# New Aquis Date Calibre 400



## ofted42

Looks like Oris jumped the gun a bit, it's now official

Oris Aquis Calibre 400




























Price look to be around $3300 on the rubber, $3500 with the bracelet. Looking at the face, it almost reminds me of the Clipperton I had for close to two years. That was a fantastic sunburst dial, good move on their part amping this up a bit to match that. New movement looks great through that big case back.

Neat to see, but I was sure hoping for something with a bit more "pop" for a new calibre release like this. Plus, _gets out soapbox_, give us a bracelet with an easy micro adjust Oris! This has got to be one of the best bracelets in the diver world right now, and not having that option just kills me. I was working on my own version that would retrofit into the existing clasp but put it on the backburner for some other stuff. Was really hoping this would be it, but I might have to resurrect that. Be the perfect watch then.


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## argonaute2

Your release post made it up 30 seconds before mine lol. Anyway, I like the subtleness of the change of date position, just slightly lower than previous models to make room for the extra line of text.


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## ofted42

Good catch, I didn't notice that. I have to say I'm a bit relieved overall, if it had been a gorgeous limited edition I probably would have had to jump, but now I can bide my time.


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## argonaute2

Agreed, while it is stunning, I wouldn't see myself getting a teal/turquoise scheme for an everyday wear type of watch. I'm glad I went ahead and got my 41.5mm a few months ago rather than waiting for this release. Will definitely look at this down the road though as they expand the line.


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## munichblue

Here it is, the new standard: Oris Aquis Date 400

I'm over the moon...


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## kritameth

Looking forward to seeing more colors, especially black. New movement looking great, although, and I may be alone on this, a splash of red maybe just on the logo on the rotor would've been cool too. New pricing is spot-on to what I had in mind, so it'll probably be long, if at all, before one sees a sub-$2000 Aquis 400 in the marketplace. But overall I'm impressed with the release, that movement is a game-changer for sure.



munichblue said:


> Here it is, the new standard: Oris Aquis Date 400
> 
> I'm over the moon...
> 
> View attachment 15523258
> 
> 
> View attachment 15523260


Very nice!


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## Rice and Gravy

Amazing new movement and a $3300 watch and they can't be bothered to match the date wheel?


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## James_

ofted42 said:


> Looks like Oris jumped the gun a bit, it's now official
> 
> Oris Aquis Calibre 400
> 
> View attachment 15523218
> 
> 
> View attachment 15523226
> 
> 
> View attachment 15523224
> 
> 
> Price look to be around $3300 on the rubber, $3500 with the bracelet. Looking at the face, it almost reminds me of the Clipperton I had for close to two years. That was a fantastic sunburst dial, good move on their part amping this up a bit to match that. New movement looks great through that big case back.
> 
> Neat to see, but I was sure hoping for something with a bit more "pop" for a new calibre release like this. Plus, _gets out soapbox_, give us a bracelet with an easy micro adjust Oris! This has got to be one of the best bracelets in the diver world right now, and not having that option just kills me. I was working on my own version that would retrofit into the existing clasp but put it on the backburner for some other stuff. Was really hoping this would be it, but I might have to resurrect that. Be the perfect watch then.


Don't know why you keep going on about the bracelet being one of the best. It's a pretty average oyster style bracelet. Quite rattly too. The double push button release with double pins (?) is the only stand out thing. Yes it would be nice to have a ratcheting extension but still it wouldn't be as good as you make out. The quick release on the new one is a nice addition.


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## Skyjuice

Very exciting piece! Camping for a black version too.


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## vexXed

Rice and Gravy said:


> Amazing new movement and a $3300 watch and they can't be bothered to match the date wheel?


Firstly, congratulations to Oris!

I think the date wheel would also have to be a gradient colour to match the dial. It's sitting right in between the transition from blue to black. Now if they had actually done that I'd be impressed, but at least the black makes it more legible.


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## kritameth

James_ said:


> Don't know why you keep going on about the bracelet being one of the best. It's a pretty average oyster style bracelet. Quite rattly too. The double push button release with double pins (?) is the only stand out thing. Yes it would be nice to have a ratcheting extension but still it wouldn't be as good as you make out. The quick release on the new one is a nice addition.


It was one of the best, if not the best, in the price tier it previously dominated in. With the new pricing it's now competing heads-on with the likes of Tudor and Breitling, so I'm not so sure anymore.


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## slippinjimmy

Looking forward to the next watch to get the 400...their whole "world citizen" promo had me expecting a pilot GMT. Good stuff though!


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## COZ

Did I miss something, what size is this? I'm only interested in the new 41.5 mm size right now. Like the blue dial and bezel, really needs a solid caseback though, nothing interesting to see on the movement.


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## ofted42

James_ said:


> Don't know why you keep going on about the bracelet being one of the best. It's a pretty average oyster style bracelet. Quite rattly too. The double push button release with double pins (?) is the only stand out thing. Yes it would be nice to have a ratcheting extension but still it wouldn't be as good as you make out. The quick release on the new one is a nice addition.


Not just me, I hear that quite often from others as well, but to each their own. Not sure about the rattly, it's probably the least rattly bracelet I've ever owned and I much preferred it to the bracelets on the Omegas Seamaster 300 and Planet Ocean I had. Planet Ocean especially was underwhelming to me, seemed very average for the price. Not machined as nicely or as tightly fitted as the Aquis. Can't speak to some others, but usually when I hear someone bring up bracelets the Aquis is mentioned as one of the best.

Someone else made a decent point about the bracelet now competing with higher end watches. Not quite as much of a standout in that bracket, but I think it still holds up amazingly well.


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## munichblue

ofted42 said:


> Not just me, I hear that quite often from others as well, but to each their own. Not sure about the rattly, it's probably the least rattly bracelet I've ever owned and I much preferred it to the bracelets on the Omegas Seamaster 300 and Planet Ocean I had. Planet Ocean especially was underwhelming to me, seemed very average for the price. Not machined as nicely or as tightly fitted as the Aquis. Can't speak to some others, but usually when I hear someone bring up bracelets the Aquis is mentioned as one of the best.
> 
> Someone else made a decent point about the bracelet now competing with higher end watches. Not quite as much of a standout in that bracket, but I think it still holds up amazingly well.


I own 3 Rolex with Oysters, 4 Omegas with bracelets and a Vacheron Constantin (this bracelet is outstanding) and the Aquis bracelet does not have to hide behind those from Rolex and Omega. Especially when you look at the price difference.


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## nonfatproduct

James_ said:


> Don't know why you keep going on about the bracelet being one of the best. It's a pretty average oyster style bracelet. Quite rattly too. The double push button release with double pins (?) is the only stand out thing. Yes it would be nice to have a ratcheting extension but still it wouldn't be as good as you make out. The quick release on the new one is a nice addition.


This might be the first time I've ever seen someone refer to an Aquis bracelet as average.


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## Earl Grey

I am happy for Oris, but even happier that the Selitta versions will continue. 

In particular, I find the aesthetics around the 6 o’clock marker to actually be a step backwards. I am a fan of bigger date complications (I have a Propilot and the big date was one of the reasons I chose it over Sinn and Stowa). But I would prefer a truncated applied index over the puny lume dot, and I don’t like the missing minute markers either. Lastly, they really could have gotten rid of the “PRESSURE RESISTANT” text when adding the “5 Days” text. Just because they are creeping up into Omega price territory doesn’t mean they have to give us an Omega-style novel on the dial. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Earl Grey

And the quick release is nifty, but I agree that adding a tool-less micro-adjust to the clasp would have been more useful and a better value add. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lukebennett21

Looks great, congrats Oris


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## munichblue

Earl Grey said:


> I am happy for Oris, but even happier that the Selitta versions will continue.
> 
> In particular, I find the aesthetics around the 6 o'clock marker to actually be a step backwards. I am a fan of bigger date complications (I have a Propilot and the big date was one of the reasons I chose it over Sinn and Stowa). But I would prefer a truncated applied index over the puny lume dot, and I don't like the missing minute markers either. Lastly, they really could have gotten rid of the "PRESSURE RESISTANT" text when adding the "5 Days" text. Just because they are creeping up into Omega price territory doesn't mean they have to give us an Omega-style novel on the dial.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I could have done without the Pressure Resistant as well, but I disagree with the 6 o'clock index. I am not a fan of cut indexes and find the solution with the dot much more appealing. And where are they with the Caliber 400 in Omega price territory?


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## Mr.Jones82

James_ said:


> Don't know why you keep going on about the bracelet being one of the best. It's a pretty average oyster style bracelet. Quite rattly too. The double push button release with double pins (?) is the only stand out thing. Yes it would be nice to have a ratcheting extension but still it wouldn't be as good as you make out. The quick release on the new one is a nice addition.


Rattly? Wow, not a complaint I ever thought I'd hear about an Aquis bracelet. I have watches that cost significantly more and I still consider it on par if not better than any of them. It is so incredibly comfortable. I'm curious, what bracelet do you think is better within its price range?


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## GregoryD

Good effort by Oris. I'll add to the pile here: why go to all that trouble but then keep the old clasp? At this point a tool-less clasp adjust is almost expected on new watches, and for a company like Oris that prides itself on offering value, I'm surprised they didn't include one.


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## Mr.Jones82

Also, I should add I disagree with a lot of the complaints about an Aquis housing the new movement. I think Oris is looking to move towards a more consistent design language and the Aquis is an excellent example of that and demonstrates that direction. They have solid, standout designs and I’m glad they have the confidence to release their new movement within one of them rather than contriving a new one just for the sake of it. Sure, it has changed hands, lugs, etc., but overall an Aquis is unmistakably an Aquis, and I think they’ve stumbled across some classic designs over the past 5-10 years that will allow them to settle into their own and build a unique and recognizable identity.
Also, kiddos on the price. That feels incredibly reasonable for a 10 year warranty and service interval, and also not outside of Oris’s overall dedication to affordable luxury.


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## adk225

Earl Grey said:


> I am happy for Oris, but even happier that the Selitta versions will continue.
> 
> In particular, I find the aesthetics around the 6 o'clock marker to actually be a step backwards. I am a fan of bigger date complications (I have a Propilot and the big date was one of the reasons I chose it over Sinn and Stowa). But I would prefer a truncated applied index over the puny lume dot, and I don't like the missing minute markers either. Lastly, they really could have gotten rid of the "PRESSURE RESISTANT" text when adding the "5 Days" text. Just because they are creeping up into Omega price territory doesn't mean they have to give us an Omega-style novel on the dial.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Agreed with all points. Less text and better date execution would have been nice. For me personally, I wish they would also do a no date version, let that dial shine...

Still, the new movement is definitely a big step for the Aquis, and as a fan of what Oris has been doing lately, I'm excited. My wife has shown some interest in my clean ocean LE, so maybe it's time to give it to her and use that as an excuse to upgrade to the new version 

View media item 15248686


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## Benno1uk

nonfatproduct said:


> This might be the first time I've ever seen someone refer to an Aquis bracelet as average.


Or rattly. Maybe he has a fake.


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## James_

OK so one of the best _for the price_ is a whole different kettle of fish.

Yes it has screwed links and the double pin clasp. Also the way it connects to the case is cool. The centre links have a nice peak to them. The clasp is mostly machined but the main part is stamped which I have no issue with as it gives it a thinner profile.

For a third or less _of the price_ I've had bracelets maybe as good as this so maybe better not go that route.

I'm not saying it's bad, just that the good things about it don't make it anything worth shouting about. Especially compared to how awesome the actual watch is.


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## James_

nonfatproduct said:


> This might be the first time I've ever seen someone refer to an Aquis bracelet as average.


Well stick around for a while longer and you'll understand that people have different opinions of what's "one of the best".


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## O .

Beautiful Aquis. I'm excited about the new movement, but I already have a 43mm Aquis, so I'll wait for the 41.5mm version of this to be released - hopefully in the same blue.

And I agree with others, a blue date wheel would be much appreciated.


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## WotRUBuyinWotRUSelin

Glad to see it in the Aquis personally. Since I just picked up my green Aquis earlier this year, I'm glad I went with it and not one of the blue dials or I would've immediately wished I held out for this one. I'm all watched out for some time, but this looks like a very solid addition and I'm glad to see another in-house movement join the ranks. 

I will be curious to see what accuracy it holds, being a bit obsessed with that aspect in general. After a regulation, my Sellita based Aquis is tracking about +2 to +3 SPD. My Sinn's SW220 out of the box was keeping +3 SPD, if the Caliber 400 can do that I'll consider that a win.


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## James_

Benno1uk said:


> Or rattly. Maybe he has a fake.


I resent your comment about having a fake.
I bought it from a well known AD and they registered it there and then on the Oris website. It is the titanium version which probably doesn't even have a fake version. The bracelet does rattle and it doesn't have to be a fake to do so. It is not an overly rattly bracelet but it will if shook a bit. In fact with the fake Aquis the fake bracelet is apparently indistinguishable from the real one.

(5 min he starts to talk about the bracelet)


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## GrimFandango

The competition at that price point is vastly different from the ~1.5k range they were in before. Previously they have always offered great value for money. I'd be interested to learn how this stacks up against the Breitling SuperOcean, Tudor Black Bay, and similar watches at the price point.


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## James_

Delete


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## sticky

Mmm, this hat tastes nice. So much for me predicting that Oris would put the 400 in a new watch.


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## WotRUBuyinWotRUSelin

GrimFandango said:


> The competition at that price point is vastly different from the ~1.5k range they were in before. Previously they have always offered great value for money. I'd be interested to learn how this stacks up against the Breitling SuperOcean, Tudor Black Bay, and similar watches at the price point.


Aren't most of them MSRP right at $2k+? The basic Aquis Date is $2,200 MSRP, unless you're talking used prices. Another $1,200-1,300 for an In-House movement seems reasonable given what little options there are in that range. Not arguing the case of does the In-House sufficiently add enough over the OTS movements though but 10 year warranty along with 10 year service interval is a big plus over the OTS ones. Though I wonder how many follow the every 5 year service vs. going more of a 10 year servicing interval anyway.


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## GrimFandango

WotRUBuyinWotRUSelin said:


> Another $1,200-1,300 for an In-House movement seems reasonable given what little options there are in that range.


Given the amount of R&D it takes and that Oris is an independent brand it seems more than reasonable. But if I try to play devil's advocate you could also argue that for example IWC and Tudor (among others) have recently added in-house movements to some of their watches without changing their price-point. That said, they were already at a higher price-point to begin with. And you could argue that until that point IWC had been overcharging for their Sellita movement watches. Somethingg Oris did not do.

Alright, so I talked myself out of that thought. Still though, if I look at actual prices (regardless of MSRP) in my country. Their competition at this price-point is vastly different from what it was. Also I was a bit off on my numbers before because I was thinking in Euros.


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## CRW161

I am interested in the "old" Aquis at $2200 or less, but don't think I would be in the market at 50% more than that, as there would be some quite strong competition in that price bracket.


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## Sparrowhawk

It will be interesting to see how the Oris Calibre 400 Aquis compares with the Damasko A26 in house DA3x watches that will be revealed in November.


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## adk225

CRW161 said:


> I am interested in the "old" Aquis at $2200 or less, but don't think I would be in the market at 50% more than that, as there would be some quite strong competition in that price bracket.


The "old" model frequently goes for ~30% (or even more) off even from ADs, so it will be interesting to see where the price settles down for the new caliber.


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## Yukoner1

James_ said:


> Took a video of the bracelet...


Ehhhhhhhhhhh....... I mean I've done this with different bracelets over the years (did it on my TAG just now to compare) and while yes, some are quieter than others, I don't think this is a good test measure. My TAG rattles more ON my wrist than it does jiggling it while off the wrist. On top of that, it also depends how tightly you're hugging your bracelet on your wrist. The looser you have it, the noisier it will be (obviously).

IMO, my Sixty-Five is the most comfortable bracelet I've had on a watch, period.


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## O .

Worn & Wound's pics show a more straightforward blue dial than the OP's pic








Personally, I prefer the originally posted pic's aquamarine hue to this.


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## dorningarts

James_ said:


> Don't know why you keep going on about the bracelet being one of the best. It's a pretty average oyster style bracelet. Quite rattly too. The double push button release with double pins (?) is the only stand out thing. Yes it would be nice to have a ratcheting extension but still it wouldn't be as good as you make out. The quick release on the new one is a nice addition.


I have owned a lot of dive watches under $2000 and the Oris bracelet is one of the best, if not the best I have owned or seen. Average? Not in my opinion


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## Rice and Gravy

Sparrowhawk said:


> It will be interesting to see how the Oris Calibre 400 Aquis compares with the Damasko A26 in house DA3x watches that will be revealed in November.


I am guessing not even close. Other than both being in house and adjusted in a few positions, the equal footing in a comparison probably ends there.


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## gto05z

O . said:


> Beautiful Aquis. I'm excited about the new movement, but I already have a 43mm Aquis, so I'll wait for the 41.5mm version of this to be released - hopefully in the same blue.
> 
> And I agree with others, a blue date wheel would be much appreciated.


I believe the movement will only fit a 43.5mm case, too big for a 41.5mm, so you may be out of luck


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## O .

gto05z said:


> I believe the movement will only fit a 43.5mm case, too big for a 41.5mm, so you may be out of luck


Though slightly larger than the Sellita at 28mm x 4.75mm, it should fit into any Aquis.


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## munichblue

gto05z said:


> I believe the movement will only fit a 43.5mm case, too big for a 41.5mm, so you may be out of luck


The movement can go down to 38mm.


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## Tanker G1

I've settled into a weekly rotation with my watches, picking a new one each Monday, so IDK if the very cool 5-day PR really means much to me. Thankfully, it's also easy for me to say no to this particular release because I already have 3 blue Aquis - Clipperton, SOL, and Baikal. Each one performs exceptionally well. 

Congrats to Oris. I'm excited to see the future releases and upcoming reviews of the new movement.


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## JTK Awesome

Looks suspiciously like my Lake Baikal  I guess I know why my AD cut me a deal.

I'm curious to see where this goes but not motivated to drop another $3500 on the brand. Though I do covet the quick-change strap/bracelet, would've saved me $45 on my Horofix Triwing.


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## Benno1uk

James_ said:


> I resent your comment about having a fake.
> I bought it from a well known AD and they registered it there and then on the Oris website. It is the titanium version which probably doesn't even have a fake version. The bracelet does rattle and it doesn't have to be a fake to do so. It is not an overly rattly bracelet but it will if shook a bit. In fact with the fake Aquis the fake bracelet is apparently indistinguishable from the real one.
> 
> (5 min he starts to talk about the bracelet)


You didn't mention it was Titanium in your initial post. The steel version certainly isn't rattly. I have a Titanium Citizen Promaster and the bracelet on that is rattly. I guess Titanium bracelets tend to rattle more due to their relative lightness.


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## Robotaz

Badass watch. Absolutely love it. Probably my favorite release in at least 5 years, maybe 10.


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## boostmiser

I had an Aquis as a daily beater. I thought it was a good looking watch and a great bang for the buck. My only shortcomings were:
-On the verge of being too large. I think they could go a little smaller. Rumor is a 39.5mm version might be made? That would be perfect.
-Just a little too thick. Could be fixed with the smaller diameter case.
-Those lugs .. that don’t allow standard straps to fit. This was my main gripe. I wanted some variety with rubber straps. I had the Oris bracelet and Oris black rubber strap. The rubber was nice but the Oris clasp was too chunky. 

Fix the lugs and I can live with the size. Love the color combo (Aqua/blue sunburst) and 5 day reserve. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Robotaz

Rice and Gravy said:


> I am guessing not even close. Other than both being in house and adjusted in a few positions, the equal footing in a comparison probably ends there.


Damasko lied for years and years about their technology. I don't trust anything they say. No matter how ridiculous the price of the Damasko, it won't hold a candle. Watch.


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## WotRUBuyinWotRUSelin

boostmiser said:


> I had an Aquis as a daily beater. I thought it was a good looking watch and a great bang for the buck. My only shortcomings were:
> -On the verge of being too large. I think they could go a little smaller. Rumor is a 39.5mm version might be made? That would be perfect.
> -Just a little too thick. Could be fixed with the smaller diameter case.
> -Those lugs .. that don't allow standard straps to fit. This was my main gripe. I wanted some variety with rubber straps. I had the Oris bracelet and Oris black rubber strap. The rubber was nice but the Oris clasp was too chunky.
> 
> Fix the lugs and I can live with the size. Love the color combo (Aqua/blue sunburst) and 5 day reserve.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wouldn't expect much thickness difference. The 43.5mm Sellita based Aquis was 12.6mm and the 39.5mm was 12.5mm. If you're after a watch to support a bunch of straps, you'd be better off going with the Sixty-Five and not the Aquis. I have no plan to ever take my Aquis off its bracelet since it is so nice. The design is why it's able to taper the way it does.


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## Mr.Jones82

GrimFandango said:


> The competition at that price point is vastly different from the ~1.5k range they were in before. Previously they have always offered great value for money. I'd be interested to learn how this stacks up against the Breitling SuperOcean, Tudor Black Bay, and similar watches at the price point.


Yeah, but it'll be discounted and sell for less than either of those models anyway which is going to put it in really a league of its own.
I never bought a ticket for the BB hype train so hard for me to say. As for the Breitling, they're both high quality yet one has an inhouse movement and the other doesn't and its MSRP is 2k more. I love Breitling bracelets and find the individual articulation and design quite unique, and like Oris I have heard their straps are terrific. Like Oris, the bracelet clasp suffers from not having toolless adjustment and unless they've upped their game recently it is stamped and feels significantly lower quality than the Aquis. I think the SO is finished better and I really don't have an issue with their COSC 2824's considering they heavily modify them and they're spot on.
Sorry, rambling. Anyway, I think when the price settles it'll sell for a bit less than 3k...again, I'm not sure there are any Swiss brands out there with an inhouse for that price. Ball? Meh, they're quite ugly in my opinion. For German watches, Damasko could be an option around that price.
I think for me the question isn't whether I find it a value at that price, but whether an Omega Seamaster for almost a couple more thousand is worth the price difference (or Seiko Marinemaster?) or more realistically just going used and getting one for about the same price as the Aquis msrp?


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## JunkerJorge

munichblue said:


> Here it is, the new standard: Oris Aquis Date 400
> 
> I'm over the moon...
> 
> View attachment 15523258
> 
> 
> View attachment 15523260


Looks amazing!


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## ChronoTraveler

Engineer Wannabe from YouTube mentioned quite a few problems with the watch:







Minute hand jumps when pulling the crown to second position
Minute hand also jumps when returning the crown to the first position (winding position)
Apparently, power reserve issues


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## ofted42

Interesting. If I remember right most of my Valjoux 7750 based watches have jumped when I pulled it in and out to set the time. My Damasko was the worst culprit. After some experimentation I learned where to set it so it "jumped" to the indice when pushed back in. Not sure what causes it though.


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## Mr.Jones82

ChronoTraveler said:


> Engineer Wannabe from YouTube mentioned quite a few problems with the watch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minute hand jumps when pulling the crown to second position
> Minute hand also jumps when returning the crown to the first position (winding position)
> Apparently, power reserve issues


I've never had the hands jump when I pull out the crown, but every watch I've ever owned jumps a bit when I push the crown back in. I never really thought of it as an issue, but I will say if the minute hand on my watch jumped as much as his did when pulling the crown out that would annoy me.


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## NC_Hager626

ChronoTraveler said:


> Engineer Wannabe from YouTube mentioned quite a few problems with the watch:
> Minute hand jumps when pulling the crown to second position
> 
> Minute hand also jumps when returning the crown to the first position (winding position)
> Apparently, power reserve issues


Thanks for posting. My only question after watching this video is whether or not it is an isolated incident or not.


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## WotRUBuyinWotRUSelin

NC_Hager626 said:


> Thanks for posting. My only question after watching this video is whether or not it is an isolated incident or not.


More than likely an isolated incident, videos and posts about issues with something new always garner more attention than more praise everyone's already heard.


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## Alysandir

NC_Hager626 said:


> My only question after watching this video is whether or not it is an isolated incident or not.


I'm afraid it is not; my Aquis 400 does it as well - intermittently - both going in and coming out of the hacking position. In my case, the minute hand will jump counter-clockwise anywhere from 1-4 minutes. I find that this can be somewhat mitigated if one uses an extremely light touch coming out of hacking, which is really the one direction that is cause for concern (going into hacking, you can always re-adjust the hand). I cannot speak to Wannabe Engineer's claims about the power reserve.

However, I will add that while the watch seems - for the most part - to keep outstanding time, I did pick it up after having not touched it for two days and found it ten minutes fast. I don't understand what happened there at all and cannot seem to replicate it. I have sent my findings to Oris via my dealer and am awaiting comment.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## ofted42

Did you see his follow up video? Looks like Oris got back to him with a method to fix this, and it seems to work. Won't try to describe it here but it's not something I've ever had to do on a watch before when hacking. At least there does seem to be a method that takes care of this though.


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## Joocebawks808

Looking forward to more dial color options. I prefer the dark blue of the previous Aquis model, but the new movement has convinced me to wait.


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## NC_Hager626

ofted42 said:


> Did you see his follow up video? Looks like Oris got back to him with a method to fix this, and it seems to work. Won't try to describe it here but it's not something I've ever had to do on a watch before when hacking. At least there does seem to be a method that takes care of this though.


Here is the follow-up video - wiggling the crown back and forth before moving the crown out to align the gears seems like a cumbersome fix.


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## Yukoner1

So I got to see this reference in-person (I flew 900 miles to go see it, anyone else want to beat that kind of commitment ? 😁 ). It's a beautiful watch, but honestly, if you forget about the movement, it's nothing that different from a lot of the existing Aquis line up. The dial is no doubt very nice, but I have a GBR III already and have been eyeing up a Lake Baikal, so I don't think I need _another_ blue dialed watch, especially if it's not an LE......

That being said, if we're talking movement-specific - DEFINTIELY differences here. Manual winding is a MUCH different feel than the Sellitas that power most Aquis references. It's extremely smooth and quiet, a really nice feel. The exhibitionist caseback is also quite a marvel. The movement is really nicely decorated and visually pleasing. I was wondering if the lack of the Oris red rotor (something of a marketing / brand image, at this point) would be a disappointment. This is not the case, for me anyways. Also, once you've seen the Oris bear in the movement, you can't un-see it 😅.

All in all, I think this is going to be a very interesting movement for Oris. I personally will be waiting for a different design to pick up my first cali-bear 400 (I actually picked up something different at my AD, which will be showing up soon !), but for anyone looking for a blue dialed Aquis, I can definitely recommend checking this one out in person.


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## whineboy

Robotaz said:


> Damasko lied for years and years about their technology. I don't trust anything they say. No matter how ridiculous the price of the Damasko, it won't hold a candle. Watch.


Can you give more details, without exposing yourself to libel? For the record, I love both my Damaskos.

Having a great time.

whineboy


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## kritameth

NC_Hager626 said:


> Here is the follow-up video - wiggling the crown back and forth before moving the crown out to align the gears seems like a cumbersome fix.


Doesn't seem to work every time he tried it? It is a strange issue indeed, hopefully Oris can sort it out soon.


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## munichblue

kritameth said:


> Doesn't seem to work every time he tried it? It is a strange issue indeed, hopefully Oris can sort it out soon.


They won't sort it out because it isn't a strange issue.


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## kritameth

munichblue said:


> They won't sort it out because it isn't a strange issue.


I've never had the minute hand jump several minutes while pulling out or pushing in the crown. Are you saying it's a common issue?


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## Benno1uk

ChronoTraveler said:


> Engineer Wannabe from YouTube mentioned quite a few problems with the watch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minute hand jumps when pulling the crown to second position
> Minute hand also jumps when returning the crown to the first position (winding position)
> Apparently, power reserve issues


My Sellita version doesn't have any issues like this. Maybe this is a case of don't fix what isn't broken?


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## Yukoner1

This is exactly why the first reference to house the new movement was put into a tried, tested and true model (the Aquis). These problems are to be expected with a brand new mechanical mechanism like this, and I'm sure Oris will be working out the kinks in the months to come. It's kind of like buying the first model year of a new car. I've done that WAYYYYYYY too many times, and I should know better by now 😅


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## Robotaz

Unacceptable. I highly suspect this issue will never be fixed. 

It’s laughable that Oris would bother telling people how accurate the watch is, but you can’t set it correctly. That’s insulting.

I will not be buying one of these.


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## Yukoner1

Robotaz said:


> Unacceptable. I highly suspect this issue will never be fixed.
> 
> It's laughable that Oris would bother telling people how accurate the watch is, but you can't set it correctly. That's insulting.
> 
> I will not be buying one of these.


So TBF, I'm not sure if this is "normal" for the new reference. I personally held, wore and played around with this new reference, and I moved all the crown positions and adjusted the hands at least a dozen times. Not once did the hands move when I pushed the crown back in. I don't think this how the watch is "supposed to be". I can 100% confirm that you CAN set the time correctly.


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## munichblue

Robotaz said:


> Unacceptable. I highly suspect this issue will never be fixed.
> 
> It's laughable that Oris would bother telling people how accurate the watch is, but you can't set it correctly. That's insulting.
> 
> I will not be buying one of these.


Do we want to stay factual and break the emotional discussion down into the essential components?

That the hands jump when you want to set the watch is not elegant, but also not unusual. This also happens with other movements from other manufacturers. But at the same time it is completely irrelevant for the actual process: you want to reset the Watch. It doesn't matter whether the hands jump for one or four seconds at the start of the process.

The second point is whether the hands move again when you press the crown. And that is not the case with the feedback from Oris and the video shown here, if you proceed as specified. And again this is not unusual and is already being done by thousands of watch owners today.

But again: what matters is how exactly you can set the watch, not whether the hands move to start this process.

So I can't understand the fuss. But somehow yes. There are some who don't get along so well with the fact that Oris is offering an in-house movement for 3k and the previous holy grail, which cost twice as much, has been questioned.

And by the way, it's your own decision If you would or would not buy this watch. But I can assure you, nobody cares!


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## Robotaz

munichblue said:


> That the hands jump when you want to set the watch is not elegant, but also not unusual. This also happens with other movements from other manufacturers. But at the same time it is completely irrelevant for the actual process: you want to reset the Watch. It doesn't matter whether the hands jump for one or four seconds at the start of the process.
> 
> The second point is whether the hands move again when you press the crown. And that is not the case with the feedback from Oris and the video shown here, if you proceed as specified. And again this is not unusual and is already being done by thousands of watch owners today.
> 
> But again: what matters is how exactly you can set the watch, not whether the hands move to start this process.
> 
> So I can't understand the fuss. But somehow yes. There are some who don't get along so well with the fact that Oris is offering an in-house movement for 3k and the previous holy grail, which cost twice as much, has been questioned.
> 
> And by the way, it's your own decision If you would or would not buy this watch. But I can assure you, nobody cares!


I guess English is not your native language. No problem.

It is absolutely unusual for the hands to move when pushing the crown in. I've owned at least 1,000 watches and yes it is absolutely abnormal.

If I can't set the watch with the hands in the correct position, I have no desire to own one. It's hard to believe people will make excuses for it, but if you want to, more power to you. Just don't expect me to go along.


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## munichblue

Robotaz said:


> I guess English is not your native language. No problem.
> 
> It is absolutely unusual for the hands to move when pushing the crown in. I've owned at least 1,000 watches and yes it is absolutely abnormal.
> 
> *If I can't set the watch with the hands in the correct position*, I have no desire to own one. It's hard to believe people will make excuses for it, but if you want to, more power to you. Just don't expect me to go along.


No, English is not my native language. Therefore I'm trying for the second time to correct one of your misunderstandings. *You can set the watch with the hands in the correct position*! It's proven in the video above and based on my own experience. I am using the watch for more than 10 days now.


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## Yukoner1

munichblue said:


> No, English is not my native language. Therefore I'm trying for the second time to correct one of your misunderstandings. *You can set the watch with the hands in the correct position*! It's proven in the video above and based on my own experience. I am using the watch for more than 10 days now.


+1 to this, as I can personally confirm that I was also able, at least a dozen times, to set the time in the position I desired. I did not experience jumping hands at any point.


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## steelcityfishanddive

Already a used one up for sale at a discount.


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## ronan_zj

For $3000+, you get a watch with jumping minute hand, and non-COSC certified watch... I would pass unless the jumping hand issue is solved/fixed.


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## Archer

Robotaz said:


> It is absolutely unusual for the hands to move when pushing the crown in. I've owned at least 1,000 watches and yes it is absolutely abnormal.


I've serviced many more thousands than you have owned, and this is most certainly not "normal" for the hands to move like the video shows. Someone telling you that this is not a problem is gaslighting you...

To help explain, here's a typical manual winding watch movement showing the dial side winding/setting parts, and this first image the crown is in the winding position:



The red arrow on the far right points to the winding pinion - this engages with the crown wheel and winds the movement, but only when the part shown by the middle red arrow is on contact with the winding pinion. That part is the sliding pinion. The part shown by the far left red arrow is the intermediate setting wheel.

Here is the same movement in the time setting position:



When you pull the crown out, the sliding pinion moves away from the winding pinion, and the teeth of the sliding pinion have to mesh with the teeth of the intermediate setting wheel. The meshing of those teeth is not always spot on, so when you pull the crown out it may turn the setting wheel as those teeth mesh, and that in turn moves the cannon pinion and the other wheels in this area, and as a result the hands move.

This is not uncommon, so yes movement when pulling the crown out is "normal." How often it does it and how much the hands move will depends on how much backlash there is in all the wheels from the sliding pinion to the cannon pinion.

What is absolutely not normal is the hands jumping when you push the crown back in. In this case the wheels on the watch I'm showing are simply disengaging, so there nothing to turn them unless the user accidentally turns the crown as they are pushing the crown in. It's clear from the video this isn't happening, so there's something in the setting design that Oris has used that is causing this.

If I were to have this problem on the watch movement that I've used here for illustration, I would suspect that the cannon pinion is too loose, allowing the hands to move too easily. I can't say if this is the problem on the Oris movement or not, because I don't know the design of the setting mechanism, and how everything moves relative to the cannon pinion when the crown is pushed in. But this is not normal by any means.

Cheers, Al


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## Yukoner1

Archer said:


> But this is not normal by any means.


I would agree that hands moving when crown being pushed in is something I would not accept as "normal" either. That being said, we have yet to hear of this problem en-mass. There are several folks who own this watch ( @munichblue for example) and don't have this problem. There are others, like myself, who have spent some time with this watch, in-person at an AD, that have not seen this issue. At this point, if someone _is indeed_ experiencing a problem when pushing the crown in, that would seem like something's wrong with that particular example, vs a "this is how they all are" scenario.


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## Robotaz

Yukoner1 said:


> I would agree that hands moving when crown being pushed in is something I would not accept as "normal" either. That being said, we have yet to hear of this problem en-mass. There are several folks who own this watch ( @munichblue for example) and don't have this problem. There are others, like myself, who have spent some time with this watch, in-person at an AD, that have not seen this issue. At this point, if someone _is indeed_ experiencing a problem when pushing the crown in, that would seem like something's wrong with that particular example, vs a "this is how they all are" scenario.


The problem is that Oris makes excuses for it and claims fiddling with the crown is normal. We know it's not. If Oris just accepted they have an issue and fixed the offending instances, I'd have no issues other than disappointment. As it is, they have not just disappointed me. They've turned me off.


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## Yukoner1

Robotaz said:


> The problem is that Oris makes excuses for it and claims fiddling with the crown is normal. We know it's not. If Oris just accepted they have an issue and fixed the offending instances, I'd have no issues other than disappointment. As it is, they have not just disappointed me. They've turned me off.


?‍♀ Can't really comment on that because I don't have an example that's having this problem. We also don't have someone here who is experiencing the problem and showing us what Oris is saying / doing / not doing for them, in real time. Look, we can all find a YouTube video on _any product in the world_ from someone who claims they've been wronged. In _some_ instances the gripe is legitimate. In many instances, it's not. Also, how people interact with businesses has an impact on the results as well. "ORIS YOU SUCK THIS THING IS BROKEN AND YOU MAKE CRAPPY WATCHES" will illicit a much different response than "Hey so I bought this watch and it's having this problem, just wondering how I can get that fixed ?". These are all variables we have no control over, and quite frankly, we have no idea how someone like a YouTuber approached their problem.

Either way, all I can say for certain is, I have had this reference in my hands and it did not produce either of the problems being discussed.

If what you're seeing turns you off from Oris, OK then. That's the perks of a free market economy, you can choose where you spend your dollars


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## Robotaz

Yukoner1 said:


> Can't really comment on that because I don't have an example that's having this problem. We also don't have someone here who is experiencing the problem and showing us what Oris is saying / doing / not doing for them, in real time.


The guy on YouTube is plenty proof of what's going on for me.

I love Oris, and I want to love this new Aquis. Right now, there's no way I'd buy one unless I could go in the AD, and I don't have an Oris AD within hundreds of miles of me. I have to buy online.


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## Alysandir

I will add to my previous comment the following information I received from Oris regarding the jumping-minute hand issue:



> Please see below from CH
> 
> This is not a defect, not an error, not a technical problem. This is normal due to the design.
> 1. 2 gear wheels come out of engagement or come back into engagement.
> 2. when the crown is pressed in, the teeth of the said gears must be able to align with each other in order to engage. Since we have little play due to the precision of the construction and tooth design, the effect is more pronounced than with other calibers (the other side of the coin...)
> 3. a screw-in crown (as on the aquis) can intensify the phenomenon, as the crown is under more tension (spring) than a normal crown (increased effect especially when the crown is pulled out).
> 4. correct handling to reduce this phenomenon: turn the crown slightly back and forth before pulling it out or pushing it in
> 5. all this has no negative influence on the precision and accuracy of the Cal. 400.


Having researched this problem while I was awaiting a response from Oris, I found other discussions concerning references from JLC and AP that apparently had the same issue. In those discussions, moving the minute hand past the desired set time - say, five minutes - and then moving the minute hand counter-clockwise to the desired set time, and only then pushing in the crown, the issue does not occur. Supposedly, doing this "relieves tension" but I could not say how or why. Hopefully @Archer would be inclined to weigh in on this.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## Yukoner1

Robotaz said:


> The guy on YouTube is plenty proof of what's going on for me.
> 
> I love Oris, and I want to love this new Aquis. Right now, there's no way I'd buy one unless I could go in the AD, and I don't have an Oris AD within hundreds of miles of me. I have to buy online.


Fair enough, but is it only ONE person's experience. And again, have to take everything with a grain of salt these days.

Nearest AD is 923 miles via airplane for me. I think I got you beat


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## Archer

Alysandir said:


> I will add to my previous comment the following information I received from Oris regarding the jumping-minute hand issue:
> 
> Having researched this problem while I was awaiting a response from Oris, I found other discussions concerning references from JLC and AP that apparently had the same issue. In those discussions, moving the minute hand past the desired set time - say, five minutes - and then moving the minute hand counter-clockwise to the desired set time, and only then pushing in the crown, the issue does not occur. Supposedly, doing this "relieves tension" but I could not say how or why. Hopefully @Archer would be inclined to weigh in on this.
> 
> Regards,
> Alysandir


If Oris is saying this is "normal due to the design" then why is it not happening on all watches? So that doesn't make any sense.

The description of how it happens also doesn't make sense unless they are using a very unusual setting design. As I've illustrated on the previous page, there is certainly a chance that hands can move when the crown I pulled out, but not really when it's pushed in.

They way they describe the spring in the screw down crown being a contributing factor, makes me think they believe that people are slightly turning the crown as they push the crown back in. That doesn't seem to be the case based on what people who have seen this are describing.

I can tell you that turning the crown back and forth doesn't "relieve tension" in any way...the method of setting the hand past the time you want and backing it up is a way of taking up the backlash in the teeth of the wheels, not anything to do with tension.

Cheers, Al


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## Alysandir

Archer said:


> I can tell you that turning the crown back and forth doesn't "relieve tension" in any way...the method of setting the hand past the time you want and backing it up is a way of taking up the backlash in the teeth of the wheels, not anything to do with tension.
> 
> Cheers, Al


Just to clarify, the bit about relieving tension did not come from Oris, but from the other discussions I found describing this phenomenon with other watches. Everything I have from Oris is in the quoted section of my previous post. I was just sharing what I'd found.

To your point, what is "taking up backlash?" And why would backlash create the observed phenomenon? Because that appears to be what Oris is saying, that not taking up backlash is what's causing the minute hand to jump.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## Archer

Alysandir said:


> Just to clarify, the bit about relieving tension did not come from Oris, but from the other discussions I found describing this phenomenon with other watches. Everything I have from Oris is in the quoted section of my previous post. I was just sharing what I'd found.
> 
> To your point, what is "taking up backlash?" And why would backlash create the observed phenomenon? Because that appears to be what Oris is saying, that not taking up backlash is what's causing the minute hand to jump.
> 
> Regards,
> Alysandir











Definition of BACKLASH


a sudden violent backward movement or reaction; the play between adjacent movable parts (as in a series of gears); also : the jar caused by this when the parts are put into action; a snarl in that part of a fishing line wound on the reel… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com





1b is the kind of backlash being discussed here. It is the play (clearance) between the teeth of gears.

Backlash doesn't create the observed phenomenon. That's one reason why the explanation doesn't really make any sense.


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## Alwaysontime12

Then there is the argument that watches over 1500 dollars shouldn't function like a $200 SKX. I've said it before and I'll say it again.....we need to start demanding more from these companies. It's very easy to become complacent when being in this hobby a longtime. Bottom line is that 3k + for a watch is a lot of money, we tend to forget this and we just "live with it". I say no more, start demanding them to do better. I recently purchased a brand new Tudor chrono and it runs 5 sec slow, the winding is extremely loud with a lot of resistance and the rotor is very audible. I have 400 dollar Hamiltons that function almost flawlessly and my 5k Tudor chrono has all those "quirks". What ever you do, don't let them railroad you. As a previous poster said though, be polite. It goes a long way


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## Robotaz

Alwaysontime12 said:


> Then there is the argument that watches over 1500 dollars shouldn't function like a $200 SKX. I've said it before and I'll say it again.....we need to start demanding more from these companies. It's very easy to become complacent when being in this hobby a longtime. Bottom line is that 3k + for a watch is a lot of money, we tend to forget this and we just "live with it". I say no more, start demanding them to do better. I recently purchased a brand new Tudor chrono and it runs 5 sec slow, the winding is extremely loud with a lot of resistance and the rotor is very audible. I have 400 dollar Hamiltons that function almost flawlessly and my 5k Tudor chrono has all those "quirks". What ever you do, don't let them railroad you. As a previous poster said though, be polite. It goes a long way


Amen, brother. This applies to a lot more than the Oris 400.


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## kritameth

No, we shouldn't do anything. I don't have a problem with mine so there's no problem. You are smoking quack. 

Is what I've been told.


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## Alwaysontime12

Robotaz said:


> Amen, brother. This applies to a lot more than the Oris 400.





Robotaz said:


> Amen, brother. This applies to a lot more than the Oris 400.


That was the point of my post exactly. Apply this to all watches with b.s problems


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## Yukoner1

Alwaysontime12 said:


> Then there is the argument that watches over 1500 dollars shouldn't function like a $200 SKX. I've said it before and I'll say it again.....we need to start demanding more from these companies. It's very easy to become complacent when being in this hobby a longtime. Bottom line is that 3k + for a watch is a lot of money, we tend to forget this and we just "live with it". I say no more, start demanding them to do better. I recently purchased a brand new Tudor chrono and it runs 5 sec slow, the winding is extremely loud with a lot of resistance and the rotor is very audible. I have 400 dollar Hamiltons that function almost flawlessly and my 5k Tudor chrono has all those "quirks". What ever you do, don't let them railroad you. As a previous poster said though, be polite. It goes a long way


I don't disagree with you on principle, not at all. But, I have come to realize, that is not how the luxury goods market works (this extends far beyond watches). Ask anyone who owns a "luxury" motor vehicle, be it BMW, Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Ranger Rover, etc. Luxury /= reliability, at least not in the way that we think of reliability.


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## Alwaysontime12

Yukoner1 said:


> I don't disagree with you on principle, not at all. But, I have come to realize, that is not how the luxury goods market works (this extends far beyond watches). Ask anyone who owns a "luxury" motor vehicle, be it BMW, Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Ranger Rover, etc. Luxury /= reliability, at least not in the way that we think of reliability.


I understand what you're saying. I've owned several Mercedes and an Audi. They're hit and miss with reliability but the function of the item is a necessity for life. I would think that these watch companies would understand that people wear watches for enjoyment and not so much function anymore.


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## Jeff Scott

Alwaysontime12 said:


> ...people wear watches for enjoyment and not so much function anymore.


I'm the odd man out, then............


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## 6L35

The youtuber Bruce Williams says he hasn't found any of the problems described.


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## Mr.Jones82

6L35 said:


> The youtuber Bruce Williams says he hasn't found any of the problems described.


The guy who purchased a fake Aquis, did a review on it unknowingly, and then eventually was informed in the comments by viewers that he'd purchased a fake?


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## 6L35

Mr.Jones82 said:


> The guy who purchased a fake Aquis, did a review on it unknowingly, and then eventually was informed in the comments by viewers that he'd purchased a fake?


ROTFL

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## kritameth

Mr.Jones82 said:


> The guy who purchased a fake Aquis, did a review on it unknowingly, and then eventually was informed in the comments by viewers that he'd purchased a fake?


?? Leaves an Air-King on the roof of the car before driving off, watch gets run over by several cars, makes a video dry-eye-tearing and begging for donation, claiming that was to be his last video on YouTube ever. Also the same guy.


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## Mr.Jones82

kritameth said:


> 😂😂 Leaves an Air-King on the roof of the car before driving off, watch gets run over by several cars, makes a video dry-eye-tearing and begging for donation, claiming that was to be his last video on YouTube ever. Also the same guy.


Hahahaha I heard about that, but never saw it. I believe he removed the video later on down the road. Brilliant! hahaha!


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## yokied

Can’t beat forums. I had no idea about Bruce Williams. Deary me. He seemed reasonable on the video I saw a while back. Then again, at least he isn’t peddling fake Rolexes.


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## Yukoner1

yokied said:


> Can't beat forums. I had no idea about Bruce Williams. Deary me. He seemed reasonable on the video I saw a while back. Then again, at least he isn't peddling fake Rolexes.


?‍♀ I've watched a few of his reviews and didn't mind them.


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## MX793

Yukoner1 said:


> 🤷‍♀️ I've watched a few of his reviews and didn't mind them.


I don't think he really knows much about watches. He also comes off as a bit of shill at times.


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## Yukoner1

MX793 said:


> I don't think he really knows much about watches. He also comes off as a bit of shill at times.


Very possible. Honestly, I watch them more to get a better visual of the aesthetics, not so much to understand accuracy or whatever mechanics.


----------

