# Why is MWC so despised?



## orian

I noticed that MWC is always compared unfavourably with CWC (mainly in the older forum threads on Watchuseek). This seems to be because MWC has claimed to have been a supplier of watches to the British MOD, whereas CWC, as I understand it, could only rightfully make such a claim. Is this the only reason MWC is frowned upon?

I hope it is, because looking at the watch collection on MWC's website, and having read a couple of reviews of these watches, they seem to me to be decently well made, and certainly more affordable than CWC's. 

Of course, perhaps I'm assuming too much, having never owned either company's watches. But, still, I can't see what all the indignation is about whenever MWC is mentioned in the same breath as CWC.


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## Doug507

It is largely due to their dishonest advertising claims - no, make that fraudulent claims. Also their quality is very hit and miss. I soured on them because when they were outed for their lies about supplying MoD, they responded with more lies and deception. Rarely does a single company come to embody fraud and deceit, but MWC has achieved it.


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## orian

Do they still make that specific claim, though? I can't see it anywhere on their website. 

Regarding quality, are there any side-by-side comparison reviews of a CWC and MWC mechanical watch (including a look at the movements)? I've read that MWC use Chinese movements rather than Swiss, is this true? And if so, does it matter, seeing as their watches are sold for much less than CWC's?

Not meaning to sound argumentative, just genuinely curious.


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## Silent Speaker

I don't think it was only the false claims or even only quality issues that has many 'despising' MWC, though undoubtedly these are substantial reasons for hate; I distinctly remember reading about a situation where the supposed owner of MWC appeared on the forum where the whistle was blown and making all sorts of legal threats etc., needless to say it was all just scare tactics.

Still, if you do something like that _unjustfully_ and can't back it up with real, again, unjust retribution, people will not tend to look upon you or your company and products particularly favorably. Like what Doug507 said, deceit, treachery, threats etc., etc., real unpleasant stuff apparently.

The forum was Military Watch Resource (or something - mwrforum.net) and the thread title was : "There is something VERY sinister going on in the milwatch world..." (my, how dramatic ).

Have a read of that thread, should answer some of your questions.


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## orian

Thanks. I'll check it out.


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## MarkNZ

I own several CWC and also 2 MWC models. The CWC's are the G10's and I have 4 ranging from a thick case 1980 up to a GS2000. I also own a CWC SBS and an MWC divers watch which is similar. In my opinion the MWC 100m G10 which I bought a few months ago beats the CWC GS2000 hands down because it is screw caseback and screw crown. The other plus is the 10 year battery life of the Ronda 715li movement. Coming to the divers I prefer the CWC because the bezel action seems more positive but other than that the two watches are very close. I have never seen MWC claim to be MOD suppliers and I often read this on a few forums but rarely post although I thought I might as well today. Where do they claim this MOD business or is it a rumour spead by a competitor? I suppose the other factor is that the company was sold in 2008 so maybe someone previously worked there and made this claim but what is interesting is that when you ask them on the phone who is the main MOD supplier in the UK they will say CWC or Pulsar. If anyone has details of the advertising claims I would be keen to see it because I can't find anything anywhere.


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## MarkNZ

There is a comparison on The Military Watch Specialists and I found another one can't remember where but it compared a MWC G10A which is a cheap lightweight model (I wouldn't buy it) which they make with a GS2000 from CWC which in my mind is an unfair comparison because you a not comparing like with like, although they look similar at first glance. It is a bit like comparing the 100m screw case MWC with the 50m GS2000 they are both good watches but it would be an unfair comparison. As far as movements MWC do make some cheap watches around $35 and no doubt the movement is likely to be Miyota but my 100m G10 has a Ronda 715li. Ronda say the battery life is 10 years but I reckon if I get 7 it will be doing well.


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## Doug507

They have cleaned their website up quite a bit since their slimy heyday. But there are still some good laughs to be had there...

"IMPORTANT: Unfortunately most manufacturers of military watches suffer problems with illegal fakes just the same as other watch companies." - This coming from the original counterfeiters themselves!

"MWC are a leading supplier, not just to the *military* but also to police forces, mining companies and *other government departments*." - _Really?_ They can't name ONE.


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## orian

> I suppose the other factor is that the company was sold in 2008 so maybe someone previously worked there and made this claim but what is interesting is that when you ask them on the phone who is the main MOD supplier in the UK they will say CWC or Pulsar. If anyone has details of the advertising claims I would be keen to see it because I can't find anything anywhere.


I'm presuming that since they now have new management they have tidied up their act. If so, can they still be blamed for old management behavior?


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## wmaker

If I may ask: MWC watches are often advertised with the description "The back of the case bears various military and contract markings."

For example, I have a bottom-of-the-range "CTC" with the back stamped as:
W10/6645-29
8940694
1947 09

This is presumably a NSN number with country code "29" for Argentina. Is it at all valid?


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## peewee102

I own a battery hatch and a mechanical MWC. The quartz one has a Swiss Rhonda movement. I don't know if the mechanical movement is Swiss, but it keeps awesome time! It's only 2 seconds fast a day. The only gripe I have is the lume. The numerals hold their lume all night and is about as bright as my Hamilton Khaki quartz. The lume on the hands suck. They only stay readable for a couple of hours. These are 3 year old models. The new versions my be better in regards to the lume. What do you think, MarkNZ?


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## gr8whitehuntr

wmaker said:


> If I may ask: MWC watches are often advertised with the description "The back of the case bears various military and contract markings."
> 
> For example, I have a bottom-of-the-range "CTC" with the back stamped as:
> W10/6645-29
> 8940694
> 1947 09
> 
> This is presumably a NSN number with country code "29" for Argentina. Is it at all valid?


Hi,

I'm a newbie here. I have the exact same watch that I bought from ebay. Can anyone tell me where I might find more information on it? From memory I think the seller had it advertised as German made but I'm not 100% sure. :-s

thanks


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## Hummeer

MarkNZ said:


> I own several CWC and also 2 MWC models. The CWC's are the G10's and I have 4 ranging from a thick case 1980 up to a GS2000. I also own a CWC SBS and an MWC divers watch which is similar. In my opinion the MWC 100m G10 which I bought a few months ago beats the CWC GS2000 hands down because it is screw caseback and screw crown. The other plus is the 10 year battery life of the Ronda 715li movement. Coming to the divers I prefer the CWC because the bezel action seems more positive but other than that the two watches are very close. I have never seen MWC claim to be MOD suppliers and I often read this on a few forums but rarely post although I thought I might as well today. Where do they claim this MOD business or is it a rumour spead by a competitor? I suppose the other factor is that the company was sold in 2008 so maybe someone previously worked there and made this claim but what is interesting is that when you ask them on the phone who is the main MOD supplier in the UK they will say CWC or Pulsar. If anyone has details of the advertising claims I would be keen to see it because I can't find anything anywhere.


MWC has been owned by the same person since the beginning and has never been sold. The watches are assembled in Zurich from Chinese parts but they claim they are ´Swiss Made`.
No MOD purchases can be confirmed. Their warning (on the MWC URL´s about being careful of fakes is hilarious as who in their right mind would make an imitation MWC watch? 
MWC have claimed that ´any bad MWC watches must be fakes`, clearly there are alot of fake ones on this basis!


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## Flightpath

Hi,

I have not looked into MWC for a long time but do remember them advertiseing some of their watches as production overruns from a military contract (South Africa or simular) and that as far as folk on MWR could make out there were no military contracts filled by MWC, I think it also had a fake NSN or something on the caseback. 

A lot of their watches have 'military' markings that are not related to the watch:








MWC 'Bund' pilot's chrono, never has been Bund issue and '99' in the NSN number denotes british issue..









MWC diver with broad arrow makes it look like an MOD/RN issue watch.








MWC 'Spezial Einstatz Kommando' watch (never been german issued).

I guess MWC will continue to let people believe they have a Bund or MOD issue watch, to me this is a mark of a company without integrity.....

cheers,

-John:-!


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## peewee102

peewee102 said:


> I own a battery hatch and a mechanical MWC. The quartz one has a Swiss Rhonda movement. I don't know if the mechanical movement is Swiss, but it keeps awesome time! It's only 2 seconds fast a day. The only gripe I have is the lume. The numerals hold their lume all night and is about as bright as my Hamilton Khaki quartz. The lume on the hands suck. They only stay readable for a couple of hours. These are 3 year old models. The new versions my be better in regards to the lume. What do you think, MarkNZ?


Just had the hands re-lumed by Jack at IWW. Still keeps great time and now can be read all night long. Going back into the rotation again!


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## Mooseman

I found a rather interesting document relating to a Freedom of information recently on another forum hence I'm returning to this subject which related to various Ministry of Defence contracts and I've attached below a link which shows exactly who held contracts with the MOD at the time that this Freedom of information request was made by the individual concerned. Interestingly CWC is not one of them. I'd be curious to know what the current position is but I suppose of Freedom of information request would yield the information though I am not sure if I would be able to submit it as I do not live in the UK anyway this is the link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzqjx2t3PlpWY1lxcHkyY2FnYTA/view?usp=sharing


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## Papichulo

I just stumbled across this thread. I love CWC and it is my favorite military watch company. Getting to the point, if you look at the specs of the MWC G10 titanium it is impressive. For what it is worth being a former military bubba the majority of the time I wore a GShock, for a bit a SUUNTO and Citizen BM6400 and never a CWC or other "military" field watch in the field. However, I love simplicity; hence, a G10 type watch does it for me. Making false claims is wrong! I wonder if they have cleaned up their act? I feel since they are not the standard to CWC they could be employed as daily beater. Thoughts or am I off target?


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## Anders_Flint

Dubious (read: false) military claims and generally very low quality are the reasons they're not very highly regarded.


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## Papichulo

I read the thread; perhaps, my post was misleading. I am purely focused on the specs and if the specs are legitimate good deal. Nonetheless, this would be a daily wear and not a grail. I found it interesting.


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## Quartersawn

When they stretch the truth on the military legitimacy all other claims including quality and specs are suspect IMO.

If you want a less expensive G10 style watch for a beater perhaps a Precista will work for you. In addition to a screw down crown and case back it has a sapphire crystal and 20mm (rather than 19mm) lugs. It also has a legitimate NATO stock number - 6645-99-226-5490.

Precista General Service PRS-10 Timefactors


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## Papichulo

I like the Precista, CWC and more conservative Smiths. They all look good.


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## hagensieker

Mooseman said:


> I found a rather interesting document relating to a Freedom of information recently on another forum hence I'm returning to this subject which related to various Ministry of Defence contracts and I've attached below a link which shows exactly who held contracts with the MOD at the time that this Freedom of information request was made by the individual concerned. Interestingly CWC is not one of them. I'd be curious to know what the current position is but I suppose of Freedom of information request would yield the information though I am not sure if I would be able to submit it as I do not live in the UK anyway this is the link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzqjx2t3PlpWY1lxcHkyY2FnYTA/view?usp=sharing


I just joined here a few days ago but I'm into military field watches.

From their "About Us" page. *MWC is now one of the worlds leading suppliers of robust military specification timepieces, not just to individual buyers and the military but also to police forces, anti-terrorist units, airlines, mining companies, shipping and salvage companies and a diverse variety of government agencies and departments.*

I work for the US government and got on the Qualified Products Database webpage and they are NOT an authorized supplier for the US Military or Dept of Defense. The only manufacturer on the list is Marathon Watch Company LTD.

I just checked the AAFES (Army Air Force Exchange) web page and they don't carry MWC either.

Good find on the FOI request from UK.


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## longstride

Quartersawn said:


> When they stretch the truth on the military legitimacy all other claims including quality and specs are suspect IMO.
> 
> If you want a less expensive G10 style watch for a beater perhaps a Precista will work for you. In addition to a screw down crown and case back it has a sapphire crystal and 20mm (rather than 19mm) lugs. It also has a legitimate NATO stock number - 6645-99-226-5490.
> 
> Precista General Service PRS-10 Timefactors
> 
> View attachment 14584339


This CWC is also an excellent option...

https://www.cwcwatch.com/products/c...4bb1aca1f4&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seguno


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## Papichulo

I have two CWCs and I just received a message this morning they have restocked this G10 sapphire crystal.


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## milgauss1349

If you want a “real” Military watch buy any $50 Timex and a Garmin 401; and if you want to be SF buy a Tactix. Anything else is really just historical, for posterity, trade specific (read dive watches), or is dishing rations or processing claims. Or rock a submariner because your a super SEAL and might have to trade it for a Hilux...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Papichulo

The majority of the time I wore a simple citizen or GShock. Your comments are funny and are probably meant for a FOB bunny... After 31 years enlisted I just like simple watches.

Cheers mate


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## Carl.1

I had an MWC G10 for as long as it took to flip it.

Shoddy finish. Not a good watch. I now have a PRS29, it is superb. MWC are cheap for a reason.


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## Papichulo

I will most likely pick up a PRS29 or PRS10. I feel the 29 maybe a little small. I have not decided; nonetheless, I have time to decide with them currently being out of stock.


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## jon brook

milgauss1349 said:


> If you want a "real" Military watch buy any $50 Timex and a Garmin 401; and if you want to be SF buy a Tactix. Anything else is really just historical, for posterity, trade specific (read dive watches), or is dishing rations or processing claims. Or rock a submariner because your a super SEAL and might have to trade it for a Hilux...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


so you telling us that the SBS black diver is not an "issued" watch then?


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## mtnmdc

Papichulo said:


> The majority of the time I wore a simple citizen or GShock. Your comments are funny and are probably meant for a FOB bunny... After 31 years enlisted I just like simple watches.
> 
> Cheers mate


23 years here and I always wore my Seiko. Many deployments as a combat medic.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Calumets

My Smiths PRS-29a is possibly my favourite watch.









But it does have strong competition from its stable-mate, the Smiths Everest Expedition:









And from the vintage Hamilton I Just picked up:









All three of them knock the socks off the MWC W10 I started out with, which is, nevertheless, a nice little watch too:


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## mgp123

Silent Speaker said:


> I don't think it was only the false claims or even only quality issues that has many 'despising' MWC, though undoubtedly these are substantial reasons for hate; I distinctly remember reading about a situation where the supposed owner of MWC appeared on the forum where the whistle was blown and making all sorts of legal threats etc., needless to say it was all just scare tactics.
> 
> Still, if you do something like that _unjustfully_ and can't back it up with real, again, unjust retribution, people will not tend to look upon you or your company and products particularly favorably. Like what Doug507 said, deceit, treachery, threats etc., etc., real unpleasant stuff apparently.
> 
> The forum was Military Watch Resource (or something - mwrforum.net) and the thread title was : "There is something VERY sinister going on in the milwatch world..." (my, how dramatic ).
> 
> Have a read of that thread, should answer some of your questions.


FYI that mwrforum page is now gone. I am not sure if it was related to someone from the company contacting the site or what; I just know it's no longer an available thread/post to read.

I went on MWC's website after seeing some for sale on eBay and reading this post, and the ABOUT US page still reads "MWC is now one of the worlds leading suppliers of robust military specification timepieces..." even though nobody can find one military group that officially uses them...let alone them being "the leading suppliers".

I'd rather buy from a different company if I wanted a true vintage military watch or a homage to it. MWC seems shady.

And most of the people I know who were ever deployed just wore G-Shock or other Casio watches. I'm pretty sure you can wear whatever you want though no matter what they issue to you, so it's really up to the soldier.


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## dinomartino1

I am on the fence on this one but in the interests of fairness.
MWC supplied one jewel pin pallet mechanical watches to the British army of the Rhine in 1990. I think they where supposed to be emergency timepieces in the event of a Warsaw Pact attack on Europe, electromagnetic pulses [EMP] from a nuclear explosion may have disabled the circuit boards in the CWC G-10 quartz movements.

They also have supplied the UK police with watches.
All of the information below is from a thread here in 2012








thoughts about MWC military style watches...


Hi guys here's a brand that makes military inspired watches.. on the web we can find a bunch of threads/discussion about that watches... but we found at the end the final answer?Can we consider them "used by military units" ?Obyouvsly we cannot consider them "issued" i am not telling or...




www.watchuseek.com





_"I am a serving officer in an anti terrorist unit and we get issued with an MWC branded P6500 only problem is they are given out on an op and handed back after but I will post some pics when I get to keep it overnight and get a chance to take them. I was doing a job at an airport and interestingly the US opposite numbers had Marathon Navigators which use the same GTLS tubes as MWC and Traser so clearly we are all moving that way. I am baffled why the UK MOD use Luminova but maybe its down to cost issues.
As far as quality I find the MWC to be fine but I also have a P6506 12/24 hour military spec version of the civiilian 12 hour version and that is an excellent bit of kit and streets ahead of the P6500. I asked MWC why our unit did not opt for that but was told it coms down to the four letter word COST!'

"Based on The Concise Guide to Military Timepieces 1880-1990 by Ziggy Weslowski which MWC and other military watch dealers sell it confirms that MWC supplied the British Army with W10's in 1990 and yet if you ask Dieter at MWC who has been there since 1981 he says he has no comment on this particular sale so clearly not an admission or denial. I spoke to Richard at MWC who confirms that they sell to various forces abroad and emailed supporting documents. He also confirmed that they have supplied the UK Government and among the organisations is the Metropolitan Police Anti Terrorist Unit and various other departments but he also pointed out that they are not overly interested in UK contracts as they have no UK presence to speak of but if approached they would tender but do not actively solicit the business. In spite of this I am aware MWC's were provided to Gurkha's at Catterick Garrison in 2003 and 2004 but again I found out the details of this from serving Gurkha's not from MWC themselves but because the watches were MWC branded they must have reached them by some route."

"Q: What defines a military watch?
A: This is a fairly difficult question to answer. Many watch manufacturers such as G-Shock are not actually manufacturing watches specifically for military use but that does not detract from the fact that they are a watch of choice by many serving military and are extremely robust and fit for purpose. Other manufacturers such as Marathon are purely military and SAR orientated. MWC produce watches not just for military use but we have also supplied anti terrorist units, police forces and both exploration and mining companies all of which have requirements that share many requirements with military specification watches.

Q: Are all the watches MWC manufacture currently issued to the military or security forces?
A: The answer to this is no because we produce some watches which are made for film companies, re-enactment groups, cadets and veterans clubs. These watches mostly from the 1960's such as our Vietnam watches and GG-W-113 are recreations (based on the original specifications) of watches which. Other MWC watches have appeared in various films such as The Outlaw with Sean Bean"

From: MWC Watch Company / MWC Uhren Gesellschaft <[email protected]>
Date: 2009/11/22
Subject: MWC Sales in UK
To: [email protected]

Dear Felix,

I can confirm that we do not solicit UK military contracts nor make any
reference to any contractual arrangements elsewhere. I can confirm that we do not currently hold a UK MOD contract and although we have supplied UK anti terrorist units we do not promote this point or use such sales to gain business. If any MWC employee has informed you otherwise please let us know.

We are a general supplier not just to the military but also to police
forces, mining companies, salvage units and oil and gas exploration firms
as well as film companies and various government agencies but I wish to
confirm for the sake of clarification that we do not specifically target
the UK for business any more than any other location because we are not UK based. To the best of my knowledge UK military contacts are currently held by Pulsar, CWC and Seiko.

Regarding the watch in the URL on the forum you referred to it might have
what appears to be a UK case back but is not ours and we have never made a quartz version of that model.

If I can be of further help please let me know.

Best Regards
Clinton Baines

Hi,
They have been issued to a large number of units such as the Anti
Terrorist unit in the UK and various South American forces but there are
so many contracts large and small it is hard to know where to start. We
also have an issue that we have agreements not to use details for
promotion or publicity and there is the problem that if we make a list
available to a third party they might post it publicly.

Regards
Sheila_


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## watchyourself

The fact that they named their company "MWC" well after "CWC" was established and started churning out similar looking watches with pseudo military markings would be slimy enough for most people I am assuming.


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