# 2014 Seiko Astron vs 2014 Citizen F100



## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

2014 Seiko Astron versus 2014 Citizen F100

Seiko and Citizen have both released up-dated versions of their GPS watches. Both are smaller than earlier versions in diameter as well as in thickness. While they are similar in those respects they are less alike than they were in other ways. Both my examples are less than a week old so they have not become daily wear. And because of their size, if for no other reason, they are not likely to supplant my present pair of 24/7 watches.

The Seiko Astron, in addition to being able to interrogate the satellites as to it's time-zone and to correct the time display to suit the time-zone, is also a conventional chronograph. The two pushers on the left side and the crown all deal with the GPS facets while those on the right deal with stopping, starting and zeroing the chronograph hands.

The Citizen F100, on the other hand, demands that the owner select the time-zone but then offers two ways in which the time display can be corrected, according to whether correction encounters difficulties. Both watches display the date in a window, the Citizen's at 3 o'clock and the Seiko's at 4. The Citizen also shows the day in its sub-dial. The Citizen has two pushers, both on the right, and a crown.

Both the F100 and the Astron allow the wearer to ensure that leap-seconds are added when they should be; this has to do with the fact that the earth is gradually slowing down. In addition, the F100 allows the wearer to check that the "rollover" number is correct. My understanding is that this has to do with the difference between the theoretical definition of a second, the number of such seconds in an hour, a day etc, up to a week, versus what the earth does in delivering a realistic week. The rollover number will not change until some time in 2021, so the F100's ability to check it and update it is academic for the immediate future. The earth is apparently inconveniently variable by comparison with the regularity the GPS satellites need to deliver accurate time and navigation information.

The Seiko has three sub-dials, one for the GPS correction information, daylight saving, light level and power reserve, one for a second hand and to tell the operator whether the time correction was successful and the third strictly for the chronograph.

The Citizen has only one sub-dial. It shows the day of the week, the power reserve and whether daylight saving is set or not. Success or failure of the time correction is depicted on both watches by where the second hand comes to rest after a correction attempt. Again when both watches are interrogated as to which time zone is selected, the second hand points to the name of the zone printed on the bezel. The pointer in the function (sub-) dial points either to "on" or "off" for daylight saving. This can then be changed by the press-and-release of one of the pushers, after which the correct time is displayed. Exactly the same procedure, though with a different button, is used for both watches.

From the photographs it appears that the Seiko is the larger of the two. The measurements given by the manufacturer show the diameter of the Citizen as 45.4mm by 12.4mm thick. Seiko gives the diameter of the Astron as 45mm by 13.3mm thick. You can't measure the diameter of the Seiko because the crown-guards are in the way but the Citizen measures at 45.4mm.

The Seiko's thickness measures13.73mm while the Citizen's is 12.8mm. Both, being new, have plastic stickers on their backs. Measuring the diameter of the bezels gives 43.25mm for the Seiko vs 44.6mm for the Seiko. This may, at least in part, explain the apparent size difference. The Astron is available in steel or titanium, this one is titanium and as far as I can tell, the Citizens are all titanium; the Seiko is noticeably heavier. Neither is light and whichever measurements you accept, both are smaller than their predecessors&#8230;but, in my view anyway, both are still too big. The case of the Astron is essentially conventional with wide, flat sides separated from the top surface by angled, polished strips. The lugs curve downward from the base of the bezel and blend into the bracelet. The F100 case is more angular, with narrower flanks, also flat, and four steep "ramps", one at each corner, and integral bracelet ends straight across the ends of the case.

The Astron is conventionally luminous, that is, the hands and markers glow, and the lume lasts reasonably well. On the F100, only the hands are luminous and the short bars of lume are so similar in length and radius that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to tell which is which if the hands are separated by 45° or more. Very disappointing.

The bezel on the Astron is black ceramic, with the abbreviated names of the time-zones printed in white on the outer conical surface. Under the sapphire but on the black surface of the bezel are printed the numbered time-zones, from 1 to 14 clockwise and from -1 to -12 anti-clockwise. The black bezel on the F100 has a much steeper conical angle with no printing on it outside the sapphire. Nor is the material of the bezel identified. The abbreviated names and numbered time-zones are apparently on the underside of the sapphire, as are the "NO", "RX" and "OK" arranged in an arc between 11 and 1 o'clock, inside the minute markers. The minute hand on the citizen moves in small, discrete steps every 20 seconds; on the Astron, it moves every 5 seconds.

Both watches are light-powered and the owner's handbooks both make a lot of fuss about how important it is to keep them charged; both emphasize that they can't correct themselves if their charge levels are low and both offer the owner a way of checking the reserve and making sure there is enough light for the cells to charge the batteries.

The Astron is much more complicated both in its functions and its appearance. At the same time, unless the chrono is used regularly, the functions used on a daily basis are essentially the same. Synchronizing the satellite and watch time requires the same input by the wearer in each case, though the location of the button is different, and it takes about the same length of time and makes the same demands in terms of access to satellites. There appears to be a substantial difference in price between the two, both in terms of list and street prices, in favor of the F100. But you get more capability from the Astron, both in terms of its ability to identify its time-zone and the presence of a chronograph.

If and when the Morgenwerk becomes reality I will update this comparison, adding photographs.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

Artec thanks for the comparison. I will be waiting to see how the Morgenwerk stacks up against these two. I believe the rollover you referred to is for GPS time.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

My understanding of 'rollover number' is that the week number transmitted by the satellites is in the range 0-1023. As this is about twenty years, it must roll over to zero and then requires an incrementing count to show which 1023-week cycle we are currently in. The F100 apparently can set a count from 0 to 5 and this covers the period 22.Aug.1999 to 22.May.2017.

Thanks for the comparison. I looked at the Astron and decided that it was too big for me. I'm currently awaiting the chance to check out the F100, which I think will arrive in the UK in the next 1 to 2 weeks. If it's not too excessive I will definitely get one. I really would have liked the Oceanus GPS/RC hybrid but it's huge. The MW isn't much smaller but we shall have to see just how big the external antennae make it.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks for the comparison, I quite like the case of the Citizen. A chrono is nice on paper, but honestly these analog chronos are nearly impossible to read...Citizen claim that the F100 can synch in 3 seconds versus the previous record of 4 seconds. Have you found that to be accurate? I'm not sure which watch synched in 4 seconds. I had a close look at the manual of the Astron Chrono and they say that a full synch (with TZ) can take up to 2 minutes, while a simple synch will take up to 1 minute. Conservative numbers probably of course.


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## estevezj777 (Feb 16, 2014)

Excellent review, thank you. I'm considering getting the F100.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I've only synchronized either of them a couple of times so I'm not sure. The F100 certainly seemed faster but I don't have enough experience of them to be confident. I'm going to be away for the next 10 days and I'm not taking either GPS watch. I'll experiment some more when I get back. Sorry I can't answer.


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## Domo (Sep 20, 2013)

Two fantastic watches there! I'm really digging the new Astron chrono style. Hows the titanium bracelet on the Astron? Are the middle links made up of individual parts of is it all a solid piece?


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Is the F100 JDM only? Google isn't finding it available for sale for me it seems :-(


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

webvan said:


> Is the F100 JDM only? Google isn't finding it available for sale for me it seems :-(


It appears to be going on sale worldwide in the very near future (1 or 2 weeks). 
Citizen UK show it on their website at £1095 list price, but my local AD hasn't any definite news yet.
Citizen Citizen Eco-Drive Satellite Wave F100 CC2006-61E Satellite
Note that the UK part number is 61E, while the Japanese show it as 53E.
I've also seen it on a Spanish dealer's site as 53E, not yet in stock.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks, shouldn't be too much longer then. On your link I see "and recognition of 40 time zones on earth, allowing the watch to display the correct time anywhere in the world." although reading artec's comparison I was under the impression the TZ had to be selected manually ? Will have to go find the manual to clarify that.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

webvan said:


> Will have to go find the manual to clarify that.


Select that link and look on the left hand side for Setting Instructions.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Right, so here is the manual : http://c03.coacdn.com/calibersWPC/526_1_1_full_instructions.pdf and the TZ indeed can (has to?) be set manually, I'm not even clear why you'd want to do that, no proper time synch if you don't? Also it seems that GPS synch will only happen manually? I thought it happened automatically on previous Citizen generations, wondering about the Aston now. There's a power constraint of course, but having to perform a time synch manually is er...well you might as well pull out your smartphone, get an NTP synch and set the time manually on your watch?


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

webvan said:


> Right, so here is the manual : http://c03.coacdn.com/calibersWPC/526_1_1_full_instructions.pdf and the TZ indeed can (has to?) be set manually, I'm not even clear why you'd want to do that, no proper time synch if you don't? Also it seems that GPS synch will only happen manually? I thought it happened automatically on previous Citizen generations, wondering about the Aston now. There's a power constraint of course, but having to perform a time synch manually is er...well you might as well pull out your smartphone, get an NTP synch and set the time manually on your watch?


I think that the manual-only time sync will work irrespective of the manually-set TZ and DST. It just won't show the right time.

I'm beginning to think that the GPS watches are rather more trouble than they are worth. If RC works for you, and you aren't fixated on having the very latest technology, it's a no-brainer. Nothing to do ever, except change TZ if you travel. The Oceanus hybrid will do RC if it can't see the satellites, and can set the TZ if GPS works. But it's almost as big as wearing an F100 plus a slim RC! If you don't travel to remote places (like the southern hemisphere) then it's really no better than a simple RC.

Perhaps having this discussion is about to save me £1000? At least until the MW arrives.


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## richy176 (Sep 26, 2013)

Chris - my Astron does an automatic time sync and a google for seiko astron faqs returned this link which also shows that the time sync is automatic.

FAQs on ASTRON - FAQs - | SEIKO WATCH CORPORATION

You do have to press a button for DST or setting to airplane mode but no real hassle there. Many people probably spend more time checking their watches against one of the time check sites anyway.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

richy176 said:


> Chris - my Astron does an automatic time sync and a google for seiko astron faqs returned this link which also shows that the time sync is automatic.
> 
> FAQs on ASTRON - FAQs - | SEIKO WATCH CORPORATION
> 
> You do have to press a button for DST or setting to airplane mode but no real hassle there. Many people probably spend more time checking their watches against one of the time check sites anyway.


Yes the Astron (chrono at least, as the older version is far too big for me to care about) does a lot more for you than the F100. I was considering the latter model as it's lighter and less bulky than the Seiko, much simpler to look at, and about half the price. The choice of GPS watches that are only large, not huge, is still a bit limited. The Oceanus GPS/RC hybrid is much bigger, and will likely only be available as a JDM import, while the Morgen Werk is still invisible and will I think be a bit of a 'lump' with its external antennae. When I've handled the F100 I might reconsider the Astron.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Sorry to be so long answering your question, Domo. The middle link is all one piece and the polished strips are integral, just a few thou depressed.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

This is not really a reply to anything...more of a supplement to the original review post.

The two watches have now had about three weeks to show what they can do by way of unaided accuracy. After 25 days without synchronizing, the Astron was 0.67 seconds fast; after 21 days, the F100 was 1.67 seconds fast.

The Astron claims 15 seconds a month, against 5 seconds a month by the F100.

Timing was checked by shooting a 29.4 frames/sec video of the watch with the digital read-out of my Arbiter 1093B GPS clock and viewing the video frame by frame on the computer.


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## dberg (Jan 7, 2014)

artec -- I understand you used to own the older/original version of the Astron, but sold it because it was too big. Can you give us some feedback on the size/wearability of the new smaller Astron chrono? Also, I know that you purchased the new titanium model, but I understand that the SS is slightly smaller. Did you try the SS? Is it noticeably smaller? And, is the titanium more well balanced than the SS?


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

@dberg
I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help with your questions because I never saw the steel version. I bought the Ti one because my dealer had none of the steel ones!. I didn't know there was a size difference.
As for balance, again, not having seen the SS version, I can make no comparisons. To be honest, I don't know what you mean by "balance", either.... in appearance, as far as I know, they will be the same except for a tiny difference in color. For me, it's still too big at 45mm and it's even busier with the three subdials. Of the two, I prefer the looks of the Citizen, if only because of its simpler dial, but it, too, is too big for my taste. But the lack of lume on the markers and the similarity of the lume on the hands are major negatives on the F100 for me.


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## dberg (Jan 7, 2014)

Darn. Disappointing that you believe the newer version of the Astron is still too big. I think I was wrong about the difference in size on the Ti and SS. It appears that only the limited edition Ti is slightly larger. Interested in your thoughts on dropping to one of the Brightz/Ananta pieces in the hope that it might wear smaller. Like the chrono function and the SDGZ013 appeals to me, but nothing special about the movement like the GSs or the Astrons. It is 41.9 X 14.7 with l2l of 48.9. There is also the RC SAGA171 -- which is 43.5 X 11.6 with a l2l of 50. Thing is that, relative to these two pieces, the Astron presents a tremendous value. Only issue is its size.


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## dicioccio (Jul 14, 2011)

dberg, the SAGA171 is 44mm so it is on the "huge" size (at least to me). Moreover, according to the informations available on the net, the RC is possible only in Japan and doesn't work worldwide. Therefore outside Japan it will be only a "standard" quartz, with no added value by the RC capability...


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Size is so subjective. I'm not really comfortable with any diameter bigger than 39mm. 40mm is the limit for me, so both these GPS models are too big. But I realize that there are lots of people for whom 42mm or so is the lower limit of what they find acceptable. I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar enough with the Brightz, the Ananta, the SDGZ013 or the SAGA171, though 43.5mm is too big for my taste. On diameter alone, the SDGZ might squeeze in but I don't know anything about the watch. I have a Citizen CB3000 RC model, a Citizen Exceed (corresponding more or less to the Seiko Brightz range) but that's well under 40mm. 
I may be demonstrating my limited knowledge but what is "a 121"?


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## hughesyn (Oct 9, 2014)

l2l = lug to lug


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

I would prefer a smaller size but that is not realistic now. In principle a larger dial makes for better readability.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Agreed that, other things being equal, a bigger dial should be easier to read. But so many of the bigger dials are so cluttered that they lose the advantage theoretically conferred by size. Interesting that both the 2014 GPS models, one each from Seiko and Citizen, are smaller than their predecessors. I hope the trend continues!
@hughesyn
Thank you.


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## comatox (Feb 11, 2006)

I have a 6.5 inch wrist and I have no problem with the new Astron. 
Sadly, I sold it to buy something else, but I miss it so I'll likely buy it again. I just have to decide on whether I want SS or Ti.

The biggest problem I had with the Astron was the fact that it's impossible to center the chrono hand. You can manually adjust it to point right at the 12 marker but it inevitably falls 1/5 of a second to the right within minutes. I tested all the ones in stock, both is SS and Ti, and they all had the same issue. Looking at photos on line, I saw the same thing. I find that to be annoying in a 1800 to 2500 dollars watch. 
In my particular case, the red tip hand made that even more visible.

Here are some photos of my ex Astron on my 6.5 inch wrist.





































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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I find the Astron too big for my 7 inch wrist and, from your photos, also for yours, but I suppose it's a matter of taste.
The second hand on my Astron seems to be a hair off, but by much less than a fifth of a second. Mine has never been worn but I've exercised the chrono a few times and the second hand is still so close to dead on that you have to examine it really closely to see any error.
Interesting that your first photo makes the hour markers look as if they were luminous for their full length, matching the hands!
See a pm from me, please.


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## comatox (Feb 11, 2006)

Funny you say it's too big lol. I sold it to help pay for a 47mm PAM 422.










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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for this artec. I've been closely researching both models. It sounds like both have some short comings. I'll probably wait for the next generation. Thanks.


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## me4tux (Apr 17, 2006)

Hi,
A friend of mine just returned from Tokyo today and delivered my Citizen F100 (white face dial, model CC-2001-57A). I believe it does have automatic time sync. Here is what I observed:

We picked up the box from his car in the car park under an open sky. Upon opening the box exposing the watch, I saw the hands on the dial autocorrect.
When I asked my friend what was the last time he saw the time on my watch, he said it was Tokyo time.



clarencek said:


> Thanks for this artec. I've been closely researching both models. It sounds like both have some short comings. I'll probably wait for the next generation. Thanks.


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## dicioccio (Jul 14, 2011)

Does anyone have informations about that taken from the booklet ?


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

dicioccio said:


> Does anyone have informations about that taken from the booklet ?


It's an 80-page document, so I'll let you read it!

Citizen Citizen Eco-Drive Satellite Wave F100 CC2006-61E Satellite

Click on Setting Instructions and you can download it.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

We discussed that a couple of weeks ago after I flipped through the manual and linked it I believe, and there was no reference to automatic settings. Didn't Artec confirm that?


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

After 3 days in the dark, the F100 watch goes into power saving mode. Re-exposure to light causes the hands to move to the internally maintained current time. I think that's what me4tux saw in the car park. The watch doesn't do satellite reception without being explicitly told to do so, and it has no idea of local time zone, which has to be set manually. It would be very surprising if the watch managed to reset itself from Tokyo time to his local time.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Exactly right, Chris01, as far as I can see. I'm pretty sure the Astron doesn't do any corrections (time or zone) spontaneously, either.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

artec said:


> Exactly right, Chris01, as far as I can see. I'm pretty sure the Astron doesn't do any corrections (time or zone) spontaneously, either.


Well, you have the Astron chrono and the F100 and I've just been browsing the manuals, so I'm happy to be proved wrong. Here's what I've concluded:

Astron time zone can be set either by requesting an update by GPS, or by physically setting the watch.
The F100 only does the second option.

Astron current time can be set from GPS either automatically by the watch, or by pressing a button to request it. It is also possible to set the time purely manually.
The F100 does the second and third options.

Like my Citizen AD, I'm still waiting to see the F100 that should have been in at the end of October.


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## me4tux (Apr 17, 2006)

It seems Chris maybe correct about my watch in power save sitting in a dark box for a few days. Therefore, I stand corrected.
On my manual (English) pg 4 & 32, there is a statement which states "Location information is not acquired". So, I guess that is the missing feature compared to an Astron.

One thing I dislike is that the Lume is only on the tip of the hour & minute hands and nowhere else. Its impossible to see the time in the dark :-(

I also have the Eco-drive radio controlled Limited Edn (model CB0000-06E) steel watch. It feels heavier on my wrist despite being a smaller watch (and leather strap) compared to the larger F100/titanium bracelet.



chris01 said:


> After 3 days in the dark, the F100 watch goes into power saving mode. Re-exposure to light causes the hands to move to the internally maintained current time. I think that's what me4tux saw in the car park. The watch doesn't do satellite reception without being explicitly told to do so, and it has no idea of local time zone, which has to be set manually. It would be very surprising if the watch managed to reset itself from Tokyo time to his local time.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I made a similar comment on the lume, or lack of it, in my original review. The watch is useless at night. Changing the time-zone is so easy that not having the ability to change it automatically really doesn't seem to be a disadvantage. The only time one would need that ability would be when one was unsure what time-zone one was in....and how often would that happen?


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## everose (Jan 15, 2010)

chris01 said:


> Well, you have the Astron chrono and the F100 and I've just been browsing the manuals, so I'm happy to be proved wrong. Here's what I've concluded:
> 
> Astron time zone can be set either by requesting an update by GPS, or by physically setting the watch.
> The F100 only does the second option.
> ...


Those conclusions sound good to me.

Casio's 5410 GPS/RC module will execute an auto GPS time sync if its outside an RC area and/or if all RC sync attempts failed the previous night within a RC area.
The Casio module is also capable of automatically executing a GPS time *and* position sync in one situation. After exiting airplane mode the module will execute an automatic time and position sync.(provided the dial is exposed to enough light, its outside and its between 6am-10pm, etc, etc)

I suppose one possible advantage of Citizen's F100 manual only GPS time sync method is that you control how often they happen and so unwanted power sapping auto GPS sync attempts can never be an issue. This should help to maintain a reasonable PR level. The F100's PR from full in sleep mode is a whopping (approx) 7yrs according to the manual.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

everose said:


> Those conclusions sound good to me.
> 
> Casio's 5410 GPS/RC module will execute an auto GPS time sync if its outside an RC area and/or if all RC sync attempts failed the previous night within a RC area.
> The Casio module is also capable of automatically executing a GPS time *and* position sync in one situation. After exiting airplane mode the module will execute an automatic time and position sync.(provided the dial is exposed to enough light, its outside and its between 6am-10pm, etc, etc)
> ...


The Oceanus G1000 has the 5412 module, presumably very similar to the 5410 in the G-Shock. I find the automated hybrid functions very appealing, but the Oceanus is a lot bigger than the Citizen and Astron. Also, being JDM only, the warranty is only one year and requires return to the selling dealer in Japan - not great for a highly complex watch. The other two watches get full international warranties. Otherwise I'd get the Oceanus any day. I decided that the F100 was just too limited in what it would do for me so I'm now awaiting delivery of the blue dial SSE005 Astron.


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## everose (Jan 15, 2010)

chris01 said:


> ......I'm now awaiting delivery of the blue dial SSE005 Astron.


Congrats Chris, that would have been my choice of Astron 8X Series also.

I feel somewhat reluctant to mention this now but i have noticed some of the Seiko 8X Series chrono (main) secs hands 'appear' to show some slight misalignment when parked at 12 o'clock...including some on Seiko's own website!......... 

8X Series | SEIKO ASTRON | SEIKO WATCH CORPORATION

I also read that someone tried to manually correct his following the instructions in the manual but it would soon revert back to being slightly misaligned again. I certainly hope yours will be OK in this regard.


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

Well I saw and tried the f100 in person at the new Citizen boutique in NYC Times Square. 
It's a nice, very light watch but I couldn't get past all the plastic on the dial. It just didn't look like a $1800 watch. 
Anyway hopefully they will improve the dial work in the next version.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

everose said:


> Congrats Chris, that would have been my choice of Astron 8X Series also.
> 
> I feel somewhat reluctant to mention this now but i have noticed some of the Seiko 8X Series chrono (main) secs hands 'appear' to show some slight misalignment when parked at 12 o'clock...including some on Seiko's own website!.........
> 
> ...


It's a regular hazard I guess. My Certina DS-2, which I've now owned for a year and 2 weeks, has perfect ** alignment of the two sweep hands. Some photos of others' DS-2s on here have shown a clear displacement from 12. Even if they're initially assembled correctly, there's a lot of mechanism to settle into a different position with use (and abuse). It is a bit strange that Seiko don't seem to know or care about it.

** I believe that loupes are generally best left to watchmakers. If you're happy with your watch via the naked eye, then why put it under the microscope hoping to find something to make you unhappy? Of course, in an HAQ forum that may be seen as a strange question, but misaligned hands can still display perfect timekeeping.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

I must check out those watches at that Citizen store.


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## Seikoed703 (Nov 24, 2014)

I just saw a couple of astron watches and my jaw dropped cuz it's so beautiful. Is this line updated every year?


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## Andrew McGregor (Dec 27, 2011)

Seikoed703 said:


> I just saw a couple of astron watches and my jaw dropped cuz it's so beautiful. Is this line updated every year?


They're too new to know; so far, yes.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

For now there are yearly updates. How long that trend holds is unknown.


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## Seikoed703 (Nov 24, 2014)

ronalddheld said:


> For now there are yearly updates. How long that trend holds is unknown.


I was gonna save up more pretty pennies and wait for the astron line next year. I'll see if I can hold out that long.... Haha


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## comatox (Feb 11, 2006)

everose said:


> Congrats Chris, that would have been my choice of Astron 8X Series also.
> 
> I feel somewhat reluctant to mention this now but i have noticed some of the Seiko 8X Series chrono (main) secs hands 'appear' to show some slight misalignment when parked at 12 o'clock...including some on Seiko's own website!.........
> 
> ...


My Astron had that issue and it is partly why I sold it. Bugged me to no end.

I adjusted it every day to point straight up and it still fell to the side by 1/5 second after a few hours. Every day. All the ones I've seen on line in real life photos were off mark too.

I actually ran into the seiko rep at a GS dealer and brought that up, and he promised me an answer. He said they were not aware of that



















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## novacatz (Feb 15, 2014)

artec said:


> I've only synchronized either of them a couple of times so I'm not sure. The F100 certainly seemed faster but I don't have enough experience of them to be confident. I'm going to be away for the next 10 days and I'm not taking either GPS watch. I'll experiment some more when I get back. Sorry I can't answer.


Hi Artec, roughly how long does it take for the F100 / Asteron to sync? Is it < 5 sec (press and forget) or much longer (press and stand still waiting waiting).


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## comatox (Feb 11, 2006)

I have a movie of my Astron syncing. Takes about 45 seconds. 


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## Seppia (Sep 1, 2013)

I am really interested in the GPS technology, but the watches are still too big for me at this point. 
Would also love to see some more "classic" design, it seems to me as the brands feel compelled to give the watches kind of a "futuristic" style that does not fit my tastes 100%. 
I really like the citizen's dial though.


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## Kucimo (May 24, 2010)

Thanks for this comprehensive review on both Ctz F100 and SBXB003, very helpful. I have one quick question, does the SBXB003 come with screw down crown like the first generation Seiko Astron GPS solar ? Many thanks in advance, Kucimo.


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## comatox (Feb 11, 2006)

No screw down crown on the Astron. 


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

I decided against the Citizen F100, as it didn't seem to do very much for you and, having at last seen one, I thought it was a bit big and bland and not as good looking as it had appeared in photos. Also, the sub-dial was slightly strange and the bracelet was too similar to the Constellation - a style that I've never liked. The Astron SSE005J1 - titanium with blue dial - was the one I chose, and I had an excellent buying experience with a German online AD.
The watch arrived in the UK the day after despatch and I was instantly very pleased with my choice. It arrived fully charged and after a quick glance at the manual I rushed outside for an update. Within less than a minute the watch had set the time zone, date and time.

*For my early impressions, I'll start with what I don't like*

The bracelet has the common problem of poor adjustability. With only full-size links and one micro adjustment on the clasp, it's not easy to get a good fit, and it will be a nuisance to adjust when the weather gets warm again. How hard could it be to extend the clasp to allow space for 3 or 4 adjustment holes? Almost zero cost and effort for the manufacturer. A pair of half or two-thirds sized links would be nice as well.

Artec's review mentioned the pointless, hands-only lume on the F100. Seiko have provided a reasonably complete and readable implementation. However, the dial markers are identical so that there is no visual indication of 12 o'clock, making it equally pointless. If the chrono hands happen to be zeroed, then the second hand counterbalance has a faint lume that points towards 12, but it's almost useless.

The dial is a bit too busy and the watch is a bit too big, but I guess it all kind of grows on you!

The printed handbook is only the seriously abbreviated "Handy Manual" (18pp), while the "Complete User Guide"(58pp) is on a CD. They should have just supplied a complete printed guide. With 4 buttons and a multifunctional crown, anything beyond normal daily operations requires reference to the manual. I will store a memo in my phone with some basic operations listed.

*What's to like*

I love the blue dial and ceramic bezel. My only other blue dial is a Conquest VHP PC, where the flat uncoated sapphire severely reduces the contrast and the colour is wasted. The Seiko also has a flat sapphire but with a good AR coating, allowing the beautiful blue to shine through.

The somewhat excessive size is countered by the lightweight titanium, so it's quite easy to wear, in spite of the bracelet sizing issue. I like the combination of brushed and polished finish, particularly on the bracelet.

All the functions seem to work as expected, and it updated TZ and date/time very quickly. While the GPS-TZ feature is very neat, that's probably the only time I will ever use it. If I'm travelling, I board the plane, fasten my seat belt, and then manually set my watch for the destination. With any watch that I'd care to travel with, including the Astron, this takes a few seconds. I'm certainly not going to wait until I arrive and then have to stand outside the terminal building, exposed to the wind/rain/snow/hot sun/muggers/pimps/taxi drivers, while awaiting a GPS update (which won't happen because I forgot to unset flight mode).

*Timing*

The jury's still out on timing. After a quick test with flight mode enabled (GPS turned off) it looks like about +30 to +40 SPY with daily wear, and about +140 SPY when unworn (both of course within the standard quartz 15 SPM). When you're used to timing HAQs it's quite a shock to see the huge difference caused by a modest temperature change. Next will be a check on how well the GPS works without taking any special action, then more tests of standalone timekeeping.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Comments on your comments, Chris01!

As far as the lume being useless is concerned, I agree that it is if you just look at the watch on its own. If you grip it between your finger and thumb, with your index finger along the 12 end of the bracelet the watch and the lume is automatically oriented. I found that this worked fine.
As for the watch growing on you, I think the trouble is that it's already grown!
Mine was delivered without the CD so all I got was the so-called "Handy Manual".
I completely agree about setting the timezone to that of the destination before taking off, avoiding all the sales attacks on landing. I've done that with my Chronomaster too.
Mine, when not worn, just sitting on a table in a room with closed venetian blinds, has continued to be astonishingly accurate. Whether this is due to automatic self-correction I don't know, but it really seems unlikely.

I'm glad you like your Astron and hope you continue to do so!


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks for sharing the comments and the pics, if I were to get an Astron it would be this one!

" It arrived fully charged and after a quick glance at the manual I rushed outside for an update. Within less than a minute the watch had set the time zone, date and time."

I haven't looked up the manual again but that type of "correction" would require a long press on one of the buttons right? Not just rushing outside ? ;-)


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

artec said:


> Comments on your comments, Chris01!
> 
> As far as the lume being useless is concerned, I agree that it is if you just look at the watch on its own. If you grip it between your finger and thumb, with your index finger along the 12 end of the bracelet the watch and the lume is automatically oriented. I found that this worked fine.
> As for the watch growing on you, I think the trouble is that it's already grown!
> ...


Well, yes, you're correct about orienting the watch, but on your wrist with a quick glance, or just on a shelf, it's not too easy to get it right. And it's just so unnecessary. If the idiot who designed it had ever used a luminous watch he would have put a double pip at 12, and problem solved.

GPS does seem pretty sensitive. We have a foil/plastic bubble insulating sheet inside the roof, so GPS doesn't work too well inside the house, although my iPhone usually gets enough signal for a mapping app to know exactly where I am. At my desk the watch wouldn't perform a forced sync but next to a north-facing second storey window, with a partly closed aluminium venetian blind, it had no trouble. In view of the uncorrected rate it should be easy to spot automatic synchronisation during normal daily use or non-use.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

webvan said:


> Thanks for sharing the comments and the pics, if I were to get an Astron it would be this one!
> 
> " It arrived fully charged and after a quick glance at the manual I rushed outside for an update. Within less than a minute the watch had set the time zone, date and time."
> 
> I haven't looked up the manual again but that type of "correction" would require a long press on one of the buttons right? Not just rushing outside ? ;-)


Yes, the fully automatic update (time only, not TZ) happens as and when the watch decides. I wanted an immediate update so I had to work out which button to use. In normal usage this isn't too bad, as the two right-hand buttons operate the chrono just like any other watch. The 8 o'clock button switches flight mode, so it's just the 10 o'clock button for synch stuff. One press shows the Y/N status of the last synch. Press and hold for 3 sec for a time update (needs only 1 satellite), Press and hold for 6 sec for a full TZ and time update (needs 3 or 4 satellites).


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

Interesting recent comments. I only had two opportunities to check the automatic TZ change. As of now I am trying to recharge the watch to reset the time via GPS. Hoping to sell it when the Morgenwerk watches become available.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

ronalddheld said:


> Hoping to sell it when the Morgenwerk watches become available.


I hope that your watch will still be saleable as a current model when the MW finally appears.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

chris01 said:


> I hope that your watch will still be saleable as a current model when the MW finally appears.


Doubtful as it was the first Astron model. If someone were currently interested from this forum, they would get first priority.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

ronalddheld said:


> Doubtful as it was the first Astron model. If someone were currently interested from this forum, they would get first priority.


Sorry, I had just assumed you were talking about the current chrono. This is a bit of a problem with having the latest hi-tech on your wrist, or in your pocket: it gets out of date very quickly but doesn't become a collector's item.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

chris01 said:


> Sorry, I had just assumed you were talking about the current chrono. This is a bit of a problem with having the latest hi-tech on your wrist, or in your pocket: it gets out of date very quickly but doesn't become a collector's item.


I doubt my version is to be considered classic or collectible anytime soon.


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## richy176 (Sep 26, 2013)

I am very temptyed to get the Astron GPS and would go for either the Blue dial or the limited edition white dial - just not sure if the extra cost is worth it for the white dial.

Had an email from creation today about their sale and they have the new Astrons at a big discount. Well...sort of a big discount. Showed the blue dial as being reduced from $4500 to $2150 compared to a rrp on Arizona Fine Time of $2450.

Think I would prefer to buy from an AD


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Especially since AZFT have been known to give good prices off of RRP, you might want to give them a call ;-)


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

webvan said:


> Especially since AZFT have been known to give good prices off of RRP, you might want to give them a call ;-)


There are a sponsor for theses boards, so I would call and mention HAQ.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

richy176 said:


> I am very temptyed to get the Astron GPS and would go for either the Blue dial or the limited edition white dial - just not sure if the extra cost is worth it for the white dial.
> 
> Had an email from creation today about their sale and they have the new Astrons at a big discount. Well...sort of a big discount. Showed the blue dial as being reduced from $4500 to $2150 compared to a rrp on Arizona Fine Time of $2450.
> 
> Think I would prefer to buy from an AD


Don't forget the extra cost of VAT, etc., when importing to UK from the US. A discounting AD in Europe is likely a better bet. I found my (German) deal via Chrono24, and there are also some Spanish ADs selling on eBay. EU list price seems to be around €2400. You could expect £1500-£1600 delivered, tax paid.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I can't speak for AZFT, obviously, but I paid $1895 for an SSE003 Astron. Even allowing for VAT and duty, I should think that would be competitive, but Chris' numbers look pretty good, too.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

artec said:


> I can't speak for AZFT, obviously, but I paid $1895 for an SSE003 Astron. Even allowing for VAT and duty, I should think that would be competitive, but Chris' numbers look pretty good, too.


If a new watch is generally available, for probably anybody within the EU it's likely to be cheaper to buy from within Europe from a dealer offering a good price. On top of the VAT/duty you usually get stung for the courier's fee for collecting the tax, and that ain't cheap. For an Astron or similar, US prices are pretty good before tax, while Japanese prices (eBay, Rakuten, etc.) seem high. With JDM-only of course you have no choice. Another EU benefit may be cheaper or free carriage and quicker delivery - my Astron took 26 hours door-to-door DE to UK.


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## richy176 (Sep 26, 2013)

artec said:


> I can't speak for AZFT, obviously, but I paid $1895 for an SSE003 Astron. Even allowing for VAT and duty, I should think that would be competitive, but Chris' numbers look pretty good, too.


At current exchange rates that would work out at about £1500 allowing for $50 to cover shipping and then 20% VAT. Maybe another £10-£15 courier handling fee. USA and Europe seem pretty close on total price but makes the Creation price look a bit high whereas they are usually pretty good.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

A quick update.









This graph shows 
1. vertical yellow bars - manual GPS update
2. blue bars - variation from reset
3. red line - SPY when worn
4. green line - SPY when unworn
Note that the horizontal axis represents individual timing events, not days. The total duration is 9 days.

While I like the watch very much as far as appearance and functionality goes, I must admit to disappointment on two counts.

The raw accuracy is poor. OK for a standard quartz and within the 15 SPY, but I might have hoped for something better from an expensive and otherwise high-tech watch. In total, with a mixture of worn and unworn time, the watch gained 2.3 seconds in 8.5 days (+99 SPY). This makes it my least inherently accurate quartz watch, including my two Oceanus RCs that achieve +40 and +14 SPY unworn. I'll believe that the Morgen Werk would have been a better choice when someone here can display the evidence. 

GPS synchronisation works well on demand. However, I have been completely unable to get an automatic update, having tried normal daily wear, leaving the watch in bright daylight in front of a window, and standing outside with the dial exposed to direct sunlight.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Interesting information, beautifully and clearly presented! I hope I don't sound patronising but that is about the best presentation of this kind of information I've seen.

I've sold my Astron to an airline pilot in Austin but before I sent it off, it had been unworn, sitting on a table in a room whose window was covered by a closed venetian blind from 11/08/14 to 12/07/14. It had started at + 0.67 sec and ended at + 0.033 sec. I can only assume that it had corrected itself at least once between those two dates and I have no idea why the two examples are behaving so differently. Just to answer an unasked question, I checked the time on the Astron by shooting a 30 frame per second video of the watch beside the digital read-out of my GPS clock (an Arbiter 1093B) and then comparing change points on a frame by frame display on my iMac. I do this to get a running picture of the performance of my two The Citizens at intervals anyway, so it was easy just to add another video of each of the GPS watches. Incidentally, the F100 had gained 2 full seconds in the same 29 days.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

artec said:


> Interesting information, beautifully and clearly presented! I hope I don't sound patronising but that is about the best presentation of this kind of information I've seen.
> 
> I've sold my Astron to an airline pilot in Austin but before I sent it off, it had been unworn, sitting on a table in a room whose window was covered by a closed venetian blind from 11/08/14 to 12/07/14. It had started at + 0.67 sec and ended at + 0.033 sec. I can only assume that it had corrected itself at least once between those two dates and I have no idea why the two examples are behaving so differently. Just to answer an unasked question, I checked the time on the Astron by shooting a 30 frame per second video of the watch beside the digital read-out of my GPS clock (an Arbiter 1093B) and then comparing change points on a frame by frame display on my iMac. I do this to get a running picture of the performance of my two The Citizens at intervals anyway, so it was easy just to add another video of each of the GPS watches. Incidentally, the F100 had gained 2 full seconds in the same 29 days.


Thanks for the kind words.

The difference between the two watches is very strange. Given the manual's info on the requirements for auto updates it's quite hard to believe that yours managed to update itself. Similarly, it's hard to understand why mine won't auto update at all. I need to investigate this carefully before deciding that the watch is faulty. Perhaps just leave the watch outside for a few days!

One 'advantage' of an inaccurate watch is that it's easy to get decent performance data in a very short period. As this is 100x worse than my HAQs I'm getting usable numbers in half a day, rather than a month. I use the stopwatch method, and after each GPS update the watch is consistently within a few milliseconds of the reference.

Is there anybody who has clearly seen the Astron chrono perform an auto update? Either by watching the hands during the process, or by before/after timing that shows a step change.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I agree, it is very odd. If I'd known we were going to need more readings I could probably have hung on to the Astron for a bit longer and tried to trap it doing its sync. However....I'm sure you've tried a window that looks towards a nice open piece of sky. Not as good as leaving it outside but we wouldn't want to expose local foxes etc to temptation.

Also agree with the stopwatch method. I only changed to the Arbiter/video because it's faster and I can take a single video showing both my The Citizens and the GPS at the same time. When I first changed I would take an average of ten comparisons, with the seconds hand pointing at different parts of the circumference. However, I found there was never more than a single frame, 1/30 of a second, difference, so now I just take a single reading, with an occasional three or four checks of one watch or the other to make sure no errors have crept in.


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## Seppia (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks a lot for the great info guys!


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## hughesyn (Oct 9, 2014)

Wow, the performance without sync is poor.

It makes you wonder why such an expensive watch that's all about technology and accuracy couldn't have TC too. Very disappointing, I won't be buying.

An Astron with TC is a watch I would buy.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

hughesyn said:


> Wow, the performance without sync is poor.
> 
> It makes you wonder why such an expensive watch that's all about technology and accuracy couldn't have TC too. Very disappointing, I won't be buying.
> 
> An Astron with TC is a watch I would buy.


Obviously we only have detailed data for one watch so far (since we don't know whether artec's watch managed to synch itself), and it may not be representative of the general performance. But even one performing at this level is not very encouraging. I have still to find out whether auto synch actually works.

While it's not too bad if you force a daily update (within 0.4 SPD unworn and 0.15 SPD worn) it is still nagging at me and I'm not convinced that I'll keep it. I was wondering whether its rate is adjustable, but I'm not about to open up a brand new watch, and there would still be the 80 SPY difference between worn and unworn.

So your GPS+HAQ requirement is met only by the Morgen Werk, assuming that such a creature really exists.

[edit]
There is still the F100, which may achieve or better its claim of 5 SPM. Other than that the most consistently accurate automatic updater is likely to be the Oceanus GPS/RC hybrid. Unfortunately far too big for me, and I'm not happy with the JDM purchase & warranty implications. Otherwise I'd have preferred this to the Astron any day.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

chris01 said:


> Obviously we only have detailed data for one watch so far (since we don't know whether artec's watch managed to synch itself), and it may not be representative of the general performance. But even one performing at this level is not very encouraging. I have still to find out whether auto synch actually works.
> 
> While it's not too bad if you force a daily update (within 0.4 SPD unworn and 0.15 SPD worn) it is still nagging at me and I'm not convinced that I'll keep it. I was wondering whether its rate is adjustable, but I'm not about to open up a brand new watch, and there would still be the 80 SPY difference between worn and unworn.
> 
> ...


If one of you lived nearby I would lend my Astron out for testing.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

ronalddheld said:


> If one of you lived nearby I would lend my Astron out for testing.


Not a very practical proposition, I agree. However, I'm deeply shocked that the HAQ forum mod doesn't have a house full of GPS clocks and stratum 1 NTP servers.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

chris01 said:


> Not a very practical proposition, I agree. However, I'm deeply shocked that the HAQ forum mod doesn't have a house full of GPS clocks and stratum 1 NTP servers.


He would if he had permission to have outdoor antenna. A GPSDO would be followed by primary frequency standards. Not certain that the wiring could handle the power load and where do the emergency power supplies fit?


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

chris01 said:


> GPS synchronisation works well on demand. However, I have been completely unable to get an automatic update, having tried normal daily wear, leaving the watch in bright daylight in front of a window, and standing outside with the dial exposed to direct sunlight.


I'm pleased to say that, 3 days after the last manual synch, I left the watch outside in the sunshine for an hour and it managed an automatic synch. It also reports a successful leap second update (no actual changes, of course). I still don't know how long it takes, as it was too cold to stand there waiting for the displayed status to change. Unworn, the rate is a steady +135 SPY.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

That's good to hear! I haven't gone back to the manual but how do you know that a synch has occurred other than checking the time drift that is unfortunately rather large on yours? Since you write that it reports a leap second update it seems it might be showing these events somehow? With a date/time?

Also, after a synch (easier to check with a manual one) is it spot on compared to one of the smartphone apps and/or a reference tool? My 5600-WS can be a bit off...


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

webvan said:


> That's good to hear! I haven't gone back to the manual but how do you know that a synch has occurred other than checking the time drift that is unfortunately rather large on yours? Since you write that it reports a leap second update it seems it might be showing these events somehow? With a date/time?
> 
> Also, after a synch (easier to check with a manual one) is it spot on compared to one of the smartphone apps and/or a reference tool? My 5600-WS can be a bit off...


The watch has Y/N markings on the seconds dial, plus a multi-purpose status dial. To check updates you press and release button B (at 10 o'c) and the status indicates '1' for time update while the seconds shows Y/N. Press it again within 5 sec and the status indicates '4+' (for TZ update) or 12 o'c (for leap seconds), whichever is the more recent, and the seconds shows Y/N.

After synching it's spot on (i.e. better than +/- 5 ms) against my GPS/PC reference, using the stopwatch method. Since it's drifting 1/3 sec each day, it's pretty easy to see what's going on! For comparison, after radio synch (UK MSF) my two Oceanus RCs are usually about +0.2 sec.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Some, at least, of what you recited as checks on your Astron must have been in the full manual? I don't remember seeing it in the little booklet that came with mine. And it's gone now so I can't look.

On the subject of RC corrections, the base movement on my RC Citizen drifts fast enough that it makes a difference what time of day I check the timing after a synch. Early in the morning (8-ish) it's about + 0.3 sec, if I check later in the afternoon, it's likely to be + 0.4 or a bit more. I've never checked it immediately after its 2 am synch, and I'm not likely to!


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

artec said:


> Some, at least, of what you recited as checks on your Astron must have been in the full manual? I don't remember seeing it in the little booklet that came with mine. And it's gone now so I can't look.
> 
> On the subject of RC corrections, the base movement on my RC Citizen drifts fast enough that it makes a difference what time of day I check the timing after a synch. Early in the morning (8-ish) it's about + 0.3 sec, if I check later in the afternoon, it's likely to be + 0.4 or a bit more. I've never checked it immediately after its 2 am synch, and I'm not likely to!


The Handy Guide is a subset of the full booklet. The latter was supplied only on the CD that should have come with your watch. You probably didn't want to damage the envelope by opening it. If you ever want to check it out, they can both be downloaded here (look for 8X82):
Instructions (English) | SEIKO WATCH CORPORATION

My RCs are pretty decent standalone quartz performers. Unworn, the S1050 is +40 and the S100 +15 SPY. So far, I haven't spotted any measurable benefits in owning a GPS watch, and I'm completely undecided about keeping the Astron or taking a serious loss on selling, but I do wish that I would be able to live with the Oceanus GPS/RC hybrid.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

chris01 said:


> The watch has Y/N markings on the seconds dial, plus a multi-purpose status dial. To check updates you press and release button B (at 10 o'c) and the status indicates '1' for time update while the seconds shows Y/N. Press it again within 5 sec and the status indicates '4+' (for TZ update) or 12 o'c (for leap seconds), whichever is the more recent, and the seconds shows Y/N.
> 
> After synching it's spot on (i.e. better than +/- 5 ms) against my GPS/PC reference, using the stopwatch method. Since it's drifting 1/3 sec each day, it's pretty easy to see what's going on! For comparison, after radio synch (UK MSF) my two Oceanus RCs are usually about +0.2 sec.


Good to hear about the lack of offset, that's annoying on RC watches and would have been annoying on a GPS watch. It must have required quite a bit of work to get the mechanics in synch with the electronics.

Thanks for the details on the status, but that would just tell you whether the last sync attempt was successful, not whether is was auto or manual or when it occurred?


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

webvan said:


> Thanks for the details on the status, but that would just tell you whether the last sync attempt was successful, not whether is was auto or manual or when it occurred?


You are correct. The leap seconds update is purely automatic, so it's not very important in this context. The TZ update is only manual, so we only have to worry about the time update. It's true that there is no indication of the type of the most recent update, but after about 5 days with no update, the check function shows 'N'. So if you rely solely on automatic updates that don't happen your watch could be showing 5 days' drift before you knew about it. Although I think that mine showed 'N' after only 3 days - I'll check this again.

The manual is rather vague about auto-updating. It says that this will not happen more than once per day but it's not at all clear about how and when it will happen. It seems that for reasonable performance you need to treat this watch just like the F100 and do a manual update every day (or every hour if you're sufficiently OCD).


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

I thought the leap second table update occurs in January and July.


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

ronalddheld said:


> I thought the leap second table update occurs in January and July.


Since leap seconds can occur on 30 June or 31 December, I assume that the tables would need to be updated before those times.

The Astron manual says that leap second update is attempted automatically after automatic time adjustment or manual time adjustment is performed on or after June 1st and December 1st. The leap second data reception is performed every half a year regardless of leap second addition. It takes up to 18 minutes to receive the leap second data. Reception is repeated until successful.

I checked the manual for the Citizen F100, and it's extremely vague. Leap second adjustment can occur automatically in some way - "Leap second setting can automatically be adjusted by executing manual reception 2 (page 40) and using leap second information" - and you can also manually adjust the value, if you happen to know how many leap seconds are currently specified.

I do feel sorry for the technically uninformed buyer, who just wants to own some exciting new technology, and then makes the terrible mistake of reading the manual. Both watches' English manuals are written by non-native English speakers who are probably praying that nobody will ever read them and then ask a difficult question.


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## 325xia (Apr 7, 2014)

I still prefer my LE Astron. Less busy dial than the 2014 chronograph version.


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## richy176 (Sep 26, 2013)

That limited edition is very nice - I have number 4327. Must admit that I am tempted by the new versions - either the LE white dial or the blue dial. Not sure I could justify the additional cost of the LE white though as the blue is soooo nice.


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## 325xia (Apr 7, 2014)

Mine is 3684


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## blurrycloud (Mar 22, 2011)

Anyone know the lug to lug distance for the f100?


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## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

My Astron chrono is gone and my only regret is having wasted a lot of money on the second most expensive and second most disappointing watch I have owned (the Aerospace walked off with the Oscar in both categories, but that's another story).

I knew it was big but I thought the lightness of Ti would make it acceptable. What I hadn't reckoned on was the ridiculous lack of bracelet adjustment. Full-length links of 9.3 mm and a single 2.9 mm micro adjustment meant that for me it was either uncomfortably tight or stupidly loose, which is not good with a big watch. Watch designers, it seems, are prepared to spend more time and effort on the box than on user comfort. Obviously this is highly subjective but there is no excuse for any wearer to be unhappy.

If it had been wearable I might have been able to overlook or accept the performance, but this really wasn't good enough. The basic movement was within the 15 SPM spec but I cannot remember, from way back before the days of VHP, owning any quartz watch that would gain 2-3 seconds per week. The other issue was the GPS sync, which was just plain pathetic. If you have to deliberately poke the thing to get it to synchronise, and the watch only indicates a lack of sync after 3 days (if you ask it) then you can spend your life with a highly accurate watch that's a second or more fast. None of this is in any way outside the Seiko-specified envelope, so it's just too bad.

So for the same (actually far better) functionality in a comfortable watch I'll stick with my Oeanus RCs until GPS is ready for the real world. Now back to our regular, reassuring programming - the good old TC.


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