# Defective Citizen bn0150-10e bezel?



## nick101 (Mar 24, 2016)

I just received a brand new Citizen BN0150-10E Promaster Diver I had purchased from Jomashop and one thing about the watch struck me as odd. The rotating bezel has a small amount of vertical play, allowing me to depress it about .010" before it pops back up. I've never owned a dive watch before and I wanted to know if this is normal for a dive watch with a rotating bezel or if I should return the watch as defective? Thanks!


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## hongkongtaipan (Oct 28, 2015)

I just checked mine and it, too, has a minute amount of depresssion. That appears to be normal. There is a bezel spring in dive watches and that may account for this. Just turn the metal part of the bezel and don't worry about the small amout of play in the black part with the numbers.


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## francobollo (Oct 8, 2010)

Bezel play seems to be common with Citizen divers in general.
I only found this out recently because my new Citizen Signature Diver BL1258-53L A.K.A Courageous has the problem, and I researched the issue on WUS.
Checked all of my other Citizen divers (some almost 10 years old) and low and behold all of them had the same issue to some degree.
Enjoy your new BN0150 (I have the same one and love it).
francobollo


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## zabat (Sep 14, 2014)

I have a Citizen NY-2300 and it does the same thing. Sometimes I sort of play with it, like worrying a loose tooth... It's "normal".


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## Davidka (Apr 1, 2014)

My bn0150 bezel is solid as a rock. No play what so ever and sits tight on the case.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

My first post but long time lurker. I just received my new Citizen Promaster BN0150-10E also from Jomashop today. Exactly what Nick the OP reported. Hard to quantify but I have owned several divers and have never felt the level of vertical play/compliance in any bezel that exists in this watch. Rotational play isn't bad or a disqualifier but suffice to say I am most unhappy with the clearance aka spring loaded compliance of the watch 90 degrees to the crystal plane. Disappointing. A quick preface. Initially, I purchased the blue edition to this identical watch and returned it because I didn't like the hue of blue of the dial. The bezel by contrast did NOT display this quality and was tight. So pretty clear Citizen has variation in its manufacturing process of the bezel. A too broad range of acceptability in their build tolerance.

A question please to those that have purchased watches from Jomashop. How personal is their service on returns? I may end of being caught in a do loop if returning this model watch only to receive another with the same issue. I would like someone at their company to evaluate one for me prior to shipping. They may for example consider this 'normal'.

Anybody know somebody at Jomashop to speak with? No doubt they are a pretty well known supplier on this watch forum.

Thanks


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## mi6_ (Jan 7, 2015)

My BN0151-09L and Excaliber have no play at all in the bezel. In fact they're the best bezels I've ever handled. Sounds like something is wrong with your watch. Mine were both purchased from authorized dealers. Maybe Jomashop is selling a bad batch?


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## twall3 (Jan 28, 2013)

mi6_ said:


> My BN0151-09L and Excaliber have no play at all in the bezel. In fact they're the best bezels I've ever handled. Sounds like something is wrong with your watch. Mine were both purchased from authorized dealers. Maybe Jomashop is selling a bad batch?


I've owned two Excalibers and one had some of the vertical play you've mentioned, the other didn't. Same story with the two BN0000s I owned (one black, one pepsi). Owned an NY2300 and it too had some vertical play. My BN0151 had none. So, I think it's a bit hit-or-miss with the Citizens, but I'll definitely say that in all cases, the bezels are damn difficult to remove (waaaaaaaaay tighter than any Seiko bezel I've ever encountered), so even with the slight vertical play, I wouldn't worry about it coming off.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

An informative thread about the variation in Citizen diver bezel build variation and my thanks to everybody that has contributed.

I am also a mechanical engineer so tend to peer through the lens of design intent versus permissible manufacturing variation. There is also the aspect of bezel serviceability that Twall mentioned and in the case of the Eco Drive Promaster, bezel fitment....the bottom or skirt of the bezel, the watch design preordains that this is a line-to-line fitment to the case of the watch...shaped like a tuna can with a seam as many know that have seen these watches. Which begs the question, without some degree of vertical freedom aka displacement 90 degrees to the plane of the crystal surface, to my mind, it would be impossible to remove the bezel because there is no bevel to the watch case to allow purchase of an extraction tool. So, I tend to think in terms of 'what if'...this was design intent? Maybe/maybe not.

But...the counter argument to this almost push button like bezel feel being 'design intent' is...there are more than a few Citizen Promasters out there that don't feel like a door bell button when you push down on the bezel. So, a lottery basically when you open a new Citizen watch box.

I want to share a good conversation I just had with Leo at Jomashop this morning. I explained the situation including referencing the constructive comments on this forum about owner's experiences. He is going to email me a shipping return label. I told Leo I am a watch collector and would be happy to work with Citizen but he said, he didn't have a contact. I told him if Jomashop sent me a replacement BN0150-10E, I could easily get another with a push button bezel. So I asked him, prior to sending me another Promaster, if he would have somebody check the box to ensure the bezel was correct. He said, he would do this and the watch coming to me would be evaluated for bezel vertical play.

I will be sure to update this thread in the next week or so. I would love to speak with a Citizen rep with a hot line to Japan to see if their company line is...vertical play is 'within the scope of the design'...but won't happen on my end but not without trying. If there is a Citizen representative that monitors this forum, of course I would love their input. I would abandon this watch completely if I didn't like so many elements of the watch design. I really like the watch on many levels.

My thoughts.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

Took a while...but replacement BN0150-28E (black dial Eco Drive) Citizen diver watch is in transit and supposed to arrive this Friday. I asked Jomashop to pick one out of their inventory with a tight bezel in the vertical direction relative to the plane of the crystal aka bezel doesn't feel like a door bell button and send it to me if they would. Customer service said they would

Will report what the bezel feels like when the watch arrives.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

I tried. 
Just received replacement BN0150-28E (black dial Eco Drive) Citizen diver watch from Jomashop. I requested they evaluate and pull from their inventory a 'tighter' bezel variant from their stock of these watches. I wish I could say pure success but there wasn't in this case. The watch I received still has vertical displacement of the bezel if pushing on it..though less than the 'door bell button' like displacement of the last BN0150. And further, I would say the rotational play is perhaps a bit worse on this watch...borderline acceptable in terms of rotational play or looseness. So after much...too much...consideration, I am keeping the watch for the pure reason that I love the size, weight and aesthetic albeit without the crappy tapered band....replaced by a nitrile orange non taper 20mm band which looks perfect and is much more comfortable.

I admit, this issue is a conundrum with Citizen and there maybe even be an element of design intent with this tuna can bezel to watch case fit...unclear...or they let a spectrum of tolerances out the door because there is little perceived downside. And will provide a stark contrast for comparison. A major pet peeve of watch lovers? When a quartz movement with second hand placement....where the second hand doesn't agree with second gradations on the dial. That bugs a lot of people and I am not a fan either FWIW. But as reported by several Eco Drive owners, Citizen to their credit unlike too many Seikos...even a quartz GS Seiko here and there, this watch nails the second hand hash marks. So credit to Citizen. Further the fit and finish of this watch is superb. And lastly, over night after a brief afternoon sun charge and initially the watch struggling to keep time, the watch kept time to the second over night. 

On balance, I believe Citizen nailed this watch but Citizen's bezels continue to be an enigma as widely reported here and elsewhere.


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## Tseg (Mar 29, 2014)

Sounds like the bezel is not defective, rather a design execution you do not prefer.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

A great point. A philosophical position. Personal preference clearly enters the equation. In fact it affects the design paradigm. I know the Japanese well. Citizen has an in house torque spec for that bezel...a tolerance of acceptability. In fact, I am sure they have done correlation studies between rotating torque and bezel mating part tolerance stack up with their pedantic attention to detail. All said, the counterpoint to your hypothesis is the creation of this thread. I was not the original poster. If a survey was taken throughout the watch industry, I would say the typical paradigm is...a dive watch bezel when pushing vertically on it to the plane of the crystral...it shouldn't feel like a door bell button. I don't believe this is too much of a leap. None of my diver watches display this characteristic....60 click or 120 click...and yet 2 out of 3 Citizen Eco Drive Promasters brand new have this characteristic in my experience.

And to explore the other side of the equation...bezels that are too tight which is a real annoyance as well, look no further than the new Orient Ray II. I have come across a couple...2 for 2...that you better bring your A game to budge the bezel to turn it. This is a common complaint on that watch.

I think perhaps the objection about the Citizen Promaster Eco Drive is the 'variation' in bezel looseness. Some are rock solid and a very firm detented click and others are not. This is a function of the quality variation of the brand and not their design objective.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

And now, the conclusion to the story if not a mini rant.

In summary, I order two black BN0150-28E watches from Jomashop&#8230;the same seller the original poster ordered from. All three had loose bezels&#8230;notable vertical spring loaded displacement 90 degrees to the plane of the crystal. When I returned the first watch after a long conversation with Jomashop, I asked them to check the next watch they would be sending me prior to shipment. They apparently didn't&#8230;or&#8230;they didn't have a good watch in their inventory and decided to ship it anyway. I even included this request in a note with the watch I returned. Hard to know which. Let's say they didn't put any effort into checking their inventory and just sent me the first watch they pulled. No note like&#8230;hey, we tried to find you a tight bezel BN0150 but couldn't find one in stock because they are all that way. Instead they sent me another watch with a similar loose bezel...different watch because I checked the serial numbers So this lack of contact after my effort bothered me and after thinking about it and 'doubting it is design intent', I returned the second watch to Jomashop and decided to take one more try and order the same watch from Amazon which just arrived.

All this effort was worth it. Success. A perfect watch. Literally&#8230;in all regards. One of the best 60 click bezels I have 'ever' felt. Rock solid, no vertical play, and dead solid tight clicks rotationally. Further the watch over two days has kept time to the second on a minimal charge, second hand lines up precisely with hash marks and overall fit and finish is flawless. I am extremely pleased with this watch.

So its unclear what is going on with Citizen and/or Jomashop. Again, I brought this to their attention. If they opened their inventory and they are all like that, then they could of told me this and let me know they are working this issue with Citizen. Or Jomashop is knowingly buying 'rejected'stock of these watches at a lower price from a third party and 'dumping' them on the market. I have no idea because Jomashop isn't talking and the forum here now has three data points from Jomashop with a loose bezel and I am 1 for 1 for a perfect quality same watch model no. from Amazon.

Purpose of me writing this is two fold:


The loose bezel is NOT design intent from Citizen
Jomashop for whatever reason is selling these watches with loose bezels, which when asked, has been less than up front. They could have told me when looking into it....sorry, they are all that way in our inventory so it is your choice if you want us to send you another.

My response to them is 'you suck' Jomashop. Last watch I will try to buy from you. Word up to those interested in this watch.


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## Tseg (Mar 29, 2014)

Glad you found what you are looking for. BTW, design execution is different that design intent. i.e., the execution of design tends to cause play. It probably is not defective... it is just the way it is. When I move my Rolex GMT hour hand with the crown it has a crisp feel, when I do the same with my Grand Seiko GMT it is a spongy feel. They both function perfectly. I'm not sure Grand Seiko intended the spongy feel "ooo, this is too crisp, how can we make it more spungy?"... rather when the design was executed it resulted in a spongy feel. The buyer is either ok with it or not. For all I know that spongy feel may create residual performance/durability benefit I'm not privy to. The question about Citizen watches with play in the bezel is will that play cause it to break prematurely? I'm suspecting the answer is 'no'. Other than the feel of it, does it look different than the 'good' one you have now? I suspect the answer is 'no'.


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## fish70 (Oct 12, 2006)

I'm glad I don't sell discounted $150 dive watches! I am very happy with Jomashop and wouldn't dare to ask a company to hand pick a $150 watch for me. I collect guns and it is customary to pay a fee for a company to hand pick a gun for you.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

Well, you and I will have little common ground I believe based upon what you wrote. Design has been my life's work. I have worked in R&D my entire life and design is what I do and what I know. The public doesn't have a clue. They just know what they like and this varies greatly and many settle at some level.
The two Citizen watches I received were 'defective.' The VAST contrast in bezel function cannot be explained other than an 'out of control' manufacturing process.

If you know the truth about ANY products, this happens all the time on mass produced products....how statistical process control came in existence....to control this variation. The Japanese are very adept at SPC for what its worth in this case which makes their variation even less acceptable. A tighter control on their process has a cost and more stringent control on their build quality can increase their reject rate, why they don't employ tighter controls...just like why Seiko ships a lottery of quality associated with how their bezels align with their dials.

Sounds as though however you are a perfect candidate for a Citizen with a loose bezel. Not me. So if Citizen shipped these crappy bezel watches accepting this wide disparity knowing the public would accept them on some level, then they are right to do so. You are such a person. Not me. I wanted one their properly manufactured watches and found one through dogged trial and error. Many in fact know this even at the layman's level going in and always order two identical model watches off Amazon and end up keeping the best quality watch and shipping the less desirable watch back. This in effect is the public performing their own quality audit if it is failed at the watch manufacturer level and it can be.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

fish70 said:


> I'm glad I don't sell discounted $150 dive watches! I am very happy with Jomashop and wouldn't dare to ask a company to hand pick a $150 watch for me. I collect guns and it is customary to pay a fee for a company to hand pick a gun for you.


hear ya fish. Especially when watch companies put a wide quality array of product out in the field. I would have paid a fee to have them pull a good watch FWIW.

And fish, like Tseg, you would have been perfectly happy with a loose, rattle-y bezel.
Learn it, love it, live it...lol.


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## fish70 (Oct 12, 2006)

I get where you are coming from automan69 and it's your money. For that amount I personally wouldn't be bothered by the bezel since it won't effect the function of the watch. I also don't send food orders back at cheap restaurants if the food is edible. It is just a personal thing.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

To let you know, I don't have a fussy palette and never send food orders back either.

So if you think about it fish, Citizen is right to ship crappy product. A loose rattle-y bezel that can move easily if bumped by a shirt sleeve or if diving underwater. You are fine with either scenario. Good to know. 

To some guys who don't dive with a computer, I guess their air supply doesn't matter and they can breath underwater. Nothing to see here tho. Everybody just move along...lol. Poor Charley should have worn a Rolex.


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## fish70 (Oct 12, 2006)

automan69 said:


> To let you know, I don't have a fussy palette and never send food orders back either.
> 
> So if you think about it fish, Citizen is right to ship crappy product. A loose rattle-y bezel that can move easily if bumped by a shirt sleeve or if diving underwater. You are fine with either scenario. Good to know.
> 
> To some guys who don't dive with a computer, I guess their air supply doesn't matter and they can breath underwater. Nothing to see here tho. Everybody just move along...lol. Poor Charley should have worn a Rolex.


I probably wouldn't trust my life to a $150 watch. Nobody on this thread said the bezel is easily moved. I certainly wouldn't trust my SNZH bezel to mark a time that was life or death. I move it by mistake all the time.


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

fish70 said:


> I probably wouldn't trust my life to a $150 watch. Nobody on this thread said the bezel is easily moved. I certainly wouldn't trust my SNZH bezel to mark a time that was life or death. I move it by mistake all the time.


Price of the watch has little to do with how robust a given bezel is..or even how well it keeps time. Further most quartz watches are less prone to vibration damage. There have been Rolexes with loose bezels.


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## Irish9004 (Jun 30, 2017)

New member and first time poster here but wanted to share my experience.

I too, like Automan, received a BN0150 from jomashop with the vertical play in the bezel. It makes a clicking sound if it hits the cuff of a shirt right. Now that I know it's there, I wouldn't be able to get it out of my mind if I kept the watch. So back it goes.

I reached out to CS at Joma and have outlined what was discussed in this thread and expressed my concern with simply exchanging the watch based on your experience. Depending how my conversation with them goes I may end up purchasing the watch from LongIslandWatch as I've only read positive reviews about this dealer. 

Automan, how much did you snag the promaster for on Amazon? I checked there first but the price has jumped anywhere from $197-$220. At $149.00 from Joma and $167 from LongIslandWatch (plus 10% discount for members of WUS from what I hear) that's a bit of a jump.

Cheers


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## Irish9004 (Jun 30, 2017)

automan69 said:


> And now, the conclusion to the story if not a mini rant.
> 
> In summary, I order two black BN0150-28E watches from Jomashop?the same seller the original poster ordered from. All three had loose bezels?notable vertical spring loaded displacement 90 degrees to the plane of the crystal. When I returned the first watch after a long conversation with Jomashop, I asked them to check the next watch they would be sending me prior to shipment. They apparently didn?t?or?they didn?t have a good watch in their inventory and decided to ship it anyway. I even included this request in a note with the watch I returned. Hard to know which. Let?s say they didn't put any effort into checking their inventory and just sent me the first watch they pulled. No note like?hey, we tried to find you a tight bezel BN0150 but couldn?t find one in stock because they are all that way. Instead they sent me another watch with a similar loose bezel...different watch because I checked the serial numbers So this lack of contact after my effort bothered me and after thinking about it and 'doubting it is design intent', I returned the second watch to Jomashop and decided to take one more try and order the same watch from Amazon which just arrived.
> 
> ...


New member and first time poster here but wanted to share my experience.

I too, like Automan, received a BN0150 from jomashop with the vertical play in the bezel. It makes a clicking sound if it hits the cuff of a shirt right. Now that I know it's there, I wouldn't be able to get it out of my mind if I kept the watch. So back it goes.

I reached out to CS at Joma and have outlined what was discussed in this thread and expressed my concern with simply exchanging the watch based on your experience. Depending how my conversation with them goes I may end up purchasing the watch from LongIslandWatch as I've only read positive reviews about this dealer. 

Automan, how much did you snag the promaster for on Amazon? I checked there first but the price has jumped anywhere from $197-$220. At $149.00 from Joma and $167 from LongIslandWatch (plus 10% discount for members of WUS from what I hear) that's a bit of a jump.

Cheers

(sorry for double post but didn't quote the first one)


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## automan69 (Apr 14, 2017)

I paid a bit more for the BN-0150-28E from Amazon as I recall.
Keep in mind, I ordered two from Jomashop. After the first, I called them and asked them to check the second before sending it out to me. They obviously didn't. No note. Nothing reflecting they looked through their inventory and all they had was this watch with loose bezels. Not acceptable. The watch I purchased from Amazon has been perfect and the bezel is as good as any dive watch I own.

I have bought watches from Marc at Long Island. What you could do is...send Marc an email, reflect the issue with this watch and see if he can pull you one from his inventory with a tight bezel...if he has one in stock with a robust bezel. Doesn't hurt to ask.
This watch with perfect bezel action does exist is the point. They aren't all sloppy. I was 2 for 2 from Jomashop with a loose bezel and 1 for 1 from Amazon with a tight bezel. 
Good luck.

PS: I won't buy another watch from Jomashop based upon my experience. I'm typically a pretty understanding guy but when the customer service rep lied to me about their support...he said they would check their inventory. They could have called me and said, hey we looked but all the bezels on this model are loose. But no...they went ahead and shipped another watch as bad as the first one. Unacceptable.


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## Irish9004 (Jun 30, 2017)

automan69 said:


> I paid a bit more for the BN-0150-28E from Amazon as I recall.
> Keep in mind, I ordered two from Jomashop. After the first, I called them and asked them to check the second before sending it out to me. They obviously didn't. No note. Nothing reflecting they looked through their inventory and all they had was this watch with loose bezels. Not acceptable. The watch I purchased from Amazon has been perfect and the bezel is as good as any dive watch I own.
> 
> I have bought watches from Marc at Long Island. What you could do is...send Marc an email, reflect the issue with this watch and see if he can pull you one from his inventory with a tight bezel...if he has one in stock with a robust bezel. Doesn't hurt to ask.
> ...


Sorry for the late reply... but I just wanted you to know I had the same experience on my second BN0150 from Joma. The bezel had the same play as the original.

I finally got around to ordering the BN0150 from Long Island Watch as Citizen was sold out on Amazon and was only available from other retailers for $220.

It was $167 with free shipping.

I will report back once I receive this one.

As far as shopping with Joma, I'm torn on using them again. I have purchased some Daniel Wellington and Michael Kors watches with out incident but the two defective citizen watches I received along with my customer service experience are making me question using them again.

Cheers


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## JAD123 (Apr 16, 2018)

Irish9004 said:


> Sorry for the late reply... but I just wanted you to know I had the same experience on my second BN0150 from Joma. The bezel had the same play as the original.
> 
> I finally got around to ordering the BN0150 from Long Island Watch as Citizen was sold out on Amazon and was only available from other retailers for $220.
> 
> ...


How did it turn out? I actually just received a BN0150-61E (with the Citizen steel bracelet) from Long Island Watch and I'm sad to say that it's got the wonky bezel. I was really bummed because other than that I really like the watch. The return policy is that you pay for return shipping, but I'm going to email and ask that they pay for the return shipping as I'm returning due to the springy bezel.


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## Kessel (Jun 23, 2018)

Ordered one from Jomashop last month, had the same loose bezel issue as others have described here. Paid $44 customs/duty/tax getting it into Canada so not keen on sending it back. Loved the watch but this issue was driving me nuts. After some research I had the feeling the issue had something to do with the rubber gasket not sitting right. Not wanting to pop the bezel off and risk scratching my new watch I came up with a "non-invasive" approach which seems to have fixed the issue. I soaked the watch in warm tap water to heat it up and smeared some vasoline around the crystal. Then I used my thumb to push the vasoline down inbetween the bezel and the crystal. I then rotated the bezel a few times around and repeated this whole process 3 or 4 times. This solved the problem and the bezel is now sitting flat and tight. 

In retrospect, probably should have used plumbers silicone instead of vasoline. Not sure if the bezel will get clogged with dirt long term, but pretty darn happy the result at the moment.


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## Watch N user (Aug 11, 2020)

Hi i am new here, can anyone please help me with finding where i can buy a rotating bezel (a complete set) to my watch citizen BN150-28e


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