# Real talk: is Jomashop selling fakes?



## lecorbeau (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, nor am I wild about rocking the boat. I love a good deal like anyone else and I'm always eager to give people the benefit of the doubt. However, I recently made yet another purchase from Jomashop that I strongly suspect to be fake and will be returning at once. I have owned this piece in the past and I'm confident the one I'm holding does _not at all_ have the same feel or build quality.

This is not the first time. Some years ago I bought a Tissot from Joma that had a dial with uneven numbers and a "SWISS MADE" that looked like it had been painted in a rush. At the time I forgave what I assumed to be a rare lapse in quality control, but now I suspect something more systemic, or worse, a little sinister.

What is going on here? Is it time we grapple with the possibility that Joma's prices are _that_ good because they sell replicas? Or am I just going mad? Looking forward to your thoughts.


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## soaking.fused (May 3, 2012)




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## fakegoldwatch (Jun 13, 2017)

I bought my certina through Jomashops ebay page with no problems it came with original papers and box all good

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## doggbiter (Oct 31, 2010)

We are certainly not in any position to evaluate your mental condition, but if you take the watch to a reliable source to have it authenticated, that may answer your question and possibly prevent you from going online in the future and slandering a company based solely on a gut feeling...


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## boossard (Aug 22, 2017)

lecorbeau said:


> I'm not one for conspiracy theories, nor am I wild about rocking the boat.


doubtful.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JodyH (Apr 12, 2016)

lecorbeau said:


> Some years ago I bought a Tissot from Joma that had a dial with uneven numbers and a "SWISS MADE" that looked like it had been painted in a rush.


Sounds like standard Tissot quality to me...


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

This is post 11.111 on Jomashop. There‘s a 50/50 weighting if they are good or bad.
But one thing is for sure, they do not see [email protected] If you suspect it to be a fake watch sent it to the manufacturer. They or any AD will happy to assist you.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

My son's hamster sometimes runs so fast on it's spinning wheel that it flies off--were it similarly possible for original posters of threads like these.


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## Abacab (Oct 7, 2017)

lecorbeau said:


> ...Or am I just going mad?


|>


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## lecorbeau (Apr 25, 2013)

timefleas said:


> My son's hamster sometimes runs so fast on it's spinning wheel that it flies off--were it similarly possible for original posters of threads like these.


I appreciate my observations are not popular, but I duly qualified my suspicions and made no ad hominem attacks on anyone. Grateful if you could afford me the same courtesy.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Well, ad hominem tu quoque isn‘t any better. And the title you chose for is an inappropriate attack. Please come back if you got proof on what you are maintaining.


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## lecorbeau (Apr 25, 2013)

stuffler said:


> Well, ad hominem tu quoque isn't any better. And the title you chose for is an inappropriate attack. Please come back if you got proof on what you are maintaining.


Please feel free to delete the thread, then, if you think appropriate. Thanks.


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## Pheeelco (Jun 30, 2016)

I think it would be best to take the piece to an AD. Eliminate your uncertainty. Jomashop are a high-profile seller with a huge turnover - they would have a lot to lose if they are selling replicas. Manufacturers take this VERY seriously indeed and would pursue action against them ruthlessly (most probably). The higher-end the brand, the more brutal the response, I would think.

Obviously it is possible that you have a fake on your hands - or it could be a defective product that slipped past QC.

Either way, an AD should be your first pit-stop, I think.

I hope that this gets resolved to your satisfaction, mate. 

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

lecorbeau said:


> I appreciate my observations are not popular, but I duly qualified my suspicions and made no ad hominem attacks on anyone. Grateful if you could afford me the same courtesy.


Support innuendo and implication with incontrovertible evidence, and I, and the rest of the folks that you neglected to mention, above, would be happen to.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

lecorbeau said:


> Please feel free to delete the thread, then, if you think appropriate. Thanks.


I do not think the thread is inappropriate since you got an issue. However, your wording is.


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## lecorbeau (Apr 25, 2013)

timefleas said:


> Support innuendo and implication with incontrovertible evidence, and I, and the rest of the folks that you neglected to mention, above, would be happen to.


It is entirely reasonable to challenge my suspicions, but unwarranted to attack me personally. I will not engage with you anymore on this.


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## Skeptical (Sep 14, 2012)

Quite agree with what others have said. If an AD verifies a fake, I’ll start listening. Otherwise, give me a break. For full disclosure I have purchased several watches from Joma, including an Omega SMP co-axial. Definitely no fakes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hidden by leaves (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm waiting for the "real talk" part from the OP :roll:

Baseless threads like this should be deleted or renamed. They border on libel and will show up on google/site searches forever.


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## Abacab (Oct 7, 2017)

lecorbeau said:


> I appreciate my observations are not popular, but I duly qualified my suspicions and made no ad hominem attacks on anyone. Grateful if you could afford me the same courtesy.


You basically accused a business of committing fraud without a shred of real evidence. You put it on-line for the world to see, and for the uninitiated to believe. With your troll tactics you were hoping to dredge up some sort of sympathy for your ridiculous premise. This is not uncommon for the Internet, but it is the grossest form of irresponsible behavior. Now you are looking for courtesy? Dude, please!

Don't worry, you are not alone by a long shot. A few days back someone posted a thread saying that he won't buy an Omega Speedmaster because the moon landings were staged. You are in sad but interesting company.


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## JodyH (Apr 12, 2016)

lecorbeau said:


> I will not engage with you anymore on this.


Promise?


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

At the least macro shots of the watch in question, so that we have a basis for evaluating the veracity of your claims.


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## vndnguyen (Sep 24, 2017)

For such type of post, you need provide some evidences, e.g: watch model, proof of purchase, some close-up pictures for investigation...


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## EnderW (Mar 16, 2015)

lecorbeau said:


> I'm not one for conspiracy theories, nor am I wild about rocking the boat. I love a good deal like anyone else and I'm always eager to give people the benefit of the doubt. However, I recently made yet another purchase from Jomashop that I strongly suspect to be fake and will be returning at once. I have owned this piece in the past and I'm confident the one I'm holding does _not at all_ have the same feel or build quality.
> 
> This is not the first time. Some years ago I bought a Tissot from Joma that had a dial with uneven numbers and a "SWISS MADE" that looked like it had been painted in a rush. At the time I forgave what I assumed to be a rare lapse in quality control, but now I suspect something more systemic, or worse, a little sinister.
> 
> What is going on here? Is it time we grapple with the possibility that Joma's prices are _that_ good because they sell replicas? Or am I just going mad? Looking forward to your thoughts.





lecorbeau said:


> I appreciate my observations are not popular, but I duly qualified my suspicions and made no ad hominem attacks on anyone. Grateful if you could afford me the same courtesy.


Unfortunately, in modern world where google results will match keywords... this does qualify a ad hominem and slander against a business. Debating Joma customer service or warranty work is reasonable. Accusing them of peddling f*k*s with 0 proof is not.

Show pictures (macro) of the watch you claim is inauthentic. 
Also, keep in mind, that for some entry level brands like Tissot - there may be dozens if not more of slight variations on model design, and it's not impossible for quality to vary.

The burden of proof lies with accuser


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## obomomomo (Nov 4, 2014)

Instead of posting your doubts on the internet, you should have gone to an AD for verification.
I've never bought from Joma but know many here have. They are a large operation who have been in business for years, not a shady fly-by-night operator who opened yesterday and can close shop and run tomorrow.
Companies like these depend solely on good reputation to stay and grow their business. Imagine how much damage the publicity from a single verified fake watch can do to their business.

A bit of common sense wouldn't go amiss here.


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## OSUMBA2003 (Jan 1, 2012)

Jomashop has sold countless watches to members of this forum and other watch enthusiasts, who would either (1) be spotting the fakes themselves, or (2) would be taking their watches to get serviced, in which they would be identified as fakes at that time.

I don't know how many watches Jomashop sells, but I imagine it's in the thousands, if not millions. If they were selling fakes, someone would have figured it out by now and they'd have their pants sued off by every manufacturer.

And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Jomashop is selling watches with "Swiss Made" just a little off. I'm sure manufacturers and ADs would love to get rid of less-than-mint stock for a decent price, as opposed to throwing them in the garbage, especially if they can't do it warranty free.


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

"Real Talk"?? Where? Don't see any here. All I see is libel.

Helpful hint to the OP, he can edit the title to this thread in "go advanced" for a short time after posting.


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## Likestheshiny (Nov 28, 2011)

> I think it would be best to take the piece to an AD.


It's not like ADs can magically authenticate a watch just because they sell it. If they have a watchmaker on staff, they almost certainly can, but the average clerk at a watch store isn't going to be any better at authenticating a random watch than you are. In fact, there's a decent chance they'll be worse. I've noticed that some clerks like to propose that any watch bought online for less than MSRP is fake, and a decent fake can often fool anyone but an expert (which AD salespeople typically are not).

But in this case, none of it matters. In the many threads we've had complaining about Jomashop, there's never yet been a remotely credible claim that it sells fake watches. If it were happening, it would have been documented and repeatedly corroborated long ago. And if Joma did suddenly start selling fakes, it definitely wouldn't be starting with a Tissot.


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## Bahoomba (May 1, 2010)

Wow. Just ... wow.


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## kf3506 (Feb 2, 2013)

Good luck op. Good luck.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Is there any reason at this point to continue this thread?


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## giodoc (Aug 20, 2015)

lecorbeau said:


> I'm not one for conspiracy theories, nor am I wild about rocking the boat. I love a good deal like anyone else and I'm always eager to give people the benefit of the doubt. However, I recently made yet another purchase from Jomashop that I strongly suspect to be fake and will be returning at once. I have owned this piece in the past and I'm confident the one I'm holding does _not at all_ have the same feel or build quality.
> 
> This is not the first time. Some years ago I bought a Tissot from Joma that had a dial with uneven numbers and a "SWISS MADE" that looked like it had been painted in a rush. At the time I forgave what I assumed to be a rare lapse in quality control, but now I suspect something more systemic, or worse, a little sinister.
> 
> What is going on here? Is it time we grapple with the possibility that Joma's prices are _that_ good because they sell replicas? Or am I just going mad? Looking forward to your thoughts.


I've purchased a few "expensive" watches from Joma and can say with 100% confidence that all were appraised as completely authentic. Before you send your watch back, you may want to have it appraised. Two reasons, first obviously to verify you have an authentic watch, but secondly and more importantly, if you do have a "fake" watch this would be the forum to bring that kind of stuff up in to get the word out.


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## mike120 (Aug 1, 2010)

Is it really that unreasonable to think that someone may have bought the real McCoy from Joma and then returned a fake.......? I mean, it isn't like its nuts to think that they would resell something they got back with stickers and everything on it. You really think every schmuck working in the returns department is trained in fake spotting? Im sure that they would notice like a quartz sub, but a reasonably accurate Tissot knockoff would probably slip right under the radar. 

Pictures would probably help OP.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

Joma’s head is too far above the parapet for them to be messing about with watches that aren’t real.


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## Streetboss (Mar 5, 2011)

To the O.P. I would say that many of us here have purchased watches on the gray market and have managed for the most part to not buy f-k-s. A better approach by yourself may have been to go to a local A.D. and ask them to authenticate your watch. If they told you had a piece of junk instead of the real McCoy you would have a grievance with Jomashop.

The best move after that would have been to contact them and seek guidance for a resolution to the problem. Coming here and throwing around accusations that impugn their reputation is an example of reckless behavior. You have not only managed to hurt their reputation but your own integrity within this community has just been brought into question. Just my two cents worth.

Kevin


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## doggbiter (Oct 31, 2010)

mike120 said:


> Is it really that unreasonable to think that someone may have bought the real McCoy from Joma and then returned a fake.......? I mean, it isn't like its nuts to think that they would resell something they got back with stickers and everything on it. You really think every schmuck working in the returns department is trained in fake spotting? Im sure that they would notice like a quartz sub, but a reasonably accurate Tissot knockoff would probably slip right under the radar.
> 
> Pictures would probably help OP.


It's not beyond all possibilities that Joma could get hoodwinked and send out a returned fake as you suggested. Not probable but certainly possible.

But then the appropriate thing to do in ANY case, would be to have the watch authenticated first, so you can move forward on the basis of fact not mere suspicion. You certainly don't go online and make allegations without any proof other than your instinct.


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## MarkieB (Feb 25, 2017)

I find it wholly inappropriate to accuse a reputable company of fraud on a public forum (or anywhere else for that matter), not only with no proof, but without even contacting the company in question first to discuss concerns. Whatever happened to the legal presumption "of inccoecnt until proven guilty".

Please remember that we should,treat others as we wish to be treated,s I can't understand when several members question your state of mind, you take offence. Surely at least there is some even dance to support their claims


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## wbird (Feb 25, 2015)

Gee OP you put a lot on the table let me see if I can answer all you questions:

- Nope Joma doesn't sell fakes never had one post with a confirmed fake purchased from them.

- Is it time to grapple with the possibility of fakes from Joma based on your post, no.

- Are you going mad, no I just suspect you can't identify a genuine watch when you see one and are into conspiracy theories.

What bothers me with these kind of baseless posts is a couple of things, the first being the passive aggressive start, "I'm not into...." and than proceeds to state exactly the thing their not into and drop a bomb. You know when people say, "No disrespect, but your wife is (insert the most crude thing here)." Like saying the qualifier makes it okay.

The second thing I despise with a conspiracy theory, is more people join in and make up more conspiracy theories to support the initial crazy. Like watch switching on returns.

Hopefully I answered your questions, and you move on.


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## Huliganchik (Jun 24, 2017)

I'm not huge Joma fan, but you should have probably gotten to the bottom of authenticity of your watch before releasing their identity. Also as someone mentioned, chances of fake tissot is is probably very low. If the watch doesn't make you happy, then return and move on.


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

*obsession with fakes*

I continue to be fascinated with the wis preoccupation with this topic.

It is so expensive to produce an out right fake that will pass muster with even the most inexperienced watchmaker that I see no advantage in attempting to produce them for the collector community.

:-d


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## topol2 (Jul 12, 2016)

Abacab said:


> A few days back someone posted a thread saying that he won't buy an Omega Speedmaster because the moon landings were staged. You are in sad but interesting company.


Oh my gosh......the moon landings were real......


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## DrGonzo (Aug 29, 2014)

I like pancakes.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

DrGonzo said:


> I like pancakes.


Good timing.  I finished off pureeing the baked pumpkin last night, and portioning it up into batches for pumpkin custards last night. There's just enough left over to make a spiced pumpkin-almond flour pancake. Was gonna do that this morning, but other factors intervened. Tuesday, I think.

The pumpkin seeds from the baking part...didn't last the weekend... 

I think I'll wear my Tissot for a couple days...the one I got from Jomashop........


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## StephenCanale (Mar 24, 2016)

lecorbeau said:


> I'm not one for conspiracy theories,


Followed by conspiracy theory.....

For the sake of discussion, I'm re-writing your post for you:
I recently purchased a watch from Jomashop that I actually suspect to be a fake.

Here's a few pics:....

What do you guys think?

Has anyone every seen an actual fake slip into Jomashop's supply chain or is there any reason to suspect that maybe they're trading in manufacturer's second/imperfect/refurbished watches that are possibly being supplied to them without their realizing it?

I also purchase a Tissot from them in the past that had issues and that makes me wonder if their low prices aren't perhaps a result of unethical actors in their supply chain.

Anyone else have similar experiences?​
As for myself, I've only bought one watch from them and there was no reason at all to question its authenticity, so my suggested re-write is only provided as a way to maybe restate the question/concern in a more constructive manner.

But, as for selling outright fake watches _intentionally_, that defies all logic for a company of Jomashop's size that has any intention of staying in business at scale.


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## Rdenney (Dec 24, 2012)

StephenCanale said:


> Followed by conspiracy theory.....
> 
> For the sake of discussion, I'm re-writing your post for you:
> I recently purchased a watch from Jomashop that I actually suspect to be a fake.
> ...


Better: "I just bought a watch but on closer inspection I have my doubts. Here are lose-up pictures with the issue dispassionately described. What do you guys think?" Thread title: "A little concerned about this watch..." (Salient feature: No mention of Joma.)

But even this can be a problem. There are those on this forum for whom every evidence of parallax error or the distortion of a curved crystal will have them crying foul. If it's not obvious in the fingers, then how will a bunch of internet idiots be able to tell?

Better still: (on the phone, and before peeling off the plastic) "Joma, I have some concerns about the watch you sent me--some of the details are not what I expected. I would like to return it for a replacement."

Rick "instead of choosing the most tendentious possible response" Denney


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## maylebox (Feb 11, 2017)

Rdenney said:


> Better: "I just bought a watch but on closer inspection I have my doubts. Here are lose-up pictures with the issue dispassionately described. What do you guys think?" Thread title: "A little concerned about this watch..." (Salient feature: No mention of Joma.)
> 
> But even this can be a problem. There are those on this forum for whom every evidence of parallax error or the distortion of a curved crystal will have them crying foul. If it's not obvious in the fingers, then how will a bunch of internet idiots be able to tell?
> 
> ...


Well stated RD and nice use of "tendentious". Yes, I had to look it up.


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## eblackmo (Dec 27, 2014)

doggbiter said:


> *We are certainly not in any position to evaluate your mental condition*, but if you take the watch to a reliable source to have it authenticated, that may answer your question and possibly prevent you from going online in the future and slandering a company based solely on a gut feeling...


Ah. That gave me a good chuckle. Cheers.


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## mrebant (Mar 22, 2017)

I can’t speak to your situation but I can attest to my own. I bought my Omega DSOTM from Jomashop over the summer. With the exception of a small shipping delay, the transaction went flawlessly. I recently had my DSOTM authenticated through an Omega boutique, 100% legit. I hope your situation isn’t as nefarious as you presume...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Champagne1986 (Nov 28, 2016)

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have been debating a purchase from Joma for a while, the Omega speedmaster co-axial moonphase, but when I came across their listing for the normal Speedmaster co-axial an image appears to be wrong.

[Apparently I need a higher post count to add a link]

When you look at the rear view of the watch, on the clasp it says Omega Speedmaster Professional, when it shouldn't, also on the rotor, instead of the text reading Omega Co-Axial 9300 it only says Omega Co-Axial.

Why is this image incorrect?


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## BMWE46 (Dec 15, 2014)

Champagne1986 said:


> Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here.
> 
> I have been debating a purchase from Joma for a while, the Omega speedmaster co-axial moonphase, but when I came across their listing for the normal Speedmaster co-axial an image appears to be wrong.
> 
> ...


There red are so many different variations of the moon watch that you could be confusing one model for another. I can tell you that I've purchased dozens of watches from Joma over the years and have always been nothing but satisfied completely. I do always call them first to verify that the watch I want is actually in stock and I always pay the extra $35 or so to have the watch overnighted. It seems like most of the issues that come to light with Joma is them ending up not having a specific watch in stock when it says it's supposed to be when people order it and then shipping taking longer than it should. I've never had an issue when I use overnight, it seems like they have to pay closer attention to those deals and make sure everything goes smooth to get the watch out that same day. The watches I've bought from them have all been 100% perfect and never had an issue with not getting a factory warranty either as none of the watches ever had any problems that would've fallen under the manufacturers warranty time period anyway.


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## JodyH (Apr 12, 2016)

Champagne1986 said:


> Why is this image incorrect?


The majority of Internet businesses use "stock photos" of their various products instead of actual photos.
Sometimes they match exactly, often they're just close. 
That's why you should always check the actual model number instead of just relying on the picture.
All Jomashop listing have the manufacturers model number in the description, cross reference that model number with the manufacturers web site to verify exactly what the listing is for.


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## mdaclarke (Jan 31, 2015)

I would be astounded if Jomashop was acting in the way described by the OP. They have spent years making building up goodwill, which is essential in their industry and if they have acted in the way described by the OP it would destroy this goodwill. This is why I have great difficulty believing this as it risks so much for so little reward. Personally speaking I would not have made this accusation unless I was 100% sure the watch was a fake and I had established this with the support of an independent expert report as the OP's comments (if they are in England) are libel if untrue and If the comments are untrue and if the OP has not obtained an expert report before making them. I would, if Jomashop, consider that the comments were made in a reckless manner and again, if the comments are untrue and if I were Jomashop I would be taking legal advice as to my options.


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## Champagne1986 (Nov 28, 2016)

Thank you for your reply.
I'm not confusing the model, it's the 311.30.44.51.01.002 which is the modern Speedmaster Co-axial on a steel bracelet, now I'm not saying it's fake, all I'm asking for is an explanation as to why the images they post are not legit, because as I mentioned before the 'professional' should not be on the clasp, and on the rotor it should say 'Omega Co-Axial 9300' but the image omits the '9300'.
I tried asking Joma but had no reply, I just would like to know so I can feel comfortable ordering.


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## Champagne1986 (Nov 28, 2016)

Sorry I don't know how to edit my post, I didn't see your post before I replied JodyH.
So what you're saying is the images are just stock and I should put as much weight into them as I have?


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## eblackmo (Dec 27, 2014)

Champagne1986 said:


> *Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here.
> *
> I have been debating a purchase from Joma for a while, the Omega speedmaster co-axial moonphase, but when I came across their listing for the normal Speedmaster co-axial an image appears to be wrong.
> 
> ...


Why is your join date nov 2016? Just remember if no one else loves you mister sock puppet does.


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## Champagne1986 (Nov 28, 2016)

eblackmo said:


> Why is your join date nov 2016? Just remember if no one else loves you mister sock puppet does.


Made an account a while ago but never posted until today, why, is that a problem for you?


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## Will_f (Jul 4, 2011)

OSUMBA2003 said:


> Jomashop has sold countless watches to members of this forum and other watch enthusiasts, who would either (1) be spotting the fakes themselves, or (2) would be taking their watches to get serviced, in which they would be identified as fakes at that time.
> 
> I don't know how many watches Jomashop sells, but I imagine it's in the thousands, if not millions. If they were selling fakes, someone would have figured it out by now and they'd have their pants sued off by every manufacturer.
> 
> And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Jomashop is selling watches with "Swiss Made" just a little off. I'm sure manufacturers and ADs would love to get rid of less-than-mint stock for a decent price, as opposed to throwing them in the garbage, especially if they can't do it warranty free.


The watch world equivalent of the discount mall. That might be true for relatively inexpensive fashion watches. It would be risky for upscale brands to do that. Essentially they would be degrading their product in the same way fakes do.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## eblackmo (Dec 27, 2014)

Champagne1986 said:


> Made an account a while ago but never posted until today, why, is that a problem for you?


Nothing better to do huh? That's a shame.


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## starbrown (Mar 2, 2015)

Hmm. I have a potential problem with a watch manufacturer that I was thinking of posting here, but after reading this thread I'm not sure I would bother. Like putting your head in the lion's den.


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## Champagne1986 (Nov 28, 2016)

eblackmo said:


> Nothing better to do huh? That's a shame.


I don't understand your problem, I had a legitimate question, yet for some reason you're hung up on the fact a made my account a while ago, and haven't posted until now.
Now the person with 6,500 posts is telling me I have nothing better to do... OK buddy.


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## ibemanson (Jul 6, 2017)

I am going to make some popcorn.


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## Rdenney (Dec 24, 2012)

starbrown said:


> Hmm. I have a potential problem with a watch manufacturer that I was thinking of posting here, but after reading this thread I'm not sure I would bother. Like putting your head in the lion's den.


The takeaway here is to avoid making unevidenced accusations. And try to resolve issues with the company and its dealer first, in good faith.

The reasons for the response are obvious, or should be. When I see a post like this, I don't get the sense that the poster really wants to resolve the issue, but rather just wants to grind an axe, out of some revenge motive.

I bought a Concord C1 from Ashford once, and it didn't run when it arrived. Also, the watch had obviously been badly rattled around--the inside of the case was damaged. My post was something to the effect of "alas, I'll have to trade it--it doesn't run and appears to have been damaged in shipping." No accusations, no breast-beating, no tendentious thread titles. Ashford, of course, had a (perfect) replacement in my hands in a few days. For an 80% discount, one might occasionally have to deal with an issue.

Rick "little sympathy for those who drink from a well they already suspect is tainted" Denney


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## Will_f (Jul 4, 2011)

wbird said:


> .
> 
> The second thing I despise with a conspiracy theory, is more people join in and make up more conspiracy theories to support the initial crazy. Like watch switching on returns.
> 
> Hopefully I answered your questions, and you move on.


Just one question- are you saying that aliens AREN'T planting fake watches which are really machine intelligences bent on world domination?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## doggbiter (Oct 31, 2010)

starbrown said:


> Hmm. I have a potential problem with a watch manufacturer that I was thinking of posting here, but after reading this thread I'm not sure I would bother. Like putting your head in the lion's den.


If you are planning on leveling allegations against the manufacturer but providing no evidence or making any attempt to corroborate your allegations, than, yes-- you probably shouldn't bother. There's a right way and a wrong way to do just about anything.

At a minimum, OP should have posted some good quality pictures to support his suspicions and asked for some feedback. If he was really concerned, he should have had the watch authenticated by a watch professional.

Regardless, good luck with your issue.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

doggbiter said:


> We are certainly not in any position to evaluate your mental condition, but if you take the watch to a reliable source to have it authenticated, that may answer your question and possibly prevent you from going online in the future and slandering a company based solely on a gut feeling...


Well said.


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## JodyH (Apr 12, 2016)

Champagne1986 said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> I'm not confusing the model, it's the 311.30.44.51.01.002 which is the modern Speedmaster Co-axial on a steel bracelet, now I'm not saying it's fake, all I'm asking for is an explanation as to why the images they post are not legit, because as I mentioned before the 'professional' should not be on the clasp, and on the rotor it should say 'Omega Co-Axial 9300' but the image omits the '9300'.
> I tried asking Joma but had no reply, I just would like to know so I can feel comfortable ordering.


Because the guy who updates the web site might have mistyped a number when he went searching for the stock photo of the watch, or the guy who originally named that stock photo might have mistyped a number, or the photo is from 5 or 10 years ago and was never updated.
Jomashop does not take photos of every watch they sell, they go to a photo database and pull up whatever images are associated with that model number.
There are literally dozens of legitimate reasons why a web site photo is not an exact match for the product being sold.
That's why you shop by model number not the picture on the web site.
Jomashop has several Panerai listings that show a sandwich dial but when you pull up the model number that watch actually has a printed dial.
Mistakes happen in photos and descriptions when you're listing thousands of items on a constantly updating shopping web site.
Safest bet is to always shop by model number and description and only use the photos as a way of quickly scanning through listings.


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## mharris660 (Jan 1, 2015)

Using your criteria I got a fake Ford from the dealership once. There was a small blemish in the paint under a headlight.


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## mharris660 (Jan 1, 2015)

This is like the Russian Bot thing only the bots work for a rival watch company and they go around and post negative stories about their competition. You want ants? Because this is how you get ants.


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## hpark21 (Oct 8, 2007)

Interesting.. So many postings.. You would think by now SOMEONE would have posted some pics.. Even if it is screen capture of the Joma's website.. Ugh..

People, many threads are useless without pictures!!


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## wbird (Feb 25, 2015)

Will_f said:


> Just one question- are you saying that aliens AREN'T planting fake watches which are really machine intelligences bent on world domination?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Of course they ARE, just not from Joma.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Pheeelco said:


> I think it would be best to take the piece to an AD. Eliminate your uncertainty. Jomashop are a high-profile seller with a huge turnover - they would have a lot to lose if they are selling replicas. Manufacturers take this VERY seriously indeed and would pursue action against them ruthlessly (most probably). The higher-end the brand, the more brutal the response, I would think.
> 
> Obviously it is possible that you have a fake on your hands - or it could be a defective product that slipped past QC.
> 
> ...


Actually, not all brands take replicas seriously. Panerai is one. Their boutiques will not verify replica/genuine even for a fee. I have tried with their Beverly Hills sales center. They have no interest in stopping fakes. Probably why panerai replicas are now very challenging to distinguish from real. The parts are now even interchangeable! I usually take great precaution when purchasing this brand.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## starbrown (Mar 2, 2015)

usc1 said:


> Actually, not all brands take replicas seriously. Panerai is one. Their boutiques will not verify replica/genuine even for a fee. I have tried with their Beverly Hills sales center. They have no interest in stopping fakes. Probably why panerai replicas are now very challenging to distinguish from real. The parts are now even interchangeable! I usually take great precaution when purchasing this brand.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to see someone pointing out that bringing a suspected replica to an AD is not always determinative. Also not pointed out is that a high volume gray market dealer might inadvertently purchase and re-sell replicas. They are in the business of rapid turnover, and may not always be so careful about what they are buying and from whom. For sure, the ultimate buyer has no idea where the watch came from. There is a risk in purchasing watches without the paperwork, whether people wish to recognize it or not. If the only way an OP can voice a concern or suspicion is to give absolute proof, why would he need to ask WUS for help?


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## mike120 (Aug 1, 2010)

wbird said:


> The second thing I despise with a conspiracy theory, is more people join in and make up more conspiracy theories to support the initial crazy. Like watch switching on returns.


People pull it with surprising frequency with Amazon, particularly with iPhones and iPads. One reseller I know had it happen ~30 times with iPhone 7s alone. I?m also personally aware of it happening to two separate guys on eBay with the older Tudors, for which the fakes would certainly pass less than OCD WIS muster. Think, oh I dunno, someone getting paid minimum wage in a warehouse who isn?t going to take the case back off to look for a different bridge.....? The chances of a careful inspection would seem to be even lower with the $500 Tissots for which there are unbelievably convincing fakes. And since they?re a reputable dealer, who other than the overly anal WIS would think anything of it?

As an aside, I?m not sure if English isn?t your first language or what but i don?t think ?conspiracy theory? means what you think it means.........


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

ibemanson said:


> I am going to make some popcorn.


Welcome to the show!


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## vkalia (Oct 26, 2014)

usc1 said:


> Actually, not all brands take replicas seriously. Panerai is one. Their boutiques will not verify replica/genuine even for a fee. I have tried with their Beverly Hills sales center. They have no interest in stopping fakes. Probably why panerai replicas are now very challenging to distinguish from real. The parts are now even interchangeable! I usually take great precaution when purchasing this brand.


Are you basing the statement that "Panerai doesnt take replicas seriously" on the fact that the Beverly Hills sales center wouldnt verify if real/genuine, or on something else?

Because the latter doesnt automatically imply the former. Eg, in many parts of Asia, Rolex service centers have also stopped doing authentication. That doesnt mean Rolex doesnt take fakes seriously.


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## Abacab (Oct 7, 2017)

This thread needs to be put down. Maybe we can concentrate on something more productive like who was behind the grassy knoll, or who is heading up the Iluminati these days?

So long from Area 51!


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## doggbiter (Oct 31, 2010)

starbrown said:


> Good to see someone pointing out that bringing a suspected replica to an AD is not always determinative. Also not pointed out is that a high volume gray market dealer might inadvertently purchase and re-sell replicas. They are in the business of rapid turnover, and may not always be so careful about what they are buying and from whom. For sure, the ultimate buyer has no idea where the watch came from. There is a risk in purchasing watches without the paperwork, whether people wish to recognize it or not. If the only way an OP can voice a concern or suspicion is to give absolute proof, why would he need to ask WUS for help?


I think the point is that OP did not ask WUS for help. He stated he suspected the watch is a fake and was returning it and called out Jomashop as selling fakes. Period. No pictures. No specifics as to why he felt that way. What's OP's background and history with watches? Does he have the experience with that brand and model to spot a fake? No one is asking for absolute proof, whatever that is, but it's not unreasonable to expect OP to provide something that will allow the rest of us to assess the credibility of his claim. He's provided nothing other than his words.

At this point, it is equally likely that OP works for a competitor of Joma, be it an AD or another GM dealer, and is simply using WUS for their own commercial gain by trashing a competitor. We've seen nothing that even indicates OP ever purchased a watch from Joma.

Joma has it's share of detractors here-- I've seen criticism of their customer service, order fulfillment, shipping and warranty policies in the past. And where those people have supported their claims with specifics, they are usually accepted unchallenged.

It is not unfair to ask that anyone making accusations provide some minimal level of detail or specifics to be taken seriously. In my opinion, OP's claims here, don't meet that standard.


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## GRSC (Sep 19, 2017)

doggbiter said:


> We are certainly not in any position to evaluate your mental condition, but if you take the watch to a reliable source to have it authenticated, that may answer your question and possibly prevent you from going online in the future and slandering a company based solely on a gut feeling...


x2. "real talk" :roll:


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## Rdenney (Dec 24, 2012)

starbrown said:


> Good to see someone pointing out that bringing a suspected replica to an AD is not always determinative. Also not pointed out is that a high volume gray market dealer might inadvertently purchase and re-sell replicas. They are in the business of rapid turnover, and may not always be so careful about what they are buying and from whom. For sure, the ultimate buyer has no idea where the watch came from. There is a risk in purchasing watches without the paperwork, whether people wish to recognize it or not. If the only way an OP can voice a concern or suspicion is to give absolute proof, why would he need to ask WUS for help?


Joma authenticates the same way you and I do, by buying the seller. They don't accept stock from Canal Street or from some nameless Internet source or random peddlar. They get their stock from the manufacturers themselves, or from established distributors and retailers with whom they have a standing relationship.

Their watches have the paperwork, it just isn't always filled in and therefore can't be used to press a warranty claim.

The problem with Panerai is that it is too easy and profitable to rip off their design, and I expect their AD's simply don't have the time to validate unauthorized-channel purchases for those who probably know what they bought because of who they bought it from.

Rick "still unevidenced speculation" Denney


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## Likestheshiny (Nov 28, 2011)

> Is it really that unreasonable to think that someone may have bought the real McCoy from Joma and then returned a fake.......? I mean, it isn't like its nuts to think that they would resell something they got back with stickers and everything on it. You really think every schmuck working in the returns department is trained in fake spotting? Im sure that they would notice like a quartz sub, but a reasonably accurate Tissot knockoff would probably slip right under the radar.


Possible, but probably not. First, it seems pretty likely that the largest grey-market watch vendor would be aware how many fake watches are out there, and have done something to prevent being ripped off on a watch return. You don't get this successful by being stupid. Second (and perhaps more to the point), there hasn't yet been a single remotely credible claim of a fake watch being sold through Jomashop. That alone strongly suggests they have a system in place.

I suppose it could be just dumb luck that they've gone this far without anyone noticing, but the odds on that are pretty long.


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)




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## StephenRG (Dec 24, 2016)

Abacab said:


> This thread needs to be put down. Maybe we can concentrate on something more productive like who was behind the grassy knoll, or who is heading up the Iluminati these days?
> 
> So long from Area 51!


"I inherited a Mannlicher-Carcano from my grandfather", etc. etc.


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## csu87 (Feb 5, 2016)

81 posts but no pics of the supposedly fake watch?

I wonder which competitor OP works for.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

Abacab said:


> Don't worry, you are not alone by a long shot. A few days back someone posted a thread saying that he won't buy an Omega Speedmaster because the moon landings were staged. You are in sad but interesting company.


I'm pretty sure that was a joke, but even if it wasn't it was a funny thread.


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## CHJ001 (Oct 5, 2017)

I assume we're talking about pre-owned watches only. When buying a "new" watch from a gray market seller like Joma, don't you get "papers"---some kind of documentation with a serial number on it that can somehow be verified as authentic? And don't you get everything else you would get from an AD, box, etc., except for the warranty?


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## hpark21 (Oct 8, 2007)

CHJ001 said:


> I assume we're talking about pre-owned watches only. When buying a "new" watch from a gray market seller like Joma, don't you get "papers"---some kind of documentation with a serial number on it that can somehow be verified as authentic? And don't you get everything else you would get from an AD, box, etc., except for the warranty?


People have this WEIRD notion that a manufacturing company which has sophisticated enough operation to create/case/manufacture semi complex mechanical product can't print a simple "documentation/paper" with number on it. No, having a piece of paper does not make a legit product.


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## mharris660 (Jan 1, 2015)

The call on the field is piling on.......After further review there is no piling on. Please feel free to jump away.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

vkalia said:


> Are you basing the statement that "Panerai doesnt take replicas seriously" on the fact that the Beverly Hills sales center wouldnt verify if real/genuine, or on something else?
> 
> Because the latter doesnt automatically imply the former. Eg, in many parts of Asia, Rolex service centers have also stopped doing authentication. That doesnt mean Rolex doesnt take fakes seriously.


That is a valid question.

It is based on my conversation with the female sales rep at Panerai. She basically told me they do not care for secondary markets and only suggested buying from them. I asked about aftermarket sales of pre-owned watches and it was stated to me that it is a foregone conclusion and new sales is their concern. I then asked about pre-owned supplies and fakes affecting the retail side of value retention. No concern was the yield.


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## csu87 (Feb 5, 2016)

usc1 said:


> That is a valid question.
> 
> It is based on my conversation with the female sales rep at Panerai. She basically told me they do not care for secondary markets and only suggested buying from them. I asked about aftermarket sales of pre-owned watches and it was stated to me that it is a foregone conclusion and new sales is their concern. I then asked about pre-owned supplies and fakes affecting the retail side of value retention. No concern was the yield.


Doesnt mean they arent concerned about fakes, just that they arent concerned about the fakes taking their business away. At least the way you worded this post.

Only thing Panerai, or more specifically, this lady at a store, cares about is selling new watches. She could careless if you got scammed online. If you arent buying a new watch from her, gtfo.


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## J.D.B. (Oct 12, 2009)

Nope.


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## Stoshman (Jun 26, 2015)

timefleas said:


> My son's hamster sometimes runs so fast on it's spinning wheel that it flies off--were it similarly possible for original posters of threads like these.


Hamsters can be problematic, especially if your watch is running fast.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

csu87 said:


> Doesnt mean they arent concerned about fakes, just that they arent concerned about the fakes taking their business away. At least the way you worded this post.
> 
> Only thing Panerai, or more specifically, this lady at a store, cares about is selling new watches. She could careless if you got scammed online. If you arent buying a new watch from her, gtfo.


You just supported my point.

GTFO if not buying a new watch. We don't care to verify fakes.


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## BigSeikoFan (Feb 15, 2010)

Hey OP, any luck with those macro shots yet?


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## csu87 (Feb 5, 2016)

usc1 said:


> You just supported my point.
> 
> GTFO if not buying a new watch. We don't care to verify fakes.


right, but it doesnt mean Panerai arent concerned with fakes, just that this lady isnt. And it isnt even saying she isnt concerned with fakes either. Just that if you cant afford to buy a new watch from her, she isnt wasting her time with you.

Im willing to bet if you walked in with a fake and tried to sell back to them, or get it serviced or whatever, theyd call you out pretty quickly on it and you wouldnt be going back to that store for anything.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Thank you both for derailing this thread.


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## hidden by leaves (Mar 6, 2010)

Wonder what happened to the OP? Please vote: 

1.) Took his ball and went home. 

2.) Went back under his bridge. 

3.) Jomashop saw this thread and "disappeared" him.

or... ???


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## csu87 (Feb 5, 2016)

hidden by leaves said:


> Wonder what happened to the OP? Please vote:
> 
> 1.) Took his ball and went home.
> 
> ...


#3 is the only logical outcome of this thread.


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## rymanocerous (Oct 10, 2015)

hidden by leaves said:


> Wonder what happened to the OP? Please vote:
> 
> 1.) Took his ball and went home.
> 
> ...


4.) Jomashop released a fake OP that doesn't talk about fakes. Does not come with manufactures warranty however.


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## sailon01 (May 20, 2015)

The first rule of Fake Club is: you do not talk about Fake Club. The second rule of Fake Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fake Club!


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## crisc416 (Oct 17, 2017)

JodyH said:


> The majority of Internet businesses use "stock photos" of their various products instead of actual photos.
> Sometimes they match exactly, often they're just close.
> That's why you should always check the actual model number instead of just relying on the picture.
> All Jomashop listing have the manufacturers model number in the description, cross reference that model number with the manufacturers web site to verify exactly what the listing is for.


Good Answer!


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## manser46 (Jan 16, 2015)

I will weigh in on this conversation. I have purchased many watches from Joma Shop over the past several years and have not been disappointed with any purchase. I have ordered high end to Invictas and always the shipping has been good, communication good and product when arrived as advertised. I have also returned some watches because as you know sometimes the pictures make the product look better than real item. Again, no problems with returns either. I suspect that at times they could be selling returns as new, but I doubt they are selling fakes or replicas.


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## I Like em BIG ! ! (Feb 10, 2012)

I haven't read the entire thread and wasted my time on the first page. I feel JS has real case of Slander and Defamation lawsuit here and really think they should pursue it!


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## I Like em BIG ! ! (Feb 10, 2012)

Another thought...

How do you sell the most faked watch brand out there... ROLEX and never once brought to task about it after selling hundreds, maybe, thousands??

SUE HIM..., Sue Him..., Sue him... ! !


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## starbrown (Mar 2, 2015)

Gosh, I'm really disappointed-I expected you folks would suggest the OP should be drawn and quartered. Then again, if this thread goes on much longer, you might just get there.


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## Rdenney (Dec 24, 2012)

starbrown said:


> Gosh, I'm really disappointed-I expected you folks would suggest the OP should be drawn and quartered. Then again, if this thread goes on much longer, you might just get there.


Nope.

Rick "tar and feathers only" Denney


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## mharris660 (Jan 1, 2015)

Jomoshop put a horse head in his bed


hidden by leaves said:


> Wonder what happened to the OP? Please vote:
> 
> 1.) Took his ball and went home.
> 
> ...


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## Pallet Spoon (Nov 24, 2008)

... sleepin' wit da fishes ...


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## Huliganchik (Jun 24, 2017)

Pallet Spoon said:


> ... sleepin' wit da fishes ...


Won't be surprised as they are from Brooklyn


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

This thread has long outlived it's usefulness so time to pull the plug. Let's move on to something related to the enjoyment of watches.


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