# The Ultimate Military Watch



## Specialist

I'm a serving infantry soldier and have been extensively researching the best military watch. I have not found a watch that I believe meets 100% the criteria that would, in my opinion at least, be _the ultimate true military watch._ I think only very vew manufacturers come anywhere near a proper military watch and only two (Casio and Suunto) that come close to the ultimate military watch. My criteria for the accolade of the ultimate military watch is:

*Physical Charcteristics (Stealth and Durability)*

Black Inverse/ reverse LCD screen for stealth (e.g. Suunto Military/ Suunto Core Black)
Red backlight LED to maintain natural night vision (like some casio 'military' versions)
Black Titanium or Carbon Fibre case for light weight and durability (like Suunto X-lander Military and Suunto Core)
Rubber ribbed strap with screw on hinges (e.g. like Sunnto military strap found on Suunto Core military version)
Low Temperature operation for arctic operations (e.g. Casio Protrek series)
At least 100M Water resistance (just so there are no doubts if it's dunked or exposed to seriously heavy waterfalls)
Large Recessed buttons with textured surface to avoid getting caught in webbing straps (e.g. Casio Protek series)
Solar Powered (e.g. Casio Protrek) or at least field/ self change battery (e.g. Suunto Xlander military and Suunto Core)
Depth Meter (e.g. Suunto Core Military)
Rotating Bezel marked with cardinal compass points
Large form factor for using with cloves- small watches will not do.
*Timing Functions (in addition to standard time, stopwatch and alarm functions)*

24 Hour time format (like most sport watches)
Countdown timers (found on Protrek, Suunto and many other sport models)
Selectable Flashing Alarm mode (since audible alarms can cost lives in a tactical environment- Casio 'Military' versions have this)
Selectable vibrating alert/ alarm (overcomes audible and visible issue in a tactical situation- not found on any watch)
World times (Convenient in planning and changing zone when travelling- e.g. Casio protrk & Suunto XLander/ Core )
Sunrise/ Sunset times (really important/ essential stuff to know in a military context- e.g. Suunto slander and Suunto Core)
Quick Global silent setting- a single option to kill all audible functions on the watch (not found on any watch AFIK)
*Environmental Functions (ABC, navigation, decision and planning support)*

Electronic Compass (Casio Protrek Protrek PRG-130Y-DR and Suunto X-Lander and Suunto Core)
Compass 3D mode (like more expensive Suunto sports watches)
Compass readings in MILS (not found on any watch)
Barometric Monitoring (Casio Protrek PRG-130Y-DR and Suunto x-lander/Core)
Altimeter (Casio Protrek and Suunto x-lander/Core)
Manual or automatic switching between Barometric and Altimeter readings
Storm Alert (e.g. Suunto Core)
Temperature sensor
Wind chill factor indication (Not seen on any watch I have found so far)
Moon Phase (really important from time to time to know in a military context)
Tide phase/ prediction (really important form time to time to know in a military context)
*GPS Functions (in addition to standard GPS navigation functions)*


Separate battery to normal watch battery (i.e. two batteries so that if GPS battery dies, the watch continues to function)- not found on any watch
Using a single battery to power both GPS and watch functions is the single most important reason why any infantry soldier should not leave the FOB relying upon GPS watch for normal watch functions- leave it in your bed space! The size of the Casio Protrek series or the Suunto wathces should not preclude the adoption of two battery compartments. I'm amazed the manufacturers have not implemented a dual battery solution.

*Watches that meet the above criteria?*
The only watches I have found that come anywhere close to meeting the above are the Casio Protrek series (e.g. PRG-130Y-DR)
), Suunto X-lander and Suunto Core Black Military watches.

However, it is the Suunto Core that has most of the above Criteria. I have owned one for three years and have exposed it to withering machine gun operation, hot and arctic environments, bangs, scrapes and encounters with my webbing, numerous dunkings in the sea, rivers, swamps and lakes not to mention my local swimming pool- even after two field battery changes. I never take it off for hot showers either. It's proved amazingly resilient and continues to be so.

I have used the Suunto Core ABC functions on numerous occasions and have relied on the Sunrise/ Sunset function as input to patrol planning. The barometric functions have helped me to accurately predict on the spot local weather. For this reason, my next watch is another Suunto Core since the current one, although 100% functional, is looking like it's been through the wars and my wife is commenting on it when we go out to smart dinners together!

The Suunto Core Military does not however have the following features (although it is 30M water resistant). Essential/ must have features in red:


Red backlight LED to maintain natural night vision (like some casio 'military' versions)
At least 100M Water resistance (just so there are no doubts if it's dunked or exposed to seriously heavy waterfalls)
Selectable Flashing Alarm mode (Casio 'Military' versions have this)
Selectable vibrating alert/ alarm (overcomes audible and visible issue in a tactical situation- not found on any watch)
Compass 3D mode
Compass readings in MILS ( Not found on any watch)
Wind chill factor Indication (Not seen on any watch I have found so far)
Moon Phase (really important form time to time to know in a military context- Casio pro trek series have this)
Tide phase/ prediction (important form time to time to know in a military context- Casio pro trek series have this)
GPS with separate/ dedicated battery for GPS functions (not found on any watch)
Quick Global silent setting- a single option to kill all audible functions on the watch (not found on any watch AFIK)
_However, I would love to hear from anyone who has found a watch that beats the Suunto Core! I've researched and cannot find anything better._
In conclusion, IMO, I think the *Suunto Core all black Military* watch is the Ultimate Military Watch. It also looks the business |>

P.S. The above features not found on the Suunto is my list of things for Suunto to add to the Core watch


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## charger02

I find reverse LCD to be difficult to see and it doesn't really add anything to my "stealthyness." As for the alarms....its crazy, if you are in a "military environment" where your life or someone else's depends on silence TURN OFF YOUR ALARM!!!! 

But hey, when you live on a FOB its nice to know what time the DFAC opens up for midrats.


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## Specialist

I know some watches reverse LED is difficult to read but you do get used to it. The Suunto's reverse LED is easy to read- I don't give it a thought now. Naturally one would turn off the audible alarm but also having the option of a flashing (or even vibrating alert) would be great. Of course a flashing alert can be a problem also but having the option would be a great.

It is indeed great to know when the NAAFI opens!


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## Janne

Armies and soldiers have done very well with a simple 3 hand watch, one that shows the hours, minutes and seconds.

You do not need more.


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## shameless

hi-nice to know you are home safe -im presuming you are unless you are on the satellite! my son danny is a royal marine and back from his 5th tour in helmand -i know he used the black core suunto -although last time i saw it bits were hanging off although still working -maybe he will find something different when the money starts to roll in as he has handed in his papers to work on the ship protection thing -god bless to you and your mates !


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## Specialist

Armies and soldiers have done very well with a simple bows, arrows, horse drawn carts and great contraptions to log balls of fire 

Now to today. Today, particularly NCOs have enormous workloads- they're expected to do tens time more things with 10 times less manpower. Every bit of information or aid to planning and execution is always a plus. Hence the benefit of better knowledge of how far you climbed and compared with contours on a map is something that can be used to the benefit of the patrol in unknown or difficult terrain. The ability to make a an informed decision on whether to press on or strike camp in anticipation of a storm is useful. Checking time without disturbing night vision etc etc.....

We all survived without mobile phones..... well I think the point is made. We can survive with a basic little watch with hours mins and secs but perhaps in difficult situations, more information will be invaluable.

The question of need is a function of the mission objectives, mission status, patrol disposition, tactical situation and environment. Most troops get by with a simple watch but that does not mean an ABC chronograph is useless. Hence my interest in using technology to gain advantage on the rare occasions that additional information from my watch can help.

The Suunto Core is, so far, the closest IMO to the Ultimate Military Watch and has practical utility in the field.


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## Janne

Friend, I spent 3 years an an officer in a Swedish unit in the Arctic during the Cold War. We had to rely on our skills and knowledge, not on electronics. 

If you can not read a map, you have no use for the Altitude meter in a watch, as the meter has to be callibrated shortly before use if it is any helpful. As soon as the barometric pressure changes, it has to be callibrated again.
I am assuming you want a reading of +- 1 meter to 5 meters.

Electronics can never replace your skills. If you rely on them, you will forget ( or make slight misstakes) your skills, and you are toast when the electronics give up. 

Fombat has not changed much over time, despite what you think.
Without taking sides, or intending any political discussion, remember the Soviet- Afgan war, and of todays war in Afganistan.

Two forces with superior technology against militarily unsophisticated small forces. You know the result in both conflicts.

Thinh also of the Falklands incident in -82.

Skills, not tech, wins wars.

If you need to use a watch, it will be for the time measuring aspect. You need to be able to see it instantly.
imagine you have previously presses some buttons, and the display shoes the time in Peking. Or the temperature. 

Trust me, a good, sturdy 3 hander with good lume is what you need, if you are going into the field.

You list a long list of features you think you need. You do not.
Skills, that you need. If you do not have them, get them.

Let me tell you this: my unit spend 3 to 4 weeks unassisted in the field, in the northern top of Scandinavia.
If we had to, we moved between 70 and 130 km per day, on foot, or on skis. We had to be able to find a specific spot, after maybe 2 weekd of trekking.
Using maps, compass and skill.

You know which watches we had? I had an Omega Tuning fork. One of my colleagues had a Tudor, and another one a Rolex. The rest had just standard swiss watches.
To get an approximation of thr correct time, we 3 with the best watches did average of our watches daily, that was the official time for our squadron.

By all means, buy that toy. But have it for fun, not as an essential tool, as that can kill you.


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## Janne

Just to add a couple of points: which watch is used by some German Elite units? 
Which watch is used by some Canadian and US units? 
The make does not matter . But, they are all 3 handers. I rest my case.


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## Specialist

Janne.

For heaven's sake. Get over yourself. No one has advocated reliance on electronic aids. Who the heck would substitute common core military skills with electronics? Just because one advocates the use of the ABC watch does not mean that it becomes the primary tool- that would be absurd. Perhaps we should strip all patrol commanders if their GPS units in the field and all the other myriad of electronic aids that supplement basic military skills? You getting a little silly here by making illogical presumptions around what I am discussing on this thread. 

An ABC watch is simply an aid to mountaineering/ field operations just as GPS is an aid to Navigation. You've hijacked this thread which is about exploring what can better the Suunto Core and/or the Casio Protrek Series. A majority of troops that I know have more than just the basic three watch. There are many aids to common core skills and ABC watches and GPSs are examples.

In fact, a majority of SF troops I know own and use ABC watches- frequently to supplement/ cross check. 

Please hijack and go off on a bender on another thread. Your view on the ultimate military watch has been very well made. Cheers.


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## charger02

I have to agree with Janne regardless of whether or not his post was a thread hijack. Watches with all their bells and whistles are fantastic but are next to worthless if you don't know your job or basic fieldcraft. 

I could care less what SF units wear on their wrists. I use my watch to tell time...thats it. If I need the myriad of other gadgets that Suuntos, G Shocks or Pathfinder/Pro-treks include then I will use the technology that 10 plus years of war has provided our military and not some piece of plastic I bought at the exchange. But if it works for you then I won't knock it.


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## Specialist

Absolutely agree and neither have I hinted, implied or suggested reliance on technology as a primary tool. Also if you don't know your job and/or basic fieldcraft then you would not fully understand how to use the technology anyway.

ABC watches can be an aid- features like sunrise/ sunset and Moon/Tide graphs and a barometer for judging weather can be a help from time to time. I havce never met a soldier who has viewed the technology to make up for lack of job knowledge or fieldcraft- it's almost an illogical position since a professional soldier would not be a professional soldier if they did not know their job and/or did not know fieldcraft.

The features listed at the beginning of the thread can be a great aid. A blackened watch with red backlight is very useful 100% of the time regardless of how good your field craft is. I owned a Traser P6500 for years and an many occasions I was reminded of how my wrist glowed at night 

The Barometric feature is usefull 100% of the time regardless of soldering skills- keeping an eye on the cloud conditions, temperature and barometric trend can help predict adverse weather if the weather is or can be an impediment to the mission It's use is not a reflection on whether you know your job or not neither does it substitute any fieldcraft.

I have never seen or known anyone using a compass watch as a primary means of navigation. they are not designed for primary navigation so the suggestion that that function would replace map reading is bizarre to say the least.

Anyway, it would be great to discover if there are any watches that match of beat the Suunto Core.


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## Janne

I did not intend hijacking your thread.
You asked " The ultimate military watch" and I gave you my view. 
It is a good quality 3 hander, preferably Quartz, but a good mechanic one will do too, but the mechanic one will be far more expensive.
The German SF use Sinn
Some Canadian and US units use ( Maratac? Forgot the name, and can not quickly find it)

Sorry if you feel I hijacked your thread, but your choices of watches have no connection to your initial query. Way too complex.

The features of those watches are not consistent and precise enough for a practical use.

As a last ditch use - yes, they are OK.
I myself together with my son potentially survived once because of the Compass feature on my T- touch. 


As I wrote, I have extensive knowledge in field ork under adverse conditions. Before and after my military stint, I have been a keen outdoors man.


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## Doug507

Interesting thread. It's going to come down to this - do you or do you not want all that stuff on your watch? If you do, then Specialist has made a pretty good list (except the negative display - even the "good" ones are a pain in the arse in medium-to-low light). If you do not want all that stuff, Janne's points stand. No soldier NEEDS all that, it's a _want_. If I were to lose 20 pounds and 20 years and re-visit my government travel agent, I would bring something that I can rely on... like these:


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## hidden by leaves

Specialist said:


> Absolutely agree and neither have I hinted, implied or suggested reliance on technology as a primary tool. Also if you don't know your job and/or basic fieldcraft then you would not fully understand how to use the technology anyway.
> 
> ABC watches can be an aid- features like sunrise/ sunset and Moon/Tide graphs and a barometer for judging weather can be a help from time to time. I havce never met a soldier who has viewed the technology to make up for lack of job knowledge or fieldcraft- it's almost an illogical position since a professional soldier would not be a professional soldier if they did not know their job and/or did not know fieldcraft.
> 
> The features listed at the beginning of the thread can be a great aid. A blackened watch with red backlight is very useful 100% of the time regardless of how good your field craft is. I owned a Traser P6500 for years and an many occasions I was reminded of how my wrist glowed at night
> 
> The Barometric feature is usefull 100% of the time regardless of soldering skills- keeping an eye on the cloud conditions, temperature and barometric trend can help predict adverse weather if the weather is or can be an impediment to the mission It's use is not a reflection on whether you know your job or not neither does it substitute any fieldcraft.
> 
> I have never seen or known anyone using a compass watch as a primary means of navigation. they are not designed for primary navigation so the suggestion that that function would replace map reading is bizarre to say the least.
> 
> Anyway, it would be great to discover if there are any watches that match of beat the Suunto Core.


Here's some real-world reading for you: https://www.watchuseek.com/f7/military-personal-what-watch-you-wearing-568583.html


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## Janne

Specialist said:


> I'm a serving infantry soldier and have been extensively researching the best military watch. I have not found a watch that I believe meets 100% the criteria that would, in my opinion at least, be _the ultimate true military watch._ I think only very vew manufacturers come anywhere near a proper military watch and only two (Casio and Suunto) that come close to the ultimate military watch. My criteria for the accolade of the ultimate military watch is:
> 
> *Physical Charcteristics (Stealth and Durability)*
> 
> Black Inverse/ reverse LCD screen for stealth (e.g. Suunto Military/ Suunto Core Black). Useless
> Red backlight LED to maintain natural night vision (like some casio 'military' versions). Useless
> Black Titanium or Carbon Fibre case for light weight and durability (like Suunto X-lander Military and Suunto Core). Fine, but stainless steels is gine too. Any alloy will do in fact
> Rubber ribbed strap with screw on hinges (e.g. like Sunnto military strap found on Suunto Core military version). Synthetic and natural rubber goes hard and brittle in cold temperatures. Metal bracelet is the best
> Low Temperature operation for arctic operations (e.g. Casio Protrek series) All eatches work strapped to your wrist
> At least 100M Water resistance (just so there are no doubts if it's dunked or exposed to seriously heavy waterfalls). Absolutely
> Large Recessed buttons with textured surface to avoid getting caught in webbing straps (e.g. Casio Protek series). Unlikely scenario
> Solar Powered (e.g. Casio Protrek) or at least field/ self change battery (e.g. Suunto Xlander military and Suunto Core). Good feature solar, if you attempt to replace the battery yourself, you might lose the WR. And need to lug on a set of watch making tools
> Depth Meter (e.g. Suunto Core Military). Forget this feature.
> Rotating Bezel marked with cardinal compass points. Excellent feature, makes the emergency ompass taking easier
> Large form factor for using with cloves- small watches will not do. In fact, smaller ( under or around 40 mm) is better, as you eant to put it under the battle dress/ uniform
> *Timing Functions (in addition to standard time, stopwatch and alarm functions)*
> 
> 24 Hour time format (like most sport watches). Excellent feature, specially if you will be deployed in the Arctic in winter
> Countdown timers (found on Protrek, Suunto and many other sport models)
> Selectable Flashing Alarm mode (since audible alarms can cost lives in a tactical environment- Casio 'Military' versions have this). Useless, and can cost your life if you forget
> Selectable vibrating alert/ alarm (overcomes audible and visible issue in a tactical situation- not found on any watch)
> World times (Convenient in planning and changing zone when travelling- e.g. Casio protrk & Suunto XLander/ Core ). cool, but not really useful?
> Sunrise/ Sunset times (really important/ essential stuff to know in a military context- e.g. Suunto slander and Suunto Core). sunset and sunrise is the same time as yesterday.
> Quick Global silent setting- a single option to kill all audible functions on the watch (not found on any watch AFIK)
> *Environmental Functions (ABC, navigation, decision and planning support). Cool, but not really useful*
> 
> Electronic Compass (Casio Protrek Protrek PRG-130Y-DR and Suunto X-Lander and Suunto Core)
> Compass readings in MILS (not found on any watch)
> Barometric Monitoring (Casio Protrek PRG-130Y-DR and Suunto x-lander/Core)
> Altimeter (Casio Protrek and Suunto x-lander/Core)
> Manual or automatic switching between Barometric and Altimeter readings
> Storm Alert (e.g. Suunto Core)
> Temperature sensor
> Wind chill factor indication (Not seen on any watch I have found so far)
> Moon Phase (really important from time to time to know in a military context). Same moon as yesterday
> Tide phase/ prediction (really important form time to time to know in a military context) i hope you are joking?
> * *


*
*
Just some thought from a guy that did war carrying a bow and arrow!


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## Specialist

Don't slag off my bow and arrow! I occasionally feel the need to revert to it 

The list above bar a few items is covered by the Suunto. I have occasionally used each of the features but mostly use the barometric function.

I'm not a fan of shiny/ silver coloured watches. I think any watch where a techno stack or basic timepiece needs to be black with weak nighttime illumination. For electronic timepieces, red backlight is ideal. Only seen red backlight on G-Shock Casio Military models.

The G-Shock shown above was the exact watch I had for many years. Amazing battery life


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## charger02

"Tide phase/ prediction (really important form time to time to know in a military context) i hope you are joking?"

Perhaps you are planning an amphibious operation and you have no true hydrography assets at your disposal!!!!!

I would have to disagree about metal bracelets. I think a NATO/Zulu would be more durable and loss of a watch minimized if a spring bar broke (happened to me in Helmand and had to keep my watch in my pocket......travesty!).


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## Piloto

Nevermind. I'm sitting this one out.


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## The Elf

I would also go with a G shock, I have a Riseman, the altimeter was next to useless grot anything other than giving a rough estimate when hiking. your navigational needs will almost certainly demand better gear than that, the barometer could be considered useful if you wanted to know what the weather was doing. 
G shocks are available with the three hand plus digital which can be useful to glance at and tell the time quickly. I am not sure you will find any better than one from the suunto or Casio range, but please let us know what you decide on . Despite not being an armed forces member, a childhood in the Air Cadets led me to enjoying tactical gear :thumbup:


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## Doug507

Piloto said:


> Nevermind. I'm sitting this one out.


I was right there with you!


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## Janne

Specialist said:


> Don't slag off my bow and arrow! I occasionally feel the need to revert to it
> 
> I'm not a fan of shiny/ silver coloured watches. I think any watch where a techno stack or basic timepiece needs to be black with weak nighttime illumination.


A sharp piece of steel, or a wire of steel is good too!

Now, your second sentence tells me you are a real soldier. I mean it. You want a weak nite time lume. Excellent, simply excellent, observation!
So many wannabee warriors/ desk warriors feel the need for a huge, bright lume. I have several times pointed out the importance of keeping your nighttime vision, I have lost the count!

Edit: I forgot to mention why a 3 hand watch is useful over a digital only watch.
you can take out a pretty accurate compass bearing by using the hands and the sun. Only a few degress off in most cases, and I guess even less with a bezel with compass features.


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## Specialist

charger02 said:


> "Tide phase/ prediction (really important form time to time to know in a military context) i hope you are joking?"


No, not joking. Tide prediction can be useful in a military context. Seriously, you don't know this???

Anyway, some Suunto Core Military Versions have a strap ( Core Black Rubber Strap | Suunto )with a double screw-down bracelet lock- mine has this. I know the spring bar set-up is absolutely useless- just putting on or taking off a seriously heavy bergen will rip the watch off your wrist. My Suunto Core has been caught up loads of times but always stayed on because of that double screw locking system.

Look, at the end of the day this thread is about the ultimate Military watch that is essentially a set of time, environment and navigation tools that can aid a soldier in the field (either as a backup or to support a decision) from time to time during a tab or at a planning phase or in case of emergency. It's not, nor can it possibly be a replacement for normal skills, drills and SOPs. Why anyone would think this is rather strange since no one suggested it.

Furthermore, if you did not know how to use a compass and map and/or understand the relevance of altitude in reference to topographic maps, an ABC watch would be rather useless to you. So the logic of the discussion that a soldier who cannot map read and does not know his fieldcraft using an ABC watch instead is flawed to say the least.

So far, the best set of tools on a wrist IMO is the Suunto Core Black closely followed by the Casio Pathfinder (all black version). If i'm going out in harms way, in addition to my weapon, body armour, Silva Compass, Map and training I'd also, if given the choice, in addition to my Gerber Multi-tool want a Garmin 401 GPS and an ABC watch like the Suunto Core. In reality, that is what I load up with anyway.

Perhaps we should condemn the Gerber Multitool in case it compensates for a soldier's lack of a vice-like grip and/or lack of sharp teeth  I've used my gerber to wrench out a stuck 7.62 round from a GPMG at at time when that GPMG was really needed!

There are many so-called military watches that are solid steel, silver coloured with nice shiny bracelets costing upwards of £800! What a waste of money when you could have a G-Shock for under £100 that does the same thing plus world time and count-down timers and not give you away in reflected sunlight.

I'm particularly after a replacement for the Suunto and so far can't find anything better so I may end up buying a nice new version and sell my old one.


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## Specialist

Janne said:


> Just to add a couple of points: which watch is used by some German Elite units?
> Which watch is used by some Canadian and US units?
> The make does not matter . But, they are all 3 handers. I rest my case.


Have you heard about budgeting, military cut-backs, bean counters and the euro crisis? Have you checked out the thread about what Military people (who can afford their own personal watch) wear? I rest my case for the A,B, AB or ABC wrist watch as a useful tool from time to time 

I did have a Traser P6500 (apparently issue to US Navy Seals) which is a basic three hand watch and did occasionally check rough direction. That's when I started to think why I should get a more accurate tool. That's when I chose the Suunto.

I was surprised to see the Timex Ironman cited by many posters since I think it's not a very tough watch.


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## Janne

Well, we have different experiences etc, which is fine. But you should know that the vast majority of units worldwide can do without the electronical help as well as those with the help!

The main thing is that YOU choose a timepiece YOU feel happy with, without breaking your budget!

But I am intrigued by the tides indicator, please explain! I have been thinking about that one most of the afternoon, but can not find a use for it ( except if you are in a beach assault situation, then it could in theory be good to know where the beach/ surf is) .

Also the Wind chill indicator is useless, I can explain that later, if you request so.


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## Janne

Specialist said:


> Have you heard about budgeting, military cut-backs, bean counters and the euro crisis? Have you checked out the thread about what Military people (who can afford their own personal watch) wear? I rest my case for the A,B, AB or ABC wrist watch as a useful tool from time to time
> 
> I did have a Traser P6500 (apparently issue to US Navy Seals) which is a basic three hand watch and did occasionally check rough direction. That's when I started to think why I should get a more accurate tool. That's when I chose the Suunto.
> 
> I was surprised to see the Timex Ironman cited by many posters since I think it's not a very tough watch.


Yep, in my days Sweden had huge Armed Forces, that were consuming a very large chunk of the BNP, only second to Israel. We had to save, count, reuse, repair. That incredibly boring bit was a large part of our regiment time.

I do not know, but the Timex seems to be quite tough. But I guess if it breaks, it is cheap enough to get a newone without shedding any tears?


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## Specialist

Janne said:


> Well, we have different experiences etc, which is fine. But you should know that the vast majority of units worldwide can do without the electronical help as well as those with the help!
> 
> The main thing is that YOU choose a timepiece YOU feel happy with, without breaking your budget!
> 
> But I am intrigued by the tides indicator, please explain! I have been thinking about that one most of the afternoon, but can not find a use for it ( except if you are in a beach assault situation, then it could in theory be good to know where the beach/ surf is) .
> 
> Also the Wind chill indicator is useless, I can explain that later, if you request so.


Tides can be useful depending on which branch of the military you are in and what role you play in a particular unit, mission, combat support and what the enemy may or may not able to do in say a coastal environment.

If you're in a mechanised role for example, tides will be of no use unless you plan to steal a canoe or boat in an E&E situation ;-) Planning a boat trip when the boat is on it's keel would be silly- you'd get muddy, look very silly trying to climb up a boat in mud, probably get caught and upset your mum or you'd turn back and risk getting caught anyway.

Why is wind chill indicator not useful?


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## Janne

Ok, do it was in an amphibian scenario.

"Windchill factor" became popular ( in Europe anyway) when those adventurers and so called survival experts started doing the TV programs. It sounds much more impressive to say that the (W.chill) temperature is Minus 50Celsius than the real temperature ( minus 30 Celsius).

In degrees below - 20 Celsius you do not have any exposed skin, you cover up, no matter how much wind here is.

In the Arctic climate ( remember, that was my area of operation) you always have an outer layer of a wind stopping material ( usually a white 2 piece set, the parka had a hood with a drawstring) . 
You cover the head and face with a balaclava, white silk down to about - 10 C, a white woolen one below that, and if it is very cold, say under -35 or so, with 2 balaclavas, the silk one to the skin, and the woolen on the outside. This only if you did not ski or do anything physical.
Lower the temp by maybe 20 degrees from what I wrote if you do physical stuff.

For example, hard skiing ( full load in backpack, arms, ammo, all other stuff we had to carry, total weight approx 70 kilos) down to - 15, no matter which strength of wind, we only had the silk balaclava, cotton battle trousers, thin cotton shirt and the 2 piece overall. Plus gloves.
Always the 2 piece overall, as camouflage.
So practically your skin is never exposed for long to the wind. 


The art of dressing correctly was very important for us. We had to think about the workload ( to be too hot and to sweat is lethal) and the temperatures all the time. 
When we got the new soldiers to train, the temerature awareness was one of the most important educations, how to dress, how to behave, how to take a pee and a dump, symptoms of frost bite cures, etc.
Sure, sometimes we miscalculated, or the temerature dropped unexpectly. Most of us got frost bitten ears, nose, cheeks.
My ear tops still itch if I am too long in sun. And my nose back peels. 
30 years later.

Of course, you can imagine how nice it is to have a wee in -45 or even worse, a dump. Thankfully the food we were eating was highly concentrated dehydrated stuff, without any fiber, so we needed a dump maybe once every 4 days or less.

I am sure everyone has heard the story that your wee freezes in mid air. It does if it is around - 45 or below.
And you do not expose your manhood for long. Most of us had yellow stained overalls after a few days out!

I should add that no in my unit during my time there got any permanent damage duevto frost bite.

The people that tought us the skills in cold weather, general survival etc ( non military stuff) were specisl instructors belonging to the indeginous people called Sami. They are a kind of Inuit people. Reindeer herders etc.

Fantastic guys. Could not take the drink ( lack of an Enzyme) but absolutely the toughest and meanest guys I have ever met. 
We sisies folded after skiingf fully loded for maybe 150 km. Those guys made a fire, had some salt coffee, and could go on an hour recon to check the immediate area.


----------



## ancient_mariner

I usually keep away threads like these because there are so many tastes in watches than there are people. And what ever watch works with you and you are happy with it, its fine by me. But now I would like to make an exception and give my insights about this matter 

Janne has great points in his posts and I agree with them. I spend most of my army time in the arctic circle, I am a reserve officer and a platoon leader, we have a reserve army so vast majority of Finnish men are military trained. Temperatures ranged from -48 celsius to +35 celsius, lot of snow in the winter and mosquitos in the summer The watch I wore was a simple analog quartz watch with metal bracelet, nothing fancy but it survived just fine. Size was something 36-38mm, definetely not bigger than that. In my opinion, basic watches are so much tougher than we give them credit. I think many manufacturers just create hype when they are introducing "tough" watches and we as consumers fall for it, and I am not an exception.

One thing that often puzzles me when people give suggestions in threads like this, is that often the watches they suggest are huge. From my experience, watch should be small and slim enough so it would not get caught with rifle strap, backpack straps, combat belt, clothing etc. I have Suunto Vector and I really like it and I use it mainly for sports and outdoor. It is quite a big watch, although very comfortable to wear. I know many army personel use it, but in my opinion it would be too big. If you are interested about Suuntos, have you checked the Observer? It is a smaller ABC and I think it would be better choice for military use than Vector or Core. Few analog quartz watches that come in to mind are Citizen BM6400 and Citizen BJ0000-04H, simple average sized and very affordable watches.

I hope you find the watch that suits you. Keep safe.


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## Specialist

Thanks Janna. That's really great info. This is the kind of knowledge, skill and experience that is needed to properly interpret the scientific measurement by an ABC watch.

The Suunto Core is rated down to -20C operation (verses -10 for Casio Protrek range) which in reality may well be -27C because of the effect of body temp on the watch reading.

The wind chill factor may be useful depending on the troop condition, weather, distance left to cover and the time constraints. The information I think can be very easily incorporated into an ABC watch is covered in the Wikipedia description Wind chill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

The chart shown is what can be represented on the watch. Only sections of the chart need to be shown on the watch face depending on the measured temperature range in a given period sample. The period sample can be a user setting which will be based on the users judgement of the environmental conditions.

What you have described above is the knowledge and experience that is combined with whatever the watch may be indicating to very quickly make an informed decision- i.e. the watch can become a decision support tool and not the decision maker nor can this utility be judged as replacing knowledge, skill and experience!


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## Specialist

ancient_mariner said:


> I usually keep away threads like these because there are so many tastes in watches than there are people. And what ever watch works with you and you are happy with it, its fine by me. But now I would like to make an exception and give my insights about this matter
> 
> Janne has great points in his posts and I agree with them. I spend most of my army time in the arctic circle, I am a reserve officer and a platoon leader, we have a reserve army so vast majority of Finnish men are military trained. Temperatures ranged from -48 celsius to +35 celsius, lot of snow in the winter and mosquitos in the summer The watch I wore was a simple analog quartz watch with metal bracelet, nothing fancy but it survived just fine. Size was something 36-38mm, definetely not bigger than that. In my opinion, basic watches are so much tougher than we give them credit. I think many manufacturers just create hype when they are introducing "tough" watches and we as consumers fall for it, and I am not an exception.
> 
> One thing that often puzzles me when people give suggestions in threads like this, is that often the watches they suggest are huge. From my experience, watch should be small and slim enough so it would not get caught with rifle strap, backpack straps, combat belt, clothing etc. I have Suunto Vector and I really like it and I use it mainly for sports and outdoor. It is quite a big watch, although very comfortable to wear. I know many army personel use it, but in my opinion it would be too big. If you are interested about Suuntos, have you checked the Observer? It is a smaller ABC and I think it would be better choice for military use than Vector or Core. Few analog quartz watches that come in to mind are Citizen BM6400 and Citizen BJ0000-04H, simple average sized and very affordable watches.
> 
> I hope you find the watch that suits you. Keep safe.


I agree, the Suunto Core (and other similar sized ABC watches) is large and it does get in the way of webbing. It's a particular pain when putting on a large heavy backpack but I've gotten used to it -somewhat. The observer is shiny and so could stand out in environments where you would not necessarily be fully covered as is the case in arctic operations. I'm frequently in hot climes where sometimes I need to roll up my sleeves- but this might not be the case for everyone.

I think, tactically whatever watch whether ABC or basic should be matt black.


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## Janne

AncientMariner, I know ( well, knew, in the Stone Age...) Sodankyla and the guys there quite well. I was based in Arvidsjaur.


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## cal..45

The ultimate military watch?

Doesn't exist (yet) in my opinion. However, based on my experience I usually end up wearing two watches, one digital (either a G-shock or a Timex) and one analog H3 three hands for telling quickly the time in any light condition without the need to charge up the lume or to press a button.

I must admit that digital watches are far more preferbale for me, since they are simply tougher and offer a lot of useful functions beyond just telling the time. I have a fairly ammount of analog and digital watches and to be honest - all of them (and many already have) would do fine as a military timepiece but if it came down to pick *THE ONE* out of my collection, it is either the Timex Expedition T498519....



















or the G-Shock G-7900-3:










The Timex is a dream when it comes to the functions you may want to have or you may not, because it is highly configurable. Its vibration alarm is very useful for situations where you need to be reminded of something but you do not want draw attention to others.

The G-Shock is one hell of a tough watch, that can survive a 155mm shell blast within the kill zone (although you most probably will not) and will do anything you throw at it.

Both are battery operated and for a good reason - they run on high-power Lithium cells (CR2032 and CR2025) known for their superior functionality in extreme climates and they both have excellent to read high-contrast positive displays and no nonsense negative displays which DO NOT add anything to your stealthiness but admittedly satisfy the coolness factor only. The crystal of a negative display will reflect as many sunlight as one with positive display. If you really want to improve your stealtiness wear the watch either under your sleeve/glove, cover the crystal (eg with an old sock) or wear it inside your wrist.

cheers


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## Janne

Janne said:


> Just to add a couple of points: which watch is used by some German Elite units?
> Which watch is used by some Canadian and US units?
> The make does not matter . But, they are all 3 handers. I rest my case.


Found it. Sinn is used by the German SF border/ customs guys and Marathon by the US and Canadians.


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## Janne

And I see that TopSpecUs.com have up to 25% off right now!

( I have no affiliation with them.)


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## Specialist

 Ok. After having had some very useful opinions above and extensive research on the Web, the two contenders for I think are Suunto & Casio that provide a timing, environment and Navigation toolset that can be useful in a military context.

*Casio ABC Watches*
The Casio (very popular among military personell) is tremendously tough and fantastic value for money but its sensors, according to many user experiences seem to be inconsistent and/or inaccurate as a result. The Suunto is also very tough (but perhaps not as tough as G-Shock) and popular among many military personnel. I have seen many regular infantry and SF wear the Suunto All Black as well as the similar Suunto Vector Military watch.

*Suunto*
The Suunto however packs a set of time, enironment & navigation tools plus sunset/sunrise into a single time piece. Casio does not have Storm Alerts for example. Also, IMO, the Suunto has the easiest interface I have ever seen on a watch. The suunto is extremely easy to use on the move- no faffing around with menu options. The final and ultimate quality that beats the casio is the accuracy of the Suunto's sensors. These have been tested by mountaineers, skydivers and soldiers and the reports are generally impressive.

*Who needs these watches?*
There has been much comment here about whether a solider needs all the ABC features but that is question for another thread, If you're a patrol commander, 2I/C, Platoon Sargeant or an SF trooper, having a Suunto on your wrist can, IMO and experience, be a plus in the event that you're conducting ops in moutainous regions, vulnerable to weather changes and in need of a back-up navigation. It's an additional toolset that you can ignore or use to augment your information and/or planning.

Furthermore, you can only make best use of an ABC watch if you have strong map & compass skills and know your fieldcraft. The ultimate military watch is no substitute for common core infantry skills. Some have suggested that a soldier wearing a watch like the Suunto is perhaps compensating for poor or lacking infantry skills- this is an illogical argument/ position.

*Conclusion*
My conclusion is that the clear winner, for me and IMO, is the Suunto Core All Black Military edition watch. I have spent many evenings researching, downloading watch manuals to ensure I understood each contenders capabilities and the Suunto, for the reasons stated at the beginning came out on top.

I was hoping that someone may have come across an ABC watch that could contend with Suunto and/or Casio but it appears there is none. There are some mountaineering specific time peices but they have massive protruding buttons that woudld be ripped off by have backpack straps and in any case, they tend to be nice shiney (steel) watches that are not very stealthy.

For this reason, I am selling my 2 year old Suunto Core All Black Military edition watch and have today bought a brand new absilutely identical version. Why replace one with another identical watch? Becuase it is the ultimate Military watch and because my old Suunto Core All Black does indeed look like it has been through the wars and my wife says it looks scruffy (except for the mineral glass face which is spotless) when we go out for posh dinners 

P.S. I am not in anyway, nor have I ever been nor will I ever be affiliated with Suunto. I am just a customer of Casio for the last 30+ years and a customer of Suunto for the last 2+ years.


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## GatorJ

Specialist said:


> I know some watches reverse LED is difficult to read but you do get used to it. The Suunto's reverse LED is easy to read- I don't give it a thought now. Naturally one would turn off the audible alarm but also having the option of a flashing (or even vibrating alert) would be great. Of course a flashing alert can be a problem also but having the option would be a great.
> 
> It is indeed great to know when the NAAFI opens!


No, you don't get used to a watch that is difficult or impossible to read. You simply stop wearing it or rely on something else for your time information.


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## Specialist

GatorJ said:


> No, you don't get used to a watch that is difficult or impossible to read. You simply stop wearing it or rely on something else for your time information.


I think in the case of the Suunto Core All Black you'll find most users will disagree with you. I have worn this watch for 2+ years and I do not notice or even give the reverse LED any thought. Why? Because it works, plain and simple. I'm sure there are other watch brands where reverse LED implementation or contrast settings are poor and thus truly unusable but the Suunto Core All Black, Suunto Vector Military are not among them. They are popular watches.


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## hidden by leaves

Specialist said:


> I think in the case of the Suunto Core All Black you'll find most users will disagree with you.


Not me. Had one, sold it. I found the display awful. I can't imagine anyone with a real need for quick and sure ability to see the time or whatever would rely on a negative display on any watch, including the referenced Suunto.

This watch, which I have definitely not sold, has the best and clearest digital display I've ever seen in my life:










This is a close second of mine, although admittedly a bit of a different animal... (with options for time+other info. displayed or redundant time display)










Cheers,
HBL


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## Janne

Pics do not show.


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## icarian

Show on this end (using FireFox FWIW). Nice X-33v1 in the second pic. For a mil aviator, that one definitely has its applications (I'm particularly fond of the Julian Date / UTC window).


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## charger02

I was thinking, for all the kudos that G Shocks (I would include any plastic watch) gets for being able to stand up to just about anything, they really cannot endure prolonged use of DEET or Off.


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## Janne

charger02 said:


> I was thinking, for all the kudos that G Shocks (I would include any plastic watch) gets for being able to stand up to just about anything, they really cannot endure prolonged use of DEET or Off.


You dgid find a truly weak spot. Low resistency against solvents.
But I do not think that Specialist or any other soldiers use spray on bug repellent?


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## charger02

Janne said:


> You dgid find a truly weak spot. Low resistency against solvents.
> But I do not think that Specialist or any other soldiers use spray on bug repellent?


Ummmm...is that a serious question?


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## Specialist

charger02 said:


> I was thinking, for all the kudos that G Shocks (I would include any plastic watch) gets for being able to stand up to just about anything, they really cannot endure prolonged use of DEET or Off.


I believe G-Shocks are in fact resin as opposed to plastic. The Suunto watches use some form of impact resistant plastic that I cannot imagine would be affcated by deet.

I have used bug repllant many times- I think deet based. I never noticed any adverse effect on my Cssio G-Shock which was a few years ago.

What sort of effect have you noticed on the G-Shock resin?


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## charger02

My G basically feel apart after using "Off" for a prolonged period of time. I was pretty surprised when it happened. But the duty station I was at was a training command and the environment was extremely demanding. It could have been a combo of environment, abuse, and bug repellant.


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## Doug507

Being an avid camper here in Minnesota, I am an expert in mosquito repellents. Both G-shocks and my old Vector are very susceptible to deet. It is the Achilles heel of both watches.


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## Janne

Specialist said:


> I believe G-Shocks are in fact resin as opposed to plastic. The Suunto watches use some form of impact resistant plastic that I cannot imagine would be affcated by deet.
> 
> I have used bug repllant many times- I think deet based. I never noticed any adverse effect on my Cssio G-Shock which was a few years ago.
> 
> What sort of effect have you noticed on the G-Shock resin?


Plastic is the same as resin. An oil derivative, so can be affected by various solvents



charger02 said:


> Ummmm...is that a serious question?


Yes. Why not?
We used an insect repellent in stick form. Effective, untill we were introduced ( by the Sami guys in our unit) to an oldfashined, natural repellent. A mix of animal fat and Stockholm Tar. No skin irritations, fantastic repellent properties, automatic camoflage of the visible skin.
The only downside to it is that the uniform parts get so stained, that they had to be replaced.

If the modern soldiers use insect repellent in a spray can, it is quite interesting if the plastc cased watches get damaged. Not for the looks of the watch, but for the function of the push buttons and seals.


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## charger02

I asked if your question was serious as there are numerous environments around the world that require daily application of insect repellant. I suppose you could do without it.....at your own peril.


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## Janne

Sure, you need to apply bug repellent, but I can not see anybody carrying around spraycans, not if you staying in the bush for several weeks at a time. 
I am sure the Armies worldwide have a similar application system we had and still have. A stick similar to lipstick, but thicker. About 2 cm across. With that, you do not have any solvents that are potentially harmful to the plastic/resin case, pushers and strap.

Most of the boys in my unit got eventually naturally immunised. I still am, after 30 years, which benefits me here in Cayman. Yes, sure they bite me, but I do not get any bumps, swelling or itch.


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## charger02

If you spread load a can for each man in your team, squad, platoon, company, unit..whatever you don't add too much weight. Works during training but I would hesitate to use the same measures on a deployment if it isn't necessary.

This is getting off topic. When it comes to watches I prefer G Shocks as my primary but with NATO's becoming more and more popular my options have opened up. Not sure if I would take an automatic on a deployment but there is always a first for everything.


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## Janne

No, it is not off topic. If the OP is maybe buying a watch largely made out of plastic, and has to be sure he can rely on it and all its functions ( in extreme need), then I think it is quite interesting if the spray-on bug juice damages the watch.

OT: A normal sized can should maybe last 5 days, if you apply the stuff on your arms, face, neck and head 6 times every 24 hours. If you carry 60 kilos in total, each extra can feels heavy. The sticks last for a couple of weeks each.

There is a saying about the straw that broke the camel's back. Applies here too.
We do not know the type of unit Specialist is in, but he mentioned he prefers a light watch, I believe?

I would conclude my disussion about the bug stuff: If you use spray, it may damage the plastic. Buy metal watch.
If you use a stick/ cream, plastic watch will be fine!


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## icarian

Gents,

Insect repellent (spray / liquid) "destroying" a G-Shock or similar is not a hard and fast rule. I'm staring at a Luminox "SEAL" watch on my desk that I've had since about 2000. I wore it, a Marathon Navigator, and a G-Shock 6600 (which was already three or four years old) through about 11 months of Bahama temporary duty during 2002-2003...where "OFF" and other spray on insect repellents were daily routines the entire time. All are still kicking perfectly. Most G-Shocks (or at least those that I've had...no new ones in the last six years) have metal lugs for the watch pins which is where I'd expect the failure to occur. That G-Shock even still has its original band and I and others (loaned it out) truly did our best to trash it. No dice. It has been relegated to the drawer for a long time, but it is still sitting there keeping time and ready to go if I get a nostalgic hair.

I've also done about four years (not including the requisite deployments to other areas time) in Alaska's Interior where I suspect the summer mosquito population is somewhat like Finland's (muskeg, peat bogs, lots of standing water that can't drain off because permafrost makes for a nice nesting ground)? I have a Nike Oregon Mil-Spec WA 90002 ABC watch that was my daily for just about that entire time (plastic cover with metal body just like a G-Shock). Same mosquito repellent spray as the Bahamas and the one thing that it did do to one of the OEM wrist bands is stain the plastic / rubber strap (spotted it). But the watch (and OEM band) are still going strong...

That Nike Mil-Spec is still my most comfortable watch, but not it, any Luminox, Seiko, Marathon (SAR & Navigator), Suunto Core, Sinn U1, etc that I own could usurp either of my G-Shocks in the toughness compartment (metal / plastic / whatever case and DEET not withstanding). I have no doubt that someone or two has got the better of a G-Shock basic watch, but I'd say that from the circles that I've run in, that they are a minority experience. And no, not a fan-boy (three years since I've even thrown one on the wrist), just a common benchmark that I *believe" many other "military" watches are measured against in that one particular area (toughness).

Now please rebut accordingly or continue your discussion about the ultimate mil watch. I just didn't want others in the peanut gallery to think that line of thought as a hard and fast par (if they haven't experienced it personally).;-)


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## Flightpath

Piloto said:


> Nevermind. I'm sitting this one out.



I was going to stay out too, but has anyone considered carrying a Seiko titanium diver (not much reflection on mine) and a small GPS (I have Garmin E-trex) on your webbing/Molle vest ect.?

cheers,

-John:-!


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## Shawnny

Just wear a watch on both wrists.


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## Simon

I have a great pal who served for over 20yrs in the British Army including 17yrs with SAS - seeing action here there n everywhere. He gifted me the watch he wore daily for many years in many tight spots - a cheap standard issue G10 on NATO. He told me when in the high hills he drew from stores a GShock with Altimeter. Retired, he now enjoys wearing an Omega PO. I have always found it interesting when discussing "kit" with him that he was rarely bothered about exactly what he used - it was all rather utilitarian. When pressed about preferences, it was generally what he had used most often and got most used to that he commended. His attention to detail on kit, or rather obvious lack of it, was in direct contrast to his passion and focus on fitness of body and mind, and in particular almost obsessional zeal to constantly learn new "skills".


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## Janne

Simon said:


> I have a great pal who served for over 20yrs in the British Army including 17yrs with SAS - seeing action here there n everywhere. He gifted me the watch he wore daily for many years in many tight spots - a cheap standard issue G10 on NATO. He told me when in the high hills he drew from stores a GShock with Altimeter. Retired, he now enjoys wearing an Omega PO. I have always found it interesting when discussing "kit" with him that he was rarely bothered about exactly what he used - it was all rather utilitarian. When pressed about preferences, it was generally what he had used most often and got most used to that he commended. His attention to detail on kit, or rather obvious lack of it, was in direct contrast to his passion and focus on fitness of body and mind, and in particular almost obsessional zeal to constantly learn new "skills".


Exactly. The equipment should be simple and rugged. It should also last untill you have done the mission. Most armies operate to those rules.


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## mrj007

I really enjoy these threads, they are great for a laugh. You can always bet on some old guy totally misunderstanding the point of the original post and turning it into a "in my day we had to walk 15 miles, backwards, in the snow... uh.. on our hands... uh NAKED!!!" Anyway, Specialist, I guess I will be the first person to actually respond to the original topic of conversation (which is not "what is the best Military watch" but can anything beat the Suunto core in terms of design and features) As of right now Suunto has pretty much cornered the market on ABC watches. I personally would just be a lot happier with solar capabilities added to the Core. my main complaint with Suunto wrist top comps in general is the battery life. There would be a use for everything you mentioned, even if you only had to use it one time, why not have it?


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## larsy

I was in the Swiss army as an infantry officer, nothing hardcore like Janne, just basic European woodlands soldiering. 

For what it's worth, here's my opinion on a different aspect of the watch one might want to take into consideration
- the watch should be on a strap, not on a bracelet.

Because a strap can be opened and the watch attached to a peace of gear, and a strap can be cut or ripped off
in an emergency. E.g. when you're stuck on something or when you're injured.

While I also tend to prefer simple 3-handers like the excellent Precista PRS-10, I think I'd still go for a basic G-Shock DW-5600E
even though it needs to have its button pressed to read in the dark, because I think its strap is the best.
Not only can you rip it off in an emergency, or cut it off, moreover you can clean it easily and completely.
A NATO strap cannot be completely cleaned of blood, chemicals or feces (parasites!).


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## cal..45

mrj007 said:


> I really enjoy these threads, they are great for a laugh. You can always bet on some old guy totally misunderstanding the point of the original post and turning it into a "in my day we had to walk 15 miles, backwards, in the snow... uh.. on our hands... uh NAKED!!!" Anyway, Specialist, I guess I will be the first person to actually respond to the original topic of conversation (which is not "what is the best Military watch" but can anything beat the Suunto core in terms of design and features) As of right now Suunto has pretty much cornered the market on ABC watches. I personally would just be a lot happier with solar capabilities added to the Core. my main complaint with Suunto wrist top comps in general is the battery life. There would be a use for everything you mentioned, even if you only had to use it one time, why not have it?


And your statement just shows that you do not have the slightest clue about military watches and even less about the "usefulness" of (crappy) solar nonsense.

cheers


----------



## Janne

larsy said:


> I was in the Swiss army as an infantry officer, nothing hardcore like Janne, just basic European woodlands soldiering.
> 
> For what it's worth, here's my opinion on a different aspect of the watch one might want to take into consideration
> - the watch should be on a strap, not on a bracelet.
> 
> Because a strap can be opened and the watch attached to a peace of gear, and a strap can be cut or ripped off
> in an emergency. E.g. when you're stuck on something or when you're injured.
> 
> While I also tend to prefer simple 3-handers like the excellent Precista PRS-10, I think I'd still go for a basic G-Shock DW-5600E
> even though it needs to have its button pressed to read in the dark, because I think its strap is the best.
> Not only can you rip it off in an emergency, or cut it off, moreover you can clean it easily and completely.
> A NATO strap cannot be completely cleaned of blood, chemicals or feces (parasites!).


You Swiss soldiers are very highly regarded.
I do not think of myself as doing any hardcore stuff. Well trained, motivated etc - yes. The motivation came from aving the Soviets breathing down our necks all the time.......
Most countries have similar specialised units to the one I was in, including Switzerland. I believe even USA, a unit in Alaska?


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## Janne

mrj007 said:


> I really enjoy these threads, they are great for a laugh. You can always bet on some old guy totally misunderstanding the point of the original post and turning it into a "in my day we had to walk 15 miles, backwards, in the snow... uh.. on our hands... uh NAKED!!!" Anyway, Specialist, I guess I will be the first person to actually respond to the original topic of conversation (which is not "what is the best Military watch" but can anything beat the Suunto core in terms of design and features) As of right now Suunto has pretty much cornered the market on ABC watches. I personally would just be a lot happier with solar capabilities added to the Core. my main complaint with Suunto wrist top comps in general is the battery life. There would be a use for everything you mentioned, even if you only had to use it one time, why not have it?


I am 51, hardly "old".

What young unexperienced pups like you fail to understand is that a war/battle situation demands stuff that is simple and works 100% in every concievable situation, and can be operated under extreme duress.
It is one thing to sit in a basecamp and play with your high tech watch, another thing to be dead tired, have crapped your pants and has to perform 100% as a soldier
Not 99%. 
High tech stuff has a much higher risk of failing, and if it fails you need a backup, plus the skill to use it.
If you have faulty equipment and lacking the skill, you have failed.
A country's interest is not if a soldier is safe and happy, but that the mission is done sucessfully.

I do not expect you to understand.


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## hidden by leaves

mrj007 said:


> I really enjoy these threads, they are great for a laugh. You can always bet on some old guy totally misunderstanding the point of the original post and turning it into a "in my day we had to walk 15 miles, backwards, in the snow... uh.. on our hands... uh NAKED!!!" Anyway, Specialist, I guess I will be the first person to actually respond to the original topic of conversation (which is not "what is the best Military watch" but can anything beat the Suunto core in terms of design and features) As of right now Suunto has pretty much cornered the market on ABC watches. I personally would just be a lot happier with solar capabilities added to the Core. my main complaint with Suunto wrist top comps in general is the battery life. There would be a use for everything you mentioned, even if you only had to use it one time, why not have it?


For input on the matter at hand (you should read the thread title) I'll take one guy ("old" or otherwise) with field experience over a hundred armchair quarterbacks all day.

And for the record I'm not in the military, but I'm quite certain that I know what I don't know.


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## mrj007

Janne said:


> I am 51, hardly "old".
> 
> What young unexperienced pups like you fail to understand is that a war/battle situation demands stuff that is simple and works 100% in every concievable situation, and can be operated under extreme duress.
> It is one thing to sit in a basecamp and play with your high tech watch, another thing to be dead tired, have crapped your pants and has to perform 100% as a soldier
> Not 99%.
> High tech stuff has a much higher risk of failing, and if it fails you need a backup, plus the skill to use it.
> If you have faulty equipment and lacking the skill, you have failed.
> A country's interest is not if a soldier is safe and happy, but that the mission is done sucessfully.
> 
> I do not expect you to understand.


sorry, hardly old guy

you're still not getting it... the guy didnt ask "how many of you crapped your pants" he listed a specific watch, and asked if anyone knows of another watch that beats that watch in features... once again, the question was never asked "in your opinion, what is the best military watch" he also didnt ask you to go through each of the features he likes and explain in your opinion why they are all useless... the point is if you cant contribute to the original topic of conversation in the manner of which it was brought up, then find a different thread


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## Dark30

mrj007 said:


> sorry, hardly old guy
> 
> you're still not getting it... the guy didnt ask "how many of you crapped your pants" he listed a specific watch, and asked if anyone knows of another watch that beats that watch in features... once again, the question was never asked "in your opinion, what is the best military watch" he also didnt ask you to go through each of the features he likes and explain in your opinion why they are all useless... the point is if you cant contribute to the original topic of conversation in the manner of which it was brought up, then find a different thread


I think the main difference is one of semantics- i.e. what makes the best "military watch".

The original post was a statement of the features that the author believed would comprise the "Ultimate Military Watch" and was asking about what other watches may have these features. Janne is of the opinion that a military watch needs to tell the time, and any additional features tend to compromise that mission. Not so important if you are behind a desk but a potential disaster if you are on a night ops and your watch got banged at some point and is telling you the wind chill instead of how many more minutes before a coordinated ambush is supposed to happen. Anyway, it appears to me to be more of a clarification of the title than the content.

And yes, I did have to walk to school barefoot in the snow too.

Uphill both ways.


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## mrj007

Dark30 said:


> I think the main difference is one of semantics- i.e. what makes the best "military watch".
> 
> The original post was a statement of the features that the author believed would comprise the "Ultimate Military Watch" and was asking about what other watches may have these features. Janne is of the opinion that a military watch needs to tell the time, and any additional features tend to compromise that mission. Not so important if you are behind a desk but a potential disaster if you are on a night ops and your watch got banged at some point and is telling you the wind chill instead of how many more minutes before a coordinated ambush is supposed to happen. Anyway, it appears to me to be more of a clarification of the title than the content.
> 
> And yes, I did have to walk to school barefoot in the snow too.
> 
> Uphill both ways.


I 100% agree with you. I do agree the title is misleading, but once you read the original post you will know exactly what Specialist was really asking. There are dozens of threads requesting everyone's opinion on what they feel like the best watch for what ever reason, but this isn't one of them. Some people use any excuse to toot their own horn and totally disregard what anyone is trying to ask or get input on. I appreciate anyone who has served in the military, but that doesn't make their opinion absolute. I know many SF soldiers, some in Rangers 2nd Bat, some in SEALS... one of which is in team 6, and who may have helped in the operation that brought Osama bin Laden to justice although he wont confirm or deny it... and almost all of them where G shocks, and even a couple Suunto Cores... WAIT WHAT! yeah, thats right, real soldiers performing real missions that wear a freaking Suunto... so don't sit there and discredit what someone has to say, just cause they don't tell what kind of [email protected]$$ soldier they are or how they crapped their pants.


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## Doug507

I have been witholding comment on this, but here goes. mrj007, you need to learn to stay in your lane and show a little respect for others - some of whom know a thing or two about this subject and also understand how to communicate with each other without resorting to taunts and insults. You've put a grand total of six posts on the forum and at least half of them have been juvinile in tone. Grow up.


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## mrj007

Doug507 said:


> I have been witholding comment on this, but here goes. mrj007, you need to learn to stay in your lane and show a little respect for others - some of whom know a thing or two about this subject and also understand how to communicate with each other without resorting to taunts and insults. You've put a grand total of six posts on the forum and at least half of them have been juvinile in tone. Grow up.


you need to give your advice to others on this thread... "respecting others" is not hijacking a thread and discrediting everything people say just cause it isn't your own opinion, and then backing that opinion up with inflated war stories that nobody cares about... to me, that is an insult to the original poster and other real soldiers


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## Janne

mrj007 said:


> you need to give your advice to others on this thread... "respecting others" is not hijacking a thread and discrediting everything people say just cause it isn't your own opinion, and then backing that opinion up with inflated war stories that nobody cares about... to me, that is an insult to the original poster and other real soldiers


I think a bigger insult is not to read the OP' first post fully. If you can concentrate long enough, you will read at the end that he has found a watch that he thinks is the Ultimate Military Watch, the Suunto Black. 
I disagree, hence my posts.

My stories are not inflated, and they are not any War stories. I recommend you do a little bit research about the last 20 years of the Cold War, with Scandinavia as a focus.
You seem to be a bit ignorant in that aspect

Please remember, without us guys ( all serving mil people in NATO or countries supporting NATO indirectly, you and your family, would not be able to do what you are doing now.


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## andy_s

mrj007 said:


> you need to give your advice to others on this thread... "respecting others" is not hijacking a thread and discrediting everything people say just cause it isn't your own opinion, and then backing that opinion up with inflated war stories that nobody cares about... to me, that is an insult to the original poster and other real soldiers


I think Doug is right, you maybe need to read back a bit to see.

I don't think the thread was hijacked, everyones got an opinion and that's Jannes -do you only allow sycophantic comments or those that don't offer alternate views?

Who's to say if Janne is right or talking through his (presumably sh*tty) ar*e? - you may or may not agree with it, but I think his point of view is a valid one to at last consider. The thread is drifting off topic now as we're getting embroiled in a spat, so it's ironic, don't you think, to use that as a criticism of Jannes comments.

Your use of the phrasing 'inflated war stories' frankly borders on the insulting - it's evident you have no idea whether or not they are inflated, yet you sling the mud hoping to discredit the author? 'Nobody really cares about' - again, you have no basis for this comment - have you conducted a poll we aren't aware of? Why you
would consider it wrong for him to 'insult real soldiers' when you do exactly that is again slightly puzzling, not to mention inconsistent.

I'm sure you 'know' lots of special forces soldiers, and it's well known the bulk (like 'normal' soldiers) choose G-Shocks and Suuntos, they are good choices, but they aren't the only choice, as Janne tried to explain.

Anyway, taking into account your abusive style of authorship and slight grasp on how watch fora generally operate, allied to your dogmatic and blinkered viewpoint and your sightly juvenile tone, I can only conclude that you're immature and so will cut you some slack, knowing that one day, like us all, you will grow up.

But maybe my opinion's also worthless, as I'm an old soldier myself...


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## mrj007

Janne said:


> I think a bigger insult is not to read the OP' first post fully. If you can concentrate long enough, you will read at the end that he has found a watch that he thinks is the Ultimate Military Watch, the Suunto Black.
> I disagree, hence my posts.
> 
> My stories are not inflated, and they are not any War stories. I recommend you do a little bit research about the last 20 years of the Cold War, with Scandinavia as a focus.
> You seem to be a bit ignorant in that aspect
> 
> Please remember, without us guys ( all serving mil people in NATO or countries supporting NATO indirectly, you and your family, would not be able to do what you are doing now.


you're absolutely right, i went back and read the OP again and totally misunderstood... reading comprehension was never my strong point... see what i thought he was asking was "i think Sunnto is the best military watch, but do you know of any other watches that offer more features such as these? (lists features he likes)..." but what he was actually saying was... "can any super soldiers that fought in the cold war tell me how all watches other than 3 hand watches are crap and provide insight as to why i shouldnt even bother with anything else, oh and while you are at it, go ahead and walk through each of the features that i like in a watch and tell me how ridiculous each of them are"

I guess the fact that you offended the original poster has no affect to you as long as you get to let everyone know how awesome you are. I'm just not impressed, I think the more a guy talks about how hard core he is the more he is full of it... You want to impress anyone, then be a man and admit you misunderstood the topic based on the misleading title, and apologize for turning what should have been an informative post to anyone else who enjoys ABC watches into a big debate about old school vs new tech


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## O2AFAC67

Forum rule #2...

*2. Members will be kind and courteous, and respectful to other members and the moderators. No direct or indirect personal attacks or insults of any kind will be allowed. Posts which antagonize, belittle or humiliate other members and/or the moderators will not be tolerated, nor will racism, sexism, bigotry or foul language.

Members who have personal issues with other members and moderators must resolve their differences outside the forum. Watchuseek policy is not to discuss issues with other forums.
*

Any further argumentative posts will be reported and most likely deleted by the mod team. Previous posts violating the rule will also most likely be deleted. This thread may also be closed if further rules violations are noted.


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