# New Grand Seiko SBGA469 Boutique Limited Online Edition Katsu-iro



## charlesgenta

Just announced!

--
The distinctive indigo dye known as _Katsu-iro_ has a long tradition stretching all the way back to 15th century Japan during the Sengoku period. The unique blue hue of this indigo dye signified victory, and it was proudly used on armor worn by samurai. Grand Seiko previously deployed this color on the dial of SBGC238 to great effect. Today, Grand Seiko brings together this dynamic hue with the brand’s acclaimed _Iwao_, or rock pattern, dial in SBGA469, a highly versatile Spring Drive package through the Heritage Collection.
--









Source: https://grandseikogs9club.com/chronicle-9/sbga469-spring-drive/


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## sgtiger

I think the e-mail is misleading where it states "limited online" -- rather, I believe this is an "online exclusive" non-limited piece.

_EDIT_

If anyone is curious, I called Grand Seiko. It's a "limited production" watch -- which means they will fill orders until they eventually stop taking orders over 12 months or so -- or when they ultimately decide to end production based on demand. It's not limited to a certain production amount -- only demand while it is available on the website.


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## JLittle

GS website states: 'Boutique Online Exclusive Limited Edition Model '


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## sgtiger

JLittle said:


> GS website states: 'Boutique Online Exclusive Limited Edition Model '


No, it states "Boutique Online Exclusive"


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## JLittle

sgtiger said:


> No, it states "Boutique Online Exclusive"


I literally copied and pasted. It says what I wrote underneath 'contact boutique' tab.








SBGA469G | Grand Seiko


A classic Spring Drive design with a dial in Katsuiro indigo




www.grand-seiko.com


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## sgtiger

JLittle said:


> I literally copied and pasted


I literally provided the screenshots above from the boutique online store. I'm highlighting that there is a mismatch between the actual store and the promo/marketing page. Someone might want to verify that it's actually limited to quantity, and to how many pieces, if so. The word "limited" doesn't appear anywhere on the boutique page.


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## JLittle

sgtiger said:


> I literally provided the screenshots above from the boutique online store.


FFS, I provided the link. Look what it says under 'Contact Boutique' Read it and then tell me what I copied and pasted isn't there.


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## kritameth

In all the pictures except the first one it almost looks like a flat blue dial, interesting lighting. Glad to see the printing on the sapphire caseback translucent.


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## JLittle

kritameth said:


> In all the pictures except the first one it almost looks like a flat blue dial, interesting lighting. Glad to see the printing on the sapphire caseback translucent.


yeah, the photos did great justice to the blue, no justice to the texture.


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## Whiskey&Watch

kritameth said:


> In all the pictures except the first one it almost looks like a flat blue dial, interesting lighting. Glad to see the printing on the sapphire caseback translucent.





JLittle said:


> yeah, the photos did great justice to the blue, no justice to the texture.


GS website has better photos than the GS9 club website!


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## JLittle

Whiskey&Watch said:


> GS website has better photos than the GS9 club website!
> View attachment 16229067


True, and it's stunning, but for me the question is how it looks from normal viewing, which those other pictures gave us a better representation of. If I have to get that close to see the intricate beauty, then really at that point it's about how beautiful is that blue.

I love the pricing on this, that was a big surprise.


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## Whiskey&Watch

JLittle said:


> True, and it's stunning, but for me the question is how it looks from normal viewing, which those other pictures gave us a better representation of. If I have to get that close to see the intricate beauty, then really at that point it's about how beautiful is that blue.
> 
> I love the pricing on this, that was a big surprise.


Second that! The price is sweet, but we need to see some natural light photos! In usual GS fashion, from 1.5 meters, it goona look like dark navy! get closer, wow, the beautiful textures!


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## kritameth

Whiskey&Watch said:


> GS website has better photos than the GS9 club website!
> View attachment 16229067


Beautiful. The horizontal index striations is interesting. I haven't looked closely at GS for some time now, wondering how recent that is, IIRC a year or two ago they used to have only vertical and all-polished.


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## Whiskey&Watch

kritameth said:


> Beautiful. The horizontal index striations is interesting. I haven't looked closely at GS for some time now, wondering how recent that is, IIRC a year or two ago they used to have only vertical and all-polished.


This one is almost similar to your SBGA413, but more like paintbrush strokes and a bit random!


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## charlesgenta

I was surprised by the pricing too.

Well, at this point, I guess it is a limited edition after all.

"QTY Limit Reached" on the pre-order button.


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## david3558

Did you already have one in your cart?


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## charlesgenta

david3558 said:


> Did you already have one in your cart?


Oh hahah! Never mind. My mistake! You are right. I had one in the cart. 

Phew!


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## longtimelurker

Yesssss, tapered cardinals and not in the 44GS case. Wallet spared.


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## Wilfried84

Whiskey&Watch said:


> This one is almost similar to your SBGA413, but more like paintbrush strokes and a bit random!


It looks to be the identical "lion's mane" pattern, which they've used on numerous watches. (I compared it closely to my SBGA413, and yeah, there's the guy in the chef's hat on the left. It's a Rorschach test; I don't know if anyone else sees it.)

The price is great. I thought their prices were marching ever upward, but here they come out with one of the cheapest spring drives (since the ones for $3,800 are no more), with one of their more intricate dials. But alas, it's 41mm, which probably makes it too big for my wrist (though I love it, the SBGA413 wears bigger than I like, and it's 40mm). Does online boutique exclusive mean there won't be anyplace to try it on?


charlesgenta said:


> Well, at this point, I guess it is a limited edition after all.


To add a data point, under functions, "LIMITED EDITION on the case back."








SBGA469G | Grand Seiko


A classic Spring Drive design with a dial in Katsuiro indigo




www.grand-seiko.com




And sold out already? Damn, that was quick. 😐


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## charlesgenta

Wilfried84 said:


> And sold out already? Damn, that was quick. 😐


No it's still available for pre-order. My mistake. I had added to the shopping cart, which then changed the 'Pre-order' button to 'QTY Limit Reached'.


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## SmoGea

This is a beautiful alternative to Snowflake. The price is sweet too. I am not sure about the size, especially the lug to lug size


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## TimeMachine34

Nice watch!


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## acebruin

it is indeed the lion's mane dial... color is similar to sbga433... this one is a little more blue...


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## alex_b

Wilfried84 said:


> It looks to be the identical "lion's mane" pattern, which they've used on numerous watches. (I compared it closely to my SBGA413, and yeah, there's the guy in the chef's hat on the left. It's a Rorschach test; I don't know if anyone else sees it.)


Yep I see him!


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## DonJ53

I can see a Snowflake with blue dial and silver second hand but not the chef.


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## mediasapiens

What about ''guy in a chef's hat'' under 3 o'clock? If I understood comment correctly it has appeared already on another Seiko dial. Which leads me to believe that these are mass produced, stamped pattern dial and not a fru-fru artisanal (every watch is different) 1000 y.o. Japanese tradition blah blah blah.
Am I misunderstanding this pattern discovery? I was under heavy marketing fog that each dial is made by hand and thus unique...


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## DonJ53




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## Domo

I'm a fan - nice to see a black date wheel on the blue dial


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## Chrono Brewer

Wilfried84 said:


> It looks to be the identical "lion's mane" pattern, which they've used on numerous watches.





Domo said:


> I'm a fan - nice to see a black date wheel on the blue dial


Every piece with this dial texture looks great. Now if only they would use it with Series 9 case and 9RA2 movement, putting PR indicator on the back. Maybe one day.


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## singularityseven

So does anyone know if this quantity limited?


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## Pongster

Still Blue Iwate for me as the best blue dial of Seiko


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## longtimelurker

mediasapiens said:


> What about ''guy in a chef's hat'' under 3 o'clock? If I understood comment correctly it has appeared already on another Seiko dial. Which leads me to believe that these are mass produced, stamped pattern dial and not a fru-fru artisanal (every watch is different) 1000 y.o. Japanese tradition blah blah blah.
> Am I misunderstanding this pattern discovery? I was under heavy marketing fog that each dial is made by hand and thus unique...


SMH

"marketing fog" having the meaning of "ignorance", yeah. It's never been a secret that the texture is stamped. Don't know why you would think otherwise. 

_Sigh_ ...


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## ts298

This watch is gorgeous and the price is great. 41 mm is a deal-killer for my small wrists though.


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## SmoGea

ts298 said:


> This watch is gorgeous and the price is great. 41 mm is a deal-killer for my small wrists though.


I am worried about the size too. What size is your wrist?


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## ts298

SmoGea said:


> I am worried about the size too. What size is your wrist?


6 inches... I stick to 40mm and less, ideally 39 mm. I wish GS would bring these beautiful dials into smaller cases.


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## SmoGea

ts298 said:


> 6 inches... I stick to 40mm and less, ideally 39 mm. I wish GS would bring these beautiful dials into smaller cases.


I think this watch would be too big for a 6 inch wrist. The ultimate GS with such dial, no pr indicator and 38-39 mm. Maybe one day


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## Goyo924

The GS9 Club email mentions the dial is the same color as on the SBGC238 (just without the cluttered dial). I for one am pretty happy they made this 41mm. I can’t hate on the power reserve as it’s classic GS design. Pretty sure I’ll be placing my preorder soon.


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## sticky

I can only see blue broccoli. (Must get eye check booked)


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## SISL

All things considered, I like that one better than the SLGA007. I like the markers better, I like the hour hand better, and I sure like the pricing better. Do we agree that "limited" in this context simply refers to the distribution channel and not the number of units?

The dial of the SLGA007 is probably nicer (we'll see), and I'm sure the movement is much better. I wonder about the general finishing. I suspect there's going to be some head scratching among SLGA007 customers.


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## JLittle

Functions

Water resistance :10 barMagnetic resistance :EquippedWeight :150.0 gOther details / Features :
・30 jewels
・Date display
・LIMITED EDITION on the case back
・Power reserve display
・Screw case back
・Screw-down crown
・See-through case back
・Stop seconds hand function


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## ts298

jdelage said:


> All things considered, I like that one better than the SLGA007. I like the markers better, I like the hour hand better, and I sure like the pricing better. Do we agree that "limited" in this context simply refers to the distribution channel and not the number of units?
> 
> The dial of the SLGA007 is probably nicer (we'll see), and I'm sure the movement is much better. I wonder about the general finishing. I suspect there's going to be some head scratching among SLGA007 customers.


I find the SLGA007 and White Birch dials to be overstated relative to other GS. This is restrained and preferable IMO. What I like about the series 9, besides the beautiful case, is the movement style and also the bracelet, which is supposed to be a massive improvement over the standard GS styles (in terms of construction and feel; it also doesn't have polish on the center links). That's why I think this pricing might make sense relative to the SLGA007.


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## cyanam

Case back pic on the website says Limited Edition.


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## Nokie

It looks very interesting, especially the way the dial is represented.


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## OSUMBA2003

I like it, but wish it was smaller.


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## Renkensue

unfortunate that its an online boutique only, would love to see this one in person to see the shifts in the dial. The pictures seem to show that pattern at very specific angles and fade away into a solid colour in other angles, I like that.


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## sgtiger

If anyone is curious, I called Grand Seiko. It's a "limited production" watch -- which means they will fill orders until they eventually stop taking orders over 12 months or so -- or when they ultimately decide to end production based on demand. It's not limited to a certain production amount -- only demand while it is available on the website.


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## chas58

kritameth said:


> In all the pictures except the first one it almost looks like a flat blue dial, interesting lighting. Glad to see the printing on the sapphire caseback translucent.


The dial looks just like the spring/winter but in a different color. In certain lighting, my dial looks smooth grey to beige. The surface of the dial itself has NO texture; it is smooth (much to my surprise - took me a couple of days to realize this). This is in contrast to the snowflake which does have texture on the surface. 




kritameth said:


> Beautiful. The horizontal index striations is interesting. I haven't looked closely at GS for some time now, wondering how recent that is, IIRC a year or two ago they used to have only vertical and all-polished.


Yep, just like the original winter/spring in the 4 seasons. They actually have a subtle rainbow reflect if there is a point lighting source.



Renkensue said:


> unfortunate that its an online boutique only, would love to see this one in person to see the shifts in the dial. The pictures seem to show that pattern at very specific angles and fade away into a solid colour in other angles, I like that.


good point. Well, if you can see a abga413/5 you'll get a feel for it I imagine. Those don't have a huge change, but they do shift around a bit. I didn't really notice this in the boutique, as it changes base on lighting - and the dealer lighting is basically that strong overhead stuff. That, compared to indirect lighting, direct sunlight, normal indoor light, and overcast/cloudy day all look a little different.


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## MX793

ts298 said:


> 6 inches... I stick to 40mm and less, ideally 39 mm. I wish GS would bring these beautiful dials into smaller cases.


A resounding +1.


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## whineboy

Wilfried84 said:


> It looks to be the identical "lion's mane" pattern, which they've used on numerous watches. (I compared it closely to my SBGA413, and yeah, there's the guy in the chef's hat on the left. It's a Rorschach test; I don't know if anyone else sees it.)


I never knew about the chef’s hat, I louped my Spring and think I see it. Thank you, that’s funny (I like the suggestion of a later poster that it’s a GS watchmaker in the uniform hat). 

Another little-known “fact” I’ve heard - the “i” in the stylized “Grand Seiko” logo is a man with folded hands and traditional conical hat. I pulled this image from the cover of a GS manual:










Sorry for the slight hijack, OP. 

BTW - I love this watch, if I had the funds I’d be tempted. 


Having a great time….


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## Wilfried84

alex_b said:


> Yep I see him!





whineboy said:


> I never knew about the chef’s hat, I louped my Spring and think I see it. Thank you, that’s funny (I like the suggestion of a later poster that it’s a GS watchmaker in the uniform hat).


Oh, good, it's not just me, and I'm not crazy. Or we all are.


whineboy said:


> Another little-known “fact” I’ve heard - the “i” in the stylized “Grand Seiko” logo is a man with folded hands and traditional conical hat. I pulled this image from the cover of a GS manual:


That can't be unseen. 😫


DonJ53 said:


> View attachment 16229418


OMG.

And then there's the lumberjack facing the guy in the chef's hat. Clearly I spend way too much time staring at this dial...


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## Glashütte25

sgtiger said:


> If anyone is curious, I called Grand Seiko. It's a "limited production" watch -- which means they will fill orders until they eventually stop taking orders over 12 months or so -- or when they ultimately decide to end production based on demand. It's not limited to a certain production amount -- only demand while it is available on the website.


Thanks for clarifying that. They’re sold out on the first batch which will be shipped by 12/15/2021. I guess we need to wait until more are available.


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## manofrolex

Imagine how much better it would be w that PR in the back ….


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## Renkensue

Glashütte25 said:


> Thanks for clarifying that. They’re sold out on the first batch which will be shipped by 12/15/2021. I guess we need to wait until more are available.


I wonder how many they had available for the first batch, was sold out faster than I expected



manofrolex said:


> Imagine how much better it would be w that PR in the back ….


They would have to throw a 9RA2 in there which would hike up the cost and it would also make the SLGA007 which is coming out this december as well less desirable


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## covfefewithsugar

chas58 said:


> Those don't have a huge change, but they do shift around a bit.


Depends on your perspective, I guess. My 415 could go from a warm, cloudy white to an icy silver to a very warm silver, almost light brown. I sold it because of how the dial changed.


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## chatman

mediasapiens said:


> What about ''guy in a chef's hat'' under 3 o'clock? If I understood comment correctly it has appeared already on another Seiko dial. Which leads me to believe that these are mass produced, stamped pattern dial and not a fru-fru artisanal (every watch is different) 1000 y.o. Japanese tradition blah blah blah.
> Am I misunderstanding this pattern discovery? I was under heavy marketing fog that each dial is made by hand and thus unique...


Yeah the "fru fru" artisanal overlay is getting a little rich at this point. This dial stamp has been used to describe ice (SBGA415), cherry blossoms (SBGA413), the night sky (SBGA433), the daytime sky (SBGA435), and now samurai armor (SBGA469). Just change the color and you have a whole different theme and a totally unique watch, right? Pretty disingenuous. 

One of the things I did enjoy about the brand was the "artisanal" marketing (as well as the outstanding underlying quality of the pieces), but that branding was cultivated at at time when the company wasn't making as many watches (maybe?) and each unique dial stamp had a more one-of-a-kind feel. Now it seems like the well-liked "Lion's mane" dial is taking on whatever role GS marketing wants it to play. I am sure we'll see the same thing happen to other very successful dial types like Kira Zuri (SBGA387) and the wood-floor pattern found in the SBGH269 - suddenly more watches will be made in "themes" that trot out these previously exclusive finishes. 

Not that this dissuades me from buying their pieces - there's still an artisanal quality to the case finishing and the watches are truly fabulous. But it does put the lie to the marketing storytelling as just so much BS - an unfortunate piercing of my suspended disbelief, and a little bit of a credibility loss in my view.


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## covfefewithsugar

chatman said:


> Yeah the "fru fru" artisanal overlay is getting a little rich at this point. This dial stamp has been used to describe ice (SBGA415), cherry blossoms (SBGA413), the night sky (SBGA433), the daytime sky (SBGA435), and now samurai armor (SBGA469). Just change the color and you have a whole different theme and a totally unique watch, right? Pretty disingenuous.


And "the calm night sky" for the SBGE271. I like the pattern, but the recycling of the same pattern for different environments or things is comical. My SA and I had a laugh about this very thing some months ago.


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## mitch57

Yep! The new SBGA469 dial looks pretty much identical to the SBGA433. [For sale] Grand Seiko SBGA433 - Used - Fullset Papers. 

I would be willing to bet that the next new release will be a GS with the same dial as the SBGA435. For sale: Rare Grand Seiko Sbga435 - Limited edition-....

I've been lusting after both of these watches for months but the price of admission is way to high for either of these two previous models. I suspect that's why they sold out of the SBGA469 the same day they announced it.


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## theblueark

mitch57 said:


> Yep! The new SBGA469 dial looks pretty much identical to the SBGA433. [For sale] Grand Seiko SBGA433 - Used - Fullset Papers.


There's another one. The SBGA397 in a 62GS 4 seasons case. Another Grand Seiko Review - SBGA397


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## Stark1

chatman said:


> Yeah the "fru fru" artisanal overlay is getting a little rich at this point. This dial stamp has been used to describe ice (SBGA415), cherry blossoms (SBGA413), the night sky (SBGA433), the daytime sky (SBGA435), and now samurai armor (SBGA469). Just change the color and you have a whole different theme and a totally unique watch, right? Pretty disingenuous.
> 
> One of the things I did enjoy about the brand was the "artisanal" marketing (as well as the outstanding underlying quality of the pieces), but that branding was cultivated at at time when the company wasn't making as many watches (maybe?) and each unique dial stamp had a more one-of-a-kind feel. Now it seems like the well-liked "Lion's mane" dial is taking on whatever role GS marketing wants it to play. I am sure we'll see the same thing happen to other very successful dial types like Kira Zuri (SBGA387) and the wood-floor pattern found in the SBGH269 - suddenly more watches will be made in "themes" that trot out these previously exclusive finishes.
> 
> Not that this dissuades me from buying their pieces - there's still an artisanal quality to the case finishing and the watches are truly fabulous. But it does put the lie to the marketing storytelling as just so much BS - an unfortunate piercing of my suspended disbelief, and a little bit of a credibility loss in my view.


I enjoy the brand but I am with you on this. Don't forget that the new Summer of the international 4 seasons is just the White Birch turned 90 degrees!


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## poofoot

Stark1 said:


> I enjoy the brand but I am with you on this. Don't forget that the new Summer of the international 4 seasons is just the White Birch turned 90 degrees!


Is this really identical? Like crease by crease?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sgtiger

poofoot said:


> Is this really identical? Like crease by crease?


It's not identical because the Birch is modeled after Birch trees, and the Shosho after waves! But in seriousness, fairly different in actual application and viewing, although I can see why at a quick glance they look similar.


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## ndrs63

I see they went back to the sbga211-style hour markers at 12, 6, 9. That was one thing I could never get used to on my Snowflake 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DonJ53

They should mount it at 45° and release it as LE Fuji-san.


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## acebruin

DonJ53 said:


> They should mount it at 45° and release it as LE Fuji-san.


don't give them ideas... LOL


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## Chrono Brewer

Stark1 said:


> I enjoy the brand but I am with you on this. Don't forget that the new Summer of the international 4 seasons is just the White Birch turned 90 degrees!





poofoot said:


> Is this really identical? Like crease by crease?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





sgtiger said:


> It's not identical because the Birch is modeled after Birch trees, and the Shosho after waves! But in seriousness, fairly different in actual application and viewing, although I can see why at a quick glance they look similar.
> 
> View attachment 16239374
> 
> 
> View attachment 16239370


It’s the same die used to press a brass blank, then rotation and surface treatment differs to give color and texture. Whatever story they choose to give it is frequently more artistic impression than practical difference. Makes me think they just experiment with materials/methods, pick a pretty one, then come up with a nature “inspiration”. We have at least half a dozen using the Spring/Shubun dial stamp with just different colors and sheens.

Not that I’m complaining. I just feel liberty to call it whatever I interpret it as. The SBGY007 “Omiwatari” has 100% identical contours to the SLGA007 “Minamo” representing Lake Suwa in summer. Would I explain the phenomenon known as the pathway of the gods across a particular Japanese lake to a casual commenter? No. It’s just a dial depicting frozen water in my eyes. But it’s no less beautiful and remarkable to me.


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## sgtiger

Chrono Brewer said:


> It’s the same die used to press a brass blank, then rotation and surface treatment differs to give color and texture. Whatever story they choose to give it is frequently more artistic impression than practical difference. Makes me think they just experiment with materials/methods, pick a pretty one, then come up with a nature “inspiration”. We have at least half a dozen using the Spring/Shubun dial stamp with just different colors and sheens.
> 
> Not that I’m complaining. I just feel liberty to call it whatever I interpret it as. The SBGY007 “Omiwatari” has 100% identical contours to the SLGA007 “Minamo” representing Lake Suwa in summer. Would I explain the phenomenon known as the pathway of the gods across a particular Japanese lake to a casual commenter? No. It’s just a dial depicting frozen water in my eyes. But it’s no less beautiful and remarkable to me.


I'm not disputing similarities, I just think it's probably more like, "Hey team, we developed a way of creating this type of texture, we can use it in different ways, create more or less lines, more or less texture, depending on what we are trying to make it look like..." as opposed to, "Let's turn this dial 90 degrees, use the same exact brass stamp, paint a different color, and call it something entirely different." I'd say there's more similarity between a Rolex GMT dial and a Submariner dial than these two dials:


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## Chrono Brewer

sgtiger said:


> I'm not disputing similarities, I just think it's probably more like, "Hey team, we developed a way of creating this type of texture, we can use it in different ways, create more or less lines, more or less texture, depending on what we are trying to make it look like..." as opposed to, "Let's turn this dial 90 degrees, use the same exact brass stamp, paint a different color, and call it something entirely different." I'd say there's more similarity between a Rolex GMT dial and a Submariner dial than these two dials:
> 
> View attachment 16240491


A tool was used to manually score a die in roughly but not entirely parallel lines to create a plausibly organic artistic pattern. Some scores are so deep the edges are clearly defined, so it shows the maximum width of the tool used. Compare these four scores on both dials: #1 bisecting a cardinal index but longer on the clockwise side, #2 closer to the dial's center but on the counterclockwise side of the cardinal index, #3 of nearly identical length to #2 but closer to dial's edge and score #1 while entirely on the same clockwise side of the cardinal index as #1, #4 on the opposite side of the dial extending 45 degrees from dial's edge and terminating at the inner point of an index. Shirakaba uses index 9 as the cardinal while Shosho uses index 12.



















Subtle, but you can't unsee it. I only noticed because these deep scores are too aggressive for my taste and my only gripe about both of these dials. They did achieve impressive variation working with the number, texture, luster, polishing, and color of layers applied after stamping.


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## blairgscott

Chrono Brewer said:


> A tool was used to manually score a die in roughly but not entirely parallel lines to create a plausibly organic artistic pattern. Some scores are so deep the edges are clearly defined, so it shows the maximum width of the tool used. Compare these four scores on both dials: #1 bisecting a cardinal index but longer on the clockwise side, #2 closer to the dial's center but on the counterclockwise side of the cardinal index, #3 of nearly identical length to #2 but closer to dial's edge and score #1 while entirely on the same clockwise side of the cardinal index as #1, #4 on the opposite side of the dial extending 45 degrees from dial's edge and terminating at the inner point of an index. Shirakaba uses index 9 as the cardinal while Shosho uses index 12.
> 
> View attachment 16240803
> 
> 
> View attachment 16240804
> 
> 
> Subtle, but you can't unsee it. I only noticed because these deep scores are too aggressive for my taste and my only gripe about both of these dials. They did achieve impressive variation working with the number, texture, luster, polishing, and color of layers applied after stamping.


Its fairly undeniable. It is the same pressing, just different texture treatment and colour. Doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the watch but it does lead to questions of whether the dial was inspired by the birch trees, or simply marketed as such afterwards.


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## sgtiger

I mean, it's much easier to see with your markers. I can see that the same casting is likely so. 

Overlayed:










Side by side: Fortunately the surface treatments really do differentiate them far more than say, the SBGA435 and SBGA469.


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## chatman

Stark1 said:


> I enjoy the brand but I am with you on this. Don't forget that the new Summer of the international 4 seasons is just the White Birch turned 90 degrees!


Yeah that one really annoyed me.


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## poofoot

Very illuminating — thank you for the analysis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stark1

Adding to all the above analysis, I was chatting the GS brand ambassador at the NYC event two weekends ago and brought this exact dial topic up (mentioning that I've noticed the WB shares a dial texture with Summer). He did not dispute it, while adding that dial plans, including # of iterations, and the marketing stories are planned years ahead of time. This is no surprise, especially if you work for PD for a brand (I do), but it illuminates how calculated their business is (as any good business should be).


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## ts298

DonJ53 said:


> They should mount it at 45° and release it as LE Fuji-san.


LOL, so true. I don’t pay attention to the GS marketing which I find stressed. The dials are gorgeous and unique and that’s enough for me. GS is on a tear with the technique they use for the white birch. I’m hoping they’ll at some point make iterations on the Kira Zuri dial. That one was incredible.

Returning to the topic at hand though, this watch sold out in hours - it’s beautiful and was surprising well priced. It looks like GS has reached the next echelon or popularity.


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## chatman

blairgscott said:


> Its fairly undeniable. It is the same pressing, just different texture treatment and colour. Doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the watch but it does lead to questions of whether the dial was inspired by the birch trees, or simply marketed as such afterwards.


Since the SLGH005 was the first watch to have this dial stamp, I think there's a credible story there that it was in fact "inspired" by birch trees (though of course I can't confirm it). The later watches that use the same dial stamp to represent different "inspirations" are a bit rich IMO, and lack credibility. This is the same sort of thing that GS has been doing with it's very popular "Lion's Mane" stamp.


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## ts298

chatman said:


> Since the SLGH005 was the first watch to have this dial stamp, I think there's a credible story there that it was in fact "inspired" by birch trees (though of course I can't confirm it). The later watches that use the same dial stamp to represent different "inspirations" are a bit rich IMO, and lack credibility. This is the same sort of thing that GS has been doing with it's very popular "Lion's Mane" stamp.


They could be picking the rotation and coloring of their dial stamps in new models to suit what they’re seeing out the window of their lunch room at the watch studio - or maybe they pick the rotation and dial color first and reverse engineer the inspiration. I kid.

I do like that they are putting the dials in different cases. That adds significant differentiation imo.


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## Earthjade

poofoot said:


> Is this really identical? Like crease by crease?


Well, here's another example of artistic "one-of-a-kind-mass-produced" dials based on official Seiko photos of the SGBA413 and SGBA415:


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## watchbreather2

Great watch and great viewpoints.Cant wait to see it in person!!


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## palletwheel

Earthjade said:


> Well, here's another example of artistic "one-of-a-kind-mass-produced" dials based on official Seiko photos of the SGBA413 and SGBA415:
> 
> View attachment 16249563


Seiko is a mass manufacturer. They are not Voutilainen. So yes, one should expect this. I will say though they are among the best, maybe the best, mass manufacturer of dials and cases in the world, if you just separated out that part of their business. They do some creative things at large scale.


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## covfefewithsugar

palletwheel said:


> Seiko is a mass manufacturer. They are not Voutilainen. So yes, one should expect this. I will say though they are among the best, maybe the best, mass manufacturer of dials and cases in the world, if you just separated out that part of their business. They do some creative things at large scale.


You know what they say: if you give a mouse a cookie...

Grand Seiko offers hand polishing, beautiful dials, unique movements, and a hard titanium alloy if you want that all for roughly the same price as a basic oyster perpetual, yet people are upset about reused dies. Can't please everyone, I suppose.


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## whineboy

covfefewithsugar said:


> You know what they say: if you give a mouse a cookie...
> 
> Grand Seiko offers hand polishing, beautiful dials, unique movements, and a hard titanium alloy if you want that all for roughly the same price as a basic oyster perpetual, yet people are upset about reused dies. Can't please everyone, I suppose.


You mean Grand Seiko, at ~35K pieces/year, is almost mass produced like Rolex at 1M pieces/yr?  (huge GS fanboy being sarcastic). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## palletwheel

whineboy said:


> You mean Grand Seiko, at ~35K pieces/year, is almost mass produced like Rolex at 1M pieces/yr?  (huge GS fanboy being sarcastic).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seiko is a mass manufacturer, as a rule the dials and cases on all their product lines tend to be superior at each price point. GS is just one product line and it's that ability to leverage off the resources of the corporate parent that allows them the greater creativity they have.

BTW 35K watches a year is a lot of watches. In a good year Zenith only makes 20K and their fit and finish is as good as GS. Instead of a corporate parent Zenith leverages off the best of the Swiss parts manufacturers as a whole. But they make the movements and do the casing and final finishing.


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## Papillon4

chatman said:


> Yeah the "fru fru" artisanal overlay is getting a little rich at this point. This dial stamp has been used to describe ice (SBGA415), cherry blossoms (SBGA413), the night sky (SBGA433), the daytime sky (SBGA435), and now samurai armor (SBGA469). Just change the color and you have a whole different theme and a totally unique watch, right? Pretty disingenuous.
> 
> One of the things I did enjoy about the brand was the "artisanal" marketing (as well as the outstanding underlying quality of the pieces), but that branding was cultivated at at time when the company wasn't making as many watches (maybe?) and each unique dial stamp had a more one-of-a-kind feel. Now it seems like the well-liked "Lion's mane" dial is taking on whatever role GS marketing wants it to play. I am sure we'll see the same thing happen to other very successful dial types like Kira Zuri (SBGA387) and the wood-floor pattern found in the SBGH269 - suddenly more watches will be made in "themes" that trot out these previously exclusive finishes.
> 
> Not that this dissuades me from buying their pieces - there's still an artisanal quality to the case finishing and the watches are truly fabulous. But it does put the lie to the marketing storytelling as just so much BS - an unfortunate piercing of my suspended disbelief, and a little bit of a credibility loss in my view.


I’m in total agreement with this whole post !
The back stories behind GSs beautiful dials were what initially lured me into GS. Before the establishment in 2017 of Grand Seiko America , I think the “fru fru” was more legit ,- the Snow Flake’s and the Kira-Zuri’s , and the Iwate ‘s stories for example .
I hope and fervently pray that GS will never mess with the iconic Snowflake dial - it’s pattern will always represent the new fallen drifting snow on the Suwa mountains …


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## theblueark

There are a few in the wild already. Looks like the dial pattern is really really subtle with this colour.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CXUKO6_rpPg/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CXWXFqSLkxh/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CXY3GfULvBC/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CWxsvSTFtZ8/
 (click past that rolex image)


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## theblueark

I got a call and picked up a piece today! The pattern is crazy subtle. @chas58 you weren't kidding when you said the the surface of the dial itself has no texture. The texture is under the smooth finishing. It almost always appears completely blue. Only when you catch just the right angle with just the right amount of light, will the pattern reveal itself.


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## Frabky

Very nice! This is what I like with GS: the dial changes depending on the light.


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## chas58

theblueark said:


> I got a call and picked up a piece today! The pattern is crazy subtle. @chas58 you weren't kidding when you said the the surface of the dial itself has no texture. The texture is under the smooth finishing.


Crazy isn't it? 

Looks gorgeous on you. Congrats!


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## SISL

It's often the case with GS that the dial pattern is very subtile. I find this a bit tiring, honestly. It's not so much that I can't appreciate a discrete design, but the renders and promotional pictures always show a much more obvious pattern.


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## mitch57

Got an email this morning that the watch is again available for purchase. Yet, when you click on the link below is what you get.









Grand Seiko Spring Drive Boutique Limited Indigo SBGA469 Watch


Grand Seiko Spring Drive SBGA469 Boutique Online limited watch with indigo dial available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us




.

What a bunch of idiots! I can't believe they sold out again after only 3 hours of submitting the email. If that's the case, I'm all done with Grand Seiko if I can't even purchase one with in the same day they release the availability. Why bother unless you like sitting on the trigger for an auction item waiting for the next bid.

I'm not playing the Rolex game with Grand Seiko just like I didn't play that game with Rolex. There's far better alternatives with Omega and other well known brands that have readily available stock.


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## Cop_Out

mitch57 said:


> Got an email this morning that the watch is again available for purchase. Yet, when you click on the link below is what you get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Spring Drive Boutique Limited Indigo SBGA469 Watch
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Spring Drive SBGA469 Boutique Online limited watch with indigo dial available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandseikoboutique.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> What a bunch of idiots! I can't believe they sold out again after only 3 hours of submitting the email. If that's the case, I'm all done with Grand Seiko if I can't even purchase one with in the same day they release the availability. Why bother unless you like sitting on the trigger for an auction item waiting for the next bid.
> 
> I'm not playing the Rolex game with Grand Seiko just like I didn't play that game with Rolex. There's far better alternatives with Omega and other well known brands that have readily available stock.


I received an email yesterday afternoon at about 5pm that the watch was available for purchase; within the hour it was sold-out.


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## SISL

What do you want GS to do honestly? They produce the watches, then they make them available for sale. Sometimes they sell out fast, sometimes they linger for years. If they knew exactly how much to produce of each model, don't you think they'd do just that?


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## ndrs63

It’s a snowflake case with shunbun dial in blue. I just don’t get the price point. How is the snowflake $5,800, Spring $6,600 and this one $5,000? Feels a bit random, isn’t it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Goyo924

ndrs63 said:


> It’s a snowflake case with shunbun dial in blue. I just don’t get the price point. How is the snowflake $5,800, Spring $6,600 and this one $5,000? Feels a bit random, isn’t it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Snowflake and Spring are both titanium whereas the SBGA469 is steel. Grand Seiko raised the price of the Spring and Winter models earlier this year due to the rising price of titanium from what I heard. I can’t recall if the Snowflake’s price went up.


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## Dcnova

Very subtle dial but comes alive in right light. Mine came last Thursday love it


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## loganhunter2009

I don't know. I still like the SLGA007 more than this.


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## Dcnova

loganhunter2009 said:


> I don't know. I still like the SLGA007 more than this.


007 is twice the price. Like the 007 , the chopped off hands and big indices takes some getting used too .


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## Cop_Out

Samurai armor at the Samurai Museum in Japan.


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## ndrs63

Goyo924 said:


> The Snowflake and Spring are both titanium whereas the SBGA469 is steel. Grand Seiko raised the price of the Spring and Winter models earlier this year due to the rising price of titanium from what I heard. I can’t recall if the Snowflake’s price went up.


It did not!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mitch57

Cop_Out said:


> I received an email yesterday afternoon at about 5pm that the watch was available for purchase; within the hour it was sold-out.





jdelage said:


> What do you want GS to do honestly? They produce the watches, then they make them available for sale. Sometimes they sell out fast, sometimes they linger for years. If they knew exactly how much to produce of each model, don't you think they'd do just that?


How about doing something as basic as allowing us to order one? With a down payment or full purchase amount prior to ordering. How hard would it be for them to do that? Plus, they know the watch is sold before they even make it. I guess GS doesn't want to sell every watch they make or increase the amount they sell by allowing us to order one. Most likely, they want to create a feeding frenzy over the watch to see how popular it is. Snow Flake anyone?

Right now it's the luck of the draw unless you have someone who wants to monitor the email notification when it becomes available so they can pounce on it within seconds of releasing the email. It was sold out within an hour! I checked the GS site at least twice per day to see if it was available. The day I got the email I tried to order it within three hours of receiving the email and it was sold out. That's ridiculous and a terrible business practice.


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## Cop_Out

mitch57 said:


> How about doing something as basic as allowing us to order one? With a down payment or full purchase amount prior to ordering. How hard would it be for them to do that? Plus, they know the watch is sold before they even make it. I guess GS doesn't want to sell every watch they make or increase the amount they sell by allowing us to order one. Most likely, they want to create a feeding frenzy over the watch to see how popular it is. Snow Flake anyone?
> 
> Right now it's the luck of the draw unless you have someone who wants to monitor the email notification when it becomes available so they can pounce on it within seconds of releasing the email. It was sold out within an hour! I checked the GS site at least twice per day to see if it was available. The day I got the email I tried to order it within three hours of receiving the email and it was sold out. That's ridiculous and a terrible business practice.


I wasn't challenging you, sir. For whatever it's worth, I agree with you... Unless someone knew about the drop in advance securing the watch wasn't likely, not in an hour anyway.


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## mitch57

Is there anyone here that has or has seen both the SBGA375 and the SBGA469 side by side? I have the SBGA375 but would like some opinions on what your thoughts are between these two dials. The 375 is mostly blue but changes to lavender/purple in certain lighting but the dial is flat and has no sculpting like the 469.

I've heard that for the most part the dial on the SBGA469 is pretty much blue in most lighting situations and that you can't really see the sculpted surface of the dial unless you're in just the right lighting. I've also heard it looks better in the high def videos than it does in person.

Does anyone have any insight on this?


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## Goyo924

Here’s a recently uploaded video on the SBGA469.


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## dakotajames

Would have loved to see this watch (dial) without power reserve and date.


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## mitch57

I got an email from GS this morning offering me this model. Below is the email. I just pulled the trigger.

It appears they aren't going to do it the way they did it in the past. I raised such a stink with them about how they were sold out in less than an hour making it next to impossible to purchase one. So, they specifically reached out to me and asked if I was still interested in purchasing the watch.

Those of you who signed up to get notified when these become available again should have received the same email depending on your position on the waiting list.

*We hope you had a great start to 2022!

We have in our records as you being interested in the SBGA469 Boutique Online Exclusive. We are reaching out to our waitlist in chronological order as we have received a small allocation from Japan.

Please let us know if you are still interested in this piece. Please kindly get back to us by Monday the 17th.

Best regards,
Grand Seiko Boutique Online*


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## BrianBinFL

mitch57 said:


> I got an email from GS this morning offering me this model. Below is the email. I just pulled the trigger.
> 
> It appears they aren't going to do it the way they did it in the past. I raised such a stink with them about how they were sold out in less than an hour making it next to impossible to purchase one. So, they specifically reached out to me and asked if I was still interested in purchasing the watch.
> 
> Those of you who signed up to get notified when these become available again should have received the same email depending on your position on the waiting list.


I'm on the notification list but no notification here. So it must have been a very small number of them. I suspect when I get the notification I will probably buy one.


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## cyanam

Got my watch end of December 2021 and it was a stunner, my first GS, always thought it would be snowflake but that might be some other time. Pictures don't do justice to this watch. Also it almost looks like black/dark blue watch but when you look closer that is when you see the patterns and indigo.


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## Meteorite

mitch57 said:


> I got an email from GS this morning offering me this model. Below is the email. I just pulled the trigger.
> 
> It appears they aren't going to do it the way they did it in the past. I raised such a stink with them about how they were sold out in less than an hour making it next to impossible to purchase one. So, they specifically reached out to me and asked if I was still interested in purchasing the watch.
> 
> Those of you who signed up to get notified when these become available again should have received the same email depending on your position on the waiting list.
> 
> *We hope you had a great start to 2022!
> 
> We have in our records as you being interested in the SBGA469 Boutique Online Exclusive. We are reaching out to our waitlist in chronological order as we have received a small allocation from Japan.
> 
> Please let us know if you are still interested in this piece. Please kindly get back to us by Monday the 17th.
> 
> Best regards,
> Grand Seiko Boutique Online*


I got the same email and jumped at it, watch was delivered and I'm really enjoying the beginningof the honeymoon. The texture is really subtle like everyone else has said unless you catch it in the right light, then it pops!


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## Tanker G1

Just got this email this morning after replying that I was still interested over the weekend. Looks like I'll be buying a new GS today.


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## munichblue




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## theblueark

Dial texture decided to reveal itself early this morning under low light conditions


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## vegaseasy

That's a beauty. The first GS that I was ready to purchase but the boutique showed sold out almost immediately.


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