# Article Introducing New Sub 300 Carbon



## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

Here's a link to the Hodinkee article that introduces Doxa's newest and latest Sub! It was published this morning.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/d...ua-lung-us-divers-limited-edition-introducing


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Of course it’s a looker after all it’s a doxa but at that price people are going to lose money from day one , no way will one of these sell near retail price on the secondary market ever


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Hands-on photos with prototype here - https://timeandtidewatches.com/hand...-divers-limited-edition-review-buy-australia/


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## shakin_jake (May 19, 2015)

Still looking for an Aqualung, orange dial, cushion case, under $2K


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

Monkeynuts said:


> Of course it's a looker after all it's a doxa but at that price people are going to lose money from day one , no way will one of these sell near retail price on the secondary market ever


I think you underestimate watch collectors and their willingness to have something "RARE" in their collections. 5k is not very high in the watch world afterall.


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

shakin_jake said:


> Still looking for an Aqualung, orange dial, cushion case, under $2K


Is that even near possible? Seems like prices are on the way up for vintage doxas.


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## Egoeye (Apr 21, 2015)

For the most part, and I believe this approach applies to the majority of watch collecting, buy what you like at the price you can afford because watched ae not investment. With that said, I'm sure these watches will sell out. Maybe not as quick as the aqualung, but I believe they all will be sold.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Raym0016 said:


> I think you underestimate watch collectors and their willingness to have something "RARE" in their collections. 5k is not very high in the watch world afterall.


Well, yes and no. As an example. I have a 30th Anniversary Speedmaster (one with the eagle has landed caseback) Mint condition with everything. Probably worth 3.5 grand. Everyone knows what a speedmaster is, they can go into Watch shops and handle them. Omega is a "premium" marque. Doxas SUBs were / are sold in a very few places. Anyone new to the brand will buy sight unseen unless they know someone with one. Doxa has a great history and the last 20 years has seen a great resurrections, but I would argue they are not mainstream. They are still a bit of a niche in many ways. They grew under the Marei reign thanks to a rabid fan base and Cussler association. I was one of those guys. Especially in the early days there was real sense of family.

The new Doxa doesn't get it. They shafted Rick and don't have any sense of what the brand was or is. They have their plants in the forums etc trying to generate some kind of hurrah, but sure doesn't seem to be working. The Sub 200 watches are selling for far less than they were bought for. Heck couple of 750Ts have been well below 2K and the new T-Graphs have sold for less than bought. So I argue that 5K is high in the Doxa watch world especially for a "plastic" watch which looks like a Doxa and no-one other than a few journalists have actually handled them. The people who will plonk down 5 grand are taking a risk. Personally I can't see the 300 selling out and I also think the second hand value will drop.

I'm a Doxa fanboy..well let me clarify that. I'm a vintage and Marei era Doxa fanboy. As for the new Doxa, they have a long way to go and seem to have fallen asleep at the wheel.


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## achilles (Jan 6, 2009)

shakin_jake said:


> Still looking for an Aqualung, orange dial, cushion case, under $2K


Good luck! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Well, yes and no. As an example. I have a 30th Anniversary Speedmaster (one with the eagle has landed caseback) Mint condition with everything. Probably worth 3.5 grand. Everyone knows what a speedmaster is, they can go into Watch shops and handle them. Omega is a "premium" marque. Doxas SUBs were / are sold in a very few places. Anyone new to the brand will buy sight unseen unless they know someone with one. Doxa has a great history and the last 20 years has seen a great resurrections, but I would argue they are not mainstream. They are still a bit of a niche in many ways. They grew under the Marei reign thanks to a rabid fan base and Cussler association. I was one of those guys. Especially in the early days there was real sense of family.
> 
> The new Doxa doesn't get it. They shafted Rick and don't have any sense of what the brand was or is. They have their plants in the forums etc trying to generate some kind of hurrah, but sure doesn't seem to be working. The Sub 200 watches are selling for far less than they were bought for. Heck couple of 750Ts have been well below 2K and the new T-Graphs have sold for less than bought. So I argue that 5K is high in the Doxa watch world especially for a "plastic" watch which looks like a Doxa and no-one other than a few journalists have actually handled them. The people who will plonk down 5 grand are taking a risk. Personally I can't see the 300 selling out and I also think the second hand value will drop.
> 
> I'm a Doxa fanboy..well let me clarify that. I'm a vintage and Marei era Doxa fanboy. As for the new Doxa, they have a long way to go and seem to have fallen asleep at the wheel.


I appreciate your time in explaining that and your opinion. As it stands, I am new to Doxa and missed all of the drama of the last 6-8 months or so. I get a deep sense of a few very outspoken hard core Doxa collectors portraying a sense of being let down by the brand. Your post helps put some of that into context now. Interestingly, I had Zero interest in Doxa until a couple weeks ago when I started to research the brand. I think perhaps even though I was very aware of the brand prior, the feeling of "Family" and exclusivity, along with the fact that all of the previous watches were "special editions" or otherwise limited runs was a MAJOR turn off to me. I mentioned this elsewhere. I am the new DOXA customer, I finally was able to go to their website and pick what ever color I wanted and have it shipped to me without it being a numbered edition. They are trying to bring Doxa into the mainstream, they can't just continue to satisfy the old guard, they need to attract me and others to buy their watches. Perhaps they could do it without alienating the "old guard" but maybe the new approach could allow them to sell 2-10x as many watches as they sell today if they are successful in attracting buyers like myself. Plus, the new 300T has a few attributes that some previous iterations don't have, the clasp, the flat crystal, etc. I personally think the domed crystal on 50th and this Carbon fiber watch looks stupid. It adds nothing to the watch but detracts from it, at least in photos. There is nothing vintage about it, its a boxy ugly sapphire crystal that further obscures the smallish dial. Similar to how I would pick a hesalite speedy over a sapphire any day. I am rooting for Doxa to succeed. I have a vested interest because I just bought one. I must say, the watch came perfectly finished, the bezel action, winding, all top notch. Mine is running at +5 s/d out of the box in total, I am sure it will settle in nicely. Perhaps most importantly I get a "coolness" factor from wearing it that I haven't felt since I owned my 42mm Omega PO 2500d.


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## MONVMENTVM (Sep 17, 2009)

Raym0016 said:


> I appreciate your time in explaining that and your opinion. As it stands, I am new to Doxa and missed all of the drama of the last 6-8 months or so. I get a deep sense of a few very outspoken hard core Doxa collectors portraying a sense of being let down by the brand. Your post helps put some of that into context now. Interestingly, I had Zero interest in Doxa until a couple weeks ago when I started to research the brand. I think perhaps even though I was very aware of the brand prior, the feeling of "Family" and exclusivity, along with the fact that all of the previous watches were "special editions" or otherwise limited runs was a MAJOR turn off to me. I mentioned this elsewhere. I am the new DOXA customer, I finally was able to go to their website and pick what ever color I wanted and have it shipped to me without it being a numbered edition. They are trying to bring Doxa into the mainstream, they can't just continue to satisfy the old guard, they need to attract me and others to buy their watches. Perhaps they could do it without alienating the "old guard" but maybe the new approach could allow them to sell 2-10x as many watches as they sell today if they are successful in attracting buyers like myself. Plus, the new 300T has a few attributes that some previous iterations don't have, the clasp, the flat crystal, etc. I personally think the domed crystal on 50th and this Carbon fiber watch looks stupid. It adds nothing to the watch but detracts from it, at least in photos. There is nothing vintage about it, its a boxy ugly sapphire crystal that further obscures the smallish dial. Similar to how I would pick a hesalite speedy over a sapphire any day. I am rooting for Doxa to succeed. I have a vested interest because I just bought one. I must say, the watch came perfectly finished, and I get a "coolness" factor from wearing it that I haven't felt since I owned my 42mm Omega PO 2500d.


The Sub 300 50th anniversary models as well as this this new carbon one were based on the vintage original Sub 300. The 300T with the flat and larger diameter crystal etc. is based on the vintage Sub 300T that came after the 300 no-T. They look different because they are based on different watches. Now before this "new" 300T there was the 1200T (among many other models which most were in the ~2k max range towards their end) which was essentially almost the same watch as the new 300T and also based on the vintage 300T.

The 1200T came indeed in runs of 1200 pieces where they got improved here and there from one iteration to the other and they were basically available continuously throughout their run from 2010 until the new 300Ts came out not long ago.

Now compare that to the new Doxa: yes you have the 200 and 300T as unlimited models. But suddenly you get a 13 piece limited Sub 200 T.Graph in 18k gold for friggin' $70k. Mind you that was a model that many many people waited years for to actually happen. Ok, so with all the disappointment in the forums at the time, I'm sure you can find a post from me where I was being positive that a steel version will be released sooner or later - there was basically no way around it in my eyes. Come the time, a 300 piece limited edition steel 200 T.Graph is released for a still whopping $5k. A chrono Doxa for basically twice the price of the non-chrono models due to a movement that essentially costs a few hundred bucks. Interesting that they are still not sold out though, when the previous short limited runs of 300-500 pieces from the 50th anniversary models, Poseidon, etc. all sold out in a matter of days.

Now we get a 300 piece limited forged carbon Sub 300 for also almost $5k. And you are trying to say that the previous watches with their "special editions" or limited runs were a major turn off? And that they are trying to bring Doxa into the mainstream? Surely gonna happen with a 18k gold 13pc. limited Sub 200 T.Graph for $70000.

Satisfying their "old guard"? The new 300T is essentially the same as the 1200T that was available for 10 years anyway and I DO actually want that carbon model as well as the steel T.Graph. But for those prices I'd much rather buy something from e.g. Omega, Tudor or Breitling or save up a bit for a Rolex Sub or basic Panerai. As a matter of fact after the $5k T.Graph was released, I decided to buy a lightly used Sinn 103 St C chrono instead. Even for a slight increase in price over it's original sales price, due to it being limited to 100 pieces as well unfortunately. It was still less than half the price of the T.Graph from a nowadays much more recognized and reputable company with also a similar level of fit-and-finishing.

So how exactly are they going to increase their sales 2-10x? By making one model "unlimited" that earlier was easily available for 10 years anyway and new limited models that are actually ranging from ridiculous (carbon Sub 300, steel T.Graph) to embarrassing (gold T.Graph) in their pricing?


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## FishTime (Jun 21, 2018)

Similar to Raym0016, I'm new to Doxa (and may have been the lucky recipient last week of the last 300T Professional before they went temporarily out of stock, but that's a separate story). I'm stuck at home and spending a lot more time on my hobbies, watches being one of them. I've really enjoyed reading up on the history of Doxa, the brand's resurgence in the early 2000s, learning about all the models and reading opinions about the ownership changes.

What has honestly been fascinating is to see all the discussion that the introduction of this one carbon model has initiated. On the BRAND overall. We've got the whole spectrum here...some of us cheering a totally new model/direction for the brand, others absolutely trashing the brand (over the introduction of one new model!?), some debating the direction being taken by the new ownership, and others of us just looking on with mild interest. 

The way I see it, Doxa never really capitalized on their (legitimately significant!) place in history like Rolex and Omega did. Blancpain missed out to some degree as well, but they've certainly done better. With Doxa, there's a story here worth telling, and marketing, and profiting from, and that is a good thing! A business needs profit to survive - it's not being "greedy" (at least when it's in the business of discretionary luxury items).

To me it totally makes sense that in the early 2000s, the new ownership at the time "tested the waters" with a business model focused on limited runs of re-issues. These were smaller runs that wouldn't sink the company if they didn't take off, or at least would limit losses from excess inventory that didn't sell. Now that they've built some success and a following, it makes total sense to pivot into producing NON-limited editions. I would think that either ownership team would have done the same thing, the old one or the new one. I don't understand how someone would be sitting here pining away for the "good old days" when only 300 or 500 or 1000 of each model would be produced and that's it. If Doxa continued with that approach people would eventually start bashing them for "intentionally suppressing supply" (a la Rolex) to drive up prices. And by the way, what watch brand doesn't increase prices as the years go by!? I wouldn't expect a watch to sell today for the same price as a similar reference did 3-4 years ago. Last point here - across all the watch brands, I don't think we can determine logical pricing based on the cost of the materials or the cost or quality of the movement. There are plenty of brands marking up ETA movements and basic material construction WAY more than Doxa is. Astronomically more in fact. People pay for the design, the history, the story, the reputation of the brand, the image, the "art" almost, not just an aggregate of the parts.

In addition to moving away from the focus on limited/special decisions, I see other good business decisions being made here. Doxa has taken note that there's a demand in the market these days for personalization. Making multiple colorways available for each reference (6 for the new 300T!) is a smart move and drives interest and sales. Bringing the the US Divers association back is another solid move. It promotes Doxa's place in history, and is solid marketing. The new carbon model pushes the envelope and proves the brand isn't entirely focused on re-issues, and they are willing to innovate without sacrificing their historical significance. Is the new carbon model priced excessively high? Sure...it's high, but look across the market. Any carbon model is a huge markup, for Squale, Zenith, and anyone else doing it. We can debate whether a 50%, 100% or 150% markup is "too much" but let's face it - these will sell and sell well. Who gives a rip about what they'll be worth on upon resale, if you'll "get your money back", or if it's a "safe" buy? If you are buying watches with that expectation you're in trouble. There are VERY few watch brands that you are NOT going to lose money on with resale (Rolex, Journe, AP, PP being a few exceptions maybe).

My view...Doxa is doing a lot of things right. They are capitalizing on their history, transitioning to a more stable, intelligent, and growth-oriented business model, and a few years from now we may all be surprised at what the brand has become. On the contrary, continuing to sell a small set of limited run re-issues and avoiding anything innovative/different (that comes with a larger profit margin!) would be a mistake.


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## FishTime (Jun 21, 2018)

Double post, sorry


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## FishTime (Jun 21, 2018)

MONVMENTVM said:


> The Sub 300 50th anniversary models as well as this this new carbon one were based on the vintage original Sub 300. The 300T with the flat and larger diameter crystal etc. is based on the vintage Sub 300T that came after the 300 no-T. They look different because they are based on different watches. Now before this "new" 300T there was the 1200T (among many other models which most were in the ~2k max range towards their end) which was essentially almost the same watch as the new 300T and also based on the vintage 300T.


Question...originally, back in the late 60s, what exactly did the "T" designate? Did the SUB 300 not have tritium lume while the 300T had tritium lume? Or did the "T designate something totally different?

I appreciate the knowledge and history you guys have here, like I said above I'm quite new to Doxa.


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## MONVMENTVM (Sep 17, 2009)

FishTime said:


> Similar to Raym0016, I'm new to Doxa (and may have been the lucky recipient last week of the last 300T Professional before they went temporarily out of stock, but that's a separate story). I'm stuck at home and spending a lot more time on my hobbies, watches being one of them. I've really enjoyed reading up on the history of Doxa, the brand's resurgence in the early 2000s, learning about all the models and reading opinions about the ownership changes.
> 
> What has honestly been fascinating is to see all the discussion that the introduction of this one carbon model has initiated. On the BRAND overall. We've got the whole spectrum here...some of us cheering a totally new model/direction for the brand, others absolutely trashing the brand (over the introduction of one new model!?), some debating the direction being taken by the new ownership, and others of us just looking on with mild interest.
> 
> ...


Read my post above... that's exactly what they are unfortunately not doing. All the previous models (except for the many 50th anniversary Sub 300 no-T reissues, that actually sold through their limited supply like butter) were available for a long time. Now you guys are constantly lauding the company for the "new move" and "going mainstream" and "going forward" with "unlimited releases", when this is precisely what they are not doing, apart from their bread & butter model that was in one form or another _always_ available in the past 20 years. On the contrary they release limited edition series for prices many are not willing to pay, because they are simply not justified.


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## MONVMENTVM (Sep 17, 2009)

FishTime said:


> Question...originally, back in the late 60s, what exactly did the "T" designate? Did the SUB 300 not have tritium lume while the 300T had tritium lume? Or did the "T designate something totally different?
> 
> I appreciate the knowledge and history you guys have here, like I said above I'm quite new to Doxa.


Yeah as far as I know the T designates Tritium, however the 300 no-T also used tritium based lume afaik.


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## Michael Day (Feb 19, 2016)

Great looking watch but let's face it, that price is rediculous for what you're getting. Particularly when you start to look at what else you could get with the same money. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

So a couple of things for the newbies - if you are serious about Doxa then you need to buy the books 
:-

The new Doxa is not new ownership. The Jenny family owned the Doxa brand during the Marei era. It was Rick who resurrected it and ran it. The Jenny family produced the watch cases, bracelets etc from the 750T onwards using their Walca company.

They initially weren't interested in the brand but once it became profitable...well, you can probably guess the rest.

Many of the decisions during the Marei era were made by the Jenny family. As Rick didn't own the brand he had to run with those decisions.

How many times do you think many of us talked to Rick and said "hey, make a standard 300T and 750T size for people and then do the limited editions. Ever wonder why that didn't happen?

Ah bollox, I was going to continue but maybe sometime I'll do a sticky post for the forum just to piss people off.

I'll finish with this. I still love Doxa the brand. The photo shows what is left of my collection. However, I detest the Jenny family and the people who are now running Doxa. Their biggest sin was not what they did but the way they did it. Instead of having a press release which praised Rick for all his hard work etc etc and what he did to revive the brand etc etc. They totally ignored his contribution and actually made it look like he had mismanaged it and they were taking back control. Absolutely unforgivable. There is more but I'll stop.











FishTime said:


> Similar to Raym0016, I'm new to Doxa (and may have been the lucky recipient last week of the last 300T Professional before they went temporarily out of stock, but that's a separate story). I'm stuck at home and spending a lot more time on my hobbies, watches being one of them. I've really enjoyed reading up on the history of Doxa, the brand's resurgence in the early 2000s, learning about all the models and reading opinions about the ownership changes.
> 
> What has honestly been fascinating is to see all the discussion that the introduction of this one carbon model has initiated. On the BRAND overall. We've got the whole spectrum here...some of us cheering a totally new model/direction for the brand, others absolutely trashing the brand (over the introduction of one new model!?), some debating the direction being taken by the new ownership, and others of us just looking on with mild interest.
> 
> ...


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok. Now I understand that this IS personal for some. I get that. Maybe more the reason to try to capture a new market. They may understand they messed up the transition. Now they have to finish implementing their transformation before they can start winning some back. It seems to me like typical consultant driven transformation. It’s not easy and most companies fail at achieving their goals but it’s gotta be done if you want to grow.


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## MONVMENTVM (Sep 17, 2009)

Raym0016 said:


> Ok. Now I understand that this IS personal for some. I get that. Maybe more the reason to try to capture a new market. They may understand they messed up the transition. Now they have to finish implementing their transformation before they can start winning some back. It seems to me like typical consultant driven transformation. It's not easy and most companies fail at achieving their goals but it's gotta be done if you want to grow.


For me it's not personal. But I want to ask you again: How are they trying to grow? How are they capturing a new market?

By releasing 13pc limited $70k gold 200 T.Graph - technically a model people have been waiting years for?
Then finally releasing the steel T.Graph but as 300pc limited $5k version, when you can get a Speedmaster for less? 
A 300pc limited $5k forged carbon Sub 300, when one of their closest competitors sells for 1/4 and you could get a carbon Breitling diver for 40% of the price?

They are either trying to portray something they are far away from or it's pure greed and they don't give a damn. Nobody cares about them other than dive watch enthusiasts and those people won't buy massively overpriced stuff unless they are die-hards or have too much money at hand and don't care. Whatever it is, they are _not_ doing themselves a favor.


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## drumcairn (May 8, 2019)

It only good business practise to broaden appeal and increase sales - and IMO the 200 was a good move for that. There is no way of course that second hand prices will hold up for the 200s, or for that matter for the new 300s, a product of increasing new sales and increased availability, and time will tell how that increased availabiiity will affect the earlier era watches' value ... 

While the 200 gives them a dive watch for those who prefer a more standard case and lower price, the 300 will remain a fairly niche market I'd say though there is no doubt sales can be increased considerably but there are limits - keeping the relatively (especially in Europe) high prices for the 300 while reducing the movement to standard grade 2824, their terrible customer service …. well, there comes a point when people know they are being taken advantage of and , at their price point, the company is not delivering the standard expected. As mentioned above ^ some of the 'models' launched I'd count as marketing/promotional attempts to boost the profile of their watches and attempt to associate them as premium products (and so customers expect a high price). 

I bought a new 300T Sharkhunter a few months ago (it has the wobbly bezel which I decided to live with after my and my AD's queries to Doxa were simply ignored) only because I got a 20% Boxing Day discount which brought the price in the UK to a better value - I'd like a Divingstar but won't buy another new one due to the whole down grading movement, same high price and poor customer service. At the level of sales and price Doxa are aiming for that's just not on - they have a product that stands out but there are limits.

Oh, and I very much dislike that carbon case!


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

MONVMENTVM said:


> The Sub 300 50th anniversary models as well as this this new carbon one were based on the vintage original Sub 300. The 300T with the flat and larger diameter crystal etc. is based on the vintage Sub 300T that came after the 300 no-T. They look different because they are based on different watches. Now before this "new" 300T there was the 1200T (among many other models which most were in the ~2k max range towards their end) which was essentially almost the same watch as the new 300T and also based on the vintage 300T.
> 
> The 1200T came indeed in runs of 1200 pieces where they got improved here and there from one iteration to the other and they were basically available continuously throughout their run from 2010 until the new 300Ts came out not long ago.
> 
> ...


This is very true, I sold a few watches and was waiting on a t graph release , but I thought it was priced too high so brought a omega Speedmaster instead 
Makes you wonder how much Jenny would charge if they where as popular as Rolex or omega


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

I don't get that case finish, nor the price.

I DO get that rubber, divers folding push-button strap - if that were available for my 1200T, I'd buy it in a heart beat - it's exactly the strap I've been looking for.


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## MONVMENTVM (Sep 17, 2009)

riff raff said:


> I don't get that case finish, nor the price.
> 
> I DO get that rubber, divers folding push-button strap - if that were available for my 1200T, I'd buy it in a heart beat - it's exactly the strap I've been looking for.


The strap looks as nice as the Sinn deployment rubber, which is pretty cool.


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## Speedamatuer (Jul 21, 2016)

riff raff said:


> I don't get that case finish, nor the price.
> 
> I DO get that rubber, divers folding push-button strap - if that were available for my 1200T, I'd buy it in a heart beat - it's exactly the strap I've been looking for.


It is available, it's just ridiculously expensive: https://doxawatches.com/products/rubber-strap-black-1?_pos=5&_sid=eb788ace5&_ss=r


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## johnk317 (Sep 8, 2006)

Beautiful but too expensive!


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> So a couple of things for the newbies - if you are serious about Doxa then you need to buy the books
> :-
> 
> The new Doxa is not new ownership. The Jenny family owned the Doxa brand during the Marei era. It was Rick who resurrected it and ran it. The Jenny family produced the watch cases, bracelets etc from the 750T onwards using their Walca company.
> ...


Dude,

You're collection is missing a few variations ;-)


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Great points and I have to agree with you.... I'll say it again. The New Doxa has delusions of grandeur. It is now being run by "money men" and people who do not have either the understanding of the brand and history or the passion for it. And some of the crap they are coming out with...

Calling the Jenny fish logo the Doxa logo..... It isn't and never was. Even my dog can see the stylized J running from the dorsal fin to the eye representing the J in Jenny.

Then you have this crap....

_Jan Edöcs, CEO of DOXA Watches, said: "DOXA has been experiencing an unprecedented revival over the past 12 months. The brand's unique history, the quality of our watches and our ability today to innovate and project ourselves into the future while staying true to our DNA are the key ingredients of a strategy that remains faithful to the principle established in 1889 by Georges Ducommun: to design and produce watches of high technical quality that are reliable and affordable. We are very proud of our heritage, and particularly happy to experience a success today - the fruit of passionate work - that exceeds all our expectations. In presenting the SUB 300 Carbon SUB Aqua Lung US Divers, I am delighted to announce today that we have formalized our partnership with Aqua Lung, with whom we share a long history and the same values: innovation, quality and customer service._

Go search on how the Milos brand fared after the same rhetoric. Inspired mediocracy.

The Aqua Lung partnership was reestablished during the Marei era and should actually be credited to Ty Alley.

The new plastic SUB..OK I'll give credit where credit is due, the new resin SUB with some random fibers of carbon in it, could have been released many years ago under the Marei era and been done right. A true carbon SUB but it was crushed for reasons...well that's another story.



drumcairn said:


> It only good business practise to broaden appeal and increase sales - and IMO the 200 was a good move for that. There is no way of course that second hand prices will hold up for the 200s, or for that matter for the new 300s, a product of increasing new sales and increased availability, and time will tell how that increased availabiiity will affect the earlier era watches' value ...
> 
> While the 200 gives them a dive watch for those who prefer a more standard case and lower price, the 300 will remain a fairly niche market I'd say though there is no doubt sales can be increased considerably but there are limits - keeping the relatively (especially in Europe) high prices for the 300 while reducing the movement to standard grade 2824, their terrible customer service &#8230;. well, there comes a point when people know they are being taken advantage of and , at their price point, the company is not delivering the standard expected. As mentioned above ^ some of the 'models' launched I'd count as marketing/promotional attempts to boost the profile of their watches and attempt to associate them as premium products (and so customers expect a high price).
> 
> ...


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## waymond wamano (Apr 21, 2020)

I don't know how i feel about the watch but it may grow on me the closer the release date gets.


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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

riff raff said:


> I don't get that case finish, nor the price.
> 
> I DO get that rubber, divers folding push-button strap - if that were available for my 1200T, I'd buy it in a heart beat - it's exactly the strap I've been looking for.


the black case/ black rubber does look good but the bezel just seems to disappear,,,, and so much painted information, I can help but wonder if a flat sapphire would have reduced the reflective value of the minute markers and tightened things up on what is a very modern diver ( as far as materials go ),
its as though they took their most popular watch ( based on resale / demand ) and said lets use that design to build a modern materials watch...... strange that the 300 was an anniversary nod to vintage doxa and the least modern design of any recent releases.

what would really give me pause at the price point is the durability of the clasp.
Im guessing its going to get massively scratched up and the thing I hate about DLC/ PVD coatings is then they scratch through to base material.


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

Speedamatuer said:


> It is available, it's just ridiculously expensive: https://doxawatches.com/products/rubber-strap-black-1?_pos=5&_sid=eb788ace5&_ss=r


$440 - yikes, that's beyond expensive. I was looking at a Longines rubber divers strap/clasp, and balked a little at $185....
Doxa lists their BOR bracelet at $290. That makes zero sense.


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## dboulders (Oct 10, 2011)

Thats one of the most beautiful watches I've ever seen. Hopefully one pops up on the secondary market for a reasonable price and I can snag it.


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## SubMoose (May 15, 2016)

So I just got a shipment notification for Doxa Watches. Yeah I get it, expensive, mostly plastic, etc. Looked cool and I pulled the trigger. 
However, when I ordered the watch it said “pre-order” shipping in August.
Not sure what’s up but FedEx says it’ll be here Monday and it’s origin is NY.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

SubMoose said:


> So I just got a shipment notification for Doxa Watches. Yeah I get it, expensive, mostly plastic, etc. Looked cool and I pulled the trigger.
> However, when I ordered the watch it said "pre-order" shipping in August.
> Not sure what's up but FedEx says it'll be here Monday and it's origin is NY.


Post photos and first impressions when you get it!! And if you decide to sell at a huge loss, please think of me ;-).


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

riff raff said:


> $440 - yikes, that's beyond expensive. I was looking at a Longines rubber divers strap/clasp, and balked a little at $185....
> Doxa lists their BOR bracelet at $290. That makes zero sense.


Has anyone been able to try or confirm fit or these with a 300 BL 50th anniversary?


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## NardinNut (Sep 22, 2008)

SubMoose said:


> So I just got a shipment notification for Doxa Watches. Yeah I get it, expensive, mostly plastic, etc. Looked cool and I pulled the trigger.
> However, when I ordered the watch it said "pre-order" shipping in August.
> Not sure what's up but FedEx says it'll be here Monday and it's origin is NY.


I received a shipping notification too. Says Monday delivery. I had also been emailing with Jamie at Doxa earlier this week and he/she (?) stated in the email an August release date


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

I just ordered a regular 300t a week ago. The origin was NY but it actually shipped from Boca Raton. I wonder what is happening?? Please post here when you find out. Perhaps there is a glitch? Or they had some of these ready to go?


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## FishTime (Jun 21, 2018)

Raym0016 said:


> I just ordered a regular 300t a week ago. The origin was NY but it actually shipped from Boca Raton. I wonder what is happening?? Please post here when you find out. Perhaps there is a glitch? Or they had some of these ready to go?


This is interesting - my 300T Professional shipped early last week out of Jamaica, NY.


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## FishTime (Jun 21, 2018)

SubMoose said:


> So I just got a shipment notification for Doxa Watches. Yeah I get it, expensive, mostly plastic, etc. Looked cool and I pulled the trigger.
> However, when I ordered the watch it said "pre-order" shipping in August.
> Not sure what's up but FedEx says it'll be here Monday and it's origin is NY.


Was it Jamaica, NY?


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## NardinNut (Sep 22, 2008)

A emailed Jamie at Doxa to ask about the shipping notification and here is response:
“Sorry for the confusion. It is an automatic email generated when your order is processed. It will ship in August.”

Seems bizarre that I’d get a tracking number


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## SubMoose (May 15, 2016)

origin says Lawrence, NY but looks like it was a mistake. Fedex only says that a shipping label has been created.


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## praveenkn (Sep 20, 2018)

NardinNut said:


> A emailed Jamie at Doxa to ask about the shipping notification and here is response:
> "Sorry for the confusion. It is an automatic email generated when your order is processed. It will ship in August."
> 
> Seems bizarre that I'd get a tracking number


Thanks for the info. That's what I thought. Got the same bizarre email from FedEx.


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## PordoSelene (Feb 22, 2018)

While being a Doxa fun since long, but has been turned down for me since, FedEx disappeared my pre-ordered LE POSEIDON, within the city delivery at LA 
With no replacement option left over.
Well, this time again Doxa bug hit me and I coudnt resist to that beauty! Found my self pulling the trigger for the '' Forged Carbon '' for another challenge!
I also received the same message from FedEx Immediately after confirmation from Doxa. I assume it is automated process to link orders and shipment numbers
Another waiting phase is on till August. Hopefully this time with success!

Alp

GMT 750T PRO
NUMA TQ No.14
DIVINGSTAR 1000T
JENNY CARIBBEAN


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## PordoSelene (Feb 22, 2018)

While being a Doxa fun since long, which has been turned down since, FedEx disappeared my pre-ordered LE POSEIDON, within the city delivery at LA 
With no replacement option granted from returns by Doxa.
Well, this time again Doxa bug hit me and I coudn't resist to that beauty! Found my self pulling the trigger for the '' Forged Carbon '' for another challenge!
I also received the same message from FedEx Immediately after confirmation from Doxa. 
I assume it is automated process to link orders and shipment numbers
Another pre-order waiting phase is on till August. Hopefully this time with success!

Alp

GMT 750T PRO
NUMA TQ No.14
DIVINGSTAR 1000T
JENNY CARIBBEAN


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## 10Swiss10 (Apr 17, 2019)

Whole lot of people “new” to the brand lately. Not surprising given its latest marketing push. 

I’m not exactly old to the brand myself but I feel like your opinion on it depends on how
You came to it. 

I came by way of diving and learning about the brand from a divers stand point and the history of the watch and sport itself. 

A lot of new people come by way of YouTube and blogs so they’re gonna want it just because they’re recently been told it’s cool. 

A shift “up market” for sure. Soon the new comers will toll the virtues of aquadive as well. 

I guess my advice to the newcomers is: yes you’re here but just because you’re here now does not mean your voice matters more or your opinions are facts based on your feelings. 

A lot of people have a lot of history with the brand and there’s value in that. Sit back and listen. I did and I found just as much value in listening to the old guard share stories as I did doing my own research. The old guard is part of the brand history as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

10Swiss10 said:


> Whole lot of people "new" to the brand lately. Not surprising given its latest marketing push.
> 
> I'm not exactly old to the brand myself but I feel like your opinion on it depends on how
> You came to it.
> ...


I am a newcomer. I completely agree, the old guard is part of the brand history, their stories, experiences and opinions are an extremely important part of the discourse. At the same time, its the newcomers that are part of keeping the brand going. Both opinions matter.

Edited to add: let's say that I, as a newcomer, did some additional research on Aquadive, and begin to get intrigued by its rich history just like I did with Doxa. Say I then buy one and jump on a forum somewhere and extoll its virtues, as you put it. Why is that a problem? I don't understand the attitude that new people continuing to support a brand FOR WHATEVER REASON is a problem.


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

FWIW, I've got to tell you, I've owned two carbon watches. One LUM-TEC and one Ball, and I've been happy with both.


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## 10Swiss10 (Apr 17, 2019)

Raym0016 said:


> I am a newcomer. I completely agree, the old guard is part of the brand history, their stories, experiences and opinions are an extremely important part of the discourse. At the same time, its the newcomers that are part of keeping the brand going. Both opinions matter.
> 
> Edited to add: let's say that I, as a newcomer, did some additional research on Aquadive, and begin to get intrigued by its rich history just like I did with Doxa. Say I then buy one and jump on a forum somewhere and extoll its virtues, as you put it. Why is that a problem? I don't understand the attitude that new people continuing to support a brand FOR WHATEVER REASON is a problem.


The boiled down reason is that Doxa has long held as a true divers watch. Meaning most of the time if you saw one in the wild the wearer had some connection to the sport. I mean why else would you wear one? They're a tool watch through and through and don't really translate well beyond casual wear. I don't try to pretend like my shark hunter is a sub or seamaster. It just does not fit that well into every day life as seamless as those and other divers do.

Now they're moving into this pop culture phase, in the states anyways, and suddenly becoming a watch everyone has to have. Just like blundstones, those funny duck boots from LL bean, uggs, etc. And in that mix brands lose their identity.

You get people complaining about bezels. People upset the shine on the bezel got scratched. People who do nothing beyond desk diving suddenly here to toll the virtues of the orange dial they prolly read about but will never understand truly how colors change at depth.

Also you have meme accounts not saying how you should only get the orange and nothing else while many of us here appreciate all the colors and their reasons for existence.

So people are gonna be a little rubbed the wrong way when suddenly their niche watch becomes something every blogger, YouTube, and Instagram account suddenly has to have.

Good for Doxa as capitalist. Tough for enthusiasts to swallow.

You can like, say, so whatever you want. Just do us all a favor and get your Doxa wet. Get some scratches on the bezel. Knock it around and look into at the very least snorkeling with it. Pay homage to the brand history. Respect the salty old guys who have worn em for years. Respect Rick. And enjoy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HAR (Feb 25, 2015)

Amazing watch!


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## drumcairn (May 8, 2019)

10Swiss10 said:


> The boiled down reason is that Doxa has long held as a true divers watch. Meaning most of the time if you saw one in the wild the wearer had some connection to the sport. I mean why else would you wear one? They're a tool watch through and through and don't really translate well beyond casual wear. I don't try to pretend like my shark hunter is a sub or seamaster. It just does not fit that well into every day life as seamless as those and other divers do.
> 
> Now they're moving into this pop culture phase, in the states anyways, and suddenly becoming a watch everyone has to have. Just like blundstones, those funny duck boots from LL bean, uggs, etc. And in that mix brands lose their identity.
> 
> ...


Think you're maybe getting a bit carried away here - its a watch not some sort of private limited members club. Its not got a clever innovative inhouse movement, its not got a clever unique design to make the case waterproof - Doxa history is all well documentated and just a quick internet search away. It's not that complicated. You may as well complain about people having more than one Doxa - by your reckoning its a tool watch to be used so why would you need more than one? It's a personal purchase decision to have what you like - nobody else will notice or care.

Get over it - is any dive watch really needed nowadays with the advent of dive computers - people wear them because they like them. Even sport diving or swimming - you don't NEED to wear a watch - you choose to. Should only baseball players wear baseball hats - should only polo players wear polo shirts? Its a watch - how many 'old' stories do you need? I might listen to old stories about diving but not about their watch! Its biggest selling point nowadays - as with most dive watches if we are honest - is its 'look.' Nobody NEEDS a dive watch as a tool nowadays. No doubt it's 'look' and 'image' (history??) were large factors in your purchase decision as well - its not a necessity for diving so why else would you buy?

You know - I was one of the first involved in snowboarding in the UK and we had the gear etc and part of being just a handful of folk, when everyone else was skiing, was fun - now of course almost a majority on the hill are boarding - does it put my nose out of joint ?? Nope - is my opinion more important than theirs ..Nope. You pay your money and you can use (or not) your stuff and voice your opinion as you please - and people will agree and disagree with you as they please. I am one of those who complained about the wobbly bezels and the replies from those with older watches showed that Doxa had changed their attachment method - had I no right to post about something because it was my first Doxa? Or post about the poor customer service they received?

Why should others buying Doxas for whatever reason be 'hard for you to swallow'? What's it got to do with you? Is this post reflective of the views of longstanding Doxa owners? I didn't realise there was some sort of self imposed Doxa customer seniority!


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## Diogenes (Dec 29, 2015)

Doc, Do I see the original Clive Cussler 300 with the aftermarket bracelet in your DOXA collection photo?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Diogenes said:


> Doc, Do I see the original Clive Cussler 300 with the aftermarket bracelet in your DOXA collection photo?


I'd like it to be  No its my beater 300T. It was a Searambler which I got that was pretty much trashed. It has leaked. the movement was corroded. the dial completely shagged. but there was no corrosion on the inside. Redressed the case, new movement, new crystal, had the dial redone. Relumed and kept the red hands as I liked them. Polished and repainted the bezel. Couldn't get an original bracelet (but never liked how flimsy they were anyway) so I modified a Sector bracelet to fit.

It's my most worn Doxa. Lots of new wabi on it. Dropped it once and movement caused a lump of dial paint to come off at the 1:30 mark. Some orange and black model paint and fine brush and good to go 

Probably the last Doxa I'll sell.


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## Diogenes (Dec 29, 2015)

Very good! 
I knew that bracelet was one like Dr. Cussler wore on his old 300!


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

10Swiss10 said:


> The boiled down reason is that Doxa has long held as a true divers watch. Meaning most of the time if you saw one in the wild the wearer had some connection to the sport. I mean why else would you wear one? They're a tool watch through and through and don't really translate well beyond casual wear. I don't try to pretend like my shark hunter is a sub or seamaster. It just does not fit that well into every day life as seamless as those and other divers do.
> 
> Now they're moving into this pop culture phase, in the states anyways, and suddenly becoming a watch everyone has to have. Just like blundstones, those funny duck boots from LL bean, uggs, etc. And in that mix brands lose their identity.
> 
> ...


Great post, and sums up quite a lot of my own feelings as a one-time Doxaholic. Still love to dive with mine and appreciate their toolish charm but in terms of new acquisitions I've moved on. Especially at the 5k price point.


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## PolishX (Nov 12, 2007)

I think they have priced themselves into a range they can't compete at honestly. The killing of the bread and butter 1200 is annoying as much as killed hte 750 GMT series. Now I have to go find a Sub 1200 on the pre owned market because Im not paying the asking price for a 1500 or this thing


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

Didn’t the 300t (the one available now) replace the 1200t? I think the only main difference is the lack of hev and a better clasp.


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

PolishX said:


> I think they have priced themselves into a range they can't compete at honestly. The killing of the bread and butter 1200 is annoying as much as killed hte 750 GMT series. Now I have to go find a Sub 1200 on the pre owned market because Im not paying the asking price for a 1500 or this thing


Not so sure about the "range they can't compete". Sure there is a lot of competition in the $2k range. A lot of high quality pieces from the better micro brands in this range. There are also brands like Oris with sw200s and good build quality. From what I see, Doxa can compete on the quality front with the others in this range plus they have a historically legitimate story that was never really capitalized on like other makers have.

Now if your talking about the $4800 the carbon is selling for, I may agree with you there. I am a Doxa owner at ~$2k but not ~$5k.


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## Diogenes (Dec 29, 2015)

Agreed! 
I am not a collector. I own one DOXA, a 1500 Professional that my wife bought me for Christmas, in 2015. 
I am also a diver. 
I have worn this watch on every dive in these five years. 
DOXA has a wonderful legacy. 
The Cousteau and Cussler ties bind me, as a Scuba Diver. 
The new leadership post Rick, and the product, seem to have taken for granted the rich history of this brand! 
No longer a sponsor of this forum? 

I miss the comments made from Subcrawler and CMSBO! 
This new carbon fiber piece may attract attention from those collectors that are looking for something new and exciting. 
This old fogey will look each morning at his orange faced watch, and wish new Doxa’s were shipped in an aluminum tube, not a cheap box!


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## PolishX (Nov 12, 2007)

Yes I was referring to the $4800 price point.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Raym0016 said:


> ....they have a historically legitimate story that was never really capitalized on like other makers have......


Do you want to explain that, because I find it offensive given what Rick, myself and a number of others have tried to do over the last 20 years. Resurrection of the brand, reconnection with the likes of Cousteau, Cussler and US Divers on a relatively shoestring budget and all under the ownership of a company (Jenny) who didn't give a sh1t about the brand.

Your comment will piss off a bunch of people.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Do you want to explain that, because I find it offensive given what Rick, myself and a number of others have tried to do over the last 20 years. Resurrection of the brand, reconnection with the likes of Cousteau, Cussler and US Divers on a relatively shoestring budget and all under the ownership of a company (Jenny) who didn't give a sh1t about the brand.
> 
> Your comment will piss off a bunch of people.


Yup I agree. Rick worked his magic to work in as much historical stuff from vintage pieces into the modern ones. Every single sub that has been released over the last 20 years has that history ingrained in every piece, and to gloss over the fact that it somehow didn't happen is sheer ignorance.


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## PolishX (Nov 12, 2007)

CityMorgue said:


> Yup I agree. Rick worked his magic to work in as much historical stuff from vintage pieces into the modern ones. Every single sub that has been released over the last 20 years has that history ingrained in every piece, and to gloss over the fact that it somehow didn't happen is sheer ignorance.


I'm agrivated that I didnt get a 1200 when I could easily with the good tube not the cheap box.


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## Paul Ramon (Nov 8, 2015)

I’ve noticed a number of “older” frequent familiar faces here on the Doxa forum, myself included, have been posting less frequently or not at all these past half dozen months or so. I won’t speak for others but in my case I guess that’s a statement in itself about my enthusiasm about present day Doxa offerings. Not knocking anyone. Whatever floats your boat, variety is the spice of life and all that stuff. I’m perfectly content with my cherished dive pieces that drew me to Doxa initially. Carry on.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

Paul Ramon said:


> I've noticed a number of "older" frequent familiar faces here on the Doxa forum, myself included, have been posting less frequently or not at all these past half dozen months or so. I won't speak for others but in my case I guess that's a statement in itself about my enthusiasm about present day Doxa offerings. Not knocking anyone. Whatever floats your boat, variety is the spice of life and all that stuff. I'm perfectly content with my cherished dive pieces that drew me to Doxa initially. Carry on.


I can't speak for everyone, but it feels to me, that those of us who have been around long enough, are upset because we all invested our money, time, belief, in the brand of DOXA. We supported Rick and everything he was doing to resurrect a brand from the dead, and through interaction with us here on the forums helped foster a deep community.

Obviously now that DOXA is no longer a sponsor, and the latest offerings and the apparent disrespect shown as if the last 20 years never happened is a slap in the face. What is there to really talk about anymore? Clearly DOXA doesn't seem to care about what made it popular again, so why bother reciprocating it?


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## FishTime (Jun 21, 2018)

Jeez I just came back to this thread. I'm one of the new guys here but I'll be honest with you I'm really surprised at the degree of hate directed at Doxa here - all based on Rick Marei no longer being with the company and Doxa no longer being a forum sponsor? Really?

I totally understand these events causing some waves of disappointment but how about we give Doxa a chance here? You guys really going to sell all your Doxas and walk away? Screw Doxa I'm out? Just seems a bit extreme to me. Are there other watch companies out there with which you've agreed with 100% of their business decisions?

I will be the first to admit I don't have a 1/100th of the history and knowledge a lot of you guys have, and don't agree with (or even have the context around) all the business decisions that Doxa have made, but I still like a lot of what I'm seeing...and my new 300T.

By the way, I think the "not capitalizing on historical significance" comments were directed at the *PRE*-Rick Marei era when the brand was essentially dead. From what I understand, Rick was the one that finally was able to do it successfully.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

The hate isn't directed at the Doxa brand. I can't speak for everyone but I still love my Doxa SUBs and admire the brand history. The venom, again, in my case, is at the new Doxa management / owners. Not only did they not have the decency to recognize what Rick had done to reestablish the brand but (one that I know of) new customer reps is openly criticizing the people and achievements of the Marei era.

And as for this... I think the "not capitalizing on historical significance" comments were directed at the *PRE*-Rick Marei era when the brand was essentially dead.

I don't think so. Hmmmm, wait a minute...that would be when the Jenny family bought the brand......

So I guess nothing has changed.



FishTime said:


> Jeez I just came back to this thread. I'm one of the new guys here but I'll be honest with you I'm really surprised at the degree of hate directed at Doxa here - all based on Rick Marei no longer being with the company and Doxa no longer being a forum sponsor? Really?
> 
> I totally understand these events causing some waves of disappointment but how about we give Doxa a chance here? You guys really going to sell all your Doxas and walk away? Screw Doxa I'm out? Just seems a bit extreme to me. Are there other watch companies out there with which you've agreed with 100% of their business decisions?
> 
> ...


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

PolishX said:


> I'm agrivated that I didnt get a 1200 when I could easily with the good tube not the cheap box.


It's a nice detail but in truth, it just gets put away. If packaging is your jam, a Speedmaster cant be beat..


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

nitron135 said:


> It's a nice detail but in truth, it just gets put away. If packaging is your jam, a Speedmaster cant be beat..


Have to agree with this. The modern Speedmaster packaging is awesome. It elevates buying the watch to an experience, not just a purchase.


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Do you want to explain that, because I find it offensive given what Rick, myself and a number of others have tried to do over the last 20 years. Resurrection of the brand, reconnection with the likes of Cousteau, Cussler and US Divers on a relatively shoestring budget and all under the ownership of a company (Jenny) who didn't give a sh1t about the brand.
> 
> Your comment will piss off a bunch of people.


Ok, you aren't understanding me as I am meaning for you to. I mean that it seems as if Doxa is trying to take the legitimate history the brand has, along with the reputation for quality and value the brand has built over the last 20 years and make a little money. They are expanding and moving upmarket a little. They are finally capitalizing on the history, and moving more mainstream with the 200 being the hook. How they are going about this transition is what the issue is here, and rightfully so from your perspective (I happen to agree). They seem to be alienating the very people that have given the brand the legitimacy they are trying to capitalize on...

That said, someone who comes in excited about the brand, looking to do research on the current models, their quality, and such may be turned away by some of the comments. It's not even specific comments as much as it's a mood or atmosphere to be honest. Many of us are on the forums (watch forums, specifically) to discuss the merits of the watches we are interested in. That interest may come because of other hobbies like diving or just because we like cool watches. Doxa makes really cool watches.


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

I was willing to give the new management a chance but a few things have disappointed me, 

First thing was the £80000 gold t graph ( did they sell one? )
2. The normal t graph release at £5000 ( £2000 too much)
3.The cheap looking generic 200 model ( I admit this is just my personal taste and I can’t expect to like every model but before this I did like every doxa )
4. The mass production of yellow doxa ( it always felt to me at least yellow doxa where a special rare bird )
5. The lack of aluminium tube ( the new box looks extremely cheap and offers little protection to watch during shipping, yes it’s only a box but if you are paying more than a omega Speedmaster for a watch like the t graph why should doxa go cheap on the packaging? The Speedmaster packaging makes it look special the t graph packaging makes it look like you brought from a gift shop
6. The carbon ( again the price pure greed again on Jenny)

What exactly new have Jenny done to capitalise on the doxa history? because as doc said they wasn’t bothered before Rick resurrected it 
Looks to me they are capitalising on the loving money spending doxa fans , unfortunately not me this time


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## PolishX (Nov 12, 2007)

nitron135 said:


> It's a nice detail but in truth, it just gets put away. If packaging is your jam, a Speedmaster cant be beat..


Think you missed my point, they are cheapening the atmosphere and product that was Doxa. Eliminating the 1200 , making cheaper presentation, and releasing things like the over priced carbon fiber. Almost forgot the subtle change in the bracelet from straight on the 1200 to the curved links on the 300.


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

PolishX said:


> Think you missed my point, they are cheapening the atmosphere and product that was Doxa. Eliminating the 1200 , making cheaper presentation, and releasing things like the over priced carbon fiber. Almost forgot the subtle change in the bracelet from straight on the 1200 to the curved links on the 300.


I believe the 300 has a different clasp as well, right? Looking at prices they are selling the bracelets for (comparing the sub 200 bracelet with the 1200 clasp to the 300t with the new clasp), they put quite a premium on that racheting clasp. As a matter of fact I did too, the new bracelet was a selling point to me over a 1200.


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## MHe225 (Jan 24, 2010)

Apologies for straying from the original topic - chiming in on 2 side discussions



PolishX said:


> I'm agrivated that I didnt get a 1200 when I could easily with the good tube not the cheap box.


Timing is everything and every now and then, you're just in the right place at the right time. Back in 2010 I had started researching / reading up on Doxa and that was right in the midst of the SUB1200T DWL launch / sale period. Very uncharacteristically, I recognized and acted on this opportunity and landed # 11. That was a substantial acquisition for me, so I hesitated when shortly thereafter the 50 Turquoise Numa's were released - I waited too long and missed out. Same thing with the 600T-Graphs - I made up my mind, contacted Doxa, only to find out that the very last one had just been sold a few days prior.

I waited a long time to see the next T-Graph released; the name alone, 200T-Graph has me salivating, but the actual watch -and its hefty price-tag, not so much. But all is well that ends well, I assumed custody of the 600T-Graph Searambler from one of my longtime friends here



Flyingdoctor said:


> Have to agree with this. The modern Speedmaster packaging is awesome. It elevates buying the watch to an experience, not just a purchase.
> 
> 
> nitron135 said:
> ...


Silly me - I even looked in to purchasing just the packaging as there is no way that I will be trading my 7,422 days old 3570.50 Speedmaster Professional (my estate will have to decide on that one, the DWL, T-Graph and a few others). The cost was a little outrageous, so ......

Back to your scheduled programming


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Have to agree with this. The modern Speedmaster packaging is awesome. It elevates buying the watch to an experience, not just a purchase.


I felt like it was over the top.. and now it's taking precious space in my storage! Can't get rid of it and there isn't a good way to use it..


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

PolishX said:


> Think you missed my point, they are cheapening the atmosphere and product that was Doxa. Eliminating the 1200 , making cheaper presentation, and releasing things like the over priced carbon fiber. Almost forgot the subtle change in the bracelet from straight on the 1200 to the curved links on the 300.


I don't think that I did. How is releasing a $4700 carbon cheapening the atmosphere? It's more like a halo offering. As is the t.graph. I guess the gold versions were a marketing Hail Mary. 300 has a nicer bracelet and clasp, I'd prefer that over the 1200 version. The step down in movt grade is a bummer. Otherwise it's the 1200, with no hrv, more fishes (doc hates those with a passion but others are meh on them) and better availability.. The tube was a nice special detail, true. But it's somewhere in storage. Functionally, a ratcheting clasp or fitted rubber offering are probably more relevant for people..


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

For me the issue is possibly slightly less clear cut than I read here.
Whilst I love the Doxa SUB - and the 50th anniversary Professional model is possibly my favourite watch - let's not pretend that everything was perfect before the change in management.
The Customer Service in the 'Marei' era could certainly be very hit and miss - as could the selection and fit of components.
I remember flipping my first purchase almost new as the CS was so bad; fortunately Katrina then got me back into the brand with a great deal - but the date alignment on my Searambler was so poor that I eventually flipped it as it was almost unreadable.
Similarly buying a Doxa in the UK was not so easy and you got hit with the VAT and duty at delivery - which US buyers were fortunately spared.
There were also no AD's to see models in the metal prior to purchase which was a problem as the Doxa returns policy was painful - unlike other online brands such as Christopher Ward.
Today I've got an AD around 25 miles away!
The new 300T looks good to my eyes and offers a wider range of dial colours in an unlimited series - although it's a shame they didn't go with the ETA 2824 COSC calibre across the range.
I've only tried Doxa customer service once in the new era and it was excellent supplying a couple of spare links for an old SUB 1000 FOC so I really can't complain.
It may be that the brand is losing some of its quirks but for many that may not be such a bad thing!
The one thing I would like to see is an objective (unbiased) comparative review of the old SUB 1200T against a current SUB 300T.
I'm not taking sides here - just adding a bit of balance as I saw it.
Keep safe everyone 

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## FishTime (Jun 21, 2018)

adg31 said:


> The one thing I would like to see is an objective (unbiased) comparative review of the old SUB 1200T against a current SUB 300T.


Have a look here from a few weeks back:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f34/300t-vs-1200t-5165957.html


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## Dan01 (Oct 17, 2009)

As one of the Rick era doxa collectors (sold a few I regret for sure) I do like the new carbon 300, but for me it is way too expensive. Having owned a carbon watch (H2O) for 1200, I don’t get the cost. While I get the halo piece, it is just too much for a carbon watch imo. If it was in the same price range as the other 300 re issues I would like be more excited about it. 


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Dan01 said:


> As one of the Rick era doxa collectors (sold a few I regret for sure) I do like the new carbon 300, but for me it is way too expensive. Having owned a carbon watch (H2O) for 1200, I don't get the cost. While I get the halo piece, it is just too much for a carbon watch imo. If it was in the same price range as the other 300 re issues I would like be more excited about it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree , I had a tempest Carbon and while it is kind of cool to have a different material for a watch for me the appeal didn't last long as it had a very light and plasticity feel and look, 
I've never bonded with dlc , bronze or gold and carbon so personally I'd rather have a black lung 300 over this


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## siddhartha (Feb 15, 2006)

There have been a bunch of missteps in my opinion-with the c2002 release of the reissue 300t, I was excited. I bought one, traded it, and then bought another, which I still have. I love the watch, love the bracelet, love that it came in a tube, and was different. No, not a true Sub 300T reissue, but an amazing watch. Then, as time went on, there were more and more special editions, and the watch (to me) looked more and more mainstream. I thought going to a more-traditional bracelet on some models was a mistake. Bezel choices, IMHO, were a mistake, as the watch looked like a variation on every other dive watch out there. Then, with the vintage reissues, I got excited again, and bought 2. 
Now, my interests lie mostly in the Marei-era Doxas, which seemed to have something the current ones, for the most part, do not. So, it's second-hand, or none at all. The carbon one may appeal to some, but not to me.


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## ds760476 (Nov 7, 2011)

> I am a Doxa owner at ~$2k but not ~$5k.


I was a buyer many times over at $1k, I'm out at $2k.

There's no tube, now?

Still my favorite brand, but I'm not likely to buy a new one anytime soon. (Another mint 750 'rambler for $1100, on the other hand...). ?


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## Terry M. (Apr 15, 2007)

Well, I wish I hadn’t clicked on this thread. I was actually kicking around the idea of getting a DOXA again but not now. I had a 1500T a year or so back and loved it. The presentation tube was fantastic. Unfortunately I sold the watch for cheap and moved on. Regrets, I’ve had a few.


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

watch seems like a good candidate to be discounted 25% in a black Friday or sale like deal.

a sub <$4000 price seems like a more realistic reach, and that might be all it takes to sell many


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

I'm looking forward to releasing orange color too.
If it was orange color,i might have bought it right away.


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

A black lung reissue just sold for $6600 on ebay. I don’t understand why the price on this is so unbelievable.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Raym0016 said:


> A black lung reissue just sold for $6600 on ebay. I don't understand why the price on this is so unbelievable.


Another poster in a different thread mentioned that the buyer is a wealthy guy who just really wanted it. Doesn't really explain why there were other bidders that drove up the price to that amount though. The "new with stickers still on" aspect helped I'm sure, but it still seems like a massive overpay. Yes they rarely show up, but a few have sold the in last couple months for around 2700-3000, so I don't really get it.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

I was perusing the Doxa sub site and it reminded me that the 4000T has been on there for $3890 with the sapphire bezel. I don’t know if people complained about that one but seems not unprecedented sub pricing none the less.


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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Another poster in a different thread mentioned that the buyer is a wealthy guy who just really wanted it. Doesn't really explain why there were other bidders that drove up the price to that amount though. The "new with stickers still on" aspect helped I'm sure, but it still seems like a massive overpay. Yes they rarely show up, but a few have sold the in last couple months for around 2700-3000, so I don't really get it.


Yes he was wealthy and he probably did overpay but it was up to over $4400 I think before the moonshot. Thing is though, it doesn't matter anymore. That watch and potentially many other Doxas are worth more now because someone paid it. This limited Carbon edition will potentially have the same effect.


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## jwellemeyer (Jan 29, 2019)

Not sure if this has been covered, but would there be more enthusiasm over this model if it incorporated professional orange either in dial or on the bezel? These photos were taken from James Stacey's IG.

















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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

jwellemeyer said:


> Not sure if this has been covered, but would there be more enthusiasm over this model if it incorporated professional orange either in dial or on the bezel? These photos were taken from James Stacey's IG.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My personal take is that the version up for sale looks better. It has to be more of a departure or you'll get what feels like a half-step/mishmash in these ig posts.


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## jwellemeyer (Jan 29, 2019)

nitron135 said:


> My personal take is that the version up for sale looks better. It has to be more of a departure or you'll get what feels like a half-step/mishmash in these ig posts.


I think that's a valid point. I'm probably just drawn to the orange variations because I really like the Professional.

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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

Diogenes said:


> Agreed!
> I am not a collector. I own one DOXA, a 1500 Professional that my wife bought me for Christmas, in 2015.
> I am also a diver.
> I have worn this watch on every dive in these five years.
> ...


You really summed it up! Subcrawler's and CMSBO's comments are sorely missed. Cussler did such an incredible job keeping this brand alive in our psyches when it was dormant by ensuring Dirk would save the world with his professional! The Cousteau connection is what has always bound me. Watching those documentaries as a kid was magical. I'm working on artwork based on those same documentaries, and it's crazy, not only am I watching the footage with a keen aesthetic eye, I'm also focused on finding any Doxas that make camera appearances. Plenty do! Most of them are Sharkhunters, but I've seen at least one of every colour represented throughout the films.

Like yourself, I proudly wear a Doxa Sub while spending time under water. I'll blame the Cousteaus for making collecting Doxa Subs, particularly Sharkhunters, extra enjoyable!


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## jwellemeyer (Jan 29, 2019)

New review of DOXA carbon by Hodinkee...

Hands-On: The Doxa Sub 300 Carbon Aqua Lung US Divers Limited Edition https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/doxa-sub-300-carbon-aqua-lung-us-divers-limited-edition-hands-on

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## Raym0016 (Oct 31, 2012)

jwellemeyer said:


> New review of DOXA carbon by Hodinkee...
> 
> Hands-On: The Doxa Sub 300 Carbon Aqua Lung US Divers Limited Edition https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/doxa-sub-300-carbon-aqua-lung-us-divers-limited-edition-hands-on
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I read it. It was a good review I thought without being a fluff piece. It spoke to the emotion of owning watches (because we don't need them really) and openly spoke about some of the "detractors". I share the author's sentiment that the hope is that this is truly a halo type product, not an indication of where Doxa is going.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Good review indeed, echoing a lot of the saner voices have been saying in this thread. Seems like it stands up on the wrist too.

Interesting, he quotes 87g on the rubber with buckle, my 300 BL on the new tropic clocks in at 90g. Obviously carries it a bit differently with the head being 30g heavier but the overall weight is almost the same.

Maybe if they start showing up on the secondary market and there is some spare cash..


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## williemored (Jul 14, 2015)

Stunner minus the yellow fish!


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## SubMoose (May 15, 2016)

43 has arrived.


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## watchspeak (Jul 3, 2007)

I join you also with a new arrival.



SubMoose said:


> 43 has arrived.
> View attachment 15390369
> View attachment 15390370
> View attachment 15390372


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

First-hand impressions, people!!


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## praveenkn (Sep 20, 2018)

Here's 36


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## SubMoose (May 15, 2016)

First impression is that while the case is similar to 50th anniversary, the angles are different. It doesn’t sit quite as flat. The dial is impressive. The patterns and the yellow look better in person than I had hoped. The rubber strap included is made for the Hulk, no way I’m cutting that thing up and trying to size it for my arm....I’m not kidding I think I could get both wrists in the band with the clasp. I immediately put it on an Erika’s MN and it looks and feels great. The bezel has a satisfying click to it that is different but still the easiest to use in a dive watch. Overall, I’m quite satisfied.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Looks great.. bummer about the band being basically useless unless you want to slice it up (I wouldn’t either at this premium). Would be nice on ericas since it weights so little. Seems like you’d want something with a smooth/more modern look to complement it. Is the lume doxa standard or an improvement?


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## SubMoose (May 15, 2016)

nitron135 said:


> Looks great.. bummer about the band being basically useless unless you want to slice it up (I wouldn't either at this premium). Would be nice on ericas since it weights so little. Seems like you'd want something with a smooth/more modern look to complement it. Is the lume doxa standard or an improvement?



































Keep in mind this is worth what you paid me to do this. Dark corner of closet after 10 seconds in direct light.
Carbon on left in all.
1200 Caribbean
50th searambler
GMT 750 Caribbean
Mission 31

The silver dial of the searambler really does throw off more light, making it look brighter in the pic, but not so much with my eyes.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

SubMoose said:


> View attachment 15392911
> View attachment 15392912
> 
> View attachment 15392899
> ...


Thank you for doing this! You have quite a collection.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm not sure - but on another forum someones mentioned that if you try and add a Sub300Carbon to your cart - you can't do it - so they believe it's sold out.

I noticed that one of the UK Authorised Dealers has now removed it from their website, although another does still have it and you can add the 'Pre-Order' payment of £1,000 to your cart - indicates that you can still get it.



MONVMENTVM said:


> For me it's not personal. But I want to ask you again: How are they trying to grow? How are they capturing a new market?
> 
> By releasing 13pc limited $70k gold 200 T.Graph - technically a model people have been waiting years for?
> Then finally releasing the steel T.Graph but as 300pc limited $5k version, when you can get a Speedmaster for less?
> ...


Interesting question - my personal view on how they are going to grow is this:

Up until recently DOXA appeared focussed on the American market. They were relatively unknown, unless you were interested in the history of scuba diving and dive watches - or a Clive Cussler fan. They had no Authorised Dealers - and you had to purchase them - sight unseen - from the internet. So effectively they were no-more than a glorified micro brand.

Bringing one into the UK meant that there were additional Custom Handling Charges etc that could be incurred.

IMHO this was an absurd approach for one of the biggest historic names in dive watches - the USA may be the 2nd biggest market in Swiss watches CHF 2,409.1m - but the total market value is CHF 21,680.6m. Indeed the UK, France and Germany market is CHF 3,566.5. (2019 figures).

So, as I understand it - they way they are going to grow is to roll out Authorised Dealers (this has already happened in the UK) - they're opening a European centre in Germany - to service the European market; they have stated an aim to improve quality - and raise customer service.

In respect of the watches - they have introduced a much more affordable model - the Sub200, they have listened to their customer base (although maybe not some existing owners of the LE) - and introduced the non-limited edition vintage inspired Sub300 which appears to be selling quite well.

Really not sure of the comparison of the LE Sub200 T Graph against an unlimited Speedmaster - I was looking at the Speedmaster late last year/early this year and was completely underwhelmed by it. But regardless of my subjective opinion - the Speemaster has a Hesalite Crystal and 50m WR - compared with the DOXA which has Sapphire glass and 200m WR.

Also, I'm not sure which Breitling you're referring to - but my understanding is that they're not Forged Carbon fibre - but one of their own polymers? However, regardless of this, as indicated above - it seems that the 300 Sub300 Carbons have either sold out, or are near too selling out.

But to answer your questions they are trying too grow by increasing their network in other countries; by introducing a more affordable watch - as well as some higher level ones; and recognising that they need to up quality and improve the customer ownership experience.


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## YepJ (Oct 26, 2017)

I have the new orange carbon and so far it has exceeded my expectations. The movement is truly COSC (mine is running at +2 sec. a day) and the edges the case are sharp and crisp. The strap fit fine on my rather thin wrist (6.75") and the clasp is probably the weakest part of the package. The wetsuit extension works fine and it definitely does it's job but there's a bit of a "tinny" feeling to it. But that's a nitpick and I switched it out for a black Tropic strap anyway because I like the classic/vintage-y look of that combo. I love the bubble/domed crystal and the fact that it distorts the dial a bit is even more endearing to me - but that's just a subjective thing. I don't know what the life span is for forged carbon but I'm not a diver or much of a swimmer so this watch won't be seeing too much water anyway. I will take it when I go cycling, however, because it's light and very legible. I owned a 50th Anniversary SUB 300 Aqua-Lung and I regret selling it every time I see a picture of one. It was to help fund another watch but man, I miss it. The one thing I didn't like about it was how the small hour hand would essentially disappear into the Aqua-Lung logo in that 7 o'clock area. I felt that logo would've been so much better if it were an outline versus the fully filled in version.

I plan on picking up this Sharkhunter Carbon LE as soon as I can. The orange carbon gave me enough confidence to get it - it just look too cool. I'm hoping to pick up the Poseidon reissue as well but it's really too bad they didn't get that model COSC certified like the other Anniversary pieces. Anyway, I'm going to go broke but having fun with it, which is solely the point of this hobby anyway.


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