# Show your Kirovskie k43 type 1



## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Hello comrades! Here I open this thread so that we can share our Kirovskie type 1 watches from the soviet red army before/during/after World War II and talk about them, their history, straps, cares, maintenance, sells, auctions, problems, spares, etc...

Please feel free to share your piece of history.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

This is my original Kirovskie from 1939 World War II in very good perfect conditions. It only gains around 20 seconds per day (average around +/- 1 to 3 minutes).

I found it in Kharkiv (Ukraine).

Here some photos.


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

What a great thread - I have a few, which I would like to show in this thread over a period of time , to keep the thread going. Hopefully others will contribute here with some of the beautiful examples I have seen so far on this forum.

To kick off my contributions, here is the first of the Type-1s I acquired (ex-Comrade slls collection) - a very lovely piece from 1939. It winds and works beautifully and keeps excellent time over 24 hours plus much more&#8230;


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

What a beautiful watch Geoff, it is great to know that both watches were made at the same period of time! 2-1939 congrats!


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

I would like to share some real photos of the read army wearing Kirovskies









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## Vaurien (Jun 9, 2008)

Beautiful! They are lovely historical models.
This is mine

Kirovskie Type-1 by AVaurien, su Flickr

and this is the movement

Kirovskie Type-1 by AVaurien, su Flickr

Quite the same time of the others, isn't true?


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## Vaurien (Jun 9, 2008)

I have another Type one, a Chistopol CK6 of the year 1948

Vostok Kirovskie ChK6 1948 by AVaurien, su Flickr

with a different dial

Vostok Kirovskie ChK6 1948 by AVaurien, su Flickr


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Very beautiful watches Vaurien! Exactly! Another 1939 watch just like ours. Congratulations for your little treasures!


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## heimdalg (Apr 17, 2013)

This is my Type-1.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Congrats Heindalg! I am looking for a Kirovskie with the same look like yours. You're so lucky!


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## heimdalg (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks. The watch is bought from Germany and I was very happy to have found it.


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

Beautiful pieces comrades! Please allow me to add another of mine, this time from 2-1941. This is a 7 jewel example with the 1WMF logo on the movement - however the ebay seller sold it as being constructed in the Zlatoust factory. There was some discussion about whether the movement was made in 1MWF before the factory was evacuated in the face of the German invasion, and then the watch was put together later in Zlatoust. I have no provenance for this though... This one works fine and keeps good time - but Mr Ellis tells me the movement is very 'delicate' now, so I don't really wear it. It stays safe and sound in the display case ...


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

heimdalg said:


> This is my Type-1.
> View attachment 3959914
> View attachment 3959922
> View attachment 3959930
> View attachment 3959938


Comrade heimdalg - I note your beautiful piece has a number stamp just below the hands, which is only barely visible. I believe this identifies your piece as specifically a military issue watch. The light colour of the dial tells me that it was an issue watch to a lower ranking officer, most probably of the Red Army&#8230; a wonderful piece to own!


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## Worzel (Jul 12, 2010)

Zlatoust pocket watch for the blind. Made 4-54 with a full hunter case.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Wow! Very impressed with the dial! Very very beautiful comrade Worzel!


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

I'd like to start with the first question. How often do you wear it?

I work in a office so I can wear it almost everydays. I know that they are very sensible to impacts but I always try to be careful.


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## heimdalg (Apr 17, 2013)

Geoff Adams said:


> Comrade heimdalg - I note your beautiful piece has a number stamp just below the hands, which is only barely visible. I believe this identifies your piece as specifically a military issue watch. The light colour of the dial tells me that it was an issue watch to a lower ranking officer, most probably of the Red Army&#8230; a wonderful piece to own!


Thank you comrade Geoff. I have not noticed so far that the watch has a number stamp on the dial. The case is another part of the watch that I found intriguing. Please, notice the stamp from the inside of the case. I also do not know which metal was used for it. The case is not crom-plated and I also don't think it is made of silver or stainless steel. Maybe the comrades that have more experience in the field can help me.


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

oskita89 said:


> I'd like to start with the first question. How often do you wear it?
> 
> I work in a office so I can wear it almost everydays. I know that they are very sensible to impacts but I always try to be careful.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 These old pieces only get worn once every couple of months - just to give the movement a workout. I do like to wear them out though, usually when I go to a restaurant with friends or similar. Never on a boozy night out though!


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

heimdalg said:


> Thank you comrade Geoff. I have not noticed so far that the watch has a number stamp on the dial. The case is another part of the watch that I found intriguing. Please, notice the stamp from the inside of the case. I also do not know which metal was used for it. The case is not crom-plated and I also don't think it is made of silver or stainless steel. Maybe the comrades that have more experience in the field can help me.


From what I can see, and unless my eyes deceive me, if you look just to the left of the top of the minutes hand, there is the number 9 embossed on the dial. I can't see if the rest of the number stamp still exists - either the photo is not clear enough or the rest of the stamp has become invisible over time - unless of course what I am assuming to be a number 9 is a trick of the lens or the light? But when I enhance the photo, it certainly seems to be there to me. I'm afraid I have no knowledge of what the stamp on the inside of the case back means&#8230;

Here is my piece, from 1942. On mine, you can clearly see the number embossed below the hands - which I believe denotes this watch as military issue. Because it is the light dial variant, I understand it was issued to military officers of lower rank - the black dial variant being issued to military officers of higher rank. It has the blue printed dial and the logo of the First Moscow Watch Factory stamped below the 12. The 15j movement has inscribed on it HC (Не Сорт). Here is what the seller, Comrade Hans, has to say about it: "The fact this watch doesn't have a year and factory logo on the movement is because it was made around 1942 (war time) in Russia. At that time factories like the 1st MWF and 2nd MWF where moved to the east. Rare movements have stamps like 53 and this one also has a rare sign H.C (Не Сорт). Watches where put together in a hurry to supply the military. According to Russian watch collectors, there was no time to add detailed factory logo's on the movements."


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## Lucidor (Jul 29, 2009)

Here is one of mine with case in solid silver.


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## Worzel (Jul 12, 2010)

Geoff Adams said:


> Comrade heimdalg - I note your beautiful piece has a number stamp just below the hands, which is only barely visible. I believe this identifies your piece as specifically a military issue watch. The light colour of the dial tells me that it was an issue watch to a lower ranking officer, most probably of the Red Army&#8230; a wonderful piece to own!


Geoff, I don't see a difference between the dial color on your example and Lucidor's solid silver one. Does this raise a little doubt about your theory that they were issued to lower ranking officers - what with it being solid silver?


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## Ham2 (Nov 25, 2010)

Geoff Adams said:


> From what I can see, and unless my eyes deceive me, if you look just to the left of the top of the minutes hand, there is the number 9 embossed on the dial. I can't see if the rest of the number stamp still exists - either the photo is not clear enough or the rest of the stamp has become invisible over time - unless of course what I am assuming to be a number 9 is a trick of the lens or the light? But when I enhance the photo, it certainly seems to be there to me. I'm afraid I have no knowledge of what the stamp on the inside of the case back means&#8230; Here is my piece, from 1942. On mine, you can clearly see the number embossed below the hands - which I believe denotes this watch as military issue. Because it is the light dial variant, I understand it was issued to military officers of lower rank - the black dial variant being issued to military officers of higher rank. It has the blue printed dial and the logo of the First Moscow Watch Factory stamped below the 12. The 15j movement has inscribed on it HC (Не Сорт). Here is what the seller, Comrade Hans, has to say about it: "The fact this watch doesn't have a year and factory logo on the movement is because it was made around 1942 (war time) in Russia. At that time factories like the 1st MWF and 2nd MWF where moved to the east. Rare movements have stamps like 53 and this one also has a rare sign H.C (Не Сорт). Watches where put together in a hurry to supply the military. According to Russian watch collectors, there was no time to add detailed factory logo's on the movements."


 I thought I saw a 9, 4 and 7 stamped on Comrade Heimdalg's dial.


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## 93EXCivic (Nov 6, 2013)

How do you find a type 1 (aka what search terms do you use on eBay or where do you find them)?


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

On ebay or etsy put kirovskie watch, kirova watch or kirov watch


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## heimdalg (Apr 17, 2013)

Worzel said:


> Geoff, I don't see a difference between the dial color on your example and Lucidor's solid silver one. Does this raise a little doubt about your theory that they were issued to lower ranking officers - what with it being solid silver?


I examined the watch closely and I noticed that the number inscripted on the dial is 9437. It has the following inscriptions on the movement: 15 jewels, type 1, 4-9 and 27387 without any logo of the factory. The case back is inscripted TOCHMEH, RPT and MZ. I still don't know what material was used for the case. Any kind of help is welcomed.


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## mvmt (Dec 16, 2014)

Worzel said:


> Geoff, I don't see a difference between the dial color on your example and Lucidor's solid silver one. Does this raise a little doubt about your theory that they were issued to lower ranking officers - what with it being solid silver?


I'm not sure what to make of Lucidor's example to be honest. The dial looks clumsily re-lumed, which could be an indication he has an example of a military K43 without a lumed dial, otherwise if it was a lumed dial it should have lumed hands. The lack of lumed hands presents a bit of a mismatch with every other example of military stamped dials I have seen. It seems unlikely the hands themselves were replaced due to age, as the case itself and dial are in otherwise excellent condition.

It's a bit of a rabbit hole typical of these old Russian watches, we may never know the answer, but as it stands I'm not sure there really is much wisdom or knowledge in trying to make sense of that particular piece.


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

Greetings Comrade Worzel. This isn't my theory particularly, just information I've picked up from here and other forums. On comrade Lucidor's very lovely piece, I've not seen one in solid silver before. If this is a military issue dial, this may be a recase, maybe. ..


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## polmax3133 (Jun 13, 2011)

I just received this piece in the mail today:

















People's Commissariat of Heavy Industry
Kirov 1SWF
Precision Industry Association


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Worzel said:


> Does this raise a little doubt about your theory that they were issued to lower ranking officers - what with it being solid silver?


Interesting thought, and good question!

But couldn't it have simply been re-cased? That seems the most logical conclusion, I think. The lumed dial and non-lumed hands suggests somebody (probably many bodies) has tinkered with this watch in the past in one way or another...


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

WoW! what a beauty! where do you find this kind of watches polmax3133?


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## Luis965 (Aug 10, 2012)

Love this one Polmax! The movement is outstanding. Congrats!


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## polmax3133 (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks, guys! I've been an admirer of Mark Gordon's collection of Type-1 movements for quite some time and happened to notice this one for sale a few weeks ago, so I bought it. Lately I have been keeping a look out for these older pieces, but there are not too many in good condition and at a reasonable cost.


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

polmax3133 said:


> Thanks, guys! I've been an admirer of Mark Gordon's collection of Type-1 movements for quite some time and happened to notice this one for sale a few weeks ago, so I bought it. Lately I have been keeping a look out for these older pieces, but there are not too many in good condition and at a reasonable cost.


Incredible catch. Do you mind sharing where you found it?


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## polmax3133 (Jun 13, 2011)

mroatman said:


> Incredible catch. Do you mind sharing where you found it?


This was just a regular online purchase from a seller located in St Petersburg. Although not pristine, I imagine that for a good portion of it's existence the watch was well taken care of.


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Just noticed Phil has one in his collection as well:

http://www.netgrafik.ch/vintage1.htm


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## Worzel (Jul 12, 2010)

Geoff Adams said:


> Greetings Comrade Worzel. This isn't my theory particularly, just information I've picked up from here and other forums. On comrade Lucidor's very lovely piece, I've not seen one in solid silver before. If this is a military issue dial, this may be a recase, maybe. ..


Sorry Geoff, it wasn't my intention to put-down your suggestion, simply to question it in light of Lucidor's fine example. One problem with forums is that what members reasonably speculate about is often googled, copied and re-quoted elsewhere as fact.

I think the theory of numbered dials being military has merit, 'tank' clocks tend to have numbered dials. However, surely not all military dials, as that would have meant very long numbers. Perhaps the numbered ones were more significant.

As for the solid silver version, there is no reason to think it has been re-cased. Mark has one in his collection #0057 which he describes as, "Military-style case made from sterling silver; hallmarked. Rare & important early 'status' piece probably presented as an award or worn by a senior-level military officer." You'll see it has a similarly colored dial but does not have a number.


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## polmax3133 (Jun 13, 2011)

mroatman said:


> Just noticed Phil has one in his collection as well:
> 
> vintage1


Mark and Phil probably picked their pieces up 10 years ago for $20US a pop, and here we are paying 150 and up! :-d

That's why their collections will never be replicated. Mark had dozens of these pieces.

There seems to be an equal mix of older 7 and 15-jewel type-1 movements on the markets - maybe even more of the 15-jewel variety. I would imagine that lower ranking military personnel that actually needed a watch would receive a disposable 7-jewel watch, while higher-ranking officers/commanders would warrant a 15-jewel piece. The reason for so many 15-jewel pieces being still available is probably do to the fact that they can still be regulated to keep reasonable time, whereas the worn bearings on the 7-jewel pieces ensure the watch will forever be hopelessly out of sync.


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## Luis965 (Aug 10, 2012)

I have four Type 1 Pocket Watches (and would like to purchase one from factory number 5):

1MWF (1937)









2MWF (1939)









CHISTOPOL (1948)









ZLATOUST (1957)


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Lol965 said:


> I have four Type 1 Pocket Watches (and would like to purchase one from factory number 5):
> 
> 1MWF (1937)
> 
> ...


Very nice collection! Congrats!!

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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Here I bring you a Kirovskie watch ZIM factory from 1947. What can you tell me about this watch? This is the first time I see a Kirovskie made in Samara. It seems original to me. Factory ZIM.









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## Luis965 (Aug 10, 2012)

oskita89 said:


> Here I bring you a Kirovskie watch ZIM factory from 1947. What can you tell me about this watch? This is the first time I see a Kirovskie made in Samara. It seems original to me. Factory ZIM.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The movement should be in a case like this one:










It was simply rotated 90 degrees to fit the case you have.


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

Worzel said:


> Sorry Geoff, it wasn't my intention to put-down your suggestion, simply to question it in light of Lucidor's fine example. One problem with forums is that what members reasonably speculate about is often googled, copied and re-quoted elsewhere as fact.
> 
> I think the theory of numbered dials being military has merit, 'tank' clocks tend to have numbered dials. However, surely not all military dials, as that would have meant very long numbers. Perhaps the numbered ones were more significant.
> 
> As for the solid silver version, there is no reason to think it has been re-cased. Mark has one in his collection #0057 which he describes as, "Military-style case made from sterling silver; hallmarked. Rare & important early 'status' piece probably presented as an award or worn by a senior-level military officer." You'll see it has a similarly colored dial but does not have a number.


Hi Worzel - absolutely no problem I can assure you, I did not take your post untowardly - and you raise a good point. 

The discussion about these pieces that have stamps on the dial takes place in my thread https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/soviet-%91military-issue%92-ww2-black-dial-kirovskie-type-1-ca-1944-%91military-stamp%92-1731522.html

And earlier in this thread on the MWF forum: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?61145-Russian-WW2-Military-Watches

"On the dial must be a number. This number is recorded in the personal book of military, of the issued uniforms&#8230; With a black dial, for the generals, colonels, majors... With bright dial for military rank below. "

And there is some old military paperwork offered up as proof&#8230;

I can't read Russian, so I'm having to take it for granted that they've got their facts right&#8230; If not, then there probably needs to be a more thorough conversation...

For Mark Gordon's piece - I think we would need to see what evidence he bases his statement on.


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## DolleDolf (Mar 29, 2012)

93EXCivic said:


> How do you find a type 1 (aka what search terms do you use on eBay or where do you find them)?


Seller romantictime often has one

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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Lol965 said:


> The movement should be in a case like this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe the first watches made in ZIM Factory? Even before than Pobeda?

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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Well, I pulled the trigger. No doubt inspired by polmax' gorgeous example, I went on the hunt. Came across this one for a song, negotiated further with the seller, and a deal was struck. I'll show you "my" Type-1 even though I don't possess it yet. It's not the best example, but for a starter piece I'm thrilled. I'll make a full thread once it arrives.

I'm not sure if all the parts are correct for each other. The dial may not belong with the movement, but keener eyes could tell. I'm also unsure of the case...was this movement only found in a saucepan case or is a modified pocket watch case legitimate? Who knows if the crown is original to the movement but at least it's period.

Anyhow, enjoy 









































P.S. -- Anyone else find it funny the seller uses a $1 coin for size comparison? I've never seen one of these in real life, _ever_, so I have no idea what size it is. Close to a quarter, possibly? Maybe I should send him a quarter.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

A beautiful watch comrade! This was a pocket watch and someone turned it into a wrist one. Maybe the rest is original for me.


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## Luis965 (Aug 10, 2012)

Looks everything ok to me.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

After being looking for a 100% red army watch strap replica for months of my Kirovskie my friend did it for me! In a high quality leather strap!









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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

oskita89 said:


> After being looking for a 100% red army watch strap replica for months of my Kirovskie my friend did it for me! In a high quality leather strap!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whatta friend!! :-!


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## pmwas (Aug 20, 2010)

oskita89 said:


> Maybe the first watches made in ZIM Factory? Even before than Pobeda?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, the production of Lip licensed ZiM pocket watches commenced before the world war. They were made form late 1930s until 1950. Gilt and nickel plated versions, all 15j.


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## Ham2 (Nov 25, 2010)




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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

I had a looksie at this one. Temping, I'll admit, especially with the unusual branding. What's the scoop?


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## Worzel (Jul 12, 2010)

Not sure if my latest acquisition can be described as a K43 but it is a Type-1...


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## Ham2 (Nov 25, 2010)

mroatman said:


> I had a looksie at this one. Temping, I'll admit, especially with the unusual branding. What's the scoop?


 . Wish I knew  I haven't had a chance to dig into the history of these yet but Mark Gordon has a couple in his collection annotated as 'Congress of General Ministry of Industries'


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## liahim (Dec 21, 2012)




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## MayorM (Feb 13, 2014)

Here is mine K-43 for a really bad guys


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Hello comrades,

I bought a Kirovskie k43 from 1944 and Im worry about if the dial has still radiation. How can I see? could you guys help me?

Thank you very much!

View attachment 7209282
View attachment 7209290
View attachment 7209282


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

oskita89 said:


> Hello comrades,
> 
> I bought a Kirovskie k43 from 1944 and Im worry about if the dial has still radiation. How can I see? could you guys help me?
> 
> ...


Yes, the dial almost certainly has radium lume. If you don't want it, I'll take it off your hands.


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## Zany4 (Jul 22, 2015)

I just found this thread. All I can say is wow and I want one. I have the Vostok Retro K43 replica and will be on the lookout for an original. If the watches in this thread could only tell us their stories...


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## Karsten (Sep 28, 2008)

I have been following this great thread for a while, and last sunday evening when trawling ebay,
i stumbled over this "saucepan" from a german antiques seller.
I did not have the time for proper research of authencity, so i had to make a quick decision based on:

1. Relativly well preserved dial.
2. German seller, not specialized in watches (less risk for a "franken" than U....... seller?)
3. No taxes for me to pay, as i live in EU.

I bid, and got it for a fair price.

My first "saucepan" arrived in good condition, and is really ticking LOUD 

Judging from the factory stamp the movement is according to
russian_logos

Made in the:
HKM = Public commisariat for engeneering
1ry = First state watch factory
Moscow
Time frame: 1938 - 1940

The dial/hands and crown is looking more as after war from the Slatoustowsky factory
when looking at the picture of Lucidor's collection.

After all i might have bough a rather nice "franken" ?
I would be glad to get feedback from you experts here.
I guess the strap is newer than the watch, or is it from same time period ?


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

My Chistopolski gets a new strap:


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## iusanf (Apr 30, 2016)

What a beautiful watch Geoff, it is great to know that both watches were made at the same period of time! 2-1939 congrats!


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

Karsten said:


> I have been following this great thread for a while, and last sunday evening when trawling ebay,
> i stumbled over this "saucepan" from a german antiques seller.
> I did not have the time for proper research of authencity, so i had to make a quick decision based on:
> 
> ...


IMHO you've got a pretty good one. :-!

According to the stamp, it's a 3rd quarter 1938; and altough you'll be 100% sure only disassembling the bridges to check if serial numbers match on all parts, at first sight it looks like all the Geneva stripings are continuous -that could mean they are all originals. But in any case, as I always say, for watches this old and which have passed through those very hard times, one shouldn't apply the same judgement method used for -say- dress watches from the '60s.

As far as I can tell the dial is the typical military style, often seen on both pre- and post-war watches, sometimes lumed and sometimes not, sometimes coupled with cathedral (lumed) hands and sometimes not. What I am 99,99% sure of is that those hands are period correct, as the Zlatoustovski-style (or Chistopolski, too) you mention only appeared post-war: see Comrade Schnurrp's pictures above (btw: nice strap |> ) for comparison.

You "might" be right about the crown, I just couldn't tell. But if I were you I wouldn't give a damn about it. ;-)


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

Karsten said:


> I have been following this great thread for a while, and last sunday evening when trawling ebay,
> i stumbled over this "saucepan" from a german antiques seller.
> I did not have the time for proper research of authencity, so i had to make a quick decision based on:
> 
> ...


I have to agree with our good friend Comrade Straight_Time. I think concerns of this piece being incorrect can be put to bed. My opinion is this is a good one. And it's gorgeous! Many congratulations, wear and enjoy it in good health!


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

schnurrp said:


> My Chistopolski gets a new strap:


Beautiful strap. And interesting -- is it one piece or two?


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Karsten said:


> I have been following this great thread for a while, and last sunday evening when trawling ebay,
> i stumbled over this "saucepan" from a german antiques seller.
> I did not have the time for proper research of authencity, so i had to make a quick decision based on:


Hej Karsten,

Beautiful watch. It looks 100% original aside from the crown. I believe this crown belongs to a Chistopol Type-1, as in this photo.

I've actually been searching for one of these "pillow" crowns like yours for a while. And as it so happens, I have a few extra "onion" crowns that I believe are original to your watch.

If you are interested in trading, send me a PM :-! (I tried to send this message to you privately but couldn't)

















[P.S. -- I lived in Østed (15 km outside Roskilde) for 7 months while studying abroad in 2009. You can read about my time here. I miss Denmark!]


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## Karsten (Sep 28, 2008)

mroatman said:


> Hej Karsten,
> 
> Beautiful watch. It looks 100% original aside from the crown. I believe this crown belongs to a Chistopol Type-1, as in this photo.
> 
> ...


Good morning mroatman.

Thank you for feedback.

For some reason i am not permittet to send PM's or edit my posts.
My email is: krongaard "at" sport.dk
I will be out of house the whole day/ evening.

PS: You have caught many of the typical things from danish culture in your travel description.


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## Hanoi (May 11, 2016)

Hello, dear friends in addiction!

I introduce myself (and my Typ-1).
I'm from Belgium and I'm a active membre of Forum des Montres Russes.
I collect soviet watches only.
I wait a long time before coming here because my english is pretty poor...

So here my typ 1:



















What do you think


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

Very nice and early one, congrats :-!


Welcome to the forum!


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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

W elcome to the forum Comrade Hanoi, and a very nice piece to introduce yourself with! I really like the logo on the dial, only just visible, but there it is. Many congratulations on this piece!


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Congrats and welcome to this forum!!!


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Hanoi said:


> Hello, dear friends in addiction!
> 
> I introduce myself (and my Typ-1).
> I'm from Belgium and I'm a active membre of Forum des Montres Russes.
> ...


Beautiful piece, and please do not apologize for your English. It's perfect!

I have a similar piece in a different case. I think the dial logo is somewhat obscured by scratches and will show nicely if the crystal is polished.

Congratulations on a beautiful Type-1!


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## Hanoi (May 11, 2016)

Many thanks for the welcome.
I'll show my another "precious" (a Tokhmekh) in the right thread (when I'll find it).
It's nice to be here
I still waiting to long!


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## Schmurdjak (May 11, 2016)

Hello.
Sorry for the translation, I'm from Russia.
I will show a part of his collection.
Type 1, about 1932.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Can anyone shed light on this Kirovskie dial?










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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

mroatman said:


> Beautiful strap. And interesting -- is it one piece or two?


Better late then never, I suppose...it's one piece, comrade.


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

oskita89 said:


> Can anyone shed light on this Kirovskie dial?


As said in this thread, it's a custom-printed paper dial. ;-)


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## Schmurdjak (May 11, 2016)

oskita89 said:


> Can anyone shed light on this Kirovskie dial?


Hey.
The original, painted dials, very fragile and unreliable.
Part of the port and crumbled.
Spare parts and accessories in the workshops, were rare.
Therefore, the master did as best they could.
After World War II, often using the dials on the photo paper.
They are glued on top of the original.
Sometimes dobovlyaet inscriptions.
This face is the overlay repair 1947-1950 years ...


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

Hello comrades.

Yesterday I received another Kirovskie for the family. This time made in 1941 in the Second Moscow Watch Factory.

Original strap.









I know that the crown in not the original. I bought an original one from meshok.ru and is in the way to Spain.

Could anyone shed a bit of light about the dial? I opened and is 100% original but... Was in this kind of dial Rodium painting??

Is possible to take off the radium painting from an old watch?

As far as I know this kind of dial with this kind of hands never had rodium in the numbers.

But I would like to know the opinion and experience of all the comrades in WUS.

Thanks in advance!









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## Geoff Adams (Dec 8, 2013)

Personally I can see no sign of radium lume on this watch. A very beautiful piece, many congratulations!


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

No radium there, but what a lovely original strap. Hang on to that one!


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

mroatman said:


> No radium there, but what a lovely original strap. Hang on to that one!


I will keep it healthy!! 

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## EZM1 (May 28, 2009)

Should be on my wrist any day now. Looks to be a relaunched 2MWF Type-1. Date stamp on movement 2-43. I can just make out issued stamp marks on the radium dial. Strap looks interesting. Any idea if its original? Or would they likely use leather instead..?

Photos courtesy of the seller.

Thanks for looking.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

EZM1 said:


> Should be on my wrist any day now. Looks to be a relaunched 2MWF Type-1. Date stamp on movement 2-43. I can just make out issued stamp marks on the radium dial. Strap looks interesting. Any idea if its original? Or would they likely use leather instead..?
> 
> Photos courtesy of the seller.
> 
> Thanks for looking.


For my eyes is 100% original! Radioactive dials always scared me even if it is inside the glass and all that stories about that nothing happens if you don't open and expose right with the dial.

For me what contain rodium will be always a danger for my health and for my surrounding people.

About the strap, check my last post and you will see the original leather strap used in the battle.

Always leather strap.

Grab it before another do it! Great watch comrade!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

I particulary use this leather one from a seller in etsy.com









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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

EZM1 said:


> Should be on my wrist any day now. Looks to be a relaunched 2MWF Type-1. Date stamp on movement 2-43. I can just make out issued stamp marks on the radium dial. Strap looks interesting. Any idea if its original? Or would they likely use leather instead..?
> 
> Photos courtesy of the seller.
> 
> Thanks for looking.


The strap is just a generic nato. But oh my, that watch. That is a very rare piece in phenomenal overall condition. Congratulations!

More pictures upon arrival, please!


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

I'd say 99% original, because of the 2nd Watch Factory-style balance assembly (bridge&wheel) on a 1st State Watch movement. 
But I wouldn't cry franken at all, being that one of those honest repairs needed to have a watch working again, and not meant to make money by deceiving buyers (as it usually happens, to name one, when you see late-30s 1SWF Kirowa dials coupled with early 50s Zlatoust movements).
Great catch, congrats! :-!


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## slls (Apr 21, 2013)

Straight_time said:


> I'd say 99% original, because of the 2nd Watch Factory-style balance assembly (bridge&wheel) on a 1st State Watch movement.
> But I wouldn't cry franken at all, being that one of those honest repairs needed to have a watch working again, and not meant to make money by deceiving buyers (as it usually happens, to name one, when you see late-30s 1SWF Kirowa dials coupled with early 50s Zlatoust movements).
> Great catch, congrats! :-!


What I see is a 2nd MWF / Chistopol watch factory Type-1 (due to the dial I think a Chistopol) with a Zlatoust Watch Factory barrel wheel bridge.

The Zlatoust Watch Factory continued producing Type-1 watches. Between 4-41 and 1951 no logo was used at all. 
See my article: https://www.watchuseek.com/f54/ever...-1-watch-including-service-guide-3300858.html


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

Sorry Comrade but I'd tend to disagree, unless I am seriously missing something the watch shown above can't positively have a 2ndMWF movement IMHO.

You serviced one of them in your guide, so should have noticed that -apart from the most obvious and evident signs, such as the markings (writing vs. circular logo) and the ratchet wheel click- the pallet fork bridge's shape differs a lot from 1stSWF ones.

Please have a look at the pictures below and notice that also the holes on the main plate are in different positions, making those parts definitely *not interchangeable*.

















This is an enlargement of Comrade EZM1's watch, no doubt the pallet fork bridge is 1stSWF style. 
The balance bridge with its golden disk is 2ndMWF/853/Chistopol style instead, it should be quite safe to say it isn't a Zlatoust.


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## EZM1 (May 28, 2009)

Perhaps what Comrade Hans (SLLS) meant is that it's 2MWF Chistopol built Type-1 with 1stSWF / Zlatoust base movement...? Excavated wheels & gold disc balance bridge being 2MWF as mentioned.

Watch finally arrived & manage to take couple pics only. Wasn't able to pop movement out of the pan for pics. Dial started giving me the heebie jeebies.







Side by side next to WWII German issued Minerva dienstuhr DH watch. Huge difference. Those poor Russkies. The Germans would have heard them coming a mile away.


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## oscarfranciscovich (Mar 7, 2015)

EZM1 said:


> Perhaps what Comrade Hans (SLLS) meant is that it's 2MWF Chistopol built Type-1 with 1stSWF / Zlatoust base movement...? Excavated wheels & gold disc balance bridge being 2MWF as mentioned.
> 
> Watch finally arrived & manage to take couple pics only. Wasn't able to pop movement out of the pan for pics. Dial started giving me the heebie jeebies.


I had almost the same watch and dial than you. You can check in this thread.

It was with me less than 24 hours... I sent back to the seller because of the rodium stuff...

I just prefer to live calm knowing that I don't have.

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## EZM1 (May 28, 2009)

Know what you mean Comrade. Maybe I will pull it out on 9th of May only. Victory Day.


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## slls (Apr 21, 2013)

Straight_time said:


> You serviced one of them in your guide, so should have noticed that -apart from the most obvious and evident signs, such as the markings (writing vs. circular logo) and the ratchet wheel click- the pallet fork bridge's shape differs a lot from 1stSWF ones.


Absolutely an interesting detail which I should add to my guide!


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

EZM1 said:


> Know what you mean Comrade. Maybe I will pull it out on 9th of May only. Victory Day.


Or if you ever decide it's too unsafe to keep, you know who to contact 

Watches of the USSR: Dashiell's Collection


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## Worzel (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: Show your Kirovskie k43 type-1*

Just scrapes into the title description - my (Korea War era) gun camera clock newly converted.


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## herdingwetcats (Jun 5, 2016)

Dear Comrade Worzel--I'be wanted a gun camera clock for a long time, but have been puzzled about how to wear it. Your strap is magnificent!! Where did you get it? If not too much trouble, could you post. few more pictures from different angles? Thanks so much for sharing, I can't even say)


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## T4VI (Sep 10, 2015)

Can you say how old is this watch?


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

Look at the circular stamp on the left, that's where the 2nd Watch Factory put the production date: in your example, 1939. ;-)

Other than the big wheel, which had been likely replaced, it seems a fully original and nicely preserved one.


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## T4VI (Sep 10, 2015)

Hah, I was pretty sure that it means that, but, just to be sure. It's not (sadly) my watch.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

T4VI said:


> Can you say how old is this watch?


I couldn't say, but the watch itself is saying "1939"...


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## Hanoi (May 11, 2016)

Dear friends in addiction, hello!

Here's my second K-43

ЧК-6 N° 499451 for Chistopol

Very common combinaison dial/mecanism


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## Hanoi (May 11, 2016)

I forget: made in july 1948
(pictures of the seller)


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## kinaed (Feb 20, 2006)

Some of mine:








-k


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## SennaGTS (Sep 15, 2012)

Yes, I definitely want one.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Kinaed is back! :-d


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## OKEAH (May 13, 2006)

Chascomm said:


> Kinaed is back! :-d


...with the best pieces in the neighbourhood, just like in the good old days!


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

OKEAH said:


> ...with the best pieces in the neighbourhood, just like in the good old days!


You can say that again, comrade. I've never seen so many desirable watches in such good condition. Magic!


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## KoperViking (Oct 1, 2017)

Hi Kirovskie friends!

First of all, I must mention that i "Like" all your K-43's. They're amazing historic timepieces.

Here's my 1'st State Watch Factory, made 2'nd quarter, 1937. It's keeping very good time. 
Also same from an old newspaper..


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## KoperViking (Oct 1, 2017)

Addition; movement, same watch.


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## meyasrodos (May 15, 2018)

Hallo Kirovskie fans, I recently purchased this watch, I couldn't resist, I am not a collector (yet), if anyone could comment and help me with his thoughts it would be awesome!.. (authentic or not I love it)









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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

meyasrodos said:


> authentic or not I love it


Unfortunately 'not' -- but that you seem happy is all that matters.

Welcome to the forum!


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## meyasrodos (May 15, 2018)

mroatman said:


> Unfortunately 'not' -- but that you seem happy is all that matters.
> 
> Welcome to the forum!


All of it is not?? And mechanism and everything else??? Bummer..

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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

meyasrodos said:


> All of it is not?? And mechanism and everything else??? Bummer..


The case and crown look like they belong to a First State Watch Factory watch from the 1940s. The movement is from Zlatoust Watch Factory, produced sometime later, probably in the 1960s. The dial is modern, probably manufactured in the last few years; you could call it a counterfeit. I don't recognize the hands, but I'm guessing they're modern as well.

In all, I'd call it a franken with a fake dial :/


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## meyasrodos (May 15, 2018)

mroatman said:


> The case and crown look like they belong to a First State Watch Factory watch from the 1940s. The movement is from Zlatoust Watch Factory, produced sometime later, probably in the 1960s. The dial is modern, probably manufactured in the last few years; you could call it a counterfeit. I don't recognize the hands, but I'm guessing they're modern as well.
> 
> In all, I'd call it a franken with a fake dial :/


Ok thanks for the information. I will be more careful next time.

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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

meyasrodos said:


> Ok thanks for the information. I will be more careful next time.


Don't worry, we've all been there.

Next time, feel free to post here before you buy. There are lots of friendly and helpful people who can make sure you get something authentic, if that's what you're after.


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## mike.s (Feb 23, 2009)




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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

mike.s said:


> View attachment 13159249


The gentlemen on the front of that newspaper look like they could use some wild strawberries....


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## mike.s (Feb 23, 2009)

It's Kiev, baby  though this pic is from last summer, I did spend 5 out of 6 winter months in Kiev. No, I don't know why. 

Re. The language skills. I learned a new word today in this thread, so...


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## KoperViking (Oct 1, 2017)

(Never mind, deleted.)


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## bpmurray (Mar 15, 2017)

Thanks to 707mm2 for resurrecting this thread by linking to it!

Here is mine -- dial stamp number Д8607, movement dated 3-43.


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## 707mm2 (Aug 23, 2018)

> Thanks to 707mm2 for resurrecting this thread by linking to it!


You're welcome  And beautiful watch !


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## miquel99 (Jun 17, 2018)

Mine


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## miquel99 (Jun 17, 2018)

just another one, from the 2 factory


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## LFCJari37 (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi all I am very keen to get one of these beauties, is this one ok?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-WW2-Kirovskie-1GChZ-soviet-military-wrist-watch-1938-original-dial/302989927185?hash=item468b9b6311:g:2~UAAOSws-tbFFYq:rk:48f:0


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## PanKorop (Jul 21, 2018)

miquel99 said:


> just another one, from the 2 factory


I found them hard to read, then learnt they're knee watches. Swapped the limb, and it got readable when sitting, but hard to wear when standing.


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

LFCJari37 said:


> Hi all I am very keen to get one of these beauties, is this one ok?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-WW2-Kirovskie-1GChZ-soviet-military-wrist-watch-1938-original-dial/302989927185?hash=item468b9b6311:g:2~UAAOSws-tbFFYq:rk:48f:0



















The movement looks OK; I believe though that hands and case don't belong to 1GChZ, they're more likely from Chistopol.

Not major issues really, and they might even be easily fixed if deemed; so I was about to write "if you like it the way it is, go for it anyway" when noticed the price... this drastically changed my view: of course it's your money, but personally for 165 bucks shipped I'd go looking for an example which raises no yellow flags at all. :think:


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## LFCJari37 (Feb 4, 2007)

Straight_time said:


> The movement looks OK; I believe though that hands and case don't belong to 1GChZ, they're more likely from Chistopol.
> 
> Not major issues really, and they might even be easily fixed if deemed; so I was about to write "if you like it the way it is, go for it anyway" when noticed the price... this drastically changed my view: of course it's your money, but personally for 165 bucks shipped I'd go looking for an example which raises no yellow flags at all. :think:


Thankyou very much for your help, I will continue to look for a real one


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## LFCJari37 (Feb 4, 2007)

Next question! 
Where would I get a nice strap for one please?


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## smat (Mar 25, 2018)

Hello guys! What are your opinions on this piece?

I honestly find it a little strange it has the cathedral lume hands, but the face numbers aren't lumed. However, going through this thread it seems as if there are so many variations of this watch. What do the experts think?


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## smat (Mar 25, 2018)

Hello guys! What are your opinions on this piece?

I honestly find it a little strange it has the cathedral lume hands, but the face numbers aren't lumed. However, going through this thread it seems as if there are so many variations of this watch. What do the experts think?

View attachment 13800067


View attachment 13800071


View attachment 13800073


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## LFCJari37 (Feb 4, 2007)

Gents, a question. I now have a Type 1 but am waiting for a strap before I take photos. How many hours power reserve should it have?


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## EZM1 (May 28, 2009)

Thought I'd revive an old thread. Recently picked up a silver cased 2MWF Type 1 from a seller in Russia, took 4 mths to arrive. I had given up hope thinking it was forever lost but here it is


http://imgur.com/a/XtHpWsJ


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## Tianlung4028 (May 23, 2021)

Hi everyone! I'm new here and I've just recently started collecting Soviet watches. I've been hunting for one for a while and pulled the trigger on one recently. Here is my Type 1.
I'd love your opinions, I tried to do as much research as I could. What's interesting is that although the dial says First Moscow Watch Factory there isn't a stamp on the movement but then again it was 3/1941 which was right before the evacuation to Zlatoust. Could it be that it just wasn't stamped due to the evacuation?























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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

Tianlung4028 said:


> Hi everyone! I'm new here and I've just recently started collecting Soviet watches. I've been hunting for one for a while and pulled the trigger on one recently. Here is my Type 1.
> I'd love your opinions, I tried to do as much research as I could. What's interesting is that although the dial says First Moscow Watch Factory there isn't a stamp on the movement but then again it was 3/1941 which was right before the evacuation to Zlatoust. Could it be that it just wasn't stamped due to the evacuation?
> 
> 
> ...


Nice watch. Yes, some watches in evacuation has no stamps at all. All they care is to start producing watches again and a few missing stamps were not such a big deal.


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