# Zenith Resale



## watchulook (May 17, 2011)

Wondering if anyone has any opinion on why Zenith watches doesn't hold value as well vs. the other high end brands. Being an established manufacturer with award winning in-house movements, I'd expect them to be more popular. What are they doing wrong? :-s


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## Veritas99 (Dec 15, 2006)

I'm sure it's a variety of reasons, but my personal opinion is the lack of advertising. Not to folks in the know, the general population. Ask most people in the US what they think of when you say "Zenith" and 10 out of 10 will say a TV manufacturer. That lack of brand recognition contributes to less demand on the secondary market.


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## CH-dmath (Mar 20, 2012)

Veritas99 said:


> I'm sure it's a variety of reasons, but my personal opinion is the lack of advertising.


I think that's right but it doesn't entirely explain the situation. There are other brands that are not in the non-wis consciousness that hold value better. For example, ask people in the US what they think of when you say "IWC" and most would probably shrug their shoulders. Something else must contribute to the lower resales. Whatever it is, I suspect that Monsieur Dufour's actions are going to improve the situation as he seems to be taking the brand in the right direction.


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## Rickr23 (May 29, 2008)

Little demand? Zenith sales figures for new watches are tiny compared to some other brands, let alone sales of used watches.


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

watchulook said:


> ... doesn't hold value as well vs. the other high end brands...


I guess you would have to name the high end brands. Rolex does keep its values, but that is due to its supply and distribution system and their lawyers. Omega is pushing that way, but I am not sure they have yet reached it. My experience with UN is that they are no different than the rest. But I have not touched PP, VC, and AP. Then again, I most likely will not ever do so.

So what we have here is more like Zenith behaving like the rest of the crowd, with your usual one or two or so outliers. At least, that is what I have seen.

Cheers!

Dan


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## mdatta (Apr 20, 2012)

There was an interesting article in the Financial Times recently (see link below) talking about Patek Philippe resale values. Much higher than the rest. That being said, I wonder if we may see an increase in the resale value of Zenith for two reasons 1) they are increasing their presence in the US market, and 2) the bidding on the recent Zenith El Primero at auction at Christie's (which went to Zenith) demonstrated an increase in brand knowledge (and therefore auction price). Just thinking.

Milt

Only time will tell - FT.com


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## John Chris (Jul 7, 2010)

In the meantime, for heaven's sake take advantage of the current prices!!!! An example on Chrono24 (I know nothing about the seller) - a DeLuca II in steel and 18k gold, ref. 38.0300.400 (model 38.0395.400), 200 pieces made, 1990: https://www.chrono24.com/en/zenith/...to&dosearch=true&urlSubpath=/search/index.htm - at what seems to me to be a very good price, and probably flexible at that. I have one, and trust me: it has fantastic wrist presence.

Chris


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Sorry, but your link did not work. :-(

Dan


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

D N Ravenna said:


> So what we have here is more like Zenith behaving like the rest of the crowd, with your usual one or two or so outliers. At least, that is what I have seen.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Dan


That rings true to me. With a few exceptions, most watches take a big hit once they are driven off the lot. Zenith simply acts like the majority of brands.


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## John Chris (Jul 7, 2010)

D N Ravenna said:


> Sorry, but your link did not work. :-(
> 
> Dan


It works for me! But you can search Chrono24 for Zenith El Primero, used, under 1800 euros, and find it. The asking price is 1700 euros. Vendor is in Italy.


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## avers (Feb 25, 2010)

Perhaps the reason is that their new models are priced on the higher end of the spectrum and there are better options in that price category? And re-sale just places more realistic price tag on their watches? For example, I recently saw a pre-owned Zenith for sale here on forum for about $5000. Many potential buyers would rather spend that much money on a Panerai or similar instantly recognizable brand.


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## avers (Feb 25, 2010)

avers said:


> Perhaps the reason is that their new models are priced on the higher end of the spectrum and there are better options in that price category? And re-sale just places more realistic price tag on their watches? For example, I recently saw a pre-owned Zenith for sale here on forum for about $5000. Many potential buyers would rather spend that much money on a Panerai or similar instantly recognizable brand.


...for example:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-zenith-el-primero-36000-vph-694860.html


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## tracktime (May 30, 2010)

Well.. I thnk zenith does not hold value as well as other high end brand because of their high some-what inflated msrp from the beginning....
Yes I love the defyss and the new captains but when I look at the MSRP I cant help wondering if anybody would pay FULL price thus the usual discount from the AD's.
El Primero has not seen much of a change since its been developed decades ago and granted its an eye candy but with all the other mid-tiered brands coming out with IHM's,
it just doesnt have the edge anymore.. There was a time when El Primero was the king in chronograph with its 36000 vph, but now that is considered normal
This is coming from someone who owned an El Primero and sold it for a heavy loss


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Well, it is true that the El Primero is (apart from the historical aspect of being the world's very first automatic chronograph movement) just one among many these days. There are several like it and with more or less the same base features (Breitling, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, JLC.....). Plus the others have a vertical clutch if you want a jump free chrono start. At the same time, it has to be said that, despite its age, the EP is definitely not worse. It is durable and, due to its high beat, extremely accurate. By now, there are lots of added features if you want them (split seconds, alarm, tourbillon) and the movement supports most of them without complaining despite not really developed in the first place to carry the burden of additional complications. On the whole, I would agree that the lack of resale value has more to do with an inflated starting price (at least for the Nataf models) than the quality of the movement.

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

tracktime said:


> Well.. I thnk zenith does not hold value as well as other high end brand because of their high some-what inflated msrp from the beginning....
> (


But Zenith does hold its value quite well, if you look at their vintage watches.

They sold for a sharp price back then and (at least some some models) are worth a lot more now.

True, like many other Swiss brands, today's prices of new wathes seem rather inflated in comparison.

Why should a new Zenith El Primero cost 4 times as much as the same watch costed 40 years ago (that is _after _you have already taken into account inflation)?

But the same goes for the other Swiss brands : todays prices for the same watches which they were making already 40 years ago have multiplied many times.

And still they can't meet the demand!


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## nickma (Jun 5, 2012)

Because they've lost their brand integrity & identity. This is because they lack focus, and try to it all - from fabulous, contemporary interpretations of their historical portfolio to hideous bling and irritatingly self-conscious orological contortions. If they dropped the B.S. and concentrated on what they are world class at, they would substantially increase their market desirability. As long as they don't know what they stand for nor shall we. Being a great manufacture simply isn't enough any more.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Well, I wouldn't be that unkind. It's only for the Nataf years that Zenith lost its direction (plus possibly in the "dark years" of using generic movements, but then, almost everyone was at it in those days). One thing that bugs me about Zenith is a certain one-sidedness: they mostly make gent's watches. There are hardly any 100% sports watches - and for that, I mean that they need not look like a sports watch but rather behave like one. I have frequently criticised them for this and I am going to do it again - a real sports watch needs a screw down crown! Plus screw down pushers if it is a chronograph. If Omega can make stylish watches decades ago that are still waterproof because of a screw down crown ("Seamaster" range - looks like a gent's watch, perfectly waterproof), why can't Zenith?!

Apart from that, Zenith has been like that for decades. In the twenties and thirties, they were making wrist watches but were still mainly a pocket watch company. In the fifties and sixties, when many other makers were starting to make waterprooof sports watches, they still stuck to gent's watches. They have always been associated more with pilot watches than divers watches - and in the early Nataf years, were associated almost entirely with elegant watches (until the modern Defy, the most _sportif _watch was the "Class Sport").

Hartmut Richter


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