# New Doxa on the way?



## labratpip (Nov 24, 2019)

Posted about 2 hours ago on Doxa's Instagram. Any word on this years release?


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

Probably just a 300 50th anniversary case with the turquoise dial.


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

I'd take a guess its a non-limited edition of the 300 in Pro/Searambler/Sharkhunter/Aquamarine and Divingstar variants.

The limited ed 300s sell like hotcakes when they come up on ebay etc, Doxa probably want to grab some of that market.


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## Delta Watch USA (Jul 22, 2020)

I like that blue, that is a fun color. I think for most watch black is the most popular dial color, for me black is my default, that said, this blue is very cool


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

If its a re-release of the 50th and Professional is available, my new current model 300T will be going right back. Price depending of course. 

I get now why everyone is fed up with the games that Doxa plays.


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## Chronomatic (Jan 12, 2013)

I’m excited for the non classic variants. Love me some Caribbean. And I think this is a good move by them. Better than the plastic watch. 


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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

Oooooooh-my........GOD of watchessssss and all that is Holy.....sssssss
Can it Really be???????
I honestly cannot believe it............two weeks ago I was seriously thinking about buying the Conquistador.......but couldn't bring myself paying the Grand price for a second choice model....I would have bought the 50th or black lung,...........anyway a model with a crystal that shows dial distortion just like on that very photo.....
And I just bought the Samui instead.....and I'm really digging it.......But I said to myself if ever Doxa release anything like the one's I just mentioned.......
Oh dear...... What if they have the Professional and the Rambler???
My name is Otis and I'm a Watchaholic and gonna end up homeless.......
Please if there is any News about this post it here.
Regards


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## bricem13 (Apr 6, 2010)

ross2187 said:


> If its a re-release of the 50th and Professional is available, my new current model 300T will be going right back. Price depending of course.
> 
> I get now why everyone is fed up with the games that Doxa plays.


If not limited edition then we will all be happy and it means the game is ending (former game of releasing limited edition after limited edition). Would be a good news.

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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

bricem13 said:


> If not limited edition then we will all be happy and it means the game is ending (former game of releasing limited edition after limited edition). Would be a good news.
> 
> Envoyé de mon Mi A2 Lite en utilisant Tapatalk


We could only hope.

Of note, it appears to have Metric bezel.. ?

I think thinking it'll be a 50th release in the Aquamarine colorway. They've done the Pro, Sharkhunter, and Searambler. Maybe next year they'll do Divingstar and Caribbean, all LE's.

This way they can keep the current lineup of 300t's continuously available at a reduced price.

Either way, if this version is only metric I'll probably sit it out.


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## micky67 (Aug 25, 2018)

i'd say 90% its a sub 300 re release. great watch but they stuffed it up with the crystal, it is too small and distorts a lot of the dial circumference, makes the dial look smaller as well


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

micky67 said:


> i'd say 90% its a sub 300 re release. great watch but they stuffed it up with the crystal, it is too small and distorts a lot of the dial circumference, makes the dial look smaller as well


Can you elaborate on how the crystal is "too small"? It either fits the case or doesn't and leaks?


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## SERGEANT_AT_ARMS (May 3, 2009)

@ross2187 The dial and crystal are on the small side when compared to other modern subs. The shape of the crystal on the 300 distorts the outer edge of the dial making the dial seem even smaller. It doesn't bother me as I like the vintage asthetics but it isn't everyones cup of tea.


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

Understood. I admit I like the flat crystal of my current 300T.

I've got a domed dial on BB58 and it doesn't seem tooooo distorted. ?



SERGEANT_AT_ARMS said:


> @ross2187 The dial and crystal are on the small side when compared to other modern subs. The shape of the crystal on the 300 distorts the outer edge of the dial making the dial seem even smaller. It doesn't bother me as I like the vintage asthetics but it isn't everyones cup of tea.


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

If it’s a non LE of the 50th Anniversary then it’s a cash grab, and that’s OK with me. They will likely be getting some of my cash.

A preowned 50th is getting hard to find.


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

I hope it's not an aquamarine blacklung.


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## labratpip (Nov 24, 2019)

Looks like it will start at 10:00 CET. I'll admit, I do prefer the flat sapphire on my 300t and I would only consider jumping on a limited release of another searambler.......and if I'm being completely honest, I really only want the orange boxed second hand. I wish they would've included that on the regular 300t searambler


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## FinishingDutch (Jul 9, 2020)

I'm reaaaalllly loving my 300T professional and will definitely get a second Doxa. This might complicate that choice considerably.

Man, do I love that shot with the distortion. It looks like you're looking at a pool with that color; very nice.


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

I don't know if these prices are USD och AUD since it's found on au.doxawatches.com but here are the new models.


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## userchrist (Jan 16, 2020)

I think it is a Doxa 300 (no t) aquamarine (metric bezel - so no aqualung-logo) perhaps with the old clasp (because the new one is too fat, to the sinner case and too expensive ;-), limited to 300 pieces. The price would be between 1890€ and 2390€, but rather in the 2000€ area.

And in the next time, the other new-colours follows and then the same watches again with aqualung logo 😁
So work for the next few years...
But I think the old historical form fits best to the old historical colors...
We will see...


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

In 1967, DOXA launched the revolutionary SUB concept, considered to be the first truly purpose-designed diver's watch accessible to a broader public. The radical innovations it introduced at the time soon made it the benchmark for professionals, too. Water-resistant to 30 bar, roughly equivalent to a depth of 300 meters, it was the first to feature a unidirectional bezel with a dual scale for depth and dive time to calculate a safe ascent without decompression stops. Most radical of all: the orange dial which greatly improved readability underwater. The SUB 300's 42.5 mm case is made from the highest quality 316L stainless steel. The three-hand self-winding movement holds the prestigious COSC Certified Chronometer certification guaranteeing precision, robustness and reliability. It also provides a 38-hour power reserve. The date window is positioned at 3 o'clock. The SUB 300 naturally features the famous unidirectional rotating bezel, a DOXA patent, with the dual indication of dive time in minutes and depth in meters for calculating no-stop decompression dive times. Featuring a screw-down crown, its water-resistance is rated to 300 meters, or approximately 980 feet. As a nod to its heritage, today's SUB 300 is topped with a scratch-resistant sapphire crystal with an anti-reflective treatment. It has the same domed shape as the plexiglass on the 1967 original. All dive-related markings feature a Super-LumiNova® luminescent coating to ensure excellent readability in low-visibility conditions. Starting 2020, the SUB 300 will be available in 6 colors. It can be specified either with the iconic 'beads of rice' stainless steel bracelet or a sporty rubber strap, with distinctive DOXA cues on both sides, to match the color of the dial. The folding clasp features the exclusive DOXA fish symbol and has an adjustable diving extension to accommodate the thickness of a wetsuit with the stainless steel bracelet.


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)




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## userchrist (Jan 16, 2020)

Oh, Im wrong.
But I don’t understand, how you sell a limited edition in 2017. And 3 years later you sell the same watch in a non limited edition 😁 that is really serious.


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

userchrist said:


> Oh, Im wrong.
> But I don't understand, how you sell a limited edition in 2017. And 3 years later you sell the same watch in a non limited edition ? that is really serious.


Yeah, I think my 50th anniversary Sharkhunter just lost a lot of value but to be honest I don't really care. I want a Caribbean or a Diving Star!


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## FinishingDutch (Jul 9, 2020)

Doxa is being weird again. One step forward, one step back and one step sideways.

I love that they're offering a certified chronometer, but why on earth would you downgrade the depth rating to a 'mere' 300 meters. Love the domed sapphire on this as it's obviously meant to be a fully retro watch.

All in all, I think my second Doxa will still be a 300T. I'm not that much into accuracy to want a 600 euros price bump over a 300T.


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## userchrist (Jan 16, 2020)

I think, if you need a toolwatch, you will buy the 300t. 
The 300 is for good looking 😄


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Very nice but I seem to recall Doxa categorically stating that the 50th anniversary editions would be limited to 300
... then came the add-on Black Lung limited editions
... now we have this new unlimited edition of the SUB300.
This leaves me wondering if trust is the real limited edition here?
On the plus side, it should ensure the availability of spare parts going forward which would be good
... and that Diving Star looks very nice as would the Sharkhunter with a white minute hand

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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

That’s a good way to piss off those who bought the current 300T, not getting anymore of my money.


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## userchrist (Jan 16, 2020)

Pegasus said:


> That's a good way to piss off those who bought the current 300T, not getting anymore of my money.


The 300t is much cheaper and a daily rocker, I don´t think you want to do hardwork with this doomed glass from the 300.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

userchrist said:


> The 300t is much cheaper and a daily rocker, I don´t think you want to do hardwork with this doomed glass from the 300.


Appreciate that but they 'upgraded' the 300T after 6 months, how long will this stay as it is? Will the early adopters get a surprise after 6 months with improvements also.

They seem to be all over the place with their releases.

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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

adg31 said:


> Very nice but I seem to recall Doxa categorically stating that the 50th anniversary editions would be limited to 300
> ... then came the add-on Black Lung limited editions
> ... now we have this new unlimited edition of the SUB300.
> This leaves me wondering if trust is the real limited edition here?
> ...


Yes, to be honest I am slightly annoyed, I ordered the Sub300 Anniversary back in 2016, I gave the deposit on May and received the watch on December...the understanding back then was it should have been a very special limited edition to celebrate the birth of the Doxa submariner.

In the end the watch was highly successful, they made 300 pros, 300 sharkhunters, 300 searambler, but additional 800 Aqualungs, all sold out. However it appears the new management is quite greeedy and they want to milk the design a little more. BTW it´s also COSC certified like the original, but the price increased of about 500 euros.

Perhaps Doc was right regarding the takeover.



FinishingDutch said:


> Doxa is being weird again. One step forward, one step back and one step sideways.
> 
> I love that they're offering a certified chronometer, but why on earth would you downgrade the depth rating to a 'mere' 300 meters. Love the domed sapphire on this as it's obviously meant to be a fully retro watch.
> 
> All in all, I think my second Doxa will still be a 300T. I'm not that much into accuracy to want a 600 euros price bump over a 300T.


The Sub300 is 300WR, it doesn´t make any sense to "upgrade" the depth rating as it didn´t make any sense to make the 300T more than 300WR. And to be honest nobody will ever go that deep with either the 300 or the 300T therefore the topic is purely for desk divers who buy watches according to specs written paper or on the internet.


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

FinishingDutch said:


> Doxa is being weird again. One step forward, one step back and one step sideways.
> 
> I love that they're offering a certified chronometer, but why on earth would you downgrade the depth rating to a 'mere' 300 meters. Love the domed sapphire on this as it's obviously meant to be a fully retro watch.
> 
> All in all, I think my second Doxa will still be a 300T. I'm not that much into accuracy to want a 600 euros price bump over a 300T.


It's not a downgrade, it's just a lack of a HRV that makes this 300m instead of 1200m. Why would you ever need more than 300m anyway? In my opinion it's just one less hole in the case and one less part that could possibly fail.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

cuthbert said:


> Yes, to be honest I am slightly annoyed, I ordered the Sub300 Anniversary back in 2016, I gave the deposit on May and received the watch on December...the understanding back then was it should have been a very special limited edition to celebrate the birth of the Doxa submariner.
> 
> In the end the watch was highly successful, they made 300 pros, 300 sharkhunters, 300 searambler, but additional 800 Aqualungs, all sold out. However it appears the new management is quite greeedy and they want to milk the design a little more. BTW it´s also COSC certified like the original, but the price increased of about 500 euros.
> 
> Perhaps Doc was right regarding the takeover.


It seems to be a case of making it up as they go along. 
I'd previously asked if I could get the datewheel on my 50th anniversary Searambler changed as the text was left justified and clashed with the curvature of the glass - but that wouldn't be possible as it was a limited edition now out of production and they had to take what ETA sent them.
Yet here is an all new raft of identical watches - albeit with the depths in Metres rather than feet.
I'd be interested to see if they use the same sailboat case back and clasp - so far they've not shown these - and if it is still an ETA COSC calibre or if they've gone to Sellita.









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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

€...2500 ??
€......2500........
Seriously...........I thought € 1850 was a lot already 😢🤮😵
Oh well......this goes right on the pile of stuff thats just to........... expensive.

On a positive note I Really,really do like my Samui and truth be told I always viewed myself as an "Affordable Dive Watches Exclusively" kinda guy.....and I honestly do not want to change that.
Besides buying a Watch or Watches in this price range is a fun killer ( of course that is just from my financial standpoint )
Enjoy your Doxa's guys


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## Sambation (Apr 6, 2013)

Pegasus said:


> That's a good way to piss off those who bought the current 300T, not getting anymore of my money.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Curious what pisses you off about this? Relatively new 300T owner myself and I think that there are enough differences between these models.


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Seems too high, with that said the Pro is already sold out. What do I know.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

Sambation said:


> Curious what pisses you off about this? Relatively new 300T owner myself and I think that there are enough differences between these models.


Agreed, to be honest I was waiting they fixed the endlinks and centered the he-valve to pull the trigger on a 300T Sharkhunter.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Sambation said:


> Curious what pisses you off about this? Relatively new 300T owner myself and I think that there are enough differences between these models.


Maybe you're right, I'm just a bit grumpy with Doxa, they seem to just mess about.

They create the 300T again, in 6 months an HRV is added and a better clasp. In their words they 'upgraded' it.

If the 300T is a remake either the HRV is true to the original or not.

What will they do to the 300 six months down the line?

Just seem to be making things up as they go along. Are we beta testers?

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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Time and Tide review. I'm more confused now. Is it a non LE redux of the 50th or a slimmed down version of the recent 300T?









HANDS-ON: The new DOXA SUB 300 is slimmer, COSC-certified and more refined than its tool watch origins - Time and Tide Watches


In 2020 we see the new DOXA SUB 300, a watch that has us very excited. It's better from almost every angle, and here's why.




timeandtidewatches.com


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

jcombs1 said:


> Time and Tide review. I'm more confused now. Is it a non LE redux of the 50th or a slimmed down version of the recent 300T?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like the carbon copy of the 2016 Sub300 50th anniversary with the Jenny fish crown, metric bezel and a serialized number.

So long for "limited edition"!


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## Sambation (Apr 6, 2013)

Pegasus said:


> Maybe you're right, I'm just a bit grumpy with Doxa, they seem to just mess about.
> 
> They create the 300T again, in 6 months an HRV is added and a better clasp. In their words they 'upgraded' it.
> 
> ...


Yep, I can agree with that sentiment. I got one without the HRV and older clasp. I could care less about the HRV but the clasp thing is disappointing. Still loving my 300T Pro.


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## micky67 (Aug 25, 2018)

ross2187 said:


> Can you elaborate on how the crystal is "too small"? It either fits the case or doesn't and leaks?


the crystal on the re issue has a moderate curvature which ends up distorting a lot of the outer circumference of the dial, the original 60's model had a sharper curvature and so had almost no distortion effect on the dial. makes the dial look a lot larger. i will take pics for example when i get c hange


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

cuthbert said:


> Looks like the carbon copy of the 2016 Sub300 50th anniversary with the Jenny fish crown, metric bezel and a serialized number.
> 
> So long for "limited edition"!


Different font as well but you're right, it's very close to the 50th.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Sambation said:


> Curious what pisses you off about this? Relatively new 300T owner myself and I think that there are enough differences between these models.


For me it's the inconsistency:
This is a once in a lifetime 50th anniversary special edition...
It will only ever be available in the three initial colours in line with our history...
These are two statements that I have had from Doxa which are now demonstrably false.
Surely integrity is more valuable than a quick buck?

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## Chronomatic (Jan 12, 2013)

So to be clear, this isn’t a limited edition correct? I think this was a great move and exactly what I had highlighted in my post to doxa. Although they would have annoyed less people if the release was only for the modern colors. That said I think this is a good move for them. 


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

adg31 said:


> For me it's the inconsistency:
> *This is a once in a lifetime 50th anniversary special edition...
> It will only ever be available in the three initial colours in line with our history...*
> These are two statements that I have had from Doxa which are now demonstrably false.
> ...


Change of management, the company direction has changed dramatically.



micky67 said:


> the crystal on the re issue has a moderate curvature which ends up distorting a lot of the outer circumference of the dial, the original 60's model had a sharper curvature and so had almost no distortion effect on the dial. makes the dial look a lot larger. i will take pics for example when i get c hange


No, the curvature is more of less the same, but the original was acrylic and therefore perfectly transparent. Sapphire, even good sapphire like the one used by Doxa, has a slight grey/bluish tint.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Chronomatic said:


> So to be clear, this isn't a limited edition correct? I think this was a great move and exactly what I had highlighted in my post to doxa. Although they would have annoyed less people if the release was only for the modern colors. That said I think this is a good move for them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Quick buck 1
Integrity 0 
This is never a good result in my book

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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

cuthbert said:


> Change of management, the company direction has changed dramatically.
> 
> No, the curvature is more of less the same, but the original was acrylic and therefore perfectly transparent. Sapphire, even good sapphire like the one used by Doxa, has a slight grey/bluish tint.


I appreciate that Rick has left the business but there has, so far as I am aware, been no change in ultimate ownership. As such, I find the willingness to discard previous statements rather hard to swallow.

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## GmtMasterIII (Aug 5, 2018)

These may not be limited, but the professional on bor bracelet sold out awfully quickly.


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## pkrshang (Aug 28, 2017)

In my opinion this is absolutely great news, the limited edition stuff from the Marei management was rubbish. We all know that some "limited" models were underproduced and some were overproduced. It was always a marketing gimmick. Plus the 2016/2017 run were steadily increasing in value on the used market so this will likely dramatically correct the doxa bubble from the last few months. I welcome the new Jenny overlords.


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

So I just bought my 300T 20-ish days ago and have been smitten since then. Love it.

I admit I loved the idea of a vintage release but always understood it to be behind us. The 50th for example. 

I admit I know understand the animosity towards the Doxa group, they can't stand by their word! Whats old can't be left alone as old. I do like the carbon and the 200, I admit, but can we see more new and interesting? Can't keep rehashing yesterdays work. 

I think I'll keep my 300T, I like that it's got a great WR and HEV. It's as close as I'll get to a Roelx Sea Dweller, and thats fun for me. Do anything tool watch if you will.


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## Speedamatuer (Jul 21, 2016)

Sailboat caseback from the T&T article:


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

pkrshang said:


> In my opinion this is absolutely great news, the limited edition stuff from the Marei management was rubbish. We all know that some "limited" models were underproduced and some were overproduced. It was always a marketing gimmick. Plus the 2016/2017 run were steadily increasing in value on the used market so this will likely dramatically correct the doxa bubble from the last few months. I welcome the new Jenny overlords.


I'm not saying that things were perfect in the 'Marei era' but please don't forget that without Rick et al there would most likely have been no resurrection of the classic Doxa SUB.
Just my thought!

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## bricem13 (Apr 6, 2010)

pkrshang said:


> In my opinion this is absolutely great news, the limited edition stuff from the Marei management was rubbish. We all know that some "limited" models were underproduced and some were overproduced. It was always a marketing gimmick. Plus the 2016/2017 run were steadily increasing in value on the used market so this will likely dramatically correct the doxa bubble from the last few months. I welcome the new Jenny overlords.


Me too!! Now vintagecan be bought and available from Switzerland... Previous releases were, to my knowledge, only to buy from US what i thought dumb for a Swiss brand and a swiss customer.

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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

I can definitely see how those that picked up a limited run watch back in 2016/17 would feel a bit miffed, I certainly would.

But to be fair to Doxa, this is exactly what people have been asking for, and when it comes to it, they are a business that needs to sell stuff to make money. Cant blame them for giving (most of) their customers what they want.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Speedamatuer said:


> Sailboat caseback from the T&T article:
> View attachment 15393689


The same article also shows the old stamped clasp. Disappointing

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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

This is pure and simple a cash grab and a highly disappointing one at that. The fact that they are re-releasing a non 300 50th edition for a significant markup, and conveniently leave out the fact that it's almost identical to it is pure garbage. They want to compare it only to their current 300T to justify the ridiculous nature hoping that people won't notice how crap of a move it is to do what they are.

For those that are wondering, even those 'limited' runs of models lasted for years upon years. You could get a 1200 up until like a year ago, and those were released back in the early 10s.

I'm also tired of this ridiculous faceless management refusing to acknowledge that without Rick and us diehard fans from the last 20 years, they wouldn't be able to even be here to pull of these ridiculous shenanigans.

For those of you that criticized Doc for his bitterness, maybe you should rethink what he had to say and realize that he's been right, and the new direction that DOXA is taking is trash, and completely devaluing their brand. I will forever stick with the Marei era watches. Those watches came from love and admiration that was the brand, not what the current frankenstein it is. They will run DOXA to the ground just to squeeze a few extra bucks out of those that don't know what the last 20 years of Doxa's history is.


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

I feel disappointed tbh , I have a 50th searambler and the new one looks pretty much identical apart from the square colour on the seconds hand , limited edition on it is now a joke thanks Jenny, 
I also have a black lung I’m wondering now how long will it be before this gets released again


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

jcombs1 said:


> Time and Tide review. I'm more confused now. Is it a non LE redux of the 50th or a slimmed down version of the recent 300T?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This article pisses me off even more... the damn quote about meteoric rise since 2018? Are they kidding me? If this article wasn't bought and paid for by DOXA I don't know what is. The conveniently left out the resurrection of the brand in 2000, the 50th edition that was released in 2017, a year prior to this supposed true resurrection. Screw DOXA and their bs tactics to try to erase their own history.


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Yes I can understand why the flying doctor gets a little frustrated now, tbh I’ve slimmed my collection of doxa down to three now , the 3 watches I have I like and have no intention of selling but it’s highly unlikely I will buy another


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Monkeynuts said:


> I also have a black lung I'm wondering now how long will it be before this gets released again


They are dusting down the printing plates as we speak: Yellow Lung and Blue Lung editions to complete this unique set also arriving soon 

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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

Don't agree with 300T owners being irked about this release-it's an entirely different watch. I'm a new 300T owner and recognize that. The SUB 300 is a different animal in terms of wear and appearance (it looks like they have maintained the original proportions). What is more annoying for early DOXA 2.0 300T owners is the later addition of the HEV which to me smells of production not being ready in time for new company launch and they needed to get revenue pieces out the door. So now I can't go saturation diving. 

I _partially_ agree with SUB 300 50th Anniversary owners being irked about this release-I'm a 50th Searambler owner as well. That said, the 50th Anniversary is more true to the original with the dial typeface, the original crown, imperial bezel, possibly the original caseback (why doesn't New DOXA show the backs on their site?). And for the owners and fans knowing what it represents/represented under the Marei era. I'm torn in predicting how this impacts resale value of those 50th Anniversary pieces-hold firm because of that Marei romance and closer to the original, or decline because of newfound availability. Time will tell, but I didn't buy this watch (or any of my watches) as an investment with any expectation of appreciation.

PS. What will really wind up 50th owners will be when we see new Aqualung pieces under their new agreement.

Forgetting about what came before DOXA 2.0 this launch makes perfect sense as it introduces the original, landmark design to complement the follow up (and, forgetting about shark-jumping on price, is a very cool vintage/modern counterpoint with the SUB 300 Carbon). Plus it's kind of trippy to see the Divingstar and Aquamarine in this format. Price is a bit dear, though (conceding it is COSC certified relative to the 300T, still shouldn't command a 30% premium). And mystifying that the bracelet and rubber are only USD$50 apart.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

micky67 said:


> I can definitely see how those that picked up a limited run watch back in 2016/17 would feel a bit miffed, I certainly would.
> 
> But to be fair to Doxa, this is exactly what people have been asking for, and when it comes to it, they are a business that needs to sell stuff to make money. Cant blame them for giving (most of) their customers what they want.


The entire point of "limited editions" is that they are supposed to remain limited. I remember almost ten years ago we had a similar case with the last special edition of the Poljot 3133 chrono, it went out of production, a Spanish forum proposed to use these calibres to make a limited reissues of the first 3133 chronograph, the Ocean, 250 pieces...I was one of those who got it.

Few months later we found the Russian company who made these watches released another batch of 250 pieces exactly identical to the previous ones, that sparked outrage and since then that company has a pretty bad reputation on WUS. I hope Doxa finishes like them.


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

CityMorgue said:


> If this article wasn't bought and paid for by DOXA I don't know what is.


Remember that T&T is an authorized reseller for DOXA. So more a commentary on biased reporting.


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

adg31 said:


> Very nice but I seem to recall Doxa categorically stating that the 50th anniversary editions would be limited to 300
> ... then came the add-on Black Lung limited editions
> ... now we have this new unlimited edition of the SUB300.
> This leaves me wondering if trust is the real limited edition here?
> ...


Haven't read the thread, but, on these non-LE versions, the text is not the vintage style (almost like handwriting)

These have been modern, clear type.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

mitchjrj said:


> That said, the 50th Anniversary is more true to the original with the dial typeface, the original crown, imperial bezel, possibly the original caseback (why doesn't New DOXA show the backs on their site?).


It is the same! Everything is the same besides the crown and the bezel, the Doxa logo appears to be bolder but not so much...no sorry price is NOT the same, it´s 500 euros more.

Let´s face it: Doxa is now a rogue brand.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

ebtromba said:


> Haven't read the thread, but, on these non-LE versions, the text is not the vintage style (almost like handwriting)
> 
> These have been modern, clear type.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I thought the handwriting style was only used for the Diving Star - which was never issued in the 300 offering and which Doxa previously said never would be.
Words eh; what do they matter 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

cuthbert said:


> Yes, to be honest I am slightly annoyed, I ordered the Sub300 Anniversary back in 2016, I gave the deposit on May and received the watch on December...the understanding back then was it should have been a very special limited edition to celebrate the birth of the Doxa submariner.
> 
> In the end the watch was highly successful, they made 300 pros, 300 sharkhunters, 300 searambler, but additional 800 Aqualungs, all sold out. However it appears the new management is quite greeedy and they want to milk the design a little more. BTW it´s also COSC certified like the original, but the price increased of about 500 euros.


In my opinion, the anniversary Sub 300 is the most wearable diver out there. And it is full of vintage charm. I love mine...all 3 of them. (professional aqualung, searambler, sharkhunter)

I used to think it was a crying shame that these were LE... the design is perfect! I'm so glad these are apparently going to be available to everyone. You get a brand new watch with a modern movement, with nearly the same dimensions as the one that started it all over 50 years ago.

The Doxa Sub 300 is the Speedmaster professional of dive watches. Much like one can buy a brand new watch that is nearly the same as the watch Neil and Buzz wore in 1969, one can now buy a brand new doxa, the design design of which is nearly the same as it was when scuba was just taking off in the 60s.

Like I said, I own 3 anniversaries, and I am thrilled at this news. I am thrilled many many people can experience this perfect design. I am going to have to really fight the urge to snag a Caribbean...

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

adg31 said:


> I thought the handwriting style was only used for the Diving Star - which was never issued in the 300 offering and which Doxa previously said never would be.
> Words eh; what do they matter
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, the handwriting is on all the 50th anniversary editions.

It is not on these new watches.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

ebtromba said:


> No, the handwriting is on all the 50th anniversary editions.
> 
> It is not on these new watches.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I can't see it on mine; where should I be looking?









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Where does the 300T sit in Doxa history? Should it or should it not have an HEV if it’s a reissue of the original?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Pegasus said:


> Where does the 300T sit in Doxa history? Should it or should it not have an HEV if it's a reissue of the original?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I may be wrong (not unknown) but I thought the 300 was the original followed by the 300T.
The original 300T was bigger than the 300 but didn't have a HRV until the Conquistador - although Dr Pete did come across a 300T with an HRV - so I guess that for historical accuracy it should be sans HRV.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

ebtromba said:


> No, the handwriting is on all the 50th anniversary editions.
> 
> It is not on these new watches.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Show me please! I also can't see it on my watch!









And yes, the 300T came out in 1968, one year after the 300 that had a very short life. There are few 300T Conquistador with helium valve but they were very scarce and bought just by saturation divers.


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## Landscape (May 4, 2019)

ebtromba said:


> ... I own 3 anniversaries, and I am thrilled at this news. I am thrilled many many people can experience this perfect design...


Finally, some sense amid all this DOXA gatekeeping! I for one have not been able to get my hands on a Sub 300 Pro - and I have been trying to buy one for a while now but they sell within hours of being posted on the second hand market. Those with LE Subs still have a numbered case back, imperial bezel, modified typeface, blank crown, and in some cases the Aqualung logo; I am positive the LEs will still retain their value, as those looking for those details will pay for them.

I got in on the Sub 300 Professional before it sold out today I cannot wait to _finally_ own this watch.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Landscape said:


> Finally, some sense amid all this DOXA gatekeeping! I for one have not been able to get my hands on a Sub 300 Pro - and I have been trying to buy one for a while now but they sell within hours of being posted on the second hand market. Those with LE Subs still have a numbered case back, imperial bezel, modified typeface, blank crown, and in some cases the Aqualung logo; I am positive the LEs will still retain their value, as those looking for those details will pay for them.
> 
> I got in on the Sub 300 Professional before it sold out today I cannot wait to _finally_ own this watch.


I hope that you enjoy your watch.
Whilst you may see me as a gatekeeper as I already own a 50th anniversary Professional the issue for me is more about respect for the brand history and consistency of approach.
If someone says that they will, or will not, do something I like to think that they will be good to their word. When that trust is lost it's hard to recapture.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ds760476 (Nov 7, 2011)

Still no Army...can't be bothered.


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## MZhammer (Feb 27, 2009)

Sorry, but I can't look at these two images and feel like it isn't shady to release one labeled as a "limited Edition" and then release the other 3 years later not address that it is virtually an identical watch other than some slight text changes.


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

adg31 said:


> I may be wrong (not unknown) but I thought the 300 was the original followed by the 300T.
> The original 300T was bigger than the 300 but didn't have a HRV until the Conquistador - although Dr Pete did come across a 300T with an HRV - so I guess that for historical accuracy it should be sans HRV.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right.

Depends on where ya read I suppose. This article states a Conquistador did have an HEV.









Doxa Sub - first dive watch with Helium Escape Valve - Monochrome Watches


The Doxa Sub dive watch is famous for it’s orange dial and rotating bezel to compute no-decompression times. Not many people know that Doxa was the first to have a publicly available dive watch with a Helium Release Valve. In the 1950’s and 1960’s the Rolex Submariner and Blancpain Fifty Fathoms...




monochrome-watches.com


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

ross2187 said:


> Right.
> 
> Depends on where ya read I suppose. This article states a Conquistador did have an HEV.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you mean as I said that the Conquistador had the HRV as per the Dr Peter Millar 50 Years book?
What the Monochrome article omits is that a 300T has come to light with an HRV predating the Conquistador.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

adg31 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean as I said that the Conquistador had the HRV as per the Dr Peter Millar 50 Years book?
> What the Monochrome article omits is that a 300T has come to light with an HRV predating the Conquistador.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I admit I don't own the book, nor am I a scholar of Doxa in any capacity, so please forgive my ignorance.

But I have learned is that the 300T Conquistador came out in 1969, with an HEV, as this article and the site of my 300T states.

So 300 aside, when did the first 300T become available? And what is the difference in the 300T, and the 300T Conquistador? This may matter, as it seems Doxa wants the current 300T to pay tribute to the 1969 300T Conquistador WITH an HRV, not the one before it WITHOUT.

As I said, I'm not trying to upset, just trying to learn.


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

I hope


MZhammer said:


> Sorry, but I can't look at these two images and feel like it isn't shady to release one labeled as a "limited Edition" and then release the other 3 years later not address that it is virtually an identical watch other than some slight text changes.
> View attachment 15394081


Panerai has been doing it for years. Slightly different shade of blue, maybe vintage lume instead of green, different movement, etc. There's only so many ways that you can make the same design. Eventually you have to make your limited editions unlimited. Panerai has one style and Doxa has one style.


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## Stev0 (Oct 3, 2017)

The 50th Anniversary 300 (no-T) Searambler and Sharkhunter did not sell out of their limited run of 300. Doxa produces watches in batches - they were discontinued in the low 200 serials a couple of years back. If anyone on this forum has one with a serial number much over 200, I stand corrected. 

They now have the Sub 200, 1500, 300T and now 300 (no-t) in all 6 colours. That’s 24 versions of a watch that aesthetically, the uninitiated would have difficulty telling apart.

My point/question is; are they overestimating the market appeal of these watches? They appeal to a relatively small niche of watch geeks (a group in which I include myself) Many of which are now feeling alienated from the brand for various reasons (discussed at length on this forum). 

The new marketing push is attracting fresh-blood but I think most will find the prices too high for a ‘fun summer watch’. Personally, I don’t see this approach working out from a business perspective in the medium to long term unless they innovate with some new designs. 

Instead, they re-release models that only 3 years earlier were sold as limited editions.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

adg31 said:


> I can't see it on mine; where should I be looking?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All the text is different, but it's easiest to see what the poster means by looking at the "automatic" and "professional". It's thinner, and more "loopy" and similar to handwriting than the new 300 text. I get the confusion with the divingstar example but that's not what the other poster was referring to.

The text on the '17 300s is much closer to the vintage 300 than the '20 ones.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

ross2187 said:


> I admit I don't own the book, nor am I a scholar of Doxa in any capacity, so please forgive my ignorance.
> 
> But I have learned is that the 300T Conquistador came out in 1969, with an HEV, as this article and the site of my 300T states.
> 
> ...


From reading the history by Dr Millar I believe that the original SUB 300 came out in 1967 as the Professional, Searambler and Sharkhunter.
This was followed in 1968 by the SUB 300T which had a larger case and flat mineral glass. It also added the Diving Star into the range. However it appears that the vast majority of the 300T had no HRV although a few examples have come to light with an HRV.
The ultra rare Conquistador model featured an HRV but it seems that there are only around 7 still in existence.
The classic SUB 300T would therefore not have the HRV - or Caribbean and Aquamarine dial options - so the new 300T with an HRV would appear to be a bit of a mix.
However I'm guessing that the company want to clearly differentiate the current 300 and 300T offerings and are using the HRV to achieve this - but that appears to leave the 300T as now being a 1200T in all but name.
Confused - you will be 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> All the text is different, but it's easiest to see what the poster means by looking at the "automatic" and "professional". It's thinner, and more "loopy" and similar to handwriting than the new 300 text. I get the confusion with the divingstar example but that's not what the other poster was referring to.
> 
> The text on the '17 300s is much closer to the vintage 300 than the '20 ones.


On the comparison photograph posted previously in this thread I can't think many people would honestly say 'wow, those are two totally different watches!'
Would you?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

adg31 said:


> On the comparison photograph posted previously in this thread I can't think many people would honestly say 'wow, those are two totally different watches!'
> Would you?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They're very similar. I do think they're different enough (dial text, crown, bezel) that some people, mainly enthusiasts, will prefer the '17 model though.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

adg31 said:


> On the comparison photograph posted previously in this thread I can't think many people would honestly say 'wow, those are two totally different watches!'
> Would you?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 That's the big issue I'm having with what doxa is pulling.
They are even now deleting my comments on their facebook page that points this out. They are actively trying to suppress the fact that a previously promised limited edition is being released and devaluing their brand. It's nice to see people are opening their eyes to this and I hope it bites them in the ass. It's shameful what they are doing. It won't be long before we see non-limited black lungs getting re-released and act like the other versions never existed....


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Awesom-O 4000 said:


> I hope
> 
> Panerai has been doing it for years. Slightly different shade of blue, maybe vintage lume instead of green, different movement, etc. There's only so many ways that you can make the same design. Eventually you have to make your limited editions unlimited. Panerai has one style and Doxa has one style.


I agree with this in theory, really what else are they going to do, produce a submariner homage? The sub 200 was a step outside of their comfort zone but I'm not sure it was a hit, at least with the traditional customers. It seems like a nice watch but it wasn't met with universal praise either.

I'm fairly new to Doxa and there are some things about the brand that I struggle with like vfm, perceived quality, etc., but case shape, design and overall aesthetic are not among them.

I get the distaste for basically reissuing an LE but do we really expect them to forever shelve one of the most popular/successful watches ever released?

I guess the launch of this new version could have been handled better, although I'm not sure how, but selling watches is Doxa's reason for existing and they're going to sell a pile of these. I will give them credit for understanding the marketplace, at the very least.


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

adg31 said:


> I can't see it on mine; where should I be looking?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK so I'm an idiot. Handwriting was a, pretty poor choice of words. Anniversary editions text is thinner, and subjectively look 'old', these new watches text is bolder and subjectively look newer. To me.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

Landscape said:


> Finally, some sense amid all this DOXA gatekeeping! I for one have not been able to get my hands on a Sub 300 Pro - and I have been trying to buy one for a while now but they sell within hours of being posted on the second hand market. Those with LE Subs still have a numbered case back, imperial bezel, modified typeface, blank crown, and in some cases the Aqualung logo; I am positive the LEs will still retain their value, as those looking for those details will pay for them.
> 
> I got in on the Sub 300 Professional before it sold out today I cannot wait to _finally_ own this watch.


Ahem brother, I am sure you'll love it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

MZhammer said:


> Sorry, but I can't look at these two images and feel like it isn't shady to release one labeled as a "limited Edition" and then release the other 3 years later not address that it is virtually an identical watch other than some slight text changes.
> View attachment 15394281


Meh. I guess I don't really care. It's a great design that never should have been limited in the first place. They are righting that wrong as far as I am concerned. It was a crime to limit this greatness to less than 2000 examples.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

Awesom-O 4000 said:


> I hope
> 
> Panerai has been doing it for years. Slightly different shade of blue, maybe vintage lume instead of green, different movement, etc. There's only so many ways that you can make the same design. Eventually you have to make your limited editions unlimited. Panerai has one style and Doxa has one style.


Yeah, but like, Panerai sucks.

.



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## JMHNash (Aug 3, 2016)

ross2187 said:


> If its a re-release of the 50th and Professional is available, my new current model 300T will be going right back. Price depending of course.
> 
> I get now why everyone is fed up with the games that Doxa plays.


I just received my new Sub 300T. Wish I'd known the new version was coming my way.


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## labratpip (Nov 24, 2019)

I just bought a 300t two weeks ago as well. I'm still extremely happy with my purchase. I was looking for a solid every day watch and I think I would've still gone with the 300t had I known about the 300 being released. I can't justify that price increase for COSC certification, lack of ratcheting extension, and a domed crystal with a slightly thinner profile. Even though it's essentially the same as the limited release, at the end of the day....it's not limited and I feel the price point is too high. Still looks excellent, and I'm sure it's very comfortable on the wrist given how the 300t feels. 

I can go either way with this one. On one end, I do feel like it sucks for the people that got the limited releases only to have an identical watch be added to the normal rotation. I would not be happy if that happened to me. On the other hand, it really is an excellent design that absolutely should be the flagship in the Doxa line. However, there is one big catch to this entire situation. If Doxa continues to do limited releases, they are going to have to step their game up significantly after something like this.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

They should have called it the ‘3rd Anniversary 300’.

It is the best thing new Doxa has made and more people should be able to have this size but this is sketchy.


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## MZhammer (Feb 27, 2009)

ebtromba said:


> Meh. I guess I don't really care. It's a great design that never should have been limited in the first place. They are righting that wrong as far as I am concerned. It was a crime to limit this greatness to less than 2000 examples.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


When a brand makes a commitment to their customer base, that matters to me and I expect them to honor it. I have no time to deal with companies that mislead their customers.

Should it have been a normal production run originally? Yea, definitely. But they didnt, and they should stand by that commitment to the customers who bought it. I'm all for adding other colors, but the 3 from the LEs should have been left out or dramatically changed. Part of the appeal of an LE, for many of us, is the inherent scarcity in it; if that wasn't the case, brands wouldn't be doing LEs all the time. There IS value in it for the owners and to turn around and disregard that promise to the customers is just ****. Makes one question any promise the brand makes, be it warranty, provenance, etc.

As someone who has owned 2 anniversaries and 1 black lung, it definitely is going to stop me from buying any new Doxas.


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

adg31 said:


> From reading the history by Dr Millar I believe that the original SUB 300 came out in 1967 as the Professional, Searambler and Sharkhunter.
> This was followed in 1968 by the SUB 300T which had a larger case and flat mineral glass. It also added the Diving Star into the range. However it appears that the vast majority of the 300T had no HRV although a few examples have come to light with an HRV.
> The ultra rare Conquistador model featured an HRV but it seems that there are only around 7 still in existence.
> The classic SUB 300T would therefore not have the HRV - or Caribbean and Aquamarine dial options - so the new 300T with an HRV would appear to be a bit of a mix.
> ...


There are definitely more than 7 out there now. To add to the confusion, check out where _*Conquistador*_ is written on this dial and the cursive style font. I'm still in awe at having gotten to fondle this one almost 2 yrs ago in Del Mar!



















Couldn't help but put one of my old Sharkhunters next to it's older sibling.


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

ross2187 said:


> I admit I don't own the book, nor am I a scholar of Doxa in any capacity, so please forgive my ignorance.
> 
> But I have learned is that the 300T Conquistador came out in 1969, with an HEV, as this article and the site of my 300T states.
> 
> ...


I've noticed many of the newer articles have provided bits of misinformation, or some lack of consistency. That will make getting the story straight a bit frustrating.

If you have not visited the Doc's website, I highly recommend it. The info here is legit, and this is where he stored his research and reviews before he printed his 1st book. Glad it's still up.

DOXA SUB 300T


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## thejames1 (May 19, 2014)

MZhammer said:


> When a brand makes a commitment to their customer base, that matters to me and I expect them to honor it. I have no time to deal with companies that mislead their customers.
> 
> Should it have been a normal production run originally? Yea, definitely. But they didnt, and they should stand by that commitment to the customers who bought it. ]


I agree with this 100%.

Would I have bought a standard edition four years ago - probably, but this bait and switch is a no go for me to consider future models.

Contemplating offloading my 50th anniversary Professional because of this disappointment.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## bricem13 (Apr 6, 2010)

If i am not mistaking, price of new one isin line with the old one, wasn't it ~2400 before discount and ~1900 after?

To me, as new to the brand, i enjoy their new releases and they are correcting mistakes of the past. 200 is nice, 300t well made and the new 300 revives an iconic design that should never have been limited! 
I can understand originial 50th anniversary owners are not happy but after chasing one for a couple of months and being hurt by the stupid selling prices, i will now be happy to buy the new 300.

Additionally i have to say i never saw such amount of emotion, this thread could deserve the brand. Please recall that former characters of the community made money with the brand and other brand re-released limited edition under regular models too.

Envoyé de mon Mi A2 Lite en utilisant Tapatalk


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

JMHNash said:


> I just received my new Sub 300T. Wish I'd known the new version was coming my way.


Yes I was thinking about getting a 300T, now not anymore because perhaps as soon as they run out of 1200 cases they might offer an "improved" model. Or a "limited edition" aqualung.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

MZhammer said:


> Sorry, but I can't look at these two images and feel like it isn't shady to release one labeled as a "limited Edition" and then release the other 3 years later not address that it is virtually an identical watch other than some slight text changes.
> View attachment 15394281


I'm sorry - but I disagree - with the Limited Edition you've got the Bezel in Feet (the Limited Edition also looks more red than orange on the bezel (but that could just be the photo), the Non-Limited you've got Meters; the type face between the 2 is also different.

The Limited Edition is an COSC ETA whereas the Non-Limited is likely to be Sellita given the supply difficulties with ETA).

So the new one isn't just a facsimile of the LE but subtlety different.

It amazes me that people were previously content to accept an LE as being the same as a Non-LE but with a logo on its dial - but are now (apparently) up in arms about this.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> I'm sorry - but I disagree - with the Limited Edition you've got the Bezel in Feet (the Limited Edition also looks more red than orange on the bezel (but that could just be the photo), the Non-Limited you've got Meters; the type face between the 2 is also different.
> 
> The Limited Edition is an COSC ETA whereas the Non-Limited is likely to be Sellita given the supply difficulties with ETA).
> 
> ...


Looking at the description it seems that it's running a 25 Jewel calibre which would make it the ETA 2824 rather than the 26 Jewel Sellita SW200.
So taken with the sailboat case back design the differences now appear to be limited to the slightly different font used on the dial, the crown logo and the bezel being in metres - now that's what I call subtle!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Looking at the description it seems that it's running a 25 Jewel calibre which would make it the ETA 2824 rather than the 26 Jewel Sellita SW200.
> So taken with the sailboat case back design the differences now appear to be limited to the slightly different font used on the dial, the crown logo and the bezel being in metres - now that's what I call subtle!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well that's a bit unclear as its stated as having 38 hours reserve - the same as a SW200; whereas the ETA 2824 has 42 hours.

Regardless - it has different bezel and a different font - so why is this 'unacceptable', whereas previously it was OK just to stick a logo on the dial?


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

KAS118 said:


> I'm sorry - but I disagree - with the Limited Edition you've got the Bezel in Feet (the Limited Edition also looks more red than orange on the bezel (but that could just be the photo), the Non-Limited you've got Meters; the type face between the 2 is also different.
> 
> The Limited Edition is an COSC ETA whereas the Non-Limited is likely to be Sellita given the supply difficulties with ETA).
> 
> ...


You are wrong about the movement, the new SUB 300 has a COSC-certified ETA 2824-2.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

MaBr said:


> You are wrong about the movement, the new SUB 300 has a COSC-certified ETA 2824-2.
> 
> View attachment 15395023
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info - be interesting to find out how they got them - and where the 4 hours reserve has gone to?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Well that's a bit unclear as its stated as having 38 hours reserve - the same as a SW200; whereas the ETA 2824 has 42 hours.
> 
> Regardless - it has different bezel and a different font - so why is this 'unacceptable', whereas previously it was OK just to stick a logo on the dial?


What would the phrase 'limited edition of 300 pieces' mean to you?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

*Different lug shape?*

I was potentially interested in the new rubber strap for my LE Searambler until I saw the price.
The shape of the lug on the LE model looks different to the 2020 model too, so I wonder if they're even compatible?


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> What would the phrase 'limited edition of 300 pieces' mean to you?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To me it means they are making 300 of that exact model and no more. They're often marked with serial numbers depicting that.

It doesn't mean that they not making anymore of a similar model.

What does it mean to you?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> To me it means they are making 300 of that exact model and no more. They're often marked with serial numbers depicting that.
> 
> It doesn't mean that they not making anymore of a similar model.
> 
> What does it mean to you?


That something is limited to a run of 300 items - no more.
I would certainly not expect to see it enter normal unlimited production in a near identical format that only the most observant could distinguish.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

MZhammer said:


> Sorry, but I can't look at these two images and feel like it isn't shady to release one labeled as a "limited Edition" and then release the other 3 years later not address that it is virtually an identical watch other than some slight text changes.
> View attachment 15394281


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> That something is limited to a run of 300 items - no more.
> I would certainly not expect to see it enter normal unlimited production in a near identical format that only the most observant could distinguish.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh - so how much difference does it have to be to make it 'different' enough to be OK for them to produce it?

As I said, at the very leat the Bezel is different, the Font is different - I believe the crown is different and I also underhand the non-Professional LE modules had orange numbest on the bezel whereas now they are colour matched to the dial.

IMHO its a significant difference in having Feet indicated on the Bezel - compared to Meters.

As I said - previously they could ave stuck a logo on a dial - on a watch they were already producing - called that a Limited Edition and everyone would have been happy.

Now they done something with more amendments then that - and people are protesting its a rip off.
.


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

CityMorgue said:


> That's the big issue I'm having with what doxa is pulling.
> They are even now deleting my comments on their facebook page that points this out. They are actively trying to suppress the fact that a previously promised limited edition is being released and devaluing their brand. It's nice to see people are opening their eyes to this and I hope it bites them in the ass. It's shameful what they are doing. It won't be long before we see non-limited black lungs getting re-released and act like the other versions never existed....


only thing you can do is boycott the brand. awful path they've chosen


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

KAS118 said:


> Oh - so how much difference does it have to be to make it 'different' enough to be OK for them to produce it?
> 
> As I said, at the very leat the Bezel is different, the Font is different - I believe the crown is different and I also underhand the non-Professional LE modules had orange numbest on the bezel whereas now they are colour matched to the dial.
> 
> ...


can't believe you're arguing the innuendo of the models and finding no wrong doings.

it's plain as day what doxa did. that doesn't change the fact even if you get your dream watch.

there's no debate that you will ever win concerning this matter.


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## njhinde (Mar 25, 2017)

I certainly understand why some owners of previous LE's are not happy with these new models, and I can appreciate that they feel this may devalue their watches - not only in financial terms, but also from the point that they were previously lucky enough to pick up something special at that point in time. Now everyone can, more or less, get a very similar version.

On the other hand, I also think this new range looks pretty good (it is more appealing to me than the 300T), and making it accessible to more people is a positive thing in that respect. History aside, of course.

Personally, I have been thinking about getting a Doxa for a few years. I nearly bought a 1200T on a couple of occasions, but something held me back. Partly because of the pain and extra cost trying to get one in Europe. But what I really wanted was the Black Lung, or 50th version. And here is the point, I still don't own a Doxa to this day, because those versions were simply unattainable for me.

Now the new model comes out, and I "could" actually buy one and have it driven up the Autobahn from Switzerland to Germany, rather than bizarrely shipping it from the US. Unfortunately, I am just not comfortable with it at nearly 2.5k€ (I know, COSC etc. - this is a personal feeling), so will remain Doxa-less for the foreseeable future as well.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> can't believe you're arguing the innuendo of the models and finding no wrong doings.
> 
> it's plain as day what doxa did. that doesn't change the fact even if you get your dream watch.
> 
> there's no debate that you will ever win concerning this matter.


Well thanks for your opinion - but I can't believe that someone is trying to argue that a watch that is different - has no differences to a model they comparing it too.

As for the rather obtuse conclusion you've reached - lets examine the facts:

1) Is the Font Different - Yes

2) Is the Bezel Different - Yes

3) Is the Crown Different - Yes

Now, if you want to argue these aren't different - then that's up to you........?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

njhinde said:


> I certainly understand why some owners of previous LE's are not happy with these new models, and I can appreciate that they feel this may devalue their watches - not only in financial terms, but also from the point that they were previously lucky enough to pick up something special at that point in time. Now everyone can, more or less, get a very similar version.
> 
> On the other hand, I also think this new range looks pretty good (it is more appealing to me than the 300T), and making it accessible to more people is a positive thing in that respect. History aside, of course.
> 
> ...


The Doxa watches I've bought previously shipped from Vienna rather than the US. I'm not sure - or even care - where they will ship from now.
Interestingly, even though shipping from within the EU there was still UK duty to pay at 20%.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## njhinde (Mar 25, 2017)

adg31 said:


> The Doxa watches I've bought previously shipped from Vienna rather than the US. I'm not sure - or even care - where they will ship from now.
> Interestingly, even though shipping from within the EU there was still UK duty to pay at 20%.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ah, ok, thanks - I didn't realise they were also shipped rom Austria. I was told by Doxa support back in 2018 that shipping + fees would be added to my order, so incorrectly assumed the US. The listed price presumably didn't include tax, hence the mark-up when reaching Germany.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> The Doxa watches I've bought previously shipped from Vienna rather than the US. I'm not sure - or even care - where they will ship from now.
> Interestingly, even though shipping from within the EU there was still UK duty to pay at 20%.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well you may not be - but I think a lot of people are.

Mine was a pain - had to be paid for in Dollars and incurred Custom and 'courier' handling fees. It certainly wasn't shipped from a EU Country.

The issue being that Doxa appeared to be USA egocentric.

However, now the new management has gone for a worldwide push. There are actually a number of authorised dealers in the UK. So I can order new Doxa and don't have to worry about Custom Fees, delays at Customs, having to pay additional Courier handling fees - I just pay the price agreed and can get it delivered next day.

Hats off to the new management for that.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

njhinde said:


> Ah, ok, thanks - I didn't realise they were also shipped rom Austria. I was told by Doxa support back in 2018 that shipping + fees would be added to my order, so incorrectly assumed the US. The listed price presumably didn't include tax, hence the mark-up when reaching Germany.


You might find there are Authorised Dealers in Germany now - and you can buy from there.

Over the past year a number of Authorised Dealers have appeared in the UK - and I believe there is a global push by the new management to promote the brand.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Well thanks for your opinion - but I can't believe that someone is trying to argue that a watch that is different - has no differences to a model they comparing it too.
> 
> As for the rather obtuse conclusion you've reached - lets examine the facts:
> 
> ...


So sticking with the facts how many points of similarly rather than difference can we see?
Is the case shape different - No
Is the bezel shape different - No
Is the case back different - No
Is the bracelet different - No
Are the main dial colours different - No
Is the basic dial design different - No
Is the brand positioning different - No
Is the product name different - No
Is the calibre different - No
Is it a limited edition - No
Do I like the DivingStar - Yes
Will I buy one based on the above - No
The reality is that I am not going to agree with you - nor you with me; it's not being obtuse it's just you choose to see things differently.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> So sticking with the facts how many points of similarly rather than difference can we see?
> Is the case shape different - No
> Is the bezel shape different - No
> Is the case back different - No
> ...


Yes, and all those thing you've mentioned are the same where they've brought out a LE model by just sticking a logo on the dial.

However, continuing with the analogy:

1) Was the LE Case shape previously used on other non-LE models - Yes

2) Was the LE Dial Colour previously used on other non-LE models - Yes

3) Was the bracelet previously used on non-LE models - Yes

4) Was the basis dial design previously used on non-LE models - Yes

5) Was the Brand positioning previously used on non-LE models - Yes

6) Was the calibre preciously used - Yes

7) Is the shape of the Bezel the same as that used on previous non-LE models - Yes

So you brought a watch that's design features were the same or similar to previously non-LE models - now they're using design from those non-LE models - and I don't see why they don't have a right to. The LE Model you have is different to the New Sub 300.

The basis of your argument would be that Doxa should never use the Cushion Case and Orange Quatered Dial, or a Bezel with Deco Markings - and no, I don't agree with that proposition at all.

As there seems to be some confusion - my reference to 'obtuse' was to pionEerOFtHeNiLe's comment - not yours


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

njhinde said:


> Now the new model comes out, and I "could" actually buy one and have it driven up the Autobahn from Switzerland to Germany, *rather than bizarrely shipping it from the US. * Unfortunately, I am just not comfortable with it at nearly 2.5k€ (I know, COSC etc. - this is a personal feeling), so will remain Doxa-less for the foreseeable future as well.


I don´t know from where this crazy rumour came out but on December 2016 they shipped my Doxa Sub300 50th anniversary from Austria, not from the US. ALL the European customers received the watch from Doxa´s Austrian office.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

njhinde said:


> Ah, ok, thanks - I didn't realise they were also shipped rom Austria. I was told by Doxa support back in 2018 that shipping + fees would be added to my order, so incorrectly assumed the US. The listed price presumably didn't include tax, hence the mark-up when reaching Germany.


I never figured out how I needed to pay UK import tax for an item dispatched within the EU - or why Doxa paid the tax for US customers 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> I don´t know from where this crazy rumour came out but on December 2016 they shipped my Doxa Sub300 50th anniversary from Austria, not from the US. ALL the European customers received the watch from Doxa´s Austrian office.


Because when I ordered mine in 2014 it certainly didn't come from a European County - so it factually incorrect to say that all European customers received their watches from Austria - because I didn't.

I do accept, however, that that may recently have been the case - but as I said above, if I now ordered one it would b e shipped from an Authorised Dealer in the UK.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> The basis of your argument would be that Doxa should never use the Cushion Case and Orange Quatered Dial, or a Bezel with Deco Markings - and no, I don't agree with that proposition at all.


Your position in untenable: everybody can see the difference between a Sub300 and a 300T, the case is different, the dial is different, the hands are different, the bezel diameter is different, even the bracelet is different!



KAS118 said:


> Because when I ordered mine in 2014 it certainly didn't come from a European County - so it factually incorrect to say that all European customers received their watches from Austria - because I didn't.


Again, your post is intellectually dishonest: the user was talking about the Sub300 50th anniversary, ALL the European customers got their watch from Austria.

Did you order a Sub300 Anniversayry back in 2014?


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> Your position in untenable: everybody can see the difference between a Sub300 and a 300T, the case is different, the dial is different, the hands are different, the bezel diameter is different, even the bracelet is different!


Errrhhhh...never said they weren't.

So for you to say that was my position is just erroneous and misconceived - never mind ?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Yes, and all those thing you've mentioned are the same where they've brought out a LE model by just sticking a logo on the dial.
> 
> However, continuing with the analogy:
> 
> ...


No, the basis of my argument is that if something is described as a Limited Edition that is what it should be. We can split hairs about fonts on the dial all day long but I suspect most people would say it's basically the same watch.
Similarly if someone speaking on behalf of an organisation says that a particular model will never be produced so as to preserve the historical integrity of the brand I would expect them to honour it.
Once you lose the trust of a customer it's a hard commodity to regain.
Then again I suppose that brand enthusiasts didn't really contribute much to the success of the SUB comeback so don't really matter now.
Wherever it ships from enjoy your shiny new Doxa in good health

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalku


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> No, the basis of my argument is that if something is described as a Limited Edition that is what it should be. We can split hairs about fonts on the dial all day long but I suspect most people would say it's basically the same watch.
> Similarly if someone speaking on behalf of an organisation says that a particular model will never be produced so as to preserve the historical integrity of the brand I would expect them to honour it.
> Once you lose the trust of a customer it's a hard commodity to regain.
> Then again I suppose that brand enthusiasts didn't really contribute much to the success of the SUB comeback so don't really matter now.
> ...


Errhhhh - you introduced the argument that the case shape is the same, the bezel shape is the same and their dial colour is the same.

Logically therefore you are saying that Doxa should not have used these for any other watch.

Your watch is an LE, it is different for the numerous reasons I have already pointed out to you - and hence the LE is different.

So IMHO Doxa have done nothing wrong.

I keep on making the point - and you keep avoiding it - but previously a LE version merely had an additional Logo put on it - but people weren't up in arms when Doxa continued to to produce the Non-logo version.

If you weren't accept there are differences - then thats up to you.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Well you may not be - but I think a lot of people are.
> 
> Mine was a pain - had to be paid for in Dollars and incurred Custom and 'courier' handling fees. It certainly wasn't shipped from a EU Country.
> 
> ...


Sorry you misunderstand; I know exactly where my Doxa shipped from in 2016 and 2017 as it was clearly stated on the manifest as Wien.
What I was trying not to do was speak for every Doxa watch ever shipped

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Sorry you misunderstand; I know exactly where my Doxa shipped from in 2016 and 2017 as it was clearly stated on the manifest as Wien.
> What I was trying not to do was speak for every Doxa watch ever shipped
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


HI - again I think there is some confusion - I was replying to cuthbert's post when I said not every watch was shipped from Austria ?

I fully accept that some may have been.


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## Fantasio (Apr 5, 2009)

Did Doxa really specifically state with 2017 limited editions that they will never again make any versions of SUB 300? If they did, it's in my opinion quite a strange promise from a company to "trash" their probably most iconic model for good.

I wonder how many companies would actually value "historical integrity" more than increase in sales? Small limited editions in the past don't make much long term revenue to keep Doxa afloat, maybe that's why they were forced to change management.

Somehow this conversation reminds me of backpackers complaining how tourists ruin their favorite travel destinations. Oh the horror of commercialism...



adg31 said:


> Similarly if someone speaking on behalf of an organisation says that a particular model will never be produced so as to preserve the historical integrity of the brand I would expect them to honour it.


Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> Your position in untenable: everybody can see the difference between a Sub300 and a 300T, the case is different, the dial is different, the hands are different, the bezel diameter is different, even the bracelet is different!
> 
> Again, your post is intellectually dishonest: the user was talking about the Sub300 50th anniversary, ALL the European customers got their watch from Austria.
> 
> Did you order a Sub300 Anniversayry back in 2014?


As previously explained to you Cuthbert I never said there's wasn't any difference between the Sub300 and a Sub300t - I'm actually saying there's a lot of difference - so I'm afraid your accusation of 'intellectual dishonesty' seems to be you self-projecting.

As for where they came from - the 'user' - or poster - who first raised that was actually talking about the Sub1200T.

So, again - I think its a shame you show your (frankly) plain rudeness (as you did on the Yema post) by calling someone 'intellectual dishonest' - when it appears that really does relate to you.

As this was all previously explained to you - but you chose to repeat the comment - what again demonstrates your lack of manners.

Now kindly reflect upon that - and learn to engage with people in a polite way - even if you disagree with them. ?


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Jeez Dudes, it is just a feckin' watch...

I am looking for a 300 50th Pro LE but if I cannot find one in a reasonable time, I will just buy a 2020 300 Pro


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

jorgenl said:


> Jeez Dudes, it is just a feckin' watch...
> 
> I am looking for a 300 50th Pro LE but if I cannot find one in a reasonable time, I will just buy a 2020 300 Pro


Yeah the level of butthurt in here has reached critical mass. This is a Chernobyl-level butthurt event.


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## ChrisWMT (Dec 4, 2018)

ebtromba said:


> Yeah the level of butthurt in here has reached critical mass. This is a Chernobyl-level butthurt event.


It's everywhere on this forum. Stay away from the new Seiko 62MAS or anything 6R35 related threads lol.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

ChrisWMT said:


> It's everywhere on this forum. Stay away from the new Seiko 62MAS or anything 6R35 related threads lol.


If you don´t like you are free to post somewhere else.

And for your information Seiko had the good taste not to re-release the SLA017 but to change it enough (different dial color, ceramic bezel, movement, steel grade) and sell it as SLA037. Regarding the "cheap" 62MAS it was released at the same time and it´s clearly completely different from the high range models.


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## ChrisWMT (Dec 4, 2018)

cuthbert said:


> If you don´t like you are free to post somewhere else.
> 
> And for your information Seiko had the good taste not to re-release the SLA017 but to change it enough (different dial color, ceramic bezel, movement, steel grade) and sell it as SLA037. Regarding the "cheap" 62MAS it was released at the same time and it´s clearly completely different from the high range models.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

As someone who almost picked up a searambler before they sold out and then looked at the used market for either a searamber or silver lung, I'm happy to see them made available again, but I do see why some are irked by the new releases. However, if I were looking for a searambler or professional I'd still prefer the LE's as I do like the original dial text and the non-colored in crown. That said, if I were in the market for a sharkhunter, I much prefer the orange minute hand - and the caribbean, divingstar and aquamarine are new watches so I see no issue with those.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Doxa will do what they like, at this point if I ordered a 300 I would open it up to check whether there was an ETA in it.

I don’t trust much they say at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

ebtromba said:


> Yeah the level of butthurt in here has reached critical mass. This is a Chernobyl-level butthurt event.


It's Hodinkee Travel Clock level butthurt


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## thejames1 (May 19, 2014)

Here is an example is how to do a limited edition and a standard edition. Limited SLA033 and the standard SPB151. 
This would have required the new Doxa management to have actually done any design effort in their part.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
View attachment 15395606
View attachment 15395607


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

jorgenl said:


> Jeez Dudes, it is just a feckin' watch...
> 
> I am looking for a 300 50th Pro LE but if I cannot find one in a reasonable time, I will just buy a 2020 300 Pro


I've not seen what they go for at the moment but have a full set which I may be looking to sell based on this 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

thejames1 said:


> Here is an example is how to do a limited edition and a standard edition. Limited SLA033 and the standard SPB151.
> This would have required the new Doxa management to have actually done any design effort in their part.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
> ...


The Sla033 is a fantastic watch I paid pretty much the same as a new doxa 300, a great deal in my book


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

adg31 said:


> I've not seen what they go for at the moment but have a full set which I may be looking to sell based on this
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It won't be tough to find a buyer, I've been looking for one too. They're hard to come by and think they will hold value, I don't feel this recent release will change that.


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## MZhammer (Feb 27, 2009)

Monkeynuts said:


> The Sla033 is a fantastic watch I paid pretty much the same as a new doxa 300, a great deal in my book


Yea, I'm actually sad to have seen them drop so much in price, considering how terrific they are! I have the SLA033 and the 50th Anniversary Doxa and was trying to decide which one I should keep!


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## Sparty416 (Jul 1, 2020)

jorgenl said:


> Jeez Dudes, it is just a feckin' watch...
> 
> I am looking for a 300 50th Pro LE but if I cannot find one in a reasonable time, I will just buy a 2020 300 Pro


Same thing for me. I've come close in snagging a 50th Professional the last few months but this might be the better option at this point.


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

MZhammer said:


> Yea, I'm actually sad to have seen them drop so much in price, considering how terrific they are! I have the SLA033 and the 50th Anniversary Doxa and was trying to decide which one I should keep!
> 
> View attachment 15395900


Give it ten years and the price will be very high I'm thinking, looking great on the chocolate bar I also have mine on that at the moment


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

adg31 said:


> I've not seen what they go for at the moment but have a full set which I may be looking to sell based on this
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think around the USD 2,300-2,500 for the Professional (based on quick watchrecon check)

Bummer that you are on the other side of the pond... ;-)


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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

MZhammer said:


> Yea, I'm actually sad to have seen them drop so much in price, considering how terrific they are! I have the SLA033 and the 50th Anniversary Doxa and was trying to decide which one I should keep!


That's a tough one.
If you already have the Sub 300 50th Professional...maybe I'd keep the Seiko.
Then again a Sharkhunter is quite versatile (like the Searambler).
It's definitely easier to find straps for the Doxa too, with its more-common 20mm lug width vs the 19mm quirkiness of the Seiko.


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## MZhammer (Feb 27, 2009)

Joe90 said:


> That's a tough one.
> If you already have the Sub 300 50th Professional...maybe I'd keep the Seiko.
> Then again a Sharkhunter is quite versatile (like the Searambler).
> It's definitely easier to find straps for the Doxa too, with its more-common 20mm lug width vs the 19mm quirkiness of the Seiko.


I actually sold the Pro. The orange was too much to wear casually, and its less readable at depth than the sharkhunter black. Got the Sharkhunter BL after that, and sold it because the grey lume surrounds bothered me so much so had to source a pre-owned 50th Sharkhunter. That one was just right.


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

KAS118 said:


> I'm sorry - but I disagree - with the Limited Edition you've got the Bezel in Feet (the Limited Edition also looks more red than orange on the bezel (but that could just be the photo), the Non-Limited you've got Meters; the type face between the 2 is also different.
> 
> The Limited Edition is an COSC ETA whereas the Non-Limited is likely to be Sellita given the supply difficulties with ETA).
> 
> ...


There are no more current supply issues regarding ETA movements. Swiss Courts did some recent ruling.

Business News: Swatch Group Gets Green Light In Mechanical Movements Case - HODINKEE


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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

MZhammer said:


> I actually sold the Pro. The orange was too much to wear casually, and its less readable at depth than the sharkhunter black. Got the Sharkhunter BL after that, and sold it because the grey lume surrounds bothered me so much so had to source a pre-owned 50th Sharkhunter. That one was just right.


So the Sharkie is your only Doxa? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

MZhammer said:


> Yea, I'm actually sad to have seen them drop so much in price, considering how terrific they are! I have the SLA033 and the 50th Anniversary Doxa and was trying to decide which one I should keep!
> 
> View attachment 15395900


I also have both and the answer is keep both. They are quite different. Doxa is perfect for summer, SLA033 for the colder months


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Formula1980 said:


> There are no more current supply issues regarding ETA movements. Swiss Courts did some recent ruling.
> 
> Business News: Swatch Group Gets Green Light In Mechanical Movements Case - HODINKEE


Yeah, but it will presumably take a while for them to get up to speed again - at the moment, if you go on the ETA Website, they are still saying their movements are unavailable.

NO doubt Doxa did have some stock - but its interesting they've actually stopped identifying the movement as an ETA on their website - which leads me to believe that Doxa were intending to consider alternatives if their supply had become exhausted.

However, yes - you are correct - ETA can now sell their movements to whoever they like 👍


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Forgive me if It has already been discussed, but what bracelet clasp comes on the new Sub 300? Is the bracelet the same as the one that was sold with the 50th anniversary and Aqua Lung branded watches?


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## userchrist (Jan 16, 2020)

ean10775 said:


> Forgive me if It has already been discussed, but what bracelet clasp comes on the new Sub 300? Is the bracelet the same as the one that was sold with the 50th anniversary and Aqua Lung branded watches?


Yes it is.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

Well, it also appears that their quality control has completely gone out the window. I have seen multiple posts about the lume on the minute hand being way off from its normal placement. This is not only on the new 300s, but also the carbons as well. The advertisement pictures clearly show there is some discrepancy, and if any of you are owners of this, you might want to check your watch and bring it up to DOXA. This is obviously not a little mistake.

This IMO is beyond unacceptable for a watch that costs 2500 and 5000 respectively.


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## FinishingDutch (Jul 9, 2020)

You're referring to the shorter lume strip on the minute hand compared to a 300T? 

I think that's by design because the older models had shorter lume strips there. Looking at the pics on the site, all the different hands seem to have the same lume strip length and placement for the 300.

Unless you're referring to a different thing? I'm not really seeing any specific threads that mentioned minute hand lume issues...


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

^I'm also not sure it's a QC thing than a change in execution. The minutes' lume is a bit further down/centered on the minute hand than displayed on the site. I don't have a problem with it personally, but will get pics up once mine arrives Tuesday


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## roberev (Mar 15, 2006)

This is what CityMorgue is talking about. The minute hand lume on the official pictures and introduction video is placed differently than on the actual production model. This picture is of my watch, received today, with a promo video screengrab in the background. Compare for yourselves. Definitely different, but not a deal breaker for me, personally.


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## FinishingDutch (Jul 9, 2020)

Yeah, that definitely looks off to me as well. On the 300T that I have, as well as on the 300T and new 300 shots on the website, the tip of the minute's lume portion would 'hit' the smaller hour marker lume. That looks quite a bit off from hitting the marker so to speak.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

FinishingDutch said:


> Yeah, that definitely looks off to me as well. On the 300T that I have, as well as on the 300T and new 300 shots on the website, the tip of the minute's lume portion would 'hit' the smaller hour marker lume. That looks quite a bit off from hitting the marker so to speak.


To be honest though I thought the 300t had much more lume on its minute hand in any event.

I agree that the minute hand lume placement isn't the same as on the video, but it seems to me the only reason people are complaint about it is because of the one in the video.

Had that been close to the centre as well I wonder how many people wouldn't have bought the watch?

However, having said that, I agree that it probably isn't as intended - and if it bothers someone so much they should contact Doxa about it. That will then be a way of testing what their Customer Service is really like.

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## roberev (Mar 15, 2006)

KAS118 said:


> However, having said that, I agree that it probably isn't as intended - and if it bothers someone so much they should contact Doxa about it. That will then be a way of testing what their Customer Service is really like.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I agree completely. I never would have noticed the difference had someone not pointed it out on the Doxa Watch Owners FB page.


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

Seems to be consistent across this model, including the Carbon LE fwiw. So far ALL of them I've seen are like this, so I wouldn't necessarily call it a QC issue, but rather somehow the machining was altered, for whatever reason. I'd be curious to see Doxa's official response, and how they're classifying it. When all is said and done, it doesn't bother me, and I do plan to take mine diving in the future.


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## roberev (Mar 15, 2006)

I am content with the lume placement on the minute hand:


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## muchacho_ (Feb 11, 2012)

The most likely thing that happened is this:
1. Chinese hand factory screwed up
2. Someone at Doxa didnt notice that... or they did notice that but the accountant said „we dont have time for fixing that, lets release it as it is, it doesnt look that bad. Our loyal customers probably are going to love it and call it a collectible anyway"


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## Formula1980 (Mar 23, 2011)

roberev said:


> This is what CityMorgue is talking about. The minute hand lume on the official pictures and introduction video is placed differently than on the actual production model. This picture is of my watch, received today, with a promo video screengrab in the background. Compare for yourselves. Definitely different, but not a deal breaker for me, personally.
> View attachment 15397775


Glad you pointed that out. It looks like the screen shot is using the Marei era hands. I checked my Blacklungs, and they're like the one on your screen. So now one more minor change has been made clear regarding these new non-limited 300s.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Formula1980 said:


> Glad you pointed that out. It looks like the screen shot is using the Marei era hands. I checked my Blacklungs, and they're like the one on your screen. So now one more minor change has been made clear regarding these new non-limited 300s.
> View attachment 15398386
> 
> 
> View attachment 15398387


From all the recent publicity issued you'd never know that there was a 'Marei' era or 50th anniversary limited edition - quite amazing what you can do with an airbrush 

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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

KAS118 said:


> To be honest though I thought the 300t had much more lume on its minute hand in any event.
> 
> I agree that the minute hand lume placement isn't the same as on the video, but it seems to me the only reason people are complaint about it is because of the one in the video.
> 
> ...


I can answer that for you, response will be as follows if you get that far:

We will pass it to our master watchmaker.

(A few weeks later)

It's within tolerance.

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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

Formula1980 said:


> Glad you pointed that out. It looks like the screen shot is using the Marei era hands. I checked my Blacklungs, and they're like the one on your screen. So now one more minor change has been made clear regarding these new non-limited 300s.


I'm sorry but this isn't about Marei era. The entire history of DOXA has never had minute hands like this. And you can't just sit here and say this is some change that was thought about, because DOXA is still advertising these with the normal hands. It's an obvious error. This isn't some little quirk that got through, this is multiple models, and someone is falling asleep at the wheel of QA.

And honestly, it's interesting so many people are willing to just write this off. Clearly DOXA doesn't care about rushing out watches that have errors, and if they are allowed to get away with this, you will continue to see the quality go down the tube.

If DOXA wants to start charging massive premiums for a watch of lower quality, you get what you pay for. What goes through on the next quality failure? Messed up paint on the dial? Faulty bezels? Faulty movements?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

CityMorgue said:


> I'm sorry but this isn't about Marei era. The entire history of DOXA has never had minute hands like this. And you can't just sit here and say this is some change that was thought about, because DOXA is still advertising these with the normal hands. It's an obvious error. This isn't some little quirk that got through, this is multiple models, and someone is falling asleep at the wheel of QA.
> 
> And honestly, it's interesting so many people are willing to just write this off. Clearly DOXA doesn't care about rushing out watches that have errors, and if they are allowed to get away with this, you will continue to see the quality go down the tube.
> 
> If DOXA wants to start charging massive premiums for a watch of lower quality, you get what you pay for. What goes through on the next quality failure? Messed up paint on the dial? Faulty bezels? Faulty movements?


I think that it's worth considering that in the UK you can get a Tudor Black Bay with Rolex quality finishing for not much more over the price of the new 'standard' SUB 300. 
If looking at the Forged Carbon option you're getting into Omega Seamaster territory with their phenomenal customer service.
If Doxa want to compete in this sector they need to be using these as their benchmark for their quality and customer service.
As much as I love my Doxa 50th anniversary SUB 300 professional it's really not in the same league. 
Indeed my Searambler ended up being flipped for a loss as the datewheel font clashed with the curvature of the crystal - and I'm still waiting for someone to get back to me from Doxa to discuss options over a year on!

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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> I think that it's worth considering that in the UK you can get a Tudor Black Bay with Rolex quality finishing for not much more over the price of the new 'standard' SUB 300.
> If looking at the Forged Carbon option you're getting into Omega Seamaster territory with their phenomenal customer service.
> If Doxa want to compete in this sector they need to be using these as their benchmark for their quality and customer service.
> As much as I love my Doxa 50th anniversary SUB 300 professional it's really not in the same league.
> ...


Out of curiosity what was the bad Doxa service experience that you received and when was that?

Could you also explain what you mean by the 'font clashing with the curvature of the crystal'?

Omega's in the UK are serviced by The Swatch Group (UK) Ltd - whilst I would certainly concur that sending a watch to them is a lot easier - I had to return my Tissot Navigator Heritage 160 to them on 3 occasions as, when I got it it was performing out of specification, and I got it back twice from them performing exactly the same as it was when I sent it to them. Fortunately it was the case of 3rd time lucky and they did do a good job on it that time.

However, as can be seem hear - even some people are disgruntled with Jaeger LeCoultre






I actually have my Sub1500T in for service at the moment - so it all be interesting to see how they do overall.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Out of curiosity what was the bad Doxa service experience that you received and when was that?
> 
> Could you also explain what you mean by the 'font clashing with the curvature of the crystal'?
> 
> ...


Okay - long question but I'll have a crack at answering it
My experience with Doxa CS has been very hit and miss over the years - it all seems to depend on who you get to talk to. 
Sometimes it has been excellent - others almost a parody of how not to do it enacted for a training video.
My point is that if you are going to compete at this price position you need to be consistently good - if not excellent.
The issue regarding the date clashing with the crystal can best be explained by the photo below:








It appears that Doxa had no control over what ETA calibres it received - or the datewheel fonts therein. As such if you had a right justified one, as on my Searambler, it sat right on the curve of the box crystal making it pretty much unreadable in practice. If you had a centrally justified one it was perfect - as on my Professional.
I contacted Doxa for help but got nowhere - so finally ended up selling the Searambler for a loss which was a shame as it's a great looking watch. 
In contrast all of my contacts with Omega CS in Southampton have been consistently friendly, helpful and very effective in resolving any questions first time around

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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

That is crazy how you had a date wheel like that and not a issue with my searambler so totally unacceptable, I totally agree that the price being pretty much the same as a tudor 58 is a money grab, the Tudor 58 is in a different class I have my 58 on now and it is miles better quality ,Tudor also know how to do a tapered bracelet. there is not a chance in hell doxa will admit any faults with the new line up


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Okay - long question but I'll have a crack at answering it
> My experience with Doxa CS has been very hit and miss over the years - it all seems to depend on who you get to talk to.
> Sometimes it has been excellent - others almost a parody of how not to do it enacted for a training video.
> My point is that if you are going to compete at this price position you need to be consistently good - if not excellent.
> ...


Thanks for your explanation - but just to clarify - the period where you've received unsatisfactory service would have been under the previous leadership?

It seems to me people are keen to slag off the new leadership - as though the previous one was exemplary.

My own current feelings are that whilst there is room for improvement - it is actually improving.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Thanks for your explanation - but just to clarify - the period where you've received unsatisfactory service would have been under the previous leadership?
> 
> It seems to me people are keen to slag off the new leadership - as though the previous one was exemplary.
> 
> My own current feelings are that whilst there is room for improvement - it is actually improving.


I've never said that the previous team were perfect - but they represented Doxa as an entity. They also did a lot of good as I don't believe that the Doxa SUB brand would be around today without their passion for it and I think it small to seek to airbrush them out.
In terms of the current leadership team I've not heard anything back so I can't say that I'm overly impressed to date!

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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Monkeynuts said:


> That is crazy how you had a date wheel like that and not a issue with my searambler so totally unacceptable, I totally agree that the price being pretty much the same as a tudor 58 is a money grab, the Tudor 58 is in a different class I have my 58 on now and it is miles better quality ,Tudor also know how to do a tapered bracelet. there is not a chance in hell doxa will admit any faults with the new line up
> View attachment 15398695


I'm glad that your Searambler has the right datewheel as it's a great looking watch - possibly a bit more versatile than the Professional as a daily driver.
The current issue with the minute hand lume positioning just seemed like a rehash of the QC problem I (and others) experienced with the datewheel.
As such, it seems like the change of leadership hasn't changed much - other losing the previous teams obvious passion for the brand 

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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

adg31 said:


> I'm glad that your Searambler has the right datewheel as it's a great looking watch - possibly a bit more versatile than the Professional as a daily driver.
> The current issue with the minute hand lume positioning just seemed like a rehash of the QC problem I (and others) experienced with the datewheel.
> As such, it seems like the change of leadership hasn't changed much - other losing the previous teams obvious passion for the brand
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They will correct it as an 'upgrade' in about 6 months 

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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> I'm glad that your Searambler has the right datewheel as it's a great looking watch - possibly a bit more versatile than the Professional as a daily driver.
> The current issue with the minute hand lume positioning just seemed like a rehash of the QC problem I (and others) experienced with the datewheel.
> As such, it seems like the change of leadership hasn't changed much - other losing the previous teams obvious passion for the brand
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure why you think the current leadership is 'losing the passion' for the brand?

The Jenny family are the ones who put up their money to bring the brand back - and they now want to make the brand better known internationally and have appointed people experienced in doing that.

We're already seeing that I the UK a number of Authorised Dealers have been appointed - and the whole purchasing procedure is greatly simplified.

They've also brought out a vastly more affordable watch - based upon one of their pre-Sub historic designs - and the Sub300 has generally been well received - in America the Professional on Bracelet selling out within the first day.

All that requires investment - so it seems to me the Jenny family are just as passionate about the brand as they've always been - if not more so.

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## Stev0 (Oct 3, 2017)

Monkeynuts said:


> That is crazy how you had a date wheel like that and not a issue with my searambler so totally unacceptable, I totally agree that the price being pretty much the same as a tudor 58 is a money grab, the Tudor 58 is in a different class I have my 58 on now and it is miles better quality ,Tudor also know how to do a tapered bracelet. there is not a chance in hell doxa will admit any faults with the new line up
> View attachment 15398695


I prefer the more retro font and the orange second hand square (and correctly positioned lume!) of the 2017 Searambler LEs. I think these will always be more desirable.

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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Not sure why you think the current leadership is 'losing the passion' for the brand?
> 
> The Jenny family are the ones who put up their money to bring the brand back - and they now want to make the brand better known internationally and have appointed people experienced in doing that.
> 
> ...


So was the resurrection of the Doxa SUB brand down to an in-house initiative based on this passion or down to a third party enthusiast?
If it was down to the corporate passion for a core brand why is it only now after around 20-years moving to a more conventional AD distribution model having pioneered the online model?
I genuinely don't know the answers here but would welcome yours - or anyone's - views; especially if they are able to speak on behalf of Doxa.

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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> So was the resurrection of the Doxa SUB brand down to an in-house initiative based on this passion or down to a third party enthusiast?
> If it was down to the corporate passion for a core brand why is it only now after around 20-years moving to a more conventional AD distribution model having pioneered the online model?
> I genuinely don't know the answers here but would welcome yours - or anyone's - views; especially if they are able to speak on behalf of Doxa.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you go to the Doxa website you will see there is a section on their history.

Doxa were a highly regarded watch manufacture way before any Sub version.

Like many Swiss brands they succumbed to the Quartz crisis.

In 1997 the Jenny family acquired them.

In America and perhaps Europe they concentrated on the Sub. But in Asia you will find there are many different models what are not offered in the USA or Europe.

However, strangely I'm not sure the Sub is so available in Asia.

However, as you would have known yourself, purchasing a Doxa Sub pre-last year was not particularly easy - for example they had zero presence in the UK.

As I said the Jenny family want to expand their availability, so in 2019 Romeo F Jenny was appointed President and have brought in people from the Walca Group who are also owned by Jenny.

Clearly, some members of 'the old guard' don't like that - and I'm not saying who's right or wrong.

But I do know that prior to their purchase of Doxa the Jenny family has 40 years prior experience in the watch industry.

However, you haven't answered the question. You said that the new had less passion than the old. You have done nothing to explain the basis of that statement at al.

As I pointed out to you, they are trying to expand Doxa's recognition on a world wide basis.

Whilst I don't know the details of the management upheaval - I think the point you made about the last 20 years is a good one - I.e. that for the last 20 years Doxa have been well known in the USA, but unless you're a watch enthusiast- were relatively unknown in places such as the UK.

So that suggests to me that perhaps the old guard weren't taking a Global view on things- at least not to the extent desired by the owners who actually invested in the company.

As previously stated, the new management have increased their Authorised Dealers, and introduced a more affordable watch that more people could consider.

In my opinion, all this is positive - not negative.

But you have yet to explain why you consider the new management do not have a passion for the brand?

Surely, to make the brand more recognisable - is evidence that you want the brand to succeed- and hence there is a passion for it?

Here's an article what was written when they launched the Carbon 300. Jan Edöcs seems pretty enthusiastic to me









Jacques Cousteau's Doxa dive watch is back – in limited edition carbon


Doxa is an under-the-radar brand with incredible history, as the Doxa Sub 300 Carbon Aqua Lung US Divers makes clear…




www.gq-magazine.co.uk





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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> If you go to the Doxa website you will see there is a section on their history.
> 
> Doxa were a highly regarded watch manufacture way before any Sub version.
> 
> ...


Yes I had read the website but there is no mention of Rick Marei who I understood was instrumental in getting the SUB brand relaunched after the Jenny family acquired Doxa in 1997 - which would seem quite an omission to make.
I hope that most of - as you refer to them - the old guard are wrong and that there is a real passion for watchmaking within the new Doxa SUB team driving things forward; in truth only time will tell.
In my experience purchasing a Doxa online was fairly straightforward - certainly no worse than any other online purchase.
Fingers crossed for the future

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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> In my experience purchasing a Doxa online was fairly straightforward - certainly no worse than any other online purchase.
> Fingers crossed for the future
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's good you had a simple experience.

To explain why mine wasn't - although I was buying in the UK, I had to pay in US dollars.

I couldn't pay by credit card - but it had to be by Bank Transfer - which incurred a fee plus foreign transaction fees.

As it was coming from outside of the EU, it got stopped at customs. They send you a form - by post - which means there is a a delay. The courier also charges you a Customs Handling charge.

I seem to recall it took about 10 days to get to me.

However now, under the system the new management has set up - I go on line, pay by credit card and the watch is delivered to me the next day. There are no transaction fees, custom charges or handling fees I have to pay.

So that's why I consider the new system is vastly superior to the old.

But as you say, fingers crossed for the future 

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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

KAS118 said:


> It's good you had a simple experience.
> 
> To explain why mine wasn't - although I was buying in the UK, I had to pay in US dollars.
> 
> ...


That's weird.
I'm in the UK and I purchased 2x Doxas from the old/previous Doxa and had no problems at all.
I'm guessing you were unlucky?

For me, the customs handling and charge were factored-in to the price already and I paid using Amex (in USD).

I'm not saying I don't believe you btw...but I guess we need a decent sample size to determine whether things are improving or getting worse.

So far I haven't purchased anything from the new Doxa...


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Joe90 said:


> That's weird.
> I'm in the UK and I purchased 2x Doxas from the old/previous Doxa and had no problems at all.
> I'm guessing you were unlucky?
> 
> ...


Yeah, that is weird isn't it - because even when I returned my watch to them for a service I had to pay by bank transfer - although that was in Swiss Francs.

Also weird about custom charges and VAT etc - because where goods are being imported into an EU country from out of the EU they're usually payable at the point of entry. In the case of your watch that needs to go to the Government. Of course, some companies, such as Royal Mail pay them for you - and then send you a card and fee note to pay prior to delivery.

It wasn't just Doxa either, I ordered the Ianos Avyssos On Kickstarter. Although that's a Greek (EU) country the watches were being shipped from outside the EU and hence there was VAT etc to pay when it came into the UK.

So yeah, it seems weird to me you would have paid British VAT to a foreign non-EU company. But good for you they somehow managed to do things different for you.


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

Good news is that people will get to buy one that missed out.

Bad news is that the people that did buy the LE's lose quite a bit of value and exclusivity, and will likely never regain it again. Plus they will always bare the "slap in the face" from Doxa. The move feels like a Kobold thing.

Makes me think if Rolex ever started doing heritage models, what it would it do some vintage models like the 5513 and 1016


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Is there any difference between this 300 and the 50th other than a name? Tis a shame when this happens to limited editions - though good for the rest of us. Is the COSC worth £500 more ? Does that qualify as a chronometer - if it does then why not add that to the dial? Is it worth continuing with the 300T - when they could use the one case with or without COSC movement?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

8505davids said:


> Is there any difference between this 300 and the 50th other than a name? Tis a shame when this happens to limited editions - though good for the rest of us. Is the COSC worth £500 more ? Does that qualify as a chronometer - if it does then why not add that to the dial? Is it worth continuing with the 300T - when they could use the one case with or without COSC movement?


The bezel has the depth in Metres whereas on the 50th LE it is in Feet.
The dial fonts are slightly different.
The crown has DOXA on the 50th LE on the new one it has the orange Jenny fish.
The minute hand on the Sharkhunter is orange whereas it was white on the 50th.
The seconds lume box on the 50th was orange - now it's black.
The 50th was also only available as a Professional, Sharkhunter and Searambler.
The new one also seems - from some posts - to have a problem with the position of the lume.
Other than that I'm struggling!
The 300T has a much thicker case giving it a totally different aesthetic - but I honestly can't see why they didn't also give it a COSC movement.
Yes, COSC means that it is a chronometer but, like the 50th, is understated which I quite like

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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

adg31 said:


> The bezel has the depth in Metres whereas on the 50th LE it is in Feet.
> The dial fonts are slightly different.
> The crown has DOXA on the 50th LE on the new one it has the orange Jenny fish.
> The minute hand on the Sharkhunter is orange whereas it was white on the 50th.
> ...


The shape of the end piece where it attaches to the case/lugs seems different between the LE and the 2020 model too...

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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Joe90 said:


> The shape of the end piece where it attaches to the case/lugs seems different between the LE and the 2020 model too...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It certainly looks shorter on the stock images but it looks identical when it comes to the in the metal images.

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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

adg31 said:


> It certainly looks shorter on the stock images but it looks identical when it comes to the in the metal images.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmmm strange. Though for compatibility (with the new rubber strap, etc) that's nice to hear 

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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Conveniently not a mention of Rick Marei or the 20 years he put in resurrecting the brand. There is a whole chapter on what actually happened in the 50th book. 

I thought I had given up saying negative things about the new management but I'll make an exception as some people seem quite happy to forget about what really happened and rather believe Jan Edocs' claims that he re-energised the brand. I wouldn't say his track record is something to give Tim Cook any worries in the race for CEO of the year. 

The Jenny family and the new CEO don't and have never understood the Doxa brand and the passion that has evolved within the owners and fans. They are not even trying to tap into it. They are just looking at the whole thing as selling a commodity for a profit. Heck, everything these guys know about Doxa they read from my books and by the looks of things their reading age isn't above: Nip the dog and Fluff the cat. 

The hand issue on the 300 and plastic sub is not a QC problem, it is at a higher level. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge of the SUB would have looked at the hand samples and thrown them back. These guys probably didn't even look at them. If Edocs did see them and allowed them to progress then my point is proven. He knows sh1t about the history of the watch. If he didn't see them, then he's already falling asleep at the wheel. Actually even if he did see them he probably didn't care. As for the distaste over the 300 release last week. They could have released the 300 in just the missing colors. Then a year or 2 down the line released another limited edition with who knows, McDonalds on the dial. Didn't matter, it kept the 50th and USD 300 as true collectors items. Do these guys even sit down and work through scenarios and ramifications? I'm guessing not or if they do it is probably a "More tea Jan? Don't mind if I do Romeo". They just don't get it and are destroying 20 years of what every one of the Doxa family have built up. Trying to claim that the Jenny fish is the Doxa fish is just trying to rewrite history. It might as well be the Walca fish. 

Ah hell what's the point? I'm just waiting until these bozos ruin the brand and someone else takes it over. Someone who actually gives a ****.


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## pkrshang (Aug 28, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Ah hell what's the point? I'm just waiting until these bozos ruin the brand and someone else takes it over. Someone who actually gives a ****.


I think it's time to realize that there are eras of Doxa. The Marei one is over. Move on. If the current Jenny management is incompetent then the brand will fail and it will just go defunct like it did in between the Aubry and Jenny/Marei period. Move on and get over it already. Hostile takeovers happen all the time in business. ALL watch brands are businesses foremost. Either you can enjoy the watches for what they are or look elsewhere, there is no going back at this point.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Oh I actually have moved on, and I've moved on to something that blows Doxa and its history right out of the water. Its like the beginning of Doxa all over again, but better and given my association with Doxa over the last 18 years, I think I am in a position to make that call. I'm really now just a concerned Doxa owner who is expressing an opinion on the current state of the brand and the management and people trying to paint over the true history. What happened with Doxa is business. It may be somewhat distasteful as to what happened but its done and actually may have been a true blessing in disguise. I love my vintage and Marei era watches and will continue to do so. I've even stopped slagging off the plastic sub and the T-Graph because people, some of whom I know, have bought them (well the T-Graph anyway) and I don't feel right knocking something they forked out 5 grand of hard earned money for. The world is full of companies with plonkers running them who got to their positions through nepotism or knowing the right people. The fact that it happened with Doxa is sad but c'est la vie.


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## Chronomatic (Jan 12, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Oh I actually have moved on, and I've moved on to something that blows Doxa and its history right out of the water. Its like the beginning of Doxa all over again, but better and given my association with Doxa over the last 18 years, I think I am in a position to make that call. I'm really now just a concerned Doxa owner who is expressing an opinion on the current state of the brand and the management and people trying to paint over the true history. What happened with Doxa is business. It may be somewhat distasteful as to what happened but its done and actually may have been a true blessing in disguise. I love my vintage and Marei era watches and will continue to do so. I've even stopped slagging off the plastic sub and the T-Graph because people, some of whom I know, have bought them (well the T-Graph anyway) and I don't feel right knocking something they forked out 5 grand of hard earned money for. The world is full of companies with plonkers running them who got to their positions through nepotism or knowing the right people. The fact that it happened with Doxa is sad but c'est la vie.


Doc! What have you moved on to? Out of curiosity. I always valued your opinion so would be nice to know!

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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

Chronomatic said:


> Doc! What have you moved on to? Out of curiosity. I always valued your opinion so would be nice to know!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Aquadive I think, well I hope.


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## Chronomatic (Jan 12, 2013)

jcombs1 said:


> Aquadive I think, well I hope.


It's a great brand too. @Flyingdoctor ; let rick know we want a Gmt with 20mm lugs 

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## userchrist (Jan 16, 2020)

And a Deepstar 😃


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Conveniently not a mention of Rick Marei or the 20 years he put in resurrecting the brand. There is a whole chapter on what actually happened in the 50th book.
> 
> I thought I had given up saying negative things about the new management but I'll make an exception as some people seem quite happy to forget about what really happened and rather believe Jan Edocs' claims that he re-energised the brand. I wouldn't say his track record is something to give Tim Cook any worries in the race for CEO of the year.
> 
> ...


I'm sure Rick Marei may have been the catalyst for the re-introduction of the Sub. However, since then the facts are that Doxa has remained a very under-represented/niche brand - in Europe at least only known to watch enthusiasts or scuba divers (and then only those who have an interest in watches).

There have been complaints about servicing and quality going back to the period prior to Jan Edöcs - I believe the current set-up was only completed in August last year?

The stated intention of the new management is they want to raise the profile of the brand and make it more of a global player.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but they've brought out the modern looking Sub300t, the Sub200 and the vintage looking Sub300?

The Sub200 is considerably more affordable and perhaps will be a way of raising brand awareness and will make the first step of Doxa ownership easier.

They are rolling out appointing authorised dealers in various countries - this simplifies the buying and servicing experience for customers - as well as raising brand awarenes.

So what are you saying is wrong with this approach - and what do you say should have been done instead?

The facts are that we don't know if the 'Edöcs' era will or will not be a success - time will tell. But the Jenny family certainly do know watches - and I believe Jan Edöcs started working at Omega when he was 18.

So, IMHO just dismissing them as 'not being watch people' is perhaps as wrong as a failure to recognise Rick Marei's contribution in getting the Sub traction.

As for the Jenny Fish, well Jenny own the brand. I don't see what's so wrong with them discretely putting their mark on it? However, I am not aware of them claiming this has anything to do with Doxa historically (but it has been used under Rick Marei). The article here talks about a 'new' logo https://www.fhs.swiss/eng/2019_09_05_03_Doxa_1889.html


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> I'm sure Rick Marei may have been the catalyst for the re-introduction of the Sub. However, since then the facts are that Doxa has remained a very under-represented/niche brand - in Europe at least only known to watch enthusiasts or scuba divers (and then only those who have an interest in watches).
> 
> There have been complaints about servicing and quality going back to the period prior to Jan Edöcs - believe the current set-up was only completed in August last year?
> 
> ...


Something I'd not thought of until I read your post was why they launched the new 300T without a HRV - which many hailed as a good move - but then within a few months added one?
So far as I am aware the 'classic' 300T didn't have an HRV in which case it's certainly not for historical accuracy.
It certainly can't have been to create more clearly defined product ranges - or they wouldn't have changed it's specification so soon.
Initially I thought it may be to differentiate it from the 1200T - but the HRV takes it back to essentially being a 1200T; so I can't see why they didn't simply name it as such?
Any offers - anyone?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

I like doxa and have had dozens over the years , I was willing to give the new management a chance but not liked any of the choices they have done , the t graph was nice but over priced, the 200 looks generic, the 300t is ok but pretty much a 1200t, the carbon looks nice but having had a carbon watch it basically feels like having a plastic watch cool at say £1500 but definitely not at £5000, the rehash of the limited edition 50th at the same sort of price as a tudor 58 is laughable,
And to top it off the community feel of doxa is gone, long term doxa members are leaving or posting less me myself included , doxa is now Jenny’s cash cow b***h


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

The T-Graph was a Rick Marei project according to this time to move on and make room for something new

The Sub200 is based on the Doxa 11804 - so whether or not its 'generic' it is historic - as well as being more affordable.

As Forged Carbon is not steel, it clearly is not going to 'feel' like steel - but Forged Carbon. As Forged Carbon is significantly more expensive it is unclear why someone would think that Sub300 Carbon should costs £1,500 when the Steel version of the same watch is £2,390?

A Tudor BB58 on bracelet is £2,790 - which is 16-17% more than there Sub300 steel. The fact that both the Professional versions (bracelet and rubber) have already sold out on the American web-site suggests that not everyone thinks its a joke.


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

KAS118 said:


> The T-Graph was a Rick Marei project according to this time to move on and make room for something new
> 
> The Sub200 is based on the Doxa 11804 - so whether or not its 'generic' it is historic - as well as being more affordable.
> 
> ...


You sound like a salesman


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Monkeynuts said:


> You sound like a salesman


🤣🤣🤣


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> The T-Graph was a Rick Marei project according to this time to move on and make room for something new
> 
> The Sub200 is based on the Doxa 11804 - so whether or not its 'generic' it is historic - as well as being more affordable.
> 
> ...


It's fine saying that they have sold out but how many did they have on stock at launch?
If you had 10,000 in stock for launch a sell out is significantly more impressive than if you only had 10 available.
Creating an instant sell out is one of the oldest tricks in the marketing play book. It creates an illusion of success and helps to stimulate demand by making people think they may have missed out!
Alternatively, it could simply be poor pre-launch forecasting!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> It's fine saying that they have sold out but how many did they have on stock at launch?
> If you had 10,000 in stock for launch a sell out is significantly more impressive than if you only had 10 available.
> Creating an instant sell out is one of the oldest tricks in the marketing play book. It creates an illusion of success and helps to stimulate demand by making people think they may have missed out!
> Alternatively, it could simply be poor pre-launch forecasting!
> ...


So - on the one hand you're saying that they manufactured a 'sell out' - but on the other you're saying the fact they sold out is poor forecasting. When you've got some evidence to support your hypothesis it'll be great to see it.

I don't know how many they produced - but however many it was it seems that those people preferred to buy them rather than a BB58.

There are a number of people on this forum - and other social media groups - who are either posting photos of the watches they've received already - or that they've ordered one.

So the fact that we do know are that they are selling - were a colleague of mine got himself (about 2 months ago) a Tudor BB36 for £500 off list (doesn't sound like Tudor or any good at forecasting either does it?)


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> So - on the one hand you're saying that they manufactured a 'sell out' - but on the other you're saying the fact they sold out is poor forecasting. When you've got some evidence to support your hypothesis it'll be great to see it.
> 
> I don't know how many they produced - but however many it was it seems that those people preferred to buy them rather than a BB58.
> 
> ...


No, my point is simply that creating an artificial 'sell-out' is a great way to create the illusion of high demand - and hence success. Do this and people are more likely to want one - and be happy to pay full the RRP to get one.
I didn't say that Tudor did the same with the BB58 Blue nor did I say that this is the case here - I'm just putting forward a possible scenario 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> No, my point is simply that creating an artificial 'sell-out' is a great way to create the illusion of high demand - and hence success. Do this and people are more likely to want one - and be happy to pay full the RRP to get one.
> I didn't say that Tudor did the same with the BB58 Blue nor did I say that this is the case here - I'm just putting forward a possible scenario
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes - and my point being that you've got no evidence of them artificially creating a 'sell-out' - but we do know they (the Sub300's) are actually selling. ?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Yes - and my point being that you've got no evidence of them artificially creating a 'sell-out' - but we do know they (the Sub300's) are actually selling.


Since you appear to have all the answers from Doxa perhaps you could advise how many they have sold - or how many were produced?
Whilst we're at it, it would also be good to know why the first 300T models came out historically accurate with no HRV - but then they switched over to include an HRV with no change in brand identity?

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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Since you appear to have all the answers from Doxa perhaps you could advise how many they have sold - or how many were produced?
> Whilst we're at it, it would also be good to know why the first 300T models came out historically accurate with no HRV - but then they switched over to include an HRV with no change in brand identity?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I said in my post prior to the last one that I didn't know how many we're sold or for that matter produced - and neither do you.

However, the difference between us is that I'm relying on facts - i.e. that they are being sold.

You, on the other hand, appear hell bent in trying to invent disparaging hypothesis - which you can't evidence at all - why is that?

As for the 300T - there was a review in here when the person made the point that he Sub300T Conquistador was the 1st Dive watch with an HRV and it was ironic they produced one of the same name (number) without that feature.

However, I suggest if you want to know - you write to them - as well as actually ascertain how many watches they've sold - before making disparaging remarks about them,


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> I said in my post prior to the last one that I didn't know how many we're sold or for that matter produced - and neither do you.
> 
> However, the difference between us is that I'm relying on facts - i.e. that they are being sold.
> 
> ...


No, you are - like most of us here - relying on your own hypothesis to extrapolate and inform your opinion. 
If they are sold out online, how much of the new 300 stock was allocated to their international AD network - are they all sold out as well?
If they produced 10 then a sell out is no big deal! The reality is that we have no numbers so your guess is as good as mine 
I think you may have been referring to my post saying that the very rare 300T Conquistador was thought the first to feature the HRV - until a few 300T with HRV turned up. That was based on research from Dr Peter Millar of this parish in his Doxa SUB 50 book. Given that he possibly knows more about Doxa than anyone else I'd be happy to take his word.
As such I don't believe the classic 300T has an HRV - so why add it to a model so recently launched without an HRV?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> No, you are - like most of us here - relying on your own hypothesis to extrapolate and inform your opinion.
> If they are sold out online, how much of the new 300 stock was allocated to their international AD network - are they all sold out as well?
> If they produced 10 then a sell out is no big deal! The reality is that we have no numbers so your guess is as good as mine
> I think you may have been referring to my post saying that the very rare 300T Conquistador was thought the first to feature the HRV - until a few 300T with HRV turned up. That was based on research from Dr Peter Millar of this parish in his Doxa SUB 50 book. Given that he possibly knows more about Doxa than anyone else I'd be happy to take his word.
> ...


There we are again - making things up.

I said:

The Sub300 is being sold - it is - Fact.

The Professional on bracelet was shown, on the American Website as being sold out day 1 - it was and still is - Fact.

Both the Professional on bracelet and rubber strap are currently shown on the American website - Fact.

The Tudor BB36 was bought by a colleague of mine for £500 off list - it was - Fact.

You Said/Suggested

Doxa are artificially creating a 'sold-out' situation - Hypothesis for which you have no evidence.

Doxa's pre-launch forecast was poor - Hypothesis. Just because an estimate was wrong doesn't mean that it is poor - because it depends on the information that was available at the time of the estimate - such as the number of previous models sold in previous launches - the estimated effects of the pandemic etc.

So there is a VAST difference between who is relying on Fact's and who is putting forward a hypothesis.

Other Matters - no I was not relying upon your comment on the HRV on the Sunb300T but a review by johnnmiller1.

However, was exactly is your point(!?) - the Sub300T isn't supposed to be a heritage re-edition? If Doxa get feedback that people like an automatic HRV in their watches - or for any other reason - then why shouldn't they put one in?

Omega make the Seamaster - it called a Seamster - but its nothing like the original Seamaster.

Likewise - Lotus produced an Elan in the 1989-1996. It was nothing like the Lotus Elan from the 1960-70's and had front-wheel drive.

Manufactures frequently re-use names - and the current Sub300T certainly is not a re-issue of the original Sub300T.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Wow, so many differing opinions.

There is clearly a divide between old school Doxa fans and a new breed. 

Just to be clear, do any of the posters on here work for Doxa? Do they have a presence? Some of the posts sound like they do.

With regard the addition of the HRV to the 300T I asked Boris Ankli in sales (EU), it was an ‘upgrade’ along with the clasp. I couldn’t ascertain what that exactly meant.

On Instagram the question was asked and the response was to allow for saturation diving but they are both rated at 1200M so that doesn’t make sense to me.

My thoughts are that the watch was pushed out quickly and non-HRV cases were used to do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

?


KAS118 said:


> There we are again - making things up.


What exactly?

To answer your points briefly; you said:

The Sub300 is being sold - it is - Fact.

Fact: I simply asked you how many but you keep ducking the question and throwing up clouds of obfuscation.

The Professional on bracelet was shown, on the American Website as being sold out day 1 - it was and still is - Fact.

Fact: I simply asked you how many were produced, how many allocated to AD's and if they were also sold out. Again, you ducked the question.

Both the Professional on bracelet and rubber strap are currently shown on the American website - Fact.

Fact: I don't recall saying that they weren't?

The Tudor BB36 was bought by a colleague of mine for £500 off list - it was - Fact.

Fact: I never mentioned the BB36; try getting £500 off the BB58 Blue that I did mention

Doxa are artificially creating a 'sold-out' situation - Hypothesis for which you have no evidence.

Fact: I said it was one of the oldest tricks in the marketing play book. I specially didn't say that this is what Doxa had done. If you don't know the facts your opinion remains just that!

Doxa's pre-launch forecast was poor - Hypothesis. Just because an estimate was wrong doesn't mean that it is poor - because it depends on the information that was available at the time of the estimate - such as the number of previous models sold in previous launches - the estimated effects of the pandemic etc.

Fact: If it was accurate you simply wouldn't run out of stock! What is the point of making a big issue about a global AD network, as you have done, if there is no stock to purchase?

So there is a VAST difference between who is relying on Fact's and who is putting forward a hypothesis.

Fact: You are not relying on facts unless Doxa has chosen to share their information with you. You are therefore floating your own theories which have the same validity as anyone else's.

Other Matters - no I was not relying upon your comment on the HRV on the Sunb300T but a review by johnnmiller1.

However, was exactly is your point(!?) - the Sub300T isn't supposed to be a heritage re-edition?

Really, so why not give it an entirely new brand identity to create clear blue water and avoid confusion? Again, this is your hypothesis, most of the reviews at launch stressed the historical linkage.

If Doxa get feedback that people like an automatic HRV in their watches - or for any other reason - then why shouldn't they put one in?

Omega make the Seamaster - it called a Seamster - but its nothing like the original Seamaster.

True, but they didn't introduce it without the HRV then add it in less than a year later without changing the brand hierarchy to clarify.

Likewise - Lotus produced an Elan in the 1989-1996. It was nothing like the Lotus Elan from the 1960-70's and had front-wheel drive.

As above.

Manufactures frequently re-use names - and the current Sub300T certainly is not a re-issue of the original Sub300T.

As above.

Fact: You have your view; I have mine. Neither of us work for Doxa or have access to their systems so all of our comments are pure speculation.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Pegasus said:


> Wow, so many differing opinions.
> 
> There is clearly a divide between old school Doxa fans and a new breed.
> 
> ...


Saturation diving is when you stay in a pressurised living compartment which has a helium atmosphere. The helium will enter the watch - once you are finished and decompression takes place the helium expands and can blow the crystal.

The need for one isn't really to do with the depth rating of the watch - but the atmosphere that it may be in.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

KAS118 said:


> Saturation diving is when you stay in a pressurised living compartment which has a helium atmosphere. The helium will enter the watch - once you are finished and decompression takes place the helium expands and can blow the crystal.
> 
> The need for one isn't really to do with the depth rating of the watch - but the atmosphere that it may be in.


But wouldn't any descent of anywhere even approaching that depth require staying in a pressurised living compartment to re-acclimate?

That being the case the watch without is not fit for purpose, is that the case?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> ?
> 
> What exactly?
> 
> ...


I said you are making things up - AGAIN - because you said that my comments were based on hypothesis the same as yours.

They're not - for the reason I've just explained in my previous post. There's no speculation that the Sub300 is selling - but there is in your hypothesis that the 'sold out' nature is artificially induced.

As for the BB36 - again you seem to try and misrepresent things - I was merely using that as an example that Doxa are not the only ones to get their estimates wrong.

Doxa has given the Sub300T and the Sub300 a different identity - note the 'T'. However, can't recall Omega suddenly saying 'here's how our brand hierarchy has changed every time they bring out a new watch or updated an existing one.

As for 'dodging questions' I've replied to everyone that you've asked - but in 182 I pointed out this:

_"However, you haven't answered the question. You said that the new had less passion than the old. You have done nothing to explain the basis of that statement at all."_

I'm still waiting for an answer to this one. Its surely not very good to make disparaging comments about someone - but fail to explain the reasoning behind the same.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Pegasus said:


> But wouldn't any descent of anywhere even approaching that depth require staying in a pressurised living compartment to re-acclimate?
> 
> That being the case the watch without is not fit for purpose, is that the case?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you are going to be in a Helium atmosphere then, if you had a watch with you, it would be a good idea to have an HRV (although the Seiko Tuna's case design apparently avoided the need for one).

But saturation diving isn't very common.

If you're never going to be in a helium atmosphere then you have to ask yourself is there a benefit to one.

But yes, if you walked into a shop and said I want a watch suitable for a helium atmosphere and they sold you one without then, unless it has some other way of letting the helium out) it wouldn't be fit for the purpose you described if it didn't have one.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> I said you are making things up - AGAIN - because you said that my comments were based on hypothesis the same as yours.
> 
> There not - for the reason I've just explained in my previous post. There's no speculation that the Sub300 is selling - but there is in your hypothesis that the 'sold out' nature is artificially induced.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately unless you have any production numbers from Doxa, or any other inside information regarding their strategy, you do not have facts as you call them - it is simply your opinion.
Now I'm sorry to break this to you but just because you keep repeating something it doesn't make it a fact - it's simply rather dull for the reader.
Finally I would also ask you to try and be civil and not call anyone who differs from your world view a liar; it's simply not a very nice thing to do and, even though I may disagree with you, you will see that it is something I have refrained from doing as I don't believe it adds anything but hostility to the discussion.
Have a nice day and enjoy your watch 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

I just ordered a new Divingstar. 

My sixth Divingstar to be exact.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Unfortunately unless you have any production numbers from Doxa, or any other inside information regarding their strategy, you do not have facts as you call them - it is simply your opinion.


Sorry but this statement is misconceived. I didn't say how many Sub300's were being sold - merely that they are selling - and the Professional on the American website is sold out.

Both these comments are factually correct - and for you to suggest its speculation is simply wrong.

Your reasoning as to why they are sold out - is mere uncorroborated speculation.



adg31 said:


> Now I'm sorry to break this to you but just because you keep repeating something it doesn't make it a fact - it's simply rather dull for the reader.


No - the fact that they are selling - as evidenced by the people who are posting about buying them - plus the fact that the American website says they are sold out - does that.



adg31 said:


> Finally I would also ask you to try and be civil and not call anyone who differs from your world view a liar; it's simply not a very nice thing to do and, even though I may disagree with you, you will see that it is something I have refrained from doing as I don't believe it adds anything but hostility to the discussion.
> Have a nice day


I actually consider that as you are saying that I'm merely speculating about 1) people buying these and that 2) they are shown as sold out - when I'm actually relying on factual evidence is not very civil at all - and although your error has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions - the fact that you keep repeating it compounds that.

You've also (wrongly) accused me of dodging your questions - when I have actually answered them - whereas that comment seems self projection as I've pointed out - on 2 previous occasions - that you've avoided answering mine - as you still do.

The fact that you've not had the courtesy to apologise for making such an accusations is disappointing.

Stay Safe ?


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Crazy Cajun said:


> I just ordered a new Divingstar.
> 
> My sixth Divingstar to be exact.


Ahhhhh....but which one?


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

KAS118 said:


> Ahhhhh....but which one?


300T


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

I am not an employee of Doxa, just to put that out there LOL

I'm merely someone who's been a fan of the brand but hadn't had the opportunity or excuse to dive in since the 2017 LE release; With the release of this "new" 300, I now have a Sharkhunter on the way. 

It's interesting to see the divergence of OG's and new blood. Like it or not, the brand is outreaching to new audiences, and it's working at least in my case, so apologies in advance if I feel the need to defend myself for buying in


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

It is interesting that there are just a few of these new models showing up in the thread created for new owners here, I count 6-7 members who have either ordered or received one and expected there to be more.

I’m not on FB and don’t really follow the IG posts so I have no idea how many are actually showing up but thought there would be more activity in this forum. It does make me wonder how many were available at launch.

I realize it’s not a fair comparison but the recent BB58 blue release was followed by what seemed to be a hundred new owners a day posting a pic of their recent purchase.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

jcombs1 said:


> It is interesting that there are just a few of these new models showing up in the thread created for new owners here, I count 6-7 members who have either ordered or received one and expected there to be more.
> 
> I'm not on FB and don't really follow the IG posts so I have no idea how many are actually showing up but thought there would be more activity in this forum. It does make me wonder how many were available at launch.
> 
> I realize it's not a fair comparison but the recent BB58 blue release was followed by what seemed to be a hundred new owners a day posting a pic of their recent purchase.


Well for one, the Tudor forum doesn't have a resident sour grapes, it's not fair and point out every move with criticism, member trolling the room.

This brand was/is built on word of mouth, unlike Tudor who is well established globally and a cousin to Rolex perception. Any poo-poo comments by a former supporter, taints the gotta-have energy.

Not seeing the comparison: $4,000 Tudor or $1,885 Doxa. Except the $2,000 AD profit.

Squale's are going for $1,000, only thing that changes with Squale are the colorways too. You don't see all the nit picking, crying and finger pointing in that brand forum either.

Glad to see a Doxa spreading away from WIS marketing as the main driver of sales.

Ordered last night at midnight and have a shipping notice today at 11am delivery by Wed. So far, that is a good sign.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

I guess you could say I am Old Guard as I purchased my first 750GMT in 2008. There were a few hiccups and QC issues in the beginning, but after buying 10 Doxa’s over the subsequent years, they seem to be ironed out.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Wow, I wonder if Doxa is paying all these apologists on here now.

Here is the Jan Edocs style of management summed up


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

Pegasus said:


> With regard the addition of the HRV to the 300T I asked Boris Ankli in sales (EU), it was an 'upgrade' along with the clasp. I couldn't ascertain what that exactly meant.
> 
> On Instagram the question was asked and the response was to allow for saturation diving but they are both rated at 1200M so that doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> ...





Pegasus said:


> But wouldn't any descent of anywhere even approaching that depth require staying in a pressurised living compartment to re-acclimate?
> 
> That being the case the watch without is not fit for purpose, is that the case?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You should google saturation diving if you want to know more about it - its pretty fascinating.

No one is going to the Bahamas or Jamaica etc on a vacation for saturation diving. Its not SCUBA. Think highly-trained industrial divers building out an offshore oil platform on the seafloor.

In a nutshell - there are special ships for this, that contain a pressurized compartment where the divers live when they are not working. The ship arrives on station, the divers are sealed in the compartment, and the pressure chamber begins the process of "blow-down" - if the worksite is say, 65 meters deep, the compartment is pressurized to that, with an air mixture containing helium and oxygen. The term "saturation diving" is due to the fact that after this pressurization, the diver's blood becomes totally saturated with helium and other inert gases used in deep sea diving breathing air mixtures. Yes, their voices get high and squeaky, and since generally these dudes work for 30 days straight, they stay that way for 30 days.

Once the compartment is pressurized, they can get to work on the seabed. Its grueling work, with the dives often lasting for 8-12 hours. They do not ever need to decompress on their way back to the ship on the surface, since their special living compartment is at the same pressure as the jobsite. If the pressure compartment were to malfunction and pressure was lost, everyone inside would be dead in fairly short order, although not before experiencing horrendous agony.

As mentioned, typically these divers work for 2 or 3 or 4 weeks straight, and when their 30 day shift is over, pressure is slowly released from the chamber in an exact controlled fashion, and the divers are once again living among the rest of us at 1 atmospheric pressure (at sea level)

The helium release valve in dive watches are specifically and only for saturation diving. When the living chamber is pressurized, helium molecules are actually pushed into the interior of dive watches. Pretty crazy. They hang out there not hurting anything for the duration, but, when the work is over and the pressure is brought back the normal, the helium inside the watch expands and has nowhere to go, and early sat divers found their watch crystals would break or otherwise pop off. The helium release valve is a one-way valve the allows internal pressure (pressure originating from inside the watch) to escape. Again pretty much no one needs this, like, you literally do not need this unless you do this sort of work. As mentioned, there are watches that do not have an HRV (Seiko Tuna comes to mind) because they were so hilariously over-engineered so as to not need one. The internal pressure still builds up inside of it, but the watch just takes the pain like a champion and isn't damaged.

There is a great saturation diving documentary/docu-drama on Netflix called "Last Breath" that is awesome. Highly recommended.


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

adg31 said:


> Since you appear to have all the answers from Doxa perhaps you could advise how many they have sold - or how many were produced?


this thread


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Wow, I wonder if Doxa is paying all these apologists on here now.
> 
> Here is the Jan Edocs style of management summed up
> View attachment 15402473


Grow up.


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## ebtromba (Oct 18, 2015)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Wow, I wonder if Doxa is paying all these apologists on here now.


I have often wondered if die hard fans of watch brands can be as annoying as say die hard fans of sports teams and oh my lord yes they can be


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Wow, I wonder if Doxa is paying all these apologists on here now.
> 
> Here is the Jan Edocs style of management summed up
> View attachment 15402473


Ok, you've made the snidey comment - why don't you give some examples of his alleged failings?

You're supposed to be a Professor aren't you - and support your argument. At the moment it's frankly embarrassing.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

If Doxa is making payments let me know where I can sign up; I should've asked for a discount on my incoming watch


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## pkrshang (Aug 28, 2017)

Wow some of the old guard are so salty and petty. Move on if you can't handle the changes, it's a corporate brand and a mass produced product. Get over it. Enough with the endless jabs at the new management, products (plastic sub? really?), and the undeserved negativity. This is a enthusiast forum, if you're not a Doxa enthusiast anymore, MOVE ON.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Guys this has been fun, but some of you seem to have lost your sense of humour and are just being nasty. Bad form really. Everything I have said there has been justification for. Very few people know as much about it as I do. I was pissed now I'm not. Now I'm just a Doxa owner calling out what I see as bad management or QC or whatever. Those people who can't see that but prefer to attach me, well that is your prerogative. Enjoy.

I posted this elsewhere. Think what you like about it. Slag me off if you like. I don't care.

I don't have any issue with what Doxa are trying to do. For me Doxa ended almost 2 years ago after I finished the book. Lets be honest here, and I've said it a number of times to Rick Marei, just how many orange dial, tonneau case, nodeco bezel watches can you make before it becomes totally stale. They became a one trick pony. Heck the only way forward is a puce green dial  They reached the end of the road for me.

My problem was they way things transpired at the end and how the new management is trying to make it look like they did everything to revive the brand with no nod to Rick and what he achieved. But I'm over that now. I honestly don't care. I love the brand, I love my vintage and Marei era watches. I'm sure the Doxa owner base will continue to grow. Doxa are in a commodity selling business. Box shifting. Nothing wrong with that. I just like slagging them off when they screw up. Hey, I'm officially a grumpy old git 

The new Doxa isn't the old Doxa but again, so what. I was able to write a couple of books and helped revive a great brand, but I also had reached the end of the road. As it turns out it means I move on and start on a new road, which I believe is even better ;-) And again, in all honesty, if what happened at Doxa hadn't happened then I would never have had this chance. Maybe Jan Edocs and the Jenny's aren't such dicks after all. I should send them a copy of my new book.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

KAS118 said:


> You're supposed to be a Professor aren't you - and support your argument. At the moment it's frankly embarrassing.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Really, first I ever heard I was a Professor. Stirling bit of research there...faaaccckkk. Yea, I'm sorry for your embarrassment.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Really, first I ever heard I was a Professor. Stirling bit of research there...faaaccckkk. Yea, I'm sorry for your embarrassment.


Yeah - you're right it's obvious you're not.

Just someone with a MASSIVE chip on their shoulder who really can't move on.

I look forward to seeing this other project you keep going on about - the one by someone who was head of one of the best known dive watches for approximately 20 years - and during that time didn't move in on from internet sales, didn't move it on globally - and which had a reputation for crass Customer Service.

Doesn't bode well for the new project does it? But don't worry I'm sure someone will be posting the same kind of pathetic comments about that as you currently are about the new management at Doxa - and also trying to claim it's all a bit of 'fun'.

I actually started off with a lot of sympathy for Rick Marei after reading your open letter. But hey - the way you've acted that's long gone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stev0 (Oct 3, 2017)

KAS118 said:


> Yeah - you're right it's obvious you're not.
> 
> Just someone with a MASSIVE chip on their shoulder who really can't move on.
> 
> ...


Jan, is that you?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Stev0 said:


> Jan, is that you?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Inbreeding...it has bad consequences 

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## Stev0 (Oct 3, 2017)

KAS118 said:


> Inbreeding...it has bad consequences
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm sorry to hear that 

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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Stev0 said:


> I'm sorry to hear that
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I certainly would be if I were you ???


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

This thread has become embarrassing, especially Doc"s mocking : he was one of the people instrumental in the brand resurrection and he has done for Doxa much more than the various Etromba and Kas118, without his books and his website nobody today would remember the Sub.

You guys should be ashamed.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> This thread has become embarrassing, especially Doc"s mocking : he was one of the people instrumental in the brand resurrection and he has done for Doxa much more than the various Etromba and Kas118, without his books and his website nobody today would remember this brand.
> 
> You guys should be ashamed.


Well thanks for your opinion Cuthbert.

Firstly, when I became interested in Doxa's I learnt of the historic watches first; I only became aware of his book after purchasing my first. Others may have become aware of Doxa via Clive Cussler of Jaques Cousteau - although I'm not saying Peter Millar played no part in some peoples awareness

However, the people who also contributed to the Doxa Sub revival was the Jenny family and the Doxa Company - who Peter Millar has decided to slag off.

The Sub has remained mainly American focussed - where's Asia focusses on their Non-Sub watches - what, IMHO, Peter Millar has little influence on.

Now, the Jenny Family - want to roll out the Sub-brand globally - and actually get their watches in retail outlets in America and Europe - and they have every right to do this.

They also have the right to chose a CEO - and have decided on Jan Edöcs to do that. As I have explained, I can see why they want someone knew in - because whatever Peter Marei' true involvement was in the Sub, for the past 20 or so years the Sub has remained a niche brand - with a reputation for poor customer service.

Now Peter Millar may not like this and he has every right to his view - but to troll the internet slagging off the Jenny Family and Jan Edöcs in such a puerile and pathetic manner - before they have had the chance to give their ideas a go - is, IMHO, completely out of order.

Now, its been pointed out that Doxa are opening up Authorised Dealerships, have brought out an affordable watch, have brought out a watch in the state of the art material - all this under their new management.

I've asked for people who want to criticise the the Jenny Family and Jan Edöcs to explain what they consider they are doing wrong - and so for those people have offered no explanation - and have not suggested anything that they feel should have been done differently.

Now there was an issue with the Sub300, but then there were quality issues under Rick Marei's 'leadership'. But now we see that Doxa own up to their mistake and confirm they are willing to rectify matters - indeed someone says they even discussed the matter with Jan Edöcs himself.

All this - in my book - points to an improving brand - something that in my opinion I doubt Rick Marei's would have done - because he failed to do so when he was there.

But, if Peter Millar wants to embarrass himself by continuing to act a stroppy child then so be it - but people are entitled to say so.

In summary - just because Peter Millar wrote a book on Doxa doesn't give him the right to slate the new management before it's had the opportunity to roll out its plans fully - and it doesn't put him above being a troll.


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## pkrshang (Aug 28, 2017)

cuthbert said:


> This thread has become embarrassing, especially Doc"s mocking : he was one of the people instrumental in the brand resurrection and he has done for Doxa much more than the various Etromba and Kas118, without his books and his website nobody today would remember the Sub.
> 
> You guys should be ashamed.


Who are you to tell other people to be ashamed? All I see are rational arguments being made and non emotional responses unike some members are.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

This comment is even more embarrassing that the childish mocking you previously engaged, if it's true you are on the current management payroll they should look for someone more skilled than you to do PR on this board that btw it's not the official Doxa forum anymore and it's maintained thanks to an anynomous donor...I always wondered who he was but I have some suspects about him.

Perhaps he should retire his endorsement and let Jan pay for it.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> This comment is even more embarrassing that the childish mocking you previously engaged, if it's true you are on the current management payroll they should look for someone more skilled than you to do PR on this board that btw it's not the official Doxa forum anymore and it's maintained thanks to an anynomous donor...I always wondered who he was but I have some suspects about him.
> 
> Perhaps he should retire his endorsement and let Jan pay for it.


What's embarrassing is to see a qualified person behaving like an internet Troll.

What's equally embarrassing is someone who defends that behaviour.

However Cuthbert - why don't you explain to us what you think is wrong with the New Management proposals?


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> What's embarrassing is to see a qualified person behaving like an internet Troll.
> 
> What's equally embarrassing is someone who defends that behaviour.
> 
> However Cuthbert - why don't you explain to us what you think is wrong with the New Management proposals?


If there is a troll here that's you, Doc didn't start childish mocking against the new "supporters" with ad hominem atracks, and I see you keep on avoiding the question: are you working for the current management?

Regarding me I already expressed my criticism on the matter few pages ago, but it appears you didn't pay attention: no reputable brand makes a numbered reissue telling the customers it will remain a one off and three years later they make the same watch as unlimited reissue to cash up: as Doc wrote last year these people are just interested in making money at any cost with no respect for their own clients. I already mentioned what Seiko with the SLA017 and the SLA037 as a good example of how to make a new reissue.

I was considering getting a new 300T or even a Sub 200 until few days ago, now it's time to move on: Doxa Will not see my money anytime soon.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> If there is a troll here that's you, Doc didn't start childish mocking against the new "supporters" with ad hominem atracks, and I see you keep on avoiding the question: are you working for the current management?
> 
> Regarding me I already expressed my criticism on the matter few pages ago, but it appears you didn't pay attention: no reputable brand makes a numbered reissue telling the customers it will remain a one off and three years later they make the same watch as unlimited reissue to cash up: as Doc wrote last year these people are just interested in making money at any cost with no respect for their own clients. I already mentioned what Seiko with the SLA017 and the SLA037 as a good example of how to make a new reissue.
> 
> I was considering getting a new 300T or even a Sub 200 until few days ago, now it's time to move on: Doxa Will not see my money anytime soon.


Blimey Cuthbert - where did anyone make an 'ad hominem' attack.? You really do need to identify that? Oh, wait, that's right - your 'attack' at Post 125 wasn't it? All I can say is that you should stop making them then.

As for avoiding the question about am I working for Doxa Management - really didn't think that was more than another one of Peter's rather trollish sarcastic comments - but as you don't recognise that as such, no I am not employed by Doxa.

As for your criticism of the new Sub300 - that has been addressed - so again you self project accusing others of not reading things properly - when its actually you. However, for the avoidance of doubt I opined to that are numerous differences in the Sub300 and the Sub300 LE - indeed much more than when, under the previous management, they merely stuck a logo on the dial.

But thank you for clarifying the only thing you've got to complain about that is the new management have issued a similar, but different, watch to the LE you own?

I can only advise that you shouldn't buy a LE Omega Speedmaster as your next watch.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> Blimey Cuthbert - where did anyone make an 'ad hominem' attack.? You really do need to identify that?


Stop playing with words, you called Doc several times a troll, your mate called the so called "old guard" butthurt, other users have pointed out the differences you noticed on the "new" version are irrelevant and finally I have a LE Speedmaster, the 1957 Professional from 1999, never reissued since then.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> Stop playing with words, you called Doc several times a troll, your mate called the so called "old guard" butthurt, other users have pointed out the differences you noticed on the "new" version are irrelevant and finally I have a LE Speedmaster, the 1957 Professional from 1999, never reissued since then.


Actually Cuthbert - I said Perter Millar was acting/behaving like a troll - and that's because IMHO slagging of the Jenny Family and Jan Edöcs with just abusive posts and no substantiation is exactly that.

Had he actually wanted to substantiate his criticisms, and explain his views, then a proper discussion could be had around that but instead he chose to to post insults up - with you appear to condone.

The fact that he refuses do so suggest that really there is no proper substantiation available.

As for your complaints about 'ad hominid' attacks - well that what you've done previously (and again in post 247 - and event (on the Yema thread)) and that's what Peter started off on - so it seems there's one rule for you and Perter - but you expect everybody else to ignore your/his insults.

I note that you think the fact the Sub300 has numerous differences to the Sub300 LE is irrelevant - but the fact remains that the differences make them different.

However, please identify where Doxa said they would never release a similar, but different watch, to the Sub300 LE?

You've also avoided answering the query as to why you consider it unacceptable for Doxa to now issue a version of the Sub300 which has a number of differences to the LE, but it was perfectly acceptable for Doxa to issue Standard and LE versions previously with less differences.

As for your Omega Speedmaster - you're talking about the 30th anniversary one? The one looks exactly the same as the 'standard' 35750.50 version but which was just engraved on the back? See, in my view, you're saying its OK for Omega - or even the old management Doxa - to do one thing - but not the New Management Doxa. That just doesn't seem right to me.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Speaking of Speedmaster, Fratello just ran an article about this sub 300 kerfuffle - Should Limited Edition Watches Become Regular Production Models?.

They are ticked. Same as Hodinkee. And me. And doc. And a lot of other people who chased down that LE.

To re-release so soon as an unlimited run with trivial detuning is a rookie move, at best. It's sapped my enthusiasm for the brand and management.

The troll trying the "just because he wrote two books on this..." on Doc is hilarious though . You win a place on the ignore!


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

nitron135 said:


> Speaking of Speedmaster, Fratello just ran an article about this sub 300 kerfuffle - Should Limited Edition Watches Become Regular Production Models?.
> 
> They are ticked. Same as Hodinkee. And me. And doc. And a lot of other people who chased down that LE.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm - never really understood the need for people to either announce they're leaving or announce that they're putting someone on the 'ignore' list - why not just do it?

I mean its comes across as being a bit up themselves - as if anyone should really care.....when no-one does.

Just an observation.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

I'm sure that anyone out there who is new to the brand and considering joining the Doxa community will be really impressed with how well this thread is evolving and the happy, friendly tone of discussion.
Now as much as I hate contradicting the classic statement that 'It's not just a watch, it's a Doxa' - it is ultimately just a watch and really not worth getting so agitated about - life is far too short for that.
To the old guard _sic transit gloria mundi_ and to the new guard _veni vidi vici. _I would however hope that today's new guard show some compassion - if only because in time they will themselves become the old guard whom they now seek to ridicule.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

nitron135 said:


> Speaking of Speedmaster, Fratello just ran an article about this sub 300 kerfuffle - Should Limited Edition Watches Become Regular Production Models?.
> 
> They are ticked. Same as Hodinkee. And me. And doc. And a lot of other people who chased down that LE.
> 
> ...


Which could be one reason why Marei was canned. Why he set up the limiting existence of such a flagship model did him in. Now Jenny is trying to move past that limiting factor and management oversite blunder.

If the only reason you supported Doxa was to get a gold nugget that you could flip later for a huge profit, then you are not really supporting the brand.

I for one do not like the bubble crystal on the LE, which is why I didn't buy one. Did pick up a Poseidon, but with the flat crystal of the re-release, it's all systems go.

Give Doc, or is it Grumpy, a cookie, he deserves one.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Is this forum moderated at all? It’s getting out of hand.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> I'm sure that anyone out there who is new to the brand and thinking about taking the plunge before joining the Doxa community will be really impressed with how well this thread is evolving and the happy, friendly tone of discussion.
> Now as much as I hate contradicting the classic statement that 'It's not just a watch, it's a Doxa' - it is ultimately just a watch and really not worth getting so agitated about - life is far too short for that.
> To the old guard _sic transit gloria mundi_ and to the new guard _veni vidi vici. _I would however hope that today's new guard show some compassion - if only because in time they will themselves become the old guard whom they now seek to ridicule.


Firstly I think its unnecessary to start with a 'who started what first comment' - and for the avoidance of doubt you have not - but, in the interests of balance I think it could be said that both sides have 'ridiculed' the other - but then, I don't see it productive to argue who said what first now.

I sympathise with a lot of what you say.

However, it seems to me that this thread has gone the way it has - because people are passionate about the brand. Generally this would be good,

But it seems to me the division arises because people are in 1 of 2 camps:

1) The so called 'Old Guard' who, IMHO, appear more concerned with the the personalities of Doxa i.e. Rick Marei/Peter Millar; OR, who are somewhat peeved by the new release being 'similar' to a previous LE and see this is a threat to their investment; and

2) The so called 'New Guard' who. IMHO, care more about the Brand rather than specific individuals who are/were associated with that brand.

Companies survive because they make money - and to make money they have to sell products.

The Owners want to raise the profile of Doxa and brand awareness - and increase sales - and have a plan to do that which they are rolling out. This includes the introduction/re-introduction of both new and historic style watches, a more affordable watch - and increasing physical presence in various markets.

Now, if you are a fan of Doxa I would have thought you would want Doxa to succeed in their plan - because if it doesn't then it may not be around much longer.

The concern for me is that from 'Old Guard' I don't see any constructive, albeit critical, comments - but instead an apparent eagerness to try and belittle the new management before it's even got going - with destructive comments lacking substance.

Whilst I do have some sympathy for people who brought a LE my thoughts are:

1) I genuinely believe it is distinctly different;
2) Investments can go down as well as up;
3) IMHO, you should buy a watch to enjoy wearing it - not to keep it in a vault or wear it thinking its an increasing pot of gold;
4) Other companies, including Doxa, have previously brought out Non-LE similar to an LE

so I'm afraid to say, whilst I do have some sympathy it is 'limited'.

As with the view that the 'New Guard' will become the old - well I disagree. Because if Jan Edöcs fails then he will be replaced (if the Brand survives) and if he fails - I would actually think he should be replaced.

As I said - the 'New Guard' appears Brand concerned not Personality.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Which could be one reason why Marei was canned. Why he set up the limiting existence of such a flagship model did him in. Now Jenny is trying to move past that limiting factor and management oversite blunder.
> 
> If the only reason you supported Doxa was to get a gold nugget that you could flip later for a huge profit, then you are not really supporting the brand.
> 
> ...


The just-released 300 doesn't have a flat crystal, it's the same as LE crystal. You sure you are thinking of the right watch.

I didn't buy to flip. But it was an LE. That was the promise anyway.

There are many ways to produce versions of a model that are on the level without alienating existing owners. Seiko, for one, is putting on a master class.


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## tiki5698 (Jul 6, 2016)

This thread is almost as bad as the SPB14X thread in the Seiko forum 😝


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

I think there is an interesting discussion to be had, and that has been had, about weighing the continual development of the company vs. appeasing a group of its supporters. As with the Fratello Folks, I think the 2017 300 should have been a non-limited production run. It's just such a cool design and bit of history to shoehorn themselves into making it a run of 300 per dial color. But they did, so they have to live with it. So what is the best option here? Do they forever not use the 300 case design because of that 2017 limited run? Or do they tweak the 300 a bit and make it a full blown production run? Obviously they went with the latter option.

I think it's fair to ask what they were thinking: did they think the differences were substantial enough that they'd appease the 2017 owners? Maybe. Doxa owners are generally acutely aware of even the subtlest differences between subs, so maybe Doxa thought it would be enough. Did they think that enough time had passed since the 2017 run? Maybe, tough to see that though. Did they make a business decision that the number of people turned off by the production run would not significantly outweigh the number of new 300 owners? I think that probably factored into their calculus, yes.

I think most of us (perhaps that number is fewer than there were a few weeks ago) want the Doxa brand to do well, and continue to make great watches. Personally the new 300 does irk me a bit (I think it was just too soon after the 2017 run), but I do totally understand the business decisions that likely went into it. Maybe I'd feel more strongly if they reissued the Lung variants though, of which I have a more vested interest in. In regards to the discussion re: "if the differences were substantial enough between the '17 and '20 editions", to many owners they were clearly not substantial enough. I can absolutely respect that point of view. But personally, I can also appreciate how Doxa did at least_* try*_ to differentiate the two models, and make the newer one less "historically accurate" and more modern.

I won't be picking up the new 300, but at the same time I won't be swearing off the brand because of this.

I think some should take a step back and remember other people can have differing opinions about this and still be "right".


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## mastamuffin (Jul 21, 2012)

I haven't read this whole thread, just stumbled upon it after researching Doxa and hearing about their new 300 release. I have been interested in Doxa for a few months now (thanks to The Grey Nato podcast). I had no idea there was this sort of animosity about this new release. Granted, I 100% can see both view points from both the LE owners and non-owners. 

Having said that, it's honestly interested and engaging to see how strong the community feels about the release, and my inner watch geek sort of likes that there is a lively discussion about it. I havent yet decided on if I will get the Sub 300 as I have never seen a Doxa in real life and would have to order just based on pictures I have seen online of other Doxa's.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

mastamuffin said:


> I haven't read this whole thread, just stumbled upon it after researching Doxa and hearing about their new 300 release. I have been interested in Doxa for a few months now (thanks to The Grey Nato podcast). I had no idea there was this sort of animosity about this new release. Granted, I 100% can see both view points from both the LE owners and non-owners.
> 
> Having said that, it's honestly interested and engaging to see how strong the community feels about the release, and my inner watch geek sort of likes that there is a lively discussion about it. I havent yet decided on if I will get the Sub 300 as I have never seen a Doxa in real life and would have to order just based on pictures I have seen online of other Doxa's.


Where are you based?

A lot of people do like trying before buying - you never know how comfortable a watch will be, or how big/small it will look, until you try it on.

As I said before the intention of the New Management is to move away from an internet only sales model to one with Authorised Dealers as well. So I wonder if it would be better for you to wait until one opens near you?

Having said that Distance Selling Regulations allow you 7 days to cancel the Contract in European countries - but it's still hassle and postage costs, plus insurance for the watch, can still be high

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mastamuffin (Jul 21, 2012)

Oh I had no idea they were moving to AD based sales! I am in the US (southern California).


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

mastamuffin said:


> Oh I had no idea they were moving to AD based sales! I am in the US (southern California).


Yeah, there's a bit about their plans here http://en.worldtempus.com/article/i...edocs-discover-the-man-behind-doxa-28795.html

Long over due IMHO

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mastamuffin (Jul 21, 2012)

KAS118 said:


> Yeah, there's a bit about their plans here http://en.worldtempus.com/article/industry-news/people-and-interviews/doxa-10-minutes-with-jan-edocs-discover-the-man-behind-doxa-28795.html
> 
> Long over due IMHO
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I appreciate the link, thank you! I am digging deeper in this WUS Doxa forum, its interesting for sure. I came into it thinking there was just overreactions by die-hard fans, but I see that passion for a brand leads to that sort of reaction, and I feel it. I mean, when spending 4-figures on a "luxury" item, the brands background and management do have a influence on me. I have sold watches in the past because I felt the brand was departing from what I believed in.

And honestly, thats part of the fun for me. If the hobby was 100% filled with everything I wanted and no "drama" so to speak, I dont think I would be as heavily invested as I am in the watch hobby. This sort of stuff keeps it interesting and makes me want to revisit the forums multiple times a day to see what people have to say.

I dont need a watch at all, I have my phone which is more accurate that any watch I could buy, but theres so many elements to this hobby that I love, and this is one of them. Seeing people react passionately to a hobby, it brings it alive.


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

nitron135 said:


> Speaking of Speedmaster, Fratello just ran an article about this sub 300 kerfuffle - Should Limited Edition Watches Become Regular Production Models?.
> 
> They are ticked. Same as Hodinkee. And me. And doc. And a lot of other people who chased down that LE.
> 
> ...


that's a good article. doxa needs to be called out. obv there will always be a few lone wolfs hammering away at the keyboard saying they did nothing wrong.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Yeah, there's a bit about their plans here http://en.worldtempus.com/article/i...edocs-discover-the-man-behind-doxa-28795.html
> 
> Long over due IMHO
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks for sharing and I apologise if this is going to sound sarcastic but:
'"What is your proudest achievement as CEO?"
"The successful relaunch of Doxa Watches, a Swiss brand that is more than a hundred years old. A year ago, we decided to highlight its fabulous heritage in diver's watches."'
Really - were there no Doxa dive watches available or actively promoted prior to February 2019?
In my view this statement just doesn't seem very generous to the previous team who had resurrected the SUB brand over the previous 20-years.
As the old saying goes 'if I can see further it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants'; whilst Rick, Peter et al may not exactly be giants they certainly seem to have put in a lot of the legwork that Doxa are now looking to capitalise on with the SUB brand.
I can certainly see how ignoring that effort is likely to create dissent within their existing enthusiast audience who have helped keep the brand alive.
This is all purely my opinion for what it's worth!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

adg31 said:


> Thanks for sharing and I apologise if this is going to sound sarcastic but:
> '"What is your proudest achievement as CEO?"
> "The successful relaunch of Doxa Watches, a Swiss brand that is more than a hundred years old. A year ago, we decided to highlight its fabulous heritage in diver's watches."'
> Really - were there no Doxa dive watches available or actively promoted prior to February 2019?
> ...


You make it sound like they were not receiving compensation for their efforts. They did a job, got paid and just like any company in a capitalist society, the owners wanted fresh ideas. The only place I've ever seen Doxa promoted was here on WUS.

Do I own a Ford because I was buddies with Henry?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Crazy Cajun said:


> You make it sound like they were not receiving compensation for their efforts. They did a job, got paid and just like any company in a capitalist society, the owners wanted fresh ideas. The only place I've ever seen Doxa promoted was here on WUS.
> 
> Do I own a Ford because I was buddies with Henry?


True - but have Ford now written Henry out of the firms history?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Thanks for sharing and I apologise if this is going to sound sarcastic but:
> '"What is your proudest achievement as CEO?"
> "The successful relaunch of Doxa Watches, a Swiss brand that is more than a hundred years old. A year ago, we decided to highlight its fabulous heritage in diver's watches."'
> Really - were there no Doxa dive watches available or actively promoted prior to February 2019?
> ...


Firstly, you're entitled to your opinion.

However, he was being asked about his proudest achievement as CEO - and that was the relaunch of Doxa last year.

I do not believe Rick Marei nor Peter Millar were involved in that.

The article wasn't about the history of Doxa - what of course arises prior to any of the current players involvement.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> True - but have Ford now written Henry out of the firms history?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, but if you asked the current CEO of Ford about what was his greatest achievement it would be wrong for him to claim it was Henry Ford commencing mass production.

That is irrelevant to the time frame being discussed.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

tiki5698 said:


> This thread is almost as bad as the SPB14X thread in the Seiko forum


Had a look at a few pages - various comments about quality issues, time keeping colour options etc.

What's the summary of the issues? Haven't got the time, or inclination to read through 150 pages.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> No, but if you asked the current CEO of Ford about what was his greatest achievement it would be wrong for him to claim it was Henry Ford commencing mass production.
> 
> That is irrelevant to the time frame being discussed.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





KAS118 said:


> Firstly, you're entitled to your opinion.
> 
> However, he was being asked about his proudest achievement as CEO - and that was the relaunch of Doxa last year.
> 
> ...


Hopefully as is everyone - but would it have hurt to say something like 'building on the great work done by the Doxa team and enthusiasts over the past 20-years which created a real opportunity for us to expand the business into a global AD network'?
It's possibly just me - or the way its worded - but I've never liked the 'I did this' statement when something was actually done by a wider team; 'We did this' just seems more generous and (usually) accurate.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Hopefully as is everyone - but would it have hurt to say something like 'building on the great work done by the Doxa team and enthusiasts over the past 20-years which created a real opportunity for us to expand the business into a global AD network'?
> It's possibly just me - or the way its worded - but I've never liked the 'I did this' statement when something was actually done by a wider team; 'We did this' just seems more generous and (usually) accurate.


As I said, he was being asked what 'he' did - not what others did.

Furthermore he does talk about teamwork as well as the heritage of Doxa - the full heritage as well as the enthusiasts - and expanding to new customers.

He then goes on about 'We being passionate' and wanting to deliver high quality watches.

So sorry, I disagree with you. He was being asked about his greatest achievement, he discussed the full heritage of the Doxa brand and not just from 1997, and he then was inclusive about what the whole company wanted to do going forwards.

So in my view he covered all bases.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> As I said, he was being asked what 'he' did - not what others did.
> 
> Furthermore he does talk about teamwork as well as the heritage of Doxa - the full heritage as well as the enthusiasts - and expanding to new customers.
> 
> ...


You are just as entitled to your view as I am to mine - it just appears that we see things differently


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

adg31 said:


> Thanks for sharing and I apologise if this is going to sound sarcastic but:
> '"What is your proudest achievement as CEO?"
> "The successful relaunch of Doxa Watches, a Swiss brand that is more than a hundred years old. A year ago, we decided to highlight its fabulous heritage in diver's watches."'
> Really - were there no Doxa dive watches available or actively promoted prior to February 2019?
> ...


This is a blatant example of rewriting history: it appears that according to this CEO the Doxa brand was resurrected in 2019 and not in 2002.

And it says it all about the new management: they are taking credit of other people's work while so far their relaunch has been to introduce:

1) a poorly received Sub200
2) a carbon fibre watch
3) selling the chrono at ludicrous prices.
4) copy, paste and unlimit the most successful Marei watch, the Sub300.
5) changing bezel and dial of the 1200T and selling it like the 300T.

Hardly a great relaunch, however their attitude is the same as their supporters here: ignore what was done in the past, mocking the "butthurt", calling them trolls and "invite" them to leave the board.

Suum cuique I guess.


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## MHe225 (Jan 24, 2010)

So many words, so few pictures 
I come here for some light reading, entertainment and nice photos. 
Hope I'm not offending anyone with my contribution to this thread:


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

New guy checking in (center lume):










If any feathers were ruffled previously by my posts, apologies. We all like Doxa watches. Watches should be fun and enjoyable. No bad blood on my end, though I like the passion all around!


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## MonFreets87 (Jan 14, 2017)

This looks sharp! Congrats man. You can't go wrong with a Sharkhunter.



ahonobaka said:


> New guy checking in (center lume):
> 
> View attachment 15404997
> 
> ...


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## labratpip (Nov 24, 2019)

I'll be completely honest with all of you. I bought my 300t because I was looking at a 1200t for a very long time and liked the changes they made. I like the tapered bracelet and the new clasp design. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but my main concern was not the heritage of doxa......at the end of the day it's an extremely durable, water resistant, comfortable watch that looks great and is unique enough to stand out in a crowd. It may only appeal to a niche group of people, but I think the new management is trying to change that and get them out on more wrists. My wrists are 7.25, but not very wide where a watch face sits, so the short lug to lug cushion case appeals to me. It checked all of my boxes over and over and over even back when the 1200t was still being produced. The only thing that kept me from buying for so long was the negativity towards the brand in this forum. I didn't even have an account back then, but stumbled here while doing some research. After a few years, I finally decided to go with my gut and buy a watch I thought I would be perfect for me, and I was right.....I get enjoyment out of my 300t every single day. Thats what matters to me most.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

cuthbert said:


> This is a blatant example of rewriting history: it appears that according to this CEO the Doxa brand was resurrected in 2019 and not in 2002.
> 
> And it says it all about the new management: they are taking credit of other people's work while so far their relaunch has been to introduce:
> 
> ...


🤔 Oh dear - lets examining the facts:

It is a FACT that, with the new management came a relaunch. This was done with the newly designed web-site, the introduction of some new models and the introduction of Authorised Dealers. There was an article about it all here Swiss brand DOXA WATCHES shifts into high gear on international growth track - Watch I Love . It appears you must have been unaware of this?

So, as has been previously stated the Article is about the 2019 re-launch.

Turning to your other points:

1) It seems to me, from the number of people who have bought them, as demonstrated on this and other forums, the Sub200 has generally been well received. Indeed even you said:



cuthbert said:


> I was considering getting a new 300T or even a Sub 200 until few days ago, now it's time to move on: Doxa Will not see my money anytime soon.


So, not only does your comment appear inaccurate - it appears disingenuous.

2) You are correct - they have introduced a Forged Carbon Watch.

3) As has previously been said - the Chronograph was part of the Previous Management models - so perhaps you should be addressing your comments to them?










However, whether or not its a 'ridiculous' price depends upon what it is being compared to.

It's list price is £4,650 whereas a Seamaster Chrono is £4.350. More expensive yes, but not 'ridiculously' so - and a lot more rarer.

However, as confirmed above it was the 'Old Management' model - so your criticism should be directed at them.

4) The original Sub300 came out in approximately 1967 - so it is actually pre-Marei.

As for the copy and paste comment - that would mean the watches would be a facsimile.

They are neither a facsimile of the Originals - nor even the 2017 LE as there are numerous differences which have previously been pointed out to you - but you chose ignore. However, the fact remains they are still there.

5) Yes, they did change the 300T; it is a different design to the 1200T for the reasons you've pointed out - and this was part of the above mentioned re-launch that you apparently were unaware of.

I believe they are selling /marketing it as the 'Sub300T' because that is what they called it. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

However, as can be seen from the above (save for the introduction of the Carbon Fibre watch) there is little accuracy in what you say - and the compliant that is arguably most valid, i.e. the price of the Chronograph - should be laid at the door of the previous management.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

ahonobaka said:


> New guy checking in (center lume):
> 
> View attachment 15404997
> 
> ...


That does look really great.

Have you decided what you're going to do about the minute hand - keep it as is or replace it with on 'off-centred lume' one?


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> I think there is an interesting discussion to be had, and that has been had, about weighing the continual development of the company vs. appeasing a group of its supporters. As with the Fratello Folks, I think the 2017 300 should have been a non-limited production run. It's just such a cool design and bit of history to shoehorn themselves into making it a run of 300 per dial color. But they did, so they have to live with it. So what is the best option here? Do they forever not use the 300 case design because of that 2017 limited run? Or do they tweak the 300 a bit and make it a full blown production run? Obviously they went with the latter option.
> 
> I think it's fair to ask what they were thinking: did they think the differences were substantial enough that they'd appease the 2017 owners? Maybe. Doxa owners are generally acutely aware of even the subtlest differences between subs, so maybe Doxa thought it would be enough. Did they think that enough time had passed since the 2017 run? Maybe, tough to see that though. Did they make a business decision that the number of people turned off by the production run would not significantly outweigh the number of new 300 owners? I think that probably factored into their calculus, yes.
> 
> ...


Personally I think the Limited Editions should be 'Black Lung' or associated with some kind of cause 'e.g. Project Aware'.

So the differentiation should be engraving on the back - logo on the front.

If the New Management announced that as a policy then there wouldn't be any 'confusion' as to whether or not bezel markings, colours, crowns or fonts make a limited edition.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Oh dear - lets examining the facts:
> 
> It is a FACT that, with the new management came a relaunch. This was done with the newly designed web-site, the introduction of some new models and the introduction of Authorised Dealers. There was an article about it all here Swiss brand DOXA WATCHES shifts into high gear on international growth track - Watch I Love . It appears you must have been unaware of this?
> 
> ...


Much as I like my Doxa SUB 300 it is no match for the quality or innovation of a current production Omega so to charge a few hundred pounds more for the SUB 200T-Graph than for the Omega Seamaster Chronograph seems rather a push - especially as you can usually get the Omega discounted at an AD.
I don't know if you are aware of when it was officially launched (I'm not) but most of the reviews about the new SUB 200T-Graph seem to be in August 2019. However if the new CEO started in February 2019 I would have thought that he should have had some say in the final market price point?
I will say that the new SUB 300T did initially interest me as I was never a fan of the HRV on the SUB1200T; but once the remaining stock of SUB 1200T appear to be sold out along comes the addition of an HRV making the SUB 300T effectively a reissue of the SUB 1200T.
The new SUB 300 COSC comes out at a price point very close to the Tudor Black Bay - again I'm not sure that there is a direct comparison in terms of quality given the Rolex heritage and new in-house calibre.
Now ignoring the debate about the LE, even the most ardent fan of the brand can hardly say it displays much in the way of innovation given the recent history of the previous LE.
In addition the lume is out of position on the minute hand - which I believe they have now acknowledged - and to their credit have agreed to put right if owners want to return their new watch.
I also understand that if you move to an AD based distribution model your costs will increase significantly as you now have to factor in the margins of the AD; as an internet only brand not having to pay for an AD network always gave the old team a significant cost advantage. 
However, just because your cost base has increased it doesn't mean that you can pass them on to your customers without similar increases in quality.
As an owner I do hope that they make a success of it to ensure future servicing and spares availability. I know that others may interpret events differently - but in my opinion events to date are really not filling me with confidence.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Much as I like my Doxa SUB 300 it is no match for the quality or innovation of a current production Omega so to charge a few hundred pounds more for the SUB 200T-Graph than for the Omega Seamaster Chronograph seems rather a push - especially as you can usually get the Omega discounted at an AD.


Really surprised you say you like your Sub300 because all you've done is moan and whine about it and have gone on about how much better Tudor and Omega are.

Clearly being part of the Swatch Group and having a huge customer base means there are economies of scale - and therefore Omega should be able to sell watches at a cheaper price aha some smaller player.

What you get from the Doxa is something that is more exclusive.

Therefore an individual has a choice.

If you prefer the Omega - buy the Omega. Why come onto a Doxa forum and be disparaging about people who have bought the Sub200 T-Graph - because thats effectively what you are doing.

If Doxa has sold all the Sub200 T-Graphs then it made a good choice - if it doesn't then it made a bad one.

However - whatever it turns out to be - it is a choice made by the Old Management.



adg31 said:


> It's also strange how in the interview the new CEO states that the SUB 200 is one of his favourite watches to wear.
> I don't know if you are aware of when it was officially launched but most of the reviews about the new SUB 200T - Graph seem to be in August 2019. However if the new CEO started in February 2019 I would have thought that he should have had some say in the final market price point?


I find it strange that you would find it strange that a CEO would say one of his companies watches is his favourite.

However, you seem to confuse 2 watches - a Sub200 and a Sub200 T-Graph. As you unhelpfully don't link the interview you are referring to then assistance can't be sought from that - so which are you actually referring to?

I'm sure the New CEO does have a say in the mark-up or profit margin - but the costs of manufacture - which is influenced by the numbers to be produced - has already been set.

However, they are selling, as some members of this forum own them, and clearly Doxa has not felt the need to reduce the price - unlike Omega who you say can be bought at a discount.



adg31 said:


> I will say that the new SUB 300T did initially interest me as I was never a fan of the HRV on the SUB1200T; but once the remaining stock of SUB 1200T appear to be sold out along comes the addition of an HRV making the SUB 300T effectively a reissue of the SUB 1200T.


Well as others have pointed out there are differences between the 1200T and 300T - but maybe the New Doxa management wanted to signify their 'tweaked' watches along the 200, 300 etc numbering.

To be frank - not really sure what your point is in this one?



adg31 said:


> The new SUB 300 COSC comes out at a price point very close to the Tudor Black Bay - again I'm not sure that there is a direct comparison in terms of quality given the Rolex heritage and new in-house calibre.


Well its simple isn't is - if you think something else is better value - buy that.

But there are a number of people who have put their hand in their pocket sand have bought one.

Maybe they just didn't want a Tudor because frankly the whole 'look' of that can be found in many brands and micro brands - to me its as boring as hell.

Again, I'm really not sure what you're trying to achieve? I can only conclude its trying to suggest to the people who have bought then that they were foolish in buying a Doxa and should buy the the Tudor instead? If you are - then I'm sorry that's trolling.



adg31 said:


> Now ignoring the debate about the LE, even the most ardent fan of the brand can hardly say it displays much in the way of innovation given the recent history of the previous LE.
> In addition the lume is out of position on the minute hand - which I believe they have now acknowledged - and to their credit have agreed to put right if owners want to return their new watch.


Frankly all manufactures suffer quality control issues - consider the Double 9 Rolex.

And sorry - you're just referring to 'intangibles' when you say something isn't 'innovative'. Haven't seen much innovation in Rolex or Omega for ages (except the co-axil - which they bought).

The 300 is supposed to be a homage to the original 300 - and it achieves that very well. There are very few watches that look like a Doxa (other than the Sub200) - but Omega's and Rolexes (and Tudors) - you see things similar all the time.

In any event - Doxa's currently sell in far fewer numbers - and hence are rarer - that adds to their appeal.

Watch manufactures issue homages to their historic models all the time. I don't know how many iterations of the Speedmaster - really don't see much innovation there. Likewise



adg31 said:


> I also understand that if you move to an AD based distribution model your costs will increase significantly as you now have to factor in the margins of the AD; as an internet only brand not having to pay for an AD network always gave the old team a significant cost advantage.
> However, just because your cost base has increased it doesn't mean that you can pass them on to your customers without similar increases in quality.


Again- as has been already pointed out to you on numerous occasions - the staled intention off the New Management is to improve the quality.



adg31 said:


> As an owner I do hope that they make a success of it to ensure future servicing and spares availability. I know that others may interpret events differently - but in my opinion events to date are really not filling me with confidence.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So you really only concerned with the servicing element?

I believe you have an ETA movement - parts are readily available for them.

In summary people buy Doxa's for their own reason. You seem to have bought one and are unimpressed - and you have clearly stated that in your opinion Omega and Tudor are better quality and offer better value for money.

It seems the purpose of you being on this Forum is therefore to be disparaging towards those of us who do like Doxa's and are interested in their current and future models.

As you're obviously not interested in Doxa's I'm sure the Tudor and Omega forums will welcome you.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Really surprised you say you like your Sub300 because all you've done is moan and whine about it and have gone on about how much better Tudor and Omega are.
> 
> Clearly being part of the Swatch Group and having a huge customer base means there are economies of scale - and therefore Omega should be able to sell watches at a cheaper price aha some smaller player.
> 
> ...


I am not aware of moaning and whining about my Doxa - perhaps you could point these comments out for me?
However as an owner of both Omega and Doxa the Omega has, in my opinion, the better fit and finishing. I also like the technology of the newish 8800 series coaxial movements over the workhorse ETA 2824. To be clear I have nothing against the ETA 2924 which I have in a few of my other watches but surely I am entitled to an opinion even if it doesn't agree with yours?
Similarly I have not made any disparaging comments about any other owners of Doxa watches that I am aware of - again perhaps you could point them out for me?
It is a shame how you can brook no alternative views to your own without turning to insulting the other poster or trying to belittle their views.
All of this said, I can only say I'm truly happy for you that (in your view) everything about the Doxa brand is now coming up roses and anyone who dares to suggest anything to the contrary is simply wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> I am not aware of moaning and whining about my Doxa - perhaps you could point these comments out for me?
> However as an owner of both Omega and Doxa the Omega has, in my opinion, the better fit and finishing. I also like the technology of the newish 8800 series coaxial movements over an the workhorse ETA 2824. To be clear I have nothing against the ETA 2924 which I have in a few of my other watches but surely I am entitled to an opinion even if it doesn't agree with yours?
> Similarly I have not made any disparaging comments about any other owners of Doxa watches that I am aware of - again perhaps you could point them out for me?
> It is a shame how you can brook no alternative views to your own without turning to insulting the other poster or trying to belittle their views.
> ...


Sorry - you have made disparaging comments about Doxa owners - the nature of your posts has been nothing but how much better quality Tudor and Omega are - suggesting that they are therefore foolish to buy one.

You've moaned and whined about them bringing out the Sub300 - complaining they shouldn't have done so because of the LE. You've even complained that they shouldn't ever have used the case, colour or bezel again.

You have not tried to balance any criticism - with any positives - at all - such as rarity, looks (Omega Seamster IMHO look plain tacky - and what is the use of a manual HRV to anyone).

You're wrong, can 'brook' as you call it different views - but your negative ones have already been discussed _ad item_ - and you never put forward any analysis at all - all you do is repeat the negatives over and over and over.

Oh - and I don't know what 'insult' I've made to you. What you are doing is trolling the Doxa forum - that's not an insult - that's just a statement of fact.

You of course - are entitled to your opinion - but there's a General Forum for that - so you can post there if you want a debate.

However, as you haven't attempted to identify the positives or negatives I don't think you want a debate at all - you just want to sing the praises of Tudor and Omega - thats best done on their respective forums.

As for the New Management - we don't know how they will perform - but again all you've done is suggested its a given they'll fail. Indeed, when I asked you to identify what you've considered they've done wrong - you've continuously dodged answering (despite me tasing that with you) - so that's more evidence of not wanting a debate - but just merely trolling.

However, I've openly said on this forum there was an error with the minute hands - so unlike you I do 'put the other side'.

Constructive criticism/feedback is always good - but repeated negative, especially when it involves subjective and/or intangibles such as quality and innovation - is frankly nothing but trolling on a Forum dedicated to people who want to enjoy ownership of a particular brand.

Believe it or not - you're not he only person who has experienced with other brands - and before people make a purchasing decision - they do consider other options - what, with most other brands such as Omega and Tudor, involves going to an AO.

I was recently going to buy an Omega Speedmaster - but when I held it in my hand I couldn't believe how 'cheap' feeling it was. 'be never been so disappointed in my life. However, I don't feel the need to go over to the Omega Forum and say how [email protected] it is at every opportunity.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Sorry - you have made disparaging comments about Doxa owners - the nature of your posts has been nothing but how much better quality Tudor and Omega are - suggesting that they are therefore foolish to buy one.
> 
> You have not tried to balance any criticism - with any positives - at all - such as rarity, looks (Omega Seamster IMHO look plain tacky - and what is the use of a manual HRV to anyone).
> 
> ...


I simply asked you to point out where I have 'moaned and whined' about my Doxa SUB 300 Professional. I know you like facts so it should be easy for you to provide.
I asked you to provide examples of where I have been disparaging towards other Doxa watch owners. Again, given your love of facts this shouldn't be too hard.
Indeed I always try to be courteous in any correspondence - even where I cordially disagree with someone else's point of view.
For myself, I have been interested in watches for many years and like many different brands. I am also happy to acknowledge that no one watch or brand is perfect and evolution has been a constant which is what makes it interesting for me.
None of this I can see as trolling - but as I now accept there can be no opinion other than your own, what's the point of discussion, let's just stick to: 'Wow Doxa is brilliant, the company are absolutely wonderful, the management are peerless, the Customer Service unimpeachable and the watches are all beyond reproach with no equal yet produced - or indeed ever likely to be! We should all be considered honoured just to be allowed to own one of these marvels of the modern world at any price following their 2019 relaunch'.
Happy now?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> I simply asked you to point out where I have 'moaned and whined' about my Doxa SUB 300 Professional. I know you like facts so it should be easy for you to provide.
> I asked you to provide examples of where I have been disparaging towards other Doxa watch owners. Again, given your love of facts this shouldn't be too hard.
> Indeed I always try to be courteous in any correspondence - even where I cordially disagree with someone else's point of view.
> For myself, I have been interested in watches for many years and like many different brands and am happy to acknowledge that no one watch is perfect and evolution has been a constant which is what makes it interesting for me.
> ...


You've been moaning and whining about your Sub300 LE, and the fact that Doxa have brought out the Sub300 - and how awful this is - throughtout the course of this thread.

Really don't like feeding Trolls - but Post 84, 106, 109, 120 and 127 are examples

I've explained to you why you've been disparaging to Doxa owners above.

You AGAIN have avoided answering the question I've made manny a time - even though you take umbrage when someone doesn't answer one of yours.

I note that you fail to recognise that coming onto a Doxa Forum - and repeatedly and frequently slagging Doxa's off and saying how much better other makes are - is actually trolling; however, it has now been pointed out to you.

As I said, you have not sought actual debate - which at sometime would involve considerations of both positive and negatives - but as I've mentioned before you dodge i .

As I said - as you want to sing the praises of Tudor and Omega their forums are more appropriate.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> You've been moaning and whining about your Sub300 LE, and the fact that Doxa have brought out the Sub300 - and how awful this is - throughtout the course of this thread.
> 
> Really don't like feeding Trolls - but Post 84, 106, 109, 120 and 127 are examples
> 
> ...


Well if you said it, it must be true oh wise one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Well if you said it, it must be true oh wise one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There we are - you asked for examples - even although you should have known them - and then the best thing you can do is make a churlish comment like that.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> There we are - you asked for examples - even although you should have known them - and then the best thing you can do is make a churlish comment like that.


Are you never happy?
I've agreed that you are right and that I should regard your posts as holy writ.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Are you never happy?
> I've agreed that you are right and that I should regard your posts as holy writ.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now you're being that's disingenuous' - really the 'oh wise one' comment - really is churlish.


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## Fantasio (Apr 5, 2009)

I got recently interested in Doxa mainly because of Grey Nato podcast. I liked the look of 300T, but was a bit unsure about the large size. Then came 300 and I was curious to learn more, so I decided to have a look at this Doxa forum. To my surprise the tone of discussion has been really off putting, not something I expected from a brand that to my understanding has a strong enthusiast fan base.

Not sure yet if I will pull the trigger or not, but I bet the watch itself is great despite the sad keyboard duels going on here. Looking forward seeing lots of pics from new Doxa fans and their Sub 300s.



labratpip said:


> The only thing that kept me from buying for so long was the negativity towards the brand in this forum.


Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> You've been moaning and whining about your Sub300 LE, and the fact that Doxa have brought out the Sub300 - and how awful this is - throughtout the course of this thread.
> 
> Really don't like feeding Trolls - but Post 84, 106, 109, 120 and 127 are examples


Despite your desire to use the words whining, moaning and troll as many times as possible in conjunction with my name I took the time to run though and gather your 'evidence'. Perhaps you could now advise exactly what is whining, moaning or trollish about these posts:

84: On the comparison photograph posted previously in this thread I can't think many people would honestly say 'wow, those are two totally different watches!'
Would you?

106: What would the phrase 'limited edition of 300 pieces' mean to you?

109: That something is limited to a run of 300 items - no more.
I would certainly not expect to see it enter normal unlimited production in a near identical format that only the most observant could distinguish.

120: So sticking with the facts how many points of similarly rather than difference can we see?
Is the case shape different - No
Is the bezel shape different - No
Is the case back different - No
Is the bracelet different - No
Are the main dial colours different - No
Is the basic dial design different - No
Is the brand positioning different - No
Is the product name different - No
Is the calibre different - No
Is it a limited edition - No
Do I like the DivingStar - Yes
Will I buy one based on the above - No
The reality is that I am not going to agree with you - nor you with me; it's not being obtuse it's just you choose to see things differently.

127: No, the basis of my argument is that if something is described as a Limited Edition that is what it should be. We can split hairs about fonts on the dial all day long but I suspect most people would say it's basically the same watch.
Similarly if someone speaking on behalf of an organisation says that a particular model will never be produced so as to preserve the historical integrity of the brand I would expect them to honour it.
Once you lose the trust of a customer it's a hard commodity to regain.
Then again I suppose that brand enthusiasts didn't really contribute much to the success of the SUB comeback so don't really matter now.
Wherever it ships from enjoy your shiny new Doxa in good health

These all seem relatively innocuous posts to me - and I fail to see any criticism of my SUB 300 Professional therein.
Indeed you will even notice that I even stated that I like the SUB 300 COSC DivingStar in #120 - hardly the actions of a _bona fide_ troll.
As to the other posts discussing the merits or otherwise of re-issuing the SUB 300 so soon after the LE, if you are correct there must be a whole lot of trolls out there judging by online reviews such as the recent one from Fratello: Should Limited Edition Watches Become Regular Production Models?
Whilst I believe it is unlikely that you are going to retract your name calling I'm not going to start trading insults with you as I really don't believe it adds anything to the discussion.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Despite your desire to use the words whining, moaning and troll as many times as possible in conjunction with my name I took the time to run though and gather your 'evidence'. Perhaps you could now advise exactly what is whining, moaning or trollish about these posts:
> 
> 84: On the comparison photograph posted previously in this thread I can't think many people would honestly say 'wow, those are two totally different watches!'
> Would you?
> ...


Because all you're were doing is moaning about the fact that Doxa brought out the Sub300 and how similar it was to your LE.

Sure - can have a debate about the differences - what was done - but then you started claiming that Doxa should never use the case, colour or bezel again. All you have done is been negative towards them.

As for this alleged 'name calling' if you are referring to the use of the word 'trolling' that is actually an action by someone who comes onto a forum to generally insult or be disparaging about something - and that is generally all you have done in this thread.

So, its been pointed out to you that what you are doing - and as you purport you didn't know that - there fact its been pointed out to you enables you to take corrective action.

Now Fantsio has made a very good post about the negativity on this Forum - so as you appear to be saying that you don't want to be a Troll - I suggest we both leave it there .

I am sorry you feel that Doxa did something wring with the Sub300 - even although I do not agree with your point of view.

However, the Old Management is not going to return, and for the foreseeable future Doxa are not going to stop production of the Sub300. I'm afraid you're just going to have to accept that.

As I pointed out to you, if you want Ito hark on about how much better a Tudor or Omega is - then please do so in the appropriate forum.


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

Forgive my ignorance here, but why is this re-release of the 300 so different than what was done under the old management?

_(Please correct me if im wrong, im no expert, im only going from what ive seen on the forums and what I've read in Doc's excellent books)._

If I recall correctly, the 300 was released as a limited run, people went crazy for them, it was then followed shortly by another limited release (the BL editions) which annoyed the owners of the first non-BL batch who thought they had a one off special piece. Then yet another limited batch of the BL versions followed, further annoying previous customers.

I remember the uproar and anger was very similar to what we are seeing now.

It is also worth pointing out that limited edition does not equal one-time launch, and Doxa (then or now) never said it did, but thats me getting off topic..

Why is this launch so different? In my eyes they've made the right move this time round in dropping the manufactured scarcity of limited editions and just making it a general production. Surely this will avoid the pitfalls of the previous re-re-re-releases.

Also, and this bit is just my 2 cents...
For those who insist on heavy criticism of (current) Doxa, that's your perogative, but please remember to differentiate between Doxa and Doxa management. Doxa watches are still made and designed by the same hard working and talented people, in the same place as they were under the old management, criticising and their hard work because you disagree with the direction the management have taken, is incredibly disrespectful.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

Anders_Flint said:


> Forgive my ignorance here, but why is this re-release of the 300 so different than what was done under the old management?
> 
> _(Please correct me if im wrong, im no expert, im only going from what ive seen on the forums and what I've read in Doc's excellent books)._
> 
> ...


 That was not the story: the Professional came first, then the Sharkhunter and the Searambler. It was understood since the beginning it would have been an Aqualung as there are original Sub300 branded as such....there was a big discussion about the logo I recall.

What upset many people is that when the Sharkhunter AL came out it was supposed to be just 200, then after two months additional 100 were made at additional upcharge, I perfectly remember I dropped out from the last batch because I didn't want to be ripped off.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

Double post sorry.


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## Anders_Flint (Jan 26, 2019)

cuthbert said:


> That was not the story: the Professional came first, then the Sharkhunter and the Searambler. It was understood since the beginning it would have been an Aqualung as there are original Sub300 branded as such....there was a big discussion about the logo I recall.
> 
> What upset many people is that when the Sharkhunter AL came out it was supposed to be just 200, then after two months additional 100 were made at additional upcharge, I perfectly remember I dropped out from the last batch because I didn't want to be ripped off.


Thankyou for the correction.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

Anders_Flint said:


> Thankyou for the correction.


From my side the turning point was the release of the last batch of Shark hunters AL: the upcharge was more and 300euros in comparison to the previous 200 made and then I started questioning myself if Doxa were a greedy company.

In the end that budget I allocated went to the 1978 Golden Tuna reissue that fortunately Seiko will not re-release this year.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

KAS118 said:


> Because all you're were doing is moaning about the fact that Doxa brought out the Sub300 and how similar it was to your LE.
> 
> Sure - can have a debate about the differences - what was done - but then you started claiming that Doxa should never use the case, colour or bezel again. All you have done is been negative towards them.
> 
> ...


Saying that a LE model which was sold as such should remain an LE is not moaning, whining or trolling; if it wasn't intended as a LE model it simply shouldn't have been promoted as such in the first instance.
Similarly asking someone who has said it is totally different to point out these differences is also not moaning, whining or trolling: it is requesting clarification to understand your point of view.
Most of the groups I belong to allow for a fairly wide ranging discussion which frequently helps gain a greater understanding about a subject where I suspect most of us are continually learning.
However, I must say that your condescending tone and sundry unfounded personal insults are quite possibly the biggest turn off to a brand that I have yet come across - and that includes Doxa reissuing the SUB 300 as a non Limited Edition. 
Let's just leave it at that shall we.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

KAS118 said:


> *Personally I think the Limited Editions should be 'Black Lung' or associated with some kind of cause 'e.g. Project Aware'.*
> 
> So the differentiation should be engraving on the back - logo on the front.
> 
> If the New Management announced that as a policy then there wouldn't be any 'confusion' as to whether or not bezel markings, colours, crowns or fonts make a limited edition.


Yeah I agree. Doxa is in a nice situation there in that literally all they have to do is slap a logo onto the dial and collectors will go wild lol. Now that they have both the 300T and 300 in a non-limited version that's maybe what they'll do.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

adg31 said:


> Saying that a LE model which was sold as such should remain an LE is not moaning, whining or trolling; if it wasn't intended as a LE model it simply shouldn't have been promoted as such in the first instance.
> Similarly asking someone who has said it is totally different to point out these differences is also not moaning, whining or trolling: it is requesting clarification to understand your point of view.
> Most of the groups I belong to allow for a fairly wide ranging discussion which frequently helps gain a greater understanding about a subject where I suspect most of us are continually learning.
> However, I must say that your self righteous tone and sundry unfounded personal insults are quite possibly the biggest turn off to a brand that I have yet come across - and that includes Doxa reissuing the SUB 300 as a non Limited Edition.
> Let's just leave it at that shall we.


I think the fact that you criticise others (e,g. for not answering your questions) for faults you have (e,g. your continued dodging of them) demonstrates a considerable amounts of self projection on your part.

Clearly, if you wanted a debate you wouldn't dodge question. All you want to do is be completely negative about the brand - just because you feel aggrieved about your Sub300. The truth is you've got the precise watch you've paid for.

I think it was quite obvious in Post 268 you misread or misunderstood the Article - but when that was pointed out to you - rather than hold you hands up and admit your error - you made a rather lame attempt to excuse it. That speaks volumes about you.

Unlike you I haven't been slagging of Doxa throughout this thread - and it was Labratpip and Fantasio who have pointed out that the biggest turn-off was the negativity on this forum. You are the King of that negativity.

So yeah, thats leave it at that - you can go off to the Tudor and Omega forums and bring the positivity in them down now too.


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## labratpip (Nov 24, 2019)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Yeah I agree. Doxa is in a nice situation there in that literally all they have to do is slap a logo onto the dial and collectors will go wild lol. Now that they have both the 300T and 300 in a non-limited version that's maybe what they'll do.


To build on this, I think the 300t and sub300 should have always been the regular production models with the slight variations being limited editions from the beginning. It seems to me like the new ownership is trying to head in that direction and there was no way of doing that without pissing some people off. However, at the end of the day getting the 300t and sub300 onto more wrists has a chance of building the brand back up past the niche market and cult following. It's sad that a lot of people feel so upset to write the entire brand off because of this decision, but from a business standpoint they can either stay where they're at, or make an attempt to move up in the market and this looks like their attempt to do start doing so. Time will tell how that goes.

That's easy for me to say though, being that I'm not one of the people that purchased one of the 50th anniversaries.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Fresh off the FedEx truck. Ordered midnight on Sunday arrived Wednesday.

Some initial observations:
A. Crystal is flat. 
B. Screws were the easiest bracelet adjustment of any Doxa I've owned. No thread lock that strips the screw heads.
C. All hands line up exactly as designed. 
D. Date flips at exactly 12:00. Not 5 minutes before or 5 minutes after. Great attention to detail. 
E. Dial appears sharper, richer yellow and darker lettering than past Divingstar examples. 
F. Absolutely no bezel slop and minute hand lume correct. 
G. Awesome clasp and quick adjust. 
H. HRV, not needed, but there. 
I. Bezel in feet, not metric. 
J. Crown buttery smooth, absolutely no wobble. 
K. Same size as 1200, bigger than 1000. 
L. Wrist size is 7.25 for reference.
M.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Fresh off the FedEx truck. Ordered midnight on Sunday arrived Wednesday.
> 
> Some initial observations:
> A. Crystal is flat.
> ...


300T (1200T cousin) rather than the 'new' 300 being discussed in this thread. But a beautiful watch none the less!


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## ross2187 (Sep 16, 2016)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Fresh off the FedEx truck. Ordered midnight on Sunday arrived Wednesday.


Lovely piece, you're going to have a great time with it!


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## Papacgg (Apr 10, 2020)

Beautiful. I prefer the 1500 but that is a beauty


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Fresh off the FedEx truck. Ordered midnight on Sunday arrived Wednesday.
> 
> Some initial observations:
> A. Crystal is flat.
> ...


Looks a really classy quality piece - you must be over the moon with it ??


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

I see that not only are both versions of the Professional sold out - but now the Sharkhunter and Caribbean (both on rubber) are also showing as sold out on the American website. 

Seems to be doing quite well 🙂


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> I see that not only are both versions of the Professional sold out - but now the Sharkhunter and Caribbean (both on rubber) are also showing as sold out on the American website.
> 
> Seems to be doing quite well 🙂


Look, there is no denying that they are in fact selling. But without numbers, it doesn't prove or disprove how well they truly are doing. Companies do create artificial shortages, or 'sold out', to promote FOMO. I'm not saying that's what Doxa is doing, but it is a marketing tactic.

Without knowing how many they sold, you can't truly gauge how well it is selling. What if they only sold 20 of each copy? What about 100? Or maybe 1000? It's all pure speculation without numbers to prove how many they are truly moving. Hypothetically, if they only had an allocation of say 20 of those colors and sold them, that doesn't speak to a whole lot on how popular they are. If they sold 1000 that quick and sold out, then they would be killing it.

It's strange that you are gauging something without the full context and numbers to just try to somehow stick it in the faces of those that don't agree with the current doxa management? If we are going to be making speculative comments, I would speculate that you are a shill and being paid by Doxa, based on how heavily you are defending every single thing the new regime is doing as if they are infallible.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

CityMorgue said:


> Look, there is no denying that they are in fact selling. But without numbers, it doesn't prove or disprove how well they truly are doing. Companies do create artificial shortages, or 'sold out', to promote FOMO. I'm not saying that's what Doxa is doing, but it is a marketing tactic.


So we both agree they are selling then.

And your allegation of manufacturing a shortage based upon no evidence at all. It is a baseless hypothesis.

As I said previously - I'm quoting a fact - those models are shown as sold out - you can check that on the website yourself.

Doxa is a commercial company - and therefore;

1) wants to meet a demand that is there; and

2) doesn't want to over produce so has unsold stock.

To say that Doxa has artificially created a shortfall to create a Fear Of Missing Out seems, at best, misconceived.

Fear of Missing Out suggests that if you don't buy now - you won't be able to in the future.

However, with those models - you can't 'buy now'.

But these are not Limited Editions - so you will be able to buy in the future.

Clearly, just a little bit of thought about it would have lead to any reasonable person to have realised that the the hypothesis of artificially creating the 'sold out' situation didn't really add up. It is disappointing that you were not capable of that. 🙄



CityMorgue said:


> Without knowing how many they sold, you can't truly gauge how well it is selling. What if they only sold 20 of each copy? What about 100? Or maybe 1000? It's all pure speculation without numbers to prove how many they are truly moving. Hypothetically, if they only had an allocation of say 20 of those colors and sold them, that doesn't speak to a whole lot on how popular they are. If they sold 1000 that quick and sold out, then they would be killing it.


Clearly you can only work on the information that is to hand - and the actual figures are not available.

Given the current lack of Retail Outlets, the fact that generally it has only been available as an internet purchase (at least if you're outside the USA) until recently had no AOD network - has seen it remain as a niche product only really known by enthusiasts (i.e. there is a general lack of brand awareness).

So, if you look at terms of quantity sold - I'm sure the likes of Omega and Tudor have physically been sold in greater numbers. But, for your information, that wouldn't tell the whole story - because it depends really on what the sale projections were.

Both Tudor and Omega can be obtained at a discount - that suggests there is an over supply - and hence they're not selling as well as originally estimated.

Doxa haven't reduced their price - and the fact that 4 types are shown as currently sold out.

Hence, if you planned to sell 100 watches - and sold all 100 you're meeting your target.

If you planned to sell 1,000 and only sold 500 you're underperforming - you have paid for the manufacture of 500 you didn't need to and now are going to have to sell those at a discount or carry the cost of them being unsold for a period of time - all of which is going to adversely effect your profits.

You could say that Doxa should have produced more to begin with - but then we'd have to know the basis of their sales projections - and the reasonableness of their assessment of the effect of the Pandemic. Which is information that is not to hand.



CityMorgue said:


> It's strange that you are gauging something without the full context and numbers to just try to somehow stick it in the faces of those that don't agree with the current doxa management? If we are going to be making speculative comments, I would speculate that you are a shill and being paid by Doxa, based on how heavily you are defending every single thing the new regime is doing as if they are infallible.


As I said - I'm "gauging something" on the information to hand and the application of common sense. Really don't know what you're casting your aspersions based on - it isn't fact and it isn't logic - but your _'stick it in the faces of those that don't agree with the current Doxa Management'_ remark does suggest your comments are based upon some biased desire.

For your information I've been a fan of Doxa - including their pre-Sub modes for many years - and I'd like them to do well. So when it seem that their new watch is doing well I can comment as such - and I've given the reasons why I think they are doing well.

However, I think it obvious that you don't want Doxa to do well - indeed you seem to be a 'Old Management' fanboy - who I can only assume now wants Doxa to do badly.

As to your _"If we are going to be making speculative comments.."_ - for your information, as you don't appear to realise, you have been making speculative comments 🙄

As for your rather infantile comment that I'm some kind of 'shill being paid by Doxa' - had you actually made some kind of effort you would have discovered that I've been posting about various watch brands (mostly micro's) - and I posted about Doxa about 6 or so years ago including some issues that I was having with it. More recently I criticised what they did with the lumed pip. Indeed, even withe the Sub300 I mentioned about the lume on the minute hand being off.

Of course - that would have taken a small bit of effort on your part - and its is disappointing that you were just too lazy to do that - but the fact is your accusation is plainly wrong.

However, I do find it interesting that this is now the 2nd time such an accusation has been made - by people who are actually hostile to the New Management. One could speculate that the paid 'Shills' in this thread are not paid by the current Doxa Management - but instead paid by the 'Old Management' who seem so eager to see Doxa now do badly?

However, unlike you - I'm not one of the 'tin-foil hat' brigade (so I won't suggest that you're an 'Old Management Shill') - and I only hope you take yours off before it fully fries your brain.

Finally, I'm currently awaiting mine back from service - and I was going to do a post about my experience with that - which isn't going to be all 'glowing'.

But as for the New Management - I think the policy of wanting to increase sales, introduce an AOD network, have location in Germany so as to gain easy access to Europe, improve quality, make servicing easier and generally improve the ownership experience are all positives changes.

In fact I'm surprised that any sensible person would find objection to any of that......wouldn't you?


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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

Overall, it’s a little sad that a topic that should “bring people together” is causing rifts in the community.

I understand that people that bought the 50th anniversary LEs are miffed (as I would be) but as mentioned by someone else, maybe only the “lungs” should have been LE (not that that changes the exclusivity of the product that you bought)...

I’m not gonna take sides.
I hope these wounds will eventually heal and that we can continue to be a happier community again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brianmazanec (Sep 5, 2007)

Just got mine, love it!









Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Joe90 said:


> Overall, it's a little sad that a topic that should "bring people together" is causing rifts in the community.
> 
> I understand that people that bought the 50th anniversary LEs are miffed (as I would be) but as mentioned by someone else, maybe only the "lungs" should have been LE (not that that changes the exclusivity of the product that you bought)...
> 
> ...


To be honest Joe90 - I don't think (and yes, this is a bit of a theory) the Sub300 LE is the real issue to some people - but its the change of Management.

Just an observation/view.

The fact is that the Old Management have left - and are apparently going to do something else - and they won't be coming back in the near future.

So you can either want Doxa to do well - or want them to fail.


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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

KAS118 said:


> To be honest Joe90 - I don't think (and yes, this is a bit of a theory) the Sub300 LE is the real issue to some people - but its the change of Management.
> 
> Just an observation/view.
> 
> ...


Yes you're probably right.
Or it could be that the "unlimited" Doxa Sub 300 is simply seen as a harbinger of things to come... symbolising how people feel the the company may be transforming?

Not sure...

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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> So we both agree they are selling then.
> 
> And your allegation of manufacturing a shortage based upon no evidence at all. It is a baseless hypothesis.
> 
> ...


Of course they want to sell as many as they can, and maybe FOMO wasn't quite the right way to put it, but if they sold a few and sold out, without knowing numbers, it can lead people to believe that it is a hot seller, and lead to a false sense of how popular something may be.

My overall point was that just because something is selling, doesn't necessarily mean it's doing well. Only that it's selling. Without any other information, you can't really deduce much from it.

You also cannot deny that this is indeed a scenario that could play out as companies have been known to do this. To rule out that Doxa wouldn't pull such a maneuver is also misguided. We are both clearly speculating. I'm doing it to show that just because something shows as sold out, doesn't tell anyone much of anything other than some watches have sold.



KAS118 said:


> Clearly you can only work on the information that is to hand - and the actual figures are not available.
> 
> Given the current lack of Retail Outlets, the fact that generally it has only been available as an internet purchase (at least if you're outside the USA) until recently had no AOD network - has seen it remain as a niche product only really known by enthusiasts (i.e. there is a general lack of brand awareness).
> 
> ...


Outside of the fact that Omega and Tudor are bigger known brands, by numbers alone, it would tell you that they sell more and are more 'popular.' Just because they can be obtained at a discount doesn't particularly mean there is an oversupply. Companies regularly allow things to go on sale to build their brand and sell more product. Promotions can help entice new customers into the brand. It can mean either or without again, knowing what the true context of the numbers are.

Of course Doxa hasn't reduced their pricing. They never have. And they've consistently sold out of all projected limited editions over the years. And I don't believe Doxa produces all the watches at the same time. They make them in batches. So if they plan a run of 1000 limited pieces, they make them in batches of 100. So if for some reason, it's a poor seller, they just sell whatever is left of the batch. So that doesn't mean they are actually losing money, because they never produced them all to begin with.

But again, just because they sold out, could mean different things. Neither of which either of us would know.



KAS118 said:


> As I said - I'm "gauging something" on the information to hand and the application of common sense. Really don't know what you're casting your aspersions based on - it isn't fact and it isn't logic - but your _'stick it in the faces of those that don't agree with the current Doxa Management'_ remark does suggest your comments are based upon some biased desire.
> 
> For your information I've been a fan of Doxa - including their pre-Sub modes for many years - and I'd like them to do well. So when it seem that their new watch is doing well I can comment as such - and I've given the reasons why I think they are doing well.
> 
> ...


I base it upon the fact that all you have been doing is arguing that anyone who disagrees with you holds some contempt for the brand and you are here to white knight for them no matter the cost. You have consistently gone out of your way to defend any kind of disagreement towards what is going on. And I appreciate that you just assume because I have disagreements about the way the brand is being handled with the new management in no way means I want them to not do well. I honestly don't care either way. I just question some of the decisions. You can still like something and question decisions and critique the way things are handled without automatically assuming I want Doxa to fail. It's unhealthy to just defend everything as if they are perfect and can't do no wrong. How else is someone going to grow without being pointed to faults that allows them to learn and be aware of faults.

I am fully aware that I'm making speculative comments. Hence why I'm making them. I'm pointing out that you are speculating that Doxa is doing really well which is also speculative. Until you know the true numbers, you can't really gauge how well they may be doing. For all we know, they could be floundering and trying to stay afloat. Or they could equally be swimming in money and don't know what to do with their windfall.

I wonder what the common thread is here as to why not just myself would call you a shill? You're the only one that is fighting tooth and nail to try to poke holes in anyone's argument as to why they don't like any particular decision from the new management.

Obviously there were mistakes made by the old management, no one would deny that. But there is a marked difference in approach for the brand. Take that how you will.

I don't think I've seen anyone argue the policy of wanting to increase sales or distributors as a bad thing. It's the blatant disregard to what was built to even allow them to be in this position in the first place. Perception is reality a lot of the times, and us 'old guard' that have been around for a long time are concerned about the direction it's heading. A concern for the direction from what I've gathered from most of the old guard is the want to see Doxa do well, but the new management has made a lot of moves that have been polarizing, and that's usually not good business.


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

KAS118 said:


> To be honest Joe90 - I don't think (and yes, this is a bit of a theory) the Sub300 LE is the real issue to some people - but its the change of Management.
> 
> Just an observation/view.
> 
> ...


It's not just the change in management. It's multiple things that have transpired since the new management has taken over that have caused quite the backlash for the direction Doxa has been heading. There's more to this that I'm not privy to be telling, but there is more behind the scenes that makes some worried.



Joe90 said:


> Yes you're probably right.
> Or it could be that the "unlimited" Doxa Sub 300 is simply seen as a harbinger of things to come... symbolising how people feel the the company may be transforming?
> 
> Not sure...
> ...


This is part of it for sure. There are other decisions that have been made that have only been compounding upon themselves that has been causing this kind of uproar.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

brianmazanec said:


> Just got mine, love it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, I have the same but without HRV 

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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Geez, my ser# is 52,3xx
If chronological number is in place, then......


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

CityMorgue said:


> It's not just the change in management. It's multiple things that have transpired since the new management has taken over that have caused quite the backlash for the direction Doxa has been heading. There's more to this that I'm not privy to be telling, but there is more behind the scenes that makes some worried.
> 
> This is part of it for sure. There are other decisions that have been made that have only been compounding upon themselves that has been causing this kind of uproar.


OK - but what do you say these things are? This is a genuine question and I'm looking for a genuine answer.

I can sympathise that owners of the Sub300 LE are put-out a bit; but then - as identified by others above, it seems the 'Old Management' did the same kind of thing - on a number of occasions.

So if you're going to criticise Doxa for that you should be criticising both Old and New Management.

I've laid out what I believe are the Positives of the New Management are.

If you don't think they are positives then why not?

If there are other Negatives that you have about what the New Management than what are they - and what do you think they should be doing different?

Adg31 claimed he wanted to 'debate' the matter but refused to answer these simple questions - but then slagged the Product off, such as the Sub200 T-Graph as inferior quality - when it is quite obvious that he hasn't even held one - yet alone owned one. So he was in no position to criticise quality - which in any event is rather subjective.

But I genuinely would be interested to hear your views on what you believe they've done wrong ?



CityMorgue said:


> I don't think I've seen anyone argue the policy of wanting to increase sales or distributors as a bad thing. It's the blatant disregard to what was built to even allow them to be in this position in the first place. Perception is reality a lot of the times, and us 'old guard' that have been around for a long time are concerned about the direction it's heading. A concern for the direction from what I've gathered from most of the old guard is the want to see Doxa do well, but the new management has made a lot of moves that have been polarizing, and that's usually not good business.


You see CityMorgue the problem with all this is that you're just 'alluding' to things - but not identifying what they are. You say that the Management has done things to polarise people - and it's not just one thing - but 'lots'.

Now you're perfectly entitled to think that - but if you're going to criticise someone - then you should have the decency to be able to say what all these moves are - but you don't.

There is only 1 thing that has been mentioned - and thats a the bringing out of the Sub300. As we have seen from the above - the Old Management did the same kind of thing before. But the nature of your criticism isn't that the New Management is doing the same 'wrong' things as the Old - but its doing things different to them.

As for the 'sales' matter - the 500 v 1000 I was referring to is the more popular brands.

I think we're both have to agree that is a watch is selling out - then regardless of what number it actually sales - it is doing better than it not selling out.

Furthermore - if its sold out, without having to be sold at a discount, then it as maximised its anticipated return.

Personally I think (and therefore, would describe) that as doing very well - and that is why I said so I'm my post you initially replied to. However, I note you seem to think otherwise - and of course you are entitled to think that.


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## RadioWatch (Mar 29, 2019)

As a relatively new watch collector with an obsession for well-fitting thin divers, my interest in Doxa always hinged on the classic 300 case proportions, so count me as one of the folks excited by the full production run.

Is there any confirmation on the clasps being sold with the new 300 models? The Time and Tide youtube video shows the ratcheting clasp is only on the rubber strap, and the BoR bracelet comes with the older flip-lock style with a traditional divers extension. Can anyone confirm one way or another? If it's true, the rubber strap might be the way to go on this one.






And one last comment on the tone of conversation here - it is truly disappointing to see like-minded collectors bickering like school children. It seems some explanations are never enough for KAS118, who continues to belittle and attack anyone who disagrees with him. KAS, despite the fact that I largely agree with your viewpoints, I think you've gone about this in entirely the wrong way and I urge you to reread some of your posts with a clear and level head. The tone is so disrespectful, accusatory, and downright mean-spirited.

Enjoy your watches, hug your loved ones, and remember - in the end this is a fun hobby for those of us fortunate enough to be able to participate. Let's keep it fun.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

RadioWatch said:


> And one last comment on the tone of conversation here - it is truly disappointing to see like-minded collectors bickering like school children. It seems some explanations are never enough for KAS118, who continues to belittle and attack anyone who disagrees with him. KAS, despite the fact that I largely agree with your viewpoints, I think you've gone about this in entirely the wrong way and I urge you to reread some of your posts with a clear and level head. The tone is so disrespectful, accusatory, and downright mean-spirited.
> 
> Enjoy your watches, hug your loved ones, and remember - in the end this is a fun hobby for those of us fortunate enough to be able to participate. Let's keep it fun.


Well thank you for your viewpoint RadioWatch

I actually think its disrespectful, accusatory and downright mean-spirited for people to slate the New Management, posting on various forums and social media about what a mess they are making - but then continuously fail to explain what it is they are doing wrong and what they would do instead.

I also think its hypocritical to accuse others of not answering questions - but then continuously refuse to do so yourself.

Oh, and I'll be happy to receive an answer to the question - once its actually given.

I think its downright appalling to slate a quality of a product - when you have no experience of that product.

I think its downright disrespectful, accusatory and mean spirited to accuse a manufacturer of intentionally creating a 'sold out' situation - when you've got no evidence of that - and are unable explain the logic as to why they would do that with regards to the facts.

I also think its disrespectful, accusatory and downright mean-spirited to accuse people who generally support the new management of being in their pay and 'Shills'.

So as requested by you I have reflected upon your comment with a level head. After this review I consider that I have laid out the logic, and facts applied in my arguments, and explained my point of view. Whereas others have not.

So yes, let's keep it fun - and if you've got a valid complaint to make then explain why you feel that way. Don't go slagging of a company, and its new management, just because they're actually trying to take it to the next level and that resulted in a change of people at the helm.

This was supposed to be a thread about a new watch - not a slanging match against the New Management.


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## jcombs1 (Jun 4, 2016)

I am curious as to how many of these new releases were actually sold. I realize that any guess is just that, a guess, but it shouldn’t be that difficult to get a reasonable estimate.

I would assume that many, if not most, Doxa owners are either members here, part of a FB group or routinely post on IG. There may be a small percentage of owners who are not on social media of any kind but it is likely a small number of people.

I counted 6-7 total here on the forum thread for new owners but since I’m not on FB, personally, and don’t regularly post or browse IG it is difficult for me to gather these numbers.

Does anyone have any idea regarding the number of these watches posted by new owners on these sites? It would be interesting to get a head count even if it’s not completely reliable.


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

jcombs1 said:


> I am curious as to how many of these new releases were actually sold. I realize that any guess is just that, a guess, but it shouldn't be that difficult to get a reasonable estimate.
> 
> I would assume that many, if not most, Doxa owners are either members here, part of a FB group or routinely post on IG. There may be a small percentage of owners who are not on social media of any kind but it is likely a small number of people.
> 
> ...


To be honest I'm not sure its as simple as that.

The impression I get is lots owners don't necessarily go on forums. A colleague of mine belongs to one of the FB Groups - but has never one posted any photos of his; nor any of the other watches that he owns - such as a Silver Snoopy etc. Another has a Tudor and Seamaster - but doesn't belong to any FB Groups or Forums.

Indeed - Timefactors recently sold approx 160 (if I remember correctly) of their watches last time they were open - and if you went on their forum - perhaps about 20 (maybe 30) or so people posted any - and on the Microbrand Groups on Facebook I only say just a few of them.

I also recall Yema selling 1,222 of their watches on Kickstarter- again I saw very few of them on FB or forums.

Plus you'd get double counting as the people who do post on FB probably also post on a Forum as well.

I guess, what you could try and gauge is how many appeared on here within say the 1st week last time they did a release - and how many appeared this time - then you could get some kind of comparison if they were doing better, worse or approximately the same.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I agree with both view points on the new 300 - my own slant on it would be 'new' management are not bound by what the previous management did so a perfect time for them to re- release the 50th (with slight changes but to all purposes the same watch) as an unlimited model. I'd also be real pissed off if I was a 50th owner. In fact I would say the main fault is that the previous management did not see the commercial aspect of the 300 as a main ongoing model (surely they must have looked at the 50th and known how successful it could be?) - the 50th should have had something extra different about it eg logo, bezel, case back etc to let it stand as a desirable limited edition. The price of this new 300 is however verging on taking the p**s from customers - certainally cashing in but if the buyers are there and willing to pay what do I know. At that price point though the BB58 offers much more - albeit higher servicing cost no doubt with that in-house movement. I'm not really sure where the 300T stands now with a view to the price difference.


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## Joe90 (Jul 26, 2018)

8505davids said:


> I agree with both view points on the new 300 - my own slant on it would be 'new' management are not bound by what the previous management did so a perfect time for them to re- release the 50th (with slight changes but to all purposes the same watch) as an unlimited model. I'd also be real pissed off if I was a 50th owner. In fact I would say the main fault is that the previous management did not see the commercial aspect of the 300 as a main ongoing model (surely they must have looked at the 50th and known how successful it could be?) - the 50th should have had something extra different about it eg logo, bezel, case back etc to let it stand as a desirable limited edition. The price of this new 300 is however verging on taking the p**s from customers - certainally cashing in but if the buyers are there and willing to pay what do I know. At that price point though the BB58 offers much more - albeit higher servicing cost no doubt with that in-house movement. I'm not really sure where the 300T stands now with a view to the price difference.


I agree with you that the LE 50th _should_ have been a regular production model.
So that this statement doesn't cause confusion, that's not the same as saying that new management should have re-introduced it, although for various reasons I still prefer the LE 300s, so imo the regular production doesn't "devalue" the LEs in any significant way.

As for comparing the Sub 300 to a BB58 (which I've seen others do too), I would stop short of saying that I disagree.
I think many people compare watches based on price and comparative spec...but with something like a watch I find it hard to understand (but maybe that's just me).
I buy a watch based on how it looks, how it fits, how it suits my lifestyle, possibly its history...and of course the movement (though more about potential accuracy/reliability vs in-house/sourced), quality of the bracelet, etc.

I think my main point being that if you like the look and stories associated with the Doxa, you're not really going to get that with the BB58. So I think _specs_ are an additional consideration but looks and style are something that equivalent money simply can't buy.

A poor analogy might be that if I feel I want to eat a Chinese meal, I don't care that the Indian meal may provide a larger portion or offer 3 courses compared to the price of 2...it just won't hit the spot!


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

8505davids said:


> The price of this new 300 is however verging on taking the p**s from customers - certainally cashing in but if the buyers are there and willing to pay what do I know. At that price point though the BB58 offers much more - albeit higher servicing cost no doubt with that in-house movement. I'm not really sure where the 300T stands now with a view to the price difference.


I must admit that although the 300 has a COSC movement - so is about 3 grades higher plus the expensive certification costs - the Sub300T is 1200m water resistant compared to 300m for the Sub300 - so you would have thought that would have brought the costs to being more comparable?

Whilst the Black Bay may be nicely finished - and the in-house movement does add a lot of interest - it does have the lower water resistance of 200m.

I would also add that IMHO opinion I don't believe the finishing on my Sub1500T is really noticeably worse than an Omega Seamaster - indeed the Doxa is a considerably more 'substantial' watch.

I do think that Doxa should be offering'Top Grade' (i.e. the one below COSC) movements in all their watches as standard (except maybe the Sub200).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## KAS118 (Mar 23, 2014)

Hmmm....interesting - people always go on about the quality of Tudor - but this brand new one obviously has issues.










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## castle27 (Jan 12, 2009)

Joe90 said:


> I agree with you that the LE 50th _should_ have been a regular production model.
> So that this statement doesn't cause confusion, that's not the same as saying that new management should have re-introduced it, although for various reasons I still prefer the LE 300s, so imo the regular production doesn't "devalue" the LEs in any significant way.
> 
> As for comparing the Sub 300 to a BB58 (which I've seen others do too), I would stop short of saying that I disagree.
> ...


Couldn't agree with you more. Additionally, retail of a BB58 is $900-$1,200 more than the Sub 300, which is significant when talking about watches in this price point.

Re: quality of one brand vs. the other, I think they both make excellent watches, but both have their fair share of documented issues. I've only had my 300T for a couple of months now, and I don't have a single complaint about its build quality. The QC complaints I've seen on here would have been evident from the jump. My Tudor BB GMT, on the other hand, definitely _feels_ like a "nicer" watch (and it should, it was twice the price of my 300T), but I also just had to drop it off at the AD for repair due to the notorious date wheel issue. I'm not at all worried about anything like that with the DOXA.

Basically this feels like comparing a Toyota 4Runner with a BMW 3 series. One's more rugged while the other's more "premium," they're similar enough price points, and they're both great -- but it seems silly to compare the two when they're not intended to scratch the same itch.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

In the UK there is about £400 price difference between the new Sub300 and a BB58 - though if its the Doxa look and history you are after that can be had for around £1000 less with the 300T.....and thats my point.. As to ruggedness etc - well that a personal opinion (I just like cushion cases is all) though it seems to me Doxa are looking to position themselves more in the 'premium' market, no doubt to skim off more profit - and I guess what business wouldn't boost profits if it could.

I'd like to see the new 300 a bit cheaper, do away with the 300T, then fill the sizeable price gap between the 200 and 300 with another watch maybe using the 300T dial and movement, much like the old 250 that they shared with Zeno, though using the Squale style case would, as then, raise the question of why the Doxa so much more expensive. Of course if they used a 62MAS 'skindiver' style case or a top grade or the COSC movement of the 300 in a new '250' that might work.

As an aside, Eddie Platt of Timefactors (love or hate him!) went on his own forum regarding the Dreadnought and the PRS68. Both were sold as limited editions but because of ongoing demand he was considering re-issing them ,though he was at pains to point out he had resisted due to the fact that they had been sold as LEs. He tested opinion on his forum and his way round it was to issue them as smaller versions, with some small changes due to this reduction - the 'Baby' range. It helped of course that tastes were running back to smaller case sizes. The problem with the 300 LE is the design is just so right and any such changes would detrimental - a lesson for any watch maker that a LE should be based on an existing model or as a prelaunch of a new model with some additional branding/additions etc (much like the 200 LE) - one look at that design and you'd have thought they could have seen that! Yema do 'numbered' editions of their new watches for the first 100/few hundred (I forget which) - a bit of a swiz I suppose - but the 50th should have been something similar with a relevant dial logo etc. The moral is to keep your options open with your models!

Previous Doxa management also seem to have a habit of playing with increasing LE numbers it seems.


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## labratpip (Nov 24, 2019)

8505davids said:


> I'd like to see the new 300 a bit cheaper, do away with the 300T, then fill the sizeable price gap between the 200 and 300 with another watch maybe using the 300T dial and movement, much like the old 250 that they shared with Zeno, though using the Squale style case would, as then, raise the question of why the Doxa so much more expensive. Of course if they used a 62MAS 'skindiver' style case or a top grade or the COSC movement of the 300 in a new '250' that might work.


I definitely agree that the sub300 should be cheaper, but look at how mad everyone is over it just being released.....now imagine if it undercut the resale value for those people who bought the LE's and are SO fed up with Doxa.......I guess that would be great for us people who buy a watch to enjoy it when those people sell out of anger though

I actually think the 300t is at a great spot in the line. It could definitely have a better movement for the price, but mine is running better than expected after about a month or so of breaking in. What it lacks in movement, it makes up for in ruggedness and style. $1890 seems so much easier to stomach than $2450 and even if I knew about the sub300 before purchasing my 300t, I think I still would have made the same decision.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Who knows what the long term effect will be on 50th prices - short term you'd think it would have an adverse effect and be a real disappointment to owners - but did you buy it as an investment or to enjoy? Remember, the value of any investment can go up and down and any company get change ownership/management meaning they ain't held by any promises of the previous lot . At the worst you've got it cheaper than new owners of the unlimited 300 will have to pay - perhaps if more customers do come to Doxa it might long term push up interest and demand for the limited editions - lets hope so. My worry would be if the Sub300 is the thick end of £2400 what on earth will they ask for any future LEs?? Again, this could be to the advantage of 50th owners. Bottom line - I'd sooner have a 50th at its original asking price than a new Sub300 at its current price.

I'm a 300T Sharkhunter owner, and a possible future Sub300 Divingstar owner even though I complain about the price so I guess that proves Doxa's point!!


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

8505davids said:


> Who knows what the long term effect will be on 50th prices - short term you'd think it would have an adverse effect and be a real disappointment to owners - but did you buy it as an investment or to enjoy? Remember, the value of any investment can go up and down and any company get change ownership/management meaning they ain't held by any promises of the previous lot . At the worst you've got it cheaper than new owners of the unlimited 300 will have to pay - perhaps if more customers do come to Doxa it might long term push up interest and demand for the limited editions - lets hope so. My worry would be if the Sub300 is the thick end of £2400 what on earth will they ask for any future LEs?? Again, this could be to the advantage of 50th owners. Bottom line - I'd sooner have a 50th at its original asking price than a new Sub300 at its current price.
> 
> I'm a 300T Sharkhunter owner, and a possible future Sub300 Divingstar owner even though I complain about the price so I guess that proves Doxa's point!!


Fortunately I can now answer this question having just sold my beautiful Doxa SUB 300 50th Anniversary Professional full set for close to what I paid for it new back in 2016. In contrast the few new model SUB 300's on ebay do seem to be remaining unsold for some time despite discounting. 
As such, it looks like the 50th Anniversary models do still command a small premium in the market!
Sadly, it was my last Doxa and a great watch that I genuinely hated to part with - but at least I no longer have to deal with Doxa which I believe outweighs the pain of letting my watch go.
The end of a journey for me but onwards and upwards - keep safe and enjoy your watches everyone


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