# Suunto Spartan Trainer Wrist HR



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

I probably shouldn't even be the one to post that since Suunto has now made it obvious they (or at least, the one person responsible for that decision) don't find my reviews/how-to worth working with me, but anyways:

Spartan Trainer Wrist HR has just been announced: Suunto Spartan Collection - adventure multisport GPS watches

SUUNTO CUTS WEIGHT WITH SPARTAN TRAINER WRIST HR


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

DC Rainmaker review (Really, an outright review already?)

The5kRunner First Look


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## likepend1

i was expecting them to go back to the AMBIT design!! 'external' antenna-bump (accuracy & more room for battery), 5 buttons (no touch screen), same software as SSU & 280$ are .... yeah i am calling it here ... a new "AMBIT 2S". This watch is what a lot of people were waiting for! WELL DONE SUUNTO!!!

DCR:


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Going by the rumors for the Trainer that were there when the Spartan originally came out already, this isn't a "going back" anywhere, though; this was (well, seems to have been; what do we ever know) in the plans from the beginning. I.e., don't expect a Spartan 2 to look more Ambit-like again; don't take that (as people were arguing back then) as a sign that Suunto now implicitly admits that the Spartan design was not good (enough), GPS-wise. Especially given the MediaTek chip that is in the Trainer., where we'll have to see how it behaves. For longer than an in-depth of a few runs (do I hope Fellrunner has some money left for that)...


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## martowl

Just going through the comparison function on Suunto.com and noted that the battery life for Best and Good is better for the Trainer than the Sport OHR 10,14,25 vs. 8,12,30, respectively. One very important item is the display on the Trainer is 218x218 pixels while the other Spartans are 320x300 so the screen will not be as good on the Trainer. That alone probably accounts for the battery life differences.


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## Egika

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> DC Rainmaker review (Really, an outright review already?)
> 
> The5kRunner First Look


Yeah, those people blogging about equipment get pre-realease devices, so their review can be ready with the launch of the product.
Actually I think this is a good thing that us users don't have to wait for the product to reach the stores until there are reviews from credible people.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Egika said:


> Yeah, those people blogging about equipment get pre-realease devices, so their review can be ready with the launch of the product.
> Actually I think this is a good thing that us users don't have to wait for the product to reach the stores until there are reviews from credible people.


Uhm, Search Results for "suunto" - at home in&#8230; ... my comment was more because that was not enough time to really consider anything in-depth, or even a review, yet. But hey, who am I (see beginning of this paragraph...)


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## bruceames

Wow I'm a little surprised at this. Never thought they would continue to introduce models with an Ambit 'nub' design, especially with a Spartan name attached to it. Just as surprising is the low price. I'll probably buy it just out of curiosity and to check out the wrist HR. However I'm used to the touchscreen and the higher resolution display and it remains to be seen how comfortable it is compared the Ultra. The Ultra was a significant improvement in comfort and readability.

If only it had barometric altitude. Glad it's getting a good review from DCRainmaker. At that price point it's sure going to attract a lot of buyers.


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## dcrainmaker

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Uhm, Search Results for "suunto" - at home in&#8230; ... my comment was more because that was not enough time to really consider anything in-depth, or even a review, yet. But hey, who am I (see beginning of this paragraph...)


I've got about 10 workouts on it at this point, across a variety of sports. That seems like a pretty valid number to me for a review. Some devices get more (lots more), some devices get less. Just depends on what I'm working on overall and how stable I feel the product is. At this point it's a final production device with what is probably one minor firmware update away from being final. As noted in the post I'll continue to test it after they start shipping to validate anything else pops up.


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## user_none

martowl said:


> One very important item is the display on the Trainer is 218x218 pixels while the other Spartans are 320x300 so the screen will not be as good on the Trainer. That alone probably accounts for the battery life differences.


If you notice, the Trainer has a smaller screen, though I don't know the dimensions. Smaller screen, with that pixel count could result in close to the same pixel density.


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## user_none

Is it just me, or does that look like the slide up drawer of a Spartan touch screen model in this picture? It's taken directly from the Suunto site, BTW.


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## IronP

Interesting watch from suunto...wonder why they skip the "Glonass" support on this unit.


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## Egika

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Uhm, Search Results for "suunto" - at home in&#8230; ... my comment was more because that was not enough time to really consider anything in-depth, or even a review, yet. But hey, who am I (see beginning of this paragraph...)


Did not notice you also like to blog on gadgets. No need to be frustrated. Maybe your blog does not reach too far yet...


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## Egika

IronP said:


> Interesting watch from suunto...wonder why they skip the "Glonass" support on this unit.


They are using a different GPS chip with the trainer. Getting it without Glonass probably saves some money and hey: everyone has been recommending to switch it off anyway...


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## user_none

IronP said:


> Interesting watch from suunto...wonder why they skip the "Glonass" support on this unit.


It's the chipset they're using, an MTK MT3339. Probably cheaper, and GLONASS is not the helpful thing its made out to be. I mean, how many people have written, "GLONASS made GPS tracking sooooo much better!"? Better to have it than not, but at the low cost of the Trainer, I'm not surprised.

https://labs.mediatek.com/en/chipset/MT3339


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

user_none said:


> Is it just me, or does that look like the slide up drawer of a Spartan touch screen model in this picture? It's taken directly from the Suunto site, BTW.
> View attachment 12416747


Looks like it, but that's no issue. You can get into that with the buttons even on the touchscreen Spartans.


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## martowl

user_none said:


> If you notice, the Trainer has a smaller screen, though I don't know the dimensions. Smaller screen, with that pixel count could result in close to the same pixel density.


I did just notice, I think you are right the resolution is likely similar or identical. However, reading carefully again in sport modes the 7 field option is not available, only 5 fields. I never use the 7 anyway so it does not matter to me.

I purchased a Copper Sport OHR awhile back and wear it as a daily watch. I use it for all my weekday workouts and track HR while I sleep (although this is not working correctly). I thought I would never use a watch without an altimeter and thought optical HR was not for me. I have grown to like the watch very much. The GPS-based altitude is darn good, a bit slower than the SSU and it takes more of a change to register but it works much better than I thought it would. The OHR is great, it has quirks when I start and when I go hard downhill but overall works well. It was nice to go on a 2 day trip to Chicago and not have to worry about bringing my HR strap and then remember to put it on. I use my SSU for long runs on the weekends but I don't mind having two watches.

Soooo, based on my experiences if some of you are thinking about the Trainer even though you have an SSU, I would buy one given my experience with the Copper OHR. The Trainer is darn cheap and will work well as a daily watch. A smaller watch that you can simply turn on for a move is quite convenient. I hope the sleep tracking is ported to the OHR Sport units, I imagine it will be. I will find that useful as the description states an average HR during sleep will be recorded. That should be a good number to have for recovery. Anyway, happy with 2 watches now. If I did not have the Sport OHR I would be pre-ordering a Trainer...have fun out there.

I am selling my Ambit as well, convinced that the Spartan will continue to improve and trying to use the Ambit just isn't worth it for me anymore.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

dcrainmaker said:


> I've got about 10 workouts on it at this point, across a variety of sports. That seems like a pretty valid number to me for a review. Some devices get more (lots more), some devices get less. Just depends on what I'm working on overall and how stable I feel the product is. At this point it's a final production device with what is probably one minor firmware update away from being final. As noted in the post I'll continue to test it after they start shipping to validate anything else pops up.


I'd be ashamed to call that in-depth, but hey, whatever rocks your readership. And they love you no matter what.

Okay, no, sarcasm off: I think I'd want a statistically relevant set of data re. GPS performance for something that's an in-depth review, after all the hullabaloo about the Spartan GPS. Which not even I could provide, but then, I'm more about the how-to and best practices, so another kind of product guidance, anyways. Fortunately, Fellrunner just said that he is planning on getting a Trainer. In retail, not from the company.

You know we also disagree on enough other things. But between you and me and everyone else, there's good insights to be had. Or would be, if attention and support didn't just go the way they do, where I used to work with Suunto and well and it still leads nowhere better. (Yeah, I know, just do better work, and marketing, and SEO, and time travel to have started earlier, and...)


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> I hope the sleep tracking is ported to the OHR Sport units, I imagine it will be.


The software platform is basically the same across the Spartan range, or should be. Minus things that depend on barometric pressure on watches that don't have a barometer (i.e. all but the Ultra) or tracking that needs an oHR on watches that don't have that (i.e., the Ultra). Of course, I could be mistaken...


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## dcrainmaker

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I'd be ashamed to call that in-depth, but hey, whatever rocks your readership. And they love you no matter what.
> 
> Okay, no, sarcasm off: I think I'd want a statistically relevant set of data re. GPS performance for something that's an in-depth review, after all the hullabaloo about the Spartan GPS. Which not even I could provide, but then, I'm more about the how-to and best practices, so another kind of product guidance, anyways. Fortunately, Fellrunner just said that he is planning on getting a Trainer. In retail, not from the company.
> 
> You know we also disagree on enough other things. But between you and me and everyone else, there's good insights to be had. Or would be, if attention and support didn't just go the way they do, where I used to work with Suunto and well and it still leads nowhere better. (Yeah, I know, just do better work, and marketing, and SEO, and time travel to have started earlier, and...)


You do realize I re-buy all these devices, right? So the usage of the Suunto Spartan Ultra I have is a unit not from Suunto?

As for a statistically relevant set of data - can you explain precisely what that is? I'm curious, I don't see it in any of your in-depth reviews - or really any data provided at all. And certainly not in Fellrunner's. I'm not sure how re-running the same route over and over but not using the same devices on one at the same time is all that relevant. Different conditions lead to different results. Test things at the same time across a wide variety of conditions.

And the whole thing about not getting a loaner device is somewhat laughable too, since it's actually precisely what your complaining about numerous times in this thread and on Twitter. You can't really have it both ways. You can't complain that you didn't get a device to test, but then lambast others because they did get a device to test as saying those results are invalid.


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## the5krunner

user_none said:


> It's the chipset they're using, an MTK MT3339. Probably cheaper, and GLONASS is not the helpful thing its made out to be. I mean, how many people have written, "GLONASS made GPS tracking sooooo much better!"? Better to have it than not, but at the low cost of the Trainer, I'm not surprised.
> 
> https://labs.mediatek.com/en/chipset/MT3339


indeed so. i often find that glonass with running makes it (subjectively) worse


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## the5krunner

dcrainmaker said:


> You do realize I re-buy all these devices, right? So the usage of the Suunto Spartan Ultra I have is a unit not from Suunto?
> 
> As for a statistically relevant set of data - can you explain precisely what that is? I'm curious, I don't see it in any of your in-depth reviews - or really any data provided at all. And certainly not in Fellrunner's. I'm not sure how re-running the same route over and over but not using the same devices on one at the same time is all that relevant. Different conditions lead to different results. Test things at the same time across a wide variety of conditions.
> 
> And the whole thing about not getting a loaner device is somewhat laughable too, since it's actually precisely what your complaining about numerous times in this thread and on Twitter. You can't really have it both ways. You can't complain that you didn't get a device to test, but then lambast others because they did get a device to test as saying those results are invalid.


Can I play too?

a statistically relavent set must be at least 20 i would imagine. Maybe 30. eesh, 30 bikes swims and runs....for HR you'd definately have to do different types of runs too....thirty times.

but i don't think that is the point anyway

we could develop a method to assess GPS accuracy whilst running but it would never be repeatable in the real world as there are way too many variable factors involved. Taking that argument to the extreme, if Ray developed his near-perfect Paris-method then you can bet that manufacturers would design watches to pass that test. Pointless. (I witnessed precisley that with various IT benchmarks in jobs-gone-by)

I might criticise Ray for comparing watches on his left and right wrist at the same time. Honestly it REALLY DOES make a difference for the side nearest to a wall or hedge. 
BUT there are advantages in doing what he does and how he does it.

Ray might criticise me for re-running a long a GPS-challenging route. Satellite positions and other factors WOULD make a difference. 
BUT it gives some sort of standard for me to make sure that I put watches through specific and broadly repeatable conditions that other people encounter in the real world. Obviosuly we all look at and compare ad-hoc routes as well.

Fellrnr does a statistical analysis. I think there are problems with his route and GPS hazards 
BUT it's YET ANOTHER approach with some (a lot, imho) validity.

Interestingly I get pretty similar results to fellrnr. (Ray doesn't offer any sort of gps ranking, so i'm not saying i disagree with Ray. I'd never not do nothing like that  )

I'm just sending James Gill an email too. He can come round to play later (titaniumgeek)

In the end we are all just trying to help people right? Must be a good thing. I'm going back to my other job now...food to buy and all that.


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## sb029111

martowl said:


> Just going through the comparison function on Suunto.com and noted that the battery life for Best and Good is better for the Trainer than the Sport OHR 10,14,25 vs. 8,12,30, respectively. One very important item is the display on the Trainer is 218x218 pixels while the other Spartans are 320x300 so the screen will not be as good on the Trainer. That alone probably accounts for the battery life differences.


Yeah, at first, I was a little miffed, looking at the external bump told me that Suunto had given up on the SirfStar V chipset for the GPS, going back to the Ambit scene, and bringing out yet another model, mostly because the Ultra/Sport weren't selling as they had hoped. Looking at the Trainer though, I don't think it's aimed at the same market share as the Ultra/Sport/Fenix series, it's more for the Fitbit crowd, but the impression is that they're tired of the problems with the original Ultra/Sport watches. 
Looking at the pictures, and the comparisons from DCRainmaker, I believe that while the pixel count is indeed smaller on the Trainer, I also believe the screen actually appears smaller on the Trainer, it may be illusion, but it appears to be so. That would account for the lower pixel count I believe.


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## bruceames

For those using the Spartan Sport, how much of a battery drain is the optical HR?


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## the5krunner

sb029111 said:


> Yeah, at first, I was a little miffed, looking at the external bump told me that Suunto had given up on the SirfStar V chipset for the GPS, going back to the Ambit scene, and bringing out yet another model, mostly because the Ultra/Sport weren't selling as they had hoped. Looking at the Trainer though, I don't think it's aimed at the same market share as the Ultra/Sport/Fenix series, it's more for the Fitbit crowd, but the impression is that they're tired of the problems with the original Ultra/Sport watches.
> Looking at the pictures, and the comparisons from DCRainmaker, I believe that while the pixel count is indeed smaller on the Trainer, I also believe the screen actually appears smaller on the Trainer, it may be illusion, but it appears to be so. That would account for the lower pixel count I believe.


yes i just think the 218x218 is the proportional number of pixels from the smaller screen.
yes it's aimed at a different market....budget sports ie its probably the cheapest tri-watch intended as a tri watch
the mediatek performance is very good, imo


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## martowl

Hard to say Bruce but for the Sport version lacking OHR 10,16,40h for GPS and for the Sport with OHR it is 8,12,30h so if these two models are virtually identical then there is certainly a hit with the OHR. The Trainer appears to have a bit better battery life. However, the low color mode and screen timeout can dramatically alter(improve) battery life (they have for me.)


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## bruceames

That's a lot better than I thought. The Scosche only lasts about 8 hours or so and it doesn't have GPS. My wife runs and hikes part time so I'll probably get a color that she likes and have her use it since she'll like the idea of a low profile watch that doesn't require a chest strap (she likes monitoring her HR, especially on hikes).


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## Egika

martowl said:


> However, the low color mode and screen timeout can dramatically alter(improve) battery life (they have for me.)


most so the screen timeout.
According to my own experiments the low color mode has a neglectable influence.


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## IronP

Egika said:


> most so the screen timeout.
> According to my own experiments the low color mode has a neglectable influence.


for me both did not improve the battery life dramatically (maybe some mins in a 3h to 4h training session), since i am always using autolaps. 
I tried separately as well:

-just low color setting = no improvements (but in this one, i guess that you will see a difference if you use the watch in the graph face all the time, what i do not use. I only check the graph a few times while training)

-just display time out = some mins in a long training session. If you use autolaps like me, almost no improvements, because the autolaps triggers the display to on for some seconds.

What worked for me was the change on the gps recording sampling and turning the glonass support off.


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## Garda

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I'd be ashamed to call that in-depth, but hey, whatever rocks your readership. And they love you no matter what.
> 
> Okay, no, sarcasm off: I think I'd want a statistically relevant set of data re. GPS performance for something that's an in-depth review, after all the hullabaloo about the Spartan GPS. Which not even I could provide, but then, I'm more about the how-to and best practices, so another kind of product guidance, anyways. Fortunately, Fellrunner just said that he is planning on getting a Trainer. In retail, not from the company.
> 
> You know we also disagree on enough other things. But between you and me and everyone else, there's good insights to be had. Or would be, if attention and support didn't just go the way they do, where I used to work with Suunto and well and it still leads nowhere better. (Yeah, I know, just do better work, and marketing, and SEO, and time travel to have started earlier, and...)


I think Ray´s reviews are the only ones that graphically overlap heart rate data. It is specifically important with optical heart rate monitors to get a good overview about their accuracy.


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## XCJagge

dcrainmaker said:


> I'm not sure how re-running the same route over and over but not using the same devices on one at the same time is all that relevant. Different conditions lead to different results. Test things at the same time across a wide variety of conditions..


You guys do great reviews. With limited time you have it is not that easy to improve. It usually is not possible to get enough data for proper statistical analysis in reasonable time, so it boils down to getting most out of one or handful of runs. And there is something you actually could do differently.

Here is two simple ways to improve gps reviews we typically see (quite a bit IMHO):
1. When you make trail test run in forest like here with the Trainer and two other units, instead of running one large loop turn around at halfway and run the exact same trails back. Like this we can see how close together out and back lines are, and how tree cover affects that, are sharp turns overlapping or coming "too early", are errors constant and systematic, does it recording tiny turns in or is it just smoothing details out and so on. Now you usually do one wide loop and we really can't know where the correct track is making it all more or less guessing, even for you like admit in this review. Also, do the run with a well known watch in the other hand as a comparison device, to have something to compare against and also to get some idea if conditions were good or bad at that day. One could of course do this run over a over again hundred times and make statistical analysis, but it is lots of work and just one run like this usually tells 80% of the story.
2. When you do loops several times do half of the loops the other direction around. It would reveal systematic errors better, issues you will not see when you go always the same way around.


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## Egika

The question is why you would even care for the last few meters of GPS accuracy in a sport watch anyway.
Normally an accurate speed and distance measurement are the things you need. If the track wanders a little around the real path doesn't make a difference.


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## XCJagge

I agree for most users track details or extreme accuracy does not matter. Still, distance measurements are in the end based on position accuracy. Algorithms just build on that, if raw data isn't accurate there is no much algorithms can do. For example if track is always left and you run loops, distance of that loop differs depending on are you running clockwise or counter clockwise. Out and back test reveals many issues better than regular test loop, so why not test it like that even if most users will not care.

My needs are a bit different an I am not the only one. In navigation sports track details are the most interesting thing, reveals what you were doing out there, were you moving straight or did you do unnecessary detours. It is annoying if you can't know was a detour made by you or the watch, or if you cant know was a detour made by you filtered out or not recorded properly by the watch for the lack of accuracy.

Personally the most extreme use case is my head cam video hobby, it just looks pretty bad if location on map does not match with the video picture, like you are running on trail but map tells you are swimming on lake by the trail. Feels waste to time burning maps to video if it s not correct enough. If I can keep the error down at +-5 meters it is fine. See video frame below. A3 peak has been the tool lately, I perfected accuracy (the way I carry it) by doing those out and back test runs on winding trails.









Edit: Well, why don't I post link to the actual video. Imagine this being recorded with fenix3 or SSU with current buggy glonass on.


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## IronP

Egika said:


> The question is why you would even care for the last few meters of GPS accuracy in a sport watch anyway.
> Normally an accurate speed and distance measurement are the things you need. If the track wanders a little around the real path doesn't make a difference.


\]

I see the case when you are following a new route that you uploaded to the watch, or in case you use the follow back function in a route that you don't know...


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## martowl

IronP said:


> for me both did not improve the battery life dramatically (maybe some mins in a 3h to 4h training session), since i am always using autolaps.
> I tried separately as well:
> 
> -just low color setting = no improvements (but in this one, i guess that you will see a difference if you use the watch in the graph face all the time, what i do not use. I only check the graph a few times while training)
> 
> -just display time out = some mins in a long training session. If you use autolaps like me, almost no improvements, because the autolaps triggers the display to on for some seconds.
> 
> What worked for me was the change on the gps recording sampling and turning the glonass support off.


I used both low color and display time out for a 100K. I did not use autolap and hit the lap button at each aid. Looked at the display once every 30 min or so. After 20h and 40 min battery was 46%! At that rate I should get 40h. GLONASS off Good GPS fix. Specs say 26h. That is a big improvement. Backlight at 15%.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

IronP said:


> \]
> 
> I see the case when you are following a new route that you uploaded to the watch, or in case you use the follow back function in a route that you don't know...


That's both very true and pretty problematic.

What I mean:

I have had situations where I would have wished that the accuracy was higher so I knew better which path to take. Mainly when there were two paths leading away from where I was, quite close to each other and in similar directions, and it was hard to tell which of the two was the one I needed to take.

But, I have seen such problems not just, maybe not even mainly, because of the accuracy of the GPS watch I had on me. Rather, it was a problem with the GPS device with which the route was originally recorded (okay, for that, the accuracy of that device would matter... but even in the out-and-find-back case, when it still makes a difference that you wear your watch on your left/right wrist and it produces a bit of an offset, making the find-back route look a bit different from where you're being shown while you get back*) or, quite simply, that the map/satellite images used to create the route didn't show those trails (and that's a problem where no GPS accuracy would help).

I.e., there are still more factors than the accuracy of the GPS in the watch/device you have on you...

(*That's a case where the out-and-back runs suggested above for GPS testing sound like a very good idea.)


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## mcotignola

Silly question ... will the price change after the pre-order period? 

I love my current ambit3 peak but i am seriously considering buying the trainer with wrist hr.

Thanks 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dcrainmaker

No, the price is set as-is. Nothing will change after the pre-order period.


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## mcotignola

dcrainmaker said:


> No, the price is set as-is. Nothing will change after the pre-order period.


Thank you Dcrainmaker!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## iridium7777

the5krunner said:


> Can I play too?
> 
> a statistically relavent set must be at least 20 i would imagine. Maybe 30. eesh, 30 bikes swims and runs....for HR you'd definately have to do different types of runs too....thirty times.


can i play too, so you two aren't jumping all over dc's nuts and aren't pulling random numbers out of your rears?

a statistically relevant set would be something like 3sigma and you' d have to testing a population of watches and not runs on a single watch. one should be testing every 340th spartan off the production line in a same and consistent manner to get "statistically relevant set", anything less than that is purely arbitrary and made up on a whim.


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## sb029111

user_none said:


> If you notice, the Trainer has a smaller screen, though I don't know the dimensions. Smaller screen, with that pixel count could result in close to the same pixel density.


Has anyone noticed that the $279 model has a Polyamide screen/glass material, but the more expensive model ($329) with the steel bezel has a Mineral Glass screen? Looks like they may be taking lessons from Garmin with the F5 models. Not positive I'd want a plastic screen on my sports watch, heck, I'm antsy enough with Mineral Glass, preferring the Sapphire for safety's sake.


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## user_none

sb029111 said:


> Has anyone noticed that the $279 model has a Polyamide screen/glass material, but the more expensive model ($329) with the steel bezel has a Mineral Glass screen? Looks like they may be taking lessons from Garmin with the F5 models. Not positive I'd want a plastic screen on my sports watch, heck, I'm antsy enough with Mineral Glass, preferring the Sapphire for safety's sake.


And the ones with mineral glass/steel bezel are thinner.


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## Egika

sb029111 said:


> Has anyone noticed that the $279 model has a Polyamide screen/glass material, but the more expensive model ($329) with the steel bezel has a Mineral Glass screen? Looks like they may be taking lessons from Garmin with the F5 models. Not positive I'd want a plastic screen on my sports watch, heck, I'm antsy enough with Mineral Glass, preferring the Sapphire for safety's sake.


 It's a budget training model. That's why it has budget materials.
My T6 also had a plastic screen and it was a very good training watch. Can't think of too many things scratching my watch during running or cycling.
For outdoors you have the Ultra with higher grade materials.


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## Philip Onayeti

Egika said:


> For outdoors you have the Ultra with higher grade materials.


For outdoors you have Ambit with navigation and weather functions ;-)


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## Egika

Philip Onayeti said:


> For outdoors you have Ambit with navigation and weather functions ;-)


Right. And also the Traverse.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Egika said:


> Right. And also the Traverse.


And the Spartan Ultra after the fall update...


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## pizzaslut

What advantage does this have over the Garmin Vivoactive HR(yes I know it's uglier, but it cost $100 less).

Say I can get the Spartan Sport for the same price as this, which would be better? I know there isn't that much known, but I less interested in the HR(and lesser extend touchscreen) and more interested in GPS, calorie, gym use, and step counter.


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## Egika

pizzaslut said:


> What advantage does this have over the Garmin Vivoactive HR(yes I know it's uglier, but it cost $100 less).
> 
> Say I can get the Spartan Sport for the same price as this, which would be better? I know there isn't that much known, but I less interested in the HR(and lesser extend touchscreen) and more interested in GPS, calorie, gym use, and step counter.


 Just compare the specs. The Garmin cannot do multi sports like triathlons. Also with each device you buy yourself into the website part around it. Just compare these online which has the best data evaluation for you. I like the heat map function of the Movescount site that you can easily make into a route to follow on the watch.


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## pizzaslut

Philip Onayeti said:


> For outdoors you have Ambit with navigation and weather functions ;-)


So would you suggest that over this for hiking, and swimming?


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> So would you suggest that over this for hiking, and swimming?


The Spartan is due for a major outdoor update in October and the development team has stated that they intend to port all of the Ambit functionality to the Spartan. I believe the Spartan will continue to develop, the screen is much, much better than the Ambit and it is lighter and more comfortable to wear. Soon, sleep tracking will be available on the Spartans.

Ambit development is finished and while bugs may be fixed, I suspect that Suunto may stop selling them in the not too distant future. I have an A3P and two Spartans, I have not used the A3P in a long time. There are a few things I wish the Spartan had NOW but they are coming. I could not go back to the A3P screen.

I would take your time to purchase and purchase from a dealer that will allow you to return the product if you are not happy. Personally, I would not purchase the A3P. I know several, maybe many here would disagree with me. They know what they are talking about and I respect their opinions. You should consider all the opinions carefully. Mine is only one opinion.


----------



## pizzaslut

What about Spartan Trainer vs the Sport?


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> What about Spartan Trainer vs the Sport?


Depends on your budget. They are both very similar. I would argue the main difference is the lack of a compass in the Trainer. I do not know how that will affect Navigation. If it doesn't affect Navigation, I would be tempted with the Trainer. I have a Sport (the Copper Edition). The battery life on the Trainer is better. If you do NOT use best GPS fix you will not get realtime alititude data with either the Trainer or the Sport. For what I do (ultra and trail running) the Ultra is my top choice and I have one. My opinion is to buy the mineral glass model as well, I think the plastic watch is likely to scratch quite easily.

One other advantage of the sport is that the touch screen provides time of day and battery level with a double tap while in exercise. I like the touch screen but not sure it would be work the extra $.


----------



## pizzaslut

Based on what I've seen on amazon the Sport can be hard right around the same price(open box from amazon, which I've had great luck with many times) as the trainer(the standard not the model with glass and metal front). I kind of prefer the standard over the metal model personally. I really just go hiking once a week and in the ocean in the summer, while usually at the gym 3 times a week during the week. So I am not sure if I really need HR(maybe just nice to have though)? And I think I could live without the touch screen as I've never had a watch with one. Right now trying to decided between three models in the same price.


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> Based on what I've seen on amazon the Sport can be hard right around the same price(open box from amazon, which I've had great luck with many times) as the trainer(the standard not the model with glass and metal front). I kind of prefer the standard over the metal model personally. I really just go hiking once a week and in the ocean in the summer, while usually at the gym 3 times a week during the week. So I am not sure if I really need HR(maybe just nice to have though)? And I think I could live without the touch screen as I've never had a watch with one. Right now trying to decided between three models in the same price.


The OHR will be great to have and essential for the sleep tracking so I would go for that, it is very convenient and you will use it....tell you how hard you are hiking and swimming. So, I would go with the Trainer with what you said.


----------



## pizzaslut

Thank you. Out of curiosity is there any real advantage to the higher priced Ultra or Sport Wrist HR?


----------



## the5krunner

pizzaslut said:


> Thank you. Out of curiosity is there any real advantage to the higher priced Ultra or Sport Wrist HR?


battery


----------



## mcotignola

the5krunner said:


> battery


Thanks for the info the5krunner ... quick question: can you replace the batter on the trainer? Or, it is a stupid idea to even consider that?

I have a Ambit3 Peak ... love the watch and the battery life. But sure love the look, price and the wrist HR functionality of the Trainer 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Egika

No you cannot replace it. You can charge it.


----------



## pizzaslut

How much better is the battery life on the Sport models?


----------



## pizzaslut

Egika said:


> No you cannot replace it. You can charge it.


So in a few years when the battery doesn't hold charge as well, what does one do? Send it in to Suunto to have the battery replaced(for a cost of course) or does one have to get a new one?


----------



## Egika

pizzaslut said:


> How much better is the battery life on the Sport models?


How about you check the specs on Suunto's website? They have a nice comparison tool that allows you to read and evaluate all the specs yourself.


----------



## Egika

pizzaslut said:


> So in a few years when the battery doesn't hold charge as well, what does one do? Send it in to Suunto to have the battery replaced(for a cost of course) or does one have to get a new one?


That's one option. But so far my years old Ambits hold their charge pretty well. The charging and battery technology is pretty advanced these days.
Also in a watch there are no high temperatures nor high currents.


----------



## pizzaslut

Egika said:


> How about you check the specs on Suunto's website? They have a nice comparison tool that allows you to read and evaluate all the specs yourself.


I did but I'd rather hear what real world battery for the sport is from users. Because, I've had devices, say like a laptop, where Sony rated it at 6 hours, but when new I was getting 7 hours, an hour more than the rated. My phone gets less than manufactures quote. Short answer, I don't fully trust manufactures rating.


----------



## Egika

Now thing is that no one here has a Spartan Trainer yet. You won't get any real world data from the users here :-/


----------



## pizzaslut

I thought since DC and 5k was here I'd ask. Thank you for the reply.


----------



## Egika

Their units are pre production. Without the final firmware the battery may be different


----------



## pizzaslut

On another note I noticed REI has it for $10 less(online only it seems like). https://www.rei.com/product/117805/suunto-spartan-trainer-wrist-hr-gps-watch


----------



## user_none

pizzaslut said:


> So in a few years when the battery doesn't hold charge as well, what does one do? Send it in to Suunto to have the battery replaced(for a cost of course) or does one have to get a new one?


Yes, to either of those.


----------



## Ellenp

How does this compare to the similar priced Fenix 3(regular)? I was close to getting this but the guy at REI today(only had the Traverse and top line Core in stock) told me that writ HR isn't as need for gym work and hiking and his reasoning made sense as I've never really taken my HR even on the treadmill. So maybe I don't need it? I checked out also the Nixon Mission, but that was too bulky and the Polar M600, but it was strapless. The New Balance RunIQ I was told is great, but poor battery life and weird HR sensor(but I think the guy and best buy just wanted to up sell me here to the Polar which is $50 atm). Ugh any help? I am average wrist size. thanks


----------



## Egika

To answer this please describe what you want from a sports watch? What is your use case? Which data do you want/need? What's your training scheme?


----------



## Ellenp

Well I go to the gym 3 times a week, and swim in the ocean once a month, and hike every other Sunday and at least twice a week walk to bank at work(about .5 miles each way). I just want to be more fit and get more motivated. I also saw the Spartan Sport(regular and with the external HR) can be had for same price as this model. Like a few here I have that dilemma. So, i guess my choices are the Spartan Sport, Spartan Trainer, Polar M800, NB RunIQ(like that it's 5atm, which is higher than the Polar), and Fenix 3(regular). All can be had for $320 or less, pretty much new.


----------



## Ellenp

I'm indifferent to touchscreen so that's not a factor.


----------



## Egika

You want to be more fit and motivated. Now do you need heart rate measurement for this? Do you need GPS at all?
Maybe not. Maybe a Fitbit Flex 2 would be for you as it also tracks swimming well!?


----------



## SUPmission

They could have made it ANT+ / Bluetooth Smart compatible like the Garmin. 
I had to give up my ANT+ sensors when I moved to Spartan and get new ones specifically for this.


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> I did but I'd rather hear what real world battery for the sport is from users. Because, I've had devices, say like a laptop, where Sony rated it at 6 hours, but when new I was getting 7 hours, an hour more than the rated. My phone gets less than manufactures quote. Short answer, I don't fully trust manufactures rating.


Battery life depends on GPS fix rate, whether or not you allow the screen to sleep and whether or not you use optical HR or the belt. It will vary tremendously depending on these. Difficult to say but I doubt you will keep the watch long enough to see the battery performance decline. I have not observed this.


----------



## Ellenp

Egika said:


> You want to be more fit and motivated. Now do you need heart rate measurement for this? Do you need GPS at all?
> Maybe not. Maybe a Fitbit Flex 2 would be for you as it also tracks swimming well!?


I'm different to HR. I do want gps though for hiking. And my understanding is the Android Wear models, Fenix 3, and Spartan line are better at gym work than Fitbit.


----------



## pizzaslut

martowl said:


> Difficult to say but I doubt you will keep the watch long enough to see the battery performance decline. I have not observed this.


What makes you say that?


----------



## Egika

Ellenp said:


> I'm different to HR. I do want gps though for hiking. And my understanding is the Android Wear models, Fenix 3, and Spartan line are better at gym work than Fitbit.


Android wear is a different story. While those watches have apps and functions galore the battery barely lasts two days. Dedicated sport watches like Garmin or Suunto have a much longer battery life but focus on functions for sports.
To track your workouts in the gym heart rate is pretty essential. A Fenix 3 or 5 or the new Suunto Trainer should be good alrounders for you.


----------



## Ellenp

Fenix 3 HR at $400 is too much for me, as is the 5. The non HR 3 and the both the Spartan trainer and Sport are $300 or less as is the Polar M600($225 -open box amazon) and the RunIQ($205 or less). Someone also suggested the TomTOm explorer to me. Said it's a great device, with meh build quality(i.e not as good as the Suunto and Garmin, but better features for the price at $230. I think why I like the android wear is the idea of apps could solve the missing features. I really just to be able to last all day tracking me(gps off), and my 2-4 hour sunday hikes(gps on).


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Ellenp said:


> Fenix 3 HR at $400 is too much for me, as is the 5. The non HR 3 and the both the Spartan trainer and Sport are $300 or less as is the Polar M600($225 -open box amazon) and the RunIQ($205 or less). Someone also suggested the TomTOm explorer to me. Said it's a great device, with meh build quality(i.e not as good as the Suunto and Garmin, but better features for the price at $230. I think why I like the android wear is the idea of apps could solve the missing features. I really just to be able to last all day tracking me(gps off), and my 2-4 hour sunday hikes(gps on).


I have a review of a/the Casio with Android Wear coming up and while I like it a lot (it's become my daily watch and I loved it on recent travels), the available apps for doing sports all have issues that make me appreciate the Spartan all the more. The app I most enjoy for hiking, because it records the GPS track pretty well and can show me (guide me via) the route, for example, does not work with an external HR belt, so does not record my heart rate. The app I've used that can record HR from an external belt, in contrast, does not upload anywhere I can get the data over to Strava (which the other one does). And so on...


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> What makes you say that?


I have hundreds of hours on several Suunto watches over the years and never experienced a significant decline in battery. If you plan on keeping one watch for 5 years you might see this, given how fast the technology is progressing I doubt you will keep the watch you buy today for 5 years. I wouldn't.


----------



## Ellenp

So, last question, for a newbie, which is better the Spartan Sport(non HR), the Trainer or The Fenix 3(non HR)?


----------



## Philip Onayeti

martowl said:


> I have hundreds of hours on several Suunto watches over the years and never experienced a significant decline in battery. If you plan on keeping one watch for 5 years you might see this, given how fast the technology is progressing I doubt you will keep the watch you buy today for 5 years. I wouldn't.


4 1/2 years on the Ambit2 and it is still my go to watch for the mountains. Still has more useful functions than the current Spartan. Funny how fast Suunto technology is progressing. And as for the battery....can't give you an precise measurement but it no noticeable deterioration with my usage.


----------



## martowl

Philip Onayeti said:


> 4 1/2 years on the Ambit2 and it is still my go to watch for the mountains. Still has more useful functions than the current Spartan. Funny how fast Suunto technology is progressing. And as for the battery....can't give you an precise measurement but it no noticeable deterioration with my usage.


But you had/have a Spartan! I have a T6c and don't use it. I find the Spartan nearly as good as the A3P for the mountains and with the Outdoor update it will likely exceed it. For me, the screen is important, I can read it much better without glasses. The battery life for long runs is better using battery save features. I can get over 30h on a Good GPS fix and not have to charge. That gives me a good enough track I don't need to either hassle with a footpod or recharge. On the 5s A3P fix 30h would be a reach. I know it says 30h but in my experience I couldn't quite get there. I agree though, the durability of the Suunto watches is great. I would find it hard not to have the syncing functions on the smartphone for routes, planned workouts and syncing moves. I use that a lot and that is the reason why I moved up from my A2


----------



## Ellenp

Does the Trainer have this outdoor update of that the Spartan(is it for all models or just the ultra) will get? 

Which is easier to used based on the Spartan Sport or the Trainer(I guess the Abmit3 could be a substitute as it also lacks a touch screen).


----------



## martowl

Ellenp said:


> Does the Trainer have this outdoor update of that the Spartan(is it for all models or just the ultra) will get?
> 
> Which is easier to used based on the Spartan Sport or the Trainer(I guess the Abmit3 could be a substitute as it also lacks a touch screen).


The Trainer is not out yet so only beta testers could answer your question and they signed NDAs plus they likely do not have the release firmware. But my understanding is that all the Spartans have similar or nearly identical software. The ultra does not track HR every 10 min when not in exercise mode as it does not have OHR. The Sport/Trainer do not have a barometer and cannot track changes in Air Pressure and thus, cannot provide storm info and the altitude measurement on the Sport/Trainer require Best GPS mode. Since the October update is quite a ways off yet it is very difficult to make any predictions regarding how it will be implemented. The watches are designed for different needs, the Ultra is better at tracking altitude changes and has a longer battery life than the Sport/Trainer. The Trainer is the least expensive and does not have a touch screen or GLONASS capability. It depends on your needs.


----------



## Ellenp

Good to know, I noticed the trainer has a firmware update out now... I don't think I need altitude as I usually hike in sunny weather or days where I know it's not going to rain(don't have weather-sealing on my camera) usually in the Ventura California area. I am just a newb so I just want the friendliest item of my wallet, which is why I am stuck deciding between the three. Unfortunately the REI by me only had the Traverse and Abmit3 Vertical to try and the Fenix 5. So no 3 or Spartan line. And bestbuy only had the RunIQ, M600, and Mission(if it came in a more lady friend size it may have been a different story as that felt really tough vs the RunIQ, M600, and Ambit3, which I guess it should as it's for action sports and surfers). As for price I've noticed the Trainer, Sport(regular) and Fenix 3(regular) can all be had for $300 or less(jomashop has the Trainer with the sapphire screen for $300 right now).


----------



## pizzaslut

martowl said:


> I have hundreds of hours on several Suunto watches over the years and never experienced a significant decline in battery. If you plan on keeping one watch for 5 years you might see this, given how fast the technology is progressing I doubt you will keep the watch you buy today for 5 years. I wouldn't.


Yeah, but by the same token I prefer not spend $300 every 3 years on a watch like one may on the phone. That money could go towards gas to a new and different place to hike, swim or be outdoors. If it does a good job at tracking my hike and my activity now, what's to stop it from doing that in 4-5 years from now(if all the sensors are still working). If I can get a battery replaced for $40 at a watch shop that to me has way more value than another 300 on a new watch so to speak. It's not like a phone where it's dated, it's dated and it can't run certain apps or go on a certain webpage anymore cause it's not powerful enough


----------



## Ellenp

Hmm that is kind of an interesting point, my last watch was a quartz Citizen Eco watch that I had the battery replaced after 7 years of usage. It was easily done at a shop. I paid $200 for that watch and like a few to have the watch shop replace it. So, easily replaceable battery is a nice bonus. Do we know the battery size(mah) on Trainer and the Sport? Cause on Android wear watches we do.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Ellenp said:


> Hmm that is kind of an interesting point, my last watch was a quartz Citizen Eco watch that I had the battery replaced after 7 years of usage. It was easily done at a shop. I paid $200 for that watch and like a few to have the watch shop replace it. So, easily replaceable battery is a nice bonus. Do we know the battery size(mah) on Trainer and the Sport? Cause on Android wear watches we do.


I don't think anybody has even found out how the Spartan watches are put together. No visible screws...


----------



## Ellenp

Oh. How much does Suunto charge to change the battery?


----------



## Egika

Ellenp said:


> Oh. How much does Suunto charge to change the battery?


Better ask them, not the forum.

But anyway: changing the battery is a non issue. You don't change it and it also barely degrades. Expect 20% capacity loss in 10 years.


----------



## Ellenp

I haven't gotten a clear answer yet. Is Suunto touch screen menu and navigation better than their button nav that older models and the Spartan Trainer offer?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Not that I want anything more on my plate right now, but I (or someone) should go and check what charge their Ambit (1, original) now holds...


----------



## Egika

Ellenp said:


> I haven't gotten a clear answer yet. Is Suunto touch screen menu and navigation better than their button nav that older models and the Spartan Trainer offer?


Maybe because there is no clear answer.
"Better" is always subjective and depends on the use case.
Some like buttons, some touch, some a combination.
Nobody here can tell if it is better for you!


----------



## iridium7777

the battery on the sport w/ wrist HR is pathetic. if you have it turned on to 24hr HR recording and do about 30min activity a day, you'll be charging your watch every 2-3 days.

if you turn everything off, and only record HR during activities in best GPS mode you get about 12-15% drain an hour which actually puts you under 8 hours that Suunto is quoting.



pizzaslut said:


> I did but I'd rather hear what real world battery for the sport is from users. Because, I've had devices, say like a laptop, where Sony rated it at 6 hours, but when new I was getting 7 hours, an hour more than the rated. My phone gets less than manufactures quote. Short answer, I don't fully trust manufactures rating.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Ellenp said:


> I haven't gotten a clear answer yet. Is Suunto touch screen menu and navigation better than their button nav that older models and the Spartan Trainer offer?


As a touch screen goes it compares favourably if not better to others in reviews. I had significant issues in wet weather when the touch screen would activate itself and I would find myself in odd screens when I went to look at the time. Also when i went to use the touch scree it was unreliable so just used buttons (which of course why the buttons are still there).


----------



## pizzaslut

iridium7777 said:


> the battery on the sport w/ wrist HR is pathetic. if you have it turned on to 24hr HR recording and do about 30min activity a day, you'll be charging your watch every 2-3 days.
> 
> if you turn everything off, and only record HR during activities in best GPS mode you get about 12-15% drain an hour which actually puts you under 8 hours that Suunto is quoting.


2-3 days doesn't sound that bad to be honest. I take battery life would be similar on the Sport models with the external HR?


----------



## iridium7777

pizzaslut said:


> 2-3 days doesn't sound that bad to be honest. I take battery life would be similar on the Sport models with the external HR?


at 2-3 days (and 3 i mean really max), it's in the apple watch category... for a "daily" wear watch where you essentially have to charge it for 2 hours every 2 days is too much for me.

to speak about apple watch, i'm really curious to see what apple watch 3 looks like in a few weeks, i bet it's going to take a serious stab low hanging sport watches such as this suunto and some of garmin's offerings.


----------



## iridium7777

i found the same annoyance when i went swimming (not for exercise) in a lake with my watch. the screen was all over the place, lighting up, going through menus and whatever other crap. i can't believe there was no way to lock out the screen in non-sport mode specifically for water activities, well actually i can.



Philip Onayeti said:


> I had significant issues in wet weather when the touch screen would activate itself and I would find myself in odd screens when I went to look at the time. Also when i went to use the touch scree it was unreliable so just used buttons (which of course why the buttons are still there).


----------



## Ellenp

iridium7777 said:


> at 2-3 days (and 3 i mean really max), it's in the apple watch category... for a "daily" wear watch where you essentially have to charge it for 2 hours every 2 days is too much for me.
> 
> to speak about apple watch, i'm really curious to see what apple watch 3 looks like in a few weeks, i bet it's going to take a serious stab low hanging sport watches such as this suunto and some of garmin's offerings.


I thought the apple watch only did 2 days max with light-ish usage?


----------



## pizzaslut

iridium7777 said:


> at 2-3 days (and 3 i mean really max), it's in the apple watch category... for a "daily" wear watch where you essentially have to charge it for 2 hours every 2 days is too much for me.
> 
> to speak about apple watch, i'm really curious to see what apple watch 3 looks like in a few weeks, i bet it's going to take a serious stab low hanging sport watches such as this suunto and some of garmin's offerings.


I didn't think the Apple watch series 2 was that good in terms of battery life with HR constantly monitoring. How is the battery life with HR off or on the non-HR sport model? I take a chest HR would have the same battery as wrist?


----------



## Egika

iridium7777 said:


> i found the same annoyance when i went swimming (not for exercise) in a lake with my watch. the screen was all over the place, lighting up, going through menus and whatever other crap. i can't believe there was no way to lock out the screen in non-sport mode specifically for water activities, well actually i can.


And that is exactly why I disable the touch screen in the settings for example for kite surfing:


----------



## iridium7777

and that was exactly my point: yes, you can disable/lock the screen during an activity but you can't do so when you're _not_ in an activity.

go swimming while wearing your watch without putting into a sport mode and see what it does...



Egika said:


> And that is exactly why I disable the touch screen in the settings for example for kite surfing:


----------



## martowl

Ellenp said:


> I thought the apple watch only did 2 days max with light-ish usage?


My wife's AW will not go 2d without a charge, she often has it run out during ONE day so 2d on an Apple watch means you never use it....... I have a Spartan Copper Edition OHR and if I use it for 24/7 HR with do not disturb and do a 1.5-2h run the battery will only last 2d. However, if the HR monitoring is disabled or if you use a chest strap during exercise you will probably get more life out if it. I have not tried to maximize mine, I simply put it on the charger when I get up, shower, dress then coffee and it is 80-90%, which is good enough for another day and at least a 2h run. Doesn't bother me. My Ultra lasts much, much longer because the battery is bigger and it has no OHR. I suspect Suunto will refine the OHR so it uses less battery with firmware updates, this is their first attempt at OHR.


----------



## Egika

iridium7777 said:


> and that was exactly my point: yes, you can disable/lock the screen during an activity but you can't do so when you're _not_ in an activity.
> 
> go swimming while wearing your watch without putting into a sport mode and see what it does...


If I'm not in an activity, my SSU locks the screen itself after 1 min. The touch screen is then disabled until you press a button. So if the watch gets wet under normal conditions exactly nothing will happen.


----------



## dragon_unleashed

Hey guys, jeez what a hassle to register.. but I finally got it..

I registered because I have some questions.. I was eager to get the Spartan Trainer but I can get the Spartan Sport wrist HR for almost the same price, now my question is.. what would you guys recommend..

I run 3 times a week, I lift weights, walk , hike, ride my bike (to work), participate in trails, mudruns, and obstacle course runs.. and really like the navigation options (and breadtrail) for exploring New areas or get back when getting lost.

Question 2 , nobody talks about how long the watch needs to be charged when battery low, not in in the spartan sports or trainer reviews. How long does it need to be charged

Question 3

How well does the navigation work...
And the breadcrumb option..

I only see gps reviews of walked runs, but not about navigation..

Thanks guys, sorry to bother you with my questions


----------



## pizzaslut

Where is the Sport Wrist HR for almost same price? All I am seeing is the regular Sport going for the price or way less if one goes with the blue color(not a fan of the color but the price is really tempting).


----------



## pizzaslut

Does the trainer offer GPS based elevation like the sport?


----------



## paul1928

pizzaslut said:


> Does the trainer offer GPS based elevation like the sport?


Yes


----------



## MichelleWater

dragon_unleashed said:


> Hey guys, jeez what a hassle to register.. but I finally got it..
> 
> I registered because I have some questions.. I was eager to get the Spartan Trainer but I can get the Spartan Sport wrist HR for almost the same price, now my question is.. what would you guys recommend..
> 
> I run 3 times a week, I lift weights, walk , hike, ride my bike (to work), participate in trails, mudruns, and obstacle course runs.. and really like the navigation options (and breadtrail) for exploring New areas or get back when getting lost.
> 
> Question 2 , nobody talks about how long the watch needs to be charged when battery low, not in in the spartan sports or trainer reviews. How long does it need to be charged
> 
> Question 3
> 
> How well does the navigation work...
> And the breadcrumb option..
> 
> I only see gps reviews of walked runs, but not about navigation..
> 
> Thanks guys, sorry to bother you with my questions


Link please for an HR for the same price as the Sport?


----------



## pizzaslut

I think you mean trainer the HR is a sport model


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> Where is the Sport Wrist HR for almost same price? All I am seeing is the regular Sport going for the price or way less if one goes with the blue color(not a fan of the color but the price is really tempting).





MichelleWater said:


> Link please for an HR for the same price as the Sport?


Sorry for the Late response..

I'm from Europe, so i was sleeping 

Amazon ( .de) has the Sport wrist HR for 350 euros where as the SsT will cost 329, (the one with metal bezel, the cheap trainerone is 280)


----------



## pizzaslut

Ah, I see. Yeah I can get the Sport(with out the HR) in the states for as low as $245(white from amazon last I checked), and HR for $350, while the Trainer with the metal band is $329. I was thinking maybe it was closer to the regular Trainers price. I am seriously thinking about getting the white Sport at that price as it would save me cash over the Trainer some cash, which can be used for gas to a nice hiking locale. Hmmm.


----------



## pizzaslut

It won't let me edit, but the Ultra is also going for $350, same as the HR. I doubt this means a replacement product is coming out, but IFA Berlin does start this Friday.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

pizzaslut said:


> It won't let me edit, but the Ultra is also going for $350, same as the HR. I doubt this means a replacement product is coming out, but IFA Berlin does start this Friday.


Going by the exhibitor list, Suunto (Amer Sports, anything) won't be at the IFA


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> It won't let me edit, but the Ultra is also going for $350, same as the HR. I doubt this means a replacement product is coming out, but IFA Berlin does start this Friday.


Seriously ?, Wow that's a bargain.. here it goes for 100 euro more (thats about 120-140 dollars more ?) and even though it does have extended battery life and some extra meters and more expensive material, I like WHR . Even if it's not a 100 percent accurate.. if it where 350 euros here I wonder what I would choose... , but tbh this does kinda scare me... Suunto not dropping this or going bankrupt right ?


----------



## pizzaslut

That price is just for an open box on amazon. The base Ultra and Sport are the same material if I remember correctly. It's the base Spartan that is a bit different material wise.


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> That price is just for an open box on amazon. The base Ultra and Sport are the same material if I remember correctly. It's the base Spartan that is a bit different material wise.


Ah well, ordered the Sport WHR and good too since price went up again only 40 bucks but still..

The battery life should be sufficient for my lifestyle and I'm already making use of movescount/maps for making some routes.. love this...

Did I hear someone here about rumors ambit like apps coming to spartan serieus maybe ?

And what is the outdoor october firmware all about? Anybody know that ?


----------



## pizzaslut

I think the update would just bring it to feature parity of the Trainer. Like more daily activity tracking, bug fixes, and for the Sport WHR heart-rate sleep tracking. It also may have some gps fixes/improvements too as part of bugs fixes. 

I am right now trying to decide between the Sport(non-HR) and the Trainer as both are the same price(unless I go blue sport, which cost $205 right now on amazon open box, but not a fan of the color, ugh). Hmmm


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> I think the update would just bring it to feature parity of the Trainer. Like more daily activity tracking, bug fixes, and for the Sport WHR heart-rate sleep tracking. It also may have some gps fixes/improvements too as part of bugs fixes.
> 
> I am right now trying to decide between the Sport(non-HR) and the Trainer as both are the same price(unless I go blue sport, which cost $205 right now on amazon open box, but not a fan of the color, ugh). Hmmm


I saw different bands on amazon also, so you could change it from blue to something else not making it all too blue


----------



## pizzaslut

dragon_unleashed said:


> I saw different bands on amazon also, so you could change it from blue to something else not making it all too blue


Thought of that, but the body is still blue.


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> dragon_unleashed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw different bands on amazon also, so you could change it from blue to something else not making it all too blue
> 
> 
> 
> Thought of that, but the body is still blue.
Click to expand...

Yeah true.. might look reasonabl when you have a black and white mix.. but blue.. well than you habe to make a choice.. either accept blue or use another band , or pay more money... Wouldn't waite too long though, as I said, prices raised in two days over here


----------



## pizzaslut

Yeah, white on the other hand is $50 more also from amazon. Not sure why the stark difference in prices between colors.


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> Yeah, white on the other hand is $50 more also from amazon. Not sure why the stark difference in prices between colors.


They watch clicks and then adjust prices according to popularity....

Btw should we call this topic : pizzasluts&dragon_unleashedchat .. since we're the only one's here for days ??

Ahw well hope I enjoy the watch when in comes hopefully next week, hope it wasn't a stupid buy...


----------



## martowl

dragon_unleashed said:


> They watch clicks and then adjust prices according to popularity....
> 
> Btw should we call this topic : pizzasluts&dragon_unleashedchat .. since we're the only one's here for days ??
> 
> Ahw well hope I enjoy the watch when in comes hopefully next week, hope it wasn't a stupid buy...


Sorry, some of us (me) were out recording moves . I think you will enjoy the Sport, I use the touch screen extensively, not so much during exercise but to scroll notifications, to scroll to see planned workouts, etc. During exercise, a double tap on the touch screen shows battery left and time of day so you do not need to have a field for time of day! I use that a lot during long runs. Let me know if you have questions, I use my Copper Sport OHR for about everything I do during the week and then the Ultra on the weekends since most of my trail runs are longer than 8h.


----------



## pizzaslut

I take there is a open water mode, but is there a dive mode? I wasn't really swimming per-say but was doing a light underwater dive today and wondering if the Trainer or Sport had a dive mode.


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> I take there is a open water mode, but is there a dive mode? I wasn't really swimming per-say but was doing a light underwater dive today and wondering if the Trainer or Sport had a dive mode.


Not that I am aware of. however, there is no reason there could not be one. I think that part of the problem is how well sealed the unit is when pressing buttons. Pressing buttons while swimming is one thing but 5m underwater is another. Suunto makes excellent dive watches so I would hope that they know how to seal devices and may be a reason why they do not allow dive modes on their running/outdoor watches.


----------



## dragon_unleashed

martowl said:


> Sorry, some of us (me) were out recording moves . .


Hahaha touché.

Yeah can't wait, the baby trails and mudruns I do wont exceed the max 40 km .. for now..  so I'll use the watch probably for everything



martowl said:


> Not that I am aware of. however, there is no reason there could not be one. I think that part of the problem is how well sealed the unit is when pressing buttons. Pressing buttons while swimming is one thing but 5m underwater is another. Suunto makes excellent dive watches so I would hope that they know how to seal devices and may be a reason why they do not allow dive modes on their running/outdoor watches.


Well the Ultra and the Sport are 100m waterresistant according to the iso 6425 standards, which is the diving standard, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark

I dont know if you can choose diving through movescount and sync it with your watch ?


----------



## pizzaslut

martowl said:


> Not that I am aware of. however, there is no reason there could not be one. I think that part of the problem is how well sealed the unit is when pressing buttons. Pressing buttons while swimming is one thing but 5m underwater is another. Suunto makes excellent dive watches so I would hope that they know how to seal devices and may be a reason why they do not allow dive modes on their running/outdoor watches.


Good to know, I don't think I went deeper than 3 meters, and I know it is water resistant to 50m so I should be fine at 3-6m I usually go down to.



dragon_unleashed said:


> Hahaha touché.
> 
> Yeah can't wait, the baby trails and mudruns I do wont exceed the max 40 km .. for now..  so I'll use the watch probably for everything
> 
> Well the Ultra and the Sport are 100m waterresistant according to the iso 6425 standards, which is the diving standard, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark
> 
> I dont know if you can choose diving through movescount and sync it with your watch ?


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> Good to know, I don't think I went deeper than 3 meters, and I know it is water resistant to 50m so I should be fine at 3-6m I usually go down to.


I think , The Trainer is indeed "only" resistant 50mtr , but the Sport and Ultra 100mtr since the Iso 6425 is for waterresistance from 100mtr, I don't know where it puts the trainer in this situation,

ISO 6425 defines such watches as: A watch designed to withstand diving in water at depths of at least 100 m and possessing a system to control the time. Diving watches are tested in static or still water under 125% of the rated (water) pressure, thus a watch with a 200-metre rating will be water resistant if it is stationary and under 250 metres of static water. ISO 6425 testing of the water resistance or water-tightness and resistance at a water overpressure as it is officially defined is fundamentally different from non-dive watches, because every single watch has to be tested.

But then again, I had a waterresistant phone once.. with which you could swim... at least.According to promotion pics, turned out , the phone waterresistance measurements are only when a phone is in the water and not moving.. how the hell you do that XD

When you read the link I posted earlier, you can see how a 5 or 10 meters water resistant mark doesn't mean you can go 5 or 10 meters deep which is what I used to think when I was jounger ..in the good old days...

Still for the suunto you diving depths, should be no problem, at least that's what I think, but I don't have a slightest clue hahah

Probably recommend to rinse off the watch after swimming in salty water, cause it might corrosion (read that somewhere, better safe than sorry)


----------



## pizzaslut

I saw a good price on a Spartan WHR(if it really is one) and close to pulling it now that you have me thinking that 50atm isn't guaranteed? Suunto says the 50m according to ISO6425​


----------



## MichelleWater

Which the better value 270+tax for the Trainer, or $330+no tax for the Sport Wrist HR(it's the pink one but with a black band it be sweet)?


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> I saw a good price on a Spartan WHR(if it really is one) and close to pulling it now that you have me thinking that 50atm isn't guaranteed? Suunto says the 50m according to ISO6425​


Don't know buddy, you'd have to check them, all I know is the Spartan sports is 100m resistant iso

And the Spartan trainer is 50 m iso

All according to their own site..

How that correlates in real life is something you should ask people who actually dive etc.. the deepest I go is the baby bath in the local swimming pool..XD


----------



## dragon_unleashed

MichelleWater said:


> Which the better value 270+tax for the Trainer, or $330+no tax for the Sport Wrist HR(it's the pink one but with a black band it be sweet)?


That's totally up to you..

The sports has higher water resistance, a digital compas (not important imo), glonass (in addition to gps, but I heard it sucked) , and some better materials..

Then it also comes to which design you like and suits you better...

Now if the above all matter to you and you find the Spartan Sport better looking, you have to figure out if thats worth the few extra bucks...

All and all they all offer almost the same features


----------



## martowl

MichelleWater said:


> Which the better value 270+tax for the Trainer, or $330+no tax for the Sport Wrist HR(it's the pink one but with a black band it be sweet)?


I would purchase from a place you can return the unit. If you are female or have very small wrists the Trainer might fit better and be more comfortable, it is lighter. If you have large wrists, the Sport is 50mm diameter watch face, it is not a small watch. Either I think will be fine. I have an Ultra and that would be my first choice but I wanted to try out the OHR. I like it so I purchased a second Spartan. If you want my Copper Edition OHR I had it listed to sell and I would sell it. The Trainer has better battery life so I would buy that one instead. I am serious so let me know if you are interested.

But wanted to state that the choices will be different for different folks. I would use the Trainer/Sport only during the week. Neither has sufficient battery for my weekend runs or most of my races.


----------



## pizzaslut

Anyone know the battery size on the Trainer, Sport, and Ultra? 

Martowl, how long do you usually run on the weekends?


----------



## iridium7777

the "HR" update isn't scheduled until end of 2017, and considering that the watch actually only samples for 10 minutes out of the hour (as opposed to all other major competitors doing 1 sec HR sampling every minute of every hour), i'm not sure how much more they can optimize the battery unless the sampling rate is cut even more.

the best thing to hope for is that they'll be able to curtail some of the crazy peaks and dips the HR sensor exhibits.



martowl said:


> . I suspect Suunto will refine the OHR so it uses less battery with firmware updates, this is their first attempt at OHR.


----------



## pizzaslut

I am fine it sampling every 10 minutes, heck give me an option to do every 30 I'd be fine. What's not fine is the peaks I've seen mentioned here and on reviews.


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> Anyone know the battery size on the Trainer, Sport, and Ultra?
> 
> Martowl, how long do you usually run on the weekends?


Anywhere from 6-12h when I am training. In three weeks I have a race that I will hopefully finish in 28-30h.

Movescount


----------



## pizzaslut

I take the sport only does about 8h and the Trainer reviews say about 7-8h also. hmm


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> I take the sport only does about 8h and the Trainer reviews say about 7-8h also. hmm


The good fix will get you longer times as will an HR belt but....you will not get real time elevation data, only after synchronizing. Real time elevation data requires best fix.


----------



## pizzaslut

I am not really too interested in real time elevation data, estimate would be okay. And when hiking I am not sure I'd use HR the whole time, just only when stopping to rest or take pics


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> I am not really too interested in real time elevation data, estimate would be okay. And when hiking I am not sure I'd use HR the whole time, just only when stopping to rest or take pics


You will get no altitude readings unless you are on Best GPS fix, the altitude field will simply be blank. In the exercise you must specify whether or not to use HR. If you are recording a move you will not be able to turn HR reading on and off. In time mode you can get an HR reading for 10 min and once every 10 min, the HR is read if you have 24h activity turned on. So if I interpret what you want to do, record a move and get HR when you want it, that is not possible.


----------



## MichelleWater

Is the 320 trainer model worth the extra or is the material not much more durable?


----------



## user_none

MichelleWater said:


> Is the 320 trainer model worth the extra or is the material not much more durable?


Stainless bezel, mineral glass, and it's thinner. It'll be heavier.


----------



## pizzaslut

I take it's thinner due to the material on the glass used?


----------



## dragon_unleashed

pizzaslut said:


> I take it's thinner due to the material on the glass used?


Curious Pizzaslut, have you made up your mind yet and ordered a suunto ? If yes, which one did you choose.

Gerald also had some great how-to's on the Spartan, (handy, just to get to know the series even better)

Suunto Spartan Ultra Manual/How-To: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjk3J-i74cJs-6-mDger3mfWCPUJPbG8x


----------



## martowl

MichelleWater said:


> Is the 320 trainer model worth the extra or is the material not much more durable?


But to answer your question, it will be more durable. I would not personally go for a plastic watch face, the Vector had this and my original Vector got fairly scratched up. The mineral glass will be much harder to scratch and the steel bezel more durable. It is light no matter what.


----------



## pizzaslut

dragon_unleashed said:


> Curious Pizzaslut, have you made up your mind yet and ordered a suunto ? If yes, which one did you choose.
> 
> Gerald also had some great how-to's on the Spartan, (handy, just to get to know the series even better)
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra Manual/How-To: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjk3J-i74cJs-6-mDger3mfWCPUJPbG8x


At the impasse of saving a bit and going Sport, spending a bit more and going Sport HR, or going Trainer. If I was able to see them in person that would have been great. Only tried the Traverse in person(at REI) and it didn't feel big as I expected.


----------



## gagaspam

Guys just a question: does suunto have a worser ios integration than the garmin watches? I just saw the bad rating for suunto app on the app store and was confused.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


----------



## sb029111

gagaspam said:


> Guys just a question: does suunto have a worser ios integration than the garmin watches? I just saw the bad rating for suunto app on the app store and was confused.
> 
> Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


Actually, I have iOS, and a MAC, and the actual working of the app on my iPhone 6s+ is great, no problem. However, while the phone app on the Garmins gives a lot more information than the app on Movescount, the actual website, the one accessed from your computer is SO MUCH more complete. Personally, I use the phone app to upload the activities at the gym, or wherever, then look at the activity on the website. But, if your question is concerning problems uploading activities, etc, no, mine works just fine.


----------



## gagaspam

sb029111 said:


> Actually, I have iOS, and a MAC, and the actual working of the app on my iPhone 6s+ is great, no problem. However, while the phone app on the Garmins gives a lot more information than the app on Movescount, the actual website, the one accessed from your computer is SO MUCH more complete. Personally, I use the phone app to upload the activities at the gym, or wherever, then look at the activity on the website. But, if your question is concerning problems uploading activities, etc, no, mine works just fine.


Thank you. I thought more about detailed informations on my iphone app. Same as the "runtastic" app which i am actually using while i go for running. That i can check my average pace and compare it with my earlier runs. My wifes iwatch has so nice features for sports. But that watch-design... 🤢


----------



## Philip Onayeti

gagaspam said:


> Guys just a question: does suunto have a worser ios integration than the garmin watches? I just saw the bad rating for suunto app on the app store and was confused.
> 
> Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro


It depends. You often need to restart the app to get it to sync (or reactivate BT). Once it has reconnected it is fine for a while but then need to re-establish a connection.


----------



## pizzaslut

I noticed Garmin's new Vivovactive 3 has a rep counting feature, is that possible to add on the Spartan line?


----------



## iridium7777

considering it's been over a year and they haven't even added a countdown timer i wouldn't be too hopeful of them adding "real" features from competitors anytime during the lifetime of this actual product.



pizzaslut said:


> I noticed Garmin's new Vivovactive 3 has a rep counting feature, is that possible to add on the Spartan line?


----------



## pizzaslut

You think if we email them/message them en mass they may do something?


----------



## Egika

pizzaslut said:


> You think if we email them/message them en mass they may do something?


The mass of this Suunto subforum consists of 6 people :-D


----------



## pizzaslut

If we get our friends to do it too, it could be 10. lol


----------



## pizzaslut

Did Suunto remove the standard white and orange Trainer, because I don't see it on their site. When does the steel model come out?


----------



## pizzaslut

Pulled the trigger and got the base Spartan Trainer in black for 12% of retail. I'm told I should get in about a week as it ships from overseas as they get it straight from the factory.


----------



## MichelleWater

Made the right choice, and you can always switch the bezels out if you have the right tool to unscrew it.


----------



## cmbauer

pizzaslut said:


> Pulled the trigger and got the base Spartan Trainer in black for 12% of retail. I'm told I should get in about a week as it ships from overseas as they get it straight from the factory.


I would have sold you the one I returned. Lets us know how you like it


----------



## gagaspam

pizzaslut said:


> Pulled the trigger and got the base Spartan Trainer in black for 12% of retail. I'm told I should get in about a week as it ships from overseas as they get it straight from the factory.


In switzerland they want approx. 360$ 

Tapatalk Bro.


----------



## pizzaslut

No dice on the price.


----------



## NickSwe

My Trainer just died on me. Has this happend to anyone else? It was working ok and when I connected it with the cable to the computer Suuntolink started and then the watch screen went black and become totally unresponsive. Nothing happens no matter what I do. Tried to press different buttons, connect it to a power outlet and the computer but nothing helps.
Now its dead! Tried to google but couldn't find any info on how make a hard reset. Anyone knows how to reset the Trainer?


----------



## MichelleWater

Is there a reason why HDO sport is the only one to have the Coral model for sale? I don't even see it on Suunto's website that color. Only real picture I've found of it and it was on a WordPress blog.


----------



## Tony L

Anyone notice that there is no option to select Auto-Pause in Indoor Cycling mode in Movescount?


----------



## Egika

Tony L said:


> Anyone notice that there is no option to select Auto-Pause in Indoor Cycling mode in Movescount?


In indoor cycling there is no GPS signal the auto pause could use...


----------



## Tony L

Egika said:


> In indoor cycling there is no GPS signal the auto pause could use...


But I have a Speed/Cadence Sensor Pod that links to my Spartan WHR. Every time I stop to take a break, I have to remember to manually press Pause.

On my old Ambit 2, there is Auto-Pause, so I didn't have this problem.


----------



## pizzaslut

Anyone know of a good screen protector for the Trainer or do I have to cut my own?


----------



## MichelleWater

Is this real because I don't see the color on the suunto site but this place on Amazon is selling the coral.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01I05CF0O


----------



## sb029111

pizzaslut said:


> Anyone know of a good screen protector for the Trainer or do I have to cut my own?


The absolute best ones I've found for both my Fenix 5, and the Spartan Sport that I had is from Protection Films 24 out of Germany. They ship super fast, usually within a week or so, and their "airglass" protector is the absolute best "Glass" protection that is out there, bar none. At least for scratches on the screen, there's others that protect better for impact probably, but with a "plastic" screen, scratches are what you're going to get.
I'm not sure if they have one for the Trainer yet, but here's a link to their "spartan" line, might want to keep checking if they don't have it in yet. I think they may also be sold on Amazon, but I order direct from the company.

Screen Protectors free of shipping costs | protectionfilms24.com


----------



## sb029111

MichelleWater said:


> Is this real because I don't see the color on the suunto site but this place on Amazon is selling the coral.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01I05CF0O


I would be really leery about ordering from a 3rd party vendor that isn't stated as authorized Suunto Vendor, and especially in a color that even Suunto doesn't mention having. I'd say that offering is (to put it nicely) a "clone"... 
You might want to ask on Facebook in the Run4IQ Suunto Talks, there's a bunch of very well connected, knowledgeable folks there that can probably give you a definate answer.


----------



## pizzaslut

It's an odd one cause at one point either suunto or leaks showed an all white or coral color, but the site doesn't show it or else I'd have the all white one. So, either they are scamming you or some how gotten the white as an exclusive. Or as SB said it could be a clone and they are just using stock footage from Suunto?


----------



## Clockspeed

I noticed that my trainer has about 6-10 always on white pixels at the very bottom of the screen, below the "6". I do not know if this is a hardware or software issue. Has anybody noticed the same issue?


----------



## Egika

I think it is a non issue...


----------



## mcotignola

Clockspeed said:


> View attachment 12492581
> 
> 
> I noticed that my trainer has about 6-10 always on white pixels at the very bottom of the screen, below the "6". I do not know if this is a hardware or software issue. Has anybody noticed the same issue?


It would bother me too ... you should contact Suunto and maybe exchange it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MichelleWater

Is the bezel replaceable as it looks?


----------



## pizzaslut

My trainer was delayed as I ordered from a store that's located in Florida. So cloe.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

MichelleWater said:


> Is the bezel replaceable as it looks?


Not really. Suunto could do it, I think someone mentioned it works, I've also heard that it's all attached in such a way that you wouldn't get the watch back together (with a watertight seal, especially)


----------



## iridium7777

it's funny i'm returning my trainer to a store that's located in florida and i'm frustrated that the return/credit back is taking so long.


----------



## iridium7777

i'm reading the apple keynote and apple watch now has a barometer, starting at $329 and with multi sport enabled in watch os4 i'm convinced the low tier watches like these and garmin's offerings are going to be toast within a year or two.

as a matter of fact i'm getting the apple watch as soon as it's available.


----------



## Egika

How long does the battery last with GPS recording?


----------



## sb029111

Egika said:


> How long does the battery last with GPS recording?


Voice of experience here, I've had two series two Apple Watches, and while they're fun, and full of little things you can do, as a sports watch, they leave a bit to be desired. The heart rate monitoring isn't near what it would be with a chest strap, so if you're serious about the depth of your training, don't even think about it. The watch itself lasted me about a day and a half with an hour or hour and a half training each day. If I used the GPS for any time at all, say, an hour or more, it was "charge it when I get home", or it won't last the day.
That being said, if you're not a serious workout fanatic, if you just want something that's "cool", and will tell you when you need to breathe, or how much sleep you got (with an added app), or any of a myriad of other little things, then get the Apple Watch. They're fun, pretty, and instantly recognizable, so people will see your little polo rider, and your square Apple Watch, and think "Wow, he's cool!".. 
For me, they just didn't give the metrics that I wanted, so I sold both of them.


----------



## iridium7777

you talk about HR accuracy of the apple watch being deficient and it would require an external strap - i very well could say the same thing about the trainer/spartansport.

and, in my experience accross 1 trainer, and 4 spartansports, if you enable all the settings you'll be charging the watch in about 2 days, which is a little over what apple can do.

apple's gps performance is good for 6-8 hours, which again, is pretty much what -- in my experience -- i could get out of a trainer/spartansport.

and apple rolled out HR training modes, something that suunto hasn't been able to figure out, or are unwilling to do in over a year now.



sb029111 said:


> Voice of experience here, I've had two series two Apple Watches, and while they're fun, and full of little things you can do, as a sports watch, they leave a bit to be desired. The heart rate monitoring isn't near what it would be with a chest strap, so if you're serious about the depth of your training, don't even think about it. The watch itself lasted me about a day and a half with an hour or hour and a half training each day. If I used the GPS for any time at all, say, an hour or more, it was "charge it when I get home", or it won't last the day.
> That being said, if you're not a serious workout fanatic, if you just want something that's "cool", and will tell you when you need to breathe, or how much sleep you got (with an added app), or any of a myriad of other little things, then get the Apple Watch. They're fun, pretty, and instantly recognizable, so people will see your little polo rider, and your square Apple Watch, and think "Wow, he's cool!"..
> For me, they just didn't give the metrics that I wanted, so I sold both of them.


----------



## pizzaslut

This video might be of some help. 




How water resistant is the Apple Watch, cause I think you can only swim in fresh water with it. I did see the keynote and a part of me is thinking of just canceling my Trainer order and go with the Samsung Gear Sport(which like the Gear S3, but smaller and is wr to 5atm(S3 is just IP87, not even IPX8). The reasoning being the third party apps, and it's a smart watch so it has that cool factor.

Like i said if we message suunto en mass on twitter we could maybe get some features added?


----------



## Egika

There still is a difference between dedicated sport watches and smart watches.
If you like all the bells and whistles of an Apple or Android smart watch, that's totally fine.
My Spartan Ultra needs to be charged around once a week and records GPS for 10h. It is just specifically made for this only purpose.
The Ambit3 Peak has an even longer run time.
Of course any wrist HR suffers the same limitations. That's why using a chest belt still makes sense.
In the end it comes down to what you want your gadget to do for you.
The internet platform showing your metrics and planning your trainings is a big part of the whole deal.

Again: no need to justify anything. Buying an Apple or Samsung watch is totally fine if you like it and want it.

After all you can even run without any watch - it really works, you basically need a pair of legs only


----------



## pizzaslut

Samsung is tizen based(their in house OS) and it's marketed as a fitness watch that does smart watch stuff too. Kind of like the New Balance RunIQ(Android Wear), but newer and probably less of a battery hog(tizen suppose to be good at battery vs Android and Apple products). The only reason those other products tempt me is having full maps on there, which is great as I rather not be distracted by my phone when hiking. But, Suunto has advantage of lasting longer on a charge, price, and is more of a dedicated sports/outdoor watch. Will have to see how I like the Trainer in person when I get this week, but if not then maybe I'll take a peak at the Gear Sport or maybe even the Garmin VA3 as it's being very hyped on the fitness pages and youtube vlogs.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Well, that sounds like a good time to point to my (part 1 of my) Casio ProTrek Smart (Android Wear 2.0, GPS) review - and a part 2 is coming because it will be necessary to talk about apps and outdoors use separately. Because that is such a mixed bag.

I'm really enjoying the maps and everything getting into Google Maps timeline and all that. Notifications alone are working so nicely. But, when it comes to the sports/outdoors use, I've come to appreciate the SSU more than before...

On that note, re. flooding Suunto with messages to get more features: Remember there's an "outdoor-focused update" coming out soon? Not that Suunto were any good at communicating things like that (or why there are still no HR limits, as pointed out above), but things are moving.

And I'm also looking at a fenix5X right now ("looking" as in: working on a review for the blog/YouTube  )


----------



## Egika

pizzaslut said:


> Samsung is tizen based(their in house OS)


I thought they only work with Samsung phones...?


----------



## sb029111

Egika said:


> I thought they only work with Samsung phones...?


I believe they're like the Polar M600/Apple combination, the M600 is a true Android Wear, smartwatch, with all of the bells and whistles of Android Wear, (including v2.0), but with Polars training background. I owned one for a while, but didn't like the "charge every night" or more specifically, charge every morning when I was online. Otherwise, it uses Polar Flow, their answer to Garmin Connect/Movescount, which is IMHO an excellent tracking site, not as good as Movescount, but still gives plenty of metrics, including graphically showing recovery time, etc. The main reason I returned it was not for function, but more for form, once again, I didn't like to have to make sure it was charged before going out in the morning, and two, it's form factor I didn't like, (Round vs. square/rectangle).
Then I jumped into the "apple" basket, and the Android wear is very limited in what apps, and how they react with an iPhone/iPad. That was the actual killer.
If you are looking for a serious android wear sports watch, I think that combo is the only one out there, other than the Apple watch, but the Polar does everything without the additional apps, the Apple watch I had required an app to track sleep, an app to give decent heart rate analysis, an app for "mindfulness", (other than the "breathe" reminder every 6 hours, or so), so I say again, if you're into status symbols, then by all means go for the Apple watch, but if you really want metrics you can work with, look at real sports watches. (And I'm into Apple all the way, MacBook Pro, Apple TV, iPhone, iPad, and STILL don't recommend the AW for serious training).


----------



## pizzaslut

It's a little better than that now. It's more platform agnostic than the original tizen based models(which were packed with useless watch features like a camera), which only worked on some Samsung devices.


----------



## pizzaslut

I spoke to Suunto and they told me the Coral color is a limited edition color, that was released a while ago(which means that they must have had plans to bring it out earlier than the end of August). However, the all white color despite having a proper SKU on Amazon isn't a legit product from what they can tell me.


----------



## sb029111

pizzaslut said:


> I spoke to Suunto and they told me the Coral color is a limited edition color, that was released a while ago(which means that they must have had plans to bring it out earlier than the end of August). However, the all white color despite having a proper SKU on Amazon isn't a legit product from what they can tell me.


Having sold stuff on Amazon, I know you can buy a block of SKU's, and assign your own to any item, and it appears that the barcode is legit. I would go by what Suunto says, rather than the fact that there's a legit barcode/sku on Amazon..  Just sayin'


----------



## pizzaslut

I called one of the stores that carries the white one. I'm unfortunately on the other side of the state, but the delightful sales persons said they would email me the picture of the box for the all white Trainer model she has in store. So, I'll have to wait and see if I get the email or not tomorrow. I doubt they would be lying as the store as good reviews on google and yelp. But, I'd like to believe for now that the all-white does exist(and according to amazon the new model is the gold and white). I am really thinking about canceling the order for the black paying a few bucks more for the white, but I ask for a second opinion and the person I ask said the white will get too dirty and messy. I know that true for some items, but does that also apply to white Suunto Spartan models?


----------



## pizzaslut

So the all white is real. The place sent me an image of it, they said they have like 3 in white. It maybe a limited edition model? I want to order it, but I am not sure if white will get too dirty and not look as nice as black in the long run.







https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwkJrEWc4FpQRUhTX2Q2Yl9yd3owaXl0WnBGTGhxSTMtSXFr/view?usp=sharing


----------



## pizzaslut

Love the soft band on the Suunto Spartan line, but the size was still a tad large for me in person. Canceled the order, and went with the Garmin Vivoactive 3 that came out this week. REI only had one Spartan Trainer, no VA3, BB had no Suunto products and only one VA3.


----------



## pizzaslut

Update. After two days with the VA3 I am kind of thinking of returning it for the Trainer. While I really like the look and size of the Vivoactive 3, and the simplicity of a single button+touch screen; the GPS isn't doing it for me. It's so far in my two days been inaccurate(said I cut through a building and then crossed the street, when I didn't), or plain just not connecting. I know the Ultra and Sport were getting more accurate results vs the Fenix 3 and 5 so maybe I will get a more accurate result with the trainer vs the VA3. The only other option would be either a TomTom, which I am not a fan of the look, or Samsung Galaxy Sport, but not a fan of the battery life(it's a smartwatch first after all).


----------



## cmbauer

pizzaslut said:


> Update. After two days with the VA3 I am kind of thinking of returning it for the Trainer. While I really like the look and size of the Vivoactive 3, and the simplicity of a single button+touch screen; the GPS isn't doing it for me. It's so far in my two days been inaccurate(said I cut through a building and then crossed the street, when I didn't), or plain just not connecting. I know the Ultra and Sport were getting more accurate results vs the Fenix 3 and 5 so maybe I will get a more accurate result with the trainer vs the VA3. The only other option would be either a TomTom, which I am not a fan of the look, or Samsung Galaxy Sport, but not a fan of the battery life(it's a smartwatch first after all).


I have had my VA3 Since Saturday and I could not be more happy. With the Spartan the screen was too small for my eyes and I was laying in bed one day and could watch the trainer add steps. that was the final straw for me. I am still considering the Sport WHR though. Just love the looks of it.


----------



## sb029111

cmbauer said:


> I have had my VA3 Since Saturday and I could not be more happy. With the Spartan the screen was too small for my eyes and I was laying in bed one day and could watch the trainer add steps. that was the final straw for me. I am still considering the Sport WHR though. Just love the looks of it.


Gotta jump in here with a little info, I've owned two SSWHRs, and returned both of them for the same reason. If I had 24 hour HR monitoring turned on, notifications, and perhaps two activities lasting a total of a couple of hours a day, I could get 2 days battery at best, but if I used the GPS, it was a single day to charge. On another note, I also have an SSU, and a Fenix 5, and for the GPS, if I'm in decent conditions where the GPS actually has a chance to operate the way it should, (ie. no tall buildings for the signal to bounce off, fairly clear skies, and not a complete tree cover), I see no difference between my SSU and my Fenix 5. I believe most of the "problems" with the GPS of both of these watches lies with unrealistic expectations. The GPS model only states that under the best of conditions, the accuracy is only within about 15 feet. That's enough to move you up to 30 feet off of a trail, or line that you are on. Although it IS enough to tell you where you've been, but if you're walking in the city, among tall buildings, or along a stone/brick wall, you're going to get bounce of the signal and it's simply gonna freak.
My advice? Pick one, (I haven't, I've had virtually every activity/gps/smart watch out there), and stick with it, learn it's capibilities, learn it's limitations, and live with it. Your wallet will thank you, and last but certainly not least, there IS NO PERFECT watch or device out there. Some do some things better than others, but IMHO they're all essentially the same.
I've owned:
Suunto Ambit 2
Suunto Ambit 3
Suunto Spartan Ultra
Suunto Spartan Sport WHR
Polar M600
Polar M400
Polar V800
Garmin FR 935
Garmin Fenix 3
Garmin Fenix 3 HR
Garmin Fenix 5
Garmin Fenix 5X
And several others I can't remember.


----------



## RandM

Despite recent setbacks, I have been running nonstop since 1978. If you wanted to know your distance you would drive it off in a car and if you wanted accuracy you would run on a track. Yes, the accuracy of your wrist instrument is truly a first world problem. However, it is now considered standard required equipment, kind of like an automatic transmission. The degree of accuracy only bothered me with the Spartan Ultra that had all types of erratic measurements. Take it from someone who will never run distance again, the joy is in the endeavor.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

RandM said:


> it is now considered standard required equipment, kind of like an automatic transmission.


European here. Shaking his head. (At the Europeans  ) Manual transmission is still standard here... (Yeah, I know, OT, sorry)


----------



## RandM

I was just highlighting how provincial and ethnocentric I am.


----------



## pizzaslut

cmbauer said:


> I have had my VA3 Since Saturday and I could not be more happy. With the Spartan the screen was too small for my eyes and I was laying in bed one day and could watch the trainer add steps. that was the final straw for me. I am still considering the Sport WHR though. Just love the looks of it.


Which did you find better in terms of GPS accuracy, hiking, battery life, and general fitness?


----------



## iridium7777

so i received my AW3 in the mail but didn't get a chance to use it until yesterday. at about 9AM i took it out of the box with about 87% battery, set it up, went for a run and 2 very quick swimming activities all totaling about 40 mins of GPS time.

in addition i would futz around with the watch all day, get notifications, make calls to my wife for a few minutes while at the lake, etc. and in the end when i was getting ready for bed at 9:45PM it had 48% battery left.

the tracks it recorded are actually very good, i've imported them into movescount and you can view the run here:
iridium7777's 0:33 h Running Move

and the "swim" here:
iridium7777's 0:04 h Openwater swimming Move

for the run, it seems the following data is available from the AW3 that i was very pleasantly surprised:
1) cadence
2) altitude*
3) hr recovery, the watch samples and compares your HR 1 and 2 minutes after your run is completed to note the drop.

*the activity itself was recorded with native apple workout app, not some 3rd party app. it's really weird how spiky the altitude is shown in suunto's app, native apple workout app does not show activity, but when i also imported the run into Strava it was much more flat and you can see that the elevation dropped and stayed flat there.

the lap split times also do not seem to have made it over to movescount but they are in strava.

all in all, i'm very pleasantly surprised with AW3 as compared to the trainer and definitely to the spartan wrh (especially if you purchase it close to the $500 retail price, which i think is insane).

the one item that i don't think there's a viable solution yet is route planning. while there are 3rd party route planning apps for the AW none of them seem to integrate into an actual activity, i would say if you're trail running into unknown something like suunto or garmin would be a lot more appropriate, otherwise i really think this is the end for mid-tear competition and considering how much technology apple is cramming into this watch year over year i'd say in 2-3 years there will be no market left for even the higher end training devices.


----------



## pizzaslut

You have some valid points, but the AW AW, Android wear, and Tizen OS(what the Samsung Gear line uses) can't match up to Suunto or Garmin in some respects. A key one as you said is the fact you can't do breadcrumbing with these smartwatches. I am testing out a Gear S3 Frontier and there is no app for breadcrumbs native or 3rd party, and gps is also messy(showed walking me between streets). It got my location faster than the VivoActive 3, but it tracking was even more of a miss than the VA3 in my initial testing. I think with the Apple Watch and Android wear you may have a basic 3rd part app to do that, but natively it doesn't have that feature and I am not sure how good the 3rd party solution is. I don't think there is 3rd party app for Tizen to do this(yet to see one). 

The other issue is battery life, these devices do some much, from having wif, to nfc, to other things in there that battery life won't match the Fenix, VA3, Spartan, or Traverse lines. Reviews for the Gear S3 Frontier model say 2 day and it sounds believable as the OS is suppose to be more efficient compared to WatchOS and Android Wear, but I think I will only get 1 day out it. I have wifi, nfc, off and it's not connected to my phone. Never had that problem when testing the VA3. On the plus side, stair climbing is more accurate as, is push up counting vs the VA3.

How do you find the HR, and other sensors in terms of accuracy? 

If I like this and can find a way to track trails then I will swap it out for the smaller Sport model, which is also waterproof. If not I may just get the Suunto Spartan Trainer, which is the same size as the S3 Frontier.


----------



## martowl

iridium7777 said:


> so i received my AW3 in the mail but didn't get a chance to use it until yesterday. at about 9AM i took it out of the box with about 87% battery, set it up, went for a run and 2 very quick swimming activities all totaling about 40 mins of GPS time.
> 
> in addition i would futz around with the watch all day, get notifications, make calls to my wife for a few minutes while at the lake, etc. and in the end when i was getting ready for bed at 9:45PM it had 48% battery left.
> 
> the tracks it recorded are actually very good, i've imported them into movescount and you can view the run here:
> iridium7777's 0:33 h Running Move


How did you import into MC? My understanding is that exporting from the Apple SW is challenging. Curious.


----------



## iridium7777

martowl said:


> How did you import into MC? My understanding is that exporting from the Apple SW is challenging. Curious.


for iOS, there's an app called "run gap", you do have to pay 1.99$ every 3 month to get the export feature, but that allows you to import/export across some 20-30 platforms, including from apple watch (health) into movescount. from movescount it went automatically into strava. i also exported it to garmin connect, as i'm keeping all my activities synced accross all platforms.

the whole process is extremely easy, rungap sucks-in data from whatever accounts you tell it to and then you press "share" and select what account you want it to go to, takes about 20 seconds total for both steps.

i believe there is a free app for the android platform, but i don't have an android so really can't comment on that.


----------



## martowl

iridium7777 said:


> for iOS, there's an app called "run gap", you do have to pay 1.99$ every 3 month to get the export feature, but that allows you to import/export across some 20-30 platforms, including from apple watch (health) into movescount. from movescount it went automatically into strava. i also exported it to garmin connect, as i'm keeping all my activities synced accross all platforms.
> 
> the whole process is extremely easy, rungap sucks-in data from whatever accounts you tell it to and then you press "share" and select what account you want it to go to, takes about 20 seconds total for both steps.
> 
> i believe there is a free app for the android platform, but i don't have an android so really can't comment on that.


I have RunGap and thought that was how you did it, I did not know that it would export from Health so well.....nice.


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## RandM

Iridium7777, thanks for enlightening me about a useful app.


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## pizzaslut

Is this accurate?


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## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> Is this accurate?


Are you surprised? It uses wrist cadence and step counters are notoriously inaccurate. For me, I would turn off this feature if I could. It is useless for me.


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## pizzaslut

What does garmin use, because I am told that requires at least 8 or so steps before it starts counting it.


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## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> What does garmin use, because I am told that requires at least 8 or so steps before it starts counting it.


You missed my point. It doesn't matter. The number of steps
i walk has no influence on exercise and is not a good measure of exercise. And I don't care how many steps I take. Suunto is simply unfortunately bowing to market pressure.


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## pizzaslut

New colors coming, or maybe it's like the white and was kind of announced but had a limited release? https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5057-541/Spartan-Trainer-Wrist-HR-Steel


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## pizzaslut

Right now I am testing out the standard black Spartan Trainer along with the Gear S3(which will go back). I really like how the Spartan feels on my hand(not sure if the steel would feel the same as it's heavier but a little thinner). In my quick testing I really like how fast the GPS was able to gather reception, faster than the vivoactive 3 I was testing out, and maybe a hair faster than the Gear S3. I also like the breadcrumbs(less useful for a walk to the post office but will be good for hiking), poi, and trackback modes. Plus, battery life seems to be very good, even when compared to the VA3. 

As for the initial downsides, the display is okay(mines has some light bleed at the top left) and I really wish it was bright or at the very least used a whiter black-light. Maybe the replacement model will hopefully move to a color e-ink display or OLED back-lighting(for cleaner black). The VA3 had a brighter display when back-lit(but I think when back light was off the Trainer is brighter), but neither are as good as the Gear S3's OLED display. The Movescount mobile app isn't that good, but at least it's not a battery hog like the Gear Health Android app. They can maybe take a page from Garmin when making a mobile app. While I like the size of the device, I think the bezel/watch could have been smaller or the display could have been a little bigger(there is wasted space that the limited edition steal model looks to be covering up with numbers, which make it looks nicer imho). 

Not a negative, but I'd like to see an improved or added. The way the watch counts steps isn't that good(again look at how Garmin or even Samsung & Apple do it to get a more accurate number and less false steps). I'd also like to see how many steps I climbed as there are times I do step climbing, as there are some popular spot outdoors for stair climbing, even using the fitbit method seeing as the Trainer doesn't have an altimeter would work too. I do know if it would be too much to ask, but a trainer model with compass, altimeter(no need for baro), and updated display in the same size would be the perfect device for me.


Update: Tried the Spartan Trainer and the gym and it was really comfortable. In some ways more comfortable than the VA3 and Gear S3. That said I feel like the VA3 is better at the gym, but the Trainer is better for hiking(despite the lack of a altimeter). Kind of sounds like the Fenix 5s or even 5 would be more right for me as it blends both devices(more so once it gets the rep and stress HR update) into one device, but the price is a barrier. I returned the Gear S3 today as I really loved the display, OS, and navigation dial, but HR/GPS accuracy and lack of breadcrumbs was a big no for me. I really like the Trainer, but a the gym its a but underwhelming, and I only hike once a week, but go to the gym 2-3 times a week and walk at least once a week 1.5miles for work. Ugh why do these companies make it hard. Garmin just add breadcrumbs on the VA3; Suunto just add more metrics and options for the gym and stair counter; Samsung just improve accuracy and add breadcrumb navigation; & Apple just give us a slighly bigger model with bigger battery and support for non-Apple phones(even it's just for syncing fitness metrics).


----------



## iridium7777

i know it's a lot more than 279/300$, but you should really check out the Garmin 935, it is $100 less than the Fenix models and i honestly think it's the best watch out there, by far.

it has all of the features of fenix 5 and wears, in my opinion, better than the trainer, which again, in my opinion, is the best wearing suunto watch out there.



pizzaslut said:


> . Kind of sounds like the Fenix 5s or even 5 would be more right for me as it blends both devices(more so once it gets the rep and stress HR update) into one device, but the price is a barrier.


----------



## pizzaslut

935 is unfortunately a tad out of my budget, even open box. The Trainer is really comfortable, that feature alone is worth it. I wonder if the steels extra weight changes anything about its on hand feel.


----------



## WatchFreak_71

Just received my Trainer (steel model). As an Ambit 3 Sport owner, I am not very comfortable with the menu structure / UI logic, Ambit seems to be more logical to use for me. Or maybe there is just some learning curve here... 

Some observations after about 30 minutes of browsing the menus and experimenting with MovesCount:

- There seems to be no button lock in watch mode, only in exercise. Ambit 3 has button lock also in watch mode. Having button lock in watch mode would prevent some accidental button presses.
- The menu items can't be browsed in circular fashion; once you reach the last item in menu, you have to reverse to enter the first one. In Ambit, the menus are circle type; from last menu item you could enter first one just by one down button press, and vise versa. 
- Also, the configuration of exercise displays in MovesCount seems to be complex; it looks like I am limited to number of displays, can't add my own. Or am I missing something here?
- Why have they added new application (Suuntolink) for syncing between Trainer and MovesCount? Why can't the old Moveslink2 app handle all the models? First, I was confused why Moveslink didn't recognize my Trainer, until I clicked the help, and found out that new application has to be installed. And with this new app Suuntolink, I needed to enter my Movescount login info again, which is extra work and annoying.
- Not possible to adjust display contrast. In low light situations, numbers in Ambit3 display can be seen much more easily without activating the light

I wonder why Suunto degrades their UI with new models and makes things more complex...

Anyway, the steel model feels and looks very good in my wrist. Very comfortable and 'premium' looking. I like it's looks more than of my Ambit 3 Sport's. Maybe I get used to some of these UI shortcomings in the long run...


----------



## pjc3

WatchFreak_71 said:


> Just received my Trainer (steel model). As an Ambit 3 Sport owner, I am not very comfortable with the menu structure / UI logic, Ambit seems to be more logical to use for me. Or maybe there is just some learning curve here...
> 
> Some observations after about 30 minutes of browsing the menus and experimenting with MovesCount:
> 
> - There seems to be no button lock in watch mode, only in exercise. Ambit 3 has button lock also in watch mode. Having button lock in watch mode would prevent some accidental button presses.
> - The menu items can't be browsed in circular fashion; once you reach the last item in menu, you have to reverse to enter the first one. In Ambit, the menus where circle type; from last menu item you could enter first one just by one down button press, and vise versa.
> - Also, the configuration of exercise displays in MovesCount seems to be complex; it looks like I am limited to number of displays, can't add my own. Or am I missing something here?
> - Why have they added new application (Suuntolink) for syncing between Trainer and MovesCount? Why can't the old Moveslink2 app handle all the models? First, I was confused why Moveslink didn't recognize my Trainer, until I clicked the help, and found out that new application has to be installed. And with this new app Suuntolink, I needed to enter my Movescount login info again, which is extra work and annoying.
> 
> I wonder why Suunto degrades their UI with new models and makes things more complex...
> 
> Anyway, the steel model feels and looks very good in my wrist. Very comfortable and 'premium' looking. I like it's looks more than of my Ambit 3 Sport's. Maybe I get used to some of these UI shortcomings in the long run...


And of course the answer is "yes", you do get used to the new way of things. Is it better? Well always open to personal opinion but to me the little things are missing which does make the whole end user experience slightly diminished compared with Ambit line.

But give it time and things will become 2nd nature and little work arounds will become evident.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WatchFreak_71

One more shortcoming compared to Ambit3:
- Not possible to adjust display contrast. In low light situations, numbers in Ambit3 display can be seen much more easily without activating the light


----------



## RandM

WatchFreak_71 said:


> Just received my Trainer (steel model). As an Ambit 3 Sport owner, I am not very comfortable with the menu structure / UI logic, Ambit seems to be more logical to use for me. Or maybe there is just some learning curve here...
> 
> Some observations after about 30 minutes of browsing the menus and experimenting with MovesCount:
> 
> - There seems to be no button lock in watch mode, only in exercise. Ambit 3 has button lock also in watch mode. Having button lock in watch mode would prevent some accidental button presses.
> - The menu items can't be browsed in circular fashion; once you reach the last item in menu, you have to reverse to enter the first one. In Ambit, the menus are circle type; from last menu item you could enter first one just by one down button press, and vise versa.
> - Also, the configuration of exercise displays in MovesCount seems to be complex; it looks like I am limited to number of displays, can't add my own. Or am I missing something here?
> - Why have they added new application (Suuntolink) for syncing between Trainer and MovesCount? Why can't the old Moveslink2 app handle all the models? First, I was confused why Moveslink didn't recognize my Trainer, until I clicked the help, and found out that new application has to be installed. And with this new app Suuntolink, I needed to enter my Movescount login info again, which is extra work and annoying.
> - Not possible to adjust display contrast. In low light situations, numbers in Ambit3 display can be seen much more easily without activating the light
> 
> I wonder why Suunto degrades their UI with new models and makes things more complex...
> 
> Anyway, the steel model feels and looks very good in my wrist. Very comfortable and 'premium' looking. I like it's looks more than of my Ambit 3 Sport's. Maybe I get used to some of these UI shortcomings in the long run...


Operating the watch is more like a Spartan Ultra then an Ambit. When I switched to a Spartan Ultra from an Ambit 3 Peak, it was difficult because they were so dissimilar.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RandM

RandM said:


> Operating the watch is more like a Spartan Ultra then an Ambit. When I switched to a Spartan Ultra from an Ambit 3 Peak, it was difficult because they were so dissimilar.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The low light negative screen is not optimal. The basic faces with white or yellow trim are most visible, particularly with sunglasses. I am sure you have figured out that if the screen goes dark you just flick your wrist.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pizzaslut

I have to say the battery on this is fairly good imho. The way it's going I am getting close to 4 days, using gps for at least 45mintues a day. I may return this for the Steel model as it's a little thinner than the regular model, while offering a better material. 1mm less in thickness may just make a difference when wearing tight sleeves. I take there is no difference in clarity when viewing the display, between the different materials used in the steel vs the regular?


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## WatchFreak_71

RandM said:


> I am sure you have figured out that if the screen goes dark you just flick your wrist.


Yes, I noticed that. But the display could be a bit brighter, in low light situations it is not so easy to see the numbers, without activating the backlight. Ambit 3 Sport display is much brighter, and the contrast can be adjusted.


----------



## martowl

WatchFreak_71 said:


> One more shortcoming compared to Ambit3:
> - Not possible to adjust display contrast. In low light situations, numbers in Ambit3 display can be seen much more easily without activating the light


Switch to the light as opposed to dark display...it is very easy to see but the colors do not show up as well.


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## RandM

martowl said:


> Switch to the light as opposed to dark display...it is very easy to see but the colors do not show up as well.


You cannot change the face to positive unless someone knows something I don't. Besides the universe of things I don't know.


----------



## WatchFreak_71

Today I had my first exercises with the new Trainer. Some cycling and indoor tennis. In MovesCount sport modes settings, I had selected "Use heart rate", which means: "When selected, if a chest heart rate sensor is paired and available, the watch uses that sensor. Otherwise, the watch uses the optical heart rate sensor.". I successfully paired Bluetooth sensor just before starting the exercise, but Trainer still used the wrist HR; the sensor leds were blinking and HR was quite inaccurate. 

Has anyone experienced similar problems?


----------



## martowl

RandM said:


> You cannot change the face to positive unless someone knows something I don't. Besides the universe of things I don't know.


Easy to change on the web or under Options/Theme/Light when in exercise mode.


----------



## martowl

WatchFreak_71 said:


> Today I had my first exercises with the new Trainer. Some cycling and indoor tennis. In MovesCount sport modes settings, I had selected "Use heart rate", which means: "When selected, if a chest heart rate sensor is paired and available, the watch uses that sensor. Otherwise, the watch uses the optical heart rate sensor.". I successfully paired Bluetooth sensor just before starting the exercise, but Trainer still used the wrist HR; the sensor leds were blinking and HR was quite inaccurate.
> 
> Has anyone experienced similar problems?


Make sure it is paired under paired devices. Mine works well. I use this feature in the gym 3-5 times per week.


----------



## WatchFreak_71

martowl said:


> Easy to change on the web or under Options/Light when in exercise mode.


Unfortunately, that applies only to Exercise mode. My complaints where mainly about the poor visibility of watch face, since I want to use Trainer as my everyday watch. In Ambit 3, display inversion affects everything, not just exercise mode.


----------



## WatchFreak_71

martowl said:


> Make sure it is paired under paired devices. Mine works well. I use this feature in the gym 3-5 times per week.


It is there, but watch still uses optical HR.


----------



## Birchleaves

WatchFreak_71 said:


> - Also, the configuration of exercise displays in MovesCount seems to be complex; it looks like I am limited to number of displays, can't add my own. Or am I missing something here?


I am also coming from Ambit 3. I think Trainer is much easier to use actually. I remember really trying to understand Movescount and the watch menues. Now I learned most things in a day, even though some things are reached from other buttons (like back and backlight). You can do more configurations in Trainer than Ambit I'd say. Let's say you want to "configure" Mountainbiking like I did yesterday. On Movescount click Watches, now go to Sport modes/Mountainbiking and click "create new mountainbiking sport mode". Add up to four displays (yes, there seems to be a limit there, but on the other hand one display can show up to seven fields) then name your new mode anything you like. Clicking the icon that looks like "reload" lets you choose the layout of the display. The pre-created modes you can hide from shortlist, or just name the new one something else, like in my case "Trail".


----------



## martowl

WatchFreak_71 said:


> It is there, but watch still uses optical HR.


Delete it, re-pair and try again. Even though it may try to use the oHR, start an exercise, go away from the watch and come back after a few minutes. Stop the exercise and allow it to sync. It has been working well for me and not starting the oHR up. Let me know how it works out.


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## martowl

WatchFreak_71 said:


> Unfortunately, that applies only to Exercise mode. My complaints where mainly about the poor visibility of watch face, since I want to use Trainer as my everyday watch. In Ambit 3, display inversion affects everything, not just exercise mode.


Sorry, I was not clear, but there is another option, under Settings/Backlight/Standby turn it to on. I leaves a low level backlight on that does not affect battery life much and leaves the watch readable at all times...for me anyway. If you select Do Not Disturb it will blank out the screen and turn the low level backlight off. Let me know if this works for you.


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## pizzaslut

I don't see a standby option, just see an automatic and toggle. I'm on the latest firmware. Do not disturb does have the low level backlight for me though.


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## cerzet

On the watch Settings/General/Backlight, and there you have Mode, Standby switch and Brightness%. At least on my Sport.


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## pizzaslut

I don't see it on my Trainer. Maybe that's only a feature on the Sport or next firmware update will bring those settings features.


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## WatchFreak_71

martowl said:


> Delete it, re-pair and try again. Even though it may try to use the oHR, start an exercise, go away from the watch and come back after a few minutes. Stop the exercise and allow it to sync. It has been working well for me and not starting the oHR up. Let me know how it works out.


I already tried the delete & re-pair workaround for about 10 times, still doesn't work.

Haven't tried this walk away & come back hack. Do you have to do it at the beginning of every exercise, or just once? Sounds too complicated and way too much work.

I am getting frustrated. I'd love to like this watch, but now I am thinking about returning it.... :-(


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## Egika

Have you asked the Suunto support about this HR belt issue and how it is supposed to work?


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## WatchFreak_71

Egika said:


> Have you asked the Suunto support about this HR belt issue and how it is supposed to work?


Yes, but I am not holding my breath while waiting for the response....


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## Egika

Don't they have a phone support hotline?


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## Birchleaves

I've had the Trainer now since last week (Steel) and my wife had the black one for a month. I will compare it to the Ambit 3 Run, which I'd say is the predecessor of the Trainer (the simplest/cheapest in it's product line). First of all it is much nicer to wear. The band is softer, the size is better (for me), it sits nicer to the wrist and the buttons are easier to push. I have worn it day and night since I got it, the Ambit I really just wore when training as I didn't like wearing it. So major step forward there. The screen is about the same size. The major drawback is the readability which is not as good as on the Ambit 3 Run even if colour screen is nice. But without backlight I struggle to see anything in most conditions. On my Ambit I saw the display without turning backlight on. I hope this gets some kind of software update for readability options even if it eats some more battery. Until then I think I need to have backlight on all the time when riding trails, as I don't want to fumble for the backlight button when riding over slippery roots. As for Movescount and syncing and all that, I think they are same. The Ambit had "apps", but I didn't really use many. The Trainer has more display view options, up to seven fields which I think is great. I prefer to have one screen with the most important stuff so I don't have to toggle through three screens while biking, I just switch between my route and the watch display, the route is usually my main screen. Which brings me to the navigation, I use it a lot to find my way on trails in the forest. The Ambit has a compass, so if I stop I can actually see which way I should go with help from the compass, whereas the Trainer only use GPS to navigate, thus is of no help when stopping. I haven't really bumped in to a problem yet, but I think I will. Anyway, Suunto started out as a compass company so I think they should always include a compass imo (Suunto even means direction!). The GPS seems accurate as on the Ambit and the HR is good enough for casual workout, I still use the smart belt for trail for now. So all in all a great watch especially if they can fix the readability. The major thing for me is that I wanted a watch I coud use always. The steel one looks great, is light, small and feels comfortable so I'm happy with it.


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## martowl

WatchFreak_71 said:


> I already tried the delete & re-pair workaround for about 10 times, still doesn't work.
> 
> Haven't tried this walk away & come back hack. Do you have to do it at the beginning of every exercise, or just once? Sounds too complicated and way too much work.
> 
> I am getting frustrated. I'd love to like this watch, but now I am thinking about returning it.... :-(


Just a one-time pairing. Sounds like there is either something wrong with the watch or the belt. Can you pair the belt to the phone app and check the firmware and battery? If it is a Suunto smart sensor this should work and give you the info. There was an update to the sensor but it was awhile ago.


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## Birchleaves

martowl said:


> Just a one-time pairing. Sounds like there is either something wrong with the watch or the belt. Can you pair the belt to the phone app and check the firmware and battery? If it is a Suunto smart sensor this should work and give you the info. There was an update to the sensor but it was awhile ago.


Can you somehow see on a workout if it is the belt or the watch taking the HR? I use the belt, but when I see this it makes me wonder.


----------



## martowl

Birchleaves said:


> Can you somehow see on a workout if it is the belt or the watch taking the HR? I use the belt, but when I see this it makes me wonder.


The app on the phone can only use the belt. On the watch, my LEDs do not fire when I am using the belt. Using a belt should improve battery life on oHR watches as well. Otherwise there is no way to tell. Not terribly informative. As I said earlier, I have had my LEDs fire even with the belt but it usually stops. I put my watch in a gym locker, go workout (Pilates or weights), come back and sync. I had it fail only once but that was due to a dead battery in the sensor.

I do notice that HR is displayed much faster on the watch if I have the belt on. It usually takes a few seconds for the oHR to start, the belt is instantaneous since I start the watch after the belt is on. If the exercise is started prior to putting the belt on I am not sure the watch will pick up the belt HR.


----------



## WatchFreak_71

martowl said:


> Just a one-time pairing. Sounds like there is either something wrong with the watch or the belt. Can you pair the belt to the phone app and check the firmware and battery? If it is a Suunto smart sensor this should work and give you the info. There was an update to the sensor but it was awhile ago.


The sensor is OK. I just tried it again with Ambit 3; pairing was successful and Ambit displayed HR during exercise.

I also successfully paired the sensor to MovesCount app, and got the following info:
Battery Level 40 %
Revision 1.1.0/00.DB

I understand this is the latest firmware.

I am not sure if 40 % is good enough battery level. At least Ambit 3 works flawlessly with this same sensor, so I guess this must be a Trainer firmware issue.


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## WatchFreak_71

Birchleaves said:


> Can you somehow see on a workout if it is the belt or the watch taking the HR? I use the belt, but when I see this it makes me wonder.


I became suspicious during my warm-up of indoor tennis, Trainer displayed heart rates between 150-160. I know my body, when my HR is that high, I can definitely feel it.  Then I took a closer look at the watch and saw the sensor leds at the back of the watch blinking, which is an indicator that watch uses optical HR.

I would love if Suunto added an option "Never ever, under any circumstances, use the optical HR during exercise". I feel the optical HR is not that accurate during sports, it can be only used as some kind of rough estimation of your HR during your daily (non-sport) activities.


----------



## WatchFreak_71

martowl said:


> Delete it, re-pair and try again. Even though it may try to use the oHR, start an exercise, go away from the watch and come back after a few minutes. Stop the exercise and allow it to sync. It has been working well for me and not starting the oHR up. Let me know how it works out.


Are you talking about Trainer here, or the older Spartans? I tried your hack but with no success. After I walked back to the watch, I stopped the exercise, but I didn't see any indication of syncing happening. I understand there should be some text "Syncing", like in Ambit 3? Instead, I waited one minute before returning from exercise mode. Then I started exercise again, and again it uses oHR. Really frustrating!!! :-(

Edit: it probably synced, since I could see sane HR values in HR graph, after the exercise. But when starting the exercise again, the HR values are very inaccurate, and the leds flash, which means oHR is used.


----------



## Egika

WatchFreak_71 said:


> Are you talking about Trainer here, or the older Spartans? I tried your hack but with no success. After I walked back to the watch, I stopped the exercise, but I didn't see any indication of syncing happening. I understand there should be some text "Syncing", like in Ambit 3? Instead, I waited one minute before returning from exercise mode. Then I started exercise again, and again it uses oHR. Really frustrating!!! :-(


Again: I really would be interested in knowing what the Suunto support says how to solve this


----------



## RoberGS

WatchFreak_71 said:


> Today I had my first exercises with the new Trainer. Some cycling and indoor tennis. In MovesCount sport modes settings, I had selected "Use heart rate", which means: "When selected, if a chest heart rate sensor is paired and available, the watch uses that sensor. Otherwise, the watch uses the optical heart rate sensor.". I successfully paired Bluetooth sensor just before starting the exercise, but Trainer still used the wrist HR; the sensor leds were blinking and HR was quite inaccurate.
> 
> Has anyone experienced similar problems?


Same problem here. What FC sensor are you using? Mine is Polar H7 and I'm having exactly the same issue. It could be a problem of compatibility because I'm not using the Suunto Smart Sensor, but I think thaat every Bluetooth Smart Sensor should work. I have just sent a commentary to Suunto, waiting for a response.


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## WatchFreak_71

RoberGS said:


> Same problem here. What FC sensor are you using? Mine is Polar H7 and I'm having exactly the same issue. It could be a problem of compatibility because I'm not using the Suunto Smart Sensor, but I think thaat every Bluetooth Smart Sensor should work. I have just sent a commentary to Suunto, waiting for a response.


I am using Suunto Smart Sensor (text Movesense at the back side of the sensor). Works perfectly with Ambit 3 and iOS MovesCount app. Also pairs with Trainer, but the watch chooses to use optical HR for some weird reason.


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## RoberGS

WatchFreak_71 said:


> I am using Suunto Smart Sensor (text Movesense at the back side of the sensor). Works perfectly with Ambit 3 and iOS MovesCount app. Also pairs with Trainer, but the watch chooses to use optical HR for some weird reason.


In that case it's probably a matter of software. If we're lucky they can fix it in the next release (that I think is coming this month).

Enviado desde mi Redmi 4 mediante Tapatalk


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## pizzaslut

Anyone else notice that GPS would sometimes say you walked/ran an extra half a block before getting your location correct again? Also, anyone else find the display back-light could be whiter and more brighter? I take the Sport display is similar in backlight brightness and color?


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## NickSwe

I've got the same problem with the watch always using oHR even though I have a HR belt paired. For the trainer I use a wahoo dual ant+/BLE. Works perfect with the SSU but the with the Trainer it only pairs but never use it during exercise (only oHR). I only use my HR Smartbelt with the SSU to avoid pairing problems.

The POD functionality is a complete mess in the Spartan line. You never know which POD connected and you can only connect one pod at a time. All this mess with paring pods back and forth and not knowing which one connected is very frustrating.


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## RoberGS

I've found a solution (at least with my problem with Polar H7 sensor). I've pressed the upper right button during a few seconds so the watch make a kind of recovery. Next I've paired again de chest sensor and it works!!! 

Now I can see the HR and the optical sensor is off, so the data is provided by the chest strap.

Enviado desde mi Redmi 4 mediante Tapatalk


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## martowl

NickSwe said:


> I've got the same problem with the watch always using oHR even though I have a HR belt paired. For the trainer I use a wahoo dual ant+/BLE. Works perfect with the SSU but the with the Trainer it only pairs but never use it during exercise (only oHR). I only use my HR Smartbelt with the SSU to avoid pairing problems.
> 
> The POD functionality is a complete mess in the Spartan line. You never know which POD connected and you can only connect one pod at a time. All this mess with paring pods back and forth and not knowing which one connected is very frustrating.


Not true about one pod at a time. I routinely have both the Stryd and HR strap connected at the same time. both record. Same goes for my bike sensor and HR strap. If you mean only one type of pod, yes, that is true but my understanding is this will be implemented. Just don't know when.


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## scandium48

I also purchased the same Wahoo RPM speed and cadence sensor. Both paired right away (although from memory I dont recall the watch face showing 2 different pods). However, when I train on the rollers/indoor trainer Im getting both speed AND cadence, so it is working fine for me.


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## scandium48

...and heart rate via the Suunto Smart Sensor.



scandium48 said:


> I also purchased the same Wahoo RPM speed and cadence sensor. Both paired right away (although from memory I dont recall the watch face showing 2 different pods). However, when I train on the rollers/indoor trainer Im getting both speed AND cadence, so it is working fine for me.


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## NickSwe

Martowl, you are sort of right. I can connect HR and Stryd on the same time but when I do eg a triathlon or duathlon I can only pair the Stryd OR the bike power meter. And as soon as I want to change a pod I need to re-pair it, which in my case happens very often. I use three bikes with bike sensors and power meters, a Stryd and different HR belts. And when pairing a new pod you never know which pod connected as it only says sensor paired. A have several HR belts and at a race a few weeks back I was at the start (with a couple of hundred other people) and needed to pair my pod. At that time I had no clue whatsoever which pod it connected to.

Let's just hope Suunto will make the pod functionality more intuitive and easy to use. For example, if I pair my HR belt with the Movescount App it actually says the name of the pod. Hope you are right about Suunto implementing something. I have not heard a thing from support and I have raised this issue with them.


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## Pieter-ZA

Hello!

I browsed through some of the threads over time, and as I am seriously considering to get the SST I would like to get additional information on the following please:

1. When looking at the images at Cardiocritic's review .(suunto-spartan-trainer-data-fields-training-page-customisation.jpg) , how small does the data fields get (_ito readability_) when selecting 4+ fields to display? (I had an A3S and even on that model I would have preferred data lines fields of equal sizes instead of the one large and two smaller displays. For ref I am currently using a Polar M400 in the interim and the 4 line display is very good.)
2. How 'bad' (or is it?) is the amber (instead of white) back light?
3. Will the display rendering be better on the mineral glass model than on the plastic one? 
4. How 'dim' is the display without any back-light, will it be an issue with 4+ data fields to NOT use the back light every time? 
5. Comments on battery life when using the back light on 'standby' mode, as well as not using the oHR but BTLE HRM instead

Apologies for all the questions, and many thanks in advance


----------



## Birchleaves

Pieter-ZA said:


> Hello!
> 
> I browsed through some of the threads over time, and as I am seriously considering to get the SST I would like to get additional information on the following please:
> 
> 1. When looking at the images at Cardiocritic's review .(suunto-spartan-trainer-data-fields-training-page-customisation.jpg) , how small does the data fields get (_ito readability_) when selecting 4+ fields to display? (I had an A3S and even on that model I would have preferred data lines fields of equal sizes instead of the one large and two smaller displays. For ref I am currently using a Polar M400 in the interim and the 4 line display is very good.)
> 2. How 'bad' (or is it?) is the amber (instead of white) back light?
> 3. Will the display rendering be better on the mineral glass model than on the plastic one?
> 4. How 'dim' is the display without any back-light, will it be an issue with 4+ data fields to NOT use the back light every time?
> 5. Comments on battery life when using the back light on 'standby' mode, as well as not using the oHR but BTLE HRM instead
> 
> Apologies for all the questions, and many thanks in advance


1. The four field display has three different sizes on data. Two small top, one large middle and a medium below. The five field display has them all in same sizes however.
2. I don't find it amber at all. But it bleaches the black and colours a lot. I come from a B/W display so I can't compare it to other colour displays.
3. I have both and it is very very slightly better on Steel. But if you don't hold them side by side I would say you couldn't tell.
4. I think it is dim but getting used to it. I no use the plain digital watch, not the standard analogue as I found it unredable. I use four displays when biking, and I can read them.
5. I have had backlight "always on" for some hours or so to check. I didn't notice any major difference. Not when using belt either, I would think it uses slightly less battery, but I didn't notice.


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## Pieter-ZA

Many thanks Birchleaves - much appreciated!


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## WatchFreak_71

RoberGS said:


> I've found a solution (at least with my problem with Polar H7 sensor). I've pressed the upper right button during a few seconds so the watch make a kind of recovery. Next I've paired again de chest sensor and it works!!!
> 
> Now I can see the HR and the optical sensor is off, so the data is provided by the chest strap.
> 
> Enviado desde mi Redmi 4 mediante Tapatalk


That worked for me too. Got basically the same instructions from Suunto customer support.

The only thing that bothers my is when I stop the exercise, why the watch displays "Syncing" for couple of seconds? If HR reception works OK during the whole exercise, there shouldn't be any need to sync any data.


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## martowl

WatchFreak_71 said:


> That worked for me too. Got basically the same instructions from Suunto customer support.
> 
> The only thing that bothers my is when I stop the exercise, why the watch displays "Syncing" for couple of seconds? If HR reception works OK during the whole exercise, there shouldn't be any need to sync any data.


This happens with the Ambit as well. The data sent by the strap includes R-R data and with the older belts we would just get bad data occasionally. I don't think any of the watches has perfect HR data transmission, this ensures that as much data as possible are sent to the watch. So.....shorter version is that is normal.


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## RoberGS

I'm also a bit worried about the battery performance. Are you really obtaining 8 h of battery life with GPS working in best accuracy option? Does anyone tested it in a long activity?

I'm planning a long hike next week and I'd want to know if the watch could record it in best GPS mode or I should choose other GPS option loosing accuracy.

Enviado desde mi Redmi 4 mediante Tapatalk


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## Egika

You can always change the GPS accuracy during the recording.
If you have less than 50% battery left after half the way, you can then change it to "ggood for the rest of the time


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## martowl

Egika said:


> You can always change the GPS accuracy during the recording.
> If you have less than 50% battery left after half the way, you can then change it to "ggood for the rest of the time


and for me, the good fix gives very good tracks.


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## RoberGS

Another observation I've done (yes, I'm a bit meticulous) is about the altitude data provided by gps.

I include an example, where during the first moments after I start running in a really flat street the altitude is increasing until it reachs an (more or less) exact value. So that disrupts the altitude profile and ascent/descent data.









Enviado desde mi Redmi 4 mediante Tapatalk


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## Philip Onayeti

First MTB ride with new Trainer looks good for tracking. Trainer today above, Spartan yesterday below.

Now before you shout me down re different satellites, different days etc etc, I will say the Spartan loses it down this section of track most times. It is very challenging terrain for a GPS watch being on the side of a hill, in quite dense foliage with many switchbacks travelling at speed on a MTB. It really does sort out the capabilities of the many different watches we own between us. Anyway looking good for the Trainer even with the lower class chip.


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## mcotignola

I have been following this thread for a while and decided to pull the trigger ... my spartan trainer wrist HR is on its way  ... and also decided to put my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak for sale to raise some funds for the new watch. Cant wait to try it!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## martowl

mcotignola said:


> I have been following this thread for a while and decided to pull the trigger ... my spartan trainer wrist HR is on its way  ... and also decided to put my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak for sale to raise some funds for the new watch. Cant wait to try it!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hope you are happy, sold my A3P and have not looked back.


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## pizzaslut

I had to return my Trainer as the light leak was becoming a bit noticeable. The store I got from didn't have any in stock(I bought the only one, and didn't look like they got more a month later). So, I heard that the Gear Sport came out. Right now trying that out as the Samsung people at best buy told me there is a bread-crumbing app, but I've yet to find it. GPS seems to be on par with Trainer, and in fact seems to be a tad more accurate; well in the sense it's not showing me crossing the street a few times during a run or walk. Can't actually say how accurate are miles as the Trainer has given me two different sets of data for the same run(1.02miles and 1.07miles vs 1.05 miles for the Sport), but it does not give my cadence, which was something I was starting to like seeing on my runs/walk. 

HR seems to be better than the Gear S3, but not by much. I compared the HR to what the treadmill(LifeFitness brand) was giving me and it was only 3-4BPM lower. While I remember the Trainer being 1-2BPM lower/behind the treadmill. Take that for that is worth. Other things I've noticed calorie burned maybe less accurate, while steps maybe more accurate as it showed only 3 during my sleep vs close to 100 I was getting with the Trainer. Trainer is based on hand movement while Samsung took more of the Garmin approach and based it on actual movement. Barometer and altitude data isn't shown unless connected to wifi or paired a connected to phone via BT, which is odd cause the device as built in altimeter and baro sensors. For gym in some ways it's a better device as it has in the fitness section specific modes for jumping jacks, squats, lunges, chest fly/peck machine, where it can rep count, which had mixed results. Sometimes off by 1 or 2, and other times on the point. 

Battery life wise it's no Trainer with nearly 6 days of charge with gym use, some gps use, and part time connected to my phone getting notifications. So far in my first few days of testing getting at best a little over 2 days, which is better than most Android Wear watches and the Series 3 Apple Watch. I will have to do more test to see how like the device but so far the smaller 43mm size, paired with that great AMOLED display have me swaying the Sport. However, the lack of breadcrumbing, interval options during training, and heavy reliance of two different Samsung apps(one for health, and other for everything else, like settings & apps/watch faces), is a strong negative. If only Suunto went with that great AMOLED display of the Sport and offered stairs climbed like Samsung and Garmin offer, I like the stair machine.


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## Pieter-ZA

pizzaslut said:


> I had to return my Trainer as the light leak was becoming a bit noticeable.


Hello!

I might have missed the info in the thread - can you give some more details re this please?

(Seeing some light coming through between the bezel and watch body (Gold / White model), are you ref to this?)

Thanks


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## pizzaslut

Pieter-ZA said:


> Hello!
> 
> I might have missed the info in the thread - can you give some more details re this please?
> 
> (Seeing some light coming through between the bezel and watch body (Gold / White model), are you ref to this?)
> 
> Thanks


I had the all black model, which had some light leak on the top left near the button there. It was kind of noticeable, and I wish the display was a bit clear, even at full brightness. Why I am trying out the Gear Sport, the OLED display is very good. However, trainer does somethings better than Gear Sport, like it offers breadcrumb navigation(no third party app for that yet either), weightlifting with interval options(might be a 3rd party app for that), better battery life, and a more accurate HR sensor(only close to accurate when resting for the most part) that I miss. If only the two were able to meld; a Suunto Spartan Trainer with an OLED display, altimeter, better step counter(of the Gear Sport), and some of the sports modes(like stair climbing).


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## Pieter-ZA

Thanks for the info @pizzaslut.


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## Indo-Padawan

Hi 

I am asking for recommendation for tempered glass protector, saw it in Ebay - HK Sellers. 

Would it be useful for this model ?


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## meedo

I had to replace my FR405 with something new so I decided to give a chance this one.
I have few questions:
1. Can I edit pre-prepared sport mode screens?
2. Can I remove "Navigation" screen from some of the sport modes?
3. Can I set pace to show avgerage of 3 or 5 seconds?
4. Can I add "Graph" page to custom sport mode?
Thanks!


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## PTBC

meedo said:


> I had to replace my FR405 with something new so I decided to give a chance this one.
> I have few questions:
> 
> Thanks!


1. Can I edit pre-prepared sport mode screens? NO/YES, cannot change the pre-defined sport mode screens, but you can create custom sport modes screen's and remove sport mode screens you don't want
2. Can I remove "Navigation" screen from some of the sport modes? NO (assuming you don't want to turn off GPS, seems like if if it's on there's a navigation screen)
3. Can I set pace to show avgerage of 3 or 5 seconds? NO (you cannot set the duration it uses for average pace)
4. Can I add "Graph" page to custom sport mode? NO


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## Philip Onayeti

*Bring back the bump!*

I think Suunto have made a good move back to the antennae bump design but in the smaller form factor. After running some comparisons all week with the Trainer, SSWHR Baro, Spartan and my trusty A3 I have decided that the Trainer is the best all-rounder if you don't need the huge battery life.

The optical HR is more stable than the SSWHR Baro (both during exercise and 24hr tracking) probably due to the way it sits on the wrist. 
The "lesser quality" GPS chip is better at tracking than the Spartan series and is comparable to A3 probably due to the antennae bump. 
The buttons just work compared to some double swiping required for the touch screen and also work in the wet.

Here are some tracks which are pretty representative of each of the devices in some challenging terrain:

Trainer vs Spartan















Baro vs Baro+GLONASS















Good old A3:


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## rogge

Hi, I'm using my brand new Spartan Trainer for 2 days, and I have some issues with it.

1. The lower left button is really hard to press compared to the others. Also I don't feel the feedback of it being pressed.
I found that some older Suunto watches had similar issues with stuck buttons. Since it is my first watch I'd like to know if it is a regular Suunto design fault or only my watch is faulty.
Does buttons get worse with usage?

2. Other issue is the watch keeps restarting by itself for like 10 times a day. Sometimes I see it happening when I'm browsing the menus, and sometimes it just happens when the watch is in standby. (I updated it to the latest firmware 1.11.56)

Have anyone experienced the same issues with the watch? I'm writing to my local Suunto service center about this but I'm also considering just returning it to the shop.


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## Philip Onayeti

I would definitely return to shop based on the restart issue. Definitely faulty unit. Trainer is made in China and made for a price point and may have not as high quality control as Finnish Suunto.


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## mcotignola

Philip Onayeti said:


> I would definitely return to shop based on the restart issue. Definitely faulty unit. Trainer is made in China and made for a price point and may have not as high quality control as Finnish Suunto.


Well, that is a bad move on Suunto's part. I am ok with Suunto building watches in China but ignoring quality controls will not pay off for them in the long run. Using China as an excuse of lower quality is less and less of an excuse these days. Apple, Samsung and many other are going to eat their lunch if they do (if they are not already). My two cents.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Egika

mcotignola said:


> Well, that is a bad move on Suunto's part. I am ok with Suunto building watches in China but ignoring quality controls will not pay off for them in the long run. Using China as an excuse of lower quality is less and less of an excuse these days. Apple, Samsung and many other are going to eat their lunch if they do (if they are not already). My two cents.


I think the same.
It does not matter where the production is based - as long as quality control is handled well.
On the other hand it is difficult to speak of a general quality problem when there is now a single report complaining on the feeling pressing a button...


----------



## mcotignola

Egika said:


> I think the same.
> It does not matter where the production is based - as long as quality control is handled well.
> On the other hand it is difficult to speak of a general quality problem when there is now a single report complaining on the feeling pressing a button...


Yep. You are right my friend!


----------



## gus

*Re: Bring back the bump!*

Thanks. Good info


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Egika said:


> On the other hand it is difficult to speak of a general quality problem when there is now a single report complaining on the feeling pressing a button...


Correct, however there has been mention of return for back light bleed problem as well.

The "sticky button" problem with the Ambit series was with Finnish made devices.


----------



## GeorgeGabriel

Hello everybody,

I read the last pages of this thread, but i did not fount this issue.
On my last outdoor running, I had some problems with the HR. It read some values until some point, where the HR reached a higher value (over 250) and it stopped reading after. But it was not a problem of positioning the watch on the hand, because usually it vibrates and it shows a message that cannot read the HR. Also the altitude was way off, I run on flat, near a river, and it shoes 88 meters ascending and 94 meters descending.
On the next day, I wanted to record a weight lifting program and again the HR was reading values like 54- 56 while I was running or doing other activities, but not sleeping. And tried to record the HR like 5 times during 1 hour, every time waiting around 5 minutes, but nothing accurate.

I was really sad to be hones. The solution from the Suunto Support was to reset the watch. I will test it again this week and see if this happens again, if not I will return it to the store. 
Anyone had this kind of problems? Can be just the fact that the watch is new and it's still calibrating?

Thank you for your time!


----------



## mcotignola

GeorgeGabriel said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> I read the last pages of this thread, but i did not fount this issue.
> On my last outdoor running, I had some problems with the HR. It read some values until some point, where the HR reached a higher value (over 250) and it stopped reading after. But it was not a problem of positioning the watch on the hand, because usually it vibrates and it shows a message that cannot read the HR. Also the altitude was way off, I run on flat, near a river, and it shoes 88 meters ascending and 94 meters descending.
> On the next day, I wanted to record a weight lifting program and again the HR was reading values like 54- 56 while I was running or doing other activities, but not sleeping. And tried to record the HR like 5 times during 1 hour, every time waiting around 5 minutes, but nothing accurate.
> 
> I was really sad to be hones. The solution from the Suunto Support was to reset the watch. I will test it again this week and see if this happens again, if not I will return it to the store.
> Anyone had this kind of problems? Can be just the fact that the watch is new and it's still calibrating?
> 
> Thank you for your time!


Make sure the strap is very tight to your wrist. I found that it is not tight my watch will record higher than normal readings.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## GeorgeGabriel

Thanks for your answer.
I forgot to mention that I used it with very tight, tight and loose on my wrist, because I thought that this may be a problem. 

For example today I went for a pool swim and I think it worked ok, it's not a dedicated watch for swiming. At least I don't have unreal values for HR. 
I was afraid that maybe just my unit has problems. But I hope that the guys from Suunto will fix some of the bugs at the next update.


----------



## PTBC

Philip Onayeti said:


> Correct, however there has been mention of return for back light bleed problem as well.
> 
> The "sticky button" problem with the Ambit series was with Finnish made devices.


I'm on my 3rd Spartan ultra and certainly this one and the previous one the bottom button seems to 'stick', not sure if it's just to do with the angle it's being pressed as it doesn't seem to happen all the time


----------



## pizzaslut

Has the orange model come out yet?


----------



## Dolphin1

Got the Trainer a few days and thoughts so far are not that good:

1. Simple 4 mile run has me going off path -- not terribly, but about 50 yards off. I had gps set to "best" 
2. HRM seems way too high - I was in top zone (170-180) for nearly the whole run! I know from my Wahoo tickr/Garmin vivoactive that this could not be right.
3. Screen visibility is horrible in low light. I realize I have 50 yr old eyes and sometimes use reading glasses, BUT did not have this problem with vivoactive. (my temporary workaround is to set the backlight to "toggle" and use backlight for all sports. this will obviously eat up battery, but not sure how much...)

Questions:
1. I see no way to modify the # of metrics per screen in each sport or to limit the # of screens used. Is this right? For example, I would like to have 3 screens to scroll -- 1 with time/distance/pace, 2 with only HR, and 3 with average pace/lap time/etc. -- I can do this with old vivoactive
2. Can I set watch to vibrate every 4 lengths I swim at pool? Since I swim in 25m and 25y pools, I just want lengths and not distance. My "old" Vivoactive does this...


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Dolphin1 said:


> Got the Trainer a few days and thoughts so far are not that good:
> 
> 1. Simple 4 mile run has me going off path -- not terribly, but about 50 yards off. I had gps set to "best"
> 2. HRM seems way too high - I was in top zone (170-180) for nearly the whole run! I know from my Wahoo tickr/Garmin vivoactive that this could not be right.
> 3. Screen visibility is horrible in low light. I realize I have 50 yr old eyes and sometimes use reading glasses, BUT did not have this problem with vivoactive. (my temporary workaround is to set the backlight to "toggle" and use backlight for all sports. this will obviously eat up battery, but not sure how much...)
> 
> Questions:
> 1. I see no way to modify the # of metrics per screen in each sport or to limit the # of screens used. Is this right? For example, I would like to have 3 screens to scroll -- 1 with time/distance/pace, 2 with only HR, and 3 with average pace/lap time/etc. -- I can do this with old vivoactive
> 2. Can I set watch to vibrate every 4 lengths I swim at pool? Since I swim in 25m and 25y pools, I just want lengths and not distance. My "old" Vivoactive does this...


There is plenty on the "old" Ambit which the Spartan can't do as well .

To address your points:
1.The GPS tracking has been quite good for me and better than Spartan. Perhaps a little more time to see how it "settles in"?
2.HRM is indeed flakey. Some good days, some bad.
3.The screen is terrible and it doesn't have the backlight "standby" mode of the larger Spartans which helps a lot (I know that doesn't help you :-()

To address you questions:
1. You can make a custom sport mode in Movescount and adjust the fields as you describe.
2. Not that I know of


----------



## Dolphin1

Philip: thanks for response. I did the same 4 mile run last night with old vivoactive and HR strap. Confirmed Suunto optical HR was consistently (no real spikes) high by about 20 beats. Weird. GPS was again off too -- had me running in the middle of the street or in woods and not on trail. Per Suunto help, I sent them the link to run/move.

I will give it a couple more workouts (I want to try swim when I can), but think the screen visibility is a deal breaker for me. Even if I can get consistent HR and better gps accuracy, what good is it if I cannot see on the watch?


----------



## Pieter-ZA

How do I activate the 16h battery life, as stated here: 

Suunto introduces Spartan Sport Wrist HR Baro



> Spartan Trainer Wrist HR: 16 hours (1-sec. GPS fix with power-saving options); 30 hours with 1-min. GPS fix


----------



## Egika

Pieter-ZA said:


> How do I activate the 16h battery life, as stated here:


You set the GPS accuracy to "Good". You can do this either in Movescount in the sport mode settings or in the watch if you press and hold the middle button while in a recording.
Drawback: The watch will not record altidude readings in "Good" or "OK" GPS modes..

You can further increase battery lifetime by enabling a display timeout and or less colors in the display (set it up the same way as GPS accuracy)


----------



## Pieter-ZA

Hi Egika

Many thanks, but "Good: ~ 20 sec fix rate" (From the user guide)

The link I have posted indicates 16h on _keeping_ a 1 sec recording interval, but with power saving options : Spartan Trainer Wrist HR: 16 hours (1-sec. GPS fix with power-saving options) 
(Or is Suunto making a mistake here with the 1 sec / 16h? It sounds almost too good to be true.)

As you have mentioned, I presume 'power saving options' entails the following, but can (only) the display timeout make such a big difference? (P30)




> 3.24.2. Sport mode power saving optionsTo extend battery life while using sport modes with GPS, your biggest gains come from
> adjusting GPS accuracy (see 3.14. GPS accuracy and power saving). To extend battery life
> further, you can adjust use the following power saving options:
> • Display timeout: normally, the display is always on during your exercise. When you turn on
> the display timeout, the display turns off after 10 seconds to save battery power. Press any
> button to turn the display back on.
> To activate power saving options:
> 1. Before you start an exercise recording, press the lower button to open the sport mode
> options.
> 2. Scroll down to Power saving and press the middle button.
> 3. Adjust the power saving options as you want and keep the middle button pressed to exit
> the power saving options.
> 4. Scroll back up to the start view and start your exercise as normal.
> NOTE: If the display timeout is on, you can still get mobile notifications as well as sound
> and vibration alerts. Other visual aids such as the autopause pop-up are not shown.


----------



## Egika

yes, you are right.
The Spartan Ultra with a different GPS chip also has different specs here.
It keeps the 1s fix rate even in the "good setting"

Which obviously is not true for the trainer 

Then the only power saving options are the color mode and the display timeout like you mention.
And yes: Display timeout makes quite a difference. It is not just the display being active - also the rendering of the fonts and graphics eats power.


Plus it makes sense to set the backlight from "automatic" to "toggle". In automatic it comes on with every button of the watch. While in toggle it stays off until you press and hold the upper left button.
Backlight is a big battery eater


----------



## Pieter-ZA

Thanks Egika!

Going to try your suggestions


----------



## martowl

Pieter-ZA said:


> Thanks Egika!
> 
> Going to try your suggestions


Did not know the Trainier has no 1s power saving good fix....maybe that explains why that feature is not available on fenix5/s/x. Too bad...my tracks on Good with the Ultra are indistinguishable from Best.


----------



## VeSt79

Can trainer be set to distance race?
For example, set 5k distance, run and automatically stop after 5k measured?


----------



## martowl

VeSt79 said:


> Can trainer be set to distance race?
> For example, set 5k distance, run and automatically stop after 5k measured?


No, all Spartans can only use time as a target....this is often requested, here is hoping!


----------



## VeSt79

martowl said:


> No, all Spartans can only use time as a target....this is often requested, here is hoping!


Thank you for reply!
Yes, they also stated that in RACE mode: _Designed for running a marathon or test run of any distance. *Set a target distance* and/or duration to follow your progress during the race in real time.
_So there is hope yes...


----------



## martowl

VeSt79 said:


> Thank you for reply!
> Yes, they also stated that in RACE mode: _Designed for running a marathon or test run of any distance. *Set a target distance* and/or duration to follow your progress during the race in real time.
> _So there is hope yes...


I agree, and believe this will be implemented....in fact it is beyond me why they have not done this yet. Seems simple but I am not a programmer.


----------



## Pieter-ZA

FWIW as an alternative to this I try to get the (GPX) route of an event beforehand and use the ETA / ETE configured fields to get estimated race time.


----------



## Pieter-ZA

v1.12.36 is available.


----------



## charliebigpot

Does anyone have some tips on how to improve distance tracking accuracy when doing indoor activities? Went for a 1k run on the treadmill, the watch registered 2.5k.. did some indoor rowing, 2k, the watch registered 800 meters, now even half of the real distance.. what a bummer..


----------



## Egika

charliebigpot said:


> Does anyone have some tips on how to improve distance tracking accuracy when doing indoor activities? Went for a 1k run on the treadmill, the watch registered 2.5k.. did some indoor rowing, 2k, the watch registered 800 meters, now even half of the real distance.. what a bummer..


Use a foot pod! Indoors the watch can only detect arm movement and try to derive a speed/distance from this. As you watch people running you will see, that their arms move very differently. How should the watch know the correlytion of your stride to your arm movement??
Think about it and then get a foot pod 
Or run for a certain distance outdoors with best GPS reception. This will kind of auto calibrate the measurement - but don't expect miracles from it...


----------



## charliebigpot

Egika said:


> Use a foot pod! Indoors the watch can only detect arm movement and try to derive a speed/distance from this. As you watch people running you will see, that their arms move very differently. How should the watch know the correlytion of your stride to your arm movement??
> Think about it and then get a foot pod
> Or run for a certain distance outdoors with best GPS reception. This will kind of auto calibrate the measurement - but don't expect miracles from it...


Thanks for answering&#8230; What you say makes perfect sense, but then I wonder, what's the point of being able to select different sport modes when the measurements are so inaccurate&#8230; I wonder, maybe I can get a food pod and pair it with the watch, but I'm not sure how the measurements would be shown.


----------



## slashas

Point is to have ability to record something, personally I amend treadmill workout distance after. All devices which are using accelerometer for distance are incorrect, there is none yet in the market which would be able to track distance correctly only with accelerometer on wrist... Your expectations are way too high... That’s why Footpod was developed for such situations and it is very accurate.


----------



## Egika

charliebigpot said:


> Thanks for answering&#8230; What you say makes perfect sense, but then I wonder, what's the point of being able to select different sport modes when the measurements are so inaccurate&#8230; I wonder, maybe I can get a food pod and pair it with the watch, but I'm not sure how the measurements would be shown.


The point of different sport modes is not so much about distance measurement without GPS - it is more for calculation of energy consumption, to assignm group and compare your move to a certain sport and also to record different sport specific data (like strokes per lane in swimming, # of rides in skiing and cadence in SUP (which is not important for kite boarding).
If you get a foot pod for better speed and distance measurement, it will integrate seamlessly into the other watch data. That means the watch is using speed, distance and cadence from the foot pod. HR and duration from the watch. Super easy.


----------



## charliebigpot

slashas said:


> Point is to have ability to record something, personally I amend treadmill workout distance after. All devices which are using accelerometer for distance are incorrect, there is none yet in the market which would be able to track distance correctly only with accelerometer on wrist... Your expectations are way too high... That's why Footpod was developed for such situations and it is very accurate.





Egika said:


> The point of different sport modes is not so much about distance measurement without GPS - it is more for calculation of energy consumption, to assignm group and compare your move to a certain sport and also to record different sport specific data (like strokes per lane in swimming, # of rides in skiing and cadence in SUP (which is not important for kite boarding).
> If you get a foot pod for better speed and distance measurement, it will integrate seamlessly into the other watch data. That means the watch is using speed, distance and cadence from the foot pod. HR and duration from the watch. Super easy.


Alright, sorry if I came off the wrong way. You both make very valid points + I first was only using the movescount app on Android where you cannot edit the workouts afterwards (saw it works on the web  ). Are there any pods you can recommend that work well with the watch?


----------



## slashas

This source will help you with decision 6point http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Footpod

Stryd 2.0 230€ vs Milestone 35€ 

Everyone now is about power so might be stryd worth...


----------



## Egika

I'm not about power 
Only because there is a metric generating numbers it doesn't necessarily have to be used.
I also don't like the Garmin Fenix watches, which generate so many metrics of questionable use..
But that's my personal opinion.
There is also the Adidas Micoach as a foot pod.


----------



## slashas

Garmin overmetrics you  I am in the same boat as you, tired of Garmin, I do hill climb Garmin says it was “easy” I do easy hiking, Garmin says I am overtraining


----------



## PTBC

slashas said:


> This source will help you with decision 6point Footpod - Fellrnr.com, Running tips
> 
> Stryd 2.0 230€ vs Milestone 35€
> 
> Everyone now is about power so might be stryd worth...


The Milestone's are good, as an entry point you can't go wrong


----------



## martowl

slashas said:


> This source will help you with decision 6point Footpod - Fellrnr.com, Running tips
> 
> Stryd 2.0 230€ vs Milestone 35€
> 
> Everyone now is about power so might be stryd worth...


Unless you want power, go with the milestone...a lot cheaper and I believe with good calibration can be fairly accurate.


----------



## charliebigpot

FYI in case anybody has the same question: 
If you edit a move on movescount, the edit will only be visible on the website but not on the watch. They passed the feedback on to the devs.


----------



## Egika

charliebigpot said:


> FYI in case anybody has the same question:
> If you edit a move on movescount, the edit will only be visible on the website but not on the watch. They passed the feedback on to the devs.


Yes. The sync is one-directional only.
Exception: after a reset on the watch the moves of the last 30 days are synced back (excluding HR data)


----------



## Loves2Run

I recently upgraded my refurbished 5 year old Garmin Forerunner 210 to a Suunto Spartan Trainer Wrist HR and have been seeing what I believe are some pretty significant GPS discrepancies despite the GPS being set to take the highest quality reading.
I live in Brooklyn, NYC and do most of my running on the Red Hook track. This is near the water and isn't surrounded by any tall buildings as it's in the middle of a park. I've also done most of my running under clear or slightly cloudy skies.
Despite that, I'm consistently seeing anywhere between 10-20% inaccuracy over the course of a mile on that track. My Forerunner 210 is usually accurate to within 0.02 miles or less on any given lap so I was expecting something along those lines with the Spartan. Instead I'm getting readings like 1.16 miles on what should be a mile (4 laps). The Forerunner 210 would be right around the 1 mile mark. I was also off by over 1/2 a mile on an 8-miler I did two weeks ago.
I was considering just accepting it but for the hell of it I also tested it at the Prospect Park loop, which is 3.4 miles. Again, not many buildings surrounding this as it's in the middle of the park and yet my circuit gave me a 3.82 mile reading. The Forerunner is usually right around the 3.4 mile mark.
And for the hell of it, I did a street run that I know to be about 1.5 miles and was given a 1.75 mile reading from the watch.
Are these unreasonable discrepancies?


----------



## swimmina

I just got a Trainer Wrist HR less than a week ago, updated to 1.12.36, started using it in the pool (really the main thing I bought it for) and I'm having all kinds of problems. I'd like to think it's not user error, but it's all new to me. I'm setup to view yards and swimming in a 25 yd pool (which I have set the watch with).

1. When I swim any distance and hit lap at the wall to remove my rests (I'm assuming I need to do that - I'm not using auto pause) it displays 25 yds less than I do every time. I swim 100, it shows 75; I swim a 50, it shows 25. This is on the initial screen when I hit lap -- it shows it correctly with the full amt when I look back in the logs.
2. I seem to be getting a much faster pace displayed during my swim as well. I checked with the pace clocks (which I'm pretty sure are accurate at my pool) and see that I swam a ~1:45 for 100 yds, but the watch is telling me my pace is ~1:34/100 yds. I'm absolutely sure I'm not swimming 1:30-somethings for these intervals.
3. When I got out of the pool today, it gave me a summary of 2226 yards. How can I have swam 2226 in a 25 yd pool?

I'm finding it really frustrating since my old Garmin 910xt was straight forward -- but again, I'm getting used to a new setup and interface, so I'm not sure if I've done something wrong or how to troubleshoot.

Do I have some wonky setting somewhere that I need to change? Do I need to reset the watch? What settings should I look at or customize for it to make sense? Or is there actually something wrong with my new toy?

Thanks for your help, guys!


----------



## Egika

Just don't touch the watch while swimming. It will automatically detect your push-off the wall after turning and give you a nice overview over every single lap in Movescount.


----------



## swimmina

Egika said:


> Just don't touch the watch while swimming. It will automatically detect your push-off the wall after turning and give you a nice overview over every single lap in Movescount.


Even if I'm doing intervals of a distance other than 100yds? How do I record a lap and get the interval time during the workout?


----------



## swimmina

(that should be "how do I record an INTERVAL" -- not lap.)


----------



## PTBC

swimmina said:


> (that should be "how do I record an INTERVAL" -- not lap.)


If you stop (say every 4 lengths) and don't push for a few seconds it automatically records an interval, or that's how it has seemed to work for me, all automatic.

The missing 1 length issue was a problem on the initial release, it was fixed (about a year ago I think) and I haven't had that problem for a while, possibly using manual laps/intervals instead of automatic makes a difference or possibly there's still a few exceptions where the bug crops up.


----------



## swimmina

PTBC said:


> If you stop (say every 4 lengths) and don't push for a few seconds it automatically records an interval, or that's how it has seemed to work for me, all automatic.
> 
> The missing 1 length issue was a problem on the initial release, it was fixed (about a year ago I think) and I haven't had that problem for a while, possibly using manual laps/intervals instead of automatic makes a difference or possibly there's still a few exceptions where the bug crops up.


Thanks, PTBC! I'll try that in the pool tomorrow AM.

The other thing that I noticed is that all the distances show up in Movescount as an odd distance - 96 yds instead of 100, 481 yards instead of 500, and 144 yds instead of 150. Has anyone experienced that before??


----------



## Egika

No, but could it be that they mix up yards with meters in some calculation?
Just guessing...


----------



## swimmina

Egika said:


> No, but could it be that they mix up yards with meters in some calculation?
> Just guessing...


I thought about that, but I can't figure out anywhere where that actually makes sense. For example, 100 yds = 91 meters, not 96. But that is probably tied to my inaccurate pacing issue.


----------



## Xiphan

Hey everyone, so I have this watch and it has frozen twice now and both times I cannot figure out how to reset it when it happens. Which combination of buttons do I need to press to reset it or is waiting for the battery to die the only solution? :-s


----------



## Egika

Have you tried pressing the top right button for around 12-15s?


----------



## Xiphan

Egika said:


> Have you tried pressing the top right button for around 12-15s?


Yes, and I'm afraid it's still frozen. Thankfully it's frozen with the backlight on so the battery will die fairly soon. Though in all honestly I think I should try RMA this watch because this is the second time it has frozen like this and I've barely had it a month!


----------



## slashas

Xiphan said:


> Yes, and I'm afraid it's still frozen. Thankfully it's frozen with the backlight on so the battery will die fairly soon. Though in all honestly I think I should try RMA this watch because this is the second time it has frozen like this and I've barely had it a month!


Try to factory reset it before RMA.


----------



## Xiphan

slashas said:


> Try to factory reset it before RMA.


How does one even do that? I can't see any factory reset option in the watch.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

You do it through Moveslink. Settings icon top right then "Watches" and select "reset all settings"


----------



## slashas

To be more specific via suuntolink


----------



## swimmina

PTBC said:


> If you stop (say every 4 lengths) and don't push for a few seconds it automatically records an interval, or that's how it has seemed to work for me, all automatic.
> 
> The missing 1 length issue was a problem on the initial release, it was fixed (about a year ago I think) and I haven't had that problem for a while, possibly using manual laps/intervals instead of automatic makes a difference or possibly there's still a few exceptions where the bug crops up.


So, I tried without pausing, and it still records weird distances. I'm in a 25 yd pool, and I am set to record and view yards in both the watch and the app, but it still records me swimming 96, 81, 16 yard intervals.

Also, it's capturing 5-10 seconds off my 100 time, which makes it really useless for speed and interval training. I swim a 1:45/100yd and it records 1:36. I even try to make a point to not glide to the wall and stop my watch hand, which is kind of annoying. Whether I do that or swim naturally, it's still making me look way faster than I am and doesn't give me a realistic goal pace.

Does anyone else have this problem? Is it a settings thing? A watch thing?


----------



## PTBC

I've only used it fairly casually for swimming, so haven't looked into it that much. For metres it's always been spot on for me based on the setting selected, the one time I did set it to yards I had some odd results, but it was a 150 yard outdoor pool and (tried both open water and pool modes) so not exactly a good reference point


----------



## Egika

Strange. Please check with the Suunto support about it and let us know what they say.
For me and my partner ist has been spot on in a 25m pool so far


----------



## NickSwe

Egika said:


> Strange. Please check with the Suunto support about it and let us know what they say.
> For me and my partner ist has been spot on in a 25m pool so far


I agree. Both for me and my wife swimming accuracy has been spot on.
The only thing is that it may miss the last lap (25m) if I press stop to quickly. I need to wait a 3-4 seconds after hitting the wall.


----------



## PTBC

swimmina said:


> records me swimming 96, 81, 16 yard intervals.


Converting them they would roughly be 88m,75m,15m respectively. If it was messing up between UoM you'd expect them to be multiples of 25m

They are all multiples of 16 (81 is slightly out) so there does seem to be some consistency (1 lap, 5 laps & 6 laps)


----------



## babychai

Hi, guys. Anyone using Strava here?
I notice that the activity information from Movecounts transfer to Strava have huge different. So which app provide infos is more accurate? I personally think Strava infos is more accurate. But what you guys think?
Sometimes my activity can't turn it into movie in Movescount app due to error but Strava still able to turn it into movie. Anyone here experience this issue before?


----------



## caverunner17

So I've read through all 35 pages of this thread and seem some positive and negatives. The biggest negative I see is readability of the fields, but that seems to be fixable by fixing to the "light" mode that has black text on a white background (like Garmin) and lack of customizing fields unless you create a new activity.

I currently have a Garmin Forerunner 230 -- had many Garmins over the years - the Forerunner 201, 205, 110, 220, 230 along with the Edge 500 and 510. While I'm a fan of the entire echosystem, there have been a number of bugs they just don't fix (like the barometer issues with the Fenix 3 and 5 or some of the Edge units losing saves). That, and features are usually pretty set once released. ConnectIQ can help, but you can't actually see that data on Garmin Connect. 

While my Forerunner 230 has been near flawless, I'm getting into triathlons this year and plan on running a 100 miler next summer (2019). The couple of Connect IQ pool apps I've tried have been a let down, not being able to record my splits, not to mention not being able to set up an interval workout for it. Also, there's no way I'd get 24 hour battery out of the watch like it appears you can with the limited GPS endurance sampling mode with the Suunto. 

While I'm sure the Fenix 5 or 935 are my ideal watches, I can't justify the price. I have a bunch of gift cards and a coupon for a local shop here that would take my out of pocket price for the Spartan Trainer down to $170 for the plastic version or $200 for the metal version. 


A few questions:

For those who have it, would you buy it again?

On a custom workout page, can you choose elevation as a field option? (Up here in CO, there's often a big difference between say running at 5500' here in Denver or at 8000' in the mountains)

What is average standby battery life for you all? Assuming an hour of GPS usage per day, I've been getting around 5-6 days or so of battery life with all of the smart notifications set up. 

How big is the LCD itself? I see it's 218x218px, but nothing on the LCD size. I haven't been able to compare it to my Forerunner. 

Glass vs plastic? Not sure if the glass/metal version is worth the extra $$. I usually throw a screen protector on my watches anyways due to wearing them as a daily watch and not wanting to get them scratched it.


----------



## martowl

caverunner17 said:


> So I've read through all 35 pages of this thread and seem some positive and negatives. The biggest negative I see is readability of the fields, but that seems to be fixable by fixing to the "light" mode that has black text on a white background (like Garmin) and lack of customizing fields unless you create a new activity.
> 
> I currently have a Garmin Forerunner 230 -- had many Garmins over the years - the Forerunner 201, 205, 110, 220, 230 along with the Edge 500 and 510. While I'm a fan of the entire echosystem, there have been a number of bugs they just don't fix (like the barometer issues with the Fenix 3 and 5 or some of the Edge units losing saves). That, and features are usually pretty set once released. ConnectIQ can help, but you can't actually see that data on Garmin Connect.
> 
> While my Forerunner 230 has been near flawless, I'm getting into triathlons this year and plan on running a 100 miler next summer (2019). The couple of Connect IQ pool apps I've tried have been a let down, not being able to record my splits, not to mention not being able to set up an interval workout for it. Also, there's no way I'd get 24 hour battery out of the watch like it appears you can with the limited GPS endurance sampling mode with the Suunto.
> 
> While I'm sure the Fenix 5 or 935 are my ideal watches, I can't justify the price. I have a bunch of gift cards and a coupon for a local shop here that would take my out of pocket price for the Spartan Trainer down to $170 for the plastic version or $200 for the metal version.
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> For those who have it, would you buy it again?
> 
> On a custom workout page, can you choose elevation as a field option? (Up here in CO, there's often a big difference between say running at 5500' here in Denver or at 8000' in the mountains)
> 
> What is average standby battery life for you all? Assuming an hour of GPS usage per day, I've been getting around 5-6 days or so of battery life with all of the smart notifications set up.
> 
> How big is the LCD itself? I see it's 218x218px, but nothing on the LCD size. I haven't been able to compare it to my Forerunner.
> 
> Glass vs plastic? Not sure if the glass/metal version is worth the extra $$. I usually throw a screen protector on my watches anyways due to wearing them as a daily watch and not wanting to get them scratched it.


If you are doing a 100 miler I would not buy the Trainer. You will be charging a lot unless you are very, very fast. On anything but Best GPS fix you will get no altitude data! So, I would strongly recommend only the baro WHR model or the Ultra. There are good online prices for the Ultra. You would have to use the Trainer at Best fix to get altitude data and charge every 8-10h on a 100 mile ultra unless you are wicked fast. If you can finish under 20h it won't be such a big deal.


----------



## caverunner17

martowl said:


> If you are doing a 100 miler I would not buy the Trainer. You will be charging a lot unless you are very, very fast. On anything but Best GPS fix you will get no altitude data! So, I would strongly recommend only the baro WHR model or the Ultra. There are good online prices for the Ultra. You would have to use the Trainer at Best fix to get altitude data and charge every 8-10h on a 100 mile ultra unless you are wicked fast. If you can finish under 20h it won't be such a big deal.


Not as worried for altitude data for the 100 miler, more concerned about HR for that. I really don't want a touch screen. I've demoed the Garmin 630 and the Apple Watch a couple of times and hated it rather than just using physical buttons for menus and such. Plus, too many cold CO mornings with gloves where buttons work great.

The rest of it though, how does it compare?

Thanks!


----------



## martowl

caverunner17 said:


> Not as worried for altitude data for the 100 miler, more concerned about HR for that. I really don't want a touch screen. I've demoed the Garmin 630 and the Apple Watch a couple of times and hated it rather than just using physical buttons for menus and such. Plus, too many cold CO mornings with gloves where buttons work great.
> 
> The rest of it though, how does it compare?
> 
> Thanks!


I am in CO and do a lot of ski mountaineering with the Ultra...the screen is better than the Trainer and you do not need to use the touch screen. But it is more convenient IMHO. For example a double tap on the screen gives battery% and time so you don't have to devote space on the screen for that. The touch screen works pretty well with light gloves on. My big gloves won't even work the buttons and I often lock the screen anyway. My main point was battery for the 100 will be a problem. If you use OK fix, the track will not be very good as it is only 1 min fix.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

caverunner17 said:


> A few questions:
> 
> For those who have it, would you buy it again? Yes, the GPS and Wrist HR are good performers for the price (see below).
> 
> On a custom workout page, can you choose elevation as a field option? (Up here in CO, there's often a big difference between say running at 5500' here in Denver or at 8000' in the mountains) Yes you can
> 
> What is average standby battery life for you all? Assuming an hour of GPS usage per day, I've been getting around 5-6 days or so of battery life with all of the smart notifications set up. Can't help here as the watch gets downloaded to a computer every other day or so and gets a charge up. But my HRBaro sure doesn't get 5 days.
> 
> How big is the LCD itself? I see it's 218x218px, but nothing on the LCD size. I haven't been able to compare it to my Forerunner.
> 
> Glass vs plastic? Not sure if the glass/metal version is worth the extra $$. I usually throw a screen protector on my watches anyways due to wearing them as a daily watch and not wanting to get them scratched it.I looked at both and the glass/metal seems to bring the build quality to an acceptable level for a Suunto.


3 current Suuntos worn on wrist by 3 riders together. Shuttle MTB park. Pause at bottom of run then un-pause at top of mountain. Wait a few minutes to allow GPS to make sure it knows we have moved (or so we thought).
HRBaro, Sport, Trainer:


----------



## Pieter-ZA

My feedback based on my experience:


caverunner17 said:


> So I've read through all 35 pages of this thread and seem some positive and negatives. The biggest negative I see is readability of the fields, but that seems to be fixable by fixing to the "light" mode that has black text on a white background (like Garmin) and lack of customizing fields unless you create a new activity.
> Did not work for me, made it worse so I switched back. (Small font is really the issue, especially in low light conditions)
> .
> .
> A few questions:
> 
> For those who have it, would you buy it again?
> NO
> 
> On a custom workout page, can you choose elevation as a field option? (Up here in CO, there's often a big difference between say running at 5500' here in Denver or at 8000' in the mountains)
> Yes - there is a pre-configured 'Mountain' mode (see attachment), and elevation is also available for a user config'ed mode.
> 
> What is average standby battery life for you all? Assuming an hour of GPS usage per day, I've been getting around 5-6 days or so of battery life with all of the smart notifications set up.
> IIRC 4 days. (An hour of GPS takes uses ~10% of bty life, without BT, oHR)
> 
> How big is the LCD itself? I see it's 218x218px, but nothing on the LCD size. I haven't been able to compare it to my Forerunner.
> 'Usable' 25mm diameter (if that is what you mean - or do you mean font?).
> 
> Glass vs plastic? Not sure if the glass/metal version is worth the extra $$. I usually throw a screen protector on my watches anyways due to wearing them as a daily watch and not wanting to get them scratched it.
> I bought the glass / metal and I think is reflects a bit more at certain angles, so you have to angle it more 'rectangular to your view for a good reading. (In comparison with my Polar M400 plastic I used previously)


My top issues with the SST:
Useless oHR, so I have disabled it in the sport profiles
Limited bty life on Best
Small font
No apps as per Ambit 3
GPS accuracy so-so (~2%)
Not suitable for small wrists due to the protruding hard sides of the casing on on either side of the display
Sleep tracking is totally useless (Please learn from Polar!)
Issues between using a BT HRM and oHR (meaning sometimes it will switch back to oHR when losing connection from BTLE HR monitor)

All in all a very disappointing offering from Suunto - I really regret buying it as there are not a lot of functions left (after above list) which are actually usable in a good way!


----------



## mcotignola

Sleep tracking is totally useless (Please learn from Polar!)

Hi,
Can you provide additional information on the sleep tracking comment. How does Polar work? Why did you find it useless? What would you like to see Suunto change?

Thanks,

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Pieter-ZA

mcotignola said:


> Can you provide additional information on the sleep tracking comment. How does Polar work? Why did you find it useless? What would you like to see Suunto change?


Hello!

You need to 'bracket' your sleep time on the Suunto, time outside of this window will not be seen as sleeping time. (E.g. see SST doc here ) So e.g. mid-day naps, or going to bed earlier / sleeping later than defined won't count as sleeping.
(AFAIK) there is not a view on this from Movescount, the (basic) sleep data is kept on the watch for a rolling 7 day period. (It also won't detect if you don't wear the watch for a period, it will continue (trying to) measuring HR with the oHR if that option is switched on. Suunto could have use e.g. the accelerometer to detect). Suunto will also only show the additional sleep detail once - in the morning, When going back into the Sleep Reporting option on the watch it will only show hours slept and weekly summary ave.

With Polar you don't have to define your sleeping window (doc here) and it is available on the Flow (web) platform. From my experience this is very accurate! See attached picture for the Polar. (I recorded three runs on that day, hence the three 'heart' symbols' - also more appropriately it is actually an 'activity tracker', which includes sleep time.)

So in summary - I see the Suunto implementation as a very primitive / basic one (just to tick the box somewhat?), with no platform (web) analysis & reporting support.


----------



## slashas

It is just beginning, suunto is entering fitness/activity field now as they were only focused on the sport part, so I think it will get just better and better. I’ve used Garmin/polar on early days when they implemented sleep/daily activity tracking and they were not perfect as well, my 2 cents.
I am more focused on sport part so not much care about activity/sleep but would be nice to have historical data view which is limited now.


----------



## hasto092

Hi, having had this watch for some time has anyone heard if there is going to be more watch faces released via updates. Some of the faces are getting a bit tiresome. With all the available tech etc I was hoping you'd be able to swap out more than just the generic faces. Just a thought.


----------



## mcotignola

Pieter-ZA said:


> Hello!
> 
> You need to 'bracket' your sleep time on the Suunto, time outside of this window will not be seen as sleeping time. (E.g. see SST doc here ) So e.g. mid-day naps, or going to bed earlier / sleeping later than defined won't count as sleeping.
> (AFAIK) there is not a view on this from Movescount, the (basic) sleep data is kept on the watch for a rolling 7 day period. (It also won't detect if you don't wear the watch for a period, it will continue (trying to) measuring HR with the oHR if that option is switched on. Suunto could have use e.g. the accelerometer to detect). Suunto will also only show the additional sleep detail once - in the morning, When going back into the Sleep Reporting option on the watch it will only show hours slept and weekly summary ave.
> 
> With Polar you don't have to define your sleeping window (doc here) and it is available on the Flow (web) platform. From my experience this is very accurate! See attached picture for the Polar. (I recorded three runs on that day, hence the three 'heart' symbols' - also more appropriately it is actually an 'activity tracker', which includes sleep time.)
> 
> So in summary - I see the Suunto implementation as a very primitive / basic one (just to tick the box somewhat?), with no platform (web) analysis & reporting support.


Thank you ... I get it now!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## mcotignola

hasto092 said:


> Hi, having had this watch for some time has anyone heard if there is going to be more watch faces released via updates. Some of the faces are getting a bit tiresome. With all the available tech etc I was hoping you'd be able to swap out more than just the generic faces. Just a thought.


Couldn't agree more ... this sounds like easy and cheap thing to do. Hopefully Suunto is reading this!!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Egika

slashas said:


> I am more focused on sport part so not much care about activity/sleep but would be nice to have historical data view which is limited now.


 Have you tried the new Suunto app? It's still beta but provides a history for sleep, steps, etc. in daily, weekly and monthly views.


----------



## slashas

Egika said:


> Have you tried the new Suunto app? It's still beta but provides a history for sleep, steps, etc. in daily, weekly and monthly views.


Yes and unfortunately not comparable with polar/Garmin/Fitbit offerings


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## Egika

slashas said:


> Yes and unfortunately not comparable with polar/Garmin/Fitbit offerings


 You are right. It is a different product.


----------



## PTBC

Pieter-ZA said:


> Hello!
> 
> You need to 'bracket' your sleep time on the Suunto, time outside of this window will not be seen as sleeping time. (E.g. see SST doc here ) So e.g. mid-day naps, or going to bed earlier / sleeping later than defined won't count as sleeping.
> (AFAIK) there is not a view on this from Movescount, the (basic) sleep data is kept on the watch for a rolling 7 day period. (It also won't detect if you don't wear the watch for a period, it will continue (trying to) measuring HR with the oHR if that option is switched on. Suunto could have use e.g. the accelerometer to detect). Suunto will also only show the additional sleep detail once - in the morning, When going back into the Sleep Reporting option on the watch it will only show hours slept and weekly summary ave.
> 
> With Polar you don't have to define your sleeping window (doc here) and it is available on the Flow (web) platform. From my experience this is very accurate! See attached picture for the Polar. (I recorded three runs on that day, hence the three 'heart' symbols' - also more appropriately it is actually an 'activity tracker', which includes sleep time.)
> 
> So in summary - I see the Suunto implementation as a very primitive / basic one (just to tick the box somewhat?), with no platform (web) analysis & reporting support.


Tried a Polar and agree the flow site has some nice activity features that suunto could learn from (and conifg features like intervals for scheduled moves), I liked that it took into account and showed when you weren't wearing the watch


----------



## mcotignola

Egika said:


> Have you tried the new Suunto app? It's still beta but provides a history for sleep, steps, etc. in daily, weekly and monthly views.


Where/how do you get the Beta app? Is the app working well? Or, are you having lots of issues?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Egika

mcotignola said:


> Where/how do you get the Beta app? Is the app working well? Or, are you having lots of issues?


Get it here https://app.suunto.com
Working very well and has been open beta for quite a few months. Almost ready to be released with the coming 3 Fitness model. No issues at all for me.


----------



## mcotignola

Egika said:


> Get it here https://app.suunto.com
> Working very well and hassle been open beta for quite a few months. Almost ready to be released with the coming 3 Fitness model. No issues at all for me.


Thank you!!!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## r719

Hi all,
I am owner of Spartan Trainer since couple of weeks, and noticed considerable discrepancies in indoor swimming distances. So far I have three swim moves; first one I swam 10 lengths (in 25 yards pool), but the watch recorded 19 laps. Then I swam 20 lengths, and the watch recorded 33. Finally I swam for 30 lengths and the watch recorded 46. I used basic swimming mode with automatic lap recognition. Is there anything I can do to improve the accuracy. I need to add that I swim rather slowly.
Thanks


----------



## likepend1

r719 said:


> Hi all,
> I am owner of Spartan Trainer since couple of weeks, and noticed considerable discrepancies in indoor swimming distances. So far I have three swim moves; first one I swam 10 lengths (in 25 yards pool), but the watch recorded 19 laps. Then I swam 20 lengths, and the watch recorded 33. Finally I swam for 30 lengths and the watch recorded 46. I used basic swimming mode with automatic lap recognition. Is there anything I can do to improve the accuracy. I need to add that I swim rather slowly.
> Thanks


I experienced something similar but did some testing (more like trial and error). The algorithm used in the watch seems to require a fair amount of push-off-force to recognise a lap. If there is no such "dominant" force the algorithm is really struggling (same thing with my old ambit2s). Did you change the pool length (under sport mode options, just hit the down button after selecting Pool swimming) before the activity?


----------



## Egika

likepend1 said:


> I experienced something similar but did some testing (more like trial and error). The algorithm used in the watch seems to require a fair amount of push-off-force to recognise a lap. If there is no such "dominant" force the algorithm is really struggling (same thing with my old ambit2s). Did you change the pool length (under sport mode options, just hit the down button after selecting Pool swimming) before the activity?


Plus if you are interrupted during the length it might count an additional one.


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## mcotignola

likepend1 said:


> I experienced something similar but did some testing (more like trial and error). The algorithm used in the watch seems to require a fair amount of push-off-force to recognise a lap. If there is no such "dominant" force the algorithm is really struggling (same thing with my old ambit2s). Did you change the pool length (under sport mode options, just hit the down button after selecting Pool swimming) before the activity?


I changed the setting for the pool length via sports modes on my phone. Go to settings and change it from "auto lap to distance." Please note that you will have to convert 25m pool to mi (~0.0124mi). I haven't try this but it may work. Please let us know if you do. Thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## r719

likepend1 said:


> I experienced something similar but did some testing (more like trial and error). The algorithm used in the watch seems to require a fair amount of push-off-force to recognise a lap. If there is no such "dominant" force the algorithm is really struggling (same thing with my old ambit2s). Did you change the pool length (under sport mode options, just hit the down button after selecting Pool swimming) before the activity?


Yep I did change the pool length. I don't think it is related to the watch not recognizing the laps, it is rather other way around 



Egika said:


> Plus if you are interrupted during the length it might count an additional one.


I wasn't interrupted, but sometimes did slow down when people swimming in opposite direction were passing by.



mcotignola said:


> I changed the setting for the pool length via sports modes on my phone. Go to settings and change it from "auto lap to distance." Please note that you will have to convert 25m pool to mi (~0.0124mi). I haven't try this but it may work. Please let us know if you do. Thanks!
> 
> How do you change it from auto lap to distance? Couldn't find it in watch settings.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## r719

mcotignola said:


> I changed the setting for the pool length via sports modes on my phone. Go to settings and change it from "auto lap to distance." Please note that you will have to convert 25m pool to mi (~0.0124mi). I haven't try this but it may work. Please let us know if you do. Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


How do you change it from auto lap to distance? Couldn't find it in watch settings.


----------



## mcotignola

r719 said:


> How do you change it from auto lap to distance? Couldn't find it in watch settings.


Hi there,
I used the Suunto app on my phone but you can use the web app:
- click on the watch on the top right 
- click on sport modes
- it will re-direct you to the web
- pick the sport - pool swimming 
- scroll down and you will see "show sport mode settings"
- click on the box under auto lap
- select distance 
- you will get a field to niter the distance

Hopefully these steps will get you there. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Miguel

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Pieter-ZA

Has anyone tested the max bty life with GPS set to 'Best'? (On ave the depletion seems to be approx 10% / h)

Ideally I would like to use 'Best' for an ~11h run, will the 'Display Timeout' make a meaningful difference?

Thanks


----------



## Guiguirondy

I had a similar experience, good to know that you need to push harder off the wall... Definitely not as smooth recording activities as my old Garmin.

In the same vein, I have noticed strange behaviours with the watch which I was hoping you could help me with:
* Swimming: rest time is not recorded by the watch, which I know. However, I am not sure how the watch detects the start of a new interval. Should I press any button? If I press the lap button at the start of an interval, the watch seems to thing I already swam a pool length. This means that at the end of the interval, the watch misses one pool length. If I do not press any button to indicate the start of an interval however, the watch seems to record much shorter interval times - for the right distance this time. Looking for some guidance on that.

* Running: some of my intervals are not 1 km long, meaning I will hit the lap button before the end of the kilometer. However, the watch continues to display the time and pace for this specific kilometer rather than the new lap (or interval, whichever you call this). How can I record and have access to my current lap/interval data for this sort of activity?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Pieter-ZA

(I am pretty sure the bty showed 84% before the update...???  )

http://www.suunto.com/Support/Produ...ner_wrist_hr/suunto_spartan_trainer_wrist_hr/


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## Mawgie

Folks,

I have a brand new Spartan Trainer Wrist HR and a Polar M430 and a Garmin Vivoactive 3 sitting in front of me. One of them will replace my battered, but beloved Polar M400.

Of the three I really like the fit and look of the Suunto the best, but just cannot get comfortable with the dim display. Are there any workarounds that will brighten up the display so that you don't have to press a button to wake it to full brightness? I know you can run a light instead of dark theme in exercise profiles, but not in the regular watchface.

The Polar "paper white" display is ultra legible, but not color (no big deal to me). the Polar M430 form factor, though, is kind of blocky. Kind of hideous. 

I'd like to make the Spartan Trainer Wrist HR work, but I can't abide the always dark display. Any input would be most appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Pieter-ZA

Is this what you require?



> 3.5. Backlight
> The backlight has two modes: automatic and toggle. In automatic mode, the backlight comes
> on with any button press. In toggle mode, you turn the backlight on by keeping the upper left
> button pressed. The backlight stays on until you keep the upper left button pressed again.
> By default, the backlight is in automatic mode. You can change the backlight mode from the
> settings under General » Backlight.


----------



## Ehe

Hello, could someone to help me? My SST have a problem with HR measuring. When I start run first 2 kilometers HR is to low. After 2 kilometers is HR ok (screen attached). Did you experienced this?


----------



## Alziku

Ehe said:


> Hello, could someone to help me? My SST have a problem with HR measuring. When I start run first 2 kilometers HR is to low. After 2 kilometers is HR ok (screen attached). Did you experienced this?
> View attachment 13228215


Hi Ehe,

I also had problems in the beginning with the HR measure.
Try to place the watch a little bit up in the wrist, just before the cubital bone bump, and tie it a litle more so it dont move a lot.
It should help.


----------



## martowl

Pieter-ZA said:


> Has anyone tested the max bty life with GPS set to 'Best'? (On ave the depletion seems to be approx 10% / h)
> 
> Ideally I would like to use 'Best' for an ~11h run, will the 'Display Timeout' make a meaningful difference?
> 
> Thanks


I do not have a Trainer but Display Timeout will make a difference for battery life. Autolaps also decrease battery life so turn those off too.


----------



## Pieter-ZA

Thanks - I did do my run in the end with 'Display Timeout', and only 4 auto laps (using a BTLE HRM Wahoo strap), and I got 9h58 out of the SST, on 'Best'.

(Luckily I borrowed a family member's SST as a backup, used with 'GOOD', no screen timeout and no HR, and manage to record my whole run of 10h38)


----------



## martowl

Pieter-ZA said:


> Thanks - I did do my run in the end with 'Display Timeout', and only 4 auto laps (using a BTLE HRM Wahoo strap), and I got 9h58 out of the SST, on 'Best'.
> 
> (Luckily I borrowed a family member's SST as a backup, used with 'GOOD', no screen timeout and no HR, and manage to record my whole run of 10h38)


The Trainer, unfortunately does not have a Good GPS fix if I remember correctly. The SST and Ultra on Good fix give me very good tracks. I can get about 35h out of the Ultra on Good fix, long enough for all but a couple of races I have done or am attempting to get into. Glad you had this work, maybe the Trainer isn't the watch for you.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Pieter-ZA said:


> Thanks - I did do my run in the end with 'Display Timeout', and only 4 auto laps (using a BTLE HRM Wahoo strap), and I got 9h58 out of the SST, on 'Best'.
> 
> (Luckily I borrowed a family member's SST as a backup, used with 'GOOD', no screen timeout and no HR, and manage to record my whole run of 10h38)


The battery time was pretty spot on quoted!
"Good" may have got you over the line


----------



## Pieter-ZA

I have both tracks - Best & Good, will upload at a stage to show the diif, FWIW.
(As it was point to point GOOD was quite OK)


----------



## Pieter-ZA

For those who are interested:

For comparison purposes I trimmed the 'Good' (setting) file to be as long as the 'Best' file, duration wise (9:58:49):

*Good:*
26726 Points
87.3 Km
Right wrist
(Manually stopped at 10:37:54 (Full activity). 92.27 Km indicated. Certified distance was 90.184 Km) 
No HR

*Best:*
30581 Points
86.6 Km
Left wrist
Watch shut down at 9:58:49
BTLE HRM strap

(BOTH watches SST's.)

Elevation values are way (~200m) out but there is a warning about that in the owner's guide:


> _If you need good elevation readings, ensure your GPS accuracy is set to Best during the
> recording_


Overall Good can be useful, especially where there are not (too) many sharp turns. I did get a warning that battery is on 20% at a stage, and I finished the run with 15% showing. Extrapolating that ~12.5h should be obtainable.

On the zoom level of BC1 (orig tracks) no significant variation between the two tracks can be seen. Zooming in will show some (minor) deviation at times. (Expected)


----------



## Birchleaves

Since I started using Suunto app with my Wrist HR instead of Movescount the Strava upload is not working very good. It seems to sync to Strava sometimes. But usually misses the last workout. I can't really see the logic behind how it behaves. But when synching to the mobile it doesn't sync to Strava at all. I have to sync to the computer and Suuntolink, and even that seems to have some problems. My only guess is that because the mobile app is not synching to Strava at all, and Suuntolink only synchs the formerly unsyched moves it messes things up? It's not good. Makes it a step bakward for me. Anybody else with the same problem? Any solutions?


----------



## shilev

hello, i have latest sotware version 2.0.42. 
watch is feew days old.
everything works fine but ascent and descent data is missing, value is 0.
it's missing on running and hiking and on cycling it's ok.
any suggestions?
maybe bug in this software version?

thanks in advance


----------



## slashas

shilev said:


> hello, i have latest sotware version 2.0.42.
> watch is feew days old.
> everything works fine but ascent and descent data is missing, value is 0.
> it's missing on running and hiking and on cycling it's ok.
> any suggestions?
> maybe bug in this software version?
> 
> thanks in advance


You are using best settings in GPS for these sports?


----------



## shilev

yes


----------



## shilev

i aslo tried reset 12 seconds upper right button, after reset still same problem


----------



## shilev

edit:

it works 
it probably doesn't register short ascents, now i tried with car few 200-300m ascents in my street and it's fine both ascent and descent data, i used running mode.


----------



## slashas

shilev said:


> edit:
> 
> it works
> it probably doesn't register short ascents, now i tried with car few 200-300m ascents in my street and it's fine both ascent and descent data, i used running mode.


Yes because it is based on the gps for more sensitive reporting you need watch with barometer altimeter.


----------



## martowl

Birchleaves said:


> Since I started using Suunto app with my Wrist HR instead of Movescount the Strava upload is not working very good. It seems to sync to Strava sometimes. But usually misses the last workout. I can't really see the logic behind how it behaves. But when synching to the mobile it doesn't sync to Strava at all. I have to sync to the computer and Suuntolink, and even that seems to have some problems. My only guess is that because the mobile app is not synching to Strava at all, and Suuntolink only synchs the formerly unsyched moves it messes things up? It's not good. Makes it a step bakward for me. Anybody else with the same problem? Any solutions?


Syncing to Strava is not implemented yet in the Suunto app. If you sync to MC with the cable the moves should sync to Strava as they did before. The moves synced with the Suunto app are not marked as synced to MC so all moves should sync to MC whether or not you have synced with the Suunto app. This is working fine for me. I would advise having only the Suunto app or MC app on your phone, both have caused me and others issues. So if you want to use the Suunto app, remove MC app and sync with the cable.


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## martowl

shilev said:


> edit:
> 
> it works
> it probably doesn't register short ascents, now i tried with car few 200-300m ascents in my street and it's fine both ascent and descent data, i used running mode.


It should register relatively short ascents but will only work on GPS Best mode not on OK mode. My SSWHR would register fairly short ascents, much less than 100m.


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## shilev

i have gps best mode as i said.

another thing. today i was on 8 km run, and after 6. kilometer HR monitor was lost for few seconds, than again ok, than again lost etc..watch was very tight to wrist all the time. maybe sweat under HR sensor is problem?


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## shilev

Here is screenshot from strava after sync









Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## shilev

After losing HR monitor value for few seconds it started from cca 100 even if i was in reality in red zone for sure.. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## martowl

shilev said:


> After losing HR monitor value for few seconds it started from cca 100 even if i was in reality in red zone for sure..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Your OHR works better than mine. I don't find the OHR reliable for running so I use the belt.


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## Pieter-ZA

martowl said:


> don't find the OHR reliable for running so I use the belt.


Same here, I find the oHR totally useless. (So I use a TickR or H7 HRM)


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## [email protected]

Philip Onayeti said:


> You do it through Moveslink. Settings icon top right then "Watches" and select "reset all settings"


I have the same problem. Tried resetting through Suuntolink / settings/ watches / reset. It starts then immediately again gives error message "watch needs to be reset"


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## mcotignola

Two questions for the group:

1) What is your favorite screen on the Spartan Trainer? Why?
2) Why do you think Suunto will not make more screen available to us?

Thank you,
Macotignola 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## menos

Anyone else has seen these heart rate issues with the Suunto Spartan WHR recently ?

https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/spa...sensical-heart-rate-much-too-low-4830165.html

Mine reads some very strange heart rates and I cannot effectively use it as an heat rate monitor any longer.

I am going to test it with todays software update for a while (but will surely use my Ambit3 Peak to record heart rate just to be sure).


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## sathomasga

menos said:


> Anyone else has seen these heart rate issues with the Suunto Spartan WHR recently ?


How recent is "recently"?

I bought the watch about a month ago and the heart rate has always been worthless for running. (Interestingly, it works fine for cycling, which is supposed to be more challenging for wrist-based optical sensors.) It quickly jumps above 200 bpm and stays there pretty much the entire workout. See, e.g. movescount or sports tracker.


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## swimmeragain

swimmina said:


> I just got a Trainer Wrist HR less than a week ago, updated to 1.12.36, started using it in the pool (really the main thing I bought it for) and I'm having all kinds of problems. I'd like to think it's not user error, but it's all new to me. I'm setup to view yards and swimming in a 25 yd pool (which I have set the watch with).
> 
> 1. When I swim any distance and hit lap at the wall to remove my rests (I'm assuming I need to do that - I'm not using auto pause) it displays 25 yds less than I do every time. I swim 100, it shows 75; I swim a 50, it shows 25. This is on the initial screen when I hit lap -- it shows it correctly with the full amt when I look back in the logs.
> 2. I seem to be getting a much faster pace displayed during my swim as well. I checked with the pace clocks (which I'm pretty sure are accurate at my pool) and see that I swam a ~1:45 for 100 yds, but the watch is telling me my pace is ~1:34/100 yds. I'm absolutely sure I'm not swimming 1:30-somethings for these intervals.
> 3. When I got out of the pool today, it gave me a summary of 2226 yards. How can I have swam 2226 in a 25 yd pool?
> 
> I'm finding it really frustrating since my old Garmin 910xt was straight forward -- but again, I'm getting used to a new setup and interface, so I'm not sure if I've done something wrong or how to troubleshoot.
> 
> Do I have some wonky setting somewhere that I need to change? Do I need to reset the watch? What settings should I look at or customize for it to make sense? Or is there actually something wrong with my new toy?
> 
> Thanks for your help, guys!


Did anyone find out a resolution to this problem? I just bought a Suunto and am having the same problem in the pool. Yardage wrong. I spoke to Suunto and they are looking into it.


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## ponciarelli

swimmeragain said:


> Did anyone find out a resolution to this problem? I just bought a Suunto and am having the same problem in the pool. Yardage wrong. I spoke to Suunto and they are looking into it.


Same here and it's the 25th January 2019.... still have distance and lap issues... any useful update?


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## tiagoams

I get extremely unrealiable results from the HR optical sensor so I am considering a chest sensor to pair with the watch. I know that bluetooth/smart sensors can be paired up with this watch but is there a way to see the readings in realtime? If not, does anyone have a suggestion for a sensor that I can beep when above a threshold?

Thanks
Tiago


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## jstruik

I have had this watch for almost one year. I often use a heart rate belt to better detect my heart rate during an activity.

When viewing my daily HR (graphical) my device often (not always) shows the black screen of death and restarts. Then the daily HR is empty.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?


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## HCLee

Broken lugs, anyone have the same or similar experience?

Using Spartan Trainer Wrist HR sandstone for about 2 months since last December (brought form the distributor in Taiwan).
Last week, the belt accidentally detach from the body without impact.
Soon, I realized the lugs on the opposite side of the GPS bump broken at both end (normally they are covered by the belt).

Send to the distributor (Empyrean) in Taiwan for repair, and they told me there is no replace part right now, need wait for about 2 weeks.

Kind of disappointed about the build quality and the repairing service.

Wonder if anyone have the same or similar experience?


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## tiagoams

tiagoams said:


> I get extremely unrealiable results from the HR optical sensor so I am considering a chest sensor to pair with the watch. I know that bluetooth/smart sensors can be paired up with this watch but is there a way to see the readings in realtime? If not, does anyone have a suggestion for a sensor that I can beep when above a threshold?
> 
> Thanks
> Tiago


I ended up buying a Polar H10 chest strap that works well with the watch. I didn't realise this before but the chest readings are shown in realtime on the watch. The values are radically different from the watches optical readings: 190 bpm becomes 160 bpm and all the spikes disapear.


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## tiagoams

Unfortunately this is a common user complaint. I am only using mine during runs and treating as a delicate instrument


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## ronelspies

Hi, Not sure how to post a new question on here, so simply adding it to the thread - apologies if this is the wrong way of going about it.

I have an issue with the BT connection if I set airplane mode on and then off again - more info below:

I've had my Suunto Spartan Trainer for 4 days now, updated the software through SuuntoLink on my laptop 3 days ago. I make use of the airplane mode function from time to time & found that after I turned airplane mode on, and off again, the BT connection to phone does not work. I followed Suunto's guidelines of removing app settings from watch and watch from app to try again, still no success. Found a workaround though - if I turn airplane mode off, then go into my other connections and try connect to a non-existing heart-rate strap, it seems to trigger the BT connection again. I tried logging this on the Suunto support site, but cannot get my support question to go through to them. Essentially I found a workaround, but was wondering if other people also experience this, or am I just going about it wrong? (I guess not many people would use airplane mode function). Any comments or else advice on how to get this through to Suunto, pls let me know.


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## JoeK1973

Does anyone know if this watch can be configured for an indoor (pool-based) triathlon? Cheers


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