# Accutron will be split off Bulova



## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

Interview with the president of Citizen Watches America in ablogtowatch.com was posted last week.

In the article he states that Accutron will be spun off from Bulova as a separate brand and that the electrostatic Accutron is coming:

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/interv...s-jeffrey-cohen-on-realigning-for-the-future/


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

tmathes said:


> Interview with the president of Citizen Watches America in ablogtowatch.com was posted last week.
> 
> In the article he states that Accutron will be spun off from Bulova as a separate brand and that the electrostatic Accutron is coming:
> 
> https://www.ablogtowatch.com/interv...s-jeffrey-cohen-on-realigning-for-the-future/


Oh my God 

YES

Pretty cool news

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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

Thanks for posting. It was a very interesting read about the restructuring of Citizen Watch Group in the U.S.A. and Accutron's split from Bulova. I do have to wonder if this could mean Accutron could be taking on the role of providing smartwatch technology for the Citizen Watch Group.


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## ReallyBored (Dec 19, 2018)

I'm glad to see that they're going to release the turbine watch!

But I'm curious about Accutron as a stand-alone brand. I don't think you can build an entire brand around the turbine. Maybe the Accutron brand will inherit all of the 262 khz watches going forward?

A bit off topic, but those Sinatra's look pretty snazzy!

Pic from Ariel's blog....


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

ReallyBored said:


> I'm glad to see that they're going to release the turbine watch!
> 
> But I'm curious about Accutron as a stand-alone brand. I don't think you can build an entire brand around the turbine. Maybe the Accutron brand will inherit all of the 262 khz watches going forward?
> 
> ...


My conjecture (200% speculation):  Citizen will fold a lot of "weirdo" or advanced technologies going forward into Accutron, that might also mean anything branded Citizen now would be Accutron. We might see the Curv and Precisionist line migrate to the Accutron brand, maybe some new products with the 0100 Citizen movement with the Accutron brand.

So what's left for Bulova? Fashion watches for one and digging up old designs and modernizing them (aka Archive line). Since Accutron is being split off that might explain why the Surfboard reissue wasn't enlarged and stuffed with the 262kHz movement. Again, just my guess, complete conjecture on my part.

As for the Sinatra line: Love the watches but no freakin' way I'd buy one with his name on the front of it. I'd wager the line won't sell due to that, Sinatra's "sell by" date is waaay past.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

tmathes said:


> My conjecture (200% speculation): Citizen will fold a lot of "weirdo" or advanced technologies going forward into Accutron, that might also mean anything branded Citizen now would be Accutron. We might see the Curv and Precisionist line migrate to the Accutron brand, maybe some new products with the 0100 Citizen movement with the Accutron brand.
> 
> So what's left for Bulova? Fashion watches for one and digging up old designs and modernizing them (aka Archive line). Since Accutron is being split off that might explain why the Surfboard reissue wasn't enlarged and stuffed with the 262kHz movement. Again, just my guess, complete conjecture on my part.
> 
> As for the Sinatra line: Love the watches but no freakin' way I'd buy one with his name on the front of it. I'd wager the line won't sell due to that, Sinatra's "sell by" date is waaay past.


That sounds pretty accurate

Accutron will the the 262khz movements and the freedom to make some more "techy/enthusiast" stuff

Bulova will stick to more classical designs and will probably HEAVILY lean into their 1930s-1950s back catalogue

They'll use Miyota automatic and quartz movements

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## BerutoSenpai (Sep 7, 2016)

Well, I hope one of them would go back to their roots, U.S.A.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

BerutoSenpai said:


> Well, I hope one of them would go back to their roots, U.S.A.


There is exactly one USA made mechanical movement at the moment and it's hand wound 

RGM

There was never an US made automatic

There are some USA assembled quartz movements coming out of FTS, the Ameriquartz (Citizen won't use them, that would be funding a competitor aka Titan watches out of India)

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## BerutoSenpai (Sep 7, 2016)

Commisar said:


> There is exactly one USA made mechanical movement at the moment and it's hand wound
> 
> RGM
> 
> ...


Yes I am aware of RGM, and just mentioned that brand on a separate thread a few minutes before posting here. 

I am a fan of manual wind though so it doesn't bother me if there was never a US made automatic.


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

BerutoSenpai said:


> Well, I hope one of them would go back to their roots, U.S.A.


Their designers are in the US.

As for US made movements, even in their heyday Bulova made a lot of their watches in Switzerland (they had a factory in Biel for decades). The original Accutrons were often made in Switzerland too.


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## BerutoSenpai (Sep 7, 2016)

tmathes said:


> Their designers are in the US.
> 
> As for US made movements, even in their heyday Bulova made a lot of their watches in Switzerland (they had a factory in Biel for decades). The original Accutrons were often made in Switzerland too.


Well it is something I am not aware of since I'm more of a Waltham fan, which also had their production on many different countries other than USA.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

tmathes said:


> Their designers are in the US.
> 
> As for US made movements, even in their heyday Bulova made a lot of their watches in Switzerland (they had a factory in Biel for decades). The original Accutrons were often made in Switzerland too.


Assembled in Switzerland (some of them)

The Accutron (Bulova version) movements were made in the USA

Bulova made all of their automatics in Switzerland and a lot of their hand wound mechanicals in Switzerland from the mid 1950s onwards.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/social...-labor/businesses-and-occupations/bulova-corp

In 1970, 12 of their 20 plants were in the USA.

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## arquitron (Jul 11, 2019)

Commisar said:


> Oh my God
> 
> YES
> 
> ...


It was about time. Accutron has enough horological weight as to become its own brand!


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## arquitron (Jul 11, 2019)

I wish Accutron would come out with a solar powered hyper high precision (HHP) tuning fork.


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

I don’t see Citizen moving their Eco Drove over to Accutron, it’s too engraved in their brand. Perhaps some type of hybrid? But the Turbine drive is exciting. Unfortunately, when you think of the cost for Accutron with rate of inflation from the 60’s and 70’s, the cost of the Turbine drive scares me a bit. 
It’ll be a niche market to be sure. Bulova didn’t hit it out of the park with the Accutron II line, so I wonder whom the market is for. Just us Accutron Heads? The Archive series has gotten some legs, and has been bringing in great reviews. The Devil Diver and the Surfboard have gotten good press all over the place, which only leaves the Bullhead from the first round of voting left to re-issue. The Sinatra series has a bit of the 23 with the Sunburst dials, and some more old flavor from the early 50’s like my great grandfathers watch (sans quartz of course)
I’m curious as to how this plays out. 


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

Commisar said:


> The Accutron (Bulova version) movements were made in the USA


Many (most?) Accutron tuning fork movements were made in the US but not all of them. Here's a photo of an Accutron movement for sale, it's engraved "Swiss Made".

https://www.chrono24.com/bulova/mov...k-watch-movement-4parts-b4132--id14799447.htm

I also located this:

https://www.accutron214.com/AccutronQ&A.htm

The page addresses the question here:

_ #06. How do I identify my particular model & what information is coded into the serial number?

214's were made in the USA and in Switzerland. Serial numbers that begin with a letter were made in the USA (ex: A12345). Serial #'s that begin with a number are Swiss made (ex: 1-234567). The serial number contains no other useful information about the watch. Inside of the back cover there is a 4 digit case number stamped in ink. That number is the key to all information about the model. Unfortunately, on many covers the printed case numbers have been removed during a previous cleaning._

The page doesn't address why some were US made, some Swiss.

Moving back to the present (and future) of Accutron, I hope they resurrect the 3 hander 262kHz movements as used in the discontinued Surveyor line with this new brand. Maybe we'll see a shrink of the 262kHz chronograph movement (as used in the Lunar Pilot) too. If anything please no more 'big ugly case' watches like the overly garnish Precisionist. I'm convinced the present Precisionist line is meant to be used as a weapon and as a watch.


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

tayloreuph said:


> I don't see Citizen moving their Eco Drove over to Accutron, it's too engraved in their brand. Perhaps some type of hybrid? But the Turbine drive is exciting. Unfortunately, when you think of the cost for Accutron with rate of inflation from the 60's and 70's, the cost of the Turbine drive scares me a bit.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My only gripe with something like the electrostatic concept is it smacks too much of Seiko's Kinetic line, namely, movement is what keeps the watch charged. I have one Kinetic (a Kinetic Direct Drive to be more precise), if you have several watches like I do it's a PITA to keep charged. And the 'winding' idea sounds great on paper until you realize it takes 45 sec. to put 6 hrs. of charge into the watch.

I can see this new e/s line being the same, so much 'fun' having to "shake-shake-shake" for extended periods of time to keep the battery (or ultra-low leakage capacitor perhaps?) charged up. Unlike a mechanical watch it's not a good idea to let the rechargeable cell go flat often, that's a fantastic way to damage it.

As for solar+262kHz movements, if you think the Lunar Pilot is big now...... :-d The other downside of solar is limitation in dial designs and textures. They've gotten a LOT better over the years but still there are limitations on what the designer can do with the dial when it has to let light through to the underlying solar cell.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

tmathes said:


> My only gripe with something like the electrostatic concept is it smacks too much of Seiko's Kinetic line, namely, movement is what keeps the watch charged. I have one Kinetic (a Kinetic Direct Drive to be more precise), if you have several watches like I do it's a PITA to keep charged. And the 'winding' idea sounds great on paper until you realize it takes 45 sec. to put 6 hrs. of charge into the watch.
> 
> I can see this new e/s line being the same, so much 'fun' having to "shake-shake-shake" for extended periods of time to keep the battery (or ultra-low leakage capacitor perhaps?) charged up. Unlike a mechanical watch it's not a good idea to let the rechargeable cell go flat often, that's a fantastic way to damage it.
> 
> As for solar+262kHz movements, if you think the Lunar Pilot is big now...... :-d The other downside of solar is limitation in dial designs and textures. They've gotten a LOT better over the years but still there are limitations on what the designer can do with the dial when it has to let light through to the underlying solar cell.


Electronic efficiency has gotten orders of magnitude better than where it was when the Seiko Kinetics came along. Citizen solar movements are usually good for 6 months of complete darkness and some are good for even longer.

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## ReallyBored (Dec 19, 2018)

If I ran Citizen, I would turn Accutron into a sort of proving ground for Miyota's super secret skunk works projects. 

But I don't run Citizen, so I'd settle for a few 262kHz 3-handers in the 36-40mm range, in men's styles. Sensible men's styles, not like the oversized Precisionists that look like they're about to transform into either an Autobot or a Decepticon.

About the Turbine, I'm certainly no expert, but if I read the descriptions correctly, it appears that the bottom two small turbines only generate electricity for the capacitor, while the upper large turbine drives the sweep seconds hand in place of a stepper motor. This being the case, it doesn't seem to me that both turbine systems are mutually exclusive. Sure, they both happen to appear in this particular watch, but if, say, the electricity turbines don't prove to be popular (maybe they're no more efficient than Seiko's kinetic quartz movements), then the drive turbines for the seconds hand could still continue in conventional battery powered watches. 

My understanding of electrostatic drives is that they are relatively low in power consumption. If the seconds hand drive turbine were adapted to the 262 kHz 3-hander, it would eliminate the power hungry stepper motor running at 16 beats per second. This would lead to smaller batteries, or longer battery life, and possibly down the line solar watches with sweep seconds hands.

My remaining questions about the Turbine watch have to do with the quartz timekeeping itself. Will it run at 32 kHz or 262 kHz? Any thermocompensation? If it just turns out to be a fairly pedestrian quartz movement with a novel power supply and a novel way to drive the seconds hand, will the WIS of the world still embrace it?


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

Any ideas about Bulova’s MotionQuartz? It’s a Miyota movement with an auto movement and a capacitor for energy storage. It’s a dead beat second hand. The second hand stutters when the power gets low. Take a lot of shaking to get the second hand to move (relatively) smoothly. But mine will got for a week on a good wind up. It’s not exactly what we’re talking about here, but seems more similar to the Seiko kinetic, if I’m reading this correctly. 


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

ReallyBored said:


> If I ran Citizen, I would turn Accutron into a sort of proving ground for Miyota's super secret skunk works projects.
> 
> But I don't run Citizen, so I'd settle for a few 262kHz 3-handers in the 36-40mm range, in men's styles. Sensible men's styles, not like the oversized Precisionists that look like they're about to transform into either an Autobot or a Decepticon.
> 
> ...


I think it'll be embraced, at least the "Spaceview" model

The seconds hand will also sweep just like a Spring Drive, pretty cool.

As for other Accutron releases.... A UHF Astronaut GMT sounds AMAZING.

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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

tayloreuph said:


> Any ideas about Bulova's MotionQuartz? It's a Miyota movement with an auto movement and a capacitor for energy storage. It's a dead beat second hand. The second hand stutters when the power gets low. Take a lot of shaking to get the second hand to move (relatively) smoothly. But mine will got for a week on a good wind up. It's not exactly what we're talking about here, but seems more similar to the Seiko kinetic, if I'm reading this correctly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Never heard of this critter. Care to give some details on it and when it was in production?


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## ReallyBored (Dec 19, 2018)

tayloreuph said:


> Any ideas about Bulova's MotionQuartz? It's a Miyota movement with an auto movement and a capacitor for energy storage. It's a dead beat second hand. The second hand stutters when the power gets low. Take a lot of shaking to get the second hand to move (relatively) smoothly. But mine will got for a week on a good wind up. It's not exactly what we're talking about here, but seems more similar to the Seiko kinetic, if I'm reading this correctly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I remember that you posted a pic of that watch recently.

Does it have a date code?


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## FL410 (Nov 30, 2017)

Commisar said:


> As for other Accutron releases.... A UHF Astronaut GMT sounds AMAZING.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


We need this...


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

ReallyBored said:


> I remember that you posted a pic of that watch recently.
> 
> Does it have a date code?


99. Part of their Mellinnea line of watches from Y2K. I don't know if they did any others with the movement.

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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Commisar said:


> Assembled in Switzerland (some of them)
> 
> The Accutron (Bulova version) movements were made in the USA
> 
> ...


I thought several of their earlier automatic movements like the 10COAC were made in the USA. Pic from Roland Ranfft.


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## mystic nerd (Aug 10, 2013)

John MS said:


> I thought several of their earlier automatic movements like the 10COAC were made in the USA. Pic from Roland Ranfft.
> View attachment 15234033


Here's a photo of the movement in my 30 jewel auto.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

mystic nerd said:


> Here's a photo of the movement in my 30 jewel auto.


Ohh nice

I'm looking for a 23 or 30 jewel movement Bulova on eBay right now

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## mystic nerd (Aug 10, 2013)

Commisar said:


> Ohh nice
> 
> I'm looking for a 23 or 30 jewel movement Bulova on eBay right now
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


I'm going off on a tangent here but.. some of the 30 J watches have these interesting octagonal cases. I've seen them on the bay in smooth stainless, smooth gold plated, and in a deeply textured plated.

These dials seem to be delicate. I would not be surprised if other 30 (and 23) J Bulovas also have that issue - not only the octagonal case ones. I've seen photos of some where the lettering is either missing or redone, poorly. Or missing chapter rings. I suspect "missing" occurs when someone attempts to clean the dial. So, look closely at eBay photos and always assume that a dial can not be cleaned up.


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

Swiss-made Accutrons were already spun off for a few years in the early 2000's (Auto's & Quartz).
My wife bought me this quartz chronograph for our 25th wedding (15 years ago last week). Wish I had asked her to get the auto.
The ETA movement failed a few years ago and I had a forum friend put in a new movement (the movement was almost $100 from Esslingers).


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Well, good...I'd not heard this news so I'm quite happy to see it.


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## odd_and_vintage_fan (Dec 4, 2014)

Gosh darnit, they're paying the 'dinkee to advertise. This does not bode well.









Reinventing Time: The Original Accutron


How a humming movement changed wristwatches forever.




www.hodinkee.com





Their website has new content, but nothing more than a history lesson.






Accutron Watches | Official Site


Accutron, known as the world's first fully electronic watch, has been declared as one of the most important innovations in the history of watchmaking. Sign up to be the first to know when Accutron watches are available.




www.accutronwatch.com


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

odd_and_vintage_fan said:


> Gosh darnit, they're paying the 'dinkee to advertise. This does not bode well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HODINKEE has a massive readership....

The site seems to be showing the old now and the new will follow.

HODINKEE all but declared the electrostatic movement at the end of their article.

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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

HODINKEE also had the first look at the Static movement last year, and a write up, based on... not a whole lot. I think Bulova brought it to show to Jack Forester, and that’s about it. 
$4000 for the new Spaceviews? Wonder what they’ll drop to after a year?


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

tayloreuph said:


> HODINKEE also had the first look at the Static movement last year, and a write up, based on... not a whole lot. I think Bulova brought it to show to Jack Forester, and that's about it.
> $4000 for the new Spaceviews? Wonder what they'll drop to after a year?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Heheh, if it's a HODINKEE collaboration it'll be at least ..... $6k

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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

I’d expect some more news in a bit. Looks like they’re preparing a PR campaign blitz. There are a couple Instagram accounts for Accutron that are new, there’s a new pod cast about whisk(e)y and cigars, and possibly watches. And the leak about the Accutron models with a crown where one shouldn’t be (An Alpha with a crown?!? Lord have mercy!). Who knows what’s next


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

This was posted to their Instagram page. If it's a Astronaut with a crown, we're going to have a problem!

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## Captain Bluebeard (Jan 21, 2018)

Lots of new models showing on Accutron website now ... in 3 collections ... Collections


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## 357-Mag (Jul 24, 2020)

Only ones that really interest me are the Legacy Accutrons Legacy
But these are Swiss automatics and it seems a bit out of place to have them branded Accutron.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

Here it is









Introducing the Accutron Spaceview 2020 and the Accutron DNA: Two Watches with an All New Electrostatic Movement - Worn & Wound


Fans of watches powered by things other than a traditional mechanical gear train have something new to contend with today: the Accutron Spaceview 2020 and the Accutron DNA. If these watches look familiar, you’re probably already predisposed to interesting quartz and electronic watches, as the...




wornandwound.com





New Spaceview

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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

tayloreuph said:


> HODINKEE also had the first look at the Static movement last year, and a write up, based on... not a whole lot. I think Bulova brought it to show to Jack Forester, and that's about it.
> $4000 for the new Spaceviews? Wonder what they'll drop to after a year?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ahaha not too far off... $3450

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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

I checked the collections on the web site. I was surprised they're offering automatics too.

I see the same fate as Timex's "TX" line for Accutron as a brand (but like TX's technology, I think the guts in these new watches will live on). Time will tell who's right.


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

ABlogtowatch has a good write up, where the commentary was about the movement dictating the case size of the 2020 and the DNA models. If they could make the movement symmetric and shrink it, they’ll really have something. A supposition about 10 years of development as well


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

tayloreuph said:


> A supposition about 10 years of development as well
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I ain't holdin' my breath. 😄


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## SethThomas (Oct 29, 2014)

Commisar said:


> Here it is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, there is an optimism crushing debut. Starting at 43.5mm DIA and 15.41mm Thick! This movement is huge.

I don't mind a larger sports watch. But that dang thickness is ludicrous, its thicker than a Blancpain Bathyscaphe Chrono (14.8mm).

Any added complication is basically out the window.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

SethThomas said:


> Well, there is an optimism crushing debut. Starting at 43.5mm DIA and 15.41mm Thick! This movement is huge.
> 
> I don't mind a larger sports watch. But that dang thickness is ludicrous, its thicker than a Blancpain Bathyscaphe Chrono (14.8mm).
> 
> Any added complication is basically out the window.


Yep

This is essentially a halo / tech demonstrator

They'll probably also use a smaller UHF quartz movement too... I hope

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## Stu47 (Jun 22, 2020)

The "shield-case" one is much more interesting to me....but the size and price... Hard-pass. I wonder what street-price will be after the initial launch? 50% of original MSRP?


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Yes, as much as it pains me to say it, I think this will flop. I was really looking forward to it. I might've swallowed the cost...but the size? No way. I read some of the comments on the Hodinkee page, and there were some "oh this is interestting!" but if I recall the tone of the comments, it's mostly its novelty. 

Now, TBH, that was a factor for me...it would be a unique movement. That interests me. $3500' worth...well, I'd buy a Citizen Caliber 0100 at $3500 so that's not an absolute deal-killer. But that size.....


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

I wasn’t aware that the Citizen 0100 was the same price. That’s a superlative watch. It has an interesting story, most accurate quartz movement, it solves a problem like the first Accutron’s did. This new one, novelty is a good term. Collectible? Are the Precisionist collectible? Is there an instant classic in that line? Or are they too big? Or, will we, in 30 years be lining for the old school 45-47mm classics?


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## desc82 (Dec 28, 2017)

Just learned that, then found that rather old thread.

Wondering if the tuning fork logo will follow Accutron or will be shared between both brands. The recent Precisionist X still has the logo, but maybe the design was made before the decision to split brands.


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

I think it’s part of the Bulova Corporate logo now 


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## Beatlloydy (9 mo ago)

ReallyBored said:


> I'm glad to see that they're going to release the turbine watch!
> 
> But I'm curious about Accutron as a stand-alone brand. I don't think you can build an entire brand around the turbine. Maybe the Accutron brand will inherit all of the 262 khz watches going forward?
> 
> ...


just bought this Sinatra last night. Bulova certainly does gold and grey well.


ReallyBored said:


> I'm glad to see that they're going to release the turbine watch!
> 
> But I'm curious about Accutron as a stand-alone brand. I don't think you can build an entire brand around the turbine. Maybe the Accutron brand will inherit all of the 262 khz watches going forward?
> 
> ...


Just bought this one last night. Bulova do gold and grey well imho


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## tayloreuph (Mar 9, 2015)

Beatlloydy said:


> just bought this Sinatra last night. Bulova certainly does gold and grey well.
> 
> Just bought this one last night. Bulova do gold and grey well imho
> View attachment 16818907


I like the styling, the signature doesn’t work for me. But the newer Summer Wind with just the fedora at 12 is fine


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## ReallyBored (Dec 19, 2018)

Beatlloydy said:


> just bought this Sinatra last night. Bulova certainly does gold and grey well.
> 
> Just bought this one last night. Bulova do gold and grey well imho
> View attachment 16818907


Gray Dial + Gold accents is a surprisingly nice combination!


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