# The Zaratsu Journey?A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko?s Polishing Service [update 2/5]



## robattopper

*The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

One of the most distinguishing features of any Grand Seiko, and perhaps the most obvious element highlighting the brand's emphasis on fine craftsmanship, is the extremely fine finish on every high polish surface. Cases, bracelets, hands, and indices, are perfected with sharp edges, clear lines, and a distortion-free mirror finish by select craftsman with decades of experience in Seiko's unique Zaratsu (or "blade polishing") technique-a centuries old method of hand polishing elite Japanese fighting swords. These artisans are revered within Seiko for their ability to achieve immaculate polishing effects on watch components of all metals including, steel, gold, platinum, and even the difficult to highly polish, titanium. In fact, the art of performing Zaratsu is so precise and difficult to perform without exposing the metals to transforming heat; it cannot be replicated by machine.

Unfortunately, any watch under even the most attentive care can experience a scratch, ding, or other marring as a result of an accident or even normal wear at a desk. While many take the position that "life is a journey" and each scratch or mark on a watch tells a story or marks a moment in time, there is no doubt that some prefer to start that journey over, or simply remove the result of an accident. Others may take ownership of a pre-owned watch and want it to be pristine. In either case, it's good to know there are options for bringing the finish of a Grand Seiko back to near new condition.

In our discussions with Grand Seiko USA, we learned that in the United States market, sending a Grand Seiko back to Seiko USA, or to Seiko Japan for a refinish is a rare event. An associate at the Seiko Boutique on Madison Avenue told me he had yet to experience a client bringing a watch into the boutique specifically for a refinish. In this article, we are taking this process on as a challenge, and will explore the journey of a pre-worn Grand Seiko watch as it progresses through the various refinishing service options available to Grand Seiko owners.

In the next few days, we will be receiving a sample watch from Grand Seiko USA. This timepiece was used extensively for sales demonstration purposes and should have a considerable amount of surface scratches. When it arrives, we will photograph the watch with an emphasis on highlighting wear marks and any damage to polished surfaces. This will give us the perfect "before" picture to compare with as the watch progresses through its polishing services.

This multi-part article will chronicle our first collaborative project with Seiko USA, and will track this watch as it goes first to Seiko USA in Mahwah, NJ, and then ultimately to Seiko Japan to be refinished by a master technician. This thread will discuss the cost, quality of work, and repair time as we send the watch to each location. Note that while Grand Seiko polishing services are also available to watch owners as part of their normal maintenance service, we will focus on polishing as a stand-alone service.

Will this be 100% predictive of what every customer would experience? Probably not. As this is a coordinated effort between a dealer and the Luxury division of Seiko USA, there is a good chance it will be handled faster than a standard repair. Perhaps it should best be looked at as the fastest case scenario, but a learning exercise none the less.

Step 1-Sending the watch to Seiko USA

After we've photographed and observed the watch, the first step is to ship the watch to Mahwah, NJ, home of the Service Center of Seiko USA. While I do not have an exact quote for the cost of the refinish, we are told that the cost will be approximately $100. As Seiko will acknowledge, though the facility has skilled technicians, they do not have the infrastructure set up for Zaratsu level finishing. The plan is to make the watch as attractive as possible with the skill set currently available domestically. After the work is done, we will have observations of the level of finish by the Luxury division of Seiko USA and the staff (including our jeweler) here at Topper Fine Jewelers. We will then bring the watch back to Topper and photograph it. This should take a week or two.

Step 2-Sending the watch back to Japan (via Mahwah)

This will be the longer and, of course, more expensive step. We believe to have the watch refinished to the Zaratsu standard will be approximately four to six weeks and cost substantially more.

We hope you join us as the watch progresses and we look forward to providing updates as they become available.


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## Bighand

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Great idea. Looking forward to the results.


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## sea0bass

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Love the idea.


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## Heljestrand

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Superb Rob...a great idea for a before and after that could become very beneficial down the road for owners and would be owners.


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## Horoticus

Sounds like a fascinating project. Subscribed!


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## incontrol

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Great idea! Looking forward to the journey.


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## Mark355

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Great stuff. In for updates!


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## Zinzan

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Subscribed!


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## JohnnyT5

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

I'm in! one of my GS's has a few hairlines that are either story tellers or pains in the ass. Look forward to seeing how this trial progresses!


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## Laso1

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Lol, this I gotta see!

Looking forward to actually see the difference in the levels of the polishing from US vs Japan. Will there be pics from the different facilities?


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## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Should be an interesting study to see how each comes out. It would be cool if we could get a few photos as they finish the watch in Japan?


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## Nokie

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Great idea. Look forward to seeing this.

Thanks


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## tdk

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Do you know if they re-finish Ti watches? I remember reading that someone posted that they were told they don't refinish them.


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## manila07

I Want to see this!


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## Pride

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

This sounds like an exciting journey. Before and after?


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## ten13th

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

subscribed.


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## robattopper

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



Laso1 said:


> Lol, this I gotta see!
> 
> Looking forward to actually see the difference in the levels of the polishing from US vs Japan. Will there be pics from the different facilities?


That would be cool. We will see how it plays out.


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## robattopper

*Update 9/19-- Watch Photos before trip to Mahwah , NJ*

We have our watch that will be the subject of this thread. It will be the stainless steel $3,600 retail SBGA083

Here are some photos of the watch before it goes to Seiko U.S.A. for the refinish.


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## Gaczr7s

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Very much looking forward to this. Anyone have a good link for details on Zaratsu and Seiko? Most to the Google links don't really tell the full story and I'd love to know as I'm contemplating a GS for my next purchase.

Sent from my iPad using "Crapatalk"


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## Mark355

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Side bar--had no idea one could have a new SD for under $4k! That is some watch.


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## Bighand

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Any chance that there is an _objective_ method to determine which finish is more polished at the end of the test? In other words, some method other than the subjective it looks shinier to me.


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## robattopper

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



Bighand said:


> Any chance that there is an _objective_ method to determine which finish is more polished at the end of the test? In other words, some method other than the subjective it looks shinier to me.


Pointing out the inherent subjective nature of any judging is a really good observation. In our photography of the watch after the work is performed, we want to focus on how each facilities refinish work compares to a brand new Grand Seiko. Once we receive it back from Seiko USA, we will do a photo shoot where we can see both how successful the facility was in removing the scratches as well as comparing the polish and finish to a new Grand Seiko model in our case with the same case and bracelet. Then, after it's back from Japan it will be compared to the previous photo set and again against a brand new Grand Seiko.


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## Bighand

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Will be interesting to see. I was hoping for a more scientific objective basis, such as some device that measures light reflectivity from a surface. Another interesting comparison would be the Zaratsu polish, USA polishing, and a new Seiko Brightz watch, and Seiko SARB. In other words, a comparison of Seiko polishing across different price points with the GS polishes.


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## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



Bighand said:


> Will be interesting to see. I was hoping for a more scientific objective basis, such as some device that measures light reflectivity from a surface. Another interesting comparison would be the Zaratsu polish, USA polishing, and a new Seiko Brightz watch, and Seiko SARB. In other words, a comparison of Seiko polishing across different price points with the GS polishes.


Britghtz is a surface hardening to Ti to resist scratches, not the finish. The GS diver lists the Britghtz process being used on the watch which then has the Zaratsu finish.


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## Dkowl

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



samanator said:


> Britghtz is a surface hardening to Ti to resist scratches, not the finish. The GS diver lists the Britghtz process being used on the watch which then has the Zaratsu finish.


Isn't Brightz the Ti alloy mix while DiaShield the coating?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matt.wu

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



Bighand said:


> Will be interesting to see. I was hoping for a more scientific objective basis, such as some device that measures light reflectivity from a surface. Another interesting comparison would be the Zaratsu polish, USA polishing, and a new Seiko Brightz watch, and Seiko SARB. In other words, a comparison of Seiko polishing across different price points with the GS polishes.


Hm.. I think the scientific basis, though not objective, was the eye (and perception of the quality of the work).

Owning a few Grand Seikos, I'm not really interested about the light reflectivity of my watches. What I want to know if where I should be sending my watch when it needs refinishing, using cost as a consideration.


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## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



Dkowl said:


> Isn't Brightz the Ti alloy mix while DiaShield the coating?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Brightz was described as a hardening process, and that is the extent of what Seiko has said. There are serval urban legend posts that state all sorts of things about Brightz, but when vetted all that has been officially said was it is a hardening process for Ti...end of story. Never really looked into Diashield since it seems to not be used that much anymore. I had a Diashield watch and I don't believe it was a coating since it did not show any of the properties of a coating (chipping on an edge). From my experience it acted more like a surface hardening, but again this is a observation and nothing official. I have a question into Seiko about Hi-Intensity Ti that we are awaiting an answer on. I notice that some sites seem to universally use Brightz and Hi-Intensity as the same thing. That may be, but I will not comment until I have an official answer from Seiko.


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## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



matt.wu said:


> Hm.. I think the scientific basis, though not objective, was the eye (and perception of the quality of the work).
> 
> Owning a few Grand Seikos, I'm not really interested about the light reflectivity of my watches. What I want to know if where I should be sending my watch when it needs refinishing, using cost as a consideration.


I was thinking Eyes also and agree. I'm really not certain how reflective it is relates to how polished it looks, and I would not see how reflectivity would translate to brushed surfaces which are equally important. What it looks like is pretty much all that matters to me. Not much science to that.


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## fntms

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

I have an sbga stainless steel GS and after one year of wearing it a few days a week the lugs and bezel (and bracelet) have taken quite a few hairline scratches, more than I would have thought tbh, just from 'desk diving' ... So will follow this thread, hopefully we will get some practical info on the actual polishing service procedure.


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## Blackbeard Ben

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



Bighand said:


> Any chance that there is an _objective_ method to determine which finish is more polished at the end of the test? In other words, some method other than the subjective it looks shinier to me.


Any one of a number of specialized machined part inspection houses should be able to determine the surface finish roughness properties. Is it worth the cost of doing so? Perhaps not, but a quote doesn't cost anything but time. It would be relatively easy to compare brushed surface finishes though, which IMHO are actually more important as you can actually feel the difference between different roughness brushed surfaces. You can use a comparator like one of the ones on the left here: McMaster-Carr

Anyway, count me as subscribed and highly interested. I have an SBGF017, which has a wide polished bezel that is an absolute scratch magnet. I can tolerate desk diving marks on the case and bracelet, but it gets huge scuffs on that polished bezel all the time. I had my local jeweler polish just the bezel, but even though he's a great guy he didn't see the brushed bezel bevel (say that 10 times fast!) and polished that too instead of masking it. He attempted to brush that for me, but the brushed finish is nowhere near what it was before.

Admittedly, the watch as I bought it (used from a Yahoo Japan auction) had been clearly refinished due to a total lack of marks of any kind when I received it. There were some dings on the bezel and marks on the crystal AR coating that indicated that it had actually seen some pretty good wear before it was refinished and made it to my hands.


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## fntms

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

In a used watch shop in HK I was told that the Grand Seiko (a snowflake) I was looking at had not been repolished because titanium (or this specific gs titanium?) couldn't be repolished. Is this true?


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## moyski

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*



fntms said:


> In a used watch shop in HK I was told that the Grand Seiko (a snowflake) I was looking at had not been repolished because titanium (or this specific gs titanium?) couldn't be repolished. Is this true?


I keep reading that titanium is hard to polish that's why you rarely see a polished titanium watch. But somehow Seiko managed to do it. Maybe what they were referring to is that it would be tough to find someone who could repolish the snowflake. I don't see a reason why Seiko can't refinish their titanium watches when they were able to manufacture them.


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## Tseg

*Re: Update 9/19-- Watch Photos before trip to Mahwah , NJ*

I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out. Not to be difficult, but this watch appears to be a SBGA001 ($4,600) vs. SBGA083 ($3,600) due to the 5-section wide bracelet, the monochromatic PR indicator and trapezoid shaped 1/4 hour marks. Nonetheless, looking forward to the result but want to ensure like-watch comparisons at the end.



robattopper said:


> We have our watch that will be the subject of this thread. It will be the stainless steel $3,600 retail SBGA083
> 
> Here are some photos of the watch before it goes to Seiko U.S.A. for the refinish.
> 
> View attachment 5412962


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## Gibraltar

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

When I had my titanium Amvox 1 sent back to JLC for a service they were able to polish the case with pretty good results. They did have to send it back to Switzerland to do though, it was not possible in the local service center. It also took 6 months


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## Jim Smyth

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

I am a knifemaker and work almost 100 percent with Titanium for all my folder handles. 6Al4V Titanium to be specific. Titanium is a metal and it is not difficult to polish. If anything its a little gummy to work if you will in comparison to Stainless Steel. I use various grits of sand paper down to 600 grit, media blast it with ceramic beads and then buff with Black rouge and then Green rouge. Surface finish comes out like a mirror literally. I can take a handle that is in a crude block form, contour it and have it like a mirror in about 4 hours. The shaping takes the longest with sanding and polishing in less than a hour total. So I dont get where all this hype comes from on how hard Titanium is to polish. I could teach someone with very basic skills how to polish Titanium in about a hour. The real trick is to not round off the crisp edges with a buffer if thats the look your after. Theres also ways of hand polishing imperfection/marks/scratches with cape cod cloths, micron sand paper, semi chrome etc that will go a long way to keeping your watch in tip top shape.


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## Nokie

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

I agree with Jim. Titanium gets a bad rap for being tough to correct, but with the proper materials and compounds, it can be worked out just like stainless.

I have found it just takes a bit more elbow grease and patience, but the results can be as good as any stainless 316L correction.


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## JohnnyT5

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

I understand that both metals can be polished. The issue for me is the ability to remove scratches and dings without compromising the sharp angles and integrity of these cases. I had a SBGR 081 Whose uniqueness was the sharp angles on the case, especially at the lugs.

Also, how about when there is a fine line of polished surrounded on both sides with brushed or blasted. You see this sometimes as an accent line around the bezel or on the bracelets.

Would love to see your results in these examples.


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## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*



Jim Smyth said:


> I am a knifemaker and work almost 100 percent with Titanium for all my folder handles. 6Al4V Titanium to be specific. Titanium is a metal and it is not difficult to polish. If anything its a little gummy to work if you will in comparison to Stainless Steel. I use various grits of sand paper down to 600 grit, media blast it with ceramic beads and then buff with Black rouge and then Green rouge. Surface finish comes out like a mirror literally. I can take a handle that is in a crude block form, contour it and have it like a mirror in about 4 hours. The shaping takes the longest with sanding and polishing in less than a hour total. So I dont get where all this hype comes from on how hard Titanium is to polish. I could teach someone with very basic skills how to polish Titanium in about a hour. The real trick is to not round off the crisp edges with a buffer if thats the look your after. Theres also ways of hand polishing imperfection/marks/scratches with cape cod cloths, micron sand paper, semi chrome etc that will go a long way to keeping your watch in tip top shape.


I agree I've refinished several Titanium watches over the years and other than using a different polish type it finished just fine. Granted I have the right machines to do this.

As far as the edges just like SS you tape them with the proper film to protect them. They can be maintained, it just takes time. Sometimes you need to take them down to the parts just like the factory before assembly.


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## Jim Smyth

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*



samanator said:


> I agree I've refinished several Titanium watches over the years and other than using a different polish type it finished just fine. Granted I have the right machines to do this.
> 
> As far as the edges just like SS you tape them with the proper film to protect them. They can be maintained, it just takes time. Sometimes you need to take them down to the parts just like the factory before assembly.


The above is spot on. The watch needs to be broken down into pieces to do the job properly. Thats why most go back to the factory for this procedure. I have seen 2 tone bracelets redone and they do indeed get tapped off for the center section polish. Its just knowing how to work with metal and what results you can achieve. But suffice it t say polishing Titanium is not difficult IMO.

I am considering purchasing a Grand Seiko SBGA031 in the near future. I would be interested to know if all the parts are machined from billet or mim/casted Titanium?


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## robattopper

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*

*Thank you for your patience with this journey!*

While we hoped that this post would perhaps set an optimistic expectation for speed on a refinish, it took longer to get the work done than we expected. This delay was due to our contact at Seiko USA's travel schedule and our desire to get photos of the facility. The watch is now back at Topper after having been refinished.

Please keep in mind that the refinishing shown below is a complimentary service option available during watch servicing and is currently only available for steel Grand Seiko models sent to the U.S. service Center. Titanium Grand Seiko models only have the option of being sent to Japan for Zaratsu refinishing.

What did we think of the work? While the U.S. service center certainly did take out many of the scratches, it didn't quite bring the piece back to 100% new or replicate the distortion-free mirror finish that is the brand's hallmark. Though this was no surprise given the extent of damage on the test case watch, and given Seiko USA's prediction that it wouldn't look as good as a new piece. The work also seemed relatively conservative and done with a mindfulness to avoid over polishing the distinguishing sharp lines of the case and bracelet. After the refinish, a few flaws remain or have become apparent, including some scratches in the small high polish links, an unevenness in the brushed finish on the larger links, some erosion of the normally crisp case lines, and a little distortion on the flatter high polish (normally mirror-like) surfaces of the case.

How much is the price of this domestic polishing service, and how much will it be for the Zaratzu refinishing in Japan? We had estimated that Seiko USA would charge approximately 100 dollars for this type of service. Currently, this type of refinish is complimentary and optional (at the owner's request), when the watch is in for service. However, Seiko USA is still considering what retail value to put on an individual polishing service. They also continue to reflect on what cost to apply to the Zaratsu level refinish in Japan, both as an a la carte option and as part of a full service. The executives at Seiko's new luxury division have now come to realize that American watch enthusiasts have long had access to full rate sheets for partial and full services on various different manufacturer's calibres, and that perhaps this type of document also needs to exist for Grand Seiko. It doesn't exist presently.

Below are photos of the work performed. The watch will now go back to New Jersey (we also will put a few fresh scratches on it as well) before it is sent to Seiko Japan to see how the Grand Seiko masters in Japan are able to restore the piece. We also hope to have more information on pricing as this journey continues.









_The case of the disassembled watch being polished on a buffing wheel at Seiko USA._









_A close up of the many (Swiss) buffing wheels used in the refinishing process at Seiko USA._









_Here half of the bracelet (in the background) has been refinished. The other half (near) has its brushed surfaces masked off in preparation for refinishing the high polished surfaces._









_The technician is using the outer edge of the buffing wheel to refinish the unmasked surfaces of the bracelet._









_For contrast, a view of the finish on the bracelet of a new Grand Seiko at Topper Fine Jewelers._









_Again for comparison, here is the clasp of a new Grand Seiko._









_This is a magnified view of the bracelet refinished at Seiko USA. Note some scratches and dings remain around the edges of the high polished links. The grain of the brushed finishes also seems more coarse on the center link than on the outer links._









_On the clasp, the finishing process seems to have disturbed the matt finish within the logo and the polished relief areas of the "GS" logo are not as fine as when new. There also appears to be a halo effect around the logo, and the grain direction on the brushed finish also seems to be less than uniform._









_Another close-up of the marks still visible on the high polish portion of the center link. This is also where the scratches were more heavily concentrated throughout the bracelet._









_Some of the marks stretched from the high polish edge to the brushed portion of the center link. The marks remain apparent post refinishing though are now significantly smaller._









_Another shot of the marks stretching from the high polish edge to the brushed portion of the center link._









_Some marks remain on the brushed surfaces of the lugs. It looks as if perhaps only the high polished surfaces of the case were refinished._









_A closer shot of the marks that remain on the brushed surfaces of the lugs._









_Another lug where the marks remain on the brushed surface._









_Note the use of the round or radial side of the polishing wheel appears to have reduced the sharpness of the normally crisp case lines, and the flat surfaces are no longer distortion free._









_A flaw remains (although diminished) from what was a significant scratch on the bezel._









_The remaining flaws on the bezel appear as smoothed indents into the surface._



robattopper said:


> We have our watch that will be the subject of this thread. It will be the stainless steel $3,600 retail SBGA083
> 
> Here are some photos of the watch before it goes to Seiko U.S.A. for the refinish.
> 
> View attachment 5412962
> 
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> View attachment 5412994
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> View attachment 5412946
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> View attachment 5412962
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> View attachment 5412978
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> 
> View attachment 5413002


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## R.Palace

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

Looks decent enough for a complimentary service. Not sure how others paying for the service in the future would feel about it though. Thanks for posting, Rob


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## Tseg

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

Thanks for this. Looking forward to seeing the results of the full treatment in Japan. Over time I've evolved on my perspective of watch touch-ups. For me, if it cannot be restored to like-new condition I think I'll take pass on an attempted restoration. But everyone is different with regards to wants and needs.


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## matt.wu

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*



R.Palace said:


> Looks decent enough for a complimentary service. Not sure how others paying for the service in the future would feel about it though. Thanks for posting, Rob


Agreed with this. For complimentary service, they at least didn't OVER-polish it, which is generally what a lot of manufacturers do (and charge for). However, it's definitely not in line with refinishing that is worthy of the attention to detail that Grand Seiko is known for, so I'm curious to see how Japan will deliver (and how much it'd cost, including shipping).


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## Domo

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*

I think they've done a great job considering it was:
1) Free
2) The atrocious state of the watch before
3) Free

Also, IIRC Seiko Jp will not refinish the clasp at all (they'll replace it though), so good on 'em for giving it a crack.


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## JohnnyT5

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*

This is actually a bit disappointing, Rob. You would think the official service center would do at least as well as a decent local watch maker. They did not. Granted this is complimentary, but in my view, what this center did is actually a net negative in the potential for this watch and bracelet to get back to original appearance.


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## PJ S

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*



robattopper said:


> How much is the price of this domestic polishing service, and how much will it be for the Zaratzu refinishing in Japan? We had estimated that Seiko USA would charge approximately 100 dollars for this type of service. Currently, this type of refinish is complimentary and optional (at the owner's request), when the watch is in for service. However, Seiko USA is still considering what retail value to put on an individual polishing service. They also continue to reflect on what cost to apply to the Zaratsu level refinish in Japan, both as an a la carte option and as part of a full service. The executives at Seiko's new luxury division have now come to realize that American watch enthusiasts have long had access to full rate sheets for partial and full services on various different manufacturer's calibres, and that perhaps this type of document also needs to exist for Grand Seiko. It doesn't exist presently.


Could be how you've phrased it Rob, but there is a pricing structure already in place for polishing on its own or as part of a service - the difference is fairly minimal.
This comes from a JDM AD, and converted from Yen into $, the standalone price for a SS/Ti/some 18K case and bracelet is $250, plus shipping to and from Japan.
As mentioned above, if the clasp is beyond refinishing, then there'll be the additional expense of a replacement fitted, which would overshadow the polishing cost, significantly.


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## manombo

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*



PJ S said:


> Could be how you've phrased it Rob, but there is a pricing structure already in place for polishing on its own or as part of a service - the difference is fairly minimal.
> This comes from a JDM AD, and converted from Yen into $, the standalone price for a SS/Ti/some 18K case and bracelet is $250, plus shipping to and from Japan.
> As mentioned above, if the clasp is beyond refinishing, then there'll be the additional expense of a replacement fitted, which would overshadow the polishing cost, significantly.


I think what Rob is saying is that Seiko USA has yet to determine what those prices should be for the USA market. Rate sheets are available for JDM, but not yet for their new USA market. As we see with other manufacturers, especially with both foreign and domestic service options serving a particular market, a simple currency conversion from one market to another is not always equivalent. This is especially true when considering different degrees of service and whether the widely varying domestic and/or international shipping fees are part of the retail service pricing.

Seeing the USA market pricing will be helpful. Together with the results of this experiment, it will significantly influence our choices on service/polishing destinations for our GS's.


----------



## -JoeK-

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*

This is a great thread. I have some insight and can answer some of the questions throughout the thread...

1. Seiko will refinish Bright (aka High-Intensity) Titanium which both refer to the alloy itself that does make it harder then pure titanium

2. Diashield is the hard-coating process used on steel and/or titanium. They actually use it on Brightz Titanium as well as regular titanium

3. I had an SPS001 which was Brightz (called High-Intensity back then) titanium and Zartsu re-polished by Japan. Rough total cost paid was just over $500 for the case and bracelet. The thing looked brand spanking new.


----------



## tdk

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*



-JoeK- said:


> This is a great thread. I have some insight and can answer some of the questions throughout the thread...
> 
> 1. Seiko will refinish Bright (aka High-Intensity) Titanium which both refer to the alloy itself that does make it harder then pure titanium
> 
> 2. Diashield is the hard-coating process used on steel and/or titanium. They actually use it on Brightz Titanium as well as regular titanium
> 
> 3. I had an SPS001 which was Brightz (called High-Intensity back then) titanium and Zartsu re-polished by Japan. Rough total cost paid was just over $500 for the case and bracelet. The thing looked brand spanking new.


Does polishing/refinishing affect/remove Diashield?


----------



## Jim Smyth

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*

Titanium can not be heat treated meaning you cant harden it by applying heat. But what you can do is put a extremely thin (in microns) oxidation layer over it with heat making it slightly more harder and its just on the surface. Many knife makers do this to there lock bars where the lock contacts the back of the blade. Believe me it does come right off with any abrasion so IMO it more a marketing thing than anything else. I am just guessing here but I would assume that after refinishing it they heat it up and again put another layer of oxidation on the titanium.


----------



## -JoeK-

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*



tdk said:


> Does polishing/refinishing affect/remove Diashield?


I would assume removes it, and Seiko won't alter the original specifications in repairs (meaning they wouldn't refinish and send it back without Diashield).


----------



## -JoeK-

*Re: Update Back at Topper for trip to Mahwah , NJ*



Jim Smyth said:


> Titanium can not be heat treated meaning you cant harden it by applying heat. But what you can do is put a extremely thin (in microns) oxidation layer over it with heat making it slightly more harder and its just on the surface. Many knife makers do this to there lock bars where the lock contacts the back of the blade. Believe me it does come right off with any abrasion so IMO it more a marketing thing than anything else. I am just guessing here but I would assume that after refinishing it they heat it up and again put another layer of oxidation on the titanium.


Yeah, I haven't heard anything about heat treating the metal to make it harder. I know that Seiko's Bright Titanium is a Grade 5 alloy which composition is what makes it stronger. The more commonly used Ti in the watch industry is grade 2. The treatments by any of the big 3 Japanese companies are applied to either grade and still can scratch. I've seen that first hand. Maybe not as easy, but you're certainly right Jim. The watch companies prefer to replace diashield, duratect, etc treated metals most likely for cost reasons.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

So did it get sent to Japan?


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

In addition to polishing cost, all of Grand Seiko owners have to be aware of shipping cost which include insurance, especially if you can't drop it off and pick it up from NJ.

send from AZ


----------



## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



Foxman2k said:


> So did it get sent to Japan?


Yes these were shipped to japan for the next part of this story.


----------



## -JoeK-

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



TOPTISHKIN said:


> In addition to polishing cost, all of Grand Seiko owners have to be aware of shipping cost which include insurance, especially if you can't drop it off and pick it up from NJ.
> 
> send from AZ


Typically for servicing outside of warranty services, polishing etc. Seiko USA has charged about $90 shipping for the trip to Japan and back. I'm sure this will vary depending on current rates, but it is what I have seen personally. To get it to NJ would vary depending where you live, what method etc. Tough to answer.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

Well, mine has been shipped to Japan. So far we are 1 week in. At some point I should apparently hear from GS about cost estimates etc.


----------



## Langs

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



Foxman2k said:


> Well, mine has been shipped to Japan. So far we are 1 week in. At some point I should apparently hear from GS about cost estimates etc.


I sent in my SBGX061 for polishing in Japan a few months ago. I noticed a scratch on the bezel and notified Seiko UK. They insisted it went to Japan (no bad thing) and said that it would take ~4 weeks. 

After a few days I got this email:

Japan has advised that the cost of the polishing is going to be £256.80 or a new bezel would be £280.

Please confirm which you would like me to request.
Best wishes,
Carol.

Once completed I got the watch back (in a plastic bag!) with a note (on lovely rice paper) detailing what they had done. Not only did they polish it, but they also replaced the battery and realigned the seconds hand (it missed a few markers on the dial very slightly). I did not tell them to do that - but they inspected the watch and did it anyway.

Needless to say it looked stunning. Even now I get rainbow colours coming off the watch when the light hits it. Awesome!


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



Langs said:


> I sent in my SBGX061 for polishing in Japan a few months ago. I noticed a scratch on the bezel and notified Seiko UK. They insisted it went to Japan (no bad thing) and said that it would take ~4 weeks.
> 
> After a few days I got this email:
> 
> Japan has advised that the cost of the polishing is going to be £256.80 or a new bezel would be £280.
> 
> Please confirm which you would like me to request.
> Best wishes,
> Carol.
> 
> Once completed I got the watch back (in a plastic bag!) with a note (on lovely rice paper) detailing what they had done. Not only did they polish it, but they also replaced the battery and realigned the seconds hand (it missed a few markers on the dial very slightly). I did not tell them to do that - but they inspected the watch and did it anyway.
> 
> Needless to say it looked stunning. Even now I get rainbow colours coming off the watch when the light hits it. Awesome!


So did you replace or get the bezel polished? Any pics?


----------



## yonsson

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

I find this thread very interesting. I recently owned a SBGM001 which probably had been serviced and polished by SEIKO Japan. It looked close to new and had distortion free mirror finish but you could see that some small dings were left and over polished. The lines were still sharp but not as sharp as an unpolished SBGM001 when comparing them side by side. Thanks for taking the time, I look forward to the results from the Japan polishing.


----------



## Brandon Hobbs

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

Any updates now that the holidays are concluded? I gave a Gas that I know will need refurb one day and curious what it'll cost and the quality.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

Mine is still in Japan. So far about 6 weeks have passed.


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

Mine was send to Seiko Japan via Seiko USA in October.


----------



## Jim Smyth

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



TOPTISHKIN said:


> Mine was send to Seiko Japan via Seiko USA in October.


Well that's pretty depressing information. Was you watch a chronograph? Have you made any inquiries to see whats going on? Seems way to long to be normal although I have no practical experience in this area. Just what I read on the forums.


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

Well, it is Seiko's most complicated mechanical movement, but some of it is my fault. Due to my travels, I could not respond to a phone message from Seiko USA and Seiko misplaced my check.


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

After 10 weeks, 2 continental USA crossings, 2 Pacific Ocean crossings, 10 emails, 10 phone calls, total 30 minutes phone hold time, my watch is coming home.

My next experiment, sending my Southpole titanium ceramic watch bracelet to Michael Young in Hong Kong. After 16 years of wear the bracelet has stretched, so according to him I will be his first Seiko customer. He is well know in Rolex circles.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



TOPTISHKIN said:


> After 10 weeks, 2 continental USA crossings, 2 Pacific Ocean crossings, 10 emails, 10 phone calls, total 30 minutes phone hold time, my watch is coming home.
> 
> My next experiment, sending my Southpole titanium ceramic watch bracelet to Michael Young in Hong Kong. After 16 years of wear the bracelet has stretched, so according to him I will be his first Seiko customer. He is well know in Rolex circles.


With the work completed? What was the reason for all the calls and emails?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

I am not complaining. Just excited to get it back. Email and phone conversation were either about shipping and receiving notification, payment clarification. 
Also, as of today, I am not aware of any watch repair service in USA who could work on 4s36 with confidence .


----------



## cwatchman

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

I'm very interested in seeing how this turns out.


----------



## liwang22

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

Great research, Rob. I'm looking forward to seeing the results from Japan.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

I have received word that my GS should be done and on its way back to this US in around 2 weeks


----------



## deepreddave

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

Just read this and really interesting as an owner of the entry model GS sbgx061. Think I'll keep trying to be extra careful with it to avoid the experience for a long as possible.


----------



## JoeOBrien

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



Langs said:


> Japan has advised that the cost of the polishing is going to be £256.80 or a new bezel would be £280.


Just curious; was the bezel scratch the only mark on the watch, or just the only one that bothered you? How bad was it? I'm asking to get a general idea of polishing prices. I gather the cost is relative to the condition of the watch, and I saw a post on a different forum where someone said he was quoted £310, plus shipping.


----------



## estrickland

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

FWIW I sent my wife's 19GS VFA in for Zaratsu polishing, crystal polishing and VFA-qualified movement service.
They accepted the watch, but they shipped it to their internal service department first.

Crossing my fingers that they don't touch the watch and just ship it to Japan.
So rare - hitting it with a wheel would be a crime against horology.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*

So I just heard from Timeless. I believe my special hi beat is on the way back and is likely to arrive next Tuesday then gets shipped to me. So will advise once that happens.

Estrickland - I agree with you on sending to Seiko in the us first. When I contacted seiko us initially they just said "oh yeah send it in" but made no mention of sending it to Japan. Needless to say that's when I contacted timeless who said they ONLY ship to Japan.

Fingers crossed!


----------



## robattopper

*Back From Japan Photos*

After two months, the Zaratsu watch is back from Japan and the second phase of its journey as part of our collaborative experiment with Seiko USA is now complete.

Overall the condition of the watch is nearly indistinguishable from when it made its first trip to the United states from Japan as a new watch. Practically all of the marks remaining after the Seiko USA polish are now gone. The high polish surfaces are now distortion free, and the once marred and rounded case lines are again crisp and straight.

Perhaps most impressive is the now like-new appearance of the bracelet. This is most notable because of the quality and consistency of finishes in each of the 5-piece links. All the brushed finishes are brushed, polished are polished, and the side link pieces, which are a combination of both, are once again perfect. This result is due primarily to the more manually intensive process used by Seiko Japan of completely disassembling the bracelet prior to polishing, rather than merely masking the various bracelet surfaces in between polishing types as done at the Seiko USA service center.

In contrast to what would be described as a refinish done by Seiko USA, it is clear that the effort provided by the Masters in Japan was a complete restoration with regard to the case and bracelet. This quality of service may be especially important to collectors who often avoid "refinishing" because it removes the natural patina a watch acquires over a period of use and, more likely, because refinishing can result in a still imperfect condition that also show signs of the refinishing effort in the form of lost detail, rounded edges, over or under polished surfaces, and the loss of sharpness in surface transitions between matt, brushed, and polished finishes. That is certainly not the case here (no pun intended).

At the bottom of this entry are photos of the watch as it appeared originally, after the light polish at the Seiko USA service center, then after the full restoration by the Masters in Japan.

Our Zaratsu journey has now provided us with answers on two of the three relevant questions related to making the decisions on what type of refinishing to have done and by which service provider. Those questions being: "What will each service provide as a final product" and "How long will it take?" What remains is completing the picture on "How much will it cost?"

We mentioned in an earlier post that the refinishing service provided by the Seiko USA service center in Mahwah, New Jersey would run about $100 as a stand alone service or would be complimentary at the time of service (if requested). Seiko USA is still formalizing a price structure for Zaratsu refinishing. We will update this thread when we have more information about pricing.









_A view of the watch prior to any refinishing. Note the scratches at the six o'clock position on the bezel._









_After the Zaratsu refinishing, the scratches on the bezel are no longer visible._









_A 4:30 view of the case lug and lower bezel prior to any refinishing._









_A similar view of the lug and lower bezel post Zaratsu refinishing. Note the crisp lines and blemish-free polished surfaces._









_This view of the lower bezel after the Seiko USA refinish shows a remaining scratch at six o'clock._









_The same view after the Zaratsu treatment shows a now flawless surface._









_After the Seiko USA refinish, some marks remain on the brushed surfaces of the lugs. It looks as if perhaps only the high polished surfaces of the case were refinished._









_A similar view of the same lug after the Zaratsu refinishing shows completely restored finishes on both the high polish and brushed facets._









_This pre refinish view shows dings and various scratches on the twelve o'clock area of the bezel and the upper right lug._









_A post Zaratsu view of the same lug and bezel area show near perfectly restored surfaces and sharp case lines._









_A pre refinish view of the ten o'clock area of the bezel, upper left lug, and bracelet case link reveals dings and various scratches._









_The same ten o'clock view after the Zaratsu refinishing shows sharp lines, mirror like high polish surfaces, a smooth and consistent brushed lug, and a like-new case link. _









_Upon close inspection after the Seiko USA refinishing, it looks as if little work was done to resurface the brushed facet of the lug. It also appears their high polishing effort may have reduced the sharpness of the normally straight and crisp case lines. Note also that the flat surfaces are no longer distortion free._









_The same close inspection of the case after the Zaratsu refinishing reveals a perfectly restored brushed lug surface, sharp and crisp case lines (especially at transitions between brushed and high polished facets), and the high polished surfaces are once again mirrorlike._









_One side of the bracelet links in original well-used condition prior to any refinishing._









_The opposite side of the bracelet in original well-used condition prior to any refinishing._









_One side of the bracelet links after the Seiko USA refinishing. At first glance the appearance is much improved. _









_A closer view of the more damaged side of the bracelet links after the Seiko USA refinishing. Some scratches and marks spanning across links and their varied surfaces remain apparent though significantly smaller. _









_One side of the bracelet links after the Zaratsu refinishing. The appearance is like that of a new bracelet. All surfaces are consistent and show practically no signs of prior damage or wear. _









_Close-up on the bracelet links after the Zaratsu refinishing. Practically all scratches and marks across all links have been removed. Each surface type has been restored to its as-new condition. _









_Another close-up view of the quality and consistency of the Zaratsu refinishing on the bracelet links._









_The bracelet clasp in original condition prior to any refinishing._









_The bracelet clasp after Seiko USA refinishing. The surfaces were much improved, though certainly not perfect, and did not consistently approximate 'original when new' condition. _









_The bracelet clasp after Seiko Japan refinishing. All surfaces are practically indistinguishable from original new condition. _









_The newly Zaratsu refinished timepiece._


----------



## Mark355

*Re: Back From Japan Photos*

Wow that is tremendous work!


----------



## Jim Smyth

*Re: Back From Japan Photos*

Thanks for all the work on this journey Rob. Makes my mind up that mine will go to Japan if/when I want it totally refinished. Makes sense though, always good to go back to the mother ship.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

That is incredible! I hope to receive mine back next week and will post updates then as well.


----------



## ravisuricata

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Beautiful before, gorgeous again! Thank you for this experiment and article.


----------



## ieatkows

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Impressive. Thanks for documenting this. :-!


----------



## Tseg

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

I'm impressed. Mine will go to Japan when it's time.


----------



## moyski

*The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

Wonderful! First comprehensive post of a Grand Seiko undergoing service in Japan. I am comforted to know that I can expect the same quality of work when my watch goes in for service.

Thank you for this very enlightening post!

Just curious though, could you tell that the watch went through refinishing compared to a brand new piece? Thinner lugs, lug holes closer to the case lines, end links having more space between the case? There must have been some metal shaved off from polishing to remove those deeper scratches.


----------



## carlhaluss

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

Well, I finally took the time to read through this entire thread. Thank You so much for that incredible journey. It was most interesting to learn about the USA refinishing in comparison to the Japanese. Especially, that they disassemble the entire 5-link bracelet in the process.

I have never seen such a detailed report of this type on any forum. You are to be commended for all the time and work!

My first Grand Seiko, the quartz SBGX059 with white dial, is the watch I wear to work every day. I do production work in a print shop, and do wear the watch for most of the work, although I do remove it if my hands have to go into various bits of machinery. Fortunately, it has the 3-link bracelet. The watch is, of course, getting what I call "love scratches", and I really don't mind a bit. I give the watch a good bath every couple of weeks with Veraet Watch cleaner and, scratches and all, it just sparkles.

One of the very best parts of a Grand Seiko and the most visible is the dial. And that is my main focus, so the odd hairline scratch rarely gets much of my attention. I am trying to keep my other two Grand Seikos pristine, though. I have seen so many vintage and older pieces ruined by over-polishing, and it's great to know that most of the surfaces of the case can be refinished to almost like new, and retain the sharpness of the case edges.

Thanks again,
Carl


----------



## consum3r

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*



moyski said:


> Just curious though, could you tell that the watch went through refinishing compared to a brand new piece? Thinner lugs, lug holes closer to the case lines, end links having more space between the case? There must have been some metal shaved off from polishing to remove those deeper scratches.


I'm curious about this as well.

Either way, the end result is a bucket full of awesome.

Sent from my cranium via manual interface with a tactile input device.


----------



## thevenerablelars

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

I've been looking forward to this update for a while. Very thorough and useful report, Rob.

Thanks for taking the time to put this together.


----------



## sea0bass

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

Excellent. I shall be sending mine to Japan for service work in the future.


----------



## Horoticus

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*



sea0bass said:


> Excellent. I shall be sending mine to Japan for service work in the future.


Yes, no doubt about it, any GS of mine will be making the express trip to Japan. Thanks Rob for the journey!


----------



## incontrol

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Very impressive journey. This is why we love GS, extremely beautiful when new and extremely beautiful when serviced in Japan!

I am curious as well if it is evident that some metal was removed by comparison to a new watch.

Thank you so much for this thread. Very enlightening. Based on this, I would not hesitate to buy another!


----------



## tdk

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Is the bezel a separate piece or part of the case? If it is a separate piece it is possible the bezel could be installed in a different orientation after the polish. Thus it wouldn't be possible to exactly compare the bezel to the before condition.


----------



## JohnnyT5

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

This is a very cool documentation, and clearly illustrates the superior work of going back to Japan. Great thread, Rob!

A couple of questions remain for me: At what cost?, and given real life usage, is the difference between the jobs at USA and Japan really apparent in everyday use. For example, would it be just as cost effective/desirable to just replace the bracelet? seems as if that is not only where the bulk of the work is, but isn't that also the most vulnerable place for scratches and swirls to reappear?

Also, it is clear that these extraordinary finishes on GS are also more likely to show even the most benign mark. How many wears before the finishes start showing swirls and other marks again? I consider myself pretty anal about keeping my watches nice, but I wear them, and in real life, stuff happens. The world is not perfect and I have come to understand that.


----------



## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Cost is still being determined on this and Rob will report back when we have an answer.


----------



## kamonjj

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

This thread makes me feel so much better about wearing the bracelet on my sbga031. Definitely going to wear it now with no regrets!

Thank you for this documentation, its greatly appreciated. I now have a new found respect for the refinishing process done in japan.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

I got quoted $250 for the refusing by GS Japan. I haven't received the bill yet but that should be the ballpark.


----------



## moyski

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Foxman2k said:


> I got quoted $250 for the refusing by GS Japan. I haven't received the bill yet but that should be the ballpark.


I say it's well worth it after seeing the results!


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Hope to receive mine back next week and will post as many detailed pics as I can.


----------



## rkubosumi

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Great thread!


----------



## phli

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*



moyski said:


> Wonderful! First comprehensive post of a Grand Seiko undergoing service in Japan. I am comforted to know that I can expect the same quality of work when my watch goes in for service.
> 
> Thank you for this very enlightening post!
> 
> Just curious though, could you tell that the watch went through refinishing compared to a brand new piece? Thinner lugs, lug holes closer to the case lines, end links having more space between the case? There must have been some metal shaved off from polishing to remove those deeper scratches.


Interested in knowing this as well...

Also, would be great if there's an official answer as to how many times a GS watch can be refinished. Sometimes I heard that a watch shouldn't be polished for more than 3 times. Hence would like to know if that's the case for GS

Anyhow, as other mentioned, the results are simply awesome and I'd just wear my GS more often!


----------



## Jim Smyth

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

Anytime a watch is refinished you remove metal. The key is to remove as little as possible to maintain the original shape. I dont think there's a set number of times a watch can be refinished. I think it more depends on the skill of the person doing the refinishing and the machines at there disposal. It looks like from this thread that means a trip back to the mother ship for the best results.

I work in high end cutlery and its always best to send it back to the guy that originally made said product. When I get redone refurbishing one of my knives you wouldnt know that it wasnt brand new! That skill set came after about 5 years of continuously working with metal. I am sure the same goes for watches.


----------



## Vig2000

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

Finished reading this entire thread. A real case study in the Zaratsu journey for sure; thanks so much for sharing! Count me in with wanting to know how the Zaratsu (re)polished version differs from an original, brand new piece.


----------



## robattopper

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

I really can't see much (any?) difference between this watch and a new watch. If anyone is in burlingame and would like to compare it to one of our new stock watches, we will keep it in the safe for as long as possible. Members are welcome to come take a lot at it, and share their own conclusions. if you are in the area, just ask me to bring out the "Journey" watch. 
--- I think this quote really accurately describes the reality of finishing well..... I'll see if they have any quantification of number of times, but I doubt there will be a real answer as every refinishing situation will bring it's own challenges.



Jim Smyth said:


> Anytime a watch is refinished you remove metal. The key is to remove as little as possible to maintain the original shape. I dont think there's a set number of times a watch can be refinished. I think it more depends on the skill of the person doing the refinishing and the machines at there disposal. It looks like from this thread that means a trip back to the mother ship for the best results.
> 
> I work in high end cutlery and its always best to send it back to the guy that originally made said product. When I get redone refurbishing one of my knives you wouldnt know that it wasnt brand new! That skill set came after about 5 years of continuously working with metal. I am sure the same goes for watches.


----------



## nielss

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Servi...*

I am in awe of the skill of the GS craftsmen! Sometimes it's even harder to restore these finishes than it was to manufacture them originally, although in this case a great deal of care is taken in manufacturing as well. This watch looks like new in every detail photographed--that's really impressive.

Makes me less nervous about wearing my GS! Thanks for documenting this experiment. Amazing!


----------



## Zinzan

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Excellent stuff, Rob.

Why the delay on pricing?


----------



## Blackbeard Ben

I am thoroughly impressed by the refinishing quality from Japan. I suppose I shouldn't expect any less. If the total cost comes in at less than $300, I'll be all the more impressed.

FWIW to the poster who asked if the bezel was removable: On the SBGF017, it most certainly is. There's no way it could have a polished underside meeting the brushed body of the case otherwise.


----------



## manofrolex

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

They have done a spectacular job but to be fair one is sent back to the mother ship where the watch was born and were the expertise lies whereas Seiko USA might have fairly skilled workers but not to the level of the GS folks. So I would have expected a difference and clearly it shows. Having said all this when my GS goes for service and polish refinish it will be Japan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GUTuna

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

I have a GS with the 8J56 that is on its way back from polishing in Japan. When it arrives I will post before and after.


----------



## GUTuna

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



GUTuna said:


> I have a GS with the 8J56 that is on its way back from polishing in Japan. When it arrives I will post before and after.


Here is the before.















And the after - polishing and service





















The crystal was left in place. Otherwise the watch looks new!

As far as results, it was definitely worth the effort. The only downside is that shipping & handling was 30% of the cost of the polishing and service.


----------



## WatchFan650

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



GUTuna said:


> As far as results, it was definitely worth the effort. The only downside is that shipping & handling was 30% of the cost of the polishing and service.


Sorry if I missed it in previous posts, but what was the breakdown of costs?


----------



## GUTuna

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



WatchFan650 said:


> Sorry if I missed it in previous posts, but what was the breakdown of costs?


The cost was $600 for full polishing of the case and bracelet.


----------



## thien8810

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Is there an option to polish the watch case only? I have mine exclusive on strap and I have stored the bracelet away.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## GUTuna

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



thien8810 said:


> Is there an option to polish the watch case only? I have mine exclusive on strap and I have stored the bracelet away.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yes, I think there is. You can call ahead and ask.


----------



## Langs

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 11/4]*



JoeOBrien said:


> Just curious; was the bezel scratch the only mark on the watch, or just the only one that bothered you? How bad was it? I'm asking to get a general idea of polishing prices. I gather the cost is relative to the condition of the watch, and I saw a post on a different forum where someone said he was quoted £310, plus shipping.


It was the only mark and it did really bother me. It stood out only because the rest of the watch was immaculate.

Great thread!


----------



## ravisuricata

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Does anyone know... if I send my SBGA011 Snowflake to JPN for routine mechanical service, will it be polished? Or do I need to request the polishing service explicitly in addition to the mechanical service request? Thank you!


----------



## PJ S

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

^
Two separate costs - so the polishing must be requested.


----------



## 2muchtimeonmyhands

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Very impressive stuff from Seiko and an interesting read, thanks for posting!


----------



## WiZARD7

*Re: Back From Japan Photos*



robattopper said:


> Our Zaratsu journey has now provided us with answers on two of the three relevant questions related to making the decisions on what type of refinishing to have done and by which service provider. Those questions being: "What will each service provide as a final product" and "How long will it take?" What remains is completing the picture on "How much will it cost?"
> 
> We mentioned in an earlier post that the refinishing service provided by the Seiko USA service center in Mahwah, New Jersey would run about $100 as a stand alone service or would be complimentary at the time of service (if requested). Seiko USA is still formalizing a price structure for Zaratsu refinishing. We will update this thread when we have more information about pricing.


~7 months passed, is there any update on the pricing?


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

How about posting a side by side picture of a brand new model and the JPN polished one for comparison?

I am also very curious on pricing.
Yesterday someone in the maintenance thread posted that JPN Zuratsu polishing of his snowflake was estimated at $600 USD by Seiko USA!
That is an outrageous amount if true.


----------



## GUTuna

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

My cost was $600 for full polishing of the case, caseback and bracelet. I don't think it's for each service. But if you have a watch full of light marks, $600 isn't exactly crazy to bring it back to like-new condition for what could be a $5-6k watch.


----------



## PJ S

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

^
Actually, it is - Patek charge less than $200 for their $20K+ Nautilus & Aquanaut watches to be refinished.
I'll say the same in this thread as the other one - Seiko is monumentally ripping off its US Grand Seiko owners with this exorbitant charge, which is totally counter to the value proposition of their watches - themselves already inflated from the JDM price.
The Swiss can manage to maintain level pricing worldwide, there's no reason Seiko can't do the same.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> How about posting a side by side picture of a brand new model and the JPN polished one for comparison?
> 
> I am also very curious on pricing.
> Yesterday someone in the maintenance thread posted that JPN Zuratsu polishing of his snowflake was estimated at $600 USD by Seiko USA!
> That is an outrageous amount if true.


I believe that amount to be about right. The work is exemplary however.


----------



## robattopper

*Re: Back From Japan Photos*



WiZARD7 said:


> ~7 months passed, is there any update on the pricing?


We now have Joe from Seiko USA as a moderator. Joe, can you please elaborate on the situation for U.S. customers? (My understanding is that there is still not official U.S. pricing for refinishing in Japan, though we are hopeful that Joe's presence on this forum will address this.)


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



GUTuna said:


> My cost was $600 for full polishing of the case, caseback and bracelet. I don't think it's for each service. But if you have a watch full of light marks, $600 isn't exactly crazy to bring it back to like-new condition for what could be a $5-6k watch.


Would you still consider it a fair price if it were a $2k Quartz? 
Eye gouging prices if you ask me.


----------



## GUTuna

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> Would you still consider it a fair price if it were a $2k Quartz?
> Eye gouging prices if you ask me.


The watch I got polished was a Quartz actually. I wanted one with the 8J56 movement. Purchased it at $500 and then sent it for the polish. Brought it back to basically new. For $1100 total.

I'm not saying it's affordable. Rather that they do amazing work for the money. There is no point comparing it to AP and PP. For one, I think Seiko's polishing is better, no matter the price tag. Given the original price tag, there is nothing about a Nautilus that can be considered a value! It's just all baked in.

The real gouging is on shipping to get all of this gone. Fully insured shipping at retail rates is nuts!


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Now I know why pre-owned GS are so cheap. Many would tell Seiko to f-off and dump their watch on the second hand market, rather than have it redone. Seiko corporation really need to rethink this. I'm not saying the work isn't amazing. I think all of us here agree on that subject. Nevertheless the pricing is exorbitant. No need sugar coating it.


----------



## JoeKirk

*Re: Back From Japan Photos*



robattopper said:


> We now have Joe from Seiko USA as a moderator. Joe, can you please elaborate on the situation for U.S. customers? (My understanding is that there is still not official U.S. pricing for refinishing in Japan, though we are hopeful that Joe's presence on this forum will address this.)


Thank you Rob. Unfortunately, I do not have set pricing for Zaratsu refinishing in Japan. This is something that is handled by our service department, so I am in the process of trying to bring about clarification. What I can elaborate on at the moment is that there is different pricing structure based per model. I learned this from personal previous experience. I should also note that (which has also been previously mentioned) is that the finish is very unique, especially on this size production scale and at this price segment. In Switzerland, referred to as black polishing (essentially the same as Zaratsu) is quite costly, and typically something rarely found among higher volume production brands. To apply this technique to case and 5 piece bracelet (when applicable) is very labor intensive, especially considering disassembly of bracelet, removing movement from case, testing, etc. There are many factors that come into play when restoring a Grand Seiko to it's original distortion free mirror finish. Please stand by as I await further info from our service department and try and shed some light on the situation.

Thanks!


----------



## AKM

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

The cost might be high but I view this as an extensive restoration.

I have two Grand Seikos, alternative between them as daily wearers and they pick up minor marks along the way. I'd only be looking to pay for a polish after many years of ownership and certainly not at every service.


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



ravisuricata said:


> Does anyone know... if I send my SBGA011 Snowflake to JPN for routine mechanical service, will it be polished? Or do I need to request the polishing service explicitly in addition to the mechanical service request? Thank you!


You have to specify to Seiko what you want done. The communication is slow and may feel unidirectional at times.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> Now I know why pre-owned GS are so cheap. Many would tell Seiko to f-off and dump their watch on the second hand market, rather than have it redone. Seiko corporation really need to rethink this. I'm not saying the work isn't amazing. I think all of us here agree on that subject. Nevertheless the pricing is exorbitant. No need sugar coating it.


Pre-owned Rolex refinish is not cheap either. There are Rolex horror stories about refinish problem by Rolex repair centers. As far as I am concerned there are two outfits that do a great job refinishing Rolex, one in Pasadena, CA another one is by Tourby Watches. GS requires more skill and care. Tourby quoted me 600 euros for Rolex not including shipping.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



TOPTISHKIN said:


> Pre-owned Rolex refinish is not cheap either. There are Rolex horror stories about refinish problem by Rolex repair centers. As far as I am concerned there are two outfits that do a great job refinishing Rolex, one in Pasadena, CA another one is by Tourby Watches. GS requires more skill and care. Tourby quoted me 600 euros for Rolex not including shipping.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


Well since you brought up Rolex, which so far has been irrelevant to the discussion, the difference is that the GS Zuratsu katana mirror finish is a major selling point and part of the brand's appeal. There is no market for preowned scratched up GS and the used market pricing shows this. Everyone prefers that mirror finish. With Rolex on the other hand it's exactly the opposite. Unaltered original condition is most valued.
Are you sure the price Tourby quoted you wasn't for a full service rather than just polishing?


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

^
... I send in picture of the watch and asked for plexiglass and metal refinish and service on Air King. Based on pictures I got a quote, not including the bracelet. I am sure physical examination may result in a different quote.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Double post.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



TOPTISHKIN said:


> ^
> ... I send in picture of the watch and asked for plexiglass and metal refinish and service on Air King. Based on pictures I got a quote, not including the bracelet. I am sure physical examination may result in a different quote.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


Wouldn't you agree there is a huge difference between €600 euro for a complete service including polishing and parts, and $600 USD for polishing alone?


----------



## AKM

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

It seems a bit pointless comparing refinishing costs with Rolex since Rolex watches have simpler cases; the modern ones are usually slab-sided and they don't bother to chamfer the lugs anymore. They make a very 'industrial' and hard-wearing watch and one which is also easier for the service centre to refinish.


----------



## Tseg

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

My ding hurts me every time I look. I may have to have it taken care of during its next service.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



AKM said:


> It seems a bit pointless comparing refinishing costs with Rolex since Rolex watches have simpler cases; the modern ones are usually slab-sided and they don't bother to chamfer the lugs anymore. They make a very 'industrial' and hard-wearing watch and one which is also easier for the service centre to refinish.


"They make a very 'industrial' and hard-wearing watch and one which is also easier for the service centre to refinish" is a very interesting comment. I am not disagreeing with you, but I am going to give your comment some thought and hope others with more experience than I weigh-in on your opinion. I have to admit that seeing the word "industrial" used to describe Rolex watches makes me feel slightly embarrassed for feeling a little schadenfreude when thinking of how some Rolex aficionados will react.


----------



## Tseg

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> "They make a very 'industrial' and hard-wearing watch and one which is also easier for the service centre to refinish" is a very interesting comment. I am not disagreeing with you, but I am going to give your comment some thought and hope others with more experience than I weigh-in on your opinion. I have to admit that seeing the word "industrial" used to describe Rolex watches makes me feel slightly embarrassed for feeling a little schadenfreude when thinking of how some Rolex aficionados will react.


I'll agree Rolex are "industrial". Few angles and precisely machined. Their flat surfaces are mirrored as well as GS, but there are less facets. Their dial components not as precisely machined as GS, but they are pretty good and imperfections can only be identified under a loupe. Ultimately, the Rolex is pretty bullet-proof, so for me, that makes it industrial in nature. Professional watch-makers frequently comment on the superior accessibility design of the Rolex movement for efficient maintenance. I'm like that my Rolex is industrial... prefer to dainty.


----------



## horolicious

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Once Seiko Japan will streamline the Grand Seiko and other high end JDM refinish, repair and shipping procedures and processes then it would become cheaper. The problem is the currency just got 20% stronger that makes it a little more expensive now. I actually wear my GS more then other watches and can't wait for it to get a look of tegimented steel in 20 years. Then maybe I will refinish it. In the meantime I told my trusted watch repair person that my GS is due for service in a year.... He looked a little hesitant to work on it.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> I'll agree Rolex are "industrial". Few angles and precisely machined. Their flat surfaces are mirrored as well as GS, but there are less facets. Their dial components not as precisely machined as GS, but they are pretty good and imperfections can only be identified under a loupe. Ultimately, the Rolex is pretty bullet-proof, so for me, that makes it industrial in nature. Professional watch-makers frequently comment on the superior accessibility design of the Rolex movement for efficient maintenance. I'm like that my Rolex is industrial... prefer to dainty.


I see your point about few angles, precise machining (of the case I presume), less facets, and a dial not as precisely machined, but I am not sure anyone would ever describe the Grand Seiko GMT Hi-Beat you own as being "dainty" in comparison to your Rolex GMT Master II (perhaps smaller) or having a movement that is significantly less accessible.


----------



## oliver37

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> "They make a very 'industrial' and hard-wearing watch and one which is also easier for the service centre to refinish" is a very interesting comment. I am not disagreeing with you, but I am going to give your comment some thought and hope others with more experience than I weigh-in on your opinion. I have to admit that seeing the word "industrial" used to describe Rolex watches makes me feel slightly embarrassed for feeling a little schadenfreude when thinking of how some Rolex aficionados will react.


Perhaps some will have the reaction that you're looking for, but I'm a Rolex owner and I prefer my more industrial Rolexes over the shiny ones. I think many folks interested in watches understand that Rolex's bread and butter is well-engineered watches that can take a beating, not fine jewelry.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



oliver37 said:


> Perhaps some will have the reaction that you're looking for, but I'm a Rolex owner and I prefer my more industrial Rolexes over the shiny ones. I think many folks interested in watches understand that Rolex's bread and butter is well-engineered watches that can take a beating, not fine jewelry.


My admitting to feeling a little schadenfreude does not mean I am looking for a particular reaction only admitting that I find it amusing how overly defensive some people are of the Rolex brand. I would never describe Rolexes as being "industrial". I'll agree Rolex's does a convincing job portraying that their "bread and butter is well-engineered watches that can take a beating" but you should admit that they are in reality making fine jewelry that can take a beating and still provide the time.


----------



## oliver37

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> My admitting to feeling a little schadenfreude does not mean I am looking for a particular reaction only admitting that I find it amusing how overly defensive some people are of the Rolex brand. I would never describe Rolexes as being "industrial". I'll agree Rolex's does a convincing job portraying that their "bread and butter is well-engineered watches that can take a beating" but you should admit that they are in reality making fine jewelry that can take a beating and still provide the time.


Tomatoes / tomahtoes 

I like Rolexes, they tell the time, and they seem to last awhile. I am not sure if my tastes are a product of their marketing team but if they are I'm okay with it.

Edited for my lousy spelling.


----------



## Tseg

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> I see your point about few angles, precise machining (of the case I presume), less facets, and a dial not as precisely machined, but I am not sure anyone would ever describe the Grand Seiko GMT Hi-Beat you own as being "dainty" in comparison to your Rolex GMT Master II (perhaps smaller) or having a movement that is significantly less accessible.


I won't wash my car or mow my lawn with my GS but I will with my Rolex. They are both 40mm but the Rolex crystal is smaller due to the wider bezel. Anyway, my GS is the dressiest watch I have so try to (unsuccessfully) minimize scratches.


----------



## cvn72

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> I won't wash my car or mow my lawn with my GS but I will with my Rolex. They are both 40mm but the Rolex crystal is smaller due to the wider bezel. Anyway, my GS is the dressiest watch I have so try to (unsuccessfully) minimize scratches.


I think part of the reason why people don't wear their GS for these types of activities is that one of the selling points of the GS is the superb finishing. Wearing it like a tool watch will mar the finishing more quickly. Rolexes have a reputation for being very robust although I have yet to see any data that shows Rolexes are more durable than GS.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> I won't wash my car or mow my lawn with my GS but I will with my Rolex. They are both 40mm but the Rolex crystal is smaller due to the wider bezel. Anyway, my GS is the dressiest watch I have so try to (unsuccessfully) minimize scratches.


I would not wash my car with the Grand Seiko High Beat GMT above but would with the Rolex GMT.
I would not wash my car with a Rolex Datejust but would with a Grand Seiko Spring Drive GMT SBGE001*, which like the Rolex GMT, would only have character added to its appearance by a few scratches since both are tool watches; unlike the GS High Beat you posted and the Rolex Datejust I used as an example. It is always best to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.

*Grand Seiko Spring Drive GMT SBGE001


----------



## BigSeikoFan

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> Wouldn't you agree there is a huge difference between €600 euro for a complete service including polishing and parts, and $600 USD for polishing alone?


When Rolex offers a zaratsu polishing option, then we can conclude something more definitive. Until then, it's apples and oranges. But I believe you already knew that.

In other words, isn't the appropriate comparison the $100 fee Seiko USA charges?


----------



## BigSeikoFan

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> I won't wash my car or mow my lawn with my GS but I will with my Rolex. They are both 40mm but the Rolex crystal is smaller due to the wider bezel. Anyway, my GS is the dressiest watch I have so try to (unsuccessfully) minimize scratches.


I would be more worried about scratching my car's paint job if I wore a watch while washing the car. _Any_ watch...


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



BigSeikoFan said:


> When Rolex offers a zaratsu polishing option, then we can conclude something more definitive. Until then, it's apples and oranges. But I believe you already knew that.
> 
> In other words, isn't the appropriate comparison the $100 fee Seiko USA charges?


Toptishkin tried trivializing Seiko zuratsu polishing fees by comparing them to what Rolex charges for complete maintenance. The point I was making is that with Rolex you get full maintenance and restoration to like new condition whereas with grand Seiko almost the same amount only covers polishing. Indeed, he was comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps he doesn't know the difference between refinishing an full service.

As for your question, not really, because the Seiko USA refinishing clearly doesn't restore the GS to like new condition. I certainly wouldn't settle for it.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> Toptishkin tried trivializing Seiko zuratsu polishing fees by comparing them to what Rolex charges for complete maintenance. The point I was making is that with Rolex you get full maintenance and restoration to like new condition whereas with grand Seiko almost the same amount only covers polishing. Indeed, he was comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps he doesn't know the difference between refinishing an full service.
> 
> As for your question, not really, because the Seiko USA refinishing clearly doesn't restore the GS to like new condition. I certainly wouldn't settle for it.


I wonder if what Seiko USA does is refinishing to restore GS finish to like new Rolex condition?:-d


----------



## Tseg

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> I wonder if what Seiko USA does is refinishing to restore GS finish to like new Rolex condition?:-d


Earlier in this thread is an example of US Seiko "polishing". It is pretty pedestrian. Clearly it must go back to Japan for a "like-new" finish... So tack on $100+for insured shipping.


----------



## Tseg

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> I would not wash my car with the Grand Seiko High Beat GMT above but would with the Rolex GMT.
> I would not wash my car with a Rolex Datejust but would with a Grand Seiko Spring Drive GMT SBGE001*, which like the Rolex GMT, would only have character added to its appearance by a few scratches since both are tool watches; unlike the GS High Beat you posted and the Rolex Datejust I used as an example. It is always best to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
> 
> *Grand Seiko Spring Drive GMT SBGE001


While Zuratsu is a method of polishing the mirror finish, on my Rolex the finish is as pure as that on my GS. Call that apples to oranges if you like. Because of the multiple facets on a GS I could understand Zuratsu is the only way to accomplish the feat on a GS.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> Earlier in this thread is an example of US Seiko "polishing". It is pretty pedestrian. Clearly it must go back to Japan for a "like-new" finish... So tack on $100+for insured shipping.


I was making a joke at the expense of defenders of all things Rolex. Obviously the polishing US Seiko does is not going to match that of a new Rolex.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> While Zuratsu is a method of polishing the mirror finish, on my Rolex the finish is as pure as that on my GS. Call that apples to oranges if you like. Because of the multiple facets on a GS I could understand Zuratsu is the only way to accomplish the feat on a GS.


I understand the whats and whys of Zaratsu (not Zuratsu). I think your reply to my post is a non sequitur. The point of my post was there is a difference between what I believe is appropriate for a finely finished dressy sport watch such as GS High Beat GMT and Rolex Datejust) and a finely finished tool watch such as Rolex GMT II and the GS Spring Drive GMT model I used as an example. These are two examples each of two different classes of watch.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> I was making a joke at the expense of defenders of all things Rolex. Obviously the polishing US Seiko does is not going to match that of a new Rolex.


Call me whatever you like, but you can't refute the facts.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> Call me whatever you like, but you can't refute the facts.


My comment was not a specific criticism directed at you, I think you are taking it too personally, it was a mild silly jab not a statement of fact, and I am not attempting to refute any facts. Your reaction however reinforces the belief that some people are very defensive about Rolex.


----------



## Nokie

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



> My ding hurts me every time I look.


They would have to put me on life support if my watch OCD looked at that.......

You are good for toughing it out.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> My comment was not a specific criticism directed at you, I think you are taking it too personally, it was a mild silly jab not a statement of fact, and I am not attempting to refute any facts. Your reaction however reinforces the belief that some people are very defensive about Rolex.


You expect me not to take it personally when your statement was clearly directed at my post? Given the context, if not me, whom were you referring to as a "defender of all things Rolex." My reaction shows that I don't take well to condescending remarks. Rolex is doing just fine. They certainly don't need me to come to their defense. All I did was point out flawed reasoning and stated the facts and I get called a fanboy for doing so?


----------



## BigSeikoFan

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> While Zuratsu is a method of polishing the mirror finish, on my Rolex the *finish is as pure as that on my GS*.


Good point. When I handle a new Rolex, the finish certainly looks flawless. Maybe a loupe would show differences, but to the naked eye, I think you're dead on.



> Because of the *multiple facets* on a GS I could understand Zuratsu (sic) is the only way to accomplish the feat on a GS.


Yup, I believe you might be right here too...


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> You expect me not to take it personally when your statement was clearly directed at my post? Given the context, if not me, whom were you referring to as a "defender of all things Rolex." My reaction shows that I don't take well to condescending remarks. Rolex is doing just fine. They certainly don't need me to come to their defense. All I did was point out flawed reasoning and stated the facts and I get called a fanboy for doing so?


Yes I can expect you to not take it personally. It appears that nothing I can post is going to mollify you so I am going to give up trying. What I posted was a joke. You are overreacting to a joke. There was no flawed reasoning or facts to be pointed out. It was a joke, a mildly humorous comment at the expense of Rolex. There was no flaw in the reasoning that it is an obvious joke. There was no attempt to state as fact that a new Rolex's polish is only as good as a Seiko USA refinish. It was a joke. If you continue to claim otherwise I will consider it trolling and ignore you.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> Yes I can expect you to not take it personally. It appears that nothing I can post is going to mollify you so I am going to give up trying. What I posted was a joke. You are overreacting to a joke. There was no flawed reasoning or facts to be pointed out. It was a joke, a mildly humorous comment at the expense of Rolex. There was no flaw in the reasoning that it is an obvious joke. There was no attempt to state as fact that a new Rolex's polish is only as good as a Seiko USA refinish. It was a joke. If you continue to claim otherwise I will consider it trolling and ignore you.


Just so we're clear. My statement regarding flawed reasoning and facts was is in reference to my response to Toptiskin's post. Not yours. I wasn't offended by your post. (#148) Your low opinion of Rolex, which by all means you are entitled to, doesn't bother me in the least. What offend me was when you thought it funny to label me "a defender of all things Rolex." You might have meant it as a joke, but we both know at whose expense it was, and I don't appreciate it.

Now you may have meant it in a general sense. I may have misinterpreted your comment, but why the desire to instigate others?

Your ignore list must be pritty long by now. If you deem it necessary, feel free to add me as well.


----------



## consum3r

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nokie said:


> They would have to put me on life support if my watch OCD looked at that.......


CDO!
It must be in alphabetical order!

Whew. There. I feel better now.

Carry on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> Just so we're clear. My statement regarding flawed reasoning and facts was is in reference to my response to Toptiskin's post. Not yours. I wasn't offended by your post. (#148) Your low opinion of Rolex, which by all means you are entitled to, doesn't bother me in the least. What offend me was when you thought it funny to label me "a defender of all things Rolex." You might have meant it as a joke, but we both know at whose expense it was, and I don't appreciate it.
> 
> Your ignore list must be pritty long by now. If you deem it necessary, feel free to add me as well.


OK, now we are getting somewhere. I don't have a low opinion of Rolex, I actually regard many things about Rolex to be admirable. Rolex was my first love as far as watches go and I still like the old girl quite a bit. Sorry I offended you with the comment "a defender of all things Rolex" but it was a generalization not a specific comment about you. I don't know what more I can say to convince you that you were not singled out by my joke. I apologize for unintentionally giving such severe offense to you. I don't have an ignore list. I only ignore specific comments not specific posters. Putting you on an ignore list would only penalize me by depriving me of the value you bring to the forum. Can we drop this now?


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Nom de Forum said:


> OK, now we are getting somewhere. I don't have a low opinion of Rolex, I actually regard many things about Rolex to be admirable. Rolex was my first love as far as watches go and I still like the old girl quite a bit. Sorry I offended you with the comment "a defender of all things Rolex" but it was a generalization not a specific comment about you. I don't know what more I can say to convince you that you were not singled out by my joke. I apologize for unintentionally giving such severe offense to you. I don't have an ignore list. I only ignore specific comments not specific posters. Putting you on an ignore list would only penalize me by depriving me of the value you bring to the forum. Can we drop this now?


I figured you were generalizing and modified my thread as you were typing a response. Water under the bridge.


----------



## Nom de Forum

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



T1meout said:


> ........Now you may have meant it in a general sense. I may have misinterpreted your comment, but why the desire to instigate others?.......


It was a desire to engage in the type of playful teasing that goes on between friendly acquaintances that support different baseball teams.


----------



## PJ S

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

^
For God sake&#8230;would the pair of you go and have a good snog, and be done with it!
All this sexual tension isn't pretty for us bystanders to witness.
The bike sheds are that way ---->


----------



## samanator

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Hi guy, let's move on.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



PJ S said:


> ^
> For God sake&#8230;would the pair of you go and have a good snog, and be done with it!
> All this sexual tension isn't pretty for us bystanders to witness.
> The bike sheds are that way ---->


Voyeur.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



PJ S said:


> ^
> For God sake&#8230;would the pair of you go and have a good snog, and be done with it!
> All this sexual tension isn't pretty for us bystanders to witness.
> The bike sheds are that way ---->


Voyeur.


----------



## EAT 2824

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Interesting thread. I probably would only buy a GS if I ever move to Japan (your mileage may vary).


----------



## CitizenPromaster

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Am I the only one who is skeptical about this whole ordeal? We don't have any pictures of the watch being polished in Japan, so who is to say they didn't just use a new case, bezel and bracelet? The request was a restoration after all. The reason I say this is because they would have to polish off close to a millimeter for those deep dings. And how do you recreate - first flattened by Seiko USA - the sharp case edges, unless you again shave a lot of material off on all sides? You can't polish the material ON. But what I find most telling is that the 'bubble'/wavy/rippling surface around the GS logo was polished out by Seiko USA. Yet after coming back from Japan, the bubble surface magically reappeared, even INSIDE the G! How do you recreate a bubble surface around the polished letters GS, inside a square, with a polishing wheel? Or do you sincerely believe they recreated the bubbles using some type of pointy tool? Or is the complete logo square glued/soldered on?

I think WUS got hoaxed. It also explains why they can't put a price on the 'polishing' in Japan after all this time... Nice marketing stunt though.

EXHIBIT A

_







_Click this bar to view the original image of 1200x1093px.









_The bracelet clasp in original condition prior to any refinishing._










Click this bar to view the original image of 1572x1052px.









_The bracelet clasp after Seiko USA refinishing. The surfaces were much improved, though certainly not perfect, and did not consistently approximate 'original when new' condition. _










Click this bar to view the original image of 1572x1052px.









_The bracelet clasp after Seiko Japan refinishing. All surfaces are practically indistinguishable from original new condition._


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

That is a bold claim you make.
Did you account for the fact that the photographs weren't taken from the exact same angle and distance?
That grainy look around the GS logo can be restored by sandblasting or whatever the applied technique is called aswell.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Just look at the bubble surface around the GS logo on the clasp. No angle or distance can distort the information there. The least they did was use a new clasp, or a new clasp logo. Or they just used new parts for everything. Maybe not even to deceive, but maybe the request for 'restoration' or 'refinishing' got lost in translation.

So they masked the GS (and inside the G) and square edge and sandblasted (very coarse) around it, or sandblasted the whole logo and then repolished only the letters and frame???? You think that is likely?


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Well the only alternative would be deception, which is highly unlikely. People would catch on and it would lead to a scandal. Refinishing according to the Zaratsu katana polishing technique is very expensive. So, I assume that is exactly what they did.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

1. This is a sponsored forum, do the math. (Under Dutch law the opening post should have a header saying ADVERTORIAL)
2. It took 3 months and the non-biased, critical mind of a non-GS-fanboy to even question the matter. The only other critical remark made, and conveniently unanswered is the below:



moyski said:


> Wonderful! First comprehensive post of a Grand Seiko undergoing service in Japan. I am comforted to know that I can expect the same quality of work when my watch goes in for service.
> 
> Thank you for this very enlightening post!
> 
> Just curious though, could you tell that the watch went through refinishing compared to a brand new piece? *Thinner lugs, lug holes closer to the case lines, end links having more space between the case? There must have been some metal shaved off from polishing to remove those deeper scratches*.


Others repeated the question, no answer followed.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

I sent a GS to Japan with quite a few fairly obvious scratches. The watch came back looking as good as, if not better than brand new. Those pictures are legit. The cost for the Zaratsu is typically going to be close to the cost for a normal service but likely worth every penny.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Was it a brushed finish, like the watch on page 11?



GUTuna said:


> Here is the before.
> 
> View attachment 7195930
> View attachment 7195938
> 
> 
> And the after - polishing and service
> 
> View attachment 7195962
> View attachment 7195970
> View attachment 7195978
> 
> 
> The crystal was left in place. Otherwise the watch looks new!
> 
> As far as results, it was definitely worth the effort. The only downside is that shipping & handling was 30% of the cost of the polishing and service.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

I expect the same techniques to create the finish in the first place were applied to restore it. After all every watch starts out as a hunk of stainless steel. The watch should be a few milligrams lighter, but the finish has been restored to factory specifications. What's the point of spending US $400 if not.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

If a GS retails for $2,000 or even $3,000 or more, take away the AD margin, margin from Seiko JPN to Seiko USA and bring it down to the cost of the case and bracelet EXCLUDING the movement, do you believe the remaining amount exceeds the $600 quoted here for a polish? If the parts are still in stock, it would be cheaper AND much more time efficient to replace them. If they are out of stock, they can still resort to the same techniques that created the finish.

So let them tell us the measurements on an Original and this 'refinished' piece, people are dying to know, read through the replies!

Open je ogen. De reden dat dit soort zaken niet tot een schandaal leiden, is dat klanten zich WILLEN laten misleiden, ze hebben immers grof geld uitgegeven en stoppen hun ziel en zaligheid in een merk. Maar nogmaals, wat waren de instructies aan Japan? Restauratie, of repolish?


----------



## JoeOBrien

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

It says on the GS website that "the emblem on the band cannot be polished". So it's at least possible that they simply used a new part. Whether they told Topper or not.


----------



## PANICiii

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

The Clasp definitely look like a new part.

On another note... that restoration tentative from Seiko USA .. OUCH! such poor quality work and almost disrespect!! I would be very very disappointed, and pissed.


----------



## RMA

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Tseg said:


> My ding hurts me every time I look. I may have to have it taken care of during its next service.


That is a similar spot on my BRAND NEW SBGH051 that occured last night (don't ask) really made my evening to say the least except for mine is more so scratches 1 or two being slightly deeper than the other. I might send it off to Seiko of Japan as well if the Seiko moderator would like to PM me that would be appreciative !


----------



## GUTuna

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



CitizenPromaster said:


> Was it a brushed finish, like the watch on page 11?


My watch is the only one I see on Page 11. Are you comparing it to another watch? Happy to be more specific if I can.


----------



## Wysie

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Anyone has the contact for GS Japan in order to send in my watch for re-finishing? What're the estimated costs like? Thanks!


----------



## ravisuricata

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Wysie said:


> Anyone has the contact for GS Japan in order to send in my watch for re-finishing? What're the estimated costs like? Thanks!


I recently obtained official Seiko service and polish on my SBGA011 (Snowflake) through SeiyaJapan.com. The watch had approximately 10 years of daily wear. I was pleased with the price, communication and results. FWIW.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Refinishing will cost you approximately US$600, unless you are based in Asia.


----------



## Wysie

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



ravisuricata said:


> I recently obtained official Seiko service and polish on my SBGA011 (Snowflake) through SeiyaJapan.com. The watch had approximately 10 years of daily wear. I was pleased with the price, communication and results. FWIW.


Will Seiya help even if my Blizzard wasn't purchased through them? Do you mind sharing the quote? I doubt I'll do it anytime soon, but good to know when the time comes. The local (Singapore) service centre for Grand Seiko seems to have a horrible reputation so my only option is Japan.

@T1meout: Thanks! I am based in Asia .


----------



## ravisuricata

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Wysie said:


> Will Seiya help even if my Blizzard wasn't purchased through them? Do you mind sharing the quote? I doubt I'll do it anytime soon, but good to know when the time comes. The local (Singapore) service centre for Grand Seiko seems to have a horrible reputation so my only option is Japan.
> 
> @T1meout: Thanks! I am based in Asia .


Hi Wysie! I did not purchase that particular watch from Seiya, so my guess is that he would help you with your blizzard.

After shipping costs, the price for the service with a light polish was about 600 USD.

I wouldn't say that the polish made the watch like new, but it was definitely showing lots of wear before, and now it looks fantastic again. Only one particularly harsh scratch is still noticeable. Not bad after ten years of use!

Feel free to DM me, if you like!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



GUTuna said:


> My watch is the only one I see on Page 11. Are you comparing it to another watch? Happy to be more specific if I can.


My question was aimed at Foxman2k. The point being, it's easier (less time consuming) to redo a brushed finish like new, than a polished finish.

Anyway, I have no horse in this race. If people are happy to spend $600 dollar on a service + refinish, hooray for them.


----------



## Tom2517

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



CitizenPromaster said:


> If a GS retails for $2,000 or even $3,000 or more, take away the AD margin, margin from Seiko JPN to Seiko USA and bring it down to the cost of the case and bracelet EXCLUDING the movement, do you believe the remaining amount exceeds the $600 quoted here for a polish? If the parts are still in stock, it would be cheaper AND much more time efficient to replace them. If they are out of stock, they can still resort to the same techniques that created the finish.
> 
> So let them tell us the measurements on an Original and this 'refinished' piece, people are dying to know, read through the replies!
> 
> Open je ogen. De reden dat dit soort zaken niet tot een schandaal leiden, is dat klanten zich WILLEN laten misleiden, ze hebben immers grof geld uitgegeven en stoppen hun ziel en zaligheid in een merk. Maar nogmaals, wat waren de instructies aan Japan? Restauratie, of repolish?


Have to agree with you, if it retails at 3000, it cost less than 600 for Seiko to make it, and I'm talking about the whole watch. If Seiko has stock parts, it would make sense to just replace it.

And the reason why Seiko haven't really quoted a price for Zaratsu polishing? It's probably something they don't want to encourage people to do. I came from manufacturing, I can tell you no manufacturing companies likes to rework products or parts. We usually quote a really high price to discourage customers. Seiko has a dilemma, quote high they will get flamed and alienate customers, quote a reasonable price and you will see everyone sending their watches in for a new polish. And I'm sure Seiko don't want that.

Like any other manufacturing businesses, Seiko want their employees make new watches (products) to sell instead of spending a lot of time restoring already sold watches.


----------



## Xjzha1

Just asked for a quote to do the service from Melbourne Australia and they quoted $1100aud! Inc shipping.


----------



## Armstrong31

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*

Looking forward to the process and the potential cost of such an undertaking.


----------



## whineboy

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey-A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko's Polishing Service*



Armstrong31 said:


> Looking forward to the process and the potential cost of such an undertaking.


Remember, good forum etiquette is to use the search function to try to find answers to basic questions, rather than ask forum members to do the homework for you 

To help you out, the answer, from forum moderator Joe Kirk (in his April 2017 forum post), is:
*Q: How much does it cost to have Zaratsu finish restored on my Grand Seiko?*

*A:* Zaratsu finishing estimates are provided below. Please keep in mind these prices are subject to change at any time. Also, please keep in mind that in some instances, prices can very depending on the watch. The watch would have to be inspected before providing a final quote.

Case Only: $388.75
Bracelet Only: $337.50
Case and Bracelet: $591.25​
In the post Joe points out the watch must be returned to Japan for this work.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/faq-regarding-grand-seiko-service-4203962.html


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Took about 2 months for me. The results were basically flawless. Well worth it.


----------



## Memcdowe

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

I recently messaged Seiko USA regarding having my SBGX115 sent off for full case/bracelet refinishing and, within days, received the following response:

CASE ONLY US$388.75
BRACELET ONLY us$337.50
CASE & BRACELET US$591.25

Zaratsu polishing service must be sent to Japan and there are shipping, handling, insurance and custom charges apply (approx. US$150.00)

It was very easy to get them to provide me with a quote. As to why they won't quote a flat rate price, I'd imaging it varies depending on the case/bracelet as the level of finish and amount of polishing varies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## whineboy

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*



Memcdowe said:


> I recently messaged Seiko USA regarding having my SBGX115 sent off for full case/bracelet refinishing and, within days, received the following response:
> 
> CASE ONLY US$388.75
> BRACELET ONLY us$337.50
> CASE & BRACELET US$591.25
> 
> Zaratsu polishing service must be sent to Japan and there are shipping, handling, insurance and custom charges apply (approx. US$150.00)
> 
> It was very easy to get them to provide me with a quote. As to why they won't quote a flat rate price, I'd imaging it varies depending on the case/bracelet as the level of finish and amount of polishing varies.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same prices as Joe's, imagine that. Good to see GS is consistent.


----------



## bobski

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*



moyski said:


> I keep reading that titanium is hard to polish that's why you rarely see a polished titanium watch. But somehow Seiko managed to do it. Maybe what they were referring to is that it would be tough to find someone who could repolish the snowflake. I don't see a reason why Seiko can't refinish their titanium watches when they were able to manufacture them.


Off topic.

This is odd as I own a fully polished Ti Orient and it is not only beautiful (darker Ti colour makes it less blingy than SS) but was very affordable.










Anyway, thoroughly enjoying this thread and it's a great idea.


----------



## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*



bobski said:


> Off topic.
> 
> This is odd as I own a fully polished Ti Orient and it is not only beautiful (darker Ti colour makes it less blingy than SS) but was very affordable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, thoroughly enjoying this thread and it's a great idea.


What's the reference on that?


----------



## bobski

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 9/19]*



Foxman2k said:


> What's the reference on that?


ER2F004W but comes in a few variations.

SeriousWatches (Orient AD and all round amazing customer service providers) have this and the brown dial silver hands in stock. No affiliation just a happy repeat customer.

One word of warning... whilst the watch is pretty darn amazing, the strap (so called leather) is terrible. But at such an amazing price/value I am more than happy with that.

Any other questions, just let me know.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk


----------



## G.Chris

Wow, SEIKO Japan did an incredible job!


----------



## Kasset1975

This may be useless info, but when I sent a GS in to Japan (about 2 years ago) for polishing the bezel that I managed to scratch slightly, they came back and asked if I wanted it polished or new bezel fitted. The difference was around £30-50 if I remember correctly. I opted for the new part - so they will tell you if it's to be polished or replaced.

I've since sold the watch and papework so can't be exact regarding prices.


----------



## Jezza

There's no question to me as I look at my new SBGR251 that GS does an amazing job polishing the case. The finish is really remarkable...but, I question placing so much value in something as fleeting and temporary as a few shiny facets on the outside of a watch case. A year of daily wear will quickly erode a flawless polish--any kind of polish, for that matter. It starts with hairline swirls, and goes downhill from there. No amount of careful wear will prevent such degradation. So, why advertise so heavily on the most transient characteristic of a watch? When the finish dims, the watch's ability to accurately tell the time remains. Since the Swiss have upped their game in terms of timekeeping, whether internally (Rolex) or through official third party certifications (Omega and METAS), it seems like GS is relying more on shiny surfaces to distinguish their mechanical timepieces. I'm a fan of GS, btw; this is just an observation.


----------



## whineboy

Earlier this year T1meout started an interesting thread with some Grand Seiko videos:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/gs-mechanic-quartz-maintenance-videos-4029322.html

Unfortunately, some of the links are now broken.

If memory serves me, one of the broken links showed GS artisans refinishing a watch and band. The amount of work involved was substantial and I can understand why it's so costly.


----------



## Vig2000

Jezza said:


> There's no question to me as I look at my new SBGR251 that GS does an amazing job polishing the case. The finish is really remarkable...but, I question placing so much value in something as fleeting and temporary as a few shiny facets on the outside of a watch case. A year of daily wear will quickly erode a flawless polish--any kind of polish, for that matter. It starts with hairline swirls, and goes downhill from there. No amount of careful wear will prevent such degradation. So, why advertise so heavily on the most transient characteristic of a watch? When the finish dims, the watch's ability to accurately tell the time remains. Since the Swiss have upped their game in terms of timekeeping, whether internally (Rolex) or through official third party certifications (Omega and METAS), it seems like GS is relying more on shiny surfaces to distinguish their mechanical timepieces. I'm a fan of GS, btw; this is just an observation.


I could easily say what's the point of washing my car when it's just going to get dirty again? Why should I bother cleaning my house when it will just get dirty again? See the pattern? There are some that value the craftsmanship that goes into Zaratsu polishing no matter how transient or fleeting it may be. After all, Zaratsu ain't your run-of-the-mill polish that some two-bit jeweler can do. There's a reason that only a select few can Zaratsu. Yeah, a polish erodes. And a house gets dirty. And so does a car. Also, GS has always been about the timekeeping. It's not that they're focusing on "shiny surfaces" and relegating timekeeping to the wayside as you imply. Take a look at the accuracy rating for any given GS regardless if it's Spring Drive, Hi-Beat, mechanical, or quartz, and you'll easily that such ratings often exceed Swiss timekeeping/COSC standards.


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## Jezza

I don't really follow...are you saying when your house or your car get dirty, you need to pay $600 and part with them for several months? If not, how is the comparison even remotely similar? Of course, the polishing is very laborious and time-intensive. It obviously requires skill. But, it's the most transient part of the watch. Surely, you didn't pick out your car solely because it was the shiniest one on the lot. As for the GS standards, they are dated. Yes, they seem to be more stringent than COSC, but I was referring to Rolex's internal -2/+2 cased movement standard, and the METAS certification Omega uses. How is the GS standard superior? My point is a number of Swiss watches in the same price bracket as GS have improved their standards. They have also significantly improved their warranties. A well polished case and bracelet might not be sufficient to compete.


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## Vig2000

Jezza said:


> I don't really follow...are you saying when your house or your car get dirty, you need to pay $600 and part with them for several months? If not, how is the comparison even remotely similar? Of course, the polishing is very laborious and time-intensive. It obviously requires skill. But, it's the most transient part of the watch. Surely, you didn't pick out your car solely because it was the shiniest one on the lot. As for the GS standards, they are dated. Yes, they seem to be more stringent than COSC, but I was referring to Rolex's internal -2/+2 cased movement standard, and the METAS certification Omega uses. How is the GS standard superior? My point is a number of Swiss watches in the same price bracket as GS have improved their standards. They have also significantly improved their warranties. A well polished case and bracelet might not be sufficient to compete.


You mean to tell me that costs and wait times associated with the luxury watch industry are often high and unreasonable? As Mr. Wonderful would say, "Oh, the horror!" What do you expect other than high prices and long wait times within the luxury watch space? Needless to say, this is certainly no surprise as WIS have been launching the same belabored and cliched complaints since time immemorial. It's really nothing short of expected, and it's not like you can buy a Groupon for 50% off Zaratsu polishing.

And is this now turning into a GS vs. Rolex/Omega thread? If so, I'm not even remotely interested. The one and only thing I have to say about that is regardless of what Rolex and Omega are doing, it's not like GS has disgustingly inaccurate timekeeping. I think they hold their own just fine.


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## Memcdowe

Jezza said:


> There's no question to me as I look at my new SBGR251 that GS does an amazing job polishing the case. The finish is really remarkable...but, I question placing so much value in something as fleeting and temporary as a few shiny facets on the outside of a watch case. A year of daily wear will quickly erode a flawless polish--any kind of polish, for that matter. It starts with hairline swirls, and goes downhill from there. No amount of careful wear will prevent such degradation. So, why advertise so heavily on the most transient characteristic of a watch? When the finish dims, the watch's ability to accurately tell the time remains. Since the Swiss have upped their game in terms of timekeeping, whether internally (Rolex) or through official third party certifications (Omega and METAS), it seems like GS is relying more on shiny surfaces to distinguish their mechanical timepieces. I'm a fan of GS, btw; this is just an observation.


My new Hi Beat is losing less than one second daily while 9F Quartz has lost around one second over the past month. Not sure how to get much better than that. Also, if you peruse GS's website, the polished finish is hardly more heavily advertised than the movements. In fact, looking at the home page via my iPhone, it does not appear to be mentioned at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jezza

Vig2000 said:


> You mean to tell me that costs and wait times associated with the luxury watch industry are often high and unreasonable? As Mr. Wonderful would say, "Oh, the horror!" What do you expect other than high prices and long wait times within the luxury watch space? Needless to say, this is certainly no surprise as WIS have been launching the same belabored and cliched complaints since time immemorial. It's really nothing short of expected, and it's not like you can buy a Groupon for 50% off Zaratsu polishing.
> 
> And is this now turning into a GS vs. Rolex/Omega thread? If so, not even remotely interested. The one and only thing I'll have to say about that is regardless of what Rolex and Omega are doing, it's not like GS has disgustingly inaccurate timekeeping. I think they hold their own just fine.


Lol--Groupon would be a welcome addition to watch servicing! My point, however unsuccessful it seems to have been, is the comparison between a dirty house or car and getting a watch serviced doesn't seem relevant. As for Rolex and Omega, your personal interest was not my concern. Rather, these are the only other luxury watch brands I own, and can use as a basis of comparison. I appreciate all that goes into a Grand Seiko, or I wouldn't have purchased one. Every watch collector--or accumulator--has a different set of priorities they would like manufacturers to pursue. While I like the look and unique style of Grand Seiko, I don't place a very high value on the polish.


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## cuthbert

Jezza said:


> I don't really follow...are you saying when your house or your car get dirty, you need to pay $600 and part with them for several months? If not, how is the comparison even remotely similar? Of course, the polishing is very laborious and time-intensive. It obviously requires skill. But, it's the most transient part of the watch. Surely, you didn't pick out your car solely because it was the shiniest one on the lot. As for the GS standards, they are dated. Yes, they seem to be more stringent than COSC*, but I was referring to Rolex's internal -2/+2 cased movement standard,* and the METAS certification Omega uses. How is the GS standard superior? My point is a number of Swiss watches in the same price bracket as GS have improved their standards. They have also significantly improved their warranties. A well polished case and bracelet might not be sufficient to compete.


I don't know about METAS but I still have to find out a Rolex customer who had his watch regulated in warranty because it gained 3 seconds per day. Taking into account that it comes from a company who claims to have invented the first GMT watch (actually it was Glycine), the first professional diver (it was Blancplain), the first automatic movement, the first waterproof case I wouldn't take their statements too seriously.

Just fools believe what Rolex say.


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## centurionavre

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Just dropped my Grand Seiko GMT at Topper for Zaratsu polishing. Couldn't wait to have it back!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Fireice113

Typically a lurker on the forms but documenting this process and presenting it to everybody is absolutely amazing. Seeing the process and comparing it to sending the watch back to Seiko Japan has provided tons of information. I would have never thought Id find something as detailed as this but they do say you can find anything on the Internet nowadays!


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## SISL

This is a fun thread. I wonder how much of the initial production cost goes into the polishing, but a $600 price tag doesn't seem completely outrageous to me.


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## Indyboot

Can anyone confirm successful hairline scratch removal from a zaratsu polished surface by way of a simple Cape Cod cloth?


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## T1meout

Indyboot said:


> Can anyone confirm successful hairline scratch removal from a zaratsu polished surface by way of a simple Cape Cod cloth?


Use with a cape cod cloth will undoubtedly remove hairline scratches, but simultaneously ruin that signature zaratsu finish. I'd strongly urge you to reconsider.


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## Foxman2k

T1meout said:


> Use with a cape cod cloth will undoubtedly remove hairline scratches, but simultaneously ruin that signature zaratsu finish. I'd strongly urge you to reconsider.


100% agreed.


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## T1meout

TomEspensen said:


> Great story. Thanks for sharing...


Sigh, and yet again another speed poster.


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## Indyboot

T1meout said:


> Use with a cape cod cloth will undoubtedly remove hairline scratches, but simultaneously ruin that signature zaratsu finish. I'd strongly urge you to reconsider.


Thanks,... has anyone actually tried a Cape Cod cloth on their zaratsu finished case?

And what results can you share if so?


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## BarracksSi

Compiling the important posts in this thread since none of them were ever added to the opening post:

Topper's watch before being sent out:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/zar...vice-[update-2-5]-2371082-2.html#post20380954

After a basic refinishing at the NJ service center:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/zar...vice-[update-2-5]-2371082-4.html#post22003602

After returning from full-on refinishing in Japan:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/zar...vice-[update-2-5]-2371082-8.html#post25514578

And the sticky post about Grand Seiko servicing and costs:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/faq-regarding-grand-seiko-service-4203962.html


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## vincentle7914

i used to use cape cod , and tape , 🙂


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## Indyboot

vincentle7914 said:


> i used to use cape cod , and tape , 🙂


Thanks, what kind of results did you get, and did you see any noticeable change to the zaratsu finish?


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## SJACKAL

Jezza said:


> I don't really follow...are you saying when your house or your car get dirty, you need to pay $600 and part with them for several months? If not, how is the comparison even remotely similar? Of course, the polishing is very laborious and time-intensive. It obviously requires skill. But, it's the most transient part of the watch. Surely, you didn't pick out your car solely because it was the shiniest one on the lot. As for the GS standards, they are dated. Yes, they seem to be more stringent than COSC, but I was referring to Rolex's internal -2/+2 cased movement standard, and the METAS certification Omega uses. How is the GS standard superior? My point is a number of Swiss watches in the same price bracket as GS have improved their standards. They have also significantly improved their warranties. A well polished case and bracelet might not be sufficient to compete.


It is refinishing the flagship model of a watch company, not running it under a watertape and wiping it down. Dude! It cost $1000 to respray my old car's paintwork and its the lower end of pricing, a few thousands to repaint a house, etc. Come on man.


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## SJACKAL

Indyboot said:


> Can anyone confirm successful hairline scratch removal from a zaratsu polished surface by way of a simple Cape Cod cloth?


Humble opinion and advice not to. The case is a mix of multi faceted mirrored surfaces and brushed surfaces. Amatuerish polishing may risk dulling those lines of the case.


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## bluedialer

I would never take something like cape cod cloth to a GS. Those cloths are for those with bad eyes and/or low attention or care to detail, who simply want a generally polished surface, and not a (near) flawlessly polished one. Not for anybody aiming to preserve something truly fine and nuanced such as black polishing.


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## whineboy

bluedialer said:


> I would never take something like cape cod cloth to a GS. Those cloths are for those with bad eyes and/or low attention or care to detail, who simply want a generally polished surface, and not a (near) flawlessly polished one. Not for anybody aiming to preserve something truly fine and nuanced such as black polishing.


^^ this. I have a can of Maas metal polish that I have used (with a tissue or q-tip) to polish my Hamiltons and Stowas. After finding some microswirlies on my SBGJ001 I thought about trying it. For once I made a good decision - the micros aren't so bad, but if the polish dulls the zaratsu I'll kill myself. So, I didn't try it. Too much downside, too little upside. The plan is to live with wear that will come until each of my GS's makes its 4-7 year trip to Japan for service, then I'll have each repolished by GS.


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## SJACKAL

whineboy said:


> ^^ this. I have a can of Maas metal polish that I have used (with a tissue or q-tip) to polish my Hamiltons and Stowas. After finding some microswirlies on my SBGJ001 I thought about trying it. For once I made a good decision - the micros aren't so bad, but if the polish dulls the zaratsu I'll kill myself. So, I didn't try it. Too much downside, too little upside. The plan is to live with wear that will come until each of my GS's makes its 4-7 year trip to Japan for service, then I'll have each repolished by GS.


Also guys, if you look under a jeweler's loupe, you can see the GS's mirror finish isnt truly 'mirror' there is actually some texture underneath that mirror, maybe that is what that gives its subtle lustre. I am not sure if the cape cloth, or any abrasive paste or method will destroy that if you rub it hard or deep enough. Don't touch it.


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## SJACKAL

sorry double posting


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## Foxman2k

*Re: The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5]*

Agreed. GS can polish and bring it back to new. But I wouldn't touch it myself.


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## eric198324

I've been internally wrestling with age old dilemma, to Zaratsu polish or not to Zaratsu polish, my SBGV009. I acquired this watch in good used condition, but showing a bit of wear. I'd absolutely love to see it brought back to like new condition, but I am totally confounded as to how it can be polished while still retaining all of it's beautiful lines. I've attached a couple photos to show how intricate the case it and how wonderful the detailed lines are, especially around the bezel and lugs. If these wonderful details and lines will be lost in the Zaratsu polishing process, I'll elect to not have the watch touched.

I am really struggling to understand if it's possible to know how the watch will look without actually putting my faith in the Grand Seiko god's and letting them polish the case? If anyone can shed any insight, it would be greatly appreciated.


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## T1meout

If anyone is able to retain those crisp lines, it would have to be GS. I’m certain the Zaratsu master polishers will take good care of your watch and that you’ll be impressed with the quality of work.


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## eric198324

I appreciate the reply and words of encouragement. I think you can feel the direction I "want" to go. I know I stated this above, but after studying this watch extensively I am astounded the Grand Seiko masters are able to re-polish a watch with such intricate details and minute tolerances between the surfaces and angles. Boggles the mind!


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## mxh6229

Hey Eric,

Do a instagram search for lapinist_watchrestoration

He does restorations.


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## eric198324

^ I appreciate the note and suggestion. I'll keep him in mind for other watches. I am really deciding to between feeling comfortable with a master craftsman at Grand Seiko performing the work or not, those are really the only two options I would consider. I am sure there are other highly capable restoration professionals out there, but I am going to choose a Grand Seiko expert, possibly an individual who had a hand in producing the watch in the first place, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


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## Drinchalla

I picked up a VERY used SBGE033 eight days ago (my 1st GS) I fell in love instantly. After 5 days of wearing and Zero deviation I decided to send it off to Japan through my AD for service and polishing; that was 2 days ago and still a month away from the end of the 3 year warranty. In hind sight I wish I had taken more than 2 pics of it and read this entire thread before hand, I would have taken a Vernier to it to see how much metal does come off from the Zaratsu polishing. Oh well. I'm assuming I will be asked about a bezel replacement too, this was a daily beater to someone (LE sacrilege). I will post what pics I have and more info as my journey unfolds.


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## mxh6229

Please post pictures when it arrives back


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## miken

mxh6229 said:


> Please post pictures when it arrives back


I'll be interested to hear of your experience as well. I have that model watch, and I gouged the bezel. I would like to replace the bezel because the deep scratch drives me crazy!


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## heavyweather

Nice to hear my Snowflake could theoretically be reconditioned and returned to its original glory. I have to say I'm slightly fond of all the marks of wear. There is a paradoxical and perverse delight to be had in taking something so valuable, wearing it casually, picking up scratches, scrapes and so on. It is most definitely -my- watch now.


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## zewill

miken said:


> I'll be interested to hear of your experience as well. I have that model watch, and I gouged the bezel. I would like to replace the bezel because the deep scratch drives me crazy!


Yeah, any news on that?


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## Calefornia

miken said:


> I'll be interested to hear of your experience as well. I have that model watch, and I gouged the bezel. I would like to replace the bezel because the deep scratch drives me crazy!


Would also love an update! DM sent!

A bit about my story. I picked up an SBGJ203 (Heritage GMT - Black) in Japan a few months ago in what looked like excellent condition to the untrained eye. Little did I know, there was actually multiple hairline scratchs in the sapphire and one on the inside angle of the bezel that I was informed by the GS Boutique in Beverly Hills, could've only been done by a diamond? Does anyone have any information or experience on this? GS sapphire can only be scratched by diamond? Bizarre that could've happened. Probably still would've purchased the watch anyways but would've had some extra bargaining power. 
Additionally while in Japan, days after I bought the watch, I put a small chip in the bezelo| I was thankful to read in this thread that the bezel can simply be replaced at some point as I don't think even the master polishing could take it out.

Cheers,


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## krayzie

I haven't read the entire thread yet but GS standard overhaul service in Japan already includes a minor polishing step. When I got my SBGR001 back from them 2 years ago I thought I was seeing things cuz it looked a little newer than when I first dropped it off for service.

Fast forward to 2019 when I was translating GS Japanese website then I noticed it does indeed includes a minor polish as part of the overhaul.

$600USD for full polishing service is pretty good.


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## reuben3

Can anyone kindly re-host the polishing pictures? They all seem to be dead.


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## waltermitty

reuben3 said:


> Can anyone kindly re-host the polishing pictures? They all seem to be dead.


this is quite a lengthy thread. perhaps you may want to identify the posts where you think the missing pictures are
instead of leaving it a little open ended. I see many photos from my browser when scrolling through the thread


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## Roningrad

Wow. I didn’t know they include the minor polish. I sent a GS for an overhaul and added polishing on my instructions. That’s an additional cost on top of the overhaul cost 😢. 

This would be a helpful info down the road. Thanks guys! Cheers!


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## bigbombula

The pictures after the watch came back from the US based service center and the pictures from when the watch came back from Japan are all dead. I can't see them either.



waltermitty said:


> reuben3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone kindly re-host the polishing pictures? They all seem to be dead.
> 
> 
> 
> this is quite a lengthy thread. perhaps you may want to identify the posts where you think the missing pictures are
> instead of leaving it a little open ended. I see many photos from my browser when scrolling through the thread
Click to expand...


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## bigbombula

Were you satisfied with the minor polish?

QUOTE=krayzie;50996939]I haven't read the entire thread yet but GS standard overhaul service in Japan already includes a minor polishing step. When I got my SBGR001 back from them 2 years ago I thought I was seeing things cuz it looked a little newer than when I first dropped it off for service.

Fast forward to 2019 when I was translating GS Japanese website then I noticed it does indeed includes a minor polish as part of the overhaul.

$600USD for full polishing service is pretty good.[/QUOTE]


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## JustaSec123

Has anyone recently had this service done? How long did it take from the time you sent it? And you order/schedule this through Seiko USA?


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## darry123

JustaSec123 said:


> Has anyone recently had this service done? How long did it take from the time you sent it? And you order/schedule this through Seiko USA?


I'm in Canada and I've been told that the zaratsu polish has to be done in Japan


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