# Officine Panerai 233



## Travelller

*Intro*
Officine Panerai aka *PAM* watches have been an _infatuation_ of mine for quite some time. This is an account of my personal quest to learn about, choose, search for and find my very first PAM... 










*History*
Most reading this post are quite familiar with OP but for the sake of completeness, I'd like to skim over _some_ of the historical highlights. Panerai built various nautical instruments for the _[Royal] Italian Navy_ in the late 1800s and early 1900s and around 1936, the Navy commissioned OP to make a dive watch for their _frogmen_. Said frogmen would man an S.L.C. _(Siluro a Lento Corsa - aka "PIG")_, a slow-moving, torpedo-shaped underwater vehicle used to approach enemy ships undetected, plant explosives on their hulls and retreat. In order to assure their success, _timing was critical_. Panerai turned to *Rolex* for this and that is how the PAM came to be...

1864 - *Guido Panerai & Sons, Firenze*, produce instruments for the Royal Italian Navy
1926 - Rolex introduces their 47mm Oyster _pocket watch_ (pillow-case form / future Radiomir format)
1936 - 1939 - Rolex commissioned to make 2533s for OP (_dot-dash dial_, later followed by 3-6-9-12 "Radiomir" dials)
1940 - 1942 - Rolex-built 3646 (3-6-9-12 - with and w/o labels aka Kampfschwimmer & California dials*)
1938 - 1949 - Sandwich dial / crown-protection bridge / 200M resistance / first application of "Luminor"
1952 - 6152 w/integrated lugs (fits Rolex mvmt only)
1953 - the Luminor aka "1950" case is introduced
1954 - 6154 3-6-9-12 Radiomir Panerai - _last Rolex-made PAM!_
1955 - 1956 - 6152/1 3-6-9-12 Radiomir Panerai and w/SecsSubdial Marina Militare, w/bridge (now fits either Rolex or Angelus mvmts)
1956 - 2/56 Egyptian Radiomir Panerai 3+TM-6-9+SecsSubdial-12 (60mm!)
1972 - *Giuseppe Panerai* hands over OP to Panerai Engineer *Dino Zei*
1983 - *Mario Paci* joins OP
1993 - 1st commercial release by OP / start of "Pre-Vendôme" period (1993~1997)
1993 - The _Mare Nostrum_ chronograph, first prototyped in '43 is now released along with their_ Luminor Marina_ model
1995 - Sylvester Stallone commissions own variations of the PAM, known as "SlyTech"
1997 - "Pre-A": Vendôme (now Richemont) acquires OP but watches still made in Firenze (1998-2001 were made in Vendôme plants).
2002 - OP Neuchâtel _Manufacture_ opened
2005 - P.2002 released - OP's _first_ all in-house movement "inspired by" Angelus...
_*The California dial, which consists of a mix of roman and arabic numerals, was a "sample" dial used by Rolex to show their customers how the dials might look, given one or the other format. OP was under deadline pressures and thus Rolex used some of these dials to fulfill OP's order... . _

The above are most of the "vintage" milestones as well as a few of the post-vintage ones. In summary, OP turned to Rolex as one of the leading houses to build the first "PAM". Subsequently, OP went public and enjoyed an accelerated start thanks to Stallone. Like many small companies, a larger "Group" bought them and brought them into the Int'l mainstream as well as modernized the production process. Fortunately for us, the Group(s), initially Vendôme and subsequently, Richemont, saw the real attraction of the OP name - it's history and has (tried to) preserve the essence that is Officine Panerai... .

_click-the-pics for hi-res goodness_


*Search for the right PAM*
Like many, I was first attracted to PAM when "oversize" watches were still the minority and the unique Crown-bridge that characterized the typical PAM. But this initial attraction soon faded when I noted the price tag... . Several years later, my good friend Charles sent me a photo of his new 372 and my interest in OP was rekindled. To my amazement, the prices had skyrocketed beyond belief, but nonetheless, I decided to learn more about Panerai and it's origins. In doing so, I became more and more appreciative of Panerai's history and the fact that a PAM still held much of it's unique and individual characteristics today. That's when I decided I wanted a PAM. Then the hard part came... finding the right one! Charles got me started in the right direction with a few suggestions:

Simple is better
Aim for Special Editions or "firsts"
44mm is good, 47mm even better
The aged-Tritium-patina look rocks.
But even using some of these points as a rough guideline, the list of possible candidates was still impressive. As it turns out, OP has been very busy in it's Vendôme-Richemont days, issuing roughly anywhere from 3~6 SEs annually. This along with their standard catalog which consists of no less than 24 in their "historical" line, a few dozen in their "contemporary" line and a half-dozen "specialties", like their Tourbillion. Each year, a few new models are introduced to the catalog and a few are retired. I'm not certain how many versions of PAMs have been made, but you can believe the number is indeed impressive_ (unless, of course, you're a Rolex historian... ;-))_ Putting a price limit certainly narrowed the list down; For example, I looked up the PAMs that I liked, such as the 203 and 127... . Well, once I put a price tag to the face, roughly €90K and €25K respectively, I soon realized that price would play a critical role in narrowing down my list... :-(



*The short-List*
Here's my final list of contenders, based on my own following requirements:


Seconds Sub-dial; A question of personal taste, my PAM needs to have seconds and the corresponding accuracy certification (COSC or in-house)
Sandwich dial; although not the original "stuffed" dial, the sandwich has become the _de facto_ PAM dial!
Exhibition case; again personal taste, I want to see, to enjoy the heart and soul of the watch - it's movement
Unique movement; Preferably in-house, or a unique third-party movement (Angelus SF 240 / JLC 8-day, etc)
Luminor case with crown protector, preferably a 1950 case, preferably with a domed crystal!
Contrary to Paneristi philosophy, complications are not a bad thing in my book ;-)



Given the above criteria *and* taking price range into consideration, my short-list was down to...


345 - A Special Edition (SE) Ti Destro Monopulsante (Monopusher) Chronograph with the PR indicator on the movement's rear side and no date or GMT complications_ (a la Paneristi style)_
368 - An SE Ti Destro Luminor 1950 8-days with the PR indicator on the mvmt's rear side and no date or GMT complications _(a la Paneristi style)_
275 - a Monopulsante Chronograph equipped w/their P.2004 mvmt using a "classic" column-wheel mechanism, 8-day reserve with PR indicator and 24hr GMT complication
422 - a 47mm nod to vintage Panerai, secs sub-dial, in-house 3-days P.3000 with a power-reserve indicator on the mvmt's rear side, unique & elegant new case
233 - OP's first Luminor to use their in-house P.2002 movement, 8-day reserve with PR indicator and 24hr GMT and date complications
320 - An in-house P.9000 3-days automatic equipped 1950 Luminor with pr indicator on the mvmt's rear side and 12hr GMT and date complications
111 - Luminor Marina, secs sub-dial equipped with a venerable Unitas/ETA 6497 manual mvmt
177 - The Ti version of the 111


I would have been happy with any of the above, but price and availability notwithstanding, my short-list is also in order of preference. So with the list in hand, I started my search. Some of the models were available, but not in the _condition_ and/or in my price range I wanted. The 422 is not even on the market yet, having made it's debut in this year's Baselworld. The 320, 111 and 177 were available in several local ADs but I kept going back to the 233, having labeled it as my Goldilocks of PAMs. I couldn't afford the AD's price for one, but I looked and I looked and I looked... until there it was, a 233 in NIB condition at almost the price of a 320!!



*My PAM 233*


PAM00233 Luminor 44mm 1950 8 day GMT
Year: 2011 "N", limited to 1000 units
Completed in Neuchâtel , Apr 24, 2012
Case: OP6660 - 44mm, 1950 style, brushed 316L stainless steel, Bezel, polished, crown-protector, brushed, sapphire-exhibition case-back
Dial: Black Sandwich w/green Super-LumiNova layer
Hands: stainless-borders, green Super-LumiNova
Crystal: 2.6mm anti-reflective-coated "domed" sapphire crystal
Movement: P.2002/1 in-house - hand-wound, three-barrels, 8-day reserve, zero-reset secs, 21 jewels, 247 components, KIF shock system
Functions: Hrs, mins, secs, 12-hr GMT hand, 24hr GMT indicator, numerical date, power reserve indicator
Other: Water Resistant to 100M (10ATM), rubber "OP" straps, calf leather "fluted" straps, brushed screw-in buckle, quick-release strap system, pear-wood case

The 233 debuted in 2005 and was one of a few PAMs to use an iteration of the new P.2002 in-house movement. The movement was given the designation of P.2002 in honor of OP's first own manufacture opened in Neuchâtel (CH) in 2002. The 233 uses all of the P.2002's functionality while other PAMs, such as the 368, use only a subset thereof. Most Paneristi would prefer to do without many of the P.2002's functions, such as the date, 24hr GMT and power reserve indicator. Most agree however, that the 44mm 233 is one of the more "adaptive" PAMs, wearable in all situations. The fact that I like complications and that I can only afford _one_ PAM makes the 233 the perfect PAM for me!

The 233 has all my prerequisites and then some; I get a brushed Luminor 1950 case, sandwiched with polished bezel and (polished) exhibition case-back; brushed crown-protector with the classic "Reg. TM", a sapphire "domed" crystal, a sandwiched dial with brilliant green Super LumiNova, stainless-framed, Super LumiNova hands and last but certainly not least, an elegant and capable 8 days in-house movement! Like many PAMs, the 233 comes in an elegant _(and rather large)_ pear-wood case, two straps, one screw-in buckle, a screwdriver (for said buckle) a quick-release* tool (strap removal) a user guide and _personalized owner's book_ that includes the unit's specifications, serial numbers as well as the in-house accuracy certification. OP verifies the watch's accuracy in six positions. It is critical to note here that although PAMs are oversize _watches_, they are not necessarily exclusive to oversize _wearers_... . This is made readily clear by the fact that the supplied straps are *115/75* (!) Another interesting fact is that the 233's unique "fluted" calf strap is actually more or less a copy of OP's rubber strap - something that I really like. For those less enthused, please see my "straps" annex below b-)

_ *OP's quick-release system is a combination of push-lock and a specially-shaped strap bar. Pushing a button located on the back of the lug releases the bar. Extremely convenient, however do note that the bar has a thinner, weak section which allows for the push-pin to interlock with the bar.; many would prefer to stick to screw-in bars. _



*Complications*


Eight-Day Reserve; while many might not consider a watch's power reserve as a complication, you have to appreciate a manually-wound watch that will last eight days. OP chose this amount in homage to the venerable Angelus SF 240 (and perhaps even the JLC 1877) movements.
Seconds sub-dial; I've always considered a three-hand watch as the norm and a PAM is no exception. Additionally, all PAMs with secs complication are certified _chronometers_. When you are dealing with watches in this price range, I believe chronometer certification is a must... .
The power reserve complication is simple; either you like it or you don't. My preference is to have it on the back of the movement (as in the 345 and 368 for example) but I'd just assume have it than not.
The date is a big no-no for Paneristis. I don't need a date on a PAM, but I do admit the date is a useful complication and certainly don't mind having it. _Quick: what date is it today? I thought so..._ ;-) Additionally, the P.2002 uses a "gradual-change" date mechanism which essentially allows you to set the date by moving the hour-hand _only_ - both forwards and backwards!
GMT: another Paneristi no-no, but I actually use GMT and therefor welcome it. There are two types of GMT complications offered by OP; the first is the simpler 12hr "hand" - a simple solution that relies on one additional hand to denote the hour (1-12), but without 24hr indicator. This is what you get on the 320, for example. Furthermore, you can _hide_ the GMT hand underneath the hour-hand. This is a very cool feature that is sure to please even a hardcore Paneristi, a less-cluttered dial  The 233 however uses the 24hr version. The original 233s (2005~2008) used a simple circle which was green or black, corresponding to day or night. The latter 233s, such as my 2011 "N" unit, use an additional hand on the seconds sub-dial that either points to an AM/PM label. Alas, this version adds unnecessary "traffic" to the dial. <|
Zero-Reset; while not a complication, per say, this is a value-added feature in that it allows you to easily set the time to the second.



*Conclusion*
The PAM is a unique watch with an exciting history that occupies an own niche; I have an elegant 38mm "dinner" watch, a robust sports watch and the PAM completes my _horological trilogy_, a bold, yet equally elegant watch. The 233 is _my Goldilocks of PAMs_, offering a nice mix of history with it's 1950 Luminor case and domed crystal as well as contemporary function with it's modern movement with ample complications. Is the 233 right for you...? Only you can answer that and only after you've gone on your own PAM quest. Truth be told, the search for the perfect PAM is half the fun of owning one! Perhaps the fact that there are so many PAMs makes the search all the more fun :-!











*Annex - Straps!*
Just when you thought your PAM couldn't look any better, you can dress it up with a myriad of aftermarket straps - fondly known as _shoes!_ The Panerai watch is one that easily allows you to tweak the look simply with a change of straps! From classic alligator to a smooth calf to what's known as "ammo" straps _(made from Swiss and French leather ammo satchels)_ to even baseball-glove leathers and everything in between! Straps come in all assorted colors, finishes, thicknesses, straight or tapered, plain or boxed stitching, small or larger keepers, tapered or flat tails and so on.

I've already started a strap collection with my recent acquisition - a Toshi Strap from Rich in the UK. This particular one is his Storm Grey calf and natural stitching, 4.5mm thick with one single large keeper. Oh yes, it also comes with a Pre-V polished screw-in buckle... . _Did I not mention buckles?_ You can customize that aspect of your PAM too... :-d













_EDIT 29th Aug '12_ - Another Toshi strap, this time in cocoa. I also asked him to only punch four holes... ;-)









*Annex 2 - Quick Release*
As shortly discussed in the body of my post, the 233 is one of many newer PAMs to make use of OP's "quick-release" solution. Here are a few macros so that you can see how it works and why some may prefer the old-fashioned screw-bars which have a consistant diameter... .







*Annex 3 - Super-duper LumiNova...?*
One of the things I've read about PAMs is their amazing lume, readable _into the wee hours of the night_... . I can now confirm this; the PAMs are readily legible in the dark! However... there is no _super-duper-Lume_ involved - it is the same lume that all the respectable Swiss Manufactures use; RC Tritec's Super LumiNova. What makes the PAMs [imo] more readable than most is the clean dial and the generous application of lume thanks to the lower level of the sandwich-dial composition. Keep in mind though that the _"stuffed" dials_ may be a notch better in this department, simply because the depth of the sandwich dials most likely causes some minor occlusion, particularly at a shallow POV.

Here is a comparison of three watches known to use RC Tritec's Super LumiNova. Please note that the human eye is more sensitive to green than any other color in the spectrum. The Mühle therefore _appears to be_ dimmer but it will glow just as long as it's green counterparts.

_30s exposures @f/8_

_Please note that all three are visible down to the 30min mark;
If you cannot see them, your monitor may need adjustment._


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## kintaro

Nice to read introduction of your GoldiLocks  - looks like a big love.

Congrats on this beauty! I really love the big variety of PAMs out there - for outsiders not to really to see at first sight, but the more you get into the brand the more you learn about the differences and can pick the right one for you.


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## Watch_guy

Nice job, very well thought out post. 
One thing....
You mention under the section "complications"..that chronometer certification comes with every Panerai that has a seconds function and is a must for any watch in this price range, however, your 233 is not certified. In fact none of the Panerai in house movements are COSC....the only ones that are, would be the cheap old ETA movements 
Nice job on the post! |>


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## Travelller

kintaro said:


> Nice to read introduction of your GoldiLocks ... the more you get into the brand the more you learn about the differences and can pick the right one for you.


Danke sehr! Yes, we are very much in agreement there - chances are that there is a specific PAM suited to everyone's tastes but they will have to do their homework first ;-)



Watch_guy said:


> Nice job ... your 233 is not certified. In fact none of the Panerai in house movements are COSC....the only ones that are, would be the cheap old ETA movements...


Thank you sir 
You are quite correct. I have loosely used the term chronometer to refer to any "verified" watch, not differentiating between in-house and C.O.S.C. verification. :-( I take it that the _Official Swiss Chronometer Testing Institute_ would be just as annoyed with me as Apple is with Samsung... :-d Honestly, _my bad_. Thanks for catching that - we don't want future PAM 233 owners wasting time looking for a C.O.S.C. certificate... ;-)



Travelller said:


> ...my PAM needs to have seconds and the corresponding accuracy certification (COSC *or* in-house) ...a user guide and _personalized owner's book_ that includes the unit's specifications, serial numbers as well as the *in-house accuracy certification*. OP verifies the watch's accuracy in six positions ... *all PAMs with secs complication are certified chronometers.* When you are dealing with watches in this price range, I believe *chronometer certification* is a must... .


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## Travelller

FWIW, Panerai has an own name for their accuarcy test: CTMP (*Contrôle Technique des Montres Panerai*) :-!

*PANERAI TESTS FOR WATCHES WITH IN-HOUSE MOVEMENTS*
In the course of their construction at the Panerai Manufacture, the in-house calibres - and the watches as a whole - are certified after undergoing several demanding final tests of its accuracy, regularity of operation, ageing and water-resistance.

*RATE CONTROLS AND CTMP TEST (CONTRÔLE TECHNIQUE DES MONTRES PANERAI)*
Test carried out to check the regularity of operation of the movement combining the measurement of the average rate at a given moment and its stability in operation over time and in different positions of the watch.

*CHRONOFIABLE® TEST (NIHS 93-20 STANDARD), ACCELERATION TEST (NIHS 91-10 AND NIHS 91-30 STANDARDS)*
These consist of checks carried out over 21 consecutive days, during which the movement is subjected to various dynamic stress cycles, to assess the resistance of all the components, the maintenance of a regular rate and of the correct functioning for the period indicated. The test cycle is equivalent to the use of the watch for about 6 months on the wearer's wrist. Thermic and climatic tests are also carried out over 14 days in total (included in the above-mentioned 21 days), exposing the watch between 17°C and 57°C with 75% humidity.

*AGEING TEST OF THE HAND-SETTING MECHANISM AND WINDING STEM*
This test is performed by carrying out a series of 1,000 cycles on the winding stem and the hand-setting mechanism, followed by a resistance test of the winding stem subjected to a force of 25N.

*AGEING TEST OF THE WINDING MECHANISM*
This test simulates the use of the watch for about 5 years.

*ANTIMAGNETIC WATCH (ISO 764 STANDARD)*
In the presence of magnetic fields of average intensity (4,800 A/m) the watch must continue to run regularly.

*TESTS CARRIED OUT ON THE CASE*
The quality of every single component of the case is checked. Then, after the case has been assembled, it undergoes its first test for water-resistance, to guarantee the protection it provides against the infiltration of dust and humidity. When the watch (case, movement and dial) has been assembled, it is tested again using various instruments to ensure the perfect water-resistance of your watch. Moreover, the case undergoes: the thermal shock test to verify the resistance of the parts to sudden temperature variations; the damp heat test to determine the reliability of the watch under dampness and heat conditions; the salt spray test to check the corrosion resistance, and the synthetic sweat test to verify possible alterations by artificially simulating the conditions of use.

*WATER-RESISTANCE TEST (ISO 22810 STANDARD)*
The case of the watch is subjected to a long series of tests, carried out at various temperatures and according to procedures which ensure its complete water-resistance. To simulate the effects which could occur in the event of the watch being exposed to a shower or immersed in water for a long time, the case is initially tested by a vacuum apparatus, then it is placed in a little bath with a few centimetres of water for a set period of time. The water-resistance test is carried out by a special instrument which subjects the watch to a pressure significantly greater than the guaranteed value of water-resistance. Finally, the strict Panerai standards provide for a "water drop" test, which is performed by heating the case and placing a drop of cold water on the surface of the crystal protecting the dial. In this way, the possibility that there might be any moisture inside the case itself is eliminated.

*THE WINDING CROWN. SHOCK RESISTANCE TEST*
The test carried out on the winding crown consists of subjecting the crown itself to the shock of falling from a height of 50 cm, with the watch inclined at an angle of 45°, thus unequivocally exposing this component to shocks. The crown must maintain its water-resistance in spite of the repeated shocks it undergoes.

*RESISTANCE TEST OF THE DEVICE PROTECTING THE WINDING CROWN*
This test is performed by carrying out a series of 5,000 opening and closing cycles of the lever of the device protecting the winding crown.

*AGEING TEST OF THE CHRONO PUSH-PIECE*
This test is performed by carrying out a series of 3,000 cycles on the push-piece for the chronograph function, which correspond to 1 year of intensive use.

*WEAR RESISTANCE TEST*
This test is carried out by a series of cycles in which the crown is rotated in both directions (3,000 cycles) with a perpendicular force of 5N.

Information on Panerai's internal quality certification is included in the
*Certificates Booklet* supplied with the watches with in-house movements.
The Certificates Booklet includes:
the watch ID
the international guarantee certificate
the international guarantee terms
the limited warranty terms
the international repair guarantee terms
*the rate controls and CTMP test* (Contrôle technique des montres Panerai)
the details of the tests carried out on the other components of the watch


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## kiwidj

Nice post! Awesome PAM. I love how it looks on that grey strap. Congrats and enjoy.


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## Watch_guy

Good info on the in house process.
I do know that in the horological world, the term "certified chronometer" is strictly reserved for watches which have COSC.
I find it interesting that Panerai would submit the ETA movements but not their own??


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## Travelller

Thx, Kiwidj 



Watch_guy said:


> ...I find it interesting that Panerai would submit the ETA movements but not their own??


Agreed. At first I thought it logical until one considers the fact that Rolex sends out their own to C.O.S.C. ... Perhaps it's a question of cost (maybe Rolex has a good "volume" deal with COSC ;-) )


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## gregvisser

This is so good it should be a sticky. Just because. Your pics are off the planet good. 

Really like what you did here. 

Greg


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## Watch_guy

Travelller said:


> Thx, Kiwidj
> 
> Agreed. At first I thought it logical until one considers the fact that Rolex sends out their own to C.O.S.C. ... Perhaps it's a question of cost (maybe Rolex has a good "volume" deal with COSC ;-) )


Unlikely that it is cost, considering they are sending themmovements from their less expensive pieces....My guess is that they are not comfortable with their house movements passing COSC standards


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## cs12

Great post but you need to elaborate more on the Stone Connection and how it all happened as its an important part of their history.


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## Travelller

cs12 said:


> ...you need to elaborate more on the Stone Connection...


Glad you liked it!
Although the primary goal of my post was the 233, I would be more than happy to discuss the history further in this thread  If you have any input on Sly's contribution and even how he "stumbled upon" OP I'd really love to know more


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## Travelller

Watch_guy said:


> ...My guess is that they are not comfortable with their house movements passing COSC standards


You could be quite right. While I don't pretend to understand all the testing that takes place, I do understand accuracy measurements in any given position and my 233's figures range wildly:

-5 < x < 7: 1.2s (fully-wound)
hrs hh hb vg vb vh vd
000 +8.6 +6.5 -9.9 +1.3 -3.2 +3.7
168 +6.1 +1.9 -1.0 -8.1 -1.6 -1.9
CTMP <=4: 3.3 _(??? I haven't figured out how this value is calculated...)

_My guess is that Rolex C.O.S.C.ed watchs have much closer figures as -9.9 etc. Despite my 233's questionable "range", I can at least select the appropriate placement every night to keep my 233 on track and although I haven't changed the time in the past 10 days, it is currently +5... so I'll just go with crown-up tonight ;-)



gregvisser said:


> ...really like what you did here.


Thx Greg, glad you like it - I will admit it took a bit of time to put it all together, but as a fellow kick-ass PAM owner, you can easily understand where my passion & drive is coming from


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## uscmatt99

Awesome post and excellent photography. Being in the market for my first Panerai (and probably only one for awhile), this was very helpful.


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## enzo panuccio

I think you should have added to this thread links to all the 20 or so threads you started, that drove us all crazy, addressing the Panerai dials. 
What colour are the hands, what colour is the date, what colour is the writing, is the writing a different colour to the date or is the date the same colour but just a thicker font? 
You remember those. LOL :-d

_only joking travelller._

Great OCD post son, and I'm glad you finally made a decision as to which Pam to buy! :-! 
Which Canon camera/lens are you using for your pics travelller? They're fantastic quality!

roger

_give me a meal which in my mouth dances a tango
...give me a woman who in my bed inspires an encore
......give me a name when called sings of an aria
.........give me a timepiece that does not lose +/- 5 seconds a day_

_*current:

Maurice Lacroix Pontos chrono . (Pt6188 silver on black leather)
Tag Heuer professional 2000 . (blue on SS bracelet circa 1982-1999)
Casio G-shock street rider . (G-314RL)*

*one day:*

*Panerai Pam312 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GOT IT!*_


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## Travelller

uscmatt99 said:


> ...this was very helpful...


Glad to hear it and good luck with your PAM-Quest :-!



enzo panuccio said:


> I think you should have added to this thread links to all the 20 or so threads you started... Great OCD post son ... Which Canon camera/lens are you using...


Thx - glad you can appreciate my OCD ;-) / Lol, here you go, _all twenty_:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/vintage-colored-date-all-newer-contemporary-pams-700491.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/320-...k-not-tobacco-brown-so-what-color-709601.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/arc-scratch-es-brand-new-pam-over-top-ocd-725902.html

I use a Canon 50D / EF-S 60 combo |>


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## Time Collector

Wow! I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one to have such high standards and requirements when it came down to picking my first Panerai. Like you, I also selected the Pam 233 for my first. You did a great job.


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## Travelller

Time Collector said:


> ...I wasn't the only one to have such high standards and requirements when it came down to picking my first Panerai...


Thx, fellow 233er ;-) I hope you still have it, or did you flip it on your way to a more purist vintage PAM (127 and so forth)?

I honestly feel that the time spent to learn about OP, past and present, greatly contributes to the pleasure and satisfaction of owning one, particularly the first one. I don't mind helping out people who arbitrarily select a few PAMs and request help in choosing "the best one", but I do feel that they are losing out a bit on _the PAM experience...

_Thanks again to everyone for the positive feedback |>


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## Time Collector

No I still have it and I have since then purchase other Pam's like 338, 025, 305, and another 233I/dot(traded)


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## Time Collector

I guess you can see by my Frogman how much I love the brand.


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## Travelller

Time Collector said:


> No I still have it and I have since then purchase other Pam's like 338, 025, 305, and another 233I/dot(traded)


You've got a nice collection there b-) If I had managed to find a NIB dot I would have taken it over the newer cfg. What made you decide to keep this one instead of the dot? Btw, what's that brown strap you got on your 233?
How's that 338? 42mm... and what I guess is a pretty rare mvmt (P.999)!



Time Collector said:


> I guess you can see by my Frogman how much I love the brand.


:-d :-!

p.s. Seeing as you have a 47mm 305 and a 44mm 025, maybe you can help out this fella ;-)


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## Synequano

338 is one of the best looking 42mm rad,the matte Ti case + gold hands make a sweet combination,put the rare P999 inside and 1year production only..


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## Travelller

*A few strap-comparison photos*

Hi2all,

I added some additional content to the main post _(cocoa strap, quick-release macros and lume comparison)_ and here are some straight-forward strap-comparison pics....

Cheers |>

_click-the-pics for hi-res goodness_








24/24 straight vs. 24/22 tapered...


_And come to think of it, I never shot the OEM strap..._


----------



## enzo panuccio

*Re: A few strap-comparison photos*



Travelller said:


> Hi2all,
> 
> _click-the-pics for hi-res goodness_


3 points -

(1) straps with buckle holes this close always worry me about their longevity, with the leather eventually giving way and the buckle breaking through?

(2) nice to see someone soooooo over the top OCD in everything they do join this forum. :-!

(3) I noticed you got a few feathers ruffled with your very first post in one of the other forums b-)
..and the mods accused you of shilling for a strap manufacturer 
....I wanted to step in to comment and defend you, that 
you weren't shilling at all 
you're just a nut! :-db-):-d:-d:-d:-d:-d

rog.


----------



## Travelller

*Re: A few strap-comparison photos*

^^
(1) I don't know, Roger, these straps are 4.5~5mm thick!!! Can you post a photo of a more reasonably-spaced strap please?
(2) :-d
(3) Don't get me started... if you can't talk about straps for your PAM on a PAM forum... :-s Not to mention [technically] navigating that forum is a PITA - if it wasn't for the search engine, I would have left after day one... o| Nice people though... :-!

ciao,

Sergio


----------



## TDR1982

Pams and straps go hand in hand... Discussion of the strap makers work should be observed along with the thoughts on the watch!

Love the post def useful for a noob. I recently bought a 428 and that decision followed a process of elimination not too different from your own.... 

The question is... What next?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk


----------



## ken6217

Nice post. You might think about getting a girlfriend though. 
Ken


----------



## Travelller

TDR1982 said:


> ... The question is... What next? ...


Thx/ congrats on your 428 (Genève!) 
Next... ? Financial recovery, lol :-d But if you mean after that, well, a 422 would compliment the 233 quite nicely - 47mm / P.3001 / aged-trit-patina colors, engraved writing, simple dial, polished case; the only thing it has in common with the 233 is a domed crystal, but I assume since it's not a 1950 case, the crystal will have it's own, distinct look* ... |>

*EDIT - Looks like the 422/423 will sport the exact same crystal "shape" as the 372, just in sapphire instead of plexi.


----------



## Travelller

Today things were running smoother than usual in the office, so I took a few wrist shots...
...my first wrist shots _...ever._

Not quite there yet... :think:

















...but I'm working on it ;-)


----------



## Amnaggar

I've been wearing my 372 EVERY day since I bought it end of August. I headed to the Boutique couple of days ago to try on the 441 (alas sold!) so tried on the 233 just to see what all the buzz is about... I didn't like it Travelller! I just don't like its edgy, "harsh" look.. and the shape of the crystal, too! I've always liked your choices.. Sorry not this time . I love it when we can agree to disagree!


----------



## Travelller

*There's a PAM for just about everyone and this one's mine...*



Amnaggar said:


> ...tried on the 233 just to see what all the buzz is about... I didn't like it Travelller!


That's fine, Ahmed, I always said that there's a PAM for everyone and no single PAM is for everyone... :-! 
Enjoy your 372 _(oh - and be sure to post a few pics, when you get a chance ;-))_b-)


----------



## Amnaggar

*Re: There's a PAM for just about everyone and this one's mine...*



Travelller said:


> That's fine, Ahmed, I always said that there's a PAM for everyone and no single PAM is for everyone... :-!
> Enjoy your 372 _(oh - and be sure to post a few pics, when you get a chance ;-))_b-)


Someone I sent pics yesterday to sell my IWC Jubilee (as a trade for BRONZO o| though I don't want to let this one go!) said I need a new camera :-( so I'll ask my son to take some for both watches and post some for the 372 here..


----------



## Amnaggar

*Re: There's a PAM for just about everyone and this one's mine...*

Here u go...


----------



## handwound

*Re: There's a PAM for just about everyone and this one's mine...*

Great thread, Serge. That's a lot of effort invested here. Thanks.

Ahmed, please make an attempt to resize your photos in the future. I know the forum automatically resizes the "thumbnails", but still. Thanks, in advance, for your consideration.


----------



## G-F

Awesome post! Great read! Holy mesmerizing awesomely pics!
Thanks!


----------



## quarter8

Good choice.
It is worth to buy 233 with such complicated calibre in terms of 8 days, GMT, date, day/night, second reset.


----------



## mpalmer

Thanks for the comprehensive review. Congrats.


----------



## Fomenko

Traveller, this thread is excellent, and a must-read for all of us who are considering the purchase of a Panerai!
Thank you for taking the time and effort to post it. It's one of a kind really... |>


----------



## Travelller

@Fomenko, thank you for the kind words - glad to see the fruits of my labor put to good use 

Here's the next bit of info I've posted elsewhere - the actual thickness. I pleaded with several to reciprocate with their own 372 / Luminor* / 1950-autos / Radiomirs - but no luck so far. 
_*Non-1950 case by Bettarini & Chellini, pre-V era - now used for many historical models (000, 005, 111, 112, 177, etc)_

I measured the 233 over the center of the dome and it comes out to *17.5mm* (I used calipers). I tried to _eyeball_ the actual components and came up with approx. *3.5+8+3.5+2.5* _(lower bezel, case, upper bezel, crystal)._ I also approximated it with pshop and the results are *3.2 7.7 3.2 3.4*... .


----------



## One Ping Only

This is an inspiring thread. My wallet hates it though ;-)


----------



## Travelller

*233 Club!!!*



One Ping Only said:


> This is an inspiring thread. My wallet hates it though...


Well well, looks like you've joined club 233 - congratulations and welcome, sir :-!:-!:-!

Well common' tell us what you think! Forget your wallet - I bet your wrist is _happier than an S.L.C. in ...mud_ :-d


----------



## Fomenko

*Re: 233 Club!!!*

This thread is too good not to bring it back to the first page every now and then!!!

Traveller, I remembered liking the strap that you bought a lot, and after checking it again today, I will be ordering a Storm Grey Toshi for my 112.
Thank you for sharing this, too! :-!


----------



## Travelller

*Re: 233 Club!!!*



Fomenko said:


> ...I will be ordering a Storm Grey Toshi for my 112...


Thank you for the compliments 
Glad to hear it - Rich is a good guy and you're sure to like his strap :-!


----------



## cs12

Travelller said:


> Glad you liked it!
> Although the primary goal of my post was the 233, I would be more than happy to discuss the history further in this thread  If you have any input on Sly's contribution and even how he "stumbled upon" OP I'd really love to know more


Cant remember if I did but explained here:

Panerai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## SeikoSickness

Wow...fantastic thread. And congrats on your 233. I've enjoyed mine as well however, I do prefer the disc version on my K-series model. I wish I had the same level of discipline in selecting a watch. Most of the time it's "...hey...that's neat...let me buy it!!!"...to my wallet's detriment.


----------



## Travelller

Just a short update on the _strap-madness_ part of owning a PAM... ;-)


----------



## leopardprey

Great photos and great review. Nice.


----------



## Time Collector

I'm sorry but Travelller did such a great job on this review I had to revive it.


----------



## amanda

Fantastic thread! Great review Traveller


----------



## jpretz

I love those straps, and obviously your thought process is sound!


----------



## Travelller

Thanks guys :-!

After 14mths of happy ownership, I took my 233 to its "spiritual birthplace" for a very special GTG...
...it just made owning a Panerai all the more special ;-)


----------



## Time Collector

Wow! travelller, I see that your watch has gone full circle. and you are the one that deserves the thanks for letting us share in your wonderful experiences through your pictures and write-ups.

Thank you !


----------



## Travelller

Time Collector said:


> ...I see that your watch has gone full circle...


Thanks Anthony, yes it has  I'm not sure it will make it to Venice this upcoming Oct. for P-Day 2014, because _its bigger brother_ has yet to visit _the motherland_... ;-) Actually, I wanted to share these shots here to show everyone the visual difference between a 44mm and 47mm PAM and it's a lot easier when they are both of the same type (1950 Luminor case, domed crystal)



_despite the very different movements, the thickness is exactly the same... !_


_Domed crystals rock_ |>


----------



## Mercury2wo

*Re: There's a PAM for just about everyone and this one's mine...*



Amnaggar said:


> Here u go...


Fellow Dubai Paneristi? 
My 422 says Hello!!

Perhaps a Dubai Paneristi GTG sometime? How many more of us here in Dubai?


----------



## Mercury2wo

What an amazing post! I could feel the entire decision making process!!


----------



## Time Collector

Hey Travelller, I would like to know which one gets more wrist time : The 217 or 233


----------



## Travelller

Time Collector said:


> Hey Travelller, I would like to know which one gets more wrist time : The 217 or 233


Well that's easy, the 233. Maybe the reason's because my 217 is over at R.S.C. getting serviced... :-d

The 233 is a _grail watch_ and one of my favorite PAMs - I love it as much as the day I first saw it :-!

_Speaking of which, today's wristshot_









Having said that, the 217 is a _grail PAM_...
...and also definitive proof of my addiction to Panerai and it's fascinating history... b-)



Once it gets back to me, all other watches in my stable will hardly see the light of day...
...at least for the first few months... ;-)


----------



## Travelller

_Springtime, sunshine and Panerai = b-)_


----------



## Travelller

*I was never really into leather...*

...'till I discovered Panerai...
...and now I only buy stuff that goes with my Panerai straps... :-d



















Speaking of leather, I never thought I'd buy OEM; not that OP doesn't have some very nice straps on offer, but there are many excellent custom strap makers out there to keep me more than satisfied. However, when I saw the _"black calf vintage"_ for the first time (I think it was the 508), I had to have it (or something very close to it). I inquired by my favorite strap makers and one even sourced this type of "cracked" texture, but the third-party leather had more cracks than leather :thinking: (I'd call it super-distressed). It also happened to be my birthday and so I gave my GF a hint... ;-)

_click-the-pics for hi-res goodness_










|>


----------



## Mike Bettencourt

*Re: I was never really into leather...*

Thank you for an amazing write up with some incredible photography. I'm a photographer but have never done macro photography... I'd love to know the lens used! I particularly like how you went through your decision making process. I have been trying to narrow down my first PAM purchase. I believe I have settled on either the 233 and the 270 but am leaning towards the 233. I found this by searching google for Panerai 233 review. Glad I found it! You have confirmed my reasons for wanting this model - I just never wrote them down. I love the domed crystal and the power reserve. I think I might like an automatic better (270) but I like the overall style of the 233 more and I like the unique movement. I also like the date and the second hand. My brother in law is moving overseas this summer so I think I'd get some use out of the GMT as well. I'm now trying to decide between the DOT and the am/pm on the pre-owned market.


----------



## Travelller

*Re: I was never really into leather...*



Mike Bettencourt said:


> ...I believe I have settled on either the 233 and the 270 but am leaning towards the 233 ... I think I might like an automatic better (270) but I like the overall style of the 233 more ... now trying to decide between the DOT and the am/pm on the pre-owned market.


Welcome  - glad I could help ;-) The 270 is very nice, particularly if you insist on an automatic movement but beware it sits higher on the wrist for obvious reasons. I happen to love the look of the P.2002 - very modern lines. More importantly, I'm a big fan of hand-wound movements.... b-)


Regarding DOT vs. AM/PM, I believe I mentioned in my original post that I'm partial the simpler look of the DOT but I'm quite happy with the AM/PM. A DOT NOS ... now that would be the ultimate find b-)

Take your time, get the one that you like the most! Good luck :-!

p.s. I use my Canon EFS-60 Macro exclusively for all my still-life work, not to mention for the occasional portrait (very sharp lens!!!) |>


----------



## Fyif

thanks for sharing, nice picture


----------



## cs12

*Re: I was never really into leather...*



Mike Bettencourt said:


> Thank you for an amazing write up with some incredible photography. I'm a photographer but have never done macro photography... I'd love to know the lens used! I particularly like how you went through your decision making process. I have been trying to narrow down my first PAM purchase. I believe I have settled on either the 233 and the 270 but am leaning towards the 233. I found this by searching google for Panerai 233 review. Glad I found it! You have confirmed my reasons for wanting this model - I just never wrote them down. I love the domed crystal and the power reserve. I think I might like an automatic better (270) but I like the overall style of the 233 more and I like the unique movement. I also like the date and the second hand. My brother in law is moving overseas this summer so I think I'd get some use out of the GMT as well. I'm now trying to decide between the DOT and the am/pm on the pre-owned market.


If you want to investigate Macro but dont want to spend big on a macro lens you could look at extension tubes and magnifying filters.

Wont get as good results as a Macro lens but a good introduction without spending 1000s on a proper macro lens.


----------



## khakha

*Re: I was never really into leather...*

Travelller has sold another PAM 233


----------



## Travelller

khakha said:


> Travelller has sold another PAM 233...


Congratulations, looking good, sir! :-! I hope you and your wrist will enjoy it for a long time to come, hope that your bank account will not hold it against you (...or me... :-d)

Enjoy!

Oh... and let the strap-collecting begin ;-)


----------



## khakha

It does burn a hole in my bank account. Oh well, the beauty of 233 is irresistible! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Michael.4980

Hello Travelller, 

Absolutely terrific attention to detail. 
I consider myself detail oriented as well, and that is part of the attraction to mechanical watches. I too am partial only to manual movements. I just took delivery of my BNIB 233 yesterday, I have already rejected one due to imperfections, and have a few questions that I am having difficulty finding on the forums while it is still returnable. Please bear the length and thank you in advance. 

1.) My main concern is the power reserve, perhaps I am particularly concerned because of issues with the early 233 iteration. I wound it fully yesterday @ noon and the PR hadnt budged even at 3:30am. Thankfully, now approaching one full day it has moved but only a little (I know it should be minute because the 1 cm indicator length is to account for 8 + days, but it is almost imperceptable after one full day) N.B. I wound it fully until the clutch engaged, but did not continue to overwind. I personally believe it is good to fully wind and fully run-down the main spring the first few runs because it conditions the main spring to its full capability/tension and subsequent length. 
Anyway, I see there is a bit of length to the PR indicator on both left and right -- falling in line with the anecdotal stories of the PR being at zero and still continuing to run for some time. Perhaps I can assume it is the same condition on the right, fully wound, side? I have not had the time yet to let it run to see if it will zero-out properly. Your experience? 

2. ) When advancing or retreating the hour hand in the 1st crown out position, the minute and GMT hands wobble/turn slightly as if loose. Is this normal? I've seen it in one youtube video. Your experience? 

3.)The sub second snap-back zero's slightly to the left of the 12 position marker. I notice this in your lever out shot as well. Can you confirm this is normal? 


GOOD THINGS: 
So these are pleasant surprises I have experienced that I have not seen expounded on the forums. 
1. ) It sits lower -- in the best possible way -- than the thickness indicates. Not slim of course, but sits flatter than my 111. One reason for this not touched upon is that the case "edge" on the case (the brushed area below the bezel) is on the top/upturned, whereas the edge of the 111 is on the bottom and curved at the top (below the bezel). This allows for upward wrist articulation and push down the rounded part into your skin a bit more than the 111 allows -- adding to comfort as well. 

2.) Although lower, it sits wider on the wrist than the 111. I am pretty sure it is 44mm like the 111. Perhaps the upturned edge and the brushed finish allows one to see the full width of the case, while the 111's curved top and polished finish reflects darker objects and so objectively is lost when looking in a mirror. 

Take care, and have a great weekend.


----------



## Travelller

Michael.4980 said:


> ...main concern is the power reserve... When advancing or retreating the hour hand in the 1st crown out position, the minute and GMT hands wobble/turn slightly as if loose ... sub second snap-back zero's slightly to the left of the 12 position marker...


Thanks & welcome to the 233 club 
Regarding your concerns, the 233 has a PR of almost 10hrs, so yes, it takes a while before passing the full notch on the gauge... this is a good thing because the accuracy is somewhat decreased once the PR hits the 0 mark thus you get 8 days of accuracy and an additional day+ of less than optimal performance. Secondly, yes the other central hands "wobble" as you adjust the hour hand (notice that the hour hand "jumps" to each hour, maybe causing the other hands to "twitch" in the process). Finally, yeah, the second hand's snap-back is slightly off... I guess we'll just have to deal with it... :-d ;-)

Hopefully you can relax a little now and really enjoy your 233 - it's really a great watch and a grail "production" PAM imho |>


----------



## frustin

Loving it! 40th birthday next month....

Couple of questions:

1. It looks like the prerequisite for wearing a PAM is hairy arms. This is a worry, as I dont. Does this matter? 
2. Is there a PAM000233 that does not have the GMT/PM/AM complication? i.e. but everything else.

Beautiful photos.

Justin


----------



## Synequano

I don't have hairy arms yet I have 10+ Pams 

The plain version of the same movt in 233 can be seen on Pam 368,however it is 47 mm and a destro,if you don't like the am/pm,there is also 233 dot that has dot that indicates day/night

Alternatively,there is also 8 days movt with monopusher chrono which is a further development of P2002 in 233


----------



## Wlover

Hey guys 

I bought a BNIB 233 on 2 Jan 2015 and wound it fully. This morning when I look at it it is still moving and the pr indicator is still around just below the 1/4 mark.

What's your experience? I reckon it may go 10-11 days....


----------



## Synequano

I think the PR on the new 233 should be good for 10-11 days

Even on my 345N from 2011,I managed to squeeze 234-235 hrs of pr with ocassional use of the chrono...since 233 has no chrono,theoretically it should have an even longer PR


----------



## Travelller

Wlover said:


> ...I bought a BNIB 233 on 2 Jan 2015 and wound it fully. This morning when I look at it it is still moving and the pr indicator is still around just below the 1/4 mark. What's your experience? I reckon it may go 10-11 days....


Congrats once more and welcome to the club 

As I noted just a few posts above...


Travelller said:


> ...Regarding your concerns, the 233 has a PR of almost 10hrs, so yes, it takes a while before passing the full notch on the gauge... this is a good thing because the accuracy is somewhat decreased once the PR hits the 0 mark thus you get 8 days of accuracy and an additional day+ of less than optimal performance...


p.s. My 217's been hogging all the wrist-time lately but my 233 was on board for yesterday's TGIF ;-)


----------



## frustin

Any ideas what I should be looking to pay for a 233 in UK/europe?


----------



## Synequano

Last year I heard dealers can give you 15-20% off list price,check chrono24 for more informations


----------



## bigclive2011

Keep your eye on Watchfinder.co.uk as they have over 50 Pams in stock at the mo.


----------



## frustin

except the 233  I think i want new as well. Though a less than year old i guess wouldnt be bad either.


----------



## bigclive2011

Can't help with AD prices as I always buy lightly used.

Where are you based cos the UK is a rip off for most things!!

Europe is better, the states even more so.

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## frustin

I am thinking of buying new from italy, looks like i can get one for about £7k new. 

I'm uk based.


----------



## bigclive2011

Italy is a good bet as that will include EU taxes so no nasty surprises from FedEx )


----------



## jen233233

you will probably find that it moves quicker after it gone pass the 4 day mark, at least that is what i find with my 233


----------



## frustin

Where can I try one of these on in the UK? I tried on a Rolex GMT Master-II today, very nice it was too. 41mm on my skinny wrist, it looked good. Concern with the Panny is 44mm. But I still love it.


----------



## Time Collector

frustin said:


> Where can I try one of these on in the UK? I tried on a Rolex GMT Master-II today, very nice it was too. 41mm on my skinny wrist, it looked good. Concern with the Panny is 44mm. But I still love it.


As far as the size goes, it appears to be as big as my 44 mm AP, but it actually wears small for a 44 mm watch. It hugs your wrist, so I think that you can pull it off even with smaller wrist.


----------



## frustin

I tried on another Rolex GMT-Master-II (Blue/Black bezel) today, after having tried on the 233 a few days ago.

The 233 wins.


----------



## Travelller

frustin said:


> The 233 wins.


No arguments here.... 

So now you know what you have to do...

*...join us!!! *;-)


----------



## mastergreenhand

Here's mine. Love it.


----------



## frustin

...and so I will. I was looking at buying brand new from chronos24, from a european dealer as the Euro is so cheap at the moment. Prices look fairly consistent. 

Trouble is I've just read through all 60 pages of the fakes thread and I've learnt an awful lot, but it worries me about buying from a place where I cant see it. Buying in the UK brand new just seems a bit of a rip off when you look at RRP.

There are fake 233's as i just googled for one and immediately got a load of web pages advertising them.


----------



## Synequano

Fake 233 do exist,however if you know what to look for,it will be easier to spot,the P2002 is in house movts that are more difficult to fake in comparison to the standard 6497 or 7750

Don't forget to buy the seller as well,I've dealt with several dealers on C24 and so far everything went smoothly,but usually I buy a watch when I'm travelling


----------



## frustin

Synequano said:


> Don't forget to buy the seller as well,I've dealt with several dealers on C24 and so far everything went smoothly,but usually I buy a watch when I'm travelling


Totally agree. Wife and I will be travelling to Florance in April. There is a Panerai boutique there. This is where i am planning to buy my Panerai. Do you think I need to phone ahead to get one in?


----------



## Travelller

frustin said:


> Totally agree. Wife and I will be travelling to Florance in April. There is a Panerai boutique there. This is where i am planning to buy my Panerai. Do you think I need to phone ahead to get one in?


I'd write to them just to reserve one. Since it's a "flagship" model and as it's not a SE or Boutique edition, they should have a few in stock at all times but why risk it?

boutique-panerai dot firenze at panerai dot com

Besides, there's no where on Earth better to buy your 233... ;-)


----------



## Synequano

Keep in mind there is no discount in the boutique,while on the AD there was around 20% off (at least that's what I was offered when I was looking for 233 in Munich back in 2012,but I ended up getting a 441 instead)


----------



## frustin

Do we know if there are any changes between a 2014 and 2015 edition of the 233? I've got my eye on one in the UK but I've been told it's a 2014 one. Does this matter? It's unworn and the price is significantly better than buying an unworn 2015 in the UK.


----------



## Travelller

frustin said:


> Do we know if there are any changes between a 2014 and 2015 edition of the 233?


I highly doubt it. The big (and only) change was from "dot" to "AM<->PM" starting with the "L" production series.


----------



## watchdaddy1

Great read Bud.Your passion shows through my monitor. Paneristi 4 Life.


----------



## Travelller




----------



## Fomenko

First 1000 posts in WUS, Traveller...
Congrats and thank you for being one of the good guys here! :-!


----------



## Travelller

Fomenko said:


> ...Congrats and thank you for being one of the good guys here!


Gracias, B  I can certainly say the same about you, so thank you too, for making WUS/OP more interesting for us all |>

My pursuit of information regarding Panerai is what got me started here and of course this is probably my favorite and one of my oldest _"own" threads_ ;-)


----------



## JJC_SAS

Hi. You have 2 pics of the back. The left one is a Pam 233. What is the other one? Thanks.


----------



## Synequano

You mean Travelller? I think what you mean is 217?


----------



## Travelller

JJC_SAS said:


> Hi. You have 2 pics of the back. The left one is a Pam 233. What is the other one? Thanks.


:think:
It's one of these...


----------



## DOUBLE 0 SEVEN

Mine says hello..


----------



## ccm123

Nice review and photos!


----------



## jbellmd

Wow. What a review. Pics are spectacular . Sold my 233 a while back..regretting it even more
Jonathan


----------



## watchngars

Crazy; I wore mine today, for the first time in 9 months. i don't even know why I look past it. It's got everything.


----------



## Travelller

Thx guys! 

@Watchngars... 9mths?!? Wow, I couldn't make it 9weeks without my 233, hehe ;-) Looking good, sir! |>


----------



## watchngars

Yes, at least. Incredible... No idea why. Some psychological thing. Probably because I've flipped SO many others, always searching.



Travelller said:


> Thx guys!
> 
> @Watchngars... 9mths?!? Wow, I couldn't make it 9weeks without my 233, hehe ;-) Looking good, sir! |>


----------



## Travelller

Wearing it in OEM black vintage calf b-)


----------



## TripleCalendar

Travelller, you should get commissions. You sold another one! I have one incoming on Friday. A dot dial, recently serviced. It will be my first Panerai.


----------



## TripleCalendar




----------



## dcoy86

I too made a recent 233 purchase. Thanks for the great thread!


----------



## TripleCalendar

dcoy86 said:


> I too made a recent 233 purchase. Thanks for the great thread!


Nice strap. Which one is that?


----------



## TripleCalendar

Have it on natural vachetta leather now


----------



## dcoy86

TripleCalendar said:


> Nice strap. Which one is that?


Custom made Assolutamente leather strap from George. He makes some great pieces. I was told the OEM asumente strap has a cardboard base and his base is leather. George is based out of Taiwan and can be reached at [email protected]
I purchased it from him through eBay.


----------



## TripleCalendar




----------



## lopeydeath

Amazing watch that goes well with both straps, although I think I prefer the lighter version...


----------



## Synequano

233 is a tempting watch,especially at current pre owned price,there's one on C24 asking for $7500...must...stay....strong....


----------



## TripleCalendar




----------



## Travelller

Congrats to the new 233 owners - love the photos too, keep them coming 



Synequano said:


> 233 is a tempting watch,especially at current pre owned price,there's one on C24 asking for $7500...must...stay....strong....


Considering a P.3001-powered 673 will set you back *€*10K roll a *$*7.5K 233 is a fantastic deal :-!

Still my _favorite_, not to mention most _accurate_ and _functional_ watch. I occasionally enjoy having access to the chronograph complication of my Speedmaster or S.A.R. but more important (to me) are the GMT, Date and the amazing 8-day PR the 233 has on offer b-)


----------



## Synequano

I'll wait until I travel again to go and buy a watch,both 190 and 233 dot cost around the same in the current pre owned market,while 233 offers better bang for your buck with all the complications,190's redeeming factor is just the JLC 8 days movt,I'm leaning towards 233 unless I find some other interesting piece at an interesting price (maybe 368? Or maybe pre owned bathyscape/FF)


----------



## TripleCalendar

A few more!


----------



## TripleCalendar

Some fun pics!


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## gerzzzzz




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## gerzzzzz




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## gerzzzzz




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## Travelller

Diggin' those wristshots, gents - 233 lovers, uniiiite!!! 

TGIF :-!

_...dat dooome... b-)_


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## Travelller

"Smiley face"...
...Panerai-GMT style!!!


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## TripleCalendar

Just put mine on a Greg Stevens Sienna strap with old gold stitch. Really like this combo!


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## peterki

Thank you, Traveller, for a great thread and amazing photos! I have my own PAM 233, I series, dot dial. My question: what strap do you wear it on during summer or hot days? I kind of dislike the look of official Panerai rubber strap and do not find the rubber pleasant on the wrist at all when it is really hot.
My provisional solution is mesh.


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## peterki

And two more:


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## Matt C

Man that is a hell of a combo! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## peterki

Matt C said:


> Man that is a hell of a combo!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! It works for me very well, although most of the hardcore Paneristi would probably disagree.


----------



## Travelller

peterki said:


> Thank you, Traveller, for a great thread and amazing photos! I have my own PAM 233, I series, dot dial. My question: what strap do you wear it on during summer or hot days? I kind of dislike the look of official Panerai rubber strap and do not find the rubber pleasant on the wrist at all when it is really hot.
> My provisional solution is mesh.


Thank you, sir 
I love my OEM rubber on the 233. That's the great thing about the 233 - it works with so many options! In contrast, I couldn't wear my 217 on rubber... it just has to be on leather, has to. DNA.

Speaking of the 233's versatility, I am not a fan of mesh bracelets per se, but looking at your photos and that dot-dial plus domed crystal says "awesome combo" to me b-)

T4S and enjoy your 233, sir :-!


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## LB Carl

peterki said:


> Thanks! It works for me very well, although most of the hardcore Paneristi would probably disagree.


I agree with Matt. I only use leather straps for all my watches, but the mesh works really well with your watch. Love the 233, though I've only gotten to see it once in person. The dome is killer!


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## peterki

Of course you're right about the leather. Nothing looks so cool as a 233 on a leather strap - my favourite these days: Hirsch Liberty.
However, being for instance outside in Shanghai in July when it is like 38° C and 90% humidity, I cannot wear a leather strap which would make my wrist and watch swimming immediately.


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## Travelller

Today's combo ;-)


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## peterki

Travelller said:


> Today's combo ;-)


Beautiful croco!!


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## Travelller

_...still the one b-)_


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## Travelller




----------



## galavanter

Wow, what a great read. Thanks Travelller. I should have my L series on wrist by the end of next week. I'm driving across the country to pick it up in CA; as a trucker I drive a similar distance most every week.

I change time zones often, and I'm thrilled to have found a relatively cheap, no box or papers, recently serviced (warrantied) 233 that already has a tiny nick in the side of the case. I'm sure I will add more in the future. Imperfection is my paradise.

It's going to be used to it's fullest extent as a tool watch. My truck is modern, with an automated transmission, and a instrument cluster like any car. The watch, in my mind, harkens back to round gauges, a dozen toggle switches, 13 speeds, manual. I learned on this thread it even has a clutch. I can't wait.

I tried on the 42mm Pam 392 in the Vegas boutique not long ago, thinking 44mm might be too big. With it's auto rotor adding some depth, it seemed about as tall as it was wide; like wearing a tennis ball. It has the jumping hour hand, an essential complication for me, but the 233's hidden GMT hand I had only seen on a JLC Master HomeTime, which blew me away. How cool is that? Although truckers must keep their logs in their home terminal time, no matter where we are, the computer took over that job long ago. So I don't really need to monitor a second time zone, unless I want to. It's like the 233 was created just for me.

I debated the dot dial (My Classic Oris Worldtimer has a similar day/night indicator), but I've decided the tiny 24 hr indicator mimics the black GMT hand in a cute little brother kind of way. The black stick on both is masterful so as not to confuse the eye. Like yours, my L series has the wider power reserve track in the dial, that helped resolve some earlier issues on the dot's. I also noticed yours, just a couple years newer, has a more refined lume application on the 24 hour indicator and PR tooth. Mine look like they were dipped in a bucket of the stuff, which is fine by me.

Speaking of lume, that sandwich dial glowing at night in the cab is going to be something else.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my excitement and make my own small contribution to this great thread. I really feel like I'm headed to pick up the absolute best tool watch (in complications and cool) ever made.

One other item of note: The strap change system, which I think is fantastic, was obviously appropriated from IWC, another Richemont brand.

I've never seen it acknowledged, as they probably want to keep their many luxury brands distinct. The pics below of two extra links from my IWC UTC 3251, ca 1999, leave little doubt.


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## Travelller

galavanter said:


> ...I just wanted to share my excitement and make my own small contribution to this great thread. I really feel like I'm headed to pick up the absolute best tool watch (in complications and cool) ever made...
> ...One other item of note: The strap change system, which I think is fantastic, was obviously appropriated from IWC, another Richemont brand...


Congratulations (in advance) - I think you're gonna love this amazing reference |> Please be sure to post a wrist shot (and one of the lume against your "cockpit" panels) - I know the lume will blow you away. I'm still amazed by it and after almost six years, it hasn't failed to impress!

Re - IWC and the strap (bracelet) change system - wow! I had absolutely no idea and thought for sure it was an OP design. You learn something new every day - T4S, sir! :-!

Enjoy the trip and stay safe out there on the road ;-)

p.s. had it on earlier this week


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## galavanter

I feel like The Warriors must have felt after they bopped their way all the way back to Coney Island.

PA to Laredo, TX; dropped; picked up a Mexico relay and arrived in the Inland Empire today at noon. Even squeezed in an oil change in AZ. Then down to Venice to pick up my mail and the watch. Pedal to the metal for 3300 miles for the PAM 233 Panerai.

Off topic: Before I go on, I gotta say; we are lucky. Buying these baubles and showing off our acquisitions here, while teenage girls are forced to sit in cold, tiny huts apart from their families in Nepal, because they are having their period (Yesterday's NYTimes). Pick your own issue or headline, but we are lucky. Off topic closed.

The watch is superb. I'll never get rid of it for another watch. I _will_ sell it in a year if I come up short on the very large balloon payment at the end of my truck lease. It's only a watch. But I'd get another one when I could.

Another used one, serviced. I called Torneau and verified everything. It was sent to Richemont for a full service, which I was hoping had been the case. It got a new barrel (the seller said it had begun stopping with around a third left on the PR), new hands, pressure tested, seals, the works. 15 months left on Torneau's 24 month service warranty. I'm quite happy to learn all that.

The nick on the side of the case is so damn tiny in real life I'm embarrassed at the questions I asked of the seller. I requested a video and he sent it. He timed it at 2.7 seconds fast per day at my request. He was quite the gentleman seller. I must have been a pain in the ass, but then again, buying online is risky.

The watch is not too big, and doesn't sit too high. The domed crystal is done in such a beautifully refined way, sort of melting away into the bezel that continues along the same contour; as Travelller's great photo illustrates so well.

And everything else that everyone else has said... My wrist is 7-7 1/4. Behind the ulna bone probably just 7 inches. I wore my 47mm RXW California dial the last 5 days to prepare for the size increase from my usual 39mm IWC UTC (the one I'll be selling). The RXW is a very comfortable watch to wear with it's _soldered_ wire lugs. It sits flat on the wrist. The 233, with it's short macho lugs and Panerai crown guard, seems to wear about the same. That cushion case. I had the 47mm RXW Marina Militare and sold it because it seemed too big and it wasn't a Panerai. The 233 is just perfect, but I guess I'm now biased.

I went for the OEM thumbnail Panerai buckle and the Assolutamante brown strap everyone likes. I spent a ridiculous amount for the plastic Panerai strap changing tool. The watch seller included two toothpicks. The tool works good though because you can press down with your thumb comfortably on one, while pushing out the pin with the other. I got a Bergeon 1.6mm screwdriver for the buckles. Jeez...

I bought a PU rubber strap (not natural rubber) for $17.50 from seller magicstrap on the auction site. Get one if you need/want one. It's perfect, soft, has a floating single keeper, doesn't smell funny, and the brushed buckle is nice. It will also of course accept the OEM buckles. I didn't like the "accordian" Panerai caoutchouc rubber or the Officine Panerai (also caoutchouc) branded one. I like more subtle logos, if any. This one looks quite similar to it. I might wear it the rest of the summer, and I've never been into rubber straps. It looks and feels great on the Panerai. Some quick and dirty pics follow. Travelller I'll take a "cockpit" shot when I get back on the road.


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## Travelller

galavanter said:


> ...The watch is superb. I'll never get rid of it for another watch.... The 233 is just perfect, but I guess I'm now biased...


Congratulations on an excellent score :-! Such a great story, too - happy that you're happy and yes, it's okay to be biased ;-) Enjoy this most awesome reference and T4S both the story and pics! |> Good set of straps, too b-)

p.s. I don't know how important accuracy is to you but be sure to try out all positions at night. You will for sure find positions where the 233 loses and where it gains some seconds. When you notice it's too far ahead / behind, simply leave it in the best position to bring it back in line. It may take a few nights to do so. I have to manually adjust my 233 once every ... no idea - almost never ;-) Well, only when it was taken out of rotation and brought back in. 8 Days PR and easily-tweaked accuracy make the P.2002 the movement to beat


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## Synequano

P2002 do have its quirks...but it's one of my favorite movement....I have 2 versions of that movt and both get a respectable 247-248 hours of PR and +0 and -2 on timegrapher (dial up) for the non GMT version


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## galavanter

Travelller said:


> p.s. I don't know how important accuracy is to you but be sure to try out all positions at night. You will for sure find positions where the 233 loses and where it gains some seconds. When you notice it's too far ahead / behind, simply leave it in the best position to bring it back in line. It may take a few nights to do so. I have to manually adjust my 233 once every ... no idea - almost never ;-) Well, only when it was taken out of rotation and brought back in. 8 Days PR and easily-tweaked accuracy make the P.2002 the movement to beat





Synequano said:


> P2002 do have its quirks...but it's one of my favorite movement....I have 2 versions of that movt and both get a respectable 247-248 hours of PR and +0 and -2 on timegrapher (dial up) for the non GMT version


Yep. I'm pretty focused on the accuracy, and have used that nightly end table method with watches that have responded well to it. I've so far kept the Pam dial up every night, and have kept daily visual logs. I first want to get an idea of the general accuracy, and I am curious about the smoothness of the "power band" as it traverses all three barrels. Since a barrel was recently replaced...

Panerai 233
06/20/18 1600 Set time
06/21/18 +2 seconds total
06/22/18 +5 " "
06/23/18 +9 " "

Is crown up at night going to slow down my watch? Since my watch runs fast, I can't wait to just flip the lever, pull out the crown, and then snap the lever closed to synch the time; thanks to the second reset function! I might just do that every week or so when I wind it!

My movement knowledge is embarrassingly lacking, but I'm eager to learn more. Especially since I now have a movement created as an homage to the Angelus 8-day dating back to 1936! Even though there are many apocryphal stories about every watch brand, the history is nonetheless fascinating.

"It was build as pillar caliber and was working on the hundredth millionth part of ONE horsepower". For a guy who lives inside a machine, conservatively tuned to 455 hp, that is quite a notable piece of info. It's from the link below:

https://perezcope.com/2015/12/11/the-evolution-of-the-angelus-240/


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## Synequano

Basically,P2002 is the grandaddy of the P2003 (auto,10 days) and P2004 (8 days monopulsante) and later on it is also used as the base for the latest EOT function (I forgot the caliber name)


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## galavanter

Synequano said:


> Basically,P2002 is the grandaddy of the P2003 (auto,10 days) and P2004 (8 days monopulsante) and later on it is also used as the base for the latest EOT function (I forgot the caliber name)


Like I said, I have some more reading to do. Without knowing anything about it, I just figured the 10 day was mostly Panerai's way of acknowledging that the p.2002 had been too conversatively estimated at 8 days. Maybe not.

The monopusher and the other one have not yet piqued my interest. Too new and too expensive.

It's nice to know the p.2002 is the foundation for a few models. I like to think of it as the old Panerai workhorse, newly designed though it may be. I just love what they did with the complications (The jump hour is my thing of course). One can buy a California Dial with a jump hour hand (p.3000)!. I'll stick with my well done Japanese homage with soldered lugs and the Unitas. It was not long ago that I had never imagined an 8 day manual wind movement, let alone that they existed in 1936. I had no clue. You get the slightly thinner profile, and you get to sneer at the auto users at the same time. Maunual wind OG's we are.

Reminds me of a guy I was having a basic conversation about watches with a few years back. He said, "You know they even make watches that wind themselves now." I just responded, "For decades."


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## Travelller

galavanter said:


> Yep. I'm pretty focused on the accuracy, and have used that nightly end table method with watches that have responded well to it. I've so far kept the Pam dial up every night...
> ...Is crown up at night going to slow down my watch? Since my watch runs fast, I can't wait to just flip the lever, pull out the crown, and then snap the lever closed to synch the time; thanks to the second reset function! I might just do that every week or so when I wind it!


You should check yours in ALL positions. IF you can't be bothered, not a problem - you can go with your own "plan b" :-!

Just like any COSC-tested movement, Panerai's in-house mvmts come with their own test-result certificates (part of the paperwork). Below you'll fnd the (original) results for my unit. HH = dial up, VG = crown left, etc. OP also took the measurements when the mvmt was fully wound (0 hrs) and fully unwound (168hrs).



Travelller said:


> hrs hh hb vg vb vh vd
> 000 +8.6 +6.5 -9.9 +1.3 -3.2 +3.7
> 168 +6.1 +1.9 -1.0 -8.1 -1.6 -1.9
> ...


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## galavanter

Travelller said:


> HH = dial up, VG = crown left, etc.


Etc.??? Thankfully I found the rest of your post that you quoted:


Travelller said:


> (hh=dialup hb=dialdown, vg=crownleft, vb=crowndown, vh=crownup, vd=crownright)


 Now what does HH, HB, VG, VB, and VH denote? H-horizontal V-vertical?

I am prepared to be embarrassed.

I take it this is crown left?


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## Travelller

galavanter said:


> Etc.??? Thankfully I found the rest of your post that you quoted: Now what does HH, HB, VG, VB, and VH denote? H-horizontal V-vertical? ...I take it this is crown left?


Sorry, the "etc." didn't mean to imply that everyone should know the terms, it was intended to imply that all six possible positions of the P.2002 will register a different result. Some watches are less immune to position (i.e they run fast in all positions, or slow in all, etc) and based on my humble collection (see signature), the P.2002 appears to be the most sensitive to positioning. My newest Rolex (126600*) also seems to vary depending on position, but I haven't tested all positions.
*The "new" 3235 is pretty impressive and the average with mine has been roughly +/-1s/daily |>

Regarding the acronyms, I believe that 1. they are unique to OP and 2. I think they are in the book (I don't have access to mine right now) but using my rusted French, 1st H= Horizontal (V = Vertical), 2nd H = Haute (high/ up), B= bas (low/ down), G = Gauche (L), D = Droite (R). It's been a few years and w/o the booklet, I'm guessing here, so _grain of salt_ please! ;-)

And yeah, your photos show Crown Left. Keep in mind of course the original values recorded in your booklet may no longer be accurate given the age of the watch and the fact that it has been serviced, parts replaced, etc.


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## galavanter

I just knew you were one of those guys starts speaking French out of the blue.  I'm enjoying testing it out; still monitoring the gain per day. It has increased slightly every day. Once I wind it again at 7 or 8 days I'll probably start trying different positions. Then I'll probably just go to plan B and forget about it.

I'm back to work and tonight I realized even though I was heading north, passing through Vegas and the Virgin River Gorge in AZ, I was now in Utah Mountain Time. Just as I was about to change the jump hour hand for the first time on the road, I remembered how I had been slightly disappointed with my IWC UTC. With the IWC, turning the crown clockwise to change the hour retards it; completely counterintuitive. EDIT: Actually, setting the time works the same, so at least it is consistently backwards.

I had to get used to it and would still sometimes forget. No big deal, but my now sold Rolex Explorer II worked like one would thing it should; clockwise advances the jump hour, just as it does the time when setting the watch. Well the OP jump hour hand is no module sitting atop an ETA movement like the IWC. It worked just like a Rolex in that regard.

I gotta tell you, when you used "OP" last night in your post I thought you were talking about yourself in the third person, as in "original poster". I thought it was strange. It was late, and I'm new to Panerai. Lol.

I looked at the 24 hr pointer in the photo below and thought damn, it's not at midnight yet and it's 12:15 am. Then I realized it tracks the 12 hour gmt hand, which I had "exposed" only hours earlier. Best truckin' watch ever.


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## Travelller

galavanter said:


> ...still monitoring the gain per day. It has increased slightly every day. Once I wind it again at 7 or 8 days I'll probably start trying different positions. Then I'll probably just go to plan B and forget about it ... Best truckin' watch ever.


I think we can all agree that it's a lot better for the watch to run a little fast rather than slow; pulling the crown once a week to get it back on track is easy as pie. Winding on a weekly basis is more therapeutic than a chore - I love it 

Speaking of truckin' watches - I know zilch about 18 wheelers but that truck of yours looks awesome :-! Enjoy both and once again, T4S b-)|>


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## galavanter

Travelller said:


> . Winding on a weekly basis is more therapeutic than a chore - I love it


I've likened it to communion.


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## Travelller

It's August & the Northern hemisphere's on bloody ? which means time for a rubber strap ????


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## peterki

Hi, new summer strap here too! Sailcloth by Campagnolo with grey stitching.


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## Travelller

peterki said:


> Hi, new summer strap here too! Sailcloth by Campagnolo with grey stitching.


Looking good! T4S :-!


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## Tony A.H

hey boyz. i'm gonna follow your lead.
it's too damn HOT here as well. 95 F. it's even hotter than Florida. very unusual

haven't used this rubber yet. but i'm very ready for it.


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## Synequano

Tony,289 will look better with dark brown rubber as it'll complement the case and dial better


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## Odessa

Thank you for information about Panerai


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## Tony A.H

Synequano said:


> Tony,289 will look better with dark brown rubber as it'll complement the case and dial better


oh!!. that never crossed my mind !
yeah i bet the Brown will be the ultimate combo..
thanks for waking me up . i should acquire one.

Cheers


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## odetochronos

In my mind this is the ultimate Panerai, it's just perfect. Thank you for providing such an extensive and well written review. I'm seriously considering acquiring one now!


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## Travelller

galavanter said:


> ...I'm enjoying testing it out; still monitoring the gain per day. It has increased slightly every day. Once I wind it again at 7 or 8 days I'll probably start trying different positions. Then I'll probably just go to plan B and forget about it...


So how's your 233 doing? I certainly hope that you are still thrilled with it! Six years now and I'm still crazy about mine


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## robsmck

I just love the 233. Tried on a friend's recently and I adored it. It is high on my list for my next PAM. 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## galavanter

Travelller said:


> So how's your 233 doing? I certainly hope that you are still thrilled with it! Six years now and I'm still crazy about mine


I have worn it all day, every day since acquiring it. Watch purchases have come to a halt, and I sold off the IWC UTC and my Hermès Apple Watch.

Last night in Kentucky, although tired from driving all day, I got giddy with excitement (as I usually do) when it was time to change time zones. Flip, pop, turn, close; no problem while driving. I performed this action at 12:30 am, moving it back to 11:30pm; not an issue.

This morning, as every morning, the first job for the watch is to time my AeroPress coffee brew.

In other words, I put the PAM on before my pants.

I just realized that I am a manual wind, manual grind kinda guy. 

Thanks for asking!


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## Tony A.H

i've said this many times before: the 233 is THE BEST looking GMT Model ever made by Panerai.
purchased mine about a month ago and don't have the heart to take it off. it's such a beauty. i just can't get enough of it.


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## JoeRock71

Hi all. My first ever Panerai is inbound, and should arrive on Monday. I had tried on several watches (IWC Pilot, Big Pilot, Top Gun, Rolex Subs (ceramic and pre-ceramic), Deep Sea, Sea Dweller, and probably 20 other PAM models). My wrist is a little over 7.5", so the Rolex's feel small on me. As soon as I tried on a 233, I knew it was the one for me. This particular example was an I series with a nice, wide, and well-worn strap, and it just felt right on me. I passed on that I series, but I ended up buying one online a few days later.

Thanks to Travelller's pics and posts, I have already ordered a Toshi strap for it, a Cocoa with brushed Pre-V. It seems like I'll be buying a few more straps in the coming months as I have seen several others on here that look great as well. This is an interesting forum with lots of great pics, and I look forward to learning more about Panerai's.

Cheers,

Joe


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## Travelller

JoeRock71 said:


> Hi all. My first ever Panerai is inbound, and should arrive on Monday...I have already ordered a Toshi strap for it, a Cocoa with brushed Pre-V...


Congrats, Joe! :-! Great choice in PAMs and great choice in straps - Rich is a good guy and makes great straps 
We're looking forward to seeing a few wristshots once your 233 lands b-)


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## JoeRock71

Travelller said:


> Congrats, Joe! :-! Great choice in PAMs and great choice in straps - Rich is a good guy and makes great straps
> We're looking forward to seeing a few wristshots once your 233 lands b-)


Arrived today! Picked up a new strap at the AD as well, as the Toshi won't arrive until next month. Probably won't take this one off for a long while.


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## TheOak215

Fantastic original post! Great to see such passion in Panerai!!!

You might have convinced me to start looking for a 223...


----------



## TheOak215

Fantastic original post! Great to see such passion in Panerai!!!

You might have convinced me to start looking for a 223...


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## Travelller

JoeRock71 said:


> Arrived today! Picked up a new strap at the AD as well, as the Toshi won't arrive until next month...


Looking good, Joe :-! I'm sure Rich's strap will do your 233 justice 

_Italy - synonymous with great design b-)_


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## Tony A.H

Congratulation.. one word: *Awesome* b-) :-!
there's a beautiful Aura around this watch. the more you wear it the harder to take it off the Wrist. (great Strap/combo )..
wear it in good health..



JoeRock71 said:


> Arrived today! Picked up a new strap at the AD as well, as the Toshi won't arrive until next month. Probably won't take this one off for a long while.
> 
> View attachment 13486927


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## holybatman

Long time lurker on this thread, but can now join the 233 club! First a PAM zero, PAM 422 which are now long gone and replaced with this beauty. Thanks Traveller for feeding my obsession for the longest time. Here is is ...

Holybatman


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## holybatman

Long time lurker on this thread, but can now join the 233 club! First a PAM zero, PAM 422 which are now long gone and replaced with this beauty. Thanks Traveller for feeding my obsession for the longest time. Here is is ...

Holybatman


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## holybatman

Sorry for the inadvertent double post. Not sure how to delete.

Holybatman


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## Tony A.H

Big congrats *Mr holybatman*. looking good :-! b-) .
you are going to love it. and sure this critter will stay with you for a long long time.
wear it in good health.


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## Travelller

holybatman said:


> Long time lurker on this thread, but can now join the 233 club! First a PAM zero, PAM 422 which are now long gone and replaced with this beauty. Thanks Traveller for feeding my obsession for the longest time...


Congratulations sir :-! Although the 000 & 422 are awesome PAMs I'm sure you'll be thrilled with your 233! Enjoy & keep the wristshots coming 

p.s. I second Tony's opinions |> 


Tony A.H said:


> Big congrats *Mr holybatman*. looking good :-! b-) .
> you are going to love it. and sure this critter will stay with you for a long long time.
> wear it in good health.


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## Synequano

Been a while since I've seen 233 on its original tunnel leather strap as the newer ones no longer come with it....


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## holybatman

More wrist shots as requested! Now with new shoes - Dangerous 9 Teju Lizard!


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## Travelller

holybatman said:


> More wrist shots as requested! Now with new shoes - Dangerous 9 Teju Lizard!


Looking good :-! I love John's work - have three of his custom-tailored straps |>


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## Incompass

Batman what a gorgeous strap really makes the watch. I really love the 233 and it’s ability to dress up big time and go casual when required. I have a PAM 194 that’s headed home for repair but it can only dress down. Hope everyone has a great weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## holybatman

Love the D9 straps. Unfortunately can't use my 46mm ammo with the 233 : (


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## robsmck

46mm is a belt, not a strap 


holybatman said:


> Love the D9 straps. Unfortunately can't use my 46mm ammo with the 233 : (


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## LB Carl

Congrats. The 233 is by far my favorite watch in my collection. Wear it in good health!


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## holybatman

robsmck said:


> 46mm is a belt, not a strap
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


LOL! Oops ... should have read 26mm


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## holybatman

Put on some new shoes! PAM 233 on Toshi ...


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## Travelller

holybatman said:


> Put on some new shoes! PAM 233 on Toshi ...


Excellent combo :-! Rich is another one of my favorites - solid quality, good looking & well-priced b-)


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## islands62

I didn't know the AM/PM versions, or at least some of them, had blue lume. Nice shot!


----------



## Travelller

islands62 said:


> ...some of them, had blue lume...


All 233 (and most PAMs*) have a green Lume. His Smartphone wasn't able to get the correct white-balance for that particular shot.
_*The Panerai "LAB ID" being the only one I know of that has blue lume..._


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## JoeRock71

My new Toshi cocoa strap arrived today. Had it on the OEM rubber for a days before today and realized I didn't mind a rubber strap as much as I had thought I would, but I think I'll be ordering another Toshi soon.


----------



## Travelller

JoeRock71 said:


> My new Toshi cocoa strap arrived today. Had it on the OEM rubber for a days before today and realized I didn't mind a rubber strap as much as I had thought I would, but I think I'll be ordering another Toshi soon...


Awesome choice :-!
I love cocoa!!! Yep, Rich makes high-quality, no-nonsense, well-priced straps and I have three of his for the 233 and another three for my 217 |>
Looking forward to seeing your next combo ;-) |>


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## TLUX

Thank you for the useful info.


----------



## holybatman

Hey Traveller! I am contemplating upgrading to a 217. Fancy posting some more enabling pics ; )

Cheers

Holybatman


----------



## Travelller

holybatman said:


> Long time lurker on this thread, but can now join the 233 club...





holybatman said:


> ...I am contemplating upgrading to a 217. Fancy posting some more enabling pics ; )


Wow, three months and you're looking to "upgrade" already :think: I hope what you really mean is "in addition to" your awesome 233 b-) 
In any event, the 217 is not an "upgrade", rather an entirely different PAM with more of a shout-out to Panerai's military past _(whereas the 233 is OP's entrance into contemporary horology)._

As for my other awesome PAM - the 217...  I have a few tasty pics for you here. More can be found elsewhere _(Google "...maybe beyond even WIS-logic...")_


----------



## holybatman

Cheers Travelller! Excellent feedback as always ; )


----------



## Synequano

Holybatman,if you're looking to "upgrade" the 233 to destro model,you can also look at 368 as it has P2002 ticking inside the 47mm 1950 case (in titanium)










Anyway travelller might find this one interesting,when I went to church on Christmas eve,I saw someone wearing a 47mm fiddy in white metal,naturally I thought it's a 127,until I saw the dial is darker shade of brown and there's no 1950 on the dial,instead there's a (probably 8 giorni) circle near the 3'o clock,wow!!!


----------



## Travelller

Synequano said:


> ...Anyway travelller might find this one interesting,when I went to church on Christmas eve,I saw someone wearing a 47mm fiddy in white metal,naturally I thought it's a 127,until I saw the dial is darker shade of brown and there's no 1950 on the dial,instead there's a (probably 8 giorni) circle near the 3'o clock,wow!!!


203 F.T.W. b-) I saw one at this year's P-Day in HK - almost as delicious as my Holy-PAM-Grail, the 267... b-)

~~~

IG has a tradition of posting your top nine, most-liked posts of the year.

I'm pleased to say that the 233 was among the list :-!









I also decided to review my posts and come up _with my own Top9 _of 2018 too. Of course, the 233's included ;-)









https://www.instagram.com/trav11er/


----------



## JoeRock71

New shoes for the 233, a Toshi in Petrol:


----------



## peterki

New dark brown croco.


----------



## Tony A.H

never thought i would wear it on Rubber.
looks quite nice. it squally fits much better than the Gator.

liking is a lot now. but maybe a Brown Rubber would even make a much better combo.


----------



## Synequano

Brown rubber will fit your 289 better Tony,I do wear my tobacco dial models on brown rubber


----------



## LB Carl

Tony A.H said:


> never thought i would wear it on Rubber.
> looks quite nice. it squally fits much better than the Gator.
> 
> liking is a lot now. but maybe a Brown Rubber would even make a much better combo.


I don't remember seeing this one before....beautiful watch, Tony!


----------



## Tony A.H

LB Carl said:


> I don't remember seeing this one before....beautiful watch, Tony!


thanks . the 289 is the blingy version of 233. same dial and function.


----------



## JoeRock71

Here's a Toshi in Emerald green. I think I'll slow down on the strap purchases for now.


----------



## damnvicious

I have a question to PAM 233 owners. I just recently purchased a PAM 233 dot dial myself from a reputable seller.

When I got delivery, it had a "Service Receipt" from Panerai service center for $1,000 stating full service ($730), replacement of crystal ($270), replacement of dial, replacement of hand set, replacement of hands, replacement of barrels (all complimentary). 

I was told that this was to done during service to fix the dot dial Power Reserve issue. Just wanted to confirm and get other owners' thoughts. Thanks!


----------



## Travelller

damnvicious said:


> ...stating full service ($730), replacement of crystal ($270), replacement of dial, replacement of hand set, replacement of hands, replacement of barrels (all complimentary) ... I was told that this was to done during service to fix the dot dial Power Reserve issue...


1st off, congrats on becoming a 233 dot- b-) -dial owner! :-!

The full service would include all but the crystal however dials & hands are only replaced when absolutely necessary. Good examples of hand-set replacements are for older Tritium watches where the lume is cracked and/or gone. Thus the *reason for the dial change in your case is the PR indicator issue* ("fang" would get stuck with the original 1st-gen dials because the slit for the PR indicator was too thin in respect to the lateral dial-alignment tolerances.

Why they changed the hands is beyond me - unless it's standard-operating-procedure for _in-house_ OP movements (which I find hard to believe) :think: They certainly did not replace the hands of my 217 (Unitas-ETA 6497 mvmt) during its full-servicing at the regional Richemont service center.

The only reason I could think of replacing the crystal is because of a major crack that would endanger the water-resistance. I guess you would have mentioned this and as you did not, I am stumped :think: If I were you, I would try to get the Service-Center to clarify the reason for the crystal replacement - I personally would love to know what was behind that decision...!

~~~~~~~~

_Today's wear - the 233!_


----------



## damnvicious

Travelller said:


> 1st off, congrats on becoming a 233 dot- b-) -dial owner! :-!
> 
> The full service would include all but the crystal however dials & hands are only replaced when absolutely necessary. Good examples of hand-set replacements are for older Tritium watches where the lume is cracked and/or gone. Thus the *reason for the dial change in your case is the PR indicator issue* ("fang" would get stuck with the original 1st-gen dials because the slit for the PR indicator was too thin in respect to the lateral dial-alignment tolerances.
> 
> Why they changed the hands is beyond me - unless it's standard-operating-procedure for _in-house_ OP movements (which I find hard to believe) :think: They certainly did not replace the hands of my 217 (Unitas-ETA 6497 mvmt) during its full-servicing at the regional Richemont service center.
> 
> The only reason I could think of replacing the crystal is because of a major crack that would endanger the water-resistance. I guess you would have mentioned this and as you did not, I am stumped :think: If I were you, I would try to get the Service-Center to clarify the reason for the crystal replacement - I personally would love to know what was behind that decision...!
> 
> ~~~~~~~~
> 
> _Today's wear - the 233!_


Thanks for the response. I did call the Panerai Service Center today and they told me that no other information / notes was available when they pulled up the record. The person I talked to said that it was likely that the person sent the watch for servicing and a crystal replacement to improve the condition of the watch in advance of selling it.

I made a separate thread with pic of the watch and I personally do not see anything wrong. I hope that since any repairs (if ever) were done at a Panerai Service Center (and not just a random spot), it should be good, have no problems, and serve as almost like a brand new watch. On the bright side, service is done and if it had the PR fang issue, I won't have to deal with it.

Anything I should be wary about with this? Thanks!!


----------



## damnvicious

Travelller said:


> 1st off, congrats on becoming a 233 dot- b-) -dial owner! :-!
> 
> The full service would include all but the crystal however dials & hands are only replaced when absolutely necessary. Good examples of hand-set replacements are for older Tritium watches where the lume is cracked and/or gone. Thus the *reason for the dial change in your case is the PR indicator issue* ("fang" would get stuck with the original 1st-gen dials because the slit for the PR indicator was too thin in respect to the lateral dial-alignment tolerances.
> 
> Why they changed the hands is beyond me - unless it's standard-operating-procedure for _in-house_ OP movements (which I find hard to believe) :think: They certainly did not replace the hands of my 217 (Unitas-ETA 6497 mvmt) during its full-servicing at the regional Richemont service center.
> 
> The only reason I could think of replacing the crystal is because of a major crack that would endanger the water-resistance. I guess you would have mentioned this and as you did not, I am stumped :think: If I were you, I would try to get the Service-Center to clarify the reason for the crystal replacement - I personally would love to know what was behind that decision...!
> 
> ~~~~~~~~
> 
> _Today's wear - the 233!_


Thanks for the response. I did call the Panerai Service Center today and they told me that no other information / notes was available when they pulled up the record. The person I talked to said that it was likely that the person sent the watch for servicing and a crystal replacement to improve the condition of the watch in advance of selling it.

I made a separate thread with pic of the watch and I personally do not see anything wrong. I hope that since any repairs (if ever) were done at a Panerai Service Center (and not just a random spot), it should be good, have no problems, and serve as almost like a brand new watch. On the bright side, service is done and if it had the PR fang issue, I won't have to deal with it.

Anything I should be wary about with this? Thanks!!


----------



## Travelller

damnvicious said:


> Anything I should be wary about with this? Thanks!!


Nope, you should be GTG.


----------



## peterki

Travelller said:


> 1st off, congrats on becoming a 233 dot- b-) -dial owner! :-!
> 
> The full service would include all but the crystal however dials & hands are only replaced when absolutely necessary. Good examples of hand-set replacements are for older Tritium watches where the lume is cracked and/or gone. Thus the *reason for the dial change in your case is the PR indicator issue* ("fang" would get stuck with the original 1st-gen dials because the slit for the PR indicator was too thin in respect to the lateral dial-alignment tolerances.
> 
> Why they changed the hands is beyond me - unless it's standard-operating-procedure for _in-house_ OP movements (which I find hard to believe) :think: They certainly did not replace the hands of my 217 (Unitas-ETA 6497 mvmt) during its full-servicing at the regional Richemont service center.
> 
> The only reason I could think of replacing the crystal is because of a major crack that would endanger the water-resistance. I guess you would have mentioned this and as you did not, I am stumped :think: If I were you, I would try to get the Service-Center to clarify the reason for the crystal replacement - I personally would love to know what was behind that decision...!
> 
> ~~~~~~~~
> 
> _Today's wear - the 233!_


Sometimes, the hands are replaced because of corrosion (I remember this was a problem of the first generation of Damasko DK101). If this was the case here, there is a logic behind changing the crystal as well, as there could be a possibility that it was not watertight enough. Anyway, having all this changed and serviced by authorized service, I would be rather happy, because you should not experience any troubles with the watch for a long time. My 233 with a dot dial is from 2008 and it has not been serviced yet. Which, on one hand, is good, because it runs accurately and trouble free, on the other hand, I am worried when it comes and I will have to send it for full service which can amount up to 1000 euros.


----------



## damnvicious

peterki said:


> Sometimes, the hands are replaced because of corrosion (I remember this was a problem of the first generation of Damasko DK101). If this was the case here, there is a logic behind changing the crystal as well, as there could be a possibility that it was not watertight enough. Anyway, having all this changed and serviced by authorized service, I would be rather happy, because you should not experience any troubles with the watch for a long time. My 233 with a dot dial is from 2008 and it has not been serviced yet. Which, on one hand, is good, because it runs accurately and trouble free, on the other hand, I am worried when it comes and I will have to send it for full service which can amount up to 1000 euros.


Thanks for all the replies. Now I feel much better about the purchase. Now I have to start looking for nice straps for my 233! Taking a liking to Gunny Straps and Toshi Straps? Are there any promo codes that you guys know?


----------



## damnvicious

peterki said:


> Sometimes, the hands are replaced because of corrosion (I remember this was a problem of the first generation of Damasko DK101). If this was the case here, there is a logic behind changing the crystal as well, as there could be a possibility that it was not watertight enough. Anyway, having all this changed and serviced by authorized service, I would be rather happy, because you should not experience any troubles with the watch for a long time. My 233 with a dot dial is from 2008 and it has not been serviced yet. Which, on one hand, is good, because it runs accurately and trouble free, on the other hand, I am worried when it comes and I will have to send it for full service which can amount up to 1000 euros.


Thanks for all the replies. Now I feel much better about the purchase. Now I have to start looking for nice straps for my 233! Taking a liking to Gunny Straps and Toshi Straps? Are there any promo codes that you guys know?


----------



## michelesanctis

I was drooling over 233, 270 and 533 for quite some time now. Decided to go for 233 for now and then add 533 later on as it's different enough to my eyes.
UPS has just brought me this beauty. I know it is only T Series rather than old dot dial, but really happy


----------



## Travelller

michelesanctis said:


> ... Decided to go for 233 for now ... UPS has just brought me this beauty. I know it is only T Series rather than old dot dial, but really happy...


Congrats!!! Looking good on you :-! It goes without saying I think it was the best choice... ;-)  Enjoy and keep the wristshots comin' |>


----------



## peterki

michelesanctis said:


> I was drooling over 233, 270 and 533 for quite some time now. Decided to go for 233 for now and then add 533 later on as it's different enough to my eyes.
> UPS has just brought me this beauty. I know it is only T Series rather than old dot dial, but really happy
> View attachment 13863233


Congrats, great watch!  Can you post more pics of the strap? Is it nubuck leather? Is it the strap they sell with the new watch now? Because the old dot dial series came originally with a black italo calf. Enjoy!


----------



## michelesanctis

peterki said:


> Congrats, great watch!  Can you post more pics of the strap? Is it nubuck leather? Is it the strap they sell with the new watch now? Because the old dot dial series came originally with a black italo calf. Enjoy!


It came on black gator strap, but I have got this asso on a well known auction site and paid £21 shipped from HK. The brand is iStrap, but if you look it up by that name, it will be more expensive. Just look for Panerai 24mm asso and it shows cheaper. It's a very good quality for the money and quite comfortable. The colour is a bit more saturated in real life.


----------



## Aussie Paul

Congrats. Magic


----------



## Tony A.H

congratulations on your 233. the Best Panerai GMT model IMO.
and lovely Assolutamente to boot (it shows that you can still enjoy some great looking straps for little money). but also the Black Caff and Rubber look super cool on this watch.
wear it in good health.


----------



## damnvicious

Ted Su Offset strap arrived in the mail


----------



## peterki

could not resist to buy one asso myself


----------



## drtii

Thanks Travelller this is a great thread. Really cool to see all of the 233's with different straps, this is by far my favorite PAM. I have a question, is everyone buying AD (I don't have one locally) or is there a reputable seller that people are using on C24 or Watchrecon? I'm curious because it seems prices are all over the spectrum and if there are a bunch of fakes out there it makes it even more difficult. 

Any advice on average price paid + reputable sellers would be helpful.


----------



## galavanter

drtii said:


> I'm curious because it seems prices are all over the spectrum and if there are a bunch of fakes out there it makes it even more difficult.


Buyer beware, yes always. Fake Panerai yes, but a fake 233 I've never seen. Insist on short video of hour hand GMT complication in action.

I've never seen a fake duplicate this complication in any brand.


----------



## Travelller

drtii said:


> ... is everyone buying AD (I don't have one locally) or is there a reputable seller that people are using on C24 or Watchrecon? I'm curious because it seems prices are all over the spectrum and if there are a bunch of fakes out there it makes it even more difficult...


As Galavanter noted, _Caveat Emptor_. I'll also add to that the old saying of_ "buy the seller." _

It would be extremely difficult to copy the movement - both in function (as Galavanter also pointed out) but even the movement (as seen through the caseback). The seller should send you detailed and clear photos of all sides of the watch, etc. and you can compare them to mine. But buying the seller is key - they have to have a good rep or references that you can trust. You can search C24 for one or even the F.S. section of forums you frequent. Should there be a grey dealer in a nearby city (or one you plan to visit in the near-future) you might consider a face2face, this way you will see what you're paying for in the flesh. I've never purchased a watch online and I plan on avoiding it if at all possible*.

Best of luck - take your time as I'm sure it will have been worthwhile once the right one lands on your wrist :-!

_*There's a Citizen (...yes, a Citizen) that is JDM-only (Japanese Domestic Market) and I can either fly to Japan or take a leap of faith and order it online... But in any event, it's half the price of a used 233 so it's a calculated risk... _


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## wallypop

very nice


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## Travelller

wallypop said:


> very nice


Today's choice! :-!


----------



## peterki

Travelller said:


> Today's choice! :-!


What is this strap?


----------



## Travelller

peterki said:


> What is this strap?


Toshi's Cocoa |>


----------



## peterki

Travelller said:


> Toshi's Cocoa |>


It is a beauty!


----------



## michelesanctis

As a proud owner of 233 and to calm everyone who is planning to buy. This model is 100% safe and stress free to buy second hand (not considering it could be a stolen piece).
Attached is a photo of the only fake effort in the past. Not made any more and recognisable as fake from a mile. This is not 312, 320 or 441 that are barely any different to genuine.


----------



## michelesanctis

Double post


----------



## peterki

I have found on the internet one 233 supposedly of L series with a dot dial.
So far I thought only I to K series were made with a dot dial:

I series from 2006 - total 1500 pcs
J series feom 2007 - total 1000 pcs
K series from 2008 - total 2000 pcs

Now many L series from 2009 233s have am/pm indicator which is also in all later series'. Have you ever come across another L series with a dot dial?


----------



## galavanter

peterki said:


> I have found on the internet one 233 supposedly of L series with a dot dial.
> So far I thought only I to K series were made with a dot dial:
> 
> I series from 2006 - total 1500 pcs
> J series feom 2007 - total 1000 pcs
> K series from 2008 - total 2000 pcs
> 
> Now many L series from 2009 233s have am/pm indicator which is also in all later series'. Have you ever come across another L series with a dot dial?


I was under the same impression when I purchased my L series am/pm, 04xx/1000. But probably because I have an "L", I do recall reading a single post somewhere of someone saying that they had a dot dial L series, and that the change occurred during the L production run. Not much help I know...


----------



## peterki

galavanter said:


> I was under the same impression when I purchased my L series am/pm, 04xx/1000. But probably because I have an "L", I do recall reading a single post somewhere of someone saying that they had a dot dial L series, and that the change occurred during the L production run. Not much help I know...


That actually helped. I was trying to find out how many 233s with a dot dial were produced. If the change occured withing the L series, there might be only few hundreds max. with a dot dial from this series. Thanks!


----------



## peterki

So let's say 5000 pieces in total ever produced.


----------



## Travelller

Seven years & counting... :-!


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## Tony A.H

Travelller said:


> Seven years & counting... :-!


 the nicest looking GMT.
wear it in the best of health.


----------



## Doume83

Hello,

This is my very first post on this forum.
Not that I am new at Panerai but maybe was to shy to talk about me...

So here I am, French guy (don't know if we are many...) and currently having PAM 176 + 590 + 233 dot dial.

I wanted to thank all of you as I first dreamt of this 233 (just received it this morning) while reading your comments, and watching your great pictures .

So I wanted to join this forum with this very first post to thank you all.










Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## Travelller

Doume83 said:


> ... This is my very first post on this forum... I wanted to thank all of you as I first dreamt of this 233 (just received it this morning) while reading your comments, and watching your great pictures...


First off, welcome to the forum  A lot of great members here - I'm sure you'll agree :-!
Secondly, congrats on your new2you 233 Dot-dial - the best version for sure of a great, great "flagship" PAM  |>
Thirdly, we're looking forward to further contributions from you - wristshots are a great start ;-)
Last but not least, thank you for the compliments - the members here are very fond of their PAMs and happy to share the passion :-!


----------



## holybatman

Missed my old AM/PM PAM233 after trading it for another watch. Had to get another, this time with the dot dial. First watch I ever had to repurchase! Congrats on your new watch : )


----------



## Doume83

Thank you.
After 2 days I am totally convinced by this 233.
This 44mm 1950 seems much smaller on the wrist than any other bettarini case.


----------



## JoeRock71

Congrats on a great choice. Best looking PAM (IMHO, of course).


----------



## Tony A.H

Congratulations *Doume83 *and *holybatman* on your acquisitions. 233 is ALWAYS a great choice/addition.


----------



## Tony A.H

Doume83 said:


> This 44mm 1950 seems much smaller on the wrist than any other bettarini case.


i'm surprised you're saying that.
it's usually the other way around (in my eyes. but i may be wrong :think. i find the 1950 Beefier/Thicker and more square-ish than the Bettarini Case.


----------



## Doume83

Hi Tony,

I understand your point.
This is a personal feeling only looking and comparing my 3 Panerai.
I tried to make some pictures with my PAM00590 (new Bettarini case slightly smaller), my PAM00176 titanium (original Bettarini case) and my new PAM00233 (1950).
None of those watches are automatics, then case would have been thicker.
Rounded shape of 233 makes it for me compared to the 176, case is made of angles only 
Love them all by the way.


----------



## ASW1

The dial under flattish crystal on the Bettarini cases IMO make them appear larger than the domed 1950s. The post above does do a pretty good job of illustrating this.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


----------



## Tony A.H

come to think of it now. yeah i guess the Dome crystal *especially the distorted one* on the 1950 makes the dial appear smaller. however the case looks/feels larger.
i'm gonna compare mine with my Buddy's 104 next time.


----------



## Travelller

Doume83 said:


> ...I tried to make some pictures with my PAM00590 (new Bettarini case slightly smaller), my PAM00176 titanium (original Bettarini case) and my new PAM00233 (1950)... Rounded shape of 233 makes it for me compared to the 176, case is made of angles only...


Nice comparison & also having both, I agree with you.
I also agree (with ASW1 above) that the Bettarini's flat crystal shows more of the dial "simultaneously" but this is not as important to me as the sheer vintage look that I love from the 1950 domed crystals... ;-)|>


----------



## Megalobyte

Finally got one.  A V series. Love it. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ASW1

Many congratulations. Looks stunning. Great photos.

Enjoy


----------



## Tony A.H

Congratulations . enjoy the heck out of it in good health .


----------



## bigclive2011

Good choice of model!!

I love that dome, fantastic!!

I have been a small trigger pull distance away a few times but I have far too many already.


----------



## Travelller

Megalobyte said:


> Finally got one.  A V series. Love it...


Woohoo!!! :-! welcome to the club - great to hear AND see it - great shots, T4S and enjoy that beauty ;-)|>


----------



## Megalobyte

Thx guys. And I'm very pleasantly surprised with the accuracy. I figured on an 8-10 day movement I'd be lucky to be within 10. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## peterki

Finally got these back after 5 months at the service center. As good as new!


----------



## Tony A.H

peterki said:


> Finally got these back after 5 months at the service center. As good as new!


the long wait makes you love it even more .
looks great... enjoy it in good health.


----------



## DOUBLE 0 SEVEN

Wonderful photos, wonderful thread..


----------



## whitingwatches

I really like this write up. Lots of really good info packed in here, and beautiful photos too.


----------



## Travelller

DOUBLE 0 SEVEN said:


> Wonderful photos, wonderful thread..





whitingwatches said:


> I really like this write up. Lots of really good info packed in here, and beautiful photos too.


Many thanks, gents! 🙏😊

I still am very happy (& grateful!) with my decision to get the 233 all those years ago and of course, it is not only still in my collection, but also still one of very few watches I own eligible for the_ "stranded on a desert Island with only one watch"_ scenario... 😁🍻

_...recently posted on my IG account "trav11er"_


----------



## Gregc

Amazing thread! Thanks for all the great info and photos!


----------



## DOUBLE 0 SEVEN

Beauty with antic brown gator..


----------



## wappinghigh

Guys the 8 day power reserve indicator (that is supposed to fail on earlier the Dot I series) is this something that fails early? (like just out of the shop) ....or after lots of use? Also what's the fix? Does it involve a whole movement replacement (expensive) or is it something easy to sort out? Thanks!


----------



## Travelller

wappinghigh said:


> Guys the 8 day power reserve indicator (that is supposed to fail on earlier the Dot I series) is this something that fails early? (like just out of the shop) ....or after lots of use? Also what's the fix?


You're a lucky guy if you can manage to snag a 233I that's LNIB... but in any event, the dial would need to be replaced. The only change to this "service" dial is a slightly larger slot to allow for more "relaxed" tolerances of the "fang's lateral movement.

The dial itself may not be that expensive _(heck, it may even be replaced for free as this is a manufacturing issue)_ but it will need to be sent to CH as I don't think the regional service centers will deal with in-house movements... .

Last but not least, I'm not sure we can assume the issue was only limited to the "I" series nor should we assume they all suffer from the issue.


----------



## wappinghigh

^Dude thanks for that -(heck that could be "fixed" with a small jewellers file!).. it was the confidence I needed to pull the trigger (It was the only thing holding me back)...I just secured and bought one !!! And I am _stoked_!!!!!!


----------



## sager

DOUBLE 0 SEVEN said:


> Beauty with antic brown gator..


Nice!!! What strap is this if I may ask?


----------



## Travelller

wappinghigh said:


> ...I just secured and bought one !!! And I am _stoked_!!!!!!


Congrats - it's THE version to have imho 👏
I've my fingers crossed for you that there will be no issues with yours 🍀 - please keep us posted and of course, looking forward to a wirstshot or three... 🍻


----------



## Tony A.H

you are an inspiration Mr Travelller ?



not as nice as yours. 
i should get a better Camera Phone.


----------



## Tony A.H

wappinghigh said:


> Guys the 8 day power reserve indicator (that is supposed to fail on earlier the Dot I series) is this something that fails early? (like just out of the shop) ....or after lots of use? Also what's the fix? Does it involve a whole movement replacement (expensive) or is it something easy to sort out? Thanks!


i read this on Paneristi years ago . this issue happened with their first Batch. but Panerai quickly realized the problem and worked out the glitches.
if i remember correctly. regardless of how old the batch is. they will fix it at no charge.


----------



## Travelller

Tony A.H said:


> ...not as nice as yours...


🙏- let's agree to disagree...😁 Looking good, my friend


----------



## wappinghigh

44mm (classic size for a Panerai)
1950's case with domed sapphire (only manual 1950's cased Panerai you can get in 44mm)
(I just can't wear anything larger... my apologies ...but I can't.. they look silly)
_Proper_ sandwich dial (...not a "half" sandwich)
Reg. T.M visible on crown guard
Ist year PAM introduced "roller" bearing into crown guard mechanism
Ist PAM in house movement
Manual 8 days
"Acceptable" (just 🤣) 100M water resistance
Ingenious way of hiding GMT to maintain classic look
Designed in the cultural heartland of the Renaissance.
Dot dial
Ist "I" series 233
One of most sought after complication PAMS by the Paneristi
(...This will at least have respect!)
Full set including all 3 original boxes and straps
Unpolished
Steel sports under 10K!
(And it's _not_ a Rolex)
Can it get any better?
What's there_ not _to like?!!!
_One PAM to rule them all !_
One_ watch _to rule them all !!
Incoming...
I'm excited!


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## DOUBLE 0 SEVEN

sager said:


> Nice!!! What strap is this if I may ask?


It is the antic brown oem alligator strap..


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## wappinghigh

This Panerai wears so well because it's lug to lug is only 49mm...(even though it's a 44mm case) I can confirm this to be _a fact_...


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## Tony A.H

wappinghigh said:


> This Panerai wears so well because it's lug to lug is only 49mm...(even though it's a 44mm case) I can confirm this to be _a fact_...


just measured mine. it's 53mm.


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## espresso&watches

Tony A.H said:


> just measured mine. it's 53mm.


49mm didn't sound right....


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## wappinghigh

Well sure I didn't use calipers but I used a metal measure tape flipping the watch over and measured the distance that counts ie spring bar too spring bar but I'm not going to argue it isn't a big watch - but that cushion case like the Seiko turtles lifts the watch up a bit and makes it easier to wear a big watch on a 6 3/4 wrist. So who's complaining?!!


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## wappinghigh

LOL I know it is big, but that's the whole point right guys? I mean if women can wear 39mm Explorers, or 40mm subs on 6 inch wrists (or under) that look big, then I can wear a 44mm PAM luminor! This isn't my only watch - I have got a few more ranging in size 37-42mm and a 44mm Seiko King Turtle. I am not going to try wear this Pam under a suit 🤣 I'll pick this up and give it a manual wind then wear this Pam when I want a f em all watch and when I go OS (if we could _only_ go OS!) Come to think of it I'll wear this PAm all to myself and dream I'm OS!


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## wappinghigh

I don't care what the declared "official" lug to lug is ...I call this the miracle Pam.. it wears under 50mm lug to lug... if you don't believe me then shoot me a PM prove you aren't a fraudster (and want to clone the watch) and I'll shoot you some pics to prove it. For those who have the model I suggest you take out your tapes and prove it for yourselves!


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## wappinghigh

^ I have remeasured the distance "that matters" between the mid-point of the springbars ..(because with this case the lugs curve down and are strap attached so the straps drop vertically) and I'm telling ya'll it's under 50mm unless my metal measuring tape is wrong! That;'s what makes this 44mm pam a miracle for wrists under 7 inches! (mine is exactly 50mm across) The "effective" lug to lug (spring bar to spring bar) on this model is around 48-49 mm (a touch over the Seiko King Turtles around 46mm). Yes the lugs on the pam stick out a touch more, but what matters is you can wear it on a strap and if you get a subtle enough and thin enough strap get that strap to drop straight down and hug your wrist. So if you can wear a Seiko King turtle you can wear this Pam...(see images below!) The pam 233 really is the miracle 44mm luminor for a guy with "average" (to smallish... hahaha...I'll call em average) wrists IMO!


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## wappinghigh




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## Travelller

There were questions asked in another thread regarding _the paperwork that should accompany the 233_. First off, let me be clear that all watch brands make changes to their watches, the watch-boxes, the paperwork, etc. without notice and from one production-year to the next. A perfect example for PAMs is the engraving style of "millesimation" (n/ m) number. I noted a drastic change in the way OP engraved this info on the caseback from F to G to H... .

Having said that; my 2011 N 233 came "triple-boxed"* and with two booklets (and no guarantee "card"). The first booklet's the _User Guide_ and the second booklet is the _Guarantee_. For in-house movements, OP performs their own tests and therefore you will not find a classic COSC Certificate**
*only because I insisted - the AD wanted to toss the outer box whic is standard operating procedure... . **I cannot confirm that OP began their in-house tests from day-one but it is a safe assumption.

~~~

_Note that in the following images, all "sensitive" ID numbers have been partially masked with zeros.
Outerbox..._


















_Guarantee booklet_


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## wappinghigh




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## scubaboy60

Just came across this stream, very well thought out and researched. My option was the Luminor model 112. Uncluttered sandwich dial and a classic .


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## Travelller

wappinghigh said:


> ...


I know I've been on [the original] Pan-Am flights enough times as a kid / teen  and while BOAC rings a bell, I can't be 100% sure...  I only know I've been through LHR (with transfers to Gatwick back in the day 🙄) too many times... 😅 ** Cool poster! ** 


scubaboy60 said:


> Just came across this stream, very well thought out and researched. My option was the Luminor model 112. Uncluttered sandwich dial and a classic.


Thx 🙏😊 - The 112 is an excellent reference, congrats! I have the 111G - I gotta have some movement on my dial... 😅😉🍻


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## peterki

On a new Teju Lizzard Dangerous9 strap.


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