# Stowa Flieger Movement - Top grade or Elabore? Which should I choose?



## Loveletter (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi, I'm starting a new thread here.

Recently I've made an order for the Stowa Flieger No Logo / No date with the ETA2824 Elabore movement. 
The delivery was expected to be made by the end of November.

Yesterday I've visited the Stowa website and I realized that they are currently offering an upgrade to the movement.
They are offering a Top grade ETA2824 movement for an additional cost of 170 euros.
No COSC certificate, and delivery expected for the end of December.

They say they currently have about 280 Top grade movements to sell, and I'm tempted to upgrade.
However, I'm not sure if it's worth the additional 170 euros of money and the 1 month longer wait.

I've heard that they do a good job modifying their Elabore movements, so I'm assuming that the difference of movements might not be significant.
I'm not obsessed with the accuracy of the movements, but I think that it would be nice to have a Top grade Stowa Flieger. Personal satisfaction, I guess.
I have enough money to afford it, just wondering if it's really worth it.

What would be your choice? 
Would you choose the Top grade movement over the standard Elabore movement that Stowa offers?

P.S. Here's a picture of the Top grade movement.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

For a simple tool watch like a flieger, I personally would not pay extra for a Top Grade movement (especially a common 2824). Stowa doesn't modify the movement, just decorates them nicely. This is more than enough for a flieger (in fact not seeing the movement at all would be more appropriate.) If you expect the absolute best accuracy from your mechanical movement, you might want to consider the upgrade, but their have been a lot of folks that claim COSC performance from the Elabore, so I say keep the extra money in your pocket.


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## freight dog (Nov 22, 2011)

I ordered a top movement with my watch, but it is an Ikarus with specially requested blued hands, onion crown and an engraved rotor. I have zero regrets. For a sterile flieger I can't say I would make the same choice but then, I like the date and logo on the dial myself. I can say that after a year and a half, it is the most consistently accurate watch I have.


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## puck42 (Jun 19, 2013)

Loveletter said:


> The delivery was expected to be made by the end of November.


You will keep your place for end of November even if you switch to the top grade movement now. I made a call today to change my order and was told that by next Friday they will have more (and better) pictures of the top grade movement on their site.


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## peitron (Aug 23, 2010)

I got the standard 2801 on my Flieger, but if I would have had the option I would have paid extra for the top grade movement.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

The stowa "standard" is elabore.

ETA 2801-2
ELABORE version (our standard movement)

- rhodium-plated movement bridge with Geneva stripes and perl finish
- golden STOWA logo
- Incabloc shock protection 
- min. 42 hrs power reserve 
- 28 800 half vibrations per hour (4 HZ)
- Regulation from 0 up to plus 10 sec. divergence per day
(please keep in mind that during the "aging process" of the clock movement the bearing oil can become stiff, and your watch slower. If this circumstance disturbs you or the watch looses time a service of the clock movement will be necessary. 
Our recommendation is every 4-5 years but it is also possible that your watch is working correctly for 6, 7 or even more years).
- barrel spring Nivaflex NO
- hair spring Nivarox 2
- gold-plated Nickel balance wheel 
- max. amplitude 320 degrees 
- min. amplitude 200 degrees
- max. adjusting mark of dial on top 0.4 ms
- 17 pallets of synthetic rubin


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## Loveletter (Aug 19, 2013)

CM HUNTER said:


> For a simple tool watch like a flieger, I personally would not pay extra for a Top Grade movement (especially a common 2824). Stowa doesn't modify the movement, just decorates them nicely. This is more than enough for a flieger (in fact not seeing the movement at all would be more appropriate.) If you expect the absolute best accuracy from your mechanical movement, you might want to consider the upgrade, but their have been a lot of folks that claim COSC performance from the Elabore, so I say keep the extra money in your pocket.


Is the Stowa Flieger really a tool watch?
I know that it's a B-uhr design watch, but to me the finish and quality of the watch seems very elegant and dressy to me.
Nevertheless I understand that you think the Top grade movement is not worth it, and it totally makes sense.

I'd like to hear some more opinions, please.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

Loveletter said:


> Is the Stowa Flieger really a tool watch?
> I know that it's a B-uhr design watch, but to me the finish and quality of the watch seems very elegant and dressy to me.
> Nevertheless I understand that you think the Top grade movement is not worth it, and it totally makes sense.
> 
> I'd like to hear some more opinions, please.


Yes it's a tool watch. The fact that it's got dressy tendencies doesn't matter, because that's not what a flieger is. Kinda like an Omega diver... they can polish the case all they want, it's still not a dress watch.


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## anbu (Feb 8, 2012)

If it was me, I'd get the top movement. Since Stowa rarely offers it now. Plus it is better overall compared to the elabore grade spec wise.

As for me I can't still decide if I should get one with a date or no date.


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## Loveletter (Aug 19, 2013)

anbu said:


> If it was me, I'd get the top movement. Since Stowa rarely offers it now. Plus it is better overall compared to the elabore grade spec wise.
> 
> As for me I can't still decide if I should get one with a date or no date.


I think that's also an important factor to consider.
Getting a Flieger with a rare Top grade movement should make the watch more special and valuable, since they don't offer them regularly.

If you're going for one with a date, why not get the logo as well?


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## peitron (Aug 23, 2010)

Loveletter said:


> Is the Stowa Flieger really a tool watch?
> I know that it's a B-uhr design watch, but to me the finish and quality of the watch seems very elegant and dressy to me.
> Nevertheless I understand that you think the Top grade movement is not worth it, and it totally makes sense.
> 
> I'd like to hear some more opinions, please.


The 55mm+ B-Uhr used in WWII were tool watches, modern iterations serve to tell time and as cool conversation pieces. No one is using them as instruments for navigation, while modern divers are still used for recreational diving and even desk divers get to splash in the pool. My 2 cents.

Regardless if it is or not a tool watch, I would choose the best available movement simply because this watch is a keeper for the long haul.


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## Loveletter (Aug 19, 2013)

peitron said:


> The 55mm+ B-Uhr used in WWII were tool watches, modern iterations serve to tell time and as cool conversation pieces. No one is using them as instruments for navigation, while modern divers are still used for recreational diving and even desk divers get to splash in the pool. My 2 cents.
> 
> Regardless if it is or not a tool watch, I would choose the best available movement simply because this watch is a keeper for the long haul.


Thanks for your post.

I'm having a new question in mind.
How about the choice between the ETA2801 handwinding movement vs the ETA2824 automatic movement?
Assuming both are Top grade movements, which would be your choice?


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## goodenuffy (Apr 16, 2012)

Loveletter said:


> Thanks for your post.
> 
> I'm having a new question in mind.
> How about the choice between the ETA2801 handwinding movement vs the ETA2824 automatic movement?
> Assuming both are Top grade movements, which would be your choice?


Wow,

I am in the same situation as you as well.

I am in the midst of deciding to order the ETA 2824 or the ETA2801, both in top grade. Aiming for the no logo and no date with engraving!

On one hand, I have never owned a hand winding watch, and this will be a great chance to start, while the auto also appeals to me. Just afraid that it will be a hassle to handwind the watch daily instead of grab and go!

I also did extensive research and i realised that the back casing is shaped differently. While the manual 2801 have a flat backcase and 2824 have a domed back case.

Any handwinders or auto owners care to share some input? Should we worry about the fit of the watch?

-Sam


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## peitron (Aug 23, 2010)

Loveletter said:


> Thanks for your post.
> 
> I'm having a new question in mind.
> How about the choice between the ETA2801 handwinding movement vs the ETA2824 automatic movement?
> Assuming both are Top grade movements, which would be your choice?


Well, I went for the 2801. I'm a sucker for manual movements. Despite that it's a small movement, it really looks great through the clear caseback.

No date to set, so it's not a hassle to quickly set time, wind and go when it has stopped. What's the use of an onion crown if you're not going to wind the watch, right?


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## Shieze (Apr 8, 2013)

The 2801 does look pretty nice. If the options were available when I ordered I wonder what I would have gone for.


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## alfred.newman (Jul 1, 2013)

Loveletter said:


> Thanks for your post.I'm having a new question in mind.How about the choice between the ETA2801 handwinding movement vs the ETA2824 automatic movement?Assuming both are Top grade movements, which would be your choice?


I have also opted for the 8201... I thought it would be a good opportunity to go for a quality flieger watch with a hw movement, nicely decorated, all for a reasonable price, since I only had autos so far.


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## Omar Hawk (Oct 5, 2007)

Hello to all!

The ETA 2801-2 movement is offered only in Standard and Elaboré grade by ETA (as per ETA 2801-2 data sheet dated 21Aug09). The ETA 2824-02 movement is offered in Standard, Elaboré, Top and Cronomètre grade by ETA (as per ETA 2824-2 data sheet dated 27Jul10).

I think the decision is a question of taste. If you like hand winding go for it (no matter if it's a non-Top grade movement). If you tend to forget to wind the watch manually or simply don't care about hand winding, go for the ETA 2824-02 movement. If available (and if you agree to the extra cost), go for the Top grade - in my view it looks a little nicer and it CAN be of higher precision (at the end it depends on how well the watch maker performs the regulation).

Regards, Omar


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Omar Hawk said:


> Hi to all,


Hi


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## Omar Hawk (Oct 5, 2007)

stuffler said:


> Hi


I hit accidently "send post" after the salutation - sorry folks.

Regards, Omar


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## RickS72 (Jul 11, 2011)

Omar Hawk said:


> Hello to all!
> 
> The ETA 2801-2 movement is offered only in Standard and Elaboré grade by ETA (as per ETA 2801-2 data sheet dated 21Aug09). .........


Strange, on their website Stowa are currently offering the ETA2801-2 movement in TOP grade.

Flieger with logo and date - STOWA GmbH & Co.KG


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## Fi33pop (Aug 5, 2013)

I actually prefer manual wind now. I have to set the time on my autos anyway before I wear them and give them a few winds while I'm at it. I usually don't wear the same watch two days in a row, so my autos are dead when I take them from the box anyway.


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## Omar Hawk (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi,
Please go to: ETA SA Manufacture Horlogère Suisse: 2801-2.
Currently the downloads for the data sheets don't work. Once they do, check out yourself.
I'll do this myself as well to make sure that the data sheet version which I have on file is still up to date.

I just said that ETA don't sell the 2801-2 movement in Top grade based on information which is available to me. I don't want to post the data sheet which I downloaded to prove this as this might harm ETA's copyrights. Before I wrote the previous post I double checked the data sheet version which I posted above (again dated 21Aug09) - no Top and no Chronomètre grade for the 2801-2 movement.
It might be that STOWA modified the movement or bought it from a company specialized in reworking movements so that it can be called a Top grade movement.

Regards, Omar


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody,

ETA supplies all level of quality, like we as a customer needs and orders.

You can choose many more specifications than they show on some technical papers.

*Our ETA 2801-2 is a TOP movement with chronometer Assortiment !*

Of course it is always possible to get the handwinded movement in the same quality as the automatic.

The ETA 2801-2 ist the basic movement, all others are based on this one.
(2824-2, 2836-2)

best regards

Jörg Schauer

i will check if we have written somewhere something whihc is not completely clear, i will come back with this tomorow.

But be sure that our 2801-2 we offer as TOP *IS *Top ;-)


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## Omar Hawk (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi Jörg,
Thanks a lot for this information!
It seems that the published ETA data sheets is not the correct information to conclude about the entire movement offerings of ETA.:-(

I guess I learned the lesson.

Thanks for joining this discussion so quickly and thanks for your help to clarify the grade question on your 2801-2 movement!

Regards, Omar


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## freight dog (Nov 22, 2011)

Fi33pop said:


> I actually prefer manual wind now. I have to set the time on my autos anyway before I wear them and give them a few winds while I'm at it. I usually don't wear the same watch two days in a row, so my autos are dead when I take them from the box anyway.


EXACTLY! Unless it is your only watch or you keep it on a winder, you will be setting and twisting the stem a few times before putting it on whether it is an auto or not unless it has a massive power reserve. Want a grab and go? Get a quartz.


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## RickS72 (Jul 11, 2011)

Omar Hawk said:


> Hi Jörg,
> Thanks a lot for this information!
> It seems that the published ETA data sheets is not the correct information to conclude about the entire movement offerings of ETA.:-(
> 
> ...


Yes Jorg, thank you for the clarification on the movement you supply, the information is much appreciated.

Cheers Rick


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## goodenuffy (Apr 16, 2012)

Finally placed an order for a Stowa Flieger no logo/no date with engraving!
And most importantly, in 2801 TOP! woo hoo! cant wait! I guess if you order the top version, we can get it by late december!

Good luck buddy!


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## hbk75 (Dec 25, 2006)

I like TOP or COSC movements.

It is a rare chance that such movements are being offered now. Just grab it before they are gone. After collecting the watch, you will forget about the extra $170. It did happened to me.


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## flyingpicasso (Jun 28, 2010)

I opted for the Elabore grade and, while it is accurate to about 4 or 5 seconds/day, in retrospect I think I would go Top if given a do-over. I don't ever plan to sell my Marine, so having a more nicely finished movement would be worth it to me now. Oh well. Live and learn. Still, hard to complain about the performance I'm getting out of the Elabore 2824.


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## zpyder (Jun 17, 2010)

I wish these extra movements were available when I ordered in February, it really would have made my watch even more special. Hey ho, maybe my next purchase will be better timed! 

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk 4


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## Yixin Li (Jun 6, 2013)

Jörg Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> ETA supplies all level of quality, like we as a customer needs and orders.
> 
> ...


One thing does not understand? I remember once the upgrade is € 70 2801, it is now 130 euros to upgrade to 2801 TOP, then I can understand just before 2801 Standard Edition?


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