# How to manufacture a custom-designed watch



## JonasLundin

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and I'd like to start by apologizing if there is a thread on this already.

I'd like to know the details of how to manufacture a watch of your own custom design (small quantity; ~300 pieces). I have designed a watch and initiated a dialogue with a couple of Hong Kong-based manufacturers. However, I feel like there is a language barrier as well as an incentive from the supplier side to quickly come to an agreement and thus not be completely honest with how to ensure that I get the results that I'm after. Therefore, it would be of huge value if someone here on the forum has been through this already and could give an honest description of the process.

What I wonder are the following:

- How do you ensure that the supplier manufactures exactly what you ask for? I mean, I've only been asked for "concept scetches", but I want to be able to control finish, materials, dial colors down to the last Pantone code, hand design and materials, fonts to use etc. What's common to supply on top of scetches and renders? CAD-files? High-resolution, production ready PDFs for printing? I mean, I don't want to pay for 300 units unless I know I'll get what I want.
- Do you generally get production samples to "approve" before final production of the full order batch? If so, is this generally only after payment has been received?
- Are Hong Kong manufacturers reliable in the sense that they want a happy customer, or will they do the least amount of work possible just to supply "something" and get paid?
- How does warranty work? What are general lead times for quality claims among Hong Kong suppliers? 

I understand that these are technical questions, but I cannot emphasize enough how helpful it would be to get them answered. 

Jonas


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## dsmcastro

Hi there, and welcome, feel free to post any doubts and ideas you have.

I've been in contact with some manufacturers when I was analising the possibility (and feisability) of making one of my concepts (you can see them here, if you want https://www.watchuseek.com/f77/mmc-watches-|-design-concepts-946864.html ) in Switzerland, Germany, China and Hong Kong. And of course, in China and Hong Kong they are more interested in the production than on details. But, if you send them very detailed sketches, or even 3D renderings, they would have better references. And, yes, you can decide every single detail, and use actual watches to emphasize a particular detail (like a finish, beveled surfaces, materials, hands, markers, textures, colors) anyway, every thing you want. And, they do a prototype before the whole production, so you can have it on your hands and feel what it likes, and then change anything you want.

if you are facing problems with the language, try to use as much more images. Most as you can to get better details.

If you like, send me a PM and I'll pass some contact informations that I've been talked to, and we could understand each other easily. I just made a break because I'm still not ready to start a production.

edit: about the payments, you can arrange to pay part of the amount, and then see how they go about the prototypes and final production, each manufacturer have their rules.


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## SOG

I am from Hong Kong, people in Hong Kong is quite reasonable, and their English is not bad too... Let me know when you need help, but one of the most important thing though, is to ask them to put things in the contract.

Hong Kong have a new law in 2013, even marketing claims needed to be true. Otherwise it's illegal.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## JonasLundin

dsmcastro said:


> Hi there, and welcome, feel free to post any doubts and ideas you have.
> 
> I've been in contact with some manufacturers when I was analising the possibility (and feisability) of making one of my concepts (you can see them here, if you want https://www.watchuseek.com/f77/mmc-watches-%7C-design-concepts-946864.html ) in Switzerland, Germany, China and Hong Kong. And of course, in China and Hong Kong they are more interested in the production than on details. But, if you send them very detailed sketches, or even 3D renderings, they would have better references. And, yes, you can decide every single detail, and use actual watches to emphasize a particular detail (like a finish, beveled surfaces, materials, hands, markers, textures, colors) anyway, every thing you want. And, they do a prototype before the whole production, so you can have it on your hands and feel what it likes, and then change anything you want.
> 
> if you are facing problems with the language, try to use as much more images. Most as you can to get better details.
> 
> If you like, send me a PM and I'll pass some contact informations that I've been talked to, and we could understand each other easily. I just made a break because I'm still not ready to start a production.
> 
> edit: about the payments, you can arrange to pay part of the amount, and then see how they go about the prototypes and final production, each manufacturer have their rules.


Thanks for the reply and the input on using more images and references to existing watches! I will for sure do that! I will PM you on manufacturers! 

/Jonas


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## JonasLundin

SOG said:


> I am from Hong Kong, people in Hong Kong is quite reasonable, and their English is not bad too... Let me know when you need help, but one of the most important thing though, is to ask them to put things in the contract.
> 
> Hong Kong have a new law in 2013, even marketing claims needed to be true. Otherwise it's illegal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


Thank you for that information! Just to make it clear - when you say put things in the contract; you mean like warranty terms, delivery times, payment terms and all that? Or something else?

Thanks!

/Jonas


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## IRememberItWell

Hey, thanks for doing this post, its something that really interests me too. Would you be able give some info on who to contact about making watches? I have no idea where to start, I wouldn't know what to even be putting into google, I'm guessing these are some sort of general manufacturing companies, nothing specific to watches?


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## BombFish

I'm going to watch this thread. I'd like to see you guys turn your designs into production, and hopefully impart some knowledge to people like me who has become very interested in these things


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## patsaydat

I agree


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## BLACKLIST

I am in the process right now of launching a new watch micro brand. I've dealt with a couple different suppliers before defaulting to my current one. Working with the right company is crucial, don't just go with the first one that acts interested, or looks to be the cheapest. I worked with a smaller company and they were always so stressed out with the work load they made alot of mistakes and i never even got correct samples. So to save money, make sure the company is large and actually has a reputation, and has made watches for other companies with a reputation. Working with a decent company may mean the MQO goes up. It just depends what you are trying to do. Hong Kong companies are good. But you will HAVE to get samples before the production run. this is where you get to see everything they did wrong. (and they will do things wrong, its VERY hard to make a watch that looks exactly like the rendering. Colors are not the same on screen as in person. So you may have to go through a couple sets of samples before they are up to your standards. They will fix the things that are wrong if you tell them too, (and they are a decent company). 

Anyways, if you want more information shoot me a PM.


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## Split sec

Hi.
I am just in contact with *Fricker GmbH & Co. KG* for my project. They are, at least, intereting to do, both prototype and later to produce. But they want detail 2D drawings. Wery friendly and helpfull. Check them necessarily. The guy is Rainer Kies, Sales Manager  [email protected]. Let me know what hapends. Regards


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## TheDood

Great thread. I'm interested in doing the same thing and it's wonderful to get this kind of info. 

I know very little specifically about watch design and production, but have designed many other mechanical products for manufacturing. Generally speaking, to control manufacturing you'll want to create detailed drawings of each component (and probably an assembly drawing with a Bill of Materials). The component drawings should have at least the critical dimensions listed, with all critical tolerances called out. Also a tolerance table for the non-critical dimensions that should still be within some reasonable range. On the component drawings you also add notes to specify material, surface finish, color, etc - all the little details you want to make sure are correct. For the font/logo I've seen various ways of doing it and have definitely put font specifications on drawings before, but those specs can also go on a separate drawing for the art, depending on how detailed it is. You'll also want to include CAD models of the components and high-res art files for the logo. Most Mechanical Engineering contractors will know how to make all these drawings for you, but it does take some time and money so you'll want to be sure your design is as finalized as possible before approaching them. You can probably find someone in your area to do it for around $75/hr. There are people online that offer mechanical engineering services for much less (freelance.com has ME's), but I've never used them myself and imagine the communication could be difficult for certain things.

As far as working with manufacturers in Hong Kong and China I've had a bit of experience and would say it seems just like working with USA manufacturers (where I live) - some are great, some are terrible and some are ho-hum. You need to feel them out and then move on to the next if the current one isn't filling your needs. I've had great luck with Hong Kong factories myself, but that may just be random chance as I've only dealt with a couple of them.

Always have a sample made before a production run. Usually it takes more than one sample to get things right, at least for the stuff I work on. You'll likely have to pay a relatively high price for samples, but you shouldn't need to pay for the whole production run just to get the sample.

The lead time, warranty, and quality agreements do go into the contract. For quality you basically want to specify as much as possible on the drawings (Pantone numbers for colors, specific class of surface finish etc), then in the contract you need to say that if the specifications on the drawings aren't met then the manufacturer is responsible. 

Again all of the above was general - I've seen people control manufacturing in different ways and what I've described is just the cleanest method I know of (and is how I usually do it). Hope it helps!


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## Time On My Hands

Excellent interesting thread, with great contributions. Good on you, Jonas, good luck with the project.


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## MarkDaniels

Hi, this is my first post.

I plan to make my own watch and maybe even make them to order, that's if people like my designs. I am just wondering what movemements and what price range you guys are aiming for?
I'm an engineer by trade and I'm verry familiare with many aspects of manufacturing in the UK. I will making prototypes in plastic then when I'm happy I'll get it made in 316 Stainless Steel and then PVD coated. I use Catia to design and keyshot to render, I have access to CNC machines and will program them my self as that is what I do for a living. I will be basing my watch round an ETA6498 movement and will feature a 44mm case with center lug, apart from the movement, I will get all parts made in the UK using local companies.
I will be following this thread to see how you guys get on, I wish you all the best in your ventures


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## JonasLundin

Happy to see that the thread still lives!

A couple of months later I have gotten quite a bit further in the process and I'll gladly share what I've learned. I've been in contact with 12 different manufacturers and ordered samples from 6 of them. I have received samples from 4 so far, and with 3 I have also received a second iteration. All my suppliers are in the Hong Kong/ Shenzhen region and the general design process seems to be the same across manufacturers. I have also been working with Mark Schatten at Timepiece Branding Services who has helped me a great deal (and may very well be the supplier I chose to work with in the end - TBD!).

To summarize my learnings so far, I will go through the PROCESS of dealing with a Hong Kong/ Shenzhen-based supplier, as well as my experience of assessing supplier QUALITY, DELIVERY and COST performance.

*PROCESS:*

- Initial contact is established (by yourself sending an e-mail or message on Alibaba), and upon receiving the specifications of the watch (movement, finish of case and dial, water resistance, crystal quality, type of crown etc.) and the intented quantity (in my case always MOQ - minimum order quantity) you should be able to get a preliminary unit cost estimation. No supplier offered to make production prototypes/ samples before I specifically asked for it, but they were all able to supply it. You should demand this - extremely important!
- After the initial contact it is important to supply whatever designs and renderings you have and ask for a 2D rendering back. This to confirm that they have understood what you are after, and for you to be able to make preliminary modifications. You shouldn't need to pay anything yet; it is upon your acceptance of the 2D rendering that they supply you a PI (proforma invoice) and you pay the sample cost (not the full batch order cost!). 
- After receiving a 2D rendering that you think is right (make sure it is as right as you want it, don't leave any corrections "for later"!), you pay the sample cost and should ask for a CAD drawing (sometimes referred to by the suppliers as "technical drawing"). It can be hard to interprete a CAD drawing, but take your time to look through it as see that there is nothing on there that doesn't conform with your design. This goes especially for the watch case as the largest part of the sample cost is the cost for the case mould.
- After confirming the CAD drawing, the production of your sample/ prototype will start. The lead time from this point is approximately 30-50 days until your have the sample in your hand. None of my suppliers delivered on time, so you should calculate with a 10-20 day delay on whatever they promise you.
- As some people have mentioned in the thread already, the first sample will not be correct. And honestly, even when it is right, you will likely find a thing or two that you're going to want to change. All suppliers I've been in touch with seem willing to send me a second iteration with no additional cost, although some send "dummy" (non-working) samples the second time.
- After confirming the sample, there's usually a down payment of 40-60% of the full production cost upon ordering; the rest will need to be paid before final delivery.

*QUALITY:
*
Having seen the quality of four of my suppliers, I'd say it is loosely correlated to (but not to 100%) the size of the supplier. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread - you will save yourself time and effort by choosing a supplier that is already manufacturing watches for a well-known brand. Quality issues that I have encountered:

- Generally not conforming to the agreed 2D rendering or specifications (e.g. etched instead of embossed details, general shape and build of the dial, wrong font used for engravings/ figures on the dial, wrong surface finish, wrong shape of hands)
- Bad alignment of the dial to hour markers (assembly quality)
- Alignment of printing
- Uneven glue seams on the dial
- Dust/ debris inside the watch

Another aspect that I realized after receiving the first samples is that if you don't mention it in your specifications, the movement housing (sits between the watch case and the movement) will be in plastic. Of course, you can only see it from certain angles, but using a brass movement housing adds some weight to the watch (in my case I think it is positive) and adds to the feeling of quality.

*DELIVERY:

*Most suppliers quote 40-50 days as lead time for the samples. However, this should be taken with a pinch of salt as the supplier in my case who got closest to this delivered only one week late. I'd say you should expect 55-60 days delivery time. On the other hand, getting the second iteration of samples can be faster; 2-4 weeks. In terms of delivery practicalities, all my suppliers use DHL or Fedex - both offering a 2 working day delivery time from Hong Kong to Sweden*.

*Minimum order quantity ranges between 300 and 500 with the different suppliers.

*COST:

*First of all I must say that I think this depends heavily on what type of watch you're designing. My watch is very clean, simple and conservative so I think I'm at the lower end in terms of prototyping costs. Nevertheless, I was surprised of how incredibly affordable I thought it was.

- Depending on supplier, the sample costs ranged between 335-1096 USD. This includes 2 working samples, movement and all.
- Shipping cost for the samples is usually included in the sample cost, but is otherwise around USD 20-35 from Hong Kong to Sweden.
- Unit price for my watch ranges between 55-96 USD depending on the supplier. This is only the cost for the watch itself to the supplier and does not include straps (which I will source separately), retail packaging/ documentation, shipping or tolls/ taxes. I will probably pick a supplier in the upper range of that, but I should mention that quality does NOT correlate linearly with price.

One supplier specifically mentioned that the total order value cannot be below 20 000 USD, and I can imagine that goes for most manufacturers.

I think that pretty much summarizes my experience so far. I attach a few pictures below of my initial design drawing sent to the manufacturers as well as some pictures of my latest samples. Let me know if you have any questions!

/Jonas


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## JonasLundin

Hi Mark!

Welcome to the forum and best of luck with your watch project!

To answer your questions; I use the Miyota 8215 movement now. However, I think I may want to upgrade to Miyota 821a in order to get it more decorated... not sure yet.

In terms of price, I haven't set my final retail price level yet and have no experience from the industry. However, being a former management consultat I'd say depending on what sales channel you use, you could start counting backwards... retail price - tax should be ~double wholesale price. Wholesale price should give you enough margin with your intended volume, which I guess will be low, so at least 3 times your landed cost. Your landed cost will be your ex works cost + packaging, shipping, cost of quality returns and tolls/ taxes, i.e. +15-25% on your ex works cost. This sums up to a retail price of ~900-1000% of your ex works cost depending on tax levels in your country (ex works = the cost you get from your supplier when you make them to order).

So, with a small volume, using ordinary retail channels and an ex works price of 100 USD, (without actually knowing) I would recommend a retail price of 899-999 USD. Selling only online could halfen that (remove the need for a retail margin), getting you to 450-500 USD. Selling larger volumes would decrease the need for a large wholesale margin and would further lower the price level you need.

Could anyone with actual industry experience verify? 

/Jonas



MarkDaniels said:


> Hi, this is my first post.
> 
> I plan to make my own watch and maybe even make them to order, that's if people like my designs. I am just wondering what movemements and what price range you guys are aiming for?
> I'm an engineer by trade and I'm verry familiare with many aspects of manufacturing in the UK. I will making prototypes in plastic then when I'm happy I'll get it made in 316 Stainless Steel and then PVD coated. I use Catia to design and keyshot to render, I have access to CNC machines and will program them my self as that is what I do for a living. I will be basing my watch round an ETA6498 movement and will feature a 44mm case with center lug, apart from the movement, I will get all parts made in the UK using local companies.
> I will be following this thread to see how you guys get on, I wish you all the best in your ventures


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## Shutterspeed11

This is a great thread and wonderful to see so many people with high hopes, ambition and goals! Good luck to you all on your endeavors! 

Sent from the Blue Bolt


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## Paulieclarkson

Thanks for sharing your experiences! Your sample looks great! I'm interested in doing a similar thing with some of my designs. Would you be so kind as to tell me who produced your samples, I've been speaking to a few manifacturers but have nobody to vouch for them

Thank you and hope you're doing well with your endeavours!


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## Rabert

Very interesting thread! Thank you very much for all the information!

Rabert


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## J-H-M

Thank you for sharing Jonas, very helpful information. Your prototypes look great. Keep us up to date with your project.


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## kidcisco

Awesome info! I needed this. Are those images of the watch you posted samples or actual production units?

Would you mind naming the manufacturer you went with??? Also, is the casing they used off the shelf or was that custom made for this watch? What about hands? What about intellectual property and the protection of it? Did they sign an NDA or anything? Would that even hold up if you needed to go after them?


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## JonasLundin

Hi Paulie,

I ended up working with Tianba Watch (天霸表-中国第一个石英表品牌-唯一官网). Very happy with service and quality level - I also travelled to Shenzhen this summer visiting the production line and head office.

Best of luck,

Jonas


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## JonasLundin

Hi kidcisco,

As I mentioned in my previous reply, I ended up working with Tianba Watch. The casing is not off-the-shelf but custom made. I'm actually not sure about the hands - they look exactly as I wanted, but are relatively "standard". I know for a fact that they can be custom made though, as I was considering a more stylized seconds hand for a while.

They didn't sign an NDA, but I'm quite sure they would if I asked them to. Honestly, if they end up copying my design - I'd be flattered. I don't think that would in any way affect my sales negatively at these small volumes. 

/Jonas


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## JonasLundin

By the way - if anyone's curious about how the watches finally ended up you can check out LUURâ„¢ Stockholm.

This is not meant as an advertisment, so I hope I don't break any forum rules by posting the link.


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## hanshananigan

They look great! I'll start a clean thread in Affordables...


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## JonasLundin

Thank you! 

/Jonas


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## panchoskywalker

Amazing work Jonas.


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## echelonff

Jonas, your design is beautiful! Are there manufacturers with lower minimum quantity requirements? I've dreamt of doing something like this, but I just couldn't lay out that kind of funding initially.


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## dsvilhena

Jonas, Congrats. It's a stunning watch


Used my fingers to type this


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## JonasLundin

echelonff, well all the manufacturers I've been in touch with had either 300 or 500 as their minimum order quantity. You could always start and get some prototypes made - that's not a big investment - and then figure out your financing later.


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## kidcisco

JonasLundin said:


> Hi kidcisco,
> 
> As I mentioned in my previous reply, I ended up working with Tianba Watch. The casing is not off-the-shelf but custom made. I'm actually not sure about the hands - they look exactly as I wanted, but are relatively "standard". I know for a fact that they can be custom made though, as I was considering a more stylized seconds hand for a while.
> 
> They didn't sign an NDA, but I'm quite sure they would if I asked them to. Honestly, if they end up copying my design - I'd be flattered. I don't think that would in any way affect my sales negatively at these small volumes.
> 
> /Jonas


Wow, great info. I have three other questions:

1) You mentioned you had prototypes made with 4 suppliers. Would you mind mentioning those people and giving your impressions of each?
2) Is there a reason why you had a custom case made as opposed to using something off the shelf (would have saved costs I'm assuming)?
3) You mentioned sourcing straps separately - can I ask where you got straps? Did you have them custom made? I'm trying to find someone who makes straps.

This thread has been really helpful as I embark on creating my own line so thank you!


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## kidcisco

JonasLundin said:


> echelonff, well all the manufacturers I've been in touch with had either 300 or 500 as their minimum order quantity. You could always start and get some prototypes made - that's not a big investment - and then figure out your financing later.


Hey JonasLundin, any updates about my previous post? I don't want to bother but I'm curious about those things. Thanks and happy holidays.


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