# How do I get the back off a Hamilton pocket watch?



## straitfan (Nov 5, 2011)

My dad recently died at age 92 and he had some old non working pocket watches in a box in his closet. There is a non working Hamilton and I can unscrew the glass cover off the front but I can't figure out how to get the back off to see the serial numbers? Any help out there?

Also I have another non working Hamilton that I did get the back off and the numbers inside are 2347142 992 adjusted 5 position double roller. The inside of the back cover says Keystone watch case 10k gold filled 9558282 does anyone know anything about these? 

Also there is a non working princeton that should have a hinged cover that is missing. It says 17 jewels on the face. Any info that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

If the back won't obviously unscrew, it may be a swing ring case. 

With the bezel unscrewed, look for an obvious pry point in the case rim below the sub second dial. If there is one, click the stem out to the setting position and then pry here with your fingernail. The movement will swing out by a hinge at 12:00. Sometimes, the movement itself can separate from the swing ring if the case screws are loose, so have your hand ready to catch it just in case. Be sure the stem is still in the setting position before swinging the movement back in-sometimes lightly turning the stem can help it engage correctly. 

If you don't see an obvious pry point, the case back may be stuck, as happens sometimes. There are tricks to getting these open.


----------



## billiybop (Feb 22, 2011)

On a pocket watch there are 3 methods of back or front attachments; (1) screw on, (2) hinged, or (3) snap on back. If the front will screw off of a pocket watch, then It will also have a screw off the back. IF a hinged front and back the hinge will clearly show. If a snap on back like mentioned earlier, there will be a slight relief or cutout to gently pry off. As far as I know, there will NOT be a mixed, that is a screw on front and a snap on back on the same watch.

I bought a little inflated plastic ball on eBay that works for the screw on type. I have a classic pocket watch I could not unscrew the back and took it to a watch repair shop. The watchman used some kind of glue but not Super Glue and glued a piece of wood strip to the back, let dry and then unscrewed the back and then right away removed the wood and glue with no damage to the watch, gold plated at that.

Hamilton pocket watches, my favorite brand are getting hard to find these days. Good luck!
A box of my classics. Hamilton Railroad on the lower line second from left side.


----------



## Sodiac (Dec 6, 2008)

Wow, now you guys have me excited, I'll have to dig out the old pocket watch my father gave me, his father gave it to him. It's a Waltham I think? Can't remember the brand, I'll have to dig around to find it in storage.


----------



## billiybop (Feb 22, 2011)

Sodiac said:


> Wow, now you guys have me excited, I'll have to dig out the old pocket watch my father gave me, his father gave it to him. It's a Waltham I think? Can't remember the brand, I'll have to dig around to find it in storage.


When you find it maybe photos of the front and the back? The top row the two in the middle are Waltham 12s, that is, 44mm. Hey, 44mm, same size as a wrist watch these days.


----------



## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

billiybop said:


> . If the front will screw off of a pocket watch, then It will also have a screw off the back.


This is certainly NOT universally true true-see my above post. Many, many screw bezel cases have NO REMOVABLE BACK.

Also, it's worth mentioning that pop-off backs are exceptionally uncommon jeweled American watches(although they are typical on American pin-levers). Since I started collecting, I would estimate that I've handled over 1000 watches, and have never seen a pop-off back. Some thin solid gold cases will have snap-on bezels, but these are always combined with a hinged back in my experience. It's dangerous to even mention them when discussing an American made pocket watch-it frustrates me to know end when I find an otherwise nice screw-back case where someone has marked it up by trying to pop the back off.


----------



## billiybop (Feb 22, 2011)

Ben_hutcherson said:


> This is certainly NOT universally true true-see my above post. Many, many screw bezel cases have NO REMOVABLE BACK.


What I stated above is only my experience. I have opened all my pocket watches and serviced some of them. I am by no means an expert so I don't dispute what you say. It is not my intention to come on here and poke holes in someone eleses statements. I bow Sir to your superior knowledge and experience.

P.S. I am not trying to be snide. We both know that anytime we post on a forum, there could always be someone else with a different view. This is why it's interesting to surf the forums.


----------



## JustinD (Apr 6, 2011)

straitfan said:


> My dad recently died at age 92 and he had some old non working pocket watches in a box in his closet. There is a non working Hamilton and I can unscrew the glass cover off the front but I can't figure out how to get the back off to see the serial numbers? Any help out there?
> 
> Also I have another non working Hamilton that I did get the back off and the numbers inside are 2347142 992 adjusted 5 position double roller. The inside of the back cover says Keystone watch case 10k gold filled 9558282 does anyone know anything about these?
> 
> Also there is a non working princeton that should have a hinged cover that is missing. It says 17 jewels on the face. Any info that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


I can't help you with the questions you ask but I would like to offer my condolences on your dad.


----------



## Shangas (Mar 16, 2008)

Ben_hutcherson said:


> This is certainly NOT universally true true-see my above post. Many, many screw bezel cases have NO REMOVABLE BACK.
> 
> Also, it's worth mentioning that pop-off backs are exceptionally uncommon jeweled American watches(although they are typical on American pin-levers). Since I started collecting, I would estimate that I've handled over 1000 watches, and have never seen a pop-off back. Some think solid gold cases will have snap-on bezels, but these are always combined with a hinged back in my experience. It's dangerous to even mention them when discussing an American made pocket watch-it frustrates me to know end when I find an otherwise nice screw-back case where someone has marked it up by trying to pop the back off.


Sorry Billy, but ben is right. Just because the front screws off is no guarantee that the back also screws off.

We'll need to see photographs of this Hamilton to see exactly how it opens, but there are four main ways:

Screw-back (threaded caseback)
Hinged-back
Snap-back (usually on cheaper watches)

Swing-out. Where you unscrew the bezel, pop up the crown and swing the watch movement out (hence the name) through the front of the watch-case.

The Hamilton will be one of those four (but most likely, not the snap-on).


----------



## billiybop (Feb 22, 2011)

Shangas said:


> Sorry Billy, but ben is right. Just because the front screws off is no guarantee that the back also screws off.
> 
> We'll need to see photographs of this Hamilton to see exactly how it opens, but there are four main ways:
> 
> ...


OK, Maybe I'll learn something here. I'll check back later to see what develops. All I'm saying is that the Hamiltons I've seen that had screw on fronts also also had screw on backs. My Gruen and Bulova both have snap on fronts and backs. One of my Illinois has a snap on front but a hinged back. 
Thanks for your input.


----------



## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

And I'm sorry to shout, but I've seen pendants ripped off cases as a result of someone trying to unscrew a back that was never meant to unscrew. I only posted as I did lest the OP be in the same situation and end up damaging his watch.

One of the great beauties of a forum is that everyone can share their knowledge and experience, and hopefully arrive at a full and complete answer. Unfortunately, an incomplete answer can be dangerous. Thus my wanting to be sure that the full story was out there.



> All I'm saying is that the Hamiltons I've seen that had screw on fronts also also had screw on backs.


American watch movements and cases were almost never made by the same company. Watches and cases were both made to standard sizes. From 1860s on up to the 1920s(and after in some cases), movements and cases were typically selected separately by the customer and united at the time of sale. That's not to mention that in the 100+ since, many movements have been switched around from their original cases. Thus, a watch movement from any make can appear in any style of case.

Swing ring cases were at least somewhat popular on railroad watches from about 1880 to 1910 since they are more dust-tight than cases with multiple joints. It would certainly not be unheard of to find a Hamilton from this period in one of these sort of cases, and in fact I've seen and handled a significant number of them myself.


----------



## billiybop (Feb 22, 2011)

Ben_hutcherson said:


> And I'm sorry to shout, but I've seen pendants ripped off cases as a result of someone trying to unscrew a back that was never meant to unscrew. I only posted as I did lest the OP be in the same situation and end up damaging his watch.
> 
> One of the great beauties of a forum is that everyone can share their knowledge and experience, and hopefully arrive at a full and complete answer. Unfortunately, an incomplete answer can be dangerous. Thus my wanting to be sure that the full story was out there.
> 
> ...


No hard feelings, right? This clears up a lot. Then would you say that the front and back attach the same usually or just sometimes?


----------



## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

billiybop said:


> No hard feelings, right? This clears up a lot. Then would you say that the front and back attach the same usually or just sometimes?


Right, no hard feelings 

I think it is fair to say that the back and bezel are usually attached the same way, but certainly not always.

As I mentioned, many small, thin watches had a hinged back(quite often with a cuvette also) along with a snap-on bezel much as your Illinois. The vast majority of hinged back open face cases, however, also have a hinged bezel. I don't recall seeing an American hunting case that didn't also have a hinged back. Keywind hunting cases for watches that are keyset from the front also have the bezel on a hinge-for a grand total of four hinges on these type of cases.

One interesting combination are the factory cases used for some Illinois Sangamo Specials. These cases had a hinged bezel in combination with a screw back-presumably this was to allow easy access to the set lever.

Somewhere along the way, I've also seen a case meant for a keywind watch which had a screwed bezel with a hinged back, Presumably, this was to allow easy access for winding every day, but made setting(which ideally would only need to be done every few days) a little bit more difficult.


----------



## Ben_hutcherson (Aug 27, 2011)

Here are a couple of photos of a swing ring case-the first showing the bezel removed, revealing the hing at the top and the pry notch at the bottom. The second is with the movement swung out.


----------



## billiybop (Feb 22, 2011)

To the op, original poster, please come back and give us an update. We were just having a copasetic exchange and all friends here.


----------



## Shangas (Mar 16, 2008)

We promise...we don't bite. 

...much. 

We'll be happy to help with whatever questions you have about the watch. 

Age.
Quality.
Construction.
Applications (RR? Non RR for example). 
Care & Feeding.
Use & Misuse. 

The only thing we DO NOT cover is value/worth, because that is impossible to determine online (and most likely, in real life as well).


----------

