# Is a Calibre H-10 the same as a 2824-2?



## mbott

Just received my new Hamilton Khaki Field Auto H70595963 watch and was expecting the calibre to be marked H-10 as described on the Hamilton Watch website H70595963 - Khaki Field Auto 40mm | Hamilton Watch. Instead the case is marked 2824-2. I'm confused by this difference. I have a call into the dealer who has a call into Hamilton. Anyone shed some light on this? *UPDATE:* I'm being told that they are able to get the 80 hours reserve from the 2824-2 due to a frequency change. I'm thinking there might be another change made to the 2824-2 to do this, too.

Thanks!

-- 
Mike


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## tinknocker

Here you go

Hamilton Calibers | Hamilton University


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## mbott

tinknocker,

Thanks, I'm aware of that page. What I wasn't aware of is that the calibre H-series was an upgrade to the 2824-2 movement. But the movement described and pictured is what the H70595963 has. 

-- 
Mike


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## Betterthere

pictures would still be good! never mind i see them


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## jaime4022

mbott said:


> Just received my new Hamilton Khaki Field Auto H70595963 watch and was expecting the calibre to be marked H-10 as described on the Hamilton Watch website H70595963 - Khaki Field Auto 40mm | Hamilton Watch. Instead the case is marked 2824-2. I'm confused by this difference. I have a call into the dealer who has a call into Hamilton. Anyone shed some light on this? *UPDATE:* I'm being told that they are able to get the 80 hours reserve from the 2824-2 due to a frequency change. I'm thinking there might be another change made to the 2824-2 to do this, too.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Mike


So wait! Does this mean that they have lowered the BPH from 28,000 to 21,600? When I searched on the Hamilton Calibers page, it read that they had improved the spring in order to achieve the 80 hour power reserve. It also states a number of other work they did to the movement. Do you think it is just hype? I am interested in the same watch and am about to pull the trigger. How do you like the watch? Does it hack and wind as every other 2824-2 or is that different in this version?


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## Betterthere

jaime4022 said:


> So wait! Does this mean that they have lowered the BPH from 28,000 to 21,600?


yes


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## ChiefWahoo

Mike, depending where you bought the watch, it could just be the older model with the stock 2824. I'm not sure when they started offering the H calibres, but I thought the newer ones had that designation. 

Personally, I'd prefer the 28k bpm over the longer PR. Disappointed this is how they achieved more PR. I started buying Swiss watches specifically for the higher beat ETA movement.


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## nello

Eta/tissot powermatic 80. Try searching that. Or just tissot powermatic 80. I have been very pleased with mine. Each wind equals about an hour of reserve. I did not want to wind mine 80 times to test this and I have no winder. I wound it 50 times and wore it a day ,making a hand stirring a pot of soup motion when I thought of it. Within 2 seconds after 70 hours plus. I never count the first second when timing, even with a hacking movement. There is also a chronometer grade of this movement offered by tissot. Not sure if hamilton offers this. Don't think so.


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## cprrckwlf

nello said:


> Eta/tissot powermatic 80. Try searching that. Or just tissot powermatic 80. I have been very pleased with mine. Each wind equals about an hour of reserve. I did not want to wind mine 80 times to test this and I have no winder. I wound it 50 times and wore it a day ,making a hand stirring a pot of soup motion when I thought of it. Within 2 seconds after 70 hours plus. I never count the first second when timing, even with a hacking movement. There is also a chronometer grade of this movement offered by tissot. Not sure if hamilton offers this. Don't think so.


Except the 80hr reserves on the powermatics are also achieved largely the same way: by dropping the frequency from 4 Hz (28800 bph) to 3 Hz (21600 bph). They predate the Hamilton 80hr versions by a year or two (but I think they came a year after the longer reserve chronos (H-21/31). I do like what they've done with the Powermatic and Seastar designs, though.


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## nello

^i guess I was a little unclear. From what I have read, it is the same eta movement, initially made for tissots lines. The only differences being decoration of the rotor in the base grade.


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## cprrckwlf

nello said:


> ^i guess I was a little unclear. From what I have read, it is the same eta movement, initially made for tissots lines. The only differences being decoration of the rotor in the base grade.


Gotcha, sorry. I read it as a contrast to chief's complaint.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mcarter7

Does anyone know, finally, what exactly are the differences between the 80 hour versions and 40 hour versions of this movement? Did they basically just lower the beat rate, or did they also enhance the spring and/or do other things? I would think lowering the beat rate by 25% would increase reserve by 25%, not by 100%. But then, I don't know anything really about watch movements.


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## chris39bong

I got this info from the Hamilton University website.

--
H-10, H-30 and H-40, a trio of new Hamilton movements developed with ETA , boasts a typical power reserve of 80 hours.
The following elements have been modified:

-	The entire kinematic chain has been refined, from the barrel to the escapement 
-	The escapement regulator has been suppressed, facilitating optimal reliability and precision
-	The main spring has been improved to increase a typical power reserve of 80 hours.
-	The mono-block rotor is distinctively skeletonized with an "H" shape and aviation-inspired cut-outs, a signature of individualization.

*H-10* Hours, Minutes, Seconds, Date function 
*H-30* Hours, Minutes, Seconds, Weekday and Date function 
*H-40* Hours, Minutes, Seconds, Weekday and Date function
--

As others have mentioned, this modified H-10 has a lower frequency than the standard ETA it's based on, but personally, I'd much rather have the H-10's rare 80 hour power reserve over the ETA's higher frequency.


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## bellbrass

It seems as though a lot of the Swatch-owned brands are switching to this type of movement - the lower bph (21,600) and increased power reserve. My Mido Commander Chronometer has one of those - very accurate, but I don't like the lower bph. Will these 80-hour automatic movements soon be ubiquitous in the Swatch kingdom?


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## oztech

To me the H-10's accuracy so far is a welcomed improvement now time will tell as to it's durability but one thing should be obvious slowing the movement should extend the service life.


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## wiser66

oztech said:


> To me the H-10's accuracy so far is a welcomed improvement now time will tell as to it's durability but one thing should be obvious slowing the movement should extend the service life.


To me this benefit outweighs the slightly less smooth second hand. It's nice to know that you shouldn't have to worry about servicing for a long, long time


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## lvt

Slowing down the beat rate doesn't necessarily extend the recommended service interval because it doesn't help with some critical parts like the auto-winding mechanism. And movements working at higher beat-rate might have less build-up residus in the escapement assembly than movements with lower beat-rate as they run smoother.

Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


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## Ke0bfy

the H-10 has this rotor.... with the "H" cut out









image from jomashop


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## dbond

Wouldn't say that's the case...

Here's a link for a Hamilton Khaki Aviation with a ETA 2824-2 movement, as you can see from the photo the rotor is the updated variant with the "H" cut out on the older movement. If you look closely on the back of the case 2824-2 is engraved in the back of it. www.ashford.com /images/catalog/hamilton/khaki-aviation/H76665725-SD_BXA.jpg

Photo is from Ashford's website they offer both the 2824-2 and H-10 movement in the Hamilton Khaki Aviation watch. 
Here's a photo of the H-10 movement:
http;//www .ashford .com/us/watches/hamilton/khaki-aviation/H76665835.pid?nid=cpg cat6032&so=1


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## 2manywatchs

dbond said:


> Wouldn't say that's the case...
> 
> Here's a link for a Hamilton Khaki Aviation with a ETA 2824-2 movement, as you can see from the photo the rotor is the updated variant with the "H" cut out on the older movement. If you look closely on the back of the case 2824-2 is engraved in the back of it. www.ashford.com /images/catalog/hamilton/khaki-aviation/H76665725-SD_BXA.jpg
> 
> Photo is from Ashford's website they offer both the 2824-2 and H-10 movement in the Hamilton Khaki Aviation watch.
> Here's a photo of the H-10 movement:
> http;//www .ashford .com/us/watches/hamilton/khaki-aviation/H76665835.pid?nid=cpg cat6032&so=1


That's a mismatch. Was Hamilton trying to use up their extra screw-down case backs or something? Or did Ashford switched them (unlikely)? Who knows? However...

If you look at the balance wheel on the photo in your first link, the regulating pins are absent. That's the Hamilton H10/ETA Powermatic 80 (ETA C07.111), not the 2824-2. 








On the photo via your second link, the adjustments are clearly evident. That's the 2824-2.









I looked into this when I bought my Hammy. I have the H10 in my H70625133 (Hour/Minute/Second/Date).









Here's a great YouTube video by Bruce Williams comparing the two movements in the Khaki King.


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## PeekPoke

The Hamilton Calibers page preserved at the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20170302103137/http://new.hamilton-uni.com/en/hamiltonCalibers


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## Voyager57

How do you tell what models have the cheaper plastic parts. I thought I read the 25 jewel Chronometer rated Powermatic 80 does not incorporate plastic. Anyone know if that’s true?


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## Rickster27b

I think the Video by Bruce Williams was well crafted and gave an even handed appraisal of both watch movements. I will say I have one of the newer Kaki Field watches featuring the new H10 Powermatic 80 .. it does keep very good time.

Rick


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## Racontour

The ETA 2824 is a little different from the Hamilton H series movement.
Correct me if I am wrong:
The new H series movement uses a silicon spring and I think no escapment to get lower beat and 80 hour power reserve. But should anything go wrong with movement you have to replace the whole movement. 
The 2824 is the most well known and has replacement parts available and watchmakers are proficient in servicing these movements.

Me? I would go with the 2824.
I might still by an H series movement watch.

,


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## Sir-Guy

I’m not sure what you mean by no escapement...but from what I understand, they are serviceable. Besides, if you send a watch with a lower-grade 2824-2 to the mothership (Swatch service) they will lowly replace the movement anyway. It is cheaper and faster than taking it apart, assessing wear, replacing some parts as needed, and putting it back in.


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## pointeau

I see this thread is still active, so...I've owned dozens of watches over the years with the ETA 2824 movement, and while it is a reliable and fairly accurate movement, it doesn't compare to the 2892-A2 movement found in better watches and Hamilton still uses it in some of its watches, notably the Jazzmaster Slim and Thinline series. Nowadays if I buy a new watch I try to buy one that has the 2892-A2 movement, although I made an exception just lately and bought a couple Glycine Combat Subs, one with the 2824-2 and one with the Sellita clone SW200 movement; had they been much more than the $300 or so I paid at Jomashop and Ashford, I may have thought twice about buying them. The 2824 is running about 10-15 seconds fast per day, while the Sellita is 2-3 secs off per day. Not bad for either, but I also bought a Hamilton Jazzmaster Slim Sub Seconde with the 2895-A2 and it is dead on after three days of running. As with other watches with the 2892 movement, it is one of the most reliable movements I've ever owned, bar none, including Rolex.


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## CMHwatch1

oztech said:


> To me the H-10's accuracy so far is a welcomed improvement now time will tell as to it's durability but one thing should be obvious slowing the movement should extend the service life.


I'm getting +1 second per *4 days* with my Khaki Auto 40mm with the H70 variant!


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## CMHwatch1

CMHwatch1 said:


> I'm getting +1 second per *4 days* with my Khaki Auto 40mm with the H70 variant!


Sorry, meant to write H-10, not H-70.


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