# Review of the new Vacheron Constantin Overeseas three hander



## mlcor

I was recently fortunate enough to acquire the new VC Overseas. I had been waiting for it to come out, as I wanted a sporty watch with a bracelet to complement my sporty bracelet watches with white/silver/gray dials. Not expecting to see them available this soon, I unexpectedly found one at an AD, and bought it.

The new Overseas is really new, and quite different from the old one for several reasons. The dial has a different design, losing the arabic numerals (which I did not like) in favor of indices, and moving the date from 4:30 (boo!) to 3:00 (yay!):









The new one is pretty much what I consider the ideal size for me for a sport watch, 41mm x 11mm. It also sports a brand new, in house movement. So, let's get started.

Packaging is what you would expect at this level--a beautiful box, with a very nice wooden box (complete with display window) inside. Inside that is a separate travel box.





















Inside the travel box is a cleaning cloth, USB with documentation, and two additional straps--one rubber, one leather, both in blue to match the dial. Also included is a deployant for use with those straps. I suspect, given the quality and comfort of the bracelet, I might never use them--however, with the tool-less strap changing ability (more later) it would be tempting to try them out.









Without further ado, the bluest dial I've ever seen:





















You can see a few of the features. One that is polarizing to some is the dual tracks--the minutes on the dial, and the seconds on the rehaut. Personally, I think it makes perfect sense--the minute track isn't cluttered up with unnecessary divisions, and the seconds track has the additional divisions and numbers, with the seconds hand pointing directly to them. Basically, if you need to precisely count seconds, you can do it, but it's not obtrusive if you just want to know the time to the minute. It also adds a little more interest to the dial IMO. I also like the minimal writing on the dial--just the brand name and the word Geneve (and the tiny Swiss Made at the bottom, of course). Very clean. The Maltese Cross motif appears in numerous locations--on the dial, of course, plus the bezel, the signed crown, and the links of the bracelet.

To be continued...


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## mlcor

The bracelet is amazing. As my first attempt to justify the outrageous price of the watch, just look at the theme of beautiful brushing contrasting with polishing and bevels (which theme is repeated on the bezel vs. the case, and in the movement):










Note the polishing on the sides of the links and also the incredible detail of the angled and polished bevels in the center of the links:










Oh yes, it's also extremely comfortable, a double butterfly design, with a lovely Maltese Cross over the clasp:










You can also see from the first picture that the watch lies quite flat for 11mm. This one shows it, too:










Next, some views of the dial and movement.


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## mlcor

So, dial details. I really like the pointer at the end of the seconds hand, and the date window is immaculately framed and finished.









The Maltese Cross:









The indices are very nice as well, and filled with lume, the markers at 12, 6 and 9 being larger (and lumey-er).


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## mlcor

The movement is VC's new 5100, the base movement used for all of the new Overseas models. It beats at a modern 28,800 vph, and has a 60 hour power reserve, using twin barrels for constant torque. The movement has the Geneva hallmark, and sports a gorgeous 22 carat gold rotor with a compass motif.















As you would expect, the finishing is excellent, and continues the theme of smooth polished surfaces and textured surfaces transitioning throughout:

































Note the polishing on the top side edges of even the smallest parts, transitioning to unpolished below. The rotor is also spectacular in its use of contrasting textures:









Almost forgot--the movement is rated to 150m, and also is anti-magnetic, a good trick with a display back accomplished with an iron ring inside the case (still doesn't feel particularly heavier than my other steel bracelet watches).

Also, note the little tab on the inside of the bracelet in the top two pictures--this is a quick release mechanism to change straps/bracelet. You simply pull down on the tab with a fingernail, and the bracelet or strap releases. To re-install, simply pull down on the tab and slip it back into place, then release the tab. I did it to take one of the photos, and it was quite simple. Proprietary, to be sure, but given that they supply three choices, I think it's excellent.

Wrist shots to follow...


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## mlcor

Finally, some wrist shots in an attempt (unsuccessfully) to demonstrate just how beautiful the dial is.

There may be one or two more watches in my future, but I think with this one, I'm done with the really high end ones.



























Almost forgot, the one thing I was very surprised about, and view as a negative--the movement does not hack. I don't know if that's a VC thing (my Traditionelle doesn't hack, either, but neither do most manual wind dress watches, I think) or what, but I find it very strange for a newly designed movement going into a sports watch. It's not a deal breaker for me, and the positives far outweigh that minor detail, but still surprising to me.

Also forgot a lume shot--the lume I'd rate as a "B."


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## Monad

All your pictures are broken.


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## mlcor

Monad said:


> All your pictures are broken.


Oh no! Can someone else confirm that? They show up fine on my computer...

They're not showing up on Tapatalk. I will fix.


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## m0c021

Monad said:


> All your pictures are broken.


I was so excited to click this thread only to be so disappointed when none of the pictures worked


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## mlcor

m0c021 said:


> I was so excited to click this thread only to be so disappointed when none of the pictures worked


First two posts are fixed, will work on the others as soon as the forum is back up on my computer.

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## epX

Wow, huge congrats! Went to the boutique today where they had both, the blue and the silver dial version. Judging by the pictures I've seen online, I thought I would prefer the blue dial, but seeing both side by side in person, personally I slightly prefer the silver dial. The blue dial is really stunning in person and together with the shiny finish makes it more flashy. The silver dial is a lot more understated and the matte finish makes it more legible. Either way, I'm very impressed with the watch.


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## mlcor

epX said:


> Wow, huge congrats! I went to the boutique today where they had both, the blue and the silver dial version. Judging by the pictures I've seen online, I thought I would prefer the blue dial, but seeing both side by side in person, personally I slightly prefer the silver dial. The blue dial is really stunning in person and together with the shiny finish makes it more flashy. The silver dial is a lot more understated and the matte finish makes it more legible. Either way, I'm very impressed with the watch.
> View attachment 9706138
> View attachment 9706170


The silver is definitely nice, too, but I already have that covered with a Breguet Marine, a platinum dial Yachtmaster, and a Snowflake. Wanted one with a darker dial.

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## MarqDePombal

Congrats!! Appreciate the time taken to write such an informative review. Also surprised about the non-hacking, seems like it wouldn't be a big deal to include. Anyway, wear it in good health! Will come back later when the remaining pics are fixed.


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## Alysandir

I really prefer the dial of the new version to the old, but the "razor wire" bezel still irks me.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## mlcor

All pictures present and accounted for!


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## Tristis

Looks great, love the low profile of the watch and the change to stick indices, and date window move as well!


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## Maiden

Great looking watch and review. Thanks for sharing.


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## Alex_TA

Thank you for your effort.
This watch with the brown dial is the only high end piece that could suit me but I have some problem with religious symbols everywhere.


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## mlcor

Alex_TA said:


> Thank you for your effort.
> This watch with the brown dial is the only high end piece that could suit me but I have some problem with religious symbols everywhere.


Fair enough, although the Maltese Cross is more associated with knights than saints (from Wikipedia):

"In the 15th century, the eight points of the four arms of the later called Maltese Cross represented the eight lands of origin, or Langues of the Knights Hospitaller: Auvergne, Provence, France, Aragon, Castille and Portugal, Italy, Germany, and England (with Scotland and Ireland).[5]

The eight points also symbolize the eight obligations or aspirations of the knights:[5]

to live in truth
to have faith
to repent one's sins
to give proof of humility
to love justice
to be merciful
to be sincere and wholehearted
to endure persecution"


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## tigerpac

Thanks for the review and all the great pics!

I love your passion for it. I found for me, it wore large for the size and it sort of turned me off but man does it work on your wrist! Enjoy!!


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## mlcor

tigerpac said:


> Thanks for the review and all the great pics!
> 
> I love your passion for it. I found for me, it wore large for the size and it sort of turned it off but man does it work on your wrist! Enjoy!!


Thanks, tigerpac. I'm blessed with a decent size (7.25"), flat wrist, so I can wear anything up to 44mm or so pretty comfortably.

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## Spangles

Great review and a watch that is under-appreciated!

I tried it on and it's pretty great. The quick-change system is very useful and the bracelet has a hidden half-link.


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## tigerpac

I can't complain, a lot of the reverso sizes work for me but man I was hoping this one would work. Maybe I'll do a 39mm royal oak someday...


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## m0c021

mlcor said:


> Thanks, tigerpac. I'm blessed with a decent size (7.25"), flat wrist, so I can wear anything up to 44mm or so pretty comfortably.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will go ahead and cross this off my list then (for being too big for my tiny wrist). Surprisingly, I think I like the silver dial more too. Also the date wheel matches better.


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## mlcor

m0c021 said:


> I will go ahead and cross this off my list then (for being too big for my tiny wrist). Surprisingly, I think I like the silver dial more too. Also the date wheel matches better.


The silver is definitely a beauty, too. For me, I think the date window provides balance to the white 9:00 index; IMO it might actually look unbalanced if it were blue...


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## JCZ5

Looks amazing! And a great review to boot! 

Interesting to see more and more blue dialed watches in the market. What a stunner 


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## Tick Talk

mlcor said:


> Fair enough, although the Maltese Cross is more associated with knights than saints (from Wikipedia)


The Knights Hospitaller, aka Order of St. John, were a military religious order - Catholic to be specific. VC states their use of the Maltese Cross symbol is a homage to the shape of a Geneva Stopworks mechanism, without religious connotations. However, as a student of the brand's history I have to say this is a modern narrative and not consistent with the brand's history. In fact, as far as I can find the only time that a Geneva Stopworks was actually used by V&C as a logo was in 1938 for the Italian market (their biggest at that time). Why only 1938? Mussolini was embroiled in a turf war with the Catholic Church and the Maltese Cross would likely have been too strongly associated with the pontiff who wore this symbol on his official robes.







Regardless of why the Maltese Cross was initially chosen (they also registered and abandoned several other cross motifs in the period 1880-1888), today it is irrevocably associated with the company and looks really spiffy too.


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## EnderW

Great review. It is indeed a stunning watch, especially the dial. I was extremely impressed when I tried it on, but alas it was too big for my puny 6.25" wrists.

I do have a question - granted in a small period of ownership - but how are you liking the strap change system? I played with them this past weekend and it was cool that I could change strap to bracelet and back again in a matter of seconds. But I did wonder about the security of it. When I tried it on, at one point a bracelet came off from one of the lugs all on its own (lucky I grabbed the watch immediately). Not sure if it was just a sample watch that may have been mishandled. Doubt VC would put out a product if there was any real risk of the endlink disconnecting, but wanted to see if it is easy to use and feels secure to an owner.


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## Vig2000

mlcor said:


> Almost forgot, the one thing I was very surprised about, and view as a negative--the movement does not hack. I don't know if that's a VC thing (my Traditionelle doesn't hack, either, but neither do most manual wind dress watches, I think) or what, but I find it very strange for a newly designed movement going into a sports watch. It's not a deal breaker for me, and the positives far outweigh that minor detail, but still surprising to me.


The non-hacking seconds is unfortunately a deal breaker for me. Makes it that much more difficult to set the watch to a known and accurate reference time, which I like to do for all my watches just for informal accuracy checks. I find it very puzzling as to why VC decided to make this one non-hacking. I mean, a manual can perhaps get away with non-hacking seconds, but a modern day automatic VC movement that doesn't hack, especially one that's a brand new in-house movement...:think:



EnderW said:


> Great review. It is indeed a stunning watch, especially the dial. I was extremely impressed when I tried it on, but alas it was too big for my puny 6.25" wrists.
> 
> I do have a question - granted in a small period of ownership - but how are you liking the strap change system? I played with them this past weekend and it was cool that I could change strap to bracelet and back again in a matter of seconds. But I did wonder about the security of it. When I tried it on, at one point a bracelet came off from one of the lugs all on its own (lucky I grabbed the watch immediately). Not sure if it was just a sample watch that may have been mishandled. Doubt VC would put out a product if there was any real risk of the endlink disconnecting, but wanted to see if it is easy to use and feels secure to an owner.


Good point, I always hesitate with watches that have quick change systems. The convenience is definitely there, but I'd rather have the security.


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## Crate410

Does the bracelet have any form of micro adjusting?


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## Alex_TA

Crate410 said:


> Does the bracelet have any form of micro adjusting?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes.

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## Solomente

Congratulations my friend, what a beautiful watch! You and I have similar taste in watches (even not counting the red Zenith) and these past few months while everyone has been dismissing the new overseas as worse than the previous, I've silently thought the new blue dial is the best one yet. You're nice review is reinforcing that. Enjoy it!


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## mlcor

EnderW said:


> Great review. It is indeed a stunning watch, especially the dial. I was extremely impressed when I tried it on, but alas it was too big for my puny 6.25" wrists.
> 
> I do have a question - granted in a small period of ownership - but how are you liking the strap change system? I played with them this past weekend and it was cool that I could change strap to bracelet and back again in a matter of seconds. But I did wonder about the security of it. When I tried it on, at one point a bracelet came off from one of the lugs all on its own (lucky I grabbed the watch immediately). Not sure if it was just a sample watch that may have been mishandled. Doubt VC would put out a product if there was any real risk of the endlink disconnecting, but wanted to see if it is easy to use and feels secure to an owner.


Thanks. The quick change system seems secure to me. I only used it once, to take a picture of the back. The tab requires a fair amount of pressure to disengage it (it's spring loaded, I assume), and it's hard for me to imagine having it happen accidentally. What I *could* see is the possibility of someone not seating it properly when putting it back on--maybe that's what happened with the one you tried on. I wore it for a couple of days, and prefer my watches snug rather than loose--seemed totally solid, without any chance of it coming loose.


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## mlcor

Vig2000 said:


> The non-hacking seconds is unfortunately a deal breaker for me. Makes it that much more difficult to set the watch to a known and accurate reference time, which I like to do for all my watches just for informal accuracy checks. I find it very puzzling as to why VC decided to make this one non-hacking. I mean, a manual can perhaps get away with non-hacking seconds, but a modern day automatic VC movement that doesn't hack, especially one that's a brand new in-house movement.


The lack of hacking doesn't bother me as much as you, but it is mystifying that they would design a brand new movement that way. Is there some disadvantage to a hacking movement that would lead them to do it this way? Maybe I'll send them an email and see if they respond...


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## mlcor

Crate410 said:


> Does the bracelet have any form of micro adjusting?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't see any. There are several removable half links as well as full links, which should enable a good fit. I have pretty average sized wrists and prefer my watches snug, removing one full size link was all it took for me. A micro adjustment would be nice, but you would sacrifice the sleek design of the bracelet and clasp.


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## mlcor

Solomente said:


> Congratulations my friend, what a beautiful watch! You and I have similar taste in watches (even not counting the red Zenith) and these past few months while everyone has been dismissing the new overseas as worse than the previous, I've silently thought the new blue dial is the best one yet. You're nice review is reinforcing that. Enjoy it!


Thanks, Solomente. Actually, I agree that the new chronograph design is less attractive than the old one, mainly because of the date. I cannot fathom why someone designing a brand new case and movement would put the date at 4:30.


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## Solomente

mlcor said:


> Thanks, Solomente. Actually, I agree that the new chronograph design is less attractive than the old one, mainly because of the date. I cannot fathom why someone designing a brand new case and movement would put the date at 4:30.


That's true, the big date of the old chrono is nicer. But the 3 hand design has improved in my opinion.


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## mlcor

Solomente said:


> That's true, the big date of the old chrono is nicer. But the 3 hand design has improved in my opinion.


Agreed. Obviously. 

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## Tick Talk

Only the Gen I Chronometer was a hacking movement, base GP 3100. Apparently VC didn't see the need for precise setting when they dropped chronometer designation for Gen II onwards. I've been told by official sources that its safe to "back-hack" the JLC-based movements, but I don't know if the same is true with their new inhouse caliber...will ask.


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## EnderW

Vig2000 said:


> The non-hacking seconds is unfortunately a deal breaker for me. Makes it that much more difficult to set the watch to a known and accurate reference time, which I like to do for all my watches just for informal accuracy checks. I find it very puzzling as to why VC decided to make this one non-hacking. I mean, a manual can perhaps get away with non-hacking seconds, but a modern day automatic VC movement that doesn't hack, especially one that's a brand new in-house movement...:think:





mlcor said:


> The lack of hacking doesn't bother me as much as you, but it is mystifying that they would design a brand new movement that way. Is there some disadvantage to a hacking movement that would lead them to do it this way? Maybe I'll send them an email and see if they respond...


It is indeed a puzzling thing. I have noticed many high-end watch makers (Patek, Breguet, etc) avoid hacking feature as part of their design methodology.
I've heard different reasons given for this: from hacking introducing rate variation, to sudden balance stoppage being bad for the watch. The one that made most sense - supposedly Patek folks said that they view time as a continuous flow and did not want to add a function to stop it. No clue how valid any of these claims are.

That said, on a three hander the hacking function would be useful since it makes it easier to set time and track accuracy. Lack of hacking makes a lot more sense in the new ultrathin overseas which has no second hand and runs at a lower beat rate...

Regardless - stunning watches in Gen3.








PS. Anyone has a recipe for bulking up wrist size without gaining any weight? I'm being prevented from wearing too many nice watches by my puny wrist girth.


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## mlcor

EnderW said:


> It is indeed a puzzling thing. I have noticed many high-end watch makers (Patek, Breguet, etc) avoid hacking feature as part of their design methodology.
> I've heard different reasons given for this: from hacking introducing rate variation, to sudden balance stoppage being bad for the watch. The one that made most sense - supposedly Patek folks said that they view time as a continuous flow and did not want to add a function to stop it. No clue how valid any of these claims are.
> 
> That said, on a three hander the hacking function would be useful since it makes it easier to set time and track accuracy. Lack of hacking makes a lot more sense in the new ultrathin overseas which has no second hand and runs at a lower beat rate...
> 
> Regardless - stunning watches in Gen3.
> View attachment 9713770
> 
> 
> PS. Anyone has a recipe for bulking up wrist size without gaining any weight? I'm being prevented from wearing too many nice watches by my puny wrist girth.


LOL. Sorry, no. The "time is a flow" quote might be one of the silliest justifications I've ever heard. Now, the more technical reasons might hold water, I guess...

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## Wolfy1909

Hi mlcor,thanks so much for this stunning review.:-! Great watch, always wear it in the best of health.Concerning the non-hacking issue, I also haven't heard a "real" explanation so far, but as already mentioned, also PP and some other high end watch makers do not have that.Anyway, perfect watch and I'll go for the blue one in the near future.Best regards from good old Germany Wolfgang


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## Alex_TA

mlcor said:


> I don't see any. There are several removable half links as well as full links, which should enable a good fit. I have pretty average sized wrists and prefer my watches snug, removing one full size link was all it took for me. A micro adjustment would be nice, but you would sacrifice the sleek design of the bracelet and clasp.


Keep looking  Not only VC site asserts its presence, I've seen it by my own eyes.

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## epX

mlcor said:


> I don't see any. There are several removable half links as well as full links, which should enable a good fit. I have pretty average sized wrists and prefer my watches snug, removing one full size link was all it took for me. A micro adjustment would be nice, but you would sacrifice the sleek design of the bracelet and clasp.


There is a micro adjustment built into the bracelet on both sides of the clasp. 4mm in total, 2mm on each side. Haven't tried it myself, but the salesperson at the boutique showed it to me. Not quite sure how the mechanism works, but it looked like he simply pulled on both sides of the bracelet.


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## UberDave

mlcor said:


> LOL. Sorry, no. The "time is a flow" quote might be one of the silliest justifications I've ever heard. Now, the more technical reasons might hold water, I guess...


I feel like if a brand is going to use the "time is a flow" justification they should probably go ahead and design a watch that never stops running too...o|

Thanks for the write-up, and congrats on your purchase. I've never been a huge fan of prior versions of the Overseas but this update is really quite good looking. Enjoy!


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## mlcor

Alex_TA said:


> Keep looking  Not only VC site asserts its presence, I've seen it by my own eyes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you give me a hint? 

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## mlcor

epX said:


> There is a micro adjustment built into the bracelet on both sides of the clasp. 4mm in total, 2mm on each side. Haven't tried it myself, but the salesperson at the boutique showed it to me. Not quite sure how the mechanism works, but it looked like he simply pulled on both sides of the bracelet.


I will have to look more closely, I guess. With my reading glasses on. 

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## Alex_TA

mlcor said:


> Can you give me a hint?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is a video on VC site. I'm afraid to give hints, it's your watch.

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## mlcor

Alex_TA said:


> There is a video on VC site. I'm afraid to give hints, it's your watch.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Thanks, I'm off to the VC website!

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## mlcor

Found the video--thanks. But still no clue as to how it works. I don't see an obvious button or release. Will contact the dealer and see if they can get me instructions.

EDIT: Well, that's easy--you just hold the clasp and pull on the link on either side (or both), they pull out 2mm each. To make it smaller again, simply push it back. Really nice feature.


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## DickoryDoc

What an amazing watch mlcor - this is definitely on my shortlist! Could I ask - does the date change instantaneously on your new Overseas? The non-hacking aspect I can understand given the precedent with similar high end sports watches, but an instantaneous date change would be a nice feature given the modernity of the movement and the amazing case and dial.

Thank you in advance!


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## maikeru

Congrats on your new VC and nice review. Although I am leaning more towards the white dial, you just can't go wrong with either the blue or the white.


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## mlcor

DickoryDoc said:


> What an amazing watch mlcor - this is definitely on my shortlist! Could I ask - does the date change instantaneously on your new Overseas? The non-hacking aspect I can understand given the precedent with similar high end sports watches, but an instantaneous date change would be a nice feature given the modernity of the movement and the amazing case and dial.
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Thanks, and welcome to the forum. Yes, the date change is instantaneous, although I've not timed it to see if it's precisely at midnight. Very few watches at this level wouldn't do so, especially with a newly designed movement.


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## Alex_TA

How about the accuracy?


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## mlcor

Alex_TA said:


> How about the accuracy?


Haven't put it on a Timegrapher, but eyeballing it seemed to show about +2 or 3 seconds per day, well within COSC. Certainly good enough for me. Especially since the movement doesn't hack.

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## DickoryDoc

mlcor said:


> Thanks, and welcome to the forum. Yes, the date change is instantaneous, although I've not timed it to see if it's precisely at midnight. Very few watches at this level wouldn't do so, especially with a newly designed movement.


Yes I assumed as much but as it is a brand new movt there is very little detail about it available, so thank you for sharing with us this amazing piece!


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## mojojojo

Exceptional watch and a wonderful addition to your collection. I was lucky enough to try the blue and silver (both 3 hander and chrono) at my AD last week. Like a few others I thought the blue would be for me but found en-wrist the white to be much more down my own alley. Very surprising, but in the natural light the blue does pop rather well. Love it, wear in the best of health


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## reuven

What a great review! Dont really share your enthusiasm for that watch, yet your review goes so nice into details. would like to read more posts like this. Thank you. 

I understand your concern with the hacking seconds feature. I would not care. I missed that feature on my watch also, yet, some month later, i didnt care anymore.

Congratulations!


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## Spangles

Such a great watch! More pictures, please!

Mr.Journe talked about why he didn't add hacking seconds on his watches. Someone will recall better than me at the moment, but it had to do with the accuracy of the movement, not "time is a flow" (which is the phrase of the thread!).


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## mlcor

Spangles said:


> Such a great watch! More pictures, please!
> 
> Mr.Journe talked about why he didn't add hacking seconds on his watches. Someone will recall better than me at the moment, but it had to do with the accuracy of the movement, not "time is a flow" (which is the phrase of the thread!).


Goodness, that wasn't enough pictures??


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## Spangles

mlcor said:


> Goodness, that wasn't enough pictures??


Ha, never!


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## Tick Talk

mlcor, have you tried back-hack to stop the seconds? Crown to setting position with slight backwards pressure.


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## Ksuarez56

Great review


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## mlcor

Tick Talk said:


> mlcor, have you tried back-hack to stop the seconds? Crown to setting position with slight backwards pressure.


No, haven't tried it with this watch--I am going to ask VC if it's OK to do it, I don't feel comfortable unless they say it's acceptable. I did that with my Breguet Marine, got a note back from Breguet saying it was fine to do it so long as I didn't move the hands backward far enough to change the date (what I would never have done).

Of course, if it's acceptable to back-hack without hurting the movement, it begs the question as to why they wouldn't just design the movement to hack in the first place. Could that be any worse for the movement than back-hacking? Unless it's not about causing damage but just about accuracy.


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## harryst

mlcor said:


> Could that be any worse for the movement than back-hacking? Unless it's not about causing damage but just about accuracy.


Are you sure you remember correctly re the accuracy thingy? A brief search returned - via timezone - this: technical questions
(also this: http://www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/29881/)


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## mlcor

harryst said:


> Are you sure you remember correctly re the accuracy thingy? A brief search returned - via timezone - this: technical questions
> (also this: Hacking seconds function - damage to movement? | Forum | IWC)


Thanks for those links, they seem to say that the matter of whether the hacking function is bad for the movement is still open to debate. I have no memory of the accuracy thing, it was just mentioned earlier in this thread as a possible explanation. I have no idea, myself.

I've sent a question off to VC as to whether back-hacking would be bad for the movement or not; I will report back what they tell me in this thread.


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## Vig2000

harryst said:


> Are you sure you remember correctly re the accuracy thingy? A brief search returned - via timezone - this: technical questions
> (also this: Hacking seconds function - damage to movement? | Forum | IWC)





mlcor said:


> I've sent a question off to VC as to whether back-hacking would be bad for the movement or not; I will report back what they tell me in this thread.


It seems like the hacking vs. non-hacking debate is a matter of opinion more than anything else since there is really no concrete evidence supporting either position. With high end watchmakers, such as VC et al., foregoing the hacking feature is seemingly a preservation of tradition as the vast majority of modern-day watch movements do hack. Although, I am curious as to what VC will say about back-hacking.


----------



## mlcor

UPDATE:

So, I have already heard back from VC--same day response, pretty impressive. I had also asked whether they recommended (for someone like me who will only wear the watch once every week or two) letting the watch run down and manually rewinding it when I'm going to wear it, or putting it on a winder. I don't want to rekindle that endless debate, just thought it would be interesting to get their view. Here is their response to both questions:

"Thank you very much for your message and your interest in Vacheron Constantin.

In regards to your inquiry, no harm is done to the watch if you "back-hack" the movement to set the time accurately on your Overseas timepiece.

Our watchmakers actually don't recommend putting our timepieces on automatic watch winders, as they can accelerate the wear of the movements, and cause the components to wear quicker than normal. It is good practice to allow the timepiece to power down and come to a rest over time.

If you only wear the timepiece occasionally, we recommend you wind the timepiece once a month as this keeps the oil distributed in the movement of the timepiece. We recommend winding your timepiece by using the crown, and simply turn it 30-40 revolutions to power up the timepiece again."

There you have it.


----------



## Vig2000

I meant to ask what you think about the seconds hand: I think that it's disproportionately long at the tail end or that's how it appears in your photos at least. And its length seems to be further accentuated by that bulbous tail end. Again, it may look different in person, but I would've definitely preferred it if VC stuck with the seconds hand of the previous generation. That's my only aesthetic complaint about it.


----------



## mlcor

Vig2000 said:


> I meant to ask what you think about the seconds hand: I think that it's disproportionately long at the tail end or that's how it appears in your photos at least. And its length seems to be further accentuated by that bulbous tail end. Again, it may look different in person, but I would've definitely preferred it if VC stuck with the seconds hand of the previous generation. That my only aesthetic complaint about it.


It is long, so it reaches the seconds track on the rehaut. Personally, I like it, to me it gives the watch a bit more character than a plain one, plus I think it's in keeping with the sporty nature of the watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## schrop

Congratulations. Truly stunning and one I've had my eye on since the announcement. My wrist is 6 7/8" and this would be at the upper end in both dimensions. Tried on a Gen 2 in the Caribbean and liked it though...

Interested in where you will wear it, how "hard" you'll wear it, would you take it in water, etc.


----------



## schrop

oh and - I like the style of watches you like (and Solomente too)


----------



## mlcor

schrop said:


> Congratulations. Truly stunning and one I've had my eye on since the announcement. My wrist is 6 7/8" and this would be at the upper end in both dimensions. Tried on a Gen 2 in the Caribbean and liked it though...
> 
> Interested in where you will wear it, how "hard" you'll wear it, would you take it in water, etc.


I don't plan on swimming with it (or any other really nice watch, regardless of its pressure rating). I have other watches for that. I'll wear it with business casual and casual dress. Probably won't wear it for really strenuous activities for the same reasons.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DickoryDoc

mlcor said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> So, I have already heard back from VC--same day response, pretty impressive...
> 
> *Our watchmakers actually don't recommend putting our timepieces on automatic watch winders, as they can accelerate the wear of the movements, and cause the components to wear quicker than normal. It is good practice to allow the timepiece to power down and come to a rest over time.*
> 
> If you only wear the timepiece occasionally, we recommend you wind the timepiece once a month as this keeps the oil distributed in the movement of the timepiece. We recommend winding your timepiece by using the crown, and simply turn it 30-40 revolutions to power up the timepiece again."


This is interesting, and seems to go against the advice given on the maintenance section of VC's website re watchwinders!

"If you do not wear your watch regularly, *you are recommended to use an automatic watch winder* case suitable for your model of watch to ensure that it continues to function permanently. In this way you will avoid the need to adjust the time-setting of your watch too frequently."


----------



## mlcor

DickoryDoc said:


> This is interesting, and seems to go against the advice given on the maintenance section of VC's website re watchwinders!
> 
> "If you do not wear your watch regularly, *you are recommended to use an automatic watch winder* case suitable for your model of watch to ensure that it continues to function permanently. In this way you will avoid the need to adjust the time-setting of your watch too frequently."


Interesting indeed, and just goes to show how divided opinion is on the issue, I guess. For me, I've decided to compromise--for all watches that are easy to re-set, I'm going to take them off winders. For the few I have that are more difficult (moon phase, etc.), I'm going to keep them on winders. That should make everyone happy.


----------



## Tick Talk

DickoryDoc said:


> This is interesting, and seems to go against the advice given on the maintenance section of VC's website re watchwinders!
> 
> "If you do not wear your watch regularly, *you are recommended to use an automatic watch winder* case suitable for your model of watch to ensure that it continues to function permanently. In this way you will avoid the need to adjust the time-setting of your watch too frequently."


LOL, that advice is found in the same section as their recommendation for regular servicing. Is there a connection?


----------



## dbostedo

DickoryDoc said:


> This is interesting, and seems to go against the advice given on the maintenance section of VC's website re watchwinders!
> 
> "If you do not wear your watch regularly, *you are recommended to use an automatic watch winder* case suitable for your model of watch to ensure that it continues to function permanently. In this way you will avoid the need to adjust the time-setting of your watch too frequently."





mlcor said:


> Interesting indeed, and just goes to show how divided opinion is on the issue, I guess. For me, I've decided to compromise--for all watches that are easy to re-set, I'm going to take them off winders. For the few I have that are more difficult (moon phase, etc.), I'm going to keep them on winders. That should make everyone happy.





Tick Talk said:


> LOL, that advice is found in the same section as their recommendation for regular servicing. Is there a connection?


In order to actually know whether you should use a winder or not, you'd need a large sample of watches all put through a properly controlled experiment to test out the various options (winder, no-winder but worn, not often worn but wound, neither often worn or wound, not wound, etc.)

Given all of this and other things I've read, I doubt that the watch companies actually have good data on this. Which means that whatever advice you see is the opinion of that person or group. And that means it's probably not consistent, even within a company.

Myself? I suspect that winder or not makes minimal difference either way across a large enough sample (and hence, I use winders).


----------



## Perazzi-man

Micor: My serial number is 8 numbers higher than your's.

Congrats. I could not be happier w/ mine.


----------



## mlcor

Perazzi-man said:


> Micor: My serial number is 8 numbers higher than your's.
> 
> Congrats. I could not be happier w/ mine.


Right back atcha.


----------



## IGotId

OP, thanks for the pics & review! Beautiful watch!



Perazzi-man said:


> Micor: My serial number is 8 numbers higher than your's.
> 
> Congrats. I could not be happier w/ mine.


I have a couple of questions for the OP & Perazzi-man, were you able to get a discount? How does the 41mm case fit, size-wise? Larger, smaller, true-to-size?


----------



## mlcor

IGotId said:


> OP, thanks for the pics & review! Beautiful watch!
> 
> I have a couple of questions for the OP & Perazzi-man, were you able to get a discount? How does the 41mm case fit, size-wise? Larger, smaller, true-to-size?


Thanks. I did get a good discount. I think it wears pretty true to size--my wrist is a pretty flat 7.25", if that helps. It wears thinner than its 11mm because some of that is the bezel rather than the case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Citlalcoatl

So I tried on this offering from VC at a boutique in the USA with the hope I would love it and it would be my next purchase and spent about 10 minutes with it so take this post with a grain of salt (or a dram of scotch) as this is a first impression and not something that I've been able to spend extensive time with evaluating. 


In short, I liked this watch and wanted to like it more but couldn't...more on that in a bit.


I feel it wears about as large as I would expect 41mm to be. As someone used to the 38-39mm range this felt a little odd but not terribly so and by no means was a disqualifier. I agree with the earlier post on that it wears a little thinner than one might expect but it is by no means an "ultra thin" so don't go in there thinking such (unless you're looking at the ultra thin time-only version of course...). It should certainly work with a dress shirt as long as your cuffs aren't too tight. The french cuffs I was wearing at the time caught a bit on the watch but it wasn't terrible.


It subjectively felt like it wore long as well as I feel some in the Genta style do on me (though the Overseas was not designed by him by my recollection)...kind of how the grande Reversos wear on some (though in full disclosure I do not have this issue with mine). If this is a problem for you though, because it is a rounder shape, it might look larger than you'd like compared to a rectangular Reverso depending on your wrist size and shape.


It was surprisingly light for its size but not overly so and felt nice on the wrist. The dial deceptively has some great detail and the pictures online do not do it justice. If you are even considering this piece I would try to see it in person. The strap change option was a nice little addition and the overall appearance was sharp. Its an expensive watch and it looks like one from the dial to the reverse side.


Now on the flip side, I liked it....I just didn't love it enough for the price. 


Once you get to the level of VC, there are a multitude of worthy competitors out there and this is where the issue comes up. I'm not convinced this is "the watch". While VC will present the laundry list of things about the watch (from anti magnetic claims and the in house movement to water resistance), I find nothing truly special about this offering at this price range other than the gimmick of band changes...which is just that, a gimmick. Useful to some, a mostly unused curiosity to others (_Although I'm sure people who purchase this watch should and will go out of their way to use the strap change option just as some will use the sunroof in their car they paid extra for&#8230;you all use your sunroof right?&#8230;Don't worry, I don't either_).


While the devil is always in the details at this range, when someone does a three hand date at this price in stainless steel they had better knock it out of the park. After all, I have a lowly tag carrera with an incredibly similar dial design and keeps fantastic time with its eta movement...is the extra 18-19k worth an in-house movement and subtle details? A WIS might say "yes" (including myself), though I bet most others might say "no" (as sales indicate)...but it has to be done well enough relative to its cost.


Would I change bands? Probably not. I do not see myself as wearing a watch like this on a rubber strap to go swimming with (and I suspect most who purchase this watch will not either)...for formal occasions with a leather strap, there are better, thinner options (or more iconic)....for bracelet every day, there are better, more robust options.


In summary, this is a great looking piece, but the bracelet gimmick is really that...a gimmick. Due to the nature of its connection, I found I didn't love the way the strap lined up with the case and I question how it will wear over time, though I don't think this will bother everyone and I have no proof of its stability over the course of years in either direction (especially as it has just come out).


Most who can spend this kind of money on a watch could buy (or more likely, do buy) several pieces...the biggest problem with the "GADA" type watches...or "GADA _anything_" is they rarely do anything extraordinary and present themselves as "acceptable" in each category which is why it is so hard to find a great one and any list for something even close always has the same pieces again and again, with some relying on the name and history to get by in the more formal circles rather than design.

That's all well and good at the lower ends when someone truly can't afford (or doesn't want to spend) money on multiple pieces. However, when the MRSP (whether you pay it or benefit from a discount) is nearing 20k, I would want that watch to excel at something beyond its name and price. I mean...one could easily buy a Gshock for swimming, a Rolex explorer or sub (or a similar tool watch) for a bracelet watch, and a JLC dress watch in steel all for the same price and have some variety (or a different combo if one would never find themselves swimming with a watch and rubber straps are useless to them)&#8230;.if I'm buying one watch instead of those three and its not a precious metal, I expect it to be more.


----------



## GETS

I would echo some of what the poster above has said.

It depends if you like the move away from the more obvious Gerald Genta styled watches (AP RO, PP Nautilus) to something with slightly softer lines? Some will and some won't. I do.

I like the watch quite a bit and do think the move of the date window and the change of indices were very good moves as well.

Congratulations on an iconic purchase.


----------



## Tick Talk

GETS said:


> Congratulations on an iconic purchase.


 Well the new OS has yet to earn _iconic_ status, still leaning on the _iconic_ 222.


----------



## mlcor

Citlalcoatl said:


> So I tried on this offering from VC at a boutique in the USA with the hope I would love it and it would be my next purchase and spent about 10 minutes with it so take this post with a grain of salt (or a dram of scotch) as this is a first impression and not something that I've been able to spend extensive time with evaluating.
> 
> 
> In short, I liked this watch and wanted to like it more but couldn't...more on that in a bit.
> 
> 
> I feel it wears about as large as I would expect 41mm to be. As someone used to the 38-39mm range this felt a little odd but not terribly so and by no means was a disqualifier. I agree with the earlier post on that it wears a little thinner than one might expect but it is by no means an "ultra thin" so don't go in there thinking such (unless you're looking at the ultra thin time-only version of course...). It should certainly work with a dress shirt as long as your cuffs aren't too tight. The french cuffs I was wearing at the time caught a bit on the watch but it wasn't terrible.
> 
> 
> It subjectively felt like it wore long as well as I feel some in the Genta style do on me (though the Overseas was not designed by him by my recollection)...kind of how the grande Reversos wear on some (though in full disclosure I do not have this issue with mine). If this is a problem for you though, because it is a rounder shape, it might look larger than you'd like compared to a rectangular Reverso depending on your wrist size and shape.
> 
> 
> It was surprisingly light for its size but not overly so and felt nice on the wrist. The dial deceptively has some great detail and the pictures online do not do it justice. If you are even considering this piece I would try to see it in person. The strap change option was a nice little addition and the overall appearance was sharp. Its an expensive watch and it looks like one from the dial to the reverse side.
> 
> 
> Now on the flip side, I liked it....I just didn't love it enough for the price.
> 
> 
> Once you get to the level of VC, there are a multitude of worthy competitors out there and this is where the issue comes up. I'm not convinced this is "the watch". While VC will present the laundry list of things about the watch (from anti magnetic claims and the in house movement to water resistance), I find nothing truly special about this offering at this price range other than the gimmick of band changes...which is just that, a gimmick. Useful to some, a mostly unused curiosity to others (_Although I'm sure people who purchase this watch should and will go out of their way to use the strap change option just as some will use the sunroof in their car they paid extra for&#8230;you all use your sunroof right?&#8230;Don't worry, I don't either_).
> 
> 
> While the devil is always in the details at this range, when someone does a three hand date at this price in stainless steel they had better knock it out of the park. After all, I have a lowly tag carrera with an incredibly similar dial design and keeps fantastic time with its eta movement...is the extra 18-19k worth an in-house movement and subtle details? A WIS might say "yes" (including myself), though I bet most others might say "no" (as sales indicate)...but it has to be done well enough relative to its cost.
> 
> 
> Would I change bands? Probably not. I do not see myself as wearing a watch like this on a rubber strap to go swimming with (and I suspect most who purchase this watch will not either)...for formal occasions with a leather strap, there are better, thinner options (or more iconic)....for bracelet every day, there are better, more robust options.
> 
> 
> In summary, this is a great looking piece, but the bracelet gimmick is really that...a gimmick. Due to the nature of its connection, I found I didn't love the way the strap lined up with the case and I question how it will wear over time, though I don't think this will bother everyone and I have no proof of its stability over the course of years in either direction (especially as it has just come out).
> 
> 
> Most who can spend this kind of money on a watch could buy (or more likely, do buy) several pieces...the biggest problem with the "GADA" type watches...or "GADA _anything_" is they rarely do anything extraordinary and present themselves as "acceptable" in each category which is why it is so hard to find a great one and any list for something even close always has the same pieces again and again, with some relying on the name and history to get by in the more formal circles rather than design.
> 
> That's all well and good at the lower ends when someone truly can't afford (or doesn't want to spend) money on multiple pieces. However, when the MRSP (whether you pay it or benefit from a discount) is nearing 20k, I would want that watch to excel at something beyond its name and price. I mean...one could easily buy a Gshock for swimming, a Rolex explorer or sub (or a similar tool watch) for a bracelet watch, and a JLC dress watch in steel all for the same price and have some variety (or a different combo if one would never find themselves swimming with a watch and rubber straps are useless to them)&#8230;.if I'm buying one watch instead of those three and its not a precious metal, I expect it to be more.


I would agree most are likely to stick with the bracelet, as I will, simply because it's so good. As you suggest, I have other watches for dress situations, and don't view this as a watch I'd wear for that purpose. But I can wear it for almost anything else except again, I agree with you that I wouldn't wear it for swimming. I have less costly watches of I ever wanted to do that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DickoryDoc

Citlalcoatl said:


> Once you get to the level of VC, there are a multitude of worthy competitors out there and this is where the issue comes up. I'm not convinced this is "the watch". While VC will present the laundry list of things about the watch (from anti magnetic claims and the in house movement to water resistance), I find nothing truly special about this offering at this price range other than the gimmick of band changes...which is just that, a gimmick. Useful to some, a mostly unused curiosity to others (_Although I'm sure people who purchase this watch should and will go out of their way to use the strap change option just as some will use the sunroof in their car they paid extra for&#8230;you all use your sunroof right?&#8230;Don't worry, I don't either_).
> 
> 
> While the devil is always in the details at this range, when someone does a three hand date at this price in stainless steel they had better knock it out of the park. After all, I have a lowly tag carrera with an incredibly similar dial design and keeps fantastic time with its eta movement...is the extra 18-19k worth an in-house movement and subtle details? A WIS might say "yes" (including myself), though I bet most others might say "no" (as sales indicate)...but it has to be done well enough relative to its cost.


I think there are a couple of issues here. First, I think you obviously have a philosophy that if you are going to spend $15k+ on a watch then it better do more than tell the time. Most people probably have the same philosophy for any watch over about $100, in which case they would claim their $100 Daniel wellington or emporio armani keeps the time as well as your $1.5k TAG - and that the $1,400 difference for a stock ETA movt instead of a stock quartz one simply isn't worth it (again, as sales indicate).

of course, we are all a special breed here and don't buy into such nonsense! Nevertheless, I dispute that a watch has to have a tourbillon or some other ridiculous complication to be "worth" this amount of money. When I think about he watches I would wear everyday, they are 3 hand models with a date. The VC overseas, or a Patek nautilus, and to a lesser extent a Rolex datejust or Submariner are "everyday luxury" watches that are indeed life companions, as they will be on your wrist most of the time - unlike a pure dress watch or a complicated piece like a tourbillon. A luxury 3-hander like the Overseas is the essence of mechanical watchmaking IMO.

Whether you like the design or not is completely up to the individual of course! Personally, I love it (though I am biased being part Maltese, and the watch features our national emblem everywhere!) but it's understandable if someone doesn't feel the same.

but philosophically, I would like the best of everything - the best everyday watch, the best dress watch and the best sports/dive watch etc. with the priority being on the everyday because, well, everyday is everyday.


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## Dirk3245

Requesting more wrist shots.
Stunning watch! Hope to own it in the next 5 years.


----------



## Citlalcoatl

DickoryDoc said:


> I think there are a couple of issues here. First, I think you obviously have a philosophy that if you are going to spend $15k+ on a watch then it better do more than tell the time.
> 
> of course, we are all a special breed here and don't buy into such nonsense! Nevertheless, I dispute that a watch has to have a tourbillon or some other ridiculous complication to be "worth" this amount of money. When I think about he watches I would wear everyday, they are 3 hand models with a date. The VC overseas, or a Patek nautilus, and to a lesser extent a Rolex datejust or Submariner are "everyday luxury" watches that are indeed life companions, as they will be on your wrist most of the time - unlike a pure dress watch or a complicated piece like a tourbillon. A luxury 3-hander like the Overseas is the essence of mechanical watchmaking IMO....
> 
> but philosophically, I would like the best of everything - the best everyday watch, the best dress watch and the best sports/dive watch etc. with the priority being on the everyday because, well, everyday is everyday.


I don't think it is obvious that I have such a philosophy, after all I went in expecting to buy a piece I knew only told time and had a date complication. My MUT Jubilee does nothing but tell time and most of my other watches don't do anything other than tell time and perhaps have a date either.

From my standpoint, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of an expensive "everyday" watch with three hands and a date, and I'm in the market for a good one currently. My opinion on this particular piece is posted above...it's not that the watch is "bad"..its awesome! The question I have is "is this the best everyday watch within this price range"? My personal answer is "no". That's not to discredit those who like the watch....its a great watch! Quite frankly if it were priced in the range of the previous Overseas models, I'd say this was one of the best buys out there.

The issue is where VC placed it in the higher price point compared to the previous Overseas models such that it competes even more directly with iconic "everyday" watches in the Genta-style, some of which have something truly interesting about their movement (like the RO UT Jumbo). More specifically, I feel keeping the Genta-like shape automatically further puts it in direct competition with the RO and Nautilus as is mentioned...so VC is set with the task of putting something in to set it apart...and instead of an improvement "under the hood" to compete with more iconic pieces, they have a bracelet switch.

All three at similar prices are stainless steel and use in-house movements. The RO and PP have very distinct dial designs...the Overseas Simple Date has the most generic (though as I mentioned it still has quite a bit of detail) and I felt that it was like buying a 20k car with 40k in detail and improvements under the hood to make it compete with a 60k car...now I'm not the one to love "flashy" and I do enjoy "under the radar" pieces, so to some this is ideal.

The question comes down to what are you paying for? "The best" everyday watch definition comes down to ...what do you do everyday. This watch is not going to be as robust as something from Rolex or designed to be used as a tool watch probably...it simply isn't. It isn't made of gold. It doesn't have any fancy complications nor is it an ultra thin. I'm suspecting that most will wear this as an everyday watch in a business or professional realm of some sort rather than the gym or hiking. Nothing wrong with this by itself.

So what you are truly paying for with the extra money is the movement and the name (both are worth quite a bit to WIS with good reason). This is where it breaks down for me at a fundamental level though...because once you have decided you are paying for the name in this model, then it is at a disadvantage compared to more iconic lines also using the vaunted "in house movement"....not to say VC is not iconic in and of itself, but you are comparing a brand new design from VC with iconic ones from PP and AP.

The question is do you like the watch, do you like the idea of the watch, do you like (or care) what others who know about watches might say if anything at all (or what those who don't might say)? Do I like the answers to all three for this piece? Yes. Do I like the answers to all three compared to similar watches?.....I'm not sure...maybe I would change my mind with a second/third look.


----------



## mlcor

Citlalcoatl said:


> I don't think it is obvious that I have such a philosophy, after all I went in expecting to buy a piece I knew only told time and had a date complication. My MUT Jubilee does nothing but tell time and most of my other watches don't do anything other than tell time and perhaps have a date either.
> 
> From my standpoint, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of an expensive "everyday" watch with three hands and a date, and I'm in the market for a good one currently. My opinion on this particular piece is posted above...it's not that the watch is "bad"..its awesome! The question I have is "is this the best everyday watch within this price range"? My personal answer is "no". That's not to discredit those who like the watch....its a great watch! Quite frankly if it were priced in the range of the previous Overseas models, I'd say this was one of the best buys out there.
> 
> The issue is where VC placed it in the higher price point compared to the previous Overseas models such that it competes even more directly with iconic "everyday" watches in the Genta-style, some of which have something truly interesting about their movement (like the RO UT Jumbo). More specifically, I feel keeping the Genta-like shape automatically further puts it in direct competition with the RO and Nautilus as is mentioned...so VC is set with the task of putting something in to set it apart...and instead of an improvement "under the hood" to compete with more iconic pieces, they have a bracelet switch.
> 
> All three at similar prices are stainless steel and use in-house movements. The RO and PP have very distinct dial designs...the Overseas Simple Date has the most generic (though as I mentioned it still has quite a bit of detail) and I felt that it was like buying a 20k car with 40k in detail and improvements under the hood to make it compete with a 60k car...now I'm not the one to love "flashy" and I do enjoy "under the radar" pieces, so to some this is ideal.
> 
> The question comes down to what are you paying for? "The best" everyday watch definition comes down to ...what do you do everyday. This watch is not going to be as robust as something from Rolex or designed to be used as a tool watch probably...it simply isn't. It isn't made of gold. It doesn't have any fancy complications nor is it an ultra thin. I'm suspecting that most will wear this as an everyday watch in a business or professional realm of some sort rather than the gym or hiking. Nothing wrong with this by itself.
> 
> So what you are truly paying for with the extra money is the movement and the name (both are worth quite a bit to WIS with good reason). This is where it breaks down for me at a fundamental level though...because once you have decided you are paying for the name in this model, then it is at a disadvantage compared to more iconic lines also using the vaunted "in house movement"....not to say VC is not iconic in and of itself, but you are comparing a brand new design from VC with iconic ones from PP and AP.
> 
> The question is do you like the watch, do you like the idea of the watch, do you like (or care) what others who know about watches might say if anything at all (or what those who don't might say)? Do I like the answers to all three for this piece? Yes. Do I like the answers to all three compared to similar watches?.....I'm not sure...maybe I would change my mind with a second/third look.


All good points, and illustrate why these brands survive--different tastes. For example, I am in the minority in that I don't care at all for the styling of the Nautilus. I agree that VC is pushing it with their list price on the three hander...however, I was able to get a substantial discount from an AD, so perhaps there is some room there. The price I paid was quite a bit less than the price for a boutique-only blue dialed Royal Oak (which is a stunning piece). At the end of the day, I decided the VC was a bit less flashy, which suited me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

Dirk3245 said:


> Requesting more wrist shots.
> Stunning watch! Hope to own it in the next 5 years.


Here's a series of shots I took to demonstrate how the dial changes at different angles.














































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DickoryDoc

Citlalcoatl said:


> I don't think it is obvious that I have such a philosophy, after all I went in expecting to buy a piece I knew only told time and had a date complication. My MUT Jubilee does nothing but tell time and most of my other watches don't do anything other than tell time and perhaps have a date either.
> 
> From my standpoint, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of an expensive "everyday" watch with three hands and a date, and I'm in the market for a good one currently. My opinion on this particular piece is posted above...it's not that the watch is "bad"..its awesome! The question I have is "is this the best everyday watch within this price range"? My personal answer is "no". That's not to discredit those who like the watch....its a great watch! Quite frankly if it were priced in the range of the previous Overseas models, I'd say this was one of the best buys out there.
> 
> The issue is where VC placed it in the higher price point compared to the previous Overseas models such that it competes even more directly with iconic "everyday" watches in the Genta-style, some of which have something truly interesting about their movement (like the RO UT Jumbo). More specifically, I feel keeping the Genta-like shape automatically further puts it in direct competition with the RO and Nautilus as is mentioned...so VC is set with the task of putting something in to set it apart...and instead of an improvement "under the hood" to compete with more iconic pieces, they have a bracelet switch.
> 
> All three at similar prices are stainless steel and use in-house movements. The RO and PP have very distinct dial designs...the Overseas Simple Date has the most generic (though as I mentioned it still has quite a bit of detail) and I felt that it was like buying a 20k car with 40k in detail and improvements under the hood to make it compete with a 60k car...now I'm not the one to love "flashy" and I do enjoy "under the radar" pieces, so to some this is ideal.
> 
> The question comes down to what are you paying for? "The best" everyday watch definition comes down to ...what do you do everyday. This watch is not going to be as robust as something from Rolex or designed to be used as a tool watch probably...it simply isn't. It isn't made of gold. It doesn't have any fancy complications nor is it an ultra thin. I'm suspecting that most will wear this as an everyday watch in a business or professional realm of some sort rather than the gym or hiking. Nothing wrong with this by itself.
> 
> So what you are truly paying for with the extra money is the movement and the name (both are worth quite a bit to WIS with good reason). This is where it breaks down for me at a fundamental level though...because once you have decided you are paying for the name in this model, then it is at a disadvantage compared to more iconic lines also using the vaunted "in house movement"....not to say VC is not iconic in and of itself, but you are comparing a brand new design from VC with iconic ones from PP and AP.
> 
> The question is do you like the watch, do you like the idea of the watch, do you like (or care) what others who know about watches might say if anything at all (or what those who don't might say)? Do I like the answers to all three for this piece? Yes. Do I like the answers to all three compared to similar watches?.....I'm not sure...maybe I would change my mind with a second/third look.


Ok, points taken - so can we distill all that down to: you don't like it as much as a Royal oak or a Nautilus?

Because I would question your assertion that VC haven't made any improvements "under the hood". This is a brand new movement with a longer PR and higher beat rate than the Nautilus or RO respectively. I am not a watchmaker but from the specs it appears more technically advanced and at least as well decorated- that rotor is one of the prettiest things going around (excuse small pun there) - than the older movts in the other two. Also, I would argue that the 'less is more' dial design, the unique case design, along with the use of lacquer to give the dial its depth of colour are all 'under the hood' (under the glass?) improvements as well. So I think it is unfair To say VC has just made a few "cosmetic" changes and added a strap system that may or may not be a gimmick.

Why does a Maserati cost more than a Toyota sports car? Performance, styling and brand name. Same reasons a Vacheron costs more than a TAG. Whether you think a Maserati is as good as an R8 Audi, or the Overseas it is worth it compared to a Royal Oak or a Nautilus is personal preference. I for one am with the OP - the AP is a bit flashy for me and, like the Nautilus, its iconic status (and its resultant ubiquity) can be seen as a negative.


----------



## Tick Talk

new discounted on fleabay already!!


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## mlcor

Tick Talk said:


> new discounted on fleabay already!!


Yep, apparently Jomashop has one. I feel even better about the price I paid now.


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## tony20009

IIRC, the legacy Overseas didn't carry the Geneva Seal. Not sure whether that was so for the ones made prior to the 2012 (?) change in the Geneva Seal standards or whether it was always so until now for the Overseas line. (One thing I'll bet on is someone posting an "is it real" thread because the preowned one they are considering buying doesn't have it, and they see the seal on the latest Overseas models. LOL)

Lovely watch. Enjoy.

All the best.


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## Tick Talk

tony20009 said:


> IIRC, the legacy Overseas didn't carry the Geneva Seal. Not sure whether that was so for the ones made prior to the 2012 (?) change in the Geneva Seal standards or whether it was always so until now for the Overseas line.


The Overseas line didn't gain the Geneva Seal until this latest Gen III and their inhouse caliber. The new GS standards include timing tests on the complete cased watch and can only vary 1 minute over 7 days, better than COSC.


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## tony20009

Tick Talk said:


> The Overseas line didn't gain the Geneva Seal until this latest Gen III and their inhouse caliber. The new GS standards include timing tests on the complete cased watch and can only vary 1 minute over 7 days, better than COSC.


TY


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## DickoryDoc

Tick Talk said:


> new discounted on fleabay already!!


I tried one on last week - I was offered a 10% discount without really trying for more. I had some friends with me on the way to lunch so I wasn't able to really push it much further, but I felt there might be more room even at this rather exclusive AD, perhaps more from some of the less snobby ADs.

It is a fantastic watch and really spoke to me on the wrist but I feel a 20-30% discount on the sticker price is a more realistic value IMHO.


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## mlcor

DickoryDoc said:


> I tried one on last week - I was offered a 10% discount without really trying for more. I had some friends with me on the way to lunch so I wasn't able to really push it much further, but I felt there might be more room even at this rather exclusive AD, perhaps more from some of the less snobby ADs.
> 
> It is a fantastic watch and really spoke to me on the wrist but I feel a 20-30% discount on the sticker price is a more realistic value IMHO.


The latter is the range I got to, also with a well-respected AD.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DickoryDoc

Tick Talk said:


> The Overseas line didn't gain the Geneva Seal until this latest Gen III and their inhouse caliber. The new GS standards include timing tests on the complete cased watch and can only vary 1 minute over 7 days, better than COSC.


I'm no expert, but from what I've read I'd say it's debatable whether the GS is "better" than COSC or, say, Rolex's cased watch guarantee. Really they measure different things. The GS is about the 'complete package' and the accuracy stipulations are demanding but certainly _less_ strict than COSC or Rolex - 1 minute over 7 days is an average of 8.5s deviation per day, versus a maximum of 6s/d for COSC and 2s/d for Rolex watches.

OTOH, the GS certification prohibits the use of polymers in the movement, and requires a high level of decoration and finish, even on invisible parts and plates - among other requirements. Obviously COSC and Rolex do not have these restrictions and they are almost solely concerned with the accuracy and performance of the movement/watch.

I would argue that accuracy is important - to a certain point - for a mechanical watch, but really if you are buying one _just_ for accuracy you're barking up the wrong tree and should get a quartz timer instead. The types of things that really motivate people to spend a lot more for mechanical watches - the celebration of craftsmanship, beauty and style - are therefore probably more fully embodied in a Geneva Seal award than in COSC or any other type of pure accuracy guarantee.


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## Tick Talk

DickoryDoc said:


> I'm no expert, but from what I've read I'd say it's debatable whether the GS is "better" than COSC or, say, Rolex's cased watch guarantee. Really they measure different things. The GS is about the 'complete package' and the accuracy stipulations are demanding but certainly _less_ strict than COSC or Rolex - 1 minute over 7 days is an average of 8.5s deviation per day, versus a maximum of 6s/d for COSC and 2s/d for Rolex watches.


Oops, you've misunderstood the COSC testing parameters which allows a mean daily rate variation (Mmoy) of -4 sec slow to +6 sec fast = 10 seconds spread for movements 20 mm and greater. Those less than 20 mm are allowed up to 13 sec daily variation and still be called a chronometer. Yes, Rolex has recently announced new internal standards on their new COSC-tested 3255 movements with an additional requirement of -2/+2 or 4 secs once cased BUT according to the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry this is only measured for 1 day.

Geneva Seal will not accept a slow watch whatsoever, and allows up to +60 sec over 7 days or as you've mentioned an 8.5 Mmoy. COSC does run their tests for 15 days vs GS 7 days, however, testing the cased watch is more difficult and far more relevant to real life than a movement in isolation that will then be handled and subject to alteration while being cased-up.


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## DickoryDoc

Tick Talk said:


> Oops, you've misunderstood the COSC testing parameters which allows a mean daily rate variation (Mmoy) of -4 sec slow to +6 sec fast = 10 seconds spread for movements 20 mm and greater. Those less than 20 mm are allowed up to 13 sec daily variation and still be called a chronometer. Yes, Rolex has recently announced new internal standards on their new COSC-tested 3255 movements with an additional requirement of -2/+2 or 4 secs once cased BUT according to the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry this is only measured for 1 day.
> 
> Geneva Seal will not accept a slow watch whatsoever, and allows up to +60 sec over 7 days or as you've mentioned an 8.5 Mmoy. COSC does run their tests for 15 days vs GS 7 days, however, testing the cased watch is more difficult and far more relevant to real life than a movement in isolation that will then be handled and subject to alteration while being cased-up.


I do understand the COSC parameters - at _most_ a movt can gain 7x6s = 42s over a week or lose 7x4s = 28s a week. If it gains 6s/day for 6 days and then loses 4s on the last day then it will still be within COSC specs and actually _more_ accurate over the week - as well as still being more accurate than a GS watch that performs at +60s per week. I understand the distinction between cased and non-cased movts but more watchmakers are moving to their own certifications on cased watches in recognition of this flaw. Nevertheless COSC has been the standard for decades so the difference between the tested bare movts and actual watch performance can't be that great (though I have no data on this).

As for Rolex's accuracy being tested over 1 day, I am pretty sure that this is meant to guarantee a certain level of accuracy over a period which can be extrapolated out to a larger period. What real difference is there if 100 tests are done over a day or a week? Maybe Rolex have just figured out a way to do them quicker than the others! Anyway, if the maximum tolerance is 2s per day then that is clearly for _every_ day, not just the day they test the watch, and = a max of 7x2s = 14s per week, which is a lot less than 60s.

I wasn't aware that a GS watch couldn't lose time over a day - that is certainly a positive (in more ways than one!) But technically speaking a fast clock is as inaccurate as a slow one if both are the same time away from the set standard, even though a fast watch is preferable to a slow one in the real world.

Anyway, I am not going to go any further down the rabbit hole of comparing accuracy certifications and what's in and what's out though clearly a Rolex or COSC watch operating at within or at the extreme of its tolerances will be more accurate than a Geneva Seal watch operating at the limit of its tolerances. That is not to say all Rolex or COSC watches are more accurate than all GS ones either... But my point is that this is really, well, a moot point because the GS is less about pure accuracy than it is about the quality of the overall watch as a finely decorated product (which is also very accurate). The whole idea of the Geneva Seal (and Fleurier Quality) was to create a certification that went _beyond_ just accuracy. And in summary, I'd much rather have a Poinçon de Genève watch like the Overseas than a run of the mill COSC one (or a Rolex for that matter).


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## Pun

DickoryDoc said:


> Tick Talk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, you've misunderstood the COSC testing parameters which allows a mean daily rate variation (Mmoy) of -4 sec slow to +6 sec fast = 10 seconds spread for movements 20 mm and greater. Those less than 20 mm are allowed up to 13 sec daily variation and still be called a chronometer. Yes, Rolex has recently announced new internal standards on their new COSC-tested 3255 movements with an additional requirement of -2/+2 or 4 secs once cased BUT according to the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry this is only measured for 1 day.
> 
> Geneva Seal will not accept a slow watch whatsoever, and allows up to +60 sec over 7 days or as you've mentioned an 8.5 Mmoy. COSC does run their tests for 15 days vs GS 7 days, however, testing the cased watch is more difficult and far more relevant to real life than a movement in isolation that will then be handled and subject to alteration while being cased-up.
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand the COSC parameters - at _most_ a movt can gain 7x6s = 42s over a week or lose 7x4s = 28s a week. If it gains 6s/day for 6 days and then loses 4s on the last day then it will still be within COSC specs and actually _more_ accurate over the week - as well as still being more accurate than a GS watch that performs at +60s per week. I understand the distinction between cased and non-cased movts but more watchmakers are moving to their own certifications on cased watches in recognition of this flaw. Nevertheless COSC has been the standard for decades so the difference between the tested bare movts and actual watch performance can't be that great (though I have no data on this).
> 
> As for Rolex's accuracy being tested over 1 day, I am pretty sure that this is meant to guarantee a certain level of accuracy over a period which can be extrapolated out to a larger period. What real difference is there if 100 tests are done over a day or a week? Maybe Rolex have just figured out a way to do them quicker than the others! Anyway, if the maximum tolerance is 2s per day then that is clearly for _every_ day, not just the day they test the watch, and = a max of 7x2s = 14s per week, which is a lot less than 60s.
> 
> I wasn't aware that a GS watch couldn't lose time over a day - that is certainly a positive (in more ways than one!) But technically speaking a fast clock is as inaccurate as a slow one if both are the same time away from the set standard, even though a fast watch is preferable to a slow one in the real world.
> 
> Anyway, I am not going to go any further down the rabbit hole of comparing accuracy certifications and what's in and what's out though clearly a Rolex or COSC watch operating at within or at the extreme of its tolerances will be more accurate than a Geneva Seal watch operating at the limit of its tolerances. That is not to say all Rolex or COSC watches are more accurate than all GS ones either... But my point is that this is really, well, a moot point because the GS is less about pure accuracy than it is about the quality of the overall watch as a finely decorated product (which is also very accurate). The whole idea of the Geneva Seal (and Fleurier Quality) was to create a certification that went _beyond_ just accuracy. And in summary, I'd much rather have a Poinçon de Genève watch like the Overseas than a run of the mill COSC one (or a Rolex for that matter).
Click to expand...

Yes you're right sir. I agree with your analysis and conclusions both. I hasten to add that along with a Geneva Seal watch I'd love to keep a Rolex as well just for sheer accuracy and robustness of the entire watch per se. It's amazing the amount of abuse any Rolex watch can withstand in regular daily use and be as reliable as any quality watch is supposed to be.


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## Tick Talk

DickoryDoc said:


> I'm no expert, but





> I do understand the COSC parameters





> the difference between the tested bare movts and actual watch performance can't be that great (though I have no data on this)





> As for Rolex's accuracy being tested over 1 day, I am pretty sure that this is meant to guarantee a certain level of accuracy over a period which can be extrapolated out to a larger period. What real difference is there if 100 tests are done over a day or a week? Maybe Rolex have just figured out a way to do them quicker than the others! Anyway, if the maximum tolerance is 2s per day then that is clearly for _every_ day, not just the day they test the watch, and = a max of 7x2s = 14s per week, which is a lot less than 60s





> Anyway, I am not going to go any further down the rabbit hole


Didn't mean to put you on the defensive, these discussions need to be dispassionate but accurate so myths don't get perpetuated simply because enough people repeat them. Honestly, I'm not a fan of any current accuracy standards; they are pathetic when compared with the accomplishments of Observatory watches of past centuries - pieces intended for shipboard navigation in all conditions, tested for 45 days, and required to produce results under 1 sec/day. The TimeLab organization attempted to restart Observatory Chronometer trials in 2009 and have had minimal cooperation from the Manufactures to the point where they've had to postpone the next event. Even those who tout their "chronometer" accuracy are shy about putting them to a truly independent test. COSC standards, and GS or PP Seal for that matter, are so flaccid that subscribers understandably prefer the status quo of having their cake and eating it too.

Now I must say you still don't have your conclusions right. Rolex's latest gambit has been to take their new caliber 3255 and run them through the standard uncased COSC 14 day trials. Those destined for the new Day-Date are further adjusted to achieve a maximum variation of +/- 4 sec/day and the cased watch is observed for one day to confirm. Scientifically, one observation cannot be extrapolated out endlessly, which is the very reason why tests are repeated over time and temperatures. Although I admit it is a pleasing mental exercise; I have an Observatory prize watch that if the results were extrapolated as you suggest, would be accurate to 1 sec per year! But in fact, the entire exercise of positional adjustments and observations over time is to account for the vagaries of mechanical devices that are subject to the laws of physics. Anyway, you should be excited to go down this rabbit hole. May I recommend the books Time Restored by Jon Betts and All In Good Time by George Daniels as an appropriate introduction to both the mechanical and human sides of chronometry.


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## incontrol

Great review with amazing detail. I personally really like the Overseas and love the blue dial. Many congrats and one I may have to add to my list of wants.

One item that has always bothered me is resale of VC watches. For the money, I hope this model will hold its value better than has been reported in the forums.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlcor

incontrol said:


> Great review with amazing detail. I personally really like the Overseas and love the blue dial. Many congrats and one I may have to add to my list of wants.
> 
> One item that has always bothered me is resale of VC watches. For the money, I hope this model will hold its value better than has been reported in the forums.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! Well, the first step is to get a good deal, which may not be too difficult--the discount I got would seem to indicate that they realize they've overpriced it. Of course, the easy solution is to not want to sell it later.  I know enough about my tastes at this point, and consider purchases for long enough, that I'm unlikely to want to sell later. OTOH I've never been one to flip watches regularly.

This one fits my collection perfectly, and I'm liking it more every time I wear it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DickoryDoc

Tick Talk said:


> Didn't mean to put you on the defensive, these discussions need to be dispassionate but accurate so myths don't get perpetuated simply because enough people repeat them. Honestly, I'm not a fan of any current accuracy standards; they are pathetic when compared with the accomplishments of Observatory watches of past centuries - pieces intended for shipboard navigation in all conditions, tested for 45 days, and required to produce results under 1 sec/day. The TimeLab organization attempted to restart Observatory Chronometer trials in 2009 and have had minimal cooperation from the Manufactures to the point where they've had to postpone the next event. Even those who tout their "chronometer" accuracy are shy about putting them to a truly independent test. COSC standards, and GS or PP Seal for that matter, are so flaccid that subscribers understandably prefer the status quo of having their cake and eating it too.
> 
> Now I must say you still don't have your conclusions right. Rolex's latest gambit has been to take their new caliber 3255 and run them through the standard uncased COSC 14 day trials. Those destined for the new Day-Date are further adjusted to achieve a maximum variation of +/- 4 sec/day and the cased watch is observed for one day to confirm. Scientifically, one observation cannot be extrapolated out endlessly, which is the very reason why tests are repeated over time and temperatures. Although I admit it is a pleasing mental exercise; I have an Observatory prize watch that if the results were extrapolated as you suggest, would be accurate to 1 sec per year! But in fact, the entire exercise of positional adjustments and observations over time is to account for the vagaries of mechanical devices that are subject to the laws of physics. Anyway, you should be excited to go down this rabbit hole. May I recommend the books Time Restored by Jon Betts and All In Good Time by George Daniels as an appropriate introduction to both the mechanical and human sides of chronometry.


Thanks for your reply and sorry if I sounded defensive. I actually think we agree on most points, even when it comes to 1 day or 1 week tests... obviously if you are conducting more tests over a week than a day the former is better, but still doesn't guarantee too much unless you only wear your new watch for the week (or day!) the tests are carried out. "Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance" and all that...

And yes, most if not all modern accuracy certifications are marketing-led initiatives. We are not talking about sea trials for chronometers as in the old days, though even then a trial is not the same as the real thing (just ask any race driver who has lost his race despite attaining pole position on the grid).

All I was really pointing out is that the GS is in many ways more valuable to a watch nerd than COSC, or any other pure accuracy certificate precisely because it is as much about aesthetics and craftsmanship than accuracy. Beyond a certain threshold, pure accuracy becomes a moot point for such watches!

I will also try and obtain copies of those books you listed, they sound like good holiday reading &#55357;&#56898;


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## DickoryDoc

Bhakt said:


> Yes you're right sir. I agree with your analysis and conclusions both. I hasten to add that along with a Geneva Seal watch I'd love to keep a Rolex as well just for sheer accuracy and robustness of the entire watch per se. It's amazing the amount of abuse any Rolex watch can withstand in regular daily use and be as reliable as any quality watch is supposed to be.


Certainly, I make no slight against Rolex, what they do they do very well. Horses for courses etc.


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## Tick Talk

mlcor said:


> Thanks! Well, the first step is to get a good deal, which may not be too difficult--


Sorry for the thread hijack earlier mlcor. Your hints at the great discounts now offered are certainly borne out by online retailers. Discounts over 60% on VC's priciest Metiers d'Art pieces, diminishing to 1/3 off the Gen II Overseas and 20% plus for the new Gen III. These discounts, if I assume right, must reflect the concomitant profit margins for each model line. The same retailer is discounting certain new Zenith's over 60%, Baume 75%, Nardin over 50%, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera (said with your best worst Yul Brenner accent). Time for a market correction, n'est pas?


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## mlcor

Tick Talk said:


> Sorry for the thread hijack earlier mlcor. Your hints at the great discounts now offered are certainly borne out by online retailers. Discounts over 60% on VC's priciest Metiers d'Art pieces, diminishing to 1/3 off the Gen II Overseas and 20% plus for the new Gen III. These discounts, if I assume right, must reflect the concomitant profit margins for each model line. The same retailer is discounting certain new Zenith's over 60%, Baume 75%, Nardin over 50%, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera (said with your best worst Yul Brenner accent). Time for a market correction, n'est pas?


No worries--at least it was a watch-related hijack. 

I think you're right--the luxury watch market may be starting to realize that the world is changing. The latest layoffs at Richemont would be an indicator as well, with a number of them apparently coming from watchmakers at VC.


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## DickoryDoc

Tick Talk said:


> Sorry for the thread hijack earlier mlcor. Your hints at the great discounts now offered are certainly borne out by online retailers. Discounts over 60% on VC's priciest Metiers d'Art pieces, diminishing to 1/3 off the Gen II Overseas and 20% plus for the new Gen III. These discounts, if I assume right, must reflect the concomitant profit margins for each model line. The same retailer is discounting certain new Zenith's over 60%, Baume 75%, Nardin over 50%, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera (said with your best worst Yul Brenner accent). Time for a market correction, n'est pas?


An earlier poster hinted at why VC perhaps is feeling the brunt of this maybe more so than other high end brands. Certainly to many people (including that poster obviously) the Nautilus and the Royal Oak are the standard bearers in this category of watch and their value for many comes from their iconic nature. The fact that demand still outstrips supply for certain models certainly helps keep prices high too. OTOH the Overseas doesn't have the cache simply because it is a new model. (Yes I realise it is Gen III of the same line but there is only a resemblance to earlier generations, it is not immediately recognisable as a 222 or even a previous gen OS with the Arabic numerals - unlike the current jumbo and the original or the 5711 and the original Nautilus which look like brothers not mere cousins.) That's even though the OSIII is every bit the watch the current Nautilus or RO is IMHO.

Anyway, we shouldn't be complaining if it means that VC's true competitor to those other two can be had at a more realistic price determined by the softer market!


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## Perazzi-man

To answer an earlier question , I , too , got a very good deal from my AD. I have bought 6-7 watches from them over the years and they surely act like they appreciate my return business.


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## DickoryDoc

Perazzi-man said:


> To answer an earlier question , I , too , got a very good deal from my AD. I have bought 6-7 watches from them over the years and they surely act like they appreciate my return business.


The only thing left to do now is post some pictures and give us your impressions of the watch!


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## IGotId

A few questions for the owners of this beautiful watch:

1) is it possible to stop the seconds hand?
2) how do you work the micro-adjust feature?
3) do you anticipate a lot of 'crud' collecting in between the 2 'bezel layers'? how would you keep that area clean?

Thanks in advance!


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## mlcor

IGotId said:


> A few questions for the owners of this beautiful watch:
> 
> 1) is it possible to stop the seconds hand?
> 2) how do you work the micro-adjust feature?
> 3) do you anticipate a lot of 'crud' collecting in between the 2 'bezel layers'? how would you keep that area clean?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


1) As mentioned in the thread, the seconds hand does not hack. VC has indicated that it's OK to "back hack" by putting light backwards pressure on the crown when you are adjusting the time.

2) Very simple--you simply grasp the bracelet and pull--the hidden micro link will extend (there's one on each side). To put them back, simply push back in again.

3) Difficult to say; I have a fairly large collection, so this won't be worn every day. I don't think build up will be an issue, and it should be simple enough to clean if necessary.


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## MJACLA09

Great new piece. So much better looking than the old version. Congrats.


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## Perazzi-man

Micor: What's the trick to getting the leather band to accept the hardware. Am I just a clumsy oaf or is there a "special" way I have not tried?


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## mlcor

Perazzi-man said:


> Micor: What's the trick to getting the leather band to accept the hardware. Am I just a clumsy oaf or is there a "special" way I have not tried?


Sorry, I don't know. I find the bracelet so comfortable, I haven't even taken the leather strap out of its plastic. I did disconnect the bracelet once, just to see how difficult it was to re-connect, and it was pretty effortless to get the spring loaded mechanism to snap back into place.


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## MJACLA09

I've not wanted a new watch for quite some time, especially a VC as they've never been on my radar. This blue faced piece is a stunner on strap. I think I may hint this one towards my wife as a certain Jolly old man is coming just around the corner.


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## mlcor

Perazzi-man said:


> Micor: What's the trick to getting the leather band to accept the hardware. Am I just a clumsy oaf or is there a "special" way I have not tried?


Today I put the rubber strap on. Seating the one end on the deployant was a bit fiddly, but no issue getting the band on the watch. Just keep the spring loaded piece on the strap depressed, slip it over the metal bar on the lugs, done.




























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vig2000

mlcor said:


> Today I put the rubber strap on. Seating the one end on the deployant was a bit fiddly, but no issue getting the band on the watch. Just keep the spring loaded piece on the strap depressed, slip it over the metal bar on the lugs, done.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm, the rubber strap paired with this watch doesn't look right to me. IMO, it's definitely much better paired with the bracelet, but I imagine that the rubber strap is quite comfortable. I would, however, be interested to see it on the leather strap.


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## mlcor

Vig2000 said:


> Hmm, the rubber strap paired with this watch doesn't look right to me. IMO, it's definitely much better paired with the bracelet, but I imagine that the rubber strap is quite comfortable. I would, however, be interested to see it on the leather strap.


It is comfortable. I put it on because I'm currently on crutches and don't want to scratch up the bracelet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pete B.

I have the old VCO blue and, while I like the new version, I am in no hurry to switch.


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## vkalia

mlcor said:


> Today I put the rubber strap on. Seating the one end on the deployant was a bit fiddly, but no issue getting the band on the watch. Just keep the spring loaded piece on the strap depressed, slip it over the metal bar on the lugs, done.


The rubber strap looks lovely. I ended up picking a 15400 over this, but i think this is going to be my next purchase.


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## mlcor

vkalia said:


> The rubber strap looks lovely. I ended up picking a 15400 over this, but i think this is going to be my next purchase.


Can't go wrong with either one. I couldn't justify having both, too similar to each other and to other sporty watches I own (e.g. Breguet Marine, Yachtmaster).


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## vkalia

mlcor said:


> Can't go wrong with either one. I couldn't justify having both, too similar to each other and to other sporty watches I own (e.g. Breguet Marine, Yachtmaster).


If I go this route, I'd end up with a Marine, a 15400 and the VC as well, but for me, these style of watches go perfectly with my lifestyle and it is nice to have them in different dial colors, with varying degrees of dressiness. So i can justify them.

Plus, I think the VC on rubber achieves an elegant-casual look that the AP or the Breguet simply cannot.

Is gonna be a while, though. Perhaps mid/late 2017.


----------



## schrop

vkalia said:


> Is gonna be a while, though. Perhaps mid/late 2017.


It'll take you that long to get to a dealer.


----------



## Chasen KM

Well written, thanks for the review


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

schrop said:


> It'll take you that long to get to a dealer.


Lol, there is that. I dont know if the remoteness is a blessing or a curse.


----------



## Zain A

Excellent review of a stunning piece! Congratulations!


----------



## TJMike

As others have said, a wonderful review. I saw the watch in person last week and I was blown away. As I was in a rush I did not try it on. I am tempted to buy it down the track. Do you know the lug-to-lug length?


----------



## mlcor

TJMike said:


> As others have said, a wonderful review. I saw the watch in person last week and I was blown away. As I was in a rush I did not try it on. I am tempted to buy it down the track. Do you know the lug-to-lug length?


Thanks. I'm afraid I don't know the lug to lug length, and am not at home, so no way to measure it. I would estimate 48mm, but that's just a guess from looking at it (I happen to be wearing it today). If you look at my wrist shots, I have a 7.25" wrist, fairly flat, around 54mm wide--I can comfortably wear lug-to-lug up to 52mm, the VC seems less than that by a decent margin, hence my guess.


----------



## TJMike

Thanks for that. I contacted VC; I will post their response if they get back to me.

I'm tempted to buy something like the Overseas now rather than a Breguet Classique. The Overseas would get more wrist time. However, I already have a Grand Seiko GMT; that is my sporty watch. And if I only have one chance to afford a high end watch, it has to be a dress watch.


----------



## m0c021

mlcor said:


> Thanks. I'm afraid I don't know the lug to lug length, and am not at home, so no way to measure it. I would estimate 48mm, but that's just a guess from looking at it (I happen to be wearing it today). If you look at my wrist shots, I have a 7.25" wrist, fairly flat, around 54mm wide--I can comfortably wear lug-to-lug up to 52mm, the VC seems less than that by a decent margin, hence my guess.


Happen to either own or tried on Royal Oak before? Interested to hear how it wears compared to either the 39 or 41 Royal Oak. Thanks in advance!


----------



## vkalia

m0c021 said:


> Happen to either own or tried on Royal Oak before? Interested to hear how it wears compared to either the 39 or 41 Royal Oak. Thanks in advance!


I have a 41mm RO and have tried out the Overseas - they wear quite similarly in size. I have the feeling the Overseas looks a little bigger: the bezel of the RO stands out a little more and so visually stands out from the case a little more; by comparison, the bezel of the Overseas looks more integrated with the case and so the overall case looks bigger on the wrist. But this is really nitpicking: they really do wear very close.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> m0c021 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happen to either own or tried on Royal Oak before? Interested to hear how it wears compared to either the 39 or 41 Royal Oak. Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 41mm RO and have tried out the Overseas - they wear quite similarly in size. I have the feeling the Overseas looks a little bigger: the bezel of the RO stands out a little more and so visually stands out from the case a little more; by comparison, the bezel of the Overseas looks more integrated with the case and so the overall case looks bigger on the wrist. But this is really nitpicking: they really do wear very close.
Click to expand...

I love VC watches, but they do not make them for men with small wrists. It looks like there will be no VC in my collection


----------



## mlcor

vkalia said:


> I have a 41mm RO and have tried out the Overseas - they wear quite similarly in size. I have the feeling the Overseas looks a little bigger: the bezel of the RO stands out a little more and so visually stands out from the case a little more; by comparison, the bezel of the Overseas looks more integrated with the case and so the overall case looks bigger on the wrist. But this is really nitpicking: they really do wear very close.


Agreed. I've tried the 41mm RO on several times, and a purchase is inevitable. I think, because it is a bit thinner, the RO wears a tiny bit smaller, but the difference is negligible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## m0c021

vkalia said:


> I have a 41mm RO and have tried out the Overseas - they wear quite similarly in size. I have the feeling the Overseas looks a little bigger: the bezel of the RO stands out a little more and so visually stands out from the case a little more; by comparison, the bezel of the Overseas looks more integrated with the case and so the overall case looks bigger on the wrist. But this is really nitpicking: they really do wear very close.


Thanks for that response. Crossing the Overseas off my list then. I have the 39mm Royal Oak and think it is the perfect size. The 41mm Royal Oak looked a bit too big for me. I have always liked the Overseas design and almost pulled the trigger on the 2nd gen before the current gen was released. Seems like now a days, PP is the only one of the trinity making more conservative sized sport watches (as in still in production and I don't count RO Jumbo 15202 since it's a two hander and obviously meant to be a bit more dressy).


----------



## Igor01

m0c021 said:


> Thanks for that response. Crossing the Overseas off my list then. I have the 39mm Royal Oak and think it is the perfect size. The 41mm Royal Oak looked a bit too big for me. I have always liked the Overseas design and almost pulled the trigger on the 2nd gen before the current gen was released. Seems like now a days, PP is the only one of the trinity making more conservative sized sport watches (as in still in production and I don't count RO Jumbo 15202 since it's a two hander and obviously meant to be a bit more dressy).


I wouldn't rule out the second generation Overseas until you've had a chance to try it on your wrist. In my experience, the second gen Overseas definitely looks more reasonably sized on my skinny 6.75" wrist than than a 15400. Even though the case of the VC is 1mm larger in dimension, the smaller dial on the Overseas, less blingy bezel and more importantly - smaller, less "splayed out" lugs make the watch appear smaller to my eyes. I haven't seen the third gen Overseas on the metal yet, and not sure how it looks size-wise compared to the previous model, but the new one is thicker which probably doesn't help in making it appear more reasonably-sized. On the other hand, the case lines are less angular and dramatic, which may smooth out the size visually.


----------



## m0c021

I tried the dual time overseas 2nd gen and that thing looked enormous. Haven't been able to find the 3 hander to try but to be honest I am extremely satisfied with my 15300 so am overseas would be redundant in my collection anyways. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Igor01

m0c021 said:


> I tried the dual time overseas 2nd gen and that thing looked enormous. Haven't been able to find the 3 hander to try but to be honest I am extremely satisfied with my 15300 so am overseas would be redundant in my collection anyways.


I agree with you on that - I never wear the Overseas chrono with the 14500 in the collection (but they are both white/silver dialed). Perhaps, if either of these two were a blue or a black dial version, I'd probably wear both.


----------



## vkalia

Question for all of you with an Overseas: how suitable is it as an everday watch? More specifically, is it a scratch magnet? Does it visually look too shiny (ala the Breguet Marine and the AP RO)? I've tried it out in a store, but find it hard to judge this unless i see the watch in natural light, and with all the plastic removed.

I love my AP but it isnt something i can see myself wearing daily. Same with the Breguet. OTOH, if the VC is suitable as an everyday watch, i might pick it up soon. As early as next weekend, actually.


----------



## Roger Lococco

In my experience, the Overseas is great for everyday use. Definitely not too shiny. W.r.t. scratches however, it's not too bad but not as scratch resistant as my Rolex GMT, as a point of comparison. I also banged one of my OS watches on a door in the first month or so. Swung my arm around and caught essentially the straight edge of a door knob at full force. That left a pretty bad scratch and about killed me. For better or worse, the watch had a service issue for which VC also did a polish - and the polish took out all the issues.


----------



## mlcor

vkalia said:


> Question for all of you with an Overseas: how suitable is it as an everday watch? More specifically, is it a scratch magnet? Does it visually look too shiny (ala the Breguet Marine and the AP RO)? I've tried it out in a store, but find it hard to judge this unless i see the watch in natural light, and with all the plastic removed.
> 
> I love my AP but it isnt something i can see myself wearing daily. Same with the Breguet. OTOH, if the VC is suitable as an everyday watch, i might pick it up soon. As early as next weekend, actually.


I don't think I can really answer that, since I rarely wear the same watch more than once every ten days or so. What I can say is I haven't seen any significant scratches since I bought it last September, and it gets worn regularly. OTOH, I don't exercise with it on, or subject it to abuse.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

Thanks for that, Roger and micor: to clarify, I am not looking for Sinn-like toughness, as i dont plan to exercise with or subject it to abuse: just something one level down from being obviously shiny and excessively polished - something i can take with me on a 7-10 day holiday, along with a beater, and which would go everywhere from a Michelin-star restaurant to all day on the streets with a camera to walking around in shorts/sandals/polo while at a tropical beach destination, etc.

Based on what you guys describe and the photos i see, it seems that this would be an appropriate fit.


----------



## Igor01

I wore a Deep Stream chrono (the second generation Overseas with the Titanium bezel) on the rubber strap almost daily for two years and except for a few very tiny scratches (mostly on the delployant buckle) and very slight change in the rubber finish in some high wear places the watch looked like new. I wasn't particularly gentle with it either. The Titanium bezel hardly showed any marks at all, the brushed steel lugs showed a few small scuffs but those were essentially invisible from a foot or more. The all steel models certainly should be a bit more prone to picking up marks but the mostly curved lines and far less shiny finish than that found on Royal Oak should make it fairly scratch-, scuff- and ding resistant. My 15400 scratches and scuffs when I look at it the wrong way, but it's all hard angles, straight lines and sharp edges.

In terms of the bling factor - the second gen Overseas is a lot more descreet than a RO, and is a lot less noticeable, even when worn on the bracelet. There are less high polish reflective surfaces, those that are there are usually curved minimizing the surface area reflecting light in the same direction, and the finish is just much more subtle. I haven't seen the latest generation Overseas in real life yet so I can't comment on it. 

From my personal experience - Overseas is a more practical everyday watch than the 15400 for example, because it's more under-the-radar and keeps its original finish much better. It also looks great on rubber and leather which gives you great versatility (dressy, watersports, general low visibility when desired) and for those who care - it's a lot less common than some other brands. If you already have a RO, an Overseas with a different dial colour or a specific set of complications should be different enough to warrant having both in the collection.


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## vkalia

^^^ Thank you, that was very helpful and precisely the information i wanted to get.

Another nail in the decision....


----------



## schrop

I'll bite.

I find very minor scratching. Attached are two photos with a harsh flash intended to reveal a worst-case look. In natural light any scratching really does not rise to salience. I do find smudging on the face to be a problem from time to time but a quick wipe removes all and the face is still absolutely perfect. I have worn the watch every day except for two or three days since Dec 29th. My lifestyle is not too hard - just teaching and being out and about.

Taking it to caribbean soon, with the bracelet and the rubber, and I plan to swim with it. Will report. My verdict is it is a fantastic watch. Perfect. Glad my wrists are 6.875" and no smaller.
















vkalia said:


> Question for all of you with an Overseas: how suitable is it as an everday watch? More specifically, is it a scratch magnet? Does it visually look too shiny (ala the Breguet Marine and the AP RO)? I've tried it out in a store, but find it hard to judge this unless i see the watch in natural light, and with all the plastic removed.
> 
> I love my AP but it isnt something i can see myself wearing daily. Same with the Breguet. OTOH, if the VC is suitable as an everyday watch, i might pick it up soon. As early as next weekend, actually.


----------



## schrop

mlcor said:


> a purchase is inevitable


Funny.

An AP purchase is probably inevitable for me over time (to match my wife's) but I think the 37 mm. 
I find the VC wears a littler closer for my wrists than the 41 mm.


----------



## schrop

vkalia said:


> just something one level down from being obviously shiny and excessively polished - something i can take with me on a 7-10 day holiday, along with a beater, and which would go everywhere from a Michelin-star restaurant to all day on the streets with a camera to walking around in shorts/sandals/polo while at a tropical beach destination, etc.


Precisely my intentions vis a vis travel (caribbean and western and central/eastern europe) and to not be as obvious as a RO while teaching.


----------



## schrop

So vkalia will it be blue, brown or silver?


----------



## mlcor

schrop said:


> Funny.
> 
> An AP purchase is probably inevitable for me over time (to match my wife's) but I think the 37 mm.
> I find the VC wears a littler closer for my wrists than the 41 mm.


Whereas for my wrist, at 7.25", the 41mm is ideal. Guess that's why they make different sizes. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vkalia

schrop said:


> So vkalia will it be blue, brown or silver?


Dammit. Your post was yet another push towards the inevitable.

Blue. Can never have enough blue. Plus, i have a white-dialled Breguet and black-dialled AP, so this completes the trifecta.

I am going to force myself to wait till atleast April, though. Hopefully, info on the Panerai 682 pricing and availability will be out then - and that one is rapidly overhauling the Blancpain as the diver in my core collection (ironic, that i am a dive pro and i dont have a higher-end diver). And it would be appropriate if Mike gets his first, as his posts have pushed me over the brink (this thread got me there).


----------



## vkalia

mlcor said:


> Whereas for my wrist, at 7.25", the 41mm is ideal. Guess that's why they make different sizes.


Interestingly, on my 6.75" wrist, the 15400 in black looked a lot better than the 15202 (atleast for the look i wanted - which i have heard described here by someone as 'casual chic'). The 15400 in white was over-powering, though. Same with the Overseas - the blue looks great, the white looks too large. The Breguet silver is perfect.

But that's on a darker skin tone than most people here - those of you with lighter skin will probably have less of a contrast with white/silver dials, and they may not look as large.


----------



## mlcor

vkalia said:


> Interestingly, on my 6.75" wrist, the 15400 in black looked a lot better than the 15202 (atleast for the look i wanted - which i have heard described here by someone as 'casual chic'). The 15400 in white was over-powering, though. Same with the Overseas - the blue looks great, the white looks too large. The Breguet silver is perfect.
> 
> But that's on a darker skin tone than most people here - those of you with lighter skin will probably have less of a contrast with white/silver dials, and they may not look as large.


I think white dialed watches, all else being equal, look larger than black simply because they are brighter. They also tend to call more attention to themselves for the same reason.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Dammit. Your post was yet another push towards the inevitable.
> 
> Blue. Can never have enough blue. Plus, i have a white-dialled Breguet and black-dialled AP, so this completes the trifecta.
> 
> I am going to force myself to wait till atleast April, though. Hopefully, info on the Panerai 682 pricing and availability will be out then - and that one is rapidly overhauling the Blancpain as the diver in my core collection (ironic, that i am a dive pro and i dont have a higher-end diver). And it would be appropriate if Mike gets his first, as his posts have pushed me over the brink (this thread got me there).


I am glad to have played my part  Waiting until April you say; no stopping by the VC AD in KL this weekend...


----------



## vkalia

TJMike said:


> I am glad to have played my part  Waiting until April you say; no stopping by the VC AD in KL this weekend...


Now now, lets not be hasty here. I just said i wouldnt buy the VC. I didnt say anything about not going by just to have a look.


----------



## TJMike

vkalia said:


> Now now, lets not be hasty here. I just said i wouldnt buy the VC. I didnt say anything about not going by just to have a look.


Hahahaha. Let us see how strong your willpower is.


----------



## georges zaslavsky

Nice watch but I prefer the older version. Enjoy your watch in good health


----------



## lxxrr

Does anyone happen to have a pic next to a RO 39 or 40mm Rolex Sports model? I'm trying to gauge size. Thanks


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## mlcor

lxxrr said:


> Does anyone happen to have a pic next to a RO 39 or 40mm Rolex Sports model? I'm trying to gauge size. Thanks


Maybe this will help. Hulk, 15400, VC.


----------



## lxxrr

double post


----------



## lxxrr

mlcor said:


> Maybe this will help. Hulk, 15400, VC.
> 
> View attachment 12355561


Thanks! I sold a 15400 because it was too large for me (mostly due to the end-links and curvature of the bracelet). I picked up a 15300 which I found perfectly sized. It looks like this one may be borderline out of reach. Eek....Any other thoughts on how it wears opposed to these two?


----------



## mlcor

lxxrr said:


> Thanks! I sold a 15400 because it was too large for me (mostly due to the end-links and curvature of the bracelet). I picked up a 15300 which I found perfectly sized. It looks like this one may be borderline out of reach. Eek....Any other thoughts on how it wears opposed to these two?


I would say it wears in between--larger than the Hulk, a little smaller than the APRO. My wrist is 7.25", and pretty flat. I can comfortably wear lug-to-lug up to 54mm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m0c021

Any chance you have tried the 2nd gen overseas and can comment on size compared to that? The 2nd gen was too big for me but 15300 is perfect size for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mlcor

m0c021 said:


> Any chance you have tried the 2nd gen overseas and can comment on size compared to that? The 2nd gen was too big for me but 15300 is perfect size for me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Sorry, I haven't.


----------



## PJ S

m0c021 said:


> Any chance you have tried the 2nd gen overseas and can comment on size compared to that? The 2nd gen was too big for me but 15300 is perfect size for me.


If the 15300 is perfect, the 47040 will not work for you, IMO.
It's 42mm, and wears its size, plus the bracelet is thicker, but still lovely nonetheless.
If you're willing to give it a punt, make sure the reseller has a solid returns policy if you decide over a few days that it's not for you.
Obviously you'll not want to wear it out and make sure you protect it whilst on - after a couple of hours, you'll probably know by then if it's fine or just a bit too big.


----------



## m0c021

PJ S said:


> If the 15300 is perfect, the 47040 will not work for you, IMO.
> It's 42mm, and wears its size, plus the bracelet is thicker, but still lovely nonetheless.
> If you're willing to give it a punt, make sure the reseller has a solid returns policy if you decide over a few days that it's not for you.
> Obviously you'll not want to wear it out and make sure you protect it whilst on - after a couple of hours, you'll probably know by then if it's fine or just a bit too big.


Yes I already know the 47040 is too large. I was asking in regards to the 4500v. My aqua terra is 41.5mm and fits me just fine. The 4500v is 41mm but I wasn't sure if the lug to lug is shorter than its predecessor. I can never seem to be able to see it in person as all my nearby AD can't get one or already sold it. Tourneau wants way too much deposit to see one, although it is refundable. I would never buy from them anyways because their pricing is just ridiculous.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## mlcor

m0c021 said:


> Yes I already know the 47040 is too large. I was asking in regards to the 4500v. My aqua terra is 41.5mm and fits me just fine. The 4500v is 41mm but I wasn't sure if the lug to lug is shorter than its predecessor. I can never seem to be able to see it in person as all my nearby AD can't get one or already sold it. Tourneau wants way too much deposit to see one, although it is refundable. I would never buy from them anyways because their pricing is just ridiculous.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't think the lug to lug is very large--certainly not like the 15400. If I remember tonight I can take a look, but I'm having a very long day, so I can't promise I'll remember.


----------



## PJ S

m0c021 said:


> Yes I already know the 47040 is too large. I was asking in regards to the 4500v. My aqua terra is 41.5mm and fits me just fine. The 4500v is 41mm but I wasn't sure if the lug to lug is shorter than its predecessor. I can never seem to be able to see it in person as all my nearby AD can't get one or already sold it. Tourneau wants way too much deposit to see one, although it is refundable. I would never buy from them anyways because their pricing is just ridiculous.


Sorry, misread your post and thought you were thinking about getting a 47040.
I don't believe the 4500V is any shorter on the lug length, but it's not something that gets talked about much, for any watch.


----------



## mlcor

m0c021 said:


> Yes I already know the 47040 is too large. I was asking in regards to the 4500v. My aqua terra is 41.5mm and fits me just fine. The 4500v is 41mm but I wasn't sure if the lug to lug is shorter than its predecessor. I can never seem to be able to see it in person as all my nearby AD can't get one or already sold it. Tourneau wants way too much deposit to see one, although it is refundable. I would never buy from them anyways because their pricing is just ridiculous.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't have calipers, but using a ruler I'd say lug-to-lug is around 47-48mm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## m0c021

mlcor said:


> I don't have calipers, but using a ruler I'd say lug-to-lug is around 47-48mm.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just measured my 41.5mm aqua terra and that has a lug to lug of 48.5mm. This might mean that the 4500v might fit after all. I will measure my 15300 when I get home. Always good to have another grail set hah.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## m0c021

For anyone of interest, the lug to lug on the 15300 is about 49mm. Longer than I thought.


----------



## Swissaccountant

I have not yet seen this limited edition shown here ... so here you go


----------



## Swissaccountant

View attachment 14349609


I have not yet seen this limited edition shown here ... so here you go


----------



## Alysandir

Swissaccountant said:


> View attachment 14349609
> 
> 
> I have not yet seen this limited edition shown here ... so here you go


From what I've been given to understand, there are only 30 of the three-handers and 30 of the chronographs in that silver/blue scheme, all of which were to be sold out of their home boutique in Switzerland (although I'm told the New York boutique managed to score a couple each). I have to imagine they've all been claimed though.

Regards,
Aysandir


----------



## yuji

Alysandir said:


> From what I've been given to understand, there are only 30 of the three-handers and 30 of the chronographs in that silver/blue scheme, all of which were to be sold out of their home boutique in Switzerland (although I'm told the New York boutique managed to score a couple each). I have to imagine they've all been claimed though.
> 
> Regards,
> Aysandir


Woah cool, I had not even heard of these. Super legit :O


----------



## Swissaccountant

Mine is numbered XX/38, so you are close


----------



## Vig2000

Swissaccountant said:


> View attachment 14349609
> 
> 
> I have not yet seen this limited edition shown here ... so here you go


Decent enough I suppose, but the production version is far more aesthetically appealing, strictly speaking for myself of course.


----------



## ajbutler13

I really hate WUS. Just yesterday (or maybe 2 days ago), I posted in the Public Forum that I'm perfectly happy with mid-level stuff (Omega, GS, Zenith) and have no desire to creep up the high-end ladder. And now this thread...with that beautiful blue Overseas.

I hate this place.


----------



## xherion

Yesterday i tried on black 3-hander and blue dual-time pieces. Both are astoundingly nice.

I love the 2mm per side bracelet micro adjustment as well as the strap quick change mechanism, and the bracelet/bezel are much nicer than pictures can convey.

I still think APRO is a tiny bit nicer though, cause of the tapisserie dial. But these overseas are really growing on me.


----------



## xherion

ajbutler13 said:


> I really hate WUS. Just yesterday (or maybe 2 days ago), I posted in the Public Forum that I'm perfectly happy with mid-level stuff (Omega, GS, Zenith) and have no desire to creep up the high-end ladder. And now this thread...with that beautiful blue Overseas.
> 
> I hate this place.


Yeah no kidding, I was also contented with my sub, santos, and Tudor GMT among my lower tier pieces, but now I am clamoring on AP and OS


----------



## mlcor

xherion said:


> Yesterday i tried on black 3-hander and blue dual-time pieces. Both are astoundingly nice.
> 
> I love the 2mm per side bracelet micro adjustment as well as the strap quick change mechanism, and the bracelet/bezel are much nicer than pictures can convey.
> 
> I still think APRO is a tiny bit nicer though, cause of the tapisserie dial. But these overseas are really growing on me.


Well, everyone is different, but all I can say is that when the opportunity came up to acquire two watches that I have wanted for a long time, one of which is very difficult to obtain, I needed to part with a couple of pieces. My APRO left, but the Overseas stayed, and I can't see it ever leaving.


----------



## xherion

mlcor said:


> Well, everyone is different, but all I can say is that when the opportunity came up to acquire two watches that I have wanted for a long time, one of which is very difficult to obtain, I needed to part with a couple of pieces. My APRO left, but the Overseas stayed, and I can't see it ever leaving.


Oh you sold the RO?
If I may ask, which aspects of overseas do you like better than RO?

To me the 2x2mm micro adjustment and quick strap change are very good value proposals for overseas against RO


----------



## IGotId

I had a blue dial VCO, I'm hoping they decide to release a titanium version as well


----------



## Hamstur

xherion said:


> Oh you sold the RO?
> If I may ask, which aspects of overseas do you like better than RO?
> 
> To me the 2x2mm micro adjustment and quick strap change are very good value proposals for overseas against RO


Pretty sure there is zero "value" proposal in 15-20K watches! 😁

I narrowed down to VCOS 3rd gen and AP 15300 and chose VCOS because it looked more cooler to me. Despite being less desired and the 15300 having gone up $4-5K in value since, I still feel I made the right decision "for me."

But I will say all things equal, I must have an on the fly adjustable bracelet. My wrists fluctuate too much through the day.


----------



## mlcor

xherion said:


> Oh you sold the RO?
> If I may ask, which aspects of overseas do you like better than RO?
> 
> To me the 2x2mm micro adjustment and quick strap change are very good value proposals for overseas against RO


Yes, the comfort of the bracelet was a big part of it. The interchangeable straps less so-I've worn the rubber strap occasionally (it's excellent), but have never worn the leather one, I like the bracelet too much and have other dressier choices. To me, the VC overall is just more comfortable, less prone to scratches and less blingy. Also it's still the most beautiful blue dial I've seen.


----------



## yuji

Were you able to walk in to the dealer and grab one or did you have to wait? I know last year it was impossible to find one at any dealer in the world.


----------



## xherion

Black dial ones can be grabbed at AD/boutique, the blue and silver ones have waitlist.


----------



## natesen

Depends where you are. I visited some dealers a couple weeks ago in New York City and there were three blue ones available amongst the various dealers. And there has been basically at least 1 every time I have ever popped into one in Manhattan. 

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## ajbutler13

I recently spoke to an AD about a blue one and was told that it would be a 4 month wait.


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## TedPhatana

Honestly all, I am really tired of this steel sport watch craze.

I think I was over it a while now.

I am not sure how long this market will support the bubble.


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## PJ S

^
It’ll support it for as long as there’s surplus money out there to enable those who fear on missing out, and with Patek, when the current Nautilus line is discontinued for the next version.


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## TedPhatana

Yes. The all mighty Patek, I think I heard the other day that they will not increase steel watch production because they don't want to be known as the next AP.

Are the Aquanauts now also selling above retail? I really don't follow Patek, so.



PJ S said:


> ^
> It'll support it for as long as there's surplus money out there to enable those who fear on missing out, and with Patek, when the current Nautilus line is discontinued for the next version.


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## PJ S

^
Yes, they’re selling well over MSRP too.


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## TedPhatana

What a world! LOL

M


PJ S said:


> ^
> Yes, they're selling well over MSRP too.


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## ROA

Greetings! New member here. Thanks @mlcor for this review. Am also an owner of the blue VCO simple date and loving it! I think the blue is astonishing and the finish is impressive. My first VC and no regrets...


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## ahhhderrr

xherion said:


> Yesterday i tried on black 3-hander and blue dual-time pieces. Both are astoundingly nice.


So which would you choose?
Simple date, nice clean layout. 
Or dual time , neat complication and interesting design variation from the typical 3-handed for only a little more money?


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## xherion

ahhhderrr said:


> So which would you choose?
> Simple date, nice clean layout.
> Or dual time , neat complication and interesting design variation from the typical 3-handed for only a little more money?


In the end i bought silver 15400 lol.

But for Overseas, i would get blue dial, time only. The blue lacquer is very nice, and the dual time subdials, nice as it is, kinda obstruct the vastness of the blue lacquer dial


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## R_rated

xherion said:


> In the end i bought silver 15400 lol.
> 
> But for Overseas, i would get blue dial, time only. The blue lacquer is very nice, and the dual time subdials, nice as it is, kinda obstruct the vastness of the blue lacquer dial


I just bought one ands LOVE it. I went brown/bronze. It's rare and specific to this watch. Blue is also amazing but can be found on any number of other watches. This brown/bronze cannot. Blue will never be "uncool" but it won't be as en vogue down the road as it is in the current trend. Subjectively I think time only is the way to go for this piece. Chrono is second. Just my opinion but I think time only suits this watch best.


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## phaphaphooey

mlcor said:


> The movement is VC's new 5100, the base movement used for all of the new Overseas models. It beats at a modern 28,800 vph, and has a 60 hour power reserve, using twin barrels for constant torque. The movement has the Geneva hallmark, and sports a gorgeous 22 carat gold rotor with a compass motif.
> 
> View attachment 9706306
> View attachment 9706314
> 
> 
> As you would expect, the finishing is excellent, and continues the theme of smooth polished surfaces and textured surfaces transitioning throughout:
> 
> View attachment 9706322
> View attachment 9706330
> View attachment 9706338
> View attachment 9706354
> View attachment 9706362
> 
> 
> Note the polishing on the top side edges of even the smallest parts, transitioning to unpolished below. The rotor is also spectacular in its use of contrasting textures:
> 
> View attachment 9706370
> 
> 
> Almost forgot--the movement is rated to 150m, and also is anti-magnetic, a good trick with a display back accomplished with an iron ring inside the case (still doesn't feel particularly heavier than my other steel bracelet watches).
> 
> Also, note the little tab on the inside of the bracelet in the top two pictures--this is a quick release mechanism to change straps/bracelet. You simply pull down on the tab with a fingernail, and the bracelet or strap releases. To re-install, simply pull down on the tab and slip it back into place, then release the tab. I did it to take one of the photos, and it was quite simple. Proprietary, to be sure, but given that they supply three choices, I think it's excellent.
> 
> Wrist shots to follow...


Lovely shots


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