# Laser Cut Hands-Dial



## ParsonsArcher

Hi guys,

I'm currently working on a watch prototype and recently found it very difficult to find a laser cutter in the sates to cut out the hands and dial at a reasonable price. For example I quoted a dial and 4 hands (.5mm Brass) to be laser cut and got an invoice for $200 for those 5 tiny pieces only. I know I'm not crazy but thats way too high right??? Does anyone know of any sources that could assist me with a few prototypes?

Thanks so much


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## The Guvnah

Economics of scale is your answer there. It'll cost the factory exactly the same in time and skilled operative hours to set your job up for a run of 1 set as it would for a hundred sets. Ask how much to run the same job again for one more set, my guess is they'd price you at $150 next time around as they will already have your design coded up for the machine and are familiar with the job now. Then ask them... "OK, how much for 20 sets?" I'd guess they'd charge around $500 which equates to $40 a set as once the machine is set up and the stock loaded it's just a matter of repping them off until the code says stop at 20.


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## DDimitrov

Hi "ParsonsArcher",

Guvnah is absolutely right. The price of a single unit is always higher than the unit price of the series. But there is solution for your problem. 
I think by photo etching can achieve the result you want. If you want I can help with this because I have some experience with technology.
In these projects I have used the above mentioned technology:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f77/deco-my-second-project-1094408.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f77/my-first-project-tribute-molnija-1084350.html

Dimitar


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## ParsonsArcher

DDimitrov said:


> Hi "ParsonsArcher",
> 
> Guvnah is absolutely right. The price of a single unit is always higher than the unit price of the series. But there is solution for your problem.
> I think by photo etching can achieve the result you want. If you want I can help with this because I have some experience with technology.
> In these projects I have used the above mentioned technology:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f77/deco-my-second-project-1094408.html
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f77/my-first-project-tribute-molnija-1084350.html
> 
> Dimitar


Thanks so much Dimitar and Guvnah.

Dimitar your dials look amazing! do you photo etch inhouse? or do you use a company? the reason being I quoted one place that wanted to charged me $1000 for 8 sets of hands and 12 dials! My journey of sourcing is proving to be a roller coaster lmao.


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## PeterK.

ParsonsA I have quote from photoetching for dial under $200 some place in Washington state its been a while back
if I find that email i will pm ya.


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## ParsonsArcher

PeterK. said:


> ParsonsA I have quote from photoetching for dial under $200 some place in Washington state its been a while back
> if I find that email i will pm ya.


 Great Thanks!


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## Somewhere else

Why laser? Why not do it the good old fashion way and just metal bash it? For $ 200 you can get a disk cutter from Rio Grande that will make disks in any size you want out of brass (or aluminum or gold or whatever) for the rest of your life, and you can use it every day, all day. As for hands, With a file and a few tools your cna make them yourself. If you want to get more high tech about making hands, see W.O.Smith's "21st Century Watch making" and find out some very up to date methods you can use. They would work equally well on making dials too.


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## ParsonsArcher

Somewhere else said:


> Why laser? Why not do it the good old fashion way and just metal bash it? For $ 200 you can get a disk cutter from Rio Grande that will make disks in any size you want out of brass (or aluminum or gold or whatever) for the rest of your life, and you can use it every day, all day. As for hands, With a file and a few tools your cna make them yourself. If you want to get more high tech about making hands, see W.O.Smith's "21st Century Watch making" and find out some very up to date methods you can use. They would work equally well on making dials too.


I tried making the hands by hand but I found it extremely tiny and thin to file finish. Maybe my paws are too large to execute the delicate design hahaha.


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## Somewhere else

ParsonsArcher said:


> I tried making the hands by hand but I found it extremely tiny and thin to file finish. Maybe my paws are too large to execute the delicate design hahaha.


21st Century Watch Making shows you how to make things like watch hands and dial using a watch maker's lathe. Hand work really doesn't enter the picture.


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## Arie Kabaalstra

Etching is one way to get greater numbers of hands.. 
Making a dial?.. you only need a lathe for that.. .. drill the centerhole, and turn the outside..... Dialfeet?.. those could pose a challenge to get them on the right spot.. a CNC machine will also help greatly when making dials.. i used a CNC mill to make mine:










i made small depressions in the back for the dial feet ( just machined it upside-down).. date window was milled out with a 1 mm endmill

you want indices as well?.. also easy as 355/113 :-d










when making just a couple of parts.. a small CNC mill is perfectly capable of machining brass sheet.. 
if you want larger numbers.. Etching is "the way to go"..
for a project i'm working on at the moment.. we needed hands for a total of 52 watches..










Just have to cut them out.. deburr them, and paint them before applying Lume.. 
Having at least a lathe is very handy.. imagine you want a recessed subdial?..






here i am machining a dial.. recessing the seconds hand subdial.. the watch has an ETA 6498-1 movement.. that's why the seconds are off center..


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## illumiquest

Arie Kabaalstra said:


> Etching is one way to get greater numbers of hands..
> Making a dial?.. you only need a lathe for that.. .. drill the centerhole, and turn the outside..... Dialfeet?.. those could pose a challenge to get them on the right spot.. a CNC machine will also help greatly when making dials.. i used a CNC mill to make mine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i made small depressions in the back for the dial feet ( just machined it upside-down).. date window was milled out with a 1 mm endmill
> 
> you want indices as well?.. also easy as 355/113 :-d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when making just a couple of parts.. a small CNC mill is perfectly capable of machining brass sheet..
> if you want larger numbers.. Etching is "the way to go"..
> for a project i'm working on at the moment.. we needed hands for a total of 52 watches..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just have to cut them out.. deburr them, and paint them before applying Lume..
> Having at least a lathe is very handy.. imagine you want a recessed subdial?..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here i am machining a dial.. recessing the seconds hand subdial.. the watch has an ETA 6498-1 movement.. that's why the seconds are off center..


I'm wondering what laser you're using to cut out those hands? I've been working with a local shop that has a fiber laser but it's still a bit experimental, any advice on the technique would be amazing.


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## Organizer

illumiquest said:


> I'm wondering what laser you're using to cut out those hands? I've been working with a local shop that has a fiber laser but it's still a bit experimental, any advice on the technique would be amazing.


I believe Arie was saying that those are etched.

Other considerations that make photochemical etching a better fit for your task:
-Pricing is per sheet, not per part. You get as many parts as you can pack into their standard sheet
-Generally better precision
-No cost to have someone fixture the individual parts in the machine like with CNC

Only downside is that it's a 2.5D process, not 3D like CNC. So for example if you want a date window in your dial, you could do a recessed step around it, but not a chamfer. As for the dial feet- check out the partial-thickness etching for the lume plots in Arie's photo. You could do something like that on the backside of the dial, as a locator for the pins you would later glue or solder on.


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## MechaMind

For shaping hands and dial I prefer a CNC router as polishing mechanical cut surfaces is much easier than light structured ones. Of course you could go for electro polishing, but camfers 2.5d pockets and precise fittings for to take the shafts are still no option when using laser. Even etching is difficult as it causes underetchung and you would have to ride that ugly horse of chemistry in your rooms.


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## illumiquest

Thanks for the reply and the ideas. I'll look into the etching option, there's got to be some places that do smaller jobs around. I did like the idea of laser since it's a one step process and, at first look about, seems to be considerably cheaper than etching.

@MechaMind what router are you using to engrave those? 
@Somewhere else - learning to make hands by hand is certainly a noble enterprise but I know my limits in both talent and time and would rather find a way to get the job done faster. 
@ParsonsArcher - I've been using EternoMade down in Arizona. They've made parts for another watch maker before, but his designs are considerably less delicate than what I'm hoping for.


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## B.Kohr

As an FYI the Florence SC tech school has a wide variety of milling equipment. They regularly reach out to businesses looking for projects to mill and 3D print. Just costs run time and materials.


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## B.Kohr

They can 3D print gold, silver and stainless, as well as plastic To my recollection.


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## MechaMind

The router is also DIY.. so everyghing is in my hands.


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