# Kind of in a bind here...forum member holding onto two of my watches.



## IanC

First of all, i apologize if this isn't the correct place to post this.

Approximately 5 months ago, i sent a forum member two watches because he wanted to take photos and do a review. Shortly after i sent him the watches, he said he was now working two jobs and studying part time, and didn't have time to do it at the moment. Fast forward 5 months later, and he still hasn't done anything except hold onto the watches. He's said two or three times that he would be doing it on his day off, but something always seems to come up. Last contact i have with him is over a week ago. Now i just want him to send the watches to someone who will actually do the review, but he's not responding anymore.

I'm not sure where to go from here, because sending PMs every few days likely isn't going to help. I still have his name and address...but not being in the US, i can't exactly drive up there and knock on his door. I don't even know if i can lodge a police report as a last resort as i'm not in the US. Anyone have any suggestions on how to recover the watches?

Edit : I should add that the watches aren't super valuable, they are affordables under $150.


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## micreyes11

doesn't look too good... you might want to bring this up in the feedback and reputation forum...


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## Jeffza

I think you should let the forum know who this scumbag is. If he's near Ottawa, Ontario, send me a PM.


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## KTMracer

You'll do a favor to the forum by posting his name. Generous of you to loan those watches, but I wouldn't have done that. What brand/model of watches are they?


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## IanC

The forum member involved just responded and sent me the pictures he took...hopefully i will be able to get him to send the watches to someone else.

Some pictures of the watches involved (Which he took) :


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## svenstauber

IanC said:


> The forum member involved just responded and sent me the pictures he took...hopefully i will be able to get him to send the watches to someone else.
> 
> Some pictures of the watches involved (Which he took) :


Not good enough...five months? You should really out this member, I am new here, but this is ridiculous, it would so the forum a great service as perhaps we should not deal with this individual. If member in question is in the South Carolina low-country I will gladly retrieve the watches and send them back to you.


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## IanC

I know what you mean, but i don't want people to PM him about this, because he might decide to simply hold onto the watches....it's a difficult situation.

Said forum member lives in Wisconsin btw.


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## Jeffza

That sucks. I wish he was in Ottawa.


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## IanC

Well, he's responded, but now he wants me to pay the shipping fee + $20 for tracking. This sounds pretty high to me for two watches...anyone have experience shipping watches within the US before?


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## floydfan33

IanC said:


> Well, he's responded, but now he wants me to pay the shipping fee + $20 for tracking. This sounds pretty high to me for two watches...anyone have experience shipping watches within the US before?


If he's a member here he'll see this thread so I'll suggest that he should send it back prepaid, and thank his lucky stars you're considerate enough not to out him here.


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## tomjoad

floydfan33 said:


> If he's a member here he'll see this thread so I'll suggest that he should send it back prepaid, and thank his lucky stars you're considerate enough not to out him here.


Agreed. That is absolutely a ludicrous to ask a forum member who loaned you two watches over an extended period of time, was patient while you dilly dallied (the most appropriate way to put it), and still was kind enough not to publicly embarrass you here on WUS, asking only for his property back.

The nerve of some people.

To the OP, I would recommend that you not pay for shipping. If anything he should also throw in some gift cards to a restaurant as a way to smooth things over.


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## IanC

floydfan33 said:


> If he's a member here he'll see this thread so I'll suggest that he should send it back prepaid, and thank his lucky stars you're considerate enough not to out him here.


Sorry for the late reply, i was dealing with some issues over the past week.

Here is the response he sent me :

"There's paypal fee on the receiving side plus I have to drive out to the post office and that's not my normal route.

I don't know what you're whining about. I only agreed to take photograph and I never agree to do a review."

It doesn't look like he's going to agree to ship the watches without getting some money from me at least. I offered to pay him $15 to cover the cost of a priority flat rate medium box, delivery confirmation, and the cost of driving there......let's see what he says.

I seriously doubt he reads this forum though...i'm pretty sure most people on WUS don't.


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## Monocrom

IanC said:


> Well, he's responded, but now he wants me to pay the shipping fee + $20 for tracking. This sounds pretty high to me for two watches...anyone have experience shipping watches within the US before?


If there was a shred of doubt that the guy was a scumbag before, that just eliminated any of it.


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## Uwe W.

Sorry, but I can't quite wrap my head around why you would send two watches half way around the world just to have a few photos taken of them - or why this person in Wisconsin would offer to do it in the first place. 

Are you a watch dealer looking for exposure? Did you not establish ahead of time who would pay for what in the loan agreement? Is the person you sent the watches to a professional photographer or journalist? This situation is at the very least peculiar.

Personally, I'd give him his $20 and get your watches back. And consider it the cost of a lesson learned. If you want a proper review of a watch you should send it to a professional with experience in the watch field and a track record of reliability. 

Finally, as others have suggested here, you would be performing a valuable service by posting this member's user name. I know that I wouldn't want to deal with this character in the Sales Forum based on your version of what has happened so far. And don't worry about not receiving your watches if you do expose him. You do have his real name and address as a backup and there's always something that can be done with that information should he decide not to return your property.


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## WnS

I'm curious as to watch type of person would pull this kind of stunt.

Did he link you to his watch blog? If so did it seem reputable? And finally, how high was his WUS post count roughly?


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## tomjoad

Uwe W. said:


> Sorry, but I can't quite wrap my head around why you would send two watches half way around the world just to have a few photos taken of them - or why this person in Wisconsin would offer to do it in the first place.
> 
> Are you a watch dealer looking for exposure? Did you not establish ahead of time who would pay for what in the loan agreement? Is the person you sent the watches to a professional photographer or journalist? This situation is at the very least peculiar.
> 
> Personally, I'd give him his $20 and get your watches back. And consider it the cost of a lesson learned. If you want a proper review of a watch you should send it to a professional with experience in the watch field and a track record of reliability.
> 
> Finally, as others have suggested here, you would be performing a valuable service by posting this member's user name. I know that I wouldn't want to deal with this character in the Sales Forum based on your version of what has happened so far. And don't worry about not receiving your watches if you do expose him. You do have his real name and address as a backup and there's always something that can be done with that information should he decide not to return your property.


I get what your saying, but if a guy on the forum who had reviewed other members watches, I'd prob agree to do it for watches of only $150 like the OP did. I'd think that he obviously was serious and wouldn't f- me over. Naive? Maybe. But regardless, this guy the OP is referring to is a scumbag, plain and simple.

I don't see the point in beating the OP up. We've all made mistakes, and believe it or not, it helps to inform others of them so they don't make the same mistake. If we beat up members who post in this forum, many of whom who made mistakes in losing their watch (leaving it unattended, leaving on a table, restaurant, etc), no one would post in this sub-forum. Which in turns defeats the reason for having sub-forum in the first place.


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## tomjoad

IanC said:


> Sorry for the late reply, i was dealing with some issues over the past week.
> 
> Here is the response he sent me :
> 
> "There's paypal fee on the receiving side plus I have to drive out to the post office and that's not my normal route.
> 
> I don't know what you're whining about. I only agreed to take photograph and I never agree to do a review."
> 
> It doesn't look like he's going to agree to ship the watches without getting some money from me at least. I offered to pay him $15 to cover the cost of a priority flat rate medium box, delivery confirmation, and the cost of driving there......let's see what he says.
> 
> I seriously doubt he reads this forum though...i'm pretty sure most people on WUS don't.


Out of his way to the post office? WTF! This guy is a class A jerk!


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## Doc J

Terrible to hear Ian! Hope you get them back soon. Personally I'd just pay the money to get express tracking, so as to be sure they are home safe and sound soon.

I think you are right that outing him on the forum would be counterproductive as he'd probably just leave/start a new account unless his post count is quite high.

Glad it isn't more valuable watches! I am glad to see that generosity and trust still exists in the watch community, even if misplaced in this case.


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## Outlawyer

What makes anyone think that it's a great idea to send MORE money?


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## tomjoad

Outlawyer said:


> What makes anyone think that it's a great idea to send MORE money?


I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you, but $15 is a relatively low amount. Even if this attempt does prove to be a scam, its only $15 in an attempt for the OP to retrieve his watches.


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## stayready

tomjoad said:


> I'm somewhat inclined to agree with you, but $15 is a relatively low amount. Even if this attempt does prove to be a scam, its only $15 in an attempt for the OP to retrieve his watches.


this^

even if you lose $30 on this, at least you get the watches back, wish there was something i could do to help!


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## Paolo B

IanC said:


> I seriously doubt he reads this forum though...i'm pretty sure most people on WUS don't.


No, but they hit "New Posts" and things like this come up.

Give the guy his $20 and don't accept candy from strangers.


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## Monocrom

At this point, best thing to do is give him his little fee, then out him on WUS. If he wants to give up his excellent reputation in exchange for a few bucks, then let him.


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## DragonDan

Ian, please keep us in the loop on this one - it sure smells fishy to me...


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## StanThe Man

If you do pay him what guarantee do you have that he'll return your watch ? you might just be giving him a reward for having stolen your watch in the first place...post his name maybe that'll embarrass him enough to comply...or maybe not.


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## s.erickson87

StanThe Man said:


> If you do pay him what guarantee do you have that he'll return your watch ? you might just be giving him a reward for having stolen your watch in the first place...post his name maybe that'll embarrass him enough to comply...or maybe not.


There is a fine line here... I can't say I know what the right answer is. While I agree the OP should out the person, I think it should be done after the watches are safely home. As far as security goes, what about an international money order? That way the money can at least be tracked. And I know in the US you can send a registered letter with signature confirmation, can anybody help me out on if that works outside CONUS?


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## JR1

IanC, so sad that this happened. i hope you finally get back your watches without cost. the hassle has been too much already. 

nice custom watches by the way. i admire your dedication to pursue your project. good luck on it, and the next ones.


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## IanC

Hi all,

Just got internet back after dealing with housing issues here in sydney. I'm going to send him the money, and have PMed him as such. I will post his username when it's all over.


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## Drop of a Hat

IanC said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just got internet back after dealing with housing issues here in sydney. I'm going to send him the money, and have PMed him as such. I will post his username when it's all over.


He still has them?!?!? For another 4 months after this thread last was posted on???? Thats infuriating.

Sent via Tapatalk


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## IanC

Well he wasn't going to ship it without the money.

At least i hope he still has them, and they didn't "mysteriously dissapear" or something.


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## IanC

No response so far...

Incidentally, there was another guy who contacted me about doing reviews for the watches (not the forum member this thread is about). He's got a blog here : WristWatchReview.com. Has anyone heard about him?


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## lularib

So you lost your watches and the additional money? Really sad.
I hope you are not considering sending watches to another "reviewer"...


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## IanC

To clarify, i didn't send any additional money yet. He just responded via email saying he was out of town and would contact me when he's back. No idea if he's gonna do it though.

And yes, i was considering to send the watches to the guy i linked above....he contacted me a long time ago and has a pretty elaborate review site...i think i will ask around to see if anyone has heard of him though.


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## Robocaspar

How's that saying go again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice..?


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## rm7pr

I hate to say this but it sounds like you might never get the watches back. I'm not saying this is the correct thing but I would have cut my loses and moved on and chalked this up as a hard lesson learned. By the way who is this scumbag?


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## IanC

I will post the name when it's all finished, i don't want to post it now and have people start PMing him when i still have a chance of getting the watches back .


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## Drop of a Hat

IanC said:


> I will post the name when it's all finished, i don't want to post it now and have people start PMing him when i still have a chance of getting the watches back .


At this point, the only chance you have of getting them back is random people badgering him and threatening to destroy his rep.

Sent via Tapatalk


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## japc

Drop of a Hat said:


> At this point, the only chance you have of getting them back is random people badgering him and threatening to destroy his rep.


Or his knee caps.


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## Drop of a Hat

japc said:


> Or his knee caps.


A bit excessive, don't you think?

Sent via Tapatalk


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## jasontking

What city in Wi is he in?

Sent from Samsung Galaxy S2


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## IanC

He's in Madison.

I guess i will give him another week or two because he's "out of town" before giving up.


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## jasontking

Little too far far for me to travel.

I think you you are dealing with a VERY irresposible person. A true scammer probably would not return your emails at this point.

You still have a chance. Might be worth $15-20 even at a 50/50 chance. I bet once you send money you will still have to bug him to actually ship it.

Good luck.

Sent from Samsung Galaxy S2


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## kndy

IanC said:


> He's in Madison.
> 
> I guess i will give him another week or two because he's "out of town" before giving up.


I had no idea this was still going on.... Wow! Anyway, sorry to hear all the grief you have received from this guy.


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## Matt0129

Just read through all these pages. Wow people amaze me. I hope you at least get your watches back after all this bs.


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## mihaixp

I've just seen and read this entire thread and I'm very sorry for the OP. 
Hopefully it'll all be solved soon.

I've thought of something. If he still says that Int. shipping is expensive and requests shipping+insurance why don't you get him to send it to another US-based WUS member? He can then forward it to you. I know it can lead to additional charges (not much as CONUS shipping fees are pretty cheap) but at least you can finally get rid of the guy.


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## IanC

He was asking about $15-20 to send it to someone in the US.


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## Monocrom

Unfortunately, at this point, your best bet for getting your watches back is to pay the $15 - $20 extortion fee that he's asking for. Don't hold your breath that he'll actually do the right thing at this late stage. But, what the heck . . . Give it a try. If it doesn't wotk out, just cut your losses and move on.


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## mihaixp

IanC said:


> He was asking about $15-20 to send it to someone in the US.


Oh. 
I wonder how much he would have asked if you wanted him to send them directly to you, in Singapore. I really pity the guys that try to make a profit like this.


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## teatimecrumpet

W.
T.
F.

Does he live in MA? I'm a big dude.

PM me. Seriously.

My Co has an office in WI. Might be visiting some time possibly. Not sure, but will let you know when/if I do.


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## IanC

He just replied to my email stating that he would be back in the US at the end of May. When i asked for a clarification, he said he got a new job that requires him to spend a lot of time travelling the world. I can't help but feel he's stalling me at this point...

Member name is "ashirian", paypal email is "[email protected]".


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## fastward

IanC said:


> He just replied to my email stating that he would be back in the US at the end of May. When i asked for a clarification, he said he got a new job that requires him to spend a lot of time travelling the world. I can't help but feel he's stalling me at this point...


So how is posting his personal info going to help? Inviting someone to physically confront him?

All over $20, huh.


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## IanC

I didn't post his personal info to encourage a confrontation. It's very easy to register a new nick, even change your paypal address. Changing your name or home address isn't that easy.


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## fastward

IanC said:


> I didn't post his personal info to encourage a confrontation. It's very easy to register a new nick, even change your paypal address. Changing your name or home address isn't that easy.


Intentions or not, two wrongs do not make a right.


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## IanC

Why is it wrong?


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## at2011

How can another fellow forum member help if name and address is withheld? We can't exactly read minds, right?


Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2


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## GinGinD

Personal information deleted. Also, please read rule #3.

Jeannie


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## Famousname

IanC said:


> The forum member involved just responded and sent me the pictures he took...hopefully i will be able to get him to send the watches to someone else.
> 
> Some pictures of the watches involved (Which he took) :


Hey, I think I recognize this picture style. I have seen another member on here take shots like this where a diver watch was always partially submerged in a stream. Looked just like these pics, except the water theme. Oh well, maybe coincidence, but I could swear I've seen this guys work before.

I've been on forums of all different topics, (cars, clothes, watches, Modern architecture, ect...), and I've seen this same type of thing a 1000 times, just the other time it was car parts, or an expensive jacket, or an order of windows. Some of them are straight up scammers, others are just... weird people.

One guy on Benzworld was actually for real. But he took all these deposits on rare car parts, was using one guys money to float the parts on the guys order before him, had a down turn in fortunes, but kept taking orders and would just never ADMIT that he was in trouble. He did have ONE forum member who lived near him and would vouch for him to the point where the OTHER guy started paying people back for the "scammers" actions. Oddest thing I ever saw since I've been on forums. If you want to kill some time, this makes for a great read...

Phamilton01? - Benzworld.org - Mercedes-Benz Discussion Forum

OH yeah, and don't forget the story of what may be the most infamous internet scammer of all time, CHARLIE WENZEL. The story has gone down in net lore.

Charlie Wenzel: A Study in Arrogance and Stupidity

EDIT; damn, it 7-8 years later, and they are STILL tracking this guy.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-chit-chat/1109009-infamous-charlie-wenzel-update.html


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## IanC

GinGinD said:


> Personal information deleted. Also, please read rule #3.
> 
> Jeannie


I'm confused here. Personal details are posted in every scammer thread if the poster has it available, see : https://www.watchuseek.com/f90/scammer-forums-members-beware-762910.html. Nobody seems to have had an issue with this before?


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## jasontking

Agreed. At this point the guy is clearly a scammer. Name and address is needed so he can be identified once he changes his forum name. 

Sent from Samsung Galaxy S2


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## Famousname

IanC said:


> I'm confused here. Personal details are posted in every scammer thread if the poster has it available, see : https://www.watchuseek.com/f90/scammer-forums-members-beware-762910.html. Nobody seems to have had an issue with this before?


This is a valid point that deserves a reply from the moderator. Why the discrepancy with the rest of the forum?


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## eddiesleftfoot

Just read this thread open-mouthed at the brazenness of the scammer!

But Ian, seriously, think before you send anything else.


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## #21

jasontking said:


> What city in Wi is he in?
> 
> Sent from Samsung Galaxy S2


Looks like someone is going for knee caps.


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## ochong

This is terrible. Sorry to hear about the situation and especially how long it has been going on.

At this point it seems like the guy will keep stalling indefinitely - probably hoping you just give up on getting the watches back.


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## fastward

I hope that you get the watches back, but I'm not quite sure that we have the entire story. You sent two watches halfway across the world to an anonymous forum member, who would photograph them for free, so that you could sell more watches. If this is the case, asking for $15-20 for postage is appropriate for USPS Priority shipping with insurance.

I do not agree with the fact that he has had your watches for several months. However, if you had been told that the watches will not be shipped until you send him the money to ship, then he is not entirely at blame.

It also appears that threats of "extortion" and "blackmail" are being used to get the watches back.


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## my beat rate

Take no offense by me saying "what did you learn?" but I do wish you get them back at least. I'd be pretty pissed off too.


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## lularib

I wonder why someone is preventing this shameful scammer from being exposed. What is wrong with that? Anything to do with forum rules. I sincerely don't get it


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## Monocrom

lularib said:


> I wonder why someone is preventing this shameful scammer from being exposed. What is wrong with that? Anything to do with forum rules. I sincerely don't get it


The OP is holding out hope that the guy will actually do the right thing and return the watches.


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## Brucegbombara

I really feel bad for the OP. I really hope he gets his watches returned safely. Please keep us posted.


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## IanC

Monocrom said:


> The OP is holding out hope that the guy will actually do the right thing and return the watches.


I was, then his email where he said he would be out of town till the end of may made me give up. I tried posting his details, but a mod removed them all. Not sure why.

Bruce : Thanks! Will do. If anything actually happens after this.


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## IanC

On a somewhat related note, i recently had a guy email me offering to help market my watches.

After talking with him for a while, i realised he was dodging most of my questions, and wanted me to ship a number of watches to him, and he would pay me "later" when he sold the watches. He was not happy when i suggested that he pay me upfront for the watches after which he could re-sell at whatever price he wanted.

These people are everywhere...


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## IvanDrago

Robocaspar said:


> How's that saying go again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice..?


..shame on me.


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## ViperGuy

Just read this thread. I cannot believe people. Good thing he doesn't live near me. I'd be getting him info from you and making a visit. What a complete .......... I hope karma kicks his ass. 

Ian, I hope it all ends up working out, but sadly I don't think it will. 

Sent while doing a burnout.


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## Monocrom

IanC said:


> I was, then his email where he said he would be out of town till the end of may made me give up. I tried posting his details, but a mod removed them all. Not sure why.


It should be sufficient just to post the guy's user-name on WUS.


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## lularib

I agree it is very important to know at least his name on WUS.


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## IanC

I've posted his name in the thread, but in case anyone missed it, it's ashirian.


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## catarad

I think you should keep writing to him and trace the origin of his e-mails. 
For example Trace Email Address Source
And then see if he is at home or abroad. Either way, if he didn't manage to send the watches in that much time, he's a scammer.


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## IanC

Thanks for the link. His last email puts him in mountain view, CA....so i guess he really was out of town.


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## Crater

After reading this topic, I still don't know why you send him the watches in the first place?

It is sad though, like he is holding them hostage and will return them for money. And you can't do much about it, since he can sell/destroy them.

I just wonder how can someone actually wear a ''stolen'' watch? I could never wear a stolen watch, everytime it would remind you how you got it.


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## smshirk

I agree the guy shouldn't have kept your watches all this time, but it is also reasonable for you to send the money for return shipping. I'm surprised you didn't handle that detail with an agreement up front. I purchased the black version of your "creation" prior to you finishing production and I paid you up front for the watch and shipping from Asia I presume, since it was not cheap and I waited quite a while, I don't recall exactly how long. Certainly not as long as you have waited for the return, but I didn't really have a problem paying up front for a watch I had only seen a drawing of. It was after all, not an expensive purchase.

I'm not surprised you would send the guy a couple of watches, out of the couple hundred or so you had made, with the hope of assistance in marketing them with a good review on here and elsewhere. Was the review ever done? If so, was it favorable? Is that part of the story? I'm not making any accusations at all, just offering up that there could be more to this story than meets the eye in this thread. Being an owner of one of these watches, I could not, in good conscience, offer up a glowing review for consumption of the general membership of WUS, even if I were given a couple of examples to keep. I hate to use this term, but..................just saying!


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## Paolo B

At this point I would write the watches off. Chalk it up to experience and move on, buddy. A few hundred bucks isn't worth the trouble.


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## esdy_11192

I just read the whole thread. Sorry about the watches.

Anyway, I entered his paypal email in Facebook and I got this profile: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=8647640&fref=ts
Now you/everybody can see what he looks like.

Btw, It's silly sending something valuable to a stranger.


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## Famousname

^^^ Good work. OP, you got _got_. Simple as that. And in any got got, you got yourself.


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## LuvWatches

Did you get your watches back? I have a friend who is a US Marshall who could probably help you get them back.


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## Kittysafe

Why would you send a stranger watches just to take photos and possibly write a review? Why not have a local friend do it? 
This whole story doesn't seem very smart.


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## Laugh2Love2Live

Your watches are indexed regularly in watchrecon and lionseek. if you're still having trouble selling them, just put them on eBay. You'll sell them all in a couple of months.



IanC said:


> On a somewhat related note, i recently had a guy email me offering to help market my watches.
> 
> After talking with him for a while, i realised he was dodging most of my questions, and wanted me to ship a number of watches to him, and he would pay me "later" when he sold the watches. He was not happy when i suggested that he pay me upfront for the watches after which he could re-sell at whatever price he wanted.
> 
> These people are everywhere...


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