# is fp journe high end?



## insaneguy88 (Mar 9, 2014)

some debate and think it's only for the "in the know". Imho, I don't see it. it certainly isn't at the same level as far as haute horology as some others, but if you had 10-15k budget, r u honestly gonna splurge on fp journe, when you, yourself can get something either, brand new, or mint pre-owned pp, breguet, ap, vc, jlc, als? to each his own... just saying.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

insaneguy88 said:


> *some debate and think it's only for the "in the know"*. Imho, I don't see it. it certainly isn't at the same level as far as haute horology as some others, but if you had 10-15k budget, *r u honestly gonna splurge on fp journe, when you, yourself can get something either, brand new, or mint pre-owned pp, breguet, ap, vc, jlc, als? to each his own*...* just saying.*


Just saying: And so you have....

Would I "splurge" on an FPJ in light of the alternatives you presented?I might. The reality is that I probably won't buy an FPJ CB not because the alternatives you mentioned exist, but because I just don't want one. At least right now I don't.​
"In the Know"
Who's made that argument? It's one I haven't seen, but I'd be interested in seeing any well ordered case on the matter. I think that an FPJ is a watch that a typical well to do consumer who lacks a special interest in watches will not discover. I think that because FPJ has a comparatively limited distribution network and he has very small production quantities. It's true that FPJ has a target customer in mind, but I doubt that he gives a damn at all about who actually buys his watches. Given the small nature of his business and the high quality of his work, he doesn't need to spend huge sums promoting himself or his products. Watches aren't like medical treatments; their applicability and usefulness isn't limited to very specific groups.​
Perhaps the germane question to ask is why would a person who doesn't give a damn about watches spend $20K on any watch, FPJ or otherwise? One can posit all sorts of reasons, impose one's own strengths and weaknesses on those reasons and on the presumed buyers, and even invoke the rationale of multiple social sciences, but at the end of the day, the answer is because they can.

All the best.

We often take for granted the notion that some people are insiders, while others are outsiders. But such a notion is a social contrivance, that, like virtually every public construct, is a legacy of a primordial and tribal mentality.
- Jamake Highwater


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## drhr (Mar 14, 2011)

insaneguy88 said:


> some debate and think it's only for the "in the know". Imho, I don't see it. it certainly isn't at the same level as far as haute horology as some others,* but if you had 10-15k budget, r u honestly gonna splurge on fp journe, when you, yourself can get something either, brand new, or mint pre-owned pp, breguet, ap, vc, jlc, als? to each his own... just saying*.


Dunno (and really don't care)'bout the high-end-ness but I've done the splurge on other brands like ochs und junior, Hentschel, Zeitwinkel, etc all the while passing on those you mention. You are correct, to each his own . . .


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

Im still not sure if this is a troll thread (i wont say it is) but for now, im just going to mention that as far as i know...$10k-$15k wont even get you a pre-owned FPJ. So yea...

I agree, to each their own


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## insaneguy88 (Mar 9, 2014)

tony20009 said:


> Just saying: And so you have....
> 
> "In the Know"Who's made that argument?​




Talking Watches With J.J. Redick - YouTube​


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

insaneguy88 said:


> Talking Watches With J.J. Redick - YouTube[/INDENT]


Okay. I watched the video. It was a nice enough one to watch.

I heard Clymer mention that FPJ is a watch that not just anyone is going to get. I also understand the context for that statement:

Not many pieces made annually...something like ~400 for the CB that JJ has.
FPJ hasn't produced a print ad in ages
Limited distribution: there just aren't that many cities that have a watch store that sells FPJ

The fact remains that if some well funded person wanders into a boutique that does have FPJ, they may well buy one; there's a lot to like about an FPJ. It's unlikely that, not being especially into watches, that same person would have walked in asking for an FPJ. Moreover, a good salesperson is more than capable of building interest in one -- and the watch is quite capable of holding a person interest -- if s/he has a wealthy customer there asking for input.

I can't see Mr. Clymer's comment as being any more than a reflection of those facts.

All the best.

"Is everyone who lives in Ignorance like you?" asked Milo. 
"Much worse," he said longingly. "But I don't live here. I'm from a place very far away called Context."
- Norton Juster, _The Phantom Tollbooth _

PS
That book -- _The Phantom Tollbooth _-- brings back many fond memories of days of fun an frolic as a kid in school. The specific quote didn't resonate much for me in the second grade when we had to read that book, but I loved the story overall.
- T


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

Clearly high end and haute horlogerie. It's not something that some rich guy just picks up, if you don't know high end watches would you even have heard of FP Journe? Who would even own one of these that wasn't WIS?? I suppose one could be gifted to you… (now wouldn't that be nice!!) ;-)


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

tony20009 said:


> Not many pieces made annually...something like ~400 for the CB that JJ has.


More like 150 for the CB, 900 pieces in total per year. Sorry, I found a need to correct that as it is one of the reasons FPJ seems to stand out to the crowd.


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

insaneguy88 said:


> some debate and think it's only for the "in the know". Imho, I don't see it. it certainly isn't at the same level as far as haute horology as some others, but if you had 10-15k budget, r u honestly gonna splurge on fp journe, when you, yourself can get something either, brand new, or mint pre-owned pp, breguet, ap, vc, jlc, als? to each his own... just saying.


While I clearly agree that PP, VC, AP, ALS, Breguet are indisputably high end, I disagree with your assertion that FP Journe does not produce pieces of this level. While these brands definitely produce incredible watches, there also are clearly any number of pieces made by these vaunted brands that are not as well finished as what FP Journe produces in my estimation. What keeps FP Journe from being commonly mentioned with these brands is lack of a huge catalog of variety and complications (and large volume sales) that these brands offer. However, what FP Journe produces is clearly high end. FP Journe is not alone in this category either.

When I decided to order my RGM, I considered the AP Royal Oak and PP Aquanaut. While I liked both of these (and still do), I just felt like I was getting a lot more value in handcrafted detailing, movement complication and detailing, and rose engine turned guilloche going with RGM. Some people might choose Journe (and other brands) for the same reason when choosing a high end watch. You may be able to obtain a better finished watch for the price by looking to independent companies instead of big names. For example, The FP Journe Bleu is an impressive watch and can be had at a price of an Aquanaut. While the Aquanaut is a great watch, it's not in the same league as the Journe in finish for the price.


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## The Naf (Mar 31, 2012)

High End without a doubt. People all have various definitions of High end so these sorts of arguments rarely ever get consensus. However, I think you would be extremely hard pressed to find *anyone* (aside from yourself) on here who would not consider FPJ High end.

Lets consider one of the brands you mentioned as being High End viz breguet. It's always hard to compare with online pictures... never the less if you through the High End Section you'll come accross two threads. One with decent macro pictures of a Breguet movement (here) and one with decent pictuires of an FPJ (here). Have a look and compare them. Compare some of the "hallmarks" of haute horology with particular refrence to anglage, polishing, execution of geneva stripes etc. If anything I'd say the FPJ was *better *finished than the Breguet.

I'm not sure about your definition but for me one of the crucial ingredients is a certain level of movement related finishing and this to me is best exemplified by beautiful anglage. Yes there are other aspects of course but anglage is usually the most easily identifiable due to it's lack of presence in any non-high end movement (due to the difficulty of execution). Have a look at the Journe movement again. Beautiful anglage. Now if *that's* not high end then neither is the breguet (in terms of movement).


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## aardvarkbark (Oct 27, 2010)

They gotta be. They use actual 18k gold rotors as door handles at their boutiques. Now who other than a high end brand would do that?


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## The Naf (Mar 31, 2012)

aardvarkbark said:


> They gotta be. They use actual 18k gold rotors as door handles at their boutiques. Now who other than a high end brand would do that?
> 
> View attachment 1430601


Looks like you just found the "funds" for my very first High End purchase :-D


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

aardvarkbark said:


> They gotta be. They use actual 18k gold rotors as door handles at their boutiques. Now who other than a high end brand would do that?


What?


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

aardvarkbark said:


> They gotta be. They use actual 18k gold rotors as door handles at their boutiques. Now who other than a high end brand would do that?
> 
> View attachment 1430601
> 
> ...








































Aardvarkbark, I think that's enough gold that you can share some after you hijack those doors. I have a friend with a boat and two with planes. For a reasonable cut on the take, I can help you get them out of the country quietly. LOL


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

What you need is a two or three man team. Get a couple fall guys to run out the door with the watches and when everyone chases them, the other guy goes to work on those doors… ;-)


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

aardvarkbark said:


> They gotta be. They use actual 18k gold rotors as door handles at their boutiques. Now who other than a high end brand would do that?
> 
> View attachment 1430601


Louis XVI would have liked these. I think he might have been a FP Journe type of guy&#8230; that's gotta make em high end&#8230; ;-)


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

There's your answer! FPJ is high-end because he so smart and wealthy he uses real gold for a door handle that is openly available for the public to take (but our mothers told us not to)


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## The Naf (Mar 31, 2012)

AbuKalb93 said:


> There's your answer! FPJ is high-end because he so smart and wealthy he uses real gold for a door handle that is openly available for the public to take (but our mothers told us not to)


Speak for yourself sir! I do not recall a single instance where my mother told me not to steal the 18k gold door handles at one of F.P. Journes Boutiques. So I guess it'll just be mpalmer, aaardvarkbark, Tony and his friend and I...

No wait...how about you be the fall guy? That way you can get your grubby mits on as many of those FP Journe pieces as you like (albeit your joy will be short lived). Unless your mother also said something about not stealing FP Journe pieces only be caught red handed...:-/


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

mpalmer said:


> Louis XVI would have liked these. I think he might have been a FP Journe type of guy&#8230; that's gotta make em high end&#8230; ;-)


LOL....He'd have liked them until he figured out someone might decide to use them to cut off his head. LOL


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## Mr.Sam Patek (Feb 24, 2012)

insaneguy88 said:


> some debate and think it's only for the "in the know". Imho, I don't see it. it certainly isn't at the same level as far as haute horology as some others, but if you had 10-15k budget, r u honestly gonna splurge on fp journe, when you, yourself can get something either, brand new, or mint pre-owned pp, breguet, ap, vc, jlc, als? to each his own... just saying.


Does this help clear up your confusion? (Not mine)


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

I was fortunate enough to have held a T10 last month... Its a real work of art


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

10-15k budget?

FP Journe is only 10-15k?


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## aardvarkbark (Oct 27, 2010)

The Naf said:


> ....So I guess it'll just be mpalmer, aaardvarkbark, Tony and his friend and I...


Yeah, so, about that plan...









Why don't you guys take on the door handle removal project, I'll go to Basel, and we'll compare notes next week!


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## Crunchy (Feb 4, 2013)

How about you answer this question instead.

How can FPJ be NOT high end?


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## omeglycine (Jan 21, 2011)




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## ilikebigbutts (Feb 27, 2013)

I'd say in terms of movement finish FPJ is on par with Omega and Rolex. The only reason we entertain it in f2 is because we like to have Abu around, really.


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

ilikebigbutts said:


> I'd say in terms of movement finish FPJ is on par with Omega and Rolex. The only reason we entertain it in f2 is because we like to have Abu around, really.


Not sure if serious..


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

ilikebigbutts said:


> I'd say in terms of movement finish FPJ is on par with Omega and Rolex. The only reason we entertain it in f2 is because we like to have Abu around, really.


On par with what now???!!!!!

What is going on with this forum!!! Someone please shoot me now!! REALLY!!! OMEGA and ROLEX!! I thought this was a joke but its just too painful to laugh! Out of all the brands you choose Omega and Rolex!!?!


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## johnperregaux (Dec 6, 2012)

Local watch boutique had an FPJ in one of their cases. I matched it up side by side to one of their Oris watches. They seemed pretty close to the same finishings. 

Kidding. 

What is this nonsense, shut down this thread!! hahaha


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

You look at the technologies it invents, the level at which it finishes its watches, the price it asks and the market it is having, it is undisputably high end. But if you look at the oldest FPJ out there, it is only 15 years old, you have rights to double how it is going to be doing in next few decades. Guess the discussion here about it is going to be more justifiable when the times of ours come


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

You mean you don't plan to trade that Journe Bleu in for a Planet Ocean any time soon?&#8230; ;-)



AbuKalb93 said:


> On par with what now???!!!!!
> 
> What is going on with this forum!!! Someone please shoot me now!! REALLY!!! OMEGA and ROLEX!! I thought this was a joke but its just too painful to laugh! Out of all the brands you choose Omega and Rolex!!?!


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## systemcrasher (Aug 10, 2012)

lol FP Journe.... lol

On par with Rolex and Omega!! ROFL lol lol


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## Hatman14 (Dec 6, 2012)

shnjb said:


> 10-15k budget?
> 
> FP Journe is only 10-15k?


Maybe that's just for the strap?


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## Mr.Sam Patek (Feb 24, 2012)

insaneguy88 said:


> some debate and think it's only for the "in the know". Imho, I don't see it. it certainly isn't at the same level as far as haute horology as some others, but if you had 10-15k budget, r u honestly gonna splurge on fp journe, when you, yourself can get something either, brand new, or mint pre-owned pp, breguet, ap, vc, jlc, als? to each his own... just saying.


I also have been wondering if a Ferrari is a high end auto. Why would I spend $15,000 on a Ferrari when I could have a Ford Focus for the same price? Just saying...


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## ilikebigbutts (Feb 27, 2013)

AbuKalb93 said:


> On par with what now???!!!!!
> 
> What is going on with this forum!!! Someone please shoot me now!! REALLY!!! OMEGA and ROLEX!! I thought this was a joke but its just too painful to laugh! Out of all the brands you choose Omega and Rolex!!?!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

I have been absent for a while. But questions like this one make me want to stay away and not come back. How can FPJ not be high end? To me if you go find a dictionary and find high end watchmaking you find 3 letters: "FPJ". I don't think there is a need to go into why.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

jforozco said:


> I have been absent for a while. But *questions like this one make me want to stay away* and not come back. How can FPJ not be high end? To me if you go find a dictionary and find high end watchmaking you find 3 letters: "FPJ". I don't think there is a need to go into why.


I'm with you about having no patience with this sort of question.

I saw the thread title appear in the HE Watches thread list and I thought, "Oh, Dear God, that's not starting again, is it?" Then I saw the date and blessedly realized this is an old thread. LOL

All the best.


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## malioil (May 7, 2011)

Is Lange high end? 






(kidding...)


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## mudmud (May 18, 2014)

It certainly is now.... 😂


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## Mediocre (Oct 27, 2013)

sidneyc said:


> It certainly is now.... 😂


It was when this thread was created as well. No idea why this thread existed or surpassed 1 response


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## DoraTheExplorerII (Dec 12, 2014)

Sure FPJ do ok in auctions but they’re no JLC!!!!


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## sieglo (Nov 3, 2019)

Awesome thread resurrection.


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## Paul_MD (Feb 9, 2015)

Fast forward 7 years and this thread is hilarious. 

Reads like someone wondering if the "book of faces" website in Boston would ever amount to anything circa 2009.


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