# A new 24hr watch face. (Your thoughts ?)



## ThomasAn (Aug 1, 2008)

In view of my (in the mail) new Glycine 22, I thought to put together a concept illustration of what I feel might be a personal touch on this fine watch.

The enhanced design has the following features:
a) Color-coded lume on the hands (Orange minute-hand corresponding to the orange minute numerals and white hour-hand corresponding to white hour numerals).

b) Use of symbolism (sunlight behind a mountain line) to visually enforce the paradigm that the hour-hand (roughly) follows the actual celestial object. As opposed to traditional 12 hour watches that are abstract.

c) Red lume on the hour markers divide the watch in 4 quadrants (easier to tell time at night merely by looking at the lume alone).

d) Date window moved to the 24hr spot since that is when the date actually changes.
(Also, we'd rather have the date hidden under the hour hand during midnight than at 1800. At 1800 we might still want to read the date from time to time)

e) The odd numbered hour markers no longer blend into the minute markers.

Enhanced design:








The original:


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## citralex (Jan 17, 2008)

excellent idea but still has my pet hate, the tail on the hour hand ,It seems to be cheating


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## raschid (Dec 30, 2008)

a) good idea - makes sense
b) very nice! 
c) I would prefer 8 "quadrants" corresponding to the quadrants on 12h models as in early Yantars (0, 3, 6, 9 ...).
d) Yep, agree.


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## peagreen (May 11, 2006)

I can see the benefit of moving the date window and I agree with the thinking behind it. I believe the altered odd numbered hour markers would also be an improvement. 
The other points you mention I don't see as improvements.
Unlike Citralex I do like the tail on the hour hand. How is that supposed to be cheating? I like to see a clear difference between the hour hand and the minute hand but it's not necessary to give them different colours if the shape is already more than adequate difference.
I don't like the way the numerals for the hours flip over between 18 and 19 on the dial. If you read them out while rotating the watch it goes 16, 17, 18, 91. On the opposite side of the dial it goes 3, 4, 5, 9.
That's on both the original and your proposal.


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## Dennis Smith (Feb 15, 2006)

Very , very nice.

I like it.

With the date relocated, I'd make the 6 and 18 hour markers triangles as well, and make all the hour markers white (lose the red). Now that I think of it...that would look like an Early Bird ;-)

Otherwise I'd shorten the hour hand to the original length to better differentiate between it and the minute hand.
I like separating the hour and minute tracks, but if you're going to keep the hour hand short and the minute hand long (standard config), then I'd consider putting the minute track outside the hour track. Some Seiko divers have the minute track on the rehaut (the raised portion between the dial and bezel). I've never seen this on a 24 hour watch but would like to. Yantar/AirNautic have the minute track outside the hour track and it works well, but they don't have the second timezone (bezel) so that's would be neat to see.

On the other discussions:

I like the hour hand tail. I think it's an attractive design element. I've never used it (or been tempted to use it) for reading across to the 12 hour equivalent, so I don't see it as cheating.

Having the numbers flip rightside up half way around the dial is the standard for parts that don't move (like a dial). Compare the Rolex Explorer II fixed bezel numbers to the numbers on the rotatable GMT Master II bezel.


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## sidecross (Jan 1, 2011)

I seem to be the 'odd man out'. 

I like having the 24th hour at the top and 12th hour at the bottom. I would like very much to have one of these watches, but until then I will be content with my LUM-TEC Combat B4.


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## Bushflyr (May 4, 2011)

I really like all your touches except for the mountain. I'm not a fan of pictures on my watches. I'd prefer just a blue to black fade. Also, if I could get it with tritium markers and hands it would be my perfect watch.


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## peagreen (May 11, 2006)

Dennis Smith said:


> Very , very nice.
> On the other discussions:
> 
> I like the hour hand tail. I think it's an attractive design element. I've never used it (or been tempted to use it) for reading across to the 12 hour equivalent, so I don't see it as cheating.


Am I just being dense?
The tail does not point at the 12 hour equivalent.

At 04:00 the tail points at the 12 hour watch equivalent of 2 o'clock, 
at 06:00 it points at the 12 hour equivalent of 3 o'clock
08:00 at 4, 16:00 at 8 etcetera.
I just don't get the comment that it is (like) cheating.

Equally, on a 24 hour watch with noon at the bottom, the tail of the hour hand would not point at the 12 hour watch equivalent.
14 > 1, 16 > 2, 18 > 3 ....

I do hope someone can explain what the cheat is supposed to be.


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## Dennis Smith (Feb 15, 2006)

Let's say you're a typical civilian who has no idea how to conceptualize military (24 hour) time.
On a 24 hour watch, when the time reads between midnight and noon, this person can just read the AM time off the dial, almost digitally.
For the rest of the day (13-23) when this person has no idea what the numbers "mean", he can look across the tail to the "PM" equivalent.


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## citralex (Jan 17, 2008)

peagreen said:


> Am I just being dense?
> The tail does not point at the 12 hour equivalent.
> 
> At 04:00 the tail points at the 12 hour watch equivalent of 2 o'clock,
> ...


 I think Dennis has explained it perfectly . the tail is only relevant after noon . I personally don't like it . . I think peagreen needs to have a better look at his watch. On my earlybird 2 is opposite 14 . 16 opp 4. 18 opp 6 . HHmmmm might be better with a digital


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## sidecross (Jan 1, 2011)

Civilian or military to have 24:00 at the top makes perfect sense to me.

Ask any child learning to tell time and they will most likely ask why are there are ' two twelve's' or 'two of every hour'?

I could learn to tell time on any 24 hour watch, but why not keep 'midnight' at its usual location?b-)


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## DanC (Dec 25, 2010)

Well, as long as we're offering comments...

I would like to have a watch like this - but with only even numbers shown on the dial, and all of the numbers on the dial oriented in the same direction as the 12.


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## pete.boardman (Jun 30, 2007)

Nice job! I drew one of these recently for a screensaver so I appreciate the effort...  The only trouble is - the mountains look like they're lit up by dawn or twilight sunlight - yet you've got 12 at the top... A little bell rings somewhere in my brain to tell me there's something amiss.


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## I Zingari (Apr 3, 2011)

Yup that it a significant improvement on the original. I particularly like the way the odd hour markers have been separated from the minute markers; a weakness of the original. Like everyone else there are a few things I'd change, but they're mostly personal taste. The orange minute markers could be made a bit brighter tho'.

I'm a purist so I like the 12 top face, but I'd like to see the 24 replaced by a 'pure' 0 too.


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## Bidle (Aug 5, 2006)

I really like the skill and effort but for me it's just to crowded with all those extra's..... sorry, but I prefer the original. Still great effort and thx for sharing!


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## Bonky McBonk (May 20, 2011)

nice work OP I'd buy it.


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## Walknbos (Apr 28, 2009)

Wow - I really think you (ThomasAn) have done a great Job! I would buy it, and have been on the fence for the Base22 since I first saw it. If I had choice i would prefer the 24 on top, but this is a small point. Thanks for the hard work and thought you put into this - I use these features daily for my job - so I own quite a few watches that track several time zones. All the best - and get that watch built.


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## peagreen (May 11, 2006)

Walknbos said:


> If I had choice i would prefer the 24 on top, but this is a small point.


Isn't this, noon or midnight at the top, the greatest bone of contention among proponents of 24-hour watches? 
Hardly what I would call a small point. For me it could easily make the difference between finding a watch interesting or not worthy of further consideration at all.


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

peagreen said:


> Isn't this, noon or midnight at the top, the greatest bone of contention among proponents of 24-hour watches?
> Hardly what I would call a small point. For me it could easily make the difference between finding a watch interesting or not worthy of further consideration at all.


peagreen,

That I agree whole-heartedly: the mountain and rising sun only makes sense if it is noon-on-top rather than midnight-on top. But then, to the proponents of noon-on-top:

When the second hand points straight up it is the start of a new minute.
When the minute hand points straight up it is the start of a new hour.
When the hour hand points straight up it is the start of a new day.

The day starts at midnight, not midday.


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## gerryoris (Oct 24, 2010)

most of us would agree that they prefer the 24 on top coz we used to it, noon-on-top will be a bit confusing for a 24hrs watch that is not use to it and at first glance.


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

gerryoris said:


> most of us would agree that they prefer the 24 on top coz we used to it, noon-on-top will be a bit confusing for a 24hrs watch that is not use to it and at first glance.


Indeed: it would be inconsistency in design, and with date function it would be strange for the date change to occur when the hour hand is straight down. But my point is: a major feature of the OP's revised design only makes sense if it is noon-on-top, and it would not translate well to the more logical midnight-on-top design.


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## ThomasAn (Aug 1, 2008)

Seele said:


> peagreen,
> 
> That I agree whole-heartedly: the mountain and rising sun only makes sense if it is noon-on-top rather than midnight-on top. But then, to the proponents of noon-on-top:
> 
> ...


Firstly you argument about consistency is duly noted and respected.

From a purist perspective when you think of the 24 on top, then time-telling becomes a pure abstraction; the watch is reduced to a heap of numerical values mere digits of a number line with a mathematical start.

-The purists (like myself) argue that the instrument needs to relate to the quantity or phenomena it measures. 
-Since antiquity, humans have associated passage of time with the motion of a celestial object across the sky.
-As such the linking of the sun trajectory with the hours of the day becomes the expected intuition.
-We do not have any object (or natural phenomenon to associate for minutes or seconds) as such these two quantities remain as simply numbers whose beginning defaults at the top.
The top convention is not an issue with regular analogs that go around twice, in which case the minutes and seconds begin both at noon and midnight.

Personally I would not object to a purist watch where all three quantities (Hour, minute and second) start at the bottom. It will trip a lot of people, but I like unique things with consistency too.

Ultimately, for a purist, a 24 hour watch is a "Solar" tracking instrument. The hour hand of the watch tracks the whereabouts of the sun. Being an ultra purist, I hate Daylight savings time because the solar noon no longer corresponds to the civilian 1200.

Another issue for an ultra purist is that the 0600-1800 line represents the horizon but in practice that is only true during the equinox. In every other time the sunrise and sunset times are different. In this case the YES watch is more accurate, but it no longer maintains a horizon.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a purist watch with a variable speed hour-hand (and digital numerals whose spacing is variable) such that sunrise and sunset is always along the watch horizon.

Finally, even a 24 hour on top can be seen as purist if you consider the hour-hand as a **shadow**. In this case the watch becomes a sundial, where time is told by the shadow.


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## ThomasAn (Aug 1, 2008)

Here is a Sundial watch where the hour hand now represents a *shadow* from an imaginary post perpendicular to the watch face center (imagine the axon of the mechanism that holds the hands elongated outward). As such this becomes a purist/24top hybrid.

-The location of the sun is now denoted by the symbol attached to the hour-hand tail.


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## peagreen (May 11, 2006)

gerryoris said:


> most of us would agree that they prefer the 24 on top coz we used to it, noon-on-top will be a bit confusing for a 24hrs watch that is not use to it and at first glance.


There's me in a minority again.


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

ThomasAN,

I fully understand your point, and I feel you are seeing more than what I meant.

First I am not a "purist", let alone an "ultra-purist". My point was in response to your original second point, and I quote:

"Use of symbolism (sunlight behind a mountain line) to visually enforce the paradigm that the hour-hand (roughly) follows the actual celestial object. As opposed to traditional 12 hour watches that are abstract", to which I commented:

"the mountain and rising sun only makes sense if it is noon-on-top rather than midnight-on-top".

So, this design point would only be valid within the context of a "noon-on-top" configuration. That's it really.


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## gerryoris (Oct 24, 2010)

how would you look at a watch of 24hrs with just one hand on the dial? and to top it all the noon at top, would it be more confusing??? or you just forget thier a passing minute in every moment, for me i would surely get confuse for a couple of days or probably a week just to get use to it.


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

I'd buy it in a second. First and foremost, it's more legible, immediately knowable what time it is, than the Glycine it's built on. There is a number for each hour on the dial, mandatory for me. Colors on the dial fulfill function before form. The illustration of mountains is subtle and well done. I like the date being moved to 6. I've always preferred 12 not 24 at top because I don't want to lose the macro of sun above.

obviously big thumbs up from me.

now that I look at it again, I would say make the mountains less angular, something more opaque, not all the way to ethereal, but hinting at it. Something softer on the belly of the dial would contrast nicely with the needed busyness of the dial.

The stock Glycine is comparatively drab.

Would Glycine do a run for us? :-d Or Mitch at AirNautic?


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## RVO3VOM (Nov 27, 2006)

I'll take one if I can get......

- white background
- "0" instead of "24" - I say zero hundred, not 24 hundred hours at midnight
- no new red numbers or markers, in fact, remove all the red except for the "Base 22"

Where do I sign up?  

∞


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## jimmy jones (Aug 6, 2009)

Woo Hoo im in the majority!


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## DM71 (Feb 6, 2009)

I also appreciate the effort, but it's way too busy for me. The airman already has a busy dial and the added colors and graphics on the dial just make it too much for me. I have an airman SST-06 purist with 24h at the top and an Airman Special II with 12H at the top and I can also say that I much prefer having 24h at the top. Each time I wear the Airman Special II, I need like 15 sec to figure the time in the dark using only the lumed dot. I also wish it was a 0 instead of a 24.


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

there are watches that are beautiful, like this 24hr watch face, but not on the wrist, not usually. That wouldn't stop me from collecting it, long as I loved it enough to not have it on my wrist.


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

IMO:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it?


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## Dennis Smith (Feb 15, 2006)

Excellent post. Really great discussion.


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## ThomasAn (Aug 1, 2008)

I took some of the suggestions and reworked / simplified the design a little while keeping the overall theme.

Is it getting warmer ? Colder ?


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## JonMarchant (Apr 21, 2006)

Well I like it, but I like 12 at top meself  What did you use to draw it?


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## ThomasAn (Aug 1, 2008)

JonMarchant said:


> Well I like it, but I like 12 at top meself  What did you use to draw it?


Thanks Jon, it is all done in Illustrator.


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## primerak (Sep 1, 2010)

I like the re-worked simplier version, now I would prefer this over the original.


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## DanC (Dec 25, 2010)

I really like the updated design, that looks great.


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## peagreen (May 11, 2006)

ThomasAn said:


> I took some of the suggestions and reworked / simplified the design a little while keeping the overall theme.
> 
> Is it getting warmer ? Colder ?
> View attachment 555712


Much warmer. I like this a lot. 
Noon at the top.
Clear, uncluttered.
Very clear distinction between hour and minute hands.
The date window at midnight is very nice. As the hour hand passes over it, it wipes the slate clean from the day just ended and leaves behind the new date.
How much will this put me back?


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## KXL (Jan 12, 2008)

Love your first version---simply brilliant. Would buy it in a heartbeat.


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## ThomasAn (Aug 1, 2008)

I wonder if there is a way to encode these watch faces into a smartwatch (like the Amazfit GTR).


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## Ftumch (Sep 18, 2017)

I like the very first one most. Mountain image I'd skip, but love the bold red and yellow.


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm not a fan, but to each his own. To me, the old pure tool watch Swiss Made Glycine models were more desirable than the hobbyist pieces we're seeing in recent years.


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## ned-ludd (Apr 8, 2017)

ThomasAn said:


> I wonder if there is a way to encode these watch faces into a smartwatch (like the Amazfit GTR).


I'm sure there is but why would you? It's no substitute at all for the real thing.


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## peagreen (May 11, 2006)

There are several apps, at least there are for Wear OS watches, that will give you the tools to design and create your own watchface that matches your wishes exactly.
Simply enter "watchface designer" in the google play store for suggestions. 
Mister Ludd is correct with his remark that it's no substitute for an original, but the original doesn't show notifications, count steps, measure heart rate et cetera.


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