# Any opinions on the Zenith Defy El Primero 21?



## digikam

This is the model DEFY El Primero 21 44 mm - 95.9000.9004/78.R582

My AD is offering this piece to me at a great price. It's a new movement so am reluctant to make the plunge, looks great and the chrono is just bonkers when it gets going

Thoughts on the looks, movement and would you buy it?


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## EnderW

my 2c...

Watch movement is pretty amazing. The high-beat sweep is beautiful.
Design is modern and fresh, but does not look hubot-esque (not too much at least). I think it's pretty awesome looking

Movt is relatively new and unproven - so there is that. At the same time - Zenith brand is strong, and LVMH umbrella should provide servicing should it be needed 10-20 years down the road.

I thought the watch was very impressive and a serious contender in a crowded chronograph space.


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## RolexDeals

Been wearing mine for over a month straight now. Absolutely amazing; best watch I've ever owned.

I have a 7 inch wrist and the lugs aren't even near to extending out. The polished and brushed titanium looks amazing.

The depth of the movement catches my eye every time. I'm used to wearing a Rolex, but this watch is truly remarkable. The two balance wheels, star shaped escapement, polished hands and hour markers- everything about it makes you look for an extra second or two and say "wow."

I run the chrono multiple times a day every day and no issues so far.

I'm not one for leather bands but this one works; it looks awesome and brings the whole look together.

My only complaint is the clasp. Just doesn't feel great; I might swap is for the titanium bracelet.

Let me know if you want any more details.









Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## design-of-the-times

Hard to say anything bad about Zenith. Love my Annual Calendar. Go for it.


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## amgbda

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gfwl9p86t4ja7c0/AABLIr6U6sTmmHfy3d8H6eWba?dl=0[/video]










Apart from the fact that it's very hard to read the dial the watch is quite a production. It's extremely light weight and easy to wear. An interesting addition it if you have quite an extensive collection but don't think it would be practical if you're looking for something for frequent use.

The link above is a slo-mo video which shows the chronograph movement in action. You can measure the frequency of the 5Hz main movement by watching the hairspring

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## 92hatchattack

Amazing movement! So much bang for the buck. Watching the chrono escapement is mesmerizing!


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## WristWretch

Definitely a lot of look! I am a very happy Zenith owner but this skeletonized face is just to busy for me. The Defy with the closed dial on the bracelet really has my interest. This one not so much. But hey, if you love the style and the size, it sure is some amazing technology to have on your wrist! Be bold — go for it!


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## digikam

Right, update...

I've been haggling with my AD as I normally do. I managed to get the price down to 6,800 GBP from 9100 GBP. Good deal?


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## RolexDeals

With a bracelet that is a great price. 

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## digikam

RolexDeals said:


> With a bracelet that is a great price.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


non-bracelet


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## jermyzy

I like it! Unfortunately too big for my skinny wrists so I'm going for the Zenith Defy elite openworked.


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## Brisman

Fantastic watch, stunning to look at, I went with the Blue.


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## Brisman




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## espiga

RolexDeals said:


> Been wearing mine for over a month straight now. Absolutely amazing; best watch I've ever owned.
> 
> I have a 7 inch wrist and the lugs aren't even near to extending out. The polished and brushed titanium looks amazing.
> 
> The depth of the movement catches my eye every time. I'm used to wearing a Rolex, but this watch is truly remarkable. The two balance wheels, star shaped escapement, polished hands and hour markers- everything about it makes you look for an extra second or two and say "wow."
> 
> I run the chrono multiple times a day every day and no issues so far.
> 
> I'm not one for leather bands but this one works; it looks awesome and brings the whole look together.
> 
> My only complaint is the clasp. Just doesn't feel great; I might swap is for the titanium bracelet.
> 
> Let me know if you want any more details.
> 
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> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Hi RolexDeals,

Yes, please more details like time keeping; is easy to read the seconds on that section from 40 to 55 seconds... more pictures also!
Truly remarkable watch... 1/100s on the wrist... wow!

Best regards.


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## digikam

Right update... 

I made the plunge and got it for a great price. Negotiated 30% off retail. On my way home now with the tank size box. I’ll share pictures tomorrow or maybe this evening.


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## Dufresne

I’m usually pretty conservative in terms of watches, but I love that thing. Fantastic pick up! Need more pics!


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## dantan

I like the bracelet non-skeletonised version!


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## digikam

Enjoy!


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## dantan

Huge congratulations on your stunning new Zenith, and wear it in great health!


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## Ray916MN

Neat looking watch. Hard to be impressed by the movement since TAG introduced the Mikrotimer, a watch with the same architecture in 2011 and started selling the Mikrograph which also has the same movement architecture as this in 2016. Unfortunately under LVMH, Zenith plays second fiddle to TAG...


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## digikam

Ray916MN said:


> Neat looking watch. Hard to be impressed by the movement since TAG introduced the Mikrotimer, a watch with the same architecture in 2011 and started selling the Mikrograph which also has the same movement architecture as this in 2016. Unfortunately under LVMH, Zenith plays second fiddle to TAG...


Same tech yes but totally different movements. I wouldn't say Zenith is playing second fiddle as they'll likely innovate more going forwards, just look at the new Defy lab models and their groundbreaking oscillator movements.

Zenith has history and is widely respected (but underestimated) and I think Mr. Biver will show the respect this brand deserves and take it to the next level.

By the way, the tag mikrograph which you mentioned retails for $21000 (earlier model $51000) and this Zenith piece which does the same thing cost $9000, a lot of bang for the buck.


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## NM-1

This is gorgeous. I've been looking at the non skeleton version in silver/blue. Love to get a rubber strap with pin buckle.


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## Zama

Ray916MN said:


> Neat looking watch. Hard to be impressed by the movement since TAG introduced the Mikrotimer, a watch with the same architecture in 2011 and started selling the Mikrograph which also has the same movement architecture as this in 2016. Unfortunately under LVMH, Zenith plays second fiddle to TAG...


So, there's actually been a few interviews with the designers of the two movements where they were asked if the Zenith movement is based on the TAG. They said no - the zenith is a totally new movement from the ground up. It was just made by the same engineering team, with lessons learned from the TAG movement.


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## ericfeuer

digikam said:


> Enjoy!
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Your box is different than mine. Also the watch itself sat in another cool box that folds into itself forming a travel case. Weird. Love the watch!!! Only had mine 2 days.









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## ericfeuer

Blue looks great.


Brisman said:


>


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## michael8238

I really like the watch. It's def more attractive than any Hublot.
If the price is good, I won't mind adding one to my collection.


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## digikam

ericfeuer said:


> Your box is different than mine. Also the watch itself sat in another cool box that folds into itself forming a travel case. Weird. Love the watch!!! Only had mine 2 days.
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> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Very interesting! Might be a country specific thing from Zenith? I'm from the UK


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## Zama

digikam said:


> Very interesting! Might be a country specific thing from Zenith? I'm from the UK


My watch came in the same case as yours - with the tray that folds out at the bottom. Useful to keep pens in. I'm from the US.


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## georges zaslavsky

Not for me but I would rather have this


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## RolexDeals

Might be selling mine shortly due to a "new financial situation," if anyone is interested.









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## Zama

Good news, the more I wear it the more comfortable it gets. Guess the strap just needed to break in.


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## ericfeuer

Watch is spectacular, clasp sucks and is supremely uncomfortable....swapped to a better strap choice.










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## Tomatoes11

Brisman said:


> Fantastic watch, stunning to look at, I went with the Blue.


How is the blue rubber strap and deployant clasp? I am considering getting them because I just prefer straps over bracelets but it's been getting some bad comments on these forums. Does the clasp dig into your wrists at all?


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## ericfeuer

Tomatoes11 said:


> How is the blue rubber strap and deployant clasp? I am considering getting them because I just prefer straps over bracelets but it's been getting some bad comments on these forums. Does the clasp dig into your wrists at all?


Completely uncomfortable on mine. I have a smaller wrist. Not sure if that's why.

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## RolexDeals

It is uncomfortable, but no so much to not buy it.

Here is something that worked for me- I reversed the strap. I had been wearing it a notch looser, but doing this fit my wrist much better and allowed me to tighten it again.

Try it!









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## Zama

Well, ended up returning the watch. I went through two Defy el primero 21s - both examples I had had an issue where the hand on the seconds subdial was scraping paint off of the tick marks. In both cases the problem appeared within a week of ownership. Also have seen a few pictures floating around the internet of watches with the same issue, but perhaps unnoticed by the owner.

Fantastic watch otherwise, but given I was 0 for 2, I'm unwilling to "try again" with another one.

Have a JLC master geographic coming instead. Hats off to the dealer for not making me sit through the warranty process and exchanging without issue.


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## ericfeuer

Zama said:


> Well, ended up returning the watch. I went through two Defy el primero 21s - both examples I had had an issue where the hand on the seconds subdial was scraping paint off of the tick marks. In both cases the problem appeared within a week of ownership. Also have seen a few pictures floating around the internet of watches with the same issue, but perhaps unnoticed by the owner.
> 
> Fantastic watch otherwise, but given I was 0 for 2, I'm unwilling to "try again" with another one.
> 
> Have a JLC master geographic coming instead. Hats off to the dealer for not making me sit through the warranty process and exchanging without issue.


Wow really, id love to see pics of that, do you have any????? This way ill check mine too.


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## Hartmut Richter

Hmmmm - that sounds odd. As if they tried to make the watch a little too slim, thereby placing the hand too close to the subdial. But in that case, I'd expect the same to happen on the minute subdial. I wonder whether the same thing happens with the TAG Heuer Cal. 360.....

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, even though it's negative. It is better to know both the good as well as the bad so that one can improve. And I am sure that Zenith monitor watch fora such as this one. Good luck with the JLC - another brand I personally think highly of.

Hartmut Richter


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## Zama

ericfeuer said:


> Wow really, id love to see pics of that, do you have any????? This way ill check mine too.


Sure, yep. Here is one of the photos from one of the watches









Let me know if you can't see it and I will try a different attach method. I know WUS has some difficulties displaying images lately.


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## ericfeuer

wow yep i see it, damn.....


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## Zama

ericfeuer said:


> wow yep i see it, damn.....


Hopefully your watch is not affected. In one watch, the issue showed up after just a few days. In another, it took a week or two.


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## ericfeuer

Zama said:


> Hopefully your watch is not affected. In one watch, the issue showed up after just a few days. In another, it took a week or two.


Well im gonna run the hell out of chrono to see if it shows up....so far i don't see it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/F...Jw3WQvsSxjgIDeUoh0gK6SFu7DtcIIL=w1730-h973-no


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## Zama

ericfeuer said:


> Well im gonna run the hell out of chrono to see if it shows up....so far i don't see it.
> 
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/F...Jw3WQvsSxjgIDeUoh0gK6SFu7DtcIIL=w1730-h973-no


My guess is it has something to do with the speed at which the mechanism resets. On my recent example, the paint got knocked off around the 50 minute mark after a week or two. I assume that I had just never reset the chrono where it had to zip past that part of the subdial before, if that makes sense. So I'd try to reset the chrono with the second hand in different places on the subdial just to be safe.


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## ericfeuer

only issue ive noticed is that if you dont hit the reset button straight on, sometimes the hands won't reset properly. My AD said he spoke to Zenith technical and because it’s 1/100th it needs to hit right in middle to guarantee reset. Not defective


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## Zama

ericfeuer said:


> only issue ive noticed is that if you dont hit the reset button straight on, sometimes the hands won't reset properly. My AD said he spoke to Zenith technical and because it's 1/100th it needs to hit right in middle to guarantee reset. Not defective


Never had that with mine. Mine reset dead on every time.


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## jermyzy

I really like the look of this watch, but 44mm is too big for my small wrists. I hope your dealer brought up the paint issue with Zenith so they can rectify it. If they ever make it a slightly smaller size (<42mm) I'd like to get one!


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## WTSP

I finally got the chance to try on the Defy 21 for the first time this week while travelling. It’s certainly impressive. I really like the sound the movement makes when activated. It’s fascinating to be able to see all the components. It’s definitely a contender in the higher end chronograph space, as EnderW has pointed out. 

In the end I don’t think it’s something I will be adding to my collection though. The price is the biggest barrier of course. But other than that I still prefer the original El Primero. I’m kind of a fetishist as far the feel of the chronograph pushers go, and the original EP is best in class. The 21 feels more like a Valjoux, with softer springs and the activation happening at the bottom of the push rather than at the top. I love the EP 400 because it’s exactly the opposite. I also think that the column wheel and clutch mechanism integrated with the main drive train on traditional chronographs is actually more complex and impressive than the separate drive train and balance wheel blacking mechanism on the 21, which is more similar to the standard hacking mechanism on most wristwatches. Also the case is a little large for my taste.

I have to say that I’m a bit relieved as I’m not looking to shell out five figures on a new watch at this time. Still, it beats most watches in its class, like Hublot’s chronos or the AP Royal Oak Offshore.


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## RolexDeals

Dealers almost always offer good discounts. I've never heard of anyone actually paying msrp for one. Used they are selling between $7.5k and $9k. 

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## Horoloaddict

As a new owner I found the hand legibility far better on the blue skeletonized version. Definitely worth comparing side by side at an AD if chance arises. Cheers.


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## gossler

I had a chance to try one out two days ago in Cancun Mexico impressive watch... it was to big for my wrist too, and I do have other 44mm watches. I tried a Rolex Explorer II also, found it wears surprisingly big for a 42mm.

I was not planning on buying anything that day, but then my wife suggested I should! I Ended up buying a 42mm Chronomaster Open 1969. 

MY first Zenith, but not my first El Primero ( Tag Heuer Calibre 36 Carrera Flyback).


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## almeladze

Zenith plays 2nd fiddle to Hublot (UNFORTUNATELY). Tag is under Zenith...



Ray916MN said:


> Neat looking watch. Hard to be impressed by the movement since TAG introduced the Mikrotimer, a watch with the same architecture in 2011 and started selling the Mikrograph which also has the same movement architecture as this in 2016. Unfortunately under LVMH, Zenith plays second fiddle to TAG...


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## almeladze

Having read some of the posts below, I cant NOT comment. First of all, congratulations! It seems that ADs want to sell this watch at a premium, citing all kinds of shortage of supply (which I actually do not believe!). So congrads on squeezing your AD. Lett than 30%, I dont buy any of my watches... Maybe that's why I still havent moved on this piece. Second, I actually have been watching/waiting for the watch to come out for about a year (ever since it was announced) as I had been dying to get a skeleton watch that's reasonably priced and is not a Chronoswiss. At the time everybody was trashing it as a hideous piece put out by JCB as a marketing tool and I really didnt understand why! Glad to see that finally some folks started seeing its charm (and technical achievement - 1/100th of a second!).

HOWEVER, while I loved the photos of the timepiece (and legibility is not an issue for me but a short chrono actually is), I really was underwhelmed when I saw the watch live (both black and titanium versions). It simply didnt not pop. To me it didnt have the wow effect live nearly to the extent it did on the photos. It just didnt shine and sparkle, especially the inner workings of it. I felt like it needed a little more polish. I kept telling my dealers that I kind of like it but dont like it for $10K. Comparing to some higher priced skeletons it seemed a little dull (on the inside). I do like all 3 bracelet options and the case for sure though. SO, I wandered away from this piece to Pilot Doublematic, then a regular el primero which has that same el primero movement (albeit not as sophisticated - some versions can do 1/10th of a second) but is substantially cheaper. Maybe it's envy speaking in me mate, but a kind envy  Again, use it in good health and do tell us what else you own.

Question - why did you pick up the titanium version as opposed to the all back piece, just curious. And two, they write a lot that el promeros require more frequent servicing than regular mechanisms due to the high beat nature of the engine. I wonder how it will last in the coming years.



digikam said:


> This is the model DEFY El Primero 21 44.mm - 95.9000.9004/78.R582
> 
> My AD is offering this piece to me at a great price. It's a new movement so am reluctant to make the plunge, looks great and the chrono is just bonkers when it gets going
> 
> Thoughts on the looks, movement and would you buy it?


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## almeladze

Considered it. Not the same watch b/c it's got elite as opposed to el primero 



jermyzy said:


> I like it! Unfortunately too big for my skinny wrists so I'm going for the Zenith Defy elite openworked.


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## almeladze

Blue would be my choice as well if i decide to pull the trigger on it.



Brisman said:


> Fantastic watch, stunning to look at, I went with the Blue.


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## almeladze

Biver is babing his Hublot which makes me want to vomit... Zenith over both Tag and Hublot. I am REALLY GLAD Zenith finally started making decent looking watches. They used to be sooo ugly even el promero wouldnt sway me into buying them. Now I proudly own their pilot type 20 GMT



digikam said:


> Same tech yes but totally different movements. I wouldn't say Zenith is playing second fiddle as they'll likely innovate more going forwards, just look at the new Defy lab models and their groundbreaking oscillator movements.
> 
> Zenith has history and is widely respected (but underestimated) and I think Mr. Biver will show the respect this brand deserves and take it to the next level.
> 
> By the way, the tag mikrograph which you mentioned retails for $21000 (earlier model $51000) and this Zenith piece which does the same thing cost $9000, a lot of bang for the buck.


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## almeladze

Bravo! Hublot blows LOL



michael8238 said:


> I really like the watch. It's def more attractive than any Hublot.
> If the price is good, I won't mind adding one to my collection.


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## almeladze

Do you still have it? Or did it go already?



RolexDeals said:


> Might be selling mine shortly due to a "new financial situation," if anyone is interested.
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> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## almeladze

Thanks for sharing this! Definitely something to consider. come to think of it, my Pilot type 20 gmt also had an issue within 3 months of purchase. I had to send it for service (twice, because 1st time they returned it with greasy finger prints on the inside of the sapphire crystal). JLC is a different level company with a different class and quality. I own one (didnt have $$ for Geographic at the time  so purchased hometime instead) since 2005 and it's my baby!

Please do share how do you enjoy the JLC. Although it's conceptually a different watch than this el primero 21.



Zama said:


> Well, ended up returning the watch. I went through two Defy el primero 21s - both examples I had had an issue where the hand on the seconds subdial was scraping paint off of the tick marks. In both cases the problem appeared within a week of ownership. Also have seen a few pictures floating around the internet of watches with the same issue, but perhaps unnoticed by the owner.
> 
> Fantastic watch otherwise, but given I was 0 for 2, I'm unwilling to "try again" with another one.
> 
> Have a JLC master geographic coming instead. Hats off to the dealer for not making me sit through the warranty process and exchanging without issue.


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## TAG Fan

Can the owners of this timepiece provide further insight about their views on it? Considering one at this stage only


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## carlhaluss

Really does seem like an amazing watch. Now that I am finally learning more about the amazing movement. (I'm a very slow learner :-s). Interesting comments, though, especially about the performance of the pushers in relation to the regular El Primero.

The other day, while at my AD, I was looking at the Defy Classic, as I wanted to see how the bracelet is, as opposed to the leather or rubber straps. I found the titanium bracelet absolutely outstanding, to the point that if I do get the El Primero 21, it will definitely be with bracelet. The smoothness (like a string of pearls), craftsmanship, and comfort are all amazing. Just wondering if anyone has their Defy El Primero 21 on the bracelet? I was rather surprised to read the comments about the clasp on the leather strap.

Anyway, I am going back to my AD this week and take another look.

Cheers,
Carl


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## Lo0o0o0n

i currently own the blue dial on a titanium bracelet. i must say the titanium bracelet is awesome (scratches pretty easily so u gotta be careful with that).

i do not have a particularly large wrist but somehow it weirdly wears smaller on the bracelet i feel as the rubber straps flares out at the ends while the bracelet pulls straight down. it's light, comfortable and legibility is not an issue on the blue dial at least.

the dial only pops when it is looked at at an angle. straight on i do agree with some posts saying it is kinda flat which it is. however, i still get impressed with its depth when looked at an angle!


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## carlhaluss

Well, after reading this thread yesterday, I had to stop at the AD and see if there was one in stock to try. i was not disappointed. This watch is a beauty, and one of the most impressive things to me, apart from the amazing movement, is the outstanding bracelet. Comfort, craftsmanship and super flexibility make it easily one of the most impressive bracelets I have seen. I am going to wait until Zenith announces what they will do for El Primero 50th, likely at Basel 2019, before I make any plans to purchase. But his model really impressed me:







For a 44mm watch, it is surprisingly well fitting. I will go back and try it again, but so far there is really nothing I can fault. The angular case, especially where the lugs meet the strap looks amazing.

Cheers,
Carl


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## RolexDeals

Size comparison. Yes, the diameter is clearly bigger than the 42mm explorer, but look where the lugs end. Very similar.









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## alexisvas

I am very interested in buying this watch but some questions are puzzling me.
1) How easily titanium scratches? Any feedback and photos from owners?
2) Can we swap between straps and bracelets? I think that the leather straps has a different end than the bracelet? Do they use end links? Anybody knows for sure?
3) I am also thinking of ceramic but I am sooooooo afraid of it. I have already broken a ceramic bezel of an IWC Ingenieur and the repair was frustratingly expensive. Any feedback from owners?
Thank you


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## almeladze

The Rolex looks horrible... LOL



RolexDeals said:


> Size comparison. Yes, the diameter is clearly bigger than the 42mm explorer, but look where the lugs end. Very similar.
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> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## merfury1989

Like everything about that Zenith, apart from the fact that the name and logo is printed on the glass, rather than on the movement/dial


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## stockae92

I saw the Zenith Defy EP 21 at the AD. Its the model on Ti bracelet. Sadly, it looks absolutely massive. Even the EP 42mm looks big on my wrist. That speaks volume about my wrist size. LOL


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## icedude

I've got the blue version with rubber strap. 
While shopping around for a leather/croc aftermarket strap, I noticed that there is a tapered pattern at the lug area. Its like a step so that the strap fit nicely.
A normal strap will look weird and small as it does not have the step to cover the huge case.
Anyone has idea where to find such aftermarket strap?


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## sjo1988

i dont love skeletonized watches, but i think they did a good job with this one


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## amg786

digikam said:


> Right, update...
> 
> I've been haggling with my AD as I normally do. I managed to get the price down to 6,800 GBP from 9100 GBP. Good deal?


That's an excellent price. 
It can dwarf wrists- mine aren't the biggest.
Bracelet is amazing quality with some great angles to it and the casework that really plays well with the light.
At times it can be illegible due to skeletonized nature of the piece.
I wonder how many ppl will sell/trade before a device is due? The bill must be eye watering 








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## GreatLakesWatch

I saw this version in the flesh at a Redbar event yesterday and really liked it. The dial almost had a champagne tone to it, and watching the sweeping chronograph seconds hand was mesmerizing. At the end of the day though, I still want the Defy Classic in the blue dial and on the titanium bracelet.


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## lsberrios1

ericfeuer said:


> Watch is spectacular, clasp sucks and is supremely uncomfortable....swapped to a better strap choice.
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> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


That's a cool strap. I got my Defy 21 yesterday and the thing is gorgeous! Love playing with the chrono and looking at all the parts move. Fun,fun watch.

Where did you get that strap? The AD said that the rubber/leather strap would become more pliable with time but a regular leather strap might be nice to have and I don't see the clasp getting any softer. I also have a rubber strap coming. I wonder how that one would compare to the leather/rubber backed one.

I am also having issues with the seconds sub dial not re-setting properly. It's happened several times. Anybody had anymore issues lately with that? If so, what did you end up doing?

Thanks! First time posting here .


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## ericfeuer

lsberrios1 said:


> That's a cool strap. I got my Defy 21 yesterday and the thing is gorgeous! Love playing with the chrono and looking at all the parts move. Fun,fun watch.
> 
> Where did you get that strap? The AD said that the rubber/leather strap would become more pliable with time but a regular leather strap might be nice to have and I don't see the clasp getting any softer. I also have a rubber strap coming. I wonder how that one would compare to the leather/rubber backed one.
> 
> I am also having issues with the seconds sub dial not re-setting properly. It's happened several times. Anybody had anymore issues lately with that? If so, what did you end up doing?
> 
> Thanks! First time posting here .


Congrats. It's not the strap that sucks, it's the clasp IMO. Uncomfortable as hell and digs into my wrist. The one in my pic is a 23mm drunk art strap. Super soft. I've had the issue with the watch not resetting a few times also and it seems like it happens if you don't hit the reset button dead square on.

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## lsberrios1

Pic of the chrono seconds dial not re-setting. I had to push it 2 or 3 times in one instance to get it back to zero.


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## lsberrios1

ericfeuer said:


> Congrats. It's not the strap that sucks, it's the clasp IMO. Uncomfortable as hell and digs into my wrist. The one in my pic is a 23mm drunk art strap. Super soft. I've had the issue with the watch not resetting a few times also and it seems like it happens if you don't hit the reset button dead square on.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Thank you for the quick reply. I will ask the AD about the sub second hand issue. That seems like a design flaw to me, doesn't it? Somewhere I read that they ditched the column wheel for a 3 cam lever system. Could this be the result? It is the smoothest chrono action i've ever pushed but that issue is definitely a turn off!


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## leohdo

Do this one have the flyback second function? And can we hand-winding and add more power to the chronograph when it is working? 

Thank you


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## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! No, I'm afraid that this watch (nor so far any version of the Cal. 21) has a flyback function. As for the winding, I am not sure whether it has a separate mainspring for the chronograph but, if not, there is no earthly point in winding more when the mainspring is fully wound.

Hartmut Richter


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## TAG Fan

You can wind the chronograph mechanism if you need to but the power reserver indicator should act as your guide if you need to wind or not


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## Nathan356

My recollection is that the chrono has a separate mainspring and you can wind it while it is running. You wind one direction for the time function and wind the other direction for the chrono function. The power reserve indicates for the chrono.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## leohdo

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to Watchuseek! No, I'm afraid that this watch (nor so far any version of the Cal. 21) has a flyback function. As for the winding, I am not sure whether it has a separate mainspring for the chronograph but, if not, there is no earthly point in winding more when the mainspring is fully wound.
> 
> Hartmut Richter





TAG Fan said:


> You can wind the chronograph mechanism if you need to but the power reserver indicator should act as your guide if you need to wind or not





Nathan356 said:


> My recollection is that the chrono has a separate mainspring and you can wind it while it is running. You wind one direction for the time function and wind the other direction for the chrono function. The power reserve indicates for the chrono.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you a lot for your response. i just decided to get one. Just love it ?


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## clatong

Great purchase!


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## Artemtoday

Hello there,

Sorry for my english, I'm from banana republic (Ukraine)
Bought blue ones with titanium bracelet in US

First was grate, movement is grate, dial in blue looks readable and nice (gray version really has some problems with time reading, blue has contrast to hands)

But I had a serious problem with the bracelet after just 1 week of wearing. The bracelet got uneven gaps between links (see photo attached). I don't dive, don't do sports and don't even sleep in my watch. After I was given a hug to my friend and bracelet unlinked at 2nd link....wtf? UA service refused coz I bought them not in Ukraine...so no international warranty....I send them to Moscow and got response: mechanical damage....I'm sorry but how can TITANIUM bracelet got damaged without scratching my skin or any discomfort???

After that I had to buy conversion 1st link for putting a strap for another 600usd.....

Any advice highly appreciated























And now I wear it with NATO strap and fight with service (new bracelet approx. 3k USD...and the durability issue won't be fixed with new one.










So my advice, don't buy bracelet version....

P.S. I have a small collection of watches (Casio, Seiko, Oris, Edox, Tudor and another Zenith....most on bracelet....except Zenith El primero...first time ever happened to me)


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## ericfeuer

That's so weird about the bracelet. Did the screws get bent inside the link? 

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk


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## Artemtoday

ericfeuer said:


> That's so weird about the bracelet. Did the screws get bent inside the link?
> 
> Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk


I hope so....

They just returned me the watch, the bracelet is still there.

I was suggested to fix just one broken link for 1.5k....when the whole bracelet is 3k....and does it solve the problem with poor "springbars" inside the links....others will fail...

I have to get official denial of service....after that I'll try to fix and replace springbars or whatever it's called myself....


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## ericfeuer

That sucks. I was on the verge of buying the bracelet for mine but this makes me wonder. Sorry to hear buddy. 

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk


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## Artemtoday

Artemtoday said:


> I hope so....
> 
> They just returned me the watch, the bracelet is still there.
> 
> I was suggested to fix just one broken link for 1.5k....when the whole bracelet is 3k....and does it solve the problem with poor "springbars" inside the links....others will fail...
> 
> I have to get official denial of service....after that I'll try to fix and replace springbars or whatever it's called myself....


Additionally I had to buy breitling 22mm springbars for strap coz ones from the bracelet easily detaches due to low spring tension...I guess. Coz if I had regular strap I could already twice lost my watch


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## ericfeuer

Yeah I've been using an aftermarket strap on my watch since the day I got it because the OEM strap is so uncomfortable the clasp is super Sharp. That said I've never had the spring bar detached from the lug of the watch ever since I've owned it which is good so my strap has never fallen off. 

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk


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## Artemtoday

ericfeuer said:


> That sucks. I was on the verge of buying the bracelet for mine but this makes me wonder. Sorry to hear buddy.
> 
> Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk


My original thought was to buy bracelet version and buy a strap 1st link for sake of versatility....it worked other way around...I just had to convert...

However NATO strap looks grate, just 25 USD, compared to 600usd original buckle and 1.5 for letter strap...so in total I had to pay for 1st links + strap....still looks grate....however I'm stoned...coz could not even imagine such an issuie...


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## Artemtoday

ericfeuer said:


> Yeah I've been using an aftermarket strap on my watch since the day I got it because the OEM strap is so uncomfortable the clasp is super Sharp. That said I've never had the spring bar detached from the lug of the watch ever since I've owned it which is good so my strap has never fallen off.
> 
> Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk


I've been told that bars for strap and bracelet are different design due to lateral tension...


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## WTSP

Thanks for sharing this unfortunate story. This is another example of why I've personally soured on higher end watches. The brands that sell them don't offer the level of support and service that one would expect from the price of the watch. They also nitpick and stonewall on customer issues that from a branding perspective they should just fix immediately without any questions.

Personally, if I was managing Zenith I'd ensure there was adequate budget and also a company-wide policy and training to spot silly customer pain points relating to the product and then have their staff just make them go away. You want to charge five figures for watches? Support your product adequately!

I couldn't help but notice that the Zenith website states that their watches are supported by a "Concierge Service" (see lower right. That implies you're going to support your product with a certain level of excellence. Customers' actual experiences seem to be that it's just a marketing term, not an actual expression of what we can expect to experience with Zenith.


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## Artemtoday

WTSP said:


> Thanks for sharing this unfortunate story. This is another example of why I've personally soured on higher end watches. The brands that sell them don't offer the level of support and service that one would expect from the price of the watch. They also nitpick and stonewall on customer issues that from a branding perspective they should just fix immediately without any questions.
> 
> Personally, if I was managing Zenith I'd ensure there was adequate budget and also a company-wide policy and training to spot silly customer pain points relating to the product and then have their staff just make them go away. You want to charge five figures for watches? Support your product adequately!
> 
> I couldn't help but notice that the Zenith website states that their watches are supported by a "Concierge Service" (see lower right. That implies you're going to support your product with a certain level of excellence. Customers' actual experiences seem to be that it's just a marketing term, not an actual expression of what we can expect to experience with Zenith.
> 
> View attachment 15908145


I wasn't expecting 1st class service in the third world country or replace policy if I broke the glass....I wasn't expecting quality lower than Tissot/ Casio.....now I'm afraid to wash my hands in watches....not even considering swimming before I check water resistance in 3rd party service.....I never had such a thought having Oris or Tissot or longines for years....just used them as g-shock...going to gym diving from cliff in the sea etc...


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## J__D

Are you sure you didn't step on it accidentally or something like that? The bezel area looks a bit scratched too which is surprising after only 1 week of light wear. My bracelet has been perfect so far in daily wear for 6 months. 

I had a question on the movement too, which turned out to be normal, but UK service centre was perfect to deal with (bought from UK AD but service centre is central to Zenith).


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## Artemtoday

J__D said:


> Are you sure you didn't step on it accidentally or something like that? The bezel area looks a bit scratched too which is surprising after only 1 week of light wear. My bracelet has been perfect so far in daily wear for 6 months.
> 
> I had a question on the movement too, which turned out to be normal, but UK service centre was perfect to deal with (bought from UK AD but service centre is central to Zenith).


 Step? Are you serious ? Maybe I had sex wearing them ( maybe they should state on the web page "only for show off"?)

...but how can you step without dropping them? And knowing they have ceramic gears if they drop they 1000% = dead movement. Maybe in UK it's normal to keep watch on the floor for 15k but not in UA....

Additionally they scratch very easy when you have a granite or other hard surface table or a MacBook, first scratches appeared on clasp NEXT day of wearing....titanium scratches easier then steel and I'm fine with scratches, I find appeal of wear watch, not gonna keep them as collectable (a.lange, Jacob etc,) it's a sport chronograph. if they can't stand daily wear not mentioning sport activity, wtf with the marketing?....I'm using it for daily wear. If they can not stand average daily wear what is the point?

Before, Oris and Seiko really abusing them for 8 years , diving in solty water, going to gym, folling from a motorcycle - ZERO problem (except scratches, bw, I service watches every 5 years) and ZERO BRACELET ISSUES....correct me if I'm wrong.....even ****ty Edox bracelet survived and ETA movement been drowned after 4 years still works perfectly except marks on the dial from solt....but my concern is only about bracelet, movement is perfectly accurate and operates fine.... I doubt buttons and crown would function after STEPPING on a watch. One thing is step on straped watch that is laying flat on the serface, another thing is stepping on a watch laying side ways due to bracelet....can you imagine stepping on watch laying side - unnoticed and not damaging buttons/crown????


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## J__D

I accept a long shot, but it is a strange failure. I've not heard of the bracelet failing anyone else before, in particular the links which don't have removable pins where maybe the collar was lost or forgotten, so I think it's just bad luck.

Also, if you dropped I wouldn't expect ceramic gears to crack, unless they got the impact directly, as a side note.


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## Artemtoday

J__D said:


> I accept a long shot, but it is a strange failure. I've not heard of the bracelet failing anyone else before, in particular the links which don't have removable pins where maybe the collar was lost or forgotten, so I think it's just bad luck.
> 
> Also, if you dropped I wouldn't expect ceramic gears to crack, unless they got the impact directly, as a side note.


That's a SUPER strange failure.

Forgot to mention it happened on a one side of the bracelet (at 6 o'clock ) the other side is fine.

As I told, never happened to any other bracelet,

Additionally, what are your use cases? Maybe people just take them to the restaurant once a week as a girl?

Coz as I mentioned above before I was able to do sports without any back thought.

Anyways, if I'll be denied by Zenith with replacement, I'll first try do stress test for bracelet lateral tension tolerance.....coz my guess it was just bent when I bend my wrist.

And then try to replace link pins with better ones....I doubt titanium links are damaged.

Any suggestions on the process ?


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## J__D

I really don't know what every owner does with them, I've worn mine for 6 months as a daily, don't really see a time when a could have damaged the bracelet in the way, even bending my hand, I wear my watches quite tight and above the wrist bone, so I don't have it hanging close to my hand, meaning I have completely free movement without stress on the bracelet. 

Link looks like it's fine, no idea how you'll get the bar in there though, maybe a local watch maker can help


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## Artemtoday

J__D said:


> I really don't know what every owner does with them, I've worn mine for 6 months as a daily, don't really see a time when a could have damaged the bracelet in the way, even bending my hand, I wear my watches quite tight and above the wrist bone, so I don't have it hanging close to my hand, meaning I have completely free movement without stress on the bracelet.
> 
> Link looks like it's fine, no idea how you'll get the bar in there though, maybe a local watch maker can help


I wear all my watches loose as you may see on the photo, but not enough to rotate around the hand.


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## J__D

I've seen before someone add the strap in the above way without any end links (on the classic) if you want to wear and try different straps, not done it myself, but maybe you can try if your currently experimenting, I assume they both have the same style end links


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## JSB79

I know I want this watch but I go back and force between the regular blue version on rubber and the blasted titanium ultraviolet. Thoughts?


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## Yanta

JSB79 said:


> I know I want this watch but I go back and force between the regular blue version on rubber and the blasted titanium ultraviolet. Thoughts?


Personal preferences could be different but I think the regular blue version will age more gracefully. UV version seems a little intense


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## Diofernando09

Here is mine! 
does anyone know where to get the rubber strap?
Or maybe custom strap?


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## koolpep

Diofernando09 said:


> View attachment 16573988
> 
> Here is mine!
> does anyone know where to get the rubber strap?
> Or maybe custom strap?


Zenith boutiques will sell you rubber straps, bracelets, etc. for your Defy 21 - I bought mine on rubber and added the bracelet later.


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