# Vintage ZENITH Square Automatic



## Joss (May 30, 2007)

Bought today a vintage ZENITH square in 18k gold from a client of me. The watch has a automatic movement and is in a good shape. Incredible plexy, I love it. Does someone of you have more informations about this watch and the worth it has (appr.) ? Thx, Joss


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

We'll need to see the movement to help. It is kind of hard w/o knowing what it is. As well, you can go to the links I posted above and go to the Joseph Watches site and see if you can match something by visual appearance.

Cheers!

Dan

PS -- Wear it in good health!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Very nice! Compare it to the New Vintage 1965 with Cal. 670 "Elite". This one will almost certainly have a 25X2 PC Calibre where X is anything from 2 to 7, probably 4 upwards. The differences between the calibres are minor.

Wear it in good health!

Hartmut Richter


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## Joss (May 30, 2007)

Thx for your help, Dan and Hartmut. I will go today to my watchmaker and open the watch. It is from 1965, because there is a personal signature on the back. photos coming soon.


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## Joss (May 30, 2007)

Here are the photos. The movement looks very fine, a great piece of "haute horlogerie". And the back is a heavy piece of fine gold. Do you know the exact name of the movement and is it a manufacture-movement from ZENITH ?


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

As I said, a Cal. 25X2 PC. The precise identity of the X depends on the fine adjustment on the balance, beat frequency and the way the rotor is mounted. The precise calibre code should be under the balance wheel (the picture is too imprecise for me to tell).

The Cal. 25X2 series was, I believe, brought into the Zenith company by Martel, the chronograph specialists who also designed the "El Primero" after they were bought up in 1960. It was the backbone of the Zenith non-chronograph production in the sixties and early seventies. The last one was the 2572, the last automatic movement designed by Zenith before the quartz crisis and the later development of the "Elite".

Hartmut Richter


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## Joss (May 30, 2007)

Thank you, Hartmut. I opened the case again, it is no problem. The movement is a 2532 PC, another number on the movement is 6040640.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

If you write off to Zenith ([email protected]), they will probably give you a precise date. Which will, I presume, be the date when the watch was completed or left the company (same as my piano) - these things aren't created completely in one day!

Hartmut Richter


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## yourronny79 (Jan 21, 2009)

Joss said:


> Bought today a vintage ZENITH square in 18k gold from a client of me. The watch has a automatic movement and is in a good shape. Incredible plexy, I love it. Does someone of you have more informations about this watch and the worth it has (appr.) ? Thx, Joss


hi joss-lovely watch, on 2003 zenith relauched this watch for 10000 euros, 250 pieces only! Have you managed to find out approximate valuation for this? I have a same watch-any other interesting information?


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## Acme (Jun 15, 2008)

The new version I don't know.

I have a very similar Vintage as shown on the photos (2542PC from 1967, 18Kt) in very nice condition. I bought that over USD500 several years ago (based on current HUF/USD). 

Look on E-Bay for similar watches, can give you a good estimate.

It all depends of course (box, guarantee card, original strap+buckle, NOS condition etc. give higher value, but flaws can make it less, and time is most the important. If you want to sell in like a week, be prepared for a lower price.

Zenith claimed my version to be built in Besancon, France.

Regars: Acme


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## yourronny79 (Jan 21, 2009)

Acme said:


> The new version I don't know.
> 
> I have a very similar Vintage as shown on the photos (2542PC from 1967, 18Kt) in very nice condition. I bought that over USD500 several years ago (based on current HUF/USD).
> 
> ...


Joss watch is not an eBay item, it's called "timeless luxury" by zenith in 2003 relaunch. It's a rare luxury vintage watch which is exceptionally rare to find. Ps: only luxury products can be relaunched as luxury - it's simple marketing principe


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## yourronny79 (Jan 21, 2009)

ps: sorry for typos and abrupt post in earlier one, still getting used to this silly Iphone keyboard


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## Acme (Jun 15, 2008)

Sorry but I can't follow You. The watch in question is the 2003 relaunched version? Then I can't help You, I don't know that one.


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## yourronny79 (Jan 21, 2009)

this exact version of joss's old model is relaunched by zenith in 2003 as an expensive limited edition. This "specific model" seems to be a very rare vintage watch!


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## Acme (Jun 15, 2008)

Well, can be. I have a very similar watch, and have seen similar watches. Do You know how many examples were manufactured of the old model? Perhaps e-mailing Zenith the case No. on your watch will give a result.


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## yourronny79 (Jan 21, 2009)

Hello all, 
Sending picture of Old Classic 1965 Zenith for any interesting thoughts/insights:

(a) See attached image for the Old Classic 1965 Zenith. Movement number: 5689276. The case itself has a number engraved: 9816392

(b) Relaunched Zenith-limited 2003 edition (RRP ~10,000)

has anyone seen/heard about this unusual movement number? The old and new watch looks identical (what a timeless design!!)


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Hard to say, but I would guess that the older watch uses one of the later variants of the 25XX P or PC movements (kind of really hard to tell from the photo). The newer watch uses an Elite movement, but I forget which one.

You are correct. That design is sure timeless!

Cheers!

Dan


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Zenith are doing a series of "New Vintage" watches - vintage designs with new movements. That one was the "New Vintage 1965". The old one has, as Dan stated, a Cal. 25X2 PC (probably a 2532 PC - the number is under the balance wheel) whereas the newer one has a Cal. "Elite" 670 (the central second hand version with date).

Hartmut Richter


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## clubspl (Mar 29, 2009)

yourronny79 said:


> Hello all,
> Sending picture of Old Classic 1965 Zenith for any interesting thoughts/insights:
> 
> (a) See attached image for the Old Classic 1965 Zenith. Movement number: 5689276. The case itself has a number engraved: 9816392
> ...


I have a very simular watch made by Stowa , 25 rubis Automatic square, about the same year, but I cant find any info on it or pricing info either.

actually no Idea how much to ask, it works flawlessly


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

clubspl said:


> I have a very simular watch made by Stowa , 25 rubis Automatic square, about the same year, but I cant find any info on it or pricing info either.
> 
> actually no Idea how much to ask, it works flawlessly


Well, working flawlessly or not, I must say that 500 bucks is rather over the top and you won't get many serious bids from informed enthusiasts at that price. I have a Stowa (round watch) from the sixties and it has a PUW (Pforzheimer Uhrenwerke) Cal. 260. I believe that older Stowas also had some Swiss movements. Either way, they didn't make their own calibres and used generic movements so that they don't command as high a price as Zenith & Co.

If you didn't know it already, Stowa (name came from the founder Walter Storz, initial syllables taken and then inverted) is now owned by Jörg Schauer who also has his own watch line. It is unlikely but just about conceivable that he might want the watch for his Stowa museum (I know that he is currently looking for old Stowa chronographs). Approach him and see what he says - the worst thing he can say is: No.

Hartmut Richter


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

clubspl,

I removed your craigslist link as this forum is not to be used for the sales of items, related to Zenith or otherwise.

Take care,

Dan


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Thanks for pointing that out, Dan - should have tweaked earlier! I definitely need my holiday....!!

Hartmut Richter


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