# Military Pilot Looking for UTC Watch



## Mongoose121 (Aug 6, 2009)

Good Afternoon,
I am in the market for the my first Automatic watch. I have been looking at several models and am prepared to offer you their names and model #'s to give you a good idea of the design, style and price range that I find attractive.

1. Fortis Spacematic GMT

2. Glycine Airman 17

3. Sinn 856 UTC

My watch ideal requirements: automatic movement, manual winding, metal band, 100 - 200m WR, non-chrono, non-bezel, luminous hands / indicies, GMT complication.

Ideally, I am looking for a watch with a very simple dial. I don't require a bezel and as a current owner of a Luminox dress watch - I must say that I truly enjoy the tritium light capsule lighting vs. the super-illuminova.

For some reason, even the Orient Orientstar Retro line of watches are very pleasing to me as they provide an open heart of 'semi-skeleton' style - something I find very nice.

So, in short, if there is you could please provide me with some other options that I might meet my requirements I would greatly appreciate it. Of special note, I found a Fortis Spacematic GMT watch with the model number 624.22.14B, and when I referenced the Fortis website, their model number for the same watch is 624.22.11B. The model year of the offered watch is 2007 and they report that it cannot be read at night...even through Fortis states that their watches are treated with Super Illuminova. My gut says that this may be a fake but I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Sincerely,
Jason


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## whifferdill (Jan 11, 2007)

Hey Jason

Welcome to the forum.

I can recommend the Glycine Airman range of watches - I use an Airman Special II ( civilian SAR heli pilot ) and for a military pilot especially, the 24 hour time and the ability to set a second time zone with the bezel ( local or UTC as you prefer ) is really useful. They are easy to read despite the 24 hour layout.

You mention that you are not looking for watch with a bezel though, and both the Sinn and Glycine have bezels - many second time zone watches do - Rolex GMT Master, Omega Seamaster GMT, the Airman's and generally most Sinn watches employ timing bezels, so you may have to compromise on that one.

I can also recommend Fortis as being great, easy to read watches with clean and simple dials. They do use SuperLuminova, but the 'stick' hands and neat arabic numerals make for a small area for the luminous coating, leaving them adequate, but not great at night.

The Spacematic has been around for some time, so it may be that the particular watch you mention has lost a lot of its lume. The older Fortis Official Cosmonaut GMT is a good one, as an alternative model to consider - clean dial, countdown bezel and UTC hand, though it is smaller by today's standards.

My best recommendation would be to go with any of the Airman range of watches.

The 17 is pretty big however, at 46mm diameter, so I'd make sure you try one on before buying - that's a large hunk of watch to be carrying around on your wrist. The 18 might be more practically sized at 38.5 mm diameter and is a great watch - i used to have one, but flipped it for my Special II.

You can still pick up the Airman 2000 on the second hand market, which has a very wearable and readable 40mm diameter.

Most automatic watches are also able to be manually wound.

Good luck.


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## Dennis Smith (Feb 15, 2006)

I agree with Ian (Whiff). Of course, we love Airmans and they have bezels. The SST06 is a nice compromise with an inner bezel.
From your criteria, you selection of the Sinn 856 is outstanding. 
You can, of course, have a simple automatic GMT with tritium...the most obvious choice I can think of being Ball...


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## Mongoose121 (Aug 6, 2009)

Gentlemen,
Thank you very much for your prompt replies, I sincerely appreciate your time and comments. The Glycine Airman 17 is a healthy chunk of metal at 46mm, and although the 18 is 38.5mm, has there been any concerns with the readability? I remember trying on a Breitling Colt GMT watch and I think it had very similar case specs and it looked dinky on my wrist. I'm thinking a 40 - 42mm case (not including crown) should be fine.

With regard to open heart or semi-skeleton watches, any idea of current or previous models out there that come with a GMT or UTC complication?

Whifferdill, you win the nod towards the Glycine and I'll look more into their collection. Do you know offhand about the night readability? I spend alot of time in IFR conditions and we routinely keep the cockpit pretty dimly lit. Thanks for your service in the SAR community my friend.

Sincerely,
Jason


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## Dennis Smith (Feb 15, 2006)

When looking into Airmans, you gotta ask yourself one very important question...
Do you want a watch that tells time the "normal" way with a 12 hour hand going around twice a day AM/PM -style, with an added 24 hour hand? (We call these 12/GMTs)
Or do you want a "purist" 24 hour watch (the type of watch we deal with on this forum...The one and only hour hand is a 24 hour hand going around once per day)?
The SST-06 is a little larger at 44mm, but the caseback and lugs curve around the wrist making it wear much smaller. The bezel is also inside, which I thought you might like. This watch can be had in either 12/GMT or purist 24 versions.
You can see my purist SST-06 in the sticky post at the top of the page.

The limited edition 42mm Airman MLV is a unique piece with a all-Superluminova dial for excellent night readability. This watch is getting hard to find, and was only available in 12/GMT (though at least one of our guys converted his to purist 24). 
Here's a link with great shots of the MLV....

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=285275


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## cnmark (Jul 30, 2006)

Mongoose121 said:


> 1. Fortis Spacematic GMT
> 
> Of special note, I found a Fortis Spacematic GMT watch with the model number 624.22.14B, and when I referenced the Fortis website, their model number for the same watch is 624.22.11B. The model year of the offered watch is 2007 and they report that it cannot be read at night...even through Fortis states that their watches are treated with Super Illuminova. My gut says that this may be a fake but I'd appreciate your thoughts.


Hi Jason,

first the sad news, the Spacematic GMT 624.22.11 was actually discontinued about 3 or 4 years ago (production ended), but it may still be available, especially on the European market.

About the Fortis numbers in the catalog/web site and on the watches' case backs, these do actually differ. This has lead to a lot of confusion - and nobody ever understood why Fortis does this. (but: to my knowledge there are _*no*_ Fortis numbers anywhere that do have a letter *B* in the catalog number or the case back number).

For the Spacematic GMT the correct numbers are:

- 624.22.11 is the catalog number and the number used on the Fortis web site (the last digit group .11 is the dial/hands code). The catalog number is followed by a letter, either M, K or L, these stand for *M*etal bracelet, _*K*autschuk_ (= Caoutchouk, natural rubber) band, *L*eather band. This letter may be followed by two additional digits, these are the color code for the band.

- 624.22.148 is the number on the case back, because Fortis does replace the "dial code" with a "movement code" in the case back numbers. The 148 in the case back code stands for ETA 2893-2
(The case back number may have a fourth group of digits, e.g 647.10.158.3 for a B-42 Marinemaster, in that case the additional number is the model revision code.)

break...

Luminosity:
All Fortis do have luminous markers / numerals / hands. In the older models it is tritium paint (check for "T SWISS MADE T" at 6 on the dial), the older tritium paint does glow, but only very weak.
Only in the newer models it is SuperLuminova (only "SWISS MADE" at 6 on the dial).

Other Fortis to consider:
As the Fortis Spacematic GMT is discontinued, you may want to look at the (even larger) Fortis "B-42 Cosmonauts GMT 3 Timezones" (649.10.11) - but that watch does have a 24-hour bezel, so you would have to give up on the "no bezel" requirement.
Pics of that watch below.

One from Fortis








And one by me:


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## Mongoose121 (Aug 6, 2009)

cnmark,
What a wonderful and informative post - thank you very much sir. I zoomed way in on the pictures of the watch and the model number does indeed read: 624.22.148 (the seller described it as a B). I feel alot better now about the authenticity of the item, though I have asked them to do a Superluminova test to see how it performs (again, the seller reports that it does not 'light up at night' but given the mistaken model number, I believe they may not know how to properly display and/or operate the model. Do you think that since this watch has been discontinued this would be in my favor to obtain one (i.e. collectors watch) or more of a hindrance should it require repair or even recommended biennial service?

The picture that you included of the B-42 GMT watch is striking and I'll need to do some serious consideration of all four watches that have been brought to my attention (Spacematic GMT, Airman 18, Sinn 856 and B-42). Regardless of my decision, I cannot thank you enough for your time and assistance.

Sincerely,
Jason


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## cnmark (Jul 30, 2006)

Mongoose121 said:


> discontinued this would be in my favor to obtain one (i.e. collectors watch) or more of a hindrance should it require repair or even recommended biennial service?


Obtaining one:
Probable difficulties of obtaining a Spacematic GMT (if you are US located), as Fortis does only regularly supply their main markets (Germany and Japan) with the remaining Spacematic stock. The US market is not anymore regularly supplied, but the US distributor (LWR Time) does still list this particular model.
There might even be chances to get a good discount - at the time the Spacematic series was discontinued, Fortis' US distributor made a sell-out of the basic day/date version via a fashion chain store (TJMaxx if I recall correctly). Collector's value: sorry, not really, not yet.

Servicing:
Every "watch doctor" worth his title should be able to service the ETA 2893-2 movement - it is a very common movement.



Mongoose121 said:


> The picture that you included of the B-42 GMT watch is striking


:thanks
That particular watch model has been rather popular about 2 years ago with military pilots and been worn on deployment, e.g to the middle east. There are even some posts about it here on WUS in the PilMil forum (here: *Pilot's & Military watches*) - at that time a Fortis brand forum did not yet exist, so all older posts about Fortis watches are in that forum. Fortis watches in general do have a certain popularity with military and law enforcement personnel due to their proven ruggedness and great readability.

Lume shots of the B-42 GMT:
 

The lume will fade during the night, as is common with SuperLuminova.

Hope that was helpful,

Markus (cnmark)


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## whifferdill (Jan 11, 2007)

Mongoose121 said:


> Gentlemen,
> Thank you very much for your prompt replies, I sincerely appreciate your time and comments.
> 
> Whifferdill, you win the nod towards the Glycine and I'll look more into their collection. Do you know offhand about the night readability? I spend alot of time in IFR conditions and we routinely keep the cockpit pretty dimly lit. Thanks for your service in the SAR community my friend.
> ...


No problems Jason, and thanks for the comments.|>

I fly a lot of IFR / Night too, but I have to say I use my watch more on the ground - planning the day, paperwork and pre-flight planning etc, than actually in the cockpit for inflight timing needs. The Glycine Airman's do have pretty good lume at night though and will last through if you give it a few seconds charge under a bright light. They have that large arrow hour hand and the rest of the lumed areas are fairly prominant, so it's pretty good - nothings going to be as good as tritium vial type layouts though - as in Ball and Traser.

It's good enough for me to peer across at the sidetable in the dark and see the time, anyway.

I think you should take time considering what Dennis says about your needs - whether to go for a pure 24 hour watch, or a 12 hour watch with GMT hand.

Many prefer the 12/GMT layout, as it's more akin to what they're used to, but having worn an Airman whilst flying for a couple of years now, I really missed the 24 hour set up when I recently sent my Glycine away for some tweaking. If this is going to be your only watch though, a 12 / GMT might make more sense for your 'down time' - something like the Fortis GMT posted by cnmark ( I am also a big fan of Fortis ) or the Omega Seamaster GMT, which has an hour hand that can be adjusted in one hour jumps ( like the Rolex GMT Master II ) which is handy whilst travelling or if you fly across time zones.

If you work mostly in one time zone, however, and just want that additional UTC reference, you can't go wrong with an Airman once you adjust to reading the time in 24 hour.

Dennis's suggestion of the SST06 is a good one if you'd prefer not to have an external bezel.

A note on the Airman 18 - I did swap it out for the Special II because of readability - lume was good, but the small date window and more closely bunched numbers made it less legible than the Special II is ( my eyes are probabaly a lot worse than yours though:-d ).

The Special II is no longer available as it was a limited edition run, but at the size preference you gave, the Airman 2000 is close and would be a good one, but might take a while to find.

For the Airman's, I'd take a closer look at:

SST06
Airman 2000
Airman 18

And for none Airmans, have a look into the Fortis and Ball.

Seems you have plenty to go on now with all the replies


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## TZAG (Mar 25, 2006)

*How about N1?*

Have you ever thought about Vostok-Europe?
I think N1 type meets your requirements. Automatic, 100m water resistant, 42mm size, good lume and great price.








































Mine http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5039/dsc00018ub6.jpg


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## nz_Fuzzy (May 27, 2007)

*Re: How about N1?*

if only they'd do a purist!


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## Andrei Raevsky (Mar 14, 2009)

*Re: How about N1?*



nz_Fuzzy said:


> if only they'd do a purist!


my thoughts exactly. VE has been doing many really awesome watches (check out the latest Ekranoplan model) but, alas, never did they do a *real* (aka 'purist') model, which is a crying shame.o|

I will still keep hoping that they will try this one day!

Cheers,

Andrei


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## TimeOnTarget (Feb 11, 2006)

Another nice thing about the Fortis B-42 is that the crown is a non-screw down type but still very water tight. If you change time zones a lot, then you will really appreciate not having to unscrew the crown every time, not to mention the wear and tear on the threads, etc. Be advised that Fortis blundered badly however, as the odd numbers on the bezel do not line up due to the click count on the bezel. I don't know how they could have sent these out to customers like that. It is still a great watch, and I wear mine quite a bit.


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## Mongoose121 (Aug 6, 2009)

Gentlemen,
Excellent, excellent information. Thank you very much for taking the time to assist me with my efforts to locate a decent watch. I thought I had a great deal lined up on a discontinued Fortis Spacematic GMT watch but it fell through at the last minute. 

The Fortis B-42 Cosmonaut GMT looks like the next best thing with regard to my personal tastes - and I copy TOT's comment about the bezel not being exactly right on - just wish they would have it illuminated with H3 / Tritium vs. SL. Whatcha gonna do right?

Again, thank you very much for all of your time, I've got some good leads to work on at this point.

Sincerely,
Jason


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## lavieenrose (Aug 20, 2009)

lol
I like this watch so much
it's so exquisite


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