# Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn’t hack



## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Hello,

I’ve noticed that when I pull out the crown on my Flieger Klassik 40 with ETA 2824-2 my seconds hand sometimes doesn’t hack (stop). Some times it does, some times it doesn’t. It’s a no date version, so the watch has only 1 crown position.

Is something wrong with my watch or am I doing something wrong? I’m gentle when pulling out the crown, but I do always pull it out to the fullest.

Any input is highly appreciated, thank you!


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2018)

I don’t know how gentle you do it but if you pull it out normally you should feel the click. If it doesn’t hack even after it pops out with click, then I’d assume there is something wrong with it


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Yes, it clicks and crown pops out, but seconds hand doesn’t stop. The watch is still quite new (2 months old), and I haven’t noticed this before because I set it once a month. 

Is this something worth sending the watch back for a check under warranty?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

fracture. said:


> Is this something worth sending the watch back for a check under warranty?


Yes. The chance is that the spring for the setting lever has just slipped out of position or the stop lever just does not sit correctly on the pivot.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Thank you, I'll contact Stowa then.


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## kentjb (Dec 26, 2017)

My handwind Flieger with no date does the same. It hacks most of the time but sometimes it doesn't. Found a similar thread about the issue: https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/eta-2804-2-hacking-weirdness-1729370.html


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Thank you for the link. People seem to report as this being normal, not only for Stowa, but also for watches at $10k+. Interesting.

I also have the same issue as reported in that thread that crown positions aren’t very well defined. Sometimes it works perfectly, but sometimes it feels like it pulls two positions out. Very strange.


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

fracture. said:


> Thank you for the link. People seem to report as this being normal, not only for Stowa, but also for watches at $10k+. Interesting.
> 
> I also have the same issue as reported in that thread that crown positions aren't very well defined. Sometimes it works perfectly, but sometimes it feels like it pulls two positions out. Very strange.


No,

not so strange. 
Probably your watch is driven by a movement with calendar complication and the _'two positions crown'_. But, as there is no date window, you consider there only one postion to exist. 
My recommendation: 
Check the crown's position and you will see that you can pull out the crown to two different positions. Inner one to adjust the -invisible and non-existent- date disc, outer one to adjust time,

Volker


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Hi Volker, thanks for your suggestion, but Stowa has actually removed the second crown position normally used for date, so the watch wouldn’t have phantom positions.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Well, the watch started running WHILE I was setting the time. Now I know it really does need attention. Such a shame, was really hoping it would work out of the box new.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

fracture. said:


> Hi Volker, thanks for your suggestion, but Stowa has actually removed the second crown position normally used for date, so the watch wouldn't have phantom positions.


Or, they said they did ;-) . I have a no-date Marine Automatic which most clearly has crown positions 0, 1 and 2 (different movement).


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

After a week, still no reply from Stowa.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

Had the same issue with my Stowa Flieger almost exactly a year ago. Got a rather non-reassuring answer from Stowa when I contacted them. Here's what I emailed to Stowa:

_When I went to set the watch today, I had difficulty getting it to hack initially. I wound the watch just enough to get it running (about 7 twists of the crown), then pulled the crown out to set the time, but the seconds hand was still moving even though it should have stopped. I know that I had the crown all the way out to the time setting position because I was able to move the hour and minute hands, and yet the seconds hand was still moving. I pushed the crown back in, then pulled it out again, and the seconds hand stopped that time, but then started moving again as I adjusted the hour/minute hands. Pushed the crown in again, pulled out again, and hacking seemed to work correctly. I carefully tested it again 2 times or so, and it is indeed hacking correctly now. So I'm not too worried, I'm sure there is a logical explanation, but I'm no expert on watches.

So my question is, what could cause this? Obviously the ETA 2824-2 movement is designed to hack, so I am a little concerned that I have now witnessed a malfunction with the hacking capability. Is this something I should be concerned about? I'm hoping there is a logical explanation to put my mind at ease. So I would appreciate if you or someone at Stowa with technical expertise could read about what I have experienced and get back to me about it._

Here is what they replied to me:

_The assessment currently is that either something is broken, but then the hand would never stop, or the crown is not pulled out completely in some cases, causing it to not stop. He tells me that it will either always work or always NOT work, if the appropriate lever is broken. There should be no in between, or sometimes this, sometimes that, so we definitely think there's nothing wrong with the movement and it's a fine stage of the crown that looked like out but wasn't when the hand didn't stop._

So basically they told me nothing was broken without ever laying eyes on the watch, and even though I absolutely witnessed an abnormality with the movement.

I've since moved on to Archimede for my Flieger needs and couldn't be happier.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

SJR3 said:


> Had the same issue with my Stowa Flieger almost exactly a year ago. Got a rather non-reassuring answer from Stowa when I contacted them. Here's what I emailed to Stowa:
> 
> _When I went to set the watch today, I had difficulty getting it to hack initially. I wound the watch just enough to get it running (about 7 twists of the crown), then pulled the crown out to set the time, but the seconds hand was still moving even though it should have stopped. I know that I had the crown all the way out to the time setting position because I was able to move the hour and minute hands, and yet the seconds hand was still moving. I pushed the crown back in, then pulled it out again, and the seconds hand stopped that time, but then started moving again as I adjusted the hour/minute hands. Pushed the crown in again, pulled out again, and hacking seemed to work correctly. I carefully tested it again 2 times or so, and it is indeed hacking correctly now. So I'm not too worried, I'm sure there is a logical explanation, but I'm no expert on watches.
> 
> ...


You have got to be joking...that's completely unacceptable.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

fracture. said:


> You have got to be joking...that's completely unacceptable.


Not joking at all, unfortunately. But really, I'm so much more satisfied with my Archimede Fliegers and overall service and experience that I haven't looked back.

I did, however, have ambitions of buying a Stowa Antea Klassik 41, but I've since let go of that idea after the off-putting experience with my Stowa Flieger.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that my Flieger also arrived with an imperfection in the crystal, as I documented in this thread: https://www.watchuseek.com/f36/brand-new-flieger-klassik-dust-nick-under-crystal-4580049.html

Stowa, to their credit, rectified that issue in a timely manner. It ended up being a dust particle, or at least that's what they told me. But after receiving the watch back, I immediately had the issues with the movement not hacking. So two different problems with the one watch was enough to turn me off to the brand for good. You occasionally see examples on this forum of Mr. Jörg Schauer himself responding to QC issues, but I experienced no such service.

It's quite strange; Stowa simultaneously has a reputation for good customer service, and yet also a seemingly above average rate of delivering watches with defects that should have been caught before shipping to the customer. I could _maybe_ see myself giving the brand a try once again in the future, because I like Stowa in theory and they have some gorgeous watches, but as of now, my experience with them has been less than satisfactory, and I personally cannot recommend them.


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

Sounds like a similar situation I had with DOXA. From that experience, I've learned to NEVER give the watchmaker/watch company a way out by blaming me for an intermittent problem, i.e., from now on it is: "....it NEVER works". I am sorry you are having this problem.

heb


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

SJR3 said:


> fracture. said:
> 
> 
> > You have got to be joking...that's completely unacceptable.
> ...


I was looking into buying an antea klassik silver by end of this year, because I really loved the flieger until this happened. I'll see how they handle my watch, but I'm not afraid of reporting them to the consumer rights agency if they come up with such ........ to me. Completely unacceptable.

If they even respond to my email, that is.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

fracture. said:


> I was looking into buying an antea klassik silver by end of this year, because I really loved the flieger until this happened. I'll see how they handle my watch, but I'm not afraid of reporting them to the consumer rights agency if they come up with such ........ to me. Completely unacceptable.
> 
> If they even respond to my email, that is.


Understandable. You'd think Mr. Schauer would stay on top of every post in this forum if he truly cared about Stowa QC. There isn't so much activity in this forum that each issue can't be responded to. And yet looking at his user profile, he hasn't logged on in over 3 weeks. So the praise Stowa/Schauer sometimes receives is not exactly warranted if he can't even bother to so much as glance at his own forum once every 3 weeks.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Their marketing material states the watch hacks, not SOMETIMES hacks. 

They just responded, saying they want 63 EUR for shipping + service costs. Why should I pay this amount for a brand new watch that doesn't work since new? Am I stupid to find this unreasonable?


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



fracture. said:


> Their marketing material states the watch hacks, not SOMETIMES hacks.
> 
> They just responded, saying they want 63 EUR for shipping + service costs. Why should I pay this amount for a brand new watch that doesn't work since new? Am I stupid to find this unreasonable?


Absolutely ridiculous. If the watch isn't performing as advertised, and they want you to pay the shipping costs to return it for service, that is BULL ....!

Do what you have to do. File a credit card or PayPal claim or whatever, but that's absurd. Sorry to see Stowa ruining their own reputation in such a regard. :-(


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

My mistake - I thought Stowa sold watches that work, not watches that require a paid service immediately after receiving them.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

fracture. said:


> My mistake - I thought Stowa sold watches that work, not watches that require a paid service immediately after receiving them.


LOL! Like I said, file a credit card or PayPal dispute immediately. That is some absolute crap and Stowa should be ashamed of themselves. Totally turned me off to the Antea Klassik I was considering. Thankfully there are several other reputable German watch brands these days.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

SJR3 said:


> LOL! Like I said, file a credit card or PayPal dispute immediately. That is some absolute crap and Stowa should be ashamed of themselves. Totally turned me off to the Antea Klassik I was considering. Thankfully there are several other reputable German watch brands these days.


May I ask what you did with your non-working Stowa? I'm thinking about repairing it at cost at a local watchshop and selling it at a loss. I honestly no longer wish to have a Stowa in my inventory after this.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

fracture. said:


> May I ask what you did with your non-working Stowa? I'm thinking about repairing it at cost at a local watchshop and selling it at a loss. I honestly no longer wish to have a Stowa in my inventory after this.


Sold it on eBay at a significant loss. Of course disclosed the issue I was having. Never was contacting again by anyone from Stowa. Never again....


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody, hello fracture,

thanks for posting here the problems of your watch.

Since around two years we built all watches without date with a two position crown.

Only older watches have this three position crown, still if they have no date.

So - if you have bought this watch a few weeks ago and if we say it has a hacking second, so it has !

If not, there is a problem with the movement.
(many different things can happen, i have to hold the watch in my hands to give you a real statement which is 100% true)

In this case please return the watch to us and we repair it - of course we pay the shipping.

The STOWA statement on the earlier post is not STOWA like and i will have a look which person from my staff did such a mail with this content- there is something we have to discuss under four eyes.

Please send your watch to my personal hands.

Bye for now

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA - working hard but not able to controll every email and all details.

But if something happen - we always do our best - it means - we do it perfect !

Thats something all STOWA customer knows and thats for we get worldwide best reputation.

But of course- mistakes are happen and thats human.

The only thing is how to handle problems - we always handle them positive for our customers.

I will check everything.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

Dear SJR3,

thanks for posting the STOWA answer. Can you please forward me under my personal adress the name of the STOWA staff who send you this!? I have to check the details of this communication between you and the staff and our answer.

man thanks

Best regards

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody, hello fracture,

thanks for posting here the problems of your watch.

Since around two years we built all watches without date with a two position crown.

Only older watches have this three position crown, still if they have no date.

So - if you have bought this watch a few weeks ago and if we say it has a hacking second, so it has !

If not, there is a problem with the movement.
(many different things can happen, i have to hold the watch in my hands to give you a real statement which is 100% true)

In this case please return the watch to us and we repair it - of course we pay the shipping.

The STOWA statement on the earlier post is not STOWA like and i will have a look which person from my staff did such a mail with this content- there is something we have to discuss under four eyes.

Please send your watch to my personal hands.

Bye for now

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA - working hard but not able to controll every email and all details.

But if something happen - we always do our best - it means - we do it perfect !

Thats something all STOWA customer knows and thats for we get worldwide best reputation.

But of course- mistakes are happen and thats human.

The only thing is how to handle problems - we always handle them positive for our customers.

I will check everything.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Dear SJR3,

thanks for posting the STOWA answer. Can you please forward me under my personal adress the name of the STOWA staff who send you this!? I have to check the details of this communication between you and the staff and our answer.

man thanks

Best regards

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



SJR3 said:


> Understandable. You'd think Mr. Schauer would stay on top of every post in this forum if he truly cared about Stowa QC.


Your statement seems to be right and honest..................confirmed by Joerg Schauer personally! :-!
In fact he can't be around everywhere, but if the company's reputation is challenged, he will fight for even better QC and customer service.

That is the reason, why most of their customers will trust in this firm of good repute in future too,

Volker ;-)


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



brainless said:


> Your statement seems to be right and honest..................confirmed by Joerg Schauer personally! :-!
> In fact he can't be around everywhere, but if the company's reputation is challenged, he will fight for even better QC and customer service.
> 
> That is the reason, why most of their customers will trust in this firm of good repute in future too,
> ...


You're kind of proving my point. Things shouldn't have to get to this extent in the first place. It shouldn't take a "challenge" in order for quality control to be top notch, if that is in fact the goal.

But anyway, Mr. Schauer's acknowledgement here is appreciated, even if too late.


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## infrarot123 (Mar 21, 2016)

fracture. said:


> I was looking into buying an antea klassik silver by end of this year, because I really loved the flieger until this happened. I'll see how they handle my watch, but I'm not afraid of reporting them to the consumer rights agency if they come up with such ........ to me. Completely unacceptable.
> 
> If they even respond to my email, that is.


First of all, I totally understand your disappointment, something happened that shouldn't have happened.
But seriously, you're the first person threatening with reporting them to the consumer rights agancy, which is (in my opinion) a little bit exaggerated and ridiculous, right?
Precisely because Joerg wants to maintain the good reputation Stowa has, you won't have to bear the cost (for a mistake that happened on their side), and if that was communicated I'm sure that was definately a mistake.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

That’s why I said IF. 

The events have turned by 180 degrees since Mr. Jörg has stepped in, but I’m reserving final judgement to when I get the watch back.

I am fine with the watch not being perfect new, it happens to everyone. What separates a bad company from good company is how it handles such slips. First reaction by Stowa was not great, but now things are looking much better.

And let me reiterate, I absolutely loved the watch until I noticed it isn’t working properly.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

Dear SJR,

our quality controll is good, i know, i do the most of the watches by myself and a staffmember who makes the first, i make the second when i put the straps.

AGAIN:* Please send me the persons name who wrote the above statement that i can check.* 
This morning i couldn´t find anything - maybe it was a former staff - i will try to find out.

*Please send me the former mail and the person who wrote to you.*

We have to check and clear up this issue inhouse.

Many thanks

Best regards

Jörg Schauer



SJR3 said:


> You're kind of proving my point. Things shouldn't have to get to this extent in the first place. It shouldn't take a "challenge" in order for quality control to be top notch, if that is in fact the goal.
> 
> But anyway, Mr. Schauer's acknowledgement here is appreciated, even if too late.


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



SJR3 said:


> You're kind of proving my point.


Thank you for writing _'kind of'_



> Things shouldn't have to get to this extent in the first place.


You are right. They _shouldn't_ - but sh.t happens.............



> It shouldn't take a "challenge" in order for quality control to be top notch, if that is in fact the goal.


You imply, that only a mistake can be a "challenge" - in this case you are totally wrong! 
*My* experiences are, that their QC *is* top notch indeed.



> But anyway, Mr. Schauer's acknowledgement here is appreciated, even if too late.


Currently you are asked for the second time already to send Joerg Schauer a copy of the mail, you often mentioned and complained about. 
Why don't you do it? You are late too,

Volker


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

Volker. Stowa took a week to get back to the OP. He isn't yet as late as Stowa was in getting back to his query.

I believe the OP meant a "challenge" having to come from him before he got the QC issue investigated, instead of being told its normal...

The forums currently have a few people complaining about QC issues. If all your watches are perfect then good for you, but you are not the only customer.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



brainless said:


> Thank you for writing _'kind of'_
> 
> You are right. They _shouldn't_ - but sh.t happens.............
> 
> ...


Now you're just being petty. Anyway, I have contacted Jörg. No rush from me, since as I mentioned, I don't even own the watch anymore and have moved on from Stowa.

But in all sincerity, I do appreciate him reaching out and wishing to look into the matter, even after all this time.


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



Chazmondo said:


> The forums currently have a few people complaining about QC issues.


Yes, those are SJR3, fracture and you.



> If all your watches are perfect then good for you,


......and if any of my watches would have come to me not perfectly, I wouldn't use a public forum to settle the matter - I would address the seller directly.
Where there's a will there's a way - preferably a private way,

Volker


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



brainless said:


> Yes, those are SJR3, fracture and you.
> 
> ......and if any of my watches would have come to me not perfectly, I wouldn't use a public forum to settle the matter - I would address the seller directly.
> Where there's a will there's a way - preferably a private way,
> ...


I did address the seller first. I then took to these forums to let people know about scratched movements and get in touch with Stowa before ordering one to avoid dissapointment.

Jorg cleared up the initial communiation error. But since then he asked me to trust stowa but I have again been told incorrect information. Secondary communication was to expect delivery in 2-3 weeks but now i am to wait an additional 6 weeks (which will be xmas so I doubt they will be open) so I expect a watch to only be ready some time in 2019 now.

I ordered the watch in September 2018...

Is that great customer service?

All caused by a QC slip...

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

fracture., any update?

As for my contacting Jörg, he never even bothered to reply to me.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Nothing yet, but that’s ok, I’m in no hurry. I’ll update the thread once I get any feedback.

And to brainless, I’m sorry, but I got completely different info once I made a ruckus on the forums. Before, I got no answer, and after a week I got “you have to pay us 63€ + service cost”. After, I got “no problem, we will take care of it for free”.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

fracture. said:


> And to brainless, I'm sorry, but I got completely different info once I made a ruckus on the forums. Before, I got no answer, and after a week I got "you have to pay us 63€ + service cost". After, I got "no problem, we will take care of it for free".


This is precisely what I meant when I said it shouldn't take a public "challenge" in order for Stowa to offer their supposedly legendary customer service. Perhaps a language barrier prevented brainless from understanding what I meant.

It's one thing to offer great customer service when a complaint has been made on a public forum, and any observers are judging the reply from the company. It's another thing entirely to offer that same great customer service at all times, public complaint or not.

There is an old saying I am reminded of: "Character is what you are when no one is looking."


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

SJR3 said:


> Perhaps a language barrier prevented brainless from understanding what I meant.


No,

I did understand the words you wrote - but I don't share your opinion.
You may write what you want and I may accept or not.

......and there is an old saying I remember: 'Everyone is entitled to his own views.'

Volker ;-)


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

I will be very happy if you are right and I am wrong, brainless, believe me!


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



brainless said:


> No,
> 
> I did understand the words you wrote - but I don't share your opinion.
> You may write what you want and I may accept or not.
> ...


So your opinion is that Stowa should only offer good customer service when someone goes public with a complaint? :-s


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



SJR3 said:


> So your opinion is that Stowa should only offer good customer service when someone goes public with a complaint? :-s


99,9% of Stowa customers are happy campers on both, watches and customer service. And there are 0,01% voicing their dissatisfaction which is ansolutely ok. But permanently overegging the pudding and constant iterations are tiresome. Now that you addressed your dissatisfaction and Jörg chimed in, why not moving on ?


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



stuffler said:


> 99,9% of Stowa customers are happy campers on both, watches and customer service. And there are 0,01% voicing their dissatisfaction which is ansolutely ok. But permanently overegging the pudding and constant iterations are tiresome. Now that you addressed your dissatisfaction and Jörg chimed in, why not moving on ?


Because some of us have not yet had the promise delivered. Saying you'll do something is very different from actually doing something.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

Also what is the 99.9% of customers being satified based on exactly? Do Stowa send out a satisfaction queationairre after each sale and collate the statistics?

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

When talking about „some", are we talking about % or ‰ here ? Are we talking about „some" members here on WatchUSeek or are we talking about non-forum-stowa buyers ?


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



stuffler said:


> When talking about „some", are we talking about % or ‰ here ? Are we talking about „some" members here on WatchUSeek or are we talking about non-forum-stowa buyers ?


Some was referring to the people in this thread that have had poor service. I still would like to know what your 99.9% satisfaction is based on though.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



Chazmondo said:


> Some was referring to the people in this thread that have had poor service. I still would like to know what your 99.9% satisfaction is based on though.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


16 years of moderating this forum, 17 years of regular contacts with Jörg, his team, Stowa owners here and on orher fora, exhibition visitors, road show visitors. Anual output is about 5000 watches. If 25 watches are faulty, we are talking about 0,5% which would be an absolute stunning figure. If 5 members here complain about a faulty watch we would speak about ‰, wouldn't we ?


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



stuffler said:


> 16 years of moderating this forum, 17 years of regular contacts with Jörg, his team, Stowa owners here and on orher fora, exhibition visitors, road show visitors. Anual output is about 5000 watches. If 25 watches are faulty, we are talking about 0,5% which would be an absolute stunning figure. If 5 members here complain about a faulty watch we would speak about ‰, wouldn't we ?


You said 99.9% of customers and i was wondering if it was based on anything other than personal experience and conjecture. I was talking about the people in this thread. Also 25 people of 5000 sales is 0.5% return rate. Not 0.1%.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Guys, please, I didn’t want to start a flame war or open cans of worms. 

It’s okay if all watches are not perfect new, it happens to everyone. And by the looks of it, Stowa will handle my watch proper; own up to their mistake and fix it up free of charge.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



Chazmondo said:


> You said 99.9% of customers and i was wondering if it was based on anything other than personal experience and conjecture. I was talking about the people in this thread. Also 25 people of 5000 sales is 0.5% return rate. Not 0.1%.


0,1 referred to this forum, of course. Anyway, 99,5% isn't bad either.


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



stuffler said:


> 0,1 referred to this forum, of course. Anyway, 99,5% isn't bad either.


Again you're stating a percentage based on nothing. I don't feel you should be stating such percentages if you can't back them up. Anyway I'm waiting for my Stowa and will update in my thread once I get it.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



Chazmondo said:


> Again you're stating a percentage based on nothing. I don't feel you should be stating such percentages if you can't back them up. Anyway I'm waiting for my Stowa and will update in my thread once I get it.


And you haven't even got a faulty watch. You're just pissed about communication and delayed delivery.



> ....Jorg cleared up the initial communiation error. But since then he asked me to trust stowa but I have again been told incorrect information. Secondary communication was to expect delivery in 2-3 weeks but now i am to wait an additional 6 weeks (which will be xmas so I doubt they will be open) so I expect a watch to only be ready some time in 2019 now....


Please do not tell me what I should be stating and what not.


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



stuffler said:


> And you haven't even got a faulty watch. You're just pissed about communication and delayed delivery.
> 
> Please do not tell me what I should be stating and what not.


I don't think you should be stating percentages on behalf of a company which you don't represent. You can if you want but if the percentages are based on conjecture and being used to belittle people that are unhappy and trying to fob them off as being unreasonable then that is not correct in my opinion.

Yes i haven't got a Stowa watch anymore. I sent it back becuase of poor QC and chimed in this thread to support the other people who are having problems to show they are not alone.

This whole thread has been about poor communication in the first instance and then Jorg having to step in retrospectively hasn't it? He shouldn't have to do that.

You saying 99.9% of customers are happy doesn't apply to the people with issues in this thread does it? So how does stating that percentage help them?

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

It is frightfully boring, isn't it?!

Volker :roll:


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



stuffler said:


> And you haven't even got a faulty watch. You're just pissed about *communication* and delayed *delivery*.


These are important elements of customer service, no? That's essentially what this discussion boils down to. No one doubts that Stowa can deliver excellent watches. But if the process (for a small percentage of customers) is fraught with frustration and repeated letdown, then there is clearly room for improvement, and complaints are justified.

Mike, you are perhaps Stowa's biggest fanboy. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't say with a straight face that you are unbiased here. You are also moderator of this forum. Consider how that looks to all the people who will lurk this forum for years to come. I can appreciate you feeling a need to defend Stowa, but consider that your attempts to stamp out these discussions might be doing more harm than good.

You seem to be reacting with condescension and disdain toward those expressing complaints about Stowa. You, as the unofficial spokesperson for the brand, aren't helping matters. Instead, perhaps try an approach of gentle reassurance to those experiencing an abnormal experience with the brand. From my observation of this forum for over two years, I believe your anecdotal statistic of "99.9%" of customers being utterly satisfied might actually be right. If so, that's a record to be proud of. But don't tarnish it by acting so high and mighty toward the few who have a less than desirable experience with Stowa.


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



brainless said:


> It is frightfully boring, isn't it?!
> 
> Volker :roll:


There isn't fire without hot air.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## JL Pettimore (Jan 27, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

If I don't grab the crown by it's base right next to the case, sometimes the crown doesn't always come out all the way and the seconds hand will continue to run. It will stop every time if I get a good grip on it at the base of it. Mine is a no date hand wind, if that matters. Hope that helps.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

I am interested how other issues have been resolved; any updates Chazmondo, SJR3?

I have to say I'm a little disappointed. I was promised they will keep me up to date and let me know when they received the watch, but after two weeks I caved in and e-mailed them. They told me oh yea, we got the watch, but forgot about it.

Next up I'm waiting for their watchmaker to take a look at the watch and they will let me know what happens next. How long would it be a good etiquette to wait before checking up if they forgot about me again? I'm not trying to be sassy or sarcastic. Would 2 weeks be enough?


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## Cryslay33 (Nov 19, 2018)

Its obviously a tech issue. You should contact STOWA


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## Chazmondo (Sep 18, 2018)

Cryslay33 said:


> Its obviously a tech issue. You should contact STOWA


It's a combination of people, process and technology. Can't just blame tech. People use tech and if the process is unclear then the use of tech in the process is blurred. I think they have more deep rooted issues. Something is happening internally i reckon. Be it capacity or capability issues. Look at all the chatter in this forum. There was a roadshow, there are multiple special edition models, there are new models, and this time of year is naturally busier.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody,

Just try to help me to clear up the situation please.

I was sure that my service staff will handle this issue with priority and at this moment I don´t know exactly the status of this one or two watches which have a problem.

The best will be to mail me directly under [email protected] in this case- please mail me you repair number and your name and the last email communication with my service staff, after this I can have a look.

Still I am 100% sure that our service is quite good, but also I have to say that the service staff is not always 100% able to analyse the many small problems a watch can have.

So the service staff normaly needs the information from the watchmakers, sometimes the service staff needs informations from me to get a perfect view of a service watch.

(there are many informations which are needed to handle a service perfect: who is responsible for the broken watch ? we or the customer? Who is paying the shipping, we or the customer? and so on)

Only after having all needed informations the service staff can give a right answer - sometimes it needs a bit more to get all this informations and make a perfect answer.

This is no abuse basicly, it is just the trying to explain how complicated sometimes the things are.

So, the best always will be to get in touch with our service staff directly or/and- if there is a delay in answering -*contact our [email protected] email.*

This emails are collected in our dashboard and different people reading and forwarding this.

So- if there is a delay in communication between a person who has sended a watch and there is no reply from service staff - please mail to the [email protected] email adress.

Than we have the possibility to support the service staff in this issue.

This above issue are maybe one of those who are not 100% clear for the service staff how to handle- so i will try to help them.

But i also need the help - thats the reason i need more informations and please mail me directly or to our [email protected] adress and write the repairnumber and your name.

I was sure that the watch is already under work and probably done.

Sorry.

Best regards

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA

And the only thing i can say 100% is: STOWA is and was always able to satiesfy nearly 100% customers at the end.

Since 1927.

Thi is our target and for this we are working.

BUT: of course there are for sure a few customers during this more than 90 years which has been not satiesfied - still if we have tried everything.

So - please try to help me to get this actual problem solved.


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## montydrei (Dec 5, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

Wow, the owner himself providing his direct email address to resolve a customer problem. Seeing this makes me more excited (and impatient!) to become a Stowa customer! 

Just need a little more time and money, but I will definitely get there ;-)


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

After three weeks I have been notified that the watch is repaired and ready to be shipped to me. I find three weeks very fast, I was not expecting the watch still this year.

All expenses were covered by Stowa. I will still reserve my final judgement until I get the watch in my hands and see if it indeed works properly, but apart from poor communication from Stowa, I am very happy how my request has been handled.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

They forgot to send my watch, even though both Mr. Schauer and the watchmaker notified me it will ship on Thursday or Friday latest. 

I’m really not in a hurry, so I don’t mind and they’re probably in a December craze, but ...


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

Thanks Stowa, I got the broken watch back with nothing done on it!

So here's how this went through:
I told Stowa my watch is broken. They told me that will be 60€ + service. Since the watch has been broken since new, I refused to pay and made a ruckus on the forums. Since Jörg involved, they told me it's free. Their team told me they will notify me when they receive the watch.

After two weeks, I asked them if they received the watch. They did, but forgot their promise to let me know when they will receive it. I was told the watch is going to their watch technician or whatever to inspect and repair it. I will be notified when they know more.

They forgot to notify me again. I sent them an e-mail, this was Jörgs response:

"watch is ready and will be shipped today or tomorow.

best regards"

No hi, no bye, no nothing. This is how I write an SMS to my wife, not a formal e-mail to customer.

Then they forgot to ship the watch.

Now I finally got it, the watch is still broken and still doesn't work. They even forgot to repair the watch.

I will be giving the watch to a trusted local repairman (he does Omega and Rolex mainly, but knows ETAs very well), and after that will be selling it. I no longer want a Stowa, or anything to do with this company. Your self proclaimed legendary customer service is absolute garbage.

Goodbye.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Dear fracture,

its me, Jörg Schauer again.
(bye the way- we are exactly now this moment in email contact and i can´t stop you to post here, but i was trying to ask you about the situation by private mail. But thats ok to write here in this thread, we have nothing to hide)

*I try to explain the forum members the actual situation.*

We have repaired your watch by changing a few parts which belongs to the relevant movement function.

I by myself tested the hack function before shipping and everything was fine.

i realy don´t know how this could happen again - we are selling around 1000 hand wound ETA movements a year with exactly this specification and no problems (of course a small amount of movement always has a problem. Caused by customer, by our watchmaker probably or by ETA the producer of the movements. Problems of course which are not able to see when we built, test and ship the watches. The most important matter is: WE solve all problems always to a 100% perfect customer experience and satisfaction)

The only thing i can offer you is to send the watch back, *we refund your money *and you have your bad experience and you never will buy a watch again - i know.

*I am realy sorry for all, but to solve this issue i need the watch back* and of course i don't think that you ever again planing to buy a watch.

But i have to do the offer to you because we are selling around 5000 watches a year and we have no quality problem.

If we should sell bad watches the forum members and all our customers would blame us every day.

The opposite happens every day - we get compliments for our quality.

Now i have to try to keep our reputation like it is : Good !

Please mail me when we can pick up the wach and my wife will transfer your money ASAP.

I feel that there is no other solution to keep our reputation and to stop this issue i can´t understand.

*I will write here after receiving the watch whats happen with it.*

I promisse.

Bye for now

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

I was really rooting for a good outcome for you, OP. Such a shame it came down to this.


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## montydrei (Dec 5, 2018)

Sounds like really bad luck for both parties ... I guess the watch got damaged in shipment somehow this last time?

Just out of curiosity, as this is the ETA 2824-2 movement and I have a watch with the Sea-Gull clone of said movement: do you have to pull the crown all the way out until it clicks twice (one click to move it out of the 1st handwinding position, then another click to move it to the actual 2nd time-setting position) to engage the hacking seconds function? My watch with the Sea-Gull ST21 movement does this this. All the way in, the crown can wind the mainspring. Pull it out for one click, and the crown spins freely without doing anything. The balance wheel keeps on moving. Pull it out a little more, and the crown clicks again. At this point, the balance wheel stops, and I can set the time.

Not sure if this is how the Flieger 40 with ETA 2824-2 works, though, but just curious.


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## Independent George (Sep 10, 2018)

Jörg Schauer said:


> Dear fracture,
> 
> its me, Jörg Schauer again.
> (bye the way- we are exactly now this moment in email contact and i can´t stop you to post here, but i was trying to ask you about the situation by private mail. But thats ok to write here in this thread, we have nothing to hide)
> ...


Jorg,

Far be it from me to suggest to anyone how he should conduct his business, particularly to a man who runs a successful business, but, at this point, perhaps it's best to move on.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

Independent George said:


> Jorg,
> 
> Far be it from me to suggest to anyone how he should conduct his business, particularly to a man who runs a successful business, but, at this point, perhaps it's best to move on.


Isn't that exactly what he just said he's doing? Refunding the customer's money and moving on...


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## Independent George (Sep 10, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



SJR3 said:


> Isn't that exactly what he just said he's doing? Refunding the customer's money and moving on...


Yep, that's what's he's doing.

Jorg's first language isn't English, so sometimes, when speed reading, I will miss things.

Personally, I suspect user error. That's not to disparage Fracture. But a watch movement shouldn't hack then not hack then hack. Not saying that it's impossible, and this is such an unusual and specific issue I suspect it's user error, especially if Stowa can't replicate the problem.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



Independent George said:


> Yep, that's what's he's doing.
> 
> Jorg's first language isn't English, so sometimes, when speed reading, I will miss things.
> 
> Personally, I suspect user error. That's not to disparage Fracture. But a watch movement shouldn't hack then not hack then hack. Not saying that it's impossible, and this is such an unusual and specific issue I suspect it's user error, especially if Stowa can't replicate the problem.


If you bothered to read this whole thread, you'd have seen my posts explaining that I had same problem with a Stowa Flieger a year ago. I can't speak for Fracture, but what I experienced was most assuredly _not_ user error. So I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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## Independent George (Sep 10, 2018)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*



SJR3 said:


> If you bothered to read this whole thread, you'd have seen my posts explaining that I had same problem with a Stowa Flieger a year ago. I can't speak for Fracture, but what I experienced was most assuredly _not_ user error. So I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.


I have and I am not so inclined.


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## montydrei (Dec 5, 2018)

Hmm, reviewing the (very first page of the) thread, I see the following statements from OP:



fracture.;47222983I'm gentle when pulling out the crown said:


> fracture. said:
> 
> 
> > Well, the watch started running WHILE I was setting the time.
> ...


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## montydrei (Dec 5, 2018)

(off-topic) Argh, how come I still cannot edit any of my posts?


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## bbjai (Apr 24, 2018)

Is there anyway to video upload and demonstrate the problem of the hacking and not hacking failing? I am curious to see it visually. Reading it is one thing but seeing fracture replicate the problem would really help me understand it more. 

Jorg, If i may ask a simple question. Do you provide the buyer the broken parts or parts you replaced when shipping the watch back? 
To me it seems like fracture is unsure if any repairs was done to the watch after reading his post. I feel that in the future when you service a watch you should send the used parts back to the owner so they can verify the work done. I would feel better seeing the parts replaced as a peace of mind myself. 

I have another stupid question to all forum members. Would the hacking function be affected if the watch is not fully wound up in the first place?


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

I have filmed a short video for you just now. The watch simply does not hack. 
I do not pull the crown, I rest my thumb on the case, hold the crown firmly, and push away from the case, as to pull the crown with least amount of force possible, so I do not damage anything. You can see the crown is indeed fully extended and the seconds hand is still running.

It is only a 9 seconds long video, please take a look. Download it from here:

https://ufile.io/yccv4


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## Cryslay33 (Nov 19, 2018)

if you pull it out normally you should feel the click. If it doesn’t hack even after it pops out with click, then I’d assume there is something wrong with it but Stowa has actually removed the second crown position normally used for date, so the watch wouldn’t have phantom positions.


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## bbjai (Apr 24, 2018)

thank you fracture, that video helps.

Did you get back any replaced parts showing you that there was any work done to the watch? i think it would be interesting to bring it to the watchmaker to find out why it is performing like that instead of sending it back to stowa for a refund. It also could potentially be educational for us all but even though i am saying that, i would probably send it back and get it refunded if they offered. Definately would be less hassle.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

montydrei said:


> Sounds like really bad luck for both parties ... I guess the watch got damaged in shipment somehow this last time?
> 
> Just out of curiosity, as this is the ETA 2824-2 movement and I have a watch with the Sea-Gull clone of said movement: do you have to pull the crown all the way out until it clicks twice (one click to move it out of the 1st handwinding position, then another click to move it to the actual 2nd time-setting position) to engage the hacking seconds function? My watch with the Sea-Gull ST21 movement does this this. All the way in, the crown can wind the mainspring. Pull it out for one click, and the crown spins freely without doing anything. The balance wheel keeps on moving. Pull it out a little more, and the crown clicks again. At this point, the balance wheel stops, and I can set the time.
> 
> Not sure if this is how the Flieger 40 with ETA 2824-2 works, though, but just curious.


The watch winds in closed (not extended) position and hacks in 1st position. The phantom position (because ETA 2824 has a date) was removed, so there is only 1 crown position. I have a feeling something went wrong when they did this on my watch.


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

bbjai said:


> thank you fracture, that video helps.
> 
> Did you get back any replaced parts showing you that there was any work done to the watch? i think it would be interesting to bring it to the watchmaker to find out why it is performing like that instead of sending it back to stowa for a refund. It also could potentially be educational for us all but even though i am saying that, i would probably send it back and get it refunded if they offered. Definately would be less hassle.


I did not get any parts that were swapped with the watch. I will take Mr. Jörgs offer for a refund, but I was really tilted yesterday, so apologies if I was harsh.

The thing is, this was to be my 3rd flieger watch. I've been wearing nothing but fliegers for past 4 years and love them, the other two were from Laco. I especially loved the looks of this Stowa flieger. It was also a present to myself for my 30th birthday. Oh well. I've come to terms with it now that I have slept on it.


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## bbjai (Apr 24, 2018)

Do you think that because they removed the second position that something went wrong in the process? and this is why its not hacking anymore?

Edit: just saw your previous post please ignore this one


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

Could this be an inherent issue of the 2824-2 when the date advance position is removed? I mean, I have a Tudor Heritage Ranger that does exhibit similar issue. And it just so happens that this is also modified by Tudor so there's no phantom position for manual date change?

Over the years of owning it, I find that whenever I need to adjust the time, I would unscrew the crown, turn the crown stem counterclockwise until I hear a clean click before I pull it further to the hacking position. This way I never experience the same issue.

Something to do with aligning the keyless works maybe?

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

No follow-up from Jorg. Interesting....


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

SJR3 said:


> No follow-up from Jorg. Interesting....


There was a follow up 2 days ago. What else do you expect if I may ask ?

Jörg wrote that further information will be posted here



> I will write here after receiving the watch whats happen with it.


Onviously he did not get the watch.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

stuffler said:


> There was a follow up 2 days ago. What else do you expect if I may ask ?
> 
> Jörg wrote that further information will be posted here
> 
> Onviously he did not get the watch.


Lots of conjecture and theories since his last post here, as well as a video of the issue. I would have appreciated his insight, specifically to the questions regarding if Stowa provides the parts which were replaced during service back to the customer (or if not, if they might consider doing so in the future). I'd also be curious to hear his thoughts on whether this could be a problem caused by removing the date position on the 2824-2, as a few folks above have suggested.


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## bbjai (Apr 24, 2018)

Okay if.i am not mistaken, fractures watch is a 2804 movement right?

I wonder if anyone that has both the 2824 and 2804 movements without the phantom position is going through the same problems. Because that would suggest removing the second crown position is causing the faults here. As the 2804 is derived from the 2824 calibres.


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## SJR3 (Apr 4, 2017)

bbjai said:


> Okay if.i am not mistaken, fractures watch is a 2804 movement right?
> 
> I wonder if anyone that has both the 2824 and 2804 movements without the phantom position is going through the same problems. Because that would suggest removing the second crown position is causing the faults here. As the 2804 is derived from the 2824 calibres.


In the very first post of this thread, he states his flieger has a 2824-2.


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## bbjai (Apr 24, 2018)

SJR3 said:


> In the very first post of this thread, he states his flieger has a 2824-2.


silly me i was thinking about a different post that had the 2804. however i do wonder if the 2804 movement without the phantom position has this problem as well.


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## taurnilf (Sep 30, 2013)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

Maybe it's time to bring back the phantom clicks. It's a 2824 after all. Removing the clicks is like ordering a cheeseburger without the cheese.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

*Re: Flieger 40 ETA 2824-2 seconds hand doesn't hack*

Hello everybody,

*watch was refunded, *

- waiting for watch
- after receiving checking the description of the problem 
and after this i will make a informatioin here
- but probably after 7th. january bacause our work at this moment before chrisrtmas is extremly since weeks
16-18 hours days to get all ordered watches delivered
- all service watches sended back to customer.

*Hacking of movements *
AGAIN: This is no BASIC problem.

All around 1000 hand wound movements we are seliing each year - many thousands we delivered the last 20 years are working without problems - maybe a hand full has a problem, caused by customer or us or ETA.

So no discussion necessary to change something - as well not necessary to change any other decision from before that we change the parts on 2824-2 which has noch date - this is what our customers ask for and this is good to do.

We have 99.9% satisfied customer worldwide and we work hard every day to get all.

But this is sometimes impossible - i think all customers who design or produce a complicated product can confirm this.

If i take a view back in the past time, i think we have done everything to satisfy all customers and we did nearly 100%.

100% is impossible - there are too many different things which can happen** and are not under our controll - thats life.

** 
- ETA production
- mistakes from my watchmakers (i have to trust their work, because i can´t built every watch by myself ;-)
- shipping
- customer mistakes
and so on....

The most important is - i have to say it again -* that we solve all problems without harming anyone.*

Bye for now

I will come back here at least after christmas hiolidays (7th. January)when we start to work again.

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Personally, I think what Jörg is doing here is first class and no one should ask more from a watch manufacturer. 

For what it's worth, my Rolex 216570 developed a fault (the date wouldn't fully flip after midnight) only 2 weeks after I purchased it new....and that's an almost $9,000 watch!

What I'm trying to say is, as long as a manufacturer stand behind their products, that manufacturer gets an A+ in my book, regardless of the price bracket they are selling in.

Kudos to Jörg for his follow up and Merry Christmas to all.

Cheers!

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## fracture. (Aug 11, 2018)

mui.richard said:


> Personally, I think what Jörg is doing here is first class and no one should ask more from a watch manufacturer.


I actually agree. As a fracture mechanics engineer (hence the nickname...), I know full well nothing is 100%, ever. Stowa has given me full refund, including shipping, and I haven't even sent the watch back yet. UPS couldn't pick up the watch before Monday, tomorrow. I honestly did not even expect that a refund is an option, and I was really surprised that they even refunded me the shipping.

I have no idea if expecting swapped parts with the watch after repair is a reasonable expectation. All I can say is that the first thing I did when I got the watch back was wind it up a little, with rotor because from what I've read manual winding is really bad for ETA movements. I waited 30 seconds (instructions from Grand Seiko, for example), and pulled out the crown by pushing away from the case, rather than straight pull, to be as gentle as possible. The seconds hand did not stop on my first try. I can also tell you that the crown sometimes gives a pleasant click when you extend it, and the seconds hand stops. Sometimes it gives no click, and the seconds hand keeps running. When that happens, sometimes you can pull the crown a little further and get the click, the seconds stop, and sometimes you can't do that. It's weird to describe, but it feels like sometimes the crown has two positions, sometimes one, and sometimes the hacking doesn't work at all. As to why that happens - I have no idea, I am not a watch manufacturer, I just love the looks of this watch, but if I had to bet I'd say it's something to do with the removed date feature. Again, I'm no watch expert, so I might be completely off.

The movement is indeed ETA 2824-2 TOP grade, as someone has already pointed out.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

fracture. said:


> I actually agree. As a fracture mechanics engineer (hence the nickname...), I know full well nothing is 100%, ever. Stowa has given me full refund, including shipping, and I haven't even sent the watch back yet. UPS couldn't pick up the watch before Monday, tomorrow. I honestly did not even expect that a refund is an option, and I was really surprised that they even refunded me the shipping.
> 
> I have no idea if expecting swapped parts with the watch after repair is a reasonable expectation. All I can say is that the first thing I did when I got the watch back was wind it up a little, with rotor because from what I've read manual winding is really bad for ETA movements. I waited 30 seconds (instructions from Grand Seiko, for example), and pulled out the crown by pushing away from the case, rather than straight pull, to be as gentle as possible. The seconds hand did not stop on my first try. I can also tell you that the crown sometimes gives a pleasant click when you extend it, and the seconds hand stops. Sometimes it gives no click, and the seconds hand keeps running. When that happens, sometimes you can pull the crown a little further and get the click, the seconds stop, and sometimes you can't do that. It's weird to describe, but it feels like sometimes the crown has two positions, sometimes one, and sometimes the hacking doesn't work at all. As to why that happens - I have no idea, I am not a watch manufacturer, I just love the looks of this watch, but if I had to bet I'd say it's something to do with the removed date feature. Again, I'm no watch expert, so I might be completely off.
> 
> The movement is indeed ETA 2824-2 TOP grade, as someone has already pointed out.


It's not weird at all, v that's EXACTLY what my Tudor Ranger behaves sometimes. But since mine didn't really needed adjustment for two years already and it's still accurate to the minute it is only as good as my memory serves.

Since you still have the watch, maybe you can try what I do with mine...unscrew the crown, instead of winding the watch by pushing the crown forward, put it up to your ear and rotate it backwards towards yourself until you hear the clicks. They are quite distinct so I'm sure you can hear them. Turn it towards yourself a few turns, stop when you know it's just in between two clicks, THEN pull out the stem and hack the movement.

You should be able to do it every time and smoothly.

Just sharing my experience and I do realize Jörg already gave you a refund, but I don't think it hurts to try before shipping your watch back.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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