# Accuracy Shootout: ETA 2824-2 vs. Miyota 8N24 (Graf Zeppelin vs. Bulova)



## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi,

This is my first post. I love watches, particularly mechanical watches.

I recently bought 2 automatic watches: 1) the Graf Zeppelin Flatline with ETA 2824-2 standard grade movement with KIF shock protection; and 2) the Bulova BVA Mens Automatic Mens Skeleton Watch (96A107) with the Miyota 8N24 movement. Stock Photos attached.

Having read that the ETA movement is of higher quality and more accurate than the lower priced but "bullet proof" Miyota, I was curious to test the accuracy of both of these watches out of the box.

The Graf Zeppelin with the ETA 2824-2 came first. It cost me 470 USD. It is flawless under the loupe; I am very impressed with the look of it.

I wore it for a week and it consitently gained 13 seconds per 24 hour period (watch worn all the time except in the shower). While this movement is not erractic in any way, I was a bit surprised that it came out of the box running so consistently fast. It is as if Graf Zeppelin (Pointec) simply dumped it in to their watch case without regulating it (the standard caliber is adjusted in 2 positions to be within +-12 seconds per 24 hours).

However, the standard grade comes with Etachoc protection and when I queried Graf Zeppelin via e-mail they told me the watch I ordered contained KIF spring shock protection. Therefore, I assume they upgraded the 2824-2 to KIF from Etachoc. So, it seems strange that they did not also regulate the movement as well. :-s

The Bulova arrived next. It cost me 209 USD. It is also flawless under the loupe and appears very sold and well made. Bulova has stamped the Miyota 8N24 rotor with their mark so I also assumed that they regulated the movement. In the first 24 hours of being worn (except in the shower), it did not deviate from its setting to the US Naval Observatory Clock. I am completely astounded since I had read that, on average, this Japanese movement was set to gain 15 to 20 seconds per day. I guess I received a gem.

Back to the ETA. I bought a loup and micro screwdrivers to regulate the fine regulation screw on the ETA 2824-2 in the Graf Zeppelin after reading many fantastic accounts of how one can either reduce or increase speed by 6 seconds (per day) per hash mark on this movement. I opened the caseback and moved the screw almost two hash marks towards negative. I closed the case and then set the watch to the US Naval Observatory Clock. It has been 24 hours and I am happy to report that the Graf Zepplin has only gained 2 seconds in the past 24 hours - being worn the entire time.

Conclusion: Based on the samples I have bought, both movements are capable of fantastic accuracy. Bulova appears more attentive to ensuring that their watch is accurate without having to be re-regulated by the end-user when compared to Graf Zeppelin. The ETA is superior in the sense that it has a fine regulation adjustment screw (Miyota does not). Both of my new watches now meet:

*Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious Certification* which states, _inter alia_, that a chronometer with this rating can deviate by no more than + or - 2 seconds per 24 hour period when worn by me, Spock99. 

Which watch do I like better? The Graf Zeppelin Flatline, of course! After all, I paid more than 2 times the price for it than I paid for the Bulova BVA :-d (read: cognitive dissonance). 

Cheers!


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## Jingo Lingo (Oct 22, 2008)

Nice write up. Both look like nice watches for the money.


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## BR549 (Mar 30, 2009)

I think accuracy overtime is what really matters, I'd try and see how they both held up over 2 weeks.

Also are you saying the Miyota can not be regulated? IMO that kinda gives ETA the hand before you even test it. I had a Planet Ocean gain 16 seconds over 42 days. That was pretty impressive.


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

The Miyota can be regulated but the regulator arm must be moved directly as there is no fine adjustment screw like on the 2824-2. If moving the adjustment screw on the 2824-2 to one extreme is insufficient to make the adjustment, one may always center it, move the regulator arm directly to get the watch within + or - 15 per day and then use the fine regulator screw to bring it further into line. 

Good point about the accuracy over time. In a few weeks, I will post the results of both of these watches over longer time periods. 

I also have another watch on the way, an Android Skeleton with the same movement as the Bulova. It will be interesting to see how accurate that watch is compared to the Bulova. 

Your stats on the Planet Ocean are impressive to say the least. I assume this watch contains an ETA? Which model and caliber?

My first mechanical was a Swatch May Day back in 1996. It was inexpensive but contained an ETA movement with 23 jewels, specifically made by Swatch for Swatch. The watch was +3 seconds fast per 24 hours and I could bring it back into line by varying the position of the watch on the nightstand. The bracelet broke down at the case (cheap plastic) and I drawered it. I moved several times since then and can no longer find it. Wonder if it would still work or whether it has seized up.


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## BR549 (Mar 30, 2009)

The Planet Ocean has the 2500c caliber movement. It started out as a 2892, but has really been reworked. Free sprung balance , Co-axial escapement , Jewels added. Along w/ a ton of other things I can't think of off the top of my head at 6:30 am


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

Update:

In the past 8 days, 

The ETA movement has gained 20 seconds (+2.5 seconds per day)
The Miyota movement has lost 8 seconds (-1 second per day)

Each is consistent in this rate of gain and loss, so far.


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

I received an Android Skeleton Mystique with the Miyota 8N24 (same as in the above Bulova). 

I was not so lucky with this movement. It appears to be running slow by 13 seconds per 24 hours. Tonight it will go under the screwdriver for regulation. It may be a trying process since this movement, unlike the ETA 2824-2, has no fine regulation screw. Only the coarse regulation arm. I will attempt to move it .2 of a mm towards the center of the watch and see what happens.


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## chrisc9867 (Sep 30, 2009)

Well the Miyota movements are non-hacking...which is kinda weak... No matter how they may keep the time, they will never have that feeling of precision that you will feel with a hacking movement.


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

chrisc9867 said:


> Well the Miyota movements are non-hacking...which is kinda weak... No matter how they may keep the time, they will never have that feeling of precision that you will feel with a hacking movement.


Point taken but I just apply a little back pressure to arrest the movement when the Crown is pulled out (I call it "manual hacking"). Not sure whether this will hurt the mechanism but on an el-cheapo, who cares? If these movements are truly "bullet-proof", I don't imagine any harm will result. :-s


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

The ETA 2824-2 seems to be settling a bit. It is now averaging +1.6 seconds per day.  

At this rate, I will only have to set it about one time per month.


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

For the most part the auto movements from Japan do not get the respect they should - they are solid, durable (bulletproof) and perform as well as their Swiss counterparts - at a much lower $.


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## ignite-me (Dec 11, 2009)

ell the Miyota movements are non-hacking...which is kinda weak... No matter how they may keep the time, they will never have that feeling of precision that you will feel with a hacking movement.


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

I think you are right about durability of the Japanese stuff. 

I recently acquired my uncle's 1978, 7009-5008 Seiko. It has the 7009 movement in it, which was the predeceasor to the current 7S26 used in watches such as the Orange Monster. The 7009 uses all metal whereas the 7S26 has some plastic parts. 

The watch was worn daily for 25 years and survived a motorcycle crash. It is keeping time to +9 seconds per day after being cleaned, oiled and regulated. Not bad for something over 3 decades old. 

Update - The ETA in the Graf Zeppelin has slowed the last few days to synch with the atomic clock (no loss - no gain) from a consistent +1.5 per day, I hope it stays there but maybe there is something to this break-in theory as I have been running it for over 1 month now. I may rereg it at the 3 month mark if it has changed too much. But that is the beauty of the ETA 2824-2; It has the nice little fine adjustment screw, unlike the Miyota or Seiko movements with only the coarse regulator arm.


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## ignite-me (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks for sharing~ Nice watch indeed


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## NG111 (Oct 25, 2009)

What a great thread! I've been enjoying both of these movements for a while. I thought the 8N24 was a skeletonized movement only but I'm learning things here! Thanks!

My 8N24 keeps time as well as any Swiss ETA or Valjoux that I own. I also have a Seiko NE20 power reserve automatic in an Invicta Lupah that keeps exceptionally good time.

Thanks again for a very interesting thread. I learned quite a lot here.


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks for the responses.

Well it has been over 5 months of wearing both of these pieces. They are still both incredibly accurate. The Miyota is now showing a gain of +2 seconds per 24 hour period. The ETA has now slowed a bit and is showing -2 seconds per 24 hour period. 

I routinely wear both while cycling to work on rough roads so perhaps the vibrations from cycling have altered their settings ever so slightly. In any event, I still like the ETA better since it makes a cool fast ticking sound that I can hear through my pillow at night. The Miyota can only be heard when pressed directly to the ear and the rythm is noticably more relaxed. 

I also acquired an Orange Monster (it was 2 mins fast per day out of the box) so I sent it back under warranttee and Seiko Canada regulated it to about +9 seconds per 24 hour period. It seems like the Seiko budget movements consistently run fast. People are surprise when I tell them I paid less than 200 for it.


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

I found a way to "regulate" the ETA 2824-2. I leave it dial up on the nightstand to gain time at night. I last set it to the atomic clock on April 28th and today, 15 full days later, it is DEAD ON!

I have reached accuracy Nirvana! (Obviously, I have too much time on my hands).


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## vanhessche (May 25, 2010)

I'm pleased to read that you have more luck with your Miyota than i do.
A bit more than a week ago i bought a Festina 6744 with the Miyota 8N24 and it gained around 1 minute per day.
I think "breaking in" was not really an option when it gains so much, so last weekend i took it back to the shop.
It is now being sent to Festina so they can take a look at it.
I don't know if they will regulate it or just replace the movement or whatever.
I'm waiting for some (i hope good) news from the shop now.

But no worries, i have a 24 month warranty so it's all for free


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## Spock99 (Nov 15, 2009)

vanhessche said:


> I'm pleased to read that you have more luck with your Miyota than i do.
> A bit more than a week ago i bought a Festina 6744 with the Miyota 8N24 and it gained around 1 minute per day.
> I think "breaking in" was not really an option when it gains so much, so last weekend i took it back to the shop.
> It is now being sent to Festina so they can take a look at it.
> ...


I had the same experience with a Seiko Orange Monster (Seiko Movement 7S26). I sent it to Seiko and they regulated it (it now runs +8 seconds per day which is satisfactory).


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## Challenger (Oct 7, 2010)

One of the most accurate quartz movements I've owned in recent years was a Seiko SND255 Pilot-style Flightmaster watch. It uses the 7T92 caliber movement. I said "was" because a good friend talked me out of it on a trade. In the 5-months I had it, it gained less than 5 (Five) seconds during the entire period! That's less than 12 seconds a year. I've never encountered accuracy on that level with anything but an Atomic watch by Citizen or Casio. I should have kept it, but once you get past a couple dozen wrist watches...how many more do you need?


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## Chris Hughes (Dec 5, 2010)

The 7t92 is quartz, so it doesn't really compare to the autos in this thread.


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