# Hamilton is not an American watch



## ItsMuskyTime (Mar 20, 2011)

Does it bother anyone that Hamilton bills itself as an American watch when it hasn't been made in America in over 40 years?

I really like the looks of Hamilton watches, especially the Jazzmaster series. They are very classic pieces, but I just can't get past the fact that they call themselves American when they are part of the Swatch group & haven't had anything to do with the US in nearly half a century. It just seems like false advertising, which I know it isn't thanks to some clever wording, but it does seem very misleading and kind of phony. Does this bother anyone else?


----------



## Redrum (Sep 17, 2008)

ItsMuskyTime said:


> Does it bother anyone that Hamilton bills itself as an American watch when it hasn't been made in America in over 40 years?


No.


----------



## mjrchabot (Apr 5, 2011)

Doesn't bother me at all.
Although they are Swiss made watches, their design and heritage is heavily influenced by early 20th century American culture. I love the brand and I don't mind at all that they are Swiss owned or manufactured. Omega and Hamilton are my #1 and #2, respectively.


----------



## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

mjrchabot said:


> Doesn't bother me at all.
> Although they are Swiss made watches, their design and heritage is heavily influenced by early 20th century American culture. I love the brand and I don't mind at all that they are Swiss owned or manufactured. Omega and Hamilton are my #1 and #2, respectively.


couldn't agree more on this one - including the brands as they are my favorites in the same order. I actually feel Hamilton pays respect to it's American lineage by using the "American Brand" tag line. Its not like Swatch is trying to dupe anyone into thinking Hamilton is American made. Hamilton has such a rich history stemming from it's American roots it would be a shame to market the watches otherwise.


----------



## matt92617 (Mar 18, 2012)

Funny how Chrysler is not American company anymore and it is doing better than when it was managed in U.S. ... I am now starting to see a trend here.


----------



## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

It bothers me in general that many great American brands have been bought up and no longer have anything to do with America. But, that's an overall economic trend. If every American company that was bought and shipped overseas could do as well as the Hamilton brand has done, I'd be a lot less concerned.

Hamilton is my favorite brand. I'm resigned to the fact that today's great watches are mainly from Switzerland. At least there are still great watches. I consider anything that's actually made well and of significant value due to its quality and finish to be rare. Most of the "stuff" for sale around the world is worthless garbage. That's one of the reasons I like watches so much. You can still buy hand-made quality when you buy one.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

matt92617 said:


> Funny how Chrysler is not American company anymore and it is doing better than when it was managed in U.S. ... I am now starting to see a trend here.


Let's be honest. Chrysler definitely got the better end of that merger. And I mean by a HUGE degree. An executive over at Chrysler either did a magnificent job of promoting the brand, or the executive over at Daimler who agreed to the merger is an idiot. Now you have Chrysler vehicles out there that definitely show much better quality and fit than before the merger. As for Daimler . . .

With regards to Hamilton, yes; it bothers me a bit. Hamilton once used to be the American brand that Swiss-Made brands feared. That's not even remotely the case now. Hamilton still makes some excellent timepieces. But it's not the same.


----------



## Adam S (Oct 13, 2011)

Hamilton has not made watches for decades. Swatch group owns this brand now and puts out very affordable mechanical watches. I'm not complaining. Hamilton could exist as a company today in the USA wich has even less worker rights then Swizterland. Why does the biggest super power in the world treat its citizens worse than the Swiss, or prettying any industrialized nation. It's a travesty and it needs to change.


----------



## vago23 (Jun 15, 2010)

We live in a global marketplace, so no, it does not bother me either. GM, Ford, Chrysler are not American cars but are very much American companies.


----------



## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

Made in the USA was lost when big corporations started opening Sweat Shops in Asia and Mexico and outsourcing everywhere else. Nothing is fully made in the US anymore.


----------



## matt92617 (Mar 18, 2012)

napel said:


> Made in the USA was lost when big corporations started opening Sweat Shops in Asia and Mexico and outsourcing everywhere else. Nothing is fully made in the US anymore.


that and the monkey politics in which end of year bonus is better than survival of the company or jobs. that's what brought down Chrysler and a bunch of other companies in U.S.


----------



## JustJ (Mar 18, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Let's be honest. Chrysler definitely got the better end of that merger. And I mean by a HUGE degree. An executive over at Chrysler either did a magnificent job of promoting the brand, or the executive over at Daimler who agreed to the merger is an idiot. Now you have Chrysler vehicles out there that definitely show much better quality and fit than before the merger. As for Daimler . . .
> 
> With regards to Hamilton, yes; it bothers me a bit. Hamilton once used to be the American brand that Swiss-Made brands feared. That's not even remotely the case now. Hamilton still makes some excellent timepieces. But it's not the same.


Not true at all. Daimler basically destroyed Chrysler and sold it off. Fiat will not. They actually plan to unify their production.


----------



## matt92617 (Mar 18, 2012)

I think Chrysler is in way better off in Italian hands than in American pockets. Italians love their cars and they will never destroy a brand. I think it might end up similar to what happened to Hamilton.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

JustJ said:


> Not true at all. Daimler basically destroyed Chrysler and sold it off. Fiat will not. They actually plan to unify their production.


Destroyed it? Chrysler is not only still around, but making far better quality vehicles than it has for years. Have you seen the latest crop of Chrysler vehicles on showroom floors, or test driven them? The Daimler influence is still there. Unfortunately, the Chrysler influence was blatantly obvious too, on certain Mercedes-Benz models. Certain cheap-feeling parts and poor panel gaps on certain Mercedes-Benz models. Thankfully that was put an end to before the brand was de-valued. Daimler merged with a piece of crap car brand, doesn't matter if it was an American brand or not, and it was Chrysler that benefited.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

matt92617 said:


> I think Chrysler is in way better off in Italian hands than in American pockets. Italians love their cars and they will never destroy a brand.


Once again, Chrysler still around. Still making cars.


----------



## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

Adam S said:


> Hamilton has not made watches for decades. Swatch group owns this brand now and puts out very affordable mechanical watches. I'm not complaining. Hamilton could exist as a company today in the USA wich has even less worker rights then Swizterland. Why does the biggest super power in the world treat its citizens worse than the Swiss, or prettying any industrialized nation. It's a travesty and it needs to change.


Switzerland doesn't have 150,000,000 people sitting on their sorry a** waiting for people who work, like me, to bankroll their joke of a life. Switzerland has the luxury of being liberal because they don't have droves of losers living off the status quo. After America is overrun and destroyed they will flood into the next vacuum of ignorance waiting to receive them. "oh, they're pathetic . We need to help them". Watch.


----------



## BaCaitlin (Sep 6, 2009)

Bremont watches are promoted as English watches...but they also have the "swiss made" wording on the dials of their watches...Let's face it ...the words "swiss made" sells...


----------



## JustJ (Mar 18, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Destroyed it? Chrysler is not only still around, but making far better quality vehicles than it has for years. Have you seen the latest crop of Chrysler vehicles on showroom floors, or test driven them? The Daimler influence is still there. Unfortunately, the Chrysler influence was blatantly obvious too, on certain Mercedes-Benz models. Certain cheap-feeling parts and poor panel gaps on certain Mercedes-Benz models. Thankfully that was put an end to before the brand was de-valued. Daimler merged with a piece of crap car brand, doesn't matter if it was an American brand or not, and it was Chrysler that benefited.


They purposely used sub-par materials in the Chrysler brands.

Mercedes-Benz is a lackluster brand itself. Their fit and finish may be nice but not worth their premium, at all, maybe similar to Chrysler? You ever drive their Sprinter series? Junk.


----------



## gyang333 (Jun 12, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> Once again, Chrysler still around. Still making cars.


he's agreeing with you.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

JustJ said:


> They purposely used sub-par materials in the Chrysler brands.
> 
> Mercedes-Benz is a lackluster brand itself. Their fit and finish may be nice but not worth their premium, at all, maybe similar to Chrysler? You ever drive their Sprinter series? Junk.


I agree that Mercedes-Benz isn't as great as the marketing hype surrounding the brand. (Like many luxury brands, it used to be better.)

Chrysler unfortunately has been putting out junk cars long before the merger. Back when I was a younger man, my first car was a used Ford Escort. My best friend drove a brand new Dodge Neon. The front seats in his car were a bit more comfortable than the ones in mine. But my older Ford on the inside looked like a luxury car compared to the materials used in his Neon. Especially the plastic bits. Mine felt solid. Doors and glove-box closed with a reassuring thud. His car's felt thin and shallow. Doors and glove box closed with a tiny snap that was barely audible. The plastic parts on his car not only looked cheap, but also felt and sounded cheap too.

The merger with Daimler wasn't what cased the cars to be built with crappy parts. That was an issue long before Daimler got involved. Could Daimler have done a lot more in improving Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep vehicles? Yes, they could have done more. But Daimler didn't sabotage Chrysler.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

gyang333 said:


> he's agreeing with you.


Not really. Once again, I don't see the arguement that Daimler was out to destroy Chrysler.


----------



## JustJ (Mar 18, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I agree that Mercedes-Benz isn't as great as the marketing hype surrounding the brand. (Like many luxury brands, it used to be better.)
> 
> Chrysler unfortunately has been putting out junk cars long before the merger. Back when I was a younger man, my first car was a used Ford Escort. My best friend drove a brand new Dodge Neon. The front seats in his car were a bit more comfortable than the ones in mine. But my older Ford on the inside looked like a luxury car compared to the materials used in his Neon. Especially the plastic bits. Mine felt solid. Doors and glove-box closed with a reassuring thud. His car's felt thin and shallow. Doors and glove box closed with a tiny snap that was barely audible. The plastic parts on his car not only looked cheap, but also felt and sounded cheap too.
> 
> The merger with Daimler wasn't what cased the cars to be built with crappy parts. That was an issue long before Daimler got involved. Could Daimler have done a lot more in improving Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep vehicles? Yes, they could have done more. But Daimler didn't sabotage Chrysler.


I sat in a Jeep Unlimited this morning. I was very impressed. Didn't even think about it until now.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

JustJ said:


> I sat in a Jeep Unlimited this morning. I was very impressed. Didn't even think about it until now.


A new one? The quality has definitely improved from what I remember back when I was younger.


----------



## subrosa (Dec 2, 2008)

I think modern Hamilton is "American" influenced, so it doesn't bug me much. 

One of my dreams in life would be to buy one of the big vintage American labels and bring them back here...sadly I need to get rich first.


----------



## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

I think made in America can still be competitive compare to made in Swiss. I don't think wages plays apart. They shall shift back the production back to America.


----------



## glengoyne17 (May 29, 2011)

I like the watches. I have two, styling is distinctive to me. I think overall the brand is pretty unknown except for fora like this. Only know the brand myself for three years. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Actually, Hamilton is a pretty well known brand. Hollywood adopted it long ago, and quite a few celebs actually wear Hamiltons. Any elderly man who served in WW2 knows Hamilton quite well also.


----------



## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

matt92617 said:


> Funny how Chrysler is not American company anymore and it is doing better than when it was managed in U.S. ... I am now starting to see a trend here.


Chrysler was one of the most profitable car companies prior to the Mercedes merger. Mercedes took all their cash and then split apart the companies.


----------



## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

I don't know of any watch that is even close to being American made so I appreciate what Swatch has done with the Hamilton brand and the classic styling.


----------



## gyang333 (Jun 12, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> Not really. Once again, I don't see the arguement that Daimler was out to destroy Chrysler.










Originally Posted by *matt92617* 
_I think Chrysler is in way better off in Italian hands than in American pockets. Italians love their cars and they will never destroy a brand._
He's not comparing Fiat ownership to Daimler ownership. He's saying that Chrysler is better off being a part of Fiat than it was when Cerberus had it and then when the US government owned it through the bailout process. If anything, his post had nothing to do with Daimler or it's influence on Chrysler.


----------



## ROBERT A (Aug 19, 2011)

Hamilton is widely recognized - past and present.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Perseus said:


> I don't know of any watch that is even close to being American made so I appreciate what Swatch has done with the Hamilton brand and the classic styling.


RGM is currently as close as one can get.


----------



## iam7head (Dec 16, 2010)

ItsMuskyTime said:


> Does it bother anyone that Hamilton bills itself as an American watch when it hasn't been made in America in over 40 years?
> 
> I really like the looks of Hamilton watches, especially the Jazzmaster series. They are very classic pieces, but I just can't get past the fact that they call themselves American when they are part of the Swatch group & haven't had anything to do with the US in nearly half a century. It just seems like false advertising, which I know it isn't thanks to some clever wording, but it does seem very misleading and kind of phony. Does this bother anyone else?


Most Italian roadbike are made & assembled in Taiwan and China because it's more cost effective and the Chinese actually built better bike out there(for manual intensive Carbon fiber bike at 5-15k USD price range)

is Bianchi, Pinerallo any less italian just because it's done out there? um...maybe. But it sure beats putting down 10k to have an inferior built bike with 2 years lead time.

Just be grateful your hammy isn't 15k..they would if hamilton follow the foot step of the other "American" watch company by Mr. Jones


----------



## watch_tech (Apr 26, 2010)

Yes, it is now owned by the Swatch group but it is still a great American brand and most of their watches are inspired by or still true to it's original properties. No, it does not bother me because the best watches on the planet are still made by the Swiss. So, in a way you are getting a lot more than what you really paid for and I do love a great bargain.


----------



## glengoyne17 (May 29, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> Actually, Hamilton is a pretty well known brand. Hollywood adopted it long ago, and quite a few celebs actually wear Hamiltons. Any elderly man who served in WW2 knows Hamilton quite well also.


US veterans. However I'm from Europe. Hardly anyone here knows it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## napel (Feb 21, 2011)

glengoyne17 said:


> US veterans. However I'm from Europe. Hardly anyone here knows it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lots of Europeans and Asias wear and know about Hamiltons


----------



## ErikS (May 21, 2009)

Hamilton isn't made in America? Oh no, say it ain't so....................oh crap & I was planning a trip to the factory next weekend..........bummer

</sarcasm>



JustJ said:


> ..................... You ever drive their Sprinter series? Junk.


Yeah, they hvae that just horrible Merc diesel in them...................what a goob, and you have a drivers license?



Monocrom said:


> Chrysler unfortunately has been putting out junk cars long before the merger. ................


Longer still, they've pretty much always made rubbish. Last time they made anything decent was the muscle car era - bodies were still trash but the drivetrains were good. Couldn't break a 727...........some of us tried pretty hard though.



Perseus said:


> Chrysler was one of the most profitable car companies prior to the Mercedes merger. Mercedes took all their cash and then split apart the companies.


When exactly? Between which three times of near bankruptcy were they profitable? Just before Iacocca? Before Merc bought them, or recently before going to Fiat (the POS builder who hade to leave the US market because they couldn't compete).

And exactly what is the huge plus of being built Americans? The morons who b*tch about $4/gallon gas while paying $16/gallon for freaking water?


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

watch_tech said:


> Yes, it is now owned by the Swatch group but it is still a great American brand and most of their watches are inspired by or still true to it's original properties. No, it does not bother me because the best watches on the planet are still made by the Swiss. So, in a way you are getting a lot more than what you really paid for and I do love a great bargain.


You can't take away the history of the brand. That is firmly American for sure. There are plenty of companies out there headquartered in America, but their products are made in a different country. Technically, such companies are American. But not in a practical way. As far as car brands go, a Toyota Camry assembled in a plant in America is far more American than a Chevy Impala built in Mexico. I'll give credit where it's due. The Swatch Group saved Hamilton from oblivion. A good reason why was out of respect for the brand. Clearly the executives at the Swatch Group felt that it was still a popular and profitable brand. There's good reason for that mentality.

Back when pocket-watches were still the norm, Hamilton was making timepieces that had the Swiss shivering in their boots and causing them plenty of restless nights. Hamilton's line of pocket-watches was used as the railroad standard. A standard that today, some quartz watches couldn't live up to. Current COSC certified timepieces wouldn't be good enough. Railroad standard timepieces at a time when quartz technology didn't exist were insanely accurate. At around $2,000 back during an era when $5 literally bought you a huge luxury meal at a high-end hotel or restaurant, a Hamilton pocket-watch wasn't inexpensive even in the most remote sense of the word. Hamilton pocket watches were things of functional beauty. They were mechanical watches that would put modern-day quartz watches to shame! And, Hamilton's pocket-watches were consistently made to the extremely rigid railroad standard.

At one time, if you wanted the absolute "best watches on the planet," you didn't buy a Swiss-made timepiece . . . You bought an American-made Hamilton.


----------



## sirpouncealot (Jan 27, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> You can't take away the history of the brand. That is firmly American for sure. There are plenty of companies out there headquartered in America, but their products are made in a different country. Technically, such companies are American. But not in a practical way. As far as car brands go, a Toyota Camry assembled in a plant in America is far more American than a Chevy Impala built in Mexico. I'll give credit where it's due. The Swatch Group saved Hamilton from oblivion. A good reason why was out of respect for the brand. Clearly the executives at the Swatch Group felt that it was still a popular and profitable brand. There's good reason for that mentality.
> 
> Back when pocket-watches were still the norm, Hamilton was making timepieces that had the Swiss shivering in their boots and causing them plenty of restless nights. Hamilton's line of pocket-watches was used as the railroad standard. A standard that today, some quartz watches couldn't live up to. Current COSC certified timepieces wouldn't be good enough. Railroad standard timepieces at a time when quartz technology didn't exist were insanely accurate. At around $2,000 back during an era when $5 literally bought you a huge luxury meal at a high-end hotel or restaurant, a Hamilton pocket-watch wasn't inexpensive even in the most remote sense of the word. Hamilton pocket watches were things of functional beauty. They were mechanical watches that would put modern-day quartz watches to shame! And, Hamilton's pocket-watches were consistently made to the extremely rigid railroad standard.
> 
> At one time, if you wanted the absolute "best watches on the planet," you didn't buy a Swiss-made timepiece . . . You bought an American-made Hamilton.


Sorry mate, but I'm afraid the required accuracy for railroad watches in the heydays of American watchmaking industry was only +/-30s per WEEK, better than the overhyped COSC and definitely better than bog-standard-off-the-shelf modern mechanical movements but in fact, pale in the face of any bog-standard-off-the-shelf quartz movement within +/-15s per MONTH. AFAIK, modern affordable quartz mvmt like Citizen/Bulova Precisionist can attain the very respectable accuracy of +/-10 (or is it 15~20 - I don't remember ) seconds per YEAR. 
Back to the brand, I think Swatch has done a good job with Hamilton, their designs always manage to retain the American lineage at very reasonable price points. I understand the sentiment some feel seeing a top American brand become another low level Swiss sub-brand but I'm (and many more) really glad Swatch didn't keep this much loved brand in a higher price bracket.


----------



## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

ErikS said:


> When exactly? Between which three times of near bankruptcy were they profitable? Just before Iacocca? Before Merc bought them, or recently before going to Fiat (the POS builder who hade to leave the US market because they couldn't compete).
> 
> And exactly what is the huge plus of being built Americans? The morons who b*tch about $4/gallon gas while paying $16/gallon for freaking water?


In the 80's and 90's. Have you heard of the minivan?


----------



## matt92617 (Mar 18, 2012)

Perseus said:


> In the 80's and 90's. Have you heard of the minivan?


in the 90s yeah but not in the 80s


----------



## Torrid (May 20, 2007)

Adam S said:


> Hamilton has not made watches for decades. Swatch group owns this brand now and puts out very affordable mechanical watches. I'm not complaining. Hamilton could exist as a company today in the USA wich has even less worker rights then Swizterland. Why does the biggest super power in the world treat its citizens worse than the Swiss, or prettying any industrialized nation. It's a travesty and it needs to change.


I'll have what you are smoking.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

sirpouncealot said:


> Sorry mate, but I'm afraid the required accuracy for railroad watches in the heydays of American watchmaking industry was only +/-30s per WEEK, better than the overhyped COSC and definitely better than bog-standard-off-the-shelf modern mechanical movements but in fact, pale in the face of any bog-standard-off-the-shelf quartz movement within +/-15s per MONTH. AFAIK, modern affordable quartz mvmt like Citizen/Bulova Precisionist can attain the very respectable accuracy of +/-10 (or is it 15~20 - I don't remember ) seconds per YEAR.


No offense, but you completely misread my post.

My main point was that there was time, before quartz watches even existed, that Hamilton made the best mechanical watches in the industry. Hamilton, an American watch company, put the various Swiss brands to shame because Hamilton consistently met Railroad Standards. This was impressive as Hell because R.S. is far more strict than COSC. Meeting R.S. is indeed easy for any quartz model. But back then, when pocket-watches were as common as Smartphones are today, quartz technology didn't exist. I'm sure they would have used quartz watches back then. But the technology didn't exist back then. Hamilton consistently made incredibly accurate mechanical watches back then. And back then, Hamilton was 100% American.


----------



## sirpouncealot (Jan 27, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> No offense, but you completely misread my post.
> 
> My main point was that there was time, before quartz watches even existed, that Hamilton made the best mechanical watches in the industry. Hamilton, an American watch company, put the various Swiss brands to shame because Hamilton consistently met Railroad Standards. This was impressive as Hell because R.S. is far more strict than COSC. Meeting R.S. is indeed easy for any quartz model. But back then, when pocket-watches were as common as Smartphones are today, quartz technology didn't exist. I'm sure they would have used quartz watches back then. But the technology didn't exist back then. Hamilton consistently made incredibly accurate mechanical watches back then. And back then, Hamilton was 100% American.


I beg to differ, your statements as in *"...as the railroad standard. A standard that today, some quartz watches couldn't live up to."* and *"...were things of functional beauty. They were mechanical watches that would put modern-day quartz watches to shame!"* would leave me no other interpretation. I argued that the railroad standard (+/-30s per week) is within the capability of every quartz watches nowadays, and seriously, you'll be hard pressed to point out any quartz movement which is worse than +/- 120s per month when the ones in dirt cheap 10 bucks watches usually are +/-15s per month. 
And I am not so sure about the "functional beauty" part as I don't have any first hand experience with vintage Hamilton watches but I can agree that even cheap, undecorated 17 jewels clones from China are more aesthetic appealing than many (if not most of) modern quartz movements. That being said, I still failed to see how could late 19th - early 20th century mechanical watches which were *heavily emphasis on function* (a.k.a accuracy, shock protection, water, temperature and humidity resistance ) put any modern quartz watch to shame* function wise?*
Other points about Hamilton are quite valid, I read my share of watchmaking history.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Gee, thanks for taking parts of my other post completely out of context.

Welcome to WUS. You're probably not a troll, but lately I've seen a few too many new members on WUS who it seems only want to stir up an arguement. I'm not in the mood. So, Welcome to my Ignore List as well. You can have the last word in this small discussion between us. I don't care, and I won't see it anyway.

Have a nice day.


----------



## spain72 (Oct 27, 2010)

The Swatch Group had the Honour and the Burden to "save" and bring back to LIFE (and then on the Market) many famous Brands. Important is to keep Traditions alive. ;-)

Historical Hamilton's watches design is still alive and kicking... and recognized allover the World. |>

About movements, is normal if they use Swiss Parts. Probably Swatch Group is also an ETA stockholder...
Would you buy apples from your neighbour if you own an apple tree in your garden? :-d


----------



## gyang333 (Jun 12, 2010)

spain72 said:


> The Swatch Group had the Honour and the Burden to "save" and bring back to LIFE (and then on the Market) many famous Brands. Important is to keep Traditions alive. ;-)
> 
> Historical Hamilton's watches design is still alive and kicking... and recognized allover the World. |>
> 
> ...


not probably. Swatch *owns* ETA.


----------



## spain72 (Oct 27, 2010)

...eheheh...thanks. I was not really sure!!!!!!


----------



## ndabunka (Dec 13, 2011)

ROBERT A said:


> couldn't agree more on this one - including the brands as they are my favorites in the same order. I actually feel Hamilton pays respect to it's American lineage by using the "American Brand" tag line. Its not like Swatch is trying to dupe anyone into thinking Hamilton is American made. Hamilton has such a rich history stemming from it's American roots it would be a shame to market the watches otherwise.


+1000


----------



## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

They certainly don't claim to be American made, just that it is the American brand since 1892. It will always be an American brand, it's that iconic. A little bit of research quickly reveals the history of Hamilton, and thier khaki line is the most compelling story because it is the watch that saved the free world during WWII. I think the Swatch group does a great job of holding true to the American brand by extending the Hamilton lineage with thier designs, at a terrific price point.


----------



## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

Robotaz said:


> Switzerland has the luxury of being liberal because they don't have droves of losers living off the status quo.


Actually, all of Europe has the luxury of being liberal socialists because of thier proxy U.S. military, which eleviates thier need to pay for thier own militaries. And the current situation in Europe indicates that they have taken thier entitlement societies to new fiscal disaster lows.


----------



## flipstah (May 20, 2012)

... Anymore.


----------



## Matillac (Sep 23, 2009)

This one's American!


----------



## drthmaul (Sep 26, 2011)

Doesn't really bother me. I still love my Khaki King


----------



## Torrid (May 20, 2007)

johnj said:


> Actually, all of Europe has the luxury of being liberal socialists because of thier proxy U.S. military, which eleviates thier need to pay for thier own militaries. And the current situation in Europe indicates that they have taken thier entitlement societies to new fiscal disaster lows.


Sad but true.


----------



## eisenhauer (May 2, 2012)

As a matter of historical fact, no American watch company - save Timex - survived the species extinction that followed the introduction of the Quartz watch introduced by Seiko in the 70's. With or without the Swatch Group, Hamilton as a company was doomed. Swatch has done an excellent job in keeping alive, and building upon, the heritage that was Hamilton. Look at the intramatic, Thin-O-Matic, Khaki and others. All are affordable and none over 1,000 (with maybe an exception or two)'

In a way, Swatch has become 'Americanized' through its various acquisitions of American watch companies in the same sort of way that Rome became Hellinezed through its conquest of Greece. Remember from your history that Greek, not Latin, was the language of the Roman empire. ;-)

Just my .02

Eisenhauer


----------



## elconquistador (Jul 13, 2010)

All my Hammys are made in America :-d.


----------



## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

elconquistador said:


> All my Hammys are made in America :-d.


How the???? Did you take vintage hammy movements and put them in new cases?


----------



## elconquistador (Jul 13, 2010)

Yes. I originally got the idea from RGM. Tourby, who is on this site also makes a fantastic, and expensive re-cased Hamilton wrist watch. Mine are a little different as two of the ones you see use refinished versions of the original Hamilton PW dials.

The Hamilton movements are very well made, nicely finished and just the right size for a modern wristwatch (the cases above are 42 and 44MM). I have the movements overhauled and they keep great time. Just no shock protection on the balance staff, so not for playing tennis.

It took me about a year to make the first one. Now that I have sources for all the components I have considered making them for sale.


----------



## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

elconquistador said:


> The Hamilton movements are very well made, nicely finished and just the right size for a modern wristwatch (the cases above are 42 and 44MM). I have the movements overhauled and they keep great time. Just no shock protection on the balance staff, so not for playing tennis.
> 
> It took me about a year to make the first one. Now that I have sources for all the components I have considered making them for sale.


This is really cool. I would love to have a watch like this, knowing that the engine is an American made vintage Hammy whose previous life could have been used by who knows who...


----------



## joe_b (Sep 9, 2011)

johnj said:


> This is really cool. I would love to have a watch like this, knowing that the engine is an American made vintage Hammy whose previous life could have been used by who knows who...


Totally in the same boat


----------



## Jebhut (Apr 12, 2010)

Robotaz said:


> Switzerland doesn't have 150,000,000 people sitting on their sorry a** waiting for people who work, like me, to bankroll their joke of a life. Switzerland has the luxury of being liberal because they don't have droves of losers living off the status quo. After America is overrun and destroyed they will flood into the next vacuum of ignorance waiting to receive them. "oh, they're pathetic . We need to help them". Watch.


Old post - just saw it, while checking one of my brands, Hamilton, who like other American companies, can no longer afford to be profitable here with all the lawsuits and astonomical healthcare costs (which Swiss employers DON'T have to deal with!!!)...but had to respond...the Swiss also never went to war, or spend trillions putting military all over the world?? We'd be in much better shape, had we not cut taxes for billionaires while starting the costliest, longest (and unecessary) war in our history (or the staggering future medical costs for the highest number of disabled vets in our history of wars)?

Not to get too political on a watch thread, but since it was started...the Swiss, one of the wealthiest countries, actually have aliberal and conservative working partnership - the country works together to better their country - kind of like the 90's here - greatest economic prosperity in 2 generations with record numbers educated to get off welfare)!! Short memory!

Assume you (or anyone in your entire extended family) never plan to retire, or use the liberal 'Socialist' programs of Social Security or Medicare! (PS - The Swiss have no uninsured and NO insurance through employers - everyone pays - no freeloaders like we have here, going to Emergency Rooms!)! Assume you will opt to take care of _everyone (folks, kids, siblings)_ if things become tough (illness, natural disaster) rather than expect government assistance from 'liberal' programs, like FEMA.


----------



## Lampmode (Mar 16, 2012)

Robotaz said:


> It bothers me in general that many great American brands have been bought up and no longer have anything to do with America. But, that's an overall economic trend. If every American company that was bought and shipped overseas could do as well as the Hamilton brand has done, I'd be a lot less concerned.
> 
> Hamilton is my favorite brand. I'm resigned to the fact that today's great watches are mainly from Switzerland. At least there are still great watches. I consider anything that's actually made well and of significant value due to its quality and finish to be rare. Most of the "stuff" for sale around the world is worthless garbage. That's one of the reasons I like watches so much. You can still buy hand-made quality when you buy one.


I live in Lancaster PA the former home of Hamilton. The way i understand it is Hamilton boight out a Swiss maker, their patens etc, and then moved the operation to Switzerland. Later they were bought out by Swatch. They didnt sell out, they were the buyer and then they were bought out.


----------



## BlinkyNIN (Oct 7, 2011)

Lampmode said:


> I live in Lancaster PA the former home of Hamilton. The way i understand it is Hamilton boight out a Swiss maker, their patens etc, and then moved the operation to Switzerland. Later they were bought out by Swatch. They didnt sell out, they were the buyer and then they were bought out.


I was just going to post that. Hamilton made the move to Switzerland first. Swatch had nothing to do with it.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

It's not as though Hamilton was a fully American company one day then overnight that changed. It happened gradually over time. The rich history associated with the brand can't ever be changed though. That's a plus.


----------



## 6SpeedTA95 (Mar 19, 2010)

Does it bother me? Yeah frankly it does a little, I'm tired of people assuming we can't make good products in this country...WE CAN! It would be nice if we had a mid and upper tier watch producer (among other things) in this country. But no one wants to attempt to compete with the Swiss and the Japanese (which also make tremendous mechanical and quartz movements). 

Overall I would say the Swatch group has done a good job keeping the brand true to its roots. For that I am thankful. The designs are decidedly American with a classic US flair that's so engrained in their designs you can't just pick one aspect and say it's "American". From top to bottom the design of their products pay tribute to the history and the heritage built here in the US. As long as that remains I'll continue to be a fan. 

Perhaps one day someone will buy up the Hamilton brand, take it private and bring it back to the US, but that's not happening anytime soon.


----------



## Gerry.GEG (Mar 5, 2006)

Adam S said:


> Hamilton has not made watches for decades. Swatch group owns this brand now and puts out very affordable mechanical watches. I'm not complaining. Hamilton could exist as a company today in the USA wich has even less worker rights then Switzerland. Why does the biggest super power in the world treat its citizens worse than the Swiss, or prettying any industrialized nation. It's a travesty and it needs to change.


Americans moved away from automatic and mechanical watches years ago. So, when quartz took over there was no money to be made here in the USA. Ergo, all manufacturing stopped or moved to where the infrastructure was still viable (Switzerland). Most know too that the Swiss had their own crisis when the quartz revolution started and they almost lost their will to manufacture mechanized timepieces. We are very happy they didn't let this art die.

I find it disheartening the the US has a capitalistic model that throws everything away without concern for the future. But, that's what we get when it is all decided by what consumers want or will buy; and I do understand that is at the heart of every product.


----------



## Jebhut (Apr 12, 2010)

Interesting thread evolution here...the Chrysler/Daimler/Fiat detour was interesting...kind of...NOT!

As for Hamilton, they were one of the first US brands, one of the biggest in the world, topping a million a year, shutting down private sector sales to supply soldiers in WWII. Only time the Swiss were given a run for their money in the 'art' of mechanical timepieces.

It was still a _romantic_ time for the US...we still believed we had a great country, (before dropping down the lists of educated, quality of life, infant mortality, on and on...) and could produce the best products in the world (cars, watches, guns) - unlike today, when we can't produce the best _anything but _Wall St. 'paper'!? And our priority, as stated earlier in this thread, is year end bonuses, short term profitability, with no regard for whose products we are loyal to (hence no support for fellow Americans' jobs or belief in their comppetence!) Truth is, China's government buys their companies top notch manufacturing equipment our private sector can't compete with...(coupled with wages so low an American couldn't survive on) We couldn't make Hamilton cases in the US and still compete.

That said, just bought a Hamilton Mechanical nine eater, ETA6498, that's one heck of a watch - looking at my PAM111, and gotta wonder about literally ten times the price, same movement, etc?? Owned a couple Hamiltons, one was a cool Sunset model with Valjoux 7753 for under a grand from an AD (again from the movies...Will Smith "I Am Legend"). How do you compete with that - an individual/boutique brand simply could not put that product out at those prices. Period. (BTW - I believe Hamilton's been in more movies than any other brand?) Personally, would love if they were still made in the US, but being owned by the huge Swiss comglomerate, is keeping their prices so low with ETA movements all other brands are scrambling too attain!!

I would gladly pay a 40% premium to see them made in the USA again...but believe I am the minority...we've become a Wal-Mart and McDonald's nation...the percent buying Mercedes and BMW's has dropped to a small minority in this country sadly - China will be overtaking us as the largest consumer nation of quality goods in the next decade...


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Gerry.GEG said:


> I find it disheartening the the US has a capitalistic model that throws everything away without concern for the future. But, that's what we get when it is all decided by what consumers want or will buy; and I do understand that is at the heart of every product.


As opposed to . . .

The greatest minds in the world haven't been able to come up with a better system.


----------



## baronrojo (Jul 14, 2010)

I would rather see Hamilton as a Swiss watch which continues to this day over seeing them suffer the same fate as Gruen and Elgin.


----------



## Lampmode (Mar 16, 2012)

6SpeedTA95 said:


> Does it bother me? Yeah frankly it does a little, I'm tired of people assuming we can't make good products in this country...WE CAN! It would be nice if we had a mid and upper tier watch producer (among other things) in this country. But no one wants to attempt to compete with the Swiss and the Japanese (which also make tremendous mechanical and quartz movements).
> 
> Overall I would say the Swatch group has done a good job keeping the brand true to its roots. For that I am thankful. The designs are decidedly American with a classic US flair that's so engrained in their designs you can't just pick one aspect and say it's "American". From top to bottom the design of their products pay tribute to the history and the heritage built here in the US. As long as that remains I'll continue to be a fan.
> 
> Perhaps one day someone will buy up the Hamilton brand, take it private and bring it back to the US, but that's not happening anytime soon.


Just keeping with the Lancaster County, PA watch company theme.... These guys RGM put out nice watches, made right here in the Keystone state. They don't have the cred, but I would put their Grand Complication against any of those Swiss or Japanese models.


----------



## ChelseaFan (Apr 26, 2011)

Oakley is now bought out and part of luxottica. Still love Oakley. Favorite brand of eyewear as well as ray-ban.


----------



## milton92 (Jul 18, 2012)

baronrojo said:


> I would rather see Hamilton as a Swiss watch which continues to this day over seeing them suffer the same fate as Gruen and Elgin.


Exactly!


----------



## HamiltonElectric (Jul 5, 2012)

Lampmode said:


> Just keeping with the Lancaster County, PA watch company theme.... These guys RGM put out nice watches, made right here in the Keystone state. They don't have the cred, but I would put their Grand Complication against any of those Swiss or Japanese models.


I'm known as a Hamilton guy, what with two books in several editions under my name, and a very large collection of vintage Hamiltons. I'm also a Hamilton AD for the modern watches. But of all the watches I have in my personal rotation, my two RGMs are among my favorites. Especially my 801, which has a proprietary American movement. Great watches.


----------



## djkay (Jan 5, 2012)

Perseus said:


> Chrysler was one of the most profitable car companies prior to the Mercedes merger. Mercedes took all their cash and then split apart the companies.


And now they are being sued just for that by there new owners.


----------



## djkay (Jan 5, 2012)

American watches are still around as noted in this forum. Check out Towson (Maryland) watch company. All I can say is WOW.
Towson Watch Company


----------



## samuelrz (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm a little torn on the subject, but it's still a great looking timepiece.


----------



## eisenhower (Aug 3, 2012)

Most marketing ploys bother me. Hamilton, along with many other companies, uses "American" as an aesthetic when the company is not even American anymore. It is bad when other companies outsource labor, but Hamilton isn't even headquartered in America. Other than the name, and some of the designs, what is "American" about Hamilton?

Now a company like American Apparel I think justifies itself by making their products in the US.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

eisenhower said:


> Other than the name, and some of the designs, what is "American" about Hamilton?


The history of the brand.


----------



## eisenhower (Aug 3, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> The history of the brand.


I said _other than the name_


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

eisenhower said:


> I said _other than the name_


The name is "Hamilton."

The history goes far beyond one word. If someone asked me about the history of the brand and I gave a one word response of "Hamilton," they'd look at me as if I was insane and slowly back out of the room.


----------



## eisenhower (Aug 3, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> The name is "Hamilton."
> 
> The history goes far beyond one word. If someone asked me about the history of the brand and I gave a one word response of "Hamilton," they'd look at me as if I was insane and slowly back out of the room.


Are you neglecting the part of their history when they got bought by the watch conglomerate Swatch, and moved all production and design to Switzerland?

If BMW went out of business, and Hyundai bought the BMW name, and replaced all the engines and internals with Hyundai parts, would you still seriously consider that car an _actual_ BMW? Saying that it still has BMW's history is irrelevant and a bit dishonest, since it is a "BMW" _in_ _name only_


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

*Yawn*

Another troll on WUS.

You know precisely what I meant by history. Everyone who is into watches knows that Hamilton is a Swatch Group brand and has been one for years. Not everyone however knows the huge role Hamilton played in the railroad industry with their line of pocket-watches. Not everyone knows just why the original Hamilton Khaki model is one of the most important watch models ever made. Not everyone knows that Hamilton timepieces were at one point better than anything the Swiss produced. Although the executives at the Swatch Group knew it. They knew enough about Hamilton to know it was worth saving. With the exception of Bulova and Hamilton, all the other established American watch brands are dead. 

Anything can be done to Hamilton in the future. One thing that doesn't change though is its past achievements. Its history. And if you don't think folks are willing to pay for history, go ask Rolex if trading on their past has been a money-maker for them. Decades ago if you spotted a guy wearing a Rolex Submariner you knew he was a professional diver. Nowadays, you see guys wearing one with a suit & tie because James Bond did it. It used to be a pragmatic piece of gear. (Affordable too.) Now they wear it as a piece of jewelery. Only time it sees water is at a restroom sink. And Rolex is perfectly happy to trade on their past and charge thousands in exchange for "pieces of jewelery."

As for me, I'll be here long after you get sick of WUS and decide to go trolling elsewhere.


----------



## eisenhower (Aug 3, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> *Yawn*
> 
> Another troll on WUS.
> 
> ...


Thank you for regaling me with Hamilton's history. Unfortunately, you haven't convinced me that current Hamiltons are not "Hamiltons" in name only.
If Rolex was bought by Swatch and started using generic ETA movements, would you seriously buy one and brag about how it has Rolex's history? Wouldn't people on WUS throw fit about something like that?

If you want to justify your purchase of a Hamilton watch by labeling me as a troll, whatever man. It's your money.


----------



## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

eisenhower said:


> Thank you for regaling me with Hamilton's history. Unfortunately, you haven't convinced me that current Hamiltons are not "Hamiltons" in name only. If Rolex was bought by Swatch and started using generic ETA movements, would you seriously buy one and brag about how it has Rolex's history? Wouldn't people on WUS throw fit about something like that?


What you are saying doesn't make sense. Hamilton watches have the tagline "The American Brand since....." The key word here is Brand! They are not saying it is an American watch, or has any American made components in it. They are however using actual authentic Hamilton designs from the era when Hamilton was a 100% American company. They could still call themselves the "American brand" even if they didn't use the Hamilton designs because the Hamilton name is a well known "American brand."

What about Tag Heuer? The Tag Heuer company is not the original Heuer watch company, and many believe that the only Heuer watch worth owning is an original Heuer, before the company was decimated by the quartz revolution. Should Tag not use the word Heuer in their name? They do it for a reason, and it's because of Swiss cache.

Hamilton has a very long history with some amazing movements that rivaled anything that was made by the Swiss, so they have earned their position in the Swiss brand cache because of their American horological excellence. IWC was started by an American, but he went to Switzerland because that was, and still is, the center of Horology. Hamilton moved themselves to Switzerland, they didn't get bought. In fact they bought a Swiss watch company first. It's actually a good thing they did because it made it possible for them to still exist. And since it's owned by the same group that owns Omega, I know that the watches will still be quality.


----------



## eisenhower (Aug 3, 2012)

johnj said:


> What you are saying doesn't make sense. Hamilton watches have the tagline "The American Brand since....." The key word here is Brand! They are not saying it is an American watch, or has any American made components in it. They are however using actual authentic Hamilton designs from the era when Hamilton was a 100% American company. They could still call themselves the "American brand" even if they didn't use the Hamilton designs because the Hamilton name is a well known "American brand."
> 
> What about Tag Heuer? The Tag Heuer company is not the original Heuer watch company, and many believe that the only Heuer watch worth owning is an original Heuer, before the company was decimated by the quartz revolution. Should Tag not use the word Heuer in their name? They do it for a reason, and it's because of Swiss cache.
> 
> Hamilton has a very long history with some amazing movements that rivaled anything that was made by the Swiss, so they have earned their position in the Swiss brand cache because of their American horological excellence. IWC was started by an American, but he went to Switzerland because that was, and still is, the center of Horology. Hamilton moved themselves to Switzerland, they didn't get bought. In fact they bought a Swiss watch company first. It's actually a good thing they did because it made it possible for them to still exist. And since it's owned by the same group that owns Omega, I know that the watches will still be quality.


Well they are legally restricted to only being able to say they are an "American Brand". Some people are mislead into believing the watches are American, which is the benefit of using that type of marketing. It is also meaningless, I mean, what serious person cares about the brand name only? There is no resemblance to the original American Hamilton, so who cares if it has the same name? It is stupid marketing, and you are eating it up.

Tag Heuer is not really a well respected watch company for the reason you mentioned.


----------



## Syed117 (Aug 13, 2012)

eisenhower said:


> Well they are legally restricted to only being able to say they are an "American Brand". Some people are mislead into believing the watches are American, which is the benefit of using that type of marketing. It is also meaningless, I mean, what serious person cares about the brand name only? There is no resemblance to the original American Hamilton, so who cares if it has the same name? It is stupid marketing, and you are eating it up.
> 
> Tag Heuer is not really a well respected watch company for the reason you mentioned.


You're still at this?

Let it go. People are calling you a troll because you a behaving like one. Why does it matter to you what others think or feel? If you don't like it, thats perfectly fine, but it's not your place to push your opinion on anyone else. That by definition is the behavior of a troll and that's exactly what you are doing.

I have a Hamilton that I love and I didn't buy it because of it being an American brand or an American watch. It says Swiss made and for the most part, they make decent watches. They have been around for a long time. Whether or not their heritage directly reflects what they are doing today doesn't matter as long as they are still producing a quality product.

Let it go. No one on a forum of Hamilton fans cares what some random Hamilton hater has to say.


----------



## eisenhower (Aug 3, 2012)

Syed117 said:


> You're still at this?
> 
> Let it go. People are calling you a troll because you a behaving like one. Why does it matter to you what others think or feel? If you don't like it, thats perfectly fine, but it's not your place to push your opinion on anyone else. That by definition is the behavior of a troll and that's exactly what you are doing.
> 
> ...



A troll is someone who expresses their opinion? What is wrong with you? In case you didn't realize, I am not the OP. 
It seems rather silly to click on a thread titled "Hamilton is not an American watch" expecting nobody to share that opinion.

People seem really sensitive about this topic. Understandably, I wouldn't want to be seen as someone who falls for marketing tricks (like milking a brand's disparate past history in an attempt to appear authentic).


----------



## DLXXV (Aug 4, 2012)

My .02

I personnaly bought a Hamilton because of its brand history, yes theyre owned by the Swatch group for some 50 years now which means 50 years of pure quality Swiss made watch making. But theyre around for much longer then that. I dont just buy a watch (or for that matter any article) just for the brand. I do reasearch and when it comes out that they have experience in what they do I am confident in buying that particular article. 

I dont care that they were taken over by the Swatch group in fact this made Hamilton even stonger imo. Whats better then a Swiss made watch!

In any case, you dont like it dont buy it.

I am in Marketing and yes its pure marketing, but what isnt, any given article is marketed in a certain way that you can agree or disagree with it. You are not forced to buy it but the brand history is proven to go back as far as 1892. Thats what it merely states.


----------



## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

eisenhower said:


> It is also meaningless, I mean, what serious person cares about the brand name only? There is no resemblance to the original American Hamilton, so who cares if it has the same name? It is stupid marketing, and you are eating it up.


I just told you they use actual American Hamilton designs. They reproduce a bunch of original American Hamilton models, the most famous of which is the khaki. This is not duping anyone into falling for advertising tricks. If I want to buy a Trent, Loyd, or Ardmore, I can still buy these watches. They are the original American designs.


----------



## Cyclone (Sep 29, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> *Yawn*
> 
> Another troll on WUS.
> 
> ...


You mean exactly what BMW did with Mini.. have owned both, the brand still has charm.. I have a new hamilton Intra matic.. and an old Pan europ, love them both.. and incase anyone was interested our mini cooper is wicked


----------



## daveya (Nov 21, 2009)

Being from the UK Hamilton's US heritage means nothing to me, but the 'Swiss made' bit does.


----------



## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

President of Hamilton watches - Interview Q.1


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

daveya said:


> Being from the UK Hamilton's US heritage means nothing to me, but the 'Swiss made' bit does.


Nowadays there is Bremont for those in the UK.

Back in the day, if you wanted the absolute best in a watch you did not buy one that had the words Swiss Made on the dial. You bought one that said Hamilton on the dial. That is how it was back then.


----------



## Famousname (Jun 20, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> Destroyed it? Chrysler is not only still around, but making far better quality vehicles than it has for years. Have you seen the latest crop of Chrysler vehicles on showroom floors, or test driven them? The Daimler influence is still there. Unfortunately, the Chrysler influence was blatantly obvious too, on certain Mercedes-Benz models. Certain cheap-feeling parts and poor panel gaps on certain Mercedes-Benz models. Thankfully that was put an end to before the brand was de-valued. Daimler merged with a piece of crap car brand, doesn't matter if it was an American brand or not, and it was Chrysler that benefited.


The above is absolutely 100% exactly true. This is the way it happened, and anyone who disputes this doesn't know anything about Benzes or the about the true merger arangement back when it went down. I'm on my fourth Mercedes. I can *definitely* tell the drop in quality on my "Chrysler years" car as opposed to the true "Daimler years" one parked beside it. Thankfully, the quality is back in the showrooms, now.


----------



## Famousname (Jun 20, 2011)

Perseus said:


> Chrysler was one of the most profitable car companies prior to the Mercedes merger. Mercedes took all their cash and then split apart the companies.


^^^Haysus H. Christmas. [SMH]



Perseus said:


> I don't know of any watch that is even close to being American made ...


I think there is a guy in Pennsylvania (RGM) and a few others who would beg to differ.
​


----------



## Lencoth (Apr 29, 2008)

DLXXV said:


> I dont care that they were taken over by the Swatch group in fact this made Hamilton even stonger imo. Whats better then a Swiss made watch!


If you believe any Swiss Made watch is by definition the zenith in watchmaking, I'm sorry, that's just not true. There are extremely high quality watches made in many countries (including yours by the Grönefelds), quite a few of these are incomparably better than your average Swiss watch. The Swatch Group i.e. produces watches that I rate world class, some are Swiss like Breguet, Blancpain, Jaquet Droz, others like Glashütte Original are not Swiss. Hamilton in the Swatch hierarchy is a Middle Range brand, probably struggling to make a product that qualifies with the Swiss Made rule (i.e. > 50% value created in Switzerland, cased in Switzerland). No offense.


----------



## Scottish Steve (Sep 7, 2010)

I have read this thread with interest as this is a recurring theme on many English language forums. There is definitely a crisis of identity going on in The US. Which I can totally understand. As a Kentuckian said to me once, drunk as a skunk, working in China "We sold our country".
IMO, Hamilton is no longer an American brand, rather almost a "nostalgia brand" for many Americans and "just another" brand for many non-Americans. They are undoubtedly good value and have some great designs, but using "history" as a replacement for current manufacturing prowess is as pointless as referring to Bremont as a British Brand.
It's no longer the world many of us grew up in.


----------



## Famousname (Jun 20, 2011)

Scottish Steve said:


> As a Kentuckian said to me once...


I resemble that remark!


----------



## eisenhower (Aug 3, 2012)

johnj said:


> I just told you they use actual American Hamilton designs. They reproduce a bunch of original American Hamilton models, the most famous of which is the khaki. This is not duping anyone into falling for advertising tricks. If I want to buy a Trent, Loyd, or Ardmore, I can still buy these watches. They are the original American designs.


Cool, my fake Rolex uses an actual Swiss design...


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Scottish Steve said:


> . . . but using "history" as a replacement for current manufacturing prowess is as pointless as referring to Bremont as a British Brand.


The brothers do indeed have realistic plans of making Bremont 100% British. In every way, including movements. Will those plans ultimately hurt the brand? Possibly. Many folks still identify quality watches as either being Swiss or German made. Still, there is no American equivalent of Bremont. (And I truly wish there was.)


----------



## Scottish Steve (Sep 7, 2010)

It would be nice to see and if they do move production to The UK, I sincerely hope they continue to be successful.


----------



## pjviitas (Feb 29, 2012)

ItsMuskyTime said:


> Does it bother anyone that Hamilton bills itself as an American watch when it hasn't been made in America in over 40 years?
> 
> I really like the looks of Hamilton watches, especially the Jazzmaster series. They are very classic pieces, but I just can't get past the fact that they call themselves American when they are part of the Swatch group & haven't had anything to do with the US in nearly half a century. It just seems like false advertising, which I know it isn't thanks to some clever wording, but it does seem very misleading and kind of phony. Does this bother anyone else?


Yes it does bother me...considering the following:
-Hamilton was involved with countless improvements to mechanical watches
-They where the first company to market electric watches
-They tried to diversify their production across 3 continents
-They where one of the players in quartz watch development

I don't think anyone likes the fact that Swatch owns the name and that the company is of little resemblance to what it once was but you can't stop progress. When things die...the world keeps moving forward.

Just having a vehicle to spread the Hamilton story is more than many companies relegated to the dustbin of history could hope for.


----------



## Jade330i (Oct 13, 2010)

It didn't bother in 2012 and it still doesn't. Love the Hammy brand and style!


----------



## elconquistador (Jul 13, 2010)

Do they employ a single American outside of marketing or distribution? Probably not. 
Lot's of people in Asia though making their "Swiss" (for wtft means) made American inspired watches.


----------



## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

Hamilton claims to have American roots and styling. It doesn't claim to be American.


----------



## Kurt Behm (Mar 19, 2006)

Not in the least!


----------



## Pym (Jul 18, 2013)

Kurt Behm said:


> Not in the least!


No - not at all! <sarcasm>

This a terrific thread by the way. As I recall, when I first got my Hamilton (model number 6234) that was bought for me as a gift in 1996, I thought it was an American watch that had some of its operations both in the US and Helvetia, errr Switzerland, based on the material received - which I attach.


----------



## Mediocre (Oct 27, 2013)

I wonder if Hamilton changed their approach since this thread was created two years ago?


----------



## pjviitas (Feb 29, 2012)

I find it interesting when people make a statement referring to the nationality of a company.

Companies have been known to become national institutions with ties to government however is this what companies are about...what about the shareholders?

The Swiss watch industry survived because it is a national institution and the Swiss government would not let it fail.

The US automobile industry survived because it is a national institution and the US government would not let it fail.

The US government allowed the Hamilton Watch Company to fail...it had very little to do with the viability of their product.

Looking at the banks as another example...arguably the most national of all institution in the business world. What percentage of the banks loyalty do you believe is being held by the US government?

If the banks or the government failed do you think there would be any helping hands...and how would it be labeled...socialist....capitalist?

Like I said in one of my previous posts, we are fortunate to have a vehicle for passing on the terrific story of the HWC.


----------



## elconquistador (Jul 13, 2010)

Swiss watches survived because people bought a .... load of cheap swatches and they used that money to buy a bunch of weak brands cheap that otherwise would not exist today.

I was not suggesting government intervention for Hamilton. The Swatch group takes advantage of the heritage they purchased from the ashes of Hamilton. It comes off as cheap. Just like Miller and Bud were never as American until the Europeans purchased them.


----------



## pjviitas (Feb 29, 2012)

elconquistador said:


> Swiss watches survived because people bought a .... load of cheap swatches and they used that money to buy a bunch of weak brands cheap that otherwise would not exist today.
> 
> I was not suggesting government intervention for Hamilton. The Swatch group takes advantage of the heritage they purchased from the ashes of Hamilton. It comes off as cheap. Just like Miller and Bud were never as American until the Europeans purchased them.


Get your facts strait

In 1931, to counter the effects of the Great Depression and "maintain, improve, and develop" the Swiss watch industry, the Swiss government and the country's banks assisted in forming ASUAG - Allgemeine Schweizerische Uhrenindustrie AG. As we'll learn in a bit, this was not to be the last time the Swiss banking industry held major sway over the Swiss watch industry.
...
The economic situation (double-digit inflation and a weak dollar) in the United States, the biggest importer of Swiss timepieces at the time, did not help. Not even a 1980 bailout to the tune of $150 million from the Swiss banking industry could help SSIH.
...
In spite of their quartz efforts, both SSIH and ASUAG were ultimately too late to the dance. With a different economic and financial infrastructure than their Japanese competition, both were soon facing bankruptcy and subsequent liquidation. Competitors were circling like sharks.
...
In 1979, a banker friend asked Hayek to develop a plan for selling ASUAG and SSIH to the Japanese. Hayek was outraged. The Swiss were set to capitulate, willing to throw in the towel and let 200+ years of heritage and world leadership in watchmaking and high horology slip into history without much more than a whimper.

Instead, Hayek prepared what came to be known as the Hayek Study. In it, he made a number of recommendations for streamlining and redefining the Swiss watch industry. Chief among those recommendations was to merge ASUAG and SSIH. The banks agreed and Hayek headed the committee overseeing the merger. The two were merged into SSIH/ASUAG Holding Company in 1983. Hayek was named Chairman of the Board of the newly formed company.

Don't ever kid yourself...the Swiss government was instrumental in saving the Swiss watch industry.


----------



## Drumguy (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm not bothered by it at all. I own two Hamiltons and i'm going to get a khaki field mechanical in the very near future.


----------



## elconquistador (Jul 13, 2010)

I am not either. Most claims about their history by watchmakers are bull####. Some watches look good and are well made. I buy those.


----------

