# Citizen Skyhawk Atomic Problem with DST Change



## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

Has anyone else notice that the Skyhawk AT is basically not changing the SMT (Daylight Savings Time) setting correctly automatically?

I am located in LAX zone and no joy. Even when I set SMT to OFF manually, if RX-S is set to AU(to) then it still thinks daylight savings time is ON.

In the meantime, my three Casio's have no problems dealing with this change automatically.

What a shame on an otherwise very good watch.


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## TCXO (Jan 2, 2007)

Exact same problem with my new Citizen Attesa ATV53-2834 (U60 caliber) today. It registered high RX signal strength overnight. The Casio G-shock beside it correctly changed from DST to standard time. 

I thought the AUtomatic setting in the RX-Set mode took priority regardless of World Time DST/ST setting. I was surprised and disappointed to see the failure to correctly auto switch DST/ST today. I am in UTC -5 (NYC) time zone.


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## HRH Adam (Oct 26, 2007)

Hey, when did your G Shock change? When I set my Oceanus 700 to "Auto/AT" DST, it was incorrect until the actual it synced right after the actual time change.. I think... I could be wrong..... how does this all work? Were our Casio-based watches set to simply know the date of the old DST schedule, hence the error, but then got the new information around 2am [1am?] How does this bode for the next DST period change 6 months from now?

A



TCXO said:


> Exact same problem with my new Citizen Attesa ATV53-2834 (U60 caliber) today. It registered high RX signal strength overnight. The Casio G-shock beside it correctly changed from DST to standard time.
> 
> I thought the AUtomatic setting in the RX-Set mode took priority regardless of World Time DST/ST setting. I was surprised and disappointed to see the failure to correctly auto switch DST/ST today. I am in UTC -5 (NYC) time zone.


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## TCXO (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi Adam,

Thanks. Your hypothesis of time of RC synchronization during the DST to ST transition sounds interesting. My Citizen Attesa AT is set to sync at 2 am and retry again if the previous sync was not successful (3 am retry, 4 am retry). I do not know the sync times for my old Casio G-Shock Tough Solar.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

I did a manual sync this morning at 6AM. No joy. Still wrong DST setting.



TCXO said:


> Hi Adam,
> 
> Thanks. Your hypothesis of time of RC synchronization during the DST to ST transition sounds interesting. My Citizen Attesa AT is set to sync at 2 am and retry again if the previous sync was not successful (3 am retry, 4 am retry). I do not know the sync times for my old Casio G-Shock Tough Solar.


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## TCXO (Jan 2, 2007)

Found my Casio G-Shock Tough Solar manual (modules 2608, 2638, 2688). Auto receive calibration at 2 am, 3 am, 4 am, 5 am daily. My understanding is that _auto receive is performed at each of these times even if the previous auto receive was successful_.


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## TCXO (Jan 2, 2007)

I tried a manual sync without success this morning but I was holding it and moving it about which might account for the manual sync failure. I manually turned DST (SMT) off for UTC -5 (NYC) to get the time correct. The RX-Set was left in AUto. I will see if it works properly overnight.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

The Citizen Skyhawk will sync only once per night. It does retry at 3 and 4 if it can not sync at 2. It will also allow for the 4am sync to be moved to any time during the day.

I emailed Citizen of America tech support, they said to wait until tomorrow morning. If it does not sync, I think my watch is going back for a firmware update.

This sounds a lot like a software bug to me.



TCXO said:


> Found my Casio G-Shock Tough Solar manual (modules 2608, 2638, 2688). Auto receive calibration at 2 am, 3 am, 4 am, 5 am daily. My understanding is that _auto receive is performed at each of these times even if the previous auto receive was successful_.


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## HRH Adam (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok to be a little more clear as I feel my last post wasn't: I purchased the Oceanus 700 AFTER DST normally ends, however this year DST lasted a bit longer, so I can't speak for how the watch handled DST sync before this, unfortunately. Before the time change last night, if I set DST to "Auto," the time would be incorrect, showing, say, 10pm when it was 11pm. Turning DST to "Off" and setting the home zone to LAX [where I am currently staying.] would yield a correct time reading after auto-syncing, but this was not technically correct, as we were still in DST. The watch, I assume, did not know this. After the 2am->1am shift, I now have the watch set to "Auto DST," time zone LAX, and the time is correct. I guess it picked up the new settings from the atomic clock in Boulder CO, but I'm not sure how this bodes for the next DST period, 6+/- months from now..... does anyone know how this sort of thing works?

Adam



fstshrk said:


> The Citizen Skyhawk will sync only once per night. It does retry at 3 and 4 if it can not sync at 2. It will also allow for the 4am sync to be moved to any time during the day.
> 
> I emailed Citizen of America tech support, they said to wait until tomorrow morning. If it does not sync, I think my watch is going back for a firmware update.
> 
> This sounds a lot like a software bug to me.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwv.html

All you wanted to know about the time signal.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

Update.

This morning, when I woke up, the DST change-over was handled by the watch. No idea why it did not happen on Sunday morning (6AM) even after a manually initiated sync.


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## TCXO (Jan 2, 2007)

Mine changed over correctly too last night.


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

Reviving the old thread...

Hmm...Well, I have an ATV53-2834, and noticed this morning, that it had not updated it's time to reflect the DST change. I checked the receive indicator, and it indicated a high signal during it's last reception, so that wasn't the issue. I then manually initiated a receive cycle, and the change was still not reflected...

I didn't have the watch before the time change last year, so this is the first time change I have had it. I wonder if this could be a software problem as someone else indicated. It would be nice to get both this and the 2010 calendar problem fixed all at once. I'm in the middle of the process of sending mine back for that problem, but may reply to the e-mail, and ask about the DST issue.

I believe I have the watch setup correctly, but may need to revisit that part of the manual. 3 Casio/Oceanus atomic watches right next to this one all updated correctly, although the change was at 12, instead of 2, but I'd take that over not changing at all.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

It will update correctly tomorrow.

This is exactly what happened with mine the last time. Since mine is at the COA service center getting the software update, I can not comment on what happened this time.

Just as a reference, both of my Casios updated correctly again this time.



geogecko said:


> Reviving the old thread...
> 
> Hmm...Well, I have an ATV53-2834, and noticed this morning, that it had not updated it's time to reflect the DST change. I checked the receive indicator, and it indicated a high signal during it's last reception, so that wasn't the issue. I then manually initiated a receive cycle, and the change was still not reflected...
> 
> ...


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

Interesting. It says in the manual also that it may not update on the exact date.

My question is, why? They get the DST flags in the message transmitted from the radio signal, why not use it the day it is supposed to happen? In this case, I have to wear another watch for a day, unless I want to manually set it to turn DST on/off, which I think is a bit strange.

I think I'll go ahead and send them an e-mail about it, and just hear what they have to say.

It's just about as bad as my Sony alarm clock that is atomic. It is great, except if the power goes out for more than about 5 minutes, then the alarm times are reset?! There is no battery backup, so there is no way to back up the alarm times, unless you do it externally. I asked Sony about it, and they said we will take that into consideration for the next version! I just laughed, and said it figures...


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## BobRiff (Dec 8, 2007)

Add me to the list of disappointed Skyhawk AT owners.

I e-mailed Citizen customer service too. 

Interesting that all of my $25 atomic clocks updated without a problem, but not my $400 watch!


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

It doesn't bother me that much. I am hoping that the new "software update" will fix this problem too.

If you don't know about the software update, more details are on my blog:

http://timereport.blogspot.com



BobRiff said:


> Add me to the list of disappointed Skyhawk AT owners.
> 
> I e-mailed Citizen customer service too.
> 
> Interesting that all of my $25 atomic clocks updated without a problem, but not my $400 watch!


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## BobRiff (Dec 8, 2007)

Thanks for providing the links.

Looks like I'll be on the phone to Citizen customer service tomorrow.

This looks like a good reason to get a Blue Mako to wear as a backup while my Skyhawk is down. 

My wife may or may not agree with my reasoning.


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

fstshrk said:


> It doesn't bother me that much. I am hoping that the new "software update" will fix this problem too.
> 
> If you don't know about the software update, more details are on my blog:
> 
> http://timereport.blogspot.com


Interesting. Well, it does kind of bother me, the whole day afterwards, the watch will be an hour off...but I guess another watch will get wrist time then...

On another note, there seems to be a difference in the whole indication if your watch numbered 7xxxxx is included in the recall. I got an e-mail back from Citizen USA with this information, talking about a dot instead of RFN:










I e-mailed them about the DST problem, to see if they knew about it, and if that was going to be something addressed in the 2010 update or not. We'll see.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

geogecko said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably not as they clearly indicate: "_This does not affect any other function..._"
Though it won't hurt asking.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

If you want, Costco.com has a Citizen Navihawk clone (predecessor to the Skyhawk series) ;-)

I think the item number is 
*241546*

I ordered one a few days ago.

Non Eco-drive, but hey, I have been looking for a nice Navihawk with actual luminous hands (which the US version did not have) forever now.



BobRiff said:


> Thanks for providing the links.
> 
> Looks like I'll be on the phone to Citizen customer service tomorrow.
> 
> ...


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

A "dot" is infinitely easier to put on then engraving an RFN around it.

I am guessing that the watches that were in production and received the update in the factory got the RFN and the watches that are fixed in later stages get the "dot".

Either way, I am happy that COA is making a proactive effort to get these fixed. They truly stand behind their product.



geogecko said:


> Interesting. Well, it does kind of bother me, the whole day afterwards, the watch will be an hour off...but I guess another watch will get wrist time then...
> 
> On another note, there seems to be a difference in the whole indication if your watch numbered 7xxxxx is included in the recall. I got an e-mail back from Citizen USA with this information, talking about a dot instead of RFN:
> 
> ...


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## BobRiff (Dec 8, 2007)

This is the reply I received to my e-mail to COA this morning:


thank you for your inquiry. The calendar update does not affect the radio update. What may have happened is a timing issue as to when your watch updated vs when the radio signal updated. This happened to several folks here last time change. If you normally receive a signal, let's see what happens tonight.

As for the calendar update, the factory has discovered a software anomaly in the calendar programming of the integrated circuit that affects some Skyhawk AT and other styles utilizing the U600 movement caliber produced in 2007 for those watches receiving either the U.S. or Japanese time signals. Those customers receiving the German time signals are not affected. This anomaly inhibits the calendar from displaying the correct date from February 28, 2010 forward. Rest assured no other production series, feature, function, aesthetic portion or other Skyhawk series timepiece is affected.

While not all pieces are affected, we cannot readily identify those that are. As such, we are asking to update all pieces with a U600 movement and a serial number that starts with "7" to be updated before February 28, 2010. To aid in identification of potentially affected pieces, we have attached an information sheet for you. If your serial number begins with 7, and is not preceded by a small dot as outlined on the information sheet, we recommend you send the watch before February 28, 2010 for a free software update of the integrated chip. 

If you are a U.S. customer, please call us at 800-321-1023 ext. 4234 so that we may arrange a prepaid shipping label with UPS for you. Once this is arranged, you would simply need to pack the watch securely in a sturdy box (do not send the original packaging or materials), tape the label to the box and submit the package to one of the many UPS drop off locations throughout the United States. If you are located outside the U.S, please contact your nearest service center for direction.

We appreciate your understanding and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Sincerely

Customer Service 
Citizen Watch Company of America 
1000 W 190th Street 
Torrance, CA 90502 
[email protected] 
800-321-1023, ext. 4234


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

Hmm...just got an e-mail back from COA. They told me that the DST updating has to do with timing. That if the watch updates before the time signal includes the time change digit, it won't update until the next day.

This can't be the problem obviously, since I performed a manual receive around 8AM this morning, and it STILL did not update. If the signal is not there AFTER the time change, then there would be BIG problems...

Anyway, I e-mailed back my concerns, and also mentioned that the receive settings on the U600 module are 2AM and 3AM, with the 4AM time being adjustable. If the official time change is at 2AM, then by all means, the DST digit should be set by then. I'll have to look at my reference guide from the NIST, but I'm pretty sure that DST bit is set way in advance of the actual time change, to allow the clocks to prepare to change time.


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## first230sl (Mar 10, 2008)

Not that it will help - but just to add my voice, I, too, have found the exact same problem. I have the Skyhawk AT and it did not update to DST=on despite several forced (and successful) receipts of the radio time signal. Latest synch was this morning at 8:00am. I will try again shortly.

Best regards - Murray



geogecko said:


> Anyway, I e-mailed back my concerns, and also mentioned that the receive settings on the U600 module are 2AM and 3AM, with the 4AM time being adjustable. If the official time change is at 2AM, then by all means, the DST digit should be set by then. I'll have to look at my reference guide from the NIST, but I'm pretty sure that DST bit is set way in advance of the actual time change, to allow the clocks to prepare to change time.


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## first230sl (Mar 10, 2008)

OK - I just did another forced synch (0400 UTC) and all is now well in DST land. The watch shows SMT=on and the time is correct.

Assuming the signal from Ft. Collins has the DST flag set correctly starting at 2:00am Sunday morning (and I cannot imagine why this would not be the case), it seems very odd that the watch does not immediately register the change. When does it decide to fdo so?

Do we know for sure that the DST flag is present starting at 2:00am? Does anyone have another device which registers it right away while the Skyhawk AT does not? It would be interesting to get to the bottom of this.

Until the fall!

Murray



first230sl said:


> Not that it will help - but just to add my voice, I, too, have found the exact same problem. I have the Skyhawk AT and it did not update to DST=on despite several forced (and successful) receipts of the radio time signal. Latest synch was this morning at 8:00am. I will try again shortly.
> 
> Best regards - Murray


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## BobRiff (Dec 8, 2007)

I have three inexpensive "atomic" clocks from two different manufacturers.

All of them successfully updated at 2 a.m. on Sunday morning. 
My Skyhawk did not.

Fortunately, it's easy to set it manually.


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## bompi (Jul 21, 2007)

Well, there's some good news after all. It's just that I have to avoid wearing my Attesa next time I 'm going to the US ...


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

bompi said:


> Well, there's some good news after all. It's just that I have to avoid wearing my Attesa next time I 'm going to the US ...


On the DST topic, the Citizens aren't the only ones with this "not changing over" problem. I've got a Junghans Mega 1000 digital whose instruction book says that te change from CET to CEST (I assume that means the same as DST) is automatic. But it hasn't changed yet despite an indication that it received a signal last night.

Earlier posts on this thread all imply that the signal from Fort Collins does reflect the change to DST. I looked on the WWVB site and could find no mention of DST, even in the FAQ section, so I'm none the wiser.

I also have a Seiko Radio Wave Control World Time Solar (a bit of a mouthful!) and its instructions say that you have to change the time zone if you want the watch to show the correct time during DST.That strikes meas a rather agricultural solution and very un-Seiko like. However, that's apparently the way it is. It's easy enough to do and it only tells me I'm in New York instead of Chicago if I ask it (I'm not in either, but no matter!).

So after all that, my question is whether WWVB really does give out DST after the change or does it actually broadcast GMT or UTC and allow the watch/clock settings to decide what the proper reading should be?

I've also got a Citizen ATV being updated by its father in Torrance and I shall be interested to see how it reacts to DST when I get it back.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

artec said:


> ...I also have a Seiko Radio Wave Control World Time Solar (a bit of a mouthful!) and its instructions say that you have to change the time zone if you want the watch to show the correct time during DST.That strikes meas a rather agricultural solution and very un-Seiko like...


"_Some areas or countries in a time zone may not have adapted summer time. Therefore the watch is designed so that summer time can be manually selected._"
(The above quote is from the Seiko manual.)
The more I think about it the more sense it makes. Seiko's solution offers flexibility and takes less than 5 seconds to execute. So I disagree with your opinion: I think, it's smart and very much Seiko-like!
No one could offer a simpler solution that works everywhere where reception is available. It's the most logical solution as well: you only interfere with your watch if your location adapted to the changes of daylight savings. On the other hand, if your location does not recognise daylight savings, you won't need to do anything with your watch. All the other manufacturers make it the other way around: you have to adjust your watch when your location does not adjust to daylight savings and you have to remain passive when your location actually adjust to daylight savings.​


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## first230sl (Mar 10, 2008)

BobRiff said:


> ... Fortunately, it's easy to set it manually.


Well, it is and it isn't.

It is easy to set my home city to DST=on, but that leaves all the other cities in the world unchanged and therefore incorrect (unless I go change them all). This makes it hard when I try to figure out what time it is elsewhere or when I travel.

Also - yes, DST IS encoded in the time signal. See the following URL for a description of the signal format. Note that two bits near 57 seconds encode the DST information. The URL is http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwvbtimecode.htm

Have fun!


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## first230sl (Mar 10, 2008)

Another great reference is one that is put out by the NIST. It is the practice guide for WWVB radio controlled clocks. There is some info there on handling DST and an indication that it is often misinterpreted.

In there you will see that there are two bits for DST that can represent 4 values. DST on, DST off, and two transition values - one for the day when DST is coming on, and one for the day when DST is coming off.

This leads me to speculate (without any basis in knowledge I admit) whether the Skyhawk At is possibly ignoring the transition bits. Who knows. I am not 100% sure as to when the transition code comes on - whether it is at UTC 0200, or some other time.

The URL for the PDF document is at http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1976.pdf

Be warned it is a large document and downloaded slowly for me - but a fun read for watch geeks. Gives you something to talk about at your next party.

Murray


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## BobRiff (Dec 8, 2007)

first230sl said:


> Well, it is and it isn't.
> 
> It is easy to set my home city to DST=on, but that leaves all the other cities in the world unchanged and therefore incorrect (unless I go change them all). This makes it hard when I try to figure out what time it is elsewhere or when I travel.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I forgot that some people might actually leave there "home" timezones more than once or twice a year. 

I stick pretty close to home.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

ppaulusz said:


> "_Some areas or countries in a time zone may not have adapted summer time. Therefore the watch is designed so that summer time can be manually selected._"
> (The above quote is from the Seiko manual.)
> The more I think about it the more sense it makes. Seiko's solution offers flexibility and takes less than 5 seconds to execute. So I disagree with your opinion: I think, it's smart and very much Seiko-like!
> No one could offer a simpler solution that works everywhere where reception is available. It's the most logical solution as well: you only interfere with your watch if your location adapted to the changes of daylight savings. On the other hand, if your location does not recognise daylight savings, you won't need to do anything with your watch. All the other manufacturers make it the other way around: you have to adjust your watch when your location does not adjust to daylight savings and you have to remain passive when your location actually adjust to daylight savings.​


I take your point, ppaulusz, though I must admit these old eyes had a hard time reading the tiny print! I agree that it's an easy and flexible solution but it still offends me that Seiko makes you deliberately set your watch to the wrong time zone.

I'm afraid I still think it's un-Seiko like, but we can agree to differ on that. I'm not sure what the perfect answer is....... or even if there is one....... maybe permanent DST?

Anyway, I still don't know why my Junghans isn't responding to WWBV. Anyone have any ideas?


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

artec said:


> ...I'm not sure what the perfect answer is....... or even if there is one...


I'd say there is no perfect answer or solution for the problem that _we_ have created by introducing daylight savings time.;-)


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

There's been some talk in the US (I don't know how serious) of abolishing it here. Wouldn't hurt my feelings.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

Bruce Reding said:


> There's been some talk in the US (I don't know how serious) of abolishing it here. Wouldn't hurt my feelings.


Same here, Bruce, if they were about to abolish it in Europe.;-)


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

first230sl said:


> Another great reference is one that is put out by the NIST. It is the practice guide for WWVB radio controlled clocks. There is some info there on handling DST and an indication that it is often misinterpreted.
> 
> In there you will see that there are two bits for DST that can represent 4 values. DST on, DST off, and two transition values - one for the day when DST is coming on, and one for the day when DST is coming off.
> 
> ...


You can also have them send you a printed copy of that manual for free, and it has a lot of useful information in it, if you don't want to look at it online.

I completely agree with you. I just think Citizen is not decoding the signal correctly. I have already exchanged around 5-7 e-mails with them, debating on the fact that the watch has a bug. In fact, the DST signal isn't only there at 2AM, but before, as all 3 of my Casio's converted the time at 12AM, IIRC, which of course, is 2 hours before the actual change, but I'll take that, over having to wait 12 hours later, like I did with the Attesa.

I manually synced several times on Sunday, all succeeded, and it was the time around 8PM that it actually decided to change the time.

I'm going to call COA sometime this week, probably Friday, to get my UPS shipping label, but also discuss the flaky DST issue. Granted, this only happens twice a year, but part of the reason my watches are mostly radio controlled, is that I hate setting clocks, even my alarm clock is that way.

They probably just do not want to admit that there is a slight annoyance about the watch, as word of mouth would spread, and they'd have to replace all those movements, or do firmware upgrades. One could only hope that they fix this issue with the update, even though they are saying it doesn't fix anything else.

Would be interesting to know if anyone that has an 8xxxxx S/N, if it updates overnight, or the next day...

I guess I could be a jerk about it, and say I think it's defective, and want it replaced, but that probably wouldn't get me anywhere, except another watch that does the same thing, which will take another 6 months to determine.


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

:think: Well, I just recently did some research, and found this text from Special Publication 432 (http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/1383.pdf - Page 21):



> Daylight saving time (DST) and standard time (ST) information is transmitted at seconds 57 and 58. When ST is in effect, bits 57 and 58 are set to 0. When DST is in effect, bits 57 and 58 are set to 1. On the day of a change from ST to DST bit 57 changes from 0 to 1 at 0000 UTC, and bit 58 changes from 0 to 1 exactly 24 hours later. On the day of a change from DST back to ST bit 57 changes from 1 to 0 at 0000 UTC, and bit 58 changes from 1 to 0 exactly 24 hours later.


Currently in CST, with DST active, at 0000 UTC, that would be 1900 CST (or 7PM). That means, the signal is not there until then, to change to DST...

2 observations:

1. They have two bits to indicate the change, so why not do it the day before, giving a warning to all clocks, that the change is coming up, so it wouldn't matter what time zone you were in.
2. How did other clocks anticipate this change (even after the recent DST date changes)?

This does seem to be when mine decided to finally update, at around 20:00 CST, which just happened to be the next time I manually synced...

Could it be that, perhaps the text here is wrong, and that they meant to say that the first bit changes the day BEFORE, instead of the day OF?

I think I'll send an e-mail to the NIST, to get better clarification on this.


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

geogecko said:


> Could it be that, perhaps the text here is wrong, and that they meant to say that the first bit changes the day BEFORE, instead of the day OF?


I think the text is correct, but there is probably a software subtlty here.

Perhaps the watches/clocks that change "the day of" are programmed to update with only 1 of the 2 bits set to DST while our Citizens are programmed to update only when BOTH bits are set to DST.

This would explain the observed behavior ... :-s


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

gaijin said:


> I think the text is correct, but there is probably a software subtlty here.
> 
> Perhaps the watches/clocks that change "the day of" are programmed to update with only 1 of the 2 bits set to DST while our Citizens are programmed to update only when BOTH bits are set to DST.
> 
> This would explain the observed behavior ... :-s


Interesting observation. I sent an e-mail to engineering support at NIST, so hopefully I'll get clarification on that statement. I'll post back when I hear, and reply to COA's latest e-mail, thanking me for telling them that it did update the day afterwards...


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

Okay, after a little more research, I think I screwed up.

At 00:00 hours (UTC), it would be 19:00 hours (CST with DST) the day BEFORE. So, the bit pattern is correct (as it probably should have been assumed to be), and it's just Citizen is choosing not to decode it correctly.

So, another e-mail to Citizen, to see if they will admit that it seems to be a bug.


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## hap (Jan 10, 2008)

I read all this stuff....only part of which I understand. but the whole thing is INSANE. I have a CAsio Dual Band and when it did not change as I thought it should...I just did it manually. I have a Skyhawk AT coming..thus the attraction to this thread. It's mind boggling. These durned things are too complicated...and I thought mechanicals were a pain. Isn't all this supposed to make life easier?
Hap


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

hap said:


> I read all this stuff....only part of which I understand. but the whole thing is INSANE. I have a CAsio Dual Band and when it did not change as I thought it should...I just did it manually. I have a Skyhawk AT coming..thus the attraction to this thread. It's mind boggling. These durned things are too complicated...and I thought mechanicals were a pain. Isn't all this supposed to make life easier?
> Hap


Last switch I noticed my Casio took two days to make the change... It didn't get it the first night.

I haven't checked this change yet... the VHP Perpetual hasn't left my wrist for weeks... (It did require a manual update to the early DST... but it got 29 days of Feb right!) (well,... I did wear a nice solid rose gold Tissot winder for a few days... 30's vintage. It's so purdy! :-d)

But my atomic clocks (the one I did the thread on) seemed to work it through (though they too might have taken two days... I wasn't here to check.)


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

I received my Skyhawk AT back from service yesterday, there is a little dot (indentation) to indicate that the watch has received the U600 update. The turnaround time was 7 days.

Very pleased with COA.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

artec said:


> On the DST topic, the Citizens aren't the only ones with this "not changing over" problem. I've got a Junghans Mega 1000 digital whose instruction book says that te change from CET to CEST (I assume that means the same as DST) is automatic. But it hasn't changed yet despite an indication that it received a signal last night.
> 
> Earlier posts on this thread all imply that the signal from Fort Collins does reflect the change to DST. I looked on the WWVB site and could find no mention of DST, even in the FAQ section, so I'm none the wiser.
> 
> ...


I just got an e-mail from Citizen in Torrance to say that my ATV was on its way home. Very quick service and very attentive to tell me it's done. I'm impressed. I wonder if they could adjust a Chronomaster or if they would send it back to Japan........ I think I'll ask them. I don't know that my Chronomaster needs adjusting yet, but it would certainly be ice if they could be adjusted on this side of the water. I sent one back to Japan for adjustment and it took nearly three months overall.


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## ckx (Oct 22, 2008)

Could anyone give an update on this issue this weekend when DST ends in the US?


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

Sure. I just woke up my other watches, anticipating that I will have to wear one of them while the Citizen stays behind a day. Who knows, maybe the software update took care of it though, we'll see tomorrow.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

geogecko said:


> Sure. I just woke up my other watches, anticipating that I will have to wear one of them while the Citizen stays behind a day. Who knows, maybe the software update took care of it though, we'll see tomorrow.


Ditto. Citizen will probably sync up properly on Sunday night.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Not synching until Sunday night/Monday morning may have to do with when the watch listens for momma to tell it what the time/date is.... 

My atomic clocks only listen around 1AM... so they never hear the time change. I have one that listens until it gets a signal, so it too may miss the 2AM switch. I have one I have no idea when it listens... we'll get some clues tonight.


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

Yeah, it is something with the way Citizen does things. If they properly handled the NIST format, and recommendations, then it would take place on time. If you look at the spec, the time change notification actually happens the day before, so there is no excuse to miss it, even if it updates at midnight or one AM...


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

geogecko said:


> Sure. I just woke up my other watches, anticipating that I will have to wear one of them while the Citizen stays behind a day. Who knows, maybe the software update took care of it though, we'll see tomorrow.


Well, good news!

Both my Citizen Skyhawk AT's sync'd up successfully last night to the new (one hour back) time!

Both watches had the software upgrade performed at the COA Torrance, CA facility earlier this year.

Kudos to Citizen for getting this right!

.:-!


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

Hmm. That was a nice surprise this morning. Mine had the correct adjusted time this morning!


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

4 atomic clocks... 2 desk clocks synced at 1AM and have the wrong time.
At 1AM the Casio couldn't hear Momma so I put him in a high window. This watch tries every hour from 1Am to 4AM... it synched after the time change and got the time right.
I couldn't tell when the Junghens synched but it too did not catch the change.


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

My desk clock could not sync last night. Had to manually adjust it.
The Casio is OK I think.



Eeeb said:


> 4 atomic clocks... 2 desk clocks synced at 1AM and have the wrong time.
> At 1AM the Casio couldn't hear Momma so I put him in a high window. This watch tries every hour from 1Am to 4AM... it synched after the time change and got the time right.
> I couldn't tell when the Junghens synched but it too did not catch the change.


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## s-one (Dec 21, 2007)

gaijin said:


> Well, good news!
> 
> Both my Citizen Skyhawk AT's sync'd up successfully last night to the new (one hour back) time!
> 
> ...


Same here.

My Limited Edition Attesa synced last night accordingly. But like gaijin also had my software updated prior after not having it synced correctly last spring.


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## drchan45 (Nov 18, 2006)

Hi

My Skyhawk AT also was a day late after DST changeover the last time around. It has since been in for the calendar software update, and changed over at 2am on Sunday morning without any problem at all. One might assume that the software update for the calendar fixed something else as well...

Good luck!


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## geogecko (Apr 24, 2007)

:-! Yep, I think that is what most people were hoping for, but Citizen would not admit that it fixed any other problem...

I'm glad Citizen addressed it, because it was a major annoyance to wear one of my other watches...although, they [the watches] probably enjoyed getting worn 2 days out of the year!


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