# Project Kingston



## Yao

Project Kinston: This is the interim name and "Kingston" is also my suggestion for the name of the watch. Kingston, Jamaica is where the first Bond movie was set.










Based on the survey results the specifications are:

Based on the survey the watch will feature the following specifications: 
Size: 39-39.3 mm in diameter
Length: 47.90 mm
Crystal: Domed sapphire with AR coating on the interior
Crown: Trip-lock style crown (8 mm diameter)
Dial: primary dial will be non-date with perhaps a date option

Issues to be decided:
Name of the watch
Bracelet style/type (Fliplock, riveted style vs. oyster-style, &#8230
Dial option(s)
Hand design
Case back design
Bezel insert options

The side view of the watch is the current iteration. The front vview is pretty much "done" but the side view I would like some input. The ends of the lugs will have to be round just a bit. The fact that they come to a sharp point right now is just because its an intermediate illustration.

I will be working on the page on the site so that we can begin taking deposits for this project. I will also be editing this post throughout the day by adding more information. Please let me know what you think so far.


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## ScottH

*I really like what I see so far...*

In the side view the lugs do indeed look too pointed. I don't have an original to go by but I'd assume that you may be limited by the profile of whatever endlinks would fit the potential bracelet. Are you debating whether to use an oyster style case back or a standard non-Rolex style? Based on aesthetics I'd prefer the oyster style but then you may have to buy new tools.


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## Dr. Robert

Very sharp...........I like it a lot as shown in pic, except for the yellow?(I'm not a purist) trim, I prefer all white. Can you use the same style of "oyster" type bracelet that is on my Vantage? It would look most excellent on a "Bond" stripe strap, too. Also no screw ins for the spring bar, it's too hard to change and too much possibilities to scratch watch, the regular ones will do. And if you do an order page can it be thru your regular MKII site...I don't care for "paypal"


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## sschum

Love it, Bill. The top view is just as it should be. What thickness do you anticipate? As you and others have stated, getting the proportions right on this is the key. By the way, I like the Kingston name.


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## caesarmascetti

Is the crown supposed to be this large in respect to the watch? I may be wrong but it seems the crown throws the balance of the design off.


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## MatKid152

I think the watch looks great. The Kingston name is a nice subtle homage. The yellow trim I believe was on the original as is the huge crown. Take a look here the link is work safe. http://www.ajb007.co.uk/articles/rolex-submariner// Mods go easy on me this is my first link posting. Otherwise I agree the side view of the lugs is too pointy. Any thoughts as to whether it will have spring bars or screw bars? I would prefer screw in.


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## caesarmascetti

caesarmascetti said:


> Is the crown supposed to be this large in respect to the watch? I may be wrong but it seems the crown throws the balance of the design off.


Nevermind


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## timbo

Exciting project Bill, I'm sure it will be a brilliant watch.

I found a pretty good link to some macro images of the 6538 from every angle, including nice side shots of the lugs:

'Bond' Rolex 6538 Images 










I like the name Kingston - it isn't a direct a Bond reference which is appealing - names like 007, Bond, Fleming, Goldfinger etc. would just be too obvious.

On the bracelet front - I'm not too sure what the difference between oyster, flip-lock and riveted exactly are. I know that a Bond style Nato will be a popular strap for this watch, maybe you could include that as an option?

I think a Date option would broaden the appeal a bit. I know I find it useful, although I must admit I am not a huge fan of the traditional 3 o'clock placement - but that's me  That being said, I would probably order a dateless version if I ordered one today.

When you mention there are still issues to be ironed out on hand design, do you mean options? The ones you have in the wireframe above look pretty good - just like the original.

For the caseback - there is no reason we couldn't 'have our cake and eat it too' - a traditional Rolex oyster coin edge caseback combined with standard holes found on 'normal' non-Rolex watches. That way you'd have the neat rolex side profile, but could take the caseback off with normal tools (Debaufre does this).

As for bezel inserts, I think the option of having the minute hashes from 12 to 3 o'clock would be a good option. Also, it appears that the numbers on the 6538 insert are larger than the ones you have in the wireframe, that they go right to the edge of the insert. That might be a good option as well.

A crown signed MKII with 'Brevet' around the outer edge wouldn't hurt, either. (I don't know if Brevet is a trademark of Rolex, though...)

One thing I find appealing about the Bond watch is how chunky that 8mm Brevet crown looks. I wonder if making the watch diameter slightly larger than the original (39ish vs. original 37) would lessen that effect? Maybe a slight bump in crown diameter could keep that in proportion?

At any rate, I am really looking forward to the process, and the end result, of course. Thanks for involving everyone on this!


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## roadkingrider

_*Bill:

Congratulations on your success in the world of watches and this new forum!!!*_ Just yesterday I was flipping the channels and came across Dr. No on the BBC network. It makes no difference how many times you have seen it, Dr. No is one of those classic films that just can't be passed up. I suspect that Ursula Andress has a lot to do with that, at least for me.

Anyway, if you are thinking about a name, other than Kingston, for this watch - my suggestion is the _*STRANGWAYS 006*_. You could make a ladies version and call it the _*HONEY RYDER*_.

_*Best Wishes!!!*_


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## NWP627

The watch is looking good Bill. I assume the gold on the face mimics the "Rolex gilt" of the original - nice touch. I like the name Kingston, it doesn't scream Bond, yet for the cognoscenti it has meaning. On that topic, please don't put any reference to Bond/007/etc. on the case back. Instead put something simple, befitting its classic design, like the movement name, the date of the watch's manufacture. If the watch will be a limited edition it's serial number. The dial, hands and the bezel insert are fine just the way you show them. Perhaps some lume in the bezel numbers?

 
As for the bracelet style a simple rubber strap would be fine since I'm sure most would want to customize the watch themselves and the rubber would keep the overall cost down. That is unless you can source a well balanced mesh for this watch. 
Thank you for this opportunity. 

N


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## usc1

Everything looks like it is a true homage of the original rolex. 

If you added the date option, what position would it be on the dial?

Great work Mr. Yao!


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## Yao

Dr. Robert said:


> Very sharp...........I like it a lot as shown in pic, except for the yellow?(I'm not a purist) trim, I prefer all white. Can you use the same style of "oyster" type bracelet that is on my Vantage? It would look most excellent on a "Bond" stripe strap, too. Also no screw ins for the spring bar, it's too hard to change and too much possibilities to scratch watch, the regular ones will do. And if you do an order page can it be thru your regular MKII site...I don't care for "paypal"


I thought that maybe we can do a date version of this same dial with a standard white text and minute track and keep the non-date dial as close to the original.

I am of the opinion that we stick with standard spring bars.


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## Yao

Thickness of the current iteration of the side view is 14.50 mm. The thickness of the original as far as I can tell is about 15-15.50 mm but may be as low as 13.00 m. I think the 15 is probably closer to the original. In addition I want to make the case back relatively tall so that the extra large crown doesn't dig into the wrist.



sschum said:


> Love it, Bill. The top view is just as it should be. What thickness do you anticipate? As you and others have stated, getting the proportions right on this is the key. By the way, I like the Kingston name.


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## sschum

Yao said:


> Thickness of the current iteration of the side view is 14.50 mm. The thickness of the original as far as I can tell is about 15-15.50 mm but may be as low as 13.00 m. I think the 15 is probably closer to the original. In addition I want to make the case back relatively tall so that the extra large crown doesn't dig into the wrist.


Sounds great Bill. Thanks


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## Thieuster

> A crown signed MKII with 'Brevet' around the outer edge wouldn't hurt, either. (I don't know if Brevet is a trademark of Rolex, though...)


And if it's a trademark of Rolex, then there's always the option of a crown signed 'MKII'. I think that's a bold statement too!

Menno


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## abuemily

I like it ... a lot! I'll be looking for this one on the site.


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## Yao

I think "Brevet" means "Patented" in French. It would be fun to use but since its not my patent I think we should just go the route of a Mk II logo or something else if someone has something else in mind. :-d



Thieuster said:


> And if it's a trademark of Rolex, then there's always the option of a crown signed 'MKII'. I think that's a bold statement too!
> 
> Menno


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## Yao

usc1 said:


> Everything looks like it is a true homage of the original rolex.
> 
> If you added the date option, what position would it be on the dial?
> 
> Great work Mr. Yao!


My thought was to put the date window at 3 but we could certainly put it at 4.30 if there is strong feeling towards that direction.


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## SeikoSickness

For anyone interested in all sorts of James Bond watches, check out the February issue of International Watch magazine. I just received my copy and this issue features an article titled *Time for Bond Part 1 (1962-1979)*. I guess part 2 will be out next month. The Rolex Submariner is the first photo in the piece.


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## Yao

Thanks for the heads up. I will go pick up a copy. :-!



SeikoSickness said:


> For anyone interested in all sorts of James Bond watches, check out the February issue of International Watch magazine. I just received my copy and this issue features an article titled *Time for Bond Part 1 (1962-1979)*. I guess part 2 will be out next month. The Rolex Submariner is the first photo in the piece.


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## giosdad

I think this is a great start. I will have to do some more reserach for additional comments but so far:

The name is great. I like the size and thickness. Over 14.5mm seems like it will be too top heavy or at least feel that way. It will be interesting to found out what the original was. Slightly thinner would be OK as well.

I would like to see bracelet mock -up of the different styles or will comment after researching further. 

I like the hand design and the retro yellow trim. I am in the "must have" date camp so would like to see options on the date. Including looking at a yellow on black date wheel mock-up. I like the hands and insert shown. This is a great time to start taking suggestions for a great bond inspired case back.


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## Thieuster

> This is a great time to start taking suggestions for a great bond inspired case back


Engraved back with the 'look through the barrel of a rifle' swirls. (Don't know how to put that down in correct English). Anyway, without the Bond figure in the middle. On the position of the Bond figure: the MKII logo with the #of the watch, starting with #001 perhaps?










Menno


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## obie

Looks good Bill. 

If you would do a version date (which I wouldn't) I would put it at the traditional 3 o'clock position and put a cyclops on it.


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## pipers

This is a great project! My recommendation is to please stay as close as possible to the original. Highly domed sapphire (like sinn 356 for that truly vintage look), minimal printing on the dial (i would remove the word automatic, sterile dial if possible), riveted bracelet with folded endlinks... 

I am really looking forward this one... Thanks Mr. Yao!


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## Yao

While I like the concept I am pretty sure that Omega and the Eon productions probably wouldn't be amused. The "Bond" editions of the Omega watches feature a similar design on the dial. We will have to be more subtle I think or just try to keep it simple.



Thieuster said:


> Engraved back with the 'look through the barrel of a rifle' swirls. (Don't know how to put that down in correct English). Anyway, without the Bond figure in the middle. On the position of the Bond figure: the MKII logo with the #of the watch, starting with #001 perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Menno


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## Yao

pipers said:


> This is a great project! My recommendation is to please stay as close as possible to the original. Highly domed sapphire (like sinn 356 for that truly vintage look), minimal printing on the dial (i would remove the word automatic, sterile dial if possible), riveted bracelet with folded endlinks...
> 
> I am really looking forward this one... Thanks Mr. Yao!


I have some drawings of a riveted style bracelet. I will let you guys decide whether it is close enough. No one that I know of makes bracelets the way they used to make them back then so I came up with something that is similar but not exactly the same.


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## giosdad

timbo said:


> Exciting project Bill, I'm sure it will be a brilliant watch.
> 
> I found a pretty good link to some macro images of the 6538 from every angle, including nice side shots of the lugs:
> 
> 'Bond' Rolex 6538 Images


Great reference pictures.

Not a bad idea on the coin edge case back and a little more subtle than I had originally thought for the caseback instead a big engraved, though the coind edge and a smaller picture with the MKII logo in the middle would not be a bad idea either.

I love the high domed crystal and am glad that it will be sapphire and less prone to scratching.

Though the riveted bracelet is nice to go with the retro look will a riveted bracelet have the right weight and feel to it? I prefer bracelets and though I would wear it on a bond nato as well, a solid feeling bracelet is preferred. The bracelet in the reference pictures show what usually happened to rivets over time where the stretch out and loosen.


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## colinman.77

Yao said:


> I thought that maybe we can do a date version of this same dial with a standard white text and minute track and keep the non-date dial as close to the original.
> 
> I am of the opinion that we stick with standard spring bars.


This looks really great Bill! I am really excited about this watch. My personal preference would be a date dial with the yellow markers and the date at 4:30. The date dial on the Stingray is perfect and the date doesn't upset the symmetry at all.


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## Donald Grant

MatKid152 said:


> I think the watch looks great. The Kingston name is a nice subtle homage. The yellow trim I believe was on the original as is the huge crown. Take a look here the link is work safe. http://www.ajb007.co.uk/articles/rolex-submariner// Mods go easy on me this is my first link posting. Otherwise I agree the side view of the lugs is too pointy. Any thoughts as to whether it will have spring bars or screw bars? I would prefer screw in.


Thanks for posting the link to my article written for Absolutely James Bond. I was going to do it but you saved me the trouble. I've notified my fellow AJBers of Bill's project and I suspect he will get a lot of interest there.

I would like to see only two lines above the six o'cock, the depth rating in white or silver and name of the watch in gilt. I don't think you need the word "automatic". Put it on the case back if you must, but not on the dial. To me the two lines above the six o'clock is part of the whole DNA of the watch. The same goes for the big crown.

DG


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## Yao

Donald Grant said:


> Thanks for posting the link to my article written for Absolutely James Bond. I was going to do it but you saved me the trouble. I've notified my fellow AJBers of Bill's project and I suspect he will get a lot of interest there.
> 
> I would like to see only two lines above the six o'cock, the depth rating in white or silver and name of the watch in gilt. I don't think you need the word "automatic". Put it on the case back if you must, but not on the dial. To me the two lines above the six o'clock is part of the whole DNA of the watch. The same goes for the big crown.
> 
> DG


Okay. Unless there is a strong objection we will remove the "Automatic" from the dial. I hadn't noticed that the watch in the movies only has two lines of text above the 6 o'clock marker. I was going by a photo of a 6538 that had three lines of text (the Chronometer version.)


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## Donald Grant

Please don't put automatic on the dial. Keep it a two line above the six o'clock. Hands need to be gilt as well.

DG


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## Yao

Donald Grant said:


> Please don't put automatic on the dial. Keep it a two line above the six o'clock. Hands need to be gilt as well.
> 
> DG


Gotcha  What do people think of doing one set of dials and hands in gilt and the other set in standard white/silver (Rhodium) plated hands? The second set would also be the date version. The gilt set would be the non-date.


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## Donald Grant

I don't have a problem with an alternate dial and hands set. Of course, I'll be buying the gilt version. But part of what makes MKII great is the options it offers it's customers. A bespoke watch befitting Bond is a perfect match. Can't miss.

DG


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## Nordstrom

NWP627 said:


> As for the bracelet style a simple rubber strap would be fine since I'm sure most would want to customize the watch themselves and the rubber would keep the overall cost down. That is unless you can source a well balanced mesh for this watch.
> Thank you for this opportunity.
> 
> N


I have to disagree...I think that the bracelet / band choice is an important part of the overall design and presentation. If you're going for an accurate homage, then go all the way and choose a killer bracelet or band that will augment and optimize the watch head.

One man's opinion. :-!


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## GraniteQuarry

Interesting piece Bill, i'll be keeping an eye on this one ;-)


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## k7lro

Nordstrom said:


> I have to disagree...I think that the bracelet / band choice is an important part of the overall design and presentation. If you're going for an accurate homage, then go all the way and choose a killer bracelet or band that will augment and optimize the watch head.
> 
> One man's opinion. :-!


I agree so that makes it two men's opinion. There's a guy over on MWR who was making a batch of NATO's that are supposed to minic the Bond NATO's colors so there's one option.

From Billy Schoor: (Billy - if there are any objections linking to your photograph, I'm happy to remove it. )










I think for a little extra variety, I'll keep an olongapo around also for occasional wear. There will also be whatever Bill selects so there's one more option.

Bill - 20-mm lug size?


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## jhobbs

Wow, I'm getting pretty excited about this one. Everything sounds great so far. Non-date version all the way for me.


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## giosdad

Yao said:


> Gotcha  What do people think of doing one set of dials and hands in gilt and the other set in standard white/silver (Rhodium) plated hands? The second set would also be the date version. The gilt set would be the non-date.


This sounds good and keeps in line with the ability to customize to your satisfaction. Can mock-ups be made of these options?


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## sschum

Some caseback ideas:

This:










or, this: ;-)










Scott


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## Graeme

Here's an idea for a logo for the caseback or the dial? :think:


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## teeritz

Bill, you've done it again! First, the Stingray, then the Vantage followed closely by the LRRP. And now this. Another MKII watch added to the wishlist.
Stop it, you're killing me!
Seriously though, this is a nice watch. I'm not crazy about the Kingston name, but I'm struggling to come up with something better. How about "Caribbean", since it has more of a diving connotation to it?
As for the case-back, since Bond is first seen in "Dr No" sitting at a gaming table in a Casino, what about a casino chip design for the back, with the MKII logo in the centre?
That way, it ties in with the entire film, with Bond starting out in a casino and ending up in a boat with Honey Rider in the Caribbean.
Hmm, you know, as soon as I typed that line, it suddenly doesn't sound all that great.
Well, what do you expect from a Bond fan?
Just my 2c.

teeritz


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## caesarmascetti

sschum said:


> Some caseback ideas:
> 
> This:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or, this: ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott


++++++++++++++++1 on Ursula on the caseback!!!


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## Yao

*Okay...*

why don't I work on something simple/basic for the case back design as a fall back while you guys work out what might be more interesting. The island idea is nice. Ursula I am afraid will lose a lot in translation 



caesarmascetti said:


> ++++++++++++++++1 on Ursula on the caseback!!!


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## Yao

teeritz said:


> Bill, you've done it again! First, the Stingray, then the Vantage followed closely by the LRRP. And now this. Another MKII watch added to the wishlist.
> Stop it, you're killing me!
> Seriously though, this is a nice watch. I'm not crazy about the Kingston name, but I'm struggling to come up with something better. How about "Caribbean", since it has more of a diving connotation to it?
> As for the case-back, since Bond is first seen in "Dr No" sitting at a gaming table in a Casino, what about a casino chip design for the back, with the MKII logo in the centre?
> That way, it ties in with the entire film, with Bond starting out in a casino and ending up in a boat with Honey Rider in the Caribbean.
> Hmm, you know, as soon as I typed that line, it suddenly doesn't sound all that great.
> Well, what do you expect from a Bond fan?
> Just my 2c.
> 
> teeritz


I like how your idea tells the story but "Caribbean" is a trademark of the Jenny family/Doxa SA. I don't know may be there is a way to tie in Baccarat into a caseback idea since it is how the movie opens?


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## pplateau

It is a nice looking piece; however, there are a lot of options on the market for this style soooo:: could it have markers somewhat larger like the 5513 originals? Could it offer an acrylic domed crystal (might keep cost down); could it be a thinner than 14 mm?; might there be a fixed bar option?; Lastly: and importantly: Can the cost be trimmed to $550 or under???? Just one man's opinions for consideration; thanks.


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## Yao

Can you send me link to a shoulder-less sub option? I haven't seen one available before. For something closer to the 5513 the LRRP is probably a better choice I would think.

The crystal material choice was a result of the poll that was done. The majority of those polled preferred a sapphire crystal. The fixed bar won't be an option as it deviates too far from the "Bond" Sub concept.

To make the watch for less than $550 would sacrificing the quality of the piece. It could be done but it would mean pretty much making a generic sub-style watch by stripping away all of the nice details. The price for pre-order customers won't be too much higher than $550 and there is a bonus involved that will lower the practical cost to around what you suggest. I should have more details posted on my site later this evening.



pplateau said:


> It is a nice looking piece; however, there are a lot of options on the market for this style soooo:: could it have markers somewhat larger like the 5513 originals? Could it offer an acrylic domed crystal (might keep cost down); could it be a thinner than 14 mm?; might there be a fixed bar option?; Lastly: and importantly: Can the cost be trimmed to $550 or under???? Just one man's opinions for consideration; thanks.


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## John_in_MA

Bill,

This look great.

I'm glad you are removing the "Automatic" from the dial. Have you considered changing the white text to match the rest of the gilt text? Reason I ask is that it appears to be that way in real life (though I'm not 100% sure). 

Regarding the Kingston name, nice. What about a possible 2nd option for consideration? My 2 cents, Seven? Another subtle homage to Bond and the watch would start with the same letter as the Sub.


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## Yao

Graeme said:


> Here's an idea for a logo for the caseback or the dial? :think:


Great to see you here. When we get the design closer to finished I'd like to have you work up a 3D model for this project 

Thanks for the suggestion for a logo :thanks


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## Yao

Yes. I will do some mock-ups of the options.



giosdad said:


> This sounds good and keeps in line with the ability to customize to your satisfaction. Can mock-ups be made of these options?


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## Yao

Keep the name suggestions coming and we will put it up to a vote when the time comes.

Based on some pics that I collected the depth rating is off white. I not sure if that is because the gilt didn't come through as nicely or if it is discoloration. The name on the original was definitely gilt.



John_in_SC said:


> Bill,
> 
> This look great.
> 
> I'm glad you are removing the "Automatic" from the dial. Have you considered changing the white text to match the rest of the gilt text? Reason I ask is that it appears to be that way in real life (though I'm not 100% sure).
> 
> Regarding the Kingston name, nice. What about a possible 2nd option for consideration? My 2 cents, Seven? Another subtle homage to Bond and the watch would start with the same letter as the Sub.


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## Donald Grant

I am not opposed to the name Kingston, however I do think it's worth discussion. I was thinking something more generic like "Diver", "SubSea", "SeaDiver", "DeepSea", "DeepSix, "DeepSeven" or "DeepDiver". In other words, a name that suggests the watches intended purpose wich is diving and underwater pursuits.

Although the original "big crown" shoulderless Submariners had smooth casebacks, I see no reason why a name like Kingston could not appear on the back, along with MKII and Automatic etc.

As for gilt versus white/silver for the depth rating, I've gone back and forth on what Connery's Submariner had. I am of the opinion that the depth rating was white/silver rather than gilt. But it is indeed hard to tell.

DG


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## pplateau

Sounds good Bill; many thanks for doing this project and "hearing" us.


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## Donald Grant

Scratch "DeepSix" and "DeepSeven". These are actually marks on a lead line, which was a method used by old time Mariners to take soundings (check depth of the warter). "By the deep seven" means near seven fathoms or only about 42 feet. The MKII Bond homage has a depth of 660ft which is about 110 fathoms.

Trivia: Samuel Clemmens used the pen name Mark Twain which is the old style way of saying mark 2 on the lead line, or 2 fathoms. Taken from his riverboat days.

DG


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## giosdad

Yao said:


> The price for pre-order customers won't be too much higher than $550 and there is a bonus involved that will lower the practical cost to around what you suggest. I should have more details posted on my site later this evening.


Ooh I like the sound of this. :-!


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## jhobbs

I really like the name Kingston, don't know why. Just like the way it sounds and looks on the dial. Something different I guess.

The name "Double 0" popped into my head earlier, but I still like Kingston.


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## pplateau

Kingston is good !


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## NWP627

*Re: Okay...*



Yao said:


> why don't I work on something simple/basic for the case back design as a fall back while you guys work out what might be more interesting. The island idea is nice. Ursula I am afraid will lose a lot in translation


Simple and basic is good, Bill.
N


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## Gordon

*Re: Okay...*



NWP627 said:


> Simple and basic is good, Bill.
> N


:-! I'll go with that!


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## NWP627

Yao said:


> I have some drawings of a riveted style bracelet. I will let you guys decide whether it is close enough. No one that I know of makes bracelets the way they used to make them back then so I came up with something that is similar but not exactly the same.


It's my opinion that no one makes bracelets the way they used to because they weren't made very well back then. I'm all for the idea of being as original as possible but I also want to be able to wear the watch - often - without having to worry about the bracelet failing. 
N


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## sschum

NWP627 said:


> It's my opinion that no one makes bracelets the way they used to because they weren't made very well back then. I'm all for the idea of being as original as possible but I also want to be able to wear the watch - often - without having to worry about the bracelet failing.
> N


I agree. I want a bracelet that is comfortable and secure. Let's have the best bracelet option.


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## bjp

Will the lugs be drilled? They should be, no? It doesn't look like they are in the mock-up pic.


|>

ben


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## Yao

They will be drilled like the original. I just didn't feel the need to add that detail yet but probably should have since its not just me looking that the drawings this time around;-)



bjp said:


> Will the lugs be drilled? They should be, no? It doesn't look like they are in the mock-up pic.
> 
> |>
> 
> ben


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## jhobbs

Will you need to be a previous customer to get in on the pre-order of can you be a new customer?


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## Yao

The pre-order will be open to everyone.



jhobbs said:


> Will you need to be a previous customer to get in on the pre-order of can you be a new customer?


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## camfam

I suppose "Goldeneye" is a registered TM but maybe not for watches. 

How about a chronometer movement? Think big! It would make the watch much more of a standout from the crowd.

I would put the swiss cross on the crown (although Ken Sato did that).

A riveted bracelet is a must. Also, Ken Sato was able to source one (I think his even was expandable) for his big crown rolex hommage. However, having owned an original expandable, I wouldn't recommend it. 

You sure the originals were as thick as 13mm? My 5508 was really thin, but I know the big case ones were thicker. 

Good luck! It's looking good. 

Cam


----------



## SeikoSickness

*Re: Okay...*



Yao said:


> Ursula I am afraid will lose a lot in translation


Not to mention the legal issues from using her likeness....


----------



## Zidane

Hey Bill! I love the idea of the watch and the name. Any possibility of a bigger size though? 

Looks to be a little on the small side from what I'm used to wearing. I'm sure they'd be plenty who would buy a bigger size watch. Say around 42mm?


----------



## bjp

Zidane said:


> Hey Bill! I love the idea of the watch and the name. Any possibility of a bigger size though?
> 
> Looks to be a little on the small side from what I'm used to wearing. I'm sure they'd be plenty who would buy a bigger size watch. Say around 42mm?


Not to be a poo-poo, but there are GOBS of 42mm watches out there. That size is just too big to be true-to-form on this project, isn't it?

(besides, I've got a puny wrist that is longing for weakling-size-reasonable watches.......)

-ben


----------



## Docwein

*Great looking watch............................................. .......*

a suggestion for the name the "Quartermaster" diver.:-!


----------



## k7lro

Bill - what's the distance between the lugs? 20-mm? Apologies if I missed this info from an eariler post. :thanks


----------



## Dr. Robert

Yes...there are a lot of 42mm+ watches out there....and w/ long 49/50mm & up case lengths..................but not enough "old school" sized sport watches left!!!!!!!!!!
For those of us w/ smaller wrists... this "Bond" watch at 39-40mm and a 48mm case length is perfect...I won't buy one if it's larger! For those w/ bigger wrists, there's MKII's LRRP which can be done up in a milsub version...and that has a 42mm dia. and close to a 50mm case length.....perfect for the bigger boned guys!


----------



## giosdad

Dr. Robert said:


> Yes...there are a lot of 42mm+ watches out there....and w/ long 49/50mm & up case lengths..................but not enough "old school" sized sport watches left!!!!!!!!!!
> For those of us w/ smaller wrists... this "Bond" watch at 39-40mm and a 48mm case length is perfect...I won't buy one if it's larger! For those w/ bigger wrists, there's MKII's LRRP which can be done up in a milsub version...and that has a 42mm dia. and close to a 50mm case length.....perfect for the bigger boned guys!


I agree. I like this one at the current size. Though my sweet spot in watches has seemed to level out at 42mm. I think this design will work well at this size and be truer to the original. Though I am interested in what the original thickness was.


----------



## Donald Grant

Yeah, I mean what's the purpose of going to 42mm? I mean the whole point is to keep the look of the Connery Bond Submariner. You go bigger and you lose the intended look.

DG


----------



## Dr. Robert

I'm looking at my 1973 & 1974 Rolex Explorer II's (one was my father's) and it's diameter w/out crown & guards is about 39.5mm, case length 47.5mm long + or -. Height's about 12mm + or -. That should be classic 60's and 70's specs.And it looks good, has a good wrist presence. I also had a 1968 Rolex sub but it got stolen and I think it had the same specs as my Explorers.


----------



## Dr. Robert

I agree 100%. Well said.


----------



## Yao

Yes 20 mm.



k7lro said:


> Bill - what's the distance between the lugs? 20-mm? Apologies if I missed this info from an eariler post. :thanks


----------



## sschum

Regarding the height of the original watch: Here's a link to a for sale listing for a Rolex 6538 from 2002 by James Dowling, who knows a thing or two about Rolex. He lists the height of the 6538 at 15 mm. It's the 5th item down http://www.ukwatches.com/vigor2.htm

Cheers,

Scott


----------



## timbo

sschum said:


> Regarding the height of the original watch: Here's a link to a for sale listing for a Rolex 6538 from 2002 by James Dowling, who knows a thing or two about Rolex. He lists the height of the 6538 at 15 mm. It's the 5th item down http://www.ukwatches.com/vigor2.htm
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Scott


What's interesting is that if you look at a side shot of the 6538 is that the acrylic crystal 'juts' almost 3mm above the top of the bezel, which is obviously included in the total height of the original. The case of the 6538 is closer to 12 - 12.5 mm without crystal.

I don't know if the saphire crystal that Bill has in mind would be more flush with the bezel than the original acrylic. If so, it would probably be significantly thinner than 15mm, given the other proportions stay more or less true to the original.


----------



## yjfang

That would be great if the crystal sits a few mm's above the bezel. Love that look. Anxiously waiting! Joe F


----------



## Yao

Your estimate is about what I estimated as well. The case body of the current design is 12.50 mm tall not including the crystal. I am going to try to get the case mfg to make the crystal sit above the bezel...I don't think it will be an issue but it will take a little back and forth because that isn't the way normally watches are designed.



timbo said:


> What's interesting is that if you look at a side shot of the 6538 is that the acrylic crystal 'juts' almost 3mm above the top of the bezel, which is obviously included in the total height of the original. The case of the 6538 is closer to 12 - 12.5 mm without crystal.
> 
> I don't know if the saphire crystal that Bill has in mind would be more flush with the bezel than the original acrylic. If so, it would probably be significantly thinner than 15mm, given the other proportions stay more or less true to the original.


----------



## Yao

It will sit relatively high so I think you will be pleased with the look.



yjfang said:


> That would be great if the crystal sits a few mm's above the bezel. Love that look. Anxiously waiting! Joe F


----------



## gerard88t

*Re: Okay...*

PLEASE Bill, keep it a clean and simple Oyster back only! Please keep any extra distracting symbols or markings to a bare minimum (omitted is a better idea) so it homages the item it is meant to be, simply a timekeeper. I rather buy plain and simple with function and style in design, not tactless accoutrements, being the attraction of the watch.



Yao said:


> why don't I work on something simple/basic for the case back design as a fall back while you guys work out what might be more interesting. The island idea is nice. Ursula I am afraid will lose a lot in translation


----------



## gerard88t

Please NO!

Big watches are everywhere! I have a few. I will pay to have a wearable watch now, one closer to original size bond sub would be ideal.



Zidane said:


> Hey Bill! I love the idea of the watch and the name. Any possibility of a bigger size though?
> 
> Looks to be a little on the small side from what I'm used to wearing. I'm sure they'd be plenty who would buy a bigger size watch. Say around 42mm?


----------



## Yao

I did a two surveys over the last 4 weeks and the numbers came out that a sub 40 mm case was the most popular. Not enough people really wanted the exact original size of 37.5 but at the same time while there were a number of people interested in a 40+ mm their interest wasn't very strong. The sweet spot was right around 38-39 mm.

From a design perspective though I am somewhat relieved that the surveys came out the way that they did. A 42+ mm watch sounds like a good idea on paper but based on the mock-ups I have done its looks somewhat strange at that size. I think its because of the size of the dial at that diameter. The dial size makes will make the watch in real life wear bigger than its actual diameter would indicate.

At 39.3 mm its about as big as I can make it while still keep it in the spirit of the original. In addition the watch looks "right" at that diameter. Literally any larger and the proportions are all wrong up to 41.50 mm. To my eye the best diameters were 38.5 - 39.3 mm. I think its fortunate that the survey results ended up dove tailing with what ended up looking good as well. I was prepared to make a bigger watch had the survey results dictated so.



Zidane said:


> Hey Bill! I love the idea of the watch and the name. Any possibility of a bigger size though?
> 
> Looks to be a little on the small side from what I'm used to wearing. I'm sure they'd be plenty who would buy a bigger size watch. Say around 42mm?


----------



## jhobbs

I'm happy it is the size it is. It just wouldn't look correct any other way.


----------



## teeritz

Yao said:


> I like how your idea tells the story but "Caribbean" is a trademark of the Jenny family/Doxa SA. I don't know may be there is a way to tie in Baccarat into a caseback idea since it is how the movie opens?


Yes, that thought ocurred to me later, but I couldn't remember the brand. It _was _Jenny.
I was also thinking of "ShellDiver" as a name (since that's what Honey Rider is doing when Bond meets her), but, I dunno, it doesn't quite have that ring to it. Perhaps naming it after some exotic fish that's found only in the waters around Jamaica might be the go.

teeritz


----------



## Donald Grant

Will the bezel be unidirectional and ratcheted or non ratcheted and bi-directional spring friction as original?

DG


----------



## Graeme

Yao said:


> Great to see you here. When we get the design closer to finished I'd like to have you work up a 3D model for this project
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion for a logo :thanks


I look forward to it. :-!


----------



## Yao

That is yet to be decided actually. It doesn't affect the aesthetics or the cost so I didn't tackle that issue yet.



Donald Grant said:


> Will the bezel be unidirectional and ratcheted or non ratcheted and bi-directional spring friction as original?
> 
> DG


----------



## Yao

I saw those pics and used the in developing the side view. There were a better set of pics from a poster on TZ. They were better in that the case wasn't re-finished before. The one you listed below has been pretty heavily refinished. The bevel on top of the lugs is completely polished away.



timbo said:


> Exciting project Bill, I'm sure it will be a brilliant watch.
> 
> I found a pretty good link to some macro images of the 6538 from every angle, including nice side shots of the lugs:
> 
> 'Bond' Rolex 6538 Images
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the name Kingston - it isn't a direct a Bond reference which is appealing - names like 007, Bond, Fleming, Goldfinger etc. would just be too obvious.
> 
> On the bracelet front - I'm not too sure what the difference between oyster, flip-lock and riveted exactly are. I know that a Bond style Nato will be a popular strap for this watch, maybe you could include that as an option?
> 
> I think a Date option would broaden the appeal a bit. I know I find it useful, although I must admit I am not a huge fan of the traditional 3 o'clock placement - but that's me  That being said, I would probably order a dateless version if I ordered one today.
> 
> When you mention there are still issues to be ironed out on hand design, do you mean options? The ones you have in the wireframe above look pretty good - just like the original.
> 
> For the caseback - there is no reason we couldn't 'have our cake and eat it too' - a traditional Rolex oyster coin edge caseback combined with standard holes found on 'normal' non-Rolex watches. That way you'd have the neat rolex side profile, but could take the caseback off with normal tools (Debaufre does this).
> 
> As for bezel inserts, I think the option of having the minute hashes from 12 to 3 o'clock would be a good option. Also, it appears that the numbers on the 6538 insert are larger than the ones you have in the wireframe, that they go right to the edge of the insert. That might be a good option as well.
> 
> A crown signed MKII with 'Brevet' around the outer edge wouldn't hurt, either. (I don't know if Brevet is a trademark of Rolex, though...)
> 
> One thing I find appealing about the Bond watch is how chunky that 8mm Brevet crown looks. I wonder if making the watch diameter slightly larger than the original (39ish vs. original 37) would lessen that effect? Maybe a slight bump in crown diameter could keep that in proportion?
> 
> At any rate, I am really looking forward to the process, and the end result, of course. Thanks for involving everyone on this!


----------



## Traut

Count me in. Bond's official rank was Commander HRM Navy. How about calling it the Commander or Commander 7 as a suugestion?


----------



## Donald Grant

Not bad, I like the Commander idea.

DG


----------



## NWP627

Donald Grant said:


> Not bad, I like the Commander idea.
> 
> DG


SWI has a watch named the Commander - might be a problem.
N


----------



## Donald Grant

Sorry not familiar with SWI. Moreover, it depends on whether thay own the name "Commander" exclusively for watches.

DG


----------



## MDS

Hi Bill and everyone else.

Its been long time since I posted on WUS (actually more of a lurker anyway) but as I'm a big fan of Bill's watches - I own a Quad 10 and a Stingray - and this project looks very interesting, I figured I'd put my $0.02 in.

Case Size- while I probably would have prefered larger, I understand the design aethetics, and agree that 39 or 39.3 would be great (39.3 sounds better to me). I wonder if from looking at the drawing, if the lugs shouldn't be a tax longer, though...

Crown - perfect as is.

Dial - no date and gilt all the way, and I'm someone who usually prefers a date

Hands - gold or silver, but gold would probably look the best

Caseback - I'd prefer something simple, but the map of Jamaica would be cool.

Bracelet - not too hung up on it; whatever works

Name - I really like Kingston; seems to suit the watch very well.

Bond Connection - skip it, except for the name, provided the name is something subtle like Kingston. Omega's done the Bond thing to death. One of the things I like best about your watches is their simple elegance. This watch fits in well with your others so I'd prefer to skip the Bond stuff or to keep it to a minimum. 

Couple of final comments - for those that haven't owned an MKII, you won''t be disappointed. As others have noted, they are excellent. I am looking forward to owning more. 

And, along that line, Bill, I was wondering if you have any plans for a non dive watch in the near future. 

Best,

Mike


----------



## Marley1966

I found the following on a site about the history of the Submariner:

Early examples of the diving watch lacked the designation "Submariner" on the dial, and Rolex continued to patent a number of alternate monikers in 1953-54, including Deepsea, Frogman, Diver, Deep-Sea Diver, Skin Diver, Dive-O-Graph, and Swimproof.

It might be approppriate to use one of these!


----------



## Marley1966

Sicura also had a divers watch in the 60s called a Submarine. Done in the same font as Submariner, it would work from a homage point of view and is a cool name.


----------



## Zidane

Yao said:


> I did a two surveys over the last 4 weeks and the numbers came out that a sub 40 mm case was the most popular. Not enough people really wanted the exact original size of 37.5 but at the same time while there were a number of people interested in a 40+ mm their interest wasn't very strong. The sweet spot was right around 38-39 mm.
> 
> From a design perspective though I am somewhat relieved that the surveys came out the way that they did. A 42+ mm watch sounds like a good idea on paper but based on the mock-ups I have done its looks somewhat strange at that size. I think its because of the size of the dial at that diameter. The dial size makes will make the watch in real life wear bigger than its actual diameter would indicate.
> 
> At 39.3 mm its about as big as I can make it while still keep it in the spirit of the original. In addition the watch looks "right" at that diameter. Literally any larger and the proportions are all wrong up to 41.50 mm. To my eye the best diameters were 38.5 - 39.3 mm. I think its fortunate that the survey results ended up dove tailing with what ended up looking good as well. I was prepared to make a bigger watch had the survey results dictated so.


Thanks for the response Bill. I must have missed the surveys. 
I'm all for having the right proportions for the watch. I'm just a bigger guy and generally I feel like watches <41-42 wear too small for me.

The last watch that I had that was that small was an Omega Speedmaster Automatic. Great watch, just a little on the small side.

I'm excited about the watch though. I hope it wears much bigger than 39! :-!


----------



## andrewb

Love the dimensions 15mm thick would certainly give it a presence, the domed crystal, the gilt / yellow gold trim, love it! Oh and the crown, 8mm!, this is going to be some piece. The name is spot on , put the words Circle Y and AUTOMATIC on the back and ship it with bracelet and NATO straps as standard , where do i sign up?


----------



## bullitt731

This project looks like it is well on it's way to becoming a great time piece. 

I absolutely agree with Bill regarding the correct proportions, and case size. 

Keep the dial as CLEAN as possible.

This watch definately deserves a very high quality bracelet as well.

How about calling it the MKII - MI6.

I may even buy two of these; DONE DEAL!!!!!


----------



## timbo

Yao said:


> I saw those pics and used the in developing the side view. There were a better set of pics from a poster on TZ. They were better in that the case wasn't re-finished before. The one you listed below has been pretty heavily refinished. The bevel on top of the lugs is completely polished away.


You're right! Here's some more pics from another site of an unpolished case at a bunch of angles:

Unpolished 6538


----------



## Rob T

How about a depth rating too?


----------



## Rob T

Bill

This is a terrific project! I own 3 vintage Subs (1 Rolex and 2 Tudors, but none the "no crownguard" models) and just love the simplicity and proportions of the design. Just cannot be beat IMHO!

A couple of thoughts on the project that you should feel free to ignore:

In general, I would love to see it kept as close to the original as possible! I just think the original Rolex Sub got it right in so many ways.

Size - If there is still room for adjustment there from the posted specs - I would definately urge smaller - the original 37mm would be really a nice size and would help differentiate it from all the hunky chunky steel lumps around today (and the whole "big watch" thing is sooo last year, don't you know). 

Dial - The dial looks great - love the guilt minute track and mix of white/gilt lettering. Perhaps a depth rating on the dial?

Name - Love the name "Kingston". Some alternatives - "Skin-diver" or "Aqua-Lung" perhaps.

Hands - the Rolex style Mercedes hour and minute hands as shown are great. In gold would be nice.

For the crown - love the 8mm, and think "Brevet" around the outside and with a Swiss "+" in the center of the crown would look great (Brevet = french for Patent. Definately not a copyrights issue to use this. I have an old Doxa watch with "Brevet" stamped on the back).

Bracelet - I am going to be wearing this puppy with an 18mm "Bond" NATO - just like the Man himself. But a Rivet style Oyster bracelet would be nice for dress-up occasions.

Bezel insert - Elapsed minutes as shown is great, Perhaps a red triangle??

Case back - My preference would be just a sterile domed polished back, much like the original.

Again, this is a wonderful project, I've been waiting for this one for a long time! I look forward to seeing the evolution of this design.

Cheers,

Rob.


----------



## gerard88t

Hi Rob

I feel we are on the same page but a lot of what we want is not going to happen according to some of the set in stone dimensions. At least you got your sub and can enjoy those qualities now. I'm happy for guys like you. Me, I am shopping for a homage like Bills related to - I don't have a real sub at this time, and the affordable factor is not the problem for me, but the originality of a Rolex sub can only be 100% guaranteed with a Rolex AD and a new watch, and I prefer vintage. This is why I really wanted to get a near original design element from this MKII watch so I can get a brand new watch with the old school feel.



Rob T said:


> Bill
> 
> This is a terrific project! I own 3 vintage Subs (1 Rolex and 2 Tudors, but none the "no crownguard" models) and just love the simplicity and proportions of the design. Just cannot be beat IMHO!
> 
> A couple of thoughts on the project that you should feel free to ignore:
> 
> In general, I would love to see it kept as close to the original as possible! I just think the original Rolex Sub got it right in so many ways.
> 
> Size - If there is still room for adjustment there from the posted specs - I would definately urge smaller - the original 37mm would be really a nice size and would help differentiate it from all the hunky chunky steel lumps around today (and the whole "big watch" thing is sooo yesterday, don't you know).
> 
> Dial - The dial looks great - love the guilt minute track and mix of white/gilt lettering. Perhaps a depth rating on the dial?
> 
> Name - Love the name "Kingston". Some alternatives - "Skin-diver" or "Aqua-Lung" perhaps.
> 
> Hands - the Rolex style Mercedes hour and minute hands as shown are great. In gold would be nice.
> 
> For the crown - love the 8mm, and think "Brevet" with a Swiss "+" in the middle would look great (Brevet = french for Patent. Definately not a copyrights issue to use this. I have an old Doxa watch with "Brevet" stamped on the back).
> 
> Bracelet - I am going to be wearing this puppy with an 18mm "Bond" NATO - just like the Man himself. But a Rivet style Oyster bracelet would be nice for dress-up occasions.
> 
> Bezel insert - Elapsed minutes as shown is great, Perhaps a red triangle??
> 
> Case back - My preference would be just a domed polished back, again, just like the original.
> 
> Again, this is a wonderful project, I've been waiting for this one for a long time! I look forward to seeing the evolution of this design.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rob.


----------



## esantelli

Bill 
Great design as usual
One question are you able to create a thin border around the luminous dots it seems to add depth, ie lume dot fine black line of dial surrounded by white/tan circle.
Some of the images of the original suggest this appearance it may be optical illusion or result of aging to the lume, nonetheless it looks very cool
I do like the idea of aged lume tan color
eds


----------



## Rafael_T

*I love the Kingston name.*

When is the Pre-order opening?


----------



## Yao

*Re: I love the Kingston name.*



Rafael_T said:


> When is the Pre-order opening?


Hopefully later today.


----------



## giosdad

*Re: I love the Kingston name.*



Yao said:


> Hopefully later today.


Can you announce the pre-ordering opening here when it is ready? It might also save you answering this question a few times. :-d We do become anxious when a new project is afoot.


----------



## Yao

*Re: I love the Kingston name.*

Will do. I will also open a thread to take questions about the pre-order "structure" as it will be a little different than I normally run the pre-order.



giosdad said:


> Can you announce the pre-ordering opening here when it is ready? It might also save you answering this question a few times. :-d We do become anxious when a new project is afoot.


----------



## roadkingrider

*Re: I love the Kingston name.*

It has been said that "a sick mind is a terrible thing to waste." Anyway, I wanted to post some additional "subtle" name ideas: How about.........................................

*Queens Club Sub*, (the club where Strangways was murdered) or
_*W6N Sub*_ (this was 006's-Strangways radio call sign), or
_*G7W Sub*_ (this was Universal Export's radio call sign in London), or 
*Universal Export* _*Sub, *_or
_*Crab Key Sub*_, or my favorite name the
_*Puss Feller.*_

By the way _*Kingston *_is a great name and I am going to pre-order one just as soon the order link goes live.


----------



## Rob T

Another thought for the name:

"Whitehall" - used to refer to the British government and/or senior ministers - including the Foreign Office.

Rob


----------



## Yao

*I noted your suggestions...*

and we will put them to a vote later on.


----------



## Rob T

*Re: I noted your suggestions...*



Yao said:


> and we will put them to a vote later on.


Thanks Bill - more than I could have hoped for.

Again, I think this is a great project. I think I have an old "reproduction" Rivet Oyster bracelet I'd be happy to donate to the effort if it would be helpful for some reverse engineering (assuming folks think a Rivet Oyster is a possibility).

Rob.


----------



## isochronous

What about:
*Streamertail* (a bird mentioned in the first sentences of Ian Flemmings For Your Eyes only, "the most beautiful bird in Jamaica")


----------



## Dr. Robert

Hey mon...............I like "Kingston", monb-).............also birthplace of reggae..........long live Bob Marley.:-!


----------



## es335

Love it! 

However, I would recommend not printing "Kingston" on the dial. Keep it minimalist. If you need to print "Kingston" - slap it on the case back, instead, were it won't sully the dial.


----------



## Donald Grant

W6N, W6N, calling G7W, how do you hear me? You guys are on the Bond ball!

I like a number of the names proffered here including Kingston, Commander, Frogman, Skin Diver, Queens Club and Puss Feller, which is slang for octopus. Aqua Lung is cool too, but I think Blancpain owns that one.

I also would like the smaller case size befitting the original, but I get that the surveys pointed toward the slightly bigger case.

Some other names that I think should be considered are:

Scuba Diver, Scubadiver

Scuba

Scuba Gear, Scubagear

UNIVEX (Universal Export as someone else said)

Carribean (although Ollech Wajs may own that one)

Jamaican

Caymen Islander

Commander Jamaica (If memory serves, the tentative name for a Bond TV
show)

Vulcan Diver, Vulcandiver (Thunderball Vulcan Bomber)



DG


----------



## siggy

This project is off to a great start and I'm just catching up on the posts.
A quick couple of points first, how domed is the crystal going to be, an even dome like most sapphire crystals or something really special like an old super domed acrylic, the sort of sapphire crystals used in the retro designs of Blancpain and Panerai?

Given the height of this watch, I think it will be easy to bring the watch in at the smaller end of the stated range and it will still keep it's wrist presence. It could even be brought down to the original size, I just don't know how many people who took the survey knew how thick the original was?

regards

siggy


----------



## Yao

I really like UNIVEX but it may come too close to infringing on copyrights. I am not sure how this is treated with regards to books/movies. In any event I think that we should agree that to pay homage one should draw a bright-line rule that we aren't in any way infringing or possibly infringing on the rights holders' intellectual property. I personally want them to keep making money so that they can keep making movies 

Sorry don't mean to be a wet blanket but thought it should be noted. ;-)

I noted down the suggestions I am pretty sure are available. For example you are correct that Carribean is taken, as is Aqua Lung. Vulcan I am sorry to say is probably also off the table because it is too close to Vulcain the watch company.



Donald Grant said:


> W6N, W6N, calling G7W, how do you hear me? You guys are on the Bond ball!
> 
> I like a number of the names proffered here including Kingston, Commander, Frogman, Skin Diver, Queens Club and Puss Feller, which is slang for octopus. Aqua Lung is cool too, but I think Blancpain owns that one.
> 
> I also would like the smaller case size befitting the original, but I get that the surveys pointed toward the slightly bigger case.
> 
> Some other names that I think should be considered are:
> 
> Scuba Diver, Scubadiver
> 
> Scuba
> 
> Scuba Gear, Scubagear
> 
> UNIVEX (Universal Export as someone else said)
> 
> Carribean (although Ollech Wajs may own that one)
> 
> Jamaican
> 
> Caymen Islander
> 
> Commander Jamaica (If memory serves, the tentative name for a Bond TV
> show)
> 
> Vulcan Diver, Vulcandiver (Thunderball Vulcan Bomber)
> 
> DG


----------



## Yao

its one of those things....I think the second line of text will really give you the feel of the original. However I will list that as an option for vote "No name, just the depth rating" and we will see if its got legs :-d



es335 said:


> Love it!
> 
> However, I would recommend not printing "Kingston" on the dial. Keep it minimalist. If you need to print "Kingston" - slap it on the case back, instead, were it won't sully the dial.


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

Wow, I check back and the place goes from a lonely sub-division with one or two model homes to a bustling metropolis!

I read all the posts to make sure I was up to speed, and here's my $0.02 USD:

Overall, keep it focused on a slightly upsized vesion of the 6538. A lot of the requests seemed to end up being for what would essentially be a custom or MilSub LRRP.
Name - keep it at Kingston, your first instinct was right. On the dial would be fine, as long as it is no busier than the original. No more overt Bond naming, nor call signs - it's all been done before. Kingston is subtle, unique, yet ties directly to the story.
Dial - keep the no-date version gilt. I saw something about yellow printing, but I thought the original gilt dials were gold printed, with gold circle and triangle outlines around the indices - I'd stick with matching that. Using white printing for the date version would be cool, but I'll probably only be able to order the non-date myself.
Size - my vote was for the 39mm, a nice compromise between keeping it discreetly sized like the orignial, yet accomodating our current taste for larger watches than in the 1950s. But for the record, I could STILL wear the original 37.3mm and be happy. If I want a 42mm, I'll order the LRRP - which I did.
Bezel and insert - stay true to the original. Unidirectional if you want, but no visual changes please.
Bracelet - is there a way to make it LOOK pretty much like the riveted, yet not actually make it with riveted construction?
Crown - use your MkII logo if you can.
Case back - is there a way to use the same Rolex Oyster style case back as the original? Any engraving should be NOT overtly Bond, and I for one would be fine with none.
One final request, if you do a strap option specific for this model, make it either in a long option as well as regular, or make the one size at least 205mm long.

Whew - thanks!:-d

JOHN


----------



## Donald Grant

siggy said:


> This project is off to a great start and I'm just catching up on the posts.
> A quick couple of points first, how domed is the crystal going to be, an even dome like most sapphire crystals or something really special like an old super domed acrylic, the sort of sapphire crystals used in the retro designs of Blancpain and Panerai?
> 
> Given the height of this watch, I think it will be easy to bring the watch in at the smaller end of the stated range and it will still keep it's wrist presence. It could even be brought down to the original size, I just don't know how many people who took the survey knew how thick the original was?
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


I'm right there with you. I like the smaller size. The thick case and crystal along with the un-cluttered dial and bezel insert has enough presence. The modern touches, if any, should be unseen. Like having a ratcheted unidirectional bezel. However, I'm not the captain of this ship. Mr. Yao is the shot caller.

DG


----------



## apnk

Wow, I like totally agree with Jonhy.b-)


----------



## es335

Yao said:


> its one of those things....I think the second line of text will really give you the feel of the original. However I will list that as an option for vote "No name, just the depth rating" and we will see if its got legs :-d


Hi Mr Yao,

What is the expected price and delivery date? I'm assuming at least a year from now?


----------



## Yao

The number of people interested in the original 37.5 mm size was very small. A lot of the additional height will be crystal so I expect that while the overall right now is about 14.50 mm I suspect it won't wear as tall as that. I thought about using a retro design crystal like you noted but I believe that it would dramatically increase the price of the project. I think making the crystal thicker than it needs to be will still keep the vintage feel without ratcheting up the price.



siggy said:


> This project is off to a great start and I'm just catching up on the posts.
> A quick couple of points first, how domed is the crystal going to be, an even dome like most sapphire crystals or something really special like an old super domed acrylic, the sort of sapphire crystals used in the retro designs of Blancpain and Panerai?
> 
> Given the height of this watch, I think it will be easy to bring the watch in at the smaller end of the stated range and it will still keep it's wrist presence. It could even be brought down to the original size, I just don't know how many people who took the survey knew how thick the original was?
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


----------



## Donald Grant

Yao said:


> I really like UNIVEX but it may come too close to infringing on copyrights. I am not sure how this is treated with regards to books/movies. In any event I think that we should agree that to pay homage one should draw a bright-line rule that we aren't in any way infringing or possibly infringing on the rights holders' intellectual property. I personally want them to keep making money so that they can keep making movies
> 
> Sorry don't mean to be a wet blanket but thought it should be noted. ;-)
> 
> I noted down the suggestions I am pretty sure are available. For example you are correct that Carribean is taken, as is Aqua Lung. Vulcan I am sorry to say is probably also off the table because it is too close to Vulcain the watch company.


I don't think you are being a wet blanket at all. I'm happy that you are giving us a say in how the Bond homage is built. I'm just running stuff up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes it. I think it also serves to get other people's creative juices flowing. I think this is a very cool project that a lot of people will want. Thanks again for taking it on.

DG


----------



## Yao

Let me get the ordering page up and you guys will let me know what you think of the offer.

The delivery date will essentially depend upon how fast we can close up the design phase. If I were to do this myself without input I could have a sample by Baselworld and probably finish production by September. The LRRP for example is taking longer because its more technically complicated and has a lot of custom options. Doing a watch with only one dial option and/or bezel insert option is easy by comparision  So I think we can have a watch ready for delivery before year end as I would like to finish up the design phase by the end of February when I expect to be knee deep in LRRP deliveries.



es335 said:


> Hi Mr Yao,
> 
> What is the expected price and delivery date? I'm assuming at least a year from now?


----------



## Yao

Okay. :-! I like the spirit that you are approaching this with. By all means let's just see what sticks. 



Donald Grant said:


> I don't think you are being a wet blanket at all. I'm happy that you are giving us a say in how the Bond homage is built. I'm just running stuff up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes it. I think it also serves to get other people's creative juices flowing. I think this is a very cool project that a lot of people will want. Thanks again for taking it on.
> 
> DG


----------



## NWP627

_
"I think we can have a watch ready for delivery before year end." _

Fantastic, let's hope nothing comes between us and that timetable.
N


----------



## Steve356

This looks like a winner. Will this be a 28mm dial or a 32mm dial? a 32mm dial would be really nice IMHO. a slightly larger case, say 40-41mm would be great too, as long as we can keep the lugs short at 47-48mm or so. 
I like the name btw, mon. :-d


----------



## k7lro

NWP627 said:


> _"I think we can have a watch ready for delivery before year end." _
> 
> Fantastic, let's hope nothing comes between us and that timetable.
> N


Plus 1. Keep it simple, as close to the original as possible and uncluttered from the design of the dial to the back of the case.


----------



## colinman.77

I like the way this is going. I would like to add my vote for the date dial to have gilt printing though. 
One more vote for keeping the name as Kingston. It just fits.


----------



## Marley1966

Name suggestion:

Island Diver

Kind of works for me!


----------



## siggy

colinman.77 said:


> I like the way this is going. I would like to add my vote for the date dial to have gilt printing though.
> One more vote for keeping the name as Kingston. It just fits.


Yep, gilt printing and hands are the way to go, a gorgeous "rose" gold sort of gilt.

I know this one is a Tudor but the aesthetics are the same and this one has the right mix of colours that looks better than any Rolex I've seen. Aim for something like below and I don't see anyone will be disappointed, gloss dial, lume colour, oversized minute hand dot.

When you come to making the dial and hand options put a choice just like the pic below and I'm sure it will be a winner, I wish I'd bought the original when It was sold by James Dowling ( his pic) :-d


----------



## Marley1966

With regard to the dial, will you be using white Luminova, or 'aged' yellow lume? The Goldfinger watch, despite not being that old when the film was made, had yellowed tritium.


----------



## Yao

*Lume color will be put up to a vote....*

I normally shy away from tinted lume but since this is a LE I am willing go that route if that's what the group feels strongly about.

Given that also I am pretty sure we are going to do a second dial just so that we can offer an alternative.



Marley1966 said:


> With regard to the dial, will you be using white Luminova, or 'aged' yellow lume? The Goldfinger watch, despite not being that old when the film was made, had yellowed tritium.


----------



## Yao

The gilt printing is the one thing that I think will be the most challenging. I am going to see if my dial mfg is able to print using an older method that will be a better match for the original dial.



siggy said:


> Yep, gilt printing and hands are the way to go, a gorgeous "rose" gold sort of gilt.
> 
> I know this one is a Tudor but the aesthetics are the same and this one has the right mix of colours that looks better than any Rolex I've seen. Aim for something like below and I don't see anyone will be disappointed, gloss dial, lume colour, oversized minute hand dot.
> 
> When you come to making the dial and hand options put a choice just like the pic below and I'm sure it will be a winner, I wish I'd bought the original when It was sold by James Dowling ( his pic) :-d


----------



## Rob T

*Re: Project Kingston - Size Issue*



Yao said:


> The number of people interested in the original 37.5 mm size was very small. A lot of the additional height will be crystal so I expect that while the overall right now is about 14.50 mm I suspect it won't wear as tall as that. I thought about using a retro design crystal like you noted but I believe that it would dramatically increase the price of the project. I think making the crystal thicker than it needs to be will still keep the vintage feel without ratcheting up the price.


Would it be possible to revisit the "size" issue once some of the other design details are firmed up - and the pre-orders are in?

It could be that the folks more committed to the project might have a different preference to the broader survey participants. Anyway might be worth "running up the flagpole" one more time.

BTW - just put in my pre-order. I'm not afraid of commitment!

Cheers,

Rob.


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: Project Kingston - Size Issue*

At this point I think the reasons for the chosen size are well documented and legitimate. As this is supposed to be an homage to the Bond watch it should try to stay accurate. It's already bigger, but to expand it by 5mm or even more seems to fly in the face of the spirit of the watch. Also, as has been noted before the Mil Sub would be a great option for those looking for a larger watch. I think it's sweet to have a watch closer to 40mm, it will fit more people than a significantly larger watch.


----------



## Yao

*The size has to be set from ...*

the beginning...otherwise too many people will sit on the sidelines and the project will flounder. I took the survey about the size of the watch so that it could be pre-determined. If for some reason the pre-orders don't come in like I expect then I will revisit the issue but so far it doesn't look like that will be required.



Rob T said:


> Would it be possible to revisit the "size" issue once some of the other design details are firmed up - and the pre-orders are in?
> 
> It could be that the folks more committed to the project might have a different preference to the broader survey participants. Anyway might be worth "running up the flagpole" one more time.
> 
> BTW - just put in my pre-order. I'm not afraid of commitment!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rob.


----------



## Yao

*Also the other issue is that.....*

The older watches like the 6538 and say the IWC Mk XI tend to be longer than many modern designs. This means that when you try to scale it up you usually get a watch that is much longer than you want even though you are at the desired diameter. The QUAD10 had that issue. The diameter was right but the watch was just too long for most.

If I scaled up this watch to something in the 40-42 mm range it won't be big enough for those that want a larger watch but the watch will be too long for those that are happy with the diameter. Its another reason why I didn't make the diameter bigger. If I make the diameter bigger but shorten the watch it just wouldn't have the same aesthetic any more.



MatKid152 said:


> At this point I think the reasons for the chosen size are well documented and legitimate. As this is supposed to be an homage to the Bond watch it should try to stay accurate. It's already bigger, but to expand it by 5mm or even more seems to fly in the face of the spirit of the watch. Also, as has been noted before the Mil Sub would be a great option for those looking for a larger watch. I think it's sweet to have a watch closer to 40mm, it will fit more people than a significantly larger watch.


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: Also the other issue is that.....*

Works for me.


----------



## Steve356

Did the originals have glossy/shiny dials? if yes, is that something that is possible today without making it too glossy-dressy-looking?


----------



## sschum

Size is perfect -- it hits the sweet-spot between modern sensbilities, while still keeping the feeling of the original. :-!


----------



## johnny B

Yao said:


> The gilt printing is the one thing that I think will be the most challenging. I am going to see if my dial mfg is able to print using an older method that will be a better match for the original dial.


Bill The project looks amazing so far!!

Two comments suggestions regarding the details so far

1)While I agree with the 2 line option regarding the script, and with an earlier suggestion that Automatic is not very appealing for this project
maybe instead of the name *Kingston*, You can take a cue from the Tudor dial in your earlier post and print *"self-winding"* as the second line. It rings a little more classic in terminology and is appropriate considering the lineage.

2) While the standard mercedes type hand set is the unquestionable choice, If you look closely at the 6538 and 7924 tudor above, they use the "Big Bubble" style second hand, which , if i am not wrong, is remarkably similar, if not identical to the Sub XL second hand you use on the Bund variant of the Seafighter model.

While it is a small difference, i think the larger second hand can really add to the project.

Either way I'm on board!!!

Well done Bill!!!

Regards

John


----------



## Rob T

*Re: The size has to be set from ...*



Yao said:


> the beginning...otherwise too many people will sit on the sidelines and the project will flounder. I took the survey about the size of the watch so that it could be pre-determined. If for some reason the pre-orders don't come in like I expect then I will revisit the issue but so far it doesn't look like that will be required.


No worries - I can absolutely understand you have to have some certianty with the project parameters so as to get traction and to avoid constantly churning the design.

Cheers,

Rob.


----------



## rcarbonetti

Hi Bill, I like the dial of the watch as shown in the illustration with one change. I think the word "automatic" could be deleted/not used. Upon viewing pictures of the original 6538 this would make the watch a very close hommage of the watch. Keep the name " Kingston" as it suits the watch and ties in with James Bond without going overboard. 
I look forward to receiving my watch, maybe # 007 of 300, 006 of 300 would be great too.


----------



## Duarte

One suggestion for those who would like the fixed bars option, steel spring bars, w/o flange, with a 20mm center section will fit in, but cannot be removed without cutting the spring bar. Instant fixed bars, with no irreversible modifications. The best of both worlds. :-!


----------



## NWP627

*Re: Lume color will be put up to a vote....*



Yao said:


> I normally shy away from tinted lume but since this is a LE I am willing go that route if that's what the group feels strongly about.
> 
> Given that also I am pretty sure we are going to do a second dial just so that we can offer an alternative.


Love the way you think Bill. This is shaping up to be a beautiful watch. My deposit is in and I would like to know if we will get to pick serial numbers? If so I would like 013/300.
N


----------



## gerard88t

Duarte said:


> One suggestion for those who would like the fixed bars option, steel spring bars, w/o flange, with a 20mm center section will fit in, but cannot be removed without cutting the spring bar. Instant fixed bars, with no irreversible modifications. The best of both worlds. :-!


Hi Duarte
That's a great idea but if the lugs are drilled couldn't one get the tight spring bars out without having to cut? I believe the piece is getting drilled lugs, correct? 
By the way I tried to put my order in at the site and after it initially accepted the order info, it changed with the submission button I clicked and disorganized a lot of the lines of my info, then when I clicked on history it says I have no order with the site. It also changed my username and password to this crazy number-letter combo with a super long lettered password I had to copy and paste to get into the account part of mkii's website. Anyone else have an issue with preorder?


----------



## Duarte

gerard88t said:


> Hi Duarte
> That's a great idea but if the lugs are drilled couldn't one get the tight spring bars out without having to cut? I believe the piece is getting drilled lugs, correct?
> By the way I tried to put my order in at the site and after it initially accepted the order info, it changed with the submission button I clicked and disorganized a lot of the lines of my info, then when I clicked on history it says I have no order with the site. It also changed my username and password to this crazy number-letter combo with a super long lettered password I had to copy and paste to get into the account part of mkii's website. Anyone else have an issue with preorder?


Oops, I missed the part about drilled lugs in my excitement. o|


----------



## tallguy

Woo hoo! I'm in! Just paid my deposit....what a great project

I've recently sold everything but my G-Shock in order to help get my visa balance back down to 3 figures; this is just the project/incentive/reward I need to stay on track and not buy anything for a while. Should have reached my goal by the time this baby is delivered!:-!:-!:-!


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

*Re: Lume color will be put up to a vote....*



Yao said:


> I normally shy away from tinted lume but since this is a LE I am willing go that route if that's what the group feels strongly about.
> 
> Given that also I am pretty sure we are going to do a second dial just so that we can offer an alternative.


Again, I still think your first instincts were on target Bill. I'd just stay with whatever the original 6538 looked like coming out of the case. My SWAG would be that it originally was white with a slight greenish yellow undertone to it - in other words, new minted tritium lume. If you do some other tint, let it be available as an option, then everyone's happy.

I think I better nip over and put in a deposit today.

JOHN


----------



## k7lro

I hope no one has missed the extras that Bill is including with the watch. From his site:

*Watch will ship with a full complement of spare parts including 
* Second bracelet as a spare

* Gasket kit

* Spare case body complete with crown, case tube, crystal and bezel (please note that this does not include a movement ring or second case back. These parts are available at no charge to you if you send your original parts back for exchange should you need to perform a repair)

* Spare dial and handset (if there is more than one dial/hand set option available your spare set can be different from that installed on your watch.)*

I know that his other watches also came in a kit but I don't recall if he included this level of spares with his other models. All I recall is the springbar tool and maybe a spare band? Anyone?


----------



## timbo

johnny B said:


> Bill The project looks amazing so far!!
> 
> 2) While the standard mercedes type hand set is the unquestionable choice, If you look closely at the 6538 and 7924 tudor above, they use the "Big Bubble" style second hand, which , if i am not wrong, is remarkably similar, if not identical to the Sub XL second hand you use on the Bund variant of the Seafighter model.


I think you're right about the second hand, John. Here's another image:










About the lume - I'd vote for a slightly tea-coloured, aged looking lume as well. Nothing drastic, just a yellowy tint. I think the colour would work well with the gilt/yellow outer index ring.

Are the hands going to be gilt, or silver? Sorry if we've already discussed that, I can't seem to find it.


----------



## tallguy

JDS (Ohio) said:


> Wow, I check back and the place goes from a lonely sub-division with one or two model homes to a bustling metropolis!
> 
> I read all the posts to make sure I was up to speed, and here's my $0.02 USD:
> 
> Overall, keep it focused on a slightly upsized vesion of the 6538. A lot of the requests seemed to end up being for what would essentially be a custom or MilSub LRRP.
> Name - keep it at Kingston, your first instinct was right. On the dial would be fine, as long as it is no busier than the original. No more overt Bond naming, nor call signs - it's all been done before. Kingston is subtle, unique, yet ties directly to the story.
> Dial - keep the no-date version gilt. I saw something about yellow printing, but I thought the original gilt dials were gold printed, with gold circle and triangle outlines around the indices - I'd stick with matching that. Using white printing for the date version would be cool, but I'll probably only be able to order the non-date myself.
> Size - my vote was for the 39mm, a nice compromise between keeping it discreetly sized like the orignial, yet accomodating our current taste for larger watches than in the 1950s. But for the record, I could STILL wear the original 37.3mm and be happy. If I want a 42mm, I'll order the LRRP - which I did.
> Bezel and insert - stay true to the original. Unidirectional if you want, but no visual changes please.
> Bracelet - is there a way to make it LOOK pretty much like the riveted, yet not actually make it with riveted construction?
> Crown - use your MkII logo if you can.
> Case back - is there a way to use the same Rolex Oyster style case back as the original? Any engraving should be NOT overtly Bond, and I for one would be fine with none.
> One final request, if you do a strap option specific for this model, make it either in a long option as well as regular, or make the one size at least 205mm long.
> 
> Whew - thanks!:-d
> 
> JOHN


Thanks to John, I don't have to add my input.....DITTO ALL OF THE ABOVE!:thanks
(and +1 for the aged lume!)


----------



## MatKid152

Although I see the reason behind having the lume look aged, I think it would kind of be weird to have a brand new looking case with a aged looking dial. If you look at Bond's watch it's obviously seen use all the way around. I think the "Kingston" should aim to physically recreate the watch accurately, but getting that aged patina should be up to you. Kind of like buying a pair of jeans and wearing them in yourself...infinitely better than buying pre-distressed ones.


----------



## tallguy

MatKid152 said:


> Although I see the reason behind having the lume look aged, I think it would kind of be weird to have a brand new looking case with a aged looking dial. If you look at Bond's watch it's obviously seen use all the way around. I think the "Kingston" should aim to physically recreate the watch accurately, but getting that aged patina should be up to you. Kind of like buying a pair of jeans and wearing them in yourself...infinitely better than buying pre-distressed ones.


Good point!:-!


----------



## k7lro

MatKid152 said:


> Although I see the reason behind having the lume look aged, I think it would kind of be weird to have a brand new looking case with a aged looking dial. If you look at Bond's watch it's obviously seen use all the way around. I think the "Kingston" should aim to physically recreate the watch accurately, but getting that aged patina should be up to you. Kind of like buying a pair of jeans and wearing them in yourself...infinitely better than buying pre-distressed ones.


Damn right - you own it, age it the old fashion way.


----------



## Yao

You are correct. Since this is an LE I thought this was a good way to reward the guys that would get this project off and running.



k7lro said:


> I hope no one has missed the extras that Bill is including with the watch. From his site:
> 
> *Watch will ship with a full complement of spare parts including
> * Second bracelet as a spare
> 
> * Gasket kit
> 
> * Spare case body complete with crown, case tube, crystal and bezel (please note that this does not include a movement ring or second case back. These parts are available at no charge to you if you send your original parts back for exchange should you need to perform a repair)
> 
> * Spare dial and handset (if there is more than one dial/hand set option available your spare set can be different from that installed on your watch.)*
> 
> I know that his other watches also came in a kit but I don't recall if he included this level of spares with his other models. All I recall is the springbar tool and maybe a spare band? Anyone?


----------



## k7lro

Yao said:


> You are correct. Since this is an LE I thought this was a good way to reward the guys that would get this project off and running.


Well, I have to say that I think it's a heck of a reward. I am impressed.


----------



## GraniteQuarry

Thieuster said:


> Engraved back with the 'look through the barrel of a rifle' swirls. (Don't know how to put that down in correct English). Anyway, without the Bond figure in the middle. On the position of the Bond figure: the MKII logo with the #of the watch, starting with #001 perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Menno


Exactly what i'd suggest - rifled barrel with MKII in the middle ??

Away to try find some more ideas for names...


----------



## tallguy

GraniteQuarry said:


> Away to try find some more ideas for names...


Judging by the comments so far, looks like Kingston is gonna stick when the poll rolls around|>


----------



## GraniteQuarry

tallguy said:


> Judging by the comments so far, looks like Kingston is gonna stick when the poll rolls around|>


Yup you're right, and having spent the last 20 mins reading up on Bond/Fleming i think it's the BEST choice... Not overtly connected to Bond, and gives the Caribbean feel. Defo winner. :-!

I'd also like to echo a few ideas already posted -

*Dial - nice and simple: Mkii logo top, Kingston and depth rating at the bottom (no need for automatic)

Caseback - plain like the old Subs: just serial number and Mkii logo/company name in subtle size*

Overall, just nice and CLEAN. ;-)

Otherwise, i reckon it looks perfecto as it is.


----------



## Rob T

GraniteQuarry said:


> Yup you're right, and having spent the last 20 mins reading up on Bond/Fleming i think it's the BEST choice... Not overtly connected to Bond, and gives the Caribbean feel. Defo winner. :-!
> 
> I'd also like to echo a few ideas already posted -
> 
> *Dial - nice and simple: Mkii logo top, Kingston and depth rating at the bottom (no need for automatic)*
> 
> *Caseback - plain like the old Subs: just serial number and Mkii logo/company name in subtle size*
> 
> Overall, just nice and CLEAN. ;-)
> 
> Otherwise, i reckon it looks perfecto as it is.


Yep - I agree - Nice and clean. Less clutter, and closer to the original would help maintain the theme.

Also agree that, so far, I have not heard a better name suggested than "Kingston" (even prefer it over the couple ideas I had to be honest!)

On the caseback - how about sterile polished with the Serial # stamped in deep in the middle, like the old hand-stamped issue numbers on the Military issued watches, such as the MOD Divers, French NM Tudors, and Polish BP's?

Cheers,

Rob.


----------



## GraniteQuarry

Rob T said:


> On the caseback - how about sterile polished with the Serial # stamped in deep, like the old hand-stamped issue numbers on the Millitary issued watches, MOD Divers, or Polish BP's?


That's a VERY good idea Rob, real vintage style :-!


----------



## Donald Grant

The Connery Bond Submariner did not have the big bubble seconds hand. If you want the look of Connery's Sub, you have to reference pictures of it, not just any 6538 or "big crown". The whole point of this homage is to get accurate details of the Connery Bond Submariner.

DG


----------



## lysanderxiii

Thieuster said:


> And if it's a trademark of Rolex, then there's always the option of a crown signed 'MKII'. I think that's a bold statement too!
> 
> Menno


"Bevet" means "Patented" It would be kind of hard to patent or trademark the word "patented"


----------



## colinman.77

I'm down with slightly yellowed lume. Nothing too drastic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but SuperLuminova doesn't change color as it ages does it? Now if you wanted to do the hands and dial with tritium, then that is another storyb-).


----------



## siggy

I think this model sub was known as the Bond sub purely because in the 50's there were so few recreational scuba divers that this model was sold in such small numbers the Bond film was the only reference to it in popular culture. I don't think it needs a name on the dial to reference Bond, he just used stylish things and this was a stylish watch.

People who know about watches will instantly know it is an hommage to the Bond sub, non-WIS will not give a monkeys which watch Bond wore in the films anyway ;-) . 

If you gave me a vintage Aston Martin DB-5 to drive it's already stylish and I would not refuse, I don't need it to have Bond references written on it, in my opinion printed references are just a too tacky.

regards

siggy


----------



## Donald Grant

siggy said:


> I think this model sub was known as the Bond sub purely because in the 50's there were so few recreational scuba divers that this model was sold in such small numbers the Bond film was the only reference to it in popular culture. I don't think it needs a name on the dial to reference Bond, he just used stylish things and this was a stylish watch.
> 
> People who know about watches will instantly know it is an hommage to the Bond sub, non-WIS will not give a monkeys which watch Bond wore in the films anyway ;-) .
> 
> If you gave me a vintage Aston Martin DB-5 to drive it's already stylish and I would not refuse, I don't need it to have Bond references written on it, in my opinion printed references are just a too tacky.
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


You have a point, of course. However, the fact that this project is called "Kingston" because the first Bond movie (Dr. No) was filmed in Jamaica suggests that this project is in fact about the Bond Submariner as worn by Connery. If that is what the project is all about, then the details of the watch needs to reflect it. Nevertheless, Mr. Yao often provides customizeble options for his watches, so it seems a lot of things may be in the range of possibility. I just don't want this project to lose focus, but in the end Mr. Yao is the final arbiter.

DG


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

siggy said:


> ........If you gave me a vintage Aston Martin DB-5 to drive it's already stylish and I would not refuse, I don't need it to have Bond references written on it, in my opinion printed references are just a too tacky.
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


What he said. b-) I always thought the 007 logos on the Seamaster LEs were a bit lame, no need to take the Kingston down that road. Think about it, would the Bond character actually wear a watch that had his double-0 designation or other intelligence service logos on it?


----------



## siggy

Obviously there is a clear split between people who really like Bond and want a Bond reference on the watch and other people who like the Big Crown sub as it is and would run a mile from Bond references. Though I would prefer to keep the dial on my watch simple, hopefully being able to choose dials will offer a route to keep both camps happy.

Keep any references to Bond on the watch limited to the dial choices and keep at least one other choice clean and simple. Therefore people who wish to have their watch make a direct connection with Bond they can choose the appropriate dial.

Some who prefer a "cleaner" watch have suggested putting the name on the caseback, basically I think just because it is out of sight. If you put something connected with Bond on the caseback (unless you are offering choices of casebacks which seems costly) then there will be no option for the people who prefer a "cleaner" watch to choose from. If you keep any Bond cues limited to the dial at least people can opt out.


Suggested choices:
First choice; Simple, single colour gilt dial. Even the Bonds fans have diffiulty agreeing on whether the printing is a single or two colours. Even if it is two colours it seems the difference is so subtle that reproducing it with the same subtlety would be a nightmare, very difficult to get right so stick with gold printing and gold hands. No name, or definitely no Bond reference name on this version. One line or two lines of text above the six o'clock, whatever Bill decides looks best. 

Second choice(s) Bond version or Bond versions depending on how many Bill wishes to offer and how many the forum can think up. To have specific Bond cues that can be suggested by the forum, e.g. Choice of name? Where to print the name on the dial ? Number of lines of text exactly matching Bond's watch?

regards

siggy


----------



## Donald Grant

I somewhat agree. However, the name Kingston is a reference to Bond, although not blatantly so. As I've said before, I am also in favor of naming the watch according to it's intended function which is diving.

Names like Frogman, Scubadiver, Subaqueous, Aquatic, Skindiver etc. are all in the spirit of the original. The name Submariner is a reference to the intended function of the watch. Perhaps this homage should reference the intended use of the watch the way the word Submariner does rather than referencing Bond per se.

As for the look, I could be wrong, but I think everyone is after the look of the Connery Bond Sub. That means a simple bezel insert without the extra graduations between 0 and 15, two lines of printing above the six O'clock (depth rating and watch name), gilt hands, gloss dial with gilt printing and a big crown.

DG


----------



## Yao

My concept for the watch was to create something that wouldn't be a tribute to the Bond movies per se but to create a watch that Bond might have been worn (well if he wasn't a work of fiction anyway ;-)), in the same way that the director chose to use a Rolex in the movie.

I personally thought that Kingston would be nice because it is a diving location and it was also the place that the first movie was set. In addition I would think that the location was chosen by the author because it was exotic at the time. So I thought that it would be a subtle way to combine what an ad exec might have thought would be a good name for a dive watch if you lived in the 50s and to pay homage to the movie at the same time. However I am open to what the group would prefer.

I would say that any tongue-in-cheek reference to the movies or any more overt references probably won't do the watch justice. I think an homage is something that also ultimately shows reverence for the original. I hope that you will also agree with my point of view.



Donald Grant said:


> I somewhat agree. However, the name Kingston is a reference to Bond, although not blatantly so. As I've said before, I am also in favor of naming the watch according to it's intended function which is diving.
> 
> Names like Frogman, Scubadiver, Subaqueous, Aquatic, Skindiver etc. are all in the spirit of the original. The name Submariner is a reference to the intended function of the watch. Perhaps this homage should reference the intended use of the watch the way the word Submariner does rather than referencing Bond per se.
> 
> As for the look, I could be wrong, but I think everyone is after the look of the Connery Bond Sub. That means a simple bezel insert without the extra graduations between 0 and 15, two lines of printing above the six O'clock (depth rating and watch name), gilt hands, gloss dial with gilt printing and a big crown.
> 
> DG


----------



## -thorsten-

Actually, why not call the watch 'Connery'? 

That name alone captures everything about the movie, early James Bond, and for many is associated with their first impression of Rolex as cultural icon.

My 2.5 cents


----------



## Reintitan

I like the name "Kingston". It works for this watch. I say, forget about all those names alluding to Submarines, Diving Bells, SCUBA, etc.

Bill, I think the insert on the Kingston should have a red triangle just like the 6538. Also, please keep the name off the dial and just have the MKII logo and depth rating on it. And it would be cool to have the lume emission color blue (not the color of the lume material, but the glow). Finally, the hands and minute markers/minute track need to be gilt (gold-colored).

As an aside, Ian Fleming had a home in Jamaica he named Goldeneye. There's a great article in the current issue of Watchtime about Fleming's, and subsequently, James Bond's Rolex. It's not a Submariner. It's an Explorer. Ref. 1016. Fleming's 1016 (unfortunately fully restored by Rolex) is on display at the Imperial War Museum in the UK until March 2009. Pics of the watch are in the Watchtime article.

-Gerard


----------



## Donald Grant

Yao said:


> My concept for the watch was to create something that wouldn't be a tribute to the Bond movies per se but to create a watch that Bond might have been worn (well if he wasn't a work of fiction anyway ;-)), in the same way that the director chose to use a Rolex in the movie.
> 
> I personally thought that Kingston would be nice because it is a diving location and it was also the place that the first movie was set. In addition I would think that the location was chosen by the author because it was exotic at the time. So I thought that it would be a subtle way to combine what an ad exec might have thought would be a good name for a dive watch if you lived in the 50s and to pay homage to the movie at the same time. However I am open to what the group would prefer.
> 
> I would say that any tongue-in-cheek reference to the movies or any more overt references probably won't do the watch justice. I think an homage is something that also ultimately shows reverence for the original. I hope that you will also agree with my point of view.


I agree. I think your vision is spot on.

DG


----------



## Marley1966

A note on the lume issue:

The early Rolexes used tritium, which fades to yellow/gold. Tritium is no longer allowed to be used on modern watches (except in the military), so luminova is used (This is correct isn't it Bill?). Luminova is white and does not fade to a yellow/gold to the same degree. So your Kingston will not age in the same way as a Rolex. Hence the request for a yellowed tint to the luminova, all be it subtle.

Come on guys, the name Island-Diver rocks!


----------



## siggy

Yao said:


> My concept for the watch was to create something that wouldn't be a tribute to the Bond movies per se but to create a watch that Bond might have been worn (well if he wasn't a work of fiction anyway ;-)), in the same way that the director chose to use a Rolex in the movie.
> 
> I personally thought that Kingston would be nice because it is a diving location and it was also the place that the first movie was set. In addition I would think that the location was chosen by the author because it was exotic at the time. So I thought that it would be a subtle way to combine what an ad exec might have thought would be a good name for a dive watch if you lived in the 50s and to pay homage to the movie at the same time. However I am open to what the group would prefer.
> 
> I would say that any tongue-in-cheek reference to the movies or any more overt references probably won't do the watch justice. I think an homage is something that also ultimately shows reverence for the original. I hope that you will also agree with my point of view.


Very good Bill and I'm glad to see you agree Donald, follow both your ideas I'm sure we will end up with a great watch.

I haven't put any suggestions for a name forward yet, but following Bill's location idea of Kingston how about Nassau, the featured location in Thunderball. Nassau in the Bahamas just has a more exotic image to me than Kingston ;-)

Thunderball is one of the films where the sub is clearly visible and it has more underwater action than the other films.

*nassau*, espesially in lower case even has a bit of symmetry in the spelling that could be made to look good in the right font, similar when read upside down and back to front :-!

regards

siggy


----------



## Marley1966

I aggree, I think *nassau* has the right 50s exotic feel. Kingston is not exotic and is not a dive location. Nassau is. Nassau got soul!


----------



## siggy

Marley1966 said:


> I aggree, I think *nassau* has the right 50s exotic feel. Kingston is not exotic and is not a dive location. Nassau is. Nassau got soul!


Glad you like it :-!

regards

siggy


----------



## Gordon

Marley1966 said:


> I aggree, I think *nassau* has the right 50s exotic feel. Kingston is not exotic and is not a dive location. Nassau is. Nassau got soul!


+2 for nassau :-!:-!:-!


----------



## Marley1966

*Nassautomatic!* No, only kidding...*:-d*


----------



## Rob T

siggy said:


> Thunderball is one of the films where the sub is clearly visible and it has more underwater action than the other films.
> 
> *nassau*, espesially in lower case even has a bit of symmetry in the spelling that could be made to look good in the right font, similar when read upside down and back to front :-!
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


Yes, I like "nassau" too! It's a contender me thinks (no, wait, that was Brando - don't think he ever played Bond).

Rob.


----------



## pinjol

Wow! Nice one!
I would really, really like a discreet date window, squared, black with white font.... please.


----------



## Marley1966

Mmmm, this is tricky. Design by committee is not always a good thing (I am a designer, you can end up with a chimera by the time you've taken on board all the different points of view).

It is important to stay focussed on what you are trying to achieve and to offer suggestions towards that focussed goal.

Are you (we) developing:

1. A 50s style quality diving watch branded in the style of an early submariner with the type of name which would have been used for a 50s divers watch (Subaqua, Aquanaut etc)

2. An accurate 'homage' to be as close as possible (staying within the confines of being a homage, not a fake) to the watch worn by Connery in the early Bond films

3. A watch influenced by early submariners, but with a Bond reference

I would go for option 1 myself, and I built such a watch myself last year (albeit a hand wound movement).


----------



## JohnnyP

Back to straps:

How about a special commission nylon from the original producers?

Phoenix Straps Ltd
30 Springfield Gdns
Morganstown
Cardiff
CF15 8LQ 
South Glamorgan
Tel: 029 2084 3677

Alternatively a nice vintage style tropic would be suitably retro.


----------



## Marley1966

Already being done!
http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18940


----------



## andrewb

I love the concept Bill and also agree with point that Marley makes about this being a watch in its own right and not just a sub copy. The guilt detail and hands I think are a must and will really set this watch apart as would the red triangle insert last seen on the 6538. 
Nassau..............gets my vote too.


----------



## Yao

Point taken. :-! I have added Nassau to the list and I think its got good potential.



Marley1966 said:


> I aggree, I think *nassau* has the right 50s exotic feel. Kingston is not exotic and is not a dive location. Nassau is. Nassau got soul!


----------



## esantelli

Bill,
Love the watch 
I like the idea of keeping the dial alphanumerics similar to the original
something like below,Kingston in Red?

ed
*MKII*
*SELF-WINDING*

*200m/660ft*
*KINGSTON*


----------



## Yao

Okay. Ed. I will work that up. If I forget to do a mock-up of that please remind me. I will also check and see if "Self-Winding" is a Rolex trademark.



esantelli said:


> Bill,
> Love the watch
> I like the idea of keeping the dial alphanumerics similar to the original
> something like below,Kingston in Red?
> 
> ed
> *MKII*
> *SELF-WINDING*
> 
> *200m/660ft*
> *KINGSTON*


----------



## sween1911

I really like this project! I am a huge fan of the old mil-sub style and the Bond connection. I really like the ideas that make this a nod and a homage to the Bond sub rather than add too much movie-bling to the watch. No little Walther PPK on the end of the second hand. As Bill said somewhere in this thread that Omega might take exception to some items as they currently adorn the SMP "Bond" versions.

I think the watch shouldn't have any obvious "James Bond" markings, but some subtle items that reference the Bond heritage and the watches of that period. I think that tone of the watch is evident by Bill's use of the name Kingston for the project, to connote origins without being overtly explicit. The marketplace is literally hemmoraging with Sub knockoff's, and I think each and every watch that Bill creates stands on its own and this watch will be no exception. This should honor the watch that Bond used, not necessarily the character and franchise. I must say though, I LOVE that MKII with the Bond PPK next to it. That would make an excellent case-back raised image.


----------



## Ken268

The strap that is shown in the movie capture seems show a strap width quite a bit smaller than the lug width. Is this how Bond fans wear their Subs?


----------



## k7lro

Marley1966 said:


> *Nassautomatic!* No, only kidding...*:-d*


----------



## timbo

I like nassau, too!


----------



## sween1911

Ken268 said:


> The strap that is shown in the movie capture seems show a strap width quite a bit smaller than the lug width. Is this how Bond fans wear their Subs?


I've wondered that many times myself. I think that's just how it worked out for that particular watch, before there were dozens of different sizes and colors of NATO straps for watches.


----------



## Donald Grant

Marley1966 said:


> Mmmm, this is tricky. Design by committee is not always a good thing (I am a designer, you can end up with a chimera by the time you've taken on board all the different points of view).
> 
> It is important to stay focussed on what you are trying to achieve and to offer suggestions towards that focussed goal.
> 
> Are you (we) developing:
> 
> 1. A 50s style quality diving watch branded in the style of an early submariner with the type of name which would have been used for a 50s divers watch (Subaqua, Aquanaut etc)
> 
> 2. An accurate 'homage' to be as close as possible (staying within the confines of being a homage, not a fake) to the watch worn by Connery in the early Bond films
> 
> 3. A watch influenced by early submariners, but with a Bond reference
> 
> I would go for option 1 myself, and I built such a watch myself last year (albeit a hand wound movement).


I agree with what you are saying. However Mr. Yao has spoken on the subject of design by committee on another forum. I think he has a well defined vision of what the watch should be. We are in essence a sounding board for the creative process. I don't think he will allow it to go too far afield. He has the final say that is, perhaps, informed by our opinions and desires.

DG


----------



## esantelli

Thanks Bill
the mock up would be centered obviously
for some reason it did not save the centering I had originally used in the thread
Hard to imagine self winding is a trademark, there were vintage watches with the Kingston name although
eds



Yao said:


> Okay. Ed. I will work that up. If I forget to do a mock-up of that please remind me. I will also check and see if "Self-Winding" is a Rolex trademark.


----------



## Rob T

Ken268 said:


> The strap that is shown in the movie capture seems show a strap width quite a bit smaller than the lug width. Is this how Bond fans wear their Subs?


Its an 18mm NATO grey/black strap (regimental colours?). According to lore, this just happend to be the strap Chubbie (Broccoli) had the watch on when he lent it to Mr. Connery for the close-up.

So now, aren't you glad you asked? 

Rob.


----------



## sunster

I love the way this project is going and can't wait to see the next drawings/ plans to push me over the edge to pre-order!
Bill, go with your instincts, it seems you're not often wrong


----------



## Yao

*I am going to try to walk a fine line...*

between dictating the design and incorporating comments/suggestions. I think the end product will be better with more heads in the game but at the same time I do have a pre-set "vision" as to what this watch should be. The forum is a good place to test new ideas and to try to isolate what design elements are important to the group.

The guiding principle is to make something that Bond would have worn but adding some technical refinements like the "Trip-lock style" crown and solid-end-links that won't take away from the design aesthetic.



Donald Grant said:


> I agree with what you are saying. However Mr. Yao has spoken on the subject of design by committee on another forum. I think he has a well defined vision of what the watch should be. We are in essence a sounding board for the creative process. I don't think he will allow it to go too far afield. He has the final say that is, perhaps, informed by our opinions and desires.
> 
> DG


----------



## Yao

*I am most shocked and surprised...*

to learn that I may have made a mistake in the past :-| (kidding of course)



sunster said:


> I love the way this project is going and can't wait to see the next drawings/ plans to push me over the edge to pre-order!
> Bill, go with your instincts, it seems you're not often wrong


----------



## Steve356

I like "Kingston" way more than "Nassau". somehow just sounds way cooler the way it rolls off the tongue. I don't know much about history of either name but it Kingston is just better. plus, there's a place called Nassau county nearby here Bill  Do you really want people to mistake it for _that_ Nassau? :think: ;-)


----------



## Marley1966

Kingston in Jamaica is a dump. It conjours images of shanty towns, not tropical beaches.

:-d


----------



## Marley1966

Kingston upon Thames in London, however, is rather nice!


----------



## SeikoSickness

Kingston up here in Canada is a nice place on the opening of the St. Lawrence river. Home of Queen's University and the Royal Military College.


----------



## gerard88t

*MKII*
*SELF-WINDING*​

*200m/660ft*
*KINGSTON*​​​
*THIS?*​


----------



## gerard88t

Or this?​
*MKII*
*SELF-WINDING*​

*200m/660ft*
*KINGSTON*​​​


----------



## Steve356

I like "self-winding" a lot more than "automatic". it's something different and conjures up images of those cool early Tudors.


----------



## esantelli

Kingston always reminds me of this little dittie
eds

Down the way where the nights are gay
And the sun shines daily on the mountain top
I took a trip on a sailing ship
And when I reach Jamaica I made a stop

_ But I'm sad to say, I'm on my way
Won't be back for many a day
My heart is down, my head is turning around
I had to leave a little girl in Kingston town
_ 
Sounds of laughter everywhere
And the dancing girls swaying to and fro
I must declare, my heart is there
Tho' I've been from Maine to Mexico

_ But I'm sad to say, I'm on my way
Won't be back for many a day
My heart is down, my head is turning around
I had to leave a little girl in Kingston town_

Down at the market you can hear
Ladies cry out while on their heads they bear
Ackey rice, salt fish are nice
And the rum is fine any time of year

_ But I'm sad to say, I'm on my way
Won't be back for many a day
My heart is down, my head is turning around
I had to leave a little girl in Kingston town_


----------



## gerard88t

gerard88t said:


> Or this?​
> *MKII*
> *SELF-WINDING*​
> *200m/660ft*
> 
> *KINGSTON*​


 Or maybe this?

*MKII*
*AUTOWIND*​

*200m/660ft*
*KINGSTON*​


----------



## timbo

Marley1966 said:


> Kingston in Jamaica is a dump. It conjours images of shanty towns, not tropical beaches.
> 
> :-d


Kingston, Canada is, however, a cool dive location


----------



## gerard88t

or

*MKII*
*SELF-WINDING*​

*200m/660ft*
*SPOLIEDSOUPPOT*​


----------



## Steve356

Gerard, that looks nice. I would really like the self-winding to be on the bottom like on the Tudors.


----------



## Rob T

Steve356 said:


> I like "self-winding" a lot more than "automatic". it's something different and conjures up images of those cool early Tudors.


You are thinking a dial like this, but with less script perhaps:










And for a case-back something like this, but with the S/N stamped in:










Cheers,

Rob


----------



## gerard88t

Steve356 said:


> Gerard, that looks nice. I would really like the self-winding to be on the bottom like on the Tudors.


 Like this?

*MKII*
*KINGSTON*​

*200m/660ft*
*SELF-WINDING*​


----------



## Marley1966

*MKII*
*SELF-WINDING*​

*200m/660ft*
*Kingston (the nice one, in London or Canada, not Jamaica)*

*Design by committee!*​


----------



## gerard88t

Rob
I see a case back like that and first thought I have is - I saw that look on a $15 fleamarket dive watch.
All I hope for is Bill making the final cut an undecorated oyster back and leave any markings on its inside. Case back markings trap dirt (yes, even micro dirt you would not see) that can cause wear and even skin irritation with time.



Rob T said:


> You are thinking a dial like this, but with less script perhaps:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for a case-back something like this, but with the S/N stamped in:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rob


----------



## esantelli

*MKII*
 KINGSTON

ed



gerard88t said:


> Like this?
> 
> *MKII*
> *KINGSTON*​
> 
> *200m/660ft*
> *SELF-WINDING*​


----------



## jhobbs

Marley1966 said:


> Kingston in Jamaica is a dump. It conjours images of shanty towns, not tropical beaches.
> 
> :-d


My wife spent a day in Nassau a couple of weeks ago, according to her what she saw looked like a dump as well. A lot of your Caribbean islands have their nice tropical beaches mixed in with the shanty look...just the way it is. b-)

I still like Kingston. It is intended to reflect to the past, not the present.


----------



## Steve356

gerard88t said:


> Like this?
> 
> *MKII*
> *KINGSTON*​
> 
> *200m/660ft*
> *SELF-WINDING*​


Yes, that's perfect. The more I think about it , the more I think the word "Kingston" or any other title should *not *be on the dial though. It just does not belong. None of the other MKII watches have their name on the dial. I think there's a good reason for that. It just looks better that way.


----------



## SeikoSickness

Steve356 said:


> I like "self-winding" a lot more than "automatic". it's something different and conjures up images of those cool early Tudors.


...and, is a Rolex trademark...


----------



## gerard88t

Marley1966 said:


> *MKII*
> 
> *SELF-WINDING*​
> *200m/660ft*
> *Kingston (the nice one, in London or Canada, not Jamaica)*​
> 
> *Design by committee!*​


:-d but on a serious note I have seen how internet decision-making grows tacky super fast. I recall another watch helped with forumer decision that ended up having the maker shorten his efforts to appease the masses and to be truthful I was not impressed when it was revealed and didn't spend my money on it. I want to feel damn good dropping nearly $800 for a limited edition homage timepiece (that above mentioned watch was too in a sense) and not be disappointed - ever- by it! It's a lot of money no matter how it's spun so I would rather the designer not get too slowed by a lot of non-designer desire to personalize the piece to tasteless results. Let the buyers that need the extra window dressing be given not much choice and I would bet most would fall in love with a simpler design afterall. In other words give them a sharp lined, well designed, excellent timekeeper without frills and it will sell on it's own, mainly due to the -I gotta have it- type personas in our watch world.


----------



## GraniteQuarry

Must admit i do like NASSAU ;-)

Bring on the polls, the only way to end this madness !! :-d


----------



## jhobbs

I like the wording on the dial just like the graphic in the first post, less the word Automatic.


----------



## gerard88t

jhobbs said:


> I like the wording on the dial just like the graphic in the first post, less the word Automatic.


How about this, and I changed the self wind part -

*MIIK*​
*200m/660ft*
*ACTION-WOUND*​


----------



## k7lro

Some good options... maybe too many?! ;-)​


----------



## Marley1966

That is funny!!!!


----------



## gerard88t

this?

*MIIK*​
*200m/660ft*
*INERRSHA-DRIVIN*​


----------



## gerard88t

*MIIK*​
*KINGSTON*
*Submersible *​


----------



## jhobbs

Now we are just being silly. :-d:-d:-d


----------



## gerard88t

The whole thing about the dial WILL go silly unless Bill sticks to a design HE wants to claim and says - Here fellas, this is what the dial will say! Of course he is being very cool, allowing touches from others to influence him but I feel it will make his process lag when it comes to a final cut. I really believe we just let Bill dictate the dial and let that be that.


----------



## GraniteQuarry

These would be my favourites, hint of RedSub/DRSD about them ;-)

*MIIK*​
*KINGSTON*
*200m/660ft *

or

*MIIK*​
*NASSAU*
*200m/660ft *​


----------



## Donald Grant

To be true to the original, there should be a logo and then the brand mame below the 12 o'clock That would mean something like this:

MIIK
Mark Two

But that looks kind of funny. However, I do feel we are on the right track. Keep it coming.

DG


----------



## Steve356

SeikoSickness said:


> ...and, is a Rolex trademark...


really?? you sure about that? well , that sucks. how about something like "self-propelled"? too military  maybe garotte wire will need to be incorporated in crown design :-d


----------



## Rob T

Steve356 said:


> really?? you sure about that? well , that sucks. how about something like "self-propelled"? too military  maybe garotte wire will need to be incorporated in crown design :-d


How about "*Rotor-Winding*"?


----------



## pepecasas

Dear Bill:
I find the name* "Kingston"* quite appropiate for this project, I just want to add a few ideas about some letters that coud be written in a smaller type below the name Kingston, such as:
*El Submarino* (obviously inspired by El Primero).
*cero cero siete* (in spanish)
*zero zero seven*
*Bondiano*
or just simple _*Automatic*_

The most dissaponting thing about a dial of a watch is when it lacks some reference or name of the inspairation of why that particular model was made. Imagine a Rolex Explorer with a blank dial...or an Omega without the _Seamaster, _or an IWC, without the Mark XV, etc.

These ideas are very simple, but great things come from simplicity.
Best regards, 
Pepe Casas


----------



## Ken268

Rob T said:


> Its an 18mm NATO grey/black strap (regimental colours?). According to lore, this just happend to be the strap Chubbie (Broccoli) had the watch on when he lent it to Mr. Connery for the close-up.
> 
> So now, aren't you glad you asked?
> 
> Rob.


Right time, right place, eh? Bet he never thought it'd be scrutinized by milwatch fans for decades to come...Thanks Rob, Ken


----------



## johnny B

Rob T said:


> How about "*Rotor-Winding*"?


What do we think about this proposal?:

*MKII*​
* 200m/660ft*
*ROTOR-WINDING*​


----------



## johnny B

Rob T said:


> How about "*Rotor-Winding*"?


How about this?:

*MKII*​
*200m/660ft*
*ROTOR-WINDING*​


----------



## johnny B

Oops!!!


----------



## Rob T

Like it!

Or perhaps:

*MIIK*
*ROTOR-WINDING*​
KINGSTON
*200m/660ft*​
Rob.


----------



## Yao

*Very funny!*

Don't worry. I will make the final call. This is good feedback. Normally I just sit in my office and design stuff. Its more interesting to get some feedback, as long as no one is offended if I don't use their ideas. :-!



Marley1966 said:


> *MKII*
> *SELF-WINDING*​
> 
> *200m/660ft*
> *Kingston (the nice one, in London or Canada, not Jamaica)*
> 
> *Design by committee!*​


----------



## k7lro

*Bond NATO Straps*



Rob T said:


> Its an 18mm NATO grey/black strap (regimental colours?). According to lore, this just happend to be the strap Chubbie (Broccoli) had the watch on when he lent it to Mr. Connery for the close-up.
> 
> So now, aren't you glad you asked?
> 
> Rob.


Several have mentioned NATO straps and at least one person mentioned "camfan" in the pre-order thread.

If you missed it, Camfan is putting together a special order for a Bond Nato strap. I can't get to my personal email at the moment but I believe there may be time to reserve one for you. Contact him if you're interested.

The thread at MWR is here.


----------



## racerx454

+1 for "BREVET". Lysander's logic is spot on (as usual).

Has anyone considered using an acrylic crystal? I enjoy sapphire as much as anyone, but I think an acrylic crystal would really finish off the vintage aesthetics.



-Kevin-


----------



## gerard88t

racerx454 said:


> +1 for "BREVET". Lysander's logic is spot on (as usual).
> 
> Has anyone considered using an acrylic crystal? I enjoy sapphire as much as anyone, but I think an acrylic crystal would really finish off the vintage aesthetics.
> 
> -Kevin-


 YES! I begged for it, and was informed not many wanted it, which is a real wonder due to the rationale of benefits of it over sapphire, especially on a diver/tool watch. Take a sapphire and acrylic (this was another persons idea) and drop them to a concrete floor from 5 feet and put them back onto the watch. Now which one would you go in the water with? 
I guess I have been hanging out too much with the old school, old guy collectors that wouldn't dream of purposely placing a sapphire onto their divers. A testimate to the lousy durability is seen a lot in even the case of the real Rolex sub sap with magnifying windows. They all get ugly if worn daily. I have seen it in person.


----------



## timbo

gerard88t said:


> YES! I begged for it, and was informed not many wanted it, which is a real wonder due to the rationale of benefits of it over sapphire, especially on a diver/tool watch. Take a sapphire and acrylic (this was another persons idea) and drop them to a concrete floor from 5 feet and put them back onto the watch. Now which one would you go in the water with?


We were talking before about having the crystal 'jut above' the bezel, like the original. I wonder if having that much saphire above the bezel will expose it to chipping more, as it's edge will be exposed. Acrylic, on the other hand, likes to be 'bubbled' up like this and is resistant to impact a lot more.

Dare we open the sapphire vs. acrylic Pandora's Box?


----------



## timbo

SeikoSickness said:


> ...and, is a Rolex trademark...


Benrus used 'Self Winding' on some of their dive watches, so I dunno if it's a Rolex trademark...

Benrus Ultradeep http://scubawatch.org/benrus_ultradeep.html


----------



## rcarbonetti

GraniteQuarry said:


> These would be my favorites, hint of RedSub/DRSD about them ;-)
> 
> *MIIK*​
> *NASSAU*
> *200m/660ft
> 
> *​How about this? Simple, clean and tells you everything at a glance. If needed, the words" ETA Swiss Automatic", numbering sequence, Stainless Steel could be inscribed-on the outer edge of the case back.
> One final thought, maybe our names could be Laser Etched or included somehow as part of the LE status with the date of production. I don't know how this could be done, but is sure would be a real personal statement of ownership and participitation in the project.
> 
> Robert


----------



## Rob T

*Re: Bond NATO Straps*



k7lro said:


> Several have mentioned NATO straps and at least one person mentioned "camfan" in the pre-order thread.
> 
> If you missed it, Camfan is putting together a special order for a Bond Nato strap. I can't get to my personal email at the moment but I believe there may be time to reserve one for you. Contact him if you're interested.
> 
> The thread at MWR is here.


Gerry - Thanks for the link - I'll shoot "camfam" an e-mail. I already have a draw of black and "Bond" NATOs (from Eddie Plats at Timefactors and Howard Marx at West Coast Time) but these sound like they could be better quality. I find with the ones I have the plating rubbs off the buckles and the strap frays around the buckle holes pretty quickly.

Rob.


----------



## Yao

Sorry the crystal material is set. Based on the poll this is just what more people wanted and those that wanted acrylic were willing to live with a sapphire crystal if that is what came to pass.

At this point there are enough deposits to go ahead with the project as is. If we revisit the items that have already been decided we risk jeopardizing the whole project because then people will begin to back out.



timbo said:


> We were talking before about having the crystal 'jut above' the bezel, like the original. I wonder if having that much saphire above the bezel will expose it to chipping more, as it's edge will be exposed. Acrylic, on the other hand, likes to be 'bubbled' up like this and is resistant to impact a lot more.
> 
> Dare we open the sapphire vs. acrylic Pandora's Box?


----------



## Yao

*I am going to re-organize this thread and...*

break it into several pieces such as, dial & hands, case body, and bracelet. Its a great start but the thread is getting hard to follow. So this thread will probably be closed in the next 24-48 hours and re-organized into something more manageable.


----------



## johnny B

timbo said:


> Benrus used 'Self Winding' on some of their dive watches, so I dunno if it's a Rolex trademark...
> 
> Benrus Ultradeep http://scubawatch.org/benrus_ultradeep.html


Maybe the difference of the " - " in self-winding and selfwinding is what makes the difference between registed or not.

I could live without the "-"

john


----------



## Duarte

This is getting complicated. I like the name Kingston. I like Nassau. And, I like Commander. Now which one to choose? 

I guess the first two are more subtle. Commander can sound rather presumptuous perhaps, but I still like it. Will this be put to a vote?


----------



## Yao

*Yes*

it will be put to a vote.



Duarte said:


> This is getting complicated. I like the name Kingston. I like Nassau. And, I like Commander. Now which one to choose?
> 
> I guess the first two are more subtle. Commander can sound rather presumptuous perhaps, but I still like it. Will this be put to a vote?


----------



## pipers

*Re: I am going to re-organize this thread and...*

How about just keeping the dial sterile? Gilt, no date with matching gilt handset. Crystal? Sapphire or acrylic, it doesnt matter, as long as the "shape" of the original is followed.


----------



## Ctaranti

*Re: I am going to re-organize this thread and...*

Hello
I just began viewing this thread yesterday and must say I am very impressed with the watch! Is there an updated rendering of the face without the "automatic"? I'd love to see before I order

Thanks and great work!

Ctaranti


----------



## gerard88t

Hi Bill
I understand having to set the crystal and move on, but can you state whether the new owners that rather a plastic can get one successfully installed into the case you are designing? I already have the mind that it will be the first thing I will try hard to change when my piece is purchased.
Unlike a lot that want a sapphire, I came into watch collecting long before the new folks that really only believe sapphire is the only way to go. I like to label those newer to the scene, the Tag people. :-d



Yao said:


> Sorry the crystal material is set. Based on the poll this is just what more people wanted and those that wanted acrylic were willing to live with a sapphire crystal if that is what came to pass.
> 
> At this point there are enough deposits to go ahead with the project as is. If we revisit the items that have already been decided we risk jeopardizing the whole project because then people will begin to back out.


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

*Re: Project Kingston - dial thoughts*

I went googling for non-crown guarded Subs, concentrating on 6538s. It appeared that these had gilt text, except for the depth rating in silver. Bearing this in mind, here's an idea or two. I liked the MIIK logo as it has the same visual cues as the rolex crown, yet is its own animal. So tryng to keep the same number of text lines, and the same colors:

1. Gotta confess, I do like that "self winding" text, gves a vintage feel to it.
*M*II*K*
SELFWINDING



200 _m_
KINGSTON
​
2. Of course if "selfwinding / self winding / self-winding" is trademarked, then maybe automatic works.​
*M*II*K*
AUTOMATIC



200 _m_
KINGSTON​

3. I sort of like this last one a litle more somehow, no seflwinding or automatic makes it just a little cleaner somehow.​
*M*II*K*



200 _m_
KINGSTON​
Just some thoughts, for what they're worth.

BTW, when I tried "NASSAU" instead of "KINGSTON", it just didn't look balanced somehow. I still think Bill's first instinct was best.

And for the crystal, a highly domed sapphire works fine for me - it looks like we'll end up with almost the same profile anyway.​


----------



## Yao

I am pretty sure that it can be done but don't hold me to it. We don't even have a detailed case drawing yet. Of the conversions that I have seen done where a glass crystal was retrofitted with an acrylic crystal there is quite a gap between the inner diameter of the bezel and the outter diameter of the crystal. Just something to think about.



gerard88t said:


> Hi Bill
> I understand having to set the crystal and move on, but can you state whether the new owners that rather a plastic can get one successfully installed into the case you are designing? I already have the mind that it will be the first thing I will try hard to change when my piece is purchased.
> Unlike a lot that want a sapphire, I came into watch collecting long before the new folks that really only believe sapphire is the only way to go. I like to label those newer to the scene, the Tag people. :-d


----------



## Yao

*Re: I am going to re-organize this thread and...*

I will have one done in a few days. I have to get some bench time in.



Ctaranti said:


> Hello
> I just began viewing this thread yesterday and must say I am very impressed with the watch! Is there an updated rendering of the face without the "automatic"? I'd love to see before I order
> 
> Thanks and great work!
> 
> Ctaranti


----------



## Yao

*Re: I am going to re-organize this thread and...*

I gave up on completely sterile dials as it leaves the door open for someone in Hong Kong to knock-off my work and claim its a "Yao". This actually happened to me a few years ago. \

But I don't think that we will be going that route. It sounds like too much of a departure from what is already envisioned. However we can always put it up for a vote with the other dial options (the dial option would have to feature at least my logo under the 6 o'clock hour marker). I just think it has it a low chance of being adopted.



pipers said:


> How about just keeping the dial sterile? Gilt, no date with matching gilt handset. Crystal? Sapphire or acrylic, it doesnt matter, as long as the "shape" of the original is followed.


----------



## es335

Bill

Are you going to include the "red triangle" seen on the 6538s? http://bjsonline.com/watches/articles/0018_1.shtml


----------



## pipers

*Re: I am going to re-organize this thread and...*



Yao said:


> the dial option would have to feature at least my logo under the 6 o'clock hour marker


Thats what i meant actually... Hope this option becomes available


----------



## teeritz

If the name game is still running, how about this one. Ian Fleming wrote his Bond novels at his house (called "Goldeneye", but let's not even_ think_ about that name) which was located at Oracabessa in Ocho Rios, along Jamaica's northern coast. 
I'm thinking "Oracabessa" or "Ocho Rios" have a certain ring to them.
Anyone else agree?
Just my 2c.

teeritz


----------



## tallguy

Sorry, couldn't resist: 









And while I'm at it, even though these are not quite the same watch, I always have thought they were the best "tool watch" print ads of all time:


----------



## Yao

Actually I was planning on one like this hoping to satisfy those that want the minute makers on the insert. I think the red triangle would be a nice touch since really very few people that have made sub-clones have done it.



es335 said:


> Bill
> 
> Are you going to include the "red triangle" seen on the 6538s? http://bjsonline.com/watches/articles/0018_1.shtml


----------



## delahood

tallguy said:


> Sorry, couldn't resist:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And while I'm at it, even though these are not quite the same watch, I always have thought they were the best "tool watch" print ads of all time:


The Nautilus was lost under the Arctic ice wasn't it? Some Cold War mystery that's never been solved.


----------



## MDS

gerard88t said:


> Or this?​
> *MKII*
> *SELF-WINDING*​
> 
> *200m/660ft*
> *KINGSTON*​​​


My two cents - This is really nice looking; I like it a lot


----------



## MDS

Yao said:


> Actually I was planning on one like this hoping to satisfy those that want the minute makers on the insert. I think the red triangle would be a nice touch since really very few people that have made sub-clones have done it.


I think that'll look great.

Mike


----------



## NWP627

MDS said:


> I think that'll look great.
> 
> Mike



You have my vote for the red triangle as well.
N


----------



## NWP627

delahood said:


> The Nautilus was lost under the Arctic ice wasn't it? Some Cold War mystery that's never been solved.


No. "On April 11, 1986, eighty-six years to the day after the birth of the Submarine Force, Historic Ship NAUTILUS (SSN571), joined by the Submarine Force Museum, opened to the public as the first and finest exhibit of its kind in the world, providing an exciting, visible link between yesterday's Submarine Force and the Submarine Force of tomorrow."
N


----------



## aliasrichmond

JohnnyP said:


> Back to straps:
> 
> How about a special commission nylon from the original producers?
> 
> Phoenix Straps Ltd
> 30 Springfield Gdns
> Morganstown
> Cardiff
> CF15 8LQ
> South Glamorgan
> Tel: 029 2084 3677
> 
> Alternatively a nice vintage style tropic would be suitably retro.


Phoenix didn't produce the original Bond strap, no-one knows who did, the one Camfam is having made, is going to be a nato which is incorrect, the original had a single keeper made from the same material. Whilst Cam's is going to be a step closer using olive drab instead of grey, its still not certain that the red pinstripes were actually present or merely a trick of the set lights....this daylight shot shows no red pinstripes


----------



## GregoryD

Hi Bill, 

Are there any sketches of what the bracelet will look like? I don't think I've seen any yet.

Cheers, 

Greg


----------



## Yao

*I have some....*

but haven't posted them yet. The bracelet probably needs the most work at this point.



GregoryD said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Are there any sketches of what the bracelet will look like? I don't think I've seen any yet.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Greg


----------



## GregoryD

*Re: I have some....*

I know you mentioned that there will probably be a separate thread for the various aspects of the design (hands, bracelet, etc.), so I'll have a look at that when it's up.

Thanks!

Greg


----------



## racerx454

Another vote for the red triangle with lume pip (either C3 or dark red).

I like the cleaner look of the dial without "AUTOMATIC" or its equivalent:

MIIK

KINGSTON
200m


----------



## gerard88t

*I am just home from work and wound up a bit. Wanted to bounce this idea off you guys, for a dial print idea.*​



*MIIK*
* SPECIALTY EDITION*​

*200m/660ft*
*KINGSTON*​


----------



## gerard88t

*with a little twists, this way? -*​
*MII**K*
HOROLOGE FORTE​
*200m/660ft*
*KINGSTON*​


----------



## camfam

aliasrichmond said:


> Phoenix didn't produce the original Bond strap, no-one knows who did, the one Camfam is having made, is going to be a nato which is incorrect, the original had a single keeper made from the same material. Whilst Cam's is going to be a step closer using olive drab instead of grey, its still not certain that the red pinstripes were actually present or merely a trick of the set lights....this daylight shot shows no red pinstripes


I will be having the strap made in both NATO and RAF style (no extra keeper strap). Also, both versions will be available in 18, 20 & 22mm. If you really want the self fabric strap holder, buy the NATO, cut off the extra strap and the metal hardware, and make your own holder with the extra fabric and sew it in place.

Also, I invite you to watch Thunderball on Blu-Ray on an HD TV. The red stripe is clearly visible in the daylight scene. Not to mention, the red stripe makes the strap extra cool looking.

Cam


----------



## andrewb

That will red triangle look stunning with the gilt too, even it is missing from the movie stills , I think it should be there. 

So many decisions to make Bill, maybe if we cant get a concensus we should all ask our wives what they think about the many aspects of this design that need to be considered and see if they have any useful critique to offer on our musings


----------



## Donald Grant

Here is another name to run up the flagpole:

Submersible


DG


----------



## andrewb

So the red triangle and minute marker bezel would be alternative to the original bezel featured on your draft, damn thats gonna be hard call come order day.


----------



## delahood

I gotta say I'm not wild about Kingston either, it reminds me of a visit I had to make to Kingston, New York, you really have to work at it to get a town that dirty, guess I need a Jamaican Holiday to trump that memory.


----------



## delahood

Right, it was the Thresher not the Nautilus.


----------



## Yao

Sorry Panerai is using that one.



Donald Grant said:


> Here is another name to run up the flagpole:
> 
> Submersible
> 
> DG


----------



## Yao

What does Horologe Forte mean? I think I can guess but you'd probably better off telling me ;-)



gerard88t said:


> *with a little twists, this way? -*​
> *MII**K*
> HOROLOGE FORTE​
> *200m/660ft*
> *KINGSTON*​


----------



## gerard88t

Yao said:


> What does Horologe Forte mean? I think I can guess but you'd probably better off telling me ;-)


 It can have several different meanings - horologe is time or timepiece or studies thereof; and forte is a french word for strength but it can also be understood as meaning specialty or gift, or strong point. 
I meant to write in place of these words, the words - "SPECIALTY EDITION" under miik, but that looked funny. I was looking for something that would ring a bell like "oyster perpetual". So "horologe forte", came to me, and to me it means Timepiece Specialty, and then it can mean Strong Timecrafting, et al. So I wound up liking it because it can be deciphered by the reader in many ways, which can cause a public myth over the years to incoming collectors, wondering and discussing on future forum threads what "Horologe Forte" really meant to the watch designer Bill Yao :-!


----------



## Donald Grant

Yao said:


> Sorry Panerai is using that one.


You're right, as in "Panerai Luminor Submersible".

DG


----------



## siggy

Yao said:


> They will be drilled like the original. I just didn't feel the need to add that detail yet but probably should have since its not just me looking that the drawings this time around;-)


Hi Bill

I think this is great and very important to stick to. The watch needs chunky shoulderless bars just like the original to match the chunky crown and the overall thickness of the watch.

regards

siggy


----------



## Magnus

I love this project, just wish I could afford one. Anyway, I had an idea for the case back discussed earlier in this thread. What about a diver with a harpoon in his hand? Something like this:









Picture from google images.


----------



## gerard88t

Magnus said:


> I love this project, just wish I could afford one. Anyway, I had an idea for the case back discussed earlier in this thread. What about a diver with a harpoon in his hand? Something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picture from google images.


How about nothing of the sort and the case back be left clean and undecorated like the original mostly was.


----------



## para-dox

When the project was first mooted and Bill asked for ideas, i commented that i would like to see the numerals 'aged'. I dont get on here too often, so just checked this thread again after putting a deposit on the kingston. I see that theres a few people echoing my feelings. I have a Rolex Sub nearly 30 years old and the numerals have aged to a nice creamy colour. Lots of great ideas, like the red triangle on the bezel and totally confused at the moment what i would like to see on the dial, in terms of script. Like the general aim of a 50's feel. Definately no Bond or 007 references. Cant wait!:-!


----------



## jxlxr

Thought this might be of interest:

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=4247063&rid=0


----------



## GraniteQuarry

jxlxr said:


> Thought this might be of interest:
> 
> http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=4247063&rid=0


Good link, that's what we should be aiming for


----------



## Yao

Although no one is quite sure the reference that is generally believed to be the "Bond" watch is ref. 6538. The earlier 6200s had longer pointier lugs that dropped down farther than the 6538. By comparison the 6538 is a more refined looking version than the 6200.



GraniteQuarry said:


> Good link, that's what we should be aiming for


----------



## customV2

this is so cool!!!
just visited MKII-HP and found out about this. Since I'm a proud owner of a custom Blackwater, I can guess what a great watch this is going to be!! Looks great!

Maybe the lugs could go a little more to the "south"/down, might make the wear a bit more comfortable(I'm thinking a little like DOXA, just a little)?

The Dial should not have too much written on it, "MIIK" in the upper half, "Kingston" "660ft" in two lines on the lower half.

The red triangle looks really cool!

Is it possible for the bezel to have lume on the numbers and markers?

I like the idea of a MIIK-signed crown, one should wear it with pride!

Since I didn't manage to read the whole thread, forgive my double posted opinions!

Great work, I'll start checking my bank account


greetings from Germany


----------



## usc1

Considering the project ideas could go on ad nauseam -d) will the cut off date for the final plans be definitely late Feb.?


----------



## siggy

OK then Bill, another one of the small details that you may have seen already, the case profile from the side.

The bezel seems to be a little more flush with case at the bezel's base, at least when viewed in side profile. The bezel profile is a little more asymmetric with the widest part of the bezel about about one fifth from the top of the bezel. From the widest part it slopes down gradually till it meets the case. Your illustration has the bezel showing a more constant width.

The profile of the bezel is no a big deal to me ( though for others maybe if they wanted it close to the original? ) but I think a more important point is whether the base of the bezel is a little more flush with the case, removing any areas for dirt and grime to collect. This also affects the overhang of the bezel.

How far do you estimate the overhang of the bezel from the case on a 6538? I get it to be about 0.25-0.3mm at the bezels widest point, which is actually a handy fraction of a millimeter to have around. If you keep the bezel diameter of the Kingston at 39mm, then deducting the overhang gives you actual case length ( 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock ) of 38.4-38.5 mm. This gives a difference of 9.5mm between the length of the case and lug to lug measurement of 47.90mm, just enough ( 9.5mm ) to fit in fully drilled though holes for shoulderless bars. I want to avoid a similar case of Eddie Platts' Speedbird 3, which seems to me to be a very good watch but in trying to enlarge the original while keeping the lug length at a managable size has resulted in a watch whose lug to lug measurement is only about 7 mm longer than the case size. Unfortunately this mean that some owners haven't be able to fit some nice leather straps on their Speedbird 3. There just isn't enough room. Fortunately Eddie has suplied such a high quality bracelet most people are not too unhappy but I really would like the option of a nice leather strap over shoulderless bars on my Kingston sub.

I think many people will be surprised at the case diameter of this watch when comparing it to a 5513. Due to the 1.5mm overhang of the bezel on the 5513, it appears to be a 39mm watch ( i.e much bigger than the original 6538 ) but the 5513 actually only has an actual case diameter of 36mm. The overhang of the bezel on the 6538 is proportionally a lot smaller so this Kingston project is actually going to be a very sizable and chunky watch.

regards

siggy


----------



## superado

Hello,

Thanks to Donald Grant, my fellow board member at Absolutely James Bond, I was able to get my preorder among the 1st one hundred. Here's my suggestion for the lettering on the dial, based on these equivalent/symetrical elements:

(top scripting)
"mIIk" = Rolex crown
"ORBIS" = "ROLEX"
"NON SUFFICIT" = "OYSTER PERPETUAL"

(bottom scripting)
depth rating
"VINDICATOR" = "SUBMARINER"

"Orbis Non Sufficit" of course is the Bond family motto, "The World is Not Enough" from the novel, "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." For me this is more evocative of Fleming elements vs. that of the Brosnan movie, and rendering this in Latin effectively avoids the cliche of the English translation.

"Vindicator" is the fictional RAF bomber Fleming referenced in Thunderball, which was translated into the real aircraft, "Vulcan," in the screen version. I also think at a different level, "Vindicator" is a great action term descriptor of the James Bond character, which sounds butch yet "old school Brit."

I know that by parallel comparison in the strictest sense, these elements do not directly match up with Sean Connery in his role as Bond. But to me, due in large part to the close proximity in time, the Connery films captured the charm and ambiance that Fleming created in his novels. Here's a mock-up of my suggested scripting:


----------



## lichmd

superado said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks to Donald Grant, my fellow board member at Absolutely James Bond, I was able to get my preorder among the 1st one hundred. Here's my suggestion for the lettering on the dial, based on these equivalent/symetrical elements:
> 
> (top scripting)
> "mIIk" = Rolex crown
> "ORBIS" = "ROLEX"
> "NON SUFFICIT" = "OYSTER PERPETUAL"
> 
> (bottom scripting)
> depth rating
> "VINDICATOR" = "SUBMARINER"
> 
> "Orbis Non Sufficit" of course is the Bond family motto, "The World is Not Enough." For me there's more of a Fleming flavor in this element vs. that of the Brosnan movie, avoiding the associated cliche effect of the English translation.
> 
> "Vindicator" is the fictional RAF bomber Fleming referenced in Thunderball, which was translated into the real aircraft, "Vulcan," in the screen version. I think "Vindicator" is also a butch yet "old school brit" sounding descriptor of the character.
> 
> I know that by parallel comparison in the strictest sense, these elements do not directly match up with Sean Connery in his role as Bond. But to me, due in large part to the close proximity in time, the Connery films captured the charm and ambiance that Fleming created in his novels. Here's a mock-up of my suggested scripting:


That, my friend, is very interesting
Cheers,
J


----------



## superado

Hello,

Thanks to Donald Grant, my fellow board member at Absolutely James Bond, I was able to get my preorder among the 1st one hundred. Here's my suggestion for the lettering on the dial, based on these equivalent/symetrical elements:

(top scripting)
"mIIk" = Rolex crown
"ORBIS" = "ROLEX"
"NON SUFFICIT" = "OYSTER PERPETUAL"

(bottom scripting)
depth rating
"VINDICATOR" = "SUBMARINER"

"Orbis Non Sufficit" of course is the Bond family motto, "The World is Not Enough" from the novel, "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." For me this is more evocative of Fleming elements vs. that of the Brosnan movie, and rendering this in Latin effectively avoids the cliche of the English translation.

"Vindicator" is the fictional RAF bomber Fleming referenced in Thunderball, which was translated into the real aircraft, "Vulcan," in the screen version. I also think at a different level, "Vindicator" is a great action term descriptor of the James Bond character, which sounds butch yet "old school Brit."

I know that by parallel comparison in the strictest sense, these elements do not directly match up with Sean Connery in his role as Bond. But to me, due in large part to the close proximity in time, the Connery films captured the charm and ambiance that Fleming created in his novels. Here's a mock-up of my suggested scripting:


----------



## Yao

Thank you for taking the time to do that mock-up and detail the background that a hard core fan would know 



superado said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks to Donald Grant, my fellow board member at Absolutely James Bond, I was able to get my preorder among the 1st one hundred. Here's my suggestion for the lettering on the dial, based on these equivalent/symetrical elements:
> 
> (top scripting)
> "mIIk" = Rolex crown
> "ORBIS" = "ROLEX"
> "NON SUFFICIT" = "OYSTER PERPETUAL"
> 
> (bottom scripting)
> depth rating
> "VINDICATOR" = "SUBMARINER"
> 
> "Orbis Non Sufficit" of course is the Bond family motto, "The World is Not Enough" from the novel, "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." For me this is more evocative of Fleming elements vs. that of the Brosnan movie, and rendering this in Latin effectively avoids the cliche of the English translation.
> 
> "Vindicator" is the fictional RAF bomber Fleming referenced in Thunderball, which was translated into the real aircraft, "Vulcan," in the screen version. I also think at a different level, "Vindicator" is a great action term descriptor of the James Bond character, which sounds butch yet "old school Brit."
> 
> I know that by parallel comparison in the strictest sense, these elements do not directly match up with Sean Connery in his role as Bond. But to me, due in large part to the close proximity in time, the Connery films captured the charm and ambiance that Fleming created in his novels. Here's a mock-up of my suggested scripting:


----------



## Poseidon-Jim

*Re: Project Kingston/ Looks like a great Sub design thus far Bill*

Hey Bill,

Long time it's been my friend & I was happy to see your next project unfolding as it is!

I like the looks of your drafts so far, and was thinking about mid-dial font with possible (Rolex Sub Red/Red) font, and had a few thoughts of the model name of the Watch:

Mid-dial font would look very good with a red-color font contrasting with your black upper/lower outlined font, with the possible name:

*Kingston* 
Submariner

I think you have a great basis of thought with this very appealing new project. I have always loved those early Bond location films, and it's no wonder that our friend Mr. Bond 007 made that area of Jamaica, a home away from home in real life.

I sure would love to see the width size at about 44-46mm, since my wrist are accustomed to a little larger cases, but I'm sure your customers will enjoy there watch when completed. 
*~ looks to be a fine example that "James Bond" himself would love to have!*

Good luck to you & Congratulations :-!

*Jim*
*(Poseidon-Jim)*


----------



## tallguy

Yao said:


> Thank you for taking the time to do that mock-up and detail the background that a hard core fan would know


That is very cool information....but I think we are working more on an hommage to the actual watch than to Bond himself. I hope Bill doesn't mind me quoting his comment from another forum: _"There won't be any Bond references on the watch."_

That stuff would be great on a T-Shirt, though!


----------



## Yao

*Re: Project Kingston/ Looks like a great Sub design thus far Bill*

Thanks. You are too king 



Poseidon-Jim said:


> Hey Bill,
> 
> Long time it's been my friend & I was happy to see your next project unfolding as it is!
> 
> I like the looks of your drafts so far, and was thinking about mid-dial font with possible (Rolex Sub Red/Red) font, and had a few thoughts of the model name of the Watch:
> 
> Mid-dial font would look very good with a red-color font contrasting with your black upper/lower outlined font, with the possible name:
> 
> *Kingston*
> Submariner
> 
> I think you have a great basis of thought with this very appealing new project. I have always loved those early Bond location films, and it's no wonder that our friend Mr. Bond 007 made that area of Jamaica, a home away from home in real life.
> 
> I sure would love to see the width size at about 44-46mm, since my wrist are accustomed to a little larger cases, but I'm sure your customers will enjoy there watch when completed.
> *~ looks to be a fine example that "James Bond" himself would love to have!*
> 
> Good luck to you & Congratulations :-!
> 
> *Jim*
> *(Poseidon-Jim)*


----------



## Yao

*If he doesn't mind...*

I have a different idea for the information that he has provided. Yes Tallguy is right I think the direction that we should take this is as a watch that Bond would have worn rather than an homage to JB. Omega has a good thing going with their homage watches to JB and its best to respect that.

To say the same thing a differently it would be as if one os buying the Bond Omega without all of the signage and opting for the watch that JB actually worn in the movie.

However that having been said I was thinging about a piece of swag that this dial idea would tie into very well.



tallguy said:


> That is very cool information....but I think we are working more on an hommage to the actual watch than to Bond himself. I hope Bill doesn't mind me quoting his comment from another forum: _"There won't be any Bond references on the watch."_
> 
> That stuff would be great on a T-Shirt, though!


----------



## Donald Grant

superado said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks to Donald Grant, my fellow board member at Absolutely James Bond, I was able to get my preorder among the 1st one hundred. Here's my suggestion for the lettering on the dial, based on these equivalent/symetrical elements:
> 
> (top scripting)
> "mIIk" = Rolex crown
> "ORBIS" = "ROLEX"
> "NON SUFFICIT" = "OYSTER PERPETUAL"
> 
> (bottom scripting)
> depth rating
> "VINDICATOR" = "SUBMARINER"
> 
> "Orbis Non Sufficit" of course is the Bond family motto, "The World is Not Enough" from the novel, "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." For me this is more evocative of Fleming elements vs. that of the Brosnan movie, and rendering this in Latin effectively avoids the cliche of the English translation.
> 
> "Vindicator" is the fictional RAF bomber Fleming referenced in Thunderball, which was translated into the real aircraft, "Vulcan," in the screen version. I also think at a different level, "Vindicator" is a great action term descriptor of the James Bond character, which sounds butch yet "old school Brit."
> 
> I know that by parallel comparison in the strictest sense, these elements do not directly match up with Sean Connery in his role as Bond. But to me, due in large part to the close proximity in time, the Connery films captured the charm and ambiance that Fleming created in his novels. Here's a mock-up of my suggested scripting:


Supes, that's very interesting. Glad you are in on this. I like the "vindicator" part, but I think the motto is too much of a Bond nod for most of the people here. Still, I know you have more subtle Bond references up you're sleeve, so have at it. Run them up the old flagpole and see who salutes it . Again, glad you are aboard. Bill makes an excellent watch too, you won't be dissapointed.

DG


----------



## Yao

Yes. I would encourage you to keep posting your ideas. :-!



Donald Grant said:


> Supes, that's very interesting. Glad you are in on this. I like the "vindicator" part, but I think the motto is too much of a Bond nod for most of the people here. Still, I know you have more subtle Bond references up you're sleeve, so have at it. Run them up the old flagpole and see who salutes it . Again, glad you are aboard. Bill makes an excellent watch too, you won't be dissapointed.
> 
> DG


----------



## NWP627

*Re: If he doesn't mind...*



Yao said:


> However that having been said I was thinging about a piece of swag that this dial idea would tie into very well.


Bill,
You can't just stop writing there - swag, tie in - some more information please.
N


----------



## giosdad

*Re: If he doesn't mind...*



Yao said:


> I have a different idea for the information that he has provided.
> 
> However that having been said I was thinging about a piece of swag that this dial idea would tie into very well.


I like the sound of this. :-!


----------



## superado

*Re: If he doesn't mind...*



Yao said:


> I have a different idea for the information that he has provided. Yes Tallguy is right I think the direction that we should take this is as a watch that Bond would have worn rather than an homage to JB. Omega has a good thing going with their homage watches to JB and its best to respect that.
> 
> To say the same thing a differently it would be as if one os buying the Bond Omega without all of the signage and opting for the watch that JB actually worn in the movie.
> 
> However that having been said I was thinging about a piece of swag that this dial idea would tie into very well.


Thanks Bill and others for the feedback. Yes, I see the value in not duplicating the Omega/Swatch "gimmick".

A fictional watch that JB himself would have worn? Hmm...Fleming took a liking to terms, obscure words and brand names that were stylish in sound and/or how it read in print, which for example is how he coined "Vindicator."

For argument's sake, "Orbit Non Sufficet" wasn't Bond's own. As an extension of what Fleming would himself do, Bond just happened to come across this term, which he instantly identified with and informally "adopted" as a motto worthy of his own philosophy in life. Considering Bond's near-sacred regard for his carefully selected personal effects, the dynamics involved in choosing "Orbit Non Sufficet" is no different from how Bond would internalize a new watch and its qualities for purchase. 

Barring the heraldry episode from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," imagine Bond at a renowned bespoke watchmaker's shop somewhere in Geneva. Looking for a piece that meets the requirements of his professional, sporting and social activities, a military styled diving watch named "Vindicator" with the words, "Orbit Non Sufficet" catches his eye. Once he learns what that means, his decision is made. b-)


----------



## Yao

*Don't get too excited*

its not like I will be giving away DB4s and dates with Eva Green. I haven't said anything up to this point because I am not sure I am going to do it. I would rather spend more money on making the watch as nice as it can be than trinkets.



giosdad said:


> I like the sound of this. :-!


----------



## gerard88t

In the final design I really only hope it's an homage to the style and design of the Submariner 6538 of yesteryear and not really at all having a "James Bond" affect. I hope it's an attractive, but simple hardworking tool watch and not much more.


----------



## planetg

i agree with that not-too-much-bond-effect. i'll talk abt it when people start asking abt the watch!


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Don't get too excited*



Yao said:


> its not like I will be giving away DB4s and dates with Eva Green. I haven't said anything up to this point because I am not sure I am going to do it. I would rather spend more money on making the watch as nice as it can be than trinkets.


Agreed. At this point the watch ( and additional items) is a great value. We know from experience the craftmanship we will receive from you and would rather you spend the time and money on making the watch.

Anything is an added bonus. As far as Eva Green  you don't have to arrange the dates, just have her at the unveiling party (GTG). We can have it in NYC. :-d Sorry lost focus for a moment. Back to the important things........at least here on the forum..... the watch.


----------



## andrewb

*Re: Don't get too excited*

One of Bonds top requirements of a watch and a reason he particularly liked Rolex was that due to its size and weight it could be rapped around your knuckles and used to cram a SMERSH henchmans skull in. Dont know if this was in Bills thinking though.........

As for dates with Eva I discussed it at breakfast with her this morning and she is not interested.


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

*Re: Don't get too excited*



andrewb said:


> it could be rapped around your knuckles and used to cram a SMERSH henchmans skull in. .


 A pair of Mark II brass knuckles maybe? I can think of some occasions and places where I could put those to use. b-)

Independent of any swag for the Kingston, maybe Bill could print up some t-shirts sometime with the Mark II logo and sell them. Maybe black with the logo in white with "gilt" surround?


----------



## tallguy

*Re: Don't get too excited*



andrewb said:


> One of Bonds top requirements of a watch and a reason he particularly liked Rolex was that due to its size and weight it could be rapped around your knuckles and used to cram a SMERSH henchmans skull in. Dont know if this was in Bills thinking though.........
> 
> As for dates with Eva I discussed it at breakfast with her this morning and she is not interested.


 Yeah, but in the Fleming book I read (can't remember which one), when he did that he smashed the watch and had to replace ito|


----------



## cpotters

*Re: Don't get too excited*

Thus, the value of a sapphire crystal (he, he)!


----------



## Recht

Rob T said:


> You are thinking a dial like this, but with less script perhaps:


I like this style of dial. Perhaps we could call it the MKII Royal Prince. I also like the "smiling" self-winding.


----------



## Yao

*I am pretty sure we can use the words...*

"Self-Winding" if the group decides that's the way to go but the lay out is something I don't think we can use. The layout I am pretty sure would be copyrighted.



Recht said:


> I like this style of dial. Perhaps we could call it the MKII Royal Prince. I also like the "smiling" self-winding.


----------



## dosei

*Re: I am pretty sure we can use the words...*

I do not prefer "Self-Winding" on the watch. It doesn't have a high quality sound to it. I can't really explain myself and would not necessarily cancel my order but seeing "Self-Winding" on a watch would not compel me to desire it. Personally I would prefer "Automatic" over "Self-Winding."


----------



## sschum

I much prefer "Automatic" to "Self-Winding". But maybe it's just me :-x


----------



## lichmd

sschum said:


> i much prefer "automatic" to "self-winding". But maybe it's just me :-x


+1


----------



## k7lro

sschum said:


> ....."Automatic" to "Self-Winding"......


Which would be more correct in a watch of this era?


----------



## Rob T

"Automatic" sounds way to modern to me. Like car transmissions that change gear for you, or cameras that focus by themselves, or washing machines that add detergent, fabric softener, and rinse all with one press of the button.

"Self-Winding" has a much more vintage ring to it. 

But that's just me.

Rob.


----------



## goz211

Great looking watch Bill. Great concept and homage.
I've put my pre-order in. I'll be looking forward to seeing the finished product in Q4!


----------



## Cowbiker

On the sidelines on this one, but just wanted to comment that the amount of buzz and interest this one has generated surpassed my expectations.

Nicely done Bill, looks like it's going to be a hit.


----------



## Farrell

New member, here for the mkII content, mainly the Kingston. My bit:

Kingston and nassau are the _only_ names on here so far that fit. Some of the rest have been pretty lame.

Name, mkII, depth rating and maybe automatic/self-winding. Nothing else.

No more reference than the name.

Blank back piece. No designs. Serial number is allowed. Stamped.

I'd love the date dial to be included as the second dial, as I am a date man myself (although it looks pretty sweet without) and I'd like the option.

The size is good. I'd prefer slightly smaller, but 39 is a really good size.

Thanks, really looking forward to seeing this progress ans arrive at my door.


----------



## Thieuster

I visited The Hague (The Netherlands) a few days back. There are several classic watch shops near the Royal Palace. One of the shops had a few old Rolex watches on display. I went into the store and had a closer look. Tried them on. They were for sale (off course). The asking price for the oldest one (early 60s Submariner) came close to the price of a very, very nice car... Nice watch, not restored, only serviced. Well, that's what the shop owner told me.

Anyway, I noticed the serial number being stamped on the case, not on the back. I had seen something like that on pictures before. Somehow, it I didn't catch it. But now I've seen it 'in real life', I think it's a nice feature on the Kingston watch too: the serial number and production year between the lugs! Something like: *031/300-09*.

What's your opinion?

Menno


----------



## SeikoSickness

Thieuster said:


> Anyway, I noticed the serial number being stamped on the case, not on the back. I had seen something like that on pictures before. Somehow, it I didn't catch it. But now I've seen it 'in real life', I think it's a nice feature on the Kingston watch too: the serial number and production year between the lugs! Something like: *031/300-09*.


That's very interesting. But, I have a question. Since the first 100 pre-orders will receive a spare case and plenty of other components...would a serial number be on that case as well? Since a spare case back is not being offered, I would suspect that the serial number would be on it.


----------



## Donald Grant

Thieuster said:


> I visited The Hague (The Netherlands) a few days back. There are several classic watch shops near the Royal Palace. One of the shops had a few old Rolex watches on display. I went into the store and had a closer look. Tried them on. They were for sale (off course). The asking price for the oldest one (early 60s Submariner) came close to the price of a very, very nice car... Nice watch, not restored, only serviced. Well, that's what the shop owner told me.
> 
> Anyway, I noticed the serial number being stamped on the case, not on the back. I had seen something like that on pictures before. Somehow, it I didn't catch it. But now I've seen it 'in real life', I think it's a nice feature on the Kingston watch too: the serial number and production year between the lugs! Something like: *031/300-09*.
> 
> What's your opinion?
> 
> Menno


The originals had the serial number between the lugs at 6 o'clock, and the model number (like 6538) between the lugs at 12 o'clock. The date identifier is on the inside of the case back (ex. IV 58 for fourth quarter of 1958).

DG


----------



## Yao

*I think it best from a production perspective...*

to keep the serial number on the back. This will give me the most flexibility in weeding out any damaged case bodies. If the case back you are assigned has some damage and we have to use it at least its somewhere you can't see. On the other hand if the case body is damaged during inspection or handling then you are pretty much SOL. Usually case backs have a low defect rate.


----------



## obie

*Re: I think it best from a production perspective...*

While I like the idea of having the model and serial # on the inside of the lugs, with the spare cases being offered with this piece, it would make sense to have the info on the case back, in the event that the other case it used.


----------



## Donald Grant

Bill,

A number of AJBers (Absolutely James Bond) have asked me about how I think this project is progressing. I've told them I think it is going well. I think most of their concerns revolve around thing's that were not on Connery's watch that are being discussed, ie red bezel triangles, extra minute markers on the bezel between 0 and 15, silver hands, etc. The Bond guys are concerned that the Bond options will be available and not polled out of existence. They want their watch to look the way Bond's did.

I told them I think it will boil down to what final options will be available so that the watch they buy can be optioned to look Connery/Bond correct. As I see it, this is all part of the process, but perhaps you can speak to this issue.

DG


----------



## k7lro

Good points Donald - I suspect that I've contributed to that by comparing other (older) Rolex watches to this project and not completely understanding Bill's original vision. 

If it comes for a vote and there isn't an option to purchase a spare bezel with the red triangle and minute markers, I'll vote in favor of the one that most favors the Connery watch.


----------



## Yao

*Let me assure them that the....*

primary goal here is to produce an homage to the Bond Sub as seen in the movies. That being said there will be two bezel insert options. One of them will have a red triangle and minute markers. The other one will be just like the one in the movie with the exception of the plastic lume dot. The lume dot will be a conventional recessed lume dot like you see on the Sea Fighter in the banner at the top of the forum.



Donald Grant said:


> Bill,
> 
> A number of AJBers (Absolutely James Bond) have asked me about how I think this project is progressing. I've told them I think it is going well. I think most of their concerns revolve around thing's that were not on Connery's watch that are being discussed, ie red bezel triangles, extra minute markers on the bezel between 0 and 15, silver hands, etc. The Bond guys are concerned that the Bond options will be available and not polled out of existence. They want their watch to look the way Bond's did.
> 
> I told them I think it will boil down to what final options will be available so that the watch they buy can be optioned to look Connery/Bond correct. As I see it, this is all part of the process, but perhaps you can speak to this issue.
> 
> DG


----------



## Donald Grant

That sounds good to me.

Thanks,

DG


----------



## siggy

Bill,

Here's a link to pics of an unpolished case ( in case you haven't seen them ;-) )

http://www.network54.com/Forum/2075...o+-+here+are+the+rest+of+my+BC+SCANS+&gt;&gt;

regards

siggy


----------



## Marc7300

OMG...! these pics are just great!


----------



## giosdad

siggy said:


> Bill,
> 
> Here's a link to pics of an unpolished case ( in case you haven't seen them ;-) )
> 
> http://www.network54.com/Forum/2075...o+-+here+are+the+rest+of+my+BC+SCANS+&gt;&gt;
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


Outstanding Pictures!!


----------



## bompi

By the way, I may have missed it but : what about the crown ? I mean, do you intend to put anything on it (MKII, a symbol or whatever) ?


----------



## GraniteQuarry

siggy said:


> Bill,
> 
> Here's a link to pics of an unpolished case ( in case you haven't seen them ;-) )
> 
> http://www.network54.com/Forum/2075...o+-+here+are+the+rest+of+my+BC+SCANS+&gt;&gt;
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


OMG if we can get it similar to that i'd be VERY happy :-!


----------



## Thieuster

WOW! I keep looking at these pictures. The detail is awesome. I'm sure mr Yao had something similar in mind when he started this project.

I was wearing my Stingray70 earlier this week and I was (again) amazed how beautiful and 'clean' this watch really is. This- combined with the amazing pics- gives me high hopes.

btw: I really love the red triangle!

Menno


----------



## Yao

*Crown will be signed....*

with my logo.



bompi said:


> By the way, I may have missed it but : what about the crown ? I mean, do you intend to put anything on it (MKII, a symbol or whatever) ?


----------



## Yao

*The more you look at this case...*

the more you realize how much variance that you see even in the cases for one model. But yes this is what I am shooting for as far as case goes. The R. Maron pics of the 6538 are not as useful because the case was heavily refinished.



GraniteQuarry said:


> OMG if we can get it similar to that i'd be VERY happy :-!


----------



## bompi

*Re: Crown will be signed....*



Yao said:


> with my logo.


OK. Thanks.


----------



## Farrell

*Re: Crown will be signed....*

That acrylic (?)! It's gorgeous!


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: Let me assure them that the....*



Yao said:


> primary goal here is to produce an homage to the Bond Sub as seen in the movies. That being said there will be two bezel insert options. One of them will have a red triangle and minute markers. The other one will be just like the one in the movie with the exception of the plastic lume dot. The lume dot will be a conventional recessed lume dot like you see on the Sea Fighter in the banner at the top of the forum.


Bill,

Regarding the different bezel options. Will we be able to get both if we want, so we could change them up? Any idea how much extra this might run?


----------



## Yao

*If you are one of the "plank-owner"*

pre-orders yes you can choose that as the alternate bezel for your watch.



MatKid152 said:


> Bill,
> 
> Regarding the different bezel options. Will we be able to get both if we want, so we could change them up? Any idea how much extra this might run?


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: If you are one of the "plank-owner"*



Yao said:


> pre-orders yes you can choose that as the alternate bezel for your watch.


I am a "plank owner" so that sounds great. Thanks.


----------



## manitoujoe

*Re: If you are one of the "plank-owner"*

I am loving this...


----------



## giosdad

*Re: If you are one of the "plank-owner"*



manitoujoe said:


> I am loving this...


That makes two of us. I am still fairly new to watch collecting (just over a year) and am thrilled to be involved in this project from it's inception.


----------



## Thieuster

> I am still fairly new to watch collecting


Well, you have a great collection according to your 'daily rotation's' list!
I'm sure the Kingston will fit in nicely!

Menno


----------



## manitoujoe

I think what makes this one so special is that Bill is heading it up, which means Quality, and having a say in what you want (whether you get it or not), just helps make a project like this much more personal. 

And that is pretty special. 

Mark


----------



## giosdad

Thieuster said:


> Well, you have a great collection according to your 'daily rotation's' list!
> I'm sure the Kingston will fit in nicely!
> 
> Menno


THanks Menno


----------



## cpotters

What alot of the forum participants may not have pondered is that this process - a lead vision by a designer (Bill) complemented in real-time DURING development by client input (us) is VERY unique. 

Several other people from other industries have been watching this process on this forum to see how it goes. Imagine if automobile designers, computer hardware manufacturers, et.al. were able to make "semi-custom" productsin this manner. If you think this process has been fun for a quality watch, try to imagine what it would be like for your next car.


----------



## Farrell

Insane. that is how it would be. Frustrating too, as I question your average person's ability to make decent judgements.

Not that many people want this watch, not compared to how mnay would be buying a car. I dont think the scale allows for straight comparison, but I take your sentiment and agree with it.

What's this plank pre-order? the fist 100? if so then I know what I am


----------



## cpotters

It could definitely be insane on a large scale, but thinking smaller - like "plank pre-orders" for a Shelby GT-500, or an Apple "Titanium" Probook/I-phone combination. Everything that you've ever ordered from a a manufacturer with the designation "limited edition" that actually WAS a limited edition (my apologies to Franklin Mint collectors) could follow this process.

Remember - this is no democracy: Bill's vision for this watch is paramount, and the final product will be his "baby". 

Our input helps act as a real-time guide, and only an online forum give the technology for like-minded enthusiast to not only pass their "thoughts" on to the designers, but also exchange their ideas with each other, and allow everyone to "take each others temperature" (Kingston or Nassau, Yellow or Blue lume, Date/no date). 

I've learned a lot about watches and collecting by participating in this forum, and I've collected watches off and on for 40 years. Definitely - this has been a first!


----------



## siggy

cpotters said:


> Remember - this is no democracy: Bill's vision for this watch is paramount, and the final product will be his "baby".


I agree, while each of our individual suggestions may be sensible, taken together they may just look a complete mess. Working out what can work together and what to leave out is a job for one person and in this case it's Bill. Given his past projects I'm very happy to trust to Bill's sense of style.

regards

siggy


----------



## bompi

BTW regarding the caseback : how do you see its shape ? I'd rather like a r*lex/tud*r one (with many notches (if it's the right noun for it)) than the average usual caseback.


----------



## Yao

*Updated draft of the case design*










The bezel insert still needs some work design wise (any input is welcome).

The crown is based on the drawing that the mfg supplied to me so it is to scale. It doesn't mean it is set in stone yet but the drawing is an accurate representation of what is currently "on order". The crown will be a trip-lock style crown.

The dial has been updated with "Auto-Winding" and "Kingston" and is printed in a Copperplate Gothic Light font. If you guys have an opinion about the font please let me know.

Also the side view of the case body has been updated and the case back as well. The detail of the case back is not currently illustrated. The side profile of the main case body is something that I am happy with and represents my interpretation of the many different versions I have seen of the 6538 case body. Unfortunately there is no "definitive" side view that I know of so if anyone has an opinion about the shape please let me know.


----------



## J.B. Books

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*



Yao said:


>




Looks good to me!


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

I think this looks very good. The bezel looks the same as some of the screen shots from the bond movies I have collected. I like the auto-winding and kingston color and font.

The side view initially seemed show the lugs as being too short and curved, though not a real side view, a picture that I have that is a partial side view gives that illusion as well. (If I can figure out who to credit the pictures to I will post them. My note says they were posted by a Steve P. If Steve P is here maybe he can post them. I am not sure if it was here or a rolex forum)


----------



## timbo

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

Gazoinks!! Beautiful!

I love the choice of font on the dial - perfectly understated class. The only thing I would change is the hyphen in AUTO-WINDING. I think if it were all one word with your current kerning it would look better. Or not 

Crown is great, I love the logo and those serrations add chunky goodness.

I love the stubby lugs and the beveling. She's going to have a great profile with the sapphire dome up above the bezel and that big crown.

I have a theory that the bezel on the Bond sub actually came from a 6536. All the 6538s I've seen have hash marks to 3 o'clock, squared font for the numbers, and often have the red triangle at 12. The bond bezel has rounder numbers, thicker markers, no hash marks, and looser kerning on the numerals - just like the 6536 here: 









Also note the 'pie' shaped 12 o'clock marker on the bezel. I believe it's painted right to the edge. It actually appears the markers at 12, 3 and 9 are all painted to the edge, whereas the markers at 1, 5, 7 and 11 have a bit of space.

Check out this site for some side by side shots of the early models with different bezel configs (warning French!).


----------



## k7lro

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*



timbo said:


>





Yao said:


> The bezel insert still needs some work design wise (any input is welcome).


I like the thicker markers at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11. The ones on Bill's drawing seem to be a little too thin for my taste. My taste is somewhat suspect so I'll leave it to the gallery here. ;-)


----------



## cpotters

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

Now now now now now now now now now now
Can I Get it NOW? Please? PLEEEEEEEEEEZ? I've been good. Really good.
OK, I'm going to go outside now and stare at my mailbox. Thanks, Bill - my family is delighted I found a watch to fixate on.


----------



## Steve356

that looks great.
Is it still possible to make the caseback a little thinner? maybe it's the picture, but I am afraid it might be a little too chunky for the diameter.


----------



## Donald Grant

Bezel markers definitely need to be thicker. The depth rating should not go beyond the edges of the word "Kingston". Otherwise, it looks very good.

DG


----------



## siggy

Good Bill, lots of things to check out.
I see that you have adjusted the bezel profile, looks good. Font of the depth rating 200M - 660FT, the letters should be more curly, italics sort of font.

Back with more later ;-)

regards

siggy


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

I like. The depth rating fonts might need to be in some more stylized cursive script, but I don't know what specific font that would be. To Donald Grant's point, the bezel markers are a bit thinner than the 6538's images, but I like the thinner ones better anyway - go figure. In a nutshell, I'd be happy to pull the trigger now.

Will there be a non-gilt dial and hand option, for those who want to match the examples with white printing and silver hands? An alternate bezel with red triangle for the 6538 purists too?


----------



## MDS

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*



Yao said:


> The bezel insert still needs some work design wise (any input is welcome).
> 
> The crown is based on the drawing that the mfg supplied to me so it is to scale. It doesn't mean it is set in stone yet but the drawing is an accurate representation of what is currently "on order". The crown will be a trip-lock style crown.
> 
> The dial has been updated with "Auto-Winding" and "Kingston" and is printed in a Copperplate Gothic Light font. If you guys have an opinion about the font please let me know.
> 
> Also the side view of the case body has been updated and the case back as well. The detail of the case back is not currently illustrated. The side profile of the main case body is something that I am happy with and represents my interpretation of the many different versions I have seen of the 6538 case body. Unfortunately there is no "definitive" side view that I know of so if anyone has an opinion about the shape please let me know.


Hi Bill,

I think it looks great. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd change anything at this point. Colors, fonts...it all looks great - it seems to capture the spirit of the original without mimicing every detail, which is what I really like about your watches. Love the crown. I'm really looking forward to it.

I do have one question that I posed in an earlier thread, but I'm guessing you didn't see. I was wondering what you were thinking about for the bezel on the Kingston? 120 uni-directional like on your other watches? Or something else?

I'm not sure what the original was (bi-directional friction maybe?), but I think that a uni-directional 120 click bezel like on the Stingray and SeaFighter would seem to fit in with the idea of vintage styling and modern function like with your other watches. Just my thoughts.

Thanks

Mike


----------



## GregoryD

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

Wow, the watch looks really great so far! I'm not crazy about the "auto-winding" wording on the dial - I think it would be just fine without it. But, I see how it's kind of retro-sounding and fits with the style of the watch.
The fonts on the dial look really good to me, I don't know if there's anything I would change about it.
I like the thinner bezel markings at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11, as you have them now. The thicker bezel markings on the original looks slightly cruder or clumsier to me.
The case back currently has three "steps" to it, and it looks like it might sit up fairly high on the wrist. Do you think the final version of the case back will have to have three steps and/or sit up as high?

Thanks,

Greg


----------



## siggy

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*



GregoryD said:


> The case back currently has three "steps" to it, and it looks like it might sit up fairly high on the wrist. Do you think the final version of the case back will have to have three steps and/or sit up as high?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Greg


Bill posted earlier that the caseback depth is to prevent the larger than normal crown digging into peoples wrists. I think it is a fine line between a too deep caseback and what makes the crown comfy but that draft looks about right to me.

The turn down in the lugs should help make it appear to sit lower. The Kingston's lug to lug length of 47.90 mm is exactly the same as the modern Rolex Sea Dweller. The Sea Dweller's lugs don't seem to turn down as much as the Kingston's lugs.

I think the Kingston should look and feel very similar to the Sea Dweller on the wrist, even the Sea Dwellers crown is 7mm ( 6.96mm, more accurately ). All the basic dimensions are either the same or very similar to within half a millimeter or less then the Sea Dweller so no need for us to worry that the Kingston look like a smaller than normal watch.

regards

siggy


----------



## Tetraflop

Like the thinner bezel markings.

Dietmar


----------



## Galpo

I can't believe that this project is actually happens. 
I look at these drafts and a stupid smile spreads all over my face.
I keep pinching myself to make sure it's not a dream...

That watch is all I need to be happy, I say GO!
From the day I saw Dr. No, back in '75 (I was only 8) until today,
I've been waiting for this watch. And it's gonna be very hard to wait any longer!

And to be of some help, I think the dial is just fine, maybe considering 
A "serif" font for the 200m-660ft will be a good idea. 
I also think that the size of the bezel font should be a little smaller, creating a tiny gap between the number and the
inner diameter, like in this pic that Mr. Yao has posted ("from Russia with love") 










Besides those remarks (which are mineor and not important to me),
it's the WAITING that concerns me.
What will help me pass those days? I don't know 

Thank you again Mr. Yao, for this great project.


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*



siggy said:


> Bill posted earlier that the caseback depth is to prevent the larger than normal crown digging into peoples wrists. I think it is a fine line between a too deep caseback and what makes the crown comfy but that draft looks about right to me.


Great point and one that needs to be addressed for wearing comfort. I sold a manual winding watch which had a flat case back because the crown irritated the back of my hand and wrist as it was always riding on it. At the end of the day it looks like somebody carved away at my hand.



siggy said:


> I think the Kingston should look and feel very similar to the Sea Dweller on the wrist, even the Sea Dwellers crown is 7mm ( 6.96mm, more accurately ). All the basic dimensions are either the same or very similar to within half a millimeter or less then the Sea Dweller so no need for us to worry that the Kingston look like a smaller than normal watch.
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


Another great point as many people I have spoken to are concerned about the size. With this perspective this concerns should be addressed. The Sea Dweller is first on my list when I make the jump to a Rolex.


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

The suggestions for a more cursive font or serif for the depth rating might be a good idea. Could we see a mock-up of that?


----------



## MartinCRC

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

This looks excellent. Can we have an update on what if anything is happening about a date option for the dial? My personal preference would be for a circular hole at the 4.30 position: inconspicuous and does not spoil the symmetry of the horizontal markers at the 3 and 9 positions. Will such options be available to those signing up for the second round of pre-orders?

Martin


----------



## Rob T

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

Two thumbs up! Only suggestion would be a more cursive font for the depth rating. But otherwise looks terriffic.

Rob.


----------



## tallguy

My goodness fellas, we can't micromanage this thing to death:-x:-x:-x! Looks great! (Will it still have drilled lugs?:think


----------



## Yao

*Most definitely....*

and I think we will be able to make the watch compatible with the SAR spring bars as well.



tallguy said:


> My goodness fellas, we can't micromanage this thing to death:-x:-x:-x! Looks great! (Will it still have drilled lugs?:think


----------



## Yao

*Yes...*

I am missing part of that font (the italics bit) I have to purchase more of that font and I should be able to italicize the "M" and "FT" per the original.



Rob T said:


> Two thumbs up! Only suggestion would be a more cursive font for the depth rating. But otherwise looks terriffic.
> 
> Rob.


----------



## Yao

*Sorry that is off the table for...*

this project. Date window dial will have its opening at 3.



MartinCRC said:


> This looks excellent. Can we have an update on what if anything is happening about a date option for the dial? My personal preference would be for a circular hole at the 4.30 position: inconspicuous and does not spoil the symmetry of the horizontal markers at the 3 and 9 positions. Will such options be available to those signing up for the second round of pre-orders?
> 
> Martin


----------



## Yao

*Hi Mike...*

we will be using a 60-click bezel on this one the same as the LRRP.



MDS said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> I think it looks great. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd change anything at this point. Colors, fonts...it all looks great - it seems to capture the spirit of the original without mimicing every detail, which is what I really like about your watches. Love the crown. I'm really looking forward to it.
> 
> I do have one question that I posed in an earlier thread, but I'm guessing you didn't see. I was wondering what you were thinking about for the bezel on the Kingston? 120 uni-directional like on your other watches? Or something else?
> 
> I'm not sure what the original was (bi-directional friction maybe?), but I think that a uni-directional 120 click bezel like on the Stingray and SeaFighter would seem to fit in with the idea of vintage styling and modern function like with your other watches. Just my thoughts.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike


----------



## Yao

*I will look at the thickness more carefullly*

before we are ready to pull the trigger on the final drawings. But the thicker case back as noted by others is meant to keep the extra large crown from turning your arm into ground beef. ;-)



Steve356 said:


> that looks great.
> Is it still possible to make the caseback a little thinner? maybe it's the picture, but I am afraid it might be a little too chunky for the diameter.


----------



## lichmd

*Re: I will look at the thickness more carefullly*



Yao said:


> before we are ready to pull the trigger on the final drawings. But the thicker case back as noted by others is meant to keep the extra large crown from turning your arm into ground beef. ;-)


Bill,
I completely agree with this.
I had to sell my PAM 183 because the crown was just incredibly uncomfortable. Anything we can do to make the watch comfortable gets my vote. Unless you want to make a dextro configuration as an option?


----------



## MDS

*Re: Hi Mike...*



Yao said:


> we will be using a 60-click bezel on this one the same as the LRRP.


Thanks Bill. unidirectional like the milsub version, I assume...that works for me.

By the way, I also like the thinnner markers on the bezel insert.

Thanks

Mike


----------



## MartinCRC

*Re: Sorry that is off the table for...*



Yao said:


> this project. Date window dial will have its opening at 3.


Ok, that's fair enough. It will still look terrific with the date at 3. Will this option be open to round 2 pre-orders?

Thanks
Martin


----------



## Dave E

That's looking rather good, I'll be interested to see the version with the italics, and I'm glad about the drilled lugs.

Is there going to be a chance to see the date dial configuration? I'll be getting mine with the date dial installed and the non-date as spare.


----------



## goz211

*Re: Updated draft of the case design*

Bill,
I like the way the watch looks at this point. I'm happy with your decision to go with the gilt hands. 
One topic I have not seen discussed is the finish of the case. I'm assuming it will be all brushed?
There are many reference images on Antiquorum that show the original finish of the 6538. It also looks like the original bezel versions are different, and I'm happy you've given us a choice on what bezel design will be included with our watches.
http://images.antiquorum.com/208/full/59.jpg
Great project! Thanks Bill!


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Yes...*



Yao said:


> I am missing part of that font (the italics bit) I have to purchase more of that font and I should be able to italicize the "M" and "FT" per the original.


Perfect. Sound like another item you had worked out before it was suggested.


----------



## Yao

*I sensed that you guys...*

would want that detail added by the types of comments I was getting.



giosdad said:


> Perfect. Sound like another item you had worked out before it was suggested.


----------



## GraniteQuarry

Dave E said:


> That's looking rather good, I'll be interested to see the version with the italics, and I'm glad about the drilled lugs.


+1

Looks pretty damn good to me. :-!

Maybe red triangle on the bezel, not sure if this idea has been canned ??


----------



## Yao

*That will be the secondary bezel....*

the one shown here is the "primary".



GraniteQuarry said:


> +1
> 
> Looks pretty damn good to me. :-!
> 
> Maybe red triangle on the bezel, not sure if this idea has been canned ??


----------



## GraniteQuarry

*Re: That will be the secondary bezel....*



Yao said:


> the one shown here is the "primary".


Aha gotcha, cheers for clarifying Bill


----------



## Yao

*Okay.....*

I got some of the SAR spring bars in courtesy of CountyComm and they fit perfectly into the Vantage. The Kingston should be compatible with these bars as well.



GraniteQuarry said:


> Aha gotcha, cheers for clarifying Bill


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: Okay.....*



Yao said:


> I got some of the SAR spring bars in courtesy of CountyComm and they fit perfectly into the Vantage. The Kingston should be compatible with these bars as well.


Bill what are the advantage to the SAR spring bars again? Are they shoulderless to look better with NATO straps or something?


----------



## Duarte

Bill,
I am wondering if the caseback will be the oyster style, maybe with slots also? The Singapore Sandoz sub style has this caseback design, and it is nice compromise.


----------



## Steve356

*Re: Okay.....*



Yao said:


> I got some of the SAR spring bars in courtesy of CountyComm and they fit perfectly into the Vantage. The Kingston should be compatible with these bars as well.


That is great news! b-)


----------



## Steve356

*Re: Okay.....*



MatKid152 said:


> Bill what are the advantage to the SAR spring bars again? Are they shoulderless to look better with NATO straps or something?


they are sholderless and so are much more secure in attachment.


----------



## NWP627

*Re: Okay.....*



Yao said:


> I got some of the SAR spring bars in courtesy of CountyComm and they fit perfectly into the Vantage. The Kingston should be compatible with these bars as well.


Bill,
Are you going to use the SAR spring bars in the production Kingston or will you make them available as an option?
N


----------



## Yao

*I am aiming for a hybrid just like...*

you mentioned.



Duarte said:


> Bill,
> I am wondering if the caseback will be the oyster style, maybe with slots also? The Singapore Sandoz sub style has this caseback design, and it is nice compromise.


----------



## Yao

*We'll see how much they cost to make...*

I have a rfq for the bars out. We'll see how much they cost. Otherwise they will be available from CountyComm.



NWP627 said:


> Bill,
> Are you going to use the SAR spring bars in the production Kingston or will you make them available as an option?
> N


----------



## k7lro

If you're not familiar with what RFQ means, it's short for 'request for quotation'.


----------



## J.B. Books

k7lro said:


> If you're not familiar with what RFQ means, it's short for 'request for quotation'.


Good to know, thank you.


----------



## Reintitan

*I like it >>>*



Yao said:


> The bezel insert still needs some work design wise (any input is welcome).


Just curious, when did "AUTOMATIC" or "SELF-WINDING" get replaced by "AUTO-WINDING"? Was it a merging of the two words? :-d

As for the bezel insert, I'm a fan of the red triangle (which as I understand it will be an option). But the numbers on the bezel insert could be a little thicker and the font for the numbers themselves: the top (and bottom) of the curves in numbers like 0, 2, 3, and 5 could be a little flatter as per the vintage font. I wish I knew which font Rolex used for their inserts.


----------



## Yao

*Curious to know if you like...*

"Auto-winding" or not. I thought it would a nice way to sound vintage but still have it look better than "Self-winding".



Reintitan said:


> Just curious, when did "AUTOMATIC" or "SELF-WINDING" get replaced by "AUTO-WINDING"? Was it a merging of the two words? :-d
> 
> As for the bezel insert, I'm a fan of the red triangle (which as I understand it will be an option). But the numbers on the bezel insert could be a little thicker and the font for the numbers themselves: the top (and bottom) of the curves in numbers like 0, 2, 3, and 5 could be a little flatter as per the vintage font. I wish I knew which font Rolex used for their inserts.


----------



## Recht

Wow this is really big time now.:-!


----------



## Ken268

*Re: Curious to know if you like...*



Yao said:


> "Auto-winding" or not. I thought it would a nice way to sound vintage but still have it look better than "Self-winding".


Bill - my vote would be for Automatic over Auto-winding.

In my opinion - and I say this without prejudice - I find the word combination "Auto-winding" awkward. I don't know what it is...I can't pinpoint it.

That said, I'd defer to you since it is your product we're buying!

Sincerely, and respectfully,

Ken


----------



## ScottH

*So far I really like everything...*

I'm seeing. I think "Auto-Winding" is a good choice since it is visually longer than "Automatic" and takes up about the same space on the dial as "Oyster Perpetual". Going for a more slanted font for the "m" and "ft" is also the right thing to do. I like the thick caseback so the crown will have some clearance. All in all I like the the more modern technical elements like the 60 click bezel and the sapphire crystal but keeping this thing looking as close to the originals is paramount. I'm really looking forward to having this piece on my wrist.


----------



## J.B. Books

*Re: So far I really like everything...*

Personally I like Auto-Winding over Automatic. I feel Auto-Winding does have that retro sound to it and like ScottH pointed out, it does take up closer to the same space as Oyster Perpetual.
Automatic sounds more machine-oriented to me (something I expect to hear in reference to a car or a rifle).


----------



## Reintitan

*I like it! >>>*



Yao said:


> "Auto-winding" or not. I thought it would a nice way to sound vintage but still have it look better than "Self-winding".


I prefer it over "Self-Winding" which is a Tudor phrase, not a Rolex one. ;-)

The font for "KINGSTON". Hmmm...The original font in the earlier iteration looked more "vintagey". But this current font looks very similar to the modern Subs. Both are good, but I'm not sure what is "better" in this case.


----------



## Duarte

I like Auto-winding. Nice compromise over Automatic vs. Self-winding :-!


----------



## tallguy

duarte said:


> i like auto-winding. Nice compromise over automatic vs. Self-winding :-!


 +1|>


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

*Re: Curious to know if you like...*

I like "AUTO-WINDING". "Self winding" works too, but somehow the "AUTO-WINDING" has its own unique feel to it. And I trust no trademark issues.|>


----------



## cpotters

Auto-winding AOK


----------



## bompi

+1 for Auto-Winding, which has a nice vintage taste [at least for a non-native English speaker ;-)]

Maybe a poll could help making the final choice ?


----------



## Cat91

cpotters said:


> Auto-winding AOK


I'm down with it. This is too cool.

Miao, Cat


----------



## TOKI188

The watch is looking fantastic Bill, it's going to be tough waiting for this one.

Auto-Winding sounds, and looks, great to me.

Arthur


----------



## Recht

I'm going with Self-Winding. I just think it is more horologically accurate, dating back to Harwoods' patent from 1923. Auto-winding seems more film/camera related to me.


----------



## Dave E

I like Auto-winding, it's a touch different but still sounds right to my ears.


----------



## siggy

Hi Bill,

Everything is looking good, seems to be coming together very well.

You have probably thought of this already as you seem to have covered most of the topics raised. You mention you are mounting the crystal higher than you normally would on a watch with a sapphire crystal to achieve a more "acrylic" effect I am guessing that you also would have moved the dial as high up as possible? This might also make it seem more like an acrylic watch as people tend to associate the deep set dials with sapphire. If this then allows you to position the movement higher and therefore the crown stem and crown higher it might move the crown just that bit farther from the wrist and slightly reduce the need for the thick caseback. 

I can't tell from your sketches but I'm guessing you are probably thinking along these lines anyway?

regards

siggy


----------



## Watchamacallit

*Dial typeface*



Yao said:


> I am missing part of that font (the italics bit) I have to purchase more of that font and I should be able to italicize the "M" and "FT" per the original.


Yao,

_Copperplate_ has neither lowercase nor italic letters. Perhaps _URW American Gothic Medium_ fits the bill here:

http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/singl...edium_ot_std_urw/&sample_text=SUBMARINE 230ft

http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/singl...cs=1&acs_p=1&sample_text=m ft&sample_size=96

Eventually, letters on a computer are just a bunch of vector points that can be tweaked to any desired shape.

Interesting project, BTW.


----------



## Yao

*Thanks!*

That does look closer. I will take a closer look at this font option.



Watchamacallit said:


> Yao,
> 
> _Copperplate_ has neither lowercase nor italic letters. Perhaps _URW American Gothic Medium_ fits the bill here:
> 
> http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/singl...edium_ot_std_urw/&sample_text=SUBMARINE 230ft
> 
> http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/singl...cs=1&acs_p=1&sample_text=m ft&sample_size=96
> 
> Eventually, letters on a computer are just a bunch of vector points that can be tweaked to any desired shape.
> 
> Interesting project, BTW.


----------



## manitoujoe

*Re: Thanks!*

I do like the look of the URW American Gothic Medium as well. Very clean.

Also, the Hypen makes it look great. +1 from me.

Thanks
Mark


----------



## Sharkman-6

I don't just WANT one of these - I NEED one. This will be a beautiful watch.


----------



## Ninju

*Re: Let me assure them that the....*



Yao said:


> primary goal here is to produce an homage to the Bond Sub as seen in the movies. That being said there will be two bezel insert options. One of them will have a red triangle and minute markers. The other one will be just like the one in the movie with the exception of the plastic lume dot. The lume dot will be a conventional recessed lume dot like you see on the Sea Fighter in the banner at the top of the forum.


Placed an order on the kingston and I'm really worked up over this. Can't wait until it next year :-d.

One thing though - is there any possibility of you changing the bezel lume to a "rolex pearl"? I reckon this would affect the look of the watch to the better and be more harmonic with the rest of the vintage look.


----------



## ScottH

*Re: Let me assure them that the....*



Ninju said:


> Placed an order on the kingston and I'm really worked up over this. Can't wait until it next year :-d.
> 
> One thing though - is there any possibility of you changing the bezel lume to a "rolex pearl"? I reckon this would affect the look of the watch to the better and be more harmonic with the rest of the vintage look.


As someone who has sourced, and spent a small fortune on, a couple of OEM "pearls" for my 1680 I am totally fine with the recessed lume dot. They are far more durable and twenty years on down the line they will still be in the bezel. IMO the Rolex design isn't very durable and what Bill proposes is a nice compromise.


----------



## tallguy

*Re: Let me assure them that the....*



scotth said:


> as someone who has sourced, and spent a small fortune on, a couple of oem "pearls" for my 1680 i am totally fine with the recessed lume dot. They are far more durable and twenty years on down the line they will still be in the bezel. Imo the rolex design isn't very durable and what bill proposes is a nice compromise.


+1:-!|>


----------



## Yao

*Recessed lumed dot...*

will be the route that we will go. I would really like to do a plastic one but to do one of good quality would cost a small fortune for the tooling and even then it would probably come off like the originals did.



ScottH said:


> As someone who has sourced, and spent a small fortune on, a couple of OEM "pearls" for my 1680 I am totally fine with the recessed lume dot. They are far more durable and twenty years on down the line they will still be in the bezel. IMO the Rolex design isn't very durable and what Bill proposes is a nice compromise.


----------



## tallguy

OK Bill: 
_Design phase: Ongoing with an estimated completion date of late Febuary 2009_

May I remind you its March 3rd! We're chomping at the bit for the final drawings:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d (just a little fun ribbing:-x);-)


----------



## Ninju

*Re: Recessed lumed dot...*



Yao said:


> will be the route that we will go. I would really like to do a plastic one but to do one of good quality would cost a small fortune for the tooling and even then it would probably come off like the originals did.


I can understand this, is there any possibility of making the lume hole bigger so i fills out more of the triangle than it does on the seafighter?


----------



## kojo

Hi, I've been watching mkiiwatches for a while. and have been holding back and waiting for THIS watch to be re-born..I have just pre-ordered the 'Kingston'.. Great name..for Bond connection and for me, I grew-up in Kingston London. Kingston is only ten minutes from the famous Palace at Hampton Court and five minutes from Richmond Park, where Henry VIII used to go hunting deer (my id pic of a deer was taken in the park last year). Kingston gets it's name from the stone altar upon which the kings of England were crowned (ie: the "King's stone"). , and from where Jamica got the name. Bond was working for Her Majesty's Secret Service..Please keep the name KINGSTON. A perfect name for a perfect timepiece.


----------



## kojo

+1


----------



## siggy

Quiet around here recently, I guess that's a good indication that everything is going well and people are happy with what they see. The design so far does look good to me.

I have a couple of other points maybe to amend the design but these are minor changes and made more difficult to judge given the variation that one can see in the vintage models.

Bill, can you tell us the ratio of the vertical section of the bezel height compared to the case side? From the design you have posted so far I make it to be that the Kingston bezel is 50% the height of the case side, or somewhere close to that figure. When I look at originals I think I see that the bezel are not quite so high in relation to the case, it's difficult to tell exactly but I would judge that the Kingston bezel at the moment is just a fraction too tall. I have some a large pic that I can email of a profile shot if you wish. 

As the original 6538 used a very high acrylic I think it drew attention from the height of the bezel and gave a more stepped effect. Without such a high crystal ( and the Kingston will have a flatter sapphire of course) the bezel height will be even more obvious so I think even if the bezel is only a fraction higher than the original it will seem much taller and change the overall look of the watch.

Does anybody have a definitive profile pic of a vintage model that shows the height clearly?

regards

siggy


----------



## Ninju

siggy said:


> Quiet around here recently, I guess that's a good indication that everything is going well and people are happy with what they see. The design so far does look good to me.
> 
> I have a couple of other points maybe to amend the design but these are minor changes and made more difficult to judge given the variation that one can see in the vintage models.
> 
> Bill, can you tell us the ratio of the vertical section of the bezel height compared to the case side? From the design you have posted so far I make it to be that the Kingston bezel is 50% the height of the case side, or somewhere close to that figure. When I look at originals I think I see that the bezel are not quite so high in relation to the case, it's difficult to tell exactly but I would judge that the Kingston bezel at the moment is just a fraction too tall. I have some a large pic that I can email of a profile shot if you wish.
> 
> As the original 6538 used a very high acrylic I think it drew attention from the height of the bezel and gave a more stepped effect. Without such a high crystal ( and the Kingston will have a flatter sapphire of course) the bezel height will be even more obvious so I think even if the bezel is only a fraction higher than the original it will seem much taller and change the overall look of the watch.
> 
> Does anybody have a definitive profile pic of a vintage model that shows the height clearly?
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


Do you mean something like this? (Saw it in the forum)
Im with you siggy that it' will be important to check out every aspect of different ratios so that the Kingston will be as true to the original design as it's possible. But i'm most certain that Bill has this taken care of


----------



## kojo

I love the design, especially with the yellow minute markers/very authentic. I like the mkii 'yellow' logo. The word 'automatic' would not be missed if it was removed. If you can, please keep it's size and dimensions as accurate as possible..
Having read some of the previous posts I am concerned that James Bond and references to him might find their way onto the watch..Please don't ruin it by putting James Bond references on it (that would make it naff, and no better than the omega limited editions.)The name Kingston is more than enough of a nod to Bond. The watch is an homage to rolex, not a film tie-in.Any more references to this fictional character, however cleverly concieved, would completely ruin what promises to be the most exciting timepiece of the year.


----------



## Watchamacallit

kojo said:


> ... Any more references to this fictional character would completely ruin what promises to be the most exciting timepiece of the year.


I don't get that Bond thing either. After reading about actual spies (recommended: "The Secret History of the CIA" by Joseph Trento), that business seems more like "The Office" with a bit of "Pulp Fiction" thrown in.

Now where did I park the Batmobile last night?


----------



## tallguy

kojo said:


> Having read some of the previous posts I am concerned that James Bond and references to him might find their way onto the watch..Please don't ruin it by putting James Bond references on it (that would make it naff, and no better than the omega limited editions.)The name Kingston is more than enough of a nod to Bond. The watch is an homage to rolex, not a film tie-in.Any more references to this fictional character, however cleverly concieved, would completely ruin what promises to be the most exciting timepiece of the year.


Not to worry Kojo, Bill has made it clear that this won't be the case, and that this is, in fact, an hommage to the watch, not the character (who they now say truly more likely wore Fleming's Explorero|)

Siggy, I am fascinated by your attention to detail.....I don't know who else would even notice these things:think::-s But I think we can trust Bill to "get it right":-!:-!


----------



## Semuta

I ran a quick search and didn't come up with a definitive answer, so my question runs thusly: is the dial to be glossy or matte?


----------



## Yao

*Glossy...*

the dial will definitely be glossy.....which may mark the end of my sanity (apparently these are fun to clean ;-)) but it will glossy 



Semuta said:


> I ran a quick search and didn't come up with a definitive answer, so my question runs thusly: is the dial to be glossy or matte?


----------



## kojo

Yup..I've read all the stuff about what Bond wore and came to the same conclusion..He wore an Explorer..Ian Fleming was like Stanley Kubrick in his attention to detail. Fleming even changed the gun Bond used because his original choice was percieved amongst those 'in the know' as a Lady's gun., If Bond's watch was a Submariner, he would have at least made passing comment on it's having a rotating bezel..I reckon the case is solved..Bond wore an Explorer just like his creator..Although I reckon if Fleming had recieved a letter saying that it was more likely that Bond would wear a Diver's watch, what with the navy connection, he would have changed it to a Submariner, and someone from watchuseek would feature in his next book..


----------



## Duarte

Bill,
Please keep your sanity and go with a matte dial. Glossy dials are horrible. Just looking at them seems to leave marks. The tiniest spec of dust will damage a glossy dial. Even blowing it off with a blower you can sometimes see faint marks on the dial.


----------



## Yao

*Its too late for me Duarte...*

save your selves o|

Unfortunately the gold print wont' look shiny on a matte dial and the original was glossy. Unless there is overwelhming support for a matte dial glossy is the way we will be going.



Duarte said:


> Bill,
> Please keep your sanity and go with a matte dial. Glossy dials are horrible. Just looking at them seems to leave marks. The tiniest spec of dust will damage a glossy dial. Even blowing it off with a blower you can sometimes see faint marks on the dial.


----------



## dave43

I'm with Duarte. You don't want anal types like me seeing every spec of dust.



Duarte said:


> Bill,
> Please keep your sanity and go with a matte dial. Glossy dials are horrible. Just looking at them seems to leave marks. The tiniest spec of dust will damage a glossy dial. Even blowing it off with a blower you can sometimes see faint marks on the dial.


----------



## Rob T

GLOSS please!

Rob.


----------



## RussF

*I agree with Duarte, go with a matte dial.*

.


----------



## timbo

*Re: Its too late for me Duarte...*

Glossy like the original. If you don't want dust on your dials guys, don't open the watch


----------



## siggy

tallguy said:


> Siggy, I am fascinated by your attention to detail.....I don't know who else would even notice these things:think::-s But I think we can trust Bill to "get it right":-!:-!


Tallguy, in England they would call me an anorak, in the US the description might be even less kind :-d

I do have confidence in Bill but a little help never hurt ;-) . The RobertMaron pic that Ninju just re-posted does seem to show what I am talking about but it may have been a conscious decision by Bill to make the bezel taller, possibly to protect the crown a little as it would no longer be protected by a tall crystal?

Another tiny adjustment might be the crown itself. I think it should protrude just a little more, the best pic I can find is below. Most frontal pics are centred on the dial and give a distorted view of the distance between the crown and the case, this pic is centred on the crown so gives a really good view.










http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/message/1233763360/A+Special+BC+Package-----

I think something like the crown in the pic above will give the crown more character after all it is supposed to be a "Big crown sub" without needing to increase it's diameter.

I can see two arguments against making the crown protrude a little further, one is that Rolex were inconsistent, some vintage pics show that crowns do not stick out quite as much, maybe Rolex made them fit more flush during the next service? The second reason would be that it would make the crown a little less "tool watch" as it would be more likely to snag on things. Personally I think "tool watch" considerations should come second to overall style in this project as it is supposed to be an hommage.

regards

siggy


----------



## J.B. Books

That's a nice pic, Siggy. How much more are you talking about the crown protruding? I don't know if I see much difference between that pic and Bill's drawing.


----------



## siggy

J.B. Books said:


> That's a nice pic, Siggy. How much more are you talking about the crown protruding? I don't know if I see much difference between that pic and Bill's drawing.


Good question and I don't have an answer in absolute measurement terms but let me try to describe what I see, it won't be easy to make it clear in words.

The Rolex crown has ridges around the outside that we are all familiar with that assist in getting a grip on the crown. Then there is a small angled part of the crown on the case side of the crown where the diameter of the crown is reducing to meet the crown tube . On the non case side of the crown I think Bill has amount that the part with the Rolex logo extends past the ridges about right.
If you look at the pic I think you can see the distance between the edge of the bezel and the flat section of ridges around the outside of the crown is larger than in Bill's drawings. The pic looks a little more symmetrical, the distance from the bezel to the ridges of the flat part on the case side I would estimate is approximately the same distance as from the edges of the ridges on the non case side to the very edge of the crown when looked at in plan form.

So the crown itself seems to be OK it I just needs to moved out a fraction to produce just a little larger gap between the bezel IMO. Bill's drawings just have it nestled just a little closer to the case.












Yao said:


> The bezel insert still needs some work design wise (any input is welcome).
> 
> The crown is based on the drawing that the mfg supplied to me so it is to scale. It doesn't mean it is set in stone yet but the drawing is an accurate representation of what is currently "on order". The crown will be a trip-lock style crown.
> 
> The dial has been updated with "Auto-Winding" and "Kingston" and is printed in a Copperplate Gothic Light font. If you guys have an opinion about the font please let me know.
> 
> Also the side view of the case body has been updated and the case back as well. The detail of the case back is not currently illustrated. The side profile of the main case body is something that I am happy with and represents my interpretation of the many different versions I have seen of the 6538 case body. Unfortunately there is no "definitive" side view that I know of so if anyone has an opinion about the shape please let me know.


Hope I haven't confused you .

regards

siggy


----------



## kojo

*Re: Its too late for me Duarte...*

glossy like the original


----------



## Galpo

*Matte or gloss???????*

Do I smell another poll coming? ;-)

Just kidding. 
Guys, don't break under the pressure, this watch is the Bond watch, remember?
So I believe we should stick with the original look b-)
I prefer a matte dial as well, but not on this one.
This baby must stay as close to the original look and feel,
before matte dial was largly used.

I vote gloss. (JMHO)


----------



## J.B. Books

I think I see what you mean. It does appear to be closer to the case in Bill's drawing. I wonder if that's actually how it is or if it's just a matter of perspective from looking at the watch head on.



siggy said:


> Good question and I don't have an answer in absolute measurement terms but let me try to describe what I see, it won't be easy to make it clear in words.
> 
> The Rolex crown has ridges around the outside that we are all familiar with that assist in getting a grip on the crown. Then there is a small angled part of the crown on the case side of the crown where the diameter of the crown is reducing to meet the crown tube . On the non case side of the crown I think Bill has amount that the part with the Rolex logo extends past the ridges about right.
> If you look at the pic I think you can see the distance between the edge of the bezel and the flat section of ridges around the outside of the crown is larger than in Bill's drawings. The pic looks a little more symmetrical, the distance from the bezel to the ridges of the flat part on the case side I would estimate is approximately the same distance as from the edges of the ridges on the non case side to the very edge of the crown when looked at in plan form.
> 
> So the crown itself seems to be OK it I just needs to moved out a fraction to produce just a little larger gap between the bezel IMO. Bill's drawings just have it nestled just a little closer to the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope I haven't confused you .
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


----------



## Semuta

*Re: Glossy...*

Glossy dial? Order placed.


----------



## tallguy

*Re: Matte or gloss???????*



Galpo said:


> Do I smell another poll coming? ;-)
> 
> Just kidding.
> Guys, don't break under the pressure, this watch is the Bond watch, remember?
> So I believe we should stick with the original look b-)
> I prefer a matte dial as well, but not on this one.
> This baby must stay as close to the original look and feel,
> before matte dial was largly used.
> 
> I vote gloss. (JMHO)


100% +1 as i too prefer matte but will vote for gloss for originality sake!:-!


----------



## kojo

I like this design very much, but would swap the positioning of the Kingston and Auto Winding script. OR BETTER STILL, lose the Auto Winding script altogether and make the mkii logo slightly larger. I don't really get the point of telling us it's automatic when the sweep of the hand is a pretty good indication that the watch is not a quartz..By putting the Auto Winding script just under the logo it makes it seem that this feature is of huge significance, more so than the name of brand or model, a bit like a car manufaturer writing Automatic Drive on the hood of the vehicle, instead of placing it in small letters on the back over the idicator lights.


----------



## tallguy

kojo said:


> I like this design very much, but would swap the positioning of the Kingston and Auto Winding script. OR BETTER STILL, lose the Auto Winding script altogether and make the mkii logo slightly larger. I don't really get the point of telling us it's automatic when the sweep of the hand is a pretty good indication..By putting the Auto Winding script just under the logo it makes it seem that this feature is of huge significance, more so than the name of brand or model, a bit like a car manufaturer writing Automatic Drive on the hood of the vehicle, instead of placing it in small letters on the back over the idicator lights.


 I'm guessing Bill is past the point of changing this stuff now....I think we'll see the final drawings soon....CAN'T WAIT!!


----------



## giosdad

tallguy said:


> I'm guessing Bill is past the point of changing this stuff now....I think we'll see the final drawings soon....CAN'T WAIT!!


I agree. Some where in the 24 pages of posts is the discussion on autowinding (probably several times:-d)and whether it belongs on the dial and why it is there. I for one like it, but respect others opinion.

Speaking of that I wonder what the record is for number of pages or posts on a discussion or project. This one is the most I have been involved with.

I really can't wait for the next design as well.


----------



## Donald Grant

Definitely a gloss dial!

DG


----------



## kojo

tallguy said:


> I'm guessing Bill is past the point of changing this stuff now....I think we'll see the final drawings soon....CAN'T WAIT!!


I agree 100%.. Can't wait!!:-!


----------



## John S.

The time for the "goat rodeo" is done.


kojo said:


> I agree 100%.. Can't wait!!:-!


This project is a vision brought forth by Bill, who has given us a number of stunning homages over the years. It was very inclusive and fun for Bill to involve the masses in the design development...but now it is time for Bill to take the mind-numbing amount of input that has been given here and determine, based on his experience and wishes for this watch, what the details of the final design will be. I, for one, completely trust his sensibilities. Also, I have never seen another custom watchbuilder who provides the number of options and choices that Bill does. So there should certainly be enough customization possible to make everyone happy.

So, Bill, go forth and finalize this gem. At the end of the day, a piece of art can only be created by one person. As David Ogilvy, the famous advertising guru said, "Search the parks in all your cities. You'll find no statues for committees."


----------



## John S.

This is supposed to be an homage to an earlier time. Back when the original was created, self-winding was still a pretty big deal. So Bill is trying to capture that era, and auto-winding is a more charming and less typical was of saying that. It's the type of term they were coming up with back then in order to differentiate products. Also, the "Perpetual" in "Oyster Perpetual" is just another way of saying self-winding...so Bill is trying to create a connection to that as well.


----------



## tallguy

John S. said:


> The time for the "goat rodeo" is done.


:-!:-!that's classic....I agree with your other comments as well....two posts since 2007, but when you finally had something to say.......|>


----------



## John S.

tallguy said:


> :-!:-!that's classic....I agree with your other comments as well....two posts since 2007, but when you finally had something to say.......|>


Thanks, I primarily post on MWR (I'm a big milwatch collector)...but now that Bill and MKII are here, I'll be hanging around on this forum as well.


----------



## kojo

John S. said:


> This is supposed to be an homage to an earlier time. Back when the original was created, self-winding was still a pretty big deal. So Bill is trying to capture that era, and auto-winding is a more charming and less typical was of saying that. It's the type of term they were coming up with back then in order to differentiate products. Also, the "Perpetual" in "Oyster Perpetual" is just another way of saying self-winding...so Bill is trying to create a connection to that as well.


John S, Many thanks for your post.... You have made me see the light and I agree with you..:-!


----------



## bompi

Currently you can find this on eBay, not far from "our" Kingston project.
Big crown is pretty great ;-)


----------



## tallguy

bompi said:


> Currently you can find this on eBay, not far from "our" Kingston project.
> Big crown is pretty great ;-)


I think ours is a tad better value;-)


----------



## Bill Sohne

*What about a chronometre grade movement?*

Hi Bill

The case and dial are stunning.... BUT what is under the hood ?

Everyone is talking abut the outside of the watch.. How about the movement. Is there anyway to upgrade it to a chronometre grade eta ?

It sad that we are spending the time on the case dial bezel band... But the picking of the second lowest grade eta movement .. Sad.. This is a limited edition .

Any thoughts ?

Gloss dial is a must..
Gilt hands... 
riveted bracelet...

I would prefer non fliploc ... and taper to 16 mm like the original riveted. I have a 8 inch wrist and I dont find the taper to 16 too small... Just another opinion.

Best regards

Bill Sohne


----------



## Yao

*The movement will be a highly decorated...*

2836-2, Elabore grade with Incabloc shock protection.

A Top or Chronometer grade movement would add several hundred dollars to the cost, delay the project, and the original Bond watch wasn't a Chronometer grade version any way.

However they will be regulated carefully, which seems to end up yielding very good results on average.



Bill Sohne said:


> Hi Bill
> 
> The case and dial are stunning.... BUT what is under the hood ?
> 
> Everyone is talking abut the outside of the watch.. How about the movement. Is there anyway to upgrade it to a chronometre grade eta ?
> 
> It sad that we are spending the time on the case dial bezel band... But the picking of the second lowest grade eta movement .. Sad.. This is a limited edition .
> 
> Any thoughts ?
> 
> Gloss dial is a must..
> Gilt hands...
> riveted bracelet...
> 
> I would prefer non fliploc ... and taper to 16 mm like the original riveted. I have a 8 inch wrist and I dont find the taper to 16 too small... Just another opinion.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Bill Sohne


----------



## Yao

*Latest draft...*

of the case design for comment.

Please note that:

* the dial still needs some work (e.g. the font)
* the offset for the crown is about as close as I can get it without custom designing the "Trip-lock" type case tube I have in mind....its probably best to leave the case tube as is since modifying it is deceptively complicated.
* Drilled lugs still not illustrated but will be included.
* for the serial number here is how to read it:

- L stands for "limited edition"
- the 34 is actually my age at the moment the project was started. Its the way I number all of my watches
- the next three digits are the "serial number"
- the last three digits is the total number in this series.
- Date dial is not shown yet. It will be a 3 o'clock date window, beveled but without a border. Date wheel will be a standard white with black text.

I hope that you find the case back engraving suitable. I thought it best to keep it simple and at the same time borrow a little from the style of engraving you see on British issue watches (i.e. cryptic)

As long as there are no major issues I will proceed with refining the design and spec'ing out the case parts. The hands and dials will be the "fastest" to manufacture so I will leave that until after the case has been started but essentially the dial and hands appear as is. It just takes quite a bit of time to go through and scrub all of the design elements to make sure everything lines up.


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Latest draft...*

WOW!

What a superb job! I like it a lot! And I have no further comment. Please start producing asap!

Menno


----------



## siggy

Good job Bill, caseback is very subtle and perfect IMO.

regards

siggy


----------



## bompi

+1 ;-)

The case back is the way I like it.

That sounds promising !


----------



## Dave E

Looking good, I like the minimalist caseback. :-!


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Latest draft...*



Thieuster said:


> WOW!
> 
> What a superb job! I like it a lot! And I have no further comment. Please start producing asap!
> 
> Menno


I second this motion!!


----------



## Galpo

*Re: Latest draft...*



Yao said:


> of the case design for comment.


(Excuse me for not-so-perfect English...)
I think It's Just great, the two bezel+hands options are beautiful.
It'll be hard to decide whice to choose, but eventually I'll go
will the more original look (the right version).
As for the case back - I like it, the "cleaner" the better.
I would consider the engravings being made at the center
of the back, with centered alignment, like in military watches.

Great job, Mr. Yao!|>


----------



## GregoryD

*Re: Latest draft...*

Wow, the case looks great. It looks from the sketches that the case back will have the Rolex-style serrated edges; will it be possible to open the case back with a standard tool or will a special tool be needed?

Again, looks really superb!

Greg


----------



## tallguy

one word: *PERFECTION!:-!*


----------



## cpotters

Thoroughly fantastic. Any additional input from me is just commentary. 

Mr. Yao, l say "Let's light this candle"!


----------



## Rob T

*Re: Latest draft...*

Perfect! Very much looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.

Cheers,

Rob.


----------



## NWP627

*Re: Latest draft...*

Both faces look beautiful and the back is perfect - it is going to be a difficult choice. Thanks Bill.
N


----------



## gerard88t

Actually the sweep of the second hand tells that a watch is mechanical, not automatic FWIW.


kojo said:


> I like this design very much, but would swap the positioning of the Kingston and Auto Winding script. OR BETTER STILL, lose the Auto Winding script altogether and make the mkii logo slightly larger. I don't really get the point of telling us it's automatic when the sweep of the hand is a pretty good indication..By putting the Auto Winding script just under the logo it makes it seem that this feature is of huge significance, more so than the name of brand or model, a bit like a car manufaturer writing Automatic Drive on the hood of the vehicle, instead of placing it in small letters on the back over the idicator lights.


----------



## Yao

*If you look closer you will see....*

that there are 6 notches illustrated on the outer diameter of the case back. Those notches will actually be for a standard case wrench. No special tools required to open this case back. The "Rolex-style" serrated edges will be purely decorative. It would be impractical to make that part of the case back function, just in case any one is wondering ;-)



GregoryD said:


> Wow, the case looks great. It looks from the sketches that the case back will have the Rolex-style serrated edges; will it be possible to open the case back with a standard tool or will a special tool be needed?
> 
> Again, looks really superb!
> 
> Greg


----------



## k7lro

Good job. Do you still anticipate delivery in 4Q09? 
.
.
.
or sooner?


----------



## Rob T

*Re: If you look closer you will see....*

I really like the simplicity of the case back, with its minimalist and somewhat cryptic stampings. Looks just right.

Rob.


----------



## Yao

*That is my expectation but it will be largely...*

determined by the case manufacturer. You just never know for certain what kind of issues will crop up. You guys never hear of those issues because I deal with them "offline" with the suppliers. There is always something it just depends on how long it takes to resolve.



k7lro said:


> Good job. Do you still anticipate delivery in 4Q09?
> .
> .
> .
> or sooner?


----------



## kkmark

*Re: Latest draft...*

Congratulations Bill - this is a masterpiece.

Will the case be finished just like the 6538s or will there be other options?

Best,

Ken


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: Latest draft...*

This looks awesome Bill. Waiting till December will be rough, but worth it. I think the serial numbers look good on the back, but would look good centered as well. I hope the bracelet stays tapered to 18mm as I think 16mm is just too skinny. Excuse my ignorance on the ETA movements, but could someone point me in the direction of explanation of the various movements they offer? Is the 2836-2 better than the 2824-2?


----------



## Yao

*Just one option...*

for the case finish. It will basically feature the standard mix of satin and polished finish that Rolex Subs have used for.....ever. :-d

A note about options...


3 dial options:
Non-date, gilt print, BG W9 lume
Non-date, gilt print, C3 lume
Date, gilt print, BG W9 lume

Hands
Gilt hands with BGW9
Silver hands with C3
Silver hands with BG W9

Bezel insert options:
As shown, one with red triangle, one without hash marks

Date wheel:
By the time the watch is ready there will be two options
white with black text
black with white text


This is fewer options than we normally have because the cost of producing a limited edition is higher than a standard production model.



kkmark said:


> Congratulations Bill - this is a masterpiece.
> 
> Will the case be finished just like the 6538s or will there be other options?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ken


----------



## Yao

*The 2836-2 is more sophisticated....*

than the 2824 but is essentially a modified version of the 2824. For example the date change on the 2836-2 is like a Rolex in that it changes instantaneously rather than over a period of 20 minutes like the 2824. However timing performance will be the same.



MatKid152 said:


> This looks awesome Bill. Waiting till December will be rough, but worth it. I think the serial numbers look good on the back, but would look good centered as well. I hope the bracelet stays tapered to 18mm as I think 16mm is just too skinny. Excuse my ignorance on the ETA movements, but could someone point me in the direction of explanation of the various movements they offer? Is the 2836-2 better than the 2824-2?


----------



## NOLA1

I have been monitoring this thread for the past week and am about to pull the trigger on the Kingston. What an amazing looking watch and what a great idea for Mr. Yao to consult the forum on most of the decisions! 

I hope someone will be kind enough to answer this question but is there any price difference between choosing the date v. no date or one set of hands (i.e. gilt) over the silver hands? 

Basically, am I all in at $700 + shipping? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## sschum

Great job, Bill.  I can think of no improvements.:-!

Scott


----------



## timbo

*Re: Latest draft...*

Well done, Bill.

I love the Rolexey case back, and the cryptic serials. Nice touch.

The bezels are perfect - I really like the fat dividers, the narrow(white) vs. wide(red) 12 o'clock wedge, and old school bezel font.

I'd say pull the trigger. Can't wait to get this one on my wrist! :thumbsup:


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Just one option...*



Yao said:


> for the case finish. It will basically feature the standard mix of satin and polished finish that Rolex Subs have used for.....ever. :-d
> 
> A note about options...
> 
> 
> 3 dial options:
> Non-date, gilt print, BG W9 lume
> Non-date, gilt print, C3 lume
> Date, gilt print, BG W9 lume
> 
> Hands
> Gilt hands with BGW9
> Silver hands with C3
> Silver hands with BG W9
> 
> Bezel insert options:
> As shown, one with red triangle, one without hash marks
> 
> Date wheel:
> By the time the watch is ready there will be two options
> white with black text
> black with white text
> 
> 
> This is fewer options than we normally have because the cost of producing a limited edition is higher than a standard production model.


Limited? I think you are spoiling us! First, this democratic design project and then this list of 'limited' options? Even when buying an expensive new car, the options list is more limited than this one.

I have one suggestion to add, if I may: can you publish some pics of the various choices? E.g. the hand and dial options. I know that the drawings look great, but I think that pics of various mock ups will show more, therefore, for me it will be easier to choose what I want to order.

I've written this before: I'm very pleased with the whole concept. Somehow, it gives me the feeling being involved in actually 'making' a watch!

Menno


----------



## kkmark

*Re: Just one option...*



Yao said:


> for the case finish. It will basically feature the standard mix of satin and polished finish that Rolex Subs have used for.....ever. :-d
> 
> A note about options...
> 
> 
> 3 dial options:
> Non-date, gilt print, BG W9 lume
> Non-date, gilt print, C3 lume
> Date, gilt print, BG W9 lume
> 
> Hands
> Gilt hands with BGW9
> Silver hands with C3
> Silver hands with BG W9
> 
> Bezel insert options:
> As shown, one with red triangle, one without hash marks
> 
> Date wheel:
> By the time the watch is ready there will be two options
> white with black text
> black with white text
> 
> 
> This is fewer options than we normally have because the cost of producing a limited edition is higher than a standard production model.


So many choices...almost too good to be true.

Bill, what is your preferred combination, given that you are the creator of the watch? Is there a "MK II Kingston" standard model?


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: The 2836-2 is more sophisticated....*



Yao said:


> than the 2824 but is essentially a modified version of the 2824. For example the date change on the 2836-2 is like a Rolex in that it changes instantaneously rather than over a period of 20 minutes like the 2824. However timing performance will be the same.


Thanks for the explanation Bill. Much appreciated!


----------



## Tetraflop

Like the case back engravings !

Is it possible to mount the case back 
with the engravings horizonzal on the finished watch ?
As shown on the drawing ?

I know a lot of watches engravings show some kind of angle
after mounting.

Please excuse my English, hope Bill understands.

__________
Dietmar


----------



## Yao

*There won't be any difference in price between....*

date v. non-date

or

gilt v. silver

The cost of gold plate I think is comparable if not cheaper than Rhodium plate.

The one difference in cost will likely be if you want a non-standard date wheel (e.g. the black with white text).

So yes $700 plus S&H.



NOLA1 said:


> I have been monitoring this thread for the past week and am about to pull the trigger on the Kingston. What an amazing looking watch and what a great idea for Mr. Yao to consult the forum on most of the decisions!
> 
> I hope someone will be kind enough to answer this question but is there any price difference between choosing the date v. no date or one set of hands (i.e. gilt) over the silver hands?
> 
> Basically, am I all in at $700 + shipping?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


----------



## Yao

*I will do my best when the samples come in...*

I wanted to do that for the LRRP but the suppliers keep giving me more work to do than I was expecting. ;-) So I will try. With Obie helping me I hope that things will be more manageable.



Thieuster said:


> Limited? I think you are spoiling us! First, this democratic design project and then this list of 'limited' options? Even when buying an expensive new car, the options list is more limited than this one.
> 
> I have one suggestion to add, if I may: can you publish some pics of the various choices? E.g. the hand and dial options. I know that the drawings look great, but I think that pics of various mock ups will show more, therefore, for me it will be easier to choose what I want to order.
> 
> I've written this before: I'm very pleased with the whole concept. Somehow, it gives me the feeling being involved in actually 'making' a watch!
> 
> Menno


----------



## Yao

*The standard model...*

will likely be the one you see on the right in the picture above since its the closest to the "Bond" watch. This is with the exception of the bezel which I will actually installed before shipment here in the US. This way I have better control over the alignment of the insert and keeps my inventory more flexible.

That having been said it looks like there will be enough demand for me to pre-assemble the date version, the non-date in BGW9, and the non-date in C3.



kkmark said:


> So many choices...almost too good to be true.
> 
> Bill, what is your preferred combination, given that you are the creator of the watch? Is there a "MK II Kingston" standard model?


----------



## Yao

*I think I understand...*

unfortunately not. I don't think the case manufacturers are ever that careful when it comes to the tapping of the case body and the case back. Then the engraving is usually done by a sub-contractor and they probably just place them into a jig without consideration for the alignment of the engraving to the rest of the watch.

When this is a consideration I believe that most companies would just opt for a case back that is held on with screws, which I don't think any of you wants.

I really wish I could make it like you envisioned but its one of those things that just isn't going to happen even if the case mfg tells you they will do it.



Tetraflop said:


> Like the case back engravings !
> 
> Is it possible to mount the case back
> with the engravings horizonzal on the finished watch ?
> As shown on the drawing ?
> 
> I know a lot of watches engravings show some kind of angle
> after mounting.
> 
> Please excuse my English, hope Bill understands.
> 
> __________
> Dietmar


----------



## Ctaranti

*Re: Latest draft...*

Wow! I love the version on the right - great revival of a classis watch.

I will be pre-ordering shortly. The wait is going to be hard though!

Chris


----------



## NOLA1

Would anyone be willing to tell me (and i'm sure a few others would like to know) the difference between BGW9 and C3 lume?


----------



## siggy

NOLA1 said:


> Would anyone be willing to tell me (and i'm sure a few others would like to know) the difference between BGW9 and C3 lume?


There is a lot of discussion of the different lumes in this thread

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=228771

regards

siggy


----------



## siggy

*Re: Latest draft...*



Yao said:


> * the offset for the crown is about as close as I can get it without custom designing the "Trip-lock" type case tube I have in mind....its probably best to leave the case tube as is since modifying it is deceptively complicated.


Bill

I fully understand and agree that modifying the crown tube is more trouble than it's worth. 
I would have thought you might be able to beef out the crown a fraction without changing the tube. My previous comment was just raise the subject as there had been very little comment about the crown in all the other posts. I'm sure you will work out the best solution.

One comment about the dials but you can put this off until later as you say they are the quickest to manufacture, please be selfish and don't give up on the 3-6-9 Explorer dial :-d . If it is the case that one of the other options need to be dropped or there is will be no Explorer dial I think the Explorer option will get strong support.

regards

siggy


----------



## ChainWhip

*Re: Latest draft...*



siggy said:


> One comment about the dials but you can put this off until later as you say they are the quickest to manufacture, please be selfish and don't give up on the 3-6-9 Explorer dial :-d . If it is the case that one of the other options need to be dropped or there is will be no Explorer dial I think the Explorer option will get strong support.
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


Relative new-comer to this forum, but +1 on the Explorer Dial. :-!


----------



## williamclub

*Re: Latest draft...*



siggy said:


> Bill
> 
> I fully understand and agree that modifying the crown tube is more trouble than it's worth.
> I would have thought you might be able to beef out the crown a fraction without changing the tube. My previous comment was just raise the subject as there had been very little comment about the crown in all the other posts. I'm sure you will work out the best solution.
> 
> One comment about the dials but you can put this off until later as you say they are the quickest to manufacture, please be selfish and don't give up on the 3-6-9 Explorer dial :-d . If it is the case that one of the other options need to be dropped or there is will be no Explorer dial I think the Explorer option will get strong support.
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


Another noob here,
+1 For an explorer dial! Dowling's 5510 Aussie Milsub makes me blush.


----------



## Steve356

Won't the currently available Explorer style dial fit the Kingston?


----------



## dave43

*Re: Latest draft...*

Looks great! Now I know your serial numbering methodology...It's nice we are the same age so I will alway's know how old I was when I got the particular MKII I'm wearing at the moment.



Yao said:


> of the case design for comment.
> 
> Please note that:
> 
> * the dial still needs some work (e.g. the font)
> * the offset for the crown is about as close as I can get it without custom designing the "Trip-lock" type case tube I have in mind....its probably best to leave the case tube as is since modifying it is deceptively complicated.
> * Drilled lugs still not illustrated but will be included.
> * for the serial number here is how to read it:
> 
> - L stands for "limited edition"
> - the 34 is actually my age at the moment the project was started. Its the way I number all of my watches
> - the next three digits are the "serial number"
> - the last three digits is the total number in this series.
> - Date dial is not shown yet. It will be a 3 o'clock date window, beveled but without a border. Date wheel will be a standard white with black text.
> 
> I hope that you find the case back engraving suitable. I thought it best to keep it simple and at the same time borrow a little from the style of engraving you see on British issue watches (i.e. cryptic)
> 
> As long as there are no major issues I will proceed with refining the design and spec'ing out the case parts. The hands and dials will be the "fastest" to manufacture so I will leave that until after the case has been started but essentially the dial and hands appear as is. It just takes quite a bit of time to go through and scrub all of the design elements to make sure everything lines up.


----------



## Yao

*Actually I don't know...*

cross compatibility with the Vantage was not a consideration.



Steve356 said:


> Won't the currently available Explorer style dial fit the Kingston?


----------



## Steve356

*Re: Actually I don't know...*



Yao said:


> cross compatibility with the Vantage was not a consideration.


oh. I just assumed any of the 28mm dials will fit.


----------



## siggy

Steve356 said:


> Won't the currently available Explorer style dial fit the Kingston?


Even if it would fit the gilt print and gilt minute track just make it a completely different animal. I don't how others feel but if it's a choice between a date version, my preferred lume or the Explorer dial then one of the other choices is sacrificed not the Explorer choice.

regards

siggy


----------



## Yao

*The LRRP dials will probably fit....*

but the case opening right now is bigger than the 28 mm dials.



Steve356 said:


> oh. I just assumed any of the 28mm dials will fit.


----------



## Yao

*An Explorer style dial...*

isn't a priority at this point and can be done at any stage of the process. We will look at it if demand/conditions are favorable.



siggy said:


> Even if it would fit the gilt print and gilt minute track just make it a completely different animal. I don't how others feel but if it's a choice between a date version, my preferred lume or the Explorer dial then one of the other choices is sacrificed not the Explorer choice.
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


----------



## tallguy

*Re: An Explorer style dial...*



Yao said:


> isn't a priority at this point and can be done at any stage of the process. We will look at it if demand/conditions are favorable.


+1....don't let it slow down the process!:thanks


----------



## MatKid152

*Re: An Explorer style dial...*



tallguy said:


> +1....don't let it slow down the process!:thanks


What he said


----------



## racerx454

*Explorer dial is a great idea.*

It is an option that I would definitely pay to have.

Overall, I'm really diggin' the most resent versions. I like the Auto-Winding now that I've seen it on the dial. It does add a bit more of the vintage feel.

Keep up the good work!

-Kevin-


----------



## ntr

*Re: Latest draft...*

Just brilliant...:-!

Congrats,

Best regs,

NTR


----------



## Yao

*We'll just have to wait and see....*

if I have the time to do it and if the interest is there as well. Believe me I want to do it I have a picture of a gorgeous 6538 here with a red triangle insert and Exp dial. I fell in love with that watch years ago but I think it would pose too much of a distraction at this point since the dial would have to be done almost entirely from the ground up, which takes time.

For example the Vantage dial is not a good starting point because the font is different and the markers are a different size relative to the rest of the dial...so on and so forth....;-)



racerx454 said:


> It is an option that I would definitely pay to have.
> 
> Overall, I'm really diggin' the most resent versions. I like the Auto-Winding now that I've seen it on the dial. It does add a bit more of the vintage feel.
> 
> Keep up the good work!
> 
> -Kevin-


----------



## ntr

*Re: We'll just have to wait and see....*



Yao said:


> if I have the time to do it and if the interest is there as well. Believe me I want to do it I have a picture of a gorgeous 6538 here with a red triangle insert and Exp dial. I fell in love with that watch years ago but I think it would pose too much of a distraction at this point since the dial would have to be done almost entirely from the ground up, which takes time.


I guess it could be fine to have a MilSub like dial.. Would it be such a one you'd like to elaborate? And would gilt hands of the "standard" kingston fit such a dial?


----------



## Semuta

*Just because it's been quiet for a couple of days*

Enjoy these big crown pictures.


----------



## Marc7300

*Re: Just because it's been quiet for a couple of days*

Great pics |> Thanks for posting...



Semuta said:


> Enjoy these big crown pictures.


----------



## Bill Sohne

*just came across a great 5510 photo !*

Hi Bill

Just came across this photo of a 5510...










Liking the red triangle more!

Best 
Bill Sohne


----------



## Darkman

*Re: just came across a great 5510 photo !*

Sweet pic, I love the red.


----------



## Yao

*Brief update on status...*


Finalizing order for the "Trip-lock" style case tube and crown. These have to be ordered before everything else so that we have parts for the samples
Working with the dial mfg on the gilt print
Case design I hope to have finally spec'd out so that I can review it with the mfg at Basel
Hands will probably go into production some time late next month
Picked-up a copy of the Chinese Rolex style riveted oyster bracelet. I will be bringing this with me to go over the final details of the bracelet design with the mfg
The ETA 2836-2 movements that we need for the project will be delivered the week after I get back from Basel.


----------



## bompi

*Re: Brief update on status...*

Thanks for the news. :-!


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Brief update on status...*



Yao said:


> Finalizing order for the "Trip-lock" style case tube and crown. These have to be ordered before everything else so that we have parts for the samples
> Working with the dial mfg on the gilt print
> Case design I hope to have finally spec'd out so that I can review it with the mfg at Basel
> Hands will probably go into production some time late next month
> Picked-up a copy of the Chinese Rolex style riveted oyster bracelet. I will be bringing this with me to go over the final details of the bracelet design with the mfg
> The ETA 2836-2 movements that we need for the project will be delivered the week after I get back from Basel.


Thanks, That is enough news to keep us "patient" while we wait. :-d 
I have a four year old son we are trying to teach the virtue of being patient. This allows me to learn again with him. :-x


----------



## NWP627

*Re: Brief update on status...*

Thanks Bill, it's nice to hear that "things" are moving along.
N


----------



## siggy

Thanks for the update Bill.

I'm dying to get this watch on my wrist just like everyone else but just ignore our noise ;-) and get on with it at your own pace and only proceed when you're totally comfortable with the design :-!

regards

John.


----------



## tallguy

siggy said:


> Thanks for the update Bill.
> 
> I'm dying to get this watch on my wrist just like everyone else but just ignore our noise ;-) and get on with it at your own pace and only proceed when you're totally comfortable with the design :-!
> 
> regards
> 
> John.


+1 well said:-!


----------



## Bill Sohne

*Thanks for the update and the 6538 exp dial?*

Hi Bill

thanks for the update.. On the milsub exp dial... you mentioned you had a photo of a 6538 with one ? Can you post it for us to see ?

best

bill sohne


----------



## tmmats

*Re: Thanks for the update and the 6538 exp dial?*

Just put a deposit down. CAN'T WAIT!! I can't believe I'm about to wait a year for a watch... I'm known to be very impatient. I know it'll be worth the wait, though!

Seems like you've created a piece that might end some people's search for 'the watch'. Thank you, Bill, for all of your efforts.

P.S. Check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400021172608&viewitem=&salenotsupported

$180,000 for a Sub!?


----------



## tallguy

*Re: Thanks for the update and the 6538 exp dial?*



tmmats said:


> Just put a deposit down. CAN'T WAIT!! I can't believe I'm about to wait a year for a watch... I'm known to be very impatient. I know it'll be worth the wait, though!


Aw, c'mon.....4th quarter is HARDLY a year! Think of it as your Christmas present!


----------



## tmmats

*Re: Thanks for the update and the 6538 exp dial?*

Yeah, I guess I have that much time to make sure I make the right decisions on what to include in my Kingston. If not by Christmas then my birthday will be a few months after that so... ;-)


----------



## superado

*Re: Brief update on status...*

Hi Bill,

I know you're away, but per my email, could you inquire with the dial manufacturer if customized lettering for the Kingston dials can be arranged? Thanks.



Yao said:


> Finalizing order for the "Trip-lock" style case tube and crown. These have to be ordered before everything else so that we have parts for the samples
> *Working with the dial mfg on the gilt print*
> Case design I hope to have finally spec'd out so that I can review it with the mfg at Basel
> Hands will probably go into production some time late next month
> Picked-up a copy of the Chinese Rolex style riveted oyster bracelet. I will be bringing this with me to go over the final details of the bracelet design with the mfg
> The ETA 2836-2 movements that we need for the project will be delivered the week after I get back from Basel.


----------



## kojo

*Re: Just one option...*

For me it's like going shopping for clothes...On the hanger (i.e.demo pics of drawings) I haven't got much of a clue, other than it looks fucxin' A.. To see it on a model (wrist/photo) is something else.. 
I'm cool with whatever Mr Yao goes with..*My criteria is for authenticity*.. Seeing the pics posted elsewhere on this forum of original RXlXxes of the time I'm going with the idea of gold hands and red bezel triangle....(though if the option to buy the other bezel as an extra is available I shall snap it up,-I like to change the appearance of my watches-..) I'm sure that when the first phaze recipients post pics on their wrists I will *have* to buy the Sliver hands model as well...


----------



## Yao

*I leave tomorrow afternoon....*

right now just working through as many orders as I can.

To answer your question custom lettering won't be a possibility. To give you some sense of scale the factories that make high end dials usually spit out more than 40K per month. They aren't really set up to do one dial unless its a prototype.



superado said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> I know you're away, but per my email, could you inquire with the dial manufacturer if customized lettering for the Kingston dials can be arranged? Thanks.


----------



## tmmats

Here's a really nice pic of 5510: http://imgtest.antiquorum.com/204/full/163.jpg


----------



## Bondtoys

Hello Bill,

just wanted to bring in the size discussion again, I don't know, if it's too late.
I have preordered the watch and I - as a Bond Fan - would love to have the watch being as close as possible to the real watch.

So, even your watch catches the spirit of the original I am kind of unhappy, that the size is -to my taste- unneccessarily bigger than the original.

As your survey went to people, who probably never ordered this watch, I would like to suggest to ask the people, who actually preordered, which size they would prefer.

I am aware, that this will conflict with probably determined size dimensions for dials, bodies, bezels, crystals, but I don't want to miss the chance, if there is any.


----------



## kojo

I agree with keeping the watch to the original size (I like the idea of a smaller diver's watch) but fear things are too far down the line for any changes to be made at this stage...



Bondtoys said:


> Hello Bill,
> 
> just wanted to bring in the size discussion again, I don't know, if it's too late.
> I have preordered the watch and I - as a Bond Fan - would love to have the watch being as close as possible to the real watch.
> 
> So, even your watch catches the spirit of the original I am kind of unhappy, that the size is -to my taste- unneccessarily bigger than the original.
> 
> As your survey went to people, who probably never ordered this watch, I would like to suggest to ask the people, who actually preordered, which size they would prefer.
> 
> I am aware, that this will conflict with probably determined size dimensions for dials, bodies, bezels, crystals, but I don't want to miss the chance, if there is any.


----------



## tallguy

kojo said:


> I agree with keeping the watch to the original size (I like the idea of a smaller diver's watch) but fear things are too far down the line for any changes to be made at this stage...


Yeah, I think that that train has already left the stationb-)

Seriously, though, aren't we talking mm's difference?:think::-s


----------



## MatKid152

kojo said:


> I agree with keeping the watch to the original size (I like the idea of a smaller diver's watch) but fear things are too far down the line for any changes to be made at this stage...


With 7 inch wrists I would've been fine with 37mm or 39mm as either will look fine for me. I agree from the historical standpoint 37 would've been cool, but it is an homage not a copy. It would be interesting to poll just those with reservations. You might be suprised by how many may want it more around 42mm, there was a large contingent clamoring for bigger before.


----------



## srmgin

I am just summing up what I have read so far:

I would like to see the watch with an engraving on the case back, obviously something linked to Bond, Jamaica was a good idea and also the gambling reference.

I like the idea of BGW9 for the hands and markings: Almost as bright as C3, is nearly white. This lume glows blue. But C3 seems to of won.

I liked the name Commander but Kingston seems to of won, how about the Kingston Commander?

I recall someone suggesting latin text on the dial, I thought this was a good idea.

Has the pre order closed?

Bill maybe I'll see you at Basel, I live there and I am going on Saturday, can't wait?


----------



## Yao

Hi I sent you a PM in case we have an opportunity to meet.

I just got back online today.

Basically the size of the watch is set. The original poll was used to determine the size. Not enough people wanted the original size and those that wanted something bigger weren't as interested in the project as those at the 39 mm size.

The watch will feature both C3 and BGW9 lume, you will have a choice between the two.

The second stage pre-order is still open. The first stage is closed.

The name is also set. If we keep revisiting these items the watch will take years to finish rather than months.



srmgin said:


> I am just summing up what I have read so far:
> 
> I would like to see the watch with an engraving on the case back, obviously something linked to Bond, Jamaica was a good idea and also the gambling reference.
> 
> I like the idea of BGW9 for the hands and markings: Almost as bright as C3, is nearly white. This lume glows blue. But C3 seems to of won.
> 
> I liked the name Commander but Kingston seems to of won, how about the Kingston Commander?
> 
> I recall someone suggesting latin text on the dial, I thought this was a good idea.
> 
> Has the pre order closed?
> 
> Bill maybe I'll see you at Basel, I live there and I am going on Saturday, can't wait?


----------



## Bill Sohne

*just more 369 sub dials photos...*

hi bill

be collecting photos as well for 369 dial layout ... for your files..









































































Good Hunting

Bill Sohne


----------



## siggy

Bill

As the Kingston crystal will stand proud of the case can you ( or maybe you already have ) specify that the crystal just has a tiny little bevel around the edges, it just makes it look quality and will probably reduce the possibility of chips in the crystal edges occurring.

Here are some close up pics of a Sea Dweller that has just such a little bevel.

http://www.vikbobil.se/bezel.html

I also notice that the minute hand on those Explorer dialed 6538's that Bill posted reaches right to the outside of the minute track, not just touches the markers.

regards

siggy


----------



## fstshrk

Bill,

About the date dial. Any thoughts on putting the date aperture between 4-5 o'clock like some of your other watches? This way, the symmetry of the dial is preserved. And I am hoping there is no magnifying bubble.

Just a thought.

Thanks


----------



## sunster

I'm on the 40+ camp.

By the way...this thread is ridiculously huge...any chance of starting a second thread for the Kingston discussion?


----------



## Yao

The crystal will stand proud of the case body. The crystal will also have a bevel on the top edge.

This is my thinking on the hands. I have actually made them slightly shorter than in the original. The reason why I did that was to make the watch easier to read. Also the hands when they are right on the edge like that of the original from any angle but a head on view the hands look like they go past the minute track. In other words it looks like a mistake, like someone put hands that are too long onto the watch.



siggy said:


> Bill
> 
> As the Kingston crystal will stand proud of the case can you ( or maybe you already have ) specify that the crystal just has a tiny little bevel around the edges, it just makes it look quality and will probably reduce the possibility of chips in the crystal edges occurring.
> 
> Here are some close up pics of a Sea Dweller that has just such a little bevel.
> 
> http://www.vikbobil.se/bezel.html
> 
> I also notice that the minute hand on those Explorer dialed 6538's that Bill posted reaches right to the outside of the minute track, not just touches the markers.
> 
> regards
> 
> siggy


----------



## Yao

*Update to the project....*

I talked to some suppliers while I was in Basel. Here is a brief summary of the discussion:

* The faux screw heads on the bracelet will not be on the final bracelet. I was able to confirm with the manufacturer that we can just make those pins with a smooth head rather than with a slotted one. The only pins on the bracelet with slot for a screw driver will be the functional ones
* The 2836s that we need for the watches are here. I picked them up late last week when I got back
* I have been looking at the dial. To be honest this will probably be the hardest part of the project. I was talking to my normal dial supplier and he told me that the ink that is used is currently only manufactured by one company. I have promised him some artwork and they will do some trials.

At the show I saw the Breitling Chrono-matic limited edition:










The one on display was different from this one but they use the same gold ink on this watch that was used on the original sub. The effect of the gold paint is just incredible and it catches the light in the same way that the Bond sub did in the beginning of Goldfinger. I am in the process of also lining up two back-up companies to do the dial just in case my normal supplier doesn't or can't do it.

* I spent the last few days in self-imposed seclusion because I was working on the Kingston drawings. The case body is done and over the next few days I am going to double check everything. I expect to send the drawing to the case manufacturer next Monday. The artwork for the bezel inlay and dial I am still finalizing but we have a little more time to get that started. The case factory, despite the recession, is actually still quite busy so its best to get the ball rolling on the case asap.

* The case tubes for the Kingston will be ready in about a week so they will be ready in plenty of time for the case samples. The crowns I will order once the case manufacturer signs off on the design and is comfortable with the clearance of the crown and the bezel as currently designed.


----------



## siggy

All good Bill, glad to see we're keeping you busy ;-)

regards

siggy


----------



## Donald Grant

*Re: Update to the project....*



Yao said:


> I talked to some suppliers while I was in Basel. Here is a brief summary of the discussion:
> 
> * The faux screw heads on the bracelet will not be on the final bracelet. I was able to confirm with the manufacturer that we can just make those pins with a smooth head rather than with a slotted one. The only pins on the bracelet with slot for a screw driver will be the functional ones
> * The 2836s that we need for the watches are here. I picked them up late last week when I got back
> * I have been looking at the dial. To be honest this will probably be the hardest part of the project. I was talking to my normal dial supplier and he told me that the ink that is used is currently only manufactured by one company. I have promised him some artwork and they will do some trials.
> 
> At the show I saw the Breitling Chrono-matic limited edition:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one on display was different from this one but they use the same gold ink on this watch that was used on the original sub. The effect of the gold paint is just incredible and it catches the light in the same way that the Bond sub did in the beginning of Goldfinger. I am in the process of also lining up two back-up companies to do the dial just in case my normal supplier doesn't or can't do it.
> 
> * I spent the last few days in self-imposed seclusion because I was working on the Kingston drawings. The case body is done and over the next few days I am going to double check everything. I expect to send the drawing to the case manufacturer next Monday. The artwork for the bezel inlay and dial I am still finalizing but we have a little more time to get that started. The case factory, despite the recession, is actually still quite busy so its best to get the ball rolling on the case asap.
> 
> * The case tubes for the Kingston will be ready in about a week so they will be ready in plenty of time for the case samples. The crowns I will order once the case manufacturer signs off on the design and is comfortable with the clearance of the crown and the bezel as currently designed.


That's great news indeed. I can't wait.

DG


----------



## k7lro

*Re: Project Kingston - on schedule?*

Hiya Bill - welcome back, glad that you had a productive trip. What is your gut feeling for Kingston/plank delivery? Still on schedule for 4Q?


----------



## tallguy

*Re: Update to the project....*



Yao said:


> * The case tubes for the Kingston will be ready in about a week so they will be ready in plenty of time for the case samples. The crowns I will order once the case manufacturer signs off on the design and is comfortable with the clearance of the crown and the bezel as currently designed.


Will the tubes be threaded/screwed into the case? (I'm assuming yes|>)


----------



## Yao

*In a few weeks....*

it will be mostly in the hands of the case supplier. So far I think it is still realistic but mostly because not much has changed yet. Once the suppliers get started things change. Sometimes for the better and sometimes it leads to delays.



k7lro said:


> Hiya Bill - welcome back, glad that you had a productive trip. What is your gut feeling for Kingston/plank delivery? Still on schedule for 4Q?


----------



## Yao

*Yes they will be threaded into...*

the case body. I don't talk about it much but actually all of our watches feature screw in case tubes. Meaning that the case tube is threaded into the case body. It is a "standard" feature on all Mk IIs.



tallguy said:


> Will the tubes be threaded/screwed into the case? (I'm assuming yes|>)


----------



## tallguy

*Re: Yes they will be threaded into...*



Yao said:


> the case body. I don't talk about it much but actually all of our watches feature screw in case tubes. Meaning that the case tube is threaded into the case body. It is a "standard" feature on all Mk IIs.


 I figured as much, as I understand that this is actually a very impressive construction feature. Just didn't want to make a big issue out of it if it wasn't:-x As usual, expectations met and surpassed!:-!:-!:-!


----------



## sunster

*Re: Yes they will be threaded into...*

This might have already been asked but is the estimated diameter of 38-39 WITHOUT the crown or inclusive of it.


----------



## Yao

*Re: Yes they will be threaded into...*

39.3 without the crown. The diameter is taken at the widest point of the case which is the bezel in this circumstance.



sunster said:


> This might have already been asked but is the estimated diameter of 38-39 WITHOUT the crown or inclusive of it.


----------



## Yao

*Update on the Kingston....*

The case drawings are with the case manufacturer. The turnaround for the first draft should be about 2 weeks from now. I have to finish the artwork for the bezel inserts and the dial this weekend so I can get started on the production for the dial.

Revised bracelet drawings should be ready in about a week and we will go into sampling at the same time the case is ready.


----------



## NWP627

*Re: Update on the Kingston....*



Yao said:


> The case drawings are with the case manufacturer. The turnaround for the first draft should be about 2 weeks from now. I have to finish the artwork for the bezel inserts and the dial this weekend so I can get started on the production for the dial.
> 
> Revised bracelet drawings should be ready in about a week and we will go into sampling at the same time the case is ready.


Thanks Bill. This is very good news.
N


----------



## messenius

*Re: Latest draft...*

Bill

I think you have all ready noticed this, but just in case, is it possible to make the triangle in bezel insert a little bit wider at the top than in pictures below. To my eyes it would look better this way. But in originals there seems to be both slimmer and wider versions used.

Hope we can soon see your latest artwork of the dial and insert. Great work Bill and really happy to be on this list. One of my favourite wathes ever.

Messenius



Yao said:


>


----------



## Bill Sohne

*Any news on a 3, 6, 9 Mil sub dial?*

Hi Bill

Any news on a 3, 6, 9 Mil sub dial? I am hoping you come out with a no date gilt dialed one for this watch.

best

bill sohne


----------



## Sirex

*Re: Any news on a 3, 6, 9 Mil sub dial?*



Bill Sohne said:


> Hi Bill
> 
> Any news on a 3, 6, 9 Mil sub dial? I am hoping you come out with a no date gilt dialed one for this watch.
> 
> best
> 
> bill sohne


Hi,

I hope you will decide to give the option of a 369 Mil sub dial :-!

Thanks

Toni


----------



## Darkman

*Re: Any news on a 3, 6, 9 Mil sub dial?*

Here's a great look at the original... can zoom super-close:

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159532327


----------



## colinman.77

*Re: Any news on a 3, 6, 9 Mil sub dial?*



Darkman said:


> Here's a great look at the original... can zoom super-close:
> 
> http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159532327


Great link. It looks like this one has gold hands but a silver second hand. I like it.


----------



## gerard88t

*Re: Any news on a 3, 6, 9 Mil sub dial?*



colinman.77 said:


> Great link. It looks like this one has gold hands but a silver second hand. I like it.


Unlikely. It looks to have lost its finish, wich if you look closely at the base of second hand it can be seen as yellow or gold. I can also see a hint of the old yellow on the second hand tippet.


----------



## Cowbiker

Always considered myself a crownguard lover on this shape case, but I'm begining to see the appeal of this style/model. Looks great Bill.


----------



## iFunky

Just pre-ordered! Thanks Bill for this project it looks quite interesting ... the wait until 10Q1 will be long :-d (so sad i didn't saw this project before).

Quick question about the dial (happy for the lume, wording, ect.) *was wondering if the dial finish will be mate or lacquered*? ;-)

An example of lacquered 6538 dial I took from Superlativetime (not quite sure this one is genuine as you can see some space in-between the _660_)










Thanks a lot!

Yves


----------



## Marc7300

Here you go... a former post from Bill Yao...
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=1725123&highlight=glossy+dial#post1725123


----------



## iFunky

Marc7300 said:


> Here you go... a former post from Bill Yao...
> https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=1725123&highlight=glossy+dial#post1725123


Thanks Mark :-! Missed this page .... Bill made the good choice IMO Gilt & Glossy


----------



## Cowbiker

OKAY, OKAY, OKAY!!!!

I could not get the pics out of my head! I may even understrap it! Sheesh!

In on pre-order Plank II.

I surrender! Bill just keeps bringing legends to life.

Can't wait for the TR as well!


----------



## Yao

The first draft of the case design is ready. The revised bracelet drawings are also ready for my review. I have to review both sets of drawings this weekend. Please note that no images of the drawings posted at this time because I am certain that changes will be required. I haven't ever seen a set of 1st draft drawings that didn't need significant changes but things are moving.


----------



## Yao

*Re: Latest draft...*

I will take your comments into consideration as I finalize the bezel insert and dial designs. I spent probably about 20 hour last week on these designs to clean them up and get them ready for their respective manufacturers.



messenius said:


> Bill
> 
> I think you have all ready noticed this, but just in case, is it possible to make the triangle in bezel insert a little bit wider at the top than in pictures below. To my eyes it would look better this way. But in originals there seems to be both slimmer and wider versions used.
> 
> Hope we can soon see your latest artwork of the dial and insert. Great work Bill and really happy to be on this list. One of my favourite wathes ever.
> 
> Messenius


----------



## k7lro

Good deal - looking forward to the results.


----------



## siggy

Yao said:


> The first draft of the case design is ready. The revised bracelet drawings are also ready for my review. I have to review both sets of drawings this weekend. Please note that no images of the drawings posted at this time because I am certain that changes will be required. I haven't ever seen a set of 1st draft drawings that didn't need significant changes but things are moving.


I'm eager to see the drawings Bill but now worries, things take as long as they take. This watch will be worth waiting for so I have patience.

regards

siggy


----------



## heb

that's a great one.

heb


----------



## TheDude

Bill, I just had an idea. I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if this has been proposed already.

Have you considered making a MKII novelty anchor for the Kingston? I'd gladly pay extra for something like this. Making a small novelty item part of the offering could be used to create a more distinct limited edition aura for this and future LE projects. Just a thought.


----------



## tallguy

Yao said:


> The first draft of the case design is ready. The revised bracelet drawings are also ready for my review. I have to review both sets of drawings this weekend. Please note that no images of the drawings posted at this time because I am certain that changes will be required. I haven't ever seen a set of 1st draft drawings that didn't need significant changes but things are moving.


The suspense is killing me....any new drawings to post?:-x:-x:thanks


----------



## usc1

sunster said:


> I'm on the 40+ camp.
> 
> By the way...this thread is ridiculously huge...any chance of starting a second thread for the Kingston discussion?


i concur. one can get lost in a forest of posts this long. :-d


----------



## Recht

Yao said:


> To say the same thing a differently it would be as if one os buying the Bond Omega without all of the signage and opting for the watch that JB actually worn in the movie.
> 
> However that having been said I was thinging about a piece of swag that this dial idea would tie into very well.





Yao said:


> its not like I will be giving away DB4s and dates with Eva Green. I haven't said anything up to this point because I am not sure I am going to do it. I would rather spend more money on making the watch as nice as it can be than trinkets.





TheDude said:


> Bill, I just had an idea. I haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if this has been proposed already.
> 
> Have you considered making a MKII novelty anchor for the Kingston? I'd gladly pay extra for something like this. Making a small novelty item part of the offering could be used to create a more distinct limited edition aura for this and future LE projects. Just a thought.


It looks like Bill may include some "Swag" with the Kingston project if costs allow.


----------



## messenius

All this waiting is even harder than I thought. 

And I'm not even a hard core rolex fan.


----------



## Marley1966

Excuse my ignorance here, I haven't ordered a Kingston yet. Is it too late to do so? Does 'second stage orders closed' mean that's it, no more orders at all?

I would hate to think I have missed the boat!

By the way, did anybody see the 'Kingston' 60s divers watch on Ebay a while ago? It looked like a cheapie chrome diver, common to that period, but it was interesting to see that the name has been used before.


----------



## tallguy

Marley1966 said:


> Excuse my ignorance here, I haven't ordered a Kingston yet. Is it too late to do so? Does 'second stage orders closed' mean that's it, no more orders at all?
> 
> I would hate to think I have missed the boat!
> 
> By the way, did anybody see the 'Kingston' 60s divers watch on Ebay a while ago? It looked like a cheapie chrome diver, common to that period, but it was interesting to see that the name has been used before.


I believe Bill said that the final 100 would be reserved for the couple of Retailers he has like Gnomon and a couple of others.:think: You could always shoot him an email as some may have backed out.


----------



## obie

The last 100 pieces will be available for general ordering direct from MKII and also through out authorized dealer network. 

General ordering isn't opening and we do not have a firm date when it will, so those interested will need to wait for the announcement here, or keep an eye out on the website.


----------



## Marley1966

Thanks. I don't suppose we know what configuration the last 100 will be?

Bill, if anybody drops out of the pre-order, I'll happily take their place!


----------



## obie

We will build them up in the different configurations that will be offered. They will probably be split up in the % that the preorders customers order them.


----------



## TheDude

Just ordered my parts kit about 30 minutes ago!


----------



## iFunky

I've done my handover :-!


----------



## Marley1966

Unfortunately, due to financial circumstances beyond my control, I was unable to commit to the ordering during the first and second stage (despite taking part in the initial discussions which was most enjoyable). These circumstances have now changed (I'm not going to loose my job!)

So I was wondering, if it is agreeable with Bill and Obie, would it be possible to be a 'reserve' pre-order person? 

What I mean is, should somebody wish to pull out of pre-order, I would happily step in to take the place of the unfortunate soul.

Is this possible?


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

Best email Obie and Bill on that one directly.


----------



## obie

MKII won't get involved in what was suggested above. If two people want to work it out, that is up to them. However the person listed on the preorder is responsible for final payment, the watch will be shipped to them, and the warranty will be addressed to the preorder customer. If two people want to work something out off of the forum and between themselves, then there is nothing for MKII to do or say.


----------



## k7lro

obie said:


> MKII won't get involved in what was suggested above. If two people want to work it out, that is up to them. However the person listed on the preorder is responsible for final payment, the watch will be shipped to them, and the warranty will be addressed to the preorder customer. If two people want to work something out off of the forum and between themselves, then there is nothing for MKII to do or say.


Let capitalism rule!

I keep waivering between waiting and attempting to pick up one or two MKII in trade for the plank reservation that I have. :think: Just can't seem to make up my mind but it's nice to know that we're free to cut our own side deals. ;-)


----------



## Cowbiker

speculation did wonders for the residential real estate market didn't it?


----------



## k7lro

Cowbiker said:


> speculation did wonders for the residential real estate market didn't it?


It has worked out well for me but since my response isn't related to MKII watches, we can go to the Cafe to talk about real estate and capitalism. ;-)


----------



## Cowbiker

Oh believe me, I subscribe to the skool.:-!

Just saddens me when I see it rear it's head in collectibles (speculation), but alas, it happens. One of the reasons a certain other maker's 'historics' aren't in my collection, despite a healthy appreciation for them.

I suspect the MKII brand tends to attract enthusiast more than speculators though, a lot of helpful, stand-up WUS's own multiple MKII's.


----------



## k7lro

Ah - got it. I'm not a speculator - just someone of limited patience trying to hang in there. I would only make a trade for another MKII or two. 

"A bird in the hand" so to speak. 

I suspect that at the end of the day, I'll hang in there but I learned a long time ago, never say no. 

:thanks


----------



## Cowbiker

:-!gotcha, original comment was more hoping you wouldn't be prey for a speculator.

Going to be a neat product oversized winder sold me on it; historic, utilitarian and so contrarian to the current trend. ;-)


----------



## JDS (Ohio)

No collecting for me, I just like the watch - you sure can't buy its like from Rolex these days. Anyway, I'm just glad I got my reservation in, and don't have to go try and talk someone out of their's.


----------



## Marley1966

I just want a large crown submariner! This is for keeps, not for re-sale!


----------



## Cowbiker

Check out this 'High Dome' Saphire

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=271424

Tropic Plexi Medium Dome look w/o the need for polywatch in the watch box?


----------



## tallguy

u guys see these?:-!
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=4505432&rid=0


----------



## Dr. Robert

price is very good, colr too, but I'd like to see the placement of the holes & find out the thickness of the woven nylon fabric....I hold Maratc as the "gold" standard...I got a Corvus Bond stripe strap, but on top of the woven nylon fabric being too thin for my beefier watches(it was returned), the holes are not spaced like the Maratac, which are spaced close & there are a lot of 'em, & for me the beefy fabric grips the skin better, especially w/ a beefy watch, makes it easier to get a precise fit!


----------



## Cowbiker

tallguy said:


> u guys see these?:-!


Poster does not list available widths.

I'd be interest in a 16mm RAF as Cam doesn't offer that width.


----------



## Docwein

*I own 2 Corvus Bond straps, a 22mm for my Stingray.....*

and an 18mm for the Kingston. Very well made, great buckle, better than most natos, colors and thickness to my liking. I must admit I really like the 18mm with my 22mm lug Stingray, a real Bond look. I highly recommend, as for the others, I believe a host of copies will follow. :-s
PS, Cam is great to deal with, great straps and a nice watch, what a combo.


----------



## Cowbiker

Poster replied that only offering 20mm.

Have Cam's 18mm Raf

Movie was a 16mm Raf

I got a custom 16mm Raf directly from Pheonix but it is grey.b-)


----------



## scudracer

Bill good job with this MkII any plans for hardening the case surface, e.g. 'Kolsterising'?


----------



## obie

scudracer said:


> Bill good job with this MkII any plans for hardening the case surface, e.g. 'Kolsterising'?


We will not, as kolsterising will change the color of the case.


----------



## scudracer

You know Kingston is such a nice name because it's in Jamaica, and Jamaica is a historic destination for John Harrison's timekeeper which was placed aboard the Deptford, bound for Jamaica in 1761.

http://www.surveyhistory.org/john_harrison's_timepiece1.htm
http://www.antique-pocket-watch.com/john-harrison-longitude-problem.html


----------



## gerard88t

Hi,

Status updates of the Kingston have been stagnant here of late. Bill, any personal posts coming soon regarding the project and where it is currently?
Would like some teasers to help the waiting.

Thanks


----------



## Farrell

Yeah I'd also love to know where things are at. I've been so so busy with work and other things I've not been following close.

Also now we're in 3rd quarter just another few months to go!


----------



## bompi

It would be very nice to get our Kingston around X-mas.


----------



## Yao

*Update on the Kingston coming up...*

a lot has been going on behind the scenes. Here is a brief summary:

* Case and bracelet samples will be here around the middle of September
* I am working through the dial samples and hope to begin mass production in about 2 weeks
* Bezel inlays and crowns will be done around the middle of October
* The hands are done and were delivered a few weeks ago

Over the weekend I should be able to post a pic of the sample dial with the hands.


----------



## gerard88t

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*

Friggin exciting news Bill! Thank you for the update!!!


Yao said:


> a lot has been going on behind the scenes. Here is a brief summary:
> 
> * Case and bracelet samples will be here around the middle of September
> * I am working through the dial samples and hope to begin mass production in about 2 weeks
> * Bezel inlays and crowns will be done around the middle of October
> * The hands are done and were delivered a few weeks ago
> 
> Over the weekend I should be able to post a pic of the sample dial with the hands.


----------



## sschum

Excellent, Bill. Thanks for the update.

Scott


----------



## sunster

Awesome

(Could you start a new thread? This one is gettin impossible)


----------



## messenius

This is good news

Thanks for the update


----------



## NWP627

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*

Fantastic Bill, I can't wait to see what this looks like in the metal and then on my wrist.
N


----------



## giosdad

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*

Great to hear from you and even better with a Kingston update.

We know you have been busy and we prefer you at the bench rather than the computer but an update is a real treat. Thanks.

+1 on a new thread. Though this one needs to stay preserved for historical reference.


----------



## GregoryD

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*

+2 on a new thread - I can't find anything on this one anymore!


----------



## iFunky

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*



Yao said:


> Over the weekend I should be able to post a pic of the sample dial with the hands.


Did I missed the new thread? :think:

:thanks


----------



## bullitt731

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*

:thanks:thanks


Yao said:


> a lot has been going on behind the scenes. Here is a brief summary:
> 
> * Case and bracelet samples will be here around the middle of September
> * I am working through the dial samples and hope to begin mass production in about 2 weeks
> * Bezel inlays and crowns will be done around the middle of October
> * The hands are done and were delivered a few weeks ago
> 
> Over the weekend I should be able to post a pic of the sample dial with the hands.


Thanks for the update Bill, perhaps when you have the pictures you could start a new thread which would make it a little easier for us to follow the progress of the project.


----------



## gshock82

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*

a new thread would be most appreciated


----------



## Yao

*Re: Update on the Kingston coming up...*

Closing thread by request. I will post a new thread in a few minutes.


----------

