# _really_ bad luck with a fortis purchase......



## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

i need to start off by saying that i'll be leaving certain information out of the posting since i'm going to see how well it all resolves.

but here's how it all went down.

1. i've wanted a pilot pro day/date on a bracelet for a while. BUT.....i also want the sapphire crystal _with_ AR coating, a glass back, and extra leather strap.

i look around and find on dealer that is in the US and find myself surprised by his price for the total package (everything listed above).

2. i get him my info and card number, for the deposit, so he can order the watch from LWR and the extras.

3. AFTER he charges my card for the deposit....he tells me he quoted me the wrong price. the price he should have quoted me was another $160 more.

4. the price is still very good even at $160 more than the original quote. so i say "OK, let's go".

5. the watch arrives today. i notice several things.


 a. there is no dealer stamp on the warranty card. nothing at all actually.

 b. the anti glare doesn't seem to be working very well (or might not be on there at all) as i can see the glare coming from several lights in the house. i'm wondering if this is just the sapphire crystal that has no AR coating. i'm going to go outdoors tomorrow and see if i notice a difference.

 c. there is a very subtle but visible smudge on the dial face. also, there's a few cloth fibers stuck to the inside of the crystal that can easily be seen without straining my eye.
 
 d. lastly...and strangest of all......i was observing the second hand when it suddenly stopped. now some might say it just needs a winding but i'd assume that the dealer would check that and set the watch for the local time knowing that, that's where it was going. is that too much to ask?

 e. as a final issue.....the cost minus the shipping does not add up to what was quoted after he made a change to the original. it's over by about $15.00.
so now i have to call them back and bring up these issues. some might say they are minor, but in the world of watches.....aren't the details _supposed_ to be a big deal. i mean we are dealing with small, intricate, exacting machines.....shouldn't the dealers strive for attention to details?

does anyone think i'm way off in bringing these issues up to the dealer?

would anyone do different if they were in this situation?

also....does anyone know how much of a reduction in glare the AR coating actually gives?

i really wanted to be excited about getting a fortis but this has really ruined my outlook at the prospect of owning a fortis.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your issues.. Is the dealer AD? If so, they should resolve all your issues for you.

Second, you can easily tell if the crystal was AR coated. you should see bluish tint to the crystal. My (ex) Fortis B-42 Chrono Costmo had black dial but sometimes it looked blue.


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

RAREM5...yeah....he is an authorized fortis dealer. i talked to lwr and they confirmed this before i purchased. 

i'll look again and maybe post a pic as i'm not too sure about the AR coating.....maybe it's only on the inside of the crystal?

pics posting shortly as i just woke up.....


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## MarkJnK (Nov 10, 2006)

You have every right to be upset. Anytime you spend more than $200 on a watch, it better be darn near perfect. You shouldn't have to accept lint under the crystal, or a smudged dial, absolutely not. If the dealer is an AD, he should take care of these issues without any objection at all. 

I had a Fortis where the second hand stopped for no reason. The reason ended up being one of the movement retaining screws inside the case was sheared of and the screw got stuck in the movement to stop it. The watch also had a spotty Anti-reflective coating, and link screws that sheared off insted of unscrewing. My watch apparently came from an AD also, but through a middle man?? Could we have been dealing with the same guy? I wonder. Anyways, my local Fortis repair center (in Canada) replaced the watch head for me under warranty, and provided new links for the bracelet. The end result was a perfect watch, but my first experience was incredibly disappointing.

PM me and let me know who you bought from, I'm curious if someone is dealing with returned or refurbished goods.


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

ok....time to get to work but here are the photos....

one showing a bit of glare....although maybe it's an extreme angle.....and the others showing the cloth fibers in there as well as little bits of dust here and there.....

i couldn't get a shot of the smudge on the dial since it's not as easy to see with a camera as it is to see the fibers.....but it's there and in an outdoor setting you can see it as a spot that's darker than the rest of the dial.





































i'll try to get pictures later today as i was in a bit of a rush.....please let me know your thoughts.....


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## MarkJnK (Nov 10, 2006)

Maybe I'm a suspicious guy, but those fibers are not from the factory. Somebody has opened that watch that has no experience with watch repair. Those fibers are big and easily seen by an experienced watch repairman. Also, the date alignment is terrible. Send it back asap. <|


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

hey guys...
actually, I too have seen those sort of quality issues on some of the Fortis.
:-(
sad I know but I still love my Fortis'.
I have seen smudges in the AR coating on the inside, misaligned lume paint on an 
indice, shifty dials (retainer not down tight enough) and maybe a few other things.
But, even with all the things I have seen, for the money and the build, they are great
watches and a really nice bang for the buck.
You can send watches back and they'll fix them under warranty with no problem.
It just sort of puts a bad taste in your mouth when thinking of buying another.
(for some that is, as I have gotten past that)


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## Watchesnboats (Jan 4, 2007)

The reason you buy new is to not have to fool with these imperfections, small or not. Send it back and if the AD won't make it right, I would let Fortis know directly. 

I agree with previous poster, this watch was opened up by someone other than the watch shop. 

Imperfections are going to happen anytime you are dealing with fine timepieces, what seperates brands is how they handle them. This is why I love my Kobolds


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

et al......let me state something to clear up a misconception....this watch _was_ opened up to swap the standard sapphire crystal for a sapphire crystal and a glass back.


so....this is not a reflection of Fortis but of the AD who did the work.



MarkJnK...as for the date alignment.....i've not done anything to the watch as far adjustment so maybe this is the reason for this?



cuckoo4watches...thing is....even with some fault......which i've seen none on any fortis (doesn't mean there aren't any).....even so.....nothing looks like a fortis. 



Watchesnboats....i'm not one to give second chances. if someone can't get something right.....and it's their _job_ to get it right.....seems silly to offer a second chance. but that's just me. 

kobolds are nice but again...nothing looks like Fortis.


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

agree... Fortis is something special and once you have one, and one without some screwups, you will never not have one in your collection.
If I had the money, I'd have several. 

good luck with all that...
i'd just return it, get the refund (unless you gotta be harsh and do a charge-back on the CC), and then go to my man Gary.

PM me if you want.

all the best


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## MarkJnK (Nov 10, 2006)

I agree with Steve, give it back. If the watch was opened by the dealer, then you might have some issues with a straight-up return, but this is where the integrity of the dealer comes into play. The bad date alignment has nothing to do with an adjustment. At 5:30 am or pm, the day/date should be aligned. The switch happens between 10pm and 2am. They are not always perfect, but yours is very bad.

I wish you luck. I had a bad experience, then Fortis made it right. I then bought another Fortis and couldn't be happier with it. Hopefully a similar outcome awaits you.

p.s. Martin, if you read this, the Lume Dial MarineMaster that I sold you was the Fortis replacement for the bad one. The one I sold you was 100% new (head) and perfect. I don't want you to think I sold you a troubled watch :-!


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

pics of the black warranty card (no stamp and not even filled out).....










on closer inspection, i find a bent spring bar......










i'm impressed with the lume on fortis watches in general....the picture is not super crisp but this was just a few seconds near a lightbulb.....










the AD doesn't seem to think these are issues that he should have to deal with so onto the next step. i'll post in a few days......

this has really ruined my week.

on the bright side i'd been recommended another dealer who is on top of things and i can see i'll end up getting my pilot pro through him...as well as my B-42 pilot pro......

my brother saw my fortis catalog and now he wants a B-42 Marine Master day/date....

it's the Fortis look that's really draws the eye.


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## MarkJnK (Nov 10, 2006)

Something deosn't smell right with the dealer. Go over his head and call/email Fortis USA.

Mark


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## snorkeler (Sep 17, 2006)

Your AD sounds like a tool, I'd just deal directly with Fortis. I'd email Fortis USA and let them handle your crummy AD. Fortis' repair agent, Providence Watch Hospital is excellent, they'll fix everything and get it back in a few weeks.


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

et al......i called Fortis earlier today and the rep was quite surprised to hear all of this. 

they told me that they believe the AD should be handling all of this not directing me to PWH. 

i asked the AD....since this watch is 3 whole days old....should i have to pay shipping to send it off to someone else to fulfill a warranty issue that i believe was cause by the AD?

his response was that, he would not pay for shipping as this is a fortis issue (which it's not) and that it's a minor shipping charge (the amount isn't the issue.....it's basic customer service).


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## dbluefish (Apr 4, 2007)

Once you kick this AD's butt back to Colorado(I am a Sox fan lol), demand your money bacj=k and do not deal with him again. Markus is a member of this forum and he got me a BNIB Fortis Auto Pilot PVD for a great price, AD seal on it and full warranty. Watis beautiful and fun to wear. Others have dealt whth Mark and I believe most have had a good relationship.

But don't let this sour you on the brand. Piss on the AD but Fortis is an above board company in my experience.

paul|>


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## selliott58 (Feb 11, 2006)

I was just getting ready to drop Fortis a line to find out which movement my Cosmonauts Chrono has when I read your post....I feel for you. 

I hate to throw stones, and never want to start a pissing match, but if this watch came from an AD, please let us know so we can re - think possible purchases. Just looking at the watch and the lack of care taken with it by the dealer is staggering.o|

Hopefully Fortis can aid in resolving the problem for you.


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## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

It's always unfortunate to hear of a situation like this. From what you've told us it sounds like the AD is not providing the kind of service you should be entitled to. Please let us know what happens when you talk to Fortis.


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

et al.....well here's an update......

the dealer has refused to do anything at all except to direct me to PWH to have it serviced under warranty. even though the watch is....well...now 4 days old. 

fortis has flatly stated that this is an AD issue and that it needs to be resolved by the AD. but since the AD won't......fortis says the best thing to do is to send it PWH and all the work will be done for free. all of it. 

the credit card company gave me some hoops to jump through to get a charge back happening BUT......the process would take over _2 months_ from start to finish and would only be fruitful IF the charge back went through. 

personally ...i don't have time to hassle with second opinions and sending the watch here and there and keeping copies of such and such paper work....and sending it all to them and making a case of the whole thing.


thing is......even though i've only glanced at the watch a few times this whole time it's been on my desk.....i REALLY like it......a LOT. 

the pilot pro lacks all of the features found on the more popular models but the look of it is all purpose with hints of style here and there. understated is really a good word. eye catching simplicity that operates under the radar of most eyes.


so i've made a decision.....i'm going to send the the watch to PWH and get a full, complete, total, and thorough service done on the watch.

when i get the watch back.....it's going on eBay. no reserve. someone will get a mighty fine deal on a perfect Pilot Pro Date/Date, with optional sapphire crystal WITH double AR coating (inside and out), glass back, fortis stainless bracelet, fortis leather strap, and if it ever needs work within the two year warranty period, they'll have the option of sending it to me and i'll send it in to PWH so they avoid any charges.

i get the short end of the stick from start to finish but....but what more can i say?


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## MarkJnK (Nov 10, 2006)

It is unfortunate that the dealer is such a pain in the patootsy. 
I'll never use them after hearing this story.

One thing I don't understand... when the watch returns from PWH after the full spa treatment, why would you sell it? You like it right? Its an awesome watch right? When it comes back, it will be perfect and you'll have the watch you have been waiting for. Why lose money on eBay?

I know you are furious, thats understandable, but this is not Fortis' fault, it is the dealer's. They messed up the watch. Fortis is going to make it right for you and pay for the repair at PWH, so why not thank them by wearing the watch with pride, and make sure that everyone you know never buys a thing from that dealer. 

Have the watch fixed for free, as good as new, you win.|>
Tell all your friends about the dealer and their service, Dealer loses.<|

Regards,
Mark


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

MarkJnK.....don't get me wrong...there is one constant...the watch ROCKS! fortis rocks!

but...i guess i'm trying to rid myself of the negative association that the watch will have for as long as i own it. 

i imagine most conversations will go like this: yeah....it's a great watch but the dealer i got it from sucks the big one and it was a real ordeal after the sale (followed by the story).

i'd really rather it go like this: the watch is great, the dealer i got this watch from is great....if you're interested in a fortis call him up.....he's a top notch guy.

i prefer the positive. not that i think everything life needs to accentuate the positive....that's not realistic.....but in this case...something i plan to keep for a long time should have a positive association.

=================================================

another update....Eric at Fortis called me, he got my story on the whole deal. he sprung into action and was just as stunned to hear the details. 

he's going to have a talk with the dealer.

eric sent out a call tag so i can get the watch to fortis who will inspect it themselves, then send the watch to PWH and expedite the shipping both ways.

wow! 

but...while eric did say he wanted to make it right, he did (and i really have a TON of respect for eric and Fortis) say he fully understood if i had no more confidence in the dealer or this very specific watch that was sent to me. that means a lot. 

i think some might get the impression by all of this that i'm hard to please or that i'm not grateful for the effort from Fortis. but this has nothing to do with fortis at all. it has to do with the dealer who obviously botched a deal. 

so....now i wait to see what will come of fortis' involvement in this matter. 

but i'm also left wanting to check the time every few minutes on a sharp looking fortis.


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## selliott58 (Feb 11, 2006)

I just received information directly from Fortis regarding some specific questions about a watch. They have always been super in responding to my needs from a technical and - or simple question standpoint. Frankly Fortis (the company) is great, and I am pleased to see them treating you so well.

The AD..............sounds like a bit of a codpiece. I truly hope that Fortis deals with him accordingly.:rodekaart

I also understand you taking the high road in terms of not bashing the dealer out here, but if you are comfortable with it please send it to me in a private message as I rather think I'll be avoiding him for future purchases.


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## Vincent M (Apr 26, 2007)

Hi Mark!

I just stumbled on your post below, and i can tell you that I'm very happy with my Lume Dial MarineMaster! :-! I knew from reading your posts before buying that you were an honest straight shooter, and with your message below you confirm once again that you are a great guy! Thanks again for a smooth transaction! :thanks
--
Martin



MarkJnK said:


> I agree with Steve, give it back. If the watch was opened by the dealer, then you might have some issues with a straight-up return, but this is where the integrity of the dealer comes into play. The bad date alignment has nothing to do with an adjustment. At 5:30 am or pm, the day/date should be aligned. The switch happens between 10pm and 2am. They are not always perfect, but yours is very bad.
> 
> I wish you luck. I had a bad experience, then Fortis made it right. I then bought another Fortis and couldn't be happier with it. Hopefully a similar outcome awaits you.
> 
> p.s. Martin, if you read this, the Lume Dial MarineMaster that I sold you was the Fortis replacement for the bad one. The one I sold you was 100% new (head) and perfect. I don't want you to think I sold you a troubled watch :-!


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

selliott58....i don't mind letting people to steer clear of this AD but i'll post when it's all resolved. which should be on monday.

i bought this watch on the first week of oct and it's now the first few of nov......i'm just glad that i'm at the end of this ordeal.


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## Fred Lee (Oct 23, 2006)

hess said:


> selliott58....i don't mind letting people to steer clear of this AD but i'll post when it's all resolved. which should be on monday.
> 
> i bought this watch on the first week of oct and it's now the first few of nov......i'm just glad that i'm at the end of this ordeal.


I also want to know who this AD is. Please PM me when time comes. Thanks.


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

about 5 or 4 months after purchase i have an update from eric at LWR.

i'm about to get my watch back. well...almost.

it seems that for some reason....after THREE trips, to and from, LWR to PWH, the watch could not be repaired. proper repaired that is.

so eric at LWR decided to just start with a fresh watch. again...LWR (the fortis dist for the US) goes far above what i expected.

he said it would ship out today or tomorrow and that i should see it soon.

so it seems there will be resolution....or...rather...there already is.

this was the first fortis pilot pro i purchased and i really felt as though i'd been ripped off.

eric, jeff, and danielle (sp), at LWR have exceeded all my expectations as far as service after the rather unfortunate circumstances of the sale.

while i wish i didn't need to wait 4 months after purchasing the watch, only to have it replaced.....at least there is no doubt in my mind, and in this particular case, that LWR does indeed properly represent Fortis beyond expectation.

i wanted to wait to reveal the dealer's name for two reasons.

1. if it was truly a Fortis issue, LWR would have been sure to just say so. i didn't want to cast a shadow over the dealer.

2. it seemed that when something went wrong that the dealer just brushed me aside and waved me off to LWR. he tried to absolve himself from having to do anything other than sell me the watch. service is the other half of sales. in fact some would consider it more important than the sale itself.

the dealer in this case was Andrew at TNS Diamonds

it seems someone else has had issues with andrew's brand of business.

http://www.tnsdiamonds.net/

at any rate....when the watch arrives i'll be sure to post pics.


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## ayecarumba (Feb 25, 2008)

Wow Hess! What an ordeal! I commend you for patiently engaging the dealer and Fortis to resolve your issues. I see too many "yes men" who are too forgiving when they're paying premium price for a premium product. Sounds like the solution is the best possible outcome for you.

I've had issues with another brands quality control, but my ADs ensured the issues were resolved. My second AD actually extends the mfrs warranty a year beyond the 2 it comes with, which recently saved my bacon. As he said, it's up to the dealer to "close the circle" in the purchase experience and ensure the customer is satisfied. 

Let us know and post some pics in a followup!

Hmmm, now do I get the B42 GMT or not!;-)


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

ayecarumba, et al.....if i pay for something, i expect....at the very least...to get what is offered to me. this was not the case. 

in this case LWR, Fortis' distributor had to step in _for the dealer_ and make things right. this usually shows a simple, clear, and unmistakable issue with the dealer. of this there can be no doubt. and to step around the bare, stark, truth, is to dilute one's self. 

while i'm not pleased at having to immediately get handed over to LWR a few days after purchasing the watch, LWR did things the right way. 

they replaced the watch, that proved to be too costly to repair, after THREE trips to Providence Watch Hospital, and start things fresh with a whole new everything. 


the package arrived today and i opened it up and it was packed VERY well. i haven't had time to check out the whole thing but i'll take pics tomorrow.


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## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

hess said:


> ayecarumba, et al.....if i pay for something, i expect....at the very least...to get what is offered to me. this was not the case.
> 
> in this case LWR, Fortis' distributor had to step in _for the dealer_ and make things right. this usually shows a simple, clear, and unmistakable issue with the dealer. of this there can be no doubt. and to step around the bare, stark, truth, is to dilute one's self.
> 
> ...


Thanks again Hess for the update, this one has been a long journey, let's hope it ends on a positive note!


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

et al....ok....so after all this time, ifinally have a Fortis Pilot Pro with a sapphire crystal with the AR coating inside and out, the obsevation back, a leather strap and the bracelet and the paper work all in order and flawless.

i took this pics quickly and didn't have time to wipe the crystal so you'll see tiny bits of dust but it's only on the outside.

aside from that....i looked as best as i could and could find no problems.

i'll post much better pics when i have more time.

and just to mention it again, this is a totally new watch from the one sold to me by TNS Diamonds. that watch was so botched by TNS that they ended up replacing the whole thing.


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## beebox (Jan 12, 2008)

nice looking watch u have!

i'm sure u will be very happy with it.:-!


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## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

Wow man, you finally got it.....whew! Looks sweet, as it should. |>|>


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## HelloNasty1 (Jul 8, 2007)

Good to see it all worked out for you!!!!!!!


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## whifferdill (Jan 11, 2007)

What an episode! Looks great now though - I love mine - had it for 6 years and it's still my 'everyday' wear watch - perhaps even my favorite! The AR coating is among the best I have experienced and it's a very rugged watch with one of the most attractive, legible dials available IMHO. Hope you enjoy it now it's been rectified. All the best.


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

et al.....well....i figure since i now own a proper working fortis, might as well wear it. 

been wearing it for the last few days since i got it and it's REALLY easy to read at a slight glance. 

the AR coating is something i think i could not live without. with other watches i always had to turn my wrist fully until the glare was gone but with the AR coating, i only have to glance and it's readable from almost any angle. smart stuff!

it's also amazing how easy it is to read in low light. even when the lume isn't fully charged i could still read it in a dark cab or in my truck without any need for a light. 

it's got enough weight to let me know it's there but not so much that it feels needlessly heavy. 

accuracy is very good.....seems to be about 1 to 2 seconds off for three days of use. 

the leather strap is very comfortable and the metal bracelet is very nice. 

i only wish the first loop on the strap was set back a bit more so i don't have to bend the end of the strap so much. 

the box is nice to store the watch in and i very much like knowing that if it falls off my desk that it'll have a safe landing. 

i'll write a proper review of the watch when i get the other one back. by then i'll have taken some trips out of town. that's when i feel i need a watch the most.


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## BIG CHRONO (Feb 8, 2006)

As the enclosed link reveals, the BBB should
be updated about these vermins, so their ra-
ting will be properly adjusted to unsatisfactory. 
Also, TNS should permanently be stripped of its
Fortis authorized/certified dealer privileges. Losing
AD status is no small matter, & it will create nega-
tive repercussions. Hopefully, that other unfortunate 
individual can get some proper justice without going
further through Hell. Now, savor the moments, & in-
sure your Fortis against theft, loss, damage, & inept
AD's. :thanks

http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=Y&compid=80011676


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## ralliart12 (Jul 6, 2013)

RAREM5 said:


> ... Second, you can easily tell if the crystal was AR coated. you should see bluish tint to the crystal. My (ex) Fortis B-42 Chrono Costmo had black dial but sometimes it looked blue.


Actually, does this only apply to glass with EXTERNAL AR coating?


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