# Is Helbros a top brand mid or low?



## watch origins

I keep seeing them on Ebay reasonably cheep less than $20 perfect for me Budget $45). What I am asking is are they simply not desired like Longings and Omega or are they like my Solar (Rolex Brand), good watch, good movement but not a valuable collectible like Oyster. I am trying to rock some knowledge please bare with me if I am wrong. I am interested in waring them so the value is immaterial to me. I do wonder if they did anything to stand out in the field even if they made their own movements. Thanks Watch Origins


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## Niccolo

If you do a search on the forum you should find some info about them. They are the vintage equivalent of Invicta.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/short-history-helbros-295220.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/helbros-wind-up-17-jewel-seeking-more-information-352474.html


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## artb

With an accumulation of 70+ fine condition and variety of mechanical Helbros 1940-70 I can assure you they supplied many very good ones. That is why you will see a few offered $200+. I have one with nice Swiss movement, mans large case, and diamonds marked Helzberg, major jewelry retailer. Their Regency marked ones would be worlds best $20. purchase. When buying make sure the movement is clearly visible to help assure quality.


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## Janne

Eqvivalent of Invicta my arse.....
Come on, you can not compare!

Good, solid watches, using good, solid movements, mostly

The Ford of watches.


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## ulackfocus

watch origins said:


> I keep seeing them on Ebay reasonably cheep less than $20


I think you answered your own question with the above statement dude. Do you see Rolex, Omega, JLC, VC, Patek, etc selling for $20 on eBay? No, you don't. If Helbros watches frequently sell for $20, then they're in the same league as other watches that sell for $20.


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## artb

I have many because the market is poor because of lack knowledge about their good ones so a careful collector servicer got no ebay bidding. My wife for 56 years worked in Omaha at Nebraska savings& Loan at age 16 near the Helbros store on best Omaha location. Helbros had stores in major cities 1950+&- so had to sell wide range of prices thus also varying qualities.


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## Edge of Midnight

May not be worth much but certainly good looking. Here's my swiss ebauche 7 jewel ferris wheel so called because of the Rhinestone hour markers.


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## Sean779

Janne said:


> The Ford of watches.


certainly sounds better and more apt than the alternative :-!.


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## artb

Low jewel count and glass diamonds obviously do not mean cheapest quality in the preceding.


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## nsmike

Janne said:


> Eqvivalent of Invicta my arse.....
> Come on, you can not compare!
> 
> Good, solid watches, using good, solid movements, mostly
> 
> The Ford of watches.


Janne perhaps you should read the article I wrote. What I said was that their business model was similar to Invicta's today. They made a lot of different watches from low grade too pretty good and changed frequently. Because there are no records, you can't be sure of what you're getting, unless you can look at the movement in person.


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## gatorcpa

artb said:


> I have many because the market is poor because of lack knowledge about their good ones so a careful collector servicer got no bidding. My wife for 56 years worked in Omaha at Nebraska savings& Loan at at age 16 near the Helbros store on best retail St. Helbros had stores in major cities 1950+&- so had to sell wide range of prices thus qualities.


And therein lies the problem. Helbros was an assembler of watches. They bought movements of varying quality from many Swiss manufacturers. You have done your homework and know which models have the better movements. Most people aren't going to know this.

Back in 1949, Consumer Reports did a report on watches. A copy of this is out on the internet and may be found here:

http://www.bortolot.com/watches/Page_1.html

At the end of the report (page 6) there is a listing of brands as rated by an independent watchmaker contracted by CU at the time. Helbros as a brand was below the median. But again, that is the impression of the Helbros brand as a whole, not any one particular watch model or movement.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa


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## Watchbreath

<| Fifty years ago, I won't have a Helbros even on a bet.


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## watch origins

So it is safe to say that I need to know the movement and condition to consider getting one.


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## Janne

nsmike said:


> Janne perhaps you should read the article I wrote. What I said was that their business model was similar to Invicta's today. They made a lot of different watches from low grade too pretty good and changed frequently. Because there are no records, you can't be sure of what you're getting, unless you can look at the movement in person.


I will read it. Can you also say that the business model is similar to Rolex (but they have only 2 lines) Rolex + Tudor?

Just joking.

Many / most watch makers today are just assemblers. OK, if they use Swiss movements, they do not have the large variety of movement manufacturers (only 2 today) as in the old days, but they do have a large variety of quality within the 2 makers. ( within the ETA products, not sure about the other one)


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## Sean779

gatorcpa said:


> Back in 1949, Consumer Reports did a report on watches. A copy of this is out on the internet and may be found here:
> 
> http://www.bortolot.com/watches/Page_1.html
> 
> At the end of the report (page 6) there is a listing of brands as rated by an independent watchmaker contracted by CU at the time. Helbros as a brand was below the median. But again, that is the impression of the Helbros brand as a whole, not any one particular watch model or movement.


got to love Consumer Reports, even though most people don't. The style of no bs CR writing is very much the same in 1949 is it was in 1990, when it started to loosen and jazz up a bit.


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## John MS

watch origins said:


> I keep seeing them on Ebay reasonably cheep less than $20 perfect for me Budget $45). What I am asking is are they simply not desired like Longings and Omega or are they like my Solar (Rolex Brand), good watch, good movement but not a valuable collectible like Oyster. I am trying to rock some knowledge please bare with me if I am wrong. I am interested in waring them so the value is immaterial to me. I do wonder if they did anything to stand out in the field even if they made their own movements. Thanks Watch Origins


It depends on whether you are looking at recent or vintage production. Recent production is equivalent with Croton, Invicta and other modestly priced watches. Older Helbros are probably equivalent with the Invicta watches of old and other mid-range swiss watches. Typically they are nicely designed with reliable accurate movements.


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## pej

helbros usually put the jewel count on the dial, so if you find a good looking one with 21j on the dial, you'll end up with a pretty decent 21jewel swiss movement. much much better quality than a $20 timex!


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## artb

Interesting and good to see pros and cons about Helbros. 67 0f the 100 in the box from collector renovator are Helbros 1950+&- 10 years?
None are dial marked for jewels and most are nice originals. I do not know when Helbros quit, but probably later models were marked for jewels. These include few 6j, mostly 17j, some 21j. These have the advantage of careful choice by the collector who seemed to prefer older.
There are many dial names. Invincible is common. All have clean and lube and run like they should.


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## babyboomer1001

ulackfocus said:


> I think you answered your own question with the above statement dude. Do you see Rolex, Omega, JLC, VC, Patek, etc selling for $20 on eBay? No, you don't. If Helbros watches frequently sell for $20, then they're in the same league as other watches that sell for $20.[/QUOTE
> 
> You are clearly guessing and clearly wrong about these watches being worth only about $20. I have a Vintage Helbros, probably from the 20s or 30s, based on its style and, it was appraised at $850 in about 2009. It is 10K rolled gold, including the strap and has three rectangular shaped rubies for the numbers 3, 9 and 12 and tiny diamonds, very tiny, for the other numbers. It gets numerous compliments. You cannot value all vintage watches at one price, disregarding the numerous factors that need to be taken into account such as era (decade), decoration or embellishments, material, condition, name, etc. My watch keeps perfect time and is clearly not a cheaply made watch. You cannot even buy a cheap Japanese movement for $20 these days. So, if you manage to get a good vintage watch for $20, consider yourself lucky and assume that all vintage watches can be purchased and are worth only $20.


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## gatorcpa

babyboomer1001 said:


> You are clearly guessing and clearly wrong about these watches being worth only about $20. I have a Vintage Helbros, probably from the 20s or 30s, based on its style and, it was appraised at $850 in about 2009. It is 10K rolled gold, including the strap and has three rectangular shaped rubies for the numbers 3, 9 and 12 and tiny diamonds, very tiny, for the other numbers.


I put very little faith in appraisals, particularly when done for insurance purposes. I'm sure your watch is very, very nice, but there is no way it would sell for the "appraised" value. Now if it were stolen, you would want to show the highest value possible, to make sure that your insurance company will pay for a replacement.

Your watch is likely worth only the value of the gems. Some watch companies used higher quality stones than one would expect, so anything is possible. In such a situation the watch is not really being valued as a watch at all, only as a piece of jewelry. Most ladies "cocktail" watches fall under this category as well.

Like any collectible, an item is only worth what someone else will pay for it.

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa


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## watch origins

Been almost a year and there is a comment wow. You passed over the first rule for the value of anything, "It is worth as much as you are willing to spend on it". I am wearing a Britex on my wrist now that I bought for $10 because it ran. Had a COA and it works great for months now. We collect watches because we like them and we buy within our means. You must also consider area and market. If you you buy from a guy and he does not care too much what he gets them for, that also plays into the cheapness of the item.


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## evozine

I only have one Helbros, I suppose it is a low end watch. I traded three very low end 32mm watches, perhaps that makes this watch a low-mid level watch. I really like it, and it keeps great time- enough said:


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## RonD.

Probably wouldn't be fair to say that all their watches are crap. I have a great military one with an 820b movement:
















and a cool Mickey Mouse Helbros with a high grade German PUW automatic movement.

Having worked on many of them, I feel the average quality is about the same or slightly below that of an average Bulova or Benrus (talking about dials, movements, cases, etc...).


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## jayvee

gatorcpa said:


> Back in 1949, Consumer Reports did a report on watches. A copy of this is out on the internet and may be found here:
> 
> http://www.bortolot.com/watches/Page_1.html


This link is dead. Does anyone have a copy if this report ?


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## Tony C.

Here's a nice electric Helbros that I've had for some time...


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## Watchman890215

watch origins said:


> I keep seeing them on Ebay reasonably cheep less than $20 perfect for me Budget $45). What I am asking is are they simply not desired like Longings and Omega or are they like my Solar (Rolex Brand), good watch, good movement but not a valuable collectible like Oyster. I am trying to rock some knowledge please bare with me if I am wrong. I am interested in waring them so the value is immaterial to me. I do wonder if they did anything to stand out in the field even if they made their own movements. Thanks Watch Origins


Well I have a helsbro watch it's pretty nice but no one is collecting them what's weird is they are rare for sure


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## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! We would really appreciate some pictures. As for rarity, yes, they are not the most common brand - but there are enough of them around to make it onto this forum relatively regularly. Which is more than can be said of many microbrands that pervade this corner of Watchuseek.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Border-Reiver

Well this is a discussion about low level merchandise. It really doesn't mean anything if Helbros made something from cheap to better, it's nothing which can be considered under the aspect of particular value. The OP metioned a budget of $45, which already sets the limits.

Yes, there are watches out there overpaid on one site and underestimated on the other. But in this budget range, you find oodles of good and solid watches (if not worn out or damaged over time).

The price of a watch is not equal to the value of a watchmaking company overall. The one dollar watches of the past, reliable and within reasonable limits when telling the time, made a watch possible for millions of people who otherwise couldn't afford one. There were one of the pillars supporting the industrial age. Who has given the fun to ride around in a car for so many, a VW Beetle or a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow?

I also have some below $100 watches in my collection, especially TIMEX electric- and electronic watches. Timex has made one billion (billion, not million!) watches between 1950 and 1980 alone, some 133,000 every single working day. That is impressive! That is a powerful company if you also look at the production- and selling power, the organization and everthing, including the many people Timex gave employment. A watch selling for 15million Dollars is impressive as a timepiece (perhaps only worth 5 million), but every idiot with enough money paying a few top watchmakers can have such a thing done.

One thing however should not be forgotten: Every mechanical watch needs a service periodically, even if unused because of dried in oils. If you want to wear such a watch, you have to consider this cost on top of it and this is never justified for a $20 watch, unless it's a family heritage. That's an important element when buying a used ROLEX watch. $1,00 for a service is justified for a $10,000 watch. The waiting period of 6 month+ lets those people (who want or 'must' have such a timepiece) buy three or four of them to wear in the meantime. You can also be very relaxed with such a purchase. Whatever the seller claims, give it away for a service first (Rolex does a complete dis-assembly and re-assembly and also changes parts if necassary). So 10% on top give you a watch in a like new state. $85 on top of a $20 watch is nonsense. And if the seller claims 'running fine', he perhaps has simply sprayed the movement with WD40 or has dipped it in cleaning alcohol.

Of course, there is a long list of watches between Rolex and cheap, but considering the ratio service/value of the watch (before and after) is an important factor when WEARING the watch. Stacking it away in a collection is another issue.


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## Enfield

RonD. said:


> Probably wouldn't be fair to say that all their watches are crap. I have a great military one with an 820b movement:
> View attachment 583912
> 
> 
> View attachment 583913
> 
> 
> and a cool Mickey Mouse Helbros with a high grade German PUW automatic movement.
> 
> Having worked on many of them, I feel the average quality is about the same or slightly below that of an average Bulova or Benrus (talking about dials, movements, cases, etc...).


Nice Helbros, basically a rebadged Helvetia, Helvetia 820B movement and 3190 case. About 1944. I've a very similar one with an 820.










Thanks. Carl.


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