cuba :winky-wink

I would prefer that he stay on track than entertain anything further that has been brain stormed...

I'd rather see peeps with wrist shots come Christmas than more work on a caseback; we're just too close to the end...

So, therya go !

Thanks,
Randy

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## tmoris

Im sorry to say this, but its rather disappointing to see so many designs by forum members showing up in a 48hr time period that pretty much are all superior to what Bill came up with during several months. For me setting with a blank caseback is a sign of failure to deliver as it was clearly stated that the LE will have a specific caseback..


----------



## Jfha1210

I have chosen the simpler design. I would prefer to focus on the (bakelite...) bezel insert all the remaining effort...


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## mrklabb

Jfha1210 said:


> I have chosen the simpler design. I would prefer to focus on the (bakelite...) bezel insert all the remaining effort...
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


I think many would agree but isn't this a pipe dream at this point?


----------



## STEELINOX

tmoris said:


> Im sorry to say this, but its rather disappointing to see so many designs by forum members showing up in a 48hr time period that pretty much are all superior to what Bill came up with during several months. For me setting with a blank caseback is a sign of failure to deliver as it was clearly stated that the LE will have a specific caseback..


(Edited for content)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elf1962

dwg said:


> so I played with the Pan Am logo a bit, just to see, what we are talking about:
> View attachment 5173026
> 
> 
> I didn't even put mIIk sign over it, as I don't want Bill to go to jail (until he finishes my watch
> The logo was done by some of the best and most successful designers (Chermayeff and Geismar) and while stealing it, I realized how great it looks.
> 
> Then I googled some more pan am graphics and found another great simple design:
> 
> View attachment 5173082
> 
> 
> and i stole just a little bit:
> 
> View attachment 5173194
> 
> But I guess it still looks worse, than a blank case


Very clean and elegant...................gets my vote for simplicity


----------



## Darwin

I voted a couple of days ago for the plain caseback. Would be very happy with the plane and contrails as well, but as others have noted, I spend 99% of my time looking at the dial of my watch; what's on the back is of little concern to me. I've had the Crepas Tektite and the Tactico TC2, both of which ha very cool caseback,s but after admiring them briefly after they arrived, I never really noticed them again. The vintage SM300 that's on my wrist as I type this, the vintage dress Seamasters in my collection, the vintage Giroxa diver, and my vintage Seiko divers all have cool casebacks and it's the same story... I understand that others may place more importance on the caseback design than do I, but for me, it's very much secondary to the elements of the watch that will a. be seen by myself on a regular basis and b. affect the comfort of the watch on my wrist (which is somewhat a known quantity as the Kingston and Nassau are just fine, with one caveat - read on). 

With respect to my comment above about comfort on wrist, THE BIGGEST request I would make would be to have the bracelet include a couple of half-link - the Kingston and Nassau bracelet is right in between my wrist size - I'm either on the last micro-adjustment hole on the clasp or the first, and at both settings it's just not right (slightly loose. On the last micro-adjustment hole I have no where to go but "too tight" while on the first have no where to go but "too loose")!


----------



## heebs

Darwin said:


> ...THE BIGGEST... right in between... slightly loose... "too tight"... "too loose")!


Size confusion?


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> Agree, this is all just moot, and I would hope that Bill does the plane with contrails - if at all...
> 
> *Sidebar: my caseback could be an interpretation of modern day events as we are now re establishing relations with Cuba :winky-wink
> *
> I would prefer that he stay on track than entertain anything further that has been brain stormed...
> 
> I'd rather see peeps with wrist shots come Christmas than more work on a caseback; we're just too close to the end...
> 
> So, therya go !
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


This has nothing to do with the watch.


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> This has nothing to do with the watch.


Hence the "sidebar" ! 
And since it drew your attention, I believe it be "effective"!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mlb212

I am impressed with some of these ideas, some really great stuff here. In the spirit of inspiration for the era I thought this might be worth a look.

https://www.callisto-publishers.com/en/buecher/airline-visual-identity-1945-1975

and a slideshow of some of the art

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/30/t...on&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=0


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> Hence the "sidebar" !
> And since it drew your attention, I believe it be "effective"!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, it is not effective. It has nothing to do with the watch.


----------



## mlb212

I am getting jealous of other people's pics so...


----------



## Calibrel

Yellowdrive said:


> This is crazy of me to mess with, but I can't help myself. What if it was just the two lines?
> 
> View attachment 5162034





gwold said:


> Reading my mind? ;-) Get rid of those other two lines--yep.


I too liked the second option as well, but it certainly feels "incomplete".

I was thinking maybe it was intended to be something more along the lines of this?


----------



## Chromejob

I believe the pan am globe that we are all skittish about is a 1960s logo. Revisit this pic I took at the National Air & Space museum in May.










Voila. 50s logo, more contemporaneous with the 6542 introduction. Right, Arthur?


----------



## White Tuna

Calibrel said:


> I too liked the second option as well, but it certainly feels "incomplete".
> 
> I was thinking maybe it was intended to be something more along the lines of this?
> 
> View attachment 5186450


I like the plane silhouette a lot. Lose the lines, make it bigger and surround it in a circle and I would be very happy.

I am slightly disappointed in the designs but I am not concerned no matter what the option is.


----------



## Aceldama

After reading all of these suggestions, I'm leaning toward a clean case back, especially if this cuts down on the wait times for everyone. I hardly every look at the back of my Speedmaster. The dial and bezel is much more important.


----------



## 66Cooper

I really dig this. Its completely not what I was thinking but captures the idea so well. Nicely done!



STEELINOX said:


> Why, thank you!
> 
> Here is another...
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> I really dig this. Its completely not what I was thinking but captures the idea so well. Nicely done!


I like it too without the Clipper and Havana.


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> I really dig this. Its completely not what I was thinking but captures the idea so well. Nicely done!


I appreciate your comments...

Randy

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## 66Cooper

I was more into the images. Assume the copy would have to go


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> I like it too without the Clipper and Havana.


I also appreciate those words...

The words "Clipper" '& "Havana," are totally removable...

Thanks, 
Randy

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> I was more into the images. Assume the copy would have to go


Though the "plane landing" on the strip is nice, the copy ties the "scene" and the "limited number series" together...

Thanks,
Randy

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> I appreciate your comments...
> 
> Randy
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


It is the best concept I have seen and light years ahead of the two options given. It is what I expect from a limited edition case back.


----------



## STEELINOX

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both of these are great. I would like to see Bill consider one of these for the limited edition case back, even if I had to wait a bit longer.


----------



## STEELINOX

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Okay - I'm done !










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Okay, just one more...










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pentameter

Aceldama said:


> After reading all of these suggestions, I'm leaning toward a clean case back, especially if this cuts down on the wait times for everyone. I hardly every look at the back of my Speedmaster. The dial and bezel is much more important.


I respectfully disagree. I loved looking at the back of my Speedy&#8230; I think unique case-back designs are something special for the owner. Everybody gets to see & appreciate the dial, but only the person wearing the watch will ever see the back. Is it necessary? No, but like I said I dig it. And we have waited so long now, what's a little longer to hammer out another special detail? And I mean it's a homage watch so there's not a ton of room to implement something unique. Putting a special design on the case back is a nice way to do something without deviating from the original.


----------



## Darwin

I have, but have never seen the caseback before...



TheDude said:


> You guys have heard of Breitling right? (wink)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "This turbine-shaped construction, serving as a resonance chamber for the alarm and the other audible indications, is a marvel of micro-mechanical engineering. Each of its 24 blades has been cut out with extreme precision and then hand-assembled and fusion-soldered."
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

Darwin said:


> I have, but have never seen the caseback before...


You can't really top that imo. Dual caseback for watertightness.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## dwg

so what do we know about the insert? To me the colors are the single most important thing about this watch - especially if you get pepsi bezel.


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> You can't really top that imo. Dual caseback for watertightness.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Domed caseback?


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> Domed caseback?
> View attachment 5202810


This claims "double caseback".

http://www.masterhorologer.com/2014/08/breitling-airwolf-chronograph.html?m=1

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Case back "Bump"!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Boo ya back !









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

I did a VERY quick digital sketch of one of your drawings. I didnt capture the cool vibe you achieved but thought I'd give it a go.


----------



## STEELINOX

Cockpit back !









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> I did a VERY quick digital sketch of one of your drawings. I didnt capture the cool vibe you achieved but thought I'd give it a go.
> 
> View attachment 5204194


That is sweet !
(The Wife, saidso too!)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> I did a VERY quick digital sketch of one of your drawings. I didnt capture the cool vibe you achieved but thought I'd give it a go.
> 
> View attachment 5204194


Winner, winner, STEELINOX dinner! Thank you to both of you. I would love this case back. Someone contact Bill and ask. I will back you, which you know, means nothing.


----------



## Arthur

Chromejob said:


> I believe the pan am globe that we are all skittish about is a 1960s logo. Revisit this pic I took at the National Air & Space museum in May.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Voila. 50s logo, more contemporaneous with the 6542 introduction. Right, Arthur?


Very true Sir, the 50's logos would be more in keeping with the 6542, as it was introduced in the mid-late 50's. However PanAm was also using the "Globe" logo at the same time. 








According to the PanAm Museum, the above logo was used from 1957 til 1970. I would suspect that if, and that's a big if, any case backs were engraved, they would have used this simpler logo. 
This is,I'm afraid, beating a dead horse as the use of this or any logo that remotely resembles any of the old PanAm logos could be construed as copyright infringement.
If any decoration is chosen, I suspect it will be a variant of the jet with contrails. 
If the vote is for a "sterile" Caseback , the owner can always send the Caseback to and engraver and have anything they want engraved. If I chose to have a "globe" engraved with MKII or KEY WEST in place of PanAm, then that's my choice and it doesn't affect anyone else.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

I actually worked on a logo with Bill that was based on older globe with wings style. Personally, I didnt like it and I think once Bill saw, neither did he. It TOTALLY doesnt "fit" on a case back.


----------



## Thieuster

66Cooper said:


> I did a VERY quick digital sketch of one of your drawings. I didnt capture the cool vibe you achieved but thought I'd give it a go.
> 
> View attachment 5204194


I love it! A+

A few questions though... Those vertical wing tips are very 'modern' I think. Back in time (60s), those weren't even invented. When these are gone, the theme oozes even more a 60s atmosphere. The control tower: is it an existing building or a beautiful artist's impression of a Caribbean control tower?

Don't think I want to be too critical here: I LOVE the design and I think that Bill should at least try to get this job done. Finally, I think that your contribution adds to the 'Designed by the Forum' journey we've had with this watch (tbh, I am still proud that I came up with 'Key West'). This caseback design is -for me- the icing on the cake. Or better here: the umbrella in your cocktail!

Menno


----------



## STEELINOX

Thieuster said:


> I love it! A+
> 
> A few questions though... Those vertical wing tips are very 'modern' I think. Back in time (60s), those weren't even invented. When these are gone, the theme oozes even more a 60s atmosphere. The control tower: is it an existing building or a beautiful artist's impression of a Caribbean control tower?
> 
> Don't think I want to be too critical here: I LOVE the design and I think that Bill should at least try to get this job done. Finally, I think that your contribution adds to the 'Designed by the Forum' journey we've had with this watch (tbh, I am still proud that I came up with 'Key West'). This caseback design is -for me- the icing on the cake. Or better here: the umbrella in your cocktail!
> 
> Menno


The "winglets" are indeed a modern era aerodynamic feature...

A "silhouette 707" shouldn't be hard to source to replace this aircraft; likely a 737...

The tower is quite unique in that it almost looks like a built up island wooden structure, worthy of what we are trying to accomplish here...

Thanks,
Randy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pentameter

Arthur said:


> This is,I'm afraid, beating a dead horse as the use of this or any logo that remotely resembles any of the old PanAm logos could be construed as copyright infringement.


Again I must respectfully disagree here. The globe icon is what they based their logo on in the first place. They have no claim to the globe or meridians - anyone can use these designs which, IMO would resemble the PA logo because that's what they were imitating in the first place. Maybe I just don't like the pessimistic talk because I feel like that's not how things get accomplished. I work with lawyers every day and I often hear this term bandied about as a way to make sure we are clear on things - "similar but different".


----------



## Pentameter

66Cooper said:


> I actually worked on a logo with Bill that was based on older globe with wings style. Personally, I didnt like it and I think once Bill saw, neither did he. It TOTALLY doesnt "fit" on a case back.


take the wings off and it will!


----------



## 66Cooper

These are what I was working on. Get rid of the wings, and you have a globe, be it a slightly different one then that of the Panam logo we are all used to seeing. That would work for me as well but might seem the obvious thing to do. Maybe too obvious?


----------



## Calibrel

66Cooper said:


> These are what I was working on. Get rid of the wings, and you have a globe, be it a slightly different one then that of the Panam logo we are all used to seeing. That would work for me as well but might seem the obvious thing to do. Maybe too obvious?[iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5207234&d=1441133186"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]


I reeeeeeeally like those! I like the winged design the best, but think the globe Key West makes for a better caseback.

I was actually coming here to post that I found this free, royalty free stock image online. Pretty close to the PanAm logo, but without any legal worries.


----------



## gwold

66Cooper said:


> These are what I was working on. Get rid of the wings, and you have a globe, be it a slightly different one then that of the Panam logo we are all used to seeing. That would work for me as well but might seem the obvious thing to do. Maybe too obvious?
> View attachment 5207234


As you said, the winged globe doesn't feel like it fits, and the Key West globe looks too much like a basketball (IMO).

I have to say I really prefer STEELINOX's drawings, particularly the one you drafted, to these near-PanAm designs. Change the plane's silhouette as discussed, play with the size ratios between the palm, plane, & tower, and bingo! It has a great feel, inspires both an excitement and a nostalgia, and ties in well to the history. My only nagging doubt is, will it still look good in 10, 20 years, or will it seem hokey?


----------



## tmoris

i just hope people update their vote accordingly so that the outcome of the survey is not that the majority is happy with a blank caseback just to make the five year wait over already..


----------



## BigHaole

I'm completely on board with an era appropriate silhouette landing at a palm tree airport. I'd even happily take the original version with "Welcome to Havana" (the perfect complement to the Key West name). And, as an added bonus, the much hoped for successor to the Key West, the cigar dialed generally available "Havana" can have "Welcome to Key West".

I'm going to change my vote to liking neither original option.


----------



## mlb212

I am sticking with blank until the palm tree case back is officially an option.


----------



## Pentameter

66Cooper said:


> These are what I was working on. Get rid of the wings, and you have a globe, be it a slightly different one then that of the Panam logo we are all used to seeing. That would work for me as well but might seem the obvious thing to do. Maybe too obvious?
> View attachment 5207234


Thanks for posting these. I dig the 'airline pin' design but agree that it doesn't really fit. I really feel like a globe of some sort is the ideal design here; it can be done simply without much detail, it fits the travel theme of the watch, AND it fits the shape of the case back. Personally I love the Pan-Am style logo w/ 'Key West' that you have posted here, but I understand if that's too similar to the official Pan Am logo. If we can't do that, then my first vote remains a globe of some sort, although the latest design you have posted with the 'plane landing' motif are also very cool.


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> These are what I was working on. Get rid of the wings, and you have a globe, be it a slightly different one then that of the Panam logo we are all used to seeing. That would work for me as well but might seem the obvious thing to do. Maybe too obvious?
> View attachment 5207234


I really like the globe with the KEY WEST across the middle. I wish there were some way that this could be done. I don't think it will happen though. Although Pentameter and I disagree about the generic nature of the globe, I feel like it's not just the globe, but the application. And maybe I'm too cautious, but if the folks who own the PanAm logos and copyrights think that You are infringing on their copyrights, then it's going to cost money, time and most of all, it's a distraction for Bill at a time when he could be at his bench, rather than fighting with lawyers.
If the Caseback ends up sterile, I will most probably send mine to a friend who does engraving and have him engrave that exact same logo on mine. If you do it yourself, it's personalization, as long as I'm not selling them!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Your friend, what kind of engraving does he do? I not sure what it's called but I'd love to find someone that can do legit engraving. Deep, wide lines that really look professional


----------



## mlb212

Arthur said:


> I really like the globe with the KEY WEST across the middle. I wish there were some way that this could be done. I don't think it will happen though. Although Pentameter and I disagree about the generic nature of the globe, I feel like it's not just the globe, but the application. And maybe I'm too cautious, but if the folks who own the PanAm logos and copyrights think that You are infringing on their copyrights, then it's going to cost money, time and most of all, it's a distraction for Bill at a time when he could be at his bench, rather than fighting with lawyers.
> If the Caseback ends up sterile, I will most probably send mine to a friend who does engraving and have him engrave that exact same logo on mine. If you do it yourself, it's personalization, as long as I'm not selling them!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Is this a legit CNC type operation?


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> Your friend, what kind of engraving does he do? I not sure what it's called but I'd love to find someone that can do legit engraving. Deep, wide lines that really look professional


I'm not sure what you mean by "legit" engraving? He doesn't do plates for counterfeit money!! I think that he does some personalized stuff like names, initials and artwork. I believe that he uses a diamond point "drag engraver for some work, other things, not sure. If it get's to the point where we have a blank Caseback, I will have mine engraved and ask him if he is interested in doing more. He has a full time job, as a machinist, so this is a part time thing.
There are lots of engravers around, problem is most that I know are hand engravers and do decorative work like knives, belt buckles, etc. most of them are pretty expensive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

I think what he meant was the same as what I am talking about. An engraver that does things you might see, well, on a case back of a high end watch. Not like what you see on a trophy you got for best tie on "whacky tie Wednesday". You catch me? I have no idea how any of the designs would actually be engraved but it would need to be more then just thin outlines. So, if we are talking about the actual Pan Am globe, all the thick lines that make up the image would be carved out. That would really be something!


----------



## Thieuster

To give you an idea about the look and feel: back in the late 60s, Glycine introduced the a 24hr watch with the (then) modern SST theme. Supersonic flights between the continents. The caseback of that watch doesn't look hokey (didn't know that word, had to look it up), I think!

Menno


----------



## tmoris

mlb212 said:


> I am sticking with blank until the palm tree case back is officially an option.


I dont think Bill is following this thread closely. I do think though that he will follow it closely if thats what the survey will tell him to do (by disliking both designs and mentioning the ones in this thread)


----------



## STEELINOX

tmoris said:


> I dont think Bill is following this thread closely. I do think though that he will follow it closely if thats what the survey will tell him to do (by disliking both designs and mentioning the ones in this thread)


I received an email from Bill, my illustration was referenced by members to which he asked for me to send along to him. I also sent 66Cooper's super sweet picture along as well....

[edited: I did not have any Poll feedback results disclosed to me from Bill Yao]

Thanks,
Randy










































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## celtics1984

I like your design Randy and will change my final vote to support your great design. To have a MKII forums case back design on my watch would be icing on the cake.


----------



## 66Cooper

Yes, bill has reached out for the drawings yesterday. Nothing gets past our fearless leader;-)


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> I received an email from Bill, and yes the survey has indicated negative results from the Poll and there were also some Forum members favoring my illustration which he asked for me to send to him. I also sent 66Cooper's super sweet picture along as well....
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





66Cooper said:


> Yes, bill has reached out for the drawings yesterday. Nothing gets past our fearless leader;-)


Thank you! Faith renewed! I like Randy's design precisely because it does not look like any other design. Also I like the Key West Globe design because it does look like another design. I am glad El Presidente Yoa is on this.


----------



## Chromejob

Arthur said:


> Very true Sir, the 50's logos would be more in keeping with the 6542, as it was introduced in the mid-late 50's. However PanAm was also using the "Globe" logo at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the PanAm Museum, the above logo was used from 1957 til 1970. I would suspect that if, and that's a big if, any case backs were engraved, they would have used this simpler logo....


I've seen pics of engraved 6542 case backs with the globe logo. My thinking is that even though a globe with meridians is generic and predates pan am's use, the earlier badge designs offer an image that would not violate a current trademark...



66Cooper said:


> I actually worked on a logo with Bill that was based on older globe with wings style. Personally, I didnt like it and I think once Bill saw, neither did he. It TOTALLY doesnt "fit" on a case back.


Hmph! 



Pentameter said:


> Again I must respectfully disagree here. The globe icon is what they based their logo on in the first place. They have no claim to the globe or meridians - anyone can use these designs which, IMO would resemble the PA logo because that's what they were imitating in the first place. Maybe I just don't like the pessimistic talk because I feel like that's not how things get accomplished. I work with lawyers every day and I often hear this term bandied about as a way to make sure we are clear on things - "similar but different".


YES. And a globe with longitudinal lines is more appropriate. We are after all discussing TIME ZONES, not latitudes.



66Cooper said:


> These are what I was working on. Get rid of the wings, and you have a globe, be it a slightly different one then that of the Panam logo we are all used to seeing. That would work for me as well but might seem the obvious thing to do. Maybe too obvious?
> View attachment 5207234


YES YES YES! (Winged globe)


----------



## Jellytime

STEELINOX said:


> I received an email from Bill, and yes the survey has indicated negative results from the Poll and there were also some Forum members favoring my illustration which he asked for me to send to him. I also sent 66Cooper's super sweet picture along as well....
> 
> Thanks,
> Randy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very nice. Thanks for contributing such a great design. Hopefully he does another survey with your design.


----------



## Packleader

BigHaole said:


> I'm completely on board with an era appropriate silhouette landing at a palm tree airport. I'd even happily take the original version with "Welcome to Havana" (the perfect complement to the Key West name). And, as an added bonus, the much hoped for successor to the Key West, the cigar dialed generally available "Havana" can have "Welcome to Key West". I'm going to change my vote to liking neither original option.


 In the survey, I suggested adding the words "Key West" and "Havana" on either side of the flight path. Cheers, Packleader


----------



## Pentameter

66Cooper said:


> Yes, bill has reached out for the drawings yesterday. Nothing gets past our fearless leader;-)


this is phenomenal news!! Cheers to everyone that contributed feedback & designs.


----------



## dwg

just remember.. the only design you never get bored with, is the design, which is not there


----------



## powerband

66Cooper said:


> I did a VERY quick digital sketch of one of your drawings. I didnt capture the cool vibe you achieved but thought I'd give it a go.
> 
> View attachment 5204194


This reminds me of being on vacation. I like it. Who wouldn't want to take off their watch in the middle of a busy day, look at the caseback, and escape to an island?


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> I think what he meant was the same as what I am talking about. An engraver that does things you might see, well, on a case back of a high end watch. Not like what you see on a trophy you got for best tie on "whacky tie Wednesday". You catch me? I have no idea how any of the designs would actually be engraved but it would need to be more then just thin outlines. So, if we are talking about the actual Pan Am globe, all the thick lines that make up the image would be carved out. That would really be something!


I got you. No, I believe that what he does is pretty nice deep engraving, not like what your local trophy shop engraved on a bowling trophy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

I like the one above, very unique. The airplane needs to be different, that is a much more modern image, need to lose the winglets. Also the 707 was a 4 engine airplane. Here is a photo of a 707 with the landing gear down landing.









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> I like the one above, very unique. The airplane needs to be different, that is a much more modern image, need to lose the winglets. Also the 707 was a 4 engine airplane. Here is a photo of a 707 with the landing gear down landing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Like this...


----------



## powerband

I voted for "blank" caseback because I don't like option B. But I would vote for this one (minus the winglet) over the "blank" option, by an order of a magnitude.










Well done, designer(s)!

Hope we can get this show back on the road soon.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

STEELINOX said:


> Like this...
> View attachment 5225818


That looks great!! I could sure live with that design.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Packleader

Thieuster said:


> I love it! A+
> 
> A few questions though... Those vertical wing tips are very 'modern' I think. Back in time (60s), those weren't even invented. When these are gone, the theme oozes even more a 60s atmosphere. The control tower: is it an existing building or a beautiful artist's impression of a Caribbean control tower?
> 
> Don't think I want to be too critical here: I LOVE the design and I think that Bill should at least try to get this job done. Finally, I think that your contribution adds to the 'Designed by the Forum' journey we've had with this watch (tbh, I am still proud that I came up with 'Key West'). This caseback design is -for me- the icing on the cake. Or better here: the umbrella in your cocktail!
> 
> Menno


That was you who came up with 'Key West'? I absolutely agree with your 'Designed by the Forum' feeling. The watch is already that much more enjoyable to me, knowing that it's full of ideas from the fellows that I've been posting with these past 3 1/2 years.

As for me, the name 'Havana' was my only original suggestion for the design.

How would you like the PanAm to look? - Page 31

Oh well. Maybe the next watch will have something of me in it.

Cheers,

Packleader


----------



## rmassony

I must say that I would strongly prefer a blank caseback to the design above.

A couple thoughts: 

1. I'm not opposed to the concept (plane on final approach in Caribbean locale) per se, but if we end up doing it I would hope that it gets much tighter/simpler. I would remove the control tower altogether. A very simple design with an outline of a plane and a stylized palm tree could have the desired effect without issues over how to space the three elements. Or maybe just a palm tree right in the center. A subtle nod to the Key West name without knocking you over the head.

2. On the other hand, I'm a little disappointed that Bill didn't pursue the concept of listing out the time zones on the back. I like the idea of the caseback providing useful information. I think it would be fitting for a tool watch. If done correctly, I think it could be quite elegant. I envision two concentric circles with staggered names of cities (see the Nomos Zurich Worldtimer below as an example), then 24 lines radiating out from a center point to hit the center of each city name. There could be a design in the center (a simple rosette or compass rose-ish cross), or you could have a circle with the MKII logo. I'll admit that this would be a design challenge to get the fonts and spacing correct, but so is the above Jimmy Buffett idea that people appear to be gravitating towards.

Just my thoughts. In the end I trust Bill's design instincts.


----------



## STEELINOX

rmassony said:


> I must say that I would strongly prefer a blank caseback to the design above.
> 
> A couple thoughts:
> 
> 1. I'm not opposed to the concept (plane on final approach in Caribbean locale) per se, but if we end up doing it I would hope that it gets much tighter/simpler. I would remove the control tower altogether. A very simple design with an outline of a plane and a stylized palm tree could have the desired effect without issues over how to space the three elements. Or maybe just a palm tree right in the center. A subtle nod to the Key West name without knocking you over the head.
> 
> 2. On the other hand, I'm a little disappointed that Bill didn't pursue the concept of listing out the time zones on the back. I like the idea of the caseback providing useful information. I think it would be fitting for a tool watch. If done correctly, I think it could be quite elegant. I envision two concentric circles with staggered names of cities (see the Nomos Zurich Worldtimer below as an example), then 24 lines radiating out from a center point to hit the center of each city name. There could be a design in the center (a simple rosette or compass rose-ish cross), or you could have a circle with the MKII logo. I'll admit that this would be a design challenge to get the fonts and spacing correct, but so is the above Jimmy Buffett idea that people appear to be gravitating towards.
> 
> Just my thoughts. In the end I trust Bill's design instincts.


----------



## powerband

A caseback engraving of global time zones is a great idea. I personally don't fly that often, yet this would be useful in other ways. Plus, it's fundamentally proper for a watch like this, a GMT.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## rmassony

In case it wasn't obvious what I was talking about in my 2nd point above (the concentric rings of city names and the radiating lines), here's a sketch. Obviously this would take some tinkering to get the right city names and to get the lines to match up, but this is the concept.


----------



## Packleader

I just updated my caseback survey (today is the last day!) to include my support for the palm tree design in my survey comments. What about "Key West" on the Dial and "Havana" on the caseback with the palm tree? ... still clutching tight to the "Havana" theme... Cheers, Packleader


----------



## BigHaole

Packleader said:


> I just updated my caseback survey (today is the last day!) to include my support for the palm tree design in my survey comments. What about "Key West" on the Dial and "Havana" on the caseback with the palm tree? ... still clutching tight to the "Havana" theme... Cheers, Packleader


I'm with you on the Havana idea. My support going back to post #1 on this very thread!


----------



## BigHaole

STEELINOX said:


> Like this...
> View attachment 5225818


I know it's an optical illusion, but the original looked like it was landing...this one looks like it's flying away.


----------



## Jellytime

Gotta keep the tower. It balances the negative space.


----------



## dwg

rmassony said:


> In case it wasn't obvious what I was talking about in my 2nd point above (the concentric rings of city names and the radiating lines), here's a sketch. Obviously this would take some tinkering to get the right city names and to get the lines to match up, but this is the concept.


That is a great idea and it may even be better without the lines in the middle. The only problem may be, that Bill also needs to put there a serial number and probably also mIIk logo. I guess that "mIIk" could be placed in the middle or left out at all and serial could be placed on the side of the case between the lugs?


----------



## Elf1962

This mornings Facebook post from MKII









The #mkiiprojectgmt bezel design work is done. Now the hard part is picking the colors. Leaning toward 293/287 for the blue and 200/193 for the red. If you have an opinion please let us know!


----------



## mlb212

Elf1962 said:


> This mornings Facebook post from MKII
> The #mkiiprojectgmt bezel design work is done. Now the hard part is picking the colors. Leaning toward 293/287 for the blue and 200/193 for the red. If you have an opinion please let us know!


Enough with the case back, this is actually important. 293 and 200. Those reds look a little pastel? I was hoping for a cherry red. Filter?


----------



## 66Cooper

My Pantone book is at the office but I'm going to say that there is a filter for sure...like all his pic seem to have. I'll have to wait till Tuesday to see which I like nest


----------



## 66Cooper

Internet search of 293 and 200


----------



## mlb212

66Cooper said:


> Internet search of 293 and 200


You're a God damn genius. I definitely like these two colours.


----------



## Thevenin

66Cooper said:


> Internet search of 293 and 200


They appear to be perfect choices. At least on my iPhone display.


----------



## STEELINOX

293/193...


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## 66Cooper

Here 287 and 193


----------



## 66Cooper

If it wasn't a holiday weekend and I swore I would NOT get on the computer, I'd mock up a bezel in all combos for us. Blast my self set rules!!


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> Internet search of 293 and 200


Okay, I like this too !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## eXis10z

66Cooper said:


> If it wasn't a holiday weekend and I swore I would NOT get on the computer, I'd mock up a bezel in all combos for us. Blast my self set rules!!


Rules are meant to be broken.


----------



## mlb212

66Cooper said:


> If it wasn't a holiday weekend and I swore I would NOT get on the computer, I'd mock up a bezel in all combos for us. Blast my self set rules!!


Mock Ups! Mock Ups! Mock Ups! Mock Ups!


----------



## Yellowdrive

Hoping for a little osmosis-action...


----------



## 66Cooper

If I get back to my house and the wife and kids allow it, I'll see what I can do


----------



## Yellowdrive

66Cooper said:


> If I get back to my house and the wife and kids allow it, I'll see what I can do


Just calmly explain that the internet needs you right now...


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> Here 287 and 193


I'm liking the darker combination of 287 and 193. This combo gets my vote.


----------



## MHe225

Those are big and bold colors .... very fitting indeed :-d









The nuances (293 vs. 287, 200 vs. 193) are lost on me - guess I inherited some of my Dad's colorblindness :-(
So after just having disqualified myself to participate in this discussion, can I still ask whether "we" are no longer considering / supporting much darker shades of blue and red as seen here in this vintage Dutch flag?


----------



## Elf1962

All those reds look pretty pale to me. It could be by monitor but that Dutch flag looks nice and rich.


----------



## Pentameter

66Cooper said:


> My Pantone book is at the office but I'm going to say that there is a filter for sure...like all his pic seem to have. I'll have to wait till Tuesday to see which I like nest


yeah that was pretty silly of them to ask for feedback on colors using a picture with an extremely washed-out filter on it.


----------



## 66Cooper

I'm pretty sure that they were asking it as more of general question not to base it on that picture. Like, if you know of a PMS color that you prefer, let us know.


----------



## Aceldama

Love it! 293 and 200...


----------



## timeturner7

293/200 for me. They just kind of pop.


----------



## STEELINOX

[Edited for content]

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Jfha1210

I would like Old Glory Blue (282C) and Old Glory Red (193C) as in the US flag...


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## cybercat

MHe225 said:


> (snip) can I still ask whether "we" are no longer considering / supporting much darker shades of blue and red as seen here in this vintage Dutch flag?
> 
> View attachment 5251786


Yes, having been lucky enough to see & experience a few 50's GMTs - Midnight Blue and almost a deep Burgundy Red, where the 'Pepsi' is _almost_ as dark as the 'Coke" - I'd far prefer the colours to be a similar deeper, darker hue, adding more gravitas and class, rather than the bright 'clown' red & blue of later years (...& copied by everyone else).


----------



## 66Cooper

I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Arthur

Absolutely, I agree 100%. Every GMT homage uses "fire engine Red" and bright blue. The old Rolex 6542's and the first 1675's were a different color, although it didn't take Rolex long to "brighten up" the inserts. 
Here is my Ocean7 GMT, it has a sapphire bezel insert, and the colors are pretty similar to the old Rolex colors.
I changed the hands on this one, as I wasn't happy with the sword hands.the guy who did the modding suggested painting the GMT hand red. I told him just outline the triangle tip in red, obviously, he ignored my request!!








r









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

I am totally in agreement with you guys that advocate the deeper, darker and richer colors. :-!

:think: The new, bright reds and blues on some watches, look garish and cartoonish to me....

 C3 Lume! (+1) ;-)

--- Best ---

|>|>


----------



## TheDude

There are tons of shades and variations. If Bill does aluminum like he originally planned, I'm partial to the shade on the left...










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## dwg

I also agree about colors with less pop to make the watch more low key and versatile. But not to the point, where the bezel would look like artifically aged/faded.

I'm not sure about 193 red (there is lot of green in it) - the red could be more rich.

I think that Tudor Black Bay red has amazing shade. 














this looks also great:


----------



## dwg

TheDude: the left one is amazing, but it may be tricky to match the look of a fading bezel, where you almost see the metal through the paint.


----------



## Arthur

As aluminum inserts go, I like the faded aged ones, but it's very difficult to achieve that look by artificially aging. Here is my 16750 from 1986. AFAIK. This is the original insert.
My thoughts on inserts are, if the insert is going to be sapphire,Lexan or some material to emulate the old Bakelite inserts on the 6542's then I prefer the darker blue and almost burgundy red. If the insert is aluminum, then I would prefer something close to the colors of my 16750.


















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

dwg said:


> TheDude: the left one is amazing, but it may be tricky to match the look of a fading bezel, where you almost see the metal through the paint.


I think if you keep it almost like an anodized finish it would work.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Elf1962

And just when Bill may have thought he had the caseback nailed down now comes the bezel color debate.......
Perhaps that's why I buy (and enjoy) my watches rather than design and build them......
Thanks Bill!!


----------



## STEELINOX

Elf1962 said:


> And just when Bill may have thought he had the caseback nailed down now comes the bezel color debate.......
> Perhaps that's why I buy (and enjoy) my watches rather than design and build them......
> Thanks Bill!!


"Oh man... Don't hit me with those negative waves so early in the morning!...."






Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Elf1962

STEELINOX said:


> "Oh man... Don't hit me with those negative waves so early in the morning!...."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Was not my intention, just a respectful observation of all the hard work done by Bill and all the contributors.


----------



## STEELINOX

Elf1962 said:


> Was not my intention, just a respectful observation of all the hard work done by Bill and all the contributors.


The vid is a litl jab at the irony of a journey long in the making and the seeming inexplicable desire to have instant gratification; a constant in today's society, hence why you buy the watches and have no desire to take such an undertaking as MIIK's Bill Yao, to which we laud his efforts and tenacity...

Thanks,
Randy

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Packleader

STEELINOX said:


> "Oh man... Don't hit me with those negative waves so early in the morning!...."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


I knew before I clicked the link that I would be treated to some Kelly's Heroes.

Best,
Packleader


----------



## Chromejob

Thank you for the morning laugh....

I feel like a 6542 black gift dial,framed in a bezel with 1675 (or later) bezel colors will shine like a diamond encrusted dog pile. Talk about missing the mark by a mile. 

My two cents.....


----------



## Aceldama

STEELINOX said:


> "Oh man... Don't hit me with those negative waves so early in the morning!...."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Knock it off with them negative waves, man...


----------



## Flip.willy

Unfortunately, on the wait list hoping for a spot, but love the steelinox case back and also agree on the more muted colors- Tudor burgundy red and dark blue. First time posting, felt compelled to add my votes here in the hopes I can actually get my hands on one of these...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Uly

I am also hoping for darker shades of blue and red. The brighter shades on an aluminum bezel do not quite mesh in my mind with the vintage design cues. I was hoping to go for gilt, but I can't imagine it would compliment these colors. Too much competition.


----------



## powerband

Let's go nuts!










Just kidding.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

Just food for thought (and eyes).

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/30/travel/american-airlines-posters.html

























Is no secret that I love the Super Connie....


----------



## STEELINOX

Chromejob said:


> Just food for thought (and eyes).
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/30/travel/american-airlines-posters.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is no secret that I love the Super Connie....


One of my favs too !

There is nothing in the sky with the lines this aircraft has...


----------



## timeturner7

Update: Bill looking at pantone 281 or 288 for Blue on the bezel.


__
http://instagr.am/p/7qJf4kK-fv/

I personally think 288 would look better as it looks like 281 (while a nice deep blue would look good) is now getting very dark and may be somewhat close to the coke bezel.


----------



## White Tuna

timeturner7 said:


> Update: Bill looking at pantone 281 or 288 for Blue on the bezel.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/7qJf4kK-fv/
> 
> I personally think 288 would look better as it looks like 281 (while a nice deep blue would look good) is now getting very dark and may be somewhat close to the coke bezel.


Thank you for posting. I would actually like 281 or possibly a little darker.


----------



## Calibrel

281 is just right for me. IMO, it's still blue enough not to be seen as black, and it seems closer to the original GMT Master. 

But 288 is still way better from the previous lighter blues.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: I would like a blue-black....or is it black-blue? The darker the better, please.... :-!

Something that would appear to be dark blue under intense light or daylight, but almost black under fading or dim light. 

It is all about contrast....


----------



## POR901

I'm sure we'll all be happy with Bill's final decision......but IMO the darker the better. The darker colors are more subtle and classic.


----------



## Thieuster

For a moment I thought that Bill had posted a mockup of the KW... 
Oh well, this is a gorgeous watch as well! I hope that the KW will have this look and feel

Menno


----------



## Dutchman72

I'm leaning towards 288 myself.


----------



## 66Cooper

I was thinking something like this


----------



## 66Cooper

Dont mine the Sub bezel. Didnt have time to do a GMT version. Also, I would be happy with an even deeper blue to be honest.


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> Dont mine the Sub bezel. Didnt have time to do a GMT version. Also, I would be happy with an even deeper blue to be honest.


I like the color combo, but with regards to "blue" = I think this is as far as I would go dark wise, I mean common, any darker, and you lose any contrast; mays well go "black"...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> I like the color combo, but with regards to "blue" = I think this is as far as I would go dark wise, I mean common, any darker, and you lose any contrast; mays well go "black"...
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


No, because you will notice the difference between black and blue when you wear it next to certain colors. I actually find blue to be more versatile.


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> I was thinking something like this
> View attachment 5377002


Very nice. Too bad we couldn't use the globe. The globe with KEY WEST is just about what I would do if it comes with a sterile Caseback. 
The bezel colors are good, I like the darker colors, both blue and red.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Oh yeah, the case back was a leftover design I did for bill awhile back. Obviously it's way over the top, PanAm style. It was in the file so I left it. Not trying to stir the pot with it


----------



## TheMeasure

I wouldn't want the blue to get too dark either. I like the colors Rolex chose for the 116719 BLRO. Feel that they're pretty close to what the 6542s would have been when they were issued. Great shots of the bezel color here:
Return of the Pepsi Bezel








(pic from the web)


----------



## Calibrel

Personally, I like the colors of the original 6542 best. Those deep colors will really make the gilt dial pop.


----------



## Pentameter

66Cooper said:


> Oh yeah, the case back was a leftover design I did for bill awhile back. Obviously it's way over the top, PanAm style. It was in the file so I left it. Not trying to stir the pot with it


No! By all means, STIR!!!!!


----------



## dwg

I hope Bill makes few different samples first. It's hard to judge the colors without seing them on aluminium.


----------



## timeturner7

dwg said:


> I hope Bill makes few different samples first. It's hard to judge the colors without seing them on aluminium.


Completely agree. Cerachrom and the bake lite bezels both play very differently in light, as well as the difference of aluminium.


----------



## Flip.willy

Mkii newbie. Got my spot and very excited. Wish I could order two, but since I can't swing it, I'll spend the next however many months tossing and turning, debating color combos. It's starting to make me a little crazy, everywhere I look I see different patterns of blue and red. I started out preferring the coke bezel because it felt more understated, but all these beautiful reds and blues! It's late in the game and there are already too many hard choices, but any chance the surprise around the bezels could be a solid color option, ie all black, all blue or all red? Doubt it, but would be great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

Huh.


----------



## Pentameter

Flip.willy said:


> &#8230;any chance the surprise around the bezels could be a solid color option, ie all black, all blue or all red? Doubt it, but would be great.


No chance.


----------



## powerband

Flip.willy said:


> Mkii newbie. Got my spot and very excited. Wish I could order two, but since I can't swing it, I'll spend the next however many months tossing and turning, debating color combos. It's starting to make me a little crazy, everywhere I look I see different patterns of blue and red. I started out preferring the coke bezel because it felt more understated, but all these beautiful reds and blues! It's late in the game and there are already too many hard choices, but any chance the surprise around the bezels could be a solid color option, ie all black, all blue or all red? Doubt it, but would be great.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Welcome! Congrats on a spot. The wait is hard (but be thankful you haven't waited 3 years), but the bezel-color choices are limited, so you should get some sleep. :-!


----------



## TheDude

Remember people... If you don't have a calibrated monitor, you're not seeing the actual color or luminance correctly. You're opining and guiding based on bad data. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

powerband said:


> Welcome! Congrats on a spot. The wait is hard (but be thankful you haven't waited 3 years), but the bezel-color choices are limited, so you should get some sleep. :-!


Hah. 3? In January it will be 4 since plank deposits. I tried to give Bill a check a year prior to that...

Not complaining, just adjusting for accuracy. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> Hah. 3? In January it will be 4 since plank deposits.


That settles it! plank holders will need to be shipped before January!


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> That settles it! plank holders will need to be shipped before January!


I agree. This would make a really nice Christmas present to me!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric90

Wishful thinking...








Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


----------



## MHe225

BigHaole said:


> That settles it! plank holders will need to be shipped before January!
> 
> 
> TheDude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hah. 3? In January it will be 4 since plank deposits ....
Click to expand...

Well, if we go that route .... P300 Plank Holders paid deposits in spring of 2010 .... March 16, 2010 in my case; that's 2015 days ago - hmmm, nice number. When the wait started to turn longish, I was hoping to see the watch 1960 days post deposit. The date has come and passed.

Like The other Dude, I'm not complaining, just saying. The watches are ready when they are and will ship soon after that. I have time .....


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Patience is a virtue....;-)







Project 300













2)_ 'Key West' _













Sting Ray II - Tornek-Rayville II







Fulcrum!

etc. etc. etc. :-d

|>|>


----------



## Zweig

Fuchsia/light blue and my 16710 pepsi could retire prematurely...


----------



## powerband

TheDude said:


> Hah. 3? In January it will be 4 since plank deposits. I tried to give Bill a check a year prior to that...
> 
> Not complaining, just adjusting for accuracy.


Yeah, I just chose a number. 
I knew it was some crazy long wait.


----------



## powerband

BigHaole said:


> That settles it! plank holders will need to be shipped before January!


I do agree! Plank holders deserve a nice Christmas present.


----------



## Thevenin

I assume bezel insert designs are out to vendor and in production by now 

Also wondering the decision with the case backs 

An update would be nice before September ends :-d


----------



## 66Cooper

I dont think they are actually as Bill was still looking into colors. I havent heard back from him on the colors I suggested so maybe he has bad some more pix


----------



## Aceldama

Don't forget getting a sample made, then approving that...

People get really hung up on the time lines, but this is because unlike most large companies, we are privy to the process. Companies spend years designing, prototyping and manufacturing, but the only step of the process most of us see is the unveiling of the product...


----------



## e dantes

I prefer the burgundy and midnight blue for the bezel insert. I could say that like cybercat, this is because of the tie to the '50s GMTs. The truth is I just like the colors better. (Now that I have been lucky enough to place my order, I feel I can put in my two cents worth.) 

That being said, I appreciate all the input everyone has put into this thread for years. It is great to see people who are so knowledgable and artistic help shape this watch. 

The 707 on approach to the island looks good to me. Seeing the original drawing quickly made into a polished design was impressive to someone who has had his stick people drawings confused with trees.


----------



## gwold

Awesome new blog post from Bill!

http://www.mkiiwatches.com/2015/10/2015-10-02-project-gmt-update/

Case back design done, bezel colors chosen, and more!


----------



## Jellytime

Hmmm. I wonder what case back Bill is going to use


----------



## Chromejob

Jellytime said:


> Hmmm. I wonder what case back Bill is going to use


And why Bill's sweating the detail of the bezel insert fit. His usual fanatical attention to detail and quality, or....

Please, all, do not start speculating and fuel false rumors. We only know what the man tells us. Period.


----------



## Jellytime

I wasn't speculating. I was wondering which one he is going to use. He noted he is going to reveal it next week. Go look up the word speculate before you use it wrong again.


----------



## Chromejob

Jellytime said:


> I wasn't speculating. I was wondering which one he is going to use. He noted he is going to reveal it next week. Go look up the word speculate before you use it wrong again.


I wasn't accusing YOU of speculating at all. I mentioned his comment about the bezel insert,then hoped to discourage the usual daydreaming about a see through bezel that newbies take as a real option.

Go... oh, never mind.


----------



## BigHaole

Chromejob said:


> ...I mentioned his comment about the...see through bezel....


SEE THROUGH BEZEL!!! Yes!

;-)


----------



## gwold

BigHaole said:


> SEE THROUGH BEZEL!!! Yes!
> 
> ;-)


----------



## 66Cooper

Hahah. Yes, it will be very interested to see what it all ends up looking like. Either way, I'm excited and it will be glued to my wrist;-)


----------



## Arthur

Whatever results, it will be good. Some folks may be a little disappointed if it's not exactly like they wanted, but overall it will be a great watch and one we can be proud to wear. 
We have all had out thoughts and ideas about this watch, some of the ideas have been really, really good, but may not be included in the final result, for various and sundry reasons. One of these may well be the Bakelite insert homage. I remember back a few years ago when Bill offered the sapphire insert as and option on the Stingray. It was a beautiful addition, but the rejection rate of inserts was very high. I'm not sure who bore the cost of the reject inserts, but in the best case, it slowed down production, and I'm sure was very frustrating for Bill. 

We can call what we have been doing for the past couple of years speculating, dreaming, wishful thinking, forum chatter or whatever, but in the end, it will be what it will be. Hopefully, in the next couple of months, we will see photos of the various components and possibly a finished watch.Then and only then will we know whether all, part or none of our dreams have come true. I'm pretty sure that the Key West will satisfy the vast majority of folks who have bought the watch, and for those that it just doesn't resonate with, there will be a long line of eager buyers clamoring to take it off your hands.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Well put.


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> Whatever results, it will be good. Some folks may be a little disappointed if it's not exactly like they wanted, but overall it will be a great watch and one we can be proud to wear.
> We have all had out thoughts and ideas about this watch, some of the ideas have been really, really good, but may not be included in the final result, for various and sundry reasons. One of these may well be the Bakelite insert homage. I remember back a few years ago when Bill offered the sapphire insert as and option on the Stingray. It was a beautiful addition, but the rejection rate of inserts was very high. I'm not sure who bore the cost of the reject inserts, but in the best case, it slowed down production, and I'm sure was very frustrating for Bill.
> 
> We can call what we have been doing for the past couple of years speculating, dreaming, wishful thinking, forum chatter or whatever, but in the end, it will be what it will be. Hopefully, in the next couple of months, we will see photos of the various components and possibly a finished watch.Then and only then will we know whether all, part or none of our dreams have come true. I'm pretty sure that the Key West will satisfy the vast majority of folks who have bought the watch, and for those that it just doesn't resonate with, there will be a long line of eager buyers clamoring to take it off your hands.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes, this...

For now its a pretty nice dream ~ soon a reality !

Randy


----------



## timeturner7

I am dying for an update. Bill said he would post details on the caseback engraving this week. Only a few days left in the week!!!!!!!!


----------



## BigHaole

timeturner7 said:


> I am dying for an update. Bill said he would post details on the caseback engraving this week. Only a few days left in the week!!!!!!!!


Remember...time moves slower in the MKII zone. It's a quantum thing.


----------



## STEELINOX

I just saw my watch !


----------



## timeturner7

A couple of updates posted by Bill today ("bak to the bench" and update on project 300).
I keep hitting refresh in anticipation of a Project GMT update............


----------



## JFingers

STEELINOX said:


> I just saw my watch !
> 
> View attachment 5611265


Could be mine... Can't tell without the Pepsi bezel...


----------



## STEELINOX

JFingers said:


> Could be mine... Can't tell without the Pepsi bezel...


Oh man, and I bet your'a "Plankholder," right ?


----------



## JFingers

STEELINOX said:


> Oh man, and I bet your'a "Plankholder," right ?


No, unfortunately not, so I guess it's up for grabs! Dibs.


----------



## STEELINOX

JFingers said:


> No, unfortunately not, so I guess it's up for grabs! Dibs.


 Here is another angle...


----------



## JFingers

STEELINOX said:


> Here is another angle...
> 
> View attachment 5624857


It definitely looks like C3 to me. And it looks fantastic.


----------



## Plat0

STEELINOX said:


> Here is another angle...
> 
> View attachment 5624857


Too yellow for my taste... I don't think I'll be too fond of the white dial with gilt after all. Bummer.


----------



## 66Cooper

I wouldn't go on a pic like that for anything other then something fun to look at. Bill usually applies filters to these type of photos.


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> I wouldn't go on a pic like that for anything other then something fun to look at. Bill usually applies filters to these type of photos.


I agree, also the lighting will greatly affect color. When they are assembled, and we get good well lighted photos of the dial "under glass" would be a better time to make a dial decision.

Personally, I like the white dial, and I'm about 99.9% sure I will go with that version.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JPMIA

STEELINOX said:


> Here is another angle...
> 
> View attachment 5624857


I know that Chromejob mentioned a see through bezel, but I did not expect it to be "SO"
see through!!! :-d


----------



## timevoid

when i see the pictures in mkiiprojectgmt | Search Instagram â€¢ Tofo.me: Instagram Online Viewer (Pinsta.me) im realy split what dial color to pick. The obvious choice would be the white dial with gilt minute markers but a black dial with gilt really pops out a lot more.

Ofc in low light the pure white minute markers will pop out the most, and what i think look to "modern".

Here is a nice written article and the minute markers has faded to something similar to Gray/black and pops out from the white.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/Albino-GMT-Master-6542


----------



## STEELINOX

timevoid said:


> when i see the pictures in mkiiprojectgmt | Search Instagram • Tofo.me: Instagram Online Viewer (Pinsta.me) im realy split what dial color to pick. The obvious choice would be the white dial with gilt minute markers but a black dial with gilt really pops out a lot more.
> 
> Ofc in low light the pure white minute markers will pop out the most, and what i think look to "modern".
> 
> Here is a nice written article and the minute markers has faded to something similar to Gray/black and pops out from the white.
> https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/Albino-GMT-Master-6542
> 
> View attachment 5632929
> 
> 
> View attachment 5632953


The gold on white just looks so clean and rich - I am sold and have no reservation about it...

Randy

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## timeturner7

So I am wondering how many people will go with a non-gilt black dial?
And that begs the question of what availability of dials will be when we choose (or get to choose depending on our position in the ordering line??????).

I for one love the white gilt and black gilt (previous pics of the kingston look spectacular).

Tough decision!!


----------



## Aceldama

Think you have to have rank your options: 1) White gilt, 2) Black gilt, 3) Matte. 

Hope I don't have to make a Coke vs. Pepsi call. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Maybe we all won't have to worry much about that... If the blue is dark enough


----------



## e dantes

The non-gilt black dial looks good to me. While the black gilt dial is stunning, the understated non-gilt dial is calling to me. Of course the white gilt dial is also wooing me. My priorities will probably change every day until I get the email saying it time to choose.


----------



## 66Cooper

Let me just say, the gilt is something to behold. So rare and so amazing in these modern days.


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> Let me just say, the gilt is something to behold. So rare and so amazing in these modern days.


You bet...

The extant of my "gilt" experience is only having ogled a few ROLEX vintage pieces...

I am looking forward to this "modern" iteration of a classic as a daily wearer...

Randy

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## e dantes

66Cooper said:


> Let me just say, the gilt is something to behold. So rare and so amazing in these modern days.


I have not had the privilege of seeing any MK II watches in person. Everyone who has seen the gilt Kingstons have raved. If there are any gilt owners coming through Flagstaff, I will buy you a coffee or beer to let me see one in person.


----------



## Arthur

If the Gilt dial on the Key West is anything like the gilt Kingston, it will be a sight to behold!! The only comparison that comes close are the old gilt Rolex dials, and it's hard to compare those, because most of the gilt Rolex dials are 30-40 years old, and while they are beautiful,Netherlands ones that I have seen are showing the signs of wear and fading that you would expect from a dial that old. 
When you move the Kingston around in good lighting, that dial as beautiful as anything I have seen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> If the Gilt dial on the Key West is anything like the gilt Kingston, it will be a sight to behold!! The only comparison that comes close are the old gilt Rolex dials, and it's hard to compare those, because most of the gilt Rolex dials are 30-40 years old, and while they are beautiful,Netherlands ones that I have seen are showing the signs of wear and fading that you would expect from a dial that old.
> When you move the Kingston around in good lighting, that dial as beautiful as anything I have seen.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


And in white too !








Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Chromejob

66Cooper said:


> Let me just say, the gilt is something to behold. So rare and so amazing in these modern days.


Wearing my Kingston the other day, I noticed someone kept glancing at my wrist. I realized the gilt must've been glittering. (blush)


----------



## STEELINOX

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## timeturner7

Chromejob said:


> Wearing my Kingston the other day, I noticed someone kept glancing at my wrist. I realized the gilt must've been glittering. (blush)


I still haven't seen one in person. Which is why I simply cannot wait for my Key West!!!!
It's pictures like these that make me lose my mind:
https://www.google.com/search?q=mki...ch&q=mkii+kingston+gilt&imgrc=pUn5QmnAZQxRxM:


----------



## White Tuna

STEELINOX said:


> View attachment 5680042
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


That is an incredibly ugly pen. May I suggest a Maxmadco Bolt Action Retractable Pen, the official unofficial pen of the WUS MKII forums.


----------



## 66Cooper

Haha!!! Allow me to second that suggestion. Hell, the Maxmadco should be an optional extra in the MKII watch box


----------



## STEELINOX

White Tuna said:


> That is an incredibly ugly pen. May I suggest a Maxmadco Bolt Action Retractable Pen, the official unofficial pen of the WUS MKII forums.
> 
> View attachment 5680194


Are you giving away a

Maxmadco Bolt Action Retractable Pen?









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Plat0

White Tuna said:


> That is an incredibly ugly pen. May I suggest a Maxmadco Bolt Action Retractable Pen, the official unofficial pen of the WUS MKII forums.
> 
> View attachment 5680194


A pen so awesome that I have 4: 2 stainless, 1 bronze and one aluminum. I really wish I got that Damascus one.


----------



## STEELINOX

Plat0 said:


> A pen so awesome that I have 4: 2 stainless, 1 bronze and one aluminum. I really wish I got that Damascus one.


Maybe we should have a Giveaway for a "Damascus"! :thinkin:

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## heebs

66Cooper said:


> Haha!!! Allow me to second that suggestion. Hell, the Maxmadco should be an optional extra in the MKII watch box


Or at least a cutout in the foam for one. I noticed in an old IG post of Bill's that he had one tucked in his apron pocket too.



Not MkII, but maxmadco content:


----------



## poisonwazthecure

I got selected for preorder! So later on there will be a survey to choose options?


----------



## timeturner7

poisonwazthecure said:


> I got selected for preorder! So later on there will be a survey to choose options?


Congratulations!! 
You will get the opportunity to select bezel (pepsi or coke) and dial (gilt white, gilt black or non-gilt black) later in the process when watches are being built.


----------



## Packleader

I'm tempted to buy one of the titanium bolt action retractable pens. 

But if I buy it, I want to make sure that I will actually use it. Thanks to one of the threads in the pen subforum a couple years back, I ended up buying a Visconti bronze lava pen. I've never used it. It just sits in its box on my shelf, being quietly awesome.

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## Calibrel

I've never heard of the Maxmadco, but I have one similar.

The brass Karas Kustoms Bolt. It definitely seconds as a paperweight. Love it.


----------



## BigHaole

Calibrel said:


> I've never heard of the Maxmadco, but I have one similar.
> 
> The brass Karas Kustoms Bolt. It definitely seconds as a paperweight. Love it.


Calibrel, I was going to post about Karas Kustoms, but you beat me to it. i don't own one (yet), but I have read nothing be goodness about all the Karas Kustom pens.


----------



## Calibrel

BigHaole said:


> Calibrel, I was going to post about Karas Kustoms, but you beat me to it. i don't own one (yet), but I have read nothing be goodness about all the Karas Kustom pens.


If you're gonna get one allow me to make some suggestions? Since they're all "raw" machined metal, the only one I'd avoid completely is the copper one. It oxidizes way too quickly and unevenly, especially if it's actually going to be in your hand all the time.

I'm also butter fingers and constantly forget when I leave something in my lap in the car, so my Bolt has taken quite a few dives onto unpleasant surfaces. If you're the same way, copper and concrete abuse don't go very well together. It'll gouge very easily from it's own weight.

I got brass since I think it looks the nicest (matter of opinion), would take far better abuse over aluminum, and get a decent petina but not as bad as copper. If you don't like heavy pens though, aluminum might be for you.

Every few months I throw mine in a collet on the lathe and give it a quick once over with scotch bright to smooth out the dings. Easily done at home with a drill motor. (If you're anal like me with certain things)


----------



## BigHaole

Thanks for the Karas Kustoms advice. The copper looks so good, when brand new, I could have easily gone in that direction, so a timely heads-up. I'm curious to see what their new EDK model looks like.


----------



## bbuckbbuck

I finally received an coupon code for the GMT, and I was all set to pull the trigger, but then I read on the MKII website that it's 14.5mm thick?!?! Whaaahh?? 

That's like as thick as a marinemaster 300. That's crazy thick for a 39mm watch. Does anyone know why Bill designed it so thick? Or is that the only way he could source the parts. I'm also often confused at how thick Armida makes their similar cases. I can't do such thick watches. And it doesn't seem like there is a need for it. Any insight?


----------



## heebs

bbuckbbuck said:


> I finally received an coupon code for the GMT, and I was all set to pull the trigger, but then I read on the MKII website that it's 14.5mm thick?!?! Whaaahh??
> 
> That's like as thick as a marinemaster 300. That's crazy thick for a 39mm watch. Does anyone know why Bill designed it so thick? Or is that the only way he could source the parts. I'm also often confused at how thick Armida makes their similar cases. I can't do such thick watches. And it doesn't seem like there is a need for it. Any insight?


Domed crystal adds to the height. The case itself is reasonably thin and very well proportioned.


----------



## 66Cooper

The Kingston not a thick watch for a diver. They have a wonderful classic look and feel to them. Much more delicate then, say a Tudor BB or a new sub. As above, the dome adds to the overall height but not the the overall feel of the watch.


----------



## JamesJackson

Just placed my deposit, now the real waiting begins!


----------



## Aceldama

bbuckbbuck said:


> I finally received an coupon code for the GMT, and I was all set to pull the trigger, but then I read on the MKII website that it's 14.5mm thick?!?! Whaaahh??
> 
> That's like as thick as a marinemaster 300. That's crazy thick for a 39mm watch. Does anyone know why Bill designed it so thick? Or is that the only way he could source the parts. I'm also often confused at how thick Armida makes their similar cases. I can't do such thick watches. And it doesn't seem like there is a need for it. Any insight?


I'm sure there are a few people who would gladly take that spot you took up...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bbuckbbuck

66Cooper said:


> *The Kingston not a thick watch for a diver.* They have a wonderful classic look and feel to them. Much more delicate then, say a Tudor BB or a new sub. As above, the dome adds to the overall height but not the the overall feel of the watch.


MKII lists the GMT and the Kingston at the same thickness: 14.5mm. Why do you say that's "not a thick diver" when the Black Bay is only 12.8mm and the submariner smaller than that? I understand that the MKII might weigh less than those, and carry a smaller wrist presence (on account of smaller respective diameter), but it follows that the MKII will indeed be an objectively thick dive watch (again, on par with the MarineMaster which is just too much to wear).

What I'm wondering is why it's so thick. Is the water resistance of the GMT supposed to be the same as the GMT? I'm just having a hard time believing that the crystal is going to add so much height. Does the Kingston have the same domed crystal as the GMT will? Or will the GMT included an even more domed crystal?


----------



## Aceldama

Ha! Nearly had a heart attack when I got an MKII email today about my order preparing for shipment!?!

Ended up being a Nassau end link....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mrklabb

bbuckbbuck said:


> MKII lists the GMT and the Kingston at the same thickness: 14.5mm. Why do you say that's "not a thick diver" when the Black Bay is only 12.8mm and the submariner smaller than that? I understand that the MKII might weigh less than those, and carry a smaller wrist presence (on account of smaller respective diameter), but it follows that the MKII will indeed be an objectively thick dive watch (again, on par with the MarineMaster which is just too much to wear).
> 
> What I'm wondering is why it's so thick. Is the water resistance of the GMT supposed to be the same as the GMT? I'm just having a hard time believing that the crystal is going to add so much height. Does the Kingston have the same domed crystal as the GMT will? Or will the GMT included an even more domed crystal?


http://www.watchesbysjx.com/2012/09/face-off-tudor-black-bay-vs-mk-ii.html

You can see which one is better proportioned for your taste.


----------



## fastfras

Note to MKII: I really like 14.5mm thick GMT's... On the waiting list... Please...


----------



## mlb212

bbuckbbuck said:


> I finally received an coupon code for the GMT, and I was all set to pull the trigger, but then I read on the MKII website that it's 14.5mm thick?!?! Whaaahh??
> 
> That's like as thick as a marinemaster 300. That's crazy thick for a 39mm watch. Does anyone know why Bill designed it so thick? Or is that the only way he could source the parts. I'm also often confused at how thick Armida makes their similar cases. I can't do such thick watches. And it doesn't seem like there is a need for it. Any insight?


Right? Its definitely not a watch you want. You should cancel.


----------



## poisonwazthecure

poisonwazthecure said:


> I got selected for preorder! So later on there will be a survey to choose options?


Placed my preorder so its official now. 

When the time comes, I'm in for a pepsi and back gilt dial.


----------



## Fyrdoc

I'm all in. Black gilt and Pepsi bezel. Too cool.


----------



## 66Cooper

Haha!!
Look, sometimes numbers are meaningless. I've worn all the mentioned watches and the Kingston wears much smaller and slimmer. Not nearly as delicate as the original 6538 but I think that's a good thing. It's a wonderful modern interpretation of a classic.


----------



## STEELINOX

Fyrdoc said:


> I'm all in. Black gilt and Pepsi bezel. Too cool.







Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Calibrel

BigHaole said:


> Thanks for the Karas Kustoms advice. The copper looks so good, when brand new, I could have easily gone in that direction, so a timely heads-up. I'm curious to see what their new EDK model looks like.


No problem. Also, the standard Bolt is pretty long, the G2 even more so.

EDK looks to be a shortened grooved and media blasted version of the Retrakt


----------



## JamesJackson

I've been away from the forum for a while and since I just got selected in the October round for a preorder I've started following the GMT development again. My question is will the bezel insert be aluminum or will there be an option for a lumed bezel, like was discussed at one time?

Thanks,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

JamesJackson said:


> I've been away from the forum for a while and since I just got selected in the October round for a preorder I've started following the GMT development again. My question is will the bezel insert be aluminum or will there be an option for a lumed bezel, like was discussed at one time?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


James., at this point I don't think anyone but Bill knows that answer, however from all the previous discussions, it looks like it will be and aluminum insert. Although I believe that a sapphire lexan or some other lumed material that mimics the old bakelite would be very, very popular It doesn't look like it's going to happen. If it did. it would be a wonderful surprise for most of us.


----------



## Fyrdoc

STEELINOX said:


> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Huh?!?


----------



## canadiandiverman

I just hope he finishes these gmt's soon so he can get back to work on the 300 and second batch of the fulcrum!


----------



## curt941

Is it just me, or does the bezel look deep, as if it is built to support more than a standard aluminum insert?


----------



## 66Cooper

Oh boy. I'm going to pretend I didint just read that so as to not get my hopes up


----------



## Arthur

curt941 said:


> Is it just me, or does the bezel look deep, as if it is built to support more than a standard aluminum insert?


Curt, good catch. It does look deeper than the bezel on most watches with aluminum inserts. Of course this is a photo, and this may just be a combination of optical illusion and wishful thinking!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JamesJackson

We all know that Chuck Yeager was photographed wearing a Big Crown Submariner. However after looking at these pictures, am I imagining that looking like GMT master bezel insert, and having a white date wheel? Could be a 6542.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Thevenin

I think it looks pretty standard for the aluminum insert. Below is how my GMT-Master looks when naked.


----------



## STEELINOX

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## gwold

Oops


----------



## gwold

STEELINOX said:


> View attachment 5732498
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


It may be the GMT case, but damned if the bezel & dial aren't from a (grrr) Nassau. I was so hopeful for an Instagram flub!


----------



## Chromejob

Welcome to Today. The Nassau is based on the Kingston, the Key West is based on both.


----------



## Thieuster

Nice! with enough room for a date bubble! Surely, that date wheel deserves all the attention it can get!

Menno


----------



## aviate

Thieuster said:


> Nice! with enough room for a date bubble! Surely, that date wheel deserves all the attention it can get!
> 
> Menno


Date bubble?


----------



## STEELINOX

aviate said:


> Date bubble?


Err, "pop," go th bubble !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Arthur

I believe he was referring to a cyclops. Something that a fair number of folks would like to see. Maybe just us old guys who need the extra date mag!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Old guys?? Who wouldn't want to see that amazing roulette wheel? 

I'm thinking, as a group, we should be sourcing a Cyclops and the best quality jubilee bracelet for the upcoming release.


----------



## Metropolitan

66Cooper said:


> Old guys?? Who wouldn't want to see that amazing roulette wheel?
> 
> I'm thinking, as a group, we should be sourcing a Cyclops and the best quality jubilee bracelet for the upcoming release.


I wholeheartedly agree!


----------



## e dantes

66Cooper said:


> Old guys?? Who wouldn't want to see that amazing roulette wheel?
> 
> I'm thinking, as a group, we should be sourcing a Cyclops and the best quality jubilee bracelet for the upcoming release.


I am getting old and would also like a cyclops. It would be nice to highlight the roulette wheel. I've never had a roulette date wheel before and am looking forward to seeing it on my wrist someday.


----------



## aviate

66Cooper said:


> Old guys?? Who wouldn't want to see that amazing roulette wheel?
> 
> I'm thinking, as a group, we should be sourcing a Cyclops and the best quality jubilee bracelet for the upcoming release.


I have been asking for an option for a cyclops from the start. Personally, it would be worth a delay and I would be willing to have my order with a cyclops completed after any plank orders not requesting a cyclops. A jubilee would also be great but I do remember being told it was very unlikely (not happening) near the beginning of the process.


----------



## Darwin

Going entirely from an imperfect memory, I think I read somewhere early in this thread that a cyclops on the Key West is impractical from a quality control perspective because there are difficulties associated with affixing a magnifier to a curved sapphire crystal? Nothing stopping us from ordering a 2.5X magnifier from Ofrei and installing/having it installed ourselves, though...



aviate said:


> I have been asking for an option for a cyclops from the start. Personally, it would be worth a delay and I would be willing to have my order with a cyclops completed after any plank orders not requesting a cyclops. A jubilee would also be great but I do remember being told it was very unlikely (not happening) near the beginning of the process.


----------



## BigHaole

Darwin said:


> Going entirely from an imperfect memory, I think I read somewhere early in this thread that a cyclops on the Key West is impractical from a quality control perspective because there are difficulties associated with affixing a magnifier to a curved sapphire crystal? Nothing stopping us from ordering a 2.5X magnifier from Ofrei and installing/having it installed ourselves, though...


I was going to make the same point. I'm all for a cyclops, but if it were easy to do, I think Bill would offer it.


----------



## 66Cooper

When I was talking about the mag and jubilee I meant aftermarket. Ain't going to happen from Bill, we all know that. Let's see what's out there l, like asking Jack if he could do it


----------



## timeturner7

66Cooper said:


> When I was talking about the mag and jubilee I meant aftermarket. Ain't going to happen from Bill, we all know that. Let's see what's out there l, like asking Jack if he could do it


I'm on board for a good quality jubilee. The bracelet is one of the few flaws of the Mkii for me.


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> When I was talking about the mag and jubilee I meant aftermarket. Ain't going to happen from Bill, we all know that. Let's see what's out there l, like asking Jack if he could do it


Correct, I've pretty much resigned myself to a Crystal with no cyclops. It would be interesting to see if Jack could add a cyclops. Another possibility is the Homage forum. There are some pretty talented modders over there.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

I talk a big game but I'm sure I'd but totally happy with whatever bill finishes with and gets strapped to my wrist Going to have to have the watch in-hand first anyhow for the cyclops. 

The case is easy as most of us have Kingston or Nassau to start the bracelet selection. The homage forum might be a good place for that as well.


----------



## IdiotSavant

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

gilt gilt iglt!


----------



## dwg

timeturner7 said:


> I'm on board for a good quality jubilee. The bracelet is one of the few flaws of the Mkii for me.


I'd say it's actually one of the better bracelets out there and the rivets are cool.. The jubilee is so 60+ 

(and it would take another 5 years to design it anyway)


----------



## STEELINOX

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## Thevenin

Aaand first scratch... :-d












> ****....sometimes QC is destructive. You have to clean polished surfaces to inspect them. Despite precautions sometimes you pick up a speck of debris from the case or somewhere that creates a enormous scratch. This one ended up running the length of the case before I could stop myself. #mkiiprojectgmt


----------



## 66Cooper

This is a fine example of why we all wait so patiently for these beloved projects to be completed. No where else, does one person handle every aspect of every watch going out.


----------



## fastfras

Thevenin said:


> Aaand first scratch... :-d


That's not a scratch, it's history in the making. I'll take that one... If I ever get a lottery pic!


----------



## 66Cooper

There's a Crocodile Dundee joke in there somewhere...


----------



## STEELINOX

yeaaah Baby !


----------



## 66Cooper

Proof right there of bills dedication. That mans ALL business for sure


----------



## JamesJackson

Does anyone recall off hand the size crown that was settled on for the GMT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

JamesJackson said:


> Does anyone recall off hand the size crown that was settled on for the GMT.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:think: About the same size as the Vantage....Go to --> Project GMT: Design thread - Page 40


----------



## JamesJackson

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: About the same asize as the Vantage....Go to --> Project GMT: Design thread - Page 40


Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Thevenin

babies


----------



## STEELINOX

Thevenin said:


> babies


whiteChocolates








yeaaah Baby !


----------



## Aceldama

All white gild. All C3. That's my vote dammit.


----------



## White Tuna

Aceldama said:


> All white gild. All C3. That's my vote dammit.


Def looks like C3 to me.


----------



## White Tuna




----------



## mrklabb

Thevenin said:


> babies


http://i.imgur.com/yRO9z8n.jpg


----------



## Arthur

No doubt that is C3. Those look really nice. That made up my mind 100%. White dial for me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## timevoid

> *October 2, 2015 By admin*
> 
> 
> Case back design has been finalized. I expect to send the parts out to be engraved some time next week. I will post details about this next week.





> Thieuster
> - GMT: I think that the two lower stripes are not really necessary; perhaps a larger plane, a little lower, but still off-center
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/plank-caseback-survey-live-2303722.html


So any news of the design ? Underwhelming is one word for design samples if compared to how much efforts gone into the rest of the watch. (No grudge to the person that did the drawing).















Affordable watch "Project Spectre" really did a nice work on making sure it was a interesting case-back design, with a price of almost 1/3 of the Project GMT.

Thumbs up to:
Mrwozza
JakeJD
synaptyx
HKed
Recoil
sixtysix 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f698/caseback-design-thread-2412402.html#post20529650










Another sample how good a caseback can look. Roamer Rockshell mark 3. (picture is from the well written review d1st :https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/worl...mer-rockshell-mark-iii-far-i-know-961348.html)


----------



## White Tuna

timevoid said:


> Affordable watch "Project Spectre" really did a nice work on making sure it was a interesting case-back design, with a price of almost 1/3 of the Project GMT.


First, I am not a huge fan of the project SPECTRE case back. The rifling seems to be more of a James Bond thing than a SPECTRE thing so it is like it is wearing the jersey for its rival. Hard for me to get my head around that for some reason.

Secondly I am interested in the cost comparison of the watches based on case back. I am interested to hear more of the project SPECTRE gilt dials and the GMT movement which I am assuming is an ETA or at least Swiss.


----------



## timevoid

White Tuna said:


> First, I am not a huge fan of the project SPECTRE case back. The rifling seems to be more of a James Bond thing than a SPECTRE thing so it is like it is wearing the jersey for its rival. Hard for me to get my head around that for some reason.
> 
> Secondly I am interested in the cost comparison of the watches based on case back. I am interested to hear more of the project SPECTRE gilt dials and the GMT movement which I am assuming is an ETA or at least Swiss.


Obviously case-back design and production cost doesn't seam to correlate to the price. Tudor black bay use a Underwhelming case-back design 10 times the price of a affordable watch like Roamer Rockshell III. It seams to be a deliberate design choice to make it Underwhelming ? And it seams MK2 has gone in the same direction. What im saying is affordable options does not take away the possibility to use good looking case-back designs.


----------



## Arthur

timevoid said:


> Obviously case-back design and production cost doesn't seam to correlate to the price. Tudor black bay use a Underwhelming case-back design 10 times the price of a affordable watch like Roamer Rockshell III. It seams to be a deliberate design choice to make it Underwhelming ? And it seams MK2 has gone in the same direction. What im saying is affordable options does not take away the possibility to use good looking case-back designs.
> 
> View attachment 5859834


Certainly depends on the company, and price doesn't correlate with caseback designs. Case in point, Rolex has nothing on the caseback of any of it's watches except the SeaDweller, which has had basically the same design for 40+ years. The Tudor caseback is pretty much a continuation of what they have used for years.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't care what the caseback design is, it can be an airplane in flight, one landing on and island, or nothing at all. I very seldom look at the casebacks of my watches, no matter how ornate they may be. In fact for a watch that is used a lot and especially in dirty and dusty conditions, those ornate casebacks with lots of cracks and crevices are just grime magnets. Since I do wear my MKII's in less than ideal conditions, that may become a factor, although a very tiny one. My primary thoughts are, do whatever gets the casebacks done the quickest and with the least amount of quality control problems, the better.


----------



## Arthur

timevoid said:


> Obviously case-back design and production cost doesn't seam to correlate to the price. Tudor black bay use a Underwhelming case-back design 10 times the price of a affordable watch like Roamer Rockshell III. It seams to be a deliberate design choice to make it Underwhelming ? And it seams MK2 has gone in the same direction. What im saying is affordable options does not take away the possibility to use good looking case-back designs.
> 
> View attachment 5859834


Certainly depends on the company, and price doesn't correlate with caseback designs. Case in point, Rolex has nothing on the caseback of any of it's watches except the SeaDweller, which has had basically the same design for 40+ years. The Tudor caseback is pretty much a continuation of what they have used for years.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't care what the caseback design is, it can be an airplane in flight, one landing on and island, or nothing at all. I very seldom look at the casebacks of my watches, no matter how ornate they may be. In fact for a watch that is used a lot and especially in dirty and dusty conditions, those ornate casebacks with lots of cracks and crevices are just grime magnets. Since I do wear my MKII's in less than ideal conditions, that may become a factor, although a very tiny one. My primary thoughts are, do whatever gets the casebacks done the quickest and with the least amount of quality control problems, the better.


----------



## Pentameter

timevoid said:


> So any news of the design ?


the last news was that it isn't going to be any of the samples you posted&#8230;


----------



## mlb212

Just my two cents, I don't care about the case-back on the Key West. The Kingston style is fine with me.


----------



## Chromejob

Case back, schmase back. You wanna start comparing an apple to an orange based on the stem, and expecting price to be a correlation of that, have fun. 

That's some SPECTRE watch sporting the Bond family motto, orbis non sufficit. :-/


----------



## dwg

Arthur said:


> Certainly depends on the company, and price doesn't correlate with caseback designs. Case in point, Rolex has nothing on the caseback of any of it's watches except the SeaDweller, which has had basically the same design for 40+ years. The Tudor caseback is pretty much a continuation of what they have used for years.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, I really don't care what the caseback design is, it can be an airplane in flight, one landing on and island, or nothing at all. I very seldom look at the casebacks of my watches, no matter how ornate they may be. In fact for a watch that is used a lot and especially in dirty and dusty conditions, those ornate casebacks with lots of cracks and crevices are just grime magnets. Since I do wear my MKII's in less than ideal conditions, that may become a factor, although a very tiny one. My primary thoughts are, do whatever gets the casebacks done the quickest and with the least amount of quality control problems, the better.


I said it before - the plain caseback looks best by far. It would be sad to wait so long and end up with something amateurish or unnecessary on the caseback. If possible, I would even avoid the serial number. The only thing I'm ok with is the MIIK logo, which looks great (unlike any other homage watch logo).

edit: I guess the best way - since the case back design was promised from the beginning - would be to offer both engraving and plain caseback and let the buyer choose.


----------



## dwg

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but doesn't Bill already have the inserts? Is there a reason why not show it other than torturing us?


----------



## White Tuna

dwg said:


> I said it before - the plain caseback looks best by far. It would be sad to wait so long and end up with something amateurish or unnecessary on the caseback. If possible, I would even avoid the serial number. The only thing I'm ok with is the MIIK logo, which looks great (unlike any other homage watch logo).
> 
> edit: I guess the best way - since the case back design was promised from the beginning - would be to offer both engraving and plain caseback and let the buyer choose.


I have to say that a good case back design in and of itself would never make me buy a watch but it certainly a bade case back design could make me not buy a watch.


----------



## Darwin

He has the bezels and has finalized design on the inserts but I don't *think* he has received the inserts from the manufacturer. He'll want to QC them when he does get them and *might* post a teaser shot of himself doing so - without any giveaways of the insert in the photo! - before revealing them to us. Weeks, if not months (more likely) away, I'm sure.



dwg said:


> Correct me, if I'm wrong, but doesn't Bill already have the inserts? Is there a reason why not show it other than torturing us?


----------



## dwg

Darwin said:


> He has the bezels and has finalized design on the inserts but I don't *think* he has received the inserts from the manufacturer. He'll want to QC them when he does get them and *might* post a teaser shot of himself doing so - without any giveaways of the insert in the photo! - before revealing them to us. Weeks, if not months (more likely) away, I'm sure.


I must have mistaken bezels for inserts then.. The colors were finalized month ago - not sure, if he will recieve some samples first, or they already went into production.


----------



## Aceldama

Wonder if he's holding the bezels back for a "surprise"...


----------



## 66Cooper

I wasnt aware that the colors were finalized. At least not from the post about the PMS colors. He reached out to me about other color options and I gave him my recommendations as well as 6 "samples" I pulled from 6548 bezels in the wild...on the internet. He was also sampling colors from some printed materials he had on the 6548. By now, I am sure he has made up his mind a bit but he would have to see samples of the bezels first...and that usually takes a bit. Unless of course he just went with his initial thoughts.


----------



## Pentameter

dwg said:


> The colors were finalized month ago


I don't think that is correct.


----------



## Eric90

2015-10-02: Project GMT Update*October 2, 2015 By admin*


Case back design has been finalized. I expect to send the parts out to be engraved some time next week. I will post details about this next week.
Plankowner serial numbers: After about 8 solid hours and spreadsheet work I have the serial numbers allocated for the Plankowners. I have to figure out how to publish the numbers though and when.
Bezel insert: The design and color selection are finally completed. The artwork has been finalized. This took a lot longer than expected mostly because I kept finding details that need to be fixed. We will be releasing the artwork to the vendor next week pending the results of the test described next.
Bezel fit: We will be doing some final testing on the bezel fit for the watch. The CMM data says it should fit but we want to make sure it does before we commit to the bezel insert order. I should be taking care of this tomorrow. I have been doing prep work for the tests, off and on, all week. The testing will take place Saturday.


----------



## timeturner7

Eric90 said:


> *2015-10-02: Project GMT Update*
> 
> *October 2, 2015 By admin*
> 
> 
> Case back design has been finalized. I expect to send the parts out to be engraved some time next week. I will post details about this next week.
> Plankowner serial numbers: After about 8 solid hours and spreadsheet work I have the serial numbers allocated for the Plankowners. I have to figure out how to publish the numbers though and when.
> Bezel insert: The design and color selection are finally completed. The artwork has been finalized. This took a lot longer than expected mostly because I kept finding details that need to be fixed. We will be releasing the artwork to the vendor next week pending the results of the test described next.
> Bezel fit: We will be doing some final testing on the bezel fit for the watch. The CMM data says it should fit but we want to make sure it does before we commit to the bezel insert order. I should be taking care of this tomorrow. I have been doing prep work for the tests, off and on, all week. The testing will take place Saturday.


We never did get that update after a week on the caseback.........


----------



## timeturner7

Darwin said:


> He has the bezels and has finalized design on the inserts but I don't *think* he has received the inserts from the manufacturer. He'll want to QC them when he does get them and *might* post a teaser shot of himself doing so - without any giveaways of the insert in the photo! - before revealing them to us. Weeks, if not months (more likely) away, I'm sure.


I expect a black and white instagram upload of bezels being QC'd before Christmas (he teases us with filters to make the final product a surprise and gift to the senses). Am I still being too hopeful??


----------



## TheDude

66Cooper said:


> I wasnt aware that the colors were finalized. At least not from the post about the PMS colors. He reached out to me about other color options and I gave him my recommendations as well as 6 "samples" I pulled from 6548 bezels in the wild...on the internet. He was also sampling colors from some printed materials he had on the 6548. By now, I am sure he has made up his mind a bit but he would have to see samples of the bezels first...and that usually takes a bit. Unless of course he just went with his initial thoughts.


6542.

There's a lot of variation among the insert colors in real life and among the photos you see. Interested to know which photos you referenced.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

TheDude said:


> 6542.
> 
> There's a lot of variation among the insert colors in real life and among the photos you see. Interested to know which photos you referenced.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


You are correct, there is a lot of variation in color. It would be nice if there was a really good color photo of the insert when new. Unfortunately, back then (1950's) most of the pictures were either black and white or artist renderings. I suspect that a lot of those old Bakelite inserts have darkened with age, so probably almost impossible to tell what they really looked like new.
I don't really mind what color the insert is, however I would prefer the darker colors that were discussed, more than the red and blue of a brand new Rolex insert.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

I referenced nearly 100 photos I found online and took samples of each. That was just to give me an idea, nothing more. I then went to my Pantone book and started pouring through the rich reds and blues and came up with a few suggestions. These are truly meaningless unless you have a Pantone book in front of you but I prefer a deeper red and blue. I have no idea what Bill really prefers but he asked so I gave him my 2 cents on the topic.

Oh, and I slipped on typing the ref number in my other post. I practically have 6542 tattooed to the backside of my eyelids. haha!!


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> I referenced nearly 100 photos I found online and took samples of each. That was just to give me an idea, nothing more. I then went to my Pantone book and started pouring through the rich reds and blues and came up with a few suggestions. These are truly meaningless unless you have a Pantone book in front of you but I prefer a deeper red and blue. I have no idea what Bill really prefers but he asked so I gave him my 2 cents on the topic.
> 
> Oh, and I slipped on typing the ref number in my other post. I practically have 6542 tattooed to the backside of my eyelids. haha!!


Now, you my friend really have a vested interest in the inserts. 
AFA the 6542, they have a tendency to make you like them. Hands down my favorite vintage Rolex. Unfortunately, the fragility factor between the Bakelite insert disintegrating almost by looking hard at it, and the almost complete lack of parts for the old 1030 based movement would relegate it to "safe queen" status, even if I could afford to own one. The MKII Key West is a much more practical option.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## powerband

In checking on this thread, I feel like a groundhog climbing out of my hole from hibernation every 6 weeks only to see my shadow. Back to my hole for more hibernation.


----------



## STEELINOX




----------



## e dantes

STEELINOX said:


> View attachment 5899290


Thank you, Steelinox. I am impressed that you were able to break into the MKII secret lab and get this photo of the first production Key West! It is exactly like I imagined.


----------



## STEELINOX

e dantes said:


> Thank you, Steelinox. I am impressed that you were able to break into the MKII secret lab and get this photo of the first production Key West! It is exactly like I imagined.


I too, am impressed by my tenacity and resourcefulness to penetrate MK II security !

yeaaah Baby !


----------



## POR901

I hope Bill selected dark colors for the insert....


----------



## Metropolitan

The instagram pic of the black gilt dial doesn't make the dial choice any easier. Just like the white dial it looks wonderful. Best option: getting both.


----------



## STEELINOX

Metropolitan said:


> The instagram pic of the black gilt dial doesn't make the dial choice any easier. Just like the white dial it looks wonderful. Best option: getting both.


Ummm yes ss! 









yeaaah Baby !


----------



## Arthur

That dial looks incredible!! I would probably go for the Black/Gilt, but I already have a Rolex 16750, so my choice is still the White/Gilt


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Thieuster

New pic/info on the MKII Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatches/?ref=search posted 3 hrs ago. Oh well it's still early for US based fellow owners.

Menno


----------



## 66Cooper

Can you please post pix for those turds still out there without FB?


----------



## Thevenin

" Testing the bezel fit for the #mkiiprojectgmt and prepping the cases for cleaning. "


----------



## gwold

From Instagram


----------



## White Tuna

gwold said:


> View attachment 5980970
> 
> From Instagram


----------



## powerband

Thevenin said:


> " Testing the bezel fit for the #mkiiprojectgmt and prepping the cases for cleaning. "


That case has been polished!!!

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

No, I think it's just the intense lighting and, yet again, photo filters causing that effect.


----------



## powerband

I was being facetious. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

Haha!!


----------



## White Tuna

powerband said:


> I was being facetious.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


NOBODY LIKE A FACETIOUS!


----------



## Aceldama

powerband said:


> That case has been polished!!!
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Lugs look a little thin... ;^)


----------



## POR901

*2015-11-13: Project GMT update*

November 13, 2015 By admin 
Sorry for the long break between the updates! I thought I had posted an update in October but just found the Oct. 8th post I wrote still marked "draft" in the system.


The bezel insert order has been submitted to the vendor. It took a little longer than we expected to get to verifying that the bezels fit okay on the cases. Mostly it was paperwork getting in the way. We will report back on the expected delivery date as soon as we know. 
Case back engraving is currently in process and should be ready around the end of January 2016. 
Second batch of date wheels have arrived and are awaiting QC. 
Inspection of the dials and hands are ongoing. 
Case preparation is ongoing.


----------



## BigHaole

When do we start the pool to predict the first shipment?


----------



## powerband

POR901 said:


> Case back engraving is currently in process and should be ready around the end of January 2016.


Does anyone know if this means that the casebacks are GETTING engraving, or the caseback engraving design is being decided? Has there been a decision made on the caseback design?

Thanks...


----------



## Arthur

powerband said:


> Does anyone know if this means that the casebacks are GETTING engraving, or the caseback engraving design is being decided? Has there been a decision made on the caseback design?
> 
> Thanks...


Sounds to me like the case backs are at the engravers getting engraved.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

From Bill's post, it looks like 2015 is out. Early 2016 at the earliest. I was really hoping to have a Key West under the Christmas tree. Looks like I will have to settle for something else!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> I was really hoping to have a Key West under the Christmas tree. Looks like I will have to settle for something else!!


There's always next year's Christmas tree...


----------



## powerband

Arthur said:


> From Bill's post, it looks like 2015 is out. Early 2016 at the earliest. I was really hoping to have a Key West under the Christmas tree. Looks like I will have to settle for something else!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You can always put an early aftermarket bracelet or strap under the tree!

I was also hoping to unwrap a GMT on Christmas morning, with the Elf On The Shelf fallen off the shelf with an eggnog hangover.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> There's always next year's Christmas tree...


You are correct, however, I would really be disappointed if it took that long, given that I'm right up close to the top of the plank orders. I'm hoping by the spring, but I've been wrong before!!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tomr

Arthur said:


> You are correct, however, I would really be disappointed if it took that long, given that I'm right up close to the top of the plank orders. I'm hoping by the spring, but I've been wrong before!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I, too, am an early plank order, yet I would not be surprised if it goes 'til next Christmas. When we were asked to pay the balance last January, Bill estimated delivery to begin in the 2nd quarter of 2015. Yet here we are almost a year later and have only seen some pictures of the dials and cases. I still find it hard to believe that the delivery of the Key West has exceeded the three year timeframe of the Kingston. Patience is not just a virtue for the MKII plank customer, it is an absolute requirement.


----------



## Thieuster

I can see your point. But that has also to do with the way Bill communicates various developments. First, he has changed from his own MKII Channel here on WUS to Facebook. A wise move as long as develpments are the one after the other; short intervals. We (sometimes) complain about the waiting time, but we're MKII aficionados. Bottom line is, we don't care. And we trust the result. FB however 'shows' the 'lack of development' to everybody who isn't into MKII like we. For the outside world it looks like swimming in molasses: it looks and tastes sweet, but it takes an aweful long time to reach the finish and most do not want to give it a try...

Then the messages itself: with some reverse thinking(...) we can figure out that Bill has raised the bar for this watch and that a lot of dials etc don't meet his idea of quality. That takes extra time. But we will praise the end result. Two pics with: 'This is what I want' and 'This one failed' will add to the idea of getting a watch that's absolutely perfect.

Another point: we know that Bill has most items in his workshop now. I would like to suggest a few pics of various parts that go into one watch and a assembled watch (with all the parts that are in the house now). I can not imagine that Bill hasn't tried to assemble at least one watch!

Finally, look and feel: we see nice pics of parts on the workbench. A glimps of some details like a chamfered lug or the profile of the crystal (radius) professionally displayed would get us all excited and happy for the Holiday Season, I'm sure.

To wrap it up: it's all about the MKII details we love to see, I think. Like a movie trailer to get it warm to see the end result.

Menno


----------



## dwg

BigHaole said:


> When do we start the pool to predict the first shipment?


I'd like to hear that prediction from Bill.

He should have all parts soon hopefully, so then it's up to him. I believed in 2nd quarter of 2015, when I payed, while now it seems it could be late 2016 or even 2017 for 2nd stage pre-order.


----------



## Chromejob

Thieuster said:


> I can see your point. But that has also to do with the way Bill communicates various developments. First, he has changed from his own MKII Channel here on WUS to Facebook. A wise move as long as develpments are the one after the other; short intervals. We (sometimes) complain about the waiting time, but we're MKII aficionados. Bottom line is, we don't care. And we trust the result. FB however 'shows' the 'lack of development' to everybody who isn't into MKII like we. For the outside world it looks like swimming in molasses: it looks and tastes sweet, but it takes an aweful long time to reach the finish and most do not want to give it a try...
> 
> Then the messages itself: with some reverse thinking(...) we can figure out that Bill has raised the bar for this watch and that a lot of dials etc don't meet his idea of quality. That takes extra time. But we will praise the end result. Two pics with: 'This is what I want' and 'This one failed' will add to the idea of getting a watch that's absolutely perfect.
> 
> Another point: we know that Bill has most items in his workshop now. I would like to suggest a few pics of various parts that go into one watch and a assembled watch (with all the parts that are in the house now). I can not imagine that Bill hasn't tried to assemble at least one watch!
> 
> Finally, look and feel: we see nice pics of parts on the workbench. A glimps of some details like a chamfered lug or the profile of the crystal (radius) professionally displayed would get us all excited and happy for the Holiday Season, I'm sure.
> 
> To wrap it up: it's all about the MKII details we love to see, I think. Like a movie trailer to get it warm to see the end result.
> 
> Menno


Bill is not a tease.

Bill does not post pics of things we all already know are finalized as a rouse. Not his style at all from what I've seen.

Bill has posted pics of some of the parts together in QC, I suspect you've just forgotten.

Posting on FB vice here means nothing to me. This is a forum project, a Ltd ed, FB crowds don't have skin in the game.


----------



## Arthur

Thieuster said:


> I can see your point. But that has also to do with the way Bill communicates various developments. First, he has changed from his own MKII Channel here on WUS to Facebook. A wise move as long as develpments are the one after the other; short intervals. We (sometimes) complain about the waiting time, but we're MKII aficionados. Bottom line is, we don't care. And we trust the result. FB however 'shows' the 'lack of development' to everybody who isn't into MKII like we. For the outside world it looks like swimming in molasses: it looks and tastes sweet, but it takes an aweful long time to reach the finish and most do not want to give it a try...
> 
> Then the messages itself: with some reverse thinking(...) we can figure out that Bill has raised the bar for this watch and that a lot of dials etc don't meet his idea of quality. That takes extra time. But we will praise the end result. Two pics with: 'This is what I want' and 'This one failed' will add to the idea of getting a watch that's absolutely perfect.
> 
> Another point: we know that Bill has most items in his workshop now. I would like to suggest a few pics of various parts that go into one watch and a assembled watch (with all the parts that are in the house now). I can not imagine that Bill hasn't tried to assemble at least one watch!
> 
> Finally, look and feel: we see nice pics of parts on the workbench. A glimps of some details like a chamfered lug or the profile of the crystal (radius) professionally displayed would get us all excited and happy for the Holiday Season, I'm sure.
> 
> To wrap it up: it's all about the MKII details we love to see, I think. Like a movie trailer to get it warm to see the end result.
> 
> Menno


I agree. It would be nice to see a little more of the progress. Keeps the troops happy and the discontent level tamped down somewhat.

I'm not a big Facebook fan. The only reason I even signed up was my daughter posts all of her family photos on Facebook, so I have to go on Facebook to see what my grandkids are doing. Another thing that is alarming to me is how much personal information folks post on social media. I suppose my wife and I are old school, but we don't want our life to be and open book for all to see.

Like menno said, updates posted here are pretty much only going to be seen by the members who have a. "Skin in the game", whereas updates on Facebook are seen not only by those of us who are interested, but the curious as well. I really believe that some of the opinionated curious were the ones who started the threads a couple of weeks ago, about nothing available, can't buy a MKII, etc.

I'm sure Bill had a reason to open a Facebook page, obviously it opens up the brand to many people that would otherwise never hear about MKII, which I'm sure long term is good business. Nice that members here post links to the various social media sites when a new MKII update comes out, otherwise I would probably be in the dark most of the time!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## calwatchguy

Arthur said:


> I agree. It would be nice to see a little more of the progress. Keeps the troops happy and the discontent level tamped down somewhat.
> 
> I'm not a big Facebook fan. The only reason I even signed up was my daughter posts all of her family photos on Facebook, so I have to go on Facebook to see what my grandkids are doing. Another thing that is alarming to me is how much personal information folks post on social media. I suppose my wife and I are old school, but we don't want our life to be and open book for all to see.


Agree on all fronts regarding Facebook. Only reason I check now is for updates on MKII and halios orders.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

calwatchguy said:


> Agree on all fronts regarding Facebook. Only reason I check now is for updates on MKII and halios orders.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The time in which my colleagues could spend on professional development or reading for self-improvement is often squandered away on Facebook's meaningless soundbites and mostly irrelevant updates from so-called friends they haven't seen in over 2 decades.

Back on topic: I personally would enjoy more frequent updates with _crisp and clear_ photos of parts that are in, even if that means I have to get on Facebook every few days. I wouldn't say that this turns Bill Yao into a teaser but someone who understands his paying customers' motivation and yearning to be a more consistent part of the process. Photo updates help to preserve the excitement and possibly build new excitement for future projects.

Back to my groundhog hole for another 6 weeks.


----------



## BigHaole

tomr said:


> When we were asked to pay the balance last January, Bill estimated delivery to begin in the 2nd quarter of 2015. Yet here we are almost a year later and have only seen some pictures of the dials and cases.


Same here. I'm surprised that, after all these years, it's so hard to give reasonable estimates. But I trust what I've heard about MKII and I'm still very much looking forward to my Key West, which will be my first MKII watch.


----------



## White Tuna

I do not use Facebook at all but I do follow the pictures and mostly ignore all of the other stuff from the MKII feed. I expect first delivery beginning of June at the soonest.

I base this on the pictures I have seen, my overdeveloped sense of importance and a dartboard I use for predicting lottery numbers. I am still poor as dirt so that will tell you why in quarter one White Tuna enterprises is updating its predictive modeling hardware to Chicken 2.0. Chicken or Chicken 1.0 as we refer to it now was fairly successful until it malfunctioned.


----------



## powerband

BigHaole said:


> ... But I trust what I've heard about MKII and I'm still very much looking forward to my Key West, which will be my first MKII watch.


As an owner of several watches from MKII, including the Kingston, I can stand behind every positive thing you've heard about its watches. If past QC extends to the KW, then you'll be impressed and delighted!

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

powerband said:


> As an owner of several watches from MKII, including the Kingston, I can stand behind every positive thing you've heard about its watches. If past QC extends to the KW, then you'll be impressed and delighted!
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


I agree completely. You would be hard pressed to find another watch that has the same quality for price as MKII's I have three and my Key West will be my fourth.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

This is just my perspective based on my numerous watch-buying experience: Years ago I was into watches by a handful of boutique watchmakers. Now, I do not look at any boutique watchmaker outside of MKII. I'll stick with watchmakers like Glashütte Original, JLC, Rolex, Omega, and (with equal enthusiasm) MKII.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## Hendu615

Just put my deposit on the Key West!!! Now the decision Gilt or no Gilt Pepsi???? 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

Hendu615 said:


> Just put my deposit on the Key West!!! Now the decision Gilt or no Gilt Pepsi????
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Before yout order comes up, I would imagine that there will scores of photos posted of every configuration. You will be able to see what they all look like before you order.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Hendu615

Arthur said:


> Before yout order comes up, I would imagine that there will scores of photos posted of every configuration. You will be able to see what they all look like before you order.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Very true, thanks for the advice.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## exxondus

Urgh, waiting dor a chance to pucrchase this. Wonder if they still have stock for late adopters....


----------



## Eclipse

I got my preorder code that expires in two days... Definitely like the black non-gilt and would lean more toward the coke bezel of the options provided. However I don't know if can get into the two colored bezel (I originally wanted a Project 300).

My question is does anyone know if there will be an all black bezel available? I have seen this on some Rolex GMT's.

Also, has there been any word on the bezels being interchangeable (if you are able to purchase more than one). Again, I know you can do this on some of the Rolex GMT's.

Thanks!


----------



## 66Cooper

I am going to say no on the bezel insert interchangeability. If I remember correctly from previous discussions, the original bezel insert would be ruined once removed.


----------



## powerband

Arthur said:


> Before yout order comes up, I would imagine that there will scores of photos posted of every configuration.


And hopefully without any filter on the pictures. I don't want an MKII with a pink and purple bezel. ;-)


----------



## timeturner7

Arthur said:


> I agree completely. You would be hard pressed to find another watch that has the same quality for price as MKII's I have three and my Key West will be my fourth.


Mkii are great quality. 
I walked into a Seiko boutique store in NYC yesterday and tried on the Grand Seiko snow flake, which is simply epic. The 2 store staff saw me take off my Nassau on a nato and they were both in love with it. One guy asked if he could turn the crown and bezel and looked so satisfied feeling the quality. I was happy to tell him a bit more about Mkii, but they are definitely not getting my place for the Key West!!! I cannot wait for this, but I have to 
I am also dying for the Fulcrum to come back.


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> I am going to say no on the bezel insert interchangeability. If I remember correctly from previous discussions, the original bezel insert would be ruined once removed.


This is what I believe. IIRC the bezel inserts are glued in.


----------



## Chromejob

powerband said:


> The time in which my colleagues could spend on professional development or reading for self-improvement is often squandered away on Facebook's meaningless soundbites and mostly irrelevant updates from so-called friends they haven't seen in over 2 decades.
> 
> Back on topic: I personally would enjoy more frequent updates with _crisp and clear_ photos of parts that are in, even if that means I have to get on Facebook every few days. I wouldn't say that this turns Bill Yao into a teaser but someone who understands his paying customers' motivation and yearning to be a more consistent part of the process. Photo updates help to preserve the excitement and possibly build new excitement for future projects.
> 
> Back to my groundhog hole for another 6 weeks.


The paying customers for the Key West are HERE, not FB.
___________

Once again, this is THE DESIGN THREAD, not the "I just posted my deposit" thread.


----------



## Hendu615

Chromejob said:


> The paying customers for the Key West are HERE, not FB.
> ___________
> 
> Once again, this is THE DESIGN THREAD, not the "I just posted my deposit" thread.


Was I wrong for simply posting that I just put a deposit down?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Thieuster

When you do some back-reading in this thread, you'll find that some postings are far, far more away from the subject that yours - and we always came back on topic. Since this is posting #2200+ about this subject, it is inevenatable that we're 'taken by the current of thoughts' from time to time! I love to read a posting from a happy fellow enthousiast - even when it's not 100% on topic. I am sure you'll start posting 'on topics' here when the time comes.

Sit back and enjoy - don't worry too much.

Menno


----------



## Hendu615

Thieuster said:


> When you do some back-reading in this thread, you'll find that some postings are far, far more away from the subject that yours - and we always came back on topic. Since this is posting #2200+ about this subject, it is inevenatable that we're 'taken by the current of thoughts' from time to time! I love to read a posting from a happy fellow enthousiast - even when it's not 100% on topic. I am sure you'll start posting 'on topics' here when the time comes.
> 
> Sit back and enjoy - don't worry too much.
> 
> Menno


Thank you sir, back on topic!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## powerband

I wonder how the caseback is coming along.

Contrails or palm tree... anyone wanna take a guess for conversation?



Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

powerband said:


> I wonder how the caseback is coming along.
> 
> Contrails or palm tree... anyone wanna take a guess for conversation?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Absolutely no idea. It could end up being a plain case with the only engraving being the serial # and MKII.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gwold

Arthur said:


> Absolutely no idea. It could end up being a plain case with the only engraving being the serial # and MKII.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The caseback certainly could end up being plain, and there're folks here in the discussion who're lobbying for that. I have to wonder, though, because originally Bill had promised a special caseback to the plank owners, and even now the order page says,


> Special case back: All of the watches in this series will have a special case back made for it. (This change was updated in June 2015. Previously it was noted that only the first 200 pieces would use a special case back.)


I've no idea what Bill's come up with, but would be very surprised if he stuck with those odd contrails from the last design he posted. I do really like the designs posted earlier with the jet descending above the palm tree, and would prefer a design to a plain back. Just my $0.02, though.


----------



## powerband

I'm OK with contrails or Palm tree, but I can most appreciate a blank caseback with just the serial and MKII logo. The rest of the watch will be more than enough to carry its utter awesomeness.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## supersmitty

Arthur said:


> Absolutely no idea. It could end up being a plain case with the only engraving being the serial # and MKII.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hopefully simplicity / KISS method will win out... Then we can hope for a Cyclops(and argue about it)!! muahahaha


----------



## BigHaole

supersmitty said:


> Then we can hope for a Cyclops(and argue about it)!! muahahaha


I think we have a better chance of getting a palm tree then we do a cyclops...unfortunately.


----------



## Chromejob

The mirrored caseback of the Kingston has a marvelous image on it, a reflection of me. (tongue firmly in cheek)


----------



## powerband

For those of you who already made your decision on bezel colors, what are your reasons for choosing blue/red or black/red?




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----------



## Pentameter

Red & blue just adds more color. White and black are not really "colors" per se… plus the red, blue & white color scheme is very well established. Even though it's our flag colors, I think the white dial w/ Pepsi bezel is more evocative of a French flag. And while not technically true in terms of color theory, red & blue are kind of seen as opposite colors, so you have either a white or black dial that isn't a color, and then the bezel colors are red or blue. I don't know, I guess just visually it works better. I think the Coke bezel looks nice, but it doesn't hold a candle to the Pepsi bezel.


----------



## STEELINOX

powerband said:


> For those of you who already made your decision on bezel colors, what are your reasons for choosing blue/red or black/red?
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


I chose red and blue because it - along with a white dial - will just look amaaaaazing , imho, that is...

yeaaah Baby !


----------



## 66Cooper

Personally, when I think of a GMT watch, I think of a Rolex. And, for me it's always been a Pepsi bezel. It's what makes a GMT a GMT...for me at least. I'm 99% sure I'm going with a black dial but that 1% might be the largest 1% in history for the white dial. 

Also, I have a Kingston and other subs. Sure the bezel is different and there is an extra hand but the red and blue bezel just brings it all sorts of together.


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> Personally, when I think of a GMT watch, I think of a Rolex. And, for me it's always been a Pepsi bezel. It's what makes a GMT a GMT...for me at least. I'm 99% sure I'm going with a black dial but that 1% might be the largest 1% in history for the white dial.
> 
> Also, I have a Kingston and other subs. Sure the bezel is different and there is an extra hand but the red and blue bezel just brings it all sorts of together.


I agree 100%. If it's good enough for Rolex, it's good enough for me!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## supersmitty

Chromejob said:


> The mirrored caseback of the Kingston has a marvelous image on it, a reflection of me. (tongue firmly in cheek)


well said...maybe someone could come up with some sort of Reverso styled flip mechanism so we could check our makeup


----------



## supersmitty

powerband said:


> For those of you who already made your decision on bezel colors, what are your reasons for choosing blue/red or black/red?


I'm non committal, so I'm picking both... thinking classic blue/red bezel on black face (but can't decide btw gilt or silver hands); and black/red on white gilt.

I really excited as think this setup will feel like two completely different watches, and when you throw in the strap combos the permutations become many!


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## BigHaole

While I fully expect to change my mind at least a dozen times, after we see production pictures and before my number comes up for final choice...right now I'm thinking black dial, gilt, red and blue. While I really like the red/black "coke" combination, particularly on the GMTMaster2, on an homage, like this, I think the classic combination will make me happier. Also, I'm kinda hoping for a "Havana" model to follow this (as the Nassau did the Kingston), with a dark brown dial, maybe an "aged" lume, and the coke bezel (check out the beginning of this thread!).


----------



## JFingers

BigHaole said:


> While I fully expect to change my mind at least a dozen times, after we see production pictures and before my number comes up for final choice...right now I'm thinking black dial, gilt, red and blue. While I really like the red/black "coke" combination, particularly on the GMTMaster2, on an homage, like this, I think the classic combination will make me happier. Also, I'm kinda hoping for a "Havana" model to follow this (as the Nassau did the Kingston), with a dark brown dial, maybe an "aged" lume, and the coke bezel (check out the beginning of this thread!).


Ooooh, a root beer gmt, tropical brown dial with gilt and a gold and brown bezel... That would be my second choice after the white pepsi one.

I'm still super stoked that this is progressing as it is now, hopefully vendors keep sending good products that meet Bill's standards and this keeps moving in the right direction.

Blue skies, y'all! 
-only Jake


----------



## powerband

Borrowed from www.
Some light visual comparison between bezel options.





































Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## Thieuster

Pepsi dial for me with a black gilted dial. Period.

Menno


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## Arthur

And what is really nice, over time that Pepsi will age and mellow and fade, sort of like this one.









Unfortunately, I don't think that the superluminova plots and hands will achieve this creamy aged color like this tritium. At least that is what I have been told.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Eric90

From the MKII Facebook page;

Bill in reply to a question asking him to estimate completion and shipping of first Key West;

"My best guess is Q1 of 2016. We are still waiting on 1 or 2 more sets of parts so it's impossible to be more precise than that"

Good news!


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## JFingers

Eric90 said:


> From the MKII Facebook page;
> 
> Bill in reply to a question asking him to estimate completion and shipping of first Key West;
> 
> "My best guess is Q1 of 2016. We are still waiting on 1 or 2 more sets of parts so it's impossible to be more precise than that"
> 
> Good news!


You beat me to it! And yes, great news indeed!

-only jake


----------



## Arthur

I'll be really really happy when we can put this thread to bed and see some "My Key West arrived today, picture heavy" threads!!!


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## supersmitty

Arthur said:


> I'll be really really happy when we can put this thread to bed and see some "My Key West arrived today, picture heavy" threads!!!


Took the words right outta my mouth sir!
I'm not so secretly waiting/hoping for the "My Keywest arrived and here's how I modded it with a sweet cyclops" thread

I mean look how great it looks w date magnification!



powerband said:


> Borrowed from www.
> Some light visual comparison between bezel options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

I am seriously looking forward to all the new threads that will arise from the arrivals of our long awaited beauties


----------



## powerband

66Cooper said:


> I am seriously looking forward to all the new threads that will arise from the arrivals of our long awaited beauties


And it's going to hurt like something fierce if you're not the first ten or 20. But it's going to be sweet candy when you finally find that package at your front door.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Aceldama

I'm stressing about dial and bezel availability. Were the Kingston's built to order, or did the final few orders get what was left?


----------



## Calibrel

Aceldama said:


> I'm stressing about dial and bezel availability. Were the Kingston's built to order, or did the final few orders get what was left?


I'm wondering about option availability as well.


----------



## powerband

Aceldama said:


> I'm stressing about dial and bezel availability. Were the Kingston's built to order, or did the final few orders get what was left?


I don't think you need to worry about availability of various configurations, even the more popular ones. I assume MKII/Bill will have enough parts on hand, much of which will also be for any needed warranty work in the future.


----------



## supersmitty

Aceldama said:


> I'm stressing about dial and bezel availability.


Don't my friend, all is well and part availability is factored into the raw material ordering piece of this... Bill knows what he's doing... Partly why his QC processes are so time intensive.


----------



## White Tuna

Aceldama said:


> I'm stressing about dial and bezel availability. Were the Kingston's built to order, or did the final few orders get what was left?


At the very end of the Kingston run Bill had 10 pieces he released. Those were only available in certain configurations.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/kingston-general-ordering-599150.html

But this was really the last of the run and not part of the general order as stated by the thread title.

Ironically I received this watch, which I ordered 1 or 2 years after my initial Kingston order, 2-3 weeks before I received my initial order.


----------



## POR901

The countdown begins.....


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## White Tuna

POR901 said:


> The countdown begins.....


----------



## BigHaole

powerband said:


> And it's going to hurt like something fierce if you're not the first ten or 20. But it's going to be sweet candy when you finally find that package at your front door.


Does anyone remember what the deliver rate was like, with the Kingston, when things got rolling. I know there was some wonkiness about delivery order, due to the many, many configurations, but that shouldn't be an issue with the Key West. Personally, I don't want to be in the first 10 or 20, so I have time to see the pictures of the watches that are delivered. That will make it easier for me to make my final decision. I didn't sign up on the first day of the plank, so I'm sure I'll have some time on my hands to decide.


----------



## powerband

POR901 said:


> The countdown begins.....


The countdown begun years ago, my friend.


----------



## timeturner7

powerband said:


> For those of you who already made your decision on bezel colors, what are your reasons for choosing blue/red or black/red?


I am picking a coke bezel as i own a 16750 pepsi.


----------



## Arthur

timeturner7 said:


> I am picking a coke bezel as i own a 16750 pepsi.


I am going with the Pepsi, to me those are the original colors that Rolex used for all the GMT's for several years until the Coke inserts were released. I also have a 16750 as well as and Ocean7 GMT both have Pepsi bezels, although the Ocean7 is darker, almost the color of the old Bakelite bezels on the 6542's.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MHe225

No big revelations here, but I've been waiting for this day to arrive: I have to post on page 225 ;-)

So, going with the DDJ - Discussion Du Jour - Pepsi for me (blue & red). That's an easy decision; the more difficult one is the dial. We'll have two incoming and I was thinking both black (plus gilt) and white (plus gilt), but both my wife and I seem to favor the white face. Getting to identical ones (not 100%, 1 Plank, 1 GO) is cool as / for a couple, but somehow feels wrong. But so is not wearing the watch of your first choice.

Now that, my friends, is a true first world problem .......

Here's to hoping that Mr. Yao comes to the rescue and puts the other dial in the Plank kit


----------



## goyoneuff

Such a great watch... coming to live after all these years ! 

As a proud owner of two Kingston, and three other MKII'S gone but never forgotten, I gotta ask this: Does anyone have idea of what kind of bracelet will Bill offer with the GMT? Some will disagree, but IMHO the bracelet is a very important part of the watch. I have spent a very good amount of time and $$$ trying to find the best bracelet for my Kingstons...

Cheers. 

G.


----------



## Chromejob

goyoneuff said:


> Such a great watch... coming to live after all these years !
> 
> As a proud owner of two Kingston, and three other MKII'S gone but never forgotten, I gotta ask this: Does anyone have idea of what kind of bracelet will Bill offer with the GMT? Some will disagree, but IMHO the bracelet is a very important part of the watch. I have spent a very good amount of time and $$$ trying to find the best bracelet for my Kingstons...
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> G.


What was wrong (?) with the provided riveted style SS bracelet? Got pics of what you got, or want on your Key West?


----------



## BigHaole

I also expect it will be the same riveted bracelet used with the Kingston.


----------



## Thieuster

Chromejob said:


> What was wrong (?) with the provided riveted style SS bracelet? Got pics of what you got, or want on your Key West?


The riveted bracelet made grown men cry. Adjustment proved not to be easy for some... to say the least. Luckily, my Kingston didn't arrive as first, so I had time to find a solution before it arrived: a Bergeon tool that holds both sides of the bracelet with tiny screwdrivers. Must say that I opted for the much easier Hadley Roma as well. Personally, I think that the riveted bracelet is a little flat/low compared with the watch.

Menno


----------



## STEELINOX

Has anyone any experience with mounting a genuine ROLEX strap onto any MK II?


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## goyoneuff

Well, I hope Bill brings something better than the Kingston and Nassau bracelets. Yes, the riveted stock gives the watch a vintage vibe, but IMHO is a bit thin, the clasp is not the best, resizing it is a PITA. I would like to see something like a nice Oyster and/or president kind/type of watch bracelet. Maybe something like the Omega AT 8500 "presidential" bracelets?

There is the Hadley Roma but the clasp is not good. There is Strapcode Endmill which is a great presidential kind but the clasp is a wee bit on the big side. There is generic Oyster/Jubilee bracelets from different places that are ok, but still not to the level of the quality a MKII watch deserves. Some have the edges too sharp, or the links too thick, or the clasp is a mess. Then is the original Rolex bracelets, which I have tried too: 93150 and 78360 that work with the original Kingston / Nassau SEL's, that is a nice combination, but a very costly one, even with used Rolex bracelets. I guess my point is that with such high quality watch like the Kingston and/or GMT, Bill should take the time to include a nice, solid, confortable bracelet, maybe of the presidential type with a nice clasp. I believe that he might have the right connections with vendors to procure such a bracelet with his marvelous watches.

Just my 0.02.  

Cheers.

G.



Chromejob said:


> What was wrong (?) with the provided riveted style SS bracelet? Got pics of what you got, or want on your Key West?





BigHaole said:


> I also expect it will be the same riveted bracelet used with the Kingston.





Thieuster said:


> The riveted bracelet made grown men cry. Adjustment proved not to be easy for some... to say the least. Luckily, my Kingston didn't arrive as first, so I had time to find a solution before it arrived: a Bergeon tool that holds both sides of the bracelet with tiny screwdrivers. Must say that I opted for the much easier Hadley Roma as well. Personally, I think that the riveted bracelet is a little flat/low compared with the watch.
> 
> Menno





STEELINOX said:


> Has anyone any experience with mounting a genuine ROLEX strap onto any MK II?
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## fastfras

Thieuster said:


> The riveted bracelet made grown men cry. Adjustment proved not to be easy for some... to say the least. Luckily, my Kingston didn't arrive as first, so I had time to find a solution before it arrived: a Bergeon tool that holds both sides of the bracelet with tiny screwdrivers. Must say that I opted for the much easier Hadley Roma as well. Personally, I think that the riveted bracelet is a little flat/low compared with the watch.
> 
> Menno


They're easy to adjust, providing you have three hands to do the work.

Personally I prefer the bracelet that came with the Vantage, it's a cleaner design.


----------



## fastfras

STEELINOX said:


> Has anyone any experience with mounting a genuine ROLEX strap onto any MK II?
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


The 95150 with the 530 ends fit my Nassau, I'm sure they'll fit on other MKII's. I don't have a problem with the bracelet provided, think they are of good quality and quite comfortable.


----------



## fastfras

STEELINOX said:


> Has anyone any experience with mounting a genuine ROLEX strap onto any MK II?
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Double post, my apologies.


----------



## goyoneuff

Fast, you meant 93150, right ?   


fastfras said:


> The 95150 with the 530 ends fit my Nassau, I'm sure they'll fit on other MKII's. I don't have a problem with the bracelet provided, think they are of good quality and quite comfortable.


----------



## Darwin

I'm relatively happy with the bracelet on my Kingston. Yes, it's a PITA to adjust (but then have you tried to remove links from a Marathon bracelet?!) and I REALLY wish there were some half-links available or more micro-adjustments on the clasp, but it fits the watch, I think. I've had a couple of genuine Rolex rivet bracelets and the MKII bracelet is better made/nicer. SELs, sold clasp "connectors" - much more substantial and hefty feeling.


----------



## Thevenin

and here comes today's eye candy

















very handy


----------



## STEELINOX

goyoneuff said:


> Well, I hope Bill brings something better than the Kingston and Nassau bracelets. Yes, the riveted stock gives the watch a vintage vibe, but IMHO is a bit thin, the clasp is not the best, resizing it is a PITA. I would like to see something like a nice Oyster and/or president kind/type of watch bracelet. Maybe something like the Omega AT 8500 "presidential" bracelets?
> 
> There is the Hadley Roma but the clasp is not good. There is Strapcode Endmill which is a great presidential kind but the clasp is a wee bit on the big side. There is generic Oyster/Jubilee bracelets from different places that are ok, but still not to the level of the quality a MKII watch deserves. Some have the edges too sharp, or the links too thick, or the clasp is a mess. Then is the original Rolex bracelets, which I have tried too: 93150 and 78360 that work with the original Kingston / Nassau SEL's, that is a nice combination, but a very costly one, even with used Rolex bracelets. I guess my point is that with such high quality watch like the Kingston and/or GMT, Bill should take the time to include a nice, solid, confortable bracelet, maybe of the presidential type with a nice clasp. I believe that he might have the right connections with vendors to procure such a bracelet with his marvelous watches.
> 
> Just my 0.02.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> G.


I'll source a proper ROLEX jubilee for mine...

yeaaah Baby !


----------



## fastfras

goyoneuff said:


> Fast, you meant 93150, right ?


Yup, that's what i meant.. Didn't expect anyone to actually read my comments!


----------



## cadomniel

i use a Hadley roma bracelet with the MKII solid end links.

Works perfectly for me


----------



## Arthur

STEELINOX said:


> I'll source a proper ROLEX jubilee for mine...
> 
> yeaaah Baby !


If I were to change the bracelet, the Jubilee would be my choice as well!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## k1gordon

Please share a photo! Thx


----------



## 66Cooper

Does anyone have pix of their Kingston on a gen Rolex Jubilee??


----------



## supersmitty

Excellent points!



goyoneuff said:


> Well, I hope Bill brings something better than the Kingston and Nassau bracelets. Yes, the riveted stock gives the watch a vintage vibe, but IMHO is a bit thin, the clasp is not the best, resizing it is a PITA. I would like to see something like a nice Oyster and/or president kind/type of watch bracelet. Maybe something like the Omega AT 8500 "presidential" bracelets?
> 
> There is the Hadley Roma but the clasp is not good. There is Strapcode Endmill which is a great presidential kind but the clasp is a wee bit on the big side. There is generic Oyster/Jubilee bracelets from different places that are ok, but still not to the level of the quality a MKII watch deserves. Some have the edges too sharp, or the links too thick, or the clasp is a mess. Then is the original Rolex bracelets, which I have tried too: 93150 and 78360 that work with the original Kingston / Nassau SEL's, that is a nice combination, but a very costly one, even with used Rolex bracelets. I guess my point is that with such high quality watch like the Kingston and/or GMT, Bill should take the time to include a nice, solid, confortable bracelet, maybe of the presidential type with a nice clasp. I believe that he might have the right connections with vendors to procure such a bracelet with his marvelous watches.
> 
> Just my 0.02.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> G.


----------



## supersmitty

STEELINOX said:


> I'll source a proper ROLEX jubilee for mine...
> 
> yeaaah Baby !


Ditto here, hoping to find a used one in good shape... Cause that'll be the trick right, a vintage (read beat up) strap on mint watch is kind of like driving a jalopy with a spoiler


----------



## supersmitty

66Cooper said:


> Does anyone have pix of their Kingston on a gen Rolex Jubilee??


Would love to see this too... Second this request


----------



## Thevenin

I do have a brand new 63600 jubilee, but no Kingston to put on.. Feel free to send one over for a try


----------



## 66Cooper

Maybe better if you sent the bracelet my way. Hahaha!!!

On all of this, if I were to be looking to buy a gen Jubilee, what model should I be looking for? I know nothing on this topic really.


----------



## Thevenin

Original 6542 was meant to be on the riveted Oyster bracelet (7206), but some do exist on ref. 6251 jubilees.

For 1675/16750, jubilee reference was 62510H with ref. 550 endlinks. 16700/16760/16710 also had 62510H with 502B/T endlinks.

Newest generation jubilee bracelets are the ones on DateJusts ( references 63200 and 63600; besides the number of removable links, they are the same), and they do fit 16710s and 116710s. They have solid end-links and center-links.

So, for vintage, look for ref. 62510, for new, it would be ref. 6320x/6360x.

I myself get much more excited with thinking the watch itself :-d



66Cooper said:


> Maybe better if you sent the bracelet my way. Hahaha!!!
> 
> On all of this, if I were to be looking to buy a gen Jubilee, what model should I be looking for? I know nothing on this topic really.


----------



## Pentameter

well maybe I'm crazy, but I LOVE the Kingston/Nassau rivet bracelet. A higher-quality clasp would be nice, but isn't necessary. It's great the way it is now.


----------



## TheMeasure

Pentameter said:


> well maybe I'm crazy, but I LOVE the Kingston/Nassau rivet bracelet. A higher-quality clasp would be nice, but isn't necessary. It's great the way it is now.


I feel the same. I'm crazy too ;-)..maybe


----------



## Euterpe

The Steinhart claps is not bad on rubber strap ... just my two cents


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Pentameter said:


> well maybe I'm crazy, but I LOVE the Kingston/Nassau rivet bracelet. A higher-quality clasp would be nice, but isn't necessary. It's great the way it is now.


;-) Me, too -- But. I am always curious and wondering, 'What if....' :-s.

That being said, here is some recent 'product testing:' Hadley-Roma's generic 'Jubilee-Style' bracelet on my Kingston....









The Hadley-Roma has sheet metal, folded end-links - the curvature against the case in the lug-recess doesn't match up just right. Kind of rattly-loose like the vintage bracelets of yore. It could fit better with some minor re-shaping (read: bending) of the metal to match the curvature of the top surface of the lug. I just have not gotten up the courage to try it yet. ;-)

The bracelet itself features solid parts at the end of each link. It is very flexible and very comfortable. The clasp is nothing to write home about, but it could be replaced with a more solid and durable type. Perhaps even the stock MKII clasp could be fitted as a replacement - I might just try that later.

--- Cheers! ---

|>|>


----------



## Thevenin

Honestly, Oyster style fits the Submariner look way better, and that's not just me  but fun to try of course


----------



## 66Cooper

The oyster is correct and accurate and the MKII rivet bracelet is a treat. That said, who doesn't like to mix things up a bit? I've been living with my Kingston and its bracelet for years now and LOVE them dearly but I also own about a million different straps for it...so why not go for a jubilee for kicks. I'm all about mixing it up. 
Also, it helps pass the time. When the KW finally does land, I'm sure I will care less about everything else in the world but it BUT in the meantime, I need something to fill the void. Haha


----------



## Chromejob

Thieuster said:


> The riveted bracelet made grown men cry. Adjustment proved not to be easy for some... to say the least. Luckily, my Kingston didn't arrive as first, so I had time to find a solution before it arrived: a Bergeon tool that holds both sides of the bracelet with tiny screwdrivers. Must say that I opted for the much easier Hadley Roma as well. Personally, I think that the riveted bracelet is a little flat/low compared with the watch.
> 
> Menno


I was able to do it with a band stabilizer and two precision tools from Maratac, but I sympathize. I was actually looking at the thicker bracelet with my O&W/WCT 5512 homage, and see the Mk II bracelet would suit it better. I liked the O&W (Hadley-Roma?) bracelet on the Kingston in 2012.....


----------



## Arthur

I have a couple of the old 62510H Jubilees, I wear one on my 16750 and it is a super comfortable and light bracelet. Of course like all the old Rolex rIvet and folded link bracelets, it's "Tinny" and it looks pretty flimsy compared to the newer solid link oysters and Jubilee's. Also when you compare endlink fitment between the newer SEL bracelets and the old folded link bracelets with removable endlinks, it's like comparing apples to oranges. The endlink fitment for the newer watches is amazing, provided you match the watch to the proper bracelet. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Arthur said:


> The endlink fitment for the newer watches is amazing...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes. It's too tight for the hair of a mite!

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## TheMeasure

2015-12-11 Project GMT Update



> *December 11, 2015 By admin*
> 
> 
> The engraving of the case backs is nearly complete. Shipment is expected in early January 2016
> The bezel inlays are expected to be delivered by the end of February 2016
> Inspection of date wheels, dials, hands are currently in process.
> Case preparation is ongoing.
> The matte black dial option is currently in mass production. We delayed production of this dial in order to get other parts that we needed through the manufacturing process. If we hadn't delayed the matte black dial production we would not have the parts we need for the Black/gold and white/gold versions. I will know more about the impact on delivery of this version of the Project GMT after a delivery time is communicated to us from the vendor.
> Based on the status of the parts so far we expect to begin assembly of the Black/gold and white/gold dials in January 2016.
> We will be asking the Plankowners to make their final selections in late December/early January 2016.


----------



## Chromejob

Chromejob said:


> I was able to do it with a band stabilizer and two precision tools from Maratac, but I sympathize. I was actually looking at the thicker bracelet with my O&W/WCT 5512 homage, and see the Mk II bracelet would suit it better. I liked the O&W (Hadley-Roma?) bracelet on the Kingston in 2012.....


Just to prove a point (to myself), here's the Nassau bracelet on a thinner-than-MkII, O&W 5512 homage. Bracelet complements the lithe lugs well.


----------



## 66Cooper

Thanks again for posting updates...and what an update. Chalk full of gray info!!


----------



## goyoneuff

Quoting yourself and posting just one picture? Shame on you !!!


Chromejob said:


> Just to prove a point (to myself), here's the Nassau bracelet on a thinner-than-MkII, O&W 5512 homage. Bracelet complements the lithe lugs well.


----------



## Chromejob

Quoting myself so you know what I'm referring to.


----------



## goyoneuff

^^^

The whole post intend was to get moar pics !


----------



## BigHaole

"_We will be asking the Plankowners to make their final selections in late December/early January 2016."

_Does this mean all Plankowners will need to decide on our configurations, before we see any assembled watches with bezels?


----------



## powerband

BigHaole said:


> "_We will be asking the Plankowners to make their final selections in late December/early January 2016."
> 
> _Does this mean all Plankowners will need to decide on our configurations, before we see any assembled watches with bezels?


Pressure?


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

goyoneuff said:


> ^^^
> 
> The whole post intend was to get moar pics !


Ah,well, since you asked nicely.










In other news, QC of another batch of date wheels, posted to IG this afternoon.


----------



## powerband

Is it my eyes being super critical, or is that date a little offset to the left of the date-window?


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Darwin

Possibly, but as it's not the Key West dial, I wouldn't be too concerned about it!



powerband said:


> Is it my eyes being super critical, or is that date a little offset to the left of the date-window?
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## gwold

powerband said:


> Is it my eyes being super critical, or is that date a little offset to the left of the date-window?
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


I'd guess it's the angle of the photo, nothing more.


----------



## POR901

BigHaole said:


> "_We will be asking the Plankowners to make their final selections in late December/early January 2016."
> 
> _Does this mean all Plankowners will need to decide on our configurations, before we see any assembled watches with bezels?


I'm looking forward to seeing what the bezel looks like. I'm hoping for something like this....


----------



## Aceldama

Ah man. I was hoping that was the matte dial Key West with a dual time zone...



Darwin said:


> Possibly, but as it's not the Key West dial, I wouldn't be too concerned about it!


----------



## JFingers

Chromejob said:


> In other news, QC of another batch of date wheels, posted to IG this afternoon.





Darwin said:


> Possibly, but as it's not the Key West dial, I wouldn't be too concerned about it!


I'm thinking it might be an LRRP/Fulcrum dial... I remember there being some RumInt about something like that...

Edit: I asked something about it on the Book of Faces, and Mr. Yao responded "MK II Watches Sorry for the confusion...no the LRRP dial is something that I keep around for testing. Since I know that dial is "good" I can test other things like the alignment of the print on the date wheels, which is what I was checking at the time."


----------



## STEELINOX

Double post


----------



## STEELINOX

powerband said:


> Pressure?
> 
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kIHjAA&usg=AFQjCNGZ_Ev2zZGQ4I7laWP-sXubuvuyTA

yeaaah Baby !


----------



## Calibrel

Gotta say I'm pleasantly surprised by the timeline. Didn't think Plankholders would even be a thought until late spring early summer.

Still waiting on those case-back images though....


----------



## dwg

JFingers said:


> I'm thinking it might be an LRRP/Fulcrum dial... I remember there being some RumInt about something like that...
> 
> Edit: I asked something about it on the Book of Faces, and Mr. Yao responded "MK II Watches Sorry for the confusion...no the LRRP dial is something that I keep around for testing. Since I know that dial is "good" I can test other things like the alignment of the print on the date wheels, which is what I was checking at the time."


could that be, why the date seems not centered? I guess the LRRP dial may be slightly bigger.

Key West dial will look better anyway, but I like the indexes without outlines, which I think are quite redundant on the KW.


----------



## Packleader

I can't believe that I just now realized that there is a MKII facebook page...

Thanks!
Packleader


----------



## powerband

Packleader said:


> I can't believe that I just now realized that there is a MKII facebook page...
> 
> Thanks!
> Packleader


What's a face book page?

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

powerband said:


> What's a face book page?
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatches/?fref=ts

[url]https://www.instagram.com/mkiiwatch/
[/URL]


----------



## celtics1984

I have been laying in the weeds on what my final Key West configuration will be. Pepsi bezel, gold gilt/black dial.


----------



## 66Cooper

Even though I'm fairly confident in what I'm gonna pick, until we see fully assembled pics I don't think it's wise for anyone to make up your mind just yet.


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> Even though I'm fairly confident in what I'm gonna pick, until we see fully assembled pics I don't think it's wise for anyone to make up your mind just yet.


I am a "wise guy," and have made my choice to get the white dialed gilt glorified pepsi with all the trimmings - site unseen !:-!


----------



## STEELINOX

And also happy to sponsor this, the 231st page of this thread !


----------



## Darwin

Fully agree - I know what my heart says, and what my mind says, and they are contradicting each other. Will decide after I see a few photos of the various combinations.



66Cooper said:


> Even though I'm fairly confident in what I'm gonna pick, until we see fully assembled pics I don't think it's wise for anyone to make up your mind just yet.


----------



## 66Cooper

That what I'm like! I remember the same with the Kingston. I am a HUGE bond fan and have a massive bond watch collection. I was 100% sure I wanted the bond bezel until the last second when I went with the red triangle...and I love it. Haha


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> Even though I'm fairly confident in what I'm gonna pick, until we see fully assembled pics I don't think it's wise for anyone to make up your mind just yet.


According to the last news post, "We will be asking the Plankowners to make their final selections in late December/early January 2016." But the bezel inserts aren't expected until the end of Feb, so it sounds like Plankowners will have to make their choices without any fully assembled pics.


----------



## e dantes

BigHaole said:


> According to the last news post, "We will be asking the Plankowners to make their final selections in late December/early January 2016." But the bezel inserts aren't expected until the end of Feb, so it sounds like Plankowners will have to make their choices without any fully assembled pics.


Before Mr. Yao ordered the final bezel inserts, it is likely he had several acceptable samples. Maybe these will be enough to assemble one complete watch of each variation. I am way back on the ordering list, but it would be good for the plankowners to see what their choices are. I am looking forward to seeing pictures of the actual watches.


----------



## STEELINOX

66Cooper said:


> That what I'm like! I remember the same with the Kingston. I am a HUGE bond fan and have a massive bond watch collection. I was 100% sure I wanted the bond bezel until the last second when I went with the *red triangle*...and I love it. Haha


There's nothin lika splash of *"red"* !


----------



## powerband

It's like dating sites where pictures don't tell the full story until the actual meeting in person. "Holy hell, this person isn't the same person in the picture."

I'd like to see full pictures, multiple angles, back front, up down, side to side, close up, and back up away.


----------



## MHe225

powerband said:


> It's like dating sites ....


What's a dating site? :-d

Some facility where you check the abundance of the C-13 isotope to determine the age of a certain object? :think:

I am thoroughly confused now. But not about the configuration of my Key West (Plank order): white Gilt and Pepsi bezel |>
Still thinking about the GO configuration for the spousal unit. Choice would be easier if Mr. Yao were to make spare dials and bezels available for Plank owners.


----------



## powerband

MHe225 said:


> What's a dating site? :-d
> 
> Some facility where you check the abundance of the C-13 isotope to determine the age of a certain object? .


We might break the assay machine.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

gwold said:


> I'd guess it's the angle of the photo, nothing more.


I'll actually post an image later but this is pretty accurate as far as how vintage Rolex looks. The other day when my date was on 19 the spacing was nearly identical.

If you look at a bare date wheel from the era (or Bill's newest) you'll see that for two digit dates the leading 1 is spaced almost as far left as the leading 2. For two digit dates beginning with 1 the second number uses the majority of the window and the 1 is far left. Numbers are more evenly spaced starting with 20.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

From a 1984 16660 SeaDweller.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

TheDude, good info. Thanks.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Thieuster

Will there be a Christmas present waiting for us? In so many words: a Sneak Preview? I wouldn't mind seeing an assembled (case, crystal etc etc) KW on Christmas morning!

Menno


----------



## Thieuster

TheDude said:


> From a 1984 16660 SeaDweller.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Good call!

It shows us that we're overreacting when we see a pic of the KW 'as is' (under development). We've raised the bar sooooo high, that we assume / insist (?) that Bill is capable of leapfrogging the Rolex Quality Control... This pic of the SeaDweller puts us back where we belong; sinking through the bottom of Cloud Nine, back with our feet on the ground!

Menno


----------



## TheDude

Thieuster said:


> Good call!
> 
> It shows us that we're overreacting when we see a pic of the KW 'as is' (under development). We've raised the bar sooooo high, that we assume / insist (?) that Bill is capable of leapfrogging the Rolex Quality Control... This pic of the SeaDweller puts us back where we belong; sinking through the bottom of Cloud Nine, back with our feet on the ground!
> 
> Menno


It's all in the placement of the numerals. From the image of Bill's date wheel, it would appear on 10-19 the 1s are as far left as the edge of the 2s on 20-29. That would explain the spacing we see in the image in question.

I personally like it as it's part of the period look as I pointed out.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

Thieuster said:


> Good call!
> 
> It shows us that we're overreacting when we see a pic of the KW 'as is' (under development). We've raised the bar sooooo high, that we assume / insist (?) that Bill is capable of leapfrogging the Rolex Quality Control... This pic of the SeaDweller puts us back where we belong; sinking through the bottom of Cloud Nine, back with our feet on the ground!
> 
> Menno


Never in my mind did I have that high an expectation for KEY WEST...

It culd never be what once was, it is a simple compliment to that historical timepiece...

I could not go out and drop the money for today's "ceramic iteration" because it has strayed so far from those historic "lines" and now just is some "blinged out version," from some kids head at ROLEX development and marketing that thinks he understands "evolution" and today's affluent consumer...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## mindaddy

Sorry if this has been covered before (MK II noob here). I know this is the design thread but it seems to have the latest with respect to launch. 

Like all of us, I'm eagerly awaiting my Key West but need to make some decisions in the mean time. 

For those that went through this process with Kingston - how long, once it launched, did it make it out to non-plank owners?

If we're looking at Q1/Q2 for plank release (is this the best current guestimate?) - should I expect Q3, Q4, or even 2017? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## BigHaole

Thieuster said:


> ...We've raised the bar sooooo high, that we assume / insist (?) that Bill is capable of leapfrogging the Rolex Quality Control...


I've seen enough pictures of mis-aligned Rolex bezels that I, personally, expect Bill to leapfrog Rolex Quality Control.


----------



## STEELINOX

BigHaole said:


> I've seen enough pictures of mis-aligned Rolex bezels that I, personally, expect Bill to leapfrog Rolex Quality Control.


Noooo !

Bill should try and reproduce these "inconsistencies" of misaligned bezels, and date wheels - especially in PLANK orders !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## TheDude

Sorry to disappoint but Bill won't be able to touch Rolex QC at his price points.

I own a stainless ceramic GMT - among the first delivered in 2007. Aside from the polished center links, I think the watch overall looks more like the original than any others due to the glossy bezel (most like the bakelite).

I'm sure Bill could spec different manufacturing processes and materials in order to achieve the same or better quality, it's just not the product he wants to make.

The white gold - sadly the only way to get the Pepsi insert...










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Axelay2003

STEELINOX said:


> Noooo !
> 
> Bill should try and reproduce these "inconsistencies" of misaligned bezels, and date wheels - especially in PLANK orders !
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Who would like to reproduce the "misaligned bezels"? That would drive a lot of people crazy. At least it would me.


----------



## Axelay2003

mindaddy said:


> Sorry if this has been covered before (MK II noob here). I know this is the design thread but it seems to have the latest with respect to launch.
> 
> Like all of us, I'm eagerly awaiting my Key West but need to make some decisions in the mean time.
> 
> For those that went through this process with Kingston - how long, once it launched, did it make it out to non-plank owners?
> 
> If we're looking at Q1/Q2 for plank release (is this the best current guestimate?) - should I expect Q3, Q4, or even 2017?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Did you try contacting Mr. Yao? Figured I 'd go that route since no one has replied to your post.


----------



## powerband

Axelay2003 said:


> Who would like to reproduce the "misaligned bezels"? That would drive a lot of people crazy. At least it would me.


I believe it was said in jest. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

nguyen.hung.levis said:


> I am very happy to be in the list of buying GMT ^^


happy&#8230; and anxious


----------



## STEELINOX

powerband said:


> happy&#8230; and anxious


Me too, but for a few days I did have bouts of nite sweats, several periods of abdominal discontent, inability to reason frequently washed over me causing binge eating of buckets of rocky road ice cream...

But, now, I am fine.

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## tmoris

Anyone would happen to know if this or this could be used for the Mkii Panam?


----------



## Arthur

tmoris said:


> Anyone would happen to know if this or this could be used for the Mkii Panam?


It would depend entirely on the size of the bezel. These are designed for a Rolex 6542 bezel, which I believe is smaller than the Key West. It would be great if they fit. As that insert looks really nice.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Very doubtful. The recess on the bezel for an aluminum insert is much shallower then what would be needed for this. That and the size is almost certainly much smaller as these are meant as "OEM" replacement for the original case.


----------



## BigHaole

Thieuster said:


> Will there be a Christmas present waiting for us? In so many words: a Sneak Preview? I wouldn't mind seeing an assembled (case, crystal etc etc) KW on Christmas morning!


OK, so we missed Christmas, Boxing Day, and New Years...Maybe an MLK Day present? Plankholder decision day is fast approaching...


----------



## Aceldama

BigHaole said:


> OK, so we missed Christmas, Boxing Day, and New Years...Maybe an MLK Day present? Plankholder decision day is fast approaching...


I'm going to predict that by this date in 2017, we will all have our KeyWest's on our wrists...


----------



## gwold

*More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*

Posted two hours ago ...


----------



## powerband

But, Levis, that one was rejected! 

Justkidding. 

I love the open 9s and 6s, and the roulette color scheme!


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*



gwold said:


> Posted two hours ago ...
> 
> View attachment 6541530


This brings up an interesting question. Does the ETA movement have the date "jump" at midnight or is it a gradual change between 10:00 pm and 2:00 am?


----------



## timeturner7

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*



BigHaole said:


> This brings up an interesting question. Does the ETA movement have the date "jump" at midnight or is it a gradual change between 10:00 pm and 2:00 am?


From what I have read, it is a quick-change date at midnight. Someone asked this question on the same movement that is placed in the LRRP. https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/lrrp-eta-2893-2-question-273452.html

Sooooo excited for this watch to come together. Loving the open 6/9 and the roulette wheel.


----------



## curt941

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*



gwold said:


> Posted two hours ago ...
> 
> View attachment 6541530


That 4 though.....










Should have been flat top...


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*

All my MKIIs jump at 12 o'clock (oh well, the date wheel off course) Exactly, I may add!

Menno


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*



curt941 said:


> That 4 though.....
> 
> Should have been flat top...


I think this came up, many pages ago on this thread. Bill didn't want to use the exact same font, for legal or cost reasons, so no flat top 4s. Personally, I think the open 6s and 9s was most important, followed by the roulette colors. We got both of those!


----------



## POR901

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*

*2016-01-05: Project GMT Update*

January 5, 2016 By admin


We currently have enough date wheels for the first 200 watches. We will be starting a new batch of date wheels next week for the remaining 100 watches that have been spoken for. 
We plan to open up final model selection for the Plankowners by the end of next week.


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*



POR901 said:


> *2016-01-05: Project GMT Update*
> 
> January 5, 2016 By admin
> 
> 
> We currently have enough date wheels for the first 200 watches. We will be starting a new batch of date wheels next week for the remaining 100 watches that have been spoken for.
> We plan to open up final model selection for the Plankowners by the end of next week.


Can we get some images of pre-production models, before we make our selections?


----------



## 66Cooper

Wow, that's pretty great news. 
As it turns out, i was starting to second guess my black Pepsi pick that I had in my head. My wife was strangely interested in watches for a second (maybe a better way is to say she was humoring me) and she agreed on the black dial vs the white one when its combined with a Pepsi. She did really like the Kingston moby though.


----------



## Aceldama

*Re: More Teasing on IG: Date Wheel QC*

I wish I knew where on the pecking order I fall...



POR901 said:


> *2016-01-05: Project GMT Update*
> 
> January 5, 2016 By admin
> 
> 
> We currently have enough date wheels for the first 200 watches. We will be starting a new batch of date wheels next week for the remaining 100 watches that have been spoken for.
> We plan to open up final model selection for the Plankowners by the end of next week.


----------



## 66Cooper

What do you mean? If you look at your order form online, it should tell you what your status is. 
You writing that, got me wondering the same so I rechecked...just to be sure


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> What do you mean? If you look at your order form online, it should tell you what your status is.
> You writing that, got me wondering the same so I rechecked...just to be sure


OK, I'll bite. I'm looking at my order. How do I tell what my number in the queue is?


----------



## STEELINOX

[edited for content]


----------



## STEELINOX

[edited for content]


----------



## Aceldama

66Cooper said:


> What do you mean? If you look at your order form online, it should tell you what your status is.
> You writing that, got me wondering the same so I rechecked...just to be sure


More info please. Only thing I see is status: Awaiting Scheduling...


----------



## 66Cooper

Sorry, it will not tell you what number you are in the queue only what order group your in. Plank, general, like that.

A lesson learned from the Kingston, Bill shipped in the order he built NOT the order in which they were placed. To speed up the process, he built same-spec watches in groups. I don't think the KW will be as bad though given the fewer choices we have. The plank 1 Kingston orders had essentially two watches were of stuff to get right when you include the spares kit.


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> A lesson learned from the Kingston, Bill shipped in the order he built NOT the order in which they were placed.


Bill said that delivery would be in the order that orders were placed. Since there are only a few configuration options, I assume this will be easier to do.


----------



## POR901

Were final images of the pre-production Kingston models available prior to making the final selections?


----------



## timeturner7

Aceldama said:


> More info please. Only thing I see is status: Awaiting Scheduling...


I think it was something along the lines of 100 preorders, then 25 released per month (not really per month but roughly as planned) from around October 2014. Those month-or-so rounds of 25 added up to the 200 remaining watches (300 total for the project). For example, I paid deposit in November 2014, so I think I was in the first ~150.

I might have some facts wrong here, but there are way too many pages to read through again.


----------



## Chromejob

timeturner7 said:


> ... but there are way too many pages to read through again.


Gee I wonder why.

It's the *design* thread, folks. All the discussion of ordering, place in queue, et al, bloats the thread to the point of being useless.


----------



## Aceldama

Chromejob said:


> Gee I wonder why.
> 
> It's the *design* thread, folks. All the discussion of ordering, place in queue, et al, bloats the thread to the point of being useless.


I agree, but I think we are past the design phase at this point...


----------



## poisonwazthecure

Chromejob said:


> Gee I wonder why.
> 
> It's the *design* thread, folks. All the discussion of ordering, place in queue, et al, bloats the thread to the point of being useless.


Isn't the design complete?


----------



## Thieuster

Technically, it is. But this thread it built upon small pieces of the puzzle handed over by Bill. Still... there are major pieces missing: the ultimate case back design and -more important- the bezel! We haven't yet seen the piece de resistance.

On the other hand, we're drifting off from time to time because we're (in general) pretty excited about every atom of the KW. And, like sitting at the bar of your favorite hang out: we get carreid away from time to time. Luckily there's always one to snap us out of our dreams.

Menno


----------



## dwg

Thieuster said:


> Still... there are major pieces missing: the ultimate case back design and -more important- the bezel! We haven't yet seen the piece de resistance.
> Menno


The most important parts I'd say. Due to 2015 12 11 update, the case back could be revealed soon.

Do we know, what lume will be used for matte black dial? (I hope BG W9)


----------



## White Tuna

dwg said:


> The most important parts I'd say. Due to 2015 12 11 update, the case back could be revealed soon.
> 
> Do we know, what lume will be used for matte black dial? (I hope BG W9)


I am assuming BGW9 for the black dials.


----------



## BigHaole

Is the lack of shared images of the caseback, the bezel, etc an indication that a surprise is coming our way or is it just a lack of communication? I'm hoping the former (surprise sapphire bezel!)


----------



## Flip.willy

The pieces that are missing are yet to be revealed, but not yet to be decided, right? Bill picked the case back and the bezel colors we just haven't seen them. From the last update it sounded like he is about to start production, which is very exciting. Keep waiting for that first glimpse of an assembled piece. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

My Choice !








Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## celtics1984

Paid for my slot at the end of June. Wondering if I will make the first 200 watches made.


----------



## powerband

STEELINOX said:


> My Choice !
> View attachment 6637786
> 
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Like that on the Kingston, looks like the gold on the KW will sparkle immensely! That's something from which major brands attempting gilt can learn. *coughTudorBlackBaycough*

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## supersmitty

Thieuster said:


> We haven't yet seen the piece de resistance.
> Menno


I found the piece of resistance!!


----------



## STEELINOX

In case ya missed it !








https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatches/?fref=photo


----------



## 66Cooper




----------



## powerband

I can't get enough of the sparkling gilt that MKII knows how to make so darn well. Gilt black dial for me. Catching the ray from a sunset will be fun.


----------



## Arthur

Not sure about the photo, but the caption, "paperwork today, setting up the ordering system for the MKII project GMT plank owners******" is really good news.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Packleader

STEELINOX said:


> In case ya missed it !
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatches/?fref=photo


That's exciting news! Despite the amount of time that's passed, we always manage to keep this thread interesting.

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> Not sure about the photo, but the caption, "paperwork today, setting up the ordering system for the MKII project GMT plank owners******" is really good news.


Could Bill take 5 minutes to set up a few shots of fully assembled samples, so we plank owners can know what we're ordering, before we order it? Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that the end of the rainbow is approaching, but why can't our approach be a little more friendly?


----------



## Aceldama

Hmm. I was expecting some old-school Edison bulbs...



STEELINOX said:


> In case ya missed it !
> View attachment 6656818
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatches/?fref=photo


----------



## STEELINOX

Aceldama said:


> Hmm. I was expecting some old-school Edison bulbs...


Really? 
I sure did not...

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## Packleader

Arthur said:


> Not sure about the photo, but the caption, "paperwork today, setting up the ordering system for the MKII project GMT plank owners******" is really good news.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Until I saw that caption, I didn't think there was any ordering or selecting left to be done. Now I'm curious....

Best,
Packleader


----------



## Eurypylus

Will the movement have the fast set main hour hands function?


----------



## BigHaole

Packleader said:


> Until I saw that caption, I didn't think there was any ordering or selecting left to be done. Now I'm curious....
> 
> Best,
> Packleader


We need to select our dial and bezel choices.


----------



## curt941

So the choices are:

Dial Color: Black or White
If Black - gilt or no-gilt
Lume color? BGW9 or C3
Bezel - blue/red or black/red

Is that everything?


----------



## JFingers

curt941 said:


> So the choices are:
> 
> Dial Color: Black or White
> If Black - gilt or no-gilt
> Lume color? BGW9 or C3
> Bezel - blue/red or black/red
> 
> Is that everything?


I didn't think we would get the choice of lume color, I was under the impression that each dial already had a specific lume associated with it.


----------



## BigHaole

curt941 said:


> So the choices are:
> 
> Dial Color: Black or White
> If Black - gilt or no-gilt
> Lume color? BGW9 or C3
> Bezel - blue/red or black/red
> 
> Is that everything?


Choices are black dial vs white dial, gilt vs no gilt (available on both dials) and blue/red vs black/red bezel. It's my understanding, as well, that the lume is not a choice, it goes with the dial color.


----------



## Packleader

BigHaole said:


> Choices are black dial vs white dial, gilt vs no gilt (available on both dials) and blue/red vs black/red bezel. It's my understanding, as well, that the lume is not a choice, it goes with the dial color.


I wonder what will be the most popular choices. Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## 66Cooper

That sounds about right. Bill slimmed down things by not allowing the lume choice. I'm big on c3 and I fear the black gilt will have bgw9 but I guess "them the ropes". I'm a big boy though. I'll just have to get over it


----------



## Calibrel

I can live without knowing bezel specifics (the longer Bill holds out, the more I buy into the "we have a surprise sapphire" hypothesis) since I know the color, but not knowing the case back is driving me crazy.


----------



## dwg

Packleader said:


> I wonder what will be the most popular choices. Any thoughts?
> 
> Cheers,
> Packleader


pepsi + black gilt most likely.

My favourite is still pepsi, non gilt black dial. Clean and less retro.


----------



## STEELINOX

Calibrel said:


> I can live without knowing bezel specifics (the longer Bill holds out, the more I buy into the "we have a surprise sapphire" hypothesis) since I know the color, but not knowing the case back is driving me crazy.


"Sapphired spinning bezel," uhhh maybe, wait








Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

This 239th page of posts "sponsored" by 
"Mister Bubble" for clean fun in horology !

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

66Cooper said:


>


I thought maybe there's a cadaver under there somewhere.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Packleader

I'm thinking coke bezel, gilt, black dial. But I'm not sure yet. 

Best,
Packleader


----------



## Aceldama

White gilt with a Pepsi bezel, or matte with a Coke. I'm still wondering what will be left when it's my turn to choose, but I figure I will get one of those two choices. I've got the black gilt covered with my Kingston.

This will have to do while I wait...










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

Eurypylus said:


> Will the movement have the fast set main hour hands function?


No, this is and ETA 2893-2. The GMT hand is settable, not the hour hand like the later model Rolex watches. Advantage of the Rolex, the hour hand resets forward or back, disadvantage you lose the quickset date. The ETA 2893-2 advantage is date is quickset, disadvantage, the GMT hand advances forward but not backwards like the Rolex.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

powerband said:


> I thought maybe there's a cadaver under there somewhere.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


You mean Project 300? What? Too soon?


----------



## BigHaole

STEELINOX said:


> "Sapphired spinning bezel," uhhh maybe, wait
> View attachment 6668170
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


If it's not a surprise sapphire bezel, how do you explain why Bill hasn't shown us any images of an assembled KeyWest? The more I think about it, the more I believe the rumor!


----------



## BigHaole

Aceldama said:


> White gilt with a Pepsi bezel, or matte with a Coke. I'm still wondering what will be left when it's my turn to choose, but I figure I will get one of those two choices. I've got the black gilt covered with my Kingston.
> 
> This will have to do while I wait...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where did you get that KeyWest knockoff?


----------



## JPMIA

Brilliant !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## goyoneuff

Best post ever in a long time !!!


BigHaole said:


> Where did you get that KeyWest knockoff?


----------



## Calibrel

Pepsi and black gilt for me!


----------



## STEELINOX

You all just soak up those black gilt dialed KWs, that way, I can buy up a few of them "lesser liked" gilted whites, and increase their values !









Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## 66Cooper

Ha! Should that post be over in that price speculating thread??


----------



## mtbmike

:-!:-!:-!

latest update.........._*as we get closer to beginning the delivery phase that tension is beginning to build. *_


----------



## Toiyabe

Posted on Facebook today:


> A brief update to note that an update is coming soon. I have spent the last 3 days working on the logistics for the Project GMT deliveries. I was hoping to have this finalized by today, or at least the rough plan, so that I could post it here. However between security updates to the E-boutique, drafting all of the announcements, and configuring the E-boutique for the new products here we are at 6 pm on Friday afternoon with a lot almost ready but not quite finished. We are still trying to tie down small things such as updating the artwork on the E-boutique for the watches so that it explicitly notes the color of the bezel and the dial. Depending on your computer monitor the blue can be nearly impossible to distinguish between the black unless you have both pictures side by side, which you won't have the luxury of doing when ordering. I will be in the shop this weekend but to work on QC instead of the logistics. So we hope to have everything published before Wednesday Jan. 20th, 2016. Thanks to everyone for their continuing patience. I can only imagine that as we get closer to beginning the delivery phase that tension is beginning to build.


----------



## powerband

My dog just tinkled a little on the floor.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

AWESOME!!! I'm super excited to hear the blue is that dark. Sounds brilliant.


----------



## TheTitusFactor

Anyone else notice how the aluminum bezel insert has been crossed off? We are definitely in for a surprise...


----------



## BigHaole

TheTitusFactor said:


> Anyone else notice how the aluminum bezel insert has been crossed off? We are definitely in for a surprise...


While I really love that the aluminum bezel is crossed off (if you believe it hard enough, it will come true!), I'm a little perplexed by the crossed off GMT hand. Did the KeyWest just become the Moby Kingston???


----------



## Calibrel

I speculate that the GMT was crossed out because it had said it was exclusive to the limited edition, which I believe has already determined to not be true. 

Insert could be the same reason... Or another clue to the surprise.


----------



## Packleader

The latest update:

2016-01-15: Project GMT Update (brief)

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## STEELINOX

Packleader said:


> The latest update:
> 
> 2016-01-15: Project GMT Update (brief)
> 
> Cheers,
> Packleader


I'm giddy for Wednesday - it'll be like, "oh, I missed one more present under the tree!"
















Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## dwg

White Tuna said:


> I am assuming BGW9 for the black dials.


I'd certainly prefer BGW9, especially for non gilt.

I guess we also find out on Wednesday, if blank caseback design is optional for the purists, or not.

It would be also nice to know, if there will be another GMT watch (like nassau after kingston) and if yes, what would be the specs.


----------



## 66Cooper

I too am interested if there will be a general run of gmts. I assume there will be much like the Kingston had. Non-gilt, and with a different bezel option and no special case back. Guess we will (very) SOO find out. These are good days ahead


----------



## fastfras

powerband said:


> My dog just tinkled a little on the floor.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


John, stop blaming your dog...


----------



## powerband

fastfras said:


> John, stop blaming your dog...


Busted. I need a diaper for these announcements.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## dwg

66Cooper said:


> I too am interested if there will be a general run of gmts. I assume there will be much like the Kingston had. Non-gilt, and with a different bezel option and no special case back. Guess we will (very) SOO find out. These are good days ahead


That is exactly , why I'd like to know, because that could be a reason, why avoid the non gilt.

But with all these variants, I actually don't see much room for Bill to change specs for the general run. (unless he goes all black bezel, black/blue bezel, white dial with black lines, or something crazy


----------



## fastfras

dwg said:


> That is exactly , why I'd like to know, because that could be a reason, why avoid the non gilt.
> 
> But with all these variants, I actually don't see much room for Bill to change specs for the general run. (unless he goes all black bezel, black/blue bezel, white dial with black lines, or something crazy


All this talk makes me want one even more... *salivating over the prospect*


----------



## Aceldama

I'm expecting a general run with matte dials with maybe all black bezels. Keep the LE special...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STEELINOX

dwg said:


> That is exactly , why I'd like to know, because that could be a reason, why avoid the non gilt.
> 
> But with all these variants, I actually don't see much room for Bill to change specs for the general run. (unless he goes all black bezel, black/blue bezel, white dial with black lines, or something crazy


I never even thought there culd be "The BATMAN" variant, that wuld be too cool too !












Malyel said:


> Thanks, just sharing my design suggestions.


Remember this about dials and the "glow insert..."



Yao said:


> For the time being I would suggest just pretending the watch has only two colors, black and white. By which I mean that we should focus getting the elements and shape correct. The colors can be decided later. However I would say that a black dial and a white dial will be a given. Anything more than that we will have to decide later. I am weary of giving people "kits" that they can supposedly install themselves as it always comes back to me with either A) a request to fix something that is busted or for B) "tutorials" which leads back to scenario "A" except now I am responsible for creating the problem in the first place. So if a third color becomes an option it will have to mean a surcharge for those customers that want it but the pricing for everyone else that is happy with a black or white dial will have to stay the same (i.e. we can't amortize the cost of a brown dial amongst everyone).
> 
> So get your black turtleneck out and pretend you are an architect and can only see in black and white.





Yao said:


> I spent some time with one of my suppliers talking about the possibility of a lumed sapphire bezel for the Project GMT. Unfortunately I think based on the construction of the Project GMT as it is and with its size constraints this option is DOA. My case supplier did mention the possibility of using acrylic so that may be our last and best hope at this point (did you hear that Charlie!).....BUT this is still a long shot so don't get too excited. We will have to explore this option after the dials and inserts are production. An acrylic option would have to tacked on at the end.
> 
> We will resume work on the dial shortly.


Also, this regarding the general release...



Yao said:


> Our ability to built more Project GMT's is basically constrained by the supply of 2893s. Soprod has an alternative but it is expensive. So if we ever do a "general" release of this watch by default it will have to be more expensive than the Project GMT will be. The price of the Project GMT movements have already been fixed so there is no change there.


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## BigHaole

If you go back to the first post on this thread (a great post, IMHO), it was proposed that the Generally Available version should be "cigar colored" and named the Havana. Dark, dark brown, matte face, "aged" lume, etc.


----------



## 66Cooper

I always thought that sounded more like a limited run then a general order. Not that bill said that but just that there would be a MUCH more limited amount of people interested in a dark brown (root beer) style GMT. Typical of what Rolex sales experienced with theirs.


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> I always thought that sounded more like a limited run then a general order. Not that bill said that but just that there would be a MUCH more limited amount of people interested in a dark brown (root beer) style GMT. Typical of what Rolex sales experienced with theirs.


Remember, Rolex did it as a 2-Tone gold/steel or all gold watch, which is in a different price point.


----------



## 66Cooper

Good point


----------



## Eric90

I think that the Non LE watches will have Matte Dials because the project page states that the Black & Gold and White & Gold dials are for the project/LE watches only.

Also that there will be an aluminum bezel for the project/LE which will be shared by any non LE watches produced in the future, thus why this is crossed out on the project page along with the GMT hand (these parts would be shared with any future watches). Speculating only here..


----------



## Aceldama

I guess it's official. Love it!


----------



## 66Cooper

Hey, I'll take it!!


----------



## dwg

"we felt that a design on the case back was in keeping with the limited edition nature of the project and spirit of the reference design"

I can understand that, but is it really worth it? To me it takes away from the watch. It's not really good and I feel like it's there just for the sake of having some caseback design.


----------



## dwg

Another thing I don't get is the placement of the design - it seems like the axis of the plane goes almost through the center of the case, but slightly off, which catches my eye.








To be honest - I'm against any case back designs of any sort (as they all look silly to me), so I may be biased, but will all respect - this does not look like pursuit of perfection to me.


----------



## Darwin

To each his or her own. Like you, I'd be happiest with a sterile caseback but this works for me. It's a 2-D line rendering of something will be inscribed into the back of a mirror-like piece of stainless steel - I'm sure it will "pop" in the steel. Re: placement, I think having it slightly off centre works better than having it perfectly centred - having it off-centre slightly makes it more visually interesting which catches the eye. Oh, wait a minute! Accomplished! Finally, having owned 6 MKII watches and having had the privilege of handling several more, I can assure you that not only does Bill pursue perfection, he builds upon it. Each watch he produces incorporates everything he's learned up that point...



dwg said:


> Another thing I don't get is the placement of the design - it seems like the axis of the plane goes almost through the center of the case, but slightly off, which catches my eye.
> 
> View attachment 6732586
> 
> To be honest - I'm against any case back designs of any sort (as they all look silly to me), so I may be biased, but will all respect - this does not look like pursuit of perfection to me.


----------



## 66Cooper

Something to note, they won't all be positioned like this. They will go whatever direction the case back ends up being tightened too.


----------



## e dantes

The case back design looks good to me. As others said when the original design was released, the four engine plane reminds me of the early jet era. (Or what I have seen of it in classic movies and at air museums.) 

I understand it will not be to everyone's liking. It is impossible to get all to agree. Hopefully the case back is all you don't like. Luckily you can just keep the Key West on your wrist. Problem solved.


----------



## POR901

IMO, the case back is acceptable.....but I'm more interested in seeing live photos of the front.....


----------



## e dantes

The part I did not like was XXX/399. Did the number being produced go up? Or is this a test if we are paying attention to detail?


----------



## Arthur

e dantes said:


> The part I did not like was XXX/399. Did the number being produced go up? Or is this a test if we are paying attention to detail?


I believe that was just a number, no significance at all relative to the actual number of watches. Remember this watch is being limited in large part by the movements, or lack thereof. Bill stated that quite a while back that he had enough 2893-2 movements for 300 watches. Replacing the ETA with a Soprod movement would raise the price considerably, which he wasn't interested in doing.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tomr

e dantes said:


> The part I did not like was XXX/399. Did the number being produced go up? Or is this a test if we are paying attention to detail?


I like the design, but also am hoping, along with other plank holders, that we will see some photos of the prototypes or the first assembled watches prior to having to commit to a specific configuration.

I also concur with the question regarding the serial number example, as it clearly states on the MKII web site that GMT will be limited to a "total of 250 pieces".


----------



## STEELINOX

Arthur said:


> I believe that was just a number, no significance at all relative to the actual number of watches. Remember this watch is being limited in large part by the movements, or lack thereof. Bill stated that quite a while back that he had enough 2893-2 movements for 300 watches. Replacing the ETA with a Soprod movement would raise the price considerably, which he wasn't interested in doing.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Actually, this is what was stated regarding the "general" release...



Yao said:


> Our ability to built more Project GMT's is basically constrained by the supply of 2893s. Soprod has an alternative but it is expensive. So if we ever do a "general" release of this watch by default it will have to be more expensive than the Project GMT will be. The price of the Project GMT movements have already been fixed so there is no change there.


And...



Yao said:


> There will be about 300 watches and only about 60-70 are spoken for right now. I haven't figured out how to release the remaining spots yet.


----------



## Uly

Per News last June:

June 18, 2015.By.admin

Project Updates:

The total quantity of Project GMT watches will be between 350 and 400 pieces. The reason for the range is that it will depend upon how many good cases come from the inspection process.The 2nd stage pre-order will allocate the 350 pieces (This includes the Plankowners and the 2nd stage pre-0rders to date). If we have more than 350 pieces available the last 50 pieces will be sold through the General Ordering process.



Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## e dantes

Thank you for the quick replies. I had forgotten how many different numbers had been given out during the process. I am just happy to be on the list no matter what the final total is.


----------



## dwg

e dantes said:


> The case back design looks good to me. As others said when the original design was released, the four engine plane reminds me of the early jet era. (Or what I have seen of it in classic movies and at air museums.)
> 
> I understand it will not be to everyone's liking. It is impossible to get all to agree. Hopefully the case back is all you don't like. Luckily you can just keep the Key West on your wrist. Problem solved.


I know, but it is still there and you know it. It's like saying you don't mind quartz movement instead, as it looks the same on your wrist.

If it's clear, that it will not be to everyone's liking, why not make it optional?


----------



## 66Cooper

Nothing will be to everyones liking. Adding this as an option would be a nightmare for Bill, especially when custom serial numbers are requested. 

In the end, its Bills company and Bills choice. Just buy a Rolex hologram-like sticker and put it over it;-)


----------



## Thieuster

Am I alone when I say that I've got the feeling that we're about to experience an avalanche of news, pics, information, euphoric moments and sheer joy!?? Gentlemen, are we on the threshold of ownership, owning and wearing a KW?

Menno


----------



## 66Cooper

I was thinking the exact same thing!!


----------



## celtics1984

I think this is new on the site: * GMT hand (Whether this part is limited to the LE is dependent upon final design of the hand – The GMT hand will not be an LE part)
* Aluminum insert design (LE only)


----------



## 66Cooper

The insert is in reference to the color of the insert I believe. GMT hand was listed like that because at the time, bill was not sure if there would be a regular model (similar to the Nassau) to the MKII lineup.


----------



## Axelay2003

66Cooper said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing!!


Ditto.


----------



## Axelay2003

It looks like the project is coming along.


----------



## Arthur

I have a strong feeling that it is just around the corner. Gonna be lots of traffic around here pretty soon I'm thinking!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jellytime

Exciting. I think I'm pretty far down the list of pre-orders so I still got a long wait.

I would have preferred something else on the case back but I can live with that design. It looks better with just the two contrails. Big fan of case back design. It's a shame Bill couldn't get Steelinox design to work.


----------



## 66Cooper

Dont worry! Just gives you longer to collected more strap and bracelet options.


----------



## Yellowdrive

CALLED IT! Just sayin'...



Yellowdrive said:


> This is crazy of me to mess with, but I can't help myself. What if it was just the two lines?
> 
> View attachment 5162034


----------



## Pentameter

damn


----------



## 66Cooper

So, it's 7pm in bills shop. I guess updates will have to wait till tomorrow?


----------



## timeturner7

66Cooper said:


> So, it's 7pm in bills shop. I guess updates will have to wait till tomorrow?


Well I'm staying online tonight and hitting refresh. Cannot wait to see the bezel and possibly a completed watch shot or 6.


----------



## powerband

Thieuster said:


> Am I alone when I say that I've got the feeling that we're about to experience an avalanche of news, pics, information, euphoric moments and sheer joy!?? Gentlemen, are we on the threshold of ownership, owning and wearing a KW?
> 
> Menno


Your post is like a shot of adrenaline.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Plat0

I like the case back. 

Nothing to else to add.


----------



## 66Cooper

I too am getting extremely excited. So much so that I have already started the hunt for accessories for my new friend. Just spoke with one of the major strap companies anoint making a NATO in proper midnight blue to go with the Pepsi bezel. I have yet to find one that isn't too "bright" for my taste. Might start a tread (like we did for the Kingston) all about people's straps they are planning for the KW


----------



## Flip.willy

Love the idea of a strap thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## POR901

Here's an image to wet everyone's appetite while we're waiting....


----------



## CBM_DOC

Thieuster said:


> Am I alone when I say that I've got the feeling that we're about to experience an avalanche of news, pics, information, euphoric moments and sheer joy!?? Gentlemen, are we on the threshold of ownership, owning and wearing a KW?
> 
> Menno


You are not alone. Believe me, there are many of us out here wondering.

Dave


----------



## BigHaole

I would like to point out how much you all suck! I wasn't able to look at this thread all day. When I came in and saw 3 new pages, I thought there had to be pictures of an assembled KW. Instead, 3 pages of you all talking about how we expect pictures to show up "any moment now". Thanks! ;-)

Now back to waiting...b-)


----------



## 66Cooper

Yeah, sorry about that man.


----------



## STEELINOX

[edited for content - again]


----------



## powerband

Since the start of this Key West journey, has any of you changed your mind from one configuration to another?

I know many have not made the final decision, but surely many have an idea that changed from one configuration to another?


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

I have!! And still am. I wrote a few pages back about how I was relieved when my wife said she preferred the black dial to the white as that was the way I was leaning. I know the white dial is more special and "rare" then the black but I used to own a GMT master II and miss it so. Black dial is just so classic and timeless with the Pepsi bezel....in my eyes. 
Well, my wife suddenly changed her mind and is liking the white dial. Making kind of as well. I remember I was the same way with the Kingston. Damn you bill and all these amazing options!!


----------



## e dantes

I was late to the process but have changed my mind numerous times. Due partially to my problems with electronic devices, I have two on order. Best mistake in months. White gilt is definite. But I am cannot decide between the matte black or the black gilt. I have a matte black Steinhart 39mm GMT with a Pepsi bezel. So if I get matte black, I will go with a Coke bezel for that and a Pepsi bezel for the white. Not sure on the bezels if I go for the gilt. A final decision for me cannot happen until I see photos. I would love to see a gilt Key West or gilt Kingston in person to be sure. I have changed my mind several times while typing this. It's too much pressure!


----------



## STEELINOX

powerband said:


> Since the start of this Key West journey, has any of you changed your mind from one configuration to another?
> 
> I know many have not made the final decision, but surely many have an idea that changed from one configuration to another?
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Sight unseen and with total confidence in that Im "all in" with a white gilt "White Knight" with pepsi insert with a glass of this too- neat, hold the furniture, err fruit !


----------



## BigHaole

STEELINOX said:


> Sight unseen and with total confidence in that Im "all in" with a white gilt "White Knight" with pepsi insert with a glass of this too- neat, hold the furniture, err fruit !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, that's a big glass. Looks like you're drinking out of a fish bowl.


----------



## BigHaole

powerband said:


> Since the start of this Key West journey, has any of you changed your mind from one configuration to another?


In the beginning, I was sure I wanted the white dial. Now, I'm thinking black dial with gilt and pepsi bezel (with the coke as my spare)


----------



## powerband

Nice.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Outside of the plank orders, will there be bezel insert availability for spare or alternatives?


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Nope.


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> STEELINOX said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sight unseen and with total confidence in that Im "all in" with a white gilt "White Knight" with pepsi insert with a glass of this too- neat, hold the furniture, err fruit !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, that's a big glass. Looks like you're drinking out of a fish bowl.
> 
> 
> 
> Small bottle makes a glass look bigger!!
> My choice has been and will remain the White Dial/ Gilt / Pepsi Insert. Easy choice for me.
> Just hoping the insert is dark blue and dark red like the original Bakelite inserts were.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## Packleader

Oh, the pressure! I'm still undecided. Ever since it was clear that there would be no root beer configuration, I've postponed my decision on the other options...

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## 66Cooper

Bill did say that the blue was so dark it may appear black on some monitors. Sounds perfect.


----------



## timeturner7

powerband said:


> Since the start of this Key West journey, has any of you changed your mind from one configuration to another?


While I am pretty certain on a white dial pepsi and a black gilt coke, I keep staring at the 6 options and second guessing myself.
My thinking is:
- White dial will be amazing and I think it looks better matched with pepsi
- I have a 16750 pepsi, so the non-gilt black dial pepsi is already covered and I won't go for that option
- I have always wanted a coke and I think a gilt mkii is a requirement in anybody's collection. I have never seen a kingston in person, but oh my does that gilt look spectacular

Can't wait for pictures of actual watches. This could be the turning point for many of us I feel.


----------



## Aceldama

Now that a gloss dial Pepsi GMT jumped onto my wrist, my choice is clear: White gilt pepsi or matte Coke...


----------



## celtics1984

I have not changed my mind since I placed my order. (Black gilt Pepsi insert) I like also that Bill mentioned the Pepsi insert will be darker in color.


----------



## POR901

Updates.....

2016-01-22: Project GMT Update

Its been a looonnnngggg week full of admin work and server updates. The detailed announcement and Plankowner ordering emails are ready to go out. Unfortunately there is a large winter storm coming in tonight. Normally with these kinds of storms we lose power and hence contact with the electronic world. So assuming that we aren't too worse off after the storm and that the USPS doesn't update their API again, we will be sending out the emails and posting the update on Monday January 25. This way we should be online and available to answer any questions or deal with any software glitches that might arise.


----------



## powerband

"Detailed announcement."

The tension is building!


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

That's exciting!!'


----------



## STEELINOX

Meh, you heard one announcement, stop yer twitchin lika schoolgirl !


----------



## powerband

STEELINOX said:


> Meh, you heard one announcement, stop yer twitchin lika schoolgirl !


No twitch. Just a little pee pee.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

I can't tell if this flow of information (i.e., lack there of) is lousy customer service or brilliant marketing, building hype.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> I can't tell if this flow of information (i.e., lack there of) is lousy customer service or brilliant marketing, building hype.


 Does it 'Really' matter?? ;-)

Now...






But; Soon -









--- Best ---


----------



## Flip.willy

Anyone else dying of anticipation?? Have the plank holders heard anything yet or are we potentially looking at a snow delay?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

These updates go out on his site and FB so we are all in the same boat...waiting patiently...or at least thats what I keep telling myself.


----------



## JFingers

Update available!

Edit: Update Link here

Edit to edit: First group of the second stage pre-orders! Woohoo! Happy dance! Happy dance! Thankfully no "accidents" on the floor. Yet.


----------



## 66Cooper

2016-01-25: Project GMT Updates

January 25, 2016 By admin


The following are important updates, clarifications, and explanations regarding the Key West GMT (aka Project GMT) process going forward.


*Pre-order slots still available:* The last group of slots will be made available this month. After that the wait list will be used to fill any cancellations that we receive and for the General Ordering.
*General Ordering:* There are 50 watches reserved for the General Order. The availability of these watches will be determined once we are certain that there are enough parts to fill all of the Plankowner and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Pre-Order customer orders. We expect that this will be around Q4 of 2016. To sign up for the mailing list please click here.
*Delivery timetable:*
We finally have enough parts on hand to begin assembly. If the bezel inlays are delivered on-time (late February) and pass our QC we expect that shipments will start in April 2016 (we will be traveling for Baselworld 2016 for part of March)
Important notes:
We are performing all of the QC, assembly and final testing here in the USA. We are building the watches as the orders are submitted. This allows us the most control over the quality of the final piece and the delivery schedule.
We will maximize the probability that everyone's first choice is accommodated by re-ordering the dials and hands, if necessary, based on how the final selections shape up.
After the bezel inlays arrive we will be able to update the E-boutique with actual photos of the Key West GMT watches.
Matte black dial option: The dials are expected to be delivered at the end of March 2016. So please note that if you want this version of the Key West there will be a slight delay and that we will begin filling your order as soon as the parts are QC'd and ready.
Our goal is to deliver all of the Key West watches by the end of 2016.

_Plankowners:_ You will receive an email by Tuesday January 26th with the details for making your final watch selections. (Update: Email has been sent!)
_2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Stage Pre-order Customers:_ We have organized the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] stage pre-order customers into 10 groups (see the chart at the bottom of this page). Beginning February 2016 we will be sending out an email asking the first group of 30 customers to submit their final selections and payments. Our plan is to ask 1-2 groups per month for their final watch selections based on the pace of shipments. The reasons for this process is:
1) Staging the final selections should allow us to minimize the lead time between final order submission and shipment (approximately 2-4 months.)
2) This process should also allow us enough advanced notice to re-order parts, if necessary, so that we can minimize disruption to the delivery schedule and maximize the chances that everyone gets their first choice.


*Important announcements:*
Bezel: The bezel will be a 48 click unidirectional bezel. Based on a number of our tests the bi-directional bezel is too difficult to turn. We had successfully used this exact construction in the past. The bidirectional spring did not perform as expected because of the smaller size and profile of the Key West bezel. While it has been explored, redesigning the spring or employing an alternative construction is not a realistic option. The unidirectional spring offers a high quality feel and performs just as well as the Kingston and Nassau bezels but with 48 clicks instead of 60.
Dial: The black & gold and white & gold dials will be LE-only. Please note that while we have no plans to do so, if we issue a non-LE version of the Key West that we will be using a matte black and white print dial without the "Key West GMT" name. This is the same deal as with the Kingston and Nassau.
GMT hand: It was noted earlier on the Project GMT summary page that the hand might be a feature used only on the LE. We would like to clarify that this will not be an LE-only part. We didn't feel that it added any value to the project by making this part an LE-exclusive. Similarly we didn't feel that it deducts any value from the LE nature of the project. It's important to reiterate that there are no plans at this time to offer a non-LE version of the Key West GMT.


----------



## 66Cooper

Sorry, Repost


----------



## POR901

*2016-01-25: Project GMT Updates*

January 25, 2016 By admin 
The following are important updates, clarifications, and explanations regarding the Key West GMT (aka Project GMT) process going forward.


*Pre-order slots still available:* The last group of slots will be made available this month. After that the wait list will be used to fill any cancellations that we receive and for the General Ordering. 
*General Ordering:* There are 50 watches reserved for the General Order. The availability of these watches will be determined once we are certain that there are enough parts to fill all of the Plankowner and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Pre-Order customer orders. We expect that this will be around Q4 of 2016. To sign up for the mailing list please click here. 
*Delivery timetable:*
We finally have enough parts on hand to begin assembly. If the bezel inlays are delivered on-time (late February) and pass our QC we expect that shipments will start in April 2016 (we will be traveling for Baselworld 2016 for part of March) 
Important notes:
We are performing all of the QC, assembly and final testing here in the USA. We are building the watches as the orders are submitted. This allows us the most control over the quality of the final piece and the delivery schedule. 
We will maximize the probability that everyone's first choice is accommodated by re-ordering the dials and hands, if necessary, based on how the final selections shape up. 
After the bezel inlays arrive we will be able to update the E-boutique with actual photos of the Key West GMT watches. 
Matte black dial option: The dials are expected to be delivered at the end of March 2016. So please note that if you want this version of the Key West there will be a slight delay and that we will begin filling your order as soon as the parts are QC'd and ready. 
Our goal is to deliver all of the Key West watches by the end of 2016. 

_Plankowners:_ You will receive an email by Tuesday January 26th with the details for making your final watch selections. (Update: Email has been sent!) 
_2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Stage Pre-order Customers:_ We have organized the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] stage pre-order customers into 10 groups (see the chart at the bottom of this page). Beginning February 2016 we will be sending out an email asking the first group of 30 customers to submit their final selections and payments. Our plan is to ask 1-2 groups per month for their final watch selections based on the pace of shipments. The reasons for this process is:
1) Staging the final selections should allow us to minimize the lead time between final order submission and shipment (approximately 2-4 months.) 
2) This process should also allow us enough advanced notice to re-order parts, if necessary, so that we can minimize disruption to the delivery schedule and maximize the chances that everyone gets their first choice. 


*Important announcements:*
Bezel: The bezel will be a 48 click unidirectional bezel. Based on a number of our tests the bi-directional bezel is too difficult to turn. We had successfully used this exact construction in the past. The bidirectional spring did not perform as expected because of the smaller size and profile of the Key West bezel. While it has been explored, redesigning the spring or employing an alternative construction is not a realistic option. The unidirectional spring offers a high quality feel and performs just as well as the Kingston and Nassau bezels but with 48 clicks instead of 60. 
Dial: The black & gold and white & gold dials will be LE-only. Please note that while we have no plans to do so, if we issue a non-LE version of the Key West that we will be using a matte black and white print dial without the "Key West GMT" name. This is the same deal as with the Kingston and Nassau. 
GMT hand: It was noted earlier on the Project GMT summary page that the hand might be a feature used only on the LE. We would like to clarify that this will not be an LE-only part. We didn't feel that it added any value to the project by making this part an LE-exclusive. Similarly we didn't feel that it deducts any value from the LE nature of the project. It's important to reiterate that there are no plans at this time to offer a non-LE version of the Key West GMT.


----------



## Jellytime

Exciting update. I seem to fall in group 5. So not as bad as I thought.


----------



## curt941

I've got one order in group 3 and one in group 4


----------



## d88

Just got the e-mail myself. Looks like I'm 2nd group, stage 1, so happy days for me. Now it's trying to confirm my dial selection. I thought I was set on the pepsi black/gold dial but now I'm thinking about the white/gold dial so it might come down to the last minute when the actual pictures of each watch are posted.

Good news though, now we can see the end in sight and soon a raft of Key West's will be on an owner's wrist's for real.

Edit. I wonder if Bill will torture us by wearing the Key West to Basel World and posting lots of gratuitous pictures of this heinous act ?


----------



## Aceldama

Also Group 5! Decision 2015 begins...


----------



## Arthur

Plank owner, got the order email and ordered!! White/Gilt, Pepsi insert. Looks like things are starting to pick up speed. From Bill's update, looks like the first Key Wests will be going out in April provided the inserts pass muster. Happy Days are Here Again!!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## timeturner7

Group 2 woohoo!


----------



## Elf1962

Group 2 here!!


----------



## Packleader

Arthur said:


> Plank owner, got the order email and ordered!! White/Gilt, Pepsi insert. Looks like things are starting to pick up speed. From Bill's update, looks like the first Key Wests will be going out in April provided the inserts pass muster. Happy Days are Here Again!!!!


Exciting news!

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## POR901

Great news......but I'd still like to see what these look like in the flesh before I decide which one to order. Being a plank owner I guess that's not going to happen......


----------



## Darwin

d88 said:


> I wonder if Bill will torture us by wearing the Key West to Basel World and posting lots of gratuitous pictures of this heinous act ?


My God I hope so.


----------



## TheMeasure

> Bezel: The bezel will be a 48 click unidirectional bezel. Based on a number of our tests the bi-directional bezel is too difficult to turn. We had successfully used this exact construction in the past. The bidirectional spring did not perform as expected because of the smaller size and profile of the Key West bezel. While it has been explored, redesigning the spring or employing an alternative construction is not a realistic option. The unidirectional spring offers a high quality feel and performs just as well as the Kingston and Nassau bezels but with 48 clicks instead of 60.


it's too bad the bi-directional bezel didn't make the cut :-(.

but it still be an awesome watch..super exciting news here!!


----------



## Jellytime

POR901 said:


> Great news......but I'd still like to see what these look like in the flesh before I decide which one to order. Being a plank owner I guess that's not going to happen......


We can trade spots if you want? Haha.


----------



## Thieuster

Perhaps it's best to open a new 'general' thread about the latest development. And keep this thread focussed on the initial purpose: design.

Menno


----------



## Chromejob

Aside from text descriptions, it appears that actually SEEING the bezel inserts (Pepsi, Coke) will have to wait ... which is sort of a "big, wow finish" as Bogart put it in (drum roll) _Casablanca_. I trust Bill. If it passes his QC it'll impress us all.

Bi-directional bezel ... if the bezel spring is fragile, yours will be bi-directional within a year. Just keep spinning it to time your jog, coffee, poached eggs, wife's contractions.


----------



## BigHaole

Thieuster said:


> Perhaps it's best to open a new 'general' thread about the latest development. And keep this thread focussed on the initial purpose: design.


If they're assembling and shipping watches, do we really need to worry about polluting the design thread? And lets face it, this has not been 2498 posts on design.


----------



## powerband

BigHaole said:


> If they're assembling and shipping watches, do we really need to worry about polluting the design thread? And lets face it, this has not been 2498 posts on design.


Is it too late to change the name "Key West" on the dial?

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## JFingers

Boom, I win! 2500!


----------



## powerband

JFingers said:


> Boom, I win! 2500!


You're welcome!

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Calibrel

Great to hear that by the end of the year I'll have a MK II on my wrist; however, I am a little disappointed it's not a bidirectional bezel. Don't know why I had bidirectional in my head as a set assumption. I'm sure I'll forget it once I'm holding it in my hand.


----------



## timeturner7

Calibrel said:


> Great to hear that by the end of the year I'll have a MK II on my wrist; however, I am a little disappointed it's not a bidirectional bezel. Don't know why I had bidirectional in my head as a set assumption. I'm sure I'll forget it once I'm holding it in my hand.


Almost all GMT watches have a bidirectional bezel so you can go forwards to backwards easily. Bill said it was the quality of the bezel spring that made him go for the unidirectional. Just another fine detail that shows that Bill is focused on the quality first.

No problems for me, it's easy to move it in one direction to the position when the pilot announces the timezone we are entering!


----------



## 66Cooper

Sure it might mean you have to turn it a bit more....but don't we all LOVE turning our bezels a bit now and then?


----------



## mtbmike

*Vanilla Pepsi*

1001 which seems popular with others. Bonus to have the extra coke bezel :-!


----------



## thejollywatcher

Deleted. Wrong thread. :roll:


----------



## curt941

*Re: Vanilla Pepsi*



mtbmike said:


> 1001 which seems popular with others. Bonus to have the extra coke bezel :-!


 Did plank owners get a spare bezel insert?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Vanilla Pepsi*



curt941 said:


> Did plank owners get a spare bezel insert?


Yup.


----------



## 66Cooper

They did, yes.


----------



## eXis10z

Woohoo I'm in group 4


----------



## messenius

So it's confirmed the white dial is C3


----------



## messenius

*Re: Vanilla Pepsi*

I think it's whole bezel not just insert


----------



## powerband

eXis10z said:


> Woohoo I'm in group 4


May I ask what your order number is?
My order number is 07674, which is what group 4 begins with... which means I missed group 3 by one order. Ha!

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Packleader

I wish the palm tree had made it into the final caseback design. I was kinda hoping for that. But I was happy that Bill mentioned Steelinox and his palm tree caseback idea in the Jan 19 update (2016-01-19: Project GMT Case Back).

Best,
Packleader


----------



## Calibrel

powerband said:


> eXis10z said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woohoo I'm in group 4
> 
> 
> 
> May I ask what your order number is?
> My order number is 07674, which is what group 4 begins with... which means I missed group 3 by one order. Ha!
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I missed group 5 by a day. I hesitated when I got my ticket order on the 6/22 and gave it some thought for a day. Womp womp!

But I'm feeling pretty lucky with order number 7777!


----------



## Yellowdrive

It won't be long before I can stop photoshopping this watch into existence.


----------



## Jfha1210

Group 1, #7410 here... 
Pepsi insert, black guilt dial for me, please!! 

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## JPMIA

Jfha1210 said:


> Group 1, #7410 here...
> Pepsi insert, black guilt dial for me, please!!
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


#07412, but group 2.... Am I also the first one on my group?

Well I guess I should take it as having more time to decide...


----------



## Pentameter

messenius said:


> So it's confirmed the white dial is C3


was this really confirmed? It did look like it in the pics, but I didn't see any official word


----------



## messenius

Pentameter said:


> was this really confirmed? It did look like it in the pics, but I didn't see any official word


It says so in the specifications in the order page


----------



## White Tuna

Lost my MKII email account shortly after ISP unexpectedly stopped operations on December 31st and I did not know my password for the account at all. 

Had the email account since the early 90's and had to get my MKII account changed over to my domain. 

Opened a ticket and Bill did some confirmation and was able to help me, which I greatly appreciate. 

I am group 2 and excited. Cannot wait to see the bezel's.


----------



## Fyrdoc

Group 7 can't wait!


----------



## GMT Aviator

Ok, so I received my order coupon last night for what looks like group 10? I had forgotten all about this watch in all honesty but I've paid the required deposit and I guess that means I've reserved a watch?
My question, when do I get to spec the watch? I want a white dial with Pepsi and preferably a Coke spare insert which I don't think I'll get.
Regards all


----------



## 66Cooper

Only plank owners (the first 60 watches) come with a spare bezel. I believe all plank owners are in the first group as it sold out in about a day


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> Only plank owners (the first 60 watches) come with a spare bezel. I believe all plank owners are in the first group as it sold out in about a day


I am in the second group and plank.


----------



## 66Cooper

Good to know. When did you order?


----------



## goyoneuff

You guys have seen the sales forum since this morning? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016, the year of the purge... Many watches for sale, watchout the F29 area...!


----------



## Arthur

Duplicate thread


----------



## Arthur

White Tuna said:


> I am in the second group and plank.


That's interesting? Maybe I'm reading the list wrong, but it looks like group 1 is 10/13-23/2014 The plank ordering opened up on January 20th 2012 as per the update

*Project GMT: Now open for Pre-order*

* January 20, 2012 By admin 
We are now accepting deposits for the Project GMT.
(Yes I am aware that the word project is currently misspelled in the E-boutique  - we will have that fixed in a little bit.)*

and the next update two days later advised that the pre order would likely be closed by January 24th

*The Pre-order for the Project GMT will likely*

*January 22, 2012 By admin 
close by Tuesday (January 24th, 2012) evening if not sooner. Once the pre-order is full we will open up a mailing list for those waiting for additional information and/or openings.
*

I'm confused about the 2014 start for the groups? Was that when the next stage after the plank ordering? OK, I dug back through updates to October 7th 2014, when the second stage preordering was announced.

*Project GMT: 2nd Stage Pre-order

October 7, 2014 By admin 
Thank you for your interest in the Project GMT. The following is the process that we will follow for the distribution of the remaining slots available for the project. (Please note that if you are a Plankowner an email will be sent to you at the end of October with a unique set of instructions)
◾25 spots will be released each month for 8-9 months beginning in October.
◾If the 25 spots sell out before the end of the month we will release the next 25 spots the following month. An email will be sent out each month to announce the release date and time.
◾If you see the "Notify Me" button on this page it means that ordering has been either temporarily suspended and/or hasn't opened yet.
◾If necessary we will be limiting customers to 2 reservations

The reasons for releasing the available spots in this sequence:
◾We want to spend the next few months QC'ing the parts we need for the build process. Collecting and processing the deposits does take quite a bit of administrative time. Spacing out the orders in this way will enable us to optimally balance our workload.
◾Email communication is not always the most reliable, spacing out the ordering in this way will allow time to compensate for this issue.

Price and payment schedule:
◾Price: $1,395 plus S&H
◾Deposit amount: $697.48
◾Second half of payment plus S&H due at time final order is placed
◾Special case back: The first 200 watches of this series will have a special case back made for it. For watches between 200 and 300 a standard Nassau case back will be used. The type of case back used on your order will be determined by the order in which your deposit is received.
◾Our current estimate is that final model selection will take place during the second half of 2015.
◾Refund period: Your deposit may be canceled and refunded in full at any time before your final order selection is made and submitted.
◾Serial number preferences: Sorry but we will not be taking requests for specific serial numbers. This option was one of the reasons for the delivery delays experienced with the Kingston Project.

For the month of October ordering will open October 13th 9 pm Eastern Standard Time (GMT -5)*

So those who ordered in October 2014 are in the first group of the second stage. I had to go back and flip through the "news" to find these old updates first are on page 24 and the last on page 11 of the updates. This is not the Key West Updates, this is the update archive with all the updates. completely slipped my mind that from the plank ordering to the second stage, almost two years elapsed!!


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> Good to know. When did you order?


My archive email header states:

Fri 1/20/2012 7:27 AM

I was hoping I was one of the first.

These dates did not make sense to me:










Until I remembered some people were paying their remaining deposits before it was announced to do so. That strategy must have worked for them as I paid within 48 hours of receiving the email. I do not mind waiting a little longer though.

I am pretty psyched about this.


----------



## White Tuna

Arthur said:


> That's interesting? Maybe I'm reading the list wrong, but it looks like group 1 is 10/13-23/2014 The plank ordering opened up on January 20th 2012 as per the update


I believe that is when people paid the remaining balance. Some people noticed a balance or something in their account and paid it off early. I held off because I did not want to mess up Bill's system.


----------



## Arthur

goyoneuff said:


> You guys have seen the sales forum since this morning?
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 2016, the year of the purge... Many watches for sale, watchout the F29 area...!


Yes, several MKII"s for sale I went through 2 days worth of sales posts, and saw three Nassau's a Vantage, LRRP MilSub a Kingston Plank kit and a Key West. Most MKII's I have seen in a long time!! Must be watch box clean out time.


----------



## goyoneuff

Well... I meant the MKII GMT for sale !!! $


Arthur said:


> Yes, several MKII"s for sale I went through 2 days worth of sales posts, and saw three Nassau's a Vantage, LRRP MilSub a Kingston Plank kit and a Key West. Most MKII's I have seen in a long time!! Must be watch box clean out time.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016, the year of the purge... Many watches for sale, watchout the F29 area...!


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> I believe that is when people paid the remaining balance.


Nope, your plank order doesn't fall into the 2nd stage pre-order. The schedule is for when the 2nd stage pre-order people ordered.


----------



## White Tuna

mlb212 said:


> Nope, your plank order doesn't fall into the 2nd stage pre-order. The schedule is for when the 2nd stage pre-order people ordered.


Thank you, but I am confused.


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> Thank you, but I am confused.


You get your Key West before the people on the schedule (I think).


----------



## White Tuna

mlb212 said:


> You get your Key West before the people on the schedule (I think).


OK. Thank you.


----------



## Arthur

White Tuna said:


> I believe that is when people paid the remaining balance. Some people noticed a balance or something in their account and paid it off early. I held off because I did not want to mess up Bill's system.


Not sure about that. I went back and looked, I paid the first payment when I ordered on January 20th 2012, I paid the balance on November 4th 2014, which was the same day the email request for the second payment came out. I don't think the October dates (1st Group) have anything to do with the plank orders as the first payment was over two years before those dates and the second payment request was a couple of weeks after the October dates. I will definitely stand corrected if I'm wrong, and anyone else who has more knowledge about the dates and payments please chime in.


----------



## Arthur

mlb212 said:


> You get your Key West before the people on the schedule (I think).


Correct, If you are a plank owner, you will get yours before any of the second stage orders are shipped (exception to that may be someone who at the tail end of the plank ordering, and the dial insert combination is not available, possibly someone in the very beginning of the second stage would get their watch sooner because their components were available). I know this happened with the Kingston's because there were so many combinations, and the watches were assembled in Switzerland in batches. I don't think this will happen this time, as Bill is building the watches here, and I would bet that he is going to have a good supply of dials, hands and inserts on hand.

I believe that one reason Bill is asking all the plank order folks to decide what they want is partially to make sure that he has enough of the right dials, inserts and hands available before he starts building watches. Just my guess, but the process for the Key West is way less complicated than the Kingston. Certainly there may be problems and glitches come up, but the Kingston process was so complicated from the get go it created a lot of problems.


----------



## cpotters

Well, OK Kids! It looks like we're on a roll now. I just figured out my laptop after some time of not using it, but I got my order in for my TWO Key Wests (like i had said from the beginning, a Pan Am and a Pussy Galore).

So lets see how things progress in the next few weeks... If we're lucky, we can get Bill to step away from the workbench and consider coming to a GTG in a month or two (with examples in tow, once they're made) and we can get some pics out to the rest of you. That's the plan, but nothing is scheduled yet.

Keep your pants on, and stay tuned ;-)


----------



## supersmitty

So for clarity, there are no wrist shots or actual pics of assembled key west yet?
Those who are able to order, how do you know what config you really want without seeing something real? Sounds like the blue in the Pepsi dial is going to be darker than the mock up right. Is there some option to change your mind once real pics are posted or something?
I'm in group one of the 2nd stage and super stoked don't get me wrong, but would feel really really uncomfortable finalizing my order without seeing what the final product is going to look like.
How are you guys handling this? Just grab your ball$ and pray it's what you think it'll look like? Or did I miss something??


----------



## BigHaole

Bill said, earlier, that the delivery order would be based on when your original order was placed, not when the 2nd half payment or shipping payment is made. So, we plank owners go first, and we go in the order our original orders were made. I waited a few days (Jan 24), so I assume I'll see some pics of the first wave, before mine ships.


----------



## cpotters

supersmitty said:


> So for clarity, there are no wrist shots or actual pics of assembled key west yet?
> Those who are able to order, how do you know what config you really want without seeing something real?....How are you guys handling this? Just grab your ball$ and pray it's what you think it'll look like? Or did I miss something??


So, Supersmitty:

No Wristshots or actual pics, because the bezels are not on the watches yet, and by Bill's own estimate probably won't be for a few weeks.

It seems illogical, for sure. However, for those who've gone thru the process before with other models, maybe not so scary. Remember, Plankholders - certainly the first sixty - didn't hesitate to send Bill their deposits when the concept was not even fully fleshed out yet, so you know they had a lot of faith in the product AND the it's builder based on past experience.

Then, most of us who are MkII fans realize that Bill's vision and standards often tend to be WAY more exacting than our own (that's really saying something, too), so that esthetically it's seldom that we've been disappointed in what HE chose as a color, or lume choice, or bracelet configuration, etc...

Lastly, we know fundamentaly what most of the details will be like, so the general preferences that you envision with the mock-ups are not all that far from what your thinking anyway. Realistically, I suppose you could delay your build so you could wait to see the pics, but my experience has been that most of MkII watches were only best appreciated by seeing them in person, anyway. So, unless you can see one in the metal - either on a friend's wrist or at a Get-Together (GTG) - you won't appreciate the subtleties of the look enough. Just my $0.02


----------



## supersmitty

Don't get me wrong guys... I'm not casting aspersions here... I'm a fan boy too and just as excited as everyone else; and yes I know it'll be awesome when it arrives.
I get it... Because I've had and have several mkii watches.

My thought is more around this... If I were placing my order and final payment; I would want to know how flippin dark the Pepsi blue is cause that would determine if I went Coke or Pepsi. The blue that is in the mock up looks 'blue jay' blue to me... Not like the dark navy that recent news leads one to think that it might be.
So with out seeing it, are any of you plank holders in a pickle and can't decide?
Or are you just going with it and hoping for the best?


----------



## Arthur

I'm right up close to the front, and as Charlie said, I'm going on past experience and Bill's eye for detail. 

AFA the mock ups, they have been around for a long time, and predate the discussions about insert color, and most everyone's wishes to have the blue and red darker, more like the colors of the Bakelite inserts of the old Rolex 6542's.

Hopefully we will see and example of each dial and insert before the watches are shipped, but that is not a guarantee. From Bill's standpoint, had he waited until he had assembled watches to show before taking final orders, the first watches would probably not be going out til mid summer rather than late spring as anticipated. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

Arthur said:


> Not sure about that. I went back and looked, I paid the first payment when I ordered on January 20th 2012, I paid the balance on November 4th 2014, which was the same day the email request for the second payment came out. I don't think the October dates (1st Group) have anything to do with the plank orders as the first payment was over two years before those dates and the second payment request was a couple of weeks after the October dates. I will definitely stand corrected if I'm wrong, and anyone else who has more knowledge about the dates and payments please chime in.





Arthur said:


> Not sure about that. I went back and looked, I paid the first payment when I ordered on January 20th 2012, I paid the balance on November 4th 2014, which was the same day the email request for the second payment came out. I don't think the October dates (1st Group) have anything to do with the plank orders as the first payment was over two years before those dates and the second payment request was a couple of weeks after the October dates. I will definitely stand corrected if I'm wrong, and anyone else who has more knowledge about the dates and payments please chime in.


Ahhhhhh....Now I remember Arthur. The request for the balance went out but gave until sometime in January 2015 to pay. I remember I waited because I was in the middle of closing on a house.

I do see my original date in the customer service portal but not the E-Boutique which is where my confusion lies.



supersmitty said:


> Don't get me wrong guys... I'm not casting aspersions here... I'm a fan boy too and just as excited as everyone else; and yes I know it'll be awesome when it arrives.
> I get it... Because I've had and have several mkii watches.
> 
> My thought is more around this... If I were placing my order and final payment; I would want to know how flippin dark the Pepsi blue is cause that would determine if I went Coke or Pepsi. The blue that is in the mock up looks 'blue jay' blue to me... Not like the dark navy that recent news leads one to think that it might be.
> So with out seeing it, are any of you plank holders in a pickle and can't decide?
> Or are you just going with it and hoping for the best?


supersmitty I am sure we will see pictures of the two Bezels before the first public Project GMT watch ships, which I am assuming will be the first watch.

Also if you are not a plank holder I am sure you will see the variations before they ship.


----------



## Arthur

I would imagine the non plank holders will see a thousand photos of the Key West from every angle, inside, outside, you name it. They will definitely have plenty of information to make their decision.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CBM_DOC

I just go with my gut. Everything Bill has ever made for me turned out wonderful. So I did the white dial with pepsi bezel. If I don't like it (which is about as likely as a giant meteorite hitting me tomorrow), I'll switch to the spare coke bezel that I am getting as a plank owner. The best of both worlds!

Dave


----------



## powerband

White Tuna said:


> .
> 
> I am pretty psyched about this.


The wait has been worth part of the cost of the Key West.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

supersmitty said:


> Don't get me wrong guys... I'm not casting aspersions here... I'm a fan boy too and just as excited as everyone else; and yes I know it'll be awesome when it arrives.
> I get it... Because I've had and have several mkii watches.
> 
> My thought is more around this... If I were placing my order and final payment; I would want to know how flippin dark the Pepsi blue is cause that would determine if I went Coke or Pepsi. The blue that is in the mock up looks 'blue jay' blue to me... Not like the dark navy that recent news leads one to think that it might be.
> So with out seeing it, are any of you plank holders in a pickle and can't decide?
> Or are you just going with it and hoping for the best?


:think: Sometimes you just gotta step out on *faith*....

My past experiences with Mr. Yao and MKII tell me with unwavering certainty that I will not be disappointed.

|>|>


----------



## BigHaole

Here's an actual "design" topic. Is the official designation "KeyWest" (no space) or "Key West" (1 space)?


----------



## 66Cooper

Space I believe. Like GMT Master is not GMTMaster. The sample pix show it Key West - GMT


----------



## timeturner7

BigHaole said:


> Here's an actual "design" topic. Is the official designation "KeyWest" (no space) or "Key West" (1 space)?


Looks like a slight space in there from these pics.
I never noticed the hyphen until now.

__
http://instagr.am/p/8oNfTrK-V7/


__
http://instagr.am/p/1tMHa-q-YN/


__
http://instagr.am/p/9v4tkjK-U1/


----------



## mindaddy

This is cool. Thanks in advance to plank holders. please post ridiculous numbers of pics, glam shots, vids, unboxing play by plays, reviews, etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

cpotters said:


> So, Supersmitty:
> 
> No Wristshots or actual pics, because the bezels are not on the watches yet, and by Bill's own estimate probably won't be for a few weeks.
> 
> It seems illogical, for sure. However, for those who've gone thru the process before with other models, maybe not so scary. Remember, Plankholders - certainly the first sixty - didn't hesitate to send Bill their deposits when the concept was not even fully fleshed out yet, so you know they had a lot of faith in the product AND the it's builder based on past experience.
> 
> Then, most of us who are MkII fans realize that Bill's vision and standards often tend to be WAY more exacting than our own (that's really saying something, too), so that esthetically it's seldom that we've been disappointed in what HE chose as a color, or lume choice, or bracelet configuration, etc...
> 
> Lastly, we know fundamentaly what most of the details will be like, so the general preferences that you envision with the mock-ups are not all that far from what your thinking anyway. Realistically, I suppose you could delay your build so you could wait to see the pics, but my experience has been that most of MkII watches were only best appreciated by seeing them in person, anyway. So, unless you can see one in the metal - either on a friend's wrist or at a Get-Together (GTG) - you won't appreciate the subtleties of the look enough. Just my $0.02


Well said. You're at the head of the line, the only one before me. I remember trying to cram a check in Bill's hand at the NYC GTG in April 2011 for one of these! He told me to wait but he'd put me right behind you in line...

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## Roundhead

*Re: Project GMT: Name discussion*

Hi all im new member, Love watches but currently have no timepiece. I got lucky and received an email from MKII 26 Januari that i have benen selected to pre order a KeyWestGMT.

Feels awesome, evertything around Bill and his brand MKII is cool. I selected a matte dial and white index with pepsi bezel but im not sure if thats correct choice yet.... Pepsi is 100% but dial I still Done know.

I have some questions maybe you can answer?

1. Whats a plank owner? 
2. Im not very familiar with the order process, i payed 50% now, when do I pay rest? Is shipping included?
3. I have order series 08000, what does that mean? A special group?
4. When is the delivery?  
5. Tis limited edition of 399 watches, then IT Will never be produceed Again?

Thanx have a nice day!


----------



## Arthur

Roundhead said:


> Hi all im new member, Love watches but currently have no timepiece. I got lucky and received an email from MKII 26 Januari that i have benen selected to pre order a KeyWestGMT.
> 
> Feels awesome, evertything around Bill and his brand MKII is cool. I selected a matte dial and white index with pepsi bezel but im not sure if thats correct choice yet.... Pepsi is 100% but dial I still Done know.
> 
> I have some questions maybe you can answer?
> 
> 1. Whats a plank owner?
> 2. Im not very familiar with the order process, i payed 50% now, when do I pay rest? Is shipping included?
> 3. I have order series 08000, what does that mean? A special group?
> 4. When is the delivery?
> 5. Tis limited edition of 399 watches, then IT Will never be produceed Again?
> 
> Thanx have a nice day!


Welcome to the MKII forum, lots of crazy watch people here!!! I will try my best to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.
1. Plank owners are the first group to put up their money when a new limited edition (LE) MKII. Watch is announced. These brave souls put up a deposit based on their knowledge that Bill Yao will come through with and outstanding watch. In the case of the Key West, we plank owners put up our 50% deposit around January 20th 2012 or four years back. As a reward for our patience and trust, we plank owners are given something extra as part of the deal. In the case of the Key West, we get to chose a second bezel insert to be included with our watch.
2. You will get and email from MKII when your second payment is due. And no, shipping is not included. Priority mail within the CONUS is around 22.00 USD
3. That order series is probably the code that MKII uses to designate where you are in the order process. It is not a special group AFAIK. The only special group is the above explained plank owners which were the first 60 watches.
4. No one has any idea as to when your watch will be delivered. None have been delivered. Bill said in and update last week that he is planning on shipping the first plank orders in April and would like to have all the Key West watches delivered by the end of 2016.based on your order date, late January, I would not expect to see your watch until the very end of this year, and that is only if everything goes according to schedule and there are no problems along the way.
5. You are correct, when the entire run of Key West watches are completed, somewhere from 300-400 watches, there will be no more. There may be similar watches that are GMT's but there will not be any more Key West.

If you visit the forum here, you will get all the news and updates, as someone will post a link to the MKII update page on the website as well as the Instagram updates.

Be patient my friend, you will be getting and awesome watch at a very good price, and your wait will be much, much shorter than those of us who put our deposits up over 4 years ago.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Are we there yet?










Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

powerband said:


> Are we there yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


If you are here, then you have truly arrived!! My kind of place. Would have no need for a watch here, get up, swim, dive, fish, eat, and when the sun begins it's travel to it's resting place behind the horizon, drink, eat, sleep. Repeat!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Arthur said:


> If you are here, then you have truly arrived!! My kind of place. Would have no need for a watch here, get up, swim, dive, fish, eat, and when the sun begins it's travel to it's resting place behind the horizon, drink, eat, sleep. Repeat!!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Perfect...

... Then I wake up in a smog-filled city that was once an oasis of protected natural reserves back in the 21st century, some thirty-three centuries ago, wearing my MKXCVII implant to tell me it's time to take my sunshine vitamin and bone-stimulant. My blood sugar remains off the chart, which categorizes me as a human species and not an A.I.

90% of the Eastern Seaboard is still under water but my MKCVII implant has a water resistance of 200 meters. I'm still looking for this place called Key West.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## Plat0

I like your style Powerband. If you're not writer of some sort... You should have been.


----------



## Cleans Up

WWell finally pulled the trigger. White/gilt Pepsi. Some reservations but it just seemed like the way to go. Hope everyone else has made thier choices well. Wonder if I can spring for a 2nd one!


----------



## exador

Cleans Up said:


> Well finally pulled the trigger. White/gilt Pepsi. Some reservations but it just seemed like the way to go. Hope everyone else has made thier choices well. Wonder if I can spring for a 2nd one!


Hi, how were you able to order? Website is saying "Ordering closed".


----------



## tmoris

exador said:


> Hi, how were you able to order? Website is saying "Ordering closed".


Plank owner most likely


----------



## fastfras

exador said:


> Hi, how were you able to order? Website is saying "Ordering closed".


Pretty sure somewhere on this forum or perhaps on the MKII website the following: The Plank and 2nd run are spoken for, there will be an additional 50 available for general sales at a later date. My suggestion would be for you to add your email to the "notify me" box and MKII will contact you when they are available.

Keeping in mind there will be several available in the Sales Forum soon after the Plank release. There was one listed already (can be found on watchrecon) for a fair price.

Good luck with your search.


----------



## exador

fastfras said:


> There was one listed already (can be found on watchrecon) for a fair price.


Pulled. I guess they don't like folks selling 'Unicorns' ;-)

I'll settle for a Kingston if someone wants to PM me.


----------



## powerband

exador said:


> I'll settle for a Kingston if someone wants to PM me.


There's nothing "settling" about a Kingston. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

powerband said:


> There's nothing "settling" about a Kingston.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Right, as scarce as they are, they are not something I would put in the "settle for" category !! If it were me, I would get on the notification list for the Key West, as there are going to be around 50 available after the second stage ordering is complete. Also there may well be some cancellations of second stage orders that free up a few more watches. And of course there will be the secondary market. If resale numbers for the Key West are anything like the Kingston resales , there are going to be watches hitting the sales forums pretty quickly after they start shipping. You are going to have to pay a premium for these, but you would for a Kingston as well.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## exador

Good advice, thanks.


----------



## timeturner7

Waiting on an update from Bill. I believe the bezels should be in soon and Bill said he can then post a completed watch!!!
Can't wait.


----------



## powerband

Getting close. 

Does anyone know if the casebacks are in?

Even if the casebacks aren't in, I'm sure we can still have pictures of the "full frontal" when the bezels are in.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Plat0

I can always appreciate a full frontal.


----------



## gwold

White dial GMT hands under QC, from Instagram.


----------



## thejollywatcher

https://www.instagram.com/mkiiwatch/


----------



## Aceldama

I honestly think the bezels are in, but awaiting a big reveal. I'm hoping the reason is these are not your normal everyday aluminum flat bezels. That's just my wishful thinking...


----------



## gwold

Aceldama said:


> I honestly think the bezels are in, but awaiting a big reveal. I'm hoping the reason is these are not your normal everyday aluminum flat bezels. That's just my wishful thinking...


Prescient! From today's blog post:


> The Key West GMT bezel inlays have arrived! We will be starting the QC today. We will post pics on our FaceBook page and through Instagram


----------



## BigHaole

gwold said:


> Prescient! From today's blog post:


I'm still betting it's going to be sapphire. Any other guesses?


----------



## curt941

the fact that he called it an inlay and not an insert, does that mean anything?

A sapphire insert would put this watch over the top...i feel like an aluminum insert will be fine, but damn, sapphire would be nuts.


----------



## POR901

Latest news....

2016-02-24: Key West Bezel Inlays&#8230;.


----------



## Flip.willy

Coke bezels.

__
http://instagr.am/p/BCOHpfuK-Xd/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

As I knew, no sapphire BUT I am really liking the red. Can someone repost the pix here? I can only view on my phone.


----------



## Darwin




----------



## poisonwazthecure

So essentially the key west will look like a Kingston with the above bezel insert and a gmt hand?


----------



## poisonwazthecure

I'm digging that red. Will have to wait for the Pepsi but I'm thinking I'll be happy with a black dial Coke bezel.


----------



## Flip.willy

poisonwazthecure said:


> So essentially the key west will look like a Kingston with the above bezel insert and a gmt hand?


And a smaller crown I believe?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

poisonwazthecure said:


> So essentially the key west will look like a Kingston with the above bezel insert and a gmt hand?


The crown will be different as well. Otherwise it will look same. The bezel will have a 48 click rather then 60.


----------



## Thevenin

Is it just me or that font is way too narrow?


----------



## curt941

No sapphire...


----------



## timeturner7

The numbers certainly look thinner but I'm liking it. Looks very crisp.


----------



## 66Cooper

Yes, the font is a thinner weight then what was used in the pre-production comps. I think will look very nice when it's put altogether.


----------



## dwg

the color looks good and the dark red works great with the coke bezel. I like that it is low key, but also different than 99% gmt bezels out there.


----------



## Plat0

poisonwazthecure said:


> So essentially the key west will look like a Kingston with the above bezel insert and a gmt hand?


You say that like its bad thing...



poisonwazthecure said:


> I'm digging that red. Will have to wait for the Pepsi but I'm thinking I'll be happy with a black dial Coke bezel.


This coke bezel has made my choice for my final configuration much harder!

Damn!


----------



## 66Cooper

Well, if it helps, the Pepsi blue is going to be dark. Might be able to go both ways


----------



## timeturner7

dwg said:


> the color looks good and the dark red works great with the coke bezel. I like that it is low key, but also different than 99% gmt bezels out there.


At first, I doubted I would like a dark red, but I love this red. It's like a deep cherry colour........cherry coke?


----------



## White Tuna

Flip.willy said:


> Coke bezels.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BCOHpfuK-Xd/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your seventh post is strong. 








Exactly why people should not judge a person on the number of their posts on a forum, but on the content.



poisonwazthecure said:


> So essentially the key west will look like a Kingston with the above bezel insert and a gmt hand?


Different bezel, GMT Hand, option for white dial, roulette date wheel with different font, different crown, I am pretty sure the hands will be different.

I'm not sure what you were expecting but this is going better than I hoped. That red is a killer. :-!


----------



## Thieuster

poisonwazthecure said:


> So essentially the key west will look like a Kingston with the above bezel insert and a gmt hand?


Mmmm, much like the Rolex GMT looks like a Submariner with the aformentioned bezel... Having said that, I am glad you wrapped it up so nicely for us This GMT is what we asked Bill to do for us when the dust of the Kingston euphoria had settled down: '... please Bill give us a watch like the Kingston that echoes the Pan Am GMT of years gone by.'

Menno


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

White Tuna said:


> .....I'm not sure what you were expecting *but this is going better than I hoped. That red is a killer.* :-!


 Abso-freakin'-lutely! :-!

|>|>

ps. Can't wait to see the *Blue* now....


----------



## TheDude

Thevenin said:


> Is it just me or that font is way too narrow?
> 
> View attachment 7209034


It's slightly thinner than the bakelite but about the same as the aluminum service inserts that replaced the bakelite. I have seen some really fat inserts out there affixed to the 6542 but many are skeptical of their authenticity.

Rolex notoriously had wild variances in bezel font from run to run... I think we're fine. They look fantastic.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

poisonwazthecure said:


> So essentially the key west will look like a Kingston with the above bezel insert and a gmt hand?


Yes, essentially... and it is precisely the Kingston DNA that will make this Key West so special.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

I personally like that the font is thinner -- conveys restraint and precision. My 4-year-old writes the alphabet in big, clumsy fonts while my architect friend writes in fine, precise font. Or maybe I'm suffering confirmation bias.

Edit: pics combined for font comparison:



















Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## poisonwazthecure

Believe me guys, I'm extremely happy with the way the key west is going to turn out. Sorry if my tone conveyed otherwise. There are 2.5k posts in this thread so I wasn't sure what to expect.


----------



## JFingers

poisonwazthecure said:


> Believe me guys, I'm extremely happy with the way the key west is going to turn out. Sorry if my tone conveyed otherwise. There are 2.5k posts in this thread so I wasn't sure what to expect.


Don't fret, it's gonna be amazing!


----------



## BigHaole

poisonwazthecure said:


> Believe me guys, I'm extremely happy with the way the key west is going to turn out. Sorry if my tone conveyed otherwise. There are 2.5k posts in this thread so I wasn't sure what to expect.


2.6k


----------



## poisonwazthecure

BigHaole said:


> 2.6k


Thats what I mean. You blink your eye and another 100 posts appear!


----------



## wingman87

Sneak peek on Instagram!Sorry, I can't post links or pics yet 
Oh how I wish I was living in NY to see the baby in the flesh soon..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jallen82

first preview post put on instagram, wonderful! can't wait to see the rest


----------



## 66Cooper

Please post!!


----------



## gwold

66Cooper said:


> Please post!!


mlb posted it in the here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/key-west-2nd-stage-pre-order-1095164-73.html#post26474434


----------



## powerband

Here's the picture from Instagram, a teaser from MKII:










Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Maybe not a true color but the dark red looks almost cranberry. I like that it's dark!

And... I almost forgot... LUG HOLES.




Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## timeturner7

wingman87 said:


> Oh how I wish I was living in NY to see the baby in the flesh soon..


I live in New York, but I have a flight Saturday morning.....devastated!!!
Hopefully mine is not too far away anyway.


----------



## STEELINOX

powerband said:


> Maybe not a true color but the dark red looks almost cranberry. I like that it's dark!
> 
> And... I almost forgot... LUG HOLES.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


And a cherry pie crust "chamfer" !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## powerband

STEELINOX said:


> And a cherry pie crust "chamfer" !
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Steelinox, tell us how you feel about them chamfer edges. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Thieuster

I have seen the future and it's... blue, Pepsi blue... Just have a look!


----------



## 66Cooper

Interesting. Not really as dark I am was expecting. Soooo excited to see it in the flesh in a couple days. I am 100% certain on Pepsi but just HAVE to see that white dial. Black was my first choice but who knows.


----------



## Thieuster

66Cooper said:


> Interesting. Not really as dark I am was expecting. Soooo excited to see it in the flesh in a couple days. I am 100% certain on Pepsi but just HAVE to see that white dial. Black was my first choice but who knows.


Well, I made my choice: black + gilt + pepsi. And I still think it's a good choice for me. I think that I prefer this blue over the very dark blue. But, be advised: this pic is taken with the aid of a good lamp and it's a macro shot (I think). That can alter certain colors.

Having said that, I think it's very important to the rest of the world(...) that you guys take a portable photo studio with you when you're off to the GTG!

Guys, I don't want to put a burden on your shoulders but... you are the few, the proud and the eyes of the MKII Community are upon you


----------



## TheDude

Thieuster said:


> I have seen the future and it's... blue, Pepsi blue... Just have a look!
> 
> View attachment 7282274


Not that I care about the white dial, but shouldn't the plot and hand lume match?

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## Yellowdrive

I couldn't resist the exercise...


----------



## Plat0

I'm really liking what I'm seeing.. And I'll echo the sentiment:

Guys going to the GTG... Take a white light box with you! We NEED some amazing shots!


----------



## 66Cooper

I did the same hack-mock up on this end. haha!! 

I would not take the picture of the hands and lume to heart. That would have been just a mock-up with what he had on hand. Get it? On hand. Haha. No, but the hands looks like BGW9 and the dial is C3. That is NOT a config that will be rolling off the MKII assembly line I am sure.

As for mobile studios, I will try and bring my CP watch-holder and a pop up Mini light box. That should give us some good, clean shots.


----------



## TheDude

66Cooper said:


> I did the same hack-mock up on this end. haha!!
> 
> I would not take the picture of the hands and lume to heart. That would have been just a mock-up with what he had on hand. Get it? On hand. Haha. No, but the hands looks like BGW9 and the dial is C3. That is NOT a config that will be rolling off the MKII assembly line I am sure.
> 
> As for mobile studios, I will try and bring my CP watch-holder and a pop up Mini light box. That should give us some good, clean shots.


Well it's obvious that is what happened. I just don't know why he'd put something like that out into public view.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## Aceldama

Sticking to my guns. The white dial Pepsi is going to be a nice match with the Kingston and a nice change up from the Rolex Pepsi GMT.


----------



## BigHaole

TheDude said:


> Well it's obvious that is what happened. I just don't know why he'd put something like that out into public view.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


I'm going with the rumor (started here) that Bill plans to do white dials with C3 lumed markers and BGW9 Hands and black dials with BGW9 lumed markers and C3 lumed hands. Sort of a Deep Blue color pattern.


----------



## curt941

TheDude said:


> Well it's obvious that is what happened. I just don't know why he'd put something like that out into public view.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


I think they're both C3, just an optical illusion going on.

I think because of how the picture is you're seeing the dial semi-charged (thus the almost neon appearance) and the hands are coming across a little whiter than normal.

I can't imagine bill would have been sloppy enough to just throw some BGW9 hands on there.


----------



## poisonwazthecure

BigHaole said:


> I'm going with the rumor (started here) that Bill plans to do white dials with C3 lumed markers and BGW9 Hands and black dials with BGW9 lumed markers and C3 lumed hands. Sort of a Deep Blue color pattern.


I hope not. While that may work on some watches I don't think it would be appropriate for an elegant piece like the key west.


----------



## STEELINOX

powerband said:


> Steelinox, tell us how you feel about them chamfer edges.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


These chamfers are so sweet, the cherry pie crust can't compete !

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## gwold

More IG goodness.









Based on the focus box, we may be in for a third quadrant "sneak peek" shortly.


----------



## Yellowdrive

The mystery continues to unfold...


----------



## Thevenin

Well lots of goodies, but can't help noticing these.

Not sure if this is actually how it is, but me hopes not...


----------



## STEELINOX

https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatches/posts/981555075213096:0

Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## STEELINOX

Bump onto Saturday's event ! 


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


----------



## powerband

If the caption says part 3 of 3, does this mean there won't be any more sneak peak until the GTG?










Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Patients. You'll all be getting TONS of pix come Saturday.


----------



## JFingers

And patience!


----------



## poisonwazthecure

Just imagine the below with the previously posted inserts.


----------



## Calibrel

So torn whether I should completely decimate my schedule on Saturday or not to make it out to the GTG and see this in person. For some reason, I still feel like there's something still in store for us we haven't been told yet.


----------



## 66Cooper

JFingers said:


> And patience!


Haha! Can you guess that I work in pharmaceutical advertising? I type that word all day long.


----------



## White Tuna

poisonwazthecure said:


> Just imagine the below with the previously posted inserts.


Hands look C3 there.


----------



## Thevenin




----------



## phukhanhbk11

Wonderful. I'm in the last grp of 2nd stage pre order, I think I stick with this combination. Not sure when I can touch it in person (


----------



## poisonwazthecure

I'm leaning towards black dial, coke bezel.


----------



## Darwin

Sacre bleu! I thought seeing photos of the finished product would make my decision about black gilt vs white gilt easier... Nope. Well, I say that before we've seen an assembled Key West with the black gilt dial, but still... OMG!


----------



## GMT Aviator

I'm in group 10. Do you think I'll get a choice of dial and bezel or only whats left?

If I can't get a white dial with Coke or Pepsi (preferably Coke), i won't want the watch.


----------



## BigHaole

GMT Aviator said:


> I'm in group 10. Do you think I'll get a choice of dial and bezel or only whats left?
> 
> If I can't get a white dial with Coke or Pepsi (preferably Coke), i won't want the watch.


I hope you get the combination you want, but if you can't, I wouldn't worry too much. Based on the excitement on the board, I don't imagine you'll have trouble finding it a new home. And, there will probably be ones matching your desired configuration available.


----------



## BigHaole

Darwin said:


> Sacre bleu! I thought seeing photos of the finished product would make my decision about black gilt vs white gilt easier... Nope. Well, I say that before we've seen an assembled Key West with the black gilt dial, but still... OMG!


Same thing...same exact thing...I knew I should have ordered 2 of these.


----------



## Elf1962

And they keep comin....Ain't she a beauty


----------



## JFingers

GMT Aviator said:


> I'm in group 10. Do you think I'll get a choice of dial and bezel or only whats left?
> 
> If I can't get a white dial with Coke or Pepsi (preferably Coke), i won't want the watch.


From what I understand, you still get to choose your configuration. I wouldn't fret about it.


----------



## 66Cooper

I REALLY wish he had a black dialed one next to that. I just am getting really unsure of what I want...


----------



## Aceldama

66Cooper said:


> I REALLY wish he had a black dialed one next to that. I just am getting really unsure of what I want...


I'm hoping to see a black gild coke...


----------



## fastfras

Aceldama said:


> I'm hoping to see a black gild coke...


You and me both. Pretty sure I'm going the same way, just not a fan of the white dial..


----------



## powerband

It's good, like a coconut rum drink on a warm island.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## timeturner7

66Cooper said:


> I REALLY wish he had a black dialed one next to that. I just am getting really unsure of what I want...


I think Bill will have a non-gilt black dial coke to cover all the specifications in only 2 watches at the NYC gtg tomorrow. I think we will get a flurry of pictures up here very soon.


----------



## Cleans Up

66Cooper said:


> I REALLY wish he had a black dialed one next to that. I just am getting really unsure of what I want...


.

_"I'm hoping to see a black gild coke...__I'm hoping to see a black gild coke..."I_

I'm just hoping for a ton of pics from the get together, and hoping there will be a fair number of options to compare. My order is placed but I'm still a little on the fence. So much so that I might consider picking up a second watch should the opportunity presents itself! The sickness!

_
_


----------



## gwold

Cleans Up said:


> I'm just hoping for a ton of pics from the get together, and hoping there will be a fair number of options to compare. My order is placed but I'm still a little on the fence. So much so that I might consider picking up a second watch should the opportunity presents itself! The sickness!


Agreed. I'm in for one, a gift for my stepson. But depending on how the black gilt coke looks, I may have to struggle hard against chasing one of those final few Bill's saving for the post-pre-order blitz.


----------



## timeturner7

Looks like he is only taking 2 gmt watches as he stated. He just posted a pic on instagram of what looks like a black dial coke (can't see whether gilt or not), the white hilt pepsi previously posted aND what looks like a project 300?????


----------



## powerband

Looks like the GTG trip is packed:










Hard to tell but that looks like a black dial Coke. And the 300.

Excited to see the onslaught of pictures here. (Please, the more the better!)

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Plat0

I wish I was there...


----------



## Thieuster

Plat0 said:


> I wish I was there...


^^^^this. Totally this.^^^^


----------



## Hendu615

Great time at the GTG, it was a pleasure meeting and speaking to Bill as well as meeting other members. Looking foward to the next one.










Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Thanks, Hendu615. First to post the GTG! Looking forward to more.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Hendu615 said:


> Great time at the GTG, it was a pleasure meeting and speaking to Bill as well as meeting other members. Looking foward to the next one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Oh, man, I thought I was dead-set on the black dial... but that white dial is GORGEOUS! I may change my mind.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## thejollywatcher

Powerband, not sure if you're aware....but there's been lots of action going on on this thread....

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/attn-gtg-amp;-key-west-reveal-2926706.html



powerband said:


> Thanks, Hendu615. First to post the GTG! Looking forward to more.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

thejollywatcher said:


> Powerband, not sure if you're aware....but there's been lots of action going on on this thread....
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/attn-gtg-amp;-key-west-reveal-2926706.html


No, but I finally wandered into that thread and now I'm still trying to put my eyes back into my skull.

Just wonderful action. Thanks!

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Design thread - Case Back Photo Posted!!*

 New image of Key West Case Back posted at:


__
http://instagr.am/p/BCl5jIQq-Xm/









|>|>


----------



## Arthur

Now that I have seen the Key West in both variations, I still am sticking with my original plan which is the White dial/ Pepsi insert. I will say though the Black/Gilt is a beautiful watch and i know that it will make folks who chose it very happy. 
I really, really appreciate all the efforts that the GTG participants went through to get all of us photos of the watches. Having said that, i really don't believe that photos do the watch justice. I think that watches like these with gilt lettering,chapter rings, minute markers and hands, have to be seen "in the flesh" to really appreciate their beauty. I know that i probably looked at a thousand photos of the Black/Gilt Kingston before i got mine. When i unwrapped it and took all the plastic off, held it up in the sunlight, WOW!! A thousand percent better than the photos.In good lighting or better yet sunlight, the dial is amazing!! I have no doubt that the Key West will be the same. 
After all these years of waiting, through which I have forced myself to sort of detach myself, now I'm really getting excited. Sort of like a kid in the weeks before Christmas, i'm looking forward to the day "THE PACKAGE" is delivered to my front door.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## dwg

I'd still prefer clean case back, but it doesn't look bad. I also like, that there is no fake oyster like on nassau.

P300 looks amazing.. I have the borealis on order and this looks much better even in low res pictures.


----------



## Plat0

dwg said:


> I'd still prefer clean case back, but it doesn't look bad. I also like, that there is no fake oyster like on nassau.


I actually really like the case back now and I really didn't initially.

Fake oyster? What do you mean?


----------



## Darwin

I took that as a comment on the bracelet but now suspect it refers to the caseback. On my Kingston and Nassau the caseback has both traditional slots for a caseback tool and the scalloped edgefor a Rolex case back opener. The Key West caseback just has the slots:









Whereas the Kingston (not my picture) has both:










Plat0 said:


> I actually really like the case back now and I really didn't initially.
> 
> Fake oyster? What do you mean?


----------



## Plat0

I see...


I don't put much weight into "fake oyster" thoughts anyway. The reality is that the whole watch is an homage to the Rolex Sub and I don't have a problem with that. I'm happy MKII exists so that I could have awesome watches at not crazy prices.


----------



## TheDude

Darwin said:


> I took that as a comment on the bracelet but now suspect it refers to the caseback. On my Kingston and Nassau the caseback has both traditional slots for a caseback tool and the scalloped edgefor a Rolex case back opener. The Key West caseback just has the slots:
> 
> View attachment 7337658
> 
> 
> Whereas the Kingston (not my picture) has both:
> View attachment 7337666


Nassau caseback configuration on the Key West...

Your Nassau must be a big crown. My big crown Nassau also has the scalloped edge. Those first 25 Nassaus had Kingston cases, casebacks, crowns, tubes, and bracelets.

My 3 6 9 Nassau has the Nassau bits and the caseback doesn't have the scallops.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Darwin

TheDude said:


> Nassau caseback configuration on the Key West...
> 
> Your Nassau must be a big crown. My big crown Nassau also has the scalloped edge. Those first 25 Nassaus had Kingston cases, casebacks, crowns, tubes, and bracelets.
> 
> My 3 6 9 Nassau has the Nassau bits and the caseback doesn't have the scallops.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Heh, heh - I only had the Nassau for about 12 hours a couple of years ago. I just assumed that it had the same caseback as the Kingston... It definitely wasn't a big crown Nassau but what a watch! I found it revelatory as I had read that with each watch Bill seeks to improve upon those that came before. Prior to having brief custody of the Kingston, my experience with MKII was limited to two LRRPs, a Blackwater, and the Kingston (I have the matte, non-gilt dial version with date and red triangle bezel insert, so the comparison to the Nasssau was fair, with the differences being limited to the lack of a date and the absence of "Kingston" on the dial of the Nassau ). I couldn't imagine the Kingston being improved upon, but the Nassau did so in subtle ways that I can't recall/put into words. It just seemed that much more exquisitely put together and the tolerances seemed tighter somehow. There was just something about it... Anyway, I stand corrected about the Nassau caseback. Who knew?!

FWIW, Kingston is on wrist today and I still can't imagine it being improved upon! I'm expecting that the Key West will give it a run for its money.


----------



## BigHaole

Darwin said:


> Heh, heh - I only had the Nassau for about 12 hours a couple of years ago.


Wow! You must have really hated that Nassau.


----------



## Darwin

No, I LOVED It and had difficulty moving it on. However, I "brokered" a deal for a WIS in the states - the seller was in Canada and refused to ship abroad so I bought it and sold it on. It was never really mine... but at least we had a day together!



BigHaole said:


> Wow! You must have really hated that Nassau.


----------



## curt941

In a couple of the pictures I've seen the white dial looks much more silver/pearlescent than I was expecting.


----------



## Jellytime

You know, the more I look at the case back, the more I'm beginning to love it. Very simple but good vibe to it.


----------



## 66Cooper

The dial is very much pearlescent. I'd say that it only appears white when in bright light and while looking directly at it. With lighting and angle changes, the color shifts a bit. That is what makes proper "white" dial watches so cool. If it was simple painted it would be simple boring.


----------



## Metropolitan

I was set on the white dial but am not sure about the yellowish lume.. Does it come across worse in the photos than is actually is?


----------



## Metropolitan

After looking at a ton of photos I think I can answer my own question: The C3 lume appears pretty green on the white dial. So contrary to my initial choice I'll probably end up with the black gilt dial..


----------



## wingman87

After the teasers on Instagram and all the beautiful pics from the GTG, these last quiet weeks have been feeling like rehab. I need a new fix! Preferably a pic of a fully assembled black/gilt pepsi.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Yellowdrive

I noticed there are some nice live pictures of the Project 300 prototype in the E-Boutique page. I am DYING to see live pics of the either black-dial options of the Key West with the pepsi bezel. I've never really been into the white dial or coke bezels; I still haven't seen "my" watch! I'm hoping that comes very soon.


----------



## TheMeasure

Great shot of the 'Pan Am' and the 'Pussy Galore' Key West.








(photo by @americantrench | Instagram)


----------



## Calibrel

"Pussy Galore" is black dial pepsi, Fat Lady/Sophia Loren is the first coke reference no?


----------



## Yellowdrive

I've noticed a few people referring to the Coke bezel Key West as the "Pussy Galore". I'm sure someone with more knowledge of Rolex history knows for sure, but that's not correct, is it? Honor Blackman wore the 6542, which had a dark blue and red bezel. The Coke bezel (black/red) didn't come along till much later. No?
I don't see a lot of examples of the 6542 with a really crisp blue, but it's definitely blue. Actually, when I do see a really crisp blue/red bezel I tend to think of the 1675 (which I like to refer to as the "Thomas Magnum").


----------



## Yellowdrive

(accidental repeat)


----------



## TheMeasure

Calibrel said:


> "Pussy Galore" is black dial pepsi, Fat Lady/Sophia Loren is the first coke reference no?


I could easily be wrong.



Yellowdrive said:


> I've noticed a few people referring to the Coke bezel Key West as the "Pussy Galore". I'm sure someone with more knowledge of Rolex history knows for sure, but that's not correct, is it? Honor Blackman wore the 6542, which had a dark blue and red bezel. The Coke bezel (black/red) didn't come along till much later. No?
> I don't see a lot of examples of the 6542 with a really crisp blue, but it's definitely blue. Actually, when I do see a really crisp blue/red bezel I tend to think of the 1675 (which I like to refer to as the "Thomas Magnum").


I too have heard others refer to the black/gilt coke as the "Pussy Galore". Hopefully one of our vintage Rolex aficionados can clarify. ;-)


----------



## Plat0

Metropolitan said:


> I was set on the white dial but am not sure about the yellowish lume.. Does it come across worse in the photos than is actually is?


Thats what I really want to know too.

That Lume looks awful against the white in MY opinion. But what do I know?


----------



## BigHaole

Plat0 said:


> Thats what I really want to know too.
> 
> That Lume looks awful against the white in MY opinion. But what do I know?


I believe it's C3, which has a greenish hue in real life. I'm not sure that makes it any better.


----------



## Plat0

LoL 

No it doesn't.


----------



## Arthur

Yellowdrive said:


> I've noticed a few people referring to the Coke bezel Key West as the "Pussy Galore". I'm sure someone with more knowledge of Rolex history knows for sure, but that's not correct, is it? Honor Blackman wore the 6542, which had a dark blue and red bezel. The Coke bezel (black/red) didn't come along till much later. No?
> I don't see a lot of examples of the 6542 with a really crisp blue, but it's definitely blue. Actually, when I do see a really crisp blue/red bezel I tend to think of the 1675 (which I like to refer to as the "Thomas Magnum").


Quote from The Rolex GMT Master 'Pepsi' - A Brief History
As if you needed more evidence that Rolex fans like to use nicknames, the 6542 is sometimes called the 'Pussy Galore' after Honor Blackman wore one in the James Bond film 'Goldfinger' in 1964&#8230; more than likely the mistake is made due to the color changes in the old Bakelite inserts. Some are such dark blue as to be almost black, just as the red is now a deep dark red almost a maroon color in many of the old inserts.
What is interesting, the ceramic "Pepsi" insert on the new 116710 GMT IIC is a deep dark red and dark blue, not a bright red/ blue like the previous aluminum "Pepsi" inserts.
You are correct on the timing of the "Coke" insert. It did not appear until 1984 in the 16760 GMTII "Sophia Loren" . While there are probably lots of earlier 1675's and 16750's sporting "Coke" inserts, they are certainly later replacements for the "Pepsi" inserts that were standard for those models.


----------



## 66Cooper

The fact that the dial is white/pearlescent makes the C3, which can appear more white on some dials, all the more apparently greenish.


----------



## STEELINOX

Socks, check, boots, check...

https://www.facebook.com/mkiiwatche...001493801796/1009933729041897/?type=3&theater


----------



## powerband

Really liking the coke bezel.










Are we there yet?

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Thieuster

Again, a great pic of the KW. But, I am still waiting for a pic of the Pepsi Version of the watch: black & gilt + pepsi. So please Bill, post a pic of that combination!

Menno


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: The more I looked at this, I am becoming more and more convinced --

*Is this the matte-dialed, non-gilt KW??*









_;-) --- Inquiring Minds Want to Know --- ;-)

_Happy Saturday -- |>|>


----------



## Yellowdrive

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: The more I looked at this, I am becoming more and more convinced --
> 
> *Is this the matte-dialed, non-gilt KW??*
> 
> View attachment 7812722
> 
> 
> _;-) --- Inquiring Minds Want to Know --- ;-)
> 
> _Happy Saturday -- |>|>


I think you're right. This feels more like a Nassau than a Kingston....


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Yellowdrive said:


> I think you're right. This feels more like a Nassau than a Kingston....


 It looks pretty dang good though....(cogitating over the purchase of a third key West....) :roll:


----------



## Plat0

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> It looks pretty dang good though....(cogitating over the purchase of a third key West....) :roll:


I'm going to try for my 2nd for the shear purpose of getting the matte dial and seeing if I would like it enough to keep it over the gilt black dial (which my Kingston already has VERY covered).


----------



## gwold

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> It looks pretty dang good though....(cogitating over the purchase of a third key West....) :roll:


Yep, I thought the same thing when I saw it. Matte/coke is the combo my stepson chose, so I've got this one on order.


----------



## BigHaole

Plat0 said:


> I'm going to try for my 2nd for the shear purpose of getting the matte dial and seeing if I would like it enough to keep it over the gilt black dial (which my Kingston already has VERY covered).


I have a matte gilt Tudor Black Bay, so I'm in for the gilt black dial KeyWest for comparison.


----------



## thejollywatcher

Since I loved my Nassau more than my Kingston before, I'm going for a matte black dial.....if live pics of the white dial fail to win my heart.


----------



## wingman87

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: The more I looked at this, I am becoming more and more convinced --
> 
> *Is this the matte-dialed, non-gilt KW??*
> 
> View attachment 7812722
> 
> 
> _;-) --- Inquiring Minds Want to Know --- ;-)
> 
> _Happy Saturday -- |>|>


Apparently this is the glossy gilt version, as Bill points out in a comment to this post on Instagram. Looks pretty amazing though! Since the blue seems to be not that dark, I am starting to lean towards coke.. And I am starting to enjoy changing my mind


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

wingman87 said:


> Apparently this is the glossy gilt version, as Bill points out in a comment to this post on Instagram. Looks pretty amazing though! Since the blue seems to be not that dark, I am starting to lean towards coke.. And I am starting to enjoy changing my mind


 Hey, Thanks for pointing that out. (I actually just noticed his comment myself.)

:think: I remember that when I 'lifted' the photo, my photo-editing software told me that there had been a change made (during editing of the original photo, but before it was first posted to the web....) in the 'color profile' and that could account for the change in the way the gilt (apparently) appears to reflect the light -- like the color temperature had changed - possible?

Anyway, it certainly is adding to the notion that the matt-dialed Key West is going to be a *stunner* as well.... :-!

--- Best ---

|>|>


----------



## White Tuna

Metropolitan said:


> I was set on the white dial but am not sure about the yellowish lume.. Does it come across worse in the photos than is actually is?


It is a consideration. I love C3 but it stands out in those photos. But they are photos so I think real world will not be that way all of the time.

I really wish C3 was used in the black gilt. I have recently fallen in love all over again with my C3 Kingston. SOOOOO good this time of year for some reason. I was in a meeting today, near a window and in the room in broad daylight the C3 lume was "glowing" and stood out so well.

I am curious to see what my white C3 looks like. I am more concerned with the dial color than the C3 though.

But I know that Bill had to have seen a demo so I think he would have been sure of the wrist presence of the piece.


----------



## mlb212

White Tuna said:


> It is a consideration. I love C3 but it stands out in those photos. But they are photos so I think real world will not be that way all of the time.
> 
> I really wish C3 was used in the black gilt. I have recently fallen in love all over again with my C3 Kingston. SOOOOO good this time of year for some reason. I was in a meeting today, near a window and in the room in broad daylight the C3 lume was "glowing" and stood out so well.
> 
> I am curious to see what my white C3 looks like. I am more concerned with the dial color than the C3 though.
> 
> But I know that Bill had to have seen a demo so I think he would have been sure of the wrist presence of the piece.


C3 is my favorite lume (aside from the lume of my fulcrum with its Lume-brik (TM) technology). I ordered a white gilt pepsi and a black gilt pepsi but these pics are starting to make me question that black gilt pepsi. Bill, if you are reading this; please post a pic of the black gilt pepsi next to the black gilt coke.


----------



## 66Cooper

I hear you. I LOVE my kingston with C3. I wish that was an option with the black Gilt dial but what can we do. I am trying to tell myself that it one of the "major" difference between the Kingston and Key West when my wife asks


----------



## Arthur

I agree, C3 is my favorite as well. Never been a real fan of "blue lume" on vintage or homages to vintage watches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> I agree, C3 is my favorite as well. Never been a real fan of "blue lume" on vintage or homages to vintage watches.


I may be the outlier here, but I like BGW-9 (white in sunlight, blue in glow) for a pilot's watch (Makes me think of an plane instrument) and C3 (green-ish off-white in sunlight, green in glow) for a dive watch, where the green looks better underwater.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> I may be the outlier here, but I like BGW-9 (white in sunlight, blue in glow) for a pilot's watch (Makes me think of an plane instrument) and C3 (green-ish off-white in sunlight, green in glow) for a dive watch, where the green looks better underwater.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


Bill clearly stated that he preferred the Kingston with the BGW9 and I knew it was going to be Bills choice for the black Key Wests when it came up. Bill likes the clean white of the lume on the dial in light IIRC.


----------



## mlb212

I took some pics that might help


----------



## BigHaole

Pepsi bezel shot:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BEfGWU6q-Rh/


----------



## BigHaole

From the instagram comments, there was a little white balancing, so the blue appears slightly darker than it really is. Too bad.


----------



## Dutchman72

BigHaole said:


> From the instagram comments, there was a little white balancing, so the blue appears slightly darker than it really is. Too bad.


Dam! That picture nearly made me change my mind back to a white dialled Pepsi. Looks like I'll probably be sticking to black/guilt/Pepsi then.


----------



## 66Cooper

Yeah, I was REALLY hoping for a super dark blue.


----------



## Yellowdrive

66Cooper said:


> Yeah, I was REALLY hoping for a super dark blue.


I'm sure a little wrist-time will give it all the extra character it needs.


----------



## 66Cooper

Well, if it's anything like my Kingston red triangle it will only get lighter. My red triangle is turning and interesting shade of pink


----------



## powerband

66Cooper said:


> Well, if it's anything like my Kingston red triangle it will only get lighter. My red triangle is turning and interesting shade of pink


Will you please share a picture of this fading red? I bet you it's turning into a beautiful patina.


----------



## Plat0

66Cooper said:


> Well, if it's anything like my Kingston red triangle it will only get lighter. My red triangle is turning and interesting shade of pink


I'd love to see that! Mine is still red as ever!


----------



## 66Cooper

Well, my phones camera is garbage so this is the best I can give you at the moment. Maybe more natural light would be better rather then direct sunlight.


----------



## powerband

Does your Kingston spend a lot of time in the sun?

To me that looks good.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Nothing out of the ordinary I would think. I mean, New Jersey is hardly the tropics


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> Well, my phones camera is garbage so this is the best I can give you at the moment. Maybe more natural light would be better rather then direct sunlight.


Mine looks nothing like this. Mine looks like the day I received it. I am not sure it would bother me if it did fade?


----------



## Fyrdoc

Any update on shipping?


----------



## Fyrdoc

Specifically Group 7 shipping, but I'll take any info..!


----------



## Fyrdoc

Of course, I'm also trying to get my post count up so I can clear out my drawer.


----------



## Fyrdoc

But that is a whole different story.


----------



## 66Cooper

Haha!

On my "tropic" red triangle Kingston: I dont want anyone to think I am complaining about it. I LOVE everything about mine. Knicks, dings, and faded bezels. Bill was very surprised as well when he saw it at the GTG. It starting to sound like mine is the only one that this is happening to. Kinda makes it that much more cooler to me


----------



## BigHaole

Looks who's peeking at us:


__
http://instagr.am/p/BEoNwUmK-Zr/

:-!:-!:-!:-!


----------



## 66Cooper

Awesome! Go Bill go!'


----------



## powerband

66Cooper said:


> On my "tropic" red triangle Kingston: I dont want anyone to think I am complaining about it. I LOVE everything about mine. Knicks, dings, and faded bezels. Bill was very surprised as well when he saw it at the GTG. It starting to sound like mine is the only one that this is happening to. Kinda makes it that much more cooler to me


I would want mine to fade like this over time.


----------



## BigHaole

Boxes are here!!!

__
http://instagr.am/p/BErXla3K-WC/

Now they just need to fill them.


----------



## 66Cooper

Things are movin and shakin up in MKII.


----------



## Knoc

BigHaole said:


> Boxes are here!!!
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BErXla3K-WC/
> 
> Now they just need to fill them.


Thats progress and I like it.


----------



## Arthur

Looks like from the timeline on the website, delivery of the plank orders is getting pretty close. My guess, and this is just a guess, deliveries will be happening by the beginning to middle of May. Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and it ain't a locomotive!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ayung

hey guys, can i pre order the key west? or is it sold out??


----------



## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> Looks like from the timeline on the website, delivery of the plank orders is getting pretty close. My guess, and this is just a guess, deliveries will be happening by the beginning to middle of May. Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and it ain't a locomotive!!


Oh, Arthur...that timeline hasn't moved in something like a year.


----------



## BigHaole

ayung said:


> hey guys, can i pre order the key west? or is it sold out??


ayung, I haven't been watching closely, but the page still shows the 2nd stage pre-order as being open. There was a monthly lottery to get a pre-order slot. Even if it is closed, there will be some units available as part of a general ordering period, after the pre-orders are filled. And, there will certainly be watched flipped. I've already seen at least one pop up, selling a pre-order slot.


----------



## ayung

BigHaole said:


> ayung, I haven't been watching closely, but the page still shows the 2nd stage pre-order as being open. There was a monthly lottery to get a pre-order slot. Even if it is closed, there will be some units available as part of a general ordering period, after the pre-orders are filled. And, there will certainly be watched flipped. I've already seen at least one pop up, selling a pre-order slot.


I registered for the 1st batch but seems i did not get the ticket for pred order.. Hope can get in the 2nd batch..

This will save me getting rolie 16750..

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

BigHaole said:


> Boxes are here!!!
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BErXla3K-WC/
> 
> Now they just need to fill them.


Thanks for the heads-up. This is one more good thing.


----------



## CBM_DOC

The realist in me says it will probably be later, but the optimist wakes up every morning and whispers "soon, soon". I guess Gollum in Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit never saw an MKII, or he would have something else to call "my precious, my precious." Of course, as rascally as he is, I wouldn't want him lusting after my Key West!

Dave


----------



## Jfha1210

The end is near... Now thinking about this 









Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

CBM_DOC said:


> The realist in me says it will probably be later, but the optimist wakes up every morning and whispers "soon, soon". I guess Gollum in Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit never saw an MKII, or he would have something else to call "my precious, my precious." Of course, as rascally as he is, I wouldn't want him lusting after my Key West!


The optimist in me keeps coming here to check...every day.


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> Oh, Arthur...that timeline hasn't moved in something like a year.


My bad!! Haven't gone to the MKII website in months. Still believe that good things are going to happen pretty soon!!

@Jfha1210 that's my plan as well. I'm hoping to get a Rolex cyclops installed pretty soon after I get my watch. May take some modding to get the cyclops to sit flat on the curved glass, but that's not an impossible task.


----------



## 66Cooper

Jfha1210 said:


> The end is near... Now thinking about this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


I'm TOTALLY in on this. This will really set this watch apart from my key west.


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> I'm TOTALLY in on this. This will really set this watch apart from my key west.


I am very much looking forward to seeing how others do with an aftermarket cyclops. I'd really love a cyclops on the Key West (so my old eyes can enjoy that beautiful date wheel). But I'm not a DIY guy and I'm thinking that, if it were easy...Bill would offer it. But I look forward to being proved wrong!


----------



## mindaddy

I've never been more excited to see a pic post of empty boxes! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

BigHaole said:


> I am very much looking forward to seeing how others do with an aftermarket cyclops. I'd really love a cyclops on the Key West (so my old eyes can enjoy that beautiful date wheel). But I'm not a DIY guy and I'm thinking that, if it were easy...Bill would offer it. But I look forward to being proved wrong!


You are very much correct. The cyclops is definitely NOT a DIY project. Especially if fitted to the original domed crystal. This will have to be done by a pro for sure...if it can be at all.


----------



## Calibrel

66Cooper said:


> You are very much correct. The cyclops is definitely NOT a DIY project. Especially if fitted to the original domed crystal. This will have to be done by a pro for sure...if it can be at all.


I don't see why not as long as someone doesn't try putting a cyclops designed for a flat crystal on a domed crystal. That is, if they know it's within their skill set.

Why wouldn't some of the Tropic cyclops work that fit the original GMT Masters? (providing the curvature is close enough)


----------



## TheDude

Calibrel said:


> I don't see why not as long as someone doesn't try putting a cyclops designed for a flat crystal on a domed crystal. That is, if they know it's within their skill set.
> 
> Why wouldn't some of the Tropic cyclops work that fit the original GMT Masters? (providing the curvature is close enough)


Those crystals are flat... Also, the plexi crystals use cyclopses that are part of the actual crystal. They're not affixed as far as I can tell.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

66Cooper said:


> You are very much correct. The cyclops is definitely NOT a DIY project. Especially if fitted to the original domed crystal. This will have to be done by a pro for sure...if it can be at all.


I liked your post, even if I do not like what it said.


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> Those crystals are flat... Also, the plexi crystals use cyclopses that are part of the actual crystal. They're not affixed as far as I can tell.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


Can you try to pry one off for us please?


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> Can you try to pry one off for us please?
> View attachment 7941786


I know you're joking but there isn't a seam. It truly is part of the crystal. That's why you see polished plexis that have distorted cyclopses - they polish over them in a sloppy manner.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## Yellowdrive

I'm surprised at how much interest there is in adding a cyclops to the Key West. I'm not a big fan of date-magnifiers to begin with, but I feel like adding something to the crystal after the fact (let alone swapping the crystal out entirely) would really detract from the stock piece. 
I thought I read somewhere that there was an option for the 6542 to order one without a cyclops. I could be wrong; does anyone else have any knowledge about this? If true, there is at least some historical precedent for a plain, domed crystal on a 6542.


----------



## BigHaole

Yellowdrive said:


> I'm surprised at how much interest there is in adding a cyclops to the Key West.


As my eyes get older, the font seems to get smaller.  I have one watch with a date wheel and no magnifier (Boshett Cave Dweller II). I find it less comfortable/enjoyable to read the date on this watch, compared to watches I have (even with smaller dials), which have a magnifier.

I agree that I don't like the idea of adding it, after market, and I certainly won't be the one to go first. But I am curious to see if it can be done in a way that looks professional. I suspect it isn't easy, or Bill would have considered it, given how many of us asked about (and were willing to pay for) a cyclops.


----------



## 66Cooper

Certainly not easy. A few things to think about though. The key west as a standard ETA movement which means the date wheel is located in a "common" place. If a new (maybe a tall flat one) crystal is in order it would just be finding one with the same overall diameter, made for the ETA movement/date wheel location. 
Not saying I would go that route as well. Just fun to discuss. I would be VERY interested in seeing if it could happen.


----------



## BigHaole

Look at the happy casebacks!


__
http://instagr.am/p/BEwfGcUK-Xo/


----------



## Darwin

I love the 1680 sub. Love the cyclops magnifier. When I finally landed a Kingston, as I waited for it to wing its way to me from the UK, I spent a considerable amount of time researching getting a magnifier (cyclops) onto it. Purchasing a flat sapphire crystal for it and fitting a 2.5x magnifier (available from Ofrei) seemed the way to go. I was periolously close to buying those parts. Then the Kingston arrived... I realized that it simply does not need the cyclops. I am positive that the Key West will be the same. Just my humble opinion, of course, but there it is... When push comes to shove, I don't think I'd even _like _the Kingston with a cyclops installed. I am open to being proven wrong, though! I think the only MKII I've seen with a retrofitted cyclops was a LRRP?


----------



## vandergl

I love the idea of the cyclops however I would never venture adding one to any of my MKIIs. Someday I'll breakdown and buy a Yacht Master or a GMT Master. I'll probably have to put my 6 MKIIs on the market to do so....dread the thought


----------



## STEELINOX

Cyclops = is like a sock in the eye (err "dial") !

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## STEELINOX

Cyclops = an "optical delusion" !

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## STEELINOX

Okay, I'm finished now, you may return to your regularly scheduled "design ideas"!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## Calibrel

Aaahh, I see what you're saying now. When looking up this issue previously, I thought what I had come across were curved magnifiers for domed crystals. You're saying that they're domed crystals with the magnifier being one piece with it. Gotcha.


----------



## Jfha1210

Some "Pepsi optical delusion socks design ideas" for you... 









Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

IT'S REALLY HAPPENING!!!!!

2016-04-29: Project GMT


The inserts that we have on hand have been QC'd and are ready to be used. We will have to re-order the inserts so this will increase the chances that everyone will get their first choices.
We have completed the inspection for the first 200 case backs. We had a few bad ones but fortunately those case backs were not allocated to Plankowners. So to re-phrase&#8230;.all Plankowner case backs are present and accounted for. We had one Plankowner case back with some light scratches. We have emailed that Plankowner to notify them of their options and to invite feedback before delivery.
Scheduling: I will begin the scheduling process next week. That doesn't necessarily mean that delivery dates will be published by next week though.
Shipments: We expect to begin shipments within the next 2 weeks.


----------



## BigHaole

I'm so happy!


----------



## TheDude

Calibrel said:


> Aaahh, I see what you're saying now. When looking up this issue previously, I thought what I had come across were curved magnifiers for domed crystals. You're saying that they're domed crystals with the magnifier being one piece with it. Gotcha.


No. They're raised crystals but flat with the magnifier being part of it.










Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

So so SOOO excited to see that update. A key west for the summer


----------



## Arthur

With all of the vintage Rolex watches with acrylic crystals, the cyclops was and integral part of the crystal, one piece if you will. The later sapphire crystals have a glued on magnifier. On watches with cyclops, Rolex uses a flat top crystal with cyclops. The Key West will have a domed sapphire which poses a problem as the bottom of the cyclops has to be contoured to fit the curve of the glass.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## mindaddy

I like the fact that it doesn't have the cyclops. Have it in my gmt iic- it's a distraction and makes it harder to read the gmt hand. IMHO. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

I think the large vintage font date numerals will help make it look better and be easier to read. Probably not a bad thing.

Little vintage factoid, back in the days of acrylic crystals you could specify a different crystal on your new Rolex. Some vintage guys will have nonstandard crystals affixed during service.

For example, a super dome on a 1680...










A less aggressive tropic 38 on a 1675...










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

That tropic 38 looks amazing. Like a giant drop of water over the dial


----------



## supersmitty

Duplicate post


----------



## 66Cooper

You wait for the KW to arrive, send it off to a VERY trusted Watchsmith, remove the original crystal, find a new flat-top with cyclops crystal with the exact same diameter that is also designed to work with the 2893-2 movement. Simple! 

OR

Find a flat crystal that will fit and have said watchsmith glue a magnifier onto it. 

I really cant see ever getting one that would work with the domed crystal though. I'm no expert but that seems very far fetched. I do like the idea of a tall-boy/flattop crystal like what was posted earlier that has a cyclops installed. Might look really great. Might look terrible and ruin the entire watch, making it worth less then the metal it was made out of...but I'd still be super interested to see it. haha.


----------



## Fyrdoc

This thread has been this quiet for 6 days?!? Is everyone just holding their breath?


----------



## Fyrdoc

I mean, I know there is no news, but that's never stopped us before.


----------



## Plat0

I am actually holding my breath...


My head hurts.


----------



## STEELINOX

Fyrdoc said:


> This thread has been this quiet for 6 days?!? Is everyone just holding their breath?


I breath normally...


----------



## BigHaole

The 4/29 update said they expect to begin shipments within the next two weeks. Two weeks will be this Friday! So, for those of you who have been reporting your placement at or near the top of the plank list (I'm near the bottom of the plank), what configuration did you order and when will you start posting pictures?


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> The 4/29 update said they expect to begin shipments within the next two weeks. Two weeks will be this Friday! So, for those of you who have been reporting your placement at or near the top of the plank list (I'm near the bottom of the plank), what configuration did you order and when will you start posting pictures?


Pictures within a day of getting the watch!! When I get the watch!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> Pictures within a day of getting the watch!! When I get the watch!!


Arthur, can you remind us what combination you ordered?


----------



## 66Cooper

I'm on the plank list but honestly have no idea where I am in the group. I mean, I plunked down my money the second I could I am going with black, gilt, Pepsi. You better believe that pix will be posted the moment I receive it.


----------



## Maxy

66Cooper said:


> I'm on the plank list but honestly have no idea where I am in the group. I mean, I plunked down my money the second I could I am going with black, gilt, Pepsi. You better believe that pix will be posted the moment I receive it.


PLANK owners are 'before' the group members. Groups is only for 2nd stage pre-orders.. so first all PLANK owners will get the watch.. then from 2nd stage set - Group A, Group B, Group C.. so on.


----------



## 66Cooper

Right, I thought you meant there were differnt groups inside the Plank group. I mean, there are only 60 of us so I'm not too worried;-) I guess we will see how Bill goes about this though. Will he build a handful of on config, ship and then start on another? Something tells me that if that is the case, we will see a handful of white dialed KW's hitting the mean streets first.


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> Arthur, can you remind us what combination you ordered?


I ordered the white/Gilt w/ Pepsi insert.


----------



## Arthur

66Cooper said:


> Right, I thought you meant there were differnt groups inside the Plank group. I mean, there are only 60 of us so I'm not too worried;-) I guess we will see how Bill goes about this though. Will he build a handful of on config, ship and then start on another? Something tells me that if that is the case, we will see a handful of white dialed KW's hitting the mean streets first.


If you remember, that was the way the Kingstons were set up. However they were assembled in Switzerland and were delivered in batches of 25 if I remember correctly. That was one of the things that made some folks so angry. You could be the fifth guy to pay your deposit, but if your configuration was in the third group to be delivered, a whole bunch of people that were behind you but got their watches first, because they happened to be lucky enough to be in the first or second batch of watches. 
Since Bill is building these in house, and the choices are so much more limited, will be pretty easy to assemble them in the order the deposits were received. Black or White dial, Pepsi or Coke insert, whole lot simpler!!


----------



## 66Cooper

Yes, things sure are a lot simpler for Bill this time around. 
That reminds me...I haven't checked up on my custom dark blue leather strap in awhile. Better get on it!


----------



## BigHaole

I'm pretty sure I remember Bill saying that the assembly/delivery would be "roughly" in the order deposits were received. I'm in the plank, but I waited a few days before I placed my deposit, so I'm certainly not going to be in very first ones out the door. But my question is...will I receive it before my July trip? Of course, I've asked this question the last 3 years, so I'm not getting my hopes up too much. But you never know.

BTW, anyone notice that only 20 of the Graywaters have been assembled? I hope that's not indicative of the production rate on the KeyWest...


----------



## Fyrdoc

BigHaole said:


> I'm pretty sure I remember Bill saying that the assembly/delivery would be "roughly" in the order deposits were received. I'm in the plank, but I waited a few days before I placed my deposit, so I'm certainly not going to be in very first ones out the door. But my question is...will I receive it before my July trip? Of course, I've asked this question the last 3 years, so I'm not getting my hopes up too much. But you never know.
> 
> BTW, anyone notice that only 20 of the Graywaters have been assembled? I hope that's not indicative of the production rate on the KeyWest...


If it is, I'll see mine in two years (I'm group 7)


----------



## Fyrdoc

BigHaole said:


> I'm pretty sure I remember Bill saying that the assembly/delivery would be "roughly" in the order deposits were received. I'm in the plank, but I waited a few days before I placed my deposit, so I'm certainly not going to be in very first ones out the door. But my question is...will I receive it before my July trip? Of course, I've asked this question the last 3 years, so I'm not getting my hopes up too much. But you never know.
> 
> BTW, anyone notice that only 20 of the Graywaters have been assembled? I hope that's not indicative of the production rate on the KeyWest...


If it is, I'll see mine in two years (I'm group 7)


----------



## Darwin

Where are you having the strap made and can you share any details, or is it a trade secret?!



66Cooper said:


> Yes, things sure are a lot simpler for Bill this time around.
> That reminds me...I haven't checked up on my custom dark blue leather strap in awhile. Better get on it!


----------



## BigHaole

Darwin said:


> Where are you having the strap made and can you share any details, or is it a trade secret?!


I can't comment on Mr. 66Cooper, but I have ordered some custom leather straps for other watches, from Malio Straps. Malio Straps I'm very happy with the results, particularly if you're looking for a "vintage" look.


----------



## 66Cooper

Getting mine from Coq straps. He made me my very fav strap, to my very specific schematics. Having one made exactly the same, but in deep, dark blue and with white stitch rather then vintage thread...to go with the white lume on the black dial


----------



## BigHaole

Any shipping notices yet? I'm hoping Bill's been so busy assembling and shipping KeyWests that he hasn't had time to update the project page.


----------



## 66Cooper

Funny, I was just thinking the exact same thing. Something tells me we're going to be hearing something very soon


----------



## Jfha1210

I'm quite sure that I will take my Key West to my trip to the US next summer... If not, AS I will be near Philadelphia next July, I may pick it at MKII HQs... 

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## POR901

*2016-05-17: Project GMT Scheduling*

*May 17, 2016 By admin*
I know everyone, including myself, is chomping at the bit to see these start rolling out here. We are finalizing the scheduling for the Plankowners. This is what I can tell you at this point:


We will be scheduling shipments by dial type. So Key West 1001/1002s will scheduled as a group, for example. Trying to schedule the orders strictly by chronological order would actually slow us down since its faster to assemble in batches by similar parts. That being said we will do our best to follow the chronological order.
Right now we are trying to figure out how far in advance we can provide meaningful shipping estimates. This comes down to a matter of accuracy and how often we may have to manually revise and update the dates as a result of the pace of deliveries. The more we have to update this information the more time it takes away from actual assembly and shipping.
The summer: In order to stay focused on assembly and shipping I will be canceling my personal vacation this year. Normally I go back to Taiwan to visit my in-laws in July. Unfortunately the return leg of the trip is just too disruptive as I usually spend weeks trying to get over jet lag.


----------



## mlb212

I think its crazy to cancel vacation. I would just as well push those shipments back a month.



POR901 said:


> *2016-05-17: Project GMT Scheduling*
> 
> *May 17, 2016 By admin*
> I know everyone, including myself, is chomping at the bit to see these start rolling out here. We are finalizing the scheduling for the Plankowners. This is what I can tell you at this point:
> 
> 
> We will be scheduling shipments by dial type. So Key West 1001/1002s will scheduled as a group, for example. Trying to schedule the orders strictly by chronological order would actually slow us down since its faster to assemble in batches by similar parts. That being said we will do our best to follow the chronological order.
> Right now we are trying to figure out how far in advance we can provide meaningful shipping estimates. This comes down to a matter of accuracy and how often we may have to manually revise and update the dates as a result of the pace of deliveries. The more we have to update this information the more time it takes away from actual assembly and shipping.
> The summer: In order to stay focused on assembly and shipping I will be canceling my personal vacation this year. Normally I go back to Taiwan to visit my in-laws in July. Unfortunately the return leg of the trip is just too disruptive as I usually spend weeks trying to get over jet lag.


----------



## 66Cooper

Wow, that's dedication. This brand is amazing


----------



## MHe225

POR901 said:


> The summer: In order to stay focused on assembly and shipping I will be canceling my personal vacation this year. Normally I go back to Taiwan to visit my in-laws in July. Unfortunately the return leg of the trip is just too disruptive as I usually spend weeks trying to get over jet lag.


Anyone???

Now that is commitment |>

Don't blame you if you do take this vacation ..... what's one more month amongst friends? :-d


----------



## powerband

No food, no water, and certainly no vacation. Get these Key Wests shipped first.

Seriously, a personal vacation might be a good thing. That way you don't ship me the wrong configuration. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

powerband said:


> No food, no water, and certainly no vacation. Get these Key Wests shipped first.
> 
> Seriously, a personal vacation might be a good thing. That way you don't ship me the wrong configuration.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Guys, you're missing the point. He's skipping his vacation to see his IN-LAWS. Believe me, I've tried this line many times and my wife isn't buying it. Bill's living the dream!


----------



## Plat0

BigHaole said:


> Guys, you're missing the point. He's skipping his vacation to see his IN-LAWS. Believe me, I've tried this line many times and my wife isn't buying it. Bill's living the dream!


+100!

I can't believe you guys didn't understand this until this post! Bill is actually taking a vacation this year!


----------



## POR901

Just received word from Bill that the Plankowners Key West will begin shipping out next week.

There's also some very interesting news from Bill coming out shortly......


----------



## goyoneuff

Indeed brother....  .

You beat me here... I posted the May date in other post...  


POR901 said:


> Just received word from Bill that the Plankowners Key West will begin shipping out next week.
> 
> There's also some very interesting news from Bill coming out shortly......


----------



## powerband

I get it now. Inlaws... root canal without anesthesia.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## mindaddy

Nice! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Soziev

Nice color


----------



## Soziev

Good deal


----------



## Nokie

Lol.....


----------



## powerband

Awesome


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Flip.willy

Is this the week?? Excited for you plank owners, and excited for the flood of pictures. Can someone remind me the crown size on the gmt vs the Kingston. Having trouble finding it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Flip.willy said:


> Is this the week?? Excited for you plank owners, and excited for the flood of pictures. Can someone remind me the crown size on the gmt vs the Kingston. Having trouble finding it.


:think: A.I.R. Vantage-sized, about 6.5mm.... Its back there somewhere in this massive thread... :-d


----------



## Chromejob

My recollection, too; smaller by a tick than the Nassau standard crown.

At the risk of changing anyone's design notions, I've become quite enamored of the *white sweep second hand* of my Nassau 3-6-9. I now require reading glasses for anything 18" to 24" from my face, so most watches are bit blurry to me. Dive watches continue to be highly readable. But the rhodium hands (as well as gold hands) sort of disappear in certain light, leaving only the lume. The white hand is highly visible even in dim light. Great for when I'm grinding coffee beans in the wee early hours, and glance down at my wrist to track 10 seconds.

My point: on the non-gilt, white marked black dial, that white sweep second hand would look fab on the KW, as it does on my Nassau. The project page indicates the KW white on black dial is not necessarily a LE-only option, so in a general production of a GMT-Master homage, the white hand would be great. I believe I've seen this in the wild on 6542, or maybe 1675s.










Those getting the white on black dial should consider asking Bill to sell them a white sweep second hand.


----------



## Plat0

The first Key West has shipped!


----------



## 66Cooper

What!!!


----------



## Plat0




----------



## 66Cooper

I guess that answers that question...and that my wait will be just a bit longer


----------



## wingman87

This looks so gorgeous, it throws me right back into the dial choice conundrum..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

As we said in the Coast Guard Falcon on approach,...

"Landing gear down, landing checks...!"


----------



## Calibrel

This photo solidifies my final choice. 

After seeing the pepsi on white vs the coke on black I had second thoughts about the pepsi bezel, but not anymore.

Wow. Gorgeous!


----------



## cybercat

Calibrel said:


> This photo solidifies my final choice.
> 
> After seeing the pepsi on white vs the coke on black I had second thoughts about the pepsi bezel, but not anymore.
> 
> Wow. Gorgeous!


Yes, agree, & definitely gorgeous, as I'd hoped - just confirmed my order & paid 2nd installment :-!


----------



## 66Cooper

Oh, PLEASE let that be my watch! Please, please, PLEASE!!!


----------



## 66Cooper

Repost


----------



## Jfha1210

Pepsi insert, black guilted all the way... 
Pls pls plsss May I have it as soon as possible? 
Lets say... Today

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## jussi

...oh well... Can't be My black, gilt dial w. Pepsi bezel... Cause I haven't gotten My shipping notification in My mailbox.... Yet :think:


----------



## jussi

Oh! By the way... Has any of you other "plank's" gotten any serialnumber confirmation from Bill?
Cause I haven't


----------



## 66Cooper

Do you mean a confirmation of the SS number you requested specially or just were assigned. I am not sure if Bill was ever "officially" taking special request. 

The best I ever got a was confirmation that my requested SS number (to match my Kingstons) would be noted and put in the comments section of my order. There was no guarantee it could happen.


----------



## jussi

Confirmation on any of the requested numbers when making the second payment. (He was taking special requests by that time, though no guarantee)


----------



## wingman87

Some more eye candy for those of you without Instagram 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

Well, where's the candy!!


----------



## wingman87

66Cooper said:


> Well, where's the candy!!


I guess my lack of technological proficiency is one of the reasons why I love mechanical watches 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gwold

wingman87 said:


> Some more eye candy for those of you without Instagram
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That just might be the best look at/for this watch yet!


----------



## Jfha1210

True beautiful... I think that this will become the epitome of an MKII watch... 

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

Jfha1210 said:


> True beautiful... I think that this will become the epitome of an MKII watch...
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


I agree. The KW is going to set the bar very, very high for anything that comes later! 
That Black/Gilt is really beautiful. If I didn't already have a Rolex 16750, that would have been my choice. When I look in my watch box and see all those black faces staring up at me, I know the White/Gilt was the right choice for me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

That's what my wife said. "How many black dials can you possible have"....but I still went for it. I just LOVE the classic Pussy Galore look


----------



## Chromejob

"Purrrrrfect, she said. "

His previous two posts had easter eggs in them, for those who know how obsessive Bill is about the details. I showed my daughter how the hands interacted one night with my Kingston, and she said, "Y'know, sometimes you're a pretty *cool dad*."

But I have to say, Pantone discussions be darned, he nailed that Pepsi bezel color scheme dead on target. Center mass, direct hit. Beautiful!


----------



## powerband

How many of you post-plank owners have received the email to make (and pay for) your final configuration but are waiting to see live pictures of the Key West first?

I received my email to make my final configuration about a week ago (group 4), but I'm trying to hold off until real-world pictures. 


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## eXis10z

I've gotten the email to confirm my choices but have yet to do so. Really agonizing over black or white dial.


----------



## White Tuna

eXis10z said:


> I've gotten the email to confirm my choices but have yet to do so. Really agonizing over black or white dial.


You may be in luck as more pictures and reviews of both should be coming out soon. As they say every cloud has a gilt lining.


----------



## eXis10z

White Tuna said:


> You may be in luck as more pictures and reviews of both should be coming out soon. As they say every cloud has a gilt lining.


I hope so. We are given the time frame of 30 days to finalise from the date of email.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Arthur

Hooefully, there will be some real world photos pretty soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## powerband

Arthur said:


> Hopefully, there will be some real world photos pretty soon.


If Dietmar is nice. 

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

eXis10z said:


> I hope so. We are given the time frame of 30 days to finalise from the date of email.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe beyond the 30-day timeframe the place-order for shipment is no longer guaranteed. It's still your watch.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

The black gilt and white gilt dials are LE only, but it's a possibility that there will be a production run of a similar GMT watch with the black-white dial. If that helps the Tipping Point at all.....


----------



## TheDude

First watch received - there's a thread for those who use Tapatalk and don't always check the forum landing.


----------



## goyoneuff

And white...

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=3266114


----------



## Chromejob

For those who snarked this day might never come ... _Pfffffft!!_

My HVAC is down, volunteer chores are wearing me down, regular lady friend is cocooning in her femme cave, but ... this is a bright, beautiful day. The Key Wests are leaving the nest.

Awesome.


----------



## 66Cooper

I LOVE that bill released a white and a black gilt for the first two. Well played sir!


----------



## eXis10z

powerband said:


> I believe beyond the 30-day timeframe the place-order for shipment is no longer guaranteed. It's still your watch.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


What do you mean?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

eXis10z said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your shipment might be slotted later if you take more than 30 days to finalize your order. Since you made a deposit, it's still reserved for you -- you just might receive it later than original "scheduled."

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## eXis10z

powerband said:


> Your shipment might be slotted later if you take more than 30 days to finalize your order. Since you made a deposit, it's still reserved for you -- you just might receive it later than original "scheduled."
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Ah ok. Thanks for the explanation.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Calibrel

Chromejob said:


> His previous two posts had easter eggs in them, for those who know how obsessive Bill is about the details.


Please, do share!


----------



## powerband

eXis10z said:


> Ah ok. Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And, in fact, even after your selection you can still change your configuration if your watch hasn't entered its final building stage.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Chromejob

Calibrel said:


> Please, do share!


Watch the hands.


----------



## Calibrel

Now feel inadequate. Still not getting it

7:12:37

6:58:06

6:39:58


----------



## BigHaole

Calibrel said:


> Now feel inadequate. Still not getting it
> 
> 7:12:37
> 
> 6:58:06
> 
> 6:39:58


Yeah, that was a great Easter egg. Very clever. Chromejob, I know you and I got it, but why don't you explain it, so the rest of the crew who didn't get it won't feel so bad.


----------



## Pentameter

BigHaole said:


> Yeah, that was a great Easter egg. Very clever. Chromejob, I know you and I got it, but why don't you explain it, so the rest of the crew who didn't get it won't feel so bad.


I agree. I mean, I got it INSTANTLY, but I just want to make sure YOU really got it&#8230;


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> Yeah, that was a great Easter egg. Very clever. Chromejob, I know you and I got it, but why don't you explain it, so the rest of the crew who didn't get it won't feel so bad.


Please, I thought I recognized what it was, but now not so sure. Let all of us clods in on the secret!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

Arthur said:


> Please, I thought I recognized what it was, but now not so sure. Let all of us clods in on the secret!!


Chromejob, you explain it better than I do. Why don't you take this one.


----------



## Thieuster

BigHaole said:


> Chromejob, you explain it better than I do. Why don't you take this one.


Indeed! Don't be too modest! Your instant recognition of the easter egg is already a victory of your alertness & awareness when it comes to studying Bill's pictures. Almost two pages of this thread with open invitations of members who would like to be enlightened. Surely, you must feel an urge to share it with us.

Menno


----------



## White Tuna

Thieuster said:


> Indeed! Don't be too modest! Your instant recognition of the easter egg is already a victory of your alertness & awareness when it comes to studying Bill's pictures. Almost two pages of this thread with open invitations of members who would like to be enlightened. Surely, you must feel an urge to share it with us.
> 
> Menno


Pfffffft! Forums are not for information sharing. And I know who is better than me and who is not worthy of me based exclusively on post counts.


----------



## Thieuster

White Tuna said:


> Pfffffft! Forums are not for information sharing. And I know who is better than me and who is not worthy of me based exclusively on post counts.


Good point! I'm closing in: 2,177 post counts and my 1,510. But then again; your post/day average is higher than mine! So better back to my request for Chromejob, hoping for the Unveiling of the Mystery Easter Egg.

*must post more often on WUS*
*watched the hands again, still no idea about the EE...

Menno


----------



## Calibrel

Oooooh, now I feel so silly that it was so obvious I originally overlooked it!

Too bad I don't have time to explain, gotta get back to OT!


----------



## White Tuna

I am horologicaly agnostic and I do not acknowledge watch Easter.


----------



## Flip.willy

What lume did Bill use on the white Kingston that he has? It looks less green to me than the white kw, but not sure if it is just the pics. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Plat0

Flip.willy said:


> What lume did Bill use on the white Kingston that he has? It looks less green to me than the white kw, but not sure if it is just the pics.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same as before. The lume is still too green for me.


----------



## Chromejob

Sorry, chums, day job has kept me busy.

The proportion of the hands is such that the sweep second hand forms an "i" with a baton hour marker, and a "snowman" with the hour hand pip...










... And the counterweight of the second hand should eclipse the hour hand pip....










My daughter at ten thought it was as cool as I did at fifty.

I'd posted about this with the Kingston (the pics are my Kingston), I'm just delighted to see it on a gmt version.  Sorry if anyone thought I was teasing.


----------



## enyn90

is the order fully closed?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

enyn90 said:


> is the order fully closed?


 Hey There. I believe the order is closed, but there may be an opportunity in the future --

To be notifed, if such an opportunity does arise, click on the *Notify Me* button on this page --->

Pre-order 50% Deposit: Project GMT - Key West GMT - Limited Edition Series

 I can confirm that the MKII notification system works well, as I have been _"notified" _many times.... :-d

--- Good Luck ---


----------



## Arthur

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Hey There. I believe the order is closed, but there may be an opportunity in the future --
> 
> To be notifed, if such an opportunity does arise, click on the *Notify Me* button on this page --->
> 
> Pre-order 50% Deposit: Project GMT - Key West GMT - Limited Edition Series
> 
> I can confirm that the MKII notification system works well, as I have been _"notified" _many times.... :-d
> 
> --- Good Luck ---


To further expand on whatOmegaCosmicMan wrote, in one of the updates on the MKII website, it was stated that there would be 50 watches allocated to the "general ordering". Not sure if that is still a valid number, but with the interest shown thus far, I can just about guarantee that when the general ordering opens, they will be gone in a flash. Get on the "notify me" email list, and when you see the email, you better act quickly. Don't tarry because they will be gone.
Good luck

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Arthur speaks the truth!


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

So, no ones has gotten an email yet? No one!?? Look, now is not the time to worry about bragging or anything. I'm dying to find out if any or moving.


----------



## Chromejob

enyn90 said:


> is the order fully closed?


A derivation of the KW may be available in the future like the Nassau was based on the Kingston. The gilt dials (black and white) are LE only, as well as gold hands IIRC, so Bill is probably reserving the opportunity to release a white on black dial 6542 homage with rhodium hands (and white sweep second would be sa-weet) later on. Don't hold your breath, but it could happen. Depends upon so many things, including but by no means limited to movement availability, popularity and prestige of the KW, alignment of the planets, etc.


----------



## BigHaole

Chromejob said:


> ...Depends upon so many things, including but by no means limited to movement availability, popularity and prestige of the KW, alignment of the planets, etc.


...and ability to build all the watches that MKII fans are already trying to get. 

On a not unrelated subject, any idea what the next project watch will be and when it will start?


----------



## Arthur

BigHaole said:


> ...and ability to build all the watches that MKII fans are already trying to get.
> 
> On a not unrelated subject, any idea what the next project watch will be and when it will start?


I can only speculate, but I would guess the next project, which may be already formulated in Bill's mind, is a ways away from actually being a formal project. With the Key West just starting deliveries, the project 300 still a ways out from production, the Stingray II/Tornak Rayville promised, I doubt that any more LE projects will be anytime soon. I would bet that there will be more and different models of the "ready to wear" coming down the pike though.
.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

66Cooper said:


> So, no ones has gotten an email yet? No one!?? Look, now is not the time to worry about bragging or anything. I'm dying to find out if any or moving.


 I log into my eBoutique account at least two times a day... To Check.... so far I see:



> 1.1 Awaiting Scheduling











---- Meanwhile ----












The other 'Boutique Guys' are having a '*Hay Day*'....




















:think: In a year where I was supposed to cut back on procuring watches...... :roll:

I have three of NTH's new line on order....




















Two Borealis' watches to come .... The 'Estoril 300' (gotta compare you know...) and the 'Bull Shark' (competition for the King??)














And 'Landed' (so far....) :roll:

Two Prometheus Poseidon's...














A couple (or three or four...or ???) 'titaniums' ....












???

A bunch of 'beater Blackwaters'




















A* 'Back to Black' Paradive *....






--- :-! (Oh, Yeah........)

And another Vantage that was 'too big' for M'Lady....






:roll:

And at least two (actual number must remain confidential....) 'Spur of the Moment' others....














Please Bill --- How long? At this rate I won't be able to get that new *Fulcrum* or new *Tournek-Rayville* *II*..... or new *StingRay II*.... or... ????

(sigh)


















...."Enjoying".... _( or Enduring????)_ ...... The Wait...... ;-)

---- Have a Great Day ----

|>|>


----------



## White Tuna

I received an email. First one complete. Second in build mode.


----------



## 66Cooper

Great to hear.


----------



## CBM_DOC

Congratulations White Tuna! Now if I could only get one of those emails....

Dave


----------



## White Tuna

I will take pictures when they get here but be aware my photography skills are actually in the negative. Not only do my pictures not come out well, they come out worse than a security camera.


----------



## Arthur

Glad to see that some are moving along. Keep waiting for the email, but thus far nothing. 
What configurations did you order by the way?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

Arthur said:


> Glad to see that some are moving along. Keep waiting for the email, but thus far nothing.
> What configurations did you order by the way?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1001 and 1004

White Pepsi
Black Gilt Coke


----------



## Arthur

Very good choices!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

BTW, just got my "build in progress" email!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Cooper

Remember how I posted that I wanted everyone to post when they got their emails? Well, you can stop now!!! Haha, just kidding. It's wonderful to hear things are moving along. I can't wait to see more arrive and more pix start flooding in.


----------



## powerband

White Tuna and Arthur, that's great news! You guys are about to crest a long hill.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## White Tuna

powerband said:


> White Tuna and Arthur, that's great news! You guys are about to crest a long hill.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


I don't know. Everything is happening so fast. Now that I am getting ready to graduate Key West and have no MKII's in the pipeline I feel a little lost. Nobody ever prepares you on how not to wait for a MKII watch. The system has failed me.


----------



## timeturner7

White Tuna said:


> I don't know. Everything is happening so fast. Now that I am getting ready to graduate Key West and have no MKII's in the pipeline I feel a little lost. Nobody ever prepares you on how not to wait for a MKII watch. The system has failed me.
> View attachment 8459106


This is one of the reasons I opted to get in for the P300 deposit. Even if I don't want it later, I can get my money back. But since seeing the latest pic on instagram of that lume (incl. the bezel), I am glad I did.

I am somewhat tempted by the Hwakinge, but it will be odd getting fast delivery and immediate satisfaction from Mkii haha.


----------



## TheDude

White Tuna said:


> I don't know. Everything is happening so fast. Now that I am getting ready to graduate Key West and have no MKII's in the pipeline I feel a little lost. Nobody ever prepares you on how not to wait for a MKII watch. The system has failed me.
> View attachment 8459106


Haha. I've been waiting for at least one watch from MKII since 2009. Also in danger of achieving complete product delivery, probably when the 300 comes.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Post-wait depression is a serious condition.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

Not sure what I'm going to do. The 300 really doesn't ring a lot of bells for me. I had a vintage Omega Seamaster 300 that I sent back to Omega for a full restoration and then ended up selling it. 
I'm into my 7th decade, and while my health s good and I work every day, I'm getting to the point where I'm beginning to realistically look at things that are long term. I don't buy wines that need to be cellared for 10 years before they are drinkable!! Better to buy "drinkable now and for the next 10 years". Same with watches. Not sure I want to get into another watch that encompasses a 4 year wait.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

Another email from MKII this afternoon, "preparing for shipment"!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## powerband

Fantastic Arthur! Mine is a long way off, but I'm anticipating vicariously through you early owners.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## vandergl

Looking forward to more pics. 
Cheers,
JV


----------



## Arthur

I will definitely post photos as soon as I get the watch. Hopefully preparing for shipment means boxing it up and printing a shipping label. I opted for overnight shipping, so it will be here the day after it's shipped. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MDKane

That would be great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Congratulations to Arthur! It will be great to see your photos.

(Meanwhile) This photo has appeared on MKII's Instagram -- (This is the configuration that I specified for my plank-order *Key West*, with a spare 'Pepsi' bezel.)









Yummy-yummy-Yummy! 

Gettin' excited now......

|>|>


----------



## Arthur

That looks really nice. Sort of makes me wish I had ordered a "Coke"as my spare. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

I know I made the right decision, for me, in ordering the black dial. But in some light, that white dial just sings! Congrats!


----------



## goyoneuff

Or... I gladly would do that picture studio for you sir!

;-)

Congrats !!!!


Arthur said:


> I will definitely post photos as soon as I get the watch. Hopefully preparing for shipment means boxing it up and printing a shipping label. I opted for overnight shipping, so it will be here the day after it's shipped.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## TheMeasure

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> This photo has appeared on MKII's Instagram --
> View attachment 8478642


If I was able to get two, this would be the 2nd choice...Vanilla Coke KW.


----------



## Flip.willy

No other landings yet? I need some pics!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arthur

Answered your prayers. Just posted a new thread with lots of photos!! Down below in the regular section


----------



## 66Cooper

I JUST got that loooooonnnggg awaited email. Stage 3.0 Build In Process!!!


----------



## TheMeasure

66Cooper said:


> I JUST got that loooooonnnggg awaited email. Stage 3.0 Build In Process!!!


|>|>


----------



## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> I JUST got that loooooonnnggg awaited email. Stage 3.0 Build In Process!!!


Congrats! Which config did you order and how long before some pictures???


----------



## powerband

Nice, 66Cooper! Starting to pick up speed, but it's been like pushing a bowling ball with a feather.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


----------



## BigHaole

Holy [email protected]! I just got my "3.0 Build In Progress" email!!! After all this time, that came as a surprise. I thought I was going to be waiting until the end of summer. I guess I was lucky with my choice. A black dial, gilt Pepsi with a Coke chaser. I am looking forward to my very first MKII.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

BigHaole said:


> Holy [email protected]! I just got my "3.0 Build In Progress" email!!! After all this time, that came as a surprise. I thought I was going to be waiting until the end of summer. I guess I was lucky with my choice. A black dial, gilt Pepsi with a Coke chaser. I am looking forward to my very first MKII.


 At Last.... :-!


----------



## powerband

Sweet! 

I can't wait for all the real-world pictures.


Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

I'm a black gilt Pepsi as well. We just got a new 5D canon and lightbox at the office. Might be the perfect subject to test them on!


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## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> I'm a black gilt Pepsi as well. We just got a new 5D canon and lightbox at the office. Might be the perfect subject to test them on!


Black gilt Pepsi for the win!


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## 66Cooper

Anyone have any idea how long it usually takes from the time you enter 3.0 Build Status till the time it ships?


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## El Chihuahua

66Cooper said:


> Anyone have any idea how long it usually takes from the time you enter 3.0 Build Status till the time it ships?


Jun 9 The current status of your order # ##### is: 3.0 Build In Process
Jun 13 The current status of your order # ##### is: 3.0 Build In Process - The 1001 is complete. We are still working on the 1004
Jun15 The current status of your order # ##### is: 4.0 Regulation and Final Testing
Jun 17 (Friday) The current status of your order # ##### is: 5.0 Preparing for Shipment
Jun 20 (Monday) Shipped
Jun 23 ##### Out for delivery
Jun 23 Delivered

Mine was delayed because I lost my account information and email associated with it so my order information was all non-standard. What this means is I never picked what I wanted my spate bezels to be so there was some email communication in there.

I know during that time at least one other watch was being assembled so I will assume more.


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## 66Cooper

Wonderful information right there. I'd imagine as more KW owners start getting these emails, they will be referring back to this as a good baseline


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## BigHaole

I got the 3.0 Build in Progress last Friday. Received 5.0 Prepped and Shipping Confirmation tonight (Tuesday). Sounds like my journey to MKII may be completed this week!!!


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## 66Cooper

Me too!!!!

Received notification that my watch is ready to ship and was provided a tracking number this morning. WOW!!!! I just hope it makes it here on or before Saturday as I am leaving for vacation on Sunday.


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## El Chihuahua

66Cooper said:


> Me too!!!!
> 
> Received notification that my watch is ready to ship and was provided a tracking number this morning. WOW!!!! I just hope it makes it here on or before Saturday as I am leaving for vacation on Sunday.


I wish you luck with that. Vacation watch pics are the best watch pics.


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## powerband

66Cooper said:


> Me too!!!!
> 
> Received notification that my watch is ready to ship and was provided a tracking number this morning. WOW!!!! I just hope it makes it here on or before Saturday as I am leaving for vacation on Sunday.


Cancel your vacation!

Just kidding. Hope you'll have the Key West on your wrist for your vacation. That would be awesome timing.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper

New update. Said it will be here on Friday!! If it is, I'll do my best to snap many many pix at the office.


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## BigHaole

66Cooper said:


> Me too!!!!
> 
> Received notification that my watch is ready to ship and was provided a tracking number this morning. WOW!!!! I just hope it makes it here on or before Saturday as I am leaving for vacation on Sunday.


Too funny! I leave for my vacation on Saturday and mine is scheduled to arrive on Friday. Bill truly IS a miracle worker!


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## powerband

What's the chance in that: waiting for years and the watch with a GMT function arrives a day before traveling on vacation.


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## Jfha1210

Great!!! If that works, I will be travelling on vacation to the US on the 23th of July... 

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## Thieuster

Mmm, a well chosen address and communication with Bill can save you a lot of import duty when collecting and wearing the watch in the US.

Menno


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## 66Cooper

Thieuster said:


> Mmm, a well chosen address and communication with Bill can safe you a lot of import duty when collecting and wearing the watch in the US.
> 
> Menno


Thats a really great thought actually. I did something similar when buying my wife's engagement/wedding ring. Bought in NJ and shipped to PA. Saved a boatload on taxes. I would gladly offer my address as a trusted place to ship. Not far from both Bill and NYC. Would hope at this point you all would consider me trust worthy. Haha. That and will already have my Key West fix and wouldn't even be temped to open the box!! Well, maybe slight if it was a white dial....just to hold it up next to my black. Hahaha


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## Aceldama

To bad I'm not making that bi-monthly trip to Eindhoven anymore...


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## powerband

66Cooper said:


> I would gladly offer my address as a trusted place to ship. Not far from both Bill and NYC. Would hope at this point you all would consider me trust worthy. Hahaha


I have a package coming up from Columbia. Can I have it shipped to you as a drop-off point?

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## BigHaole

powerband said:


> What's the chance in that: waiting for years and the watch with a GMT function arrives a day before traveling on vacation.


077 landed today and we take off, together, tomorrow! Pictures in a new thread, below.


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## Chromejob

BigHaole said:


> 077 landed today and we take off, together, tomorrow! Pictures in a new thread, below.


Fantastic, congrats!


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## Hendu615

BigHaole said:


> 077 landed today and we take off, together, tomorrow! Pictures in a new thread, below.


How do I find the pics thread?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

Hendu615 said:


> How do I find the pics thread?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Take your pick.  Each new owner is posting his/her own "it's here!" thread. You can also see the parade of watches in the ongoing "What MkII are you wearing" thread.


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## powerband

BigHaole said:


> 077 landed today and we take off, together, tomorrow! Pictures in a new thread, below.


A well-written story! Congrats.

Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


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## Piloto

Sorry if this has been asked... I just discovered this watch.

Is there an hour jump function like the Rolex has? 

Thanks!


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## Arthur

Piloto said:


> Sorry if this has been asked... I just discovered this watch.
> 
> Is there an hour jump function like the Rolex has?
> 
> Thanks!


No, this watch uses the ETA 2893-2 movement. The GMT hand is settable, rotating the crown in the opposite direction from the date setting. While the "jump" hour hand of the Rolex is very nice, the BIG disadvantage is you lose the quickset date. Not a huge problem if you wear the watch every day or leave it on a winder when not in use, but if you wear it sporadically, you will often want to wear it and find that the date is many days from the actual date. Setting the date requires rotating the hour hand two complete times around the dial for every day. I don't like to do that because I think that it puts extra wear on the watch.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Piloto

Arthur said:


> No, this watch uses the ETA 2893-2 movement. The GMT hand is settable, rotating the crown in the opposite direction from the date setting. While the "jump" hour hand of the Rolex is very nice, the BIG disadvantage is you lose the quickset date. Not a huge problem if you wear the watch every day or leave it on a winder when not in use, but if you wear it sporadically, you will often want to wear it and find that the date is many days from the actual date. Setting the date requires rotating the hour hand two complete times around the dial for every day. I don't like to do that because I think that it puts extra wear on the watch.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


OK... Thanks! I'll still think this one over. I travel with my GMT II and always use the hour jump feature...

I may overlook the hour jump to get my hands on that white face version. Very nice!!!


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## El Chihuahua

Piloto said:


> OK... Thanks! I'll still think this one over. I travel with my GMT II and always use the hour jump feature...
> 
> I may overlook the hour jump to get my hands on that white face version. Very nice!!!


The white face version is very nice. The dial has a depth to it and you can still get the flashes of gilt that you do with the black GMT.


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## Chromejob

_double-post!_


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## Chromejob

Piloto said:


> Sorry if this has been asked... I just discovered this watch.
> 
> Is there an hour jump function like the Rolex has?
> 
> Thanks!





Piloto said:


> OK... Thanks! I'll still think this one over. I travel with my GMT II and always use the hour jump feature...
> 
> I may overlook the hour jump to get my hands on that white face version. Very nice!!!


Having "just discovered this watch," you will need to know there's a wait list to get selected for one of the pre-order phases. Plank owners (those who invested at the beginning of the project) are starting to get their watches. GO purchasers will follow later this year, or perhaps next year (depending upon pace of QC and assembly).

You can also watch the private sale forum, some plank owners may decide the watch "isn't for me" after some wrist time. That happened with the Kingston project. And once in a while a speculator will flip a watch. But you'll be paying a premium to get a watch that is in high demand and limited availability at any given time (present).

Click to the project page for more information: Project GMT

Pre-order 50% Deposit: Project GMT - Key West GMT - Limited Edition Series


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## Piloto

Chromejob said:


> Having "just discovered this watch," you will need to know there's a wait list to get selected for one of the pre-order phases. Plank owners (those who invested at the beginning of the project) are starting to get their watches. GO purchasers will follow later this year, or perhaps next year (depending upon pace of QC and assembly).
> 
> Click to the project page for more information: Project GMT
> 
> Pre-order 50% Deposit: Project GMT - Key West GMT - Limited Edition Series


Thanks!

Yes, I spent an hour on the MK II website last night and got "schooled" on the process of getting in que. I can wait for a normal production run if I can't win the lottery to get a current production slot. Now, if I can just overcome the temptation to get that Hawkinge also...

The wife has approved the purchase (required for anything over $1000), so that was the BIG issue. I can wait if need be.


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## tmoris

Build 4.0 underway. Wooohooooo


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## Jfha1210

Making a room for my Key West... 










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## Thieuster

tmoris said:


> Build 4.0 underway. Wooohooooo


^^^ this ^^^

Menno


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## Flip.willy

Any vanilla coke's landing soon?? Would love to see some quality pics of a gilt coke as well. And while I'm at it, a centralized thread for all key west pics so I don't miss anything!


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## 66Cooper

^^I like that idea.


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## Chromejob

Flip.willy said:


> ...And while I'm at it, a centralized thread for all key west pics so I don't miss anything!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Follow the "What Mk II are you wearing" thread.....

\\ Tapatalk for iOS //


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## celtics1984

Final selection made today 1003 Blue/Red gold with black dial. yeah!


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## Aceldama

In the queue with my first choice of a 1001 vanilla pepsi. In case any one is keeping track, I was in the tail end of Group 5.


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## fastfras

Aceldama said:


> In the queue with my first choice of a 1001 vanilla pepsi. In case any one is keeping track, I was in the tail end of Group 5.


Much farther along than previously expected. That's good news, and for you we turn it up a bit and call it great news.


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## whatclay

After a few IRL pictures of 1001s (white gilt, blue/red) were posted here, and reading a few comments from owners, I couldn't get 100% on board. Although the 1001 was my original preference, I finally selected 2x 1004, but just started to consider the non-gilt 1005 or 1006. Any non-gilt dials out there? Impressions, observations, etc would be much appreciated.


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## AlexH123

I just stumbled upon this thread. What's the likelyhood I'll be able to get one of these? I saw on MK II there will only be 60 of each.


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## powerband

Ah2400 said:


> I just stumbled upon this thread. What's the likelyhood I'll be able to get one of these? I saw on MK II there will only be 60 of each.


I'm unsure if the slots are completely claimed, but, if so, then you may be able to pick up a Key West that may show up on the preowned market. But, like MKII's previous special limited production of the Kingston, the price may be significantly higher than initial price from MKII.

(People readily bought the Kingston at nearly triple its initial price. There's been some opinions that the Key West, with a higher starting price, probably won't reach triple preowned value, but, judging by how it looks with the classic dual-tone 24-HR bezel, the GMT feature and a much wider audience awareness for the brand, the preowned price is predicted to still be set quite high.)

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## Chromejob

Ah2400 said:


> I just stumbled upon this thread. What's the likelyhood I'll be able to get one of these? I saw on MK II there will only be 60 of each.


Read up on the general order threads, I'm not sure if all of the slots are filled. Plank owner slots are no doubt gone.


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## BigHaole

Chromejob said:


> Read up on the general order threads, I'm not sure if all of the slots are filled. Plank owner slots are no doubt gone.


I believe that the slot lottery has stopped, which makes me believe that all pre-order slots are filled, but there will still be a general order round, at the end.


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## Flip.willy

Have a question about the movement, hoping you guys can help out. The KW uses the 2893-2 ETA. Does this movement have different grades to it, i.e. standard, elabore, top, etc., or are those classifications only on certain movements, like the 2824? Curious to learn more about this. 


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## TheDude

Flip.willy said:


> Have a question about the movement, hoping you guys can help out. The KW uses the 2893-2 ETA. Does this movement have different grades to it, i.e. standard, elabore, top, etc., or are those classifications only on certain movements, like the 2824? Curious to learn more about this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bill generally uses elabore grade but I can't recall (and I'm too lazy) to check which is in the Key West.

The 2893-2 in the LRRP was elabore.


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## Flip.willy

Thanks. It's not called out in the specs like it is for the 300, wonder if anyone can confirm. 


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## Arthur

Flip.willy said:


> Have a question about the movement, hoping you guys can help out. The KW uses the 2893-2 ETA. Does this movement have different grades to it, i.e. standard, elabore, top, etc., or are those classifications only on certain movements, like the 2824? Curious to learn more about this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The 2892-2 does come in several grades, not sure which one is in the KW.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Calibrel

The 2893.A2 _start_ at elaborated, there is no lower "standard" grade for them like with the 2824-2.

Being that the KW isn't a chronometer, that only leaves elaborated or top, and I doubt it's top.


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## Chromejob

I'm not sure if Bill identified the inspiration for the KW caseback engraving, but while perusing 1950s Pan Am memorabilia and ephemera, I've noticed that when they introduced Jet Clippers in 1958 (the Boeing 707 on October 26, 1958, the Douglas DC-8 shortly after I think), they changed the "airplane contrail" motif subtly...

April 1958 (US timetable brochure):








And the Jet Clipper version (from a 1960 UK timetable brochure):








And a closer look (from a late 1958 brochure, _Your Jet Clipper_ all about the 707):


Whoever got serial #058, your LE is a special number. 

Cover images courtesy of Airline Timetable Images.


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## Chromejob

*Happy First-flight-of-(future)-Pan-Am-Airways Day!*

*Happy open-9 Wednesday, all. *

And perhaps most significantly, happy first-commercial-flight-of-Pan-Am day! Yep, *today is the 89th anniversary of the first commercial flight of what would become Pan American Airways*, from Key West (Project GMT's namesake) to Havana. (Click the link for some history.)


















[SUB](Photo credit: The Cyril Cassidy "Cy" Caldwell Page of the Davis-Monthan Airfield Register Website )[/SUB]









[SUB](photo credit: Stamp of Approval - Pan Am Historical Foundation)[/SUB]

(Both envelopes are signed by the pilot, Cy Caldwell.)

Raise a glass, gentleman (and ladies), whether there's a Mk II Key West on your wrist or not.

(new pic forthcoming, this'll be a placeholder)


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## Chromejob

From the _"More than 30 years of growing - to serve you better in the JET AGE"_ passenger brochure found on the early Jet Clipper flights in 1958 [SUB](mine dates from someone's flight on 12/27?/1958, Idlewild to San Juan PR)[/SUB]....



















More history.... The October 19th flight was a chartered flight using another company's aircraft. On October 28 (the date reflected in this brochure), Pan Am's own Fokker F-VIIa tri-motor made the flight from Meacham Field, Key West.

A Flight Back To The Glory Days Of Pan Am - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

Pan Am's Inaugural International Flight | Clipper Crew


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## Jean-Michel Basquiat

Thank you for sharing!

Absolutely gorgeous!


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## watchguy-007

Chromejob said:


> From the _"More than 30 years of growing - to serve you better in the JET AGE"_ passenger brochure found on the early Jet Clipper flights in 1958 [SUB](mine dates from someone's flight on 12/27?/1958, Idlewild to San Juan PR)[/SUB]....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More history.... The October 19th flight was a chartered flight using another company's aircraft. On October 28 (the date reflected in this brochure), Pan Am's own Fokker F-VIIa tri-motor made the flight from Meacham Field, Key West.
> 
> A Flight Back To The Glory Days Of Pan Am - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
> 
> Pan Am's Inaugural International Flight | Clipper Crew


Looks awesome

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## Jamesaaronf

That really looks great, I wish I could have been in on that watch. Maybe the next go around.


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## BigEmpty

you guys are super professional with pictures


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