# DOXA Army



## Doxa Watches Official (Feb 25, 2021)

The DOXA Army is getting back. Stay tuned.










As of now please find an original picture of several executions back in the beginning of the 70's.

Only the original deserves your trust.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Curious timing.. when is it available for order? Or do we stay tuned? 

Also if this is the original, why does the seconds hand look different? 

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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Strange timing - did you guys know about Syncrons release or did you get a little stressed when they sent it out this morning? 

I actually like the look though.

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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

They are available to order from Syncron, great price too! (someone started a thread here on that watch a few days ago)

" Only the original deserves your trust." - I'm sure that is a marketing phrase.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

MadsNilsson said:


> Strange timing - did you guys know about Syncrons release or did you get a little stressed when they sent it out this morning?
> 
> I actually like the look though.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They were not prepared at all for the release of the Synchron. The fact that they have no release date, no price, no pre-order information, and a not so great photoshop job, they are definitely stressing.


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

Are these two different companies?


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

This should be an interesting discussion. 🍿


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

riff raff said:


> Are these two different companies?


Yes. 
One says Synchron on the dial and one says Doxa.

Several differences in the watch design as well.

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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

I like it... But I like the synchron too, who gets my ££ depends on price and which is available first in the UK.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Anders_Flint said:


> I like it... But I like the synchron too, who gets my ££ depends on price and which is available first in the UK.


Remember that the Synchron price before VAT

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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

riff raff said:


> Are these two different companies?





riff raff said:


> Are these two different companies?


More importantly, on Synchron's site it stipulates: "THIS SITE IS NOT affiliated, associated, authorized, endorsed or any longer connected with Montres DOXA SA.":


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Interesting. Almost surely to be more expensive than the other Army offering, but honestly (and maybe it's the fan in me...) I'd pay more for a well-done Doxa version than the other one. Need to change that handset though for the final production...


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

I like the synchron one better, I’m betting it’s cheaper as well by a country mile if going by doxas recent releases


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Interesting. Almost surely to be more expensive than the other Army offering, but honestly (and maybe it's the fan in me...) I'd pay more for a well-done Doxa version than the other one. Need to change that handset though for the final production...


I would pay more for the Doxa considering they took the effort to keep the crown sunk into the case. The crown on the synchron looks huge!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Man, I honestly thought I would stop calling Doxa out for stupidity but I can't let this go. What the heck are you doing with that mock up travesty you posted? You saw the Synchron and just wet your pants and had a knee jerk reaction and put that out with "Only the original deserves your trust". For a start your mock up uses the wrong case and the wrong hands so it is nothing like the original. I'm surprised you didn't add a price tag of $4999.

People are laughing at you. I know that the Army was ready to be released years ago but you stopped it happening and now you have been caught with your pants down.

You panicked and it is so obvious. All you had to do was wait. Come up with a sensible release of a correct re-edition of the Army. I'm sure people would buy it because it's a Doxa. All you have done is show how disjointed you are. I've said it before, you need to sack the idiots in the marketing department and try and act like a cohesive company that knows what it is doing.


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> For a start your mock up uses the wrong case and the wrong hands so it is nothing like the original.


To be fair, photoshop is not that easy.


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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

I'm starting to think 🤔 Doxa is Not taking "us" the watch enthusiasts/Lovers very seriously.......


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Man, I honestly thought I would stop calling Doxa out for stupidity but I can't let this go. What the heck are you doing with that mock up travesty you posted? You saw the Synchron and just wet your pants and had a knee jerk reaction and put that out with "Only the original deserves your trust". For a start your mock up uses the wrong case and the wrong hands so it is nothing like the original. I'm surprised you didn't add a price tag of $4999.
> 
> People are laughing at you. I know that the Army was ready to be released years ago but you stopped it happening and now you have been caught with your pants down.
> 
> You panicked and it is so obvious. All you had to do was wait. Come up with a sensible release of a correct re-edition of the Army. I'm sure people would buy it because it's a Doxa. All you have done is show how disjointed you are. I've said it before, you need to sack the idiots in the marketing department and try and act like a cohesive company that knows what it is doing.


I beat you to this with my politeness, but I think we are essentially saying the same thing.

I think the synchron one is closer to the original, hands and all


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## wiesi1989 (Sep 13, 2019)

I think if synchron wouldn´t have stated its from the 70´s - you Doxa guys wouldn´t even know. lol


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

Oh boy.


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## TOMMYTHUNDERS (Apr 7, 2020)

Excited for the legal wrangling ahead! Will the synchron models ever get delivered?


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

Synchron is mystery origin (chinese made), doxa can slap "swiss" on theirs.


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## wiesi1989 (Sep 13, 2019)

TOMMYTHUNDERS said:


> Excited for the legal wrangling ahead! Will the synchron models ever get delivered?


Why should´t they?


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

TSH said:


> Synchron is mystery origin (chinese made), doxa can slap "swiss" on theirs.


But they aren't. Synchron is a swiss company, and has been since it's inception. Synchron owns the likes of aquadive and aquastar and the such.


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

CityMorgue said:


> But they aren't. Synchron is a swiss company, and has been since it's inception. Synchron owns the likes of aquadive and aquastar and the such.


But they are. Synchron started peddling aquadive as iconic swiss brand, then boom "made in germany". Army doesn't even have country stated.


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

CityMorgue said:


> But they aren't. Synchron is a swiss company, and has been since it's inception. Synchron owns the likes of aquadive and aquastar and the such.


I am talking about army model not the company.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

TSH said:


> Synchron is mystery origin (chinese made), doxa can slap "swiss" on theirs.


I really wouldn't start that discussion. You may find out a bunch of stuff about watches being made in China that you don't want to know............


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## orangeface (Feb 9, 2006)

With apologies to OP - since it's just a tease and there are no specs offered by Doxa, a side-by-side of these twin sons of different mothers is warranted...


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## TOMMYTHUNDERS (Apr 7, 2020)

wiesi1989 said:


> Why should´t they?


I'm sure a C&D from Doxa is incoming that will cite IP and trademark issues.


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## Ludi (Nov 1, 2009)

orangeface said:


> With apologies to OP - since it's just a tease and there are no specs offered by Doxa, a side-by-side of these twin sons of different mothers is warranted...
> 
> View attachment 15757759


Synchron design superior, definitely


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I really wouldn't start that discussion. You may find out a bunch of stuff about watches being made in China that you don't want to know............


I meant synchron doesn't hide anything in this case. Their army simply doesn't have swiss made on it. So it's not part of the discussion you're referring to.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

TOMMYTHUNDERS said:


> I'm sure a C&D from Doxa is incoming that will cite IP and trademark issues.


Who honestly knows how this actually is though. Synchron owned Doxa when the army was originally released, so it could be either way. And if there is no specific trademark or patent that was ever granted, it wouldn't go anywhere anyways.


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## BuyIndioOates (Jan 31, 2017)

Is the Synchron available for pre-order?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## charger02 (Apr 28, 2011)

This thread the the one last night is straight up bonkers! I was really interested in purchasing a Doxa but this drama gives me pause. 

As a potential buyer and new to the world of Doxa (with the exception of Dirk Pitt and Clive Cussler) this sort of brand infighting smacks of unprofessionalism and is a real turn off. 

Just my thoughts from the sidelines.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

TSH said:


> I meant synchron doesn't hide anything in this case. Their army simply doesn't have swiss made on it. So it's not part of the discussion you're referring to.


I think people will find this interesting with regard to Swiss Made









What Does It Mean for a Mechanical Watch to Be 'Swiss Made?'


Are all Swiss watches really 100% made in Switzerland?




www.gearpatrol.com


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Interesting discussion. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

BuyIndioOates said:


> Is the Synchron available for pre-order?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


It sure is. If you go to the diver's forum, you will find the link with the pre-order information.


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## Wallyg (Mar 22, 2016)

The dial is too busy/cluttered for my liking.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I think people will find this interesting with regard to Swiss Made
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's definitely a rabbit hole that many don't want to go down. We take a lot of "Swiss Made" marketing for gospel; sometimes ignorance is bliss.


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## BuyIndioOates (Jan 31, 2017)

CityMorgue said:


> It sure is. If you go to the diver's forum, you will find the link with the pre-order information.


Thanks.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I really wouldn't start that discussion. You may find out a bunch of stuff about watches being made in China that you don't want to know............


I'm having flashbacks


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## fellini212 (Aug 20, 2020)

CityMorgue said:


> But they aren't. Synchron is a swiss company, and has been since it's inception. Synchron owns the likes of aquadive and aquastar and the such.


 It's Austrian.


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## labratpip (Nov 24, 2019)

At least Synchron got the hands right. C'mon, Doxa....How do you put the wrong hands on your own mock up???


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

I ordered Rick’s Synchron. I’ll probably end up with DOXA’s too. I’m a sucker for their stuff.


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

lab-guy said:


> I ordered Rick's Synchron. I'll probably end up with DOXA's too. I'm a sucker for their stuff.


Now THAT'S being a team player!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I prefer the hands on the Synchron Military more than this Doxa Army.


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## tacit (Jan 21, 2020)

In for one of each of the Synchron. The Heaton Hype ™ is way too real...


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

riff raff said:


> Now THAT'S being a team player!


I mean you dont get called Mike the Doxa-Nut for nothing


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

Lol


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

I think they both look nice.

Not sure why a number of people are assuming the Doxa one will be significantly more expensive - when they successfully managed to release the comparatively cheaper Sub200.

I think Doxa could do with some Orange on the hands - but I like the bracelet.

I assume the Synchron is only going to be internet order from America - and as a non-American I’ll probably appreciate the Authorised Dealer network that is now available from Doxa themselves.

Must admit, when I received the e-mail this morning I was tempted to get a order in for the black bodied one - but now I’ll probably wait and see what the Doxa version is like. 


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

KAS118 said:


> I think they both look nice.
> 
> Not sure why a number of people are assuming the Doxa one will be significantly more expensive - when they successfully managed to release the comparatively cheaper Sub200.
> 
> ...


It would be really weird if they charge about 2 grand for the 300T and then release the Army which is almost the same watch for half that price. Would makes you wonder why they charge that much for the 300T.


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## Mtvandi (Aug 1, 2020)

I really like the Synchron better and having owned a few Aquadive's, I know the quality of what they make is very solid. They used to call out where each part of the watch was manufactured (mainly EU) and that was refreshing in the smoke and mirror manufacturing most companies follow.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> I think they both look nice.
> 
> Not sure why a number of people are assuming the Doxa one will be significantly more expensive - when they successfully managed to release the comparatively cheaper Sub200.
> 
> ...


The problem with Doxa's version, is a couple of things. If the picture is to be believed, (which is only adding to the confusion based on the instagram caption,) then the hands are completely wrong. The original Army has the same exact hands as the Synchron version. If the picture isn't real, and only just an old prototype picture from back in the day, then Doxa looks even worse for announcing a watch they don't even know what they are going to do with. And we already know Doxa is not even going to be able to come close to the price of the Synchron version. Their last few releases are precedent, and if you think they are going to release this 'army' at the same price as their sub 200, I have some bridges to sell you.

The way the Synchron versions are selling right now, I would put money that they are basically sold out within a day or so. They've already sold more than half of the allotted bunch.

Also, the website does say you can order outside of america....It's not just for sale for americans.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

I do like that the crown is recessed on this one as opposed to the Synchron one. I couldn’t quite put my finger on what was bothering me about it but it’s really sticking out like a sore thump..


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

MaBr said:


> It would be really weird if they charge about 2 grand for the 300T and then release the Army which is almost the same watch for half that price. Would makes you wonder why they charge that much for the 300T.


The 300T has 4 times the water resistance of the Synchron, so if Doxa are only going to match that then specification wise it isn't going to be the same as the more expensive 300T.

However, the truth is we don't know what Doxa's price point or specification is going to be at the moment.

Until you have them in your hands, you're never going to know for sure how good the quality is going to be.

I'm not making any pre-judgements on either watch at the moment. But I do know Doxa now have an Authorised Dealer network whilst Synchron don't. For some people that make swing it whilst others may not care.

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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

MadsNilsson said:


> I do like that the crown is recessed on this one as opposed to the Synchron one. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was bothering me about it but it's really sticking out like a sore thump..
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah, hadn't noticed that - but the Doxa's is much better IMHO.

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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

KAS118 said:


> The 300T has 4 times the water resistance of the Synchron, so if Doxa are only going to match that then specification wise it isn't going to be the same as the more expensive 300T.
> 
> However, the truth is we don't know what Doxa's price point or specification is going to be at the moment.
> 
> ...


If you're Avatar is a Doxa, you may be biased. just saying.  It's all good, I'm just here for the conversation.


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

MaBr said:


> It would be really weird if they charge about 2 grand for the 300T and then release the Army which is almost the same watch for half that price. Would makes you wonder why they charge that much for the 300T.


I'd suspect that both the synchron and doxa are going to come in at around £2k, priced between the 300T and 300.

I'm probably going to avoid the synchron, as details for non US buyers seem sketchy and hard to come by, which doesn't fill me with confidence as a consumer.


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

riff raff said:


> Are these two different companies?


Yes - DOXA has been owned by the Jenny family operating out of Biel/Bienne for some time. The owner of the Synchron brand (group) is the former licensee and distributor (originally exclusive, then slowly diluted) based in Vienna, Austria with a US office in Virginia. DOXA rather unceremoniously informed him (Rick Marei) that they would not be renewing his contract back in 2019.


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

TSH said:


> Synchron is mystery origin (chinese made), doxa can slap "swiss" on theirs.


"I'll take poorly arrived at conclusions for $1,000 Alex"... No, Synchron was a Swiss brand, purchased by the former licensee/distributor of the DOXA SUB. Rick Marei is the owner of Synchron.


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## fellini212 (Aug 20, 2020)

Henki said:


> "I'll take poorly arrived at conclusions for $1,000 Alex"... No, Synchron *was *a Swiss brand, purchased by the former licensee/distributor of the DOXA SUB. Rick Marei is the owner of Synchron.


40 years ago.

And it wasn't itself a brand of watch or a watchmaker, it was a holding company under whose ASUAG umbrella several small Swiss firms made watches.






Synchron [Watch Wiki]







www.watch-wiki.net


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Anders_Flint said:


> I'd suspect that both the synchron and doxa are going to come in at around £2k, priced between the 300T and 300.
> 
> I'm probably going to avoid the synchron, as details for non US buyers seem sketchy and hard to come by, which doesn't fill me with confidence as a consumer.


The usual price for the Synchron is $1,290 but currently available at $990 pre-order. However, you have to add taxes and possibly import duty on to that.

Still seems a reasonable price though.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Man, I honestly thought I would stop calling Doxa out for stupidity but I can't let this go. What the heck are you doing with that mock up travesty you posted? You saw the Synchron and just wet your pants and had a knee jerk reaction and put that out with "Only the original deserves your trust". For a start your mock up uses the wrong case and the wrong hands so it is nothing like the original. I'm surprised you didn't add a price tag of $4999.
> 
> People are laughing at you. I know that the Army was ready to be released years ago but you stopped it happening and now you have been caught with your pants down.
> 
> You panicked and it is so obvious. All you had to do was wait. Come up with a sensible release of a correct re-edition of the Army. I'm sure people would buy it because it's a Doxa. All you have done is show how disjointed you are. I've said it before, you need to sack the idiots in the marketing department and try and act like a cohesive company that knows what it is doing.


A few important things to bear in mind - DOXA in its modern iteration is not and has not been the type of traditional watch brand that many here perceive it to be. Yes, watches are designed, watches are manufactured, and watches are sold. But DOXA the brand relies on WALCA to make watches - i.e. white label. And spoiler alert - so do a TON of other Swiss brands. White label is what keeps the wheels turning for a ton of brands. Having said that, as someone who was actually employed during a few of the previous fiascos, allow me to share a few important things -
1. DOXA, for the most part, was very content to let Rick do the heavy lifting for the SUB - design, marketing, sales, etc. And a lot of the ideas were great, but some (if we are being honest) were not "ready for prime time". I suspect many here can remember the ill-fated dress chronograph with power reserve and its painful birth back in 2008/2009. Certainly during my time there and what followed, that was always the situation. When I negotiated a partnership with Project AWARE, I suspect that came out of Rick's pockets - just as when other special/limited series were launched. Even, I suspect when I negotiated the partnership with Mr. Cousteau's Ocean Futures Society in Santa Barbara back in 2010. The parent brand didn't put in any effort, it was up to me - and ultimately Rick as the person responsible for the SUB to make it happen. And until the decision was made take the SUB back, things went well often enough that they were content to carry on that way.

2. Unless there has been a DRAMATIC change, the DOXA SUB is primarily being driven by the CEO (NOT A Jenny), Jan Edöcs, and I am fairly confident that there is not a crack team of marketers thinking through some of these launches. Don't get me wrong, this one is a lulu, but the reality is that despite the belief that the world was ending when Rick separated and was no longer involved with DOXA, as this forum and the people still talking about and purchasing DOXA SUBs will attest, the brand is still in business and moving forward. Are they making watches that excite me? Not so much. Are their press releases about 20 shades of goofy? Absolutely! But again, in fairness, people still clearly love the brand and want to buy the watches.

DOXA is now, as far as I understand it, in many ways as it was back in 2007, and when I left in 2010 - the SUB is viewed as it's own brand or product line. The main difference is that the company is now fully in control of what that product will be, how it will be introduced, and the messaging. Don't get me wrong, they have a LOT of work to do to improve, and if they continue on the way they are going it will be full of fits and stops, but as one of the people who had to field complaints and "critiques" about strategy, product, etc. from a lot of the people still active on this forum, what I can say is that it wasn't all roses and sunshine "back in the day" either 

Be well -


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

Henki said:


> "I'll take poorly arrived at conclusions for $1,000 Alex"... No, Synchron was a Swiss brand, purchased by the former licensee/distributor of the DOXA SUB. Rick Marei is the owner of Synchron.


Yep. I love Doxa, but to say Rick doesn't know what he's doing would be a leap. Just say'n.


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## hooliganjrs (Dec 30, 2011)

I personally fell for the FOMO on the Syncron release and ordered a stainless version. Not sure I really like where Doxa is headed and quite honestly after a certain individual left - I follow the talent (no flared end links for this cowboy, sorry) 😁. Doxa's response this morning on Insta seemed petty to me and if you ask me Syncron caught them with their pants down.

But like others, this is great drama in the WIS world, and I'm here eating the popcorn 🍿


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## E8ArmyDiver (Aug 7, 2009)

riff raff said:


> Are these two different companies?


YES,Doxa is now owned by Jenny & Synchron Watch Group also owns Aquadive & Aquastar..I believe Synchron Group MADE THE Original for Doxa..


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## E8ArmyDiver (Aug 7, 2009)

ross2187 said:


> I would pay more for the Doxa considering they took the effort to keep the crown sunk into the case. The crown on the synchron looks huge!


hahahahahahahaa the crown is probably UNSCREWED in the Synchron pics..


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## E8ArmyDiver (Aug 7, 2009)

MadsNilsson said:


> I do like that the crown is recessed on this one as opposed to the Synchron one. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was bothering me about it but it's really sticking out like a sore thump..
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


JFC people,the crown is most likely UNSCREWED for picture taking!


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

E8ArmyDiver said:


> hahahahahahahaa the crown is probably UNSCREWED in the Synchron pics..


Please elaborate on why you think that?
I don't see any evidence in the pictures that support it just being unscrewed (which quite frankly doesn't make a lot of sense either).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## E8ArmyDiver (Aug 7, 2009)

MadsNilsson said:


> Please elaborate on why you think that?
> I don't see any evidence in the pictures that support it just being unscrewed (which quite frankly doesn't make a lot of sense either).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because there is NOTHING new here,basically this is a Special Edition Sub 1200 & if you look closely you can clearly see it's screwed out...


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## dinexus (Nov 18, 2012)

I think anyone who wants a watch at the quality that we remember doxa to once have, the choice between the two is stupidly clear.


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## Ketchup time (Apr 23, 2015)

E8ArmyDiver said:


> Because there is NOTHING new here,basically this is a Special Edition Sub 1200 & if you look closely you can clearly see it's screwed out...


You realize the Synchron Military does not use the 1200 case don't you!?!


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

This has become a pretty heated/informative thread.

Synchron definitely got it right, even down to the strap. Here is an ad from 1969 advertising the original army. It's not great quality, but even shows the shine of steel vs. pvd. I have seen some pics of the original model that actually show rubbed out pvd. But this thing is so rare, it's hard to tell what it was like to buy new or see in the wild so many moons ago.










Some seem annoyed at the crown and how it sticks out. Well, if you've owned your share of vintage Subs, the last generation of Synchron Subs had similar crown arrangements. Ooh triple signed, nice Synchron logo on that dial!










I just ordered my Synchron Army/Military in steel, and it will be my 13th Sub. Dimensionally, mating it to a Marei era rice bead bracelet shouldn't be an issue either. I have extras. But will I commit a fallacy by putting the two together? ?


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

There's actually a Doxa Army for sale right now on Chrono24 with the same hands as on the Doxa "teaser" pic so it seems it has actually been sold like this, or maybe it's a prototype.... Could it be that these actually are the original hands and that were later replaced with the "arrow" ones? Perhaps Doxa will release their version with the bracelet and these hands, and say that they are more vintage/original and that way differ from the Synchron version?


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## Fergfour (Jan 4, 2013)

Ketchup time said:


> You realize the Synchron Military does not use the 1200 case don't you!?!


Agreed. The crown isn't "unscrewed for pictures". The differences seems obvious to me.


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## uvalaw2005 (May 27, 2009)

Fergfour said:


> Agreed. The crown isn't "unscrewed for pictures". The differences seems obvious to me.
> 
> View attachment 15758686
> View attachment 15758689


Hey, you cropped out my username! I'd know that scratched clasp anywhere. 🤣


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

E8ArmyDiver said:


> Because there is NOTHING new here,basically this is a Special Edition Sub 1200 & if you look closely you can clearly see it's screwed out...


A pic from Jason Heatons review, the crown sticks out a fair bit and I doubt he uses the watch with the crown unscrewed. There is no cutout in the case for the crown like on the 1200T and others.


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## orangeface (Feb 9, 2006)

So, it's Rick's Army vs. the Jenny's Army...clearly the battle has begun.

Seems that somewhere along the line, one of these two companies will have a patent on SOMETHING related to the original Army Doxa.


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## uvalaw2005 (May 27, 2009)

Snulle said:


> A pic from Jason Heatons review, the crown sticks out a fair bit and I doubt he uses the watch with the crown unscrewed. There is no cutout in the case for the crown like on the 1200T and others.
> 
> View attachment 15758705


Heaton also said on IG that the crown does not cause discomfort.


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

Something I'm curious about is why the coloring of the numbers on the bezel differs between the steel and PVD version? I actually like the creamy colour on the steel version better but I ordered a PVD version since I like the watch as a whole better in a black case. I guess I'll write an email and ask tomorrow, now I'm off to bed.


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

uvalaw2005 said:


> Heaton also said on IG that the crown does not cause discomfort.


Yes, but on the pics he wears it on his right wrist so the crown does not "dig in" the fold between the wrist and the hand like it can do/does when wearing it on the left wrist. I'm sure it's OK though.


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## uvalaw2005 (May 27, 2009)

Snulle said:


> Yes, but on the pics he wears it on his right wrist so the crown does not "dig in" the fold between the wrist and the hand like it can do/does when wearing it on the left wrist. I'm sure it's OK though.


Excellent point!


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## Rmfn33 (Aug 30, 2019)

Looking forward to seeing the final product here. But right now leaning synchron


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

Henki said:


> "I'll take poorly arrived at conclusions for $1,000 Alex"... No, Synchron was a Swiss brand, purchased by the former licensee/distributor of the DOXA SUB. Rick Marei is the owner of Synchron.


I wasn't talking about the brand, I was talking about army model. So you did arrive to conclusions poorly.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

E8ArmyDiver said:


> Because there is NOTHING new here,basically this is a Special Edition Sub 1200 & if you look closely you can clearly see it's screwed out...


I think you'll find that you are wrong and while I agree that this is not new, it does not make the crown any less of an eyesore.

Generally I also feel that no matter what way you twist this, this watch should say Doxa Army on the dial and not Synchron (sans Doxa) Military, as such it will always remain in the same category as Steeldive etc.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

It’s all in the hands

Military > Army


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I think people will find this interesting with regard to Swiss Made
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe that's a not-so-well kept secret, generally speaking. But I also think TSH has a point re. the specific Synchron Military model at hand... -> The fact that it doesn't state "Swiss Made" (or anywhere else in Western Europe with some watchmaking tradition) does give me pause.

The Aquastar Deepstar clearly shows that when Synchron can use the "Swiss Made" label, they do. And the price of the Synchron Military is also (significantly) lower than that of similarly specced Aquadives...

That all of this has nothing to do with the intrinsic quality of watches is obviously a well established fact, but an entirely different discussion, IMHO.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> I believe that's a not-so-well kept secret, generally speaking. But I also think TSH has a point re. the specific Synchron Military model at hand... -> The fact that it doesn't state "Swiss Made" (or anywhere else in Western Europe with some watchmaking tradition) does give me pause.
> 
> The Aquastar Deepstar clearly shows that when Synchron can use the "Swiss Made" label, they do. And the price of the Synchron Military is also (significantly) lower than that of similarly specced Aquatimes...
> 
> That all of this has nothing to do with the intrinsic quality of watches is obviously a well established fact, but an entirely different discussion, IMHO.


For those who value "Swiss Made" this must be a strike against the Synchron watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fellini212 (Aug 20, 2020)

The Synchron Army case looks a lot like the AquaDive case, including the prominent crown.


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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

..........Actually......this case really looks like the case Maranez is using for the Samui line.........of which our very own Doc (flying doctor) wrote a Great positive review 🤔 of (on the website of maranez.com to read) 
When thinking about this......plus I believe he knows Mr Marei personally.

And very likely there is still some bad blood between the now new resurrected Synchron brand (which I absolutely love by the way)🙄
And Doxa........

Also the comment from Doc about the rabbit hole and illusions about Swiss made.......and the price difference between this Synchron sub and the 300t ??????
I 'm not judging......and honestly couldn't care less where the watch is made as long as it houses the Swiss movement and then still if it would house a Miyota it would not matter either.......only the price has to be a little lower 🙃then.......and of course the Quality Control which I believe is the most important aspect when dealing with Chinese manufacturers .............which can make everything as good as any other country as long the contractor is willing to pay and check ✔ the product before shipping it out to us watch junkies 😉

That crown does stick out like a sore thumb tho😫 
And there are no photos of the watch viewed from the side.....
Still.....all of this are..... no deal breakers for me.......as I Placed my order directly........well after 3 minutes looking at the Synchron site........
Which can use a upgrade or no?????.....it's pretty spartan from what I can see......
But still....cannot wait for other Synchron subs to be released..........
They could in theory ....release their own line of (300t) subs...branded as Synchron in the same price bracket as this Military no??????

That and the fan base Mr Marei obviously has could very likely be the end of Jenny/Doxa like it's the quartz era all over again......

Having said all that........I still very much Love my Rambler 300 tho........
But if it was up to Mr Marei I would Not have owned it........... as it was a limited edition.........

Anyhoe enjoying the caffafle about this release and looking forward to wearing the 300 on the left and the Military on the right.....

Regards...


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

TSH said:


> I wasn't talking about the brand, I was talking about army model. So you did arrive to conclusions poorly.


Ooooh - someone's touchy! Fair enough - take care.


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## wiesi1989 (Sep 13, 2019)

fellini212 said:


> The Synchron Army case looks a lot like the AquaDive case, including the prominent crown.


Don´t think so, Aquadive case looks completely different imho - much bulkier and a bit more beefy. Afaik are they from Fricker Germany (as I read in different forums). I always was into Aquadive, maybe ordering the Poseidon if my hunger is not satisfied with my doxa and the new synchron.


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

Ot1S said:


> ..........Actually......this case really looks like the case Maranez is using for the Samui line.........of which our very own Doc (flying doctor) wrote a Great positive review 🤔 of (on the website of maranez.com to read)
> When thinking about this......plus I believe he knows Mr Marei personally.
> 
> And very likely there is still some bad blood between the now new resurrected Synchron brand (which I absolutely love by the way)🙄
> ...


Right on, pretty sure it's from the same Morones shop. (Down in gwandong province)


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## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

TOMMYTHUNDERS said:


> Excited for the legal wrangling ahead! Will the synchron models ever get delivered?


I just got a fedex tracking number so looks like it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

MaBr said:


> It would be really weird if they charge about 2 grand for the 300T and then release the Army which is almost the same watch for half that price. Would makes you wonder why they charge that much for the 300T.


Yeah they would have to revisit their whole price structure to make this $1k. Knowing current management it'll be much easier to just price it the same as the 300/300T or just go all out bonkers like with the carbon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

Forsythjones said:


> I just got a fedex tracking number so looks like it!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So they ship right away, not in April?


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## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

TSH said:


> So they ship right away, not in April?


The PVD one said available in April, looks like steel is available right now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Ot1S said:


> ..........Actually......this case really looks like the case Maranez is using for the Samui line.........of which our very own Doc (flying doctor) wrote a Great positive review 🤔 of (on the website of maranez.com to read)
> When thinking about this......plus I believe he knows Mr Marei personally.
> 
> And very likely there is still some bad blood between the now new resurrected Synchron brand (which I absolutely love by the way)🙄
> ...


A zoomed shot of my recently purchased Maranez case/crown for comparison. I might add the finishing is very nice, more than what you'd expect for the price point.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

The Military uses the same case design as the Synchron case Doxa SUB which is the case that was used on the original watch. There is a slight recess in the side of the case which allows the crown to screw into, just as there was on the Synchron original case. 

As correctly pointed out, Maranez used the Synchron case design when they made the Samui. Difference being internally to house a Seiko NH35 movement and also drilled lugs. They have also changed theirs again (I have the Gen 2 to review).


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## sless711 (Jan 27, 2021)

stainless steel military sold out


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## uperhemi (Nov 15, 2018)

sless711 said:


> stainless steel military sold out


 I love how this thread was intended for Doxa Army by Doxa S. A., but it ended up discussing about Synchron Military... lol


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## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

sless711 said:


> stainless steel military sold out


Damn, just over 24 hours. There is some confusion about how many there actually were, which seems to be the case with Synchron (see Aquadive GMT that was allegedly limited to 300 but is somehow still for sale 18 months later)

The email said 300 of each color but the website said 250 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

uperhemi said:


> I love how this thread was intended for Doxa Army by Doxa S. A., but it ended up discussing about Synchron Military... lol


Yes, pretty funny. Doxa promo sold synchron military pretty fast.


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## lilreddivinghood (Apr 17, 2008)

wiesi1989 said:


> I think if synchron wouldn´t have stated its from the 70´s - you Doxa guys wouldn´t even know. lol


Beggin' ta diffah' brah......


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## lilreddivinghood (Apr 17, 2008)

KAS118 said:


> I think they both look nice.
> 
> Not sure why a number of people are assuming the Doxa one will be significantly more expensive - when they successfully managed to release the comparatively cheaper Sub200.
> 
> ...


Not a fan of the "rainbow" assortment of Doxa 200 subs. Wait and lose out buddy....lots of orders from the Doxa FB pages as well as many other Dive watch FB pages. SS ones are sold out already!


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## lilreddivinghood (Apr 17, 2008)

Snulle said:


> There's actually a Doxa Army for sale right now on Chrono24 with the same hands as on the Doxa "teaser" pic so it seems it has actually been sold like this, or maybe it's a prototype.... Could it be that these actually are the original hands and that were later replaced with the "arrow" ones? Perhaps Doxa will release their version with the bracelet and these hands, and say that they are more vintage/original and that way differ from the Synchron version?
> 
> View attachment 15758651


These are the original hands......these are even on the original advertisements.


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## E8ArmyDiver (Aug 7, 2009)

*MadsNilsson
Registered*
Joined Mar 27, 2012
859 Posts
#85 • 8 h ago



> E8ArmyDiver said:
> Because there is NOTHING new here,basically this is a Special Edition Sub 1200 & if you look closely you can clearly see it's screwed out...


I think you'll find that you are wrong and while I agree that this is not new, it does not make the crown any less of an eyesore.

Generally I also feel that no matter what way you twist this, this watch should say Doxa Army on the dial and not Synchron (sans Doxa) Military, as such it will always remain in the same category as Steeldive etc.



Flyingdoctor said:


> The Military uses the same case design as the Synchron case Doxa SUB which is the case that was used on the original watch. There is a slight recess in the side of the case which allows the crown to screw into, just as there was on the Synchron original case.


Sooo looks like I KNEW EXACTLY what I was talking about..Hows that foot in your mouth tasting?
Oh & comparing to Steeldive,ABSOLUTELY hands down the most absurd statement I have EVER hears on WUS!


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

lilreddivinghood said:


> These are the original hands......these are even on the original advertisements.
> View attachment 15759653
> 
> View attachment 15759652


Exactly, very googlable stuff, no need for making up theories...

View attachment 15759683


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

There are Doxa Army's out there with normal Doxa hands..

I


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

E8ArmyDiver said:


> *MadsNilsson
> Registered*
> Joined Mar 27, 2012
> 859 Posts
> ...


I don't see how that vindicates you, it's still not unscrewed. My point was that it made no sense for the crown to be unscrewed in every picture. AND it's still an eyesore. 
I don't think the Steeldive comparison is far out, it's another company's watch design with Synchrons name on it after all..

I don't see why you are posting my profile info though?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

ross2187 said:


> There are Doxa Army's out there with normal Doxa hands..
> 
> I
> View attachment 15759697
> ...


I think that the picture Doxa posted is an original as well and not a render.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

ross2187 said:


> There are Doxa Army's out there with normal Doxa hands..


I'm not about to say that this particular watch is wrong, but because so few of these are still in existence, and so little original information from when the watch was sold, it's hard to definitively say if those hands are original or not. There have been many vintage Doxas that have popped up over the years with interesting variances. Some could be replacements parts, or just in general frankenwatches. So far it appears that the hands that the Synchron watches use are about as genuine as they get. Mostly because the couple of ads and most of the Army's that have shown their face all use the same exact hands.


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

CityMorgue said:


> I'm not about to say that this particular watch is wrong, but because so few of these are still in existence, and so little original information from when the watch was sold, it's hard to definitively say if those hands are original or not. There have been many vintage Doxas that have popped up over the years with interesting variances. Some could be replacements parts, or just in general frankenwatches. So far it appears that the hands that the Synchron watches use are about as genuine as they get. Mostly because the couple of ads and most of the Army's that have shown their face all use the same exact hands.


I agree. But, it's something to ponder at the least. _passes a friendly beer_


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

MadsNilsson said:


> I think that the picture Doxa posted is an original as well and not a render.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I think so too. Just as doxa said: "original picture of several executions".


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

ross2187 said:


> I agree. But, it's something to ponder at the least. _passes a friendly beer_


It is indeed. The history of vintage Doxa is definitely intriguing, and so must of that information has been lost to time. In one of flyingdoctor's book about Doxa, he brings up a lot of oddities, and for the most part, you can take them at face value as genuine in the absence of information. Just saying that IMO, with the Synchron version, I consider it to be the best representation of what we know about the Army from the 70s


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

FWIW, shipped from Wien Austria _shrugs_


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## Mtvandi (Aug 1, 2020)

uperhemi said:


> I love how this thread was intended for Doxa Army by Doxa S. A., but it ended up discussing about Synchron Military... lol


Yes, but didn't the Syncros release cause the Doxa rapid response? Kind of cause and effect thanks to an old Doxa Ambassador.


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

CityMorgue said:


> It is indeed. The history of vintage Doxa is definitely intriguing, and so must of that information has been lost to time. In one of flyingdoctor's book about Doxa, he brings up a lot of oddities, and for the most part, you can take them at face value as genuine in the absence of information. Just saying that IMO, with the Synchron version, I consider it to be the best representation of what we know about the Army from the 70s


What I found interesting, going back and reading the Doxa post with people complaining about the hands - Doxa is commenting back that their model is referencing a model from the 70's. There's what- 20-100 origional Army's made back in the day, from what I put together. And if this was done for a contract of some sort, with a few available to the public there is a darn good chance there was a dash of variety in the batches. So I'm guessing Doxa is producing a specific instance of the Army, from the 70s with blade hands narrow seconds, which may have had a short production run. All fine by me.


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

lab-guy said:


> FWIW, shipped from Wien Austria _shrugs_


At least not from Wuhan...


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

ross2187 said:


> What I found interesting, going back and reading the Doxa post with people complaining about the hands - Doxa is commenting back that their model is referencing a model from the 70's. There's what- 20-100 origional Army's made back in the day, from what I put together. And if this was done for a contract of some sort, with a few available to the public there is a darn good chance there was a dash of variety in the batches. So I'm guessing Doxa is producing a specific instance of the Army, from the 70s with blade hands narrow seconds, which may have had a short production run. All fine by me.


Again it is totally possible, but it's also hard to truly believe what Doxa is saying because the backlash they have received because of they way they have handled the Synchron military does make me question their thought process. Especially with their snarky 'only the original deserves your trust.' And if that is the case, then it was with Synchron's help Doxa even produced it to begin with... This whole drama is fascinating, and Doxa has lost a lot of respect in my eyes. So it's hard for me personally to take what Doxa posted as truth at face value without more evidence that it indeed is some original variant.


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

ross2187 said:


> What I found interesting, going back and reading the Doxa post with people complaining about the hands - Doxa is commenting back that their model is referencing a model from the 70's. There's what- 20-100 origional Army's made back in the day, from what I put together. And if this was done for a contract of some sort, with a few available to the public there is a darn good chance there was a dash of variety in the batches. So I'm guessing Doxa is producing a specific instance of the Army, from the 70s with blade hands narrow seconds, which may have had a short production run. All fine by me.


True. All the more reason to have both


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

ross2187 said:


> What I found interesting, going back and reading the Doxa post with people complaining about the hands - Doxa is commenting back that their model is referencing a model from the 70's. There's what- 20-100 origional Army's made back in the day, from what I put together. And if this was done for a contract of some sort, with a few available to the public there is a darn good chance there was a dash of variety in the batches. So I'm guessing Doxa is producing a specific instance of the Army, from the 70s with blade hands narrow seconds, which may have had a short production run. All fine by me.


Quite a good point

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uperhemi (Nov 15, 2018)

Doxa released another photo with 'correct' hands:




















__
http://instagr.am/p/CMSVwgNL_dx/


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

Well, Doxa just posted a 'prototype,' and wouldn't you know it... the hands have magically changed to the proper blocky hands of the original... And I can promise you this won't be cheap either. It will cost around the same price as a 300T, or more. The freaking shenanigans of Doxa....


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

CityMorgue said:


> Again it is totally possible, but it's also hard to truly believe what Doxa is saying because the backlash they have received because of they way they have handled the Synchron military does make me question their thought process. Especially with their snarky 'only the original deserves your trust.' And if that is the case, then it was with Synchron's help Doxa even produced it to begin with... This whole drama is fascinating, and Doxa has lost a lot of respect in my eyes. So it's hard for me personally to take what Doxa posted as truth at face value without more evidence that it indeed is some original variant.


If I'm honest I understand why Doxa included the quip about originality. 
After all this incarnation of Synchron has nothing to do with the original company (just as Doxa of today has a tenuous historical link at best to the original company) that owned Doxa and now they are making watches from Doxa back catalogue. 
I know that the fabled Marei was instrumental in resurrecting the Sub but then he left the company. If an employee left my company and started making a product aping mine then I would be pissed as well..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

CityMorgue said:


> Well, Doxa just posted a 'prototype,' and wouldn't you know it... the hands have magically changed to the proper blocky hands of the original... And I can promise you this won't be cheap either. It will cost around the same price as a 300T, or more. The freaking shenanigans of Doxa....


They do say it's a prototype, but looks like vintage pic....


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

I was going to give Doxa a “pass” on their original IG post (stupid medium anyway, IMHO / maybe not a native speaker posting...).

But with that second post they are really starting to look rather silly.


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## hooliganjrs (Dec 30, 2011)

The hits keep on coming - its like Doxa knows the train derailed, but now they are just throwing fuel on the fire and eating popcorn while the poor bodies are burning. The instagram comments have been proving quite the read, lol. Now if Syncron would send me my tracking info I could actually get some work done today 

Meanwhile at Doxa hq......









Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

TSH said:


> They do say it's a prototype, but looks like vintage pic....


I wouldn't put it past them to do something like that. I highly doubt they have truly produced a prototype yet, and are just trying to save face, and in the process, look like complete fools.



paysdoufs said:


> I was going to give Doxa a "pass" on their original IG post (stupid medium anyway, IMHO / maybe not a native speaker posting...).
> 
> But with that second post they are really starting to look rather silly.


I noticed this as well. Clearly the 'other hands' didn't get the reception they expected, and realized that they had to go and admit that the blocky hands are what everyone wants. It's just further proof that the new management seriously are lost and rudderless right now.


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

Too funny:


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

CityMorgue said:


> Again it is totally possible, but it's also hard to truly believe what Doxa is saying because the backlash they have received because of they way they have handled the Synchron military does make me question their thought process. Especially with their snarky 'only the original deserves your trust.' And if that is the case, then it was with Synchron's help Doxa even produced it to begin with... This whole drama is fascinating, and Doxa has lost a lot of respect in my eyes. So it's hard for me personally to take what Doxa posted as truth at face value without more evidence that it indeed is some original variant.


Doxa is probably the


MadsNilsson said:


> If I'm honest I understand why Doxa included the quip about originality.
> After all this incarnation of Synchron has nothing to do with the original company (just as Doxa of today has a tenuous historical link at best to the original company) that owned Doxa and now they are making watches from Doxa back catalogue.
> I know that the fabled Marei was instrumental in resurrecting the Sub but then he left the company. If an employee left my company and started making a product aping mine then I would be pissed as well..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Doxa like some other brands have a long and sorted history of drama on the watch boards. I've learned that if you like the watch and it meets your personal preferences, by all means buy it. If you're hung up on Swiss Made labeling and re-sale value of said watch, you probably are in the wrong hobby to begin with.
Doxa has many fanboi's that will protect the brand to their dying breath and there's nothing wrong with that. We all have our favorite brands and I'm betting each has it's share of questionable origins. If the gentlemen who put the resurrected Doxa brand line of Subs back on the map leaves Doxa to bring his designs to Synchron that's great news for all of us buyers. If there's legal issues involved, let the brands fight it out, however I'd assume the legal team was consulted at Synchron prior to release.
just my 2 cents.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

So no response from DOXA on this forum other than the ad posts?


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## robannenagy (Jan 7, 2009)

Looking at this 'proto', straight away I did notice that the macro shot conveniently didn't show the 'T Swiss Made T' at the bottom of the dial. Also the lume on the indices looks really old. I don't know why Doxa keep digging themselves into an ever deeper hole, the Synchron will probably be completely sold out by tomorrow. The best thing Doxa can do is just keep quiet.


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

Watchout63 said:


> if you like the watch and it meets your personal preferences, by all means buy it.


This guy gets it right here!


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## exc-hulk (Sep 5, 2009)

TSH said:


> Too funny:
> View attachment 15760018



A prototype, mmmhhh


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

TSH said:


> At least not from Wuhan...


What, like the way the DOXA cases are.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

MadsNilsson said:


> I know that the fabled Marei was instrumental in resurrecting the Sub but then he left the company. If an employee left my company and started making a product aping mine then I would be pissed as well..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just want to clear something up here. Rick Marei was never an employee of DOXA. He resurrected the brand. DOXA supplied parts and service to him. They ended that relationship.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Doxa is probably the
> 
> Doxa like some other brands have a long and sorted history of drama on the watch boards. I've learned that if you like the watch and it meets your personal preferences, by all means buy it. If you're hung up on Swiss Made labeling and re-sale value of said watch, you probably are in the wrong hobby to begin with.
> Doxa has many fanboi's that will protect the brand to their dying breath and there's nothing wrong with that. We all have our favorite brands and I'm betting each has it's share of questionable origins. If the gentlemen who put the resurrected Doxa brand line of Subs back on the map leaves Doxa to bring his designs to Synchron that's great news for all of us buyers. If there's legal issues involved, let the brands fight it out, however I'd assume the legal team was consulted at Synchron prior to release.
> just my 2 cents.


Oh I'm not implying that this is illegal, I'm just saying that if I was working for Doxa then I would be pissed that Synchron launched this model. In that respect I understand their snarky remark. 
I also think that they were caught completely off guard and should probably just have ignored the Synchron release..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Retina (Dec 20, 2010)

Does Doxa really use DNA or iconic as an argument? better to use only trademark or other legal arguments, there is an important shared story printed on stainless steel.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Just want to clear something up here. Rick Marei was never an employee of DOXA. He resurrected the brand. DOXA supplied parts and service to him. They ended that relationship.


I actually thought he was. In fact I was sure I had read that he left Doxa, which surely implies that he was there to begin with. Doesn't matter.
At any rate they had a professional relationship and that has thoroughly ended..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

MadsNilsson said:


> I actually thought he was. In fact I was sure I had read that he left Doxa, which surely implies that he was there to begin with. Doesn't matter.
> At any rate they had a professional relationship and that has thoroughly ended..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wonder what his bank deposit statements said...


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## Retina (Dec 20, 2010)

I´m inside with a Military SS immediately after seeing my mail


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

MadsNilsson said:


> Oh I'm not implying that this is illegal, I'm just saying that if I was working for Doxa then I would be pissed that Synchron launched this model. In that respect I understand their snarky remark.
> I also think that they were caught completely off guard and should probably just have ignored the Synchron release..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed. 
The knee jerk reaction by Doxa was just that. IMO, they should should have regrouped and said internally "Now What?" At the end of the day though even if Doxa was caught sleeping at the wheel with the Army/Military, 90% of the parts are already in existence so it shouldn't take long to put together their initial offerings. Produce a new dial and possibly hands, Chapter Ring and you're off and running. Shouldn't be a big deal in all honesty.


----------



## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

reluctantsnowman said:


> So no response from DOXA on this forum other than the ad posts?


But then again - Why would they respond?

This is a "storm in a teacup" and won't have any measurable impact on their breadwinner, the classic SUBs. I was just briefly tempted before bracing myself and realizing that what I really want is a SUB300 Pro or Caribbean 

Now if Synchron thinks they have a good legal team, I'd pay attention and be happy to save a couple hundred bucks


----------



## wiesi1989 (Sep 13, 2019)

exc-hulk said:


> A prototype, mmmhhh


New to me that tritium is used nowadays... 😎


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Just want to clear something up here. Rick Marei was never an employee of DOXA. He resurrected the brand. DOXA supplied parts and service to him. They ended that relationship.


Now I'm confused... Who actually assembled the SUBs back then? Already Walca or someone else?

EDIT: Just read that the Jenny family owns Walca... Correct?


----------



## exc-hulk (Sep 5, 2009)

wiesi1989 said:


> New to me that tritium is used nowadays... 😎


It's special Tritium made by DOXA without Tritium.


----------



## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

paysdoufs said:


> Now I'm confused... Who actually assembled the SUBs back then? Already Walca or someone else?
> 
> EDIT: Just read that the Jenny family owns Walca... Correct?


Good point - did Mr M assemble the Doxas?


----------



## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

8505davids said:


> Good point - did Mr M assemble the Doxas?


I can't imagine RM sitting at a bench all day assembling watches.  Surely he was just the front man (of some "not employed by Doxa" degree - to be determined) pressing the pavement and slinging watches..


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

8505davids said:


> Good point - did Mr M assemble the Doxas?


Jenny owns Walca. Assembly done in Switzerland, I was told by US Doxa back in the day


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Really can’t understand why people are moaning at Doxa so much?

The black and white dial in a tonneau case was originally their watch, so IMHO they have every right to issue a watch that harks back to that one.

Synchron has also produced one - they got it out first and it seems competitively priced.

However, that’s produced in a limited number and it seems that one version is already sold out, and no doubt the other version will be soon.

So Doxa bringing out their version isn't going to stop Synchron selling their limited production run.

So what’s the big deal/compliant about Doxa doing a re-issue? To me it’s good to have a choice - and if you’ve missed out on the Synchron you’ve got the option of going for the Doxa.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> Really can't understand why people are moaning at Doxa so much?
> 
> The black and white dial in a tonneau case was originally their watch, so IMHO they have every right to issue a watch that harks back to that one.
> 
> ...


The biggest reason is the absolutely petty childish response to the Synchron release. Doxa clearly had no plans in place to make this watch and scrambled at the last minute to try to one up the Synchron release. Then to blunder and post a supposed 'vintage' army with different hands, and then just today post another 'prototype' with the same hands that synchron is using and the original army used when it was first released. It's absolutely comical. They were clearly caught off guard, and then were tripping over themselves over it, and are now rightly getting dragged for this ridiculous move on Doxa's part.

Not to mention, we all know Doxa is in a tough position pricing wise.... The synchron is a high grade ETA 2824 in basically the same case style as a 300, for half the price. If Doxa releases this with the same exact movement for just over the pricing of the Synchron, then it truly begs the question, how can their other watches be priced so damn high? And if they price it at the same as their other offerings, people are going to scoff and ask what is so special about Doxa's for at least double the price? They put themselves in this position, and they have no one to blame but themselves.


----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

CityMorgue said:


> If Doxa releases this with the same exact movement for just over the pricing of the Synchron, then it truly begs the question, how can their other watches be priced so damn high?


I didn't need Synchron's release to ask that question. My Marenez Samui only made me question it even more. I agree with your theory on pricing, they are stuck and can only release it at the Sub 300 level or they piss off their customer base.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

As I said before: I do think that Doxa's communication during this episode was severely suboptimal, and that they would have been better off by simply letting it slide (Maybe they were too frustrated at seeing a golden LE opportunity disappear before their eyes...).

But CityMorgue's rant against Doxa's price policy _in general_ surprises me... I'd be hard pressed to come up with a name of another brand proposing a desirable vintage dive model, on a bracelet, assembled in CH and with a proven CH movement for <2k. The closest comparison I can think of are ZRC, who are more expensive; as are the Radio Captain Cooks or Longines Legend Divers (both admittedly with a more modern movement), which don't have the "outsider appeal".


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## TSH (Aug 3, 2007)

CityMorgue said:


> The biggest reason is the absolutely petty childish response to the Synchron release. Doxa clearly had no plans in place to make this watch and scrambled at the last minute to try to one up the Synchron release. Then to blunder and post a supposed 'vintage' army with different hands, and then just today post another 'prototype' with the same hands that synchron is using and the original army used when it was first released. It's absolutely comical. They were clearly caught off guard, and then were tripping over themselves over it, and are now rightly getting dragged for this ridiculous move on Doxa's part.
> 
> Not to mention, we all know Doxa is in a tough position pricing wise.... The synchron is a high grade ETA 2824 in basically the same case style as a 300, for half the price. If Doxa releases this with the same exact movement for just over the pricing of the Synchron, then it truly begs the question, how can their other watches be priced so damn high? And if they price it at the same as their other offerings, people are going to scoff and ask what is so special about Doxa's for at least double the price? They put themselves in this position, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
> [/QUOTE





CityMorgue said:


> The biggest reason is the absolutely petty childish response to the Synchron release. Doxa clearly had no plans in place to make this watch and scrambled at the last minute to try to one up the Synchron release. Then to blunder and post a supposed 'vintage' army with different hands, and then just today post another 'prototype' with the same hands that synchron is using and the original army used when it was first released. It's absolutely comical. They were clearly caught off guard, and then were tripping over themselves over it, and are now rightly getting dragged for this ridiculous move on Doxa's part.
> 
> Not to mention, we all know Doxa is in a tough position pricing wise.... The synchron is a high grade ETA 2824 in basically the same case style as a 300, for half the price. If Doxa releases this with the same exact movement for just over the pricing of the Synchron, then it truly begs the question, how can their other watches be priced so damn high? And if they price it at the same as their other offerings, people are going to scoff and ask what is so special about Doxa's for at least double the price? They put themselves in this position, and they have no one to blame but themselves.


Elabore grade is not high grade, same as in my doxa sub. But synchron is still half price.


----------



## Ketchup time (Apr 23, 2015)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> The DOXA Army is getting back. Stay tuned.
> 
> View attachment 15757385
> 
> ...


"only the original deserves your trust"?

What does that mean? 
Only buy the original vintage if it can be found?

The army was originally released by Synchron/Doxa(?) so do you mean buy the Synchron rerelease rather then the Jenny/Doxa?

Or, buy the Synchron rerelease because they are the original and first modern release.

Or buy the Synchron because they are original with their handset and you guys are now copying them?

Dazed and confused with obviously too much time on my hands but with a DOXA on my wrist ?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

As someone once said...there is no such thing as bad publicity...I would add..., but there is bad management. Doxa got a sh1tton of free publicity for a watch that they are now scrambling to bring out. Whether you believe that they were going to or not is up to you. They helped sell the Synchron and made themselves look inept. However, it sure did generate a lot of publicity for the Doxa Army and when they get round to releasing one, all the Synchrons will be sold and gone so unless someone else releases another homage (Maranez, Heimdallr etc) the Doxa Army will be the only game in town. They should be thankful that the Synchron exploded the interest in the watch. Now if only they had sat back and though things through instead of turning a crisis into a PR disaster.


----------



## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Something I noticed:

Looking at pretty much every vintage Army's 12 o'clock lume, there's a black notch on the top. Now look at the one doxa put on IG. No notch. Now, it does look like aged tritium, but there are pretty convincing faux-aged lumes out there nowadays, so it's possible it's indeed an actual prototype they have. The handset and dial certainly look new.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Something I noticed:
> 
> Looking at pretty much every vintage Army's 12 o'clock lume, there's a black notch on the top. Now look at the one doxa put on IG. No notch. Now, it does look like aged tritium, but there are pretty convincing faux-aged lumes out there nowadays, so it's possible it's indeed an actual prototype they have. The handset and dial certainly look new.


It's hard to tell but why use a dial that says T- Swiss Made T. The T stood for Tritium which now can't be used unless in a glass vial.


----------



## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

CityMorgue said:


> The biggest reason is the absolutely petty childish response to the Synchron release. Doxa clearly had no plans in place to make this watch and scrambled at the last minute to try to one up the Synchron release. Then to blunder and post a supposed 'vintage' army with different hands, and then just today post another 'prototype' with the same hands that synchron is using and the original army used when it was first released. It's absolutely comical. They were clearly caught off guard, and then were tripping over themselves over it, and are now rightly getting dragged for this ridiculous move on Doxa's part.
> 
> Not to mention, we all know Doxa is in a tough position pricing wise.... The synchron is a high grade ETA 2824 in basically the same case style as a 300, for half the price. If Doxa releases this with the same exact movement for just over the pricing of the Synchron, then it truly begs the question, how can their other watches be priced so damn high? And if they price it at the same as their other offerings, people are going to scoff and ask what is so special about Doxa's for at least double the price? They put themselves in this position, and they have no one to blame but themselves.


Firstly- it seems undisputed that the original was a Doxa.

Doxa therefore has every moral right to feel slightly peeved that someone who used to work for them has set up his own company, having bought a historically associated name, and the 2nd watch it produces is effectively a 'homage' to Doxa.

I'm sure they might feel that was being petty, whereas there were other watches from the Synchron back-catalogue they could have recreated.

However, my personal view is that Synchron are merely acting within the realms of what many a microbrand does - and that's perfectly acceptable.

As for the price, well we don't know what the price will be of the Doxa or what's is specification will be. Doxa does have an international dealer network to support whereas Synchron currently doesn't.

But you could equally point out to some Microbrand divers with a similar spec that cost considerably less than the Synchron. That doesn't make the Synchron a bad watch - and it doesn't mean that people would be right to criticise Synchron for being over priced.

At the end of the day it's for the individual to decide if they think something is worth the money and if they want to buy it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> It's hard to tell but why use a dial that says T- Swiss Made T. The T stood for Tritium which now can't be used unless in a glass vial.


What I'm saying is that I think the first IG they posted was a real vintage model that they put out there as a "teaser", the second might be an actual prototype (which I assume would lack the tritium labeling, but that's conjecture because that part of the dial is not shown).


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

Flyingdoctor said:


> It's hard to tell but why use a dial that says T- Swiss Made T. The T stood for Tritium which now can't be used unless in a glass vial.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of the 300T, didn't the T stand for tritium?

I'm pretty sure my 2020 300T model doesn't have tritium.. In that case I'm sure it's a nod to the models heritage.


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## miniman_78 (Dec 15, 2012)

CityMorgue said:


> This whole drama is fascinating, and Doxa has lost a lot of respect in my eyes


Doxa lost a big part of my respect with the release of the 50th Anniversary SUB300. I noticed suggestions, and comments to it, on what Doxa could bring up for the anniversary had been deleted and/or modded/edited from the forum. This had been denied by them when asked and later the topic with the question was removed.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Actually these are fair comments. Any company would have some level of unease when an homage is released. Heck look at the Gen 2 Maranez Samui. It's a Doxa except the bezel and with a better bracelet. But for me its how it is handled and the Doxa management really needs to look at themselves.

I'm not sure when Synchron was set up but it was some time ago and Rick didn't work for Doxa. He was never a Doxa employee. Actually in a sense Doxa worked for him because they supplied most of the components for the later SUBs.



KAS118 said:


> Firstly- it seems undisputed that the original was a Doxa.
> 
> Doxa therefore has every moral right to feel slightly peeved that someone who used to work for them has set up his own company, having bought a historically associated name, and the 2nd watch it produces is effectively a 'homage' to Doxa.
> 
> ...


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

ross2187 said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of the 300T, didn't the T stand for tritium?
> 
> I'm pretty sure my 2020 300T model doesn't have tritium.. In that case I'm sure it's a nod to the models heritage.


Here's a watch you can buy now - lots of heritage and a similar price to a Doxa Sub (but please note 20% VAT) is included.

You will note it has a 'T' on the dial despite the lume not being tritium









1980 CWC ROYAL NAVY DIVER


1980 Royal Navy Divers Reissue. This is the watch that replaced the Rolex Milsub in 1980. Issued for 2 years before the CWC quartz divers watch was issued.




www.cwcwatch.com





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

ross2187 said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of the 300T, didn't the T stand for tritium?
> 
> I'm pretty sure my 2020 300T model doesn't have tritium.. In that case I'm sure it's a nod to the models heritage.


Nope the T in 300T etc stood for Taucher which means Diver in German


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

miniman_78 said:


> Doxa lost a big part of my respect with the release of the 50th Anniversary SUB300. I noticed suggestions, and comments to it, on what Doxa could bring up for the anniversary had been deleted and/or modded from the forum. This had been denied by them when asked and later the topic with the question was removed.


Yes, I do remember commenting on some of their facebooks posts when the carbon was announced and other such posts, and I always noticed tons of comments getting deleted that were critical. Not just by me, but many people. It's a terrible look, and around that time is when my respect for the company started to slide really quick, and this latest stunt is just another example of how quickly things can go south.


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## miniman_78 (Dec 15, 2012)

CityMorgue said:


> Yes, I do remember commenting on some of their facebooks posts when the carbon was announced and other such posts, and I always noticed tons of comments getting deleted that were critical. Not just by me, but many people. It's a terrible look, and around that time is when my respect for the company started to slide really quick, and this latest stunt is just another example of how quickly things can go south.


Over half of the posts in the 2014 'What's next for Doxa' have been deleted or edited prior to the 2016 release.. Not for criticism but there where details found back in the 50th Anniversary


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## GraniteQuarry (Feb 13, 2006)

Controversial! Both the imitator and the response.

Doxa, stop messing around on social media and concentrate on getting the product right and to market - build it and they will come!


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## daveyoha (Jan 22, 2016)

TSH said:


> Too funny:
> View attachment 15760018


Things get spicy and commenting on the post comes down. 😂


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

daveyoha said:


> Things get spicy and commenting on the post comes down. 😂


Where was that screenshot from? I'm guessing some sort of social media, FB or IG? Can anyone view the thread or do you have to have an account?


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## daveyoha (Jan 22, 2016)

Watchout63 said:


> Where was that screenshot from? I'm guessing some sort of social media, FB or IG? Can anyone view the thread or do you have to have an account?


 It was a screenshot of comments back and forth with a Doxa moderator on the latest instagram post from Doxa. However they have since taken down commenting on the post. Removes any comments made and no new commenting allowed. Kind of a a pull your collar and cringe or just have a good laugh kind of moment.


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## devmartin (Nov 27, 2017)

daveyoha said:


> It was a screenshot of comments back and forth with a Doxa moderator on the latest instagram post from Doxa. However they have since taken down commenting on the post. Removes any comments made and no new commenting allowed. Kind of a a pull your collar and cringe or just have a good laugh kind of moment.


Are you sure about that I just posted something on the Instagram post?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Emeister (Jan 24, 2011)

"Only the original deserves your trust" - also available in a variety of pastel hues!

Ian
Repeat Doxa customer


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

ross2187 said:


> I agree. But, it's something to ponder at the least. _passes a friendly beer_


Don't forget that back in the day, when you sent your watch in for servicing, changes were made without owner consultation. I've heard of dial changes many a time. You have a mark on your dial you recognize, or the lume has started to turn creamy, you send it in for service, and get your watch back with a new dial. Your mark is gone and the lume is no longer creamy coloured. Not at all surprised if hands on the Army shown were changed via servicing. Maybe the hands were damaged or lost, and the result is from a restoration. I've restored some pretty beat Subs myself, some of which were missing hands. Every ad I have seen, and there have been a couple more than the one I found, show the watch with non-standard Sub hands but those that Rick is using on his Military.


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

Formula1980 said:


> Don't forget that back in the day, when you sent your watch in for servicing, changes were made without owner consultation. I've heard of dial changes many a time. You have a mark on your dial you recognize, or the lume has started to turn creamy, you send it in for service, and get your watch back with a new dial. Your mark is gone and the lume is no longer creamy coloured. Not at all surprised if hands on the Army shown were changed via servicing. Maybe the hands were damaged or lost, and the result is from a restoration. I've restored some pretty beat Subs myself, some of which were missing hands. Every ad I have seen, and there have been a couple more than the one I found, show the watch with non-standard Sub hands but those that Rick is using on his Military.


Service dials, hands, bezels have been going on for years with the likes of Rolex/ Tudor. Honestly don't offend me as it's still in house.


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## giorgos mg (Oct 13, 2008)

I have a feeling that Doxa & Synchron are reading us while eating popcorn....


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

ross2187 said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of the 300T, didn't the T stand for tritium?
> 
> I'm pretty sure my 2020 300T model doesn't have tritium.. In that case I'm sure it's a nod to the models heritage.


The "T" on all modern Subs (Marei era to present) stands for Taucher, Deutsch for Diver. You are correct with the vintage "T" for tiritum.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Formula1980 said:


> The "T" on all modern Subs (Marei era to present) stands for Taucher, Deutsch for Diver. You are correct with the vintage "T" for tiritum.


Absolutely correct. When they had to stop using Tritium they couldn't just drop the T in 300T so Taucher it was.


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## Brey17 (Mar 29, 2016)

Trying to put myself in issues of people who just bought this military watch. This watch is about to get overshadowed by what Doxa is about to put out. I can see the upcoming non-stop annoyance of having to explain why they feel it’s not a homage watch. A new WUS debate is born.


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

ross2187 said:


> Service dials, hands, bezels have been going on for years with the likes of Rolex/ Tudor. Honestly don't offend me as it's still in house.


OK..in house. Not sure about you, but I'd be pretty miffed if I sent my Army in for servicing and they changed the hands to standard sub (second hand in the pic isn't standard either) without letting me know. Something tells me that they don't swap your hands and send the originals back with your serviced watch so you or some one else can pretty them up again for future use. For someone like myself, I could care less about in house, I would want to preserve original aesthetics. As someone who restores, sometimes you have to get creative, and you take what you can get. I don't doubt the legitimacy of the seeing a vintage Army with more standard Sub hands. It's a few years older than I am, so who knows what that watch experienced?

I think back to when the Doc wrote the 40 Yr Doxa book. The Army had been unheard of until someone flashed him a pic while he was nearing the book's completion. Same goes for the Conquistador. A handful were known to exist when the book came out. Since then, a few more have surfaced. Until more Army's surface, we won't exactly know the entire story or options available during time of original purchase.


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## Ketchup time (Apr 23, 2015)

Brey17 said:


> Trying to put myself in issues of people who just bought this military watch. This watch is about to get overshadowed by what Doxa is about to put out. I can see the upcoming non-stop annoyance of having to explain why they feel it's not a homage watch. A new WUS debate is born.


I think most people who are into the niche DOXA brand have an understanding of past relationships with Aqualung, Synchron, Cousteau, Aubry, Marei, Jenny, etc. 
So don't think there is any debate other then someone enjoys their watch.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

lab-guy said:


> Jenny owns Walca. Assembly done in Switzerland, I was told by US Doxa back in the day


So there is no real difference between todays Doxas other than who is selling them - still made by the same place.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Has anyone got a closeup photo of the Synchron dial?

The reason I asked is that looking at the Doxa - it seems to have applied raised edges at each of the indices - that I personally think is very attractive and gives a bit of depth to the dial.

I can't really tell from the Sycnhron website if it has the same?


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## charger02 (Apr 28, 2011)

Can anyone shed light on how long it takes to bring a product to market to include shipping and maintenance parts for down the road?

It seems like from the comments that people expect Doxa to turn out a new model relatively quickly. Which seems like wishful thinking unless they already had the “Army” nearing completion. I get that cases and crystals may be the same but dials, hands, and (maybe) movements have to be made or sourced. And that’s just the bigger items. 

I feel like if Doxa is starting from ground zero it will be a while before their product is ready and inertia and momentum (which translates to capital) will have been lost.

What do I know about watch manufacturing though? Purely speculative on my part. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Serge Panchenko (Mar 30, 2014)

In the microbrand world getting a prototype made takes 2-3 months. But, if Doxa uses a case from another Sub and only need a dial and hands, it would be much faster to get a prototype made especially since they are a larger company and can pull some strings.



charger02 said:


> Can anyone shed light on how long it takes to bring a product to market to include shipping and maintenance parts for down the road?
> 
> It seems like from the comments that people expect Doxa to turn out a new model relatively quickly. Which seems like wishful thinking unless they already had the "Army" nearing completion. I get that cases and crystals may be the same but dials, hands, and (maybe) movements have to be made or sourced. And that's just the bigger items.
> 
> ...


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## miniman_78 (Dec 15, 2012)

KAS118 said:


> Has anyone got a closeup photo of the Synchron dial?
> 
> The reason I asked is that looking at the Doxa - it seems to have applied raised edges at each of the indices - that I personally think is very attractive and gives a bit of depth to the dial.
> 
> ...


It look like the Synchron doesn't has applied raised edges.









And looking at some pics of the original vintage Doxa Army it looks like some had the raised edges.

















While on others it looks like the edges are painted on.


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

8505davids said:


> So there is no real difference between todays Doxas other than who is selling them - still made by the same place.


If you are referring to the last 15 or so years (let's call it the revival period for conversation sake), I believe that is a correct statement.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

miniman_78 said:


> It look like the Synchron doesn't has applied raised edges.
> View attachment 15761420
> 
> 
> ...


Doxa's dial looks much nicer if I'm being honest.


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## MichaelKG (Apr 18, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> you need to sack the idiots in the marketing department and try and act like a cohesive company that knows what it is doing.


You think the person in the marketing department is the one responsible? Easy to blame them when you need to look at the person giving them these instructions.

If you call the company disjointed, it starts at the top. As it always does.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

MichaelKG said:


> You think the person in the marketing department is the one responsible? Easy to blame them when you need to look at the person giving them these instructions.
> 
> If you call the company disjointed, it starts at the top. As it always does.


Michael, thanks for that, I was trying to be diplomatic which is unusual for me. There really isn't a marketing department. All the mistakes Doxa has made over the last year or so: SUB hands, bracelet end links, reusing the 1200T case with the dodgy HEV placement, The Crap-Graph, sorry C-Graph and this latest Army fiasco all come down to the CEO, Jan Edocs. He has also tried to claim that he brought back Doxa. If the Jenny's had any sense he would be out the door, but they can't. He is singlehandedly destroying the brand.


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## Ketchup time (Apr 23, 2015)

But.....
The C-graph (which shouldn’t even be called a sub IMO) is available in all the colours of the rainbow! lol

Synchron has been active on their thread, where’s DOXA on this thread?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Ketchup time said:


> But.....
> The C-graph (which shouldn't even be called a sub IMO) is available in all the colours of the rainbow! lol


Except it isn't because they haven't sold any.

Yea and he was also behind this monstrosity at Milus


----------



## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

Ketchup time said:


> But.....
> The C-graph (which shouldn't even be called a sub IMO) is available in all the colours of the rainbow! lol
> 
> Synchron has been active on their thread, where's DOXA on this thread?


Where is the Synchron thread?


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Forsythjones said:


> Where is the Synchron thread?











New Synchron Military


I literally never get in on deals like this and seeing the first insta shot confirms that I really lucked out. I am still waiting on shipping info but I am really looking forward to seeing other pics or vids on YouTube that provided a profile shot. Over all I think this is a very unique and...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

Watchout63 said:


> New Synchron Military
> 
> 
> I literally never get in on deals like this and seeing the first insta shot confirms that I really lucked out. I am still waiting on shipping info but I am really looking forward to seeing other pics or vids on YouTube that provided a profile shot. Over all I think this is a very unique and...
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## gak (Jan 17, 2014)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> The DOXA Army is getting back. Stay tuned.
> 
> View attachment 15757385
> 
> ...


Tuning in to Doxa 1889 for this beauty. Stay put and please make sure that bracelet comes as an options too  ?


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## daveyoha (Jan 22, 2016)

devmartin said:


> Are you sure about that I just posted something on the Instagram post?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Oh wow you're right! Perhaps when I looked at it, comments where hidden for some reason? There certainly are a lot of algorthms in beta sneaking around instagram. Also a reasonable chance this was user error from your boy. Good catch and call out.


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Doxa's dial looks much nicer if I'm being honest.


Agree 100%, fauxtina on the Synchron is a dealbreaker for me. If the bezel and dial accents had been white on the DLC Synchron I would have ordered it. Curious to see what Doxa comes up with.


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## uvalaw2005 (May 27, 2009)

jcombs1 said:


> Agree 100%, fauxtina on the Synchron is a dealbreaker for me. If the bezel and dial accents had been white on the DLC Synchron I would have ordered it. Curious to see what Doxa comes up with.


If the dial posted on the Doxa IG is really a prototype, it looks like they went the fauxtina route as well.


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

uvalaw2005 said:


> If the dial posted on the Doxa IG is really a prototype, it looks like they went the fauxtina route as well.


That would save me a significant amount of money that I could spend on a new Speedmaster, so a win either way.


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## Ayreonaut (Jan 22, 2011)

Ketchup time said:


> I think most people who are into the niche DOXA brand have an understanding of past relationships with Aqualung, Synchron, Cousteau, Aubry, Marei, Jenny, etc.
> So don't think there is any debate other then someone enjoys their watch.


I'm new to this topic, care to share some links to the saga?


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## Brey17 (Mar 29, 2016)

Ayreonaut said:


> I'm new to this topic, care to share some links to the saga?


Basically, a guy named Rick Marei has a cult following because of his contributions working for Doxa (or maybe as some here assert, Doxa the company actually worked for him). Doxa got rid of him, and it wasn't an amicable parting evidently. Many here hate the ownership direction of Doxa, and now Rick works or owns this different competing brand. So his followers are pleased that he took the project that he was working on at Doxa and now released it with the new company brand name... something to that effect. I am sure others can correct any misspeak.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

As an executive summary that's pretty good. Nice 



Brey17 said:


> Basically, a guy named Rick Marei has a cult following because of his contributions working for Doxa (or maybe as some here assert, Doxa the company actually worked for him). Doxa got rid of him, and it wasn't an amicable parting evidently. Many here hate the ownership direction of Doxa, and now Rick works or owns this different competing brand. So his followers are pleased that he took the project that he was working on at Doxa and now released it with the new company brand name... something to that effect. I am sure others can correct any misspeak.


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## ds760476 (Nov 7, 2011)

Brey17 said:


> Basically, a guy named Rick Marei has a cult following because of his contributions working for Doxa (or maybe as some here assert, Doxa the company actually worked for him). Doxa got rid of him, and it wasn't an amicable parting evidently. Many here hate the ownership direction of Doxa, and now Rick works or owns this different competing brand. So his followers are pleased that he took the project that he was working on at Doxa and now released it with the new company brand name... something to that effect. I am sure others can correct any misspeak.


Nailed it, and that's why I bought the Synchron rather than wait for a DOXA (despite having happily owned several in the past).


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

At some point we (the Royal we, the watch community at larger) need to abandon the notion of "fauxtina" and just accept it is simply another color on the designer's palette.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Brey17 said:


> Basically, a guy named Rick Marei has a cult following because of his contributions working for Doxa (or maybe as some here assert, Doxa the company actually worked for him). Doxa got rid of him, and it wasn't an amicable parting evidently. Many here hate the ownership direction of Doxa, and now Rick works or owns this different competing brand. So his followers are pleased that he took the project that he was working on at Doxa and now released it with the new company brand name... something to that effect. I am sure others can correct any misspeak.


Just trying to clear up any misconception here. basically you are correct. Rick never worked for Doxa. He started marketing and selling the Doxa SUBs through his Synchron organisation. Every SUB between 2000 and 2018 except the 4000T were ideas brought by Rick to the Jennys and they manufactured the watches through their subsiduary: Walca. Rick actually brought the idea of releasing the Army to Doxa. The idea of the army is almost 20 years old, it was among the first pieces suggested to the Jennys. Probably not a surprise to anyone but the Jenny family like many people had very little idea about the history of Doxa until Rick resurrected the brand and it grew to what it is today. I'd like to think they got most of the information they know now from reading my books


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## hannibal smith (Feb 13, 2020)

mitchjrj said:


> At some point we (the Royal we, the watch community at larger) need to abandon the notion of "fauxtina" and just accept it is simply another color on the designer's palette.


 I can't. I was mere seconds away from clicking "buy" on an Omega 300, but just couldn't muster the courage because of the fake aged lume. A brand new watch needs "brand new" elements. I have plenty of watches that are aged because I wore them for years. My scratches, dents, and faded bezels/lume are honest!


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Brey17 said:


> Basically, a guy named Rick Marei has a cult following because of his contributions working for Doxa (or maybe as some here assert, Doxa the company actually worked for him). Doxa got rid of him, and it wasn't an amicable parting evidently. Many here hate the ownership direction of Doxa, and now Rick works or owns this different competing brand. So his followers are pleased that he took the project that he was working on at Doxa and now released it with the new company brand name... something to that effect. I am sure others can correct any misspeak.


You are, essentially correct. Rick Marei was a DOXA collector. He visited the Jenny's in Biel/Bienne ostensibly to purchase/procure spare parts, and pitched them the idea of bringing back the SUB. One important point that gets glossed over is who paid for what - Rick worked with Peter Jenny (who briefly worked for the family company before starting a clothing boutique) and the result was the two first reissues. And as far as I understand it, Rick paid for those pieces. Rick was never actually an employee of DOXA, he had the license to market and sell the DOXA SUB, and he ended up financially on the hook for a lot of the production - i.e. buying the product from the Walca via the Jennys and selling it as the license holder for the DOXA SUB. During my three year (direct employment) and later (freelance project) association with Rick, he was the one who created and paid for marketing for the SUB.


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

mitchjrj said:


> At some point we (the Royal we, the watch community at larger) need to abandon the notion of "fauxtina" and just accept it is simply another color on the designer's palette.


I've tried and I can't. I despise it altogether, reminds me of the recent steampunk stuff - artificially aged, poser BS. I've passed on a lot of nice watches because of it, I hope you're wrong and the trend is fading (see what i did there).


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

mitchjrj said:


> At some point we (the Royal we, the watch community at larger) need to abandon the notion of "fauxtina" and just accept it is simply another color on the designer's palette.


Yea I can't get behind this either. It's like buying a new car with a dent in it. I'll put my own dents in, thanks.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Henki said:


> You are, essentially correct. Rick Marei was a DOXA collector. He visited the Jenny's in Biel/Bienne ostensibly to purchase/procure spare parts, and pitched them the idea of bringing back the SUB. One important point that gets glossed over is who paid for what - Rick worked with Peter Jenny (who briefly worked for the family company before starting a clothing boutique) and the result was the two first reissues. And as far as I understand it, Rick paid for those pieces. Rick was never actually an employee of DOXA, he had the license to market and sell the DOXA SUB, and he ended up financially on the hook for a lot of the production - i.e. buying the product from the Walca via the Jennys and selling it as the license holder for the DOXA SUB. During my three year (direct employment) and later (freelance project) association with Rick, he was the one who created and paid for marketing for the SUB.


Always on a sticky wicket when you build up a product name which somebody else owns .....the Jenny family certainly seem to be milking the Doxa name and its current market recognition for all they can price wise - recent releases a bit questionable too. I take it Synchron is Mr M's company and brand name?


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

8505davids said:


> Always on a sticky wicket when you build up a product name which somebody else owns .....the Jenny family certainly seem to be milking the Doxa name and its current market recognition for all they can price wise - recent releases a bit questionable too. I take it Synchron is Mr M's company and brand name?


Yes, that is correct. As with many entrepreneurs, he picked up the Synchron name and it is his now. Synchron was actually a group, but my guess is that as he owns the name, he can use it as he wishes, and in this instance is using it as a brand for smaller projects and as a group. Synchron USA was the official US distributor for the DOXA SUB.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Henki said:


> You are, essentially correct. Rick Marei was a DOXA collector. He visited the Jenny's in Biel/Bienne ostensibly to purchase/procure spare parts, and pitched them the idea of bringing back the SUB. One important point that gets glossed over is who paid for what - Rick worked with Peter Jenny (who briefly worked for the family company before starting a clothing boutique) and the result was the two first reissues. And as far as I understand it, Rick paid for those pieces. Rick was never actually an employee of DOXA, he had the license to market and sell the DOXA SUB, and he ended up financially on the hook for a lot of the production - i.e. buying the product from the Walca via the Jennys and selling it as the license holder for the DOXA SUB. During my three year (direct employment) and later (freelance project) association with Rick, he was the one who created and paid for marketing for the SUB.


Out of interest how does the other part of Doxa fit in? This part (its a genuine question by the way - I'm never clear why they don't sell Subs as well as the others). Watchfinder - Official DOXA (Asia) Website


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## orangeface (Feb 9, 2006)

Interesting. There’s already a Synchron Army being flipped from the UK on the ‘bay. Prompt speculator or dissatisfied WIS?


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

orangeface said:


> Interesting. There's already a Synchron Army being flipped from the UK on the 'bay. Prompt speculator or dissatisfied WIS?


I believe he admits he hasn't even received the watch yet - so definitely a 'Prompt Speculator'.

Shame for all the enthusiasts who wanted to Stainless Steel version but they had already been sold out.


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

orangeface said:


> Interesting. There's already a Synchron Army being flipped from the UK on the 'bay. Prompt speculator or dissatisfied WIS?


The fact he wants 2k for a ~£900 watch is almost laughable... I mean what does he think he's selling, a PS5?!?


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Anders_Flint said:


> The fact he wants 2k for a ~£900 watch is almost laughable... I mean what does he think he's selling, a PS5?!?


Quick boot in the balls required

On another note the more I think about the Army the less sure I am that it would be a worthwhile regular unlimited model for Doxa. Getting over the excitement of the surprise Synchron release , reality tells me (IMO) that checker dial has a bit of a limited appeal - even the original wasn't that popular and cushion cases themselves are a limited market - (I love 'em personally). The Sub dials have far wider appeal and much more attractive (I'm not knocking those that like it just talking generally - I have one or two fairly funky dials in my collection) A limited edition like Synchron was perhaps the best move to satisfy those that like it and still leave enough demand to retain their value. Enough buyers for an ongoing model? Would a 200 dial in that case and bezel have wider appeal ... probably not


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Anders_Flint said:


> The fact he wants 2k for a ~£900 watch is almost laughable... I mean what does he think he's selling, a PS5?!?


Not defending them but it will be substantially more to the U.K. by the time Brexit has its way. That's why I passed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Pegasus said:


> Not defending them but it will be substantially more to the U.K. by the time Brexit has its way. That's why I passed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe its 20% VAT you have to pay - plus the courier's handling fees - so if its $990 at todays exchange rate that's about £725 + 20% = £870 and then say postage and admin fees for the courier say £30 so say £900 all done.

So he's having a laugh selling it for £2k - especially if someone bites.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

KAS118 said:


> I believe its 20% VAT you have to pay - plus the courier's handling fees - so if its $990 at todays exchange rate that's about £725 + 20% = £870 and then say postage and admin fees for the courier say £30 so say £900 all done.
> 
> So he's having a laugh selling it for £2k - especially if someone bites.


Anything over £135 is subject to customs charges also, can be up to 40%.

That's if it gets through, lots just sitting and getting sent back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Pegasus said:


> Anything over £135 is subject to customs charges also, can be up to 40%.
> 
> That's if it gets through, lots just sitting and getting sent back.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is the only thing other than VAT you'd have to pay on it is £0.20 per item. However. the courier can, and will, charge a handling fee:






Wristwatches, pocket-watches and other watches, including stopwatches, other than those of heading 9101 - UK Integrated Online Tariff - GOV.UK


Wristwatches, pocket-watches and other watches, including stopwatches, other than those of heading 9101




www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

It worked out for me £758 for the watch and £138 duty should get mine tomorrow


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I got lucky recently - bought three watches (two from EU and one from Canada) and no VAT/duty paid on any of them, all just arrived (all had the proper declarations as well)


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

8505davids said:


> I got lucky recently - bought three watches (two from EU and one from Canada) and no VAT/duty paid on any of them, all just arrived (all had the proper declarations as well)


Depending on the carrier they might send you a bill afterwards..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

I got the Synchron military today, first impressions very nice
dial and hands looks fantastic, case is very nice
one thing the bezel action is ok but has a cheaper feel compared to doxa


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

MadsNilsson said:


> Depending on the carrier they might send you a bill afterwards..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will just have to wait and see - any other time I've had to pay up before the item is released.


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

Looking forward to seeing more strap pairings as these get into the wild.


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## sless711 (Jan 27, 2021)

Monkeynuts said:


> I got the Synchron military today, first impressions very nice
> dial and hands looks fantastic, case is very nice
> one thing the bezel action is ok but has a cheaper feel compared to doxa
> View attachment 15775762


Congrats on your SM! Patiently waiting shipping confirmation for the SS. Is your edition over/under 125/250?


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

sless711 said:


> Congrats on your SM! Patiently waiting shipping confirmation for the SS. Is your edition over/under 125/250?


mine is 19 but can't be number to order as I ordered mine the morning after ,
also I never had any emails on order or shipping


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Whatever happened to the Doxa Army? 


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Whatever happened to the Doxa Army?


They lost the war to a more _agile_ army?


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Loevhagen said:


> They lost the war to a more _agile_ army?


Well played sir

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Whatever happened to the Doxa Army?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We won't see anything about it for quite a while because they had nothing to begin with. Unlike every other release where they had them ready to go as soon as they announced them. This was a pure knee jerk reaction to synchron. We obviously will see one, but it'll be a bit.


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## charger02 (Apr 28, 2011)

We will obviously see one? Why should Doxa compete with a model and play catch up especially when they just released their new line. No matter what happens, if they do release a Doxa Army they will always be compared and end up losing out unless they make a higher quality product at a price point that is more accessible than the Synchron model.....and that seems like a losing position from my vantage point.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Well I think from the macro shot they posted of the dial - they certainly have something already prepared - but its just not clear how far away it is from being revealed officially.

To me the dial did look more detailed - so they could produce that, with say a 'Top' or 'COSC' movement and a metal bracelet - and justify a higher price point.

The problem is - how much higher?

The Synchron was basically $1,000; the current Sub300, with COSC is about $2,500 with a bracelet; so you can't see the Doxa Army being cheaper than that - and probably more like $3,000.

All speculation of course - but it will be interesting to see.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

charger02 said:


> We will obviously see one? Why should Doxa compete with a model and play catch up especially when they just released their new line. No matter what happens, if they do release a Doxa Army they will always be compared and end up losing out unless they make a higher quality product at a price point that is more accessible than the Synchron model.....and that seems like a losing position from my vantage point.


I do believe we will see something eventually get released. There is no way Doxa is going to be able to get away with teasing the Army, to then just let it slip back into the vault. Yes, Synchron got the jump on them with a very affordable watch. I'm not sure how much more quality you can get compared to the synchron though. I mean the packaging is already better with the aluminum tube coming back.



KAS118 said:


> Well I think from the macro shot they posted of the dial - they certainly have something already prepared - but its just not clear how far away it is from being revealed officially.
> 
> To me the dial did look more detailed - so they could produce that, with say a 'Top' or 'COSC' movement and a metal bracelet - and justify a higher price point.
> 
> ...


I'm still iffy on the picture. It could either be a really good render, or a legit production. The longer Doxa waits, the more I will have believed that the dial is just a mock up, and they are working hard to get a prototype out there.

As far as price, I'm inclined to take a guess that it might be around the Sub300 pricing at $2500-$3000. They will find a way to justify the PVD coating as a more costly thing.

I think a more realistic price that Doxa should/could aim for would be the $1500-$2000 range, or comparable to the 300T. If they get it around that, it would be a pretty damn good deal, and would fly off the shelves. And IMO, Doxa should just stick with the 1 dial variant, and maybe make it a limited edition as well. It would be an instant hit.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Can someone from @Doxa Watches Official comment on the Doxa Army?


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## Tanjecterly (Mar 13, 2013)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Can someone from @Doxa Watches Official comment on the Doxa Army?


It's real and it's spectacular.

What else are they going to say?


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Tanjecterly said:


> It's real and it's spectacular.
> 
> What else are they going to say?


I want to hear them say something other than treating this forum as a marketing hotspot

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hannibal smith (Feb 13, 2020)

What is the hottest accessory for the Synchron Military? A BOR bracelet.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Shouldn't be too onerous - just use the 300T with a new dial and handset as an updated Army, doesnt need to be an exact replica surely and add the cost of a whole new case. I'd agree with the limited edition but I do think they should do the colours (even one edition at a time) to offer something different from the Synchron - as I said before, the dial is a bit of an acquired taste and unlikely to have the ongoing demand the normal sub dials have. An annual LE, a different colour each year, might be the way to go IMO. What they do price wise will be interesting - if recent things are anything to go by it'll be high. Same price as the 300T and it will do well enough.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

So here's my take on it.

The Army should / would have been released in the Marei era. It was one that Rick wanted to release since the beginning. However, someone within Jenny probably thought it was not a good watch to release. I can see this for a number of reasons. It used a traditional Synchron SUB case but that's it. It doesn't look like a SUB. It is virtually unknown outside a few collectors and probably there is no desire for it. I think we could all buy into this scenario.

Synchron release the military right out of the blue. Doxa who were preparing for the big reveal of Watches of Switzerland distribution channel and the multicoloured "Jelly Bean" Carbon were caught completely off guard, like just about everyone else. Their response was most likely: (1) We need to respond to this and (2) Someone call the lawyers  

The response was pretty poor. "Trust the original" and a series of badly done mockups and the lawyers most likely said "it doesn't say Doxa anywhere on the watch so you can't do anything but we can send them something threatening if you like but probably not worth it as it looks like the darned watches are selling faster than anyone expected and will be sold out by the time we draft something and charge you a fortune.

So this bit is totally my belief based on nothing but gut feeling. Due to the Covid malarkey I'd guess that even if the Doxa management turned up to an office everyday in the past and there was a real team of people all in one location where they had, design, sample generation, testing etc (I doubt this but...) with the Covid situation all of them worked at home. I also think it unlikely that any of the group had access to a real vintage Army and even less likely it was in absolute pristine condition.

At no time during the Marei era did Doxa make a watch with the same case specifications as the Synchron 300T on which the Army case is based. So someone was tasked with mocking up a new Army. The first attempt used standard SUB hands and it was claimed to be a prototype, one of several which used those hands. Can't remember if they said it was a vintage prototype. If they did then I clam total BS. This was quickly ridiculed and a new closer version was produced. This did show some differences to the dial from the Synchron Military so I expect when the Doxa Army is finally released it will have these differentiators.

So where are we now? The heat is off Doxa to produce an Army quickly and I would tell them to take their time. All the Synchron watches are sold. Other manufactures will have seen the unprecedented speed of sales and be looking at bringing out their version. That's what they do. I'd guess one if not two within a month or so. They will be even cheaper than the Synchron and most likely use a Seiko NH35 movement. How will they be in terms of look, feel, quality etc? Remains to be seen. If anyone does produce a version, these won't worry Doxa either.

Doxa has one advantage over everyone including the Synchron Military which was a complete knock it out of the park in terms of quality and price and had the advantage that the Maranez Samui BOR bracelet fit. And that is where luck, chance, fortune etc plays a part. I had just bought the Samui to review it and had a Military prototype case and on a whim thought about trying the bracelet to see if it would fit. It did, I posted a picture and the rest is history.

And what is the advantage that Doxa has? The name DOXA. No matter how good any homage watch is, it will never be a Doxa and for many people that is what matters. The Doxa Army will say Doxa on it and probably 15 examples of the Jenny fish. Please no!!!! Jan, Romeo, I beg you, not on this one. Keep it clean and exactly like the original in terms of branding. PLEASE!!!!!!!!

The next thing that will come into play will be price. That's a tough one because the Synchron Military at $1,000 was almost an impulse buy price. Could Doxa compete with that. Yea, sure they could. Will they? Probably very unlikely. I don't think "Stack em high, sell em cheap" will happen. The price will reflect the Doxa name and exact reproduction of the original but what it will be is anyone's guess.

I'm sure now that the kerfuffle has died down, Doxa will be standing back, thinking things through and coming up with something that they want people to say: "the Synchron Military was good but the Doxa Army is the real deal".

Like most people here, I'm looking forward to seeing it.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Much rather Doxa take their time and get it right than rush out an Army half assed.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Totally agree, and there really isn't any reason for them to rush.



NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Much rather Doxa take their time and get it right than rush out an Army half assed.


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## hannibal smith (Feb 13, 2020)

The Synchron Military is an anomaly. 

By using the Synchron name, this watch falls into a unique category that appeals to the aficionado for reasons more complicated than the sum of it's parts or appearance. This watch was expressly designed for the enthusiast and not the general public it seems. 

Doxa Sub series of watches are both unique and historic. The Doxa pricing puts them past the "affordable" tier but stays within the "attainable" tier. They are just expensive enough to require some deliberation on the buyer. I am talking the average working man here. Many times there are questions regarding value/price, and that kind of consideration falls into the category of watches that exceed the "affordable" threshold, but not by a huge margin. I think that Doxa pricing is great actually, as it eliminates impulse buys, and puts the brand into a more obscure and exclusive bracket. It requires a more committed act to purchase one, and we Doxa owner's wouldn't want it any other way. 

The Synchron is a Doxa for under a thousand bucks!  I almost purchased one, but just couldn't justify it as I already had a Doxa that I absolutely love. With a straight face, the enthusiast could convince himself and fellow enthusiasts that in a roundabout way the Synchron is legitimate (it's legitimate by any modern definition) historically and not a "copy". It has instant credibility in a sense. It became a hit because it had entered an exciting realm that went way past the sum of it's parts....................Just like the Doxa Sub.

If Doxa doesn't come out with an Army, it's of no consequence at the end of the day. The flap was over as soon as the Last Synchron was sold.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

*The Synchron Military is an anomaly.*

I would agree and even though it may have been designed to appeal to the enthusiast, I think a whole bunch of "general pubic" bought it including some who looked at it as a quick couple of bucks profit, flipper.

*I think that Doxa pricing is great actually, as it eliminates impulse buys, and puts the brand into a more obscure and exclusive bracket. It requires a more committed act to purchase one, and we Doxa owner's wouldn't want it any other way.*

Maybe that's how I used to feel because it was kinda our secret but now I feel if they were cheaper more people including me would buy them and more of them*  *

Doxa has long gone past the time when they need Cussler and Dirk Pitt to keep the name alive. They can now trade on the Doxa name and many people will know who they are.

*If Doxa doesn't come out with an Army, it's of no consequence at the end of the day.*

This I differ from. I think if Doxa don't come out with an Army they forever leave themselves open to the criticism that someone else did it for them. There's a pride thing involved now. Doxa will come out with something better. Well, that remains to be seen, but I'm sure that's what they want.

For some people it won't matter if they do or don't. They bought the Synchron. It's unique and limited in its own right and they wanted the look and style but couldn't care for the Doxa name.

Here's where I am coming from. I used to own an Omega Seamaster 2254 with the Seamaster bracelet, not Speedmaster style. Loved it but grew tired of it and sold it. Regretted it. Considered buying another years later but now I'm very reluctant to pay the price and basically won't. I want the look not the name. I made this watch. It's a mashup of the old and new Seamaster look. Needed a bit of modification to the movement holder and spacer but turned out great. I call it the PeteMaster  Total cost about 120 bucks. Gives me everything I want without Omega on the dial and the price associated with it. I think many people looked at the Military in the same light, compounded by the fact that there wasn't a Doxa version available. I guess the proof in the pudding will be if Doxa make one and Synchron owners sell the Military to buy the Army.












hannibal smith said:


> The Synchron Military is an anomaly.
> 
> By using the Synchron name, this watch falls into a unique category that appeals to the aficionado for reasons more complicated than the sum of it's parts or appearance. This watch was expressly designed for the enthusiast and not the general public it seems.
> 
> ...


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## mangotti (Feb 9, 2006)

I think doxa pulled an all nighter to create the army prototype dial they showed the morning after the Synchron public release


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Will be interesting to see how the Synchron is regarded once/if a Doxa Army comes out at a sensible price. Sure it came out of the blue, in very limited numbers at a great price, with the Synchron/Doxa connection and was very exciting for that - (I nearly got caught up in the whole thing and almost pressed the buy button and I don't like the dial!) but in the sober light of day now its gone, it is a homage. If Synchron came out with their own Sub line it might help long term, but if not it'll be forgotten quick enough. As has been said, Synchron can't make any more now so Doxa can take their time and judge likely demand as there won't be any competition to a new Army.


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## wiesi1989 (Sep 13, 2019)

I think a new Synchron Sub Line would be incredible. I´d love to see a professional or sharkhunter, or a divingstar poseidon with the old fonts and logos of Synchron on it. And I don´t think that "professional" or "sharkhunter" are trademarked.

Altogether with the new Synchron Case and on a BOR and under 2k - I think they will sell out as fast as you can even spell the name Doxa.

So I keep saving money, Rick is a genius and only he knows whats coming next. If there is no Synchron Sub Line - I will keep moving on with seeking the ultimate trilogy, every Aqualung Edition of the SUB300 50th. I already own one of the rarest - the silverlung. But Professional and Sharkhunter Aqualung will be hard to find...


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

If Doxa can match the quality of the synchron at a reasonable price, even I would buy another one with the Doxa name on it.

The Synchron military black is a banger of a watch!


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Rough idea of how a 'Divingstar' Army dial might look...also in orange, blue etc - prefer the colours to the Army's checker dial!


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

WHERE IS THE ARMY DOXA, my wallet yearns for you.. ohhh Doxa 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

reluctantsnowman said:


> WHERE IS THE ARMY DOXA, my wallet yearns for you.. ohhh Doxa
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fine I'll play this game.. am going to post ever so often

@DoxaWatchesOfficial - when are you planning to release the army

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## djgallo (Feb 20, 2006)

Ludi said:


> Synchron design superior, definitely


Don't think so .....with the crown sticking out so far on the Synchron. For a tool watch I see this crown as being vulnerable....so looks to me like Synchron is also doing a rush job on their model.

Let's see what Doxa finally ends up designing....I'm not rushing to buy


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## djgallo (Feb 20, 2006)

uvalaw2005 said:


> Heaton also said on IG that the crown does not cause discomfort.


The crown may not cause discomfort....but aesthetically doesn't add to the overall look. IMO


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm not sure I would agree with you regarding Synchron doing a rush job on their watch. There are a number of differences design wise between the Synchron Military and the vintage Doxa Army which I would suspect were purely intentional and probably deliberated over for quite some time. The Synchron Military uses the Synchron era 300T case design which had a small crown recess. I agree that the Military crown could have been a bit shorter but I have the prototype case and have been wearing it with a different dial and hands and it wears great with no crown digging.

The vintage Doxa Army used the same case (as near as I can tell) as the first version of the SUB 300T. This had the largest / deepest crown recess of the vintage SUB 300T and was also the thinnest case. The closest modern / Marei era case would be a mix between the SUB 600T and SUB 1000T.

If I was Doxa that is the case design I'd be aiming at with the new Army design. It would make the watch thinner than the Military and be much truer to the design of the original vintage Army.

Doxa have the time to make the Army and make it right. I'm quite excited to see what they come up with.



djgallo said:


> Don't think so .....with the crown sticking out so far on the Synchron. For a tool watch I see this crown as being vulnerable....so looks to me like Synchron is also doing a rush job on their model.
> 
> Let's see what Doxa finally ends up designing....I'm not rushing to buy


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## djgallo (Feb 20, 2006)

CityMorgue said:


> I'm not about to say that this particular watch is wrong, but because so few of these are still in existence, and so little original information from when the watch was sold, it's hard to definitively say if those hands are original or not. There have been many vintage Doxas that have popped up over the years with interesting variances. Some could be replacements parts, or just in general frankenwatches. So far it appears that the hands that the Synchron watches use are about as genuine as they get. Mostly because the couple of ads and most of the Army's that have shown their face all use the same exact hands.


You make some great points.....in the end Doxa should be able to know exactly what hands were on the watches when they left the factory....back in the day...yes?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Absolutely not. Doxa like most people use my books as a reference and there is not much on the Army in them.

Unfortunately Doxa is one of those old companies that very little original records or info exists other than what myself and others have been able to dig up. Heck no-one even knows what the numbers mean on the casebacks. The assumption is one number is the watch design number and the other is the serial number. But is that just a pure numeric progression for every case Doxa ever made or some mash up of production number and date etc etc?

So unless the chaps at Doxa have turned up some secret cache of documents in the last 18 months about the Army then they will be going off a vintage watch they bought and whatever info they find on the internet.



djgallo said:


> You make some great points.....in the end Doxa should be able to know exactly what hands were on the watches when they left the factory....back in the day...yes?


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## djgallo (Feb 20, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Absolutely not. Doxa like most people use my books as a reference and there is not much on the Army in them.
> 
> Unfortunately Doxa is one of those old companies that very little original records or info exists other than what myself and others have been able to dig up. Heck no-one even knows what the numbers mean on the casebacks. The assumption is one number is the watch design number and the other is the serial number. But is that just a pure numeric progression for every case Doxa ever made or some mash up of production number and date etc etc?
> 
> So unless the chaps at Doxa have turned up some secret cache of documents in the last 18 months about the Army then they will be going off a vintage watch they bought and whatever info they find on the internet.


Wow...that's almost unbelievable....they (Doxa) should really be happy you took the time to write your book! Should be interesting to see how the Army finally unfolds in the end.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yea unfortunately many of the older resurrected companies are in the same position.

I was really lucky when writing the Aquastar book as there was a bunch of old documentation including things like the logo design drawings and filing for trademark etc and also minutes of meeting for the design of the Benthos 500 and of course the real break was tracking down Marc Jasinski who was head of their R&D from 1962 to 64. No such luck with Doxa. Sadly that kind of info is long gone.



djgallo said:


> Wow...that's almost unbelievable....they (Doxa) should really be happy you took the time to write your book! Should be interesting to see how the Army finally unfolds in the end.


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## charger02 (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm still not seeing a need for Doxa to bring back the Army. They are chasing coattails at this point and there isn't a whole lot of "upside."


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

charger02 said:


> They are chasing coattails at this point and there isn't a whole lot of "upside."


Besides selling more watches, of course. I have no doubts whenever the Army releases they'll sell out quickly. Yes they got beat to the punch, but from their perspective a direct competitor released an almost 1-for-1 copy of one of their old watches. Don't really blame them for wanting to release their own version.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I agree. I see nothing but upside releasing a Doxa Army. Again, this is me talking if I was running Doxa.

Everything Doxa has out now has some bit of Marei era DNA in it.

Make an ICE era case for the Army. Base it on the original vintage 300T / Army case with the same bezel side profile and flat caseback. Bingo you have a much truer case to the vintage design which you can use to bring out a true ICE era SUB 300T. The case would even be good for a 600T.

The Synchron Military sold out unexpectedly because of a number of things. The design resonated with people, Rick Marei made it and the price of it. Doxa could release an Army that looked like a coconut with a ricebead bracelet and it would have something the Synchron never could.......the word Doxa on the dial and that would be enough to sell watches.

Of course I'm not running Doxa and my hope is the present management doesn't slap 4 instances of the Jenny fish on it, use the wrong hands and use the 1200T case with the misplaced HEV.

But, to be honest, I'm quietly confident they will make a gobsmacker of a watch and the fans will love it.



NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Besides selling more watches, of course. I have no doubts whenever the Army releases they'll sell out quickly. Yes they got beat to the punch, but from their perspective a direct competitor released an almost 1-for-1 copy of one of their old watches. Don't really blame them for wanting to release their own version.


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## davidevo (Sep 28, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I agree. I see nothing but upside releasing a Doxa Army. Again, this is me talking if I was running Doxa.
> 
> Everything Doxa has out now has some bit of Marei era DNA in it.
> 
> ...


I think you're spot on with all of this... which just makes it all the more odd that they went down the social media sniping route! Just unnecessary


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## Jacques Gudé (Nov 28, 2012)

davidevo said:


> I think you're spot on with all of this... which just makes it all the more odd that they went down the social media sniping route! Just unnecessary


@Flyingdoctor ; is spot on, at least in my case. I bought the SYNMIL PVD for all the reason he noted, particularly because Rick made it! Will I still buy Doxa's version, hell YES!!! (Unless they manage to muck it up with then wrong hands, movement, case, etc.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## davidevo (Sep 28, 2020)

Odd right, almost like the brand don't have faith in the people who buy their watches?


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

I've been thinking about what Doxa wrote in their Instagram post, "The mission: “Stay true to the DNA of this iconic timepiece and re-imagine it in a contemporary way.”. Seeing the latest 300 Carbon release I wonder if the "re-imagining" part could be that they are considering to make the Army case in Carbon...?


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## davidevo (Sep 28, 2020)

Snulle said:


> I've been thinking about what Doxa wrote in their Instagram post, "The mission: "Stay true to the DNA of this iconic timepiece and re-imagine it in a contemporary way.". Seeing the latest 300 Carbon release I wonder if the "re-imagining" part could be that they are considering to make the Army case in Carbon...?


I think that might be reading a bit much into it... carbon would be dope though.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

@Doxa Watches Official - When is the army coming out?

Day 3 of me asking this question


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## davidevo (Sep 28, 2020)

reluctantsnowman said:


> @Doxa Watches Official - When is the army coming out?
> 
> Day 3 of me asking this question


I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be asking this for a few more days to come friend!


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

davidevo said:


> I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be asking this for a few more days to come friend!


I am not giving up.. they will reply at some point..
I mean we are money paying customers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jacques Gudé (Nov 28, 2012)

reluctantsnowman said:


> I am not giving up.. they will reply at some point..
> I mean we are money paying customers
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's good you think they actually care. I'm a Doxa fan, bur I'm far too cynical to believe they give two $h1ts under the current leadership.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Jacques Gudé said:


> It's good you think they actually care. I'm a Doxa fan, bur I'm far too cynical to believe they give two $h1ts under the current leadership.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I want to believe. Here's the thing though. They posted twice in 2 days and then silent.. They are on the forums. They are reading every single post, so whats going on with the development? Transparency is much much appreciated


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## charger02 (Apr 28, 2011)

Jacques Gudé said:


> It's good you think they actually care. I'm a Doxa fan, bur I'm far too cynical to believe they give two $h1ts under the current leadership.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is exactly my point. Will they sell if they are made? Probably, if the price point is right. But what's the motivation to actually make them at this point? They have their new carbon release and their original line.

If you want to take a company in a different direction why would you copy someone else work?

Which was originally your work? That was owned by the company that you've separated yourself from. Eh. Slightly confused but never mind all that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doxa Watches Official (Feb 25, 2021)

Hello all,

First of all sorry for the late reply. We try to serve everyone but the community is growing more and more. It is a nice "problem" though! 

Many of you have asked about an update of the DOXA Army. We are working on it and of course we will keep you posted about the progress.
We launched last month the SUB 300 carbon and have many exciting projects in the pipeline. Everything goes in the right direction and at the good pace! So stay tuned and you will hear from us!


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Hello all,
> 
> First of all sorry for the late reply. We try to serve everyone but the community is growing more and more. It is a nice "problem" though!
> 
> ...


Lol, this looks like a out of office reply or a message left on a answering machine.. Killing it Doxa!!


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Hello all,
> 
> First of all sorry for the late reply. We try to serve everyone but the community is growing more and more. It is a nice "problem" though!
> 
> ...


This reply is hilarious. It would've been better to just have not said anything. For all the faults of the old management, at least when a project was being worked on, we would get actual updates on times/months something may be available. Of course things happen and can push production back, but the constant 'stay tuned' is just laughable.

And to be fair the last couple of your releases haven't been super well received...Maybe it would help to get feedback from the community???


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

CityMorgue said:


> This reply is hilarious. It would've been better to just have not said anything. For all the faults of the old management, at least when a project was being worked on, we would get actual updates on times/months something may be available. Of course things happen and can push production back, but the constant 'stay tuned' is just laughable.
> 
> And to be fair the last couple of your releases haven't been super well received...Maybe it would help to get feedback from the community???


Well articulated.. I think someone pushed someone to reply something to my hounding (Yes, am going to take credit for that lol).. I think I know less now than I did before.. But hey, apparently they have something new in the pipleline.. fwtw


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Allow me to posit a theory as someone who knows both "puppies" in this particular "poop-show":
1. Divorce is hard on everyone. The split between the Jenny camp and the Marei camp is a good case in point. I think that DOXA was no more planning on releasing a DOXA Army than Rick was planning on admitting that he didn't single handedly build DOXA unaided and unassisted. You've got two pretty outsized egos trying to stick their thumb in each other's eye.
2. DOXA is clearly trying to establish a retail presence. To wit, they have now deputized the person running their BOOMING (remains to be seen) UK presence to open up Italian retail as well.
3. The "reality of retail" - DOXA is (like a lot of other brands) betting big on the hopes that being in a store will equate with sales. For those of you unfamiliar with how retail works in the US and Canada (and more and more in many other locations around the world) it does not mean that your watch is in "store A" and therefore you have made a sale. Usually rather far from it.
The majority of big stores (and while I will not claim to know definitively, I would be surprised if it wasn't the case with Watches of Switzerland) give you 1 of 2 options:
A. Memo - meaning you deliver the watches, you pay a princely fee for co-op advertising, you send your brand manager to each and every store to do a "safe count" (meaning you pay for the business class airfare, car rental, gas, hotel, wine and dine the store owner) and encourage the store owner/manager to either confirm or deny that the sale took place based on how many watches were "booked in" to the store and how many remain "in the safe". In my experience, you can show the disparity to the store owner (who just showed you his new Porsche) and he will tell you to count it again, as you must be wrong. If your brand manager is lucky, they will finally prove to the satisfaction of the store owner/manager that yes indeed, of the 20 watches that were booked in, 3 were sold. But you're not getting paid for those 3 watches just yet. Store owner/manager will request an invoice that will then be aged for a minimum of 30 days (more often than not, longer) and once you do the math you realize that from the delivery date to you receiving a portion of the money for the watches you shipped, it took 3 - 6 months (usually that is an optimistic time frame).
You figure all of the expenses incurred up to that point vs 50% of 3 watches - lets' say 3 SUB200s, and you've not only lost money on the 3 watches, you are pretty deep in the hole in every other category as well.
B. 30/60/90 - basically the invoice is divided into three parts. Brands like 30/60/90, most retailers hate it and avoid it like a social disease.

Will DOXA really make an "Army"? Well, in the end it probably doesn't matter. They managed to cause a distraction while they launched their latest watch. Because let's be honest, Synchron could have announced the "Military" any old time, but they chose to do it on the eve of a DOXA announcement ; )


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Henki said:


> Will DOXA really make an "Army"? Well, in the end it probably doesn't matter. They managed to cause a distraction while they launched their latest watch. Because let's be honest, Synchron could have announced the "Military" any old time, but they chose to do it on the eve of a DOXA announcement ; )


Quite detailed and interesting, but I beg to disagree on the doesnt matter part and the distraction part as well

1) It absolutely DOES matter because the Army is a DOXA watch and us DOXA fans know they will do a legit product
2) If by distraction you mean carbon, I mean thats how they are going arent they. We all know whats coming next. The logos will be made regular product at price line of 4k or some other limited line restored into regular production


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I'd just relaunch it using an existing case such as the 300 or 300T (no HEV version) to keep my production costs down - not everything needs to be an exact copy of an old model - and a host of slightly different (but really looking the same) cases for new/reissued models makes little commercial sense. Do most prospective customers for future Doxa's really care if there is a slight different curve here or a wee bit longer/flatter something there? I doubt it - they just like the cushion case. I'd just move forward with the 300 and 300T cases, keep things simple and cost effective - the Army would offer a range of different dials/bezels with the same basic cases. That and adding some of the colours as other dial versions would be my idea of 're-imagine', should be easily manageable at the 300T price and Doxa need not make a fool of themselves.


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Quite detailed and interesting, but I beg to disagree on the doesnt matter part and the distraction part as well
> 
> 1) It absolutely DOES matter because the Army is a DOXA watch and us DOXA fans know they will do a legit product
> 2) If by distraction you mean carbon, I mean thats how they are going arent they. We all know whats coming next. The logos will be made regular product at price line of 4k or some other limited line restored into regular production


Hi - I'm not saying the DOXA Army does not matter to the fans here on the forum - I am saying that as far as the folks in Biel/Bienne are concerned it is not exactly important - hence the long silence - hence "it does not matter" - to THEM.

As for the distraction - let's be honest, the timing of announcing a Synchron Military on the eve of DOXA announcing their Carbon model was rather curious, and call me cynical, but not accidental. That being said, as the feedback from other forum members here indicated, there was a fair bit of enthusiasm for these new pieces. So better to respond immediately to the Synchron salvo with (let's be honest, a ham-fisted and poorly thought out retort) and try to compartmentalize that issue separately so that 48 hours later you can crow: "hey kids, look! Another NEW DOXA!"

At any rate, time will tell how it will all play out. Could be the makings of a great 80's tv mini series:
*"DOXA"*
_A sweeping 5-part television event spanning half-a century! Three generations fight for the love, approval and acceptance of the family patriarch. Lives lived, loves lost! Staring:
Robert Mitchum, Rachel Ward, Jan Michael Vincent and Diane Lane, and special guest star Chamberlain_


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Henki said:


> As for the distraction - let's be honest, the timing of announcing a Synchron Military on the eve of DOXA announcing their Carbon model was rather curious, and call me cynical, but not accidental. That being said, as the feedback from other forum members here indicated, there was a fair bit of enthusiasm for these new pieces. So better to respond immediately to the Synchron salvo with (let's be honest, a ham-fisted and poorly thought out retort) and try to compartmentalize that issue separately so that 48 hours later you can crow: "hey kids, look! Another NEW DOXA!"


This bit I do know something about from the Synchron side. I had the prototype case from July last year. Covid lockdowns in Europe especially Austria and Switzerland were some of the strictest in Europe. For example in a small company if someone tested positive you shut the whole company down for 2 weeks. Everyone then came back, someone else tested positive, you shut the whole place down again for 2 weeks. Think what that does if you are waiting on watches / movements being assembled / tested etc. All the watch companies suffered. Synchron / Rick wasn't just dealing with the Military, they were trying to ship the Deepstar, Aquadive, Straps and look at developing other watches and wondering if the watch industry was even going to survive.

The fear was more that Doxa would release something at the same time as the Military. As it turned out the Covid restrictions eased and people / companies got back on track. Doxa didn't just wake up on 10th Feb when restrictions eased and said: "OK lets look at doing a distribution thing and release a new watch". It had been in the plan for a while waiting on things getting back to some semblance of normal. It really was a co-incidence as far as I can see.

There is no doubt that the Military caught Doxa cold and you are being overly generous in your assessment "a ham-fisted and poorly thought out retort". I'd add rank amateur to it.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Bueller.....
Bueller.....


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Ha, Ha. Excellent. I'd almost forgotten that scene 



NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Bueller.....
> Bueller.....


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Just want to clear something up here. Rick Marei was never an employee of DOXA. He resurrected the brand. DOXA supplied parts and service to him. They ended that relationship.


Beg to differ, unless Europa Star got his title mixed up.

_Presentation of the Doxa Diver's Chronograph Automatic Sub600 T-graph (Limited Edition) to the curators of the Château des Monts watch museum in Le Locle - from left to right: Rick Marei - Marketing Manager Doxa SA, Romeo F. Jenny - Managing Director Doxa SA, Pierre Buser - Curator, Gérard Triponet - President, Dora Huguenin - Vice-President._


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

lab-guy said:


> Jenny owns Walca. Assembly done in Switzerland, I was told by US Doxa back in the day


And I have a bridge I'd like to sell you


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

Brey17 said:


> Basically, a guy named Rick Marei has a cult following because of his contributions working for Doxa (or maybe as some here assert, Doxa the company actually worked for him). Doxa got rid of him, and it wasn't an amicable parting evidently. Many here hate the ownership direction of Doxa, and now Rick works or owns this different competing brand. So his followers are pleased that he took the project that he was working on at Doxa and now released it with the new company brand name... something to that effect. I am sure others can correct any misspeak.


He was marketing manager for DOXA and in charge of DOXA USA, DOXA did not work for him, it was the other way around. He also does not have access to a watchmaking facility so guessing he is outsourcing production to a Chinese Factory, the same as DOXA uses Walca. OWC in Orange, Australia do the same thing, the owner is an Accountant by trade and sources his components through other sources located in China and he is quite open about this. His watches are excellent quality though and I believe he uses a local watchmaker to assemble the product.

Time and Tide became the Australian distributor after Rick was dismissed, turning to a traditional dealer network and away from web based sales. I attended the Brisbane launch party, where I connected with an old friend. He tried on a Doxa Orange sub (can't remember which model and the clasp could not be reopened). The Time and Tide staff (not a watchmaker among them) had no idea of how to get the watch off his wrist and My friend said does that mean I get to keep it for free. The Time and Tide guy said no, but happy to sell it to you. They spent around an hour trying to undo the clasp and my friend was getting very concerned, eventually they had to disconnect the bracelet at the lug. Very embarrassing for them, particularly launching a new product. I had already bought a DOXA 200 and flipped it pretty quickly after that.

I have never had illusions about where DOXA were made and the smoke and mirror antics by the company. Good quality watches but the deceptive practices, on-line bullying by the company when they were an "official" forum and the often discussed secrecy behind where the watches were made soured me on their products.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

wiesi1989 said:


> I think a new Synchron Sub Line would be incredible. I´d love to see a professional or sharkhunter, or a divingstar poseidon with the old fonts and logos of Synchron on it. And I don´t think that "professional" or "sharkhunter" are trademarked.
> 
> Altogether with the new Synchron Case and on a BOR and under 2k - I think they will sell out as fast as you can even spell the name Doxa.
> 
> So I keep saving money, Rick is a genius and only he knows whats coming next. If there is no Synchron Sub Line - I will keep moving on with seeking the ultimate trilogy, every Aqualung Edition of the SUB300 50th. I already own one of the rarest - the silverlung. But Professional and Sharkhunter Aqualung will be hard to find...


I don't know Rick that well, other than a few interactions via email over the years, but I would say that he is very good at marketing and invigorating a once respectable brand. I don't know him well enough to call him a genius. After all he just recreated watch models paying homage to the originals. I would say MKII probably started that trend in the late 90's early 00's.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

reluctantsnowman said:


> I want to believe. Here's the thing though. They posted twice in 2 days and then silent.. They are on the forums. They are reading every single post, so whats going on with the development? Transparency is much much appreciated


Doxa have never been transparent.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I stand by what I said. He was not on the payroll of Doxa. A title on an email or for presentation purposes does not mean he was employed by them.



Pete26 said:


> Beg to differ, unless Europa Star got his title mixed up.
> 
> _Presentation of the Doxa Diver's Chronograph Automatic Sub600 T-graph (Limited Edition) to the curators of the Château des Monts watch museum in Le Locle - from left to right: Rick Marei - Marketing Manager Doxa SA, Romeo F. Jenny - Managing Director Doxa SA, Pierre Buser - Curator, Gérard Triponet - President, Dora Huguenin - Vice-President._


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

This has been beaten to death on the Dive watch forum. The Military watches are made in Europe. Why are you coming here saying I am wrong based on an infomercial from a magazine and that you guess the watches are produced in China. Do you own one? Have you ordered one? What is your agenda here?



Pete26 said:


> so guessing he is outsourcing production to a Chinese Factory, the same as DOXA uses Walca.


----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Pete26 said:


> I don't know Rick that well, other than a few interactions via email over the years, but I would say that he is very good at marketing and invigorating a once respectable brand. I don't know him well enough to call him a genius. After all he just recreated watch models paying homage to the originals. I would say MKII probably started that trend in the late 90's early 00's.


I would venture to say the genius part is selling a Doxa at 1/3 the price.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I stand by what I said. He was not on the payroll of Doxa. A title on an email or for presentation purposes does not mean he was employed by them.


I mean would you know? It's not like you've written a book on the matter.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Pete26 said:


> Doxa have never been transparent.


Fascinating to find that @Pete26, who has only been active on the Omega and Rolex forums for the last 2 months knows more than a gent who has written a couple of books about this (four, five, I dont remember)


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Fascinating to find that @Pete26, who has only been active on the Omega and Rolex forums for the last 2 months knows more than a gent who has written a couple of books about this (four, five, I dont remember)


Guys who write definitive brand books, over rated for sure.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

riff raff said:


> Guys who write definitive brand books, over rated for sure.


I'd take the over-rated brand book guy's word over a non-brand guy anyday


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I stand by what I said. He was not on the payroll of Doxa. A title on an email or for presentation purposes does not mean he was employed by them.


Oh okay, I thought if you were Marketing manager for a company you were employed by them, not doing it for free.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Fascinating to find that @Pete26, who has only been active on the Omega and Rolex forums for the last 2 months knows more than a gent who has written a couple of books about this (four, five, I dont remember)


Check my profile mate. I have been on this forum since the early 21st century. Think about that before slinging insults. For your information I have read the DOXA forum since it started, I was also asked to be a moderator on the Omega forum in 1999 for TZ.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> This has been beaten to death on the Dive watch forum. The Military watches are made in Europe. Why are you coming here saying I am wrong based on an infomercial from a magazine and that you guess the watches are produced in China. Do you own one? Have you ordered one? What is your agenda here?


Simply the truth, I have no agenda going here. I know it's been beaten to death but no definitive answer has ever been given to the question and certainly no evidence provided by DOXA as to where they are manufactured.

I have owned 3 or 4 Doxa's and yes they are nicely made, but that does not explain their manufacture and I would love an honest answer to my question.

Synchron is another company that Rick hopes will knock DOXA off their game. He is getting back at them for firing him and there is no getting around that. He criticised John Vargas for being disloyal and going behind his back and yes I read the emails between John and Rick back in the day. How is this different to what Rick is doing now?

That quote is from the opening of the DOXA museum was by Europa Star a prestigious watch magazine. You have been a supporter of Rick since before 2006 and yes I am aware that you wrote the "definitive Doxa book" and I respect your loyalty to the company and to Rick. Are you telling me that all the banning and attacks on people on this forum trying to ascertain the origins of their watches is a fair process? this occurred many times when DOXA was an "Official forum".

Other watch forums I frequent are saying that now the DOXA forum is a sponsored one the banning will commence again.

The reason I don't frequent this forum is because I was disgusted with the way DOXA and Rick treated John Vargas and heavy handedly treated members of this forum, indiscriminately banning them for questioning DOXA's manufacturing process without ever providing an answer.

John Vargas blew it all out of the water when he published his emails on several forums and was attacked viciously. I know there is more than one side to a story, but I speak with my wallet and I won't ever buy another Doxa or Synchron.

I personally find the photos of the Synchron not particularly inspiring although I do have a fondness for tropic straps.

I won't be frequenting this forum again, I used to peruse it occasionally but it seems the Same old Doxa fanboy stuff going down here.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Fascinating to find that @Pete26, who has only been active on the Omega and Rolex forums for the last 2 months knows more than a gent who has written a couple of books about this (four, five, I dont remember)


Check my user name buddy, you will be surprised how long I have been here, I just don't get into puerile argument for no reason, however the long and bitter history about DOXA, Synchron and other similar brands have gone on for ever.

This forum particularly had a notoriety to indiscriminately silence people who questioned the companies tactics.

I am finding that a lot of forums have changed and are about monetising and shilling products.

I noticed that Rick ditched all his Doxa's, except maybe for one or two.

I didn't read Mein Kampf either.


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

Pete26 said:


> And I have a bridge I'd like to sell you


Troll on elsewhere. Any forums you've missed?


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

lab-guy said:


> Troll on elsewhere. Any forums you've missed?


Ah, I see the tone of the forums hasn't changed good luck with whatever you decide to spend your money on. I'm not wasting anymore time on feeding ignorant souls who believe that stating an opinion is trolling.

Read the history of this forum yourself and the fact will become obvious, even to someone like you.

Insulting people who have contributed to these forums since 2001 doesn't make you right.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Pete26 said:


> Check my user name buddy, you will be surprised how long I have been here, I just don't get into puerile argument for no reason, however the long and bitter history about DOXA, Synchron and other similar brands have gone on for ever.
> 
> This forum particularly had a notoriety to indiscriminately silence people who questioned the companies tactics.
> 
> ...


Ok, since you went all buddy on me, may I ask. This is a Doxa Army thread and you are bringing up an old story about Rick Marei, who no longer works for Doxa.. What am I missing here?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I will repeat myself. The Synchron Military is made in Europe not China as Pete24 suggests. As to where the DOXA watches are manufactured I think I know where the cases and bracelets are made but without concrete proof it is just my thinking. They have Swiss Made on the dial so they meet the requirements for that. Personally I don’t give a crap. I’m interested in quality, fit and finish and reliability not where stuff is made. I would prefer made in the USA but that’s just me. My DOXA SUBs give me what I want in a watch and so does my Synchron Military.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Watchout63 said:


> I would venture to say the genius part is selling a Doxa at 1/3 the price.


Or, looking at it another way, perhaps the genius part was when he was selling Doxas he was able to sell them at 3 times the price...(well twice the price more like)


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

8505davids said:


> Or, looking at it another way, perhaps the genius part was when he was selling Doxas he was able to sell them at 3 times the price...


This legit made me laugh


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Ok, since you went all buddy on me, may I ask. This is a Doxa Army thread and you are bringing up an old story about Rick Marei, who no longer works for Doxa.. What am I missing here?


Because Rick is behind the Synchron Army, The original Doxa sub and the revamped Aquastar. Just providing a bit of context, and the fact that while I am certain that all the above mentioned watches were/are of decent quality, I have been around enough to have seen the developments in the DOXA/Synchron/Aquastar/WALCA discussions ad nauseam.

This whole thread is about how Rick one upped DOXA, and how DOXA is behind the mark and making fake mockups, which they are, everyone knows that putting tritium in a dial unless in capsules is a no no so the images on their site is clearly a desperate ploy to catch up, but please don't tell me that the revamped Aquastar and now the Synchron are anything more than Rick trying to assure his position and to tell DOXA to take a hike. It's also a business making money.

Rick would not be offering this watch at the price it is if he was still at DOXA

I am not defending DOXA and I am not condemning Rick and good on him for creating an affordable dive watch, which is how the revamped DOXA started back in 2006. Me being called a troll because I question where a Swiss or German made watch is actually manufactured, the lack of transparency of any of these companies for years and the fact that still we do not have any images or idea of where the watches are manufactured raises concerns which I think should be shared in forum to provide information to consumers.

This has nothing to do with Rick, but I went to the time and Tide DOXA event in Brisbane a few years ago when they became the Aussie distributor of DOXA and a long time friend who owned a Marei era Doxa tried on a new DOXA sub. He couldn't undo the clasp and the staff ended up having to release the bracelet at the lugs. Quite an embarrassment at the time.

I don't want to contribute to this thread and be continuously attacked by fanboys for reminding people of the past history of all these companies.

If you guys are happy to buy this watch, which in my opinion is a homage of the original DOXA Army then the best of luck to you.

I really have no interest in either watch.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Pete26 said:


> Rick would not be offering this watch at the price it is if he was still at DOXA
> 
> If Rick was still selling Doxa watches he probably would not be selling this watch. It is because of the ending of the Doxa relationship that he was able to move ahead with this project. It is not a Doxa, it is a Synchron and it is different to the vintage Doxa and very probably different to the new Doxa Army, if and when it comes out (my guess based on a carbon case). Have a read....
> 
> ...


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

Pete26 said:


> I am not defending DOXA and I am not condemning Rick and good on him for creating an affordable dive watch, which is how the revamped DOXA started back in 2006.


It's hard to take you seriously when you got this simple fact wrong. Doxa was revived in 99/00...

It sure seems like you are just trolling.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Pete26 said:


> Because Rick is behind the Synchron Army, The original Doxa sub and the revamped Aquastar. Just providing a bit of context, and the fact that while I am certain that all the above mentioned watches were/are of decent quality, I have been around enough to have seen the developments in the DOXA/Synchron/Aquastar/WALCA discussions ad nauseam.
> 
> This whole thread is about how Rick one upped DOXA, and how DOXA is behind the mark and making fake mockups, which they are, everyone knows that putting tritium in a dial unless in capsules is a no no so the images on their site is clearly a desperate ploy to catch up, but please don't tell me that the revamped Aquastar and now the Synchron are anything more than Rick trying to assure his position and to tell DOXA to take a hike. It's also a business making money.
> 
> ...


Mr @Pete26... Thank you for your detailed answer to what was actually my question.. I am the opposite of you really. I kinda dont really care where the watch is made. I dont buy something because its swiss made. I have some chinese made watches (Seagull, Heimdallr) and they are absolute beast of watches for the price. Yes, I am a Doxa Fan boy, DOXA, which included Rick in the past, and the new management now, but first and foremost, the watch brand DOXA. You keeping saying like its a bad thing to be a fan boy. This is a online watch forum where we debate about nuances of watches all the day. Is there a better definition for us?


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

CityMorgue said:


> It's hard to take you seriously when you got this simple fact wrong. Doxa was revived in 99/00...
> 
> It sure seems like you are just trolling.


No it was definitely 2002 I use to own the orange 300 with bicycle chain bracelet


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

This thread's caption is perfect (Doxa Army) as it's almost a war in this thread, 

😆


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

reluctantsnowman said:


> This legit made me laugh


It was meant to! But of course Doxa aren't alone in charging as much as they think they can get away with for their products - thats the backbone of all 'luxury' goods pricing. Even at its price I'm sure the Synchron made a healthy profit ...and why not I guess.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

8505davids said:


> It was meant to! But of course Doxa aren't alone in charging as much as they think they can get away with for their products - thats the backbone of all 'luxury' goods pricing. Even at its price I'm sure the Synchron made a healthy profit ...and why not I guess.


I think the whole point was China or not.. I think folks get too hung up on specifics.. I remember reading a Doc Vail's post about the same topic on Swiss watches in general.. Meh

As long as we were throwing money at them, good on them for making money


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Mr @Pete26... Thank you for your detailed answer to what was actually my question.. I am the opposite of you really. I kinda dont really care where the watch is made. I dont buy something because its swiss made. I have some chinese made watches (Seagull, Heimdallr) and they are absolute beast of watches for the price. Yes, I am a Doxa Fan boy, DOXA, which included Rick in the past, and the new management now, but first and foremost, the watch brand DOXA. You keeping saying like its a bad thing to be a fan boy. This is a online watch forum where we debate about nuances of watches all the day. Is there a better definition for us?


Nothing wrong with being a fanboy, I'm one myself and don't mean it to sound like an insult.

I joined the forum when Ernie invited me in 2001 and Doxa was not on the forum in 2001, so I'm not sure that you are right there, unless my memory is really going with age, Rick reinvigerated Doxa in the early to mid 2000's. Of course I could be going senile with age.

I have been on WUS since 2021 and Watchnet and TZ in 1997. Back then it was difficult to buy watches other than brick and mortar and Richard Paige innovated on-line shopping with his brick and mortar store in San Francisco. He was the first besides Chronograph.com who sold watches internationally via the web and that was an onerous process.

I actually remember being invited to join the Seiko and Citizen forum around 2000 and the only place you could buy domestic Japanese watches was Higuchi- Inc and Seiya Japan. Doxa didn't market their subs on-line until around 2004/5.

Sorry for the rambling history lesson but as you can see there is much lack of transparency around these companies.

For context, the infamous John Vargas and Rick Marei blowup occurred a few years ago after John asked for a raise and was rejected and later fired. John claimed that the watches were not made in Switzerland at all and if fans knew the truth there would be an uproar. Rick and other Doxa management tried to cover it up. This started people questioning where the watches were made and it was discovered that Walca were the parent company of Doxa and made high end Chinese watches for various brands.

The Walca website showed various Chinese brands, including Doxa Sub orange dials. It was quickly changed after some WIS saw it.

Doxa never explained this and kept reiterating that they were Swiss made, however pictures I have seen of the Doxa building show a glass door with a stick on Doxa stuck on it and an empty Rolex car park. The only pictures that I have seen of Doxa workers is of a few people repairing watches.The building itself appears abandoned.

The Jenny family company is located in Austria which os where I received my Jenny from and where I returned it.

Flying Doctor claims that Rick was never an employee of Doxa which is clearly false and now Rick is claiming that he has worked for Synchron since 1999 and that they were the first forum on WUS.

There is so much else I could tell you but I'm so over the endless feuding between Rick Marei and Doxa and clearly this new Synchron military is an ongoing iteration of this and of Rick desperately trying to retain his title of a vintage watch reinvigorator. I can't call him an inventor but he is a marketing genius.

Indiscriminately banning and insults were directed at anyone who wanted answers or questioned the business. Much the same today really, which is why I stepped down as Moderator after less that 2 days. It may have even been a day.

Consequently, I won't touch anything by Doxa, Synchron, Walca or Aquadive, simply because of their business practices and lack of transparency. I'm sure they are all fine watches, just to for me.

I'm sorry but a company without transparency and that won't indulge robust discussion about their products is not a company I will ever do business with, especially a company that claims its Swiss made and comes from Austria.
I don't care where watches are made as long as the quality is good. My beef is the lying about it. I hate liars with a passion.


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Tbh I think you have fair and valid points but as you know It’s all been said before just this time it appears that no overzealous forum mod has deleted , frozen thread and banned you so I’m guessing this is progress on wus part


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Pete26 said:


> Nothing wrong with being a fanboy, I'm one myself and don't mean it to sound like an insult.
> 
> I joined the forum when Ernie invited me in 2001 and Doxa was not on the forum in 2001, so I'm not sure that you are right there, unless my memory is really going with age, Rick reinvigerated Doxa in the early to mid 2000's. Of course I could be going senile with age.
> 
> ...


Again, thank you for your detailed explanation. Banning folks for speaking up against a sponsor hasn't happened recently (knock on wood), but that kinda violation would surely annoy me too

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cdnwatchguy (Feb 18, 2006)

So glad to see the Doxa Forum lunacy continues.


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## Sohl (Feb 21, 2015)

Pete26 said:


> Flying Doctor claims that Rick was never an employee of Doxa which is clearly false and now Rick is claiming that he has worked for Synchron since 1999 and that they were the first forum on WUS.


Rick has run his reissue operation under the ghost Synchron brand since that time, through which he held a 20 year licensing agreement for the Doxa SUB brand, beginning in 2000. The Jenny family decided not to renew that agreement at the end of 2020. Rick never worked for Doxa.


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## Phoenixboy (Sep 20, 2019)

Are @doxa watches actually active on here?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Phoenixboy said:


> Are @doxa watches actually active on here?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a feeling they are essentially coasting on the momentum created by Rick and really don't have a clue what to do. Probably waiting for the Swatch group to make them an offer they can't refuse.

Until then they just make watches that look like they are made from recycled plastic cups (the carbon). I asked them directly a few questions last year and they said "Oh a lot is happening in the next few months!"

....tumbleweed....


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## Phoenixboy (Sep 20, 2019)

daglesj said:


> I have a feeling they are essentially coasting on the momentum created by Rick and really don't have a clue what to do. Probably waiting for the Swatch group to make them an offer they can't refuse.
> 
> Until then they just make watches that look like they are made from recycled plastic cups (the carbon). I asked them directly a few questions last year and they said "Oh a lot is happening in the next few months!"
> 
> ....tumbleweed....


As helpful as a fart in a spacesuit springs to mind

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

daglesj said:


> I have a feeling they are essentially coasting on the momentum created by Rick and really don't have a clue what to do. Probably waiting for the Swatch group to make them an offer they can't refuse.
> 
> Until then they just make watches that look like they are made from recycled plastic cups (the carbon). I asked them directly a few questions last year and they said "Oh a lot is happening in the next few months!"
> 
> ....tumbleweed....


I had a feeling that this would be what happened. They come to forum, just in time to announce a couple of 'curious' releases, and then when they get criticized, they conveniently retreat into the ether without a word.

Of course there isn't any actual interaction with their dedicated fans, because they know more than us..._cough*crap-graph, carbon plastic*cough cough_

And unsurprisingly, they've gone radio silent on the Army. It's been over 2 months since Synchron announced theirs, and if Doxa truly had anything ready, they wouldn't hesitate to show more of the model and details about availability and such. Doxa would've been better off never announcing anything about the Army period.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Phoenixboy said:


> Are @doxa watches actually active on here?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only if you make them look bad.. They will provide a vague and automated response, akin to voicemail


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## Phoenixboy (Sep 20, 2019)

It appears there active, but don't appear to be posting or respond to anything.
Shame really, as I love the watch, but a simple question by Pm appears to have been ignored.
Doesn't inspire confidence 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Hi -
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - these are, essentially, white label companies. The do not actually make anything on their own, they use assemblers (and there is nothing wrong with that). There is a reason why journalists are not invited to tour the facilities ; )

Yes these two brands have owners, and yes they have employees (curious to relate, not so many watchmakers). And again, there is nothing wrong with that. There are TONS of white label brands out there (and for my sins I own one of them).

But I can absolutely understand the frustration with a lot of the answers given that are not answers at all, but deflections or prevarications. I worked for Rick, and I know the Jennys, and suffice it to say they are probably better off separated and I am much happier and saner not working with/for either of them. 

Some key facts:
Rick was never an employee of DOXA
Rick had the rights to market and sell the DOXA SUB in North America and other selected countries
Rick and Mr. Jenny senior got on famously...until they didn't
There were other people working on the DOXA SUB in North America with Rick
Both Rick and the Jennys seemed to enjoy playing "super secret agent" over things that in the end frequently bit them in the butt and would have been easier dealt with through transparency.

One other thing that bears mentioning -
The Jennys have no experience working as employees of other brands. So for better or worse, their take on things is going to be a wee bit myopic. But then again, the same could be said for Rick. They were (and still are) in many ways two sides of the same coin. Both parties would have greatly benefited from some additional experiences in other environments, or to listen to other points of view (not a strength for either). With Jan Edocs it remains to be seen how things will ultimately turn out. The thing is, the entire "DOXA DIVORCE" is a wonderful example of egos clashing and relationships crashing. The Jennys are seemingly convinced that the SUB can be marketed "in house" and that they didn't and don't need "outsiders", and to hear Rick tell it from recent interviews, he apparently did everything on his own with no help from anyone. They are both compelling stories, and they are both wrong.

With all that said, it is nice to see after all these years that there is still so much passion for an orange dialed dive watch. And what you all have been proving these last two years is that it wasn't the Jennys and it wasn't Rick who saved the DOXA SUB, in actual fact it was all of you ; )

Enjoy your watches


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Henki said:


> Hi -
> I've said it before, and I'll say it again - these are, essentially, white label companies. The do not actually make anything on their own, they use assemblers (and there is nothing wrong with that). There is a reason why journalists are not invited to tour the facilities ; )
> 
> Yes these two brands have owners, and yes they have employees (curious to relate, not so many watchmakers). And again, there is nothing wrong with that. There are TONS of white label brands out there (and for my sins I own one of them).
> ...


Interesting read! Question on your comment "white label". These are made by Walca, right? If so, is Doxa still "white label"? Or is Walka white label. i.e just assembling?


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Henki said:


> Enjoy your watches


I WILL.. I dont care if its made by a bunch of parrots who love to eat peanuts. I am so tired of this "outing" the company..


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

nepatriot said:


> Interesting read! Question on your comment "white label". These are made by Walca, right? If so, is Doxa still "white label"? Or is Walka white label. i.e just assembling?


So white label can be taken both ways: Walca is an organization that provides "white label service" Meaning you go to them with your drawings and your cash, and they provide you with the product. When someone says "Brand X is a "white label" brand that means that it is a brand, maybe even well known, but they do not make or produce the watches themselves.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Army or not - the CEO understands what dial color Doxa is really all about.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

reluctantsnowman said:


> I WILL.. I dont care if its made by a bunch of parrots who love to eat peanuts. I am so tired of this "outing" the company..


I wholeheartedly agree. I care about the watches and the story behind them, the company making them means as much to me as the supermarket where I do grocery shopping.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

MadsNilsson said:


> I wholeheartedly agree. I care about the watches and the story behind them, the company making them means as much to me as the supermarket where I do grocery shopping.


Davs, as they say...well...until your potatoes and steaks are rotten and you want to return them to get new ones (aka service).

tl;dr - the seller matters. Always.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Loevhagen said:


> Davs, as they say...well...until your potatoes and steaks are rotten and you want to return them to get new ones (aka service).
> 
> tl;dr - the seller matters. Always.


Davs du

Well sure if the movement is proprietary, but it isn't. It's a movement that can be serviced anywhere and the likelihood of needing a Doxa service is really quite slim. 
I know that there might be a need for new crown tubes or the like but, I would never send my watch off to the manufacturer unless I absolutely have to..

Also, being that I am a Dane you know I'll always have potatoes on hand..

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

MadsNilsson said:


> Davs du
> 
> Well sure if the movement is proprietary, but it isn't. It's a movement that can be serviced anywhere and the likelihood of needing a Doxa service is really quite slim.
> I know that there might be a need for new crown tubes or the like but, I would never send my watch off to the manufacturer unless I absolutely have to..
> ...


If my Doxa (calibre) should need a service, I will service it locally if I can to avoid sending it to the mothership - so we agree on that.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm pretty much retired now with nothing to do. Maybe they should hire me


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Loevhagen said:


> If my Doxa (calibre) should need a service, I will service it locally if I can to avoid sending it to the mothership - so we agree on that.


The only thing is, in some places, local service is getting hard to find. There was one local watch maker to me, closed a few years ago. And for some brands it seems getting parts can be hard.


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## Sohl (Feb 21, 2015)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm pretty much retired now with nothing to do. Maybe they should hire me


How great would this be!! Where do we send our letters?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yea, how cool would it be to spend the day talking Doxa to people. Where do I sign 



Sohl said:


> How great would this be!! Where do we send our letters?


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## Bob1035 (Nov 26, 2019)

Just read this whole thread, mainly out of curiosity. My conclusion? I still want a doxa, as I don't currently own one


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm pretty much retired now with nothing to do. Maybe they should hire me


"They" as in Doxa or Synchron? 🤣🤘

@Henki - Should he start working for Doxa or Synchron?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Synchron don't need me they are doing just fine. Besides, Rick is my friend, I'd hate to work with him. It probably wouldn't end well 

I'm the Doxa guy 



Loevhagen said:


> "They" as in Doxa or Synchron? ??
> 
> @Henki - Should he start working for Doxa or Synchron?


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Bob1035 said:


> Just read this whole thread, mainly out of curiosity. My conclusion? I still want a doxa, as I don't currently own one


Do it.. As weird as most of these conversations are, the brand and the watch is pretty much the same. I dont really care much about the management as I would about my local governance body.

If you like the watch, buy it and wear it with joy.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Synchron don't need me they are doing just fine. Besides, Rick is my friend, I'd hate to work with him. It probably wouldn't end well
> 
> I'm the Doxa guy


Ha, ha - I see. Monty Phyton's Flying Circus comes to mind. Flyingdoctor and the Doxacircus.  A perfect match...and at least entertaining.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Synchron don't need me they are doing just fine. Besides, Rick is my friend, I'd hate to work with him. It probably wouldn't end well
> 
> I'm the Doxa guy


Well, if you could get that DG fish off the crown &#8230; or at least lose the orange paint &#8230;


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, I guess it is possible. We have seen DOXA on the crown in recent years.

I've a couple of ideas for watches which I think would blow the Carbon out of the water and have most Doxa fans salivating. Not the SUB 300T FD although that would be nice  no, these are new SUBs that I think would make a lot of people sit up and take notice.

It would be a great conversation to have with Mr Edocs but I guess I'll be waiting a long time for a message from him with his phone number



nepatriot said:


> Well, if you could get that DG fish off the crown &#8230; or at least lose the orange paint &#8230;


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

A limited release of the 300T with the skeletonized Aqualung logo would be cool.


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

I am not sure if anyone is still looking for one, but apparently, Synchron had a few cancellations on the initial 500 watch run (250 Stainless and 250 Black) on the Military re-issue. They have relisted those watches for sale on their site. Over the weekend, the black version sold out again, but they appear to stll have 4-5 left. If anyone is interested...act fast, I don't think they will last long!


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

It's this on/off "special price for you my friend - pre-order-stuff" that kept me away from Doxa in the Risk M-era. Now, when things are more normal, I decided to buy a Doxa. When Rick M still pulls this stunt of "order now, or loose" - I'm cold.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Would still like to see Doxa do perhaps annual or less frequent dual branded small batch LEs 300s alongside their regular lines - no doubt the price would be frightening if they did....


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## gforgal (Jan 30, 2011)

Any update? @Doxa Watches Official


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## schoutedeni (Jul 2, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> What, like the way the DOXA cases are.


Please say it isn't so !

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

schoutedeni said:


> Please say it isn't so !
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You are naive if you don't think that every Swiss watch company is pushing the "Swiss Made" definition as far as it goes. It is only 60% value added after all..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## schoutedeni (Jul 2, 2021)

MadsNilsson said:


> You are naive if you don't think that every Swiss watch company is pushing the "Swiss Made" definition as far as it goes. It is only 60% value added after all..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was just hoping that something as important as the case was atleast made in house using a good US or European grade of 316-L. Guess that was too much to ask.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I've been to Switzerland once. Going by how loose the regulations are to claim a watch as being Swiss made, I could probably get a Swiss Passport now 



schoutedeni said:


> I was just hoping that something as important as the case was atleast made in house using a good US or European grade of 316-L. Guess that was too much to ask.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

schoutedeni said:


> I was just hoping that something as important as the case was atleast made in house using a good US or European grade of 316-L. Guess that was too much to ask.


Realistically even the big names use production facilities in parts of the world not EU/US for at least the base elements of the watch and then finish them in Switzerland. At least I expect as much unless they tell me otherwise.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## schoutedeni (Jul 2, 2021)

MadsNilsson said:


> Realistically even the big names use production facilities in parts of the world not EU/US for at least the base elements of the watch and then finish them in Switzerland. At least I expect as much unless they tell me otherwise.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In my experience, once a company starts subcontracting items like cases to Chinese companies, it's only a matter of time 
until the 'homage' copies start showing up. They don't have to copy anything. The OEM gave them the drawings !

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

schoutedeni said:


> In my experience, once a company starts subcontracting items like cases to Chinese companies, it's only a matter of time
> until the 'homage' copies start showing up. They don't have to copy anything. The OEM gave them the drawings !
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hmm..









★Limited Time Deal★ Tactical Frog Sub 300T Diving Watch V1


Tactical Frog Sub 300T Watches Are On Sale. It is available in 6 dial colors with a unidirectional rotating bezel with depth indication in meters. Enjoy free shipping in Watchdives.com




watchdives.com


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

@Doxa Watches Official - Any updates on the Doxa Army? 

My doctor warned me that a heavy wallet is causing back issues. YOU are medically obligated to relieve me of my back pain!

P.S I will keep checking in till I wear the Doxa Army on my wrist


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Get the Seestern version in a few weeks for $200?


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Its going to be interesting to see how Doxa justify the price of their Army - it was an issue when it was just the Synchron, but with the Maranez and now the Seestern lowering the entry level so much ....and they are pretty well made....ok cheaper movement but not a massive difference price-wise between the two.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

8505davids said:


> Its going to be interesting to see how Doxa justify the price of their Army - it was an issue when it was just the Synchron, but with the Maranez and now the Seestern lowering the entry level so much ....and they are pretty well made....ok cheaper movement but not a massive difference price-wise between the two.


I doubt the Maranez and Seestern will be even the slightest of factors. Realistically, assuming these are a limited production, they’ll sell like hotcakes anywhere at or under the $2500 price range.


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## Monkwearmouth (Feb 21, 2013)

The Seestern should have Doxa worried- better lume , drilled lugs , much better bracelet integration with the case, sensible pricing. Doxa need to raise their game as the Chinese have caught up. 
(see the comparison on YouTube from Just One More Watch)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I'm not saying people who want the Doxa version would be swayed instead to the cheaper versions ..... just that you'd have to be aware why exactly the asking price is probably going to be at least 10 times the price of the Seestern, six times the price of the Maranez, double the Synchron ... makes me wonder if that is one of the reasons for the delay in them hitting the market - they aren't sure how to play it. I've no doubt though that they will sell (and I might also be one of those buyers...) but its a lot extra to pay for what is mostly going to be a name...but I guess that could be said of most....

As my old dad used to say - 'there's nowt as feil as folk'


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

The thing is I'm not a fan of homages purely due to the fact if I'm wearing it as a substitute for a watch I 'really want' I know it not the real thing. I bought a homage Tuna and sold it after a week as I still want a Tuna but it wasn't a Tuna. 

Now as I have a Doxa, I could live with a Doxa homage or two as I have got over that mental hurdle. I am content knowing I have the real deal if I want it. I'm sure plenty here could live with a Seestern as a knockabout alternative for their collection. Chances are there will be a 1500 and maybe even the chrono variant perhaps? If so I could be in. Show most people a Doxa and a Seestern they wouldnt know which was the genuine one anyway.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

The Army homages don't really bother me - as the original (Doxa) isn't a current production model. And Synchron can hardly complain about their copy being copied. The Seestern 300 does bother me , much more so than the TF, as its almost a direct copy of the 300T and for me , personally, thats a step beyond the pale ...I wouldn't really care if other folk (and lets face it 99.5% of folk wouldn't know one watch from another or care) could tell the difference or not. The big losers with the advent of Seestern and TF is likely to be Maranez.

It is interesting that Maranez's Samui Diver, with its original dial, doesn't seem to have sold well.... and people seem to be happier that TF have changed their bezel to a copy Doxa NoDeCo one rather than a, more useable, minutes or hour scale.


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## Monkwearmouth (Feb 21, 2013)

Seems to me Seestern have taken the 300 and made a close copy and then IMPROVED on it. This makes it different from the usual homage. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Monkwearmouth said:


> Seems to me Seestern have taken the 300 and made a close copy and then IMPROVED on it. This makes it different from the usual homage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We are moving away from the OT but I'd be interested to know how you feel they have improved on the 300 (price aside!!) - have a Maranez (Samui Diver) but have no experience with a Seestern.


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## Monkwearmouth (Feb 21, 2013)

8505davids said:


> We are moving away from the OT but I'd be interested to know how you feel they have improved on the 300 (price aside!!) - have a Maranez (Samui Diver) but have no experience with a Seestern.


See JOMW but :

better lume
non flared end links
drilled lugs
lumed date wheel!
all for <10% of the price

Put another way, Doxa brand aside , what is the advantage of owning the 300? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I'll give you the lume but the next two are really a personal preference rather than an improvement ...the lumed date ...hmmm can't remember the last time I needed to know the date in the middle of the night - but if I do I'll know which watch I need.... You might also have said on the plus side for the Doxa that it does have the better movement, though the Seiko also does the job well enough. As I said, I've not compared a Seestern to a Doxa in hand like you have ... against a Maranez I'd say the Maranez dial is ok but close up the finishing/look of the Doxa dial is quite a cut above and the case and bezel are just better when you have them side by side. Not that there is anything wrong with the Maranez - it is pretty good for the price but in hand there is no doubt (IMHO) the better overall watch. I would say the Maranez bezel is the most useful of any of them combining hours and minutes and if Seestern had used that format rather than being intent on a 1 to 1 copy then that would have been a plus point for them, though the polished outer part of the Doxa bezel looks much better. Importantly for me, the Doxa is also not a direct copy of someone else's product - which may or may not be an issue for some folk.

The Seestern may be better than the Maranez and may therefore compare better with the Doxa in hand - I wouldn't know. I enjoyed wearing my Black Frog the first week I had it but when I swapped to my Sharkhunter the following week - well ... the detail differences were pretty obvious. Of course whether the close up differences are worth the extra money is another personal thing....there is no doubt the Doxa homages offer pretty good value for money, especially at the Seestern price , its just a shame they are copies.

Anyway, even if a new Doxa Dartboard does finally arrive ...I sooner spend my money on another 300.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

daglesj said:


> Get the Seestern version in a few weeks for $200?


Nah, il wait for the Doxa.. even if it takes a lifetime.. #Doxafam

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## Monkwearmouth (Feb 21, 2013)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Nah, il wait for the Doxa.. even if it takes a lifetime.. #Doxafam
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Can you explain why ? 

As my old law professor said ‘convince me’ 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Monkwearmouth said:


> Can you explain why ?
> 
> As my old law professor said ‘convince me’
> 
> ...


I am a Doxa fan. Want to see the Doxa army, that simple for me really 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## Monkwearmouth (Feb 21, 2013)

reluctantsnowman said:


> I am a Doxa fan. Want to see the Doxa army, that simple for me really
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


But why will you wait a lifetime for a Doxa! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Monkwearmouth said:


> But why will you wait a lifetime for a Doxa!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's the army.. there can only be one 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Lume date wheel lol that date wheel gets a lot of uv charge hidden behind the dial


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## Monkwearmouth (Feb 21, 2013)

Monkeynuts said:


> Lume date wheel lol that date wheel gets a lot of uv charge hidden behind the dial


See JOMW. Jody is a lume junkie and a VERY critical watch reviewer. He highlights the mediocre lume of the Doxa and shows the benefits of the lume date wheel. Doxa, pay attention and raise your game or your very slender spot in the watch market place will disappear. Doxa doesn’t have the brand resilience to withstand a superior version of the same- admittedly brilliant design- produced out of China. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Sorry my bad your totally correct the homage is better


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## Monkwearmouth (Feb 21, 2013)

Monkeynuts said:


> Sorry my bad your totally correct the homage is better


Yes, for once, the homage IS better. I’ve always thought the Doxa brand renaissance unconvincing and Seestern has caught them with their trousers down. Emperors new clothes etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ohhenry1 (Jan 7, 2018)

Monkwearmouth said:


> Yes, for once, the homage IS better. I’ve always thought the Doxa brand renaissance unconvincing and Seestern has caught them with their trousers down. Emperors new clothes etc.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I own a Maranez Army, have a Seestern 62mas homage on its way to me, will almost surely own a Seestern Doxa homage in the near future, and am strongly considering buying an actual Doxa Sub 300 to celebrate a milestone in my life.

Which is all to say I've got no axe to grind.

Which is all context for my question: what exactly do you mean when you say that you think that the Doxa brand renaissance is unconvincing? And that the brand is an example of the Emperor's New Clothes?

Again, I'm half-decided to plunk down a good chunk of money on a Doxa 300 Searambler, so I'm curious if there might be reason to reconsider.

If you think that developing this discussion would derail the thread, then please feel free to PM me your answer instead.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

a modern Doxa is also a homage


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## ohhenry1 (Jan 7, 2018)

BobMartian said:


> a modern Doxa is also a homage


That's a very interesting statement!

Of course, the same could be said of any and all resuscitated brands.

So is there anything about Doxa that makes it more of an homage (i.e., somehow less legit or respect-worthy) than any other resurrected brand?

Or is the point simply that, as it has not been in business continuously, the new Doxa should be considered a Doxa in name only?


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

ohhenry1 said:


> That's a very interesting statement!
> 
> Of course, the same could be said of any and all resuscitated brands.
> 
> ...


If Doxa is a homage, there are a ton of watch companies who are homages.

Doxa as it is now is certainly not the same Doxa as it was in the 1960s. Not many brands are.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Monkwearmouth said:


> See JOMW. Jody is a lume junkie and a VERY critical watch reviewer. He highlights the mediocre lume of the Doxa and shows the benefits of the lume date wheel. Doxa, pay attention and raise your game or your very slender spot in the watch market place will disappear. Doxa doesn’t have the brand resilience to withstand a superior version of the same- admittedly brilliant design- produced out of China.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL ...OK I'll bite ....you have a Doxa ... and a Seestern I take it? Or is this based on someone's review? Lume is important in a dive watch but so called 'lume junkies' take it too far ... its a ridiculous term. Seems to me you ignore all the superior points of the Doxa. If your main requirement for a watch is lume that is very bright all night, and a need to know the date at night, then admittedly a Doxa isn't for you.

Sure, Doxa is a resurrected brand but that is very common nowadays - very few iconic products in any market are still original company owned - at least the Jenny family have a history. I would re-iterate that, in hand, there is a sizeable difference between the homages (good as they are for the price) than the product they are trying to copy. Sure you pay a hefty premium for the actual Doxa ... but that is common with all luxury (iconic?) goods. The fact that people tend to buy more than one Doxa, even at their price, tells its own story. Now, I'm only too happy to criticise Doxa when I feel the need , but whether the hefty price premium for the Doxa package is or isn't worth it to you is a personal thing - to suggest that any of the copies is a better overall watch is just not true ...pound for pound they may be....but certainly not overall.

If you are in the market for a iconic dive watch at that price point then you can't go wrong with the Doxa and few seem to regret it. If you are in the market for the general look of a Doxa at a lower price point then you can't go wrong with any of the homages.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

BobMartian said:


> a modern Doxa is also a homage


Is an Omega a Swatch?

As for the homages, I think it's only a matter of time before they start moving up in the movement quality. I would like to see an option from the usual NH35. It is amazing to see how they have improved at an almost monthly pace in terms of quality and finish. Sure you get the odd misstep (that first 300T homage with the tacky meter) but boy are they catching up. 

I've said for a while that luxury watch manufacturers are going to have to change tactics with their pricing when a huge chunk of folks aged uder 40 can't even afford their first home still. I bet the age that luxury good buyers are buying in (say Rolex/Jaguar/Omega etc.) at are getting older and older. 

I'm wondering who will break first and offer a $1000 or sub $1000 entry watch from the big prestige makers.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Time will tell - seems to be no shortage of buyers at present. With luxury brands in general keeping prices high is perceived as breeding the 'exclusivity' that some image conscious buyers love ...whereas it seems a dwindling number of people pay high prices for the quality that should guarantee...
Will the homage companies move a little more upmarket (and up-price) ? Will that not just open up a gap at the lower end for those who want the look as cheap as possible and take away the sales they are currently enjoying (as Seestern have done to Maranez)? Might work if they retain the cheaper option but there is always a limit to what people will pay for a homage. The Seiko does the job well for what most homage buyers are looking for 
Most of the top luxury brands wouldn't want a low entry point in case they 'tarnash' or cheapen their brand - LOL. They would be more likely to launch another, cheaper brand name that a bit of association would rub off on ....but who knows. Wouldn't hold your breath for a $1000 Rolex anytime.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Great conversations from us fans... but @Doxa Watches Official, why so silent?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm guessing that all Doxa would say is: we are working on something we think you will like....

I don't have the inside line I used to but I'm not completely out of the loop and I have to admit I do know something, if only just a very little bit and I can confirm that they are working on something and even from the little I know about it, I like it  



reluctantsnowman said:


> Great conversations from us fans... but @Doxa Watches Official, why so silent?


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm guessing that all Doxa would say is: we are working on something we think you will like....
> 
> I don't have the inside line I used to but I'm not completely out of the loop and I have to admit I do know something, if only just a very little bit and I can confirm that they are working on something and even from the little I know about it, I like it


Thanks doc, and to answer someone earlier, thats exactly why I am curious. Its a Doxa and am sure it would be good


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Great conversations from us fans... but @Doxa Watches Official, why so silent?


I really don't know what's going on in their minds right now.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

daglesj said:


> I really don't know what's going on in their minds right now.


But usually you do? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Weekly page to @Doxa Watches Official to respond.................


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Weekly page to @Doxa Watches Official to respond.................


You're gonna die of old age before Doxa ever responds. I'm really curious to see what they come up with, but they just refuse to communicate anything anymore and I wouldn't ever expect them too. It's a lost cause.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

CityMorgue said:


> You're gonna die of old age before Doxa ever responds. I'm really curious to see what they come up with, but they just refuse to communicate anything anymore and I wouldn't ever expect them too. It's a lost cause.


This is a war that I intend to win... also I plan to live to a ripe old age.. WHY WONT THEY TALK TO ME?


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

reluctantsnowman said:


> This is a war that I intend to win... also I plan to live to a ripe old age.. WHY WONT THEY TALK TO ME?


Good luck I guess? There's just absolutely nothing in the last couple of years that indicates Doxa gives a crap about actually trying to satisfy their customers. Their communication is even worse than the Marei era...


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

CityMorgue said:


> Good luck I guess? There's just absolutely nothing in the last couple of years that indicates Doxa gives a crap about actually trying to satisfy their customers. Their communication is even worse than the Marei era...


Its funny.. There is hardly any other brand that is this adamant about not talking to its customers, especially when you have folks like me who throw their wallets at them!!


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## ohhenry1 (Jan 7, 2018)

You guys (whom I understand to be DOXA _enthusiasts_) are really making me question whether I should buy a one. Again, I've been considering purchasing a Sub 300 to mark a milestone accomplishment in my life, but increasingly I get the impression that would be a questionable move.

So far, the sense I get is: "If you really in your heart just have to have one, go ahead and buy, but otherwise, the purchase isn't really justifiable."

And that's not for the general concept of spending $2,500+ a watch, but specifically on spending it on a Doxa . . .


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

ohhenry1 said:


> You guys (whom I understand to be DOXA _enthusiasts_) are really making me question whether I should buy a one. Again, I've been considering purchasing a Sub 300 to mark a milestone accomplishment in my life, but increasingly I get the impression that would be a questionable move.
> 
> So far, the sense I get is: "If you really in your heart just have to have one, go ahead and buy, but otherwise, the purchase isn't really justifiable."
> 
> And that's not for the general concept of spending $2,500+ a watch, but specifically on spending it on a Doxa . . .


I’ll readily admit Doxa’s don’t offer as much bang for your buck as other brands (I’m picturing Damasko or Sinn, which at 2500 USD gets you some serious tech). But at 2500 USD you can do worse than a COSC certified ETA-driven watch, be it Doxa or not.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

ohhenry1 said:


> You guys (whom I understand to be DOXA _enthusiasts_) are really making me question whether I should buy a one. Again, I've been considering purchasing a Sub 300 to mark a milestone accomplishment in my life, but increasingly I get the impression that would be a questionable move.
> 
> So far, the sense I get is: "If you really in your heart just have to have one, go ahead and buy, but otherwise, the purchase isn't really justifiable."
> 
> And that's not for the general concept of spending $2,500+ a watch, but specifically on spending it on a Doxa . . .


There are many people on this forum who love nothing more than to hurl criticisms at Doxa. It is a hobby to them. It is quite a phenomenon. I have 2 Doxa's and I have not a found a single issue with either of them. They are unique and robust and have all the royalty of Rolex where dive watches are concerned.

Dont let the haters cloud your mind.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

RSM13 said:


> There are many people on this forum who love nothing more than to hurl criticisms at Doxa. It is a hobby to them. It is quite a phenomenon. I have 2 Doxa's and I have not a found a single issue with either of them. They are unique and robust and have all the royalty of Rolex where dice watches are concerned.
> 
> Dont let the haters cloud your mind.


I have to agree. Doxa makes a damn good watch. I've never needed their customer service so I can't speak to that but the Doxa watches I've had have been top notch. Never had a single complaint ( lume not lasting very long aside) or reason to regret my purchase. 
I agree that they should cozy up to their customers a bit more but chances are that once you get your Doxa, you'll never have to deal with them again...... until you buy the next Doxa..... and the next.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

ohhenry1 said:


> You guys (whom I understand to be DOXA _enthusiasts_) are really making me question whether I should buy a one. Again, I've been considering purchasing a Sub 300 to mark a milestone accomplishment in my life, but increasingly I get the impression that would be a questionable move.
> 
> So far, the sense I get is: "If you really in your heart just have to have one, go ahead and buy, but otherwise, the purchase isn't really justifiable."
> 
> And that's not for the general concept of spending $2,500+ a watch, but specifically on spending it on a Doxa . . .


Just to add that here, you’re reading through the “Doxa Army” thread, which frankly is a novel in its own right… I don’t think that it’s justified to carry over the “negativity” from here to the purchase of a SUB 300. Those are fine watches with solid tech and fairly “safe” purchases (if you’re afraid of having a change of heart).

Just remember that the non-T has a dial which might appear surprisingly small by modern standards (see YouTube comparisons, etc,).


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Nothing wrong with most of the watches. The issue is that a few of us have realised that Doxa as a company is probably more likely just a side hobby for a few folks in a larger overall watch/corporate empire.

Therefore, you'll never get the feedback etc. you would from a fully committed company.

But you'll always get the few that think a company they bought something from are their best buddies for some reason. 

Fanboys is it?


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

daglesj said:


> Nothing wrong with most of the watches. The issue is that a few of us have realised that Doxa as a company is probably more likely just a side hobby for a few folks in a larger overall watch/corporate empire.
> 
> Therefore, you'll never get the feedback etc. you would from a fully committed company.
> 
> ...


So how did you come up with Doxa is “just a hobby”? Where do people get this stuff?

Is Rolex more responsive to the end user than Doxa is?

I have had excellent response from Doxa USA when I have had to deal with them.

Doxa makes a fantastic product and I own Rolex, Omega, Sinn, Seiko, Squale and Damasko. Am I a fanboy? Hardly. The only watch that had a manufacturing issue was the Sinn (ETA winding mech failed). But to hear others talk Sinn is built like a tank.

For all the hate Doxa gets on the forum makes me wonder why all these haters keep spending their money on Doxa products.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> So how did you come up with Doxa is “just a hobby”? Where do people get this stuff?
> 
> Is Rolex more responsive to the end user than Doxa is?
> 
> ...


Erm....well what can you say? My opinion?


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

RSM13 said:


> So how did you come up with Doxa is “just a hobby”? Where do people get this stuff?
> 
> Is Rolex more responsive to the end user than Doxa is?
> 
> ...


For those of us that have been around long enough, things have changed quite a bit. The old Doxa was very active in the forums and frequently asked our opinions/feedback on what should be released next. Did it always go as planned? No. Was the communication always that great? Definitely not. Did the old Doxa stumble on other issues? Of course.

But there's a lot more to what this new management has done that is quite irksome to us older folks of this brand have come to know for the last 20 years. Sure the new management has had some pretty good ideas, unfortunately have had some stumbles. And then there is the crazy stumbles that have come out. Couple that with the immediate radio silence from Doxa, and Doxa releasing stuff not a single person has even asked for and clearly is not popular, is it much of a surprise that people express their opinions?

Most of this criticism comes from a place of love and passion for the brand. It's hard to see something you really like stumble left and right. When you constantly see people express concerns and try to address it with Doxa, it leaves a lot to be desired. It's funny how the only people that ever get on those of us who supposedly 'hate' the brand, are generally new to the brand and don't know what the history of it was like. I've said this time and time again, but calling out problems does not mean someone hates everything about the brand. This isn't a straight black and white issue...


----------



## TexasTee (Dec 9, 2010)




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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

CityMorgue said:


> For those of us that have been around long enough, things have changed quite a bit. The old Doxa was very active in the forums and frequently asked our opinions/feedback on what should be released next. Did it always go as planned? No. Was the communication always that great? Definitely not. Did the old Doxa stumble on other issues? Of course.
> 
> But there's a lot more to what this new management has done that is quite irksome to us older folks of this brand have come to know for the last 20 years. Sure the new management has had some pretty good ideas, unfortunately have had some stumbles. And then there is the crazy stumbles that have come out. Couple that with the immediate radio silence from Doxa, and Doxa releasing stuff not a single person has even asked for and clearly is not popular, is it much of a surprise that people express their opinions?
> 
> Most of this criticism comes from a place of love and passion for the brand. It's hard to see something you really like stumble left and right. When you constantly see people express concerns and try to address it with Doxa, it leaves a lot to be desired. It's funny how the only people that ever get on those of us who supposedly 'hate' the brand, are generally new to the brand and don't know what the history of it was like. I've said this time and time again, but calling out problems does not mean someone hates everything about the brand. This isn't a straight black and white issue...


I only know what I see and experience as an avid reader of lots of brand forums on WUS and other forums. No other watch company gets the ridiculous amount of whining and complaining that Doxa receives on this forum. And lots of it is nonsensical ranting that isn’t quantified or qualified - such as the poster who stated that Doxa owners considered the brand “just a hobby”.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

RSM13 said:


> I only know what I see and experience as an avid reader of lots of brand forums on WUS and other forums. No other watch company gets the ridiculous amount of whining and complaining that Doxa receives on this forum. And lots of it is nonsensical ranting that isn’t quantified or qualified - such as the poster who stated that Doxa owners considered the brand “just a hobby”.


How do you say that statement is not qualified?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

daglesj said:


> Erm....well what can you say? My opinion?


Show me where Rolex or Omega or Seiko interacts or responds to every little niggle, *****, whine etc. on a watch forum. I'll wait.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

RSM13 said:


> Show me where Rolex or Omega or Seiko interacts or responds to every little niggle, ***, whine etc. on a watch forum. I'll wait.


You must have missed where Doxa used to be very active in the forums and frequently responded and interacted with members on this forum. They did it for almost 2 decades. Sorry if this is confusing to you and why some of us are a little perplexed as to why they don't interact. The new management even created a new account here seemingly to have more interaction in some fashion, yet they continuously remain silent. What is even the point?

Doxa themselves admit they only employ like 40 people, I'm pretty sure they can find a way.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> Show me where Rolex or Omega or Seiko interacts or responds to every little niggle, ***, whine etc. on a watch forum. I'll wait.


Facepalms. I don't own them (never will probably) so I don't care about them.

Like if I had bought a Ford car, why would I criticise BMW?

I'll wait too. 

I guess the big question is why are you seemingly so upset about this? It's just fancy watches.  Plenty of love for Doxa here, I love my 300T, just some of us don't happen to think the sun shines out of Doxa's bottom 100%. You'll never have 100% forum harmony anywhere.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

I’ve interacted with Doxa CS multiple times within the past year often changing the dial color/model once order submitted. They have been fantastic to work with. 

This is CS, not the marketing department. And either way, they don’t need to respond. It’s kinda cool when they throw out a bone of info, but to hold them to an exact date of release is unreasonable.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

So because the previous ownership did interact and the new one does not, does that mean the watches are of lesser quality? Or do you just have your feelings hurt because you aren’t getting the attention you think you deserve?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

You must have missed the bit where Rolex sell a bazillion watches whereas this forum is specific to the Doxa SUB which is sold in probably hundreds per year.

Forget about the Doxa Asia operation. There's a story behind that which isn't part of the discussion.

You joined this forum a year ago. Some of us have been here substantially longer and interacted with Doxa for approaching 20 years.

The 40 something "employees" of Doxa, cough, cough.... are under no obligation to interact with this forum. It would be nice but in all honesty I don't think they have anything to say.

Part of the function of this forum is for people to discuss the SUB, some of that discussion is praise. Some is complaints and frustration. Some of it is feedback and some of it is maybe a hope that Doxa will care about what is said and interact.

Doxa is not Rolex or Omega etc etc etc etc. News flash it was resurrected 20 years ago by a bloke in his bedroom, pretty much. I don't think things have changed that much.



RSM13 said:


> Show me where Rolex or Omega or Seiko interacts or responds to every little niggle, ***, whine etc. on a watch forum. I'll wait.


----------



## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

CityMorgue said:


> You must have missed where Doxa used to be very active in the forums and frequently responded and interacted with members on this forum. They did it for almost 2 decades. Sorry if this is confusing to you and why some of us are a little perplexed as to why they don't interact. The new management even created a new account here seemingly to have more interaction in some fashion, yet they continuously remain silent. What is even the point?
> 
> Doxa themselves admit they only employ like 40 people, I'm pretty sure they can find a way.


Maybe they shifted their attention to other media? This forum has always been toxic, even when I joined in 2006/7, so why frequent this place when you have a resident passive aggressive expert throwing daggers, other negative nancies for whatever reason, ex employees and competitors laying anti personnel mines, why bother?

They keep this forum open probably bc it is a cheap way to advertise. 

If you want to pile on a brand take it to the Aquadive forum. Talk about silence. Or get the torches, I’ve contacted Synchron a dozen times on their next release, they suck!


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> You must have missed the bit where Rolex sell a bazillion watches whereas this forum is specific to the Doxa SUB which is sold in probably hundreds per year.
> 
> Forget about the Doxa Asia operation. There's a story behind that which isn't part of the discussion.
> 
> ...


Whatever the reason...this forum is a downer...what a depressing unsatisfied bunch over here.

I am out.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Maybe they shifted their attention to other media? This forum has always been toxic, even when I joined in 2006/7, so why frequent this place when you have a resident passive aggressive expert throwing daggers, other negative nancies for whatever reason, ex employees and competitors laying anti personnel mines, why bother?
> 
> They keep this forum open probably bc it is a cheap way to advertise.
> 
> If you want to pile on a brand take it to the Aquadive forum. Talk about silence. Or get the torches, I’ve contacted Synchron a dozen times on their next release, they suck!


No kidding...the Doxa homage companies get rave reviews on here, nothing but love and adulation, but the home team gets crapped on incessantly. 

No brand is perfect but being a watch collector for some time I fail to see where Doxa warrants all this hate, especially when compared to other brands. Silliness.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Again, you have been here a year.

Here is some info for you regarding the homage companies. I have had no interaction other than buying their watches with none other than Maranez.

I asked Marabez would they produce a red dial Samui. They did, I bought it. I asked if they would make a pvd Military homage with a true cream dial. They did. I bought it, it arrived today. I asked them if they would make a BOR with flat endpieces instead of the faux BOR end pieces. They did. I've seen the pics. I'll buy one when they are available for my red Samui.

I've been asking Doxa for flat end pieces for years. Nothing. An homage company is going to do something Doxa should have considered doing years ago.

Now why should Doxa do anything I ask for? No reason at all but it should have been worth doing and showing to the forum guys to get a what do you think chaps. But I guess not.

I don't think there actually is hate for Doxa on here just as I don't think there is any particular love for the homage makers.




RSM13 said:


> No kidding...the Doxa homage companies get rave reviews on here, nothing but love and adulation, but the home team gets crapped on incessantly.
> 
> No brand is perfect but being a watch collector for some time I fail to see where Doxa warrants all this hate, especially when compared to other brands. Silliness.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Doucxa, Mayonnaise, Tacky Froggy, & Seesquirt are all homages.

The only difference is Swiss homage vs Chinese homage.

You have to decide if the Swiss version is worth 15x more.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I think the homages have been pretty fairly treated, with pros and cons fully discussed ...and similar with the Doxas.

Most negative comments contain positive suggestions. If everybody is happy on the other forums then I'm pleased for them....

When Doxa do try to communicate on this forum (and they joined again to do that) unfortunately they don't seem to make a very good job of it....


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

RSM13 said:


> No kidding...the Doxa homage companies get rave reviews on here, nothing but love and adulation, but the home team gets crapped on incessantly.
> 
> No brand is perfect but being a watch collector for some time I fail to see where Doxa warrants all this hate, especially when compared to other brands. Silliness.


How can folks how own a dozen Doxa watches or have written 10 books hate them? You are confusing the word hate with something else 

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Again, you have been here a year.
> 
> Here is some info for you regarding the homage companies. I have had no interaction other than buying their watches with none other than Maranez.
> 
> ...


Doesn’t matter how long he has been here. What a bully statement. 

People making purple Samui’s make $.75/hr.

You’ve got whole family generations making you your flat BOR end pieces, good for you. 

Take it to Affordables.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

reluctantsnowman said:


> How can folks how own a dozen Doxa watches or have written 10 books hate them? You are confusing the word hate with something else
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Same reason somebody puts Dr. in front of their name. 
Dr. of watches? 
It’s called the notice me syndrome. Some people have to be the ‘expert’.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

daglesj said:


> Facepalms. I don't own them (never will probably) so I don't care about them.
> 
> Like if I had bought a Ford car, why would I criticise BMW?
> 
> ...


I am not upset but it would be nice to have a positive (for the most part) discussion and interaction with other Doxa owners instead of coming here and listen to the incessant whining of a bunch of spoiled babies having a temper tantrum because Doxa ownership doesn't communicate and respond to every self important Doxa snobs rants.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

So here's a tip. If you don't like what people post, just block them. It's easy. I'm sure most people who have been on watchuseek for any length of time have blocked the the occasional obnoxious git. You never get to see what they say and never get upset if they verbally attack you. You don't like the self important Doxa snobs, hell I'm probably one, so block away.



RSM13 said:


> I am not upset but it would be nice to have a positive (for the most part) discussion and interaction with other Doxa owners instead of coming here and listen to the incessant whining of a bunch of spoiled babies having a temper tantrum because Doxa ownership doesn't communicate and respond to every self important Doxa snobs rants.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

We are back. It'll be great to interact with you and be as close to our customers/followers. 
Or something along those lines from the Doxa team. So where is the interaction? People have questions, but still no answers. This is what irks, promises that are not kept. Customers are fulfilling their end of the bargain by purchasing. Where's the interaction from the Doxa team.?
No one wants Doxa to be in their back pockets, but just a little assurance that they are listening to the fan base and are working on the little gripes that people need addressing wouldn't go amiss would it. 
Doxa products are great for the most part, it's the management team that leaves a lot to be desired imo.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

@Doxa Watches Official - Any updates on the Doxa Army?


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Can I just ask...are we playing 'Stonehenge' tonight?


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## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

reluctantsnowman said:


> @Doxa Watches Official - Any updates on the Doxa Army?


Bump


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

lab-guy said:


> Bump


Woot woot.. Mike enters the party... 
Two things are certain
1) Sun rises on the east
2) Mike & I are buying the Doxa Army


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Woot woot.. Mike enters the party...
> Two things are certain
> 1) Sun rises on the east
> 2) Mike & I are buying the Doxa Army


Lol that made me smile


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## Contaygious (May 9, 2014)

I really need an army because I know 15 friends who got the synchron and I passed...help me out please doxa.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Crazy Cajun said:


> ex employees and competitors laying anti personnel mines, why bother?


I remember this. I even had that person contact me privately on Reddit to express his dissatisfaction with the brand and to insinuate my entire watch was made in China. It was obsessive and a more than a little creepy.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

How's that Doxa Army release coming along?


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

The contracted it out to Seestern...


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Watchout63 said:


> How's that Doxa Army release coming along?


Not all heroes wear capes.. Thank you for asking the most important question of 2022


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

Watchout63 said:


> How's that Doxa Army release coming along?



I'm not holding my breath. But I've been proven wrong before.


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## montilier (Nov 3, 2012)

I don't think there will be a Doxa Army in the near future. Since April 2021 Synchron seems to be the sole owner of the specific design of the dial and hands.
Session-Timeout - Eidg. Institut für Geistiges Eigentum
Doxa failed to protect the design before. So without consent of Synchron Doxa can't use this specific design anymore.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

montilier said:


> I don't think there will be a Doxa Army in the near future. Since April 2021 Synchron seems to be the sole owner of the specific design of the dial and hands.
> Session-Timeout - Eidg. Institut für Geistiges Eigentum
> Doxa failed to protect the design before. So without consent of Synchron Doxa can't use this specific design anymore.


Your link goes to an error page. Maybe try again?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## montilier (Nov 3, 2012)

Thanks 
Link goes regularly into time out. So try this link
Home - Swiss Federal Institute of Intellectual Property
Then search for "swissreg", go to "swissreg", go to "Design", then search under "Name" Synchron or under "Register no." 145877 "
Hope this works


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Do Seestern can basically copy Doxa Sub designs but for some Reason Doxa can’t reproduce it’s own design and call it Army instead of Military?

doesn’t sound right to me.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

An interesting thought, and one I haven’t seen before. Would certainly explain the radio silence if they’ve run into legal issues with the design.

But man, what a load of bull crap that would be. I’d be _pissed_ if I were Doxa if that’s the case.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Sorry, I'm not buying it

there are 3 main ways to protect something

Copyright - which is usually for creative works - books are copyright
Patent - something like a NoDeCo bezel - but they are limited duration and any Doxa had have expired so a NoDeCo bezel can be freely copied
Trademark - usually for Logos, product labels or packaging 

Doxa haven't released an Army yet because from what I know they are working on something that is a modern update to the design. The vintage look has been done to death by Synchron, Maranez, Seestern and probably others. Doxa missed that boat.

Again, from what I know, they will release an Army model in a limited edition.




montilier said:


> I don't think there will be a Doxa Army in the near future. Since April 2021 Synchron seems to be the sole owner of the specific design of the dial and hands.
> Session-Timeout - Eidg. Institut für Geistiges Eigentum
> Doxa failed to protect the design before. So without consent of Synchron Doxa can't use this specific design anymore.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Sorry, I'm not buying it
> 
> there are 3 main ways to protect something
> 
> ...


Interesting news. If this is what Doxa is doing, it's probably a smart move at this point I agree, the vintage design has been played out already so a fresh design would potentially bring much more interest. Any ideas on a price point?


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## NS1 (May 12, 2015)

@Flyingdoctor is right, it's not a legal issue that's delaying Doxa. They could put out an exact copy of the Military, but with the Doxa name, logo, etc. any time they want. The only way they'd get in trouble is if they made counterfeit goods (e.g. branding is Synchron Military) or violated a patent, which is not applicable here.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Sorry, I'm not buying it
> 
> there are 3 main ways to protect something
> 
> ...


Think its a good idea to update the design and bring something new/different to the market. Very true that Doxa missed the boat on the Army so this makes perfect sense and I look forward to seeing what they come up with - I'm hoping a tweaked design and a brighter mix of colours than Maranez managed - though I admit to quite liking the battleship grey (should that have been a Navy??) but waited too long and they were sold out. Mixed feelings about it possibly being a limited edition.
Interesting times - wonder if we will see an Army before we see a Benthos .... can see my bank balance taking a hit again this year...


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

From what I know, the chances are it will be very limited and quite expensive


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Ah well, Benthos it is then!


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## 19thnervousbreakdown (Dec 1, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Doxa haven't released an Army yet because from what I know they are working on something that is a modern update to the design


that sounds nice! An Army with a modern tweak, otherwise it will always be the Army which was released after the „original“ Re Issue by Synchron…



Flyingdoctor said:


> From what I know, the chances are it will be very limited and quite expensive


that sounds not very nice and also not very Smart… the demand is here, come on Doxa. The people want a new not limited Army….

you can do better than another pricy LE and after the success of it releasing it in a normal steel one (like the 600T, which is very nice IMO)


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## daveyoha (Jan 22, 2016)

Flyingdoctor said:


> From what I know, the chances are it will be very limited and quite expensive


$4,500 USD the Oracle foretold


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## jstancato (Sep 30, 2020)

Saw this posted online. Hopefully it’s real!


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

jstancato said:


> View attachment 16859211
> Saw this posted online. Hopefully it’s real!


It is - DOXA Army, stainless steel bezel

It’s 2k and unlimited. 
It’s also slimmer than the 300t it’s based on. It should wear great.


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## montilier (Nov 3, 2012)

Movement with 25 Jewels according to website - so no Sellita 🤔


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

montilier said:


> Movement with 25 Jewels according to website - so no Sellita


Articles say 2824


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

Nice ones and correct price


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Ah - I see the bezel on the green option is bronze.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Pics from Geneva:








Doxa: Armee-Reform mit der Army


Das Wichtigste vorneweg: Es ist der Bieler Marke hoch anzurechnen, dass sie der Versuchung widerstanden hat, die umgehend ausverkaufte Army vom letzten April (Ref. 785.00.031.20) anschliessend in e…




diveintowatches.com


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## twintop (Nov 16, 2012)

Nice work from Doxa. Although the green bezel looks cool I'm gonna go for the historically more accurate black dial.


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## Cybotron (Dec 7, 2006)

Not bad


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## jstancato (Sep 30, 2020)

Do I need both a Synchron Military and a Doxa Army? 🤔


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

While overall I like it, especially the base steel version, the bronze is a bit of a miss for me. Not for anything bad, but just aesthetically, it doesn't look right to me. I think it would've been better if they committed to a full bronze version.

In fact, this would've been a great watch to bring back a PVD coating to really finish it out. This dial lends itself well to being blacked out like that.

My one minor nitpick is the price. It's literally the same as the 300T, and I think it would've been better suited to be priced as such. There isn't $200 more value in the dial of the watch. The bronze, I think is more than reasonable. Now, before anyone jumps me, I still think for what Doxa has done with the pricing of different models, it's still not bad in any way. Just IMO nothing to suggest it's worth 200 more than the 300T.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

jstancato said:


> Do I need both a Synchron Military and a Doxa Army? 🤔


Do you NEED any mechanical watch? Yet one costing 4-digit figures and above?


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

CityMorgue said:


> While overall I like it, especially the base steel version, the bronze is a bit of a miss for me. Not for anything bad, but just aesthetically, it doesn't look right to me. I think it would've been better if they committed to a full bronze version.
> 
> In fact, this would've been a great watch to bring back a PVD coating to really finish it out. This dial lends itself well to being blacked out like that.
> 
> My one minor nitpick is the price. It's literally the same as the 300T, and I think it would've been better suited to be priced as such. There isn't $200 more value in the dial of the watch. The bronze, I think is more than reasonable. Now, before anyone jumps me, I still think for what Doxa has done with the pricing of different models, it's still not bad in any way. Just IMO nothing to suggest it's worth 200 more than the 300T.


It does have a ceramic bezel, which you could argue is a differentiator. I do agree that’s probably not worth the $200 delta though.

All in all, I quite like this release from Doxa. Have been expecting it for some time now, and I think they delivered just fine. Will be interesting to see some side-by-side comparisons with the 300 and 300T.


----------



## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

CityMorgue said:


> While overall I like it, especially the base steel version, the bronze is a bit of a miss for me. Not for anything bad, but just aesthetically, it doesn't look right to me. I think it would've been better if they committed to a full bronze version.
> 
> In fact, this would've been a great watch to bring back a PVD coating to really finish it out. This dial lends itself well to being blacked out like that.
> 
> My one minor nitpick is the price. It's literally the same as the 300T, and I think it would've been better suited to be priced as such. There isn't $200 more value in the dial of the watch. The bronze, I think is more than reasonable. Now, before anyone jumps me, I still think for what Doxa has done with the pricing of different models, it's still not bad in any way. Just IMO nothing to suggest it's worth 200 more than the 300T.


I'm in agreement, though I'm not a PVD fan. Dial-wise the Doxa Dartboard isn't really for me but I quite liked the shiny gold bezel. Being Farer-esque bronze, I don't think I'll like it once it dulls down - unlike Farer, perhaps just too much dull bronze .... still, the finish won't wear off from use like a plating might and its different. Might come back to it in a year or so once there are plenty of pics of it dulled down but I think it might always remind me of cheap brass plated cases where the chrome plating has worn off.

Should have priced it the same as the 300T with perhaps another £100 or so for the bronze bezel. But its not a big difference.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> It does have a ceramic bezel, which you could argue is a differentiator. I do agree that’s probably not worth the $200 delta though.
> 
> All in all, I quite like this release from Doxa. Have been expecting it for some time now, and I think they delivered just fine. Will be interesting to see some side-by-side comparisons with the 300 and 300T.


Hmm, fair enough on the ceramic bezel. I suppose I can see that as for the price increase.



8505davids said:


> I'm in agreement, though I'm not a PVD fan. I quite liked the shiny gold bezel but being Farer-esque bronze I don't think I'll like it once it dulls down - unlike Farer perhaps just too much dull bronze .... still, the finish won't wear off from use like a plating might and its different. Might come back to it in a year or so once there are plenty of pics of it dulled down.
> 
> Should have priced it the same as the 300T with perhaps another £100 or so for the bronze bezel. But its not a big difference.


I think that's where I'm not a full fan of just the bezel being in bronze. I don't think after time the patina on the bronze is going to mesh super well with the stainless. We will see if someone buys it and posts what it looks like after some time. This is why I think they should've committed to the full bronze. I do kind of like the look of a full bronze watch that starts to develop patina.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

While I agree that it’s more or less the same as a 300t it’s not at all uncommon in the industry to put a premium on a ceramic bezel insert - I don’t personally value it higher though - I’m not surprised that it’s a little more expensive.


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## WatchThinker (Dec 3, 2012)

Y'know - The idea of e Brass and Green on the Green Rubber really appealed to me. But, seeing the first pics - I think it is a bit of a mess. A mix of metals. A mix of colors. For some insane reason, they didn't put the ratchet clasp on the Beads of Rice, but still used a 300t case. They needed to brass-up the whole case, like Tudor or Baltic did.

I'm not really great on first impressions with watches and I'm lousy at judging them on Instagram pics from vendors / reviewers. However, my initial thoughts on this one is a pass. 

Once you guys post some genuine wrist shots, I might be swayed. You're the better source.


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## Dahle (Feb 29, 2020)

twintop said:


> Nice work from Doxa. Although the green bezel looks cool I'm gonna go for the historically more accurate black dial.


That would be like preferring a black submariner over a kermit for the same reason. Very valid, just that the words “historically accurate” may be too restrictive. I also like the black more, nonetheless 😉. 
I do think the Doxa name on the dial, sends the Synchron watch to the homage category.


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## BSwed (Jul 14, 2021)

WatchThinker said:


> For some insane reason, they didn't put the ratchet clasp on the Beads of Rice, but still used a 300t case.


Well, they didn't use the 300T case... This is a thinner,slimmer case.


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## WatchThinker (Dec 3, 2012)

BSwed said:


> Well, they didn't use the 300T case... This is a thinner,slimmer case.


Excellent! I'd missed that. I'd still have argued for the other clasp. I love mine on the 300T ...my favorite bracelet.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

WatchThinker said:


> Y'know - The idea of e Brass and Green on the Green Rubber really appealed to me. But, seeing the first pics - I think it is a bit of a mess. A mix of metals. A mix of colors. For some insane reason, they didn't put the ratchet clasp on the Beads of Rice, but still used a 300t case. They needed to brass-up the whole case, like Tudor or Baltic did.
> 
> I'm not really great on first impressions with watches and I'm lousy at judging them on Instagram pics from vendors / reviewers. However, my initial thoughts on this one is a pass.
> 
> Once you guys post some genuine wrist shots, I might be swayed. You're the better source.


All the pictures I have seen clearly show that the bracelet is including the ratcheting clasp.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

BSwed said:


> Well, they didn't use the 300T case... This is a thinner,slimmer case.


I think it’s actually the same case but a slimmer case back - at least that’s how it looks in pictures so far.
I think it would make sense given the lowered water resistance.


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

BSwed said:


> Well, they didn't use the 300T case... This is a thinner,slimmer case.


It has the HRV so it's most likely the same case and bracelet and strap as the 300T, it wouldn't make sense making a new case for a model with only 2 versions, at least so far, and what is perhaps more of a niche watch/dial. The different in height perhaps comes from a slimmer (height-wise) bezel?






Edit: Edited the text and removed that the 300t has a dome crystal, which it doesn't, and added the speculation that the height difference perhaps is due to the bezel.


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## WatchThinker (Dec 3, 2012)

MKN said:


> All the pictures I have seen clearly show that the bracelet is including the ratcheting clasp.


Hi - So, it's now saying "ratchetting extension" in the description, which I didn't see this morning ( either they were updating - or, it was kinda early I missed it ). The bracelet being depicted underneath the watch in the accessories is a non-ratchetting clasp, but it is also the 600. The website might still be getting updated for the down below stuff. For me, this makes an enormous difference. Thanks!

I was looking here: DOXA Army, bronze bezel


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## WatchThinker (Dec 3, 2012)

Snulle said:


> It has the HRV so it's most likely the same case and bracelet and strap as the 300T but it has a flat crystal instead of a slightly domed one like 300T.


IMHO: The bronze/green actually looks much, much better in this video than the pics I saw on launch.


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## BSwed (Jul 14, 2021)

Snulle said:


> It has the HRV so it's most likely the same case and bracelet and strap as the 300T but it has a flat crystal instead of a slightly domed one like 300T.


Hm, I hope you are wrong. I'd admit that this latest info that the bracelet has the 300T style clasp is making me uncertain. But domed crystal on 300T - that must be ever so slightly - I've always seen it as a flat crystal.


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## BSwed (Jul 14, 2021)

MKN said:


> I think it’s actually the same case but a slimmer case back - at least that’s how it looks in pictures so far.
> I think it would make sense given the lowered water resistance.


But can a slimmer caseback make that much difference in height? Maybe combined with the suggestion from @Snulle regarding the crystal. Anyway I'm still hoping for a redesigned case  Didn't reviewers say that the limited edition had a special case design?


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

BSwed said:


> Hm, I hope you are wrong. I'd admit that this latest info that the bracelet has the 300T style clasp is making me uncertain. But domed crystal on 300T - that must be ever so slightly - I've always seen it as a flat crystal.


I have to admit that I don't own a 300T, I just based it on the information in the video @ 3:12 and assumed that the height difference comes from a flat crystal on the Army vs a domed (as mentioned in the video) on 300T. I'm not sure it would make sense to create an entirely new case for the Army which only has two versions, at lease so far, and with it's dial perhaps is a bit of a niche watch, but I could be wrong.

Edit: Reading a review of the 300T now it seems it actually has a flat crystal. It says the bezel is quite prominent, could the height difference come from a slimmer (height-wise) bezel?


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

WatchThinker said:


> Hi - So, it's now saying "ratchetting extension" in the description, which I didn't see this morning ( either they were updating - or, it was kinda early I missed it ). The bracelet being depicted underneath the watch in the accessories is a non-ratchetting clasp, but it is also the 600. The website might still be getting updated for the down below stuff. For me, this makes an enormous difference. Thanks!
> 
> I was looking here: DOXA Army, bronze bezel


The products at the bottom aren’t related to what you are looking at unfortunately, that can be a little misleading


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Snulle said:


> It has the HRV so it's most likely the same case and bracelet and strap as the 300T but it has a flat crystal instead of a slightly domed one like 300T.


The 300t never had a domed crystal - the 1200t did however.


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## Snulle (Apr 15, 2011)

MKN said:


> The 300t never had a domed crystal - the 1200t did however.


I know that now  I will update my original post.


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## Pacificwatchlife (5 mo ago)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> The DOXA Army is getting back. Stay tuned.
> 
> View attachment 15757385
> 
> ...


So fun to see this over a year later as I'm just finding out about this watch.


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## zignik145 (Aug 19, 2016)

Just arrived


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## ScholarsInk (Apr 7, 2009)

zignik145 said:


> Just arrived
> View attachment 16976320


Does your dial shake when you pull the crown to set the watch? I sent mine back today for that reason. Discovered it right when I went to set it to wear the watch. 

I’m scared the problem might be widespread. Thinking it might be safer to request a refund than an exchange/repair, and then I could rebuy the watch down the line when any initial issues are worked out.


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## zignik145 (Aug 19, 2016)

ScholarsInk said:


> Does your dial shake when you pull the crown to set the watch? I sent mine back today for that reason. Discovered it right when I went to set it to wear the watch.
> 
> I’m scared the problem might be widespread. Thinking it might be safer to request a refund than an exchange/repair, and then I could rebuy the watch down the line when any initial issues are worked out.


no there are no dial issues. Everything looks good 12 hours in


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## ScholarsInk (Apr 7, 2009)

zignik145 said:


> no there are no dial issues. Everything looks good 12 hours in


Shame I got a dud. I hope they don't make a fuss about the return. I've never had a watch with this issue before.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

ScholarsInk said:


> Shame I got a dud. I hope they don't make a fuss about the return. I've never had a watch with this issue before.


I’m sure you’ll be fine, you’re dealing with a real manufacturing defect they’ll take it back.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Haven't opened an Army to see if things have changed but this is how Doxa usually do things. Note the small screw at about 9'oclock. You can just about see another at 3 o'clock under the rotor. These screws attach the dial / movement combination to the retaining ring. Once that happens there is no chance of any movement: laterally or vertically when the caseback is screwed down.










If you forget the screws or the retaining ring, then it is flopa-lopa-lot city........

I'm guessing it's the screws that were forgotten about.


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## Doxa_Duck (2 mo ago)

Are there any aftermarket straps that would fit the Army just like the original with the curved shape between the lugs? IDK to go BOR or strap? 
Do these come up for sale allot on the second hand market?


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## ScholarsInk (Apr 7, 2009)

Doxa_Duck said:


> Do these come up for sale allot on the second hand market?


The watch has been out for two weeks…


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## Doxa_Duck (2 mo ago)

ScholarsInk said:


> The watch has been out for two weeks…


Was referring to the t300 strap and bracelet… now I know the army does not fit those.


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## NS1 (May 12, 2015)

It was a few weeks ago when Doxa was touting on social media that it was shipping out the new Army to all the pre-orders. Thought we would see some pictures here, but . . . crickets (other than the one with the loose dial). Makes me wonder if initial orders were generally pretty low or it was just not a popular pickup with the people that tend to post here. Or, maybe Doxa is more behind in shipping these out than we realize.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

NS1 said:


> It was a few weeks ago when Doxa was touting on social media that it was shipping out the new Army to all the pre-orders. Thought we would see some pictures here, but . . . crickets (other than the one with the loose dial). Makes me wonder if initial orders were generally pretty low or it was just not a popular pickup with the people that tend to post here. Or, maybe Doxa is more behind in shipping these out than we realize.


Eager to see pictures in real life


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## ChrisWMT (Dec 4, 2018)

Anyone out there?


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## NS1 (May 12, 2015)

ChrisWMT said:


> Anyone out there?


I don't think any of the regular posters bought one. It's not like we're seeing them in the Show Your Doxa threat but not here. And, it's been months since they were shipped.


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## Liscon (Sep 26, 2021)

Not sure if this has been previously mentioned in the thread but it would be great if Doxa could release a DLC version of the standard production watch.

Given that the 1st picture in the thread was a blacked out Army and it was posted by Doxa themselves, I think it's highly likely that an all black watch will be coming out in 2023.


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## watch.vana (9 mo ago)

Oh I have one. Have been just busy with the kiddos. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watch.vana (9 mo ago)

It’s a super nice watch. I have tiny wrists but it does wear nice. The dial blends from far away but overall with the hands and bezel works great. Green is very dark and passes as black. Anything else I can answer I will do my best. 












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## faiz (Jul 15, 2013)

watch.vana said:


> It’s a super nice watch. I have tiny wrists but it does wear nice. The dial blends from far away but overall with the hands and bezel works great. Green is very dark and passes as black. Anything else I can answer I will do my best.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please share more pics! Haha


Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

A far cry from the professional dials that I'm used to.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Seikonut1967 said:


> A far cry from the professional dials that I'm used to.
> View attachment 17140108


It is. It is also a little jarring to see a Doxa dial being so overwhelmingly black and white - I find it a little hard to get used to (in pictures at least). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Seikonut1967 said:


> A far cry from the professional dials that I'm used to.
> View attachment 17140108


I like it let me know when you get bored with it Mark and I will buy it off you, how do you like it compared to the synchron version I sold you?


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Monkeynuts said:


> I like it let me know when you get bored with it Mark and I will buy it off you, how do you like it compared to the synchron version I sold you?


In truth, this is streets ahead in terms of build quality. I've handled a fair few Doxa models, and I reckon this is the best put together one of the lot 👍


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Seikonut1967 said:


> In truth, this is streets ahead in terms of build quality. I've handled a fair few Doxa models, and I reckon this is the best put together one of the lot 👍


Cool can’t wait to see it I give it month before you get the itch for something else lol
i did see it in the watches of Swiss on regent street last week but was in the case and couldn’t be asked to do the whole salesperson spiel


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Monkeynuts said:


> Cool can’t wait to see it I give it month before you get the itch for something else lol


You could be right 🤣🤣🤣


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