# Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open?.



## Yao

*Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

You can check out more details here.

Here are my thoughts on some of the issues raised during the preliminary discussions&#8230;.
*
Movement: ETA 2893-2*
I know that there was some speculation that a new GMT movement is on the horizon from Sellita. Barring the possibility that the collective minds on the forums know something that I don't (which is possible) none of my sources are aware of such a development. In addition, given that the balance springs that the industry is dependent upon will become artificially scarce for the next couple of years there probably isn't a lot of incentive for Sellita to expand their product line. At this point I know I have 2893s coming and I know the movement well by now. For this kind of project it seems best to stick to what we know and understand.
*
Lumed bezel? *
There was quite a lot of talk previously about a lumed bezel inlay. What is important to note at this stage is that if you sign up for the Project GMT ("GMT") you will have to be satisfied with an aluminum inlay. That is because that is what I can guarantee for now. What we can promise to the Plankowners (i.e. the first 60 watches) for the GMT is that if we develop a sapphire inlay option for the watch we will at the least offer them an opportunity to purchase the part at a discount. I can't be more generous at this point until we know exactly how much the part will cost. It isn't even possible at this stage to estimate the cost because the method we prefer to use is experimental.

We are in the intermediate stage of the development a lumed sapphire inlay that we can use on the GMT. The Paradive inlay is an example of how far we have progressed toward this goal and a solid indicator that it is possible. However the issues involved in a lumed sapphire inlay for the GMT are more complex. The part would only be partially supported by the bezel, much like the original PanAm watch. The Paradive is "easier" because the part is fully supported by the bezel itself.

At this point we are using the production of the Stingray II and Project 300 as test beds for a process that can be used as a state-of-the-art solution to the GMT inlay. While the geometry of the Stingray II and Project 300 inlays are not the same as a proposed GMT inlay it is more practical to test this experimental technique on a flat surface and then move forward if it is successful. The process we are using for the Paradive is an alternative solution that is available but as noted above not ideally suited for a partially supported bezel inlay.

Using acrylic is out of the question. Based on my experience the material is too inconsistent and unstable. There is also the danger that we would inadvertently re-create the problem that Rolex experienced with the original GMT watch. If you recall the original acrylic inlays were dimensionally unstable when exposed to strong sunlight and also prone to "leakage" of the Strontium paint. While we would be using SuperLumiNova ("SLN") one still risks the SLN expanding if it is ever exposed to water, which can cause the acrylic to crack.
*
Case body and Design:*
I have decided that it is ideal to use the Kingston case design as the foundation for the Project GMT. There isn't a lot to be gained by re-designing the case. In addition the Kingston case is different enough from the original PanAm watch that it is also "safe" as it can't be re-purposed to counterfeit original PanAm's.
*
Date wheel:*
Just for the sake of laying all of our cards out on the table, there are a couple of issues I should make you aware of. There are two ways we can go. We can either use a standard white background date wheel with black and red numbers or we can try to replicate the original silver tone sunburst satin background finish with the black and red numbers. The former is obviously safe and should serve a suitable way forward if my efforts to create the later fall on its face. The reason I bring this up is that I haven't tried to manufacture anything exotic as far as date wheels are concerned. I know what is possible with dials of course, and they are very similar. However I have been doing this long enough to know that sometimes small differences can result in substantial questions of feasibility.
*
Timetable:*
I will discuss this some more when I have had some more sleep&#8230;the new work schedule has been murder when random people throw wrenches in the works. However so far so good.


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## zivadavis

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

glad i just happened to check the forum after getting home from work.....just pre-ordered one about 15 min ago......b-)


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## Steve260

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Just happened to check in this morning - sent my deposit!
Steve


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## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Just saw the thread, order placed! Didn't want to have to sweat out one like I did with the Kingston. 
Specs sound really nice, hopefully the sapphire bezel insert will become a reality. that will definitely separate it from the pack.


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## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Ordered! Wish I had the Kingston so I knew more about the size and what I was getting but I just cannot pass this up. Still a little concerned that it will be a little small on my wrist. :-s


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## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Ordered! I hope that I'm in before the 60 slots are filled!

Menno


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## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



White Tuna said:


> Ordered! Wish I had the Kingston so I knew more about the size and what I was getting but I just cannot pass this up. Still a little concerned that it will be a little small on my wrist. :-s


Don't worry. It's perfect on any wrist! The size of the Kingston is well balanced. You have to take into the account the fact that the watch has a lot of presence. I think the GMT will have even more!

Menno


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## Malyel

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I'm in... :-!


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## Alexxonvaldez

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Done !
Hope we won't be waiting an other 24 month or more 
Mr Yao, I trust you !

Unfortunately, no way to know if i'm in the first 60 batch :/


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## STEELINOX

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Great update !

_"EEEEEYeeeeaaaaaaaaah"_






More GMT names...

GLOBE MASTER
GLOBE STAR
ORION (for the PAN AM spacecraft in 2001 A Space Odyssey)


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## Izzy

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I am in, looking forward to it!!!


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## 66Cooper

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I was in the second I heard this might be in the works. Woke up at 7am and checked. Thank goodness as I didnt know there was only 60 slots. Cheers to all in the mix.

Now, lets build an insane watch people!!!


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## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I'm signed up also. This is my first experience with pre-ordering a watch. Be gentle.


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## Neily_San

Deposit sent. 
Order placed. 
:-D
Neily


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## litmus73

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

In like Flynn, something to look forward to. Deposit sent


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## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



> Unfortunately, no way to know if i'm in the first 60 batch :/


You will receive an email notice of a 'ticket' sent by MKII/Bill with a lot of info and this line: *"Thank you for your Project GMT pre-order. We confirmed receipt of your payment."*

Menno


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## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

:-! I'm in...at least I think I am. Made deposit payment and received 'Order Receipt' email from MKII. Hoping for the what-sounds-to-be-superb sapphire bezel inlay - Great news on the 2893-2. Hurray!


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## MHe225

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Made deposit payment and received 'Order Receipt' email from MKII


Same here - anxiously awaiting the e-mail saying: 



Thieuster said:


> *"Thank you for your Project GMT pre-order. We confirmed receipt of your payment."*


Too bad for me the announcement got sent out when it did .... I was sound asleep and don't check the forums before I go to the office or when I'm at the office. Still, I hope I'm in and made the cut-off - wouldn't mind being #60 and receiving that number on my watch (think birth-year).

Very excited and my personal MKII pipe-line is pretty full (Kingston GO, Project 300, Project GMT).

RonB


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## cpotters

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Well, I've placed my order, so fingers crossed. I hope I'm in, because I'm the guy who suggested this project to Bill at the NYC GTG we first met at. This watch, particularly in the white dial, is a really fabulous watch in person. Bill was quite right when he talked about how little accurate and verifiable information is out there on this watch. Many of them are simply not real, and finding a real one in the wild is like close to impossible.

I have confidence in Bill that if there's a way to conquer the bezel issues - and do it right - he will. For you folks that are sitting on the fence: don't. This GMT, based as it is on the experience of the Kingston, will be one of MkII's great watches. Once I get my confirmation, I'm going to simply forget about this bugger for a little while. It will be a long time coming, but the Kingston experience has shown that patience is rewarded.

In the meantime, I wonder what I should sell out of the barn to make room????


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## Cleans Up

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Well, I clicked the link last night shortly after it posted. I don't check in every day by any strech, so it seemed serendipitous..... So I'm in  but as others have said, at this point I'm considering it sunk costs. At some point I'll get news of a fantastic watch becoming available, I just hope it's not in 2 years


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## cojis

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Cleans Up said:


> Well, I clicked the link last night shortly after it posted. I don't check in every day by any strech, so it seemed serendipitous..... So I'm in  but as others have said, at this point I'm considering it sunk costs. At some point I'll get news of a fantastic watch becoming available, I just hope it's not in 2 years


Don't worry, it won't be.:-d

It'll be longer than that - there are Kingston folks out there still waiting and its been 2.5 years and knocking on three!


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## magix7

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Been following MKII for awhile now and came close several times, but never actually pulled the proverbial trigger on one. No doubt this GMT project will result in a finished product that is as close to my grail watch as I could possibly afford. However the recent delays and whatnot with the Kingston project leaves me wondering if I can handle the wait and dreams (or nightmares) that will haunt me if I pull the trigger on the GMT.

Will my heart win this one over my head?


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## *2112

*If your already thinking about the potential delay, I'd say pass on the pre-order nt*

f


magix7 said:


> Been following MKII for awhile now and came close several times, but never actually pulled the proverbial trigger on one. No doubt this GMT project will result in a finished product that is as close to my grail watch as I could possibly afford. However the recent delays and whatnot with the Kingston project leaves me wondering if I can handle the wait and dreams (or nightmares) that will haunt me if I pull the trigger on the GMT.
> 
> Will my heart win this one over my head?


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## nuovorecord

*Re: If your already thinking about the potential delay, I'd say pass on the pre-order nt*

Just placed an order as well. Hope I'm in!


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## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

:think:


Cleans Up said:


> Well, I clicked the link last night shortly after it posted. I don't check in every day by any strech, so it seemed serendipitous..... So I'm in  but as others have said, at this point I'm considering it sunk costs. At some point I'll get news of a fantastic watch becoming available, I just hope it's not in 2 years


Have Faith, Brother.... I'm thinking since most of the physical aspects of this watch are known and already developed, that this one can be carried off in a more timely manner. If you read Mr. Yao's posts, he has made progress toward accomplishing these in a more timely manner, than the Kingston (which was a very ambitious and complex reach- God I wish I had made the pre-order on that...).- But , How do you learn what you can do? Sometimes you have to reach or stretch a bit to know you are capable of more, and I believe that is what has happened with Kingston.

After participating in Project 300, I would say that (perhaps) the most time-consuming aspect of that project has been dealing with all of the varying ideas from forumers' input - they are all good, but it takes time to do it right.

I believe that is what Bill Yao and Mk II are dedicated to- doing it right, the best way, and I believe that alone, is worth the wait.

Congratulations! I am sure I've made the best choice, and I think you did too. |>

Best-


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## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think:
> 
> Have Faith, Brother.... I'm thinking since most of the physical aspects of this watch are known and already developed, that this one can be carried off in a more timely manner. If you read Mr. Yao's posts, he has made progress toward accomplishing these in a more timely manner, than the Kingston (which was a very ambitious and complex reach- God I wish I had made the pre-order on that...).- But , How do you learn what you can do? Sometimes you have to reach or stretch a bit to know you are capable of more, and I believe that is what has happened with Kingston.
> 
> After participating in Project 300, I would say that (perhaps) the most time-consuming aspect of that project has been dealing with all of the varying ideas from forumers' input - they are all good, but it takes time to do it right.
> 
> I believe that is what Bill Yao and Mk II are dedicated to- doing it right, the best way, and I believe that alone, is worth the wait.
> 
> Congratulations! I am sure I've made the best choice, and I think you did too. |>
> 
> Best-


You nailed it! The Kingston and the P/300 are largely influenced by customers' (or: forum members') input. Bill is about to rethink his original plans for the P/300 due to the size issues brought up on the forum. It will cause delay. But where else can you find a watchmaker who's willing to throw his design out of the window and start with a clean piece of paper just because 'we' ask him too!

I think it's wise of him to approach this GMT project more 'top down': Frist, Bill left us in the sand box, playing with CPotters' (thank you sir!) idea of a GMT based on the Kingston. We kept on discussing details, often fed by Malyel's (thanks to you too!) fantastic looking drawings and the odd poll... Now, things are more clear and since a lot of basics are covered already (size, material etc) things will speed up. These parameters allow Bill to move forward. Only delayed by Bill's other projects, I think.

When you send your deposit, you'll have to consider that you're entering a special phase: you can discuss details with the Man himself, you can respond to threads from other owners. You won't be saying goodbye to your $600. In return, you'll receive a masterpiece. And that takes time. If in doubt, don't send the money. You will regret it along the way: irritated why things take so long etc. Glass half full, glass half empty situation here.

I'm one of the few owners of a Tornek Rayville. I sent Bill the full amount for that watch and I didn't hear about it for more that 1.5 years. Suddenly, there was a man with a parcel on my doorstep.With my TR. Since then, I receive at least two PMs per month from fellow enthousiasts asking if I would consider selling the watch! I will not. But it's to illustrate that Bill does what he promisses and he does more.

Be confident.

Menno


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## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Thieuster said:


> You nailed it! The Kingston and the P/300 are largely influenced by customers' (or: forum members') input. Bill is about to rethink his original plans for the P/300 due to the size issues brought up on the forum. It will cause delay. But where else can you find a watchmaker who's willing to throw his design out of the window and start with a clean piece of paper just because 'we' ask him too!
> 
> I think it's wise of him to approach this GMT project more 'top down': Frist, Bill left us in the sand box, playing with CPotters' (thank you sir!) idea of a GMT based on the Kingston. We kept on discussing details, often fed by Malyel's (thanks to you too!) fantastic looking drawings and the odd poll... Now, things are more clear and since a lot of basics are covered already (size, material etc) things will speed up. These parameters allow Bill to move forward. Only delayed by Bill's other projects, I think.
> 
> When you send your deposit, you'll have to consider that you're entering a special phase: you can discuss details with the Man himself, you can respond to threads from other owners. You won't be saying goodbye to your $600. In return, you'll receive a masterpiece. And that takes time. If in doubt, don't send the money. You will regret it along the way: irritated why things take so long etc. Glass half full, glass half empty situation here.
> 
> I'm one of the few owners of a Tornek Rayville. I sent Bill the full amount for that watch and I didn't hear about it for more that 1.5 years. Suddenly, there was a man with a parcel on my doorstep.With my TR. Since then, I receive at least two PMs per month from fellow enthousiasts asking if I would consider selling the watch! I will not. But it's to illustrate that Bill does what he promisses and he does more.
> 
> Be confident.
> 
> Menno


I totally agree with memmo, I seriously doubt that the GMT project will be as long in coming as the Kingston. First off, the number of variations available with the Kingston were mind boggling. Here is what I posted in another thread a few days ago.

Look at these (hope I remembered them all!) These were the available Kingston options
1. Gilt non date C3
2. Gilt non date BWG9
3. Matte non Date C3
4. Matte nondate BWG9
5. Gilt Date (White DW) C3
6. Gilt Date (black DW) C3
7. Gilt Date (White DW) BWG9
8. Gilt Date (Black DW BWG9
9. Matte Date (White DW) C3
10. Matte Date (Black DW) C3
11. Matte Date (White DW) BWG9
12. Matte Date (Black DW) BWG9

actually you can add a choice of two bezel options to the above mix, so if you do the bezel option, actually there are 24 different combinations for the Kingston!! :think:

Add to this all the plank orders were essentially another watch from the above, so for all practical purposes, Bill has/had over 400 watches to sort out. Now granted, there weren't any adjustments or bench time with the plank parts kit, but they all had to be correct before packing and shipping. 
Makes my head spin just thinking about all these combinations, much less trying to put everything together correctly!

I think that the simpler the concept, the shorter the time from design phase to delivery. Two dials, all date models, one date wheel, one lume option, 2 bezel insert options are the way to go. This simplifies the preassembly process tremendously, as well as greatly eliminating the possibilities of folks getting a different combination of parts than what they ordered. Also cuts down tremendously on the messages,emails and phone calls from folks who change their minds and want their watch in a different configuration from the one they ordered.

Cases are decided, design is proven, probably only need to contact the manufacturer and order 250 more.adapting the case for a 2893-2 will probably require a different retaining ring, but that's no big deal, hands are the same size as Kingston except for the GMT hand, So From what i can gather, this project will start off quite a good bit closer to the finish line than the Kingston project. I'm not saying it's easy, and that the watches will be ready for delivery in 3-4 months, I'm just saying that all in all this is a lot less complicated than the Kingston project overall.

Of all the watches Bill has designed and delivered, this one is the most exciting to me thus far. I am a lover of GMT watches, and I would buy a 6542 tomorrow if I had the financial wherewithal. Unfortunately, that's not the case, so I'm particularly looking forward to this project.
Just my dos centavos
Arthur


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## Neily_San

cpotters said:


> This GMT, based as it is on the experience of the Kingston, will be one of MkII's great watches. It will be a long time coming, but the Kingston experience has shown that patience is rewarded.


I could not agree more !
:-D
For the record I was one of those who placed an order for the Kingston and sat back in the full knowledge that I would not see it for a LONG time. Not once did I post ( positive or defamatory ) comments. I just waited ... and waited ... and eventually, 2 years later, my patience was rewarded ;-D

Neily


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## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



magix7 said:


> Been following MKII for awhile now and came close several times, but never actually pulled the proverbial trigger on one. No doubt this GMT project will result in a finished product that is as close to my grail watch as I could possibly afford. However the recent delays and whatnot with the Kingston project leaves me wondering if I can handle the wait and dreams (or nightmares) that will haunt me if I pull the trigger on the GMT.
> 
> Will my heart win this one over my head?


I am not sayingthis will be your grail watch but my experience has been that is has cost memore in the way of time and money to settle for something that is close to whatI want then to get what I actually want in the first place. I like a lot of the decisions that Bill hasalready made on this so far.


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## gonzomantis

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Arthur said:


> I totally agree with memmo, I seriously doubt that the GMT project will be as long in coming as the Kingston.


For those "buying in" I hope it isn't as long. Looking back at the blog I see that the first custom Kingston was completed on Sept 29,2010. Here we are in late January 2012, and we are somewhere around 200 out of 300 being delivered. Factor in competition between P-300 and P-GMT, as well as other products in the lineup (sapphire bezel Paradive, DLC Sea Fighter, redesigned Stingray) and it won't happen overnight. This is a ton to ask from a one man watchmaking shop.

Meanwhile, I'll just sit back and wait for my GO Kingston.


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## rmasso

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

$600 is just the deposit amount right? Or is that the full price of the watch?


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## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

just the deposit. Full price is $1195.


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## TK792

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I too am in hopefully, but there must be some lag time when you pay with credit card because I didn't get the view ticket response. Hopefully I'm still in. I just finished paying for a Kingston second hand and a new LRRP, but I won't let this one slip away! My wife is going to kill me.


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## rmasso

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



BigHaole said:


> just the deposit. Full price is $1195.


Thanks, when i looked all i could see was the deposit amount, not the full price. 
Rich


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## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



TK792 said:


> My wife is going to kill me.


A noble cause to die for, though. :-d


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## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



BigHaole said:


> just the deposit. Full price is $1195.


I think that is the estimated full price. I believe the price could change based on the design decisions.


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## MHe225

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



rmasso said:


> Thanks, when i looked all i could see was the deposit amount, not the full price.


Rich, I had to look twice -I guess I was too excited- but it's all there. If you go back to the very first post of this thread



Yao said:


> You can check out more details here.


and follow the link, you will see the page below. I have underlined the pricing details: $1,195 for the 60 pieces available for pre-orders and $1,395 for the remaining 190 P-GMT's:











Thieuster said:


> ..... If in doubt, don't send the money. You will regret it along the way: irritated why things take so long etc .... I sent Bill the full amount for that watch and I didn't hear about it for more that 1.5 years. Suddenly, there was a man with a parcel on my doorstep .....


 +1 on what Menno said - I've said a similar thing myself before: you need to know yourself and whether you can stand the long wait, the silence, the lack of progress and updates. If not, don't order and snatch one that will be in the sales forum or on eBay and the likes (at a modest to huge premium - hard to predict right now). But if you are the patient type, it will all be worth it. 

Like Menno, I paid in full for my Quad 10 and it took still 14 months before I received my watch.
I missed out on the early Kingstons and had to wait till general ordering opened up; put down a deposit in May '10 and paid the remainder in June '11 I'm hopeful that #225 will be my '12 Christmas present
the down-payment for Project 300 was sent in March '10 and I don't expect to see this watch this year; maybe next.
yesterday I sent my deposit for Project GMT, a.k.a. PanAm - maybe I'll receive that one before the P300?
Do I wish things moved faster and I had at least the Kingston and P300 already in the house? Absolutely. Am I getting frustrated? Absolutely not! I'm confident that all these watches will materialize and when they do, I will know that I made the right decision to enter these projects and wait. I am generally not a patient person, but when it comes to watches, I have a lot of time (pun intended).

Good luck deciding and welcome on board if you're equally (or more) patient.

RonB


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## jussi

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Hope I wasn't too late on thisone... just made a deposit :-!


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## magix7

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Thanks Menno and the rest of the kind folks here who have had years of experience with MKII. Reading your helpful comments and insights were helpful in the decision making process!

Sent a deposit to Bill last night  Looking forward to the journey with you guys! Cheers.


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## enkidu

Arthur said:


> I think that the simpler the concept, the shorter the time from design phase to delivery. Two dials, all date models, one date wheel, one lume option, 2 bezel insert options are the way to go. This simplifies the preassembly process tremendously, as well as greatly eliminating the possibilities of folks getting a different combination of parts than what they ordered. Also cuts down tremendously on the messages,emails and phone calls from folks who change their minds and want their watch in a different configuration from the one they ordered.


Things should be a lot simpler.

BTW, I'll put in a small request for two date wheels, one normal and one destro so us destro loving folks can get some love. With the Kingston and 300 I can just go destro without worrying about the date wheel, but with the GMT project, it doesn't look like there is going to be a no date option.


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## Steve260

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Thieuster said:


> You nailed it! The Kingston and the P/300 are largely influenced by customers' (or: forum members') input. Bill is about to rethink his original plans for the P/300 due to the size issues brought up on the forum. It will cause delay. But where else can you find a watchmaker who's willing to throw his design out of the window and start with a clean piece of paper just because 'we' ask him too!
> 
> I think it's wise of him to approach this GMT project more 'top down': Frist, Bill left us in the sand box, playing with CPotters' (thank you sir!) idea of a GMT based on the Kingston. We kept on discussing details, often fed by Malyel's (thanks to you too!) fantastic looking drawings and the odd poll... Now, things are more clear and since a lot of basics are covered already (size, material etc) things will speed up. These parameters allow Bill to move forward. Only delayed by Bill's other projects, I think.
> 
> When you send your deposit, you'll have to consider that you're entering a special phase: you can discuss details with the Man himself, you can respond to threads from other owners. You won't be saying goodbye to your $600. In return, you'll receive a masterpiece. And that takes time. If in doubt, don't send the money. You will regret it along the way: irritated why things take so long etc. Glass half full, glass half empty situation here.
> 
> I'm one of the few owners of a Tornek Rayville. I sent Bill the full amount for that watch and I didn't hear about it for more that 1.5 years. Suddenly, there was a man with a parcel on my doorstep.With my TR. Since then, I receive at least two PMs per month from fellow enthousiasts asking if I would consider selling the watch! I will not. But it's to illustrate that Bill does what he promisses and he does more.
> 
> Be confident.
> 
> Menno


+1
I have been more than thrilled with every MKII watch I have ever purchased (and there have been quite a few, including pre-built, custom and "special editions" including the Kingston). We have to remember that Bill is essentially the only guy doing design, build, test, QA, etc., and he is a perfectionist! Thank goodness he now has Winnie to handle most of the work of keeping the orders & correspondence straight!

I have found the strategy that works for me for the custom/special edition MKII's is to simply place the pre-order and then LITERALLY FORGET ABOUT IT for awhile. I check the forum threads every 3 or 4 months to see if anything has been updated, but I really try not to set any delivery expectation timeframe in my mind. There are ALWAYS delays, and they have usually been significant. That's just part of the process of designing and building a custom MKII watch to Bill's standards (remember, he's a 1-man operation), and IMHO it's best for my sanity to just accept it. As I said, the finished watches have always been worth the wait!

Just by means of comparison - I have also been a guitar player for most of my life. In the acoustic guitar world, there are a small number of luthiers that make really exceptional instruments, and players get in line for their guitars. In most cases the guitars aren't exceptionally fancy - just extremely well executed in the quality of workmanship and the sounds they produce. The wait time (from the time an order is placed to the time the guitar is delivered) is frequently measured in years, in some cases five or more! The reason: the luthiers won't ship a guitar to a customer until it meets their very demanding standards. Sometimes that can mean essentially starting over if a particular instrument isn't living up to the luthier's expectations as it is being built... It doesn't take that long to build a quality guitar. Martin, Gibson and Taylor factories build and ship thousands of guitars every month, and most of them are really quite good. But, to build a custom designed guitar, executed by a single luthier to the very highest standards, takes a bit longer.

In that context, waiting a year or two for a custom designed and built special edition MKII doesn't necessarily seem so unreasonable. As Menno said, Bill always delivers exceptional watches. I am always confident when sending him a deposit that I will eventually receive a watch that will have been worth the wait!

Steve


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

for TK792-



> I too am in hopefully, but there must be some lag time when you pay with credit card because I didn't get the view ticket response. Hopefully I'm still in. I just finished paying for a Kingston second hand and a new LRRP, but I won't let this one slip away! My wife is going to kill me.


Congratulations on your choices! For sure on the watches....The 'wonderful lady who lets me live with her' (my lovely wife) said as much to me as I owned up to the deposit....."I guess this means you'll be selling some of the others" she said. I shuddered at the thought of it - Oh well, I have lots of time to think about it! Cheers to all....Have a great day. :-!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



enkidu said:


> Things should be a lot simpler.
> 
> BTW, I'll put in a small request for two date wheels, one normal and one destro so us destro loving folks can get some love. With the Kingston and 300 I can just go destro without worrying about the date wheel, but with the GMT project, it doesn't look like there is going to be a no date option.


This may be off-topic, and please be patient, because I just don't know....What is a 'destro' date wheel? :roll:


----------



## TimeOnTarget

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> This may be off-topic, and please be patient, because I just don't know....What is a 'destro' date wheel? :roll:


Left handed version. The crown and/or date would be on the 9 O'clock position....


----------



## GALLO

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Hello All!

This is my first post to a watch forum, ever. I am, however, a 'certified' watch geek. haha... At any rate, I became enamored with the MIIK AFTER I made my latest watch purchase. I bought an Omega Seamaster GMT (2534.50). I love the watch and think it's a great addition to my collection at a great price point. I am in the AF and will be PCS'ing to Japan and I'm also an avid diver. So I sought a watch that had both form and function. I love that the SM is rated to 300m and has the look, use and feel of a dive watch. I am seeking a little bit more out of a watch, I'm afraid. I can dive with my 24bezel by converting 2hr (5min), 4hr (10min), Etc. but I am still left wanting more. I wish it had the option of switching it out for an all black bezel and, why, at the very least, did it not come with a lume pip on the bezel!! Btw, I am considereing adding a tiny amount of lume paint to the 24hr arrow on the bezel 

Enter the MIIK GMT..I saw one with an all black bezel, both a 60min and 24hr countdown. Adding Sapphire lume to it, well, that would be amazing! I realize that there are things to consider like 60 or 48 bezel clicks b/c of the different functions of the watch but I've seen these MIIK's with the 60 and 24hr bezels and think that it would be stellar to have one lumed out.

Another item of concern, and maybe someone can verify, is if the ETA 2893-2 allows for the independent setting of the 12hr hand like the SM GMT and Explorer II or is it an independent 24hr hand. I love that feature in the SM. Based on some of the reading of done on this new watch project I gather that the idea here is give homage to the GMT's of the past..but I've seen the MIIK LRRP GMT 48 (HRV), and think that some minor tweeks to that would make it the watch to fill my tall order!

-Gerardo


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Hello Gerardo,

Welcome to Watchuseek!

And what a great first post! I can tell that you've been lurking for awhile... you know what you like.

I will make one prediction, however. What you like now won't be what you like next month. And that will be different from what you like next year. And so on...

I will make another prediction. Whatever your tastes, and however they may change over time, you will end up liking the MKII GMT. It already has a lot going for it and you can count on some classic styling. I think you've picked a winner here. You can't go wrong with it.

What a great way to enter the forum!

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## pl39g

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I paid this am and hope I make the cut. Looks like a great watch.


----------



## GALLO

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Thanks Packleader! I hear you on that...I always knew I was going to own a GMT but I didn't think I was going to take the plunge so soon until I saw the orders to Japan. I mean...who needs more justification than GMT+9 ... Thanks for the welcome. You are correct, I have been lurking around and gathering a lot of info for quite some time. I do know, however, how nice and helpful the people on this website can be!

I saw someone type out the Kingston options a few posts back. I already have some nice production watches and would like my next purchase to be a boutique watch but I want to be certain it's everything I want in a watch! I'm at the point where I have to lie to my girlfriend about the price of some watches just so I don't catch too much slack LOL.. in other words, my next purchase is going to be very discerning! 

Cheers, 
Gerardo

I am interested in this project watch, however. Can anyone tell me what their thoughts on options could be in the future. I know it's hard to say. Some of my input...I would love to see that sapphire bezel in both 60min and 24hr. Maybe the option to have the hands in 'sword' style or even the option of having the paradive hands and a Day-Date on the dial. Again..I know I am nit-picking but hey, I can dream right??!


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



GALLO said:


> I am interested in this project watch, however. Can anyone tell me what their thoughts on options could be in the future. I know it's hard to say. Some of my input...I would love to see that sapphire bezel in both 60min and 24hr. Maybe the option to have the hands in 'sword' style or even the option of having the paradive hands and a Day-Date on the dial. Again..I know I am nit-picking but hey, I can dream right??!


Perhaps some of the things on your wishlist will be in the final version. :-!

Any ideas, thoughts or desires that you have for the GMT should be added into this thread:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/how-would-you-like-panam-look-605034.html

Best wishes,
Packleader


----------



## Eksdad

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

The Good: Slow day at work allows me to check on and get in on the pre-order.
The Bad: Slow day at work means less funds to pay for snazzy new watch.
The Ugly: Explaining to the wife why I put down a deposit on yet another watch.

Eksdad


----------



## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



GALLO said:


> Another item of concern, and maybe someone can verify, is if the ETA 2893-2 allows for the independent setting of the 12hr hand like the SM GMT and Explorer II or is it an independent 24hr hand. I love that feature in the SM.


Hi Gerardo, welcome to WUS. To answer your question, the 2893 does not have an independent 12-hour hand. The 24-hour hand can be independently set, however.


----------



## GALLO

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



TimeOnTarget said:


> Left handed version. The crown and/or date would be on the 9 O'clock position....


OK I get it now. Thanks for the reply! :-!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Good Day All,

:think: Post on MK II website yesterday from Mr. Yao says that pre-order list may be full Tuesday (or may be even earlier that that), so if you are sitting on the fence....time passes and the number of available pre-order slots diminishes. :roll:


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

But the good thing is that if you put in your pre-order before that post that you should be on the pre-order list. I am a little surprised that the 60 slots have not been filled yet. Maybe time to add another? b-)


----------



## Alexxonvaldez

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Maybe time for people to evaluate wether or not they want to put money into something they may see the face in a couple of years or more. 
Same body as the Kingston, half the spare parts (no second case and bracelet, only a spare bezel) and almost twice the price.
Is the pan am a model as thought after as the James Bond's sub ? I won't bet. 
It may explain why it takes twice the time to complete the first batch of pre-order for just half the number of pieces (60 instead of 150) ! 
I'm in anyway, Bill's work is great and his watches are just bang for the bucks !


----------



## Toiyabe

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Well, I've always lusted after the Pan-Am GMTs, and I've always liked the MKII watches (I just purchased my first - a Stingray 50), and even after reading everything on the evolution of the Kingston Project, I'm onboard, and got my deposit.

I've long had experience with custom, limited-production, and esoteric mechanical things. From guns (and if you think Mr. Yao takes forver, you really need to get into custom firearms) to my own speciality of vintage cars, time is a given. 
I'll still be impatient, and I'm sure I'll be delighted when it arrives.


----------



## tmoris

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

so i placed my order and paid via credit card, but even though the mkii ordering page says "payment successful", my internetbanking doesnt show the transacation, not even in pending.. is that normal? ie mkii doing the payments offline using the credit card data that i;ve entered..?


----------



## sunster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I've loved the idea of the Pan AM GMT Homage and some of Malyel's drawing are outstanding. My Kingston experience has however taught me that I just don't have the patience for this though. If you can afford to put the money down up front and trust Bill to deliver a few years down the line then great- he has always done so in the past- who knows about the future. It is evident that the delays are mainly down to Bill's perfectionist attitude. Why else would anyone pay the swiss to build a watch only to undo them all and make adjustments like bend the minute hand. Credit to Bill for this. However this means that since the first Kingston was built (Oct 2010) he's only been able to ship on average of about 3 Kingston's per week. Bill is a one man operation and I doubt his watch building speed can change THAT much via altering the processes 'learnt. I'm still awaiting my second plank Kingston then there's another 100 of the general order for Bill to make and deliver. Then there's the Project 300 (150-300 watches) and these Pan Ams to be delivered in tandem- Plus the new watches that Bill is putting in the line up such as the new LRRP and Stingrays. I think the 2 years mentioned by some forumers are highly optimistic...:think:
The quality of these will no doubt be top notch as I've owned the LRRP, Vantage and Stingray in the past. If you have the patience of a saint jump on board...however if you are of the impatient type, then you're best forgetting about it, otherwise you'll end up like me being the cynic here moaning as I do from time to time.....
Best of luck to those who've place your pre-orders :-!


----------



## litmus73

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*






I can wait.


----------



## sunster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



litmus73 said:


> I can wait.


Lol
very good


----------



## gman54

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I missed the opportunity to purchase a Kingston from MKII; however, I purchased one from a collector here in Kuwait. I purchased a LRRP with Capstone dial and GMT hand on a bracelet from the batches released this December. I also made the plank owner pre-order list for the Project 300. I had no compunction ordering two (2) of the pre-order GMT's Friday night. Was delighted to receive a receipt in my email box for the payment. Certainly hope I receive confirmation that I am two of the 60! I am more than willing to wait 2 years; although, I'm optimistic this watch won't take as long as the Kingston.

Cheers,

gman54


----------



## cpotters

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



gman54 said:


> I had no compunction ordering two (2) of the pre-order GMT's Friday night. Was delighted to receive a receipt in my email box for the payment. Certainly hope I receive confirmation that I am two of the 60! I am more than willing to wait 2 years; although, I'm optimistic this watch won't take as long as the Kingston.


Ditto: to all of it.


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



litmus73 said:


> I can wait.


Does anyone know what that song is? I could use that for my workout mix.


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Alexxonvaldez said:


> Same body as the Kingston, half the spare parts (no second case and bracelet, only a spare bezel) and almost twice the price.
> Is the pan am a model as thought after as the James Bond's sub ? I won't bet.


My enthusiasm is now officially curbed. :-(


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



gman54 said:


> I missed the opportunity to purchase a Kingston from MKII; however, I purchased one from a collector here in Kuwait. I purchased a LRRP with Capstone dial and GMT hand on a bracelet from the batches released this December. I also made the plank owner pre-order list for the Project 300. I had no compunction ordering two (2) of the pre-order GMT's Friday night. Was delighted to receive a receipt in my email box for the payment. Certainly hope I receive confirmation that I am two of the 60! I am more than willing to wait 2 years; although, I'm optimistic this watch won't take as long as the Kingston.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> gman54


One to keep and one to share? :-d

Best wishes,
Packleader


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Packleader said:


> My enthusiasm is now officially curbed. :-(


This will still be a watch that is half the price of one of comparable quality, and one tenth the price of one that has been as lovingly seen after in all stages of production. As far as the plank program not being as generous as the Kingston, i.e. Spare case, dial, bracelet etc. I feel that this is a case of the economics of running a business. After all Bill is not putting in 70-80 hours a week as a hobbist. MKII is a company, and it will sink or swim on it's ability to make a profit. I'm more than happy with a spare bezel and insert as well as the right to buy a sapphire bezel insert should they become available. Would I like a second dial,hands, case and bracelet? Sure I would, but I realize that MKII cannot survive by selling watches for less than they cost to produce. I would rather have the spare insert/bezel at the price point that Bill set, rather than have a complete spare set and the price be 2K+.

As to the wait, I feel that after the Kingston, all of us are aware of the possibility of a fairly long waiting period. Unfortunately, for what seemed like quite a lot of folks, that was not the case with the Kingston. As most of the regulars to the forum know, their was quite a bit of consternation and disenchantment by a number of Kingston plank and second stage buyers. There is a real possibility that most of these folks were either new to boutique watches in general and MKII in particular. More than likely the vast majority of these buyers had never had to wait for a watch beyond the normal ordering and delivery time., and or the time it takes to ring up the sale at the jeweler or watch store where they were making their purchase. Amazingly, as watches were delivered, the dissidents dropped away one by one, and for the most part have never been heard from on the forum again!

My only advice to those in doubt, if you cannot stand waiting, and the longer the wait the more agitated you get, you would probably be best served by waiting until watches begin to be delivered and hopefully pick one up on the secondary market. You may have to pay a hefty premium, but you will get your watch with no waiting beyond delivery time. Quite a few folks who missed out on the initial Kingston ordering were able to find one on the sales forum and are now proud Kingston owners.


----------



## kkmark

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I'm in - just paid. Bill, if you're reading this, I don't care if it's done in 2.5 years or 3.5 years as long as it's done to your standards. My opinion.


----------



## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



kkmark said:


> I'm in - just paid. Bill, if you're reading this, I don't care if it's done in 2.5 years or 3.5 years as long as it's done to your standards. My opinion.


LOL, Let's not get crazy!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

:think:



> This will still be a watch that is half the price of one of comparable quality, and one tenth the price of one that has been as lovingly seen after in all stages of production. As far as the plank program not being as generous as the Kingston, i.e. Spare case, dial, bracelet etc. I feel that this is a case of the economics of running a business. After all Bill is not putting in 70-80 hours a week as a hobbyist. MKII is a company, and it will sink or swim on it's ability to make a profit. I'm more than happy with a spare bezel and insert as well as the right to buy a sapphire bezel insert should they become available. Would I like a second dial,hands, case and bracelet? Sure I would, but I realize that MKII cannot survive by selling watches for less than they cost to produce.


Good Day all- I agree with what is said here. Bill Yao certainly should be able to make his living doing what he does, and this is what I'm willing to pay for. I have one of the last of the Vantage, and at the price it was purchased for new, considering the care in construction and the obvious quality, and (therefore) Value to me, made it an absolute steal in terms of Value (personally, anyway). I am certain that the Value of the GMT, regardless of the wait, the cost, or whatever, will ultimately be worth it. Vantage proves it for me.

(Now I just hope that I was fortunate enough to have made the preorder list....);-)

My two cents....Good Day to all.


----------



## Neily_San

kkmark said:


> Bill, if you're reading this, I don't care if it's done in 2.5 years or 3.5 years as long as it's done to your standards.


+1

Neily


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I received my ticket! Now just a quick 2 years to go. ;-)


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Arthur said:


> This will still be a watch that is half the price of one of comparable quality, and one tenth the price of one that has been as lovingly seen after in all stages of production. As far as the plank program not being as generous as the Kingston, i.e. Spare case, dial, bracelet etc. I feel that this is a case of the economics of running a business. After all Bill is not putting in 70-80 hours a week as a hobbist. MKII is a company, and it will sink or swim on it's ability to make a profit. I'm more than happy with a spare bezel and insert as well as the right to buy a sapphire bezel insert should they become available. Would I like a second dial,hands, case and bracelet? Sure I would, but I realize that MKII cannot survive by selling watches for less than they cost to produce. I would rather have the spare insert/bezel at the price point that Bill set, rather than have a complete spare set and the price be 2K+.


I understand that the economics of running a business is constantly changing as a brand matures. And I don't doubt for a second that the GMT will be a fanatastic value for the money. I will go even farther and argue that Bill's straightforward and open dialogue on this forum, which makes me feel like I'm right there at his desk discussing watches, is something that is hard to put a price on.

I think that the Kingston pre-order phase might have pre-dated my interest in watches, but I still reserve the right to remain grumpy that I didn't get in on the ground floor of the Kingston project.

Now if the GMT ends up so gorgeous that it blows the Kingston out of the skies ... well, then there might just be hope for me. :think: But it will take some serious GMT love to soothe the ache.

Cheers,
Packleader


----------



## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Update:

*Project GMT likely over-subscribed&#8230;*

January 24, 2012 By admin
at this point. We will be reviewing the pre-orders received tomorrow and Thursday. The Project GMT has been taken off the e-boutique for now and we will insert a placeholder there that will re-direct you to the mailing list sign-up. The mailing list will also serve as a wait list. For those customers that don't make it onto the Pre-order as it is now we will automatically add you to the mailing list and refund your payment.
If you didn't make it onto the pre-order but would like to receive updates on this project or any potential openings in the pre-order please use the following form to add yourself to the mailing list. Please note that this mailing list will only be used for the Project GMT. You will not receive any additional mailings from Mk II. To sign up for our general mailing list please use the link at the top right hand corner of the site.


----------



## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



BigHaole said:


> I received my ticket! Now just a quick 2 years to go. ;-)


Just got mine, too! Yee Haw. I'm more than happy to wait. I was bummed to be late to the Kingston party, but this is even better. I've always been a fan of GMTs and the white-faced one in particular. I'll never have one of those in all likelihood, so I'm so stoked that Bill is doing this. Take your time, Bill, and do it right. And thanks!


----------



## Jim C.

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



nuovorecord said:


> Just got mine, too! Yee Haw. I'm more than happy to wait. I was bummed to be late to the Kingston party, but this is even better. I've always been a fan of GMTs and the white-faced one in particular. I'll never have one of those in all likelihood, so I'm so stoked that Bill is doing this. Take your time, Bill, and do it right. And thanks!


When did you (and BigHaole) put in your orders?


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Jim C. said:


> When did you (and BigHaole) put in your orders?


I submitted my order on Friday afternoon.


----------



## Jim C.

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Thanks. My order, which went in very early Saturday was just confirmed.


----------



## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Jim C. said:


> When did you (and BigHaole) put in your orders?


Mine was Saturday morning as well.


----------



## tmoris

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

i received a ticket saying:


> Dear Tomas,
> 
> Thank you for your Project GMT pre-order. We confirmed receipt of your payment.
> 
> Bill will be updating Project GMT progress on the website. Link below.


Does that mean im in, or do i have to still wait for the results if i made it into the top60?


----------



## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



tmoris said:


> i received a ticket saying:
> 
> Does that mean im in, or do i have to still wait for the results if i made it into the top60?


I'm assuming it does. I confirmed that my credit card was charged, so I take that to mean, we're in!


----------



## ASRSPR

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I just got my ticket too. Since it's now the same status as my Project 300 ticket, I assume that I made the cutoff?

In case anyone else is wondering, I made my order mid-day Sunday.


----------



## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



tmoris said:


> i received a ticket saying:
> 
> Does that mean im in, or do i have to still wait for the results if i made it into the top60?


Did you get an email with a ticket # in the subject line? That's what I got, but the text in the email was different from yours:
_
Thank you for contacting us. This is an automated response confirming the receipt of your ticket. One of our agents will get back to you as soon as possible. For your records, the details of the ticket are listed below. When replying, please make sure that the ticket ID is kept in the subject line to ensure that your replies are tracked appropriately._

_ Ticket ID: OQA-XXX-XXXX_
_ Subject: SO# XXXX_
_ Department: Customer Service_
_ Type: Order_
_ Status: 0. Pending instructions from Mk II_
_ Priority: Normal_

_You can check the status of or reply to this ticket online at: [web address removed]

_
_Kind regards,_

_Mk II Watches
_​
I'm reading this to mean that I'm one of the 60, given that I paid on Saturday and there were still spots open as of yesterday morning. Does this compare with what others have gotten?


----------



## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



nuovorecord said:


> Did you get an email with a ticket # in the subject line? That's what I got, but the text in the email was different from yours:_
> Thank you for contacting us. This is an automated response confirming the receipt of your ticket. One of our agents will get back to you as soon as possible. For your records, the details of the ticket are listed below. When replying, please make sure that the ticket ID is kept in the subject line to ensure that your replies are tracked appropriately._
> 
> _ Ticket ID: OQA-XXX-XXXX_
> _ Subject: SO# XXXX_
> _ Department: Customer Service_
> _ Type: Order_
> _ Status: 0. Pending instructions from Mk II_
> _ Priority: Normal_
> 
> _You can check the status of or reply to this ticket online at: [web address removed]
> 
> _
> _Kind regards,_
> 
> _Mk II Watches
> _​
> I'm reading this to mean that I'm one of the 60, given that I paid on Saturday and there were still spots open as of yesterday morning. Does this compare with what others have gotten?


If you have a log in password to the order status portal, you can confirm if there is a message on your order status page that confirms receipt of your payment. I did not get an email except for the order receipt and the automated response with the order portal link. I believe that this is all you get. I placed my order/deposit just a few minutes after the thread was posted on the forum. only 2 folks responded ahead of me.


----------



## tmoris

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



nuovorecord said:


> Did you get an email with a ticket # in the subject line? That's what I got, but the text in the email was different from yours:_
> Thank you for contacting us. This is an automated response confirming the receipt of your ticket. One of our agents will get back to you as soon as possible. For your records, the details of the ticket are listed below. When replying, please make sure that the ticket ID is kept in the subject line to ensure that your replies are tracked appropriately._
> 
> _ Ticket ID: OQA-XXX-XXXX_
> _ Subject: SO# XXXX_
> _ Department: Customer Service_
> _ Type: Order_
> _ Status: 0. Pending instructions from Mk II_
> _ Priority: Normal_
> 
> _You can check the status of or reply to this ticket online at: [web address removed]
> 
> _
> _Kind regards,_
> 
> _Mk II Watches
> _​
> I'm reading this to mean that I'm one of the 60, given that I paid on Saturday and there were still spots open as of yesterday morning. Does this compare with what others have gotten?


yea, mine is:

 *Ticket ID: *JLZ-XXX-XXXXX
*Subject: *SO# XXXX
*Department: *Customer Service
*Type: *Order
*Status: *0. Pending instructions from Mk II
*Priority: *Normal


----------



## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Arthur said:


> If you have a log in password to the order status portal, you can confirm if there is a message on your order status page that confirms receipt of your payment. I did not get an email except for the order receipt and the automated response with the order portal link. I believe that this is all you get. I placed my order/deposit just a few minutes after the thread was posted on the forum. only 2 folks responded ahead of me.


OK, did that. I do have a confirmation of payment. Also, there's an order status labeled "0. Pending Instr." Do you have that, or something different?


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## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Out of curiosity, how long did the Kingston "pre-order" phase take to close out?


----------



## enkidu

nuovorecord said:


> OK, did that. I do have a confirmation of payment. Also, there's an order status labeled "0. Pending Instr." Do you have that, or something different?


that's wheat I have too. Yeah! I think we're both in!


----------



## nuovorecord

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



enkidu said:


> that's wheat I have too. Yeah! I think we're both in!


[high five]


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

About the same time for the first 100 'planks' Things picked up when everybody realised what was going on. That's why the last bunch sold so quickly

I've been thinking (and only Bill will be able to answer this one): when Bill launched the Kingston, he had to find things out along the way. Parts, suppliers, etc. It's safe to assume that Bill has learned from this and that -in case of the GMT- he has covered and conquered a few of the problems before he opened the pre order 'window'. That will speed things up.

Menno


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## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

With the reuse of the case, etc, from the Kingston, I wonder if Project GMT will be lined up to start assembly as soon as the last Kingston is completed. Any idea how many more there are to go?


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## tako_watch

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



BigHaole said:


> With the reuse of the case, etc, from the Kingston, I wonder if Project GMT will be lined up to start assembly as soon as the last Kingston is completed. Any idea how many more there are to go?


got into the pre-order too...ordering about 24 hr after the notice went up.

I am in the GO Kingston group and I do not believe that this group (100) has been started yet...
I am a patient man!!!


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## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Smoke 'em if you got 'em, folks. It's time to sit back and wait. b-)


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## magix7

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

looking forward to the journey with all the chaps here!


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## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Packleader said:


> Smoke 'em if you got 'em, folks. It's time to sit back and wait. b-)
> 
> View attachment 611315


A case back with a similar globe image and MKII replacing the PAN AM would be great for the case back IMHO.


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## messenius

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

+1


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## gonzomantis

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



BigHaole said:


> With the reuse of the case, etc, from the Kingston, I wonder if Project GMT will be lined up to start assembly as soon as the last Kingston is completed. Any idea how many more there are to go?


Don't forget you also have Project 300 to wait for as well. I can't imagine that folks who have paid for that project would be too happy if Project GMT were to "cut in line." There will, of course, also be all of the other models in the Boutique that will need to be delivered as well...


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## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



gonzomantis said:


> Don't forget you also have Project 300 to wait for as well. I can't imagine that folks who have paid for that project would be too happy if Project GMT were to "cut in line." There will, of course, also be all of the other models in the Boutique that will need to be delivered as well...


;-) I'm in both - Project 300 is a more significant and involved project with the additional development of parts and pieces - AFTER we all agree on what it should look like. GMT parts and pieces have already been defined to a degree that is closer to the end-product, so should take less time.

I have NO PROBLEM if GMT comes first! :-!


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## sunster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



gonzomantis said:


> Don't forget you also have Project 300 to wait for as well. I can't imagine that folks who have paid for that project would be too happy if Project GMT were to "cut in line." There will, of course, also be all of the other models in the Boutique that will need to be delivered as well...





OmegaCosmicMan said:


> ;-) I'm in both - Project 300 is a more significant and involved project with the additional development of parts and pieces - AFTER we all agree on what it should look like. GMT parts and pieces have already been defined to a degree that is closer to the end-product, so should take less time.
> 
> I have NO PROBLEM if GMT comes first! :-!


Less time than what?
The only thing defined on the GMT is the case ...everything else appears up for discussion and for further design eg dial, bezel etc. Bill will no doubt take it to the n-th detail before seeking parts etc. 
Still over 100 Kingstons to construct, nevermind the Project 300s.....Look forward to seeing Bill's 'time table'!


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## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



White Tuna said:


> A case back with a similar globe image and MKII replacing the PAN AM would be great for the case back IMHO.


+2

You should add the suggestion to the pile:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/how-would-you-like-panam-look-605034.html


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## sunster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Cool case back


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## Smeg

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!! I went away for business for the past week and I've missed it. AGAIN!!! Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

That's 3. Merde. Can I say merde here? Merdemerdemerdemerdemerde...


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## cpotters

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Smeg said:


> Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!! I went away for business for the past week and I've missed it. AGAIN!!! Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!
> 
> That's 3. Merde. Can I say merde here? Merdemerdemerdemerdemerde...


I sense your pain (ouch! ouch! ouch!). Don't waste another minute - get over to the MkII site and get on the waiting list. You know that the pre-order was only 60 pieces, with another 190 on the back end. Other than an extra bezel and insert, the only thing you'll give up over the pre-orders is the extra $200 savings (which won't hurt so bad spread over the deposit and follow-up payment(s)).

You'll be a relatively low number, probably still under 100 out of 250, and you'll feel a whole lot better, because you'll be in the game. My $0.02.


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## Axelay2003

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

It's a shame I didn't get in the first 60 pre-orders. I can't believe I didn't get a notification


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## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Axelay2003 said:


> It's a shame I didn't get in the first 60 pre-orders. I can't believe I didn't get a notification


*Sorry that you missed out on the initial 60*
*Bill mentioned the GMT project in another thread " What's been going on and what's ahead." 
"Over the next couple of weeks....the Project GMT (aka PanAm project) as I am calling it will be opening for deposits later this week. Details of the structure of the project will be released at the same time." This was in the body of his post,which opened the thread. this was about a week ago.

He then opened this thread and provided a link to the ordering page on the MKII website AFAIK this was the only notification anyone got. There will be a total of 250 watches, so I believe that you will have ample opportunity to get in on the Project GMT at some point.*


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## MHe225

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

True that, *Arthur* and *cpotters*, but I feel *smeg*'s and *Axelay2003*'s pain. I had that very same gut-wrenching, sickening feeling when I missed out on the Kingston Plank orders (learned too late about that project). I managed to get in on General Ordering, but had to get over myself to actually make the deposit .... pay more and get less?? That doesn't sound right. I'm luckier this time and wished that more could be as lucky.

RonB


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## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



MHe225 said:


> True that, *Arthur* and *cpotters*, but I feel *smeg*'s and *Axelay2003*'s pain. I had that very same gut-wrenching, sickening feeling when I missed out on the Kingston Plank orders (learned too late about that project). I managed to get in on General Ordering, but had to get over myself to actually make the deposit .... pay more and get less?? That doesn't sound right. I'm luckier this time and wished that more could be as lucky.
> 
> RonB


Ron, same thing with me. I was off the forum for a quite a while, just too darn busy at work, and lots of projects at home. By the time I got around to checking the site, I saw the Kingston, and it was love at first sight, but alas, I was too late for stage 1 and 2.( I think I missed out on stage 2 by a day!!) I did get in the GO. I have been watching the PAN AM threads like a hawk, waiting for the ordering to begin.Luckily, I saw the link just minutes after Bill opened it.
Hopefully most folks who missed out on the PAN AM Plank, will get a shot at the general order watches when Bill opens up the GO orders.

Another thing, I would get my name on the list as soon as possible. Who knows how many folks will change their mind before their deposit expires. If you are one of the first couple of folks on the list, there is a good chance you could still get in on the original 60 watches.


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## White Tuna

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

On the Project GMT page it says:



> The Project GMT watch will be based on the Kingston™ case. The Project GMT will feature a limited edition dial and case back design that will be developed in conjunction with our clients and forumers.


Which means to me that there may be a general order GMT watch offered in the future but that design will not have the same dial or caseback. Which may not be a bad thing. It also gives me hope that somewhere in 2020 I may be wearing a root beer dialed MKII GMT.


----------



## Axelay2003

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



Arthur said:


> Ron, same thing with me. I was off the forum for a quite a while, just too darn busy at work, and lots of projects at home. By the time I got around to checking the site, I saw the Kingston, and it was love at first sight, but alas, I was too late for stage 1 and 2.( I think I missed out on stage 2 by a day!!) I did get in the GO. I have been watching the PAN AM threads like a hawk, waiting for the ordering to begin.Luckily, I saw the link just minutes after Bill opened it.
> Hopefully most folks who missed out on the PAN AM Plank, will get a shot at the general order watches when Bill opens up the GO orders.
> 
> Another thing, I would get my name on the list as soon as possible. Who knows how many folks will change their mind before their deposit expires. If you are one of the first couple of folks on the list, there is a good chance you could still get in on the original 60 watches.


I did sign up to be on the wait list on 01-27-2012. My wife tells me that I have the patience of a Saint and I know I will not have any problem sitting back for 3 or more years. I just hope I get in the first 60 pre-orders:-d after the possibility of people changing their minds prior to deposit expiration. I have a good feeling that I will end up getting a GMT Project in the end|>.


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## phubaipaul

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.Count me in for the GMT too*

Bill, just ordered and just sent in a deposit. The specs sound fine, especially basing a lot of decisions on the Kingston design to make things less complex. Sure would be nice to have the sapphire bezel. The metal band should be just like the original Rolex. When production starts, I will be ready with the short historical booklet to accompany the GMT. It will be nice to have the new MK II GMT, plus my Rolex GMT2 and the Geochron that is installed over the ham rigs in my amateur radio shack (AA2AV; N0AI; 3W3AV). best, phubaipaul


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## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.Count me in for the GMT too*

I got onto WUS much too late for the Kingston planks and missed the General Order by a few days, so when the Project GMT discussions started, I made a visit to this page a daily thing. I'm glad I was able to get in early and I look forward to this new experience, for me, of buying into a watch that doesn't exist yet. I had been looking at Rolex GMT Master IIs for years, but pulled the Trigger on a white faced Explorer II, a decade ago. Though I have never regretted that purchase, I do find myself still looking at the GMT Master IIs, though the all black ceramic bezel turned me off. I'm very excited to see what this re-imagining of a classic turns out to be. And already owning a wonderful white faced GMT watch, I may be one of the few thinking about the "pilot's" version of Project GMT.:-d


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## rmc

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Just looking for sympathy. I missed out on plank for GMT. The same was true for the Kingston but in the end I was lucky enough to get a plank. I'll hope for the same this time. Patience and persistence. In the end every MK II has been worth the deliberation, anticipation and wait.

So, if you feel yourself impatient look my way.....;-)


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## Freelance

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Frustrated! Frustrated! Frustrated!

I am so tired of missing out on things because it seems like business is conducted solely on THIS forum. As a past MKII customer, how about using the email notification system? How about the MKII Website as a "equal" source of quality information.

As a busy person, I sometimes go 2 or 3 weeks before checking in casually on WUS. What about MKII Fans who 1.) Do not agree to the terms (TOS) of WUS, or have 2.) been banned for some arcane reason.

I am finding it hard to manage business transactions with MKII. I never know if I should go to a the primary web site, the support/ticket/order system, and then the WUS Forum. I never which hoop to jump thru, and where to go.

ARGH. Sorry to vent.

That said, the pre-order link takes you to a $0.00 order page and then to checkout. You can NOT checkout because a $0.00 order is not valid. SO-- How do you get on this secondary wait list. I still want one 

EDIT: Found the link to wait list. http://boutique.mkiiwatches.com/WSWrapper.jsp?mypage=projectGMT_mailing.htm

Thanks,


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## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

AAAGGGHHH!!!!

I went out of the country for business for two weeks...committed the sin of not checking the MKII website or forum during that time, and came back to _THIS!_ Pre-orders opened and subsequently full!!! And all after spending months reading, contributing to, and generally obsessing over the forum threads tied to the P/GMT...

Ugh, that just hurts...

Well, enough ranting and feeling sorry for myself. I've already signed up for the P/GMT wait-list/email-list. To all you MKII veterans out there, is there anything else I can do to increase my chances of ending up with a P/GMT other than continuing to obsessively follow the forum/website/emails? Thanks in advance.

And congrats to all of you who made it into the 60 plank owner spots! I'm not jealous or anything...


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## Packleader

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



JCW1980 said:


> AAAGGGHHH!!!!
> 
> I went out of the country for business for two weeks...committed the sin of not checking the MKII website or forum during that time, and came back to _THIS!_ Pre-orders opened and subsequently full!!! And all after spending months reading, contributing to, and generally obsessing over the forum threads tied to the P/GMT...
> 
> Ugh, that just hurts...
> 
> Well, enough ranting and feeling sorry for myself. I've already signed up for the P/GMT wait-list/email-list. To all you MKII veterans out there, is there anything else I can do to increase my chances of ending up with a P/GMT other than continuing to obsessively follow the forum/website/emails? Thanks in advance.
> 
> And congrats to all of you who made it into the 60 plank owner spots! I'm not jealous or anything...


Chances are that you'll get on the list.

And, if not, there was more than one forum member who mentioned ordering two planks. One to keep and one to sell, perhaps?

Best wishes,
Packleader


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## austinnh

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

This (the above 15 posts or so) is why I was hoping this would be a non-LE watch. Still hoping for a non-LE Kingston cased watch.


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## TheDude

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



austinnh said:


> This (the above 15 posts or so) is why I was hoping this would be a non-LE watch. Still hoping for a non-LE Kingston cased watch.


I would honestly be surprised if the non-limited watches had lots more than 300 or so copies out there. The difference is, those watches don't/didn't enjoy the rabid interest and uptake of the most recent Kingston and GMT projects.

LE/non-LE is largely semantic for a boutique watchmaker and is more business strategy than tangible difference. Not a judgement or indictment, just a conclusion I have come to.


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## austinnh

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

I agree with part of your point. I have a "non limited" watch from Timefactors (PRS-17-C). Only 150 were made, if I recall correctly.

However, I think if more than 300 Kingstons were made, more than 300 would have sold. It's just such a superior watch, from a design perspective, and the WIS community has not overlooked this. Same with the upcoming GMT.

Maybe labeling a watch LE generates more interest. I don't know. I'm not a business person. I'm just a watch guy who likes good watches and wants them to be available to people. But I'm pretty sure the success of the Kingston was due to it being a good watch, not due to it being labeled LE, and not due to it being an homage to the big crown. After all, there are other watches that are LE, and other watches are homages to the big crown. But they do not enjoy the "rabid interest and uptake" that the Kingston does. Why? It's obvious. The Kingston is a better watch.


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## Arthur

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



austinnh said:


> I agree with part of your point. I have a "non limited" watch from Timefactors (PRS-17-C). Only 150 were made, if I recall correctly.
> 
> However, I think if more than 300 Kingstons were made, more than 300 would have sold. It's just such a superior watch, from a design perspective, and the WIS community has not overlooked this. Same with the upcoming GMT.
> 
> Maybe labeling a watch LE generates more interest. I don't know. I'm not a business person. I'm just a watch guy who likes good watches and wants them to be available to people. But I'm pretty sure the success of the Kingston was due to it being a good watch, not due to it being labeled LE, and not due to it being an homage to the big crown. After all, there are other watches that are LE, and other watches are homages to the big crown. But they do not enjoy the "rabid interest and uptake" that the Kingston does. Why? It's obvious. The Kingston is a better watch.


I couldn't agree with you more. I have looked at just about every other "Big Crown" homage, and frankly they all come up far short of the Kingston. I'm not sure how many more (above the 300) could be sold. both the Kingston and the "PanAm" are niche watches. While they are very popular with those of us who really like them, I'm not sure that you could sell tons of them, unless you were in a position to have lots on hand, advertise heavily, and possibly sell through retail outlets. None of which fit MKII's business model. Let's not forget that most watch sales are impulse buys, by folks who are loathe to wait a few days for their watch, much less weeks ,months, or years.

I do think however that there are quite a few of us who are long time vintage Rolex fans who due to financial constraints, could never afford a Big Crown or one of the original "Pan Am" GMT's. And realistically, unless you were very, very wealthy, you would not wear one of them on a regular basis. Parts for them are becoming very scarce, and prohibitively expensive. Rolex long ago quit working on these watches, unless perhaps you have incredible pull with the Rolex hierarchy.

I have several "vintage Rolex watches and I seldom wear them any more, as I'm concerned about their water resistance. In fact a few weeks ago, I was wearing my Rolex 1665 and inadvertently sprayed it with water from a hose nozzle. Several hours later, I noticed it had some condensation inside the crystal. I immediately removed the back, and luckily I couldn't find any water inside the case, but i kept the caseback off for a few hours with the watch under a lamp. I greased the gasket, screwed the caseback on and it's now retired, except for occasions where I know it will not get wet. I'm sure the problem with mine is related to the very old acrylic T-39 "Superdome" crystal which probably has some small cracks around the base. It was serviced about 2 years ago and passed a 5 Atm. pressure test, but now it's not water resistant. It's really hard to relegate fine old watches to the safe, but realistically, they probably just aren't up to the wear and tear of everyday use. That's why I really love the Kingston. It looks like the old watches, but with modern technology it's wearable under all adverse conditions.


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## TheDude

Let's be clear, I was not calling the value or desirability of any of Bill's watches into question. I drink deeply from the MkII Kool Aid jug. 

I was merely pointing out that Bill doesn't make tons and tons of ANY of his models and that overall production levels are probably pretty similar regardless of LE/non-LE designation. They are basically all LE. 

FWIW, I actually take better care of my MkII watches than I do my vintage Rolexes (and I have hand-delivered a watch to Bob Ridley). While it might cost a ton, you could easily replace any component in nearly any vintage Rolex if you had an accident. I would be deathly afraid of trying to procure a Vantage dial in 30 years, let alone a Kingston dial. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



TheDude said:


> They are basically all LE.


My question is more around follow up. As someone who missed the Kingston, is there a chance that there will be more Kingston's available to order in the future. As a limited edition, I expect not. If there were going to be Kingston IIs, I'd be very interested, even if the don't hold the value that the original limited edition ones did.


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## TheDude

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



BigHaole said:


> My question is more around follow up. As someone who missed the Kingston, is there a chance that there will be more Kingston's available to order in the future. As a limited edition, I expect not. If there were going to be Kingston IIs, I'd be very interested, even if the don't hold the value that the original limited edition ones did.


Bill has stated that the case might get used in a non-LE watch someday. It wouldn't have a big crown, gilt dial and hands, or the same bezel insert but it would still be true to a very large number of Rolex Subs of that era.

The problems that I see with increasing production numbers are:

-Any boutique maker orders relatively small runs of components for any project. Additional orders will need to be financially viable for spares and/or a new model. Also, they're likely to be subtly different (Rolex has always had this last problem).

-Making too many of any given watch prevents/delays the introduction of new models. The Kingston will take 3+ years to deliver all 300 from start of the project to finish. We all want new models, and making say an extra 100 would delay this. No company can survive without a strong plan to add new stuff.


----------



## sunster

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*

Was the Kingston case not touted for the Project GMT?

To increase production numbers you either need more 'Bill Yaos' or for Bill to employ watchers who he trusts to do the same OCD precision job as he does


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## BigHaole

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



TheDude said:


> Making too many of any given watch prevents/delays the introduction of new models. The Kingston will take 3+ years to deliver all 300 from start of the project to finish. We all want new models, and making say an extra 100 would delay this. No company can survive without a strong plan to add new stuff.


I guess it's a question of vertical vs horizontal scaling. Does Bill want to leverage the same watch design, by selling it to more people or leverage the existing group of Customers, by selling them new and different designs. Bill is the one with the business experience, certainly not me, so I trust he's doing what will be best. But given the resale demand on the Kingston, there is clearly a market larger than 300 people for that design.


----------



## JCW1980

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



BigHaole said:


> ...If there were going to be Kingston IIs, I'd be very interested, even if the don't hold the value that the original limited edition ones did.


I completely agree. I currently have a 40mm Raven Vintage on my wrist that fills the "vintage sub homage" role in my collection, but if I got the chance to replace it with a Kingston (for a reasonable price), I'd jump on that opportunity immediately. I also plan to own a P/GMT, and it'd be really cool to have a Kingston to go along with it!


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## gmhutton

*Re: Project GMT: Pre-ordering now open&#8230;.*



STEELINOX said:


> Great update !
> 
> _"EEEEEYeeeeaaaaaaaaah"_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More GMT names...
> 
> GLOBE MASTER
> GLOBE STAR
> ORION (for the PAN AM spacecraft in 2001 A Space Odyssey)


cant use globemaster as Omega used it in the 50's.
G


----------

