# Black or Silver Pan Europ Chronograph??



## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

I ordered a black dial Pan Europ chronograph from Ashford.com. I prefer the silver dial but only the black version was available at the ridiculously low price of $599. Unfortunately, the watch arrived with a defect but Ashford has been awesome taking care of me and are allowing me to return it no questions asked for new replacement. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask if they would swap it for the silver dial version and they said yes but they had to confirm the retail price is the same before processing the request. Now that I have a choice I'm starting to like the black dial more than expected. So the question (that is asked all too often I know) is which dial do you prefer? Black or silver? (Photos from the internet)

















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## tritto (Jan 20, 2012)

That is a ridiculous price. Currently they're at $1167 on Ashford. You scored yourself a deal there. 


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## RTea (Jun 3, 2010)

Tough call. I'm usually not a fan of silver dials but this one looks so nice. I think it's the contrasting black tachy bezel and sub-dial rings. I have the black one incoming as well and liked the black better than the silver originally but now it's a toss up for me. The only concern is the hands might get lost a bit more on the silver dial but I haven't really heard anyone complain about that. 

Is the black dial sunburst also?


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## CabbageHead (Feb 15, 2016)

I love that silver dial! Reminds of an owl (that's a good thing, I am a bit of a birder). To me the silver dial wins here.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

tritto said:


> That is a ridiculous price. Currently they're at $1167 on Ashford. You scored yourself a deal there.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you! I had no intention of buying anything right now but I couldn't pass up this deal. From everything I've heard about this watch it is a good value at full retail!

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

RTea said:


> Tough call. I'm usually not a fan of silver dials but this one looks so nice. I think it's the contrasting black tachy bezel and sub-dial rings. I have the black one incoming as well and liked the black better than the silver originally but now it's a toss up for me. The only concern is the hands might get lost a bit more on the silver dial but I haven't really heard anyone complain about that.
> 
> Is the black dial sunburst also?


I have more black chronos already (and other black face watches) than silver so I thought given how handsome the silver version is it would bring a little variety to my collection. I also think I would much prefer the black version if the contrasting color was silver instead of white.

I left the watch locked up in my office at work. I'll check tomorrow to see if there's a sunburst pattern.

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## Kurt Behm (Mar 19, 2006)

I have both because I couldn't choose between the two. Both are
spectacular!


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Kurt Behm said:


> I have both because I couldn't choose between the two. Both are
> spectacular!


Love it! I wish I could buy both! I've been contemplating doing that with my Max Bill Chronoscope. I bought the black one but keep pining for the silver one!

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

RTea said:


> Is the black dial sunburst also?


I just found this pic. It doesn't appear to have a sunburst pattern.









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## RTea (Jun 3, 2010)

That's interesting. I looked up a bunch of pictures also and some show a sunburst pattern while others look matte. It must be subtle in the black dial and probably needs brighter light to be seen. I noticed that on the Zodiac Sea Wolf black dial as well where I had to place it at certain angles in the sun to see the pattern.


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

Silver all the way if it were me.


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## Dan byers (Mar 3, 2006)

*Silver*

Hard choice, but I like the silver more. Regards Dan


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks for all the input so far! Much appreciated! I think i'm still leaning towards the silver as well.


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## WichitaViajero (Feb 22, 2013)

I vote Silver!

It makes it even more retro imho


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

RTea said:


> That's interesting. I looked up a bunch of pictures also and some show a sunburst pattern while others look matte. It must be subtle in the black dial and probably needs brighter light to be seen. I noticed that on the Zodiac Sea Wolf black dial as well where I had to place it at certain angles in the sun to see the pattern.


It's been one of those Mondays and I just now finally had a chance to look at the dial. Although my eyes aren't the greatest it doesn't appear to have any sunburst pattern. It is a very cool looking watch though! Sure wish I could have one of each color 

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## toffee67 (Mar 18, 2016)

I vote silver. It's a great look and slightly more unique than the black (which looks good too).


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## cheapie (May 7, 2011)

Great choice regardless of the dial color. I also was not planning on buying one, but I've always loved the Pan Europ chrono, and I just couldn't walk away from that price. I love mine so far...










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## Bob Dobbs needs Slack (Oct 18, 2016)

If the silver had black subdials, I'd be all over it... but as it stands, I like the black dial version better.

The design of that watch has really grown on me in the past few weeks. I'm sad I missed the cheap pricing on this thing, I would have gladly grabbed one.


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## zoomin6 (Oct 6, 2010)

I just got the black one in today, and get the white one on Friday! I can't wait.

I immediately knew I had to get both once I stumbled on what the Pan Europ was. I didn't really plan on sharing this photo (just a quick crappy phone pic I took), only to show a friend who recommended the strap, but I immediately threw on this Di-Modell Rallye strap on, have one similar for the white dial coming in. Absolutely love this strap, going to have to get the white and red stitching versions as well!









If I had to choose one, I would go for the white version. Although, I would hate not to own the black!


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

cheapie said:


> Great choice regardless of the dial color. I also was not planning on buying one, but I've always loved the Pan Europ chrono, and I just couldn't walk away from that price. I love mine so far...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats! Looks great! Enjoy!

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

zoomin6 said:


> I just got the black one in today, and get the white one on Friday! I can't wait.
> 
> I immediately knew I had to get both once I stumbled on what the Pan Europ was. I didn't really plan on sharing this photo (just a quick crappy phone pic I took), only to show a friend who recommended the strap, but I immediately threw on this Di-Modell Rallye strap on, have one similar for the white dial coming in. Absolutely love this strap, going to have to get the white and red stitching versions as well!
> 
> ...


I sure wish I could afford both right now. I'm jealous you were able to swing both. Congrats! The Di-Modell strap looks amazing with the black dial. Enjoy and please post some pics when the second one arrives.

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

I was able to speak with Ashford today at hey agreed to replace my defective black dial watch with a silver dial version. They were very easy to work with and so far I'm very pleased with how they have handled my situation. Now it's going to take a little time for my old one to ship back and the replacement to be sent. I'm super excited to receive the silver replacement. I still can't believe what an amazing deal this watch was. I'll post pics and updates when it arrives. 


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## Butter (Apr 14, 2016)

I've had the silver version for a little while now, and I find myself thinking I'd rather have the black dial. 

The thing that tipped it was just an angle that I caught it at today. I couldn't immediately identify the time due to the white and silver hands on the silver dial. Keep in mind this is the only time I've had this problem since buying it, but every time I see photos of the black dial I think about what could have been...

I still love it and it's a great watch though, regardless of dial color! I'm still searching for the perfect strap to pair with it.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Since I had the black dial in my possession it will be interesting to see what I think after the silver one arrives. I'm pretty excited to receive it. Luckily, I don't think you can go wrong with either one. 


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

I vote silver too. I have been looking at this watch and would love to find one at that price. Great deal!


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## zoomin6 (Oct 6, 2010)

I got my silver in on Friday! Although, it has a pretty good hairline scratch 
Looks to be from the spring bar but very interesting scratch to be from a spring bar. It would have had to be intentional, or from something else. But the scratch leads to where the spring bar goes.

Idk if I should ask for an exchange for one that isn't scratched, if I'm being too OCD or what. I'm very careful with my belongings, I wouldn't mind if I made the scratch myself because it would be character that I added myself, but this may be a deal breaker for me. I might ask to have it exchanged. I couldn't get a good picture of the scratch with the phone.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

zoomin6 said:


> I got my silver in on Friday! Although, it has a pretty good hairline scratch
> Looks to be from the spring bar but very interesting scratch to be from a spring bar. It would have had to be intentional, or from something else. But the scratch leads to where the spring bar goes.
> 
> Idk if I should ask for an exchange for one that isn't scratched, if I'm being too OCD or what. I'm very careful with my belongings, I wouldn't mind if I made the scratch myself because it would be character that I added myself, but this may be a deal breaker for me. I might ask to have it exchanged. I couldn't get a good picture of the scratch with the phone.
> ...


I'm sorry your watch arrived with a scratch. It would drive me nuts whetherI caused it or not. I would exchange it. Did you get the $599 deal?

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Received an email update from Ashford. My replacement watch was shipped express today and is scheduled to arrive tomorrow! I'm super excited! It will be interesting to see how the silver dial compares to the black dial. I'll be sure to post when it arrives. 


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

It arrived today! Work was crazy so I only had enough time to wind and set it. I didn't even get a chance to take this pic until after I got home. I'll leave it in the box until my testing is done. My first impressions are favorable. In very glad I opted for the silver dial and kudos to Ashford for fantastic no hassle customer service.









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## pl39g (Nov 18, 2011)

I ordered a Silver dial on Sept 28. Found that it just was not what I expected. Called Ashford and they agreed to ship me a black dial version. Arrives tomorrow if it has no delays. Ashford was very helpful about the exchange, they even paid return shipping for the old watch and also paid to reship the new one.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

pl39g said:


> I ordered a Silver dial on Sept 28. Found that it just was not what I expected. Called Ashford and they agreed to ship me a black dial version. Arrives tomorrow if it has no delays. Ashford was very helpful about the exchange, they even paid return shipping for the old watch and also paid to reship the new one.


Wow! What great service! I'm very impressed with Ashford. I ordered a watch from another grey market company last year and when it arrived with a defect I had to push a bit to have it replaced. They did replace it in the end but my experience wasn't as smooth as it was with Ashford .

So far my silver dial is keeping good time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and can't wait to wear it!

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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

zoomin6 said:


> I got my silver in on Friday! Although, it has a pretty good hairline scratch
> Looks to be from the spring bar but very interesting scratch to be from a spring bar. It would have had to be intentional, or from something else. But the scratch leads to where the spring bar goes.
> 
> Idk if I should ask for an exchange for one that isn't scratched, if I'm being too OCD or what. I'm very careful with my belongings, I wouldn't mind if I made the scratch myself because it would be character that I added myself, but this may be a deal breaker for me. I might ask to have it exchanged. I couldn't get a good picture of the scratch with the phone.


I'd definitely ask for an exchange on that one. If it was on the inside of the lug it would be no big deal, but you'll notice a scratch on top of the case every time you look at it.


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## Kurt Behm (Mar 19, 2006)

*Yep ....*

Totally understand !


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

*Re: Yep ....*



Kurt Behm said:


> Totally understand !


Now this isn't helping my watch addiction at all!! Lol!! How would you describe the silver dial in your Max Bill? Does it lean towards a metallic look? Or does it look more like a flat white?

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Still with plastic wrap in the crystal. Keeping good time and functioning well after 60 hours. I'm thinking it's time to switch staps and start enjoying this bad boy. I ordered a Hamilton deployant clasp and this Watch Gecko Rallye strap. 

















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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

With new strap . I'm very happy I went with the silver dial.









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## KrisOK (Mar 31, 2014)

I snagged one of the Ashford $599 watches as well. I have the silver, but wish I had gotten the black version for a higher contrast between the hands and dial. Oh well, it's still a beautiful watch at an unbelievable price.

Hey guys, how is the bezel action on your watches? Mine is VERY stiff, and I'm wondering if it's common with this watch.


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## Ecesp004 (Sep 30, 2011)

Black, in my opinion is the nicest.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

KrisOK said:


> I snagged one of the Ashford $599 watches as well. I have the silver, but wish I had gotten the black version for a higher contrast between the hands and dial. Oh well, it's still a beautiful watch at an unbelievable price.
> 
> Hey guys, how is the bezel action on your watches? Mine is VERY stiff, and I'm wondering if it's common with this watch.


Was the silver version available at the discount? When I bought mine initially I was only able to buy the black one with the discount. The only way I was able to get the silver one was because I had to return the black one and they were nice enough to give me the silver one in return. So far I'm not having any trouble with the contrast on the silver version. I'm very happy with it.

The bezel is a bit stiff but has a very positive feel to it. I don't sense that it's too stiff.

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## KrisOK (Mar 31, 2014)

Yeah, actually the one that they listed when I purchased was the silver dial version. I've probably bought 20 watches from Ashford, and I've been really pleased with their customer support on the rare occasions I've had an issue. They are probably my favorite gray market seller. 

Where I noticed the contrast issue was outside on a bright day. It's not bad, I just think that the black dial would be more readable in high ambient light conditions. 

Honestly, the bezel really isn't an issue, it's just tighter than I'd expect. I never dive with a chrono, and wouldn't use a watch to time my dives anyway in this day and age. I was just wondering if they all were tight. On the plus side, like you mentioned, the bezel has a VERY positive feel with zero play.


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## charlaph (May 22, 2016)

I think the silver is a lovely looking watch and at that price it's a steal. Good to see you're enjoying it, buyers remorse is always a reality but there's nothing to regret over buying such a nice watch at that price.


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## Shaunie_007 (Feb 5, 2012)

I've had the black dial for over a month, and yes you scored yourself a serious deal as I paid a few hundred more for a pre-owned one a few months back. I was trying to decide between the two dial colors when I bought mine and I'm actually really glad I went with the black dial. It's more aesthetically pleasing to me. I also picked up an OEM hammy rally strap from the bay for $150 and I think it compliments the watch really well.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Shaunie_007 said:


> I've had the black dial for over a month, and yes you scored yourself a serious deal as I paid a few hundred more for a pre-owned one a few months back. I was trying to decide between the two dial colors when I bought mine and I'm actually really glad I went with the black dial. It's more aesthetically pleasing to me. I also picked up an OEM hammy rally strap from the bay for $150 and I think it compliments the watch really well.
> 
> View attachment 9856290


There's no denying that both versions are great! I am very happy with my choice but I'm sure I might feel differently about it if I didn't already have 4 black chronos!

The OEM rally looks great on your watch! I like it better than the stock strap (which really isn't too bad either). Good pickup.


















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## Shaunie_007 (Feb 5, 2012)

That Watch Gecko rally really looks the part on your watch buddy, congrats on the pick up! Enjoy


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Shaunie_007 said:


> That Watch Gecko rally really looks the part on your watch buddy, congrats on the pick up! Enjoy


Thanks for your kind words, Shaunie_007! I'm really impressed with this strap. It's my first Watch Gecko strap and it's definitely not going to be the last.

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## vese (Nov 27, 2014)

The silver looks great in some pictures and bland in others. Tough call.


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## ccpeabody (May 3, 2008)

I would have to go with black.

I like the silver, but there seems to be a balance to the black face that the silver doesn't convey.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

ccpeabody said:


> I would have to go with black.
> 
> I like the silver, but there seems to be a balance to the black face that the silver doesn't convey.


I sort of felt the opposite was true... I think the white portions of the black dial would have been nicer looking in sliver. The white seemed a bit to harsh against the black and I felt that it took something away from the overall appearance. But I'm really just nitpicking now. Truth of the matter is after having seen both in person it truly comes down to personal preference. They're both stunning and I would be happy with either.

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## Chrono_Man (Jul 19, 2013)

JonS1967 said:


> I sort of felt the opposite was true... I think the white portions of the black dial would have been nicer looking in sliver. The white seemed a bit to harsh against the black and I felt that it took something away from the overall appearance. But I'm really just nitpicking now. Truth of the matter is after having seen both in person it truly comes down to personal preference. They're both stunning and I would be happy with either.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I felt the same way between the two models and at the end of it chose the Silver dial version simply because I felt the sunburst dial really popped with the same effect as the subdials. I actually put it on the same OEM Hammy strap with push button deployant buckle as Shaunie_007 and it looks fantastic, and is also very comfortable. The price wasn't horrible either...


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## Shaunie_007 (Feb 5, 2012)

Chrono_Man said:


> I felt the same way between the two models and at the end of it chose the Silver dial version simply because I felt the sunburst dial really popped with the same effect as the subdials. I actually put it on the same OEM Hammy strap with push button deployant buckle as Shaunie_007 and it looks fantastic, and is also very comfortable. The price wasn't horrible either...


I'd love to see a photo of that, if you get a chance please share!


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## mali (Jun 9, 2016)

The black one may be a lilttle more serious. I´d go for the silver.

Anyway, I have the non chrono blue dial. Gorgeous.


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

I'm biased as I have the black...










I would own this watch if I could own any watch.

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

I think the fact that I already own these black dial Chronographs also weighed in on my decision. 









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## Shaunie_007 (Feb 5, 2012)

mitchjrj said:


> I'm biased as I have the black...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great shot Mitch!


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## Chrono_Man (Jul 19, 2013)

Go silver, the sunburst dial on the silver model is amazing. This watch definitely punches above its weight


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

I ordered the silver from Ashford on Friday, can't wait til it arrives. 
The silver is definitely a winner from me, not a fan of the white chapter ring on the black.
Fingers crossed for no issues as i'm UK based returning it would be a pita.

Chris


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

chirs1211 said:


> I ordered the silver from Ashford on Friday, can't wait til it arrives.
> The silver is definitely a winner from me, not a fan of the white chapter ring on the black.
> Fingers crossed for no issues as i'm UK based returning it would be a pita.
> 
> Chris


Congratulations, Chris! $599 is an insane price for this watch! I agree with you about the white chapter ring. I think a silver chapter ring would make the black dial version far more appealing.

Cheers,
Jon

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## carlhicks (May 21, 2016)

I prefer the black one.Looks very nice.


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

Black ones are on sale now @ $599 from Ashford

Chris


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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

I just looked at all of your pics and comments as to why one or the other and its going to be an in person decision for me. I got the silver dial chrono for $394 because ashford graciously honored the promo code that worked on it plus the befrugal cash back, Amex offer, and Amex card cash back. I told my girlfriend no way this gets shipped and when it did she asked to buy it for me for my birthday which was Saturday. I ordered the black as well today so I can decide in person which dial I like more. Thank you for all of the pictures you guys posted!


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Mechanicalworld90 said:


> I just looked at all of your pics and comments as to why one or the other and its going to be an in person decision for me. I got the silver dial chrono for $394 because ashford graciously honored the promo code that worked on it plus the befrugal cash back, Amex offer, and Amex card cash back. I told my girlfriend no way this gets shipped and when it did she asked to buy it for me for my birthday which was Saturday. I ordered the black as well today so I can decide in person which dial I like more. Thank you for all of the pictures you guys posted!


$394! Wow!!! Happy birthday. I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on both dials.

Cheers,
Jon

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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

JonS1967 said:


> $394! Wow!!! Happy birthday. I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on both dials.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jon
> ...


Thank you, Jon! I still can't believe the price I got, I just keep smiling every time I think about it. It was $479.20 at checkout and the AMEX $50 credit showed up same night. It wouldn't have happened without the heads up from the guys in the bargain thread. I just recently got an alpiner 4 GMT and it is the silver sunburst dial so I think I'll ultimately go black dial on this one. I really like the idea of the black and red OEM rally strap for the chrono. I'll have to look into one of those down the road a bit with a deployant clasp. If the blue dial chrono wasn't an LE I think they would sell even more of these watches. The blue is my favorite.


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## Baenggu (Jan 11, 2015)

Wondering if people that change straps use the curved springbars or straight? 
Got to wait a few more weeks yet for mine to arrive but would like to put a Di-Modell Rallye on. 
Can I use that strap with straight springbars or should I change to the curved ones?


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Keep both


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Baenggu said:


> Wondering if people that change straps use the curved springbars or straight?
> Got to wait a few more weeks yet for mine to arrive but would like to put a Di-Modell Rallye on.
> Can I use that strap with straight springbars or should I change to the curved ones?


I used the curved spring bars that come with the watch.

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## KrisOK (Mar 31, 2014)

Mine is growing on me, but I STILL wish that I had gotten the black dial.


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## Baenggu (Jan 11, 2015)

Thanks @*JonS1967* I will try the curved bars once I get the watch.


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## DarrinNYC77 (Jul 30, 2016)

I like the silver in THIS piece. The sort of retro vibe of the watch is well-suited to silver. Both look GREAT though!!!


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

Mine arrived this morning, it's a stunning piece 
Apologies for the pics with the sticker still attached.
Only gripe was the strap isn't my taste at all, currently on a Watch Gecko leather 2-piece zulu but i have something else incoming 

Also absolutely no issues with chrono reset 












































Chris


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

chirs1211 said:


> Mine arrived this morning, it's a stunning piece
> Apologies for the pics with the sticker still attached.
> Only gripe was the strap isn't my taste at all, currently on a Watch Gecko leather 2-piece zulu but i have something else incoming
> 
> ...


Congratulations! It looks great!

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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

Thank you sir  
Shame about the strap though i expected better on a piece at this price.
Anyway currently on one of these 
https://www.watchgecko.com/prototype-zuludiver-2-piece-nato-brushed.php
and looks pretty good to be honest.
Though i did order this a few days ago 
StrapsCo Extra Long Vintage Faded Distressed Hand Stitched Watch Band Strap | eBay

Chris


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## hyperchord24 (Sep 2, 2016)

I just bought the silver dial. Quick story: I bought the Pan Europ day / date. I fell in love immediately. Later on, I went looking for my first chrono. Loved the look of vintage but was deathly afraid of inheriting a problem, all the while I knew the Pan Europ had a chrono version, black dial. I dismissed it at 45 mm, too big for my wrist. I had no idea they had a silver dial version. I saw that about a week ago and I knew that was my watch. Everything about it reminds me of an Autiva or some other chrono from the 70s, I use dive bezels everyday and I get to see the chrono at work on the back. 

That strap feels very cheap, though. It's a shame since the straps you get for the day/date are very well made. I know it matches the shine on the bezel, this is a sports watch, there shouldn't be a shiny strap.


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## hamsterdams (Aug 21, 2015)

My silver came in today. Lovin it, although it's my biggest watch so it will take some getting used to.

What do you guys say? Not too big? Wrists are 7.









Sorry pic came out wrongside up. I'd also like to point out that it didn't come with a manual from Ashford, which would have came in handy since this is my first chrono. Oh well, for $599 can't complain much!

Edit: Whew, that potato quality pic tho.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Congratulations to both of you! I've said it before and I'll say it again, $599 is a ridiculous price for this watch! 


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## hamsterdams (Aug 21, 2015)

JonS1967 said:


> Congratulations to both of you! I've said it before and I'll say it again, $599 is a ridiculous price for this watch!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Question: Does your crown make little clicky noises when you're unscrewing and screwing it?


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## dbrando (Sep 2, 2016)

I like the silver. Looks a bit cleaner to me. The contrast is a bit too stark, for me, on the black one.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

hamsterdams said:


> Question: Does your crown make little clicky noises when you're unscrewing and screwing it?


The sound I hear is the same (in either direction) as when you are turning the crown to wind the watch.

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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

I got the black dial version in the mail today. It's amazing, I have liked this watch for some time now and when I got the silver dial first I wasn't sure it was the watch for me anymore. After seeing the black version in person my fears were wiped away, it's an awesome piece.

question: my chronograph hand is slightly off of the 12 o'clock position. It's off by a hair. I can live with it if need be, as the watch works as it should. Is there a way to adjust the chronograph hand? The manual I got from ashford is for a Hamilton quartz chrono.

Here is a picture of the watch wih with my Black Friday finds.


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## dart1214 (Dec 19, 2014)

Mechanicalworld said:


> question: my chronograph hand is slightly off of the 12 o'clock position. It's off by a hair.


There's no way to adjust like a quartz chrono.

I had the same issue with the exact Pan Europ Chrono that I bought from Ashford in August. The chrono seconds hand was first just slightly off center. Unfortunately, my chrono seconds hand began to drift to the right of 12 over time, to the point where it would reset visibly off center.

I sent it in for warranty with Ashford after the return period, and they could not fix the issue to my satisfaction. Ashford ultimately provided a refund.

I mention this because my Pan Europ initially was negligibly off center, and I decided to keep it since I didn't think the misalignment was that significant. It later became significant.

My advice would be to stress test it by maybe running the chrono several times to make sure it doesn't exhibit the same drifting issue as the one I had.

It otherwise was a great watch. I write this so that you can avoid the issues that I had. I hope yours is fine, as it's a great watch.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Mechanicalworld said:


> question: my chronograph hand is slightly off of the 12 o'clock position. It's off by a hair. I can live with it if need be, as the watch works as it should. Is there a way to adjust the chronograph hand? The manual I got from ashford is for a Hamilton
> View attachment 10117714


I also had the same issue (which ultimately prompted me to write this thread). As painful as it is to do, I recommend sending it back for a replacement. Ashford was a pleasure to deal with given the situation. My replacement works perfectly and I'm glad I waited. 
Good luck with your decision!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MATT1076 (Jul 26, 2012)

Received mine yesterday. Very happy with it apart from the strap which I've changed.


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## awkmyers (Oct 17, 2015)

^ nice...strap looks good IMO


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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

I'll send it in then. I don't want to deal with a warranty claim. Hopefully it won't be a problem for them to swap it out. Thank you guys for taking the time to respond to my post!


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Mechanicalworld said:


> I'll send it in then. I don't want to deal with a warranty claim. Hopefully it won't be a problem for them to swap it out. Thank you guys for taking the time to respond to my post!


I agree. A replacement is much better then a warranty repair. Good luck!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

After testing it out a bit more it reset left of the 12 position about a second. It was originally half a second to the right. Looks like it's headed back!


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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

I guess my next question would be if I get one that is perfectly centered, do I just spend a few days testing the chrono function before wearing it? How likely is this to happen over time anyways with one of these? Great looking watch, shame I have to send it back. Thanks for the help guys! Saved me a headache down the road.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Mechanicalworld said:


> I guess my next question would be if I get one that is perfectly centered, do I just spend a few days testing the chrono function before wearing it? How likely is this to happen over time anyways with one of these? Great looking watch, shame I have to send it back. Thanks for the help guys! Saved me a headache down the road.


I had the same problem when I receive my first one. The chrono hand reset to one second at first. Then it started resetting to around two seconds. When I received the replacement it worked just fine.

I always test my watches for the duration of the power reserve before wearing them in case there is a problem. The first one was defective right away so I didn't bother testing it, I just returned it. When the second one arrived I tested it for the power reserve period and I tested the chronograph during that time as well. Once I knew everything was functioning I began wearing it. It has been a trouble-free and wonderful watch!

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## Kluver (Apr 18, 2016)

I just received my black version 2 days ago. Keeping time well so far. 

Played with the chrono for awhile, resets just fine. Let it run for awhile, 5mins, 10mins, always resets to normal. 


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

Got the new shoes for the Hammy pretty pleased with it, not everyone's cuppa tea but i like it 







































Chris


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

chirs1211 said:


> Got the new shoes for the Hammy pretty pleased with it, not everyone's cuppa tea but i like it
> 
> View attachment 10166466
> View attachment 10166474
> ...


Looks great, Chris! Nice choice!!

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## FunkyELF (Jul 17, 2012)

JonS1967 said:


> Unfortunately, the watch arrived with a defect but Ashford has been awesome taking care of me and are allowing me to return it no questions asked for new replacement.


I just ordered the white one for $599 ... Care to mention what the defect was?
I wish the black one was on sale when I saw the price... Only the white one was.
Watching this video made me pull the trigger. I'm not sure I like it better than the black but the review made me happy about ordering it.






Thanks,
~Eric


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## FunkyELF (Jul 17, 2012)

Mechanicalworld said:


> I got the silver dial chrono for $394 because ashford graciously honored the promo code


 What promo code is this? Is it still active?


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

FunkyELF said:


> I just ordered the white one for $599 ... Care to mention what the defect was?
> I wish the black one was on sale when I saw the price... Only the white one was.
> Watching this video made me pull the trigger. I'm not sure I like it better than the black but the review made me happy about ordering it.
> 
> ...


Hi Eric,
I'm sorry I didn't see your question about the defect until just now. The chrono hand wouldn't reset to zero. Initially it reset to one second and the to two seconds.

My replacement has been flawless. Congratulations on ordering your watch! It's really an amazing deal!

Cheers,
Jon

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

The black one is $599 right now. 


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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

FunkyELF said:


> What promo code is this? Is it still active?


It was EBSAVE20 that was not supposed to work on the Black Friday sales, but the site had a glitch and it worked for a few hours before they turned off the code so I was one of the lucky ones.

If you have an AMEX card check the current offers for the $50 off $200 credit at ashford. I have a blue cash rewards card so that got me another $5 cash back in addition to the befrugal 6.3%.


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## Mechanicalworld (Feb 21, 2016)

chirs1211 said:


> Got the new shoes for the Hammy pretty pleased with it, not everyone's cuppa tea but i like it
> 
> Chris


Hey Chris, where is your strap from? I like the look of that strap on this watch.


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

Hi, thanks its a strapsco strap i got off ebay, i'm not really into dressy straps so i though this would suit themore casual & vintage vibe quite well 

StrapsCo Extra Long Vintage Faded Distressed Hand Stitched Watch Band Strap | eBay

I bought the extra long but comes in standard length as well

StrapsCo Vintage Faded Distressed Hand Stitched Watch Band Strap | eBay

They have a version with white stitching as well

StrapsCo Vintage Faded Distressed Hand Stitched Watch Band Strap | eBay

Chris


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

Just ordered a silver. They are on sale plus the EBSAVE20 works on top. $589.00. Couldn't resist. I was looking for a large vintage style chrono with a silver or light metal dial.

I hope customs fees don't destroy me.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

ToXic said:


> Just ordered a silver. They are on sale plus the EBSAVE20 works on top. $589.00. Couldn't resist. I was looking for a large vintage style chrono with a silver or light metal dial.


Nice! Congratulations! It's really a great watch. I love mine. Please post pics and your impressions after it arrives. 
Cheers,
Jon

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## hamsterdams (Aug 21, 2015)

So I've been wanting to exchange my silver dial for a black dial but with all the holiday hours I didn't have a chance to contact Ashford.

I finally talked to someone yesterday and asked about the exchange after explaining all the sales etc the past couple weeks. Response I got was "we can't do an exchange, that's a thousand dollar watch." Really?

So I hung up and called again, got someone else, and they were able to do the exchange without hesitation.

Funny how CS and call centers work sometimes.


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

JonS1967 said:


> Nice! Congratulations! It's really a great watch. I love mine. Please post pics and your impressions after it arrives.
> Cheers,
> Jon
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, with the free Canada bound shipping, it's being delivered tomorrow before noon! Damn.

My rally strap won't be here until next week. Guess I'll have to deal with the original one for the time being. Or perhaps I'll test the power reserve.


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

Well crap. Customs is holding it. They better not damage it.


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## hectord (Mar 5, 2014)

Hello.
Black has been my favorite watch for a long time but I just bought silver for $ 589. Anyway I don't rule out buying black some day especially at a price as attractive as the one I just paid.


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## tpb234 (Dec 31, 2016)

I live in England, and have just bought a black dial from Ashford, I had the same silver/black decision to make. I would have loved them to reproduce the blue face, but after much soul searching (and premium watch owning friend asking) I plumped for the black.
I paid $599 (£480) and had to pay approx $120 duty/customs/tax. (still a great deal!!)
The chrono version is unavailable in Hamilton watch retailers in the UK, and the non-chrono Pan Europ sells for approx $1100.
My chrono buttons seem a little stiff to press, is this usual? also my crown is clicky in operation, but this seems normal.
Loving the watch, the only disappointment is the strap is not deployment.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

tpb234 said:


> I live in England, and have just bought a black dial from Ashford, I had the same silver/black decision to make. I would have loved them to reproduce the blue face, but after much soul searching (and premium watch owning friend asking) I plumped for the black.
> I paid $599 (£480) and had to pay approx $120 duty/customs/tax. (still a great deal!!)
> The chrono version is unavailable in Hamilton watch retailers in the UK, and the non-chrono Pan Europ sells for approx $1100.
> My chrono buttons seem a little stiff to press, is this usual? also my crown is clicky in operation, but this seems normal.
> Loving the watch, the only disappointment is the strap is not deployment.


Congratulations! Yes, the bezel should click when you turn it. The Chrono pusher shouldn't be too difficult to push but there should be some resistance.

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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

ToXic said:


> Well crap. Customs is holding it. They better not damage it.


Bummer. There's nothing worse than having to wait when you're expecting something special to arrive. I hope you're able to take possession soon! It will be well worth the wait.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kluver (Apr 18, 2016)

Well I traded away my black version Pan Europ. Really debating on buying the silver. Not sure if I should as it did wear a bit big for me. 

Decisions decisions. Lol


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

JonS1967 said:


> Bummer. There's nothing worse than having to wait when you're expecting something special to arrive. I hope you're able to take possession soon! It will be well worth the wait.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They released it like an hour before UPS closed for the day. Which made my UPS status change back to "on time", was kinda funny.

Will be delivered Tuesday. Is Monday a postal holiday or something? I'm expecting another watch Tuesday as well.


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

Are there any good threads for straps for these. I am not a fan of alligator anything (which is what comes on the watch).


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## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

A little off topic but I landed a new Pan Europe Chronograph and found the Chronograph seconds hand resets to just a little off centre.








Everything is otherwise good and it keeps time within spec.

Is this an easy fix?

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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

Apparently, from what i've read, it's not an simple fix for the average person, may be easy for a watch repairers i'm not sure. 
But it will likely get worse over time, ie second hand will reset further and further away from 12 o'clock.
So, if it's new i'd return it for a replacement.

Chris


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

tpb234 said:


> I live in England, and have just bought a black dial from Ashford, I had the same silver/black decision to make. I would have loved them to reproduce the blue face, but after much soul searching (and premium watch owning friend asking) I plumped for the black.
> I paid $599 (£480) and had to pay approx $120 duty/customs/tax. (still a great deal!!)
> The chrono version is unavailable in Hamilton watch retailers in the UK, and the non-chrono Pan Europ sells for approx $1100.
> My chrono buttons seem a little stiff to press, is this usual? also my crown is clicky in operation, but this seems normal.
> Loving the watch, the only disappointment is the strap is not deployment.


There are 1 or 2 UK retailers selling the chrono Jurawatches for one but @ £1380 !!! Amazon for £1200 
Just makes what we paid from Ashfords, despite customs and VAT, still a bargain 

Jurawatches does sell the deployment clasp seperately as well for £35 
https://www.jurawatches.co.uk/colle...mm-stainless-steel-butterfly-deployment-clasp

Chris


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## tpb234 (Dec 31, 2016)

Hi Chris, I went into a couple of high street Hamilton stockists and they had not heard of the Pan Europ Chrono, and they showed me their corporate tablets with their available watch range and it was not listed.
I then googled it on my phone and showed them, but they showed no interest in trying to source one (I wanted to see it in the flesh first).
Thanks for strap info, and yes, a great bargain - the strap is softening up nicely!


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Amazon had the silver dial chrono on Lightning Deal last week for around $525US and I thought long and hard but decided to pass on it for several reasons. 

Already had a 7750 chrono Victorinox at $359 over Black Friday weekend that is flawless. 

Hamilton quality is suspect as we see confirmed above^^. It is a pretty looking watch.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

The more I wear this watch the more I like it. I'm very impressed with it.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

tpb234 said:


> Hi Chris, I went into a couple of high street Hamilton stockists and they had not heard of the Pan Europ Chrono, and they showed me their corporate tablets with their available watch range and it was not listed.
> I then googled it on my phone and showed them, but they showed no interest in trying to source one (I wanted to see it in the flesh first).
> Thanks for strap info, and yes, a great bargain - the strap is softening up nicely!


It does look like its just Jura and Amazon that have them here, just makes it even more exclusive for us UK guys 
I swapped the strap straight away, croc really isn't my style at all, temped by the deployment clasp though 

Chris


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

My silver dial arrived today! Unfortunately my rally strap hasn't come yet... The factory strap is absolutely horrific. Bin it ASAP. It also weirdly made the watch feel small.

I put it on a NATO for now (which I picked up at Fossil, for $4!), which I must admit is quite hansom!

Pictures on my 20.5cm wrist:


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

As someone who normally wears 40-42mm on a 7" wrist... should I be worried about this things size?


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## Archi888 (Sep 27, 2014)

No, It feels like 42 watch indeed.


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

Yup, I think because the dial itself is so small. 

Huh... Mine stopped last night... Bit concerned. Gave it a full hand wind and left it face up on the table to see if it stops today.


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks for the sizing feedback. It seems like the things to check for these are:
- hand alignment
- reserve
- crown feel
- pusher feedback


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

Well, it appears mine is defective. Nice. Stops at the same time every night, and will come, back to life if I depress a chrono pusher. 

Some reading indicates it may be a damaged hour wheel.

I've sent Ashford an email. They better be sending me a new one ASAP, this is unacceptable.


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

Where did it come from?


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Bummer. I wonder why so many are defective. 


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

Hamilton quality control seems to be absolute crap.



thebuzz said:


> Where did it come from?


Ashford. Hence why I mentioned them.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

ToXic said:


> Ashford. Hence why I mentioned them.


The good news is that they are good at replacing defective products.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

Sorry, I missed the Ashford bit on my phone. It seems like there have been a lot of duds coming out of Ashford. I guess we'll just see how it goes. 


On topic... 

I went with silver because I like the balance of contrast (although I am worried about legibility), I don't have a silver piece and it seems to be a bit less common.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

thebuzz said:


> On topic...
> 
> I went with silver because I like the balance of contrast (although I am worried about legibility), I don't have a silver piece and it seems to be a bit less common.


In the final analysis I would say that the silver dial is less legible than the black dial (anyone who has both please share your thoughts with us) but I haven't found it to be an issue. I'm so taken with my silver watch that I would gladly give up a bit of legibility for its stunning appearance.

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## hectord (Mar 5, 2014)

Many detective watches. Mine is coming next week and I'm afraid for it.

@Khakihamilton


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

hectord said:


> Many detective watches. Mine is coming next week and I'm afraid for it.
> 
> @Khakihamilton


The good news is that they'll make good on the watch. So if you consider it a cost of doing business if you have to exchange it and I'm sure it's still an amazing value at $599 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

I ordered mine on over a week ago from ashford and it still hasn't shipped.


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

thebuzz said:


> I ordered mine on over a week ago from ashford and it still hasn't shipped.


Contact them. Mine shipped same day and arrived in my city the next day (though customs held it for a few days... Those pricks damaged the watch box, probably the reason it's acting weird too).


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

I tried. They said it processed. So, I should just wait. Meanwhile, UPS says they haven't received anything. So... I guessing it's "lost" but no one wants to be stuck holding the bag.


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

Huh. Mine is functioning properly again. I'll chalk it up to a brand new movement breaking in a bit. Coolio. Wearing it today. It really has great wrist presence, and I'm loving it on the NATO.


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## ToXic (Apr 26, 2011)

My Rally arrived. Not sure if I like it or the NATO more.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

Glad it's working! I'm enjoying mine right now as well 









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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

Enjoying mine as well.

I did not enjoy working with the curved spring bars though.










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## prskier17 (Dec 4, 2015)

I just received mine yesterday and it is stunning! I love it!


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

prskier17 said:


> I just received mine yesterday and it is stunning! I love it!
> 
> View attachment 10437194


Congratulations!

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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

I can't believe how tight the gap on this thing is between the spring bars and the case. A few of the nato's and other straps i've tried wont fit.


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## prskier17 (Dec 4, 2015)

thebuzz said:


> I can't believe how tight the gap on this thing is between the spring bars and the case. A few of the nato's and other straps i've tried wont fit.


I agree, I really with this watch was more "strap friendly" like my X-Wind. Even so, I absolutely love it!


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

I fitted spring bars with more of a curve, adds a little extra space 

Chris


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

You mind posting a photo of what's working? I was thinking about bending a few


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## playinwittime (Feb 22, 2015)

I also bought both because they are both spectacular for the price. The first one was the black dial and it came defective from Ashford. I had Swatch Group service repair it because it was too important for me to have Ashford do it. The silver dial version was perfect.


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## Genco (Jan 3, 2017)

I am generally a black dial guy, but this silver is incredible. Stick with the silver.


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## hectord (Mar 5, 2014)

Mine is already here and it looks perfect. It cost with taxes and tariffs 655 € which is very good.

@Khakihamilton


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## hectord (Mar 5, 2014)

A photo.








@Khakihamilton


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## thebuzz (Jan 11, 2014)

Considering the size... this thing has actually ended up being pretty darn wearable.










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## LEOZ (Jun 7, 2016)

How is the bezel action on yours (other than being stiff)? Do you have any play in it? I love mine but the bezel rotates (very slightly) clockwise direction when I turn (like half a minute distance to right..or maybe even less). I am probably being too picky and OCD here but would love to hear some feedback from other users


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

That sound exactly like mine, it has very slight back play when rotating but it's pretty secure once it's set, it doesn't bother me too much though 


Chris


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## LEOZ (Jun 7, 2016)

chirs1211 said:


> That sound exactly like mine, it has very slight back play when rotating but it's pretty secure once it's set, it doesn't bother me too much though
> 
> Chris


Thank you for the reply, much appreciated. I guess it is a common issue (as minor as it may be) with this model...I as thinking about contacting the seller but looks like it comes from the factory this so I won't bother.


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## Scott S (Jan 29, 2013)

Guys, I stumbled across an ad for the Pan Euro Chrono a few days ago and was intrigued. I searched up some past sales here on WUS and then found this thread and it seems that the current Ashford price is very close to the best used prices. All of the defective watches on this thread (read it all) kind of gives me pause though. Is the Hamilton brand really that flaky? or does Ashford somehow get "seconds" or NOS that dealers kick to them that have a higher percentage of problems? I remember many years ago when Ashford had a storefront in my city, but I've never bought from them before. Do you get factory warranty or just their's? I'm jonesing for the Pan Euro but a bit leery from reading this thread. I'm not patient dealing with problem products. Any insights?


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## zawistow (Dec 21, 2016)

Pan europ from Ashford came with Ashford guarantee only. Factory guarantee card wasn't filled. 
My silver pan europ chrono has no defects and runs abt +6/+10 s per day.


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## Scott S (Jan 29, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback.


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## JonS1967 (Jan 2, 2013)

I had one arrive defective but they took care of it (hassle free) for me. It created a delayed gratification situation but it was well worth it in the end. I have a beautiful watch at a major savings. In order to make sure you get a hasslefree return if you do have a problem, I highly recommend testing the watch for at least the time period of the power reserve before you wear it. Once you're sure everything runs properly, then it's safe to put it on. If you wear it before that, they may give you a hassle if you need to return it. Good luck!









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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

Love the silver dial. Waiting for the $599 price again..


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## Archi888 (Sep 27, 2014)

My vote is for black very versatile dial:


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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

Just bought Silver- can't go wrong with either. Just have too many black watches already. Silver to me pops a a little more in a subtle way. Gonna have a custom made black with red stitching strap made. 


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## tommk (Nov 4, 2016)

Got the silver on black with red stitching.










It pops more, but it's harder to read if the light conditions aren't ideal (but similar to you I got too many black dial ones).


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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

tommk said:


> Got the silver on black with red stitching.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which strap is that?

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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

You gotta have red in the strap i think 
Mine makes it a bit more vintage looking.






























Chris


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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

chirs1211 said:


> You gotta have red in the strap i think
> Mine makes it a bit more vintage looking.
> 
> View attachment 11084562
> ...


Chris,
Where did you get this strap?

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## tommk (Nov 4, 2016)

scottconn170 said:


> Which strap is that?


I think it was Watch Gecko's Black Leather Perforated Racing Strap

(Sorry, can't seem to post links)


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

scottconn170 said:


> Chris,
> Where did you get this strap?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's a Strapsco vintage, can be found on their website and ebay around £17

Chris


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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

Thanks!!


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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

Here's the link, they seem to only have the extra long in stock at the moment, which is the one i have on my 7.75in wrist 

StrapsCo Extra Long Vintage Faded Distressed Hand Stitched Watch Band Strap | eBay

Chris


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

I have a HELLUVA time with other straps on the PE Chrono. Just can't get them to fit as the gap between the strap and case is so narrow. And I'm no stranger to changing straps. 


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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

My silver Pan Europ on black and red Nato









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## chirs1211 (Sep 29, 2009)

mitchjrj said:


> I have a HELLUVA time with other straps on the PE Chrono. Just can't get them to fit as the gap between the strap and case is so narrow. And I'm no stranger to changing straps.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I swapped the original slightly curved bars for ones with more curve 

5 x CURVED SPRINGBARS S/S T/BARS 22mm x1.78mm X 0.8MM ENDS SHIP W/W. | eBay

Won't let you fit thick straps but does eliminate the rubbing

Chris


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

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