# Montblanc vs Cartier ballpoint pen wich is best for daily use?



## rb120134

Hi,
I am looking for a high end ballpoint pen for daily use, 
I study so I am looking for a pen that writes smooth, reliable, long lasting and easy access to refills. I wanna use it at school every day. 
I am thinking of getting a MontBlanc meisterstuck gold classique or a Cartier diabolo. Only wich brand is better, I red that Cartier writes smoother but that 
the pen sometimes doesnt fit as well in the hand, and that sometimes the blue jewel on top of the pen falls off, furthermore you can really easy order refills for MontBlanc ballpoint pens on their official site, while for cartier this is not the case. Wich ballpoint pen would be best, do you have any recommendations, do you know any other high end brands that are on pair with MontBlanc and Cartier in terms of ballpoint pens, and wich pen would suit me best for daily study, the meisterstuck gold classique or a Cartier diabolo or other pen? I am left handed by the way. Not that I think it makes much of a difference for most ballpoint pens. 
Thanks


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## gangrel

We can't address hand fit. Weight...the Cartier looks to be lacquer over brass; if so, that'll be hefty in the hand. I think you'll definitely want to handle them both.

Refills...you don't want to limit your consideration to only the brand. There are a few different form factors, but not that many, and Parker and Schmidt have refills that will fit almost all pens...often at dramatically lower prices. Google "ballpoint refill chart"...I remember more, and somewhat easier to use, sites a while back, but there's a few still out there. Even saying that...MB is going to be explicitly listed much more often, because they're much, much better known in the pen world.


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## Rivarama

They are both plastic pens. I rather have the Cartier but you should see what feels better in your hand unless it's just for quick notes. I wouldn't worry about refills; there are enough options for both. I don't use ballpoint pens but I have a lot of fountain pens. Cartier and Montblanc are very good as is Dunhill and ST Dupont. My favorite modern pens are from Namiki but as afar as I know they only make fountain pens.

I quite like these Montblanc Rouge et Noir reproductions:


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## gangrel

Namiki is Pilot. 

I wasn't sure about the Cartier. The description noted lacquer, which means a brass body generally.


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## Rivarama

gangrel said:


> Namiki is Pilot.
> 
> I wasn't sure about the Cartier. The description noted lacquer, which means a brass body generally.


Yes, Namiki is Pilot. It's also the Patek Philippe of the pen world if you go by auction prices.

The standard black Diabolos are plastic.


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## ZIPPER79

Any BP pen is ok.....The smoothness is dictated by the refill and nothing else. However a pen such as the MB or Cartier will make you feel marvelous. Currently using a few that use the ubiquitous Parker refill, and a few rollerballs, Lamy Safari, Chinese Parker Sonnet replica and a Lamy Swift. The smoothness, for me, is writing on paper that is NOT on a hard surface but in a journal or paper that's on top of another surface.


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## gangrel

Rivarama said:


> Yes, Namiki is Pilot. It's also the Patek Philippe of the pen world if you go by auction prices.


Sure, if you're talking the Dunhill-Namiki maki-e pieces. These are absolutely stunning works. Top of the line Namiki Emperors today easily break $10K. But they're not actually unique; Michel Perchin created pens in the Faberge Egg style; believe they were around $10k for the uber-fancy ones...20 years ago. Montblanc's 75th anniversary has the cap and barrel completely covered in small diamonds and, IIRC, aquamarines...it was light blue, so probably not diamond. It was *way* up there, cuz of the stones, and platinum body IIRC. And note that this is in the FP market, where the price scale is much, much more constrained. $1000 will cover just about any normal-production piece...Peli 1000, MB 149, etc. It's reasonable to say that MB, in pens, is comparable to Rolex. But the OP 39 would probably be equivalent to an MB 144...so, call it $5k for the Rolex, and about $500 for the 144. (The 149 would be closer to a Datejust.) If so...then comparatively speaking, that $10K for a pen is like $100K for a watch. Those auction prices don't look so unreasonable.

And each D-N maki-e is unique. Each is hand-executed, requiring months to complete, and few of the top grade ones were made. The urushi lacquer is expensive. The gold is, in fact, gold; the colored parts are often similarly high-quality, pricey materials. Realistically...no, these aren't Pateks. They're Voutilainen. Or Roger Smith. Or Dufour. TINY production from absolutely top of the line master artisan.

Pilot-Namiki, the current company, has everything covered. Under Pilot, there's everything from the Varsity disposable, to school pens, to the Custom and Custom Heritage 800 series and the Justus. Some are co-branded...I've seen the Falcon shown as Pilot and Pilot-Namiki. Namiki alone refers to their more artistic products...the Emperor line down to the Nippon Arts which are much, much simpler executions. I feel the Pilots offer the best value in fountain pens, period. I have 2 Custom Heritage 92's, and may get #3 soon. I have a Custom 912. All excellent, none overly pricey. Mostly pretty basic acrylic or whatever bodies, simple trims, but with excellent nibs and feeds which is where the rubber hits the road.

Back to the OP...this wasn't really tangential...just roundabout.  As Zipper noted, the writing quality is linked to the refill first. If you write extensively, then the right fit in your hand and the right weight will be critical. The pen body can matter for durability...lacquer over brass will last better than, say, hard rubber...but you're paying for the visuals. And the branding.


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## Rivarama

Patek Philippe is a major manufacturer that has record setting prices at auction. Namiki/Pilot is also a major manufacturer with record setting auction prices. I think there is less parallel between a Roger Smith type watchmaker and Namiki...you would have to get into individual artists. Roger Smith would be more like an Ohashido, or a Ban-ei, Hakase etc etc. There was a time, maybe a decade or so ago, when the Namiki and Pilot lines were more blurred. I have old an old Namiki Vanishing Point and used to have all of the Namiki Custom Impressions fountain pens and these would really be Pilots today like your Falcon.

As for refills, Cartier takes a Parker style ballpoint, so basically the world is your oyster when it comes to refills for this pen...you have tons of options and colors available. For Montblanc you have less options but I know that Monteverde makes MB in gel ink and liquid ink if you don't like MB oil based refills. As a lefty, if you aren't going to try the pens before you buy, I think Cartier will be a safer bet since you have more oil based options than with MB.


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## gangrel

Rivarama said:


> Patek Philippe is a major manufacturer that has record setting prices at auction. Namiki/Pilot is also a major manufacturer with record setting auction prices. I think there is less parallel between a Roger Smith type watchmaker and Namiki...you would have to get into individual artists. Roger Smith would be more like an Ohashido, or a Ban-ei, Hakase etc etc. There was a time, maybe a decade or so ago, when the Namiki and Pilot lines were more blurred. I have old an old Namiki Vanishing Point and used to have all of the Namiki Custom Impressions fountain pens and these would really be Pilots today like your Falcon.
> 
> As for refills, Cartier takes a Parker style ballpoint, so basically the world is your oyster when it comes to refills for this pen...you have tons of options and colors available. For Montblanc you have less options but I know that Monteverde makes MB in gel ink and liquid ink if you don't like MB oil based refills. As a lefty, if you aren't going to try the pens before you buy, I think Cartier will be a safer bet since you have more oil based options than with MB.


The Emperor line is at the level of an individual artist. This one:

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24188/lot/233/

Lemme copy one para from the description:



> In _Namiki: The Art of Lacquer Pens, Julia Hutt and Stephen Overbury state that A-grade Emperors were the best and most expensive pens in Dunhill-Namiki's inventory: "The most expensive pen would be a giant men's model No. 50 pen... Most of the best quality Dunhill-Namiki pens were custom-ordered and as such were about double the cost." Christophe Larquemin remarks in The Four Seasons of Namiki that "the most sought-after [Namiki] is also the largest, the 50. It is the most famous Namiki, dubbed Emperor, Jumbo, or King-Size by some collectors." Tomihiro Murakami states in Dunhill-Namiki and Lacquer Pens that vintage Emperor Dunhill-Namikis are of the greatest scarcity, with production limited to a period of a few years from 1932: "It is almost impossible to find this kind of pen due to the very small quantity that was made." According to Jean-François Canton's recent book on Namiki pens, only about 15 vintage "balance" or "dome-top" Emperors are known to exist. _


Image:










Recognize...that's all hand done with lacquer, gold dust, and what-all else for those colors. The detail is incredible. And there's apparently about 40 known to exist...in total. Another point: in vintage pens, this *wasn't* a common decorative technique. Overlay was, in silver and in gold. Today, it'd be fair to say that high-end maki-e is comparable to a high-end enamel dial.

What I'm talking about...this is a Yukari Royale at the upper end:










Here's a *modern* Emperor:










The Royale goes for around $5k; the Emperor is $12k.

One correction: There are also Emperor Urushi models, which are just pricey. Bit more than the Yukari Royale urushi but generally the same range. When I'm talking about artisan-level, I'm talking about the pieces like the ones shown.

And yes, the lines were more blurred not long ago. The Falcon used to actually be Namiki; I have 4...one each in black, blue, burgundy, and red. The cap band on the red reads Pilot; on the other 3, which are all earlier, it's Namiki. But the current line-up appears to be separated as I mentioned. I think the VP was first Namiki...then Pilot-Namiki...and is now just Pilot. I prefer what they're doing now, tho.


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## Rivarama

Yes I said to compare with Roger Smith you have to get to individual artists.

I have owned maki-e pens from Namiki (Nippon Art, Yukari, Yukari Royales) as well as a plain Urushi Emperor with the old style no.50 nib.

The Vanishing Point was originally called the "Capless" (I think it still is in Japan) and was branded "Pilot". Also, if you go back to the 80s Pilot made Emperor sized maki-e balance pens with the #50 nib under the Pilot name.


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## clarosec

My wife carries her Montblanc 164 everywhere for work. That being said, her go to travel pen is a Fisher bullet (always in the purse), and her backup is a Parker Jotter BP/MP combo. I'm more an FP guy but I also have a Fisher bullet, and a number of Parker Jotter / cap-actuated BP/MP combos.


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## dopuletz76

Montblanc ,but ! have you saw Caran d'Ache ?


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## dantan

I am keen to add a nice Ball Point Pen sometime soon, so this is an interesting thread.


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## TheSanDiegan

dantan said:


> I am keen to add a nice Ball Point Pen sometime soon, so this is an interesting thread.


Dan - I'm curious to hear which pen you chose, as well as the reason for your purchase - are you looking for a meeting/boardroom pen? A desk pen? A writing pen for correspondence?

Until not too long ago, the primary factor and purpose in my choice of (nice) ballpoint pens was for taking notes during meetings. For this, a nice ballpoint will certainly suffice.

However, if you plan on writing at length, I would suggest considering a rollerball. I began handwriting correspondence with an older relative a couple years ago and quickly came to appreciate the remarkable difference between the two. I have since come to view ballpoints as the quartz watches of the pen world, in that there is a relatively low price ceiling I would be willing to pay for one. I still take a nice ballpoint with me into meetings, but use rollerballs for most other purposes - a nice rollerball makes writing such a pleasant experience that I have been (for the first time ever) thinking about trying a fountain pen.

As far as MBs are concerned, I have a 163 and a PIX ballpoint. The former is my pen of choice for writing said correspondence. The latter is, well, it's a pen. I would think the 164 is built to a higher standard than the PIX though. However, if you are looking to test the waters for high-end ballpoints, in addition to MB and Cartier I would also suggest you consider Graf von Faber Castell.


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