# Quality Control at Fortis



## djharte (Nov 23, 2007)

While examining my B-42 Cosmonaut yesterday I noticed that the luminous triangle at 12 o'clock has either a very small black mark on one side towards the top of the triangle or it is missing a little lume. The only reason I hadn't noticed up until now was because it is not really visible when the second (chrono) hand is at its normal 12 o'clock position. 

I would imagine that every watch that leaves Fortis must be checked by someone with a magnifying glass to look out for such defects so my only conclusion can be that they are quite happy to ship watches with minor defects. In addition the watch has already been back twice to correct misaligned sub dial hands (yes, twice) so I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have noticed it on these occasions.

All in all I love the watch but am tired of going through this process of do I/don't I return it, knowing that the guy in the AD shop will look at me as if I am crazy and should be happy living with such imperfection.

Any advice and/or comments as always are welcome.

Thanks for listening,

David


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

ah, sounds like there is someone out there as anal-neurotic as me. ;-)
hey David, I am just now trying to come to terms with my idosyncracies and am
learning that NOTHING is perfect no matter how much I want it to be.
I would hope that when spending lots of money you'd think that the item you were
getting would be free of imperfections but as it turns out it seems that no matter
what I buy, when viewing with my eagle's eye type of vision I find even the tinyest
flaw, issues, speck, lint or something wrong with whatever it is.
It actually drives me absolutely crazy and has caused me to let go of a lot of
different watches that I have loved over the years.
Now, looking back, I am displeased with my actions.
Only just recently have I realized that I must accept that nothing will ever be 'perfect' at least not in my eyes and that I will have to live with what I have.
It makes for much less anxiety. 
In fact, even in a new Breitling that I have, I have noticed a few minor flaws.
At first it bothered me then I talked myself into just accepting it and wearing it and
now I love it, maybe moreso than my other watches.
It doesn't even bother me anymore.
On the other hand, its a mechanical flaw then I'd surely send it back immediately.
Hope my so-called words of wisdom will help.
all the best,


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## djharte (Nov 23, 2007)

Steve,

I completly understand where you are coming from, you know I have a classic car (BMW 635csi) which has driven me nuts over the years trying to get it completly "perfect", and yes it is a fruitless pursuit.

However, in this case the watch is only a year old and is still under warranty so I will be sending it back next week. I think a small piece of the lume may have actually just broken off as I have noticed that there is a relatively large spec of something at 2 o'clock. 

I really hope my experience is an isolated one, there are one or two other Fortis watches which I would consider buying but would be quite wary of purchasing them now.

Anyhow, thanks for your two cents, it is nice to know that someone understands 

Cheers,
David


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## sknight (Dec 16, 2007)

This is a watch, an item that costs as much as some used cars on the market. If they can't make it right for the prices they demand, you take it back.


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## SJACKAL (Mar 2, 2006)

I am like Steve too.

If I look hard enough, I will find imperfections. So I had learned not to look too hard, and I have been happier man. Won't accept obvious flaws however. Misalignment of the chrono hands is unacceptable to me, but I guess I can live with the lume thingy at 12.


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## GeoffD (Dec 9, 2006)

It's hard to judge from a description. One persons "very small" could be considered "too big to ignore" by some or "what, where?" by others. I appreciate that the triangle you're talking about is quite small itself, so any chance you can post a picture that shows it?

After reading your watches history, I wonder whether it's picked up a mark during the process of removal/refitting? 

At the end of the day, only you know how much it bothers you and whether it's worth the hassle of sending back again.


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## hooked (Dec 29, 2007)

I am so anal it is sad! I have found lint under the dial of Breitling, Omega and rolex. I carried a GMT II to a watchmaker one time to have him get the lint out and he couldn't believe I saw it. He said I should be a watchmaker. I wish I was!

Lately I have quit examining my watches so much. I can deal with marks on the case, but not on the crystal. I love to look at the dial of my watches. I look at them all the time and it makes me smile! I am little obsessed with watches.

Got a new Fortis B-42 Fliegler Day date (newest model) coming in tomorrow and can't wait!


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## SJACKAL (Mar 2, 2006)

If you look hard enough, you will surely find things. When you can't, you resort to a 10X loupe, and when you still can't find stuff after examining it for hours for the 33rd time, you bought one of those expensive hand held microscopes and try again. :-d Then you finally found some dust, or some unevenness in the lume application or dial print, etc. And you started to feel depressed and dissatisfied with the level of quality and finish. o|o|o|

This is spending time, money and effort to buy pain and self suffering. Thus, I learned not to do this and be a happy man. :-d


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## obie (Feb 9, 2006)

when you drop 2k on a watch from an ad, perfect is mandatory. other words, no detectable flaw that can be seen by the naked eye. a fleck of the dial is stuck to the crystal? send it back. a piece of lume floating around? finger prints, lint, attempts to buff out flaws before the dealer sells his display piece as new. there is no such thing as acceptable flaws on a new watch.


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## OmegaSeiko (Jan 23, 2008)

I got my fortis from the grey market, but it has only one issue that I would place under quality control. If I strain, and look very closely, I think I can see a white printed number under the loom on the numbers 8 and 9. It is so hard to see, I think I could be imagining it, or it could be normal. Anyone else have this phenomenon?


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## djharte (Nov 23, 2007)

Sorry guys, I can't figure out how to take macro shots with my camera so the evidence will have to wait. I am just wording a letter to Fortis at the moment in fact, just to express my disappointment. My Doxa 750T (purchased from Browners) arrives tomorrow whereupon the Fortis one will be sent back via Austin Kayes (in London).

I don't want you guys to get the wrong impression, I really do like my Fortis a lot, and it has been very accurate, it is just unfortunate that the experience is spoiled by these issues. I do have to agree with one of the other posters though, if you are paying £1300 pounds for a watch then it should be perfect, at least I shouldn't be able to notice these things without straining my eyes.

On a side note, I was in Cancun recently and one of the high end Jewelry shops was selling Fortis watches. There was a B-42 for sale (with a white face) which appeared to also have poorly aligned sub dials. I wonder if this is just something Fortis don't really worry too much about.


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## MarkJnK (Nov 10, 2006)

In my opinion, a watch should be perfect to the naked eye. Especially any watch over $1k. Heck, if Seiko and Citizen can provide pefect dials and build quality at $300, then the Swiss should be held to the same standard at minimum.

Unfortunately, since my tastes have migrated towards Swiss watches, I've been increasingly more disappointed. It seems that I am dealing with a far higher percentage of QC issues with my more expensive Swiss watches than I was with my budget Japanese watches.

Perhaps part of this can be attributed to the fact that I buy the Japanese watches brand new from Grey market Singapore dealers, while I buy my Swiss watches from the forums, where they have passed through countless owners. Maybe the flawed watches tend to get passed around more?

it just reminds us that life isn't perfect, and how we deal with these imperfections is a personal attitude that is unique to each of us.


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## razcob (Nov 7, 2007)

MarkJnK said:


> In my opinion, a watch should be perfect to the naked eye. Especially any watch over $1k. Heck, if Seiko and Citizen can provide pefect dials and build quality at $300, then the Swiss should be held to the same standard at minimum.
> 
> Unfortunately, since my tastes have migrated towards Swiss watches, I've been increasingly more disappointed. It seems that I am dealing with a far higher percentage of QC issues with my more expensive Swiss watches than I was with my budget Japanese watches.
> 
> ...


Well spoken and I agree with you. The swiss watches have left me cold. I am going to purchase a G-shock for it's incredible reliablity that any swiss manufacturer would enjoy and I don't have to worry about hitting it against anything, or remember to put it on a winder because the reserve won't last through weekend chores.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

I agree that the name Japanese brands offer great value. My quartz G-Shock, however, does not come close to the accuracy of my Fortis automatic, which is astounding given that one is quartz and the other mechanical. You would expect the opposite results. Price points are obviously different, though.

But as you say, I wear my G-Shock when there may be abuse (it's tough), but my Fortis is the one I always want to wear.


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## manhattanproj (Dec 31, 2007)

any updates? 

but you arent the only one complaining about qc issues at fortis. it may really be there are qc problems in fortis factory.


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## HelloNasty1 (Jul 8, 2007)

I agree with Yamahaki, visible to the naked eye is unacceptable especially at that price point. If it were mine it would already have a tracking number and out the door to the "shop". I returned a watch once because after I got home it had a case ding on the edge of the case. When I went back to the AD he told me I would ding it anyway over time, the difference being I would have been the one to ding it. I did not need any extras dings on top of the ones I may do over time. He gave me another watch........


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## djharte (Nov 23, 2007)

I haven't had a chance to send the watch back yet, but would you believe that now the luminous marker at 5 minutes (the small square) is also starting to lose some if its lume, there is a small black line across the top of the square where the lume has come away. I do plan to send it back this week though and have written a letter of complaint to Fortis to accompany the watch; this is the third time it is going back in just over a year ...


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## SJACKAL (Mar 2, 2006)

djharte said:


> I haven't had a chance to send the watch back yet, but would you believe that now the luminous marker at 5 minutes (the small square) is also starting to lose some if its lume, there is a small black line across the top of the square where the lume has come away. I do plan to send it back this week though and have written a letter of complaint to Fortis to accompany the watch; this is the third time it is going back in just over a year ...


Sounds like its deteriorating :-( Maybe if you write well and tactful enough they might even give you a discount on your next watch. Good luck.


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## bushpilot (Apr 1, 2008)

man i hope your wives / girlfriends or SO's dont look at 
yall with as critical and EYE as you do your watches !


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## djharte (Nov 23, 2007)

I got the watch back today from the AD and the lume issue appears to be resolved. Unfortuantely though it looks like Fortis have not bothered to respond to my letter of complaint.


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

glad you got it back and everything is 'correct' now.
keep us posted on the outcome of your complaint letter.


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## SJACKAL (Mar 2, 2006)

djharte said:


> I got the watch back today from the AD and the lume issue appears to be resolved. Unfortuantely though it looks like Fortis have not bothered to respond to my letter of complaint.


I had sent email queries regarding products to Fortis before but never receive any reply either.


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## djharte (Nov 23, 2007)

SJACKAL said:


> I had sent email queries regarding products to Fortis before but never receive any reply either.


I don't believe that I will be hearing from Fortis ... I was tempted to ring them this week and see why they didn't repy to my letter but to be honest I don't really have the time to be chasing these sort of issues or writing letters of complaint for that matter. In any case I will never be buying a Fortis again on account of their blatant disregard for their customers.

On a side note I have to say I really do like that Seiko SpaceWalk, if only they would mass produce it ...


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## sjaakb (Feb 24, 2006)

If a company such as Fortis or their importer cannot even respond to customer inquiries they are really not worth getting the business don't you think? With it being a midline priced watch they should understand that their customer is not the billionaire hedge fund guy but the person who loves watches and stretches his $$$$ to buy what makes him tick. With somewhat of a challenging business climate in the US their sales numbers are bound to go down (cheap buck does not help either to hold prices). Don't forget business has been so good that all they had to do was take and ship orders...... Now customer service/communcation can set them apart either in a postitive or negative way. Don't expect too much..... sad huh?


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## SJACKAL (Mar 2, 2006)

sjaakb said:


> If a company such as Fortis or their importer cannot even respond to customer inquiries they are really not worth getting the business don't you think? With it being a midline priced watch they should understand that their customer is not the billionaire hedge fund guy but the person who loves watches and stretches his $$$$ to buy what makes him tick. With somewhat of a challenging business climate in the US their sales numbers are bound to go down (cheap buck does not help either to hold prices). Don't forget business has been so good that all they had to do was take and ship orders...... Now customer service/communcation can set them apart either in a postitive or negative way. Don't expect too much..... sad huh?


Oh yes, speaking of that, I did emailed the local distributor for this brand too, about buying some product accessories. No replies too. <|


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## Grifter (Jun 4, 2008)

The dealer locater on their page their page is down so I sent an e-mail for ADs and no reply. You'd figure that they'd respond to potential sales inquiries...


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Here's my issue: https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=127761

but I'm confident that my AD will resolve this issue.


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## bandityo (Dec 23, 2007)

I too emailed them for an AD here in Florida..no response yet...apparently they dont need new customers.

david


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## eurocopter (Nov 16, 2007)

RAREM5 said:


> Here's my issue: https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=127761
> 
> but I'm confident that my AD will resolve this issue.


Repaired link
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=158134


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

not to marginalize the efforts by those who tried to get hold of fortis by e-mail, but phone calls are still the best way to get things done. 

e-mail and text in general have never been a great way to communicate. so much of the way people speak and emphasize can never be properly transposed through text. 

i too e-mailed fortis initially and got no response. but i'm not one to wait for other people to get things done. i also don't have time to wait for other people to act. what's the saying? if you want something done right, do it yourself. 

one whole day after the e-mail was sent i called up. talked to eric and action was taken on the spot. 

e-mail, texting, IMs....heck, i'm surprised fax machines are still around (as primitive as they are........it all pales to voice. 

so rather then spend time speculating, call them and get things done.


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## gooter (Mar 17, 2008)

While I agree somewhat, email simply is a fact of doing business now. And if you're not going to reply, then dont have a link at all. Email, text and fax are now just as viable forms of communication as the phone, and if Fortis (or any other company for that matter) doesnt accept that, then it's their loss.


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## SJACKAL (Mar 2, 2006)

gooter said:


> While I agree somewhat, email simply is a fact of doing business now. And if you're not going to reply, then dont have a link at all. Email, text and fax are now just as viable forms of communication as the phone, and if Fortis (or any other company for that matter) doesnt accept that, then it's their loss.


I have agree, sadly though, as a Fortis watch fan.

In the information age, where even the simplest service providers use email as a form of communication, its surprising that a big watch company like Fortis don't reply to emails, I wonder if they even check their inbox.

They may be high tech in their watches, but their service is certainly not on par...

:-(


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## hess (Sep 19, 2007)

gooter.....i'd venture to say that this is not business as the sale ended and the owner of the watch has the product. 

this is now in the realm of customer service. and being able to provide some connection back to the brand is crucial if they want to keep customers. 

my main point was that the phone will get things done in cases like this. but people sometimes like to use other forms of more modern communication. these fall short of a plain old phone call.


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

I would agree with 'hess' when it comes to dealing with Fortis.
A PHONE CALL IS BEST.
Fortis USA is owned by LWR Time and is a rather small outfit as they
concentrate all of their time on just Fortis.
It is mainly run by 3 people in the office which can at times seem understaffed
but they do a bang up job dealing with all of their ADs and getting stock, 
services done and what not.
You really don't need any more people then that for a small company that doesn't do
any advertising and is really a 'word of mouth' brand.
They, in my opinion, are a hidden treasure... once discovered, they can become 
very addicting. (haha)
Because they are always 'on the go' an email may not receive the fastest response
but it will get answered.
In this case, a call is best cuz it will receive more immediate attention.
I have only ever received excellent service from Fortis and that is why they
are still my brand of choice.
My main contact is Danielle and she is AWESOME!
If anyone should ever have a problem, please contact her directly.
Any other questions, feel free to PM or email me.


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## yautjarekcah (Aug 11, 2007)

Hello to all.

Stumble upon this older thread when I was looking for information about Fortis watch. Can't help but to give my 2 cents on customer service for my 1st post in Fortis forum.

As for me, phone call isn't good enough. Imagine you have no local rep office for the watch brand and you need to find out some information pertaining the brand, make an overseas call just to find out some issue? Keep in mind that the time zone differences, call charges involved and the local AD might not have the answer to the question.

If one company won't able to response to email enquiry, then what's the point of having the email address in the first place? If one company has interest in expanding their business, slow or lack-of in email correspondance would have great negative impact. 

Just my RM0.02.


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## cneumann (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi guys, I'm a bit surprised to hear from Fortis' lack of response, I just bought my first (a B-42 Alarm Cronograph) and I sent them 2 emails, one regarding the alarm (I was expecting a chime whereas it only buzzes) and another inquiring as to the numbering on my watch, I purchased model # 639.22.11 and on the back, my watch reads 639.22.170 so I was curious. Both are trifling issues to be sure, but even so they responded promptly both times.

It's true they didn't bother to respond to my PS. questions but they did resolve my main doubts and pretty quickly at that. If you want you can PM me and I'll give you the email address of the lady who responded to my emails.

(oh, they said the 639.22.170 is used to described the VAL 7750 movement)

Hope this helps,

CN


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

Nice to read - and NOT surprising - that watch collectors are all OCD/anal-retentive bastards!
I drive myself nuts with this problem, hence I'm medicated.
Still doesn't change it, just keeps me from losing sleep over it.
My belief is that - and I'm a rank amateur compared to you guys - is that these "boutique brands" like Fortis, Tissot, etc. are less-perfect than the highly-mechanized Japanese brands like Seiko.
I love Seiko's for the fact that they ARE perfect, I also don't have passion for them for this reason.
It's like a Ducati motorcycle compared to a Honda.
The Honda is perfect in every way.
The Ducati is sex - imperfect - but sex.
Which is more fun?
Depends on my mood 

I don't think some companies have gotten around to understanding customer service in the internet age.
I've emailed companies that I have spent $20 on and got immediate and wonderful help.
I've emailed Tissot about my $1000 T-Touch Expert - not even for a problem - asking about buying other bands - and nothing in response.

So, I kinda like hearing this hobby is filled with sick guys like me


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