# Brand Value : Tag Vs Longines



## madhavi (Aug 10, 2014)

I like some of the models from both brands. They are different styles altogether but both have models I like in different ways. At about $2,500 to $3,500 ( grey market), they are not cheap for me. I want to make sure that if I am investing that kind of money, brand value should also be considered as a factor in decision making. 

I am a novice and from what I have gathered so far, I kind of get the feeling that Tag is at least a notch higher than Longines. 

What do you think? And why?


Thank you,


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

"investing" is not a word to used with watches.


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## dbakiva (May 7, 2011)

Which one delivers more enjoyment when on your wrist? This alone may outweigh the comparatively minor "value" difference, if indeed there is one.


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## *El Ocho 1* (Jan 7, 2009)

TAG is a brand more widely recognized by non-watch people. They spend a lot on advertising & celebrity "ambassadors"......


Longines is a brand widely respected by watch enthusiast, with a lot of history (the oldest registered logo in the world) & a great value....


Look at my signature & try to figure out which I like more...


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## Zeroedout (Jul 25, 2014)

I think the simple answer is that they tend to appeal to different audiences.

The following is merely my perception, so take it with a grain of salt:

On the forums, I suspect Longines may get the nod for being a bit more refined, with a hint of subtle elegance and strong tradition. Tag can be a bit polarizing in their aggressive marketing campaigns and brand ambassadors. Quality wise, I think they tend to be on par with one another when comparing similarly priced collections.

On the street, I suspect Tag would generally be recognized as "a notch above"; especially to a younger demographic. I say that for no reason beyond my belief that their marketing campaign has found it's audience. 

In general, Tag Heuer tends to be seen as "sportier". Longines, perhaps a bit more "mature" (for lack of a better word).

Obviously, these generalizations are just my opinion and plagued with exceptions. For what it's worth, I own a Tag and I am currently considering an LLD. I like both brands.


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## Pentameter (Aug 14, 2014)

Such a complex subject. Are you talking about in general to the uninformed masses? Then Tag is likely perceived as a higher "brand" value. If you're talking about watch aficionado's, then Longines. If I were you, I would be much more concerned with real intrinsic value then brand value (in which case, definitely Longines).


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## novedl (May 20, 2009)

dbakiva said:


> Which one delivers more enjoyment when on your wrist? This alone may outweigh the comparatively minor "value" difference, if indeed there is one.


 An excellent response; it says all the OP need know!


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## UKMike (Aug 4, 2012)

As one of the more "mature" gents, I am clearly not a target customer for TAG and I would therefore value Longines as the higher brand. The fact that they are known to decorate their movements even on solid-back watches, indicates a company which does not compromise on its quality and heritage. Their dress watches are classic and elegant.

I see TAG as the premier "fashion watch" to appeal to the younger generation and possibly the aspirational purchase for sporty, brand-conscious people. They back this up with relentless, and expensive, celebrity advertising and promotion. That does not however make them better - just better known.

Longines for me.


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## AAMC (May 25, 2011)

*El Ocho 1* said:


> TAG is a brand more widely recognized by non-watch people. They spend a lot on advertising & celebrity "ambassadors"......
> 
> Longines is a brand widely respected by watch enthusiast, with a lot of history (the oldest registered logo in the world) & a great value....
> 
> Look at my signature & try to figure out which I like more...


It depends on part of the world you are, actually Longines sells more watches than TAG. (Longines is huge in Asia with a lot of advertising and "local" celebrities).

Anyway I tend to prefer Longines on a dressier/vintage inspired side (the Conquest Classic and Heritage ranges are quite nice) and TAG on sportier/contemporary side.

The Longines are still a bit affordable in general but TAG is starting a new brand positioning and they will focus on more affordable watches.

If you are looking for a Chronograph, the Longines powered by the column-wheel chronograph are great at an yet "affordable" price.


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## Kluber (Aug 9, 2014)

Neither brand is an investment. (Nor are any other brands in all seriousness). 

I don't think either is that much of a notch above the other but would give Longines the nod here (perhaps others disagree). I much prefer the design styles and history of Longines. 

I'd also guess Tag would be more recognizable because of marketing, as others have suggested, but even then probably not that much. Being understated is more preferable to me anyway, and for that, Longines wins out even more.


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## bacari (Nov 14, 2007)

Longines will most likely win out here. Definitely Longines for me. Dbakiva gave the best advice.... buy what you like.


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## BGPT23 (Feb 26, 2013)

Longines is a brand that reminds me of a fellow watch enthusiast who was a customer at my old job. He always recognized and had something to say about whatever watch I was wearing. He wore a nice Longines himself much of the time, in rotation with an Oris and an Omega. 

TAG Heuer reminds me of my old boss at that same job, who had a couple of Tommy Hilfigers, and said he aspired to some day own a "TAG" (I doubt he knew how to pronounce "Heuer").

I'm definitely generalizing, and am aware this is often not the case, but Longines seems to appeal more to the serious watch guys, while TAG Heuer seems to appeal more to the masses. As for the actual quality of each, I think they are very comparable, neither is well above the other.


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## dero (Nov 4, 2011)

Talk about a can of worms that has just been opened up.

All you've really asked for is to find out the number of people who would either desire to bash TAG or bash Longines. I think you'll find more people want to bash TAG coming out of the woodwork here for reasons generally unrelated to what is actual reality.

Both brands use generic movements in their watch lines.
Both brands have been around for a long time.
Both brands have watches priced in a similar price range.
One company has come out recently with a string of really interesting and highly technical movements.
One company is owned by LVMH.
One company is owned by Swatch.

Please note - the above 6 lines should be utterly irrelevant in your determination of which one you wish to spend your limited funds on.

The line below should be the method of determination in your purchase.

Which one do you want to see on your wrist every day?


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## ShortOnTime3 (Dec 23, 2013)

I think in a given price range, most watches are generally, fairly similar. As a result you have people primarily judging the watch based on non-watch related issues. I agree with the poster who said to get what you like. I generally find the more expensive Tags to be much more attractive to me than their less expensive pieces. Longines watches don't do much for me at any price points, but again, that's based purely on my own subjective biases.


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## Zeroedout (Jul 25, 2014)

Pardon a brief aside: I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning how a watch is likely to be perceived by others. I also don't think it's inherently wrong to weigh that perception in regard to ones decision making process. Heck, I'm not ashamed to admit that I give "what others will think" some consideration when making a purchase. Is it the sole factor in my choosing a watch? Of course not (my selections will attest to that), but I won't deny that it crosses my mind. Lol


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## FernandoValenzuela (Dec 23, 2008)

Zeroedout said:


> Pardon a brief aside: I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning how a watch is likely to be perceived by others. I also don't think it's inherently wrong to weigh that perception in regard to ones decision making process. Heck, I'm not ashamed to admit that I give "what others will think" some consideration when making a purchase. Is it the sole factor in my choosing a watch? Of course not (my selections will attest to that), but I won't deny that it crosses my mind. Lol


I agree that brand perception can be a valid consideration for some people. For me it's not really a consideration. I'm happy knowing what I have on my wrist even if others don't. In fact, sometimes it's better that way so you're not a target for thieves.


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## thehighwayjazz (Apr 18, 2014)

I have the TAG GMT Caliber 8 and Longines Heritage 1954. Enjoy both equally. Can't really help you in this issue.
Good luck.


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## jilgiljongiljing (Jun 20, 2011)

Both of them make quality watches and have lots of good stuff. It really comes down to which design and style you prefer.


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## eddiea (Mar 26, 2006)

A personal thing ...
I like Tag better, Longines don't' make anything approaching the Carrera re-edition appeal (as an example) and are melted in the big Swatch pot...and although we can say the same about the TAG/LVMH relation, TAG seems to enjoy a more free and independently diversified business model.


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## ryanmanyes (Oct 21, 2013)

TAG Heuer are generally perceived as a prestigious luxury brand that produces high end timepieces, this is largely given to it's aggressive marketing strategy. Watch enthusiasts however are less enthused. Technically, although competent, there is not much to marvel at in their consumer collections (particularly Link, Aquaracer and Formula 1) given their price point. For less money you can have any number of Longines that are every bit equal to a Tag Heuer. Their heritage inspired designs tend to capture the hearts of enthusiasts too. 

I actually think Longines is in ascendancy, whilst TAG is on their way down, so soon one brand will be no better than the other in the public's perception.

Tho IMO I think you should save some money and get a Longines. Their heritage retro watches are too cool to pass up.


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## technologic (May 17, 2014)

A lot of people seem to resent Tag Heuer because they feel they've manufactured a positive reputation primarily with marketing. To me it's a very odd perspective because this is the very purpose of marketing, and if anything it's a reason to be impressed by them. At any rate I'd go with what looks the best to you. Personally find Tags more stylish/attractive than Longines.


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## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

Tag IMHO has better brand recognition and is perceived to be a notch above Longines by most people. However Longines is good value, usually giving you more watch for the same amount of money compared to Tag. Hence personally I would choose Longines over Tag as I like many of their designs. Just buy what you like and can comfortably pay for?


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

what do you mean by brand value and how do you think it makes a watch better or worse?

as far as my experience tells me, whenever anyone asks about value of any sort, the "answer" will tend to be the cheaper watch.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Having sold both, Longines.


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## Arthur M (Nov 9, 2013)

Heuer (Carrera, Monaco) > Longines > Tag.


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## Enoran (Apr 15, 2009)

I'm partial to Longines as I really like their vintage/retro/heritage inspired pieces from the heritage collection.
If the general perception is that both are equal in quality, then Longines carries a little more value as the average Tag is still more expensive than a average Longines when bought new.

Having said that, I saw a colleague of mine with the new Tag F1 non-chrono automatic, which I find quite attractive and surprisingly, the pricing was fair (imo at least) for a Tag Auto.








TAG Heuer Formula 1 Automatic & Chronograph Watches For 2014 Hands-On | aBlogtoWatch


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Arthur M said:


> Heuer (Carrera, Monaco) > Longines > Tag.


could you explain why?


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## novedl (May 20, 2009)

Is the OP interested in specific models from either brand? The net you have casted is rather broad.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

If I'm getting something dressy, I'd go Longines. If sporty, then TAG.



Watchbreath said:


> Having sold both, Longines.


Explain? (I always want to hear the inside scoop)


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

drunken monkey said:


> could you explain why?


That seems to be a pretty common statement without much of an explanation on WUS lately. It's cool to dislike TAG but equally as cool to appreciate Heuer.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

There are a few Longines pieces I like (Legends Diver and the column wheel chronograph movement) but for the most part, Longines watches just seem boring and lame to me. I don't need them to be sportier or flashy, just not so boring in general.


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## Arthur M (Nov 9, 2013)

drunken monkey said:


> could you explain why?


Of course.

Subjective opinion:

The Heuer watches have a formidable design identity and are icons in their own right. This leads to particularly strong releases from Tag Heuer in these lines (1887, CH80, Cal. 5, etc.) in their legacy lines. Longines on the other hand, has less of an iconic appeal and certainly has a lower marketable identity in their designs. Tags post-Heuer designs, I consider hideous for the most part and on the losing side of this three way comparison.

Simply, from my subjective view, I would buy a Carrera or Monaco over anything Longines has to offer, but I would buy most Longines over the post-Heuer Tag designs.

A used Carrera caliber 5 is one of the best values in the under-$1000 market; while it isn't pure heuer anymore, it still shares the design identity of a chronograph that came out the same year as the Daytona.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

so really, you are taking about individual watch designs and not brand.


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## mew88 (Jun 1, 2010)

Most watches aren't investments and you shouldn't concern yourself with brand value, both brands tend to do poorly in the resale market.


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

I didn't read most of the thread but I can guess where it went.

This is a VASTLY complex question actually. 

There was a time when Longines was one of the world's premier watch makers and the pieces from that era are highly sought after, not quite Patek or Rolex desirability but only a step behind even if the prices don't fully reflect it. That day is long gone and Longines is owned by Swatch and is tied by Swatch to a rather specific spot in the hierarchy. Longines makes some great pieces especially in their Heritage line but they don't do huate hologerie.

Tag has a excellent haute hologerie group and makes some of the most sophisticated chronographs in the world. Nobody really competes with them here, but those pieces are 30 or more times your budget. They also make fairly pedestrian low end pieces as well. The are owned by LVMH and given looser reigns to do as they please. In general they have a lot of WIS people who dislike them for a number of reasons but in the end they make good watches below and above Longines. 

For me at the OP's price point I would probably pick Longines because that is the area they compete best in, their best values are in that range. That is ONLY if they have a watch you prefer. If the budget were a little higher I would shift over to Tag. I think the most important thing here is buy the watch you prefer from either of these manufacturers within the price range you are going to get fairly similar quality watches and given that I always pick the watch I like more visually and on the wrist than the one that might be slightly higher in quality. 

These companies have different design ethos and I think if you look and try on their watches you will find that one of them stands out, buy that one no matter which name is on the dial since between these two manufacturers the quality within your price range is close enough that there is no need for it to over-ride how the watch makes you feel when it is on your wrist.


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## Arthur M (Nov 9, 2013)

drunken monkey said:


> so really, you are taking about individual watch designs and not brand.


I forgot there is a value related to a brand irrespective of their watches.


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

Enoran said:


> Having said that, I saw a colleague of mine with the new Tag F1 non-chrono automatic, which I find quite attractive and surprisingly, the pricing was fair (imo at least) for a Tag Auto.
> TAG Heuer Formula 1 Automatic & Chronograph Watches For 2014 Hands-On | aBlogtoWatch


That's rather nice.


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## Zeroedout (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm speculating, but maybe "brand value" is synonymous with "prestige" here. 

When a client referred to my Raymond Weil Freelancer chronograph as an "inexpensive fashion watch" before a captive dinner audience, it pissed me off a bit. I'm not ashamed to admit that my ego rears its ugly head on occasion, so I think I get where he's coming from. 

Then again, maybe he is talking about resale value or comparable price to value ratio. I've had a slow day and posted way too much. I may be way off base.


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## novedl (May 20, 2009)

Zeroedout said:


> I'm speculating, but maybe "brand value" is synonymous with "prestige" here. When a client referred to my Raymond Weil Freelancer chronograph as an "inexpensive fashion watch" before a captive dinner audience, it pissed me off a bit. I'm not ashamed to admit that my ego rears its ugly head on occasion, so I think I get where he's coming from. Then again, maybe he is talking about resale value or comparable price to value ratio. I've had a slow day and posted way too much. I may be way off base.


.

Your client is a rude arse!


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Arthur M said:


> I forgot there is a value related to a brand irrespective of their watches.


by value do you mean that one is more expensive than the other and thus can be viewed as being worse value?

does that then take into account that one is able to be cheaper because it has support from its parent group and its resources whereas the other has to rely more on its own resources?

short version, one makes more of their own watches than the other.

By what criteria are you determining value?


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## Toothbras (Apr 19, 2010)

Ask yourself this: is a Longines versatile enough to be worn like this? No, no it is not


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## Zeroedout (Jul 25, 2014)

novedl said:


> .
> 
> Your client is a rude arse!


He later became a friend. It would take too long to explain the context of the comment, but in a sense it was understandable.

I mention it because I think it helps illustrate that occasionally, despite some of our protests, what other people think can have some bearing on how we feel about our watches. Hence, the value of "brand perception".

I'm guessing many people will disagree with that notion. Maybe it's just something I need to work on. Lol.


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## Arthur M (Nov 9, 2013)

drunken monkey said:


> by value do you mean that one is more expensive than the other and thus can be viewed as being worse value?
> 
> does that then take into account that one is able to be cheaper because it has support from its parent group and its resources whereas the other has to rely more on its own resources?
> 
> ...


Depends on what "brand value" means. For me, the value of a brand is related to the strength of their designs, their heritage and their price points. As relating to the OP's question, however, my definition of "brand value" is probably against the current.


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## ryanmanyes (Oct 21, 2013)

Very well said


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## inhaus (Jul 30, 2014)

On topic comment: As people have stated I think Tag has more respect with people who don't know watches. I wouldn't say Longines has more respect than tag in the watch community, but I will say they have little to no negative things being said about them... Tag cannot say the same, I personally do not like tag and I'm not alone. Longines is a better bang for the buck IMO. So do you want brand prestige meaning in name and reputation only or do you want a better built watch dollar for dollar? Another question to consider is, how much does the enjoyment of ownership depend on how others perceive your watch? Personally I'm not ashamed to say it matters. There are plenty of brands that make excellent products that look great on wrist and I will still spend more to get a brand that I feel carries more prestige in name and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I just wouldn't be happy wearing an xyz brand when I really want an abc, not for others to see it on me but for me to know it's there, but again that's just me and something to think about.

Off topic comment: This tag ad with leo holding the watch like that finally gives me a reason to buy an Invicta. Held like that an Invicta could double as brass knuckles  Someone please photoshop that one in for me 



Toothbras said:


> Ask yourself this: is a Longines versatile enough to be worn like this? No, no it is not


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

I think TAG also used that ad agency.


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## Analyticalman (Feb 20, 2013)

I understand that Tag get a lot of hate but I think they do some refined styles too. The picture is of my Tag & one of my Longines. You probably get a bit more for your money with Longines - that Tag was more expensive but seems to be of similar quality. As others have said - buy the one you like - no-one will ever notice anyway!


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## Kluber (Aug 9, 2014)

inhaus said:


> On topic comment: As people have stated I think Tag has more respect with people who don't know watches. I wouldn't say Longines has more respect than tag in the watch community, but I will say they have little to no negative things being said about them... Tag cannot say the same, I personally do not like tag and I'm not alone. Longines is a better bang for the buck IMO. So do you want brand prestige meaning in name and reputation only or do you want a better built watch dollar for dollar? Another question to consider is, how much does the enjoyment of ownership depend on how others perceive your watch? Personally I'm not ashamed to say it matters. There are plenty of brands that make excellent products that look great on wrist and I will still spend more to get a brand that I feel carries more prestige in name and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I just wouldn't be happy wearing an xyz brand when I really want an abc, not for others to see it on me but for me to know it's there, but again that's just me and something to think about.


To me this is where this thread is the most interesting for a watch collecting / buying discussion. I frankly don't really have much interest in which watch (Tag v. Longines) most think is a "better" value since it is very subjective between the two, nearly equal in quality, watch brands.

However, I find the prestige factor an interesting discussion point. I agree with inhaus here. Perhaps, I'm less ideal than others, but I think personal opinion on prestige plays a role in most watch purchasing - even **gasp** among the WIS crowd. I'm definitely in that group. Maybe not to impress others, inasmuch as wanting a certain brand on my own wrist.

There is a lot of "forget the brand perception and buy what you like" & "brands don't matter to me, I just buy what I prefer on my wrist" comments on WUS. I don't doubt that some of these are truly genuine. But for as common as such quotes are, I tend to think that we (collectively) like to ignore how a watch brand's prestige factors into our watch choices, and at least for me, this isn't quite as true as sometimes suggested. Then again, maybe I'm just more shallow than most. Just my own thoughts & two cents.


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## inhaus (Jul 30, 2014)

Not more shallow, just more honest... brand matters, prestige matters, if it didn't then all the high end brands would be selling is fit and finish and they wouldn't be able to charge what they do. Seiko would have put them all out of business for having excellent fit and finish for a fraction of the price. Yet here we are on wus hearing people say "but... it's a seiko" time and time again while only a percentage of us will pay a lot for GS watches. Not because the GS is a sub par watch, it is excellent, but just because well... it's a seiko.



Kluber said:


> To me this is where this thread is the most interesting for a watch collecting / buying discussion. I frankly don't really have much interest in which watch (Tag v. Longines) most think is a "better" value since it is very subjective between the two, nearly equal in quality, watch brands.
> 
> However, I find the prestige factor an interesting discussion point. I agree with inhaus here. Perhaps, I'm less ideal than others, but I think personal opinion on prestige plays a role in most watch purchasing - even **gasp** among the WIS crowd. I'm definitely in that group. Maybe not to impress others, inasmuch as wanting a certain brand on my own wrist.
> 
> There is a lot of "forget the brand perception and buy what you like" & "brands don't matter to me, I just buy what I prefer on my wrist" comments on WUS. I don't doubt that some of these are truly genuine. But for as common as such quotes are, I tend to think that we (collectively) like to ignore how a watch brand's prestige factors into our watch choices, and at least for me, this isn't quite as true as sometimes suggested. Then again, maybe I'm just more shallow than most. Just my own thoughts & two cents.


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## *El Ocho 1* (Jan 7, 2009)

The picture of Leo reminded me of a funny story that happened to us at the beginning of this year.

We took a cruise over New Years & it stopped at Fallmouth, Jamaica. We spent the whole day just looking at watches there in the shops at the port. I was planning on getting a Speedy Pro, but I didn't (got my Speedy a few months later for a fraction of what they were asking for there, but that's a different story)....Anyways, My wife had seen a Longines on the ship that she liked. Now, my wife is the farthest from an impulse shopper there is, so we looked around for similar watches to see if there was something she liked more....They had that same Longines in one of the port shops for about $300 less than on the ship. We also looked at some RW's & TAG's. While the TAG was more or less about the same quality, fit & finish, it was costing almost $1500 more that the Longines. I think the Longines even had more diamonds.....But the real funny part was that while we were looking at the TAG & the salesman is trying to get us to buy it he decides to throw out "And also, that's the Cameron Diaz watch!" & points to a big poster of Cameron & that watch......to which both my wife & I looked up from the watch, looked at each other, looked back at the sales rep & just busted out laughing.

We don't care what watch Cameron, Leo or anyone else wears!! I care about what watch I'm going to be wearing.

oh & we bought the Longines & she absolutely loves it!


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## inhaus (Jul 30, 2014)

i was just on a cruise that stopped in falmouth a couple weeks ago, took a bunch of great watch pics on that trip hopefully i can find time to post them today. good story glad you both found nice watches you like.


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## AAMC (May 25, 2011)

*El Ocho 1* said:


> The picture of Leo reminded me of a funny story that happened to us at the beginning of this year.
> 
> We took a cruise over New Years & it stopped at Fallmouth, Jamaica. We spent the whole day just looking at watches there in the shops at the port. I was planning on getting a Speedy Pro, but I didn't (got my Speedy a few months later for a fraction of what they were asking for there, but that's a different story)....Anyways, My wife had seen a Longines on the ship that she liked. Now, my wife is the farthest from an impulse shopper there is, so we looked around for similar watches to see if there was something she liked more....They had that same Longines in one of the port shops for about $300 less than on the ship. We also looked at some RW's & TAG's. While the TAG was more or less about the same quality, fit & finish, it was costing almost $1500 more that the Longines. I think the Longines even had more diamonds.....But the real funny part was that while we were looking at the TAG & the salesman is trying to get us to buy it he decides to throw out "And also, that's the Cameron Diaz watch!" & points to a big poster of Cameron & that watch......to which both my wife & I looked up from the watch, looked at each other, looked back at the sales rep & just busted out laughing.
> 
> ...


My wife has the Longines Saint Imier


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## ssultan (Mar 21, 2011)

Tag has street cred. Longines is a fantastic company with some gorgeous watches that are known mostly to WIS. I've owned and loved pieces from both.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

The masses will tend to say "ooh he's wearing a TAG" whereas you'll probably get more kudos on a forum like this owning a Longines. You should go for the watch that impresses you rather than choosing one that you think other folks might like.


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## little big feather (Mar 6, 2013)

OOh.OOh,ooh...I've been watching and reading this thread, decided to comment.
I've owned both(Heuer, b/4 Tag) and a Longines, both very good watches.
I think Longines is a better buy,quality maybe a step above on the models I've looked at.


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## madhavi (Aug 10, 2014)

I read all the responses to my post. Thank you all for the valuable input!


I was not expecting to see so much hate (probably not the apt word) towards Tag. That doesn't do anything to strengthen my original "Tag is a notch higher" theory 


I saw saw few posts saying " buy what feels right on your wrists...", with all due respect, that would be a $200 Seiko. Already have them. Not ashamed to say that now I want a more widely respected watch/brand which while looking good on my wrist has a more positive brand recognition. It is not about showing off. I think it is mostly (not all) about the joy of acquiring brands/stuff that is valued by peer group. IMHO one has to be a hypocrite to be active in this group and say that he/she doesn't care about brands. Brands have value. Otherwise the world would look a lot different.


Anyway, I am leaning towards Longines now. Among other things, I realise that in my budget range, Longines offers better value and I really like some of their models. My concern at the time of my original post was that if I had spent $2800 on a Longines whether the WUS crowd would go "for that price, you could have bought a better brand like TAG?". And Tag does have some models I like around that price. Everything else being equal, I prefer Longines aesthetics over Tag. Wanted to see how these brands were perceived by the WUS crowd.


Thank you!


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## *El Ocho 1* (Jan 7, 2009)

you wont go wrong with Longines. As I said, I have 2 (3 if you count my wife's) & still would like 2 more.


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## TobusRex (Apr 18, 2014)

madhavi said:


> I like some of the models from both brands. They are different styles altogether but both have models I like in different ways. At about $2,500 to $3,500 ( grey market), they are not cheap for me. I want to make sure that if I am investing that kind of money, brand value should also be considered as a factor in decision making.
> 
> I am a novice and from what I have gathered so far, I kind of get the feeling that Tag is at least a notch higher than Longines.
> 
> ...


I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that watches would be a very poor investment, if that is why you are buying them. If you are acquiring them for other reasons such as appreciation of the watches function and beauty that is certainly another story. I will never sell any of my watches.


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## TobusRex (Apr 18, 2014)

madhavi said:


> I saw saw few posts saying " buy what feels right on your wrists...", with all due respect, that would be a $200 Seiko. Already have them. Not ashamed to say that now *I want a more widely respected watch/brand* which while looking good on my wrist has a more positive brand recognition.


There is no more respected watch brand than Seiko my friend except for possibly Citizen (I consider them equal). I don't have one, but I WILL acquire a Seiko in due course and I'm even considering, horror of horrors, a Seiko Monster (an automatic for goodness sake!!). Perhaps when it comes to fashion value...well, Seiko may fall short of the high end jewelry watches.


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

AAMC said:


> My wife has the Longines Saint Imier


So do we address you as Mr. Winslet?


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

TobusRex said:


> There is no more respected watch brand than Seiko my friend except for possibly Citizen (I consider them equal).


That's REALLY pushing it. Seiko makes fantastic watches from the 5s to the Credor Sonnerie but the WIS world still has Patek, and Vacheran, and Lange, and... you get the picture. And in the non-WIS world pretty much any watch with Swiss Made will be given more respect than Seiko even if they are a Chinese catalog mushroom brand. Seiko is great but there are a limited number of people even in the WIS world that put them at the top of the pyramid.


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## AAMC (May 25, 2011)

ilitig8 said:


> So do we address you as Mr. Winslet?


Hehehe...not so fast

Just posted Kate's pic to illustrates that Longines also has "ambassadors"...

Maybe would not be the general consensus but my wife looks a bit better than Kate


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

AAMC said:


> Just posted Kate's pic to illustrates that Longines also has "ambassadors"...
> 
> Maybe would not be the general consensus but my wife looks a bit better than Kate


You are correct and Longines has a lot of ambassadors, heavily Asian and European, including the Chinese Men's gymnastics team. In the end most of us live in countries where Longines' ambassadors won't be plastered everywhere compared to Tag who tends to have a higher caliber (see what I did there) of ambassadors from the Western world, I don't know how Longines "rate" in their countries. Heck Tags uses Einstein, Jimi Hendrix and Steve McQueen to sell watches, if even really smart, really talented and really, well just cool DEAD people love Tag why in the world wouldn't I want one.

Ambassadors don't bother me, all brands that sell in volume enough to afford them use them, some just use more recognizable ones. While most WIS are less influenced by ambassadors watch brands don't make money on the WIS they make it off the general public, well except for the Dufours of the watch world.

Edit: forgot to add, AAMC even if everyone in the world would not agree, the fact you think that makes you a VERY lucky man indeed, and your wife lucky that she has a husband who thinks that!!! We all should be so lucky in how our spouse perceives us.


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## AAMC (May 25, 2011)

ilitig8 said:


> You are correct and Longines has a lot of ambassadors, heavily Asian and European, including the Chinese Men's gymnastics team. In the end most of us live in countries where Longines' ambassadors won't be plastered everywhere compared to Tag who tends to have a higher caliber (see what I did there) of ambassadors from the Western world, I don't know how Longines "rate" in their countries. Heck Tags uses Einstein, Jimi Hendrix and Steve McQueen to sell watches, if even really smart, really talented and really, well just cool DEAD people love Tag why in the world wouldn't I want one.
> 
> Ambassadors don't bother me, all brands that sell in volume enough to afford them use them, some just use more recognizable ones. While most WIS are less influenced by ambassadors watch brands don't make money on the WIS they make it off the general public, well except for the Dufours of the watch world.
> 
> Edit: forgot to add, AAMC even if everyone in the world would not agree, the fact you think that makes you a VERY lucky man indeed, and your wife lucky that she has a husband who thinks that!!! We all should be so lucky in how our spouse perceives us.


Yep...don't know how is the ranking now but 2/3 years ago Longines was the #1 brand in China


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## TobusRex (Apr 18, 2014)

ilitig8 said:


> That's REALLY pushing it. Seiko makes fantastic watches from the 5s to the Credor Sonnerie but the WIS world still has Patek, and Vacheran, and Lange, and... you get the picture. And in the non-WIS world pretty much any watch with Swiss Made will be given more respect than Seiko even if they are a Chinese catalog mushroom brand. Seiko is great but there are a limited number of people even in the WIS world that put them at the top of the pyramid.


You are right, of course. However I think all lovers of quality timepieces would place Seiko and Citizen on a very high pedestal. I think they are, by a wide margin, the best watch companies in existence. On the other hand I also have a ridiculous degree of fondness for Timex, which most people here seem to despise. I have a Timex Expedition that I set to the atomic clock 3 years ago that is only off by 35 seconds now! Can't complain about that


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

madhavi said:


> I like some of the models from both brands. They are different styles altogether but both have models I like in different ways. At about $2,500 to $3,500 ( grey market), they are not cheap for me. I want to make sure that if I am investing that kind of money, brand value should also be considered as a factor in decision making.
> 
> *I am a novice* and from what I have gathered so far, I kind of get the feeling that Tag is at least a notch higher than Longines.
> 
> ...


There must be some cabal that decides to keep bringing up one or two brands each week or two. It seems Tag and Longines have been appearing in threads quite a bit over the past two weeks or so. I wonder what it'll be a few weeks from now. LOL

Because you say you are a novice, I'll make this as plain as possible: evaluate and buy the watch that most appeals to you and ignore the brand. Tag and Longines both make very good quality watches and neither offers low quality watches. Brand value matters if one seeks to buy a company or the exclusive rights to a brand name/trademark. You are clearly not seeking to buy either.

Serious collectors won't think a damn thing about your or your watch solely on the basis of what brand it is, be it a Tag or Longines. They may think something about the specific watch itself based on the specific attributes pertaining to it.

There are certainly individual watches in your price range that will have more appeal to collectors -- collectors who are not specifically Tag or Longines watch collectors -- than do any recent versions of Tag or Longines watches in that price range. Some of them, such as any Nomos model, Aquadive's Bathysphere 500 Fleurier, several Omega models, and others, are current models. Some of them will be vintage models. As you are a novice, I'd suggest you not go the vintage route without doing a ton of research, which upon completing, you wouldn't really be a novice any longer; moreover, you'd have discovered that brand value is irrelevant.

Among non-collectors, the merit of whatever Tag or Longines you end up with probably will be driven by their perception of brand value. That will result from one or more of several things:

their own (uniformed) sense of the reputation of each brand for producing quality products
how many folks they know who have one or the other make of watch and what they think of those individuals
their lack of knowledge about specific watches
 But as non-collectors, what they think of your watch is also irrelevant. Would you care what a pauper's opinion is of your investment choices? If not, why would care what non-collectors think of your watch or watch's maker?

Consider the following watches, each of which will run you ~$3500. All three are major name brands.

Hamilton Piping Rock, 1930s vintage:


































Longines Conquest Chronograph









Tag Grand Carrera









Vacheeron Constantin 1940s gold watch










IWC 1940s 14kt gold watch




























Hamilton Rutledge platinum watch, ca 1930s



















Just as a point of reference, $125 in 1939, adjusted for inflation would be ~$2100 today. So it's pretty clear that the first Hamilton has gone up in value. How long did it take to do so? I have no idea. What I do know is that it'll be a long time before any Hamilton made today shows a similar degree of appreciation.

Longines and Hamilton used to be in the "big leagues" as far as the nature of the watches they produced. These days both are merely makers of good watches that can be relied upon and won't give their owners hassles or disappointment functionally. The same was so "back in the day." What does that say about brand value? Litlle to nothing, which is why you should foculs on the watch, not the brand.

All the best.

What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing. It also depends on what sort of person you are.
― C.S. Lewis, _The Magician's Nephew _


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

madhavi said:


> Everything else being equal, I prefer Longines aesthetics over Tag.


You have your answer right there. Enjoying what you see on your wrist is far more important than subjective brand ratings from a bunch of forum members. Both brands make quality watches that will serve you well for a very long time if maintained properly. If you were to seek some _potentially_ less subjective advice you might consider starting a thread requesting technical advise comparing your favourite model from each brand.


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## superhill (Feb 22, 2013)

I prefer Longines here as well. One question, why the grey market? You can typically get AD's down on price and be competitive on price with the grey market?


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

I still have no idea what watches the op is looking at.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

TobusRex said:


> You are right, of course. However I think all lovers of quality timepieces would place Seiko and Citizen on a very high pedestal.


Going with ilitig8 here --

I spoke with a watch salesman for a while at a jeweler that carried Seiko, Raymond Weil, and Rolex. He's been selling watches for darned near forty years. We were looking at the Seikos that they had on hand, and I mentioned Grand Seiko. He said that while they are indeed great watches, there's no way he can sell them alongside Rolex. He said that people who want to spend money go to the Rolex case and would never take a four-figure Seiko seriously.

Don't forget that us watch nerds are quite a minority. Most other people who buy watches aren't looking for the same things we are.


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## Zeroedout (Jul 25, 2014)

I think there's an interesting conversation playing out within this thread. 

On the one hand, you have those of us who admit that "brand perception" does play an integral role in the decision making process. 

Others seem to be asserting that such consideration is, at best, a futile endeavor; at worst, perhaps a reflection of questionable character. 

I'll submit the following question: Taking resale value out of the equation, would you pay the same price for a Rolex (substitute any "grail" here) with absolutely no markings identifying it as a Rolex? In other words, if all who saw it could never truly know it was a Rolex, would you still derive the same pleasure when wearing it?

I believe there are certainly people who would. But if the answer is yes, does it then carry over to other areas of your life? Would you be fine taking the AMG badge off the Benz, so that it looked like everyone else's? The Nike swish off the shoes? The little Ray Ban logo off the shades? I'm sure many people are truly fine with brand anonymity, but if the ideal is compromised (or compensated for) in other areas, I believe the position to be hypocritical. 

Personally, I doubt I'll ever be a "serious collector". For now, I occasionally like to treat myself to a watch that makes a small statement. If that statement is a simple "hey, I worked hard to achieve something and I'm proud enough to show off my reward"..... well...... I don't see anything inherently wrong in that. 

And that's where "brand value" (in regard to perception) comes into play. Because if I choose to make a statement, even a very small self-congratulatory one....I'd prefer that it actually be heard. 

Again, I simply think that it's a legitimate question for some of us.


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

Zeroedout said:


> And that's where "brand value" (in regard to perception) comes into play. Because if I choose to make a statement, even a very small self-congratulatory one....I'd prefer that it actually be heard.


But heard by who? Brand perception is subjective and varies depending on the audience and the individual. If the OP does indeed want to make a statement to the general public then perhaps Tag is the better choice. Or maybe even an Invicta since their marketing seems to be extremely successful and Joe Public no doubt knows of the wonderful Swiss made Invictas but may not have even heard of Longines. But since he's asking for WUS members views we can assume that he feels that members may have a better understanding of how brand perception actually relates to the quality of the product. In that sense and in this case I believe that it has very little bearing on relative quality and at their repsective price points both brands produce quality watches that will perform equally and last for many years. The OP would be far better served to focus on preferred design and technical elements. We can be of no assistance in that regard because we don't know the models that he is considering.


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## madhavi (Aug 10, 2014)

Good point and I tend to agree with you Zeroedout.

We all want to make statements of achievement or whatever at various stages in life. Some chose watches, some chose cars, some chose planes, some lucky ones chose all of the above. And often the brand chosen (within a price band) to make the statement reflects the personality of the person who made that decision. For example, I would never ever buy a Rolex even if I had the means to buy them. But I would love to buy a good Omega AT at some point in the future when I can afford it. This is not to mean that Rolex is technically or otherwise inferior in any way to Omega. No. It is just that the Rolex brand image is not what I feel comfortable with to make a statement and that's just me. Now, my intention here is not to take this to a Rolex Vs Omega thread but just to make the point that people do make statements while choosing a brand and that often reflects their personality.


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## madhavi (Aug 10, 2014)

GlennO said:


> But heard by who? Brand perception is subjective and varies depending on the audience and the individual. If the OP does indeed want to make a statement to the general public then perhaps Tag is the better choice. Or maybe even an Invicta since their marketing seems to be extremely successful and Joe Public no doubt knows of the wonderful Swiss made Invictas but may not have even heard of Longines. But since he's asking for WUS members views we can assume that he feels that members may have a better understanding of how brand perception actually relates to the quality of the product. In that sense and in this case I believe that it has very little bearing on relative quality and at their repsective price points both brands produce quality watches that will perform equally and last for many years. The OP would be far better served to focus on preferred design and technical elements. We can be of no assistance in that regard because we don't know the models that he is considering.


Thank you sir.

I am looking for an Automatic watch. 42mm (approx). Leather strap only.

I liked the classy/dressy looks of Longines Master Collection. In a different way, I also liked the sporty looks of some of the Grand Carrera (with leather straps) from Tag. That's where I was. Now, I am almost sure of what I want to do - Masters from Longines. White with subdials. The dial has nice engraving on it. Looks like nice finish for the price.

Thank you you all for your inputs.


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

There are many different models within both the Master Collection and Grand Carrera lines so we still can't compare directly. But in any case, you seem to have a preference for the Longines. The Master Collection models are very popular and any of them would make a fine choice.


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## Zeroedout (Jul 25, 2014)

Glenno, I agree with what you said (particularly in regard to the original post). I guess my point is directed more at the notion that "brand perception" is never a valuable consideration. I'm not saying it should be the only consideration, or even a top priority. I just think that for some, it's an honest question that can be answered to some degree and used when considering the big picture. It's really not about whether the answer is right or wrong; the answer itself validates the question. Hopefully that makes some sense.


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

Yes I imagine that there are very few who could honestly say that brand perception is not a consideration for them at all.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Zeroedout said:


> I think there's an interesting conversation playing out within this thread.
> 
> On the one hand, you have those of us who admit that "brand perception" does play an integral role in the decision making process.
> 
> ...


A doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress.
― Albert Einstein

General:
My answer to all your questions is "yes."

It absolutely has to be "yes" because aside from my watches, boat and cars, nobody except others who have the exact same items would have the first idea of anything about most of my personal belongings. The most obvious examples are my custom made shoes, suits and shirts, but even the OTR stuff I wear has the label on the inside, so nobody is going to know who made/designed it or what I paid for those items either. In fact, I'm pretty sure that few folks would know anything more about most of the clothes I wear even if I told them what company made them.

Do you think Loro Piana or Paul & Shark, for example, are makers who are familiar to most folks? Some folks may be perceptive enough for example to notice that the feel of my teflon coated P&S sweaters differs from that they most commonly encounter, but that's about all they'd know. Were they to compliment me on the look of an item, I'd thank them, but I don't have a reason to tell them who made it unless they ask specifically, so I don't.

Nobody knows what the "four cees" are that correspond to the quality of the diamond I gave my ex wife as an engagement ring, much less who made it. Nobody has ever asked me who the architect of my home is/was.

Red:
I think you are right to want your statements that are relevant to others should be heard by your target audience. I don' think there's anything wrong or strange about that.

Blue:
It's fine to pat oneself on the back, but who else needs to hear that assertion of pride or praise? I believe the answer is "nobody else." So, as one bought the item oneself to congratulate oneself, it stands to reason that one also is well aware of the fineness of the item; thus the brand name on the outside and that is plainly visible to others isn't necessary. I've certainly bought various things to treat or congratulate myself. I, my family and my closest, lifelong friends know I live a pretty indulgent lifestyle, but outside of that small group, the nature and extent of my indulgence is, as I've said before, my private conceit.

In contrast, it is absolutely necessary for the maker of one's possessions to be known and recognizable to others if self aggrandizement is the aim of the statement one seeks to make.

Other:
The whole matter of brand recognition differs with watches than it does with other personal effects because the brand name of a watch is plainly emblazoned on the dial and it's customary that the makers put their name on the dial. I can speculate as to why it became customary for the maker's name/logo to appear visibly on the face of a watch, but I don't know specifically why beyond the obvious purpose of brand promotion. I do know there was a time when watches didn't always have the maker's name on the face.

Breguet, ca. 1814









Source: Christie's - The Most Important Breguet Watch To Come | Industry News | WorldTempus

Patek Philippe, ca. 1702 and 1869, respectively















Sources: 

PATEK PHILIPPE. AN 18K GOLD OPENFACE KEYLESS LEVER POCKET WATCH | SIGNED PATEK PHILIPPE, & CO, GENEVA, MADE FOR PALMER BACHELDERS & CO., BOSTON, NO. 41727, CIRCA 1872 | Watches & Wristwatches Auction | late 19th Century, mechanical | Christie's 
Patek Philippe 18ct gold hunter pocket watch - c1869 | Tempus Suisse 

What event or trend specifically spurred the ubiquitous appearance of maker names on the dial, I don't know. I only know that in 1810, one could buy a Breguet, and presumably others, watch that did have the maker's name on the front.









Source: Master Horologer: Breguet -Horn & Silver Pair Cased Antique Pocket Watch, Verge Fusee Movement, Circa 1810

Who among us would prefer that every article of clothing one could buy have the maker's name or logo permanently displayed on the exterior of the garment? Would anyone prefer that the designer of their furniture place their name/logo in plain sight on the item? I know I wouldn't.

Lastly, questions such as those you raised necessarily lead down the road of brand status and how people think of it. Overwhelmingly, most consumers misunderstand brand status and brand value. Brand status is something that accrues to the owner of the brand, not to the owner of the items bearing that brand name. Construing the matter any other way is a mistake and the fact that many people feel it works the opposite direction merely means there are a lot of mistaken people walking the planet. Why?

Consider this.Let's say you go into business making watches. You value the craft of watchmaking and so you make them in the tradition of the great masters, beveling edges, painstakingly applying all manners of polishes and other treatments, carefully sculpting gears and other parts so they interact very precisely, and so on. You in turn charge a high price for your watches to reflect the extent to which you feel you should be fairly compensated for your efforts. Additionally, you make some watches buy purchasing movement, crystals, cases, etc. from various suppliers, you tweak them as you deem appropriate, and charge a high price, but less high than you do for the ones you made with your own hands.

How much status does your watch have on your first day in business? Not much if any at all, correct? People will most likely assert that your watches are overpriced and as nobody has heard of your watch, few will actually buy them. You are a struggling watchmaker, but you are hanging in there and your wife is keeping a roof over your head, your back clothed, feet shod, and food on your table.

Next you meet (by happenstance or with intent) a well funded backer who is also well connected in the industry. Your newly found funding affords you the opportunity to give a copy of one of your watches to one or more celebrities: kings, queens, presidents, actors, politicians, business tycoons, etc. Then one or more of those folks are seen to be wearing your watch. You give one also to a highly regarded watchmaker like Roger Smith or P. Dufour who is generally unknown by the general public, get them to say something nice about it and make sure a watch reviewer like Ariel Adams repeats their statement along with providing his own nice words.
​Now what is your reputation and brand value? It has surely increased. Why? Because of the status and high regard in which the public hold the people who have been seen to wear your watch has transferred in part to you and your watches. Next thing you know, other watchies buy your watch and wear it. Their similarly well heeled friends, family and associates see them wearing it and buy one too. Why? Because the watchie's friends know their watch collecting friend wouldn't buy a tawdry watch. The watchie's reputation for being particular has again transferred to you and your watches.
​ With each bump in your brand's status, it happened because your customers' status transferred to you. They may have been wearing your watch, but their own personal status hasn't increased. Only yours as the maker of the watch has. Moreover, what's unknown to the early adopters who paid for your watch is that the first high status individuals who were seen wearing your watch didn't spend their own money to buy it. I don't know about you, but I could find all sort of nice things to say about a genuinely nice item that's given to me, and I'd certainly wear/use it at least some of the time.

When someone asks me, "Would you prefer a Rolex or a JLC?" I respond by asking, "Which models are you asking about." I cannot offer a sensible reply on the basis of brand alone. If I'm asked, "Do you think I should buy a Tag or a Timex?" My response will be, "It depends. What do you want to use it for and what are your expectations?" Even between two clearly different brands, one can't use brand name to make the choice. If someone asks, "How much should I pay for the rights to the Rolex brand name?" I can answer that question on the basis of what I think and (hopefully for the inquirer) measured re: the brand name itself.

Hopefully the preceding story makes clear why in my first post in this thread I said that the notion of a brand's value being relevant to the purchase of an individual watch is sophistic. It's not lost on me to understand why people may think it important, but is is beyond my comprehension why folks don't see the house of cards on which they spend their money when they do in fact chose based on their perception of a brand's value.

All the best.

As long as a person is involved with warfare, trying to defend or attack, then his action is not sacred; it is mundane, dualistic, a battlefield situation.
― Chögyam Trungpa, _Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism _


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## faiz (Jul 15, 2013)

Longines makes beautiful women's watches.

I wanted to buy my wife this;










But in the end I bought her this beautiful Nomos so that we'd both have the same brand;










I think both brands have their pluses and minuses.
For example I think this Tag is one of the most beautiful chronos recently available;










What a beauty!
Unfortunately it was a limited edition and it far surpasses the rest of their lines.

Then Longines also have some gorgeous pieces;










I was minutes away from buying this before I saw a 60's 300 SM in the window.
But again, do a search and there are various bad stories about this watch with indices not lining up, hands jamming etc.

Either way they're both ok brands, there aren't many of their watches that I'd buy tbh.

I think there are other brands that are coming up that will surpass these whilst remaining in similar price brackets.
Case in point, Nomos and Maurice Lacroix.
I see both those brands rising fairly quickly whilst Tag and Longines don't seem to be particularly moving at all.
Understandable with Longines as it's pegged in place thanks to Swatch but Tag has the potential to move but their designs are weak in general.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Finally, some actual watch references. 

I'd get a Longines Master before I would a Grand Carrera and that has nothing to do with the brand.
The Grand Carrera has higher production value but all that additional glitz and detail means nothing because I don't like the case as much as I do the Longines Master.

My picks would be the Worldtimer or Power Reserve.

Incidentally, I have Raybans without the logo on the lens.


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## Jumpingjalapeno (Sep 22, 2014)

I would consider both 'stepping up' brands for those who want something more than the quartz watch they have been used to. TAG is more recognisable to the man in the street and has younger/fresher designs. I happen to think their Carrera range is very pleasing to the eye. Longines, has real pedigree. It has the oldest registered trademark/logo still used in it's original state. Also, when Longines was acquired by the swatch group there was a toss up of whether it or omega would be it's 'prestige' brand (omega got the nod). I prefer the diversity go Longine across it's range, compared to Tag. 

My preference would be for Longines, the more you get into watches the more you will see they are seen more favourably amongst the WIS community.


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## Snupe (Oct 5, 2014)

A chunk of the price on tag goes towards advertising you get less than you pay for in the watch.


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## technologic (May 17, 2014)

Snupe said:


> A chunk of the price on tag goes towards advertising you get less than you pay for in the watch.


That reasoning isn't quite right. While it can be true, often advertising can generate enough sales volume that the cost per item is actually lower.


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## chez_gokingyok (Jan 8, 2013)

I only own a Longines watch and no TAGs, so I'll refrain from commenting on the latter. If you do decide to get a Longines, skip the conquest etc and go for the Master Collection and Heritage pieces with more than a date complication. They are pretty versatile and can be "casualized" with a strap change. Attaching pics of my worldtimer so you get my drift.














EDIT: within your budget if you look at secondary markets.


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## inhaus (Jul 30, 2014)

TobusRex said:


> You are right, of course. However I think all lovers of quality timepieces would place Seiko and Citizen on a very high pedestal. I think they are, by a wide margin, the best watch companies in existence. On the other hand I also have a ridiculous degree of fondness for Timex, which most people here seem to despise. I have a Timex Expedition that I set to the atomic clock 3 years ago that is only off by 35 seconds now! Can't complain about that


I hope you realize you are, by a wide margin, in the minority with that opinion  Seiko is great and does a good job of producing value in their price point but to say they are anywhere near the "best watch company in existence" is kind of bat **** crazy... Unless you are using a selective definition of "best" of course.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

technologic said:


> That reasoning isn't quite right. While it can be true, often advertising can generate enough sales volume that the cost per item is actually lower.


??? Hugh? That is quite simply impossible.

Out of pure curiosity, please share with me/us how exactly, in your mind, the cost of goods sold (COGS) can decrease as a result of sales volume increases?

Inventory costs, and thus COGS can be reduced due to the following:

Procurement cost savings/reductions granted by suppliers can reduce direct and indirect variable costs. 
Wage cuts reduce the cost of labor per unit. 
Production efficiency increases reduce the variable per unit cost of labor and material, be they direct or indirect. 
Production economies of scale creating lower fixed costs per unit as a function of overall increases in output. 
Sales revenue never reduces the cost of inventory or COGS.

The only way advertising can contribute to lower costs per unit is through advertising procurement savings, but those savings have nothing to do with the sales (volumes or revenues) generated by that advertising.

For more on cost accounting please see this:


http://www.csus.edu/indiv/p/pforsichh/documents/AbsorptionvVariableCostingVideoLecture.pdf
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/rosesr/ACC212/Lessons/CostAnalysis/Absorption_vs_Variable_Costing.pdf

All the best.


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## watchdaddy1 (Dec 2, 2009)

Between the 2 your referring to I'd go w/ Longines,but not for brand value, purely for aesthetics.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

inhaus said:


> I hope you realize you are, by a wide margin, in the minority with that opinion  Seiko is great and does a good job of producing value in their price point but to say they are anywhere near the "best watch company in existence" is kind of bat **** crazy... Unless you are using a selective definition of "best" of course.


I'd guess most people would just randomly say Rolex. Ignoring those who don't know anything but marketing on Rolex. Who else is ahead of Seiko? By a WIDE margin.


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## Arthur M (Nov 9, 2013)

DustinS said:


> I'd guess most people would just randomly say Rolex. Ignoring those who don't know anything but marketing on Rolex. Who else is ahead of Seiko? By a WIDE margin.


You need to specify your "the best". Desirability? Rolex and Patek. Popularity? Rolex and G-shock. Ubiquity? Rolex. Quality? A grand company including Patek, Vacheron, Lange, JLC and the like. Vintage market? Rolex, Patek, Omega, Tudor, among others. Prestige? The entire swiss industry. I don't know where Seiko ranks in the Grand Scheme of things, but I would be hard pressed to consider them the best at anything (barring very selective criteria) except at delivering a very compelling quality to price ratio in almost all their lines.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Arthur M said:


> You need to specify your "the best". Desirability? Rolex and Patek. Popularity? Rolex and G-shock. Ubiquity? Rolex. Quality? A grand company including Patek, Vacheron, Lange, JLC and the like. Vintage market? Rolex, Patek, Omega, Tudor, among others. Prestige? The entire swiss industry. I don't know where Seiko ranks in the Grand Scheme of things, but I would be hard pressed to consider them the best at anything (barring very selective criteria) except at delivering a very compelling quality to price ratio in almost all their lines.


interesting response.

I refuse to complement marketing people so lets ignore prestige. We'll ignore swiss as that's marketing and again we want to keep this polite. Popularity....back to marketing. Again lets keep this to who makes the best watches. I have no idea what a "Grand company" is but based on the list are you saying those are the top money makers? I think Seiko is more grand as a company.

Who has the production ability to make more watches than Seiko? Who can produce watches at as many price points and levels of quality? At a given price point who makes the better watches again give then make watches at nearly ALL price points.

As a watch maker being judge on the product and NOTHING else I can see an argument for someone else, but by a margin? Sorry there isn't a vastly better watch maker. Now how marketing sells the brand....you can go somewhere with that one, but I'm not going to play that game. That's the stuff high school girls talk about.


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

I had a Aquaracer and sold it in 2013, it brought pleasure to me but I cannot say a similarly priced Longine or any other brands wouldnt cuz I didnt have other watches at that price range. To be honest, I was not impressed quality wise but it doesnt mean Tag is not good for what its worth. I do not like Longine sure its purely subjective. What is not subjective is that Longine is much much more heavily advertised where i live. I cannot go into a shopping mall without seeing Longine Ambassodor.


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## dero (Nov 4, 2011)

Snupe said:


> A chunk of the price on tag goes towards advertising you get less than you pay for in the watch.


You have got to be kidding me right? Are you applying any shred of reasoning to any of this?

Your standard $2000-5000 range watch from any brand using 316/904L stainless steel, synthetic rubies, sapphire crystal and any number of small gubbins for the remainder of the kit won't cost anywhere near the price you are shelling out for them. These steels are purchased by the metric Ton. 1000kg. A quick Google for price per metric Ton throws in the cost in the vicinity of $1500-5500 per 1000kg depending on the type of steel sought. A watch in total weight is heavy even at 500g. Even at $5500/T, you're looking at $2.75 for 500g for material cost of the expensive steel. Synthetic ruby can be had for under $100/carat (0.2g) and I reckon each jewel in the movement would be 0.02 carat in weight at most so your high jewel movements of up to 40 jewels will be sitting at 0.8 carat. Synthetic sapphire crystal faces ranges in the vicinity of $100-150 purchase cost from a wholesaler. Add it all together, you're at most looking at $250 in material cost, and that is being very generous at the prices. These manufacturers are selling thousands of these watches so they can buy bulk and gain better pricing for bulk purchases. You could probably go and divide the ticket price by 10 and you might be closing in on the cost of materials to make the watch I reckon.

Even your highest grade PP/VC/AC running around on precious metals like platinum, rose gold, 18K gold the total cost for material parts would not be anywhere near the list price for what they are asking for the timepiece in the showroom.

A more realistic statement you can make is the majority of the chunk on the price tag for any luxury good goes towards the advertising for the product, the brand and/or the other companies sitting under the parent company's umbrella irrespective for which brand you purchase.


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

DustinS said:


> interesting response.
> 
> I refuse to complement marketing people so lets ignore prestige. We'll ignore swiss as that's marketing and again we want to keep this polite. Popularity....back to marketing. Again lets keep this to who makes the best watches. I have no idea what a "Grand company" is but based on the list are you saying those are the top money makers? I think Seiko is more grand as a company.
> 
> ...


This all boils down to the criteria with which people judge greatness. I could care less who builds more watches and most of the other criteria that has been mentioned in the discussion. When I dare to choose a manufacturer and proclaim them the greatest watch maker it will be because I see them as producing the best mechanical watches in the world. For me it will be a manufacturer who consistently turns out breathtaking haute hologerie pieces, this is something Seiko does not put much effort into. I don't care what an individual or company can do, only what they actually do. I have no doubt Seiko has the in-house ability to be a great haute hologerie house but they aren't. There are a number of criteria that Seiko is at or near the top of when it comes to watches but production of grand complication calibers isn't one of them, without that a watch company can never rate as great, or greatest given my criteria. You say you want to keep it to who makes the best watches, I suppose best needs defining also since that could be many things.


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## inhaus (Jul 30, 2014)

I don't think it's much of an opinion at all since we are voting with dollars to pay for these things. The maximum a number of people are willing to pay is that group of peoples value on that company/watch. TONS of people are willing to buy tags for not much, I doubt they sell any super expensive watches because not many people will pay for it. Lots of people will buy Grand Seiko, but not many will pay huge prices for it. Lots of people are lining up to buy Patek and A Lange for insanely high prices so much so that there is a shortage of inventory. Seiko's premium line doesn't sell for the highest prices and it doesn't sell the most volume, so it's not the best quantitatively on either field. Call it marketing but that is irrelevant, for whatever reason people are putting a much higher value on ALS JLC and PP and are willing to put their money where their mouth is.. I think it has less to do with marketing and more to do with the fact that A Lange & Sohne's are hand made by like 5-10 old watchmakers to standards unthinkable by most humans... But I'm sure seiko does the same thing right? I swear seikos must have some kind of crack in the bands because SOME seiko owners (not all) are getting more delusional by the day about where their watches stack up. Yes, you have a fine time piece that's value exceeds it's price point, but please come back down to earth and re join society as a productive member.


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

Arthur M said:


> I don't know where Seiko ranks in the Grand Scheme of things, but I would be hard pressed to consider them the best at anything (barring very selective criteria) except at delivering a very compelling quality to price ratio in almost all their lines.


I know we all have different criteria, but that's right up there for me. I don't give a dang about prestige, resale, popularity etc.


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## Jephen (Feb 14, 2014)

Snupe said:


> A chunk of the price on tag goes towards advertising you get less than you pay for in the watch.


A small chunk of the price on a Tag goes towards advertising. The larger chunk goes straight to the bank. As pure profit.

I feel Tag is akin to Rolex in some ways. Their folks understand the demand of their products over others and price at the upper limit of what people believe they should be worth.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

ilitig8 said:


> This all boils down to the criteria with which people judge greatness. I could care less who builds more watches and most of the other criteria that has been mentioned in the discussion. When I dare to choose a manufacturer and proclaim them the greatest watch maker it will be because I see them as producing the best mechanical watches in the world. For me it will be a manufacturer who consistently turns out breathtaking haute hologerie pieces, this is something Seiko does not put much effort into. I don't care what an individual or company can do, only what they actually do. I have no doubt Seiko has the in-house ability to be a great haute hologerie house but they aren't. There are a number of criteria that Seiko is at or near the top of when it comes to watches but production of grand complication calibers isn't one of them, without that a watch company can never rate as great, or greatest given my criteria. You say you want to keep it to who makes the best watches, I suppose best needs defining also since that could be many things.


I did quality best with at a given price point. I certainly agree that others can create far superior grand complications or at least consistently do. I'm not sure where you rank a minute repeater built on a spring drive. Or how do you look at the number of movements and innovation in the root movements that Seiko has done over their history. I should add I took issue only with the wide margin comment, not with the idea that a watch maker could be better than Seiko.


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

DustinS said:


> I did quality best with at a given price point. I certainly agree that others can create far superior grand complications or at least consistently do. I'm not sure where you rank a minute repeater built on a spring drive. Or how do you look at the number of movements and innovation in the root movements that Seiko has done over their history. I should add I took issue only with the wide margin comment, not with the idea that a watch maker could be better than Seiko.


Seiko, outside of the rare offering from Credor, is a price point brand and in that respect certainly is one of the best watch manufacturers in the world. As for the Credor sonnerie it is a great watch though it looses some allure to me due to the electrons flowing inside it. I have a lot of respect for Seiko but the seemingly ever increasing hyperbole associated with them seems misplaced.


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