# Fixing the Doxa 300T bracelet problem .



## Amarriednerd (Jun 15, 2019)

Fixing the Doxa 300T bracelet problem.

So in purchasing the Doxa 300t I was aware of the issue the some seem to have with the bracelet where it endlinks don't articulate as much as we would like. When bending they would hit against the endlinks and case of the watch. The weird way this will cause the bracelet to drape on the wrist causes the first flaired link to kink out in an awkward angle. 
This trigger my watch OCD like nothing I have experienced before.

So it was to the internet to find a solution. I have heard rumblings and rumors of this mysterious bracelet mod that could be done but hadn't seen any of it posted anywhere or any instructions on how or what exactly needed to be done.

After posting a message on the Doxa sub forum looking for extra bracelet options since I was fed up with my bracelet I was messaged by a user (MadsNilsson) who had actually done this and he sent me pictures. So now I knew it could be done without rendering the bracelet to my $1900 watch useless.

I gingerly went at one of the beads with file and soon realized it was going to take forever. So I broke out the Dremel. This is where things went real fast. I ground the three beads on one end and then tested the fit and sure enough it worked like a charm. It took me all of 10 minutes of grinding and test fitting before I had them just right. I couldn't be happier with how well it went.

This did also help remedy another issue I had where it fit just a little more snug than I like. I know it has a ratcheting extension but I don't like rocking my watches with the extention out all the time. Filing the end beads allowed just the slightest amount of extra length in the bracelet that I no longer fit so snug.

All in all I am very satisfied with how this turned out. If you have the same issue with yours I highly recommend this.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope it helps someone in the future.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

I’m happy that it worked out and that you now have the watch you want. 
I can’t for the life of me imagine why they designed it the way they did. 


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## Amarriednerd (Jun 15, 2019)

MadsNilsson said:


> I'm happy that it worked out and that you now have the watch you want.
> I can't for the life of me imagine why they designed it the way they did.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks again for messaging me and also for being brave enough to do it first, lol. I am very happy with it now.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

MadsNilsson said:


> I can't for the life of me imagine why they designed it the way they did.


I was told by a UK based AD that it was 2 reasons...

They received complaints about the 1200T's bracelet causing scratches on the caseback as those endlink beads of rice could articulate in such a way to rub against it while the watch was off the wrist.

Second, to help it sit more comfortably on the wrist, which in fairness, it kind of does, but only if you have larger wrists.

All in all, they should have left it the way it was, with fully articulated links. Nobody minds a few scratches on a Doxa, and as for sitting more comfortably, well that one is subjective, and for some folks, the change has the complete opposite effect.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I guess that's why they extended the length of the end pieces which made them stick out beyond the case. That was an aesthetic disaster in my opinion. Should have left everything as it was. As the American expression goes...if it ain't broke, don't fix it



Anders_Flint said:


> I was told by a UK based AD that it was 2 reasons...
> 
> They received complaints about the 1200T's bracelet causing scratches on the caseback as those endlink beads of rice could articulate in such a way to rub against it while the watch was off the wrist.
> 
> ...


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

That sort of makes sense. It’s a pity they fixed a non-issue and made a new one. 


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Amarriednerd said:


> Thanks again for messaging me and also for being brave enough to do it first, lol. I am very happy with it now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Always happy to help, and since I found the modification really beneficial even more so.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## foreigner (Mar 27, 2018)

Anders_Flint said:


> I was told by a UK based AD that it was 2 reasons...
> 
> They received complaints about the 1200T's bracelet causing scratches on the caseback as those endlink beads of rice could articulate in such a way to rub against it while the watch was off the wrist.
> 
> ...


Was this AMJ by any chance?

The end link on my 1500t doesn't articulate properly on one end of the bracelet, but the other side - the other end of the bracelet - articulates fully. It absolutely drives me mad and I tried to return the watch because of it, until Doxa themselves apparently confirmed it was designed this way. It kind of spoils the watch a bit for me which is such a shame. I love it otherwise.

It's interesting to see there's a similar issue on the beads of rice bracelet.


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## TJ19 (Dec 6, 2020)

Thanks for posting this. It’s too bad Doxa didn’t leave well enough alone.


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## Dave T (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks so much for posting this! 

My 300T arrived today and I immediately saw the issue with the flared out end links. Grabbed my Dremel and now the problem is solved, and besides sitting better on my wrist the slight increase in bracelet length made a big difference.

Very happy with how it came out, thanks again!


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## Sampo2 (Jun 11, 2021)

Thanks a ton for this. The only reason that´s been keeping me from getting a new 300T is precisely the non-articulate endlinks. The protruding endpieces are bad enough already but I could put up with them. Those ugly endlinks though? No way. However this actually solves the problem.

Now, I don´t own a Dremel or have ever used one. How easy or difficult is grinding down the endlinks? Do you just take the tool and grind the beads directly? Would you say the risk of ruining the strap is high or low?
Thanks in advance!


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

Sampo2 said:


> Thanks a ton for this. The only reason that´s been keeping me from getting a new 300T is precisely the non-articulate endlinks. The protruding endpieces are bad enough already but I could put up with them. Those ugly endlinks though? No way. However this actually solves the problem.
> 
> Now, I don´t own a Dremel or have ever used one. How easy or difficult is grinding down the endlinks? Do you just take the tool and grind the beads directly? Would you say the risk of ruining the strap is high or low?
> Thanks in advance!


I actually started this process yesterday. I got a lot of great advice from the user MadsNilsson. You do NOT need to use a grinding wheel on the Dremel, the sanding drum is more than adequate. In fact, I mounted the sandpaper to an old paint stick or emery board and sanded them by hand with great results.

Sanding takes a bit longer but is much more controllable and you can take it slow. I have rounded the edges nicely on my bracelet and I have much better articulation than I had before. The key is to work them a bit and then continue test fitting the bracelet until you get the amount of articulation that you desire. My bracelet still does not flow down the sides of the case like a 1200T (yet) but I have significantly increased the articulation to the point that the problem is solved for my just shy of 7" wrist. I will be posting some pics by the end of the week, but I am very happy with the results.


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## Sampo2 (Jun 11, 2021)

SaddleSC said:


> I actually started this process yesterday. I got a lot of great advice from the user MadsNilsson. You do NOT need to use a grinding wheel on the Dremel, the sanding drum is more than adequate. In fact, I mounted the sandpaper to an old paint stick or emery board and sanded them by hand with great results.
> 
> Sanding takes a bit longer but is much more controllable and you can take it slow. I have rounded the edges nicely on my bracelet and I have much better articulation than I had before. The key is to work them a bit and then continue test fitting the bracelet until you get the amount of articulation that you desire. My bracelet still does not flow down the sides of the case like a 1200T (yet) but I have significantly increased the articulation to the point that the problem is solved for my just shy of 7" wrist. I will be posting some pics by the end of the week, but I am very happy with the results.


Yes, sanding sounds a lot safer actually, I´d rather work slowly and check every now and then, than running the risk of ruining the strap with a grinding wheel. 
Pictures would be very helpful, I´m curious to see the end result and what you actually used for sanding, thanks in advance!


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

Sampo2 said:


> Yes, sanding sounds a lot safer actually, I´d rather work slowly and check every now and then, than running the risk of ruining the strap with a grinding wheel.
> Pictures would be very helpful, I´m curious to see the end result and what you actually used for sanding, thanks in advance!


Here are a couple of quick pics I took yesterday. I taped the bracelet using painter's tape (to avoid scratches) and used a drill bit to hold the links even with one another. I then mounted strips of sandpaper to the Emory board and later a paint stirrer and used that to slowly remove material until I had the desired amount of articulation.

It is important to remember that this is not an all-or-nothing process. Yes...you can keep working them to get the bracelet to drape like the 1200T but you can also shave off varying degrees of material to free up the link as much or as little as you need. I actually think slightly more rigid end links on the 300T help to support the heavier head of the watch (as compared to the lighter 300) so I did not want full articuation. I just needed more than the factory default. You can see the amount of material removed in the pic). I will be posting a tutorial with side-by-side pics of before and after soon!


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

SaddleSC said:


> Here are a couple of quick pics I took yesterday. I taped the bracelet using painter's tape (to avoid scratches) and used a drill bit to hold the links even with one another. I then mounted strips of sandpaper to the Emory board and later a paint stirrer and used that to slowly remove material until I had the desired amount of articulation.
> 
> It is important to remember that this is not an all-or-nothing process. Yes...you can keep working them to get the bracelet to drape like the 1200T but you can also shave off varying degrees of material to free up the link as much or as little as you need. I actually think slightly more rigid end links on the 300T help to support the heavier head of the watch (as compared to the lighter 300) so I did not want full articuation. I just needed more than the factory default. You can see the amount of material removed in the pic). I will be posting a tutorial with side-by-side pics of before and after soon!


I'm happy to see that it turned out well. Good job!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

MadsNilsson said:


> I'm happy to see that it turned out well. Good job!


I wouldn't have attempted it without all your great advice...thanks again, my friend!


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

I have done this mod too a few weeks back. I didnt get the dremel out just some small files and a nail file. I've only taken a little off but I can see a difference. I may do a little more sometime.


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

daglesj said:


> I have done this mod too a few weeks back. I didnt get the dremel out just some small files and a nail file. I've only taken a little off but I can see a difference. I may do a little more sometime.


Exactly! I think that is what got me off the fence and finally got me to take action. It is not all-or-nothing. After only working the ends for 8-10 minutes, I had gained the amount of articulation necessary to dramatically improve the look and feel. Good enough for me!


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## Sampo2 (Jun 11, 2021)

SaddleSC said:


> Here are a couple of quick pics I took yesterday. I taped the bracelet using painter's tape (to avoid scratches) and used a drill bit to hold the links even with one another. I then mounted strips of sandpaper to the Emory board and later a paint stirrer and used that to slowly remove material until I had the desired amount of articulation.
> 
> It is important to remember that this is not an all-or-nothing process. Yes...you can keep working them to get the bracelet to drape like the 1200T but you can also shave off varying degrees of material to free up the link as much or as little as you need. I actually think slightly more rigid end links on the 300T help to support the heavier head of the watch (as compared to the lighter 300) so I did not want full articuation. I just needed more than the factory default. You can see the amount of material removed in the pic). I will be posting a tutorial with side-by-side pics of before and after soon!


Very helpful, much appreciated


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

On one hand, I applaud all you "MacGyver's"! 

But on the other, should this be necessary... on a brand new, $2,000 (close enough) watch? 

Watches, especially mechanical ones, are supposed to be works of precision, mechanical art. Each one hand assembled and tinkered with by a watchmaker, giving each one it's own unique personality. 

The bracelet or strap is part of that. Shouldn't it be at least equally well engineered, even if made "on the cheap"? The 300T's end links seem like a big "swing and a miss".

Having a 1200T, I can attest, as others have, that the bracelet itself is excellent. Just a "cheap" clasp perhaps, but not uncommon for watches in this price point. The bracelet over delivers. 

The 300 has the same style flared bracelet, but with the same articulation of the 1200T. So we know Doxa can design one without this issue. Heck, all they already HAD the 1200's ... "if it ain't broke....".


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

nepatriot said:


> On one hand, I applaud all you "MacGyver's"!
> 
> But on the other, should this be necessary... on a brand new, $2,000 (close enough) watch?
> 
> ...


You are absolutely preaching to choir here. Doxa already had a perfect end link design with full articulation on the 1200T which uses the exact same case as the modern 300T. I will never, in a million years, understand what they were thinking when they decided to make the end links on the 300T rigid and significantly increase the lug-to-lug width. It boggles the mind how poor the design of the 300T end links are.

I also agree that it shouldn't be necessary on a $2K watch, which is why I am running one of my 300T on Shark Mesh (which I LOVE BTW because it shaves 32 grams from the total weight of the watch) but at some point, I just decided that the end link design is a deal-breaker on a watch that I love. So, if I wanted the OEM look, I was left with two choices. Sell off my 300Ts or take matters into my own hands and reprofile the links. It should not be required, but at the same time, it worked, so I am happy that I had the guts to attempt it!

The 300 is still the best modern Doxa IMO because of the lower center of gravity, awesome domed crystal, and properly articulated bracelet.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

SaddleSC said:


> The 300 is still the best modern Doxa IMO because of the lower center of gravity, awesome domed crystal, and properly articulated bracelet.


I dont get the love for the 300. I think it looks really crap with that domed crystal. Just has next to zero appeal to me cos of that.


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

daglesj said:


> I dont get the love for the 300. I think it looks really crap with that domed crystal. Just has next to zero appeal to me cos of that.


Well, I guess different things appeal to different people. Many of the watches in my collection have domed crystals and it is one of my favorite characteristics. I consider the 300 to be nearly a perfect watch both in comfort and in execution as a shot for shot re-issue of a vintage icon. Probably why I own four of them.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

SaddleSC said:


> Well, I guess different things appeal to different people. Many of the watches in my collection have domed crystals and it is one of my favorite characteristics. I consider the 300 to be nearly a perfect watch both in comfort and in execution as a shot for shot re-issue of a vintage icon. Probably why I own four of them.


Oh indeed one mans this is another mans that. If we all liked the same it would be very boring. We'd all be wearing Speedmaster Pros or Submariners. 😄 I looked thorough all the Doxa and the only one that rated lower than the 300 to me was the 'plastic cup' carbon version. Just not into visual distortion I guess.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

daglesj said:


> I dont get the love for the 300. I think it looks really crap with that domed crystal. Just has next to zero appeal to me cos of that.


I thought so to. Firmly committed to your sentiment above. For years. Even bought two 1200's.

Then, a few weeks ago, for what ever reason (maybe SaddleSC and Sc0ttg's shameless enablement...), I bought one, just to see how ugly and odd looking it was in person.

Now I have 3.

And my last 1200T is for sale on the sales forum here, in case you want one. Beautiful watch, mint condition. Comes with the tube in the pic below, not the Big Mac box with the fish on the cover.










PROPER articulation ... and look, no orange paint in the fish!!










And no Filet-O-Fish box! Hold the pickles hold the mayo ...










Your mileage may vary


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

I have to say the painted crown doesn't bother me. I dont really see it.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

daglesj said:


> I have to say the painted crown doesn't bother me. I dont really see it.


It's orange ... BRIGHT orange at that... BUT I only can see it when I take it off, so not a big deal. And if all these guys can MacGyver their 300T end links like Matt Damon in The Martian, maybe I can try the wife's nail polish remover in the crown ...


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

daglesj said:


> Oh indeed one mans this is another mans that. If we all liked the same it would be very boring. We'd all be wearing Speedmaster Pros or Submariners. 😄 I looked thorough all the Doxa and the only one that rated lower than the 300 to me was the 'plastic cup' carbon version. Just not into visual distortion I guess.


But it goes so well with the Big Mac container... THAT makes perfect sense to me.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

SaddleSC said:


> You are absolutely preaching to choir here. Doxa already had a perfect end link design with full articulation on the 1200T which uses the exact same case as the modern 300T. I will never, in a million years, understand what they were thinking when they decided to make the end links on the 300T rigid and significantly increase the lug-to-lug width. It boggles the mind how poor the design of the 300T end links are.
> 
> I also agree that it shouldn't be necessary on a $2K watch, which is why I am running one of my 300T on Shark Mesh (which I LOVE BTW because it shaves 32 grams from the total weight of the watch) but at some point, I just decided that the end link design is a deal-breaker on a watch that I love. So, if I wanted the OEM look, I was left with two choices. Sell off my 300Ts or take matters into my own hands and reprofile the links. It should not be required, but at the same time, it worked, so I am happy that I had the guts to attempt it!
> 
> The 300 is still the best modern Doxa IMO because of the lower center of gravity, awesome domed crystal, and properly articulated bracelet.


Haven't seen #4 on these forums yet...


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

nepatriot said:


> Haven't seen #4 on these forums yet...


Haha...I am trying to take some pictures that do the grail 300 even the slightest bit of justice. I have also been procrastinating sizing the bracelet and doing a proper photoshoot by dremeling away my 300T end links! I promise pics are incoming shortly!


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

I may be the only one here that thinks the fixed endlinks were an improvement, I mean once it's on your wrist it's not at all noticeable, as they align with the curve of the strap around your wrist. When off your wrist, they can't fold back and sratch the caseback like they did on the 1200t (which is what people complained about and why they were fixed in the first place*).

Each to their own I guess, but I've never seen any issue with them.

*_According to the AD I purchased my 300T from._


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

Anders_Flint said:


> I may be the only one here that thinks the fixed endlinks were an improvement, I mean once it's on your wrist it's not at all noticeable, as they align with the curve of the strap around your wrist. When off your wrist, they can't fold back and sratch the caseback like they did on the 1200t (which is what people complained about and why they were fixed in the first place*).
> 
> Each to their own I guess, but I've never seen any issue with them.
> 
> *_According to the AD I purchased my 300T from._


If your wrist is 7" or smaller that is where the problem becomes visible on the wrist. The end links stand out an awkward angle before the bracelet can conform to the wrist. The problem is alleviated for me with the 1200T bracelet and also when I tried the 300 bracelet using the 300T end links. However, the 300 bracelet binds against the case and proved unworkable, but it was much more comfortable because the bracelet drapes naturally around the wrist.

What size is your wrist? I am guessing 7.25" or greater?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Sadly I have to agree with you. I have the 50th USD and the Searamber. My wife blagged them and for once I wasn't upset. The 300 is a fantastic approximation of the vintage one but that domed crystal just shrinks the dial so much. When I compare it to my vintage the difference is striking










I can understand why people love it but for me I'd be replacing the crystal. Of course I'm just a smarmy git because I can say that as I have the vintage anyway 

I've since modified the bracelet endlinks to make them closer to the vintage bracelet












daglesj said:


> I dont get the love for the 300. I think it looks really crap with that domed crystal. Just has next to zero appeal to me cos of that.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Anders_Flint said:


> I may be the only one here that thinks the fixed endlinks were an improvement, I mean once it's on your wrist it's not at all noticeable, as they align with the curve of the strap around your wrist. When off your wrist, they can't fold back and sratch the caseback like they did on the 1200t (which is what people complained about and why they were fixed in the first place*).
> 
> Each to their own I guess, but I've never seen any issue with them.
> 
> *_According to the AD I purchased my 300T from._


Had not heard about scratching the case back. I suppose that's possible. I recall talk about the bracelet not flaring out, like the 300 does.

As SaddleC points out, the fixed beads in the end link effectively extends the lug to lug. One advantage of the 1200T\300T and 300 case sizes is they are 44.5 and 45 mm respectively. That's incredible fr 42 mm divers. It's a big help to people "real estate challenged".

I have 7 1/4" circumference wrists, but more rounded, as tall as wide, so I only have about 46mm of flat space, across the top of my wrist, just above the wrist bone, where a watch sits. These Doxa's are perfect for me. The extra 2mm or so as a result of the 300T's end links would have a sizable impact on fit. I'd also say the full articulated 1200T bracelet wraps better around just about any wrist, except maybe very large.

Of course we all have our likes and dislikes.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Sadly I have to agree with you. I have the 50th USD and the Searamber. My wife blagged them and for once I wasn't upset. The 300 is a fantastic approximation of the vintage one but that domed crystal just shrinks the dial so much. When I compare it to my vintage the difference is striking
> 
> View attachment 15946886
> 
> ...


Yes now it looks far better on that vintage. I could live with that. The new one looks awful with all the reflection. Does not add to clarity IMO.


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

SaddleSC said:


> What size is your wrist? I am guessing 7.25" or greater?


17cm/6.7". May just be the shape of my wrist, but for me it seems to fit quite comfortably.


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

Anders_Flint said:


> 17cm/6.7". May just be the shape of my wrist, but for me it seems to fit quite comfortably.
> 
> View attachment 15947105


Very interesting! My major complaint is more the appearance of the rigid end link when looking down at the watch. It creates a "frame" around the watch head that doesn't conform to the wrist in my eye. Yours looks great!


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Regarding the "milky ring" made by the sapphire crystal on the 300: It would be perfect if Doxa had done like Omega and the Speedmaster; two versions. I would have bought a plexiglass glass 300 in a heart beat.


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## Sampo2 (Jun 11, 2021)

SaddleSC said:


> You are absolutely preaching to choir here. Doxa already had a perfect end link design with full articulation on the 1200T which uses the exact same case as the modern 300T. I will never, in a million years, understand what they were thinking when they decided to make the end links on the 300T rigid and significantly increase the lug-to-lug width. It boggles the mind how poor the design of the 300T end links are.
> 
> I also agree that it shouldn't be necessary on a $2K watch, which is why I am running one of my 300T on Shark Mesh (which I LOVE BTW because it shaves 32 grams from the total weight of the watch) but at some point, I just decided that the end link design is a deal-breaker on a watch that I love. So, if I wanted the OEM look, I was left with two choices. Sell off my 300Ts or take matters into my own hands and reprofile the links. It should not be required, but at the same time, it worked, so I am happy that I had the guts to attempt it!
> 
> The 300 is still the best modern Doxa IMO because of the lower center of gravity, awesome domed crystal, and properly articulated bracelet.


This is exactly my predicament. I had already written off the 300T because of the rigid endlinks. Not necessarily because of fit or comfort but because I absolutely dislike the looks of the strap, I much prefer the articulated strap of the 1200T. So for me the possibility of sanding down the endlinks has reopened the door to buying a new 300T.

Now, having to manipulate the strap of a 2000$ watch so it looks right is absolutely ridiculous, it makes no sense whatsoever and I wouldn´t even consider it if we were talking about a different product. I would simply move on and look elsewhere. But watches are far from logic in my book, so even if I´m not a compulsive buyer by any standards, if I decide a watch is for me, then I´m willing to accept certain drawbacks (albeit only up to a point) I wouldn´t accept in other products. And luckily for Doxa I like their watches very much.

I did consider getting a 300 instead but couldn´t decide if I really liked the domed crystal or the thin bezel lip (I still don´t know yet), so I let it be. I´m much more attracted to the design of the 300T anyway, but to tell the truth I fear seeing a 300 in the flesh... I might get second thoughts 😅


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Anders_Flint said:


> 17cm/6.7". May just be the shape of my wrist, but for me it seems to fit quite comfortably.
> 
> View attachment 15947105


Yes, it's wrist shape, not circumference, that drives "fit". Your 300T looks about the same from this angle as my 1200T looks on my wrist ... which is 7 1/4". I really like my 1200T! Two observations, FWIW.

First, the deep, bowl-shaped case back on the 300T, the same as the 1200, is lifting the watch a little off your wrist. That allows the watch to pivot - maybe just a little - on the "bowl".

Second, the effect of the non-articulating end link beads can be seen in the left: that gap between your wrist and the case would be smaller if the bracelet could drop straight down. On the 1200, that 1st link would be be able to slide a little right, and tuck a little under the lug. And 300T's protruding end link (out past the lug), holds the 1st link away from the case.

Net, a fully articulating end link, flush with the lug tip, would allow the bracelet to better follow the curve of your wrist. I suspect if you pushed the watch to the right, so that the left side conforms to your wrist, the gap would shift to the right lug.

How much of a problem this new bracelet is to some wearers is relative. For many, the new design may be preferred. As you pointed out, preventing scratching of the case back may have been a key to the design changes, and a complain Doxa decided had to be addressed. It always comes down to trade offs.

The 1200T "bowl": Note on the right, you can see how the fully articulating link and flush end link itself allows the 1st link to tuck under the lug tip.









The 1200T "pivot" (arm 90 degrees):










300 "pivot" at the same angle:










Notice how the fully articulating end link allows the first link on the 300 to slide under the lug tip. If the 300's bracelet was the same as the 300T, that 1st link would be over to the left of the lug tip, and that gap between the watch and the wrist much wider. The 300 "sits down" better as well, do to half the "bowl" height of the 1200. That improves stability. Note the 300's case if 45mm, vs the 1200\300T's 44.5mm.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Sadly I have to agree with you. I have the 50th USD and the Searamber. My wife blagged them and for once I wasn't upset. The 300 is a fantastic approximation of the vintage one but that domed crystal just shrinks the dial so much. When I compare it to my vintage the difference is striking
> 
> View attachment 15946886
> 
> ...


The crystal on the vintage seems to sit flush with the bezel?. Not protruding above like the new 300?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

If you haven't seen this before, you may enjoy the read

PERFECT SUB (doxa300t.com)


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

Sampo2 said:


> This is exactly my predicament. I had already written off the 300T because of the rigid endlinks. Not necessarily because of fit or comfort but because I absolutely dislike the looks of the strap, I much prefer the articulated strap of the 1200T. So for me the possibility of sanding down the endlinks has reopened the door to buying a new 300T.
> 
> Now, having to manipulate the strap of a 2000$ watch so it looks right is absolutely ridiculous, *it makes no sense whatsoever and I wouldn´t even consider it if we were talking about a different product. I would simply move on and look elsewhere. But watches are far from logic in my book, so even if I´m not a compulsive buyer by any standards, if I decide a watch is for me, then I´m willing to accept certain drawbacks (albeit only up to a point) I wouldn´t accept in other products. And luckily for Doxa I like their watches very much*.
> 
> I did consider getting a 300 instead but couldn´t decide if I really liked the domed crystal or the thin bezel lip (I still don´t know yet), so I let it be. I´m much more attracted to the design of the 300T anyway, but to tell the truth I fear seeing a 300 in the flesh... I might get second thoughts 😅


Well said...I agree completely!


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

nepatriot said:


> Yes, it's wrist shape, not circumference, that drives "fit". Your 300T looks about the same from this angle as my 1200T looks on my wrist ... which is 7 1/4". I really like my 1200T! Two observations, FWIW.
> 
> First, the deep, bowl-shaped case back on the 300T, the same as the 1200, is lifting the watch a little off your wrist. That allows the watch to pivot - maybe just a little - on the "bowl".
> 
> ...


Excellent pics showing exactly what is happening with the rigid end links. This is a perfect tutorial explaining the issue, and also pointing out the "bowl" effect of the deeper caseback. Anytime you raise the center of gravity it will cause the watch to rock back-and-forth a bit on the bowl. This effect needs to be counter-balanced by a bracelet that has the perfect fit. If the links can articulate more it allows the bracelet to conform to the wrist better.

However, sometimes I do think that slightly rigid end links do help a bit to keep the watch centered on the top fo the wrist. I have noticed this when comparing my Rolex Submariner 16613 (NO Solid End Links) to my 116610 with Solid End Links. That is why my solution on the 300T was to "partially articulate" the links, as opposed to replicating the free-flowing nature of the 1200T bracelet. Whether that turns out to be a permanent solution only time will tell


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> If you haven't seen this before, you may enjoy the read
> 
> PERFECT SUB (doxa300t.com)


Excellent! Answers so many questions! I've been to your site a few times but missed this. The case back part is very interesting: I always thought that was needed for the thicker crystal.

Yes, the perfect Doxa. I wouldn't buy 1 thought ... I'd buy 3. Without knowing the details as you laid them out, somehow the 600T seemed to me to look the most "right".

Often it comes down to trade off's for consumer, when the choices on the table are off the shelf products. For me, the new 300 is, at least for now, best Doxa. The lower profile and better fit trumps the dial. it's not always noticeable as the edge of the box can at times fade away. Or partially fade away.

Over the years I always thought of Doxa as quirky odd things. Orange? Nope. Then, for what ever reason, maybe the crazy low sale price, prompted me to get one of Jake at Dagaz's Aurora's. That was maybe 5 years ago. That was the best fitting watch I ever owned. Amazing. That lease me to Doxa. A few more years of deciding, then a 1200T orange. That's where it started for me. The Aurora case and is close to a 600T in specs.

Thanks again for sharing that link. Below is the old Aurora link.






DAGAZ WATCH LTD.


Custom watch parts for Seiko, selection of complete custom modified watches, watch straps, sapphire glass. Watch photo galleries, and webstore with Paypal checkout.



www.dagazwatch.com


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

SaddleSC said:


> Excellent pics showing exactly what is happening with the rigid end links. This is a perfect tutorial explaining the issue, and also pointing out the "bowl" effect of the deeper caseback. Anytime you raise the center of gravity it will cause the watch to rock back-and-forth a bit on the bowl. This effect needs to be counter-balanced by a bracelet that has the perfect fit. If the links can articulate more it allows the bracelet to conform to the wrist better.
> 
> However, sometimes I do think that slightly rigid end links do help a bit to keep the watch centered on the top fo the wrist. I have noticed this when comparing my Rolex Submariner 16613 (NO Solid End Links) to my 116610 with Solid End Links. That is why my solution on the 300T was to "partially articulate" the links, as opposed to replicating the free-flowing nature of the 1200T bracelet. Whether that turns out to be a permanent solution only time will tell


Agree on the "centering" thing, The 1200, and the 300's (not T), that unrestricted articulation can let the watch flop a little side to side. A flat case back would also fix that, I think. The Sinn 856 for example, or Damasko DA's. They sit and stay, even though they have larger cases: 47mm. The 300 is a lighter watch, so I find it "flops" less than the 1200, on my wrist.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

If any of you have been watching the hydraulic press channel on YouTube, they have been pressure testing dive watches down to 1000m+. 

The main component to fail/show weakness...is the case back. They bend in stopping the watch. Release the pressure and the watch starts up again. The case back has a bit of a concave look to it after though. 

Might be the reason for the shape of the case back.

Interesting from the ones I've seen all the watches have gone double the rated pressure.


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## fehlbaum (Jun 12, 2021)

I've done it too (carefully with Dremel/Proxxon)... since then it has been a perfect fit on my 7 inch wrist 🤩 When adjusting the beads, I noticed that due to the round shape of the case, only the middle bead rests in the flank. This will eat into the case in the long term. A real faulty design that DOXA has to correct in my oppinion…


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## boatswain (Sep 4, 2014)

I will admit the bracelet on the 300T is a detracting point for me. 

It’s too bad as a Doxa BOR bracelet should be a plus not a minus.


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## Sampo2 (Jun 11, 2021)

You guys have followed the brand a lot more than I have. What do you think are the chances that Doxa comes up with a different bracelet for the 300T say next year or so? Would be a bummer to go and buy a 300T only to see a new, fixed bracelet appear a few months later...


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

My feeling is that the SUB 300 bracelet, which is basically the last 1200T bracelet, is perfectly fine. The problem I see is that the new 300T bracelet is too heavy for the watch and the end links are badly designed. They stick out too far, ruining the lines of the watch and do not allow enough articulation of the last link.

If DOXA allowed an option of buying the old 1200T bracelet, I think it would be welcomed. I also believe they should discontinue the new 300T end pieces and go back to the older 1200T design.

Someone at DOXA needs to buy a Maranez BOR bracelet and look at how good a bracelet it is and take design cues from it before making another bracelet.


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## fehlbaum (Jun 12, 2021)

I prefer the strap of the 300t because it is wider in the area of the endlinks and thus visually forms a unit with the watch. The only thing Doxa would have to do is round off the last three beads and the strap would be perfekt.


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## Sampo2 (Jun 11, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> My feeling is that the SUB 300 bracelet, which is basically the last 1200T bracelet, is perfectly fine. The problem I see is that the new 300T bracelet is too heavy for the watch and the end links are badly designed. They stick out too far, ruining the lines of the watch and do not allow enough articulation of the last link.
> 
> If DOXA allowed an option of buying the old 1200T bracelet, I think it would be welcomed. I also believe they should discontinue the new 300T end pieces and go back to the older 1200T design.
> 
> Someone at DOXA needs to buy a Maranez BOR bracelet and look at how good a bracelet it is and take design cues from it before making another bracelet.


Sorry for not being precise, the bracelet does seem very nice, actually. I meant exactly the end links design, as you point out, not the complete bracelet.

Going back to the 1200T bracelet design with the new clasp would nail it IMHO. Either that or learning from Maranez if their BOR bracelet truly is that good (I never got to seeing one). Oh well, I guess we´ll have to wait and see


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Here's a review I did of the 2 versions of the Maranez Samui. It has info on the bracelet



DOXA - MARANEZ





Sampo2 said:


> Sorry for not being precise, the bracelet does seem very nice, actually. I meant exactly the end links design, as you point out, not the complete bracelet.
> 
> Going back to the 1200T bracelet design with the new clasp would nail it IMHO. Either that or learning from Maranez if their BOR bracelet truly is that good (I never got to seeing one). Oh well, I guess we´ll have to wait and see


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## njhinde (Mar 25, 2017)

boatswain said:


> I will admit the bracelet on the 300T is a detracting point for me.
> 
> It's too bad as a Doxa BOR bracelet should be a plus not a minus.


I wouldn't be put off buying a 300T due to the bracelet. I find the BOR is super comfortable and don't have any issues with it at all. I wouldn't have even noticed that the end links stick out if I hadn't read these posts. Having said that, they DO stick out, and Doxa should replace them, but it doesn't bother me and I wouldn't hold off buying a 300T "just in case" a new version pops up at some unknown time in the future.

Meanwhile, I am switching to Isofrane for the summer. A weekend on the beach reminded me that bracelets and sand don't get along ;-)


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

🙃

This whole bracelet end link debate is like a...


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Loevhagen said:


> This whole bracelet end link debate is like a...


What do you expect from a bunch of nitpicking nerds with time on their hands.. 
if it wasn't this we'd find something else to obsess about.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Sorry but I disagree with you. It is a valid discussion on what a number of people feel is a design issue. You seem to be ok with it. That's great. I'm not,
so what may be a storm in a teacup for you is not for me.

DOXA fixed something that wasn't broke and in my opinion, from both an aesthetic point of view and functionally, made it worse.



Loevhagen said:


> ?
> 
> This whole bracelet end link debate is like a...
> 
> ...


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Sorry but I disagree with you. It is a valid discussion on what a number of people feel is a design issue. You seem to be ok with it. That's great. I'm not,
> so what may be a storm in a teacup for you is not for me.
> 
> DOXA fixed something that wasn't broke and in my opinion, from both an aesthetic point of view and functionally, made it worse.


You are right that Doxa made a mistake in their design and I think most here agree. It is however a relatively inconsequential problem in a broader sense. If we are completely honest no one really needs a Doxa, and how it's designed is a bit of a privileged problem. 
As such it really is a bit of a storm in a teacup.

At least I think so.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm probably the wrong person to be involved with this stuff because you are right, no-one needs a Doxa or pretty much anything outside the food, shelter, sex, health stuff. However, we have the disposable income to buy life's luxuries and with Doxa I look at it like it was my company and what would I do.

Realistically Doxa is a niche brand, they want to sell lots more watches and go more mainstream. For me that doesn't just mean paid infomercials / reviews and getting front and center to the buying public, it also means giving people what they want to buy at a price they feel comfortable paying.

I'll ignore the price of the T-Gragh and Carbon and Jelly Bean variants...another discussion.

It also, for me, means upping their service game. Making spare parts available to watchmakers. Making the whole owning a Daxa watch an experience that makes you feel good. That also involves the final fit, finish and design aestethic.

Good enough is not good enough in my book. As my father used to say: it's not about being better, it is about being seen to be better. Do the fecking thing right or don't do it at all. At almost $2000 there are a bunch of options out there which many people would consider better. Good enough will not attract those people.

The new ICE Era 300T endpieces are good enough for Doxa and some people but not me. It is a fail and anything that has someone buying a $2000 watch and then having to take a dremel to the bracelet is a sacking offence for the Doxa design department in my world.

And don't get me started on not fixing the HEV position  or using the Fried Chicken camera case box as a case. It's good enough...............

As I said, I'm probably the wrong person 



MadsNilsson said:


> You are right that Doxa made a mistake in their design and I think most here agree. It is however a relatively inconsequential problem in a broader sense. If we are completely honest no one really needs a Doxa, and how it's designed is a bit of a privileged problem.
> As such it really is a bit of a storm in a teacup.
> 
> At least I think so.
> ...


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm probably the wrong person to be involved with this stuff because you are right, no-one needs a Doxa or pretty much anything outside the food, shelter, sex, health stuff. However, we have the disposable income to buy life's luxuries and with Doxa I look at it like it was my company and what would I do.
> 
> Realistically Doxa is a niche brand, they want to sell lots more watches and go more mainstream. For me that doesn't just mean paid infomercials / reviews and getting front and center to the buying public, it also means giving people what they want to buy at a price they feel comfortable paying.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100%, doc! Nothing is more infuriating than change for the sake of change. Doxa already had the perfect end link design with the 1200T. This is not a situation where the new end link design added something that people wanted, but the unintended side effect was the increased rigidity. They literally took a perfect design and made it much worse with zero appreciable benefit.

Whether this issue is noticed by or affects many customers is not really the point. The real question is why they did this in the first place. It certainly dampens a buyer's enthusiasm when they have to take a Dremel to a brand new watch to make it fit properly. I have customized mine and now I love the watch, but if I had been hesitant to risk altering the bracelet, the 300T would most likely have been a catch-and-release for me. The new end link design is aweful.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

I love the flared out bracelet and the 300T end links. It just makes the Doxa perfect.  The straight 1200-design is less imaginative and does not look that good design wise. But, hey - I'm in the minority here and that is OK. However, if you think of it - I'm actually the majority - since most people buying the 300T and the said bracelet never post on these forums but merely wear and enjoys the watch as it is bought.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

And this is based on what? So they never post. That can mean several things. (a) they never post, (b) they never post and like the end links, (c) they never post and don't like the end links.

How do you know they "merely wear and enjoys the watch as it is bought"

I have an old watch I have never posted about. How would anyone know what I thought about it?



Loevhagen said:


> since most people buying the 300T and the said bracelet never post on these forums but merely wear and enjoys the watch as it is bought.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Loevhagen said:


> I love the flared out bracelet and the 300T end links. It just makes the Doxa perfect.  The straight 1200-design is less imaginative and does not look that good design wise. But, hey - I'm in the minority here and that is OK. However, if you think of it - I'm actually the majority - since most people buying the 300T and the said bracelet never post on these forums but merely wear and enjoys the watch as it is bought.


Yeah the flares are essential. 20mm is too narrow looking from a watch IMO. 22mm is fine. I've put several straps on my 300T in the three months I've had it but I go back to the BOR. I do like my watches to be heavy. A watch is the only item of jewellery I wear so I want it to have presence for me and those around. The only thing I really don't like about it is its so difficult to fit back into the lugs. The end links make it quite tricky. Take me ages and a lot of swearing.


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## sawyer (Mar 18, 2008)

Flyingdoctor said:


> And this is based on what? So they never post. That can mean several things. (a) they never post, (b) they never post and like the end links, (c) they never post and don't like the end links.
> 
> How do you know they "merely wear and enjoys the watch as it is bought"
> 
> I have an old watch I have never posted about. How would anyone know what I thought about it?


I think what he is trying to say is that since a lot of the people don't come here to complain about the bracelet, we can deduct that they are relatively please with the look of it. Otherwise there would have been much more postings regarding the bad fit/aesthetics since the general consideration is that an unhappy customer will be much more likely to post a bad review than a happy customer a good review.

From a marketing perspective he does have a valid point. If you google the bracelet so called "issue" you won't get too many returns.

I personally had some issues with it at the beginning, but it has grown on me and now it does not bother me that much.


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## fehlbaum (Jun 12, 2021)

Brief feedback on the bracelet problem: rounding off the last three beads of the endlinks means that the last, wider links of the bracelet will eat into the lugs of the case in the long term. Since 1/2 year I´m wearing a 300t without rounded endlinks (so in original condition) and I´m absolutely satisfied with the design and the wearing comfort...late realization ;-) 
My recommendation therefore: keep your hands off the bracelet and wear the watch as it is. You will be satisfied in the long run.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

fehlbaum said:


> Brief feedback on the bracelet problem: rounding off the last three beads of the endlinks means that the last, wider links of the bracelet will eat into the lugs of the case in the long term. Since 1/2 year I´m wearing a 300t without rounded endlinks (so in original condition) and I´m absolutely satisfied with the design and the wearing comfort...late realization ;-)
> My recommendation therefore: keep your hands off the bracelet and wear the watch as it is. You will be satisfied in the long run.


I think in my lifetime that won't be a worry. I'm 51 and I want my 18 month old 300T to get worn out and worn up. Everyone should buy a Doxa at 30 at the latest in life.


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