# Someone opened up a 318 and found this:



## gerrylb (Mar 5, 2008)

This recent post has Panerai owners on my local forum buzzing.
Paneristi Public Forum: The mysterious PAM318


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

Holy [email protected]#$% Batman.

I gotta say, remarkable and disappointing at the same time.

The words....fleece, rip off, pulling a fast one, con, been had come to mind. An offical from Richemont needs to step in here for comment, I'm amazed the Panerai would have such low grade movements in their inventory.


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## houndoggie (Nov 3, 2008)

For shame, panerai, for shame.


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## primerak (Sep 1, 2010)

They better be careful at this rate amazon and costco will drop them.....


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## stilo (Aug 11, 2009)

Makes me wonder what the 6497 in my Zero looks like!


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## avatar1 (Sep 15, 2008)

StiloTime said:


> Makes me wonder what the 6497 in my Zero looks like!


Better. By far, but in a minimalistic way.


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## stilo (Aug 11, 2009)

avatar1 said:


> Better. By far, but in a minimalistic way.


How can I know for sure? With an solid case back, there's no way of telling for sure.

I have to be honest, seeing this thread and the whole Amazon/Costco now selling Panerai, I'm starting to doubt Panerai's exclusiveness.


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## iim7v7im7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Did anyone find it ironic that they chose the Brooklyn Bridge for this limited edition?



Bob



gerrylb said:


> This recent post has Panerai owners on my local forum buzzing.
> Paneristi Public Forum: The mysterious PAM318


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

StiloTime said:


> How can I know for sure? With an solid case back, there's no way of telling for sure.


You unscrew the case back



StiloTime said:


> I have to be honest, seeing this thread and the whole Amazon/Costco now selling Panerai, I'm starting to doubt Panerai's exclusiveness.


Hold on. This was a run of 150 watches out of how many Panerai has made? And the Amazon/Costco issue applies to plenty of other luxury brands where some distributor has gotten hold of a limited supply of watches. They are not authorizing the sale of Panerai at Costco. So take a step back. It's all ok.


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

I am surprised and disappointed (if this is indeed true), but all of the reactionary responses I'm reading don't make any sense to me. People are assuming that OP's intention was to rip people off, scam them, whatever. Really? If a pretty decorated movement cost an extra $100 per watch, then OP perpetrated this wicked scam for a total of $15,000 extra? Really? I just find that tough to believe. I don't have any idea what the explanation might be, and it's disappointing whatever it is, but a sinister plot doesn't quite add up.


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## maia (Jun 19, 2007)

Maybe I didn't get the whole picture (haven't read all the posts), but I seriously doubt Panerai would release something with a base ETA 6497-2. It's not even signed.
If I had to guess, I would say whoever sold the watch (or some middle-man) took the movement from the Panerai and slapped a base ETA on it (easy peasy job). Since it's a solid caseback, it would probably take years before the owner realised it had a bogus movement (if the owner took it in for service - some don't).
In all likeliness, there's some watch out there (ETA/Unitas base) with the Panerai movement on it.
If indeed Panerai let something like this through (which I highly doubt), oh well...o|


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## houndoggie (Nov 3, 2008)

maia said:


> Maybe I didn't get the whole picture (haven't read all the posts), but I seriously doubt Panerai would release something with a base ETA 6497-2. It's not even signed.
> If I had to guess, I would say whoever sold the watch (or some middle-man) took the movement from the Panerai and slapped a base ETA on it (easy peasy job). Since it's a solid caseback, it would probably take years before the owner realised it had a bogus movement (if the owner took it in for service - some don't).
> In all likeliness, there's some watch out there (ETA/Unitas base) with the Panerai movement on it.
> If indeed Panerai let something like this through (which I highly doubt), oh well...o|


It is true. That is what Officine panerai puts in the 318. A $150 bone stock eta 6497. On a $4500 watch.


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## Redsnake (Sep 12, 2007)

Makes me want to open up the back of my LE 417 Edition... I'd be VERY upset if what resided inside was anything similar to what the original post showed in the 318!!

I tend to think someone swapped the Pam movement for a base movement. I do not know. I may have to pull the back of mine now and take a peak... hmmm.


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

Redsnake said:


> Makes me want to open up the back of my LE 417 Edition... I'd be VERY upset if what resided inside was anything similar to what the original post showed in the 318!!
> 
> I tend to think someone swapped the Pam movement for a base movement. I do not know. I may have to pull the back of mine now and take a peak... hmmm.


If you're worried, then I think you should. But I believe it's already been done and the other boutique editions like the 417 and 390 have the usual pretty movements. This seems to be isolated to the 318. No need for everyone to panic.


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## stilo (Aug 11, 2009)

Let's assume that Panerai did in fact put a base 6497 movement in the 318, then I'd wonder if the guy in the risti thread was right, in that maybe these will be sought after pieces considering the limited 150 of them in circulation and the, gulp, base 6497 movement inside. It'll be interesting to see what the value of these things will be in near future if any appear in the used market.


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## rebel_1 (May 16, 2010)

If indeed this movement was intentionally placed in this watch????? From the "offsite" thread, there seemed to be at least (7) other identical wathces with the same factory movement. 

Plain & simple, if this is what OP is willing to do despite the overwhelming customer base & focus on quality, I not only would not buy a PAM without a display case, I also want to look at all of my watches.


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## primerak (Sep 1, 2010)

StiloTime said:


> Let's assume that Panerai did in fact put a base 6497 movement in the 318, then I'd wonder if the guy in the risti thread was right, in that maybe these will be sought after pieces considering the limited 150 of them in circulation and the, gulp, base 6497 movement inside. It'll be interesting to see what the value of these things will be in near future if any appear in the used market.


I think there was a hint of humor/sarcasm when he mentioned it. It is not a uniquely high finished oddity which can possibly gain in value. If Panerai slapped in 50 low end Chinese/Jap movements solid case back for an Asian L.E. would it also make it more valuable over time - I think not. In the end I think the reaction of the unaware owners and potential admirers says it all.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Sadly, a perfect example of something I thankfully didn't learn the hard way.

With watches, you simply don't get what you pay for. Depending on the model, yes; sometimes you get more. Other times, less. And that can mean a whole lot less.

Is there any chance at all that the watch that was opened up is simply a really good fake?


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## socalbreeze (Feb 9, 2009)

While I do think it is quite disappointing that OP slap an undecorated movement in there. But they did announce that the movement is a "special" caliber that will not be COSC certified. Is it a deal breaker? No, because with luxury watches we never get what we pay for. I am one of 150 owner of a LE Panerai. What more can I ask for?


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## gerrylb (Mar 5, 2008)

socalbreeze said:


> I am one of 150 owner of a LE Panerai. What more can I ask for?


The movement that was actually advertised by the company and which isn't the same unrefined basic stock movement found in boutique watches that cost a twentieth of what you paid for your watch?


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## socalbreeze (Feb 9, 2009)

gerrylb said:


> The movement that was actually advertised by the company and which isn't the same unrefined basic stock movement found in boutique watches that cost a twentieth of what you paid for your watch?


So by decorating the ETA it will make the watch worth that much more? Read my whole post, since when did buying a 6k watch with a decorated ETA movement equals what is actually worth? Is it worth it to buy a 312 EVEN if its an in house movement? If bang for the buck is what you are looking for, goto Walmart and buy a 10 dollar Casio.


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## gerrylb (Mar 5, 2008)

^^^If you're happy with what you have than good for you! But I, on the other hand,would be major league pissed-off to find out that my $5,000 watch contained a $50 movement. More than that, I'd be incensed that the company advertised it as using the Caliber OP XXIX.

No one buys a luxury item with expectations of "bang for buck," but one does and should have a right to expect decent quality when he or she pays a premium for a high-end brand. The movement in the 318 isn't just stock, it's a low-end, low-beat engine without so much as Incabloc shock protection. The cheapest Swatch group automatic offering has a better movement.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

socalbreeze said:


> If bang for the buck is what you are looking for, goto Walmart and buy a 10 dollar Casio.


You were making a couple of excellent points until that last sentence . . . And not just because even Wal-Mart doesn't sell Casio watches for that cheap.


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## socalbreeze (Feb 9, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> You were making a couple of excellent points until that last sentence . . . And not just because even Wal-Mart doesn't sell Casio watches for that cheap.


LOL I was being sarcastic...


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

socalbreeze said:


> LOL I was being sarcastic...


My apologizes. Sometimes it's hard to convey mood on an internet forum. I honestly thought you were angry. My mistake.


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## NYWatchFan (Aug 30, 2010)

Oh my god. i just stumbled on this thread. I would demand a refund or go out on a all out twitter/facebook campaign with other 318 owners.

this is like a rolex buyer opening to find an eta 2824 base movement. 

and Panerai has humans inspecting and testing watches, so someone saw all these watches get assembled. 

i am in shock.

I have seen shopnbc brands have more decorated movements. there is no denying if any 318 owner saw the movement prior to buying not 1 would have sold for anywhere near retail.


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## typericey (Sep 21, 2011)

I am still in denial. I'm hoping this is just a hoax, or some sort of black propaganda to a brand that's skyrocketing in popularity in the last decade. I'm reserving my judgement to Panerai until they come out with an official statement, and I hope they do.


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

It could have been worse.......a tiny quartz movement stuck to the back of the dial!

For OP to even label the movement with an OP designation is misleading, it is a bog standard, low grade 100% untouched ETA movement. There is no justification for what is inside these 318s. It is bad enough OP would choose to put these movements into their products, worse that they cover it up with some BS XXIX.

What do the Panerai SOPROD non COSC 6497 cost? At least $1000 to Joe public and what is in those 318s? $150 or less for that grade.

318 would be more accurately called a franken Panerai.

Edited to add

$164 with hammered finish and incabloc, 318 is completely unfinished stamped plates with novadiac so therefore should run less than $164 retail.

http://www.ofrei.com/page_183.html


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

OP is offering to replace the movement for 318 owners.


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## NYWatchFan (Aug 30, 2010)

How did you find this info?

The last I saw some customers contacted the ny boutique.
Paneristi Public Forum: Panerai NY has already responded


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

NYWatchFan said:


> How did you find this info?
> 
> The last I saw some customers contacted the ny boutique.
> Paneristi Public Forum: Panerai NY has already responded


Posted by Paddy on Paneristi this am, from the desk of Sig. Bonati:
Anyone who choses to can have their movement switched out on the 318. This will be done free of charge via the LA and NY boutiques only, but will exclude transportation costs and insurances. Please note the movement currently supplied is not inferior nor implied as such. The change order is purely for those who wish to take advantage of this option and offer. Paneristi Public Forum: Official update on the 318 from the desk of Sig. Bonati............


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## NYWatchFan (Aug 30, 2010)

jacksonian said:


> Posted by Paddy on Paneristi this am, from the desk of Sig. Bonati:
> Anyone who choses to can have their movement switched out on the 318. This will be done free of charge via the LA and NY boutiques only, but will exclude transportation costs and insurances. Please note the movement currently supplied is not inferior nor implied as such. The change order is purely for those who wish to take advantage of this option and offer. Paneristi Public Forum: Official update on the 318 from the desk of Sig. Bonati............


I guess that is better than nothing. but the CEO claiming this wasn't a mistake is dubious. And for customers to pay for shipping and handling when it wasn't the customer's mistake, also dubious.

But much better than nothing.


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

NYWatchFan said:


> I guess that is better than nothing. but the CEO claiming this wasn't a mistake is dubious. And for customers to pay for shipping and handling when it wasn't the customer's mistake, also dubious.
> 
> But much better than nothing.


I'm not sure what you're reading. He didn't say this wasn't a mistake. He said it wasn't an inferior movement, that's all. And replacing the movement free of charge is more than many companies would do. And as for shipping and handling? These watches are 3 years old. If I sent in a 3 year old watch for service, I'd certainly be paying for shipping and handling. And if you open the door for S&H, then you have guys saying, "I want my watch overnighted FedEx before 9am and I want it back in my hands by the next day at 9am because this was their mistake!"

Seriously people, OP stepped up to the plate and is fixing the problem. Not one of the people I've seen on any of these forums complaining about stuff like this is an actual owner of a 318. The couple of owners who have posted (including Sidekick of all people) have been completely reasonable. If you bought a $4500 watch and you're upset about paying $50 for a new movement after 3 years of your watch working perfectly fine, well, I can't help you.

If you think that how they're handling this issue is dubious, then you should just move on and find another watch brand that can live up to your expectations. I'm a Panerai collector and I'm completely satisfied with how they're handling the issue.


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## NYWatchFan (Aug 30, 2010)

jacksonian said:


> I'm not sure what you're reading. He didn't say this wasn't a mistake. He said it wasn't an inferior movement, that's all. And replacing the movement free of charge is more than many companies would do. And as for shipping and handling? These watches are 3 years old. If I sent in a 3 year old watch for service, I'd certainly be paying for shipping and handling. And if you open the door for S&H, then you have guys saying, "I want my watch overnighted FedEx before 9am and I want it back in my hands by the next day at 9am because this was their mistake!"
> 
> Seriously people, OP stepped up to the plate and is fixing the problem. Not one of the people I've seen on any of these forums complaining about stuff like this is an actual owner of a 318. The couple of owners who have posted (including Sidekick of all people) have been completely reasonable. If you bought a $4500 watch and you're upset about paying $50 for a new movement after 3 years of your watch working perfectly fine, well, I can't help you.
> 
> If you think that how they're handling this issue is dubious, then you should just move on and find another watch brand that can live up to your expectations. I'm a Panerai collector and I'm completely satisfied with how they're handling the issue.


Not sure why you are taking this personally. as i said this is better than nothing. but for a luxury brand this shouldnt have happened in the 1st place. i dont have a 318. but i am thinking of buying my 1st panerai as i didnt love my omega po or rolex offering. The ceo saying the movement isnt inferior doesnt make the movement less inferior. this is not synonymous with a watch servicing or warranty work. that movement is worth no more than $200 at best.

But i am very happy for 318 owners as they are doing the right thing. Well the only thing they can possibly do to save face.


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

NYWatchFan said:


> Not sure why you are taking this personally. as i said this is better than nothing. but for a luxury brand this shouldnt have happened in the 1st place. i dont have a 318. but i am thinking of buying my 1st panerai as i didnt love my omega po or rolex offering. The ceo saying the movement isnt inferior doesnt make the movement less inferior. this is not synonymous with a watch servicing or warranty work. that movement is worth no more than $200 at best.


I'm not taking anything personally. I simply disagree with you. And I stand by my statement that if this resolution is unsatisfactory to you, then I suggest you move on to another brand since you likely won't be happy with Panerai. Even the usual decorated movements that Panerai uses in watches like the Zero and 111 don't cost much more than that. So we're not talking about replacing a $200 movement with a $2,000 movement. And if my 3 year old watch needs anything, then yes, I'm paying for shipping on it. It's not a brand new watch.

Omega and Rolex also make great watches. So clearly your standards are high. I'm simply saying that based on your comments, it's unlikely that Panerai is going to meet your standards. I would suggest you start looking at Patek Philippe, A. Lange & Sohne, or Vacheron Constantin.


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## NYWatchFan (Aug 30, 2010)

jacksonian said:


> I simply disagree with you. And I stand by my statement that if this resolution is unsatisfactory to you, then I suggest you move on to another brand since you likely won't be happy with Panerai.


that sounds to me like 'we dont need you in the panerai club'.

oh well.


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## stilo (Aug 11, 2009)

jacksonian said:


> Posted by Paddy on Paneristi this am, from the desk of Sig. Bonati:
> Anyone who choses to can have their movement switched out on the 318. This will be done free of charge via the LA and NY boutiques only, but will exclude transportation costs and insurances. Please note the movement currently supplied is not inferior nor implied as such. The change order is purely for those who wish to take advantage of this option and offer. Paneristi Public Forum: Official update on the 318 from the desk of Sig. Bonati............


This statement implies that Panerai knew about the sub standard movement before installation and went ahead and installed them anyways. This is not a good thing to have done, especially to a loyal fanbase that Panerai has. Fact is, not many people would walk into a boutique and buy the 318 as their first Panerai. The 150 that bought them were no doubt return customers who wanted a "special" watch in their Panerai collection. Sorry to say, but there is nothing special about putting a sub standard movement in a special edition and calling it an OP XXIX, as if to fool the fanbase into thinking there was something special about it. Not cool, not cool at all..


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

NYWatchFan said:


> that sounds to me like 'we dont need you in the panerai club'.
> 
> oh well.


That might be what you heard, but it's not what I said. Why would I encourage you to buy a Panerai if it's pretty clear based on your statements and your experience that you have a higher standard for quality and in this case their response to a problem?

I see people do this all the time. They post over and over about how a brand/company (car, watch, whatever) doesn't seem to be up to their standards, but they go ahead and buy it anyway and then say, "Ah, I KNEW it, this doesn't live up to my standards."

I'm just trying to save you some time and hassle. If you didn't love your Rolex or Omega offerings, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to love a Panerai offering. They're all great companies that make great watches.


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

StiloTime said:


> This statement implies that Panerai knew about the sub standard movement before installation and went ahead and installed them anyways. This is not a good thing to have done, especially to a loyal fanbase that Panerai has. Fact is, not many people would walk into a boutique and buy the 318 as their first Panerai. The 150 that bought them were no doubt return customers who wanted a "special" watch in their Panerai collection. Sorry to say, but there is nothing special about putting a sub standard movement in a special edition and calling it an OP XXIX, as if to fool the fanbase into thinking there was something special about it. Not cool, not cool at all..


No, you inferred that. That statement doesn't imply that. That fact that they're replacing the movement at all implies that a mistake was made. I'm going to ask people one more time. Truly, do you think that Panerai did this to fool people, to dupe them, to scam them, to rip them off, whatever? Seriously? If you were in charge of a company that made that much money, you'd say, "Hey, let's squeeze these suckers for an extra $200 a pop and use a cheap movement, the'll never know!" Really? You'd risk your whole company's reputation to make an extra $30,000 total? That's the price of a billboard in Time's Square for the afternoon. Clearly someone made a mistake. And now they're fixing it.


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## NYWatchFan (Aug 30, 2010)

jacksonian said:


> That might be what you heard, but it's not what I said. Why would I encourage you to buy a Panerai if it's pretty clear based on your statements and your experience that you have a higher standard for quality and in this case their response to a problem?
> 
> I see people do this all the time. They post over and over about how a brand/company (car, watch, whatever) doesn't seem to be up to their standards, but they go ahead and buy it anyway and then say, "Ah, I KNEW it, this doesn't live up to my standards."
> 
> I'm just trying to save you some time and hassle. If you didn't love your Rolex or Omega offerings, then it's highly unlikely that you're going to love a Panerai offering. They're all great companies that make great watches.


Ok, hard to gauge intent on a forum so thanks for clarifying. And please note i am not some troll going on a brand hunt.

I guess i will have to just go to the boutique to check some out. As for Rolex, i was shocked to see the quality go down on their cases vs older ones. Nothing wrong with the PO Omega. I still like the new PO with titanium case and ceramic bezel in blue bezel/blue dial.

I do still want the 351 or the 320.


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

NYWatchFan said:


> Ok, hard to gauge intent on a forum so thanks for clarifying. And please note i am not some troll going on a brand hunt.
> 
> I guess i will have to just go to the boutique to check some out. As for Rolex, i was shocked to see the quality go down on their cases vs older ones. Nothing wrong with the PO Omega. I still like the new PO with titanium case and ceramic bezel in blue bezel/blue dial.
> 
> I do still want the 351 or the 320.


No worries. I think you should absolutely go to the boutique and check them out. Everyone has different things they're looking for and different standards. Don't buy one until you've had the chance to fully inspect it and make sure you will be satisfied. I'm not a Rolex man so I don't know how their quality may have changed. I do have a buddy who's a big AP guy and he says there's no contest between AP and Panerai, that his AP's finishing is far superior. I don't doubt that, although most of his APs cost a lot more than our Panerai so I would hope they are.

I think you should take all the information about a brand into context when making your decision. That's why I said that if you thought OP's response to this was unsatisfactory, then you should really think twice about buying one. I find it more than satisfactory for me.


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## austinnh (May 25, 2009)

jacksonian said:


> I would suggest you start looking at Patek Philippe, A. Lange & Sohne, or Vacheron Constantin.


Or you could just go with any number of lower-end luxury brand that will advertise their watches honestly...

EDIT: I should explain myself. I am really pleased with the fast, generous response by OP! They've done the right thing, it seems. I'm just making the point that you don't have to go PP, ALS, or VC to get honest advertising.


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## jacksonian (Feb 19, 2008)

austinnh said:


> Or you could just go with any number of lower-end luxury brand that will advertise their watches honestly...


Nice underhand. If you think this is a pervasive problem with Panerai rather than a mistake on 150 watches out of the thousands they produce, then yep you should definitely be on another board rather than here posting about Panerai.


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## austinnh (May 25, 2009)

^I don't think that. Never said I did.

But I see your point. Any company can make an isolated mistake. But not all of them will correct it. And almost none will correct in a matter of days like Panerai did.

If anything this whole debacle has increased my respect for Panerai.|>


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

So I guess here is what I get from all of this: 
Panerai introduced a limited edition watch with a Incabloc shock protection, well know it has come out that the movement put in the watch looks to be a Asian (faux Swiss) movement in it without Incabloc shock protection. 

Now they are offering the correct movement that was already suppose to be installed but they want you to pay shipping to fix this?? Now understand this is the movement that was already suppose to be in it. 

And they don't admit no guilt since the one in it is a decent movement?????

This is straight up a lie know matter how you slice. I don't know if they make you drink a magic potion before you buy one of their watches but to stand by their side and argue this point is actually the moves of a fanatic.

Hell image if a micro brew did this??? Or for that matter isn't that why so many people hate on Invicta??

Maybe Panerai should call up Chris over at LumTec and see if he has any left over parts from the old days.


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

:think:
the top pic the LE Panerai and the bottom one is a homage for $150. which one looks better, and which one has shock protection?


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

StiloTime said:


> This statement implies that Panerai knew about the sub standard movement before installation and went ahead and installed them anyways. This is not a good thing to have done, especially to a loyal fanbase that Panerai has. Fact is, not many people would walk into a boutique and buy the 318 as their first Panerai. The 150 that bought them were no doubt return customers who wanted a "special" watch in their Panerai collection. Sorry to say, but there is nothing special about putting a sub standard movement in a special edition and calling it an OP XXIX, as if to fool the fanbase into thinking there was something special about it. Not cool, not cool at all..


+1

It's like a defendant agreeing to pay a huge settlement, but still refusing to admit any wrongdoing. As if pretending that agreeing to pay a settlement in the first place isn't the absolute biggest admission one can make. Don't get me wrong, not trying to imply that OP did something illegal. But it's clear they did something unethical. I've never even remotely heard of a company offering to swap out the entire movement in a line of watches they make. Forget about free. I mean, at all. This is OP's version of a large, monetary, settlement. Along with the pretending being done that they refuse to admit to having done anything wrong.

It's simple. OP tried to pull a fast one, and got caught. They cared more about money than their loyal customers. (And they do have some of the most loyal customers in the watch industry.) Having gotten caught, this movement swap is their attempt at saving their reputation.

As for all those who bought this particular model . . . Of course they're saying they're happy with the purchase. You get duped, conned, and cheated; and others find out about it? You don't want to look silly in front of others. Or even worse, have them feel sorry for you. Especially if you're a guy. So you tell everyone who asks about the watch that you're happy with it. Have no clue why others are so upset that the movement was not even close to what such an expensive watch should contain.

Let's face it, if you win a date with a hot woman who invites you back to her hotel room while your friends are standing next to you; you're going to tell them you satisfied her all night long. You're not going to tell them what actually happened . . . That she ended up having one too many drinks when you got to her room, that she vomited in your lap, and then passed out. You definitely saw her bed. That part is true. You laid her down on the bed before cleaning off your pants and walking out the door. But you're still telling your friends that you're happy with your date.


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## stilo (Aug 11, 2009)

jacksonian said:


> No, you inferred that. That statement doesn't imply that. That fact that they're replacing the movement at all* implies that a mistake was made*. I'm going to ask people one more time. Truly, do you think that Panerai did this to fool people, to dupe them, to scam them, to rip them off, whatever? Seriously? If you were in charge of a company that made that much money, you'd say, "Hey, let's squeeze these suckers for an extra $200 a pop and use a cheap movement, the'll never know!" Really? You'd risk your whole company's reputation to make an extra $30,000 total? That's the price of a billboard in Time's Square for the afternoon. Clearly someone made a mistake. And now they're fixing it.


I agree with you on most of what was said except for where you say that it implies that Panerai made a mistake. A mistake is an error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness. I don't think this falls into any of that. Fact is, they gave the movement a special name, the OP XXIX. You're telling me that the production team put the wrong movement in it and then QC didn't catch that?

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but I don't think it was a mistake either. Again, this is just my opinion. I'm not about to argue with anyone without knowing more and unfortunately, we may never know because Panerai will never come out and tell you that they deliberately or mistakenly put a sub par movement in a 5K watch.

Either way, if I buy another Panerai, it will either be an exibition case back or an inhouse movement watch.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Considering which company we're talking about, a mistake would be a handful of defective watches slipping by QC. But an entire line of watches? All 150 of them? If so, then OP needs to fire every member of their Quality Control staff; and sue them to get back the money they paid them.


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## richc1958 (Nov 21, 2010)

StiloTime said:


> How can I know for sure? With an solid case back, there's no way of telling for sure.
> 
> I have to be honest, seeing this thread and the whole Amazon/Costco now selling Panerai, I'm starting to doubt Panerai's exclusiveness.


I saw Costco selling a Breitling today cant remember which one but it cost about 4400.00 usd


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## typericey (Sep 21, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> It's simple. OP tried to pull a fast one, and got caught. They cared more about money than their loyal customers. (And they do have some of the most loyal customers in the watch industry.) Having gotten caught, this movement swap is their attempt at saving their reputation.


Indeed. Maybe OP was thinking: "what are the chances anyone of the 150 will open up the case back on their own?" They probably have stats that out of the thousands of steel caseback models sold each year, very few have their watch serviced at all, and if they do get serviced, it's behind closed doors of the Panerai service center where the customer will not see the movement.

If I can sum up the mission of high end horology in one word, it's to be "_uncompromising_." I don't think OP adhered to that in this case.

Early this year I coughed out blood trying to finance the most expensive watch in my modest collection: my one and only PAM. I bought it because I was sold on what it stands for: DNA, history, quality, unmistakable design and all that blah. Now I would think of Panerai as still having all that, but also having that tiny little scar that the majority of the public might not notice, but the occasional WIS I'll bump into would probably remember "Oh he's wearing a watch from that supposedly high end company who cheated and compromised once." Sorry if I'm being melodramatic here. I don't have an LE 318 but somehow, I feel that OP has cheated on me too, a freshman loyalist at that!

I'm just glad Panerai responded by offering a replacement. Better than turning a blind eye. I wonder what movement they'll replace them with? Still, I want to know exactly what kind of movement was in the LE, and I'm hoping at the very least that it's a _real_ ETA.


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

jacksonian said:


> Posted by Paddy on Paneristi this am, from the desk of Sig. Bonati:
> Please note the movement currently supplied is not inferior nor implied as such


O.....k.....a.....y.......?!?!?!

I guess he wont mind me sending in 10 low grade ETA 6497 for 10 Panerai SOPROD 6498 non COSC movements then?

ETA 6497 low grade <$150
Panerai SOPROD 6498 >$1000

The movement currently supplied is inferior in -

Price
Quailty
Beat Rate
Finish
Branding
Shock protection
Oiling
Perception


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## typericey (Sep 21, 2011)

jaytaylor said:


> O.....k.....a.....y.......?!?!?!
> 
> I guess he wont mind me sending in 10 low grade ETA 6497 for 10 Panerai SOPROD 6498 non COSC movements then?
> 
> ...


Not really an expert here, but you missed _Glucydur balance wheel_ in your list. I believe most PAMs have that, and that the low grade ERA 6497 doesn't.

By the way, what is a "SOPROD"?


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Honestly, it would take less time to list the ways the movement _*isn't *_inferior.


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## sebmartinez (Apr 20, 2009)

NYWatchFan said:


> that sounds to me like 'we dont need you in the panerai club'.
> 
> oh well.


jajaja it truly does , amazing what brand loyalty would blind


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

delivery time.:-!


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

NYWatchFan said:


> that sounds to me like 'we dont need you in the panerai club'.
> 
> oh well.


You are reading FAR too much into that. I know Brent on a personal level and I can promise you that you're wrong about what he is saying. He is simply saying that if this scenario is enough to put you off Panerai, then go buy a different brand by all means. The last thing anyone wants for another collector is to spend a lot of $$$ on a watch they are unhappy with.

Everyone just step back and take a couple of deep breaths. Panerai never mislead anyone with their descriptions of the watch. The movement was not what people *assumed* it would be, but it WAS as advertised. If you are unhappy, Panerai is offering you a basically no-cost option to remedy your discontent. Period.

If you think that's unacceptable and this will diminish your enjoyment of whatever Panerai watch you might buy, looking elsewhere might be the reasonable thing to do. In the end, only you can decide that.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

toxicavenger said:


> So I guess here is what I get from all of this:
> Panerai introduced a limited edition watch with a Incabloc shock protection, well know it has come out that the movement put in the watch looks to be a Asian (faux Swiss) movement in it without Incabloc shock protection.


Wrong. They never misrepresented the movement in the watch, people made assumptions based on the other Panerai movements - not that this is unreasonable. The movement is not "faux Swiss", it is an undecorated Swiss ETA 6497-1.



toxicavenger said:


> Now they are offering the correct movement that was already suppose to be installed but they want you to pay shipping to fix this?? Now understand this is the movement that was already suppose to be in it.


Wrong again. They are offering to replace the movement with a decorated one. The movement that came in these watches is the movement that was SUPPOSED to come in these watches. Whether that was a good or bad decision is up to the individual to determine - I think it was a bad idea, but no one was ever lied to about it. Panerai clearly stated that this watch would be using a different movement that had not been used in any other Panerai watches.



toxicavenger said:


> And they don't admit no guilt since the one in it is a decent movement?????
> 
> This is straight up a lie know matter how you slice. I don't know if they make you drink a magic potion before you buy one of their watches but to stand by their side and argue this point is actually the moves of a fanatic.


No, not a lie, see above. Don't get me wrong, if I owned a 318, I would be disappointed and I would definitely be taking advantage of the offer to swap out the movement, but absolutely no one was lied to.



toxicavenger said:


> Hell image if a micro brew did this??? Or for that matter isn't that why so many people hate on Invicta??
> 
> Maybe Panerai should call up Chris over at LumTec and see if he has any left over parts from the old days.


I have no idea what beer has to do with this and people dislike Invicta for myriad reasons.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

jaytaylor said:


> O.....k.....a.....y.......?!?!?!
> 
> I guess he wont mind me sending in 10 low grade ETA 6497 for 10 Panerai SOPROD 6498 non COSC movements then?
> 
> ...


Small correction, Jay, the SOPROD decorated movements are 6497-2s, not 6498s. They also certainly don't cost Panerai $1K a pop, but understand the point you're making and I agree. The "not inferior" bit is an attempt at marketing, IMO. I don't think you'd find many watch enthusiasts that would view an undecorated, lower beat movement as not "inferior". Having said that, I don't believe any 318 owners have had any functionality or timekeeping complaints over the last three years. I haven't seen any, at least.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

typericey said:


> ...By the way, what is a "SOPROD"?


SOPROD SA

SOPROD is the company that Panerai (and others) use to modify/decorate their ETA-based movements.


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

So you are saying that when Panerai advertised it as a movement with shock protection and it didn't have that type of movement in it that we are wrong to judge them because of that?

Please explain how we are reading that wrong.


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## NYWatchFan (Aug 30, 2010)

They did mislead. It is good they are fixing. but everyone who is now defending Panerai sounds like they have drank the magic kool aid.


















handwound said:


> Wrong. They never misrepresented the movement in the watch, people made assumptions based on the other Panerai movements - not that this is unreasonable. The movement is not "faux Swiss", it is an undecorated Swiss ETA 6497-1.
> 
> Wrong again. They are offering to replace the movement with a decorated one. The movement that came in these watches is the movement that was SUPPOSED to come in these watches. Whether that was a good or bad decision is up to the individual to determine - I think it was a bad idea, but no one was ever lied to about it. Panerai clearly stated that this watch would be using a different movement that had not been used in any other Panerai watches.
> 
> ...


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

That must be some early advertising for the 318, as they stated before any production hit the Boutiques (IIRC) that it would NOT be a COSC movement, that it would be the OPXXIX movement specific ONLY to the 318, not the OPII, etc, etc, etc.

I haven't been following the 318 that much, but I know there was definitely information published by Panerai that is contrary to the information you have in your pics.

Look, I'm really not trying to justify what they did. I'm just trying to keep things accurate. Obviously advertising that "OPXXIX" as an "exclusive movement only for the 318" was shady marketing, but it wasn't a lie. Again, if I had a 318 I'd be upset and I'd definitely be sending it back to Panerai for the movement swap, but let's keep to the facts.


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

you are right they didn't actually say that it was COSC movement in them and that was a old advertisement. 

but for a fact they did say it would have a movement with Shock Protection and the one in the 318 doesn't have this feature.

so yes they did lie no matter how you slice it.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

That 6497-1 that came in the 318 absolutely does have shock protection, it's simply that it is Novodiac instead of Incabloc. Have a look here: Regular Incabloc and THE NEW "Novodiac" by Incabloc Shock Systems Parts for ETA & FHH ST 96, 969N, 969-4N

This is exactly what is found in the movement pictured for the 318:


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

you are right when I looked at the pic again I did see the shock protection I forgot to mention it uses the lowest of the class shock protection and not Incabloc.

but I do still stand behind my comments about panerai's way of doing business. it is two faced and a shady way of doing business imo.

good luck to everyone who continue's to business with them.


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## austinnh (May 25, 2009)

Calling an unmodified ETA (if it is an ETA) an OP XXIX is misleading. They probably didn't even assemble it. Seems fair to call it a lie.

Furthermore, it's one thing if earlier marketing was incorrect in some detail. But when it is so drastically wrong as this, the customer has clearly been mislead. Sure sometimes small unexpected changes have to be made somewhere along the supply chain, but it's not like the OPXXIX had some small differences from the OPII. It was a whole different animal and when the spec of a watch is being changed so drastically, the customer needs to be clearly and precisely notified of the new spec. To do otherwise is dishonest.


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## gerrylb (Mar 5, 2008)

You can split hairs all you want regarding definitions and what was actually meant, but I believe anyone with an ounce of objectivity can see that, as far as marketing of the 318 is concerned, there was an intent on the company's part to mislead or deceive trusting customers.


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## HelloNasty1 (Jul 8, 2007)

I just finished reading this whole thread and have one comment and one question:

I agree it was not a mistake, worse, it was deliberate. OP does not have a single movement this unaltered or finished in that anyway. Anyone in the factory or inspection or quality control or penny pincher would have seen that this has not ever been done and odd, UNLESS intentional. Which let's face it, it was. Does that mean OP was trying to dupe buyers, NO. But maybe...we will never know. 

Question:
That is great they will replace movement for those hanging on the forums to know. But will they reach out to all buyers personally? I think that is the right thing to do since obviously OP recognizes this is not something they are willing to stand behind as it is subpar for them, they would not admit this, but basically already have by doing the right thing with new movements. 

Would be cool if they really stepped up and threw in an in-house movement. But their not going to be that cool about it.

Whatever OP saved by using this movement, they have lost 1000X in Public Relations. This is one of those festering sores that will never completely go away. Someone will always bring this up or toss it around for many years to come on forums anyway. 
It will go something like this in one of those annoying threads:
Q - What is better Rolex vs Panerai
A - Rolex, at least you know what movement your getting

It will be endless, just wait...


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## penerai 1950 (Nov 25, 2009)

it is indeed a horrible news that Panerai installed such an low grade movement in one of their LE productions. This issue will definitely affect Panerai popularity for a long time to come.


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## DDD3333 (Sep 11, 2011)

Why would anyone attempt to defend this on any level? 

The insult to injury is Bonati's claim that this tatty movement was not inferior. It was patently a deliberate decision to install the movement and the frightening aspect is that numerous people involved within several different levels at the Panerai of today allowed this to proceed. How can you claim to represent a luxury item then willingly undermine the integrity of your own product?

I have been a fan of Panerai with 'reservations' for a while. Reservations simply because their limited edition strategy is smart, creates a demand and high resale value, but on the other hand is a joke where often times with just the slightest retooling or change in movement, literally several more thousands of dollars are casually charged. In my fact my reservation is that for all the brand 'smarts', Panerai's mastery of the overcharge, the ludicrous margins seem part of the company DNA.

OP then has the bloody nerve to inform 150 loyal customers to pay for their own shipping and insurance if they want to change the movements? Kind of deflates all the Panerai support here doesn't it? The silly 'why would Panerai ruin their reputation with 150 watches' rubbish above. Shipping 150 watches back to NY or LA would cost Panerai considerably less than US$7,500 in total (and of course this is with no confirmation that Panerai is even going to inform all 150 owners they got taken for a ride)....


...and trust me, this comes from someone who thinks OP often epitomizes all that I love about watches.

What an insulting episode for all concerned.


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## rybst (Nov 3, 2010)

Apparently Panerai have offered to replace the movements for the owners of the 318 now.
You (the owner) is responsible for shipping and insurance to their boutiques in NY and LA only.
I think that is a pretty decent thing for them to have done/offered.


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## avatar1 (Sep 15, 2008)

rybst said:


> Apparently Panerai have offered to replace the movements for the owners of the 318 now.
> You (the owner) is responsible for shipping and insurance to their boutiques in NY and LA only.


Didn't read the thread, hu? The prior 2 pages deal with that info.



> I think that is a pretty decent thing for them to have done/offered.


Nope. It's pure irony. Read the thread.


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## socalbreeze (Feb 9, 2009)

Holy Smokes! I've been busy with work and just started to check back on this thread and Risti...I'm for one is taking advantage of it. I'm calling the BH boutique tomorrow. I'm also gonna notify my buddy who also owns one and let him know that he shouldn't be so disappointed anymore now that OP has decided to to put a new movement in there for 318 owners. 

I have the strangest feeling that the 318 with the swap movement is going to be a collectible down the road. Love it or hate it, its impossible to stop Panerai...


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## socalbreeze (Feb 9, 2009)

Its impossible for OP to reach out to the 150 owners. Many of the original owners have flipped the watch for profit. To be honest with you guys, I bet the general public doesn't even know about this. If it ain't for some watchnuts going apesh!t on Risti, OP would of never agree to do this. In all, it was still a decent gesture because you and I on the forums only represent a small portion of Richemont's business.


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## bailey19 (Oct 22, 2009)

A severe and gross mistake on OP's part; OP is trying to address it as best as it can ( through carefully worded statements and the only decent thing they can do at this point, which is to replace the movement). 
False advertising or not, I dont think anyone would have bought the 318 if it had a clear display back-showing the barebones movement-at the price point for which it sold.


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## xjeeunitx (Aug 4, 2010)

I don't know about you guys but... if anyone wants to sell me a 318 untouched, I'll buy it for what they bought it for.

I wouldn't send it into PANERAI for that decorated movement either. The fact is... this watch is a limited edition and it surely is one of those things that will go down in history, whether it was good or not.

I'm sure in years, this watch will be wanted and price will be higher than the MSRP now.


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

It might be more of a limited edition to get the newer correct movement in it since I bet the common folk do not know about this glitch so there will continue to be more available that will have the inferior movement in it.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

How about we let this one die--all possible rants have been unleashed, all indignant responses duly acknowledged, all defenses humbly observed--enough all ready!! Let's move on!


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