# Mont Blanc from Costco?



## tilnaneer

Costco has Mont Blanc Generation pens onsale for $169.00. They clearly state they are not an AD...but can I trust these pens are authentic?


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## velobard

Personally I'd trust them. When I bought a watch there for my wife I got a paper stating that for any watch for which they are not an authorized dealer, they'd stand behind the product themselves.


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## loplop

I trust Costco would only sell genuine items.

Just a word of caution, though... My lovely wife bought me one of these (a rollerball) for Christmas, and we ended up returning it. It felt very "cheap" in hand, and really didn't impress for the price. I didn't write with it, although I imagine it writes well, it just didn't inspire.

We ended up grabbing a few Pelikan FP's instead from a local dealer, and I'm much happier with them than my first foray into MontBlanc. 

FWIW, YMMV, and all that.


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## Dieselgeek

They sold a whole crap load of fake Prada purses.


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## loplop

That was Sam's. Different company 

Still, if you buy something from Costco and hate it, want something else, think its a fake, whatever... You can return it at any time for a full refund. Their return policy is unparalleled in my experience. They have limited certain electronic items to 90 days due to folks' returning obsolete technology for a refund, LOL... But with a pen/bag you're pretty covered.

Our Costco has TAG, Zenith, Breitling, Omega, and other interesting watches, FWIW. I've never bought one because they seem to be overrepresented with chronos, but they have some good deals on those, too.

I see MB and Omas pens there, as well.

Anywho, if the OP buys a MB from Costco I wouldn't be worried. And do post a review when you have a chance.


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## KRW

Hi All,

The MB I examined at a local Costco did have serial numbers engraved on the clip. :-!

KRW


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## Mathew J

KRW said:


> Hi All,
> 
> The MB I examined at a local Costco did have serial numbers engraved on the clip. :-!
> 
> KRW


Generation series pens don't have serial numbers.

Personally I bought ten of the ball point models when they had them at my local Costco, they were only like $60 a piece, turned around and sold them on ebay for $110-120 each. My wife bought one for myself, honestly if it wasn't less than 50% off I would have told her to return it, the generations is a pretty poorly made pen, then again I am not a fan of most MB meisterstuck and lower lines as there are way better options for the same or less.

I have yet to see a fake item at Costco, and that includes pens and watches...they all seem legit.


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## georges zaslavsky

Mathew J said:


> Generation series pens don't have serial numbers.
> 
> Personally I bought ten of the ball point models when they had them at my local Costco, they were only like $60 a piece, turned around and sold them on ebay for $110-120 each. My wife bought one for myself, honestly if it wasn't less than 50% off I would have told her to return it, the generations is a pretty poorly made pen, then again I am not a fan of most MB meisterstuck and lower lines as there are way better options for the same or less.
> 
> I have yet to see a fake item at Costco, and that includes pens and watches...they all seem legit.


MBs poorly made? I have seen enough of your bashing on FPN against MB, I bet on pentrace it must have been the same.The meisterstucks are very reliable writers with good nibs. I own 5 meisterstücks, 3 MB149s and 2 MB146s, they are very reliable and trouble free writers. I also own three Omas pens. Omas nibs are excellent but their piston filling system is somewhat fragile plus Omas customer service is far to be that great. Visconti and Delta have often quality control issues and poor customer service. Aurora has toothy pitchfork nibs. Delta nibs are also very meh. Montegrappa is a nice brand but their piston filling system is very tight and the cap on the extra needs a lot of turns to be unscrewed.The best italian brand for me is Omas. I also have an older style Pelikan 800 that beats any sailor 1911 or sapporo with a medium nib. Even my 1986 MB146 with an extra fine nib beats any sailor 1911 I have tried with an extra fine nib. Sailor converters have a ridiculous ink capacity. Pilot isn't bad but the plunger fill on the custom 823 is something very inferior in terms of quality to the piston filling system.


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## Mathew J

Georges, the difference between Pentrace, FPN, and Alt.pens pencils is that most contributors agree...that when compared to many, many other brands Motblanc just aren't that good, its alot like Bose in the audio community.

I have yet to own or use a Meistersuck that doesn't have a scratchy nib or one with good flow.

A pretty sad state of affairs when one can write with a Phileas and have better performance than a pen which costs in the hundreds if not thousands.

Not to mention any of the VP's I have used have written excellently.

And Parker is another

Your comments re Sailor I find are somewhat interesting since no one in the pen community agrees with them. Everyone says they are by far one of the best writing nibs out there.

Sorry Georges, for me MB is just ok and nothing more, I certainly wouldn't put them above Pelikan, Omas, Aurora, Sailor, or Namiki to name a few...especially not for durability or writing performance.

The problem is that all of these boards seem to care more and more about status and perception over that of actual useage and product quality.

And I have owned three MB fountain pens, along with two ball points...two 145s, a 146 which I promptly sold, a Le Grand ball point and a whole host of generation ballpoints...the 145 and the 146 were "ok", both were scratchy, and the 145s cart/converter system is near horrible when it comes to flow. The ballpoints were just that, ballpoints, but the construction on the generation pens were a joke for the cost, luckily I got them for over 50% off and even that was a ripoff.

Here is a great thread on the 146 vs a Sailor...seems quite different from the picture you paint Georges...

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42737&hl=montblanc



georges zaslavsky said:


> MBs poorly made? I have seen enough of your bashing on FPN against MB, I bet on pentrace it must have been the same.The meisterstucks are very reliable writers with good nibs. I own 5 meisterstücks, 3 MB149s and 2 MB146s, they are very reliable and trouble free writers. I also own three Omas pens. Omas nibs are excellent but their piston filling system is somewhat fragile plus Omas customer service is far to be that great. Visconti and Delta have often quality control issues and poor customer service. Aurora has toothy pitchfork nibs. Delta nibs are also very meh. Montegrappa is a nice brand but their piston filling system is very tight and the cap on the extra needs a lot of turns to be unscrewed.The best italian brand for me is Omas. I also have an older style Pelikan 800 that beats any sailor 1911 or sapporo with a medium nib. Even my 1986 MB146 with an extra fine nib beats any sailor 1911 I have tried with an extra fine nib. Sailor converters have a ridiculous ink capacity. Pilot isn't bad but the plunger fill on the custom 823 is something very inferior in terms of quality to the piston filling system.


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## georges zaslavsky

Mathew J said:


> Georges, the difference between Pentrace, FPN, and Alt.pens pencils is that most contributors agree...that when compared to many, many other brands Motblanc just aren't that good, its alot like Bose in the audio community.
> 
> I have yet to own or use a Meistersuck that doesn't have a scratchy nib or one with good flow.
> 
> A pretty sad state of affairs when one can write with a Phileas and have better performance than a pen which costs in the hundreds if not thousands.
> 
> Not to mention any of the VP's I have used have written excellently.
> 
> And Parker is another
> 
> Your comments re Sailor I find are somewhat interesting since no one in the pen community agrees with them. Everyone says they are by far one of the best writing nibs out there.
> 
> Sorry Georges, for me MB is just ok and nothing more, I certainly wouldn't put them above Pelikan, Omas, Aurora, Sailor, or Namiki to name a few...especially not for durability or writing performance.
> 
> The problem is that all of these boards seem to care more and more about status and perception over that of actual useage and product quality.
> 
> And I have owned three MB fountain pens, along with two ball points...two 145s, a 146 which I promptly sold, a Le Grand ball point and a whole host of generation ballpoints...the 145 and the 146 were "ok", both were scratchy, and the 145s cart/converter system is near horrible when it comes to flow. The ballpoints were just that, ballpoints, but the construction on the generation pens were a joke for the cost, luckily I got them for over 50% off and even that was a ripoff.
> 
> Here is a great thread on the 146 vs a Sailor...seems quite different from the picture you paint Georges...
> 
> http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42737&hl=montblanc


Some people in that thread in particular were saying that the MB
146 and the 1911 were equal, the opinion was subjective not a matter of fact. Aurora and Omas better than MB? No way. Aurora's nibs are pretty scratchy and are of a very average to to very mediocre quality. Omas makes fantastic pens but the quality control and the customer service let a lot to be desired especially when you +500$ for a pen. Namiki makes a lot of maki and laquer finished fountain pens but their nibs are too needle point and too glass smooth. I can't write with a needle point nib. Sailor suffers from the same problem from Namiki, it has too needlepoint nibs and the price of their pens isn't justified because most of these have just a small capacity ink converter. Pelikan beats Sailor and Omas in terms of price/quality ratio by a very long mile, I own an old style m800 with a medium than beats many medium nibs from other pen manufacturers I have tried. The VP are just pure garbage for me. If you had bad nibs on your 146, you could have them repaired but no you didn't choose to send them to repair or to a nibmeister (binder or mottishaw), you sold them and started to give the brand a very bad name as you usually do with Rolex. Customer service is something to be used when you have issues with whatever you buy but it seems that you ignored that option. Looks like customer service in the USA for many things like pens and watches isn't on par with customer service in European countries. I testwrote more pens that you can think and my conclusion remains the same a pen that can't be used as a daily writer is not worth the money. I own also a Waterman Kultur Demonstrator with a fine nib and it is miles away in terms of smoothness and nib consistency as compared to my 1986 MB 146 and my 1977 MB 149 which are both fine nibbed pens. What are my daily writers? My 1977 MB 149 with a fine nib and my 2005 Omas Paragon. My vintage 149 is on par with that Omas in terms of nibs and its piston is way smoother than the Omas and it holds more ink than the Omas. I am buying soon a Waterman Le Man 100 patrician, an older waterman model which outperforms any newer model made by Waterman like the Edson and the Exception. MB has rarely had quality control issues unlike italian pen brands and reliability is the main word when you buy a MB. If you like a "hangar queen" not a daily writer then buy an over-expensive Italian Celluloid pen. I know several people owning modern 149s and modern 146s who are very happy of their writing qualities. It is not because you had bad luck with MB (or Rolex) that other people must encounter the same problems than you had.


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## Mathew J

Georges,

All of the things you say that are wrong with the various manufacturers are very subjective....just because you find Namiki and Sailor nibs to be too fine and also too smooth (really is that a criticism or a compliment) doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Personally I would much rather a smooth Namiki or Sailor than a scratchy and skipping Montblanc.

As for the 146 and the 1911 being equal, wouldn't that then speak volumes for the Sailor given that it costs roughly a third what the Montblanc does? and if anything they said writing performance of the Sailor was far superior to that of the Montblanc, the only thing that brought it down was the ink capacity and only when used with the converter, if one uses a cartridge then it is fine.

A few griped about the build on the 1911 but I could easily level the same criticisms against Montblanc especially given their price point.

As for Aurora and Omas, I owned an 88 for a short while and on build quality alone it seems far nicer than any Montblanc I have owned, the only down side to them is their pricing is ridiculous now. Omas is much the same, their build was better than the Montblancs I have used/owned, and writing performance was about on par, really couldn't get any worse than the Montblancs as they were pretty awful.

As for the Vanishing point, it is easily my best writing pen, period. And under $100 when I bought it so a bargain.

Personally Pelikan is one of my favorites though, have owned two of them and both were excellent.

Georges I don't think that for what one pays for a Montblanc or any high end pen they should then be subjected to paying for a nibmeister to make it right...it isn't like I was looking for a custom ground nib, all I ask is that they have proper ink flow and not skip....something I have yet to find in a montblanc. And yes, if the product is that bad in my eyes then I will level a negative criticism against it, especially if there is way to much hype surrounding the brand...like Rolex I bought into Montblanc thinking that this many people cannot be wrong, and sadly after owning more than a few I was reminded of why I should go with my own gut instead of following the herd.

Montblanc and Rolex make ok products, but for me it ends there as there are too many other companies that make good or better products for my needs at a much lower price point that cater more to their enthusiast market. I don't get wrapped up in percieved status and or name brand appeal any more and thus the marketing of these companies does little to impress me, especially when their products continuously fail to meet the expectations which they set. Not to mention the company policies and service costs are ridiculous when you consider what they do (montblanc they typically replace, and Rolex can't make their watches any more easy to service yet charge a good premium over Omega)

Also I think your statement of MB rarely having QC issues is a bit off, they were notorious for having leaking nib sections throughout the 90s that was due to poor gaskets/sealing, and their pens were regarded as being fragile and brittle thanks to their "precious resin", only recently did they start reinforcing them with brass inserts. And I cannot even keep track of all the posts I have read from those with perforamce issues and their Montblanc Pens, last I checked the general concensus was they look nice if you like that look but don't write nearly as well as their price would suggest, and going by the examples I have owned and used I would agree with that assessment. Not to mention their repair cost is/was seen as high when compared to others.

I remember reading many a post by the author of "*Da Book* - FOUNTAIN PENS: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO REPAIR AND RESTORATION" by the late great Frank Dubiel and he never had one good thing to say about modern Montblanc...at all, really telling when those who write such books hold such a sentiment IMHO

And as far as "hangar queens" are concerned, my 145 hasn't been inked in over three years...


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## georges zaslavsky

Mathew J said:


> Georges,
> 
> a)All of the things you say that are wrong with the various manufacturers are very subjective....just because you find Namiki and Sailor nibs to be too fine and also too smooth (really is that a criticism or a compliment) doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Personally I would much rather a smooth Namiki or Sailor than a scratchy and skipping Montblanc.
> b)As for the 146 and the 1911 being equal, wouldn't that then speak volumes for the Sailor given that it costs roughly a third what the Montblanc does? and if anything they said writing performance of the Sailor was far superior to that of the Montblanc, the only thing that brought it down was the ink capacity and only when used with the converter, if one uses a cartridge then it is fine.
> c)A few griped about the build on the 1911 but I could easily level the same criticisms against Montblanc especially given their price point.
> d)As for Aurora and Omas, I owned an 88 for a short while and on build quality alone it seems far nicer than any Montblanc I have owned, the only down side to them is their pricing is ridiculous now. Omas is much the same, their build was better than the Montblancs I have used/owned, and writing performance was about on par, really couldn't get any worse than the Montblancs as they were pretty awful.
> d)As for the Vanishing point, it is easily my best writing pen, period. And under $100 when I bought it so a bargain.
> e)Personally Pelikan is one of my favorites though, have owned two of them and both were excellent.
> f)Georges I don't think that for what one pays for a Montblanc or any high end pen they should then be subjected to paying for a nibmeister to make it right...it isn't like I was looking for a custom ground nib, all I ask is that they have proper ink flow and not skip....something I have yet to find in a montblanc. And yes, if the product is that bad in my eyes then I will level a negative criticism against it, especially if there is way to much hype surrounding the brand...like Rolex I bought into Montblanc thinking that this many people cannot be wrong, and sadly after owning more than a few I was reminded of why I should go with my own gut instead of following the herd.
> g)Montblanc and Rolex make ok products, but for me it ends there as there are too many other companies that make good or better products for my needs at a much lower price point that cater more to their enthusiast market. I don't get wrapped up in percieved status and or name brand appeal any more and thus the marketing of these companies does little to impress me, especially when their products continuously fail to meet the expectations which they set. Not to mention the company policies and service costs are ridiculous when you consider what they do (montblanc they typically replace, and Rolex can't make their watches any more easy to service yet charge a good premium over Omega)
> h)Also I think your statement of MB rarely having QC issues is a bit off, they were notorious for having leaking nib sections throughout the 90s that was due to poor gaskets/sealing, and their pens were regarded as being fragile and brittle thanks to their "precious resin", only recently did they start reinforcing them with brass inserts. And I cannot even keep track of all the posts I have read from those with perforamce issues and their Montblanc Pens, last I checked the general concensus was they look nice if you like that look but don't write nearly as well as their price would suggest, and going by the examples I have owned and used I would agree with that assessment. Not to mention their repair cost is/was seen as high when compared to others.I remember reading many a post by the author of "*Da Book* - FOUNTAIN PENS: THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO REPAIR AND RESTORATION" by the late great Frank Dubiel and he never had one good thing to say about modern Montblanc...at all, really telling when those who write such books hold such a sentiment IMHO
> And as far as "hangar queens" are concerned, my 145 hasn't been inked in over three years...


Matthew

a)Are Namiki or Sailor super strong sellers in Europe? Not really, some people who know really pen brands buy them otherwise the most bought pen brands are MB, Parker and Waterman. I tried many modern 149s which were far to be scratchy, they had buttery smooth nibs
b)Sailor being a superior writer is subjective, I tried many in many nibs widths but no a 1911 is way better than a 146. The 1911 uses a small cartridge where as the 146 uses a piston filler which capacity is three times the capacity of a small cartridge.
c) ok
d)Aurora nibs were toothy and scratchy, the rest of the pen was very mediocre. The built quality of Aurora is nothing special. Omas has a lot of quality control issues lately as well as poor customer service. Again you never seemed to have luck wether it was with Rolex or MB, unbelievable. Yet, you continue to give a very bad image of the brands, you bash them want it or not. 
d)The vanishing point I tried were all pieces of ****.
e)Yes, I can understand that but when something is going wrong you should have then used the customer service instead of blaming the whole brand. There is a montblanc vintage and modern repair specialist (I can't remember his name) who would have fixed your pens and made of them superb writers. Perhaps, you used the wrong inks in your MBs, using Noodlers or any Iron gall inks can stain the filling system, I also used Waterman inks for my MBs and with Waterman inks I never had a single skipping or ink flow problems. I also advise Waterman ink for MB. I will tell you before I was into fountain pens, a friend of mine at school in 1999 lent me his 1996 Bordeaux MB 146 with a fine nib. It was the smoothest pen I have tried and since that I decided that I will get a MB a day or another. My first MB was a present from my uncle of Lausanne who used his MB 146 during 34 years, it has a lovely medium oblique nib which is ultra flexible. Later I added another 146 a modern production model from 1986 with an extra fine semi flex fine nib which is smooth and three 149s, one from 1966 with full flexible medium oblique nib, one from 1977 with a medium broad flexible nib and another from 1977 with a fine semi flex nib. All of my MBs are inked and I use them most of the time. 
g) MB and Rolex are making products? That the is best one I have heard in a while <|:-x Rolex makes watches with trouble free movements that are proven since decades way better than any middle of the range ETA 2892-a2 or 2824-2. The 4130 and 3135 reliability rates are legendary. Omega new products like the 33xx is far to be that great because it had too many reliability issues and it is not a lemania based movement. The coaxial was made in three version because Omega couldn't make the right one from the start.:think:Omega claimed that the coax service intervals were of 10 years then Omega sent an email to the coax owners that service interval were of 6-8 years in the best cases. The coax was hyped as was the 33xx, full of Hayek marketing hype and misleading claims. Rolex always clearly wrote that service intervals was of 5 year yet some owners still don't service and haven't serviced their rolex till decades and still works well. I preferred the time when Omega was fully making its own inhouse movements which were of much better quality than ETAs and Piguet based movements. Pelikan switched from inhouse to Bock nibs in the 2000s. Many people said that Bock nibs are not of the same character of older inhouse nibs but they aren't that bad. Experimented and qualified watchmakers are a scarcity if not non existent in the USA, and even among those qualified watchmakers in the USA few are Rolex certified independent watchmakers. Rolex USA service, I know more than you can think about it. 
h)I have talked with a pen shop owner who is known worldwide and who is longer in the pen business than many pen shops in the USA or any online dealers. The pen shop I am talking about is mora stylos since 1930 (http://www.morastylos.com), that means 78 years of being in the pen business way longer than any online dealers. Mr Mora the owner of that shop told me that with MBs from the foundation of the pen shop by his father, they are rarely if not never had customers return. I heard about the prone to fracture resin but if you are into dropping your fountain pen on the floor then something is wrong with you. I have met over a dozen of MB owners at a pen show that happened last year in Paris and all told me that they were satisfied of the good nib consistency and good ink flow of their MBs. When I had to repair my first 149 I only paid 50 euros, looks like in USA you have a terrible customer service for fountain pens an watches. Frank Dubiel is not an authority for me, I trust more someone like Mr Andre Mora whose shop is 78 years in the pen business and who knows his pens way better than M.Dubiel who is mainly a collector and who isn't a pen dealer.


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## Mathew J

Georges, 

It is obvious once again you and I just won't agree on this so why bother arguing?? you prefer big name status brands, that is fine, whereas I find little value in them especially when their product is continually worse than that which their competitiors offer.

To address your points;

1. Who cares if Namiki or Sailor are strong sellers, last I checked that wasn't one of my criteria for determining who makes a good product, rather instead more of an indicator of who has a better brand name and or bigger marketing budget. And like I said, every MB fountain pen I have tried have been horrible writers, they all skip, they are all scratchy, and they were all hard starters.

2. Georges, re. Sailor being a superior writer I am only citing what others who own both seem to say...and the concensus is Sailor has some of the best quality nibs out there from a writing perspective. Personally I would rather a smooth nib and a small cartridge than a horribly scratchy skipping nib and a massive piston system.

3. The Aurora 88 I had was easily as good as the MB 145 and 146 I had, if not better, it felt like a much more substantial pen and the clip was made better. The one example I used was again much nicer of a writer than any of the MBs I have used. But I have heard they are hit or miss with the nibs.

4. I fail to see how you can chastize me for giving Rolex and Montblanc a hard time and yet you do the same thing Georges with virtually every brand but them...look at what you write about the Namiki's and the Sailors, especially when as I said in the community you are one of the one ones to hold these opinions...I have yet to talk with anyone who has an issue with Namiki VPs as you have...everyone else says they are supurb writers, period. Am I to believe you who has a strong bias for Montblanc or the many others who are a bit more objective coupled with my own experience?

5. Georges, you can understand what? my point on service is simple....if I pay alot of money for a pen the least I expect it to do out of the box is write ok, the problem is none of the Montblancs I have owned would do that...I don't believe in paying for shipping or service or the service of a repair specialist/nibmeister on a brand new luxury pen...it is ridiculous. And typically I use Montblanc black which if anything would be an approved ink.

Georges, if you have your reasons to like MB that is fine, however one has to realize that others such as myself might only regard them as "ok" and nothing more as our experiences aren't that special...

Maybe I just don't get big hyped brands as their products in my eyes never meet the expectation that the companies set...I always assume them to be trouble free from a quality standpoint but always find them to have some issues wheras with other less expensive less known brands I don't find the same issues...with Rolex it was always something their quality control missed, with Montblanc it was the fact their pens wouldn't write well for me out of the box and they were much more expensive than their competition.

6. Yes Georges, in my opinion Rolex and MB make mediocre products, Rolex "work" but for what you pay in my opinion they aren't really that attractive when compared to others, and I would hardly consider Omega's 2892 middle of the road with what they do. I would also hardly call Rolex reliability "legendary" especially when Seiko offers similar reliability for a fraction of the cost. Also you couldn't be more off base on your assessment of the co axial, again I find it a bit hypocricial for you to be saying I spread mis information yet you do it on a regular basis. The co axial had one issue with over oiling, every other revision was to make manufacturing more efficient and also improve the design, much the same as the approach Rolex took with their movement upgrades only quicker...don't see you also mention the early problems the Daytona movement had? I also don't know what hype you were talking about, if anything if was from enthusiasts not so much the company...but the Co Axial still may live up to the claims, many already say from an accuracy standpoint they are very good.

Again with the in house BS Georges, with watches I can understand but pens it is ridiculous...I have yet to read anything of the sort with re. to Pelikan and Boch, if anything everyone said the quality improved as it was more consistent, plus there was never a question that Boch didn't make high quality nibs, just like ETA with movements. The one thing I like about the pen community is that there isn't this hang up on in house production as there is with watches, instead with that group it is still about what works well for the best value and not all about percieved status.

7. You talked with one owner, contrast that with the many owners - enthusiasts who say otherwise? I have talked with owners as well of long standing establishments that also do repair and the concensus is that they sell MB and are positive about them because they sell...but otherwise they don't recommend them to people who actually want to use them to write, as they just aren't that good of writers. Also it isn't like people intentionally drop their pen Georges, and I have seen cracking on others which were not dropped as well. And my experiences had nothing to do with US specific customer service, rather the lack of quality from the factory period. 

And what you say about Mr. Dubiel is fine for you, but his work in and for the community should be at least recognized, I have a much easier time believing someone who wrote a book on fountain pen repair than someone who has a vested interest in a brand because they sell them.

Georges, I just don't think we will ever agree as said above.


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## georges zaslavsky

Mathew J said:


> Georges,
> 
> It is obvious once again you and I just won't agree on this so why bother arguing?? you prefer big name status brands, that is fine, whereas I find little value in them especially when their product is continually worse than that which their competitiors offer.
> 
> To address your points;
> 
> 1. Who cares if Namiki or Sailor are strong sellers, last I checked that wasn't one of my criteria for determining who makes a good product, rather instead more of an indicator of who has a better brand name and or bigger marketing budget. And like I said, every MB fountain pen I have tried have been horrible writers, they all skip, they are all scratchy, and they were all hard starters.
> 
> 2. Georges, re. Sailor being a superior writer I am only citing what others who own both seem to say...and the concensus is Sailor has some of the best quality nibs out there from a writing perspective. Personally I would rather a smooth nib and a small cartridge than a horribly scratchy skipping nib and a massive piston system.
> 
> 3. The Aurora 88 I had was easily as good as the MB 145 and 146 I had, if not better, it felt like a much more substantial pen and the clip was made better. The one example I used was again much nicer of a writer than any of the MBs I have used. But I have heard they are hit or miss with the nibs.
> 
> 4. I fail to see how you can chastize me for giving Rolex and Montblanc a hard time and yet you do the same thing Georges with virtually every brand but them...look at what you write about the Namiki's and the Sailors, especially when as I said in the community you are one of the one ones to hold these opinions...I have yet to talk with anyone who has an issue with Namiki VPs as you have...everyone else says they are supurb writers, period. Am I to believe you who has a strong bias for Montblanc or the many others who are a bit more objective coupled with my own experience?
> 
> 5. Georges, you can understand what? my point on service is simple....if I pay alot of money for a pen the least I expect it to do out of the box is write ok, the problem is none of the Montblancs I have owned would do that...I don't believe in paying for shipping or service or the service of a repair specialist/nibmeister on a brand new luxury pen...it is ridiculous. And typically I use Montblanc black which if anything would be an approved ink.
> 
> Georges, if you have your reasons to like MB that is fine, however one has to realize that others such as myself might only regard them as "ok" and nothing more as our experiences aren't that special...
> 
> Maybe I just don't get big hyped brands as their products in my eyes never meet the expectation that the companies set...I always assume them to be trouble free from a quality standpoint but always find them to have some issues wheras with other less expensive less known brands I don't find the same issues...with Rolex it was always something their quality control missed, with Montblanc it was the fact their pens wouldn't write well for me out of the box and they were much more expensive than their competition.
> 
> 6. Yes Georges, in my opinion Rolex and MB make mediocre products, Rolex "work" but for what you pay in my opinion they aren't really that attractive when compared to others, and I would hardly consider Omega's 2892 middle of the road with what they do. I would also hardly call Rolex reliability "legendary" especially when Seiko offers similar reliability for a fraction of the cost. Also you couldn't be more off base on your assessment of the co axial, again I find it a bit hypocricial for you to be saying I spread mis information yet you do it on a regular basis. The co axial had one issue with over oiling, every other revision was to make manufacturing more efficient and also improve the design, much the same as the approach Rolex took with their movement upgrades only quicker...don't see you also mention the early problems the Daytona movement had? I also don't know what hype you were talking about, if anything if was from enthusiasts not so much the company...but the Co Axial still may live up to the claims, many already say from an accuracy standpoint they are very good.
> 
> Again with the in house BS Georges, with watches I can understand but pens it is ridiculous...I have yet to read anything of the sort with re. to Pelikan and Boch, if anything everyone said the quality improved as it was more consistent, plus there was never a question that Boch didn't make high quality nibs, just like ETA with movements. The one thing I like about the pen community is that there isn't this hang up on in house production as there is with watches, instead with that group it is still about what works well for the best value and not all about percieved status.
> 
> 7. You talked with one owner, contrast that with the many owners - enthusiasts who say otherwise? I have talked with owners as well of long standing establishments that also do repair and the concensus is that they sell MB and are positive about them because they sell...but otherwise they don't recommend them to people who actually want to use them to write, as they just aren't that good of writers. Also it isn't like people intentionally drop their pen Georges, and I have seen cracking on others which were not dropped as well. And my experiences had nothing to do with US specific customer service, rather the lack of quality from the factory period.
> 
> And what you say about Mr. Dubiel is fine for you, but his work in and for the community should be at least recognized, I have a much easier time believing someone who wrote a book on fountain pen repair than someone who has a vested interest in a brand because they sell them.
> 
> Georges, I just don't think we will ever agree as said above.


This will be my final reply and let me remind you that you were somewhat embarrassing for the rolex and omega communities in the past because you bashed both brands, once a basher always a basher that never changes.

1) I don't give a damn of marketing but quality has to be quality and customer service is also important. I repeat it again wether it is Rolex or MB , you only had poor experience and yet bash the brand continually. You know what is customer service made for, don't you???

2) This is just one thread so it proves nothing. There are many people who are happy with MB.

3) The aurora88 is what I call a celluloid hangar queen with a scratchy toothy nib, my 1986 mb 146 beats any other extra fine nibbed fountain pen I have written with.

4) You like everything that is made in Japan, don't you? I don't like the VP and never will. You are the one biased with MB because you got lemons , you didn't use the customer service for having your pen repaired then you decided to blame them for all the bad pens. Your own experience is not many people's experience so it is not really significant. If many people had the problems than you did then I would acknowledge it. You bash brands because you had lemons and that is what you continue to deny.

5) I see and that is the difference between me and you because I strongly insist and test my pens in the penshop before buying them and therefore had never a single disappointing buying experience and also a five star customer service is what I value.

6) If Rolex and MB were so Mediocre they would not be in the business till today. Seiko is just a middle of the range japanese brand, so I wouldn't compare them to Rolex. An eta 2892 costs 250$ in its highest grade but it hasn't the same reliability rate and resistance to shocks as a 3035 let alone a 3135 or let alone a vintage inhouse cal 1010 or 1020. I find it more hypocritical to claim the coaxial is fully proven when it is just a 9 years old movement made in three versions and not a movement that was proven during two decades unlike the 3135.The problems with the 4130 were solved immediately that is not the case with the 33xx.

7) There are very few shops who are 7 decades in the business and who know pens as well as Mr Mora does. Mr Mora is a vintage and second hand pen expert. Find me a penshop in the USA that is still in the business since the 1930, there is none. Experienced pen repairers like experienced watchmakers are a scarcity in the USA except Richard Binder, Ron Zorn, John Mottishaw and another guy whose I forgot his name none else repairs pens in the USA.
Dubiel is a collector and a collector is not someone who is really into the sales or repair of fountain pens that is why I am not taking in account a collector's book.

We will never agree, it is impossible.


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## cedarman320

Mathew J said:


> Georges,
> It is obvious once again you and I just won't agree on this so why bother arguing??.........Georges, I just don't think we will ever agree as said above.





georges zaslavsky said:


> This will be my final reply......We will never agree, it is impossible.


Glad to see you gents could come to an agreement:-d

Rick


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## Mathew J

Georges, I resolved not to continue this however you raise a few points that I just feel compelled to address...

1. As for my criticism of Omega in the past, I don't know how many times I can apologize for that, I did everything in my power to bring the brand down to justify my buying Rolex at a far greater cost, and in retrospect it was a mistake...I have learned from that mistake and won't make it again. Fail to see how this is an embarressment for any community though? It was naivety on my part, and also a desire to justify an emotional desire over a logical one.

2. As for quality, it isn't like we are talking one Montblanc pen here Georges, nor were we talking one Rolex, I had three Rolex watches and almost a dozen montblancs pass through my hands, you'd think with those odds if the product was that good they would have been able to impress me at least once yet they never did. So while one can make the argument that I have horrible luck, I just wouldn't buy it because if these companies were even decent the likelyhood of that happening wouldn't be possible.

I had a Pelikan with a faulty nib which I exchanged for a good one yet you don't see me criticizing that brand do you? likewise I had a cross that had a barrel end corrode....and yet I hold cross pens as being a good value.

Rolex and Montblanc continually leave me less than impressed especially when you consider what else is available and for what price, In my eyes there is a lack of caring from these companies for their customer. This seems to be the nature of the beast though as I often feel this way about market leaders and their products. Not to mention Montblanc's diversification into leather goods, fragrances, and other lifestyle accessories...talk about tacky, I would rather support companies that focus on making pens and not those selling an image, luckily the companies who focus on pens seem to make ones that write well out of the box, not just look good in a shirt pocket.

Here are two great quotes from FPN re the topic of Montblanc and Rolex that sum up my thoughts perfectly:



> I think of them (Montblanc) as the Rolex of pens. Rolex makes a good watch, but there are better examples of the craft available for far less money. Still, it's the Rolex name that has practically become the chronographic equivalent of Kleenex. While a Rolex wouldn't be at the top of my watch list, I wouldn't by any means turn down a Yacht-Master if someone offered one to me. Similarly, while I'm not rushing out to buy a Mont Blanc pen, I wouldn't turn down a Mont Blanc Copernicus if it appeared in my stocking next week.





> I agree with your analogy that MB are the Rolex of pens. MB pens and Rolex watches are my favourite rant. "The great unwashed" tend to think of Rolex as "the watch", but it is far from that; I'd rank it in the second or third tier from the top of the luxury watches with the top tier being Patek Phillippe, Jaeger le Coutre, Vacheron Constantin, UN and some others. Rolex makes very good watches, but they're no better than Omega, IWC and the like; where Rolex has differentiated itself is in pricing and IMO their watches are outrageously priced. Where the analogy breaks down, IMO, is that MB does not produce the same quality pens as Rolex produces watches. Ironic isn't it that MB has moved into watches; I guess they took their cue from Rolex; perhaps Rolex should get into pens. And the gravy train continues.





> Let's make this a fair match-up. Why didn't you suggest sending both pens to a good nib person and comparing them. I contend a $20 Japanese/Chinese/American/German/Italian/etc. Pen tuned to the same specification as a an overpriced pen will write very similar.
> 
> For the test, let's use the heavier of the two pens as a pattern and make a cover for the lighter/smaller of the two and force folks to test the pens blindfolded. THAT, would be a test. I think the participants should be asked if 'one pen is worth X times the difference of the other?' too. Hell, a third pen could even be introduced. Something that cost a bit less than a *MontBlanc* but was a 'quality' pen.
> 
> That would make the test 'fair'. The pens could all be camouflaged and only have markings on them indicating pen "A, B or C".
> 
> But, you may not like the results. I would separate fact from fantasy.





> "If Richard Binder would tune up a nib I am sure the nib weather its steal or gold,big or small would feel amazing.
> The one thing not even Richard can do is add that special thing called magic to a pen.
> That magic is the overall product,its how it makes you feel not just the nib.
> You see I dont care my MB 149 isnt the best writer in the collection,it is still my favorite pen.To be my favorite pen a pen doent have to be the best writer it need that special magic that makes it stand out.What is that magic is something I cant really explain I simply know its there like love to a woman,I know its there but cant explain it.Thank god I dont buy my pens just to write with them because then I would sell all my pens and stay only with my Omas Paragon.Actualy it would be great because I would save a lot of money I spend every month on pens."
> 
> Well goodguy,
> 
> Let us just say you and I have different impressions of the MB line. While you call it magic, I would use a metaphor of a fellow standing in the street flashing his private parts. Except, rather than being arrested for 'indecent exposure' he would be given a ticket for 'inadequate exposure'.
> 
> No amount of marketing will add that bull manure 'magic' for me. I do purchase pens for the exclusive use of writing. I never buy for 'style' alone. I am as comfortable pulling out a an old oxidized BHR pen as i am a new Pelikan. To me it is where the nib and paper connect, the rest is 'window dressing'.
> 
> While I might enjoy writing with a MB that had the nib properly tuned, It would probably break as I don't baby pens or any other tool I have or carry. It is not that I abuse them, it is just that a pen will fall out of a pocket or get knocked off a desk in my world. I could destroy 10 Parker "51"s for the cost of a MB149. I have a fleet of "51"s. I believe each has a higher value than a pen known to be fragile sold by a company known for its' customer service, though not in a positive way.
> 
> But, if you want to own *MontBlanc* things and put them in a case - hey, It's your money and it is a free country


And Georges, if some of these comments seem familiar it is because you contributed to this thread in your usual fashion...in defense of Montblanc and Rolex...so no need to rehash your same arguments, and no none of these quotes were things that I contributed.

3. Yes, one thread but it seems my other threads on other boards re. this subject seem to strike a nerve with you...remember I only replied to the OP about the topic, you started bringing up my previous contributions elsewhere. And while there are those who love MB, the fact is there are those who also don't.

4. Your Aurora comments are on par with my Montblanc comments George, totally subjective...you obviously don't appreciate the company/style wheras I find it to be at least as nice if not nicer than the meistersuck line  And my 146 was about on par with the 146 I had, the difference was the Aurora was alot cheaper.

5. I like what I percieve is good, and I don't discriminate simply because of where a product is made. I like the Namiki because it is an excellent writer and a fair price, I like the idea of Sailor because of much the same. I fail to see how this has anything to do with MB, and again your arguments for customer service are weak, like I said with the amount of them I have owned I should have gotten a "good" one by now.

6. I test pens as well, which is why I never buy a Montblanc any more unless I can score one for 50% off or more, and even then I sell it as at that price it is still a letdown...

7. This was the point that struck me...so your telling me that because Rolex and MB sell at the top of their niche markets then they must be "good" or "great"....something I disagree with and insist that they can be just "ok" and people will still buy them simply because of their name brand cachet....look at Bose, horrible junk yet people buy it and hold it in high regard because of their marketing/perception, mercedes was much the same and even when compared to others the cost and reliability aren't good, land rover another example...Ferregamo, Armani...there are plenty of companies that are percieved to be the best when in reality there are others arguably better....I can go on with other brands but fear I would start some interesting flame wars. Further if you bother to read James Dowling's post on the PF of Timezone you will see that Alain Dominique Perrin said that: _consumers are being asked to pay about 80 times cost price for top Bordeaux when the most expected in the luxury industry is 17 times the cost of production."_

Which could be expounded to Rolex and an example is the manufacturing cost of a Sub is then about what? $400...

I would argue that the 3035 and the 3135 have their shortcommings as well, but feel that it is wasted on you, and last I remember the problems with the 4130 weren't solved immediately, just they weren't made as public nor as widely available as the 330X. And the Co Axial is incorporated into a proven movement with the cal 2892.

8. Luckily for me there have been some fantastic pen shops in the areas which I lived, not to mention the communities online and former locals like Mr. Dubiel who knew their stuff, someone I would equate to the Walt Odets of the pen community.and his book was a repair manual...your guy has a vested interest in MB as do all who sell them....the local shop here has been open since 1948 FWIW.

But yes, we will never agree.


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## jhowton

Isn't there a time-out corner around here somewhere? o|o|o|

To get back to the original question (assuming the OP is still reading this thread) - Costco probably does sell genuine Montblanc pens but are not an AD so you probably don't get any manufacturer warranty. Whether their current offerings are worth the $169 selling price, only you can decide but even if you buy one and regret your decision after the fact, their return policy is stellar.


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## Mathew J

jhowton said:


> Isn't there a time-out corner around here somewhere? o|o|o|
> 
> To get back to the original question (assuming the OP is still reading this thread) - Costco probably does sell genuine Montblanc pens but are not an AD so you probably don't get any manufacturer warranty. Whether their current offerings are worth the $169 selling price, only you can decide but even if you buy one and regret your decision after the fact, their return policy is stellar.


True that, even if you don't like the pen years from now I believe you can still return it with them

plus depending on their price, chances are you can sell it on ebay for about what you paid.


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## anonymousmoose

If you like pens and your going to asia visit Hong Kong. I picked up two MB's for $595 Australian Dollars. Brand new, warranty and dealer stamp. Here in Australia they sell just one for $550.

These are the ones I picked up, minus the fountain in the middle. Next time I go back I'll grab it to complete the collection.


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## Cortney Jay

People produce different items specifically for Costco/Walmart/Sams and such. They definitely cut corners on some. But I'd trust Costco before any other store. They stand behind themselves and what they sell.


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