# Top 5 Classic Pilot Watches



## whifferdill

Here's my own personal list of the top 5 most classic Pilot watches - what does everyone else think?

Omega Speedmaster Professional
Hanhart 1939 Fliegerchronograph
Rolex GMT Master
Tutima NATO Air Force Chronograph
Breitling Navitimer ( original version )

I don't own one of these yet, but they're on my radar! First one in my sights is the Speedy...

Funny, but the above list of _classic _pilot's watches are not the same as my _ultimate _pilot's watches from a practical point of view - these would be:

Breitling B1
Sinn 103 TiArUTC

Which I do own.

Interested to hear opinions on the subject ( depends on your classification of _classic _I suppose - mine is based on a mix of history linked to aviation / aviation watch development and iconic status, I think ).

Collection so far: _Fortis pp day/ date, Sinn 103TiArUTC, Breitling B1 SQ_


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## Pascal S

There are so many "Classic" pilot watches out there that it is near impossible to come up with a meaningful top 5. So while your list is in effect listing some of the most notable examples, one might argue that some equally obvious suspects have been left out.

Allow me to give you a few examples of my own:
Omega Flightmaster
Orfina Porsche Design military chronograph
Bréguet/Auricoste/Dodane/Airain/Vixa Type 20/21
Universal Polerouter
Heuer Bundeswehr chronograph
IWC Mark XII
Lemania single pusher chronograph


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## O2AFAC67

*Hi, whifferdill. Well, using your criteria...*



whifferdill said:


> Based on a mix of history linked to aviation / aviation watch development and iconic status...


I can't disagree with any of your choices. They're all fine aviation related timepieces. I especially agree with the choice of Speedy and Navi. That said, I'm really not qualified to judge other brands for this status becaue I've only owned the one brand and have no personal experience with the others. I do feel my entire collection is comprised of "pilot" (maybe "aviator" is a better term. Encompasses all aircrew.) watches, the B-1 like yours being the most functional for certain. Here are a couple of mine which I do consider to be "classic" aviator watches in most all aspects of the term...  
Cheers,
Ron





PS. If anyone doubts that the classic Navitimer is an aviation watch, ample proof is provided below.... ;-) :-d 
Cheers,
Ron


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## Pascal S

Pictures... now that's a good idea! ;-)

Here are the watches from my collection that I would define as "pilot watches:

*Tutima NATO military chronograph*










*Dodane Type 21 (ex-French Air Force)*










*Breitling Navitimer Quartz 2100 (ex-French Air Force)*










*Omega Speedmaster Professional*










*Omega Speedmaster Automatic 376.0822*










*Orfina Porsche Design Military Chronograph (ex-Bundeswehr)*










*Breitling Navitimer Chrono-Matic 1806 (ex-Iraqi Air Force)*










*DPW Chrono Pilot "Frecce Tricolori" & DPW Chrono Pilot "Aviazione Navale"*










*Breitling Cosmonaute*










*Eberhard Chrono Master "Frecce Tricolori"*










*Breitling Navitimer*










*Arctos Bund military chronograph (ex-Bundeswehr)*










*Fortis Official Cosmonauts Chronograph*










*Longines Hour Angle Watch (a.k.a. Lindbergh)*










*Revue Thommen Airspeed Ti*










*Lemania single pusher chronograph (ex-Fleet Air Arm, Royal Navy)*


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## 767Geoff

My two favourite choices:

Glcyine Chronograph Pumpkin SST ca 1968, dual time zone









Speedmaster Pro ca 1966 calibre 321, just because it is a classic:









Chronoquartz, easy time zone changes without affecting second setting and with chrono function









Glycine Original SST Pumpkin just because









Any Glycine airman style









\My modified Bullhead with "speedy dial"









The seiko world timers


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## Robertus

*I wouldn't forget IWC 3706 on bracelet (Fliegerchrono)*


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## BA1970

*Did somebody say GMT Master?*

1675?


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## mil

You have a great collection Pascal!
I would add an Omega X-33, which is for me the ultimate pilots' watch (see Ron Engels's post!) and now a classic.
I'm usually not fond of Breitling, but I like very much your Breitling 2100! What is the 0-170 scale?
Cheers
Eric


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## rolliges

*Re: Hi, whifferdill. Well, using your criteria...*



O2AFAC67 said:


> PS. If anyone doubts that the classic Navitimer is an aviation watch, ample proof is provided below.... ;-) :-d
> Cheers,
> Ron


Yep, that about sums it up! No thanks, I'll stick with the X-33.


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## Micha

*Here you go...*

1. Lange und Söhne B-Uhr,
2. IWC B-Uhr,
3. Stowa B-Uhr,
4. Laco B-Uhr,
5. Wempe B-Uhr. ;-) ;-)

No seriously:
1. B-Uhr (all 5 brands ;-))
2. Glashütte/Tutima/Hanhart Chronograph
3. Breguet Type XX
4. Breitling Navitimer
5. Cartier Santos (I'm amazed it wasn't mentioned yet).


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## whifferdill

*Re: Top 5 most classic reasoning......*



Micha said:


> 1. Lange und Söhne B-Uhr,
> 2. IWC B-Uhr,
> 3. Stowa B-Uhr,
> 4. Laco B-Uhr,
> 5. Wempe B-Uhr. ;-) ;-)
> 
> No seriously:
> 1. B-Uhr (all 5 brands ;-))
> 2. Glashütte/Tutima/Hanhart Chronograph
> 3. Breguet Type XX
> 4. Breitling Navitimer
> 5. Cartier Santos (I'm amazed it wasn't mentioned yet).


*Great suggestions Micha - love the 'original 5' - great and obvious collection aim for anyone interested in aviation watches. Below I'll try and set out the reasoning behind my choices.*

*Speedy Pro - *For obvious historical reasons, iconic status, great track record, timeless design and the fact it has remained virtually unchanged since its inception. Probably the most universal watch to appear on anyone's list ( funny when it wasn't even designed to be a 'pilot's' watch! )

*Hanhart Fliegerchrono'* - The first _real _pilot's flight chronograph produced with design elements that have set the standard for all subsequent watches of this ilk - laid the foundation to what has become the accepted 'classic' Pilot watch layout ( luminous arabic numerals and hands, stop second hand, chrongraph subdials and bi - directional rotating timer bezel ). Widely used throughout WWII. Original much sort after and very accurate relpica's still available.

*Tutima NATO* - An iconic 80's military AF Chrono with innovative 'snag hazard free' design and unique pushers - a true 'form out of function' watch if ever there was one. Designed to meet Armed Forces Contract and Standard Issue throughout NATO. Employs now hard to come by much loved Lemania movement with reputation for legibility and ruggedness and has not changed since being introduced.

*Rolex GMT Master* - Designed for Pan Am airline pilots at the dawn of the jet age and enjoying a quiet fame for being the preferred watch of many of the NASA Test Pilots of the 50's and 60's - perhaps cult status for the Pete knight record breaking flight and being worn by swaggert of Apollo 13 fame. Iconic 50's time piece with great geke knows only aviation connections!

*Breitling Navi'* - First chrono to feature a circular slide rule produced for an obvious niche market! has remained in production and unchanged since introduction in 1952 - original examples ( the 806 ) much sort after and represents innovative watch design. Claimed to be the oldest chrono' in production. Official AOPA watch that, rather than providing a practical everyday pilot's tool, perhaps represents the _spirit _of aviation better than any other pilot's watch.

So there's my reasons! Please feel free to disagree/ educate and share your own thoughts. Thankyou to all for taking the time to respond - an interesting ( to me ) subject and there are a few watches I will have to check out now as a result! Some great pictures too - wish i could post some - tried at work but file sizes were to big! - Will have to try again.

Thanks again - keep your opinions coming!


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## whifferdill

Pascal S said:


> There are so many "Classic" pilot watches out there that it is near impossible to come up with a meaningful top 5. So while your list is in effect listing some of the most notable examples, one might argue that some equally obvious suspects have been left out.
> 
> Allow me to give you a few examples of my own:
> 
> Omega Flightmaster
> Orfina Porsche Design military chronograph
> Bréguet/Auricoste/Dodane/Airain/Vixa Type 20/21
> Universal Polerouter
> Heuer Bundeswehr chronograph
> IWC Mark XII
> Lemania single pusher chronograph


Good points and great watches! Thanks.


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## whifferdill

*For 02AFAC67*

Fanatastic photos as per usual *O2AFAC67 - *It's your beautiful shots of the B1 that got me drooling over it in the first place while i was on the search for a modern ( and yes, quartz ) watch for work - it's even better in real life!


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## whifferdill

*Re: Here are the first 3 of my collection....*

Hi Flyinghell34

I have taken pictures of the B1 on Di - modell - but haven't figured a way of making the file sizes smaller. I'll get round to it!


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## msayewich

Pascal - wow thats one old flight computer. What type of flight ruler is that? Never seen one like that before.


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## pegase747

mil said:


> You have a great collection Pascal!
> I would add an Omega X-33, which is for me the ultimate pilots' watch (see Ron Engels's post!) and now a classic.
> I'm usually not fond of Breitling, but I like very much your Breitling 2100! What is the 0-170 scale?
> Cheers
> Eric


Hi Eric,

I see that you noticed this strange scale around the dial of the Navitimer 2100 from PascalS.
This scale is used as a guidance to the pilot for VFR/IFR flight ( VFR is Visual Flying Rules, IFR is Instruments Flying Rules ).
As you noticed it is graduated irregularly, from 35 to 190, and has alternating colors, but also on a compass scale represented by the North, East, West, South points.

This numbers represent an altitude, in term of FL ( i.e. FL40 is 4000 ft, FL120 is 12000ft ). 
they are colored white and yellow. I don't remember exactly which is which but one color represent an Altitude for VFR flights, and the other one represents an altitude for IFR fligths.

Basically it is used to allow enough altitude separation between 2 kinds of flying aircrafts ( VFR / IFR ) if they tend to go into the same direction, then they will be on different Flight levels, avoiding any air encounters between both airplanes.

Here is the same scale on the Breitling Intruder that I used to have. Mine was easier to read because of the compass bezel, instead of the divers.
You could directly relate the flight level to any heading.
Exemple on my ex-watch, if you fly heading 55, then you will be at FL 75 ( 7500ft ) and in the VFR or IFR, whichever corresponds to the WHITE scale.

I hope it is clear enough...( I am not a pilot.. ), Ron might be more clear for that !










Cheers / Pierre


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## Dennis Smith

I agree with Whifferdill's list except for one thing...

When looking for the top five pilot's watches, I think the Glycine Airman (in all its iterations over the years) would trump the Speedmaster.

The Speedy is a classic watch, but the Airman is more the classic pilot's watch...with a true 24 hour hand, 24 hour lockable bezel, date display, and truly global - jet-age design philosophy.


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## Sutto

Just to clarify the cruising altitudes thing.

These all apply to flight above 3,000 ft MSL.

When flying VFR, on a magnetic course of 0-179 degrees, you fly odd thousand altitudes plus 500 feet (3,500 ft, 5,500 ft, 7,500 ft, etc). Easiest way to remember is "odd people fly east".

When flying VFR, on a magnetic course of 180-359 degrees, you fly even thousand altitudes plus 500 feet (4,500 ft, 6,500 ft, 8,500 ft, etc).

When flying IFR, on a magnetic course of 0-179, you fly odd thousand altitudes.

When flying IFR, on a magnetic course of 180-359, you fly even thousand altitudes.

So when you look at the dial of that Intruder, the compass bezel doesn't dictate the exact altitude you have to fly. If you are flying on a heading of 055 degrees, VFR, you can fly at 3,500 or 5,500 or 7,500 or whatever.

Hopefully that clears it up for ya! :-!


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## whifferdill

*Re: Glycine Airman*



Dennis Smith said:


> I agree with Whifferdill's list except for one thing...
> 
> When looking for the top five pilot's watches, I think the Glycine Airman (in all its iterations over the years) would trump the Speedmaster.
> 
> Great point and suggestion - I admit I had overlooked the Glycine range completely - not out of ignorance to them, but simply because of a preference to styling and perhaps noteriety ( sp? ). The Glycine Airman is clearly a classic pilot's watch, but wouldn't sneek into my personal top 5. You are right in that it could trump the speedy in an _objective _analysis since it clearly *was *designed with pilots in mind. The Speedy became a pilot's watch retrospectively.
> 
> Perhaps we should argue out a definitive top five most _classic _pilot watches list? Could take a while, but would be fun! How about a specially compiled pole?
> 
> If one in my list had to go, to be replaced by the Glycine, I think it would be the Navi - though not sure.......


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## whifferdill

pegase747 said:


> Hi Eric,
> 
> I see that you noticed this strange scale around the dial of the Navitimer 2100 from PascalS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers / Pierre


VVery rare ( ? ) and interesting watch! Thanks for sharing - clearly an aviation niche watch with the FL Cruising Altitude scale. Problem is, it's different in Europe compared to N. America - America uses Semi Circular, Europe uses Quadrantal! Great watch though and showing early design elements of B1 and Aerospace. Keep em' coming!


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## brokali

I love the Sinn 356 Sa...


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## Ron Engels

767Geoff said:


> My two favourite choices:
> 
> Glcyine Chronograph Pumpkin SST ca 1968, dual time zone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speedmaster Pro ca 1966 calibre 321, just because it is a classic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chronoquartz, easy time zone changes without affecting second setting and with chrono function
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glycine Original SST Pumpkin just because
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any Glycine airman style
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \My modified Bullhead with "speedy dial"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The seiko world timers


Interesting collection! I would love to find me a nice Chrono-quartz someday.


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## Crusader

Ron Engels said:


> Interesting collection! I would love to find me a nice Chrono-quartz someday.


I recently purchased a Precista PRS-17-C from Eddie Platts / www.timefactors.com ... too bad you didn't disclose your interest earlier, or I would have brought the watch yesterday. :-(

Great little quartz chrono with a center-minute totalizer like on the Revue Thommen quartz watches. A future upgrade will include a 12h-bezel instead of the 60-minute bezel, and a black date disk.










http://www.timefactors.com/precista.htm


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## Ron Engels

Crusader said:


> I recently purchased a Precista PRS-17-C from Eddie Platts / www.timefactors.com ... too bad you didn't disclose your interest earlier, or I would have brought the watch yesterday. :-(
> 
> Great little quartz chrono with a center-minute totalizer like on the Revue Thommen quartz watches. A future upgrade will include a 12h-bezel instead of the 60-minute bezel, and a black date disk.


To be honest, I was referring to the Omega "Quartz-chrono", that I consider historically important more then anything else.
Having said that, I must also say that I really like the PRS-17-C. I love the case design, form and size, and the value for money is great too. 
It shows the attention to detail that we've come to expect from Eddie Platts. Although it would be a bit better still in my opinion, if only the chrono hands were yellow.
For good but often emotional reasons most of us prefer mechanical watches, but there is no denying that quartz has some big advantages too, and I will never discard a watch just because it's not mechanical. Sensible modifications by the way.
Congratulations on a very nice chrono. |>


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## Crusader

Ron Engels said:


> It shows the attention to detail that we've come to expect from Eddie Platts. Although it would be a bit better still in my opinion, if only the chrono hands were yellow.


My bad, I forgot to mention that the upgraded version will have a white seconds hand. Red would have been better than yellow, by the way, as the yellow chrono hands are a bit difficult to see over the white indices in low-light conditions. But excellent VFM, and all of a chronograph I need (I am more of a time-only watch kind of guy). ;-)


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## whifferdill

*Related Link - a great post by 'Crusader' some time back*

Aviation watch attributes/categories

relates to a selection of classic 'pilot's' watches:

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=67063

Thanks Crusader!


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## mil

pegase747 said:


> Hi Eric,
> 
> I see that you noticed this strange scale around the dial of the Navitimer 2100 from PascalS.
> This scale is used as a guidance to the pilot for VFR/IFR flight ( VFR is Visual Flying Rules, IFR is Instruments Flying Rules ).
> As you noticed it is graduated irregularly, from 35 to 190, and has alternating colors, but also on a compass scale represented by the North, East, West, South points.
> 
> This numbers represent an altitude, in term of FL ( i.e. FL40 is 4000 ft, FL120 is 12000ft ).
> they are colored white and yellow. I don't remember exactly which is which but one color represent an Altitude for VFR flights, and the other one represents an altitude for IFR fligths.
> 
> Basically it is used to allow enough altitude separation between 2 kinds of flying aircrafts ( VFR / IFR ) if they tend to go into the same direction, then they will be on different Flight levels, avoiding any air encounters between both airplanes.
> 
> Here is the same scale on the Breitling Intruder that I used to have. Mine was easier to read because of the compass bezel, instead of the divers.
> You could directly relate the flight level to any heading.
> Exemple on my ex-watch, if you fly heading 55, then you will be at FL 75 ( 7500ft ) and in the VFR or IFR, whichever corresponds to the WHITE scale.
> 
> I hope it is clear enough...( I am not a pilot.. ), Ron might be more clear for that !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers / Pierre


Thank you Pierre!
It makes me clear now and reminds me the lessons from VFR Glider's blue book! it's sure we don't use a lot these rules while flying a glider !
Cheers
Eric


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## Faide

Great pics and choices.

My choices would be (borrowing the great pics from this thread.) All credits to pic owners.

Omega Speedmaster Pro (i own one of these.)









Breitling Navi










Rolex GMT










Lemania Single Pusher









4. IWC Mark XI

5. IWC Big Pilot (or similar B-Uhr)

I think if i had this collection i would be very happy indeed.

_Faide


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## Elton Balch

Wow--this is a great thread!! I normally post over on the Omega forum but have recently acquired two IWC's (Mark XV Spitfire and 3717 Pilot Chron) which I've lusted over for some time. They compliment my Speedmaster and Rolex GMT Pepsi. If I were adding one more to make it five I would consider one of the RGM pilots which are made in Lancaster, PA. He makes a 43mm big pilot manual wind with display back that just looks fantastic! Here are mine--


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## Steppenwolf

Never without my Sinn 756S ;-) :


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## whifferdill

Steppenwolf said:


> Never without my Sinn 756S ;-) :


:-! Great watch and thanks for sharing - but what would you consider to be the five most classic aviation watches of all time?


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## Steppenwolf

whifferdill said:


> :-! ... what would you consider to be the five most classic aviation watches of all time?


Don´t know if my english is good enough to say what i mean. But i try.

There are lots of classic aviation watches, for me the most classic aviation watches are historical B-Uhren, for example from Stowa, Laco, Lange, IWC and Wempe. They look all kind of similar.

The design of the Sinn 756 is very classic for me, too. The watch is not historical, but the design of the dial is very similar to the design of instruments in old airplanes.

That´s why for me the Sinn is a very classic aviation watch and in my opinion it belongs to the five most classic aviation watches of all times.

I hope somebody can understand what i want to say. ;-)


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## Crusader

Fair enough, Christoph ... in my humble opinion (of course, as one of the Sinn Forum moderators, my opinion may be considered a bit biased ...), the Sinn 656/756/856 are future classics.


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## whifferdill

I hope somebody can understand what i want to say. ;-)[/quote]

i can understand perfectly ( I think! ). Your English is near perfect - I am just sorry I do not speak any other language well enough to post on any non - english forum. Some might say I struggle with english forums!

Anyway - thankyou for your post again. I agree that Sinn are arguably classic watch makers ( I have a 103 UTC model ); I was just interested in reading what a definitive list of absolute classic aviation watches might be from the members of this forum.

Sinn are setting high standards in terms of re - inventing classic aviation watch design with modern technology IMO, but have not been established long enough to have produced any 'all time ' classics. ( maybe the U1 - not an aviation piece! )

Keep em comin!:-!


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## whifferdill

whifferdill said:


> Here's my own personal list of the top 5 most classic Pilot watches - what does everyone else think?
> 
> Omega Speedmaster Professional
> Hanhart 1939 Fliegerchronograph
> Rolex GMT Master
> Tutima NATO Air Force Chronograph
> Breitling Navitimer ( original version )
> 
> I don't own one of these yet, but they're on my radar! First one in my sights is the Speedy...
> 
> Funny, but the above list of _classic _pilot's watches are not the same as my _ultimate _pilot's watches from a practical point of view - these would be:
> 
> Breitling B1
> Sinn 103 TiArUTC
> 
> Which I do own.
> 
> Interested to hear opinions on the subject ( depends on your classification of _classic _I suppose - mine is based on a mix of history linked to aviation / aviation watch development and iconic status, I think ).
> 
> Collection so far: _Fortis pp day/ date, Sinn 103TiArUTC, Breitling B1 SQ_


Well - a year of education, research and WUSing later - my list has inevitably changed, but not drastically - the title has changed from 'classic' to 'iconic' - I have a seperate classics list now:-d

Though there are many fantastic aviation watches out there and opinions are just that - opinions; these five to me, opitomise the _function, application and spirit_ of the aviation time piece.

For me, the evolution and application of the aviation wrist watch reached its zenith in the 1950's and 1960's - An age when technology was pushing aviation to new limits - we were going further, higher and faster, but the wrist watch still remained a part of the equation - subsequent development has been with avionic systems and today's modern cockpits make a wrist watch an academic choice. Even where a 'pilot's' watch is still a very useful tool - the design of the watch itself hasn't progressed much beyond the examples in my list ( multi-function quartz aside ).

To me - the wrist watch is part of that mechanical age ( the last golden age of aviation ) that reached its peak with Apollo and for me - not much can be improved upon in the design of the watches listed below for their intended applications. For the most part - they still make excellent 'pilot's' watches today even if things like tachymetre scales and slide rules have limited if not redundant use.

These five watches represent everything I love about flight and the watches that helped us unravel its mystery - they represent the needs of the being behind the machine - the human mind managing the amazing progress that was made in such a short time - to be a tad philosophical about it - the mind wrestling with space and time.

This is my take on it and I just thought I'd share these thoughts.

So - a little over a year on - here it is:

TOP 5 MOST ICONIC PILOT'S WATCHES IMHO

1. Omega Speedmaster Professional
2. Rolex GMT Master
3. Glycine Airman
4. Breitling Navitimer
5. Heuer Bundeswehr


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## inlanding

I've other Pilot watches, but this first Seiko 15 jewel Quartz Chronograph produced (1980s) in response to the fabulouls Omega Speedmaster is a joy to wear. I'd love to find a NOS one, but they are hard to come by.


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## Dave I

IWC Mk XVI
Sinn 656
Damasko DA36
IWC Big pilots watch
Tutima automatic Chronograph FX UTC


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## Crusader

whifferdill said:


> subsequent development has been with avionic systems and today's modern cockpits make a wrist watch an academic choice. Even where a 'pilot's' watch is still a very useful tool - the design of the watch itself hasn't progressed much beyond the examples in my list ( multi-function quartz aside ).


Try to tell that to some of the aerobatic and historical airplane pilots. 

Seriously, there are some cockpits (not in modern state-of-the-art airplanes and helicopters) that do lack inbuilt timers. now, as for the choice of an egg-boiling timer borrowed from the kitchesn, and a pilot's watch ... ;-)


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## whifferdill

Crusader said:


> Try to tell that to some of the aerobatic and historical airplane pilots.
> 
> Seriously, there are some cockpits (not in modern state-of-the-art airplanes and helicopters) that do lack inbuilt timers. now, as for the choice of an egg-boiling timer borrowed from the kitchesn, and a pilot's watch ... ;-)


Yes, exactly - that's where the pilot' watch comes into its own Crusader - in basic aircraft - vintage and sport machines - which is why watches that were conceived and built in the 60's can still hold their own against modern watches like the Sinn 103 - functionally they're the same, and fulfill the same requirements as they did 40 and 50 years ago. Even an Omega X-33 is redundant in a modern cockpit, but a handy piece of kit in an open cockpit bi-plane ( or presumably, the shuttle )!

Most of General aviation, for example, is no different than it was 30 - 50 years ago. It is only very recently that the glass cockpit and the GPS has found its way into GA and that at great expense. I'd rather go back to basics myself - which is why I like flying GA and gliders in my spare time and why I like those iconic watches of a by-gone time.


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## MAJJ

Hi Gentlemen,

Great pics and choices :-!

Pascal, you have a very nice collection of pilot watches |>

Martin, I do like the PRS-17-C, could you do a review? :thanks


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## aliasrichmond

Too many to choose from, but this Omega 6B/159 would be one of them


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## bullitt731

Crusader said:


> My bad, I forgot to mention that the upgraded version will have a white seconds hand. Red would have been better than yellow, by the way, as the yellow chrono hands are a bit difficult to see over the white indices in low-light conditions. But excellent VFM, and all of a chronograph I need (I am more of a time-only watch kind of guy). ;-)


I have looked at this watch on several ocassions and the changes you have mentioned would put me over the top. Are they taking preorders on the updated model; when do you anticipate they will be available?


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## O2AFAC67

*Top 5? Maybe, but sometimes you get a lemon...*

Not this time... ;-) :-d
Cheers,
Ron


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## STEVIE

1. Rolex GMT Master 111670
2. IWC Schaffhaussen Fleiger Mk. XVII
3. Omega X-33 or Speedie
4. Breitling Aerospace or Air Wolf
5. Oris Flight Timer - best value for money IMHO


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## whifferdill

Without wishing to sound pedantic - I think some folk are missing the point of the thread - I'm not talking about your top five _personal favourite_ watches, but the top five _most classic/ iconic_ pilot's watches - the ones that are wrapped up in aviation - part and parcel of the developments in aviation - the ones with history linked to significant periods / events in aviation or noted universally for design ( the Orfina Porsche design could be one for example )

I wouldn't necessarily like to own all the watches in my list - I'm not partial to the Breitling Navitimer for instance - but it is an iconic pilot's watch nonetheless. I chose the watches not because they were my 'favourite' ones, but because I think these five best represent the whole 'genre' of the pilot's watch.

Just thought I'd try and clarify where I am coming from with this thread.

Always nice to see the diversity of watches out there, however!


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## Ron Engels

From Wikipedia:


> "An icon (from Greek εἰκών, eikōn, "image") is an image, picture, or representation; it is a sign or likeness that stands for an object by signifying or representing it, or by analogy, as in semiotics; by extension, icon is also used, particularly in modern culture, in the general sense of symbol"


I think I know what you mean. An "iconic" pilot's watch is a watch that if you show it to people, will make them think "A, a pilot's watch". It represents this category of watches. I compare it to the well know American School-bus. Unchanged for ages (or so it seems). Show a picture of one and all around the world people will immediately identify it as a school-bus. That has nothing to do with it being desirable, ergonomic, good or beautiful. It's simply what people think of when they think of a school-bus.
So back to watches. An iconic pilot's watch, should be easily identified as such even by not so knowledgeable people on the subject. I can only think of a few.

Most iconic pilot's watches:
1. Breitling Navitimer
2. Omega Speedmaster
3. IWC Big Pilot
4. Rolex GMT-Master
5. ?

I really feel that the Rolex should come third, but many people that will easily recognize the GMT-Master, will not know it's a pilot's watch.
I can't think of another pilot's watch that really is an icon.


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## whifferdill

Ron Engels said:


> From Wikipedia:
> 
> I think I know what you mean. An "iconic" pilot's watch is a watch that if you show it to people, will make them think "A, a pilot's watch". It represents this category of watches. I compare it to the well know American School-bus. Unchanged for ages (or so it seems). Show a picture of one and all around the world people will immediately identify it as a school-bus. That has nothing to do with it being desirable, ergonomic, good or beautiful. It's simply what people think of when they think of a school-bus.
> So back to watches. An iconic pilot's watch, should be easily identified as such even by not so knowledgeable people on the subject. I can only think of a few.
> 
> Most iconic pilot's watches:
> 1. Breitling Navitimer
> 2. Omega Speedmaster
> 3. IWC Big Pilot
> 4. Rolex GMT-Master
> 5. ?
> 
> I really feel that the Rolex should come third, but many people that will easily recognize the GMT-Master, will not know it's a pilot's watch.
> I can't think of another pilot's watch that really is an icon.


Perhaps my terminology is confusing - The Rolex GMT Master is a good example, because to expand on what you say, for those interested in watches and / or aviation it is an 'iconic' pilot's watch as in Wikipedia's definition above - not only for its association with Pan Am, but also because many of the pre-space race X-15 test pilots owned one and in particular - Pete Knight was wearing one when he set the world speed / altitude record in 1967 - for these reasons, the GMT Master for me is a a truly iconic and historically important pilot's watch ( similar to the Speedmaster in this respect ).

In contrast - a non watch / aviation enthusiast member of the public will undoubtedly just see 'a Rolex' - so it's not an iconic pilot's watch in that sense. Regardless of your view of this watch, it can be regarded as an outstanding design and a very useful tool.

The others in my list have all been chosen for similar reasons to those outlined above ie: representative of a design high point coming from a unique age of aviation - in my reasoning, for representing what was perhaps the ultimate age of the pilot - a time when seat of the pants flying combined with high technology and the aviation wrist watch had been honed to a high degree of finesse - born of function, primarily, as at that time, they were still an integral pilot tool despite the quickening pace of technology.

If I were to choose a list of what the public perceive a pilot's watch to be, and iconic _in that sense_, the list would be very different I think!

Should I re-define my Top five list then? Perhaps the top five _most influential_ or top five _design classics_?

I think perhaps the last definition is the best - the top five pilot watch _design classics_

Going back to what I said in my first re-post on the subject:



> Though there are many fantastic aviation watches out there and opinions are just that - opinions; these five to me, opitomise the _function, application_ and _spirit_ of the aviation time piece.


I'll stick with that!


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## scottw44

We have to include the Polerouter:


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## whifferdill

inlanding said:


> I've other Pilot watches, but this first Seiko 15 jewel Quartz Chronograph produced (1980s) in response to the fabulouls Omega Speedmaster is a joy to wear. I'd love to find a NOS one, but they are hard to come by.


This watch has popped up a couple of times on this forum and is superb IMO! Great looks, rugged and accurate with chrono and bezel - hang on to that one!


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## STEVIE

whifferdill said:


> Perhaps my terminology is confusing - The Rolex GMT Master is a good example, because to expand on what you say, for those interested in watches and / or aviation it is an 'iconic' pilot's watch as in Wikipedia's definition above - not only for its association with Pan Am, but also because many of the pre-space race X-15 test pilots owned one and in particular - Pete Knight was wearing one when he set the world speed / altitude record in 1967 - for these reasons, the GMT Master for me is a a truly iconic and historically important pilot's watch ( similar to the Speedmaster in this respect ).
> 
> In contrast - a non watch / aviation enthusiast member of the public will undoubtedly just see 'a Rolex' - so it's not an iconic pilot's watch in that sense. Regardless of your view of this watch, it can be regarded as an outstanding design and a very useful tool.
> 
> The others in my list have all been chosen for similar reasons to those outlined above ie: representative of a design high point coming from a unique age of aviation - in my reasoning, for representing what was perhaps the ultimate age of the pilot - a time when seat of the pants flying combined with high technology and the aviation wrist watch had been honed to a high degree of finesse - born of function, primarily, as at that time, they were still an integral pilot tool despite the quickening pace of technology.
> 
> If I were to choose a list of what the public perceive a pilot's watch to be, and iconic _in that sense_, the list would be very different I think!
> 
> Should I re-define my Top five list then? Perhaps the top five _most influential_ or top five _design classics_?
> 
> I think perhaps the last definition is the best - the top five pilot watch _design classics_
> 
> Going back to what I said in my first re-post on the subject:
> 
> I'll stick with that!


Which was....quote:
"Here's my own personal list of the top 5 most classic Pilot watches "

So I most of us thought along that line as well. That's why I stick with my contribution.


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## whifferdill

STEVIE said:


> Which was....quote:
> "Here's my own personal list of the top 5 most classic Pilot watches "
> 
> So I most of us thought along that line as well. That's why I stick with my contribution.


Hope I haven't upset anyone - sincere apologies if I have.

In way of further explanation, I suppose the key word in my mind and in the post was 'classic'.

All the best


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## MAJJ

Not an aviator, but here’s my top 5 (10) currently available classic pilot watches:

IWC Big Pilot & IWC Double Chronograph Ceramics,

Omega Speedmaster Professional & Omega X-33,

Breitling Navitimer & Breitling Emergency Mission,

Tutima Military NATO Flieger Chronograph TL & Tutima Eurofighter Typhoon Flieger Chronograph F2 UTC,

Fortis B-42 Official Cosmonauts Chronograph Titanium & Sinn 757 UTC DIAPAL Duochronograph.


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## whifferdill

aliasrichmond said:


> Too many to choose from, but this Omega 6B/159 would be one of them


Gorgeous WWII watch - I love these very simple and elegant time only pieces and some great history with them too!


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## whifferdill

scottw44 said:


> We have to include the Polerouter:


That's a really interesting one Scottw44! Just did a google on it and read about the SAS airline pole routing history and special watch issue to crews - not one I've seen or heard of before and a really interesting little gem - a very nice watch and outside what you might consider a 'pilot's' watch to look like today.

For anyone else that didn't already know about this watch, here's an interesting link:http://www.polerouter.de/frameset-story.htm

Thanks for posting:-!


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## Guest

I know this a an older thread, but its a good one, and I just wanted to say thanks to those who posted.

Also, I will add one more to the recommendations already added here:
- Sinn 757

Note: I recommend the standard version over the UTC version, as the latter has only a 12 hour indication for the second timezone and, as such, is useless for aviation purposes.

I think this watch is a nice combination of: classic B-Uhr style, instrument panel clock, modern layout, chronograph and bezel timer. Great combination! 

If anything, I would like to see the minute sub dial modified to a 60 minute accumulator (like has been done to the U1000). I know this is not a standard of pilot watches. Does anyone else have an opinion about the usefulness for pilots of this feature. Many of the recommendations above already have a modified center minute accumulator, so I am guessing the answer is that its useful.

Finally, in keeping with the thread, my five (roughly, i.e. not counting various versions):
1. Rolex GMT II
2. Breitling Navitimer
3. IWC Mark (various verisons)
4. Stowa Flieger
5. Sinn (656/7, 756/7, 856/7, 903)

Of course this list is, as the thread title suggests, based on some notion of 'classic' rather than 'real' (i.e. what many pilots actually use).


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## Crusader

bergspringer said:


> If anything, I would like to see the minute sub dial modified to a 60 minute accumulator (like has been done to the U1000). I know this is not a standard of pilot watches. Does anyone else have an opinion about the usefulness for pilots of this feature.


The 60-minute subdial is more intuitively and more quickly readable, but not as precisely - as the minute marks are closer together than in the case of a 30-minute subdial. In fact, there are historical examples which went in the opposite direction, by reducing the subdial to 15 minutes, so that the _precise _reading of elapsed minutes would be made easier.


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## whifferdill

bergspringer said:


> I know this a an older thread, but its a good one, and I just wanted to say thanks to those who posted.
> 
> Also, I will add one more to the recommendations already added here:
> - Sinn 757
> 
> Note: I recommend the standard version over the UTC version, as the latter has only a 12 hour indication for the second timezone and, as such, is useless for aviation purposes.
> 
> I think this watch is a nice combination of: classic B-Uhr style, instrument panel clock, modern layout, chronograph and bezel timer. Great combination!
> 
> If anything, I would like to see the minute sub dial modified to a 60 minute accumulator (like has been done to the U1000). I know this is not a standard of pilot watches. Does anyone else have an opinion about the usefulness for pilots of this feature. Many of the recommendations above already have a modified center minute accumulator, so I am guessing the answer is that its useful.
> 
> Finally, in keeping with the thread, my five (roughly, i.e. not counting various versions):
> 1. Rolex GMT II
> 2. Breitling Navitimer
> 3. IWC Mark (various verisons)
> 4. Stowa Flieger
> 5. Sinn (656/7, 756/7, 856/7, 903)
> 
> Of course this list is, as the thread title suggests, based on some notion of 'classic' rather than 'real' (i.e. what many pilots actually use).


Thanks for the contribution! Think my own list has changed more than once since I started this thread:-d

Your point above about the 60 minute accumulator is why so many love the L5100 movement and its ability to clearly show elapsed minutes, but as Crusader points out, with the subdial chrono models as found on the Speedy and all 7750 chronos, a 60 minute accumulator does clutter things up a bit and for aviation anyway - most precise timings are for less than five minutes - certainly under an hour, so having a chrono for long duration is not that necessary and anyway, how many times has anyone needed to time 53 minutes and 27 seconds, say?;-):-d Much easier to just use the time for long duration and the chrono for short IMHO.


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## Guest

Thanks to 'Crusader' and 'wifferdill'. Good responses. Your comments explain why a modern 'classic pilot' watch might also include a bezel timer as part of the package. I have read that some pilots prefer, or find useful, a countdown bezel timer for practical use (something like you would find on an 'einsatzzeitmesser' or 'special ops' military watch) rather than an elapsed time bezel. 
-bergspringer


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## HappyJack

Yes - the countdown bezel nicely complements the count-up function of the chronograph, and comes in handy for navigation - I expected this leg of the flight to take 42 minutes - how much longer before I expect to be at my turning point? 

OTOH - flying mostly in my local area, to do aerobatics, I don't need to worry so much about that. As an amateur, it's mostly - I put $5 in the parking meter which gives me 53 minutes - how much longer before I risk getting a parking fine?

For flying, my stomach tells me when I've had enough aerobatic minutes, and the timing tends to be for - how long since I started the engine? How long since I took off? And why is it taking me 1m 5 secs from brakes off to 2000', when I can usually do it in 58 secs? How long does it take to fly a circuit? About 2 mins 35 secs in a Pitts, since you ask...So much as I like count-down bezels (and have one on my Revue Thomen) having a couple of elapsed time timers - ie count-up bezel and chrono - can also have its merits.


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## whifferdill

HappyJack said:


> For flying, my stomach tells me when I've had enough aerobatic minutes, and the timing tends to be for - how long since I started the engine? How long since I took off? And why is it taking me 1m 5 secs from brakes off to 2000', when I can usually do it in 58 secs? How long does it take to fly a circuit? About 2 mins 35 secs in a Pitts, since you ask...So much as I like count-down bezels (and have one on my Revue Thomen) having a couple of elapsed time timers - ie count-up bezel and chrono - can also have its merits.


Precisely why I've enjoyed my Heuer so much for fun flying HappyJack. Which bezel you want depends on the flying you're doing - be nice to be able to swap bezels to suit! Countdown for cross country, count-up for aeros!


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## Militarywatchdude

Wow, I just finished reading through the three pages of this thread. 

I'm very suprised that I only saw the B-Uhr mentioned once. As the new owner of a Laco B-Uhr, I feel that it's my duty to ask why these classic WWII pilots watches aren't iconic?


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## whifferdill

Militarywatchdude said:


> Wow, I just finished reading through the three pages of this thread.
> 
> I'm very suprised that I only saw the B-Uhr mentioned once. As the new owner of a Laco B-Uhr, I feel that it's my duty to ask why these classic WWII pilots watches aren't iconic?


Absolutely! Good call.


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## Guest

Militarywatchdude said:


> Wow, I just finished reading through the three pages of this thread.
> 
> I'm very surprised that I only saw the B-Uhr mentioned once. As the new owner of a Laco B-Uhr, I feel that it's my duty to ask why these classic WWII pilots watches aren't iconic?


Well... underlying virtually the whole thread is, IMO, the history of the B-Uhren. Where they are not mentioned specifically, B-Uhren are the main inspiration in watches (that were mentioned) such as Hanhart, Tutima Flieger, IWC and others. One would have to say that even the Sinn 656/756/856 style watches owe a lot to the classic B-Uhren. In fact, I rated Stowa in my top five, and their Flieger/Airman is an homage to the original B-Uhren made by this company in a previous incarnation.

There is also a distinction between 'pilots watch/aviation watch' from the past and more recent versions: i.e. the main requirements of the original B-Uhren were to be accurate and highly legible. This sets the basic parameters of what we now have in 'pilot/aviation' style watches. But in more recent times aviation watches have typically required more than these simple characteristics, and now include things like: chronograph, bezel timer, GMT complications, etc. I don't want to draw a hard distinction between the 'earlier' and 'more recent' interpretations of a pilots watch, but I think a 'Top 5 Classic Pilots Watch' list would have to include both, which this thread has done to a large degree.

Its a great thread... IMHO


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## Crusader

bergspringer is right in that there are several lineages of aviation watches ... the uncomplicated, bezel-less and highly accurate navigation watches (of which the B-Uhren are very much the archetype, but the iconic IWC/JLC Mark 11 would fall into this category, too), and the pilot's watches which as early as the 1930s had a rotatable bezel to mark elapsed/remaining time, and later a chronograph function.

These days, a second timezone has become very important, as a pilot has to manage aircraft data and weather reports (in UTC), his home time, time at his destination ... 

A fascinating subject, how the different strands of navigation and pilot's watches intertwine and separate in history.


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## Militarywatchdude

bergspringer said:


> Well... underlying virtually the whole thread is, IMO, the history of the B-Uhren. Where they are not mentioned specifically, B-Uhren are the main inspiration in watches (that were mentioned) such as Hanhart, Tutima Flieger, IWC and others. One would have to say that even the Sinn 656/756/856 style watches owe a lot to the classic B-Uhren. In fact, I rated Stowa in my top five, and their Flieger/Airman is an homage to the original B-Uhren made by this company in a previous incarnation.
> 
> There is also a distinction between 'pilots watch/aviation watch' from the past and more recent versions: i.e. the main requirements of the original B-Uhren were to be accurate and highly legible. This sets the basic parameters of what we now have in 'pilot/aviation' style watches. But in more recent times aviation watches have typically required more than these simple characteristics, and now include things like: chronograph, bezel timer, GMT complications, etc. I don't want to draw a hard distinction between the 'earlier' and 'more recent' interpretations of a pilots watch, but I think a 'Top 5 Classic Pilots Watch' list would have to include both, which this thread has done to a large degree.
> 
> Its a great thread... IMHO


Wow, excellent points. Thanks for posting! :-!


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## Greg H.

Lot of nice choices! :-!

The one watch that would probably be the 'end all' for me is the *IWC Big Pilot*. I tried one in Aspen, CO a couple of years ago. I absolutely love that watch!

The Problem: The price was about $12,000 (in stainless).

But, if I had the choice for 1 Grail watch, this would probably be it.


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