# Sticky  Confused ? Laco - Laco by Lacher - Lacher >>>>



## Guest

Shortly after WUS opened the Official Forum questions came up what the different quality levels of watches are being released under the Laco, Laco by Lacher, or Lacher name.

And here is the answer I got form Laco:

G e r m a n:

Die Firma heißt Erich Lacher Uhrenfabrik. Intern existiert die
Unterteilung in "LACO by Lacher" und Lacher Werbeuhren + Privat Label.
"LACO by Lacher" ist hierbei die gehobene Qualität. Zumeist mechanische
Uhrwerke, auch mal mit Schweizer Quarzwerken. Edelstahl und Saphirglas ist
auch fast immer Pflicht. Diese Qualität findet auch im hochwertigen
Privat Label Bereich statt.
Leider sind in der Vergangenheit auch preiswerte Uhren im Bereich
Werbeuhren mit "LACO by Lacher" bedruckt worden. Sogar sehr preiswerte
Quarzuhren. Dieses Problem ist bekannt und muss in Zukunft abgestellt
werden, um nicht weiter für Verwirrung zu sorgen.
Werbeuhren sollen in Zukunft mit "Lacher Pforzheim" gekennzeichnet werden.

E n g l i s h 

The manufacturer`s name of all those watches mentioned above is ERICH LACHER UHRENFABRIK. Under that "umbrella" there are subdivisions
- Laco by Lacher
and
- Lacher Werbeuhren + Privat Label (Werbeuhren = Lacher Merchandise Watches)
Laco by Lacher always represents high-grade quality, most of those are mechanical, some (to a lesser amount) are equipped with swiss quartz movements.

Laco try to fit all their watches with sapphire crystal, stainless steel cases are a must to. You will find the same quality range if we talk about high-quality private label watches.

Unfortunately there have been watches in the past which have been labeled/imprinted with "Laco by Lacher" - even very cheap quartz watches. Laco is aware of that problem and is going to to take corrective action. In the future merchandise watches will be labeled "Lacher Pforzheim".

I think we all got to know what Laco by Lacher quality wise means, if some (new) members do not know I'd like to draw their attention to our PilMil Forum to have a look on our "Laco Specials".


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## JCJM

Well...

I dont know about you guys but to say that this kind of name-games are confusing to the clients - paying customers - is an understatement. If a company wants to be more widely acknowledged and build a reputation of sorts it has to really, really, really streamline everything it says and how it portrays itself and be as systematic about it as possible.

Brands are not made - they are born. - Their fathers name is differentiation; their mothers name systematization. They live in a town called continuity.

Sure you can have sub-brands such as "Tudor" but not until you´ve become "Rolex". Not doing so is... well, in my opinion maybe not a wise way of using marketing money on a marketplace such as *this*.

Laco by Lacher? - who? Sorry to say this out-loud but for a typical customer "Lacher" means nothing. The only connotation I get from it is misspelled "milk" in Spanish (leche). In real world the only thing Laco is truly known for is the 1940´s B-Uhr´s. As surprising as it may seem not a single manufacturer has based it´s brand building yet around this strong corner stone. Not even IWC even though they have based their image more or less around the "pilot´s watch" theme. I understand that in times past it might not have been a good marketing decision to transfer differentiating value from something as the "B-Uhr" but this is 2009, not 1979, and B-Uhr has become one of the most legendary icons of wristwatch history. You may not like what I am about to say but fact is that without this connection as one of the original manufacturers of the B-Uhrs Laco is just another small player on the market place.

Sure you can begin to build a brand based on what ever you choose to like but why not use something that you are already known for? A company cannot change it´s past; it should use it to it´s advantage.

Bottom line is this. - Do not forget Lacher the person but do not try to build your brand around him. Instead use that strong asset you already have: B-Uhr. Which slogan echoes with more authority and differentiating brand power, "Laco by Lacher" or "Laco - the original makers of B-Uhr"? This especially if you are trying to gain customers from WIS. The general public may not know what a B-Uhr is but a picture of an old tool as the back ground of marketing material goes a long way and it differs noticeably from the usual "pretty boy" style of most contemporary watch makers.

You should really focus on this elsewhere too than just on the header of this webpage. *** Differentiation - Systematization - Continuity *** That´ll do it.

Just my 002


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## wtrenkle

Good lessons for building brand names, thanks. Rarely, names and surnames work well as a brand (Examples: HP, DELL, Ford, Siemens, Bosch, ..., you name it).
However, I regard _*"Laco by Lacher"*_ being a good differentiator, and it shouldn't interfere with the former (good) perception of *"Laco" *("B" watches). I associate quality, good design, robustness and other good attributes with this brand.
All the best
Wolfgang


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## JCJM

You are welcome.

How ever, I respectfully disagree what comes to "Lacher". It would be a good differentiator if it would create positive connotations in the minds of the clientele.

*You* associate it with quality, good design, robustness etc. That is understandable and acceptable. But, how about the paying customers?

I am afraid that most of them have no idea what you are talking about and hence I dont see a point in trying to transfer positive differentiating value from "Lacher" to Laco as there is not such value to begin with; this I firmly believe. But, it does not matter really what you or I think but it really does matter what the actual paying and potential *customers* think. To me "Lacher by Laco" sounds the equivalent of Laco by Lirpake or Laco by Lplish. Not very convincing I am afraid.

If the customers dont have a clue about what you are talking about you of course have the option of teaching them. Problem is customers are not easily motivated to learn new connotations if their minds are already set on something else.

Educating the customers in this time and age where there are a gazillion intervening and competing advertising messages around you all the time will be both extremely expensive, difficult and time consuming (you see daily about 5000 to 8000 ads depending on your living habitat, now tell me how many you remember seeing today???).

Assuming things and thinking that everybody else thinks the same way is a sure route to trouble. You have to ASK the customer what he feels is cool, do not assume.

I dont know whom you are targeting your products ti but if it is WISses in general and not the bigger buying public Lacher IMO is an unnecessary complication. But, as stated this is just an opinion from one man and as we all know we all have our opinions and tend to like ours better than others.

I wish you success what ever it is you choose to do.


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## wtrenkle

Well, that's fine. The brand is, indeed, a very important factor that does or does not lead to success in the market - fully agree with you. 
Therefore I think such a discussion is good.

Btw, I *AM A PAYING CUSTOMER* and not on Laco's payroll 

All the best
Wolfgang


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## JCJM

Good for you Wolfgang, I am a prospective client b-)


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## Janne

Laco was founded by Mrs Frieda Lacher (and Ludwig Hummel) 1925.
Eric Lacher took over the business 1936. The B-uhren were developed/made under his ownership. (Lacher & Co). But the watches always had the name Laco or Laco by Lacher. 
So it is a bit confusing.

I see a problem if Laco advertises under the "the original maker of the B-uhr".

It will bring up the fact that these watches were used to navigate during WW2 (think London Blitz, Coventry etc)
Maybe not a good idea. "Can of worms" etc etc

On a similar note- imaging Boeing advertising "Boeing- we delivered sucessfully to Nagasaki and Hiroshima and ended WW2 !"
Just not terribly PC!

Edit: Is this the only watch company that was founded by a woman? I think so!

And the Private Label/advertising watches - if I lived in Europe, I for sure know what I would use in the Marketing of my Clinic!!!
They do make some cool PL/Ad watches.


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## Guest

Don`t know who "you guys" are ? However, the WIS do know what Laco (shortcut for Lacher & Co) is about.


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## JCJM

Well Janne, I strongly disagree what comes to the usability of the B-Uhr in marketing.

Mike, a true Mil-Pil aficionado for sure knows the whole story, your average Joe nor average WIS (like me) does not. 

Anyways, as I dont have anything more to say to this matter I will end by re-stating that it is not what the firm thinks is cool or not, it is what the customers think is cool what is important. So, you need to have a firm foundation in knowing who your customers are. - If you try to satisfy multiple audiences at the same time chances are you will fail.

:thanks


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## Janne

Strange, my answer of 5 hours ago is missing. If it has been removed by the Mods, sorry, remove it again.

JCJM. I am not sure which country you live in, but in UK many people over 60 years of age have a very strong negative feeling about Germany. I felt this many times while living in UK, as I have a German/Austrian heritage.
I even had some Veterans telling me that Berlin should have been treated like Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I am not kidding. A lot of the old boys still "live" in the war.

I think it is sometimes neccesary to tone down the company's history not to get a negative feedback. 
We WIS get excited over an original B-uhr, or a clock from an U-boot. But trust me, there are still people out there that remember. 
This applies of course to old people from both sides of the conflict. You do not want to discuss a watch worn by a crewmember from a B-17, or a Mustang, with my father. 

For us "young ones", second generation post WW2, it is history. Not for the older ones.
Now I am being controversial, stepping in the deep water/fire:
How would todays US people feel if a company advertised "maker of the watch worn by the 11/9 pilots" ?
I know an act of terrorism and war are not the same, but the resulting bereavement is just as deep.
Do not shoot me for those thoughts. Please.
But it is not a good idea yet for Laco to publicly go the B-uhr route.

Too many born in UK up to the late 1930ies remember the German Bombers. The fear. The loss of property and civilian lives.


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## Ernie Romers

It is controversial, and you might go a bit too far to compare it to 11/9, but I believe you're honestly seeking for a strong illustration for what you try to say.

Here's my story.

My father was very interested in WWII and knew a lot about it from reading hundreds of books and visiting the Belgian border (D-Day) during his life. He was like a walking encyclopedia, I tell you.

He had his feelings against Germany, but he also made German friends during the years. One of those friends became his best friend and remained his best friend untill my father died. He was 14 years old when the war started, so he very well knew what was going on, he became also kind of active (not in battle) and got wunded by a granate. 

Wished I could have discussed this subject with him, but I bet he would not mind to be faced products from the history. I know he was not offended when I became a dealer for Junkers watches a couple of years ago.

He would have minded if a company would use glorious words in their ads about those 5 long years though.

May he rest in peace, I miss him more than ever. But let's not continue this discussion.


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## Janne

|> !.

Now I am confused. I tried to locate the PB site of Laco, to check out some things ,including the Laco-Laco by Lacher bit, but can not fing it anymore????
Have they changed in the restructuring, so they no longer make the "Company-logo watches" ?


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## Guest

Sailing through troubled waters needs to focus on core business.
Peter already mentioned: "Unfortunately there have been watches in the past which have been labeled/imprinted with "Laco by Lacher" - even very cheap quartz watches. Laco is aware of that problem and is going to to take corrective action. In the *future* merchandise watches will be labeled "Lacher Pforzheim"."


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## Janne

If I understand you correctly, Mike, they have (for now?) stopped making the company-logo watches.
OK, so I have to look elsewhere for my X-mas prezzies!


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## the.hatter

Janne said:


> Strange, my answer of 5 hours ago is missing. If it has been removed by the Mods, sorry, remove it again.
> 
> JCJM. I am not sure which country you live in, but in UK many people over 60 years of age have a very strong negative feeling about Germany. I felt this many times while living in UK, as I have a German/Austrian heritage.
> I even had some Veterans telling me that Berlin should have been treated like Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I am not kidding. A lot of the old boys still "live" in the war.
> 
> I think it is sometimes neccesary to tone down the company's history not to get a negative feedback.
> We WIS get excited over an original B-uhr, or a clock from an U-boot. But trust me, there are still people out there that remember.
> This applies of course to old people from both sides of the conflict. You do not want to discuss a watch worn by a crewmember from a B-17, or a Mustang, with my father.
> 
> For us "young ones", second generation post WW2, it is history. Not for the older ones.
> Now I am being controversial, stepping in the deep water/fire:
> How would todays US people feel if a company advertised "maker of the watch worn by the 11/9 pilots" ?
> I know an act of terrorism and war are not the same, but the resulting bereavement is just as deep.
> Do not shoot me for those thoughts. Please.
> But it is not a good idea yet for Laco to publicly go the B-uhr route.
> 
> Too many born in UK up to the late 1930ies remember the German Bombers. The fear. The loss of property and civilian lives.


^ old thread I know 

I've got a Laco auto, ETA movement, B-type dial that is set to deliver today, can't wait!

Before I purchased it, I searched around in these forums because I had reservations as to whether or not it was socially appropriate to even wear a b-uhr type watch. Didn't find too much on the topic, but appreciate a post like this talking about it. Thanks Janne!

As for brand, my opinion as a watch enthusiast that is new to the b-uhr type watches, Laco by Lacher is fine by me. ;-) If I was going for true historic accuracy, I would have gone for a sterile dial.


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## Chris-John

Dual branding always seemed to be a bad idea. There used to be Datsun by Nissan, but eventually they dropped that. If Lacher were supposedly a name of prestige that added something, then why dilute it selling crap watches under the name Lacher Pforzheim? On the other hand, if Lacher adds nothing in the customer's mind, why confuse the brand by appending "by Lacher" after it? Just stick with Laco.


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## watchma

stuffler said:


> Peter already mentioned: "Unfortunately there have been watches *in the past* which have been labeled/imprinted with "Laco by Lacher" - even very cheap quartz watches. Laco is aware of that problem and is going to to take corrective action.


I've just been wandering about on amazon.DE (like you do) and was surprised and a bit shocked to see some Laco By Lacher and simply Lacher watches for sale on there for as little as €29 !?!?
there's even a very tasteful one with green dial and pool balls at each quarter @ 25euro 
and a very tempting (lol) 3 pack all with different dials for 90 euro 

Are these fakes or something ? or is a cheap arm of Laco banging cheap quartz out as a sideline?

(I won't link directly, but you only have to go on amazon.de and search for "Laco" and the flick through the three pages of "Laco" in there (page 2 and especially page 3)
Some are the obvious Laco's we know and see on Laco's website , but just take a look at some of those..... They clearly have Lacher or Laco by Lacher on the dial :think: and all appear to be from the same retailer (something media gmbh)


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## StufflerMike

> Are these fakes or something ? or is a cheap arm of Laco banging cheap quartz out as a sideline?


Reading this thread will answer your question.


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## watchma

stuffler said:


> Reading this thread will answer your question.


Well I did before I posted, - and I've just re-read it - but I think something got lost in the english translation of the 1st/2nd post?

I took


> Unfortunately there have been watches in the past which have been labeled/imprinted with "Laco by Lacher" - even very cheap quartz watches. Laco is aware of that problem and is going to to take corrective action. In the future merchandise watches will be labeled "Lacher Pforzheim".


To mean "there had been watches out there using Laco's name without their consent (ie fakes)" , I now take it to mean they were genuine lower end product but Laco didn't want them associated with the higher end Laco product ?

and this is three years since the start of this thread?.... so has Laco really took corrective action or did this retailer have HUGE stocks of the the cheapies and is still selling them through

Its damn confusing to say the least


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## StufflerMike

"fakes" is just your interpretation, nobody was talking about fakes. What Peter wanted to say at that time is that there have been low quality watches in the "Laco by Lacher" range as well and that Laco did regret. Laco by Lacher are NOS and sold on ebay by various sellers but not by Laco anymore. And yes, apparently there are huge stocks. Nothing confusing as far as I can tell.


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## watchma

yes of course it was my interpretation  I simply interpreted the wording the wrong way - it was a big ambiguous - all cleared up now


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## Timekeeper00

JCJM said:


> Well...
> 
> I dont know about you guys but to say that this kind of name-games are confusing to the clients - paying customers - is an understatement. If a company wants to be more widely acknowledged and build a reputation of sorts it has to really, really, really streamline everything it says and how it portrays itself and be as systematic about it as possible.
> 
> Brands are not made - they are born. - Their fathers name is differentiation; their mothers name systematization. They live in a town called continuity.
> 
> Sure you can have sub-brands such as "Tudor" but not until you´ve become "Rolex". Not doing so is... well, in my opinion maybe not a wise way of using marketing money on a marketplace such as *this*.
> 
> Laco by Lacher? - who? Sorry to say this out-loud but for a typical customer "Lacher" means nothing. The only connotation I get from it is misspelled "milk" in Spanish (leche). In real world the only thing Laco is truly known for is the 1940´s B-Uhr´s. As surprising as it may seem not a single manufacturer has based it´s brand building yet around this strong corner stone. Not even IWC even though they have based their image more or less around the "pilot´s watch" theme. I understand that in times past it might not have been a good marketing decision to transfer differentiating value from something as the "B-Uhr" but this is 2009, not 1979, and B-Uhr has become one of the most legendary icons of wristwatch history. You may not like what I am about to say but fact is that without this connection as one of the original manufacturers of the B-Uhrs Laco is just another small player on the market place.
> 
> Sure you can begin to build a brand based on what ever you choose to like but why not use something that you are already known for? A company cannot change it´s past; it should use it to it´s advantage.
> 
> Bottom line is this. - Do not forget Lacher the person but do not try to build your brand around him. Instead use that strong asset you already have: B-Uhr. Which slogan echoes with more authority and differentiating brand power, "Laco by Lacher" or "Laco - the original makers of B-Uhr"? This especially if you are trying to gain customers from WIS. The general public may not know what a B-Uhr is but a picture of an old tool as the back ground of marketing material goes a long way and it differs noticeably from the usual "pretty boy" style of most contemporary watch makers.
> 
> You should really focus on this elsewhere too than just on the header of this webpage. ** Differentiation - Systematization - Continuity ** That´ll do it.
> 
> Just my 002


nice!


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## JCJM

Timekeeper00 said:


> nice!


Thanks @Timekeeper00 !

It´s a been a long, long, time since I´ve last visited WUS and to my surprise noticed that something I wrote 12 years ago had surfaced...

Appears LACO listened, and for that I applaude them!


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## Laco Pforzheim

JCJM said:


> Thanks @Timekeeper00 !
> 
> It´s a been a long, long, time since I´ve last visited WUS and to my surprise noticed that something I wrote 12 years ago had surfaced...
> 
> Appears LACO listened, and for that I applaude them!


Yeah since 2009 some things at Laco changed  Good to hear that you like the changes


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## JCJM

Laco Pforzheim said:


> Yeah since 2009 some things at Laco changed  Good to hear that you like the changes


Yes, I did like them!

Thank you!  

Jussi


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## humbleon

Laco Pforzheim said:


> Yeah since 2009 some things at Laco changed  Good to hear that you like the changes


I have often thought0 about squiring a Laco Type A or Type B, but wondered about if there were some issues socially with wearing such a watch. It was pretty interesting to see the discussion from 12 year ago up until recently. Glad there is a place for discussion here.


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## Chris-John

humbleon said:


> I have often thought0 about squiring a Laco Type A or Type B, but wondered about if there were some issues socially with wearing such a watch. It was pretty interesting to see the discussion from 12 year ago up until recently. Glad there is a place for discussion here.


Socially? What do you mean... because it's a WWII watch, is that it?


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## humbleon

Yes, If you read the early posts on the thread, it was talked about howolder folks who remember WWII vs looking at it as history would find it polarizing. I lived in the UK in the early 90s and definitely heard that kind of sentiment. I don't have a problem myself but was curious if people being offended by an item worn by one side or the other during war was prevalent. Obviously most people don't have any issue.


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## Chris-John

humbleon said:


> Yes, If you read the early posts on the thread, it was talked about howolder folks who remember WWII vs looking at it as history would find it polarizing. I lived in the UK in the early 90s and definitely heard that kind of sentiment. I don't have a problem myself but was curious if people being offended by an item worn by one side or the other during war was prevalent. Obviously most people don't have any issue.


I've never heard of anyone having an issue. And if you take the "A" dial, its plain black, arabic numerals and a triangle at 12. Now look at a British field watch, like the W10. Same thing, black dial, arabic, triangle at 12. Certainly the British watch is a lot smaller if authentic in size, but it would hard to be offended because it's German.

The "B" dial is a bit more distinctive, but it's been copied so many times, it would hard to be offended. Like the Seiko SNK809, Orient RA-AC0H04Y10B Citizen AW1365-19P, Hamilton pilot, and pretty much every mainline German brand from Glashutte, to Laco to IWC to Stowa to Steinhart.


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## Schlafftablett

Regarding the link between Laco and the Luftwaffe, I agree that it could be a very useful marketing tool. The caveat, of course is that doing so would require people to think critically about the difference between mechanical innovation and manufacturing precision by a small company at the behest of the popular government and the psychotic mass murder who ran it at the time. Within certain groups it can be possible but among the general public, less so. To wit, I own a gun store and perhaps likely due to the nature of the product, The majority of our clientele don’t seem to take issue with who may have used what specific firearm and to what end while the design and execution of the machines are regularly held as nearly infallible.


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