# Fortis v Ball?



## watchhound (Apr 16, 2006)

Am looking for an affordable but well made chrono with a 7750. Am considering a Ball Ionosphere and a Fortis Flieger? chrono. I believe the Fortis uses a better grade of the 7750 than the Ball but, IMO, looks like Ball is a little more refined and better made? Am curious if anyone has an opinion on this who might have owned both. Really want to hear input before pulling the trigger on either. Thanks!


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

*I recently was faced with the same decision*



watchhound said:


> Am looking for an affordable but well made chrono with a 7750. Am considering a Ball Ionosphere and a Fortis Flieger? chrono. I believe the Fortis uses a better grade of the 7750 than the Ball but, IMO, looks like Ball is a little more refined and better made? Am curious if anyone has an opinion on this who might have owned both. Really want to hear input before pulling the trigger on either. Thanks!


Hello,

They both use the basic 7750 movement grade which is rather glamorously called "Elaborate". Unless you have some overwhelming reason to think otherwise--like a chronometer certified chrono--you can bet a lot that all 7750 equipped chronographs have the "elaborate" grade of movement. That's not to denigrate that particular grade because it's a reliable and accurate movement in its own right. There may be a few "finish" categories within that grade, but I don't know for sure.

So for me, it came down to which one I liked the look of better since they are roughly priced the same over the internet. I really wanted a Ball Skylab LE chrono but it was over $1K more than the other two.

I chose the Fortis B42 black dial fleiger because it was on a good sale, I liked its looks a bit better, and I've wanted a Fortis chronograph for a long time.

heb

heb


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## watchhound (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: I recently was faced with the same decision*

Thanks. I was told that the Fortis has one grade better than the Ball - there is a grade between elaborate and chonometer cert (the top) and this is the one that Fortis uses while Ball uses the elab. I am not sure it makes much diff either but it is interesting. I am more concerned with overall impressions between the two... Thanks for your response.


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

*Re: I recently was faced with the same decision*



watchhound said:


> Thanks. I was told that the Fortis has one grade better than the Ball - there is a grade between elaborate and chonometer cert (the top) and this is the one that Fortis uses while Ball uses the elab. I am not sure it makes much diff either but it is interesting. I am more concerned with overall impressions between the two... Thanks for your response.


How do you know Fortis uses the "Top" grade? I hope you're right.

From Wikipedia: "...The key components which differ at the line of demarcation between Elaborated and Top are the pallet stones, balance wheel & hairspring and the regulator mechanism. To illustrate the differences in accuracy garnered by the successive grades, consider the following specifications: the Elaborated grade is adjusted in three positions with an average rate of +/-5 seconds/day with a maximum daily variation of +/-15 seconds/day; while the Top grade is adjusted in five positions with an average rate of +/-4 seconds/day with a maximum daily variation of +/-10 seconds/day."

heb


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## watchhound (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: I recently was faced with the same decision*



heb said:


> How do you know Fortis uses the "Top" grade? I hope you're right.
> 
> From Wikipedia: "...The key components which differ at the line of demarcation between Elaborated and Top are the pallet stones, balance wheel & hairspring and the regulator mechanism. To illustrate the differences in accuracy garnered by the successive grades, consider the following specifications: the Elaborated grade is adjusted in three positions with an average rate of +/-5 seconds/day with a maximum daily variation of +/-15 seconds/day; while the Top grade is adjusted in five positions with an average rate of +/-4 seconds/day with a maximum daily variation of +/-10 seconds/day."
> 
> heb


This is what I was told by someone who deals in both brands:

"The Fortis has the better movement, Ball generally uses ETA's "elaboré" grade, while Fortis uses ETA's "top" grade movements in the B-42 series. As for ETA movement grades, it's 4 in total: "standard", "elaboré", "top" and "chronometer", with the "top" and "chronometer" being technically identical, but the "top" grade did not undergo the C.O.S.C. chronometer certification."


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

Fortis are insanely great watches.
Chunky, manly, simple, easy-to-read, unique.

Ball, OTOH, are like gems. I have the Mad Cow black, Mad Cow white, and another I forget.

Can't go wrong either way. All about personal taste.


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## SHL-5 (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes agree with slb that both are great watches. At one time i was rather keen to get the Ball Aviator but went for B42 MarineMaster instead. However, the Ball has this self powered micro gas or something on its hands & indices that makes for excellent luminosity in dark places. But somehow i feel that Fortis will wear better in the long run over the Ball so that's why i chose the Marinemaster. ;-)


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

*Neither of these, but what about this one?*



watchhound said:


> Am looking for an affordable but well made chrono with a 7750. Am considering a Ball Ionosphere and a Fortis Flieger? chrono. I believe the Fortis uses a better grade of the 7750 than the Ball but, IMO, looks like Ball is a little more refined and better made? Am curious if anyone has an opinion on this who might have owned both. Really want to hear input before pulling the trigger on either. Thanks!


Hello,

I've looked at, and ruminated over, these for the last 3 years. Look at it carefully; so it probably won't compete too well with a Breitling or IWC chronograph, but it certainly would with the ones we are talking about here.
At less than 50% of their cost too. Google the brand name to find out where they are sold.

heb


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## bmxbandit (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Neither of these, but what about this one?*

I think Ball just don't look quite as good. Plus, they've not been into Space! (That makes ALL the difference!?)
I've a B42 Pilot Chrono with the 7720 and it keeps time like its Quartz. I proper beat it up, too - but it just feels like it will endure.


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## Redrum (Sep 17, 2008)

1.- I think Ball has some connection now with space with their new hydrocarbon model.
2.- I know that Mido uses top grade on their Multifort line of chronograph's.

Mido doen't make it a secret, it is well explained and detailed on their webpage (you can even download a .pdf file). I recently asked in the TAG forum which grade was used in their movements and didn't get any good responses.
It is relevant information IMHO, because it is linked directly to the expected accuracy of the watch, and in the end it's what we are all looking for: a good, solid accurate timepiece.

Take care men!

RR


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

Redrum said:


> I recently asked in the TAG forum which grade was used in their movements and didn't get any good responses.


You got good responses, you just didn't get the answer you expected.

Despite what Ball reps may say, most of the Ball watches do not come as "off-the-shelf" movements with a grade, either. I can see that because most of them have higher hand fitting heights than can be ordered "off-the-shelf". That's to accommodate the GTLS.

Also, since the shock protection type is one of the differences between elaboré and top grades (on 2824/2836), it would seem Ball, with their higher advertised level of shock protection, would use the superior version found in "Top".

On Fortis grades: it appears that most of the recent versions of the Flieger Chrono use "Top".

-s-


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## Arachnodactyly (Sep 16, 2008)

You can't go wrong between the watches on your shorlist IMO, i like the stormchaser out of the ball chronographs. The Fortis and the Ball Fireman/ionoshere chronographs are some stand outs in the price range IMO.

However, before you do i would look into this http://watch-happening.blogspot.com/2009/02/pre-basel-2009-maurice-lacroix-pontos.html

It depends what kind of discount you're looking at on the others but in the UK at the moment the ML is actually cheaper at RRP. Designing chronograph dials is one of the things ML does best, and that case is killer.








http://watch-happening.blogspot.com/2009/02/pre-basel-2009-maurice-lacroix-pontos.html


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## cnmark (Jul 30, 2006)

*Re: I recently was faced with the same decision*



heb said:


> How do you know Fortis uses the "Top" grade? I hope you're right.
> 
> From Wikipedia: "...The key components which differ at the line of demarcation between Elaborated and Top are the pallet stones, balance wheel & hairspring and the regulator mechanism. To illustrate the differences in accuracy garnered by the successive grades, consider the following specifications: the Elaborated grade is adjusted in three positions with an average rate of +/-5 seconds/day with a maximum daily variation of +/-15 seconds/day; while the Top grade is adjusted in five positions with an average rate of +/-4 seconds/day with a maximum daily variation of +/-10 seconds/day."
> 
> heb


If you have a look through the display back of a Fortis B-42 you will notice that the balance has tapered spokes. This is the telltale mark of a Glucydur balance.

And, according to ETA, the Glucydur balance is only used in the "Top" and "Chronometer" grades.


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

*Re: I recently was faced with the same decision*

Thanks CN.

heb


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

*No Glucydur balance wheel on my B-42 Flieger chronograph*



cnmark said:


> If you have a look through the display back of a Fortis B-42 you will notice that the balance has tapered spokes. This is the telltale mark of a Glucydur balance.
> 
> And, according to ETA, the Glucydur balance is only used in the "Top" and "Chronometer" grades.


Hello CN,

Just checked using a magnifying glass; spokes are definitely straight. This means "elaborate" version of the 7750. The balance's gold plated Ni balance matches what the attached document (from Watch Time magazine) says about the watch (see page "84).

heb


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## cnmark (Jul 30, 2006)

*Re: No Glucydur balance wheel on my B-42 Flieger chronograph*



heb said:


> Hello CN,
> 
> Just checked using a magnifying glass; spokes are definitely straight. This means "elaborate" version of the 7750. The balance's gold plated Ni balance matches what the attached document (from Watch Time magazine) says about the watch (see page "84).
> 
> heb


That's rather interesting, I am very sure that every B-42 with display back that I had in my hand (mostly 2836 and 2893 powered watches) so far _did_ have the tapered spokes.

Need to check my photo archive (7 years and 10,000s of images) if I have any shot that shows the balance at rest - most shots that I have are from running watches - no way to see the shape of the spokes on these.

That watchtime article I have read on paper, both in the Watchtime version and in the original version(*), but have to admit that I overread the Fortis' specs.

(*) Watchtime rarely has "original" or "in-house" tests, most is bought from German magazines - the "Pilot's Watch" test is a slightly abbreviated translation of an article that was published some months earlier in a German watch magazine, that also did the original testing.


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