# F11 Game WW



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Title says it, which watch?

We post a distinctive part of the watch or movement and try to guess what it is. Who finds the correct reply, posts another picture. If movement is guessed correct that's also enough. Of course it's about vintage watches ( wrist and pocket ).

An easy start:


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Harwood


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

correct and thank you Mirius, your turn.

and the whole pic:


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Well that was a nice easy start. This one might be a little harder, but not by much I think.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Mirius said:


> Well that was a nice easy start. This one might be a little harder, but not by much I think.


The first was easy....

this I do not know....


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Sparcster said:


> The first was easy....
> 
> this I do not know....


I understand, let the others have a chance huh?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Mirius said:


> I understand, let the others have a chance huh?


Indeed...

just trying to push it up!


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Well I'm away for the weekend so I'm relying on you to make sure that it's answered today.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Mirius that's brutal, leaving a stem there and disappearing for the weekend Me also have no idea, want to say some kind of waterproof thing or an aviators timepiece and related spec? Since you are into Roamer / M&S, I would guess it's from that line. I scanned your website to find this crown, but no success


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Well it is one of my watches, but I copied the photo from another site - one that has been linked to from this forum in the last few days.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

I will end the torment...

Original Mark I Taubert case per chance?


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

Sparcster said:


> I will end the torment...
> 
> Original Mark I Taubert case per chance?


One for the case collector specialist if that's the answer.

I don't have a scooby what a mark 1 Taubert even looks like, why the
removeable sleeve to the case tube? I thought it was a loose bush.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

radger said:


> I don't have a scooby what a mark 1 Taubert even looks like, why the
> removeable sleeve to the case tube? I thought it was a loose bush.


By Mark I... I just mean the first... After T&F took control of Borgel.

Picture origin and explanation... The Taubert family - watch case makers of Geneva, Switzerland


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

I will continue with an easy one....


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

Borgel?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

radger said:


> Borgel?


No


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Indeed Marc had it right, as I knew he would


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Looks a little like that vintage Roamer that was resurrected a decade or so ago as the "Roamer Competence Original" (first with Adolf Schild Cal. AS 1727, then with the FHF Cal. 138.011).

Hartmut Richter


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Nope...


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Lemania?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Emre said:


> Lemania?


Nope

Sleep is calling! Will increase the pic in the morning (if no one has got it)

Honestly thought this would be easy!


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Sparcster said:


> Will increase the pic in the morning (if no one has got it)


Surely now...


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

Chinese Official Issue?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

radger said:


> Chinese Official Issue?


lol....

Are you being a spoil sport radger....


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

Sparcster said:


> lol....
> 
> Are you being a spoil sport radger....


I don't know the watch but I just realised what the words will be so I'll
guess that it's relatively modern Omega Constellation.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

radger said:


> I don't know the watch but I just realised what the words will be so I'll
> guess that it's relatively modern Omega Constellation.


Really....

Relatively modern (early 70s) yes.... Omega, No.....


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Will be offline soon...

so....


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Sparcster said:


> Will be offline soon...
> 
> so....


Looks like a Rado Diastar 1E chronometer to me! Am I close?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Warwian said:


> Looks like a Rado Diastar 1E chronometer to me! Am I close?


You're a Winner!



Warwian... You're up!


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Easy! ;-)
Next one!


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

mike184 said:


> Easy! ;-)
> Next one!


Where were you yesterday.... It was easy!


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

It was indeed quite easy, there's nothing like the bling of a Rado Diastar!

So, it's my time to post a picture huh? I have no idea whether this is going to be too hard or too easy (probably this) but here goes:










A movement shot from my collection! Good luck!


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

When I see this KIF flector, JLC, Omega and Longines comes in my mind...

getting close?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

I would guess at a Cortebert 696 or 697....


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Sparcster said:


> I would guess at a Cortebert 696 or 697....


Spot on! It is indeed a Cortebert 697!

Time for a hard one now eh Sparcster? Give us your worst!


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Warwian said:


> Time for a hard one now eh Sparcster? Give us your worst!


I will give this some thought...... and post in the morning!


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

For me (having owned the watch and seeing the whole picture) think this is not too difficult.



Make and Model please!


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Tissot Sideral perchance?


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Tissot Sideral Automatic S b-)


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Marrick said:


> Tissot Sideral perchance?
> View attachment 1072885


Winner

Even though mike added a bit more info... Tissot sideral was all I was expecting...

Knowing how obscure your collection is... A little worried about what's coming...

(Need to be quicker mike)


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Sparcster said:


> Winner
> 
> Knowing how obscure your collection is... A little worried about what's coming...


give it to us Marrick !


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Sparcster said:


> Winner
> 
> Even though mike added a bit more info... Tissot sideral was all I was expecting...
> 
> ...


Mysterious www - when I posted my answer, Manrrick´s one hadn´t been visible for me - still after my post appeared. :think:


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Sparcster said:


> Winner
> 
> Even though mike added a bit more info... Tissot sideral was all I was expecting...
> 
> ...


Nothing too obscure:


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Zodiac Astrographic


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

mike184 said:


> Zodiac Astrographic


Congratulations!









Although, to be pedantic, mine has the earlier name - Orbiter. Your turn Mike.


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Didn´t know that the Astrographic model had an earlier release as Orbiter - learnt s.th. new again.

Here we go, maker and model name please:


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

This is a good game ...
even though the only one I've managed to recognise up till now is the Harwood.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Le' me try again: Mike, is that a Rado Starliner?


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Emre said:


> Le' me try again: Mike, is that a Rado Starliner?


Rado is right(I know, that was sooooo difficult ... ;-)).
Starliner not.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Yeah.. Rado Coupole? trying hard


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

mike184 said:


> Didn´t know that the Astrographic model had an earlier release as Orbiter - learnt s.th. new again.
> 
> Here we go, maker and model name please:
> 
> View attachment 1072980


Could it be a Rado Spherematic by any chance Mike?


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Warwian said:


> Could it be a Rado Spherematic by any chance Mike?


Coupole is too modern, Spherematic is right - so we have a winner !


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Such awesome watches! Especially the ones I've seen with a black dial.

I'll be posting a movement shot yet again. What brand is this?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Warwian said:


> What brand is this?


No idea... and its not easy to google a symbol! Looks like back to back fishes...

Im sure someone will spot it


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

I'm a little reminded of:


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Fishes and Easter, nobody?

Warwian, that was a good one huh


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Oh, I honestly believed that this one would be easy! Especially compared to the other pieces I considered. I guess some more clues are in order! Here is another picture:










Bonus points for a movement ID!


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

That has helped me none...

Swiss?

Chinese?


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Sparcster said:


> That has helped me none...
> 
> Swiss?
> 
> Chinese?


The brand is Swiss and so is the movement! Do you guys need even more clues to figure it out?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Warwian said:


> Do you guys need even more clues to figure it out?


I think I need more than just clues!


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

I have to admit that the logo is familiar but I also suspect that it is far too modern to have registered with me.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I can see half a coat of arms of Heinrich Moser. Since the watch looks more modern, I doubt that it is a Moser movement. The straight edges look a little Unitas-like to me.....

Hartmut Richter


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

I think it's a Pisces!


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Here is more or less the full picture with only a small part still censored:










It should be somewhat easier to figure out now. I guess the fish logo really isn't that associated with the brand. Probably because it came quite late in the brand's history, when they had lost much of their former esteem.
Sadly I don't have a higher resolution photo of the movement. I shamelessly stole the photo from Chrono24 because the movement of my watch is quite dirty (they are however identical).


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

The coat of arms and the "HY." show that it is a Moser (HY. = Henry, originally Heinrich), the movement is something by ETA (Cal. 1080 series):

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: ETA 1080

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> I can see half a coat of arms of Heinrich Moser. Since the watch looks more modern, I doubt that it is a Moser movement. The straight edges look a little Unitas-like to me.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter





Hartmut Richter said:


> The coat of arms and the "HY." show that it is a Moser (HY. = Henry, originally Heinrich), the movement is something by ETA (Cal. 1080 series):
> 
> bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: ETA 1080
> 
> Hartmut Richter


You were spot on even before I could post my last clue! Nicely done Hartmut! About time someone figured it out! 
The movement is an ETA 1100, which is the 12''' version of the 1080 if I'm not mistaken, so you were right there too!

Looking forward to your picture now!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Warwian said:


> Looking forward to your picture now!


Oh groan! - what with me being the person with fewest piccies too. (No use at photography and the camera is always so full of photos taken by the wife that to download one, you have to sit for half an hour and wade through all the ones in the memory.....!)

OK then, I'll filch one and post it here. As a result, the picture quality isn't all that hot but I hope you get the gist. Happy guessing.









Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Oh groan! - what with me being the person with fewest piccies too. (No use at photography and the camera is always so full of photos taken by the wife that to download one, you have to sit for half an hour and wade through all the ones in the memory.....!)
> 
> OK then, I'll filch one and post it here. As a result, the picture quality isn't all that hot but I hope you get the gist. Happy guessing.
> 
> ...


This almost feels like cheating (as I own Rössler's book) but I'd recognize that beautiful Zenith wrist alarm anywhere!  This one would have been a tough nut to crack without having read the book first for sure. It is quite the obscure movement.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

that's a real identical movement plus we all know that Hartmut is into Zenith, so, it makes life easier 

Le' me guess: Zenith 8 3/4 F ?


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Warwian is correct and Emre is, I'm afraid, wrong - the Zenith Cal. 8 3/4 F is a form movement:

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 8 3/4'''F

The picture is of the 20''' Zenith pocket watch alarm movement which never seems to have got a definite calibre designation:









...and which some say was developed for them by Le Phare at a time when Zenith had some stake in that company (unsubstantiated; I still believe on the basis of the available evidence that it is actually a Zenith in house development but am open to further evidence). The clues in the small section were, of course, the fragment of the bell spring to produce the sound in the top left corner as well as the fact that what is obviously the main gear train is rather in the middle of the movement, making space for the alarm mechanism towards the edge. The particular watch in question looks like this from the front:









...and one such specimen is famous for being the most expensive Zenith ever bought (at auction): it fetched a little over 2 million US$. The reason? It was the personal watch of Mahatma Gandhi.

Mahatma Gandhi Zenith Pocketwatch - Interwatches.com Blog

Back to you, Warwian.

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

I can honestly say that I don't know much about the movement, the history behind it or the evidence supporting that it was an in-house production by Zenith. What I can say however is that I don't personally think it looks much like the other movements by Le Phare.

Anyway, time for me to post yet another picture! This time I'll be posting a brand logo rather than a watch movement. It shouldn't be too hard for you guys!










It should be rather well-known!


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Warwian, seems like another tough call. I've no idea and information about this Basel-ish look logo, maybe someone else will chime in


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

It's got me beat.


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

radger said:


> It's got me beat.


Me too.


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

No idea here as well.


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

The company I'm looking for also used this logo for quite some time:










Don't let the thread die!


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Buren? This logo I have seen recently but I don't remember...


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

I can't believe I didn't get this. Well done sir!


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Hmmm, I'm not sure I believe you! I suspect you were leading us on!

So, lets stay with brands then - who can tell us who made these setting works?









(phew, just checked and I did identify correctly myself)


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Revue.....


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

+1

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Revue 57

Hartmut Richter


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Yay! Well done Marc, I thought we needed an easier one and FHF was a bit too obvious.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Mirius said:


> Yay! Well done Marc, I thought we needed an easier one and FHF was a bit too obvious.


Thanks!!!

So.... now a super easy one...

Caliber family please...


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

No thoughts...

The other side of the movement should hopefully help!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Oh, groan! - double mainspring barrels, Valjoux 7750-like fine adjustment, hammer for an alarm - must be a Cal. AS 5008.

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: AS 5008

(OK, so it might be a prototype AS 5007 with only a date or even a prototype 5004 with neither date nor day-of-the-week, but it is all nearly the same.....)

Hartmut Richter


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Oh, groan!


Easy right!

Winner... as requested, the caliber family.... so would have accepted AS 500X... but you were spot on! A AS 5008 (day date).

You're up (another zenith?)

Marc


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I'll have to think about a new one for ca. 24 hours..... See you same place tomorrow!

Hartmut Richter


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Right, here goes! This one ought to be quite simple - but seemingly, these simple ones have tended to catch quite a few out. Which maker, which movement?









(Picture is once again not mine, though I do actually own one.....)

Hartmut Richter


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

was nearly buying one:

The AS 1475 from mother Russia with Poljot 2612 etiquette


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Correct. Poljot alarm with Cal. 2612 from 1992 (so just about vintage).

The main thing that strikes me about this one is that it lacks any maker's name on the dial, that the "Columbus" is doubly misleading (it masks the maker by suggesting that it was made by a company called "Columbus" and it is in Western rather than Cyryllic writing) and that, without the internet as a resource or knowing it from the start, you would have trouble finding out who made it. The alarm feature and crowns suggest an AS 1475 rather than the Poljot copy.

BTW, I wonder to what extent it is known that the AS 1475 and the Poljot 2612 are not really copies of each other. The AS 1475 is an 11.5''' movement, the Poljot 2612 a 12''' movement so no parts are really interchangeable. On top of that, the Poljot movement has an extra jewel as a fitting for the alarm hammer (makes one wonder why they didn't give it another one on the other side while they were at it). The best way to distinguish between the two, however, is an extra hole in the geartrain bridge for the Poljot 2612.

Looks like you're up, Emre.

Hartmut Richter


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Didn't know this difference,thank you Hartmut for taking time and explaining.

My pic will be a pretty distinctive feature :








(pic not mine )

question is: maker and the base caliber where that pin at the spring was used first time.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

not sure if game cooled down or hints are needed: Lugrin, Breguet


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Lemania cal 2310???


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

maker correct but not the caliber in question, the L2310 aka Chr27 C12 has the same pin,right, but the question is the first user of it?


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Is it the 2220 Cal you are after?


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

nope


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Emre said:


> nope


we talking pocket watch cals?


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

wrist watch. you are puzzling me .. it's not a chrono, but would accept the chrono version also as correct reply


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Emre said:


> wrist watch. you are puzzling me .. it's not a chrono, but would accept the chrono version also as correct reply


Im grasping at straws...


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

patek phillipe chrono base cal...


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Shall I reveal the reply and post another question? I am not sure if I can give more hints. Lemania maker, the base cal of the OM 321, having two varieties:
one center seconds base cal ( that's the guy! ) and the other one chronograph with two sub-dials.Would accept both calibers as correct answer  Shouldn't be so hard...


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Emre said:


> Shall I reveal the reply and post another question?


As you pretty much had to give it away... Is this it????

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Lemania S27

Marc


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

yes

I honestly thought that it will be easy. The S27 is the base cal of the CH 27-which was widely used in different brands,and finally the one with the 12 hour totalizer the Chr 27 C12/ 2310.
thank you Marc for your reply,your turn.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Emre said:


> yes
> 
> I honestly thought that it will be easy. The S27 is the base cal of the CH 27-which was widely used in different brands,and finally the one with the 12 hour totalizer the Chr 27 C12/ 2310.
> thank you Marc for your reply,your turn.


I guess the right people did not look over the last 48 hours!! Without the 'clues' I would not have got it...

Will post something in the morning.... An 'easy' one


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Sparcster said:


> Will post something in the morning.... An 'easy' one


Movement Caliber:


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## JL Smout (Jul 27, 2010)

Sparcster said:


> Movement Caliber:


Poljot 3017. It's a Sekonda Strela chronograph.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

JL Smout said:


> Poljot 3017. It's a Sekonda Strela chronograph.


Correct JL...

You're up!!

Marc


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## JL Smout (Jul 27, 2010)

As I can't find anything good, I'll declare open house.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

JL Smout said:


> I'll declare open house.


Ok... to get the ball rolling again...

Brand please


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Cortebert?

Hartmut Richter


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Cortebert?
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Nope...


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

Tissot Seastar (?)


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

spoink said:


> Tissot Seastar (?)


Well done Spoink!

Correct...



You're up!!

Marc


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

Somebody smack my hand if I'm doing this wrong but here it goes. I will go with my weekend pickup, maker and calibre please.


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## AbslomRob (Jun 13, 2009)

Elgin Model 5? Bit of a random guess really; I'm assuming a full-plate movement from an american company, and the case screw is consistent with the Elgin's.


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

AbslomRob said:


> Elgin Model 5? Bit of a random guess really; I'm assuming a full-plate movement from an american company, and the case screw is consistent with the Elgin's.


Give that man a cigar! Too easy? Nah, AbslomRob is just that good. Maybe he can challenge you all more.













I picked up this beauty over the weekend. A little tlc and she'll be back in service.


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## AbslomRob (Jun 13, 2009)

Challenge, eh? This might do it. What movement is this from?


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## AbslomRob (Jun 13, 2009)

Maybe dial side will help:


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

AbslomRob, looks like more hints are needed


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

AbslomRob said:


> Challenge, eh? This might do it. What movement is this from?
> View attachment 1102098


I realize that this thread sadly died out a while back, but I actually stumbled upon the correct answer when browsing just now. The movement is actually made by Waltham and is called 6/0-C.
Here are two threads created by AbslomRob regarding the movement: Looking for Waltham 6/0-C information and https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/waltham-tech-331509.html.

Let's bring this this thread back to life now!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Looks like it's your turn then!

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Sorry about the delay! I turned to my watchmaker for ideas on what to post in the thread, and I believe I have a good one now!

I am looking for the maker of this movement:


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

All I can say at this stage is that it looks like it has a really weird double ringed balance. Or is that outer ring not attached to the inner one?!

Hartmut Richter


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> All I can say at this stage is that it looks like it has a really weird double ringed balance. Or is that outer ring not attached to the inner one?!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Never saw that double ring before, is that an early form of shock protection?


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Stumped but intrigued. :think:


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Emre said:


> Never saw that double ring before, is that an early form of shock protection?


I don't want to give too much away, but yes, I believe so!


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

I haven't a clue on this movement Warwian.
I've never saw this ring around a balance before, a rare beast indeed.


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Right, it sounds like it's time for another clue huh? 

The ring around the balance is a shock protection system which absorbs horizontal shocks, rather than vertical shocks absorbed by systems such as incabloc.
The maker is quite famous for their modified ETA movements, modified with technologies such as the shock protection system seen above.


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

Warwian said:


> Right, it sounds like it's time for another clue huh?
> 
> The ring around the balance is a shock protection system which absorbs horizontal shocks, rather than vertical shocks absorbed by systems such as incabloc.
> The maker is quite famous for their modified ETA movements, modified with technologies such as the shock protection system seen above.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

spoink said:


> Warwian said:
> 
> 
> > Right, it sounds like it's time for another clue huh?
> ...


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Nice guess spoink, Warwian it was a good one really  
This game became interesting, you learn something new every day. spoink your turn.


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

I don't want to seem greedy so I'll make it quick. Hmm, what have we here?


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Incastar regulator on the balance.


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

trim said:


> Incastar regulator on the balance.


You are correct! You win the speed round. I can post photos of the movement later if it is wished but that is from a Mido 917 bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements : Mido 917

Your turn, trim.


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Sorry about this, am away from home and photo abilities. In biel ATM.

to cut a long story short can someone sub for me please.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Let me do it for you, an easy one.

Movement please


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Venus 230 (or 231, if in a Hamilton and with a power reserve at 3:00):

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements : Venus 230

The difference between the 230 and 231 is not well known. Even Ranfft states this. However, I came across an article in "ArmbandUhren" by M.P. Horlbeck who presented a Hamilton with Cal. 231 which showed the difference quite clearly. The 231 was very likely a special edition made specifically for (or even by) Hamilton.

Hartmut Richter


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Huh, that was quick and correct Hartmut, thanks. Here is the timepiece:

















Casing Venus 230, pat. applied in 1954 and granted in 1957. Developed by Andre Rochat Meylan and Venus Ebauches ( Andre Rochat Meylan is the grandson of C.H Meylan from Brassus, the mysterious A.R & J.E Meylan , aka Meylan,aka Meylan Stopwatch Corporation, Andre Rochat & Jules Etienne Meylan, cousins )

Your turn


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Oh well, here's another one I had to filch from somewhere:









Who made the movement?

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Oh well, here's another one I had to filch from somewhere:
> 
> View attachment 1248292
> 
> ...


That is a Landeron/Hahn 19''' quarter repeater and column wheel chronograph.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Correct! You're up.

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Correct! You're up.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks! Great choice by the way, a beautiful movement to say the least!

My watchmaker was the local service agent for a brand of watches for many years. Below is a picture of some of the watches left in his workshop:










I am looking for the name of the maker! By the way, pretty awesome picture huh?


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

the watches scream 70s so many day/dates Seiko perchance?


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Emre said:


> the watches scream 70s so many day/dates Seiko perchance?


You are absolutely correct! They are indeed all made by Seiko!


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

OK, this might be easy or tough, depends if you were lucky to see one:









Maker and model name please


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Oh groan! - I could name it in a flash but I am running out of ideas what to repost in reply. I'll let the others have stab, first.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Hartmut are you following me?


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

No, it's just my time of day on the forum.....b-)

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Emre said:


> OK, this might be easy or tough, depends if you were lucky to see one:
> 
> View attachment 1251372
> 
> ...


I have a feeling people might start getting tired of me constantly posting in the thread, but I simply can't help myself!

That is an Angelus Tinkler!

Hopefully, this'll give Hartmut some time to figure out what to post next!


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

It's a game, and I think we all learn some bits and pieces. Well done Warwian, roll the ball

The Tinkler was produced by Angelus in circa 1957, only 100 pieces are reported as manufacture volume.It cases a quarter repeater movement. Last time this beast was seen in an auction site, it hit USD 10K.


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

I would never have got that - and I guess I'm not the only one.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Marrick said:


> I would never have got that - and I guess I'm not the only one.
> View attachment 1251755


Come on Marrick.... I thought everyone had heard of the Angelus Tinkler!


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

I have to admit that I've learned it also a month ago or so. Ran into it accidentally while I was searching for the automatic chronograph which dates to the mid-50's rather than '69, can't re-call now that chrono what or who produced. Just read it somewhere and was looking for evidence, even don't remember the maker now...Somebody here knows maybe? 
It was functional but financially un-succesful and remained only with prototypes.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Warwian said:


> I have a feeling people might start getting tired of me constantly posting in the thread, but I simply can't help myself!
> 
> That is an Angelus Tinkler!


Warwian, still waiting for your shot


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Emre said:


> Warwian, still waiting for your shot


Oh! Right! Sorry! 

I am looking for the maker of the movement seen below. Such beauty!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Oh dear, not again!

OK, I'll give this another 24 hours before chiming in.....

Hartmut Richter


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Oh dear, not again!
> 
> OK, I'll give this another 24 hours before chiming in.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I'm going to sit on my response along side of you Hartmut. I am short of interesting photos to post.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Lack of desired photos looks like a common concern. I suggest to add also questions without photos into this game, which is I think educational. 

Questions, except some, where the definition can change the correct answer, like: 

Who invented the first automatic chronograph? We all know the conflicts in this matter...

If you agree and know what Warwian posted, please go ahead with your question.


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

LeCoultre (449?)

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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

spoink said:


> LeCoultre (449?)
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The movement was indeed made by Jaeger-LeCoultre. The exact caliber number is P469A, which is identical to the 449. So you are correct about that too!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Hooray! Buys me some time.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

I just wanted to add that I have an endless supply of picture ideas!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I would have quite few myself - I just lack the pictures!!!

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> I would have quite few myself - I just lack the pictures!!!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Shamelessly steal from Google and retouch them in Microsoft Paint - that's what all the cool kids do!


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

My apologies to those who have been waiting. I have been/will be away for a bit. If I may, I would like to declare open house for whomever would like to take the task of the next challenge.


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

spoink said:


> My apologies to those who have been waiting. I have been/will be away for a bit. If I may, I would like to declare open house for whomever would like to take the task of the next challenge.


I will step in if that is all right..










Cheers


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Its a Record branded AS movement. Cal 1158, 1187, 1190, 1213 or similar.


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

trim said:


> Its a Record branded AS movement. Cal 1158, 1187, 1190, 1213 or similar.


You are likely spot on about the movement, but I actually believe it to be Rotary branded!


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

Warwian said:


> You are likely spot on about the movement, but I actually believe it to be Rotary branded!


Rotary branded AS movement but not one of the above..


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Warwian said:


> You are likely spot on about the movement, but I actually believe it to be Rotary branded!


Gah, Rotary. R this, R that.


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Who won then tony?

Warwian?


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

trim said:


> Who won then tony?
> 
> Warwian?


Not sure.. It is an AS 1795, so I guess Warwian was closer from that perspective, but you were close due to the AS connection..


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

anzac1957 said:


> Not sure.. It is an AS 1795, so I guess Warwian was closer from that perspective, but you were close due to the AS connection..


Yeah, I say Trim won this!


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

Warwian said:


> Yeah, I say Trim won this!


Trim is the winner then and the poster of the next challenging pic..


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

My Apologies for the delay.

While not strictly in the rules, I'm going to post a watchmakers tool - and I think it is pretty tricky. The watchmaker who gave it to me, said it was the most useful tool in all his 50 years of watchmaking. Good luck!


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

Shot in the dark, but is that what they use to regulate an Accutron tuning fork movement??


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Pretty good guess, but no. I had actually considered posting one of those too :-!


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

trim said:


> Pretty good guess, but no. I had actually considered posting one of those too :-!


OK.. so my nursing background sees the shape of a syringe.. something to do with oiling???


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

It also reminds me of my solder remover..


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

It does have a plunger, but isn't for oil, liquids or solder. The plunger is mechanical, for ejection, rather than injection.


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

trim said:


> It does have a plunger, but isn't for oil, liquids or solder. The plunger is mechanical, for ejection, rather than injection.


A bit like a vacuum cleaner for removing 'stuff' from a watch movement/dial..


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

Is it a jewelling tool???


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

anzac1957 said:


> Is it a jewelling tool???


No, although it looks a little similar I agree.

The tip, which is blurry - is very sharp.


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## Dave S (Sep 17, 2012)

Propelling pencil

Dave


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## Tanguero (Dec 16, 2010)

Hole punch for straps.


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

It's a pencil to write customer bills.


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Tanguero said:


> Hole punch for straps.


Good guess and getting closer, it is a punch of some kind but not for straps.

Next clue, this is the length of the pin when the plunger is fully depressed. The length of this pin is significant.

Also, this is a generic tool, it can be used with almost any watch by any manufacturer. It is not some specialist tool for one calibre or manufacturer.


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## crazyfist (Jan 2, 2011)

trim said:


> Good guess and getting closer, it is a punch of some kind but not for straps.
> 
> Next clue, this is the length of the pin when the plunger is fully depressed. The length of this pin is significant.
> 
> Also, this is a generic tool, it can be used with almost any watch by any manufacturer. It is not some specialist tool for one calibre or manufacturer.


Eject jewels.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


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## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

Trim,
I've racked my brains over this tool but can't suss out its use.
Is it for pushing out spring bars where the lugs are holed through?


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

watchmakers' toy ?? :-d


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Emre said:


> watchmakers' toy ?? :-d





radger said:


> Trim,
> I've racked my brains over this tool but can't suss out its use.
> Is it for pushing out spring bars where the lugs are holed through?


No on both counts. The punch aspect is important. The punch is the end of the tool, not the end of the ejection pin.

Radger, I think you will be amused when all is revealed.


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

I'll throw a wild guess. This is a barrel punch-opener. Punches barrel arbor to pop open the barrel lid.


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

kanikune said:


> I'll throw a wild guess. This is a barrel punch-opener. Punches barrel arbor to pop open the barrel lid.


No. Sorry, it is quite small.

Is it time for another clue? I am still hoping some of the watchmakers from f6 will pop over.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

trim said:


> My Apologies for the delay.
> 
> While not strictly in the rules, I'm going to post a watchmakers tool - and I think it is pretty tricky. The watchmaker who gave it to me, said it was the most useful tool in all his 50 years of watchmaking. Good luck!


Crystal remover. Pumps air into the tube and the crystal pops out.


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## Sparcster (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi Trim...

I thought summarizing your points may help...



trim said:


> 1. The watchmaker who gave it to me, said it was the most useful tool in all his 50 years of watchmaking
> 
> 2. It does have a plunger, but isn't for oil, liquids or solder. The plunger is mechanical, for ejection, rather than injection
> 
> ...


Not really much help to me....

A tool to punch a hole in something then eject it out.....

My post is going to turn into 20 questions......

When you say this could be used on any watch - does that include quartz? Pocket watches?

Is the tool ejecting something you want to keep/use/reuse?

Are there other 'recognizable' tools which do the same job as this? Or, is this a tool which does something normally done by hand?

The length of the pin is important... so it either ejects something that length, or has to reach that far to eject 'it'

As you can see.... I dont have a clue!

Marc


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Crystal remover. Puff of air in the tube and the crystal pops off.


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## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

In the black art of watch repair the practitioner must give a single drop of blood as sacrament to the timekeeping deities. This device is used, in ceremony, to extract that single drop of the watchmakers essence and deposit it underneath the dial (?).

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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Sparky - good summary, you're getting close. Yes even quartz, and I guess most pocket watches, but not all.

OK new clue, this should be it...


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Crown installation, wild guess. You cut the stem too short. Fill the crown with a small plug of lead. Now crown doesn't thread on as far making the stem essentially long enough. I have done this with a piece of solder. Not often but in a pinch


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

We have a winner :-!

You punch a small round of lead, and the pin pushes it into the threaded hole in the crown. 

So dacattoo - your turn ;-)


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Okay, back to movements. This simple looking movement is used in a "specialized watch". First pic is sparse, subsequent pics will show more and more as they are necessary.










Ho Humm:-d


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## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

Elgin "Jitterbug" timer.

If that's not it exactly, I'm pretty sure it's an Elgin of some sort based on the click.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Not exactly sure what a jitterbug is but you probably got it. Care to elaborate on this watch a little more?


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## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

Jitterbug is a name sometimes used for the WWII-era times that run at a very high beat rate(not sure what, but I've heard as high as 40bps). Typically these will have a black dial with a center sweep hand that rotates once every 10 seconds.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

dacattoo said:


> Not exactly sure what a jitterbug is but you probably got it. Care to elaborate on this watch a little more?























One button stopwatch, Elgin. Well done. Your turn.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

I know of what you speak. I have seen them in 8 second dials and also in 10 i believe. Some have referred to those as artillery timersThis is not a high beat movement here however. I have some pics at work of the watch you speak of and will put them up tomorrow. The balances are very odd. 
The rest of the watch looks like this one though with the exception of the black dial and often the black ratchet or winding wheel.


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## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

Looks like I was off a little bit-it's the regular 60 second timer and not the high beat one.

In any case, here's my attempt. Astute observers can likely identify the make and model from this one, and at least make a reasonable attempt at the grade.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Here are some pictures of the jitterbug Mr. Hutchinson referred to. Note the winding and ratchet wheel and click are the same size and shape the timer in my example, however they are treated somehow to a black color. Perhaps someone could elaborate on that process. The second picture shows the odd balance. Yes, there is a balance wheel in there and it is a speed king, something like 40bps. This example has a 10 second dial, I have also seen them with 8 second dials. WWII vintage, they were used for artillery work I understand. Picture 4 shows the chronograph parts some of which are also the black color. I have about 7 or 8 of these and have noticed none of the black parts have any corrosion.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Willow the "watch" dog. Also the source of the dog hair in the previous post pictures.:roll:


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Ben_hutcherson said:


> Looks like I was off a little bit-it's the regular 60 second timer and not the high beat one.
> 
> In any case, here's my attempt. Astute observers can likely identify the make and model from this one, and at least make a reasonable attempt at the grade.
> 
> View attachment 1281592


Could it be a Illinois Watch Company grade 179? 
Does that beautiful font happen to have a name by the way?


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## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

Warwian said:


> Could it be a Illinois Watch Company grade 179?
> Does that beautiful font happen to have a name by the way?


Exactly right!

I'm not sure what the name of the font is...I have a friend who is a printer and big time Illinois collector who would probably know. I'll try to ask him the next time I see him.


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## paulmlemay (Oct 13, 2013)

This is a good post

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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Ben_hutcherson said:


> Exactly right!
> 
> I'm not sure what the name of the font is...I have a friend who is a printer and big time Illinois collector who would probably know. I'll try to ask him the next time I see him.


What are the odds? Printer and a big time Illinois collector? Awesome! 

Time for me to go again huh? How about another pocket watch? One of my favorites with a fairly unique layout!








Looking for the maker!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Cyma "Pleiade" movement:

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Cyma 17'''10 Pleiade

...so called because of the grouping ot the gears (more than just the standard four) resembles the star sign of the Pleiades (in Greek mythology, the children of Pleione and Atlas, due to the latter also called the Atlantiads).

Hartmut Richter


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Somebody created in the ebauche a stars alignment huh, that's fantastic and very creative idea. You learn something every day.


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Cyma "Pleiade" movement:
> 
> bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Cyma 17'''10 Pleiade
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct Hartmut! Have you been able to source any more pictures? It is your turn now!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

OK, here goes - let's see how long this will take you lot. The picture shows a somewhat disassembled mess of - what movement?!









A little piece of help: don't bother going through Ranfft's pink pages.....

Hartmut Richter


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Pretty wack movement Hartmut. I have no idea.

I will now state the obvious.

pillar construction, back wind, setting works on plate - rocker bar mechanism, palette - either pin or stein. Probably a ladies calibre.


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> OK, here goes - let's see how long this will take you lot. The picture shows a somewhat disassembled mess of - what movement?!
> 
> View attachment 1285309
> 
> ...


I'd recognize that shape anywhere! That is a Zenith cal. 707 (nicknamed "the potato" because of its potato-like shape). It was strictly used for observatory competitions and only 250 or so pieces were made. 
I also remember reading somewhere that the designation 707 came from the fact that the total area of the movement was 707 mm², which was the largest area allowed for form movements in the competitions.
Hartmut can probably fill in with even more details!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Correct on all counts. The Cal. 707 was a little bit of a cheat since it "bent its shape" in order to accommodate all the parts in a way to have the least wasted area. Observatory competitions had several categories, the smallest being wrist watch movements. These were set at an arbitrary maximum of 30mm diameters or 13''' (pocket watches at 50mm or 22''', deck watches at 70mm) which is why you find practically no old wrist watch movement larger than 13''' (except chronographs, which benefit from the extra space for all those parts and were practically never tested in competitions anyway). And that's why PW movement peter out at 22''' (the older standard size is 19''').

Since the 30mm rule cannot be applied to form movements, these were limited to the equivalent area: 707mm². The Cal. 707 actually only has ca. 685mm². Nevertheless, in "honour" of this limit, it is designated as Cal. 707!

For those interested, this is the entire movement:









Looks like you're up (again), Warwian!

Hartmut Richter


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Really! It is pretty poorly finished and frankly 'pillar plate' construction for a movement of this calibre? Not that I can do better ;-) 

Just goes to show I guess.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

It was never made to be bautiful. It was made to thrash the competition in competition! Which it was fairly good at, as shown by Zenith's record number of prizes (and first prizes) at observatory competitions. You can make very accurate movements on a plate and pillar basis - all the marine chronometers had this construction. 

Hartmut Richter


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Thrash it may have done, but none-the-less it is a pity they couldn't manage a little effort on the aesthetic side of things. Your original posted images could have almost been from a 1930s pin lever - but not the barrel, that was throwing me.

Anyway, well done warwian.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

I am not sure I can use potato and watch in the same sentence even, closest would be ' zeit fur pommes '
Would never have known this interesting movement. Hartmut that was a good one huh. Warwian, from which planet are you from? well done


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Correct on all counts. The Cal. 707 was a little bit of a cheat since it "bent its shape" in order to accommodate all the parts in a way to have the least wasted area. Observatory competitions had several categories, the smallest being wrist watch movements. These were set at an arbitrary maximum of 30mm diameters or 13''' (pocket watches at 50mm or 22''', deck watches at 70mm) which is why you find practically no old wrist watch movement larger than 13''' (except chronographs, which benefit from the extra space for all those parts and were practically never tested in competitions anyway). And that's why PW movement peter out at 22''' (the older standard size is 19''').
> 
> Since the 30mm rule cannot be applied to form movements, these were limited to the equivalent area: 707mm². The Cal. 707 actually only has ca. 685mm². Nevertheless, in "honour" of this limit, it is designated as Cal. 707!
> 
> ...


It is always an honor to learn from the more knowledgeable! A great pick by the way, especially seeing as some had not seen the movement before. 
This thread is pretty amazing, combining appreciation for the odd and obscure movements and brands of the watch world with a great deal of information.



Emre said:


> I am not sure I can use potato and watch in the same sentence even, closest would be ' zeit fur pommes '
> Would never have known this interesting movement. Hartmut that was a good one huh. Warwian, from which planet are you from? well done


Haha! Hartmut did mention that there was a wrist watch created around the cal. 707. Which means that you could check whether it was "time for potatoes" on your "potato"!
It sure was! I guess have a knack for remembering watch related stuff, I am also quite proficient in using Google, which does help greatly at times.

My next picture is of a movement from my collection, which has grown quite large even though I am not finished with my first year of collecting yet! 
Sadly, the picture was shamelessly stolen from the web (again) as my I was far too lazy to take a picture myself.
It is of cute little movement that I believe to be quite obscure (to keep on the tradition of obscure movements). If it is too hard I will assist with more clues!










Edit: I am looking for the maker (alternatively the caliber number too).


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

I'd have to guess the maker is Buren and the caliber is 458 or not far off.

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements : Buren 460
Funny thing, the link claims 460 has sub second, though if I interpret the layout correctly it has center seconds.

And lastly one small thing. I cheated a little bit, google gave me the correct answer. 
This was the magic line in Google: "watch movement wxc 17 jewels".

I like this game. Even watchnoobers can win


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

kanikune said:


> I'd have to guess the maker is Buren and the caliber is 458 or not far off.
> 
> bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements : Buren 460
> Funny thing, the link claims 460 has sub second, though if I interpret the layout correctly it has center seconds.
> ...


Awesome detective work! A man after my own heart! The movement was indeed made by Büren! 

You are absolutely correct about the movement on the picture having central seconds, so I'm guessing Dr. Ranfft only had a picture of the 461 movement, and that it had to suffice for the 460 page as well.

The exact caliber number of the movement I posted is 481, which I'm guessing is a later movement than the 460/461. The movements aren't extremely similar but as I was mainly after the maker you are awarded the win! 

Your turn! Cheers from Sweden by the way!


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

Cheers! 
In this large playground it almost feels like we are neighbours 

Okay, time to release next one:
Maker and caliber?


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Open click wheels? Looks like the sort of thing the dreaded "R" would come up with.....

Hartmut Richter


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Open click wheels? Looks like the sort of thing the dreaded "R" would come up with.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Getting warm..


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

Next piece.


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)




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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I'd have a guess at "some sort of Rolex automatic but not the Cal. 620 (first modern rotor automatic) since that had an automatic bridge that was circular and covered the entire base movement"......

Hartmut Richter


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## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

Close enough. This is 1030.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Thanks for the info. Oh well, 24 hours to think about the next one..... - unless someone else wants to step in with a brilliant idea?!

Hartmut Richter


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Nobody chipping in with some bright ideas? Oh well, never mind - here goes again. What movement is this from:









Tiny clue: not a Zenith! b-)

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Nobody chipping in with some bright ideas? Oh well, never mind - here goes again. What movement is this from:
> 
> View attachment 1294407
> 
> ...


That movement was made by one of my favorite forgotten Brands! Namely Phenix! It is a caliber 200 "Rollamatic". Phenix sure had some crazy ideas, this and the Chronostop comes to mind!
I actually own three Nivada Compensamatics made for the Swedish market with odd Phenix calibers (the 13‴ caliber 160 of which there seems to be very few records of).
I might post a thread about them some day, I just need to get them back from my watchmaker first. Heh!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Shucks! - too easy by the looks of it. I didn't see your name in this recent thread, though, Warwian.....

https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/phenix-rollamatic-without-rollamatic-bit-901260.html

Looks like your turn again.

Hartmut Richter


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## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Shucks! - too easy by the looks of it. I didn't see your name in this recent thread, though, Warwian.....
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/phenix-rollamatic-without-rollamatic-bit-901260.html
> 
> ...


Almost! Hmm, I must have missed that thread. I am not sure I could have contributed much to it anyway. 
It is becoming increasingly hard coming up with stuff to post, but I am not totally out of ideas yet! I am looking for the maker and caliber number of this beauty:








The movement has an enormous balance wheel considering its size!


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Well, the first thing that strikes me is that it must have been modded with respect to the fine adjustment. It looks as if the broad depression on the balance cock has been applied _post hoc_, thereby eliminating some markings. Also, the shock proofing is anything but standard.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Well, the first thing that strikes me is that it must have been modded with respect to the fine adjustment. It looks as if the broad depression on the balance cock has been applied _post hoc_, thereby eliminating some markings. Also, the shock proofing is anything but standard.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


The reason why this example may look a bit shoddy is likely because of heavy use. I can assure you that the movement left the factory (a very respectable one at that) with that very depression! All other calibers with the same designation have an identical depression! What isn't apparent in this picture is the bright yellow paint used in the indexes for the fine adjustment.


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Large balance wheel looks like something made for chronometre competitions - but no!, no depressed escapement wheel. Shockproofing gives us a clue, though: Eterna. So, hunt around a bit and come up with something like this:

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Eterna 1407G

...or possibly this:

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Eterna 1476K

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Large balance wheel looks like something made for chronometre competitions - but no!, no depressed escapement wheel. Shockproofing gives us a clue, though: Eterna. So, hunt around a bit and come up with something like this:
> 
> bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Eterna 1407G
> 
> ...


You are spot on about it having been made by Eterna. It is however a different movement than the ones you have posted, but you were close enough! The correct caliber designation is 1408U. 
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you are able to source some pictures for you next candidate!


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Ah well, another 24 hour think coming up here.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Ah well, another 24 hour think coming up here.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I wish you the best of luck!  What do you mean by "depressed escapement wheel" by the way? Do you mean the entire cock? Like on the Zenith 135?


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Exactly!

I already have the next candidate lined up - I just can't find a piccie on the internet yet.....:-(

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Right, here goes again. I really had to dig hard for this one so it had better be a good one (i.e. not too easy - although by now, seemingly not much surprises you lot!). Who was responsible for this one, then?









Hartmut Richter


----------



## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Right, here goes again. I really had to dig hard for this one so it had better be a good one (i.e. not too easy - although by now, seemingly not much surprises you lot!). Who was responsible for this one, then?
> 
> View attachment 1303091
> 
> ...


It's a long shot guess but to me the bridges seem to make up initials. My first impression was "GPJ" which would then make me believe that perhaps Georges Favre-Jacot.(?)


----------



## radger (Nov 18, 2007)

spoink said:


> It's a long shot guess but to me the bridges seem to make up initials. My first impression was "GPJ" which would then make me believe that perhaps Georges Favre-Jacot.(?)


Spoink,

Well done, one of the few that I've recognised and you beat me to it.


----------



## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

I should have caught my typo. Meant to say the initials looked like "GFJ" not "GPJ". That may help make more sense of my process.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Either way, you are quite right. It is one of the earlier G F-J movement for that particular line of watches (the others being Billodes, Defi and Diogene). You're up, Spoink!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

Already have one in mind. Should have photos up tomorrow.


----------



## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

This may not be new to the crew here in Vintage Forum but this was an interesting surprise when I opened a recent acquisition. Hopefully this is not just common knowledge to the majority here, it's a first for me.









It's probably not by who you may first think...

Manufacture please


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

spoink said:


> This may not be new to the crew here in Vintage Forum but this was an interesting surprise when I opened a recent acquisition. Hopefully this is not just common knowledge to the majority here, it's a first for me.
> 
> View attachment 1305071
> 
> ...


Elgin Durabalance perhaps? It doesn't quite look like the Wyler Incaflex!


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Hmmmm. Looks rathe like the Elgin - but there should be two additional mobile weights on a straight bar whose position should be controlled by those curved arms. Rather like this (bottom piccie):

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Elgin 760

Hartmut Richter

P-S-: if this wins, I vote Warwian as winner and as next up with a query!


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Hmmmm. Looks rathe like the Elgin - but there should be two additional mobile weights on a straight bar whose position should be controlled by those curved arms. Rather like this (bottom piccie):
> 
> bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Elgin 760
> 
> ...


Yeah, I noticed the missing bar too! I just figured it had been removed for the sake of the picture, on other pictures I found it does look removable. If we are correct I have another funky balance wheel to post!


----------



## spoink (Nov 9, 2010)

Warwian said:


> Elgin Durabalance perhaps? It doesn't quite look like the Wyler Incaflex!


Wyler would be implied, of course, and you are correct. Elgin 900 (ladies) bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements : Elgin 905 without incabloc. 
Sorry I have no further photos. The watch was in sorry shape from over oiling and is currently in the bath.



Hartmut Richter said:


> Hmmmm. Looks rathe like the Elgin - but there should be two additional mobile weights on a straight bar whose position should be controlled by those curved arms. Rather like this (bottom piccie):
> 
> bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Elgin 760
> 
> ...





Warwian said:


> Yeah, I noticed the missing bar too! I just figured it had been removed for the sake of the picture, on other pictures I found it does look removable. If we are correct I have another funky balance wheel to post!


Duly noted as well. No weights leads me to wonder if it was altered during a former service, or, if this was just another iteration of the horizontal shock system. Either way, I would be sure Wyler had something to say about this.

You are at the point Warwian. That one was way too easy for you guys.


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

spoink said:


> Wyler would be implied, of course, and you are correct. Elgin 900 (ladies) bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements : Elgin 905 without incabloc.
> Sorry I have no further photos. The watch was in sorry shape from over oiling and is currently in the bath.
> 
> Duly noted as well. No weights leads me to wonder if it was altered during a former service, or, if this was just another iteration of the horizontal shock system. Either way, I would be sure Wyler had something to say about this.
> ...


If I remember correctly, the Durabalance is not only a shock protection system, which sets it a part from the Incaflex system. It is also a design for a free-sprung balance where the bar is used for regulation, which reminds me of the Gyromax system by Patek Philippe.

Anyway, here comes my candidate. This one might also be fairly easy, so I am not only looking for the manufacturer but also the name of the contraption!


----------



## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Looks like a Rolex super balance to me.

Edit: Sorry, Super-Balance ;-)


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

You are absolutely correct (after editing)!  Was it too easy? Did you spend hours and hours on Google desperately looking for clues before finally figuring it out?


----------



## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

No, too easy, I'm afraid ;-) - I knew it straight away. Proof, see:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/vintage-rolex-629072.html#post4589667


----------



## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

Who killed this thread? -How about a Christmas special?


----------



## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Oops, completely slipped my mind. I'll post it in the morning.


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

trim said:


> Oops, completely slipped my mind. I'll post it in the morning.


Come on Trim! Don't let it slip your mind yet again!


----------



## kanikune (Nov 21, 2012)

trim said:


> Oops, completely slipped my mind. I'll post it in the morning.









, trim!


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Who killed this informative and fun thread 

Let's continue, it was nice to check daily. Zombie-ing with an easy example.

Movement maker please:


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I think I'll give this one a while to allow the others a shout.

(Yes, I do know what this is. As a clue, the details of the indirect central seconds should give this one away.....)

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Chezard perhaps bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Chezard 7400


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Congrats Marrick, yes Chezard 7400.The jumping seconds aka dead beat aka seconde morte.
Your turn


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

And now:


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi,

Jump hour?

Regards,


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

James A said:


> Hi,
> 
> Jump hour?
> 
> Regards,


No






- but thanks for trying!


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

We continue from the seconds hand eh, that's the rattrapante, no?


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Sorry no. Its just an automatic.








Hint: Porrentruy


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Haven't we had this before in this thread?

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Haven't we had this before in this thread?
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Yes - last November - but not by me.


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi,

Phenix Rollermatic !

Regards,


----------



## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

James A said:


> Hi,
> 
> Phenix Rollermatic !
> 
> Regards,


CORRECT. Phenix 200 as used in the Rollamatic.








I'd forgotten it had been featured before when I posted it. Sorry Hartmut.
Not given in the Pink Pages but featured here Phenix Automatik Cal. 200 "Rollamatic" - UhrForum










Over to you James A.


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi Marrick,

Think you made it easy in the end to guess.

What fun. Here's mine , just need brand and model.



Regards,


----------



## Tomcat1960 (Feb 23, 2012)

Regarding that Roll-A-Matic: it's indeed fascinating to which lengths some watchmakers went in order to avoid infringing the Rolex patent. Unfortunately, my questions in that thread remained unanswered - I still believe that the winding power must have been insufficient, given all those levers and cranks that had to be moved ;-)

Regards
Tomcat


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Think I need to give another clue.



Regards,


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Still too hard? Ok, another clue. This watch is from an American company that was eventually bought by Bulova.

Regards,


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

When I saw the first piccie, I though that it might have been Rolex with their first screw down crown watch.....

Anyway, I think I can see the last bits of the words "Chronometer" and "Shockproof" peeking out there.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

James A said:


> Think I need to give another clue.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,


That is an old Wittnauer Allproof, likely equipped with a Revue movement with 7 jewels.


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hooray!! Well done Warwian you even named the movement so you deserve a bonus point 



So over to you.

Regards,


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks! A great little piece!

Here is the movement of a weird early diver I have in my collection. The movement in question even has a Breguet spring. Can anyone figure out the maker?


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi,

Could you be showing us another Revue ?

Regards,


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

James A said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could you be showing us another Revue ?
> 
> Regards,


Good guess, but the movement isn't made by Revue.


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Any other educated guesses?


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Sorry, but I can't see any movement. Not even a failed link, empty picture frame or similar - just some text.....

Quick edit: it's come up for me to see now. Not that I can recognise it for certain.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

I thought this would be easier to identify , looking at those strange lugs, but no . My guess and it's only based on their dive watch history is Omega.


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Warwian said:


> Thanks! A great little piece!
> 
> Here is the movement of a weird early diver I have in my collection. The movement in question even has a Breguet spring. Can anyone figure out the maker?


Hi Warwain,

Any clues for us?

Regards,


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

James A said:


> Hi Warwain,
> 
> Any clues for us?
> 
> Regards,


Oh, I'm sorry! I am so focused on my Bachelor's thesis these days that I had forgotten to check the thread.
The movement in question was not made by Omega. It is, however, an in-house movement made by a quite famous company.
The company in question is especially famous for a specific type of watch with a specific type of movement historically worn by a specific type of person.
Confusing enough for you?


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Warwian said:


> Oh, I'm sorry! I am so focused on my Bachelor's thesis these days that I had forgotten to check the thread.
> The movement in question was not made by Omega. It is, however, an in-house movement made by a quite famous company.
> The company in question is especially famous for a specific type of watch with a specific type of movement historically worn by a specific type of person.
> Confusing enough for you?


Did I just kill the thread again? Should I reveal the maker?


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

"The company in question is especially famous for a specific type of watch with a specific type of movement historically worn by a specific type of person."

Well, the only one I can think of that satisfies all three is probably Omega (Speedmaster Professional with Lemania Cal. 321, most famously worn by astronauts).

Looking at the movement, I would guess Gallet (they have some movements with that bridge structure) but I can't for the life of me think of any of their movements as being particularly famous in particularly famous watches worn by particularly famous people.....

Hold on - the other famous triple is probably the Vulcain Cricket, as worn by US presidents. If it isn't that, I am at the end of my wits and knowledge.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> "The company in question is especially famous for a specific type of watch with a specific type of movement historically worn by a specific type of person."
> 
> Well, the only one I can think of that satisfies all three is probably Omega (Speedmaster Professional with Lemania Cal. 321, most famously worn by astronauts).
> 
> ...


Ding! Ding! We have a winner! 
The movement in question is a Vulcain 65 ME. Other versions of this caliber include the 65 MS, which is equipped with central seconds, and the 65 Y, which is a chronograph. The latter is mentioned here: Page Modèles

The watch in question is an early Vulcain Nautical, of which I can't find anything on the web or in books. The watch also makes me question the wording used in the Vulcain book "Vulcain a passion for fine craftsmanship". For example, on page 104 it says: "In 1959, Vulcain's directors got wind of Hannes Keller's repeated exploits. On his advice, they decided to perfect a watch that would accurately indicate the decompression stops. The famous Nautical was born.". If I am correct my watch would have been made at least 10 years prior to that. Perhaps it is unique or a prototype? I sent an email to Vulcain's independant expert Mr. Antoine Simonin, but he has yet to answer. Has anyone seen anything similar?









The watch has a cool two-piece case, as can be seen below:









If Mr. Simonin is unable to answer I will have to ask the forum for help.


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Right, time to rack my brains as to the next quiz query.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Tomcat1960 (Feb 23, 2012)

@ Hartmut Richter: Gallet? Of course: Harry S. Truman is said to have worn a 'Flight Officer' during his term of office as 33rd President of the United States (after having pushed as a senator to have US Pilots equipped with it). Maybe this is the connection you lost?

Regards
Tomcat


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Well, no, not really - that was only one person known to wear that watch, not a whole group doing the same job, if you know what I mean.

In the meantime, here's the next puzzle. Who is the maker?









Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Well, no, not really - that was only one person known to wear that watch, not a whole group doing the same job, if you know what I mean.
> 
> In the meantime, here's the next puzzle. Who is the maker?
> 
> ...


As it has been 14 hours and no one has answered yet I am going to answer myself. The watch in question is a "Sector Watch" made by Record Watch Co., one of my favorite watch manufacturers.


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Correct! Effectively a round PW movement squeezed into a strange shape, I suppose..... Plus equipped with retrograde hour and minute indication by dial side mechanism. Here's the front:









You're up again, Warwian!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

So, what do we have here?


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

An unusual type of escapement, of course!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi,

Brocot escape wheel? But for watches...no? 

Make that Duplex?

Regards,


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi Warwain ,

Trust your studying is coming along well. But you left us hanging!



Anymore clues?

Regards,


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

James A said:


> Hi Warwain ,
> 
> Trust your studying is coming along well. But you left us hanging!
> 
> ...


Oh, I am sorry! I didn't see that you edited your post, I was looking for new posts. You are correct, the escapement in question is called duplex! Nicely done! Here is the watch in question: Patek Czapek duplex quarter repeater movement review


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi,

Does anyone know the Cal and maker?



Regards,


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I feel that it wouldn't be fair if I replied to this one.....;-)

Hartmut Richter


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi,

Just about to go on Holiday for 2 weeks. So wont be able to confirm if you have the answer till I'm back. Will post another clue then if no one has an answer.

Regards,


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I'll give the rest here about 24 more hours then before I put them out of their misery. 

Hartmut Richter


----------



## SilkeN (Apr 19, 2014)

Puh...wrist watch but one,two,three,four and five ...even numbers are out ? It looks beautiful .Zenith calibre 135


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Managed to get on line briefly and congrats Silken you have correctly called it. Well done and over to you.

Regards


----------



## SilkeN (Apr 19, 2014)

Nice holyday's James and I hope I've found a matching puzzle. This is difficult for a collector of 3 hand pocket watches of joe sixpack. This should be also solvable by pure wrist watch collectors:









This is a manufacture movement out of the 20 ties/30 ties by a experimental joyful watchmaker. One part of this movement if you look carefully you'll find in serveral wrist watches from this watchmaker even within ebouches or by other manufactures. Somehing simular was shown in this thread anywhere. His name is revived as a aktuall swiss brand. Please tell me his name.

I hope you enjoy the movement and it's not to simple to solve
marry advise Silke


----------



## SilkeN (Apr 19, 2014)

Hey what's going on here. Does no one likes to play with me or does no one detects the "iron man" of the watchmakers? Unbreakable he climbs up in pumping action on the top of the Eiffel Tower just to throw down some of his watches.

Here the grafic out of his Patent:









I guess now :-!


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I was offline for two days, hence my lack of responsiveness. I actually do know the answer, once again, I'll give some of the others a chance to write in (also because I'd be stuck when trying to find the next one).....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

SilkeN said:


> Hey what's going on here. Does no one likes to play with me or does no one detects the "iron man" of the watchmakers? Unbreakable he climbs up in pumping action on the top of the Eiffel Tower just to throw down some of his watches.
> 
> Here the grafic out of his Patent:
> 
> ...


The balance wheel and the regulator gives it away. It is a Wyler pocket watch!


----------



## SilkeN (Apr 19, 2014)

Yes of course you are right. It seems that the typical balance is hard to detect for many people in a natural movement . Warwian now you get the baton. I look forward to read your mystery:-!

Kind regards Silke


----------



## Warwian (Jul 4, 2012)

I currently own two very fine watches with the movement seen below, the picture was not taken by me however. What caliber is this and who made it?


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

I hope you don't mind me resurrecting this forum game, it was really fun and educational. 
Let me re-roll the ball.
Rules are simple: You post a distinctive part of a watch and we try to guess which watch or movement it is. Whoever gets it right posts further, so it goes on...If you post something make sure you are around so we don't kill the thread and keep people waiting to find out the answer. 
Here it comes, an easy start. 
What movement is this?


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Hey Emre,

Dead beat seconds. Chezard 7400?

Regards,


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Spot on James, you're up!


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Looking at the crown and pushers can you determine the movement?









Regards,


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

three pushers and one crown. Any hints James?


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Emre said:


> three pushers and one crown. Any hints James?


Yes. According to Ranfft the movement dates to 1937. The movement makers name starts with the letter L.

Regards,


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Landeron 47?


----------



## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Well done Dan  

Regards,


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

James A said:


> Well done Dan
> 
> Regards,


It would have been more impressive if I had been paying closer attention to this thread, since I actually knew that one without the hint, from previous posts on this very forum.

Ok, name the watch that belongs to this seconds hand.


----------



## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Eternamatic KonTiki?

Matt 


Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

busmatt said:


> Eternamatic KonTiki?
> 
> Matt
> 
> Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


Good try, Matt, but that's not it. It is a dive-watch.


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

I think its a dive watch from Enicar...


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Well done, Nick. You're up next.


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

Here you go


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

I wanna say Tag?


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

No, it's not a Tag

Hint: It's got an Olympic connection.


----------



## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Omega Montreal?

Matt 


Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

busmatt said:


> Omega Montreal?
> 
> Matt
> 
> Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


You are right:-! Omega Seamaster Chrono-Quartz nicknamed "Albatross" for the Montreal Olympics 








You are next;-)


----------



## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Okay here goes, I have to just mention that I don't actually own one of these










Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

Rolex OysterQuartz;


----------



## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

nick10 said:


> Rolex OysterQuartz;


You are correct but I can't post the whole picture at the moment, your turn again, Nick

Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

busmatt said:


> You are correct but I can't post the whole picture at the moment, your turn again, Nick
> 
> Matt
> 
> Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


Ok, what's the movement;


----------



## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

nick10 said:


> Ok, what's the movement;
> View attachment 14950679


It looks like a bumper, Harwood?

Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Looks like an Eterna bumper movement?


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

It's a bumper movement, but not from Harwood or Eterna


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

When I first saw it, the spring suggested bumper movement, and the nice finishing made me think Lecoultre. But I couldn't identify it.


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

I think the clue is in that lever on the gear,no idea how it’s called,but agree those Geneva stripes are a sign of well finished movement.A search brings up Zenith for that lever on gear.I am entering Hartmut’s domain with Zenith but yeah,I say Zenith.


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Emre said:


> I think the clue is in that lever on the gear,no idea how it's called,but agree those Geneva stripes are a sign of well finished movement.A search brings up Zenith for that lever on gear.I am entering Hartmut's domain with Zenith but yeah,I say Zenith.


Well-done. Is that odd part simply to hold the movement in place against the case-back? Is it some sort of shock-protection? What is it???!!!


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

No idea really what that thingy may be let’s wait for the OP and learn what that is.I may be wrong actually with Zenith because initially Eterna had a similar lever. In these self quarantine days I don’t have something better to do, I even re-stored my website in the last 5 days 🙂 Also learning bits and pieces through the forum and this game .


----------



## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

All I can say is that I recognised it instantly (which should give you a clue as to what it is) and that I kept my mouth shut because I can't think of anything to post as a next movement! The added bit pushes this movement - since it's a bumper, you've got problems with movement holder screws - towards the front so that it doesn't rattle inside the case.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Well then, I think it's fair to say that it is @Emre's turn.


----------



## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

Hello, and sorry for keeping you waiting, Emre is right, it's a Zenith movement. More precicely it's the Zenith 133.8. So Emre you are next


----------



## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Nice touch, you learn something new everyday. Didn't know the function of that pin.

So here comes my question, should be easy. A whole case this time. Which watch is this?


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

On first glance I thought Angelus Tinkler but I think we might need a clue


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Angelus Tinkler chimes for you James, no clues needed. The company who turned AS 1560 into a repeater, crazy people...

The stage is yours sir.


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Okay - does anyone know who made this watch?


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

That's a Mido Powerwind Rainbow Diver, I believe.


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Dan - spot on


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

OK, this may be too easy, but I'm quite proud of the photo. ;-)


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

You got the right person to dance with, I think it's one of these Dan. I see your Airman and raise it to some more Airman

















Yours was obviously serviced by Werner Siegriest in the US, whitening the tips was his kind of signature


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Correct, of course, @emre.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

That was a pleasant surprise Dan, a watch I built a whole website for. Really nice close up photo of that hacking pin. If you allow me will use it in Glycintennial with reference to you?

So here comes my question may be a bit hard, that's why with a close up and patent drawings. Movement maker please:


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

So funny, Emre, I didn't know that was your great website. You're welcome to use the photo of course, I just took it for the game. Let me know if you want higher resolution.


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Emre said:


> That was a pleasant surprise Dan, a watch I built a whole website for. Really nice close up photo of that hacking pin. If you allow me will use it in Glycintennial with reference to you?
> 
> So here comes my question may be a bit hard, that's why with a close up and patent drawings. Movement maker please:
> 
> ...


Looks like a Baumgartner 92!

Regards.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Certainly a recognizable caliber for members who are into early automatics, yes James you're right, a Baumgartner 92 impulse automatic as they call it. I need one actually in my collection, it's one of those missing in the line but not easy to spot.


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Dan S said:


> So funny, Emre, I didn't know that was your great website. You're welcome to use the photo of course, I just took it for the game. Let me know if you want higher resolution.


Thank you Dan, the resolution is already quiet good.I've added it now in the Airman 1964-72 era: https://glycintennial.com/glycine-airman
Thanks again


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Who knows the name of the chronograph this case belongs to?

Regards,


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Is it the original, or the 2013 re-issue? ;-)


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Roamer Stingray Chrono Diver?


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Dan S said:


> Roamer Stingray Chrono Diver?
> 
> View attachment 14958623


You got it!

Regards,


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

OK, coming back to vintage divers, this watch has a distinctive case-back. The screw releases the stem.


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Dan S said:


> OK, coming back to vintage divers, this watch has a distinctive case-back. The screw releases the stem.
> 
> View attachment 14959697


Sandoz Typhoon ?


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Well done, James.


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Okay - here's another diver but do you know who made it?









Regards,


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

I recognize the "Aquastar" case, but that was used by many manufacturers, and I'm not familiar with the dial.


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

My guess would be Buler?

Matt 


Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

busmatt said:


> My guess would be Buler?
> 
> Matt
> 
> Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


Winner,winner 

Regards,


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Ok then,










Matt

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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Huh Matt Looks like a case-back, probably monocoque case,of ?


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Emre said:


> Huh Matt Looks like a case-back, probably monocoque case,of ?


It's part of a dial, if you "THINK" (there's a clue in that) 

Matt

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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Does this help?










Matt

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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

busmatt said:


> Does this help?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it a stick of chewing gum? ;-)


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Possibly as strong  but not Chewing gum

Matt

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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

busmatt said:


> It's part of a dial, if you "THINK" (there's a clue in that)
> 
> Matt
> 
> Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


cogito,ergo sum...
My THINKING: Swiss mark on dial is not in usual place at 6 o'clock and the timepiece is so small between your fingers it's probably from '30s or '40s, still doesn't help much...
We may need more clues maybe? Matt you beat us to this thing


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

The clue is in the word THINk and it's from the late 70's early 80's and the Swiss is at the bottom 

Matt

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## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

It looks like the Omega Delirium(or a similar name).


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

nick10 said:


> It looks like the Omega Delirium(or a similar name).


I think that is close enough, Concord Delirium. A watch so thin that strapping it too tight to your wrist broke the movement 



















You're next

Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


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## rickhufnagel7 (May 25, 2017)

I legitimately spent an hour last night before I fell asleep, searching for thin vintage Swiss watches to match this one. Never thought to look at quartz! 

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


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## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

busmatt said:


> I think that is close enough, Concord Delirium. A watch so thin that strapping it too tight to your wrist broke the movement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I knew that Concord had a similar watch to Omega Delirium but I totally forgot about it

Ok here is an interesting one: Which brand made this watch;


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

nick10 said:


> Ok here is an interesting one: Which brand made this watch;


I think you forgot the movement photo. ;-)


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

That would probably have made it too easy. I think the clue might be in the inner 24 hour scale.....

Hartmut Richter


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Longines?

Matt 


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Longines was also my first thought but they had knurled bezel no ( not a functional bezel though )?


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## nick10 (Dec 25, 2008)

busmatt said:


> Longines?
> 
> Matt
> 
> Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


Yes you are correct;-) I thought that at least one woud assume it's a Panerai:-d:-d Don't you think that the case looks like of a Panerai;









You are next:-!


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Okay then










Matt

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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Nice one Nick, for some reason it looked very generic '30s to me and the Czech aviators Longines obviously occupies more bytes in my brain than civilian versions.

Matt, interesting find again. Let Me Google That


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Emre said:


> Nice one Nick, for some reason it looked very generic '30s to me and the Czech aviators Longines obviously occupies more bytes in my brain than civilian versions.
> 
> Matt, interesting find again. Let Me Google That


We have a winner










You're next

Matt

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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Actually, cushion cases were so common in the 1920s that I would have guessed Rolex.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

:think: When I was in the Navy, the 20:00-24:00 watch was the "First" watch, not the "Evening" watch..... (and the Dog watches were split into "First Dog" and "Last Dog").

Hartmut Richter


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Nice watch Matt.

Here comes my question, which watch has this crown configuration:


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

I haven't got a Scooby  anyone else?

Matt

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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

busmatt said:


> I haven't got a Scooby  anyone else?
> 
> Matt
> 
> Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


Never seen it.


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Emre said:


> Nice watch Matt.
> 
> Here comes my question, which watch has this crown configuration:
> 
> View attachment 14972307


Hi Emre,

Is the crown operating at right angle to the case??

Regards,


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

James A said:


> Hi Emre,
> 
> Is the crown operating at right angle to the case??
> 
> Regards,


I'm actually wondering if it's not the actual winding crown but maybe screws down to somehow lock the top and bottom of the case together for some reason?

Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

James and Matt you are both on right track


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Oh come on , give us a little clue 

Matt

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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

It could lock the Bezel, sort of like the Longines Hour angle etc

Matt

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## Emre (May 16, 2012)

Mmmhh I thought it’s an easy one,ok so the clue: this timepiece also shows directions ...


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Emre said:


> Mmmhh I thought it's an easy one,ok so the clue: this timepiece also shows directions ...


Got it Breitling Colt thingy










Matt

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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

My turn










Easy, isn't it?

Matt

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## Liizio (Oct 14, 2015)

busmatt said:


> My turn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Omega Memomaster?


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Liizio said:


> Omega Memomaster?


Told you it was easy, LOL










An awesome piece of horological history

Matt

You're next

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## Liizio (Oct 14, 2015)

I was lucky, I remembered my early Tissot LCD having excactly those same texts, and it wasn't hard narrowing down my options from there!

Okay, next one can be a tad hard. Or not. What's this and what's it (supposed to) do?


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Liizio said:


> I was lucky, I remembered my early Tissot LCD having excactly those same texts, and it wasn't hard narrowing down my options from there!
> 
> Okay, next one can be a tad hard. Or not. What's this and what's it (supposed to) do?
> View attachment 14975673


A watch movement and Tell the time? 

Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

I believe it's a Pierce Lever movement, possibly a cal 105 variant with a Parashock protection device.


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## Liizio (Oct 14, 2015)

It is a Pierce alright, but the shock protection is done by a plain ol' Incabloc. Here's a shot of the dial side minus the hour wheel, if it gives yous some inspiration.


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Some sort of auto-regulating mechanism?


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## Liizio (Oct 14, 2015)

Dan S said:


> Some sort of auto-regulating mechanism?


Bingo! Since you also knew it was a Pierce, I'll give you the next one.

Horrible contraption, IMO. Extremely interesting and unique, but I can hardly think it caused anything but trouble


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

That was a good one @Lizio.

OK, let's see if anyone can guess the chronograph that belongs to this movement. Note that there are actually some other hints in the photo beyond the movement.


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Dan S said:


> That was a good one @Lizio.
> 
> OK, let's see if anyone can guess the chronograph that belongs to this movement. Note that there are actually some other hints in the photo beyond the movement.
> 
> View attachment 14976849


It's got funny knurled pushers, is that a clue?

Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

Mido Multi Centerchrono ?

Regards,


----------



## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

James A said:


> Mido Multi Centerchrono ?
> 
> Regards,


Bingo. And the movement is a Mido 1300, based on a Valjoux caliber.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Excellent stuff! Which gives me an appropriate opportunity to close the thread. I am sorry but the nonlinear structure of the answers has made it too difficult to moderate. You are welcome to open another new thread on the subject and, in the opening post, link to this one for reference.

Edit: the speed of the members here forced me to act myself. Here is the new thread:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/f11-game-ww-second-thread-5152605.html

Hartmut Richter


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