# West End Watch Co. - Three interesting watches



## bubba48 (Jan 25, 2012)

Hope that my English is good enough to be understood

​*1)*

The West End Watch Co., a little known maison (at least in Italy) that was the first to mount the antichock on an industrial scale on their watches, was among the first to adopt the water-resistant cases FB as well as having significantly contributed to the spread of Swiss watchmaking in the Far East, has often given me pleasant surprises.

West End Watch told me that the watch has been manufactured in the late '30s, presumably at the turn of 1938 and 1939










I would like to be able to tell you something about Mr. ARL Baker, Irish in Belfast










Under the caseback, I found a little surprise










So Mr. Baker was an Official of the 'Indian Civil Service in the early '40s and I went straight to requests for information both to London and India, but despite several reminders, I got only silence ..........

It remains, however, the consolation of having a discrete movement (based FHF 30)....











....and a watch with a little of history










It is not a precious watch, but of those that I like.

*2)

*This is a watch that, at least initially, appeared an anomalous one to me.












Logo absent and not gone for external agents.










The movement, and so far nothing in particular, is the classic Longines 10.68Z with blued screws.










The case begins instead to be outside of the usual canons










The most that leaved me puzzled was the dial on which stood the absence of the Longines logo. 
Seized from the doubt that it was an assemblage, I contacted Longines

_"Dear Mr. Xxxxxx,_
_Thank you for your e-mail as well as for your interest in LONGINES watches._
_#serial number 6'618'295, Wristwatch in steel with leather band. It has a movement caliber 10.68Z_
_It was invoiced to Messrs West End Watch, at that time our agents for the India, on 05.02.1944._
_It is possible that the case was changed by our agent._
_You can consider this watch as a original LONGINES watch._
_We hope this information is convenient to you, we remain on your disposal and send you our best regards,_

_Frédéric Donzé_
_Documentaliste"_

West End Watch was then allowed to mount Longines movements in other cases.

I therefore turned to the West End

_"Dear Mr Xxxxxx,_
_Thanks for your message and interest in our West End Watches._

_Before West End Watch was purchasing watches bearing its brand name from several historical brands (such as Longines, Cyma, Tissot, Mido, Omega, IWC, Aubry, etc.) West End was the only brand for which Longines was producing watches without the Longines name on dial and case. The West End Watch Co. had started in Bombay. The founder was Mr Droz, whose family company was located in St-Imier and they were neighbours with Longines. West End was also the agent for Longines in India until the late 1950s when the market was closed for the importation of Swiss watches._
_The West End Watch Co. was taken over in 1973 and offices moved from Geneva to Le Noirmont (Jura). Then, again, in 2001, the company was taken over and moved from Le Noirmont to the present place Leytron (Vallese). Not all archives have followed over the decades, not speaking about the offices in India which were closed down in the 1950s and 2000 for the last one._
_However, the date you mentionate is absolutely realistic; Longines has supplied West End until the 1950s._
_Regarding Borgel cases, see the very interesting article under The history of François Borgel, Louisa Borgel and the Taubert family - watch case makers of Geneva, Switzerland_
_We remain at your entire disposal for further information_
_With best regards from Canton Vallese (not far away from Milano!)._
_WE/J. Monnat Jr - CEO"_

I learned something really interesting about the relationship between Longines and the West End Watch Co, as well as between West End and Borgel.

*3)
*
Here the "anomaly" is repeated in this watch: a West End-Multifort











Caseback marked WEW and properly coupled with the case











The movement, the classic Mido1941 based on AS, is marked WEW











Let's compare this watch with a "classic" Mido; case and dial (except for the different spheres and finishing) are the same










Casebacks and serial numbers have the same style











The watch has been manufactured by Mido and it is registered in their archives

_"Dear Mr. Xxxxxx,_
_We thank you for your request and for your interest in Mido watches._
_All we can say about this watch is that the year of manufacture is 1942._
_We stay at your disposal for any other information._
_Best Regards_

_MIDO SA_
_Delphine Huot"_

What does West End Watch say about this watch? Here is an excerpt of the correspondence with.

_"&#8230;West End has been the agent of several brands for the Indian market. Longines, of course, was the most significant one. But West End has also been the agent of Mido from 1938 to 1951, when the Indian market was closed to importations after the independence. I have read it in the history of the brand - written by the late Mr. Foex, who has been director from 1920 to 1973! - that West End has sold several thousand (if I remember about 5,000) such automatic WE-Multifort in India, but they were suffering of weaknesses with the automatic system&#8230;_
_&#8230;After a few years, the owner of Mido, Mr. Schaeren, has wished to fly by his own wings on the Indian market. Mr. Foex writes that Mr. Schaeren could not sell a single watch on the Indian market without the West End support&#8230;_
_&#8230;I have checked in the old files and as far as we could understand, the watches were 100% supplied to West End. It means they were produced with the West End marks by Mido..."._

This is an other important testimony on how the Swiss watches has been marketed in India by West End Watch Co.










Now a touch of color, all three watches bear on the caseback the owner's name and both the Sowan and Mido come from Belfast.


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## Tony C. (Dec 9, 2006)

Very interesting post – thanks!


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## huntershooter (Mar 30, 2009)

Good stuff. 
Thank you.


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## Paleotime (Apr 7, 2008)

Great post. Your english is excellent by the way...


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## john87300 (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks for a great post Bubba, yet another post I have learned a lot from


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

If I may add a lil bit.....the watch model is "Sowar" and not "Sowan". Sowar is an Urdu/Hindi/Hindustani word which means "Rider"..... in general, and mostly refers to a horse rider in the Military.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Britishshortair (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks Luigi , excellent thread as usual.......Sir Lawrence of Arabia used to be a client of WEW&C°..........
My former Sowar









My Longines ref.6656 made for WEW&C° and with CS(I) marking on a picture of Sir Lawrence of Arabia....


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## Marrick (May 2, 2007)

Nice pcture. Lawrence was based in the small seaside town that I now live in for a few years. From Wikipedia:

_He continued serving in the RAF based at Bridlington, East Riding of Yorkshire, specialising in high-speed boats and professing happiness, and it was with considerable regret that he left the service at the end of his enlistment in March 1935._

Anyway - this thread has the best collection of West End watches that I've ever seen. Its a pity that so many others have been 'restored' so badly as to be grotesque. I'll get a nice one some day.


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## joeuk (Feb 16, 2010)

ahhh bridlington always go here a few times a year, but stay at flamborough these are my fav places. Great post bubba and loving your collection.


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## alvaropinto (Apr 30, 2008)

Great thread with lots of good info. especially for those who my myself love west end vintage watches.
I own several and have two very similar to those in the original post.
Here they are. Longines inside a west end case and dial is always a great surprise!
Both were also issued for the CS in India.
Cheers!


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## alvaropinto (Apr 30, 2008)

...and a 3rd one.. also






CS(I).


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## mike184 (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Mr. Xxxxxxx!

Thanx for an interesting lesson in WEWCo and for sharing some pics of these three beauties. I really enjoyed it.


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## bubba48 (Jan 25, 2012)

mike184 said:


> Hi Mr. Xxxxxxx!
> 
> Thanx for an interesting lesson in WEWCo and for sharing some pics of these three beauties. I really enjoyed it.


Many thanks by Mr. Xxxxxx


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## spinkk (Jun 26, 2010)

West End Watch Co. Contest for oldest West End watch.


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## vick180 (Dec 5, 2011)

They are truly very interesting watches. Can you tell me what has happened to there website? Can't seem to log on to it from watchuseek?


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## Tomcat1960 (Feb 23, 2012)

Truly the best bit of information I found on the web West End watches. I particularly liked the part on "Mido on their own wings" 

I'm currently working on a feature on my little collection of black-faced West End Watches:

I'm particularly fond of this one:

View attachment 1018420


It has the 'classic' case and the lume in its hands has deteriorated to a jade-like look I like particularly well. The black dial and red second hand gives it some 'military' appeal - I simply love it.

The second one picks up the "Datejust" look particularly well liked in the 1970s to 1990s:

View attachment 1018425


Its ETA 2824 movement runs nicely and the lume still does its job. The DJ case makes it look pretty small, though.

The crown jewel in my WEW-collection is this day-date with an ETA 2789:

View attachment 1018428


I know they are nowhere near the vintage presented in the previous postings, but I think West End did a marvellous job in combining the spirit of their history with modern watch technology. That's truly what they call "tradition".

Thanks for this thread!


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## bubba48 (Jan 25, 2012)

Nice collection, Tomcat, congrats.
And thanks for your appreciation.


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

Just got this vintage 1945 West End Watch..










Inside....










Is anyone able to identify the calibre for me?

Cheers


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## robokendall (Nov 16, 2013)

Hi I have bought one and can't find any info on the date or style???? anyone with any ideas?


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## alvaropinto (Apr 30, 2008)

The movement looks in good shape so it probably needs a good service. I have a couple of these and they usually carry the indian civil service letters CS(I).
Great watch!

Sent from my GT-S5280 using Tapatalk


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## Will3020 (Aug 28, 2012)

OP: great photos, especially of the movements and very interesting info.


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## indonesia (Aug 16, 2013)

robokendall said:


> Hi I have bought one and can't find any info on the date or style???? anyone with any ideas?
> 
> View attachment 1284373
> 
> ...


Check this out West End Watches


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## Sdasurrey (Oct 1, 2013)

Wow - a ton of info in your initial thread post ! I have one West End 'Extra' from 1925 which has a Longines movement dated from 1917 by serial number so it must have sat around after the War. It is interesting though as a 'Doctors Watch' with an early center second hand, thanks again, Scott



















Sent from SDA's iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

anzac1957 said:


> 1945 West End Watch..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just had a closer look and the movement is marked 10.68N


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## duffhessian1776 (Jan 11, 2013)

I know this an old thread, but hopefully someone will find this post.

I have just picked up 2 Sowar Prima Automatics in Afghanistan.

I have attached hastily taken photos. Anyone out there who can shed some light on these?

When made? Where made? What movements should I expect to find when I pop the case backs?

I collect Soviet & Russians. Swiss are not really my thing. I thought they were too interesting to pass up.

Thanks in advance for any and all information/direction you are willing to offer.
d.


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

duffhessian1776 said:


> I know this an old thread, but hopefully someone will find this post.
> 
> I have just picked up 2 Sowar Prima Automatics in Afghanistan.
> 
> ...


It would be good if you could include some movements shots..


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## duffhessian1776 (Jan 11, 2013)

Coming soon. No jewelers in Afghanistan. Will have to find a wrench.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Interesting! Sold in Afghanistan (where they speak a form of Farsi, i.e. Persian), yet with arabic numerals and a British day-of-the-week......

Hartmut Richter


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## duffhessian1776 (Jan 11, 2013)

Indeed. And fully original. These are to be found in factory catalogs depicted as such.

BTW, Tony, I hope to have the movement shots in a couple of hours.


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## JohnM67 (Jun 16, 2014)

All beautiful watches.

It was the Lawrence of Arabia connection that partly inspired me to add one to my collection.

Not vintage - but definitely retains the vintage look and a faintly military air.

It still carries the 'Sowar' name - meaning 'one who rides', such as a Cavalryman or Lancer:


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## Tomcat1960 (Feb 23, 2012)

Interesting dials, duffhessian1776. Never met one with arabic numerals before! Movements are likely ETA 2770 (no date) and 2836 (daydate) - at least mine are so equipped. 

Best,
Tomcat


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## bubba48 (Jan 25, 2012)

I resume this old thread because I received further confirmation from St. Imier about the relationship between Longines and West End Watch Co.

_"...We confirm the names West End Watch Co and Swiss Made are printed on the dial (this is written in our archives). We also agree that not each Longines watch has the name Longines on the dial..."_

I also found in the book written by Pierre-Yves Donzé on Longines an interesting notation










The passage highlighted


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## sarvesh (Mar 30, 2016)

Dear Friends

Grab this watch today. Pls have a look on the movement and let me know the movement number. is it original?

Thanks


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## kriswatch16 (Aug 25, 2016)

I have a West end Queen Anne but the movement says CYMA . In this thread I saw you had mentioned about Longines movement in West end watches. Did they have CYMA movements as well or is this Franken ?


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## anzac1957 (Oct 2, 2008)

Not sure.. But case looks wrong too..

Here is my Queen Anne..





41mm including crown.. needs period correct crown and correct minutes hand..

Cheers


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## bubba48 (Jan 25, 2012)

kriswatch16 said:


> I have a West end Queen Anne but the movement says CYMA . In this thread I saw you had mentioned about Longines movement in West end watches. Did they have CYMA movements as well or is this Franken ?


It's a franken in my opinion.


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## Tomcat1960 (Feb 23, 2012)

@ bubba48: can you please explain what you base this opinion on? Your starting post in this thread has a quote from West End Watches where they state that



> _Before West End Watch was purchasing watches bearing its brand name from several historical brands (such as Longines, Cyma, Tissot, Mido, Omega, IWC, Aubry, etc.) West End was the only brand for which Longines was producing watches without the Longines name on dial and case._


This seems to indicate (to me, at least) that West End actually used CYMA movements in their watches.

Or do you mean the watch as a whole is frankened? (I know next to nothing about the Queen Anne model, but given in how many shapes and with how many movements the 'Sowar' came I can imagine that there were different cases and movements for other series as well.)

Best,
Andreas


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## Aashdin (Sep 28, 2010)

It's a franken for sure. Unlike the Sowar Prima, Queen Anne watches only came in 2 types of cases. The one above shown by Tony & the other type is a cushion case, slightly smaller and quite rare.
Although the the dials had many variations.. I have 6 Queen Annes out of which only one has a cushion case. This model was bought & worn by many of the soldiers of Lawrence of Arabia's Imperial Camel Corps, but contrary to popular belief, Lawrence of Arabia wore an Omega chronograph.
Here are 2 from my collection


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## bubba48 (Jan 25, 2012)

Aashdin said:


> It's a franken for sure. Unlike the Sowar Prima, Queen Anne watches *only came in 2 types of cases*. The one above shown by Tony & the other type is a cushion case, slightly smaller and quite rare.
> ...


|>


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## kriswatch16 (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks. In my QueenAnne only case is wrong or movement is also wrong (it carries CYMA movement). But thread has a passage that West end used Cyma movement.


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## Balikpapan62 (Oct 16, 2020)

duffhessian1776 said:


> I know this an old thread, but hopefully someone will find this post.
> 
> I have just picked up 2 Sowar Prima Automatics in Afghanistan.
> 
> ...


Most likely these


duffhessian1776 said:


> I know this an old thread, but hopefully someone will find this post.
> 
> I have just picked up 2 Sowar Prima Automatics in Afghanistan.
> 
> ...


I have a black dial Sowar Prima with Farsi (Persian) day date, the movement is a manual wind FHF 373. I also have a 1969 sowar prima boy's watch (my first watch!) also with an FHF, just serviced it and running nicely!


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## allfacts (11 mo ago)

Fascinating post. I just got this one today for next to nothing and went home and googled it. Thanks for the giving me some clues about the history of my watch. Would love to hear more.


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