# New Grand Seiko GADA watch, SBGR309 VS SBGA203



## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

Just as the title thread implies. SBGR309 VS SBGA203? Which one?

I will be replacing my explorer 214270 with a GS. The SBGA cost around $400-$500 more, and some can be found around the same price pre-owned as a SBGR309 new. Leaning toward SBGR309. But i need a accurate movement, important. 

SBRG309 pros: 

1. Bigger at 42mm ( prefer bigger, big guy). 
2. Sportier looking? 
3. Full mechanical? 
4. Cheaper new. 
5. Accurate movement vs other mechanicals but less than spring drive. 
6. Preferred bracelet( no polish). 

Cons: 

1. less accurate than spring drive

SBGA203 pros. 

1. More accurate movement
2. 41mm perfect size? 
3. Just as sporty? 

Cons. 

None than i can think of? Not as sporty maybe?

I looked everywhere and there isn’t much info or reviews on the SBGR309. Or the SBGA 203. Hence this post.


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## Alysandir (Jun 29, 2016)

It might help to understand what your reasons are for moving away from what many consider to be the ultimate sporty GADA watch. Clearly it wasn't doing it for you, so what did it lack that you believe GS is going to have?

Regards,
Alysandir


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

I only like to spend around $5000 for any watch, my rolex is the only watch that exceeded my set price range. No problem since it was the best GADA at its price point for build quality. Which is important to me. 

It lacks nothing. Other than i feel the GS is a better watch with better build quality. I don’t really care what it says on the dial. I like to have a small collection, a GADA, Diver and a chrono. After collecting for many years i found i only wear three watches on a regular basis since i got a Apple watch for fitness purposes. 

I am not getting rid of my explorer for what it lacks, but for what the GS gives that Rolex does not for me. The build quality isn’t even close between the two in my opinion. One by mostly machine, the other by hand. Compared my explorer under a loupe to a SBGR309. Needless to say i kinda felt ripped off for spending $6000 on my Rolex, brand name not withstanding. That bothered me. Alot. That would be the main reason. I really don’t get the appeal of Rolex over a Patek, VC, JLC? Never understood it. I have compared my explorer to my brothers Patek calatrava and VC overseas. My rolex Explorer wasn’t even in the same ballpark. The GS is i looked at. The dial and case finishing, hands are on par with higher end brands, dare i say even better? My explorer is not. Its that simple. To me quality matters, more than name recognition, GS gives me better quality. 

Since i like to keep a small collection, one has to go. Having a three watch collection, i want the best GADA watch i can get for build quality, accuracy, and looks. The Explorer fits two of those, the GS fits all three. For the money, GS is the best quality you can find for the price. In my opinion. For what is important to me the GS is the better choice. 

I parse watches into two categories , hand made and mass produced. Rolex is high end mass produced, like Omega. GS falls closer into the latter category of hand made. I don’t really want to spend over $5000 for a mass produced watch. Hand made is another story. The GS is mostly hand made, and cheaper than $5000. My explorer is not. 

I really don't want to turn this into a Rolex vs GS thread. Nothing against Rolex, just my personal opinion. No question in my mind between the two.

With that being said, the Explorer might be the best GADA on the plant for most, legendary piece. Just not for me.


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

You might as well experience a Spring Drive. The accuracy and beauty will wow you. In a frequent rotation like yours this might matter a lot.


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

I was thinking the same thing. But i got to see and hold the SBGR309, and it is more sport than dress, in my estimation. I see alot of posts on here saying to make sure you see the GS you want in person since they can seem different than their pictures. The SBGR309 has that GADA look going for it. No doubt. The is very little info on either watch by owners on watchuseek or anywhere for that matter. Would love for a owner to chime in or someone who owns a SBGA203. 

The SBGA203 was not available at the time to see. It looks more dress in pictures than the SBGR309. Since i have a three watch rotation i need it to do double duty as a GADA. My Heuer Autavia can work but not ideal.


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## berni29 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hi

This is a difficult one.

I have had the SBGA003 (old logo version of the 203) and currently have the Ti version of the same watch the JDM SBGA041. I also have the SBGR307, silver dial version of the 309.

I also swapped a Rolex (GMTII) for my first GS (SBGE001) and feel the same way.

I have 10 GS's and the SBGA003 probably surprised me the most because it was not love at first sight. It is a watch that really grew on me, which is why I sought out the Ti version when I learnt about it. I like Ti watches.

The dial is black, but under certain lighting a charcoal grey. And it has that SD movement which is just incredible. I agree that it is a proper GADA choice.

The SBGR307/9 is for me a little bit less of a GADA because of the lesser (but still nice) movement, which just cannot match the accuracy of the SD. Also the lack of a PR reduces its utility. I love knowing the state of wind of the watch just by looking. But there again I rotate a lot more watches.

Also for me the size of the 307 is a bit of a statement, which is nice sometimes, but not all the time. I liken this watch to a Bentley car. Stately but a bit of a brute! But as you say for you this may not me an issue.

So in my opinion, for what you want and what you are coming from I would get the SBGA003. And make sure you haggle for a good discount.

As an aside, the black Explorer I is the only Rolex I would ever consider wearing.

Best of luck, you will be happy with either I am sure.

This is my SBGA003 in the office.



















Berni


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

Thank you berni29! 

I assume you are talking about getting the SBGA203 and not the 003? Also what is dressier between the two? I feel the SBGA203 would be from the looks of it and the size. I was more leaning to the SBGR309 because of the look and the size. Smaller watches do not look good on me as i am thick, with a bodybuilder type build. 

For me a GADA is the look and feel of the watch, that can do dress, casual, etc. 

So you feel the SBGA passes as a GADA? 

Titanium watches i really do not like, i like the weight of steel. Never had a watch with a PR so i cannot comment on that. But i will take your word for it. 

Wish they made the spring drive in the SBGR 309 case. Accuracy is important, but its not as if the 9S68 isn’t accurate. What is the accuracy of your SBGR307?


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## berni29 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hello there

Yes, the SBGA203.

OK I see what you mean about the watch size! In that case I think you would be happier with the SBGR309. 

I can’t remember exactly how accurate my 307 is, but it’s like +2 seconds a day or something. It’s as good as my high beat. But with the SD’s we are usually talking fractions of a second. 

Now I know more about you I really do think the the 309 is going to suit you really well. A perfect fit from the sounds of it in fact. 

All the best and train well!

By the way, I am into Chinese internal martial arts, almost the polar opposite of bodybuilding in some respects. 

Berni


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

Thank you for your input and reply bernie29! It is much appreciated. 

Yeah, nothing beats a spring drive. But if the 9S68 can match my explorer and sea-master of 2 sec a day, which you indicate likely can, i will be happy. 

My bodybuilder days are over, mainly power-lift now to keep in shape. After you hit 45 it is hard to keep up with younger guys. Lol

Thank you once again!


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## Tonhao (Dec 23, 2017)

Having tried both the automatic and the Spring Drive, I can’t help but feel that SD is the child that Seiko likes more. It feels more thought-out and all the exciting limited editions and novel dials come to SD first. Plus the power reserve is nice, I know it is a polarizing design choice but you got to admit it looks flawless under a 10X loupe. 

The automatic will hit +2-3s a day brand new, Spring Drive is +1s or less a day, both have flawless accuracy. The movements feel a bit different though, in SD there is less moving parts to see and the complete silence may be a bit strange at first. Also, SD is thinner by a millimeter or so. Sits better on the wrist. Either way, it’s hard to go wrong!


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

Wouldn’t the finishing be the same on both? Had a snowflake under the loupe at the same AD and couldn’t see a difference between that and the SBGR309 in quality other than the intricate dial. The hands and indices were equal on both. Maybe they do. I couldn’t tell at the store. Looked at the SBGR311 auto, amazing dial. But i think the SBGR309 and the heritage collection is interesting in that they are more classic in design, than some spring drive models.

I would love to try a spring drive but the case sizes are a little on the small size for me. 2 seconds is good for me. Same accuracy as my explorer and seamaster. 

No noise? Really? As in zero?


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## Mr.Jones82 (Jul 15, 2018)

As far as aesthetics go, how do you feel about the indices? I prefer the indices on the SBGR personally. I've owned GS's with both styles, and while both still sparkle and are great, the SBGR indices are mirror polished and light and reflections move fluidly across them. It is something to behold.


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## Tonhao (Dec 23, 2017)

Dudeman1973 said:


> Wouldn't the finishing be the same on both? Had a snowflake under the loupe at the same AD and couldn't see a difference between that and the SBGR309 in quality other than the intricate dial. The hands and indices were equal on both. Maybe they do. I couldn't tell at the store. Looked at the SBGR311 auto, amazing dial. But i think the SBGR309 and the heritage collection is interesting in that they are more classic in design, than some spring drive models.
> 
> No noise? Really? As in zero?


Both receive the same quality finishing of course, I meant that SD is (at least currently) positioned as Grand Seiko's flagship line.

About tradition vs new - I think the classic GS indices (double thick at 12) look better than the arrow shaped ones on Snowflake and most other SDs. Under a loupe there are minuscule differences between indices though, as in satin vs mirror finish, flat vs linear grooves. Some dials flash more light than others, I believe this is due to the different polishing of indices.

And yep, absolutely silent unless you shake the rotor. I owned an Accutron once, that one has a high pitched sound. Not SD.


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

Mr.Jones82 said:


> As far as aesthetics go, how do you feel about the indices? I prefer the indices on the SBGR personally. I've owned GS's with both styles, and while both still sparkle and are great, the SBGR indices are mirror polished and light and reflections move fluidly across them. It is something to behold.


I agree, as i too prefer the indices on the SBGR to the SBGA. I didn't have a SBGA 203 to compare it to in hand at the AD so i compared it to the indices on the snow flake since they are the same as the SBGA203. You can somewhat see some of what you are talking about from the pictures.

The indices are a little bigger and bolder on the SBGR. If i am not mistaken the logo appeared to be slightly bigger as well. Making for a more in my opinion 'sporty' look, as opposed to dressy. The larger 42mm of the SBGR also adds to that as well.


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

Tonhao said:


> Both receive the same quality finishing of course, I meant that SD is (at least currently) positioned as Grand Seiko's flagship line.
> 
> About tradition vs new - I think the classic GS indices (double thick at 12) look better than the arrow shaped ones on Snowflake and most other SDs. Under a loupe there are minuscule differences between indices though, as in satin vs mirror finish, flat vs linear grooves. Some dials flash more light than others, I believe this is due to the different polishing of indices.
> 
> And yep, absolutely silent unless you shake the rotor. I owned an Accutron once, that one has a high pitched sound. Not SD.


I see. Didn't know that about the polishing on the indices. TY.

I agree, the SD appears to be positioned at the top of their lineup. I too prefer the more classic boulder indices. The zero sound is just nuts. Like a quartz sound wise, but mechanical in operation. The SD is truly amazing. The more i learn about GS, the more impressed i am. I feel like their build quality and technology is on par with knowing the secret sauce to my grandmas spaghetti. Like some big secret that was revealed to me that no one else knows. &#55357;&#56838;

How don't more watch enthusiasts appreciate them more? If you know they have better quality than most brands other than the top brands( even then they are on par in some cases) 
I feel its just nuts spending twice as much for inferior quality. Thats just me though.


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## yokied (Jan 7, 2017)

Interesting thread. The reasoning all seems pretty sound, including your take on Rolex and GS. I understand the GADA is the top priority but you also want to experience the best GS craftsmanship and keep a small focussed collection. To me, the best of GS means Spring Drive and you might regret passing over it a little further down the road. 

I would agree that the SBGA is less GADA. I love the polished touches of the SBGA bracelet but I want mine to dress up ie go in the other direction to you. As far as I can tell, the difference is mostly in the bracelet. Maybe they can be switched or brushed? The 1mm difference in size is pretty negligible. If you're a big guy I would have thought they both would look very similar on wrist.


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

SBGR - can't stand the PR on the dial. Both are very nice watches!


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## blowlamp (Jan 15, 2018)

I have the current Explorer, which I bought after I got my GS sbgv023.
If I had to sell one of these two similar(ish) looking watches, then the Explorer would be the one to go.
The GS is far more interestingly designed, and that goes for the bracelet as well. The clasp isn't as 'technical' as on the Explorer, but once adjusted correctly, it is comfortable and much less bulky. I prefer the simplicity of the GS clasp and don't see it as any less secure than the Explorer's, despite the common view that Rolex are the best.


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## groooooove (Mar 16, 2018)

i don't buy that "not full mechanical" stuff about spring drive. look at the movements.... they're clearly mechanical. 

regardless, i think if you're going GS, you should really get a spring drive. the pinnacle of fine finishing, innovation, and just high level execution of what appears "simple" in a nice way. 

that being said, you can't go wrong with their more traditional mechanical movements either..


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

Over time, I had owned a number of Spring Drives. Awesome watch period. 

Outstanding bracelet, case finishing, the seconds hand sweep is awesome to watch when you are in the meeting from hell that isn't ever going to end......Highly entertaining. 

Get what you like best as between the two you are looking at, no wrong choice. 

Good luck.


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## orbitalheel (Jan 26, 2018)

Wow that's funny, my buddy was actually just talking to me a few weeks ago about his decision to pick up a GS and both of these were on his short list. He ultimately ended up going with the SBGA203 for the Spring Drive and because he was able to secure a good deal on it.

Go with your gut here, you can't go wrong!


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

yokied said:


> Interesting thread. The reasoning all seems pretty sound, including your take on Rolex and GS. I understand the GADA is the top priority but you also want to experience the best GS craftsmanship and keep a small focussed collection. To me, the best of GS means Spring Drive and you might regret passing over it a little further down the road.
> 
> I would agree that the SBGA is less GADA. I love the polished touches of the SBGA bracelet but I want mine to dress up ie go in the other direction to you. As far as I can tell, the difference is mostly in the bracelet. Maybe they can be switched or brushed? The 1mm difference in size is pretty negligible. If you're a big guy I would have thought they both would look very similar on wrist.


i would love a spring drive, but the largest case diameter they have is 41mm. The dial of the SBGR 309 is bolder with larger indices and a larger logo. I also prefer the bracelet. I know i will regret it. But the accuracy of the 9S68 should be a good alternative.


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

A agree. That is why my explorer 214270 is going. I will probably miss the easy link system since i use it but what i am going to gain with the GS should more than make up for it.

I find it odd that the SBGR309 isn't more popular than it is on here. Classic design, sporty look. There are not any reviews that i can find either. I know spring drive is wanted most but the 9S68 movement is one of the best, meets or exceeds what Rolex and Omega has on offer. The technology they use is quite amazing to build it, and it is put together and regulated by skilled watchmakers and tested over 17 days, adjusted in 6 positions with MEMS manufacturing.

It is anti-magnetic up to 4800G with a spron 610 mainspring and balance spring. Not as much as my Omega but not bad. Spring drive has a spron 610 mainspring but its anti-magnetic properties i am not sure of. The 4800 rating is directly from GS USA. It isn't official but was tested and 4800 was the rating tested for the 9S movement. This 4,800 A/M is the standard for any watch that bears the antimagnetic badge, it may be even more resistant than this but this is what was what was tested. Spron 610 is rated to over 10000 A/M. Why GS doesn't advertise this i am not sure. Probably the same reason they have such wide range tolerances for accuracy when the actual watches perform much better than GS says they should.

It is mostly the look that makes a good GADA watch, i feel the Spring Drive is a little on the dressy side for my taste. SBGR on the sporty side, but can do dress when needed.

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=6898323&rid=12189#msg_6898323

Spron 510, not 610. 610 is superior.

https://www.sii.co.jp/en/me/spron/support/spec/#spec2-4


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## Covenant (Apr 22, 2009)

Dudeman1973 said:


> It is anti-magnetic up to 4800G with a spron 610 mainspring and balance spring. Not as much as my Omega but not bad. Spring drive has a spron 610 mainspring but its anti-magnetic properties i am not sure of.


I can help out with this one (been researching it myself lately):
https://deployant.com/ask-deployant-featuring-joe-kirk-on-grand-seiko-spring-drive/

Joe Kirk is the manager for the Seiko boutique in Miami and their national training manager.

Best of luck in selecting your new GADA! My 2c: I vote for the Spring Drive.


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## smurfdon (Sep 27, 2018)

My choice would probably be the SBGA203.


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## Dudeman1973 (May 22, 2015)

Covenant said:


> I can help out with this one (been researching it myself lately):
> https://deployant.com/ask-deployant-featuring-joe-kirk-on-grand-seiko-spring-drive/
> 
> Joe Kirk is the manager for the Seiko boutique in Miami and their national training manager.
> ...


So its the same as the 9S series. I would vote spring drive myself other than the look and feel of actual watch itself. But having a thick build smaller watches really look silly on me. 41mm is usually the smallest i go. My explorer is 39mm and looks good but small.

The SBGA 203 being smaller and the dial being more dressy than the SBGR 309 doesn't exactly have the sporty/look a GADA should have having tried on the SBGA 309 from what little i can tell. if it was just a vote on just the movement than it would be a easy decision. But it seems the only thing i am giving up is a second or more a day between the two movements. Same power reserve, anti-magnetism, same build quality.

I am going to make a final decision once i try on the SBGA 203. Given the strong feedback for the spring drive i will give it a good look.

I just want to thank all who responded on this thread. It is much appreciated. You all are what makes this watch community and this forum as great as it is. I will do a review on whatever watch i get as there aren't too many or zero for either watch.

Once again thank you. Cheers.


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## Doug2943 (Mar 14, 2019)

Alysandir said:


> It might help to understand what your reasons are for moving away from what many consider to be the ultimate sporty GADA watch. Clearly it wasn't doing it for you, so what did it lack that you believe GS is going to have?
> 
> Regards,
> Alysandir


Sorry for this, but what is "GADA"


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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

There are GS Spring Drive watches in bigger cases, such as the diver SBGA229.

Maybe not what you are looking for, but you are not limited to a 41 mm case with Spring Drive.


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## HiggsBoson (Oct 12, 2009)

Doug2943 said:


> Sorry for this, but what is "GADA"


*G*o *A*nywhere *D*o *A*nything.


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## Roamy360 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hi Sparrowhawk: I've been looking for other Idaho watch people thinking that if we came up with enough we might be able to have a watch get together. Let me know if you are interested. I live in Boise and know of one other Idaho member that lives in town. I've got a pretty large collection of of Seikos, Tudor, Omegas, and lots of vintage pieces. I'm always looking to see new watches that I'm not familiar with and seeing what other people are wearing. Thanks, Gary


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## smurfdon (Sep 27, 2018)

sbgr309 looks really perfect.


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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

Dudeman1973 said:


> i would love a spring drive, but the largest case diameter they have is 41mm. The dial of the SBGR 309 is bolder with larger indices and a larger logo. I also prefer the bracelet. I know i will regret it. But the accuracy of the 9S68 should be a good alternative.


Thankfully and fortunately this is not the case. GS makes watches with Spring Drive movements in the 44 mm ish case width.

For example, some of the SBGE series, the 215, 001, 037, and 039 for example.


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## Doug2943 (Mar 14, 2019)

HiggsBoson said:


> *G*o *A*nywhere *D*o *A*nything.


Thank you, so much to learn...


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## Doug2943 (Mar 14, 2019)

Dudeman1973 said:


> Just as the title thread implies. SBGR309 VS SBGA203? Which one?
> 
> I will be replacing my explorer 214270 with a GS. The SBGA cost around $400-$500 more, and some can be found around the same price pre-owned as a SBGR309 new. Leaning toward SBGR309. But i need a accurate movement, important.
> 
> ...


After reading all of the thread attached, I found a SBGA203, after trying on both watch's thru AD in Seattle, and purchased my first GS.

I thought I wanted a snowflake, but my eyes ? did not pick up the time well. 64 year old eyes do not work as well.

I spent 27 years in federal law enforcement, wearing watches that would be broken, I finally got my grail watch


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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

Roamy360 said:


> Hi Sparrowhawk: I've been looking for other Idaho watch people thinking that if we came up with enough we might be able to have a watch get together. Let me know if you are interested. I live in Boise and know of one other Idaho member that lives in town. I've got a pretty large collection of of Seikos, Tudor, Omegas, and lots of vintage pieces. I'm always looking to see new watches that I'm not familiar with and seeing what other people are wearing. Thanks, Gary


Hi Gary,

Sorry, don't know how I missed your post until now.

I may be up for a get together of Idaho WISs, it sounds like a good idea. I am in IF, so that's a little bit of a distance.

We can confab more at your discretion.

Cheers,

Craig


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## berni29 (Sep 8, 2007)

Doug2943 said:


> After reading all of the thread attached, I found a SBGA203, after trying on both watch's thru AD in Seattle, and purchased my first GS.
> 
> I thought I wanted a snowflake, but my eyes  did not pick up the time well. 64 year old eyes do not work as well.
> 
> I spent 27 years in federal law enforcement, wearing watches that would be broken, I finally got my grail watch


Hi

Congratulations and I wish you well to wear it. It's a lovely and underrated watch. I used to have the old logo version the 003. The dial looks black, but also takes on a very dark slate like colour in some lights. It's certainly a very legible watch.

The only reason I sold it was I changed to the 041 which is the identical watch but in titanium with lume. It's one of my very favourite watches. Here is a pic of my departed 003










And the 041



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yokied (Jan 7, 2017)

Congrats Doug and welcome to the world of worry-free accuracy! Wonder how the OP is getting on with his decision?


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