# The history of the Longines VHP



## ppaulusz

Timeline:
*1984* - Longines introduced the very first VHP: Longines Conquest VHP (VHP = Very High Precision) with the famous dual-oscillator Cal.276.2 movement (jointly developed by Longines and AsuLab). That movement used digital thermocompensation (inhibition) and was rated for +/-10 seconds/year. It had lithium battery. This very first VHP movement did not have digital calibration terminal!
*1985* - ETA entered to the picture (thanks to the then newly established Swatch Group) and improved the original VHP design by adding digital calibration terminal to the movement. The new ETA modified movement used normal 1.55 battery instead of lithium battery. The modified movement is called L174.2 (ETA 255.561).
Later on - thanks to some very minor modifications to the movement - got a new Longines caliber ID: L174.4 (ETA 255.561)
There was a "sister" model (without time-zone function but with quick-set date function): L173.2 (ETA 255.511). That sister model was used in Longines slim-line dress watches and instead of VHP, there was VERY HIGH PRECISION written on the dial.
*Late 1980s - early 1990s* - ETA made major modification to the electronic module of the VHP: the second oscillator was replaced by a thermistor (built into the IC). The accuracy specification and the thermocompensation scheme (inhibition) has not got changed by the modification. That major update resulted new caliber IDs: L237.2 (ETA 255.563)
The electronic modules of ETA 255.561, ETA 255.563 and ETA 255.511 are interchangable! The mechanical modules of ETA 255.561 and ETA 255.563 are also interchangable!
*1996* - Longines introduced the Longines Conquest VHP Perpetual Calendar watch with the newly developed (in 1995 by ETA) L546.2 (ETA 252.611) movement featuring perpetual calendar and 10 years-lasting 3V lithium battery. That new movement continued to use the time-tested inhibition scheme for thermocompensation coupled with digital calibration (via the digital calibration terminal)!

Here come the pics (most of them are from the net):


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## Catalin

Good work - but generally it is not a bad idea to provide some links that add extra validation - for instance only very few of us know that for the 1996 part there is a page mentioning it on the Longines site ...


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## ppaulusz

Catalin said:


> Good work - but generally it is not a bad idea to provide some links that add extra validation - for instance only very few of us know that for the 1996 part there is a page mentioning it on the Longines site ...


... and even fewer of you got the trouble to have a dozen or so emails exchanged with ETA/Longines about the Longines VHP.
Put modesty aside for a moment: I don't need validation in the subject of the Longines VHP. I could give a lecture or two at the Longines headquarter in Switzerland about the Longines VHP.b-)


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## Eeeb

ppaulusz said:


> ... and even fewer of you got the trouble to have a dozen or so emails exchanged with ETA/Longines about the Longines VHP.
> Put modesty aside for a moment: I don't need validation in the subject of the Longines VHP. I could give a lecture or two at the Longines headquarter in Switzerland about the Longines VHP.b-)


Excellent post from The Expert... I did not know about the very first VHP... I passed up buying one because I thought someone had swapped in a non-calibrating Longines quartz movement :-s :-|

Any idea what the 1000 Oe on the titanium Conquest means? I've never seen it.

Almost all of the VHPs I have seen were in Conquest encasements. But I remember seeing a Flagship with TC... was that only the last calibre that were encased in Flagships?


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## Catalin

ppaulusz said:


> ... and even fewer of you got the trouble to have a dozen or so emails exchanged with ETA/Longines about the Longines VHP.
> Put modesty aside for a moment: I don't need validation in the subject of the Longines VHP. I could give a lecture or two at the Longines headquarter in Switzerland about the Longines VHP.b-)


As we can all see - modesty is not your strong point - but in my eyes to have ANY real value whatsoever in this internet age you need links (or references in written research - if you are not familiar with that) - if you don't have them you are most likely not a serious source ...


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## dwjquest

Super information from the ETA Master!


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## Eeeb

Catalin said:


> As we can all see - modesty is not your strong point - but in my eyes to have ANY real value whatsoever in this internet age you need links (or references in written research - if you are not familiar with that) - if you don't have them you are most likely not a serious source ...


Sometimes we take ourselves way too seriously. This forum is not a refereed journal even though we may be the world's leading source of technical information on quartz watches.

So I hope we don't go down this trail with a side thread which will no doubt become acrimonious. (Ohhh... nice word! :-d)

Thanks for your friendly cooperation.


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## ppaulusz

Eeeb said:


> Excellent post from The Expert... I did not know about the very first VHP... I passed up buying one because I thought someone had swapped in a non-calibrating Longines quartz movement :-s :-|
> 
> Any idea what the 1000 Oe on the titanium Conquest means? I've never seen it.
> 
> Almost all of the VHPs I have seen were in Conquest encasements. But I remember seeing a Flagship with TC... was that only the last calibre that were encased in Flagships?


Jim, hardly anyone knows about the first VHP. In my opinion, you should not buy that one unless you need it for its historical significance. It lacks that all important digtital calibration terminal.

1000 Oe = 1000 Oersted = around 80000 A/m
It shows the watch's antimagnetic properties.

You're right the Longines Flagship VHP Perpetual Calendar was the last one of the VHPs:


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## ppaulusz

dwjquest said:


> Super information from the ETA Master!


:thanks, Dave! You have both the L174.4 and the L237.2 VHP calibers!:-! I still remember when you sent me the picture of your L237.4. That's the one in my opening post!|> Actually, the L174.4 photo in the opening post is also from you!


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## ppaulusz

Catalin said:


> As we can all see - modesty is not your strong point - but in my eyes to have ANY real value whatsoever in this internet age you need links (or references in written research - if you are not familiar with that) - if you don't have them you are most likely not a serious source ...


:-d:-d:-d


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## Marijn

Eeeb said:


> Any idea what the 1000 Oe on the titanium Conquest means? I've never seen it.


I'm pretty sure that means it is deisgned/tested/able to function in a magnetic field of 1000 Oersted. That is equivalent to 79.577 A/m in SI units as used by IWC and Rolex to indicate magnetic field strength resistance in their well-known antimagnetic watch lines (as well as by Seiko in their less well-known HEQ antimagnetic watches). I'm guessing they used Oe instead of A/m as it makes for a nice round number.


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## ppaulusz

Marijn said:


> I'm pretty sure that means it is deisgned/tested/able to function in a magnetic field of 1000 Oersted. That is equivalent to 79.577 A/m in SI units as used by IWC and Rolex to indicate magnetic field strength resistance in their well-known antimagnetic watch lines (as well as by Seiko in their less well-known HEQ antimagnetic watches). I'm guessing they used Oe instead of A/m as it makes for a nice round number.


You're spot on, Sir!:-!


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## fstshrk

I really wish that Longines stuck one of these movements inside a diver case


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## Hans Moleman

Your VHP and ETA knowledge has served me very very well these last few years.
Keep it coming.
Thanks George!


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## ppaulusz

Hans Moleman said:


> Your VHP and ETA knowledge has served me very very well these last few years.
> Keep it coming.
> Thanks George!


:thanks, Hans, and thanks for your on-going tests datas that confirmed the theories about the thermocompensation scheme of the ETA quartz movements!:-! Or how about our joint effort to figure out the correct steps of the calibration of the ETA 252.611 ?!;-)


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## webvan

Very interesting as I know little about the VHP, one thing though, hasn't it been discontinued, since the last entryis for 1996 it's probably implied but it might still be worthing mentioning a date, if known.


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## ppaulusz

webvan said:


> Very interesting as I know little about the VHP, one thing though, hasn't it been discontinued, since the last entryis for 1996 it's probably implied but it might still be worthing mentioning a date, if known.


Discontinued in around 2006.


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## vizi

ppaulusz said:


> Timeline:
> *1984* - Longines introduced the very first VHP: Longines Conquest VHP (VHP = Very High Precision) with the famous dual-oscillator Cal.276.2 movement (jointly developed by Longines and AsuLab). That movement used digital thermocompensation (inhibition) and was rated for +/-10 seconds/year. It had lithium battery. This very first VHP movement did not have digital calibration terminal!
> *1985* - ETA entered to the picture (thanks to the then newly established Swatch Group) and improved the original VHP design by adding digital calibration terminal to the movement. The new ETA modified movement used normal 1.55 battery instead of lithium battery. The modified movement is called L174.2 (ETA 255.561).
> Later on - thanks to some very minor modifications to the movement - got a new Longines caliber ID: L174.4 (ETA 255.561)
> There was a "sister" model (without time-zone function but with quick-set date function): L173.2 (ETA 255.511). That sister model was used in Longines slim-line dress watches and instead of VHP, there was VERY HIGH PRECISION written on the dial.
> *Late 1980s - early 1990s* - ETA made major modification to the electronic module of the VHP: the second oscillator was replaced by a thermistor (built into the IC). The accuracy specification and the thermocompensation scheme (inhibition) has not got changed by the modification. That major update resulted new caliber IDs: L237.2 (ETA 255.563)
> The electronic modules of ETA 255.561, ETA 255.563 and ETA 255.511 are interchangable! The mechanical modules of ETA 255.561 and ETA 255.563 are also interchangable!
> *1996* - Longines introduced the Longines Conquest VHP Perpetual Calendar watch with the newly developed (in 1995 by ETA) L546.2 (ETA 252.611) movement featuring perpetual calendar and 10 years-lasting 3V lithium battery. That new movement continued to use the time-tested inhibition scheme for thermocompensation coupled with digital calibration (via the digital calibration terminal)!
> 
> Here come the pics (most of them are from the net):


Excellent work!:-!


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## Bruce Reding

Again, excellent work, George! :-!



Eeeb said:


> Sometimes we take ourselves way too seriously.


Agreed, Jim, both about the sentiment and the coolness of "acrimonious". :-d


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## webvan

ppaulusz said:


> Discontinued in around 2006.


Just received the Flagship VHP I bought from another member and the papers are dated 23/07/2007, haven't seen any recent Longines serial number tables to check mine against.


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## ppaulusz

webvan said:


> Just received the Flagship VHP I bought from another member and the papers are dated 23/07/2007, haven't seen any recent Longines serial number tables to check mine against.


My model of the Longines Conquest VHP Perpetual Calendar was discontinued in around 1998. I bought the watch brand new (NOS) in 2006 so its papers are dated 2006...


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## Catalin

webvan said:


> Just received the Flagship VHP I bought from another member and the papers are dated 23/07/2007, haven't seen any recent Longines serial number tables to check mine against.


I just can't wait to see the 'accelerated results' on one of those ... :-!

Even more important would be if you could find the time for a long-term (12-24 months?) test with the video method, since that might also settle a little some of the talks on the 'unexpected moments' that have been apparently reported ...


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## webvan

Well going forward I plan to stick to "Video Testing" going forward ;-)

Not HEQ related but once again I'm annoyed by a bracelet not having fine adjustments or half-links for that matter so it's either too tight or too loose on my 7" wrist. Non plussed by the clipped back too, gave it a quick with a standard clipped back tool, but it seems it won't coe off easy...


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## webvan

webvan said:


> Just received the Flagship VHP I bought from another member and the papers are dated 23/07/2007, haven't seen any recent Longines serial number tables to check mine against.


Just heard back from the nice people at Longines in charge of the archives and they said that my particular watch was the L4.722.4 reference in the LONGINES Flagship Collection with calibre 546 VHP and had been produced in 2003.


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## akit110

While we're speaking of VHPs, is it still possible to have a Longines VHP from the 80s or early 90s (the gray titanium ones) overhauled by Longines to original specs? Are parts like crowns, bracelet parts etc still available? I have one in average condition and I would love to bring it back to its former glory.


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## Eeeb

Contact Longines. Only they will know.


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## qiongyi

Excellent post from! At first I did not know what is VHP, only when i see this post! So cool!


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## AlanJH

Hi there - first off I'm not a watch expert. However I came across this thread and thought I would post regarding my Longines Titanium VHP. I bought it new in 1984/5 (it was a long time ago so I can't be sure which year) and have worn it daily since that time. It still keeps time to within a couple of seconds a month and looks almost as good as the day I bought it. It did have a problem which I believe was quite common on some of the earlier models - this problem was discovered during it's first battery change which was performed by Longines. They discovered that some of the luminous (?) effect on the fingers had started to break up. Longines replaced the watch face free of charge. My watch has just undergone it's 5th battery change in 25 years and is working perfectly. The case and glass are unmarked despite my wearing it for work every day (I was a printer prior to retiring). The strap is also unmarked although there are some slight signs of wear on the gold plating of the strap. My watch differs in one respect: The face reads simply _VHP quartz _and has no mention of Titanium or Ti. The back of the case which is stainless steel reads as follows: Across the top - ''stainless steel back'' In the centre - ''Conquest XL'' and at the bottom - There are two symbols, each in a box - one is a fish and the other a bold letter S.

I hope this is of interest to you guys as you're obviously all completely nuts  I've had a number of watches in my time including a Rolex Oyster Perpetual and an Omega Seamaster but the Longines has always been ''My watch''


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## webvan

Hey welcome to the forums, it's not very often that an original vintage HEQ owner shows up! One thing we do like here are pictures so if you get a chance it would be great to see some of your watch, if you don't already use an image hosting service here is a nice and simple one : ImagiLIVE - Hébergement gratuit d'images


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## AlanJH

Some pics of the watch


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## chris01

I bought a Ti VHP in 1986, which ran for 24 years before it died, and it looked just like yours (except for the back), but it was all Ti. I seem to remember that prior to my watch, Longines' VHP model used some sort of surface-treated steel. My bracelet didn't wear too badly but it wasn't very strong and I had several links break at one end of the thin centre piece. Maybe yours isn't Ti?


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## AlanJH

I bought the watch from the big H Samuel branch in Manchester. I was told at the time that it was Titanium and with the saphire crystal glass it was the ideal watch to combat scratches and wear and tear. As a demonstration the sales guy took the watch outside into the street, took it from it's box and rubbed it vigorously against the brick wall. He wiped off the brick dust and sure enough the watch was as new. He then offered the watch to me to do the same, which I duly did.

The watch has never marked despite wearing it in a factory environment for many years. The only signs of wear are on the inside of the bracelet where the gold has rubbed thin.

The watch has been sent to Baume & Company in Manchester for battery replacement and re-sealing approx. every 5 years and has never failed. I still have the original spare links and when compared to the watch links, there is no discernable difference. I still have the original box and some paperwork, however, this is no mention of Titanium in the very brief instruction booklet.

Just a correction to my original post - the replacement face was done FOC in 1995 - 10 years after I purchased it!!! At the time I wasn't aware there was a problem with it until it went in for a replacement battery. They (Baum & Co) spotted the problem and the watch was sent to Longines for repair. That is service of the highest level.

Below are some more pics.


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## Hans Moleman

AlanJH said:


> As a demonstration the sales guy took the watch outside into the street, took it from it's box and rubbed it vigorously against the brick wall. He wiped off the brick dust and sure enough the watch was as new. He then offered the watch to me to do the same, which I duly did.


I love that sort of sales technique: 
The product can this; I'll show you.
These peanuts taste the best; have a few.

Nice looking watch too!


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## webvan

Wow, I had missed that in the previous post, pretty amazing because Ti does normally mark quite a bit as its softer than steel (makes it easier to rub off marks conversely). We've talked about Citizen's and Seiko's "Duractec" but I don't think anyone's put them to that kind of test, wonder what process Longines used to make that possibly...


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## chris01

Mine showed very little wear and hardly any scratches and scuffs after 24 years of daily wear. Sapphire was completely unmarked. Gold plating was getting tatty and, as I mentioned above, the bracelet wasn't strong enough.

Wish I could say the same for my Ti Exceed - the polished bezel was scratched to blazes after 12 months.


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## AlanJH

I've had a quick read-up on Titanium and it's properties. From what I can gather Titanium is normally alloyed with another metal although there are pure forms which are generally used in aircraft and weapons technology. Depending on what metal and the particular process the range of hardness runs from 4 which is equivalent to Iron up to 9 which is equivalent to sapphire and carborundum. The hardest Titanium is Titanium nitride ( TiN).

I suppose it all depends on precisely what form of Titanium is used in any particular watch. In all forms it excells for durability lightness and corrosion resistence and in some forms can be much harder than stainless steel.


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## webvan

Just got my grubby hands on the same watch as yours, had been looking for one for ages...It's been well worn but the glass and bezel are perfect. The back also has "Stainless Steel back" which indicates that the case is made of something different...could be titanium or some type of alloy, it works well anyway. Maybe it was already Titanium but they only decided to "market" it later by adding Ti on the dial.

It has the L237.2 (ETA 255.563) movement, the equivalent of the Omega 1445 (electronically) with the connectors you "tap" to regulate the watch not with the "wings" (like the 1441)

I also got an all steel version from the same person and that one's in worse shape but the price was right for a TC movement...it uses the earlier L174.2 (ETA 255.561/Omega 1441) that I might try to use to convert a Seamaster with Omega 1438/1538 into a TC watch like one of our friends here did.




























Interestingly these watches are so thin the battery is pressed in by the back, I'd never seen that before










One thing I'm trying to figure out is how to remove links on the bracelet...I may have to experiment with the one that's broken...


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## webvan

Been looking long and hard and can't see a way to resize the bracelet, anyone figured it out?


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## Eeeb

webvan said:


> Been looking long and hard and can't see a way to resize the bracelet, anyone figured it out?


My watchmaker did it for me... I didn't see how he did it. But I'll be seeing him sometime this week and will ask!


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## webvan

Thanks, looking forward to reading his reply, I wonder if you don't need to break the existing "riveted pins" and replace them with new ones...

As a side note, while most of the non-PC VHPs are of the smaller 33.5mm variety like mine and, the only larger seems to be the Conquest VHP Titanium 1000 Oersted wth its screwed in back and screw in crown, I assume its 37mm wide like the Conquest VHP Perpetuals.


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## chris01

It's not too difficult - there is no need to break anything!. There are three types of pin in these bracelets. Two are flush with the ends of the links and the third has a domed head.

1. One of each pair of flush pins is intended to be user-removable. It pushes out easily, being held in by two tiny rubber o-rings.

2. The other flush pin is a tight push fit and should not need to be removed in normal adjustment.

3. The domed pins are actually two halves, inserted from each side of the link. They just need a firm grasp with fine pliers, and a strong pull! You might be able to start them with a fine blade. Once one side is free you can push the second half out.


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## webvan

Thanks for the tips, #3 here and using the broken bracelet of the SS VHP I was able to see how it worked and actually pop out the halves...but only after "removing" the middle golden link and pushing from the inside with a screwdriver, there is a lot of "muck" inside the links and very little grip from the outside, I'll see if I can find some finer pliers. Tried using a box cutter and small screw drive to push out the "dome" a bit but it feel dangerous...


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## webvan

So after spending a good hour on the problem last night with various instruments I finally managed to pop out some "domes" with a small screwdriver resting on the side of the bracelet for more leverage...Naturally I'm right between one link+micro adjustment 3 and two links+micro adjustment 1 so it's a tad "loose" but I'll have to get used to it. Not sure I'll be wearing it much anyway as the round 33.5mm case is really a tad small for my 7" wrist.

Oh since we were talking about the version with the Ti inscription, here are some pictures I found, the bracelet had been modified too, but same size at 33.5/36mm (with the crown). I prefer the "Ti" bezel of ours rather than the plated one of this version.



















So to sum it up, it seems the non PC VHP came in the following "flavors" : 
- VHP Ti with no Ti on the dial, Ti bezel and SS back - 33.5mm
- VHP SS with plated bezel - 33.5mm
- VHP Ti with Ti on the dial, plated bezel and Ti back - 33.5mm
- VHP Oersted with screw down crown and screw in back, 36 mm (this one is now on my list!)


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## chris01

Not so fast, my friend! Mine is (was) a VHP Ti, with "Ti" on the dial, "Titanium" on the back, some bits of gold on the dial, and gold only on the centre parts of the bracelet and the Longines wings on the clasp. Bezel and crown were plain Ti. Sorry no photos at present.


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## webvan

Well I'm just trying to compile a list, not saying it's definitive. So yours is #3 with a Ti (at least non plated) bezel like on my picture ?

The back of the Ti one on eBay with the plated bezel looks like this, Ti Back too, I'll add that above :


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## chris01

The back of mine is different from this one. I'll try to get some pics by the end of the week.


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## angeche

Webvan, that VHP Longines is now in my posession. I will post some piccies....


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## chris01

OK, here's my sadly dead VHP. I hope it shows everything anyone might need to know, Feel free to ask any questions.

The date disc is not original. I found the gold on black version unreadable in most light so had it changed for a later version.

The strange item inside the movement at 3 o'clock is actually bright plated. It sits on top of the battery.

Note the two little black rubber washers at 5:30 and 11:30. These rest against the inside of the back to steady the movement. They are very easily lost.


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## Eeeb

There are diagnostic tests for this movement. I believe they are in the ETA Technical Doc.


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## webvan

@angeche - you got rodinia's ? Let us know when it arrives!

Nice pictures, doesn't seem to be in a bad shape. Our serial numbers aren't very far apart, 21075xxx for mine and 21800xxx for yours so its a bit unlikely yours would be a later model, maybe they had different versions available...Angeche's is 24590xxx so clearly a bit later. I wonder when they stopped making them...will see if I can find old catalogues online.


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## webvan

Just saw a nice 35mm Conquest get sold on the bay...










...so here's an updated list of the non PC VHP conquests :

- VHP Ti with no Ti on the dial, Ti bezel and SS back - 33.5mm
- VHP Ti with Ti on the dial, plated bezel, flat interlinks, Ti back with gold bar - 33.5mm
- VHP Ti with Ti on the dial, Ti bezel and Ti back - 33.5mm
- VHP SS with plated bezel - 33.5mm
- VHP SS with style of the later VHP Perpetual (see above) - 35mm
- VHP Oersted with screw down crown and screw in back, 36 mm (this one is now on my list!)


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## Paulo 8135

I was actually watching that very same watch on ebay...considered bidding but ive decided when i get my vhp it has to be perpetual!

It went for a pretty reasonable price though, compared to some of the longines on the bay...


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## webvan

I have a Flagship perpetual and now I would probably go with a model like that one from a "tweaker's" standpoint because you need three hands to adjust the perpetual with its large battery that prevents access to the digital terminal.


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## Paulo 8135

Hmm cant say i know much about tweaking...do you think one of these would need a tweak given its age?


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## webvan

Most likely yes, when I got my VHP Flagship perpetual it was gaining 60 s/y and the VHP/Ti I just got is at 100 s/y, clearly needs a tweak but it's going to be easy on this one ;-)

You can read about regulating an ETA based watch with a digital terminal here : https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/longines-vhp-accuracy-86346-5.html#post1138522


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## PeterG_SVK

I pulled the trigger on this one from eBay, it's on the way...


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## webvan

Very nice, glad I didn see it ;-) Was it mislabelled or restricted to some countries ?


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## chris01

I have exactly the same model and it's my favourite watch. That was a very good price, I think.


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## PeterG_SVK

webvan said:


> Very nice, glad I didn see it ;-) Was it mislabelled or restricted to some countries ?


That's very good you didn't see it ;-), it was on eBay UK (restricted to UK, I think), 2 bidders only and 3 bids . The same time Seiko SBCM023 was sold for 100 GBP more, 23 bids I think. I don't understand ...


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## webvan

ok, I see it now, UK only...but the guy was apparently ready to ship to Slovakia so he shouldn't have restricted it like that, oh well...good for you and let us know when you get it!


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## PeterG_SVK

I've got it. The watch is a little bit more worn than expected (many hairline scratches on the bracelet and the watch), but I'll try to renew it as soon as I receive necessary tools (Satin fibril mops).


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## chris01

Not exactly the same as mine after all. Mine has the 1/5th second markings, which are of course completely meaningless here. I think I slightly prefer your cleaner dial. Otherwise identical.


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## PeterG_SVK

Similar dial is used also in Longines Conquest automatic, so isn't yours that one?


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## chris01

Here's a picture of mine: https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/6-months-very-high-precision-622025.html#post4539318

The 12-month accuracy update is due in 2 months' time.


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## PeterG_SVK

Your watch is in very good condition. Have you bought it new?


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## chris01

Have a look at the first post in that thread for the rather unusual history of the watch. I received it in very nice condition - I think the previous owner had done some work on the metal (and that's his photo). Since I've had it I have occasionally had a go at the scratches and swirls. Minor brush-ups can be done easily with a glass fibre pen but for more serious effect I have found that an ordinary green Scotchbrite pad does a good job. Wetting the pad and keeping the strokes along the bracelet is best. That gives a fairly matt finish and I have then gently applied a chrome metal polish to bring back a bit of shine. Masking off the crystal is of course essential! With the amount of scratches on your watch I think you can afford to experiment, and I hope you will arrive at a pleasing result.

Let's have another picture (mine this time):


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## Catalin

Seems to be same type of dial as mine (but different color). And mine is still not refinished, but that is a good excuse for me not to 'pamper' it until the next battery change :-d

The part that I love most in mine (other than the accuracy) is the very long seconds-hand (which is also well aligned).


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## chris01

Interesting concentric pattern on your dial - looks a bit like the Exceed. Does that produce unwanted reflections? Mine is just plain gloss black. I wonder why they switched between the plain seconds and 1/5 seconds styles - just to make it look a bit 'high-tech' I guess.


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## PeterG_SVK

chris01 said:


> ...Minor brush-ups can be done easily with a glass fibre pen but for more serious effect I have found that an ordinary green Scotchbrite pad does a good job. Wetting the pad and keeping the strokes along the bracelet is best. That gives a fairly matt finish and I have then gently applied a chrome metal polish to bring back a bit of shine. Masking off the crystal is of course essential! ...


Very nice job! What grit is green Scotchbrite pad? I've ordered very fine (280 grit) Cousins UK - Satinweb Fibril Wheels (for a Matt Finish) for the bracelet. I intend to remove the bracelet from the watch during the operation. I'm very interested, what the result will be...


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## Catalin

chris01 said:


> Interesting concentric pattern on your dial - looks a bit like the Exceed. Does that produce unwanted reflections? Mine is just plain gloss black. I wonder why they switched between the plain seconds and 1/5 seconds styles - just to make it look a bit 'high-tech' I guess.


The reflections are not a problem and the look and color is pretty cool (but the Exceed might have better contrast, since the dial is darker).

IMHO the 1/5 seconds markers might make any misalignment in the seconds-hand more obvious - and for a watch where the hand can not normally point on any of those it would not be of any major use (unlike in a 1/5s chronograph, or maybe a 36000 bph automatic).


----------



## chris01

I'm not that hi-tech! I'm talking about the Scotchbrite pad you get from your local Tesco (it may even be some other brand). It's the rough green stuff for scouring pans. Then I used Autosol chrome polish, just because I had some around. I'm reluctant to go anywhere near a watch with power tools.

Good idea to remove the bracelet, but do be careful when pushing out the pins. They are easily damaged if you get it wrong (how do I know that?). If you have any doubt, I have a short note on the subject that I wrote when I sent my previous VHP to New Zealand. PM me an email address and I'll send you a copy.

How accurate is your Miros quartz? I bought one new last year but only kept it for a month because I found it too big and heavy. I really liked it otherwise, but I got fed up with bumping into everything with the bezel.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

OK, we have Tesco stores in Slovakia too, so I can check there.

I've already pushed out some pins from the bracelet to add spare links, they are one-end-splitted so I had to find that end first by close look to the link hole and pushed to the opposite one. They went out quite easily with the band strap tool. Did you mean that?

I gave 8x -C pulses to Miros and now checking the precision. It's stored at room temperature, I do not wear it regularly. After 1 month I've noticed sligt difference (ca. for 1 - 2 extra pulses), but that may be also DCF clock momentary deviation, so I'm waithing a month longer. 
I'm surprised how well are doing my regulated old non TC Certina watch. Either on hand or on the shelf they are still well within <+1 s/month. Last week I did not wear it at all.


----------



## chris01

Yes, you got it. The other bit is not losing the sleeves that fit inside the central links!


----------



## ChristopherJ

Forgive me for butting into this thread but I registered to try and learn more about the VHP watch I own and listed on eBay yesterday. I took the liberty of quoting this thread in my eBay listing as an authoritative guide to the history of the VHP series. I now wear one of the last VHP Perpetual Flagship models all the time (L4.722.4.12.6).

The one I bought back in 1985 has been sitting in a drawer unused for some years so I have decided to part with it. I am not here to promote my eBay listing but I am keen to try and find out the exact model and why the movement does not seem to fit in with the series shown in the history. The movement is ETA 255.461. There is no "L" number shown on the movement. This could be because I recall that the watch went back to Switzerland at one stage and this might not be the movement originally fitted? I have added some pictures to this post and would welcome any information anyone can provide on this watch. You will see that unlike most I have found on the internet, this is all gold plated and not a mix of steel and gold. Many thanks for any help.













[






GOOGLEVID][/GOOGLEVID]


----------



## Eeeb

One of the older style Conquests, not a Flagship. It looks like the Longines movement identification is gone due to a previous movement swap. 

These Conquests are nice but the casing and bracelet are not up to the standards of the later Conquests (note the brassing and corrosion). As a consequence they are among the lowest priced VHPs on eBay. But the movement is quite capable of great accuracy and has the finer adjustments (0.01 spd increments instead of 0.02 spd increments of some other Thermolines). And it looks like you may have all the links, a major plus.


----------



## webvan

I think our new friend has both a Flagship and this one he is selling. Yes the movement, or at least the electronic module was swapped.

What's this finer adjustment you're referring to? AFAIK all the thermolines can be adjusted in steps of 0.33 spm or 0.011 spd or 4 spy?


----------



## Eeeb

webvan said:


> I think our new friend has both a Flagship and this one he is selling. Yes the movement, or at least the electronic module was swapped.
> 
> What's this finer adjustment you're referring to? AFAIK all the thermolines can be adjusted in steps of 0.33 spm or 0.011 spd or 4 spy?


Some Thermolines have a courser adjustment of 0.66 spm or 0.02 spd....

BTW, the equipment used to regulate these are calibrated in spd. The spm used in the documentation is an artifact of some writer.


----------



## webvan

Well it's a bit more than that since 0.33 spm is what's written on the movement, but I see what you mean about adjustments being made in spy.

Couldn't find a thermoline with a 0.66 adjustment step, which one is it? Google did find me an old post by ppaulusz (still don't understand why/how he could decide to leave this forum, oh well...) about the L.234.2 = ETA 252.411 a Perpetual Calendar with that adjustment step but it's not TC.


----------



## Eeeb

webvan said:


> Well it's a bit more than that since 0.33 spm is what's written on the dial, but I see what you mean about adjustments being made in spy.
> 
> Couldn't find a thermoline with a 0.66 adjustment step, which one is it? Google did find me an old post by ppaulusz (still don't understand why/how he could decide to leave this forum, oh well...) about the L.234.2 = ETA 252.411 a Perpetual Calendar with that adjustment step but it's not TC.


Last time George (ppaulsz) dropped out, a PM found him just too busy in his 'real' life. I just don't understand this 'real' life stuff -- is that like Second Life?? LOL


----------



## chris01

webvan said:


> Well it's a bit more than that since 0.33 spm is what's written on the dial, but I see what you mean about adjustments being made in spy.
> 
> Couldn't find a thermoline with a 0.66 adjustment step, which one is it? Google did find me an old post by ppaulusz (still don't understand why/how he could decide to leave this forum, oh well...) about the L.234.2 = ETA 252.411 a Perpetual Calendar with that adjustment step but it's not TC.


The only 0.66 spm movement in current use is, I believe, the ETA 955.652, which is used in the Sinn UX diver's watch.


----------



## webvan

The one you can't open? That would explain why we don't gave any pics ;-) Odd they would have that different adjustment step.


----------



## chris01

I suspect (without any real knowledge) that this movement has the necessary motor torque (or some other characteristic) required to operate immersed in oil. It's interesting, and very disappointing, that the UX doesn't have a perpetual calendar or independent hour hand.


----------



## ronalddheld

What is this "real life" Eeeb is referencing?


----------



## PeterG_SVK

My new old beauty. 
Better later than never, finally I found necessary time to restore my watch (the pictures of original status are here https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/history-longines-vhp-320107-4.html#post4928505). Enjoy the results in the enclosed pictures...

[Moderator edit: please note the use of weapons in pictures not germane to the use of the watch is not permitted. 2 pis deleted.]
Edit: I apologize for that, I didn't know, I included another picture instead.


----------



## SirPaulGerman

is anyway I can buy the eta movement of the watch ?


----------



## Catalin

SirPaulGerman said:


> is anyway I can buy the eta movement of the watch ?


I believe it could be possible to get an out-of-spec or defective movement replaced with a new one, but obviously only in an original Longines model and probably by Longines themselves (or something similar, they are now part of Swatch I believe so the service might be handled by the group in many countries) - if anybody knows anything else on the subject please let us know!


----------



## chris01

Catalin said:


> I believe it could be possible to get an out-of-spec or defective movement replaced with a new one, but obviously only in an original Longines model and probably by Longines themselves (or something similar, they are now part of Swatch I believe so the service might be handled by the group in many countries) - if anybody knows anything else on the subject please let us know!


Yes, before I acquired my VHP Perp in 2011, the previous owner was offered a new ETA 252.611 movement by Longines in Ireland, as a cheaper alternative to a full service.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/6-months-very-high-precision-622025.html


----------



## Eeeb

SirPaulGerman said:


> is anyway I can buy the eta movement of the watch ?


Swatch Service will do movement swaps. The service agent needs to send in the old movement before they will send the new one. It is out of policy for them to sell the movement alone. But sometimes they do show up on eBay; once a year or less in my experience.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*The date problems*

My first watch (with black dial, pictured few posts above) stops showing the date. The stepper motor makes buzz, but the date doesn't change. The watch is already in Longines authorized service in Slovakia. The second watch which comes off eBay few days ago has strange behaviour when the date is setting, see my post https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/setting-date-longines-conquest-perpetual-vhp-175965-2.html#post5697685. I think I can still return it back, but if the repair is possible (or simply let it be?), I would prefer to keep it. I've thought, that VHP Perpetual watch will last ages, but the date issue looks like general problem (at least in both my watches). Has anybody experienced date reading or date setup problems?
Another question: Longines authorized service told me, that quartz watch should be cleaned and lubricated every 5 - 6 years (like mechanical watch). What do you think about that? Is there any reason to do so?


----------



## Eeeb

*Re: The date problems*



PeterG_SVK said:


> My first watch (with black dial, pictured few posts above) stops showing the date. The stepper motor makes buzz, but the date doesn't change. The watch is already in Longines authorized service in Slovakia. The second watch which comes off eBay few days ago has strange behaviour when the date is setting, see my post https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/setting-date-longines-conquest-perpetual-vhp-175965-2.html#post5697685. I think I can still return it back, but if the repair is possible (or simply let it be?), I would prefer to keep it. I've thought, that VHP Perpetual watch will last ages, but the date issue looks like general problem (at least in both my watches). Has anybody experienced date reading or date setup problems?
> Another question: Longines authorized service told me, that quartz watch should be cleaned and lubricated every 5 - 6 years (like mechanical watch). What do you think about that? Is there any reason to do so?


I have several and have not seen your problem.

I am sure the service folks want you to regularly give them your quartz watches for disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication. However quartz watches do not have gear trains that are constantly under load, unlike mechanicals. So they can run for a very long time with only battery swaps and gasket replacement. I don't 'service' mine. Some are over 40 years old


----------



## chris01

*Re: The date problems*



Eeeb said:


> I have several and have not seen your problem.
> 
> I am sure the service folks want you to regularly give them your quartz watches for disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication. However quartz watches do not have gear trains that are constantly under load, unlike mechanicals. So they can run for a very long time with only battery swaps and gasket replacement. I don't 'service' mine. Some are over 40 years old


Unlike the multi-motor watches (e.g. Citizen E510), there must be at least some gearing in the Longines. However, with a 10-year battery (in the VHP Perp) I don't think many owners would consider a 5-year service interval to make any sense.

When my 11-year old watch (with an 18-month old movement) needs a battery or digital adjustment I'll certainly do it myself. Longines won't see it again until/unless it breaks or needs a full restoration.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: The date problems*

Could you please have a look at my post https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/setting-date-longines-conquest-perpetual-vhp-175965-2.html#post5697685, whether the date setting procedure and watch response is correct (especially that the crown should be pressed back to pos. 1(normal) before turning the hour hand clockwise in crown position 2 to move the date forward)?


----------



## Eeeb

*Re: The date problems*



PeterG_SVK said:


> Could you please have a look at my post https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/setting-date-longines-conquest-perpetual-vhp-175965-2.html#post5697685, whether the date setting procedure and watch response is correct (especially that the crown should be pressed back to pos. 1(normal) before turning the hour hand clockwise in crown position 2 to move the date forward)?


You will get as many answers posting this once. This isn't Public where thousands flush through every day.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Latest purchase*

My latest purchase from the eBay.uk, 10 years old VHP Perpetual with white dial. I'm going to renew it "to Longines high quality standards" soon ;-).


----------



## chris01

*Re: Latest purchase*

Nice one, Peter. Identical to mine, except I have the black dial. We both have the pointless 1/5th second markers - I suppose they make the dial look a bit more high-tech.

From your previous efforts, I guess this one will soon be looking better than new!


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Latest purchase*

I think the Longines stopped doing 1/5th second markers in the later production, my younger 7 years old VHP watch has only 1s markers.


----------



## Eeeb

*Re: Latest purchase*



PeterG_SVK said:


> I think the Longines stopped doing 1/5th second markers in the later production, my younger 7 years old VHP watch has only 1s markers.


Every year they changed their dials it seems. Someone on eBay has been selling them and they show a nice variety.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Latest purchase*



chris01 said:


> ... From your previous efforts, I guess this one will soon be looking better than new!


Fresh pictures follow... ;-)


----------



## shtora

*Re: Latest purchase*

Congratulations! Fantastic watch!
I own exactly the same model. The most versatile watch I've owned so far. All the incredibly functional features aside (time zone, PC, accuracy, WR, 10-year battery), on one hand it looks sporty and the finish is very scratch resistent; on the other hand, the face makes it a very dressy piece.
I just wish it had a bit better reading contrast, but this would ruin the dressines I guess.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Latest purchase*



shtora said:


> Congratulations! Fantastic watch! ... I just wish it had a bit better reading contrast, but this would run the dressines I guess.


Thanks. I've got the same watch with black dial (now they are twins), so I can choose the dial contrast .


----------



## chris01

*Re: Latest purchase*

Super job, Peter, well done!


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Latest purchase*

Thanks, Chris!


----------



## webvan

*Re: Latest purchase*

Was doing my 6 month check on my TC watches (yes a bit late for DST...) and I noticed that my Longines VHP Flagship perpetual was starting to lose the plot : 
- Previous 6 months: - 7 spy
- Latest 6 months : + 36 spy

Hopefully it's just the battery dropping in voltage...I think my Aerospace did that before the battery gave up the ghost, before any EOL indication came up of course.


----------



## Hans Moleman

*Re: Latest purchase*

Here's hoping its the battery!

I did notice a lot of double stepper pulses in mine. Where the stepper fails to move far enough after receiving the first pulse. Nothing much I can do about that, but I wonder how it affects the battery life.


----------



## webvan

*Re: Latest purchase*

I'll keep an eye on it each week now. I mean they do seem to lose the plot at some point since mine was at +60spy when I got it. Not looking forward to trying to calibrate again in any case!


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Latest purchase*

Calibration is the most funny operation with the watch . 
Off Longines topic: I've noticed 3s gain in 3 month in ML Miros Diver on the wrist wearing it 24/7 (the gain was not stable, it varied in the range 0.6 - 1.2s from month to month), while 0s lost/gain in 1 month off the wrist (new battery was installed ca. 3 months before I started the measurements). After 1st calibration, black dial Conquest VHP gains steadily +0.4s each month off the wrist, I have no relevant data on the wrist because it's still in Longines service.


----------



## Hans Moleman

*Re: Latest purchase*



PeterG_SVK said:


> Calibration is the most funny operation with the watch .
> Off Longines topic: I've noticed 3s gain in 3 month in ML Miros Diver on the wrist wearing it 24/7 (the gain was not stable, it varied in the range 0.6 - 1.2s from month to month), while 0s lost/gain in 1 month off the wrist (new battery was installed ca. 3 months before I started the measurements). After 1st calibration, black dial Conquest VHP gains steadily +0.4s each month off the wrist, I have no relevant data on the wrist because it's still in Longines service.


Good work!

Unfortunately you can't calibrate to 0 seconds per year regardless of use. 
You've got a 12 seconds per year difference between wearing and not wearing.

Sounds fair enough.

Measured over an entire year the difference will be less. Warmer months compensating for colder ones.

I am almost looking forward to more calibration. I have better equipment and look forward to using 'the button method'. Haven't seen any need for it right now.

Looks like most VHP's were very badly calibrated or aged more than expected in the first few years.


----------



## my_watch

*Re: Latest purchase*



webvan said:


> Was doing my 6 month check on my TC watches (yes a bit late for DST...) and I noticed that my Longines VHP Flagship perpetual was starting to lose the plot :
> - Previous 6 months: - 7 spy
> - Latest 6 months : + 36 spy
> 
> Hopefully it's just the battery dropping in voltage...I think my Aerospace did that before the battery gave up the ghost, before any EOL indication came up of course.


My question maybe is silly. Is it common also with other HAQ watches (Citizen Chronomaster, Grand Seiko) to lose the plot when the battery drops in voltage (before any EOL indication)?

Marco


----------



## Hans Moleman

*Re: Latest purchase*



my_watch said:


> My question maybe is silly. Is it common also with other HAQ watches (Citizen Chronomaster, Grand Seiko) to lose the plot when the battery drops in voltage (before any EOL indication)?
> 
> Marco


Not a silly question at all.
Such behavior has been observed before.

I've personally only seen it on my wall clock. That one ate batteries so it was much more obvious there.


----------



## Eeeb

*Re: Latest purchase*



my_watch said:


> My question maybe is silly. Is it common also with other HAQ watches (Citizen Chronomaster, Grand Seiko) to lose the plot when the battery drops in voltage (before any EOL indication)?
> 
> Marco


It is certainly not uncommon...


----------



## webvan

*Re: Latest purchase*

I suppose it's a compromise between activating the EOL and losing the plot only moderately, 40 spy is certainly acceptable for a few days/weeks.


----------



## T5aus

*Longines VHP help needed*

Hi guys, not sure if this is the right spot since this post has been quiet for a while but worth a shot
This one has a problem with the hour hand, it seems to get out of sinc so I am assuming it is something in the gearing? broken tooth perhaps. I sent it into the Longines service dept in Melbourne and they said it would be a minimum $700 fix and the watch has to be sent to switzerland !! I was shocked to think a local service centre could not deal with it in shop, I mean, it's only a quartz movement, surly they are an easy fix
I am wondering if anyone has had a similar problem with the hour hand and what did they get done to fix it or perhaps it's possible to just replace the movement
It's a great watch which my wife wears daily but we really dont want to spend that kind of money to fix it.
Thanks anyone


----------



## Eeeb

*Re: Longines VHP help needed*

Remove the movement from the case. Reset the hands to the proper relative position by removing which ever is on top and moving and replacing it. Place the movement back in the case.

If you can't do it, any watchmaker can. Find a watchmaker, not a jeweler.

If the movement really does need to be replaced, you need to use the Longines service network as they are the only folks who can source that movement as a replacement part.

But I bet just moving one of the hands will solve the problem.


----------



## webvan

*Re: Longines VHP help needed*

Just by coincidence I recently got my grubby hands on the rare OE 1000 with 
- its larger 36mm case vs 33mm on the "normal" VHP)
- screw down titanium back (stadard VHP has an SS back, at least mine does).
- larger screw down crown

Sorry, the dial is a bit fuzzy : 









The OE 1000 doesn't feel like a big watch but it makes the standard VHP looks tinier!









Preliminary testing (video method over one day shows it to be running at a decent +27 s/y when worn and will be easily adjustable too).


----------



## T5aus

*Re: Longines VHP help needed*



Eeeb said:


> Remove the movement from the case. Reset the hands to the proper relative position by removing which ever is on top and moving and replacing it. Place the movement back in the case.
> 
> If you can't do it, any watchmaker can. Find a watchmaker, not a jeweler.
> 
> If the movement really does need to be replaced, you need to use the Longines service network as they are the only folks who can source that movement as a replacement part.
> 
> But I bet just moving one of the hands will solve the problem.


thanks Eeeb, I did leave it with my watchmaker but he had no luck, and although it was working when I gave it to him, it now is not, so perhaps he removed the new battery and forgot to tell me or maybe he just ain't that good with quartz, brilliant with mechanical stuff though.
I might open it up to try your suggestion, can't make it any worse
thanks
Phil


----------



## T5aus

*Re: Longines VHP help needed*

Hi again, just removed the movement then removed hands and dial (and surprised myself, not half as hard as I thought it would be) With it still open I put the hands on and sat the movement on a new battery and she seemed to be working as she should but I was unable to be sure the hour hand was not still playing up not having the dial on to gauge it against. So I then decided to check the gears and found that there was some damage on the hour wheel teeth, so I think I have found the problem of the hour hand dropping out of sinc occasionally, see photo's. As can be seen, some of the teeth are a bit off line and where the brighter shiny metal is there has been ware on them so they are a bit worn in this area. These are tiny teeth and the macro on my cheaper camera does not show it too clearly but I think you can see that some of the teeth are off true.
My next dilemma is how do I fix it, there's no way I am sending it to Longines Switzerland for a $700 + fix when I think all is needed is the replacement wheel, what you reckon people, are there any generic quartz movements that have the same size wheels as this? Thanks again


----------



## webvan

Sorry you're having these problems but you're OT in this thread about the history of the VHP. Start a new one with a title that describes your problem "Where to have Longines VHP fixed in XYZ ?" for example, which will give you the best chances of a solution.


----------



## T5aus

webvan said:


> Sorry you're having these problems but you're OT in this thread about the history of the VHP. Start a new one with a title that describes your problem "Where to have Longines VHP fixed in XYZ ?" for example, which will give you the best chances of a solution.


Yep, thanks webvan, I did already realise my mistake and have re posted this in a separate posting
cheers
Phil


----------



## webvan

Just saw that, here is the link : https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/help-needed-my-longines-vhp-857558.html ;-)

I'll repost pics/info about my OE 1000 then :

Just my grubby hands on the rare OE 1000 VHP with 
- its larger 36mm case vs 33mm on the "normal" VHP)
- screw down titanium back (stadard VHP has an SS back, at least mine does).
- larger screw down crown

Sorry, the dial is a bit fuzzy : 









The OE 1000 doesn't feel like a big watch but it makes the standard VHP looks tinier!









Preliminary testing (video method over one day shows it to be running at a decent +27 s/y when worn and will be easily adjustable too).


----------



## StuartDZA

I have a Longines Ti VHP purchased in 1997. Pictures attached. Still going strong and I wear it 24 x 365, it hardly ever comes off. A treasure of a watch.





















Thought this would be interesting as it seems to have a bracelet/face/back/calendar colour combination different to the others in this post.


----------



## webvan

Very nice! Yes that's a different bracelet, second generation I suppose, that might have been covered in the thread, can't look it up right now on my iPhone.


----------



## webvan

Wasn't sure where to post this, but who here had heard of the Longines AHP ?! Looks like the ETA AutoQuartz movement to me?


----------



## Eeeb

webvan said:


> Wasn't sure where to post this, but who here had heard of the Longines AHP ?! Looks like the ETA AutoQuartz movement to me?


It is indeed an Autoquartz! (I have one in my collection ) It houses an ETA 205.911 (the successor to the capacitor-based ETA 205.711).

Longines was the only maker to emphasize the ability of the Autoquartz to attain higher accuracy than normal quartz. With the right Witschi you can adjust the timing in the field - the only modern quartz retaining this ability aside from a few high end Seikos and, of course, the entire Thermoline line from ETA. And the inhibition period is 120 seconds instead of 60 seconds allowing finer than normal adjustments. I assume Longines emphasized the accuracy due to their existing VHP line.

As an Autoquartz collector, I only see them come up about once a year on eBay. They are rare. (I had to get mine from a seller in Amman.)

The nice thing is you can still get extra links as this is a normal Longines Conquest bracelet. Longines still stocks links 

Aside, there is actually one other 'modern' ETA movement that allows self adjustment of timing - the Perpetual Calendar movements Longines and Omega used. It uses the same mechanism used by Thermolines (thus can be owner adjusted). It was the precursor of the VHP Perpetual Calendar. But it has no thermocompensation. I do not know what the inhibition period is as I have none and haven't needed to figure that out.

Since Autoquartz is centered on attaining increased accuracy, Bruce thought it appropriate for the forum. (Bruce preceded Ronald and me as the HEQ/HAQ moderator for those not familiar with the forum history.) If you read his 'what is appropriate' sticky you will see early quartz movements were also included.

Tissot still sells Autoquartz-based movements. ETA no longer sells them as the manufacturing takes ETA 2824 tooling and, prior to the Wall Street collapse, they couldn't make enough mechanical movements to satisfy demand. They made more money off 2824s so stopped making Autoquartz. I assume Tissot is using new old stock movements.

With 17 jewels (a vestige of the ETA 2824 roots) Autoquartz movements are among the highest jewelled quartz movements made. The chronograph version (very expensive - I have only one) is the highest jeweled quartz movement ever made.

Someday I'll post up the entire collection.


----------



## webvan

That would be great yes! I thought of getting that Hermes AQ Chrono (the only one, right?) for a while but it never comes cheap...I don't think Omega ever used that non TC perpetual calendar as I've never seen it in their list of calibers, but I've seen the Longines version on eBay a few times, with 0.66 spm steps, right? Too bad there is no manual trimmer in the Autoquartz so I think that makes the X33's 1666 the last known ETA to have a manual trimmer (NASA requirement I'm guessing).


----------



## Eeeb

webvan said:


> That would be great yes! I thought of getting that Hermes AQ Chrono (the only one, right?) for a while but it never comes cheap...I don't think Omega ever used that non TC perpetual calendar as I've never seen it in their list of calibers, but I've seen the Longines version on eBay a few times, with 0.66 spm steps, right? Too bad there is no manual trimmer in the Autoquartz so I think that makes the X33's 1666 the last known ETA to have a manual trimmer (NASA requirement I'm guessing).


I've seen Omeeeeeeegas with the non-TC perpetual calendar.

Yes, the lack of a trimmer is a pain. All quartz should have them


----------



## webvan

hum...I'll take you up on that Omega with a non-TC PC ;-)


----------



## Eeeb

Two on eBay currently, I think... this and this

Or I might be confused...


----------



## webvan

PC indeed but that to me is the TC caliber 1680 in there? It was used both in these Constellations and then in the Double Eagle (35mm and 38mm).


----------



## Squidward

I have enjoyed reading this thread but have a question. Why on Earth did Longines (or perhaps ETA) stop making watches with such a wonderfully functional movement? If they were still in production I would certainly be interested in buying one, and it does seem crazy that features such as a perpetual calendar are not a standard feature of all modern quartz movements with a date.

I know that for many watches are largely jewellery, or because they help to indulge a fetish for small mechanical devices, but surely functionality must still be of significance to many buyers? Surely, many buyers would love to be able to buy a quartz watch with good accuracy, a perpetual calendar, an independently adjustable hour hand and so forth without having to spend big money on something like a Citizen CTQ57-0934?


----------



## chris01

Squidward said:


> I have enjoyed reading this thread but have a question. Why on Earth did Longines (or perhaps ETA) stop making watches with such a wonderfully functional movement? If they were still in production I would certainly be interested in buying one, and it does seem crazy that features such as a perpetual calendar are not a standard feature of all modern quartz movements with a date.
> 
> I know that for many watches are largely jewellery, or because they help to indulge a fetish for small mechanical devices, but surely functionality must still be of significance to many buyers? Surely, many buyers would love to be able to buy a quartz watch with good accuracy, a perpetual calendar, an independently adjustable hour hand and so forth without having to spend big money on something like a Citizen CTQ57-0934?


Absolutely agree. Perp Cal should be pretty easy for any reasonably expensive quartz, although it's a complication too far for most mechanicals. I cannot understand why every watch can't have an independent hour hand. Having to reset for DST and every time you cross a time zone is just plain primitive.

Overall, I think the Longines VHP PC (and the Constellation PC) has the very best TC movement, given its functionality and adjustability.


----------



## shtora

I don't have the answer, unfortunately, I can't understand the lack of interest in HEQ watches with PC, long-life batteries and time-zone feature, either and I think many in this forum feel the same way. However, it seems that the majority of watch enthusiasts and watch buyers do not care so much. This is why such watches are history.


----------



## Squidward

Good point shtora. Perhaps the demand simply isn't there.

Perhaps cost is also important. How expensive were the VHP watches, in comparison with mechanicals and 'base' quartz models? 

Perhaps a VHP movement is actually quite expensive to make and / or hard to make in large numbers, and the move to radio-controlled quartz models by the likes of Seiko and Citizen is down to radio-synchronised movements being much cheaper to produce, so increasing margins for the manufacturers.

I also have a feeling that the perceived 'added value' of a mechanical watch, along with the current surge in demand, encourages manufacturers, especially the Swiss, to focus on these. After all, by simply using a basic ETA movement costing them perhaps a couple of hundred Swiss Francs, if that, they can sell the completed watch for a thousand Swiss francs more than an equivalent quartz model.

It is an even bigger mystery to me as to why Seiko no longer produce the 8F56. After all, they were the original masters of the quartz movement and by now should be producing some stunning quartz designs with all the 'bells and whistles' you could ever need.

All in all I wish I had been in the watch buying market a few years ago!


----------



## chris01

When Longines introduced the VHP in the mid-80s, the big USPs were the brand name (L was highly respected and well-known in many countries), the VHP (5 or 10 SPY depending on what you read), 5-year battery life, and the solid titanium case and bracelet (was it the first watch to use Ti ?) with sapphire crystal. As with most mid- to high-end watches, the cost of manufacture probably had little bearing on the selling price, although a lot of these features were brand new or still quite rare at the time and therefore rather expensive to use and easy to ask a high price for. My VHP cost about 800 GBP in 1986: a lot but still far less than a good mechanical.


----------



## webvan

That was a lot of money indeed!

Going back to the previous point about making more money with mechanicals, that was never so true I think than with the Omega Double Eagle that existed both as a mechanical (co-axial) I believe and the Perpetual TC Quartz that I have. I'm sure sales people found it a very hard sell to get casual buyers to spend $1000+ more on a mechanical that looked exactly the same...so Omega canned the Perpetual. Their only remaining quartz, the Aqua Terra Teak has just been severely maimed (no more applied indexes, no more independent hour) to "force" the sell of the mechanical version. Previously they looked exactly the same.

Pretty shameful if you ask me, especially coming from a brand like Omega that has this extraordinary HEQ heritage...


----------



## dicioccio

The VHP seems to be highly researched but the Citizen A660 / A010 has all the features you listed: PC, TC and an independent hour hand.

All these characteristics are also easy to find in many RC watches by Citizen and Casio. Citizen has many H128 / H144 / H145 based very good watches, Casio has the OCW-S100. Many of them have also multiple timezones and are solar charged.

So I respect very much the VHP but I think there is a good number of good watches nowadays, many of them with a very affordable price.

Unfortunately almost all the Swiss watchmakers decided to focus on the mechanicals market since it is far more profitable.


----------



## webvan

Unfortunately the Citizen movements (you forgot the discontinued E510) cannot be regulated by the user, so if they're off when you get them second hand or start drifting, they'll have to take an expensive trip back home...assuming Citizen will accept to tweak them.

As for RC...well it's just not the same ;-)


----------



## chris01

The down side to VHP adjustability is the agony of deciding whether you want -1 SPY or +3 SPY. I hate a watch that runs slow.  

The only way I can get my Citizen E510 down to +15 is to wear it every day.


----------



## Eeeb

chris01 said:


> The down side to VHP adjustability is the agony of deciding whether you want -1 SPY or +3 SPY. I hate a watch that runs slow.
> 
> The only way I can get my Citizen E510 down to +15 is to wear it every day.


TC is not perfect. Once you set a rate in the 'lab' the real world intervenes and the real world variations will likely be wider than the difference between to regulation steps.

My E510 is now about 6 seconds off... but I have not set it for at least 4 years. I can not realistically complain :-d


----------



## ronalddheld

Practically the Ezchronos can achieve a few seconds/year unworn. with uneven wearing patterns it might8 be worse.


----------



## Squidward

webvan said:


> Their only remaining quartz, the Aqua Terra Teak has just been severely maimed (no more applied indexes, no more independent hour) to "force" the sell of the mechanical version. Previously they looked exactly the same.


Yes, I did look at this model and was rather shocked how 'ordinary' looking they had made the quartz version. It is probably all rather academic now, as they seem to have dropped the quartz version altogether, with Omega's site showing it as being 'no longer available'.


----------



## Sabresoft

I don't believe that a TC movement is that expensive to make, probably no more than an RC calibre. Each has a module or component that corrects the internal clock. RC by picking up radio signals, and TC by adjusting for temperature effects. 

In my mind there is little excuse for higher priced quartz watches not to have a TC calibre, except I guess the Swiss watch industry feeling that high accuracy quartz watches could rob sales from their profitable mechanical watches. Interesting that Breitling has the right idea. All their watches, mechanical and quartz are COSC certified. While they only have a limited number that are quartz compared to their mechanical selection, they do have 9 models including the Aerospace, Chronospace, Emergency, Colt (3), and some models in the Galactic (2) and Avenger series.


----------



## Sabresoft

Eeeb said:


> Tissot still sells Autoquartz-based movements. ETA no longer sells them as the manufacturing takes ETA 2824 tooling and, prior to the Wall Street collapse, they couldn't make enough mechanical movements to satisfy demand. They made more money off 2824s so stopped making Autoquartz. I assume Tissot is using new old stock movements.


I guess they may have used up any supply because a visit to the Tissot site and searching on autoquartz yielded nothing.


----------



## tony99508

sorry to bring this up, just want to share this with HEQ guys, i wrote to longines for more info on my vhp 1000 oe, they send me this booklet and told me that the watch is a limited edition of 2000 pieces made only in 1988 :-! here are the pics....


----------



## Eeeb

These models on rare occasion swim by in the 'Bay... about once a year!

Nice write up and effort! Thanks!!


----------



## ronalddheld

Which of the VHP models are actively worth persuing?


----------



## Eeeb

ronalddheld said:


> Which of the VHP models are actively worth persuing?


All of them! 

I think the Perpetual Calendar models are grossly undervalued but they still go for the most money. Indeed, by that, most VHPs are undervalued. Thermolines are the best HEQs made IMHO. And VHPs are often available for 1/10th the price of new HEQs. Longines service is unparalleled in the HEQ market. I can still get links for 20 year old Conquests.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

Eeeb said:


> ... Longines service is unparalleled in the HEQ market. I can still get links for 20 year old Conquests.


... my (Longines authorised) watchmaker got spare parts for the movement (!) when repaired my VHP Conquest (date wheel issue). He didn't swap the movement, but repaired it ...


----------



## ronalddheld

Eeeb said:


> All of them!
> 
> I think the Perpetual Calendar models are grossly undervalued but they still go for the most money. Indeed, by that, most VHPs are undervalued. Thermolines are the best HEQs made IMHO. And VHPs are often available for 1/10th the price of new HEQs. Longines service is unparalleled in the HEQ market. I can still get links for 20 year old Conquests.


Perhaps if spare dollars appear I will try for one on a sales corner or the 'bay.


----------



## webvan

Thank you very much for sharing these full resolution scans, I quite like my OE1000 VHP and will be wearing it tomorrow ;-) I'd put its bracelet on the Ti 1/100 NOS Chrono of a similar design that came on a tired leather strap.

It's interesting to see the 1min/5 year claim, it conveys a sense of "longevity" that the 10spy doesn't. Mine is running a bit fast at +50spy, I'm going to regulate it right now actually now that I've got some good data on it.


----------



## Philip

*Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*

Despite having a number of Longines Conquests (plain old quartz, multifunction, chronograph, perpetual calendar, day/date, AHP), I have finally just bought my first VHP on eBay.

Having put the bracelet in an ultrasonic cleaner for some time (it was filthy!) and replaced the battery (the back was extremely hard to get off - I ended up having to buy a new back removing tool), it's now ticking away nicely.

However, the movement is marked *L156.2*, which is not one of the movements listed in the opening article of this thread. Was this a VHP movement, or is it possible that the movement was swapped for a non-VHP at some time in the watch's life? I have the original paperwork and receipt from when the watch was first sold (11 July 1992) but no service history.


----------



## chris01

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*



Philip said:


> Despite having a number of Longines Conquests (plain old quartz, multifunction, chronograph, perpetual calendar, day/date, AHP), I have finally just bought my first VHP on eBay.
> 
> Having put the bracelet in an ultrasonic cleaner for some time (it was filthy!) and replaced the battery (the back was extremely hard to get off - I ended up having to buy a new back removing tool), it's now ticking away nicely.
> 
> However, the movement is marked *L156.2*, which is not one of the movements listed in the opening article of this thread. Was this a VHP movement, or is it possible that the movement was swapped for a non-VHP at some time in the watch's life? I have the original paperwork and receipt from when the watch was first sold (11 July 1992) but no service history.


At the risk of stating the obvious, we need some pictures! The dial may give a clue, but the back and the movement should be more helpful. If you examine the movement very carefully, is there an ETA number anywhere. Is the watch titanium or steel? Does it have a small button cell or a large lithium? Did the paperwork/receipt specify a model name? What exactly makes you believe it is, or was, a VHP?


----------



## Philip

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*

Some excellent questions, and hopefully the following photographs answer them:


----------



## dwjquest

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*



chris01 said:


> At the risk of stating the obvious, we need some pictures! The dial may give a clue, but the back and the movement should be more helpful. If you examine the movement very carefully, is there an ETA number anywhere. Is the watch titanium or steel? Does it have a small button cell or a large lithium? Did the paperwork/receipt specify a model name? What exactly makes you believe it is, or was, a VHP?


Pictures are found on this website:

LONGINES L156.2 CONQUEST


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*

For me the movement on the picture looks like no VHP, but I think there are more skilled persons here to judge...


----------



## shtora

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*



Philip said:


> Despite having a number of Longines Conquests (plain old quartz, multifunction, chronograph, perpetual calendar, day/date, AHP), I have finally just bought my first VHP on eBay.
> 
> Having put the bracelet in an ultrasonic cleaner for some time (it was filthy!) and replaced the battery (the back was extremely hard to get off - I ended up having to buy a new back removing tool), it's now ticking away nicely.
> 
> However, the movement is marked *L156.2*, which is not one of the movements listed in the opening article of this thread. Was this a VHP movement, or is it possible that the movement was swapped for a non-VHP at some time in the watch's life? I have the original paperwork and receipt from when the watch was first sold (11 July 1992) but no service history.


Hi!

Take a look here: http://www.longines.com/documents/technical-information/quartz-movements-en.pdf

It seems that L156 is an ETA flatline 255.412. Not thermoconpensated, though.


----------



## webvan

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*

Unfortunately this does not look like a TC circuit, most likely an electronic module that went bad and got changed. The Omega 1441's (TC) circuit can be swapped for the 1438's (non TC) for instance. What's odd is that there is an analog trimmer and ETA stopped using them a long time ago (well the 1666/X-33 still has one), but at least it means it can be adjusted.


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*



shtora said:


> Hi!
> 
> Take a look here: http://www.longines.com/documents/technical-information/quartz-movements-en.pdf
> 
> It seems that L156 is an ETA flatline 255.412. Not thermoconpensated, though.


Interestingly, in the Longines documentation I have on hand L156 is assigned to ETA 255.411.


----------



## chris01

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*



dwjquest said:


> Pictures are found on this website:
> 
> LONGINES L156.2 CONQUEST


I had found the same pictures. However, now we see Philip's watch, his has a trimmer while the Japanese (?) one doesn't. This does look like a substituted non-VHP movement, unfortunately. If it was described as VHP on eBay then I think there are grounds for rejection as 'not as advertised'.

#####
I see that your French seller made no comments about the movement, or the non-originality of any part of the watch. If you can establish that L156.2 is not TC and has never been used in a VHP watch, both of which I believe to be true, then your watch is not as described.


----------



## serenata

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*

Hello,

I have the possibility to buy a Longines Quartz, screw crown, screw back case and 36 mm of grey old dial. On dial are te marks Ti and VHP. Armis in bicolor titanium and case also in titanium.

It is a NOS piece. It has the tags. I dont know the year of manufacture.

It is stored at a jewellery. This jewellery by the reason of the crisis it must close. Jeweller told to me that the price is a real great price. This Longines have the original box, 2 years of official warranty, invoice,... Price is $700. Is it really a good price? I need some advice about.

Regards


----------



## chris01

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*



serenata said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have the possibility to buy a Longines Quartz, screw crown, screw back case and 36 mm of grey old dial. On dial are te marks Ti and VHP. Armis in bicolor titanium and case also in titanium.
> 
> It is a NOS piece. It has the tags. I dont know the year of manufacture.
> 
> It is stored at a jewellery. This jewellery by the reason of the crisis it must close. Jeweller told to me that the price is a real great price. This Longines have the original box, 2 years of official warranty, invoice,... Price is $700. Is it really a good price? I need some advice about.
> 
> Regards


See if you can get the jeweller to let you take some photos - dial, back, and if possible movement and inside of the back. Also, the inside of the bracelet, where the clasp rubs against it, will show signs of even the smallest amount of previous use. Any papers with the watch? If it's exactly as described then it's a good buy, at the right price, although who knows the right price?


----------



## serenata

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*



chris01 said:


> See if you can get the jeweller to let you take some photos - dial, back, and if possible movement and inside of the back. Also, the inside of the bracelet, where the clasp rubs against it, will show signs of even the smallest amount of previous use. Any papers with the watch? If it's exactly as described then it's a good buy, at the right price, although who knows the right price?


Seller told me that the original price (about 10-15 years ago) was $1400. He told me that by the crisis he closes the jewellery and this watch is now at half price. I think that a quartz for $700 is very, very expensive. And is incredible for me that the original price 10-15 years ago were $1400.
I bougth to him another pieces and I think that is honest. He told me that is a good price. Watch has all papers, official warranty, original box and never used and never touch for anybody. The watch was in a store of jewellery for a long time. I searched for internet the price of this model but I dont search anything about. Is it possible to know the years of manufacture of this model?:

_ Longines Quartz, screw crown, screw back case and 36 mm of grey old dial. On dial are te marks Ti and VHP. Armis in bicolor titanium and case also in titanium.
_
Today at 19 hours I will go to jewwellery and I will see the Longines.

Regards


----------



## PeterG_SVK

*Re: Is the L156.2 a VHP movement?*

Have a look at the 1st and 3rd page of this thread for the pictures of old VHP Perpetual Longines, so you can compare with the watch you'll see at the jeweller... If they are one of them, I think 700 USD is quite a fair price for NOS, although on the upper end (old ones are sold ca. for the half or even less on eBay, depending on watch condition, I think).


----------



## kimjmoon

PeterG_SVK said:


> Very nice job! What grit is green Scotchbrite pad? I've ordered very fine (280 grit) Cousins UK - Satinweb Fibril Wheels (for a Matt Finish) for the bracelet. I intend to remove the bracelet from the watch during the operation. I'm very interested, what the result will be...


Just a side note. After using the scotchbrite pad, take some mothers mag and aluminum wheel polish and it will create a very nice swirl free shine without looking like it was buffed on a polishing wheel. I do this with my Omega PO and it always looks factory fresh!


----------



## PeterG_SVK

Finally I used neither Scotchbrite nor fibril wheel, but SIA Flat Pad (foam) 800 grit with the best results, no other finish was necessary. The result is here https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/history-longines-vhp-320107-10.html#post5734922. I used SIA pads again on few other watches for perfect finish, I've found SIA pads better that any Scotchbrites I tested before.


----------



## kimjmoon

PeterG_SVK said:


> Finally I used neither Scotchbrite nor fibril wheel, but SIA Flat Pad (foam) 800 grit with the best results, no other finish was necessary. The result is here https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/history-longines-vhp-320107-10.html#post5734922. I used SIA pads again on few other watches for perfect finish, I've found SIA pads better that any Scotchbrites I tested before.


That looks fantastic! Now if you used a small amount of the Mothers polish I mentioned above it would add a little luster and hide the miniature scratches. This is a after using a green scotchbrite and mothers mag and alum polish. All available at your local grocery store and flawless results! Give it a try, you'll love the outcome!


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## PeterG_SVK

I removed all scratches carefully by 600 grit pads and wanted to remain original look of the watch, so used 800 grit for the finish. I also tested 1000 grit pads, but the finish was too shiny (not like the original) so I went back to 800 grit. Polishing paste is necessary only if you use too coarse (low grit, like ca. 240 - 400) tool for sanding. You can believe me, that it's better to use proper grit than coarse one + polishing (I've tested both).


----------



## RCWatches

Hi all! Have a question here that I'm wondering if any of you experts can answer for me - I have a Longines Conquest with the day and date feature broken. The watch repair company that I brought the watch to told me it would be $190 parts and labor to fix if they had to hunt down the parts, or cheaper if I find the parts.. The issue with the watch is that a new associate of mine played with the day setting while the watch battery was dead, and as soon as a new battery was put in I was told that the "day" function is not working. They told me I'd need a new day/date wheel I believe. I'm assuming it might be better to just replace the whole movement, but am unsure which (ETA?) movement belongs in this exact watch. Any ideas? Thanks in advance for any help!!


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## Eeeb

The ETA movement number is on the baseplate near the edge.

I would worry about any watchmaker who expected their customer to be the parts supplier for fairly modern movements such as this.


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## Philip

I believe that the Longines Conquest day/date (which is not, of course, a VHP) uses an *L163.2* movement (well, that's what mine uses anyway). I have read suggestions that it is based on the *ETA 255.122* movement.


----------



## ronalddheld

I would send it in to an AD and have them repair it to your satisfaction.


----------



## chris01

Are you certain that you have tried setting the day/date correctly, or is it obviously broken? If you don't have the full instructions then get the ETA movement number, which is almost certainly somewhere inside, and search for the technical documents for that movement on ETA's website (ask if you don't know how). If you're very lucky it's just a case of doing it right!


----------



## webvan

So did you guys see that unique (?) 18k Longines VHP on eBay recently that apparently belonged to Lech Walesa ?



> The watch was owned by Polish President Lech Walesa, Nobel Peace Prize NOBEL. It is unique on a global scale made entirely of 18K gold (750) defect 115g amazing treat for connoisseurs, experts on the subject. There is no minimum price, the auction may end prematurely if anyone present an attractive offer. To watch enclose a book signed by the owner of the watch along with a photo, which is Lech Walesa with that book.


----------



## echoack

All stainless silver dial Conquest VHP with L174.4 movement on the bay (link below) if anyone is interested. Not sure if that is a good price or not. 6.8" wrist is the max size for the band for this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Longines-Conquest-Quartz-Wristwatch-/301144969328

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


----------



## chris01

echoack said:


> All stainless silver dial Conquest VHP with L174.4 movement on the bay (link below) if anyone is interested. Not sure if that is a good price or not. 6.8" wrist is the max size for the band for this one.
> 
> Men&apos;s Longines Conquest Quartz Wristwatch | eBay
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


Doesn't look great. The hands seem to have some pitting and the brownish tinge around parts of the dial may not be just a lighting effect. The inside edge of the back looks a bit nasty and the corrosion on the battery clip is worrying. Having lost a much-loved Ti VHP to internal corrosion, I'd walk away.

I think that one of the two Perpetual Calendar models is a much better HAQ experience. Apart from the hassle-free date, you get a 10-year lithium battery,


----------



## echoack

Thanks for the input. Do you find the Perpetual Calendar models become available often? Where are the best places to look? Thanks.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


----------



## chris01

echoack said:


> Thanks for the input. Do you find the Perpetual Calendar models become available often? Where are the best places to look? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


I've had two from eBay and one from WUS Sales. Chrono24 is worth checking as well - I saw a NOS Ti VHP (non-PC) on there last year; that would have been worth buying!

There's also watchdealseeker and watchrecon, although I've never seen any on either.

Also, I believe that there are Japanese sites that have a fair number of VHPs but I don't know any more than that. Perhaps someone else here will have some info.

Look for both Conquest and Flagship models. The latter is a more conventional style but rarer.


----------



## webvan

And I've been threatening to list my boxed Flagship VHP with bracelet and strap for some time, really need to work on it ;-)

So Chris, any thoughts on that solid gold VHP ? First time I've heard of one for sure...


----------



## chris01

webvan said:


> And I've been threatening to list my boxed Flagship VHP with bracelet and strap for some time, really need to work on it ;-)
> 
> So Chris, any thoughts on that solid gold VHP ? First time I've heard of one for sure...


Looks like you might have an interested buyer already!

The gold is a bit too much for my taste and wallet. I had a s/steel + gold PVD Conquest and had to sell it after my wife told me what she thought of it on my wrist. Since she usually ignores my watches I thought it advisable to listen.

I suspect that Walesa's bracelet is only gold plated (or PVD). This watch apparently weighs 115g, while my steel version was 106g. Only 9g difference doesn't seem enough for all-gold.

Did you look at the link in the listing?

Longines Conquest VHP 18K Gold Quartz Watch Shipped from London UK | eBay

The strap seems to say more about the wearer than a gold bracelet ever could. Very tasteful!


----------



## webvan

Yeah that strap is not great, there do seem to be hallmarks on "Lech Walesa's" VHP and it would be poor taste to have a plated bracelet on a solid gold watch, but who knows...


----------



## Mystic Traveller

Greetings to everyone! 

Great site, forum and this thread. 
I've been interested in 'superquartz' watches for a while and this has brought me to Longines VHP ones particularly.

Please can you tell me the years of this model manufacture?
Having read all pages I guess somewhere around 85's?
Does it have a digital calibration terminal?

I have only this picture, no movement ones.
I am thinking whether to buy it or not - whether it would be a good start for VHPs?

A seller claims this VHP to be a New old stock. (?) asking around 550$ or offering a trade.
Model number he gave is L3.613.3.15.6.

Many thanks in advance and have a nice weekend All! :-!
Alex.


----------



## ronalddheld

Mystic Traveller said:


> Greetings to everyone!
> 
> Great site, forum and this thread.
> I've been interested in 'superquartz' watches for a while and this has brought me to Longines VHP ones particularly.
> 
> Please can you tell me the years of this model manufacture?
> Having read all pages I guess somewhere around 85's?
> Does it have a digital calibration terminal?
> 
> I have only this picture, no movement ones.
> I am thinking whether to buy it or not - whether it would be a good start for VHPs?
> 
> A seller claims this VHP to be a New old stock. (?) asking around 550$ or offering a trade.
> Model number he gave is L3.613.3.15.6.
> 
> Many thanks in advance and have a nice weekend All! :-!
> Alex.
> 
> 
> View attachment 7891298
> View attachment 7891306


Welcome, although you should not have bumped such an old thread. You should be able to do the self calibration.


----------



## chris01

Mystic Traveller said:


> Greetings to everyone!
> 
> Great site, forum and this thread.
> I've been interested in 'superquartz' watches for a while and this has brought me to Longines VHP ones particularly.
> 
> Please can you tell me the years of this model manufacture?
> Having read all pages I guess somewhere around 85's?
> Does it have a digital calibration terminal?
> 
> I have only this picture, no movement ones.
> I am thinking whether to buy it or not - whether it would be a good start for VHPs?
> 
> A seller claims this VHP to be a New old stock. (?) asking around 550$ or offering a trade.
> Model number he gave is L3.613.3.15.6.
> 
> Many thanks in advance and have a nice weekend All! :-!
> Alex.


Have you read the whole thread? It should answer most of your questions.

There have been about three distinct models. First there was the Li VHP (around 84-85). Li refers to the lithium battery. This model was not user-adjustable. AVOID!

Then there was the plain VHP, in titanium and in steel (from about 85 into the 90s). This was easily user-adjustable and this is the version you've been looking at.

Then we got the VHP Perpetual Calendar, available as Conquest and Flagship models (until early 2000s), all in steel; the Flagships are quite rare. These are user-adjustable but it's quite difficult with the large Li battery covering the whole movement.

I can't speak for the Li VHP, but the other VHPs are generally equally good for accuracy. You will probably find with on old one that the ageing process has shifted the rate quite considerably and it would need serious tweaking. I bought an unused Ti VHP last year that was 22-25 years old. It was running at +128 SPY before I played with it and it's now at +3 SPY.

My suggestion is to go for the third range, as the perpetual calendar is a great feature. All VHP models, with the possible exception of very early items, have an independently-adjustable hour hand, but without the perp cal you have to move it round the dial twice every short month. The plain VHP (doesn't say perp cal on the dial) is really not very appealing.


----------



## Mystic Traveller

ronalddheld said:


> Welcome, although you should not have bumped such an old thread.


Thank you!
Actually a search engine found this thread for me and it wasn't closed that's why I decided to ask here.


----------



## Mystic Traveller

chris01 said:


> Have you read the whole thread?


Yes, I've read it all, thank you a lot for your thourough comments.


----------



## Hans Moleman

Mystic Traveller said:


> Yes, I've read it all, thank you a lot for your thourough comments.


25 years with the original battery? Make sure it hasn't leaked.


----------



## chris01

Hans Moleman said:


> 25 years with the original battery? Make sure it hasn't leaked.


Many of the older VHPs show clear signs of corrosion on the dial and hands, especially the Ti versions. This may be due to battery leakage or moisture ingress. Never buy one without at least seeing a good clear picture of the dial and if at all possible a photo of the movement. If the hands are pitted, walk away.

<edit> Also avoid any with flaking luminous paint.


----------



## webvan

An original VHP, the Li, has recently popped up on eBay [a reasonable 229€ ?] :


----------



## chris01

webvan said:


> An original VHP, the Li, has recently popped up on eBay [a reasonable 229€ ?]


Not at all reasonable, IMHO. This version does not have digital calibration. After 30+ years it will be way out and with no adjustment possible. Of interest only for a 'completist' VHP collector.


----------



## webvan

Yes, reasonable for an HEQ/VHP collector/completist of course.


----------



## chris01

webvan said:


> Yes, reasonable for an HEQ/VHP collector/completist of course.


Sure, but the VHP name is going to look a bit silly. 
I like to keep all my VHPs running and within +/-2 SPY.


----------



## ronalddheld

Anyone going to try for it?


----------



## SauMi

Do you maybe have the link? One week ago this watch with exactly the same Serial Number popped up on another auction page


----------



## chris01

SauMi said:


> Do you maybe have the link? One week ago this watch with exactly the same Serial Number popped up on another auction page


It's apparently sold but, if you insist, RARE Longines Conquest XL Titanium / Gold Plated Watch. Li VHP Quartz. Working | eBay


----------



## SauMi

Thanks a lot. Therefore this beauty is mine now (for half of the price of the bay). The seller on the other plattform said to me after i asked, that he jusf recently bought it from ebay but it was to small for him.


----------



## chris01

SauMi said:


> Thanks a lot. Therefore this beauty is mine now (for half of the price of the bay). The seller on the other plattform said to me after i asked, that he jusf recently bought it from ebay but it was to small for him.


Good for you. It would be interesting to hear about its performance, and I hope it's not too far out after 30 years, as it's not adjustable.


----------



## Mystic Traveller

Hi All!

Thanks to *chris01* advice I eventually went after the Perp Calendar models and finally got this one.

The watch repairer who changed the battery showed me the module and commented that 
it was in a pretty good condition apparently having been never disassembled or "drowned". Good news. 
I read the manual carefully and from the second try adjusted the calendar - 
it wouldn't have been obvious at all without having the manual at hand.

After the very preliminary accuracy check it showed approx. +1 sec in 5 days mostly *unworn.
*Since I've bought them because of the VHP thing in the first place now I need to learn on how to adjust the accuracy.
Should I start right now or would you recommend to wait until the whole month has passed to get monthly deviation?

*Longines Conquest V.H.P. Perpetual Calendar L546.2 
ETA module 252.611

*


----------



## chris01

Mystic Traveller said:


> Hi All!
> 
> Thanks to *chris01* advice I eventually went after the Perp Calendar models and finally got this one.
> 
> The watch repairer who changed the battery showed me the module and commented that
> it was in a pretty good condition apparently having been never disassembled or "drowned". Good news.
> I read the manual carefully and from the second try adjusted the calendar -
> it wouldn't have been obvious at all without having the manual at hand.
> 
> After the very preliminary accuracy check it showed approx. +1 sec in 5 days mostly *unworn.
> *Since I've bought them because of the VHP thing in the first place now I need to learn on how to adjust the accuracy.
> Should I start right now or would you recommend to wait until the whole month has passed to get monthly deviation?
> 
> *Longines Conquest V.H.P. Perpetual Calendar L546.2
> ETA module 252.611
> 
> *


Nice choice. I have the same model with a blue dial.

Don't rush to regulate. After a month's careful measurement you'll have a good basis for tweaking. Do it too soon and you'll be chasing the rate up and down; and this isn't the easiest VHP to adjust.

If you can find one of these it makes regulation very simple:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/third-hand-eta-thermolines-91075.html

Failing that, here's a brilliant home-made idea:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/longines-vhp-accuracy-86346-9.html#post2801440

They both work.


----------



## Mystic Traveller

chris01 said:


> Nice choice. They both work.


Thank you, Chris! :-!
Those 2 links are really useful and I will definitely need to
re-read the whole thread on regulation before I start my endeavour.


----------



## chris01

Mystic Traveller said:


> Thank you, Chris! :-!
> Those 2 links are really useful and I will definitely need to
> re-read the whole thread on regulation before I start my endeavour.


Do you have a copy of the ETA Manufacturing Information document for the 252.611 calibre? Necessary for the calibration instructions.


----------



## Mystic Traveller

chris01 said:


> Do you have a copy of the ETA Manufacturing Information document for the 252.611 calibre? Necessary for the calibration instructions.


Actually I have some sort of an abridged manual with pictures which I used for setting a calendar.
But there are no calibration instructions there, I thought I'd follow those in the thread which link you provided above.


----------



## chris01

Mystic Traveller said:


> Actually I have some sort of an abridged manual with pictures which I used for setting a calendar.
> But there are no calibration instructions there, I thought I'd follow those in the thread which link you provided above.


Best to go to the source. There is a little gold mine of information here:

https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DefaultDesktop.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1

Select Technical Documents, then you can browse the Calibre list; you need the 252.611 ... Manufacturing Information. The other docs are interesting and/or useful as well.

Bookmark the site, as you will probably need to read about other TC movements in the future.


----------



## jisham

chris01 said:


> Don't rush to regulate. After a month's careful measurement you'll have a good basis for tweaking. Do it too soon and you'll be chasing the rate up and down; and this isn't the easiest VHP to adjust.


 Agreed. Get a good baseline rate first so you know how much to adjust. It's easy to "chase rate" if you try too soon. And the closer it is to "ideal rate", the longer you need to measure to get a feel for how much to adjust. 4 spy is not a lot!



chris01 said:


> If you can find one of these it makes regulation very simple:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/third-hand-eta-thermolines-91075.html
> 
> Failing that, here's a brilliant home-made idea:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/longines-vhp-accuracy-86346-9.html#post2801440
> 
> They both work.


 These definitely help. The old pre-pepertual calendars are easy to adjust with the battery in, but the PC's really need a third hand. I was lucky enough to find one of the bulova rigs on ebay many months ago. It's a bit of a pain to get set up, but once it's done, adjusting the VHP is easy. Then it's back to measuring rate, and seeing if I counted the right number of taps, or need another once.


----------



## Mystic Traveller

chris01 said:


> Best to go to the source.


 Thanks very much, Chris, much appreciated. Got it!


----------



## Eloper

Alan,
i have exactly the same watch, given to me by the wife of a colleague following his death.
Love the watch, accuracy is impressive.
i am missing the winged symbol on the watch band, otherwise in perfect condition.
Thank you for your post and pictures.


----------



## JerryD

I am confused about the correct battery for this watch. I have a Conquest VHP with 174.4 movement. Everything I read on this forum suggests the correct battery is Renata 371, but my dealer and Longines themselves say it should be 395. Any thoughts?


----------



## ppaulusz

JerryD said:


> I am confused about the correct battery for this watch. I have a Conquest VHP with 174.4 movement. Everything I read on this forum suggests the correct battery is Renata 371, but my dealer and Longines themselves say it should be 395. Any thoughts?...


Very simple: use the largest one of the two that fits when the back cover is placed back to its position!


----------



## wbird

To be clear Longines and your dealer say it should be a 395, some folks on the forum say something else like a 371, and you want clarification. Put in a 395. I mean you really think folks here know more about Longines than Longines? Kind of a no brainer.


----------



## chris01

The dimensions are: 371 (SR920SW) = 9.5 x 2.0 mm, 395 (SR927SW) = 9.5 x 2.7 mm. Given that they are cheap, it's not a big deal to get one of each. But be very careful if trying to force the 395 to fit. Both my VHP Ti watches were issued with Renata 371, and this lower capacity cell lasted a full 5 years every time.


----------



## wbird

JerryD said:


> I am confused about the correct battery for this watch. I have a Conquest VHP with 174.4 movement. Everything I read on this forum suggests the correct battery is Renata 371, but my dealer and Longines themselves say it should be 395. Any thoughts?
> View attachment 14592833
> 
> View attachment 14592837


On a related note, is that a pretty rusted crown stem, and an old case gasket? Just wondering considering the age, if you are considering a partial or full service as part of the battery change.


----------



## ppaulusz

chris01 said:


> ...Both my VHP Ti watches were issued with Renata 371, and this lower capacity cell lasted a full 5 years every time.


In that case you must have the later non-dual-quartz version (Cal. L 237.2 = ETA 255.563) fitted in your VHP Ti watches and that uses less power than the dual-quartz version (Cal. L 174.4 = ETA 255.561).
Here is the picture of the Cal. L 237.2 (ETA 255.563) fitted with a 371 size battery:


----------



## chris01

ppaulusz said:


> In that case you must have the later non-dual-quartz version (Cal. L 237.2 = ETA 255.563) fitted in your VHP Ti watches and that uses less power than the dual-quartz version (Cal. L 174.4 = ETA 255.561).
> Here is the picture of the Cal. L 237.2 (ETA 255.563) fitted with a 371 size battery:


Wrong. Both, from 1986 and around 1990, had the L174.4, exactly like the OPs picture.


----------



## DaveM

ppaulusz said:


> In that case you must have the later non-dual-quartz version (Cal. L 237.2 = ETA 255.563) fitted in your VHP Ti watches and that uses less power than the dual-quartz version (Cal. L 174.4 = ETA 255.561).
> Here is the picture of the Cal. L 237.2 (ETA 255.563) fitted with a 371 size battery:


Interesting !
I look at ETA manual for dual-xtal ETA quartz 255.561 and it specifies 373
I look at ETA manual for not-dual ETA quartz 255.563 and it specifies 371 or 373 
373 is 1.6mm high and 29mAH
371 is 2.0mm high and 35mAH
395 is 2.7mm high and 55mAH

As previous posts I would use biggest that fitted, but I just looked at my 255.561.
It is fitted with 373. Not sure, But I think that 371 would be OK, 395 would be a tight fit.


----------



## ppaulusz

chris01 said:


> Wrong. Both, from 1986 and around 1990, had the L174.4, exactly like the OPs picture.


All right then you were wrong with the 5 years lasting of the batteries. Simple really.


----------



## chris01

ppaulusz said:


> All right then you were wrong with the 5 years lasting of the batteries. Simple really.


You really can't bear to lose an argument, can you? Please don't talk cr#p just to try and score a point. And don't call me a liar; I know exactly how long my batteries (8 in all) lasted. If anyone wonders why I have mostly given up on this decaying forum, read and learn. And that's my final post in this thread.


----------



## wbird

ppaulusz said:


> In that case you must have the later non-dual-quartz version (Cal. L 237.2 = ETA 255.563) fitted in your VHP Ti watches and that uses less power than the dual-quartz version (Cal. L 174.4 = ETA 255.561).
> Here is the picture of the Cal. L 237.2 (ETA 255.563) fitted with a 371 size battery:


One thing is certain there is no way that is the battery that watch came with. Longines would never ship a watch with anything but a Renata battery. Since the battery was obviously replaced, there is nothing to say it was replaced with the proper battery.

By the way the proper battery is what the manufacturer says it is, not the biggest one that you can fit into the case, that's horrible advice, and can lead to all kinds of damage.


----------



## ppaulusz

chris01 said:


> ...And don't call me a liar...


And I did not call you a liar... That is a fact that anyone can easily check.
Yes, you were wrong with that 5 years claim but that that does not mean you are a liar... Perhaps you made an honest mistake... How about that?!
Or perhaps you wished that I called you liar so you can make a tantrum but that would be kindergarten stuff, would not be?


----------



## ppaulusz

chris01 said:


> You really can't bear to lose an argument, can you? Please don't talk cr#p just to try and score a point. And don't call me a liar; I know exactly how long my batteries (8 in all) lasted. If anyone wonders why I have mostly given up on this decaying forum, read and learn. And that's my final post in this thread.


Now, just for the record: You are not arguing with me but rather the Omega Watch Company!
Here is the user manual of the Omega Cal.1441 (ETA 255.561): http://www.old-omegas.com/pics/1441/p12.jpg
And it says: "*The battery (Omega number 9936) gives your Omega a performance autonomy of around two years*."
According to this page: https://batteryguy.com/omega+9936-replacement-battery.html
the battery (Omega number 9936) is a Renate 373 battery.

Now, I could say a few more words but I rather not as we know that you have a very short fuse and it would be boring to read again those childish tantrum of yours...


----------



## ronalddheld

Please stay in topic without any real or perceived personal attacks.


----------



## wbird

Jerry if you're still out there let's see if I can clear things up for you, and get back on topic, you know before it was rudely interupted by someone telling a long time member he was confused and didn't know the movement in his watch, and that either he couldn't count to 5, or that it was impossible based on irrelavant information.

First and foremost Longines, Swatch, ETA, Omega etc routinely release service bulletins for the proper maintanence and service for their watches. Based on performance and service history this may include modifications and changes to the battery and how it is secured in the holder. For example, Omega released a service bulletin for the 1441 movements that went to the 395, than in 2016 to the 371 and a modification to the spring retention holder. The point is that just because the original battery may have been a 373 doesn't mean it is still the recomended or proper battery now. Clearly Chris's watches came with a 371, and the one pictured by another member has a 371 equivalent in it. 

But to be clear the folks that will know the answer will be Longines, if they say it now uses the 395, than its what they support and provide a waranty for.

Now let's talk a little bit about batteries since someone muddied the waters a bit. When a manual says a battery will last "about two years" it doesn't mean that won't last much longer. A battery stored in a relatively warm environment and not subjected to shocks can last considerably longer, than its projected lifespan. For example it is easy to see that a watch that had a 29 mAh 373 Renata battery replaced with a Reanata 371 that comes in either 35 or 40 mAh would last considerably longer. That SR920SW from Maxell is a 45 mAh battery and would last even longer all things being equal. Battery life is primarily a function of mAh, handling, and temperature

The point is it's "simple" to see how Chris's watches lasted 5 years, he clearly stated they came with 371's and they were probably the 40 mAh versions. The 373 only comes in 29 mAh from Renata.

Hope this helps you out Jerry.


----------



## ppaulusz

wbird said:


> ...The point is it's "simple" to see how Chris's watches lasted 5 years, he clearly stated they came with 371's and they were probably the 40 mAh versions. The 373 only comes in 29 mAh from Renata...


Well, all right, you asked for it so you will get it but don't be mad at me as it was you who asked for it:
According to Omega, the 373 (29 mAh) battery last around 2 years. "Simple" mathematics tells us that the 371 (40 mAh) would last around 2.76 years. If 2.76 = 5 then you and Chris (and the ones who liked Christ's post) are right. If 2.76 is only around 55% of 5 then I let you guys to reach the right conclusion...;-)


----------



## ppaulusz

ronalddheld said:


> Please stay in topic without any real or perceived personal attacks.


Dear Mr. Moderator, how about to start a sub-topic of HAQ about simple/elementary mathematics?! As far as I can see, there is considerable demand for it...


----------



## wbird

ppaulusz said:


> Well, all right, you asked for it so you will get it but don't be mad at me as it was you who asked for it:
> According to Omega, the 373 (29 mAh) battery last around 2 years. "Simple" mathematics tells us that the 371 (40 mAh) would last around 2.76 years. If 2.76 = 5 then you and Chris (and the ones who liked Christ's post) are right. If 2.76 is only around 55% of 5 then I let you guys to reach the right conclusion...;-)


Well what you failed to define in your math is "about." A little basic engineering and design knowledge will clear it up.

If an engineer designs a system and gives a life expectency of about two years he will design additional capacity, typically around 25 to up to 50% depending on how over engineered the product is. If anything ETA tends to over engineer their products. So lets assume say 35%. That means about 2 years with a 373 will last about 2.7 years under optimal conditions, less if it sees any shocks or adverse temperature conditions. But it will always be at least 2 years. That's just basic design for a product of this type, you want to be sure to make it through the waranty period.

Now you place a 371, 40 mAh battery in it you will see the increase just based on the mAh of 40/29* 2.7 which brings you up to 3.72 years. But now you have to take into account that additional 35% capacity the engineers put into that 371 battery also which brings you up to a little over 5 years. Again assuming optimum conditions and no shocks.

Now of course I could be low balling the additional design capacity and for all I know a 35 mAh battery might have the ability to achieve 5 years. I don't know, about that. But I am confident that Chris can count and this explains why he got 5 years. Clearly we all have had watches with batteries that have exceeded the expected life, and this is far more the norm with Renata batteries, less so with bargain brands.

If any other engineers want to weigh in feel free.


----------



## Tom-HK

wbird said:


> Now of course I could be low balling the additional design capacity and for all I know a 35 mAh battery might have the ability to achieve 5 years. I don't know, about that. But I am confident that Chris can count and this explains why he got 5 years. Clearly we all have had watches with batteries that have exceeded the expected life, and this is far more the norm with Renata batteries, less so with bargain brands.
> 
> If any other engineers want to weigh in feel free.


Indeed, I would confidently say that there are few people, if any, who have taken more consistent, long-term, careful and precise measurements of VHP performance than Chris.


----------



## ppaulusz

Tom-HK said:


> Indeed, I would confidently say that there are few people, if any, who have taken more consistent, long-term, careful and precise measurements of VHP performance than Chris.


Tom, my ETA 255.561 fitted VHP watches never run more than 3 years with a single battery... never!
I deliberately had not included my experience because you guys are always after rock solid evidence if I have to prove anything that is...
So I got the Omega Watch Company and basic mathematics but you still fool yourself with Chris' obviously wrong claim.
So be it but do not expect miracle and what Chris claim is nothing short of miracle...
Now, I made my case, any visitor should have a clear choice and can make up his/her mind what to accept and what to reject.
The HAQ forum should be a place of reliable source of info about HAQ related subjects. My goal is to maintain the reliability of the HAQ forum, that's all!

Note: More than 10 years ago I started this topic (*The history of the Longines VHP*) so it is my duty as the OP to make sure that the info in this well visited topic is valid and correct or at least the correct info is to be found by the keen visitor. I fulfilled my obligation in this regard and that is what matters for me nothing else.


----------



## DaveM

ppaulusz said:


> Tom, my ETA 255.561 fitted VHP watches never run more than 3 years with a single battery... never!
> 
> Which battery are they fitted with, 371 or 373 ?


----------



## ppaulusz

DaveM said:


> ppaulusz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tom, my ETA 255.561 fitted VHP watches never run more than 3 years with a single battery... never!
> 
> Which battery are they fitted with, 371 or 373 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 371 Energizer and Japanese brand of batteries. My watchmakers (yes, more than 1) don't like the Swiss-made Renata.
Click to expand...


----------



## ppaulusz

wbird said:


> &#8230; a Reanata 371 that comes in either 35 or 40 mAh... The point is it's "simple" to see how Chris's watches lasted 5 years, he clearly stated they came with 371's and they were probably the 40 mAh versions...


Well, more bad news coming your direction: Forget the unreliable web pages and go to the manufacturer's site in this case Renata:
https://www.renata.com/consumer-products/silver-oxide-0/

Forget the urban legend of two types of Renata 371 (35 mAh and 40 mAh) as that is crap! Renata do have a 40 mAh battery, the 370 model but the Renata 371 is 35 mAh!

If you don't like it then bad luck but do not argue with me but rather with Renata! (So far you guys have an argument with the Omega Watch Company and the Renata Battery Company... well, good luck!)

According to the above the Renata 371 (35 mAh) would last around 2.42 years! We are getting further and further from the mythical 5 years... Sorry but facts are facts and dreams are dreams! Please, let's stay with facts for the sake of sanity!

Also, full credit to *DaveM*, who in his post (*#**212*) correctly identified the Renata 371 as a 35 mAh battery!:-!


----------



## ppaulusz

chris01 said:


> You really can't bear to lose an argument, can you? Please don't talk cr#p just to try and score a point. And don't call me a liar; I know exactly how long my batteries (8 in all) lasted. If anyone wonders why I have mostly given up on this decaying forum, read and learn. And that's my final post in this thread.


Now, Chris, don't you think it's time to let us know the magic you apply those Renata 371 cells of yours (yes, all 8 please) that can perform twice as long as predicted by science?
Perhaps, you would also like to elaborate of your style of losing an argument and talking about crap just for the benefit of this forum. How about that?!


----------



## dwalby

ppaulusz said:


> The HAQ forum should be a place of reliable source of info about HAQ related subjects. My goal is to maintain the reliability of the HAQ forum, that's all!
> 
> Note: More than 10 years ago I started this topic (*The history of the Longines VHP*) so it is my duty as the OP to make sure that the info in this well visited topic is valid and correct or at least the correct info is to be found by the keen visitor.


As a keen visitor/new member I don't care at all about trivial battery life arguments, when the battery dies I'll replace it.


----------



## ppaulusz

dwalby said:


> As a new member here I'll go on record as not caring at all about trivial battery life arguments, when the battery dies I'll replace it.


You don't care but you took the trouble of reading it and commenting on it. What would have happened if you had cared about it?!
What is trivial for one might be essential for the other - it's very subjective.


----------



## dwalby

ppaulusz said:


> What would have happened if you had cared about it?!


I would wait for my own battery to die to get first-hand data on my VHP battery life, and then report back to you with the precise information on that duration so you could continue your invaluable service of providing accurate information to this forum.


----------



## wbird

From Renata USA a simple search for 371 40 mAh would have yielded this. No myth and Not sure what your watchmaker is using, but it’s not as good as Chris’s battery.


Silver Oxide Coins / Low Drain

371 OEM
Thumbnail
Technical Data

Capacity

40mAh
Voltage

1.55V
Weight

0.59g
Dimensions

9.5 2.1mm
Downloads

Datasheet - 371 OEM Version
Applications

Wearables
Medical Devices
Mobile Sensors
Packaging

Multipack-E (MP-E)
Industrial bulk packs (IB)
Cross Reference Guide
I.E.C. 60086-3

SR920
I.E.C. 60086-2

SR69
Maxell

SR920SW
Panasonic

SR920SW
Sony

SR920SW
Toshiba

SR920SW
Varta

V371
Rayovac

371
Duracell

D 370/371
Citizen

280-31
Seiko

SB-AN
Energizer - Eveready

371
Versions / Variants
Thumbnail
low drain
371
Capacity

35.00mAh
Voltage

1.55V
Weight

0.55g
Dimensions

9.5 2.1mm
Looking for something else!?

GET IN TOUCH
OR
CHECK CUSTOMER SOLUTIONS

Menu Footer
Products
Batteries
Rechargeables
Holders
Distribution
Distributors
Packaging
Safety
Customer Solutions
About Renata
Renata USA
Renata Switzerland
Part of Swatch Group


----------



## ppaulusz

According to Renata USA there are two types of 371 batteries:
https://www.renatabatteries.us/products/batteries/silver-oxide-coins/371
https://www.renatabatteries.us/products/batteries/silver-oxide-coins/371-oem

I only could locate one type of Renata on the Renata Swiss-site (the 35 mAh model).

So we are back at 55% or 49% in relation to the 5 years claim of Chris... and that is what you guys are trying desperately to sell us as a 5 years lasting solution.
Well, pull the other one!;-)


----------



## wbird

Just want to make a quick statement. Quite frequently in my field that includes science, engineering, and marketing my staff presents me with data that goes against established beliefs or norms. If from credible sources we put our efforts into understanding how it is possible. What don't we understand. It would be ridiculous to argue that it can't be, and more importantly it's just bad science and business. What we don't understand, we need to figure in order to improve.

Having said that, I've said everything I need to say about Chris and his data, I believe him and his observations, and presented a possible explanation. Might add he's shown he's qualified to make observations, its not his job to explain how his watches achieved those results, not sure if he's an engineer or has any technical background and it doesn't matter.

Now to get back on topic what is the proper battery for the L174.4?

It came with a 373 originally based on some data.

Than a bunch of people received watches with a 371.

JerryD posted that Longines and his watchmaker said the proper battery is a 395.

As I said earlier the only way to answer this question, would be from Longines and Swatch. Data from personal experience is nice, but that's not technical information from the manufacturer, and does not have the same level of expertise. I hope, and doubt anyone here is going to argue they know more about the L174.4 and its service history than Longines.

As far as I'm concerned its a 395, unless someone can show something current from Longines or Swatch that refutes what JerryD posted.


----------



## jisham

Wow, I remember when I joined years ago, I thought ppaulusz was the wise old man, and later when chris01 arrived, I thought he was the eager new guy. It's sad to see this forum devolve to this point. I hope we haven't scared chris01 away.


----------



## farmerboy

It is frustrating to be really interested in HAQ and specifically the VHP and see a new post and open it only find it is aimless bickering about a battery.


----------



## ppaulusz

farmerboy said:


> It is frustrating to be really interested in HAQ and specifically the VHP and see a new post and open it only find it is aimless bickering about a battery.


All right, I can see a few problems here:
- You are frustrated. Do you want us to advice you against frustration? I'm afraid it might not fit within the boundaries of the HAQ forum...
- Are you expecting us to entertain you with VHP related info? Well, normally it should be a give and take story. Don't you think that you are also responsible of the entertainment value of the HAQ forum? Isn't it time to read some valuable contribution from you in this forum? If you are so demanding, why don't you show good example? Who is holding you back from quality contribution? Whinging is easy but without quality contribution it is just pathetic but somehow I'm not surprised...
- The battery issue is a valid one because it is not irrelevant whether 3 years or 5 years is the running time of the battery.


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## Longjean

I bought my VHP in spring 2012 from a seller in Sofia, (255.561 eta). I assume that the seller fitted a new battery before he sold it.
I replaced the battery on 7/5/2017. That is a fact which I recorded at the time and although I remembered that the battery had lasted 5yrs. I had to look up the record for the dates.


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## ppaulusz

Longjean said:


> I bought my VHP in spring 2012 from a seller in Sofia, (255.561 eta). I assume that the seller fitted a new battery before he sold it.
> I replaced the battery on 7/5/2017. That is a fact which I recorded at the time and although I remembered that the battery had lasted 5yrs. I had to look up the record for the dates.


Let Longines, Omega and Renata know about it...


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## woodville63

Every thread I visit in HAQ I see everybody picking on my fellow Aussie. Please stop and resume your proper place in the pecking order. He is omniscient and omnipotent - you should all know this by now!:-d Obviously, being an Aussie, I am second in order, albeit immeasurably behind my liege.;-)

Repeat after me:

_*God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change*,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference._

Before visiting f9 say it twenty times.:-!


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## ronalddheld

Mr Moderator is asking for sniping to stop.


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## henrylr

ronalddheld said:


> Mr Moderator is asking for sniping to stop.


Hi all and no sniping here.
I've come across an old VHP and can't find a serial number anywhere. The only numbers are 255563 on the movement and a faint, maybe, 4978 with 237 below it. I believe 237 is the number Longines used for the caliber on this model. All the other VHPs I've seen had serial numbers on the back. Could this be a fake?

Thanks,
henrylr


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## Philip

henrylr said:


> I've come across an old VHP and can't find a serial number anywhere. The only numbers are 255563 on the movement and a faint, maybe, 4978 with 237 below it. I believe 237 is the number Longines used for the caliber on this model. All the other VHPs I've seen had serial numbers on the back. Could this be a fake?


Could it have a replacement caseback on it?

(I bought a VHP some years ago on eBay, only to find that it had a L156.2 non-VHP movement in it. All the bits are genuine, so I suspect that the VHP movement had died at some point, and had been replaced with the non-VHP one to save money.)


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## henrylr

Thanks for reply. Does yours have a serial number on the case back?


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## Philip

henrylr said:


> Thanks for reply. Does yours have a serial number on the case back?


Yes, it does. But of course it might not be the original case back, given that the movement has been changed...


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## henrylr

Here is another question about my watch. The words TIME ZONE are impressed on the case back. This watch does not have a third hand that is seen on watches with two time zone capability. Could the case back on my watch have been replaced with a case back from a VHP with some time zone feature?

Thanks,
henrylr


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## henrylr

Here is another question about my watch. The words TIME ZONE are impressed on the case back. This watch does not have a third hand that is seen on watches with two time zone capability. Could the case back on my watch have been replaced with a case back from a VHP with some time zone feature?

Thanks,
henrylr


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## Tom-HK

henrylr said:


> Here is another question about my watch. The words TIME ZONE are impressed on the case back. This watch does not have a third hand that is seen on watches with two time zone capability. Could the case back on my watch have been replaced with a case back from a VHP with some time zone feature?
> 
> Thanks,
> henrylr


Bear in mind that when ETA refer to a 'time-zone mechanism' in their movements, they are talking about an IAHH.


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## henrylr

Does anyone know if the L237.2 had a perpetual calendar?

Thanks,
henrylr


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## Tom-HK

henrylr said:


> Does anyone know if the L237.2 had a perpetual calendar?
> 
> Thanks,
> henrylr


No, not on this movement. The L546.2 (ETA 252.611) had a perpetual calendar, but that came along a bit later.


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