# Hermes bracelet/ bangle authentication



## Ugly Dude (Jul 7, 2013)

Hi all,

I know nothing about jewelry, and I'm not a member of any jewelry/ accessories sites, so I'm hoping to be able to draw on some collective WUS knowledge. Hope it's okay to post here.

I have ordered the below Hermes bracelet as a gift, and the eBay seller has decent feedback and had expressly assured me that the bracelet is authentic. He deals largely in Seiko watches.

Please can you give me your thoughts on authenticity, or anything else about this particular bracelet (ie roughly when it was made, etc.)? If you could point me to the right place/ resources, that would be appreciated. I really would like to check before I gift this.

I've contacted Hermes themselves, and they generally refuse to authenticate items, and not very helpfully suggested that I just buy new items from an AD. As far as I can tell, a brick & mortar AD would not authenticate items (you'd have to get repairs done or something similar and see whether the AD would assist). My internet searches yielded authentication guidelines for enamel bracelets, leather items, among others, but not the bracelet in question.

Thanks in advance!


















































Seller's pics, as I haven't yet received the bracelet.


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## Astaroth (Jan 4, 2013)

Have you looked in store of any of their current bracelets/ bangles to see how the stamps are? 

I am by no means an expert as the Mrs only has a few hermes pieces and none are bracelets but I dont think it looks up to their normal standard, and nor do most the ones on eBay at the moment. Could be that just this piece generally wasnt up to their normal standards or that there are a lot of fakes. Wouldnt want to advise.

You could try on forum.purseblog.com - just ignore any of their comments on watches as you wont approve - they have special threads for authenticating items on ebay etc by manufacturer


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## Skippy4000 (Jan 1, 2012)

Does not appear to be a luxury item to me, but I am not an expert on Hermes.


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## Ugly Dude (Jul 7, 2013)

Astaroth said:


> Have you looked in store of any of their current bracelets/ bangles to see how the stamps are?
> 
> I am by no means an expert as the Mrs only has a few hermes pieces and none are bracelets but I dont think it looks up to their normal standard, and nor do most the ones on eBay at the moment. Could be that just this piece generally wasnt up to their normal standards or that there are a lot of fakes. Wouldnt want to advise.
> 
> You could try on forum.purseblog.com - just ignore any of their comments on watches as you wont approve - they have special threads for authenticating items on ebay etc by manufacturer


Many thanks for the reply, Astaroth.

I will try to check out current pieces at the boutique, but not sure how fruitful that'd be if this is a "vintage" piece. No idea either way, really.

As for the others on eBay, it's really difficult for me to tell/ compare. Some were fairly pricy from seemingly respected sellers. I tried searching generally for whatever I could find on this bracelet, fake or not, and came up pretty empty.

I'll have another look at purseblog, but if I recall correctly, they didn't want to authenticate metal Hermes jewelry for some reason.

Thanks again.


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## Ugly Dude (Jul 7, 2013)

Shepperdw said:


> Does not appear to be a luxury item to me, but I am not an expert on Hermes.


Thanks. May I ask, any particular reason why it doesn't seem like a luxury item to you?


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## Astaroth (Jan 4, 2013)

Ugly Dude said:


> As for the others on eBay, it's really difficult for me to tell/ compare. Some were fairly pricy from seemingly respected sellers


The problem is that as time goes on and manufacturing processes improve it gets harder and harder to tell the difference. There was a TV program on here last night where someone bought a batch of watches at auction because he spotted there was a rolex in with the rest of the junk watches for some silly money, $30 or so if I remember. He was certain it was real but even the expert at the local watch shop took 30 minutes of taking it apart and inspecting the movement to declare it a fake worth $10 rather than a genuine rolex with diamond markers worth $10k plus

If I buy a $3k item for under $1k and it takes experts 30 minutes with tools to tell the difference it could well be that I am happy even if it is a fake.

To me the detail of the sculpting looks poor, particularly in the 2nd photo around the eye. Likewise the stamps inside look uneven and yet the shape wouldnt suggest that uneven a wear pattern. It could be real with poor photos and it just wasnt an exceptional piece when it was made. I am not an expert on hermes, I only relatively recently became fully aware of the brand but to me it doesnt hang together and I'd avoid it unless it was at such a price that I'd be happy with it if it was a fake.

There was a blog I came across once where someone bought a Chanel handbag that others had validate, from pictures, as being genuine. They cut it to bits and photographed it as a demonstration as it had been made of ultra thin/ cheap leather bulked out with cereal box cardboard to give the illusion of being thicker/ higher quality product


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## Ugly Dude (Jul 7, 2013)

Astaroth said:


> The problem is that as time goes on and manufacturing processes improve it gets harder and harder to tell the difference. There was a TV program on here last night where someone bought a batch of watches at auction because he spotted there was a rolex in with the rest of the junk watches for some silly money, $30 or so if I remember. He was certain it was real but even the expert at the local watch shop took 30 minutes of taking it apart and inspecting the movement to declare it a fake worth $10 rather than a genuine rolex with diamond markers worth $10k plus
> 
> If I buy a $3k item for under $1k and it takes experts 30 minutes with tools to tell the difference it could well be that I am happy even if it is a fake.
> 
> ...


This might be a steeper learning curve than watches!

Completely agree that manufacturing processes nowadays make it harder to tell fakes from genuine. In a strange sense, I hope that makes the defects you pointed out (eg uneven stamps) more indicative of the real thing. Remember the Panerai Brooklyn Bridge fiasco where fakes had even more/ better finished movements? Yes, I'm reaching, but am really in the dark with jewelry (this brand or otherwise).

As for the price, I paid $230 shipped. It's not so much the money potentially lost, but I'd like to be able to tell my wife whether it was real or not with some confidence.

I took your advice and signed up at PurseBlog. It does seem as if they won't authenticate metal Hermes jewelry.

I also stared at pictures of similar bracelets on Rakuten, which I would guess are real. The stamps there look very similar and just as uneven. But not sure if those are fakes as well. Here's a Rakuten pic.


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## Astaroth (Jan 4, 2013)

Authenticate This Hermes Accessory *Please read the rules and use format in Post #1 - Page 252 - PurseForum does have people posting metal accessories with responses being received other than for scarf rings. Ultimately post it and the worst they can do is say no.

To me the price is too cheap for genuine too if thats a buy it now price rather than auction.


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## Skippy4000 (Jan 1, 2012)

I would say this one and the ones on Rakuten are fake. I don't think Hermes would make something that shoddy. Just my opinion though.


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## Ugly Dude (Jul 7, 2013)

Astaroth said:


> Authenticate This Hermes Accessory *Please read the rules and use format in Post #1 - Page 252 - PurseForum does have people posting metal accessories with responses being received other than for scarf rings. Ultimately post it and the worst they can do is say no.
> 
> To me the price is too cheap for genuine too if thats a buy it now price rather than auction.


The price was for auction. The seller starts all his auctions at US$0.01 with no reserve.

Just a quick update, I did post on Purseblog, and they said they won't authenticate metal jewelry (or on closed auctions). As you indicated, didn't hurt to try. However, I'm pretty much at a loss on how to proceed/ authenticate. Anyhow, really appreciated your input.


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## Astaroth (Jan 4, 2013)

Ugly Dude said:


> The price was for auction. The seller starts all his auctions at US$0.01 with no reserve.
> 
> Just a quick update, I did post on Purseblog, and they said they won't authenticate metal jewelry (or on closed auctions). As you indicated, didn't hurt to try. However, I'm pretty much at a loss on how to proceed/ authenticate. Anyhow, really appreciated your input.


Certainly there are shops here that will authenticate items but they'd want to see them in the flesh.

Personally, I think its fake, if you think its worth having as a fake at the price then buy it and if it turns out to be genuine then its a bonus.


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## Ugly Dude (Jul 7, 2013)

Astaroth said:


> Certainly there are shops here that will authenticate items but they'd want to see them in the flesh.
> 
> Personally, I think its fake, if you think its worth having as a fake at the price then buy it and if it turns out to be genuine then its a bonus.


Hi all,

To clarify, I had already paid for the bangle before I made my first post here. 
Just wanted to give you guys an update. The item (non-watch) was fake. Thanks much for your input.

This bangle was indicated as fake by two independent authorized dealers, plus a written statement from a third party on letterhead that it was fake, supported by a team of experienced authenticators around the world. Seller is in the business of selling "vintage" watches (eg Seiko, Omega and other brands) .

Seller asked whether I had third party verification of fakeness which I had and submitted to him, then he said that my verification was faked! Outrageous! Note that Hermes' policy is to not authenticate one way or another ( I had already contacted Hermes.com) so I'm forced to use a third party authentication service. Seller also claimed that he is a lawyer, presumably, in a posturing to scare me away from getting my money back.

He wants the item shipped back to the Philippines, despite my analysis that fake items can't be sent through the mail system where I am now (if so, I may be looking at heavy fines, or mail fraud or for charges including customs, IP violations, duties, admin fines or possibly jail time). I am in a weird situation here. Also, ethically, I'm convinced that this guy would put the item back into the stream of commerce.

Paypal at first said that could I offer to provide evidence of destruction of the item (very happy to do so), but then Paypal backtracked citing "policy" without regard to my evidence. Then, Paypal had repeatedly told me to send it back, regardless of how illegal it is and the verification I had received.

I spoke with Christina, an aggressive PayPal manager. I explained how I have third party evidence that the bangle is fake, and she said that I must send the item back, despite risks described above, if I want my money back. No buts about it.

As Paypal representatives have said that it was perfectly legal for me to send it back, I asked Christina to send me an email from Paypal saying that I would not be criminally liable in any way for sending it back. She refused.

Another Paypal representative accepted my offer of having the local authorities destroy it, but then Paypal reneged on what she said.

Abel, another Paypal manager, said he'll take up my concern with the Paypal legal department, but I might be getting the run around here, as I've heard nothing back despite my follow up calls.

Mods, I have a third party verification of the fake nature of this post and evidence of my discussions, and I'd like those in this community to avoid the seller. If there is any issue, please let me know and I will rectify immediately.

Seller's details are below:

Apol_of_your_eyes

Apollo S. Casuga 
20 Armstrong St., Dona Faustina Village, Tandang Sora, Quezon City, Philippines

AVOID.

Note that I'm barred from opening an ebay claim as I've opened a PayPal dispute. EBay seems to would have asked me to show evidence of destruction like turning it into the local authorities.

Any thoughts, please?

Thanks.


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## Skippy4000 (Jan 1, 2012)

Return it. Sheesh.


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