# POLL: Would such a NVCh-30 / 350 Project be interesting to pursue?



## Miguel Fazendas

_(There's an actual poll associated to this thread: Tapatalk users won't be able to see it unless in the browser view, which can be accessed by pressing the three dots on the upper right corner of the screen.  Please do vote!)_
*__*

Hello everyone!

Following the interactions in a previous thread about an NVCh-30 re-issue, I'm starting this thread trying to gauge if there would be enough interest to pursue a NVCh-30 / 350 project.

I understand it's an odd timing, as there's another similar project just published today too.

I feel, though, that this approach is not exactly the same as the other project and it is worth exploring.
This would be a Vostok, assembled by Vostok, with Meranom's help (and, hopefully, with a competitive final cost, two versions and a more strict design mantra.)

&#8230;And, of course, I have been developing the design for a long while now: it would be a shame if I didn't end up sharing it (even if I know it's not the nicest thing to the other project's team.)

















(These are not necessarily the final designs: they're just to give some substance to the discussion.)

The idea -much like with the Compressor project- would be to approach the watch design as an "as close as possible to the original" exercise.

So, the principles for this project would be:

1. Keep as close to the original as possible and change as little as possible;
2. Be truthful (updating the jewels count and the country of manufacture, for instance);
3. Make it so that there's no ambiguity that this watch is not an original one;
4. Make it with the quality and precision contemporary techniques allow for.

*__*

I know it seems simple enough ("we could just reproduce every part as the original and the end result would be true to it") but it's always a bit more complex: compromises will inevitably have to be made.

As you know, for instance, the case would be manufactured by a supplier and not by Vostok itself (at the moment I believe they are only manufacturing their classic cases). To guarantee WR ratings the case will have to be manufactured using the supplier's technologies and techniques. That, for sure, will imply forgoing an acrylic crystal, for instance.

A sapphire crystal would probably be the way to go but, unless it has a boxed shape (that would increase the total cost of the project by $50 or more, as we learned with the Compressor project) it will require a different positioning of the hands so that they clear the crystal (and, in consequence, a repositioning of the dial, the movement, the crown and the caseback).

It's clear how even just a crystal change can have such cascading effects into a watch's design&#8230; A different movement may have different geometric needs, a different case construction may require different proportions, different parts in different positions, etc..

That's why it's much more straightforward to do a "contemporary reinterpretation" than a closer re-issue: it's difficult to massage a different architecture to produce the same design!

But we like difficult things, no worries. 

*__*

THE GOOD NEWS

The good news is that I was able to directly measure and scan all the original parts for the watch (case, dial, bezel, crystal, hands, crown, etc.) as they were readily available in my collection. The only two elements that I wasn't able to measure were the NCVh-30 specific crystal (but we know it has an extra 1.4 mm over the 350's to its thickness) and the NCVh-30 specific caseback (which we also know has an extra 0.4 mm to its thickness).

Avoiding a box sapphire crystal and going for the more cost-effective double-domed one (with exactly the same profile as the original acrylic crystal) I managed to get clearance for the hands (not a lot, but clearance) by moving the dial back just two tenths of mm. Space for the crystal gasket was also found under the bezel, having no visual impact. With a 2409, the crown would be perfectly centered on the lateral brushed band. The exterior case dimensions and design would be exactly the same as the original.

I'm sure a few tweaks would still be in order as we move towards production, but it seems we'd be able to preserve the original design.


















Two versions of the project could maybe be possible: a 350 homage -well deserving, the first Amphibia ever- and a NVCh-30 homage. They'd share most of the components, with the exception of dial, hands and lugs. A thicker crystal for the NVCh-30 could also be a possibility: we'd need to see the feasibility of it with Meranom at a later stage.

THE BAD NEWS

As you can see, compromises will happen: no acrylic crystal; small positional tweak to the dial; not sure if a 30 atm WR rating would be possible.

Some may, understandably, have concerns too that these new watches can be used to make "counterfeit originals" by mix-matching vintage and new parts: as happened with the Compressor, though, due to the changes required to make it happen today (even if they look the same), it's most likely that the parts will not really be interchangeable between new and vintage watches at all.

*__*

So, summing it all up, this is what we're trying to know:


Will this project still be interesting to do with a sapphire crystal?
Are tweaks like moving the dial back 0.2 mm ok to make it happen?
If we can't produce a 30 atm WR would it still be interesting to do it with 20 atm?


















I already reached out to Dmitry Buyalov to see if Meranom would be interested in managing it, what would be possible, in what conditions and with what cost. I'll update everyone as soon as I hear from them.

If it seems feasible, we could start the process then and evaluate a few options for the final design.

Looking forward to your views on this (and I'm very sorry if I offended anyone with this publication).

Please vote!
Cheers!

*__*

Edit 2020 12 04:

Meranom is on board with the following preliminary data:

400 units (300 for us);
approximately 300 usd cost (payment on watch shipment);
two versions are possible.

*__*

Edit 2020 12 05:

Meranom believes that a 30 atm WR is a realistic possibility with a thicker crystal and caseback (which would be perfectly in tune with how it was done in the original ).

*__*

Edit 2020 12 07:
Delivery towards late 2021.

*__*

Edit 2020 12 15: General Specs
Edit 2020 12 17: NVCh-30 Hands
Edit 2020 12 21: NVCh-30 Lume
Edit 2020 12 23: NVCh-30 Strap
Edit 2020 12 31: Images
Edit 2021 01 07: Type 350 Band

Current Specs:

*NVCh-30








*

. WR: 30 atm (tentatively);
. Crystal: AR coated Sapphire (3.5 mm);
. Dial: Black, matte white graphics, Swiss Super-LumiNova "Light Old Radium" luminescent paint;
. Hands: gilded paddle hands with red seconds hand;
. Case: Stainless Steel (38.5mm diameter without crown; 13.25mm thickness);
. Crown: Stainless Steel;
. Bezel: Stainless Steel with engraved black graphics;
. Caseback: Stainless Steel (1.9mm);
. Lugs: Wire Lugs;
. Movement: Vostok 2409a;
. Band: Nylon Single-pass printed 22 mm "sand" strap.

*350








*

. WR: 20 atm;
. Crystal: AR coated Sapphire (2.1 mm);
. Dial: Sunburst Black, matte white graphics, Swiss Super-LumiNova "Old Radium" luminescent paint;
. Hands: gilded sword hands with small lume dot red seconds hand;
. Case: Stainless Steel (38.5mm diameter without crown; 11.45mm thickness);
. Crown: Stainless Steel;
. Bezel: Stainless Steel with engraved black graphics;
. Caseback: Stainless Steel (1.5mm);
. Lugs: Swing Lugs;
. Movement: Vostok 2409a;
. Band: 18 mm "Nasa Komfit style" stainless band.

*__*

Options discussed:

Tension ring finish (2020 12 12):









Seconds hand finish (2020 12 17):









Lume specs - C3 / Light Old Radium (2020 12 21):









Plain / Printed Strap (2020 12 23):


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## GoodNamesWereTaken

Will this project still be interesting to do with a sapphire crystal?
-If at least 20 ATM of water resistance can be achieved, then absolutely. Will the crystal have AR coating as well?

Are tweaks like moving the dial back 0.2 mm ok to make it happen?
-As long as it doesn't upset operations. Also, its seems to me that a lot of new Vostoks are using a plastic movement holder. Is there a way to switch to a metal one (like the original) for this project and accommodate the changes?

If we can't produce a 30 atm WR would it still be interesting to do it with 20 atm?
-I'd still be interested.

Two potentially competing projects? This will be very interesting.


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## mariomart

I'm in  

I'd be happy with either version, however my preference would be for the 200m version, as the reason I fell in love with the 350 was the beautiful curve of the crystal and bezel.


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## mangoonastick

Looks amazing at least!


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## Miguel Fazendas

mariomart said:


> I'm in
> 
> I'd be happy with either version, however my preference would be for the 200m version, as the reason I fell in love with the 350 was the beautiful curve of the crystal and bezel.


Yes, it's a more elegant design


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## Miguel Fazendas

mangoonastick said:


> Looks amazing at least!


Thanks!


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## Miguel Fazendas

GoodNamesWereTaken said:


> Will this project still be interesting to do with a sapphire crystal?
> -If at least 20 ATM of water resistance can be achieved, then absolutely. Will the crystal have AR coating as well?
> 
> Are tweaks like moving the dial back 0.2 mm ok to make it happen?
> -As long as it doesn't upset operations. Also, its seems to me that a lot of new Vostoks are using a plastic movement holder. Is there a way to switch to a metal one (like the original) for this project and accommodate the changes?
> 
> If we can't produce a 30 atm WR would it still be interesting to do it with 20 atm?
> -I'd still be interested.
> 
> Two potentially competing projects? This will be very interesting.


Yes, I think 20 atm would be achievable  and AR coating would be mandatory if we want to make it look closer to acrylic, of course (at least on the interior face).

About the movement holder, it would be a custom one so yes, it can be metal.


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## leastonh

I'd be *very* interested in one of these, especially with 200m WR. Please count me in and thank you Miguel for following up on your thread from last month


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## Miguel Fazendas

leastonh said:


> I'd be *very* interested in one of these, especially with 200m WR. Please count me in and thank you Miguel for following up on your thread from last month


Cheers!


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## palletwheel

While I understand we always want to minimize cost, it seems not using a box sapphire crystal, for 50 USD extra, makes for a lot of complexity and change that would be unnecessary otherwise. We may be asking too much for the manufacturing tolerances and end up with a failed project. So it kind of comes across as a penny wise thing in the end. If we're going to do these things, that reqiuire so much work, we should just go for it and do it really nice.


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## lorroberty

I am a little confused by two projects regarding the same watch..


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## Kotsov

I'm in.


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## oldfox

As far as I'm aware Vostok couple times refused/Meranom to produce such project due to technical reasons: impossibility of producing such case, problems manufacturing of such plexiglass and it's installation for providing 300 meters proof.


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## thewatchadude

Given that this ought to be a modern recreation of an old watch with modern techniques, I'd suggest to make the NVCH-30 recreation an automatic one. Automatic is the modern standard for diving watches. Also a clicking bezel (and ideally unidirectional) would be needed. Too bad to create a 300m watch that would be useless for diving (and I know that noone actually uses a diving watch when diving nowadays, but still).


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## lorroberty

I articulate my position a little more, regarding the two projects:

- I would love to get a watch which reminds as close as possible the old one
- The external aspect is a lot more important than technical characteristics.

as a result some other points


200 or 300 metres of WR does not mean much to me (they aren't certified divers in any case)
plexiglass or domed sapphire? conceptually plexiglass but if there are issues with it then I am fine with sapphire
automatic/manual movement: does not change much for me. Automatic makes more sense (also being a diver better to have screwed crown which isn't great to wind..). Russian movement obviously. Reliable and cheap.
finally, I think we should have only one project, especially if they share the SAME objective


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## Miguel Fazendas

palletwheel said:


> While I understand we always want to minimize cost, it seems not using a box sapphire crystal, for 50 USD extra, makes for a lot of complexity and change that would be unnecessary otherwise. We may be asking too much for the manufacturing tolerances and end up with a failed project. So it kind of comes across as a penny wise thing in the end. If we're going to do these things, that reqiuire so much work, we should just go for it and do it really nice.


It's still possible! Right now, the double dome only had the effect of moving the dial 0.2mm, allowing for a 2.5 mm thick crystal and maintaining the nice original 350 profile, but as we evolve the design the sweet spot may change, of course.


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## Miguel Fazendas

lorroberty said:


> I am a little confused by two projects regarding the same watch..


Yes, it's very unfortunate... We were both silently developing this idea without imagining the re would be a similar project at the same time. The routes are different, though.


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## Miguel Fazendas

oldfox said:


> As far as I'm aware Vostok couple times refused/Meranom to produce such project due to technical reasons: impossibility of producing such case, problems manufacturing of such plexiglass and it's installation for providing 300 meters proof.


Hello oldfox: I'm so sorry to have created this situation... it's very unfortunate. There are a few differences is our project, though, even if the starting point is the same. Meranom is on board: I'll update the thread in a bit.


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## Miguel Fazendas

thewatchadude said:


> Given that this ought to be a modern recreation of an old watch with modern techniques, I'd suggest to make the NVCH-30 recreation an automatic one. Automatic is the modern standard for diving watches. Also a clicking bezel (and ideally unidirectional) would be needed. Too bad to create a 300m watch that would be useless for diving (and I know that noone actually uses a diving watch when diving nowadays, but still).


Hi!
I think the impulse to modernize it is legitimate (as happened with the previous re-issue, and a bit with old fox's project) but the motivation for this version is to be as close as possible to the original.
To be honest, this all started with a mod I made from a 350 case and I did include an automatic there. But, due to the diameter of the case, the watch became too tall and quite disproportionate.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Small update guys:

Meranom is on board.

They feel they would need to produce 400 units (300 for us + 100 for them), the cost would be around 300 usd (payed on shipment of the watch) and it would be possible to have two versions.

What are your thoughts?

(I’ll update the first post with this info.)


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## mariomart

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Small update guys:
> 
> Meranom is on board.
> 
> They feel they would need to produce 400 units (300 for us + 100 for them), the cost would be around 300 usd (payed on shipment of the watch) and it would be possible to have two versions.
> 
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> (I'll update the first post with this info.)


I'm in 

Sign me up for a low number


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## lorroberty

will it become the 2021 WUS project?!

number 37 maybe...


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## Miguel Fazendas

lorroberty said:


> will it become the 2021 WUS project?!
> 
> number 37 maybe...


It would be nice! Let's see how it goes


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## AlekseiIud

Looks great!
put me in for both versions with 84 and 59 number if possible
hope this time it will be as much close to original as it possible unlike the first reissue


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## calote

I am in. 

Amazing work Miguel. Obrigadinho!


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## elsoldemayo

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 😍


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## starjay

Also in


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## pump 19

Many thanks for taking on another project, especially this design. I am in for one. I know it's way too early but number 54 would be my choice, if a choice becomes an option...


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## Kornienko

I am in.


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## Miguel Fazendas

AlekseiIud said:


> Looks great!
> put me in for both versions with 84 and 59 number if possible
> hope this time it will be as much close to original as it possible unlike the first reissue


That's the motivation behind it!


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## Miguel Fazendas

calote said:


> I am in.
> 
> Amazing work Miguel. Obrigadinho!





elsoldemayo said:


> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN





starjay said:


> Also in





pump 19 said:


> Many thanks for taking on another project, especially this design. I am in for one, likely 200m. I know it's way too early but number 54 would be my choice, if a choice becomes an option...





Kornienko said:


> I am in.


Cheers guys!


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## starjay

Put me down for a number 79 if the number is an option.


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## Fergfour

Do people really think someone is starting a list of who wants what number at this point in the game? Gimme a break


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## Barakuda

Я в деле
Номер "088" пожалуйста


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## Борисыч

Я в деле.Номер 008 пожалуйста


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## max888

Number 007 please!


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## Fergfour

Again, is someone actually keeping records of numbers here? If not what's the point of calling out numbers?


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## Борисыч

Fergfour said:


> Again, is someone actually keeping records of numbers here? If not what's the point of calling out numbers?


So as not to be late and not fly past the ticket office-)))


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## Miguel Fazendas

Борисыч said:


> So as not to be late and not fly past the ticket office-)))


No harm in that


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## tokareva

Put me down for one please, #25 or #50. I hope the printing can be adjusted to look more like the original , slightly more rounded corners on numbers and markers with a thicker looking lume.


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## Kotsov

3 and 4 please.


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## AardnoldArrdvark

Number 42 please


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## detroie

025 for me pls


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## Fergfour

I'm interested and the pics look great. Obviously there will be a certain level of interest here but if Meranom needs 300 surely there's a better way to see if we have that many? COnfusing with two "competing" projects as well.


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## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Put me down for one please, #25 or #50. I hope the printing can be adjusted to look more like the original , slightly more rounded corners on numbers and markers with a thicker looking lume.


The guiding print under the lume is not rounded: I followed it as that is what we'll need to provide. (These graphics were directly scanned from a dial.)

It's the way that the lume was applied that changed it: a good hand made it straighter, a looser hand rounder. 










Our lume will be raised, so it should round the shapes a bit  (I couldn't really model that)

But if we get to the stage of making the project oficial, we'll have the opportunity to finetune it or deviate a bit if pertinent.


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## Rk1972

I’d be interested in following along. Might be if for a watch but it would depend more on how it develops and cost. I was all in for the Compressor because Russian watches are cool and I love compressor cases. This one to me has more of a dress watch vibe. 20 ATM would be fine. That’s a beautiful looking design, can’t imaging there would be any trouble moving 400 units if it comes in under 350.00 USD.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> I'm interested and the pics look great. Obviously there will be a certain level of interest here but if Meranom needs 300 surely there's a better way to see if we have that many? COnfusing with two "competing" projects as well.


A poll like this is the usual practice to have a first grasp of the potencial interest. The better way would be to have a registration list, of course, but that will only happen if/when it becomes an official project.

It was unfortunate indeed that both projects were unknowingly being developed at the same time. Oldfox -who has been an absolute gentleman- and I have been talking and explored if there was an opportunity to merge them, but (even if with the same starting point) the two projects seem to have too different approaches and objectives and we couldn't see how to reconcile them. I'm sure each will have its space and its public, tough.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Rk1972 said:


> I'd be interested in following along. Might be if for a watch but it would depend more on how it develops and cost. I was all in for the Compressor because Russian watches are cool and I love compressor cases. This one to me has more of a dress watch vibe. 20 ATM would be fine. That's a beautiful looking design, can't imaging there would be any trouble moving 400 units if it comes in under 350.00 USD.


The goal is to be under that value


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## Rk1972

Miguel Fazendas said:


> A poll like this is the usual practice to have a first grasp of the potencial interest. The better way would be to have a registration list, of course, but that will only happen if/when it becomes an official project.
> 
> It was unfortunate indeed that both projects were unknowingly being developed at the same time. Oldfox -who has been an absolute gentleman- and I have been talking and explored if there was an opportunity to merge them, but (even if with the same starting point) the two projects seem to have too different approaches and objectives and we couldn't see how to reconcile them. I'm sure each will have its space and its public, tough.


What's the other competing project?


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## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> A poll like this is the usual practice to have a first grasp of the potencial interest. The better way would be to have a registration list, of course, but that will only happen if/when it becomes an official project.
> 
> It was unfortunate indeed that both projects were unknowingly being developed at the same time. Oldfox -who has been an absolute gentleman- and I have been talking and explored if there was an opportunity to merge them, but (even if with the same starting point) the two projects seem to have too different approaches and objectives and we couldn't see how to reconcile them. I'm sure each will have its space and its public, tough.


I didn't see the poll at first my bad. I can't seem to vote on it in any case. 
It's possible the competing projects might cannaballize members since some will have to choose one project over the other.


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## Rk1972

Miguel Fazendas said:


> The goal is to be under that value


After looking at those pics more I'd be in for one if it comes in under 300.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Rk1972 said:


> What's the other competing project?


You can find Oldfox's project here:









Project of NVCH reissue


(A note from the moderating team: this is not a Watchuseek authorized project.) UPDATED on 24 January 2022 Good afternoon, ward fellows, who suffer from "watch disorder". Those, who want to join - here is the member list and form to be filled in order to join. Meranom's NVCH as I can assume...




www.watchuseek.com


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## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> I didn't see the poll at first my bad. I can't seem to vote on it in any case.
> It's possible the competing projects might cannaballize members since some will have to choose one project over the other.


Not even in a browser window?

(Yes, unfortunately canniballization can happen, though I feel the two projects cater to two slightly different audiences.)


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## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Not even in a browser window?
> 
> (Yes, unfortunately canniballization can happen, though I feel the two projects cater to two slightly different audiences.)


I'm accessing WUS from a laptop at the moment. Tried 2 different browsers. When I click the 3 dots in the upper right there is no option for "browser window".


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## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> I'm accessing WUS from a laptop at the moment. Tried 2 different browsers. When I click the 3 dots in the upper right there is no option for "browser window".


That was for those using Tapatalk... If you're already on a browser and can't see the poll I don't know what it may be... Strange. (Or is it that you can see it but just can't vote?)


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## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> That was for those using Tapatalk... If you're already on a browser and can't see the poll I don't know what it may be... Strange. (Or is it that you can see it but just can't vote?)


I can see the poll but can't vote. Now that I think, maybe I already did vote. I can't remember lol. Usually I can see poll results on polls but whatever.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> I can see the poll but can't vote.


That's strange. Could it be a problem with your account?


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## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> That's strange. Could it be a problem with your account?


I've voted in other polls recently. Must be that I already voted which would make sense.


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## mariomart

Number 002 or 009 please (  I'll play the game as well  )


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## Miguel Fazendas

mariomart said:


> Number 002 or 009 please (  I'll play the game as well  )


Onwards and upwards


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## tokareva

Can it have a red second hand? I like to see it move and a gold one is nearly invisible because it's so thin. Plus red just looks better to me.


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## Oldheritage

I'm in, I always liked the look of these a lot. Plus, I could always use another Vostok


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## haejuk

I am interested. I have no problem paying the extra for a boxed sapphire crystal either. It re-creates the original acrylic crystal much better than the simple domes.


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## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Can it have a red second hand? I like to see it move and a gold one is nearly invisible because it's so thin. Plus red just looks better to me.
> View attachment 15581434


If we get the project moving we'll explore options like that, for sure


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## sonics

Interested, too 

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk


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## palletwheel

As you'd figure, I'm in, so long as the result really ends up like a reissue of the original. And I really hope for that reason for a modest amount more everyone gets behind using a box crystal.


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## Sayan

I am interested


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## mariomart

I've always wondered what the cost comparison would be to instead of going with Sapphire, having a crystal manufacturer produce acrylic crystals to the same spec as the original Type 350 crystal. The upside to recreating the original crystal would be the follow-up market in selling the crystals on their own to the many hundreds of collectors that have been looking for 350 crystals. Just a thought.


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## Sayan

Miguel,

I know you want this NVCH 30 project to look as close as possible to the original one, I am OK with that. But i really want that special NATO strap which you have on your one-off Vostok , even as additional option.


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## Chascomm

Just to clear up any confusion for all those posting "Please sign me up" or "Please reserve number ## for me", let me make clear that this is *not* yet a Watchuseek-approved project.

It is a poll to determine the interest for a specific proposal. If the proposer thinks that there is enough interest, they will submit the project for approval to be officially hosted by Watchuseek. This will be assessed by the site administrator in consultation with the moderating team.

And this is where I ask you all to temper your enthusiasm, because the fact that another forum site has just launched a project on an almost identical theme, which has been announced on this forum with the expectation of substantial take-up from our members, somewhat reduces the prospect of approval of the project proposed in this thread.

Please understand the reason for such caution: we have had a couple of projects on this forum fail to complete in recent years, likewise on other Watchuseek forums, and we currently have two more projects currently ongoing and not yet paid for, and there are five ongoing non-Watchuseek projects enjoying ongoing discussion on this forum. Against all of that, this project proposal is going to need stronger-than-usual assurance of success in order to be approved.


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## lollo1979

Chascomm said:


> Just to clear up any confusion for all those posting "Please sign me up" or "Please reserve number ## for me", let me make clear that this is *not* yet a Watchuseek-approved project.
> 
> It is a poll to determine the interest for a specific proposal. If the proposer thinks that there is enough interest, they will submit the project for approval to be officially hosted by Watchuseek. This will be assessed by the site administrator in consultation with the moderating team.
> 
> And this is where I ask you all to temper your enthusiasm, because the fact that another forum site has just launched a project on an almost identical theme, which has been announced on this forum with the expectation of substantial take-up from our members, somewhat reduces the prospect of approval of the project proposed in this thread.
> 
> Please understand the reason for such caution: we have had a couple of projects on this forum fail to complete in recent years, likewise on other Watchuseek forums, and we currently have two more projects currently ongoing and not yet paid for, and there are five ongoing non-Watchuseek projects enjoying ongoing discussion on this forum. Against all of that, this project proposal is going to need stronger-than-usual assurance of success in order to be approved.


Thanks... 
So it means that basically the other reissue project is going to be supported/recognized by WUS?

sorry but there is a bit of confusion in my mind.... in 2 days i have seen a post about a reissue project and then this post for another reissue.

Inviato dal mio SM-A505FN utilizzando Tapatalk


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## lorroberty

Miguel Fazendas said:


> A poll like this is the usual practice to have a first grasp of the potencial interest. The better way would be to have a registration list, of course, but that will only happen if/when it becomes an official project.
> 
> It was unfortunate indeed that both projects were unknowingly being developed at the same time. Oldfox -who has been an absolute gentleman- and I have been talking and explored if there was an opportunity to merge them, but (even if with the same starting point) the two projects seem to have too different approaches and objectives and we couldn't see how to reconcile them. I'm sure each will have its space and its public, tough.


very good answer Miguel.
Maybe I am speaking just for myself but as a member who doesn't have any motive to favor one over the other I would love to have a "list" of the differences in the 2 projects so I can decide early on where to put my money and interest


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

Personally I'm happy to back both projects.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

lorroberty said:


> very good answer Miguel.
> Maybe I am speaking just for myself but as a member who doesn't have any motive to favor one over the other I would love to have a "list" of the differences in the 2 projects so I can decide early on where to put my money and interest


You're right, it may be useful to clarify the situation of having two similar projects going at the time (also so that we can move on from it and focus on the project instead).

Our project, as you know, is pretty straightforward: it's a strict reissue, will be a Vostok out of the Vostok factory, as identical to the original as possible and, even if open to everyone, it will be an initiative of our forum.

Oldfox's project is a Watch.ru project that has the same starting point (an admiration for the 350/NVCh that wasn't fully fulfilled by the previous reissue) but takes it in a different direction.

It will not be a Vostok: it won't be branded as such and will be manufactured independently.

They are considering a larger case together with a regular one and a different bezel architecture. On the movement side, they are exploring a wide range, from manual and automatic movements, movements with calendar complication, to Swiss movements. They are also exploring different design elements including a very cool Aurora connection -that I believe will be the name on the dial (and, of course, a different price point and payment process).

It will be inspired by the 350 but it has a quite wide range of possibilities beyond strictly following the original and it will be its own thing.

I believe both projects are catering to so different motivations and following so distinct routes that they'll produce two very different watches (watches that will, probably, appeal to different people).

I genuinely believe there's space for both ?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

palletwheel said:


> As you'd figure, I'm in, so long as the result really ends up like a reissue of the original. And I really hope for that reason for a modest amount more everyone gets behind using a box crystal.


It would be nice. Just take in consideration that, as usual, things are never as simple as possible.  But if we move forward we'll explore all possibilities.

I say that because I'm providing space for a 2.5mm thickness on the crystal to be sure we can reach at least 20 atm. With a box crystal, if we want to keep that profile, it will need to be thinner. We'd need to check if that would be ok later. 

(It would have an image closer to the acrylic, and wouldn't ask for the 0.2mm displacement on the dial -both great things- but, on the other hand, the positioning of the crown seems to ask for that tweak too and, because the walls of the crystal are hidden by the bezel, I'm not really sure we'll notice any difference between both crystal solutions.)


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

mariomart said:


> I've always wondered what the cost comparison would be to instead of going with Sapphire, having a crystal manufacturer produce acrylic crystals to the same spec as the original Type 350 crystal. The upside to recreating the original crystal would be the follow-up market in selling the crystals on their own to the many hundreds of collectors that have been looking for 350 crystals. Just a thought.


That's a great idea!

It wouldn't serve the project directly, because the case supplier won't want to make it (they seem to don't have the knowledge/patents/control -I don't know wich one of them- of the acryclic flex to guarantee WR ratings, so they only offer the possibility of sapphire or mineral glass).

It would, though, be great both for our classic 350s (frequently with the wrong crystal, and a good correct one is not that easy to find) and it could be fitted to our project after the fact by those who want to.


----------



## SerpentesEye

Interested to see


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Sayan said:


> Miguel,
> 
> I know you want this NVCH 30 project to look as close as possible to the original one, I am OK with that. But i really want that special NATO strap which you have on your one-off Vostok , even as additional option.
> 
> View attachment 15581924


I'm sure something like that can be explored 👍


----------



## Bostok

I'm interested and even more interested after looking at the other forum similar project as alternative.
Thinking at the ongoing Compressor project and extrapolating I think there would be sufficient conceptual, organisation and technical expertise differences to make a WUS NVCH project viable as presented by the author to whom I thank for the initiative.
But pragmatic and strong support should be gathered to make the things move in the right direction, so let's do it!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Just a small update from Meranom: they believe a 30 atm WR rating is a realistic possibility to explore with a thicker crystal and caseback (which is a nice parallel with the original process). 

(Updated the first post with that info.)


----------



## DaniLonge

lorroberty said:


> I articulate my position a little more, regarding the two projects:
> 
> - I would love to get a watch which reminds as close as possible the old one
> - The external aspect is a lot more important than technical characteristics.
> 
> as a result some other points
> 
> 
> 200 or 300 metres of WR does not mean much to me (they aren't certified divers in any case)
> plexiglass or domed sapphire? conceptually plexiglass but if there are issues with it then I am fine with sapphire
> automatic/manual movement: does not change much for me. Automatic makes more sense (also being a diver better to have screwed crown which isn't great to wind..). Russian movement obviously. Reliable and cheap.
> finally, I think we should have only one project, especially if they share the SAME objective


Ciao come posso iscrivermi a questo bel progetto? Devo compilare qualcosa?


----------



## DaniLonge

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Just a small update from Meranom: they believe a 30 atm WR rating is a realistic possibility to explore with a thicker crystal and caseback (which is a nice parallel with the original process).
> 
> (Updated the first post with that info.)


Miguel 
How can I join the project to have one of this beautiful watch?
Thanks


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

DaniLonge said:


> Ciao come posso iscrivermi a questo bel progetto? Devo compilare qualcosa?





DaniLonge said:


> Miguel
> How can I join the project to have one of this beautiful watch?
> Thanks


Hi guys: there isn't a registration form yet. Just keep following the thread!  (And vote in the poll!)


----------



## Zany4

I would be interested pending the final price.


----------



## Zany4

That special strap looks like a 75 euro Erika's MN with special printing. With the special marking it's probably closer to 100 euro. They are expensive but great quality compared to other similar types.



Sayan said:


> Miguel,
> 
> I know you want this NVCH 30 project to look as close as possible to the original one, I am OK with that. But i really want that special NATO strap which you have on your one-off Vostok , even as additional option.
> 
> View attachment 15581924


----------



## Seikogi

Hi Miguel,

Amazing work! I have a few questions and some wild, silly ideas.

What does produced by Meranom mean? Will the case be made in the Vostok factory, some other russian factory or China?

Would you consider a Miyota 9039? Movement is well under 100USD afaik and the 90XX family is the second best thing on the market, apart from the 2892, regardless of what swissophils say.
Its at 3.9mm only 0.2mm taller than the 2409 movement. (My NTH is 11.5mm at 30bar WR iwith a 9015 inside)

Russia is generally pretty good with machining titanium, if cost diff wouldn't be much it could also be nice. (I had a dozen russian knives with Ti handles)

I personally don't care much for the 300m if we have to sacrifice much height for it. Since the watch will most likely have a single loop through strap it will get even taller anyways..

Since we are already going away from the Amphibia design philosophy by adding sapphire instead of acrylic, how would you (and everyone else) feel about making the case a little more exciting. I was thinking about adding a stepped milling pattern on the case, like this espresso maker. Like, make the widest "ring" at 1/4th of the barrell and go smaller diameter from there. So in sum I'd make the widest ring like 1mm wider than barrell shape as is. Let me know if this sounds extremely ugly


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Zany4 said:


> That special strap looks like a 75 euro Erika's MN with special printing. With the special marking it's probably closer to 100 euro. They are expensive but great quality compared to other similar types.


It is  I'm sure we'd find a better compromise for the project, though.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Seikogi said:


> Hi Miguel,
> 
> Amazing work! I have a few questions and some wild, silly ideas.
> 
> What does produced by Meranom mean? Will the case be made in the Vostok factory, some other russian factory or China?
> 
> Would you consider a Miyota 9039? Movement is well under 100USD afaik and the 90XX family is the second best thing on the market, apart from the 2892, regardless of what swissophils say.
> Its at 3.9mm only 0.2mm taller than the 2409 movement. (My NTH is 11.5mm at 30bar WR iwith a 9015 inside)
> 
> Russia is generally pretty good with machining titanium, if cost diff wouldn't be much it could also be nice. (I had a dozen russian knives with Ti handles)
> 
> I personally don't care much for the 300m if we have to sacrifice much height for it. Since the watch will most likely have a single loop through strap it will get even taller anyways..
> 
> Since we are already going away from the Amphibia design philosophy by adding sapphire instead of acrylic, how would you (and everyone else) feel about making the case a little more exciting. I was thinking about adding a stepped milling pattern on the case, like this espresso maker. Like, make the widest "ring" at 1/4th of the barrell and go smaller diameter from there. So in sum I'd make the widest ring like 1mm wider than barrell shape as is. Let me know if this sounds extremely ugly
> View attachment 15582808


Hi Seikogi,
Thank you for the kind words!

Case-wise, I think Vostok currently is making only their classic cases: all other cases are sourced from a supplier.

As with both their watches and our project, components made in house and outsourced are reunited and assembled at Vostok's factory. Our watch will fully be a Vostok watch, with a Vostok serial number, passport, warranty, etc..

Having said that, Vostok itself is setup for the production of large quantities of watches (I think they are assembling about 4 million watches per year): they are not very nimble to accommodate smaller projects and special editions. That's were Meranom enters: they are used to this smaller scale of operations (like these projects, their SEs and their occasional work for Vostok). They know all the suppliers fit for the project's needs, know what components will need to be order for the project, were to source them and how to communicate them for production, and have the agility needed to deal with these smaller numbers and to distribute the watches directly to each buyer.

About your ideas, I can see their merit! But unfortunately the guideline of this project is precisely to follow the original "to a t". That's the void we're trying to fill. (And, if we opened those doors, the range of possibilities would be endless: the project could simply never get out of the discussion stage, as so many before.)

Having said that, Watch.ru's project by Oldfox (you can find a link to it in an earlier post) is exploring some of those ideas: maybe you'd like to check it out!


----------



## Viktor Man

I’m in! 👍🏻


----------



## palletwheel

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It would be nice. Just take in consideration that, as usual, things are never as simple as possible.  But if we move forward we'll explore all possibilities.
> 
> I say that because I'm providing space for a 2.5mm thickness on the crystal to be sure we can reach at least 20 atm. With a box crystal, if we want to keep that profile, it will need to be thinner. We'd need to check if that would be ok later.
> 
> (It would have an image closer to the acrylic, and wouldn't ask for the 0.2mm displacement on the dial -both great things- but, on the other hand, the positioning of the crown seems to ask for that tweak too and, because the walls of the crystal are hidden by the bezel, I'm not really sure we'll notice any difference between both crystal solutions.)


Actually I'd be really behind the suggestion of making the acrylic crystals. That's such a win-win for everyone. But I see that as a tougher pull than a box sapphire. Assuming we are going to use a Vostok movement, I'd vote for a 2414A manual (can we get it without date?) which being close to the original 2209 might fix the crown position issue too? I know people are thinking automatics, but really, how many of us will be wearing this every day for months on end? Given that, you're going to need to wind anyway, so why not have some fun and revisit the past all the way? I mean that's why a lot of us collect vintage.


----------



## Seikogi

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hi Seikogi,
> Thank you for the kind words!
> 
> ...


Tks for the detailed explanation.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

palletwheel said:


> Actually I'd be really behind the suggestion of making the acrylic crystals. That's such a win-win for everyone. But I see that as a tougher pull than a box sapphire. Assuming we are going to use a Vostok movement, I'd vote for a 2414A manual (can we get it without date?) which being close to the original 2209 might fix the crown position issue too? I know people are thinking automatics, but really, how many of us will be wearing this every day for months on end? Given that, you're going to need to wind anyway, so why not have some fun and revisit the past all the way? I mean that's why a lot of us collect vintage.


Yes, the acrylic would be the dream solution! Unfortunately it will be a closed door (like we learned with the Compressor project). It would need to be figured out outside the realm of the project.

(No problem with the crown: it's perfectly centered on the lateral brushed band of the case with the 2409  which is a 2414 without date )

Functionally, an automatic would be nice, but it would kill the watch proportions. (It was done before with the previous reissue, partly accounting for its odd design.)


----------



## lorroberty

DaniLonge said:


> Ciao come posso iscrivermi a questo bel progetto? Devo compilare qualcosa?


ciao, ti ho risposto in privato!


----------



## lorroberty

Miguel Fazendas said:


> You're right, it may be useful to clarify the situation of having two similar projects going at the time (also so that we can move on from it and focus on the project instead).
> 
> Our project, as you know, is pretty straightforward: it's a strict reissue, will be a Vostok out of the Vostok factory, as identical to the original as possible and, even if open to everyone, it will be an initiative of our forum.
> 
> Oldfox's project is a Watch.ru project that has the same starting point (an admiration for the 350/NVCh that wasn't fully fulfilled by the previous reissue) but takes it in a different direction.
> 
> It will not be a Vostok: it won't be branded as such and will be manufactured independently.
> 
> They are considering a larger case together with a regular one and a different bezel architecture. On the movement side, they are exploring a wide range, from manual and automatic movements, movements with calendar complication, to Swiss movements. They are also exploring different design elements including a very cool Aurora connection -that I believe will be the name on the dial (and, of course, a different price point and payment process).
> 
> It will be inspired by the 350 but it has a quite wide range of possibilities beyond strictly following the original and it will be its own thing.
> 
> I believe both projects are catering to so different motivations and following so distinct routes that they'll produce two very different watches (watches that will, probably, appeal to different people).
> 
> I genuinely believe there's space for both ?


great! I think you can pin this answer somewhere because I can see even from other comments that some people are still confused!


----------



## palletwheel

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Yes, the acrylic would be the dream solution! Unfortunately it will be a closed door (like we learned with the Compressor project). It would need to be figured out outside the real of the project.
> 
> (No problem with the crown: it's perfectly centered on the lateral brushed band of the case with the 2409  which is a 2414 without date )
> 
> Functionally, an automatic would be nice, but it would kill the watch proportions. (It was done before with the previous reissue, partly accounting for its odd design.)


That's great, I wasn't sure from the posts if this were going manual wind. Then this really makes for a nice demarcation between this project and Oldfoxes. If you join this project you get delivered at the end, modulo whatever modest identifying marks needed to ensure its not mistaken as vintage, a true reissued Type 350, as exact as possible, manual wind and all. If you join Oldfoxes you get a homage, with whatever modifications agreed upon.

I would just reiterate, let's make sure we don't compromise for modest amounts of money. I deeply respect and appreciate that there are people on this forum for whom 50 USD means something, and I would agree it does. But if we can justify each and every dollar spent on this project in a way that makes it meaningfully better, and not in a superfluous way, let us please do it.

I think once the Compressor project comes to what I expect will be a successful conclusion, the powers that be will be amenable. Assuming that's still something like late spring, then this makes for a nice 2021 forum project. There should be enough people in this forum and watch.ru who would want as authentic as possible a Vostok made Type 350 reissue.


----------



## lorroberty

palletwheel said:


> That's great, I wasn't sure from the posts if this were going manual wind. Then this really makes for a nice demarcation between this project and Oldfoxes. If you join this project you get delivered at the end, modulo whatever modest identifying marks needed to ensure its not mistaken as vintage, a true reissued Type 350, as exact as possible, manual wind and all. If you join Oldfoxes you get a homage, with whatever modifications agreed upon.
> 
> I would just reiterate, let's make sure we don't compromise for modest amounts of money. I deeply respect and appreciate that there are people on this forum for whom 50 USD means something, and I would agree it does. But if we can justify each and every dollar spent on this project in a way that makes it meaningfully better, and not in a superfluous way, let us please do it.
> 
> I think once the Compressor project comes to what I expect will be a successful conclusion, the powers that be will be amenable. Assuming that's still something like late spring, then this makes for a nice 2021 forum project. There should be enough people in this forum and watch.ru who would want as authentic as possible a Vostok made Type 350 reissue.


I was favouring the acrylic just because I thought was closer to the original, personally not at all an issue regarding the cost.

But it seems that sapphire will at the end get me a closer look to the original. So I am in for sapphire.
Similarly if automatic will mess proportion I am in for manual.

easy to please


----------



## ale9191

I’m in


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Just a reminder to everyone who's in to please vote in the poll (that's the way, at this stage, to support the project towards it becoming official)


----------



## hoja_roja

Hi Miguel,

again fantastic work, didnt have time now to browse all the pages but for sure I´m IN, moito obrigado!


----------



## protasov77

I am in! Number 77 please!


----------



## Seikogi

as someone who has never had a 350, how do the fixed lugs work?

is it possible to adjust the angle or is the angle fixed?

how did you plan the construction, 2 screws that screw inside the case, a large screw that threads into the lug or a pinned construction?

I am probably in, the project is growing on me


----------



## 0elcid0

I want to join to the project, I'll wait for the form.
Tank you.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Seikogi said:


> as someone who has never had a 350, how do the fixed lugs work?
> 
> is it possible to adjust the angle or is the angle fixed?
> 
> how did you plan the construction, 2 screws that screw inside the case, a large screw that threads into the lug or a pinned construction?
> 
> I am probably in, the project is growing on me


They swing freely, with the angle depending on your wrist geometry and the type of strap used  they are held in place by springbars inside the case.


----------



## oleg1

Miguel Fazendas said:


> They swing freely, with the angle depending on your wrist geometry and the type of strap used
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are held in place by springbars inside the case.


There are some problems on NATO straps on rather thin hand - they can stay vertically. In this case 2-pieces strap will be better - if we can set it on the watch


----------



## jimzilla

I am on board Miguel, After your stellar performance as project manager on the"Vostok Compressor Project"
I will follow you through the gates of watch reissue hell if you are leading the way sir.
I am with mario as my preference would be for the 200m version as well.
PUT ME DOWN FOR WATCH # 100 - THANKS


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel don't take this the wrong way. I'm in but I want to see the compressors on my wrist before I get too carried away with this.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Kotsov said:


> Miguel don't take this the wrong way. I'm in but I want to see the compressors on my wrist before I get too carried away with this.


We'd be looking at shipping of this project by late 2021 (I should update the first post with that info), so we have time 

(Not great for our anxious side but good for the piggy bank provisioning.)


----------



## Kirill Sergueev

I am in. I hope would be no click bezel. It annoys me in NVCH-30 reincarnation and it has a play.


----------



## Danilao

I’m in :-D


----------



## Blitzkrieg

I want to join to the project, I'll wait for the form.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Blitzkrieg said:


> I want to join to the project, I'll wait for the form.


Thanks!  In the meantime, please leave your intention in the poll too!


----------



## thewatchadude

I voted no in the poll. I don't understand the need for a reissue when there are so many 350 around on ebay at very affordable price. I'd probably be more keen to oldfox project, which seems a bit comparable in essence to the twin Kompressors project a couple of years ago: a modern version of a nice vintage watch.

I'm in for the Sadko and Compressor project (Miguel's) however, as they give me access to a reissue of a watch I couldn't afford otherwise. This is not the case with a 350.

That said opinions change with time...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

thewatchadude said:


> I voted no in the poll. I don't understand the need for a reissue when there are so many 350 around on ebay at very affordable price. I'd probably be more keen to oldfox project, which seems a bit comparable in essence to the twin Kompressors project a couple of years ago: a modern version of a nice vintage watch.
> 
> I'm in for the Sadko and Compressor project (Miguel's) however, as they give me access to a reissue of a watch I couldn't afford otherwise. This is not the case with a 350.
> 
> That said opinions change with time...


I understand your point about the 350 (though they're not really common or cheap in decent condition, and notably the original crowns and bezels are systematically either absent or in pretty bad shape).

Can't say that I understand it about the NVCh-30, though, which is the main motor of the project. They are the opposite of common or affordable!

It is true, though, that our aim isn't really to produce a modern version of the watch (in a sense, it's a reaction to the last reissue, which had exactly that nature).

But, of course, each of us have our own "pair of glasses" and sensitivities (thankfully, otherwise it would be a bore).


----------



## oleg1

I am from Ukraine and there are no problems to buy "Ushastuju" or NVCH...and I bought NVCH.
But this watch is not good for wearing - only for collection. Lum doesn't work, dial always with problems - without original gloss and paint crumbles, hands with some pitting, glass with microcracks and bezel+crown from brass.
Even if you buy mint NVCH (price approx 1000USD I saw last time) - some of this problem will follow when wearing....50 years is a huge age for watch.


----------



## tokareva

Kotsov said:


> Miguel don't take this the wrong way. I'm in but I want to see the compressors on my wrist before I get too carried away with this.


Why wait around until the last minute? You know as well as I do how long it takes to get these projects planned, organized, debated, considered and scheduled...then we still have to wait for the manufacturing part.🙄😂


----------



## runningzombie

Any information around when you might start organizing the list? I'm super keen.


----------



## Chascomm

Just in case the discussion has not made it entirely clear, let me respond to the following:


lollo1979 said:


> So it means that basically the other reissue project is going to be supported/recognized by WUS?


No.

Concern about the viability of a proposed project does not imply support for another forum's project. What I was 'recognizing' was the simple fact that many of the members here are interested in the other project and that is likely to divide support for this project.

It is absolutely _not_ Watchuseek policy to attempt to compete with another forum's project or attempt to out-sell them. Projects hosted by this forum are _not _commercial activities for this forum (although we need to ensure that they be commercially viable for the supplier).


----------



## Kotsov

tokareva said:


> Why wait around until the last minute? You know as well as I do how long it takes to get these projects planned, organized, debated, considered and scheduled...then we still have to wait for the manufacturing part.🙄😂


I've already said I'm in on this and the previous post. No 2 and 3 remember.

Its just the ideal would be for this to be on the back of a completed project.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

runningzombie said:


> Any information around when you might start organizing the list? I'm super keen.


We'll need to establish first that the project has a strong support in order for WUS to consider if it may be eligible to be an official forum project. That will be established by the results of the poll and the development of the thread.  Usually, the project viability is appreciated only after about a month of discussion.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Just playing around, nothing serious. 
(Red seconds hand; thicker NVCh-30 crystal; printed strap.)


----------



## elsoldemayo

🤤


----------



## oleg1

I am in a deal 100%. 
But I suggest that strap title is rather funny. HVCH was military watch of Cold War - what the titles? 
People, who used this watch on USSR Navy wrote that NVCH was used with easy rubber-textile strap, rather similar to material from old inflatable boat. I think we can reproduce it, but no sense - it was only for diving, not good for wearing.


----------



## jimzilla

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Just playing around, nothing serious.
> (Red seconds hand; thicker NVCh-30 crystal; printed strap.)


That is a really nice strap design for just playing around! that should be one of the strap options and should be voted on when the time comes. I do like the RED seconds hand better as well.
speaking of the straps as someone who has not owned or is that familiar with this type of watch 
are there 2 piece straps available for these watches with the swing lugs?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

oleg1 said:


> I am in a deal 100%.
> But I suggest that strap title is rather funny. HVCH was military watch of Cold War - what the titles?
> People, who used this watch on USSR Navy wrote that NVCH was used with easy rubber-textile strap, rather similar to material from old inflatable boat. I think we can reproduce it, but no sense - it was only for diving, not good for wearing.


I'm not sure if I understood completely but, indeed, the idea is to do a reissue of that watch: the NVCh-30 ? From the references I gathered it was supplied with a single-pass nylon strap.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

jimzilla said:


> That is a really nice strap design for just playing around! that should be one of the strap options and should be voted on when the time comes. I do like the RED seconds hand better as well.
> speaking of the straps as someone who has not owned or is that familiar with this type of watch
> are there 2 piece straps available for these watches with the swing lugs?


Thank you 

For the ear lugs I think it's possible to find open-end 22mm aviator straps, for instance. (I'm not sure it would be possible to wiggle the ear lug through the springbar orifice of a conventional strap.)

The swing lugs accept conventional straps.


----------



## RevorRR

I participate. add me


----------



## Confuse-a-cat

Just to confirm I've voted and I'm in.......Can't afford it, but i'm in


----------



## justarussian

Olá! I am in.


----------



## Kotsov

Confuse-a-cat said:


> Just to confirm I've voted and I'm in.......Can't afford it, but i'm in


Isn't that the most enjoyable way?


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> We'll need to establish first that the project has a strong support in order for WUS to consider if it may be eligible to be an official forum project. That will be established by the results of the poll and the development of the thread.  Usually, the project viability is appreciated only after about a month of discussion.


Do you want a link in the RE and RU sites?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Kotsov said:


> Do you want a link in the RE and RU sites?


I considered it but I wonder if it would be premature without oficial status.


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I considered it but I wonder if it would be premature without oficial status.


Oops. I saw the like and posted on RU. It's just for the poll...

I'll hold off the RE.

Do you want to delete the RU?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Kotsov said:


> Oops. I saw the like and posted on RU. It's just for the poll...
> 
> I'll hold off the RE.
> 
> Do you want to delete the RU?


Hehehe it's not a problem  I think the Compressor was shared also before becoming official. Later I'll share it in RE


----------



## columela

I am in as I said in RE


----------



## Ruastur

Wow, awesome. I´m in.


----------



## Dgalbala

Hi guys!! I'm in! It's a beautiful project!!


----------



## Millones

Hi! 

I would like to take part in this project. Can I?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

It will need an expressive vote if it is to become an official project so... please vote!


----------



## t3tan3k

I'll participate in both projects and would like both to deliver, I'm just wondering how many people here saw the original case in person and want that exact size re-issue.. Basically it wears really small even compared to 37mm vintage swiss divers due to its lugless design. Just something to think about

t3tan3k


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> I'll participate in both projects and would like both to deliver, I'm just wondering how many people here saw the original case in person and want that exact size re-issue.. Basically it wears really small even compared to 37mm vintage swiss divers due to its lugless design. Just something to think about
> 
> t3tan3k


That's why I believe there's space for both approaches: a 41mm homage for those looking for a more substancial diameter, and a 38.5mm reissue for those looking for something close to the original.

(I must say, though, that I use a 350 as a daily driver -on my wrist right now- and it feels perfectly adequate. It wears similarly to a 420.)


----------



## t3tan3k

^^ I disagree on it "wearing" similar to 420 or even 960 (both measure ~39.7mm), but that's subjective I suppose. That being said I do think that 41mm is too large for a watch like this and personally would (and _have_ in the watch.ru vote) pick original size.

One thing I wanted to suggest for the original size re-issue is if we could get _machined_ swing-lugs (in addition to wire lugs) that would be really really awesome and may add some needed heft to the thing

t3tan3k


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> ^^ I disagree on it "wearing" similar to 420 or even 960 (both measure ~39.7mm), but that's subjective I suppose. That being said I do think that 41mm is too large for a watch like this and personally would (and _have_ in the watch.ru vote) pick original size.
> 
> One thing I wanted to suggest for the original size re-issue is if we could get _machined_ swing-lugs (in addition to wire lugs) that would be really really awesome and may add some needed heft to the thing
> 
> t3tan3k


I've been having the same thought about the swing lugs. Even if they have the same exact shape and thickness as the original, having them machined instead of pressed would result in a better finish. It's debatable, though, of course. Maybe we could revisit it at the "decisions" stage


----------



## jimzilla

If there are going to be 2 watches offered can we have side by sides of the NVCh-30 / 350 so we can see the size difference and other characteristics of the watches next to each other? 
I think it would be helpful Miguel.
I would also like to suggest a seconds hand option as well - Gold or Red. thanks.


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I've been having the same thought about the swing lugs. Even if they have the same exact shape and thickness as the original, having them machined instead of pressed would result in a better finish. It's debatable, though, of course. Maybe we could revisit it at the "decisions" stage


Its worth considering. If there is one thing I'd update it would be the cheap stampings. I can see that it might be part of the appeal of the original. Its a delicate balance....


----------



## lagazeta

Vote, if I am interested.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

jimzilla said:


> If there are going to be 2 watches offered can we have side by sides of the NVCh-30 / 350 so we can see the size difference and other characteristics of the watches next to each other?
> I think it would be helpful Miguel.
> I would also like to suggest a seconds hand option as well - Gold or Red. thanks.


Yes, I think that's possible 👍


----------



## Zero_es

I’m in from RE. Thanks


----------



## werewolf0001

I want to join this project


----------



## werewolf0001

Number 28 if possible pleace


----------



## Ancebl

I'm interested in the projet
I also come from RE
Thanks


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

I don't know what your thoughts about it are, but maybe we have enough steam behind us to discuss a few details about how the watch could be.

Just like we did with the Compressor project, I'll favor discussing our options through the thread rather than making polls. I feel that that approach will favor the voice of those more invested in the project and, more than provide an easy (and sometimes uninterested) vote, it provides us the reasoning behind the vote too, which is far more enriching for the project.

That doesn't mean that we can't occasionally resort to polls if needed (if it's not clear which way to go, or if we need to quantify something), but those will be easier if/when the project eventually manages to become an official project.

-----

As part of my professional "conditioning" (for better and for worse) I tend to dive almost archeologically into such "heritage" projects, trying to document and restore the original design as best as possible and as close to the original intention as possible. Having said that, though, this professional conditioning also pushes me to try and compose any oversight or shortcoming of the original design in order to take it towards the future in the best shape possible.

This first question comes from that contradiction (and was first approached, in fact, on my previous mod/homage to the NVCh-30). In that mod I used a gold tension ring to help integrate the golden hands in the overall design of the watch.

(Gold hands are central to these watches' identity, of course -no way to consider any other finish for the hands or anything other than stainless for the case- so the solution would need to come from a lateral approach.)

For this NVCh-30/350 project that ring could also be a possibility (even if the ring's role will be aesthetic rather than to provide tension for the crystal).

It would be nice for the design but, of course, it's at the same time debatable if it wouldn't be an unnecessary deviation from the original.

What do you guys think? Would you favor having a golden ring surrounding the dial or would rather have a stainless one (integrated in the case)?


----------



## haejuk

I think this is a unnecessary deviation. Sapphire crystals don't use tension rings, so this just adds in another element of complexity. It would have to be a part of the dial in order to work and I don't think it would achieve the same pleasant effect we would normally see with a gold tension ring under an acrylic crystal. Also would deviate from the stated goal of "as close as possible" to an original.

With all that said, if it is very subtle and simple, as the render shows, I would be fine with it. Just depends on how it would be implemented I guess.


----------



## t3tan3k

I have no preference on the ring color, I think it looks great either way, but the watch simply wont look right to me without a *red *seconds hand...

Vostok NVCh-30 History & Reference Guide


----------



## mariomart

I am in favor of a gilt faux tension ring. Although it deviates from the original, I think it adds a certain elegance and is a very subtle change, helping to differentiate between old and new.


----------



## Zero_es

I see it as an unnecessary deviation, but it won't be something that will rule out the project, but my answer would be without a gold ring


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> I have no preference on the ring color, I think it looks great either way, but the watch simply wont look right to me without a *red *seconds hand...
> 
> Vostok NVCh-30 History & Reference Guide


Of course, but one thing at a time


----------



## pump 19

haejuk said:


> I think this is a unnecessary deviation...also would deviate from the stated goal of "as close as possible" to an original.


The rendering with gold the ring is nicely done but I agree with haejuk. The simpler approach of the original appeals to me more.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

haejuk said:


> I think this is a unnecessary deviation. Sapphire crystals don't use tension rings, so this just adds in another element of complexity. It would have to be a part of the dial in order to work and I don't think it would achieve the same pleasant effect we would normally see with a gold tension ring under an acrylic crystal. Also would deviate from the stated goal of "as close as possible" to an original.
> 
> With all that said, if it is very subtle and simple, as the render shows, I would be fine with it. Just depends on how it would be implemented I guess.


It would be an extra part, while the stainless "ring" could just be part of the case.

It wouldn't be part of the dial, though: it would be between the dial and the crystal, fitted in a case ledge, hiding the dial edge (just like the tension ring does).










It's a bit of a contradiction though, for sure. A compromise between originality, a need to subtly clarify (one way or another) that this is not an original, and aesthetics.

But I'm sure we'll figure out where the sweet spot is for us  the design holds perfectly either way.


----------



## Sullivanjt

I'm interested in this project! I personally like the gilt tension ring


----------



## tokareva

Adding the gold ring would completely destroy any interest I have in the project. Comrade Oldfox is already working on a customized version. Can we please stay focused on what made the new compressor project so successful and keep this one as original as possible?


----------



## Sayan

No gold ring, please


----------



## palletwheel

I thought it got hashed out throughly in earlier posts. What gets delivered in this project is as an exact a clone as possible of a Type 350. Its just fine the way it is. There should be no ambiguity on this point. Keeping things truthful to the original design will also keep costs down, as that was factored into the original design as well. "Originality" has a tendency to drive up cost.

This goes back to the discussion, of using a box sapphire crystal, which is the nearest fit to the organic original. It will be simpler to build. Making things as simple as possible is what we want, it makes for a more likely successful project. Any added complexity asked of Vostok will drive up costs, it just won't be as visible. So what you think you are saving on the one hand by using a convex sapphire crystal could easily be paid out by making all kinds of precision changes/additions and moving things around. And we should be careful of asking Vostok to do more than they may be able to give. Since the decision of what kind of crystal to use actually has very serious impact on the project, I'd rather we discuss it or make a poll now instead of continuing with the design diagrams being shown that assume a convex crystal.


----------



## werewolf0001

I agree, no gold ring


----------



## elsoldemayo

B would be my preference too as it's closer to the original.


----------



## lorroberty

I do like the golden ring but I see the point that this project should keep closest to the original while Oldfox can roam around and about. In this way the two stays meaningful and can keep interest.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

palletwheel said:


> I thought it got hashed out throughly in earlier posts. What gets delivered in this project is as an exact a clone as possible of a Type 350. Its just fine the way it is. There should be no ambiguity on this point. Keeping things truthful to the original design will also keep costs down, as that was factored into the original design as well. "Originality" has a tendency to drive up cost.
> 
> This goes back to the discussion, of using a box sapphire crystal, which is the nearest fit to the organic original. It will be simpler to build. Making things as simple as possible is what we want, it makes for a more likely successful project. Any added complexity asked of Vostok will drive up costs, it just won't be as visible. So what you think you are saving on the one hand by using a convex sapphire crystal could easily be paid out by making all kinds of precision changes/additions and moving things around. And we should be careful of asking Vostok to do more than they may be able to give. Since the decision of what kind of crystal to use actually has very serious impact on the project, I'd rather we discuss it or make a poll now instead of continuing with the design diagrams being shown that assume a convex crystal.


We will reach that subject too, of course, but things are not always as straight forward as they seem: every part has implications that branch out to everything else.

With the info we have at this time, a box crystal may not work, because in order to maintain the overall design it will need to be thinner than the double domed is (that has a 2.5mm thickness) and that may not allow for even a 20 atm WR. A sapphire crystal, to perform, has different geometric/dimensional needs than the acrylic: it's not possible to just do a sapphire with the same shape and dimensions of the original and have adequate performance.

Right now, the double domed keeps the design as close to original as is possible in all regards: the crown also needs that the dial moves 0.2mm inwards so that it is in the correct position: changing the crystal wouldn't change that.

A box crystal for 20 atm (not to mention 30 atm, because the double dome seems like it will allow for it while keeping the same profile as the original), with what we know at this time, would significantly force the dial/movement inwards, putting the crown out of place and making us redesign the case so that it's deeper. It would be a different watch.

But we'll see, of course, as we move forward and details develop, if things change in the direction of favoring a box crystal more or not.  Only at the engineering stage can we verify it with 100% certainty.


----------



## starjay

Stainless steel ring for me please


----------



## jimzilla

Stainless steel ring for me as well. thanks.


----------



## columela

I prefer to avoid the gold ring if possible 


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Kotsov

I like both but I don't want any extra "bits" for the sake of it so its silver for me.


----------



## 0elcid0

Other stainless steel ring to me.


----------



## Oldheritage

Yeah, I'd strongly prefer the stainless steel ring.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Only about a day and a half went by but I think we have a clear view of the direction we should take regarding the "tension ring" ? Keeping it in stainless is the logical route, especially considering the historic weight of the NVCh-30.

It was, also, a nice "test-drive" for the process, and I think this would be a great time to make two notes, one about our group dynamics going forward (which I think will probably be true for any such project) and another one to clarify some particulars of the project that seem to come up once in a while.

*__*

About the "tension ring" finish, I felt some of us were a bit displeased for such a silly question to be made, considering the clear cut nature of the project (though it is never that "clear cut", as I'll try to explain in the next note).

I totally understand it may have seemed silly for some but it was, in my view, an important question to make. Firstly, because it wasn't silly for everyone and all should have the space to have a voice regarding it. Secondly, because I felt that this is part of having everyone involved in the process that will result in the final design, and I'd say that that involvement is a desirable thing (even if at times it may become hard to manage).

I have more of these "silly" questions to ask! (Though, to be honest, I did already remove a few of them from the list just because of the foreseeable aggravation they'd bring.)

As we've seen on previous projects, it's easy for tensions to build on small things as we go along the process (we may not always agree with each other or fulfill what we'd like to) but it's important to stay generous and to keep a positive tone, especially considering this is all a voluntary effort.

So, moving forward, all of us should try to be patient as we go along, try to be open to the many complexities present, try not to be too fundamentalistic, and try to be not too aggressive in defending our valid points. It's important for us to be kind and to have some flexibility so that we can sail through the process always on a good note and make it enjoyable!

(And please understand that the time-consuming silly questions -including those still to be made and whose result may be easily anticipated- are there to make the process inclusive: try to regard them as a positive thing!)

*__*

About the nature of the project, I know that it seems quite clear-cut. Though on the surface a project like this is straightforward ("let's just do it the same"), at its core it's a different story, as you know.

Unfortunately, the way the watch was built in the early 70s is no more, so we need to find a different route through what is pragmatically possible today in such a way that allows us to get, as close as possible, to the same goal.

The original design was developed for a different set of technical circumstances that is no longer here and an absolute replica can't be pragmatically or economically achieved. (Touching a bit on what Palletwheel said, I'm afraid following exactly the original design would really not be cost-effective: quite the opposite!)

For instance, our black dial will be painted as opposed to the oxidation process that was likely used before, our bezel and crown won't be brass, the crystal won't be acrylic, the movement won't be a 2209, we'll have superluminova, we'll have better quality overall and tighter tolerances, etc..

In the end, what I'm really trying to say is: compromise will always be part of the project. Compromise about what we want and what can pragmatically and technically be done; compromise between what we want and what the other forum member wants; compromise between our wish for an absolute replica and the ethical obligation (and respect for the original) to not deceive or create ambiguity about what our watch is, etc..

That is why silly questions like the finish of the "tension ring" appear: because while our project is walking on a very, very well defined line, not all of it is black and white (and even if I can anticipate where the consensus will be, I'd rather hear everyone's views than just present a final, locked design).

I think, if I may say so myself, that we are in a very good spot: our compromise seems to be a great one, I wouldn't mistake our design with any other watch: it's clearly an NVCh-30 / 350 to the t. So let's make it the best project it can be!

*__*

So, now that those notes are out of the way, I had a thought (not in great depth, I confess -we can probably revisit the idea at a later stage with more focus) on which I'd love to hear your opinions! 

As you know, the intention is to have two versions of the project. The "hero" version will be, for sure, the NVCh-30, and the 350 will be its side-kick (just like the orange compressor was the "hero" version of the Compressor project and the green compressor its side-kick).

I don't know how many of the 350 version we will decide to make (we will, at a later stage, do a proper poll to back the proportion between both projects with numbers) but I anticipate that they will be done in quite smaller numbers than the NVCh-30.

In principle, what we'll prefer -from the informal "polls" we'll have as we move along with the process- for the NVCh-30 would be, more or less (given their similarities), the same as what we'll prefer for the 350. That was, at least, the line I was following in my mind.

But what if the 350 had slightly different details than the NVCh-30?

While it was clear that, on this "poll", the majority wanted a stainless ring, there were also some that favored the gilded one. I'm sure this will happen too at the next "polls". The 350 version, with its small numbers, could be the alternative for those who would prefer "the dark side" of the "polls".  (Catchy!)

But, I think most importantly, if the NVCh-30 and the 350 versions take slightly different options in minute details, the project overall may be more encompassing to different sensibilities, and I think both versions will be more justified too if they have slightly different approaches (the NVCh-30 version with the more rigorous one).

What are your thoughts on this?

Cheers (for enduring the post to the end)!


----------



## elsoldemayo

Silly question from me, which one is the 30 and which is the 350? The images in the opening post are titles so I don't know which is which.


----------



## MattBrace

elsoldemayo said:


> Silly question from me, which one is the 30 and which is the 350? The images in the opening post are titles so I don't know which is which.


The 350 has the non numerical triangle dial.

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> The 350 has the non numerical triangle dial.
> 
> Cheers...


Exactly!









The 350 has a lower crystal, swing lugs instead of ear lugs, different dial and hands, and a 20atm wr rating (as opposed to the NVCh-30 30atm wr rating).


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Non stop, guys! Let's go ahead!


----------



## elsoldemayo

Thanks for clarifying Matt. I should know this really as I have a mint 350 so no 'sidekick' for me.


----------



## t3tan3k

That one is called "Toothy" Amphibia on russian boards ) It does have a different seconds hand than the NVCH though - has a smaller lume-dot that's also located closer to the tip than on NVCH


----------



## jimzilla

elsoldemayo said:


> Silly question from me, which one is the 30 and which is the 350? The images in the opening post are titles so I don't know which is which.


I am with elsoldemayo, I am just not familiar with the in's and out's of these watches, I would like side by side pictures with specifications so I may be a little more educated on these watches. I like both styles but it would be nice to have some more information so I can formulate better questions.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

jimzilla said:


> I am with elsoldemayo, I am just not familiar with the in's and out's of these watches, I would like side by side pictures with specifications so I may be a little more educated on these watches. I like both styles but it would be nice to have some more information so I can formulate better questions.


The NVCh-30 and the 350 share the same case. The 350 was the first Amphibia and the NVCh-30 is its mythical military version with an increased WR to 30atm, achieved with a thicker crystal and a thicker caseback.

Our friend Matt Brace did a brilliant piece on the NVCh-30 (that also touches the 350) here:








Vostok NVCh-30 History & Reference Guide


The following Guide has been compiled to amalgamate all current information regarding the НВЧ-30. It also includes my findings over many years of collecting and researching these watches. As much information as possible has been




vintagewatchinc.com





There's also a great article about the 350 from our RE friend Lobito here, though it's in Spanish:








Vostok Amphibia Type 350 Primera Generación


Me atrevería a afirmar que en el mundo de los aficionados a la relojería en general, no hay nadie que no conozca el Vostok Amphibia. Este último, con sus más de 50 años de vida, se ha convertido en el…




www.safonagastrocrono.club





The plan of the project is (since they share most of their components) to reissue both: same dimensions, the 350 with 20 atm wr and shallower crystal, the NVCh-30 with 30 atm wr and thicker crystal and caseback.

Edit:

That great 350 article is from Miguel Angel Cladera (@miquel99) and not from Lobito (who also has written great pieces), and Miguel was kind enough to leave us a link for the English version of the article:









Vostok Amphibia Type 350 First Generation


Nota: Esta es la entrada original. La versión en castellano la encontraréis en este vínculo. I would dare to affirm that among watch enthusiasts in general, it is hard to find anyone who does not know…




www.safonagastrocrono.club





Sorry Miguel  and thank you!


----------



## Utva_56

Just a suggestion: As 2409 movement is specified for the project, can we ask for gilded screws as this will give the possibility to use see-through case back. That case back will not be part of the project.


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> The NVCh-30 and the 350 share the same case. The 350 was the first Amphibia and the NVCh-30 is its mythical military version with an increased WR to 30atm, achieved with a thicker crystal and a thicker caseback.
> 
> Our friend Matt Brace did a brilliant piece on the NVCh-30 (that also touches the 350) here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vostok NVCh-30 History & Reference Guide
> 
> 
> The following Guide has been compiled to amalgamate all current information regarding the НВЧ-30. It also includes my findings over many years of collecting and researching these watches. As much information as possible has been
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vintagewatchinc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's also a great article about the 350 from our RE friend Lobito here, though it's in Spanish:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vostok Amphibia Type 350 Primera Generación
> 
> 
> Me atrevería a afirmar que en el mundo de los aficionados a la relojería en general, no hay nadie que no conozca el Vostok Amphibia. Este último, con sus más de 50 años de vida, se ha convertido en el…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.safonagastrocrono.club
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The plan of the project is (since they share most of their components) to reissue both: same dimensions, the 350 with 20 atm wr and shallower crystal, the NVCh-30 with 30 atm wr and thicker crystal and caseback.


Great articles, thank you.


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you Miguel for putting up that information it cleared things up for me. Since both watches have the same cases
are the 2 different swing lug types interchangeable as well? and while I am on the subject I would like to per pose if we can get a spare set of lugs for each watch I know there not cheap, would it be cheaper in a group buy such as this to get an extra pair?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Utva_56 said:


> Just a suggestion: As 2409 movement is specified for the project, can we ask for gilded screws as this will give the possibility to use see-through case back. That case back will not be part of the project.


We could explore the cost of it when the time comes, it could be interesting!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

jimzilla said:


> Thank you Miguel for putting up that information it cleared things up for me. Since both watches have the same cases
> are the 2 different swing lug types interchangeable as well? and while I am on the subject I would like to per pose if we can get a spare set of lugs for each watch I know there not cheap, would it be cheaper in a group buy such as this to get an extra pair?


Yes, they'd be interchangeable (as they were in the originals). We can try to understand what would the cost of supplying them both with a watch be, but I don't think Dmitry would be willing to supply them separately.

(There are swing lugs and ear lugs reproductions for the originals that would work with these too, though!)


----------



## jimzilla

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Yes, they'd be interchangeable (as they were in the originals). We can try to understand what would the cost of supplying them both with a watch be, but I don't think Dmitry would be willing to supply them separately.
> 
> (There are swing lugs and ear lugs reproductions for the originals that would work with these too, though!)


Curious .... how are the swing lugs attached to the case?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

jimzilla said:


> Curious .... how are the swing lugs attached to the case?


There's a springbar going though the case


----------



## jimzilla

thank you Miguel.


----------



## miquel99

Hi Miguel. Thank you so much for sharing my work about the 350 (not from Lobito) 😄Here you have in english languaje too! A very interesting proyect!!









Vostok Amphibia Type 350 First Generation


Nota: Esta es la entrada original. La versión en castellano la encontraréis en este vínculo. I would dare to affirm that among watch enthusiasts in general, it is hard to find anyone who does not know…




www.safonagastrocrono.club


----------



## gamf

Very nice and interesting project , I hope we go ahead with it cause I would be in


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

miquel99 said:


> Hi Miguel. Thank you so much for sharing my work about the 350 (not from Lobito) Here you have in english languaje too! A very interesting proyect!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vostok Amphibia Type 350 First Generation
> 
> 
> Nota: Esta es la entrada original. La versión en castellano la encontraréis en este vínculo. I would dare to affirm that among watch enthusiasts in general, it is hard to find anyone who does not know…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.safonagastrocrono.club


 I'm so sorry Miguel!! I was confused with another text...
Thank you so much for being a gentleman and for the link!!

(I corrected the original post too!)


----------



## andrea__81

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Yes, they'd be interchangeable (as they were in the originals). We can try to understand what would the cost of supplying them both with a watch be, but I don't think Dmitry would be willing to supply them separately.
> 
> (There are swing lugs and ear lugs reproductions for the originals that would work with these too, though!)


Having both types of lugs provided with each watch would be fantastic IMHO.


----------



## hairythomas

Voted yes and would definitely be interested. Never been involved in a project like this and don’t know how it works — subscribed to the thread and looking forward to seeing what emerges.


----------



## Ligavesh

Here's my old 350, currently looking for a more fitting strap:


----------



## tresenraya

I'd be in for a 350.


----------



## Link

Hi, Miguel, thank you for to post the proyect in Relojes Especiales spanish watches forum, i come from there. 
A "yes" is voted, so waiting for news.

Regards.

P.D: Excuse my incorrect english.


----------



## Miguelillo

Thanks Miguel, i´m in YES


----------



## Kotsov

hairythomas said:


> Voted yes and would definitely be interested. Never been involved in a project like this and don't know how it works - subscribed to the thread and looking forward to seeing what emerges.


Its not like Amazon Prime.

Put year aside and enjoy how things develop...


----------



## hairythomas

Kotsov said:


> Its not like Amazon Prime.
> 
> Put year aside and enjoy how things develop...


 looking forward to it


----------



## Kotsov

hairythomas said:


> looking forward to it


If you get involved then part of the final product is yours...


----------



## Shumik

I'm in.


----------



## iomran

Привет, ребята!! Я в деле! Прекрасный проект !!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Are you ready for the next silly question?  I know this one has been highly anticipated!

While it's true that we aim to navigate as close as possible to the original, we still need to make clear that the re-issue and the original are distinguishable.

Though I believe that the changes on the dial (place of manufacture and jewel count) and caseback graphics may be sufficient for that purpose, these watches will be very similar when placed side by side, so that belief may not be universal. That's why (even if I can have a good grasp of where the vote will be) I want to hear everyone out!

Cheers!


----------



## lorroberty

that's really hard for me to choose! 
I would say:
if the second hand is the only red point in the watch I prefer the gold one.

But I am open to purist pointing out "it should be red"


----------



## elsoldemayo

I'd vote for a red second hand... but it's only a 51%-49% vote as I do like the gold too.


----------



## mariomart

elsoldemayo said:


> I'd vote for a red second hand... but it's only a 51%-49% vote as I do like the gold too.


I'm with @elsoldemayo, ever so much favouring the red hand by a percentage point.

I can't wait until we discuss the height and texture of the dial lume, I'm really hoping there is a way to replicate the foamy texture and caramelish color


----------



## oleg1

There were both variants of hands - early had a golden hand, after some date there were red hands, but with other bezel.
As for me - I like red hand, I have original NVCH with golden hand and I suggest - too little contrast


----------



## jimzilla

Red hand please.


----------



## pump 19

A - Red


----------



## justarussian

Red. Я за оригинал. Золотую при желании можно потом купить у Меранома.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

mariomart said:


> I'm with @elsoldemayo, ever so much favouring the red hand by a percentage point.
> 
> I can't wait until we discuss the height and texture of the dial lume, I'm really hoping there is a way to replicate the foamy texture and caramelish color


We'll get there too!


----------



## haejuk

I also prefer the red hand by a bit. Both look good though.


----------



## Millones

Red hand. It moves more than the others. Just for that, it must be different... just joking, but I prefer red hand


----------



## columela

Red seconds hand for me


Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## hairythomas

Would prefer the red.


----------



## OCSleeper

Red.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> We'll get there too!


I hope the bezel can have somewhat less of a mirror finish than the first reissue. Was the original plated brass? I'm not suggesting making it brass, but you know how quickly plated brass gets beat up and loses it's super reflective look. Could there be some way to make it not super shiny, unless that conflicts with the original appearance?


----------



## t3tan3k

Red


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Red, yes, please.

There would be enough differentiation details... and non aficionados wouldn't know how to anyway...


----------



## t3tan3k

I think that the only deviation from original that I'd really want is a unidirectional clicking bezel. It would look exactly the same, but would make this thing an actual dive watch..


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> I hope the bezel can have somewhat less of a mirror finish than the first reissue. Was the original plated brass? I'm not suggesting making it brass, but you know how quickly plated brass gets beat up and loses it's super reflective look. Could there be some way to make it not super shiny, unless that conflicts with the original appearance?


Yes, they came out of the factory pretty shinny (as you said, it was wear and tear that made them less polished).

Considering that the entire case was polished with the exception of the brushed side band, I don't know if adding a third finish (sandblasted, matte?) would look good with this design (nor very accurate to the original design). I'll check if there are any options, though 👍


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> I think that the only deviation from original that I'd really want is a unidirectional clicking bezel. It would look exactly the same, but would make this thing an actual dive watch..


Unfortunately, on the shoulder of the bezel, I don't think there's enough space for the second wire, as that area was already compromised to include the crystal gasket and it's on its viability limit.
(I'm not sure, even so, if it would work well with this particular project: it was done before with the previous reissue -which modernized the watch- and many were displeased with it. It will still be an actual dive watch, though: if it was good enough for the Navy Special Forces, it will be decent for us too.  )


----------



## t3tan3k

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Unfortunately, on the shoulder of the bezel, I don't think there's enough space for the second wire, as that area was already compromised to include the crystal gasket and it's on its viability limit.
> (I'm not sure, even so, if it would work well with this particular project: it was done before, with the previous reissue, and many were displeased with it. It will still be an actual dive watch, though: if it was good enough for the Navy Special Forces, it will be decent for us too.  )


Heh I think there were too many things people didn't like about how the previous NVCh project turned out to single out the clicking bezel )) I do see the challenge with getting the leaf spring in there, but wonder if Dmitry could find a technical solution for us


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Yes, they came out of the factory pretty shinny (as you said, it was wear and tear that made them less polished).
> 
> Considering that the entire case was polished with the exception of the brushed side band, I don't know if adding a third finish (sandblasted, matte?) would look good with this design (nor very accurate to the original design). I'll check if there are any options, though 👍


Thank you, comrade, I agree that sandblasting or even matte would be too extreme. Let me ask you this, is it possible to also have some bezels made from brass like the original? They are brass originally, right? It seems like the watch will never look exactly the same if it has a steel bezel, although having a choice of both would be great.


----------



## Kotsov

Red


----------



## frenchtreasure

A--- Red please.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Thank you, comrade, I agree that sandblasting or even matte would be too extreme. Let me ask you this, is it possible to also have some bezels made from brass like the original? They are brass originally, right? It seems like the watch will never look exactly the same if it has a steel bezel, although having a choice of both would be great.


I understand your point  but I'm afraid it wouldn't be viable to have a choice of bezels (both because of the logistics and of the small numbers involved).


----------



## Oldheritage

Red please


----------



## nitchai

Count me in


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I understand your point  but I'm afraid it wouldn't be viable to have a choice of bezels (both because of the logistics and of the small numbers involved).


Thank you, but I don't mean a choice between the two, just another batch of brass bezels. What about making all of them brass, would that really be so bad?


----------



## Victorv

If possible, i want one


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Thank you, but I don't mean a choice between the two, just another batch of brass bezels. What about making all of them brass, would that really be so bad?


I think it would. 

The case supplier is set up to machine parts out of stainless: I don't know if they are setup for brass machining and chrome plating anymore, and these parts (case, bezel and crown) will have to all come from the same supplier.

I think stainless steel is also a desirable upgrade, considering how our classic 350s/NVCh-30s reached us (with impeccable bodies and crumbling bezels and crowns). I don't doubt for a second that the original designers would have done them all in stainless steel if they could.

Meranom's comercial interest should also be considered (after all, they are taking the totality of the risk of the project, paying for the watches in advance even if users bail out) and I suspect a brass bezel and crown won't be desirable specs for them to pursue.

(Even the different tones between chrome and stainless would be painful to see in a project of this kind, with all the care and effort we're putting into it, never-mind it's cost.)

I don't think going back to brass could really be an option: it would be pursuing a negative shortcoming through pragmatic obstacles. We want this watch to be many things, but also to be a good, quality product, well built, that lasts.


----------



## AlekseiIud

Red second hand with steel tension ring


----------



## Trompetas del Infierno

Miguel Fazendas said:


> View attachment 15599732


Thanks Miguel, i´m in: voted YES

And about the quote, I prefer option B.


----------



## artog

Интересный проект. Приму участие.


----------



## lorroberty

chroming and brass are pointless nowadays. They would make paradoxically the watch more expensive but worse.


----------



## pump 19

lorroberty said:


> chroming and brass are pointless nowadays. They would make paradoxically the watch more expensive but worse.


I think the stated object of the project was a watch as close to original as possible and reasonable. To me that's the draw. Since it originally used a brass bezel it seems entirely appropriate to bring it up. Thanks to Miguel for the detailed answer on why steel is the way to go.


----------



## DocTone

Nice project , I'm in


----------



## Arizone

More than the color red itself, is it possible to get the transparent reflective red that is found on the originals, to be particularly different than modern watches with opaque paint?


----------



## t3tan3k

^^ would definitely like to have the color/reflectivity of red matched as close as possible


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Arizone said:


> More than the color red itself, is it possible to get the transparent reflective red that is found on the originals, to be particularly different than modern watches with opaque paint?





t3tan3k said:


> ^^ would definitely like to have the color/reflectivity of red matched as close as possible


We can see with Dmitry what the supplier can do about the finish, but is it established that that's the correct finish for the seconds hand?
None of the NVCh-30 watches in my reference photos (some of them reportedly NOS) seems to have a "metallic" red seconds hand (the only one close is a 2nd generation one with worn-out paint, so the gold is showing through).


----------



## Arizone

Miguel Fazendas said:


> We can see with Dmitry what the supplier can do about the finish, but is it established that that's the correct finish for the seconds hand?
> None of the NVCh-30 watches in my reference photos (some of them reportedly NOS) seems to have a "metallic" red seconds hand (the only one close is a 2nd generation one with worn-out paint, so the gold is showing through).


More research and input is definitely welcome. It may not have been used through all generations but it is a detail I noticed before across some examples. Here is another, where some of it is worn away, but you can see the leftover red is still brighter than an opaque paint would be. I don't know if aging is what caused this transparency, but that could maybe be the explanation too.



Here is another that still appears deep red, but you can notice the slightly more burgundy hue than usual. I believe that to be a characteristic of the transparent paint and you can see the metallic sheen on the edges in the linked macro photos.



And last, a third one where it's almost completely faded, but still noticeably different than the bare gold on the other two hands.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Arizone said:


> More research and input is definitely welcome. It may not have been used through all generations but it is a detail I noticed before across some examples. Here is another, where some of it is worn away, but you can see the leftover red is still brighter than an opaque paint would be. I don't know if aging is what caused this transparency, but that could maybe be the explanation too.


That's the one I was mentioning  it's metallic because the gold is showing through: it's more metallic where there's less paint, less where there's more paint (quite unlike your example). All the other watches on my references (that still have paint) have opaque paint.

edit:
The second Gen II you added seems quite similar to yours (though it has a strangely small lume dot)!
The others it seems like just different degrees of paint fade, I don't know if we could consider them determinant.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

A couple of days have passed on the "poll" about the seconds hand color and it seems like there's a majority favoring the red seconds hand (though quite a few proponents of the guilded version too: maybe we can revisit it on the 350 version).

So, we're moving forward with the red: I think the project is going very well, in a good direction!










*__*

Just as a heads-up for those interested, I've been updating the first post with all the specs as we know them.

*__*

A great piece of news, too: our friend Miguel Angel Cladera (Miquel99) has written a very generous article about the project!
Proyecto Vostok Amphibia 350 Y NVCh-30

*__*

Finally, just a reminder for those who didn't: please vote on the poll!

I'll be preparing the next question soon 👍


----------



## hoja_roja

Miguel Fazendas said:


> A couple of days have passed on the "poll" about the seconds hand color and it seems like there's a majority favoring the red seconds hand (though quite a few proponents of the guilded version too: maybe we can revisit it on the 350 version).
> 
> So, we're moving forward with the red: I think the project is going very well, in a good direction!
> 
> View attachment 15603407
> 
> 
> *__*
> 
> Just as a heads-up for those interested, I've been updating the first post with all the specs as we know them.
> 
> *__*
> 
> A great piece of news, too: our friend Miguel Angel Cladera (Miquel99) has written a very generous article about the project!
> Proyecto Vostok Amphibia 350 Y NVCh-30
> 
> *__*
> 
> Finally, just a reminder for those who didn't: please vote on the poll!
> 
> I'll be preparing the next question soon 👍


Miquel and the team of Safona are the best🧐


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

hoja_roja said:


> Miquel and the team of Safona are the best🧐


They are brilliant!


----------



## WhatchingYou

Please count me in. I like to order one too. I choose option B.


----------



## Marco.zavatta

I am in, congrats great idea!!


----------



## ghemml

I'm in for 2 pieces


----------



## Cosmograph

Miguel Fazendas said:


> That's the one I was mentioning  it's metallic because the gold is showing through: it's more metallic where there's less paint, less where there's more paint (quite unlike your example). All the other watches on my references (that still have paint) have opaque paint.
> 
> edit:
> The second Gen II you added seems quite similar to yours (though it has a strangely small lume dot)!
> The others it seems like just different degrees of paint fade, I don't know if we could consider them determinant.


Is there an official sign up? Thanks


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Miguel Fazendas said:


> They are brilliant!


You bet...!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Cosmograph said:


> Is there an official sign up? Thanks


At this stage of the process, we need to ascertain that there's a strong support for the project in order for it to progress to official status. Hence the poll that leads this thread: both the votes and the discussion will be considered for that evaluation. Once the project gets official status, we can open a registration list!


----------



## SgtPluck

I'm IN like a mo'fo.


----------



## ReactorMonk

I’m in! 


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Evaldasgu

Please count me in. Looks amaizing so far!


----------



## AgalosApostolos

First time here in this group. Do we know dimensions of the watch? dial colors?


----------



## Frontoviki

Im in. I hope for as close to original as possible. Could be great with 090 case . With the thicker acryl and thicker caseback like the original. If not all original, maybe 24mm lugs and a special dial to make it stand out more ?.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Welcome to all the newcomers on the thread 
To get up to speed with the project and its premises, please check the first post of the thread (which sums up the project's principles, current specs and design genesis).

Feel also free to read on as the thread developed, as that will help figure out where we stand (so that the flow of the discussion isn't too compromised answering to points addressed before).


----------



## iomran

Im in. I hope for as close to original as possible.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

The first post is becoming quite a literature piece!
Even so, I edited it to also include the results of our ongoing discussions: that way there's an easy place where to find all the info as the project develops.


----------



## t3tan3k

I am getting really excited about this thing! Are we going to talk about the dial next? painted/printed lume vs sandwich and what texture the dial will have.. In either event, I'd like to propose (slightly?) rounding the sharp corners on the 3-6-9-12 as well as on cardinal indices to more closely resemble the hand-painted nature of those in the original


----------



## RandyT

Miguel Fazendas said:


> NVCh-30


I'm in for the NVCh-30


----------



## AlekseiIud

sorry if I sound super silly but why not consider the "toothy" NVCH to be with a black(PVD?) bezel and lighter(metallic?) dial? this version looks super cool


----------



## M26

Awesome! Count me in!


----------



## t3tan3k

AlekseiIud said:


> sorry if I sound super silly but why not consider the "toothy" NVCH to be with a black(PVD?) bezel and lighter(metallic?) dial? this version looks super cool


I wouldn't want a pvd bezel, but a champagne (metallic) dial version of the Toothy would be super cool! I may actually get one then because they will be a bit more different from each other...


----------



## AlekseiIud

t3tan3k said:


> I wouldn't want a pvd bezel, but a champagne (metallic) dial version of the Toothy would be super cool! I may actually get one then because they will be a bit more different from each other...


Agree, still looks awesome with a steel bezel too!


----------



## Oppenheimer 75

mariomart said:


> I'm in
> 
> I'd be happy with either version, however my preference would be for the 200m version, as the reason I fell in love with the 350 was the beautiful curve of the crystal and bezel.


I am in olso


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> I am getting really excited about this thing! Are we going to talk about the dial next? painted/printed lume vs sandwich and what texture the dial will have.. In either event, I'd like to propose (slightly?) rounding the sharp corners on the 3-6-9-12 as well as on cardinal indices to more closely resemble the hand-painted nature of those in the original


I'm happy to hear that!

Unfortunately, a sandwich dial would be out of the scope of the project (I believe Oldfox's project will have a sandwich dial and click unidirectional bezel, though, as you know). The texture of the dial should be as with the original one (which is smooth).

About the graphics (as I had an opportunity to mention before), they are directly scanned from an original dial. The graphics don't have rounded edges.
Since the dials were lumed by hand, a good applier would be able to follow the lines better. A sloppier one would round them out.










The right thing to do, I believe, is to supply the correct graphics and let the luming process round what it has to round.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> I wouldn't want a pvd bezel, but a champagne (metallic) dial version of the Toothy would be super cool! I may actually get one then because they will be a bit more different from each other...


It's beautiful: I'm actively looking for an original one for my collection!

I'm not really considering the silver dial for the project, though: the sheer volume of reproductions of this dial that are around makes me rather avoid any association/confusion of our project with it. I think it would be detrimental to the project's perception. (It's not final, though.)


----------



## t3tan3k

if you use sharp cornered font, it will 100% be printed sharp cornered, which no dial-maker could ever do by hand (if you see sharp corner on an original - what you are seeing is the outline printed underneath the hand-applied lume, which always has rounded or irregular corners) . Take a look at one of Meranom's versions of this dial - the font corners are rounded by design and hence look like(ish) the original (as font goes). Also, importantly, I'm not suggesting adding full rounds like on the image below - just rounding the corners to something like >25% to make it a bit softer


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> if you use sharp cornered font, it will 100% be printed sharp cornered, which no dial-maker could ever do by hand (if you see sharp corner on an original - what you are seeing is the outline printed underneath the hand-applied lume, which always has rounded or irregular corners) . Take a look at one of Meranom's versions of this dial - the font corners are rounded by design and hence look like(ish) the original (as font goes). Also, importantly, I'm not suggesting adding full rounds like on the image below - just rounding the corners to something like >25% to make it a bit softer


The original designers used sharp cornered "fonts".

When you see an original dial where the lume is applied by a good hand, you tend not to see that roundness. The rounder you get the worse it was applied (or, simply, the more layers of reluming over the original lume, creating super thick graphics as in some watches).

We may like the roundness more, but it doesn't make it more correct. (Nor does Meranom having done that on their dials.)

Our lume won't be simply a print, though (but it would have been better to have waited for the discussion to reach that particular subject).


----------



## t3tan3k

Miguel Fazendas said:


> When you see an original dial where the lume is applied by a good hand, you tend not to see that roundness. The rounder you get the worse it was applied (or, simply, the more layers of reluming over the original lume, creating super thick graphics as in some watches).
> 
> We may like the roundness more, but it doesn't make it more correct. (Nor does Meranom having done that on their dials.)
> 
> Our lume won't be simply a print, though (but it would have been better to have waited for the discussion to reach that particular subject).


The original lume was hand-applied over what appears to be "sharp" outlines printed underneath - on photos the lume is pretty much always rounded because it is viscous and was applied with a thin brush. Now if it was applied neatly inside the printed outline then you may (and sometimes do) see those printed sharp corners peeking out from under the lume (this is especially conspicuous on the 350 Toothy dials on the apexes of triangles). Not a major issue admittedly, and so long as the dial looks good, it looks good.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> The original lume was hand-applied over "sharp" outlines printed underneath - the lume is pretty much always rounded because it is viscous and was applied with a thin brush. Now if it was applied neatly inside the printed outline then you may (and sometimes do) see those printed sharp corners peeking out from under the lume. Not a major issue admittedly, and so long as the dial looks good, it looks good.


Agreed, it just appears that the original intent was to have the graphics as designed and the lume applied inside the graphics.

And, as you see, the overall result of the design is not always rounded.

I don't believe the design intent was to have rounded graphics. I'm inclined to use the design as it was originally designed: it's unambiguous and in line with our goals.

We'll explore the lume matter soon.


----------



## paschos76

I'm in.


----------



## Ptolomeo74

Very interesting. I am in!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hi everyone! Let's get to the next subject where the project needs your input: lume. 
Let's first get out of the way a few aspects of the matter:

. We'll be able to make a "raised" lume similarly to the original (it won't be flat on the dial) with rounded sides (it won't be cut and glued on)!
(The 3D doesn't reflect that well, but it's a limitation of the model, not a reflection of what it will actually be.)

. We won't have exactly the "foamy" texture of the original because it's, partially, caused by aging and, partially, caused by a more irregular application. Ours will have a more regular application due to the techniques used, but its surface will not be smooth: it will have a matte surface. It's the closest that is possible to get to the original with today's technique.

There has been some discussion about the "roundness of the fonts" after the lume is applied. All I can say is that our graphics were directly scanned from the original design. Lume application (sometimes brilliant, sometimes sloppy, sometimes with several layers of lume and relume) could (and did) change how the graphics looked to many degrees. While that change may not be part of the design as it was intended, it is part of how we know the design. I'll be in touch with Dmitry and his supplier to see how the lume application can contribute to producing a look as close as possible to the original: I'll keep you posted on it. But our starting point is the exact original design, so I must say we don't need to feel anxious about it at all.

*__*

Onwards to the pressing point: what lume should we use?

While on other watches this would be a detail, on this particular watch almost the entire dial design is lume. This point is rather central to the design and needs to be carefully thought through so that we can get the best final result possible!

There's little reference of how the lume looked like originally, other than some descriptions of it having an "ivory" tone. Something between a warm white and an eggshell color.
We do know that, as it aged, it progressed towards different colors (depending on how it was stored or not or other circumstances) but usually towards lighter or darker caramel colors.

Considering the use of Swiss Super-LumiNova for the lume, there are two candidates in their portfolio of colors that I feel are closer to what we need: the C3 we all know, and their LE/Old Radium colors.

The C3 is, under daylight, almost white (like the original when leaving the factory) but, unlike the original, has a cold tone instead of the warm ivory tone.
It may look, also, too contemporary.

The Light Old Radium (which I'd favor here over the regular Old Radium) is slightly darker than what I imagine the original ivory was, but has the right warm tone (and the original lume tended to progress towards these colors -and even darker- with time).










The Old Radium lume colors are considered to be high-glow lume colors, so there's no sigificant difference there.

I simulated both on the dial as closely as possible:










I must say that I lean towards the Light Old Radium, but what are your thoughts on it?

(As this is a subtle color thing, those using "night shift" or similar software to reduce blue light at night may not see the tones in question correctly.)


----------



## t3tan3k

I'd go with the lighter color lume


----------



## GoodNamesWereTaken

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hi everyone! Let's get to the next subject where the project needs your input: lume.
> Let's first get out of the way a few aspects of the matter:
> 
> . We'll be able to make a "raised" lume similarly to the original (it won't be flat on the dial) with rounded sides (it won't be cut and glued on)!
> (The 3D doesn't reflect that well, but it's a limitation of the model, not a reflection of what it will actually be.)
> 
> . We won't have exactly the "foamy" texture of the original because it's, partially, caused by aging and, partially, caused by a more irregular application. Ours will have a more regular application due to the techniques used, but its surface will not be smooth: it will have a matte surface. It's the closest that is possible to get to the original with today's technique.
> 
> There has been some discussion about the "roundness of the fonts" after the lume is applied. All I can say is that our graphics were directly scanned from the original design. Lume application (sometimes brilliant, sometimes sloppy, sometimes with several layers of lume and relume) could (and did) change how the graphics looked to many degrees. While that change may not be part of the design as it was intended, it is part of how we know the design. I'll be in touch with Dmitry and his supplier to see how the lume application can contribute to producing a look as close as possible to the original: I'll keep you posted on it. But our starting point is the exact original design, so I must say we don't need to feel anxious about it at all.
> 
> *__*
> 
> Onwards to the pressing point: what lume should we use?
> 
> While on other watches this would be a detail, on this particular watch almost the entire dial design is lume. This point is rather central to the design and needs to be carefully thought through so that we can get the best final result possible!
> 
> There's little reference of how the lume looked like originally, other than some descriptions of it having an "ivory" tone. Something between a warm white and an eggshell color.
> We do know that, as it aged, it progressed towards different colors (depending on how it was stored or not or other circumstances) but usually towards lighter or darker caramel colors.
> 
> Considering the use of Swiss Super-LumiNova for the lume, there are two candidates in their portfolio of colors that I feel are closer to what we need: the C3 we all know, and their LE/Old Radium colors.
> 
> The C3 is, under daylight, almost white (like the original when leaving the factory) but, unlike the original, has a cold tone instead of the warm ivory tone.
> It may look, also, too contemporary.
> 
> The Light Old Radium (which I'd favor here over the regular Old Radium) is slightly darker than what I imagine the original ivory was, but has the right warm tone (and the original lume tended progressed towards these colors -and even darker- with time).
> 
> View attachment 15605948
> 
> 
> The Old Radium lume colors are considered to be high-glow lume colors, so there's no sigificant difference there.
> 
> I simulated both on the dial as closely as possible:
> 
> View attachment 15605950
> 
> 
> I must say that I lean towards the Light Old Radium, but what are your thoughts on it?


Light old radium for me.


----------



## Millones

Light old radium, IMHO


----------



## Kotsov

Regular old radium.


----------



## tokareva

Between the two above I would definitely choose the ivory on the right, not the mint green. However, I really don't like either one of them. Out of the ones shown, I prefer the more white to contrast with the black dial.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Between the two above I would definitely choose the ivory on the right, not the mint green. However, I really don't like either one of them. Out of the ones shown, I prefer the more white to contrast with the black dial.
> View attachment 15606021


The descriptions mention an ivory tone for the original lume but the other graphics are (and will) be white 

(That's a nice example you found, impeccable dial -a bit surprising considering the condition of the hands!)


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> The descriptions mention an ivory tone for the original lume but the other graphics are (and will) be white
> 
> (That's a nice example you found, impeccable dial -a bit surprising considering the condition of the hands!)


I didn't find it, I just copied it from your post ?
Will there be extra dials available to buy for those who might want to experiment with the idea of creating a more rounded appearance of the markers, in case they aren't round enough from the factory, or to try and build up some more texture if needed?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> I didn't find it, I just copied it from your post
> Will there be extra dials available to buy for those who might want to experiment with the idea of creating a more rounded appearance of the markers, in case they aren't round enough from the factory, or to try and build up some more texture if needed?


I could ask Dmitry but, considering past experience from the Compressor project, he may be unwilling to do it


----------



## armanh

I'm in, is there a sign-up list? Sorry haven't read the full thread yet.


----------



## mariomart

Light old radium for me as well  

I will miss the "foamy" texture, wouldn't it be lovely if we could track down some of the original factory workers who applied the original lume, and get them back on station one last time


----------



## tokareva

mariomart said:


> Light old radium for me as well
> 
> I will miss the "foamy" texture, wouldn't it be lovely if we could track down some of the original factory workers who applied the original lume, and get them back on station one last time


For some reason this image is the first thing that came to mind when you said get the original workers back.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

mariomart said:


> Light old radium for me as well
> 
> I will miss the "foamy" texture, wouldn't it be lovely if we could track down some of the original factory workers who applied the original lume, and get them back on station one last time


That would be brilliant


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

armanh said:


> I'm in, is there a sign-up list? Sorry haven't read the full thread yet.


A registration list will be set up when the project gets official status: at this stage it's important to verify that there's enough support for it, so please vote on the poll and participate on the thread!


----------



## jimzilla

Miguel Fazendas said:


> That would be brilliant


I could go for a peanut butter and radium sandwich right about now
MMmmmm Yummy ...


----------



## Kotsov

jimzilla said:


> I could go for a peanut butter and radium sandwich right about now
> MMmmmm ummy ...


A nuclear sub?


----------



## justarussian

I like B, dark


----------



## pump 19

B looks best to me.


----------



## lorroberty

I like A but seems no big deal!


----------



## M26

Light Old Radium for me


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Many thanks for the update... It is exciting to see we're going on... even at this early stage...

Definitely OK with the lume application.
And I'd too prefer the Old Lume, yes.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Light old radium for me as well.


----------



## jimzilla

Light old radium.


----------



## pump 19

Kotsov said:


> A nuclear sub?


----------



## AlekseiIud

I like the way green lume looks on the render altho I also understand that in reality it may look the opposite way and light old radium probably would be preferrable...so...ummm haha maybe Im for the light old radium too not a big deal for me anyway


----------



## lqqker

Option B for me


----------



## Trompetas del Infierno

I like B, dark


----------



## Uros TSI

Variant B for me. 

Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk


----------



## starjay

Ivory also.


----------



## haejuk

Light old radium all the way. I have sold off every watch I had with C3 lume because of that slightly sick green tone it has. It looks bad on every dial I have seen it on.


----------



## Confuse-a-cat

Happy to stick with the majority in regard to the lume, both look good to me.

Can I bring up something for people to think about.

The big big problem (as we all know) with the bezels are their position, with the abuse they have to take with scratching etc... The one thing I don't want with this watch is to fear easily damaging it. I have the last nvch 30, and the bezel definitely looks the worst for wear.

What about an option to buy extras or a spare with the watch?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Confuse-a-cat said:


> Happy to stick with the majority in regard to the lume, both look good to me.
> 
> Can I bring up something for people to think about.
> 
> The big big problem (as we all know) with the bezels are their position, with the abuse they have to take with scratching etc... The one thing I don't want with this watch is to fear easily damaging it. I have the last nvch 30, and the bezel definitely looks the worst for wear.
> 
> What about an option to buy extras or a spare with the watch?


I'll ask Meranom about it  (but wouldn't hold my breath: on previous projects they weren't willing to accommodate having extra parts or preparing different "packages" for a few of us as it would create logistical challenges).


----------



## tresenraya

Light Old Radium for me.


----------



## triads

I'm in! Do I sign up anywhere else to join this?
And my vote goes for Old Radium Lume, and also the NVCH 30 (Wire lugs option) as I'm not a fan of the swing lugs design


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

triads said:


> I'm in! Do I sign up anywhere else to join this?
> And my vote goes for Old Radium Lume


At this stage we're establishing that there's enough support for the project to make it official.

So, just vote on the thread's poll (if you're using Tapatalk you'll need to be in browser view to see it) and keep active in the discussion here! 

Once we move to official status we'll publish a registration form and list


----------



## peredwishnoy

I'm in! No matter which version.


----------



## iomran

Old Radium for me


----------



## Miguelillo

New lume for a new watch for me.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hi guys: I think Light Old Radium will be the way forward!

*__*

So, a small update about the conflict between the square dial graphics and the rounded lume application.

I was in touch with Dmitry from Meranom and the supplier:

. Considering how the lume has such an importance in the NVCh-30 dial design, they believe we should round the edges of the graphics with a 0.2mm radius. That would be the best compromise between the straight graphics and the roundness of a well-applied lume and produce an overall image, using today's techniques, in tune with the original design.

. For the Type 350, considering its dial design is more dependant on the graphics (often being left exposed), it would keep the original design.

Here's a preview of the change:

















It seems to be a sensible and balanced compromise and I think I'll be following it.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Let's see if we can squeeze a question before Christmas 

About the strap: I think a nylon strap would be the natural solution for the NVCh-30, but I feel a NATO wouldn't be proper for an old soviet watch.
Even more with this particular watch, as one of its most unique characteristics (the wire lugs) loose some of its protagonism when "lost" among the NATO's metal keepers.

So, a single pass strap would be more period correct and also more interesting for the design. The problem with single pass straps, though, is that the watch can slide down the strap to the floor, and that's not a good feeling 

So I propose a fold in the strap where to rest the top wire lug (as some early military straps did): this would both keep the watch in place and maintain a "clean" single pass strap design.

For the color, it would be interesting to match the lume color (that should be close to a "sand khaki" color): it really seems to make the dial pop!

Some of you suggested having a print on the strap, which I find an interesting possibility too, balancing the width of the strap and making the seconds hand participate more in the overal design too.










What are your thoughts on it?

Edit:
I'd also propose a "sliding" buckle (as used on perlon and other single pass straps) so that the strap can be easily resized (pertinent for those with larger or thinner than average wrists).


----------



## elsoldemayo

Agreed, the slight rounding looks closer to the original.

EDIT: Strap A is my preference.


----------



## starjay

I am fond of the "kitsch" printing on the nylon strap. Option B for me.


----------



## Miguelillo

Option B but in 2 pieces with screws.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Miguelillo said:


> Option B but in 2 pieces with screws.


Like an aviator strap?  That would be a bit awkward on a diver watch, no?


----------



## pump 19

I'm for the slightly rounded graphics. I like the pass through strap and the simpler version without the graphics. Maybe a bit of red but not a crawler style script running down the band.


----------



## Miguelillo

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Like an aviator strap?  That would be a bit awkward on a diver watch, no?


Yep


----------



## jimzilla

I'm for the rounded graphics as well and the
pass through strap with the Red graphics.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

(sorry)


----------



## Trompetas del Infierno

pump 19 said:


> I'm for the slightly rounded graphics. I like the pass through strap and the simpler version without the graphics. Maybe a bit of red but not a crawler style script running down the band.


Hey you, get out of muy head!!!
I think exactly the same.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Thanks, Miguel!


I am OK with the dial graphics solution proposed by Dmitry.
As for the strap... yes, a NATO would be ''unusual'' and a single strap would be... too dangerous... So, that ''folded'' strap seems to be just about right.. And .. I'm tempted to prefer the vintage printed one...


----------



## hoja_roja

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Let's see if we can squeeze a question before Christmas
> 
> About the strap: I think a nylon strap would be the natural solution for the NVCh-30, but I feel a NATO wouldn't be proper for an old soviet watch.
> Even more with this particular watch, as one of its most unique characteristics (the wire lugs) loose some of its protagonism when "lost" among the NATO's metal keepers.
> 
> So, a single pass strap would be more period correct and also more interesting for the design. The problem with single pass straps, though, is that the watch can slide down the strap to the floor, and that's not a good feeling
> 
> So I propose a fold in the strap where to rest the top wire lug (as some early military straps did): this would both keep the watch in place and maintain a "clean" single pass strap design.
> 
> For the color, it would be interesting to match the lume color (that should be close to a "sand khaki" color): it really seems to make the dial pop!
> 
> Some of you suggested having a print on the strap, which I find an interesting possibility too, balancing the width of the strap and making the seconds hand participate more in the overal design too.
> 
> View attachment 15610161
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts on it?
> 
> Edit:
> I'd also propose a "sliding" buckle (as used on perlon and other single pass straps) so that the strap can be easily resized (pertinent for those with larger or thinner than average wrists).


The option b for me!
besides look more like the industrial feeling, we are looking too!


----------



## justarussian

in our Army for inscriptions use a special font, can be use it? if win option to the inscription.


----------



## haejuk

The rounded edges on the numbers look good.
I would be perfectly happy with a normal single pass strap with or without the writing on it. I'll take whatever strap it comes with though.


----------



## OCSleeper

My preference is for Option A for the strap, although I could possibly be convinced to go with Option B with some modifications to the print size, font, and location. If affordable and agreeable, both a printed and plain strap would be the best solution. As for the dial, I definitely prefer Meranoms advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## t3tan3k

Rounded corners for sure! 

As for the strap, red text is an interesting addition (though in my opinion, only if it's stitched and not painted on), but I think that specifically "НВЧ-30" is a bit redundant, and that maybe something more abstract like a string of numbers like a date or coordinates or something - and in smaller character height would look more at home here...


----------



## tokareva

Well obviously I like the rounded edges and prefer strap option B with the printing, but it would be nice to explore the special military font. It seems like both straps could be offered, plain and printed.


----------



## Laikatenka

t3tan3k said:


> Rounded corners for sure!
> 
> As for the strap, red text is an interesting addition (though in my opinion, only if it's stitched and not painted on), but I think that specifically "НВЧ-30" is a bit redundant, and that maybe something more abstract like a string of numbers like a date or coordinates or something - and in smaller character height would look more at home here...





justarussian said:


> in our Army for inscriptions use a special font, can be use it? if win option to the inscription.
> View attachment 15610584


I will go for the b option, as well the use of the same font in Cirilic is a fantastic Idea!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Thanks for your thoughts, guys: keep them coming! 

(Just taking the chance to explain the font choice: it's the same as used on the caseback, and the most similar one to the font used on the metal boxes the original NVCh-30s came. It's early to think of it, but I'd love to explore the idea of remaking the original metal box too  so, the idea was to have the font consistent throughout the box, the strap and the caseback.)


----------



## MattBrace

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Thanks for your thoughts, guys: keep them coming!
> 
> (Just taking the chance to explain the font choice: it's the same as used on the caseback, and the most similar one to the font used on the metal boxes the original NVCh-30s came. It's early to think of it, but I'd love to explore the idea of remaking the original metal box too  so, the idea was to have the font consistent throughout the box, the strap and the caseback.)


If you would like some pictures of the original straps used then let me know.

Cheers...


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

MattBrace said:


> If you would like some pictures of the original straps used then let me know.
> 
> Cheers...


I would like those pictures, please!


----------



## Kotsov

Rounded and A for the strap please.


----------



## starjay

MattBrace said:


> If you would like some pictures of the original straps used then let me know.
> 
> Cheers...


Yes, please.


----------



## Kotsov

starjay said:


> Yes, please.


+1


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> If you would like some pictures of the original straps used then let me know.
> 
> Cheers...


I would love that, Matt!!  Thank you!

(Is it established they were original to the NVCh-30? The NOS examples I was able to find -online- seem to all have come without a strap.)


----------



## MattBrace

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I would love that, Matt!!  Thank you!
> 
> (Is it established they were original to the NVCh-30? The NOS examples I was able to find -online- seem to all have come without a strap.)


3 types of strap were used, these were also commonly found on depth gauges as well. Here's some pictures from my on-line guide, I do have more.

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Thank you so much, Matt: that’s super cool!

Love the green one: I’ve only seen it on yours, but I’ve seen it a few times on Zlatousts and it’s beautiful!


----------



## MattBrace

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Thank you so much, Matt: that's super cool!
> 
> Love the green one: I've only seen it on yours, but I've seen it a few times on Zlatousts and it's beautiful!


The Zlatoust strap is actually rubber and canvas, the green strap on my NVCh is nylon I also have two white nylon examples used on NVCh watches.

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> The Zlatoust strap is actually rubber and canvas, the green strap on my NVCh is nylon I also have two white nylon examples used on NVCh watches.
> 
> Cheers...


Thank you so much again, Matt


----------



## MattBrace

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Thank you so much again, Matt


No problem, if your looking to replicate the steel storage tin I'm happy to take detailed pictures for you and dimensions.

Cheers...


----------



## Kotsov

The zlatoust rubber and canvas strap is minging. Lets not go there...


----------



## Kotsov

MattBrace said:


> No problem, if your looking to replicate the steel storage tin I'm happy to take detailed pictures for you and dimensions.
> 
> Cheers...


Thats not a bad idea at all


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> No problem, if your looking to replicate the steel storage tin I'm happy to take detailed pictures for you and dimensions.
> 
> Cheers...


Yes, that possibility really excites me, it will be up to the cost, though!


----------



## Kotsov

It looks a decent quality stamping. Not a cheap bean tin effort.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Kotsov said:


> It looks a decent quality stamping. Not a cheap bean tin effort.


It does!


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It does!


It would be a practical storage option if we were using a single pass strap....


----------



## jimzilla

It would be a very cool watch tin!


----------



## t3tan3k

My guess is that that the tin may have been made something like this only on a manual lathe ) All that's needed is a blank/mandrel as opposed to die and anvil for conventional stamping which is much more expensive


----------



## lqqker

I would like to give Miguel a big shout out for his renderings, as a picture is worth a thousand words. As for the strap options, I like both and would be happy with either. If both are not an option, then maybe a compromise could be a subtle use of red with the stitching around the fold or other areas of the strap?


----------



## pump 19

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I would love that, Matt!!  Thank you!


Me too. Thanks Matt.


----------



## jimzilla

t3tan3k said:


> My guess is that that the tin may have been made something like this only on a manual lathe ) All that's needed is the blank/mandrel as opposed to die and anvil for conventional stamping which is much more expensive


I liked the sausage funnel the best!!!


----------



## jimzilla

I would also like to give Miguel Fazendas ⭐⭐⭐MEGA KUDOS⭐⭐⭐ for all his hard work spearheading this project, making the process smooth and easy for us. When I heard this was a project of Miguel's I was on board, I remembered the excellent job he and Sullivanjt did on the Compressor project, smoothest watch project I have ever been involved in.
So thank you Miguel I really appreciate what your doing to bring back a classic timepiece to all of us and I wish you and your family a happy Holiday Season, James


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

lqqker said:


> I would like to give Miguel a big shout out for his renderings, as a picture is worth a thousand words. As for the strap options, I like both and would be happy with either. If both are not an option, then maybe a compromise could be a subtle use of red with the stitching around the fold or other areas of the strap?





jimzilla said:


> I would also like to give Miguel Fazendas MEGA KUDOS for all his hard work spearheading this project, making the process smooth and easy for us. When I heard this was a project of Miguel's I was on board, I remembered the excellent job he and Sullivanjt did on the Compressor project, smoothest watch project I have ever been involved in.
> So thank you Miguel I really appreciate what your doing to bring back a classic timepiece to all of us and I wish you and your family a happy Holiday Season, James


Cheers, guys!!


----------



## haejuk

I can't read the page from the online guide, but is it showing a single pass strap with a bund pad?


----------



## werewolf0001

Old radium will be great


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

haejuk said:


> I can't read the page from the online guide, but is it showing a single pass strap with a bund pad?


It looks like that, yes, in a different material


----------



## MattBrace

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It looks like that, yes, in a different material


It's a flexible plastic pad as used with this depth gauge as well.

Cheers...

























Vostok NVCh-30 History & Reference Guide


The following Guide has been compiled to amalgamate all current information regarding the НВЧ-30. It also includes my findings over many years of collecting and researching these watches. As much information as possible has been




vintagewatchinc.com


----------



## Millones

Have you already decided about the strap? IMO is better with the red letters. Is there anything better than red letters in a soviet watch?


----------



## Bostok

Old radium and strap without writing for me, glad the project is going in the right direction and taking form, keep it on!


----------



## triads

Option B for me. It's easy enough to buy your own beige/tan strap but you don't usually come across straps with Cyrillic text sonit definitely makes it more unique and adds to the story of the watch. Hopefully the words will have some significance to the watch to tie it both together.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

triads said:


> Option B for me. It's easy enough to buy your own beige/tan strap but you don't usually come across straps with Cyrillic text sonit definitely makes it more unique and adds to the story of the watch. Hopefully the words will have some significance to the watch to tie it both together.


Indeed, it's the original watch's official name: Наручные Водолазные Часы 30 > НВЧ-30 (NVCh-30 in Latin characters, as we best know it)!


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

How cool is that? 😎


----------



## jimzilla

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Just playing around, nothing serious.
> (Red seconds hand; thicker NVCh-30 crystal; printed strap.)


I think this is a very handsome design and blends very well. I would wear that bad boy!!!


----------



## iomran

Rounded corners for sure! 
And straps - B


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Ok, guys: I think the responses to the strap question stabilized.

The opinions were a bit more divided on this matter than on the previous ones (about 60/40) but favoring the printed strap.

As Triads mentioned before, though the watch looks great with a plain strap too, those are indeed readily available. On the other hand, there won't be (pragmatically) another opportunity to get a custom printed "НВЧ-30" strap unless we include it in the project!

So, even if the votes were a bit more divided, it makes sense to go in that direction: it's a good compromise!

*__*

In a few days we'll start discussing the Type 350. 

In the meantime, here's my early Christmas gift!










Happy Holidays!!


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Such a wonderful gift! So nice of you, Miguel...

Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and all the comrades here!


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

Indeed; 

Feliz natal a todos os camaradas


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Ok, guys: I think the responses to the strap question stabilized.
> 
> The opinions were a bit more divided on this matter than on the previous ones (about 60/40) but favoring the printed strap.
> 
> As Triads mentioned before, though the watch looks great with a plain strap too, those are indeed readily available. On the other hand, there won't be (pragmatically) another opportunity to get a custom printed "НВЧ-30" strap unless we include it in the project!
> 
> So, even if the votes were a bit more divided, it makes sense to go in that direction: it's a good compromise!
> 
> *__*
> 
> In a few days we'll start discussing the Type 350.
> 
> In the meantime, here's my early Christmas gift!
> 
> View attachment 15613589
> 
> 
> Happy Holidays!!


It's not what I chose but I think it's the right decision


----------



## Millones

Looks gorgeous! Awesome.

Merry Christmas guys!


----------



## tokareva

It's going to be a real beauty, Happy Festivus! 😂


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Merry Christmas, everyone!


----------



## iomran

Merry Christmas, Friends!


----------



## M26

Merry Christmas


----------



## jimzilla

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year Comrades. 🎅


----------



## Utva_56

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Ok, guys: I think the responses to the strap question stabilized.
> 
> The opinions were a bit more divided on this matter than on the previous ones (about 60/40) but favoring the printed strap.
> 
> As Triads mentioned before, though the watch looks great with a plain strap too, those are indeed readily available. On the other hand, there won't be (pragmatically) another opportunity to get a custom printed "НВЧ-30" strap unless we include it in the project!
> 
> So, even if the votes were a bit more divided, it makes sense to go in that direction: it's a good compromise!
> 
> *[email protected],
> Maybe buckle with "B" logo.
> Season Greetings*
> 
> In a few days we'll start discussing the Type 350.
> 
> In the meantime, here's my early Christmas gift!
> 
> View attachment 15613589
> 
> 
> Happy Holidays!!


----------



## runningzombie

Looks amazing. Will the lugs allow for a metal bracelet?


----------



## AlekseiIud

Belated Merry Christmas to all of you! Im for the rounded numerals and marks on the dial and option A clean strap! 🙏


----------



## 0elcid0

Feliz Navidad


----------



## dreamer_rus

Merry christmas to all! 
How can I become a member of this project? 

I'm using Yandex. translate.


----------



## pump 19

dreamer_rus said:


> Merry christmas to all!
> How can I become a member of this project?
> 
> I'm using Yandex. translate.


Please vote yes in the poll on page 1. First step is to gather enough yes votes that it gains approval from forum authorities.


----------



## dreamer_rus

I voted yet!


----------



## lorroberty

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Let's see if we can squeeze a question before Christmas
> 
> About the strap: I think a nylon strap would be the natural solution for the NVCh-30, but I feel a NATO wouldn't be proper for an old soviet watch.
> Even more with this particular watch, as one of its most unique characteristics (the wire lugs) loose some of its protagonism when "lost" among the NATO's metal keepers.
> 
> So, a single pass strap would be more period correct and also more interesting for the design. The problem with single pass straps, though, is that the watch can slide down the strap to the floor, and that's not a good feeling
> 
> So I propose a fold in the strap where to rest the top wire lug (as some early military straps did): this would both keep the watch in place and maintain a "clean" single pass strap design.
> 
> For the color, it would be interesting to match the lume color (that should be close to a "sand khaki" color): it really seems to make the dial pop!
> 
> Some of you suggested having a print on the strap, which I find an interesting possibility too, balancing the width of the strap and making the seconds hand participate more in the overal design too.
> 
> View attachment 15610161
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts on it?
> 
> Edit:
> I'd also propose a "sliding" buckle (as used on perlon and other single pass straps) so that the strap can be easily resized (pertinent for those with larger or thinner than average wrists).


sorry for absence. Strap B would have been my favorite


----------



## starjay

Looks great 
Boas festas Miguel.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

runningzombie said:


> Looks amazing. Will the lugs allow for a metal bracelet?


I don't think the wire/ear lugs will allow it (unless one can imagine a very unconventional setup) but the swing lugs will accept any standard strap, band or bracelet


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hope everyone had a great Christmas!

Are you ready to discuss the Type 350 version? 


















(Still battling with the lume modeling and with finding the best light and cameras.)

My approach to the 350 was quite straight forward: I gathered the results of the NVCh-30 discussion and adapted them to the Type 350.
So, we have a stainless "tension ring", red seconds hand, cream lume.

Having said that, here are a few differences:


As with the NVCh-30, the dial graphics are directly scanned from an original Type 350;
This 350 has a sunburst dial, as in the original;
Small lume dot seconds hand version, as in the earliest originals!

What do you guys think?

(I suspect the 350 group will be a minority here, so it's easy for their voice to be drowned. Maybe those of us whose primary interest is the NVCh-30 could try to give some space for their voices: for instance, when commenting, begin by stating something like "I'm mainly interested in the NVCh-30, but..." or any equivalent phrasing. This will help me read the context better. And for those whose main interest is the Type 350: let's hear you!)

Cheers!!


----------



## palletwheel

I'm only interested in a Type 350, and at that as close to the original as possible when new, given the contemporary pieces at hand. So I'm not for the cream lume, any stitching on the strap. And as for the crystal, we'd really need to check with Meranom if they can reliably nail the close tolerances the current design calls for the hands given the use of a convex crystal, which is mainly my concern about it. Since at this point we discussed colors, lume, stitching, and so on, I would suggest at this point we also have everyone chime in about the crystal, which is among the most important.


----------



## rcapiloto

Good evening Comrades,

As Miguel suggested I will start with an equivalent phrasing...

I'm mainly interested in the Type 350, so I can only state that I fully agree with the design cues stated by Miguel: a watch with its own characteristics but sharing many more with its younger brother.

Thank you all for the effort to make this project happen.

Saludos!

R.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

palletwheel said:


> I'm only interested in a Type 350, and at that as close to the original as possible when new, given the contemporary pieces at hand. So I'm not for the cream lume, any stitching on the strap. And as for the crystal, we'd really need to check with Meranom if they can reliably nail the close tolerances the current design calls for the hands given the use of a convex crystal, which is mainly my concern about it. Since at this point we discussed colors, lume, stitching, and so on, I would suggest at this point we also have everyone chime in about the crystal, which is among the most important.


Yes, the crystal integration is central for this design and I'll be working with Meranom directly on the technical drawings with the purpose of reaching the integrated design of the original.

(I'd even risk saying there's really no discussion to be had in that regard: I think we all want that perfect continuous arc between bezel and crystal.)

(About the strap, I don't think we need to repeat the same formula as on the NVCh-30: that one is a response to the NVCh-30 particular characteristics, its lugs design and military roots. Doing it again with the Type 350 would be a bit out of sync with its own character and I feel would banalize the NVCh-30 design. While the swing lugs will receive any conventional/available strap, I think there's an opportunity to do something more interesting with the 350 -specially if taking advantage of the lower costs that the suppliers can provide us. It will probably be the next discussion.)


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

rcapiloto said:


> Good evening Comrades,
> 
> As Miguel suggested I will start with an equivalent phrasing...
> 
> I'm mainly interested in the Type 350, so I can only state that I fully agree with the design cues stated by Miguel: a watch with its own characteristics but sharing many more with its younger brother.
> 
> Thank you all for the effort to make this project happen.
> 
> Saludos!
> 
> R.


Cheers!


----------



## Arizone

As I had once owned a type 350 with the rare Cyrillic dial I only wish to share one of my photos to compare with. Note that the chrome on the bezel had worn away. Also, as I mentioned earlier, this could be another example of such transparent paint being used on the seconds hand. You can see it faded less underneath where the lume dot had crumbled away, while the rest of the hand is now more alike rose gold, compared to other Vostok hands that fade into a more orange or brownish hue but remaining opaque. Not sure if Meranom got back on if such transparency is possible, but hopefully this is helpful to others.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Mainly interested in... BOTH! (so far as my wallet helps me...).

And, as stated above, yet being an ignorant as I am, I agree with the general lines. Thanks again, Miguel for your effort...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Arizone said:


> As I had once owned a type 350 with the rare Cyrillic dial I only wish to share one of my photos to compare with. Note that the chrome on the bezel had worn away. Also, as I mentioned earlier, this could be another example of such transparent paint being used on the seconds hand. You can see it faded less underneath where the lume dot had crumbled away, while the rest of the hand is now more alike rose gold, compared to other Vostok hands that fade into a more orange or brownish hue but remaining opaque. Not sure if Meranom got back on if such transparency is possible, but hopefully this is helpful to others.
> 
> View attachment 15622026


Hello Arizone: what a beautiful one!
I'm afraid I'm yet to see anything that definitely establishes the "translucid ink" as correct for these watches, though...

Weathered paint on the seconds hands looks like that, so I can't take those weathered examples as evidence. (This paint is not flaking: the pigment is being consumed by the UV light. The less pigment survives, the more transparent it gets. It gets some transparency very fast, and leaves a tint when almost totally consumed.)

All NOS, 350 cased, examples in good original condition I've managed to find have the expected opaque Vostok paint (both with the regular lume dot and the small lume dot).

The only 2 examples we've seen where the hands, in good condition, show a metallic sheen that seems to indicate transparency were in NVCh-30s in 119 cases (and they had a suspicious purple color). I suspect that if they were indeed produced by Vostok, we'd have seen more of them: it would be more likely if they were faded hands repainted during a service or at a later stage.

So, the way I see it, the case for the transparent paint is weak. The known, unquestionable examples are a couple (against the overwhelming numbers of the opaque paint seconds hands) and rely on: the interpretation of weathered paint as evidence of others (which seems to be too big of an assumption for comfort and a bit of wishful thinking  ); on accepting them as completely original -against all the ones with opaque paint- without really being able to establish that in absolute; and on assuming that if they were the correct ones the 350 cased watches also had them.

Considering everything I feel there's no strong reason to pursue it or to believe the opaque Vostok paint wasn't what was originally in the hands of the 350 cased Vostoks, I'm afraid...


----------



## MattBrace

A NOS type 350 for reference.

Cheers...


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

MattBrace said:


> A NOS type 350 for reference.
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> View attachment 15622505
> View attachment 15622506
> View attachment 15622507
> View attachment 15622508


Just... wow.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> A NOS type 350 for reference.
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> View attachment 15622505
> View attachment 15622506
> View attachment 15622507
> View attachment 15622508


Breathtaking! (I think I'll try to match that seconds hand color!)


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Breathtaking! (I think I'll try to match that seconds hand color!)


Dial brushing is prominent too.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Kotsov said:


> Dial brushing is prominent too.


Indeed


----------



## Trompetas del Infierno

MattBrace said:


> A NOS type 350 for reference.
> 
> View attachment 15622505


ashtonishingly beautiful unit ?


----------



## Arizone

A couple more near-mint listings.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Arizone said:


> A couple more near-mint listings.
> 
> View attachment 15623541
> View attachment 15623542
> View attachment 15623543
> View attachment 15623544
> 
> 
> View attachment 15623545
> View attachment 15623546
> View attachment 15623548
> View attachment 15623549
> View attachment 15623550


Oooh, please, stop, you teaser!


----------



## tokareva

Well I was primarily interested in the NVCH-30 but after seeing all of the 350 watches I want one of those too.🤬

Could a few of the triangular markers be made slightly uneven to create a more hand applied look? it seems to somehow make the dial more interesting to look at.

I would also recommend rounding most of the markers edges.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Well I was primarily interested in the NVCH-30 but after seeing all of the 350 watches I want one of those too.
> 
> Could a few of the triangular markers be made slightly uneven to create a more hand applied look? it seems to somehow make the dial more interesting to look at.
> 
> I would also recommend rounding most of the markers edges.
> 
> View attachment 15624049


That would be the old discussion of reproducing mistakes, inconsistencies and technical limitations  That wasn't the original designers' intent.

This is a new watch, manufactured with contemporary techniques, materials and quality: we can honor the original designers' intentions better.

Though inconsistencies and technical limitations may have their charm, we have the original ones for that


----------



## pump 19

tokareva said:


> Well I was primarily interested in the NVCH-30 but after seeing all of the 350 watches I want one of those too.


Yep, me too.


----------



## elsoldemayo

As requested, I will declare here that the 350 doesn't interest me as I was lucky enough to find a pristine example a few years ago, however .... 
while I agree on not creating mistakes deliberately, I would agree that rounding the corners of the indices would make it more like the original and one of the key reasons people will sign up is because the original ones are unattainable for most.
With sharp corners you're effectively putting this dial in a 350 case.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

elsoldemayo said:


> As requested, I will declare here that the 350 doesn't interest me as I was lucky enough to find a pristine example a few years ago, however ....
> while I agree on not creating mistakes deliberately, I would agree that rounding the corners of the indices would make it more like the original and one of the key reasons people will sign up is because the original ones are unattainable for most.
> With sharp corners you're effectively putting this dial in a 350 case.
> View attachment 15624083












It's hardly the same dial (though they share a theme.)
And while NVCh-30s are quite unobtainable, the original 350s are not in the impossible realm.

When discussing rounding the graphics before, the suggestion was to round the NVCh-30 but not this one. The reasoning was that this design was more dependent on the graphics than the NVCh's, and the graphics were not rounded. I agree with them (and, considering we already used the "rounding" trick on the NVCh-30, I'm inclined to do this one more true to the graphics -which seems more in tune with this particular design- instead of doing the same thing twice).

Rounding would also make the dial look like this common "reproduction" one:










I really wouldn't want to make this association between our project and this dial (it would "cheapen" the perception our watch).

_Edit:_
Just to add that frequently, with this dial, the graphics' edges were left exposed, giving a more regular aspect to the dial than with the NVCh-30s.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Well, the reproduction one has a rounded triangle "back" but straight hour markers, so the similarity to it isn't much of an argument (if I can say so myself about my own argument).


----------



## t3tan3k

I'm interested primarily in the NVCh-30, but will consider also getting the 350 as well. I have 2 points to make

1. I would like to gauge interest in champagne vs black dial as both were produced at the time.
2. Cardinal indices just do not look right to me with sharp corners and would need to be rounded to have any hope of looking like an average vintage Toothy IMHO. I think that baton indices ideally would have full rounds, but having 50% rounds like was decided for NVCh could be a reasonable compromise.Clearly there is variance in how much of the printed outline is covered by Lume, but to me, the supposed NOS example shown by MattBrace is what this watch generally should look like - with much of the outline covered by the lume mass..


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> I'm interested primarily in the NVCh-30, but will consider also getting the 350 as well. I have 2 points to make
> 
> 1. I would like to gauge interest in champagne vs black dial as both were produced at the time.
> 2. Cardinal indices just do not look right to me with sharp corners and would need to be rounded to have any hope of looking like an average vintage Toothy IMHO. I think that baton indices ideally would have full rounds, but having 50% rounds like was decided for NVCh could be a reasonable compromise.Clearly there is variance in how much of the printed outline is covered by Lume, but to me, the supposed NOS example shown by MattBrace is what this watch generally should look like - with much of the outline covered by the lume mass..


I must say I disagree... While there are instances of lume inside the lines and outside the lines (many times due to reluming) it simply is up to the quality that the worker doing the luming can achieve, and "overluming" wasn't the goal. Overluming is not what the designers intended in any way, shape or form (and that intention is clear on what they designed).

For me, it's quite a sacrilege doing what we already did on the NVCh-30 (changing the original designer's work just because of what "we feel looks better" or "what looks right to me"... for my sensibility, as a designer, that's unforgivable). It's very sad what was lost by "melting" the pure, controlled and finely tuned geometry of the original design: it's offensive to the original designers' quality work, precision and attention to detail. (They were miles better than us.)

But, of course, this is a discussion we already had, we moved on, and we don't need to have it again.

I stated my position about the silver dial before, too: I'm not currently considering it as the market is flooded with reproductions of that particular dial and our projects' association with it is not desirable. (That dial could never have rounded graphics, though: the black outline has a crucial role in the design as it is.)

*__*

Now talking to everyone: though I believe it's very important that I keep a "curator" approach to the project (to prevent it from crashing into a "design by committee" scenario that would produce not so good results) I still believe the process should be as inclusive as possible and I always try to compromise with all of what you guys bring forward.










On top, there's the graphics' design as directly scanned from an original dial.

On the bottom, a rounded version of the graphics. You may notice I didn't round the back of the triangular markers. There are two reasons for that:


It's, obviously, the opposite of the reproduction graphics, from which I want to distance our design;
The "base" of the triangle has a particular geometry that starts with the shape of the minute markers that would have been in those positions: I feel it's a design detail too special (with some obvious care and investment from the original designers) for us to lose it by rounding those corners.

What are you guys' thoughts?


----------



## tokareva

I think you've given a satisfactory explanation about the dial comrade Miguel, now I like the original one better than the one with rounded corners.


----------



## iomran

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I must say I disagree... While there are instances of lume inside the lines and outside the lines (many times due to reluming) it simply is up to the quality that the worker doing the luming can achieve, and "overluming" wasn't the goal. Overluming is not what the designers intended in any way, shape or form (and that intention is clear on what they designed).
> 
> For me, it's quite a sacrilege doing what we already did on the NVCh-30 (changing the original designer's work just because of what "we feel looks better" or "what looks right to me"... for my sensibility, as a designer, that's unforgivable). It's very sad what was lost by "melting" the pure, controlled and finely tuned geometry of the original design: it's offensive to the original designers' quality work, precision and attention to detail. (They were miles better than us.)
> 
> But, of course, this is a discussion we already had, we moved on, and we don't need to have it again.
> 
> I stated my position about the silver dial before, too: I'm not currently considering it as the market is flooded with reproductions of that particular dial and our projects' association with it is not desirable. (That dial could never have rounded graphics, though: the black outline has a crucial role in the design as it is.)
> 
> *__*
> 
> Now talking to everyone: though I believe it's very important that I keep a "curator" approach to the project (to prevent it from crashing into a "design by committee" scenario that would produce not so good results) I still believe the process should be as inclusive as possible and I always try to compromise with all of what you guys bring forward.
> 
> View attachment 15624612
> 
> 
> On top, there's the graphics' design as directly scanned from an original dial.
> 
> On the bottom, a rounded version of the graphics. You may notice I didn't round the back of the triangular markers. There are two reasons for that:
> 
> 
> It's, obviously, the opposite of the reproduction graphics, from which I want to distance our design;
> The "base" of the triangle has a particular geometry that starts with the shape of the minute markers that would have been in those positions: I feel it's a design detail too special (with some obvious care and investment from the original designers) for us to lose it by rounding those corners.
> 
> What are you guys' thoughts?


First design, without rounded corner. Definitely!


----------



## t3tan3k

Miguel Fazendas said:


> For me, it's quite a sacrilege doing what we already did on the NVCh-30 (changing the original designer's work just because of what "we feel looks better" or "what looks right to me"... for my sensibility, as a designer, that's unforgivable).


You can argue that, but I hold that this dial design was a done deal long before NVCh was even in planning stages - gold-plated hands and everything - and Vostok was simply doing what they could to replicate it without needing to develop the technical ability to produce sandwich architecture - as such what the dials wound up looking like was probably instructed as much by technologists as designers. My 2 cents.


----------



## Kotsov

iomran said:


> First design, without rounded corner. Definitely!


Ditto.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

tokareva said:


> I think you've given a satisfactory explanation about the dial comrade Miguel, now I like the original one better than the one with rounded corners.


This!

And...Miguel, can't we rethink this issue for the NVCh? I mean... getting back as close to the original dial as possible?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> You can argue that, but I hold that this dial design was a done deal long before NVCh was even in planning stages, and Vostok was simply doing what they could to replicate it without needing to develop the technical ability to produce sandwich architecture - as such what the watches wound up looking like was likely more instructed by technologists than designers. My 2 cents.


I have no doubt that the order and the objectives for the watches weren't established by the designers, of course, like with the example you brought. (Which has similar principles but it's not the same design at all.)

But after studying these and the compressor graphics to great depth, I can say without any doubt that they were not designed by technicians nor by "design hobbyists" but by very sophisticated designers that invested a lot in their work and on the most minute details.

From 1962 onwards in the URSS there was a central agency for industrial design (the All-Union Scientific Research Institute of Industrial Design) that had an number of huge design studios (with brilliant designers which massively influenced the art) that would work for the state owned industries (the only kind there was): that's why even the most modest match maker in an obscure corner of the Urals had a beautiful avant-garde matchbox design back then. 

In the 80s, though, it all fell apart (which is also so very obvious on the quality of soviet watch designs from that time onwards, with so rare exceptions).


----------



## t3tan3k

I appreciate that and agree with everything you just said, I just don't see a contradiction in them printing the outline with sharp corners because it was simpler, while also knowing and expecting that lume will be applied in rounded globs ))


----------



## Arizone

Miguel Fazendas said:


> For me, it's quite a sacrilege doing what we already did on the NVCh-30 (changing the original designer's work just because of what "we feel looks better" or "what looks right to me"... for my sensibility, as a designer, that's unforgivable).


After having suggested something as bold as replacing the tension ring with a gold one, it is interesting you hold such strong opinions in other areas. Obviously there should be some balance between what we can only merely guess as to the designer's original intentions, and what was actually produced and appreciated. In effect you'd be risking taking something like the Tower of Pisa and straightening it out, upsetting everyone but the original architects.

That said, I am not taking any position on how I would personally prefer the dial to look, the 350 is not my contention, and respect your position as curator.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Arizone said:


> After having suggested something as bold as replacing the tension ring with a gold one, it is interesting you hold such strong opinions in other areas. Obviously there should be some balance between what we can only merely guess as to the designer's original intentions, and what was actually produced and appreciated. In effect you'd be risking taking something like the Tower of Pisa and straightening it out, upsetting everyone but the original architects.
> 
> That said, I am not taking any position on how I would personally prefer the dial to look, the 350 is not my contention, and respect your position as curator.


That's true: there's a lot of complexity and contradiction in these matters and in myself 

They are, though, a fundamental part of my life (intervention in patrimony is an important part of what I do, and reconciling transformation/improvement with conservation/restoration). When we work with such objects, we identify the merits of a design and its shortcomings/deficits. We highlight/restore the merits and we use the shortcomings as an opportunity to improve/transform what needs to be improved/transformed so that the object remains relevant/performs into the future.

I don't know if that way of thinking translates well here (though that's all I've got) but the gold tension ring was an opportunity to fix a shortcoming (hands not matching case), while the dial design is a central merit of the watch that is perfect as is. That was my reasoning (I'm sure it's not universal).

(I don't think we have to guess the original design's intentions here, though: I feel it's sufficiently explicit by the way it was designed.)


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> I appreciate that and agree with everything you just said, I just don't see a contradiction in them printing the outline with sharp corners because it was simpler, while also knowing and expecting that lume will be applied in rounded globs ))


It's true, and it's also true that, since we are not using the same process, some kind of synthesis needs to be done between both.

It's as simple to print a straight line as it is a curve, though (the numerals are a good example of that): if the intention would be to integrate the roughly applied lume into the design, there would be no impediment for them to make the graphics round (nor would the most diligent lume appliers try so hard to follow the graphics).

(Lume and graphics aren't separate entities, and sometimes it feels like we are talking about them as if they were: the graphics are the guides for lume application as is always the case. They were designed to be followed by the lume.)


----------



## lorroberty

@Miguel Fazendas given the fact that the project will interest any sort of people you should put a clearer "panel" in the first page stating the differences between the NVCh-30 and the 350, so people won't get lost.

This said, I'm interested primarily in the NVCh-30, but I could consider also getting the 350 as well.

Regarding the dial am with Miguel regarding following the original project

ps I like the dial of the 350 more than the NVCh-30, but I prefer the flappy lugs! ...I could create a monster and cause a few of you to shock!

pps and I liked the golden tension ring and the golden second hand...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

lorroberty said:


> @Miguel Fazendas given the fact that the project will interest any sort of people you should put a clearer "panel" in the first page stating the differences between the NVCh-30 and the 350, so people won't get lost.
> 
> This said, I'm interested primarily in the NVCh-30, but I could consider also getting the 350 as well.
> 
> Regarding the dial am with Miguel regarding following the original project
> 
> ps I like the dial of the 350 more than the NVCh-30, but I prefer the flappy lugs! ...I could create a monster and cause a few of you to shock!
> 
> pps and I liked the golden tension ring and the golden second hand...


Edited the first post to include NVCh-30 and Type 350 images on the "current specs" section. 👍


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Have a great 2021, everyone!!


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Yeah, Happy New Year everyone!!


----------



## M26

Happy new year!!


----------



## jimzilla

Happy New Year and all the best in 2021 comrades!


----------



## Millones

Happy new year, guys!


----------



## triads

Happy New Year to all!


----------



## runningzombie

The two side by side makes me want both a lot.


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

runningzombie said:


> The two side by side makes me want both a lot.


Me too!


----------



## kip86

Hi guys,

first of all Happy New Year! and then to the topic: I great Idea! Great designs! Looking forward to buy them as soon as possible.
I just want to say I like the variant where the second hand is in the same material and colour as the other two and I have the Albino version the the 350 which I find very attractive.
Automatic version would be very handy too. It would make the watch perfect for everyday wear.

Here is a picture of my Albino 350 - blued sword hands and beautiful sunburst dial that matches perfectly the colour of the lume on the indexes:










Best,
Kiril Pavlov


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

kip86 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> first of all Happy New Year! and then to the topic: I great Idea! Great designs! Looking forward to buy them as soon as possible.
> I just want to say I like the variant where the second hand is in the same material and colour as the other two and I have the Albino version the the 350 which I find very attractive.
> Automatic version would be very handy too. It would make the watch perfect for everyday wear.
> 
> Here is a picture of my Albino 350 - blued sword hands and beautiful sunburst dial that matches perfectly the colour of the lume on the indexes:
> 
> View attachment 15631429
> 
> 
> Best,
> Kiril Pavlov


Welcome Kiril  I'm glad you like the idea!

I'd like to invite you to read the first post of the thread (it sums up how the project is developing and get up to speed) and, if you have the time, you can check the rest of the thread to see how the discussions went. 

And, of course, leave your vote on the poll!


----------



## Cernunos

Happy new year for all
Je suis un nouveau membre mais ancien dans les montres vostok
je voudrais être mis sur la liste pour ce projet (nvch) et peut-être pour 350 aussi.
Thanks a lot


----------



## Lindahl

Hi,
What a great idea. I am interested and would like to buy both versions when and if it will be possible. 
Regards
Andreas


----------



## Johanaxe66

I am in!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Cernunos said:


> Happy new year for all
> Je suis un nouveau membre mais ancien dans les montres vostok
> je voudrais être mis sur la liste pour ce projet (nvch) et peut-être pour 350 aussi.
> Thanks a lot





Lindahl said:


> Hi,
> What a great idea. I am interested and would like to buy both versions when and if it will be possible.
> Regards
> Andreas





Johanaxe66 said:


> I am in!


Welcome, guys!
Keep following the thread (and please vote on the poll): as soon as the registration list opens I'll keep everyone in the loop.

*__*

Hello everyone: I hope everyone's 2021 is starting off on the right foot!  Have a great year!

Let's see if we can finalize the general characteristics for the 350 version, so that we can have the first "project panels" made and send them together with the technical drawings to Dmitry to start with production considerations (that, I'm sure, will ask for further tweaks, but we'll get there).

One of the things I had in my mind since the beginning was what straps could best complement both designs and could take advantage of the opportunity to do something special.

The NVCh-30 one, considering its unique lugs and military origin, was quite straight forward.

The path for Type 350, on the other hand, was not so clear. Considering the watch's diving purpose, a nylon strap, a rubber strap or a metal band were our main possibilities.

So that we don't diminish the impact or banalize the NVCh-30's strap, I'd prefer not to repeat a nylon one with the 350, so that would leave us with a rubber strap or with a metal band.

I've had an idea since the start, but I'm not sure if it's popular  so I'll leave it to your consideration.

*__*

I've seen a couple of 350's with this kind of band, and I felt it worked very well and very period correct (so much that I sourced one for myself):










This is a Sealord, but Bonklip also did them, I've seen a few made in CCCP too, heard that some were being made in China at some point in time and, famously, JB Champion (acquiring the Forstner company that originally made them) supplied them to NASA for their space program, which took them to legendary status.

Right now, I think only Forstner is remaking them but they are relatively quite expensive.










These "NASA Komfit" straps are frequently seen with Omega Speedmaster watches, but they were also used with other "space watches", namely the Bulova Accutron and the Glycine Airman.


















When I see these, I can't help but think they are the American/Swiss Type 350s  (as the Vostok precedes them): they have very similar designs, and the space connection is also there:










The Type 350 was a space watch too!

*__*



















(I don't think the band modeling worked very well here, but it's just illustrative: the photos are a better exemplification of the band.)

So, what would you guys opinion be about trying to source (taking advantage of the lower costs of Dmitry's suppliers) our own "Komfit" for the 350?

Cheers!


----------



## pump 19

I know the metal band drew fire in the compressor project but I like this "komfit" idea. Looks at home on that speedmaster and I think it's a fit for the 350. Interested to see other suggestions along with the cost of this one.


----------



## pump 19

By the way, Is there a threshold number in the poll that triggers submission for approval?


----------



## Oldheritage

I like that idea, the space connection is nice as well.


----------



## mariomart

I've decided that if the project gets off the ground I'll be in for both models, plenty of time to save


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

pump 19 said:


> By the way, Is there a threshold number in the poll that triggers submission for approval?


I don't think so  I'll approach the moderators in the next few days to see what we should do.


----------



## Ligavesh

Metal bracelet looks great


----------



## jimzilla

I would be interested in both watches as well and as I said before I would like number 100 for both watches if 
they are numbered, and I like the bracelet as well!


----------



## Millones

Hey. This bracelet sounds great and looks better. A good idea, as usual...

Very interested in both models.


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Welcome, guys!
> Keep following the thread (and please vote on the poll): as soon as the registration list opens I'll keep everyone in the loop.
> 
> *__*
> 
> Hello everyone: I hope everyone's 2021 is starting off on the right foot!  Have a great year!
> 
> Let's see if we can finalize the general characteristics for the 350 version, so that we can have the first "project panels" made and send them together with the technical drawings to Dmitry to start with production considerations (that, I'm sure, will ask for further tweaks, but we'll get there).
> 
> One of the things I had in my mind since the beginning was what straps could best complement both designs and could take advantage of the opportunity to do something special.
> 
> The NVCh-30 one, considering its unique lugs and military origin, was quite straight forward.
> 
> The path for Type 350, on the other hand, was not so clear. Considering the watch's diving purpose, a nylon strap, a rubber strap or a metal band were our main possibilities.
> 
> So that we don't diminish the impact or banalize the NVCh-30's strap, I'd prefer not to repeat a nylon one with the 350, so that would leave us with a rubber strap or with a metal band.
> 
> I've had an idea since the start, but I'm not sure if it's popular  so I'll leave it to your consideration.
> 
> *__*
> 
> I've seen a couple of 350's with this kind of band, and I felt it worked very well and very period correct (so much that I sourced one for myself):
> 
> View attachment 15633933
> 
> 
> This is a Sealord, but Bonklip also did them, I've seen a few made in CCCP too, heard that some were being made in China at some point in time and, famously, JB Champion (acquiring the Forstner company that originally made them) supplied them to NASA for their space program, which took them to legendary status.
> 
> Right now, I think only Forstner is remaking them but they are relatively quite expensive.
> 
> View attachment 15633977
> 
> 
> These "NASA Komfit" straps are frequently seen with Omega Speedmaster watches, but they were also used with other "space watches", namely the Bulova Accutron and the Glycine Airman.
> 
> View attachment 15633965
> 
> View attachment 15633964
> 
> 
> When I see these, I can't help but think they are the American/Swiss Type 350s  (as the Vostok precedes them): they have very similar designs, and the space connection is also there:
> 
> View attachment 15633966
> 
> 
> The Type 350 was a space watch too!
> 
> *__*
> 
> View attachment 15633978
> 
> 
> View attachment 15633984
> 
> 
> (I don't think the band modeling worked very well here, but it's just illustrative: the photos are a better exemplification of the band.)
> 
> So, what would you guys opinion be about trying to source (taking advantage of the lowers costs of Dmitry's suppliers) our own "Komfit" for the 350?
> 
> Cheers!


Perfect but make it high quality like the forstener one. Cheap ones are awful.


----------



## haejuk

I'm mostly interested in the NVCH30, but that bracelet makes me want to pick up the 350 as well. It is a wonderful idea and looks great.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

No metal bracelets for me, sorry... So... rubber, please!


----------



## jimzilla

I wonder if we did a group buy if we could get the Forstner Komfit at a discount ?
Also, do those bracelets come in different lengths?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

jimzilla said:


> I wonder if we did a group buy if we could get the Forstner Komfit at a discount ?
> Also, do those bracelets come in different lengths?


It could be a possibility, but I'm not sure if it would be the most pragmatic avenue  even if they cut the price to half (they won't) it would still be too salty. Maybe a better way would be to make a deal with those who manufacture them for Forstner! 

There are a few features on the Forstner's band, thought, that won't make sense for us, like the telescopic link for different lug widths: maybe we can save some cost by having something more in tune with the project. But we have to respect Meranom's ecosystem of suppliers too, of course.

(Forstner's Komfit come in two widths -16mm and 18mm- and two lengths -medium and long.)


----------



## Kotsov

It doesn't need to actually be a Forstner. Just look the same quality. Not Casio quality.


----------



## Kotsov

Its generally the clasp that looks awful.


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

I would be interested in the "Komfit" for the 350 - depending on price of course!


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

Oh, and I would be interested in both models too.


----------



## Count_Vlad

Congratulations Miguel ! I am in for both reissue models. The 350 bracelet is a good idea, but I could live without it.


----------



## jimzilla

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It could be a possibility, but I'm not sure if it would be the most pragmatic avenue  even if they cut the price to half (they won't) it would still be too salty. Maybe a better way would be to make a deal with those who manufacture them for Forstner!
> 
> There are a few features on the Forstner's band, thought, that won't make sense for us, like the telescopic link for different lug widths: maybe we can save some cost by having something more in tune with the project. But we have to respect Meranom's ecosystem of suppliers too, of course.
> 
> (Forstner's Komfit come in two widths -16mm and 18mm- and two lengths -medium and long.)


I like the way you think Miguel, go directly to the manufacture and have it made to our spec's!
Maybe we could get a custom engraving on the clasp as well?


----------



## Trompetas del Infierno

Komfit is cool


----------



## DocTone

I will go with NVCH. The 350 is not an option for me . .
The reason is the unholy 18mm strap only. IMHO this is not reasonable for a tool or dive watch (with given specs).
I tried several straps with my 420. With metal straps the watch feels always top heavy - no counterweight by tiny 18mm - saphir (like planned) , automatic (higher center point) is enforcing this. 
Don't know maybe is fine for no gravity space ..but on earth doesn't work. Here you have to draw the strap up to stopping the blood flow before fixed properly on wrist.

Beside this - historical correct or not - to connect such a tiny strap on a Speedmaster or Glycine looks not contemporary anymore.
Justmy2cents










Limpy watch 









Same strap on "old ministry" ....never would be a choice


----------



## hoja_roja

Are we ruling out the canvas strap with the legend on red? I was really fond of that one....


----------



## Ziofesta

I m very interesting for this project. For me a rubber strap.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

DocTone said:


> I will go with NVCH. The 350 is not an option for me . .
> The reason is the unholy 18mm strap only. IMHO this is not reasonable for a tool or dive watch (with given specs).
> I tried several straps with my 420. With metal straps the watch feels always top heavy - no counterweight by tiny 18mm - saphir (like planned) , automatic (higher center point) is enforcing this.
> Don't know maybe is fine for no gravity space ..but on earth doesn't work. Here you have to draw the strap up to stopping the blood flow before fixed properly on wrist.
> 
> Beside this - historical correct or not - to connect such a tiny strap on a Speedmaster or Glycine looks not contemporary anymore.
> Justmy2cents
> 
> View attachment 15635836
> 
> 
> Limpy watch
> View attachment 15635837
> 
> 
> Same strap on "old ministry" ....never would be a choice
> View attachment 15635838


I see your point, but we're not really trying to do a contemporary reinterpretation of the watch: we're trying to keep as close as possible to the original feel.  the NVCh-30, though, should be more in tune with your thoughts with the 22mm strap!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

hoja_roja said:


> Are we ruling out the canvas strap with the legend on red? I was really fond of that one....


Hello  The NVCh-30 still has the strap! This is for the Type 350 version only.


----------



## 0elcid0

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Welcome, guys!
> Keep following the thread (and please vote on the poll): as soon as the registration list opens I'll keep everyone in the loop.
> 
> *__*
> 
> Hello everyone: I hope everyone's 2021 is starting off on the right foot!  Have a great year!
> 
> Let's see if we can finalize the general characteristics for the 350 version, so that we can have the first "project panels" made and send them together with the technical drawings to Dmitry to start with production considerations (that, I'm sure, will ask for further tweaks, but we'll get there).
> 
> One of the things I had in my mind since the beginning was what straps could best complement both designs and could take advantage of the opportunity to do something special.
> 
> The NVCh-30 one, considering its unique lugs and military origin, was quite straight forward.
> 
> The path for Type 350, on the other hand, was not so clear. Considering the watch's diving purpose, a nylon strap, a rubber strap or a metal band were our main possibilities.
> 
> So that we don't diminish the impact or banalize the NVCh-30's strap, I'd prefer not to repeat a nylon one with the 350, so that would leave us with a rubber strap or with a metal band.
> 
> I've had an idea since the start, but I'm not sure if it's popular  so I'll leave it to your consideration.
> 
> *__*
> 
> I've seen a couple of 350's with this kind of band, and I felt it worked very well and very period correct (so much that I sourced one for myself):
> 
> View attachment 15633933
> 
> 
> This is a Sealord, but Bonklip also did them, I've seen a few made in CCCP too, heard that some were being made in China at some point in time and, famously, JB Champion (acquiring the Forstner company that originally made them) supplied them to NASA for their space program, which took them to legendary status.
> 
> Right now, I think only Forstner is remaking them but they are relatively quite expensive.
> 
> View attachment 15633977
> 
> 
> These "NASA Komfit" straps are frequently seen with Omega Speedmaster watches, but they were also used with other "space watches", namely the Bulova Accutron and the Glycine Airman.
> 
> View attachment 15633965
> 
> View attachment 15633964
> 
> 
> When I see these, I can't help but think they are the American/Swiss Type 350s  (as the Vostok precedes them): they have very similar designs, and the space connection is also there:
> 
> View attachment 15633966
> 
> 
> The Type 350 was a space watch too!
> 
> *__*
> 
> View attachment 15633978
> 
> 
> View attachment 15633984
> 
> 
> (I don't think the band modeling worked very well here, but it's just illustrative: the photos are a better exemplification of the band.)
> 
> So, what would you guys opinion be about trying to source (taking advantage of the lower costs of Dmitry's suppliers) our own "Komfit" for the 350?
> 
> Cheers!


I like this strap too much.


----------



## Ziofesta

Ziofesta said:


> I m very interesting for this project. For me a rubber strap.
> If possible number 019 for me


And I'm interesting for NVCh-30  watch 
Tanks


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hello guys: it was a nice surprise to see how well the Komfit-style band was received: I must say that I'm not a bracelet fan myself, but I felt this worked very well with the 350 too.

Some of us aren't fans of the Komfit, as is natural, but the 350's swing lugs -unlike the NVCh-30 wire lugs- will accept any conventional third-party strap, giving us plenty of options.

So we'll purse that avenue. 










Hopefully soon we'll close the 350's intended specs and move on to the next stage!
Cheers!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hello everyone!
As we move to finalize the main specs of the project, I wanted to leave a note on the caseback.

As happened with the Compressor project, to make both versions possible Dmitry would prefer that we didn't have serial numbers on the caseback, as that would create logistical difficulties for him.

Hence, I'm proposing a very simple caseback design, fully based on the original (text, font, layout, etc.):









As we did with the Compressor project, there's a background pattern under the "Amphibia" logo and the year of the project. Both have the purpose of differentiating our caseback from the original one, but also of preventing that our caseback could easily be used to "fake" an original one.


----------



## starjay

Looks great and excellent choice. I would prefer to have the series number engraved, but if it is not possible, no worries.


----------



## Millones

What do you think about putting any indication about this project on the caseback? "Watchuseek ed." or something like that in small letters. If it's difficult to put serial numbers this could be an idea in order to make a different product.


----------



## Cernunos

This simple caseback is great 
you are right when you work like the original


----------



## Dgalbala

That simple case los heat. 
As @Millones salid, muy be we could put some "remembering" of the project...


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Nice caseback, Miguel, thanks.

Btw, I too agree with @Millones proposal.

Seems we are a Spanish mob behind it...lol!


----------



## Bostok

Happy New Year in good health,
I would like to thank the organizer(s) for their continuous quality work and enthusiasm, as I already stated from the very start I'm very confident in this project and I renew my inscription for each variant in the actual form.
I was not a fan of the NCVh strap with red writing that was finally chosen but I personally think a Komfit style bracelet would fit the 350 quite right.
A simple original caseback I think it illustrates the very essence of the project and I would leave it exactly as proposed.
Either way I'm going on with the project and wait to be validated on the definitive list.
Actually I think that all that voted YES in the poll should be prioritary and included automatically in that list to avoid any omissions by error or individual timing (not every one is capable of following the evolution of the project every day and may miss an open inscription). It would also highly limit the presence of last moment inscriptions by speculators, etc. and assure that every early supporter/contributor doesn't miss his place.
Thank you in advance


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Bostok said:


> Happy New Year in good health,
> I would like to thank the organizer(s) for their continuous quality work and enthusiasm, as I already stated from the very start I'm very confident in this project and I renew my inscription for each variant in the actual form.
> I was not a fan of the NCVh strap with red writing that was finally chosen but I personally think a Komfit style bracelet would fit the 350 quite right.
> A simple original caseback I think it illustrates the very essence of the project and I would leave it exactly as proposed.
> Either way I'm going on with the project and wait to be validated on the definitive list.
> Actually I think that all that voted YES in the poll should be prioritary and included automatically in that list to avoid any omissions by error or individual timing (not every one is capable of following the evolution of the project every day and may miss an open inscription). It would also highly limit the presence of last moment inscriptions by speculators, etc. and assure that every early supporter/contributor doesn't miss his place.
> Thank you in advance


Hello Bostok: thank you and happy new year!

Unfortunately, the voters are anonymous, we don't have that information (and it would be a logistical nightmare to try and save registration spots at this time).

Once the registration lists are available I'll let everyone know, and the list will be populated by chronological order. As a reference, I think it took a couple of months for the Compressor list to reach the 300 registrations, so I believe everyone following the project will have the opportunity to register in time.

*_*



Millones said:


> What do you think about putting any indication about this project on the caseback? "Watchuseek ed." or something like that in small letters. If it's difficult to put serial numbers this could be an idea in order to make a different product.





Dgalbala said:


> That simple case los heat.
> As @Millones salid, muy be we could put some "remembering" of the project...





BRUICHLADICH said:


> Nice caseback, Miguel, thanks.
> 
> Btw, I too agree with @Millones proposal.
> 
> Seems we are a Spanish mob behind it...lol!


About having a WatchUSeek mention on the caseback, I'd rather avoid it  the reasoning is the same as we had on the Compressor:

On one hand, it would be very odd to have a "W" on the caseback (a letter that doesn't exist in the Cyrillic alphabet);

On the other, the viability of the project depends on it being open to others outside of the forums: if we didn't do that with the Compressor, for instance, I believe it would not have happened. To be honest, while having a Watchuseek branding on the watch is interesting for us, it may not be to everyone else (a bit like, for instance, a company branded watch: it may be interesting for employees of the company, but most of the other people wouldn't like it very much).

I believe it's more universal (and timeless) if it is simply a Vostok.


----------



## frenchtreasure

Glad to see the project is advancing so well.
I'm in for both watches.


----------



## iomran

Hi, guys!
1. I definitely participate in the project "NVCh-30".
2. Project "Type-350" is pretty to me. If there are no financial difficulties I am ready to participate.
3. I also support the bracelet "Komfit" for the projet "Type-350".
4. The presented case back is simple and great.


----------



## jimzilla

I agree with Miguel, I would rather not have a WatchUSeek mention on the case back and keep it as close to original as possible. I also agree with the logistics of not numbering the watches to make things simple for meranom .


----------



## Millones

Well, it was just an idea. But if the boss doesn't agree... let's continue.


----------



## DocTone

No number is better as any number. 
Insider know where the watch was born. 
Project should not stumple by the „300 hurdle“ driven by overdosed personalism.
So, I‘m fine with the proposal.


----------



## Kotsov

Plain caseback looks the business


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Millones said:


> Well, it was just an idea. But if the boss doesn't agree... let's continue.


Yup!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Ok guys: quick poll! 

Who among us is aiming to acquire an NVCh-30, a Type 350, or both?


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

What kind of question is that one?

Both, of course!


----------



## mariomart

Both


----------



## haha

NVCh-30


----------



## Shumik

Both !


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

Both


----------



## Millones

Both in my case. Obviously, it also depends on the price of the watches. BTW, do we know anything about the price?


----------



## Dgalbala

I think it was more or less 300$... so, in my case, I wont be able to get both. Only the NVCh


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Dgalbala said:


> I think it was more or less 300$... so, in my case, I wont be able to get both. Only the NVCh


I'm crossing my fingers I'll have saved enough money for the two of them.... Oh well...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

I’d like to hear everyone’s voice on this: it’s to figure out how many of each should be made


----------



## pump 19

I expect both but also curious about pricing.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

pump 19 said:


> I expect both but also curious about pricing.


The preliminary pricing Meranom estimated is of around roughly 300 usd


----------



## jimzilla

Both watches.


----------



## 0elcid0

Type 350 for me, I love both but can't buy all.


----------



## Dgalbala

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I'd like to hear everyone's voice on this: it's to figure out how many of each should be made


Could we make a list, don't you think?


----------



## pump 19

Miguel Fazendas said:


> The preliminary pricing Meranom estimated is of around roughly 300 usd


Okay, both.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Just the NVCh-30 for me


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

When I do a registration list I already need to have a sense of the proportion between versions we'll be ordering  that's why I'm asking here.


----------



## rcapiloto

Type 350 for me 

Enviado desde mi SM-A505FN mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Count_Vlad

BOTH watches, already stated that !


----------



## DocTone

NVCh anyway 
350 not decided yet


----------



## Dgalbala

NVCh for me


----------



## lqqker

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Ok guys: quick poll!
> 
> Who among us is aiming to acquire an NVCh-30, a Type 350, or both?


Assuming the pricing for both of these are in the ballpark ($300+ USD) of the compressor project, I would be interested in both.


----------



## lorroberty

NVCh anyway 
350 not decided yet

I may like some 350 stuff in any case like the bracelet ..


----------



## Millones

Ok. If the price is around 300 $ each one, I would be interested in both models. Thx Miguel for your work.


----------



## Kotsov

Both


----------



## mariomart

Miguel Fazendas said:


> When I do a registration list I already need to have a sense of the proportion between versions we'll be ordering  that's why I'm asking here.


I think something like a 200/150 split for NVCh-30/350


----------



## Utva_56

NVCh-30 x 1.


----------



## OCSleeper

I’m in for both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sonics

Nvch-30 for sure 

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Arizone

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Ok guys: quick poll!
> 
> Who among us is aiming to acquire an NVCh-30, a Type 350, or both?


NVCh-30


----------



## justarussian

NVCh


----------



## Ziofesta

Both for me


----------



## hairythomas

Money permitting I will be in for the NVCh-30 only.


----------



## jimzilla

Just to clarify.... it is $300.00 for both watches not for each watch?
Thats a pretty good deal.


----------



## Millones

jimzilla said:


> Just to clarify.... it is $300.00 for both watches not for each watch?
> Thats a pretty good deal.


Sure? I understood 300$ each one


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

jimzilla said:


> Just to clarify.... it is $300.00 for both watches not for each watch?
> Thats a pretty good deal.


How would that be possible?


----------



## jimzilla

Thanks for your reply Millones, $300.00 for each watch was my origonal understanding.

Exactly Miguel


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Just a recall for everyone (as it's been asked a few times): the preliminary cost estimate was provided by Meranom early in the project, and the first post -which I've been updating with all the info of the project and its process- features that info since.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Well... $150 each would've been convenient...


----------



## Aborr

Hello, one Type 350 for me


----------



## starjay

Just the 350. Already on the list for oldfox’s.


----------



## Ligavesh

Hm, I guess I'm in for both - even though I'm on the Oldfox's list, too; they all come in a year, payment is in rates and I don't want to miss on a nice special project watch - if it turns out I don't like some of them, I think there's always a market to sell them for a decent price.


----------



## lollo1979

Question for the Project manager
Interested on 350.

When do you think it will be possible to register to the project?

Inviato dal mio SM-A505FN utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

lollo1979 said:


> Question for the Project manager
> Interested on 350.
> 
> When do you think it will be possible to register to the project?
> 
> Inviato dal mio SM-A505FN utilizzando Tapatalk


Soon


----------



## haejuk

NVCH for me. Debating picking up both, but I think I should stick to just one


----------



## Confuse-a-cat

I'm in for one at least , just don't know which as yet. 
Unless.of course one of you is happy to explain to "she who must be obeyed" that what she really needs is an extra job so I can possess both watches.


----------



## mariomart

Confuse-a-cat said:


> I'm in for one at least , just don't know which as yet.
> Unless.of course one of you is happy to explain to "she who must be obeyed" that what she really needs is an extra job so I can possess both watches.


Now is a perfect opportunity to open a separate Saver account with your bank, just allocate AUD$15 per week into said account and by the end of the year you will have the AUD$780 required for both watches   I'm sure your other half would have no objection to such a small weekly amount


----------



## AlekseiIud

Hello, I would go for both!


----------



## triads

I hope they can keep it below $300 if possible, but I'd really like it to have a sapphire crystal. It would be really cool to finally have a vostok with sapphire.


----------



## Kotsov

mariomart said:


> Now is a perfect opportunity to open a separate Saver account with your bank, just allocate AUD$15 per week into said account and by the end of the year you will have the AUD$780 required for both watches   I'm sure your other half would have no objection to such a small weekly amount


Is that another marital trade secret


----------



## mariomart

Kotsov said:


> Is that another marital trade secret


It certainly is 

If being married for 31 years has taught me one thing, it's to not have secrets. I always tell my better half exactly what I'm doing and what I have planned.


----------



## Shrek2

I’m in! NVCh-30 😍


----------



## OCSleeper

When it comes to my watch collecting I go with the train of thought that it's better to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission. By the time I get permission that good deal may be long gone .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## frenchtreasure

Already said it, but I'm in for both watches of course


----------



## Oldheritage

I was having a very hard time deciding between both of them. Then I realised I haven't bought a Vostok in a few years (not counting the upcoming 2020 compressor ) so I'd go for both.


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

Oldheritage said:


> Then I realised I haven't bought a Vostok in a few years


I've not bought a Vostok for at least 10 days!


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

AardnoldArrdvark said:


> I've not bought a Vostok for at least 10 days!


Same here. Unacceptable.


----------



## salyur

Hi, NVCh for me.


----------



## kip86

Both


----------



## Trompetas del Infierno

Type 350 at least.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hello everyone!

I've been silent for a couple of days as we were preparing to make the project an official forum project.
Unfortunately, we've just received the worst news.

Vostok reached out to Dmitry today stating that they would not grant this project oficial status: they decided to pursue the NVCh-30 project themselves.

This, of course, has ramifications that seem quite unsurmountable: our options would be to either make it without the Vostok brand or movement (which defeats one of the main aspects of the project), try to convince them to make our project part of theirs (not sure how or if there's any interest for that on their end), or to wait and see if they manage to actually go through with their project and where we may stand afterward.

I'm so sorry for this development, guys.
Maybe in the future the circumstances change enough so that we can revisit it.

(Here are the preliminary project boards, for future memory.)


----------



## lqqker

Wow, that is very disappointing.


----------



## mariomart

Oh no, all my "bits" just went limp ...

This probably means it will be closer to 2 years before we see a factory version, if at all


----------



## elsoldemayo

Disappointing but I guess we have to wait and see what they come up with. If it is as close to the original as we all hope then I'll be buying. If not, we can always thing about this project again.


----------



## Millones

Heartbreaking news. I was thrilled with this project and now... pff... I hope they change their mind.

Sorry for your hard work, Miguel. You didn't deserve this end.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Bummer!

Disappointing to say the least... Let's wait and see... It is a pity, especially considering Miguel's awesome work...

Well, we have the Compressor... for now...


----------



## DocTone

Miquel, 
Thx for your great entrepeneurship and leading. 
Dissapointing result - at the point when Vostok/Dimitry was in the boat serveral concerns raised in my backhead. 
For the moment all around the watchproducers filling new wine in old hoses, why not
here also...
The - years ago - presented 300 reissue was not an option for me.. an „Re-issued 300 reissue“ will be also not. So, to mod by myself a worned 350 will be a better option.


----------



## pump 19

DocTone said:


> Miquel,
> Thx for your great entrepeneurship and leading.


This...

Wonder how much work you saved them with your preliminary effort.


----------



## MattBrace

pump 19 said:


> This...
> 
> Wonder how much work you saved them with your preliminary effort.


I agree with the above, superb work from Miquel. So sorry your hard work has not yielded results.

Cheers...


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

pump 19 said:


> This...
> 
> Wonder how much work you saved them with your preliminary effort.


Agree.

Someone might think they may take advantage of it...


----------



## columela

It is a pity. Hopefully all the wok gone on this project will not be in vain


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## leastonh

Thank you Miguel for all the time and work you've put into this project.

It's disappointing they've pulled the plug. The timing of their decision to make this watch is an amazing coincidence! Not


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## AardnoldArrdvark

It's a disappointing end. Thank you Miguel for all the time and work you put into this project.


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## Count_Vlad

I am so sad about all this effort you've put in this project, Miguel. Brilliant work, anyway.


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## hoja_roja

Its mostly vostok management dont blame Dmitry, lets see if we can unblock some how the situation in the near future


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## Miguel Fazendas

Thank you for your kind words, everyone.

Yes, it’s unfortunate...

This wasn’t a Meranom issue: Dmitry has been very supportive of the project since the first days.

Between the preliminary talks (at the very beginning of the project, that established the production opportunity at the factory at the end of the year) and today, a lot has happened: the project went from an innocent idea to a very tangible watch.

I don’t have any doubt that the interest around the project (and Oldfox’s), its development and its potential had a role in their decision. And it’s their prerogative: it’s their brand and their heritage.

I’ll try to talk to them to see if there’s any way we can contribute to or be part of their project, but I don’t consider it a very viable possibility.

Let’s see if something changes in the future and hopefully we can revisit it again.

In the meantime, thank you for everything! It was a joy to work on the project with such a fine group of gentlemen: I’m sure we’ll do it again.


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## hoja_roja

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Thank you for your kind words, everyone.
> 
> Yes, it's unfortunate...
> 
> This wasn't a Meranom issue: Dmitry has been very supportive of the project since the first days.
> 
> Between the preliminary talks (at the very beginning of the project, that established the production opportunity at the factory at the end of the year) and today, a lot has happened: the project went from an innocent idea to a very tangible watch.
> 
> I don't have any doubt that the interest around the project (and Oldfox's), its development and its potential had a role in their decision. And it's their prerogative: it's their brand and their heritage.
> 
> I'll try to talk to them to see if there's any way we can contribute to or be part of their project, but I don't consider it a very viable possibility.
> 
> Let's see if something changes in the future and hopefully we can revisit it again.
> 
> In the meantime, thank you for everything! It was a joy to work on the project with such a fine group of gentlemen: I'm sure we'll do it again.


Its there any chance that at least be could do the strap by ourselfs? I mean with out the involvement of vostok of Dmitry? The strap is sooo cool


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## Kotsov

I lift my glass to Miguel.


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## jimzilla

Thank you Miguel for all of your effort you are a gentleman sir.


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## AlekseiIud

what a stab in the back! as someone have already mentioned here the timing they came up with all this is perfectly calculated...I feel ashamed but not surprised as on other projects something like this happened(Slava Sadko, reissue of rare poljot 3133project) when manufacturer suddenly start getting too protective about his particular item..i still remember the thread people on watch ru were discussing about nvch reissue by factory and someone even asked representatives about how soon it may happen and they got pretty clear that factory is not interested in manufacturing these particular watches and now...! what a sneaky move shame on vostok...now everyone joined oldfox`s project rise their concerns as well
I want to thank the topic starter Miguel from all my heart for amazing work, I enjoyed every discussion here
If vostok come up to release finally nvch I think they should at least send one watch set to the Miguel for free for he did all the work for them 
Thank you comrad!


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## triads

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I've been silent for a couple of days as we were preparing to make the project an official forum project.
> Unfortunately, we've just received the worst news.
> 
> Vostok reached out to Dmitry today stating that they would not grant this project oficial status: they decided to pursue the NVCh-30 project themselves.
> 
> This, of course, has ramifications that seem quite unsurmountable: our options would be to either make it without the Vostok brand or movement (which defeats one of the main aspects of the project), try to convince them to make our project part of theirs (not sure how or if there's any interest for that on their end), or to wait and see if they manage to actually go through with their project and where we may stand afterward.
> 
> I'm so sorry for this development, guys.
> Maybe in the future the circumstances change enough so that we can revisit it.
> 
> (Here are the preliminary project boards, for future memory.)
> View attachment 15649902
> View attachment 15649903


Oh wow... That's really unfortunate and a bit off-putting from them. But thank for the great effort Miguel, we were all very excited about this project.
And now it looks like it's going to be really tough getting a hold of one from Meranom when they do sell it since they run out of stock really quickly.


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## werewolf0001

I have a friend at the factory and I will try to find out what's the matter.


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## Ziofesta

Thanks Michel for all. It is a very beautiful project.
vostok's behavior did not please me


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## Ligavesh

triads said:


> Oh wow... That's really unfortunate and a bit off-putting from them. But thank for the great effort Miguel, we were all very excited about this project.
> And now it looks like it's going to be really tough getting a hold of one from Meranom when they do sell it since they run out of stock really quickly.


Gotta check out "Special Editions" every day, better 2-3 times a day


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## lorroberty

Thank you Miguel for all the work you put in it.
My interest now may shift toward the project of Oldfox, which could at least land a watch.
I am not sure how long would it take to Bostok to put out an entire new model. They would have been better off using our work to start the new line...


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## BRUICHLADICH

werewolf0001 said:


> I have a friend at the factory and I will try to find out what's the matter.


That would be great, thx!


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## Oldheritage

Bummer indeed...

Thanks for all the hard work Miguel, we'll see where this leads.


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## Trompetas del Infierno

Miguel, muito obrigado!!!!


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## iomran

Thank you Miguel for all of your effort.


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## MattBrace

Has the 2020 Vostok Compressor watch project also been cancelled, looks like that thread is now locked?

Cheers...


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## OCSleeper

After the recent developments of this venture I’m no longer holding my breath for the Compressor. My interest is there, of course, but until my money is sent off my hope has diminished.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> Has the 2020 Vostok Compressor watch project also been cancelled, looks like that thread is now locked?
> 
> Cheers...





OCSleeper said:


> After the recent developments of this venture I'm no longer holding my breath for the Compressor. My interest is there, of course, but until my money is sent off my hope has diminished.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Compressor project is ongoing and parts are being manufactured as we speak: there's no change (why would there be?).

The Compressor sub-forum threads seem to be perfectly normal to me. What do you guys see?


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## Miguel Fazendas

Thanks again for all your kind words, guys


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## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> The Compressor project is ongoing and parts are being manufactured as we speak: there's no change (why would there be?).
> 
> The Compressor sub-forum threads seem to be perfectly normal to me. What do you guys see?


Earlier it said "(cancelled)" ???


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## pump 19

tokareva said:


> Earlier it said "(cancelled)" 😵🤔😂


Sure did. 
Had me scratching my head as I recall manufacture was already underway.
Glad to hear it's still in business.


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## BRUICHLADICH

Can't see anything strange in that thread... Hmmmm...


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## MattBrace

The Compressor thread is now back to normal, most bizarre!?

Cheers...


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## BRUICHLADICH

MattBrace said:


> The Compressor thread is now back to normal, most bizarre!?
> 
> Cheers...


That is good news...


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## Miguel Fazendas

I think I have an idea of what may have happened  it may have been because this project was already approved as an official forum project: I was just waiting for the sub-forum to be setup to give you the news.

The technical support team was asked to do a new sub-forum for the project (which they did but, unfortunately, it went to the Chinese forum  ), then was asked to move it to the Russian forum (which they didn’t do before the news), then asked to cancel the project sub-forum (which they may have tried to do in the right place but with the wrong sub-forum).


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## MattBrace

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I think I have an idea of what may have happened  it may have been because this project was already approved as an official forum project: I was just waiting for the sub-forum to be setup to give you the news.
> 
> The technical support team was asked to do a new sub-forum for the project (which they did but, unfortunately, it went to the Chinese forum  ), then was asked to move it to the Russian forum (which they didn't do before the news), then asked to cancel the project sub-forum (which they may have tried to do in the right place but with the wrong sub-forum).


Makes sense, thanks for clearing it up.
Miguel.

Cheers...


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## Rimmed762

Damn. Even though I chose project 'oldfox' because idea of homage was more appealing to me, I have to say that you did wonderful job and I followed the enthusiasm that was put into project. I am very sorry that this ended like this.

Although I am happy that Vostok tries to revive its roots and bring some more heritage to its line-up. Classic line is very nice but there is a need for Heritage one also.


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## t3tan3k

it may be a productive use of time to see if Meranom can make an NVCh-30 without the Vostok symbol on the dial and just assemble the watches in China turn-key - like they do for Buyalov branded pieces, but with Vostok-sourced movements? Sadko project had a similar hiccup initially if i remember correctly and organizers there may have useful advice on how to proceed.


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## Miguel Fazendas

t3tan3k said:


> it may be a productive use of time to see if Meranom can make an NVCh-30 without the Vostok symbol on the dial and just assemble the watches in China turn-key - like they do for Buyalov branded pieces, but with Vostok-sourced movements? Sadko project had a similar hiccup initially if i remember correctly and organizers there may have useful advice on how to proceed.


They can, but both without the Vostok logo and without a Vostok movement. I'm not sure if the project would be pertinent if it's not a Vostok, though.


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## lorroberty

Miguel Fazendas said:


> They can, but both without the Vostok logo and without a Vostok movement. I'm not sure if the project would be pertinent if it's not a Vostok, though.


I sort of agree.
without a Vostok branding the project move closer to the one of Oldfox.


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## mariomart

I don't want a micro-brand style watch, for me it's Vostok or nothing.

@Miguel Fazendas you are still a legend in my eyes, Cheers


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## jimzilla

I think Vostok should put you on the payroll as a project manager or consultant Miguel, you have proven yourself on the compressor project....


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## Kotsov

Whoa! Hold on. You can't always get what you want.

Talent is difficult to suppress. What is your next best idea Miguel?


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## jimzilla

I am also curious Miguel, so what is next comrade?


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## Zany4

If it’s an official Vostok production project, it’s going to be overly expensive and hard to get like their anniversary editions and that sucks. Much respect to Miguel. Hopes are dashed for many.


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## mariomart

@Miguel Fazendas I've sent you a message. Cheers


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## Leocaprio DiNardo

Hello everyone! I've been reading the forum for a while but I haven't dared to create an account until today.

Miguel, what you are proposing sounds amazing and I would like to be part of the project! I’m in!!


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## Arizone

Leocaprio DiNardo said:


> Hello everyone! I've been reading the forum for a while but I haven't dared to create an account until today.
> 
> Miguel, what you are proposing sounds amazing and I would like to be part of the project! I'm in!!


You've picked a bad time, we're afraid, as Vostok has decided not to pursue this project with us, but will instead attempt their own reissue.


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## Leocaprio DiNardo

Arizone said:


> You've picked a bad time, we're afraid, as Vostok has decided not to pursue this project with us, but will instead attempt their own reissue.


Thanks for the info, well in that case, I will keep an eye on the project in case it can be resumed in the near future!


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## Rimmed762

I think that cancellation was because Vostok is making a reissue by themselves.

There are few choices now. Follow what Vostok is offering. Or a bit bigger reissue that is currently under planning by oldfox.


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## werewolf0001

I was talking to a friend from the factory. The plant is really already doing a reissue of NVCh with somebody from Moscow


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## BRUICHLADICH

werewolf0001 said:


> I was talking to a friend from the factory. The plant is really already doing a reissue of NVCh with somebody from Moscow


Good news... Or are they? lol...


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## Rimmed762

This another project (by oldfox) will be assembled by Vostok. Maybe it is that.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Yes... unfortunately they decided to change the nature of their project.


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## Rimmed762

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Yes... unfortunately they decided to change the nature of their project.


I thought both projects oldfoxes and yours started at the same time and were running at the same time. There was a set back in oldfoxes project but because most components are outsourced and it is more homage, Vostok will assemble these watches. But there was a moment of confusion. For some reason this project was stopped completely. I heard that Vostok will launch a remake by themselves.

Am I totally lost?


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## Miguel Fazendas

It was like you described: both projects started at the same time.

Oldfox and me discussed it at the time because it was so unfortunate, but ultimately the goals of the projects were deems to be so different that we felt they could both co-exist (we managed to be very courteous about the whole thing and even collaborated: I sent them our case measurements, for instance, and pointed people towards their project when it seemed like their project was closer to what people wanted, so the relationship between the projects was very nice).

The bigger dimensions, color schemes, sandwich dial and automatic movement on Oldfox’s, compared to our specs, made each project their own thing.

Unlike ours, Oldfox’s project was not meant to be a Vostok, though. That changed and, unfortunately, this was the result for us.

Dmitry understood that Vostok dismissed our project because they’d be doing their own version, but I believe it was just a misinterpretation by Dmitry of what they said: I believe now (as I gathered a bit more information) that it was Oldfox’s project they meant.

I’ve reached out to Vostok directly to clarify the situation but I received no answer.

Not the nicest thing to happen, I know, but, at least, me may try to wait that their project is done and see if Vostok would be open to do this one afterwards (which I suspect would be harder if Vostok came up with their own production nvch-30).

I don’t believe there was any malice: things sometimes just happen.


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## gak

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It was like you described: both projects started at the same time.
> 
> Oldfox and me discussed it at the time because it was so unfortunate, but ultimately the goals of the projects were deems to be so different that we felt they could both co-exist (we managed to be very courteous about the whole thing and even collaborated: I sent them our case measurements, for instance, and pointed people towards their project when it seemed like their project was closer to what people wanted, so the relationship between the projects was very nice).
> 
> The bigger dimensions, color schemes, sandwich dial and automatic movement on Oldfox's, compared to our specs, made each project their own thing.
> 
> Unlike ours, Oldfox's project was not meant to be a Vostok, though. That changed and, unfortunately, this was the result for us.
> 
> Dmitry understood that Vostok dismissed our project because they'd be doing their own version, but I believe it was just a misinterpretation by Dmitry of what they said: I believe now (as I gathered a bit more information) that it was Oldfox's project they meant.
> 
> I've reached out to Vostok directly to clarify the situation but I received no answer.
> 
> Not the nicest thing to happen, I know, but, at least, me may try to wait that their project is done and see if Vostok would be open to do this one afterwards (which I suspect would be harder if Vostok came up with their own production nvch-30).
> 
> I don't believe there was any malice: things sometimes just happen.


now this is sad news that Vostok's own would not be like this version.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rimmed762

Was the idea that every part would be made (or supplied) by Vostok?

For somehow, I can't see that assembly of few hundred pieces would be a problem for them. Oldfoxes project has, I think (please correct me if I am wrong), all other parts than movement outsourced and only assembly happens at Vostok.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Same for both projects: parts would come from external suppliers and the assembly of those parts (and their reunion with the Vostok movements) would be handled by Vostok.


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## Rimmed762

I just wonder why... 

I hope that if they make reissue of the watch they use at least same amount of time and thought to detail that you did. 

I wanted the homage which is a bit bigger but I followed this thread carefully and admired the effort you put into this project.

I hope that later this will happen. I truly do.


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## Chascomm

I guess the two project proposals caused Vostok to look more closely at the NVCh-30 and consider how this significant piece of their heritage might best serve the brand in the future. They chose the option that was more forward-looking and would likely have more appeal beyond the forums. It is hard to begrudge such a choice, and I hope it leads to more success for the brand.


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## Rimmed762

I guess no-one can blame Vostok if they make reissue that is true to original. And if they make the reissu, Miguel can always take credit for it. 😁


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