# An old trick for fast and effective watch cleaning?



## Hodmandod

I have thought long and hard before posting this as I realise it may create a little discussion - possibly not all supportive. I would however like to hear the "experts" feedback.

First of all let me put some context - 

1. I am not a watch repairer
2. I wouldn't suggest this for an expensive, valued or luxury watch
3. I have used this several times over many years on my Edox from the late 1960's; and several "beaters" with no apparent ill effect
4. I was shown this "trick" by my father 50 years ago 

The issue
An old watch isn't keeping good time and can't be adjusted simply using the hairspring adjustment - suggesting it needs a clean.

The method
Take the strap off the watch.
Make sure the watch is wound.
Remove the back.
In an old but clean white saucer place a small pool of lighter fluid in the cup indentation.
Straddle the watch over the pool of fluid and leave overnight.

The result
More often than not the remaining lighter fluid will have a significant deposit of muck, grit and grime in it and the watch will be ticking over regularly and smoothly!

Why I think it works (my guess work here)
Obviously the volatiles in the lighter fluid permeate the inner workings of the movement and all the crud and accumulations of the years simply drop out of the watch. At the same time there are enough residual oils in the fluid (it is manufactured from various oils) to leave a fine coating on the moving parts AND "reactivate" any remaining oil sitting in jewel wells etc.

Has anyone else heard of or makes use of this technique? 

Looking forward to hearing back - I think. ;-)


----------



## emso

Hodmandod said:


> I have thought long and hard before posting this as I realise it may create a little discussion - possibly not all supportive. I would however like to hear the "experts" feedback.
> 
> First of all let me put some context -
> 
> 1. I am not a watch repairer
> 2. I wouldn't suggest this for an expensive, valued or luxury watch
> 3. I have used this several times over many years on my Edox from the late 1960's; and several "beaters" with no apparent ill effect
> 4. I was shown this "trick" by my father 50 years ago
> 
> The issue
> An old watch isn't keeping good time and can't be adjusted simply using the hairspring adjustment - suggesting it needs a clean.
> 
> The method
> Take the strap off the watch.
> Make sure the watch is wound.
> Remove the back.
> In an old but clean white saucer place a small pool of lighter fluid in the cup indentation.
> Straddle the watch over the pool of fluid and leave overnight.
> 
> The result
> More often than not the remaining lighter fluid will have a significant deposit of muck, grit and grime in it and the watch will be ticking over regularly and smoothly!
> 
> Why I think it works (my guess work here)
> Obviously the volatiles in the lighter fluid permeate the inner workings of the movement and all the crud and accumulations of the years simply drop out of the watch. At the same time there are enough residual oils in the fluid (it is manufactured from various oils) to leave a fine coating on the moving parts AND "reactivate" any remaining oil sitting in jewel wells etc.
> 
> Has anyone else heard of or makes use of this technique?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing back - I think. ;-)


How come i never thought of this?
I guess my IQ is not so high as i hoped for...

br
emso

p.s sent from my sh**y phone, so sorry for typing mistakes


----------



## Hodmandod

You can also use a couple of toothpicks or similar to suspend the watch at a greater distance depending on the size of the watch and saucer - you don't want or need it to be right above the fluid; an inch or two is more than close enough.


----------



## Roland Ranfft

Hi there,



Hodmandod said:


> ...you don't want or need it to be right above the fluid; an inch or two is more than close enough.


Why not leaving the watch on the whrist? Few minutes daily driving with open fuel tank should keep the watch clean and well lubricated.

Regards, Roland Ranfft


----------



## BenchGuy

*"old"*...have no knowledge of the origin of this procedure
*"trick"*...definitely...the kind of thing snake-oil salesmen were tarred and feathered for.
*"fast"*...maybe. I suppose set up is kind of fast, depending upon the saucer and movement. However, in the time spent twiddling my thumbs overnite, I could have faster stripped, correctly cleaned _*and lubircated *(I was going to correct the spelling...but in Texas, this is what we actually do, we lubircate...)_ the movement.
*"effective"*...only in the sense that in some cases a non-running watch ends up running after the procedure. In the sense of a comprehensive service, lubrication and regulation...no, not effective.
*"watch cleaning"*...in our lexicon; most definitely not.

If you wish to disseminate this kind of information, please add a disclaimer advising that saving extra $ may be required to have the watch correctly serviced...including damage caused to the dial/hands due to the inadvertant soaking in naptha.

Oh, you can disregard all of the above...many here will support that I'm no expert...
Best regards, BG

PS: to emso: this is the reason you are the only one permitted to guard the Bergeon Crystal Ball...there is only one and the distribution is based on need :-d (okay, just kidding...I don't wish to be R&C).


----------



## Buzz224

I've heard of this for Timex pin lever movements in the 1960s, not so much since. From what I've read here there is no good substitute for a tear down clean and lube.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Hodmandod

Thanks for your comments - and I was expecting responses along this line and hence my introductionary rider!

I agree it's not a procedure to replace a service if you have the skills to do it yourself or the money to have someone else do it for you.

But ..... if you have an old or cheap watch that's not worth much and you certainly can't justify the expense of having it professionally serviced ... then this will probably do the job. In fact it has done the job in my personal experience. The alternative for us with limited funds may be to just dump it in a drawer.

If the consensus of opinion is in the vein of your response then that's fine with me. I was only asking for others views.

Thanks


----------



## constellation90

This technically does work but it requires a certain lighter fluid that contains "Naphtha". When I first wanted to learn watch repair I would use this method on timex's, as the naphtha would loosen up/break free the old oil that had turned into shellac(the watch would usually run after this). But Id then peg the holes etc, to make sure I had gotten all the old oil out before before re-oiling.. (i used to try to make my own oil too DERP ) 
But what your doing is just a band aid on the situation, your loosening up/removing the old oil but not replacing it with new oil. Kinda like the old Sawdust in the transmission trick mechanics used to do. Eventually the watch grinds to an abrupt halt and needs new parts.


----------



## Hodmandod

I'm glad I'm not the only one to have heard about this - and appreciate that it could end up leaving the movement "dry".

Do you think there's any mileage to my theory that Naptha carries the oils its distilled from into the mechanism? I only ask as my 50 yo Edox is still running spot on and has never been serviced and has been subjected to my "snake oil" tactic these times during that time.

Regards


----------



## Buzz224

Naphtha is basically white gasoline and evaporates totally clean. Theoretically you could clean in naphtha, shake out and dry and then apply WD-40 which leaves a very thin film of light lube once the carrier evaporates. Ultrasonic cleaning in anything flammable creates a fire hazard btw, and naphtha like gasoline readily dissolves polystyrene plastics tho its safer than alcohol on most other substances.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Hodmandod

I was always of the view that even though it may be hard for a person to detect, lighter fluid does actually leave a very slight lubricating residue - as opined by many camera repairers, gun owners and typewriter repair "boffins" - but I am willing to stand corrected. ;-)


----------



## Buzz224

Not in my experience, I use it as a de oiler/ degreaser solvent for that reason.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Habitant

At this point, the casual repairer should sit back, light a cigarette and wait for nature to speed things along.



Roland Ranfft said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Why not leaving the watch on the whrist? Few minutes daily driving with open fuel tank should keep the watch clean and well lubricated.
> 
> Regards, Roland Ranfft


----------



## GeneJockey

Hodmandod said:


> I was always of the view that even though it may be hard for a person to detect, lighter fluid does actually leave a very slight lubricating residue - as opined by many camera repairers, gun owners and typewriter repair "boffins" - but I am willing to stand corrected. ;-)


I suspect it's not any kind of lubricating residue, but rather that a well made machined has low friction to begin with, so it will work without lubrication.

FOR A WHILE. Then it will stop working, and it will be much worse off than if you'd just done it right the first time.


----------



## Samantha

I would think that if this was a viable method, all the watch repair businesses would be utilizing it, as it would cut down on manpower costs and not require trained watchmakers. I have never heard of it, nor would I recommend it for any watch - just my opinion. 
Samantha


----------



## Buzz224

They've tried something similar with a formulated mix of solvent and lube which doesn't work nearly as well as does a full teardown clean and lube. 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## GeneJockey

The title of this thread reminds me of all those clickbait ads - "Try this one weird old trick to lose weight!", "This weird old trick leaves wives speechless!", "Doctors hate this weird old trick!"

It is an old trick, used by unscrupulous purveyors of vintage watches, to get them running for sale.


----------



## Joe Horner

It's in a similar vein to a certain local clock "repairer" local to here who used to dunk the movement in a bucket of petrol, put it back the case, and charge for his £50-odd "overhaul" - complete with a 3 month guarantee. Those that didn't run for 3 months were declared "worn out" and he'd offer to stick (literally, with a glue gun in some cases!) a quartz movement in for you.

As word's gone round and I've saved a few of his "worn out" failures for people over the past 3 or 4 years, he's gone into the grocery business. I don't buy my bread there.......


----------



## GeneJockey

Joe Horner said:


> It's in a similar vein to a certain local clock "repairer" local to here who used to dunk the movement in a bucket of petrol, put it back the case, and charge for his £50-odd "overhaul" - complete with a 3 month guarantee. Those that didn't run for 3 months were declared "worn out" and he'd offer to stick (literally, with a glue gun in some cases!) a quartz movement in for you.
> 
> As word's gone round and I've saved a few of his "worn out" failures for people over the past 3 or 4 years, he's gone into the grocery business. * I don't buy my bread there.......*


Lord only knows what he dunks THAT in!


----------



## constellation90

Roland Ranfft said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Why not leaving the watch on the whrist? Few minutes daily driving with open fuel tank should keep the watch clean and well lubricated.
> 
> Regards, Roland Ranfft


Funny you should say that.. I read in a watch repair book from the early 20th century about using Gasoline to clean watches. The reason being in one of the main components of Gasoline is Benzine, which works great for cleaning watches (Too bad it rots out everything in your body except your soul lol) It must have been such a common practice that my L & R cleaning machien instruction manual warns against it "Cleaners, such as gasoline, benzine
and benzol will ignite very readily and we strongly urge you not to
endanger you life or your shop by their use."
**before someone thinks it's a good idea to pour gas on their watch, try to remember there is a huge difference between 1910 gas and todays!


----------



## Archer

constellation90 said:


> Funny you should say that.. I read in a watch repair book from the early 20th century about using Gasoline to clean watches. The reason being in one of the main components of Gasoline is Benzine, which works great for cleaning watches (Too bad it rots out everything in your body except your soul lol) It must have been such a common practice that my L & R cleaning machien instruction manual warns against it "Cleaners, such as gasoline, benzine
> and benzol will ignite very readily and we strongly urge you not to
> endanger you life or your shop by their use."
> **before someone thinks it's a good idea to pour gas on their watch, try to remember there is a huge difference between 1910 gas and todays!


One small clarification - Benzine (naptha) is commonly used as a solvent in watchmaking - took this photo at the JLC factory a few years ago - they had these small wash containers all over the plant:



What you are talking about in Benzene - big difference.

Cheers, Al


----------



## GeneJockey

Archer said:


> One small clarification - Benzine (naptha) is commonly used as a solvent in watchmaking - took this photo at the JLC factory a few years ago - they had these small wash containers all over the plant:
> 
> 
> 
> What you are talking about in Benzene - big difference.
> 
> Cheers, Al


"Facilement inflammable" - yeah, no kidding! No wonder they use it in lighters!


----------



## constellation90

Wow I had no idea they still used that stuff. When I first got into watch repair I met an old time Watchmaker named Dave. He had been solely using Benzine since the 1950's and I have to say it gave excellent results! Especially with older and brass movements. Dave warned me himself that I had to be careful with the stuff and wear a respirator, or I could get cancer. (Maybe Dave Wasn't as Old as I thought lol). Now I'm wondering if they have it in any of the L&R products? I've noticed the "Extra Fine Cleaning Solution" to smells awfully familiar to Brasso they must share a common ingredient. 

To bad they don't use naptha in lighter Ronson lighter fluid anymore. I used to use it on my vintage Nitro Lacquer guitars. It heals and removes a the cloudy stains left over from sweat & heat. And it seems like you can't buy just Naptha where I live, perhaps too toxic?


----------



## Hodmandod

constellation90 said:


> To bad they don't use naptha in lighter Ronson lighter fluid anymore. I used to use it on my vintage Nitro Lacquer guitars. It heals and removes a the cloudy stains left over from sweat & heat. And it seems like you can't buy just Naptha where I live, perhaps too toxic?


I think Ronsonol still contains Naptha - "I just checked the bottle of Ronsonol lighter fluid I bought two weeks ago, and it says it contains Light Petroleum Distillate, which is the $10 word for naphtha, or white gas."


----------



## cabfrank

I don't OP, or anyone, is saying it is a substitute for a full teardown, cleaning and service. Besides, there is evidence from experience that it has worked. I wouldn't try it with anything expensive, but it is certainly not the worst idea I've ever heard.


----------



## Joe Horner

The problem is that it leaves them running but dry, and won't remove particles / dust that have got in there. Dry beariings + dust (which tends to have quite a high percentage of quartz in it, wich is sharp and harder than the steel pivots) = wear.

So, when it gets to the point that this treatment _doesn't_ work anymore there's a very good chance that the watch will be completely worn out. Whereas a reasonable quality movement, properly cleaned and oiled every 10 years or so, should essentially last forever.


----------



## Archer

constellation90 said:


> Now I'm wondering if they have it in any of the L&R products? I've noticed the "Extra Fine Cleaning Solution" to smells awfully familiar to Brasso they must share a common ingredient.


L&R Extra Fine is 15-25% "Naptha Light Aliphatic" (CAS 64742-89-8) according to the MSDS.

So if you use it, you are exposed to Naptha every time you use your cleaner.

Cheers, Al


----------



## Ben_hutcherson

I think one of the issues is that there about a half dozen common names for the product that's made of mostly alkanes with anywhere from 5 to 10 carbons. 

Naptha, benzine, petroleum ether, "light petroleum distillates", paint thinner, and a couple of other names I can't think of at the moment all refer to roughly the same product. Kerosene also is roughly this same composition, although tends to not be as pure as any of the above. 

The L&R rinse also contains Stoddard's Solvent, which is more or less the same thing but heavier(more carbons).


----------



## Buzz224

Stoddard's solvent afaik is a principle ingredient of WD-40.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## pithy

*disambiguation*



Archer said:


> L&R Extra Fine is 15-25% "Naptha Light Aliphatic" (CAS 64742-89-8) according to the MSDS. So if you use it, you are exposed to Naptha every time you use your cleaner. Cheers, Al


Thank you for choosing to include the CAS# in your post. In the absence of the Chemical Abstract Services number most references to chemical products are so imprecise as to be virtually meaningless.


----------



## Aku Ankka

*Re: disambiguation*

The most accurate general name for the stuff used in watchmaking is petroleum ether. The problem is that there are many different versions and the same chemical composition can be called various different names depending on manufacturer, boiling temperatures and even CAS numbers etc. To make things even more complicated, the same name can be used for various different chemicals, like naphtha for example.

The nomenclature is confusing, and even many professional watchmakers don't really know what that mysterious 'benzine' actually is. This is why you should always read the MSDS of whatever chemical you decide to buy. That said, the mysterious 'benzine' is not a carcinogen and its main health hazards are skin irritation and in long term exposure it can cause damage to the brain and nervous system, just like pretty much all solvents. I've come across the claim that 'benzine' causes cancer and destroys your reproductive organs. What they've actually been talking about is benzene, which is an all-round nasty chemical and has very little to do with pertoleum ether (benzine).

Here's some fun stuff to read over the holidays:
http://www.acros.com/DesktopModules...pe=CatalogSearch&SearchString=petroleum ether


----------



## pithy

*Re: disambiguation*



Aku Ankka said:


> The most accurate general name for the stuff used in watchmaking is petroleum ether.


Sure.



Aku Ankka said:


> . . . The problem is that there are many different versions and the same chemical composition can be called various different names depending on manufacturer, boiling temperatures and even CAS numbers etc. . . .


"2. What is a CAS Registry Number?

A. CAS Registry Numbers (often referred to as CAS RNs or CAS Numbers) are universally used to provide a unique, unmistakable identifier for chemical substances. A CAS Registry Number itself has no inherent chemical significance but provides an unambiguous way to identify a chemical substance or molecular structure when there are many possible systematic, generic, proprietary or trivial names.", Amercian Chemical Society


----------



## Aku Ankka

*Re: disambiguation*

Yes, I know what CAS is. If you checked the link, there are a few CAS numbers for stuff that is called petroleum ether, and I just wanted to point that out. Also, as far as I know CAS is an American registry system, which may or may not be applicable for other countries. For example, the stuff I use as 'benzine' has no CAS number on the data sheet, but just a REACH number 01-2119475515-33. Obviously the stuff does have a CAS number, but apparently it is not required on the datasheet. One more thing to confuse people.


----------



## pithy

*Re: disambiguation*



Aku Ankka said:


> . . . The problem is that there are many different versions and the same chemical composition can be called various different names depending on manufacturer, boiling temperatures and even CAS numbers etc. . . .





Aku Ankka said:


> Yes, I know what CAS is. . . . .


There is one and only one CAS# for each chemical substance or molecular structure.


----------



## Aku Ankka

*Re: disambiguation*

If I have given out false information, please do correct me. I like to learn more than I like to teach. English is not my first language, so maybe I have phrased something in a way that implies there are several CAS numbers for the same chemical. This was not my intention. I just pointed out that there are a few different CAS numbered chemicals that are called petroleum ether, and this can be confusing.

Anyway, I've said what I have to say. Thanks.


----------



## Joe Horner

*Re: disambiguation*

Seems to me that you were both saying much the same thing, but from different sides of the "equation".

There is only one CAS number for a given, and specific, mixture of hydrocarbons.

BUT, for non-specific terms like naphtha, benzine, light distillate and so on, there can be a large number of different CAS numbers for the same "name".

So, for example, the naphtha in L&R ultrasonic solution may well be a different chemical (or mix of chemicals) than the naptha in Ronsonol ligter fluid. Each of those "napthas" will ave their own, distinct, CAS number and that CAS number is the only reliable way (short of analysing them yourself) to see if they're the same.

eta: I suspect that the "naptha" used of old in watchmaking was a pretty non-speific distillate of whatever light fractions happened to be in a given batch, in which case the exact composition wouldn't matter for those who wish to use it today, but I could of course be wrong about that!


----------



## pithy

*Re: disambiguation*



Joe Horner said:


> Seems to me that you were both saying much the same thing, but from different sides of the "equation". . .


Maybe now, but not originally.

The "same chemical composition" can't "be called various different names depending on . . . . .even CAS numbers . . ." because there is one and only one CAS number for each chemical substance or molecular structure.

The one exception to this would be in the use of the term "chemical composition" when using it in the context of an isomer where there could be multiple possible molecular structures but AA has previously indicated in his last post that this was not the case.


----------



## Joe Horner

*Re: disambiguation*

I took the original confusion to be a language issue rather than technical one.

Then again, please don't ask me to try and explain anything more complex than "2 beers please" in anything bu English


----------



## Archer

*Re: disambiguation*



Aku Ankka said:


> Also, as far as I know CAS is an American registry system, which may or may not be applicable for other countries.


The CAS numbers are used worldwide, not just in the US.

Cheers, Al


----------



## Le Temps Détruit Tout

I am so glad that I found this post. 
I have multiple Timex and Bradley Swiss watches(all manual wind) those wind up fully but will start running if I bang or stops if I don't wear them. 
From Home Depot(hardware store) I purchased Kingsford light fluid for BBQ. I put lighter fluid in PET bottle cap and set watch on it over night or until they unwind fully. They all run fine after this method!
Thank you!


----------



## azkid

Buzz224 said:


> I've heard of this for Timex pin lever movements in the 1960s, not so much since. From what I've read here there is no good substitute for a tear down clean and lube.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


An interesting side note, if not mentioned by others, my Timex service manuals from the early 70s (for e.g. M24) specify dunking the assembled movement in solvent for cleaning. (The process makes for more affordable servicing for a low cost watch).

The manual also specifies oiling.

Sent from my Timex Sinclair 1000 using Tapatalk


----------



## maillchort

azkid said:


> An interesting side note, if not mentioned by others, my Timex service manuals from the early 70s (for e.g. M24) specify dunking the assembled movement in solvent for cleaning. (The process makes for more affordable servicing for a low cost watch).
> 
> The manual also specifies oiling.
> 
> Sent from my Timex Sinclair 1000 using Tapatalk


Which solvent? There were some serious ones available then that very well could have been effective enough to get a basic watch like a pin lever Timex "clean". Probably equally effective at destroying your health!


----------



## KosmoCramer

younggilee said:


> I am so glad that I found this post.
> I have multiple Timex and Bradley Swiss watches(all manual wind) those wind up fully but will start running if I bang or stops if I don't wear them.
> From Home Depot(hardware store) I purchased Kingsford light fluid for BBQ. I put lighter fluid in PET bottle cap and set watch on it over night or until they unwind fully. They all run fine after this method!
> Thank you!
> View attachment 12730659
> View attachment 12730661
> View attachment 12730663


Just came across this post ... did you do anything to lubricate / oil the watch afterwards? I'm about to start a first time restoration project on a cheap vintage mechanical to test out some techniques

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nnt

I agree that lighter fluid leaves a very slight film. I refill my Zippo lighter using Zippo fluid about every other day and can feel the lube on the body of the insert when refilling.

I'd say good for corrosion resistance but not for long term wear resistance of parts in a watch.


----------



## thetrenchdude

KosmoCramer said:


> Just came across this post ... did you do anything to lubricate / oil the watch afterwards? I'm about to start a first time restoration project on a cheap vintage mechanical to test out some techniques
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I don't recommend this. If you disassemble movement then use lighter fluid that's okay because you will HAVE to oil movement since lighter fluid will remove all oils.


----------



## demo

I really wish this thread would die. If not, at least go away, since it has nothing to do with watchmaking. This could be talked about somewhere else.

One aspect of watchmaking involves disassembling, cleaning, reassembling, and oiling, according to manufacturers specifications. If there are none, general best practices would apply. This isn't one of them.

This technique is more like sticking a penny in a fuse box for lack of a fuse. It's an immediate solution to the problem but doesn't do anyone any favors. If you're just trying to make a watch run that's not watchmaking.

I'm here to learn about proper watchmaking techniques. I'd hate to think someone else like me would read this and think this is an acceptable method of servicing a watch. Please heed the many previous posts here detailing why it isn't.

<getting off my soapbox>

Mike


----------



## cabfrank

Not a soapbox, but a fair enough perspective. Seriously, would anyone actually consider this with anything but a cheap and easily replaceable movement?


----------



## Vicc

cabfrank said:


> Not a soapbox, but a fair enough perspective. Seriously, would anyone actually consider this with anything but a cheap and easily replaceable movement?


No doubt some shoemaker is using this "technique" to service Rolex watches at "affordable prices".


----------



## cabfrank

Right? However I might take that chance instead of the $1100 service a friend of mine just paid for.😛


----------



## cabfrank

Nevermind, off topic, edited.


----------



## wpoll

Hodmandod said:


> I have thought long and hard before posting this as I realise it may create a little discussion - possibly not all supportive. I would however like to hear the "experts" feedback.
> 
> First of all let me put some context -
> 
> 1. I am not a watch repairer
> 2. I wouldn't suggest this for an expensive, valued or luxury watch
> 3. I have used this several times over many years on my Edox from the late 1960's; and several "beaters" with no apparent ill effect
> 4. I was shown this "trick" by my father 50 years ago
> 
> The issue
> An old watch isn't keeping good time and can't be adjusted simply using the hairspring adjustment - suggesting it needs a clean.
> 
> The method
> Take the strap off the watch.
> Make sure the watch is wound.
> Remove the back.
> In an old but clean white saucer place a small pool of lighter fluid in the cup indentation.
> Straddle the watch over the pool of fluid and leave overnight.
> 
> The result
> More often than not the remaining lighter fluid will have a significant deposit of muck, grit and grime in it and the watch will be ticking over regularly and smoothly!
> 
> Why I think it works (my guess work here)
> Obviously the volatiles in the lighter fluid permeate the inner workings of the movement and all the crud and accumulations of the years simply drop out of the watch. At the same time there are enough residual oils in the fluid (it is manufactured from various oils) to leave a fine coating on the moving parts AND "reactivate" any remaining oil sitting in jewel wells etc.
> 
> Has anyone else heard of or makes use of this technique?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing back - I think. ;-)


Hello 
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but let me start by saying that while I believe there is a 'proper' way to clean a movement, the Swiss oligarchs that inspired such secrecy to the watch industry (just look at all the code names and jibberish associated with watchmaking terms) was the reason for their own demise. They never counted on the Asians (Japanese 40 years ago and Chinese now) on entering the market with far better design than the Swiss could ever deliver or even imagine. That said, it's no wonder why people like you and I attempt ro find ways to save a decent watch. What's the alternative?? Send a $100 piece to some ripoff artist watchmaker for a $40 cleaning only to be told your otherwise good running watch needs another $250 in parts just because? And how do you know this is fact?? So you decline the service and your piece is returned, only now it's not running....And you're left with a broken watch that was running when you sent it in. Believe me, this has happened to me several times with several different watchmakers!! So I learned how to repair watches on my own, and this is what I've learned: If you don't want to learn how to remove a dial, you can actually place the movement in a saucer just below the backside of the dial soaked in Naptha. after a day, you will see the grime and dirt at the bottom of the saucer that was once in your watch. I then soak the same movement in acetone in the exact same fashion. Acetone is a cleaner, but it has a very small amount of solvent oils in it, enough to coat the movement so that it is not entirely dry. I have cleaned numerous ETA autos, hand winds, Miyota, and others in this fashion with almost no adverse effects. I should note that I remove the hands and dials first! I started doing this to old movements that were DOA, and I had little to lose. To my surprise I found that when done correctly it worked. Ive saved many many dead movements by soaking in fluid with a follow up bath in acetone. Of course I've lost some on the way, but they were dead already, and not worth the salvage. That said, I do still send my valuable watches to a reputable firm for a traditional cleaning, but when I buy a clunker I like, I'll remove the movement from the case, remove hands and dial, and give the movement a little bath in the two solvents. More that often, it's worked. So at the chance of pi_ _ing off some of the elitists here (just kidding, I love you all), give it a try... with a clunker what have you got to lose?? Especially if the watch isn't worth what it costs for a real cleaning!!


----------



## cabfrank

Wouldn't it then require more lubrication that just whatever is in the acetone? I have no idea, just wondering.


----------



## LCheapo

Pretty funny that this thread is still (or again) active. My completely unqualified thought is that if you are stranded on an island, this might be an ok method. Assuming a barrel of gasoline got stranded with you.

But I also think if you are stranded on an island you have more urgent things to worry about, and technological challenges to master, than watch repair.

I like the part in the original post about removing the watch strap first. At least you'll be left with a working watch strap. Unless you use the amazing trick of removing it with scissors.


----------



## Mr Dennis

Watch movements are NOT farm equipment!


----------



## 1afc

Mr Dennis said:


> Watch movements are NOT farm equipment!


Not to be taken out of context here, but in actual fact watch mechanisms are in some ways more "agricultural" than farm equipment.

In particular the running fits are significantly looser and the gear profiles are far more rudimentary.
However, it's horses for courses as the fits and gear profiles work well enough because there is significantly less power in the system.

I see this thread has been going for a while now but no one has mentioned the effect of naptha on dials and hands. 
Many watch dials have fragile coatings (reference all the threads on what to do with a degraded dial) so I would expect the suggestion is that if you HAVE to clean a watch this way, at least remove the dial (which will also remove the hands).

But then again, people that want to use this method may not be able to safely do so.


----------



## Alan in Manhattan

Hodmandod said:


> I have thought long and hard before posting this as I realise it may create a little discussion - possibly not all supportive. I would however like to hear the "experts" feedback.
> 
> First of all let me put some context -
> 
> 1. I am not a watch repairer
> 2. I wouldn't suggest this for an expensive, valued or luxury watch
> 3. I have used this several times over many years on my Edox from the late 1960's; and several "beaters" with no apparent ill effect
> 4. I was shown this "trick" by my father 50 years ago
> 
> The issue
> An old watch isn't keeping good time and can't be adjusted simply using the hairspring adjustment - suggesting it needs a clean.
> 
> The method
> Take the strap off the watch.
> Make sure the watch is wound.
> Remove the back.
> In an old but clean white saucer place a small pool of lighter fluid in the cup indentation.
> Straddle the watch over the pool of fluid and leave overnight.
> 
> The result
> More often than not the remaining lighter fluid will have a significant deposit of muck, grit and grime in it and the watch will be ticking over regularly and smoothly!
> 
> Why I think it works (my guess work here)
> Obviously the volatiles in the lighter fluid permeate the inner workings of the movement and all the crud and accumulations of the years simply drop out of the watch. At the same time there are enough residual oils in the fluid (it is manufactured from various oils) to leave a fine coating on the moving parts AND "reactivate" any remaining oil sitting in jewel wells etc.
> 
> Has anyone else heard of or makes use of this technique?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing back - I think. ;-)


This is actually worked! I bought a WestClox Scotty on Etsy and it wasn't running, seemed to be jammed. I even brought it to a watch repair place and they said there was nothing they could do (I guess the bolted backplate was not conducive to a repair). But I read your advice, also saw a demo on YouTube. The watch is still working fine after about a month.

Thanks,

Alan


----------



## Potastew

Alan in Manhattan said:


> This is actually worked! I bought a WestClox Scotty on Etsy and it wasn't running, seemed to be jammed. I even brought it to a watch repair place and they said there was nothing they could do (I guess the bolted backplate was not conducive to a repair). But I read your advice, also saw a demo on YouTube. The watch is still working fine after about a month.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alan


Thanks for your info Alan. I agree that a watch with any kind of value should be taken down, cleaned, and lubricated however with watches that may not be worth the effort or with a Timex that was meant to be tossed and replaced, I like the dip and swish method. I've only done this once and an old Timex that had been stuck for years immediately started running. I was more than thrilled but in a weeks time it stopped again. My guess is it needs some oil which is how i found this post. So many oils and not enough suggestions for the old (60's & 70's) Timex.


----------



## electric_cowboy

Interesting read. Not sure if I would do this method myself, but maybe on a cheap piece not worth paying for a service just to keep it going for a while.


----------



## darrencampbell1122

Hodmandod said:


> I have thought long and hard before posting this as I realise it may create a little discussion - possibly not all supportive. I would however like to hear the "experts" feedback.
> 
> First of all let me put some context -
> 
> 1. I am not a watch repairer
> 2. I wouldn't suggest this for an expensive, valued or luxury watch
> 3. I have used this several times over many years on my Edox from the late 1960's; and several "beaters" with no apparent ill effect
> 4. I was shown this "trick" by my father 50 years ago
> 
> The issue
> An old watch isn't keeping good time and can't be adjusted simply using the hairspring adjustment - suggesting it needs a clean.
> 
> The method
> Take the strap off the watch.
> Make sure the watch is wound.
> Remove the back.
> In an old but clean white saucer place a small pool of lighter fluid in the cup indentation.
> Straddle the watch over the pool of fluid and leave overnight.
> 
> The result
> More often than not the remaining lighter fluid will have a significant deposit of muck, grit and grime in it and the watch will be ticking over regularly and smoothly!
> 
> Why I think it works (my guess work here)
> Obviously the volatiles in the lighter fluid permeate the inner workings of the movement and all the crud and accumulations of the years simply drop out of the watch. At the same time there are enough residual oils in the fluid (it is manufactured from various oils) to leave a fine coating on the moving parts AND "reactivate" any remaining oil sitting in jewel wells etc.
> 
> Has anyone else heard of or makes use of this technique?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing back - I think. ;-)


Yes Iv accualy done this a few times. I'll tell you another trick. If you have a watch that's just absolutely filthy inside and out you can do this without tearing it all the way down. Remove the back and spry it full of starter fluid. Either. I swear it works like a charm.


----------



## darrencampbell1122

_I_


constellation90 said:


> This technically does work but it requires a certain lighter fluid that contains "Naphtha". When I first wanted to learn watch repair I would use this method on timex's, as the naphtha would loosen up/break free the old oil that had turned into shellac(the watch would usually run after this). But Id then peg the holes etc, to make sure I had gotten all the old oil out before before re-oiling.. (i used to try to make my own oil too DERP )
> But what your doing is just a band aid on the situation, your loosening up/removing the old oil but not replacing it with new oil. Kinda like the old Sawdust in the transmission trick mechanics used to do. Eventually the watch grinds to an abrupt halt and needs new parts.


 Can't speak for everyone but I have come to despise a vintage Timex. I can't work on em. Can anyone???


----------



## darrencampbell1122

demo said:


> I really wish this thread would die. If not, at least go away, since it has nothing to do with watchmaking. This could be talked about somewhere else.
> 
> One aspect of watchmaking involves disassembling, cleaning, reassembling, and oiling, according to manufacturers specifications. If there are none, general best practices would apply. This isn't one of them.
> 
> This technique is more like sticking a penny in a fuse box for lack of a fuse. It's an immediate solution to the problem but doesn't do anyone any favors. If you're just trying to make a watch run that's not watchmaking.
> 
> I'm here to learn about proper watchmaking techniques. I'd hate to think someone else like me would read this and think this is an acceptable method of servicing a watch. Please heed the many previous posts here detailing why it isn't.
> 
> <getting off my soapbox>
> 
> Mike


I can agree with that. I'm trying to learn how to do things the right way also


----------



## darrencampbell1122

cabfrank said:


> Not a soapbox, but a fair enough perspective. Seriously, would anyone actually consider this with anything but a cheap and easily replaceable movement?


No I would not


----------



## mediasapiens

I just fill my watch with synthetic motor oil and seal it shut. It quiets down the rotor.


----------



## 979greenwich

By the way, how would the dirt and grime escape the mainspring barrel and cap jewels in this method?


----------



## maillchort

979greenwich said:


> By the way, how would the dirt and grime escape the mainspring barrel and cap jewels in this method?


It doesn't.


----------

