# Ambit vs Fenix



## ejunge

Hey Gang,

As many of you know, I used to work in a gear shop, which is where I originally picked up my first Suunto leading to the mess that I am now.. Well, after wanting three new Suuntos in a year, I decided to go back to work at a local Gear Shop so I can continue to finance my Suunto habit (and get them at a much cheaper price). So before you ask- No, I can not get you a deal.

Okay, that being said, the Garmin Fenix has finally hit the stores. and it is an impressive piece of gear. I got a chance to play with it, and while I am not trading my Ambit anytime soon, Garmin makes a pretty impressive argument. Be Aware, that these are initial impressions only, and I did not get the chance to play with the Fenix out in the fireld.

Features: 
This is perhaps where the Garmin has the slight edge- it has Bluetooth, which means that you could (potentially) add a ton of functionality. Other than that, it has a very similar feature set to the ambit (once the update hits later this month). I was talking to another Shop Employee and he prefers the Garmin- simply because he already uses Garmin connect, and he told me, "I picked it up and instantly knew how to use it."

Size: 
They are very similar in size the biggest difference is that the Garmin does not have the Antennae "lug" sticking out. this does appear to make a difference as the Suunto locked on to satellites for GPS alomst instantly, while the Fenix looked for five minutes and never did lock on. Even as I sit here inside my office (in a building) I can get GPS reception on my Ambit.








Display:
This is a Hands Down Winner for Suunto.. The Suunto Display looks Crisp and Clean, and the Fenix... well take a look for yourself.









So that is my two cents. They are both great watches, and I am sure that if I had more time with the Fenix, I would like it more. Take it for what its worth. I have a few more pics of them side by side that I will try to post later.

Kirby


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## JoggWithoutDog

ejunge said:


> Hey Gang,
> 
> As many of you know, I used to work in a gear shop, which is where I originally picked up my first Suunto leading to the mess that I am now.. Well, after wanting three new Suuntos in a year, I decided to go back to work at a local Gear Shop so I can continue to finance my Suunto habit (and get them at a much cheaper price). So before you ask- No, I can not get you a deal.
> 
> Okay, that being said, the Garmin Fenix has finally hit the stores. and it is an impressive piece of gear. I got a chance to play with it, and while I am not trading my Ambit anytime soon, Garmin makes a pretty impressive argument. Be Aware, that these are initial impressions only, and I did not get the chance to play with the Fenix out in the fireld.
> 
> Features:
> This is perhaps where the Garmin has the slight edge- it has Bluetooth, which means that you could (potentially) add a ton of functionality. Other than that, it has a very similar feature set to the ambit (once the update hits later this month). I was talking to another Shop Employee and he prefers the Garmin- simply because he already uses Garmin connect, and he told me, "I picked it up and instantly knew how to use it."
> 
> Size:
> They are very similar in size the biggest difference is that the Garmin does not have the Antennae "lug" sticking out. this does appear to make a difference as the Suunto locked on to satellites for GPS alomst instantly, while the Fenix looked for five minutes and never did lock on. Even as I sit here inside my office (in a building) I can get GPS reception on my Ambit.
> View attachment 830834
> 
> 
> Display:
> This is a Hands Down Winner for Suunto.. The Suunto Display looks Crisp and Clean, and the Fenix... well take a look for yourself.
> 
> View attachment 830842
> 
> 
> So that is my two cents. They are both great watches, and I am sure that if I had more time with the Fenix, I would like it more. Take it for what its worth. I have a few more pics of them side by side that I will try to post later.
> 
> Kirby


It would be nice if you add a third photo just like the second one ... but with the Ambit direct to the camera and the Fenix with an angle ... the contrast of my Ambit is far better than yours ;-)
JoggWithoutDog


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## mnaranjo

JoggWithoutDog said:


> It would be nice if you add a third photo just like the second one ... but with the Ambit direct to the camera and the Fenix with an angle ... the contrast of my Ambit is far better than yours ;-)
> JoggWithoutDog


I think he is refering to the grey shadows the fenix has, don't matter the angle
That and the 120x120 vs 70x70 resolution (very important for the next tracks support) makes the Ambit better in my opinion


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## yogi1771

Think the ambit looks classier than the fenix,don't like the orange buttons and all on the fenix.


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## Mystro

I like that the Fenix doesn't have a external antenna but if it doesn't acquire a Sat as good then its a wash.I also thought the Fenix was smaller but it doesnt really look so.


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## ejunge

The (orange) button on the Left side is what threw me the most. The button just feels weird in that location. Trying to reach around the watch to hit that button with your thumb- it just doesnt work. It would be good for lefties though...


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## ejunge

Here are two better pics- yes you can clearly see the difference in the screen size between the two here.


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## roots-n-rocks

Used the Ambit extensively for a couple months and loved it! I couldn't help myself though I needed to try the fenix. So now I am a few days into using the fenix with mixed feelings. 

I like the looks of the fenix more than I thought I would, but it definitely has I much "cheaper feel" than the Ambit. On the other hand, it has a more "rugged" feel 
than the Ambit and I find myself not worrying about scratching it or banging it up like I did with the Ambit. 

Love the vibrating alerts on the Fenix. 

The distance accuracy (I use it for trailrunning) seems to be ok, but like you say, it does take forever to get a satellite fix. The Ambit is much faster and the GPS bulge on the Ambit never bothered me.

Not sure the Bluetooth is of much use yet, but theres tons of potential there. (or at least that's what I hear!)

I disagree with your buddy who said he "just knew how to use it" because he already used Garmins. 
I've had 3 different forerunner models and use garmin connect regularly, but I've been struggling to understand many of the basic functions of the fenix. Maybe it's because the fenix was rushed to market, but the manual is absolutely awful! It is super-basic and barely scratches the surface of the devices functions. Most of what I've learned has come from the other major Fenix thread on this forum. 

I've found that the Ambit has less features, but it gets them right. (and more features are promised from Suunto!) The Fenix has more features, but it seems to be full of bugs. 

I'm going to give the Fenix a month to get past the learning curve and see if garmin updates for the bugs it has, but I'm leaning toward going back to the Ambit.


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## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> Used the Ambit extensively for a couple months and loved it! I couldn't help myself though I needed to try the fenix. So now I am a few days into using the fenix with mixed feelings.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> i have had an Ambit since it was available. Before that, I have owned a T6 then T6c for many years and tried Garmin 210, 610, 310XT and 910XT. Before the Ambit I returned all of of the Garmins and kept using the T6 watches, they always worked and gave me the data I wanted for training. I have to say I am happy with the Ambit it but have not tried the fenix. I have a Garmin handheld ( Oregon 450) and never liked the interface. I think the fenix has a lot of the Garmin handheld software without much of the forerunner software and is missing parts of both. Suunto has made the best marriage of ABC and training IMHO with R-R data and GPS, no Garmin watch does that with the battery lifetime of the Ambit. Also, I seem to be one of the minority that likes Movescount. Oh well, I am looking forward to the Ambit updates axn thanks roots-n-rocks for keeping my wallet from directly comparing the Ambit and fenix. I thought this would be the outcome I would have arrived at but I am glad it was your comparison, not mine.
> 
> Sticking with the Ambit.


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## idgsd

I also have both and Ambit and the fenix and used them both mostly for hiking. I like almost everything about the Ambit, except for its distance measurement accuracy, which for me is definitly one of the most important features for using a GPS watch. On the same exact course, the Ambit will measure the distance 3% longer if I wear it on my wrist, compared to if carry it in my pocket (when I believe it measures very close to the real distance). This is very consistent on numerous walks of the same course. The fenix, on the other hand, measures the distance about the same (and close to the real distance), independent of how I carry it. I am not exactly sure why it is, but the track on Movescount or Google Earth, when the watch is on my wrist, is very "wiggly". I would speculate that the Ambit has a more directed antenna and the arm motion while walking may impact its GPS reception, compared to running (the antenna is mostly up) or when it is in my pocket. Suunto, may not apply the necessary filtering to correct this phenomenon. I also agree with some of the observations that the Ambit is better on initial Satellite acquisition, even though this can be the result of the automatic loading of the satellites almanac when syncing the Ambit. I am not aware that the fenix does the same.


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## or_watching

Mystro said:


> I like that the Fenix doesn't have a external antenna but if it doesn't acquire a Sat as good then its a wash.I also thought the Fenix was smaller but it doesnt really look so.


Hi.
I haven't noticed/read that the Fenix gets any SGEE (predicted satellite orbit) file or information. With the SIRF IV it ought to be capable of using it. But without it it will be at a disadvantage. That file being current on the Ambit makes a noticeable difference in my experience so far (essentially instant vs. 10's of seconds to a minute). The ambit fix can be ~instant even if I travel 100 miles and have a updated SGEE file. And ditto on my other el-cheapo GPS watch (MediaTek chip, not SIRF) - fix is instant with the orbit data. Right now I'd say the fenix behaves like the Ambit with a week+ old satellite orbit file.

I used the wording "noticeable difference". But to me that time difference is not a very meaningful difference. So far.

So my 2cent guess is that the orbit data is a bigger factor in Time To Fix than the antenna, in most circumstances. I'd say my fenix takes a few seconds to a few 10's of seconds to get a fix, using every day or every other day, and with no distant trips so far.

I'm expecting that if the watch antenna location or type is going to make a difference to me, it'll be under more challenging conditions: 60 sec fix + Trees + steep terrain. Which I haven't yet made it out too since I got the fenix.


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## _SBradley_

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of getting one of these watches. I currently use a Suunto t4c for running (although I do more "outdoor adventure" stuff than plain running). It's also paired with four sensors (HRM, foot POD, and 2x bike POD (speed & cadence)). However, I use a Garmin nüvi in the car and a 60Cx for hiking.

Because of the Garmin kit, I have a lot of routes/tracks stored in Garmin GDB format, and I use MapSource a lot. Obviously, though, if either watch were able to provide me with GPX files or similar, they could be loaded into MapSource and slot right into my workflow.

I'm assuming the data downloaded from the fēnix can be loaded/imported into MapSource! However, from what I've read, the only way to download data from the Ambit is actually a direct download/upload to movescount.com. Can anyone confirm if that's true? Or is it possible to download to the PC, without the requirement to upload to the website?

Other than that, I think I (slightly) prefer the Ambit. But the data download options could be the decider for me, personally.

Thanks,
Simon


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## srwilson

_SBradley_ said:


> I'm assuming the data downloaded from the fēnix can be loaded/imported into MapSource! However, from what I've read, the only way to download data from the Ambit is actually a direct download/upload to movescount.com. Can anyone confirm if that's true? Or is it possible to download to the PC, without the requirement to upload to the website?


Simon,

When you connect the Ambit to your PC it first downloads its files to your PC and places them in a folder: *?:\Users\????????\AppData\Roaming\Suunto\Moveslink2 *. Of course you will need to replace the *?* marks with the correct drive letter (C on mine) and computer name, but that is where you will find the files.

You do not have to have a internet connection to do this.

The file format can be imported and analysed in Sporttracks (a 3rd party Tracking software). As a matter of fact, once in Sporttracks you can export the move to several other formats that are acceptable for other programs and websites such as Garmin Connect, Strava, Google Earth, and many more. This is very easy to do.

Hope this helps with your decision.

-srwilson


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## _SBradley_

Thanks for that info, srwilson! I'll have to do a bit more research. As I said, I think the Ambit looks slightly nicer. And, of course, it would mean I wouldn't need to replace all my sensors.


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## ubiwan

I have just ordered a fenix after having considered the ambit as well, and after quite some frustrating experiences with Garmin. They really suck at software development/testing, but they have lured me again with the fenix... I hope I will not regret my decision... A friend of mine has an Ambit and I though it looked not as nice in real as I was expecting, mainly because of the antenna sticking out and the very rounded back, which makes it appear very thick IMO. I think (or hope...) that the design of the fenix doesn't draw as much attention to the thickness of the watch as the Ambit does. What do you guys think?

Another thing I'm missing in the comparison so far is the storage capacity for routes. As I understand it, the Ambit can only store routes consisting of 100 waypoints? If that is true, then that definitely eliminates the Ambit for me. Can somebody shed some light on this? What is the storage (in MB's/route lenght/waypoints) of the Ambit compared to the fenix? 

Finally, for me the Tempe external temperature sensor is a big advantage of the fenix. I guess Suunto will eventually add support for such a sensor as well. After all, they have finally realized they need to start supporting ANT+. But support for the tempe will probably not happen before they have created their own external temperature sensor, since otherwise they would encourage people to buy a Garmin accesory for the Ambit...

Just my thoughts on fenix vs. ambit, would like to hear what you think about these points!


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## joelc

ubiwan said:


> Another thing I'm missing in the comparison so far is the storage capacity for routes. As I understand it, the Ambit can only store routes consisting of 100 waypoints? If that is true, then that definitely eliminates the Ambit for me. Can somebody shed some light on this? What is the storage (in MB's/route lenght/waypoints) of the Ambit compared to the fenix?


With Ambit firmware 1.5, the situation is even worst than that: the limit is not 100 waypoints per route, it is 100 waypoints globally on the watch, to share between any number of routes you may have.

But an upgrade of firmware targetting mainly navigation is due for the forthcoming days. It will add the display of a sketch of the route on the watch, but I hope it will remove, or at least move higher, strong limitation as this one. If one of the goals of the upgrade due this month is to align Ambit with the level of navigation features announced with Fenix, which comes with 10,000 waypoints, Suunto has to seriously revisit this 100 waypoints limitation. Wait and see.


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## roots-n-rocks

finally had a chance to run a semi-long route today with the fenix on a course that I've done with the ambit, enabling me to compare the results of running the same course with the two units.

fenix set to "Running" profile with GPS on "normal" and data recording set to 1 second intervals to match the Ambit. 

Distance....
Ambit-11.95 miles
Fenix - 12.02 miles

Altitude gain -
Ambit - 1138 feet
Fenix - 1097 feet (Garmin Connect corrections enabled)
1588 feet (Garmin Connect corrections disabled)
1475 feet in basecamp.

So the altitude gain on the fenix remains a mystery to me. (I have no idea which one to trust), but I'm pretty happy with the 
distance similarities. The tracks on the map were almost identical.


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## martowl

joelc said:


> With Ambit firmware 1.5, the situation is even worst than that: the limit is not 100 waypoints per route, it is 100 waypoints globally on the watch, to share between any number of routes you may have.
> 
> But an upgrade of firmware targetting mainly navigation is due for the forthcoming days. It will add the display of a sketch of the route on the watch, but I hope it will remove, or at least move higher, strong limitation as this one. If one of the goals of the upgrade due this month is to align Ambit with the level of navigation features announced with Fenix, which comes with 10,000 waypoints, Suunto has to seriously revisit this 100 waypoints limitation. Wait and see.


Waypoints are not route points. You can import .klm files with ≤500 route points for any route you choose in the Ambit. However, if you add waypoints (POIs) that counts as route points. So for ONE route route points + waypoints ≤500. POIs total in the watch at any given time must be ≤100. The two types of information are distinct in the Ambit. Typically, for my longer runs ≥20 miles I rarely need more than a dozen waypoints. I draw my routes out, use GPS_Visualizer to restrict route points, import the .klm file into Movescount and then add POIs (Waypoints) in Movescount manually. This includes a beginning and end POI. The routes work well in the watch. Here is an example.


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## joelc

martowl said:


> Waypoints are not route points. You can import .klm files with ≤500 route points for any route you choose in the Ambit. However, if you add waypoints (POIs) that counts as route points. So for ONE route route points + waypoints ≤500. POIs total in the watch at any given time must be ≤100. The two types of information are distinct in the Ambit. Typically, for my longer runs ≥20 miles I rarely need more than a dozen waypoints. I draw my routes out, use GPS_Visualizer to restrict route points, import the .klm file into Movescount and then add POIs (Waypoints) in Movescount manually. This includes a beginning and end POI. The routes work well in the watch. Here is an example.


Indeed there is two distincts notions, way points and points of interests, but way points are not used on the watch for navigating, so they are almost useless, at least with the navigation features coming with firmware 1.5. With 1.5, only POIs matter for navigating and the global limit of 100 POIs on the watch is just too low.

Now, where the distinction you raised between POIs and waypoints is indeed very important is if, by any chance, the new navigation coming with upgrade due these days is taking care of *way points*, and not only POIs. Then we would be able to navigate with 500 way points per route, and that would be a major improvement... even if I hope that this limitation too will be made less restrictive, as even a limit of 500 way points is easily reached when preparing a route 30 km / 40 km / 50 km long and higher.

Where we are on the roadmap of upgrades announced by Suunto, I really believe the best is to wait for next upgrade, install it, run with it and see where we are.


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## martowl

_SBradley_ said:


> However, from what I've read, the only way to download data from the Ambit is actually a direct download/upload to movescount.com. Can anyone confirm if that's true? Or is it possible to download to the PC, without the requirement to upload to the website?
> 
> Thanks,
> Simon


Simon there are other ways to get Ambit data out as well. On a Mac rubiTrack (v3 out soon and very impressive) will directly sync .xlm files from the Movescount folder and will export .tcx files that can be directly uploaded to Garmin Connect or imported into base camp These have HR and GPS data. The .tcx files will import into Strava and other web-based training sites as well. For PCs there is another app that will do this as well but I seem to have forgotten its name, someone else here probably has it.


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## joelc

martowl said:


> Simon there are other ways to get Ambit data out as well. On a Mac rubiTrack (v3 out soon and very impressive) will directly sync .xlm files from the Movescount folder and will export .tcx files that can be directly uploaded to Garmin Connect or imported into base camp These have HR and GPS data. The .tcx files will import into Strava and other web-based training sites as well. For PCs there is another app that will do this as well but I seem to have forgotten its name, someone else here probably has it.


On PCs, SportTracks is importing data files coming from Ambit.


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## or_watching

joelc said:


> With Ambit firmware 1.5, the situation is even worst than that: the limit is not 100 waypoints per route, it is 100 waypoints globally on the watch, to share between any number of routes you may have.
> 
> But an upgrade of firmware targetting mainly navigation is due for the forthcoming days. It will add the display of a sketch of the route on the watch, but I hope it will remove, or at least move higher, strong limitation as this one. If one of the goals of the upgrade due this month is to align Ambit with the level of navigation features announced with Fenix, which comes with 10,000 waypoints, Suunto has to seriously revisit this 100 waypoints limitation. Wait and see.


Hi. 
I'm with you in this quest for >100 POI/WP in the Ambit. As much because I'm lazy an don't want to have manage them so often, as that I'd actually NEED them. But fixing the watch limit is half the story. Movescount currently makes POI management intractable even at 100. MC needs major improvements in this regard.

And btw i think Garmin said the fenix takes 1000 WPs. It's the tracklog limit that's 10,000.


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## ejunge

Thanks for that, We are always having this discussion at the shop. We all have our gear preferences, and we rarely agree on the same piece of gear. But I AM winning people over. One of the other guys was given a Core by the rep. The manager wears a Vector, and they have started playing "spot the watch" on me- as I have drools over the Core Steel (a customer tried to buy it off me), and my Elementum Terra Leather, and my Core Alu Black. They have been also drooling over the Core Pure Black and Pure White that we have in the case. 

Let me know how your enthusiasm of the Fenix changes (good and bad).

Kirby

idgsd- Are you saying that the fused speed is actually impairing distance measurement?


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## martowl

joelc said:


> Indeed there is two distincts notions, way points and points of interests, but way points are not used on the watch for navigating, so they are almost useless, at least with the navigation features coming with firmware 1.5. With 1.5, only POIs matter for navigating and the global limit of 100 POIs on the watch is just too low.
> 
> Now, where the distinction you raised between POIs and waypoints is indeed very important is if, by any chance, the new navigation coming with upgrade due these days is taking care of *way points*, and not only POIs. Then we would be able to navigate with 500 way points per route, and that would be a major improvement... even if I hope that this limitation too will be made less restrictive, as even a limit of 500 way points is easily reached when preparing a route 30 km / 40 km / 50 km long and higher.
> 
> Where we are on the roadmap of upgrades announced by Suunto, I really believe the best is to wait for next upgrade, install it, run with it and see where we are.


I agree


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## bowesmana

joelc said:


> Indeed there is two distincts notions, way points and points of interests, but way points are not used on the watch for navigating, so they are almost useless, at least with the navigation features coming with firmware 1.5. With 1.5, only POIs matter for navigating and the global limit of 100 POIs on the watch is just too low.
> 
> Now, where the distinction you raised between POIs and waypoints is indeed very important is if, by any chance, the new navigation coming with upgrade due these days is taking care of *way points*, and not only POIs. Then we would be able to navigate with 500 way points per route, and that would be a major improvement... even if I hope that this limitation too will be made less restrictive, as even a limit of 500 way points is easily reached when preparing a route 30 km / 40 km / 50 km long and higher.
> 
> Where we are on the roadmap of upgrades announced by Suunto, I really believe the best is to wait for next upgrade, install it, run with it and see where we are.


I know what you mean, but I think you got the terminology wrong. Waypoints (as defined in MC, but with no space) ARE used for navigating. Route points are taken from the <coordinates> element in the kml file. MC just refers to these as 'points'. but I like martow's "route points".

Anyway, hopefully this will all change in the next 3 days and we won't need this discussion about limits any more!


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## idgsd

ejunge said:


> Thanks for that, We are always having this discussion at the shop. We all have our gear preferences, and we rarely agree on the same piece of gear. But I AM winning people over. One of the other guys was given a Core by the rep. The manager wears a Vector, and they have started playing "spot the watch" on me- as I have drools over the Core Steel (a customer tried to buy it off me), and my Elementum Terra Leather, and my Core Alu Black. They have been also drooling over the Core Pure Black and Pure White that we have in the case.
> 
> Let me know how your enthusiasm of the Fenix changes (good and bad).
> 
> Kirby
> 
> idgsd- Are you saying that the fused speed is actually impairing distance measurement?


The increased distance with the watch on my wrist while walking, compared to when it is in my pocket, is independent on whether the fused speed is enabled or not. I tried the running, walking, trekking and trail running, as well as my own generated, profiles and the behavior is similar. I mainly walk and this distance (and the associated very poor track with a lot of lateral, short cycle movement) discrepency has confounded me from the start. Suprisingly enough, this is much less of an issue while running. In the few runs I made with the Ambit, the track is much smoother and the distance measurements are more accurate, and more similar to the "pocket" experience. At least for me, this is the most disappointing attribute of the Ambit. I emailed Suunto my findings and the resulting tracks, which clearly show the poor and "noisy" tracks while walking, but the 1.5 FW failed to fix it to my great disappointment.


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## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> roots-n-rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Used the Ambit extensively for a couple months and loved it! I couldn't help myself though I needed to try the fenix. So now I am a few days into using the fenix with mixed feelings.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> i have had an Ambit since it was available. Before that, I have owned a T6 then T6c for many years and tried Garmin 210, 610, 310XT and 910XT. Before the Ambit I returned all of of the Garmins and kept using the T6 watches, they always worked and gave me the data I wanted for training. I have to say I am happy with the Ambit it but have not tried the fenix. I have a Garmin handheld ( Oregon 450) and never liked the interface. I think the fenix has a lot of the Garmin handheld software without much of the forerunner software and is missing parts of both. Suunto has made the best marriage of ABC and training IMHO with R-R data and GPS, no Garmin watch does that with the battery lifetime of the Ambit. Also, I seem to be one of the minority that likes Movescount. Oh well, I am looking forward to the Ambit updates axn thanks roots-n-rocks for keeping my wallet from directly comparing the Ambit and fenix. I thought this would be the outcome I would have arrived at but I am glad it was your comparison, not mine.
> 
> Sticking with the Ambit.
> 
> 
> 
> aaand, I'm back. brought the fenix back tonight and got my Ambit back!
> it was worth a try, but it's definitely not the Ambit.
> Now I can go back to enjoying my watch instead of trying to figure it out.
Click to expand...


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## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> martowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> aaand, I'm back. brought the fenix back tonight and got my Ambit back!
> it was worth a try, but it's definitely not the Ambit.
> Now I can go back to enjoying my watch instead of trying to figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you are happy with it, both have limitations but I am happy with mine. Let me know if you have questions. I am bradolwin on Movescount, you can see me there too. I am pretty good with Macs and have the software figured out there, not as familiar with PCs. Let me know what your Movescount name is and I will certainly follow, looking forward to seeing how your 50 goes--don't go out too hard!
Click to expand...


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## pjc3

Real life use of Ambit:

Heading to Tasmanian Central Plateau is early spring. Planning a 3 day explore into one of the National parks. Could be a fair bit of snow around.

1. At Home: got the topo map out beside my Mac. In conjunction with it and Movescount embedded GE, I plot a few key POI - Starting point, designated camping spots, summits of peaks, track junctions, old historic huts. Because this is an alpine area you can see many of these feature on GE. I decided to do a 17 km loop passing some alpine lakes, many spots off track so I plot a route. At strategic points where I might go astray, I mark some waypoints. I can only come up with 12 useful waypoints.

2. When I fly into Tasmania I decide to go for an early morning run to visit a beautiful gorge just outside of town. It will be dark when I set out in the morning so I pull out the laptop and plot a route through the streets from my accommodation to get me to the scenic reserve and make the return trip different to clock up a mice 10km circuit. 16 waypoints so I don't get lost. Download the new route onto the AMBIT. Next morning the ambit beeps at every turn. Missed one waypoint and had to "skip waypoint" which is a real pain and needs to be refined.

3. Drive up to the mountains. Almost instantaneous GPS lock. Set out in heavy snowfall and I check my progress to the first night's camp (POI) to make sure we will get there in daylight. All going well.

4. Spend 2 days exploring the area in melting snow, using some POI in AMBIT to check progress during the days. I track all my walks using 60sec GPS fixes.

5. Get back to civilisation and download the routes. 55% battery remaining. Have immense enjoyment looking at the GE Satellite view of my ramblings in a beautiful part of the world!

I am in the minority here I know, but I have no real requirement to have >100 waypoints/POI. I am an experienced bushwalker and go off track often. I only can afford to spend a week at a time out in the bush and I use the AMBIT as a useful tool to help me make safe decisions in the field and have fun when I return.


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## or_watching

pjc3 said:


> Real life use of Ambit:
> 
> Heading to Tasmanian Central Plateau is early spring. Planning a 3 day explore into one of the National parks. Could be a fair bit of snow around.
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> 3.
> 4.
> 5.


Nice! Practical.

I'll just comment on: _"Missed one waypoint and had to "skip waypoint" which is a real pain and needs to be refined."_
Have you tried to do this on the fenix? You'll be in Kansas by the time it's done.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> roots-n-rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you are happy with it, both have limitations but I am happy with mine. Let me know if you have questions. I am bradolwin on Movescount, you can see me there too. I am pretty good with Macs and have the software figured out there, not as familiar with PCs. Let me know what your Movescount name is and I will certainly follow, looking forward to seeing how your 50 goes--don't go out too hard!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'm definitely nervous about the 50, but getting more and more confident with my long runs. I have a marathon this weekend and then in two weeks,a weekend with a 50k on saturday and a 10 mile race on sunday as my last big training weekend.
> 
> Just followed you on movescount. I haven't played around that much with the Community stuff on MC, but I'll check out your page and figure out how it's done!
> 
> -anthony
Click to expand...


----------



## roots-n-rocks

Ambit update 1.8.6 is out and available through Moveslink 2!


----------



## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> Ambit update 1.8.6 is out and available through Moveslink 2!


Got it, you did a good thing yesterday, update earlier than promised!!
I like this 3 quick views


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> Got it, you did a good thing yesterday, update earlier than promised!!
> I like this 3 quick views
> View attachment 832611
> View attachment 832612
> View attachment 832613


nice. 
what are you initial thoughts on the update?


----------



## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> nice.
> what are you initial thoughts on the update?


Looks great so far, I have used the waypoints before but this will be fun. I will let you know as I am planning a long run this weekend where I plan to input my route. One thing I am very happy about are my routes in Movescount now all show in the Gear/Navigation/Routes Section in ALPHABETICAL order. I still do not think this is the best interface implementation but far better than before. My problem is I have been importing routes for awhile and as you can see below I have 14 pages of routes--we need a searchable way of getting to these on our own pages as this is still cumbersome. Before my routes were not alphabetized and it was a guessing game to try to find one. I realized my early routes pre-Ambit were date-recorded and later as you can see in the 2nd screen shot are titled. At least now I have an idea of which page to look start.


----------



## anto1980

Hi Martowl,
is there a function to convert the Moves in Navigation Tracks directly? I need to export it into a gpx/kml file and the to import for viewing on the watch...:-|



martowl said:


> Looks great so far, I have used the waypoints before but this will be fun. I will let you know as I am planning a long run this weekend where I plan to input my route. One thing I am very happy about are my routes in Movescount now all show in the Gear/Navigation/Routes Section in ALPHABETICAL order. I still do not think this is the best interface implementation but far better than before. My problem is I have been importing routes for awhile and as you can see below I have 14 pages of routes--we need a searchable way of getting to these on our own pages as this is still cumbersome. Before my routes were not alphabetized and it was a guessing game to try to find one. I realized my early routes pre-Ambit were date-recorded and later as you can see in the 2nd screen shot are titled. At least now I have an idea of which page to look start.
> View attachment 832823
> View attachment 832824


----------



## martowl

anto1980 said:


> Hi Martowl,
> is there a function to convert the Moves in Navigation Tracks directly? I need to export it into a gpx/kml file and the to import for viewing on the watch...:-|


with the update to Movescount, you can directly import klm/gpx files to create routes and the waypoint numbers will be reduced to 1000 if greater than 1000. You can then add POIs in Movescount


----------



## or_watching

martowl said:


> with the update to Movescount, you can directly import klm/gpx files to create routes and the waypoint numbers will be reduced to 1000 if greater than 1000. You can then add POIs in Movescount


Hi.
But to the anto1980's point, AFAIK you have to export the track from MoveA then import in the tool to create RouteA. Isn't that right? (ought to be a "Send Track to Routes" button).


----------



## or_watching

martowl said:


> Waypoints are not route points. You can import .klm files with ≤500 route points for any route you choose in the Ambit. However, if you add waypoints (POIs) that counts as route points. So for ONE route route points + waypoints ≤500. POIs total in the watch at any given time must be ≤100. The two types of information are distinct in the Ambit. Typically, for my longer runs ≥20 miles I rarely need more than a dozen waypoints. I draw my routes out, use GPS_Visualizer to restrict route points, import the .klm file into Movescount and then add POIs (Waypoints) in Movescount manually. This includes a beginning and end POI. The routes work well in the watch. Here is an example.


In case folks are wondering... this header in the Movescount Navigation screen is very helpful for what the watch can store








The "Routes Points" are used to actuall draw the maps route in detail.
The POIs will show up adjacent to routes drawn on the maps, but are not part of the route
the Waypoints are part of the Routes, and are what your Navigate to along the route (e.g. 0.5miles in that direction)

Kind nice that that the Nav Waypoints and RoutesPoints are jointly associated with a single route object, yet they are distinct.
Fenix can achieve something similar by Loading a Route for navigation, and Showing a Track (if you have one) that follows the detailed path.


----------



## pjc3

Tried a fenix on the wrist yesterday. Have to admit it feels much more watch like than the AMBIT. Still far too complicated for my liking and that orange button really is a shocker.


----------



## martowl

or_watching said:


> Hi.
> But to the anto1980's point, AFAIK you have to export the track from MoveA then import in the tool to create RouteA. Isn't that right? (ought to be a "Send Track to Routes" button).


Hi or_watching, you are correct, I may have misunderstood, thanks!


----------



## monsegu

I got my Fenix and I regret slightly having sold my Ambit.

Let's do a basic comparison from Fenix point of view:

- Fenix screen res is lower and you don't have as much on screen info as the Ambit. Ambit has a lot of info on screen, that you can customize. (Especially for runners liking their numbers, ambit is amazing.)

- Ambit and Fenix trail navigation is intuitive. But ambit has the edge when you need to skip to next POI or other basic navigation function. Personally I love the way Ambit's navigation works with 2 arrows... Clever.
The navigation map is not as useful I thought it would be...( for Fenix, as I have not tried it on ambit)

- buttons. I found them in awkward position on Fenix. Navigations buttons should be on left, with 'confirm' button. Ambit is excelent for that.

- the 'Mass Storage' on Fenix is great ( the fact that you can see the watch as a computer drive). Ambit doesn't do. So on ambit you can take the file and import to other programs. Like runkeeper, google earth, other gps programs... Ambit remains only associated to 'movescount'.

- movescount for ambit is a great website, but the community is limited. Also, you can not import or export all you data from previous runing sites or softwares...I don't know GaminConnect enough... Although, because of mass storage, I can use any website.... And I love runkeeper anyway.

- POI limited at 100 with Ambit and 1000 with Fenix. Bad for Ambit, as you have to create your navigation map on movescount. I have tries to create a track on basecamp and then import in movescount, then sync with ambit, and it was not working. It generally find too many POI... I have many tracks and i could not use it Fenix doesn't have this problem. I tried to import complex track and it was ok.

- personally, I hate the 'cheap' look of the Fenix. And I loved the pro look of my Ambit! I won't take the Fenix for dinner 

to resume, personally think that ambit is at the same time more complex and more intuitive. The R&D has been better on Ambit. If Fenix is cheaper... You know why. It is full of function but this is the same difference between an iPhone and a android competitor... The finitions... Ambit is a winner, Fenix is a cheap version of ambit.

However, for me, the Mass storage, and 1000 POI only, make the Fenix a winner . that make me sad because I think Ambit is nicer, more intuitive, and easier to use Roland


----------



## martowl

or_watching said:


> Hi.
> But to the anto1980's point, AFAIK you have to export the track from MoveA then import in the tool to create RouteA. Isn't that right? (ought to be a "Send Track to Routes" button).


Actually you do not have to export and depending on what you want to do it is quite simple.

1. Go to your Navigation screen or select someone else's route.









2. Choose to edit the route, you will get an error if this is yours that the route is already used. There will be an option to copy.









3. At this point you can simply rename and save or change the route add POIs, etc. Save the route with a new name, select to use in Ambit and voilà. Route creation is done. If the route had over 1000 waypoints you will also have the option to simplify for the Ambit.









So it is almost a button, really only a 2 step process from any route/move on Movescount.


----------



## martowl

monsegu said:


> I got my Fenix and I regret slightly having sold my Ambit.
> 
> Let's do a basic comparison from Fenix point of view:
> 
> - movescount for ambit is a great website, but the community is limited. Also, you can not import or export all you data from previous runing sites or softwares...I don't know GaminConnect enough... Although, because of mass storage, I can use any website.... And I love runkeeper anyway.
> 
> Roland


Actually this is not entirely correct. 
1. The .xlsx file and .gpx files can be directly uploaded to TrainingPeaks following export where they are merged into one file
2. On a Mac rubiTrack directly syncs the .xlm files from the storage folder with one button click in rubiTrack. rubiTrack will export as a .tcx file (Garmin format) where you can upload to Garmin or about any other site (Strava etc.) I have done this, it works well.
3. On a PC Sporttracks will import the .xlm file and I believe it has export options as well.



monsegu said:


> - POI limited at 100 with Ambit and 1000 with Fenix. Bad for Ambit, as you have to create your navigation map on movescount. I have tries to create a track on basecamp and then import in movescount, then sync with ambit, and it was not working. It generally find too many POI... I have many tracks and i could not use it Fenix doesn't have this problem. I tried to import complex track and it was ok.
> 
> Roland


This is incorrect
You can import either .klm or .gpx from about anywhere including Basecamp, I have done this. I personally use Trimble as the TOPO maps in the US are free and the European maps are good as well. I rarely draw my routes in Movescount as I trail and off-trail run. Without TOPO maps it is pretty useless for me. Trimble also has iPhone and iPad apps that sync with the account on the website. You can cache the maps and I use my iPhone as a GPS, the screen is great, maps are cached and I turn it on when the info in the Ambit is not good enough.

As far as the storage, I agree with you. When the Ambit is Ant+ compatible, I hope that a portable storage solution can be developed such as Wahoo has done for Garmin units. Then I can download my data to my iPhone and continue recording


----------



## Joonatan

I'm new here, but also wanted to give my impressions about these two watches. I must say I bought an Ambit before Fenix came, but I now also had a change to try out the Fenix a bit. Can say much about the battery life etc. but here are my initial impressions:
1. Ambit has far better build quality as Fenix feels quite cheap & bulky. Ambit casing & strap connections feels more robust and stronger looking.
2. Size wise they seem quite the same.
3. Display is far better on Ambit with higher resolution.
4. Even though Fenix has nice menu transitions etc. I feel Ambit feels more straightforward and easy to operate. 
5. Finnish translation on fenix is inadequate. Haven't tested it yet on Ambit though.
6. The Alti-view is far better on Fenix with big alti reading, It's kind of useless on Ambit where the alti reading is with small font and the big alti/baro-graph is not so usable for my needs.

I'm pleased I bought an Ambit, it might lack some features of fenix, but overall it feels better and perhaps more importantly i don't have to worry too much how to use it. Even though it initially felt bit big (and I have a small wrist), I can hardly notice it anymore on my wrist.

Not sure if Fenix has that, but would really like my Ambit to be able to auto set sea-level-baro pressure to keep my altitude calibrated.


----------



## or_watching

martowl said:


> Actually you do not have to export and depending on what you want to do it is quite simple.
> So it is almost a button, really only a 2 step process from any route/move on Movescount.


Hi.
Yes, grabbing someone else's shared Route works great. I got one off MC for a new local hike.
But a track recorded on your own Amibt and uploaded to MC? I thought that was the OP's question. I haven't seen a similar easy way to do that from within your own move.


----------



## martowl

or_watching said:


> Hi.
> Yes, grabbing someone else's shared Route works great. I got one off MC for a new local hike.
> But a track recorded on your own Amibt and uploaded to MC? I thought that was the OP's question. I haven't seen a similar easy way to do that from within your own move.


This is the process I went through, the track I grabbed was one of my own uploaded to Movescount, copied, renamed and transferred to the Ambit as a route, only a couple of steps required.

OK this is an edit as I went back to my most recent move to make sure this worked and I could not find it in the gear section. As a reply to the OP and to or_watching. The route has to be PUBLIC! I just now figured this out, my last route I used was public and I did not know it. So if the route is public it will be present in your Gear/Ambit/Navigation/Routes and then you can create a copy and load into the Ambit without having to export/import.

As a note, the default for Ambit routes is private not public so you need to change this by editing your route.

Sorry this was not clear earlier and I would not have figured this out if it were not for or_watching keeping me honest


----------



## or_watching

martowl said:


> The route has to be PUBLIC! So if the route is public it will be present in your Gear/Ambit/Navigation/Routes and then you can create a copy and load into the Ambit without having to export/import.
> 
> As a note, the default for Ambit routes is private not public so you need to change this by editing your route.


OK. Excellent sleuthing Holmes! That makes sense. Suunto Sense. MC needs a track to be Public to share it with yourself. Snort.


----------



## martowl

or_watching said:


> OK. Excellent sleuthing Holmes! That makes sense. Suunto Sense. MC needs a track to be Public to share it with yourself. Snort.


Go Figure!! I agree that a make route from track is a better option. However I can imagine the board room: "How do we get the most tracks up on our website so everyone can use them?" Software engineer replies "I have an idea, if we make it easy to get routes into the Ambit if they are Public and a PITA if they are private, we will get a lot of public routes posted." mmmm, wonder if that employee got a bonus

Sorry to hear you have the 1000 mile overview problems, I do not. However, I am traveling to Wash, DC this week and loaded a couple of running routes in the watch. We will see how it behaves there.


----------



## Andreas Loeffler

monsegu said:


> ...
> 
> - Ambit and Fenix trail navigation is intuitive. But ambit has the edge when you need to skip to next POI or other basic navigation function. Personally I love the way Ambit's navigation works with 2 arrows... Clever.
> The navigation map is not as useful I thought it would be...( for Fenix, as I have not tried it on ambit)
> 
> - the 'Mass Storage' on Fenix is great ( the fact that you can see the watch as a computer drive). Ambit doesn't do. So on ambit you can take the file and import to other programs. Like runkeeper, google earth, other gps programs... Ambit remains only associated to 'movescount'.
> 
> - movescount for ambit is a great website, but the community is limited. Also, you can not import or export all you data from previous runing sites or softwares...I don't know GaminConnect enough... Although, because of mass storage, I can use any website.... And I love runkeeper anyway.
> 
> - POI limited at 100 with Ambit and 1000 with Fenix. Bad for Ambit, as you have to create your navigation map on movescount. I have tries to create a track on basecamp and then import in movescount, then sync with ambit, and it was not working. It generally find too many POI... I have many tracks and i could not use it Fenix doesn't have this problem. I tried to import complex track and it was ok.
> ...
> However, for me, the Mass storage, and 1000 POI only, make the Fenix a winner . that make me sad because I think Ambit is nicer, more intuitive, and easier to use Roland
> ...


That was exactly some point I was trying to figure out so far. Saying Fenix shows up as USB mass storage would make this device totally independent from your PC operating system, right?
Does this mean you can just copy a gpx or fit file from the Fenix to you local drive? And on the other hand store any gpx, fit, and/or tcx file for course navigation from computer folder to the fenix watch???
This would be very very much appreciated since I mainly from Linux and this would be one BIG advantage for me over Ambit.

Afaik, my Forerunner 305 does have a limit of 10.000 trackpoints in total for all stored "tracks" or better "courses" that can be used for course breadcrum navigation. This means as long as the limit is not reached a single course can have more than 1000 "trackpoints" eg. I'm able to upload a 100 mile course with more than 3000 trackpoints to a FR305.
Can one comment how Fenix really handles this? Can you "upload" a course file with 3000 trackpoints and see all of them?
Having only 1000 on a rather large course really makes navigation at junctions difficult.

andreas


----------



## gsnip

I just picked up an Ambit. On Wed was at REI with an Ambit in one hand and a Fenix in the other. Thanks to this forum and dcrainmaker.com, I was able to compare these excellent watches that on the surface seem very similar.

What got me started on a hunt for GPS watch was frustration I had with a Garmin 610 - very nice watch (touch screen is kinda annoying) however is not waterproof, so I had to remove it while at the beach, swimming laps, and could wear during triathlons. I decided I wanted a tool I could take with me in any conditions and on any adventure.

Primary reasons for getting the Ambit:
1) The Ambit is more of a training tool vs the Fenix. For example: a) Fenix does record data unless GPS is active b) heart rate data for Ambit is excellent (PTE, RR, etc);
2) Ambit seems to be more running oriented as the Fenix is more of a hiking/adventure device. Garmin could easily make the Fenix do it all, however apparently is sticking to a more targeted approach;
3) I have both Garmin and Suunto products and have been happy with both, but really love my Core, and have always wanted a Core with GPS - Ambit is very much like this;
4) Ambit seems more solid and stable;
5) I am comfortable with Sunnto interface.

The Fenix has an overall amazing feature set, is really cool and I like the standard strap setup, however for me is lacking in 2 key areas - running and workout support. When Ambit gets ANT+ next month will be perfect.

Ultimately I think everyone will be happy either way as both are great products from companies that provide great customer experiences.

This forum is a great resource, thanks everyone for your inputs!


----------



## monsegu

I have to report another annoying feature from Fenix.

1- Fenix doesn't not have maps compatible. So you can not create a route on basecamp, as you don't have the layer you need and there is no google map in basecamp.

2- Garmin connect let you create Courses, but Courses can not be send to Fenix.

So I am guessing I will have to use google earth or another external software and export to GPX file and import into Fenix.

Ambit doesn't have the problem as you can create a map from movescount and send to Ambit or import GPX.

Is there any other option for Fenix?


----------



## cobrapa

For fenix, there are free maps you can load to base camp. Then the route can be made and loaded on to the fenix. You can even import a map, but the detail can be to much for good display on fenix's small screen.


----------



## ssorc

monsegu said:


> I have to report another annoying feature from Fenix.
> 2- Garmin connect let you create Courses, but Courses can not be send to Fenix.
> Is there any other option for Fenix?


As of firmware v2.70, you can now send courses from Garmin Connect to the fenix. I've not tested it yet to see if there are any limitations or issues, just read the software release note.

From Garmin: fenix Updates & Downloads:

Changes made from version 2.60 to 2.70:

Added ability to import Garmin Connect Courses as tracks for navigation, viewing on map, etc. Plan a course at http://connect.garmin.com/courses.


----------



## ubiwan

ubiwan said:


> I have just ordered a fenix after having considered the ambit as well, and after quite some frustrating experiences with Garmin. They really suck at software development/testing, but they have lured me again with the fenix... I hope I will not regret my decision... A friend of mine has an Ambit and I though it looked not as nice in real as I was expecting, mainly because of the antenna sticking out and the very rounded back, which makes it appear very thick IMO. I think (or hope...) that the design of the fenix doesn't draw as much attention to the thickness of the watch as the Ambit does. What do you guys think?
> 
> Another thing I'm missing in the comparison so far is the storage capacity for routes. As I understand it, the Ambit can only store routes consisting of 100 waypoints? If that is true, then that definitely eliminates the Ambit for me. Can somebody shed some light on this? What is the storage (in MB's/route lenght/waypoints) of the Ambit compared to the fenix?
> 
> Finally, for me the Tempe external temperature sensor is a big advantage of the fenix. I guess Suunto will eventually add support for such a sensor as well. After all, they have finally realized they need to start supporting ANT+. But support for the tempe will probably not happen before they have created their own external temperature sensor, since otherwise they would encourage people to buy a Garmin accesory for the Ambit...
> 
> Just my thoughts on fenix vs. ambit, would like to hear what you think about these points!


An update on the post above: I am now the proud owner of a Suunto Ambit! I could get a good deal on the Ambit so I cancelled the order on the fenix. I have not regretted my decision a single moment. The Ambit is really a great watch and the quality and look and feel of it is much better than any of the garmins I owned (FR405, 310XT, FR210). Regarding my concerns mentioned above: my first impression was plainly wrong, this is a beautiful watch and the antenna is not such a problem when you are actually wearing it. The thickness is OK as well. And I LOVE the inverted display, makes it very slick indeed. The limited routepoints capacity is also not a real problem, I have tried and you can easily create 100K+ routes on movescount, with the handy function to limit the route points to 1000. So my advice to anybody who's considering either the fenix or the Ambit: go for the Ambit. It may have not all the features of the fenix but it is solid as a rock and everything simply works as advertised, which is a nice change after years of using buggy garmin crap. Movescount is fine as well, although the GUI is fairly chaotic. I only hope that Suunto will also deliver support for external temperature sensors and/or create their own (ANT+) sensor, because I really like that feature on the fenix.


----------



## ubiwan

ubiwan said:


> An update on the post above: I am now the proud owner of a Suunto Ambit! I could get a good deal on the Ambit so I cancelled the order on the fenix. I have not regretted my decision a single moment. The Ambit is really a great watch and the quality and look and feel of it is much better than any of the garmins I owned (FR405, 310XT, FR210). Regarding my concerns mentioned above: my first impression was plainly wrong, this is a beautiful watch and the antenna is not such a problem when you are actually wearing it. The thickness is OK as well. And I LOVE the inverted display, makes it very slick indeed. The limited routepoints capacity is also not a real problem, I have tried and you can easily create 100K+ routes on movescount, with the handy function to limit the route points to 1000. So my advice to anybody who's considering either the fenix or the Ambit: go for the Ambit. It may have not all the features of the fenix but it is solid as a rock and everything simply works as advertised, which is a real relief after years of using buggy garmin crap. Movescount is fine as well, although the GUI is fairly chaotic. I only hope that Suunto will also deliver support for external temperature sensors and/or create their own (ANT+) sensor, because I really like that feature on the fenix.


Although the Ambit is great, there is also room for improvement ;-) https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/ambit-upgrade-suggestions-sent-suunto-751693-4.html#post5528880


----------



## mnaranjo

The difference with Garmin is suunto is listening what users demand and they surely will try to implement all possible features we demand in the future


----------



## evobda2

Hi all,

Im hoping i can get some advice here, I'm wanting to buy either the Fenix or Ambit, and im not entirely tech savvy as some so may not quiet know which one is best suited for me. Rather than get the speel from a sales person, i thought id get some advice on real time users.
I have a few things which i would like to use it for, some more than others. And im sure there may be features im unaware of i may use in the future.

Some things ive gathered so far are:
- Fenix is has a lot of functions. And is more able to be set up as you want it, al be it slightly harder for us simple folk to use..
- Ambit has slightly easier controls, but perhaps less function and connectivity

Personally i like the look of the Ambit better. Looks a lot better made. And i understand they are working on updates all the time.

What im after:
1 - Primarily used as a mtb gps, and also connect back to Strava. With this id like gps map, time, speed throughout sections (if possible?) but also work in with Strava and its sections which you record times on leader boards etc. Strava will be the main program id like to use as a few of my freinds use the same. I know the Ambit cant connect directly as yet.. but there are other ways and apparently are working on it?? (confirmed or?)
Also im hoping either the watch or Strava can do a kind of auto-stop, so if we stop on the trail its not timing it etc.. And will recognise when we get going again and start logging this as the trail etc. (think i saw this on the Fenix).

2 - Plot fishing gps locations and be able to transfer them back to my mac. So when i go out next time i can simply load these points etc.. I may also be able to plot co ordinates in before hand, and would like the watch to direct me to these coordinates. I also read the Fenix has other tide/fishing time readings as well..?

3 - Basic map directions for mtb riding and hiking on previous uncharted territory. Im assuming i can plot the course/map on my mac prior and transfer to the watch?

4 - Sunrise/Sunset is a nice feature to know how long you have left.

5 - Reliable GPS pick up and decent accuracy

6 - Long battery life, decent screen resolution etc

Id also like to use it sometimes as a standard time watch. So looks are still important. But obviously id like it to do the things above.
Im sure there are other things ill think up i might want it for but at the moment this is the main things.

Many thanks in advance, as i know some of you are very knowledgable with these watches.
Cheers!
Ev


----------



## shinew

I don't have a Fenix, only played around with it for a bit, but I did do some research before I (just) purchased my Ambit, my first Suunto watch and I like it alot. If the listed features are what most important for you, I think you'll want fenix(1-5), Ambit only wins on #6 because of its higher screen res.

I've had couple of different Garmin watch(305 & 610), so far my impression is that the Ambit has a better build quality, which is one of the main reasons I went with Ambit. In the past years I had to replace my Garmin FR610 3x times because of various issues with the quality such as chipped screen(probably from hitting on a tree branch w/o noticing), loose pin & badly rusted back. But Garmin support seems decent and replaced my watch every time I called. The only feature I'm truly missing from Garmin is the vibrate feature, which is also on the Fenix. 

In short, my impression for fenix vs suunto is quantity(features) vs quality(better build, each available feature is better designed).


----------



## martowl

evobda2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Im hoping i can get some advice here, I'm wanting to buy either the Fenix or Ambit, and im not entirely tech savvy as some so may not quiet know which one is best suited for me. Rather than get the speel from a sales person, i thought id get some advice on real time users.
> I have a few things which i would like to use it for, some more than others. And im sure there may be features im unaware of i may use in the future.
> 
> Some things ive gathered so far are:
> - Fenix is has a lot of functions. And is more able to be set up as you want it, al be it slightly harder for us simple folk to use..
> - Ambit has slightly easier controls, but perhaps less function and connectivity
> 
> Personally i like the look of the Ambit better. Looks a lot better made. And i understand they are working on updates all the time.
> 
> What im after:
> 1 - Primarily used as a mtb gps, and also connect back to Strava. With this id like gps map, time, speed throughout sections (if possible?) but also work in with Strava and its sections which you record times on leader boards etc. Strava will be the main program id like to use as a few of my freinds use the same. I know the Ambit cant connect directly as yet.. but there are other ways and apparently are working on it?? (confirmed or?)
> Also im hoping either the watch or Strava can do a kind of auto-stop, so if we stop on the trail its not timing it etc.. And will recognise when we get going again and start logging this as the trail etc. (think i saw this on the Fenix).


IMO autostop is only useful for cycling or running streets with lights. On trails if you walk (up steep inclines) every Garmin watch I have owned 210, 610 310XT and 910XT stop and start because it thinks you are not moving. This is very annoying and I have never found it to work. It is much simpler to start and stop the watch manually. Frandkly, for training you should not stop the watch. The "rest: you get from stopping on the trail is part of the workout and IMO the entire workout including stops should be recorded. After all in races once the clock starts it does not stop until you cross the finish or drop.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> IMO After all in races once the clock starts it does not stop until you cross the finish or drop.


drop?? whaddya mean drop?
never heard of it.


----------



## Joakim Agren

roots-n-rocks said:


> drop?? whaddya mean drop?
> never heard of it.


Drop means to quit or not finish the race. It is short for drop out.


----------



## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> drop?? whaddya mean drop?
> never heard of it.


Joakim is correct, typically when you drop out or DNF you are close to drop (to the ground) as well. In my first 50 mile race at 5 miles from the finish I literally dropped (to the ground) when my entire hamstring cramped, I was able to hobble across the finish so I did not DNF


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> Joakim is correct, typically when you drop out or DNF you are close to drop (to the ground) as well. In my first 50 mile race at 5 miles from the finish I literally dropped (to the ground) when my entire hamstring cramped, I was able to hobble across the finish so I did not DNF


HA! I know what dropping is! (I guess I have to work on expressing my sarcasm in words!)

I was just joking and implying that dropping is not an option! (but in truth, a killer case of Plantar Fasciitis knocked my out of my first 50k attempt back in April)

BTW, Martowl, thanks for the info on Rubitracks. Just bought the full version. Love having an offline program for piece of mind.


----------



## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> HA! I know what dropping is! (I guess I have to work on expressing my sarcasm in words!)
> 
> I was just joking and implying that dropping is not an option! (but in truth, a killer case of Plantar Fasciitis knocked my out of my first 50k attempt back in April)
> 
> BTW, Martowl, thanks for the info on Rubitracks. Just bought the full version. Love having an offline program for piece of mind.


Tell me how you like it, the biggest improvement with rubiTrack 3 is the Training Stress information, it is as good as Training Peaks IMO.

BTW you can use this ;-) when you need to


----------



## _SBradley_

*Sensor Queries*

Hi guys,

I'm really tempted now to go for an Ambit. However, if I do go for it, it will be the most expensive watch I've ever bought -- by some way. So, to make sure I don't end up having to spend more than I expect, I have a question I'd love to have answered before I take the plunge. If anyone can help, I'd be grateful.

I currently have a Suunto t4c with a bunch of sensors. Can any/all of these sensors be used with the Ambit?

- Comfort belt. I'm particularly interested about this: it's NOT the "dual" belt. But are there multiple versions of the ANT belt? I found this in the Ambit FAQ: "The Suunto Ambit has been designed to work with the new Suunto ANT Belt." It's the word "new" that worries me. Buying the Ambit without the belt would save me ~£45, which is only £4 off the standalone price, so.... 

- PC POD. I've just discovered the answer to this one: the Ambit comes with a cable, and that's the only way to transfer data from the watch. Question, though: How does the USB cable attach? It looks like it's more of a clip than a plug? Is there any danger of constant connection/disconnection damaging the watch, or of the port becoming loose? Does the charger use the same connection? And does the watch charge whilst connected to a reasonable USB port?

- Foot POD (old style). From what I've read, the food POD can be used for running cadence as well as FusedSpeed, which looks interesting. I have the feeling the old and new (smaller) foot PODs are electronically compatible, which should mean the Ambit can link to the old style foot POD...?

- Bike POD & cadence POD. As far as I know, these haven't been upgraded since I bought my Suunto kit, so they should be compatible?  (As an aside, I actually thought these were the same part, but apparently not: the bike POD comes with a handlebar holder for the watch. Maybe the actual PODs are the same, electronically, and it just matters whether you pair them as bike or cadence?)

Sorry, that's a lot of questions, but I'd really appreciate any advice anyone has to offer. 

Thanks,
Simon


----------



## bowesmana

*Re: Sensor Queries*



_SBradley_ said:


> - PC POD. I've just discovered the answer to this one: the Ambit comes with a cable, and that's the only way to transfer data from the watch. Question, though: How does the USB cable attach? It looks like it's more of a clip than a plug? Is there any danger of constant connection/disconnection damaging the watch, or of the port becoming loose? Does the charger use the same connection? And does the watch charge whilst connected to a reasonable USB port?


You can see a picture of the cable in pjc3's post here. That also talks about charging. There are 4 small gold pins that clip into a recessed space under the watch. I can't see how it could damage the watch in any way. The clip has quite a strong spring. The watch charges when the cable is plugged into a USB port on a computer. It also charges from a number of charging devices, see the earlier link for details.



_SBradley_ said:


> - Foot POD (old style). From what I've read, the food POD can be used for running cadence as well as FusedSpeed, which looks interesting. I have the feeling the old and new (smaller) foot PODs are electronically compatible, which should mean the Ambit can link to the old style foot POD...?


It doesn't currently support the foot pod, but there is a possibility that it will support the foot pod in the November firmware update. I have a footopd, which I used with my t6c. (I never knew there was old and new) so am hoping it will support that in November.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> Tell me how you like it, the biggest improvement with rubiTrack 3 is the Training Stress information, it is as good as Training Peaks IMO.
> 
> BTW you can use this ;-) when you need to


Wait! Is V3 out already?? I thought it wasn't released yet.


----------



## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> Wait! Is V3 out already?? I thought it wasn't released yet.


No, it is not out yet, but a little birdie told me Oct 18 and, what I said before is correct, I have been beta testing and it is one heckuva update. I will be canceling my Training Peaks subscription as rubiTrack 3 is better,especially for the training parameters. I think you will get a free upgrade or something since you purchased recently.


----------



## martowl

*Re: Sensor Queries*



_SBradley_ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm really tempted now to go for an Ambit. However, if I do go for it, it will be the most expensive watch I've ever bought -- by some way. So, to make sure I don't end up having to spend more than I expect, I have a question I'd love to have answered before I take the plunge. If anyone can help, I'd be grateful.
> 
> I currently have a Suunto t4c with a bunch of sensors. Can any/all of these sensors be used with the Ambit?
> 
> - Comfort belt. I'm particularly interested about this: it's NOT the "dual" belt. But are there multiple versions of the ANT belt? I found this in the Ambit FAQ: "The Suunto Ambit has been designed to work with the new Suunto ANT Belt." It's the word "new" that worries me. Buying the Ambit without the belt would save me ~£45, which is only £4 off the standalone price, so....
> 
> - PC POD. I've just discovered the answer to this one: the Ambit comes with a cable, and that's the only way to transfer data from the watch. Question, though: How does the USB cable attach? It looks like it's more of a clip than a plug? Is there any danger of constant connection/disconnection damaging the watch, or of the port becoming loose? Does the charger use the same connection? And does the watch charge whilst connected to a reasonable USB port?
> 
> - Foot POD (old style). From what I've read, the food POD can be used for running cadence as well as FusedSpeed, which looks interesting. I have the feeling the old and new (smaller) foot PODs are electronically compatible, which should mean the Ambit can link to the old style foot POD...?
> 
> - Bike POD & cadence POD. As far as I know, these haven't been upgraded since I bought my Suunto kit, so they should be compatible?  (As an aside, I actually thought these were the same part, but apparently not: the bike POD comes with a handlebar holder for the watch. Maybe the actual PODs are the same, electronically, and it just matters whether you pair them as bike or cadence?)
> 
> Sorry, that's a lot of questions, but I'd really appreciate any advice anyone has to offer.
> 
> Thanks,
> Simon


 I have both bike parts, the cadence and bike pod work now. I doubt the old footpod will work but I have a memory belt and it works with the ambit so I suspect your older belt will work fine. I use a comfort dual belt and you can find those pretty cheap online. I think the Ambit is a better training watch and the fenix more of a handheld GPS in wrist watch format. So different folks will think one is better than the other.

The USB cable is much more solid than the T6 series and will not damage the watch. You can charge while exercising if necessary with any number of 5v portable USB chargers, solar or battery. I have a Solio and PowerMonkey, they both work.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> No, it is not out yet, but a little birdie told me Oct 18 and, what I said before is correct, I have been beta testing and it is one heckuva update. I will be canceling my Training Peaks subscription as rubiTrack 3 is better,especially for the training parameters. I think you will get a free upgrade or something since you purchased recently.


Cool. (oct 18) I had a feeling you were Beta testing. Yes, I double checked with Markus and the upgrade is free for me. Liking it so far!


----------



## _SBradley_

*Re: Sensor Queries*



bowesmana said:


> You can see a picture of the cable in pjc3's post here.


Thanks for the link!



bowesmana said:


> It doesn't currently support the foot pod, but there is a possibility that it will support the foot pod in the November firmware update.


That's interesting. Thanks!



martowl said:


> I have both bike parts, the cadence and bike pod work now. I doubt the old footpod will work...


Thanks for confirming that the bike & cadence PODs will work. Foot POD info confirmed, as above. In fact, I just found a Suunto video and discovered I was off the mark with FusedSpeed: that uses an accelerometer inside the watch. I assumed, when I read about it, they were talking about the foot POD.



> The USB cable is much more solid than the T6 series and will not damage the watch.


Good to know. Thanks!

EDIT: Just curious, is the top part of the clip soft/padded in some way, so as not to scratch the front of the watch? Also, I remember seeing a thread where several people were seeing some discolouration of the display in that area, and I wondered if it could have been due to the squeezing of this clip....


----------



## cobrapa

*Re: Sensor Queries*



_SBradley_ said:


> EDIT: Just curious, is the top part of the clip soft/padded in some way, so as not to scratch the front of the watch? Also, I remember seeing a thread where several people were seeing some discolouration of the display in that area, and I wondered if it could have been due to the squeezing of this clip....


Yes, it seems to be padded a little. Only leaves impressions in a screen protector, if you install one.

The screen discoloration is an acknowledged problem by Suunto with some of the screens, which they will replace on request.


----------



## _SBradley_

*Re: Sensor Queries*

Just thinking about the (current) lack of support for the foot POD. I assume this means that there's currently no way to record running cadence? This is something I'd dearly like to have. Assuming it's not currently possible with the Ambit, has there been any talk of support for this metric in the future? (Foot POD support was hinted at a few posts up.) Thanks!


----------



## pjc3

*Re: Sensor Queries*



_SBradley_ said:


> has there been any talk of support for this metric in the future? (Foot POD support was hinted at a few posts up.) Thanks!


Frum Suunto


> The next launch, planned for November, will offer users new training features such as interval timer and compatibility for both the Suunto Foot POD and ANT+ as well as the ability to download community-created features for even greater customization.


Doesn't specifically mention cadence but usually goes with foot pod data


----------



## andy c

*Re: Sensor Queries*

I'm sure it will do cadence. A lot of runners (inc me) have asked for it and it would make them happy.

The huge edge the Ambit over the Fenix (and it's massive) is as a training device. I use mine (almost) daily for running and cycling, the compass from time to time, but I've still to work out how the various waymarking stuff, etc works. Or even, given a decent field compass, a map and a few decades spent in the hills, when I would actually use them. I'm sure they'll be great though, when I get the time to play around ....


----------



## _SBradley_

*Re: Sensor Queries*

I had a dream last night that I had an Ambit. (I guess I was thinking about it _far_ too much yesterday!) But, when I looked down... it was a fēnix! I think the fēnix does have a few features where there's nothing comparable on the Ambit -- please correct me if I'm wrong!


Map display on screen. I mean an actual map, not just a track/route. e.g., I think I could upload contour maps of the UK from MapSource? AFAIK, the Ambit does not display maps at all?
Geocaching mode. I do a bit of geocaching, and this would be handy -- especially as it's "paperless geocaching" (meaning things like hints would be stored on the watch). I don't think Suunto has any interest in geocaching?
Ability to navigate a track (in general, or "trackback" specifically). I know the Ambit can navigate along preloaded routes, but I don't think it can navigate along tracks/trails?

I guess I'm still undecided... I much prefer the _look_ of the Ambit, though, and the screen is way nicer.


----------



## cobrapa

*Re: Sensor Queries*



_SBradley_ said:


> Map display on screen. I mean an actual map, not just a track/route. e.g., I think I could upload contour maps of the UK from MapSource? AFAIK, the Ambit does not display maps at all?


Wellll..... Yes and no. I think or_watching has had good success with simple contour and trail maps. I had some success with less detailed maps. But maps with more detail seem to either not work or be displayed so slow as to never show detail.

I would hesitate to say that MapSource maps will be usable on the fenix, unless you process them and remove detail to some level. I'm not sure anyone has done this yet, to figure out what detail is usable. (or maybe it is just buggy, since Garmin has not claimed this works.)


----------



## mnaranjo

And for the other two questions:

Geocaching: yes the fenix is superior, in the ambit only waypoints

Tracks: very similar. Both can actually manage tracks. Fenix ads the track back and the ambit superior screen and resolution


----------



## or_watching

cobrapa said:


> Wellll..... Yes and no. I think or_watching has had good success with simple contour and trail maps. I had some success with less detailed maps. But maps with more detail seem to either not work or be displayed so slow as to never show detail.
> 
> I would hesitate to say that MapSource maps will be usable on the fenix, unless you process them and remove detail to some level. I'm not sure anyone has done this yet, to figure out what detail is usable. (or maybe it is just buggy, since Garmin has not claimed this works.)


Yes a network of trails works for me, including 1000s of trails, covering two big states. In ~5MB. 
I'd gladly try the official Garmin 100k topo maps if someone bought me the DVD. 
gpsinformation.net's .info review said that worked too, but I dont know how much area can be installed.


----------



## dzelzcels

Hi guys! Did you read today on suunto site that the november Ambit update will most likely bring us ant+ temp sensor support? That sounds sweeet!


----------



## Joakim Agren

dzelzcels said:


> Hi guys! Did you read today on suunto site that the november Ambit update will most likely bring us ant+ temp sensor support? That sounds sweeet!


Where on Suuntos website have you read that?

The only thing I read with regards to Ant+ support is this statement by Suunto:

"*: Will the sw version 2.0 in November 2012 have ANT+ compatibility and is there going to be power presented in Ambit?*
A: ANT+ compatibility will be available in rel 2.0 for ANT+ compatible HR belts, Bike PODs, Cadence PODs (biking) and Foot PODs."

No mention of support for Garmins Tempe sensor nor any other temperature sensor.


----------



## _SBradley_

Joakim Agren said:


> "*: Will the sw version 2.0 in November 2012 have ANT+ compatibility and is there going to be power presented in Ambit?*
> A: ANT+ compatibility will be available in rel 2.0 for ANT+ compatible HR belts, Bike PODs, Cadence PODs (biking) and Foot PODs."


Am I right in thinking that the original Foot POD is not ANT+ (and is therefore unlikely to be supported in this update)?


----------



## cobrapa

_SBradley_ said:


> Am I right in thinking that the original Foot POD is not ANT+ (and is therefore unlikely to be supported in this update)?


Oddly, the wording on DCRainMakers site is different:



> In addition to the already existing training features - such as Peak Training Effect and Recovery time - the November 2012 software update brings new training features such as chrono, countdown timer, interval timer, ANT+ compatibility and Foot POD support.


This says Ant+ and Foot POD. So maybe it means the Suunto Foot pod, which is unsupported now, and then ANT+ devices as well. We'll have to see.


----------



## dzelzcels

Joakim Agren said:


> Where on Suuntos website have you read that?
> 
> The only thing I read with regards to Ant+ support is this statement by Suunto:
> 
> "*: Will the sw version 2.0 in November 2012 have ANT+ compatibility and is there going to be power presented in Ambit?*
> A: ANT+ compatibility will be available in rel 2.0 for ANT+ compatible HR belts, Bike PODs, Cadence PODs (biking) and Foot PODs."
> 
> No mention of support for Garmins Tempe sensor nor any other temperature sensor.


Its in the Q&A section: Suunto Suunto Ambit Black: questions, answers, how to, FAQs, tips, advice, answers, buying guide

"The November update will make the Suunto Ambit compatible with devices that use ANT+ signal. If the temperature sensor uses the ANT+, it will most likely be compatible with the Ambit."


----------



## or_watching

dzelzcels said:


> Its in the Q&A section: Suunto Suunto Ambit Black: questions, answers, how to, FAQs, tips, advice, answers, buying guide
> 
> "The November update will make the Suunto Ambit compatible with devices that use ANT+ signal. If the temperature sensor uses the ANT+, it will most likely be compatible with the Ambit."


Good eyes! 
Interesting prospect indeed.

It doesnt sound too authoritative though.

My nickel is on no external temp sensor support next month. 
I'm looking forward to it in any case.


----------



## bowesmana

A comparison by the Ultra 168 crowd *Garmin Fenix v Suunto Ambit*


----------



## Lost-again

bowesmana said:


> A comparison by the Ultra 168 crown *Garmin Fenix v Suunto Ambit*


Interesting to see that some still don't get the purpose of the internal temp sensor I.e. to adjust the pressure sensor map for temp, not to measure ambient! Although you can use it for ambient if you take it off your wrist for 20 min. Also that the Baro altitude is still widely missunderstood, the reason for the drift on his bike ride is almost certain to be weather change; the Ambit Baro is extremely accurate, I would trust it any day over the Garmin, weather changes accepted!


----------



## saridis

Lost-again said:


> Interesting to see that some still don't get the purpose of the internal temp sensor I.e. to adjust the pressure sensor map for temp, not to measure ambient! Although you can use it for ambient if you take it off your wrist for 20 min. Also that the Baro altitude is still widely missunderstood, the reason for the drift on his bike ride is almost certain to be weather change; the Ambit Baro is extremely accurate, I would trust it any day over the Garmin, weather changes accepted!


for what is worth, the internal temperature sensor works like a charm ONCE you start running!
after a couple of minutes of running is shows outside temperature pretty damn accurate.

perfect for me!

like you, i have also noticed that in the most ambit reviews/comparisons , they almost never mention Fusespeed and its awesome capabilities (measuring speed, distance when gps signal is lost or the fact that you can start your exercise before the satellite signal acquitition)


----------



## mnaranjo

Or that it makes the watch auto-turn off when it's not on your wrist


----------



## pjc3

saridis said:


> after a couple of minutes of running is shows outside temperature pretty damn accurate.


Definitely not the case in my experience.


----------



## cobrapa

pjc3 said:


> Definitely not the case in my experience.


Got to wear it outside your coat? :-!

It probably depends on the person as well, people certainly have different skin temp and running styles.


----------



## saridis

cobrapa said:


> Got to wear it outside your coat? :-!
> 
> It probably depends on the person as well, people certainly have different skin temp and running styles.


propably!

i wear my watch on my right hand and running for me is ussualy high speed interval running (between 2min/km and 3.40min/km)

therefore not sure how it performs in lower speeds.


----------



## pjc3

I would still want the Tempe support though. Not sure how they would implement it in Movescount. If the Tempe was paired it would write the data from that and use the case temperature only for altimeter/baro correction? I can see this will take a little bit of fiddling on Suunto's part so I am not very hopeful.


----------



## _SBradley_

I received an email today describing some new fitness features for the fēnix. Here's the link to the article:

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2012/11/new-fitness-features-available-for-garmin-fēnix-outdoor-watch.html


----------



## norytex

_SBradley_ said:


> I received an email today describing some new fitness features for the fēnix. Here's the link to the article:
> 
> http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2012/11/new-fitness-features-available-for-garmin-fēnix-outdoor-watch.html


I would like to use the Fenix as a bike computer for mountain biking. Since the atual speed readings from GPS are quite inaccurate and heavily fluctuating I would like to use an external speed sensor (and cadence sensor) and still have GPS on for track recording. Is this possible with the new firmware version? I know, that in the past you could use the cadence sensor but speed data were only provided by the GPS signal. For me correct speed readings are an important requirement.


----------



## andy c

Can't speak about the Fenix, but for the Ambit the speed readings using either GPS or the bike sensor are accurate.


----------



## martowl

norytex said:


> I would like to use the Fenix as a bike computer for mountain biking. Since the atual speed readings from GPS are quite inaccurate and heavily fluctuating I would like to use an external speed sensor (and cadence sensor) and still have GPS on for track recording. Is this possible with the new firmware version? I know, that in the past you could use the cadence sensor but speed data were only provided by the GPS signal. For me correct speed readings are an important requirement.


I'll second andy c, the bike and cadence sensor for the Ambit provide accurate data to the watch. If I elect to turn the GPS off, I still retain speed, distance and cadence data from the bike sensors plus HR and altitude. If the GPS is on I get the track as well.


----------



## norytex

Thanks for your answers. It seems that the Fenix does ignore the speed bike sensor and only uses GPS for speed data. Maybe I should buy the Ambit instead of the Fenix...


----------



## martowl

norytex said:


> Thanks for your answers. It seems that the Fenix does ignore the speed bike sensor and only uses GPS for speed data. Maybe I should buy the Ambit instead of the Fenix...


Difficult decision, I do not have a fenix but it is probably a better device for pure GPS. Importing and following tracks is better on the fenix. IMO the Ambit is a better training device and provides the best blend of training and GPS. I have used both Garmin Connect and Movescount and prefer Movescount. They are very different and if you have a lot of data in Garmin Connect you can import it from Movescount but it will require some effort as MC does not export the route with the training data. You might want to check out MC before you leap.


----------



## norytex

Martowl, thanks for your advice. Currently I'm using Sporttracks. I'll check Movescount too...


----------



## Sobul

norytex said:


> Martowl, thanks for your advice. Currently I'm using Sporttracks. I'll check Movescount too...


Try Neotrack too. See Tom Shane Today go out new release with huge improvment.


----------



## martowl

norytex said:


> Martowl, thanks for your advice. Currently I'm using Sporttracks. I'll check Movescount too...


Sure thing, I think you can import reasonably well into Sporttracks, from Movescount and Sobul below pointed out Neotrack, both are PC programs and I usually run native Mac programs. Don't want you unhappy if you purchase an Ambit, it is an expensive device, worth it IMO.


----------



## gatelli

My bad experience with AMBIT :
I ran last month a very important and difficult race (Grand Raid de la Réunion), 170Km and near 11000m+ climb, one of the most difficult race of the world, so I bought the AMBIT watch to have around 50h of autonomy. The result : the watch recorded the track during... 10 minutes, and then turned off !!! Despite of 100% battery charge. Leaving me running with a watch with blank screen, without any information of distance, altitude, or simple...time... It's totally unacceptable, this watch is UNRELIABLE compared to their advertisement (adventure, mountaineering etc....)
I bought this watch 10 days ago, it turned off by itself 4 or 5 times. The only way to wake it up is to PLUG IN : very interesting when you are running in mountains for 3 days in total autonomy !!!

I sent the watch to support, they didn't find anything and gave me back : when I received the watch it failed again ! 

If you need a reliable watch, don't buy it !

I returned to Garmin.....


----------



## Mystro

Wait a minute.....you bought the watch 10 days ago, had a problem, sent it to Suunto and it came back unfixed all in a 10day time period????? This sounds like the biggest bogus troll thread this forum has yet to receive (and that is saying a lot)......If what you are saying is actually true.....:-s. you would be THE only person to have this problem. :think:



gatelli said:


> My bad experience with AMBIT :
> I ran last month a very important and difficult race (Grand Raid de la Réunion), 170Km and near 11000m+ climb, one of the most difficult race of the world, so I bought the AMBIT watch to have around 50h of autonomy. The result : the watch recorded the track during... 10 minutes, and then turned off !!! Despite of 100% battery charge. Leaving me running with a watch with blank screen, without any information of distance, altitude, or simple...time... It's totally unacceptable, this watch is UNRELIABLE compared to their advertisement (adventure, mountaineering etc....)
> I bought this watch 10 days ago, it turned off by itself 4 or 5 times. The only way to wake it up is to PLUG IN : very interesting when you are running in mountains for 3 days in total autonomy !!!
> 
> I sent the watch to support, they didn't find anything and gave me back : when I received the watch it failed again !
> 
> If you need a reliable watch, don't buy it !
> 
> I returned to Garmin.....


----------



## kindofblack

Mystro said:


> Wait a minute.....you bought the watch 10 days ago, had a problem, sent it to Suunto and it came back unfixed all in a 10day time period????? This sounds like the biggest bogus troll thread this forum has yet to receive (and that is saying a lot)......If what you are saying is actually true.....:-s. you would be THE only person to have this problem. :think:


From what I understand, he bought the watch 10 days before the race. But he probably sent it back the watch to Suunto after the race.

I would also say that getting the watch only 10 days before the GRR was probably a bit too short in order to fully test it and get used to it. These watches are like computers now ! (but usually without a friendly UI)

By the way a friend of mine achieve the last edition of this race and it's something absolutely crazy, congratulations !


----------



## gatelli

You're right I wrote this post based on a mail I sent to custom support.. You should read "30 days" as they kept my watch 7 days + 4 days trip go&back. And if I'm THE only person with this problem, it's one too many, and they should replace the unit...
They just waited the problem occurs in their service center (it didn't) and sent me back without any further research. Now I have to send it again to suunto support !!!


----------



## andy c

That sounds like bad luck indeed, although for an event that important I'd tend to use tried and tested kit.

Not quite 30 days, since that would have been before the race ;-)


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## gatelli

of course I tried it. I had the problem several times. Wrote to support who told me to force update, what I did. The problem is not the race as without the watch I couldn't have more than 15 hours of data (unless I bought the garmin fenix  )
The problem is : with a 450€ watch and with such advertisement (adventure, mountaineering watch etc...) you cannot have such type of failure. I can understand the software or I don't know have some trouble but if you CANNOT SWITCH ON your watch unless you PLUG IT IN, it's a pain ! None of the button worked. You cannot turn on your watch until you're back home... It's a real trouble for multi-days activity. For that, I can't trust this equipment.


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## cobrapa

They really should replace, as it seems you got a bad unit. That is not the normal behavior of the Ambit.


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## martowl

gatelli said:


> My bad experience with AMBIT :
> I ran last month a very important and difficult race (Grand Raid de la Réunion), 170Km and near 11000m+ climb, one of the most difficult race of the world, so I bought the AMBIT watch to have around 50h of autonomy. The result : the watch recorded the track during... 10 minutes, and then turned off !!! Despite of 100% battery charge. Leaving me running with a watch with blank screen, without any information of distance, altitude, or simple...time... It's totally unacceptable, this watch is UNRELIABLE compared to their advertisement (adventure, mountaineering etc....)
> I bought this watch 10 days ago, it turned off by itself 4 or 5 times. The only way to wake it up is to PLUG IN : very interesting when you are running in mountains for 3 days in total autonomy !!!
> 
> I sent the watch to support, they didn't find anything and gave me back : when I received the watch it failed again !
> 
> If you need a reliable watch, don't buy it !
> 
> I returned to Garmin.....


Too bad, I used mine in a 100 mile (161 km) with 7000 m elevation gain and loss but I ended up a DNF. However at ~65 mi ~100 km on the 60 sec GPS fix I would have had plenty of battery left to finish. There is certainly something wrong with your unit. I typically use mine at 1 sec intervals and get 15h of battery life from that. It is good for about any 100 km race but anything longer I have to use the 60 sec recording option.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

1) .... happens.
2) Seriously? Someone who runs a Raid does so with equipment only just bought?
3) A purchase, a 3-day race, further use/problems, and a check of the watch by support, are all supposed to have taken place within 10 days?


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## gatelli

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> 1) .... happens.
> 2) Seriously? Someone who runs a Raid does so with equipment only just bought?
> 3) A purchase, a 3-day race, further use/problems, and a check of the watch by support, are all supposed to have taken place within 10 days?


 As explained, it's within 30 days not 10. My mistake, sorry about that, it was a copy/paste from a mail I sent to suunto. Don't put in doubt my word, are you working for suunto or what ?
The problem happened, the fact is my Ambit unit is turning off without any reason. My watch IS still unreliable despite of a week in Suunto support service. I wait the next failure to send it again to suunto, in OFF mode, and I'll copy here their conclusion. For the time being they didn't make any troubleshooting, that is what bothers me.


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## or_watching

gatelli said:


> The problem happened. My watch IS still unreliable despite of a week in Suunto support service..


Bummer. $500 bummer.

Just like anything, inconsistency is bad.

Does the problem ever happen when the watch is still? Or so far only when you are wearing it and moving? Might be helpful for them to recreate/debug it if possible - to know if you think a mechanical element is involved.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

gatelli said:


> As explained, it's within 30 days not 10. ... For the time being they didn't make any troubleshooting, that is what bothers me.


Gotcha. Did it go to Suunto HQ (Finland) for the service? (Yes, it sounds like a good idea to send it in in an "off" state. I think it happened to me once that I sent something for service and they didn't find a/the problem I thought there was... No, I don't work for Suunto, but I have used their products for a long time, sometimes got a chance to test/beta-test new products, and always found either the products reliable or the service responsive.)


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## cobrapa

Hmm, I wonder if this watch has an accelerometer failure. The watch will sleep if it does not sense movement. If the sensor is not working, then it will probably sleep within 10-30 min and not wake up. I think it only wakes up when it senses motion as well, so it might be impossible to wake without plugging it in as you describe. This should be easy to reproduce. Just leave sitting on a table somewhere until the screen goes blank (power save sleep) then pick up the watch and see if screen recovers. If not, the motion sensor must not be working.

Suunto should be able to reproduce it the same way... sad they did not.


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## pjc3

I'm pretty sure it normally doesn't do to sleep whilst logging an activity (as per the OP's original failure)?


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## gatelli

cobrapa said:


> I wonder if this watch has an accelerometer failure.


Well the first time I thought it was a problem like that. But the sleep mode is working well, the watch awakes when moved. The turning off problem can occur while saving an activity (so out of sleep mode), or not... Well the only thing to do now is to wait the next failure and send it back to Suunto support. I'll keep you informed..


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## cobrapa

gatelli said:


> Well the first time I thought it was a problem like that. But the sleep mode is working well, the watch awakes when moved. The turning off problem can occur while saving an activity (so out of sleep mode), or not... Well the only thing to do now is to wait the next failure and send it back to Suunto support. I'll keep you informed..


Ah, ok. Sounds like it really has a hardware problem.


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## yesdog

Why don't you return it and buy a different one?


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## scandium21

I was thinking the same thing, suggesting just returning it to your authorized Suunto dealer. Bring your receipt, and exchange it for a new one. Sounds like a dud.


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## gatelli

Well, my watch failed again, 3 days after my last post. I sent it to Suunto support. They kept it 7 days, and provided me a new unit, without a word of explanation : I think it was a hard failure and they replaced it. I hope all is going well now.
Suunto support is not so good, I had to send my watch twice before replacement.
Suunto commercial is poor, I didn't have any "sorry" message. (and I paid 16$ x2 for shipping, they refused to pay it.)

Except if the Ambit watch would be exceptional in my future adventure running, i could certainly go back to Garmin !

We'll see.....


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## Guest

gatelli said:


> they refused to pay it


why? feel free to answer.


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## gatelli

They explained it's due to DHL, a pick up tax when they take your watch at home. I said 16$ but it's 16€ (total damage 32€).


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## Guest

gatelli said:


> a pick up tax when they take your watch *at home*


ah ok, that explains all


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