# Why are Chinese automatic watches so cheap? And could they be Quartz imitating Mechanical movement?



## aussielondon (Sep 10, 2014)

Mechanical watches are supposedly more costly to manufacture than Quartz, yet I got this watch online (I won't advertise as I am not sure that allowed), but it cost about £12 (about $20) and it seems to work fine, and I can see the front and back in skeleton style, so I can see the rotorswing when i move the watch when holding in my hand, and also when wearing it I can see the balance wheel and 1 of the cogs moving clearly.

As a side question, would it be possible for this to actually be quartz powered but somehow the Chinese have faked it to look mechanical?
(If they can fake making eggs, then they can probably fake anything lol)


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## mew88 (Jun 1, 2010)

Mechanical movements aren't as expensive to make as the industry makes it to be. You could pick up a chinese mechanical movement for under $20.

But in a £12 watch, you are probably getting a shoddily constructed movement from the reject bin though.


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## joepac (Jun 29, 2011)

I'm no expert, (not quite a WIS just yet) Only way to fake the sweep of a mechanical that I can think of is something like a Bulova precisionist type movement and with a see through back, you would see the battery. Also that type of quartz would be more expensive I would think.


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## Ace McLoud (Jun 28, 2013)

Simple answer: Cheap(er) labour, economies of scale and no need for any R&D (it was all done decades ago).

The movement you have is most likely the Tonji, or Chinese National movement. A sweeping quartz would be even more expensive to produce. If you're in doubt, pop off the back of the watch, it should look something like this:










Mine is accurate within 30 seconds a day, so not exactly junk.


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## Sullus (Aug 5, 2014)

No need to pass off a quartz as a mechanical. As said above, mechanical movements aren't as expensive as you might think. Also, what's the benefit in faking a mechanical with quartz? The only people who'd care enough would be WIS's, and we're an incredibly small slice of the population of watch consumers.


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## aussielondon (Sep 10, 2014)

Ok first off, thanks for the replies 
Second is what is a "WIS"?

Well my watch has both clear front and back so I can see the internals pretty ok as not much is obstructed, so I can see the balance wheel spinning (well I assume that is what it is) and also one cog that moves too, and th watch when held near my ear makes a sound like the opening ticking to the show "60 minutes" which is cool.

If this is indeed Chinese National movement then I think that's cool, as it sounds cool and I got the watch cheap and it's cool to know that it's the movement that regular Chinese people use.

I have an Omega Seamaster 2531.80.00 that my dad gave to me as a gift, but I am afraid to wear it in London (England) as I live in a bad area, and also we can't carry guns here (it's not a free country like the USA is) so if I was held up I couldn't defend myself or the watch.


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## RichieP (Aug 26, 2010)

aussielondon said:


> Ok first off, thanks for the replies
> Second is what is a "WIS"?
> 
> Well my watch has both clear front and back so I can see the internals pretty ok as not much is obstructed, so I can see the balance wheel spinning (well I assume that is what it is) and also one cog that moves too, and th watch when held near my ear makes a sound like the opening ticking to the show "60 minutes" which is cool.
> ...


WIS = Watch Idiot Savant. It's us making fun of ourselves for obsessing over such unimportant toys.
Also, you probably don't need to worry about muggers targeting you for an Omega (or Blancpain, or Patek, etc). They don't know what it is. Extremely few people would recognize any luxury brand other than Rolex, and those who would, only know Tag, Breitling and Movado. Just do not, DO NOT, wear your $400 Apple watch in a bad neighborhood. That would be asking for trouble. Save that for the posh part of town and put on a $10,000 Glashutte Original to be safe in the slums.:-d


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## aussielondon (Sep 10, 2014)

RichieP said:


> WIS = Watch Idiot Savant. It's us making fun of ourselves for obsessing over such unimportant toys.
> Also, you probably don't need to worry about muggers targeting you for an Omega (or Blancpain, or Patek, etc). They don't know what it is. Extremely few people would recognize any luxury brand other than Rolex, and those who would, only know Tag, Breitling and Movado. Just do not, DO NOT, wear your $400 Apple watch in a bad neighborhood. That would be asking for trouble. Save that for the posh part of town and put on a $10,000 Glashutte Original to be safe in the slums.:-d


I guess I assume that the general population know what I know (and people like me, like you guys on this forum)... it never occurred to me that the general population wouldn't recognise an Omega Seamaster, as to me that's an expensive watch, and I know it is as I have seen the prices it goes for.
But the watch was used in the James Bond 007 movies, so shouldn't people know what a Seamaster looks like with a Blue Bezel?

Also how are mechanical watches unimportant?
They are the only thing men have as adornments.... wheras women get ........, all forms of jewelery (that are usually bought by men lol) and all that jazz.
Us men get mechanical works of art on our wrists with great history behind them.


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## Casertano69 (Sep 22, 2012)

how many hours of charge has your watch(real power reserve)?usually these watches with cheap Chinese movements(very cheap) has a charge of few hours(6-8 hours usually)even if they are worn for a full day...


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## aussielondon (Sep 10, 2014)

Casertano69 said:


> how many hours of charge has your watch(real power reserve)?usually these watches with cheap Chinese movements(very cheap) has a charge of few hours(6-8 hours usually)even if they are worn for a full day...


Mine had been going ok for 2 days now and I been wearing it, also it's lost no time compared to my computer clock!
I am kind of stunned about this.
Although I have handwound a little when bored, but hand-winding a watch isn't rocket science to be fair.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

If it can be wound by hand, then it's not a "fake quartz".

A quartz movement consists of a tiny quartz occilator sealed in a vaccuum tube, connected to a microchip which steps down the 32,768 Hz signal to 1 Hz to drive a stepper motor which powers the second hand, and the other hands are driven from that. Power is supplied by a battery.

By contrast, your mechanical movement has a mainspring driving the hands, controlled by the swing of the balance wheel occilating at 3 Hz (but allowing the hands to advance with each swing thus making it 6 beats per second). You might be able to identify those parts by looking at the watch if it's got a clear back.


By the way, I doubt that the people who "fake making eggs" (whatever that means) know much about manufacturing watches. ;-)


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## InsaneMainframe (Oct 6, 2013)

Chascomm said:


> By the way, I doubt that the people who "fake making eggs" (whatever that means) know much about manufacturing watches. ;-)


Believe it or not (I didn't until I got one in a cheap hotel) but there are some chinese individuals? companies? who are? were? able to fake boiled eggs!

I thought it was a myth and it couldn't be done, also it would be more expensive to fake them compared to boil real eggs... but unfortunately I was proven wrong. Luckily we (me and one of our chinese engineers) found out before eating it.

Romain


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## outatim3 (Sep 8, 2014)

I'd love to know that two. I think I spent a total of 50-60 on 4 watches in the last 2 weeks. Maybe Im getting the wrong stuff from China/Hong Kong.


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## xingfenzhen (Aug 20, 2011)

InsaneMainframe said:


> Believe it or not (I didn't until I got one in a cheap hotel) but there are some chinese individuals? companies? who are? were? able to fake boiled eggs!
> 
> I thought it was a myth and it couldn't be done, also it would be more expensive to fake them compared to boil real eggs... but unfortunately I was proven wrong. Luckily we (me and one of our chinese engineers) found out before eating it.
> 
> Romain







Well, most of the "fake egg" we "find" in the market are actually rotten egg that's preserved in chemicals so it does not appear rotten when sold. (a separate, but different problem.) However, to make a completely artificial egg, it's difficult and would cost more than the egg itself. Most of popular video for fake egg create from the fake egg media bliz a few years ago would not create believable eggs.

A watch analogy would be, while is not cost effective to fake a mechanical watch with quatz, but you can always use a reject movement to create a watch that otherwise wouldn't be created. (or recycle a old tongji movenment, but make a franken vcm)


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## nishant_ucms_doc (Jun 16, 2014)

excuse my ignorance but would not a mechanical watch stop after, say 40-50 hours of not wearing it (that's max power reserve in affordable watches , right).
And a quartz watch should never stop till the battery runs out (should be atleast a year i guess.

So what's the problem?


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

xingfenzhen said:


> Well, most of the "fake egg" we "find" in the market are actually rotten egg that's preserved in chemicals so it does not appear rotten when sold. (a separate, but different problem.) However, to make a completely artificial egg, it's difficult and would cost more than the egg itself. Most of popular video for fake egg create from the fake egg media bliz a few years ago would not create believable eggs.


i can't believe that we started talking about the faking of mechanical watches with quartz movements and so quickly moved through the faking of real eggs all the way to the faking of fake eggs :-s


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## Ace McLoud (Jun 28, 2013)

Chascomm said:


> i can't believe that we started talking about the faking of mechanical watches with quartz movements and so quickly moved through the faking of real eggs all the way to the faking of fake eggs :-s


Is the discussion of fake eggs permitted on Watchuseek?


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Ace McLoud said:


> Is the discussion of fake eggs permitted on Watchuseek?


It's OK. I think we've established that they're not _real_ fake eggs.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Returning to the original question...

I just remembered that there are indeed fairly inexpensive watches that combine the apppearance of a functioning mechanical movement with the accuracy of a quartz movement. But these consist of two movements within the one case. The mechanically-powered part drives the second hand only, and a small generic quartz movement embedded in the main plate of the mechanical movement drives the hour and minute hand. A couple of brands have been seen on this forum in recent years. The watch appears entirely mechanical from any angle unless dismantled. However such a watch containing two complete movements will have the component value of roughly two watches, and therefore will only be cheaper than a simple mechanical watch if sold on clearance.

If in fact you got one of these hybrid watches for 12 quid then you've got a bargain (so long as you don't need to change the battery any time soon).


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## Totoro66 (Oct 26, 2013)

mew88 said:


> Mechanical movements aren't as expensive to make as the industry makes it to be. You could pick up a chinese mechanical movement for under $20.
> 
> But in a £12 watch, you are probably getting a shoddily constructed movement from the reject bin though.


I bought my daughter a $12 skeleton watch that was accurate to within 2 seconds per day. Sure enough, she lost it after a few weeks, but that was to be expected.


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## mobi (Aug 27, 2014)

Chinese watches are not cheap. Their price is right.

It is the Swiss watches which are too expensive


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Ace McLoud said:


> Simple answer: Cheap(er) labour, economies of scale and no need for any R&D (it was all done decades ago).


Two out of those three also apply to the Swiss....

It is not only the labor, but the _labor rate_, which includes all the recurring costs, such as rent on the buildings, rent of equipment, power, water, insurance, taxes, etc....

(Oh, and Swiss movements, at least the mass produced ones, don't cost that much. Ten years ago you could pick up a single Elabore Grade 2892A2 for about $75 retail, if bought in volume, the price was probablyaround $40 each. The average cost of labor has not skyrocketed in Switzerland.)


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## Russell Timmerman (Oct 26, 2014)

You pay a huge premium for the word "Swiss" on your watch. It's just pure brand markup (read raw profit) for Swiss watch brands.


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## nishant_ucms_doc (Jun 16, 2014)

I bought a PO homage from Alpha, 100$ shipped.
Good bracelet with solid end links
Accurate to less than 5 sec a day ,hackable movmt.

Value for money.........you will spend 1000$ on. Swiss watch to get all that...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## aussielondon (Sep 10, 2014)

mobi said:


> Chinese watches are not cheap. Their price is right.
> 
> It is the Swiss watches which are too expensive


Sounds about right to me.
I read that Swiss watches are priced high artificially, and this seems wrong to me.
If it costs more to make from R&D etc then for sure it should cost more, but some brands do really push the prices up artificially and that's what pushes me away from Swiss watches.
After all even the best Swiss mechanical (incl Automatic as they are mechanical anyway) is not as accurate as the cheapest quartz, so then I really don't care of my cheap Chinese mechanical is a little less accurate even more, as long as its only a couple mins a day then I really don't see the problem, as if you really need proper timekeeping to the millisecond then get Quartz or an atomic clock lol.

Mechanical watches are art.
I just took this photo of the watch on my wrist and I think it looks good... but does anyone know what this was inspired by, as the screwed bezel is not something ive seen before with it's screws effect?
(Btw, I have it on a full black NATO strap but it's not really visible in this photo from this angle and distance from the lens.)


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## shiner2348 (Feb 20, 2014)

Hi There Guy
I;ve had 3 AK Homme Auto Mechanical for 18 months with day date Month all work
only 24 hr reserve not water proof keep good time when on wrist average price about $au-22-00 (Australian)
still going.And they look ok what more do you want.spend some dough f you want all the bells and whistles


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## tobytobes (Jul 17, 2011)

well the per head employee costs in Switzerland r the highest in the world. well over 10000 a month for a watch maker. and re Swiss franc went of the scale about four years ago adding 30 percent into everything.


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