# Sticky  --- A Guide: Buying / Modifying / Repairing VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---



## mattbeme

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------- A Guide: Buying / Modifying / Repairing VOSTOK AMPHIBIA -------
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1.  Vostok Amphibia / Amphibian*

VOSTOK = 'East' in Russian

-also spelled: BOCTOK / БОСТОК / WOSTOK

AMPHIBIA = Amphibian (amphibious): this means that it is water-proof. Frogs are amphibians.

-in Russian: АМФИБИЯ / Амфибия (pronounciation: AM - FEE - BEE - YAH )

First created 50 years ago and is still popular today; perhaps even more popular now, outside of Russia, than it has ever been. 
It is still designed and produced in Russia and represents some of the most admirable aspects of Russian culture and Russian socialist ideals. 
It is a true 'diver' watch and is rated at 200M water resistance; a claim which has been proven true by several Vostok fans using pressure
testing equipment. 
Well made gaskets, screw-down crown, two-piece screw-down caseback and a thick domed crystal give the Amphibia it's water resistant quality. 
The crystal is 3mm thick domed lucite / acrylic and although not as scratch resistant as mineral glass, it can be easily polished to remove scratches. 
The bezels help protect the crystal.

*Water-Proof 'Compression' Case:
*
200M rated. The case is completely water-proof since the crystal and caseback are designed to 'compress' under water. 
As you dive deeper, the water pressure increases dramatically. This pressure causes the crystal to flatten out or expand slightly which creates a stronger, tighter seal.
The caseback will be forced more firmly against the rubber gasket, creating a better seal. 
You must remember to tighten the crown firmly or it may allow water to enter. 
The case is also 100% stainless steel so it will never corrode. 
You can wash your hands, wash your car or swim at the beach with no damage to the watch.

*Water-Proof Gaskets: 
*
The rubber gaskets or seals, are made of high quality rubber and are able to withstand high pressure.
Most sport watches use very thin rubber 'O' Rings or seals underneath the caseback and on the winding stem to create 
a water tight seal. Such gaskets are normally quite water resistant but only when washing your hands. Some watches _may_ allow you
to shower without damage to the watch. 
However, such gaskets may not withstand the higher water pressure when swimming and so may leak.
Such gaskets also wear quickly, require the application of silicon grease, distort or dry out.

Vostok gaskets are superior. They are made of a type of rubber which resists distortion, compression and wear. 
The caseback and winding crown gaskets are wide and flat. They present a larger surface area versus the thin O Ring gaskets of most other watches. This creates are better water-proof seal. 
A gasket inside the threaded winding stem tube prevents dust entering the watch when you unscrew the crown to wind the watch or set the time. (the stem tube is the threaded portion protruding from the side of the case)

*The Movement:

*The movements of the modern Amphibia are the *2416 B* (with Date) and the *2415 *(it is a 2416 _without_ Date) 
They are automatic winding or 'self-winding' movements which are well made, reliable and easy for any watch repairman to fix and maintain.
Although they are automatic, they can also be manually wound if they have not been worn for a while.
They have a slower beat rate or frequency than many other modern movements (19,800) yet they manage to often maintain very high accuracy, when adjusted or regulated properly. Some WUS members have stated that the accuracy of their Amphibias are very close to, equal to or even better than the accuracy of their expensive watches costing several thousand dollars! 
(the 2414A and  2409 manual wind movements used in the Ladies Amphibia and Komandirskie models are just as well made, reliable and accurate). 
Of course, since the Amphibia is such an affordably priced watch, sometimes problems do occur and some buyers have had 
movements which were not oiled sufficiently or will simply stop several times a day for no apparent reason. 
In most cases, the problem seems to be that the crown needs to be firmly tapped back into the case after setting or the watch 
may stop running. As the movement 'breaks-in', this problem usually seems to disappear. Don't let this stop you from purchasing one;
the recommended sellers of new Amphibias will honor their guarantees and will do what is necessary to solve the problem.


​ 
*The winding crown*:

The winding crown and stem are also unusual. The crown screws down and has a small rubber gasket to maintain water resistance.
However, when the crown is unscrewed to wind the movement or to change the time, it becomes very loose on the stem. 
This is named the _'Wobbly Crown' _. You may think that it is broken but it is not. It is designed to disengage from the stem, or unlock.
There is a simple clutch system which only allows the crown to lock onto the stem and turn it when the crown is pulled outward. 
So, to wind the watch or to change the time or date: unscrew the crown until it becomes loose or 'wobbly' then pull it outward 
as you turn it to wind or change the time. 
It may seem awkward at first but you will quickly learn to do it easily. Vostok designed this system to make the entire stem,
winding and setting system (called the 'Keyless Works') less complicated and easier to produce. Russian engineering at its finest.

*Advancing the date:
* 
The watch does not have a 'Quick Set' date system, however, you can advance the date faster if you move the hands just past midnight (00 hrs.), then backwards to about 8 pm (20.00 hrs.), and again advance the hands forward past midnight (00 hrs.). The date will change each time time the hands advance past midnight.

If you do not need the date feature, purchase one of the models which use the 2415 movement which does not have the date.

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*Mechanical versus Quartz:
*
A mechanical watch is a very complex machine and is not quite as accurate or as simple to maintain as a good quality quartz watch.
However, you are buying a piece of human history and a symbol of the epitome of human intelligence and skill. It has taken at least 500 
years of human ingenuity and labor to create the modern mechanical movement. The affordability of the Amphibia is quite amazing when 
you consider the complex machinery used to produce all the tiny parts, the high level of accuracy required and the hard work of the 
people in the factory.

---- _Buying a *new* Vostok will help to keep the factory open and to provide jobs for people_. ----

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Articles / Videos / Reviews

- *'Anatomy of a Vostok Amphibia' *: photos of disassembly:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f54/anatomy-vostok-68330.html

- This explains the *water-proof design* of the Amphibia case:

VOSTOK AMPHIBIA: An Analysis of Design Methodology



----_ more articles to be listed soon_ ----

---- _video links to be added soon -_---

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2. *BUYING an AMPHIBIA*

There are *Many *different models: visit the store of each seller and look at all the different models. You will notice that there are different case sizes and shapes, many different dials and many different bezels. A bezel is the wide 'ring' around the glass or 'crystal' as it is called. Bezels may have numbers, triangles, dots, dashes and other markings. 
Amphibia are sold with several different types of straps: metal, leather, nylon and silicon rubber. 
Some sellers install custom made bezels on the Amphibias they sell. 
Not all sellers have the same models in stock. If you want a particular model, continue searching, you may find it in another selers' store. Perform a general search on ebay. There are new and used models.

The sheer number of models and variations for sale is truly astounding! Take your time, relax and remember: if you cannot find the exact model you want, it may be offered for sale in a few months. Or, you can buy your 2nd choice now and buy your favourite in the future. They are very affordable and most people who wear Amphibias, buy more than 1.

'Modding' / Custom Amphibia:

There are an increasing number of owners who like to modify or 'mod' their Amphibia. There are also an increasing number of parts available which allow you to create your own design. The possibilities are almost endless. Straps, bezels, dials, hands, cases and other parts can be purchased separately to allow you to build your own unique version.  If you do not want to do the task yourself, a few sellers offer Amphibia which are already 'modded' or customized.

You can learn how to perform simple mods such as replacing the strap, installing a different bezel or doing a more advanced task such as replacing the dial. All you need are a few simple tools and the willingness to overcome your fear of making mistakes or of damaging your watch.

This Guide and the WUS Russian Watch Forum is here to help you purchase, modify and repair your Vostok Amphibia.

Join the discussions, post photos of your watches, have fun and remember: Vostoks are addictive ! 


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Sellers:


*New Amphibias:

*

*Meranom:* Russia / _*Online Store*
_
Meranom Store - Vostok Watches - Часы Восток Meranom.com

- seller, Dmitry, is a WUS member (meranom) 
- it is a factory direct store which sells all models of Amphibia, Amphibia SE and Komandirskie which are currently still in production 
- the _largest_ selection of models

- if a watch or part is not in stock, you may have to wait 1-3 months for the item to be produced 
-- use _'Pre-Order' _or add to a_ 'Wish List'_
 

- parts: cases, bezels, dials, movements, stems, crystals, straps, casebacks, movement balances and other parts

*_ EMS shipping may be offered if you order 2 or more watches or perhaps when the total order exceeds a particular amount_

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ebay sellers :
*

zenitar:* Russia / _*ebay*
_
- seller, Victor, is a member of WUS 
- large selection of most models

- parts: cases, original bezels, dials, movements, stems, crystals, movement balances and other parts

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*favinov:* Russia /* ebay
*
- fairly small selection of models

- parts: cases, original bezels, dials, movements, stems, crystals, movement balances, screws, 
steel movement mounting rings and other parts

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*shmek:* Russia / _*ebay *_

- good selection of models

- parts not sold separately

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*ritmm540: * Russia / *ebay*

- good selection of models

- parts: cases, dials, original bezels

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*arkustime:* Russia / WUS member / *ebay*

- good selection of models 
- customized models with custom Seiko insert style bezels

- parts: original Vostok bezels & custom Seiko insert style bezels, dials

- a good choice if you want a complete customized model and do not want to purchase the parts separately and assemble the parts yourself

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*am-diver: *(AM-watches) Germany / *ebay*

- good selection of Custom models complete with their own custom insert style stainless steel bezel

- parts: Seiko insert style bezels for both the larger and smaller case sizes
 
- a good choice if you want a complete customized model and do not want to purchase the parts separately and assemble the parts yourself

- _Coupon Code_:am-diver-wus

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Other sellers:* ebay:* there are quite a few sellers selling small numbers of models / Russia, Ukraine and several other countries

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* when searching ebay: search using each name separately: _Amphibia_ / _Amphibian_
** the selection of each seller changes over time

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*

Amphibia SE:*

- These are 'Special Edition' (SE)

- They have unique high quality dials and custom stainless steel bezels. 
- Several models use special variations of the 2416B movement.
- There are 2 unique cases: #150 and 960. Case dimensions are listed on the page of the individual models.

_only sold at Meranom_

- SE parts are _not _sold separately.

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*Ladies / Womens Amphibia:*

- This is a smaller version made for ladies. 
- They are rated at 100M water-proof.
- Screw-down crown, screw-down caseback and acrylic crystal. 
- Case and bezel are chrome coated brass. 
- Movement is the 2409A manual wind without date.

Sellers:

*- Meranom:* listed as Amphibia Classic *051*

ebay:

*- shmek*

*- ritmm540*

*to search ebay use several terms: Ladies, Womans, Womens, Amphibia / Amphibian

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*Used Amphibias:*

Sellers:

*asap31*: Russia / WUS member /_*ebay*
_
- seller, Amil, is a WUS member 
- the largest selection of used Amphibias
- most watches and used parts are in very good condition

- parts: new and used dials, used cases, new and used bezels, new stems

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*
Other sellers: ebay: 
* 
- there are quite a few sellers selling small numbers of used models 
- Russia, Ukraine and several other countries

* when searching ebay: search using each name separately: _Amphibia_ / _Amphibian_
** the selection of each seller changes over time

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*WUS *: search the Classifieds 
- used and NIB Amphibias are sold by WUS members, often with custom straps and custom bezels

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3.*7 main case styles
*

- 060, 090, 100, 110, 120, 420, 710 


SE models: use 8 case styles: 090, 100, 110, 120, 420, 710 and _2 unique cases_: 150 and 960 
--_only sold at Meranom_

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4.  *Dials:*

- There are *many different dials* to choose from

- Each Vostok made dial has its own 3 digit model #: it is the last 3 digits of the 6 digit watch model #

*see Meranom store for model #
**ebay sellers may use a _different _model # for the dials they sell

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5. *Bezels:
*

- Each case style is usually sold with 2 or 3 different styles of bezel but these can be easily swapped between cases
and most sellers will do this for you if you prefer a particular bezel with a particular case. _See #10_

- Each Vostok made bezel has its own 3 digit model number #

*see Meranom store "Spare Parts" for model #
**ebay sellers may use a _different _model # for the bezels they sell

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6.*Model Number #*:


- Each model has a unique 6 digit model number #

- The first 3 digits: denote which case it uses. ex. #710059 means that it uses the #710 case

- The last 3 numbers are the dial model number

- Sometimes in a WUS post, members will refer to the 6 digit model # or the 3 digit case # or the 3 digit dial #

*ebay sellers may use a _different_ model number # 
**if you need to know the factory model number # of a particular model: search Meranom store for the model and note its model #

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7. *Case sizes:
*

- see the diagrams at Meranom: Amphibian Classic Amphibian Classic Meranom.com

- 120 case: Amphibian Classic 120 Meranom.com

- SE models: two unique cases are also used 150 , 960 : _only sold at Meranom_:
- for dimensions view each SE model separately: Amphibian SE Amphibian SE Meranom.com

- The largest cases are 090, 110, 710

- The 100 and 120 can be considered mid-sized cases

- 710 is known as the 'Ministry' case
- 090 is the 'tonneau' case

- The 110 case does not curve downward at the lugs and so the lugs tend to extend straight out when on the wrist 
Many find this odd looking or uncomfortable. A large wristed person could wear this case with no problems
On most people it does not sit on the wrist well

- The 420, 710 and 090 are the most popular 
- These 3 cases, along with the 060, are very unique and many folks believe they help to create a very unique 'Russian' style and appearance

- Do not be nervous about the larger size of the 710 and 090 as they are very comfortable and most people who try them 
often like them very much

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8.* Straps:* 


*Strap sizes:*

- See the case dimensions at Meranom: Amphibian Classic Amphibian Classic Meranom.com / Amphibian Classic 120 Meranom.com


*060, 120, 420 = 18mm *

*090, 100, 110, 150, 710, 960* = 22mm
*

- If 22mm is wider than you would like: buy a tapered strap which is 22mm at the lugs and tapers down to a narrower size at the buckle

*case 960 uses a strap with a notch in the middle where it attaches to the case. Any leather or rubber strap can be notched
- Nylon straps can also be notched but you must seal the cut edges by sewing the edges with polyester or nylon thread or you can use
a soldering iron to slightly melt the edges
- Most metal bracelets cannot be notched but some are pre-notched to fit such cases

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*Metal Bracelets:*

- The metal bracelets sold with many of the models are not very popular and are of 'lesser' quality

- Mesh / 'Shark Mesh' bracelets are popular and can be purchased from several ebay sellers
-- these are like 'chain mail' / 'maille' from Medievel times. Look for the thick ones as they are usually stronger and made better 
-- usually made of Stainless steel

- whichever metal bracelet you choose, it is best to only buy stainless steel or titanium. It will not rust and is strong

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*

'NATO' Straps:*

- NATO straps: also called 'One piece' straps. This type of strap is designed to prevent the watch from falling off your
wrist if one of the springbars breaks 
- The strap is one long piece of material, usually nylon or leather, which is woven through each springbar and runs underneath the watch.
- You can easily and quickly change NATO straps since you do not have to remove the springbars
This makes it easy and fun to change to a strap which matches your clothes

- Some models are sold with NATO style straps
- You can request that the seller put a NATO strap onto a particular model if the one you want is not available with a NATO

- Nylon straps are water proof and will dry out easily when wet

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*Leather Straps:*

- Two piece leather straps are very popular. (called 'two piece' since NATO straps are 'one piece')
- There are many custom and hand-made straps for sale from advertisers on WUS, ebay and etsy 
- There are also WUS forum members who make and sell straps
You can request specific leather and thread colors to match the watch dial

*______________________________________________________________

Rubber Straps: *

- Silicon rubber straps are a popular choice for those desiring the ultimate in water proof straps
- Black is the most commonly used but they are also made in solid, bright, bold colors such as red, orange and blue
- Rubber is best for the beach, mechanics or any dirty conditions as the sand, dirt or grease cannot damage the strap 
although dirty grease or oil may stain a lighter colored strap

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List of some Strap Sellers: 


*WUS: *

- most of the recommended online stores have advertisements here on WUS ! 
- these advertisers help to pay for WUS to remain on the internet: please look at their straps

- there are also craftsman who sell just a few straps at a time or they will make a custom strap according
to your need. Look at the photos of straps they have made for other customers

- some sellers allow you to choose the type or color of leather as well as the thread color to match the watch dial

-- when you wish to buy a custom strap from a strap maker, contact them and include a photo of the strap you want


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*Strap Forum: WUS*

Straps & Bracelets

- much information, reviews and photos of all styles of straps

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*Strap Sales: WUS*

Watches - Straps & Bracelets

- private sales of new and used straps
- WTT: Strap Trading: some people like to trade a strap they do not like for another strap

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Other Sellers:
*

ETSY:* there are an increasing number of strap sellers on ETSY
- factory made and custom made by hand

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** If you see a strap that you like but you do not know where to buy it, ask the members of this forum. 
Post a photo of the strap in your message.

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HOW TO: Remove / Install a Strap:

- see section:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_

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9. *Bezels:  Standard * 


- Each case style is usually sold with 2 or 3 different styles of bezels. However, most bezels can be easily switched between cases 
and most sellers will do this for you if you prefer a particular bezel with a particular case

- However: cases # 090 , 100 and 110: these cases are slightly larger and are sold with a slightly_ wider_ bezel. 
ANY bezel will fit these cases, but the bezels sold with these cases WILL NOT fit the smaller cases:
060, 100, 120, 420, 710 / SE cases 150, 960
 
- Since the bezels made for the larger cases are slightly wider, they will not allow enough space for the crown on the smaller cases

- The bezels on the standard, non-SE Amphibia models, are chrome plated brass. The chrome is fairly durable and evenly applied

- *SE models* have stainless steel bezels

- All have painted markers

- All bezels are bi-directional: they will turn both ways. They turn freely with no clicks. 
- the friction is sufficient to prevent them from turning too easily but they may turn a small amount if you bump the bezel or if you put your hand into your pocket

- The friction can be adjusted by slightly adjusting the shape of the thin wire which holds the bezel in place

- All the bezels from cases 420, 060 and 710 will also fit the classic Komandirskie watches


Sellers: Regular / Standard Bezels


New Bezels:

- see list of sellers in #2

Used Bezels:

*asap31*: Russia / WUS member /_ *ebay
*_
- seller, Amil, is a WUS member 
- the largest selection of used Amphibias
- most watches and used parts are in very good condition
- the largest selection of used regular bezels

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HOW TO: Remove / Install Bezel and Bezel Wire:

- see section:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_


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10. * Bezels: Custom *

*
Seiko style Bezel:
*

- There are several bezel makers who produce a nice variety of bezels to fit the Amphibia.

- Some are based on Seiko diver styles and are designed to *use standard Seiko SKX007 bezel inserts. *_(see 'Bezel Insert' section)
_
- only pers184 (WUS member) creates bezels which do not require inserts although he can make insert style bezels by request.

- These are all stainless steel or bronze.

- Several different edge or knurling patterns are available.

- Bi-directional rotating.

- Held in place with a thin metal wire; exactly as the standard Vostok bezels which are sold with the watches.

- *2 sizes available: *

--- *Small size: *for cases: *060, 120, 420 , 710 / SE: 150, 960*
- these usually have a 'stepped' lower edge to provide space for the crown OR the bezel may be slightly more narrow
- these bezels will fit _all_ cases

--- *Large size: * for cases:* 090, 100, 110 *
- these will_ not_ fit the smaller cases as the crown will not have enough clearance to be fully screwed down

*some sellers only have 1 universal size to fit all cases. they will have either a 'stepped' lower edge OR the bezel may be slightly more narrow
**sellers will usually state which cases their bezels will fit. If it is not stated, ask the seller

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_
_*'Clean' style Bezel:
*

- This style of bezel, available in stainless and bronze, adds a look of class and creates a more dress style of watch, 
especially with the simpler, non-sport dials

- It is bevelled with no markings

*2 sizes available:

*
--- *Small size: *for cases: *060, 120, 420 , 710 / SE: 150, 960*
- these usually have a 'stepped' lower edge to provide space for the crown OR the bezel may be slightly more narrow
- these bezels will fit _all_ cases
 
--- *Large size: * for cases:* 090, 100, 110 *
- these are _identical _in appearance to the smaller size but are a few millimeters wider
- these will_ not_ fit the smaller cases as the crown will not have enough clearance to be fully screwed in


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Sellers: _Custom_ Vostok bezels 



*pers184* Russia / WUS member _/ *sales are by WUS PM system or ebay *

---- see his photo albums for the styles he produces
_
- the largest selection of styles to choose from 
- the edge 'knurl' or face can be custom made in many different styles: tell him which style you prefer 
- Most of his styles do not require a separate Seiko insert but he can produce an insert style if desired
- all bezels are stainless steel but bronze can be requested

 How to Order:

- look at the models he makes / *send him a PM *or* contact him through ebay */ describe the model or design you want / 
include a photo of the model if you are able to / he will contact you with the price / he is very busy as he also produces 
bezels for Seiko watches / you may have to wait 2 - 4 months to receive your bezels / you may request any number of bezels per order

_photo albums: _ https://www.watchuseek.com/members/pers184/albums/

_WUS Thread_: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/bezel-handmade-pers184-1176770.html

_ebay:
_
- occasionally sells several models on ebay (seller ID: *pers184*)

* pers184 also makes bezels for Seiko watches

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*Matt Brace*: England / WUS member / _*sales are by WUS PM system *or* ebay *_

- creates 'clean' style bezels in both stainless and bronze

_- _*ebay: ID: -- mattfor *
- occasionally lists his bezels and other parts
- you can contact him using the ebay message system

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*Dave Murphy* Manufacturing: USA / Murphy Manufacturing Co., Inc.

- creates Seiko insert style bezels for both the larger and smaller case sizes 
- also creates the 'clean' style in both sizes 
- all are stainless steel

- does _not _sell Seiko inserts - they must be purchased separately

- if the bezels are 'sold out' you can send him an email and ask him to put you on a waiting list. He manufactures bezels several times each year.
He will contact you when they become available.

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*
boris_gvb*: Ukraine / *ebay

- *sells Seiko insert style bezels for both the larger and smaller case sizes 
- referred on WUS as 'Boris bezels' or BB
- sells several styles of Seiko inserts but only with the purchase of a bezel 
- all bezels are stainless steel

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*am-diver*: (AM-watches) Germany / *ebay
* 
- Seiko insert style bezels for both the larger and smaller case sizes
- these are slightly beveled and slope downward from the crystal
- _inserts are available but are only sold with the bezels _
- also sells complete watches with the custom bezel and unique straps : a good choice if you do not want to assemble the parts yourself 
- all bezels are stainless steel

*the bezels have a beveled / angled surface on which the inserts are attached. 
The inserts are equally beveled and are designed to fit AM-Watches bezels only
-- this may prevent the use of other brands of inserts

** try Coupon Code: _am-diver-wus : _(coupon may only apply to the purchase of complete watch) 

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*dr.seikostain*: Poland / _*ebay*_
- Seiko insert style bezels
- 'Shark' / 'Saw Tooth' bezel: the edge has large curved teeth, like a saw blade
- 'Atlas' : finely knurled edge 
- 'Redneck' : deep cut version

*if the bezels are not in stock, they may not be listed. Supply is usually limited - wait for new stock
-- Contact seller for expected date of new supply


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*
zavar011*: Israel / * ebay

- *sells both Seiko insert style and 'clean' style
- unique large tooth edge 
- one Universal size to fit all cases
- Stainless Steel bezel wire is provided with each bezel and also sold separately. (Vostok and other sellers use a Brass wire) 
- all bezels are stainless steel

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*arkustime: *Russia / WUS member / *ebay
*
- sells Seiko insert style bezels for both the larger and smaller case sizes
- several styles of inserts available but are only sold with the bezels
- all bezels are stainless steel

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*saltua2014:* Ukraine / _*ebay*_

- 'Clean' and Seiko insert style bezels
- One universal size to fit all cases
- Several styles of inserts available but are only sold with the bezels
- all bezels are stainless steel
- _same_ bezels as sold from _zavar011_

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*
Meranom*: Russia / WUS member / _*Online store*_

Meranom Store - Vostok Watches - Часы Восток Meranom.com

- sells 'clean' stainless steel bezels in both the larger and smaller case styles 
- also sells a stainless version of the standard bezel of the 090 case. (which will also fit the 100, 110 cases)
- SE model bezels are sometimes sold separately - if they are in stock

- if the bezel you want is not in stock: use_ 'Pre-Order' _or add to a _'Wish List'
_

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*Bezel 'Spring' or Wire: *

- the bezel uses a very thin, stiff wire which is bent into an octogan shape. It sits within a very narrow groove or channel near the bottom of the bezel. Its purpose is to lock the bezel in place by grabbing the watch case underneath a lip below the crystal

- it is made of a strong brass alloy called 'Spring Temper'. This means that it is stiffer and stronger than ordinary electronics or electrical wire
- at least one seller has Stainless Steel. This is much more corrosion resistant than brass alloy

- you can make your own spring / wire using several different types of wire

- most bezels are sold with a new spring / wire already installed for you
-- a few sellers do _not_ give you a new wire
-- read the description when purchasing a new bezel

Sellers:


*zavar011*: Israel / * ebay

*- _Stainless Steel_ bezel wire 
- package of 10
*

zenita*r: Russia / _*ebay*_ : 5 pcs. / brass

*arkustime*: Russia /_* ebay*_: 5 pcs. / brass

*favinov*: Russia / _*ebay*_: 5 pcs. / brass

*ritmm540*: Russia / *ebay*: 5 pcs. / brass



*Meranom*: Russia / WUS member / _*Online store*_

Meranom Store - Vostok Watches - Часы Восток Meranom.com



-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Remove / Install Bezel and Bezel Wire:

- see section:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_


HOW TO: Make a Bezel Spring / Wire

- see section:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

*_ 
_______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________

*Bezel Inserts:*

- Bezel inserts are a thin flat ring, usually aluminium, which is attached to the top of a bezel which is designed to use inserts
- they are painted or anodized with painted numbers or markers (indices)

- usually called 'Seiko inserts' or 'Seiko_ style_ inserts' 

- many diving and sport watches use these especially Seiko and even Rolex

- many styles and color combinations

 - the custom bezels made to fit the Vostok Amhpibia only accept one size of insert:

*!! You must only buy inserts for ----- ' Seiko SKX007 *or *7002 ' -----* these will fit the Vostok custom bezels !!

Insert Size:

*OD 38mm*

*ID 31.5mm*



____________________________________________________

Types

*Aluminium: *

- these are the most commonly used type of insert

A:  numbers and markers are painted
-- these are the most common

B: numbers and markers are raised (usually not painted: plain aluminium color)
-- there are only a few models

C: engraved: numbers and markers are engraved and usually painted
-- more scratch resistant since the markers are below the surface 
-- not too many models to choose from

*some inserts have a lume paint spot at the 12 position

*Glass: *

- numbers and markers are usually painted with lume on the back surface: this protects them from scratches 
-- these are the best choice if you want numbers and markers that will glow in the dark
-- not too many models to choose from

*Ceramic:*

- numbers and markers are usually engraved
- few models to choose from
- may crack if not handled carefully when installing or if the watch is dropped 
- black ceramic has a particularly nice appearance 
- the color is very resistant to fading and damage

_____________________________________________________________________

Sellers: Seiko (or Seiko style) Bezel Inserts


- some sellers of custom bezels do not sell inserts separately; you must purchase the insert with one of their bezels



These sellers sell inserts _separately__: 
_

*
Dagaz Watch Ltd*.: Hong Kong / Jake Bourdeau

- all inserts are Aluminium
- the largest selection of Seiko inserts

- look for_ SKX007_ or _7002_ in each item description: http://www.dagazwatch.com/apps/webst...y/12255?page=1
---------------------------------------------------------


*yobokies:* ('Seiko boy' spelled backwards): Hong Kong / Harold: WUS member

- inserts are Aluminium / a few are glass  
- range of bezel inserts is somewhat different to that of Dagaz
- _glass_ inserts: the painted markings are more durable on these since the paint is underneath the glass

-Bowse his designs here: Bezel Inserts by yobokies | Photobucket

---To order, send an email to Harold and he will send you a PayPal invoice

- in each item descriptionlook for inserts made to fit_: SKX007 _or_ 7002_
-- if you do not see _SKX007 _or _7002_ listed or no model numbers are listed: send him an email and ask about model
compatibility

**_the bezels he sells will not fit Amphibia: only Seiko watches

_----------------------------------------------------------

*DWL Watches*: Bezel Inserts - dlwwatches

- most inserts are *Ceramic
*- there are also plain metal inserts with no markings and are not painted 
-- available in either aluminium or brass

_!!!! the ceramic inserts may not fit correctly: the inner diameter may be too smal
_- the insert may crack if it is forced over the crystal

* I will contact DWL to verify the dimensions. I will then update this info.

----------------------------------------------------------

ebay: ---- _this section will be expanded soon_ ----


*dr.seikostain*: Poland / _*ebay*_ 
- small but unique selection

*wholesaleoutlet990:* USA / *ebay*
- small selection
- USA = faster / safer shipping for North American customers
* SKX007 are listed separately from 7002 inserts: search for both


other sellers: ebay: 
- there are several other sellers with small selections


---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Remove / Install Bezel and Bezel Wire: 


--- see section : _"__*How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia*" _

---------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Install Bezel Insert:


- 2-sided or double-sided tape / a few drops of CA glue (Super Glue) / a few spots of epoxy / rubber or contact cement
 
recommended: _rubber / contact cement_
- this glue allows you to remove the bezel insert in the future and is more water resistant
than tape
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11.* Other Parts:

 
*
- Cases, Dials, standard Bezels, Hands, Movements, Crowns/Stems, Gaskets and Crystals:

*--- Can be purchased separately from the sellers listed in #2* ---

- Search ebay for the parts you need, new or used, as the number of sellers with Vostok Amphibia parts is slowly growing

- Some sellers only have used parts (often in very good condition) some only sell brand new parts and a few have both used and new


_* I soon will add photos of cases, dials and other parts

_

_____________________________________________________________________


*Cases:


*- All of the 7 main case models can be purchased separately on ebay as well as from Meranom

- SE cases: 150, 960 _cannot_ be purchased separately*

-* _ALL_ cases are Solid *Stainless Steel

*
Sellers:

*- Meranom:* Russia / _online store

ebay:_*

- zenitar: *Russia *
- favinov: *Russia

*- asap31:*_ Russia

- _


*
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

*
HOW TO: Install Parts Into a New Case: *

*- see sections:*

-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

 -- "Repair and Maintenance"

_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________

Dials:
*

- Many of the dials you see on the new Amphibias can be purchased separately from Meranom and several ebay sellers

- There are also a few sellers of reproduction dials of a few of the _early_ Amphibia models

- dials are made _with_ or _without date 'window'_: the date window is the small square hole which allows you to see the date
-- if you have a 2416 movement (with Date) and you want to install a different dial which does _not _have a Date window, this is no problem:
the Date 'Wheel' on the movement will continue to function under the dial. No damage will occur to the movement or dial
-- you can also choose to remove the Date Wheel from the 2416 but this is unnecessary 
(the Date Wheel is a disc underneath the dial on which is printed the numbers 1-31 )

Date window: 3 positions:

- 3 o'clock: the most common
- 6 o'clock
- 4:30 : much less common

*Dial Size: -- 28 mm * diameter



Sellers:


*- Meranom:* Russia / _online store_*

- zenitar: *Russia / _ebay
_*
- favinov: *Russia / _ebay_*

- asap31:*_ Russia / ebay

- _

----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Remove / Install a Dial: *

*- see sections:*

-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

 -- "Repair and Maintenance"*

_______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________


*
Movements:
*

- only 2 movements are used for the standard non-SE Amphibia:

2416B
2415

- _all_ 24xx movements will fit inside _all_ Amphibia cases 
- _all_ modern Amphibia dials will fit on these movements: 2409 / 2414 / 2415 / 2416 B

*
---------------------------------------------------------

2415 : Automatic - *_no Date

__- 31 jewels
- 19,800 bph

_- only sold at Meranom: 
-- if you want to replace the movement in your Amphibia and it contains a 2415: you have the option
to use a 2416 B. These are easier to find and will fit the case and dial perfectly. Although the 2416 has
the Date feature, you can install a dial without the Date window / opening. The Date Wheel on the movement
will continue to function under the dial
You can also choose to remove the Date Wheel from the 2416 but this is unnecessary.

_
_*2416 B* : _*Automatic - *_with_* Date*_

- 31 jewels
- 19,800 bph



---------------------------------------------------------

2409 and 2414 movements are not used for the Amphibia but they will easily 
fit inside all modern Amphibia cases and can be used with any modern Amphibia dial

- these movements use the same stems as the 2415 and 2416 B


*2414* : _*Manual*_ winding - with* Date
*
- 17 jewels
- 19,800 bph

- usually only used for _Komandirskie _models but you may also use one with an Amphibia dial and Amphibia case 
_(see section: "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia")_
- this is a good choice if you want a Manual winding watch _with_ the Date


 
*2409 *: _*Manual *_winding - _no Date

_- 17 jewels
- 19,800 bph

- used for the 'Ladies' Amphibia 
- used for _Komandirskie_ models but you may also use one with an Amphibia dial and Amphibia case 
_(see section: "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia")_
- this is a good choice if you want a Manual winding watch _without _the Date

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sellers:


*2416 B* / *2414* : 

*- Meranom:* Russia/_online store_*

- zenitar:* Russia / _ebay
_
*- favinov:* Russia /_ebay_

*2415 / 2409*: _

- only available from Meranom 
_

----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Remove / Install / Repair Movement:

- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"* 

----------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Replace Dial 


- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"* 

_______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________

*
 
Stems / Winding Crowns:

*
- There 3 different lengths: each case uses a specific length

!! You must order the correct size !!

- _Do not _buy used: it may be too worn to work properly

These are the 3 groups of cases which use the 3 different stems: 

- 090, 100, 110, 150 (SE)

- 420, 710, 960 (SE)

- 060, 120

- sellers will state which cases the stem will fit. 
- make sure your case is in the list *

----------------------------------------------------------
*
Sellers: *

*
*- Meranom:* Russia / _online store_*

- zenitar: *Russia / _ebay
_*
- favinov: *Russia / _ebay_*

- asap31:*_ Russia / ebay

_*
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

*HOW TO: Remove / Install Stem - Winding Crown:


- see sections:
*
-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

 -- "Repair and Maintenance"



__________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________

**Gaskets:

*- there are 3 flat, rubber gaskets (seals) : 2 for water / 1 for dust
- Vostok gaskets are superior. They are made of a type of rubber which resists distortion, compression and wear

- gaskets are wide, flat rings

- the dust gasket is located inside the case / crown tube. It is underneath a flat, metal washer
-- the case / crown tube is the threaded part which protrudes from the side of the case onto which the crown is screwed
-- this gasket prevents dust intrusion when you unscrew the crown
-- it normally will last a long time and may only require replacement every 2nd gasket replacement
HOWEVER:
---- if your watch uses the 2414 or 2409 Manual winding movement: you should replace this gasket whenever you 
replace the other two gaskets. This is due to the fact that when you wind the watch each day, the stem will move against the
inside edge of the gasket causing more rapid wear

*

*---------------------------------------------------------

Sellers: see list of Sellers in #2


* _some sellers do not include the case / crown tube dust gasket: if you do not need it, then don't worry about it
** some sellers may sell the dust gasket separately and may also include a new metal washer for it 
(the old washer can be damaged when you remove it) _*


---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

*
HOW TO: Replace Gaskets:


- see sections:
*
-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

 -- "Repair and Maintenance"



__________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________

*
*Crystal:*

- the crystal is the 'glass' on top of the dial
- it is made of *3 mm thick*, domed acrylic plastic: this is one of the thickest plastic crystals of any watch ever made
- it protects the dial and movement and prevents water and dust from entering
- a thin steel ring is used on the bottom rim to create a water resistant, tight seal. No glue is used 
- it is designed to flatten or distort slightly under pressure when diving, snorkelling or swimming
-- this causes the crystal to expand slightly which creates a tighter seal and increases water resistance

- though not as scratch resistant as mineral or sapphire glass, the scratches can be removed easily 
- since it is much thicker than the plastic crystals of other watches, it is very shatter resistant and even 
if the watch is dropped on a hard floor, it most likely will not break. There are very,very few reports of cracked crystals

Crystal Dimensions:


31.20 mm : diameter

05.35 mm : height 



Sellers:  see list of Sellers in #2

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Remove Scratches - Crystal

- see section:

*-- "Repair and Maintenance"*

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Remove and Install a New Crystal:


- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"*

_________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________
*

Casebacks:


*
*See-Through / Glass**:*

Custom made casebacks which use a mineral glass mounted in the centre to allow you to see the movement

-- you should also replace the white plastic movement holder / mounting ring. Use a steel ring. Amphibia used to be made with steel rings but now only use plastic. When installing a see-through glass caseback, it is better to use a steel ring since it has a nicer appearance than the white plastic ring when you look through the see-through caseback. (_see below for sellers of mounting rings)
_

!! these casebacks are _2.33 mm taller / higher than the original caseback_
= total 6.86 mm tall / high

-- this will cause the watch to sit higher on your wrist. This may be unacceptable when a NATO strap is used, especially a 4 or 5 ring, since there will be 1 or 2 layers of strap material under the watch. This will create a very tall and perhaps odd looking watch.

- some users do not like the extra height while others are not bothered by the height

!! due to the increased height of these casebacks, _some caseback removal tools may not fit correctly _
-- the 'pins' of the 'JAXA' style tool for example, are too short to reach into the slots of the caseback screw ring. 
-- you can modify another set of pins with a file or grinder: grind the 'shoulders' or barrel of the pins so that the 
centre point or 'tooth' extends 3 mm further
-- you can also create a simple tool using screws or nails driven into a piece of wood, each protruding 7 - 8 mm.
File or grind the sharp points or threads on the screws

Sellers: 

*Meranom:* Russia / *online store*
- rated at 200M water-proof / stainless steel 
- if not in stock: use '_Pre-Order_' or add to a '_Wish List'
_

ebay:

*dr.seikostain*: Poland / *ebay*
- rated at 200M water-proof / stainless steel / _AR Anti-Reflective coating _on the inside surface of the glass
- if he does not have any in stock, they may not be listed. Contact seller to request part.



*both the Meranom and dr.seikostain casebacks appear to be identical except for the AR coating on the dr.seikostain unit 
- both are of excellent quality 
*

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Steel Movement Mounting Ring:
*

- it is a simple ring made of steel or stainless steel
- the movement fastens to the ring using 2 small screws
- steel rings are not better than the plastic rings: they have a nicer appearance when you install a see-through / glass caseback

Sellers:

- *dr.seikostain*: Poland / *ebay*
-- _stainless steel _mounting rings

- *favinov:* Russia / *ebay*
-- original steel Vostok rings from vintage Amphibia
-- also sells the 2 small screws required to secure the movement to the ring



- other ebay sellers may have steel rings: perform a search. _Ask sellers for the required 2 screws 
_
*

_______________________________________________________________________

Casebacks with Custom Images:

*- These casebacks have unique images stamped on them:
-- dophin, killer whale / orca, scuba diver ('scuba dude'), mermaid, Yuri Gagarin and several other images
- They are sometimes available from sellers of used Amphibias



Sellers:

*Meranom*: Russia /* online store *
- several styles available although you may have a long wait for new stock
- if not in stock: use '_Pre-Order_' or add to a '_Wish List'
_ 
ebay:

*asap31*: Russia / _*ebay*_
- he sometimes has used Amphibias with unique casebacks 
-- look at the photos of each Amphibia. He always provides a photo of the caseback 
- he may be able to find a particular caseback for you if you contact him

- ebay: perform a _Search_: several sellers may have unique casebacks both new and vintage 
*

*----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Remove / Install Caseback and Movement Mounting Ring 


- see sections:*

-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

 -- "Repair and Maintenance"


_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

*
*

Date Wheels:

*
- the Date wheel is the part which moves once each day, at midnight (00 hrs.) to show you the date
- it sits under the dial and is a large, circular gear with a large hole in the middle. The gear teeth are on the inside edge
- Date Wheels can be replaced. If it becomes damaged, it is easier to replace it with a new unit.

2 colors:

- *White* with black numbers: the most common
- *Black* with white numbers: much less common

3 Date Positions:

- *3 o'clock*: the most common
- *6 o'clock *
- *4:30 
*
* 4:30 date window position: _Vostok uses a 3 o'clock_ _position date wheel _
*

*Sellers:*

favinov: *used and new*

asap31: *used and new*

Meranom: * new 
-- you must ask for one, as the wheel may not be listed under the 'Spare Parts' category
*

* *currently_,_ _the Black date wheel is available only from Meranom_ 
**** if you buy a _used _date wheel you must ensure that it is _not bent _and the _teeth must not be damaged
_**** *if you cannot find the date wheel that you need, purchase a _used_ movement which has a good date wheel.
Remove the wheel and place it into your watch  *

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------

*
HOW TO: Remove / Install Date Wheel:


- see sections:*

-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

 -- "Repair and Maintenance"


*
*
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________



Hands:*


Dimensions


H = 1.40 mm (hole) x 8.5 mm long ('Arrow' style) 9.0 mm (narrow Komandirskie style)

M = 0.90 mm (hole) x 11.50 mm long

S = 0.17 mm (hole) x 10.0 mm long + 4.0 mm (tail) = 14.0 mm total length (_non-lume spot hand is same length_)

S Hand '_Tube' _length: ________ mm long (----_ I will add this info. soon_ ---- ) 
 


*the length is measured from the center of the hole to the tip
**SE models: may use hands which are longer than these but the hole dimensions are the same

_________________________________________________

*Hour and Minute Hands*: 
 

4 Colors: Black, Silver, Gold, 'Blued' steel (dark blue)

- Black: most often used with light color dials 
- Silver: most often used with dark color dials
- Gold : used with both light and dark dials
- 'Blued' steel (dark blue): made of steel that is heat treated to create a dark blue color

- if you do not want the hands to distract from the view of the dial, do not use contrasting hands:
-- use silver or gold hands on a light color dial, and use black hands on a dark color dial

- Hour hand is shaped like a short, wide arrow
--a few models use the same Hour hand as used with Vostok Komandirskie: a short, narrow hand 

- each hand contains 'Lume' or luminescent paint which glows in the dark

---------------------------------------------------------

Sellers: Hand sets

-- see list of sellers in #2


_'Blued' steel (dark blue):_

- currently only sold at Meranom



* Silver hands may also be called _'White' 
_

_____________________________________________

*
Hands with *Improved*  Luminescent Paint*:

- several sellers now sell hand sets with better lume paint. These glow brighter and glow for a longer period of time

- you can also replace the lume yourself: remove the old lume and add better quality lume to increase the brightness and duration 
 

Sellers: 

Currently only these sellers offer hands with better lume:

*Meranom* : Russia / online store: 4 hand colours available: Silver, Gold, Black, Blue : uses _NoctiLumina_ with increased brightness and duration

*favinov* : Russia / ebay: 2 hand colours available: Silver, Black: uses _SuperLuminova _with increased brightness and duration 

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Re-Lume Hands

- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"
*_

_________________________________________________________


_SE models_: Hour and Minute Hands:

*Black or Silver *

- SE hands usually have lume of higher quality so the hands will glow brighter and will glow for a longer period of time

*3 Shapes:*

- 'Paddle': long, wide, rectangular with large areas of lume paint / the design is based upon some of the early Amphibia models 
-- these are very popular

- Tapered: long hands with large amount of lume paint / tapered toward center of dial

- Straight: improved version of Komandirskie hands: larger area of lume paint

- SE hands are _not_ sold separately

'Paddle' Hands : there is a WUS Russian Forum member who is designing hands similar to the 'Paddle' hands
(see:_ 'Custom Hands' _- below) These may be for sale soon - I will update this information.

______________________________________________________________


*Second Hands:
*

5 Colors: Red, Light Blue, 'Blued' steel (dark blue), White, Silver, Gold

- all non-SE Amphibia second hands have a small circle with lume paint.

- most models use a Red hand

_Sellers:_ Second Hand:

-- see list of sellers in #2

_'Blued' steel:_

- currently only sold at Meranom

__________________________________________________
_*

SE models*:_ *Second Hands:* red, silver, black or white 

- some models use the Komandirskie second hand: it does _not_ have a lume spot
- some models use a second hand with an Arrow Head tip (triangle)

*_SE hands are not sold separately unless the hand is from the Komandirskie, in which case you
can buy them separately_

---------------------------------------------------------

*you may see photos of Amphibia with Hour and Minute hands that are white, orange or other non-standard colors.
These hands may also be shaped differently. These are hands that have been custom painted or hands from other 
watch manufacturers such as Seiko or ETA --_ see: 'Custom Hands'_

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Remove / Install Hands:

- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"*

______________________________________________________________________
*___________________________________________________



Custom Hands: *


Modding Vostok watches is becoming more popular and therefore there are now more choices in custom hands

You can replace the lume yourself: remove the old lume and add better quality lume to increase the brightness and duration

If you would like hands of another color or style than you have currently:  you have several choices:

---------------------------------------------------------

A: *Buy New Vostok Hands*

Buy new hands made specifically for Amphibia

- see the above section_ 'Hands'_ for sellers of standard Vostok hands:

-- you can buy Hour and Minute hands for Vostok watches in silver, black, gold, 'blued' steel (dark blue) 
-- you can buy Second hands in Red, Light Blue, 'Blued' steel (dark blue), White, Silver, Gold

*some colors may be out of stock. Ask seller for the color you require.

---------------------------------------------------------

'Paddle' Hands : there is a WUS Russian Forum member who is designing hands similar to the 'Paddle' hands on SE models

- some of the original models of Amphibia used 'Paddle Hands'.

_
--- These may be for sale soon - I will update this information when they become available
_

__________________________________________________


B: * Paint the Hands 

*You can paint the hands yourself, if you want to change the color to create a unique style

- use colors which will contrast with the dial color or will compliment or contrast with the strap


HOW TO: Paint Hands

- see section:*

-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"

____________________________________________

*C:* Make the Hands Yourself:
*
- you can make your own hands using thin metal such as brass or stainless steel although it is difficult to make them properly
-- the mounting hole size must be precise and it is difficult to cut out the central portion to hold the lume paint


HOW TO: Make Hands

- see section:
*
-- "How To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*


__________________________________________________

D: * Seiko / ETA / other brand Hands:*

- many styles of Seiko and ETA hands have mounting holes which are very similar in size to Vostok hands HOWEVER:

the holes _must be modified or they will not fit _

-- you must make the holes either smaller or larger depending on their size 


- Seiko and ETA hands offer a variety of unique styles 
- some hands are painted orange, red, blue, yellow or white 
- SuperLuminova C1 or C3 is often used: one of the best luminescent paints

- _'Sword'_ and _'Plongeur_' : these are two of the most popular styles among Seiko modders


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sellers:

*Seiko:*

*- **Dagaz Watch Ltd*.: Hong Kong / Jake Bourdeau
Seiko hands: http://www.dagazwatch.com/apps/webstore/products/category/832274?page=1
- ebay: there are an increasing number of ebay sellers of Seiko hands

*ETA / No Brand:*

- most Watch Parts Suppliers sell ETA and un-branded hands 
- only buy hands of the correct dimensions

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Remove / Install Hands:

- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"*

HOW TO: Re-Lume Hands

- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_

HOW TO: Modify Seiko or ETA Hands

- see section:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"*_


- see: Hand Sizes

___________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________



*Balance Wheel:
*

- the Balance Wheel is the gold colored 'wheel' which turns back and forth quickly
- there is a very, very thin wire attached to the Balance which is coiled loosely underneath the Balance
-- this is called the "Hairspring" : it is about as thin as a single human hair and it acts as a spring to spin the Balance wheel

- the Hairspring is very fragile and it may be damaged if you are not careful when you remove the movement 
-- if damaged: it is easier to replace the entire Balance assembly versus attempting to repair the Hairspring

--------------------------------------------------------

*Regulation:*

- the Balance / Hairspring assembly regulates the 'timing' / 'speed' of the entire watch movement 
- there is a lever attached to the Balance assembly which alters slightly the length of the Hairspring
- it is this slight altering of Hairspring length which causes the watch to run either slower or faster

-------------------------------------------------------

*2416 , 2414 , 2409 :*

- these movements use the same Balance / Hairspring assembly

-------------------------------------------------------

Sellers:

*Meranom

zenitar

favinov*

_*Balance assemblies are sold individually or as a package of 10 pieces 
_
( if you must buy 10 but you only need 1: keep 2 and sell the other 8 pieces in the Russian Watches Forum )

--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Replace Balance Assembly


- see section:

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"*

---------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO: Regulate Watch 'Timing / Speed' 


- see section:

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"

*
__________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________

*Mainspring / Barrel Spring*

- the Mainspring is also called the Barrel Spring
- it is a very thin strip of metal which is coiled inside a flat, round part called the Mainspring Barrel 
- when you wind the watch by turning the Winding Crown, or when the winding Rotor spins as you wear the watch, the Mainspring 
becomes coiled tightly. It is in a state of Tension. The spring then wants to release this tension and un-coil itself . This release of the spring tension provides the energy required to make a watch movement run. The Balance assembly and Escapement parts prevent the rapid release of the tension by allowing only a very slow and very precisely controlled release of the tension.

- with age and repeated use, the Mainspring may weaken and break
- a broken spring can be repaired or replaced
- it is easiest to replace the entire Mainspring / Barrel Spring as entire assembly in which the spring is installed inside the Barrel
-- you need only to remove the old assembly and install the new assembly

---------------------------------------------------------


*2416 , 2414 , 2409 :

*- 2416, 2415 _Automatic_ movement does _not_ use the same Mainspring / Barrel spring as 2414 , 2409 
-- you must only buy the part labelled: "For 2416"

--------------------------------------------------------

Sellers:

*zenitar: * ebay

*favinov: *ebay

* _seller may call it " Barrel Spring "_

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Replace Mainspring


- see section:

 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"*


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

*Rotor *

- also called: *' Auto-winding Rotor ' * or *' Oscillating Weight '*

- this is the crescent or half-moon shaped part which spins when you wear the watch
- it is attached to the top center of the movement with a single screw
- it contains a tiny ball bearing in its center which allows it to spin freely clock-wise or counter-clock-wise
- it contains a small, heavy piece at its outer edge which helps it to spin around by using momentum
- as it spins, it turns a set of gears which wind slowly the Mainspring (Barrel Spring): this is why it is 
called 'Automatic'. You do not have to wind the watch yourself: it will wind itself as you wear the watch


Several Styles:

- the rotor which is supplied with each 'Classic' or regular Amphibia has a large 'B' logo cut into it 
('B' = Boctok / Vostok)
- some special models of Amphibia, SE for example, may use a Rotor with a unique pattern 
- you can purchase one of these, when in stock, and install it on your Amphibia
- it is a very easy process: you need only a small slotted / straight blade screwdriver


Sellers:
*
Meranom: *sells the standard 'B' logo rotor / gilded, brushed finish rotor

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------


HOW TO: Replace Rotor


- see sections:

*-- "H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia"
*_
 *-- "Repair and Maintenance"*


__________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________

12. *'**Modding' / Customizing*

- You can create your own unique Amphibia. The possibilities are nearly endless with the different  cases, dials and bezels available.

- Some modders here on WUS use Seiko and ETA hands after first altering the size of the mounting hole in the hands.

- NATO style straps come in a great variety of colors; striped or solid colored. They can be chosen to match or to contrast with the dial color.


- There is a growing community of Amphibia and Komandirskie modders and enthusiasts in the Russian forum who can give you advice on 
purchasing an Amphibia or parts to assemble one yourself.

- We can also guide you through the simple process of regulating (if it's required) to allow the watch to be more accurate.

- You can also learn to perform simple repairs if you aren't afraid to buy a few simple, small tools and to learn something new.



---------------------------------------------------------

A:*  Ideas*:


 see the thread: '*Vostok mods *': https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/vostok-mods-1133714.html 


- look at the interesting and unique Amphibias WUS members have created. 
- new photos, ideas, and questions and answers are added nearly everyday! 
- ask questions: the forum members will help you find parts or help you learn to modify your own Amphibia

______________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________

B:*How To: Mod 



*
----- _this section will be expanded soon_ -----*


*
*Tutorials: 
*

WUS:

- https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/requ...en-lots-not-so-high-quality-pics-3036938.html


-  *'Anatomy of a Vostok Amphibia' *: photos of disassembly:

- https://www.watchuseek.com/f54/anatomy-vostok-68330.html

_________________________________________________________________

*BEZEL: * How to Remove / Install

- photos and a video:

Vostok Amphibia Bezel Replacement - webWatchWorld

-

------------- _more information coming soon_ ----------------

 *Bezel Wire*: How To Make


- excellent tutorial with photos

https://www.watchuseek.com/f54/replacement-wire-spring-vostok-bezel-829582.html


________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________


*Case / Bezel:* Brushed / Matte Finish 


*Matte or Dull Finish:*

- this is simply a dull finish which is much less reflective: You are removing only the highly polished, bright appearance
- there are no conspicuous scratches or lines

*'Brushed' Finish*

- 'brushed' metals have a matte / dull appearance with small scratches or lines on the surface
- these scratches or lines run in straight parallel lines, or have a circular pattern

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Tools*:

- Sandpaper / sanding pad / 'Scotch-Brite' type of pad
- steel wool
- metal polish 
- powdered cleanser such as 'Old Dutch', VIM or cleanser for pots and pans
- toothbrush (electric is best)


optional: 
- Dremel type tool or bench mounted grinder 
- buffing wheels / discs
- metal polishing compound bars or 'cakes'

---------------------------------------------------------


Method: _Brushed_


1. remove the bezel _(see 'Bezel: How To Remove / Install)
_2. if you are brushing the case you must apply tape to the crystal and all parts that you do not want to brush 
3. secure the bezel or case in a watch case holder, small vise or similar tool to hold it steady 


*How Prominent do you want the 'Brush' marks to be? * 

What grade / grit of sandpaper or sanding tool should you use?
- That depends upon how deep or prominent you would like the brush lines to appear

- coarse grade / grit = deeper brush lines and a more matte surface 
- fine grade / grit = smaller brush lines and a smoother, brighter surface

-- If you make a mistake, don't worry, simply continue rubbing the area until the pattern is corrected


*
Edges*:

- all sharp edges will become more scuffed than other areas. You must be careful

-- do not apply too much pressure along the edges 



*Chrome plated Bezels and Cases:

*-- Be careful if you are brushing a chrome plated bezel or case: you do not want to remove too much chrome because the brass will be seen. It is best to work slowly and carefully and do not use a coarse grade / grit; use fine grades only


-- Bezels: You must be careful: the chrome of the sharp edges will be scuffed more quickly than the central portion. Apply more pressure on the central portion and less pressure on the edges. It is best to use a very small piece of sandpaper under one finger; this will give you more control 
 
- you can place the sandpaper onto a flat surface and rub the bezel against it but you must never allow the bezel to rub at an angle because this will scuff the edge too much. It is best to use this method with flat bezels. Bezels with an angled top face must be held at the precise angle: if not, the edges will be scuffed too much and the chrome may be removed

*

Creating the Pattern:*


TEST:

- begin with a _fine_ grade or grit of sandpaper or whatever tool you are using to brush the surface 
- brush or scuff a small area:
-- if you like the result, continue
-- if you want a more conspicuous pattern, use a _coarser_ grade or grit

- you must make all the brush or scratch marks / lines line-up or run paralell to each other, no matter which pattern you choose 

-- Circular Lines, you must follow the circular shape of the bezel or case
--- it is best to make the lines in one, single movement or only a few movements. Each time you lift the sander from the item, and then attempt to continue the pattern where you stopped, the pattern may become crooked

-- 'Sun-burst'/ 'Sun-ray' pattern, you must move the sandpaper from the inside edge to the outside edge of a bezel, but only scuff sections of about 5 mm wide at a time. This will help to keep the lines parallel
--- all lines must appear to radiate from the same center point


- do not be afraid of damaging the watch or bezel:
-- if you make a mistake, don't worry: scuff the area again carefully until the lnes are parallel


- clean the parts thoroughly 


---------------------------------------------------------


Method: _Matte Finish:_


1. remove the bezel _(see 'Bezel: How To Remove / Install)
_2. if you are finishing the case: you must apply tape to the crystal and all parts that you do not want to finish 
3. secure the bezel or case in a watch case holder, small vise or similar tool to hold it steady 


- you need only a fine grade or grit compound, fine grade sandpaper, metal polish, 
powder cleanser or any paste or cream which contains fine grit 



TEST:


- rub only a small area then wipe off the residue: 

-- if you like the finish, continue
- if the finish is not adequetly dull or matte: use a compound or paste of a _coarser_ grade or grit or use fine sandpaper

- if there are conspicuous scratches: STOP (_do not worry, there is no damage_) 
-- a matte finish should only be dull and not highly reflective. Scratches or lines create a brushed finish, not a matte finish
-- use less pressure or a _finer_ grade or grit and rub the scratches until they are removed



 - you do not need to follow a pattern although it is best to use small, circular motions 

- use a small sponge, cloth or a toothbrush 
- a buffing wheel with metal polishing compound will create a matte finish very easily and quickly: 
-- use either a bench mounted grinder with buffing discs or a Dremel type of tool with buffing attachments

- if you are using a dry powdered cleanser:  create a paste by adding a small amount of water

- apply the compound / paste to a small, dry sponge or cloth

- rub the case or bezel with _firm_ pressure using small circular motions
-- you do not have to be precise. You are not attempting to create lines or a pattern

- occassionally, stop wipe off the residue and inspect the surface: when the surface is suffiently matte or dull, you are done

- clean the parts thoroughly 




--------------------------------------------------------


*Clean the Parts:*

-- always clean the case, bezel and crystal after you brush or matte finish. 
You must remove the very fine residue of metal and grit. 
-- Use a toothbrush with soap and water. (toothbrushes, especially electric models, are excellent for cleaning watch parts, including straps) 

---------------------------------------------------------

Video or Photo Tutorial:

-------- _ this section may be expanded soon_ ---------

_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

*
HANDS: How To Replace and Modify

*
*
Using Seiko / ETA / other brand Hands:*


* you should only purchase hands of the dimensions listed below. These are easier to modify.


- many Seiko and ETA hands are very similar in size to Vostok hands 
-- the mounting hole can be altered to increase or decrease it in size
-- this must be performed precisely or the hand will not fit properly
-- you should practice altering the hole size by buying several cheap hands or used hands

---------------------------------------------------------


*Hand Dimensions: Seiko and ETA 

* 

_Amphibia_ Hands:

- here are the dimensions of the Amphibia hands: use these dimensions as a reference when purchasing hands 
of another brand


* Remember: the first number / dimension is the diameter of the mounting hole: 
-- it is the most important dimension


Hour (H) Hand: _Amphibia_*
H = 1.40 mm* x 8.5 - 9.0mm long -- _Unusual_ _size_:

- Best idea: _buy a 1.5 mm hand and make the hole smaller _

Minute (M): _Amphibia_

- the M hand is a common dimension so you are able to use any brand of hand of this dimension 
- do not use a hand which is longer than about 13mm or it will too wide for the dial

*M = 0.90 mm* x 11.5 mm long -- easy to find as it is a *common size

*
 Second (S) Hand: _ Amphibia_
*S = 0.17 mm* x 10 mm long -- standard Quartz size (although small for Quartz)

*S Hand 'Tube' length: * ________ mm long (----_ I will add this info. soon_ ---- )


- the S hand is a fairly common size, however: it is a size that is more commonly used on _Quartz_ watches and therefore
the mounting 'tube' may not be long enough. (this tiny tube is attached to the hand and fits onto the even smaller second hand 
'wheel' or gear shaft which is located inside the hollow shaft which the Minute hand is attached to). If the length of this mounting tube is not
at least as long as that of the Vostok, you may not be able to properly mount the hand.

***_ it is easiest to only use the original Vostok Amphibia or Komandirskie Second (S) hand since it is 
difficult to __alter the diameter of the mounting tube on the Hand
_

- you can paint the S hand if you prefer a different color



_______________________________________________________________

*Seiko Hands:*


- these hands are used on most of their common models of sport and dive watches
- they are often sold by sellers of Seiko dials and hands for 'Modders' to modify their Seiko watches


- these are the most common sizes for Seiko: 
--you will notice that the mounting hole dimensions are very similar to Amphibia hands


*Seiko:*

H = 1.50 mm ------ _0.10 mm larger_ than Amphibia: must modify to reduce diameter of mounting hole

M = 0.90 mm ------ _Exactly the same size as Amphibia !!: _ no modification required

S = 0.20 mm ------- _0.03 mm larger_ than Amphibia: (use only original Vostok hand)


**** it is best to only use the original Vostok Amphibia or Komandirskie Second (S) hand since it is 
difficult to alter the diameter of the mounting tube on the Second Hand

________________________________________________________________
*

ETA Hands: *

- ETA is a Swiss company which manufactures movements and hands
- there are many hand styles to choose from 
- you must only purchase hands of the correct dimensions

- here are the dimensions of ETA hands which are very similar in dimension to Amphibia hands

*

ETA:*

H = 1.51 mm ------ _0.11 mm larger_ than Amphibia: must modify to reduce diameter of mounting hole

M = 0.91 mm ------ _0.01 mm larger_ than Amphibia: only minor modification required 

S = 0.25 mm ------- _0.08 mm larger_ than Amphibia: (use only original Vostok hand)
 


**** it is best to only use the original Vostok Amphibia or Komandirskie Second (S) hand since it is 
difficult to alter the diameter of the mounting tube on the Second Hand

----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

How To: Modify Seiko or ETA Hands 

------- _this section will be expanded soon_ --------

--- _Photos and Video links will be added soon_ ---



_________________________________________________________________

*

Custom Hand Services:*

*ThePossumKing*: WUS member: send him PM: https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=745258

- he offers hand customizing: he will modify and fit Seiko or ETA hands to your watch

-- you must send him your watch / you must either provide the hands or purchase a set from him / the holes in the hands will be altered / the hands will be installed / your watch will be returned to you

-- $10 USD for modifying the hands and installing them + return shipping

-- you must contact ThePossumKing for cost to purchase hands from him if you do not supply the hands yourself

---------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________

--------------- _this section will be expanded soon_ -------------------

13.* Repair and Maintenance
*

*CRYSTAL:* HOW TO: Remove Scratches
*

*- scratches in the crystal may be removed using plastic polishing compounds, any fine abrasive paste or fine grit sandpaper
-- car headlight polish / scratch remover 
-- toothpaste can be used since it contains a fine grit
-- 'Poly-Watch': is a scratch removal paste for plastic watch crystals. Most watch part supply stores sell it 
-- metal polish such as Brasso is good

*
sandpaper / sanding sponges:*

- 'water-proof' or 'wet - dry' sandapaper: stronger than regular sandpaper / available in finer grades

- sanding sponges: easier to use / easy to rinse with water / much more durable than paper

- 'Micro-Mesh' pads: easy to use / available in very fine grades
-- buy a set or kit: they contain a wide range of grades: coarse to remove scratches and very fine to restore crystal clarity

This is a chart of the common grades of Sandpaper / Sanding Sponges / Micro-Mesh


_ American 
__ European __ Micro-Mesh_220P180-220to remove deep scratches quicklyP600-8001500 to remove deep and moderate scratches600P1000-12001800to remove moderate scratches800P1500-20003200to remove moderate scratches1000P2000-25004000to remove light scratches / for polishing2000P3000to remove light scratches / for polishing>2000>P30006000,8000,
12,000for polishing / to make the crystal completely clear 


---------------------------------------------------------


*How To:
*

Removing scratches is a two part process:

1. Remove scratches using different grades of grit beginning with coarse and ending with fine
 - each successive grade will remove the scratches created by the grade prior

2. Polish to restore the clarity of crystal

*Method:*

1. Remove strap and bezel (see section: _Bezel: How to Replace_)

2. Place watch case in a watch case holder or in a vise (_if using vise: use tape or fabric to protect watch_)

3. Apply tape to watch case at bezel area to prevent scratches when polishing crystal

4. Remove Scratches:

- *begin with the coarse grade:* Do Not use a coarser grade than necessary
-- you will remove too much material and you will have to remove the scratches created 
-- test: begin with a fine grade and try to remove the scratch: if the scratch appears unchanged after 30 sec., use a coarser grade
-- deeper scratches require coarser compound or sandpaper

- always use a circular motion
- always sand the entire surface of the crystal
- Do Not sand only the area of the scratch: if you do, you will create a low / flat spot 
- the crystal will become 'cloudy' or opaque: this is normal. When you use the finer grades, the crystal will begin to clear

- the crystal will become cloudy / opaque: you must rinse watch with water and repeat the process using
successively finer grades of polishing compound or sandpaper 
-- continue the process until all scratches are removed and the crystal is clear


Here is a good tutorial: http://www.stefanv.com/watches/polishing-an-acrylic-watch-crystal.html


*

____________________________________________________

MAINSPRING (BARREL SPRING): How to Repair and Replace 
*

*Replace entire assembly: *

- this is the easiest way to repair a broken spring
- the entire assembly is removed and a new assembly is installed
- the spring itself is not removed from its barrel

HOW TO:

-----------_ information coming soon_ -------------

*Repair the Mainspring:*

- if the tip of the spring breaks, it can sometimes be repaired without replacing the entire spring

HOW TO:

- https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/repairing-vostok-24xx-mainspring-simple-guide-1476841.html

---------- _This section will be expanded soon_ --------------

________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________

-------Russia has often created and continues to create some of the most unique and interesting watches the world has ever seen.

Buy a Russian watch and discover for yourself why many of us enjoy them so much. -------

________________________________________________________________________________
_

* I soon will add photos of cases, dials and other parts.

** I will soon create a guide for the Vostok Komandirskie

________________________________________________________________________________

***Please send me a PM or ask the other members of this Forum if you have any questions or need help buying or modifying a Vostok.

________________________________________________________________________________

-- if anyone has any help, advice or corrections to make to this guide, please send me a PM and I will modify it. _

*
Matt B.*

-----------_Subscribe to this thread: I will be adding updates _---------------------


----------



## joeuk

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

This should become a sticky


----------



## yellowbarleycorn

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Fantastic guide! Thank you Matt.


----------



## joecool

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Excellent work Matt! I also think this should become a sticky


----------



## fi0ran0

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Matt, what a great research piece this is! Thank you for your efforts, such a time saver! I too would love to see this as a sticky.


----------



## Rocat

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

This is very good information for a Russian Vostok novice such as myself. Great job compiling all the information


----------



## tvou88

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Respect!

Sent from my m1 note using Tapatalk


----------



## 1afc

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this.

Always good to have the information in one place.

"Hands" sections will be eagerly awaited.


----------



## no-fi

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Awesome job Matt. Well done.


----------



## azura123

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Thank you for your time to compile all of these information. I would vote to be stickied.


----------



## Minorcollector

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Please sticky this.


----------



## Cybersaber

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Hello

i'm brand new in Vostock watches, i'm still waiting to receive the 2 i've ordered, and your presentation is really complete. Thanks for sharing.

Cyber


----------



## mariomart

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Bravo Matt


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

ttt
.
.
.
----- *If you have information or corrections for this Guide, please send me a PM* -----

-- If you have questions or need help of any sort for Vostok Amphibia or Komandirskie, please send me a PM, or post your questions to the Forum. --

Matt Bourdeau


----------



## JRMTactical

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Very good post Matt! Lots of good information in one place and certainly helps a LOT! 
As an FYI I used to make bezel springs/wires from spring stock and I might do so again sometime in the future. The newer "stock" wires never really suited me personally so I started making them myself when I needed to. Good to see that there is another seller offering them as well!


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



JRMTactical said:


> As an FYI I used to make bezel springs/wires from spring stock and I might do so again sometime in the future. The newer "stock" wires never really suited me personally so I started making them myself when I needed to. Good to see that there is another seller offering them as well!


If you would like to make the springs again and offer them for sale, I can add your name and contact info. to the Guide.

I too am not a fan of the stock copper alloy springs.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
---- If you would like to produce parts for Amphibias or Komandirskie OR if you would like to offer repair or modifying services :

- please send me a PM.

- perhaps I can add your name and contact info. to the 'Guide'.

Matt Bourdeau


----------



## kev80e

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Brilliant information Matt. Tempted to have a go at brushing my scuba dude, always regret buying the shiny one.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



kev80e said:


> Tempted to have a go at brushing my scuba dude, always regret buying the shiny one.


Have a go at it. If you make a mistake, just brush over the area again. If, in the future, you want to restore the original polished finish, simply rub it with progressively finer grades of sandpaper or compound then finish with a fine metal polish.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes with these watches.

Many of us here have modded or repaired our Vostoks and we can help anyone mod or repair their own Vostok.


----------



## infinitesd

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for this guide. Why is this not a sticky yet?


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



infinitesd said:


> Why is this not a sticky yet?


I have asked one of the Moderators to make it a sticky.

I actually have no idea how the system works...

I would like to create a PDF version that people can download. I have no idea how that is done either.


----------



## Chascomm

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



mattbeme said:


> I have asked one of the Moderators to make it a sticky.
> 
> I actually have no idea how the system works...
> 
> I would like to create a PDF version that people can download. I have no idea how that is done either.


I've created a link on the Articles sub-forum back to this thread for the benefit of those who have not yet subscribed.

As for posting a PDF; I think you should be able to attach it (i.e. upload to the forum from your hard-drive) the same as a photo.


----------



## BevoWatch

Thanks so much for putting this together mattbeme. This is awesome and can be very helpful. The good stuff! :-!


----------



## James_

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

"Of course, since the Amphibia is such an affordably priced watch, sometimes problems do occur and some buyers have had 
movements which were not oiled sufficiently or will simply stop several times a day for no apparent reason. 
In most cases, the problem seems to be that the crown needs to be firmly tapped back into the case after setting or the watch 
may stop running. As the movement 'breaks-in', this problem usually seems to disappear. Don't let this stop you from purchasing one;
the recommended sellers of new Amphibias will honor their guarantees and will do what is necessary to solve the problem."

I'm glad you said this. This is what stops me from buying Vostoks because this happened to every one of my previous Vostoks, even the broken in.

They should redesign the whole movement.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



James_ said:


> I'm glad you said this. This is what stops me from buying Vostoks because this happened to every one of my previous Vostoks, even the broken in.
> 
> They should redesign the whole movement.


Yes, these problems need to be eliminated. Vostok is slowly gaining renewed popularity here in the West and if they do not address these problems, their reputation will suffer.

I am an enthusiastic supporter of Vostok but I will not pretend that the watches do not have problems.

The oil / lubrication problem seems to be more rare than the movement stop - stem position problem.

I used the term _'usually disappears'_ because, as you say, the problem does not always disappear.

I wonder if the problem is within the 'keyless works'. Perhaps there is a small part whose surface or bore or tooth is too rough and needs to be polished smooth. These movements, as all lower priced movements, are made predominantly by automated machines. They are assembled by hand, but because of their lower price, the individual parts are not inspected as thoroughly as expensive movements. So, rough and ill fitting parts may be used, causing problems for a few owners.

Please note:  the 2414 and 2409 manual wind movements have an excellent reputation with very few complaints.

I always assemble Amphibia from separate parts, so I can choose which movement I will install. I like to use the 2414 because it has a low price, it is very reliable and is easy to repair. I also like it because it is a manual wind which gives me a more personal 'connection' to my watches since I have to wind them each day.

Vostok administrators do read some of our complaints here at WUS and they do take these complaints seriously. Hopefully they will solve these problems.

Also, it appears that nearly every WUS person who had a problem with their 2415/6 movements, have had success in receiving a replacement or a full refund of their money.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



James_ said:


> "......In most cases, the problem seems to be that the crown needs to be firmly tapped back into the case after setting..."


I will also add that some owners have said that the watch will stop unless the crown is unscrewed slightly or not screwed down too tightly.

This makes me suspect that this particular problem may be in the 'keyless works'.


----------



## slcbbrown

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Just getting interested in the Vostoks and tripped over this thread-- what an outstanding piece of work. Thanks.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



slcbbrown said:


> Just getting interested in the Vostoks and tripped over this thread-- what an outstanding piece of work. Thanks.


You are just the type of person I had in mind when I decided to spend so many hours with this project. It is not yet finished.

I myself prefer to have information that is clear, easy to understand and helpful. This forum has been a great source of help for me.

For the most part, this 'Guide' is a collection of the experience and wisdom of many of the great people here.


----------



## Davide

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Top notch guide!!!!! Thumb up for you.


----------



## kev80e

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



mattbeme said:


> Have a go at it. If you make a mistake, just brush over the area again. If, in the future, you want to restore the original polished finish, simply rub it with progressively finer grades of sandpaper or compound then finish with a fine metal polish.
> 
> Don't be afraid to make mistakes with these watches.
> 
> Many of us here have modded or repaired our Vostoks and we can help anyone mod or repair their own Vostok.


I picked up this Radio Room cheap off pre-loved so thought I'd give brushing a go. I'm a little clumsy and often manage to mess up stuff like this , but it's actually not that difficult. I'm sure others are quicker and get better results but for a first attempt I'm pleased with the results. Anybody considering this but like me afraid of messing up a decent watch, mistakes really are easy to correct. Thanks Matt for this guide and encouraging people like me to have a go.
BEFORE








AFTER


----------



## saturnine

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

For that space between the crystal & the crown, I've seen a fiberglass brush recommended:
Economy Fiberglas Cleaning Brush

I don't yet have one myself, but I'm going to pick one up for this & other tasks.

It may be even better to use it for the whole (top) case as opposed to a scotch pad since it would allow more precision in the brushing pattern.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



kev80e said:


> ....I thought I'd give brushing a go....
> .. it's actually not that difficult.....mistakes really are easy to correct.


Great work!!

It is as good as any we've seen.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



saturnine said:


> For that space between the crystal & the crown, I've seen a fiberglass brush recommended:
> Economy Fiberglas Cleaning Brush
> 
> It may be even better to use it for the whole (top) case as opposed to a scotch pad since it would allow more precision in the brushing pattern.


Yes!

These are Scratch Brushes. I highly recommend them for watch cleaning and repair as they can perform many different tasks.

They are able to reach into very small spaces.

You turn the end cap and the bristles extend or retract to alter the stiffness and extend the reach.

Some hardware stores sell them also.

You can make them yourself :

- take a small bundle of bristles from a scrub brush or wires from a wire brush (steel or brass) 
- insert them into a pin vise (a small hand-held drill chuck)


----------



## jdelcue

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Simply hitting the "Like" doesn't do the OP or this thread justice! There's enough material here for an entire Vostok forum, with multiple stickies built out of just that original thread post. _*0_0*_


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
 *Bezels: Recommendations*

Please see the 'Guide' for more info.

--------------------------------------

*There are no bad quality custom or replacement bezels currently produced.
They are all good, but some are simply better. *_

Generally, the bezels produced in Russia, Europe and the USA are of slightly better quality.
Prices may be slightly higher for these but you may want to consider buying them if you want 
to support manufacturing in the West._

- the bezel market is expanding rapidly since the popularity of modifying Vostoks is also rapidly expanding.
- producers are taking notice of what we like and what we don't like. They are also using some of the best designs
used on Seiko dive watches. This is good news for us! Now is a great moment to begin modding your Vostok.

- pay attention to the threads: _ 'Vostok Mods'_ and _ 'Show Your Amphibias' - _WUS members are now purchasing some of these
new bezels and will post photos and short reviews.

Here are the most highly recommended insert style bezels:

--------------------------------------------------------

*
The 'Premium' bezels:*

- These cost more but you get more. The quality of manufacture is usually of a higher standard.
Most models are thicker, taller and with better and more unique edge knurling. Pers184 in particular, will create your choice of knurling.

*Murphy bezels*
- high quality
- made in America by Dave Murphy
- more expensive than most others
- Dave Murphy will answer all your questions and help you if you have a problem

*pers184: *(WUS member)
- see his photo albums for the bezels he makes
- he can make a custom design for you
- high quality
- made by him in Russia
- do not require a bezel insert because the indices (numbers etc.) are machined into the bezel
- some designs can be painted in your choice of colour
- all are SS (or bronze by request)
- fairly expensive but you save money because you do not need a separate insert.
- you may wait 2-4 months to receive the bezel due to his work-load and time constraints
- these are an excellent choice because you can re-paint some of the models
to change the colour, they are very rugged with no aluminum insert, and some of the designs are very 
unique.

*dr.seikostain:* (ebay)
- designed and sold by an architect in Poland
- high quality
- unique designs such as the wild Tsunami, and long Shark Tooth
- unfortunately models are usually produced in small batches and sell quickly. Sometimes you must wait
several months for new stock to arrive. If a particular model does not appear in his ebay store, you must wait 
for new stock. Send Krystof a message and ask him when he expects to receive them. He is a friendly seller. 
- follow his items on Facebook to see his latest ideas: https://www.facebook.com/one.second.closer

*Matt Brace:* (WUS member / ebay)
- these are 'Clean' or 'Smooth' bezels only
- made by Matt himself in Southern England
- high quality
- excellent customer service

*am-diver: * (ebay / aka: AM-Watches)
- unique angled top
- bezel inserts are custom produced to fit the angled bezel
--_ you must only use am-diver bezel inserts !!_
- high quality
- German designed
- these bezels provide not only a sport / dive watch appearance but also a casual-dress appearance

----------------------------------------
_

*"Intermediate" *_*bezels:*

- these are relatively new in the market place and so the quality and customer experience is not well known.
- they appear to be of high quality with unique designs 
- they also appear to be a good value 
- pay attention to the threads: _ 'Vostok Mods'_ and _ 'Show Your Amphibias' - _WUS members are now purchasing some of these
models and will post photos and short reviews.

*zavar011:* (ebay)

- this seller, based in Israel, is now producing some interesting and unique models.
- all models are now also available in a bronze or brass version 
- look at his 'gear tooth' or 'sprocket' bezel, Shark tooth and the odd but intriguing 'Porthole' bezel.

----------------------------------------

*
Good quality 'budget' bezels: *

*boris_gvb: *(ebay)
- many WUS members really like these
- WUS member ThePossumKing, who does many mods, believes these
are the best bezel for the price and always fit well.
- possibly produced in China

*arkustime:* (ebay)

Other sellers:
- the other bezels being sold on ebay generally receive good reviews in this forum and are 
slowly growing in popularity
- these sellers are listed in the 'Guide' 
- these other bezels are possibly produced in China

- if you need information about the quality of a particular bezel, post your question in the Forum

Package Deal: bezel with pre-installed insert:

- most bezel sellers now have package deals although your choice of insert is limited
- these are a good choice if you want to receive a bezel with insert pre-installed
- you may save some money

-----------------------
*Best advice: *

- only buy parts from sellers recommended in this forum 
- read these threads from beginning to end:

_'Vostok Mods'
'Show Your Amphibias'_

------------------------

The sellers listed in this Guide are recommended by many WUS members. 
There may be a new seller or two which have not been added to the Guide, but may be added in the near future.
I will not recommend a seller until they have received good reviews in this forum.

If you would like opinions of a seller or product not listed in the Guide, please ask us.

I will soon add more info. to the Guide, so you may wish to subscribe to it.

Enjoy your Vostok,

Matt


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*









These are new parts now available for purchase

- the crown is solid Stainless Steel versus the standard crown
which is made of brass with a thin stainless steel cover
-- improved knurling pattern makes it easier to turn

- the Blank Rear Cover can be brought to any engraving service if you want 
a personal custom message or image placed onto it. This would 
create a watch which you can give as a gift

-------------------------------------------------

Sellers:

Meranom: all parts

favinov: White Date Wheel at 6
asap31: White Date Wheel at 6 (only with purchase of a dial with date window at 6)

- it is not known if all parts will be available from sellers beyond Meranom


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*









New bezels from _zavar011_ (ebay - Israel)

- these are Seiko insert bezels: use any Seiko insert made for _SKX007 or 7002
_

- seller is a partner of _saltua2014_ (ebay - Ukraine)
-- the same bezels sold at zavar011 are often sold by saltua2014


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*









New Bezels from zavar011 (ebay - Israel)

- zavar011 and saltua2014 are partners, so _both_ sellers should eventually have them


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
...








Remember: You must buy _only_ Bezel Inserts for Seiko: *SX007 or 7002 
*
(there are other Seiko models of the same size but most often you will 
see only SX007 or 7002 listed by the seller)

The insert must be:

*OD: 38.00 mm 
.ID: 31.50 mm*


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
.







.
These are the _Modern_ cases.

Vintage case dimensions will be posted soon.


----------



## herdingwetcats

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Like everyone else, am astounded and electrified by all the fabulous info U have given us. Many thanks!! So I am passing this on to you in hopes you can get it out: for me, eBay.com doesn't work so well; for instance, I can't get asap31 on it. I asked eBay, and sweet dude confided that often eBay.ca works better; it has for me. Tried this, and he was right.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



herdingwetcats said:


> ..... for me, eBay.com doesn't work so well; for instance, I can't get asap31 on it. I asked eBay, and sweet dude confided that often eBay.ca works better; it has for me. Tried this, and he was right.


Thank you for your kind words.

As a Canadian, I usually use ebay.ca and it works good for me for purchasing Russian watches.

I have noticed that when a seller refuses to ship packages to a particular country, he may not be displayed on ebay for people in that country. 
Unfortunately, one of the best sellers of Vostok watches and parts, zenitar, and another major seller, have decided to stop sending packages to Canada. This has caused these sellers to completely disappear from ebay.ca. If I want to view their items I must use another ebay such as ebay.uk. Of course, I cannot buy the items, but can only view them.


----------



## Hartig

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

I forgot.

Are Amphibia and Komandirskie dials interchangeable?
If i remember correctly Komandirskie dials work in Amphibia cases but I am not sure about the opposite (which is what I am interested in at the moment).
I would like to put a modern Amphibia dial in a somewhat(?) old Komandirskie case, if I can't find a nice Komandirskie dial.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Hartig said:


> Are Amphibia and Komandirskie dials interchangeable?.....


Yes.









No modifications are necessary to the diameter of a dial to install it into the case.
The vintage dials are larger than modern dials but they can be installed into a modern case _without _the need to remove the extra 1 mm.

Vintage Amphibia and Komandirskie watches utilised the 2209 and other 22xx movements. The 'feet' or pegs of these dials do not align with the dial mounting holes of the modern 24xx movements

If you want to install a vintage 22xx dial into a modern Vostok using a 24xx movement:

- you must remove the feet of the vintage dial

There is always a small space between dial and the movement. You must use an adhesive which has the necessary thickness.

- install dial using 'dial dots' or any thin adhesive foam tape which is double - sided. Scotch style double-sided tape must be applied in multiple layers to create necessary thickness.
- _do not _apply 'dial dots' or tape on top of holes or moving parts of the movement


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*









These sets of hands are available separately.

The hands provided with the 'Classic Amphibia' have standard grade luminous paint.

NoctiLumina is brighter and will glow for a longer period of time.

It is assumed that the NoctiLumina hands sold by Meranom are of equal brightness and duration as the SuperLuminova hands sold by favinov.


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*









These sets of hands are available separately.

The hands provided with the 'Classic Amphibia' have standard grade luminous paint.

SuperLuminova is brighter and will glow for a longer period of time.

It is assumed that the SuperLuminova hands sold by favinov are of equal brightness and duration as the NoctiLumina hands sold by Meranom


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.








These Silicon Rubber straps will fit only Amphibia cases which require 22 mm:
090, 100, 110, 150 (SE), 710

Silicon rubber is very strong and completely water-resistant.


----------



## joeuk

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Yes they have made this a sticky and probably a well used and helpful sticky


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
.








JAXA style caseback wrench:

How To: Repair Loose Pins


*1* Many JAXA style caseback wrenches have pins which are excessively loose.
-- the pins will slip when you tighten the caseback or rear cover.

*2 *This is casued by excessive space between the pin holder and the top and bottom covers. 
-- this space must be reduced

*3 *The 'Spacers' or Sleeves must be removed and reduced in height

- it is easier to remove each sleeve, one at a time, grind it shorter, then re-install it
- remove a small amount from one end of each sleeve
- when you have reduced in height all 4 sleeves and have re-installed them: 
test each pin for excessive side to side movement

- if necessary, repeat the process until excessive movement is removed but the pin holders 
continue to move freely when the thumb wheel and handle are rotated.

- if you have made the sleeves too short and the pin holders bind, loosen each bolt and apply oil to each face of
each pin holder. This may help them to move freely.

-- if not, you can disassemble the wrench and remove a small amount of material from each pin holder 
--- to remove the covers you must remove the pins from the pin holders

Tools:

- wrench or socket / ratchet wrench: to remove the bolts
- screwdriver with a flat blade: to remove the bolts 
- file or sandpaper ( 150 - 220 ) or bench grinder / sander 
- oil ( if pin holders bind )


----------



## mattbeme

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
.








An Amphibia Glass Caseback has greater height versus the regular steel caseback.
There are wrenches also with pins which are too short to reach the lock ring when a
regular steel caseback is installed.

The lock ring will not be tightened sufficiently.

It will be necessary to remove a portion of the material from each pin. 
This will allow them to reach the lock ring.

- remove an equal amount of material from each pin
- DO NOT touch or modify the tip of the pins unless the shape of the tips prevents them
from fitting properly to the lock ring. 
- use fine sandpaper or a fine file to remove the sharp edges you have created

Tools:

- file: coarse and fine or dremel type rotary tool or bench grinder / sander


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
*!!! Attention !!! *

If you need to send me a PM, please use this new account: Matt_Bored_O

My original account: mattbeme, must be repaired by the Administrator.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
_*Add to List of Sellers:*_

_New_ Vostoks

------------------------------------

*russian.store* : Russia / _*ebay*_

- good selection

------------------------

*koche-vikto* : Russia / _*ebay*_

- good selection

* koche-vikto has listed most Komandirskies as made of 'Stainless Steel'.
-- this is false: they are Brass with either a chrome or TiN coating on the gold coloured models
(TiN = Titanium Nitride: protective coating)
-- I have recently spoken to him and he has promised to correct this mistake. I believe him as he
has recently corrected the listings for several other models after I spoke to him.

------------------------

*Meranom:* continues to provide the best price, even after shipping cost is added. 
- Dimitry gives you 5 points for each watch you purchase. The points will give you a discount on a
future purchase. 
- use *Coupon Code: WUS2015 *to receive a discount

- the problem with Meranom is the very limited selection of models which are in stock

For Models Not In Stock:

- you can order a model (pre-paid), which could take several months to be produced, 
or you can request notification by email when the model of your choice becomes available.

-------------------------------------

_Sellers will not be listed in this Guide unless they have positive reviews in this forum._
_Sellers who make false statements in their store listings and refuse to make corrections, _ 
_will not be listed in the Guide. _

You can purchase with confidence from any of the sellers listed in this Guide.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.
*re: * seller : * koche-vikto

*There is a ebay seller named: *kojaviktor*:

- this seller is known to use the listings of Vostoks of other sellers
-- this is supicious activity
-- this seller is not recommended

The name is similar to: * koche-vikto* but _no link between them was found _

_koche-vitko_ is a flexible seller. Many of his listings include a 'Best Offer' button and I have had a few conversations with him and he seems eager to accept reasonable offers, especially if you want to buy several. ​


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.














Bezel: 'The.Shark.One' 

seller: dr.seikostain (One.Second.Closer) - ebay

4 styles:

- Polished
- Blasted matte 
- Black IP
- Gold IP

All are 316 Stainless Steel

Inserts: Seiko SKX007 / 7002

Coating:  Black and Gold Vacuum IP coated

- a form of PVD coating
- very durable


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.








*Hands:* 

IgorIV (WUS) : Ukraine:

- hands for Amphibia / Komandirskie
- Igor is also gaining a good reputation for producing custom dials

-- *PRE - ORDER now* --

--- Hands will be AVAILABLE SOON ---

Prices will be announced : but Igor's hands are expected to be considerably more affordable
than yobokies or other hands which can be modified to fit (Seiko, ETA etc.)

- Igor states that these hands will be similar in price to the previous models

- _see information below for styles available now

_
---------------------------------

*Hour & Minute: ( H & M )*

- fit ALL modern / ALL vintage: Amphibia and Komandirskie
(vintage 22xx / modern 24xx movements use the same size hands for H & M)

- stainless steel or brass

- ready to install: no modifications necessary

- all hands are sold with Lume paint applied
-- Igor states: "Effective glow time in the dark is from 8 to 12 hours
Total glow time of the powder until complete attenuation is more than 40 hours"

- you can request hands without lume if you want to apply your own

---------------------

*Seconds: ( S )*

- Igor plans to produce one or more designs 
-- when available, an announcement will be made
--- subscribe to his thread:_ 'Custom Dials and Hands'_

**S* hand size are _different_ for: Modern and Vintage
- Modern: 24xx movement: 0.17 mm 
- Vintage: 22xx movement: 0.20 mm
--- these are common sizes for Quartz watches: most Quartz S hands will fit but must be the correct length 
(see the data in the 'Hands' section of the Guide)








------------------------------------------

Igor's: _'Custom Dials and Hands'_

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/custom-dials-hands-3267474.html

------------------------------------------









*----- Available Now ------
*
- _limited quantity
_(Igor will produce more of these styles soon)
- stainless steel and brass

* all hands are sold with Lume paint applied unless you request hands without lume 
-- Igor states: "Effective glow time in the dark is from 8 to 12 hours
Total glow time of the powder until complete attenuation is more than 40 hours"

$11 USD per set + $4 Worldwide Shipping with Tracking

* this is a special price for these hands only, until they are all sold.
- the price of the new models is expected to be similar. The best price you will find for custom hands.

- shipped from Ukraine

Note: Ukranian Post service is often faster and more reliable than the Russian Post, 
especially for addresses beyond Europe

*------------------------------------------

How To: Order

*
*PRE-ORDER*: hands will be available soon

- Order Form: with list of all hands:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeTcYAv2rKHb5JSMFOVqPfotZEqaTNSrhWiFkaz4sqlhN68Aw/viewform

- Contact Igor: WUS account
https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=266266

-------------------------------------------

- if you purchase hands form Igor, please post photos and a review

* if you have a problem with the hands, do not hesitate to contact Igor and discuss your concerns.
He is willing to listen and willing to improve the designs

Post your photos and review:

1. 'Votok Mods'

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/vostok-mods-1133714.html

2. Igor's Thread: _'Custom Dials and Hands'_

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/custom-dials-hands-3267474.html

-------------------------------------------


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

.







.







.
*Vostok 'Paddle' Hands:* yobokies

These are slightly altered replicas of the hands found on many vintage Amphibia.
'Paddle' hands are very poplular because they are very unique.
This style is also easy to see at night with the generous area of lume.

'yobokies' = 'seiko boy' spelled backward

The seller, yobokies, is Harold in Hong Kong who is well known in the Seiko community for producing bezel inserts and other parts 
for modding Seiko watches.

------------------------------

*Hour & Minute: ( H & M )*

- fit ALL modern / ALL vintage: Amphibia and Komandirskie
(vintage 22xx / modern 24xx movements use the same size hands for H & M)

- ready to install: no modifications necessary

- SuperLuminova C3: one of the brightest lume paint with excellent duration of glow

- silver only
- well polished surface

---------------------

*Seconds: ( S )*

- Seconds hand will fit only 24xx movements which includes all modern Amphibia and Komandirskie 
-- for 22xx movements: if you are careful, you can use a tiny drill bit or similar tool to make the hole larger.

- red or silver

- slightly longer than original Vostok S hand
- the red paint appears to be slightly brighter, and easier to see, than the original Vostok S hand

**S* hand size are _different_ for: Modern and Vintage
- Modern: 24xx movement: 0.17 mm 
- Vintage: 22xx movement: 0.20 mm

--- these are common sizes for Quartz watches: most Quartz S hands will fit but must be the correct length

------------------------------------------









------------------------------------------

*How To: Order *


* you must specify: S Hand: Silver or Red

- you can see all the parts he sells here:

yobokies's Library | Photobucket

- WUS contact
https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=10178

- send him an email

[email protected]


----------



## soulsocket7

Excellent and informative! Under the sellers section, I might include chistopol city. I don't know the particulars, but they sometimes have dials not available on meranom. They also have some different dial/case combinations. I don't think their selection of spare parts is as extensive though. Every once in a while they also stock the 1967 reissue, though, only the stainless banded one with the numbers instead if indices. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for this post.


----------



## saturnine

Has anyone purchased from ritmm540 on eBay?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

saturnine said:


> Has anyone purchased from ritmm540 on eBay?


I have spoken with a few WUS members who have purchased from this seller.
No complaints.

I have purchased a few watches and dials. No problems.

However, recently ritmm540 sold a Amphibia case with a very obviously incorrect crown. 
There were 2 photos of the case: one with the correct crown, the other without.

This is unprofessional but does not appear to be a common occurrence.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

soulsocket7 said:


> ....Under the sellers section, I might include chistopol city....


ChistopolCity:

- online store: chistopolcity.com

- Russia

- good selection of models in stock
- allows you to choose the Vostok bezel for the watch you purchase

_Caution:_

- there have been more than a few complaints that buyers have received a wrong item or defective watch
-- ChistopolCity did not respond to these buyers. No communication.

This is unacceptable.

They state:

_"We are official dealers Vostok Watch Makers Inc. near to Chistopol city"_

- in reality, they are located approximately 500 km north. They do not have a special connection or relationship to 
the factory, as they would like us to believe.

- buyers who had no problems with their item said they were satisfied with the purchase


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Basic Rules for Buyers:

Ratings / Reviews:

- search WUS for the name of the seller: 
-- read about the experiences the members have had with the seller and his items

- WUS Forum communications are very helpful because they are often more elaborate and offer 
more details than the simple ebay feedback system

- read the ebay ratings from previous buyers 
-- look for patterns or recurring problems
-- read the responses given by the seller to complaints. If the responses are unprofessional, impolite
or useless: avoid that seller

- ebay ratings are very brief and often do not give the complete picture of the reputation of a seller
-- many people leave feedback as soon as they receive the item and have not fully tested it 
-- many people also are more thrilled with the fast shipping and so they write a joyful report before they
fully inspect the item

- you must _not _rely completely on ebay ratings

- do not purchase, or purchase with caution, from sellers who_ fail to respond or to provide a sufficient resolution 
_to problems of the customers
- sellers are obligated to provide a refund, repair or other form of reasonable help

- beware of sellers who misrepresent items or fail to disclose important information

Photos:

- photos must be clear and sharp with unadulterated representation of colour

- if the watch is used, there must be at least one photo of the movement 
-- a high magnification photo to allow you to see flaws

- some sellers do not want to show the movement: 
-- perhaps they are hiding flaws / they are lazy / they are inexperienced as a seller of watches 
-- demand a photo of the movement, a good photo

- study each photo carefully and if you have any concerns, contact the seller
-- if they do not respond, or if they do not respond to your satisfaction: do not purchase the item

- if you want to ensure that you will receive the item exactly as it is represented, 
contact the seller and tell them that you want the item _exactly_ as shown

- be polite and respectful in your communications with sellers


Post your questions or concerns to WUS:

- if you want advice or help with a purchase, post your question to the Forum
-- give the link to the item 
-- provide photos

Post Your Review to WUS:

- if you are pleased with your item or have a problem with it: tell us 
- if the seller was helpful, courteous and provided a proper resolution to a problem: tell us
- if the seller or his items are suspicious: tell us


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.









Bronze Bezels:

- bronze is primarily an alloy of Copper (Cu) and Tin (Sn) = CuSn
-- brass is primarily an alloy of Copper and Zinc = CuZn

- it is very durable
- it will develop a nice moderately dark brown patina
-- brass becomes moderately green-brown or red-green-brown
- bronze will not stain your skin or your clothing

- highly polished bronze uaually develops a patina more slowly than brushed bronze

- some folks do not like the patina of either brass or bronze; they prefer the gold colour
-- don't worry: the patina is easy to remove with metal polish or other abrasive paste and a toothbush

- scratches and blemishes are removed easily with metal polish or mild abrasive

- bronze bezels are polished easily to a high gloss, or you can 'brush' the surface 
to create a dull, non glare surface


IP / PVD:

- the gold bezel from dr.seikostain (one.second.closer) is stainless steel with a IP coating
-- this is a type of Physical Vapour Deposition coating, or PVD, which creates a layer of gold 
colour using a complex process
-- it is very durable; much more durable than standard paint 
-- it should not tarnish or change colour with age

When Should You Use a Bronze / PVD Bezel?

- if you have a dial with gold indices or accents, especially dark coloured dials, and gold hands:
-- bronze bezels will help accentuate the indices and hands

- any dark colour dial, especially black, dark blue and dark green

Install one onto a Komandirskie:

- all standard Komandirskie cases are made of brass 
-- the polished gold colour cases have a TiN (Titanium Nitride) coating for protection 
- the silver cases are brass with chrome plating 
-- some owners like to remove the chrome using Hydrochloric / Muriatic acid to 
create a completely brass case

-- install a bronze bezel onto one of these Komandirskie to create a rugged, nautical appearance

* most of these bronze / PVD bezels will fit onto most standard Komandirskie cases

-- the 'Porthole' bezel from zavar011 (#3 - photo) may be slightly too wide for some cases

- if the bezel is too wide for the case, the bezel will hit the crown
This can be fixed in most situations:
-- if you do not need a bezel which rotates, you can create a small bevel on the bottom skirt of the
bezel to create clearance for the crown. You need only to do this where the bezel hits the crown

** if you are not sure of the compatibility of a part, or you need help to install it:

- send a message to the Forum and ask
-- provide as much detail as possible
-- provide photos if possible


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.
This Guide is not an advertisement for sellers or producers. I am not an advertiser. 
I am not an employee of any seller or producer in this Guide. 
I do not receive compensation of any type from the sellers or producers in this Guide.


The number of sellers and parts available is growing. It can be confusing and intimidating.
It is best to have one central Guide to organise all the information. 
Therefore, I believe it is necessary to have photos and information of the watches 
and parts from all the best sellers and producers. 



Matt B.


----------



## taimurkhan

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> .
> This Guide is not an advertisement for sellers or producers. I am not an advertiser.
> I am not an employee of any seller or producer in this Guide.
> I do not receive compensation of any type from the sellers or producers in this Guide.
> 
> 
> The number of sellers and parts available is growing. It can be confusing and intimidating.
> It is best to have one central Guide to organise all the information.
> Therefore, I believe it is necessary to have photos and information of the watches
> and parts from all the best sellers and producers.
> 
> 
> 
> Matt B.


Your knowledge of Vostok Amphibias and the goodwill to share it in great detail with the rest of us is not just convenient, but awesome!

Thank you.

Taimur


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Screws: Movement Spacer / Mounting Ring















- there are 2 sizes which are used interchangeably
- they are of very similar size

- the receiving holes are of the large size only, but the small screw 
installs easily with excellent hold

- sellers of Vostok parts may sell the smaller size only or both

- 'favinov' appears to sell the small size, but may have access to the large size

- if you want to purchase screws from a watch part supplier, look for the 
large size

- 0.85 mm thread diameter should install also without problems

- any standard thicknesses of the head / top is acceptable

- do not use screws which are shorter than what is stated here 

- if you have the small screws, do not worry: many Vostok owners, myself included,
have these and do not appear to experience problems


----------



## SAB314

Great info!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SAB314

I'm buying one on eBay today.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave_Hedgehog

Does anybody know the dimensions of the inserts in Meranom's SE bezels?


----------



## arkustime

Landing dimensions, like all amphibians


----------



## pl39g

Excellent guide. Very informative an easy to understand. Thank you for the post.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
I have received a message from AM-Watches / AM-Diver concerning the information I have written in this Guide.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Matt,

we were very pleased to see that we are mentioned by you in "A Guide", thank you very much!

I am writing to ask you to correct, if possible, some details:

1. We are listed as ebay sellers only (counter-alphabetically, at the end). 
This is, in principle, correct, but *our main market is our online shops, *
all well known to WUS members:* am-watches.com, am-diver.com and am-diver.de*

We are _official importers of Vostok production to EU_ with _all parts except bezels and straps being produced at Chistopol Watch Factory. _
Our trademarks "am-watches" and "am-diver" are officially registered.

2. Our _bezels are not compatible with Seiko inserts_.
They are _produced in Germany _and all designs are patented in Germany.

3. The* coupon code is valid only for am-diver.com online store.*

I would be grateful to you if you consider modifying the information provided in that thread.

Kind regards,
Tanja

----------------------------------------------------
_I have added the bold letters and italics _

I am currently unable to correct the main body of the Guide on page 1.

When the Guide is complete, I will create a PDF version to download.
I will make all necessary corrections to this final version.

Matt B.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
In a previous post I had written that the ebay seller: koche-vikto, was listing the Komandirskies he sells
as 'Stainless Steel'.

I had contacted him several times to report this error and he assured me that the listings would be corrected.

Several listings at that time were corrected.

However, it appears again that all the listings for his Komandirskies are using this false information.

I don't know the reason for this error but I think that there will be buyers who are unaware of the chrome plated brass case and believe that 
they will receive a stainless steel case.

There is a temptation to list a chrome plated brass watch as 'stainless steel'.
Many people prefer stainless.

I do not want to condemn this seller or turn people away from his store.
His prices are good and there are some good remarks about him in this forum.

Is the seller deliberately misleading people ?

As with any seller: be careful, research the ratings and demand the seller correct any problem you have with their product or service.



------------------------------------------------------
Here are excerpts from one of his current listings:

Vostok Komandirskie

Item specifics

Case Material: Stainless Steel
 
_Accuracy and reliability, beauty and functionality withstood the test of time and are the secret of their popularity. If earlier shockproof, dustproof, and waterproof watch case was manufactured mainly from stainless steel or brass, but now mostly it's only brass.....
__

__Features:_- Case Stainless steel

----------------------------------------------------------------

-- this listing is confusing for those who are not familiar with Komandirskie. 
He says 'mostly it's only brass' but twice lists it as 'Stainless Steel'.

​


----------



## saturnine

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> In a previous post I had written that the ebay seller: koche-vikto, was listing the Komandirskies he sells
> as 'Stainless Steel'.
> 
> I had contacted him several times to report this error and he assured me that the listings would be corrected.
> 
> Several listings at that time were corrected.
> 
> However, it appears again that all the listings for his Komandirskies are using this false information.
> 
> I don't know the reason for this error but I think that there will be buyers who are unaware of the chrome plated brass case and believe that
> they will receive a stainless steel case.
> 
> There is a temptation to list a chrome plated brass watch as 'stainless steel'.
> Many people prefer stainless.
> 
> I do not want to condemn this seller or turn people away from his store.
> His prices are good and there are some good remarks about him in this forum.
> 
> Is the seller deliberately misleading people ?
> 
> As with any seller: be careful, research the ratings and demand the seller correct any problem you have with their product or service.



I bought a Komandirskie from this seller because the listing had a particular bezel I wanted and could not find elsewhere. The bezel received was different than was pictured in the listing; however, koche-vikto resolved the matter quickly & to my satisfaction. I would buy from them again with the caveat to verify details prior to purchase.


----------



## VWatchie

Quote from the first post on this thread:

_"In most cases, the problem seems to be that the crown needs to be firmly tapped back into the case after setting or the watch 
__may stop running."
_
I've had some stopping problems with one of my 2415 driven Amphibans (SE 710555S) and have been looking for a solution. However, I'm pretty new to mechanical/automatic watches and I guess that's why I don't understand what it means to _"firmly tap back the crown into the case"_. The way I see it all I can do is screw down the crown and hope for the best, no? If someone could elaborate or explain this in more detail I'd be really happy.

Anyway, for the first time in my life I removed the crown/stem from the movement yesterday but I was (at first) unable to put it back into place. I was able to screw down the crown and wind the watch but trying to set the time the stem would come off by itself (_very frustrating!_). Eventually, I pinched the stem from inside the case and pressed it into the movement while also pressing and releasing the release button a few times. That appears to have fixed the problem and the crown/stem now sits where it should and works properly. Phew! :roll:

Since yesterday the movement seems to be running just fine (knock on wood)... Anyway, I'd really like to understand what it means to _"firmly tap back the crown into the case"? Thanks!_


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24 Hours said:


> Quote from the first post on this thread:
> 
> _"In most cases, the problem seems to be that the crown needs to be firmly tapped back into the case after setting or the watch
> __may stop running."...........
> _
> I've had some stopping problems with one of my 2415 driven Amphibans (SE 710555S) and have been looking for a solution.........
> 
> ...... I'd really like to understand what it means to _"firmly tap back the crown into the case"? Thanks!_


Some owners have reported that when they have a Amphibia which suffers from the mysterious 'stopping' problem, they are able to fix it by unscrewing the crown and pulling it out to the time setting position. After setting to the correct time, they will tap or bang the watch down onto a hard surface, crown down.
Then, the crown is screwed down as normal.

Sometimes this fixes the problem permanently, sometimes it solves nothing.

We don't know exactly why this may sometimes fix the problem.

However, there appears to be some units with a possible problem in the 'keyless works'.
This is the system of gears and sliding levers, activated by the stem, which engage the winding system and the time setting system.

Also, some units have 'reverser / reversing wheels' which may seize permanently or occasionally.
Most likely the clutch mechanism in one of the wheels seizes and this can cause the entire movement to stop.

So, if either of these problems cause an automatic Vostok movement to stop, it may be possible to re-start the movement
if the watch is tapped sharply. If the problem is in the keyless works, then it seems reasonable to assume that by giving the crown
a quick tap, the offending part in the keyless works may be knocked back into its correct position or made free again.

However, if a reversing wheel clutch is seized, this may not free it.
The wheel will have to be replaced or a very small amount of the correct oil may possibly free it and possibly prevent seizure in the future.

---- Only Vostok _Automatics_ are affected ----

2409 and 2414 Manual units do not appear to be affected by these problems.


----------



## VWatchie

Thank you very much Matt_Bored_O for this explanation! So I take it that we actually tap or bang the head of the crown onto a hard surface and thereby - with high velocity - shove the stem back into the movement (as far as it goes as the winding crown tube will prevent the stem from going all the way into the movement)? Please bear with me for being so winded about this, but if I'm going to try it I want to make sure I got it right.

Anyone who actually tried this? What's you experience? Thank you!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24 Hours said:


> So I take it that we actually tap or bang the head of the crown onto a hard surface and thereby - with high velocity - shove the stem back into the movement (as far as it goes as the winding crown tube will prevent the stem from going all the way into the movement)?
> 
> Anyone who actually tried this? What's you experience? Thank you!


Yes, your understanding of the 'method' is correct.

I have tried this with a Amphibia that was stopping occasionally, but it did not help.

There are a few in the forum who have used this odd 'technique'. Hopefully they will read this and respond.

Since the time I wrote of that method, we have had a few more discussions in the forum concerning the problem of seizure.

In my previous post, I mentioned our greater understanding of the possible causes.

I now would not recommend this particular method.

It now appears that few people solve the problem in this manner.

Also, if the crown is tapped with too much force against the threaded case tube, the threads of the crown may be damaged.
The case tube is titanium and therefore is of a harder metal than the crown, regardless if the new crowns are made of stainless steel. 
So, the case tube threads would most likely not be damaged.

I included initially this strange method or 'repair' because it was the only repair mentioned in the forum.

I would recommend only to remove the stem and re-install it using tweezers to push the stem fully into the movement ensuring that it engages fully.
You will hear a slight 'click' when it seats properly.

If the movement seizure is caused by a problem in the 'keyless works', re-installing the stem may help. It may also do nothing to help.

If the problem is seizure of a Reversing Wheel, then a sharp tap against the case may free it. It may also not free it.
The repair is to replace the seized Reversing Wheel. 
Lubricating it may free it and prevent future seizure.

Currently, there is clear answer for the problem IF the Reversing Wheels are not seized.
The problem may then possibly be in the keyless works.

Currently, there is no proven permanent repair known for this. If there is, it has not been discussed in the forum.

Here is the most recent discussion:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/why-do-vostok-amphibian-automatics-fail-3597122.html


----------



## StretfordEnd

Where can I buy a clean bronze bezel?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

StretfordEnd said:


> Where can I buy a clean bronze bezel?


Sellers are listed in the main part of the Guide on page 1 of this thread.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Yes, your understanding of the 'method' is correct.
> I would recommend only to remove the stem and re-install it using tweezers to push the stem fully into the movement ensuring that it engages fully.
> You will hear a slight 'click' when it seats properly.


Again, thank you very much Matt_Bored-O, much appreciated!

As I didn't want to risk damaging the watch, I actually - and spontaneously - did what you describe and recommend in the quote (see my first post on this topic). Pressing in the stem into the movement using my watch tweezers was actually an act of desperation as I couldn't get the stem to fully attach in other way. I can report that my beloved Vostok Amphibia SE 710555S has been running fine since (knock on wood). Of course, I can't know for sure it has fixed the problem permanently. Only time will tell but I would't be surprised if it did the trick. :-!


----------



## VWatchie

24 Hours said:


> (---) Only time will tell but I would't be surprised if it did the trick. :-!


I'm afraid this morning the movement had stopped again. It would seem that when it stops it always happens somewhere around 08:40. Oh well, maybe this is my cue from the watch gods it's about time I learn how to change a watch movement, and fortunately I should be able to cope with the cost.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24 Hours said:


> .... the movement had stopped again.
> 
> .....it always happens somewhere around 08:40.


I suspect there is a bad tooth or debris on the 'Hour wheel' (gear) which controls the movement of the Hour hand.

When this bad spot engages with the mechanism, the bad tooth or debris prevents turning of the wheel and so the Hour hand and the 
movement stops.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> I suspect there is a bad tooth or debris on the 'Hour wheel' (gear) which controls the movement of the Hour hand.
> 
> When this bad spot engages with the mechanism, the bad tooth or debris prevents turning of the wheel and so the Hour hand and the
> movement stops.


Thanks for the tip! I've more or less made up my mind to change the movement. I usually shop my Russian watches from Meranom.com and their 2415 movement looks really nice ($39.90) with its decorated oscillating weight and golden screws and wheels. Once replaced I'll take a closer at the 'Hour wheel' (gear) and see what I possibly can do about it. If I can fix it I guess I'll be looking into buying a case, dial, hands, strap, and so on for it... :-d

Anyway, I'll be needing a few more tools before I go ahead, like a hand remover and a few decent screw drivers. Speaking of tools, where could I find a good on-line shop for watch tools in Europe? Have been looking at this shop.


----------



## dmnc

24 Hours said:


> Thanks for the tip! I've more or less made up my mind to change the movement. I usually shop my Russian watches from Meranom.com and their 2415 movement looks really nice ($39.90) with its decorated oscillating weight and golden screws and wheels. Once replaced I'll take a closer at the 'Hour wheel' (gear) and see what I possibly can do about it. If I can fix it I guess I'll be looking into buying a case, dial, hands, strap, and so on for it... :-d
> 
> Anyway, I'll be needing a few more tools before I go ahead, like a hand remover and a few decent screw drivers. Speaking of tools, where could I find a good on-line shop for watch tools in Europe? Have been looking at this shop.


Cousins UK have everything and if you're outside the UK it all just got cheaper.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24 Hours said:


> ....... made up my mind to change the movement.
> 
> I usually shop my Russian watches from Meranom.com and their 2415 movement looks really nice ($39.90) with its decorated oscillating weight and golden screws and wheels.


I am sorry to disappoint you: Most probably you will receive the _standard_ 2415 and _not_ the beautiful example shown at Meranom.

That decorated unit is a special edition and Meranom does not sell it separately, AFAIK.
I am sure that it would sell for more than $39.90.

In the description of each movement it is written:

_"Appearance and specification may be different from the ones shown in the photo."_


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Reversing Wheels: 


Vostok automatic such as Amphibia or Komandirskie K35 :

Some units experience a failure of one of the Reversing Wheels.
These gears contain a clutch designed to engage and disengage very quickly as the rotor (oscillating weight)
swings around when you wear the watch.

A few owners report that their Vostok stops completely or only occasionally.

Some of these owners have discovered that the problem was caused by the seizure of one of the Reversing Wheels.
The clutch had locked and could not disengage.

Symptoms:

- the watch will stop : either occasionally or completely
- the rotor (oscillating weight) may (or may not) spin very fast when you attempt to wind the watch manually
-- you may hear the sound of the rotor spinning or see it spin if you remove the case back cover 
- if you remove the case back cover and attempt to move the rotor manually, you should see one or both 
Reversing Wheels fail to turn. They may also resist turning and you will feel resistance against the rotor. 
-- reversing wheels which are functioning normally will not apply resistance against the movement of the rotor
and they will turn freely in both directions.

Repair:

It is possible that the application of a quality watch oil such as Moebius 9010, can free the clutch and allow it to 
function temporarily or perhaps indefinitely. 
Only a very small quantity of oil is required.

However,  it is probable that you must _replace _the wheel.









photo: Meranom
- rotor (oscillating weight) has been removed


Reversing Wheel Clutch








photo: mine
- the top cover has been removed

1. Jewel Roller / Bearing 
2. Centre Hub
3. Ramp


When the rotor spins, a small gear under the rotor turns the reversing wheels.
If the wheel in the photo is turned clock-wise, the disc shaped roller jewels move up the 'ramps'.
Notice that the ramps are not straight but curve slightly toward the centre.
This causes the roller jewels to lock against the centre hub which then turns the shaft and pinion underneath.
This pinion turns the winding gear train which winds the Mainspring.

When the wheel turns counter clock-wise, the roller jewels move down the ramps to the position in the photo.
The clutch is now disengaged or un-locked.

If one or more of the jewels locks against the centre hub and cannot un-lock or disengage, the entire wheel will become
locked. This is a seizure of the clutch and wheel.

The entire wheel (gear) and clutch system is replaced as a complete unit.
It is not necessary or advised to replace only the roller jewels or the separate tooth gear / wheel.

Sellers:

Meranom: online store (Russia)

- now sells separately the Reversing Wheels
- they are not sold as pairs; only individually
- look in the sections: "_Movements_" and _"Spare Parts"_

favinov: ebay (Russia)

- they are not sold as pairs; only individually
- search: "_First Double Wheel_"

I recommend to purchase 2 or more.

It is best to have one or more spare wheels for possible future repairs, especially if you own more than one Vostok automatic.


----------



## saturnine

24 Hours said:


> Anyway, I'll be needing a few more tools before I go ahead, like a hand remover and a few decent screw drivers. Speaking of tools, where could I find a good on-line shop for watch tools in Europe? Have been looking at this shop.


If you are on a budget, I recommend The AF Swiss individual pieces. So, so much better than the cheap sets; though I bought an ultra cheap set for the pouch.
https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/af-swiss-stainless-steel-18978a?code=S1512E
They have a nice heft to them, a hexagonal head so they won't roll around with evenly & cleanly machined blades. They should accept higher grade replacement blades later should you choose. Start with 0.60mm(Pink), 0.08mm(yellow), 1.00mm(black), 1.20 mm(red) & buy others as necessary.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> I am sorry to disappoint you: Most probably you will receive the _standard_ 2415 and _not_ the beautiful example shown at Meranom.
> 
> That decorated unit is a special edition and Meranom does not sell it separately, AFAIK.
> I am sure that it would sell for more than $39.90.
> 
> In the description of each movement it is written:
> 
> _"Appearance and specification may be different from the ones shown in the photo."_


Oh, I completely missed that disclaimer, thanks! Anyway, I wasn't really planning on a glass case back so I guess I'm not too disappointed, although it would have been nice, especially at that price point. I was lucky to get one of the AMPHIBIAN SE 020678S and it has a few of those golden parts and the decorated oscillating weight. It looks really great! :-!


----------



## VWatchie

dmnc said:


> Cousins UK have everything and if you're outside the UK it all just got cheaper.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll make sure to check it out! So I guess it got cheaper thanks to BREXIT! Thank you Nigel Farage (who BTW has just recently been on a visit to Sweden)! ;-)


----------



## VWatchie

Thank you Matt_Bored_O for the "Reversing Wheels" article. Very informative and interesting reading indeed! I'm pretty sure my 2415 movement doesn't suffer from the symptoms you list but I'll definitely take another look and report back should I indeed have faulty reversing wheels.

Browsing through the Amphibian spare part section at meranom.com I had noticed that reversing wheel and wondered how come that particular part was listed. Guess now I know! ;-)


----------



## VWatchie

saturnine said:


> If you are on a budget, I recommend The AF Swiss individual pieces. So, so much better than the cheap sets; though I bought an ultra cheap set for the pouch.
> https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/af-swiss-stainless-steel-18978a?code=S1512E
> They have a nice heft to them, a hexagonal head so they won't roll around with evenly & cleanly machined blades. They should accept higher grade replacement blades later should you choose. Start with 0.60mm(Pink), 0.08mm(yellow), 1.00mm(black), 1.20 mm(red) & buy others as necessary.


Thank you very much for the advice, much appreciated! I'll take a good look at them, and I guess the sizes you mention will be suitable for the Vostok screws!?


----------



## dmnc

Deleted: Misquote


----------



## dmnc

24 Hours said:


> I'll make sure to check it out! So I guess it got cheaper thanks to BREXIT! Thank you Nigel Farage (who BTW has just recently been on a visit to Sweden)! ;-)


At least someone is getting something good from it all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## saturnine

24 Hours said:


> Thank you very much for the advice, much appreciated! I'll take a good look at them, and I guess the sizes you mention will be suitable for the Vostok screws!?


Yes, Vostoks are the only watches I have done any serious work on to date. I believe the 1mm fits the rotor screw - which is the largest screw in the movement to my knowledge. Either the 0.6 or 0.8mm fit the dial screw, which is one of the smallest.

I obtained those 4 sizes from an article regarding screwdrivers.
https://www.eternaltools.com/blog/complete-guide-to-watchmakers-screwdrivers
And I must have read elsewhere to add the 0.6mm pink to the list of essential sizes & ditch the 1.4mm.

Regarding hand removers, I went for levers for the manual nature of them and so that nothing obstructs my view during the operation. I've been happy with these for the cost; very easy to use:
2pcs Metal Precision Watch Hand Remover Pin Lever Replace Watchmaker Repair Tool | eBay


----------



## VWatchie

dmnc said:


> At least someone is getting something good from it all.


_*WARNING OT (and I won't repeat it)!*_

Actually, I'm in deep admiration of the British people who had the backbone to vote in favor for leaving the union and thereby paving the way for the other nations within the EU (now reduced to mere "member states"). I myself have completely lost confidence in this project and will - if the opportunity comes - work for a SWEXIT.

I'm positively convinced the British people - in the long run - made the right decision!


----------



## VWatchie

saturnine said:


> Yes, Vostoks are the only watches I have done any serious work on to date. I believe the 1mm fits the rotor screw - which is the largest screw in the movement to my knowledge. Either the 0.6 or 0.8mm fit the dial screw, which is one of the smallest.
> 
> I obtained those 4 sizes from an article regarding screwdrivers.
> https://www.eternaltools.com/blog/complete-guide-to-watchmakers-screwdrivers
> And I must have read elsewhere to add the 0.6mm pink to the list of essential sizes & ditch the 1.4mm.
> 
> Regarding hand removers, I went for levers for the manual nature of them and so that nothing obstructs my view during the operation. I've been happy with these for the cost; very easy to use:
> 2pcs Metal Precision Watch Hand Remover Pin Lever Replace Watchmaker Repair Tool | eBay


Wow,thank you so much for this Saturnine! So far, my watch tool shopping has left much to be desired so I will definitely follow you advice! :-!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.
.

*Repair and Maintenance:*


*How a Vostok is Produced: *






-- Dmitry of Meranom can be seen in the video

------------------------

*Watch Repair Techniques for all mechanical watches*

videos:

Mark Lovick: YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/user/jewldood

- his videos are easy to understand, clear explanations and good quality video image 
- he is developing a watch repair course. Available soon.

*---------------------


How To: Service Vostok 22xx and 24xx *

- disassemble
- assemble
- clean
- lubricate



Most of the videos below are produced by _Ratfaced Git_ (WUS member) 
- excellent series of videos. Recommended by many WUS members

- _other_ Russian / Soviet movements are found also at his YouTube site:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOYdWxkj-MVAHaYnrQyABow/videos


------------------------

*
2209 *- manual wind* - *_without_ Calendar

videos:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOYdWxkj-MVAHaYnrQyABow/search?query=Vostok+2209


- see also: _2214 _
- it is identical except: 
-- uses Hand pinion wheels of different heights 
-- there is no Date (Calendar) Wheel and its required parts

------------------------


*2214 *- manual wind* - *_with _Calendar

videos:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOYdWxkj-MVAHaYnrQyABow/search?query=Vostok+2214

------------------------


*2409* - manual wind* - *_without _Calendar*
* 
videos:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOYdWxkj-MVAHaYnrQyABow/search?query=Vostok+2409


- see also: _2414a _
- it is identical except: 
-- uses Hand pinion wheels of different heights 
-- there is no Date (Calendar) Wheel and its required parts

------------------------

*2414a *- manual wind* - *_with _Calendar


Forum tutorials:https://www.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-caliber-2414-service-notes-very-long-many-pics-226237.html

videos:




 

-----------------------------


*2415b *automatic - _without _Calendar

videos:










 

- see also: _2416b _
- it is identical except: 
-- uses Hand pinion wheels of different heights 
-- there is no Date (Calendar) Wheel and its required parts

------------------------

*2416b* automatic* - *_with_ Calendar*
*

Forum tutorials:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/sunday-afternoon-vostok-servicing-3745978.html#post35388250 

https://www.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-2416b-service-notes-240805.html


Spanish forum tutorial: it is written in Spanish 

http://www.hablemosderelojes.com/forum/showthread.php?75321-Vostok-2416b-Notas-de-Servicio-%28Komandirskie-K-34%29


videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOYdWxkj-MVAHaYnrQyABow/search?query=Vostok+2416


-------------------------------------------------------------

*- *_more guides will be added to this section: subscribe to the entire 'Guide' to receive notifications _

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note:

- *vintage units: 2209 and 2214* : these are very similar to the modern 24xx units
-- some of the movement parts are _not_ interchangeable between the vintage and modern units: 
if you must replace a part and you need more information please post your questions to the Russian Forum or to this Guide

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

- _if you find errors or a link or photo in this Guide which does not function, please send me a PM

_


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## saturnine

24 Hours said:


> Oh, I completely missed that disclaimer, thanks! Anyway, I wasn't really planning on a glass case back so I guess I'm not too disappointed, although it would have been nice, especially at that price point. I was lucky to get one of the AMPHIBIAN SE 020678S and it has a few of those golden parts and the decorated oscillating weight. It looks really great! :-!


If you really want a nicer rotor:
Vostok 24 Caliber Watch Movement Gilded Oscillating Weight Meranom.com


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## VWatchie

July 2015 I was casually browsing eBay for Amphibians when all of a sudden I saw an ad for the SE 710555S. After two seconds I had made up my mind to win the auction at (almost) any cost, and I did. At this time I had never heard of the SE Amphibians or meranom.com selling these SE watches. When the watch finally arrived I was extremely pleased and it immediately became my favourite watch. It's a watch that I feel confident wearing in any situation. It also sparked an increased interest in automatic and mechanical watches and the inexplicable desire to tinker with them.

This tinkering desire unfortunately led me to tinker with my SE 710555S. I really should have bought a used Amphibian with a 2415 movement to play around with first but I didn't. After all, how hard could it be!? :think: Although I was very careful when playing watchmaker I can't help but suspect it was this tinkering with all the wrong tools and wrong lighting (I did make a few mistakes) that eventually led to the problems that developed. All of a sudden it would stop running.

The problem could very likely be that which Matt_Bored_O suggested, i.e. a _"bad tooth or debris on the 'Hour wheel' (gear) which controls the movement of the Hour hand"_, or a problem with the reversing wheels. Now, I haven't yet looked into the first suggestion, but I decided to replace the reversing wheels and give it a try, which I did. However, after about 24 hours or so the movement would stop again. Eventually I will try to investigate the hour wheel, but for now I decided to replace the entire movement. More about this a bit later in this post!

One thing I learned while replacing the reversing wheels was this. When the new reversing wheels were in place and I had mounted the rotor on the rotor bridge I noticed that the rotor didn't spin quite freely. I then discovered that the reversing wheels weren't aligned on the same plane which resulted in the gears not connecting evenly. At first this really puzzled me as I had been very meticulous during every step of the reassembly. So, back to disassembly! However, as I stared to unscrew the three screws holding the rotor bridge the reversing wheels suddenly popped into place by themselves. Obviously one needs to make sure the three screws holding the rotor bridge are screwed down evenly by turns. After this, the rotor revolved freely without hooking up. Here's an image to complement what I'm trying to say:









While I'm at it; someone new to this hobby might also appreciate to learn that the crown should be pulled out to the hand setting position before pressing down the crown release button (a toothpick makes a good tool for this) and pulling the crown out of the movement. I believe I learned this from saturnine (or possibly a post on WUS or from some YouTube video). If you don't do it like this it supposedly messes up the keyless works (I still have to learn what that is exactly) making it (very?) difficult to put the crown stem back into the movement. Now, whether this is really true I wouldn't know as I haven't tried to do it in any other way.









Another thing I've learned is that when shoving back the crown stem into the movement it helps to first turn it 45 degrees so that the long side edge of the rectangular block at the end of the stem points upwards. I don't know how much sense that makes but I'll try to illustrate it with some pictures below. Finally, if necessary, pinch the stem from the inside of the case with a tweezers and drag it a bit further into the movement until it clicks in.
















So, back to replacing the movement: Since the 710555S is driven by a 2415 movement I mistakenly thought all I would have to do would be to buy a new 2415 movement (USD $39.90), transfer the dial and hands to it, and mount it in the watch case. Well, it turned out the SE hands won't fit a vanilla 2415 movement. Dang! I tried to get Meranom to supply me a new or used SE 2415 movement but never got a reply about it. However Dmitry at Meranom as well as Matt_Bored_O suggested I should _"move the pinions from the SE to the new 2415"_ (the pinions being the only difference). However, at this stage of my "watchmaker career" I didn't feel I was up to the task. So, I resolved to Matt_Bored_O's next suggestion; to buy hands from IgorIV (you can see some of IgorIV's custom dials and hands here) and mount them on the vanilla 2415 movement, and that's what I did. I also replaced the crown with a stainless steel crown from Meranom as I felt it better matched the brushed bezel (and for the fun of it too!).

Fitting the new hands proved a daunting task. I can't remember how many times I had to start all over. The really difficult part was fitting the minutes hand. It would constantly crash into the hour hand and eventually I made the mistake of bending the minute hand slightly upwards wrongly believing it would help (which it certainly didn't!). When I finally got the hour hand and minute hand working together the seconds hand got stuck on the minute hand. As I said, I can't remember how many times I had to fit, remove, and refit the hands. Eventually I got it all working but the margin between the minutes hand and the seconds hand is so small I can barely see it with my 20x magnifier. Anyway, as far as I can tell the hands are now revolving perfectly!

The original 710555S hands are sword shaped and I did order two pairs of those from IgorIV; gilded and silver. However, I also order a differently shaped set of hands which I eventually decided to use. I figured that since the watch now must be considered a mod (having a slightly different movement) I might as well mod the hands as well, and I am very pleased with the end result.

Overall I was very pleased with IgorIV's hands. The only problem was a bit of debris of something (lume?) on them. Anyway, this was easily removed as demonstrated at the beginning of this video by Dan (Ratfaced git). As a matter of fact my hands looked exactly like those seen in the video.

Finally I'd like to thank Matt_Bored_O for his support and sharing his knowledge. Also, thank you IgorIV for the beautiful hands. Last but not least an especially big and warm thank you to saturnine who's shared tons of information and links about Vostok watches, tools, and more. Without your help comrades I'm not sure I would have been able to succeed! So, Огромное спасибо!


----------



## saturnine

24 Hours said:


> ...Another thing I've learned is that when shoving back the crown stem into the movement it helps to first turn it 45 degrees so that the long side edge of the rectangular block at the end of the stem points upwards. I don't know how much sense that makes but I'll try to illustrate it with some pictures below. Finally, if necessary, pinch the stem from the inside of the case with a tweezers and drag it a bit further into the movement until it clicks in.


I find it easier to use tweezers or a toothpick to wedge against the inside of the case & movement on the opposite side of the stem in order to push the movement closer to the stem & you will hear the good old Vostok click when the stem seats properly.



24 Hours said:


> Fitting the new hands proved a daunting task. I can't remember how many times I had to start all over. The really difficult part was fitting the minutes hand. It would constantly crash into the hour hand and eventually I made the mistake of bending the minute hand slightly upwards wrongly believing it would help (which it certainly didn't!). When I finally got the hour hand and minute hand working together the seconds hand got stuck on the minute hand. As I said, I can't remember how many times I had to fit, remove, and refit the hands. Eventually I got it all working but the margin between the minutes hand and the seconds hand is so small I can barely see it with my 20x magnifier. Anyway, as far as I can tell the hands are now revolving perfectly!


Indeed they can be tricky - see why I suggested before photos to help you align? I always thought that's how setting all watch hands were until I took apart an Invicta with a Seiko NH35A. Those hands set easily the 1st time & were perfectly parallel to each other, no further adjustment necessary. But hey, Vostoks are more interesting.



24 Hours said:


> I also order a differently shaped set of hands which I eventually decided to use. I figured that since the watch now must be considered a mod (having a slightly different movement) I might as well mod the hands as well, and I am very pleased with the end result.


What you installed on your SE are called Cathedral hands, FYI.



24 Hours said:


> Overall I was very pleased with IgorIV's hands. The only problem was a bit of debris of something (lume?) on them. Anyway, this was easily removed as demonstrated at the beginning of this video by Dan (Ratfaced git). As a matter of fact my hands looked exactly like those seen in the video.


That's a nice tip, thank you.



24 Hours said:


> Finally I'd like to thank Matt_Bored_O for his support and sharing his knowledge. Also, thank you IgorIV for the beautiful hands. Last but not least an especially big and warm thank you to saturnine who's shared tons of information and links about Vostok watches, tools, and more. Without your help comrades I'm not sure I would have been able to succeed! So, Огромное спасибо!


Varsågod!


----------



## jure17

Hello everyone!
I'm a big fan of 24 hour dial watches and of course Vostok Watches.

In principle, I like Komandirskie 350, but do I not like their dials.

Does anyone know where I can get 24 hour dials to match Vostok 2431 mechanisms in Komandirskie 350.
Tnx!


----------



## VWatchie

saturnine said:


> I find it easier to use tweezers or a toothpick to wedge against the inside of the case & movement on the opposite side of the stem in order to push the movement closer to the stem & you will hear the good old Vostok click when the stem seats properly.


Your method sounds more controlled. I'll ponder your instruction again the next time I need to fit the crown (and can see it in front of me). Thanks!



saturnine said:


> Indeed they can be tricky - see why I suggested before photos to help you align? I always thought that's how setting all watch hands were until I took apart an Invicta with a Seiko NH35A. Those hands set easily the 1st time & were perfectly parallel to each other, no further adjustment necessary. But hey, Vostoks are more interesting.


As a matter of fact setting the SE sword hands (on the SE movement, of course) were a lot easier. I don't know why. Maybe I was lucky or it is indeed easier. I haven't analysed it.



saturnine said:


> What you installed on your SE are called Cathedral hands, FYI.


Ah, so that's what they're called, of course (looks like church windows)! Thanks! :-!


----------



## VWatchie

jure17 said:


> Hello everyone!
> I'm a big fan of 24 hour dial watches and of course Vostok Watches.
> 
> In principle, I like Komandirskie 350, but do I not like their dials.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get 24 hour dials to match Vostok 2431 mechanisms in Komandirskie 350.
> Tnx!


I'm afraid I don't but I'd be interested as well. Perhaps IgorIV can make you a custom 24 hour dial?


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## jure17

Thank you 24 Hours! I know that this was'nt easy question.


----------



## danimur

I have read all the pages of the thread. It was very instructive, some information were very useful to me. I think some pictures are needed to complete some of the sayings. But in the end I conclude it is a great thread.Congratulation! Keep going the good job for the future!


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## SedFerro

Thanks Matt, great post, this also made me more interested in trying a Vostok now.
Although I've a fairly small wrist 6,5 inches. I can wear a SKX009 no problem, but I wonder, since there are many different case styles for Vostok, which one would be better for smaller wrists? 
I've noticed there's a list of sellers that are members of WUS, Do you know how to contact them? 
Thanks


----------



## scouser

Hi guys, just a quick question, do any other watch brands bezels fit a Vostok Amphibian 120658 / 2416B Scuba Dude? I have one on the way!

in other words, can I exchange another bezel off another watch (Seiko, Citizen ect) and simply clip it into place, im asking this as I live in NZ, and I know a watch maker who has a bucket load of old second hand bezels?


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## saturnine

scouser said:


> Hi guys, just a quick question, do any other watch brands bezels fit a Vostok Amphibian 120658 / 2416B Scuba Dude? I have one on the way!
> 
> in other words, can I exchange another bezel off another watch (Seiko, Citizen ect) and simply clip it into place, im asking this as I live in NZ, and I know a watch maker who has a bucket load of old second hand bezels?


No, but there are many sellers on ebay who make aftermarket Vostok bezels.


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## scouser

saturnine said:


> No, but there are many sellers on ebay who make aftermarket Vostok bezels.


Cheers, Ebay it is then......


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## saturnine

SedFerro said:


> Thanks Matt, great post, this also made me more interested in trying a Vostok now.
> Although I've a fairly small wrist 6,5 inches. I can wear a SKX009 no problem, but I wonder, since there are many different case styles for Vostok, which one would be better for smaller wrists?
> I've noticed there's a list of sellers that are members of WUS, Do you know how to contact them?
> Thanks


I have similar wrists & don't think you will have an issue with any. Personally I prefer cases with 18mm lugs, like the 420 along with the vintage 470 (Albatross) & 119 (Tonneau) cases (& Komandirskies). But I had a 710 ministry before that & it was fine. Here's a writeup of all the modern cases, save for a few SE cases, from a similar wristed gent. I did not favor the 110 case for the reasons stated.


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## martinz

Will a 30.46mm inner diameter bezel insert fit aftermarket vostok bezel (ie: boris bezel)?


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## VWatchie

martinz said:


> Will a 30.46mm inner diameter bezel insert fit aftermarket vostok bezel (ie: boris bezel)?


No, I'm afraid it won't fit. As far as I know the inner diameter of the insert must be 31.5 mm and the outside diameter 38.0 mm to fit a "standard" after market bezel such as boris'. Your insert would "hang in the air" with about half a millimeter around the inner part of the bezel and would most likely crash into the crystal. I'm not an expert but that is my best estimate.


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## Matt_Bored_O

martinz said:


> Will a 30.46mm inner diameter bezel insert fit aftermarket vostok bezel (ie: boris bezel)?


page 4
post #39


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## Spench

Long shot, but does anyone know where a I could get some "Wire Lugs" for an old 350 case - like the ones pictured below?

Have tried forums, eBay and even written to Pers184 but no luck

Looks like they could be fabricated out of rings from a NATO strap but that's beyond my skill set


----------



## mariomart

Spench said:


> Long shot, but does anyone know where a I could get some "Wire Lugs" for an old 350 case - like the ones pictured below?
> 
> Have tried forums, eBay and even written to Pers184 but no luck
> 
> Looks like they could be fabricated out of rings from a NATO strap but that's beyond my skill set


IgorIV on WUS recently began fabricating and selling the wire lugs and I currently have a pair on there way to me in Australia. Contact him and your dreams will come true ;-)


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## scouser

Another noob question, will any current dial fit any movement for sale at Meranom?


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## Matt_Bored_O

scouser said:


> Another noob question, will any current dial fit any movement for sale at Meranom?


 Yes.

#44
page 5


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## scouser

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Yes.
> 
> #44
> page 5


Huge thanks Matt, I have just read the whole thread so I don't ask repeat questions, big thanks again for you knowledge and patience

Cheers Eric


----------



## Spench

Thanks a lot mariomart, message sent
Can I ask how much they were please?


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## mariomart

Spench said:


> Thanks a lot mariomart, message sent
> Can I ask how much they were please?


I was quoted $20 + $4 shipping to Australia, which is amazingly reasonable, however you will have to chat to IgorIV as to what the current charges are.

Here is the photo he sent me, honestly they look just like the originals


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## MattBrace

Just a quick answer to the question for those who have asked, yes I now have stock of Clean style bezels in Stainless steel or Bronze.
Polished finish or Brushed finish.

PM me for details.

Cheers Matt


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## Spench

Anyone which of the Meranom stainless crowns (if any) will fit in a 350 swing-lug case with 2209 movement?
Thanks


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## mariomart

Spench said:


> Anyone which of the Meranom stainless crowns (if any) will fit in a 350 swing-lug case with 2209 movement?
> Thanks


None of them will fit, the stems are only suitable for 24XX series movements.

I'm not aware of anyone selling new stem/crown for 2209 movements, however seller asap31 on Ebay frequently sells old Vostok stock and he may have what you are looking for.


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## Spench

mariomart said:


> None of them will fit, the stems are only suitable for 24XX series movements.
> 
> I'm not aware of anyone selling new stem/crown for 2209 movements, however seller asap31 on Ebay frequently sells old Vostok stock and he may have what you are looking for.


Thanks a lot, will keep an eye out. Does anyone know if it's possible to install a new crown on to the old stem?


----------



## Spench

Long shot here - does anyone know where I can get a movement holder clip for swing lug 350/2209?
It's the little wire with 2 screws that stops the movement jiggling about
Many thanks for any help


----------



## mariomart

Spench said:


> Long shot here - does anyone know where I can get a movement holder clip for swing lug 350/2209?
> It's the little wire with 2 screws that stops the movement jiggling about
> Many thanks for any help


Do a search on Ebay for "Case mounting clamp"

Or from Otto Friel Error in Form!

I purchased the size of 2.7x2.0mm for my 350 which did the trick, but other sizes might also work, you can always file down if they are too big.


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## Spench

Thank you very much mate


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## mariomart

Spench said:


> Thank you very much mate


Not a problem.

What part of the world are you in?


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## Spench

Hey Mario, I'm in Sydney


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## mariomart

Spench said:


> Hey Mario, I'm in Sydney


I'm in WA and would be happy to send you a couple for free. I'll PM you.


----------



## MrRolex

Hi everyone, I have a query that I am hoping someone can answer. I have an Amphibia 420 date, and Amphibia 090 non-date. I want to swap the movements.
I am aware they are a straight swap, but the stems will be different lengths. So will the 090 non-date stem work in the 420 date movement? And the 420 date stem work in the 090 non-date movement after the movement swap?
I have had a look on Meranom's site, and am aware that there are 3 different stem lengths? The date and non-date stems look the same to me, but I am hoping the only difference is the stem lengths.
Many thanks if anyone can advise if the stems are the same in both non-date and date movements.


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## MrRolex

Here are pictures of the 2 watches and movements I want to swap.


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## mariomart

MrRolex said:


> Here are pictures of the 2 watches and movements I want to swap.


Just keep the case and crown/stem from the same watch together and swap the movements. Everything will be okay


----------



## MrRolex

Many thanks for the quick reply. I was hoping that would be the case. I think the only difference is the stem lengths, and the non-date and date movements use the same stems. I just like the red numerals and date complication in my 420, and think the red would contrast well with the blue bezel. What do you think?


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## MrRolex

I just saw Meranom sells model number 420916, which has my 090 movement in the 420. So its looks like it does fit then. Just a case of swapping the stems and crowns over when the movements are exchanged.


----------



## MrRolex

I am also going to swap my hexoid bracelet for a Strapcode Super Oyster one. I found the prices on Amazon are cheaper than buying from their website direct. I hope this helps anyone else interested. The Strapcode ones look good quality with end links and screws rather than push pins in the links. I was looking at other Super Oysters but usually they have curved end links (folded not solid) to suit the Seiko SKX007 etc. I think the 090 on a Super Oyster looks perfect, even better than the hexoid.


----------



## MrRolex

Does anyone know where I can buy one of these sandwich dials? I have looked on Meranom, Ebay, Amazon, but no luck. I know Meranom sells a sandwich dial but the triangles are plain white. I am looking for the ones with chrome rims around the triangles as in the picture below. Many thanks for your help.


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## MrRolex

This is the closest I can find to it. But see the difference, no chrome around the triangles. I think the chrome looks better than plain white.


----------



## MrRolex

Hi everyone, I have another query about the Amphibia 090.
090661 and 090661M model numbers. Does the M denote matt finish on the case?I had a look at both models on Meranom's site, but they both show the same picture with a matt case. I sent him a message to query this, but he hasn't replied.
I want to order the polished case version (I don't like the matt finish), so can someone confirm its 090661?
Many thanks for your help.
See pictures below of both watches.


----------



## saturnine

MrRolex said:


> Hi everyone, I have another query about the Amphibia 090.
> 090661 and 090661M model numbers. Does the M denote matt finish on the case?I had a look at both models on Meranom's site, but they both show the same picture with a matt case. I sent him a message to query this, but he hasn't replied.
> I want to order the polished case version (I don't like the matt finish), so can someone confirm its 090661?
> Many thanks for your help.


Yes, that is correct, M is for matte/blasted finish.


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## MrRolex

Many thanks for your quick reply. I thought that was the case. I just wanted to check before ordering from Meranom. I have an idea for that case and dial with a Boris bezel and Planet Ocean insert. Either on a hexad or Super Oyster bracelet. 
Do you know where one can buy a 420 SE sandwich dial? (The one with the chrome rim around the triangles). I see Meranom only sells the black with plain white ones.


----------



## Spench

Is a cheap ceramic insert on a Boris bezel really going to fit over my amphibian plexi?
Looks like the inner diameter on the ceramic is 30.5mm instead of the required 31.5mm, yet people seem to do this mod.
Am I missing something?
Thanks for any clues

EDIT: The ever reliable Possum King says it will fit. Good enough for me.


----------



## Spench

To fit a solid Meranom crown on a 119 case with 24xx movement, use the short one that's made for 710/420/96 case
I had thought it would be the same as one for the 090, but that sucker was too long
Hope this is useful


----------



## mariomart

I can't remember where I originally found this photo, but I've found it quite useful to determine which of the new crown/stems go with which case.


----------



## DocTone

mariomart said:


> I can't remember where I originally found this photo, but I've found it quite useful to determine which of the new crown/stems go with which case.


The long one "F " is suitable for the 150 case as well. Even on Meranom site this is not visible


----------



## Spench

AM Bezel removal hack - 
Finally got my AM bezel off with this tool made from a plastic orange juice lid. Thing was stuck good, had been for a couple of years. Gatorade lid would probably work too. It wants to be the thicker, stiffer kind of plastic lid. I cut the part middle out with nail clippers. Grip and twist!


----------



## saturnine

I use one of these. PIXNOR Watch Opener Tool Case Opener Pry Type Repair Tools. This is especially useful on the smooth bezels which fit very flush against the case. Of course, it opens snap on casebacks better as well & is far less likely to gouge the movement. I've not used it on an AM Bezel.

If yours works half as well it may be preferable, however, as it will not mar the case in any way.


----------



## Spench

Those case back openers look a nice bit of kit, must admit I haven't tried one like that. You're right saturnine, the chance to mar the case is very small with the plastic lid, although the AM bezel did leave a small mark on the acrylic on its way off. I suspect this might have happened with any removal method, and it was easily polished out. There is the chance of some minor wear to the lug holes as you have to grip the watch somehow. I was really happy to finally get that bezel off as I had already scratched the case while trying to do it with a case knife. I was determined not to take metal to it again. That plastic lid now sits proudly with my proper tools.


----------



## saturnine

Spench said:


> Those case back openers look a nice bit of kit, must admit I haven't tried one like that. You're right saturnine, the chance to mar the case is very small with the plastic lid, although the AM bezel did leave a small mark on the acrylic on its way off. I suspect this might have happened with any removal method, and it was easily polished out. There is the chance of some minor wear to the lug holes as you have to grip the watch somehow. I was really happy to finally get that bezel off as I had already scratched the case while trying to do it with a case knife. I was determined not to take metal to it again. That plastic lid now sits proudly with my proper tools.


I've always thought case knives were terrible. The above tool makes them feel like using a rusty nail in comparison.


----------



## Aidanm

For anyone who plans on modding a 119 case I can confirm that the Boris bezel "bos" allows just enough relief to clear the crown.

My Murphy bezel designed for small cases such as 420, while beautifully machined, just lacked in relief by a mm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gavgetwet

That's a lot to read!


----------



## RKnack

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Thanks! Waiting for my Soviet era Amphibian to arrive, so this info will be useful!


----------



## VWatchie

mariomart said:


> I can't remember where I originally found this photo, but I've found it quite useful to determine which of the new crown/stems go with which case.
> 
> View attachment 11350602


Thanks!

I wonder if the D model would fit my 320 case?


----------



## FernandoFuenzalida

Thanks a lot Matt!! Astounding amounts of detail and useful info, the Guide is great!!
I happened to find this forum when I had already ordered my first Komandiskie, but after reading it I'm already saving for an Amphibian!!
Do you plan on doing something similar with the Komandiskie??


----------



## Aidanm

Does anyone know if the Meranom stainless steel crowns will fit the new 670?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VWatchie

_Comrades!_ With your help I've just managed to completely disassemble my first watch movement ; a used Vostok calibre 2409 that I picked up on eBay for about $1.50 (auction). I used my smartphone with a macro lens to document the steps as I went; pictures here if you want to see them. As far as I can tell the only movement parts that I found missing were one bridge screw and a gear/wheel in the keyless works.

My main source was the videos of WUS member ratfacedgit, but also many other resources. List of links below (some links are from the first post in this thread!)

As a small contribution and my way to say thank you to all of you watch comrades I took the opportunity to document which screwdrivers I used. Here's the list:

_Ø0.80mm (Yellow) A*F Swiss
Ø1.00mm (Black) A*F Swiss
Ø1.20mm (Red) A*F Swiss
Ø1.40mm (Grey) A*F Swiss.
Ø1.60mm (Violet) A*F Swiss._

It should be said that sometimes I had to use a smaller screwdriver than the screw itself because the blade was too thick for the screw. Anyway, I really don't see that any other sizes than the ones I've listed should be required for a 2409 movement and perhaps the Ø1.60mm (Violet) can be skipped (_I've changed my mind about this, please see the EDIT below_).

_*EDIT May 24th, 2017:*_
_Testing weather my disassembled and then reassembled main spring barrel would actually work, I installed it in another and fully working 2409 movement (please also see the next EDIT below). In the process I noticed that the Ø1.60mm (Violet) screwdriver suddenly fitted the ratchet wheel and crown wheel screw slots perfectly. I'm not 100 % sure but it would seem to me that the width of the slot may vary from one movement to another. Anyhow, I would now definitely say that the Ø1.60mm (Violet) screwdriver has a role to play in working with a 2409 movement (probably all Vostok 24xx movements)._

The trickiest part (as I still lack the know-how) and one that still needs to be resolved is how to remove the arbor from the main spring. The ratfacedgit shows how it's done on an ETA movement (link "ETA 3" below), and I would guess the procedure is the same for a Vostok 24xx arbor but I haven't been able to get this confirmed. Any help would be very much appreciated!

I can't claim that I fully understand how the main spring works inside the barrel. However I have been able to put the main spring back into the barrel with my bare hands and the resistance wasn't that great (I simply did this to practice it, it still needs to be cleaned and greased), but what I wonder is _if I have to position the end of the main spring at a certain spot inside the barrel where it's supposed to hook up (I guess?), or if it will simply hook itself up in the right spot inside the barrel when I start winding it?_ I guess I could simply test this, but if anyone of you can confirm or explain I'd really appreciate it. Please see the below picture!

_*EDIT May 24th, 2017:*
To test weather my disassembled and then reassembled main spring barrel would actually work, I installed it in one of my other fully working 2409 movements. I'm happy to say that it worked perfectly. So, my conclusion is that it isn't necessary or required to to position the main spring end at a specific spot inside the barrel. It seems to hook up where it's supposed to by design. The reason I was pondering this is that I noticed that the inside of the barrel rim isn't perfectly circled. About 1/5 of the rim's __circumference is recessed (please see the next picture). Now, it could be that I was just lucky (I usually never am) getting the end of the main spring into this recess, so anyone with more knowledge about this please enlighten us!_
















As I don't yet own a cannon pinion remover I pulled out the cannon pinion using a tweezers. I placed the tweezers horizontally on the movement (with a piece of plastic underneath), pinched the cannon pinion and pressed the tweezers downwards to get leverage. It came off without any excessive force. As far as I remember this technique is demonstrated in the 2414a disassembly video that I link to below. I certainly feel this method is unorthodox and I will eventually get a cannon pinion remover. Anyway, as this was a movement I basically bought just to practice disassembly (and get some spare parts in the process) I didn't worry too much.

One thing I dreaded was to remove the balance shock assembly jewels, but this proved a lot easier than I had imagined. Inspired by Dave Murphy's long disassembly post (link below) and the ratfacedgit's video on the topic (link below) I managed to make my own tool (pictures below) from a Ø2 mm peg wood stick. I first sandpapered one of the ends to make it as even as I could. I then used a Ø1 mm new and sharp drill to drill a hole by hand in the sandpapered end. Finally I gradually sandpapered down the sides around the drilled hole so that it would press on the three flanges of the shock assembly spring. To my surprise the shock assembly springs came off very easily on my first attempt. The tricky bit was picking them up, so I resolved to a toothpick with a bit of rub-off cleaning compound attached to it. That made it easy, and yes those springs are tiny indeed!















Links List:
Boctok, Vostok 2409 movement removal
Boctok, Vostok 2409 disassembly
Vostok Komandirskie Cal 2414a complete disassembly and service
Repairing a Vostok 24XX Mainspring a simple guide
The watch barrel
Replacing Watch Mainspring
ETA 3 (Main spring disassembly)
Vostok Caliber 2414 Service Notes (Very long, many pics.)


----------



## saturnine

24 Hours said:


> _Comrades!_ With your help I've just managed to completely disassemble my first watch movement


Was this just for your education or are you working on fixing something? Either way, Bravo! Your data is a very worthwhile addition to the collective WUS intelligence of Vostok/Boctok.


----------



## VWatchie

saturnine said:


> Was this just for your education or are you working on fixing something? Either way, Bravo! Your data is a very worthwhile addition to the collective WUS intelligence of Vostok/Boctok.


Thank you very much saturnine! 

The reasons I'm doing this are many, but the most important reason is that for many, many years - perhaps even since childhood - I've had a dream to be able to take a watch apart, clean and oil it, put it back together, and hear it tick again. Long term it would also be great to be able to make some minor repairs but as of now that's not my main priority. My next challenge will be the cleaning. Then of course the oiling and reassembly which will probably be the biggest challenge. I'll report my experiences on this thread.

The other reasons I'm doing this is that - if I'm able to develop the sufficient skills - I'll also be able to collect used inexpensive Russian watches on eBay that needs service and/or minor repairs to run, I'll be able to make a necessary modification to a 2415 movement to be able to install the hands from a 2415 SE movement that I have and that isn't working properly, I'll hopefully be able to get my grandfathers old wrist watch from the 50-ties to tick again, and so on.

Come to think of it, this watch tinkering also has a profound therapeutic effect on me (that is as long as I don't loose or destroy any parts, which of course will be more or less inevitable)! ;-)


----------



## VWatchie

For anyone interested I've just made a couple of edits to my "2409 disassembly post". Please see under: *EDIT May 24th, 2017:*


----------



## FungusAmongUs

Is it absolutely necessary to have a watch press to replace a crystal? I scratched the hell out of my Komandirskie but I have another on the way for spare parts. I tried taking it apart just for practice and was able to snap it out and in just fine with my thumb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mariomart

FungusAmongUs said:


> Is it absolutely necessary to have a watch press to replace a crystal? I scratched the hell out of my Komandirskie but I have another on the way for spare parts. I tried taking it apart just for practice and was able to snap it out and in just fine with my thumb
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've found that Komandirskie crystals can generally be easily removed and replaced by hand. I think its down to the lower water resistance rating hence the fit is not as tight as an Amphibia. The Amphibia crystal is thicker and is a much harder to instal without a watch press, but not impossible.


----------



## kakefe

Recently I faced some problems while fitting the hands of my amfibias..probably my chinese hand fitting press tips are damaged. so i d like to ask you which tools are you using for fitting the hands ? fitting press or single press ? and the diameter of the tips ? plastic tips or steel ones ? thanks in advance


instagram @watchcolony


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## saturnine

kakefe said:


> Recently I faced some problems while fitting the hands of my amfibias..probably my chinese hand fitting press tips are damaged. so i d like to ask you which tools are you using for fitting the hands ? fitting press or single press ? and the diameter of the tips ? plastic tips or steel ones ? thanks in advance
> 
> instagram @watchcolony


I use the silver (1.5mm) one of these:
3pcs Watch Hand Pressers Pusher φ0.2/0.5/0.8/1.0/1.5mm Fitting Set Repair Tool | eBay

Not the greatest but they complete the task; I've never tried any others. I like the manual control they give me.


----------



## RKnack

By the way, is an accuracy of +10 seconds/day reasonable for an Amphibia with a 2409 movement? That is what mine seems to be doing...


----------



## FungusAmongUs

RKnack said:


> By the way, is an accuracy of +10 seconds/day reasonable for an Amphibia with a 2409 movement? That is what mine seems to be doing...


I'm not an expert but I hear that anywhere between -10/+30 seconds is within specs for a Vostok watch out of the box

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## James_

Officially it's -20 +60 sec/day.



FungusAmongUs said:


> I'm not an expert but I hear that anywhere between -10/+30 seconds is within specs for a Vostok watch out of the box
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## netwatch

Thank you for your time to compile all of this information!!


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## VWatchie

Once in a while, you get to feel a little proud of yourself. It happened to me tonight when I reassembled my first barrel arbor (Vostok calibre 2409). It wasn't fiddly, at least not for me, it was outright difficult, but, in the end, I prevailed! It took me over an hour and a half&#8230;

The only guidance I had was this section of a video on the Watch Repair Channel. It's not a bad instruction but no matter how I pried and twisted that arbor I couldn't get it back. At one point I also shoot the arbor across the room. As usual, my wife was instrumental in finding it for me (bless her!). Finally, I sharpened a bit of peg wood and by prying the main spring right next to the arbor hook I was finally able to get in back in place. It took a lot of patience (and thinking).

Well, I just had to tell the world!!! :-d


----------



## eserim

Hi

Has anyone had experiance of this ebay seller - here's an example. He/they seem to have a non-eBay site as well. Lots of good feedback, but I can't send direct question. One thing that stuck out to me, was on the advert for the custom Amphibia it states the glass as "Mineral Glass" Which if so, would make it very attractive. Yet on the non-eBay site this claim isn't made.

Cheers

Eserim


----------



## little_w

I've dealt with Boris before. He is a good and reliable seller. There are many good mentions him here on forum as well. I do not believe there is a mineral crystal being made for Amphibia. Given the design and the extreme curvature I do not think it possible. Not quite sure about the attractiveness of a mineral crystal over acrylic in this case, to be honest. It would be the worst of both worlds. Mineral is far from scratch-proof so could be scratched quite easily (given the shape VERY easily) but are hard enough to resist easy fix with Polywatch and 10 minutes of your time. So even if there was this option, I'd say count me out. Not to mention it simply does not fit Amphibias. They are meant to be worn and beaten up and used and abused... and loved in all that.


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## eserim

little_w said:


> ....They are meant to be worn and beaten up and used and abused... and loved in all that.


Indeed, thinking about this a bit more and looking at today's watch - 30 year old Komandirskie, which has been worn, beaten up and even melted (don't ask) and after a few minutes with tooth past is quite shiny, I think you are probably right, wear, enjoy, polish, repeat. (also, my late father in law's Ollech & Wajs Astro-Chron was almost unreadable before a little polish, now it is clear, but not perfect - on purpose, so its age still is evident)


----------



## eserim

PS - would I be right in thinking that as his model numer is " 2416/420280" it is in a 420 case?

PPS - any idea what the name he has on the face translates as?


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## little_w

Yes, it is 420 case, dial no. 280  What name are you talking about? The 280 dial only has the standard text on dial: 
Line 1: Amphibian
Line 2: Self-winding (i.e. automatic)
Line 3: Water Resistant 200m
Line 4: 31 Jewels (literally "stones")

Or are you talking about a different watch / text?


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## eserim

Doh! it is the Russian for Amphibia - so used to seeing "Komandirskie" on mine daily (at the moment) watch, plus looking at the AM-Diver watches, I thought it was a re-brand, like AM-Diver.


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## hoakin1981

To the OP, great job/guide! Really helpful stuff!

Just wondering, i want to replace the gaskets (all 3 of them) but i can't seem to find where the procedure is explained. I think it would be under the "Repairs and Maintenance" section..

Is it perhaps not uploaded yet?


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## Matt_Bored_O

hoakin1981 said:


> To the OP, great job/guide! Really helpful stuff!
> 
> Just wondering, i want to replace the gaskets (all 3 of them) but i can't seem to find where the procedure is explained. I think it would be under the "Repairs and Maintenance" section..
> 
> Is it perhaps not uploaded yet?


Thank you Hoakin.

I have not been well since Dec. of 2016 and I am often not at home since I must go to another city for medical treatment.

Also, there was a flood in my part of town in Oct. 2016 and my computer was destroyed. I lost some photos and instructions that I made for this guide. Unfortunately, the 'Guide' is not complete yet.

I want to thank those gents, especially Mario my Aussie friend, who have provided help and other useful info. to those who needed it. 
I started this guide but it is a place for questions and answers from all of us.

I am sure someone will answer your question of the gaskets soon. If not, I will return.


----------



## Tarquin

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Thank you Hoakin.
> 
> I have not been well since Dec. of 2016 and I am often not at home since I must go to another city for medical treatment.
> 
> Also, there was a flood in my part of town in Oct. 2016 and my computer was destroyed. I lost some photos and instructions that I made for this guide. Unfortunately, the 'Guide' is not complete yet.
> 
> I want to thank those gents, especially Mario my Aussie friend, who have provided help and other useful info. to those who needed it.
> I started this guide but it is a place for questions and answers from all of us.
> 
> I am sure someone will answer your question of the gaskets soon. If not, I will return.


Been wondering where you were. Good to know you're still around, still active and I hope you make full recovery.


----------



## saturnine

hoakin1981 said:


> To the OP, great job/guide! Really helpful stuff!
> 
> Just wondering, i want to replace the gaskets (all 3 of them) but i can't seem to find where the procedure is explained. I think it would be under the "Repairs and Maintenance" section..
> 
> Is it perhaps not uploaded yet?


*The Three Seals of Vostok*

1. Caseback: Replacing this should be straightforward

2. Crown: Take the crown/stem out of the movement & dig out the old gasket if necessary using a metal pick, toothpick, etc. Use canned air or similar to remove any old gasket debris. Drop the new seal over the stem & push into place with a toothpick or other small blunt tool. Don't worry too much, screwing down the crown should fully seat it.

3. Stem/crown tube: The most mysterious Vostok seal of all. This is a dust seal that resides inside the stem tube, behind a small metal washer. To replace it, pry the metal washer out with a small screwdriver (be gentle, it's thin) and then replace it. Then you can reseat the washer with a tube (or a reversed drill bit, or something like that) of the same dimension. The more you squeeze it, the more the stem will fit tight (but the seal will wear faster). (courtesy MessyGarage)

I put a light coating of silicon grease (bulb/dialectric grease) on the 2 larger seals. You can use an old water color brush or what I do (picked up this tip here or youtube); smash the end of a toothpick w/pliers or the back of a knife so that instead of narrowing to a point it is flattened. Then use a hobby knife & cut "bristles" into the flattened edge for a stiff brush the perfect size for Vostok seals.

EDIT:
Here's the toothpick trick. This same video details everything save for the stem tube gasket:


----------



## VWatchie

Finally having a weekend on my own (Kids with their grandparents. Wife out shopping with friends using my charge card :think:. Nevertheless Yippee! ;-)) I've (sort of) documented all 20 screws of the Vostok 2409 movement. I posted my result in a separate thread (for future use) named "Vostok Wostok восток Calibre 2409 Screw Diameters". The main purpose was to be able to mix all screws while cleaning them and then later be able to figure out which screw goes where. I hope you'll find it useful comrades!


----------



## saturnine

.


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## VWatchie

I've just dismantled and cleaned my third Vostok 2409, and as I was looking at the parts drying I thought it looked pretty beautiful and took a picture of it. Missing in the picture is the main spring, balance complete, pallet fork, and stem/crown (I forgot) but other than that it is complete. So I thought someone else might enjoy to see it too!

This movement came from a lot of four 2409s that I bought on eBay for about $10. This movement wasn't too dirty and looked in great shape. It seemed that it had never been serviced as all screws looked untouched. However, the main spring was broken (now replaced with a main spring from one of the other movements in the lot). My guess is that the main spring broke early on and that someone only used it for a short period of time.


----------



## VWatchie

Comrades, a while back when I was going to do my very first oiling of jewel holes and pallet stones (Vostok 2409), I ran into serious problems; I just couldn't see what I was doing and the result of it. So the thought of getting myself an inexpensive/affordable stereo microscope rose to mind. After having spent a full day or so researching the topic of stereo microscopes I started the thread _"Would this stereo microscope help me do the job?"_ Well, now I have the scope and it has been very helpful. So if anyone of you is in the same process as I was - considering to buy a stereo microscope - my initial impressions are noted _here_.


----------



## VWatchie

Nine months ago or so while taking my first steps trying to learn a bit about watchmaking, I'm pretty sure I accidentally ruined my Amphibian SE 710555S and wasn't able to fix it. As I was so fond to this watch (it's still one of my definitive favorites) I decided to replace the movement with a brand new 2415 movement. The full story here.

It was only after this that I learned that the hands of the 2415 SE movement wouldn't fit the regular 2415 movement. Dmitry at Meranom.com then told me that what I had to do was to "replace the minute and second pins". At that time it was simply beyond my level of watchmaking knowledge, abilities, and tools to do so, so I decided to get some really beautiful hands from IgorIV (called cathedral hands, as I later learned from saturnine) and mount them on the normal 2415 movement.

Now, nine months later I'm happy to say I have gained the knowledge, skills, and tools to make the replacement. So last night I emailed Dmitry and asked him if these were the parts he was referring to (please see the images), and he very quickly confirmed it was. Фантастика!







*Seconds hand pinion (seconds pin)*








*Cannon pinion (minute pin)*

Now, Dmitry refers to these parts as the "minute pin" and the "second pin". Generally, I believe these parts are called _"cannon pinion"_ (minute pin) and _"seconds hand __pinion__"_ (seconds pin), but please correct me if I'm wrong!

I didn't think I would have to ask Dmitry to confirm this because I had gotten myself a digital precision vernier caliper with a repeatability of 0.01 millimeters with the plan of simply comparing the measurements of these parts. However, as the differences in diameters were minimal (to say the least) I still decided to get in touch with Dmitry to make absolutely sure.

I still haven't made the replacement but plan to do so soon. Once finished I'll let you know how it worked out and hopefully, I'll have the time to make a guide about how to do it.

I guess the following info isn't super useful and may not be 100 % precise, but for what it's worth here are my measuring results.

_Seconds hand pinion diameter of the top section (right were the __second's__ hand is fitted): 
2415: 0.17__millimetres__.
2415SE: 0.17__millimetres__.
No difference!

Seconds hand pinion height:
2415: 5.28 millimeters.
2415SE: 5.69 millimeters.

__Cannon pinion diameter__ of the top section (right __where__ the minute hand is fitted): 
2415: 0.85__millimetres__.
2415SE: 0.87 millimetres.

Cannon pinion height:
2415: 2.62__millimetres__.
2415SE: 2.57 millimetres._


----------



## Topdude

Hi there to all! 

I'm totally new to this forum and arrived here due to my Amphibia which is in the mail from Russia.
Reading through these pages I'm interested in regulating the movement of this watch. However, I can't find the article about maintenance and How To.
I'm sure it's due to my noob skills on this forum, so a little help as to where to find info on regulating the movement would be highly appreciated!

Kind regards!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
How To: Regulate Vostok 24xx









*Black: * Balance Assembly*
Red *: Regulating Arm
*Green*: Regulatiion / Speed Indicator
*Blue*: Direction to move Regulating Arm to increase or decrease speed

*Tools:*

- magnifier : hands free such as visor, loupe etc.
- thin, pointed stick or narrow tweezers: plastic or non-magnetic metal or de-magnetised metal

optional: time grapher machine or PC application with good microphone 
--- makes the task faster and easier but it is not necessary

*
How To:*

- push the _end _of the Regulating Arm with the stick / tweezers or similar tool
--- push it Left or Right to increase or decrease speed 
- move the Arm only a_ very, very_ small amount
--- the Hairspring is very sensitive and requires very little movement of the Arm to create a change in speed 
- DO NOT touch the Hairspring: it is very delicate
--- if you damage it, don't worry, it can be replaced or repaired if damage is minimal

- as you move the arm observe carefully with your magnifier to determine if you have moved the arm and how far it has moved
- if you move the arm too much, don't worry, simply move it the opposite direction a small amount

- it is helpful to create a small mark on the Indicator scale to help you determine the amount of movement of the Indicator
--- it may be difficult for you to see how far you have moved the Regulator Arm

- sometimes you may think that the arm has moved but it has not ! You must observe closely

- be very careful: do not allow tool to slip and touch other parts

- regulation requires patience and practice
--- it is easy to move the Arm too much but it will become easier to do with practice
--- feel free to practice by moving the Arm back and forth, don't worry, if you are careful you will not damage the mechanism

_Move - Test - Move - Test _

- move the Regulating Arm then test the watch: place it on your time grapher or re-assemble it and wear it for a day
--- if it is too fast or too slow, repeat the procedure 
--- be patient if you dont have a time grapher system: it may require a week or more to properly regulate your watch when you are learning to move the Arm

*Notes*:

- all 24xx Vostok models have identical Balance assemblies and are regulated identically


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> *How To:*
> 
> - push the _end _of the Regulating Arm with the stick / tweezers or similar tool
> --- push it Left or Right to increase or decrease speed


Great guide! Thanks!

I'm under the impression pushing (as you suggest) is the preferred method by most people. However, when I was new to this I felt uncomfortable pushing the arm feeling I wasn't getting enough control. So, I tried grabbing the end of the regulating arm with my tweezers (and rather firmly so as to not risk pushing it into the hair spring) and then drag it sidewise. It worked very well for me. Also, now that I have a stereo microscope (it's really a blessing once you get seriously tinkering bitten) I'm able to move the arm in a very controlled manner. I'm contemplating trying to make a regulating arm tool that would extend the arm when regulating. If I'm successful with that I'll get back to the thread.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24 Hours said:


> ....I tried grabbing the end of the regulating arm with my tweezers (and rather firmly so as to not risk pushing it into the hair spring) and then drag it sidewise. It worked very well for me.


If very carefully done, this can give better control, as you say.

The reason it is not often suggested is that when the regulator arm is grasped with tweezers, if you are not careful or if your hand shakes too much, you can dislodge the arm. This could damage the hairspring. However, if you are careful it should be no problem. Do not move the tweezers up or down, just left or right only, or the arm could dislodge.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> If very carefully done, this can give better control, as you say.
> 
> The reason it is not often suggested is that when the regulator arm is grasped with tweezers, if you are not careful or if your hand shakes too much, you can dislodge the arm. This could damage the hairspring. However, if you are careful it should be no problem. _*Do not move the tweezers up or down, just left or right only, or the arm could dislodge*_.


I really had no idea. Very valuable information. Thanks! I guess I've been lucky never to move the tweezers up or down involuntarily.

Hmm... I wonder if I'll dare to use this technique the next time around. Maybe I'll think about it, get "the shakes", and dislodge the arm


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.








This is only an idea.

- the end of the Regulator Arm fits into the channel in the threaded rod
- when the rod is turned by the knob, the rod will move in or out and it
will push or pull the Arm
- the rod must have fine threads with lubrication and minimal slack within the 
upright block
- a spring can be added to reduce slack

24Hours: please post your idea.


----------



## Topdude

Thanks for the info! I'll give it a try after breaking in the movement for a couple of months.

Still waiting for the watch to arrive. According to Russian mail it's still waiting to leave the country.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> View attachment 12478835
> 
> 
> This is only an idea.
> 
> - the end of the Regulator Arm fits into the channel in the threaded rod
> - when the rod is turned by the knob, the rod will move in or out and it
> will push or pull the Arm
> - the rod must have fine threads with lubrication and minimal slack within the
> upright block
> - a spring can be added to reduce slack
> 
> 24Hours: please post your idea.


What a genius idea! I like it! I guess the movement is fixed in the tool (movement holder function), right?

My idea is a lot less sophisticated and simply cosists of a piece of peg wood with "a hole" at one of the short sides. My idea is that if the size (width) and shape of the hole can be made to (somewhat) fit the end of the regulator arm the peg wood stick should provide the momentum to move the arm in a more controlled manner. Of course, it would still require some instinctive feel, i.e. my "tool" would be more of a helper than an actual tool. Now, whether this would work or not remains to be seen, but if it works (at least somewhat satisfactory) I'll try to shoot a short video of it.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24 Hours said:


> ... I guess the movement is fixed in the tool (movement holder function), right?
> 
> My idea is a lot less sophisticated and simply cosists of a piece of peg wood with "a hole" at one of the short sides. My idea is that if the size (width) and shape of the hole can be made to (somewhat) fit the end of the regulator arm the peg wood stick should provide the momentum to move the arm in a more controlled manner. Of course, it would still require some instinctive feel, i.e. my "tool" would be more of a helper than an actual tool. Now, whether this would work or not remains to be seen, but if it works (at least somewhat satisfactory) I'll try to shoot a short video of it.


Yes, the movement is fixed in place and aligned with the tool.

I like your idea. You are creating an extension to the Regulator Arm. This creates more leverage and this will allow the arm to move more easily with more control, as you say.

Perhaps a leverage arm could be made of non-magnetic metal such as brass or aluminium rod.

Matt


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Yes, the movement is fixed in place and aligned with the tool.
> 
> I like your idea. You are creating an extension to the Regulator Arm. This creates more leverage and this will allow the arm to move more easily with more control, as you say.
> 
> Perhaps a leverage arm could be made of non-magnetic metal such as brass or aluminium rod.
> 
> Matt


Thanks, and you are describing it perfectly (much better than me). Yes, if the "peg wood prototype" works out, I guess it could be a template for a real tool in some non-magnetic alloy. Although in that case, I'd have to find a tool maker.


----------



## VWatchie

I decided that the third Vostok calibre 2409 that I took apart would become my _qualifying piece of __servicing_. It was going to be the proof that I was now able to perform a proper 2409 service.

Before this, I had taken apart a scrap movement (2409) to practice basic skills with my tweezers, screwdrivers, and so on. This movement is still in pieces and I'll only use it for spare parts. The second 2409 I didn't just take apart but also cleaned and reassembled but wasn't too concerned with lubricating and other fine details. It was mostly just for practice. I may want to service it again at a later time.

The status of my third movement (my qualifying piece), which came from a lot of four 2409s that I bought on eBay for $10, wasn't too dirty and looked perfectly undamaged. The only problem seemed to be a broken main spring.

Once finished with the service and replacing the main spring, I put on a new Radio Room dial (that was lying around) and some standard Amphibian hands on it. I then ran it continually in a movement holder under a glass for a couple of weeks in anticipation of a Timegrapher that I had ordered. During this time it seemed to be doing just fine, although I didn't measure it as I was waiting for the Timegrapher.

So, come the _*BIG DAY*_; my Timegrapher had just arrived from eBay. I mounted the movement in a left over Vostok case, wound it up and put it on the Timegrapher, and the following is what came out:



















































Needless to say; this, for sure, was very disappointing!

It took me a few days to recover from my disappointment. I then opened up the case back, had a good look inside, didn't see anything suspicious, _at all_, blew it lightly with my dust blower, lightly screwed on the case back lid, and put it back on the Timegrapher. This time around, to my astonishment, it was running like clockwork! The amplitude was as good as can be expected from a Vostok 24xx movement (perhaps even better!?), and the beat error was less than 0.4 milliseconds (same as before). After having adjusted the beat error and the rate here are the Timegrapher readings:












































Needless to say; I felt extremely relieved, proud and happy!

The big question now is; _why did I get the horrible amplitude the first time around?_ I've been scrutinizing it in and out but I just can't come up with a plausible explanation. The only thing I can come to think of is that the case back lid might have pressed on one or several bridges. I did screw it on very hard the first time around (Amphibia style), and pretty lightly the second time around. This lid is definitely thinner than that of the Amphibians.

Comrades, if anyone of you has any idea about what could have caused the very low amplitude and/or have some reflections you'd like to share about the Timegrapher readings, please let me hear it, and thanks for reading!


----------



## mariomart

Matt asked if I could take a few measurements of some Vostok bezels and supply the results. There are way too many variations of bezel so I just selected what would probably represent a broad range, I'm sure I've missed the ones you really want :-d

What I noticed is that the older bezels from the Vostok 119 Tonneau watches all had a slightly smaller inner diameter than their modern counterparts. This could in part be due to the 119 having a very low profile domed crystal that blended well with the contour of the bezel.

I couldn't find an easy way to describe and list the results, so I figured a big azzed picture would have to do.

I hope this comes as a handy reference to some enthusiasts. Also please bear in mind that my measurements might be ever so slightly different to others due to variables such as wear on the bezel etc.


----------



## VWatchie

mariomart said:


> Matt asked if I could take a few measurements of some Vostok bezels and supply the results.


Great stuff! Thanks!


----------



## japocc

Hello all you amazing Vostok-modders. I am in the process of modding a couple of these beauties and have found this thread an amazing resource - big thanks @mattbeme!! I do however have a couple of questions that I haven't gotten answered yet (I've read the whole thread but if I missed this, then please correct me):
- Do the vintage Vostoks generally have the same kind of cases as the modern ones? I.e. should new bezels generally fit also vintage cases? Anything particular to keep in mind here?
- Does anyone have any tips on which aftermarket bezel to get if you want the watch to be as slim as possible? I really love Dr.Seikostain's bezels, but they do seem to be a bit thick? Recommendations?
- Any good tips on how to get a more vintage feel on a bezel and insert to match older vintage style dials and cases? Often the lume is a problem as the new lume contrasts to the vintage yellow lume. Also the general style of a new insert is shiny and clean. Any good tips on how to 'wear them down?

Many thanks!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## saturnine

japocc said:


> Hello all you amazing Vostok-modders. I am in the process of modding a couple of these beauties and have found this thread an amazing resource - big thanks @mattbeme!! I do however have a couple of questions that I haven't gotten answered yet (I've read the whole thread but if I missed this, then please correct me):
> - Do the vintage Vostoks generally have the same kind of cases as the modern ones? I.e. should new bezels generally fit also vintage cases? Anything particular to keep in mind here?
> - Does anyone have any tips on which aftermarket bezel to get if you want the watch to be as slim as possible? I really love Dr.Seikostain's bezels, but they do seem to be a bit thick? Recommendations?
> - Any good tips on how to get a more vintage feel on a bezel and insert to match older vintage style dials and cases? Often the lume is a problem as the new lume contrasts to the vintage yellow lume. Also the general style of a new insert is shiny and clean. Any good tips on how to 'wear them down?


1. Yes, but you have to beware of crown tolerance. Some bezels are for the wider cases (090, 110) & will therefore interfere with crowns on the narrower cases (all vintage + 420, 710, etc.)

2. I haven't handled in person any aftermarket bezels but of the images I have seen they all stand proud of the crystal shoulder (edge), but I believe still below the peak of the crystal, so it depends on your definition of slim. IMO, if you want slim, you're best sticking with OEM bezels or bezels that copy OEM styles.
-here's an example of a bezel hitting right at the crystal shoulder but this one in particular is for the larger cases
-same bezel but for the smaller cases & you will notice a cutout along the bottom for the crown:
NEW! BEZEL TO VOSTOK Vostok Amphibian watches without insert №2 | eBay

3. Bake it in the oven to try to darken the lume, with or without wet coffee grounds on the pip. To age it, try gentle sanding w/fine-grit sandpaper or scotch brite / gently bleach the insert / pop it in a box of bolts & shake it around / skip stones on a river - but change the stone to your bezel & the river to a concrete slab. Then polish up the jagged edges (cape cod or steel wool) for a timeworn look. Faux aging is probably best performed on the case & bezel together otherwise you're not likely to match the "age".


----------



## japocc

saturnine said:


> 1. Yes, but you have to beware of crown tolerance. Some bezels are for the wider cases (090, 110) & will therefore interfere with crowns on the narrow...


Wow - great tips and help, much appreciated! I will give this a try and let you guys know the result.. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GoodEyeSniper

My Amphibia has a very sluggish date roll over. are there any "simple" repairs that address this, is it indicative of a worn/broken part, or something that needs adjustment/cleaning/oiling?

I want to crack it open and attempt to regulate it anyways, figure I might as well address the date rollover if I can.

Basically it takes from about midnight to 3am to fully hit the next date. Meanwhile my blue "submarine" dial clacks instantly into place a few minutes after midnight (It's woken me up while sleeping with the watch on) and I'd love to get that back. I believe it used to firmly click into place and at some point it turned sluggish.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

GoodEyeSniper said:


> My Amphibia has a very sluggish date roll over.


See MattBrace answer below


----------



## MattBrace

GoodEyeSniper said:


> My Amphibia has a very sluggish date roll over. are there any "simple" repairs that address this, is it indicative of a worn/broken part, or something that needs adjustment/cleaning/oiling?
> 
> I want to crack it open and attempt to regulate it anyways, figure I might as well address the date rollover if I can.
> 
> Basically it takes from about midnight to 3am to fully hit the next date. Meanwhile my blue "submarine" dial clacks instantly into place a few minutes after midnight (It's woken me up while sleeping with the watch on) and I'd love to get that back. I believe it used to firmly click into place and at some point it turned sluggish.


More than likely you have a broken jumper arm, this is what snaps the date wheel along, without it the date wheel will still change but it will take much longer.
a pretty simple repair and parts are plentiful.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

MattBrace said:


> More than likely you have a broken jumper arm


Note: the arm may be silver or gold (brass). They are the same part and completely interchangeable.

Attention !!  it is not advised to perform a 'quick date change' on a Vostok by moving the hands past 12 then back to 9 then back again past 12. Yes, this is fast and easy but it may break this jumper spring / arm or damage the cam pin.

On page 1 I gave instructions to perform this but it was not known at the time of the damage this can cause. Since then there have been some reports of damage. I now do not recommend it. However, it appears that many owners use this method occasionally and have not experienced problems.


----------



## VWatchie

GoodEyeSniper said:


> My Amphibia has a very sluggish date roll over. are there any "simple" repairs that address this, is it indicative of a worn/broken part, or something that needs adjustment/cleaning/oiling?
> 
> *I want to crack it open and attempt to regulate it **anyways**, figure I might as well address the date rollover if I can.*
> 
> Basically it takes from about midnight to 3am to fully hit the next date. Meanwhile my blue "submarine" dial clacks instantly into place a few minutes after midnight (It's woken me up while sleeping with the watch on) and I'd love to get that back. I believe it used to firmly click into place and at some point it turned sluggish.


Unfortunately, the date complication is located at the bottom side (dial side) of the watch so you would at least have to take it out of its case and remove the hands and dial to be able to have a look at it. Other than that I'm afraid I have no other help to offer you. I'd be very interested to learn what's causing it though, so please keep us posted. Thanks!

EDIT:
Oops, didn't see there were already some excellent replies! Thanks!


----------



## The_Horologist

Just bought a amphibia 710 scuba dude. Also ordered a black shark bezel, bezel insert, and clear case-back. Going to order custom second hand as well soon from dr. Seikostein. May have someone else install the hands, but ill attempt to matte the case. Pictures to come!! Thanks for the great info-center. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Matt_Bored_O

.
_*UPDATE: *_

Hands: Igor IV has added more hands
- this is the new chart









*Hands:*

IgorIV (WUS) : Ukraine

Made to Fit:

- Amphibia : Modern and Vintage
- Komandirskie : Modern and Vintage
- _all_ Vostok watches with 24xx (Modern) and 22xx (Vintage) movements

---------------------------------

*Hour & Minute: ( H & M )*

- fit ALL modern / ALL vintage: Amphibia and Komandirskie

- stainless steel or brass

- ready to install: no modifications necessary

- all hands are sold with Lume paint applied
-- it is a mid-grade lume / better than standard Vostok lume

- you can request hands _without _lume if you want to apply your own

---------------------

*Seconds: ( S )*

**S* hand size are _different_ for: Modern and Vintage

- Modern: 24xx movement: 0.17 mm 
- Vintage: 22xx movement: 0.20 mm

-- these are common sizes for Quartz watches: most Quartz S hands should fit but must be no longer than the length of a Vostok S hand. Shorther S hands are no problem. 
--- S hands are measured from the mounting hole to the tip 
(see the data in the 'Hands' section of the Guide)

** Quartz S hands _must_ have a 'pipe' or 'barrel' versus a simple hole to mount. 
- the S hand pinion onto which the S hand is mounted is recessed into the Cannon Pinion. 
-- this is the part on which the M hand is mounted.

---------------------
*
Lume:*

All hands are sold with Lume paint applied unless you request hands without lume

- shipped from Ukraine

Note: Ukranian Post service is often faster and more reliable than the Russian Post, 
especially for addresses beyond Europe

*------------------------------------------

How To: Order

*
- List of all hands:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...N68Aw/viewform

- same hands as the chart I have given but any changes Igor makes will appear first on his list

- Contact Igor: WUS account
https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=266266

Give Igor:

- Part # 
- Quanitity
- Do you want them Lumed or not Lumed

After you send your order, Igor will contact you with the total price.
He will give you instructions for payment.

-------------------------------------------

- if you purchase hands form Igor, please post photos and a review

- if you have a problem with the hands, do not hesitate to contact Igor and discuss your concerns.
He is willing to listen and willing to improve the designs

Post your photos and review:

1. 'Votok Mods'

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/vostok-mod-revival-4188578.html

2. Igor's Thread: _'Custom Dials and Hands'_

Custom dials and hands.

-------------------------------------------

*Notes:*

- hands may be painted with model type paint and a paint thinner / solvent

!!! Be very careful when installing, applying lume or painting the hands. 
The metal is not as strong as original hands and they may bend.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*2416 Automatic : Parts Diagrams*

























- diagrams supplied by: Meranom

---------------------------------------------------

*Notes:*

- all 24xx types use the same basic parts

- 2409 / 2415 do not have date / calendar mechanism

- all parts are interchangeable between all 24xx models except:

-- Automatic models have an extra 'Auto. Winding Bridge' with special parts not found on Manual winding models
-- Cannon Pinion and Seconds Pinion of models _without_ calendar _cannot _be installed in models _with_ calendar
-- Mainspring: Automatic models have a different type 
-- models with Day / Night wheel have a few unique parts for this mechanism

Need more clearance for hands on a 2409?
- install 2414 or 2416 Cannon and S pinions: they are taller = more clearance from dial face

---------------------------
*
How To: Order 24xx Parts*

- MERANOM will allow you to order parts for the movements

Send a message with the following information:

- you _must_ specify the Part Numbers as shown in the diagrams
- you _must_ specify quantity

If you require parts for non - 2416: ex. 2409 / 2415 :

- you can use the same part numbers for the other models because most parts are interchangeable (except as noted above)

Remember: you must specify Part Numbers and Quantities
- they will not accept a description of the parts

---------------------------
*
Notes:
*
- part supplies may be limited and may be available only when the factory produces the movements

- you may also consider purchasing an entire movement either new or used to provide spare parts
-- MERANOM and several ebay sellers sell new movements and used Vostok watches can be purchased through many ebay sellers

*Some parts are sold separately already* through MERANOM, Zenitar, asap31, favinov and sometimes other ebay sellers:

Parts such as:

- Reversing Wheels:_ see diagram part: г_Ю6.379.002 ( чн-514мy-11a )

- Mainspring: seller will specify Auto. or Manual (2416 or 2409/2414)
-- Auto. _see diagram part_: гЮ6.323.039 ( чн-514м-y18 )


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O, thanks for your posts about IgorIV's hands and the parts diagrams! Very interesting and useful! :-!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

FernandoFuenzalida said:


> ..... the Guide is great!!
> 
> Do you plan on doing something similar with the Komandiskie??


Yes. When time permits.


----------



## siblingchris

This may be a stupid question but I've searched and couldn't find the answer. I seem to recall reading about this somewhere but just can't spot it...

So my 960SE has the top of the crown sort of coated blue. I can't tell if it's a protective film and didn't want to start scratching at it and making a mess if I was wrong. Can anyone offer advice? Thanks.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Protective film.


----------



## mrwomble

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> Protective film.


I recommend using a toothpick, gets the film off without scratching the metal.


----------



## VWatchie

I'm planning on taking a Vostok 2415 of mine apart for servicing. Having serviced a few 2409s I'm familiar with most of the process but I need info on how to tackle the parts of the automatic winding system. I'm always afraid of damaging things and of springs and the like flying into space. I browsed Ratfaced Git's videos but he only takes a 2415 (and 2416B) somewhat apart. Any tips on videos or posts on how to proceed?

Thanks comrades and have a nice weekend!


----------



## VWatchie

24 Hours said:


> (---) I need info on how to tackle the parts of the automatic winding system (---)


Found it :roll:, and I think it should be helpful enough!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*Repair / Disassembly / Assembly: 22xx and 24xx*

p. 10 post #97


----------



## VWatchie

In preparation for eventually servicing a 2416B movement, I'm servicing a 2414A (my first) to make myself familiar with the date complication. Before this, I've only been working on 2409 movements which I'm now beginning to feel pretty well familiar with and this made me notice an unexpected difference.

The watch I'm working on is a "scrap" Komandirskie that I picked up on eBay for a few dollars. As can be seen in the picture it has the _3AKA3_ label on the dial.









What I wonder is if the difference I found is related to the fact that it is a 2414A movement or the fact that it is a 3AKA3 "version", or that the explanation is something entirely different?

So, the difference I found is that the cannon pinion, the seconds hand pinion, and the cylinder of the hour wheel is taller than that of the 2409 movement. For example here is a picture of the cannon pinion of the 2414A (right) and the cannon pinion of a 2409 (left) side by side.









My guess is that these parts need to be taller to make room for the date wheel, i.e. that it is a characteristic of the 2414A movement, and consequently, these parts (cannon pinion, seconds hand pinion, and hour wheel) are not interchangeable with the 2409 movement, no?

My next question concerns the hands. As can be seen in these pictures, the hands are rusty, and as can be seen on the dial, the underside of the hour hand has been scraping into the dial. I'd like to keep these hands but I need to get rid of the rust, at least on the underside of the hour hand. I'm afraid that if I try to scrape off the rust I'll scrape off the corroded lume too. Any recommendation!? Out of curiosity, should I want to replace the hands, would standard 24xx hands fit?















EDIT:

As it's been a couple of days since I posted the above and no one has replied, I just want to add that I'm planning to dismantle one or two more 2414s in the coming months or so. I then hope to be able to conclude whether the taller cannon pinion, seconds hand pinion, and hour wheel is a characteristic of the 2414 or not. I'll report back then!


----------



## VWatchie

I'm happy to report that comrade schnurrp has confirmed that the cannon pinion, seconds hand pinion, and hour wheel of the Vostok 2414A and the Vostok 2409 are not interchangeable. Valuable information, so thank you very much!

(I'm sure this information is available elsewhere on the Internet, perhaps even here on WUS, but hopefully, this post will be useful to some future wannabe Russian watchmaker just like me ;-))


----------



## VWatchie

I forgot to mention that I made the replacement just a few days after I wrote the below post. It was a pretty straight forward operation. For anyone in the same situation looking for advice, please feel free to PM me and I'll try to assist!



24 Hours said:


> Nine months ago or so while taking my first steps trying to learn a bit about watchmaking, I'm pretty sure I accidentally ruined my Amphibian SE 710555S and wasn't able to fix it. As I was so fond to this watch (it's still one of my definitive favorites) I decided to replace the movement with a brand new 2415 movement. The full story here.
> 
> It was only after this that I learned that the hands of the 2415 SE movement wouldn't fit the regular 2415 movement. Dmitry at Meranom.com then told me that what I had to do was to "replace the minute and second pins". At that time it was simply beyond my level of watchmaking knowledge, abilities, and tools to do so, so I decided to get some really beautiful hands from IgorIV (called cathedral hands, as I later learned from saturnine) and mount them on the normal 2415 movement.
> 
> Now, nine months later I'm happy to say I have gained the knowledge, skills, and tools to make the replacement. So last night I emailed Dmitry and asked him if these were the parts he was referring to (please see the images), and he very quickly confirmed it was. Фантастика!
> View attachment 12439715
> 
> *Seconds hand pinion (seconds pin)*
> 
> View attachment 12439719
> 
> *Cannon pinion (minute pin)*
> 
> Now, Dmitry refers to these parts as the "minute pin" and the "second pin". Generally, I believe these parts are called _"cannon pinion"_ (minute pin) and _"seconds hand __pinion__"_ (seconds pin), but please correct me if I'm wrong!
> 
> I didn't think I would have to ask Dmitry to confirm this because I had gotten myself a digital precision vernier caliper with a repeatability of 0.01 millimeters with the plan of simply comparing the measurements of these parts. However, as the differences in diameters were minimal (to say the least) I still decided to get in touch with Dmitry to make absolutely sure.
> 
> I still haven't made the replacement but plan to do so soon. Once finished I'll let you know how it worked out and hopefully, I'll have the time to make a guide about how to do it.
> 
> I guess the following info isn't super useful and may not be 100 % precise, but for what it's worth here are my measuring results.
> 
> _Seconds hand pinion diameter of the top section (right were the __second's__ hand is fitted):
> 2415: 0.17__millimetres__.
> 2415SE: 0.17__millimetres__.
> No difference!
> 
> Seconds hand pinion height:
> 2415: 5.28 millimeters.
> 2415SE: 5.69 millimeters.
> 
> __Cannon pinion diameter__ of the top section (right __where__ the minute hand is fitted):
> 2415: 0.85__millimetres__.
> 2415SE: 0.87 millimetres.
> 
> Cannon pinion height:
> 2415: 2.62__millimetres__.
> 2415SE: 2.57 millimetres._


----------



## VWatchie

*Some Vostok 24xx Cannon pinion approx. heights:*

2409: 2.09 millimetres.
2414A: 2.58 millimetres.
2415: 2.62 millimetres.
2415SE: 2.57 millimetres (Meranom's SE Amphibians).


----------



## dmnc

I had a set of aftermarket hands recently where I was unable to get the seconds hand to mount on a 2409. There didn’t seem to be enough depth on the tube.

I assumed that the problem was with the manufacturer but the above indicates it could potentially have been 2409 vs 2415/6 issue.

Has anyone else experienced this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BoosDaddy

A question...
I've got an 090 on the way with a 22xx movement in it.
Can I replace it with a 24xx movement?
Anything I need to be aware of...give more thought to (stem length, etc.)?
Thanks for any information.
Have changed several movements to a variety of cases, but first 22xx replacement.


----------



## VWatchie

BoosDaddy said:


> A question...
> I've got an 090 on the way with a 22xx movement in it.
> Can I replace it with a 24xx movement?
> Anything I need to be aware of...give more thought to (stem length, etc.)?
> Thanks for any information.
> Have changed several movements to a variety of cases, but first 22xx replacement.


If it is indeed a 090 case and provided its dimensions are the same as a modern 090 case, a 24xx movement will fit provided you have a suitable movement fixing ring. I have zero experience of going from a 22xx to a 24xx movement but yes, stem length must be considered, of course, and I wouldn't be surprised if you need other hands as well. Other than that I think you should be fine. Hope someone with more experience can enlighten us! Good luck!


----------



## BoosDaddy

Thank you:0)
It arrived. Old 090 but with 2414 movement in very, very bad shape. Yay!!!
Swapped out with movement, face, hands and stripped bezel I had laying around waiting for something to do.
Now everyone is happy. But 18mm strap looks weirdly out of proportion.
Still wondering about 24xx replacing 22xx though...may try that, but no hurry.
Thanks again.


----------



## saturnine

BoosDaddy said:


> Thank you:0)
> It arrived. Old 090 but with 2414 movement in very, very bad shape. Yay!!!
> Swapped out with movement, face, hands and stripped bezel I had laying around waiting for something to do.
> Now everyone is happy. But 18mm strap looks weirdly out of proportion.
> Still wondering about 24xx replacing 22xx though...may try that, but no hurry.
> Thanks again.


FYI, an "old 090" case, if it indeed has 18mm lugs, is actually a _*119 Tonneau*_ case. The modern equivalent, the 090 - which retains the shape of the 119, has 22 mm lugs & I believe has slightly larger dimensions. Also, it is sold only with a polished or bead blasted finish rather than the radial brushing pattern of the vintage 119.


----------



## watchsmith

Good afternoon fellow Comrades,

I am pretty much decided to get my first Vostok watch. I have never owned a russian before. 

I just need some clarification on the seller dmit_bakh from ebay.

Any feedback from anyone who had bought from him? Are his watches authentic?

Also, most ebay sellers give one year warranty. But the scuba dude model has 10 years warranty, as far as I know. 
In the event of the wactch breaking in a couple years from now, who will provide me with the assistance? Is there any seller I can buy from to have the full 10 year warranty?

Have a great week you guys!


----------



## congo

Good afternoon comrade watchsmith,


watchsmith said:


> I just need some clarification on the seller dmit_bakh from ebay.
> Any feedback from anyone who had bought from him? Are his watches authentic?


I purchased two of my Amphibias new from him last year. No problems, both are working fine.


----------



## mariomart

watchsmith said:


> Also, most ebay sellers give one year warranty. But the scuba dude model has 10 years warranty, as far as I know.
> In the event of the wactch breaking in a couple years from now, who will provide me with the assistance? Is there any seller I can buy from to have the full 10 year warranty?
> 
> Have a great week you guys!


The standard warranty period is only 1 year. The "10 year" quote that you mention is the "service period" which basically means that the watch should not require any lubrication, regular servicing, etc for 10 years, it is not a warranty, so should anything happen beyond the first year of ownership the onus is on you.


----------



## 24h

Great post, jsut read through all of it!
Apart from the case with of 43mm vs 41mm, what is the difference between the 110 and 100?

I see that the 110 does not have curved lugs, are the 100s curved?
I was set on the 110 but after reading it's not good for small wrists I'm kind of turned off by it.

Thanks!


----------



## VWatchie

So, finally I've finished servicing my very first Vostok 2414 in the form of this (IMO) stunning gold colored blue submarine Komandirskie which I "won" on eBay for $45 + $10 shipping from banqq2 recommended by mroatman. I should mention that the strap was not included. It really reminds me of Satunine's brass watch, and I've wanted something like that for a looong time!

Before servicing the movement it was a bit slow to start as I had to wind it quite a bit and then lightly tap it in my hand to make it tick. Now it seems much more alert, but I still need to put it on my Timegrapher to see how it's really doing (hoping for the best). As the ratfaced git says on his YouTube channel, the date complication isn't very complicated at all. As a matter of fact I was surprised how easy it was to deal with. I'd say, if you know how to service a 2409, a 2414 poses no real new challenge. A couple of things to be aware of is that the screws holding the setting lever spring (the cover over the keyless works) and the screws holding the calendar cover plate are very similar but slightly different. So, it's a good thing to take some macro images of these screws before mixing them in the same cleaning basket. Also, as mentioned in a previous post on this thread, the cannon pinion, seconds hand pinion, and hour wheel of the Vostok 2414 and the Vostok 2409 are not interchangeable.

Definitely and already a favorite in my collection!


----------



## jonaco

watchsmith said:


> Good afternoon fellow Comrades,
> 
> I am pretty much decided to get my first Vostok watch. I have never owned a russian before.
> 
> I just need some clarification on the seller dmit_bakh from ebay.
> 
> Any feedback from anyone who had bought from him? Are his watches authentic?
> 
> Also, most ebay sellers give one year warranty. But the scuba dude model has 10 years warranty, as far as I know.
> In the event of the wactch breaking in a couple years from now, who will provide me with the assistance? Is there any seller I can buy from to have the full 10 year warranty?
> 
> Have a great week you guys!


Just received one from him that I'm in the process of modding. Definitely authentic Vostok but it took a LONG time to arrive to US (almost 60 days). I used him because he accepted offers below listed price but I'm not sure I'd do it again. Saving $15 off Meranom's price wasn't worth the extra 35-40 day wait to me.


----------



## natrmrz

just learning about Vostok's and Amphibia's. This thread is a wealth of knowledge. thanks


----------



## pinchegato

I got my first Amphibia, 710 model. It's a great watch. 

The second day I had it, I dropped it. The impact dislodged one of the lume dots, and now it's floating around the dial. 

I've also noticed that the rotor makes more noise than it used to--kind of a rattling noise. But the watch still seems to work great, averaging +3 seconds per day when I leave it crown up overnight. Should I try to take the caseback off to see what's going on with the rotor? I have almost no experience with watches--this is my first automatic. 

I'm also interested in brushing the case with scotch-brite. Any guides on how to do that?


----------



## VWatchie

pinchegato said:


> I got my first Amphibia, 710 model. It's a great watch.
> 
> The second day I had it, I dropped it. *The impact dislodged one of the **lume** dots, and now it's floating around the dial.*
> 
> I've also noticed that the rotor makes more noise than it used to--kind of a rattling noise. But the watch still seems to work great, averaging +3 seconds per day when I leave it crown up overnight. Should I try to take the caseback off to see what's going on with the rotor? I have almost no experience with watches--this is my first automatic.
> 
> I'm also interested in brushing the case with scotch-brite. Any guides on how to do that?


Annoying, but probably nothing to worry about. If you want to remove the floating dot you will (of course) need to remove the movement from the case, and then blow it away. This "Ratfaced git-video will show you the procedure (just skip the part about removing the hands). If you wish to put a new lume dot on the missing spot you might find this video somewhat helpful.

Not sure it is the rotor that rattles, but you could always try to make sure the rotor screw sits thight. Just make sure to cover the balance wheel (with its sensitive hairspring) by rotating the rotor plate over it before you try that. Slipping into the hairspring with a screwdriver is _not a good thing_. Also, while you're at it, have a _good look_ around using a strong magnifier, and if you're lucky you might find the source of the rattling sound. I really haven't got any idea about what "the problem" could be, but I think it's a good idea to at least have a look so that there aren't any dislodged parts (very unlikely though) that could damage the hairspring.

You will of course need some basic watchmaker tools to perform the above. Do not try it with the tools that you'll find in the toolbox or the kitchen drawer. If you do, bad things _will_ happen.

Good luck!


----------



## Aidanm

I received a 2414 today from Meranom for a custom build I’m working on.

I noticed that the movement didn’t come with any screws to fix it to a movement holder so I borrowed ones from another 2416 I had.

Strange thing was that I couldn’t get the 2414 to fit into a metal movement holder I purchased from Meranom but it fit the plastic movement holders ok.

Is this an expected difference? I installed a 2409 into a Meranom metal movement holder without any issue but was surprised the 2414 didn’t fit.

Is it any issue of the movement holder or are the screws different between 2414 and 2416?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VWatchie

I'd like to polish/buff/refinish the case of this watch (see below) but I wonder if the golden color is just a thin coating (PVD) on top of stainless steel, or if it is solid brass, or something else? My plan is to use these refinishing pads. I worry that I might ruin the surface.


----------



## 24h

VWatchie said:


> I'd like to polish/buff/refinish the case of this watch (see below) but I wonder if the golden color is just a thin coating (PVD) on top of stainless steel, or if it is solid brass, or something else? My plan is to use these refinishing pads. I worry that I might ruin the surface.


Someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding a lot of old Vostok watches are actually brass with a chrome plating.
This one could be missing all of the plating.

Are you not the original owner?

Maybe someone else can chime in


----------



## VWatchie

24h said:


> Someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding a lot of old Vostok watches are actually brass with a chrome plating.
> This one could be missing all of the plating.
> 
> Are you not the original owner?
> 
> Maybe someone else can chime in


Thanks for your input! According to schnurrp the case is made of brass with a thin Titanium Nitrate coating. I've tried to polish it with Autosol and cotton swabs with substantial improvement. The surface becomes super clean and micro scratches are removed making it quite a bit shinier. However, this method is a bit too tedious for me so I've invested in a Dremel tool (approx. $28) and felt buffing pads for it. The plan is to apply Autosol, let it dry, and then buff it with the Dremel tool. I'll try to report back when I've tried this.


----------



## 24h

VWatchie said:


> Thanks for your input! According to schnurrp the case is made of brass with a thin Titanium Nitrate coating. I've tried to polish it with Autosol and cotton swabs with substantial improvement. The surface becomes super clean and micro scratches are removed making it quite a bit shinier. However, this method is a bit too tedious for me so I've invested in a Dremel tool (approx. $28) and felt buffing pads for it. The plan is to apply Autosol, let it dry, and then buff it with the Dremel tool. I'll try to report back when I've tried this.


Good luck!
I've been thinking of purchasing some old Russian watches and cleaning them/polishing/fixing movements (keep in mind I'm a beginner).
I'm not sure what to do about the watches that are plated with brass as the base metal...can't really clean them up without revealing ALL the brass


----------



## VWatchie

24h said:


> Good luck!
> I've been thinking of purchasing some old Russian watches and cleaning them/polishing/fixing movements (keep in mind I'm a beginner).
> I'm not sure what to do about the watches that are plated with brass as the base metal...*can't really clean them up without revealing ALL the brass*


My method so far has been water, detergent, toothpaste, Autosol and a toothbrush, and it has worked really well to get them clean. It has even removed micro scratches which really helps them shine. Of course, removing dents is a completely different story and that's not really what I'm after. I'm basically looking for an efficient way the get the cases ultra clean while removing as little of the plating as possible. Anyway, I hope to try my "new method" soon and will let you know the result.


----------



## VWatchie

VWatchie said:


> Thanks for your input! According to schnurrp the case is made of brass with a thin Titanium Nitrate coating. I've tried to polish it with Autosol and cotton swabs with substantial improvement. The surface becomes super clean and micro scratches are removed making it quite a bit shinier. However, this method is a bit too tedious for me so *I've invested in a Dremel tool (approx. $28) and felt buffing pads for it. The plan is to apply Autosol, let it dry, and then buff it with the Dremel tool.* I'll try to report back when I've tried this.


I've now tried this method, and my conclusion is that _it doesn't improve anything_; not the end result and not the time it takes to clean the watch case. Under the stereo microscope, I also saw wear on the coating. Anyway, I'll have other uses for the rotary tool (guess I'll have use for it polishing SS cases). So, back to toothbrush, toothpaste, and detergent which gives an excellent, if not even an optimal result.


----------



## saturnine

VWatchie said:


> I've now tried this method, and my conclusion is that _it doesn't improve anything_; not the end result and not the time it takes to clean the watch case. Under the stereo microscope, I also saw wear on the coating. Anyway, I'll have other uses for the rotary tool (guess I'll have use for it polishing SS cases). So, back to toothbrush, toothpaste, and detergent which gives an excellent, if not even an optimal result.


Not to worry. I too bought a rotary tool for watch modding. While I have yet to use it for that purpose, I have found it useful in many other projects besides.


----------



## VWatchie

Sluggish Date Roll Over

This topic has been covered pretty extensively on f10 before, but I thought the following might add something to someone. So here goes&#8230;

Sometime ago there was a post about the Vostok 2414 date ring moving very slowly when changing dates (sluggish date roll over). Several helpful replies about how to remedy this was given. Little did I know at that time how useful those posts were going to be to me.

To my distress, a couple of weeks or so ago my 3AKA3 MO CCCP Black Komandirskie Tankist for no obvious reason stopped ticking. When this happened I just didn't have the time to look into it. I was quite disappointed as I had spent so much time and care to restore it and repair it. I really didn't have a clue about what could be wrong until and I noticed that the date ring was moving in slow motion at the time for the date change as seen in this video.






Armed with the knowledge gained in this thread I assumed the problems were related to the calendar cam spring so I decided to look into it and document it in this thread.

Below is what I found under the dial; Yes, a broken calendar cam spring!









When I saw the spring I realized I must have broken it when trying to quick set the date by going back and forth between 8 and 12 clock (as Matt_Bored_O warned us about).

After having retrieved and cleaned a spare calendar cam spring from my lot of scrap 2414s I simply replaced the broken spring and the problems were gone. I.e., the watch is now ticking just fine and the date changes with a snap as it should.

The following pictures demonstrate the reassembly (disassembly was made in the reverse order):

















































































The following two excellent videos by the "Ratface Git" demonstrate how to disassemble and reassemble the date ring, calendar cover plate, and the date ring jumper spring, but not the parts that I show above.

And here is the final result!


----------



## gorelowo11

*Good job!*


----------



## VWatchie

_EDIT: For anyone interested I also posted the below in a separated thread and got a reply there!​_
Comrades, I need your input/advice/help!

I am in the process of reassembling a 2415 movement. My concern is that the pivot of the first reduction wheel (bottom side) won't reach all the way through the jewel pivot hole of the auto-wind bridge. It only reaches about 1/3 or 1/4 or so of the jewel pivot hole height. Please see the image:









It seems the pivot sits securely in the jewel, but it just doesn't look right, and I fear oiling of the jewel hole won't work as intended. I've taken a look at another 2415 movement that I have and the pivot reaches through the entire jewel pivot hole but not extending above the hole, as is typical and can be seen in the jewel to the left.

Now, should or can I ignore this, or should I take my other 2415 apart and replace the parts one by one in an effort to see what's causing the problem? As far as I can tell when looking at both pivots of the first reduction wheel through my stereomicroscope (40X) there is no damage to it. Also, the auto-wind bridge seems to be sitting perfectly flush with the rest of the movement.


----------



## VWatchie

Here's my first 2415Б dismantled, cleaned, and left to dry... Not sure what "value" this post adds to the forum. Guess I just had a need to share it. :-d


----------



## castilla

What is the differences between amphibia case numbers ? Are they mean something or they are just different designs


Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone aracılığıyla gönderildi


----------



## mariomart

castilla said:


> What is the differences between amphibia case numbers ? Are they mean something or they are just different designs
> 
> Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone aracılığıyla gönderildi


Generally with the modern case numbers the first two digits are the case style and the third digit is the case finish. With Amphibias they are all generally stainless steel so the third digit is normally a "0" which denotes Stainless Steel. The Komandirskie series of watches normally have a case made of base metal brass and the third digit is normally either a "1" which signifies chrome plating or a "9" which denotes a Titanium Nitride coating (Goldish). There are some variations to this rule but they are on the rarer side. Hope this help.


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## VWatchie

.


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## VWatchie

Watchmaking is full of terms and expressions. One of those terms is _"keyless work"_. I can't remember how many times I've pondered this term and its meaning. Until today, when out of a clear blue sky I suddenly realized it means _the mechanics of a watch movement that enables us to wind it without a key_. I'm sure this technology was revolutionary when it was invented. No more misplaced keys that would make our precious timekeeper stop.

Perhaps the above is perfectly obvious to the English speaking members, perhaps even all members, with me being the (slow) exception! :-d


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## gorelowo11

The classic amphibian differs only in the buildings. Any variation. Mostly stainless steel. The mechanism is always self-winding mechanism 2416B 1 calendar. There are options without a calendar. 2415.


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## gorelowo11

VWatchie said:


> Watchmaking is full of terms and expressions. One of those terms is _"keyless work"_. I can't remember how many times I've pondered this term and its meaning. Until today, when out of a clear blue sky I suddenly realized it means _the mechanics of a watch movement that enables us to wind it without a key_. I'm sure this technology was revolutionary when it was invented. No more misplaced keys that would make our precious timekeeper stop.
> 
> Perhaps the above is perfectly obvious to the English speaking members, perhaps even all members, with me being the (slow) exception! :-d


I have not heard of this term in the Russian language. Not that it isn't. Is applied in another case. 
Happy New year!!!


----------



## amstel78

I apologize if this question has been asked and answered already but several searches here and in the main /f10 forum yielded no results for me. I'm looking for the thread or section on "*H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia."*_

Thanks and Happy New Year to all my comrades.


----------



## davidrrd

Hello Guys. 
I am new into the world of Russian watches... And almost all the watches. Have read some of the threads about them and it is fascinating. 
While rummaging in a market in Shanghai the other day I picked my first Vostok Komandirskie in a pretty good shape and really cheap. I was troubled at the beginning about the crown but then I found this thread and all the information is amazing. Watch is keeping good time and everything seems to work as intended. I might service it in a near future just to get to know the machine and make sure everything is in order.

However I would like to ask you guys for some help. I would like to know if there is a way to know the production date (+ / -) and the case number. I am thinking about modding it and would like to buy the right parts. Any help will be highly appreciated.

Thanks to y'all.
David









Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## VWatchie

davidrrd said:


> (---)I would like to know if there is a way to know the production date (+ / -) and the case number. I am thinking about modding it and would like to buy the right parts. Any help will be highly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks to y'all.
> David


I'm guessing case number 43. For example, take a look here. I would expect that some of our expert comrades in the "Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2" should be able to tell you the production date. As far as I know, any hands and dials made for any Komandirskie/Amphibia having a 24xx movement should fit. When it comes to bezels I can't really tell, but I'm sure some other knowledgeable member can enlighten us!


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## VWatchie

amstel78 said:


> I apologize if this question has been asked and answered already but several searches here and in the main /f10 forum yielded no results for me. I'm looking for the thread or section on "*H*_*ow To: Mod Vostok Amphibia."*_
> 
> Thanks and Happy New Year to all my comrades.


Well, this is an excellent thread, and you can also browse the "Vostok Mod - the Revival" thread. Good luck!


----------



## davidrrd

VWatchie said:


> I'm guessing case number 43. For example, take a look here. I would expect that some of our expert comrades in the "Q&A Expertise thread: Is this watch legit or a franken? Part 2" should be able to tell you the production date. As far as I know, any hands and dials made for any Komandirskie/Amphibia having a 24xx movement should fit. When it comes to bezels I can't really tell, but I'm sure some other knowledgeable member can enlighten us!


Hey thanks for your help it looks about right. I think the first time I browsed the website I just saw the golden ones I didn't go further .... Just found one with the same case and dial which will help if modding or getting spare parts. For the production date I'll follow your advise and address my inquiry to the other thread

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Jake_P

Hi Everyone - after using this great forum on and off for a while, I had to take the plunge and finally register. I've always liked watches but never really considered myself an enthusiast. I guess that changed when I recently told my partner that I was buying a new watch and her reply of 'what do you need another watch for?' changed my opinion of myself. We both had a chuckle. 


I only have a few cheap watches at present (none to write home about) though I recently picked up a Seiko 5 SNK809 which I absolutely love and has now led me on to buying more automatics.
So anyway, I've just fallen in love with the great retro styling of the Vostok range and went ahead and bought a blue Scuba dude Amphibian Classic 420059 from Meranom. The history behind these and the quirks just really stood out and while I actively stay away from polished cases, I couldn't help myself on this one.
This leads me onto my questions. From what I can gather from my research is that the bezel is very shiny (I know it's plated brass) which I think isn't going to sit too well with me. I don't mind the case being shiny as long as the bezel is either swapped out for a black/aluminium one or I find a brushed steel option. I've been trawling the web trying to find a brushed steel bezel and can't find anything. I did find the ebay seller dr.seikostain had a nice looking brushed bezel but it looked a little aggresive for me! It's also out of stock however. 


Meranom do a brushed version of the stock bezel that is shipping with my watch which I quite like, though it looks a little rough in the finishing?
Sorry I can't post a direct link as this is my first post but it's located in the Amphibian Classic/Spare Parts/Bezel 42 Brushed section on their site.
Has anyone had experience of this particular bezel?


My other question is about the crown. I asked Meranom if the crown on my watch was steel and they said they now were. I'm assuming they used to be plated like the bezels?
Thanks in advance,
Love the info and the advice from all of you chaps...
Jake.


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## 24h

Jake_P said:


> Hi Everyone - after using this great forum on and off for a while, I had to take the plunge and finally register. I've always liked watches but never really considered myself an enthusiast. I guess that changed when I recently told my partner that I was buying a new watch and her reply of 'what do you need another watch for?' changed my opinion of myself. We both had a chuckle.
> 
> I only have a few cheap watches at present (none to write home about) though I recently picked up a Seiko 5 SNK809 which I absolutely love and has now led me on to buying more automatics.
> So anyway, I've just fallen in love with the great retro styling of the Vostok range and went ahead and bought a blue Scuba dude Amphibian Classic 420059 from Meranom. The history behind these and the quirks just really stood out and while I actively stay away from polished cases, I couldn't help myself on this one.
> This leads me onto my questions. From what I can gather from my research is that the bezel is very shiny (I know it's plated brass) which I think isn't going to sit too well with me. I don't mind the case being shiny as long as the bezel is either swapped out for a black/aluminium one or I find a brushed steel option. I've been trawling the web trying to find a brushed steel bezel and can't find anything. I did find the ebay seller dr.seikostain had a nice looking brushed bezel but it looked a little aggresive for me! It's also out of stock however.
> 
> Meranom do a brushed version of the stock bezel that is shipping with my watch which I quite like, though it looks a little rough in the finishing?
> Sorry I can't post a direct link as this is my first post but it's located in the Amphibian Classic/Spare Parts/Bezel 42 Brushed section on their site.
> Has anyone had experience of this particular bezel?
> 
> My other question is about the crown. I asked Meranom if the crown on my watch was steel and they said they now were. I'm assuming they used to be plated like the bezels?
> Thanks in advance,
> Love the info and the advice from all of you chaps...
> Jake.


I don't really have an answer for your question about the brushed bezel, however, you can always go with one that accepts a bezel insert. Check out Dagaz Watch; they sell the bezel and tons of bezel inserts.









As for the crown, I believe they are still brass with a stainless steel outer shell. You do have the option to purchase the all stainless steel crown. Not only does it look better (in my opinion), it's easier to grip and wind your watch.
They have three versions to fit the correct case shape, this link is for the version compatible with your 420059:
https://meranom.com/en/amphibian-cl...rown-for-vostok-amphibian-71-42-96-cases.html


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## Jake_P

Thanks 24h - appreciate the info/link. I think I will invest in a new crown too as the stock one looks a little like a beer bottle top


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## Sandro8086

I removed the red paint from the indexes and I want to paint them blue, but what can I use? I was thinking about nail polish, but maybe there's a better alternative.


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## mariomart

Sandro8086 said:


> I removed the red paint from the indexes and I want to paint them blue, but what can I use? I was thinking about nail polish, but maybe there's a better alternative.


Go to your local hobby store and purchase either Revell or Humbrol enamel model paint with a "flat" or "satin" finish in the blue you desire. Fill in the areas you want painted, let it dry, and then buff off any excess that went astray. Done


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## milligan

I have a bezel insert question. I recently scraped my AM diver bezel insert, however the bezel itself is in perfect condition. AM Diver doesn’t seem to sell inserts. Where can I purchase an insert for an AM diver bezel one that will fit ? 
Thanks


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## milligan

Update, I purchased an insert from Dagaz and hopefully it will fit, new crown and crystal from Meranom. 
Interesting story behind the watch. My brother surfed in this watch almost every day and it eventually flooded or at least fogged. He gave it me, given the exposure to salt water I told him i just wanted the AM Diver bezel. You can still see some of the bad rust. I cleaned it up and worked a little watch oil into the winding stem. 

The watch came back to life and is keeping perfect time.


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## VWatchie

Comrades, just want to let you know I've started a thread over at watchrepairtalk.com to discuss and document _"Differences between Vostok 24XX parts"_. There isn't much activity in the thread though. Russian watches don't seem much appreciated there, so maybe I'll "move it" to f10. Anyway, so far I've posted about "The Click" and "The Mainspring Barrel".


----------



## dennisbible

milligan said:


> I have a bezel insert question. I recently scraped my AM diver bezel insert, however the bezel itself is in perfect condition. AM Diver doesn't seem to sell inserts. Where can I purchase an insert for an AM diver bezel one that will fit ?
> Thanks


I thought AM sold inserts. There Seiko inserts are flat aren't they?

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk


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## milligan

Yes they do !

It was one of those situations where something is right in front of you but you cant see it.


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## milligan

Yes they do. However the old insert looked okay after it was put back together.


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## Archo

hey folks, i'm completely new to this forum and new to watch collecting. been really intrigued by the story of Vostok and have just ordered an Amphibia 710 that i'm really keen to mod. i think that's one of the greatest attractions to me is the ability to mod it fully for me. however, i just noticed the Amphibia 160 on Meranom, but i cannot find any info for except from various other Russian sellers. has anyone had any hands on experience with this particular version? i know all the innards are the same on all Amphibias, as are the crystals and the backs. i'm wondering more how it wears vs the 710. i bought the 710 because people have said it's a really comfortable case design. also, since i'm wanting to get into modding, are the Seiko style bezels able to fit this version? i know some bezels get in the way of the crown on some versions. anyways, if anyone can help, that would be much appreciated.﻿


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## Prometax

Very good post :-!


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## Czasomierz

Hi guys. First off, many thanks to VWatchie for directing me to this thread and all the previous help. I have this watch with komandirskie's case and amphibian insides (2409a mov). To bring it back to its former glory I decided to polish the plexi up. I took the mechanism out of the case just to be on the safe side. It's my first mechanical, I didn't have any proper tools either. Yup, you can already guess that story does not have a happy ending.

I did my due diligence and watched several vids on disassembling Vostoks. Then I went to a hardware store and purchased a set of mini screwdrivers that I had to file sharpen to fit tiny screws. I used a needle to push in the plunger that releases the stem and took it out without a hitch. So far so good. Onto polishing, I started with toothpaste and was left with a cloudy matt plexi. I tried different toothpaste I had laying around all with the same result. Too coarse I guess. Then I bought K2 polishing paste intended for headlights and that did the job done. It was inexpensive and there is plenty left too. Now I have a beautiful watch that I can't wear and here's how that happened. Sometime between disassembling the watch and having finished polishing I made a terrible decision to put the stem back in the mechanism to see the watch go unobstructed by scratched up plexi. That left me with a balancing act of removing the stem without a proper mechanism holder and with a needle for a plunger pusher down the line. I put in on its side not to put any pressure on hands but when I pushed in the plunger the whole thing slipped. I was already pulling the crown and forced the stem out. Now the watch runs even without it, when I put it in I can wind it but when I pull it further to the time setting position it just comes out. I damaged the mechanism, I just hope it's fixable and I won't have to pay for this learning experience with buying a new one.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Czasomierz said:


> ..... I can wind it but when I pull it further to the time setting position it just comes out......


It may not be broken.
The stem may not be fully engaging when you attempt to insert it.
This is a common problem when the stem is removed.

Try this:

- with the movement in the case, insert the stem then grab it inside the case with tweezers and push it into the movement. 
- the stem may move inward a very small amount and you may hear or feel a slight 'click' as it fully engages.

See this:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/vostok-2416b-winding-stem-will-either-wind-but-not-lock-set-but-not-wind-4724051.html









- photo: Dave Murphy


----------



## 24h

Matt_Bored_O said:


> It may not be broken.
> The stem may not be fully engaging when you attempt to insert it.
> This is a common problem when the stem is removed.
> 
> Try this:
> 
> - with the movement in the case, insert the stem then grab it inside the case with tweezers and push it into the movement.
> - the stem may move inward a very small amount and you may hear or feel a slight 'click' as it fully engages.


I think that's probably the best response. Encountered this the first time I took apart a Vostok movement and using tweezers to push the stem into the movement solved the problem.
It's possible that the keyless works are messed up and preventing the stem from staying in if the stem release pin was pressed too hard (I think).


----------



## milligan

I have an easy question or it may be easy. I want to get a DOXA style stainless steel bracelet for last year‘s project watch. Is one available ?


----------



## VWatchie

Czasomierz said:


> Hi guys. First off, many thanks to VWatchie for directing me to this thread and all the previous help. I have this watch with komandirskie's case and amphibian insides (2409a mov). To bring it back to its former glory I decided to polish the plexi up. I took the mechanism out of the case just to be on the safe side. It's my first mechanical, I didn't have any proper tools either. Yup, you can already guess that story does not have a happy ending.
> 
> I did my due diligence and watched several vids on disassembling Vostoks. Then I went to a hardware store and purchased a set of mini screwdrivers that I had to file sharpen to fit tiny screws. I used a needle to push in the plunger that releases the stem and took it out without a hitch. So far so good. Onto polishing, I started with toothpaste and was left with a cloudy matt plexi. I tried different toothpaste I had laying around all with the same result. Too coarse I guess. Then I bought K2 polishing paste intended for headlights and that did the job done. It was inexpensive and there is plenty left too. Now I have a beautiful watch that I can't wear and here's how that happened. Sometime between disassembling the watch and having finished polishing I made a terrible decision to put the stem back in the mechanism to see the watch go unobstructed by scratched up plexi. That left me with a balancing act of removing the stem without a proper mechanism holder and with a needle for a plunger pusher down the line. I put in on its side not to put any pressure on hands but when I pushed in the plunger the whole thing slipped. I was already pulling the crown and forced the stem out. Now the watch runs even without it, when I put it in I can wind it but when I pull it further to the time setting position it just comes out. I damaged the mechanism, I just hope it's fixable and I won't have to pay for this learning experience with buying a new one.


Making a guess I'd say you dislocated the setting lever. You would have to remove the setting lever spring ("keyless work cover plate") and have a look. I'm sure you can find this in several of the ratfaced git's videos working on Vostok 24XX calibres (they all have the same kind of keyless works). For example, you can try this video here. Good luck!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

VWatchie said:


> Making a guess I'd say you dislocated the setting lever.


Quite Possible.

One time I dislocated the setting yoke.









1.)minute wheel
2.)setting wheel
3.)setting yoke spring
4.)setting yoke
5.)setting lever
6.)sliding pinion
7.)winding pinion

-- photo : Dave Murphy

See Dave's great tutorial: 2416 Service Notes

https://www.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-2416b-service-notes-240805.html


----------



## drwelby

Is the crystal on the older ANTIMAGNETIC-labeled dial, manual wind Amphibia the same as the one used on the more recent automatics?


----------



## mariomart

drwelby said:


> Is the crystal on the older ANTIMAGNETIC-labeled dial, manual wind Amphibia the same as the one used on the more recent automatics?


Yes. It uses the standard Vostok Amphibia crystal


----------



## VWatchie

I believe it was Mark Lovick (YouTube Watch Repair Channel) who said some watch repairers call the yoke a _return bar_. In my opinion, it's a better name but it can be useful to be aware of both names.


----------



## miom

Hello people!

It seems like you are really experts on watches here and I really appreciate your help. I am planning to purchase this beautiful POLJOT watch, but I am not sure about its originality. 
I was wondering if you could help me with this issue. Thank you for your time.


----------



## 24h

miom said:


> Hello people!
> 
> It seems like you are really experts on watches here and I really appreciate your help. I am planning to purchase this beautiful POLJOT watch, but I am not sure about its originality.
> I was wondering if you could help me with this issue. Thank you for your time.


Hello and welcome to the forum!
There is a thread dedicated to questions like this. You can post there: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-part-2-a-4514699.html
Happy to see new people :-!


----------



## alogicalman

Awesome, much more comprehensive than I expected, thanks!!


----------



## Victory Pants

Getting from A to B. Friend from Poland with assist on those mods.









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Kvmil

Hello, i have just quick question.








Will this bezel fit to Komandirskie watch?


----------



## Kvmil

Hello, i have just quick question.
View attachment 13629367


Will this bezel fit to Komandirskie watch?


----------



## mariomart

Kvmil said:


> Hello, i have just quick question.
> 
> Will this bezel fit to Komandirskie watch?


Yes, there is no reason it wouldn't, as Amphibia and Komandirskie cases have the same dimension bezels. Just be aware that large bezels may interfere with the crown.


----------



## oldfox

Big, long and, finally - cut

I had for a long time custom strap, that would fit some tool watch, but was too long for me to wear it comfortly.
















So, strap, prepared to be cut! Here is the surgery room (my kitchen room) and the surgery table.








I need my tool to be sharp. Last year I was at France, and we took to the some fromages to the home - we don't have such at Russia (sanctions, you know - but actually I discovered, that always the most expensive food outside the country of the origin is worse than the cheapest one at the original place of production - also true for kognac/armagnac). The best part that fromages were in ceramics made from very thin clay. So the bottom side is just extremely perfect for sharpening any knife. So - to the work:






7

After 5 minutes I made a small check








Perfectly








And final cut up to the right size for me.








Now it's good


----------



## Slm643

Do you have sand paper or a file, something to maybe round off the corners a little otherwise very nice Indeed, and that is a really nice watch!, I would love to own! 
Those lugs are beautiful, do you know of any other watches like it that are available to purchase? You could PM me if you want! 
Sent from my K92 using Tapatalk


----------



## hiros_new

This is a good way. What I do as well is pushing the mechanism with the finger from the other side towards the stem (first remove the rotor from that place, of course).


----------



## 24h

Has a thin glass caseback ever been produced for manual wind Vostoks?
I've seen versions that have standard threading (for example the Komandirskie 1965 680220), but never with the Russian 2-piece caseback design.


----------



## Pizzocan

24h said:


> Has a thin glass caseback ever been produced for manual wind Vostoks?
> I've seen versions that have standard threading (for example the Komandirskie 1965 680220), but never with the Russian 2-piece caseback design.


I'm interested too!

Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24h said:


> Has a thin glass caseback ever been produced for manual wind Vostoks?


No, not that I am aware of.

However, Meranom and other part suppliers lurk in this forum and read with interest our demands for parts.

Perhaps you should start a separate thread or conduct a poll and if we show enough interest, a thin glass caseback could be produced.

A lower profile Vostok would help to reduce that "Lost In Space" UFO appearance.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.
For those fans of Amphibia who love the tall, UFO appearance, especially when a glass back is installed:

Vostok now brings you.................


----------



## 24h

Matt_Bored_O said:


> No, not that I am aware of.
> 
> However, Meranom and other part suppliers lurk in this forum and read with interest our demands for parts.
> 
> Perhaps you should start a separate thread or conduct a poll and if we show enough interest, a thin glass caseback could be produced.
> 
> A lower profile Vostok would help to reduce that "Lost In Space" UFO appearance.





Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> .
> For those fans of Amphibia who love the tall, UFO appearance, especially when a glass back is installed:
> 
> Vostok now brings you.................
> 
> View attachment 13719877


There would probably be a decent amount of interest. A bonus is that Meranom most likely already has a supplier that can produce this part, due to the two versions they sell for auto-wind movements.
I laughed out loud when I saw that Vostok "UFO" picture :-d


----------



## mariomart

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> .
> For those fans of Amphibia who love the tall, UFO appearance, especially when a glass back is installed:
> 
> Vostok now brings you.................
> 
> View attachment 13719877


Is that a Buyalov ;-)


----------



## mrwomble

mariomart said:


> Is that a Buyalov ;-)


Oooooo, burn!
:'-D

I tapped. I came. A gentleman never talks.


----------



## VWatchie

24h said:


> Has a thin glass caseback ever been produced for manual wind Vostoks?
> I've seen versions that have standard threading (for example the Komandirskie 1965 680220), but never with the Russian 2-piece caseback design.


I prefer the manual versions of the 24XX Vostoks (2409/2414) and I like to put them in Amphibia cases, and it's always a bit of a hassle to find flat Amphibia case backs. It would be nice if Meranom could provide them. And, yes, a flat glass case back version for both Amphibians and Komandirskies would be nice! I think a well cleaned Vostok movement deserves to be on display!


----------



## mariomart

VWatchie said:


> I prefer the manual versions of the 24XX Vostoks (2409/2414) and I like to put them in Amphibia cases, and it's always a bit of a hassle to find flat Amphibia case backs. It would be nice if Meranom could provide them. And, yes, a flat glass case back version for both Amphibians and Komandirskies would be nice! I think a well cleaned Vostok movement deserves to be on display!


Meranom does actually sell the flat case back for 2409/2414

https://meranom.com/en/amphibian-cl...-2409-2414-2403-manual-winding-movements.html


----------



## VWatchie

mariomart said:


> Meranom does actually sell the flat case back for 2409/2414
> 
> https://meranom.com/en/amphibian-cl...-2409-2414-2403-manual-winding-movements.html


Thanks, it's been a while since I last checked! It would seem the popularity of Russian watches is growing. Great, and they do deserve it! Me and comrade EndeavourDK have been trying to promote Russian movements/watches over at WRT but with little, or should I say, no success.


----------



## VWatchie

mariomart said:


> Meranom does actually sell the flat case back for 2409/2414
> 
> https://meranom.com/en/amphibian-cl...-2409-2414-2403-manual-winding-movements.html


Thanks, it's been a while since I last checked! It would seem the popularity of Russian watches is growing. Great, and they do deserve it! Me and comrade EndeavourDK have been trying to promote Russian movements/watches over at WRT but with little, or should I say, no success.


----------



## 24h

Any recommendations for a good polish to use on my acrylic crystals? Plain white toothpaste gives less than desirable results :-d :-d
Meguiar's PlastX? Brasso?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24h said:


> Any recommendations for a good polish to use on my acrylic crystals? ...


Depends upon what you define as 'polish'

1. For removing scratches then a paste with larger grit is necessary.

2. For the final polishing to create the completely clear new appearance AFTER you have removed any scratches / to remove the haze or opaque layer created by scratch removal

Many folks use the term 'Polish' to define all types of grit paste.


----------



## Pizzocan

24h said:


> Any recommendations for a good polish to use on my acrylic crystals? Plain white toothpaste gives less than desirable results :-d :-d
> Meguiar's PlastX? Brasso?


I use the polishing wheel with polishing paste that I used to polish my Seiko SNK...If it worked on metal, it works on plastic just fine

Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


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## 24h

Sorry, I should have been more clear. :-d
I'm talking about the microscopic circular swirls left on my crystal (not and deep scratches).


----------



## VWatchie

24h said:


> Any recommendations for a good polish to use on my acrylic crystals? Plain white toothpaste gives less than desirable results :-d :-d
> Meguiar's PlastX? Brasso?


Well, I guess Polywatch is what most would recommend, and I too use it. However, white plain toothpaste should work well too. Maybe you need to dilute it a bit and remember to not press too hard. Towards the end of the polish go very lightly. Let us know if you give it a try and the result.


----------



## danimur

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



kev80e said:


> I picked up this Radio Room cheap off pre-loved so thought I'd give brushing a go. I'm a little clumsy and often manage to mess up stuff like this , but it's actually not that difficult. I'm sure others are quicker and get better results but for a first attempt I'm pleased with the results. Anybody considering this but like me afraid of messing up a decent watch, mistakes really are easy to correct. Thanks Matt for this guide and encouraging people like me to have a go.
> BEFORE
> View attachment 8168298
> 
> 
> AFTER
> View attachment 8168322
> 
> 
> View attachment 8168370


 off topic I own a few Vostok Amphibia watches with 420 case type. Looking at your photo's I compared with the old 420 cases and I'm loving the old ones better.


----------



## danimur

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Some owners have reported that when they have a Amphibia which suffers from the mysterious 'stopping' problem, they are able to fix it by unscrewing the crown and pulling it out to the time setting position. After setting to the correct time, they will tap or bang the watch down onto a hard surface, crown down.
> Then, the crown is screwed down as normal.
> 
> Sometimes this fixes the problem permanently, sometimes it solves nothing.
> 
> We don't know exactly why this may sometimes fix the problem.
> 
> However, there appears to be some units with a possible problem in the 'keyless works'.
> This is the system of gears and sliding levers, activated by the stem, which engage the winding system and the time setting system.
> 
> Also, some units have 'reverser / reversing wheels' which may seize permanently or occasionally.
> Most likely the clutch mechanism in one of the wheels seizes and this can cause the entire movement to stop.
> 
> So, if either of these problems cause an automatic Vostok movement to stop, it may be possible to re-start the movement
> if the watch is tapped sharply. If the problem is in the keyless works, then it seems reasonable to assume that by giving the crown
> a quick tap, the offending part in the keyless works may be knocked back into its correct position or made free again.
> 
> However, if a reversing wheel clutch is seized, this may not free it.
> The wheel will have to be replaced or a very small amount of the correct oil may possibly free it and possibly prevent seizure in the future.
> 
> ---- Only Vostok _Automatics_ are affected ----
> 
> 2409 and 2414 Manual units do not appear to be affected by these problems.


I have 6 manual winding Wostok Amphibia with 2614 movement and 1 self-winding with 2416B movement. I can state that at the manual winding movements this annoying stop is occurring, too.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

danimur said:


> I have 6 manual winding Wostok Amphibia with 2614 movement and 1 self-winding with 2416B movement. I can state that at the manual winding movements this annoying stop is occurring, too.


The manual movements appear to have very, very few complaints that have been publicly listed.

Your experiences are not common.

Please provide more details.

- What model of manual movements ?
- How old are they?
- How often did you use them? 
- Exactly what are the symptoms of the 'stopping'
- What are the conditions that cause this ?

You say you have Vostok *26*14. This is not a Vostok movement I am familiar with.

Is it *24*14 ?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.
Attention: Are you intrigued by Vostok watches but unsure if you should buy one.???

Here is a new feature of this 'Guide':

*
Wise Words of Vostok Owners (WWVO)*

- forum member '_BreaksThngs_' had this to say:

"_The Amphibia is the perfect blend of design, durability, ease of service, and affordability to be used and not cherished.........

They were built for utility, have a cult following, are durable as hell, and have a ton of people that do their own work on them to keep them running_.."
.
.


----------



## erikbaboden

Does anyone have experience with buying a Vostok directly from the official website? How long does the shipping take (to EU in my case)?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*Videos Wanted:*

Guys, if you have a video of yourself performing mods or repairs to Amphibia or Komandirskie:

Please send me the link.

I want to include the links in the 'Guide'.

You will be given full credit.

Cheers,
Matt B 
.


----------



## NOTSHARP

Matt_Bored_O asked if I could show :

How to remove the chrome "skin" from a Vostok crown.

How I added a little colour to the brass.

Firstly, If I recall correctly, it was onastar who first mentioned the process, so the credit is due to him entirely.

That said, this is how I do it.

Here are the four crowns, commonly available.



It is the third one from the left that we are dealing with.

On the right hand one in this pic, you can see that the chrome skin is crimped over the back of the crown.



It is a five minute job to remove it, using a craft knife, or a scaple, etc.



I use a pin vice to hold the stem. The crown will still rotate of course, but I find it easier to hold.

Pinching the crown to prevent it turning, use the blade to score through the plated skin in one of the knurl grooves.



Depending on how sharp your blade is, six to ten scores with cut through it.



Repeat the process on the opposite side of the crown. The edge will now lift up, with a little help from the point of the blade.



Do the same on the opposite side, and the skin will pull off, as here, along with some others.



The crown that you now have is brass, which a little hand buffing will expose.



Should you wish to add a little "patina", this is what I do.

You will need Gun Blue, de-greaser, and a cotton bud.



Clean the crown with de-greaser, using a cotton bud, then apply the bluing solution with a clean bud. Colour will deepen as more coats are applied.
This is with two coats.



Buffing, or general usage, will expose the brass on the highpoints.

It is the same process that I used on this.



Steve.


----------



## 24h

Anyone know what would be the cause of an hour hand being behind on a 2416 movement?
After about one month, the hour hand is 30 minutes behind. The watch is keeping accurate time, however, when the minute hand is exactly at 12:00 the hour hand is between 11:00 and 12:00.

I've checked the hand and it isn't loose or making contact with anything and already re-aligned the hands last month.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24h said:


> ....... the cause of an hour hand being behind on a 2416 movement?....


Did you perform any work on the movement apart from installing the hands?

1. Dial Washer: if you removed the dial, the dial washer may have been lost. This could cause the Hour Wheel to occasionally lift up and skip a few teeth, which would make it out of sync with the Minute Wheel.

2. Damaged Hour Wheel or Hour Wheel Forced Out of Sync:
- When you installed the hands did you exert pressure on the side of the Hour Hand to align it after it was fully pressed onto the Hour Wheel pipe? 
If so, this could have damaged the Hour Wheel teeth or caused it to skip a few teeth, causing it to be out of sync. with the Minute Wheel.


----------



## cyberwarhol

Hi there been following for a while. I am wondering where I can get some blue hands, not the stock type. Possibly sword, pencil or merc. 
Thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 24h

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Did you perform any work on the movement apart from installing the hands?
> 
> 1. Dial Washer: if you removed the dial, the dial washer may have been lost. This could cause the Hour Wheel to occasionally lift up and skip a few teeth, which would make it out of sync with the Minute Wheel.
> 
> 2. Damaged Hour Wheel or Hour Wheel Forced Out of Sync:
> - When you installed the hands did you exert pressure on the side of the Hour Hand to align it after it was fully pressed onto the Hour Wheel pipe?
> If so, this could have damaged the Hour Wheel teeth or caused it to skip a few teeth, causing it to be out of sync. with the Minute Wheel.


I'll have to open the watch up to inspect the hour wheel and check if the washer is missing...waiting for some parts for a case swap and I'll check then.
I have a feeling that it's either damaged or missing the washer rather than just being out of sync. The problem gets progressively worse over time.

Edit: Another observation about all Vostok movements with a date mechanism.
It seems that at the instant the date changes over, the hour hand jumps forward by about 5 minutes. How does the movement compensate for this?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Blue Hands

See Post #318


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

24h said:


> ....all Vostok movements with a date mechanism.
> It seems that at the instant the date changes over, the hour hand jumps forward by about 5 minutes. How does the movement compensate for this?


*

Hour Hand Jumps 5 min. when Date Changes*:

It is most likely the effect of the less than perfect tolerances in the entire gear train. 
The release of the pressure that is built during the impending date change may be causing the gears or wheels to shift a small amount.

The teeth of each gear or wheel remain in contact.

5 min. is not actually gained, it only appears so.

** See Post #323


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.

*Colour Hands*

There are now more coloured hands for Vostok Amphibia and Komarndirskie
These hands will fit all 24xx Vostok movements
This includes the standard Komandirskie models because they use the 2409 and 2414 movements

There are Seiko and Miyota hands of different colours which can be re-sized to fit Vostok 24xx movements 
- this info. will be given in a future post

*'Blued'* : the hands are heat treated to give them a dark blue hue

*Silver*: some sellers refer to unpainted silver hands as: *'White'*
- look at the photo carefully. They may appear as white paint but may be only silver
-- if unsure, contact seller

---------------------------------------

1. Ebay Sellers: if no coloured hands are listed, they may be out of stock. Check again later.

*dr.seikostain*: ebay seller: Poland

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ft...0.XVostok+hand.TRS0&_nkw=Vostok+hand&_sacat=0

*raffles-time*: ebay seller: Singapore

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...=raffles-time&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1

*bestrus*: ebay seller: Russia

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=bestrus&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR5.TRC1.A0.H0.XVostok+hands.TRS1&_nkw=Vostok+hands&_sacat=0

*bandukh*: ebay seller: USA

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=bandukh&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xhands.TRS0&_nkw=hands&_sacat=0

---------------------------------------

2. *Meranom*: official Vostok seller: Russia

- these are standard Amphibia hands
- they are 'blued' vs. painted blue. Darker and may be less visible than blue paint
* if the 'blued' hands are not listed: they may be out of stock.

https://meranom.com/en/amphibian-classic/spare-parts/vostok-watch-vostok-amphibia-original-blued-hands.html

---------------------------------------

3.  *IgorIV*: WUS forum member: Ukraine

- IgorIV has the largest selection of hands available in both silver and gold (brass)
- contact him to discuss painting the hands 
-- provide a photo or description of the exact shade you require

- 'blued' hands available: ask him which styles are available

Available Hands:
*
Chart and Order Page*
- you may also order by contacting him through WUS

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeTcYAv2rKHb5JSMFOVqPfotZEqaTNSrhWiFkaz4sqlhN68Aw/viewform

*see these Posts* of this Guide

*#206*

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/guide-buying-modifying-repairing-vostok-amphibia-3042242-21.html#post44199097

*#55*

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/guide-buying-modifying-repairing-vostok-amphibia-3042242-6.html#post33145282

WUS *contact*:

https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=266266

IgorIV *WUS forum thread:
*
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/custom-dials-hands-3267474.html

---------------------------------------

4. If you see a WUS forum member with hands he has painted himself, don't be afraid to ask if he will paint some for you

---------------------------------------

* If you discover new sellers of painted hands or if you want to offer your own painting services, please contact me and I will add this information to this Guide


----------



## TwentiethCenturyFox

Well done Matt! New to Vostok and this thread is a life saver!


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> *
> 
> Hour Hand Jumps 5 min. when Date Changes*:
> 
> It is most likely the effect of the less than perfect tolerances in the entire gear train.
> The release of the pressure that is built during the impending date change may be causing the gears or wheels to shift a small amount.
> 
> The teeth of each gear or wheel remain in contact.
> 
> 5 min. is not actually gained, it only appears so.


Indeed, no time is gained whatsoever, and this "jump" only affects the hour hand. It's very visible in the below 20 seconds long video that I recorded after having replaced the calendar cam spring on a Vostok 2414.






My idea of this is that when the energy in the calendar cam spring is released, some of the energy (due to "less than perfect tolerances", as Matt_Bored_O explains) travels to the hour wheel through the calendar wheel and the intermediate calendar wheel and this is what causes the "jump". BTW, the parts nomenclature that I use comes from this post.


----------



## 24h

VWatchie said:


> Indeed, no time is gained whatsoever, and this "jump" only affects the hour hand. It's very visible in the below 20 seconds long video that I recorded after having replaced the calendar cam spring on a Vostok 2414.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My idea of this is that when the energy in the calendar cam spring is released, some of the energy (due to "less than perfect tolerances", as Matt_Bored_O explains) travels to the hour wheel through the calendar wheel and the intermediate calendar wheel and this is what causes the "jump". BTW, the parts nomenclature that I use comes from this post.


That shows exactly what I was describing in my previous post.
What I still don't completely understand is how this jump forward is made up for.
Does the hour hand temporarily slow down while all the gears mesh together properly?


----------



## 24h

I was curious and decided to timelapse the date change.
To me, it looks like the hour hand doesn't start moving until about five minutes after the date change...


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*Hour Hand Jumps Forward 5 Minutes At the Date Change and Does Not Move Again For 5 Minutes*

This is an inherent aspect of the Vostok mechanism or movement.

This may apply to all 24xx mechanisms.

When the Hour hand jumps 5 min., it is actually an amount of slack in the gear train which is equal to an amount of approximately 5 min.

In other words, all the available slack is taken as the instant date change mechanism pushes out or removes this slack and this produces a 5 min. instant jump forward of the Hour Wheel. This jump ahead basically makes the Hour Wheel 5 min. ahead of the rest of the gear train, such as the Minute Wheel.

The Hour hand, that is the Hour Wheel, now stalls and will not begin moving fully again until the other parts of the gear train such as the Minute Wheel, consumes this slack or 'catches up' to the Hour Wheel which was shifted beyond the 'reach' of the gear train. The teeth of the Hour Wheel remain in contact with the gear train, but there is little to no pressure on the Hour Wheel until the gear train has taken the 5 min. of slack from the system and becomes fully engaged with the Hour Wheel, applying full pressure to it.

At this point, the entire gear train will provide full pressure on the Hour Wheel and the Hour hand will begin moving again.

So, the entire movement, or mechanism, does not essentially have a system to 'make up' the 'gained' 5 min. 
It is basically the slack in the gear train that allows the Hour Hand to be temporarily moved ahead 5 min. until this slack is overcome and the rest of the gear train exerts normal pressure or energy on the Hour hand.

If the Hour Hand or Minute Hand is pushed forward or backward gently with a tool, you will see the slack or less than perfect tolerances in the gear train.

If there was absolute zero slack or perfect machining tolerance in the gear train, the movement would stop since each pivot would be stuck in its jewel and each gear, or wheel, would be locked together as there would not be enough extra space for the teeth to move or there would be too much friction.

So, a certain amount of slack is required for the parts of a watch movement to move properly with as little friction as possible.

Too much slack, or tolerances that are poor, and the parts would jump or bounce or engage with too little pressure or energy. 
The watch would then keep erratic time or it would stop completely due to misalignment of the gears.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.


----------



## 24h

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> *Hour Hand Jumps Forward 5 Minutes At the Date Change and Does Not Move Again For 5 Minutes*
> 
> This is an inherent aspect of the Vostok mechanism or movement.
> 
> This may apply to all 24xx mechanisms.
> 
> When the Hour hand jumps 5 min., it is actually an amount of slack in the gear train which is equal to an amount of approximately 5 min.
> 
> In other words, all the available slack is taken as the instant date change mechanism pushes out or removes this slack and this produces a 5 min. instant jump forward of the Hour Wheel. This jump ahead basically makes the Hour Wheel 5 min. ahead of the rest of the gear train, such as the Minute Wheel.
> 
> The Hour hand, that is the Hour Wheel, now stalls and will not begin moving fully again until the other parts of the gear train such as the Minute Wheel, consumes this slack or 'catches up' to the Hour Wheel which was shifted beyond the 'reach' of the gear train. The teeth of the Hour Wheel remain in contact with the gear train, but there is little to no pressure on the Hour Wheel until the gear train has taken the 5 min. of slack from the system and becomes fully engaged with the Hour Wheel, applying full pressure to it.
> 
> At this point, the entire gear train will provide full pressure on the Hour Wheel and the Hour hand will begin moving again.
> 
> So, the entire movement, or mechanism, does not essentially have a system to 'make up' the 'gained' 5 min.
> It is basically the slack in the gear train that allows the Hour Hand to be temporarily moved ahead 5 min. until this slack is overcome and the rest of the gear train exerts normal pressure or energy on the Hour hand.
> 
> If the Hour Hand or Minute Hand is pushed forward or backward gently with a tool, you will see the slack or less than perfect tolerances in the gear train.
> 
> If there was absolute zero slack or perfect machining tolerance in the gear train, the movement would stop since each pivot would be stuck in its jewel and each gear, or wheel, would be locked together as there would not be enough extra space for the teeth to move or there would be too much friction.
> 
> So, a certain amount of slack is required for the parts of a watch movement to move properly with as little friction as possible.
> 
> Too much slack, or tolerances that are poor, and the parts would jump or bounce or engage with too little pressure or energy.
> The watch would then keep erratic time or it would stop completely due to misalignment of the gears.


Thanks, that perfectly explains this little quirk of the 24XX movements! :-!


----------



## VWatchie

24h said:


> I was curious and decided to timelapse the date change.
> To me, it looks like the hour hand doesn't start moving until about five minutes after the date change...


Brilliantly illustrates the effects of this "little quirk", as you put it. Thanks!


----------



## BreaksThings

It makes more sense that the drivetrain doesn't jump ahead, but instead is held up by the spring loading (resistance) of the calendar complication.

When the date wheel click to the next date, the back pressure in the drivetrain is released and the hour hand moves forward to where it should be if it had not been held up by building enough pressure to push the calendar stud past the spring that holds the date in place.


----------



## Pizzocan

Hi guys, have you ever done a power reserve check on your Vostok? I've always wondered how true the claim of 31hrs was as it seemed always to run a bit too long after I'd leave it for another watch in the rotation. So I wound it up, set the time to 0:00 and saw how far it would run and...40hrs exactly! 0.0

Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


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## 24h

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Did you perform any work on the movement apart from installing the hands?
> 
> 1. Dial Washer: if you removed the dial, the dial washer may have been lost. This could cause the Hour Wheel to occasionally lift up and skip a few teeth, which would make it out of sync with the Minute Wheel.
> 
> 2. Damaged Hour Wheel or Hour Wheel Forced Out of Sync:
> - When you installed the hands did you exert pressure on the side of the Hour Hand to align it after it was fully pressed onto the Hour Wheel pipe?
> If so, this could have damaged the Hour Wheel teeth or caused it to skip a few teeth, causing it to be out of sync. with the Minute Wheel.


Just opened the watch up.

1. Dial washer is still there and intact.
2. Hour wheel seems to be OK. No broken or misshapen teeth, however, I noticed a scratch on a couple of them. None of this is visible without a microscope though.








Code:


https://youtu.be/KZxPVOfxFLo


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.

*Movement / Mechanism Holder*

A movement or mechanism holder is a tool every Vostok owner needs to hold the mechanism to repair it or install dials and hands.

Currently, there are no holders produced specifically for the Vostok 24xx and 22xx models.

*
Universal Vise Style Holders*

Commonly available and are easy to use. 
*
Disadvantage*: there is no centre pin to support the Seconds Hand Pinion of the Vostok mechanisms.
This is necessary especially for the 2409 and 2414 which require a support for the pinion when installing the Seconds Hand.









*Universal Holder*
photo: Esslinger.com

If you choose a vise style holder, *buy a Large Size*. 
This will hold 22xx and 24xx Vostok and larger mechanisms you may repair in the future.

--------------------------------

*Cylinder Style Holder: Specific Size*

A holder made for specific mechanisms is often easier to use versus a vise style holder. They are often designed to allow the mechanism to be turned over to work on the opposite side, same as a vise style holder, however a custom cylinder style is usually easier to use for amateur watch repairers. There are no projecting bolts or knobs - this may prevent accidents.

*Advantage:* There is usually a support post or pin for mechanisms which require this.









*Centre Pin with Slot for stem*

photo: Cas-KerCo.

Dave Murphy of Murphy Manufacturing, a highly respected producer of bezels for Vostok and Seiko , has begun producing a holder for Seiko mechanisms.

He is now contemplating producing a Vostok holder.

I suspect that if enough of us contact him and ask him to produce a holder he may do so.

I believe there would be much demand for this very helpful tool.

If he decides to produce this, ask him to put your name on a waiting list and you will be notified when they are produced. 
This is the system he employs to notify those who want to purchase his bezels, when the bezels are not in stock. 

Hopefully, if he produces these, he will include a suport post or pin.

Dave Murphy bezels for Vostok and Seiko are highly recommended in this forum. 
I would assume his holders would be of equal quality.

If you contact him: *Specify if you need a holder for 24xx and / or 22xx* mechanisms

_________________________

*Contact*: [email protected]

https://murphymanufacturing.com/factory_store.html

*Murphy Manufacturing Co.*, Inc.

Fairport, NY 
USA
14450-0119

_________________________

*Murphy Manufacturing*









Murphy Manufacturing *Seiko Holder* #TL8010


----------



## Pizzocan

Could you explain me why do you need the support pinion? Why only the 2414-09? Thanks!


Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


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## 24h

Pizzocan said:


> Could you explain me why do you need the support pinion? Why only the 2414-09? Thanks!


You need to have something to provide support to the back of the movement (specifically against the "leaf spring" of the center second pinion).
Without support, you will bend or even break this spring which is supposed to keep pressure on the center second pinion.
I believe this tip was specifically aimed at the 2409 and 2414 due to the fact that the automatic winding bridge on the 2415 and 2416 movements will provide support for this spring.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.

*Seconds Hand Pinion Support*
.









The *Seconds Hand Pinion* is supported by a small leaf spring as shown on photo.

It may be silver or gold (brass).

When the Seconds Hand is installed, *the spring MUST be supported *or the downward pressure of the pinion may bend it.

To repair the spring if it is bent or damaged: remove and straighten it or replace it.

*Applies to:

2409
2414*

- *22xx and 24xx Automatics: not necessary*: the automatic winding bridge acts as a support 
-- If the automatic winding bridge is removed and the Seconds Hand is installed, the pinion must be supported

---------------------------------------

*How To: Support Pinion*

*1.* a small *piece or disc of hard plastic* that fits over the leaf spring 
- if a disc: about 10 mm diameter or smaller (it must lie flat and must not sit on protuding screw heads)
- tape in place: be careful not to touch balance, gears / moving parts

*
2.* remove a *dial screw* ( or use an extra dial screw) and install it fully nto a tiny hole in a piece of flat, hard plastic 
- place the movement carefully over this screw so that the head of the screw fits into the small space of the head of the leaf spring. Add marks on the plastic to guide you in the future.
-- you should feel it touching the sides of this space as you gently slide the mechanism slightly back and forth
It is now centred on the leaf spring 
- the screw head is the perfect diameter and height 
- when a dial screw is removed, the dial will not fall but may become only slightly loose, if at all. Be careful

*3.* a *non-Vostok specific cylinder style mechanism holder* with an adjustable height centre post 
- may be difficult to find such a holder of the correct diameter but there are models with side screws to help hold mechanisms of slightly different diameters. The holder MUST be able to centre the movement over the centre post

*4. * Custom made, *Vostok specific, cylinder style holder* with centre post 
- must be made of non-magnetic metal or plastic 
- the centre post / pin must be correct height to touch the leaf spring without pushing it up too much 
- 3-D printed or turned on a lathe 
- consider selling them: there should be demand


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.
*
Power Reserve: Running Duration *

Vostok specification: 31 hrs.

*
24xx Automatics*: Most owners report *38 - 42 hrs.*

*2409 and 241*4: fewer reports but similar: *38 - 42 hrs.*

*22xx*: similar results expected

- this data applies to movements / mechanisms of good condition and properly lubricated
-- as a watch ages, the oils become dry or contaminated and the parts wear. 
This often causes the mechanism to run for increasingly shorter periods of time.

The Soviets often published conservative data for their products. This idea was carried forward to some modern Russian products.
It was considered more truthful and fair advertising for citizens versus the often exaggerated claims of Western manufacturers.


----------



## 24h

24h said:


> Just opened the watch up.
> 
> 1. Dial washer is still there and intact.
> 2. Hour wheel seems to be OK. No broken or misshapen teeth, however, I noticed a scratch on a couple of them. None of this is visible without a microscope though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suggestion action?
> Maybe put everything back together and hope that the gears mesh properly this time around, or would you recommend I find a new hour wheel.
> I'm not sure this on is damaged, other than a couple of small scratches.
> 
> Edit: Good info on the second hands pinion support. At one point I wanted to design a movement holder for Vostok movements, but I need to learn how to properly use the 3D modeling software.
> I have a 3D printer that I might be able to try a couple designs on.


----------



## Mr.Ludwig

Are there any good bezels for amphibia cheaper than Murphy bezel? I have one from am watches but its a little disappointing with how loose it is even after messing with the wire, it's far from as tight as stock bezel. I want one with edge just like Murphy's but wondering if I should really pay as much for it.


----------



## 24h

.


----------



## 24h

Mr.Ludwig said:


> Are there any good bezels for amphibia cheaper than Murphy bezel? I have one from am watches but its a little disappointing with how loose it is even after messing with the wire, it's far from as tight as stock bezel. I want one with edge just like Murphy's but wondering if I should really pay as much for it.


Have you seen: https://www.dagazwatch.com/apps/webstore/products/show/7641454


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## Mr.Ludwig

24h said:


> Have you seen: https://www.dagazwatch.com/apps/webstore/products/show/7641454


That looks pretty good, thank you


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## BreaksThings

I'm in for one for sure!


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## Matt_Bored_O

.
re: holder by Matt Brace:

Send Matt a PM

It is easier for him.

He will make an announcement of his decision in the near future.

https://www.watchuseek.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=242081


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## BreaksThings

I sent him a message as described in your other message about this. I just wanted to renew my support! Ha!


----------



## VWatchie

24h said:


> 24h said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just opened the watch up.
> 
> 1. Dial washer is still there and intact.
> 2. Hour wheel seems to be OK. No broken or misshapen teeth, however, I noticed a scratch on a couple of them. None of this is visible without a microscope though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suggestion action?
> Maybe put everything back together and hope that the gears mesh properly this time around, or would you recommend I find a new hour wheel.
> I'm not sure this on is damaged, other than a couple of small scratches.
> 
> Edit: Good info on the second hands pinion support. At one point I wanted to design a movement holder for Vostok movements, but I need to learn how to properly use the 3D modeling software.
> I have a 3D printer that I might be able to try a couple designs on.
> 
> 
> 
> So, it has been established that the watch is keeping time, that the minute hand is working flawlessly, and that there's nothing funny about the hour wheel, right? I would then proceed to check the teeth and the leaves of the minute wheel. The cannon pinion drives the minute wheel and the minute wheel drives the hour wheel, so if there's a damaged or a missing tooth or leaf on the minute wheel it would explain why the hour hand doesn't keep up. If the minute wheel is indeed the source of the problem you should see the same problem when setting the time (if you spin it long enough). Also, just to make sure, take a good look at the leaves of the cannon pinion too. Or, it could perhaps be that the setting lever spring (the cover over the keyless works) isn't holding the minute wheel properly in place, or that the minute wheel is skewed making it slip a leaf on the cannon pinion now and then. Lots of part names flying around here so I'll illustrate with a couple of pictures. Keeps us posted about your observations and progress!
Click to expand...


----------



## 24h

VWatchie said:


> 24h said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, it has been established that the watch is keeping time, that the minute hand is working flawlessly, and that there's nothing funny about the hour wheel, right? I would then proceed to check the teeth and the leaves of the minute wheel. The cannon pinion drives the minute wheel and the minute wheel drives the hour wheel, so if there's a damaged or a missing tooth or leaf on the minute wheel it would explain why the hour hand doesn't keep up. If the minute wheel is indeed the source of the problem you should see the same problem when setting the time (if you spin it long enough). Also, just to make sure, take a good look at the leaves of the cannon pinion too. Or, it could perhaps be that the setting lever spring (the cover over the keyless works) isn't holding the minute wheel properly in place, or that the minute wheel is skewed making it slip a leaf on the cannon pinion now and then. Lots of part names flying around here so I'll illustrate with a couple of pictures. Keeps us posted about your observations and progress!
> 
> 
> 
> The last few posts of this thread appear to have solved the issue :-!
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/hour-hand-out-sync-vostok-2416b-movement-4874019-2.html
Click to expand...


----------



## Seikogi

Does anyone know the difference between a 2409 and 2409.1 movement from Meranom.. as I am looking to make a handwind no-date Amphibia mod. the description is identical on both ... 

thank you!


----------



## 24h

Seikogi said:


> Does anyone know the difference between a 2409 and 2409.1 movement from Meranom.. as I am looking to make a handwind no-date Amphibia mod. the description is identical on both ...
> 
> thank you!


2409.1 has the calendar bridge included, although it looks like that's just about it. No date wheel or the mechanism to drive it.
There could be some beveling on the backside of the 2409, but I'm not 100% sure because there is only one photo.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.

I assume the 2409.01 is a new model to supercede the 2409.

I also assume this is a cost cutting design.

The 2409 is not a much used mechanism of Vostok and it may not be cost effective to produce the shorter Hour Wheel pipe, shorter Cannon Pinion and shorter Seconds Hand Pinion required by the 2409 versus those of the 2414.

By installing a date bridge plate on the 2409, the 2414 Hour Wheel, Cannon and Seconds Hand Pinion can be installed. 
The bridge or plate adds more thickness so taller Hour Wheel, Cannon Pinion and Seconds Hand Pinion are required to allow the hands to sit at the proper height above the dial. 

Presumably, this plate, which appears to lack some of the machining as that found on a 2414, is cheaper to produce than the shorter Hour Wheel, Cannon Pinion and Seconds Hand Pinion. 

Universal parts keep costs down.


----------



## Seikogi

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> I assume the 2409.1 is a new model to supercede the 2409.
> 
> I also assume this is a cost cutting design.
> 
> The 2409 is not a much used mechanism of Vostok and it may not be cost effective to produce the shorter Hour Wheel pipe and shorter Cannon Pinion required by the 2409 versus those of the 2414.
> 
> By installing a date bridge plate on the 2409, the 2414 Hour Wheel and Cannon Pinion can be installed.
> The bridge or plate adds more thickness so taller Hour Wheel and Cannon Pionion are required to allow the hands to sit at the proper height above the dial.
> 
> Presumably, this plate, which appears to lack some of the machining as that found on a 2414, is cheaper to produce than the shorter Hour Wheel and Cannon Pinion.
> 
> Universal parts keep costs down.
> 
> * I have sent an email to Meranom to explain the differences.
> I will post the answer.


thank you for the detailed answer, much appreciated!

I have a dial from Igor incoming (made of alumium if I understood correctly), so the higher Pinions could be needed.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Seikogi said:


> ...I have a dial from Igor incoming (made of alumium if I understood correctly), so the higher Pinions could be needed.


Yes, when a thick dial is installed or a dial with thick, custom lume it is always better to install a 2414 or 2416 mechanism or the new 2409.01

Then the Date mechanism bridge plate can be removed for more height for the hands.

The taller Hour Wheel pipe, Cannon Pinion and Seconds Hand Pinion will provide greater clearance for the hands.


----------



## jimzilla

Evening comrades, I have a 2409 movement that keeps spitting off the seconds hand. 
Anyone have any tips, tricks or dirty tricks that will remedy this problem, thank you , James.


----------



## jimzilla

.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> ..... 2409 movement that keeps spitting off the seconds hand....


*
The Seconds Hand Detaches*

Possible Problems:

1. *Hand Is Not Fully Pressed Onto the Seconds Hand Pinion*

Remedy:

- if it is a 2409 or 2414 manual wind mechanism, support the pinion and leaf spring underneath when installing the hand to prevent the pinion pushing down into the Cannon Pinion as you install the hand. 2415, 2416 etc. automatic mechanisms support the pinion on the automatic system bridge plate so no extra support is required 
-- if it is not supported, the hand will not fully seat onto the end of the Seconds Hand Pinion

- if you are inexperienced with installing hands, you may believe you have pressed the hand fully onto the pinion end yet it is not fully seated. Because the pinion will push down slightly when you press the hand onto it, you may not feel the same friction or positive stop that you feel when the Hour or Minute Hand is installed.
-- ensure the pinion is fully supported at the leaf spring (if it is a 2409 or 2414) and press the hand with a little more force to completely seat it

2. *Tip of Senconds Hand Pinion is Broken*

Remedy:

- pinion must be replaced

Perhaps the tip broke inside the 'pipe' or shank of the hand.

3. *Seconds Hand is Incorrect Size*

Correct Size: 0.17mm

- perhaps it is a bad quality hand with poor tolerance 
- if it is custom or non-Vostok the size may be incorrect:
-- if it is too large, it will fit loosely and detach
-- if it is too small, it will not fit on the end of the pinion

Remedy:

- replace the hand

4. *Seconds Hand 'Pipe' Hole is Damaged*
- the hole has a burr or is damaged and will not allow you to press it onto the end of the Seconds Hand Pinion

Remedy:

- replace the hand

- if it is a custom or expensive hand and you wish to keep it, try to open the hole or remove the burr with a tiny dill bit, tip of pin, needle or tip of modelling craft knife. Also, you can remove a small amount of the shank with a fine file or sandpaper to remove the damaged end but a small burr may be created which must be removed.

Remove all grit or metal particles prior to installation.

5. *Mounting 'Pipe' or Shank is Too Short*

- some custom or non-Vostok hands have a pipe which is shorter than standard Vostok
-- this will cause the hand to sit lower and closer to the Minute Hand. The hands may rub and loosen or detach the Seconds hand

- you must use a different hand with a longer pipe if it cannot be installed without it detaching or be prevented from rubbing on the Minute Hand


----------



## jimzilla

thank you matt, It seems like the minute hand needs to be pushed down further but it is bottomed out, I don't know if it is interfering with the seconds hand.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> thank you matt, It seems like the minute hand needs to be pushed down further but it is bottomed out, I don't know if it is interfering with the seconds hand.


Remove the movement and with magnification look at the hands from the side to see if the Seconds Hand is rubbing on the Minute Hand mounting tab and ensure both hands are straight.

Perhaps the Minute Hand is not seated completely horizontal.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Is the Seconds Hand genuine Vostok or custom?

Some non-Vostok made Seconds Hands may have a shorter 'pipe' or shank which could make them sit lower and closer to the Minute Hand.


----------



## jimzilla

It is a aftermarket hand.


----------



## jimzilla

Hey guy's, I have another question regarding the metal rings that go inside the crystals on the older style Komanderskie cases namely the 53 style cases. 
I had purchased new crystals but the old original ring does not fit it is too big? tried to persuade it in with a rubber mallet! ...... crystal-0 ring-1 
what gives. thanks, James.


----------



## BreaksThings

Are you sure you ordered a crystal for the komandirski? I know the Amphibia crystal is thicker and therefore may take a different ring?


----------



## jimzilla

I have both Amphibia and Komanderskie crystals and I do have the shorter crystal for Komanderskie. this is the second time this has happened. I can install the currently available crystal into the old style case but not the ring, yet the ring fits into the original crystal. think I need to get dial calipers to compare. that's my question, is there a difference?


----------



## BreaksThings

I only have Amphibias so measurements would be good to know... I do know that I have a 90's/00's scuba dude that came with a very similar (komanderskie height) crystal, but was not an oem vostok... I wonder if your ring and crystal are orginal? Either way, I hope measurements help figure it out!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*Colour Hands *

- add favinov to the list of sellers of coloured hands of post #318

*favinov*: ebay seller: Russia

- Sergei has an excellent reputation for quality and service
- he will help you create the mod of your choice by installing any parts you send him or purchase from him. Also, you can order parts from Meranom and request the parts are sent to favinov.

- he currently offers hands painted: *white, red, black*

- you must send him a message and ask for the painting service for the hands of your choice

- perhaps if demand increases, he may offer more choices

*
Superluminova*:

- favinov also sells hands and dials with Standard grade Superluminova 
-- he uses two different names for this paste but they are the same: Superluminova and Superlumia 
-- it is brighter and has a longer duration than standard Vostok lume 
-- he offers different colours of Superluminova: blue and green: this refers to the illuminated colour (the colour of the glow).

*ebay store: hands*

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_ftrt=901&_fsradio=%26LH_SpecificSeller%3D1&_sop=12&_saslop=1&_fss=1&_dmd=1&_sasl=favinov&_osacat=0&_ipg=200&_ftrv=1&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.Xhands.TRS1&_nkw=hands&_sacat=0

*a WUS review of favinov:*

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/favinov-many-pictures-3422066.html

.


----------



## jimzilla

jimzilla said:


> Hey guy's, I have another question regarding the metal rings that go inside the crystals on the older style Komanderskie cases namely the 53 style cases.
> I had purchased new crystals but the old original ring does not fit it is too big? tried to persuade it in with a rubber mallet! ...... crystal-0 ring-1
> what gives. thanks, James.


Hey Matt any idea on this crystal problem? thank you.

P.S. I think favinov has the best aftermarket products that I have seen so far and you are right he is a very nice person.
He sent me a video on how to put the Komenderskie crown and stem back in.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.

*Crystal & Tension Ring: Vintage Classic Komandirskie*

If your Classic style Komandirskie is older / vintage, it may have a crystal which utilises a metal tension ring similar to the Amphibia. However, several years ago Vostok altered the design of the Classic Komandirskies.

They now use a _different_ crystal that _does not require a tension ring_.

New crystals for new Classic Komandirskie are _not_ sold with a tension ring.

The crystal mounting face of the case has been re-designed. A tension ring is now not necessary. Meranom has verified this. It is probably a cost saving measure. The water resistance rating has not changed, according to Vostok documents.

If you need a new crystal for your vintage Classic Komandirskie, you have several options.

*Option 1*

*Install a New Design Crystal Without the Old Ring * 

If your Komandirskie is the older design which required the ring, and you install a new design crystal which requires no ring, the water resistance may or may not be affected adversely; there is no guarantee. Also, there may be a slight gap between the dial and case which the old tension ring had bridged.

*****You may be able to fit the old ring into a new crystal *

if you use a press or some other means of force. Some folks have done this successfully.

- a crystal press applies pressure evenly and is the preferred tool. Don't apply too much force or the crystal may crack
-- support the outer edge of the crystal when attempting to install a ring into a Komandirskie crystal because pressure on the centre of the crystal will crack it
-- a piece of plastic pipe or the centre of a roll of tape can be used to support the crystal

- *file down the outer circumference of the ring* just enough to make its installation easier
-- be careful to do this evenly

- if all fails, don't worry: install the crystal without the old ring
Other folks have done this successfully

-- without a ring, some folks have used silicon caulk or crystal cement to form a seal between the case and the crystal. However, this may only be necessary if the watch will be submerged or worn in very wet conditions. It is best to first test the water resistance of the crystal without any sealant, then decide if you need extra sealing.

- it may be necessary to file down the outer lip or circumference of the crystal to make the diameter slightly smaller
-- this will allow you to install it more easily 
-- if you do this, you should add a small amount of silicon caulk or crystal cement to protect the water resistance because it is difficult to grind the crystal circumference perfectly and evenly

- a special jig or holder could be made to hold the crystal at a precise distance from a grinding disc or sanding belt as you rotate the crystal to remove material precisely 
-- it is easier to hold a crystal for more precise work if you attach it to the end of a large dowel, 3/4"/19mm or 1"/25mm for example, using a chunk of Rodico or a ball of tape 
-- see youtube for ideas: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=circle+sand+jig+tool+holder+

*Option 2*

*Purchase a Used Vintage Crystal and Tension Ring *

-- purchase from recommended ebay or etsy sellers
- ebay seller asap31 has a good collection of new and vintage Vostok parts
- ensure the crystal is completely free of cracks and the mounting lip is not damaged. Ask seller for more photos if necessary

- you can re-use your original ring

- if you need another ring: ask if the tension ring is supplied with the crystal or if they have a ring available 
- you can re-use the ring from your original old crystal if it is not bent or badly warped

*Option 3*

*Install a New Amphibia Crystal*

- some folks have successfully installed an Amphibia crystal with and without the Amphibia tension ring
- these crystals are thicker so they will sit higher. If this is not a problem for you, this is a good option. 
- these are much stronger than a Komandirskie crystal so they will not crack easily, even when dropped onto a hard floor.

------------------------------------

NOTES:

1. *Crystal Lift*: is the preferred tool to install a Komandirskie crystal


*Lift vs. Press*: a Lift COMPRESSES a crystal / a Press EXPANDS a crystal

- If you use a crystal press to install a vintage or new crystal into a Komandiirskie, the crystal may crack. It is too thin.









- the holder allows the lift 'fingers' to engage, in proper alignment, the outer circumference of the crystal.

*Amphibia Crystals*: some folks use either a press or a lift

- a press often works more easily because the crystal is very thick and is difficult to compress with a crystal lift. The lift may leave gashes aroung the circumference due to the high pressure needed to compress such a thick crystal

- Amphibia crystals are much stronger and will not easily break
- It is always best when installing any crystal, using a press, to apply pressure to the outer edge - NOT the centre. Use a section of plastic pipe or the centre piece of a roll of tape or similar to apply pressure away from the centre of the crystal. Some crystal presses include such special attachments

- a drill press can be used if you don't have access to a proper crystal press

2. Whichever crystal option you choose, you should first test the water resistance before installing the movement / mechanism. Simply assemble the entire case, gaskets, crown and crystal then submerge into a deep bowl of water. If after 1 hour there is no water penetration around the crystal, all is good. If water has leaked around the crystal, remove it and add sealant to the crystal such as silicon caulk or crystal cement. The cement, or adhesive, will permanently damage the sealing surface of the crystal so the crystal will have to be replaced if it is removed in the future.

If good water resistance is not necessary for you, disregard this.

--------------------------------------

See these:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/komandirskie-crystal-help-crystal-fell-out-3962418.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/old-komandirskie-crystal-replacement-752743.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/komandirskie-crystal-help-798328.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/komandirskie-crystal-help-3046458.html


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.
*Discount Codes: Meranom Store*

Meranom will give you a discount on watches and parts if you input one of these codes when you complete the order

**No discount may be given for watches or parts that are _already_ discounted or reduced in price

- Use only _one_ code per transaction

- Each code offers the same discount

------------------------------------------------

*Site*__________________________*CODE*

wus................................watchuseek

w.ru..........................watchru16 or watchru

ru watch review site.............getat5

------------------------------------------------


Meranom:

http://https://meranom.com/en/


----------



## BreaksThings

@Matt... You rock dude. I love the detailed and thorough answers you always provide. Just wanted to make sure you know your labors are appreciated.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

BreaksThings said:


> @Matt... You rock dude. I love the detailed and thorough answers you always provide. Just wanted to make sure you know your labors are appreciated.


Thanks mate !

I enjoy helping you guys.


----------



## NOTSHARP

Some may be interested in the position of spring bar holes in the 150 case, compared with the 710.

This is a 150 case. Notice how low down in the lug, the hole is positioned.



Here is a 710.



And this is the 090 case that I butchered into a 150.



You will notice that the factory machining on the lug is not good. :-(

Due to the hole positions, straps, or bracelets, sit low in the lugs.

150



710



Steve.


----------



## jimzilla

Good afternoon all, I would just like to share the tools and process I use for removing the bezel inserts from the bezels. It works flawlessly and rather quickly, 
usually 10 to 20 minutes. It works on the double sided self adhesive. I have used it on the white adhesive and the black adhesive. 
I have not tried it yet on glued down bezel inserts. The adhesive remover I use has not harmed any bezel or insert that I have used it on, no corrosion, no discoloration, it has been perfect.
It is not cheap but you get what you pay for. It is reusable as well. I soak the bezel, remove the bezel and pour the rest back in to the can. It is very economical to use.


----------



## jimzilla

First step is to submerge the bezel In 3M adhesive remover and let it soak for 10-20 minutes. I use a little stainless steel container you can get from a nail salon supply.
Fits like it was made for a bezel


----------



## jimzilla

Take out the bezel and insert and gently push out the insert from the bezel if it doesn't move with fairly light pressure then soak for another 10 minutes.
when you get it off then scrape the adhesive off with a plastic razor blade and wipe clean with a rag. That's it.


----------



## jimzilla

Here is a link to find one of those stainless steel cups to soak the bezels in. This is a 3 piece set so I am guessing one will be the right size. 
I am sure there all made in china so they should all be about the same. I got mine at a nail supply and they were sold individually. They are handy to have.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-Nail-...=item41e10d01b4:g:vsIAAOSwQZdcQDiL:rk:18:pf:0


----------



## jimzilla

The plastic razor blades come in handy as well, another nice tool to have in the box.

Link to plastic Razor blades

https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Razo...ocphy=9012384&hvtargid=pla-594120382994&psc=1


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
re: Removing Bezel Insert

*3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner 08984*

- contains the following chemicals:

Hydrotreated Light Naphtha (Petroleum) 
Xylene 
Ethylbenzene 
Toluene 
Benzene

Here is the PDF data sheet (SDS) for 3M Adhesive Remover

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSuUn_zu8l00x4xt9PxmxOv70k17zHvu9lxtD7SSSSSS--

You may be able to find this or similar products at automotive paint supply stores, paint department or adhesives section of a hardware store.

If you are unable to find the 3M Adhesive Remover, look for other products with a similar composition.

- the chemical composition of a product is found in the 'SDS' or Safety Data Sheet
-- simply google a product name and add SDS to the search words

Naphtha or similar petroleum product is a common ingredient of adhesive removers.

**Do _not_ buy a spray can, buy a can of _liquid_ remover

Since some chemical products are banned or regulated in certain countries, a list of good alternatives is helpful.

If you have found a good alternative, please post your recommendation.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
re: Adhesive Remover

A glass jar is a good substitute if you can't find a stainless steel jar.


----------



## Vost

100 Micro Test Tubes....for Watch Hands (or other parts):

> 100Pcs 2ML Micro Centrifuge Tube <


----------



## Vost

-double post-


----------



## jimzilla

Why does this website do the "you have to wait 10 seconds to post" I don't fall for it anymore but it gets redundant.


----------



## jimzilla

Vost said:


> 100 Micro Test Tubes....for Watch Hands (or other parts):
> 
> > 100Pcs 2ML Micro Centrifuge Tube <
> 
> View attachment 13940865


I use drinking straws (yes the PLASTIC ones) with soft plastic ends you can get from the hardware store. you can custom cut them to size and they package better because there is no taper to them and are a smaller diameter so you can fit more in the same space. I use them for hands and small parts.


----------



## jimzilla

While we are on the subject of watch parts storage, ...... I really like the individual coin collector holders you get off ebay for $7.00 - $10.00
for 100 PC and a case, you can fit a but load of watch parts into this. I mainly use them for hands , faces and calendar wheels.

Here is a link

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100Pcs-27m...m=352521836844&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985


----------



## jimzilla

a lot of the older Komanderskie's I buy have that brassy patina that I am guessing is the brass under the Chrome coating bleeding through. Does anyone know how to remove it to make the Chrome bright again and get rid of the brass tint? I tried buffing and that doesn't seem to work. Thanks guys, James.


----------



## mariomart

jimzilla said:


> a lot of the older Komanderskie's I buy have that brassy patina that I am guessing is the brass under the Chrome coating bleeding through. Does anyone know how to remove it to make the Chrome bright again and get rid of the brass tint? I tried buffing and that doesn't seem to work. Thanks guys, James.


I suspect that it's more than likely the appearance of tired and worn TitaniumNitride (TiN) coating. I'm unsure of the method required to take it back to Brass.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> a lot of the older Komanderskie's I buy have that brassy patina that I am guessing is the brass under the Chrome coating bleeding through....


 Are you saying that the cases are chrome plated and there are areas where the brass underneath is visible or is it as Mario says?

Precision in description is important !!

TitaniumNitride (TiN) coatings are used on some Komandirskie cases.

Instead of a chrome coating, a TiN coating is deposited onto the brass case. This gives the appearance of bright, polished brass which resists corrosion and helps prevent the green / brown colour of exposed brass.


----------



## jimzilla

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Are you saying that the cases are chrome plated and there are areas where the brass underneath is visible or is it as Mario says?
> 
> Precision in description is important !!
> 
> TitaniumNitride (TiN) coatings are used on some Komandirskie cases.
> 
> Instead of a chrome coating, a TiN coating is deposited onto the brass case. This gives the appearance of bright, polished brass which resists corrosion and helps prevent the green / brown colour of exposed brass.


I think it is patina, the cadet has a slight brass color but the 53 case is bright silver, isn't the coating underneath the Chrome on the cadet bleeding through?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Mario is correct.

The Cadet case with black dial is Titanium Nitride (TiN) coated brass.

The other case is chrome plated brass.

TiN has a brass / gold colour so it only _appears_ to be brass bleeding through.

That Cadet is in nearly new condition so the TiN coating is completely intact.

The brass underneath is not visible. No need to worry. All is good.

As with chrome plating, the TiN will degrade with wear and become scratched on the areas which receive the most abuse such as around the crown and where the bottom rubs on your arm.

Clean TiN as you would chrome. Just soap and water and soft cloths and soft brushes.


----------



## jimzilla

I had no idea, I thought it was patina. Looks like you guys took me to school again,thanks.


----------



## jimzilla

Hey Matt, Mario what dial face color do you guys think would complement the case color on that cadet?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> ... I thought it was patina...


The hands may have patina but those appear in good condition.

Brass hands are less protected from moisture in the air and often develop patina and sometimes corrosion.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> ... what dial face color do you guys think would complement the case color on that cadet?


For brass / gold cases, I like dark dials.

Green, blue or black.


----------



## jimzilla

Good morning comrades, can someone send me a link to Igor's ebay store, I can't find it, thanks.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
IgorIV

- custom hands and dials for Vostok and others

No ebay store

Contact him through WUS:

https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=266266

see also: 'Colour Hands' post #318 of this thread / Guide


----------



## jimzilla

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> IgorIV
> 
> - custom hands and dials for Vostok and others
> 
> No ebay store
> 
> Contact him through WUS:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=266266
> 
> see also: 'Colour Hands' post #318 of this thread / Guide


As always Matt, thank you, you always come through, have a good evening sir.


----------



## jimzilla

DP .... (double post)


----------



## Techgeek23

Question for veterans, while browsing meranoms site I noticed that there are 2 sizes of bezels
A: Neptune which is 39.5mm diameter and 3.8mm thick
B: 41mm insert and 4mm thick
😄 39mm diameter and 3.4 mm thick

1: Am I reading this right? But some bezel are wider so they could potentially go over the crown while others are slimmer and remain within the case?

2: At the same time thick and height are the same? So you should buy a 4mm thick bezel for more protection over the plastic glass?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Techgeek23 said:


> 1: Am I reading this right? But some bezel are wider so they could potentially go over the crown while others are slimmer and remain within the case?
> 
> 2: At the same time thick and height are the same? So you should buy a 4mm thick bezel for more protection over the plastic glass?


1. Yes,* some bezels are wider than others and will reach over the crown*

- a wide bezel will reach over the crown slightly, more so on narrower cases such as 420 and 060

- bezel width / diameter refers to the top portion and not the base diameter

- bezels made for larger cases, 090 for example, have a wide base or very large top which will _hit the crown_ on smaller cases

- bezels made for all case models are universal
-- they will _not_ hit the crown of any case, but the top portion may reach _over _the crown

- a _wide_, universal fit bezel has a wide top and narrow base
-- if installed on a smaller case, the top will reach over the crown but it will _not_ hit the crown

- generally, a narrower bezel is best for the small 420 case which may appear overwhelmed and hidden by a large, wide bezel

- you must only buy a bezel designed to fit your particular case
-- all bezels of all sellers state which case models each bezel will fit; buy accordingly

2. Yes, * thickness = height 
*
* thick / tall bezel = more protection for the glass / crystal*

- there is not much difference in height between Meranom bezels and standard, classic Vostok bezels:

Standard bezel = about 3.4 mm
Meranom bezel = 3.4, 3.8 and 4 mm

- 4 mm will provide slightly more protection than 3.4 mm, but not much more

------------------------------------------------

*
For maximum protection of glass / crystal:*

tall = more protection

These are good choices:

- dr.seikostain (ebay) 
- zavar011 (ebay)
- am-diver (ebay): highly angled toward crystal = good protection
- Murphy Manufacturing: (online store): VO1010 and VO1020 'Clean' bezel: tall and highly angled toward crystal = good protection


----------



## Techgeek23

Matt_Bored_O said:


> These are good choices:- dr.seikostain (ebay) - zavar011 (ebay)- am-diver (ebay): highly angled toward crystal = good protection- Murphy Manufacturing: (online store): VO1010 and VO1020 'Clean' bezel: tall and highly angled toward crystal = good protection


Matt, Thanks a lot for your explanation and for taking the time to respond in such promptness to trivial questions, really appreciated.
I am very new to Vostok and very excited at the same time.I just purchased my first vostok from amazon here in Canada and got a bezel from ebay seller name arkustime - they have not arrived yet (I did not know about meranom until 3 days ago - terrible I know).
Another question: some bezels outside diameters are 39 - others are 39.5 and others 41mm. are inserts universal to fit them all? Thanks from Saskatchewan bro!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Techgeek23 said:


> Another question:
> 
> - some bezel outside diameters are 39 - others are 39.5 and others 41mm.
> 
> are inserts universal to fit them all?


.
*Bezel Dimensions and Inserts*

MOST bezels currently produced for Vostok Amphibia are designed to fit the same size inserts.

Bezel Insert:

*Seiko SKX007 *


Insert Size:

*OD 38mm

ID 31.5mm
*

- the inserts may be either aluminum or ceramic
-- ceramic inserts are not as brittle or fragile as you may think: you will be surprised
-- they will not crack or chip when carefully installed and put through normal use

- some ceramic inserts and am-diver aluminum inserts are angled slightly upward toward the crystal
-- this is not a problem IF the dimensions are correct or if the description states it will fit any custom Vostok or other bezel designed for Seiko inserts (am-diver inserts are recommended to be installed only on am-diver bezels)

Look at the sellers photos carefully and read the descriptions !!

-------------------------------------------------

*Bezel Outside Diameter OD*:

- don't let this confuse you: the size of the area for the insert is basically the same size for all bezels regardless of the actual OD of the bezel

- there is a narrow, raised lip on the outside of each bezel: some bezels have a narrow lip, others have a wide lip of several millimeters
-- it is the width of this lip which changes the OD of a custom bezel

- wide bezels are best with large cases

- examples of bezels with wide lips:

dr.sekiostain: 'The Redneck' 
zavar011: 'Toothed' (* see note)

-------------------------------------------------

*
NON Standard Insert Bezels:*

There a few sellers with bezels which are _not_ designed for Seiko SKX007 inserts
- they are often proprietary: their own special sizes

You must read the description of each bezel carefully !!

If the bezel is NOT for Seiko SKX007 inserts: you must buy the insert the seller has designed for his particular bezels

-- this gives fewer choices of inserts and you do not have the choice to install Seiko inserts. But, many Vostok owners install an insert on a bezel with no intention to change it in the future

A few examples: there may be more

- bandukh: (ebay - US): use their own design inserts

- am-diver: (ebay- Germany): not standard Seiko dimensions but very, very close: will fit standard custom bezels of other sellers
-- some Vostok owners recommended to use only am-diver bezels for am-diver inserts

- Meranom: ??? inserts appear to be narrower than Seiko SKX007: narrow is good for smaller cases
-- it is recommended to use only Meranom inserts for Meranom bezels

-------------------------------------------------

*Fully Assembled: Bezel and Insert*

- some sellers have bezels with the insert already installed

PRO: this is the fastest and easiest route 
CON: the choices are somewhat limited

**if a seller has both inserts and bezels but are not sold fully assembled:

Ask seller if he can assemble them for you: most sellers of Vostok parts are very kind and helpful

--------------------------------------------------

*Insert Mounting:*

Double Sided Tape: is best
Rubber / Contact Cement: a good choice BUT: it usually contains acetone which could damage the paint - BE CAREFUL

- most inserts are sold with double sided tape or similar

If you are unsure if the insert comes with mounting tape, ask the seller !!

dr.seikostain: his bezels are sold with tape but he also sells separately: 3M double sided tape which is already cut for the exact size required for Seiko SKX inserts

--------------------------------------------------

See also: post #1 of this thread / 'Guide':

These headings:

- 'Sellers: Custom Vostok bezels'

- 'Bezel Inserts'

--------------------------------------------------

Notes:

* currently, zavar011 (ebay-Israel) does not ship to Canada.
Check with them periodically as they sometimes change this policy. 
You may have to use google to find such sellers because ebay will block them from you if you live in a country the seller does not ship to. If you have a friend in another country, you could have them buy the part, have it shipped to them, then sent to you.


----------



## Miyota-kaiKarate

Hi all, I have some questions on modding Amphibias/Dirskies:

1. Is there anyone who does custom crowns or crown engraving?

2. Does anyone have any idea on how to create a patina effect for dials?

Thanks for all answers provided!


----------



## Jake_P

Miyota-kaiKarate said:


> Hi all, I have some questions on modding Amphibias/Dirskies:
> 
> 1. Is there anyone who does custom crowns or crown engraving?
> 
> 2. Does anyone have any idea on how to create a patina effect for dials?
> 
> Thanks for all answers provided!


You can bake a dial in an oven which is something some people do it seems. It seems to turn the lume a brownish colour depending on how long you leave it in for. Times and temperatures seem a bit random so it may be that you have to keep a very close eye on it! I've baked a bezel and the lume pip did indeed look old/brown from it's original green. Again, it doesn't seem like an exact science and you rmileage may vary given the lume type/dial material..I can't really vouch for it as a method as I don't have the experience. I remember seeing f10 member ThePossumKing's baked dial and the surface of the dial had really cracked giving it a nice worn vintage (semi destroyed!) look..

You can also try staining the lume or markers with tea/coffee from what I stumbled upon..was thinking of doing this to my new hands which have very white lume which doesn't match the creamy faux patina of the dial markers..not sure if I'll do this though


----------



## Techgeek23

Thanks a lot Matt, all info has been noted.
Cheers bud !


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Miyota-kaiKarate said:


> 1. Is there anyone who does custom crowns or crown engraving?


I am not aware of anyone.

Engraving is a service you may be able to find locally.

- the standard Vostok crown has a thin stainless shell over a brass crown so the engraving cannot be too deep 
-- for engraving, it is best to buy a solid stainless crown from Meranom: currently, these are the only crowns that could be called 'custom'


----------



## Miyota-kaiKarate

Jake_P said:


> You can bake a dial in an oven which is something some people do it seems. It seems to turn the lume a brownish colour depending on how long you leave it in for. Times and temperatures seem a bit random so it may be that you have to keep a very close eye on it! I've baked a bezel and the lume pip did indeed look old/brown from it's original green. Again, it doesn't seem like an exact science and you rmileage may vary given the lume type/dial material..I can't really vouch for it as a method as I don't have the experience. I remember seeing f10 member ThePossumKing's baked dial and the surface of the dial had really cracked giving it a nice worn vintage (semi destroyed!) look..
> 
> You can also try staining the lume or markers with tea/coffee from what I stumbled upon..was thinking of doing this to my new hands which have very white lume which doesn't match the creamy faux patina of the dial markers..not sure if I'll do this though


Thanks for the answering the question on dial patina! I remember reading about it in another thread but can't seem to find it anymore.

What about custom crowns? Does anybody know if anyone is doing them?


----------



## Jake_P

Miyota-kaiKarate said:


> Thanks for the answering the question on dial patina! I remember reading about it in another thread but can't seem to find it anymore.
> 
> What about custom crowns? Does anybody know if anyone is doing them?


Like Matt said above, I haven't heard of any mods in this area but I agree that finding an engraver is probably the easiest thing. You can buy engraver pens with diamond tips that vibrate but from what I've seen on the likes of Amazon, they look a little..amateur shall we say


----------



## jimzilla

I have a question about the 2416B and the 2414 movements. When you disable the calendar assembly let's say for a dial face with no date and remove the calendar plate is it o.k. to set the dial face directly on the hour wheel foil? I have before I was wondering if it is proper procedure. I would also like to know how much more height it gives you on the hour wheel stem when installing the hour hand with the calendar plate removed. When you disable the calendar assembly and remove the intermediate calendar wheel does it affect the timing of the watch?
thanks guy's, James.


----------



## jimzilla

.


----------



## mariomart

jimzilla said:


> I have a question about the 2416B and the 2414 movements. When you disable the calendar assembly let's say for a dial face with no date and remove the calendar plate is it o.k. to set the dial face directly on the hour wheel foil? I have before I was wondering if it is proper procedure. I would also like to know how much more height it gives you on the hour wheel stem when installing the hour hand with the calendar plate removed. When you disable the calendar assembly and remove the intermediate calendar wheel does it affect the timing of the watch?
> thanks guy's, James.


Hey 

Firstly, if you are using one of those movements with a no-date dial there is no reason to remove any of the calendar complication at all, it will run just fine with no modification and won't be fouled.

The primary reason to remove the date complication in it's entirety is to ensure that the hands will have sufficient clearance with the dial when using extra thick dials, such as a sandwich dial. The extra height gained may actually cause issues when using a regular thickness dial as the hands will now sit closer to the watch crystal and there is a possibility the seconds hand will be fouled by the crystal.

When removing the date complication it is necessary to make sure the curved washer is used, otherwise the hour pinion will lift and cause issues.

As long as the watch is regulated after the date complication removal then the accuracy should not be affected.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

mariomart said:


> .....The extra height gained may actually cause issues when using a regular thickness dial as the hands will now sit closer to the watch crystal and there is a possibility the seconds hand will be fouled by the crystal.....


I don't think this is what occurs. The hands are installed at the same height regardless of whether or not the date mechanism is installed or removed. The only change is that if the date mechanism is removed from a 2414 / 2614 and a stadard dial is installed, the dial can be dropped down slightly, closer to the mechanism. This will provide slightly more clearance for a thick dial / thick markers on the dial or for thick hands. The hands will not move closer to the crystal.

So, the dial can be moved up or down / further or closer to the face of the watch mechanism.

The Hour and Minute hands (not Seconds Hand) can be installed slightly further down toward the dial but not further up toward the crystal.

As Mario said, this extra clearance is good for thick dials or thick hands.

For myself, I install only 2414.

If I have a standard dial I leave the date mechanism installed if not needed or sometimes I will only remove the calendar wheel (the part with the calendar numbers). I leave everything else intact.

As Mario said, the accuracy may have to be regulated slightly if the date mechanism is removed. When regulated properly, the accuracy is _not_ affected by the date mechanism. The regulation compensates for any loss created by the date mechanism which puts a very small load on the system for a short period of time each day.

So, if you install or remove the date mechanism, the accuracy will possibly change slightly.

Therefore, you must again adjust the regulation to compensate for this change and the watch will again achieve it usual good accuracy.

All my watches have 2414 with date mechanism, whether I need the date or not

All have excellent accuracy.

Regulation is a simple adjustment for any watch repair man if you don't want to do it yourself.


----------



## jimzilla

So removing the calendar wheel and calendar wheel plate will give me the extra room for a thicker dial, yes?


----------



## 24h

jimzilla said:


> So removing the calendar wheel and calendar wheel plate will give me the extra room for a thicker dial, yes?


Yes, because there will be more space between the hour hand and the movement.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
If you remove the 'calendar plate' (the large, flat, circlular plate inside the middle of the date wheel) then you should move the dial down further to contact the 'wave' or dial washer. The calendar plate pushes against the dial washer and holds the Hour Wheel in its place. 

Without the calendar plate, the dial must push against the dial washer. 

If the dial does not sufficiently contact the dial washer, the Hour Wheel may lift and the Hour hand may stop or move erratically.

The dial washer pushes down on the Hour Wheel to hold it in down and keep it engaged with the gear train.


----------



## jimzilla

Does the 2416B and the 2414 movements use the same parts in the calendar assembly's if so are they interchangeable? thank you guy's.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> Does the 2416B and the 2414 movements use the same parts in the calendar assemblies ?


Yes. All Calendar mechanism parts are identical for the 2416 / 2416B and 2414

Completely interchangeable.


----------



## jimzilla

You da man!, thanks Matt.


----------



## jimzilla

Hey guys, something I would like to share. you should give this a try for polishing the Chrome, Stainless, Brass and titanium nitrite on our watches. I had this in my buffing box for a year or so and gave it a try today....... WOW this stuff works great. regards, James.


----------



## 24h

jimzilla said:


> Hey guys, something I would like to share. you should give this a try for polishing the Chrome, Stainless, Brass and titanium nitrite on our watches. I had this in my buffing box for a year or so and gave it a try today....... WOW this stuff works great. regards, James.


----------



## Zam511

With all these mods possibilities & suppliers, i think its about time we have a case for unidirectional bezel like any other traditional diver's watch (mostly). Meranom did it with their SE model. Hope they're planning on mass production. Cheers


----------



## alexg989

Hi all,

I'm very new to this whole Vostok thing, but I'm trying to learn fast.

One question I have is regarding the metal bracelets - It seems everyone is fond of getting rid of them, presumably because they're not so good. But, I'm working on restoring one of the 50 Years Victory watches, and I really would like an old fashioned, worn down to the brass bracelet instead of modern shark mesh or whatever.

Any ideas on how I might be able to achieve that? I've taken a look at all of the sellers, and short of buying an old $30-40 watch just for the bracelet, I don't seem to be having any luck.

PS: Likewise, I've taken a look around and I can't for the life of me find one of the 'etched' double-eagle casebacks. I've seen a few on this forum, but the best I can find is one on ebay that looks like the design has been welded on ...

Any advice would be much appreciated!


----------



## alexg989

Hi all,

I'm very new to this whole Vostok thing, but I'm trying to learn fast.

One question I have is regarding the metal bracelets - It seems everyone is fond of getting rid of them, presumably because they're not so good. But, I'm working on restoring one of the 50 Years Victory watches, and I really would like an old fashioned, worn down to the brass bracelet instead of modern shark mesh or whatever.

Any ideas on how I might be able to achieve that? I've taken a look at all of the sellers, and short of buying an old $30-40 watch just for the bracelet, I don't seem to be having any luck.

PS: Likewise, I've taken a look around and I can't for the life of me find one of the 'etched' double-eagle casebacks. I've seen a few on this forum, but the best I can find is one on ebay that looks like the design has been welded on ...

Any advice would be much appreciated!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Russian 'double-eagle' caseback:

- post a request in the 'Parts Wanted' thread 
- they were usually installed on certain models of Komandirskie
- the stamped version is perhaps what you perceive to be 'welded' ??

If a seller does not have a photo of the caseback or if the photo is not clear, ask them for confirmation of which caseback is installed.

Strangely, Vostok sold both versions simultaneously. Perhaps they switched models at some point in time but there was much stock left of the other version? Or they have 2 different suppliers ?

See this thread: 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/do-you-notice-anything-odd-about-these-casebacks-4882157.html#post48068251









*PHOTOS: 24h*


----------



## alexg989

Thanks for the advice!

And yep, stamped seems a likely possibility to me. Simply that the text is raised vs. engraved out of the caseback. Perhaps the particular one I was looking at on ebay was a particularly bad example (or the photos were bad), because it just looked very sloppy.

I was hoping they were a common part that could be ordered new, but yep, I'll see if the parts wanted thread has any luck for me. Cheers!


----------



## 24h

I now have access to a 3D printer and PLA filament. 
Someone briefly mentioned that they had a model for a Vostok movement holder (for working on movements outside of the case).
I would love to attempt printing it


----------



## Vost

Privet Comrades, if anyone needs a box for his Dials, but also other small parts (like Hands), this one can be recommended. 
Each small round box (100pcs) has a diameter of 30mm.

Attention please, there are different sizes - 15, 20, 25, 30 mm ..
















>> 100Pcs/Box Coin Box Clear 30mm Round <<


----------



## Yamawammer

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> View attachment 9313802
> 
> 
> 
> Bronze Bezels:
> 
> - bronze is primarily an alloy of Copper (Cu) and Tin (Sn) = CuSn
> -- brass is primarily an alloy of Copper and Zinc = CuZn
> 
> - it is very durable
> - it will develop a nice moderately dark brown patina
> -- brass becomes moderately green-brown or red-green-brown
> - bronze will not stain your skin or your clothing
> 
> - highly polished bronze uaually develops a patina more slowly than brushed bronze
> 
> - some folks do not like the patina of either brass or bronze; they prefer the gold colour
> -- don't worry: the patina is easy to remove with metal polish or other abrasive paste and a toothbush
> 
> - scratches and blemishes are removed easily with metal polish or mild abrasive
> 
> - bronze bezels are polished easily to a high gloss, or you can 'brush' the surface
> to create a dull, non glare surface
> 
> 
> IP / PVD:
> 
> - the gold bezel from dr.seikostain (one.second.closer) is stainless steel with a IP coating
> -- this is a type of Physical Vapour Deposition coating, or PVD, which creates a layer of gold
> colour using a complex process
> -- it is very durable; much more durable than standard paint
> -- it should not tarnish or change colour with age
> 
> When Should You Use a Bronze / PVD Bezel?
> 
> - if you have a dial with gold indices or accents, especially dark coloured dials, and gold hands:
> -- bronze bezels will help accentuate the indices and hands
> 
> - any dark colour dial, especially black, dark blue and dark green
> 
> Install one onto a Komandirskie:
> 
> - all standard Komandirskie cases are made of brass
> -- the polished gold colour cases have a TiN (Titanium Nitride) coating for protection
> - the silver cases are brass with chrome plating
> -- some owners like to remove the chrome using Hydrochloric / Muriatic acid to
> create a completely brass case
> 
> -- install a bronze bezel onto one of these Komandirskie to create a rugged, nautical appearance
> 
> * most of these bronze / PVD bezels will fit onto most standard Komandirskie cases
> 
> -- the 'Porthole' bezel from zavar011 (#3 - photo) may be slightly too wide for some cases
> 
> - if the bezel is too wide for the case, the bezel will hit the crown
> This can be fixed in most situations:
> -- if you do not need a bezel which rotates, you can create a small bevel on the bottom skirt of the
> bezel to create clearance for the crown. You need only to do this where the bezel hits the crown
> 
> ** if you are not sure of the compatibility of a part, or you need help to install it:
> 
> - send a message to the Forum and ask
> -- provide as much detail as possible
> -- provide photos if possible


Anyone have any info on where to get the center bezel (#3)? I'm having no luck on Ebay. Thanks for any info and great job with what you have done and continue to do here Matt.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Yamawammer said:


> Anyone have any info on where to get the center bezel (#3)


*zavar011* is still active on ebay but has stopped shipping to North America and Oceania.

When an ebay seller stops shipping to a particular country, people in that country will be blocked from viewing the items.

You must do a google search of the seller, without logging into ebay, to see the items.

I don't know why he has stopped shipments to North America. I never had problems with receiving his items sent to Canada.

We may need a contact in Europe to help North American forum members who want to buy his bezels.

ebay seller *saltua2014* in Ukraine is the partner of zavar011 and sometimes sells the same bezels. However, currently there are no bezels listed. Subscribe to the seller to receive notice of bezel listings or check the store periodically. Perhaps the partnership has ended.?


----------



## Yamawammer

Thank you sir!


----------



## alexg989

Hi all,

I was hunting for nice Vostok bracelets on ebay and found a nice looking (to me haha) metal band from a Vostok seller. 

Trouble is, I have absolutely no idea how to work with the clasp! It's 'stuck' where it is, which is much too short to use. I've never seen this type of clasp before ... Any advice?


----------



## Dave_Hedgehog

alexg989 said:


> Trouble is, I have absolutely no idea how to work with the clasp! It's 'stuck' where it is, which is much too short to use. I've never seen this type of clasp before ... Any advice?


Stick a screwdriver in the slot circled and lever it up. You can then slide the clasp down the band, then push the part you levered up back down to lock in place.


----------



## alexg989

Thank you very kindly!

Now I have my watch all ready to go  - Excuse the terrible photo, the lighting in my room is awful. I will upload a better one to the purchase thread soon haha!









PS: Oh god these images display at huge size. Any way I can make attachments smaller so they're less obnoxious to people scrolling past?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

alexg989 said:


> Any way I can make attachments smaller....?


I like to use an image processing program such as Paint.NET.
Any program which will allow you to crop and reduce.

- crop / remove wasted space around the subject item

- reduce the size of the image if it is still too large after cropping: either as a percentage or by pixels

I have cropped and reduced your image here as an example:


----------



## Dave51

Hello everyone,

I have been reading this forum, especially this thread and I have learned a lot. Thanks to all for sharing your experience.

The modding bug hit me and I purchased a couple of empty Amphibia cases (100 and 110), some movements, crowns, etc. My first trick was to transplant my Scuba Dude from a 420 case into the 110 case. I put a Scuba Dude case back on it, installed a red/black Diet Coke bezel from Meranom, and attached a thick black strap with red stitching, and it looks great. When I get a chance, I will post a photo. The only problem I ran into was that the stainless signed crowns I purchased from Meranom don't seem to work. They look identical to the one that came with my 110 case, except for the B on the crown (length, shape, etc.). However, neither of them would stay in the movement after reinserting them. I could not use the crown to adjust the hands. I pulled on it and it came all the way out. I depressed the button with a pin and everything. After multiple attempts, I tried with the original crown and it went in perfectly and stayed in, no problem. It works just as before. Any ideas what the problem could be?

Now, I am getting ready for some more advanced work. I have a couple of movements, dials, etc., for the empty 420 and and 100 cases. Not surprisingly, I noticed after picking up the movements and putting them in another location that they were working. Does it make sense to remove the rotors and let them wind down before installing the dial and hands?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Father of five

Dave51 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have been reading this forum, especially this thread and I have learned a lot. Thanks to all for sharing your experience.
> 
> The modding bug hit me and I purchased a couple of empty Amphibia cases (100 and 110), some movements, crowns, etc. My first trick was to transplant my Scuba Dude from a 420 case into the 110 case. I put a Scuba Dude case back on it, installed a red/black Diet Coke bezel from Meranom, and attached a thick black strap with red stitching, and it looks great. When I get a chance, I will post a photo. The only problem I ran into was that the stainless signed crowns I purchased from Meranom don't seem to work. They look identical to the one that came with my 110 case, except for the B on the crown (length, shape, etc.). However, neither of them would stay in the movement after reinserting them. I could not use the crown to adjust the hands. I pulled on it and it came all the way out. I depressed the button with a pin and everything. After multiple attempts, I tried with the original crown and it went in perfectly and stayed in, no problem. It works just as before. Any ideas what the problem could be?
> 
> Now, I am getting ready for some more advanced work. I have a couple of movements, dials, etc., for the empty 420 and and 100 cases. Not surprisingly, I noticed after picking up the movements and putting them in another location that they were working. Does it make sense to remove the rotors and let them wind down before installing the dial and hands?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


I think I saw a video on YouTube where this happened, it was the correct crown but would not seat correctly, the problem was the gasket inside the crown was not seated correctly 
Try to reseat the crown gasket and see if that helps


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
.

*Crown / Stem Won't Seat Properly*

- this information applies also to Komandirskie



The Stem Must Lock Into the 'Keyless Works' 

If the stem will not engage properly, the number one cause is that the stem did not lock into place in the 'keyless works' mechanism.

The stem will pull out completely if you try to set the time or wind the watch if the stem is not fully engaged or locked into the keyless works.

The stem _must_ lock or click into the keyeless works of the movement.

*
2 Methods:*

*1* Grasp the stem inside the case and push stem toward the movement until you hear it click
-- the crown must be fully screwed down

*2* Push the opposite side of the movement towards the stem side
-- there is often enough free play of the movement within the case to allow you to move the movement enough to force the stem further in to lock it into the keyless works









Photo: Dave Murphy




Gasket Is Out of Place / Poorly Machined Crown Threads

*Gasket:*

As 'Father of Five' suggested, check the crown gasket to enusre it is fully seated.
If this gasket is not properly installed, it could prevent the crown from fully screwing onto the 
case preventing the stem from fully engaging in the keyless works. The stem will then pull out when you try to set the time or wind the watch.

*How To Repair: *

- push the gasket down to fully seat it. Use the end of a dull plastic stick or similar tool with no sharp point or sharp edge that could damage the gasket.

- replace gasket if damaged

*Poorly Machined Threads: *

I have had several stainless crowns, of the brushed 'cog tooth' style, which would not screw properly onto the crown tube because the crown threads were machined poorly. I noticed slightly more resistance when screwing down the crown but I did not think to inspect the theads. I caused one crown to split before I realised the problem. I had to throw it out and remove burrs on the threads of another.

The 'signed B', SE and plain 'non-cog' models of fully stainless crowns are machined to a higher standard versus the 'cogged tooth' style. The threads of these more refined crowns usually appear to be better machined.

If one of these crowns will not fully seat, it is probably caused by a poorly installed crown gasket. Inspect the threads if the gasket is not the problem.

If the crown is the 'cogged tooth' style, rough machined threads may be the problem if the gasket is installed properly.

The original standard Vostok crowns which are brass with a stainless cover do not usually have a problem with bad thread machining. If there are slight imperfections, brass is a soft metal which conforms more easily and imperfections of the threads may be worn down with normal use.

*Komandirskie:* All standard, Classic models have brass crowns: Either plain or chrome plated

If the crown threads are good and the gasket is installed properly, yet the crown will not screw fully onto the 'crown tube', the problem may be the crown tube threads. This is the threaded piece of the case onto which the crown is installed.

Inspect these threads for burrs and rough machining. If the threads are beyond repair, this part can be replaced by pressing out the tube and pressing in a new one. A bad crown tube appears to be a _rare_ problem.

*How To Repair: *

- remove burrs with a thin narrow steel tool such as tweezers, sewing needle or a dental style pick

- rough theads of the crown can often be made smoother by rubbing the area with a sewing needle or other hard metal tool with a blunt rounded end such as a the shank of a small drill bit

- misaligned threads of the crown tube on the case can usually be straightened by using a thin, small file or a piece of sand paper wrapped around a thin knife blade


General Rule:

Always inspect the gasket and threads of any crown and crown tube before installation
.
.







Photo: Meranom







Photo: Matt_Bored_O


----------



## Dave51

This is great information. Thanks so much for answering so quickly. I will take another shot at it this weekend!


----------



## Dave51

Problem solved! Thanks again to all who answered my question. The less nice, stock crowns seem to go in easier and engage easier than the signed stainless versions! I think the key with both cases was to pinch the shaft with the tweezers and force the engagement. Now both watches have a nice signed stainless crown. 

Next question. Does it make sense to remove the rotor and let the movement wind down before starting my next assembly project. It seems like that might make it easier to install the hands. Am I missing a reason that the hands should be installed while the movement is operating?


----------



## BreaksThings

No need to wind it down. Just pull out the crown to set time mode and the hands can be adjusted with the crown.

You first set the hour hand by finding where the date changes (for movements with dates). Right as the date changes (turn the crown super slowly) place the hour hand at 12. Make sure hands clear the dial. Go 24 hours ahead and then see how close to 12 you are as the date changes. If you are happy with that, then turn the hour hand to directly point at an indicie where you can really make sure it is right at the hour (I use 6 since then I can align it directly with 12) and place the minute hand directly at 12. Your date change may not be right at midnight, but your hour hand will align correctly at each hour when the minute hand is at 12, which I think is more important. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Dave51

That is very helpful. Thanks.


----------



## jimzilla

alexg989 said:


> Thank you very kindly!
> 
> Now I have my watch all ready to go  - Excuse the terrible photo, the lighting in my room is awful. I will upload a better one to the purchase thread soon haha!
> 
> View attachment 14106821
> 
> 
> PS: Oh god these images display at huge size. Any way I can make attachments smaller so they're less obnoxious to people scrolling past?


I am old, my eyes are old..... actually everything on me is old, I like the larger images so I don't have to zoom them....


----------



## jimzilla

Father of five said:


> I think I saw a video on YouTube where this happened, it was the correct crown but would not seat correctly, the problem was the gasket inside the crown was not seated correctly
> Try to reseat the crown gasket and see if that helps


I have a similar problem I am building a watch for my son in law with a Komanderskie 53 crab case. I insert the crown, it clicks in, it does not come out. I can set the time but it will not wind. I screw the crown all the way back in and If I tap the crown on my desk a few times I can see the stem go back in a little further (clear case back) and then I can wind the watch, after I wind the watch If i pull out the stem to set time then it starts all over again I cant wind the watch until I screw the crown all the way in and I tap the crown on my desk, anyone know whats up??? thank you James.


----------



## jimzilla

.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> .... I can set the time but it will not wind. I screw the crown all the way back in and If I tap the crown on my desk a few times.... then I can wind the watch, after I wind the watch If i pull out the stem to set time then it starts all over again I cant wind the watch until I screw the crown all the way in and I tap the crown on my desk..



After Setting the Time, To Wind the Watch: _First_ You Must Fully _Screw Down the Crown_:

This is a common characteristic of the 24xx Vostok movement / mechanism

- many owners report this
- it is not harmful
- it is simply an unusual characteristic due to the design of the 'keyless works'* mechanism and the crown / stem clutch system (the famous 'wobbly' loose crown) 
- this does _not_ normally occur _when winding before setting the time_: the time may be set after winding without first screwing down the crown

When the crown is screwed down after setting the time, the stem and the keyless works mechanism parts will move into the proper positions to allow you to wind the watch when you unscrew the crown again. You may hear a small click sound or feel a slight 'snap'. This is normal.

*If the Mechanism Will Not 'Re-Set' When the Crown is Screwed In:*

If you must tap the watch on a hard surface after you screw down the crown to make the mechanism parts click into place, then the keyless works mechanism may need to be cleaned and lubricated. This is not a difficult task but you must remove the hands and dial to access these parts. Vostok factory lubrication is not always as good as it should be and it is not uncommon for the keyless works mechanism to require more lubrication.

- a thick watch oil or light watch grease is utilised:

Common Greases:

-- Nye PML 
-- Moebius 9104 (HP-1300) (thick oil)
-- Moebius 9501 
-- Moebius D-5 
-- Molykote DX 
-- KT-22

- the most popular: Nye PML / Moebius D-5 / Molykote DX / KT-22

-- automotive / bicycle grease: 
-synthetic lithium, molybdenum (Moly) or teflon grease:

- some have used these with no problems. The only concern is that water _may_ be present in the grease possibly causing slight corrosion after several years as the grease breaks down.

-- Do Not use Silicon grease: it is good for rubber gaskets but is a bad metal lubricant

Apply the grease with a standard watch Oiler or a non-magnetic / plastic needle or pin

----------------

* _Keyless Works_: this is the standard English term for the entire mechanism that winds the watch and sets the hands and date. It is composed of: stem, levers, gears and springs. It is 'keyless' because, unlike pocket watches of the past, modern watches do _not_ require the insertion of a small 'key' to work the winding and setting mechanism. The stem is now the 'key'.

- Keyless Works: Design and Function: http://www.timezone.com/2002/09/16/the-keyless-works/


----------



## jimzilla

Matt_Bored_O said:


> After Setting the Time, To Wind the Watch: _First_ You Must Fully _Screw Down the Crown_:
> 
> This is a common characteristic of the 24xx Vostok movement / mechanism
> 
> - many owners report this
> - it is not harmful
> - it is simply an unusual characteristic due to the design of the 'keyless works' mechanism and the crown / stem clutch system (the famous 'wobbly' loose crown)
> - this does _not_ normally occur _when winding before setting the time_: the time may be set after winding without first screwing down the crown
> 
> When the crown is screwed down after setting the time, the stem and the keyless works mechanism parts will move into the proper positions to allow you to wind the watch when you unscrew the crown again. You may hear a small click sound or feel a slight 'snap'. This is normal.
> 
> However, if you must tap the watch on a hard surface after you screw down the crown to make the mechanism parts click into place, then the keyless works mechanism may need to be cleaned and lubricated. This is not a difficult task but you must remove the hands and dial to access these parts. Vostok factory lubrication is not always as good as it should be and it is not uncommon for the keyless works mechanism to require more lubrication.
> 
> - usually a thick watch oil or light watch grease is utilised:
> 
> -- Moebius HP-1300
> -- Moebius 8300
> -- Moebius D-5
> 
> or equivalent
> .


Hi Matt I hope all is well. You wouldn't happen to have a diagram as to where you lube the parts and which ones? it would be nice to do while you are building the watch.
thank you Matt, best regards, James.


----------



## VWatchie

Found the following section on the page _"A deeper look at the SII NH35A watch movement"_:

_"Now all of this is "interesting" but not very useful to anyone other than budding watch geeks who might still be enthusiastic about picking up an Invicta 8296OB or a Vostok Amphibia for cheap which are powered by the SII NH35A."_

I can't recall ever having seen a genuine Vostok Amphibia with any other movement that the Vostok cal. 2415/16. The Buyalov watches on meranom.com have this SEIKO movement. Is this perhaps a misunderstanding on the behalf of the writer of the article, or did I miss something?


----------



## EndeavourDK

VWatchie said:


> I can't recall ever having seen a genuine Vostok Amphibia with any other movement that the Vostok cal. 2415/16. The Buyalov watches on meranom.com have this SEIKO movement. Is this perhaps a misunderstanding on the behalf of the writer of the article, or did I miss something?


Looking back through the catalogues an Amphibian is shown in the 1976 catalogue and that one is powered by the 2209 movement. I haven't gone through every page of the subsequent catalogues, but it looks that the Amphibians were initially powered by the 2209 (and perhaps some by the 2214??). In the 1983 catalogue the Amphibian still has the 2209. In the 1990 catalogue I spotted only an Amphibian with the 2409A movement, another Amphibian (25(0) case) with a 2414A movement and a 93 case with a 2416b movement. The 22xx movements appeared to have been phased out somewhere between 1983 and 1990, to be replaced by the 24xx movements.
The 2415 automatic is a much later movement.

I'm not aware of any Vostok Amphibians with any other than these movements either ...... but maybe I missed something too ..... b-)


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

VWatchie said:


> .....The Buyalov watches on meranom.com have this SEIKO movement. Is this perhaps a misunderstanding on the behalf of the writer of the article, or did I miss something?


I think it is a misunderstanding.

Perhaps this is a rumour. 
Perhaps the Buyalov models have caused confusion, although the article was written before the Buyalov models were introduced.

I have written a short response to that article in the comment section to help clear the confusion.


----------



## VWatchie

During the past two years or so, my number one interest has been to learn about and practice watch servicing and repair. So far, I've been working on the most common Vostok 24XX movements (2409/14/15/16b) where my journey began with the help you comrades, the rather impressive Poljot cal. 2614.2H and some Swiss calibres such as ETA 1080, AS 1203, OMEGA 601, UNITAS 6498. Next in line is the classic ETA 2824-2 (can't wait for it).

I must have been tinkering with watches in a previous life as I feel such contentment and enjoyment handling tools and tiny parts. Anyway, I always seem to miss and return to the Vostok 24XX movements. Their value for money is just incredible and to me they are always going have a special place in my heart.

Anyway, _the point of this post_ is to share the disassembly and assembly pictures I took of a Vostok cal. 2414 that I've just serviced (a Komandirskie with a rather different dial). Since a while back I've started to carefully document these steps by taking pictures for any, to me, new (or not yet documented) movement that I work on.

There aren't any fixed rules for how to take a watch movement apart or how to reassemble it and it can be done in many ways, but I've learned an established practice, devised to make the process as safe and painless as possible. For example, this practice means that the balance assembly (as we all know is the most sensitive part of the movement) is removed as soon as possible, that the motion work is removed before the train wheel bridge to make it safer and easier to remove the cannon pinion, and so on. The pictures follow this established practice, but of course, don't cover tools, techniques, and lubrication, but should be helpful to anyone already having acquired those skills. To follow along, the pictures, stored on OneDrive, should be sorted by name.

I also have a set of pictures showing my assembly steps (pictures taken during disassembly!) of a Vostok 2416b. I never really meant to share those pictures so that's why they also include coloured arrows to suggest points (but not quantity) of lubrication. (white arrow = Moebius 9010, blue arrow = Moebius 9501, red arrow = Moebius 9104, yellow arrow = Moebius 9415). Going through those lubrication points now I have some small objections, but good enough, I guess!

Anyway, I hope that my pictures will contribute to this excellent thread and to promote our love for Vostok watches!


----------



## Slm643

I really like these posts, I'm not a watchmaker, but I do find it very interesting 

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


----------



## EndeavourDK

@VWatchie; Very well done and very good pictures too :-!

A small remark on picture 43 & 44 keyless, the very small intermediate sprocket. Have you ever noticed that the internal bore has on one side a slight chamfer? That chamfer has to go on top. Failure to do so may cause problems and interfere with the cover-plate, not always but I had too many. Since I noticed the chamfer and placed it the correct way, never again. If unaware, you have a 50% chance to assembly it correctly 

Perhaps we can combine forces again and help Matt in his Vostok repair section. I did sent him already some basic & specific Vostok tutorials of how to change hands, how to change a dial and how to change a date-wheel; this to help the "Modders" among us.
These tutorials haven't been posted jet, but Matt said he will do so shortly.

Anyway, nice to see you here again


----------



## VWatchie

EndeavourDK said:


> @VWatchie; Very well done and very good pictures too :-!
> 
> A small remark on picture 43 & 44 keyless, the very small intermediate sprocket. Have you ever noticed that the internal bore has on one side a slight chamfer? That chamfer has to go on top. Failure to do so may cause problems and interfere with the cover-plate, not always but I had too many. Since I noticed the chamfer and placed it the correct way, never again. If unaware, you have a 50% chance to assembly it correctly
> 
> Perhaps we can combine forces again and help Matt in his Vostok repair section. I did sent him already some basic & specific Vostok tutorials of how to change hands, how to change a dial and how to change a date-wheel; this to help the "Modders" among us.
> These tutorials haven't been posted jet, but Matt said he will do so shortly.
> 
> Anyway, nice to see you here again


Yes, I have noticed the chamfer on the intermediate wheel, but wasn't sure in what direction to place it, so good point, thanks! When you say _"chamfer has to go on top"_, do mean that the chamfer should be facing you when placed on the main plate? I would assume the answer is yes, but I just want to make sure! The "cover-plate" covers the parts of the keyless works (hence often called just that) but the "correct" terminology is in fact "setting lever spring". I don't mean to teach you, and you probably already know as I know that you are a skilled watch repairer. Just thinking about those who might be new to watch movement terminology.

Those tutorials will be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure! (I would have "killed" ;-) for them when I was new!) and if I can contribute with my pictures (I believe they can be downloaded), or something else I'd be glad to. Perhaps my "Differences between Vostok 24XX parts" posts over at watchrepairtalk.com can be of some use? Please feel free to use!

Thanks, and nice to be here comrades!


----------



## EndeavourDK

VWatchie said:


> Yes, I have noticed the chamfer on the intermediate wheel, but wasn't sure in what direction to place it, so good point, thanks! When you say _"chamfer has to go on top"_, do mean that the chamfer should be facing you when placed on the main plate? I would assume the answer is yes, but I just want to make sure! The "cover-plate" covers the parts of the keyless works (hence often called just that) but the "correct" terminology is in fact "setting lever spring". I don't mean to teach you, and you probably already know as I know that you are a skilled watch repairer. Just thinking about those who might be new to watch movement terminology.
> 
> Those tutorials will be greatly appreciated by many I'm sure! (I would have "killed" ;-) for them when I was new!) and if I can contribute with my pictures (I believe they can be downloaded), or something else I'd be glad to. Perhaps my "Differences between Vostok 24XX parts" posts over at watchrepairtalk.com can be of some use? Please feel free to use!
> 
> Thanks, and nice to be here comrades!


Yes, the correct term would perhaps be "setting lever spring", but they come in different shapes & forms. In case of the Vostok it's a plate with lots of "extra" functions and by lack of a better word for the precise descriptions of all these functions, I assumed people working on the keyless would know what I mean :think:
Sometimes using the precise description, although technically being correct, can, depending on the audience, be confusion too. I guess you know that all too well ;-)

Yes, the chamfer of the little intermediate wheel has to face up, towards the keyless "coverplate" / setting-lever-spring, facing you.

On the internet there is lots of information on how to do certain aspects of watch repair, but according to Matt there is a great need for very Vostok specific. Matt is the coordinator for these tutorials but has, as I understood, at the moment some other issues.
I guess we have to wait a little and as soon as I hear from him, we'll team up


----------



## VWatchie

EndeavourDK said:


> Yes, the correct term would perhaps be "setting lever spring", but they come in different shapes & forms. In case of the Vostok it's a plate with lots of "extra" functions and by lack of a better word for the precise descriptions of all these functions, I assumed people working on the keyless would know what I mean :think:
> *Sometimes using the precise description, although technically being correct, can, depending on the audience, be confusion too. I guess you know that all too well ;-)*
> 
> *Yes, the chamfer of the little intermediate wheel has to face up, towards the keyless "coverplate" / setting-lever-spring, facing you.*
> 
> On the internet there is lots of information on how to do certain aspects of watch repair, but according to Matt there is a great need for very Vostok specific. Matt is the coordinator for these tutorials but has, as I understood, at the moment some other issues.
> *I guess we have to wait a little and as soon as I hear from him, we'll team up *


Couldn't agree with you more! And to make matters worse, the same part is called different things depending on location, like "mainspring barrel = going barrel = first wheel...", and "yoke = return bar = ..." and so on. As you say, what matters is that we understand each other, and I knew perfectly well what you meant by "cover plate" but many would call it a setting lever spring which isn't easy to grasp before you understand the setting lever of the keyless works.

Crystal clear! :-!

Looking forward to it!


----------



## EndeavourDK

The idea is that these "Tutorials" are placed in the Vostok Repair section, but due to technical problems this is currently not possible. 
Matt will sort this out later.
For now, I like to share how I change hands, change a dial and change a date-wheel on a Vostok 24xx movement. It's my way of doing but as they say here in Europe: "there are many ways leading to Rome", meaning that there are many ways to achieve the same end result(s) . It may be far from perfect and may have lots of room for improvement, but for quite a few years it has worked very fine for me 

Ideally, for clarity & readability, I would liked to have the text in between the pictures, but so far I haven't figured out how the WUS text-editor allows me to do so. Therefore first the text followed by the corresponding numbered pictures.

To start with the Hands and Dial change;


Picture #1: the tools & materials I'm using;

1) Fine-tip stainless steel tweezers (Stainless Steel = none-magnetic). A cheap set of (6pcs) tweezers can be obtained from eBay, search words: "anti static tweezers" "Stainless steel tweezers"; £5 - £7 including shipping.
2) A 3pcs set of hand setting pressers. Search on eBay for the words: "3Pcs Watch Repairs Hand Presser Fitting Tool Watchmakers Hands Fitter Press Set" costing about £7 including shipping from our friends in China.
Each presser has a different size hole in either end nylon tip. How to use them properly will be discussed further on in the walk-through (picture #25 onward).
3) Hand removers lever type. I have had other types of hand remover tools, but I found these levers to give more control & feeling. The lever type hand removers do come expensive or cheap. Bergeon charges £57 (add postage on top) for theirs and I'm sure they are perfect right out of the box. Mine are the "el-cheapo" Chinese version and cost about £5 including postage. Disadvantage: the lever tips were too thick for my liking and I had to ground them down, from the bottom up and polished the surfaces afterwards. A bit more work, but they work fine now and I saved £50 .... it's all up to you which tool to pick and your budget.
4) Watch case opener. There are many other openers on the market as well and they may work just as fine.
5) Magnification. I use relative expensive Sternkreuz eye-loups 2.8x, 3.3x, 5x and 10x. I started with the el-cheapo Chinese eye-loupes but through time and experiences, one starts to upgrade on the most essential tools ..... magnification is one of them, movement holders & screw-drivers are some of the others. There are many other magnification methods: Optivisors, microscopes, eye-glass loupes in case you wear glasses, etc. Pick whatever works best for you.
6) Universal movement holder; Bergeon 4040. This is the only one if your choice is an universal movement holder. If you value your movement, forget about the Chinese look alike, seriously ! ...... I've been there .....
7) Finger cots. Preventing finger-prints on movement and dial. From our Chinese friends, 50x for £1 or so 
8) A decent set of screwdrivers. Ball bearing rotating heads and hardened tips: 0.6mm, 0.8mm, 1.0mm, 1.2mm, 1.4mm, 1.6mm and 2.0mm. Also a pair of brass tweezers.
9) A divider-tray to keep & store watch parts. I like to work organized & standardized; hence the marking-tape in the divisions.
10) A few pieces of peg-wood, ø 3mm. Make sure that you "freshly cut" the tips before you start. I use a pointed-tip on one end, a chisel type tip on the other end.
11) A movement "pillow". There are the "official", but I use an old stuffed Nokia leather telephone pouch stuffed with some foam 
12) Dial protector. One can buy them or make them yourself. I cut one myself out of a 0.2mm plastic sheet. One can also use a clean plastic bag. Again; there are many ways to Rome.
13) A casualty ..... I used for this walk-through a CCCP "Tankist" in a 33 Komandirskie housing.
14) Not in the picture: a rubber hand blower ..... you will see & need this one at the end of this walk-through.

Picture #2;
Best is to let the movement run out and set all the hands in line. Position the hands such that you leave space on either side for the hand-levers. Also handy is to set the hands not far away from the date-change before you pull them. This will later be handy when finding the point of date-change when the hands are off.

Picture #3;
Remove back-cover and rubber-seal. I use some paper tissue underneath the crystal to avoid scratching.

Picture #4;
Pull the winding stem by depressing the set-lever push-button. Some people find re-engaging of the winding stem later on easier when the setting the watch in the "time-setting" position before pulling the winding stem. To do so, pull the crown out in the time-setting position and then pull the winding stem. I have had no problems with the Vostok 24xx movements in either position and have no preference. There are some other movements however, like the Poljot 3133 chronograph, were it is a must to put the lever in the time-setting position before pulling the winding stem.

Picture #5;
Winding stem + crown pulled.

Picture #6;
Place the movement pillow on top of the movement / housing (which are laying upside down) and while securely holding the pillow & watch housing, turn / flip everything over so the movement rest on top of the movement pillow. Carefully lift and remove the housing, leaving the movement resting on the pillow.

Picture #7;
Place for stability reasons the movement, which still has its movement spacer-ring, in a movement holder.

Picture #8 & #9;
Place carefully the dial protector on the dial. Take great care not to scratch the dial and / or to touch the fragile lume-dots at the hour-markers. The older the lume, the more fragile the lume becomes. Not only the lume hours dots on the dial, but also the lume on the hands has become fragile. Another problem with some of the older Vostok dials is that through time the paint may have become soft and therefor may stick to the dial protector. In that case the dial protector will cause some damage to the dial paint / surface and I haven't found a method / solution to solve that problem yet :-(
Make sure that the dial protector is clean before placing.

Picture #10 & #11;
Slide the hand levers on either side underneath the hour hand. If required, use magnification to ensure proper placing of the levers. Once they are securely underneath, keep them "firm" and lift the hands until all the hands are off. Warning: hands of older watches, which have never been pulled since the watch left the factory, may be quite tight. Therefor make sure that the lever-tips are properly underneath the hour hand and hold some "pressure" to keep them firmly underneath while doing the lifting. If the hands are really tight, they may need a few lifting attempts to "soften-them-up". Use common sense, delicate feeling and adjusted / appropriate "forces"; these levers multiply your force quite a bit. Also the dial protector protects the dial only to a certain extent.

Picture #12;
Tip: sometimes one doesn't get a good grip underneath the hour-hand. Sometime the hour hand was set too low in the first place preventing the lever-tip to fully slide underneath. This may cause that the edges of the hour hand bend upwards. One can straighten these edges again by placing the "eye" of the hand between the flat ends of some brass tweezers and apply (finger) pressure. Be careful when manipulating the hand, the lume may have become brittle.

Picture #13;
Place & store the hands safe.

______________________________________________________
The following is for the extended version in case the dial has to be changed out as well.
For just the hands, continue reading from point #23
______________________________________________________

Picture #14;
If you haven't already, time to put the finger cots on. Sometimes these finger cots are shipped in a plastic bag with some talc powder. Make sure your finger cots are clean before working on the movement / dial. Working and touching the dial has to done with care and caution. If the dial surface is firm and hard, one can touch it. If the surface paint has become soft, the dial has to handled only on the edges. Avoid as best as you can toughing the lume dots as they can be fragile.
Also take great care of you finger placement. Best is to hold the movement by the wheel train bridge (picture #16) or winding bridge. Avoid placing you fingers anywhere close to the balance.

Picture #15;
In order to get to the two dial screws, the movement spacer ring has to be removed.
Undo the two movement spacer ring screws only 1 to 1-1/2 turn, enough so the spacer ring is able to rotate. One can also take the screws fully out, but it is more "fiddly" to get them back in later and would require more touching / handling of the dial / movement with you fingers.

Picture #16 & #17;
Once the movement spacer ring is able to rotate, rotate the "winding-stem-cut-out" in the spacer ring towards the screw and lift the spacer ring up.

Picture #18 & #19;
Unscrew the two dial screws with about a 3 full turns. No need to take them fully out, but one has to be sure that they are fully free of both dial feet.

Picture #20 & #21;
Remove the dial. Sometimes this is easier said than done. There can be various reasons why the dial doesn't come easy. Slightly bend or slightly damaged dial feet are common causes. Less common, but it does occur, is that a dial feet (or both) has (have been) broken off and the previous owner / watchmaker has glued the dial to the movement, using glue or double sided sticky tape.
The dial feet are located in the same line / spot as the dial screws. If the dial doesn't come on its own, a little prying may be required. The chisel-end of a peg wood is a good tool to start with. Pry between the movement and the bottom of the dial, carefully avoiding scratching the date-wheel. When the dial gives trouble, use magnification a study what the reason / cause may be.
In extreme cases, when a dial is glued to the movement, a scalpel or a razor-blade may be required to pry and separate the dial from the movement.
What ever you do: Take your time !!
Alternate prying between either side where the dial screws are located, slowly separating the dial from the movement.
Consult the forum when experiencing great difficulties.

When replacing the dial, or placing another dial, ensure that it is fully flat onto the movement before tightening the dial screws. Press the dial slightly onto the movement and tighten the dial screw. Same at the opposite side.

In this example the movement is a 2414 with a date complicatin. This is the same as an automatic 2416b movement whereby the hour wheel and washer are underneath a date cover-plate. With 2409 and 2415 movements, there is no date cover-plate and the dial keeps both items in place. With those movements, when the dial is off, the hour wheel and the washer are free to remove / drop off. Make sure that both (hour wheel and washer) are back in place before (re-)placing the dial.

Picture #22;
Replace the movement spacer ring. First slide the ring underneath the spacer ring screw on the opposite side of where the winding stem sits. Make sure that the cut out slot in the spacer ring is positioned on top, where the other screw sits. Like the removal in picture #16 and #17, but now in reverse. Ensure that the cut out slot in the spacer ring lines up with the winding stem entrance in the main plate before tightening the ring screws.

_______________________________________________________________
Continuation for (re)placing the hands.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Picture #23;
Insert the winding stem. One can have a firm grip on the movement spacer ring.

Picture #24;
For stability and handling reasons I put the movement in a movement holder.

Pictures #25, #26, #27 & #28;
Time to select the right size of the hand setting presser for this movement. I use a set of 3x hand pressers, each of them do have different colors and differnt hole sizes on either end. Since they come cheap and I do have only one set, I don't know and can't compare if other sets do have the same combination holes on each color press.
For all the 24xx movements you only require two hole sizes. One which just slides over the cannon pinion and bottoms out on top of the hour wheel and one which goes over the seconds-pinion and bottoms out on top of the cannon pinion (picture #26).
Picture #27 shows that one end of my red presser fits nicely & tightly over the cannon pinion and bottoms out on top of the hour wheel. Since these ends are easy to mix up, one can put a little tape around or make a marker on the correct end.
Picture #28 shows the presser which has the smallest hole, fitting over the seconds pinion, bottoming out on top of the cannon pinion. This happens to be one end of the black presser on my set.

The reason why this is so important is that when setting a hand with the correct size presser, the top of the hand will sit flush with the top of the hour wheel or the cannon pinion respectively. This will place & space the hands correctly, leaving enough space between the hour hand and the dial for subsequent removal (either by you or by the next owner / watchmaker) and leaves the correct spacing between the hour- & minute hand.
By using the wrong pressers or method and setting the hand too deep, the hands may touch the dial or each other and subsequent pulling them could cause trouble / damage.

Picture #29, #30, #31 and #32;
Pull the winding stem in the time setting position and rotate anti-clockwise until the date changes. When the hands were set not that far away from the date-change, as described in point #2 , the date change shouldn't be far away. If the date change went too fast and you are too far over, do the 12-8-12 hour date change method and try again. Stop exactly after the date has changed.
When the date has just changed, place the hour hand exactly on the 12-o-clock position. Give it just a little press, just enough for the hand to stay in place.
Repeat the date-change to confirm that the hour hand is exactly on the 12-o-clock position when the date changes. Make small adjustments if required using peg wood (picture #30), carefully avoiding touching the dial. If the hand comes off while making the adjustment, give it a little press again. Repeat until satisfied. Press the hour hand fully down and check whether it is level / horizontal with the dial and flush with the top hour-wheel; picture #31 (small level adjustments with the respective presser can be made as described a little further in pictures #35 and #36). Perform the last checks for correct timing and seating.

Picture #32, & #33;
Place the minute hand on top of the hour hand. Again press slightly with the appropriate presser. Check if the date changes when both hands are in the 12-o-clock position. Adjust the minute hand with peg wood if required. Repeat until satisfied. Before pressing the minute hand on fully, perform the last check in the 6-o-clock position. Adjust if required.
It is far more important that the 6-o-clock lines up than that the date changes at exactly 12-o-clock. A date change a few minuted before or a few minutes after 12-o-clock is acceptable. Only when (unacceptable) far off the mark, the setting of the hour-hand has to be repeated.

Picture #34, #35 & #36;
Press the minute hand in place and check the whole 24hrs around that both hands do run free and horizontal. Small level adjustments can be made with the presser tool, as shown in picture #35 & #36.

Picture #37;
On a hand winding Vostok 2414 or a 2409 movement, the seconds pinion has free axial movement and is pushed up by means of a leave-spring. If not supported, placing and pushing the seconds hand down will only result in pushing the pinion down against the small leave-spring load. Therefore the leave spring needs to be supported.
On a Vostok automatic 2416b or a 2415 movement the build up is the same, but by these movements the leave-spring is supported by the automatic gearing bridge and therefor points / pictures #38 and #40 are not required.

Picture #38;
To support the spring, and thereby supporting the seconds hand pinion, I place the movement on a flat surface, such that the crown is free. The edge of my cutting mat does just that.

Picture #39 & #40;
Carefully place the seconds hand on the pinion and press in down. I used the tip of peg-wood, but a hand presser with the smallest hole will do fine to.
Now a bit more tricky method; If the hand doesn't go deep enough or sticks up to high, one can flip the movement over and support the seconds hand on a flat surface. Carefully press the leave spring down where the pinion is situated. Do this carefully and perhaps in increments with more checks. Pushing the pinion in too far and the seconds hand may make contact with, and run on top of the minute hand. The only way to correct this is the pull all hands and start all over again :-(
Also, by placing the dial and hands on a flat surface may change the hands alignment or do damage to the lume dots ...... be very careful & gentle.

Picture #41, #42 & #43;

Check all hands for horizontal / level and free movement. If required small adjustments can be made as shown in picture #42 on either side of the hand. Be careful not to push the hand deeper onto the hour wheel or cannon pinion.
Check also the tail end of the seconds hand for free movement and space; picture #43.

Picture #44, #45 & #46;

When all is completely satisfactory, pull the winding stem, resting the movement on its spacer ring (#44). Blow the movement / dial and the crystal inside the housing clean from any dust or other fibers. Place the housing over the movement (picture #45), flip all (including movement-pillow) over. Make sure the movement drop nicely inside the housing. Insert the winding stem, install the rubber-seal and back-cover (all exactly the same procedure as dismantling, but now in the reverse order; #6,#5,#4).

Observe for proper running for a full 24 hours and if all is fine: ........ a job well done ;-)

Hope my write up is of any help ;-)

If despite of the above explanation you still have or encounter problems, please seek help on the general forum. 
There are many capable comrades willing to help you further ;-)


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## EndeavourDK

How I change a date-wheel;

Obviously, one has to remove the hands and dial, described above, in order to change the date-wheel.

*Warnings:*
- The click-spring is one of the Vostok 24xx movement most notorious springs. One little mistake or a wrong move and it will fly away. Make sure your desk and floor are clean, but once the spring has flown, you have a very small chance finding it back. Also these spring aren't easy available.
Prevention is therefor the key !!
- Use the proper size screw-drivers, tweezers and sharpened peg-wood. Clean fingers or use finger-cots.

Picture #1;
With the movement secured, start undoing the 3x cover-plate screws in sequence 3, 2 and 1. By doing it this way, the click-spring is allowed to release its tension underneath the cover-plate, without flying away.
Best is the remove each tiny screw directly after unscrewing and place them somewhere save.










Picture #2
Lift the cover-plate, keeping an eye on the whereabouts of the click-spring. Remove the click-spring with great respect and place it somewhere save. Note that the spring has a longer and a shorter leg.

Picture #3
Turn the Click slightly up, so it is out of the way when handling the date-wheel.

Picture #4
Remove the old date wheel.

Picture #5
Place the new date wheel, concentric so the date-wheel out-edge is nicely flush with the outer-edge of the movement.

Picture #6
Replace the cover-plate. This time the screw sequence doens't matter. What does matter is that the date-wheel is free to rotate when placing the cover-plate and tightening the screws. Once the cover-plate is back on, check free rotation of the date-wheel and push the click back down again.

Picture #7
Now the most tricky bit of the whole operation. Carefully place the click-spring on top of the cover-plate, long leg down, short leg on top.
Very carefully (take your time) push the spring in the direction of the arrow and make sure that the long end drops in the hole of the cover-plate. Slowly continue until the edge of the spring slides over the edge of the cover-plate hole, as shown in Picture #8 with the arrow.

Picture #9
Place your right hand index-finger over the edge of the hole, preventing the spring from jumping out. Manipulate with a piece of peg-wood the short leg of the spring down until it drops in the hole of the cover-plate. Make 100% sure that the short leg of the spring is well secured underneath the cover-plate before you release your right hand index finger. Failure to do so and the spring will be gone .....

Picture #10
Everything is back in place. Check the date-wheel for rotation and observe the working of the click.


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## 24h

Great info EndeavourDK! I'm guilty of sometimes setting the hour hand too far down.
The tip from picture #31, "Flush with the top hour-wheel" helps a lot!


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## EndeavourDK

24h said:


> Great info EndeavourDK! I'm guilty of sometimes setting the hour hand too far down.
> The tip from picture #31, "Flush with the top hour-wheel" helps a lot!


As long as you select the right size presser, you can hardly go wrong ...... preparation is the key and take your time ;-)


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## 24h

EndeavourDK said:


> As long as you select the right size presser, you can hardly go wrong ...... preparation is the key and take your time ;-)


I was most likely choosing the wrong size. Rather than using a tool with an inner diameter larger than the hour wheel "tube", I need to use one slightly smaller.


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## jimzilla

Good evening everyone I hope all is well. I am having a problem when I try to install an old style Komradskie movement into a new modern day case. I can't get the crown/stem to seat all the way to wind the watch. If I seat the stem fully in till I hear the click with the back off the watch it will wind when I pull the stem out, then when I pull the stem out one more click to set the time and then screw it all the way back in , then unscrew the crown to wind the watch it will not wind all it does is set the time. Anyone understand what is going on and have a cure?, thank you in advance, James.


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## jimzilla

EndeavourDK said:


> As long as you select the right size presser, you can hardly go wrong ...... preparation is the key and take your time ;-)


Thank you for the tutorial, I wish I would have had this information a long tine ago.... I bookmarked this. I did not know how to select the correct presser and properly install the hands until I read this tutorial! this should be a sticky for all noobs to read.
thank you, thank you. Best regards EndeavourDK. :-! :-! :-!


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## EndeavourDK

jimzilla said:


> Thank you for the tutorial, I wish I would have had this information a long tine ago.... I bookmarked this. I did not know how to select the correct presser and properly install the hands until I read this tutorial! this should be a sticky for all noobs to read.
> thank you, thank you. Best regards EndeavourDK. :-! :-! :-!


Thank you and I do hope it does work for you too ;-)

Yes, it would be nice if (also other) articles about common problems wouldn't sink away underneath the many tera-bites. I've no idea how "stickies" work.


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## Dave51

EndeavourDK, that was great! I know I will be coming back to this again and again. It is super helpful. I have done a couple of mods and things will go much smoother next time thanks to you!

Question: Do you have a good trick for replacing the dial/hands/movement into the case after all is done? I arrived at your method of removing the assembly, but have not yet come up with a good method for reassembly.


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## EndeavourDK

Dave51 said:


> EndeavourDK, that was great! I know I will be coming back to this again and again. It is super helpful. I have done a couple of mods and things will go much smoother next time thanks to you!
> 
> Question: Do you have a good trick for replacing the dial/hands/movement into the case after all is done? I arrived at your method of removing the assembly, but have not yet come up with a good method for reassembly.


I edited the tutorial. Hope that helps ;-)


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## EndeavourDK

I've been asked about Vostok winding-stem length; as far as I'm aware there are 3 different lengths for Amphibians. 
I'm not 100% sure whether they are identified by: short, medium & long and also whether Komandirskies winding stems do differ in length :think:
Perhaps another comrade has more on this ?


Anyway, this is the information I have. The pictures are in the sequence: short, medium & long.


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## Dave51

EndeavourDK said:


> I edited the tutorial. Hope that helps ;-)


Thanks!


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## SKNZ

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Sorry to tack this question on the end of this post but posting to this forum is painfully confusing. I have an old USSR Vostok Amphibia with a 2209 movement. Wondered if anyone knows what kind of lume they used back then? Plan to refurbish dial and hands but being careful in case lume is radium based. I know its been discontinued since 60's but not sure if USSR discont at same time or cont using into 70's? Any advice appreciated.


----------



## EndeavourDK

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



SKNZ said:


> Sorry to tack this question on the end of this post but posting to this forum is painfully confusing. I have an old USSR Vostok Amphibia with a 2209 movement. Wondered if anyone knows what kind of lume they used back then? Plan to refurbish dial and hands but being careful in case lume is radium based. I know its been discontinued since 60's but not sure if USSR discont at same time or cont using into 70's? Any advice appreciated.


I known nothing about it, but perhaps the 3rd remark in this link is of any use to you :think:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/q-expertise-thread-watch-legit-franken-part-2-a-4514699-271.html

Otherwise, open a new thread with some clear detailed pictures of your watch / dial and ask the forum ....

Hope that helps ;-)


----------



## mister_p

EndeavourDK said:


> I've been asked about Vostok winding-stem length; as far as I'm aware there are 3 different lengths for Amphibians.
> I'm not 100% sure whether they are identified by: short, medium & long and also whether Komandirskies winding stems do differ in length :think:
> Perhaps another comrade has more on this ?
> 
> Anyway, this is the information I have. The pictures are in the sequence: short, medium & long.


According to Meranom, a crown that fits 060 case also fits 120 case. And crown that fits 090, 100 and 110 also fits Amphibia 150 and 670 cases, and Komandirskie Classic 350, 650 and 020 cases. I have successfully interchanged crowns between 110 and 020 cases.


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## EndeavourDK

mister_p said:


> According to Meranom, a crown that fits 060 case also fits 120 case. And crown that fits 090, 100 and 110 also fits Amphibia 150 and 670 cases, and Komandirskie Classic 350, 650 and 020 cases. I have successfully interchanged crowns between 110 and 020 cases.


When measuring the length of the stem including the crown "compressed", than I measure from the tip of the stem to top crown;

Short: 21.3mm
Medium: 22.03mm
Long: 23.05mm

I'm sure that certain stems will fit other cases. However, one has to be aware that when tightening the crown and it doesn't want to go any further, did it stop due to the length of the winding stem being too long, or did the crown rubber seal bottom out on the crown tube, providing, as it supposed to be, the water-tight seal?


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## Matt_Bored_O

.
I am pleased to welcome VWatchie and EndeavourDK to this 'Guide' thread.

We are very fortunate to have them share their skills and knowledge.


There has never been a better time to be a Vostok collector. 


Cheers, 
Matt


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## Matt_Bored_O

.
If some of the photos of a post do not display, right click on the small icon where the photo should be and choose:

'Reload Image'


----------



## thewatchadude

EndeavourDK said:


> How I change a date-wheel;
> 
> Obviously, one has to remove the hands and dial, described above, in order to change the date-wheel.
> 
> *Warnings:*
> - The click-spring is one of the Vostok 24xx movement most notorious springs. One little mistake or a wrong move and it will fly away. Make sure your desk and floor are clean, but once the spring has flown, you have a very small chance finding it back. Also these spring aren't easy available.
> Prevention is therefor the key !!
> - Use the proper size screw-drivers, tweezers and sharpened peg-wood. Clean fingers or use finger-cots.
> 
> Picture #1;
> With the movement secured, start undoing the 3x cover-plate screws exactly in the sequence as given in the picture; 1, 2 and 3. By doing it this way, the click-spring is allowed to release its tension underneath the cover-plate, without flying away.
> Best is the remove each tiny screw directly after unscrewing and place them somewhere save.
> 
> Picture #2
> Lift the cover-plate, keeping an eye on the whereabouts of the click-spring. Remove the click-spring with great respect and place it somewhere save. Note that the spring has a longer and a shorter leg.
> 
> Picture #3
> Turn the Click slightly up, so it is out of the way when handling the date-wheel.
> 
> Picture #4
> Remove the old date wheel.
> 
> Picture #5
> Place the new date wheel, concentric so the date-wheel out-edge is nicely flush with the outer-edge of the movement.
> 
> Picture #6
> Replace the cover-plate. This time the screw sequence doens't matter. What does matter is that the date-wheel is free to rotate when placing the cover-plate and tightening the screws. Once the cover-plate is back on, check free rotation of the date-wheel and push the click back down again.
> 
> Picture #7
> Now the most tricky bit of the whole operation. Carefully place the click-spring on top of the cover-plate, long leg down, short leg on top.
> Very carefully (take your time) push the spring in the direction of the arrow and make sure that the long end drops in the hole of the cover-plate. Slowly continue until the edge of the spring slides over the edge of the cover-plate hole, as shown in Picture #8 with the arrow.
> 
> Picture #9
> Place your right hand index-finger over the edge of the hole, preventing the spring from jumping out. Manipulate with a piece of peg-wood the short leg of the spring down until it drops in the hole of the cover-plate. Make 100% sure that the short leg of the spring is well secured underneath the cover-plate before you release your right hand index finger. Failure to do so and the spring will be gone .....
> 
> Picture #10
> Everything is back in place. Check the date-wheel for rotation and observe the working of the click.


Many many thanks! I had been looking for such a guide for quite some time; I will no wbe able to finsh a mod project started long ago.


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## BreaksThings

Just be aware that some older date wheels are thicker than the new ones. I was swapping a movement on a cccp su2414 that needed a new mainspring and the datewheel would not swap. the old one was too thick and bound the movement up when the top plate was installed. Swapped the new date wheel back in and everything worked like butter....


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## Matt_Bored_O

BreaksThings said:


> ....some older date wheels are thicker than the new ones.....


Thank you for this info.

If a thick date wheel must be installed onto a modern 2414 /16 you can reduce the thickness by rubbing it onto a sheet of sand paper. First coarse, medium, then fine. Be sure to apply even pressure to prevent low spots. Protect the painted side with low adhesive painter's tape.

However, it is best to purchase a modern date wheel so that you don't have to damage a vintage wheel.


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## EndeavourDK

Some weird things are happening with the WUS software, which currently is going haywire. Post and pictures are simply disappearing.
In the "changing hands and dial" picture #40 has vanished.
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/guide-buying-modifying-repairing-vostok-amphibia-3042242-46.html

In the "change date-wheel" picture #1 has vanished.
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/guide-buying-modifying-repairing-vostok-amphibia-3042242-46.html

Here are both pictures again:


----------



## passaloutre

Anyone in the US who services Vostok watches?

My amphibia has a few problems:

It has a tendency to build up condensation (inside) moving from humid outdoors to air-conditioned indoors, and vice versa. I'm hoping this might just need replacing o rings or gaskets.

I take it off when I go to bed, and it is usually dead by the time I wake up in the morning. Based on the time on the dial, it seems to only last a couple hours after I take it off. Is this typical of these watches, or is this an indication that I might need to send it in for a tuneup?

I know I could just buy a new one, but I like this case and dial. I don't necessarily mind paying more than the watch it worth to get it up and running at its best, but of course it would be nice if it's not too expensive to fix.


----------



## VWatchie

passaloutre said:


> Anyone in the US who services Vostok watches?
> 
> My amphibia has a few problems:
> 
> It has a tendency to build up condensation (inside) moving from humid outdoors to air-conditioned indoors, and vice versa. I'm hoping this might just need replacing o rings or gaskets.
> 
> I take it off when I go to bed, and it is usually dead by the time I wake up in the morning. Based on the time on the dial, it seems to only last a couple hours after I take it off. Is this typical of these watches, or is this an indication that I might need to send it in for a tuneup?
> 
> I know I could just buy a new one, but I like this case and dial. I don't necessarily mind paying more than the watch it worth to get it up and running at its best, but of course it would be nice if it's not too expensive to fix.


Any committed watch repairer should be able to help you.

The case gasket and/or the crown gasket are the most likely culprits for the condensation. These gaskets can be replaced if you know how to remove the case back lid and the crown (please see EndeavourDK's excellent tutorials in this thread), and you must silicone grease the gaskets richly as the gaskets tend to absorb the grease when they are new (re-grease after a few days). Be aware that the gasket sizes vary depending on whether it is an Amphibian or a Komandirskie, and some Komandirskies require an Amphibian crown gasket. I recommend you get a set of gaskets for the Amphibian and a set of gaskets for the Komandirskie unless you are sure of what you need. Search eBay for "Amphibian seal"/"Komandirskie seal" or get them from meranom.com. Sometimes, although unusual, the crystal doesn't fit as it should and needs to be replaced (I've recorded a video showing how it is done). I guess the case back lid could be skewed but I find that highly unlikely, but you can always have a look. I also recommend that you don't wear the watch until you've taken care of this. Store it in a dry place. Condensation can cause a lot of havoc on the movement making parts rust.

The power reserve of a fully wound and healthy Vostok 24XX should be well over 30 hours, so something is definitely wrong with your movement. Even if it is an automatic (cal. 2415 and cal 2416) the power reserve should easily last overnight, and to the following morning as well. There could be many reasons for this, one of them being the mainspring slipping too early in the mainspring barrel if it is an automatic, but it could also be a problem with the automatic works, but hard to say exactly what without a proper investigation. I would try replacing the barrel complete, you'll find them on eBay and meranom.com. Just make sure you get the right type of barrel for your movement and be aware that there are an old version and a new version type of barrel. You can read about it here.

No, you can not buy a new one! Every watch has a soul, is priceless and irreplaceable, no matter if it is a Patek, Poljot, or Vostok! ;-)

Good luck and please keep us updated on your progress!


----------



## VWatchie

I am not officially entitled to give EndeavourDK a medal for his excellent work with the tutorials, but if I were entitled, I'd give him this:


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## EndeavourDK

Thank you ;-)

I'm flattered and just ordered a suit for it ..... :-d :-d :-d


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## VWatchie

*Vostok 2409 Service Walkthrough Disassembly Pictures (Please sort by name in ascending order)
Vostok 2409 Service Walkthrough Assembly Pictures (Please sort by name in ascending order)*









My first "calibre love" was the Vostok 2409; a reliable Soviet/Russian 17 jewels manual workhorse without any complications which has been around since 1970.

As many of you know, modern-day Vostok Amphibians use the automatic Vostok 2415 (w/o date complication) and the 2416 (with date complication) calibres, but the Amphibian that I'm servicing in this walkthrough, an Amphibian Albatross Radio Room, popular among collectors, is from the 1980s and in those days the manual 2409, as well as its predecessor the 2209, was commonly used in the Amphibians as well as the Komandirskies.

While I was servicing this watch, I noticed that the crystal didn't fit perfectly in the watch case. Being a dead serious dive watch originally designed for the Soviet navy this was, of course, unacceptable, so I replaced the crystal and video recorded the event in my "Bergeon No 5500 Crystal Press Review".

For me, the 2409 was a great movement to get started with as it probably is the most affordable movement on the planet, and spare parts are readily available and cost next to nothing. A lost or damaged part never spells financial disaster. Also, eBay offers an abundance of used Vostok watches in decent condition housing this movement for as little as $20 and sometimes less. A brand new Vostok 2409 (www.meranom.com) can be had for as little as $27. Be aware that, almost without exception, the eBay listings always state that these Vostok watches have been serviced, but in my experience they rarely are. That is, an excellent opputunity for those of us who enjoy servicing and repairing watches!

A somewhat tricky bit about the 2409 is to remove and replace the anti-shock springs. For this, I use a self-made tool made from peg wood. It's shown in one of the assembly pictures together with a description of how I made it. A very similar tool is demonstrated in this video.

So, if you want a whole lot of fun for next to nothing when it comes to money, there is no other movement I would recommend before the Vostok 24XX movements, and the 2409 is a great starting point if you have a desire to begin tinkering with watches. Be warned though; tinkering may take over a substantial chunk of your life! ;-)


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## VWatchie

EndeavourDK said:


> Thank you ;-)
> 
> I'm flattered and just ordered a suit for it ..... :-d :-d :-d


Great! Remember to post a picture of yourself wearing it once it arrives! :-d


----------



## EndeavourDK

VWatchie said:


> A somewhat tricky bit about the 2409 is to remove and replace the anti-shock springs. For this, I use a self-made tool made from peg wood. It's shown in one of the assembly pictures together with a description of how I made it. A very similar tool is demonstrated in this video.


Excellent walkthrough with excellent pictures ....... my hats off to you !! :-!

Two things;

1) I use the same anti-shock spring removal / placing tool as you do and they work indeed as a treat. I had a picture of it on WRT with a cross-sectional drawing (Molnija 3602 movement). Since it works so good, I like to re-post that picture here. Mine is made of a 3mm peg-wood, same 1mm hole.

2) I think you deserve a decoration too, hereby attached. Now you can order your suit and we can start forming the line-up :-d :-d :-d


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## VWatchie

EndeavourDK said:


> Excellent walkthrough with excellent pictures ....... my hats off to you !! :-!
> 
> Two things;
> 
> 1) I use the same anti-shock spring removal / placing tool as you do and they work indeed as a treat. I had a picture of it on WRT with a cross-sectional drawing (Molnija 3602 movement). Since it works so good, I like to re-post that picture here. Mine is made of a 3mm peg-wood, same 1mm hole.
> 
> 2) I think you deserve a decoration too, hereby attached. Now you can order your suit and we can start forming the line-up :-d :-d :-d


1) I've seen many people ask about this kind of anti-shock spring and how to safely remove it and replace it, so your illustration is and will be much appreciated by future readers. So, just to make sure, the only difference between yours and my Vostok anti-shock spring tool is that yours uses a 3 mm in diameter peg wood stick while mine uses 2 mm and that the 1 mm hole of my tool is shallow while yours is deeper. I don't think any of this would make any difference!?

2) I look forward to marching up and down the Moscow Red Square with the crowds cheering us on! :-d


----------



## EndeavourDK

VWatchie said:


> 1) I've seen many people ask about this kind of anti-shock spring and how to safely remove it and replace it, so your illustration is and will be much appreciated by future readers. So, just to make sure, the only difference between yours and my Vostok anti-shock spring tool is that yours uses a 3 mm in diameter peg wood stick while mine uses 2 mm and that the 1 mm hole of my tool is shallow while yours is deeper. I don't think any of this would make any difference!?
> 
> 2) I look forward to marching up and down the Moscow Red Square with the crowds cheering us on! :-d


1) No, I don't think operationally it would make any difference (have never tried a 2mm though). A 3mm peg-wood has IMHO a bit more "beef" to it, perhaps a bit more "forgiving" when drilling the hole, but that I guess would be all. Whether the hole in my peg wood is that deep ? .... the drawing is not on scale and more for illustration purposes. Sometimes exaggerating make things a bit more clear ... 

2) There are more comrades on this forum who did & do excellent work. If we were to decorate them all, before you know we have a whole Russian watch army to fill the Red Square :-d

And yes, one can't get enough of the Monty Python nor the Muppet show: 



 :-d


----------



## VWatchie

EndeavourDK said:


> 1) No, I don't think operationally it would make any difference (have never tried a 2mm though). A 3mm peg-wood has IMHO a bit more "beef" to it, perhaps a bit more "forgiving" when drilling the hole, but that I guess would be all. Whether the hole in my peg wood is that deep ? .... the drawing is not on scale and more for illustration purposes. Sometimes exaggerating make things a bit more clear ...
> 
> 2) There are more comrades on this forum who did & do excellent work. If we were to decorate them all, before you know we have a whole Russian watch army to fill the Red Square :-d
> 
> And yes, one can't get enough of the Monty Python nor the Muppet show:
> 
> 
> 
> :-d


1. Well, that's a very good point as expressed by a true engineer! I do remember it was a bit tricky to drill (by hand) with such small margins, so I do think a 3 mm in diameter peg wood stick is the better option. Anyway, if 2 mm is what you have I have proven it can be done! ;-) Ah, I misinterpreted the drawn illustration and didn't realize the hole was deep for pedagogic reasons. Well, I'm a man so I interpret everything literally, or more likely, just not smart enough. ;-)

2. Oh yes, let's not forget all wonderful contributors on this thread. Without them, I'd never been where I am today! I can't thank you all enough! Yes, one day we'll all be acclaimed and decorated on the Red Square! :-d

Ah, the Muppet Shop! :-d


----------



## longstride

Wow - This thread! Thank you *mattbeme* for the effort, so many questions answered! All in one easy space. Well done!


----------



## longstride

Am I right in thinking that the 670 case is the current production version of the original Vostok 320 Amphibia, made in Soviet times late 80's early 90's....?


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## mariomart

longstride said:


> Am I right in thinking that the 670 case is the current production version of the original Vostok 320 Amphibia, made in Soviet times late 80's early 90's....?


Made this just for you 

The case depth of 670 (Automatic) is 15.2 mm, and case depth for 320 (Manual) is 12.6 mm.


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## longstride

Awesome, Thank You! BTW *Mariomart* - are replacement parts easily available for the 320? How about replacement Stainless Bezels.


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## mariomart

longstride said:


> Awesome, Thank You! BTW *Mariomart* - are replacement parts easily available for the 320? How about replacement Stainless Bezels.


You're welcome.

As for replacement parts you will find that all current factory parts are interchangeable and still in production.


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## jimzilla

I installed a 2409 movement into a 020 case and the movement sits low in the watch. I used the thin Meranom case back for installing manual wind movements into amphibia cases why is it sitting low?


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## CrownVicHorse

Sorry if this has been asked before but couldn't find anything while doing searching. But is it normal for these watches to fog up on the inside when going outside on a really hot day? Today was the first time I've worn this watch on an day that's about 90 degrees with high humidity and noticed after coming inside it fogged up. Even though it's a dive watch I still don't like getting it wet if I don't have to so was figuring it was just due to the temperature change but wanted to check and see.


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## Matt_Bored_O

CrownVicHorse said:


> ... is it normal for these watches to fog up on the inside when going outside on a really hot day?
> 
> ...noticed after coming inside it fogged up.


So, this is occurring in both situations: when going outside when it's hot and humid, and occurs when going inside into an air conditioned room?

It is internal condensation and is experienced by many Vostok owners.

Most likely the air inside the watch case is too moist - contains too much water vapour.

To fix this or reduce the problem: in an air conditioned room, where the air is drier, you could unscrew the crown (if you don't have a caseback wrench to remove the back) and allow the air inside the watch to be replaced by the dry air of the room. Don't try to blow the air out of the watch with your mouth because breath contains far too much moisture. Let it sit for an hour or more and the air inside the watch should dry itself. Removing the case back is faster but requires the proper wrench.


----------



## jimzilla

jimzilla said:


> I installed a 2409 movement into a 020 case and the movement sits low in the watch. I used the thin Meranom case back for installing manual wind movements into amphibia cases why is it sitting low?


Does anyone have an opinion?, thanks james.


----------



## Father of five

Did you put the movement into an Amphibian movement holder/ring and is it attached to the ring right side up


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## jimzilla

Yes?, actually, I will check today. thank you Father of five.


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## Matt_Bored_O

.
James,

Perhaps you installed the dial too low = too close to the face of the 2409 movement.??

It appears the dial is not touching the bottom edge of the crystal / tension ring. 

Lift the dial up a small amount and ensure it is level.


Some of the new 2409 models are now produced with a plate to position the dial the same amount from the face of the movement as that created by the date mechanism of the 2414/2416. This makes dial installation easier and prevents the dial sitting too low and helps it sit level.


----------



## jimzilla

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> James,
> 
> Perhaps you installed the dial too low = too close to the face of the 2409 movement.??
> 
> It appears the dial is not touching the bottom edge of the crystal / tension ring.
> 
> Lift the dial up a small amount and ensure it is level.
> 
> Some of the new 2409 models are now produced with a plate to position the dial the same amount from the face of the movement as that created by the date mechanism of the 2414/2416. This makes dial installation easier and prevents the dial sitting too low and helps it sit level.


I ended up recasing the watch but it does still sit low. I did not know you would have to adjust the dial face up, I always figured the dial sits flat on the movement. thank you I will try that.


----------



## longstride

So am I correct in thinking thst the manual wind 2409 movement and the 2415 auto wind - are mostly the same, apart from the inclusion of the rotor and winding module on the 2415?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

longstride said:


> So am I correct in thinking thst the manual wind 2409 movement and the 2415 auto wind - are mostly the same, apart from the inclusion of the rotor and winding module on the 2415?


Correct.

Also, the mainspring of the 2415 is different from the 2409: it slips when fully wound to prevent over-winding. This is the typical style used for automatics.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> I ended up recasing the watch but it does still sit low. I did not know you would have to adjust the dial face up, I always figured the dial sits flat on the movement. thank you I will try that.


James,

Admittedly, the hands sit lower on the 2409 versus the movements with date mechanism so there is not much space to lift the dial before it touches the hands. You must ensure that you install the hands only enough to make them tight - do not seat them too low. This will give you a small amount of extra space to move the dial up.

If necessary, you could either:

1. purchase the new 2409 that has the plate that substitutes for the date mechanism plate

-- the dial and hands sit higher on this model; the same as the models with date mechanism. This new model 2409 has the longer Hour Wheel, Cannon Pinion, and Fourth Wheel / Seconds Hand Pinion as those installed on the models with date mechanism

2. purchase separately or scavenge these parts from a 2414/2416 (Date mechanism models): 
Hour Wheel, Cannon Pinion, Fourth Wheel / Seconds Hand Pinion
- these are the parts that carry the hands

-- these parts are longer for the models with date mechanism. This extra length allows the hands and dial to sit higher and provide clearance for the date mechanism. With the longer parts and no date mechanism installed, you have a little more space to move the dial and hands up or down.

I prefer to always install the 2414.

I can choose to keep the date mechanism regardless of whether or not I install a dial with the date window. This allows the dial to install easily at the proper height and if I need some extra clearance between the hands and dial, I can remove the date mechanism and move the dial down slightly. More options.


----------



## VWatchie

Well, this is definitely OT, but since we're into Russian/Soviet watches at least there is some connection. On a more serious note I think it is well worth remembering that even in the very coldest days of the cold war, Reagan still remembered that the Russian people were human and not some evil out of space robotic monsters looking to overtake the world. Please enjoy!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

VWatchie said:


> .....in the very coldest days of the cold war, Reagan still remembered that the Russian people were human and not some evil out of space robotic monsters looking to overtake the world.....


Well said !!!

One of the main reasons for my own love of Russian watches is that I want to remember the hard working Russian people who produced the watches.

The vintage Soviet timepieces were produced by ordinary people living and working in difficult circumstances and attempting to make a better life for themselves. Long hours in the factories with many deprivations.

Some folks in the West, especially here in North America, think that buying a Russian watch is supporting a Communist country or helping our 'enemy'. Russia is now neither communist or our enemy. Each Russian watch represents hard work and sacrifice given by ordinary people.

It is a source of great concern to me that the Russian watch industry is now only a mere fraction of its former immensity and greatness.

I encourage everyone to consider collecting vintage Soviet watches to enjoy the unique designs, intelligent engineering and quality workmanship.

I also encourage everyone to purchase a _new_ Russian watch such as a Vostok.

We must help keep the factories open and keep the Russian people working. Unemployment is a problem in Russia today and we must play our small role as watch enthusiasts. We cannot allow to vanish completely that which was once one of the greatest watch making industries in world history.

Purchase a Russian watch and wear it with pride.

You will wear the history and hard work of the admirable Russian people.


----------



## Dave51

jimzilla said:


> I installed a 2409 movement into a 020 case and the movement sits low in the watch. I used the thin Meranom case back for installing manual wind movements into amphibia cases why is it sitting low?


Lots of people know lots more about this than I do. However, I might have a bit of information that may or may not have something to do with your issue. I was getting ready to make a purchase from Meranom including a 2409 movement. I put the reviews for the movement into Translate and learned that the 2409.01 is made for modern Amphibia cases. I don't know the difference between the 2409 and .01, but perhaps if you have a standard 2409 movement this would explain why it sits low. Perhaps the 2409.01 is the one with the plate that Matt_Bored_O has mentioned above.

2409.01 is out of stock right now. Meranom informed me that the factory is on vacation until September so there will be at least that much wait.


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## Matt_Bored_O

Dave51 said:


> ....the 2409.01 is made for modern Amphibia cases.


This is what I suspected. The 2409.01 is taller than the standard 2409 with the addition of the extra plate. This plate makes it the same height as the date mechanism models ( 2414 and 2416 ) to allow it to fit any modern Amphiba case.

The automatic 2415.01 and 2415.12 also have this plate to give them the extra height.

So: *All Vostok 24xx.01 and 24xx.12 movements will fit all modern Amphibia cases*.

For those who don't want the date mechanism, these new models are perfect. They will install easily.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Well said !!!
> 
> One of the main reasons for my own love of Russian watches is that I want to remember the hard working Russian people who produced the watches.
> 
> The vintage Soviet timepieces were produced by ordinary people living and working in difficult circumstances and attempting to make a better life for themselves. Long hours in the factories with many deprivations.
> 
> Some folks in the West, especially here in North America, think that buying a Russian watch is supporting a Communist country or helping our 'enemy'. Russia is now neither communist or our enemy. Each Russian watch represents hard work and sacrifice given by ordinary people.
> 
> It is a source of great concern to me that the Russian watch industry is now only a mere fraction of its former immensity and greatness.
> 
> I encourage everyone to consider collecting vintage Soviet watches to enjoy the unique designs, intelligent engineering and quality workmanship.
> 
> I also encourage everyone to purchase a _new_ Russian watch such as a Vostok.
> 
> We must help keep the factories open and keep the Russian people working. Unemployment is a problem in Russia today and we must play our small role as watch enthusiasts. We cannot allow to vanish completely that which was once one of the greatest watch making industries in world history.
> 
> Purchase a Russian watch and wear it with pride.
> 
> You will wear the history and hard work of the admirable Russian people.


I won't keep this OT going, but I just have to express how important, inspiring and well said I think that post was!

Спасибо, Мэтт!


----------



## Kotyal

Hi guys. I'm sorry, I'm late for the party! 

2 quick queries.


1. Would you fine gentlemen tell me what all amfibia cases fit 2416 movement, with date complication? (I don't mind losing the date, honestly, but preferably not)

2. What dials should I be looking for?

I'm tryna giving life to an old amfibia 160, so kindly help me

Thank you in advance 🙂


----------



## Dave51

Based on all of the great information in this thread, I have assembled or modified five Amphibia. Each time has gotten easier until the last two, which went super smoothly. The most recent, last night, was to swap a 2414A movement into a 110 case with a new dial, flat caseback, and nice hands from Favinov. I already had a Sale4U bezel on it with a red insert, so I thought all was ready to go. I wound it up and all seemed good. I woke up this morning to a watch that was not running. I gave it a shake, and it started up again. I have been wearing it all morning. It seems to stop randomly. This has happened probably 4-5 times this morning, between 6:30 - 10:00 a.m. 

The hands all operate freely (my best job yet on hand installation). They don't interfere with each other or run into an obstruction on the dial (657 - red/orange Scuba Dude, which covers the date wheel). I demagnetized the parts before the installation (for whatever that information is worth).

I have had great luck so far with my movements from Meranom. A couple needed regulation, but once done, they all run very accurately (I am not overly crazy about that - I set them on my cell phone time and they all gain very little over a few days).

It could be a bad movement, but perhaps someone has an idea? I could contact Meranom for a return, but it is a long wait for a replacement! I am not a watch repair guy. I feel comfortable regulating the watch, setting hands, putting everything in a case, etc. My one attempt at a repair failed and I have not had time to take another crack at it. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## BreaksThings

I have seen that before. I had an issue with a movement I swapped and for some reason the crown and stem that I was using on the previous movement didn't like the new movement. I just couldn't get it to set right. It took a couple times and finally it got in the right spot but it was finicky. Once I did get it set correctly the watch ran fine. It would periodically stop but much less often so I eventually just swapped a different crown and stem and that solved the problem

You might try winding up the watch and pulling out the stem and leaving the stem and crown out of the watch for a while and see if it will run itself out for the full 38 to 40 hours. at least that way you could isolate if it was a crown and stem issue versus something internal to the movement


----------



## Dave51

Thanks BreaksThings! I will take a look at it. I have some spare crown/stem combos that I swapped out for signed crowns, so I have a couple of crowns for 110 cases that I can try if the crown turns out to be the problem. I forgot to mention that the 2424A movement came without the movement holder screws. Luckily, I have a donor movement that I busted doing something stupid. Maybe this little movement did not get the attention it deserved!


----------



## BreaksThings

If the movement is mounted without screws, it can rotate slightly and put lateral pressure with can slow or stop the movement. Ask me how I know! I don't really know what is interfering, but I saw this happen in a couple of mine.


----------



## Dave51

No worries on that score. I pulled the mounting screws off of my donor movement and used them on the new one. I am going to open it up and loosen the screws and see if the movement is skewed slightly. Based on what you say, maybe loosening them and then re-tightening them will do the trick! I will try that before removing the stem. Thanks again!


----------



## BreaksThings

Sounds good. When the stem is finicky, I find that setting it with the movement screws loose, then tightening down the crown (making sure the movement is still running) and then centering the stem before fixing the movement in place, does the trick.

This is if course if the stem is the cause of the issue...

I tried to use a new stem one time and had this exact issue and went back to the original and all ran well...


----------



## Dave51

Thanks. I won't get to it tonight, but I will have time tomorrow. I will report back.


----------



## Dave51

BreaksThings said:


> Sounds good. When the stem is finicky, I find that setting it with the movement screws loose, then tightening down the crown (making sure the movement is still running) and then centering the stem before fixing the movement in place, does the trick.
> 
> This is if course if the stem is the cause of the issue...
> 
> I tried to use a new stem one time and had this exact issue and went back to the original and all ran well...


This morning, I opened the case, loosened the screws, and reset the orientation of the movement. I inserted the stem/crown and tightened it down, making sure that I heard the click. Then I secured the movement to the holder. Screwed the back on lightly and tried to wind and set the hands. It was not right. It was difficult to get the crown into winding position. It just kept moving the hands.

I opened everything up, removed the crown, and replaced it with a spare. Closed it up and everything works perfectly. The crown wound easily and it was no problem to set the time. The watch has been running for almost four hours and looks to be keeping good time so far.

BreaksThings, thanks for the assist. I really appreciate it (and all of the help I have received on this forum).


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## BreaksThings

Glad that worked out! Glad you didn't have to service the moment too!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

BreaksThings said:


> ....If the movement is mounted without screws, it can rotate slightly and put lateral pressure with can slow or stop the movement....


This is true.

The movement holder or holding ring, ( or 'movement fixing ring' as Meranom lists it ), usually is held captive and cannot move when the caseback is installed and tightened.

If the movement is not clamped onto the holder ring using the holder screws, the movement may be able to move slightly, especially if you bump the watch sharply.

If the edge of the dial is tight against the crystal tension ring after installing eveything, this may help to hold the movement and prevent it turning laterally. However, dials are not always tight against the tensioin ring. This is not a problem if the movement is screwed to the movement holder. The movement holding ring should be the main method to keep the movement secure, not the dial. Of course, it is best to install the dial onto the movement properly and level so that the dial touches the tension ring and does not leave a gap.

The famous Vostok loose crown stem system allows the stem to remain loose when the crown is screwed onto the case. If the movement is not screwed onto its holder ring, the movement is then free to move slightly in the case. Most other watches don't have a loose stem system and the stem is attached rigidly to the crown. When these crowns are screwed onto the case, the stem is held rigidly within the movement and helps to hold the movement, preventing it from moving within the case. So, Vostok Amphibia and Komanirskies need the movement itself to be held tight within the case because they cannot rely on the stem to help hold them.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Matt_Bored_O said:


> The movement holder or holding ring,.... usually is held captive and cannot move when the caseback is installed and tightened.
> 
> If the movement is not clamped onto the holder ring using the holder screws, the movement may be able to move slightly, especially if you bump the watch sharply.


I was thinking more about this.

We know that there are variances in tolerances and machining of Vostok parts and this includes the cases and movement holders.

I have noticed that when the caseback is installed and tightened, the movement and its holder are _not_ always held tight and may move or shift slightly, especially if the watch is bumped or shaken.

This appears most when the dial is not snug against the crystal tension ring.

*The Mysterious 'Stopping' Problem*:

We know that a problem in the 'Reversing Wheels' causes the stopping problem for some owners. Usually the clutch system within the wheels is the culprit as the clutches may become permanently locked.

However, sometimes the cause cannot be found and this is frustrating for the owner. Perhaps the problem is shifting of a loose movement within the case.

It appears that sometimes if the stem shifts slightly within the movement, it disrupts the 'keyless works' mechanism and may cause the movement to stop, either momentarily or completely.

Because the stem is loosely attached to the crown, and because the movement may shift laterally or rotate slightly when the watch is worn, this could cause the stem to shift slightly within the keyless works.

*
The Rotor Shifting the Movement?*

I wonder if the swinging of the rotor, due to its unbalance of weight, causes a loose movement to shift or rotate slightly? If the entire movement assembly is not tight within the case, it is very likely that the weight of the rotor, when it swings, could pull on the movement and shift it. This could then cause the stem to become misaligned within the keyless works.

Perhaps sometimes this is the cause of the 'stopping' problem of the 24xx automatics that some Amphibia owners experience?

However, as BreaksThings said, the manual winding 24xx models may also stop when the movement shifts or the stem is not aligned. It must be remembered that this appears to be much more rare than the stopping problem of the automatics.

*Excessive Gap*

There is usually a very slight gap between the movement holder and the case.
Due to tolerance and machining variations, sometimes this gap is excessive and if the dial does not sit tight against the crystal tension ring, the entire dial and movement assembly will shift when wearing the watch. The movement holder is not always gripped when the caseback is installed.

Also, we know that some owners have reported that a movement will operate perfectly until the moment the caseback is installed. The movement then stops immediately.

This suggests that perhaps the problem is caused by the movement shifting when the caseback is installed. This could be a sign that there is an excessive gap between the movement holder and the case.

There is nearly always a visible gap, it is only a question of whether or not it is excessive and if it will cause a problem.

We are all familiar with the common problem of the stem not always engaging fully when installing it. Some owners prefer to solve this by pushing the opposite side of the movement towards the stem to push it deeper into the movement so it will engage fully and make the familiar 'click' when it locks into place in the keyless works. It is clear here that there is an excessive gap between movement and case if the stem is able to push the movement so far that it cannot be fully inserted.

*
Movement Holder: Plastic vs. Steel*

Both the plastic _and_ steel movement holders appear to be equally affected.

*Possible Cures:*

The movement MUST be prevented from shifting inside the case.

*Thin Plastic Strips*:

Add thin strips of plastic around the perimeter of the movement holder to fill the gap between the holder and the case. This helps to prevent shifting of the movement.

- plastic packaging of products is often thin, flexible and strong
- there are different thicknesses available
- layer them if necessary for large gaps
- cut them as wide as the height of the movement holder ring: the strips MUST NOT sit higher than the ring because they could interfere with the caseback gasket or prevent the gasket from gripping the holder 
- it is best to cut the strips long enough to wrap around the entire circumference of the movement holder but leave a gap for the stem
-- if the strips are short and only positioned in one place, they could shift around allowing the movement to shift
- after you drop the entire movement assembly into the case, carefully insert the strips into the gap using tweezers
- add as many strips as necessary or the thickest strips that will fit

Remember: the movement assembly must be _tight_ within the case

*Tape?*

Tape strips can be applied around the circumference of the holder ring. 
However, this is Not recommended. It is more convenient than plastic strips because the tape remains in place when you drop the movement and holder into the case and it won't move around like plastic strips. The problem is that tape can deteriorate with age and become loose. Plastic is more stable and rigid and less likely to disintegrate and become dislodged.

*Dial MUST Be Tight Against Crystal Tension Ring*

The Vostok factory usually installs the dials correctly and the dial sits properly against the tension ring. However, sometimes there are slight gaps either around the entire dial or just a few gaps in several places. Perhaps a dial has minor warping around its edge or perhaps the tension ring has minor variances. Also, the dial may not be level - perhaps it was installed at a slight angle.

If there is a visible gap and the dial / entire movement assembly appears to shift slightly if you bump the watch, you should adjust the dial. You may have to loosen it and pull it up a very small amount or level it.

- the dial should be installed on the movement so that it is level and close enough to the movement so that it sufficiently contacts the dial washer
- there must be sufficient space for the hands so that the Hour Hand does not rub on the dial
- the dial must touch the crystal tension ring and must push against it with enough pressure that when the caseback is installed, the dial helps to hold the entire movement assembly
-- don't worry about damage to the very outer edge of the dial that touches the tension ring: this edge is not visible and this is how dials are meant to be installed


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

..
*Parts for Vostok 24xx Movements*

I must add more info. to post #207:

see my original post in this thread #207:

--- A Guide: Buying / Modifying / Repairing VOSTOK...

---------------------------------------------------

*How To Order Movement Parts from Meranom:*

*24xx Movement Parts:*

Meranom is willing to supply most of the parts for the 24xx movements. They have access to parts that other sellers may not have. Only a few of the available parts are listed on the Meranom web store but many more are available

-- *you must request these parts !!* --

There is NO Guarantee that every part is for sale or in stock

------------------------

*First Step: *

See the Schematics at the bottom of this post

*Identify the PART NUMBERS in the Schematics*

- these are the numbers you _must_ give Meranom to request parts

The Part Number ( PN ) for each part shown on the schematics is_ the number inside the brackets of the second line _

PN (Part Number) = ЧН

ЧН = the Russian equivalent of PN
------------------------

*Example:*

'Date Change Spring'










*Date Change Spring:*
The Part Number (PN) is: чн-513м-8а 

--------------------------------------------------

*How To Order:*

1. go to the Meranom website / create an account

2. *send a message:*

- include *Part Numbers* *(ЧН)* for all parts
-- use Russian Cyrillic - _exactly_ as it appears on the schematic
(use a virtual Russian keyboard )

- state the *quantity required* of each part
( you may use your native language but make it simple )

** a description of the part is not sufficient and is often confusing

*Meranom only accepts the Part Numbers as shown on the schematics* - no description is necessary

- use only the Part Numbers ( ЧН )

- use a virtual Russian keyboard to type the Cyrillic letters

--- here is a good *Russian Cyrillic keyboard:*

https://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/russian.htm

-----------------

*Sample Message:*

"_ I would like to order these parts please..._ "

чн-513м-8а
-_ 2 pieces required_

чн-513м-20a
- _3 pieces required _

-----------------

Meranom will contact you with prices and availability of each part

*Remember:*

There is NO Guarantee that every part is for sale or in stock

--------------------------------------------------

*Parts For Other 24xx Movements:*

The schematics available are of the Vostok 2416 automatic only.

If you require parts for other models: 2409, 2414, 2415 etc., Meranom may be able to supply them for you.

*Send a message:*

- use the 2416 Part Number

- ask for the equivalent part for your model

- be precise

----------

*Sample Message:*

"_ I would like to order these parts please..._ "

 чн-513м-20a

_- 2 pieces required
I need this part or the equivalent part for model 2409A _" 

-------------------------

*Part Interchangeability:*

many of the 2416 parts are interchangeable with other 24xx models

- ask this forum if unsure
- Meranom will advise you of part interchangeabilty

* There is no guarantee that parts for other models are available.
Don't be afraid to ask - they will do their best to help you

---------------------------------------------------

We hope Meranom soon will provide schematics for the other 24xx movements. Until then, use the 2416 schematics provided.

*2416b Schematics:*

These schematics are also available from Meranom:

Часы Восток Механизм 2416B


----------



## Dave51

"Both the plastic and steel movement holders appear to be equally affected."

Matt, I wonder if this is true when using a steel movement holder from an alternate source. Has anyone tried the movement holders from Dr.Seikostain or bankukh that are sold on eBay? Perhaps they are made to tighter tolerances. They are available for around US$12. Might be worth trying out.

Or, perhaps the extra weight of a metal movement in a case that allows it to move around would be worse . . . . (Or is that something I just made up?)


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Dave51 said:


> "Both the plastic and steel movement holders appear to be equally affected."
> 
> Matt, I wonder if this is true when using a steel movement holder from an alternate source. Has anyone tried the movement holders from Dr.Seikostain or bankukh that are sold on eBay?
> 
> Or, perhaps the extra weight of a metal movement [holder] in a case that allows it to move around would be worse . . . ...


Hi Dave,

Excellent questions.

I have installed steel movement holders from dr.seikostain and also genuine Vostok.

Yes, the size of the dr.seikostain are generally more consistent. All his products are of high quality and good tolerances.

However, there are 3 basic factors affecting the tightness of fit:

1. the size and roundness of the holder ring
2. the dimensions and shape of the case cavity 
3. the need for slight looseness of the fit of the movement assembly within the case cavity. This is necessary so that factory assembly is quick and easy with no modifications required such as grinding the holder to make it fit in the case. Also, the effects of heat and cold causing expansion and contraction of the case must be anticipated, so a very slight gap is required. Also, there must be no excessive pressure or stress placed on the movement or it may warp slightly or put a gear out of alignment etc. 
-- All these reasons of #3 for a very slight loose fit of the movement assembly in the case is common to all watches. The problem is that Vostoks may have an excessive gap.

So, if: 1. the holder ring is made to high tolerances, it will usually fit slightly tighter in the case but if: 2. the case cavity is out of round or too large, there may be an excessive gap.

It must be remembered that a loose movement is only really a problem for a Vostok primarily, I believe, because of the loose stem and crown system. The Vostok stem is able to move much more than the stems of most other designs and does not provide some of the needed rigidity to help prevent lateral shifting or rotating of the movement.

So, yes, higher quality parts will fit better, whether it is hands, a dial or a movement holder. There are other factors that may cause an excessive gap, but a tighter fitting holder may not require any shims to fill the gap if the gap is not excessive - there will always be a slight gap, it is nearly unavoidable, but it may not always be excessive enough to cause a problem. This is obvious by the high number of Vostok owners who do not appear to have a problem.

As to your second thought about the added weight of a steel holder ring possibly causing a problem: Yes, I think that there is a slight addition of weight but I don't think this causes excessive shifting of a Vostok movement. I think that if there is an excessive gap between holder and case, the movement assembly will move excessively regardless of whether or not the holder is plastic or steel. I remain convinced that the swinging of the rotor may cause the movement to rotate, if the movement assembly is excessively loose. That is what I believe the main problem is: _rotation_ of the movement / holder assembly and not simply shifting side to side.

I now think that it should be standard practice for a Vostok owner to ensure that the gap between case and movement holder is filled with a shim. Many owners don't appear to have a problem caused by excessive looseness, but any visible gap is unnecessary. If a shim of very thin plastic will fit, add it. It is cheap insurance and a quick and easy task. Obviously, if you must use great force to install the movement assembly into the case because you have installed shims, then it is too tight. This can cause problems also.

Fortunately, this whole issue of loose fit is normally minor, does not cause a problem for most owners and is easily fixed.


----------



## kiwi.bloke

Is there a 'clean' replacement bezel available for the Vostok 119 'tonneau' case? This is the earlier one before the 090 I believe... from my very limited newby Russian watch knowledge.


----------



## Dave51

Thank you Matt. That was very helpful.


----------



## Dodgydruid

Thank you for an informative and in depth guide to owning one. I bought my first Amphibia from a ebay seller called sergimyrsky_0 and I was in trepidation whether this thing would turn up a pile of poo or actually a good goer and very pleased it is the latter the only thing wrong being a bit of a scratched glass and the bezel seems to be stuck in one place with the luminous pip at the six o'clock position. Dunno why but I am just absolutely pleased as heck with the thing, have kept the original steel bracelet on as it doesn't look bad, I bought some ex Soviet watchbands from a chap in the Ukraine but have decided to keep this one original. I paid £17 with postage which is incredible value for a decent winder albeit this is my first proper winding watch I have had since I was a kid with the ubiquitous Timex and Sekonda's as a young lad, serial number is 235 155 with black hands the hour has a triangle pointer and the second hand is red with a small ball towards the end. This isn't my actual "first" as I bought a while back a very old late 40's early fifties Vostok with the second hand at the six o'clock position, the top balance staff pivot is broken but the rest of it works exceptionally well so will one day replace the balance.

I was well caught out with the wobbly crown thing, I even emailed the seller saying "omg its broken, I must have broken it arrgh" and then realised it was winding if I just pulled it back gently. So watch out Amphibia sellers I have def got the bug and it does go well with all my other Soviet stuff being a bit daft about them times hehe


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Dodgydruid said:


> .....the only thing wrong being a bit of a scratched glass and the bezel seems to be stuck in one place with the luminous pip at the six o'clock position.
> 
> .... serial number is 235 155 ....
> 
> I was well caught out with the wobbly crown thing....
> 
> So watch out Amphibia sellers I have def got the bug and it does go well with all my other Soviet stuff being a bit daft about them times hehe


Dodgy Druid, good to hear you're enjoying the Vostoks.

Please post a photo in the thread '_Show Your Amphibias_'

I am not familiar with the number 235 155

The bezel retaining wire, made of brass, may be corroded or there may be debris or mineral deposits causing the bezel to seize. Soak the watch in warm water for an hour. If this doesn't loosen it, soak it in vinegar or spray some WD-40 or similar. Ensure the crown and caseback are tightened before exposing it to water.

I assume this is a used Amphibia, and if so, it is very important to tighten the caseback a little more because they will become slightly loose with age. Buy a caseback wrench.

If it is more than 4 or 5 years old, the gaskets should be replaced. Add a little silicon grease to the gaskets. They usually last quite a few years but a used watch has an unknown history and may have been abused or neglected.

Yes, the famous Vostok 'wobbly crown' is strange indeed. It confuses many first time owners. It is a simple yet intelligent piece of engineering.

Enjoy, and welcome to the club.


----------



## Dodgydruid

Have put my pics up on this thread as the older ones were locked (https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/show-your-amphibias-part-2-a-4514713-69.html#post49724431)

The seller said he had serviced it prior to dispatch, and it does seem to keep good time, hasn't lost a second yet since this morning so that is good enuff for me, I don't have a watch listener device but will do the 1 day, 7 day, 1 month checklist to see how much loss there is.

I am not sure if its an automatic or a standard winder, I do have a cheapo case opener but don't want to open til I got some spare gaskets as no doubt the crown one is oft overlooked, glass is in def need of a polish up but for 17 pounds delivered for something a little different


----------



## Stan71

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Hi Guys.

I will start with. I am not a watch repairer. I basically only know what I read on here, and a couple of Video's of taking the movement apart. Which I don't think I could do, without messing everything up. Badly.

I was hoping that one or other of the kind people on this forum, might be able to point me in the right direction of the problem.

I own 4 Amphibia's, and 1 Komandirskie. Which I think are all awesome.

Recently one of the Amphibia's has started stopping. It has a 2416b movement in a 100 case. 
I have had this watch for well over a year now and it has been fine, but it's now started stopping between 2230/2350Hrs. It's on a watch winder when I am not wearing it, and it stops in both configurations. But starts again with a gentle lateral shake.
It was fine until recently, now most nights it stops between the times I posted.

I have had the back off, and all looks fine. As I was wondering if it could be something connected with the date change. Which on all of my watches is approx at 2356/2358Hrs.

The rotor swings easily, but if you move the watch slowly it stops in one direction but not the other.

Taking the back off, is all I have ever done. I don't have the knowledge to do much more. Oh I have replaced a rotor on one of the other Amphibia's, as it decided to loose it's bearing into the watch case. I did find them all, and that watch is now fine again.

I'm sorry if this is to long winded, or on the wrong post. But the post title looked right to me.

Best Regards

Stan


----------



## Dodgydruid

Its interesting in that the first week of my non automatic Amphibia, during the night it stopped for an hour then restarted itself, it hasn't done this since but it prompted me to take it to the local jewellers who gave it a good look and put on a timegrapher etc and said it was functioning AOK and had been serviced recently, he tweaked the accuracy a touch so its as good as its going to get without new parts and it does keep very good time.

One thing I have noticed and it scared the bejasus out of me was the crown stem seemed reluctant to disengage from the time setting it entered into when I was gently pulling the winder out to wind the spring, I am uber gentle with the whole thing but it just wouldn't click back into the free/winder mode and mean't the main hands were stuck, gentle manipulation did free it up and it hasn't done it since but I am even more gentle with it because of that.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Stan71 said:


> Recently one of the Amphibia's has started stopping......
> ...stopping between 2230 / 2350 Hrs....
> 
> ....could be something connected with the date change.
> 
> The rotor swings easily, but if you move the watch slowly it stops in one direction but not the other.
> 
> Stan


Hi Stan,

1. yes, the date change mechanism may be a part of the problem. There is extra load or tension put on the movement just before it changes the date. If there is another problem somewhere else such as a wheel with excessive play or the mainspring is not winding properly and is therefore only minimally wound, then the load applied by the date change could cause the movement to stop.

2. *rotor stops in one direction:* I suspect that one of the Reversing Wheels is not disengaging or unlocking. Each wheel has an internal clutch which locks momentarily when the rotor swings. One wheel will lock in one direction and the other will lock in the opposite direction. When the clutch locks, a small gear underneath the Reversing Wheel is engaged and tranfers the momentum of the rotor to wind the Mainspring. Then, if the rotor swings in the other direction, this clutch will disengage and the other Reversing Wheel clutch will then engage. It is not uncommon for one of the Reversing Wheel clutches to fail to unlock. Sometimes this will only occur momentarily, other times it may become permanently locked. When a clutch does not unlock, it will prevent the rotor swinging in one direction.

You say the 'rotor swings easily' unless the watch is moved slowly, then the rotor stops in one direction:
- therefore, I assume it swings freely if the watch is moved with more force.

Again, this seems to suggest that a clutch is locking and not unlocking when it is supposed to unlock.

If a Reversing Wheel has a failing clutch, it is possible that it will unlock properly only with greater force. The problem may worsen and the clutch could become permanently locked.

So, *the date change and the rotor problem may be linked*:

1. the rotor is not winding the mainspring properly because one of the Reversing Wheel clutches is failing
2. the mainspring is possibly then only wound minimally
3. there may then not be enough power in the mainspring to overcome the load of the date change mechanism
4. the movement will then stop before the date changes

*Test:*

1. set the time to 2200hrs

2. fully wind the movement manually. 50 or so half-turns in a back and forth ratcheting motion should fully wind the mainspring
- remember: the mainspring of the automatic is designed to slip when it is fully wound so you will feel only a very small amount of tension, if at all, when it is fully wound. Also, the crown will not stop, unlike the manual wind movements.

3. if the date changes normally and the movement does not stop, then most likely the rotor is not properly winding the mainspring

If so:

1. replace the Reversing Wheels with those of one of your other watches
*the wheels are identical and can be interchanged freely. They are not Left or Right - they are the same

2. ensure the rotor swings freely in both directions

3. put the watch on an automatic winder or wear it all day, preferably at least 12 hours before the date change to allow the mainspring to wind fully or at least half.

If the problem disappears, a Reversing Wheel has probably failed and must be replaced

Replacements are available from Meranom, favinov (ebay) and perhaps a few others

------------------------------------------------

*Lubricate the Reversing Wheels?*

Some owners have lubricated the Reversing Wheels with a light watch oil
- ex. Moebius 9010 or its equivalent - perhaps diluted with naptha

- this may or may not solve the problem or it may only delay the complete failure of the clutch mechanism

see this:

Cleaning and lubricating reversing wheels

Be advised that other manufacturers, ETA of Switzerland for example, use and recommend Epilame for the Reversing Wheels.
This is an expensive chemical that prevents oil spreading on a part.
Most manufacturers recommend replacing the wheels as they are lubricated properly at the factory.

Vostok does not lubricate the Reversing Wheels. They do not recommend lubrication.

*It is recommended to replace the Reversing Wheels and not lubricate them*

- but if you have the skills, tools and knowledge, there is little harm in lubricating the wheels
-- the worst scenario is that the oil does not solve the problem and you must replace the wheel

-------------------------------------------------

*How To: Replace Reversing Wheels*

It is a simple repair that a novice can do easily


remove the rotor
remove the tiny Retainer screw and the brass Retainer
replace the wheels
The wheels sit on brass posts and only the Retainer holds them in place

*_ be gentle when handling the wheels with tweezers:_
-- do not damage the teeth
-- do not press or squeeze down on the silver covers on top of the wheels. The tiny clutch bearings are underneath

***the wheels are identical and can be interchanged freely
-- they are not Left or Right -_ they are the same_

*helpful info. here:*

Vostok reversing wheels: Easy to break?

* *remember:*

for all repairs: good quality screwdrivers and tweezers are very important
use magnification
cleanliness is important !!
-- don't let dust, hair or any parts or debris fall into the mechanism: use a watch repair dust blower bulb

--------------------------------------------------

*Buy the Parts: Wheels / Retainer / Screw

Meranom*

sells all the parts (but are not always in stock)
send Meranom a message and ask for these parts if they are not in stock
*Meranom uses these names:

_Reverse Lock_ = retainer
_Reverse Lock Screw_ = retainer screw

*favinov*: ebay (Russia)

sells the Reversing Wheels
if you need the retainer or the screw: ask him and he may have them
other sellers:

- *ebay and etsy*: there are sellers with various parts for Vostok
-- used / non-functioning movements are often a good source of parts but used Vostok automatics may have broken Reversing Wheels.
--- be aware: certain used parts have a higher failure rate, such as balances and reversing wheels: it is always best to buy _new _movements

-------------------------------------------------

*More Information: Vostok Reversing Wheels*

--- A Guide: Buying / Modifying / Repairing VOSTOK...
- see post #86

Vostok reversing wheels: Easy to break?

How does a vostok 2416b overwinding clutch works?

*video:*

- at 3:40




.


----------



## mariomart

kiwi.bloke said:


> Is there a 'clean' replacement bezel available for the Vostok 119 'tonneau' case? This is the earlier one before the 090 I believe... from my very limited newby Russian watch knowledge.


Hey kiwi.bloke :-!

Thought this might help. The clean bezel that fits the 119 case without fouling the crown is sold by Meranom.com as "Clean Bezel 01k2" , here is the link https://meranom.com/amphibian-classic/spare-parts/bezels/vostok-watch-clean-bezel-01k2.html

Here is a picture of this bezel fitted to one of my own 119 modded watches, along with a comparison picture of what was previously fitted. Hope it helps


----------



## kiwi.bloke

mariomart said:


> Hey kiwi.bloke :-!
> 
> Thought this might help. The clean bezel that fits the 119 case without fouling the crown is sold by Meranom.com as "Clean Bezel 01k2" , here is the link https://meranom.com/amphibian-classic/spare-parts/bezels/vostok-watch-clean-bezel-01k2.html
> 
> Here is a picture of this bezel fitted to one of my own 119 modded watches, along with a comparison picture of what was previously fitted. Hope it helps
> 
> View attachment 14449375


Awesome. Just the info I was seeking, and great looking watch to use as an example!


----------



## kiwi.bloke

mariomart said:


> Hey kiwi.bloke :-!
> 
> Thought this might help. The clean bezel that fits the 119 case without fouling the crown is sold by Meranom.com as "Clean Bezel 01k2" , here is the link https://meranom.com/amphibian-classic/spare-parts/bezels/vostok-watch-clean-bezel-01k2.html
> 
> Here is a picture of this bezel fitted to one of my own 119 modded watches, along with a comparison picture of what was previously fitted. Hope it helps
> 
> View attachment 14449375


Awesome. Just the info I was seeking, and great looking watch to use as an example!


----------



## schumacher62

thank you for the exceptional and comprehensive guide! looking forward to adding more russian made watches to my collection soon- 3 is not enough! thanks again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cybernaut1

Matt. Just wanted to thank you for going through all the trouble to put this guide together. Very very informative. Awesome!


----------



## Kamburov

As kindly requested by Matt, I post some photos of a crown replacement on 2209 amfibia stem. Sorry for the bad pics and the bad state of the parts, but it just an impulsive experiment.
I had a 2209 crown with a flattened thread, and a 2409 crown with a broken stem. 
The amfibia crowns have a protective cap, that can be removed. It's like opening a tin can. After the edges are bent open, it can be pulled off. Not easy, as it fits perfectly and there's a lot of traction. Also I had to do it gently, as the cap is quite soft and can be damaged easily.















The crown itself is solid, and the only way to get the stem out is by drilling a hole at the back. So it has to be damaged in the process, sorry.















It's an easy swap through the hole. The end of an amfibia stem has a stop and 1-2mm of pentagon profile. The pentagon is the gear that clicks in when you pull the crown. The system is identical on 2209 and 2409. 
After the stem is inserted, there is gaping hole in the back. The problem is, this is also the spot that the stem hits when we push the crown in. At first I sealed it with the head of a small screw that I cut off the sticking out threaded part. I lost it, so it's not on the photos. I chose a screw which has a head that will fit perfectly in the round hole. It can be soldered, if you have the right equipment. I don't. 
Before returning the cap, it has to be reinforced. It's made of quite soft metal, and the stem end applies force in a very small spot (the screw head, if it's there). So I cut a small round sheet of hard steel, to cover the bottom of the cap. Used a battery spring of a junk quartz watch. The sheet distributes the force of the stem on the whole surface of the cap.
Then the cap is put back on and the edges bent back arround the crown. Also glue can be applied, to prevent it from sliding off from the pressure of the stem.






















Not a very good job of mine, but you get an idea of the amfibia crown's construction. To be honest, I don't think this is worth the effort, I'd rather wait for a good 2209 crown, but it was an interesting exercise nevertheless. Not easy but doable, though, with the right instruments and the right attitude  
My 2209 stem had a damaged pentagon, if it didn't it would have been a success.
Ivan


----------



## jimzilla

I would like to know what the two levers are called that adjust the timing of the watch?
The one that moves in between + / - and the other one you are not supposed to touch?
Thanks in advance guy's.


----------



## jimzilla

I would like to know what the two levers are called that adjust the timing of the watch?
The one that moves in between + / - and the other one you are not supposed to touch?
Thanks in advance guy's.


----------



## mariomart

jimzilla said:


> I would like to know what the two levers are called that adjust the timing of the watch?
> The one that moves in between + / - and the other one you are not supposed to touch?
> Thanks in advance guy's.


https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/what-two-levers-regulation-device-amphibia-movement-1091969.html

The lever to adjust the time is often referred to as the Regulator Lever, the other lever adjusts the beat error (isochronism). As long as you have a Timegrapher there is no reason not to adjust the beat error.


----------



## Dodgydruid

The +/- is the means to finely adjust the timekeeping of your watch, say for instance it develops a decided slowness, this could be evened out by moving gently a little bit to the plus that makes it go just a little faster than it was. The opposite is where you notice your watch at the end of the day is a touch fast, you could gently nudge it a tiny bit to the minus and it will slow it a fraction.

The other is the hairspring cock if my terminology is right? That increases or decreases the hairspring tension strength quite a lot more and you move this to correct beat error which is the discordance between the forward and reverse cycles of the balance wheel, if the hairspring is incorrectly tensioned it will pull one way more than the other thus you get beat error and rough timekeeping. Mark Lovick did a video on this actual thing on youtube and it did stop me dead in reaching for the pokey thing to try making it move hehe Sometimes the right kind of jarring knock could get it to move if you are unlucky but these Russian watches are built like Lada's and tough to kill. The way to use this is with a listening device that can diagnose those ticks and tocks into something tangible, a timegrapher is an expensive tool but extremely precise and makes regulating a watch a doddle, I can't afford one and am building one out of an old microphone and a mic amp card I got off ebay, it won't ever be as good as a timegrapher but good enuff for my little collection.


----------



## Dodgydruid

The +/- is the means to finely adjust the timekeeping of your watch, say for instance it develops a decided slowness, this could be evened out by moving gently a little bit to the plus that makes it go just a little faster than it was. The opposite is where you notice your watch at the end of the day is a touch fast, you could gently nudge it a tiny bit to the minus and it will slow it a fraction.

The other is the hairspring cock if my terminology is right? That increases or decreases the hairspring tension strength quite a lot more and you move this to correct beat error which is the discordance between the forward and reverse cycles of the balance wheel, if the hairspring is incorrectly tensioned it will pull one way more than the other thus you get beat error and rough timekeeping. Mark Lovick did a video on this actual thing on youtube and it did stop me dead in reaching for the pokey thing to try making it move hehe Sometimes the right kind of jarring knock could get it to move if you are unlucky but these Russian watches are built like Lada's and tough to kill. The way to use this is with a listening device that can diagnose those ticks and tocks into something tangible, a timegrapher is an expensive tool but extremely precise and makes regulating a watch a doddle, I can't afford one and am building one out of an old microphone and a mic amp card I got off ebay, it won't ever be as good as a timegrapher but good enuff for my little collection.


----------



## jimzilla

Question....... Will a 2214 movement fit into a 2414 Komanderskie case and accept the 2414 winding assembly? thank you in advance.


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## EndeavourDK

double post ......


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## EndeavourDK

jimzilla said:


> Question....... Will a 2214 movement fit into a 2414 Komanderskie case and accept the 2414 winding assembly? thank you in advance.


I'm aware of that a 2209 / 2214 will fit an Amphibian case provided you have the special spacer-ring and the special long (harder to get) 22xx winding stem with Amphibian crown. I'm not aware of a 22xx spacer-ring for a Komandirskie case, but that is by no means to say they don't exist.
Unclear to me is what is meant by 2414 "winding assembly"? If you mean the 2414 main spring-barrel, than the answer is no. The diameter of a 22xx barrel is 9.8mm and the barrel of a 24xx is 10.4mm. If you mean something else with "Winding assembly", you have to be more specific ...... :think:

Hope that helps ......

To aid communication it is of great benefit to learn the names of all watch parts. Sadly the names are not universal and some people may use different names for the same part(s), but it's a start and internet will provide you with with many more (and perhaps much better) pictures than the three I quickly picked off the net ;-)

Edit; here is another interesting pdf: http://people.timezone.com/mdisher/WatchSchool/pdfs/TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf


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## EndeavourDK

Posted in the wrong thread ..... :-s


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> ....... *Will a 2214 movement* fit into a 2414 Komanderskie case and *accept the 2414 winding assembly?* ......


.

1. As Endeavour correctly said, 2209 and 2214 manual movements will fit into modern 2414 Komandirskie cases with correct movement spacer / holder ring.

-- the stem of the 22xx will not fit the 24xx, as you already know.

2. I see that your goal is to have a 24xx stem with the modern Komandirskie crown but installed in a 22xx movement.
- this is understandable as it is difficult to find the correct stem with correct crown in this situation.

NO, the 'winding assembly' is not completely compatible between 22xx and 24xx movements.

-- the common English term for this group of parts is: _'Keyless Works'_


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## jimzilla

I was hoping, thank you for the tech guy's.


----------



## Dave51

Hi everyone, 

I did a search, but could not find this problem. I hope I did not miss anything.

I have an Amphibia that I put together from parts purchased from Favinov, Dr. Seikostain, Arkustime, and Meranom. The crown is the original crown that came with the 100 case I purchased from Favinov. He brushed both the case and the crown beautifully. It is running a 2416B movement. It has run very well for months. 

The last couple of days, the movement stops if I tighten the crown all the way down. I have not run into this before. I realized what was happening a while ago, and did not tighten the crown all the way after setting the time. Any ideas what could be causing this? I usually tighten the crown down all the way to maintain water resistance. I know it may not be fully watertight as intended by the design after all my assembly work, but it has been fine for washing dishes, etc.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.


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## BreaksThings

Dave51 said:


> Hi everyone,
> The last couple of days, the movement stops if I tighten the crown all the way down. I have not run into this before. I realized what was happening a while ago, and did not tighten the crown all the way after setting the time. Any ideas what could be causing this? I usually tighten the crown down all the way to maintain water resistance. I know it may not be fully watertight as intended by the design after all my assembly work, but it has been fine for washing dishes, etc.
> Thanks.


I have to ask if you had recently removed and replaced the crown before this started happening. If not, then you may have never set the stem/crown correctly into the movement while first assembling the movement. Then when you pulled out the crown to set the time, you pulled the stem out just past the 'lock' on the keyless works to retain the stem.

You have to be sure that the stem is fully seated in the movement or you may see issues like the one you are experiencing. To set correctly, leave the keyless works in the time setting position (it can be done without this, but this makes it easier). push down on the stem retention pin and push the crown all the way in gently. You may need to turn the stem a little to make sure it seats correctly. You can also use a pair of tweezers to grab the stem where it goes through the movement holding ring and make sure it is all the way in. Before you close up the back, make sure the watch winds, sets and the crown screws all the way down before you close up the case back. This can sometimes be very easy, and sometimes it can take a few attempts to make sure it is all in place.

Hope that helps!


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## Dave51

Hi BreaksThings,

I will check to make sure, but I have not been inside this watch for a long time. It has always been pretty accurate. I did not have to regulate it. The crown has not been removed to my recollection. I had a different problem with another watch in the past. I learned the tweezers trick from forum members, so for this watch and others I now always use the tweezers to ensure the stem is properly installed. I listen for the click sound it makes when installed. And you are right. Once, I had to go through a couple of stems to get one that would properly engage. I am pretty sure that the one that would not work later popped right into a different movement with no problem!

Later today, I will open it up and give it a whirl. I hope this is the problem, because it is easily solved.

Thanks!


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## BreaksThings

Another thing to check is if the movement has rotated slightly. Side pressure on the stem can have the same symptoms... Check caseback tightness and movent ring bolts to make sure there is no play...


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## Dave51

Great! I had not thought of that. Thanks again.


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## Dodgydruid

I was thinking rotation perhaps from a sideway jolt or bump, one of my Kom's did this and I noted the dial was slightly off its mark and remedying this and its fine since and all it took was like a foot drop onto carpeted floor.


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## Dave51

BreaksThings said:


> Another thing to check is if the movement has rotated slightly. Side pressure on the stem can have the same symptoms... Check caseback tightness and movent ring bolts to make sure there is no play...


That was it!

I did not get a chance to look inside my Amphibia until yesterday. I went in, loosened the retainer screws that hold the movement to the holder ring and removed the stem. Then I reinserted the stem and tightened the screws. After closing it up I wound it and tightened the crown down as hard as I could. It is running fine this morning and on time, so problem solved.

Thanks guys.


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## LHD

Which of the vostok dive watches is the most mod-able? I'm looking to pick up a couple for christmas gifts and would like to get a handful of extra parts so the group of us can customize them together. 

Based on what I've read in this thread it might make more sense to ask if there are any models that are less mod-able that I should avoid? I'm already not looking at SE models at the moment. I'm excited to get started.


----------



## LHD

Which of the vostok dive watches is the most mod-able? I'm looking to pick up a couple for christmas gifts and would like to get a handful of extra parts so the group of us can customize them together. 

Based on what I've read in this thread it might make more sense to ask if there are any models that are less mod-able that I should avoid? I'm already not looking at SE models at the moment. I'm excited to get started.


----------



## BreaksThings

They are all really just variations on a theme. All modern vostok amphibias have a 24mm movement, similar dial feet, same dimension hands, and bezel mounting system.

Variations to take into account are case back depth for automatic versus manual wind, crown/stem length due to case dimensions (pretty much two options), and sometimes if a bezel will interfere with a crown.


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## LHD

BreaksThings said:


> They are all really just variations on a theme. All modern vostok amphibias have a 24mm movement, similar dial feet, same dimension hands, and bezel mounting system.
> 
> Variations to take into account are case back depth for automatic versus manual wind, crown/stem length due to case dimensions (pretty much two options), and sometimes if a bezel will interfere with a crown.


If you had to pick 3 model families (first three digits of model number) to start with, around the $100 mark, which would you pic?


----------



## LHD

BreaksThings said:


> They are all really just variations on a theme. All modern vostok amphibias have a 24mm movement, similar dial feet, same dimension hands, and bezel mounting system.
> 
> Variations to take into account are case back depth for automatic versus manual wind, crown/stem length due to case dimensions (pretty much two options), and sometimes if a bezel will interfere with a crown.


If you had to pick 3 model families (first three digits of model number) to start with, around the $100 mark, which would you pic?


----------



## BreaksThings

Now that is a taste question... if you are interested in swapping crowns, I would stick within the families of what cases work with the same crowns. the three groups are:

71, 42, 96 cases
06,12 cases
10, 11, 09 cases

I have a personal preference for the 420 case so I would only buy variants of the 710, 420, and 960 cases so that all of my crown/stems will interchange. If you have vintage watches, these crowns also work on the 270, 627 and possibly a few other rare cases.

I also prefer automatic movements since I tend to wear the same watch for weeks at a time without removal (I surf a lot so they are in and out of the water a lot, and also in the shower a lot to remove salt water). If you want to wear more than one in a week, I would look to ones without the date complication as those can be a pain to set if you are rotating watches often and don't use a winder.

You mentioned dive watches so I would stick with the classic amphibia range as they are all 200m rated, less than $100 a piece, and have a lot of modding options.


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## LHD

BreaksThings said:


> Now that is a taste question... if you are interested in swapping crowns, I would stick within the families of what cases work with the same crowns. the three groups are:
> 
> 71, 42, 96 cases
> 06,12 cases
> 10, 11, 09 cases
> 
> I have a personal preference for the 420 case so I would only buy variants of the 710, 420, and 960 cases so that all of my crown/stems will interchange.


Fantastic information. I'll do some shopping tonight. I appreciate the quick response too.


----------



## Dave51

In addition to the above, I like the 02 and 670 cases. The 670 is always available in a classic Amphibia. The 02 is currently available as a Komandirskie. Check out the Komanderskie 020716. It is really an Amphibia with Komanderskie clothing. It has a nice brushed case and looks good to my eye. I recently modded one by adding a sunburst dial from Favinov, new hands, a new bezel and insert, and a Meranom solid link bracelet and really like it a lot. I also like the 100 case a lot.

I should add that these use the longer stems.


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## BreaksThings

@LHD... Keep in mind an order from meranom can take a while... in fact any shipment from that part of the world to the US can take 3+ weeks. Not sure where you are, but just wanted to let you know!
Good luck! Ping me with any questions if you have more!


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## mrwomble

You've been given some great advice there LHD but I'd add that the choice of case is a very personal thing and everyone will have a different opinion. My favourites would be the 020 or the 710 depending if you want to go for a classic or retro look.


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## Dave-WF

This may sound newbish question, but does every dial from amfibia work on every komandirskie? What interests me the most is if the date window will be correct everytime, no matter which dial i choose? 

Sent from my calculator using Tapatalk


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## Dodgydruid

Dave-WF said:


> This may sound newbish question, but does every dial from amfibia work on every komandirskie? What interests me the most is if the date window will be correct everytime, no matter which dial i choose?
> 
> Sent from my calculator using Tapatalk


The six o clock date wheel is printed differently to the 3 o clock date wheel. I seem to suspect the 22 and 24 variants seem to be about right for each other, I tried fitting a 2409 Amphibia dial to my tonnaeu 2209 movement and it wasn't having it as the lugs were in a slightly different position. I think the 09 and 14 in the movements refer to with date and without date with the 14 seemingly applying to with date and the A and B refers to A non automatic and B automatic winding.

I was looking at putting a 2414A movement into my tonneau as the 2209 of it is in some need of dunno what but the second hand is very very erratic and it keeps very erratic time since I put new hands on it, if it was a 2414A I would have just adjusted the second hand spring arm as first port of call but the 2209 lacks this so my poor 090 Amph is not working, I ain't too fussed as it did cost me just £11 but I lack still the skill yet to rebuild the 2209 competently and now looking at either my standard Boctok or my Komandirskie Cadet for sacrificing a known good 2209 for my 090.


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## BreaksThings

If you take a mechanism number like 2416b you break it down by looking at the first two numbers, the second two numbers, and any trailing letters.

The first two numbers represent the size of the movement in millimeters. So a 2416b is a 24 mm and a 2209 is a 22 mm. 

The second two numbers denote what the mechanisms complications entail. An 09 is usually a no date manual wind, while a 14 is a manual wind with the date complication. Correspondingly the 15 is a no date automatic and the 16 is an automatic with the date complication.

Lastly you have any letters that follow the first four numbers. Essentially those letters mean generations and improvements. So a 2414 would be the first generation of that movement and a 2414A is the second generation with possibly a small modification.

To use our 2416 B as an example this would be a 24 mm movement with automatic winding and date complication and it would be the third generation of this movement type. I don't know what the difference is between all three generations are but I do know that one change was moving between steel rollers and actual rubies in the automatic winding mechanism. It's a reason that the original 2416 had a 21 jewel printed on the dial and later ones had 31 jewels (10 rubies for the winding reverse wheels).


----------



## jimzilla

Hello comrades, I was building a Vostok amphibian with a 2415B and I must have moved the beat error lever (isochronism lever) the watch is 2 1/2 hrs off a day. 
I messed with it and it did not change anything. Is there any tutorials on adjusting the isochronism lever on Vostok or Komanderskie I do have a time grapher? much thanks, James.


----------



## BreaksThings

Simple rule is to hook up the timegrapher and make sure you have the angle set to 42 degrees in the settings. adjust the beat error as close to 0 as possible. Then regulate the beat. you may need to readjust the beat error as adjusting the regulation can affect the beat.

hope that helps.


----------



## jimzilla

BreaksThings said:


> Simple rule is to hook up the timegrapher and make sure you have the angle set to 42 degrees in the settings. adjust the beat error as close to 0 as possible. Then regulate the beat. you may need to readjust the beat error as adjusting the regulation can affect the beat.
> 
> hope that helps.


That did,thank you for the tech. I must have moved the lever somehow when I was working on the watch. Best regards BreaksThings.


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## EndeavourDK

jimzilla said:


> Hello comrades, I was building a Vostok amphibian with a 2415B and I must have moved the beat error lever (isochronism lever) the watch is 2 1/2 hrs off a day.
> I messed with it and it did not change anything. Is there any tutorials on adjusting the isochronism lever on Vostok or Komanderskie I do have a time grapher? much thanks, James.


One can set the beat-error manually, the old way of doing things. To get a good view on the balance impulse-jewel it requires to remove the pallet-fork, wheel-train bridge and some of the wheels. You can than adjust the lever such that the impulse jewel is right in between the banking "pins". Much more work, not so easy and not so accurate.
A timegrapher makes things much, much more easy and much more precise .....

Handy to know is that a beat-error doesn't harm the watch, it only effects its running & timekeeping. With huge beat-error of say > 9 m/s that watch may refuse to run.
Knowing you at bit and with all respect, a timegrapher is the way to go ;-)

*Edit;* Did some thinking ...... 2-1/2 hours/day is a lot ! That's + or - 9.000 s/d off !!! To achieve 2-1/2 hours/day you must have moved the lever(s) substantially, not just a coincidental slight touch. I don't think that any watch regulator has a range of +/- 9.000 sec/day. Something else must be going on. Are you sure the hairspring isn't doing funny things? You didn't mention positive off or negative off. If positive, the hairspring coils must be together either due to dirt, oil or magnetism. If it is negative, the watch barely runs.

Also I while ago I read that you were oiling your winding stems; that's for sure asking for trouble.


----------



## bearwithwatch

I may need to open my Vostok SE 420B05S. It has 2431 movement (24 hr). 
Is there any idiot proof n00b friendly guide how to dismantle 2431 movement? The first page isn't updated for about 3 years, so if there's any guide written among 57 pages then maybe hard to find. 

Issues:
as soon as I screw down the crown, the watch stops after sometime. No, I don't do it extremely tight and/or with force. No such issues with my other Vostok/Komandirskie 24 hr watches.
Sometime it feels like second hand has micro stutters 

I'd like to open the watch and have a peek under the hood.

(sometimes I secretly wish to have 24hr Vostok/Komandirskie with quartz movement, preferably with precisionist movement)


----------



## Dodgydruid

bearwithwatch said:


> I may need to open my Vostok SE 420B05S. It has 2431 movement (24 hr).
> Is there any idiot proof n00b friendly guide how to dismantle 2431 movement? The first page isn't updated for about 3 years, so if there's any guide written among 57 pages then maybe hard to find.
> 
> Issues:
> as soon as I screw down the crown, the watch stops after sometime. No, I don't do it extremely tight and/or with force. No such issues with my other Vostok/Komandirskie 24 hr watches.
> Sometime it feels like second hand has micro stutters
> 
> I'd like to open the watch and have a peek under the hood.
> 
> (sometimes I secretly wish to have 24hr Vostok/Komandirskie with quartz movement, preferably with movement)


Knowing some of these movements, Vostok didn't move far with much of its movements as its a kinda "if it works don't fix it" outlook so I imagine the 2431 isn't going to be much different from its predecessors, maybe look to the 2416 is it auto for ideas on the automatic works but Vostok followed convention and I was quite surprised how disassembling one of my 1940's Boctok's how similar it is to a 2234 or 2209.

There is an American on youtube called Ratfacedgit or Ratfaced_git who has delved into quite a lot of Russian movements. I would also ask Vostok direct if you can contact them if they have a dealer's schematic or workbook you could download, I did this with one of my higher end Miyota powered watches and the chap there sent me a few pdf's on how to do just about everything on that watch so you could be lucky.

Whenever I get stuttering on my 2414 movements, I pull the little "elbow" off and give it just a little more pressure and the stutter goes.

It sounds like a recent watch, is it not covered still by warranty?

Vostok does do quartz ones, seen a few Cardi, Century Time with quartz suspecting the ubiquitous Miyota 2115 that seems to live in so many quartz pieces.


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## BreaksThings

Look back a few pages... There are some discussions on stem seating issues that stop the watch just as you describe. I was involved in the conversation if you want to search for my username to help filter the results.


----------



## bearwithwatch

Dodgydruid said:


> Knowing some of these movements, Vostok didn't move far with much of its movements as its a kinda "if it works don't fix it" outlook so I imagine the 2431 isn't going to be much different from its predecessors, maybe look to the 2416 is it auto for ideas on the automatic works but Vostok followed convention and I was quite surprised how disassembling one of my 1940's Boctok's how similar it is to a 2234 or 2209.
> 
> There is an American on youtube called Ratfacedgit or Ratfaced_git who has delved into quite a lot of Russian movements. I would also ask Vostok direct if you can contact them if they have a dealer's schematic or workbook you could download, I did this with one of my higher end Miyota powered watches and the chap there sent me a few pdf's on how to do just about everything on that watch so you could be lucky.
> 
> Whenever I get stuttering on my 2414 movements, I pull the little "elbow" off and give it just a little more pressure and the stutter goes.
> 
> It sounds like a recent watch, is it not covered still by warranty?
> 
> Vostok does do quartz ones, seen a few Cardi, Century Time with quartz suspecting the ubiquitous Miyota 2115 that seems to live in so many quartz pieces.





BreaksThings said:


> Look back a few pages... There are some discussions on stem seating issues that stop the watch just as you describe. I was involved in the conversation if you want to search for my username to help filter the results.


Thank you for your invaluable suggestions. Guess, this is going to be the assignment for this weekend.


----------



## bearwithwatch

doh! duplicate post.


----------



## Parkgate

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

All you need to know about BBI (Big Bezel and Insert) mods.

PART ONE

First acquire your Komandirskie.com bezel, like this.

















Remove the old insert, the easiest way is to remove the 'pip' and then with a scalpel extract the old insert:

















The bezel will be covered in old gum/glue..remove this with acetone/ thinners etc.

















Now we know the overall OD (41.6mm) but we can now measure the ID's....39.4mm dia outer and 32.3mm dia inner after the upstand.









At last the info you're looking for...those sizes probably mean nothing to you, BUT to save you scratching your head, its the same size as replacement Seiko Turtle SRP bezel inserts.. i.e 32.5 ID and 39.1 OD, so if you want a BBI flat insert that sits lower on the plexi dome with little work, try someone like Crystaltimes for Turtle SRP insert.


----------



## Parkgate

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

BBI PART TWO

If your planned BBI mod requires a domed ceramic (or domed anodized) bezel insert, heres the guide.

You WILL need a vernier caliper, a mini die grinder (I purchased mine from Lidl for about £15 a couple of years ago), small half round files for anodized inserts or diamond coated bits for ceramic inserts. This guide is for CERAMIC inserts, for anodized inserts use a file (but ensure not to drag a burr onto the seen face).

First select an insert, I found a few on ebay ranging from 39.7mm OD to 40mm OD. Ensure the insert you have selected DOES NOT have numerals/markers that go to the inner or outer edges as you will be grinding some material away with your diamond coated bits in the die grinder. So heres the one I've purchased for this mod, a ceramic 40mm OD SMP style insert.

















The ID (31.7mm) of this insert is to small to clear the upstand on the bezel, so first carefully grind of the central upstand/ spigot like this:

















Next, its time to grind the OD of the ceramic, do this in a garage, or outside and wear glasses/goggles and a mask if you have one...you DO NOT want to be breathing a mixture of rock hard ceramic and diamond dust especially in an enclosed space!

With a diamond bit in your die grinder, stick two three fingers through the inserts ID (with the seen face towards your arm, ie away from the die grinder) and whiz around the OD with your die grinder about twenty times. It doesn't take long (a couple of mins) and measure the OD, you will find you have only taken about 0.01mm off of the OD. This is because the glaze coat on the outside is extremely hard. So whiz around again (20 times), re-measure and your probably nearer to having taken 0.1mm off. Keep going, your target is just under 39.4mm but stop periodically and measure all around with your vernier to ensure its still round, if not grind the high points. Eventually after about 20 mins of grinding and measuring its ready. The bottom picture here shows the insert just BEFORE the correct diameter to drop into bezel was achieved.

















Once your happy with your insert, clean it to removed dust and stick it into the bezel with whatever you use, (I use GS Hypo cement), I would not use a gum ring as it will push the insert up slightly on the outer edge.

Next fit it to your Vostok! Top pic with a standard 38mm insert and 40mm bezel.

























And here's the tool I used and the diamond bits (purchased again from LIDL for £2.29 or about $3 USD!).

















And showing the insert face pointing AWAY from the die grinder (to actually grind it, I put a couple of my fingers inside the ID and spread them to hold the insert).


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*

Hi everyone, first of all a big thanks to Matt (and to all of you contributors, too) for this unbelievably helpful source of infomation! I'm a new member of this forum and although I had no experience at all with the technical side of mechanical watches, I was able to solve almost all problems an questions I ever had with my Amphibias and Komandirskies myself - just with the help of this thread (and a few videos)!

But now I have encountered a problem for which I haven't been able to find a solution. I tried to repair a broken mainspring in a 2414 movement by replacing the whole spring barrel. I bought a new one fit for this type of movement, put it in according to the description but everytime I try to wind it, the whole barrel keeps rotating so the spring inside the barrel is not wound at all. Does anyone have an idea what might be the reason for this?


----------



## Dodgydruid

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Parkgate said:


> BBI PART TWO
> 
> If your planned BBI mod requires a domed ceramic (or domed anodized) bezel insert, heres the guide.
> 
> You WILL need a vernier caliper, a mini die grinder (I purchased mine from Lidl for about £15 a couple of years ago), small half round files for anodized inserts or diamond coated bits for ceramic inserts. This guide is for CERAMIC inserts, for anodized inserts use a file (but ensure not to drag a burr onto the seen face).
> 
> First select an insert, I found a few on ebay ranging from 39.7mm OD to 40mm OD. Ensure the insert you have selected DOES NOT have numerals/markers that go to the inner or outer edges as you will be grinding some material away with your diamond coated bits in the die grinder. So heres the one I've purchased for this mod, a ceramic 40mm OD SMP style insert.
> 
> View attachment 14811699
> 
> 
> View attachment 14811703
> 
> 
> The ID (31.7mm) of this insert is to small to clear the upstand on the bezel, so first carefully grind of the central upstand/ spigot like this:
> 
> View attachment 14811707
> 
> 
> View attachment 14811709
> 
> 
> Next, its time to grind the OD of the ceramic, do this in a garage, or outside and wear glasses/goggles and a mask if you have one...you DO NOT want to be breathing a mixture of rock hard ceramic and diamond dust especially in an enclosed space!
> 
> With a diamond bit in your die grinder, stick two three fingers through the inserts ID (with the seen face towards your arm, ie away from the die grinder) and whiz around the OD with your die grinder about twenty times. It doesn't take long (a couple of mins) and measure the OD, you will find you have only taken about 0.01mm off of the OD. This is because the glaze coat on the outside is extremely hard. So whiz around again (20 times), re-measure and your probably nearer to having taken 0.1mm off. Keep going, your target is just under 39.4mm but stop periodically and measure all around with your vernier to ensure its still round, if not grind the high points. Eventually after about 20 mins of grinding and measuring its ready. The bottom picture here shows the insert just BEFORE the correct diameter to drop into bezel was achieved.
> 
> View attachment 14811735
> 
> 
> View attachment 14811737
> 
> 
> Once your happy with your insert, clean it to removed dust and stick it into the bezel with whatever you use, (I use GS Hypo cement), I would not use a gum ring as it will push the insert up slightly on the outer edge.
> 
> Next fit it to your Vostok! Top pic with a standard 38mm insert and 40mm bezel.
> 
> View attachment 14811743
> 
> 
> View attachment 14811745
> 
> 
> View attachment 14811747
> 
> 
> And here's the tool I used and the diamond bits (purchased again from LIDL for £2.29 or about $3 USD!).
> 
> View attachment 14811799
> 
> 
> View attachment 14812161
> 
> 
> And showing the insert face pointing AWAY from the die grinder (to actually grind it, I put a couple of my fingers inside the ID and spread them to hold the insert).
> 
> View attachment 14811803


I abs swear by Lidl's brands Parkside and PowerFix, my cordless die grinder kit I got with all the attachments has done me superbly now for its third year, I just can't fault it. I have the 18v drill and the 20v impact driver, the belt/grinder and various air tools which all have served me well


----------



## Dodgydruid

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Irreversible Mechanism said:


> Hi everyone, first of all a big thanks to Matt (and to all of you contributors, too) for this unbelievably helpful source of infomation! I'm a new member of this forum and although I had no experience at all with the technical side of mechanical watches, I was able to solve almost all problems an questions I ever had with my Amphibias and Komandirskies myself - just with the help of this thread (and a few videos)!
> 
> But now I have encountered a problem for which I haven't been able to find a solution. I tried to repair a broken mainspring in a 2414 movement by replacing the whole spring barrel. I bought a new one fit for this type of movement, put it in according to the description but everytime I try to wind it, the whole barrel keeps rotating so the spring inside the barrel is not wound at all. Does anyone have an idea what might be the reason for this?


I'm not sure but Mark Lovick's watch repair channel has a couple vids on mainsprings, from memory the spring end is slipping and I am sure there is some kinda brake grease that helps the spring stay in one place. The barrel I think turns winding against the spring inside so if the spring is slipping it will never wind. I had this with my tank commander Komandirskie and I just harvested a mainspring from another 2414A and it worked off the bat.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Dodgydruid said:


> I'm not sure but Mark Lovick's watch repair channel has a couple vids on mainsprings, from memory the spring end is slipping and I am sure there is some kinda brake grease that helps the spring stay in one place. The barrel I think turns winding against the spring inside so if the spring is slipping it will never wind. I had this with my tank commander Komandirskie and I just harvested a mainspring from another 2414A and it worked off the bat.


Thanks a lot Dodgydruid! I will have a look at the videos. At first I thought there was something wrong with the spring inside the barrel so I took another new barrel and replaced the first one but I had the same issue with the second one as well. The barrel kept rotating when trying to wind it up.


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## Matt_Bored_O

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Irreversible Mechanism said:


> Thanks a lot Dodgydruid! I will have a look at the videos. At first I thought there was something wrong with the spring inside the barrel so I took another new barrel and replaced the first one but I had the same issue with the second one as well. The barrel kept rotating when trying to wind it up.


Irreversible Mechanism: welcome to the Russian Forum and welcome to the crazy world of Vostok.

Mainspring: I assume that you have made sure absolutely that you have installed the Mainspring and Barrel assembly for 2414 and NOT for 2416 Automatic ?

You said:

_ "... replacing the whole spring barrel..."
"... took another new barrel..."_

You did not say if you also replaced the Mainspring itself.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Matt_Bored_O said:


> Irreversible Mechanism: welcome to the Russian Forum and welcome to the crazy world of Vostok.
> 
> Mainspring: I assume that you have made sure absolutely that you have installed the Mainspring and Barrel assembly for 2414 and NOT for 2416 Automatic ?
> 
> You said:
> 
> _ "... replacing the whole spring barrel..."
> "... took another new barrel..."_
> 
> You did not say if you also replaced the Mainspring itself.


Thanks Matt and sorry for the confusion. By using the term "barrel" I meant the whole unit of spring barrel AND spring. I bought 2 new replacement barrels (with spring included) from Meranom fitting the 2414 movement (according to Meranom's website) and both of them showed the same effect I described above. I didn't open any of the barrels to look at the spring. That's why I bought the whole unit in the first place. I didn't want any playing around with the spring. Just swap the barrel and be done with it. Or so I thought...


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## EndeavourDK

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



Irreversible Mechanism said:


> Thanks Matt and sorry for the confusion. By using the term "barrel" I meant the whole unit of spring barrel AND spring. I bought 2 new replacement barrels (with spring included) from Meranom fitting the 2414 movement (according to Meranom's website) and both of them showed the same effect I described above. I didn't open any of the barrels to look at the spring. That's why I bought the whole unit in the first place. I didn't want any playing around with the spring. Just swap the barrel and be done with it. Or so I thought...


Sounds a bit like a problem with the ratchet-wheel / click or another problem ..... uploading a view clear close-up pictures could (hopefully) be very helpful .....

Don't open the new barrels, no need for yet.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*



EndeavourDK said:


> Sounds a bit like a problem with the ratchet-wheel / click or another problem ..... uploading a view clear close-up pictures could (hopefully) be very helpful .....


Here is a picure of the movement (detailed enough, hopefully). Maybe you guys find something wrong there.


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## Irreversible Mechanism

*Re: --- A Guide: Buying and Modifying VOSTOK AMPHIBIA ---*


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## EndeavourDK

Before we start investigating, it is very important to learn & to get the terminology right. I attached your picture and a schematic of the mainspring barrel with some basic names, as a starter;

1) Ratchet wheel.
2) Click.
3) Crown wheel
4) Barrel-bridge.
5) Wheel-train bridge.

I can not see something odd on your picture. As I understand you ordered the correct complete 2414 mainspring barrel.
Going through what you should have done, in order to change the old barrel out for the new; you must have taken the ratchet wheel off, undone the 3x screws holding the barrel bridge, lifted the barrel bridge on one side slightly & carefully, just enough to allow the old barrel to drop out and to insert the new barrel. Than closed the barrel-bridge (making sure it was seated nicely), inserted the 3x screws and installed the ratchet wheel again ?

If you have followed another procedure, please describe exactly what you have done.
Also, have you touched / lifted or undone any screws of the wheel-train bridge?

To follow the winding procedure, best is to insert the winding stem + crown again.

When you turn the crown in the winding position (with the winding stem fully pushed in), the crown-wheel should start rotating. The crown-wheel drives the ratchet wheel clock-wise. The ratchet wheel drives the arbor (which sits in the middle of the mainspring barrel). The arbor-hook hooks in the spring-eye and that's how the spring get wound. The click "clicks" when the ratchet wheel is turned, but goes into the "lock"-positions, preventing the ratchet wheel from rotating back, as soon as you stop winding.
On the side of the movement you can see a part of the new spring barrel. That one should not move/turn while winding the spring.

So, when you turn the crown and wind the spring, exactly what is turning? :think:


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## Irreversible Mechanism

EndeavourDK said:


> Before we start investigating, it is very important to learn & to get the terminology right. I attached your picture and a schematic of the mainspring barrel with some basic names, as a starter;
> 
> 1) Ratchet wheel.
> 2) Click.
> 3) Crown wheel
> 4) Barrel-bridge.
> 5) Wheel-train bridge.
> 
> I can not see something odd on your picture. As I understand you ordered the correct complete 2414 mainspring barrel.
> Going through what you should have done, in order to change the old barrel out for the new; you must have taken the ratchet wheel off, undone the 3x screws holding the barrel bridge, lifted the barrel bridge on one side slightly & carefully, just enough to allow the old barrel to drop out and to insert the new barrel. Than closed the barrel-bridge (making sure it was seated nicely), inserted the 3x screws and installed the ratchet wheel again ?
> 
> If you have followed another procedure, please describe exactly what you have done.
> Also, have you touched / lifted or undone any screws of the wheel-train bridge?
> 
> To follow the winding procedure, best is to insert the winding stem + crown again.
> 
> When you turn the crown in the winding position (with the winding stem fully pushed in), the crown-wheel should start rotating. The crown-wheel drives the ratchet wheel clock-wise. The ratchet wheel drives the arbor (which sits in the middle of the mainspring barrel). The arbor-hook hooks in the spring-eye and that's how the spring get wound. The click "clicks" when the ratchet wheel is turned, but goes into the "lock"-positions, preventing the ratchet wheel from rotating back, as soon as you stop winding.
> On the side of the movement you can see a part of the new spring barrel. That one should not move/turn while winding the spring.
> 
> So, when you turn the crown and wind the spring, exactly what is turning? :think:


Thanks for this very accurate and understandable description! The steps you described for replacing the spring barrel are exactly the ones I followed. I had found a very good "how to" somewhere here in the forum (or even in this thread). The procedure felt easier than, for example, changing hands. So I was very surprised that after the assembly the WHOLE BARREL turned when I try to wind (to answer your last question). I can see the barrel turning through the small gap at the side of the movement. So hardly any resistance and no winding of the spring inside.


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## EndeavourDK

When winding, are any of these wheels turning; the center-wheel and the 3rd wheel?

If the answer is no; did you compare and measure the (OD) size of the old & new barrel?

If the answer is yes, something is up with the wheel-train.


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## RPatrickM

I'm looking to buy my first Vostok. My top picks are 020715, 030788, 170864, 710923, 350715, 110909. Which one's got the biggest wrist presence excluding the bezel? I'll probably be swapping that out regardless of which model. Where's a good place to get brushed coin edge bezels/brushed clean bezels, and NATO/ZULU straps? When it comes to lug width, I prefer 22mm which can be a problem for the 020 and 030 cases. Anybody tried widening the lug width yet?


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## EndeavourDK

RPatrickM said:


> I'm looking to buy my first Vostok. My top picks are 020715, 030788, 170864, 710923, 350715, 110909. Which one's got the biggest wrist presence excluding the bezel? I'll probably be swapping that out regardless of which model. Where's a good place to get brushed coin edge bezels/brushed clean bezels, and NATO/ZULU straps? When it comes to lug width, I prefer 22mm which can be a problem for the 020 and 030 cases. Anybody tried widening the lug width yet?


To get as much as possible exposure and input to your question, perhaps it's better to start a new thread ... ;-)


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## Irreversible Mechanism

EndeavourDK said:


> When winding, are any of these wheels turning; the center-wheel and the 3rd wheel?
> 
> If the answer is no; did you compare and measure the (OD) size of the old & new barrel?


The answer is no. Neither of the wheels move. I did not measure any differences in the diameter of the barrrels because I simply threw away the old barrel after installing the new one. It did not occur to me that there could be a difference worth measuring. As I had purchased new barrels that were meant to fit into the 2414A movement, there was no need to measure anything in my opinion but maybe I was wrong. What would be the right size then? And in what kind of Vostok movement do barrels with a smaller diameter fit?


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## EndeavourDK

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> The answer is no. Neither of the wheels move. I did not measure any differences in the diameter of the barrrels because I simply threw away the old barrel after installing the new one. It did not occur to me that there could be a difference worth measuring. As I had purchased new barrels that were meant to fit into the 2414A movement, there was no need to measure anything in my opinion but maybe I was wrong. What would be the right size then? And in what kind of Vostok movement do barrels with a smaller diameter fit?


If everything would work as it should, the main-wheel (see picture above) engages into the teeth of the center-wheel. The center-wheel drives the wheel-train and the wheel-train can only advance when the escape-wheel is unlocked by the escapement. So in theory, since the wheel-train is locked, the main-wheel (the outer of the spring-barrel) is locked as well.
It starts to look like that your main-wheel is allowed to turn free, i.e. the main-wheel teeth are not engaging into the center-wheel teeth. Therefor I'm wondering if the new spring-barrels you received are of the correct size or perhaps not Vostok at all ? :think:

I just measured some of mine Vostok 2409/2414 spring barrels and they measure, from "teeth-to-teeth" ø11.28 mm. 
Your movement, judging the color of the balance wheel and the anti-shock spring, is from the Soviet period.
As far as I'm aware, but I could be wrong (!), is that all the spring barrels for the 2409/2414 stayed the same in size from the Soviet time up until now ..... but again, it may be that in the last few years they've changed the sizes without informing me -|). I'm only dealing with the older movements, but so far I've never came across a discussion highlighting the difference in sizes between now and a few years back.

Since you never touched the wheel-train bridge and the watch was (I assume) working fine before the barrel change, we can exclude the train up to the center-wheel. 
It has something to do with the engagement between the main-wheel teeth and the center-wheel teeth; something isn't right there.
Too bad you've thrown the old barrel out, but now you have my measurements so you can compare.

If your spring-barrels do have a smaller OD than the size I've given you, you either received the wrong barrels or Vostok has changed the modern spring-barrel sizes ..... :think:

I'm very curious about your findings ........ ;-)


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## Irreversible Mechanism

EndeavourDK said:


> If everything would work as it should, the main-wheel (see picture above) engages into the teeth of the center-wheel. The center-wheel drives the wheel-train and the wheel-train can only advance when the escape-wheel is unlocked by the escapement. So in theory, since the wheel-train is locked, the main-wheel (the outer of the spring-barrel) is locked as well.
> It starts to look like that your main-wheel is allowed to turn free, i.e. the main-wheel teeth are not engaging into the center-wheel teeth. Therefor I'm wondering if the new spring-barrels you received are of the correct size or perhaps not Vostok at all ? :think:
> 
> I just measured some of mine Vostok 2409/2414 spring barrels and they measure, from "teeth-to-teeth" ø11.28 mm.
> Your movement, judging the color of the balance wheel and the anti-shock spring, is from the Soviet period.
> As far as I'm aware, but I could be wrong (!), is that all the spring barrels for the 2409/2414 stayed the same in size from the Soviet time up until now ..... but again, it may be that in the last few years they've changed the sizes without informing me -|). I'm only dealing with the older movements, but so far I've never came across a discussion highlighting the difference in sizes between now and a few years back.
> 
> Since you never touched the wheel-train bridge and the watch was (I assume) working fine before the barrel change, we can exclude the train up to the center-wheel.
> It has something to do with the engagement between the main-wheel teeth and the center-wheel teeth; something isn't right there.
> Too bad you've thrown the old barrel out, but now you have my measurements so you can compare.
> 
> If your spring-barrels do have a smaller OD than the size I've given you, you either received the wrong barrels or Vostok has changed the modern spring-barrel sizes ..... :think:
> 
> I'm very curious about your findings ........ ;-)


The size of the barrel seems to be OK, as exactly as I can measure the diameter with my equipment. But there is something else I noticed: When I pull out the crown to the setting position and turn it, I have to turn it against a slight resistance (less resistance than winding a proper working mainspring). It feels differently from turning a crown in the setting position on a proper working movement. When I release the crown after some turns, the crown turns back automatically as if I had wound a (very soft) spring. Maybe a hint at something?


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## EndeavourDK

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> The size of the barrel seems to be OK, as exactly as I can measure the diameter with my equipment. But there is something else I noticed: When I pull out the crown to the setting position and turn it, I have to turn it against a slight resistance (less resistance than winding a proper working mainspring). It feels differently from turning a crown in the setting position on a proper working movement. When I release the crown after some turns, the crown turns back automatically as if I had wound a (very soft) spring. Maybe a hint at something?


In the time-setting position the (sliding) clutch engages with the intermediate wheel. The intermediate wheel (or wheels) start to drive the cannon-pinion. The cannon-pinion is friction fit to the center-wheel which in turn is connected to the wheel-train.
Trying to think out loud; the wheel-train is locked by the escapement, so in theory all what (could) moves would be the cannon-pinion, the hour-wheel and the date-mechanism. Not sure where the recoil may come from :-s

*If* the barrel is the right size than I'm slowly running out of distance help-idea's :think: :roll: 
Next would be stripping the movement to have a look what is going on and if you don't have experience in that, I'm afraid that can not be told in three easy lessons :-(

Other options would to purchase a new movement or get an experienced friend or watchmaker to have a look at it. I do have NOS Soviet 2414 movements which I can service for you prior shipment, but it all depends how much you like to spend or do self attempts? There are still many options open but without seeing the movement, I'm slowly running out idea's. Perhaps another comrade has some other idea's ?


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## mariomart

I'm starting to think that there may be a problem with the centre wheel, as the energy from the mainspring barrel is normally transferred to the small cog on the centre wheel. Is it possible that the small cog's bond to the centre wheel hub has been compromised, allowing it to essentially free-wheel and not allowing the mainspring to charge?


----------



## EndeavourDK

Yes, the problem has to be in that area. The small center-wheel cog is normally quite sturdy. If it is not the size of the spring-barrel (perhaps a 2214 barrel was sent; measuring 10.6mm) preventing the teeth from engaging, something else is happening and to find out, IMO the movement has to be stripped :think:


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Is it possible that one of the Centre Wheel pinions or jewels was damaged when the Mainspring Barrel was installed?

Sometimes if a part is installed without allowing the teeth to properly and gently mesh with the teeth of the other part, and if too much force is used, the installed part could push hard against the other part and damage a pinion or jewel. The teeth of both parts may not then mesh.


I think Mario's thought is also worth investigating.


----------



## EndeavourDK

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> Is it possible that one of the Centre Wheel pinions or jewels was damaged when the Mainspring Barrel was installed?
> 
> Sometimes if a part is installed without allowing the teeth to properly and gently mesh with the teeth of the other part, and if too much force is used, the installed part could push hard against the other part and damage a pinion or jewel. The teeth of both parts may not then mesh.
> 
> I think Mario's thought is also worth investigating.


From the trouble shooting we have gone through so far, something seems to be up with the teeth engagement / power-transfer between the main-wheel and the center-wheel. It seems that we are at a point that without stripping the movement we can only guess, many plausible options left.

To describe how to strip, the were to watch out for's, the do's & don'ts, removing the cap-stones, the cleaning, the lubricating, the assembly (and that's even without the faultfinding / corrective action(s) required) is something I'm not going to pen down.

I think I've given it a fair shot and handed our comrade with options on how to proceed. Sending the movement to me, repair, service and retour shipping is going to cost the same as a new movement, whether that's a modern 2414 from Meranom or one of my Soviet NOS.

Other comrades are more than welcome to come up with other "none-stripping" idea's, suggestion and checks or explain the whole servicing and fixing procedure ;-)


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

EndeavourDK said:


> Other comrades are more than welcome to come up with other "non-stripping" idea's, suggestion and checks or explain the whole servicing and fixing procedure ;-)


Endeavour: I must thank you for all the help you have given us with your excellent repair articles and photos. 
I don't think most people realise how much time and effort is required to create such posts.

_Anyone_ is welcome to submit _any _ideas they have for possible causes of problems.

This is part of the hobby and some folks have fun trying to think of all the possibilities. 
Some folks have only a quick theory or two and have no interest in producing a tutorial. 
That is OK.

What you don't know is that for every _one_ person who asks about a problem with their watch, there are _many other_ people with the same or similar problem. Most of these folks never post a message and quietly come here to read all the responses and repair ideas.

The theories and ideas we give help to guide them and teach them.

I know this because such people write to me privately and say exactly this.


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## Irreversible Mechanism

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Endeavour: I must thank you for all the help you have given us with your excellent repair articles and photos.
> I don't think most people realise how much time and effort is required to create such posts.
> 
> _Anyone_ is welcome to submit _any _ideas they have for possible causes of problems.
> 
> This is part of the hobby and some folks have fun trying to think of all the possibilities.
> 
> What you don't know is that for every one person who asks about a problem with their watch, there are _many other_ people with the same or similar problem. Most of these folks never post a message and quietly come here to read all the responses and repair ideas.
> 
> The theories and ideas we give help to guide them and teach them.
> 
> I know this because such people write to me privately and say exactly this.


I couldn't have written it better! Thanks so much Matt for summing up the essentials of all this in such a kind way! And many many thanks to you EndeavourDK and Mario for your excellent ideas and descriptions! Again I've learned a lot by your posts and really appreciate the time and effort you have spent on them! In this coming week I will try to follow your suggestions step by step in order to find the source of the problem. You have narrowed it down so much that I am quite confident I will find at least something. I'll keep you updated on my findings. My motivation behind spending a lot of time on an old 20$ movement is that I want to be able to fix these kind of repairs (and troubleshooting) myself as I have been collecting and modding Vostoks for some time now. Ordering a new movement is of course the ultima ratio to finally solve it but I still feel the urge to try everything else thats possible first. And I still have a lot of spare parts lying around as well...;-)

A pleasant sunday to all of you and thanks again!


----------



## Dave51

It is amazing how helpful and supportive the members are here. There input, advice, and assistance is always top notch and very welcome.


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## Irreversible Mechanism

Dave51 said:


> It is amazing how helpful and supportive the members are here. There input, advice, and assistance is always top notch and very welcome.


Yes, you're absolutely right! Thanks to all who have helped me so far trying to solve and explain the "strange behaviour" of my 2414. I haven't come to a conclusion so far, lacking time (and courage) to completely disassemble (and re-assemble) the movement. So please be patient, it is still on my to-do-list for the coming weeks.

In the meantime, a different (and not so technical) question has aroused: Does anybody know of a higher caseback allowing to install an automatic movement in an old Amphibia or Komandirskie case (the smaller caseback diameter with only one pin)?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

Thorsten


----------



## mariomart

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> Yes, you're absolutely right! Thanks to all who have helped me so far trying to solve and explain the "strange behaviour" of my 2414. I haven't come to a conclusion so far, lacking time (and courage) to completely disassemble (and re-assemble) the movement. So please be patient, it is still on my to-do-list for the coming weeks.
> 
> In the meantime, a different (and not so technical) question has aroused: Does anybody know of a higher caseback allowing to install an automatic movement in an old Amphibia or Komandirskie case (the smaller caseback diameter with only one pin)?
> 
> As always, thanks in advance for your help!
> 
> Thorsten


I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I just wanted to show you this curiosity that I came across and purchased a few months ago.

The case was a curious asymmetrical Komandirskie style brass case but within was a 2416b automatic movement. On closer inspection on its arrival I noticed that the automatic rotor was actually smaller than a normal rotor, but on inspection of the manufacturing it looks like it was done at the factory as the parts were unique (not simply shaved down). The case back has the same dimensions as a regular Komandirskie single lug case back, but it has the height of a regular Amphibia case back, I'm not sure if this is a factory manufactured part.

It's a very curious collection of parts. Perhaps the factory meddled in some prototypes, perhaps for an automatic Komandirskie. The case back is engraved with the year 1980 which makes it even more curiouser. So many thoughts, lol.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

mariomart said:


> I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I just wanted to show you this curiosity that I came across and purchased a few months ago.
> 
> The case was a curious asymmetrical Komandirskie style brass case but within was a 2416b automatic movement. On closer inspection on its arrival I noticed that the automatic rotor was actually smaller than a normal rotor, but on inspection of the manufacturing it looks like it was done at the factory as the parts were unique (not simply shaved down). The case back has the same dimensions as a regular Komandirskie single lug case back, but it has the height of a regular Amphibia case back, I'm not sure if this is a factory manufactured part.
> 
> It's a very curious collection of parts. Perhaps the factory meddled in some prototypes, perhaps for an automatic Komandirskie. The case back is engraved with the year 1980 which makes it even more curiouser. So many thoughts, lol.


That is really interesting! Thanks for sharing this unique piece! This is exactly the kind of caseback I had in mind (but wasn't sure it really existed). If there was only a chance to buy this...


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## mariomart

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> That is really interesting! Thanks for sharing this unique piece! This is exactly the kind of caseback I had in mind (but wasn't sure it really existed). If there was only a chance to buy this...


Sorry but not selling, I might be doing something in the future


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## Dodgydruid

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> Yes, you're absolutely right! Thanks to all who have helped me so far trying to solve and explain the "strange behaviour" of my 2414. I haven't come to a conclusion so far, lacking time (and courage) to completely disassemble (and re-assemble) the movement. So please be patient, it is still on my to-do-list for the coming weeks.
> 
> In the meantime, a different (and not so technical) question has aroused: Does anybody know of a higher caseback allowing to install an automatic movement in an old Amphibia or Komandirskie case (the smaller caseback diameter with only one pin)?
> 
> As always, thanks in advance for your help!
> 
> Thorsten


There are some good youtube vids, Mark Lovick has recently done a 24xx and a chap called Ratfaced_Git has some extremely detailed close up vids working on Russian movements and his 2209 vid saved my sanity where I had put it all together and had mislaid the tiny canon pinion but found another 2209 that I could harvest one from.

Just today I have been without success tried to demagnetise the 2414A hairspring in my KGB dialled piece, it just wasn't having it and I have now taken the balance assy out and peering at it via my microscope, it is very magnetised and I don't think it will run again so going to go through my scrap movements for a good balance.

I like to liken the Vostok's to the majestic Ford Cortina or Ford Escort, or even the Lada Riva for bog standard reliability and the absolute ease to work on these watches. You like the old boy racers or Garage 54 does now, bling them up, tune them up and they can take the abuse from a knowlessman like myself and still work 

On ebay there are several sellers of scrap 2209, 2409 and 2414As in bulk, I would recommend grabbing a handful of these movements and take some down to components then put one back together again, if it doesn't work strip it down and try again noting any mistakes made previously, it is a very soothing and enjoyable experience and again if it doesn't work then you should be beginning to see where its not working and having a few of these scrappers means you have the parts to build at least one good solid movement and you can say to people "hey I built this"


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Dodgydruid said:


> ....Just today I have been without success tried to demagnetise the 2414A hairspring.....


Are you sure it is absolutely clean?

A very, very thin film of oil is enough to cause the coils to bind together.

To Demagnetise a Hairspring:

Some experts recommend removing the entire Balance and Balance Cock assembly with hairspring attached.

Gently wrap the assembly in a soft lint free cloth. Pass it through the demagnetiser several times. The cloth prevents the hairspring vibrating when the alternating magnetic field strikes it.

I have done this many times with success. 
Remember to also demagnetise the tweezers, unless they are brass.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Dodgydruid said:


> .....On ebay there are several sellers of scrap 2209, 2409 and 2414As in bulk, *I would recommend grabbing a handful of these movements and take some down to components then put one back together again*, if it doesn't work strip it down and try again noting any mistakes made previously, it is a very soothing and enjoyable experience and again if it doesn't work then you should be beginning to see where its not working and having a few of these scrappers means you have the parts to build at least one good solid movement and *you can say to people "hey I built this"*


Thank you for this message.!!

These movements are inexpensive and plentiful. I urge everyone to get a few simple tools, put some good music on the stereo, relax and just begin disassembling a Vostok movement, one part at a time. Just a few simple parts. When you feel more confident, you can remove more complex parts. Examine each part to see its shape, design and function. When you think you are ready, you can begin to re-assemble it. Never worry about making mistakes, because you will make some. Remember there are guys here to guide you and there are videos and photos available.


----------



## Kotsov

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Thank you for this message.!!
> 
> These movements are inexpensive and plentiful. I urge everyone to get a few simple tools, put some good music on the stereo, relax and just begin disassembling a Vostok movement, one part at a time. Just a few simple parts. When you feel more confident, you can remove more complex parts. Examine each part to see its shape, design and function. When you think you are ready, you can begin to re-assemble it. Never worry about making mistakes, because you will make some. Remember there are guys here to guide you and there are videos and photos available.


Top quality post.


----------



## Dodgydruid

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Are you sure it is absolutely clean?
> 
> A very, very thin film of oil is enough to cause the coils to bind together.
> 
> To Demagnetise a Hairspring:
> 
> Some experts recommend removing the entire Balance and Balance Cock assembly with hairspring attached.
> 
> Gently wrap the assembly in a soft lint free cloth. Pass it through the demagnetiser several times. The cloth prevents the hairspring vibrating when the alternating current strikes it.
> 
> I have done this many times with success.
> Remember to also demagnetise the tweezers, unless they are brass.


Thank you, yes I did resort to taking the whole assy out and into a bath of naptha, still bunching together after a thorough clean and the coils actually move themselves towards a ferrous object so have the demagger on and gently with it wrapped in a soft lint free cloth am slowly getting it to unbunch itself  I have wondered if it got some coronavirus perhaps because I have heard people saying they got all clenched up from it 

I have no idea how it became so magged up, I regularly check my tools for magnetism and give them a "wipe" if they start to attract screws etc. I even keep my mag mounted lamps etc well well away from the tools for that reason  I have a selection of anti-mag tweezers, a set of brass ones and a set of plastic ones as I don't quite trust the so called antimagnetic ones so tend to use the placcy ones for the innards.


----------



## Dodgydruid

I've given up on this particular assy as either my demagger is knackered (cheap chinese blue brick) or its terminally magnetised. I found a very nice condition one with a beautiful hairspring spread from one of them pennies on the pound scrap movements I get in from time to time. Its just had its bath and waiting for me to set microscope up to try and get it to go in smoothly, I have dabbed a drop of the slippery stuff on the bottom jewel saving me having to strip the whole thing down and will pop the top jewel out once I have got it set in place although I could just as easily drop some lube on the topmost pivot but the chances are it will hit the hairspring so by the book it will be done... ish 

I will prob get in a new demagnetiser as these blue bricks have a reputation of going wrong, I do have one of them all in one watch tool thingies which says it has a demagnetising function, I use it to free up sticky quartz and testing batteries, also diagnoses when quartz are pulsing but I think the demagnetiser claim is false but is brilliant if you have a gummed up quartz watch and just let it whizz the hands round for ten minutes sometimes brings back a dead quartz.


----------



## 24h

I made this diagram for someone and I thought it might be useful to have here.

How to change the date wheel on a Vostok 24XX movement:


----------



## VWatchie

EndeavourDK said:


> From the trouble shooting we have gone through so far, something seems to be up with the teeth engagement / power-transfer between the main-wheel and the center-wheel. It seems that we are at a point that without stripping the movement we can only guess, many plausible options left.
> 
> To describe how to strip, the were to watch out for's, the do's & don'ts, removing the cap-stones, the cleaning, the lubricating, the assembly (and that's even without the faultfinding / corrective action(s) required) is something I'm not going to pen down.
> 
> I think I've given it a fair shot and handed our comrade with options on how to proceed. Sending the movement to me, repair, service and retour shipping is going to cost the same as a new movement, whether that's a modern 2414 from Meranom or one of my Soviet NOS.
> 
> Other comrades are more than welcome to come up with other "none-stripping" idea's, suggestion and checks or explain the whole servicing and fixing procedure ;-)


It's been a long, long time since I read and posted in this thread but this caught my interest (I've been busy with some odd Swiss and Japanese calibres as of late, but at heart, I'm a Vostok man ;-)).

I have an idea and it's a long shot, but I'm thinking that if there's _something wrong with the click spring_, the winding crown would immediately slip back. Winding would rotate the ratchet wheel (and the mainspring arbor) and it could possibly give the impressions that the barrel is rotating when it is _not_. You would have to _look at the side of the movement to determine if the barrel itself is rotating when you wind (I believe you did) and not just the ratchet wheel_. The click spring sits under the click wheel. Please refer to EndeavourDK's post for terminology.









































The only difference between the 2409 and the 2414 is the calendar works which only consists of a few components, so if you decide to strip the movement I thought you might find my Vostok 2409 Service Walkthrough (with oiling suggestions and a few tips) useful.

Good luck and _please keep us updated_. I'm really curious to see if we can locate the problem.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Endeavour: *I must thank you for all the help you have given us with your excellent repair articles and photos. *
> *I don't think most people realise how much time and effort is required to create such posts.*
> 
> _Anyone_ is welcome to submit _any _ideas they have for possible causes of problems.
> 
> This is part of the hobby and some folks have fun trying to think of all the possibilities.
> Some folks have only a quick theory or two and have no interest in producing a tutorial.
> That is OK.
> 
> What you don't know is that for every _one_ person who asks about a problem with their watch, there are _many other_ people with the same or similar problem. Most of these folks never post a message and quietly come here to read all the responses and repair ideas.
> 
> The theories and ideas we give help to guide them and teach them.
> 
> I know this because such people write to me privately and say exactly this.


Indeed! Thanks EndeavourDK!


----------



## VWatchie

mariomart said:


> On closer inspection on its arrival I noticed that the automatic rotor was actually smaller than a normal rotor,


It could be the angle of the photo, but it looks like the rotor on the left is placed at -1 mm, no? :-s


----------



## VWatchie

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> (---)When I release the crown after some turns, the crown turns back automatically as if I had wound a (very soft) spring. Maybe a hint at something?


Do you mean that the winding crown automatically returns to the winding position once you let go of the crown being in setting position, or do you mean that when in winding position the crown automatically rotates back when you wind it? *If the latter I'd definitely say check the click spring.* Otherwise, perhaps the setting lever spring (the lid over the keyless works) or the yoke spring (also called "return bar spring" and "clutch lever spring").

I trust the very thorough fault-finding process done by EndevaourDK, but I'm itching so please bear with me...:-d


----------



## GillesVO

Does anybody know if I can use rotor screws to attach the movement to the fixing ring? 
I've got a 2415.01 with blue screws and a golden rotor. I've got the standard screws for the fixing ring, but I have some blue and some golden rotor screws left and I think I'd like to use those instead, for aesthetic reasons. 
I've already tried to replace them and it seems to be fine, but maybe it's ill-advised to do this?


----------



## VWatchie

GillesVO said:


> Does anybody know if I can use rotor screws to attach the movement to the fixing ring?
> I've got a 2415.01 with blue screws and a golden rotor. I've got the standard screws for the fixing ring, but I have some blue and some golden rotor screws left and I think I'd like to use those instead, for aesthetic reasons.
> *I've already tried to replace them and it seems to be fine, but maybe it's ill-advised to do this?*


I don't see any problem. As long as the fixing ring is in the right position, doesn't move around, and the screws don't interfere with anything (the rotor?) I think you should be all fine. I'd like to see the aesthetic effect. It will probably look pretty cool! Any pictures?


----------



## GillesVO

I'm still in the process of ordering a dial with IgorIV, so I can't show you the completed work yet. But here is how the movement will look. It's a Meranom bought 2415.01 movement with blued screws and gilded rotor, attached with gilded rotor screws (komandirskie.com) to a blue metal fixing ring bought on eBay. I had also bought a glass caseback from ebay that under certain lights has a blue or yellow hue. I had hoped that the effect was more subtle. I'm afraid it takes away from the aforementioned aesthetic effect a bit, but it's still nice and I wouldn't have any other use for that caseback, so I'm probably going through with the intended plan. Disclaimer: I don't take good photographs.
































Aarrgh, after I took those photos I dropped the running movement onto a dusty floor! With a quick look through a loupe I can see dust hanging on the isochronism lever and regulating lever. I don't have the courage to take a movement apart just yet. I have a Bergeon dust blower incoming, should I just apply a couple of puffs of air to the balance? Is that enough?


----------



## Dodgydruid

The short answer is... probably but dust egress can be unpredictable so really have a good deep look and hope nothing grindy got onto a oiled surface as it will become a sticky grindy surface so easily.

I would make sure it can't operate until you are super sure its all good and rodico it like crazy what you can't blow away.


----------



## GillesVO

Oh, by the way! I ordered this 3D printed movement holder, specifically designed for Vostoks, from Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/WWA8EZVNG/amphibian-movement-holder-lid?optionId=63530001&li=shops 
Check out the link, the product description says it all!
If this has been posted somewhere, I apologize, but I couldn't find anything about it when I bought it. I wonder who made this, I'm sure he lurks around these parts somewhere. Maybe one of the Matts or Tarquin? I know they have made/designed custom 3D printed movement holder prototypes before. I look forward to using it!


----------



## 24h

You can proabably remove the AR coating with Polywatch or a diamond paste and some very vigorous rubbing 

As for the dust: blowing air directly onto those parts might just move the dust elsewhere in the movement, only to cause other problems. If you have some clean Rodido you can gently "dab" the dust to remove it.

Maybe don't take my suggestions as the 100% correct thing to do. Not a watchmaker!


----------



## GillesVO

I have Rodico, I'll start cleaning asap, thanks for you guys' help!


----------



## 24h

GillesVO said:


> I have Rodico, I'll start cleaning asap, thanks for you guys' help!


Don't use it in areas that have been oiled, or you will remove it from where it's needed. Hopefully you just have dust on some random surfaces


----------



## Kotsov

24h said:


> You can proabably remove the AR coating with Polywatch or a diamond paste and some very vigorous rubbing


It still has the protective plastic film on it. Removing that first might do the trick?


----------



## 24h

Kotsov said:


> It still has the protective plastic film on it. Removing that first might do the trick?


On the inside?


----------



## Kotsov

24h said:


> On the inside?


No I meant removing the plastic film might help with the optical distortion.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

VWatchie said:


> Do you mean that the winding crown automatically returns to the winding position once you let go of the crown being in setting position, or do you mean that when in winding position the crown automatically rotates back when you wind it? *If the latter I'd definitely say check the click spring.* Otherwise, perhaps the setting lever spring (the lid over the keyless works) or the yoke spring (also called "return bar spring" and "clutch lever spring").
> 
> I trust the very thorough fault-finding process done by EndevaourDK, but I'm itching so please bear with me...:-d


Many thanks for your help! I haven't had the time to tinker with the 2414A lately, so sorry for the delayed answer. The winding crown automatically rotates back when it's in the SETTING position (that's the strange thing about it, at least for me). 
When I turn the crown in the winding position it has the effect of turning the ratchet wheel AS WELL AS the spring barrel (which can be seen when looking into the side of the movement). I checked the click spring and everything seems to work allright there.
I have two 2414A movements at the moment showing exactly the same "symptoms" mentioned above. And I had this problem with an old 2416B also. By disassembling it, I found out that the center wheel had loosened itself from its former position. It seemed to me as if it had been press-fitted so I wasn't able to fix it back in its former position. But this does not seem to be the problem here.

Anyway, what I found out when looking at the 2414A from a different perspective is the following: In a correctly working movement the winding mechanism and the setting mechanism are de-coupled (I hope the term is right here) when pulling the crown. This is NOT the case here. In the setting AND in the winding position the crown moves the setting and the minute wheel. The setting yoke seems to work correctly though and there is the usual "click" sound and "resistance" when pulling or pushing the crown. Any idea?


----------



## rainbowbattlekid

Hey, all. Sorry for the noob question but

I really dig the dial on the 170862, but I'm not huge on the case shape. Wondering if anyone knows 

1) which other cases would fit
2) how easy/doable would it be to swap cases and keep it water-resistant, like can i do that relatively fool-proof at home and/or get someone here to do it possibly?
3) if it's possible to remove the GMT hand easily
bonus 4) this is a pretty new watch, right? like it's still possible they make it in the 420 cases later? if so, maybe it's worth waiting?


(aside: i have a raketa big zero that seems to lose like, a god 5+ minutes by the end of the day if i set it in the morning. anyone have any idea if this is something i can fix at home if i get the tools or would i need to take it somewhere?)

Thanks!


----------



## Kotsov

rainbowbattlekid said:


> Hey, all. Sorry for the noob question but
> 
> I really dig the dial on the 170862, but I'm not huge on the case shape. Wondering if anyone knows
> 
> 1) which other cases would fit
> 2) how easy/doable would it be to swap cases and keep it water-resistant, like can i do that relatively fool-proof at home and/or get someone here to do it possibly?
> 3) if it's possible to remove the GMT hand easily
> bonus 4) this is a pretty new watch, right? like it's still possible they make it in the 420 cases later? if so, maybe it's worth waiting?
> 
> (aside: i have a raketa big zero that seems to lose like, a god 5+ minutes by the end of the day if i set it in the morning. anyone have any idea if this is something i can fix at home if i get the tools or would i need to take it somewhere?)
> 
> Thanks!


I feel the same and have been waiting for 710 cases to come back in stock at Meranom. They come with a crystal and crown so I'm presuming that it's a two screw job and done.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

rainbowbattlekid said:


> Hey, all. Sorry for the noob question but
> 
> I really dig the dial on the 170862, but I'm not huge on the case shape. Wondering if anyone knows
> 
> 1) which other cases would fit
> 2) how easy/doable would it be to swap cases and keep it water-resistant, like can i do that relatively fool-proof at home and/or get someone here to do it possibly?
> 3) if it's possible to remove the GMT hand easily
> bonus 4) this is a pretty new watch, right? like it's still possible they make it in the 420 cases later? if so, maybe it's worth waiting?
> 
> (aside: i have a raketa big zero that seems to lose like, a god 5+ minutes by the end of the day if i set it in the morning. anyone have any idea if this is something i can fix at home if i get the tools or would i need to take it somewhere?)
> 
> Thanks!


1. All new Amphibia and Komandirskie stainless steel cases (020, 060, 090, 100, 110, 120 etc.). For 420 and 710 you need a crown with a short stem and for the 060 one with a medium length stem, all sold seperately at meranom.com and komandirskie.com.
2. Open the case with a case opener, remove the gasket, unlock the crown by pushing the stem release button carefully with a toothpick. Take out the movement, put it into its new case, insert the crown carefully. If it doesn't "click" use a tweezer to grab the stem and push it a little further into the movement. When the crown is inserted, put back the gasket, the caseback and the ring, close the back by turning the ring with the case opener - done. There are some pictures here in the forum to describe how to do it, it's pretty easy.
3. To remove the GMT hand, use a hand removal tool and use it very carefully. Protect the dial with a thin sheet of paper and cover the hands with transparent plastic foil. There are a couple of youtube videos showing how to set and remove hands on a Vostok Amphibia. If you don't have the right tools and/or no experience with removing and setting hands, ask a watchmaker to do this for you. Or use an old beaten watch for practicing first. Otherwise you might ruin hands or dial (or both).
4. Personally, I don't expect that this watch will be issued in a 420 case in the future. Better buy a 420 case and sell the 170 if you don't like it.
5. I am no expert in Raketas but every mechanical movement that I know has at least a lever to regulate it and many also have a screw for fine tuning. So basically you don't need any special tool for that. But to regulate a watch without having to check the accuracy for over a day or so you need a timegrapher to show you how accurate the watch keeps time and how much the accuracy changes when pushing the lever.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

rainbowbattlekid said:


> (aside: i have a raketa big zero that seems to lose like, a god 5+ minutes by the end of the day if i set it in the morning. anyone have any idea if this is something i can fix at home if i get the tools or would i need to take it somewhere?)


5+ minutes per day sounds like some defect of the movement, though. You probably won't be able to fix that with regulating only.


----------



## rainbowbattlekid

Ah thanks. Now I'm actually considering getting a different watch and putting a favinov dial and hands in, so that would def get outsourced to a watchmaker or someone here if possible. i think even if i felt like i could follow youtube directions on changing things, i am so paranoid about messing something up and water getting in the case the first time i'm at the pool or something, so would rather have someone with experience do it lol

EDIT:

Yeah so I bought a watch and am deciding on which favinov dial and hands i'm gonna go with. is there an up-to-date list of users who would do something like that? and rough price estimate? my wife & daughter decided to pay for the watch/parts/repair for father's day, so I'm trying to figure out what the total is 

Thanks for any help!

OH bonus, i have this caseback as well, would this also fit on a new 420 case? the placement of those little notches seems to be a little different but i'm not sure how much that matters.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
rainbowbattlekid:

1. Where are you located? We can suggest several guys to do the work if we know where you are.

2. That caseback should fit the new 420. 


Cheers, and welcome to the forum
Matt


----------



## rainbowbattlekid

1) United States, DC

2) awesome. i don't have the tool to remove the caseback, but the watch it's attached to has water inside it, so i'm not sure how safe it is to try shipping that with another watch hmm.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
rainbowbattlekid:

Contact: ThePossumKing

He's in the midwest and a member of this forum.
He can do mods.
Tell him also about that caseback and the water issue and I'm sure he'll have some suggestions.


----------



## ben_w

Anyone own an Amphibia SE 710B40S and care to share some pics of it? I like the look from the Meranom site (https://meranom.com/en/amphibian-se/710se/vostok-watch-amphibian-se-710b40s.html), especially the bezel, indices and signed crown, which all make it look a little more refined than the classic Amphibia, in my view, but it would be good to see some higher quality images.


----------



## Kotsov

ben_w said:


> Anyone own an Amphibia SE 710B40S and care to share some pics of it? I like the look from the Meranom site (https://meranom.com/en/amphibian-se/710se/vostok-watch-amphibian-se-710b40s.html), especially the bezel, indices and signed crown, which all make it look a little more refined than the classic Amphibia, in my view, but it would be good to see some higher quality images.


I've one on the way but nor here yet


----------



## ben_w

Kotsov said:


> I've one on the way but nor here yet


Would love to see some pics here when you get it!


----------



## jimzilla

Hello comrades, does anyone know if the case back on this watch is screw - off or is it pop - off? 
I was not able to find a dimple in the case to get a tool into, it needs regulation. thank you, James.


----------



## Stoppel1

jimzilla said:


> Hello comrades, does anyone know if the case back on this watch is screw - off or is it pop - off?
> I was not able to find a dimple in the case to get a tool into, it needs regulation. thank you, James.


Should be a screw down back, the notches on the edge are for an opening tool

Gesendet von meinem Redmi Note 7 mit Tapatalk


----------



## PredatorGanaz

jimzilla said:


> Hello comrades, does anyone know if the case back on this watch is screw - off or is it pop - off?
> I was not able to find a dimple in the case to get a tool into, it needs regulation. thank you, James.


The watch looks pristine. Great maintenance Comrade @Jimzilla


----------



## Dodgydruid

Usually the faux screwdown casebacks have like a little lip or indentation which can be hard to spot for getting the case opener under, I got a Chinese Jaragar with a display back that looks like it should be opened with a wrench tool and it was only looking at it I spotted the little lip lol

I do like that display back, how does that fit in against the usual Russian lug and ring set?


----------



## Ligavesh

I thought collecting is bad, and now I've found modding - oh boy!

Anway, wamted to ask something : is it possible to put this seiko dial in a vostok case with a vostok mobement?


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Ligavesh said:


> I thought collecting is bad, and now I've found modding - oh boy!
> 
> Anway, wamted to ask something : is it possible to put this seiko dial in a vostok case with a vostok mobement?


I saw a dial like that on Aliexpress fit for Seiko SKX007 with a diameter of 28,5mm. That should fit into the Amphibia cases but the pins don't fit to the Vostok movement. So you have to remove the pins and use stickers to fix the dial on the movement.


----------



## Ligavesh

View attachment 15333573



Irreversible Mechanism said:


> I saw a dial like that on Aliexpress fit for Seiko SKX007 with a diameter of 28,5mm. That should fit into the Amphibia cases but the pins don't fit to the Vostok movement. So you have to remove the pins and use stickers to fix the dial on the movement.


Or I could just do the easy thing and buy a Seiko to mod - but where's the fun in that?


----------



## Ligavesh

double


----------



## Ligavesh

Ligavesh said:


> A question about lume - have you guys had experience with one or both of these products? I've bought the cheaper one and, although it generally has good reviews, it has some negative one's as well. The more expensive one only has short positive reviews, they don't go into detail, though. In my experience, when you buy cheap you buy twice (already bought cheap lol), but does it have to be so in this case, too?
> 
> View attachment 15336061
> 
> 
> View attachment 15336063





Ligavesh said:


> Again with another question: could I use the movements from these Komandirskies in an Amphibia case? A crown with stem from an Amphibia should fit, or?
> Link: Konvolut VOSTOK russische Armbanduhren | eBay
> 
> View attachment 15336428


I think these two questions are probably better suited here...

Edit: Additional question to the second one : could I use these movements and crowns in old 090 cases from the 70's of which I have a couple? I probably could, or?


----------



## DocTone

Ligavesh said:


> I think these two questions are probably better suited here...
> 
> Edit: Additional question to the second one : could I use these movements and crowns in old 090 cases from the 70's of which I have a couple? I probably could, or?


Hi ,
It is easier to answer to specific questions as on „ common and overalls .
Bombs of question doesn't help.

1. Lumen
If you are experienced ..so never buy cheap stuff.
BWG9 or tritec lumen you can buy at the bay : price range 70€ per g or 2 g

sound expensive but is not. With this amount of stuff you can serve several watches .

But when you are not experienced to handle .. start your First steps with cheaper material.

Highest price means best lumen .. .. but it doesn't help when it looks worse ( uneven .etc )

2.
as long you talk about amphibia ..everything is fitting (old or new cases)
Only have a view for correct stem and crown for specific case size.
movements are interchangeable between all Vostoks and Slava and.... and.... and ...

3.
the Link you posted ..is signed as Made in China. ?? 
no pic about movements ..etc . You'll like handwinded watches?
No judgement by my side


----------



## Ligavesh

DocTone said:


> Hi ,
> It is easier to answer to specific questions as on „ common and overalls .
> Bombs of question doesn't help.
> 
> 1. Lumen
> If you are experienced ..so never buy cheap stuff.
> BWG9 or tritec lumen you can buy at the bay : price range 70€ per g or 2 g
> 
> sound expensive but is not. With this amount of stuff you can serve several watches .
> 
> But when you are not experienced to handle .. start your First steps with cheaper material.
> 
> Highest price means best lumen .. .. but it doesn't help when it looks worse ( uneven .etc )
> 
> 2.
> as long you talk about amphibia ..everything is fitting (old or new cases)
> Only have a view for correct stem and crown for specific case size.
> movements are interchangeable between all Vostoks and Slava and.... and.... and ...
> 
> 3.
> the Link you posted ..is signed as Made in China. ??
> no pic about movements ..etc . You'll like handwinded watches?
> No judgement by my side


Thanks Doc, yeah it's a bit of a mess, I just had more questions at once, so I figured just stick 'em all together and people could take their pick what to answer.

About that last question - yeeh, it's weird - it says "used", but also "unworn"?? Also, those are clearly older Komandirskies ("Заказ МО СССР") but "made in China"??? - maybe he means the straps??? Anyway, yes, if I could get those movements I wouldn't mind putting together a watch (or couple) with those movements instead. It's hard enough to buy a movement anyway- I find it simpler to just buy a new watch from meranom and change the dial, hands etc... My question about these older movements was more about compatibility of parts : will they fit (and hold - with their holder) in a 'present day' case, and will I be able to use modern crowns/stems available on meranom, or I would be stuck with those old ones that would come with the watches (I dug through reviews on meranom last night, there was a question whether a certain crown and stem would fit a a 2209 - the answer was typical Dmitry blunt "no").

Thanks again for the reply

PS. Oh, and since I'm a beginner with lume, I'll stick with the cheaper stuff first


----------



## DocTone

Ligavesh said:


> Thanks Doc, yeah it's a bit of a mess, I just had more questions at once, so I figured just stick 'em all together and people could take their pick what to answer.
> 
> About that last question - yeeh, it's weird - it says "used", but also "unworn"?? Also, those are clearly older Komandirskies ("Заказ МО СССР") but "made in China"??? - maybe he means the straps??? Anyway, yes, if I could get those movements I wouldn't mind putting together a watch (or couple) with those movements instead. It's hard enough to buy a movement anyway- I find it simpler to just buy a new watch from meranom and change the dial, hands etc... My question about these older movements was more about compatibility of parts : will they fit (and hold - with their holder) in a 'present day' case, and will I be able to use modern crowns/stems available on meranom, or I would be stuck with those old ones that would come with the watches (I dug through reviews on meranom last night, there was a question whether a certain crown and stem would fit a a 2209 - the answer was typical Dmitry blunt "no").
> 
> Thanks again for the reply
> 
> PS. Oh, and since I'm a beginner with lume, I'll stick with the cheaper stuff first


24xx movements you can switch all around ..movement holder ring is almost same also.withhin Classic Vostok family amhipia and kommandirskie.

22xx basically also switchable Between the cases , but stem of 22xx doesn't fit .. into 24xx or vice versa, means if you want to use a 22xx in a modern case so consider the size of case. Old 2209 stem ( eg old119 tonneau Case) is fitting for only for new midsize cases like 420 or 710
I love the 2209 ...and have it in two 710 .... after servicing and adjustment they running very very accurate - from my feeling better than 24xx


----------



## Ligavesh

DocTone said:


> 24xx movements you can switch all around ..movement holder ring is almost same also.withhin Classic Vostok family amhipia and kommandirskie.
> 
> 22xx basically also switchable Between the cases , but stem of 22xx doesn't fit .. into 24xx or vice versa, means if you want to use a 22xx in a modern case so consider the size of case. Old 2209 stem ( eg old119 tonneau Case) is fitting for only for new midsize cases like 420 or 710
> I love the 2209 ...and have it in two 710 .... after servicing and adjustment they running very very accurate - from my feeling better than 24xx


I think I have to send a message to the seller to clear up what kind of movements he has in those watches really... if he can tell at all...

In the meantime - I thought you couldn't find 24xx movements (or any other movements) anywhere, but I actually found them on komandirskie. com - I don't know why at first it said they were not available...


----------



## Ligavesh

DocTone said:


> 24xx movements you can switch all around ..movement holder ring is almost same also.withhin Classic Vostok family amhipia and kommandirskie.
> 
> 22xx basically also switchable Between the cases , but stem of 22xx doesn't fit .. into 24xx or vice versa, means if you want to use a 22xx in a modern case so consider the size of case. Old 2209 stem ( eg old119 tonneau Case) is fitting for only for new midsize cases like 420 or 710
> I love the 2209 ...and have it in two 710 .... after servicing and adjustment they running very very accurate - from my feeling better than 24xx


By the way, could you tell from looking at that picture what kind of cases are those? Cause I do have two old 119 that I could use if the movement and stem from those would fit them.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Ligavesh said:


> I think I have to send a message to the seller to clear up what kind of movements he has in those watches really... if he can tell at all...
> 
> In the meantime - I thought you couldn't find 24xx movements (or any other movements) anywhere, but I actually found them on komandirskie. com - I don't know why at first it said they were not available...


Let me add a few things to Doc's helpful explanations:

1. To fit 24xx movements into old brass chrome-plated Komandirskie cases (like 341 and 431) you need smaller movement holder rings as the inner diameter of these old brass cases is smaller. So far, I haven't found any source to buy new unused small metal movements holder rings, so I assume they are out of production. The ones I have I took out of old used watches that I mainly bought at Ebay Kleinanzeigen. As you are from Germany, you can take a look there. There are plenty of used old Komandirskies for sale.
It's the same vice versa. To fit 24xx movements taken out of these old cases into amphibia cases (also the 119) you need the larger movement holder ring (plastic or stainless steel, though stainless steel doesn't seem to be available at the moment) and almost always a different crown/stem (as Doc has already pointed out) that has to fit to the case you are planning to fit the movement in. I found that the crown with the "midsize" stem (a tiny bit shorter than the long one) fits perfectly into the 119 case.

2. Beware of the watches from the Ebay auction you linked in post #646. They are most likely cheap Chinese fakes. If you take a close look at the crown, you can see that it is far too small. There is a lot of space between crown and crown guard. On a real Komandirskie the crown fits perfectly between the guards. The dials look strange as well.

3. I stopped buying single movements some time ago. I'd rather recommend to buy a complete watch and sell the parts you don't need. It's far cheaper that way, there are always many different models available (so you don't have to wait if the movement you want is not available at present) and you will build/mod a lot more Vostok watches in the future, I'm sure... ;-)

Hope that helps.

Viele Gruesse aus OWL! ;-)


----------



## Ligavesh

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> Let me add a few things to Doc's helpful explanations:
> 
> 1. To fit 24xx movements into old brass chrome-plated Komandirskie cases (like 341 and 431) you need smaller movement holder rings as the inner diameter of these old brass cases is smaller. So far, I haven't found any source to buy new unused small metal movements holder rings, so I assume they are out of production. The ones I have I took out of old used watches that I mainly bought at Ebay Kleinanzeigen. As you are from Germany, you can take a look there. There are plenty of used old Komandirskies for sale.
> It's the same vice versa. To fit 24xx movements taken out of these old cases into amphibia cases (also the 119) you need the larger movement holder ring (plastic or stainless steel, though stainless steel doesn't seem to be available at the moment) and almost always a different crown/stem (as Doc has already pointed out) that has to fit to the case you are planning to fit the movement in. I found that the crown with the "midsize" stem (a tiny bit shorter than the long one) fits perfectly into the 119 case.
> 
> 2. Beware of the watches from the Ebay auction you linked in post #646. They are most likely cheap Chinese fakes. If you take a close look at the crown, you can see that it is far too small. There is a lot of space between crown and crown guard. On a real Komandirskie the crown fits perfectly between the guards. The dials look strange as well.
> 
> 3. I stopped buying single movements some time ago. I'd rather recommend to buy a complete watch and sell the parts you don't need. It's far cheaper that way, there are always many different models available (so you don't have to wait if the movement you want is not available at present) and you will build/mod a lot more Vostok watches in the future, I'm sure... ;-)
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Viele Gruesse aus OWL! ;-)


Thanks a lot for the tips! Tbh, I never expected there to be Chinese fakes of Komandirskies?! As for the third point - that's a conclusion I came to myself as well - I've managed to find a couple of movements that I'm waiting for - but even if you find a movement, you can't find fhe case you want, or vice versa. And given how cheap the watches are online (a 2416 is almost 70% the price of a new watch), the only logical step is to just buy the whole watch, you're right about that.

Liebe Grüße aus dem Allgäu!


----------



## ben_w

Kotsov said:


> I've one on the way but nor here yet


Did this show up yet @Kotsov ? My 710634 arrived today (after 1.5 months in the post, all but two days of which seemingly just knocking about in Russia!). I like it, but still prefer the crown and bezel on that SE so am thinking of modding this into that. Will obviously replace the stock bracelet, which feels like it's made of crushed coke cans, too. Had intended to use the rubber strap that came on my Seiko SKX007 for this, since its also 22mm, but turns out it's too thick around the spring bars to fit with the Vostok case, so ordered a tropic rubber from CNS. Would still like to see pics of that SE if you got it though!


----------



## Dave51

ben_w said:


> Did this show up yet @Kotsov ? My 710634 arrived today (after 1.5 months in the post, all but two days of which seemingly just knocking about in Russia!). I like it, but still prefer the crown and bezel on that SE so am thinking of modding this into that. Will obviously replace the stock bracelet, which feels like it's made of crushed coke cans, too. Had intended to use the rubber strap that came on my Seiko SKX007 for this, since its also 22mm, but turns out it's too thick around the spring bars to fit with the Vostok case, so ordered a tropic rubber from CNS. Would still like to see pics of that SE if you got it though!
> View attachment 15349901


I think that CNS tropic will be a good call. I just checked out my 22mm CNS tropic strap with my 710 because I have some parts on the way from Russia to make another 710 mod. I think you will like the look.


----------



## jimzilla

I am curious as to how tight you should make the threaded case back ring. Is there a rule of thumb or process?
thank you, James.


----------



## CndRkMt

As tight as you can do it with you fingers without using extra leverage.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> ...how tight you should make the threaded case back ring....


.
James,

I use a case holder / vise and a Jaxa style wrench.
First, I _lightly_ grease both sides of the gasket with silicon grease
I use plumber's silicon grease from the plumbing department of the hardware store. It is made for rubber so it is safe.
I did not grease this gasket in the past but I am now convinced it is good for the gasket since it will move very slightly against the face of the case back mating surface when compressed. The grease also provides extra water resistance.

I grease the ring threads with a standard synthetic grease, such as automotive or bicycle grease. It is metal on metal so lubrication is helpful.
I tighten the ring as far as it will go with the case held tight in a case vise. I am not afraid to use plenty of force.
If it is a new watch case, after a few days I will tighten it again. Usually it will turn a bit more because the threads have 'relaxed'.
I scratch a mark on the ring at the 12:00 position so that in the future if I remove it again, I have a reference and I will tighten the ring to that position again.
The ring and case threads are strong and deep. The rubber gasket is also very strong and does not compress easily so do not be afraid to use force and turn the ring tight.

A case vise is essential. It is difficult to fully tighten a case back when you only hold the case in your hand.

A 2 prong wrench will work as well as a 3 prong wrench such as a Jaxa style. I prefer the Jaxa because it is less prone to slip and it provides more even pressure across a case back or ring as it has 3 points of contact versus 2.
You _must_ push down on the wrench as you turn or it could slip.
.


----------



## Thorto

Hey guys,

I'm looking for a bezel/ceramic insert combo for my 420SE and I'm a bit unsure what would fit. Finding a quality bezel for SKX inserts is no problem, I would buy one from one second closer, Boris or arkustime.

I can't find definite answers for ceramic inserts though. I'm looking for a black polished vintage sub style insert with a red triangle, DWL would be my favorite, but it seems like their inserts don't clear the domed acrylic crystal and might crack during installation.

So, my questions are:

1. Is there any Vostok bezel that takes a DWL ceramic insert without the risk of cracking?
2. Is every ceramic a problem or only DWL? I'm also considering Joot or Namoki.


----------



## JimWharton

What do you all use to set hands? Do you use a hand press, a handheld tool, or something else?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## WindyCityWatch

So I got a bit of a mod project planned (some parts already have and some already ordered) using the Vostok 2426 “GMT” (really just 24 indicator) movement with center seconds and 3 o’clock date window. Any experience with:

1) Compatibility of the taller movement (quoted 6.3 mm excluding hand stem) with standard Amphibian cases (670) in particular? I did purchase a display case back for added “depth” and a metal movement holder. I’d be transplanting from my K-34z 

2) Procuring a vostok compatible “GMT” hand? As of now, my plan is to use a colored arrow seconds hand and mod it as the one I have is not the color I want. 

3) Actual order of operations of assembly for placing the hand stack with 4 hands? Quite familiar with regular hand setting. 

4) Finally, compatibility with a 2414 Komandirskie dial in a 670 case as well as compatibility with 2426 movement. Trying to get it to work with an Amphibian case, or possibly transplanting into 650.

Lots of questions I know, but my research has yet to get me any definitive results with the 2426 movement. 

Thanks in advance Comrades!


In watches I trust


----------



## WindyCityWatch

JimWharton said:


> What do you all use to set hands? Do you use a hand press, a handheld tool, or something else?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I actually use both. I use the hand press (red metal one from eBay) for minute and hour and I use the "stick" ones for Seconds hand.

In watches I trust


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

WindyCityWatch said:


> I actually use both. I use the hand press (red metal one from eBay) for minute and hour and I use the "stick" ones for Seconds hand.


.
+1

The Second hand is sometimes a little difficult and for myself, I need the ability to have more control and to 'feel' when the Second hand is properly set. For this I use simple hard plastic stick - sharpened. Almost anything will do the job on the Seconds Hand. Just use something non-magnetic and preferably plastic that won't scratch.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

WindyCityWatch said:


> So I got a bit of a mod project planned (some parts already have and some already ordered) using the Vostok 2426 "GMT" (really just 24 indicator) movement with center seconds and 3 o'clock date window. Any experience with:
> 
> 1) Compatibility of the taller movement (quoted 6.3 mm excluding hand stem) with standard Amphibian cases (670) in particular?
> 
> - unsure. Hopefully someone with this movement can answer this.
> Did you ask Meranom?
> Send a message to favinov on ebay - he may know
> 
> - 6.3mm: did Meranom quote this ? Exactly where is this measurement taken? From the centre line of the stem?
> 
> I did purchase a display case back for added "depth" and a metal movement holder. I'd be transplanting from my K-34z
> 
> - I don't think the display case back will be necessary to add more 'depth' to make the movement fit the case. I assume all of the extra thickness or height of the 2426 is on the top. Meranom lists the thickness of the 170 and 960 cases (which use the 2426) as 15mm case thickness. This is basically the same for the other cases.
> 
> 2) Procuring a vostok compatible "GMT" hand? As of now, my plan is to use a colored arrow seconds hand and mod it as the one I have is not the color I want.
> 
> - there is no source of Vostok after-market makers of GMT hands that I'm aware of. Hopefully someone here with a GMT movement can measure the diameter of the mounting hole of the GMT hand. Then you can look for hands of non-Vostok movements.
> 
> 3) Actual order of operations of assembly for placing the hand stack with 4 hands? Quite familiar with regular hand setting.
> 
> - no different than setting other hands. The GMT hand is installed on the bottom of the stack.
> 
> 4) Finally, compatibility with a 2414 Komandirskie dial in a 670 case as well as compatibility with 2426 movement. Trying to get it to work with an Amphibian case, or possibly transplanting into 650.
> 
> - yes. That dial will fit the 670 case. I don't know if the 2426 requires a special dial shape. The diameter would be the same but I don't know if the dial is curved differently due to the extra height of the 2426.
> The 2414 dial and 2426 movement will fit the Komandirskie 650, as you already know.
> 
> Lots of questions I know, but my research has yet to get me any definitive results with the 2426 movement.
> 
> Thanks in advance Comrades!
> 
> In watches I trust


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

re: 2426
I will assume that the hand pinions / posts are simply taller than those of 2416 or 2414.
I have a 2426 with NO date. I don't have a 670 case to test but they are the same interior dimensions as the other standard cases. If you need any measurements just ask.

Matt


----------



## jimzilla

I have a question about the screwdriver sizes.
I notice that Bergeon and most others sell standard sets in sizes.......
050,060,080,100,120,140,160,200
but sells the replacement blades in 070,090,130,150,180,220,250,300,
I have not been able to find most of the non standard sizes listed above in the 6899 series screwdriver.
I have been able to find a few of the bigger ones like a 220,250,300 but not the smaller ones.
Why is this?. If you have a 060 does a 070 fit it? just curious, thanks, James.


----------



## WindyCityWatch

Thanks for the detailed reply Matt, much appreciated (long time lurker, only recently finally made an account).

I've done tons of mods, but this is admittingly my first attempt of a Frankenstein one. I have an extra 710 case that I can do a test fit in, but good point about the case back. I know the 2426 with the offset seconds hand is the "normal" height, and can seemingly fit in the 650 case, but it's the center seconds. That has my cause for concern.

komandirskie.com claims it can only fit the K-34 it came with, but don't offer much more info on that front. I got most of my info about the movement from them and not Meranom. And every site I've visited and asked from say that the GMT hand is "Unavailable" or "out of stock" and don't know when they'll have them in again... luckily I have tons of spare hands that I don't mind canabalizing, but thought I'd check with others first to see if I could avoid that 

Once I get everything in, I'll be sure to check back. Thanks again!


----------



## jimzilla

jimzilla said:


> I have a question about the screwdriver sizes.
> I notice that Bergeon and most others sell standard sets in sizes.......
> 050,060,080,100,120,140,160,200
> but sells the replacement blades in 070,090,130,150,180,220,250,300,
> I have not been able to find most of the non standard sizes listed above in the 6899 series screwdriver.
> I have been able to find a few of the bigger ones like a 220,250,300 but not the smaller ones.
> Why is this?. If you have a 060 does a 070 fit it? just curious, thanks, James.


No one has any idea if a 070 screwdriver blade fits a 060 or a 080 screwdriver handle?


----------



## WindyCityWatch

jimzilla said:


> No one has any idea if a 070 screwdriver blade fits a 060 or a 080 screwdriver handle?


Don't have a Bergeon set, so can't speak to that directly. But I would assume that an 070 could "fit" into a 080 handle, you just may have to shim it up or tighten accordingly. Sorry can't be more help~


----------



## sscob1




----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Very nice. I like nautical themes.

Photos of mods should be put in the Vostok Mods thread:
Vostok Mod - The Revival Part II, The re-revivaling


----------



## WindyCityWatch

Update on my 2426 mod...

I was able to fit the 2426 movement with hour and minute hand into the 650 case. Since no one sells GMT hands, I’m attempting to mod some hands to make it fit into the stem. It’s around 1.5-1.7 mm hole. I was able to get a second hands on and fit, however the pointer needs to be adjusted as it brushes at the end. I have another set of hands that don’t have a pointer in the tip and a little shorter stack affect that I’ll try to work with soon. 

I did find an old thread here in WUS about a similar project questions from around 2016, but no one seemed to follow up on if it worked or not. Matt I did see you suggest slimming down the 3mm dome, but I’ll think to try to go the bending seconds hand route. 

Tl;dr movement with minute and hour hand on 2426 (4 hand stack movement) fits into the 650 case. Attempting to mod a seconds and GMT hand.


----------



## Capt.Keith

I am curious. I posted a pic of my vintage Vostok in another forum and they told me about this one. I am super interested in this watch, but am not sure it really is an honest Vostok due to the fact it has English writing on the back. But I really like this watch and it is very affordable. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with these: Here is the link. I am new, hopefully I get this link right, you may have to copy paste....

VOSTOK WATCHES "AMFIBIA REEF"

Hell, that was easy....I really like that watch, do you think it really is water resist to 200 meters?


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Simple answer: Yes. It's a genuine Vostok, the "Reef" is one of Vostok's special series. And every Amphibia/Amfibia is at least 200m water resistant (though hardly anyone dives that deep without a dive computer nowadays, right?). The dealer "vostok-watches24.com" can be recommended. Nice guy, good service.


----------



## Ascalon

I'm awaiting delivery of my latest acquisition.

It appears to be a Soviet era Amphibia in a 341 case with a modern Scuba guy dial (Made in Russia). 

I like the clean appearance of the new dial, but it was only a few yoyos, so no issue that it is clearly a frankenwatch. 

Hopefully it will have a proper 2414 movement, but it also has a contemporary Vostok bracelet, so that's all good. 

Will post pictures as soon as it lands.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Photos and discussion of Amphibias and Komandirskies_ not_ related to repair, modding techniques, part sellers, etc 
- please post in the following threads.

Vostok Mod - The Revival Part II, The re-revivaling

Show your Amphibias! Part 2


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Current* Discount Code* for* Meranom*:

Watchuseek
.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Current* Discount Code* for * Komandirskie.com*

getat5 
.


----------



## jimzilla

*Vostok 2234 Movement ..... 
Does anyone know if the old 2234 movements fit the current
Vostok and Komanderskie cases?
Can I swap out the 2414 or 2409 movements and replace with the 2234 and use modern day handsets?
thank you guys, James.*


----------



## mariomart

As long as the 22xx movement spacer was the right size then it should theoretically fit most older Komandirskie cases, however the Amphibia case (and some modern Komandirskie cases) needs a bigger movement spacer, so you would need to fabricate a suitable spacer. But forget using a Type 350 spacer as that is another size altogether. The other problem you might come across is the depth of some cases can differ which can affect where the dial sits (it may contact the crystal tension ring and apply outward pressure on the crystal).

And I think the second hand pinion is a different size as well as the hour hand hole size. Or is it the other way around? lol

It's mainly a case of trial and error, just like most things Vostok


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Spacer ring must fit of course, so you need to have one build for this purpose, as Mariomart has written before. If you want to use a 24xx dial on a 22xx movement, the dial must be reworked on the backside to fit. Minute and hour hand of a 24xx movement fits on a 22xx movement, second hand doesn't. A Seiko second hand might fit as it has roughly the same diameter, but I never tried, though.


----------



## jimzilla

I have a question on the 2414 movements......
The rotor turns normally in CW rotation but is not wanting to move freely in CCW rotation
Is there a simple fix to free up the CCW rotation of the rotor? thanks, James.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Jim, I assume you are referring to the 2415/16 auto. movement. 2414 is manual only.

This diagram shows the flow of power from the Rotor to the Mainspring for CCW rotation of the Rotor.
If one of the Reversing Wheels fails to unlock, the rotor will be unable to turn in one direction. You can see that the 2nd Reversing Wheel (the wheel on the right) could prevent CCW rotation of the rotor if it fails to unlock.

The red discs represent the jewel discs inside the Reversing Wheels which lock and unlock depending upon the direction of rotation of the Rotor.









_photo: _mine_ - anyone may use this photo freely without permission_

Experienced Vostok repair man and WUS member Odessa200 recommends removing the Reversing Wheels and soaking them in a solvent such as Varsol, kerosene or gasoline for several hours or overnight. I would use a small glass jar with tight fitting lid and give it a good shake to help the solvent flush the inner parts. He also recommends installing them in opposite positions from their original positions. That is, the 1st Wheel (the left wheel in the photo) should be installed in the 2nd Reversing Wheel position. The Wheels are identical and can be installed in either position.

No lubrication is necessary or recommended. If this fails to fix the issue, the failed Reversing Wheel should be replaced.

See also this article:
Vostok 2415 / 2416 Self Winding Function, and Reversing...


----------



## jimzilla

Thanks for chiming in Matt, Yes the movement is a new 2416 from Meranom with the blued screws and polished reversing wheels. Do I remove the one screw on the part that puts the tension on the wheels and then remove the wheels to soak?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> Do I remove the one screw on the part that puts the tension on the wheels and then remove the wheels to soak?


Yes. Remove the Retainer first. DO NOT lose the very tiny Retainer screw !!
Loosen it then grasp it very carefully with tweezers to lift it. Most people are not adept enough with tweezers to do this without losing the screw, so you could use a piece of Rodico or tape to lift the screw and to also set it in place to install the Retainer.

I know the proper method to remove gears / wheels is to grasp them from the side with tweezers, or to gently grab a spoke but that is not always easy with the Reversing Wheels. They are in an awkward position and sit on a post. You could flip the entire movement upside down and they will fall off. I tried grasping them with tweezers from the top but the tips of the tweezers could damage a tooth or poke inside the jewel disc bearing cavity.
You could also use Rodico or tape to lift them and to set them in place to install them.


----------



## jimzilla

Thanks Matt, I will probably attempt it today I will let you know how it goes, thanks again sir best regards, James.


----------



## jimzilla

I went ahead and opened it up and blasted the wheels with some Chemtronics compressed nitrogen and that seemed to free it up a bit. Now I have it on a winder I will check it in the morning to see if it is freed up if not I will work on the wheels,
thanks Matt and best regards.


----------



## jimzilla

Well I had to remove the wheels and soak them in mineral spirits for a few hrs, then I blew them out with my latest
watch bench tool, a Chemtronics carbon dioxide blaster and the rotor is almost working normally I think it will break in the rest of the way. Getting the wheels off and on was not that big a big deal using Rodico and a magnetized screwdriver.
Thank you for the tips Matt, the first thing I would have done is grab the wheels with a tweezer and probably have damaged one of the wheels. Thanks again Matt, best regards, James.


----------



## mariomart

jimzilla said:


> Well I had to remove the wheels and soak them in mineral spirits for a few hrs, then I blew them out with my latest
> watch bench tool, a Chemtronics carbon dioxide blaster and the rotor is almost working normally I think it will break in the rest of the way. Getting the wheels off and on was not that big a big deal using Rodico and a magnetized screwdriver.
> Thank you for the tips Matt, the first thing I would have done is grab the wheels with a tweezer and probably have damaged one of the wheels. Thanks again Matt, best regards, James.


Excellent news, however as a tip NEVER use a magnetised tool near a watch mechanism, it can affect way too many things. Rodico, or even Bluetak would be a safer choice if you think tweezers would be a risk.


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you Mario, You cannot use a slightly magnetized screwdriver if you demagnetize the watch after you finish working on it?


----------



## mariomart

jimzilla said:


> Thank you Mario, You cannot use a slightly magnetized screwdriver if you demagnetize the watch after you finish working on it?


Sure, but it just adds another unnecessary step.


----------



## jimzilla

As always Sensei I bow to the master, thank you sir and have a great day.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Mario has a great amount of experience with Vostok Amphibia and Komandirskies, both new and vintage. He has one of the best collections of Vostoks and much experience working on them. However, he tends to be rather modest in imparting his knowledge to us, but when he does it's always very helpful. 

Those Air Force chaps are more reserved than the Army lads....


----------



## mariomart

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Those Air Force chaps are more reserved than the Army lads....


Thanks for those kind words Matt


----------



## mmaca

Brilliant read, just bought my first (2nd hand) amphibia and love it. However it had an issue when I bought it, was running about 45mins to and hour fast a day, popped the back and could see the hairspring was bent. I have ordered a replacement from Germany but am fairly new to all of this so unsure about attempting the replacement. Absolutely gutted as love the watch. Anyway cracking read, if anyone fancies giving me some pointers I'm all ears (don't buy 2nd might be one I'm guessing) . (I have dropped you a dm Matt). 
Cheers.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

mmaca said:


> .... the hairspring was bent. I have ordered a replacement....


Did you order the Hairspring itself, Hairspring attached to the Balance Wheel or the entire Balance and Balance Cock assembly?

Replacing the Hairsping itself is quite a bit more difficult for the beginner than replacing the entire assembly, which also requires some practice. Replacing the Balance Wheel with Hairspring attached is also often a challenge as the Hairspring stud must be installed into the stud holder. We can help guide you and there are some good photos and videos but you will need to practice before you attempt this. Try removing and installing the old, damaged Hairspring. Do it as often as necessary until you are able to do it properly without the least damage to the Hairspring and the Balance pinions.

If necessary, bring it to a watch repairman with the new part.


----------



## mmaca

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Did you order the Hairspring itself, Hairspring attached to the Balance Wheel or the entire Balance and Balance Cock assembly?
> 
> Replacing the Hairsping itself is quite a bit more difficult for the beginner than replacing the entire assembly, which also requires some practice. We can help guide you and there are some good photos and videos but you will need to practice before you attempt this. Try removing and installing the old, damaged Hairspring. Do it as often as necessary until you are able to do it properly without the least damage to the Hairspring and the Balance pinions.
> 
> If necessary, bring it to a watch repairman with the new part.


Thanks for getting back to me Matt. I ordered the balance wheel and hairspring as one but not the entire balance assembly unfortunately. 
I hadn't thought about removing and reinstalling the broken one to get a feel for it and get used to it, thank you. Also thank you for the offer of help, I feel it will be needed.


----------



## jimzilla

mmaca said:


> Thanks for getting back to me Matt. I ordered the balance wheel and hairspring as one but not the entire balance assembly unfortunately.
> I hadn't thought about removing and reinstalling the broken one to get a feel for it and get used to it, thank you. Also thank you for the offer of help, I feel it will be needed.


I have been looking for the entire assembles but am not able to find any at the moment from
Meranom and the like.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
The entire Balance assembly with the Balance Cock / Bridge is sold by Meranom but it is often not in stock.

It fits all 24xx Vostok movements.

Perhaps if there is a strong demand for these, Meranom will stock them more often.
I suggest to anyone who wants one, send Meranom a message and add the assembly to your Wish List / Waiting List. This will help Meranom to gauge demand.


----------



## rainbowbattlekid

Hey all, sorry if this is off-topic but I wasn't sure if it warrants its own thread. Does anyone know a good place to get a Raketa Big Zero serviced? Mine loses like minutes a day, but I do not feel comfortable trying to do it myself. Or does anyone on the forum do this? I'm in DC, USA fwiw.

Thanks for any help!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
rainbowbattlekid:

Post this question in the main Russian Forum with its own thread.
Also, contact the Raketa company directly.


----------



## OrangeOrange

How much GS Hypo cement are you supposed to use to glue a bezel insert to a bezel? Is a thin line around the bezel enough? Thanks!


----------



## Dodgydruid

It is a very strong adhesive, I have fixed two buckle loops on thick straps and its solid, so yes a thin bead just enough to contact the base of the insert but not so much it swamps over the lip and then you have to clean it all off.

Alternatively 3M bezel strips work perfectly fine, you can get closest size and then put a couple relief cuts into curve and it will fit nicely.


----------



## WindyCityWatch

Dodgydruid said:


> It is a very strong adhesive, I have fixed two buckle loops on thick straps and its solid, so yes a thin bead just enough to contact the base of the insert but not so much it swamps over the lip and then you have to clean it all off.
> 
> Alternatively 3M bezel strips work perfectly fine, you can get closest size and then put a couple relief cuts into curve and it will fit nicely.


Sound advice, I'd second the 3M and recommend the same. I always found the cement finicky to work with.

In watches I trust


----------



## jimzilla

I 3RD the 3M


----------



## 24h

G-S Hypo Cement is easy - I just apply a thin bead all the way around the inside of the bezel in a zig-zag pattern and then press the bezel insert in.
When it dries, you can rub any excess off with your finger.


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## OrangeOrange

A thin line of GS Hypo did not work for me. I have to re glue the bezel insert on. Accidentally knocked my watch on a table and the bezel insert just came out


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## Tekkamaki

OrangeOrange said:


> A thin line of GS Hypo did not work for me. I have to re glue the bezel insert on. Accidentally knocked my watch on a table and the bezel insert just came out
> View attachment 15586961


A smooth bezel would look amazing on that 030935.


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## WindyCityWatch

Tekkamaki said:


> A smooth bezel would look amazing on that 030935.


A blessing in disguise! Half of my Vostoks have smooth bezels.


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## Tekkamaki

WindyCityWatch said:


> A blessing in disguise! Half of my Vostoks have smooth bezels.


I have this same 030935 Vostok in the mail, which smooth bezel would you recommend for this case?
The Baikal Blue bezel would also look good on this.


----------



## obelch

Don't mean to change the subject, but I just found this thread (looking to buy my first Russian watch--I'm especially drawn to the models with 24Hr dials), and wanted to add my appreciation to the original compiler of all of this very helpful information!


----------



## Telemachus_10

This is incredible! I'm just getting into Vostok. Thanks so much.


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## WindyCityWatch

Tekkamaki said:


> I have this same 030935 Vostok in the mail, which smooth bezel would you recommend for this case?
> The Baikal Blue bezel would also look good on this.


Wish I kept track of the part numbers. They're so cheap online I just buy them when the get in stock. K-002/3 are the two I have multiples of. But I couldn't tell you which are which


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## Luis_Leite

WOWWWWWW I was looking at an old watch I got from a Russian friend as a birthday gift (he just told me it was an old watch his father didn't use and that I could find it interesting, as watch collecting was an hobby for me)

Thanks you to your guide I know I am in the posession of a Vostok Amphibia code #920462. The watch is working quite well (oddly enough as it was never serviced). However, I would like to purchase a new bracelet. I am terrible at measuring but I believe the bracelet to be 18mm. As it is no longer an original, do you believe any mesh bracelet will serve as a replacement? Thank you!


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## Matt_Bored_O

Luis_Leite said:


> ... I am in the posession of a Vostok Amphibia code #920462.
> The watch is working quite well (oddly enough as it was never serviced).
> ....do you believe any mesh bracelet will serve as a replacement?


.
Hi Luis, welcome to the Russian Forum.

It is common for a vintage Vostok movement to be in good working condition without having been serviced.

The lug width / bracelet is 18mm.

All common, universal mesh bracelets will fit. Shark mesh is popular with many Vostok owners.

Enjoy your watch. It appears to be an early 1990's model, judging by the dial.
There is nothing better than to receive a Vostok from a Russian friend!

.


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## jimzilla

Hey guy's I have a problem I haven't ran across, Vostok 2416 is not staying wound. when I manually turn the rotor CW direction it is like winding a spring and winds back in the CCW direcion on it's own. and one of the clutching wheels is not working as well. I am going to replace the wheels but what's up with the spring loaded CCW direction, do I need to 
fix / look at something else?


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## Matt_Bored_O

.
Jim,
To diagnose, let's start with this first:

'Clutching' wheel: I assume you refer to the Reversing Wheels.
Which one has a problem ? 1st or 2nd in the photo.
Is it not locking, or is it failing to un-lock?

It appears that the 2nd Reversing Wheel is locking properly in your situation because you say the Mainspring appears to wind when the Rotor is turned CW.









photo: mine - _you may use it freely_
.


----------



## jimzilla

Thanks Matt for chiming in, yes you are correct. I changed both wheels and the watch seems to be back to normal.
The weird thing was when I turned the rotor and it wound the spring I wasn't expecting the spring to unwind and make the rotor move in the opposite direction. After thinking about it I figured it out as the revers wheel was defective and wouldn't lock up the spring would unwind making the rotor move in the opposite direction. I have been having problems with the blued screw 2416 movements Meranom sold 4 or 5 months ago.
I think when they polished the reversing wheels there may be particulate or burs or something affecting them.
It is the 3rd one in a row where the rotor does not turn that great.
Thank you Sir as always it is much appreciated.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Jim,
I suspect Reversing Wheel #2 was failing to un-lock.
Good to see that you fixed it.

_- Is the Click and Click Spring working properly?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------_

Auto. winding system parts that contain a clutch mechanism such as the Reversing Wheels and the 3rd Winding / Ratchet Wheel need to have their internal parts and surfaces polished so that these tiny clutch parts can move freely without binding.
Unfortunately, on lower priced automatics this is not always done to a high degree and it is difficult for the average person to disassemble these clutch mechanisms, polish them, then re-assemble. It is easier and cheap to replace them if defective.
.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> I have been having problems with the blued screw 2416 movements Meranom sold 4 or 5 months ago.
> I think when they polished the reversing wheels there may be particulate or burrs or something affecting them.


That may be the problem.

The Reversing Wheels have very tiny clutch parts that can be easily fouled by tiny particles.


----------



## jimzilla

I think Vostoks Reversing Wheels in general have a bit to be desired, I have a bunch of watches with 2416"s in them
and only a handful work smoothly. I might try an ultrasonic cleaner next time to see what comes out, I am wondering if the ultrasound may chatter the clutching jewels?
As always thanks so much Matt, best regards sir.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.


jimzilla said:


> ..... an ultrasonic cleaner......... I am wondering if the ultrasound may chatter the clutch jewels?


.
That's a good question.
It is now very common for watch reparimen, and many in this forum, to use an ultrasonic cleaner to clean movement parts containing jewels. The only warning I have heard is that if a jewel is already cracked, it may break apart more if put into an ultrasonic. Otherwise, it is safe for jewels in a movement.

However, jewels in a movement are usually held tightly captive and unable to move or vibrate freely.
Vostok Reversing Wheels have jewel discs that are _not_ held captive and are able to move freely within their cavities.
Do they vibrate and chatter in an ultrasonic? No doubt they do to a certain degree.
Is it harmful?

We can at least say that there appear to be _no_ reports of damage to the jewel discs from those people who have repaired and cleaned many Vostok 24xx automatic movements.
Vostok has _not_ given warnings against ultrasonic cleaning.

I myself, and I'm sure many others in this forum, can say that after an ultrasonic bath, we find no apparent damage to the jewel discs or function of the Reversing Wheels.

Can ultrasonic cleaning _repair_ a Reversing Wheel that is prone to seizing?
There are certainly reports that a good _manual_ cleaning in solvent sometimes can fix the problem so I am sure an ultrasonic bath can do the same.
.


----------



## trapper777

Hello

I thought I wasn't a big dive watch guy, but I came across this one, which is a little more minimal, understated, and very much my taste.

Vostok Watch Amphibian Classic 420913

However... it's out of stock. Is the reasonable thing to do to wait and see if it comes into stock, or to buy a model with the same dial that I like a little less (only one in stock)?

Ie, should I expect a restock, or is there a way to find out?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Hi Trapper,

Vostok product stock is highly variable. If you want to wait, you should create a Wait or Wish List with the major vendors such as Meranom and Komandirskie.com. Also use the 'Notify if Available' feature at Meranom.

You could ask them when they expect to receive a particular model but most likely they will not be able to give you a definite answer.

The 420913 at Meranom that you want has a custom 'clean' bezel that can also be bought separately from Meranom and a few others who sell nearly identical versions. The dial is also available separately from Meranom and a few other sellers but may be out of stock. Same for the case. In other words, another option to get a particular combination of case, dial and bezel is to buy the parts separately and ask the seller to assemble them or assemble them yourself.
But, not everyone wants to do this, which is understandable.

The other watch you mention is a good choice. The seller, zenitar, has a great reputation and the 710 case is very popular here in this forum. Many people choose the 420 for their first Amphibia. It has a smaller size versus the other cases and its minimalism and standard shape make it a 'safe' choice for people who aren't sure if they will like the other more unusual cases such as the 710 and 090. However, many of us began with a 420 and were sceptical of the others, then later we bought a 710 or 090. Nearly all of us are now fans of the more unusual and larger cases. A plain or 'clean' bezel on a 710 has a nice minimalist appearance and is very comfortable.


If you buy that 710913 and later find that you do not like the 710 case, then you could buy a 420 case separately and simply transplant the entire dial / movement assembly into it. Very easy to do with no special tools or skills required except a cheap and simple caseback wrench to remove the caseback. That's the fun of Vostok Amphibia and Komandirskies: you can swap parts around. 

Welcome to the Russian forum and keep us updated on your quest.

Matt


----------



## graypilgrimdc

I've been lurking for about a year now. Just chiming in to say that when I began mucking around with modding Vostok divers last year, this forum (and a FB group) have been really invaluable. Cheers!


----------



## trapper777

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Welcome to the Russian forum and keep us updated on your quest.
> 
> Matt


Thank you so much for the informative and thoughtful reply, Matt. Knowing the cases are modular made this an easy decision, I bought the watch on ebay. It won't be here for quite a while, but I'm excited!

Maxwell


----------



## jimzilla

Question on Komanderskie replacement crystals.
I find it VERY VERY difficult to install a new replacement crystal on to the older Komanderskies.
I find the crystal's are bigger when measuring with dial calipers as compared to the existing one that came out of the watch.
I typically use a crystal press to install them. would I have better luck using a crystal lift instead and will it damage the plastic crystal, Is there one crystal lift model that is better for the plastic crystal's than others? 
Thank you in advance for the advice, James.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
I will assume that you know already that the new, modern Komadirskie crystal is re-designed vs. the vintage crystal so that it does not require a tension ring. The modern Komandirskie cases have a different crystal seat to act as a sort of tension ring. The crystal therefore is designed around this and is slightly larger in diameter.

A Crystal Lift may be the best choice to install a _modern_ Komandirskie crystal into a _vintage_ Komandirskie case.

The lift will make very small vertical scratches on the side of the crystal but these should not be noticeable when the bezel is installed.

All crystal lifts are basically the same design: metal arms grip the side of the crystal and are tightened until the crystal diameter becomes slightly smaller as the arms squeeze it and deform it.

However, Amphibia and Komandirskie crystals are thicker than those of most other watch brands. Thick crystals require much force to deform them. You need a very strong crystal lift for Vostok crystals.

Buy only a _strong_ high quality crystal lift.

*The Best Crystal Lifts:

15 - 16 Arm*: Bergeon, vintage Vigor and other professional models have 16 arms (some have 15) vs. 12 arms of the cheaper models

technically, a 15 or 16 arm tool vs. 12 arm, puts less damaging tension or pressure on each individual arm but more _even _or _balanced _pressure across the crystal. These lifts are less prone to damage the arms and the crystal and are a little easier to use.
professional / more expensive models most likely have _stronger_ arms that are made of stronger alloy and machined to better tolerances. This is important.
the wall of the cylindrical body is usually thicker. The body may be made of a stronger alloy. This is very important because the body wall supplies the high force required to squeeze the arms against the crystal as the arms are drawn into the body.










*Crystal Holder / Aligner* : this is the flat, thin tool that is sold with many lifts. This is very helpful to hold the crystal and align the lift properly onto the crystal.








_photo: mine - you may use it freely_


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you Matt as always, I think I will have to purchase one and give it a try and thanks for the tech on how to pick one out, best regards sir, James.


----------



## cyanide19

Hello everyone, 
I can't seem to find an answer to this, and I hope I'm not repeating a problem long solved here  

I have an old Amphibia on 2209 movement which has some really terribly painted aftermarked hands, but when I found replacement hands the seller told me that these are made for 24xx movements and he is not sure if they will fit a 2209 movement.

So, are Amphibia hands interchangeable between 2209 and 2409 movements?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*Installing 24xx Hands Onto 22xx Movement:*​Vostok has not produced the 22xx series of movements for many years. The 24xx movements replaced them and so all new hands available from Vostok and custom producers are made to fit the 24xx movements only. It is increasingly difficult to find replacement hands for the 22xx series so if complete originality of the watch is not important to you, using 24xx hands or hands of other brands may be the best option. There are some quartz hands of various brands available of the correct size or very similar, particularly for the Seconds hand.

Some collectors buy a vintage non-Amphibia/non-Komandirskie Vostok watch for the hands only, to install them on their vintage Amphibia and Komandirskie. This also gives you an extra movement for spare parts. Ensure that the movement is a 22xx series.

Unfortunately, to use 24xx hands on 22xx movements, the Minute and Seconds hands may have to be altered, or re-sized, to make them fit.

*24x hands:* 1.40 x 0.88 x 0.17 mm

*22x hands:* 1.40 x 0.86 x 0.22 mm​
*Hour Hand:*

You can alter the size of the 24xx Hour hand by using a pin vise to squeeze the projecting tube on the hand to make it _smaller_. Many of us have done this with success. This is not usually necessary when installing a 24xx Hour hand onto a 22xx movement because they are the same size. However, some movements have slight differences in dimensions due to manufacturing tolerances and therefore you may have to alter the Hour hand.

If you use hands of other brands, Seiko for example, the Hour hand may have to be altered using a pin vise. Again, many of us have done this with success.

*Minute Hand:*

You _cannot_ use a pin vise to alter the size of the 24xx Minute hand. It is only possible to do this for the Hour hand. The Minute hand does _not_ have a protruding tube that you can grab with a pin vise.

I looked at all the hands I have, and I have many, some are genuine Vostok and many are custom hands from several different producers: all the Minute hands are flat without a protrusion or tube.

You must alter them differently.

2 of the best options:

1. add a little bit of solder to the hole then drill a hole through it with a drill bit that is no larger than 0.20. The solder is soft therefore if the hole is slightly smaller, then you can easily make it larger as required. Each Vostok movement has very slight differences in dimensions due to manufacturing tolerances so sometimes the pinions for the hands are very slightly too large or too small.

2. squeeze the hole of the hand to make the hole slightly smaller. The 22xx Minute hand is only .02 smaller than 24xx Minute hand, therefore you need only to make the hole very slightly smaller. Because the hole is flat with no protrusion, if the end of the hand is squeezed the hole will become slightly oval. This is usually not a problem and it will make the hand fit tighter.
I do this by holding the hand in small pliers and hammer softly the hand at the end only, where the hole is. Put tape on the pliers to prevent scratches to the hand. Test fit the hand and if too tight, open the hole slightly with a needle and hammer.

*Seconds Hand:*

The 24xx Seconds hand is .05 mm smaller than the 22xx Seconds hand.
It is often more difficult to _increase_ the diameter of the 24xx Seconds hand.

You can insert the end of a very thin needle or pin into the tube of this Seconds hand and hammer it very lightly to flare the tube slightly. Grind a needle or pin to make it thin enough. This trick is not guaranteed and the tube can sometimes split if you are not careful or if the pin is too thick. Use vernier calipers and grind the pin to exactly 0.22 mm and perfectly round. Add a bevel to the leading edge or end to allow the pin to insert into the hand tube.

To decrease the size of the tube of the Seconds hand, use a pin vise.

------------------

There are broaching files of small sizes that are used for watch repair and hand fitting. Broaching files and a hand broaching vise are helpful to _enlarge_ the holes of Hour and Minute hands but Seconds hands are more difficult because the hole is so small and is often a 'blind hole' which does not pass through.

---------------------

Custom hands from IgorIV are usually of softer metal and are easier to alter. They are good to practice with also to increase your ability to remove and install hands.
---------------------

Caution: the holes in hands become slightly larger when they are removed and installed several times. They may become too loose after 5-6 installations or more.

---------------------

Remember:


There are some non-Vostok 0.22 mm Seconds hands available if you look for them. They are usually for quartz
the H and M hands: 1.40 and 0.86 mm or very similar size: are available for Seiko, a few other brands, custom Seiko hand producers and un-branded hands sold by watch part suppliers
Any vintage Vostok with a 22xx movement will have the same size hands to fit a vintage Amphibia or Komandirskie using a 22xx movement.
hands without a projecting mounting tube: it is usually easier to make the hole _larger _versus making it smaller. Therefore, such Minute and Hour hands with holes that are slightly smaller than the standard Vostok sizes are easier to alter to fit your Vostok.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Удачи!
Good luck and welcome to the Russian Forum.
.


----------



## cyanide19

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> *Installing 24xx Hands Onto 22xx Movement:*​


Thanks a lot, that's exactly what I needed  The second hand is fine, so I'll just stick to replacement of hour and minute hand.


----------



## trapper777

I'm buying a clean bezel from meranom. Is there anything y'all generally recommend picking up from there while I'm at it? Say, some part that often goes bad or something I'll need if I'm modding my vostok.


----------



## graypilgrimdc

Consider the military adage, 2 is 1 and 1 is none.

Now, don't go overboard with that, but you don't want to have to wait 2-4 months (or pay DHL twice) if you messed up something, like I did with a seconds hand. So in general, think "is this often out of stock, could I use a backup, and would it break the bank to buy an extra?", etc. Especially if you see yourself doing other mods in the future.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

trapper777 said:


> .... I'm buying a clean bezel from meranom.
> Is there anything y'all generally recommend picking up from there while I'm at it?
> some part that often goes bad or something I'll need if I'm modding my vostok.


.
Repair Parts - If in stock:


balance (with bridge is best)
Reversing Wheels (x2)
Reversing Wheel 'Lock' (the small brass retainer)
Reversing Wheel 'Lock' screw (very small and easy to lose)
Third Winding Wheel
gasket set
crystal with tension ring
mainspring
_all _available screws (dial and movement holder screws)
springbars (for some straps the Vostok springbars are too thick, so I buy thinner springbars from the stores where I buy my straps)

Parts for Modding


I like to have both white and black Date wheels of both 3 and 6 date window positions.
crowns of several different styles of the different sizes to fit all case models
hands: black and 'white' (unpainted or chromed): both Amphibia and Komardirskie style.
In the future, you can paint the extra sets of hands any colour you need

any in stock dials you like. Buy them now because once out of stock, you may have to wait a long time to get them. 
it is good to have a small collection of dials for future projects


You _will_ have more Vostok mods in the future, so create a personal stock of parts _now_...
.


----------



## Oskar2905

Hi. Since this topic about amphibias is most popular one and is sticked I'll ask here. If it's wrong one I'm sorry. Ok so to the point  . 

I've recently bought a new amphibia 090956. It's an automatic one of course and I can here sometimes that rotor is spinning very fast like spring loses tension or something like that. Is it normal? One of my reversing wheels looks like worn one. It's scratched on top in a circular pattern. Second one looks like new. Do I have to worry about it? Picture of wheels is in attachment.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Oskar2905 said:


> 1.  I've recently bought a new amphibia 090956. It's an automatic one of course and I can here sometimes that rotor is spinning very fast like spring loses tension or something like that. Is it normal?
> 
> 2. One of my reversing wheels looks like worn one. It's scratched on top in a circular pattern.


.
*1.* It is difficult to determine if there is a problem or what the problem may be. The description you provide is vague.
If a Reversing Wheel fails to lock, either permanently or intermittently, the Rotor could spin rapidly. The Mainspring could unwind and the watch will lose power and possibly stop.
This is not normal.

If you wind it fully by hand, does this problem occur?
What is the power reserve when you wear it? A Vostok normally runs about 40 hrs. when fully wound. Wind it fully then do not wear it. Note the number of hours it ran until it stopped.
if the problem is intermittent, you may not see the problem when you test.

The watch is new, so the best recommendation is to return it.

If you want to try to fix it, here are several repairs to try:


switch the position of the Reversing Wheels. Sometimes this cures a problem with a Reversing Wheel that fails to unlock or fails to lock.
replace one Reversing Wheel with a new wheel or a wheel that is known to be good. If problem remains, the problem may be the other wheel. Replace it.
clean the Reversing Wheels by soaking and agitating in a solvent such as lighter fluid, gasoline or alcohol. Ultra-sonic cleaners are excellent but you must follow the directions concerning the use of flammable liquids.

*2.* Circular scratches on the Reversing Wheels is normal and is not a symptom of damage.
The retainer fingers are designed to hold the wheels and prevent them from lifting up. As the wheels turn, the fingers will rub on the top of each wheel. This creates a cicular wear pattern.
However, heavy scratching on one wheel only is not uncommon but could be a symptom of a problem.

If one of the fingers of the Reversing Wheels Retainer is touching a wheel with more force than the other finger, then an uneven wear pattern can develop: one wheel will have more scratches than the other.

Uneven retainer wear patterns are usually caused by:

one of the retainer fingers is pressing too forcefully on a wheel
one of the retainer fingers is not pressing enough or it is not touching
And: if there is a problem causing the wheels to spin rapidly, then this uneven wear pattern will become accelerated and very obvious.









The difference between the two wheels in the photo is greater than usual, especially for a new movement.
I suspect that if there is a Reversing Wheel problem in your movement, then this is the primary cause of this very noticeable difference in the scratch patterns on the wheels. Also, the retainer fingers appear to be uneven: one finger is pressing too much and the other finger is not contacting the wheel. If a Rotor regularly spins rapidly, when for example a Reversing Wheel fails to lock, then the Reversing Wheels could spin rapidly also. This rapid spinning could cause wear marks more rapidly than normal.

In the photo, it appears that the retainer finger on the 2nd Reversing Wheel (the right wheel) is not touching the wheel yet the other finger appears to be pressing against the 1st wheel too much. This alone could explain the difference of the wear pattern. However, because there may also be a problem that forces the wheels to spin rapidly, the wear from the retainer against the 1st wheel is now accelerated.

Retainer Fingers:

remove the retainer
bend very carefully the fingers so that they both gently touch the wheels with equal pressure
it is best to remove the retainer to bend or push a finger _down _ 
you can lift _up_ a finger without removing the retainer 

** Be careful: the retainer screw is very small and easy to lose. New screws and retainers are available from Meranom
.
.
My advice to all Vostok automatic owners is to buy several new Reversing Wheels as replacements for any possible problems in the future. Buy a Retainer and a Retainer screw also. The parts are cheap to buy and are easy for any novice to replace and most watch repair men will do it for you if you have the parts already.
.
.
Welcome to the forum. Good luck with the watch.
.


----------



## Oskar2905

Matt_Bored_O said:


> What is the power reserve when you wear it? A Vostok normally runs about 40 hrs. when fully wound. Wind it fully then do not wear it. Note the number of hours it ran until it stopped.


I've winded it fully (I can feel some resistance so will stop there). That will tell me true power reserve I hope  .


Matt_Bored_O said:


> If you wind it fully by hand, does this problem occur?


Yes. It occured when I winded it manually.

Also I've tried to (as much as possible without taking it apart) bend that one retainer finger.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Oskar2905 said:


> Yes. It occurs when I wind it manually.
> 
> Also I've tried to (as much as possible without taking it apart) bend that one retainer finger.


.
1. Could you observe the movement without the back cover and wind it manually?
- does the rotor spin rapidly ?

2. Is the Retainer finger for the 2nd Reversing Wheel (the wheel on the right) so high from the wheel that it allows the wheel to lift up and lose contact with the 1st Reversing Wheel - when the Mainspring is wound and when / if the Rotor spins rapidly?

.


----------



## Oskar2905

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Could you observe the movement without the back cover and wind it manually?
> - does the rotor spin rapidly ?


I've bended the retainer finger before that full wind I did in previous post and it did not happen. It happened before the bend.



Matt_Bored_O said:


> 2. Is the Retainer finger for the 2nd Reversing Wheel (the wheel on the right) so high from the wheel that it allows the wheel to lift up and lose contact with the 1st Reversing Wheel - when the Mainspring is wound and when / if the Rotor spins rapidly?


I think it was. I've bended it so it is touching wheel nicely now.


----------



## Oskar2905

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Welcome to the forum. Good luck with the watch.


Thank you very much


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Oskar2905 said:


> I've bended the retainer finger before that full wind I did in previous post and it did not happen. It happened before the bend.
> 
> I think it was. I've bended it so it is touching wheel nicely now.


.
Is the entire rotor / winding problem fixed ?
I am a little confused.
.


----------



## Oskar2905

Ok. So...watch have ran for 41h. I've fixed retainer finger before I winded it manually  . It's acting normally now, rotor is not spinning like crazy. I hope it was just this not bended retainer finger. I will wear it for few days and see if it's alright now  . Thanks a lot for your help and time  .


----------



## Rimmed762

trapper777 said:


> I'm buying a clean bezel from meranom. Is there anything y'all generally recommend picking up from there while I'm at it? Say, some part that often goes bad or something I'll need if I'm modding my vostok.


Everything mentioned can (and most likely will) be needed in future. But do not forget bezel springs. If this is your first bezel job, you might wreck one easily. It can be straightened, yes, but it is nicer to take new from box and fix the spring later.


----------



## VWatchie

It was a long time ago since I posted anything on WUS. These days I mostly hang out at watchrepairtalk.com. It's not quite as fun and friendly as WUS, but it's more focused on service and repair and that is my main interest. Anyway, browsing eBay, I happened to stumble over this 3D printed movement holder specifically made for the Vostok 2414. The holder has a supporting screw for the friction spring pressing against the sweep seconds hand pinion (the famous "dogleg" spring) which should make it a lot easier the fit the seconds hand (_"has a 4 mm supporting screw in its center to support the sweep second hand and its brass blade"_). I haven't yet tried this movement holder but I'll place an order for it today and I'll try to remember to report back on it. Although the listing doesn't state it, I would expect this holder to work with the 2409 calibre as well.


----------



## VWatchie

Matt_Bored_O said:


> A Crystal Lift may be the best choice to install a _modern_ Komandirskie crystal into a _vintage_ Komandirskie case.


Thank you for this excellent illustrated write-up, Matt. I was unaware of this (modern crystal, vintage case) so very valuable info. I would assume that a good crystal press (like the one I show here) would be the recommended method for typical situations, i.e. modern crystal/modern case and vintage crystal/vintage case? As I understand it a crystal lift is not considered best practice for tension ring crystals.


----------



## VWatchie

jimzilla said:


> I think Vostoks Reversing Wheels in general have a bit to be desired, I have a bunch of watches with 2416"s in them
> and only a handful work smoothly.


I don't believe the cleaning method in itself is critical. An ultrasonic cleaner should be fine as long as it's doing the job well enough. However, in my experience, the reversing wheels need to be correctly lubricated to perform as efficiently as they are designed to do. For this, I use ETA Lubeta V105 and it has been working very well. The reversing wheels for the ETA 2824.2 (and similar ETA calibres) and the Vostok 2416 are similar in design. As a matter of fact, in my experience, the 2416 calibre has some of the best automatic winding I've come across. Even if I have a lazy week, mostly just working in front of my computer, the winding never fails me. So, make sure to correctly lubricate the reversing wheels and they should be performing perfectly.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

VWatchie said:


> I don't believe the cleaning method in itself is critical.
> An ultrasonic cleaner should be fine as long as it's doing the job well enough.
> However, in my experience, the reversing wheels need to be correctly lubricated....


.
I agree that the cleaning of the Reversing Wheels is perhaps not as necessary as we may believe.
Vostok does not lubricate them so there should be no old oil residue to affect them.
However, we do know that there are a few reports of fine metal particles found inside a few Reversing Wheels. It is believed that these may be remnants of the manufacturing process. A good cleaning, especially ultrasonic, should remove these particles.

*Lubrication or No Lubrication of the Reversing Wheels? *

This is a growing topic with opinions on both sides.

Recently there have been discussions in this forum and elsewhere of this issue. After reading the excellent opinions of some of the most experienced Vostok enthusiasts, including VWatchie, and discussing this with others such as ETA repairmen, I now believe that it is best to lubricate Vostok 24xx automatic Reversing Wheels.
.


----------



## Fahoo Forays

A few quick questions for anyone who's generous enough to reply. Thanks in advance!

1. How difficult is it in practice to learn to swap a movement? I own five working Vostoks and one damaged one where I'd like to replace the movement with a simpler version (the watch in question is a 170863, shown below). I just want to select my own (2416, I guess- it'll be a 3-hander regardless) movement, no-date dial and hands and get hold of the proper tools and do this. I'm good with small objects and with tools. I'm careful and tedious when called on to be. I can follow a YouTube video, and I know when to ask for advice from experts. My concern is that I'll have one shot to get this right, and getting it wrong will cost me the whole movement or something. Also, I want to do this with the parts I can get shipped from the USA. I don't want to wait 3-4 weeks for something to arrive from overseas. I'm willing to buy a whole watch to get the movement, dial and hands, especially if I can sell the case later for a few bucks. But I don't know if I'll need to buy the same case type to make sure I get a crown stem of the correct length.

There was an issue with the hour hand loosening some kind of way and not moving, once I tried to set the date by going 8-12-8-12, so I'm gonna scrap the whole thing and refill the case. I know I'm not capable at this point of disassembling a movement and repairing it. I don't know if I'll need a new crown stem or not- it might be stripped, if it's threaded or notched or something (forgive any possible incorrect terminology). FWIW, the second and minute hands still work fine.

Here's an image of the same watch I want to replace the movement in:









2. What tools must I own? I'm prepared to spend on a set that won't break or fail, but not for a set that an actual watchmaker would treasure for life. I'd like some brand names, rather than prices, because I have no idea what these tools should cost.

3. Are there any points where I can stop and take a break, or points that must be completed in one step before I can pause? what kind of timeframe should I expect?


----------



## jimzilla

I have a question comrades. I purchased my first 2214 add found the balance wheel to be different than what I am used too.
Please see pic and tell me if this is normal. thank you in advance, James.


----------



## MattBrace

jimzilla said:


> I have a question comrades. I purchased my first 2214 add found the balance wheel to be different than what I am used too.
> Please see pic and tell me if this is normal. thank you in advance, James.


Correct, just an early movement.

Cheers...


----------



## Fahoo Forays

Fahoo Forays said:


> A few quick questions for anyone who's generous enough to reply. Thanks in advance!
> 
> 1. How difficult is it in practice to learn to swap a movement? I own five working Vostoks and one damaged one where I'd like to replace the movement with a simpler version (the watch in question is a 170863, shown below). I just want to select my own (2416, I guess- it'll be a 3-hander regardless) movement, no-date dial and hands and get hold of the proper tools and do this. I'm good with small objects and with tools. I'm careful and tedious when called on to be. I can follow a YouTube video, and I know when to ask for advice from experts. My concern is that I'll have one shot to get this right, and getting it wrong will cost me the whole movement or something. Also, I want to do this with the parts I can get shipped from the USA. I don't want to wait 3-4 weeks for something to arrive from overseas. I'm willing to buy a whole watch to get the movement, dial and hands, especially if I can sell the case later for a few bucks. But I don't know if I'll need to buy the same case type to make sure I get a crown stem of the correct length.
> 
> There was an issue with the hour hand loosening some kind of way and not moving, once I tried to set the date by going 8-12-8-12, so I'm gonna scrap the whole thing and refill the case. I know I'm not capable at this point of disassembling a movement and repairing it. I don't know if I'll need a new crown stem or not- it might be stripped, if it's threaded or notched or something (forgive any possible incorrect terminology). FWIW, the second and minute hands still work fine.
> 
> Here's an image of the same watch I want to replace the movement in:
> View attachment 15817130
> 
> 
> 2. What tools must I own? I'm prepared to spend on a set that won't break or fail, but not for a set that an actual watchmaker would treasure for life. I'd like some brand names, rather than prices, because I have no idea what these tools should cost.
> 
> 3. Are there any points where I can stop and take a break, or points that must be completed in one step before I can pause? what kind of timeframe should I expect?


Nothing? Come on, comrades!


----------



## jimzilla

MattBrace said:


> Correct, just an early movement.
> 
> Cheers...


I have not seen the spring go downhill like that to the main windings, thanks Matt.


----------



## jimzilla

Fahoo Forays said:


> Nothing? Come on, comrades!


I am not an expert but if it is a standard case you can install a 2414, 2415, 2416 without much problem.
As I said I am not an expert talk to one here, I am sure someone will chime in, best regards comrade, James.


----------



## Fahoo Forays

jimzilla said:


> I am not an expert but if it is a standard case you can install a 2414, 2415, 2416 without much problem.
> As I said I am not an expert talk to one here, I am sure someone will chime in, best regards comrade, James.


Thanks! I hope so...


----------



## jimzilla

Check this out...... This is basically how it is done it will give you some overview.

Complete Vostok 'Dress Diver' Mods! Hands, Dial, Crown, Bezel, Ceramic Insert & Strap! - YouTube


----------



## jimzilla

Just for the record the guy in the video is a wee bit of a hack, but you get the idea, one thing I can tell you is when you buy your screw drivers, tweezers, hand pushers and Presto hand puller buy the good ones or you will buy the better ones after you have ruined the watch!
best regards comrade Fahoo Forays.


----------



## WindyCityWatch

Fahoo Forays said:


> A few quick questions for anyone who's generous enough to reply. Thanks in advance!
> 
> 1. How difficult is it in practice to learn to swap a movement? I own five working Vostoks and one damaged one where I'd like to replace the movement with a simpler version (the watch in question is a 170863, shown below). I just want to select my own (2416, I guess- it'll be a 3-hander regardless) movement, no-date dial and hands and get hold of the proper tools and do this. I'm good with small objects and with tools. I'm careful and tedious when called on to be. I can follow a YouTube video, and I know when to ask for advice from experts. My concern is that I'll have one shot to get this right, and getting it wrong will cost me the whole movement or something. Also, I want to do this with the parts I can get shipped from the USA. I don't want to wait 3-4 weeks for something to arrive from overseas. I'm willing to buy a whole watch to get the movement, dial and hands, especially if I can sell the case later for a few bucks. But I don't know if I'll need to buy the same case type to make sure I get a crown stem of the correct length.
> 
> There was an issue with the hour hand loosening some kind of way and not moving, once I tried to set the date by going 8-12-8-12, so I'm gonna scrap the whole thing and refill the case. I know I'm not capable at this point of disassembling a movement and repairing it. I don't know if I'll need a new crown stem or not- it might be stripped, if it's threaded or notched or something (forgive any possible incorrect terminology). FWIW, the second and minute hands still work fine.
> 
> Here's an image of the same watch I want to replace the movement in:
> View attachment 15817130
> 
> 
> 2. What tools must I own? I'm prepared to spend on a set that won't break or fail, but not for a set that an actual watchmaker would treasure for life. I'd like some brand names, rather than prices, because I have no idea what these tools should cost.
> 
> 3. Are there any points where I can stop and take a break, or points that must be completed in one step before I can pause? what kind of timeframe should I expect?


So last summer I put a 2426 movement into a 670 case, and used the standard movement holder for the 670. The 2426 btw is the 4 hander + date (center 24 hour hand). So I essentially did the opposite of you... you'll have the opposite problem I had, ie you'll be good on the hand stack height within the case.

As for hand removal and putting on, if you do re put on the 24 hour hand be VERY careful about the pinion. The hand at least on my 2426 needed to be pressed further down than the hour hand usually is and I mucked up the seconds pinion. But since you're taking off the 2416 and replacing the movement with a standard 3 hander, you should be fine.

For my parts I bought the Komandriskie watch on eBay and the GMT hand from esslinger (ship from NY I believe) but had to buy the movement from Russia. If you're doing a common movement, Amazon has the pieces if you're willing to pay the markup. My biggest issue was the date wheel swap. Don't recommend a beginner do that... (typical 2426 came with white date wheel).

I've been meaning to do my write up in this thread for my "Franken-Batman" as a follow up, as I also reached out to the community for advice on my project. So, here's my half hearted attempt 

PS lint under dial and no seconds hand... I didn't say it was 100% successful


----------



## oa.design.werke

Hey guys, I posted this question in the "affordable watches" forum, I didn't realize there was a Russian watch forum my apologies.

I am in the process of building 2 different Amphibias, one is brand new coming in the mail, so no problems with that movement.

The second one, however, is one of my first Vostok builds. In my carelessness I lost the little piece that goes under the balance, the shim. A forum member (NOTSHARP, I think) posted a pic, it looks like this:










Can anyone direct me where to get one of these?? I have a new balance on the way but until I have the shim the watch won't run properly. The watch I am working on is a 420 case with 2416b movement (recent construction)

Thanks for any help guys!


----------



## SinanjuStein

oa.design.werke said:


> Hey guys, I posted this question in the "affordable watches" forum, I didn't realize there was a Russian watch forum my apologies.
> 
> I am in the process of building 2 different Amphibias, one is brand new coming in the mail, so no problems with that movement.
> 
> The second one, however, is one of my first Vostok builds. In my carelessness I lost the little piece that goes under the balance, the shim. A forum member (NOTSHARP, I think) posted a pic, it looks like this:
> 
> Can anyone direct me where to get one of these?? I have a new balance on the way but until I have the shim the watch won't run properly. The watch I am working on is a 420 case with 2416b movement (recent construction)
> 
> Thanks for any help guys!


Check an eBay user called Werk24watches, on his 2414A movement parts he has the same part labeled as minute wheel cover plate.


----------



## oa.design.werke

Man, how can anyone ask for a better answer than that? Thanks for the prompt reply. 

In notsharp's, post he mentions different sizes, do you think this will be an issue? I was under the impression almost all of the newer Amphibia's use the same shim. At $7 i'm just going to buy one from Werk24 and try it out. 

Thanks again


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

oa.design.werke said:


> In notsharp's, post he mentions *different sizes, do you think this will be an issue? *


.

* Balance Cock Shim*​

Vostok uses shims of different thicknesses for all their 24xx movements
each movement must have a slight amount of space or 'play' between the Balance Pinion and the Balance Jewels
when the movements are manufactured, this space is slightly different for each movement due to less than perfect machining tolerances
this space is often manufactured too small to allow the Balance to move freely
a shim lifts up the Balance Cock to create more space to allow the Balance to move freely
the thickness of the shim determines the amount of space or play
Vostok assemlers choose a specific shim thickness to create the _optimal_ amount of space to allow the Balance to move freely -- but not excessively loose or too tight
excessive or insufficient space or play for the Balance will cause premature wear, damage, and timing problems
a shim that is too thin could cause the Cock to act as a clamp on the Balance and completely prevent it turning. The jewels and pinion could be damaged.


the thickness of the shim is therefore very important and must be matched carefully to each movement









photo: NOTSHARP

*Shims may be stacked, one on top of the other, to create the correct thickness. *​
If a shim has been lost and you do not know its thickness, it is best to install a shim of the _largest_ thickness available and if necessary (which is most likely), grind it thinner. By this you will have control over the thickness and you will be able to customise it to the movement. It is important to have the correct thickness.

*Grinding / Thinning a Shim:*

Attach sandpaper to a very flat surface. Attach the shim to a stiff and flat surface or tool using double sided tape, or something else that is thin and flat with grip such as silicon rubber. This will hold the shim and sandpaper flat against each other as you grind the shim to make it thinner.

Ideally, you want a shim that will create the perfect amount of space for the Balance to just move freely but not_ excessively_ free.

To give yourself a guide: if you have another Vostok movement, you can grab the Balance carefully with tweezers and judge how loose it feels within its jewels. Carefully move it up and down and side to side. Note how it moves - That is how a Balance assembly with proper shim thickness should move and feel.
.
----------------------------------------

If necessary, a shim can be made from a thin sheet of brass, tin or aluminum.

A shim does _not _have to be shaped exactly as the original. It is only important that it does not protrude from the Balance Cock such that it interferes with the function of any other part. Also, the shim must allow the alignment pegs and screw of the Cock to pass through it.

It's just a thin piece of metal; it doesn't have to be perfect but its thickness MUST be equal across its entire area. In other words, it must be as _flat_ and level as possible, without high spots and not sloping. If it is not flat, it could cause the Balance Cock to be slightly angled and this could make the Balance jewel slightly angled in relation to the Balance pinion - causing problems.

A sharp utility or hobby knife can be used to create a shim.
Scissors are not accurate and they will make thin metal curl and bend.

Place the metal sheet onto a hard and flat surface.
Simply score the outline of the Balance Cock onto the metal sheet. Drill holes or score outlines into it which align with the alignment pegs and screw of the Cock. Continue to score the lines over and over until the knife cuts through entirely. Use sandpaper or a small file to clean the edges and remove burrs. Remove ALL particles and burrs from the shim or they may fall into the movement and cause damage.

If necessary, grind it thinner until the proper thickness is achieved.

----------------------------------

*Sources of thin metal:*


hobby supply shops have small sheets of thin metal
aluminum duct parts at the hardware store
automotive 'Feeler' gauges, used for valve clearance adjustment, are a perfect source of thin metal in many different thicknessses - perhaps the exact thickness you require
---------------------------------
.


----------



## oa.design.werke

Thanks Matt, i'm hoping the one I ordered is the right one. I'll sand it down if need be.


----------



## VWatchie

jimzilla said:


> Please see pic and tell me if this is normal.


No, it isn't "normal". It's a Breguet style hairspring which is quite sophisticated. Surprisingly, the Russians use them quite a bit so I'm pretty sure it is the correct style of hairspring for that calibre. Congrats!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*Movement Holder for 24xx Vostok Movements*

If you like to mod your Amphibia or Komandirskie by changing dials and hands
- _you need a movement holder_
If you want to repair or perform any type of maintenance to a 24xx Vostok movement
- _you need a movement holder_​
A standard, universal movement holder is good and very helpful but they lack an important feature: _they do not have a support for the Seconds Hand pinion spring of the 24xx Vostok movement._









2409A Vostok movement
_photo: Meranom_









Bergeon #4040
- excellent holder but no support pin for Seconds Hand pinion

It is very important to support the Seconds Hand pinion when installing a Seconds Hand.​
When you install the Seconds Hand, you must push it down onto the Seconds Hand pinion. This forces the pinion down into its cavity (ie. the inside of the Cannon Pinion that carries the Minute Hand). The other end of the pinion will push against the pinion spring. If there is no support for the spring to prevent it moving too far, the pinion will be pushed too deep into the Cannon Pinion.
You will not be able to install the Seconds Hand or seat it fully. It will either not seat onto the pinion or it will only seat partially, making it loose.

24xx manual movements, such as 2414 and 2409, must _always_ have Second Hands pinion support.​
 24xx Auto. movements:

The automatic models are able to use the automatic winding bridge as a support -- but sometimes you may need to remove this bridge or you may want to convert an auto. to a manual winding movement by removing this bridge. In such instances you must always use an external support for the Seconds Hand pinion.

So, *for ALL 24xx Vostok movements it is best to buy or make a movement holder that has a support pin *​
The holder shown below may be the most complete and feature rich holder that has been produced for the 24xx Vostok models.

I have ordered one for myself and I will post a short review when I receive it.
I will also review a _Matt Brace_ Vostok movement holder which is very similar but also adds support for vintage 22xx Vostok movements.









photos: _Murphy Manufacturing_

For more information of this particular holder: Murphy Manufacturing Co., Inc.
_.
._


----------



## MattBrace

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> *Movement Holder for 24xx Vostok Movements*
> 
> If you like to mod your Amphibia or Komandirskie by changing dials and hands
> - _you need a movement holder_
> If you want to repair or perform any type of maintenance to a 24xx Vostok movement
> - _you need a movement holder_​
> A standard, universal movement holder is good and very helpful but they lack an important feature: _they do not have a support for the Seconds Hand pinion spring of the 24xx Vostok movement._
> 
> View attachment 15864740
> 
> 2409A Vostok movement
> _photo: Meranom_
> 
> View attachment 15868425
> 
> Bergeon #4040
> - excellent holder but no support pin for Seconds Hand pinion
> 
> It is very important to support the Seconds Hand pinion when installing a Seconds Hand.​
> When you install the Seconds Hand, you must push it down onto the Seconds Hand pinion. This forces the pinion down into its cavity (ie. the inside of the Cannon Pinion that carries the Minute Hand). The other end of the pinion will push against the pinion spring. If there is no support for the spring to prevent it moving too far, the pinion will be pushed too deep into the Cannon Pinion.
> You will not be able to install the Seconds Hand or seat it fully. It will either not seat onto the pinion or it will only seat partially, making it loose.
> 
> 24xx manual movements, such as 2414 and 2409, must _always_ have Second Hands pinion support.​
> 24xx Auto. movements:
> 
> The automatic models are able to use the automatic winding bridge as a support -- but sometimes you may need to remove this bridge or you may want to convert an auto. to a manual winding movement by removing this bridge. In such instances you must always use an external support for the Seconds Hand pinion.
> 
> So, *for ALL 24xx Vostok movements it is best to buy or make a movement holder that has a support pin *​
> The holder shown below may be the most complete and feature rich holder that has been produced for the 24xx Vostok models.
> 
> I have ordered one for myself and I will post a short review when I receive it.
> I will also review a _Matt Brace_ Vostok movement holder which is very similar but also adds support for vintage 22xx Vostok movements.
> 
> View attachment 15868071
> 
> photos: _Murphy Manufacturing_
> 
> For more information of this particular holder: Murphy Manufacturing Co., Inc.
> _.
> ._


I'm going to be reviewed, it's like being back at school again! The Murphy manufacturing holder is a nice peice of kit.

Cheers...


----------



## jimzilla

I have one and it works nicely.


----------



## mrekg123

Apologies if this has been answered before. 

I was breaking rock with a pickaxe and had my 2415/090913 on the wrist. After a few hours I heard a rattling sound, and 30 minutes later the watch stopped. Got the caseback off and the rotor had come loose along with the "bearing assembly" that I assume goes into the center of the rotor. The screw retaining it all had wedged beside the hairspring and stopped the movement, and the ball bearings were all over the movement itself, with the rotor totally detached obviously.

Questions:
1. How many ball bearings are there supposed to be? I found four so far, but it looks like the bearing assembly has "slots" for six. 
2. How to prevent this from happening again, other than refraining from breaking bedrock? Loctite? Lacquer in the screw threads?

Thank you


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*24xx Automatic: Rotor Loose / Bearing Assembly Damaged*​
Symptoms:


sudden rattling noise as you move or shake the watch
watch stops intermittently or permanently
the power reserve suddenly drops by a large amount or is lost completely

What to Do:


DO NOT wear the watch: you could cause damage to the movement
bring it to a watch repair shop
repair it yourself: it is not difficult. A pair of tweezers and a small screwdriver is usually all you need


if the Rotor bearing assembly is not damaged or detached, you can simply re-install the Rotor
find the Retaining Screw
find ALL the ball bearings if they have become dislodged

If the tiny ball bearings have become loose inside the movement / case:
you MUST find them all to ensure they do not damage or stop the movement.​
- If the Hairspring is bent by a loose ball or by a detached Rotor, it is easier for most people to replace the entire Balance, preferably with the Balance Cock attached as an entire assembly
-- Hairspring damage does not appear to be a common occurence
-- you will know if it is damaged because the Balance could either stop completely or the accuracy could change suddenly and often quite noticeably

* if you suspect Hairspring or other movement part damage: post to the forum: clear photos or video with a clear and detailed description of the problem. Don't worry, we'll help you solve the problem and guide the repair

------------------------

1. the rotor has Six _tiny_ Ball Bearings in the bearing assembly

2. First: you should always tighten the Rotor Retaining Screw on any new Vostok.
Sometimes it appears they do not come from the factory tight enough.

Check the screw each time you remove the caseback. Tighten when necessary.
_
Loctite_ is used by some folks to keep the screw tight.

Caution: you must ensure that NO loctite is squeezed out of the screw hole or it could fall onto the movement and foul it.
Best method for loctite on the rotor screw: only apply loctite to the last few threads at the tip. ONLY on the threads and not on the face of the screw tip. Use only a very _small _amount. Magnification makes it easier. Use tweezers: _lightly / gently_ grip the screw underneath the head. This is the methold all watch repair men use to hold screws. Squeezing tweezers too hard on a screw is the #1 cause of screws shooting across the room.

_Lacquer_ or glue as a screw lock: NO.
- it can crack and flake and fall into the movement or it will lock the screw permanently and you will not be able to remove it without damage

------------------------

If the rotor is loose or has detached, the bearing assembly may also be damaged or may also be detached from the Rotor. The Bearing Assembly is pressed into a hole in the Rotor, usually tightly, so normally the outer ring or outer 'race' will remain in the Rotor if the inner 'race' becomes dislodged.

If the Bearing Assembly (usually only the inner portion) is partially or fully detached from the Rotor or if it is dragging with too much resistance, I suspect that what sometimes occurs is that if the screw becomes loose, this allows the rotor to tilt. Then the screw head, now protruding slightly, could act as a lever to pry out the bearing assembly.
Usually, only the inner sleeve or 'race' is loosened or dislodged. This can cause the tiny ball bearings to become loose and fall into the movement.

------------------------
New Rotors can be purchased at Meranom and other sellers that sell Vostok parts.










_photo: mine (anyone may use it freely)_
.


----------



## mrekg123

Fantastic reply, thank you.

And thank you for the superb photo - unfortunately my bearing assembly and rotor are separated, and reinserting them with all bearings in place is probably testing the limits of my skill level. After all this is the first caseback I've actually taken off. 

The deciding factor is that I notice some very tiny metal flakes, more like powder really, and the fact that I foolishly kept hammering away after the rattling sound started for several more hours. I think in one way or another I've probably destroyed this movement beyond the limits of my diagnosis and repair and will have to keep it for spares, or as a movement to practice repairs on further down the line when I have more tools.


I will use a bit of Loctite on the rotor screw on my remaining Amphibia watches (which I otherwise love so far), recommend blue or green?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Metal particles or powder is not good. 
I agree, you should replace the entire movement and use it as a source of parts BUT, if there are metal particles or powder, then most likely some particles have become lodged inside a jewel or another part. You _must_ disassemble and clean the entire movement if you want to use the parts. You don't have to lubricate it if you don't want to because you can lubricate the parts when you install them in other movements.
Now is a good opportunity to learn how to do all this....you have nothing to lose.

Loctite: Blue is best.
.
Welcome to the forum.
Matt


----------



## oa.design.werke

Meranom (Dimitri) finally got the 24XX movements with the blued screws and PNP rotors in stock! 

I immediately grabbed one along with a stainless crown. Can't wait to install these bad boys and really put that exhibition glass back to use!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
*Movement Stopping: 
A Broken Screw*
​A Vostok 2414 movement stopped suddenly.

I discovered a broken movement holder screw.
The screw head was broken in half. It had split apart. The loose piece fell into the movement inside the Pallet Fork area. I removed it and removed several of the parts to look for damage but found none. The watch now runs perfectly again.

Perhaps the screw was tightened too much and it was weakened or began to split, but it did not split apart completely until sometime after the watch was fully assembled.

It is best to try to tighten the holder screws so that the heads are oriented as in the photo. 
If only one side or lobe of the screw head contacts the holder, this puts more stress on one side of the head. The holder can act as a lever that stresses the screw head. This could weaken the head or cause it to split. 
This particlular screw was oriented incorrectly with only one side of the head pressed against the holder. It was this side or lobe of the head which broke.

Do Not overtighten these screws. 

Only tighten enough until the holder or the movement does not rotate, but both are locked together AND the screw heads are oriented as shown in the photo.

It is easy to overtighten them because they are large and you are using a large screwdriver that creates high torque. Overtightening ANY screw can break the screw head. 
Always use screwdrivers of the correct size. 
It is usually better to use a slightly larger size screwdriver versus too small. 
A common mistake of a novice is to use a screwdriver that is too small and this will damage the slot in the head and create obvious gouge marks. 




























_photos: mine (you may use them freely without permission) _
.


----------



## Fergfour

Hey guys I've read that main difference between the 2415.01 and 2415.00, or b, is the thickness. That I could use the 2415.01 to replace a 2415 .00 if I remove the calendar/date bridge from the 2415.01. The part I drew in black here is the calendar/date bridge right? I was then told I had to do something with the hands pins. Not sure about that part.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Fergfour said:


> 1. ...main difference between the 2415.01 and 2415.00, or b, is the thickness.
> 2. ... I could use the 2415.01 to replace a 2415 .00 if I remove the calendar/date bridge from the 2415.01.
> 3. ... The part I drew in black here is the calendar/date bridge right?
> 4. ...I was then told I had to do something with the hands pins...
> 
> View attachment 15893343


.
1. The difference between 2415.00 and 2415.01 is that the 2415.01 has the Calendar system Bridge Plate. This part adds more height to the 2415.01.
The 2415.01 also has taller Pinions for the Hands.

_All _24xx .01 movements have the Calendar Bridge plate and taller Pinions for the Hands.

2. Yes. You can use a 2415.01 to replace a 2415.00. You do not have to remove the Calendar Bridge / Plate. It may be kept in place. But, if you want to install a thick dial, such as a sandwich dial, or if you need more clearance between the hands and the dial - then you must remove the Calendar bridge plate. This will allow you to push the Dial down a small amount to create more clearance.
Also, if the movement will not seat fully into the case because the Dial is too high, you should remove the Calendar Bridge plate and move the dial down closer to the face of the movement.

3. Yes. The part drawn in black is the Calendar / Date Bridge plate. It is fastened by three tiny screws that are easily lost - be careful.

4. Hand Pinions: The hands are attached to pinions which are tiny posts.


you do _not_ have to modify or replace the Hand Pinions when you replace a 24xx.00 movement for a 24xx.01
all 24xx models that have a Calendar mechanism may keep their Hand Pinions

*Hand Pinion Height:

2415.00 vs 2415.01*
2415.00 = SHORT Hand Pinions
2415.01 = TALL Hand Pinions

*All 24xx without Calendar vs All 24xx with Calendar*
_Without_ Calendar = SHORT Hand Pinions
_With_ Calendar = TALL Hand Pinions

*All 24xx.01 *
= No Calendar Mechanism But Calendar Bridge Plate Installed
= TALL Hand Pinions​
2415.01, and all 24xx with Calendar mechanism, has taller pinions to allow the hands to rise above the entire Calendar mechanism or only the Calendar bridge.

When the Calendar Bridge is removed, the dial can be moved _down_ slightly because there is now more space under the dial. So, with taller Pinions for the Hands and a dial sitting lower, the hands will sit _higher_ above the dial versus a 2415.00 and all other 24xx without Caledar mechanism.
You do not have to move the dial down unless it is necessary. You can keep it at the same position it was when the Calendar bridge plate was installed - unless the movement will not fully seat into the case: then you should move the dial down slightly.

*It is best to use a 24xx.01 or a model with entire Calendar mechanism:*​
This gives you more options:

you can install thick or sandwich Dials
you can more easily adjust the clearance between the Dial and the Hands 
Dials with tall indices may interfere with the Hands, so you will need more clearance between the Dial and Hands. You can move the Dial down to create more clearance. 
you can install Dials with or without a Date Window
if you don't want the Calendar mechanism and do not want to keep it installed under a non-Date dial, then keep the parts for future repairs of your other 24xx movements which have the Calendar
----------------------------------------------------------

*Why Is Vostok Now Producing 24xx .01 Movements ??*​
By adding a Calendar Bridge plate to non-Calendar models, a standardised height is created for _all_ 24xx models.


the 24xx.01 models use a Calendar mechanism Bridge plate, but do not have the actual Calendar mechanism. Models with the Calendar mechanism have the Calendar parts installed under this bridge plate, therefore installing the plate _alone_ creates the _same_ height as the models with the Calendar mechanism. This creates a standardised height for all 24xx models which makes case manufacturing easier, simpler and standardised.
Because non-Calendar movements are given their own special, shorter Pinions for the Hands, Vostok must produce two sizes of each Pinion: one size for the non-Calendar models and another size for the other models. It is more expensive to produce two different sizes of pinions. If _all_ 24xx models have the same standard height, then it is cheaper and easier to produce only _one_ set of Pinions that can be used on _all _24xx models.
Vostok is helping the modding community by giving us movements that will accept thick Dials such as sandwich Dials. They also know that replacing a date dial by installing a non-date dial is popular among enthusiasts. However, many people do not want the Calendar mechanism kept intact underneath a non-date dial, and not everyone has the ability to remove the Calendar parts. So, a simpler solution was invented: the 24xx.01 movements.
.


----------



## On_time84

Amazing information for a newbie collector like myself. Thank you kindly for the useful info.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.








.​


----------



## Fergfour

Many thanks for the detailed response. I have some Vostoks with what looks like a "2415 B" movement, they do not have a calendar (on the dial anyway). What makes the "B" movements different than the .00 or .01 movements?

Based on your response I'm assuming:
1. the 2415B has short hand pinions and no calendar bridge?
2. a 2415.01 _could _replace a 2415B as long as there's clearance

For more info, I have the two 1967 40th anniversary editions. They are around 14 years old now and I don't know if they've ever been serviced. I was thinking an alternative to service (I don't have a watchmaker who touches Russians) could be to just swap out the old 2415B movements with a new 2415.01 and call it a day. (The 2415.01 are available on meranom, the 2415B are not). The 40th annv 1967's do not have sandwich dials like the 50th's do so perhaps they aren't as thick.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Fergfour said:


> .... *What makes the "B" movements different than the .00 or .01* movements?
> 
> Based on your response I'm assuming:
> *1.* the 2415B has short hand pinions and no calendar bridge?
> *2.* a 2415.01 _could _replace a 2415B as long as there's clearance
> 
> ...... I was thinking an alternative to service..... could be to just swap out the old 2415B movements with a new 2415.01
> ...... (The 2415.01 are available on Meranom, the 2415B are not)


.

Vostok *24xx automatic 'B' movements are actually .00 models* - they are the same​
24xx _manual_ 'A' movements are also .00 models - they are the same​

When Vostok created the .01 models, they also created the .00 designation for the base models _24xxB _(automatic) and the manual _24xxA_ models.

'B' and 'A' models are now often listed as 24xx._00_ to better differentiate their name from the .01 models and to create a standardised model # system as more and more models are introduced.

24xx.00 _automatic_ could also be called: 24xx_B._00 and the .01 model = 24xx_B_.01
24xx.00 _manual_ models could also be called: 24xx_A_.00 and the .01 model = 24xx_A_.01

*24xxB = automatic
24xxA = manual 
.*


----------



## Fergfour

Matt_Bored_O said:


> Vostok *24xx automatic 'B' movements are actually .00 models* - they are the same​
> 24xx manual 'A' movements are also .00 models - they are the same​
> When Vostok created the .01 models, they also created the .00 designation for the base models _24xxB _(automatic) and the manual _24xxA_ models.
> 'B' and 'A' models are now often listed as 24xx._00_ to better differentiate their name from the .01 models and to create a standardised model # system as more and more models are introduced.
> 24xx.00 automatic could also be called: 24xx_B._00 and the .01 model = 24xx_B_.01
> 24xx.00 manual could also be called: 24xx_A_.00 and the .01 model = 24xx_A_.01
> *24xxB = automatic
> 24xxA = manual
> .*


How do you know all this and can you service my Vostoks? LOL


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
1._ "the 2415B has short hand pinions and no calendar bridge?"_

Yes.
Same model and specs. as the 2415.00
Same with manual model: 24xxA = same model and specs. as manual 24xx.00

2. _"a 2415.01 _could_ replace a 2415B as long as there's clearance?" _

Yes.

24xxA.01 can always replace a 24xxA
2415.01 can always replace a 24xxB

_If_ more clearance is required in the case, it will be a very small amount so you can remove the Calendar Bridge plate and push the dial down. 
.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Fergfour said:


> How do you know all this and can you service my Vostoks? LOL


.
Thank you for your confidence in me.
Unfortunately, I do not service watches for other folks anymore. 
.


----------



## jimzilla

Does anyone know the paint part numbers for the Red and Black paint colors used on the Bezels?
I am In the USA so "Testors" brand part numbers would be good, some thing I can pick up at the hobby store.
Thanks comrades, James.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.

*Paint Similar to Vostok Bezel Paint:
Red & Black*

Testors enamel:

Gloss Red: 1103
Flat Red: 1150
(there is no semi-gloss for standard Red)

Gloss Black: 1147
Flat Black: 1149
Semi-Gloss: 1139
​Vostok paint appears to be Semi-Gloss.

I like to create my own Semi-Gloss by mixing a small amount of Flat paint into the Gloss.
Pure Gloss can look cheap.

I have used these colours on bezels and compared them to the original paint of Vostok bezels.
It is difficult to see a difference. I don't think you'll find anything better from Testors.

-------------------------------------------

General Advice for Paint:​

use the _correct_ type of solvent / thinner to thin the paint
Enamel and Lacquer are good choices for bezels and other small parts
the colour of the material under the paint can sometimes alter the shade or tone of the paint. example: dark brass vs. bright chrome
custom mixing or combining paint gives you more control over gloss and colour
adding a small amount of Thinner or Solvent helps the paint to flow into very small crevices and is sometimes better for shallow areas such as shallow bezel markings where thick paint could sit too high
fluorescent colours require a _thin_ base coat of white. I use a thin coat of flat white that has been thinned with solvent
_very_ small amounts of enamel or lacquer paint can be added to lume to alter the _daytime _colour of the lume. The colour of the luminous glow is normally not affected
-----------------------------------------

Testors may not be available in all countries.
Other brands of good hobby paint: Humbrol or Tamiya

_If anyone knows the similar Red and Black paints from Humbrol, Tamiya or others that are of the same tone as original Vostok paint, please post the colour name, part / paint numbers. _​.


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you very much Matt, I have a bezel that needs redone, thank you for making it easy to pick some up!


----------



## Chascomm

Please note, the following two tutorials have been created as stand-alone threads after the original tutorials have become lost in the depths of this now very long thread.








How to change a date-wheel on a Vostok 24xx


This is an extension of part 1) How to change hands & dial on a Vostok 24xx (How to change hands & dial on a Vostok 24xx) and you need to read that tutorial in order to perform the date-wheel change. Obviously, one has to remove the hands and dial, as described in part 1) in order to change...




www.watchuseek.com












How to change hands & dial on a Vostok 24xx


This is a re-write of a my tutorial written mid-2019. With the new WUS-software it is far more easy to insert pictures making the tutorial much easier to follow. Also the previous version is hidden in a thread. Now it is re-written in a "stand-alone" thread and hopefully our moderator Chascomm...




www.watchuseek.com





So they don't get lost, they have been filed under 'Russian watch Articles'








Articles


Russian watch Articles & FAQ




www.watchuseek.com





The current forum software does not support the same threaded viewing mode available previously, making it hard to search for individual posts in long threads. Therefore I would like to suggest that in future any detailed tutorials be created as their own thread in the Articles sub-forum and the link posted back onto this thread. Also, if anybody has the time an interest, the same should be done with the tutorials already on this thread. Once we have achieved something that looks like a critical mass of technical knowledge, we can set up a new sticky thread purely as an index and retire this thread.


----------



## SuffolkGerryW

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> 
> *Paint Similar to Vostok Bezel Paint:
> Red & Black*
> 
> Testors enamel:
> 
> Gloss Red: 1103
> Flat Red: 1150
> (there is no semi-gloss for standard Red)
> 
> Gloss Black: 1147
> Flat Black: 1149
> Semi-Gloss: 1139
> ​Vostok paint appears to be Semi-Gloss.
> 
> I like to create my own Semi-Gloss by mixing a small amount of Flat paint into the Gloss.
> Pure Gloss can look cheap.
> 
> I have used these colours on bezels and compared them to the original paint of Vostok bezels.
> It is difficult to see a difference. I don't think you'll find anything better from Testors.
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 
> General Advice for Paint:​
> 
> use the _correct_ type of solvent / thinner to thin the paint
> Enamel and Lacquer are good choices for bezels and other small parts
> the colour of the material under the paint can sometimes alter the shade or tone of the paint. example: dark brass vs. bright chrome
> custom mixing or combining paint gives you more control over gloss and colour
> adding a small amount of Thinner or Solvent helps the paint to flow into very small crevices and is sometimes better for shallow areas such as shallow bezel markings where thick paint could sit too high
> fluorescent colours require a _thin_ base coat of white. I use a thin coat of flat white that has been thinned with solvent
> _very_ small amounts of enamel or lacquer paint can be added to lume to alter the _daytime _colour of the lume. The colour of the luminous glow is normally not affected
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> Testors may not be available in all countries.
> Other brands of good hobby paint: Humbrol or Tamiya
> 
> _If anyone knows the similar Red and Black paints from Humbrol, Tamiya or others that are of the same tone as original Vostok paint, please post the colour name, part / paint numbers. _​.


There are several 'conversion/comparison' charts on the web, where you can get the above converted to a paint brand that's easily obtained in your area (a search for 'testors conversion chart' will bring up several) I would suggest using two or three different ones, just to check that the same colours come back as 'matches'


----------



## Chascomm

Vostok 2409 Picture Service Walkthrough


Vostok 2409 Service Walkthrough Disassembly Pictures (Please sort by name in ascending order) Vostok 2409 Service Walkthrough Assembly Pictures (Please sort by name in ascending order) Introduction My walkthrough consists of many, very many, pictures. The idea is to show the procedure is such...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## jimzilla

I have a 2409 that when wound will take 5 or 6 turns of the crown and then the spring slips and the watch will not wind up. 
is this an easy fix? some detail would be much appreciated, thank you in advance, James.


----------



## SinanjuStein

jimzilla said:


> I have a 2409 that when wound will take 5 or 6 turns of the crown and then the spring slips and the watch will not wind up.
> is this an easy fix? some detail would be much appreciated, thank you in advance, James.


When it slips do you hear a soft distinct click of sorts? Because if so you have a broken mainspring. (Or something wrong with the mainspring arbor)


----------



## Victorv

jimzilla said:


> I have a 2409 that when wound will take 5 or 6 turns of the crown and then the spring slips and the watch will not wind up.
> is this an easy fix? some detail would be much appreciated, thank you in advance, James.


Hello Jim,

I think you have a broken mainspring. Yo can change the whole barrel if you aren't confident changing the spring

But please wait to the experts for a better opinion, i'm just an amateur

Edit: just saw the post of our comrade SinaujStein, and i write the same as him (i think we were writing at the same time), so sorry for the duplicity


----------



## jimzilla

Yes I do hear a click and loss of tenision on the crown, I do have replacement mainsprings in the barrels, I wouldn't mind trying replacing if not too difficult


----------



## EndeavourDK

jimzilla said:


> I wouldn't mind trying replacing if not too difficult


James; difficult is relative 

If it has to be it can even be done with the movement still in its housing. Do you have the correct barrel + spring for a 2409/2414 and not a barrel for an automatic?


----------



## 979greenwich

I've had several 2414 mainsprings failing/slipping in barrel, but found no broken pieces inside, so I can only conclude that the barrel arbor design/execution is faulty. One of many weak spots of the movement. At least there are lots of cheap and broken Komandirskies usually for sale, so it's no problem to scavenge mainspring barrels, crowns, balances and whatever else tends to regularly fail on them...


----------



## jimzilla

Hello Roland, nice of you to chime in sir, I wish you a good day my friend. 
Yes! I have many skeletal remains of 2409,2414 and 2416"s at my disposal.
Thank you too 979greenwich for offering an opinion.


----------



## EndeavourDK

I noticed that too that often at the end of the 2409/2414 springs, the "lip" which engages in the inner-barrel-wall recess has broken off. Even with brand-new springs! Funny enough, I've dismantled lots of scrap 2209 and all those springs were 100%, none of them were broken.
It's not that hard to repair these "lips", but nice is something else.

Anyway, there are two (perhaps more) ways to replace the barrel. The official- & save-way by which you have to dismantle nearly the whole movement or the "on your own risk" short-cut. If you wish, I can tomorrow make a "walk-through" (with pictures and text) of the "on your own risk" short-cut.....


----------



## 979greenwich

Yes, if you unscrew the bridge and the barrel screw, you can tilt the bridge just enough to pull out the barrel without disassembling the whole movement. I managed to pull out the barrel and replace it with a new one even with the movement inside the case.


----------



## jimzilla

That would be great Roland much appriciated!


----------



## EndeavourDK

979greenwich said:


> Yes, if you unscrew the bridge and the barrel screw, you can tilt the bridge just enough to pull out the barrel without disassembling the whole movement. I managed to pull out the barrel and replace it with a new one even with the movement inside the case.


 Indeed 

Today I will try to make a step-by-step walk-through how that's done and place it as a separated thread, hopefully later to be collection it a "technical" chapter and easy to find back.


----------



## EndeavourDK

Here a link to the "on you own risk" main-spring change-out short cut ..... have fun ?









How to change a main-spring barrel on Vostok 2409/2414...


Sometimes on a hand-wound Vostok 2409/2414 the main-spring breaks. This can be due to metal fatigue or, which seems to be a Vostok 2409/2414 weak-spot, the end of the spring (the bridle) breaks off. The indication are often that you can wind the watch only a few turns before you hear the spring...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## trapper777

I just wanted to say thanks for all of the help from the people here. Just swapped out the strap and bezel on my first amphibia to get it to where I wanted.








I've already got my next amphibia planned out, a white dialed one with a silver baikal bezel. Just waiting for blue steel hands to come back into stock! Y'all have lead me into one addicting hobby...


----------



## oa.design.werke

trapper777 said:


> I just wanted to say thanks for all of the help from the people here. Just swapped out the strap and bezel on my first amphibia to get it to where I wanted.
> View attachment 15933608
> 
> I've already got my next amphibia planned out, a white dialed one with a silver baikal bezel. Just waiting for blue steel hands to come back into stock! Y'all have lead me into one addicting hobby...


Hey man that looks great! The explorer bezel is pretty uncommon with Vostok mods, really cool choice. Nice blend of utility and dressy. The shark mesh is a nice match too.


----------



## oa.design.werke

Anybody have an unusually hard time putting their stems back in after removal? Something about these Vostok movements. 

Every time I remove the stem it's like any other watch, pretty straightforward. But placing the stem back in always seems to take an usual amount of pressure force on the little pressure plate/catch, I'm always worried i'm going too hard but otherwise it won't click in. Is this just a characteristic of Russian movements?


----------



## jimzilla

Question for the resident experts...........
Do the hand sets for the 24XX movements fit the 2209 movements?
thank you in advance, James.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

oa.design.werke said:


> Anybody have an unusually hard time putting their stems back in after removal? Something about these Vostok movements.
> 
> Is this just a characteristic of Russian movements?


.
Many of us sometimes have to wrestle with the stems to install them.

Some folks have better luck by first pulling the stem out to the Time Setting position, before removing the stem.
This can make installation easier, but not always.

The square section of the stem, near the tip, must be aligned to fit into the square hole of the gear it turns inside the Keyless Works. Simply remove the stem, turn it sligtly, then try again to install it. Sometimes you have to do this several times until the parts align properly.

Perhaps there are easier methods, but that is what I do. 
.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> Do the hand sets for the 24XX movements fit the 2209 movements?


.
24x hands: 1.40 x 0.88 x 0.17 mm

22x hands: 1.40 x 0.86 x 0.22 mm​.
I personally have not tried to install 24x hands onto 22xx movements.

I don't know how easily you can make the Minute hand fit.
Obviously, the hand hole must be reduced in size.
There are several methods that watchmakers use.
I have used solder to first fill the hole then open it up to the required size.
It is not the method usually used by watchmakers, but it works for me. You will damage the paint in the area though, so you will have to re-paint it.

The Seconds hand is not an easy modification but if the hand tube is thick enough, you may be able to drill it larger, but you would probably need a jeweler's cutting broach. That would be difficult since there is no hole on the top side of the tube to allow the broach to pass as you work it in the tube.
.


----------



## jimzilla

Hi Matt nice to hear from you, wow that is a little more complex than I thought. I may have to find the "Possum King" and see what he can do for me. I wonder if anyone makes hand sets for the 2209'S ... ? thank you Matt, have a good one.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> I may have to find the "Possum King" and see what he can do for me.
> 
> I wonder if anyone makes hand sets for the 2209'S ...


.
PossumKing is a good start.

IgorIV may be able to help. He makes several 24xx hands with the vintage USSR length but I believe the holes are for 24xx movements - this is to allow us to make homage pieces.
He may be able to make a set of hands, or at least the Minute hand, with the 22xx size hole. The Minute hand would be the easiest for him to modify since the hole is flat with no tube.

Hand re-sizing:

How to close hour hands hole with a staking tool

From that thread:
- to close the hole of a flat faced hand hole:

...." a round faced punch slightly larger than the hole and rest the hand on a flat portion of the staking tool's anvil [or any very hard flat surface] with no hole under it. Center the round faced punch in the hole and tap it lightly. Try for fit, do it again if neccessary. It will make the hole in the hand concave but will close it up in diameter."

"I've found that the purpose-made "hole closing" punches don't work as well for closing the holes in flat hands as a round faced punch and and a flat faced punch do. Not to mention it's hard to find hole closing punches that small to begin with. Another disadvantage is that they create an indented circle around the hole, which can be unsightly. "
- quotes: unreformed66

I would use the above method. It works. 
0.88 down to 0.86 is a very small amount and would only require a small deformation of the hole. It's easy to do and you could easily make a 'round faced' punch if necessary.

For larger reductions I often use the solder method, but I often work with solder and soldering irons so I am comfortable with it.  
.


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you for all the good information Matt, I recently had an interest in the 119 cased vostoks so I picked up a couple. I did not know parts were at a premium. can you swap in a 24XX movement into the 119 cases? does the movement ring fit a 24XX? that would solve my problem of building a new looking franken watch as I have the dial and hand set.
Let me know Matt and have a great day my friend, James.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Hi James,

One person who would know the answer is Matt Brace. 
Mario may also know as he owns many 119's.

Here is some info. to help you get started:

"...any new Amphibia with short stem (420, 710 etc...) 
You'll need the movement holder and stem with crown from that.

Both hand-wound movements will fit: 2409 / 2414 "
_
( I don't remember who said this. But the forum member had success with this.) _
.

The 22xx movement holder can be modified to fit a 24xx with hand tools for those who want to keep the original holder.
.


----------



## Victorv

jimzilla said:


> Thank you for all the good information Matt, I recently had an interest in the 119 cased vostoks so I picked up a couple. I did not know parts were at a premium. can you swap in a 24XX movement into the 119 cases? does the movement ring fit a 24XX? that would solve my problem of building a new looking franken watch as I have the dial and hand set.
> Let me know Matt and have a great day my friend, James.


Hello Jim,

I think you can swap the 2209 with the 2409 (i'm planing on doing it too). Just need to swap the movement ring and the crown if i'm not wrong


----------



## jimzilla

Great!!! and thank you Matt and Victorv, I have everything I need so I will see if it works and post results. best regards and have a wonderful day comrades, James.


----------



## jimzilla

So far so good. I test fit the parts and it winds and moves the gears for setting time so it seems good to go. I do not know how much room I will have for setting the hands but I guess I will find out tomorrow and post results. These Vostoks are amazing little marvels, I took a case with a 2209 in it, swapped in a 2409 movement using a crown from a 420 case and it works!!!!
Impressive is all I can say.


----------



## Victorv

jimzilla said:


> So far so good. I test fit the parts and it winds and moves the gears for setting time so it seems good to go. I do not know how much room I will have for setting the hands but I guess I will find out tomorrow and post results. These Vostoks are amazing little marvels, I took a case with a 2209 in it, swapped in a 2409 movement using a crown from a 420 case and it works!!!!
> Impressive is all I can say.


Super nice Jim

Did you use the 2409 movement ring right?


----------



## jimzilla

Yes 2409 movement with crown from 420 case. I will post the finished watch tomorrow Victorv, hane a good evening comrade, James..


----------



## jimzilla

Here you go Victorv, and yes I did use the 2409 movement ring. Everything dropped right in, it was easy.


----------



## Victorv

jimzilla said:


> Here you go Victorv, and yes I did use the 2409 movement ring. Everything dropped right in, it was easy.


Super nice Jim

I like so much your mod. I'm planing on doing the same, but i want to suit a 3 6 9 12 blue vostok dial that is on my way haha.

When i do it i will show you the results, and many thanks fot confirming that i need the 2409 movement ring


----------



## jimzilla

I do know these watches were building are franken and we may be scoffed and laughed at by some of the purist's on this site but you have to admit they are beautiful and made with factory parts.
I am just as proud to wear this watch as I would a rare collectable specimen. I cannot wait to see yours Victorv, have a great day sir, James.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Don't worry about the "purists" - as Vostoks are the perfect base for all kinds of moddings (as you well know) and your beautiful watch(es) will be much admired by all creative modders around.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

A technical question: A couple of days ago I built a new mod and changed hands on a movement that works perfectly well (+1 sec./day) on the balance side (according to my timegrapher) but now loses about 15-20 minutes per hour(!) on the hands' side. Any idea, where this strange behaviour might come from?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> A technical question: A couple of days ago I built a new mod and changed hands on a movement that works perfectly well (+1 sec./day) on the balance side (according to my timegrapher) but now loses about 15-20 minutes per hour(!) on the hands' side. Any idea, where this strange behaviour might come from?


.
I assume:

"Balance Side" = Dial UP
"Hands Side" = Dial DOWN

Is this correct?

1. If the dial feet are broken or removed and you forget to use adhesive 'Dial Dots' to attach the dial, the dial will fall onto the hands when the watch is turned Dial Down. This will impede the movement of the hands and may cause the watch to lose time.

2. If the dial attachment screws are not tight, the dial may remain loose and when the watch is turned Dial Down, the dial could fall onto the hands and impede their movement.

3. It is not unusual for a Balance Staff Pivot to be broken yet the Balance continues to turn fairly precisely when it is rotating on the undamaged pinion.
If a Balance is installed improperly you can break or bend a pivot and you may not notice this because it is very small.
.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Thanks, Matt, for your quick answer. I probably did not describe correctly what I meant. With "balance side" I meant that the "ticking" of the movement (which is recorded and translated by the timegrapher into the graph) is OK, whereas the hands move far too slowly. The dial is correctly fixed on the movement. It is an original Vostok dial with dial feet and the fixing screws are tightened.
The problem with the broken balance pinion seems more probable to me. Do I have any chance to see this kind of damage in any kind of data on the timegrapher (I only have a cheap Chinese Weishi 1000, as I am not a professional watchmaker)?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> ... the "ticking" of the movement (which is recorded and translated by the timegrapher into the graph) is OK, whereas the hands move far too slowly.


.
A broken Balance Staff Pivot (the fine tip of each end of the Balance Staff that fit inside the Balance pivot jewels) will often exhibit a very obvious problem when the movement is positioned so that the Balance rests on the broken pivot. The Balance may slow down considerably, move erratically and perhaps stop completely. You will see this visually and on the timegrapher.

If the hands are moving slowly / losing time but the movement itself appears to be working properly:
most often the problem is:

1. loose hands
2. loose Cannon Pinion
3. Dial Washer missing​
You said that you changed the hands recently.
It is possible that you did not install them properly or seat them fully and now they are slipping.
Also, hands may become loose if they are removed and installed more than a few times because the mounting holes can become worn and the hands cannot seat tightly.










Fortunately, it appears Vostok movements do not have a problem with loose cannon pinions more than many other brands. To repair a loose Vostok Cannon Pinion you must tighten the crimp. This is the same common standard method used for most mechanical movements. 
.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> A broken Balance Staff Pivot (the fine tip of each end of the Balance Staff that fit inside the Balance pivot jewels) will often exhibit a very obvious problem when the movement is positioned so that the Balance rests on the broken pivot. The Balance may slow down considerably, move erratically and perhaps stop completely. You will see this visually and on the timegrapher.
> 
> If the hands are moving slowly / losing time but the movement itself appears to be working properly:
> most often the problem is:
> 
> 1. loose hands
> 2. loose Cannon Pinion
> 3. Dial Washer missing​
> You said that you changed the hands recently.
> It is possible that you did not install them properly or seat them fully and now they are slipping.
> Also, hands may become loose if they are removed and installed more than a few times because the mounting holes can become worn and the hands cannot seat tightly.
> 
> View attachment 15968136
> 
> 
> Fortunately, it appears Vostok movements do not have a problem with loose cannon pinions more than many other brands. To repair a loose Vostok Cannon Pinion you must tighten the crimp. This is the same common standard method used for most mechanical movements.
> .


Again, Matt, thanks so much for your competent and detailed answer! I checked the hands when I encountered the problem for the first time and they were very tightly seated on the hour wheel and cannon pinion. The dial washer is in its place, I didn't remove it when I changed the dial. I'm pretty sure now that the second point you mentioned - the loose cannon pinion - is the solution to the problem. I will try to fix it although I'm not sure if my equipment is sufficient for it. I will see. In the meantime, I had already removed dial and hands from the damaged movement and put them on a new one and now the new mod is working perfectly. So I have a lot of time to fix the problem now.


----------



## jimzilla

How do you tell which main spring barrel is which?
I do know the one on the right came out of a 2409, the left one has a taller input shaft, but how do you tell? thank you so much.


----------



## jimzilla

I have another question as well......
How do you remove the winding crown tubes and what tools are needed? thank you, James.


----------



## Victorv

Hello guys, someone know if actual hands for amphibia (2416) fit vintage 2409?

I was thinking that it will fit, but i'm having problems with the seconds hand


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

​


jimzilla said:


> How do you remove the winding crown tubes and what tools are needed?


.
Hi James,

*Case / Crown Tube: Removal & Installation*

What tools to use and the methods you use depend upon if you want the actual tools that are made for the task or if you want to use common tools you may have already, and modify them slightly if necessary.

I have always heated the entire case to 500F in an oven as a first step, with crystal removed.
Then clamped into a vise, before it cools, ensuring that you clamp the area of the tube. Use wood or pads on the vise jaws to prevent damage.

If you are discarding the Case Tube, Vise grips and / or a dent puller with sliding weight has been successful for me to remove it. I have never removed a Case Tube that I had to re-install; so for me the damage to it when removing it was of no importance. You must be careful to not break the threaded head from the tube, especially if using vise grips or similar to grip and pull the tube. If broken, you must then grind off any remaining part of the head / top, then use a punch to remove the tube from case.

Another option: 
Clamp the case in a vise and use a drill press to drill out the case tube.
Use a bit that is only the same OD as the case tube part which fits into the case.
Use a little light oil to help to keep the bit cool and lubricated.

--------

I install by using a fairly large and heavy pin punch, with a piece of brass or aluminium on top of the Crown Tube for protection, then hammer the punch.
This has been successful for me with no problems or damage.

Bench Vise as a Press:

You can use a common bench vise with DIY jigs or dies to create a Case Tube Press that functions similar to a genuine Case Tube Press.

Case Tube Presses:

These function by pressing the tube out, from the inside of the case, using dies of the correct size for the tube.
There is usually an installation feature also.
Good presses as this one below are expensive and may not be a wise purchase if you seldom use it.
Hand held presses may be difficult to use and not apply enough force.









_Horotec Case Tube Press with dies_​
.
*** If anyone has their own method and / or tool ideas:
Please send me a PM.
I will create an article tutorial to place in the 'Articles' section of the Russian Forum.

-------------

- this enitre 'Guide' thread will be given a new format and all 'How To' / tutorials and most other info. and data will be moved into separate articles in the 'Articles' section of the Russian Forum. This will make it easier to find all the information and tutorials.
.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Victorv said:


> Hello guys, someone know if actual hands for amphibia (2416) fit vintage 2409?
> 
> I was thinking that it will fit, but i'm having problems with the seconds hand


.
Yes, they will fit, but as you discovered, they will not always fit easily.
There are quality control issues such as slightly larger or smaller pinions for the hands and there have been periods of time in the past 30 years when this has been a larger problem.

- Vintage 2409: how old is it?

Remember to support the Seconds Hand Pinion spring when you install the Seconds hand.
.


----------



## Victorv

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> Yes, they will fit, but as you discovered, they will not always fit easily.
> There are quality control issues such as slightly larger or smaller pinions for the hands and there have been periods of time in the past 30 years when this has been a larger problem.
> 
> - Vintage 2409: how old is it?
> 
> Remember to support the Seconds Hand Pinion spring when you install the Seconds hand.
> .


Many many thanks Matt, so i will keep trying it tomorrow, and will tell you if it works 

Yes i supported the seconds hand pinion spring with a pencil cap 

The 2409 movement i think is from de 90's or so


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Victorv said:


> Many many thanks Matt, so i will keep trying it tomorrow, and will tell you if it works
> 
> Yes i supported the seconds hand pinion spring with a pencil cap
> 
> The 2409 movement i think is from de 90's or so


.
Ensure the tiny hole in the Seconds Hand mounting tube is not damaged. 
Sometimes if a Seconds hand does not fit easily, or if we are not careful, that tube, often made of brass, could be damaged and the hole could get burrs.

It is sometimes easier to fit the Seconds hand if you first chamfer the opening of that mounting tube. 
.


----------



## jimzilla

Matt_Bored_O said:


> ​.
> Hi James,
> 
> *Case / Crown Tube: Removal & Installation*
> 
> What tools to use and the methods you use depend upon if you want the actual tools that are made for the task or if you want to use common tools you may have already, and modify them slightly if necessary.
> 
> I have always heated the entire case to 500F in an oven as a first step, with crystal removed.
> Then clamped into a vise, before it cools, ensuring that you clamp the area of the tube. Use wood or pads on the vise jaws to prevent damage.
> 
> If you are discarding the Case Tube, Vise grips and / or a dent puller with sliding weight has been successful for me to remove it. I have never removed a Case Tube that I had to re-install; so for me the damage to it when removing it was of no importance. You must be careful to not break the threaded head from the tube, especially if using vise grips or similar to grip and pull the tube. If broken, you must then grind off any remaining part of the head / top, then use a punch to remove the tube from case.
> 
> I install by using a fairly large and heavy pin punch, with a piece of brass or aluminium on top of the Crown Tube for protection, then hammer the punch.
> This has been successful for me with no problems or damage.
> 
> Bench Vise as a Press:
> 
> You can use a common bench vise with DIY jigs or dies to create a Case Tube Press that functions similar to a genuine Case Tube Press.
> 
> Case Tube Presses:
> 
> These function by pressing the tube out, from the inside of the case, using dies of the correct size for the tube.
> There is usually an installation feature also.
> Good presses as this one below are expensive and may not be a wise purchase if you seldom use it.
> Hand held presses may be difficult to use and not apply enough force.
> 
> View attachment 15976831
> 
> _Horotec Case Tube Press with dies_​
> .
> *** If anyone has their own method and / or tool ideas:
> Please send me a PM.
> I will create an article tutorial to place in the 'Articles' section of the Russian Forum.
> 
> -------------
> 
> - this enitre 'Guide' thread will be given a new format and all 'How To' / tutorials and most other info. and data will be moved into separate articles in the 'Articles' section of the Russian Forum. This will make it easier to find all the information and tutorials.
> .


Thank you Matt, I think I may pick up a _Horotec Case Tube Press. It takes a lot of pressure to press in and remove these so I think a decent tool is in order to make things easy and not to damage the case or tube. Thank you sir and have a good evening, James._


----------



## Avidfan

jimzilla said:


> How do you tell which main spring barrel is which?
> I do know the one on the right came out of a 2409, the left one has a taller input shaft, but how do you tell? thank you so much.
> View attachment 15976105


Hello James,

Here's a link (scroll down) that should explain your Vostok arbor (input shaft) mystery, arbors are the same for all Vostok 24xx movements but basically the shorter arbor are old (mid-1980's and earlier) and the longer arbor are newer...

Hope this helps a little...


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you so much Avidfan it is much appreciated sir. best regards to you and have a great day, James.


----------



## jimzilla

I am still confused on the main spring barrels, does anyone have charts, pictures, measurements that define which one is 
which? as far as the modern spring barrels i think there are three? 2416, 2414, 2409. How do you tell them apart?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> I am still confused on the main spring barrels, does anyone have charts, pictures, measurements that define which one is
> which? as far as the modern spring barrels i think there are three? 2416, 2414, 2409. How do you tell them apart?


.
I am also confused.
Hopefully someone with the knowledge and experience will reply.

I don't understand why 2409 and 2414 would have different barrels or mainsprings.

Meranom and several ebay sellers have them listed as separate parts, but other sellers, such as Komandirskie.com lists them as the _same_ part.

I personally see no visual difference between these two barrels and mainsprings.

On the interior wall of the 24xx Automatic barrel, there are several indentations that the 2409/2414 barrels do not have.
Outwardly though, _all _barrels appear quite identical.

The 24xx automatic mainspring is identified by its long bridle hook at the end.
Some sellers show a photo of the 24xx Auto. / 2416 mainspring, removed from the barrel, on their listing for 2409 or 2414 barrel / mainspring. It is easy to be confused; people must be careful. It is common practice for some sellers to use one photo for several listings, to save time.
Buyers should contact the seller to ensure they will receive the proper part.

-------
As jimzilla says:

If anyone has charts, pictures, measurements that define which one is which, please post this information.
.


----------



## jimzilla

Then I think I would have to order them from Meranom and mark them as to which ones are which,
Thank you Matt, I hope you are doing well my friend. Best regards, James.


----------



## RFollia

Victorv said:


> Many many thanks Matt, so i will keep trying it tomorrow, and will tell you if it works
> 
> Yes i supported the seconds hand pinion spring with a pencil cap
> 
> The 2409 movement i think is from de 90's or so


Maybe if the seconds pinion is very slightly bent, the hands will not fit. I've seen that on some "dirskies" rescued from the dead, powered by the 2409


----------



## Victorv

Victorv said:


> Many many thanks Matt, so i will keep trying it tomorrow, and will tell you if it works
> 
> Yes i supported the seconds hand pinion spring with a pencil cap
> 
> The 2409 movement i think is from de 90's or so


Finally i managed to fit all the hands with a bit of patience

Here the result


----------



## oa.design.werke

Evening gents, 2 quick questions. 

1. Can the crown be separated from the stem, and a different (non-vostok) crown be put on the Vostok stem? Like is there any reasonable way to rig this? 

I am planning a killer build where I take an Explorer style case in black PVD however the crown, crown tube and all the threading doesn't remotely match that of the Vostok. The Vostok crown is from a 420 case, I want to somehow mate the stem to the custom black crown that comes with the Explorer case and ditch the actual Vostok crown altogether. 

2. Assuming the answer to #1 is no, what is the thread pitch of the Vostok crown tube and crown? Perhaps I will retap the thread with the larger vostok threading and just use the entire Vostok crown as it is. 

Would love any insight on this from the Masters.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

oa.design.werke said:


> 1. Can the crown be separated from the stem,
> 
> - and a different (non-vostok) crown be put on the Vostok stem?


.
1. The crown cannot be easily removed. You must drill a hole though the top of the crown to remove the stem.
A Vostok stem has a clutch system that uses a specially shaped stem end which fits into a special cavity in the crown. Therefore, you cannot install a non Vostok crown onto a Vostok stem.
You must cut the Vostok stem and attach it to the non Vostok stem that is attached to the desired crown.

See this tutorial: Removing a Vostok stem from a standard crown:

#532 - Kamburov
--- A Guide: Buying / Modifying / Repairing VOSTOK...

The three best methods to attach a non-Vostok crown onto a Vostok stem:

1st method:
- by joining the Vostok stem to a stub of the non-Vostok stem that is attached to the non-Vostok crown.
-- see diagram

2nd method:
- if the non-Vostok crown uses a tapped hole to attach the stem, you can cut threads onto the Vostok stem, (after cutting off the Vostok crown). Then simply screw in the Vostok stem into the non-Vostok crown.
PROBLEM: the Vosok stem MUST be the correct diameter AND correct lenghth but no smaller than the stem required for the non-Vostok crown. You must also have the correct size die to cut the new threads.

3rd method:
- attach the Vostok stem into the threaded hole of the crown by using very strong glue such as epoxy or J-B Weld or similar. This may not be as strong or reliable as the other methods. Also, the threaded hole may have to be drilled larger and the wall of the threaded hole may not be thick enough to create a wider hole. Also, the Vostok stem may be too large and you must grind it to a smaller diameter. If the stem is too small a diameter, it may be a weak joint.

The first method may be the best in this particular situation.










diagram: mine (you may use it freely)
.


----------



## oa.design.werke

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> 1. The crown cannot be easily removed. You must drill a hole though the top of the crown to remove the stem.
> 
> .


Matt, that is a very detailed reply and I thank you. Diagram is very helpful as well. I think the brass tube and solder sounds like the best choice in this situation.

If I find myself in Canada I owe you a beer


----------



## Christopher.NYC

Hey all, my first post here. I just ordered my first vostok - the 420 case Amphibia and have been on this page trying to find current sellers for replacement bezels that are low profile. I apologize if this is a repetitive question but who sells bezels that do not sit proud of the diameter of the case, and that sits low/flush with the height? I keep seeing replacement bezels the have a gap between the case and the bezel, or ones that are just really thick bezels to close that gap - i think both look ugly and will be annoying to wear. I have also seen around that you can use skx bezels, is this true and does it apply to all of them?

I have also been considering clean bezels, but most I have seen are super bulky and have a very dramatic slope, so does anyone know where I can find a more subtle one of these?

Lastly, the paint on the stock bezel (the one with red and black circles at each hour) - is it removable with something like acetone?

Thank you!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

Christopher.NYC said:


> 1. who sells bezels that do not sit proud of the diameter of the case, and that sits low/flush with the height?
> 
> I keep seeing replacement *bezels the have a gap between the case and the bezel*, or ones that are just really thick bezels to close that gap - i think both look ugly and will be annoying to wear. I have also seen around that you can use skx bezels, is this true and does it apply to all of them?
> 
> 2. the paint on the stock bezel (the one with red and black circles at each hour)
> - is it removable with something like acetone?


.
Hi Christopher,

1.
Most bezels of a smaller diameter and lower height are most often the standard original, non-insert Vostok bezels that come with the Amphibia and Komandirskie.
Nearly all replacement or 'after-market' bezels are wide because they use the Seiko SKX bezel inserts.

All bezels produced to fit Vostok use the same size inserts: SKX (SKX007)
* except bezels from: AM-Diver and Meranom -- these use a different size / shape

The width of the inserts dictates the width of the bezel, so it is difficult to have a bezel with an outer diameter of less than 39mm. The insert width also dictates that the bezels must be a certain minimum height, or thickness, so that the top part of the bezel with the insert is high enough to clear the crown of the smaller case models. Thus many bezels are made with a smaller diameter lower portion, or skirt, and a wider top portion. This skirt allows space for the crown, especially for the smaller cases.

*Width: * All bezels that use Seiko SKX inserts are always 39 - 40 mm wide -- _minimum _
They cannot have a smaller outside diameter becase the insert is 38mm OD.

*Height / Thickness: *All bezels that use Seiko SKX inserts are always:
3.5 mm thick -- _minimum. _Most are 4 mm and taller.​
One of the replacement bezels with the lowest height is a 'Murphy' bezel:
Murphy Manufacturing

Here is a comparison to a similar bezel by 'arkustime':









photo: ? (labels - mine)​
One of the most minimalist designs using an insert is the 'arkustime smooth edge' bezel.
It is not much smaller than many other bezels but its design gives it a smaller and less obtrusive appearance. It is a good choice for a minimalist insert bezel.








photo and seller: arkustime​
*'Clean' Bezels:*

There are two types of 'clean' bezel:

angled slope
'vintage' or rounded style

Perhaps the rounded style is better for you.

Here are two examples:









photo and seller: sale4you1 (there may be other sellers)
.








photo: HorstSt
bezel: previous sellers: zavar011 / sale4you1 (there may be other sellers)
- it may be produced again. Ask sellers for info.
.
----------------

*Modifying / Machining a Bezel to Alter the Diameter or Shape:*

Consider this if you cannot find a bezel of the size or shape you prefer.
Some of us have altered our bezels using simple tools.

For example, to reduce the diameter of any bezel:

you can put a bezel onto a wood or plastic dowel or rod to hold it as you rotate the bezel edge against a belt or disc sander.
make a simple jig that holds the bezel at a precise distance from the sander and that allows you to rotate it against the sander. The exact amount of metal will be removed evenly around the circumference.

* caution: if the bezel uses an insert: you must keep a narrow outer lip for the insert channel to protect the edge of the insert.
** caution: you cannot reduce the outer diameter of a clean bezel too much:
the inner channel for the wire spring may be exposed and damaged.
-- you can safely remove 0.75 mm from the average clean bezel for a total reduction in diameter of 1.5mm. That is a good amount.

To reduce the height of a clean bezel: press the top face against a belt or disc sander.
The height of most bezels with an insert cannot really be altered. The insert sits only a very small amount below the top face of the bezel. If the insert is fully exposed, it may be easily damaged.

Remember: you cannot reduce the height of a bezel by grinding down the bottom face.
The face is thin and helps to create the channel for the wire spring.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2.
Yes, Acetone will remove the paint from all standard Vostok produced bezels.
.


----------



## Christopher.NYC

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> Hi Christopher,
> 
> 1.
> Most bezels of a smaller diameter and lower height are most often the standard original, non-insert Vostok bezels that come with the Amphibia and Komandirskie.
> Nearly all replacement or 'after-market' bezels are wide because they use the Seiko SKX bezel inserts.
> 
> All bezels produced to fit Vostok use the same size inserts: SKX (SKX007)
> * except bezels from: AM-Diver and Meranom -- these use a different size / shape
> 
> The width of the inserts dictates the width of the bezel, so it is difficult to have a bezel with an outer diameter of less than 39mm. The insert width also dictates that the bezels must be a certain minimum height, or thickness, so that the top part of the bezel with the insert is high enough to clear the crown of the smaller case models. Thus many bezels are made with a smaller diameter lower portion, or skirt, and a wider top portion. This skirt allows space for the crown, especially for the smaller cases.
> 
> *Width: * All bezels that use Seiko SKX inserts are always 39 - 40 mm wide -- _minimum _
> They cannot have a smaller outside diameter becase the insert is 38mm OD.
> 
> *Height / Thickness: *All bezels that use Seiko SKX inserts are always:
> 3.5 mm thick -- _minimum. _Most are 4 mm and taller.​
> One of the replacement bezels with the lowest height is a 'Murphy' bezel:
> Murphy Manufacturing
> 
> Here is a comparison to a similar bezel by 'arkustime':
> 
> View attachment 16058136
> 
> photo: ? (labels - mine)​
> One of the most minimalist designs using an insert is the 'arkustime smooth edge' bezel.
> It is not much smaller than many other bezels but its design gives it a smaller and less obtrusive appearance. It is a good choice for a minimalist insert bezel.
> View attachment 16057322
> 
> photo and seller: arkustime​
> *'Clean' Bezels:*
> 
> There are two types of 'clean' bezel:
> 
> angled slope
> 'vintage' or rounded style
> 
> Perhaps the rounded style is better for you.
> 
> Here are two examples:
> 
> View attachment 16057001
> 
> photo and seller: sale4you1 (there may be other sellers)
> .
> View attachment 16057005
> 
> photo: HorstSt
> bezel: previous sellers: zavar011 / sale4you1 (there may be other sellers)
> - it may be produced again. Ask sellers for info.
> .
> ----------------
> 
> *Modifying / Machining a Bezel to Alter the Diameter or Shape:*
> 
> Consider this if you cannot find a bezel of the size or shape you prefer.
> Some of us have altered our bezels using simple tools.
> For example, you can put a bezel onto a wood or plastic dowel or rod to hold it as you rotate the bezel edge against a belt or disc sander. This will reduce the diameter of any bezel.
> 
> * caution: if the bezel uses an insert: you must keep a narrow outer lip for the insert channel
> ** caution: you cannot reduce the outer diameter of a clean bezel too much:
> the inner channel for the wire spring may be exposed and damaged.
> 
> To reduce the height of a clean bezel: press the top face against a belt or disc sander.
> The height of most bezels with an insert cannot really be altered. The insert sits only a very small amount below the top face of the bezel. If the insert is fully exposed, it may be easily damaged.
> Remember: you cannot reduce the height of a bezel by grinding down the bottom face.
> The face is thin and helps to create the channel for the wire spring.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 2.
> Yes, Acetone will remove the paint from all standard Vostok produced bezels.
> .


wow thank you so much. this was far more informative and thorough than I thought id get. answered p much all my questions - my watch will be here in mid to late october so im really looking forward to using your advice. thanks so much again!!


----------



## trapper777

I have a (what I think is an) interesting question for the minds here: What was the smallest 200m amphibia ever produced, including vintage, rare/experimental models, and other wise?


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

trapper777 said:


> What was the smallest 200m amphibia ever produced, including vintage, rare/experimental models, and other wise?


.
My guess is the modern 420 case.
There was a mini or student / youth model of Komandirskie that was smaller, but I assume only 100m water resistance. 
.


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

In my parts box, I found two Vostok caseback rings that do not fit to any Amphibia caseback (both the standard automatic and the flat one for handwinding movements). Their inner diameter is just a little too small. The outer diameter and the thread fit to the Amphibia cases without any problem. Does anybody know to which kind of caseback these rings might belong?


----------



## Avidfan

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> In my parts box, I found two Vostok caseback rings that do not fit to any Amphibia caseback (both the standard automatic and the flat one for handwinding movements). Their inner diameter is just a little too small. The outer diameter and the thread fit to the Amphibia cases without any problem. Does anybody know to which kind of caseback these rings might belong?


They are auto-Komandirskie rings for the case types 09, 52 and 92 etc., some of the casebacks for these have an orca whale or Russian coat of arms (double-headed eagle) some casebacks are rather plain with just the Russian words for automatic and waterproof...


----------



## Irreversible Mechanism

Thanks so much! You've helped me a lot with your expertise! I found two of these old Orca casebacks in my Vostok collection and one of them was fastened with a "standard" Amphibia ring, the other with another one of these slightly smaller rings. So I swapped the standard one with a "correct" smaller one from my box and now I can complete one mod that had been lacking a standard ring before.


----------



## Highbrass

I am interested in purchasing this watch new however I have no experience in the process. I have noticed that this watch is available from several sites at varying prices.
It would appear to be available direct from the Vostok factory for aprox $180 US ? Most all the other sellers I see are a bit more money. So am I missing something here?
Am I missing some info on availability / Shipping ? Any info or help appreciated.





Купить часы Каталог товаров AMFIBIA-TURBINA недорого


Купите часы Каталог товаров AMFIBIA-TURBINA по низким ценам с доставкой. Сертификаты в наличии. Широкий ассортимент. 100% оригинал. Удобные варианты оплаты. Каталог на сайте.




online.vostokinc.com


----------



## trapper777

Highbrass said:


> I am interested in purchasing this watch new however I have no experience in the process. I have noticed that this watch is available from several sites at varying prices.
> It would appear to be available direct from the Vostok factory for aprox $180 US ? Most all the other sellers I see are a bit more money. So am I missing something here?
> Am I missing some info on availability / Shipping ? Any info or help appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Купить часы Каталог товаров AMFIBIA-TURBINA недорого
> 
> 
> Купите часы Каталог товаров AMFIBIA-TURBINA по низким ценам с доставкой. Сертификаты в наличии. Широкий ассортимент. 100% оригинал. Удобные варианты оплаты. Каталог на сайте.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> online.vostokinc.com


I bought a Vostok off of the factory website and it was indeed cheaper versus other shops. Shipping was the same.


----------



## Highbrass

trapper777 said:


> I bought a Vostok off of the factory website and it was indeed cheaper versus other shops. Shipping was the same.


Thanks Trapper


----------



## do_checkdate

Related to buying Vostoks, does Dmitri from Meranom just sometimes find watches he forgot in the back of a drawer? There was (emphasis was) a (single, solitary) 540001 in stock on meranom just now and as I understand it that model has been discontinued for a while.


----------



## jimzilla

Is there such a thing as dial face cleaner? possibly a liquid that you can submerge a dial face into to clean? 
anything like that? thanks, James.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

jimzilla said:


> Is there such a thing as dial face cleaner? possibly a liquid that you can submerge a dial face into to clean?
> anything like that? thanks, James.


.
The 'Before and After' thread has some advice throughout.

The #1 word of advice given: 'No Solvents'.

There is usually a thin coating of clear lacquer or similar on top of the paint.
Both this coating and the paint will be destoyed by a solvent.

It would be helpful to have a cleaner such as 'One Dip' that is used for hairsprings. Just a quick dip and you are finished.
Unfortunately for dials, it's usually manual labour and sometimes plain water or mild soaps.


----------



## jimzilla

Thank you Matt, I did not think there was but one never knows.
As always thank you sir and I hope things are going great, best wishes, James.


----------



## jimzilla




----------



## SinanjuStein

I should add to what Matt said, i do have a decent vial of hairspring solution and there isn't an easy way to dip a dial in it without getting a different container. Also the danger of how lume and or painted indices may react to the solution.

If you really want to try, cotton swabs with a bit of that liquid should work about as well as cotton swabs with saliva and or a bit of water or perhaps better. i've never quite gave it a try.


----------



## Rocco

Is there a good source for the original black bakelite bezels, the ones with a painted lume pip rather than the applied pip? I have no problem scouring eBay for loose bezels or donor watches, I just want to know if there is a simpler way. Thanks!


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

.
Modtok Conversion Case








​_photos: vostokmods.com_

Custom 090 Amphibia Case
available from _Vostok Mods_
https://vostokmods.com/

$124 USD​

3mm thick double domed *sapphire crystal *
- exactly like a Seiko SKX crystal with a friction fit using a SKX crystal gasket​

SKX compatible *uni-directional bezel click spring*
Uses *any SKX type bezel *
uses the same long stem as these cases: 020, 090, 100, 110, 150, 670
crown tube gasket included
caseback gasket: uses standard Vostok Amphibia gasket
caseback: uses standard Vostok Amphibia caseback
200m water resistance is retained (seller claims it was tested to 350m - no failure ) 

*Hand Clearance:*​​The dome shape of the crystal is taller than a Vostok crystal.​It is double domed. (upward dome on inside and outside)​= NO hand clearance problems​= MORE clearance versus a standard Vostok Amphibia crystal​








_photo: GrumpyOldPom_










_photo: GrumpyOldPom
.
----------------_
See this WUS thread:

Modtok case with Sapphire crystal

---------------
.
If you buy one, please post photos of your complete Vostok mod in the thread: 'Vostok Mod....'
.


----------



## jimzilla

Hey Matt how about a link to the site.
Thanks for posting, I have seen those before but didnt know where to buy one, thanks, James.


----------



## Ligavesh

Probably a dumb and already answered question, but is the glass of the 470/320 interchangable/same with the glass of the 119 or of the modern Amphibias?


----------



## Ligavesh

Ligavesh said:


> Probably a dumb and already answered question, but is the glass of the 470/320 interchangable/same with the glass of the 119 or of the modern Amphibias?


bump


----------



## mariomart

Ligavesh said:


> Probably a dumb and already answered question, but is the glass of the 470/320 interchangable/same with the glass of the 119 or of the modern Amphibias?


Yes, they are all interchangeable. The only thing that differs is the change in side profile with the 119 crystal.


----------



## R A Caro

I bought a Komandirskie 350503 and I bought this bezel from Meranom. The description says it fits case size 350, but when I try to put it on the watch it’s loose and doesn’t snap into place the way the stock bezel does. What am I doing wrong? I inserted the circular spring into the grooves of the bezel.


----------



## jimzilla

Maybe you have to fiddle with the bezel wire, make it a smaller diameter?


----------



## R A Caro

jimzilla said:


> Maybe you have to fiddle with the bezel wire, make it a smaller diameter?


Thank you. I realized that are different sized wires for Vostok bezels. I played with it too much and I think I ruined the one that was in there. Now I’m waiting for an order to come in from Russia.


----------



## cookiemonster94

I've bought an automatic Vostok with a 24 hour movement and it keeps stopping overnight or when im not wearing it a little while.
When I set the time or give it a slight shake it goes again. I've been told thas the watch "breaking in".
I've never heard of it. The Bezel is very loose on this one too. I've already played with the wire but it doesnt do anything.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

cookiemonster94 said:


> I've bought an automatic Vostok with a 24 hour movement and it keeps stopping...
> 
> The Bezel is very loose on this one too.


.
Hello, 

1. We need more information: 


does it only stop when you are not wearing it?
if you manually wind the watch, does the movement stop during the night or when you don't wear it?
are there unusual sounds from the Rotor? (very fast spinning or grating sound, etc.)


2. Bezel:


this is not an exact science and there are several things you can try to make the bezel fit more tightly
add a slight inward curve to 2 opposing sections of the wire
--- if necessary, add one or two more 
.


----------



## cookiemonster94

It only stops when im not wearing it.
The watch only stops when im not wearing it, but since im not wearing it over night, thats where it stops most times.
I dont think there is a grating sound, when I give the watch a whirl, I can hear the rotor spin. Relatively quick it sounds like.
After a while the rotor stops, I assume its been fully wound then and goes no further. If I give it a hard spin, it will restart the process.
I cannot open the caseback, its so tightly screwed down.

And I've already added a curve to the wire, I actually have trouble getting te bezel on now, I have to use a lot of pressure.


----------



## cookiemonster94

Weird, it seems to be working now.
I haven't wornt he watch since I took it off to sleep yesterday. 
Left it on my desk, as I got home from work it was still ticking.
That means that it kept running for about a day before I checked on it.
I will keep an eye on it.


----------



## cookiemonster94

Its still stopping. I dont know how long runs it but its not 30 hours.
So there are some options:
The rotor does not wind properly, I try to wind it using the rotor.
I just twist it until the rotor no longer turns. It stops when the spring is fully wound. (Or so I think it does)
Something is wrong with the watch itself.
As I've put the watch back into its box, I accidentally dropped the box from my desk, which is about 60 cm high.
My floor is PVC tiled. 
The caseback might be too tight?
Its screwed down so tight that I cant open it.

I am hesitant to send it back to Meranom since I heard terrible things about their service.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

cookiemonster94 said:


> Its still stopping.


.
_"... I try to wind it using the rotor.
I just twist it until the rotor no longer turns. It stops when the spring is fully wound... "_

- I think you have the wrong name of the parts.
It is the 'Crown' that you turn to wind a watch.
- An automatic watch crown will _not_ 'stop' when the Mainspring is wound fully because the Mainspring is designed to slip.


_"The caseback might be too tight? "_

- Don't worry, that should not be a problem.

-----------------
Question:

If you wind it manually, using the Crown and turn the Crown 50 half turns, using a 'ratcheting' type of movement back and forth, does the watch run?

-- Does it then run when you wear it and when you don't wear it?

-----------------

Do not be afraid to send it back to Meranom.
Most reports of their customer service are positive.
I would not hesitate to send it back if it is still under warranty.
There have been good reports from others who have had the same issue and it was repaired.
.


----------



## cookiemonster94

No, I didnt get my parts wrong.
I twist the watch either on or not on my wrist to wind it.
Once its fully wound, the rotor no longer moves.
I can no longer hear or feel it move.
As a test I've manually wound the watch using the crown.
With 20 crown turns the watch will run about 24 hours.


This auto Vostok is odd.
Either something is wrong with the watch or I am using it wrong.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

cookiemonster94 said:


> Once its fully wound, the rotor no longer moves.
> 
> With 20 crown turns the watch will run about 24 hours.


.
Most likely one of the Reversing Wheels is malfunctioning.
The Rotor should never stop when the Mainspring is wound fully.
It appears the Rotor is not able to fully wind the Mainspring.

I would return it.

Some owners choose to fix it themselves. This requires a few tools.
One or both Reversing Wheels may need lubrication or replacement.
Some owners say they have had success by simply swapping the positions of the wheels.


If you are not interested in this work, I would return it.
If it is still under warranty you should take advantage of the warranty.
.


----------



## cookiemonster94

Matt_Bored_O said:


> If you are not interested in this work, I would return it.
> If it is still under warranty you should take advantage of the warranty.


It's a brand new watch so that wouldnt be a problem.
I've done more testing and the rotor turns both ways without a problem if I twist the watch.
It might be something else.


----------



## Matt_Bored_O

cookiemonster94 said:


> I've done more testing and the rotor turns both ways without a problem if I twist the watch.
> It might be something else.


.
A Reversing Wheel problem is often intermittent and may not always be apparent by moving the watch.
It is not an uncommon problem and it is the most likely problem according to the symptoms that you describe.

There have been a few reports of problems of the 3rd Winding Ratchet Wheel but your problem is most likely the Reversing Wheels.

See this:
Vostok 2415 / 2416 Self Winding Function, and Reversing...










_photo: mine: you may use it freely without permission_
.


----------



## cookiemonster94

Matt_Bored_O said:


> .
> A Reversing Wheel problem is often intermittent and may not always be apparent by moving the watch.
> It is not an uncommon problem so it is the most likely problem according to the symptoms that you describe.


I'll try to open the watch and see if I can spot anything.
Or maybe I should just send it back to meranom.
I should test the other watch (I bought two, they were in the same package) to see if it has the same issues.
Thanks for your time and patience.


----------



## Rocco

I have a question about the difference between Komandirskie and Amphibia crystals and how they relate to hand clearance. I know that the Amphibia crystal is thicker than the Komandirskie crystal; is there more clearance between the dial and crystal with a Komandirskie crystal? Or is the clearance the same between the two, with the additional thickness of the Amphibia being on the "outside" of the crystal? Thanks!


----------



## trapper777

Hi guys, I have a question.

I am getting a komandirskie for my younger brother. He has a disability and may have trouble remembering to wind the watch.

If it turns out to be a problem, I would like to swap the watch to an automatic movement, and maintain some sort of gold case like the one he chose. My understanding is that I can't use the old case, so is there any vostok 2416-compatible cases that either are gold plated, or are otherwise made of brass (I can strip off the chrome if needed)?


----------



## jimzilla

You need to start off with a model that already has a rotor in it..... 2416 or 2415, no date would be easier yet as you don't have to worry about setting the date. (2415 movement).


----------



## jimzilla

I have a question about regulating a watch. I have had many watches that after regulating the watch and putting on the case back they either speed up or slow down, what is causing this? I am not touching anything in the watch.


----------



## jimzilla

This hasn't ever happened to anyone else? no opinions, guesses or theories?


----------



## oa.design.werke

jimzilla said:


> I have a question about regulating a watch. I have had many watches that after regulating the watch and putting on the case back they either speed up or slow down, what is causing this? I am not touching anything in the watch.


You are going to get completely different readings based on whether the watch is worn on the wrist or left sitting. 

The hairspring and balance wheel are designed to work best when the watch is being used and moved around in daily activities etc.


----------



## jimzilla

Yes but why does the SPD change 10-30 SPD + or - when the caseback is put back on the watch?


----------



## oa.design.werke

jimzilla said:


> Yes but why does the SPD change 10-30 SPD + or - when the caseback is put back on the watch?


I guess the question is: are you wearing the watch after screwing the back on? Or are you leaving it sitting there on the bench?

If its the former the SPD variance is pretty normal for these movements, if it is the latter that doesn't really make sense since the case back doesn't have anything to do with the escapement or components of the balance and how they operate.

One thing could be how much you tightened or loosened the balance screw if you messed with it at all. It could change the timing slightly.


----------



## jimzilla

I regulate the watch and put it back on the time grapher, I do not wear it. I don't tighten any of the screws.
I just put the case back on and tighten it as tight as it was before, It is the oddest thing.


----------



## oa.design.werke

jimzilla said:


> I regulate the watch and put it back on the time grapher, I do not wear it. I don't tighten any of the screws.
> I just put the case back on and tighten it as tight as it was before, It is the oddest thing.


I think what is happening, (and correct me if i'm wrong anybody), is that you should be timing the watches with the case back installed from the beginning. I think that the microphone on the timegrapher is getting an incorrect reading with the caseback off vs on and that is why you are getting such a large variance in your readings. At least that is my best guess.


----------



## Toddstang

I have been looking for Amphibia parts and on my search, vostok-watches24.com is the only place I can find the parts.
Is this place good to go and is shipping to the US expensive?
Kind of hard to figure the pricing out in US $.


----------



## jimzilla

oa.design.werke said:


> I think what is happening, (and correct me if i'm wrong anybody), is that you should be timing the watches with the case back installed from the beginning. I think that the microphone on the timegrapher is getting an incorrect reading with the caseback off vs on and that is why you are getting such a large variance in your readings. At least that is my best guess.


You may have solved the mystery? that does make sense.
Next time I regulate a watch I will put the case back on and see if it helps oa.design.werke, thanks so much .....


----------



## jimzilla

Toddstang said:


> I have been looking for Amphibia parts and on my search, vostok-watches24.com is the only place I can find the parts.
> Is this place good to go and is shipping to the US expensive?
> Kind of hard to figure the pricing out in US $.


It depends on the parts you are looking for, here are some links comrade.


Vostok watch Amphibian, Komandirskie, Retro buy with worldwide delivery.

Buy Komandirskie watch Vostok in the official online store Komandirskie.com

VOSTOK WATCHES - Vostok-Watches24 autorisierter VOSTOK Händler

VostokMod Shop | Custom parts for Vostok Watch Modders

FAVINOV WATCH MANUFACTORY | eBay Stores 

Modstok | We have ways of making you mod.

One Second Closer – Custom Watch Parts

Lumed Ceramic Bezel Inserts – L.C.B.I 

Murphy Manufacturing Co., Inc.

Seiko Mods Parts - Bezel Inserts | namokiMODS – Tagged "lumed"

Seiko Mods - Watch Modification Parts - DLW MOD Web Store 

Raffles Time | eBay Stores

BEZELS WITH INSERTS FOR VOSTOK WATCHES - Vostok-Watches24 autorisierter VOSTOK Händler

Seiko Mods & Watch Mod Parts | Crystaltimes USA

Bezel inserts

BESTRUS | eBay Stores


----------



## time4d

Are there any active Vostok modders in Singapore? Specifically, those who do stuff like superluminova painting on dials, etc?


----------



## oa.design.werke

time4d said:


> Are there any active Vostok modders in Singapore? Specifically, those who do stuff like superluminova painting on dials, etc?


There are quite a few dials available already painted with SL in quite a few different styles. I have bought a few to try out and the quality is actually really good. They are really bright when lit up. Honestly I think this is a far better option than trying to do it yourself, but I have used my own lume on all my vostok dials to make the pips brighter and to change the color to blue. The dials I am talking about can be found on ebay for like $13-30.


----------



## time4d

Yes, agreed with you. It's easy to purchase online. However, need someone to open it up, install it, etc. I'm not that advanced so am unable to handle that.


----------



## oa.design.werke

time4d said:


> Yes, agreed with you. It's easy to purchase online. However, need someone to open it up, install it, etc. I'm not that advanced so am unable to handle that.


It can be daunting for sure. Good news is that If you were to buy the dial, asking a guy to install it for you is a lot more realistic than asking someone to lume something for you. 

Luming is a major pain.


----------



## trapper777

Hi guys,
3 weeks ago I ordered two watches from the factory store, which I’ve ordered from before, but this time I received absolutely no confirmation email or anything. I emailed them about a week ago and also received no reply. Given your experience with the factory, at what point should I dispute the charge?


----------



## oa.design.werke

trapper777 said:


> Hi guys,
> 3 weeks ago I ordered two watches from the factory store, which I’ve ordered from before, but this time I received absolutely no confirmation email or anything. I emailed them about a week ago and also received no reply. Given your experience with the factory, at what point should I dispute the charge?


It's going to be months. Sit tight.


----------



## steros

I bought a 1190 ”tonneau” Amphibia from late 70’s or early 80’s and I’m looking for replacement parts or donor watch to replace some parts to make it all original.
Looking for a domed crown. Are there different types of domed Vostok crowns? Do I have to find one from another 2409 Amphibia? Or are they all the same, so that I can use one from a 2414 Komandirskie or from the smaller ”cadet”?
Is the crown and stem one integral part or separate? Can I keep the stem and only replace the crown itself?


----------



## 979greenwich

They are not the same. You need a domed crown from an eared, or early tonneau Amphibia. Only the first ones had a domed crown.
Very hard to come by.
Komandirskie domed crown is not the same.
And, basically, no, you cannot separate the crown and stem.


----------



## steros

979greenwich said:


> They are not the same. You need a domed crown from an eared, or early tonneau Amphibia. Only the first ones had a domed crown.
> Very hard to come by.
> Komandirskie domed crown is not the same.
> And, basically, no, you cannot separate the crown and stem.


Thank you!
I believe mine should have domed crown, I got that comment in another thread here. The one in Mroatmans collection doesn’t, however.
And here it is with domed crown, photo of one with the same dial and hands from vostokamphibiacccp.altervista.org:


----------



## 979greenwich

Here you can see the catalogue image of the watch with a domed crown:








A soviet-era Vostok Amphibian survey


I was influenced by 93EXCivic's post requesting some amphibian history to survey the Vostok catalogs I have available to see, according to that limited sample, when the various soviet-era amphibian types appeared. As a "history" this leaves a lot to be desired but I thought it was interesting...




www.watchuseek.com




But it's not a major issue as far as I'm concerned. 
The worn out domed crown was probably replaced with a newer crown during service. 
There's also a slim possibility that the newer type crown was factory installed on an older type watch in the first half of the '80s.


----------



## steros

steros said:


> I bought a 1190 ”tonneau” Amphibia from late 70’s or early 80’s and I’m looking for replacement parts or donor watch to replace some parts to make it all original.
> Looking for a domed crown. Are there different types of domed Vostok crowns? Do I have to find one from another 2409 Amphibia? Or are they all the same, so that I can use one from a 2414 Komandirskie or from the smaller ”cadet”?
> Is the crown and stem one integral part or separate? Can I keep the stem and only replace the crown itself?


I ment 2209, not 2409, obviously…


----------



## trapper777

oa.design.werke said:


> It's going to be months. Sit tight.


I am used to the ordering speeds, but is it normal not to receive the automated confirmation email? I am worried that the payment software glitched out and charged me without placing the order


----------



## time4d

oa.design.werke said:


> It's going to be months. Sit tight.


Months......???


----------



## oa.design.werke

time4d said:


> Months......???


Unfortunately true, unless you get real lucky. I would expect 2 months at least.


----------



## time4d

I bought from Zenitar more than 10 years back, but he strangely disappeared


----------



## steros

979greenwich said:


> Here you can see the catalogue image of the watch with a domed crown:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A soviet-era Vostok Amphibian survey
> 
> 
> I was influenced by 93EXCivic's post requesting some amphibian history to survey the Vostok catalogs I have available to see, according to that limited sample, when the various soviet-era amphibian types appeared. As a "history" this leaves a lot to be desired but I thought it was interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's not a major issue as far as I'm concerned.
> The worn out domed crown was probably replaced with a newer crown during service.
> There's also a slim possibility that the newer type crown was factory installed on an older type watch in the first half of the '80s.


Of Course. There were variations, probably. And it is fine with either crown. But, interestingly, in the 1983 catalogue this specifik (older) model is shown with rounded crown and other (later designs) tonneau amphibias have the flat crown. Catalogo Boctok (Wostok) 1983 - La (mia) finestra sul web (finestraweb.net)


----------



## trapper777

trapper777 said:


> I am used to the ordering speeds, but is it normal not to receive the automated confirmation email? I am worried that the payment software glitched out and charged me without placing the order


Ok, for anyone frantically searching for the same info in the future: Sometimes the official Vostok website simply doesn’t send any info whatsoever, no automated confirmation email even, and you will be fine. My stuff came today, less than a month after the order date.

this should be a good christmas!


----------



## pivoproseem

I have fitted a 2416b (with metal movement holder) in an old 119 case ( old 090 type case) , but there is up and down play due to the movement holder being not as thick as the one holding the original 2209. Any easy solution to this? I don't know of any slightly thicker movement holders available, and I don't believe I could sucessfully cut one from shim stock.


----------



## MAKSEPIC123

Would it be possible to remove the whole date complication from the 2416b movement without affecting the timekeeping function. 
Would it basically turn it into a 2415. 01 or would it be slightly different. 
Thanks in advance


----------



## Moewaheed

WindyCityWatch said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply Matt, much appreciated (long time lurker, only recently finally made an account).
> 
> I've done tons of mods, but this is admittingly my first attempt of a Frankenstein one. I have an extra 710 case that I can do a test fit in, but good point about the case back. I know the 2426 with the offset seconds hand is the "normal" height, and can seemingly fit in the 650 case, but it's the center seconds. That has my cause for concern.
> 
> komandirskie.com claims it can only fit the K-34 it came with, but don't offer much more info on that front. I got most of my info about the movement from them and not Meranom. And every site I've visited and asked from say that the GMT hand is "Unavailable" or "out of stock" and don't know when they'll have them in again... luckily I have tons of spare hands that I don't mind canabalizing, but thought I'd check with others first to see if I could avoid that
> 
> Once I get everything in, I'll be sure to check back. Thanks again!
> [/QUOT





WindyCityWatch said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply Matt, much appreciated (long time lurker, only recently finally made an account).
> 
> I've done tons of mods, but this is admittingly my first attempt of a Frankenstein one. I have an extra 710 case that I can do a test fit in, but good point about the case back. I know the 2426 with the offset seconds hand is the "normal" height, and can seemingly fit in the 650 case, but it's the center seconds. That has my cause for concern.
> 
> komandirskie.com claims it can only fit the K-34 it came with, but don't offer much more info on that front. I got most of my info about the movement from them and not Meranom. And every site I've visited and asked from say that the GMT hand is "Unavailable" or "out of stock" and don't know when they'll have them in again... luckily I have tons of spare hands that I don't mind canabalizing, but thought I'd check with others first to see if I could avoid that
> 
> Once I get everything in, I'll be sure to check back. Thanks again!


Can you tell whether it is possible to fit a date wheel on a 2426 movement without the date?


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## Xqlusive

I have been searching the internet but also this forum, is there an detailed guide for buying the vintage tonneau 200m type of amphibia? What i mean is an guide so i know what to look for, you see tons of mixed movement parts, different hands, case backs, bezels etc.

Written text, sometimes only Boctok, but also antimagnetic.
Which hands; sometimes the second hand is red, sometimes it is not
Movement 2009, some have mixed parts (which i avoid), but some have the stars and polished movement, some the sandpapered dull type looking movement. which logos to look for, etc.
Bezel typel; i read a lot of stories that the bezel is incorrect but have no clue which 1 is correct

I am honestly lost, preference is to buy an later 70s to early 80s type.


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## 979greenwich

Just find what you like and ask in the franken thread. We'll help. 
Basically; older models; paddle hands, domed crown, brass second hand, not antimagnetic.
Later models; flat crown, classic hands, red second hand, antimagnetic.
Only one type of bezel on all tonneau amphibians - red/black/red/black/red dot.
If you see stars on the movement then it has definitely been tampered with. You're looking for a flat movement marked 2209 SU.


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## Dependent Mess

Hello! Hope this is the right place. I'm planning a mod job, where I would have a 24 hour dial with a subseconds. I'm wondering if there is any way of modding a 2431 to have small seconds should I just use a 2426.12 small seconds GMT movement?


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## kajaar

Hi! Just received a brand new Neptune from Meranom and found out that the crown seems to be stuck in third position. Screwing the crown in place does not engage the second (winding) position since after unscrewing the crown is instantly in the third position or the crown turns "freely". I was able to get the crown in the second position while bending the stem all in different directions, but screwing and unscrewing once again returned the third position. 

Found quite a lot of discussions regarding "tight tolerances" but this would be quite ridiculous.


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## jimzilla

Has anyone used these plastic self adhesive dial faces? any tips or tricks?
I assume you peel and stick to the movement? wasn't able to find instructions, thanks, James.


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## Simon

979greenwich said:


> Just find what you like and ask in the franken thread. We'll help.
> Basically; older models; paddle hands, domed crown, brass second hand, not antimagnetic.
> Later models; flat crown, classic hands, red second hand, antimagnetic.
> Only one type of bezel on all tonneau amphibians - red/black/red/black/red dot.
> If you see stars on the movement then it has definitely been tampered with. You're looking for a flat movement marked 2209 SU.


Hi 979G - just found this post and its really helpful

I bought my first Russian watch -amphibian - and love it - I can see a whole shift in my collecting 
However I have found some pics similar & read descriptions- also wondered if mine was a franken or transition or ....????

The watchmaker who sold it (and who is Russian) said it was from the 1970's, however I found a picture similar in a catalogue dates 1983. That said, mine has the earlier brass (not red) seconds hand; a domed plastic crystal; not antimagnetic; a domed crown - but later non paddle hands (which under loupe look re-lumed I think & the red/black in bezel refilled by the seller)

would value your thoughts pls


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## steros

The Vostok Amphibia with this case, the 1190 ”tonneau” case, was introduced in 1979. The very first ones had other dials than yours, and paddle hands. Yours should be from the early 80’s. The hands are correct with that dial. Here you can read more about them.









Vostok Amphibia Type 119 – Second Generation


In our earlier article about the Vostok Amphibia we introduced the first model developed, the Type 350, of this magnificent and iconic dive watch, which has gone through a number of iterations since…




www.safonagastrocrono.club


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## Irreversible Mechanism

jimzilla said:


> Has anyone used these plastic self adhesive dial faces? any tips or tricks?
> I assume you peel and stick to the movement? wasn't able to find instructions, thanks, James.


Yes, just stick'em on a 2415. I did so with the red 3-6-9-12 from Vostokmod and it works fine. There is even enough room for the hands.


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## Irreversible Mechanism

Dependent Mess said:


> Hello! Hope this is the right place. I'm planning a mod job, where I would have a 24 hour dial with a subseconds. I'm wondering if there is any way of modding a 2431 to have small seconds should I just use a 2426.12 small seconds GMT movement?


There is no 24 hour Vostok movement with a small second subdial AFAIK. So no chance for this combination. If you are a skilled watchmaker, you might use parts from a 2431 and put them in a 2426 to "slow" the hour hand down so to say but you won't find a Vostok dial with a 24 hour scale AND a small second subdial.


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## cgrad

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> There is no 24 hour Vostok movement with a small second subdial AFAIK. So no chance for this combination. If you are a skilled watchmaker, you might use parts from a 2431 and put them in a 2426 to "slow" the hour hand down so to say but you won't find a Vostok dial with a 24 hour scale AND a small second subdial.


Isn't the GMT hand on a 2426.12 also just a 24 hour hand? I suppose the movement will run fine with the 12 hour hand removed, and then you have a 24 hour watch with subseconds. 

I couldn't find any information on what the hole size of the GMT hand is, but I'm pretty sure it's different than for normal hour hands. So those would need to be modified.


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## Irreversible Mechanism

cgrad said:


> Isn't the GMT hand on a 2426.12 also just a 24 hour hand? I suppose the movement will run fine with the 12 hour hand removed, and then you have a 24 hour watch with subseconds.
> 
> I couldn't find any information on what the hole size of the GMT hand is, but I'm pretty sure it's different than for normal hour hands. So those would need to be modified.


Then just give it a try. The GMT hand hole diameter is surely larger than the one of the hour hand. You might try an hour hand from ETA, Seiko or Miyota that have a hole size about .1mm larger than Vostok.


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## Dependent Mess

Irreversible Mechanism said:


> There is no 24 hour Vostok movement with a small second subdial AFAIK. So no chance for this combination. If you are a skilled watchmaker, you might use parts from a 2431 and put them in a 2426 to "slow" the hour hand down so to say but you won't find a Vostok dial with a 24 hour scale AND a small second subdial.





cgrad said:


> Isn't the GMT hand on a 2426.12 also just a 24 hour hand? I suppose the movement will run fine with the 12 hour hand removed, and then you have a 24 hour watch with subseconds.
> 
> I couldn't find any information on what the hole size of the GMT hand is, but I'm pretty sure it's different than for normal hour hands. So those would need to be modified.





Irreversible Mechanism said:


> Then just give it a try. The GMT hand hole diameter is surely larger than the one of the hour hand. You might try an hour hand from ETA, Seiko or Miyota that have a hole size about .1mm larger than Vostok.



Yeah, the dial needs to be manufactured but I thought of just putting new indices on a 12h dial with subseconds. I haven't been able to find numeral indices for all even numbers up to 24, but I plan on doing the subdial with waterslide decals so maybe the whole dial will be made that way. 
I'm in no way a skilled watchmaker, or a skilled anything, but the little tinkering I have done have left me with some confidence. Unfounded confidence, perhaps, but I'm not breaking the bank if I accidentally add two movements to the spare parts drawer.


Instead of slowing down a small seconds movement I am wondering if it's doable to install a subseconds on a 2431. The third wheel runs the central seconds pinion in central seconds movements and in subseconds movements like 2403 or 2415.02 the pinion extends directly from the third wheel, right? If this is correct, then it might be possible to move the cover plate and third wheel from a subseconds movement to a 2431. Right? Or is it a stupid idea? I mean it is a stupid idea, but is it impossible? Am I missing something?


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## Jake_P

I hope I can can go ahead and post freely on this thread (?) - not sure if Matt moves things to better organise?.. Anyways, I have a good tip for bezel removal that I've been meaning to share. I have many bezels now and each seems to have their own quirks and work arounds to getting them off, due to spring tension/machining tolerance etc I kind of stumbled on a technique out of desperation on a particulary stubborn bezel that's not only free but risk free (no damage to case/bezel/yourself). I found that if just place say three finger nails (and I do mean your own attached ones!) spread out around the bezel and squeeze them all under the bezel at once, the combined spread of pressure can pop them off easily. It won't work for all but it's definately a thing to try first before bringing out the heavy guns


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## oa.design.werke

Does anyone still have their stock Vostok seconds hand after modding hands?

I've found that I prefer the size and shape of the stock Vostok second hand but I don't want to wait for one all the way from Russia. 

If anyone still has their original second hand after modding their watch, I am willing to buy it if they will mail it out to me! (Actually I want 2)


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## Irreversible Mechanism

I have a lot of of them in my box but I fear it will take as long from Germany to the US as it takes from Russia.


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## Klara

First of all, thanks to Matt for writing the guide which has helped a lot. Secondly, is the "one to three months" for Meranom to restock SE models still realistic? I've found one I really like but it's not available....


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## Victorv

Hello guys, someone knows how to addapt Seiko NH35 hands to Vostok 24xx? Or if its possible?


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## jimzilla

Victorv said:


> Hello guys, someone knows how to addapt Seiko NH35 hands to Vostok 24xx? Or if its possible?


Hi Victorv, contact possum king, he is one of our comrades and he specializes in this. good luck


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## Victorv

jimzilla said:


> Hi Victorv, contact possum king, he is one of our comrades and he specializes in this. good luck


Thank you so much James, so gently, as always

Will text him and see if he can help me

Many thanks my friend


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## Irreversible Mechanism

Victorv said:


> Hello guys, someone knows how to addapt Seiko NH35 hands to Vostok 24xx? Or if its possible?


You have to reduce the hour hand hole by 0.1mm with a pin vice. You have to be very careful but it's possible. Just make sure the hand doesn't pop out of the pin vice and don't use too much force! The Seiko minute hand fits on a Vostok movement. The second hand doesn't fit at all and can't be modified to fit properly AFAIK. You have to use a Vostok 24xx second hand there.


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## KiLLMasTer20

Would give anything for someone to help me find a bezel for this watch my be a bezel for a bezel or sell me one.


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## Yoeri40

hello folks,

one question. I have bought me a sandwich dial without date. Plan is to remove het whole date wheel and place the dail to gain some hight between the glass and te dail zo the hand can move freely. Is that possible and what do i have to remove?
Thx for the answers.


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## Odessa200

Yoeri40 said:


> hello folks,
> 
> one question. I have bought me a sandwich dial without date. Plan is to remove het whole date wheel and place the dail to gain some hight between the glass and te dail zo the hand can move freely. Is that possible and what do i have to remove?
> Thx for the answers.


the pinions that the hands are set on are longer (taller) with the movements with calendars. You can remove the calendar bridge and the dial will sit lower but this will not change the vertical location of the hands. If your new dial if thicker than the old one then it will be good. if the new dial is same thickness then the hands may look to hight above the dial ….
Once you unscrew the calendar bridge, just remove it and the calendar ring.

I hope this helps.


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## Yoeri40

Odessa200 said:


> the pinions that the hands are set on are longer (taller) with the movements with calendars. You can remove the calendar bridge and the dial will sit lower but this will not change the vertical location of the hands. If your new dial if thicker than the old one then it will be good. if the new dial is same thickness then the hands may look to hight above the dial ….
> Once you unscrew the calendar bridge, just remove it and the calendar ring.
> 
> I hope this helps.


Thx for your answer
only the calender ring and bridge nothing else?


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## Odessa200

Yoeri40 said:


> Thx for your answer
> only the calender ring and bridge nothing else?


there will be the calendar break that is spring loaded. Then 2 wheels of the date setting wheels. Look here starting from 4:40 till 6:30


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## Yoeri40

Odessa200 said:


> there will be the calendar break that is spring loaded. Then 2 wheels of the date setting wheels. Look here starting from 4:40 till 6:30


once again odessa200. I supose i do not have to remove the (dail washer) and hourwheel (5:30)?


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## Odessa200

Yoeri40 said:


> once again odessa200. I supose i do not have to remove the (dail washer) and hourwheel (5:30)?


of course not. You can remove it temporarily but then put it back or you will not have anything to put the hour hand on


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## jimzilla

Hello all, I am trying to extend the crown/stem on a 2416 by cutting the "waist" in the stem and then get the appropriate sized tubing..... see picture.
I am having trouble finding the correct size tubing, has anyone tried this or does anyone have any resources for miniature tubing?
Tubing OD is 1.18MM and the ID is .78MM
Pleas let me know, thanks so much, James.


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## segibbons03

So many vostoks to choose from, I can't decide....


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## Kotsov

jimzilla said:


> Hello all, I am trying to extend the crown/stem on a 2416 by cutting the "waist" in the stem and then get the appropriate sized tubing..... see picture.
> I am having trouble finding the correct size tubing, has anyone tried this or does anyone have any resources for miniature tubing?
> Tubing OD is 1.18MM and the ID is .78MM
> Pleas let me know, thanks so much, James.
> 
> View attachment 16689015



Syringe needles?


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## jimzilla

I thought of that but they are the wrong diameters, I will have my machine shop friend make me a couple.


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## Kotsov

jimzilla said:


> I thought of that but they are the wrong diameters, I will have my machine shop friend make me a couple.


Keep us updated as its an interesting project.


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## jimzilla

I hope it will work, the stem narrows down so after the coupling is made there will be no more waist
hopefully that wont cause a problem. I am sure the stem waists down for a reason.


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## 979greenwich

What type and size of a pin vice tool would one need to tighten a tube on a 2214/2234 second hand?


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## jimzilla

Can anyone recommend a set of mainspring winders that work on the Vostok and komanderskie?
please show pictures and part# so I know what to look for, thanks so much, James.


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## Odessa200

jimzilla said:


> Can anyone recommend a set of mainspring winders that work on the Vostok and komanderskie?
> please show pictures and part# so I know what to look for, thanks so much, James.


I recommend a set like this. You really just need one that has the right diameter that cover the Vostok barrel but a set gives you an ability to cover a verity of springs.


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## jimzilla

Thank you for the reply Odessa, much thanks sir.


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## Yoeri40

after a mod stopped working i decided to take the movement apart and to reassemble it for the first time. Every went good till i inspected the pallet fork an it seems that one juwel of the pallet fork is loose and orientated in the wrong possition. As far as i have experience (lol) Does anyone know where i could order an new ove for a vostok 2414 or does anyone have a spare or movement tot use for spare parts? I'm living in Blegium so please EU oriented!!!


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## Odessa200

Yoeri40 said:


> after a mod stopped working i decided to take the movement apart and to reassemble it for the first time. Every went good till i inspected the pallet fork an it seems that one juwel of the pallet fork is loose and orientated in the wrong possition. As far as i have experience (lol) Does anyone know where i could order an new ove for a vostok 2414 or does anyone have a spare or movement tot use for spare parts? I'm living in Blegium so please EU oriented!!!


If you went that far you can try to fix the fork by using shellac. It is not that hard and a bag of shellac is just a few $.


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## EnjoyWatches

Yoeri40 said:


> after a mod stopped working i decided to take the movement apart and to reassemble it for the first time. Every went good till i inspected the pallet fork an it seems that one juwel of the pallet fork is loose and orientated in the wrong possition. As far as i have experience (lol) Does anyone know where i could order an new ove for a vostok 2414 or does anyone have a spare or movement tot use for spare parts? I'm living in Blegium so please EU oriented!!!








Spare parts watches







www.vostok-watches24.com


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## pierre chaton

Is it currently possible to buy a flat caseback for an Amphibia? I don't see any other than from Russian stores.


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