# Union Glashütte Viro



## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm in danger of buying this watch, but if you put me off you might be doing me a favour. ;-)










I like the measured Germanic simplicity. I've never seen one in the metal, but I like what appears to a high standard of fit and finish. And it appears to have something that I covet, but which all my watches lack - finely-engineered indices. On the debit side, I'd rather it measured 38mm than 41mm.

I'm aware that German watch enthusiasts aren't enamoured of the 'new' Union Glashütte. It's not 'properly' German because it uses (Glashütte-made) ETA movements. The dead hand of corporate Swatch has reduced it to a label. You might as well buy a Longines, etc, etc.

But none of these things bother me too much, and some might even be a bonus. Yes, I'm wary of Swatch's brand manipulations, but I'm also aware that Swatch keeps things alive that might otherwise die. The ETA movement makes the brand affordable while preserving the perceived exclusivity of Glashütte Original. It also means that any decent British watchmaker can service it, which is a real plus. 'New' Union Glashütte is accessible to me in ways that 'old' Union Glashütte wasn't. I even prefer the new logo to the old...









But here's the dangerous bit. In a couple of weeks we'll be heading off to our apartment in Kraków. I was on the Union Glashütte website, checking where the watches could be bought. Hardly anywhere, it seemed, outside Germany and Austria, but there was one dealer in Poland. Where? Oh bugger - Kraków. Where in Kraków? Oh bloody hell - five minutes from our apartment. If they're having a sale, I've had it...

And with price in mind, here's something else I need help with. I've seen that they're available at a considerable discount via chrono24.com. I've never used chrono24 before, but I assume you simply contact the dealers and take it from there. And would I be correct in thinking that these are likely to be grey dealers?

These aren't really expensive watches, but it's more than I usually spend. Before very long I'll be living on a pension and big purchases will be rare. If I buy this watch it will be with the intention of keeping it for life. I can't really see any alternatives at the price, with the possible exception of the Nomos Orion, but that's probably _too_ low-key for me (and I'm aware of the other thread that mentions these two watches).

So there we are. Is it nicely finished? Are the indices as nifty as I want them to be? Is chrono24.com the way to go? Naturally I will try it for myself if the Kraków dealer has one in stock, but I may be tempted to buy blind if they don't.

All comments welcome.


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## a-Tom-ic (Mar 3, 2009)

hi tribe,

i also like several from u g's lineup, and have searched the forum for discussion of the brand only to find little. swatch has grouped ug with radio and longines as a 'high range'. there are model's from swatch's 'middle range' brand mido that have a similar design as your candidate; e.g. the baroncelli gent ii, a dressy 38mm model.

from ug, what about the date-less noramis in 40 or 34mm? i like the '4' on this model a lot.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes, I've looked at those. Mido means nothing to me, unfortunately. No associations, no meaning - personal or otherwise. I don't think I've ever seen one in Europe (although they may well exist), so for me they might as well be a new brand with a new name. I don't wish that to sound demeaning, but it's hard to work up any enthusiasm for something for which you have no context.

And the date at 4 o'clock is wrong. ;-)

I have looked at that Noramis. I've looked at it a lot, and I like it. Quite a bit more money, though - and if I'm being ruthlessly practical, rather than just taking an aesthetic point of view, a date is handy. And I think I _just_ prefer the elegant austerity of the Viro.


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## -thorsten- (Jun 19, 2006)

Check out Wempe. They may have what you're looking for:

http://www.chronometerwerke-glashuette.de/bereich11-mb2-sb2.htm


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## european.aristocrat (Jun 22, 2009)

first off, krakow may be my favorite city in europe. i lived on the border of poland in slovakia near zakopane. i am quite jealous that you will be living there. enjoy.

as for the watch, GET IT! this watch is on my hit list. i just cant decide which color. their is a US dealer on this site, azfinetime.com that sells them. they are really well priced for what you are getting. yes, it is swatch, but it is put together in glashuette, hence the name. it is such a clean piece.

do it, do it, do it!



tribe125 said:


> I'm in danger of buying this watch, but if you put me off you might be doing me a favour. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Barnaby (Jul 21, 2008)

You'd seriously get this over something as nice as the Nomos Orion? Wow...I would make completely the opposite decision, but there you go!


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## v76 (Dec 29, 2009)

Barnaby said:


> You'd seriously get this over something as nice as the Nomos Orion? Wow...I would make completely the opposite decision, but there you go!


I love the styling of all the Nomos watches, even the Club Hell (looks pretty sporty). The big plus is that the movements are in-house. Absolutely great value for what you pay!


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

I, too, would consider Nomos and Stowa close contenders for this style of watch.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

-thorsten- said:


> Check out Wempe. They may have what you're looking for:
> 
> http://www.chronometerwerke-glashuette.de/bereich11-mb2-sb2.htm


I like the Zeitmeister, but at the moment the Wempe website is only listing the power-reserve automatics, Which retail at something like €1,875, and that's too much.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

european.aristocrat said:


> i lived on the border of poland in slovakia near zakopane.


In that case I have looked over the border at your bit of Slovakia.



european.aristocrat said:


> as for the watch, GET IT!


Too many unequivocal recommendations like that and I probably will. ;-)


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Barnaby said:


> You'd seriously get this over something as nice as the Nomos Orion? Wow...I would make completely the opposite decision, but there you go!


I'm not completely convinced by Nomos. I've seen several photos that show misaligned indices, and one that shows a misaligned dial. It may be that these faults are not common, or that they belong to the past, but it's a bit off-putting. And a date would be handy.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

v76 said:


> The big plus is that the movements are in-house. Absolutely great value for what you pay!


An in-house movement isn't a big plus for me. Nice to have, but not essential. They are good value though - or they wouldn't be on my radar. ;-)


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Crusader said:


> I, too, would consider Nomos and Stowa close contenders for this style of watch.


Close, but no cigar. ;-)

I have a lot of time for Stowa. I've had, but ultimately sold, an Antea and an Airman.

I've looked at the Marine, but I'm probably one of the few people on the planet that doesn't like the minute hand, and on this occasion I'm looking for 'classic' but not 'historical'.


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## Panama (Jan 22, 2008)

Don't want to confuse you, but I am very happy with my Nomos Orion, a great simple and effective watch at a very good price.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Panama said:


> Don't want to confuse you, but I am very happy with my Nomos Orion, a great simple and effective watch at a very good price.


Don't think I don't like them. ;-)


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## Ax (Feb 3, 2007)

seeing your signature.. another black dial? ;-)


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Well, things are moving on. ;-)

Thorsten has prompted me to look further into Wempe. I've liked the Zeitmeister since it was launched, and I like what the company are doing. I read an article years ago about the renovated observatory and all that, and have had a soft spot for them ever since.

I rang Wempe, London, and a very lovely lady with a slight German accent tells me that the 38mm automatic _is _still in the catalogue, despite not being mentioned on the website. She would also be pleased to see me at their New Bond Street premises, where a colleague would be delighted to sell me one for £1,155.










Blimey, it's like the Palace of Versailles in there, compared to the sort of places I usually get into. Have I got the clothes?

So, I've moved from maybe spending £650 - £900, to spending £1,155. It's easily done. 

Actually, going from a list-price £900 for the Viro to a list-price £1,155 for the Wempe doesn't look bad at all - employing the kind of logic that us watch-nuts are inclined to employ. It's the right size, it has the right classic credentials, it's from an interesting company. And it has an engraving of the observatory on the back... Luvverly.

Doesn't come in black, though, Ax. ;-)

Now I need to reflect a bit. Please help with more comments if you have any. You've been very helpful so far.

So I might go down to New Bond Street. That's not a trip I could easily make without my wife's knowledge. I can't say I'm popping down to Halfords for some new windscreen wipers dressed in my smartest jacket. Hang on though, I think she has one of those four-hour pre-holiday hairdressing appointments this Saturday... :think:

And what watch to wear? Maybe my 'Crusader' MkXI - that'll fox 'em.


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## Johnny5 (May 2, 2008)

Have you looked the the watches Muhle has available? The Germanika model is very simular.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Johnny5 said:


> Have you looked the the watches Muhle has available? The Germanika model is very simular.


I have, but I'm not keen on Muhle for some reason. Actually, I know the reason, but it's one of those things that is probably an unfair bias. Can't shift it though...


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## jporos (Sep 16, 2007)

*Wempe seems a good choice...*

I would think that the finishing is good and there is appeal to a watch that meets DIN timing standards. I know that you were not interested in Nomos, but what about a black dial?










Good luck with your search!


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

*Re: Wempe seems a good choice...*



jporos said:


> Good luck with your search!


Thanks!

I am still looking at Nomos. In fact I have multiple tabs open on my browser looking back and forth at everything. ;-)

I need to see these watches on my wrist. I think Wempe stock Nomos, so I'll be able to make direct comparisons. That's if the fever doesn't subside by Saturday...


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## Johnny5 (May 2, 2008)

http://www.righttime.com/rt/muhle_glashutte/m1-38-25lb.htm

Maybe its time to give Muhle a second chance ;-)


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Nope. ;-)

Too big, too modern, has lumed hands and the word 'Germanika' sounds a bit synthetic.

Appreciate the suggestion though. 

At the moment I'm weighing up the pros and cons of going down to the Wempe shop, because I know the seductive air will have me leaving with _something_...


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

tribe125 said:


> Blimey, it's like the Palace of Versailles in there, compared to the sort of places I usually get into. Have I got the clothes?
> 
> So, I've moved from maybe spending £650 - £900, to spending £1,155. It's easily done.
> 
> ...


Wempe watches are made by Nomos. ;-)

And I would be very much honored if you were to expose the Mk. MCXLVIII to that refined envronment. :-d


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Crusader said:


> Wempe watches are made by Nomos. ;-)


Ah yes, I did know that actually, but was thinking I would be buying one (if I was buying one) unseen - probably from Chronomaster in the UK, whose prices look pretty good. Then it dawned on me that because of the association, Wempe was almost certain to sell them too, which they do, so I could check them out myself.



Crusader said:


> And I would be very much honored if you were to expose the Mk. MCXLVIII to that refined envronment. :-d


It's almost worth going just for that, isn't it? 

_"Yes, it's from a little-known but highly respected German maker. A friend, actually. Maybe you've heard of him...?"_

Some part of me must think I'm going down to Wempe - I was polishing my shoes earlier. :-d


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## Top Cat (Oct 5, 2009)

I would choose a Nomos or Wempe over a Union. I do not like the way Swatch bought Union and stopped them making movements. How about a Sinn Klassik?


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## Rippin (Jul 24, 2008)

I would still consider the Union if I were you.
I like the Belisar Big Date, but especially the Noramis 40mm.
It was this picture that I found on the web that sold me on it:










Although the white balance in this image is way off, it shows the beautifully applied numerals and indices. I *LOVE* applied numerals. The thickness of the watch also makes it a bit sporty. Only thing I don't like about it: the alligator-*look* strap. I'd rather it be genuine. If it were my only watch I'd want a date on it as well, though.


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Top Cat said:


> I would choose a Nomos or Wempe over a Union. I do not like the way Swatch bought Union and stopped them making movements. How about a Sinn Klassik?


My sentiment exactly.

The Sinn 1746 is a really nice piece indeed (Flash does not let me hotlink the picture):

http://www.sinn.de/Modell/1746_Klassik.htm


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

I think I've decided that it's Wempe or Nomos too. I'm not terribly brand-conscious, but there does seem to be something 'uncertain' about the Union brand at the moment, and that can be a little off-putting when you're spending a thousand pounds. I'm leaning to Wempe but am interested to see a Nomos on my wrist.

I hadn't considered the Sinn Klassik, so thanks for that recommendation. I've had a look and it doesn't fit the bill for me (too big, not keen on Roman numerals, and the hands look a little lost in the dial).

I realised I had actually seen one of these in a jewellers in Krakow, and while it intrigued me there was nothing telling me to look any closer.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)




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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

:-d :-d :-d

So let the cat out of the bag, Alan ;-)


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## G Shock (May 28, 2007)

So is it good choice the Union Glashütte Viro according for what you said?
Because it's in my wish list when i will make a trip in Germany.:think:


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## Ax (Feb 3, 2007)

Congrats to the Wempe!(?)

(looks like to much stuff for a Nomos-box)


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## european.aristocrat (Jun 22, 2009)

G Shock said:


> So is it good choice the Union Glashütte Viro according for what you said?
> Because it's in my wish list when i will make a trip in Germany.:think:


the union is high quality. they will be comparable to Longines. i think that they are probably as good as omega.


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Well, what a delightful experience that was. I sat drinking coffee from a Wempe cup as a charming man talked me through the Wempe Zeitmeister and the Nomos Orion. There was one other customer - a stylish young man with expensive hair who was considering the merits of various Pateks - mostly by looking at himself in a full-length mirror... He seemed to be particularly impressed when his salesman said,_ 'The advantage of this model, sir, is that you will rarely see another. Naturally that is not unrelated to the price, but it is an exceptionally fine piece.'_

Meanwhile my salesman was examining my 'Crusader Mk1148'._ 'That's a nice pilot's watch'_, he had said -_ 'Looks vintage. Do you mind if I take a closer look ?'_ He liked it, even after I told him the price...

But back to the Wempe and the Nomos. There was absolutely nothing wrong with either of them. The profile of the Nomos was in its favour, but the Wempe somehow exuded a bit more quality (or that awkward word 'class'). I couldn't start to quantify that (although the Nomos case-back was slightly disappointing), but the Wempe felt like a thousand pound watch and the Nomos didn't. More importantly perhaps, I'm a big bloke who rarely gets dressed up, and the Nomos looked a bit delicate on my wrist. The Wempe looked just right, even before I put it on. I reined myself in while I negotiated a small discount, but I knew I would be walking out with it.

Interestingly, the salesman gave me a brief summary of Wempe's history, including a passing reference to the manufacture of the watches at Glashütte. I said I believed they were made by Nomos, but he said they weren't. He happily acknowledged the relationship between the two companies, but said that Wempe watches were made by watchmakers solely employed by Wempe. _'Separate companies, separate staff'_, he said. He had visited Glashütte and was generally an open and straightforward bloke, so I was inclined to believe him. The rather nice Wempe book that I came away with also says that the watches are made in the Wempe observatory building (rather than in the old Glashütte station that houses Nomos).

Before leaving I had a good look at some of the more exotic watches in the shop, particularly a Patek Calatrava. Gratifyingly, I thought, _'Hey, I like the Wempe better!'_. This is effectively a retirement watch for me. I don't expect to be spending more than this again, and I don't think I could have found anything that suited me better.

Happy man. 

I started off by saying that you might be doing me a favour if you put me off the Union. Well, you did and I'm grateful. Thank you!

A couple of 'day one and after the light had gone' pictures.


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## european.aristocrat (Jun 22, 2009)

tribe125 said:


> Well, what a delightful experience that was. I sat drinking coffee from a Wempe cup as a charming man talked me through the Wempe Zeitmeister and the Nomos Orion. There was one other customer - a stylish young man with expensive hair who was considering the merits of various Pateks - mostly by looking at himself in a full-length mirror... He seemed to be particularly impressed when his salesman said,_ 'The advantage of this model, sir, is that you will rarely see another. Naturally that is not unrelated to the price, but it is an exceptionally fine piece.'_
> 
> Meanwhile my salesman was examining my 'Crusader Mk1148'._ 'That's a nice pilot's watch'_, he had said -_ 'Looks vintage. Do you mind if I take a closer look ?'_ He liked it, even after I told him the price...
> 
> ...


it's gorgeous! i may add wempe to my hit list! enjoy!|>:-!


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Sounds like a very pleasurable experience, and apparently you met an expert salesman who wouldn't be uncouth about the watch a customer walks in with (as opposed to: "You all that a watch? No wonder you came in here ... you are in dire need of help, good sir!") ;-)


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Crusader said:


> Sounds like a very pleasurable experience, and apparently you met an expert salesman who wouldn't be uncouth about the watch a customer walks in with.


That did cross my mind ;-), but his interest seemed genuine, and he knew a fair bit about pilots' watches from that era.


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## Ax (Feb 3, 2007)

That is a beautiful watch and a great choise!
I have been contemplating the same model a couple of times actually. Last time actually in Wempe Frankfurt this fall trying quite a few watches and ending up deciding between the same two you did.
For me the Orion (_Schwarzenberg_) was the right answer.

Enjoy the Zeitmeister! :-!


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## Rippin (Jul 24, 2008)

tribe125 said:


>


That looks like a fine watch right there. I think the only Nomos that could compare in "feel" would be the new Zurich Date. Did they have that model there? And I think the Zurich's MSRP is a bit higher than what you wanted to spend at the moment.


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## a-Tom-ic (Mar 3, 2009)

tribe,

congratulations- for the watch and retirement. i am really glad you decided to stretch your budget a bit. i agree with the previous post that in the nomos line, only the zurich cops the same feel as this one, but for a price. your wempe is gorgeous, with sweet hands and even a beautiful strap. great choice. |>

:thanks


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## G Shock (May 28, 2007)

european.aristocrat said:


> the union is high quality. they will be comparable to Longines. i think that they are probably as good as omega.


If it is so i will keep it in my wish list.Now i feel good about Viro.:-!


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Rippin said:


> I think the only Nomos that could compare in "feel" would be the new Zurich Date. Did they have that model there?


If they did, I didn't see it. Apart from some glazed-in alcoves, their watches aren't on display. You sit at a fancy desk and the salesman asks you what sort of watch you are interested in. He then produces watches from drawers on his side of the desk, and lays them before you. The experience is more akin to visiting a bespoke tailor than a jeweller's shop (not that I've been to a bespoke tailor).

I did, after seeing the Wempe and Nomos, ask him if they had any other watches in a broadly similar style at a broadly similar price, and after thinking for a moment he said no.

I have seen pictures of the Zurich and it wouldn't have been for me. I seem to like Bauhaus in principle, but not in practice. I went off my Stowa Antea for that reason, I think.

I wouldn't want to live in a Bauhaus house either... ;-)


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

a-Tom-ic said:


> congratulations- for the watch and retirement.


Well, I can retire next month, but my wife would be too jealous. ;-)

She is two years younger, and I get the feeling she wouldn't really appreciate me sitting around while she brought home the bulk of our income. I'll probably stay on a year or so as a compromise...

In a way, she prompted this purchase. We were considering buying some mundane but fairly expensive thing, and she said perhaps we should buy things like that while we still had a fair amount of disposable income.

_'Absolutely right'_, I thought... _'I'm gonna buy a watch!'_ :-d


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Some better pictures:


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

tribe125 said:


> In a way, she prompted this purchase. We were considering buying some mundane but fairly expensive thing, and she said perhaps we should buy things like that while we still had a fair amount of disposable income.
> 
> _'Absolutely right'_, I thought... _'I'm gonna buy a watch!'_ :-d


This is going to fly? Count yourself lucky! :-d


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## tribe125 (Mar 7, 2006)

Crusader said:


> This is going to fly? Count yourself lucky! :-d


Separate current accounts, separate savings accounts... we only have a rough idea of what money the other has - or doesn't have. ;-)


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

tribe125 said:


> Separate current accounts, separate savings accounts... we only have a rough idea of what money the other has - or doesn't have. ;-)


Count yourself lucky, then.  b-) :-!


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## jporos (Sep 16, 2007)

*Congrats*

on that beautiful Wempe Zeitmeister! Sounds like you made the right decision for you.


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## Top Cat (Oct 5, 2009)

Great watch, thank you for sharing.


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## european.aristocrat (Jun 22, 2009)

that looks great on you. perfect!








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