# Project Key West Custom NATO: CincyStraps



## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Per our conversation in the KW strap thread, some members have expressed an interest in a particular NATO strap that would compliment the KW wonderfully. Zach from Cincy Strap Works (based in Ohio) came forward and seems more then happy to help this actually happen. Very cool as his straps looks exceptional.

So, in the spirit of this brand and the strong community collaboration on projects, I wanted to start a thread that will house the various design stages and to see how many people might be interested in something like this. I have been speaking with Zach and there are many VERY cool options that we can do to really make this strap our own. 
The basic idea is to produce something like this:









What I would like to do is have the colors match the KW's Pepsi (sorry Coke fans) insert as close as possible. Zach said there is no problem matching colors if I can provide him Pantone colors...which I can. I actually reached out to Bill about this. I know he has not released the new update (which I really hope has pix of fully assembled watches) so the details of the bezel colors are still a bit of a mystery. He has said that the blue is VERY dark. I can only assume that the red will be a bit on the deeper side then to better replicate the original bakelit bezels of the 6542. Either way, if BIll can provide some guidance on this, we might be able to get a strap that is spot on color-wise!

Something that I think is super cool is that Zach said we might be able to do some custom engraving on the buckle, or even on some of the other hardware. Now THAT would be cool, really set this strap apart, and make it that much more special. We would have to figure out what that would be of course but hey, thats what this thread is all about, right?

So, allow me some time to get back up to speed from this storm and I will begin to draw up the strap and list out some options. PLEASE let me know what you think, if your interested and all that good stuff.

Cheers,
B


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

Super interested! Would have been awesome to have a Coke variant, but know that might be a big problem to coordinate (especially with people NOT knowing which variant they are going to get). I'd be in for a Pepsi and a Coke if we have that option.

I'm thinking it would be nice to have gold hardware to work with the gilt? 

As to the engraving, I think it would be cool to just have the words "Key West" and that way we are not requesting anyone's trademark.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Having owned my Gilt Kingston for many many years, and trying it on a gold hardware NATO, it just didnt work in my eyes. Id be interested to hear what others say but I think the gold hardware up against the SS case looks off. Now, if we were talking about a two-tone rootbeer GMT, now that would be another story


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## Eksdad (May 16, 2011)

I'm in.


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

Hey guys! Like Brian said we've talked about some minor details. The hardware engraving I think is definitely something cool that can be done to set it a part and make it special. Something like Key West would be awesome and very fitting obviously.

Some background. Cincy Strap Works is pretty young, and if you don't frequent f71, I'm not offended you haven't heard about it! As a fairly young company, I was a little afraid to take on custom project straps for fellow WIS (we know how detail oriented we all are right?), but I just completed two custom straps for the f71 Commander Project being made by Lew & Huey, as well as a custom black argyle that is getting ready to start shipping. I have faith that my manufacturer would be able to churn us out a fantastic product at a hard to beat price!

Excited to see what comes of this project and happy to be a part of it!


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## Elf1962 (May 13, 2014)

Would it be possible to have both a coke and pepsi version? Black should not be too difficult to match.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Depends on the interest in these I guess. The design themselves are generic enough that I would think others would be interested in the strap. Blue with red and white and black with red and white are pretty universally awesome color combos. I guess we will just have to see.

Wanted to let everyone know that I spoke with Bill and he approves of this little side project and it being posted here. Just wanted to make that clear early on.


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

Elf1962 said:


> Would it be possible to have both a coke and pepsi version? Black should not be too difficult to match.


Possibly. It all depends on the number of interested/committed parties. MOQs are quite high for custom straps.


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## CBM_DOC (Feb 26, 2006)

I am definitely interested.

Dave


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## jh9t (Mar 26, 2010)

Nice, count me in.


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## Pentameter (Aug 14, 2014)

I'm in


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

zachste said:


> Possibly. It all depends on the number of interested/committed parties. MOQs are quite high for custom straps.


Well then, I'm in for both!


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm in for two....


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## eganwh (Jan 15, 2009)

Count me in as well. And, thanks for taking on this project.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Ok, I'm going to need a way to keep track of how many or figure out a better way to get responses. Excited to get into this they so many are already on board. 

Before I left the office I made my first sketch. Pretty simple stuff really as I think we are all into the initial design. It will be the colors that really set this baby apart.


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## Elf1962 (May 13, 2014)

.


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## Elf1962 (May 13, 2014)

In for both coke and pepsi if that's possible. Actually just bought one from their website to see how they are.


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## Dutchman72 (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm definitely in for a pepsi. 


Sent from beyond the stars


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Just some quick mock ups. I can not finalize the colors until I know what the bezel will be using. Bill, being as amazing as he is, has agreed to release to me the Pantone colors used if and when this project gets the green light AND that they stay completely confidential. We will provide those PMS color codes to the factory and have a strap that is truly built for the watch! As I have stated in the design thread ages ago, your monitor is a terrible representation of color. The best way to do things with a Pnatone (PMS) book in front of your own eyes. With that, here is what I mocked up. 
1. Navy blue with bright red
2. Navy blue with a deeper red/maroon (not sure what Bill went with in the end)
3. Midnight blue with the deeper red/maroon. 








In the end, the color options are useless as we will be going with the true colors but I thought I would have a bit of fun. Also, I built this strap using the MOD G10 spec sheet. Not sure what Cincy is using so hardware may shift around a bit. Obviously nothing major as I have heard really great things about his straps.


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

Mock ups look great Brian! Really digging number two and three.


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## thejollywatcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Pepsi for me and I just bought a F71 Commander with brushed hardware from the site


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## gwold (Jun 21, 2010)

66Cooper said:


> Just some quick mock ups. I can not finalize the colors until I know what the bezel will be using. Bill, being as amazing as he is, has agreed to release to me the Pantone colors used if and when this project gets the green light AND that they stay completely confidential. We will provide those PMS color codes to the factory and have a strap that is truly built for the watch! As I have stated in the design thread ages ago, your monitor is a terrible representation of color. The best way to do things with a Pnatone (PMS) book in front of your own eyes. With that, here is what I mocked up.
> 1. Navy blue with bright red
> 2. Navy blue with a deeper red/maroon (not sure what Bill went with in the end)
> 3. Midnight blue with the deeper red/maroon.
> ...


Count me in for one. I'm buying the watch for my stepson, so don't know what combo he'll choose yet (we're round 1), but regardless, he'll be getting one of these NATOs as well, and he'll like it!


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## Packleader (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm in for a pepsi. And a coke, if possible.

Cheers,
Packleader


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

I'd be interested in the Pepsi version, but I'd like to know how long your straps are. I have an 8 inch wrist and I've bought some nato straps that just weren't long enough to comfortable tuck back properly. Any chance of doing something a little fancier, like the nylon strap that Tudor includes with the Black Bay? I'm referring to the sewn in spring bars, not the pattern.

Copied from the internet:


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Would love to but that would require the factory to totally reinvent itself. Doubtful I'm afraid.


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## fastfras (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm in for a Pepsi.


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## Elf1962 (May 13, 2014)

Thought I would give a Cincy Strap a try. It arrived in 2 days 
So far I like it









_post moved from a different thread_


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm awaiting a package from CincyStraps with samples of any variations he has. Let me tell you, I feel we are in VERY good hands with Cincy. This can only end well...and how often can we say that?


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## JFingers (Feb 18, 2012)

66Cooper said:


> I'm awaiting a package from CincyStraps with samples of any variations he has. Let me tell you, I feel we are in VERY good hands with Cincy. This can only end well...and often can we say that?


Every time getting a MKII...


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Ha! Very true.


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

BigHaole said:


> I'd be interested in the Pepsi version, but I'd like to know how long your straps are. I have an 8 inch wrist and I've bought some nato straps that just weren't long enough to comfortable tuck back properly. Any chance of doing something a little fancier, like the nylon strap that Tudor includes with the Black Bay? I'm referring to the sewn in spring bars, not the pattern.
> 
> Copied from the internet:


Straps are 290mm/11.4" I have roughly 8" wrists as well, as have plenty of strap to tuck unlike other straps commonly found. As far as doing something like sewn in springbars, I can't imagine it'd be worth it, or even possible. We are working on some new hardware though.


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## STEELINOX (Mar 20, 2006)

zachste said:


> Straps are 290mm/11.4" I have roughly 8" wrists as well, as have plenty of strap to tuck unlike other straps commonly found. As far as doing something like sewn in springbars, I can't imagine it'd be worth it, or even possible. We are working on some new hardware though.


Why wouldn't it be worth it? Don'tya see the value in a strap that is "fixed" in place = wont "slide" out of position like a threaded nato is the first thing that comes to mind...


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

zachste said:


> Straps are 290mm/11.4" I have roughly 8" wrists as well, as have plenty of strap to tuck unlike other straps commonly found. As far as doing something like sewn in springbars, I can't imagine it'd be worth it, or even possible. We are working on some new hardware though.


I went and put on my best fitting nato, which is attached to my Breitling Bentley of dubious origin, which I had received as a gift from a friend returning from Hong Kong. It's the only nato I've gotten that is long enough to tuck back, comfortably, and it is 11.4 inches (maybe 11.5). Definitely put me down for one of yours!

Regarding "is it worth it", I assume you mean would you be able to sell enough for the more expensive tooling costs, not is the design worthwhile. Personally, I love the Tudor design significantly more than a regular nato. But life comes down to price and if you could do the Tudor style for, say $40, I'd be in, but if it was $70, I would certainly pass and just stick with regular natos.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

STEELINOX said:


> Why wouldn't it be worth it? Don'tya see the value in a strap that is "fixed" in place = wont "slide" out of position like a threaded nato is the first thing that comes to mind...


I'd also add that I like that it doesn't bump the watch up by 2 fabric thicknesses, like a regular nato, only a sing 1 fabric thickness. The other advantage, and I think this is a big one, is that the stress on the spring bars is much more uniform, which I believe would lead to less spring bar bending and breaking, compared to a nato or zulu, which seems to put more stress on the springbar.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Unfortunately, custom orders usually require a large number to be made. Cincy's connection doesn't do custom hardware so that would have to be sourced, adding to cost and timing. Also, when you stitch the spring bars in a fixed location you limit the use of the strap to watches with that specific lug to lug with.
I LOVE the Tudor NATO and an actually about to take ownership of my second. I have even made complete spec drawings of it as I already went down this road. It's such a cool strap. A triple threat. Amazing fabric, unique arrangement, and killer hardware. I have heard that it's not a great strap for larger wrist peeps though.


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## Packleader (Aug 25, 2011)

If ordering a large number of custom straps will bring the price down to the other Cincy straps I've seen on the website ($11 - $14 range), then I will do my part and raise my order to two Pepsi straps and two Coke straps.

Cheers,
Packleader


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## Elf1962 (May 13, 2014)

Once the tooling is done for a fixed tool bar design wouldn't you be able to apply it to any NATO design (current and future), not just the KW project. I think that could be a great product that would differentiate Cincy from other competitors. Perhaps consider the KW project the seed $$ for the tooling/set-up…….just thinkin.
But I never have seen nor worn a fixed tool bar NATO so I am not sure.


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## Elf1962 (May 13, 2014)

Double post....


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

66Cooper said:


> I LOVE the Tudor NATO and an actually about to take ownership of my second. I have even made complete spec drawings of it as I already went down this road. It's such a cool strap. A triple threat. Amazing fabric, unique arrangement, and killer hardware. I have heard that it's not a great strap for larger wrist peeps though.


I have an 8 inch wrist and I'm on the 2nd to last notch, on the Tudor nato. I got all three straps with my Tudor, bracelet, distressed leather, and the nato. The bracelet and nato fit out-of-the-box, but the leather was too small, so I had to order the "extended" length.


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## JFingers (Feb 18, 2012)

I've never used the Tudor nato, but I do have something similar in a GasGasBones style strap on my Bremont (fixed spring bars on a fabric strap). I can't say I'm crazy about them. The nice thing about a regular nato is that you can change it out in 6-9 seconds without a tool. I see the benefit of having the spring bars sewn in, but I think I'd prefer a regular ol' G10 Nato.

Blue skies, y'all!
-only jake


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

I can tell you all now that Cincy is not going to doing a fixed bar NATO. He owns (or did. I just bought it) a Tudor strap. He likes them and gets how unique they are but making one would cost a LOT of money and time. The factory does not do custom hardware so that would have to be sourced and the buckle custom made. The biggest issue is that with fixed bars, you severely limit your market to watches that have that size lug to lug.


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## Darwin (Jan 28, 2012)

Not even L2L but lug hole to lug hole.



66Cooper said:


> I can tell you all now that Cincy is not going to doing a fixed bar NATO. He owns (or did. I just bought it) a Tudor strap. He likes them and gets how unique they are but making one would cost a LOT of money and time. The factory does not do custom hardware so that would have to be sourced and the buckle custom made. The biggest issue is that with fixed bars, you severely limit your market to watches that have that size lug to lug.


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

I can appreciate everyone's love for the sewn in spring bars. The biggest issue would be limiting it specifically to one watch. I can't imagine that a watch that has 300 pieces (right?) being made, will sell 300-400 straps to just those guys.

Working on hardware like Brian said, but that's up in the air as my factory doesn't machine their own hardware. Just a matter of tracking it down.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

:think: I (for one) do not care for, nor want anything by way of a strap feature, that fixes the spring bar location on the strap. 

I don't think that adds anything to help secure the watch.

:think: One real advantage of the simple, one-piece strap, is that it is able to be quickly and easily exchanged for another - a feature I would not want to give up.

My two cents worth.... ;-)

--- Best ---


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## STEELINOX (Mar 20, 2006)

JFingers said:


> I've never used the Tudor nato, but I do have something similar in a GasGasBones style strap on my Bremont (fixed spring bars on a fabric strap). I can't say I'm crazy about them. The nice thing about a regular nato is that you can change it out in 6-9 seconds without a tool. I see the benefit of having the spring bars sewn in, but I think I'd prefer a regular ol' G10 Nato.
> 
> Blue skies, y'all!
> -only jake


This "fixed spring bar" thing is really just a fad, I mean, don't get me wrong as I appreciate its design - but what we are talking about here is a custom bulk order and add whatever the extra cost is to "sew loops" for spring bars just brings this into "silly" territory...

Lets keep it simple - spec a coordinating color scheme that everyone can enjoy, make it a G10 and lets get some made...


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

That is exactly the plan. 

Let's all just hope that we might be getting custom engraving for our (soon to be) beloved watch, the Key West.


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## cpotters (Jan 29, 2009)

Brian,

I got both a coke and a pepsi (white AND black) so I'll be in for both, as well.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Well, the initial plan for all of this started with a midnight blue, red (possible deep) and white pattern. A single custom design. I'll leave it to Cincy to add the black version. 
I feel the pattern is universal and appealing enough to be a good lesser, regardless of whether own a KW or not. Cincy is the one selling out the capital so that is totally up to him. 
Going off the other threads of who's buying what, it would appear that the popular vote would go to the Pepsi bezel though. Obviously, this all comes down to numbers and making it work so I guess we will have to see where we net out with interest.


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

I am newly into NATO's and have been interested in Cincy Strap works for a while.

I think I will be ordering one of these for my Key West:


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

Agree with all here: Let's keep it simple! I would not like the fixed bar as I'd imagine that would limit being able to re-use this on other watches. 

Let's get the Pepsi done and work on getting it the way we like it. I bought a brushed hardware NATO from Strapcode and actually don't like the look. My vote is for SS hardware and etched with "KeyWest" as an added bonus.

Coke is a nice to have. To be honest with you, red and black NATO's are much easier to find than blue and red, especially shades that would match the KeyWest.


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## Darwin (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm interested in the pepsi as well as I am about 99.99% sure I'm going to order black/gilt/pepsi FTW!


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: I (for one) do not care for, nor want anything by way of a strap feature, that fixes the spring bar location on the strap.
> 
> I don't think that adds anything to help secure the watch.


I completely understand why the producing a fixed springbar strap is not practical for this project. This discussion is purely academic. Therefore, I feel I have to point out that the fixed spring bar strap does offer a more security for the watch. Look at how a nato or zulu strap is threaded through the spring bars. If you do not wear your watch completely loose, you're putting stress on the spring bars. The tighter the strap is, the more stress on the spring bars, which can bend them enough to cause the to fail.

With the fixed spring bar strap, there is no stress on the spring bars at all. The strap has them spaced appropriately and is not looping under the watch, then over the spring bar, then back down to your wrist. You can wear it loose or tight and the stress on the spring bars will remain the same.

Now, I've never had a spring bar fail, so the benefit of this may be completely outweighed by the restricted usefulness across multiple watches. But I hope I've made a convincing argument that there is an advantage to the design.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

BigHaole said:


> I completely understand why the producing a fixed springbar strap is not practical for this project. This discussion is purely academic. Therefore, I feel I have to point out that the fixed spring bar strap does offer a more security for the watch. Look at how a nato or zulu strap is threaded through the spring bars.* If you do not wear your watch completely loose, you're putting stress on the spring bars.* The tighter the strap is, the more stress on the spring bars, which can bend them enough to cause the to fail.
> 
> With the fixed spring bar strap, there is no stress on the spring bars at all. The strap has them spaced appropriately and is not looping under the watch, then over the spring bar, then back down to your wrist. You can wear it loose or tight and the stress on the spring bars will remain the same.
> 
> Now, I've never had a spring bar fail, so the benefit of this may be completely outweighed by the restricted usefulness across multiple watches. But I hope I've made a convincing argument that there is an advantage to the design.









I am not convinced - You said it yourself: This will be true in any situation; fixed spring-bar-strap or not.... (IMHO) 



> ...If you do not wear your watch completely loose, you're putting stress on the spring bars. The tighter the strap is, the more stress on the spring bars, which can bend them enough to cause them to fail..... *You can wear it loose or tight and the stress on the spring bars will remain the same. *









Even if I beleived that it reduces stress on the spring-bar,* I just don't like it!! * :-d:-d


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> View attachment 6894930
> I am not convinced - You said it yourself: This will be true in any situation; fixed spring-bar-strap or not.... (IMHO)


Have you ever seen bent or slightly rounded spring bars? I bought a pre-owned watch with a 22mm strap. Previous owner only wore it with a nato. The spring bars were clearly bent, from that wearing. I had trouble getting them back into the solid end links of the metal bracelet, which I preferred with that watch. I have never seen bent spring bars on a Tudor Black Bay.

But it's all academic...we're getting a traditional nato, and that's just fine.


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## Eric90 (May 3, 2014)

BigHaole said:


> Have you ever seen bent or slightly rounded spring bars? I bought a pre-owned watch with a 22mm strap. Previous owner only wore it with a nato. The spring bars were clearly bent, from that wearing. I had trouble getting them back into the sold end links of the metal bracelet, which I preferred with that watch. I have never seen bent spring bars on a Tudor Black Bay.
> 
> But it's all academic...we're getting a traditional nato, and that's just fine.


The OEM Omgea NATO strap comes with bent spring bars. The NATO is a little thicker than usual because of the Leather Lining so I can only assume the spring bars are provided to accomodate for this.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

Eric90 said:


> The OEM Omgea NATO strap comes with bent spring bars. The NATO is a little thicker than usual because of the Leather Lining so I can only assume the spring bars are provided to accomodate for this.


Do you mean accommodate as in to make room for a fatter strap or accommodate as in to deal with different stress vectors?

The watch I saw with bent spring bars was Boschett Cave Dweller II with an after-market nato strap (normal thickness).


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Just make sure you are buying only THE BEST spring bars you can. I have seen some truly terrible spring bars out there. When you have a really quality set, the risk of bending is vastly reduced. Actually, I was just thinking about this. When I wear my Kingston on anything other then the OEM bracelet. I use shoulderless 2mm bars....just cant remember where I bought them from. They extend almost all the way into the lugs (you can see them when looking at the side of watch) and they have 1mm ends so it works with these cases. 

Not to get off topic (too late) but does anyone know why Bill went with 1mm lug holes rather then 1.2 like Rolex uses. I would LOVE to just use their bars. It sounds silly but they look amazing on the watch. Extend all the way in and have an ever-so-slightly rounded ends that add in their look.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

66Cooper said:


> Not to get off topic (too late) but does anyone know why Bill went with 1mm lug holes rather then 1.2 like Rolex uses. I would LOVE to just use their bars. It sounds silly but they look amazing on the watch. Extend all the way in and have an ever-so-slightly rounded ends that add in their look.


Now that we're off-topic, maybe it would be a good time to start collecting recommendations for spring bars. I think I remember discussions on this, during the Kingston days, but not having one, I didn't pay much attention. Now that my Key West is get close to reality, it would be great to start preparing for it's arrival.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

66Cooper said:


> Just make sure you are buying only THE BEST spring bars you can. I have seen some truly terrible spring bars out there. When you have a really quality set, the risk of bending is vastly reduced. Actually, I was just thinking about this. When I wear my Kingston on anything other then the OEM bracelet. I use shoulderless 2mm bars....just cant remember where I bought them from. They extend almost all the way into the lugs (you can see them when looking at the side of watch) and they have 1mm ends so it works with these cases.
> 
> Not to get off topic (too late) but does anyone know why Bill went with 1mm lug holes rather then 1.2 like Rolex uses. I would LOVE to just use their bars. It sounds silly but they look amazing on the watch. Extend all the way in and have an ever-so-slightly rounded ends that add in their look.


 Agreed....I bought some good quality shoulder-less bars (with the longer extended ends) from eBay seller twenteo (?) in Australia. The longer ends extend well into the lug hole. He also has them in different (read: larger) diameters for a potential increase in strength. And he has some 1.78 mm shoulder-less bars with the long pins that work well with the MKII bracelet's solid end links.

I have been kicking around the idea of drilling out my lug holes in order to accomdate the 1.2mm bars, but so far have not done it - six of one; half a dozen of another. Potentially stronger, larger diameter pins vs weaker lugs (because of the larger hole....) :think:

--- Best ---


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## JFingers (Feb 18, 2012)

Marathon spring bars. The shoulder-less ones, since real watches have drilled lugs.


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

BigHaole said:


> Have you ever seen bent or slightly rounded spring bars? I bought a pre-owned watch with a 22mm strap. Previous owner only wore it with a nato. The spring bars were clearly bent, from that wearing. I had trouble getting them back into the solid end links of the metal bracelet, which I preferred with that watch. I have never seen bent spring bars on a Tudor Black Bay.
> 
> But it's all academic...we're getting a traditional nato, and that's just fine.


My daughter has a watch with slightly bent strap bars. I thought they were just bent out of shape, but then I started to think of the chances of that actually happening. I tried to put in normal ones, but they would not fit. The bent ones actually worked really well with her NATO.


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

If you live in the USA, Ofrei has good quality springbars, in fact the ones for Rolex watches are reported to be made by the same company that supplies thespringbars to Rolex . I buy mine from Startime supply in Houston, but you have to open and account to buy from them.

Like 66Cooper, I have seriously thought about drilling out the lug holes on my MKII's to accommodate Rolex springbars. Biggest problem is you really need to disassemble the watch down to the mid case to do it safely. Just haven't gotten to the point that it seemed necessary. Another factor, the Rolex springbars are 2mm in diameter in the middle part of the bars. I doubt that the Rolex springbars will go through the SEL's without drilling them out as well. So they would only work for NATO's and leather straps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

I have had that exact same conversation (in my own head) many times. Would require full dismantle and then I would have the bracelet drilled as well. So far, it's always ended with me saying (again in my own head), "nope, that's totally overkill. Stop being ridiculous." Haha. 

The bars I have get have the 2mm bar and 1mm ends and are the best of both worlds.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

A bit more on-topic:
I received some sample straps from Zach (Cincy) to look over. Mainly I was interested in seeing the different weaves and the thicknesses he has done thus far. I will be busting out the ol calipers tomorrow and getting a good sample of all the straps I have to see what is best. He sent me 3 22mm and one 20mm so I am unable to really try the 22mm straps out but this aint my first rodeo and I can tell straight away that all are well built and of average stiffness.

With that, I'd like to submit my personal preference on NATOs. I am really not a fan of Zulu strap or over the latest "overly beefy" NATO straps. They are just too much. I mean, there is a time and a place but a classic style Oyster case is not one of them. I like my NATOs to be of-correct thickness (say, Phoenix's for example) and with the hardware nice and tight to keep down on bulk. The thicker the strap, the taller the watch sits on the wrist. I'm not really sure there is a need for the overly thick NATO either. I VERY highly doubt one could tear an original one without doing some serious damage to the watch or your wrist, ie you will have bigger things to worry about. haha. Anyway, I am going to look at the array of straps I have, get a rally good idea of the thicknesses and figure out what might work best, using my Kingston as a test mule. 

That sound good or am I in the dark on all of this?


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## JFingers (Feb 18, 2012)

66Cooper said:


> A bit more on-topic:
> I received some sample straps from Zach (Cincy) to look over. Mainly I was interested in seeing the different weaves and the thicknesses he has done thus far. I will be busting out the ol calipers tomorrow and getting a good sample of all the straps I have to see what is best. He sent me 3 22mm and one 20mm so I am unable to really try the 22mm straps out but this aint my first rodeo and I can tell straight away that all are well built and of average stiffness.
> 
> With that, I'd like to submit my personal preference on NATOs. I am really not a fan of Zulu strap or over the latest "overly beefy" NATO straps. They are just too much. I mean, there is a time and a place but a classic style Oyster case is not one of them. I like my NATOs to be of-correct thickness (say, Phoenix's for example) and with the hardware nice and tight to keep down on bulk. The thicker the strap, the taller the watch sits on the wrist. I'm not really sure there is a need for the overly thick NATO either. I VERY highly doubt one could tear an original one without doing some serious damage to the watch or your wrist, ie you will have bigger things to worry about. haha. Anyway, I am going to look at the array of straps I have, get a rally good idea of the thicknesses and figure out what might work best, using my Kingston as a test mule.
> ...


Sounds like a good plan. I, too, think average thickness. I haven't handled a Phoenix strap, but my Bond from CCW is excellent. Not sure I would change a thing to that.


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

I'd shoot for Maratac NATO thickness. It's just thick enough to really hold the watch well and not sag at the buckle, but still thin enough that it forms around the wrist at the lug. I've had some thick straps that would NOT bend at the spring bars unless you wore it too tight for a few days to break them in.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

Arthur said:


> If you live in the USA, Ofrei has good quality springbars


I had emailed Ofrei to ask about which spring bars they would recommend for a Rolex watch I own. I got a very curt response, basically saying it's not their job to know which spring bars are best for which watches. I was annoyed when I first read it, but upon later consideration, I realized that they are in the supply business, not the direct-to-consumer business. So, really, the expectation was wrong on my part to expect that type of customer service. After all, even if I had ordered, it would have been for no more than a few $ total.

Thanks for the other recommendations.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

I just did a thickness test on the lot of straps I have and feel I have a good idea of the "proper" size. Here are my findings:

Phoenix NATO — 1.12mm
RAF — 1.03mm

Cincy Thick — 1.4mm
Standard — 1.15mm
Thin argyle — 1.02mm

Strapcoade NATO — .81mm

Helenarou RAF (my design) — .9

I have others but they are all mostly the same. From all of this, I would say that a NATO between 1.12-1.15mm would be the ticket and what i would like to shoot for.

Now, what do you guys think about hardware finish. I have polished, brushed (which is not readily available it seems) and blasted. I'm not the fence really


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

I'm down for polished. Tried brushed and bead blasted and it just clashes with a polished watch. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

BigHaole said:


> I had emailed Ofrei to ask about which spring bars they would recommend for a Rolex watch I own. I got a very curt response, basically saying it's not their job to know which spring bars are best for which watches. I was annoyed when I first read it, but upon later consideration, I realized that they are in the supply business, not the direct-to-consumer business. So, really, the expectation was wrong on my part to expect that type of customer service. After all, even if I had ordered, it would have been for no more than a few $ total.
> 
> Thanks for the other recommendations.


They aren't much on helping with information!! Like you said, they pretty much deal with folks who know exactly what they want. AFA the proper springbar, if you have and older drilled lughole Submariner, GMT, SeaDweller etc. they all take the shoulderless springbars that have 1.2mm ends and 2mm center first ones at the top of the page "Springbars to fit Rolex" these are replacements for Rolex # 23-9291

All of the older Rolex watches with drilled lugholes use shoulderless springbars. 
For the older Datejusts, Airkings, Precisions and those type cases the 1.8mm springbar which is the replacement for Rolex # 23-9290 springbars these are 5 down on the page.

Hope this helps if folks are looking for good quality replacement springbars.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Helpful but remember: Our MKII's have 1mm springbar holes and the Rolex 1.2mm ends will not fit.


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## JFingers (Feb 18, 2012)

66Cooper said:


> ... From all of this, I would say that a NATO between 1.12-1.15mm would be the ticket and what i would like to shoot for.
> 
> Now, what do you guys think about hardware finish. I have polished, brushed (which is not readily available it seems) and blasted. I'm not the fence really


I agree on the thickness. About the hardware, it should match the case, right? Polished case? Polished hardware. "Key West" on the buckle if we're getting fancy.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

That sounds about right to me as well.


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

66Cooper said:


> Helpful but remember: Our MKII's have 1mm springbar holes and the Rolex 1.2mm ends will not fit.


I've tried the Rolex 1.2mm spring bars. Be careful. It _looks_ right and seems to go in, but it will pop right off when you strap up the nato. I have had good success with the SARS shoulderless springbars.


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

66Cooper said:


> I just did a thickness test on the lot of straps I have and feel I have a good idea of the "proper" size. Here are my findings:
> 
> Phoenix NATO - 1.12mm
> RAF - 1.03mm
> ...


We can do brushed, polished, or even PVD if people are feeling wild. We can do all three, so hardware won't have to be narrowed down to a single finish.


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## TheMeasure (Jul 8, 2013)

66Cooper said:


> I just did a thickness test on the lot of straps..I would say that a NATO between 1.12-1.15mm would be the ticket and what i would like to shoot for.


That sounds good to me.



zachste said:


> We can do brushed, polished, or even PVD if people are feeling wild. We can do all three, so hardware won't have to be narrowed down to a single finish.


Awesome to hear we have those choices!



Aceldama said:


> I'd shoot for Maratac NATO thickness. It's just thick enough to really hold the watch well and not sag at the buckle, but still thin enough that it forms around the wrist at the lug. I've had some thick straps that would NOT bend at the spring bars unless you wore it too tight for a few days to break them in.


I hear you. I like how the Maratac and Phoenix both form tighter around the spring bar. Along with the thickness, I think the weave contributes to the strap's flexibility. I compared a no name NATO to a Phoenix. I didn't measure but both appear to be similar in thickness. The no name has a harder time forming around the spring bar than the Phoenix. Certainly not a deal breaker but prefer the weave of both Phoenix and Maratac. Also have my Marathon shoulder less bars peaking through the lug holes. ;-)


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Exactly!! The Phoenix (don't have a Maratac) takes the shape of the watch so much better. Its like a nice starched shirt, except it seems to last. It must be down to the weave and structure of them.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey guys, will all the buzz about the GTG, the upcoming pix of the Pepsi bezel, and the ultimate release of these gems, I really want to get on this. I need to go back through the thread and count up the people in but 100 was what we were looking to get. That would get Cincy to pull the trigger and then bill to provide the color numbers to get it perfect.
Unfortunately, Cincy won't be able to make it to the GTG due to the timing but he is just as excited to see this happen as we are. Anyone on the fence, get off it!!! Chime in and get in line. Not often you can get custom strap, matched brilliantly, and with the watch name engraved in it, right?


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## Darwin (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm in - I *thought* I had already posted to that effect but can't find any evidence that I did.


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## Uly (May 20, 2011)

I'm in as well for a couple of straps.


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## JFingers (Feb 18, 2012)

I am 100% in for a pepsi strap.


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## poisonwazthecure (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm in.


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## cpotters (Jan 29, 2009)

I'm in


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## STEELINOX (Mar 20, 2006)

Ininininininininininininininininin, oh and, iniminininininin !


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

Me too! I am in! |>|>


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## tmoris (Dec 8, 2009)

Any chance for a 1piece nato? I found natos without the second piece much more comfy as they let the watch sit closer to the wrist. I have a shell cordovan nato and it felt weird with my aquatimer and I had this idea to cut the second piece... from that point it became my favorite way of wearing it.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

No, unfortunately not really a chance with the limited number being made. I personally really like RAF straps. Clean and simple but there is something very purposeful about a NATO. 

As for leather NATOs. I've never worn one for the same reason. Seems like way too much bulk to me.


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## dwg (Mar 22, 2013)

I've just also found that leather nato is not the best match for the domed case back. I really wanted this one, but they sold last week:

View attachment 7242522
View attachment 7242506


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## dwg (Mar 22, 2013)

66Cooper said:


> No, unfortunately not really a chance with the limited number being made. I personally really like RAF straps. Clean and simple but there is something very purposeful about a NATO.
> 
> As for leather NATOs. I've never worn one for the same reason. Seems like way too much bulk to me.


I like the look and feel of the phoenix, but they tear around the holes rather quickly. I guess I'll burn them a little around the holes next time before I'll start to use them.


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## Elf1962 (May 13, 2014)

Count me in!!!


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## CBM_DOC (Feb 26, 2006)

Count me in as well. (I just realized I said before only that I am interested.)

Dave


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks all! Going to be making a list on Monday.


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## Fox143 (Jan 12, 2014)

I am in!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thejollywatcher (Jul 30, 2009)

I'll get one too!


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

How does a group purchase like this work? Do we have to commit and a limited run is done? Or do we just order, individually, from their website, and the comments here are to help justify CincyStraps getting this project started? Either way, I'm in for a Pepsi with bushed hardware.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

The second.


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

Pepsi with polished HW!


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## revlimiter (Dec 13, 2015)

In for all strap colors.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Just to clarify, there are only plans for a Pepsi version.


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## Dutchman72 (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm sure I posted before, but to be sure. I'm defo in 

Sent from beyond the stars


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

66Cooper said:


> The second.


Would be cool if we had a crack at them before it's available on the site. Maybe post a hidden URL here first?


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Oh, I'm sure that will be the case. They will go to us first before he offers to the rest of the world. Also, only ours will have the engraved buckle, not the ones for the masses


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

Aceldama said:


> Would be cool if we had a crack at them before it's available on the site. Maybe post a hidden URL here first?


You guys will have first crack for sure. I'm not sure it would help to use a hidden url so as to keep my other customers from the pre order. There will be plenty to go around per my MOQ. But only a limited number will has the key west engraving, the rest will just be my normal engraving.


66Cooper said:


> Oh, I'm sure that will be the case. They will go to us first before he offers to the rest of the world. Also, only ours will have the engraved buckle, not the ones for the masses


If guys want it to be kept exclusive to just those who have a key west on order, we may be able to do that. But I can only see that as hurting us getting to the numbers we need to reach.


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## calwatchguy (Jun 23, 2015)

I'm in for a couple as well. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## k1gordon (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm in fo the Pepsi strap.


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## OkiFrog (Dec 25, 2009)

Another vote for a Pepsi. Thanks.


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## cybercat (Aug 8, 2013)

Please put me down for a couple too. |> |>


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## Darwin (Jan 28, 2012)

I didn't specify in my previous post, but I'd be in for at least two as well.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

Darwin said:


> I didn't specify in my previous post, but I'd be in for at least two as well.


 That's a 'ditto' for me too - I am in for two. |>|>


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## Dragoon (Feb 17, 2006)

In for at least 2 but, maybe 4 or 6 depending on how this develops and availability at time of order. Would like to see prototype or drawing of design if someone can point me to post in thread which shows this. thanks.



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> That's a 'ditto' for me too - I am in for two. |>|>


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## thejollywatcher (Jul 30, 2009)

Changed my mind.

Two for me now! 

Sent from Tapatalk


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

Dragoon said:


> In for at least 2 but, maybe 4 or 6 depending on how this develops and availability at time of order. Would like to see prototype or drawing of design if someone can point me to post in thread which shows this. thanks.


See page two for Brian's initial mock ups.


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## Neily_San (Nov 12, 2011)

Count me in !!
:-D


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## fastfras (Jul 23, 2014)

Think I'll take one of each (pepsi, coke) since i'm still one the bezel fence.


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## JFingers (Feb 18, 2012)

zachste said:


> You guys will have first crack for sure. I'm not sure it would help to use a hidden url so as to keep my other customers from the pre order. There will be plenty to go around per my MOQ. But only a limited number will has the key west engraving, the rest will just be my normal engraving.
> 
> If guys want it to be kept exclusive to just those who have a key west on order, we may be able to do that. But I can only see that as hurting us getting to the numbers we need to reach.


I don't care whether anyone else gets one of your awesome straps, I don't care if their strap says "key west" or CSW, I don't even care if they get one before I do. I just hope mine says "key west", matches the colors of the pepsi bezel, and is as awesome as the "bond" nato I got from you guys. Whatever you gotta do to make that happen, it doesn't matter to me, I'm just stoked with the product you're making! You're not a businessman, you're a business, man!

Thanks for working with us!
-only jake


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

JFingers said:


> I don't care whether anyone else gets one of your awesome straps, I don't care if their strap says "key west" or CSW, I don't even care if they get one before I do. I just hope mine says "key west", matches the colors of the pepsi bezel, and is as awesome as the "bond" nato I got from you guys. Whatever you gotta do to make that happen, it doesn't matter to me, I'm just stoked with the product you're making! You're not a businessman, you're a business, man!
> 
> Thanks for working with us!
> -only jake


Appreciate the glowing words about muh straps! We'll get the colors as close as possible for sure. If someone can convince Bill to send me an insert, I can send it to the factory, and we can get a 100% match. Outside of that happening, all I can say is that it will be as close as possible.


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## Plat0 (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm in!


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## tako_watch (Apr 1, 2010)

subscribed and in for one, at least!


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

Well, this is about to take off. Meeting Bill tomorrow and will talk colors and the likes and nail it all down. Spec drawings will follow soon after.


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## Cleans Up (Jun 14, 2010)

Very cool, I'm still watching this one intently. I absolutely want a "key west" Pepsi nato.


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## STEELINOX (Mar 20, 2006)

Alright, so what's the buckle section gonna look like, "M II K" logo, maybe or?


Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

STEELINOX said:


> Alright, so what's the buckle section gonna look like, "M II K" logo, maybe or?
> 
> Electronic post generated by human via apple interface...


Keywest.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

The buckle will say KEY WEST. Bill was totally cool with that. No MKII logo for obvious reasons.


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## bbckfh (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm in for two.



Thoughts on the project:

1. Are the colors set? What about a black background, with an offset 3mm stripe of blue, flanked by a central 1mm red and lateral 1mm white and gold? Encapsulates the key colors, adds the neutrality and versatility of a black base. E.g. The stripe width of the f71 brown from NATOStrapCo seen below.

2. Love the engraving, and prefer steel to gold hardware.

3. Hope the earlier comments on material come to fruition: I vastly prefer the softer, tougher cloth on my Maratacs to the inferior stuff on some of the others.

4. Any chance of a RAF/Zulu style instead of a NATO? Really not a big fan of the NATO.


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## bbckfh (Oct 23, 2014)

Got it! Like this:


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## eXis10z (Jun 21, 2009)

Count me in! Definitely interested in this.


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## mrklabb (Mar 23, 2014)

I'd be in for a coke and Pepsi.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk


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## tml512 (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm in for 2 Pepsi


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

Floating this back up so people have an idea of what's been discussed. I think this is the pattern and it's just getting the colors right.



66Cooper said:


> 1. Navy blue with bright red
> 2. Navy blue with a deeper red/maroon (not sure what Bill went with in the end)
> 3. Midnight blue with the deeper red/maroon.


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## Aceldama (Sep 7, 2013)

And I'm in for one of each. Another reason for getting the white dial Coke...


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

Totally off subject, but what is the name of
the strap on the Marathon?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

LOL, I checked the site for that strap!


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

Arthur said:


> Totally off subject, but what is the name of
> the strap on the Marathon?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:think: In the post before that - Project Key West Custom NATO: CincyStraps - Page 13



> Are the colors set? What about a black background, with an offset 3mm stripe of blue, flanked by a central 1mm red and lateral 1mm white and gold? Encapsulates the key colors, adds the neutrality and versatility of a black base. E.g. The stripe width of the *f71 brown from NATOStrapCo seen below.*


Does that help?


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## bbckfh (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks OCM! Yes, it's called the f71 special edition or something like that.


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: In the post before that - Project Key West Custom NATO: CincyStraps - Page 13
> 
> Does that help??


It helps me feel stupid and humiliated...if that helps you.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

White Tuna said:


> It helps me feel stupid and humiliated...if that helps you.
> View attachment 7468682


Whaaaa? 

:think: You have been hanging around those guys from the 'bssht' bunch too much perhaps, methinks?

--- No Harm Intended ---


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## bbckfh (Oct 23, 2014)

That is one of my favorite of Larson's jokes... Can't tell you how often I feel like I'm him.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

So...we're getting close to the ship date on the KayWest. What's the timeline on the straps? I assume there will be a lag, to ensure that the color match is as close as possible, before a full production run. Do you have a ballpark date?


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

BigHaole said:


> So...we're getting close to the ship date on the KayWest. What's the timeline on the straps? I assume there will be a lag, to ensure that the color match is as close as possible, before a full production run. Do you have a ballpark date?


Last I heard from Brian, I was waiting to get the file of the design and PMS colors so I could send to the factory to get production started. I never got that from him. He may chime in here if he sees this. Once I have that file, I'll get it sent to the factory, and open pre orders on the website. Production takes roughly 6 weeks, give or take.

Edit: Just sent Brian an email.


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## 66Cooper (Jun 20, 2008)

I just reached out to Bill again for the colors again. My guess is that between all the travel and inbound parts, my last email got lost in the shuffle. I'm sure I will hear from him soon.

I mentioned this this Zach but after seeing the Pepsi bezel live, the blue is not nearly as dark as I original expected/hoped. I'm very interested to see what the color values actually are and what the end strap will look like now. Obviously, the second I hear from Bill, I'll make the updates and post up pix of a render.


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

So what I'm going to do is open the pre-order, that way we can start working towards the 100 straps minimum. I'll start a new thread once it's live on the site.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

66Cooper said:


> ...after seeing the Pepsi bezel live, the blue is not nearly as dark as I original expected/hoped.


This saddens me. After all the talk on the design thread, it seemed that everyone wanted a very dark blue. I know the prevailing wisdom is to trust Bill to pick the winning combination, but I'm still bummed that the blue isn't a dark blue.


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## Packleader (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm so glad that this idea became a reality. 

Best wishes,
Packleader


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## Packleader (Aug 25, 2011)

I just want to say a big THANK YOU to everyone who made the custom Cincy straps happen. The straps are simply lovely!









Best wishes,
Packleader


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## zachste (Nov 13, 2013)

Packleader said:


> I just want to say a big THANK YOU to everyone who made the custom Cincy straps happen. The straps are simply lovely!
> 
> View attachment 9433490
> 
> ...


Absolutely, glad they ended up matching as well as they did. Now where are the pictures mounted on the watch?!?


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