# Grand Seiko future releases for smaller wrists??



## sagar.tolaney (Jan 22, 2019)

Will GS come up with case sizes like 36mm automatic but with cool texture dials with bright colors as you see on other larger case size dials in automatic models?? I see a lot of vintage GS with 36mm but they all look dull for some reason. I really wish GS comes up with 36mm with cool color dial and texture so Rolex has some nice competition with their DJ or OP SS models. It will be very interesting if GS does that.

GS, are you listening??


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## Sky296 (Feb 23, 2018)

I really hope so! I have small wrists and love GS but have been hoping that they would release a 36 mm soon. I can only keep on hoping.

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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

If they do 36mm it will have to be 9S65, as their other movements like Hi-Beat 36k and Spring Drive tend to be larger in diameter.

I thought they still make the successor to the SBGR001/051 these days. Isn't that still 36/37mm?

They made a few limited editions with interesting dials and colors back during the 9S55 days. I can't see why they couldn't bring this back somewhat with the 9S65.

Yea new GS tends to be on the large side (any non-diver over 40mm is too large imo), this is coming from somebody that has a big Asian wrist size.


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## statuswan (Jun 17, 2019)

At this point I assume the average Japanese wrist is 9 inches in circumference. Also no one in Japan needs to wear a suit because they don't need a watch that slides under a cuff ... Jokes aside I love GS and would be stoked with a 36-38mm release!

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## dayandnight (May 24, 2016)

Would be sweet for a 38- 39mm and thinness under 11

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## jazzy88 (Jun 17, 2019)

A modern GS in a vintage sized 36mm wide and 10mm thick case would peak my interest and immediately start savings in earnest. 

I believe the company and the industry are (finally!) moving past the jumbo case trend, but unlike other brands who sized up their classics GS would need to size down their classics, which represents a much more significant engineering challenge. 

I think they should be putting a lot of staff into making a robust automatic that can fit in a 34mm sub 10mm case that can scale up. Maybe if they take a cue from their own history they can upscale the 6L35 (maybe to a higher number like 6L65) and adjust to GS tolerances. Some of the classic Suwa used the Daini movements (and vice versa) after all. 


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## tomchicago (Feb 15, 2010)

The whole oversized watch fad is fading. Even G Shock, known for large watches, had a smash hit success with their thinner 2100 ("CasiOak") series.


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## solidstate100 (Jan 5, 2013)

tomchicago said:


> The whole oversized watch fad is fading.


It is, but not fast enough IMHO. I am still seeing WAY too many dress style watches at 42mm. Madness.


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## Johnlee1 (Mar 12, 2017)

It kind of went under the radar, but the 9S27 introduced in 2019 for "women's" watches fits in case sizes like 27mm x 11mm, and the caliber itself is compact and thin with a diameter of 19.4mm and thickness of 4.5mm. (The 9S65 is ~28mm and ~6mm thick).

It gives a little in PR and stated accuracy as opposed to the 9S65, at 50hrs and +8 or -3 (vs 72hrs, +5 to -3).

The new direct impulse 9SA5 is thinner as well at 5.15mm, but wider at 31mm to account for two barrels, and rearranging the train for thinness.

I wouldn't be surprised to see new sub-36mm mechanicals using the 9S27 or some variation, and sub-10mm thick using a manual wind version. Same with 9SA5 eventually, with a reduced diameter, single barrel, lower bph version.

I don't necessarily mind a thick caliber for sports and "everyday" watches, like most of GS are, because movement design is definitely a give and take kind of thing. I'm just an amateur, but maybe beefed up plates for rigidity is not a bad thing when durability and timekeeping is a design priority. This article at SJX made me rethink about how PR numbers, bph, diameter, thickness, is not the end-all-be-all when it comes to looking at a design: https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/01/quantifying-performance-movement-design.html

That being said, it would be cool if GS did a purpose-built, ultra-thin caliber ala Piaget or Bvlgari specifically for dress watch application.

(Edit: althoughhhhh the Rolex 3135 is the roughly same dimension as the 9S, and they can fit in ~34mm x 11mm thick Datejusts. So maybe it's just dial depth, case complexity, and display casebacks on GS that give them their size. In either case, they're both thick for durability and timekeeping.)


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## StingF18 (Jan 14, 2020)

dayandnight said:


> Would be sweet for a 38- 39mm and thinness under 11
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


AGREED!


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## riceknight (Jul 14, 2018)

The problem with making movements very small is they can start to become more fragile.

GS has a few 37 ish mm automatic and manual wind eat watches that I think are very nice. I don't think they will move their mainline to this size though. They will probably stay around the 40mm mark for their heritage and elegance watches.


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## mattl6 (Mar 27, 2014)

I have been waiting for a sub 40mm as well. Picked up a 9F in 37mm but would love to see some of the high beats in that size.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

tomchicago said:


> The whole oversized watch fad is fading. Even G Shock, known for large watches, had a smash hit success with their thinner 2100 ("CasiOak") series.


I think it is more fair to say that Casio had a smash hit with the Casioak because it is an attractive design that just happens to be slimmer. I think if the Casioak was a few MM larger it would still be a seller. People were not buying a Casioak because of the size (especially when you can get several other G-Shocks with more features(such as a GW-M5610) for less then what the Casioak is selling for.

I also believe that the G-Shock line is much different then other watch companies lines. Most companies jumped on the large watch bandwagon of the last 10 years while Casio has been bucking the watch trends for decades and offering large watches. In the 1980's most men's watches(except dive watches) were thin and about 32-38mm with the exception of the Casio G-Shock DW-5XXX models. Considered one of the smaller watches in the line up right now, the DW-5XXX series was one of the larger watches in production and folks wanted them that way. The slimmer G-Shock II (DW-5500) was a sales flop in the 1980's when it came out. The great thing about G-Shocks are that there are a lot of choices. Maybe the Casio Rangeman GPS is too big for you. Well there are alot of other G-Shocks to choose from.

I think a big watch when done right is a good watch. Citizen sells a lot of 46mm Skyhawks. They look good on all wrists. in 2019 Seiko dropped the ball when they underestimated the popularity of the new Seiko solar Arnie (a large watch that is very popular) and places were sold out of them for months due to not making enough.


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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

For a reduced diameter sized spring drive you may want to look at Credor.


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## Mark355 (Dec 25, 2012)

Still waiting for a 40mm diver over here like...


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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

Maybe modern designers all grew up wearing POP Swatch.


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## sagar.tolaney (Jan 22, 2019)

krayzie said:


> If they do 36mm it will have to be 9S65, as their other movements like Hi-Beat 36k and Spring Drive tend to be larger in diameter.
> 
> I thought they still make the successor to the SBGR001/051 these days. Isn't that still 36/37mm?
> 
> ...


Yeah even that could work with 9S65 movement but what GS lacks now is interesting colors in their dials for small size watches. Only option is cream or white dial. Just how they have chocolate and peacock dials for 40mm, they need something similar for 36mm. then I think Rolex will have a hard time selling their DateJust or OP. Then You will see good discounts and no waitlist for OP/DJ these days. Even a certain DJ can put you on a waitlist which is nuts.


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## sagar.tolaney (Jan 22, 2019)

krayzie said:


> Maybe modern designers all grew up wearing POP Swatch.


hahaha lol thats funny. It is maybe because of the watch trends. All rolex models tend to be 40mm so that followed the trend. But now the trend is moving towards small case sizes. So GS has to think about that and give something back to Rolex in competition  I have reached out to GS regarding this and they said that the communication has been forwarded to their product development team in Japan.


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## sagar.tolaney (Jan 22, 2019)

riceknight said:


> The problem with making movements very small is they can start to become more fragile.
> 
> GS has a few 37 ish mm automatic and manual wind eat watches that I think are very nice. I don't think they will move their mainline to this size though. They will probably stay around the 40mm mark for their heritage and elegance watches.
> View attachment 15104403


I think that trend can certainly shift as people tend to prefer small size watches these day because they give you the vintage look and it looks more classy. People with large wrists too prefer 36mm these days just for that look.


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## sagar.tolaney (Jan 22, 2019)

Sparrowhawk said:


> For a reduced diameter sized spring drive you may want to look at Credor.


Credor is one hell of a watch. you are right. That is an alternative. But does Credor have any interesting colors like Peacock blue/ chocolate brown??


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## sagar.tolaney (Jan 22, 2019)

Mark355 said:


> Still waiting for a 40mm diver over here like...


Hhaha lol your pics ooze a lot of anxiety lol... Hold on let me call GS and get that taken care of for you


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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

sagar.tolaney said:


> Yeah even that could work with 9S65 movement but what GS lacks now is interesting colors in their dials for small size watches. Only option is cream or white dial. Just how they have chocolate and peacock dials for 40mm, they need something similar for 36mm. then I think Rolex will have a hard time selling their DateJust or OP. Then You will see good discounts and no waitlist for OP/DJ these days. Even a certain DJ can put you on a waitlist which is nuts.


Seiko designers don't realized that their current GS dials are empty and cheap looking because their case diameters have increased drastically in recent years, compounded by the disappearance of the Seiko logo at the top and font associated with fake watches at the bottom imo. The only model that looks right these days is the basic 3 hand Spring Drive, that's until you put it beside the old double logo model. Even their internal factory staff prefers the old designs.

Kosugi got it right with 36/37mm diameter basic GS Auto early on (copy of DateJust I guess). But now Seiko have lost focus on the 9S65 as they want people to buy their 5 digit offerings. They have too many models in the line-up these days anyway. The head designer currently is charge is in his late 20's / early 30's IIRC. He must have grew up wearing ugly oversize G-Shocks or something lol!

Looks like they got a lot of work to do.


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## 007_Omega (Jun 29, 2017)

GS new Spring Drive movement could be capable of some unbelievable pieces, if GS commits. I have no desire for new 36mm watches. GS has their entry level quartz line which is 37mm and honestly I think that is a better size. My biased opinion is that 38-40mm is the sweet spot and I'd love to see more watches in this range. I do think they'd sell a lot of watches offering a thinner and smaller range. GS appeals to true enthusiasts and many enthusiasts prefer smaller watches. I could see Rolex having more of an issue going small, as there is still quite a large market in the mainstream for larger watches.

I don't know how many times I've heard people ask for a thinner and smaller Spring Drive diver. I think it'll happen because you'd have to be an idiot at GS not to see the earning potential there. They don't have to look much further than the BB58 for evidence of that. That being said, I don't think GS will make a 39-40mm diver. They will compromise around 41-42mm, put the new movement making it around 12-13mm thick, improve the bracelet/clasp, and release something that many people will be happy with. The price tag will probably be too high, as they see themselves as more Rolex than Omega but I'd consider making that purchase in the $5-6k range.


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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

sagar.tolaney said:


> Credor is one hell of a watch. you are right. That is an alternative. But does Credor have any interesting colors like Peacock blue/ chocolate brown??


They do have a starlight dial, believe it is dark blue with stars on it. From pictures I have seen it is jawdropping.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

krayzie said:


> Seiko designers don't realized that their current GS dials are empty and cheap looking because their case diameters have increased drastically in recent years, compounded by the disappearance of the Seiko logo at the top and font associated with fake watches at the bottom imo. The only model that looks right these days is the basic 3 hand Spring Drive, that's until you put it beside the old double logo model. Even their internal factory staff prefers the old designs.


I agree that the old generation dials with the SEIKO logo at the top was far more balanced, and as you say, the new dials feel extremely empty in comparison.


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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

007_Omega said:


> GS new Spring Drive movement could be capable of some unbelievable pieces, if GS commits. I have no desire for new 36mm watches. GS has their entry level quartz line which is 37mm and honestly I think that is a better size. My biased opinion is that 38-40mm is the sweet spot and I'd love to see more watches in this range. I do think they'd sell a lot of watches offering a thinner and smaller range. GS appeals to true enthusiasts and many enthusiasts prefer smaller watches. I could see Rolex having more of an issue going small, as there is still quite a large market in the mainstream for larger watches.
> 
> I don't know how many times I've heard people ask for a thinner and smaller Spring Drive diver. I think it'll happen because you'd have to be an idiot at GS not to see the earning potential there. They don't have to look much further than the BB58 for evidence of that. That being said, I don't think GS will make a 39-40mm diver. They will compromise around 41-42mm, put the new movement making it around 12-13mm thick, improve the bracelet/clasp, and release something that many people will be happy with. The price tag will probably be too high, as they see themselves as more Rolex than Omega but I'd consider making that purchase in the $5-6k range.


I'm part of that chorus and I agree completely. 41/42 seems most likely and while a tiny change down from 44mm its very noticeable on wrist.... it's also a huge reduction down from 45-47 which is where the modern releases seem to have landed. Both those sizes should be able to co-exist and give everyone options.

•• sent by two turn tables and a microphone ••


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

sagar.tolaney said:


> I think that trend can certainly shift as people tend to prefer small size watches these day because they give you the vintage look and it looks more classy. People with large wrists too prefer 36mm these days just for that look.


Where are you finding large wrist people that prefer small size watches? Maybe they are trending away from 44+ diameter, but 36mm?


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## sagar.tolaney (Jan 22, 2019)

Jostack said:


> Where are you finding large wrist people that prefer small size watches? Maybe they are trending away from 44+ diameter, but 36mm?


Lol many people who also own 42+mm watches are considering 36mm just to have some diversity in their collection. Sometimes you just want it to look classy at 36mm and not gaudy at 44mm. So they keep a range of sizes in their collection. And I am talking about people with wrist size 7.5 inch.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

sagar.tolaney said:


> Lol many people who also own 42+mm watches are considering 36mm just to have some diversity in their collection. Sometimes you just want it to look classy at 36mm and not gaudy at 44mm. So they keep a range of sizes in their collection. And I am talking about people with wrist size 7.5 inch.


When you say "many", it's a little vague. Reading this thread gives me the impression that you believe the consumer demand is shifting to a degree that is causing manufacturers to offer more smaller watches and less larger watches, and that large wristed people are drivers of this. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't see this at all. 40mm+ is very common, and less than 38 is very uncommon (in typical men's watches). I'm not even accounting for wrist size. I'm just basing this in what I see when I look at new watches, and my personal opinion, also being a large wristed guy. I wouldn't consider a 36mm watch for myself. And are you saying that a small watch is classy, just for the size being small? Am I in the minority? Im not meaning to be argumentative, I just don't see what you are describing at all, or I'm missing something


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## Johnlee1 (Mar 12, 2017)

This is just one survey, so take it for what's it worth. But it was conducted in part bc of posts like this, haha.

2019-05 The Ideal Watch Size Survey Report ? MARK CHO ???

People underestimate their wrist size (avg. ~6.75 in), generally want a smaller watch for the watch they wear most (~38mm), and want a slightly larger diameter (~39mm) for a sports or secondary watch.


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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

Johnlee1 said:


> This is just one survey, so take it for what's it worth. But it was conducted in part bc of posts like this, haha.
> 
> 2019-05 The Ideal Watch Size Survey Report ? MARK CHO ???
> 
> People underestimate their wrist size (avg. ~6.75 in), generally want a smaller watch for the watch they wear most (~38mm), and want a slightly larger diameter (~39mm) for a sports or secondary watch.


thanks for posting that,,, i hadn't seen it before , i have to say i agree with his opinions and findings, glad to see some companies coming around to his mindset.


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## Johnlee1 (Mar 12, 2017)

In a weird, serendipitous turn of events, Mark Cho (co-owner of the Armoury menswear store), the fellow who did that survey, presented his findings to Grand Seiko at Seiko HQ. So I imagine most of the things that were discussed here might actually see the light of day: https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/05/grand-seiko-thin-dress-design-inspiration.html


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Johnlee1 said:


> In a weird, serendipitous turn of events, Mark Cho (co-owner of the Armoury menswear store), the fellow who did that survey, presented his findings to Grand Seiko at Seiko HQ. So I imagine most of the things that were discussed here might actually see the light of day: https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/05/grand-seiko-thin-dress-design-inspiration.html


I have to be honest, I have never understood who Grand Seiko designs their monstrously large dive watches for, it's not as if the typical Japanese wrist is that large.


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## CFK-OB (Oct 15, 2007)

mleok said:


> I have to be honest, I have never understood who Grand Seiko designs their monstrously large dive watches for, it's not as if the typical Japanese wrist is that large.


Well, they definitely designed their 600m diver's watch for me...









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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

CFK-OB said:


> Well, they definitely designed their 600m diver's watch for me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems to fit you well. How large is your wrist?


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## gatormac (Apr 22, 2014)

mleok said:


> Seems to fit you well. How large is your wrist?


I generally agree with everything you say about GS dive watches being too large. However, as you can see, GS and Seiko in general do a great job of both making lugs short but more importantly of curving those lugs to hug the wrist. As result, even their large watches fit relatively small wrists surprisingly well. Their case designs go a long way towards proving that there is a lot more than case diameter that goes into wearability in a watch.


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## dayandnight (May 24, 2016)

Waiting for a 40mm chronograph with thickness of 13 or under.

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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

gatormac said:


> I generally agree with everything you say about GS dive watches being too large. However, as you can see, GS and Seiko in general do a great job of both making lugs short but more importantly of curving those lugs to hug the wrist. As result, even their large watches fit relatively small wrists surprisingly well. Their case designs go a long way towards proving that there is a lot more than case diameter that goes into wearability in a watch.


True enough, I've tried on the 44mm Panerais, and they seem to fit reasonably well on my 6.75" wrist because of the short lugs. Whether the lugs curve also make a big difference, which is why the JLC Reversos wear so large.


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## CFK-OB (Oct 15, 2007)

mleok said:


> Seems to fit you well. How large is your wrist?


About 7.25 inches or maybe a small bit more. I didn't think it would fit me when I found out the size, but the very short lugs allow it to work. It's definitely not a small watch, but it works for me.

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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

mleok said:


> I have to be honest, I have never understood who Grand Seiko designs their monstrously large dive watches for, it's not as if the typical Japanese wrist is that large.


Their stereotypical interpretation of Americans? But if you are going to make a Grand Seiko Professional Diver, shouldn't it be as large or larger than Prospex Professional Divers?

The American Dream where bigger is better...

I think their marketing is at least 3 to 5 years behind. Good thing they have some very talented usability designs from the engineering department.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

krayzie said:


> Their stereotypical interpretation of Americans? But if you are going to make a Grand Seiko Professional Diver, shouldn't it be as large or larger than Prospex Professional Divers?
> 
> The American Dream where bigger is better...
> 
> I think their marketing is at least 3 to 5 years behind.


I was under the impression that the Grand Seiko divers were big even when they were just focused on the Japanese domestic market.


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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

mleok said:


> I was under the impression that the Grand Seiko divers were big even when they were just focused on the Japanese domestic market.


By 2008 their intention for GS was already the international market but it was a soft launch until 2010 when they started to get serious. Around that time the first ever GS Diver was introduced along with the larger GS Auto with Hi-Beat.

I think that was the whole reason to even create a GS diver. It's for competing with the Swiss luxury market and shake off the professional tool image established with Prospex (not upscaled at the time) by doing a 3 o'clock crown and only 200m rating. But it has to be a bigger size for the west.

See how much smaller the dial appears on the MM300 with 4 o'clock crown. Now that was a JDM tool like design imo.

The new ginormous GS Professional 600m Diver (obviously not designed for domestic consumption) came much later because they wanted to gain general acceptance with the overseas market first. All designs are now globalized just like with cars and cupholders.


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## southswell (Aug 23, 2019)

I have watches in the 34 to 44mm range. As a daily wearer for work setting in an office I think sub 39mm would be ideal for me


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## Ghurst (Jun 10, 2019)

SBGR287?


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

40.5mm SD GMT’s


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## Riverman (May 15, 2020)

Am late to the party on this one but I would welcome some smaller offerings from GS. I absolutely love the SBGW hand winders but the dimensions are disappointing. Does a hand wound dress watch need to be that bulky? I was seriously looking at the SBGW231 or 238 recently during my hunt for a hand wound dress watch but ended up with a 34mm Patek whose dimensions just worked so much better for me.

I absolutely love GS but I wish there were better choice for slender wrists. I have a 37mm SBGX quartz and it's about the only thing in the GS catalogue that works for me. Their divers are works of art and doubtless they work for me but unfortunately they'll never work for me.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Riverman said:


> Am late to the party on this one but I would welcome some smaller offerings from GS. I absolutely love the SBGW hand winders but the dimensions are disappointing. Does a hand wound dress watch need to be that bulky? I was seriously looking at the SBGW231 or 238 recently during my hunt for a hand wound dress watch but ended up with a 34mm Patek whose dimensions just worked so much better for me.
> 
> I absolutely love GS but I wish there were better choice for slender wrists. I have a 37mm SBGX quartz and it's about the only thing in the GS catalogue that works for me. Their divers are works of art and doubtless they work for me but unfortunately they'll never work for me.


I believe the thicknesses and diameters of GS mechanical watches (including Spring Drive) are limited by their substantial movements. While the new movements announced a few weeks ago are a bit thinner, it's not all that much less (GS press releases say the new Spring Drive is ~ 1 mm thinner and the new high-beat is 15% thinner). And I'm not sure if the diameters are any smaller.

Some knowledgeable folks have responded to criticism of GS size by pointing out that the movements are thick because they are meant to be robust. Just another point to consider.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Riverman said:


> Am late to the party on this one but I would welcome some smaller offerings from GS. I absolutely love the SBGW hand winders but the dimensions are disappointing. Does a hand wound dress watch need to be that bulky? I was seriously looking at the SBGW231 or 238 recently during my hunt for a hand wound dress watch but ended up with a 34mm Patek whose dimensions just worked so much better for me.
> 
> I absolutely love GS but I wish there were better choice for slender wrists. I have a 37mm SBGX quartz and it's about the only thing in the GS catalogue that works for me. Their divers are works of art and doubtless they work for me but unfortunately they'll never work for me.


I know what you mean about the SBGW231, it is surprisingly thick for a handwind watch with a 37mm diameter. I'm leaning towards a 9F because of the thickness of the mechanical and Spring Drive options.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

CFK-OB said:


> Well, they definitely designed their 600m diver's watch for me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks so large on you...glad you like it. I'd lose my mind with something that large on my wrist.


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## Mr.Jones82 (Jul 15, 2018)

mleok said:


> Riverman said:
> 
> 
> > Am late to the party on this one but I would welcome some smaller offerings from GS. I absolutely love the SBGW hand winders but the dimensions are disappointing. Does a hand wound dress watch need to be that bulky? I was seriously looking at the SBGW231 or 238 recently during my hunt for a hand wound dress watch but ended up with a 34mm Patek whose dimensions just worked so much better for me.
> ...


Still thinking about the sbgv223? I think it is their best quartz dial and I also appreciate that it is in the 3 link oyster. Every time I wear my black dial I wish I would've kept it. If you get one I would be extremely curious to hear your thoughts on it considering the depth of your collection.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Mr.Jones82 said:


> Still thinking about the sbgv223? I think it is their best quartz dial and I also appreciate that it is in the 3 link oyster. Every time I wear my black dial I wish I would've kept it. If you get one I would be extremely curious to hear your thoughts on it considering the depth of your collection.


I'm still thinking about the blue SBGV225, but there are so many other things on my radar, like the Citizen Chronomaster with Washi paper dial, and now the new Ophion Oph 786 Velos, which is only a little bit more expensive, and has an exquisite teardrop lug case from Kari Voutilainen's case company. Also, the newer 9F movement with the independent adjustable hour hand is an interesting development, but it does add thickness to the watch.


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## Mr.Jones82 (Jul 15, 2018)

mleok said:


> I'm still thinking about the blue SBGV225, but there are so many other things on my radar, like the Citizen Chronomaster with Washi paper dial, and now the new Ophion Oph 786 Velos, which is only a little bit more expensive, and has an exquisite teardrop lug case from Kari Voutilainen's case company. Also, the newer 9F movement with the independent adjustable hour hand is an interesting development, but it does add thickness to the watch.


Whoops, sorry I meant 225.
Wow, the Ophion Oph 786 Velos is quite impressive. I love the thermally blued numerals, but then again I prefer the radial finished dials. Either way, beautiful stuff that kinda reminds me of Ming watches but with Arabic numerals.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Mr.Jones82 said:


> Whoops, sorry I meant 225.
> Wow, the Ophion Oph 786 Velos is quite impressive. I love the thermally blued numerals, but then again I prefer the radial finished dials. Either way, beautiful stuff that kinda reminds me of Ming watches but with Arabic numerals.


I do agree that the radial dial on the Ophion looks really nice as well.

Yeah, I added the Ming 17.06 Copper to the collection late last year, and the Ophion does have a similar appeal as the Ming to me.

I also added a Nomos Tangente 35 earlier this year when I was going through Frankfurt.


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## PRabbit (Feb 20, 2020)

DustinS said:


> That looks so large on you...glad you like it. I'd lose my mind with something that large on my wrist.


I think it looks perfect on his wrist. It's a tool watch. I can't understand the desire for dainty looking tool watches. Now if that was a dress watch or even just a sports watch in the same style as an explorer or Aqua Terra, then I would agree it's too large.

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## PRabbit (Feb 20, 2020)

It surprises me every time I see sooo many people agree in a thread for 36ish mm. I understand people with smaller wrists needing them. But I can never tell if it's just a lot of people with smaller wrists in these threads, or there are a lot more people with average sized wrists (which is 7.25in I believe? In the west at least) that just really like small watches. It always makes me question wether 7.25in is in fact NOT the average wrist size and the average is actually lower than that.

I only have a 7.25 in wrist and I still had to get the SBGR307 because it is the only GS non-diver that is 42mm and I didn't want it to be too small. It doesn't look small on my wrist, but definitely doesn't look anywhere close to too large (first pic). Considering I'm right at the average size and 42 is ideal, I always wonder why these threads are filled with the vast majority of respondents wanting as low as 36. Then the divers are both at 44. I agree they are definitely on the larger end. But still look correctly sized for a tool watch. And I get puzzled again why so many people want a 40mm diver. If 7.25 is the average size, I would figure that I would see just as many people on here with larger wrists than I, voting for the larger sizes. But I never do..

I may very possibly have very flat wrists though, which may skew my perception of what a typical 7.25in wrist typically looks like for most people.


























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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

The Ophion is quite striking, what a looker. Looks like a great movement.

I like the 960 even more.

Interesting that the movements are machine finished.


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

PRabbit, interesting feedback. As someone with a six inch wrist, I'm always going to be asking for smaller, but it's hard to tell if it's just a trend thing and tastes are generally on the way back down in size, or if smaller wristed folk are just more vocal because GS isn't making as many watches for us.


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## PRabbit (Feb 20, 2020)

ahonobaka said:


> PRabbit, interesting feedback. As someone with a six inch wrist, I'm always going to be asking for smaller, but it's hard to tell if it's just a trend thing and tastes are generally on the way back down in size, or if smaller wristed folk are just more vocal because GS isn't making as many watches for us.


Or whether the average wrist size in the west is in fact much smaller than 7.25in.

Really I'm just curious whether it is either of those 3 reasons and which one it may be.

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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

ahonobaka said:


> PRabbit, interesting feedback. As someone with a six inch wrist, I'm always going to be asking for smaller, but it's hard to tell if it's just a trend thing and tastes are generally on the way back down in size, or if smaller wristed folk are just more vocal because GS isn't making as many watches for us.


Most likely both.


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## bobs100 (Dec 26, 2012)

I believe the average wrist size is closer to 6.5 inches per a survey posted in an earlier thread.

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## Beadhead (Dec 2, 2014)

sagar.tolaney said:


> Credor is one hell of a watch. you are right. That is an alternative. But does Credor have any interesting colors like Peacock blue/ chocolate brown??


Yes, Credor made a couple of manual SDs with chocolate brown dials but not, afaik, a peacock blue. Some SD's with deep blue dials, though, including a very tasty 'Node' with a moon phase complication and a LE with an Urushi, 'cherry blossom' dial with big date which is a real work of art. Some examples:


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## Beadhead (Dec 2, 2014)

dayandnight said:


> Waiting for a 40mm chronograph with thickness of 13 or under.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lots of vintage 6S Credors out there, including the odd NOS that comes up for sale every now and then. Real bargains, imho. Some examples:


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## austex (May 17, 2009)

certainly hoping so... I have an SBGW231 on my list. would love to see more like this and perhaps even a 36mm.


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## razz339 (Mar 15, 2018)

I hope GS makes a more svelt watch. That is really my only reservation in owning one.


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## fezz (Apr 28, 2020)

PRabbit said:


> It surprises me every time I see sooo many people agree in a thread for 36ish mm. I understand people with smaller wrists needing them. But I can never tell if it's just a lot of people with smaller wrists in these threads, or there are a lot more people with average sized wrists (which is 7.25in I believe? In the west at least) that just really like small watches. It always makes me question wether 7.25in is in fact NOT the average wrist size and the average is actually lower than that.
> 
> I only have a 7.25 in wrist and I still had to get the SBGR307 because it is the only GS non-diver that is 42mm and I didn't want it to be too small. It doesn't look small on my wrist, but definitely doesn't look anywhere close to too large (first pic). Considering I'm right at the average size and 42 is ideal, I always wonder why these threads are filled with the vast majority of respondents wanting as low as 36. Then the divers are both at 44. I agree they are definitely on the larger end. But still look correctly sized for a tool watch. And I get puzzled again why so many people want a 40mm diver. If 7.25 is the average size, I would figure that I would see just as many people on here with larger wrists than I, voting for the larger sizes. But I never do..
> 
> ...


It's not all about wrist size. I have an 8" flat wrist, and I consider my 40mm dive watch to be a large watch. I have 41 and 42mm watches which I love, but I think of them as very large. To me, 36 to 40 mm is a great range.

Fashions change, and what people perceive as normal is what they're accustomed to. We're in the oversized watch era, and the pendulum always swings from extreme to extreme. In the 1970s, bell bottom pants were normal, but the elephant pants were really cool, and those little boot cut jeans were for carpenters and plumbers. A few decades later, carpenters and plumbers were complaining that they couldn't buy jeans that fit over their boots any more; the world had moved on to straight legs, and guys with big feet had to fight to get their jeans on.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Beadhead said:


> Yes, Credor made a couple of manual SDs with chocolate brown dials but not, afaik, a peacock blue. Some SD's with deep blue dials, though, including a very tasty 'Node' with a moon phase complication and a LE with an Urushi, 'cherry blossom' dial with big date which is a real work of art.


Echo this. GBAQ961 on left, GBAQ963 on right. Each about $20K. Using Google Translate I see the 961 is 18K, I expect the 963 is too. Both are cloisonne dials.










Photo from an article by Cazalea at Watchprosite.

Both mechanical, 42mm l to l, 37 mm diameter, 7 mm thick. Talk about dress watches!

Credor can be quite wild in comparison to GS.


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## agentdaffy007 (Apr 12, 2012)

I read an article a while back that GS main goal is to make an everday watch that is robust. Credor is to make a watch that is dressy and thin.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

GS, if you're listening and if it's technically feasible, please make a 39-40mm slimmed down version of the SBGA229 with an updated clasp. It would sell like hot cakes and I would buy one in a heartbeat, possibly even over the waitlisted BB58 Blue.


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## Mbappe (May 13, 2020)

kritameth said:


> GS, if you're listening and if it's technically feasible, please make a 39-40mm slimmed down version of the SBGA229 with an updated clasp. It would sell like hot cakes and I would buy one in a heartbeat, possibly even over the waitlisted BB58 Blue.


That would be the dream!


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## gumpy-au (Apr 25, 2013)

i'm glad others feel this way... overall i feel their watches are on the large side.


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## duckmcf (Jan 29, 2008)

I’ll be all-in if/when GS comes up with a 40mm diameter, 12/13mm thick, Spring Drive, diver. 

Until then, I‘ll keep beating on my Padi Turtle for swimming, skiing and stuff like that...


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## Roningrad (Aug 2, 2018)

duckmcf said:


> I'll be all-in if/when GS comes up with a 40mm diameter, 12/13mm thick, Spring Drive, diver.
> 
> Until then, I'll keep beating on my Padi Turtle for swimming, skiing and stuff like that...


I'm with you on this. I might take the plunge as well for my very 1st SD timepiece. Been keeping my fingers crossed for this some time now.


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## ejhc11 (Jul 29, 2014)

I did something like that, sold my new/unworn AD purchased black BB58 and got a SBGN005. Really happy too..!


kritameth said:


> GS, if you're listening and if it's technically feasible, please make a 39-40mm slimmed down version of the SBGA229 with an updated clasp. It would sell like hot cakes and I would buy one in a heartbeat, possibly even over the waitlisted BB58 Blue.


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## bjn74 (May 17, 2017)

ejhc11 said:


> I did something like that, sold my new/unworn AD purchased black BB58 and got a SBGN005. Really happy too..!


How would you compare the 2? I've got the BB58 and want to add a gmt. Hard to find 40mm or smaller, not thick, good looking, not 10 year old, not too dressy, GMTs.

Pretty much all I can find is the Monta Atlas or the GS SBGN003/5! Looks like a super comfortable watch to wear as a daily.

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## ejhc11 (Jul 29, 2014)

BB58 was 39mm but it still wasn't as comfortable as the previous gen used 40mm Submariner I tried on at a dealer, the case of the 40mm Rolex just tapers more nicely on me than the BB58 hence unworned. The Submariner would be an ideal compliment to my GS GMT because the previous gen Rolex actually wears small. And yes the GS SBGN005 is very comfortable and quite slim in height. Sporty with a dress watch size, it's nice give it look.



bjn74 said:


> How would you compare the 2? I've got the BB58 and want to add a gmt. Hard to find 40mm or smaller, not thick, good looking, not 10 year old, not too dressy, GMTs.
> 
> Pretty much all I can find is the Monta Atlas or the GS SBGN003/5! Looks like a super comfortable watch to wear as a daily.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

ejhc11 said:


> BB58 was 39mm but it still wasn't as comfortable as the previous gen used 40mm Submariner I tried on at a dealer, the case of the 40mm Rolex just tapers more nicely on me than the BB58 hence unworned. The Submariner would be an ideal compliment to my GS GMT because the previous gen Rolex actually wears small. And yes the GS SBGN005 is very comfortable and quite slim in height. Sporty with a dress watch size, it's nice give it look.


Even the current generation Submariner is very comfortable, but I guess some people can't get over the fat lugs.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

mleok said:


> Even the current generation Submariner is very comfortable, but I guess some people can't get over the fat lugs.


I suspect if they discontinue the current fat lugs it'll become quite collectible one day, and we all know there's nothing a good hype can't hype.


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## bjn74 (May 17, 2017)

mleok said:


> Even the current generation Submariner is very comfortable, but I guess some people can't get over the fat lugs.


I owned a SubC and sold it ('upgraded' to it from the BB58). I never looked at it and specifically thought 'gee, those lugs are fat'. I have a 6.75 inch wrist though, and the BB58 looked better on my wrist and soon after I got the Sub I kind of regretted it based on how it wore on my wrist. I loved the overall design/look, just didn't fit like I wished it did. Now looking to get an Explorer 1 instead (as well as the GS GMT) to go with the blue BB58 I recently picked up (currently my only watch).


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## ejhc11 (Jul 29, 2014)

mleok said:


> Even the current generation Submariner is very comfortable, but I guess some people can't get over the fat lugs.


Yes, I am not a fan of the new gen Submariner, it's not as svelte, lol... I really have small wrists at 6.25" - the BB58 was still a little too chunky for me.


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## New_World3 (Nov 13, 2020)

ahonobaka said:


> PRabbit, interesting feedback. As someone with a six inch wrist, I'm always going to be asking for smaller, but it's hard to tell if it's just a trend thing and tastes are generally on the way back down in size, or if smaller wristed folk are just more vocal because GS isn't making as many watches for us.


GS does made smaller sizes, and the finishing can't be beat


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## cordi7 (Jan 27, 2019)

Having an average wrist of 18-18,5 cm wrist (~7,1 inch) I wear ~36 - 38 mm for dress pieces, ~38 - 40 mm for EDC and ~40 - 42 mm for divers / tool watches. Now the thing with GS is that all the divers, which I love, are just huge (both in diameter and thickness). That’s my biggest problem, as they are elegant pieces I would prefer them to be a bit smaller... but overall going too small is as bad as going too big. Why Grand Seiko cannot offer a wide and balanced portfolio? You have people with 16,5-17 cm wrists as well as those with 19-20 cm wrists.


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

New_World3 said:


> GS does made smaller sizes, and the finishing can't be beat


Yes the newer SD GMT's at 40.5 are a step in the right direction, however I'm still waiting for my long awaited new diver in around that size. Unfortunately the thickness of even those models may still be a barrier for some


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## SolarPower (May 14, 2012)

I hope that I am correct and there is a new trend in the industry towards smaller watches. Zenith, for one, has announced number of 38mm models coming. I hope GS is looking at this option, as I believe, many would jump on smaller-thinner bandwagon.
Rolex IMO did a wrong move to larger cases.


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## New_World3 (Nov 13, 2020)

ahonobaka said:


> Yes the newer SD GMT's at 40.5 are a step in the right direction, however I'm still waiting for my long awaited new diver in around that size. Unfortunately the thickness of even those models may still be a barrier for some


Kinda sprucing


SolarPower said:


> I hope that I am correct and there is a new trend in the industry towards smaller watches. Zenith, for one, has announced number of 38mm models coming. I hope GS is looking at this option, as I believe, many would jump on smaller-thinner bandwagon.
> Rolex IMO did a wrong move to larger cases.


Idk i think 39-42mm are the sizes I think will sell the best overall.


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