# Are Mont Blanc pens everything people say they are ?



## Alexcm123

Hello, I'm just looking for your opinion ms on Mont Blanc pens and if they are the best out there.

Thanks


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## ZIPPER79

oThe best out there? Not by a long shot. The "Best" is different for every pen owner and there are some custom pen makers that also have "Best" pens.
If you're confusing price with "Best" you're off course.




Alexcm123 said:


> Hello, I'm just looking for your opinion ms on Mont Blanc pens and if they are the best out there.
> 
> Thanks


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## gangrel

No, not the best. Most readily recognized? Likely. Clearest status symbol? YES.

Just staying in standard production, I'll put Omas and Pelikan over MB. (And I have all 3.) The Pilot Custom line, in the higher numbered (and somewhat more expensive) models generally, offer a nice selection of nib styles; my Custom 912 has a Falcon nib. That's not to be confused with my Pilot-Namiki Falcon pens...the nib on these is completely different from the falcon nib they offer on some other models. Ah, the joys of marketing.


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## jar

I would place Montblanc within the upper tier makers and maybe among the best but when I started reducing my accumulation the Montblanc pens were the easiest to let go of with no regrets.

What I doubt I would let go of would be my Sailor King of Pen models, any of my Nakaya, Danitrio or Eboya pens, any of my Sheaffer Stub nib pens, my Platinum Izumo pens, likely even my Pilot 845 (it's really starting to grow on me).


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## weissa

I started reducing my higher end pens, and the one I kept was my Meisterstuck 149. I picked it up for $50 at a consignment shop, so it's hard to get rid of. That being said, my Pelikan M805 had a smoother nib. It's a great pen, no mistake, but there are a lot of great pens at that level. 

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Seele

Alexcm123,

Montblanc pens are a little like Rolex watches: brands which are almost universally recognized as expensive, and as a result, a large proportion of people think they're the best, and the most expensive. That explains why there are so many counterfeit Montblanc pens and Rolex watches.

Like our fellow correspondents said, there are whole worlds beyond Montblanc and Rolex in their own respective areas. I feel sure that a Rolex owner might look down the whole length of his nose at, say, a Lange & Sohn saying it must be a crappy cheap watch because he hasn't heard of the brand, same goes for Montblanc as well. I still remember the time when Montblanc pens were not known to be something at all special and I bought a fair few from a department store when at high school, with my very limited budget! But they sure did a good job building up the brand and now they are no longer a pen builder, but more like a "luxury goods brand" - and got kicked out of at least one department store chain for refusing to sell their pens at their stationary department.

So, to answer your original question: Montblanc pens are now geared towards the collector market; while all of them are decent writers, their cost/performance ratio is not the best. Sure enough if you want the brand, purchase one and be happy with it. But if you want "the best" in quality and willing to pay (where the sky is the limit) there are options, and in case you want comparable or better performance regardless of the label, there are options as well.

Hope this is of some help.


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## huntflyer

Ditto to many of the comments - Mont Blanc pens are fine writing instruments. I own a ton of pens, some fountain, some rollerball. MB is, by far, the most recognizable. With that said, Mont Blanc has some more limited editions that are exceptionally nice pens, but for serious $. 

The nicest pen for the money that I own are Waterford. Check them out if you're willing to consider another brand. Exceptional quality for <$200.


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## jar

A thread without PRON is worthless.


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## Trel

To answer OP's initial question:
* Are Montblanc pens everything people say they are? *

The answer is, yes. People say they are brilliant writers, they are. People say they are overpriced, they are. People say they are more status symbol than pen, they are.

Now, to expound on this:
Montblanc pens occupy the high-end of the fountain pen hobby. That means they do not bother making inexpensive pens anymore. A company like Pelikan or Pilot or Sailor will happily sell a thousand-dollar pen next to a twenty-dollar pen, and that's great for them. Montblanc chooses not to.

Do Montblanc pens write well? Of course. Every pen above a certain price point writes well, and if it doesn't write exactly as you want it to, the company will happily adjust the pen until it does.

At the end of the day, you decide if, personally, you want this pen and if its price is commensurate to the value you place on ownership.

If you want a Montblanc and decide your want equals about 700 bucks, then check to see if you have 700 bucks free and go for it. If you want a Montblanc and tell yourself you could never pay that much for a simple pen, then you can purchase any number of other pens and rest easy knowing that you have something that writes nicely and you enjoy.


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## gangrel

MB chooses not to do so because they consider themselves strictly a maker of luxury goods. They're offering Image, as much as reality, with their pens. I think their watches are more substantive nowadays, crazy as that might seem. At least the ones with Minerva movements. For whatever reason, they don't strike me as pretentious with their watches, but man oh man, are they with the pens....

And yeah, I'll take a Pilot 845 in a heartbeat, over a 146 or 149. IF I could get a red FA especially. (HAH!) Love my 912 FA.

huntflyer: try a Pilot Custom Heritage 92. I like demonstrators, but IIRC there's also a black one. About $110-120 on Amazon. No, not as nice visually...quite a few Waterfords look quite nice, with (I'd bet) stamped guilloche patterns with applied lacquer...but the business end is just OK. It's apparently a JoWo...one of the two major nib suppliers in Germany...and it's plated steel. The Pilot uses 14k gold.


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## Uncle Miltie

The best? Probably not. But they're really good. I have one, and my wife has one. We like both of them. I have other pens too, recently a fine offering from Edison Pen Co. I like my Mont Blanc, and would buy another one.


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## jar




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## DateJustAGuy

Hi,

Pardon my ignorance, is Meisterstuck 149 a fountain pen.
I did some google and couldn't find a specific model 149.

Respectfully,
Srini


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## gangrel

In the current lineup, the 149 is always a fountain pen, yes. Just search on Montblanc 149.


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## KP97

Writing is subjective. Paper and writing surface matters.

Buy a Lamy Safari or something accessible and cheap. Bring it to a MB boutique and compare the two and decide.


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## MrCCartel

Mont Blanc has spent Decades creating the marketing image that a Mont Blanc Pen is a sign of Success, But it also happens to be a Damn Fine Pen. The 149 has created an image and Cult following unlike any other fountain pen in existence. To go against every other opinion here I do think Mont Blanc is the top of the luxury pen game, Tho there are other pen companies in this world that have some pens that seem just as good. Pelikan I think is at the top as well, namely the M800 & M1000. Maybe there is something about the pens made in West Germany that I just like.

Because Mont Blanc is probably the most widely known Luxury pen, they also must be the most talked about and therefore criticized. Don't get me wrong, there are people out there that will say Mont Blanc is the Best simply because they paid $1000 for a pen that the rest of the world knows is $1000, but you and know that is most likely NOT the case, and they are just looking for attention.

I think you should do your own looking, touching, feeling to see what you think the best pen for you is. through the years of different pen companies I know it doesnt get any better for me than a 146 to write my correspondence and a 149 to sign my name.


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## imaCoolRobot

MontBlanc are overpriced and only medium in quality..and WTF is Precious Resin?
Plastic!

I would prefer a Nakaya over a similar priced MB.
Personally, I use a Lamy2000. Beautiful and not too pricey.


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## GrouchoM

They're like Rolex: very good and *very *collectible. Like Rolex, their name is (nearly) synonymous with a functional luxury object. 
Once you spend over $50, all pen judgments are subjective. I have a 149 and like (not love) it. I owned a new 146 that had issues which MB couldn't remedy so they upgraded me to the 149. It works flawlessly but it's not better than my Danitrio Densho, my Edison Pearl, my customized Pilot Custom 743, ... in my eyes, of course. In fact, I haven't inked it in over 10 years.


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## gangrel

GrouchoM said:


> They're like Rolex: very good and *very *collectible. Like Rolex, their name is (nearly) synonymous with a functional luxury object.
> Once you spend over $50, all pen judgments are subjective. I have a 149 and like (not love) it. I owned a new 146 that had issues which MB couldn't remedy so they upgraded me to the 149. It works flawlessly but it's not better than my Danitrio Densho, my Edison Pearl, my customized Pilot Custom 743, ... in my eyes, of course. In fact, I haven't inked it in over 10 years.


I don't know of a gold nib you can find for $50. And VERY few production steel nibs work as nicely for me as a better gold nib. Of course, one can argue that's very personal...which is not to say subjective. The factors are objective; the personal aspect is which are important to you.


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## GrouchoM

The steel vs 14kt vs 18kt vs 21kt vs titanium vs ... battle for supremacy is VERY subjective. Many prefer firm nibs for everyday writing (after their initial explorations) and a properly tuned steel nib can match, and occasionally be preferred to, its "competition". If one is in search of a truly flexy nib, a vintage 14kt is their best option and many of these cost less, often much less, than 1/3 the price of a new 149; they may not be as regal looking but their nibs will dazzle in the right hands. Many of the top nibmeisters favorite pens are Parker '51's, vintage firm-nibbed pens that can be had for ≈$100.


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## Gunnar_917

GrouchoM said:


> They're like Rolex: very good and *very *collectible. Like Rolex, their name is (nearly) synonymous with a functional luxury object.
> Once you spend over $50, all pen judgments are subjective. I have a 149 and like (not love) it. I owned a new 146 that had issues which MB couldn't remedy so they upgraded me to the 149. It works flawlessly but it's not better than my Danitrio Densho, my Edison Pearl, my customized Pilot Custom 743, ... in my eyes, of course. In fact, I haven't inked it in over 10 years.


$50. Depends on who you are speaking to.

I have some 1/2 decent pens, Waterman, Carran D'Arche, Cross that I was given but don't have any interest in pens.

For me soening more than $5 on a rollerball becomes a luxury for others you're talking more than a BIC is luxury.


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## georges zaslavsky

I own several vintage 149s and 146s, my daily writer is a 1979 MB149, it is very very reliable and it writes well even beyond well on any paper surface. Sure, it is not better than my Omas or my vintage Parker pens but it is very well built and reliable.


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## gangrel

149's before around 1990 are supposed to be a completely different kettle of fish...one of the great writers. Their nibs were superb. If you can find one marked W. Germany (or is it West Germany?)...there's a very good chance it's worth pursuing. At this point, I think they were still a Gentleman's Fine Writing Instrument...not a luxury lifestyle accessory.

That could be said of quite a few other pens, tho. Nibs have progressively grown stiffer over the last 120 years, but you have to remember the progression: quill to dip to fountain pen. Quills are extremely flexible, so the first dip pens mimicked them. I suspect accountants and bookkeepers and other clerk-types probably pushed for less flexible nibs, to write quicker and cleaner. General-production flex probably died with the long, extended warranties like Sheaffer's Lifetime, or Waterman 100 Year. Flexible nibs are quite prone to cracking at the key stress points due to metal fatigue.

Sheaffer generally only did stiff nibs; flex nibs were always a special order. Parker Vacs are overwhelmingly more likely to be firm. 51's with any flex are *extremely* rare, but the shape just doesn't allow flex readily. Same with Sheaffer's conical nibs (Triumph et al) and the inlaid nib on the PFMs. Waterman's 100 Year Pens had great nibs, but they screwed up the celluloid. And that fiasco was pretty much the death knell for the firm, at least as a major player. And then, of course, ballpoints came into the picture, catching on strongly in the mid 60s.

FPs held on longer in Europe. And, I think, the culture of writing held on more. Expressive nibs remained in demand. Things changed at some point along the line...flex nibs have higher return rates. That might be a factor. They're harder to make. That's another. Demand might have slid to a degree. In the US, the market went completely stiff...the 51, the Triumph, the PFM. The change was slower in Europe.


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## bckuang

Like a lot of people have said, Mont Blanc is like the Rolex in the fountain pen world. They are solid and seen as a status symbol. At the same time, they are huge and can definitely stand out. I've tried a few MB fountain pens but none of them really wow'ed me, especially given their price point.


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## hector67

I am not a large collector of FPs and I am even less knowledgeable of the history and technical detais of writing instruments. Grangel and Jar are by far the two experts around this forum. I am pretty certain they are very respected in the FPN. 

To the OP, Montblanc pens are like pretty much every other luxury item: overpriced. And like every other luxury item, they are suposed to be overpriced, thats why they are luxury items. They are really good pens, they have classic and modern designs in their lineup and when you go LE, you can find some incredible pieces. What I like best about MB and for ME is wirth every penny spent is their customer service and boutique attention. I only have bought around 15 pens from my local boutique. Yes they all are LEs, but a small quantity for collector's standards. I get invited to cocktails, black and white events, collection presentations and so much more everytime I visit the boutique. For me, its worth the price.


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## vinayj009

I dont think so. Theyre good, decent pens buy way overpriced. Not worth the money at all. BUT the vintage MBs are amazing and quality instruments that arent overpriced, specially the student grade 3xx series. Try finding a nice 342 or 344 or even a 256 and youre going to love them.


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## RNHC

I am going to second what everyone is saying - modern Montblanc pens are excellent but overpriced for what they are, just like Rolex watches.


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## daveolson5

Maybe yes. My MB collection ranges from pens of their writers series to the representation of their fountain pens. I also have their previous issued "inexpensive" ballpoints and mechanical pencils. These date primarily from the sixties and seventies. An inexpensive MB ballpoint is a unique lever action mounted in the pocket clip. Slide the little lever, within the clip, forward to release the point and pull back on the lever to retract. Incredibly simple, yet the barrel is a beautiful deep reddish, with a touch of pink. Not to be confused with the popular, now discontinued Meiserstuck red. The top is brushed aluminum, I believe. My latest MB acquisition is from 1994 writers series, 'Oscar Wilde'. The matching 9mm pencil to that set.


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## turbineboy

They are good.... Well crafted.... And if you are used to MB and they match your style.... Sure why not.

As someone who has used MB pens for almost 30 years now, my complaint would be with their ridiculously expensive service..... Just like with rolex service.


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## pro2zon

I have a couple and love them but i have a couple cheaper pens that take Montblanc refills and that is where the value is. Their refills are the best in my opinion and the reason the write so well.


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## d__emerson

Older MBs, from there era when they were writing instruments designed for daily use, are very good pens. Some, such as the mid-60s modernist designs (12, 14, for instance) still represent good value. It's not to hard to purchase an MB, try it, and sell it on if it's not to your taste. As with Rolex, a preowned MB (149, 146) tends to hold its value.

Contemporary pens are slightly inferior to vintage, and tend to be overpriced.


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## Alexandero

The easiest way to think of montblanc pens are like, "they are the rolex of the pen world". Sure they are pretty great, but there are better options out there, like a patek to a rolex, and a custom urushi pen from japan compared to a montblanc, they are quite good in their own right, but cost quite a bit because of the quality and their perceived status symbol-ness


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## thesantini23

When I want a simple to use pen I choose a Montblanc. I otherwise prefer fountain pens for all other writing.


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## clarosec

I just sent my mother's 1980 MB 146 out for service. For the price of the service I could have had a brand new Lamy 2000. But... when it's not leaking from the collar and grip section, the nib is like butter. It's not my favourite nib, but it's definitely nice. Why spend $150+ on a service? It was my mum's daily user for over 30 years. So just like my grandfather's 1957 Omega Constellation Calendar, it's worth it to me to keep it running. 

Besides, for $150 I will have a working vintage MB. Even if I had to send it out 6-7x for repair I wouldn't hit the MSRP for a new one.

That being said I'd just as soon carry a Parker 75 or Pilot Vanishing Point. Or my cheap Cross or a Waterman or...

And that brings me to the next thing. MB pens, (fountain pens, anyway) in my experience, are sort of like Alfa Romeos. They look nice, they're expensive, when they work, they work well, but they also run into more than the average number of problems that you can't fix yourself. (3rd time in 30 yrs this pen has gone for a service - My 60's Parker 75? Never needed any servicing. Ever.)


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## Dougiebaby

The Montblanc - Rolex comparison is spot on. Neither is THE BEST in their product category to aficionados. But, both are SUPERB in their product category to aficionados. And to the general public, they are considered THE BEST.

I personally LOVE both and have both. Montblanc probably is my favorite "brand." I have a Montblanc wallet, 4 pair of sunglasses, cufflinks, cologne, and this pen ... The Skywalker Mystery Black fineliner. It writes so smoothly. The pen is black lacquer (not resin) with laser etchings and platinum clip/ring/nose. I love it. And, anyone who sees it does too.


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## BBCDoc

I have a Visconti Salvador Dali, not happy about the cartridge converter - doesn’t sit firmly (nib has to be screwed in periodically to help fit), doesn’t aspirate fully. The AD swears it is absolutely normal for Visconti. 

My MB145 on the other hand has none of these issues. I stand by the MB quality in this case


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bwvan

Fountain pens are a peculiar lot because each individual nib varies. When you get a nib that fits your writing style, there is no comparison, whether the pen be MontBlanc, Pelikan, etc. You really do need to try out the individual pen you wish to purchase to see how it writes for you. Even then, you won't know absolutely for sure, however, I've never had a pen get worse after writing with it; only better.


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## RNHC

BBCDoc said:


> I have a Visconti Salvador Dali, not happy about the cartridge converter - doesn't sit firmly (nib has to be screwed in periodically to help fit), doesn't aspirate fully. The AD swears it is absolutely normal for Visconti.


Italian pens are like Italian cars - beautiful but has reliability/quality issues.


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## RNHC

Dougiebaby said:


> The Skywalker Mystery Black fineliner. It writes so smoothly. The pen is black lacquer (not resin) with laser etchings and platinum clip/ring/nose. I love it. And, anyone who sees it does too.
> 
> View attachment 12837595


That is a classic archetype combo like bread and butter. You should post that pic in the Pen & Watch thread.


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## Rivarama

I think that it is difficult to say Montblanc is like Rolex as that is really too high a praise for MB which does not make pens of the same quality as they did in the past. Rolex on the other hand continually improves their products. You could say the brands are similar in brand recognition but that is really it.


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## RNHC

Rivarama said:


> I think that it is difficult to say Montblanc is like Rolex as that is really too high a praise for MB which does not make pens of the same quality as they did in the past. Rolex on the other hand continually improves their products. You could say the brands are similar in brand recognition but that is really it.


That is a fair point. Montblanc is no longer just a pen maker. It has become a luxury fashion brand that makes everything from cufflinks to briefcases. I guess it's only natural that the quality of its pens will go down since pen is not its main focus anymore.


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## Rivarama

RNHC said:


> That is a fair point. Montblanc is no longer just a pen maker. It has become a luxury fashion brand that makes everything from cufflinks to briefcases. I guess it's only natural that the quality of its pens will go down since pen is not its main focus anymore.


I would argue that the quality was going down before they started making other luxury goods and I would also point out that MB has a dedicated factory in Italy for leather goods and two dedicated production sites in Switzerland (Le Locle and Villeret) for making it's watches, meanwhile its pens are still produced in Hamburg. Each product category is made by a dedicated factory and shouldn't really be a reason for MB making cheaper pens. I am not saying MB doesn't make good pens, either, they are one of the best produced today.


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## RNHC

Rivarama said:


> Each product category is made by a dedicated factory and shouldn't really be a reason for MB making cheaper pens.


No but where the product fits into the company's overall strategy will dictate the allocation of resources dedicated to that product. Quality writing instrument business is a niche business in an increasingly shrinking market. Pens are in a product life cycle where it's more about cost optimizing. I doubt Montblanc is concerned about making quality improvements.


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## gangrel

There may be several reasons for the quality decline. Market conditions...18k nibs are required, and it's trickier to do a flexible 18k. Buyer changes...the market doesn't want flexible, they want reliable. Virtually ALL modern nibs are less interesting.

The comparison between MB and Rolex also relates to market share and market position. Both are perceived, to the casual observer, as THE top products, and the exemplar of Quality Product. Whether true or not. Whether better or worse than 50-60 years ago. That's a detail only relevant to the FPIS.


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## Rivarama

RNHC said:


> No but where the product fits into the company's overall strategy will dictate the allocation of resources dedicated to that product. Quality writing instrument business is a niche business in an increasingly shrinking market. Pens are in a product life cycle where it's more about cost optimizing. I doubt Montblanc is concerned about making quality improvements.


Montblanc is much larger and has much more resources now than at any time previously, with that said I should not speculate on the internal happenings at Montblanc because I have no information to go on.

As for the fountain pen market in general I can say that their quality is good enough. They don't need to use a fancy telescopic filling system and their nibs are good enough.


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## RNHC

Rivarama said:


> As for the fountain pen market in general I can say that *their quality is good enough*. They don't need to use a fancy telescopic filling system and *their nibs are good enough*.


Montblanc probably thinks the same - that their pens are good enough. No reason to devote additional resources to improve quality, feel, material, technology, etc. of their pens. Like you, I am not saying Montblanc pens are terrible at all. I also think Montblanc pens are pretty good. Pens are a mature product. Montblanc should and seems to be maximizing the revenue while maintaining the "good enough" quality with its pens.


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## Jade330i

While I never owned or used a MB fountain pen I have been using a MB LaGrand ballpoint for years. I wouldn’t say it’s the best but I’ve been very pleased with the writing quality as well as the fit and finish.


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## gangrel

RNHC said:


> Montblanc probably thinks the same - that their pens are good enough. No reason to devote additional resources to improve quality, feel, material, technology, etc. of their pens. Like you, I am not saying Montblanc pens are terrible at all. I also think Montblanc pens are pretty good. Pens are a mature product. Montblanc should and seems to be maximizing the revenue while maintaining the "good enough" quality with its pens.


What do you want them to improve? And how? As you note, the market's mature. The ONLY major improvements in the last 100 years have been in feeds...huge...and better filling systems. But what else is there? We're not talking anything complex here. The massive advantage vintage pens have, is in flex and semi-flex nibs. Nibs that allowed writing to be much more expressive. BUT...

--they're harder to write with...especially wet-noodle, very flexible nibs. Yes, I have a few.

--it is VERY hard to write *quickly* with a flexible nib.

--railroading is much more of a problem

--durability is an issue...excessive pressure can lead to a sprung nib. Longer term, flex nibs suffer a higher rate of cracking.

--PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEM. Not for the most part. They're a highly specialized segment...and absolutely separate from the business executive or management type, which is the MB target audience. If I want modern flex, I'll go Omas celluloids. I think they've got some true-flex nibs back into their lineup. If not, then I send it to Mottishaw. Or at a lower price point, Namiki Falcon (I have 4).

The big problem I have with MB is their restrictive distribution and *insanely* snobbish attitude. MSRP for a 149 is comparable to a Pelikan 1000, and I'm pretty sure they're very similar in size. LeGrand is comparable to a Pelikan 800. I *believe* they're similar size...could be wrong. The LeGrand might be closer to a 600. But MB pushes their elitist status, and actively opposes discounting. And THAT also means you won't see many titanium nibs, or flexible steel nibs. They can be done...likely better than a flexible gold one...but they have no cachet.

I've stopped suggesting anything European, tho, *unless* you're going for something like this:










The 800 Grand Place. The first version was 600-sized, in the Cities series. Got one. Gorgeous. Great writer too. But here...or a Nakaya urushi, or a maki-e...you are paying for the visual statement. If the intent is to focus on being a writer first, Europe does not offer anything to match Japan. LOVE my Pilot Custom Heritage 92's as writers. Love my Falcons as expressive writers. My Custom 912 for a larger pen.


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## Rivarama

If practicality is your aim then I don't think a fountain pen is ever the right choice because of the added maintenance the messier ink. There are very good flexible nibs that are easy to write with and reliable. The metal alloy used today for gold nibs is different than it was 70 years ago. I don't know if materials have changed or the process of forging, stamping, rolling has changed. I do have a flexible stainless steel nib 234 from Montblanc and it is definitely inferior to a gold nib. OMAS made ones during the same period and almost none of those have survived because of their poor quality. That said if you are going to have a rock hard gold nib there isn't much advantage over steel other than corrosion resistance. 

Montblanc is a very good company and if I want a new pen I much rather buy a Montblanc than a Pelikan. I was traveling through Europe and bought a MB Solitaire 146 fountain pen for 50% at an airport in Poland. Then in Berlin I went to the MB boutique and asked them to swap the M nib for an OM nib and they were able to do it for me over night. No chance of that sort of service with a Pelikan.

I do like older Pelikan pens though.


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## RNHC

gangrel said:


> What do you want them to improve? And how?


I like them fine. I think you took a phrase out of context which may have confused you. Unless your question was rhetorical, in which case, I am confused and you should ignore this response.


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## gangrel

RNHC said:


> I like them fine. I think you took a phrase out of context which may have confused you. Unless your question was rhetorical, in which case, I am confused and you should ignore this response.


No, that was in response to what you said, that I'd quoted. I read what you said as, they're resting on their laurels and not caring about improvement.


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## RNHC

gangrel said:


> I read what you said as, they're resting on their laurels and not caring about improvement.


Almost correct. The implication was that Montblanc feels their pens are good as it is now and do not feel the need for improvement. Not sure if not feeling the need for improvement is same as not caring about improvement. In the end, Montblanc pens are pretty good, perhaps not as good as before but that's arguable, as you've pointed out.


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## gangrel

There's probably some truth to that, too. Can a substantially better pen be built? Questionable. Would it be important in their market? Probably not. So they probably don't feel any strong need to improve.


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## debussychopin

I say this..

technically there are better pens (or any product out there , same concept) but...

if you buy into the prestige, marketing, popularity, status symbol, etc of owning something you always dreamed of (NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS > I DO THIS we are all human)

then buy it.
Buy one and you will perhaps shake nervously temporarily at the amount you paid, but after a few weeks, you'll forget the small amount of money, and all youre left with is the pure enjoyment of fulfilling one of the curiosities and hopefully , satisfaction, of owning one of your dream items.

Just do it once. It is better than always rolling around in bed frustrated and red-eyed by all the late night internet research trying to find the substitute, but that never fulfills it, and you always end up thinking "well, what if??"


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## barutanseijin

The best pen ever was the Parker 51. It was made to very tight tolerances -- that collector was not easy to make -- and the aerometric model is almost bullet proof. The 51 is quite ergonomic: not too small, not too big or too thick. One forgets about it -- which is how it should be. However, Parker's other pens were often not as well-made. I wouldn't say Parkers were "the best." Maybe the best advertised.

The best quality over an entire product range came from Sheaffer. For example, the 1970s Targa was a better made pen than those of its competitors. It's similar to the Parker 75, but it is more solidly built. It's also similar to the top line Pilot of the time, the Custom -- also an excellent pen -- but the Targa has nicer nibs. Or take a 1930s Balance or a 1920s flattop. The nibs are very thick, less prone to being thrown out of whack. Even the 1950s Sheaffers with the wacky filling systems have those superb Triumph nibs. And the cheapest Sheaffers like the No Nonsense were still quite functional, even fun. 

I suppose that if you consider piston fillers to be "the best", the MB146 might be the best pen. (The 149 is too big in my opinion. And my hands are bigger than yours.) The 146 is a bit sturdier than an OMAS, has better nibs than a Pelikan & _doesn't_ have a stupid bound-to-corrode section trim ring. Auroras are decent, but I prefer MB nibs to Aurora's. The closest competitor is the Lamy 2000 (by far the best pen in terms of value). 

That said, the modern pens are a downgrade in many respects. Vintage ebonite feeds give better ink flow than the modern plastic ones. 14k gold was a better alloy for pen nibs than the 18k used today.


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## Scooby921

barutanseijin said:


> That said, the modern pens are a downgrade in many respects. Vintage ebonite feeds give better ink flow than the modern plastic ones. 14k gold was a better alloy for pen nibs than the 18k used today.


Is this comparing modern MB 149 to vintage MB 149? No other pen in the Meisterstück lineup gets an 18kt gold nib.


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## briancruz

I had lots of MB and sold most of them or gave them away and kept only some truly special pens. If you are into fountain pens you will find many companies that produce equally great or even more interesting pens regarding material, filling system, writing characteristics etc. Their regular pens as such aren’t that much better than Sailor, Nakaya, Pilot,… but I’ll grant them at least two things: consistent quality and being the greatest marketing experts.


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## jar

Scooby921 said:


> Is this comparing modern MB 149 to vintage MB 149? No other pen in the Meisterstück lineup gets an 18kt gold nib.


Not quite. It often depends on which market the pen will be sold in. In France for example the nibs were almost all 18k since at the time French law required at least 18K to be called gold.


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## Scooby921

jar said:


> Not quite. It often depends on which market the pen will be sold in. In France for example the nibs were almost all 18k since at the time French law required at least 18K to be called gold.


Thus explaining why Waterman uses 18kt gold for their nibs. Thanks!


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## marklv1

Montblanc pens are just very well marketed status symbols. They are the Rolex of the pen world, in many ways. In terms of quality, they are good but not the best by any means - I would go for Pilot/Namiki and ST Dupont pens before any Montblanc.


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## barutanseijin

Scooby921 said:


> No other pen in the Meisterstück lineup gets an 18kt gold nib.


Most pen nuts prefer the 14k. They'll tell you 14k is springy while 18k is mushy.


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## Rivarama

I would argue that the 1960s 18c 149 nibs are some of the very best Montblanc produced at that time and since. It isn't as simple as 14kt is better than 18kt. I have a MB steel alloy nib from the 40s that is one of the best nibs I have ever used.


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## clarosec

Doesn't matter. I just restored my mother's 146 (a 1980) which had a gasket and collet problem. It wasn't the nib. Frankly, they're designed (or at least this one was) for a ballpoint writer. Some might say it's the spring in the nib, but I have cheap extra-fine Pilot and Lamy nibs that I need only touch to the paper as a left-handed push-writer and they flow across the page. The 146? Scratchy as hell unless you ballpoint it. Writing like a ballpoint it's lovely but it gives me hand cramps, which is why I switched to fountain pens in the first place. 

I much prefer my Parker 75, 45 and 51, Pilot VP, and even a cheap Pilot Metropolitan in a medium nib. 

I know I could have the nib tuned, but at those prices, you'd think they'd write out of the box. I demo'd some at an MB boutique and they were overly wet. I told them it wasn't right and asked for a pen from the box. Oddly, it started funnily and I asked them about it.

"It will tune up as you write with it."

In other words - 40 years of my right-handed mum makes her MB not really my pen!


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## Rivarama

Montblanc does tune their nibs at the factory unlike most other pen manufacturers but that doesn't mean they get it right every time. If it doesn't write properly then you should ask for a different pen or if you already bought it you can 1) send it to MB for a free tune up or 2) have the nib swapped for free.

There are nibs that are rock hard but they still don't write like a ballpoint so I am not sure what you mean.


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## WatchHound007

I like my Mont Blanc pens a lot, but I agree with the comparison to Rolex. Imho, the point of diminishing returns with luxury pens is even lower than with watches. Not that we have to, but it's hard to justify a $300+ pen, or a $10K+ Rolex. You are paying at least 50% for the name and status. Just my opinion.


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## Rivarama

You are paying market value. The name is worth a lot of money because these are two companies have have worked very hard to build their brand and reputation and the result of that is people want their products. If it is worth it to you or not is an entirely different matter. It is easier to get your money back out of a Rolex than pretty much any other luxury watch and the same is true for Montblanc; this is in large part because of the brand recognition.


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## 5959HH

One of the he main reasons I love my my Montblanc ballpoint pen(s) is the Montblanc broad refill writes better than any other on the market, bar none.


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## barutanseijin

Rivarama said:


> I would argue that the 1960s 18c 149 nibs are some of the very best Montblanc produced at that time and since. It isn't as simple as 14kt is better than 18kt. I have a MB steel alloy nib from the 40s that is one of the best nibs I have ever used.


Maybe the 1960s 18k nibs are better -- i haven't tried one. And it goes without saying that a well made nib is better than a not-as-well made 14k nib. Of course.

But all things being equal, the 18k isn't really an advantage, either.


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## barutanseijin

Scooby921 said:


> Is this comparing modern MB 149 to vintage MB 149? No other pen in the Meisterstück lineup gets an 18kt gold nib.


The modern 146s also have 18k nibs.


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## Rivarama

barutanseijin said:


> Maybe the 1960s 18k nibs are better -- i haven't tried one. And it goes without saying that a well made nib is better than a not-as-well made 14k nib. Of course.
> 
> But all things being equal, the 18k isn't really an advantage, either.


I am not saying 18k is an advantage. All I am suggesting is that you don't pick a nib based on what carat gold it is. I have had modern 14kt and 18kt gold nibs of the same size and made on the same machine from both Pilot and Montblanc and I can tell you there is no real difference in the way they write.


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## ganagati

Seele said:


> Alexcm123,
> 
> Montblanc pens are a little like Rolex watches: brands which are almost universally recognized as expensive, and as a result, a large proportion of people think they're the best, and the most expensive. That explains why there are so many counterfeit Montblanc pens and Rolex watches.
> 
> Like our fellow correspondents said, there are whole worlds beyond Montblanc and Rolex in their own respective areas. I feel sure that a Rolex owner might look down the whole length of his nose at, say, a Lange & Sohn saying it must be a crappy cheap watch because he hasn't heard of the brand, same goes for Montblanc as well. I still remember the time when Montblanc pens were not known to be something at all special and I bought a fair few from a department store when at high school, with my very limited budget! But they sure did a good job building up the brand and now they are no longer a pen builder, but more like a "luxury goods brand" - and got kicked out of at least one department store chain for refusing to sell their pens at their stationary department.
> 
> So, to answer your original question: Montblanc pens are now geared towards the collector market; while all of them are decent writers, their cost/performance ratio is not the best. Sure enough if you want the brand, purchase one and be happy with it. But if you want "the best" in quality and willing to pay (where the sky is the limit) there are options, and in case you want comparable or better performance regardless of the label, there are options as well.
> 
> Hope this is of some help.


I too would equate MB to Rolex, but would disagree with your assessment from there.

Sure, the uninitiated may hold the sentiments you describe, but that won't change the fact that both Rolex and Montblanc are truly workhorses. The two companies have established themselves as the pinnacle through both marketing and through performance. There are certainly 'better' brands, though, like rolex, you can purchase a montblanc and know that the pen will perform exceptionally well for a lifetime.

Purely anecdotal but my daily user, a meisterstruck 146, replaced my Nakaya....


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## gangrel

Rivarama said:


> I am not saying 18k is an advantage. All I am suggesting is that you don't pick a nib based on what carat gold it is. I have had modern 14kt and 18kt gold nibs of the same size and made on the same machine from both Pilot and Montblanc and I can tell you there is no real difference in the way they write.


That depends on what you're looking for. 14k is better for flex...which is not the same as soft. But there are very few true flex nibs in current production.


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## Rivarama

I've never seen a modern flex nib. Whatever the alloy was, nobody is using it anymore.


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## gangrel

Omas. Special edition only. Aurora 88 70th anniversary limited edition from last year...seriously considered one, but they're not cheap.

They're few and far between, but that's been true since probably the 30's, honestly, for US production. Maybe 40's. Sheaffer *rarely* did them even 100 years ago. Don't think Parker did many either, even in the original Duofolds, and by the Vac...yes, they were available but uncommon. Waterman and Eversharp still did them. Pretty sure Japan and Europe had them; NOT sure the frequency. Cuz flex nibs are a pain for most, and a pain for the manufacturer. They're much less durable, and therefore prone to catastrophic failure. Overflex? Press too hard? Spring the nib. Over time, there's metal fatigue...literally crack it.

https://www.vintagepens.com/FAQbasics/18Kvs14K.shtml

The problem is, gold is wonderfully malleable and ductile...but not elastic. You can increase that with treatments...it's just easier and somewhat more effective to do this with 14k. Obviously, the higher the gold content means you're starting from a worse position.

But yes, with virtually all modern nibs, it doesn't really matter. On the flip side? 18k also gives no real advantages, but it does cost more.


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## Rivarama

I've seen writing samples of the Aurora 88 70th anniversary edition and if you think that is a flex nib then we have different definitions. 

I will grant you that 14kt is probably superior for a really springy flex nib but again, modern nibs are not flexible.

The best 149 nib that I have ever used (and I have used a lot) was an 18c nib from the 50s. These were the most flexible nibs that Montblanc ever put on the 149...they aren't "flex" nibs but they were springier than pretty much everything that Montblanc produced after them. 

Again, you shouldn't pick a modern pen based on the type of gold the nib uses. Maybe avoid French and French market pens if you want vintage pens and don't like soft nibs. I have had a couple of Bayards from the 30s and 40s with 18kt nibs and I didn't like any of them.


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## jthole

Nothing wrong with Montblanc ;-)


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## Moerdn

I think they are very recognizable by a lot of people, have a lot of heritage and are good. However I would not necessarily say their are the best - this is very subjective from my point of view.


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## jthole

Moerdn said:


> I think they are very recognizable by a lot of people, have a lot of heritage and are good. However I would not necessarily say their are the best - this is very subjective from my point of view.


No pen is "the best".


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## huntflyer

Like most lux goods, it’s entirely subjective. No different than best car, best watch, etc.

Montblanc makes great pens. Some more so for real enthusiasts, some are just standard luxury fare. 


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## Jamesy87

Although I do like Montblanc pens, they are not necessarily the best. There are so many great fountain pen companies such as Pelikan, Sailors, Pilot, OMAS, Stipula etc.


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## jthole

Jamesy87 said:


> Although I do like Montblanc pens, they are not necessarily the best. There are so many great fountain pen companies such as Pelikan, Sailors, Pilot, OMAS, Stipula etc.


No, but they are also not as evil as some people claim.

And Italian pen companies can still learn a few things from Montblanc's customer service, in my experience.

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## Alarien26

Echoing what others have said - MB is great for recognition, well built, and feel great in (my) hand. I've also had excellent experiences with Waterman, for comparably less cash.


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## jthole

Alternatively, if you like German classic pens, then I would also recommend Pelikan. The M800 is no lesser pen than the MB149, in my opinion.

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## Rivarama

jthole said:


> Alternatively, if you like German classic pens, then I would also recommend Pelikan. The M800 is no lesser pen than the MB149, in my opinion.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


Pelikan doesn't offer as many nib options as Montblanc. The 149 nib is softer than the M800 and M1000 nibs I have used. The M800 is probably more comparable to the MB 146 as it is not cartoon sized like the 149.


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## jthole

Rivarama said:


> The M800 is probably more comparable to the MB 146 as it is not cartoon sized like the 149.


Make it the M1000 then. And especially vintage Pelikan nibs are very good, in my opinion. Vintage MB nibs as well, by the way.

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## Bert Reynolds

I myself prefer Pelikan and Monteverde fountain pens. However MB in my opinion are well built and their refills for the ballpoints are the best for me. Value? Well to most that is subjective just as are taste in watches. Everyone can tend to be brand loyal or snobbish to "inferior" brands. I know Rolex guys that hate Omegas and vice versa. Forget trying to convince them if off brands or whatever they think to be lesser brands. I believe in the if you like it wear it/buy it. Were it gets ridiculous is when the "collecting" becomes just accumulation and not appreciation. All the MB pens I have, I use and have scratches and dents and are probably not worth even selling on eBay. But I plan to keep them and use them until the stop functioning or they get lost or stolen.


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## clarosec

I should update this I suppose. I made an effort to write with the 146 on a daily basis - I am rehabbing my knee post-acl surgery so am keeping a journal and notes. Miracle of miracles, the nib has worn in. It's picky about paper (Rhodia/Clairefontaine or Quo Vadis only) but it runs well now. Still has a very narrow sweet spot when compared to my Pilots, Parkers, Lamys and Sheaffers, but you get used to it. I still wouldn't pay 585 euros for one new, I don't think.


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## Clinkinfo

RNHC said:


> I am going to second what everyone is saying - modern Montblanc pens are excellent but overpriced for what they are, just like Rolex watches.


By definition, something is "worth" what someone else is willing to pay. Therefore, as long as they sell, neither Rolex nor Mont Blanc are overpriced. You just don't value what those brands provide as much as others willing to pay more for their combination of quality, design, name, and service.


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## fracture.

Of course value is subjective, but forum is a place to share opinions. If we will all be objective we can close this forum, because there is nothing to discuss.

I thought this is known to every forum user.


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## BBCDoc

Have a gander at this new Purdey & Sons to decide...




























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## jar

BBCDoc said:


> Have a gander at this new Purdey & Sons to decide...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Another Richemont owned company these days.


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## gangrel

BBCDoc said:


> Have a gander at this new Purdey & Sons to decide...


Treat that as a Mont Blanc special edition. I'd fully expect the barrel to be wonderfully tactile...hand checquered walnut sounds awesome. But not $3500 worth of awesome.

And yeah, apparently the family members didn't want to continue in the business some decades back so they sold to Richemont. Not surprising for this kind of company, especially in such an extremely narrow, specialized market.


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## 3366carlos

Never tried one


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## robert921

Lots of great information here....I own a Montblanc but would like to look at a Waterford as well.


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## PrisonEscapementWheel

No. A Montblanc (or any luxury pen) isn't going to make your chicken-scratch any more legible. Unless you're a pen obsessed weirdo (and some of us are) a _meisterstuck_ looks no different from a $1 Chinese disposable. If you want to buy a LE as "art" you can use and appreciate, sure, go ahead. If you want to impress clients/your boss/women/internet trolls a pen is just a waste of money.

Montblanc does have very nice fountain pen ink in a variety of colors and the price isn't any more expensive than Pilot's Iroshizuku premium inks.


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## Nokie

I have a few and enjoy them.

They don't correct my poor penmanship, but they are fun to write with.


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## RPF

Of course not. MB makes a good pen. Recognizable and presentable. Suitable as gifts. But best? There are plenty of options that cost more, are better made, or offer dimensions and features unavailable within the MB portfolio.


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## LA-TokyoGMT

Funny this thread should pop up the same week we just picked up a Mont Blanc pen for my wife. Plenty of people have already answered, but I'll chime in as well. I don't think it's that special. To me, it feels pretty dumb to spend $450 or whatever it was on a pen, but my wife figures it will make her look spiffy at work, so there you are. It's a status symbol. I personally don't find much difference in writing quality between the MB and a nice Pilot pen, but then again, I'm a caveman who probably just can't appreciate the difference.


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## cinealta

IMO no. I prefer the ST Dupont offerings. Especially in Chinese lacquer etc.


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## georges zaslavsky

I have several vintage 146s and 149s, I enjoy them


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## Monocrom

Used to sell MB pens. Nothing wrong with them, except they are too fragile. Back when they offered fully S.S. models, I'd advise customers to buy those instead of the resin versions. Those are just too thin-walled. If you get a resin MB, just realize it's very delicate and you're horribly overpaying simply for the MB name.


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## nagov

Montblanc is that brand you know before you learn anything about Fountain Pens. Then you get into the hobby and find other offerings you like better and believe Montblanc is overrated. Only with time do you come back to Montblanc and actually appreciate them for what they are. They have excellent, extremely consistent nibs. They offer one of the few factory OB3 nibs still. Their pens have been iconic symbols for so long that the design has been copied by other companies and occasionally surpassed too. The 146 and 149 are excellent pens and are actually reasonably priced in the high end pen market compared to some other brands. If you don't buy pens (or watches) and don't understand the pricing, it seems expensive, just like Rolex.


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## Monocrom

Difference with Rolex is that watches are complicated machines. Fountain pens aren't. No way is a 149 even remotely worth close to its asking price. You're literally paying for the MB name and the status symbol aspect associated with it. Nothing to do with getting an actual quality writing instrument.


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## Happy_Jake

I agree with Momocrom. There is a whole world of Pelikan, Sailor, Montegrappa, so many others that you can experience for 1/2 the cost or less even. Strat there.


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## 14060

When I began collecting pens Mont Blanc was the only European brand I had heard of, then I discovered Omas, Aurora, Montegrappa and Pelikan. I never did buy a Mont Blanc as there were so many other interesting brands available.


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## gangrel

Happy_Jake said:


> I agree with Momocrom. There is a whole world of Pelikan, Sailor, Montegrappa, so many others that you can experience for 1/2 the cost or less even. Strat there.


Have you priced a Pelikan 800/1000 or Sailor King of Pens recently, relative to an MB? List pice on a Montegrappa ****onale is 1200; Extra 1930 is 1100, just to name 2 models. Not sure what Montegrappa's line structure is at this point. (I did just get a ****onale Caramel. Pretty pen, nib's decent but not overly flexible by my lights. What it does do nicely is line weight variance, so it's a good nib for an ink like Iroshizuku.)

Mind, there are good buys out there...mostly from Japan right now. But there are 2 aspects you've got to keep separate. #1: compare apples to apples across brands, so compare MB with the other brands' flagships. #2: is the flagship pen really worth its serious premium?

The killer is point 2. Regardless of brand, IMO the answer is No.


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## salem747

I have one, it's a fine pen. I wouldn't pay $400 for one, this was a gift.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Happy_Jake

Yikes
I’m used to rollerball model pricing

I had no idea they were that kind of money


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## Monocrom

14060 said:


> When I began collecting pens Mont Blanc was the only European brand I had heard of, then I discovered Omas, Aurora, Montegrappa and Pelikan. I never did buy a Mont Blanc as there were so many other interesting brands available.


It's unfortunate that Omas went out of business awhile back.


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## Monocrom

gangrel said:


> Have you priced a Pelikan 800/1000 or Sailor King of Pens recently, relative to an MB? List pice on a Montegrappa ****onale is 1200; Extra 1930 is 1100, just to name 2 models. Not sure what Montegrappa's line structure is at this point. (I did just get a ****onale Caramel. Pretty pen, nib's decent but not overly flexible by my lights. What it does do nicely is line weight variance, so it's a good nib for an ink like Iroshizuku.)
> 
> Mind, there are good buys out there...mostly from Japan right now. But there are 2 aspects you've got to keep separate. #1: compare apples to apples across brands, so compare MB with the other brands' flagships. #2: is the flagship pen really worth its serious premium?
> 
> The killer is point 2. Regardless of brand, IMO the answer is No.


You're forgetting.... Those other brands are sometimes discounted. MBs are rarely so. Bit of patience, knowing where to look, not being too picky about body color, etc. I managed to snag a New In Box Pelikan M1000 for 45% off. Not used. Not a factory 2nd. No blemishes, no issues. Even got the Extra Fine nib I wanted. The catch? Had to order it overseas from a dealer in China. One with an excellent reputation. Had to wait quite a bit for it to arrive. And that deal only applied to the less popular all-black version with gold trim. No green finish on the pen at all.

Not my first Pelikan pen, and I actually use all the fountain pens in my collection. From my free Noodler's eye-dropper only Charlie pen, to my Pilot Maki-e pen. Yes, the latter is a genuine work of Art. (With price-tag to match.) Yes, I actually ink it up and use it.

Unfortunately, the asking-price on MBs is going to be firm. They truly are more fragile than the competition. And if you save money by going used, you risk realistically getting a fake. In some cases, one of the better ones out there.


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## gangrel

Yes, that is a core problem. MB chooses to maintain an elitist position, so their distribution control is particularly tight. They're not that good. It's tricky, tho, comparing a gray market price to a legit dealer price...altho that still means Pelikans can be had at 20-25% off MSRPs. 

Push come to shove, and price aside...MB has an excessive air of pretentiousness; they're bought as status markers. Pelikans are writers.


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## Simon

I am a long time passionate pen collector - mainly British vintage - Conway Stewart & Parker.

MB 'were' great pens - the vintage 146's & 149's in celluloid are outstanding - I have a couple MB's from the 1940's and they are like new. I think MB made superb pens until the 80's and the move to precious resin. 

Today they are overpriced and precious resin is easily shattered (dropped one on soft floor from a few feet and it snapped). 
Their nibs remain top drawer, but their quality IMHO not so, and their price is outrageous. 
Veblen goods. Pelikan blows them out the water - if I only had one pen it would be a Pelikan M800 (600 if smaller hands - though I use the M1000) 

Pelikan M800/600 is the Rolex Sub of pens - the M1000 is the Rolex Deepsea


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## Happy_Jake

+1 on the Pelikan 600/800 Line. The real deal top shelf article.


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## barutanseijin

It's exactly the same story with Pelikan. Pelikan through the mid-1960s were great: durable, attractive pens with expressive nibs. The modern ones are pocket jewlery & status markers, just like Montblancs. Other than looks, they have nothing in common with the vintage Pelikans.

Every single modern Pelikan nib i've had needed extensive tuning and/or grinding to write properly. Once they write, they are merely smooth, with modern blob tipping that produces the same line in any direction. Dull. 

The rest of a modrn Pelikan won't be any more robust than MBs. In fact, they're worse. The section trim ring -- whose only function is to add bling -- will corrode. (If yours hasn't yet, just give it time.) And one of my m800 fell apart in my pen case without so much as a bump. Ridiculous. Service from Chartpak? Also ridiculous.

There all sorts of fountain pens i use for "serious writing", from Indian eyedroppers to Lamy Safaris or 2000s to Parker 51s. The Pelikan m800 isn't one of them.


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## Happy_Jake

barutanseijin said:


> It's exactly the same story with Pelikan. Pelikan through the mid-1960s were great: durable, attractive pens with expressive nibs. The modern ones are pocket jewlery & status markers, just like Montblancs. Other than looks, they have nothing in common with the vintage Pelikans.
> 
> Every single modern Pelikan nib i've had needed extensive tuning and/or grinding to write properly. Once they write, they are merely smooth, with modern blob tipping that produces the same line in any direction. Dull.
> 
> The rest of a modrn Pelikan won't be any more robust than MBs. In fact, they're worse. The section trim ring -- whose only function is to add bling -- will corrode. (If yours hasn't yet, just give it time.) And one of my m800 fell apart in my pen case without so much as a bump. Ridiculous. Service from Chartpak? Also ridiculous.
> 
> There all sorts of fountain pens i use for "serious writing", from Indian eyedroppers to Lamy Safaris or 2000s to Parker 51s. The Pelikan m800 isn't one of them.


Thank you for this
I have also found many expensive pens underwhelming

I have a LAMY safari and also a 2000 and I keep going back to them

Not familiar with the Parker 51

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Monocrom

barutanseijin said:


> It's exactly the same story with Pelikan. Pelikan through the mid-1960s were great: durable, attractive pens with expressive nibs. The modern ones are pocket jewlery & status markers, just like Montblancs. Other than looks, they have nothing in common with the vintage Pelikans.
> 
> Every single modern Pelikan nib i've had needed extensive tuning and/or grinding to write properly. Once they write, they are merely smooth, with modern blob tipping that produces the same line in any direction. Dull.
> 
> The rest of a modrn Pelikan won't be any more robust than MBs. In fact, they're worse. The section trim ring -- whose only function is to add bling -- will corrode. (If yours hasn't yet, just give it time.) And one of my m800 fell apart in my pen case without so much as a bump. Ridiculous. Service from Chartpak? Also ridiculous.
> 
> There all sorts of fountain pens i use for "serious writing", from Indian eyedroppers to Lamy Safaris or 2000s to Parker 51s. The Pelikan m800 isn't one of them.


I have to disagree. I've owned several Pelikan pens over the years, starting in the mid. 1990s, and I just don't see that degradation of quality you've mentioned. Not a single one of my Pelikan fountain pen nibs needed tuning. The only negative thing I can say about them is what others have noticed. That the nibs tend to put down broader lines than they should. My Pelikan M1000 is an Extra Fine, but the line I get is easily a Fine if not awfully close to crossing over to a Medium. other than that, zero issues with the nib. I can live with this well-known quirk of Pelikan pens. There are well-known nib meisters who can grind a nib down to put forth a finer line for those who absolutely can't live with it.

As for that nib on my M1000, sorry; but taking into account my extensive pen collection that includes everything from a free Charlie Fountain Pen that came with a bottle of Noodler's ink to my two gorgeous maki-e pens (one from pilot and one from Platinum).... There is a HUGE difference in how the Pelikan nibs (especially the M1000) perform compared to all the others. no, it's not just smoothness that other pens from other brands are sometimes capable of re-producing.

As far as status symbol goes, no one outside of the pen community has even heard of Pelikan. Literally everyone KNOWS Montblanc. But Pelikan? Not one person part of the general public will even have a clue. So how could it even remotely be a status symbol brand among them? Ask the general public and a few will recognize the name.... confusing it with the hard-shell and foam carrying-case maker called "Pelican" instead.


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## hookey

Happy_Jake said:


> "Thank you for this.
> I have also found many expensive pens underwhelming
> 
> I have a LAMY safari and also a 2000 and I keep going back to them
> 
> Not familiar with the Parker 51"
> 
> You should check out eBay for a Parker 51. I've bought three so far this year via eBay at really fair prices; certainly well below what vintage pen traders are asking for. Try one and you may find you love it. I've also bought a couple of vintage Pelikan fountain pens so far at a good price.
> 
> By the way, the Lamy 2000 fountain pen is indeed a joy to write with.


----------



## f2002q

I have two Montblanc 149 pens, and frankly I don't use them any more. I find them finicky. I got hooked on Japanese fountain pens, specially Pilot Custom 823 and Sailor 1911 Large. Those pens are nothing fancy or "Frou-Frou" but they start right away, even if left unused for a while. They are nice, wet, juicy writers and the quality is excellent for the price.


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## 53jd

I see the MB pens to be more of a status symbol, rather than a quality writing instrument. Out of the 10 various brands pens I have, I'd have to pick my favorites as my 2 ST Duponts.


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## Monocrom

53jd said:


> I see the MB pens to be more of a status symbol, rather than a quality writing instrument. Out of the 10 various brands pens I have, I'd have to pick my favorites as my 2 ST Duponts.


But that's the thing.... What's the point of having a "status symbol" that doesn't have the quality to go with it? Makes no sense. Here's a pen that lacks quality, costs hundreds of dollars, but it's a status symbol. WTF?!


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## Tsujigiri

Monocrom said:


> But that's the thing.... What's the point of having a "status symbol" that doesn't have the quality to go with it? Makes no sense. Here's a pen that lacks quality, costs hundreds of dollars, but it's a status symbol. WTF?!


Montblanc pens absolutely do not lack quality. I'd put them up against any other top tier pen manufacturer. It seems that within the pen collecting community a lot of people have sour grapes about the brand purely because they are expensive. I've heard a lot of ridiculous myths about Montblanc on pen forums, such as the notion that the 149 costs only $25 to manufacture (anyone can easily verify by weighing a nib that the raw material costs are higher than that). The shattering resin one is another one that's very popular and originates from a very small bad batch of material. Sure, you can still break their pens if you're rough with them, but that's true of any other pen as well. A lot of people seem to subject Montblanc to much higher scrutiny than any other brand.

The comparison between Montblanc and Rolex is a very good one. Both make high quality items that have become publicly recognizable benchmarks, backed by strictly controlled supply and advertising. They both keep their value relatively well because of how well-known they are. And while both of them are well-made and safe choices, they face competition from less known brands that can offer similar features for a lot less. The issue is more with the market than the brand; most watches and pens are easy to find at a discount, but both Montblanc and Rolex are rarely discounted.

As for the pen itself, I have a 149 that's served me very well over the years. There aren't really any other oversized piston filler pens out there with as rich of a history. I also own the Pelikan M1000 which is another favorite and a great value for the money, and my favorite nibs are made by Sailor. But there's something that makes me keep reaching for the 149. I think it's kind of hard to understand without owning one, but there's a certain gravitas to their pens.

On a side note, I didn't realize OMAS was gone. Good riddance, their pens were absolute garbage. I owned an Arte Italiana from them that had the piston fall apart within a week. OMAS took 6 months to send me back another defective pen. Even without those issues, the design was terribly unbalanced, the machining was rough and unfinished in places, and the plating on the nib was all over the place. The cap didn't post because it was poorly designed and they cheaped out by putting a compact sized nib in an oversized body. I have no idea how they were able to charge as much as Montblanc for a product so poorly made.


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## Monocrom

Sorry, but I used to sell MB pens and can easily afford them. Price isn't the issue. And as for the shattered pens, it wasn't a bad batch. MB uses far less resin material in the construction of their pens than their competitors do. That's why they shatter if dropped on a hard surface. Take any MB pen, unscrew it. Do the same with that of any comparably priced competitor's resin pen. Now just shine a flashlight down the barrels and check the wall thickness. There is a definite difference. 

You have so many folks who come up with all sorts of fool-proof methods to tell the fakes from the real thing. Shop I used to work at, there were only two methods. One, where the serial number was "hidden." And the other one was to do the very same thing mentioned above, but with a known, genuine MB pen from the case. Even the best fakes used too much resin. The walls of the barrel were thicker. So ironically one of the best ways to tell the difference is that the fakes used more resin and were unintentionally more durable. They might crack if dropped but they didn't shatter. 

And I'm sorry but there's no comparison in terms of quality from an MB made today, compared to the ones made back when the company was a couple of decades old. It's clear that MB nowadays is simply trading on the reputation of their name. With the exception of their yearly Limited Editions which are made with quality and attention to detail, modern day MB pens are far from worth the asking price. Personally, I like their Star Walker line and will be adding one of those to my collection. But I'm realistic about what I'm getting.


----------



## Ben_hutcherson

I have two Mont Blancs-a Model 22 from the 60s and a 146 from the early 90s(old enough to still say "W. Germany" on the cap). 

I like both of them. The 22 is an interesting looking pen that-aside from the star on top-doesn't scream "Mont Blanc" the way the way some of the better known models(146/149) do. It's a fine that's truly fine, and there's just enough springiness in the nib to make it interesting to write with. My biggest issue with it is that it's too small for me to use comfortably. 

The 146 is a very different writing pen. Of course, even though it's smaller than a 149, it still looks like one and is a generously sized pen. The nib is both good and pretty unremarkable-it's very smooth and wet, but is a "nail"-I suspect this is by design given the target audience for MB with this series pens. I've had someone look at it and tell me it's likely a fine, but it writes like a medium to my eye/feel. I honestly can't complain about it, and do use it all the time. 

I have two Pelikans-one a 205 and the other a 400. These are, of course, the same basic pen aside from the nib material and it's really too small for me, although I did get use to the size when I wrote all the time with the 205. That particular 205 had a terrible nib out of the box-it was very dry and rough. I inadvertently had it fall out of my pocket uncapped, and before spending $35 on a replacement I figured I'd give straightening it myself a try. The result was a nib that wrote just to my taste, was smooth, and best of all had enough spring in it that I could get some line variation out of it. Unfortunately, that pen is semi-retired because-after about 5 years of using it daily-it developed a nearly invisible crack in the barrel(small enough that I had to use the "wet finger" test to find it) that would cause it to leak and fill the cap up with ink any time it was capped. Pelikan wanted $80 to fix it, and considering that new old stock ones were going for about that on Ebay, I planned to just buy another and swap the nib over. That has yet to happen. BTW, I bought it as a fine, and it acts like one. 

My 405 is a more recent purchase. It's certainly a nice looking pen, but I have yet to fall in love with it. The nib is-again-marked fine-but it writes wider than the steel nib on my 205. It is also very firm. There's nothing really WRONG with the pen-I just don't use it. 

I have a love-hate relationship with Lamy. Their styling isn't to my taste. My 2000 needs to make another trip back because the section on it has broken for a second time...and even though they offer a lifetime warranty it's a bit irritating to have to send it back seemingly every couple of years. I love my Studio Palladium, which has a wonderfully smooth and wet 14K nib that-surprisingly enough-will even flex a bit. 

I have a bunch of pens that don't get the time they should, but that's just my thoughts. I'll continue to use my 146 daily for the forseeable future.


----------



## Tsujigiri

Monocrom said:


> Sorry, but I used to sell MB pens and can easily afford them. Price isn't the issue. And as for the shattered pens, it wasn't a bad batch. MB uses far less resin material in the construction of their pens than their competitors do. That's why they shatter if dropped on a hard surface. Take any MB pen, unscrew it. Do the same with that of any comparably priced competitor's resin pen. Now just shine a flashlight down the barrels and check the wall thickness. There is a definite difference.
> 
> You have so many folks who come up with all sorts of fool-proof methods to tell the fakes from the real thing. Shop I used to work at, there were only two methods. One, where the serial number was "hidden." And the other one was to do the very same thing mentioned above, but with a known, genuine MB pen from the case. Even the best fakes used too much resin. The walls of the barrel were thicker. So ironically one of the best ways to tell the difference is that the fakes used more resin and were unintentionally more durable. They might crack if dropped but they didn't shatter.
> 
> And I'm sorry but there's no comparison in terms of quality from an MB made today, compared to the ones made back when the company was a couple of decades old. It's clear that MB nowadays is simply trading on the reputation of their name. With the exception of their yearly Limited Editions which are made with quality and attention to detail, modern day MB pens are far from worth the asking price. Personally, I like their Star Walker line and will be adding one of those to my collection. But I'm realistic about what I'm getting.


If you're judging the quality of a pen by its wall thickness, then I don't know what to tell you. I suppose Piagets are low quality because they have thin lugs as well? Also you're going to be sorely disappointed if you get an early Montblanc and expect it to handle more abuse than a modern one. Pens from that era were made of a brittle material called ebonite and had very thin walls to reduce their weight. Any high quality pen needs to be treated with care, and Montblanc's pens are no exception. Cared for properly they'll last a lifetime like any other pen.

Just like with watches, different people will have different priorities with pens. Different brands choose to focus on different features. You can knock Montblanc for making pens that function poorly as prybars, but could also knock Pelikan for their generic nibs, or Lamy for the finicky grip section on the 2000, Sailor for the low capacity of their pistons, etc. They're all still great pens for other reasons. Point being, you might not like the design decisions Montblanc has made and their products might not fit your needs, but it's a real stretch to zero in on one design choice you don't like and claim that they're low quality.


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## clarosec

Tsujigiri said:


> If you're judging the quality of a pen by its wall thickness, then I don't know what to tell you. I suppose Piagets are low quality because they have thin lugs as well? Also you're going to be sorely disappointed if you get an early Montblanc and expect it to handle more abuse than a modern one. Pens from that era were made of a brittle material called ebonite and had very thin walls to reduce their weight. Any high quality pen needs to be treated with care, and Montblanc's pens are no exception. Cared for properly they'll last a lifetime like any other pen.
> 
> Just like with watches, different people will have different priorities with pens. Different brands choose to focus on different features. You can knock Montblanc for making pens that function poorly as prybars, but could also knock Pelikan for their generic nibs, or Lamy for the finicky grip section on the 2000, Sailor for the low capacity of their pistons, etc. They're all still great pens for other reasons. Point being, you might not like the design decisions Montblanc has made and their products might not fit your needs, but it's a real stretch to zero in on one design choice you don't like and claim that they're low quality.


Um, I think your Piaget comparison is apt because that's what Monocrom just said. MB "quality" is in the thinness and lightness of the barrel. I like my new Lamy 2000 better, though.


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## Monocrom

Tsujigiri said:


> If you're judging the quality of a pen by its wall thickness, then I don't know what to tell you. I suppose Piagets are low quality because they have thin lugs as well? Also you're going to be sorely disappointed if you get an early Montblanc and expect it to handle more abuse than a modern one. Pens from that era were made of a brittle material called ebonite and had very thin walls to reduce their weight. Any high quality pen needs to be treated with care, and Montblanc's pens are no exception. Cared for properly they'll last a lifetime like any other pen.
> 
> Just like with watches, different people will have different priorities with pens. Different brands choose to focus on different features. You can knock Montblanc for making pens that function poorly as prybars, but could also knock Pelikan for their generic nibs, or Lamy for the finicky grip section on the 2000, Sailor for the low capacity of their pistons, etc. They're all still great pens for other reasons. Point being, you might not like the design decisions Montblanc has made and their products might not fit your needs, but it's a real stretch to zero in on one design choice you don't like and claim that they're low quality.


Well, I'll be happy to provide more details. Back when they were first called Colorado Pen Co., before switching to Paradise Pens, and later switching back to Colorado Pen Co; we typically had to deal with angry customers. On average about once every 2 or 3 weeks, same scenario. Irate customer, accidentally dropped their MB on the ground. It shattered. Not cracked, not scratched up. Shattered. We sold pens from MB's competing brands. Literally never had that issue. Except once.

I worked in store #30 inside Roosevelt Field Mall. We were literally better off than every other brick & mortar CPC store in America for one reason.... There was an MB store literally upstairs from us. Whenever we sold an MB pen to a customer who came back mad as hell.... Yeah, we'd tell them we could process the return for them, how long the turn-around time would be, etc. Or, they go head upstairs and literally deal with MB directly. Guess which option the now no-longer-angry-at-us customers always chose.

How common was the above? Happened enough times that the manager of the MB store stormed in and demanded to know why we were sending _our_ angry customers upstairs to them! Our manager very calmly pointed out that they were MB customers who were not happy with what they had gotten from MB. He was informed that we would continue to send *their* customers upstairs to them each time this occurred. MB Boutique manager was not happy, but he knew he couldn't do anything about it.

As far as what to say about the lack of wall thickness compared to literally every other pen brand out there, how about admitting the obvious; that MB makes fragile pens on purpose. Let's face it, they know this issue exists and has existed for many years now. And yes, I do know that certain pens require more care than others. But MBs are literally the only brand whose resin models literally shatter from even a short drop onto a hard surface. Cracking and scratching is what takes place from the competition.

Let me give you a perfect example what the main issue is, and why it is so incredibly screwed up. Years ago, I was dating a young woman whose brother was a bit of a jerk. One day we were at an outdoor mall. Not your typical one though. This one catered to high-end customers. He was bragging about his MB Solitaire. What a great bargain it was. And how sad that I'd never be able to afford something like it. I didn't bother telling him about my Pelikan 800 at the time. He was nothing to me, and even she barely tolerated him for the sake of her parents. Later on, he drops it on the sidewalk. It did not shatter. he was freaking out regarding the scratch it now had.

I told him not to get upset. After all, his was fake. He got angry and demanded to know why I said that. Two things. One, he's a jerk and I didn't care to spare his feelings. Though I didn't mention that. I told him that had it been the real thing, it would have shattered; instead. he was not happy. I pointed out that the outdoor mall had an MB boutique, and that I'd be happy to pay any and all repair costs on his MB pen if the boutique verified it was real. He agreed to this. Of course it wasn't real. Real ones shatter.

There is something horrendously wrong when one of the ways you can tell the real thing from a fake is because.... the fakes are made better than the real thing. Now if pens from competing brands also shattered on contact with a hard surface, then okay; fair enough. It would be an across the board thing. But it's not. I saw numerous shattered MB pens while I worked there. Number of shattered pens I saw from literally every other company combined? One. As I recall, it was a Waterman that was purposely tossed due to its owner getting angry about something and taking it out on the pen.

With the Star Walker I mentioned earlier, I know what I'm getting. But that is very different from a customer who spends hundreds of dollars, thinking he's getting quality he can rely on for decades. Then finding out the hard way that what they have clipped to the top of their shirt pocket is the status symbol equivalent of an egg.


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## CaptainCustard

I am not really sure the fact that a pen shatters if you drop it is a sign of poor qualify. 

I have owned and used MB pens since the early 1990s, at least 25 years. I still have and still use those pens, although I have purchased more over the years. Other than servicing and flushing etc, and an annual brasso polish, they still work fine.

I have managed not to ever drop one of them on the roadway. 

Perhaps if I were a delivery driver getting customers to sign for deliveries all day long at the side of a truck, I would use a Biro.


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## CaptainCustard

The one thing MB have going for them that you cannot replicate: Image.

In the early 1990s I was working across Asia, managing the raising of capital via Eurobond issues. Large suns of money, hundreds of millions at a time. I had a very small part to play, and my “management” efforts involved managing the documentation.

On acceptance of the deal, we had to get a series of signatures from the borrowers. Really purely symbolic. 

One day one of the team pulled out some expensive pen no one had ever heard of. Probably a pen that is lauded on this site.

Afterwards he was told never to use it again. The only pen the Asian clients recognised was a MB. They thought anything else was cheap.

I used to fly up via Singapore, and I was asked to pick up a handful of MB pens each time we concluded a deal. We would put them on the table for the signing. They would be used by the client, then they would usually put them in their jacket pocket, as another part of the bribe. 

If they were left on the table the secretaries would scramble to grab one. 

My first MB pens came this way. 

That image is worth a lot.


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## Tsujigiri

Monocrom said:


> [...]
> 
> With the Star Walker I mentioned earlier, I know what I'm getting. But that is very different from a customer who spends hundreds of dollars, thinking he's getting quality he can rely on for decades. Then finding out the hard way that what they have clipped to the top of their shirt pocket is the status symbol equivalent of an egg.


I get what you're saying about the pens being more fragile when it comes to hard impacts, but you're missing the point. Everything in a design is a tradeoff; Montblanc uses a more scratch resistant resin and a lighter construction that comparable pens, on the assumption that people won't throw their pens around like darts. For people who take care of their things, that's a worthwhile tradeoff. I can understand why a Montblanc might not be the best choice for the careless or accident prone, but you've tried to apply that to a discussion about quality and it just doesn't work. Are you really going to say that a G shock is higher quality than a Patek because you can drop it? I would think someone on a watch board of all places would understand that. And MB does make quality pens that you can rely on for decades; plenty of people can attest to that. You just have to... you know, not do anything stupid with it.



CaptainCustard said:


> [...]
> 
> That image is worth a lot.


Really interesting story; living in the states I just assume that no one knows what a Montblanc is. Your experience seems to sum up why they're so loved and hated at the same time.


----------



## Monocrom

Tsujigiri said:


> I get what you're saying about the pens being more fragile when it comes to hard impacts, but you're missing the point. Everything in a design is a tradeoff; Montblanc uses a more scratch resistant resin and a lighter construction that comparable pens, on the assumption that people won't throw their pens around like darts. For people who take care of their things, that's a worthwhile tradeoff. I can understand why a Montblanc might not be the best choice for the careless or accident prone, but you've tried to apply that to a discussion about quality and it just doesn't work. Are you really going to say that a G shock is higher quality than a Patek because you can drop it? I would think someone on a watch board of all places would understand that. And MB does make quality pens that you can rely on for decades; plenty of people can attest to that. You just have to... you know, not do anything stupid with it.


Sorry for the late reply. Never got the notification of new posts in this topic. I can understand trade-offs. But there is no trade-off here. Using less/thinner resin in the construction of their pens, doesn't make them more scratch resistant. Not at all. A little bit lighter than the competition? Sure. But it's not as though you're walking around with mini lead pipes from the competition in your pocket. No, unfortunately this is a cost cutting measure from MB. Use less material, save more money.

As far as the customers go, yes I agree with you that careless or clumsy customers would be better off buying more robust pens from different brands. But I had to deal with quite a few of these customers. The vast majority were corporate professionals. Intelligent, organized, far from clumsy or careless. Even an intelligent person can accidentally drop a pen they're holding in their hand. Have one slip out of a shirt pocket when they bend over. Normal everyday situations that can happen to anyone.

I'm sorry but when a company makes very fragile objects, that is indeed very relevant to a discussion of quality. And that is exactly what MB has been doing since I started selling them back in the mid 1990s. It's unfortunate, but nothing has changed today. Well, no; hold on. Back then, MB did offer several models in 100% stainless steel. Especially their Solitaire line. And if we had a customer who was kind and friendly, wanted to buy an MB for say a son, daughter, niece, or nephew as a college graduation gift, we'd do our best to steer them towards the all-stainless steel models. Those never shattered. Worst thing was a very tiny poch mark if they fell. Unfortunately those all-S.S. models are no longer offered. And no, I'm not going to compare a Patek to a G-Shock. Nor would I compare an MB to a Platinum Preppy. I would compare one to a Pelikan 800 or 1000. And honestly, there's no comparison. We did sell a surprisingly large number of Pelikan pens. And I mean the higher-end ones. Number of horrendously angry customers who came in with their shattered 800s or 1000s = Literary zero. And I'm sure owners of such pens have accidentally dropped theirs' as well at some point in time.



> Really interesting story; living in the states I just assume that no one knows what a Montblanc is. Your experience seems to sum up why they're so loved and hated at the same time.


Oh, credit where it's due. MBs marketing is beyond phenomenal. EVERYONE in America has heard of MB. Literally everyone. I'd even say forget about their gorgeous lines of watches. It's their marketing department that is easily their greatest asset.


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## Monocrom

CaptainCustard said:


> I am not really sure the fact that a pen shatters if you drop it is a sign of poor qualify.


I'd have to say it is, if that sort of thing never happens with pens made by competing brands. And I mean those that compete in the very same price and luxury tier. Shattered high-end luxury writing instruments simply do not happen to any other brand except MB.


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## CaptainCustard

Monocrom said:


> I'd have to say it is, if that sort of thing never happens with pens made by competing brands. And I mean those that compete in the very same price and luxury tier. Shattered high-end luxury writing instruments simply do not happen to any other brand except MB.


And running your Ferrari into a wall at 100k usually leaves it as a write off.

I dont get the point of the argument here. Pens are not made to be dropped. The fact that some brands may survive is incidental.

As I wrote earlier, I am a banker not a delivery driver, getting signatures at the roadside. If I was a delivery driver I would use a biro.


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## gangrel

Drops that destroy an MB...especially a 144, which at least was notorious for this...are more often ignored by pens made from more resilient...but less glossy...materials. I heard repeatedly, back in the day, that MB included glass in the blend. The glass gave it the gloss, but it's what also made it brittle. Whether that's still true...or perhaps it's never been true...I don't know, but it was a comment we used to hear reasonably often on the Zoss list.

Drops happen, even in office or home settings. Pen's sitting on your table...it's under a magazine, you grab the mag, brush the pen...OOPS! A 144 may well crack from a 1 foot drop onto a hard floor. Right now I've got a Peli 150 with a vintage Soennecken nib, and a Pineder with its new resin...both have slipped in a manner like this. No issue.


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## CaptainCustard

gangrel said:


> Drops that destroy an MB...especially a 144, which at least was notorious for this...are more often ignored by pens made from more resilient...but less glossy...materials. I heard repeatedly, back in the day, that MB included glass in the blend. The glass gave it the gloss, but it's what also made it brittle. Whether that's still true...or perhaps it's never been true...I don't know, but it was a comment we used to hear reasonably often on the Zoss list.
> 
> Drops happen, even in office or home settings. Pen's sitting on your table...it's under a magazine, you grab the mag, brush the pen...OOPS! A 144 may well crack from a 1 foot drop onto a hard floor. Right now I've got a Peli 150 with a vintage Soennecken nib, and a Pineder with its new resin...both have slipped in a manner like this. No issue.


The 144 had its share of design problems, including the plastic thread that secured the body section to the nib section on the early models. This was a real weakness and the plastic thread would sheer if the pen was stressed - sat on in a trouser pocket, or in a jacket pocket and folded over a seat back.

Montblanc fixed this in later 144s, moving to a brass threaded section.

The other 144 problem is that the whole pen is quite narrow. This goes against conventional engineering principles - wider is stronger. Forcibly screwing the body section onto the brass nib section thread = "crack" and a split up the body section.

The wider Montblanc bodies like the 145, 146 and 149 are stronger.

But the weaknesses of the 144 (which is no longer in production and hasnt been for many years) does not excuse the simple fact that a pen is a fragile delicate instrument, not intended to to be dropped.

If you pay big money for a MB pen, you should treat it with respect and care.

I have had Montblancs since 1993. I travelled constantly with them. I have never dropped or broken one. (I have never dropped an cellphone either).


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## CaptainCustard

Listen people, I accept that some of you HATE Montblanc pens, and that the only thing you can really argue is "it breaks if you drop it".

I can only suggest that you sell your watch collection and buy a Soviet Army Peoples Collective Yaraslawl Cast Iron special.

These were built as trench fighting pens, capable of withstanding a 50 megaton blast, hammering nails into log hut walls in Siberia, and writing prose to your wife.

As an alternative apparently Smith and Wesson make a tactical pen for combat and police work. I must confess in my army days I used a dirt cheap biro.


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## gangrel

So if a dozen pens can do something where the MB fails, we're not to call out the MB? 

The bigger issue? MB thinks they're FAR more than they are. We're not saying they're bad per se...but they are NOT any better, IMO, than several other top-drawer brands. They're about the only pen maker to push the whole "prestige" or "lifestyle" aspect. They share "Rolex hate" in the sense that they're the layman's answer to "what's a good..." for pens...but IMO Rolex has the technical chops to justify it. In what manner is MB technically better than, say, Pelikan or a higher-end Pilot...generally, those with 10 or 15 size nibs? 

If you want something to impress your doctor or lawyer buds...you go MB. If you want a writer? MB is *one* choice, but there are MANY others.


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## jar

Monocrom said:


> I'd have to say it is, if that sort of thing never happens with pens made by competing brands. And I mean those that compete in the very same price and luxury tier. Shattered high-end luxury writing instruments simply do not happen to any other brand except MB.


Gotta say that statement is simply nonsense. There have been lots of really poorly made pens over the years and once you have enough experience you realize that MB products are nearer the median than the extremes.


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## Tsujigiri

Monocrom said:


> Using less/thinner resin in the construction of their pens, doesn't make them more scratch resistant. Not at all. A little bit lighter than the competition? Sure. But it's not as though you're walking around with mini lead pipes from the competition in your pocket. No, unfortunately this is a cost cutting measure from MB. Use less material, save more money.


Sorry I meant the material seems to trade off shatter resistance for scratch resistance. The thinness is more about the weight. I can certainly see why some people see that as a less than ideal design decision, but it seems to work well for a lot of people. A little weight is noticeable if you're writing for hours at a time. I did slightly prefer my 149 to my M1000 for long writing sessions because it was just a little lighter and a little thicker (which was more comfortable for my hand). There's no way that they made the resin thinner as a cost cutting measure, though. Look at the 149 nib next to the M1000 nib; the 149 one is unusually thick and requires significantly more gold to make than the M1000 one. If they were cutting corners it would make more sense to cut down on the very expensive gold material used rather than the inexpensive resin. Also I could be wrong about this, but I believe pens in this price bracket are turned from blanks? Making the walls thinner would be more expensive in that case due to the additional machining time and care required. I don't see any flashing (indicating it came straight from a mold) on my 149 like I see on some Japanese pens, so it must have had at least some lathe work.

For what it's worth, I keep my pens in a leather case when I'm not using them. That seems to be enough protection to avoid breakage the times I have dropped a pen.


----------



## Tsujigiri

gangrel said:


> They share "Rolex hate" in the sense that they're the layman's answer to "what's a good..." for pens...but IMO Rolex has the technical chops to justify it. In what manner is MB technically better than, say, Pelikan or a higher-end Pilot...generally, those with 10 or 15 size nibs?


If you're talking "technically better," you've got that backwards. Montblancs are a little more than comparable products, but in the same ballpark. Rolexes, on the other hand, are technically inferior to competitors like the Casio F91W that offer more features and better accuracy for a price a few orders of magnitude less. High end pens and watches are both luxury products that you can't really apply a cost benefit analysis to, but if anything watches are a far more extreme example.

Since you asked, though:

-MB nibs tend to be thicker and have larger iridium tips than comparable pens. Gold and iridium are expensive.
-MB nibs are made in-house, which is more expensive to do than to outsource it like many other companies do.
-The components on a MB are very solid. Compare the operation of the filling mechanism on a MB piston to a Pilot Custom 823, for instance.
-The finish on MB's is impeccable. They don't have any mold lines or uneven transitions often seen on other pens. The threads are also smoother than most.
-MB is supported by a worldwide network of boutiques that makes service easy and accessible.
-MB resale value is higher than competitors due to recognition generated through marketing.
-It would be hard to argue that there's a design out there as iconic as the Meisterstuck. You do pay for good design.

Most pen companies have something that they do really well; MB is no exception. Likewise, each company has areas they don't do as well in. I don't see a lot of people claiming that Pelikan, Sailor, Pilot, etc are junk because of the one thing they don't do as well, though.


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## gangrel

Tsujigiri said:


> If you're talking "technically better," you've got that backwards. Montblancs are a little more than comparable products, but in the same ballpark. Rolexes, on the other hand, are technically inferior to competitors like the Casio F91W that offer more features and better accuracy for a price a few orders of magnitude less. High end pens and watches are both luxury products that you can't really apply a cost benefit analysis to, but if anything watches are a far more extreme example.
> 
> Since you asked, though:
> 
> -MB nibs tend to be thicker and have larger iridium tips than comparable pens. Gold and iridium are expensive.
> -MB nibs are made in-house, which is more expensive to do than to outsource it like many other companies do.
> -The components on a MB are very solid. Compare the operation of the filling mechanism on a MB piston to a Pilot Custom 823, for instance.
> -The finish on MB's is impeccable. They don't have any mold lines or uneven transitions often seen on other pens. The threads are also smoother than most.
> -MB is supported by a worldwide network of boutiques that makes service easy and accessible.
> -MB resale value is higher than competitors due to recognition generated through marketing.
> -It would be hard to argue that there's a design out there as iconic as the Meisterstuck. You do pay for good design.
> 
> Most pen companies have something that they do really well; MB is no exception. Likewise, each company has areas they don't do as well in. I don't see a lot of people claiming that Pelikan, Sailor, Pilot, etc are junk because of the one thing they don't do as well, though.


--A Rolex and an F91 are not the same class of product, even if they share the same core function. That's like comparing a melamine dinner plate to a Royal Doulton. 
--How much gold is in a nib? Saw a post from FPN that noted most nibs run around a gram...and nibs are 14 or 18k. Tipping is similar. Granted, iridium is also extremely expensive but how much is there in the tip? You also have to be careful with sizes to ensure a valid comparison...clearly, a 149, Peli 1000, or Pilot #15 is gonna be larger, heavier, and therefore more expensive than a Pilot #5 or MB 144. 
--Sailor, Platinum, and Pilot-Namiki all make their nibs in-house. I believe Pelikan does as well. But this point feels much like the in-house vs. ebauche watch debate. There's nothing inherently wrong with buying the nib from a separate supplier, if the nib's good. Nakaya's an example, altho their roots are in Platinum anyway.
--The torpedo design is iconic to MB? Sheaffer developed the basic shape with the Balance in the 1920's or so.


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## CaptainCustard

gangrel said:


> So if a dozen pens can do something where the MB fails, we're not to call out the MB?
> 
> The bigger issue? MB thinks they're FAR more than they are. We're not saying they're bad per se...but they are NOT any better, IMO, than several other top-drawer brands. They're about the only pen maker to push the whole "prestige" or "lifestyle" aspect. They share "Rolex hate" in the sense that they're the layman's answer to "what's a good..." for pens...but IMO Rolex has the technical chops to justify it. In what manner is MB technically better than, say, Pelikan or a higher-end Pilot...generally, those with 10 or 15 size nibs?
> 
> If you want something to impress your doctor or lawyer buds...you go MB. If you want a writer? MB is *one* choice, but there are MANY others.


Again: over 25 years of MB use (note the word "use" not ownership) and I have never dropped one.

If I was in the habit of dropping them I would use a $1 biro.

So other pens can do what a MB cannot - is it in the job spec? Was it a requirement?

If getting dropped on a concrete floor IS part of the job spec buy one of those military spec metal bodied pens and be done with it.

If its not part of the job spec - buy a MB.


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## CaptainCustard

Tsujigiri said:


> I don't see a lot of people claiming that Pelikan, Sailor, Pilot, etc are junk because of the one thing they don't do as well, though.


^^^^^^. THIS ^^^^^^^^

I am always amazed at the hate and jealousy created by MB.

I had a friend tell me the other day that they were junk. I asked him to recommend other pens.

Both of his recommendations have gone out of business. Thats just great when you want parts.

Omas was one of them. Great to pay top dollar for a pen no one has heard of, and has gone bankrupt. True you may be able to dive a main battle tank over it, but who cares when you cant get them serviced.


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## Max Dog

Over time my Montblanc's grew on me, and the few I have among many are my favorite writers. Their nibs all have character and a unique personality that can be good or bad for some. If you desire absolute consistency from one nib to another, a Lamy Safari or other brands that mass stamp produce them for low cost might be a better choice.


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## 369

Great brand with amazing quality. "The best" is definitely not  Before buying a pen read, check videos on you tube and learn. I bought a Waterman few months ago and I'm really happy with it and I use it every day. 

Inviato dal mio LYA-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## BBCDoc

My last full-price purchase from MB was the UNICEF solitaire ballpoint. Desired it for a Long time, but never pulled the trigger until it was pulled from regular display this year. 

So far, it has drawn admiration from colleagues and customers - the alphabet motif has proven very attractive. 

On the flight between Auckland and Melbourne, I lent to a grateful neighbouring passenger to complete his immigration forms...I was a bit concerned with how Long it took him to complete that form...

I was in the Audemars Piguet boutique yesterday and the manager there also complimented the pen and I let him play with it.

Though I have other fountain pens, this particular pen has been worth the purchase, I love the weight and the feel, and the admiration. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 20chip

I own a Montblanc, it was my grandfather's. Not sure if I would buy one given the current price on them. With that being said, they are nice. I prefer the Lamy Tipo in the background for daily use.


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## Dany Habib

I have quite a few Mont Blanc pens and i must say that although they are not the best in terms of writing and quality, what makes them unique is the story behind the limited edition series such as Patron of Arts and Writers


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## City74

I'm a fan


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## rr82

Alexcm123 said:


> Hello, I'm just looking for your opinion ms on Mont Blanc pens and if they are the best out there.
> 
> Thanks


I believe they are very recognizable and for sure luxury items. However, it's clear that the term best depends on your writing style and preference. Since nibs, inks, weight and size all play a big role on writing with pleasure, you must first try to find your own unique set of preferences and later find the brand that suits you. IMO, Montblanc is gorgeous, but not the best.


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## johare

I love mine but if you’re just looking for a good writer you could probably do better for the money. I like the brand and the design of them so to me the extra money is worth it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tribonian

As other comments have said,an MB is a status symbol which is also a very good pen. Personally I happen to have a strong preference for modern Japanese, particularly Nakaya. I prefer urushi to MB's resin, and Japanese nibs suit my style of writing. Vintage Eversharp nibs also suit me very well. There is no "best" pen, because writing style, hand size and shape etc vary so much from person to person.


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