# I'm pissed at Fortis. >>



## walk54 (Sep 3, 2006)

I sent my less than 1 year old B-42 in for repair at PWH. The crown tube had receeded into the case preventing the screw down crown to lock down. Without my knowledge or permission they removed the screw down crown system and replaced it with a push in crown system. In an accompanying letter with the repaired watch I was told that the screw down crown system on the B-42 models were "problematic" and this was the crown system Fortis developed to repair those sent in for service. After going around a few times with Fortis reps at LWR time I was told basically this was the way Fortis was handling this issue and there was no other recourse. 

One of the main features that attracted me to this Fortis model was the oversized screw down crown which I no longer have. The new crown is at least a mm smaller all around. I have no confidence in the water resistance of a non locking crown although they insisted water resistance was not compromised with installation of the new crown system.

I even offered to pay the difference for a replacement watch with the original screw down system but they refused to agree even though they're for sale all over the place.

Surely they could have come up with an acceptable screw down crown replacement system that would be less of an undesireable change of design and loss of an important function. I have inexpensive watches with screw down systems that have worked flawlessly for years.

Regrettably, I will never own another Fortis product because of the indifference I was shown responding to what I feel was an unauthorized alteration of a critical watch feature that was changed without my knowledge. I don't believe this is a trivial issue.

Like any normal person I simply resent having something done to me against my will and without my knowledge and approval.

Mark in Ohio


----------



## quoll (Feb 10, 2006)

I have heard of the screw-down crown problems but not experienced it. I have also heard that Fortis are replacing the screw down with a different system when fixing broken ones. I had not heard of the smaller crown or of the 'do it without telling you' approach - I would be pissed too!

Does anyone know if they have changed the crown system on new models? I think they have?


----------



## martinpulli (May 24, 2006)

Mark,

I understand your frustration. However, sometimes the manufacturer develops a piece with all the best intentions for durability. Unfortunately, complications with 
componentry or design tend to reveal themselves after steady use. I feel that a company is progressive if they accept responsibility for the flaw andtake the time to develop a replacement system or part that equals the intended performance levels of the spec., asthetics aside.

In the current issue of Watchtime there is a test of a number of dive watches. The B-42 Marinemaster is among those in the tests. pg 78 "This watches crown is the only one in the comparison that isn't screwed. Nevertheless, in our test, the case remained impermeabe in saltwater and under strong air or water pressure. The watch is designed to resist 25 ATM of water pressure for one hour- and lived up to these specifications." ...

The unscrewed crown is actually the standard for Fortis throughout the B-42 range now.

But, you can never argue about the asthetic part, that is quite personal.


----------



## snorkeler (Sep 17, 2006)

walk54 said:


> ...I have no confidence in the water resistance of a non locking crown although they insisted water resistance was not compromised with installation of the new crown system.


Too bad you didn't do a search, a couple of us have had this repair done. IMHO, my watch is better off without that goofy screwdown crown. My new crown is the same size as the original. In the latest issue of Watchtime, they test the Fortis with push-in crown to 250M and it holds up just fine.


----------



## walk54 (Sep 3, 2006)

Well you are apparently lucky. My crown is obviously smaller and PWH admitted the replacement crown was smaller. As for the water resistance test I will draw my own conclusions based on *my *personal experiences with *my* particular watch. The point is I am not happy with the way this was handled. Had they informed me of their intentions prior to service I could have had the option to decline service and have the watch repaired by a reputable individual at my own expense. Even at the risk of voiding the warranty.


----------



## snorkeler (Sep 17, 2006)

walk54 said:


> ...Had they informed me of their intentions prior to service I could have had the option to decline service and have the watch repaired by a reputable individual at my own expense. Even at the risk of voiding the warranty.


It's not as if the info isn't out there. First, I took my broken Fortis to my local watchmaker because I hate Euro service/warrenty work, I'd rather pay someone I trust. He tried to get service parts and wasn't able to, Fortis told him to send it in (so you can't get it service any other way than what you got). Then I searched on the 'net and found out that Fortis had stopped making the B-42 case with a screwed in crown. I was pissed because I'd rather have the latest upgrades instead of a watch with a design defect and the shop in Lugano (4000 miles away) had sold me old stock. More searches on the 'net provided info that Fortis' US service agent, Providence Watch Hospital, was a first class outfit. With some worry, I sent my watch off, PWH fixed it for no charge and sent it back in less than 2 weeks. I am very happy with my Fortis experince. I only wish they had the lugs at 22mm instead of 20mm :-!

If the crown is the wrong size, let PWH know, if they don't do you right, email Fortis in Switzerland, I am sure they will make things right.



> As for the water resistance test I will draw my own conclusions based on *my *personal experiences with *my* particular watch.


LOL, let me know if you're able to go low enough to breech the seals :-d


----------



## walk54 (Sep 3, 2006)

I wish I could be as satisfied with the situation as you. I did complain to both PWH and LWR about the crown size. I spoke to real people on the phone. They directed me to send it back in to have a look at it. A rep from PWH later called me and advised they could do nothing further and the crown that was installed was the now standard replacement size, admittedly smaller than the original crown. So where could I go from there? I hit a dead end. They considered the repair satisfactorily accomplished and the issue over. Needless to say this whole incident removed my watch from service for over a month with back and forth shipping at my expense. If you know of another way to approach this or of a higher level of contact i'm certainly open to suggestions.
Thanks for responding, I do appreciate the information, i'm just frustrated.


----------



## snorkeler (Sep 17, 2006)

here's a pix of my replacement crown, it couldn't be any larger and fit under the bezel. I'd ask PWH to get you one of these. If they say they can't, I'd write the CEO of Fortis and give him a link to this thread:


----------



## tallguy (Feb 14, 2006)

You might pm cnmark who has a pretty good amount of detail regarding the switch....made me glad that mine came with the newer system.


----------



## martinpulli (May 24, 2006)

Walk54. If you were dealing with OMEGA or a bigger company your watch would have been out of service for 6 months plus and it still might not be right. I think PWH did you a great service. Sometimes perspective and experience render clarity.


----------



## walk54 (Sep 3, 2006)

I consider the matter over. Fortis did not fulfill their service obligations to my expectations and there is no further recourse. I will do no further business with Fortis and I will vanish from this forum. The best of luck to all of you I appreciate your insight and advice.
Mark.


----------



## rmcsilva (Sep 18, 2006)

Well, i disagree with walk54. From what is writen, it seems to me that Fortis did the right thing: they replaced the defective part with the upgraded version, the current (and tsted) version. They even sent a letter explaining this! As far as the time the service took (1 month), this is way less than average for most swiss brands. I´m not sure what more could have been done...

Regards


----------



## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

hi.
just wanted to let you know that it is PROTOCALL for the crown systems to 
be changed out when going in to service.
i have a buddy that is a watchmaker and worked at PWH and that's what he told me.

as for more info, read my post here...
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=509199#poststop

take care and enjoy the Fortis.

Steve



walk54 said:


> I sent my less than 1 year old B-42 in for repair at PWH. The crown tube had receeded into the case preventing the screw down crown to lock down. Without my knowledge or permission they removed the screw down crown system and replaced it with a push in crown system. In an accompanying letter with the repaired watch I was told that the screw down crown system on the B-42 models were "problematic" and this was the crown system Fortis developed to repair those sent in for service. After going around a few times with Fortis reps at LWR time I was told basically this was the way Fortis was handling this issue and there was no other recourse.
> 
> One of the main features that attracted me to this Fortis model was the oversized screw down crown which I no longer have. The new crown is at least a mm smaller all around. I have no confidence in the water resistance of a non locking crown although they insisted water resistance was not compromised with installation of the new crown system.
> 
> ...


----------



## no_self_control (Jun 27, 2007)

walk54 said:


> I sent my less than 1 year old B-42 in for repair at PWH. The crown tube had receeded into the case preventing the screw down crown to lock down. Without my knowledge or permission they removed the screw down crown system and replaced it with a push in crown system. In an accompanying letter with the repaired watch I was told that the screw down crown system on the B-42 models were "problematic" and this was the crown system Fortis developed to repair those sent in for service. After going around a few times with Fortis reps at LWR time I was told basically this was the way Fortis was handling this issue and there was no other recourse.
> 
> One of the main features that attracted me to this Fortis model was the oversized screw down crown which I no longer have. The new crown is at least a mm smaller all around. I have no confidence in the water resistance of a non locking crown although they insisted water resistance was not compromised with installation of the new crown system.
> 
> ...


if this was done without your consent then you have every right to claim against them.


----------



## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

I actually had the "crown issue" with my Flieger GMT and sent it off to PWH a while back. I was actually expecting (hoping) they would replace my screw-down crown with the newer non-screw version. Unfortunately, I believe they only do this for the larger cased B-42 or Cosmonaut models. My logic was there would be one less part to worry about breaking, and it seems like less hassle. 

But my feeling is, as long as it works (i.e. keeps out water, does not break), I am fine with whatever crown they use. The service I received from PWH was excellent, and turnaround time was in line with the OP (which is great, btw). If I have any issue at all, it's that the crowns malfunctioned in the first place, not that Fortis did something to FIX them!


----------



## fieter (Jun 9, 2007)

walk54

The push in crown is solid - I take mine into the ocean all the time and it has never leaked.

They did you a favour! Relax. Wear a different watch for a few days - you'll eventually get over it and realise the B42 is still a great watch !
You don't have to vanish from the forum either ... throwing your toys and refusing to play with us over a watch crown is a bit excessive don't you think?


----------



## fieter (Jun 9, 2007)

walk54

The push in crown is solid - I take mine into the ocean all the time and it has never leaked.

They did you a favour! Relax. Wear a different watch for a few days - you'll eventually get over it and realise the B42 is still a great watch !



> I will do no further business with Fortis and I will vanish from this forum.


You don't have to vanish from the forum either ... throwing your toys and refusing to play with us over a watch crown is a bit excessive don't you think?


----------



## dbluefish (Apr 4, 2007)

I own a Pilot Pro PVD and have had it for a month or so. No problems and of course it is screw down, but I asked Markus, and he said the issue was with the B-42 models only, I believe. But my main point is this is The Fortis Forum and we can, indeed are encouraged, to let it all hang out. We of course should give Fortis a chance but it is refreshing to me just to be able to hear this dialogue without Fortis stepping in and telling us to get out of the forum. I like my Fortis, I plan on adding more to my collection, and I support this forum completely! So my thanks to the moderator et al for setting this site up. 

Thanks for listening

paul|>|>


----------



## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

Plus, the current issue of WatchTime does a diver "torture test" on about a half-dozen dive watches (awesome in-depth article btw) and the Fortis MarineMaster with the new crown system passed the pressure test with flying colors. (One Breitling was not so lucky, however, though it was probably just a faulty crystal!)


----------



## sierra 18 (Nov 8, 2006)

I personally was concerned about the push in crown at first, and had even sent my new B-42 to Fortis Canada to check the crown; an initial phone call to service indicated that the crown should screw in. It wasn't doing so, and I sent it to Fortis Canada, after which time I was advised that the crowns are now push in owing to a number of warranty claims from customers mis-threading their crowns.

I found the push in a dream to set the time. By the by, I have 2 Rolexes and both are trickier to set the time (the minute hands jump as you try to ease the crown back in) than the Fortis.

With the MarineMaster, I could set the time bang on then just push the crown in, no probs.

As indicated above, the Watch Time review showed the MarineMaster exceeded its depth rating with the push in crown.

For what its worth.

Chris


----------



## nonde (Feb 12, 2008)

Could you please tell me where can i find this article (WatchTime) about the torture test to the divres?

Thanks


----------



## Eman (Feb 8, 2008)

walk54 said:


> I consider the matter over. Fortis did not fulfill their service obligations to my expectations and there is no further recourse. I will do no further business with Fortis and I will vanish from this forum. The best of luck to all of you I appreciate your insight and advice.
> Mark.


Mark,

Could you post a picture? I think many of us would like to see exactly what watch it is and see the crown on it. Is this the case on the B-42 Cosmo Chrono? If ordering a Fortis, this would be a good question to ask so we do not have to turn around and send it right back.


----------



## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

The article I was referring to was in the October 2007 issue of _WatchTime_, entitled _Torture Test: 9 Divers' Watches_. It's a very in-depth article at 14 pgs. The test included: Fortis B-42 Marinemaster, Breitling SO Steelfish, Oris TT1, Mido All Dial Diver, Sinn U2, Doxa Sub 750T, Tag Heuer Aquaracer, Certina DS3 Chrono, and UTS Pro Diver 1000.

The Fortis holds its own with all these divers, and bests quite a few. I highly recommend seeking this issue out (maybe try watchtime.com and see if they sell back issues).

Hope this helps.



nonde said:


> Could you please tell me where can i find this article (WatchTime) about the torture test to the divres?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Eman (Feb 8, 2008)

So will a new one ordered have the push crown? The one at the dealer I am looking at has the screw in one. Or is this something only done after there is a problem?


----------



## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

The newer B-42 models all have the push-pull crown. If you were looking at a B-42, the one you saw at the dealer was old stock. As long as they are an authorized dealer you will be covered if the crown malfunctions, when they will replace with newer push-pull system.



Eman said:


> So will a new one ordered have the push crown? The one at the dealer I am looking at has the screw in one. Or is this something only done after there is a problem?


----------



## Eman (Feb 8, 2008)

Will all the new crowns be similar to the one shown in snorkeler's picture above?


----------

