# Manufaktur Waldhoff - any opinions?



## fyndi

I found this company from Kickstarter and they really have one nice watch, "The Multimatic" which is using Miyota 9100 caliber.









Is this Manufaktur Waldhoff a start up company or do they have any previous models? They print "Made in Germany" on their watch, but are those models really German made?

Manufaktur Waldhoff - Luxury Watches - Made in Germany


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## Watchbreath

Made in Germany via China, great pinball effect on the eyes.


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## StufflerMike

Too polite to answer your inquiry in toto.
A German manufacture with no German spoken web site. C'mon. Think.


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## Perseverence

I pledged. I'm going for the blue Multimatic, though the white is beautiful as well. 

Half the price and better looking than the Detroit Watch Company equivalent. 

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## StufflerMike

Only 997 left and pushers and date window are different compared to the Detroit Watch Co. watch. One is Made in Germany, the other Made in the US.
The 1701 Timepiece as designed by the Detroit Watch Company. The Waldhoff watches are designed in Geneva, Switzerland. So the question is who is right ?


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## Perseverence

My two favorites. The pictures don't do them the justice the videos on their site do.










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## fyndi

I googled a little bit more and found out that Waldhoff founders have many years of watch making history.



> Manufaktur Waldhoff is a new independent watch manufacturer started in 2015 by Manfred Starck and Nicolas Lehotzky. Based in Pforzheim, the brand's goal is to bring a line of well-priced high-end automatic watches. For this they are using an interesting set of features: the watches are designed in Geneva, Switzerland, produced in Pforzheim, Germany and powered by Japanese movements. How will this help the end-user? Simple! The design is done by an experienced watch designer, Nicolas Lehotzky, which has a huge work experience as a product designer, in product management and as a sourcing specialist. Manfred Starck has 40 years of watch business experience, having his own company, Starck-Uhren Gmbh, since 1990.


More of this company can be found here, but it doesn't say if this is GermAsian company.
Swiss soul, German body and Japanese heart - the Manufaktur Waldhoff - Watchisthis


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## StufflerMike

Nice fairy tale.


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## Watchbreath

"Once upon a time", should be a required warning.


fyndi said:


> I googled a little bit more and found out that Waldhoff founders have many years of watch making history.
> 
> More of this company can be found here, but it doesn't say if this is GermAsian company.
> Swiss soul, German body and Japanese heart - the Manufaktur Waldhoff - Watchisthis


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## Herman65

I have the white dial and love the watch!


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## rodtp

I just came across their Indiegogo project last night. I'm really considering ordering one, they look great and the price is very compelling. I'm in between the Republic and Multimatic models. Not sure what to get. 

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## gangrel

Neither. I hate being sold a dozen separate lines. 

The price is cheap on that Republic because it has a mediocre *at best* movement. 9000-series Miyota...ok, not my favorite, but not bad for the price. However, that's on the 3-handers. On a chronograph? With all the extra fiddly bits? No. 8000-series just doesn't cut it on anything.


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## Perseverence

I really like my Multimatic. Specs and presentation, much better than the Detroit Watch Company 1701 Multi-Function. 

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## hoppes-no9

Why is this being discussed on the German watch forum? 

C'mon guys, have some standards. Japanese movement, Chinese other parts, MAYBE assembled in Germany. 

Are there no reputable German companies that make watches for you to spend your money on?


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## Perseverence

hoppes-no9 said:


> Why is this being discussed on the German watch forum?
> 
> C'mon guys, have some standards. Japanese movement, Chinese other parts, MAYBE assembled in Germany.
> 
> Are there no reputable German companies that make watches for you to spend your money on?


If it's not your money or your wrist, it's not your problem.

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## StufflerMike

Perseverence said:


> If it's not your money or your wrist, it's not your problem.


Please allow our members to voice their opinion. It is not his money on his wrist, it's not his problem - it's his opinion.....and he might be right. In case you can't stand criticism just skip.


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## Perseverence

stuffler said:


> Please allow our members to voice their opinion. It is not his money on his wrist, it's not his problem - it's his opinion.....and he might be right. In case you can't stand criticism just skip.


Maybe someone who enjoys their watch should be allowed to enjoy it, instead of having to suffer an antagonistic poster who gets away Scott-free because a moderator agrees with them.

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## StufflerMike

You are allowed to enjoy your watch as much as others are allowed to offer criticism.


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## CDID

I bought the black obsidian republic, the royal blue republic (gift for my brother) and the tobacco regent through indiegogo campaign. Couldn’t be happier with my first experience with crowdfunding campaigns. I may be naive but 3 Automatic movement watches with reputable Japanese movements for $579 seemed like a fair deal to me. 
The republic is miyota 82SO movement and regent is seiko nh38 movement. 
Came with 3 extra leather straps, all with quick release.


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## watchingandwaiting

I can't comment re if Manufaktur Waldhoff is "really" German, but am posting to this thread because I couldn't be more happy with my Ultramatic -- a tourbillon model I just received from them (via Kickstarter). Of course it's a Chinese movement, but that's the only possibility to have a tourbillon without heading into the $$ stratosphere. The watch was sent to me from Germany, and says "made in Germany" on the dial -- so clearly they are making claims to being "German" -- but they never hid the origin of the movement, which to me is fair enough...


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## Armchair

Co-axial?


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## sparg93

I've been seriously considering the Ultramatic, it's a stunning watch IMO.

I've been searching the net but haven't been able to find how they plan on servicing these watches Any ideas? Also, do you know if the movement is from Sea Gull?


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## jarlleif

watchingandwaiting said:


> The watch was sent to me from Germany, and says "made in Germany" on the dial -- so clearly they are making claims to being "German" -- but they never hid the origin of the movement, which to me is fair enough...


My Junkers has a Japanese movement and is Made in Germany. My other German watches have Swiss movements and are Made in Germany. No reason someone couldn't use a Chinese movement... As long as they are honest about it I don't think it's a problem at all.

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## Zzyzx

I haven't been able to find much on Starck-Uhren Gmbh online. This website lists the brands that are apparently produced by Starck:

Starck-Uhren, Specialist for Promotional and Privat-Label Watches

I'm not saying I know everything, but I do live in Germany and I have never heard or seen a single one of these brands. Although "Skytimer" rings a faint bell. It _may_ be that I once saw a watch of theirs in an airline merchandise magazine? I searched Lehotzky, and apparently he is a Swiss entrepeneur who has designed watches to look like Caterpillar machinery, bicycle parts and automotive components.

It just seems a bit... used car salesman-ish to me. One dude who owns a company making no-name, forgettable watches that you would expect to see advertised in supermarket magazines and another dude who's watch design history seems to have started in 2008 with... questionable aesthetic choices. And taking advantage of Germany's rather lax laws about "Made in Germany."

Add to that what seems like attempts to mislead the consumer: "Coaxial" on that tourbillon piece? I highly doubt it. "Manufaktur"? Not by any stretch of the imagination.


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## watchingandwaiting

sparg93 said:


> I've been seriously considering the Ultramatic, it's a stunning watch IMO.
> 
> I've been searching the net but haven't been able to find how they plan on servicing these watches Any ideas? Also, do you know if the movement is from Sea Gull?


The movement is a Peacock 5212 -- Sea Gull also produces a low-cost Tourbillon, but the three recent Kickstarter tourbillon projects that I am aware of all used this Peacock movement. From the brief research I did, it seems to be pretty well regarded (at the price point at least!).

Regarding service, this is what the company said re the Ultramatic:

"Some of you inquired about future servicing of our Tourbillon movement. We stand behind our products 100% and will handle service even beyond the 2 year warranty period. Our service will include accuracy testing, calibration, cleaning and lubrication of mechanical parts. For more serious issues we will propose a replacement of the movement, as totally disassembling a tourbillon movement in this price category would be cost prohibitive. After sales service is not a revenue channel for us and our service will be priced reasonably."

I don't know the people behind Manufaktur Waldhoff, so can't be sure that they will honour their stated service terms (and in a micro-brand there is always a key person risk, whatever their intention). However the communication from the founders throughout the kickstarter campaign has seemed to me to be believable and I have chosen to trust that they are acting with integrity. They delivered the watches as promised, and I'm very happy with them, so so far so good.

P.S. I picked up a second watch from them in the same campaign (non-tourbillon), which I haven't posted anything on yet. But suffice it to say, I also think it's also a good watch, with a different Chinese movement that is running well so far and has pretty well the biggest power-reserve I've ever seen! (note they also have some watches with Swiss movements).


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## watchingandwaiting

Here's the aforementioned Waldhoff Capital. It is based on the Hangzhou 7500, which is a relatively new movement from Hangzhou Watch Company. From my very basic research, their movements seem to have a decent reputation, and this one has a mega 80 hour power reserve. I can attest to the fact that it is at least that -- after letting it get charged up on my watch winder for a couple of days, I took it off and let it run on my desk, and it went on and on, seemingly forever!

Overall, I'm happy with the watch, but it hasn't grabbed me in the way the Ultramatic has. I like skeletons, but this one seems a bit "static" to me -- maybe because of the large open area and the particular mechanism design there just seems to me to be a bit less "going on" in terms of visual interest / movement than with some other skeletons. That's a subjective impression (it may not be factually correct), but that's still a key part of the aesthetics for me. Also, the strap on the Capital feels a bit staid / boring, while a very similar strap on the Ultramatic seemed to really suit it. I will try some different straps, which from experience can transform a watch from so so to awesome, but at this point I'm not convinced that my quest for "a perfect skeleton" is over.

One final point. On running it over several days the first time, I measured it as a consistent + 10 s/d. However, this time round it seems to be going at about +20 s/d. The variation is a bit concerning (even if it is within the movement spec of +/- 25 sec/d) and is much less accurate than the excellent time keeping shown by the Ultramatic's Peacock Tourbillon.


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## stoyan79

I've got the Ultramatic. Its nice.


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## sparg93

stoyan79 said:


> I've got the Ultramatic. Its nice.


Any pictures worth sharing?

The hard part for me in grabbing one w/o ever trying it on in person. But at least online in all the vids/photos, I love the look. So many watch choices!


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## sparg93

After having these watches for a few months, would you purchase one again?


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## Yukoner1

So my wife backed a Kickstarter campaign last year to get me this Vanguard V8 from Waldhoff for our wedding anniversary. I have to say, it's easily one of my favourite watches.

I've been in contact with Waldhoff since getting the watch to ask about servicing, etc. They responded to me, on a weekend, in less than 4 hours. I was actually able to have a "conversation" over e-mail back and forth a few times, with maybe 10min in-between e-mails. That level of customer service you WON'T find with the big brands, that's for sure.

As for the country of origin. My understanding is that the case and related parts are made in Germany, and the watch is assembled in Germany. The movement is a Chinese tourbillon from Hangzhou. Obviously that's not as high end as a Swiss made tourbillon, but then again, my wife wasn't spending $150,000.00 either ;-) That said, the power reserve is right on the mark at 80 hours, and it's actually very accurate as well. To be really honest with you, I was expecting a lot less in terms of accuracy and power reserve consistency. This is not a "junk" movement, IMO, despite it being a cheaper Chinese made one. The bracelet, I actually don't know, but have to assume it is Asian manufactured (to be fair, even more mainstream "luxury" watches have their bracelets made in Asia, so this isn't really a sticking point for me personally). If I had to pick my least favourite thing about the watch, it would actually be the bracelet. I'd have liked to see a bit of a different design, particularly with how the butterfly clasp operates.

As far as the watch itself goes, it certainly has a quality look and feel to it. I've handled the watch enough that I'm comfortable saying that, to me, it's pretty high quality. I don't see machining problems, I don't see uneven edges, I don't see any crystal issues, I don't see poor fitment..... I don't really see _anything_ that would scream "low quality, cheap crap" to me. That said, I haven't looked at the watch under a loupe, but then again, I don't really have a need to. To answer the last poster's question of whether I would buy one again - yes, yes I would. As far as a microbrand goes, I think this one punches well above its height and delivers a really good product with matching value. I'm actually considering buying another one, different model of course :-!


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## Yukoner1

UPDATE !

My birthday was a few days ago, and my wife knows how much I love my Waldhoff Vanguard V8, so she decided to splurge and get me an Ultramatic Carbon Bay RG Limited in rose gold, with matching rose gold bracelet.

This particular reference is nothing short of amazing ! The dial (a mother-of-pearl gradient blue) is absolutely stunning in direct sunlight. The sub-dials are interesting - a 24 hour sub-dial and a power reserve indicator. This is my first time owning a watch with either of these two specific complications. I have to say, I feel that nearly every mechanical watch, whether manual or automatic, should have a power reserve indicator. It's so great to be able to look at your watch and instantly know how low you are on power.

The finishing on this reference is superb, just like the Vanguard V8. The dial, the indicies, the case, everything is very well made and nothing looks out of place. The weakest spot of the watch overall, just like the Vanguard V8, is the bracelet. Again, I wish the butterfly clasp was a bit differently designed, as for me, it digs into my wrist sometimes.

Overall, this watch hits the ball out of the park, just like the Vanguard V8. Waldhoff is obviously a seasoned manufacturer at this point, and it really does show in the quality of their products. I would happily buy another one (or have another gifted to me ? ) and I think it's safe to say that Manufaktur Waldhoff is my favourite microbrand !


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## subbuwatch

I am planning on buying the Waldhoff Ultramatic rose gold in carbon grey. since i am guessing you have had this tourbillon for more than 10 months now, is it reliable and do you consider any other options in this price range before buying this model?
i have considered the agelocer skeleton tourbillon, Geckota tourbillon, Waldhoff vanguard V8 Tourbillon. All seem to be well made and design wise look nice when compared to other tourbillons though all have chinese movements which is fine for me as long as it holds it's quality, losing +/- some seconds doesn't bother me. but complete failure of the watch will cause pain to me. because i buy it only for the visual treat of the tourbillon.


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## subbuwatch

I have bought some watches from microbrands like Geckota, so i like kickstarter watches for the designs. some i find very appealing. one such brand was Waldhoff which i find very good value for money. So planning on buying it. any suggestions for alternate brands would be appreciated.


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## subbuwatch

ERA prometheus, Aventi tourbillons don't interest me that much, the Aventi manual wind tourbillon is same movement as that of Waldhoff Vanguard V8 i guess.


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## Ed.YANG

hoppes-no9 said:


> Why is this being discussed on the German watch forum?
> 
> C'mon guys, have some standards. Japanese movement, Chinese other parts, MAYBE assembled in Germany.
> 
> Are there no reputable German companies that make watches for you to spend your money on?


The general rule of "made In Germany" is more relaxed than "Swiss Made" for start.
So... When this section of the forum is named as German Watch, is a timepiece have Made In Germany printed on dial, doesn't that qualifies as German Watch as the product ASSEMBLED IN GERMANY with FOREIGN COMPONENTS?

Just something to debate on, Zepplin, Junkers, LACO with Miyota Movement consider as German or Germasian?
The same thing applies to BMW, which have some of it's production done in different parts of the world. Is that a German company? Or something else... when their SUV is built in America, and some of their sedans were made in Thailand.

I wouldn't deny your doubt as i was initially struck by such confusion and doubt as well.


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## Bradjhomes

I had a Waldhoff Tourbillon in for review last year:








Manufaktur Waldhoff Imperial Diamond Silver Watch Review - 12&60


Manufaktur Waldoff’s stated goal is “to create extraordinary mechanical timepieces, entirely assembled and calibrated by hand, in-house, in our own workshop”. Today, I’m looking at one of those extraordinary timepieces – the Imperial Diamond Silver.




www.watchitallabout.com


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## Mark Romano

fyndi said:


> I found this company from Kickstarter and they really have one nice watch, "The Multimatic" which is using Miyota 9100 caliber.
> 
> View attachment 12453435
> 
> 
> Is this Manufaktur Waldhoff a start up company or do they have any previous models? They print "Made in Germany" on their watch, but are those models really German made?
> 
> Manufaktur Waldhoff - Luxury Watches - Made in Germany


Top notch watches. These are watches made in Germany. Don't listen to the haters.

Waldhoff is an up and comer , out of Germany.

I currently own 4 waldhoff watches. As far as quality I'll put them against any Swiss made watch.

As a matter of fact 2 of the ones I own have swiss movements. 2 x tornado -1xwasp edition both ETA Valjoux 7750, 1x multimatic Miyota movement.

Just ordered the Mercury Grand Central that watch I should be receiving in May. This watch features waldhoffs very first in-house collaboration movement. Caliber 7780SW Rhodium Plated
When watchmakers start making their own movements that's when the numbers go sky high on what the watch is worth.

Like I said in my opinion.. and I own several Swiss watches as well. This German company is very innovative and they're putting out very high end quality watches. 

You may not know the history of Germany. But before there was a Swiss made watch. The very highest end watches were coming out of Germany before the war.

So should you buy a Waldhoff watch. Besides them being awesome watches I believe they are very very likely to be worth money in the coming years.

You can steal these watches at pretty great prices right now.

I normally only buy Swiss movements. But a few of these watches that they put out are very nice with Miyota movements.

Even their tourbillon watches are very well built.

Great all around watches from waldhoff. I say buy a few and see how much they are worth I'm 5 years. Imagine owning an origy Rolex or Omega from the very early days......


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## StufflerMike

Yeah, don‘t listen to the haters. Manufaktur Waldhoff watches cost 1/12 of a Made in Germany Glashütte Original and offer 250% more quality. Same valid for AVIATOR, DeCave, SkyTimer, Cinewatch.


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## Nyumii

Anyone here have an imperial? I'd love to see more shots of those pieces! Still trying to get one for myself too!


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## Perseverence

Ed.YANG said:


> The general rule of "made In Germany" is more relaxed than "Swiss Made" for start.
> So... When this section of the forum is named as German Watch, is a timepiece have Made In Germany printed on dial, doesn't that qualifies as German Watch as the product ASSEMBLED IN GERMANY with FOREIGN COMPONENTS?


So, exactly how lax is "Made in Germany", since "Swiss Made" has an extremely low threshold?

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## DowningB

Not a hater but this isn't a German watch. It's a Chinese watch with "Made in Germany" slapped on the dial.

Life is short. Good luck and have fun. Enjoy your, ahem, "_Made in Germany"_ watch.


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