# STOLEN WATCH, SELLER BE AWARE eBAY BUYER cesnul.rock2012



## writingtime_1

Stolen Tudor Black Bay 79850 Blue Dial Model 79850, Serial I757047. 

This buyer requested a refund after 3 weeks the watch was delivered July 23rd, 2020 and reason for being was " I was traveling finally have time to inspect the watch, watch was not keeping time and defective." The usual buyer biased eBay rolled the case in his favor and I refunded him the money but he never shipped me back the watch. eBay is now claiming I volunteered issued the buyer a refunded without receiving the watch.


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## dg8dg7

That is disgusting. I won't sell watches on eBay now because the buyer bias is getting ridiculous. It's their excuse to not invest and put the effort in performing proper due diligence. Really sorry mate, hope that this works out for you.

Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk


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## Rolexplorer

Lots of folks have been getting "free watches" via fleecebay by using this trickery.


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## writingtime_1

dg8dg7 said:


> That is disgusting. I won't sell watches on eBay now because the buyer bias is getting ridiculous. It's their excuse to not invest and put the effort in performing proper due diligence. Really sorry mate, hope that this works out for you.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk


Thank you for your words. I just wanted to make awareness of all private sellers out there to be cautious of this eBay policy. I went to a local police station and filed a report. When I talked to the eBay representative over the phone (which I have recorded) saying " you should call your bank to dispute the charge "  It makes me look like a fool with their indirect messages to say " inability to do so may make the system decide to just refund the buyer without returning the item." Anyone is reading this please be aware!
P.S this guy said "I have been traveling was his excuse" in the middle of pandemic?! I just can't believe eBay would favor the buyer on this case again.


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## writingtime_1

Rolexplorer said:


> Lots of folks have been getting "free watches" via fleecebay by using this trickery.


I am not surprised. Their long-winded response saying if I don't take action the refund will be initiate without the buyer sending the item back. However, the only "action" to the open case has initiated a refund. The best part is eBay told me they did not release the fund that I should reach out to Paypal.


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## 3366carlos

Sorry o hear that


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## mikkolopez

Been hearing a lot of these eBay cases lately. Don’t know about other platform but this puts me off selling anything for now outside of a face to face which is difficult nowadays.
Feel for the OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## writingtime_1

mikkolopez said:


> Been hearing a lot of these eBay cases lately. Don't know about other platform but this puts me off selling anything for now outside of a face to face which is difficult nowadays.
> Feel for the OP.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just be careful if you do want to sell something on eBay. Seems like it's happening more on a one to two thousands purchases. I would choose chrono24 if I have to sell another watch in the future.


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## Yamidan

Ouch, that sucks, Mate. I had a similar thing happen but with eBay Australia the once the buyer initiates the refund request, eBay sends them a prepaid postage label with tracking to return the item. The refund only happens when the original seller marks the label as received and the tracking shows the item as returned to the sellers address. 
I had one guy send back an empty box and another guy alter the label to send it to another address. Both times eBay sided with me after I provided proof, but I did have to do it all withing 48 hours of the tracking showing delivered or it auto defaults to a refund.


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## writingtime_1

Yamidan said:


> Ouch, that sucks, Mate. I had a similar thing happen but with eBay Australia the once the buyer initiates the refund request, eBay sends them a prepaid postage label with tracking to return the item. The refund only happens when the original seller marks the label as received and the tracking shows the item as returned to the sellers address.
> I had one guy send back an empty box and another guy alter the label to send it to another address. Both times eBay sided with me after I provided proof, but I did have to do it all withing 48 hours of the tracking showing delivered or it auto defaults to a refund.


Errr, the usual suspect of eBay buyers. Ever since the guy requested a refund I had escalated the case to costumer service which they promised me the fund will be on hold until I received the product. After a few day the case is opened, I have a notification from Paypal said eBay had released the hold. 😅


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## Yamidan

writingtime_1 said:


> Errr, the usual suspect of eBay buyers. Ever since the guy requested a refund I had escalated the case to costumer service which they promised me the fund will be on hold until I received the product. After a few day the case is opened, I have a notification from Paypal said eBay had released the hold. ?


If you've got it all in writing keep chasing eBay. Sound like the buyer was just harassing them so some rookie probably manually intervened. If it's in writing and they never issued a return postage label i'd say they're on the hook. Also follow up with Paypal and your bank. The sooner it's on record that your disputing a fraudulent charge the better the chance you have of seeing the money again.


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## Yamidan

writingtime_1 said:


> Errr, the usual suspect of eBay buyers. Ever since the guy requested a refund I had escalated the case to costumer service which they promised me the fund will be on hold until I received the product. After a few day the case is opened, I have a notification from Paypal said eBay had released the hold. 😅


You could also file a Police report for fraud. You have the guys name and address too. That will help with the bank.


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## MBolster1611

Will PayPal help? Assuming they were involved to begin with. I thought the buyer had to prove they shipped the item back with tracking.


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## Clinkinfo

Hold on a minute. I’m not saying this isn’t bad for the seller here, but can we get clarification on some things so the rest of us understand?

the typical eBay dispute/resolution process is:

1. Buyer initiates a claim In the resolution center
2. You respond in the resolution center
3. You agree to take the watch back and issue a refund (because you’ll lose anyway if eBay is asked to step in)
4. eBay gives the buyer a return label (that the seller pays for)
5. You get the watch back
6. You issue a refund when it’s returned in the same condition you sent it in


what didn’t happen here that allowed the buyer to have the watch AND have the money? That’s specifically what the eBay process is designed to prevent.


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## Clinkinfo

MBolster1611 said:


> Will PayPal help? Assuming they were involved to begin with. I thought the buyer had to prove they shipped the item back with tracking.


In order to get a refund the buyer has to prove they shipped the item back. I THINK this seller refunded all the money before the buyer shipped anything back, and I THINK they may have done it outside of the resolution center. But I've asked for clarification above, because this scenario cannot happen if you follow the eBay process.


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## writingtime_1

Clinkinfo said:


> In order to get a refund the buyer has to prove they shipped the item back. I THINK this seller refunded all the money before the buyer shipped anything back, and I THINK they may have done it outside of the resolution center. But I've asked for clarification above, because this scenario cannot happen if you follow the eBay process.


Thanks for your response. I certainly do not hope this would happen to you or anyone, which is the purpose of this post. You emphasize on 'THINK' that I had volunteered initiated the refund to the buyer without receiving the product, I'm happy to send you my screenshot with both eBay representative, Paypal, and recorded phone conversation with them if you need reassurance.


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## Clinkinfo

writingtime_1 said:


> Thanks for your response. I certainly do not hope this would happen to you or anyone, which is the purpose of this post. You emphasize on 'THINK' that I had volunteered initiated the refund to the buyer without receiving the product, I'm happy to send you my screenshot with both eBay representative, Paypal, and recorded phone conversation with them if you need reassurance.


But I Still don't even Know what happened!

I really don't understand what you are saying, you didn't answer anything about the process you followed. The eBay process is simple, open a dispute, ship the item back, issue a refund. It's actually SUPER safe and I listed it above in the prior post.

I have to say "think" because you don't actually clearly say you did those things. And you didn't clarify that either with this post, I don't need screenshots, but clarifying "yes I did that, or no I didn't" would help a lot.

is it that simple? You refunded the buyer outside the resolution center and without getting the watch back first?

if that's the case, you did voluntarily issue a refund without having the watch be returned. Something you NEVER should have done and something eBay would not tell you to do. But if you did that, how would the watch legally be considered stolen?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just do not understand what you did from this thread. Everyone is trying to give you advise, but it's impossible to give accurate advice if it's not clear what you actually did.


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## fish70

writingtime_1 said:


> Stolen Tudor Black Bay 79850 Blue Dial Model 79850, Serial I757047.
> 
> This buyer requested a refund after 3 weeks the watch was delivered July 23rd, 2020 and reason for being was " I was traveling finally have time to inspect the watch, watch was not keeping time and defective." The usual buyer biased eBay rolled the case in his favor and I refunded him the money but he never shipped me back the watch. eBay is now claiming I volunteered issued the buyer a refunded without receiving the watch.


Didn't eBay tell you to wait to get the watch back before you sent a refund?


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## Calier

Clinkinfo said:


> But I Still don't even Know what happened!
> 
> I really don't understand what you are saying, you didn't answer anything about the process you followed. The eBay process is simple, open a dispute, ship the item back, issue a refund. It's actually SUPER safe and I listed it above in the prior post.
> 
> I have to say "think" because you don't actually clearly say you did those things. And you didn't clarify that either with this post, I don't need screenshots, but clarifying "yes I did that, or no I didn't" would help a lot.
> 
> is it that simple? You refunded the buyer outside the resolution center and without getting the watch back first?
> 
> if that's the case, you did voluntarily issue a refund without having the watch be returned. Something you NEVER should have done and something eBay would not tell you to do. But if you did that, how would the watch legally be considered stolen?
> 
> I'm not trying to be difficult, I just do not understand what you did from this thread. Everyone is trying to give you advise, but it's impossible to give accurate advice if it's not clear what you actually did.


I think it is pretty clear that the OP messed up by issuing a refund before the watch was back in his possession. OP obviously didn't deserve this and the fraudster is a scumbag. Fraudsters prey on people who are nice. Sorry this happened to the OP and thankful he shared his story--A reminder to be vigilant


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## Clinkinfo

Calier said:


> I think it is pretty clear that the OP messed up by issuing a refund before the watch was back in his possession. OP obviously didn't deserve this and the fraudster is a scumbag. Fraudsters prey on people who are nice. Sorry this happened to the OP and thankful he shared his story--A reminder to be vigilant


glad it's clear to you, the last response still seems to be blaming eBay and claiming it was all done according to their instructions.

at the end of the day, eBay is probably one of the safest ways to do transactions. Yes, as sellers, you will lose almost every buyer case, and that sucks, so you may as well accept all returns. And every now and then, someone will ship back an empty box (I've been told anyway, never happened to me), but eBay will fix it with seller protection. But it only works when you follow the eBay process. THat should be the lesson here, follow the eBay process, don't do anything outside of eBay and you're protected the entire way through as a buyer and seller.

I don't believe that's the OP's intended message, but I honestly can't tell. I don't think there's any basis for a police theft report though if the OP voluntarily (and indirectly unconditionally) refunded money. I also don't think there's much eBay or PayPal can do to fix it, but again, not knowing specifically what was done no one can give any real applicable advice.


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## DonJ53

My own rules, regardless of ebay or Paypal is refund after return and only then if in the same condition as sent (inside and out). I take plenty pics of both. It's that simple.


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