# Whats special about Oris movements?



## gagarin

I have a Big crown commander from 2000 which has the Oris 644 movt. But its Eta isn´t it? Several, a lot cheaper watches have Eta movements, especially one, I forgot the number, maybe 2614?. So for I while I felt a little tricked by the sales pitch that it was a mechanical, hence the price. I do love it though.

Why does Oris have their own names? What´s the practical difference between different movements with the same complications, say like mine and an ordinary Eta?

Regards
Erik


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## justmakinmoney

http://www.oris.ch/english/index.html

Cal. Oris 644, Regulator, base ETA 2836-2, Ø 25,60 mm,
11 1/2''', bi-directional automatic winding, ball bearing,
27 jewels, Incabloc, 28¹800 A/h, 4 Hz, power-reserve 38 h, fine timing device and stop-second, centre hand for minutes, subsidiary second at 9 h, window date, date corrector.
Oris development based on ETA movement.
Initial production 1997.

this is off of the oris web site. They do something similar for all of their movements.


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## publandlord

gagarin said:


> I have a Big crown commander from 2000 which has the Oris 644 movt. But its Eta isn´t it? Several, a lot cheaper watches have Eta movements, especially one, I forgot the number, maybe 2614?. So for I while I felt a little tricked by the sales pitch that it was a mechanical, hence the price. I do love it though.


A lot more expensive watches have ETAs too. The only brand I can think of that's consistently cheaper is Tissot, and they make mostly quartzes. Oris is on the low end of watches that use ETA movements and unlike a lot of manufacturers, they cheerfully admit to it.

As for the renaming, most well-known ETA-using watch makers do the same. Breitling, Omega, Longines for example. Omega and Longines are even in the same group as ETA (Swatch) and they _still _rename stock ETA movements.


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## gagarin

Well a watchmaker recently told me that saying that a watch has an Eta movt is like saying it has a diesel engine, there can be great differences in how an movt cranked up by Oris and the movt in a Swatch automatic is in quality when it comes to bearings and such.

Regards
Erik


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## zambo

*Very few watch companies make their own movments today ...*



gagarin said:


> Well a watchmaker recently told me that saying that a watch has an Eta movt is like saying it has a diesel engine, there can be great differences in how an movt cranked up by Oris and the movt in a Swatch automatic is in quality when it comes to bearings and such.
> 
> Regards
> Erik


That auto reference is pretty accurate Erik - a lot of the more prestige brands like IWC for example take an ETA movement for some of their models and significantly (or moderately, depending upon the work they want to do) re-work components of it to make it more accurate, durable, etc and in keeping with their philosophy on watchmaking. This means a lot of work (manhours) could have taken place on the movement prior to it being put in the IWC case and ready for sale.

The analogy about cars is pretty close - I mean, look at the number of car companies that are sharing motor and transmission combo's these days around the world. After the swiss watch industry crisis of the 70's due to the Japanese quartz, the idea of a company that economically produced just the movements for the majority of the industry seemed sensible.

Also, this had been the case in the swiss industry for many years - indeed if my memory serves me, many years ago, Jaeger LeCoultre was perhaps better know as a movement supplier to the likes of IWC and others as well as being a watch designer themselves.

This question about ETA based watches often starts a debate as people feel they may be being short changed on buying a watch that has a relatively inexpensive movement in it, but costs not insignificant $$$.The important thing to realise is that ETA movements are not poor quality by any means - on the contrary, they are of a high standard, just that they are mass produced.

Though the "magic" of buying a more prestige brand does to me feel a little less magical when you know they don't make their own movements - to many enthusiasts, the idea of owning a truely bespoke watch (movement, case, dial, etc) has an alluring appeal - just today it costs quite a lot to live that idea.

Cheers

Richard


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## tomahawk

gagarin said:


> ........Several, a lot cheaper watches have Eta movements, especially one, I forgot the number, maybe 2614?. ........
> Regards
> Erik


Lots of EXPENSIVE SWISS watches out there use ETA's too. 
Not just the cheap ones. To name a few: Tudor, Glycine, Panerai,
Breitling, IWC, Chronoswiss, Omega... so don't feel shortchanged. 

At least ORIS does not charge an arm and a leg for their timepieces.|>


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## scottjal

tomahawk said:


> Lots of EXPENSIVE SWISS watches out there use ETA's too. Not just the cheap ones. To name a few: Tudor, Glycine, Panerai, Breitling, IWC, Chronoswiss, Omega... so don't feel shortchanged.
> At least ORIS does not charge an arm and a leg for their timepieces.|>


Yeah but how much finishing goes on for those movements after they get the shipment in and before they go into the watch? We know that the rotors are pretty much custom across the brands but do they get them that way or do they have to put those on in house? I also think there is a pretty big finish difference between the ETA levels used too and the manufacturer determines which one they are going to use:

COSC ETA 2824-2 that runs around +4 seconds a day:










Same ETA 2824-2 movement in a lower finish level that runs about +13 seconds a day:


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## handwound

Not to say that the Seastar couldn't be regulated to within COSC cert, too, Scott. Although, that isn't a certainty that you'll be to get it that accurate either, and it's at additional expense.


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## scottjal

peepshow said:


> Not to say that the Seastar couldn't be regulated to within COSC cert, too, Scott. Although, that isn't a certainty that you'll be to get it that accurate either, and it's at additional expense.


Damn, I had this whole post typed out and lost it somehow.

I am pretty sure you are right about that anyway, given my Tissot is pretty much bang on +13 every day like that. What I am getting at is that the COSC cert and extra money to get is is saying they just did that for you, with documentation.

Any way I was just trying to point out that there are different finish levels for each movement ETA makes, this one taken from another post here somewhere about the 2824:


> EC - Economique (nickel plated with Etachoc shock protection)
> ST - Standard (also with Etachoc shock protection and ETASTABLE)
> EL - ɬabor饠(with Incabloc shock protection and basic decoration)
> T - Top (based on the 鬡bor饠with "assortments chronometer")



I think Oris lets on to this a little on the 633/637 (637 adds Glucydur balance and COSC) and the 690/695 being similar.

At any rate just trying to point out that with different levels of watches they are choosing different movements, even if they are in the same model, so that accounts for a little of the confusion.

Even more confusing is 635/644/643/649/690/695 are all base ETA 2836-2 movements. The finish level accounts for a little of this as the couple above but it looks like the rest is accounted for by what Oris is doing to the movements after they get them in house, most notably the sub dials and date windows etc.


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## handwound

Agreed. As long as what they're charging extra for is improving the functionality or reliability, I'm all for it. 

For me, display backs lost their novelty long ago, so I could care less how pretty the movement is.

Other people would disagree, c'est la vie.

People here have made good points, lots of FAR more expensive brands modify base ETA movements and rename them. Nothing to be upset about there.


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## edgar1013

Limited Edition Williams F1 does this watch not use an ETA movement? if so, how does the oris cal 673 movement compare to the ETA oris uses on their other pieces.
i figure the chrono complication comes into play. but how does the 673 mech compare to the cal 674. i am rather new to this and would like to make a well informed purchase rather than a blind purchase like i did with my lex.
i have a great opportunity to get my hands on this particular watch and would like to get some input b4 i make the move.

if anyone can tell how far down, or up, the pecking order does the movement in the Limited Edition Williams F1 fall into.

being a LE i figure they would take extra attention to detail when putting something out. however, i see the Carlos edition it is plainly printed "Automatic base ETA with decentralised seconds display"

any feedback and a ballpark price i should come into terms with the seller would be greatly appreciated.

he originally asked for usd1500 but i saw 1 in WUS sell/buy forum for about usd1000 i figure i can come to terms for well under 1000.


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## scottjal

Direct rip from Oris below. Valjoux is a division of ETA as I understand it but that wasn't always so. Check out this site too:

http://www.ozdoba.net/swisswatch/caliber2.html

*Movementcode 674/675*​ Chronograph Cal. Oris 674/675, base Valjoux 7750, Ø 30.00 mm, 13 1/4''', automatic winding, ball bearing, 25 jewels, Incabloc, 28¹800 A/h, 4 Hz, power-reserve 42 h, fine timing device and stop-second, centre hands for hours, minutes and chronograph 1/5 sec., 3 subsidiary dials for contineous seconds, 30 minutes and 12 hours counter, date or day/date
window, date and day corrector. Initial production 1977.​ *Movementcode 672*​ Without small second, and 12 hours counter. *Movementcode 673*​ Without small second.​


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## edgar1013

i checked out the museum. it was quite interesting


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