# Polaris Mariner Date



## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Hi,
Is there anyone here who owns the JLC Polaris Mariner Date and can say something about the workmanship, wearing comfort and precision of this watch?
Also, it would be interesting for me to know whether it is possible to exchange the original steel bracelet by the rubber strap of the Polaris here to the Mariner Date, since this model comes only with steel bracelet.
Tomorrow I have the chance to look at this model and would be happy if there is someone here who could tell me in advance from his experience.


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## 54B (Jan 6, 2016)

Hello! I happen to be wearing my Polaris Mariner Date today on a rubber strap. This is the blue strap from the Polaris line. I ordered it through the JLC boutique and it fits perfectly.

In terms of quality and time keeping, it is exactly as I would expect from JLC. It's a very nicely finished watch that keeps time well (I haven't measured it, but I don't need to adjust it often).

There are only two downsides from my perspective, neither of which would have put me off buying the watch (but this is obviously a personal decision). First, I find it tricky to twist the bezel (via the upper crown) whilst wearing the watch. It can be done, but it's quicker slipping the watch off, twisting the upper crown and slipping the watch back on). Second, I don't think the lume is great but that doesn't bother me.

I think it's nice having the bracelet and rubber strap. They provide two very different looks. I definitely prefer the strap for daily wear, with the bracelet providing a nice contrast when I want something smarter.

The dial is fantastic.

This is a large watch (on my 7" wrist) but I think it works as it's a diver. I find the height to be proportionate. The Memovox was just that little bit thicker (but is of course still very nice).

Enjoy trying on the watch tomorrow and let us know ho you get on!


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Hi, thanks for your reply.
Coming back to my experience by visiting the local dealer. I agree, the dial of the watch, this blue, ist really fantastic.
Also, I had the opportunity to look at the watch in the jeweler's basement because of the lume, nice.
What really bothered me about this model is that the setting for the minutes on the possible dive, unlike what you see in the picture, unfortunately does not meet the factory indices at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. The detent of the inner bezel is probably designed differently. Nevertheless, I managed to align the bezel similarly well as it is visible in your picture. However, the position is then not audible with one click, but adjusted between two clicks by me because of the optic.
Whether that is now wanted by JLC, that the inner bezel is a piece next to it. I can not say. 
The seller said that would probably be so and not a Monday model. But the seller wanted to listen again at JLC.
Another optical shortcoming is in my opinion the glass floor. Why is the view of the movement so reduced?
The bottom of the Polaris Diver Memovox is completely different. Here, the view of the movement is convincing.
What I also find a little strange is that when setting the time with the crown pulled out, the second hand moves by setting the minutes and when pushing back the crown, the minute hand also does not remain in the place where you wanted to set the time. Maybe a Monday watch?
Since it brings me little ifschon learn that the course of the clock watch for you as expected fails.
Everyone has different expectations and whether these can then be met, this would be times Uahlen necessary from JLC.
Anyway, if I had wanted to buy it, I would have put the watch on a time scale and looked at the different positions and their effect on the rate.
The purchase is therefore postponed for the above reasons.
Here some nice pics of the Polaris Diver I tried.


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## 54B (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks for the update. It's good to hear about your experience even if it wasn't what you expected.

Some of what you experienced sounds a bit odd if I've understood correctly.

I was surprised to read that the inner bezel didn't line up precisely with the hour markings. On my watch, the bezel clicks into place when the triangle on the bezel lines up with the "12". Like you, I wouldn't be happy with a watch at this price where that didn't line up.

Similarly, when you say "the second hand moves by setting the minutes" do you mean that the movement didn't hack, i.e. that when the crown was fully pulled out the second hand kept ticking? If so, something is not right there as the second hand on my Mariner Date stops when I'm setting the time. Similarly, the minute hand doesn't waiver when I push the crown back in.

These things make me wonder if it was a genuine watch. Before I bought mine, JLC showed me a pre-production model that looked completely finished but the boutique assured me was not the same as the real thing that would eventually be released. I'm not casting any aspersions on your jeweller, but am just wondering out loud (or on text, at least) whether you could have seen a pre-production model or something similar?

With regards to the sapphire case back, it is quite narrow compared to the case back. I'd assumed that this is because the calibre 899 is made to fit smaller watches (e.g. the 40mm Master Control Date). There isn't a great deal to look at back there compared to watches with more complications (including the Memovox) but I think what is there is nicely finished. As you say, though, everyone has different expectations.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

54B said:


> Thanks for the update. It's good to hear about your experience even if it wasn't what you expected.
> 
> Some of what you experienced sounds a bit odd if I've understood correctly.
> 
> ...


Hi again,
thanks for your reply - a nice discussion about this watch from JLC by the way.
It is a little bit difficult to explain what a meant regarding the Minute and Second hand, but I try it again.
When I want to set the time, I first pull out the crown. In the best case, when the second hand should stop at 12 o'clock.
With other watch brands, such as Rolex, IWC, GS, Omega, Breitling, AP, Balncpain, etc., all of which I own, the second hand does not move at all when I pull out the crown to set the time.
On the Polaris Marine Date the second hand moves when turning the minute hand.(five seconds plus/minus forwards or backwards when moving the minute hand)

That is, the second hand did not continue to run, but moved whenever I wanted to manually set the minutes to the current time.
I hope I have now expressed myself more understandably.

In addition, if you then, when you push the crown in, unfortunately, the minute hand also moved briefly and so made an accurate time setting on the respective indices impossible.
The dealer is an Official JLC Concessionaire and no, it was not a prototype. I would have bought the watch even if there were not these technical flaws.
The saleswoman said that she had also noticed that the inner bezel with the markings did not meet the indices exactly, but also said that she could not imagine that this was a defect, because JLC would then certainly not have given this watch for sale.
As I said, a feedback from JLC is still open.

Coming back to your watch. How accurate is your Watch now, how long do you have the watch an did you ever do a messurement on a timegrapher?


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## 54B (Jan 6, 2016)

GSNewbie said:


> Hi again,
> thanks for your reply - a nice discussion about this watch from JLC by the way.
> It is a little bit difficult to explain what a meant regarding the Minute and Second hand, but I try it again.
> When I want to set the time, I first pull out the crown. In the best case, when the second hand should stop at 12 o'clock.
> ...


Hi, that's really clear, thanks.

The time setting feature still seems different to my watch. With mine, when I pull out the lower crown fully, the seconds hand stops straight away and it doesn't move whilst I adjust the minute hand. Similarly, the minute hand stays in place when I push the crown in.

Let's see what JLC say - it'll be interesting to hear if these differences are within their tolerances (I hope not!).

I must confess that I haven't put this watch (or any of my watches) on a timegrapher. I may look into that out of curiosity. I haven't noticed anything abnormal about the timekeeping on the PMD - it seems to keep time well but I can't say that with any precision.

Hopefully, things get straightened out with JLC!


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

54B said:


> Hi, that's really clear, thanks.
> 
> The time setting feature still seems different to my watch. With mine, when I pull out the lower crown fully, the seconds hand stops straight away and it doesn't move whilst I adjust the minute hand. Similarly, the minute hand stays in place when I push the crown in.
> 
> Let's see what JLC say - it'll be interesting to hear if these differences are within their tolerances (I hope not!).


I think, after a short phone call with the CC of JLC, that my experience with the Watch (inner bezel adjustment and time setting) is out of tolerance. But finally we will know it next week. 
I'll post it when I get the reply.
Funny that you are not looking how exakt your Watch is running. In a special area in Germany we say „Jeder Jeck ist anders" ?
But in general the Lady of the CC said that the expectation of JLC is, that the automatic movements should run within the COSC Standard.

Now you can check whenever you want?

Nice Weekend.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

*Update*:
As I just learned, the caliber 899ab has only a simple unidirectional winding.
This really gives me a headache as I suspect that the caliber winds worse, more inefficiently than the bidirectionally winding calibers.
What about the efficiency here?
I work in the office and therefore move during the day rather less😉


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## 54B (Jan 6, 2016)

GSNewbie said:


> *Update*:
> As I just learned, the caliber 899ab has only a simple unidirectional winding.
> This really gives me a headache as I suspect that the caliber winds worse, more inefficiently than the bidirectionally winding calibers.
> What about the efficiency here?
> I work in the office and therefore move during the day rather less?


I'm desk-based for a lot of the time. I haven't had any problems with the Polaris Mariner or my Master Calendar (calibre 866, which is also unidirectional). Both of my JLCs are on counter-clockwise winders with 800 turns per day when they're not being worn. Neither watch has stopped when on my wrist or on the winder. I know there are mixed views on winders - I'm just letting you know what I do in case it helps you form an impression of how the watches operate.

My Tudor BB58 Blue on the other hand (not literally!) frequently stops when I'm at my desk. However, I suspect that may be an issue with the movement, which I'll get checked out once my AD reopens post-lock down.



GSNewbie said:


> Funny that you are not looking how exakt your Watch is running. In a special area in Germany we say „Jeder Jeck ist anders" ?


Indeed! I keep thinking that I should time my watches, out of curiosity. However, as long as they are correct to within a few seconds when I put them on, I haven't felt the need to know precisely how well they operate. I have different expectations of different brands and, other than my Tudor (which I think has a flaw), they all operate in line with my expectations.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Basically, my experience with unidirectional winding calibers is anything but bad. 
My Breitling Evolution with ETA/Valjoux caliber 7750 has at least no problems with my everyday work and winds sufficiently.
On the other hand, my experience with calibers (bidirektional)from Omega is not so great, which means that my movement during the day is not really enough to generate anything close to full winding.
But even my Rolex DJ41 with the caliber 3235 needs a little more movement, but runs for me as a reference in terms of accuracy.
Here I had expected a higher efficiency based on the statements of Rolex compared to the 3135.
I test only at the beginning after purchase, whether all promises of the manufacturer are also kept by the movement (accuracy, power reserve), then it is also pretty much indifferent to me and I look only temporarily whether everything is still within the specifications. Over time, you have to be a little more relaxed with the power pattern, because the values are only snapshots and over time, of course, deviations can occur.
As I said in the first 8 weeks after the new acquisition, I look closely how the Watch performs.😉
I do have a watch winder too, two cubes. One is for my GO Senator Excellence Panoramadate Moonphase. Which needs the winder, because I‚m not willing to set every time the moonphase when I want to wear the watch😊
The other cube is for different models.

I'm looking forward to the feedback from JLC.

Until then, have a nice, sunny Sunday.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

I don't have any feedback from JLC yet, maybe it will take longer...

But I can now say with certainty that the defects I found in the watch at an official JLC concessionaire at the watch is definitely not the standard. These differences (inner bezel and moving second hand by setting the time with a complete pulled out crown) should not be a result of a 1000hour tested watch.
Questionable, however, how such a "gem" could leave the house of JLC?!


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

GSNewbie said:


> I don't have any feedback from JLC yet, maybe it will take longer...
> 
> But I can now say with certainty that the defects I found in the watch at an official JLC concessionaire at the watch is definitely not the standard. These differences (inner bezel and moving second hand by setting the time with a complete pulled out crown) should not be a result of a 1000hour tested watch.
> Questionable, however, how such a "gem" could leave the house of JLC?!


Well, every brand has lemons, even ALS and PP. Unidirectional winding system can actually be more efficient than some bidirectional systems, as IIRC there is take-up in the reverser of the latter, +/- some degrees, so activities like working at a desk may actually see greater efficiency with the uni.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

That‘s true, but makes ist not better that „lemons“ find the way to the dealer.
In my case the sales person was not sure, if it is a bug or feature

I‘ll go on with a nother official dealer and buy it of everything is o.k.
The video they sent me gives a good first impression👍


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## cybercat (Aug 8, 2013)

GSNewbie said:


> *Update*:
> As I just learned, the caliber 899ab has only a simple unidirectional winding.
> This really gives me a headache as I suspect that the caliber winds worse, more inefficiently than the bidirectionally winding calibers.
> What about the efficiency here?
> I work in the office and therefore move during the day rather less😉


Hi GSNewbie,

*"Many companies, including major movement authorities like JLC, say that their unidirectional winding systems are more efficient in the real world"*

Quite a complex issue with many factors involved, going back many decades - c.f. the experiments conducted by A.Schild in the 60's, & _"keep in mind that the bidirectional winders based on reversing gears come at a cost_" etc etc...

There's an interesting discussion thread on this from a few years ago :
All things being equal, how can a unidirectional winding be more efficient than bidirectional?

Hope that helps ...

Will.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Hi, thanks for the link.
As I said before, I do have a watch with an ETA/Valjoux Caliber 7750, which is unidirectional and it winds more efficient than, for example Caliber 8500 or 8900 from Omega.
I learned today that there are some more things that influences the efficiency of a caliber than only the question of the winding system.


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

cybercat said:


> Hi GSNewbie,
> 
> *"Many companies, including major movement authorities like JLC, say that their unidirectional winding systems are more efficient in the real world"*
> 
> ...


I read that JLC performed a study of their own and determined that, based on their real-life test scenarios, their uni-directional winding system performs better than bi-directional winding system. At least that's how they made the design choice in their tractor movement 975H, based on what I read. Similar to the 975H, the 899/ab also includes ceramic ball bearings for the rotor which should improve the winding efficiency. I have no winding issues with mine (no scientific comparison, but based on my experience it winds more efficiently than the ETA 2892-A2 on my IWC).


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## WhiskeyTengu (Jul 15, 2019)

GSNewbie said:


> I don't have any feedback from JLC yet, maybe it will take longer...
> 
> But I can now say with certainty that the defects I found in the watch at an official JLC concessionaire at the watch is definitely not the standard. These differences (inner bezel and moving second hand by setting the time with a complete pulled out crown) should not be a result of a 1000hour tested watch.
> Questionable, however, how such a "gem" could leave the house of JLC?!


Why is the assumption that the defect is an escape from JLC, when there are so many variables once it leaves their factory?

While 1000 hr testing is a wonderful assurance, I don't see anywhere in the specs of this watch or the 1000hr testing to suggest that very hard impacts to the watch, or some other form of handling negligence by anyone transporting the watch or those who work for the AD (people aren't perfect), are supposed to be able to survive without issue?

Watches are not impervious, unless they are built for those things like a G-Shock or certain Richard Mille models.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

There is no reason to assume that the obvious discrepancies I have found here, and which have been confirmed by the dealer, are defects that could have occurred due to improper use, or even during transport from the manufacturer to the dealer.
For me, a far-fetched and adventurous assumption.
Especially with regard to the alignment of the inner bezel, this should definitely have been noticed during the final inspection, if there is such a thing!
But also in the context of a functional test, which is certainly given in the context of the 1000 hour test, it should have been noticed here that something is not running on the movement, as it is hopefully standard at JLC.
Basically, however, it is true that people are everywhere and mistakes can happen, even may.
But what claim do JLC want to make against themself with the communication of the 1000-hour test, if obvious defects are not even detected?

Everyone deserves a second chance, so I will look at the model again at another dealer and, in addition to the exact test, also pay attention to an impeccable service of the dealer.

Update from JLC Today:
For JLC it is within their tolerance that the inner bezel is not in the line with the hour markings
The topic with the moving second hand needs to be clarified by JLC. Therefore the Local dealer is asked to send the Watch back to JLC. The second Hand should not move or jump while setting time.


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## 54B (Jan 6, 2016)

GSNewbie said:


> For JLC it is within their tolerance that the inner bezel is not in the line with the hour markings


I was not expecting that! It's just not in line with (sorry!) what I expect from a JLC. I may have to stick my head in the sand I pretend I didn't read this.



GSNewbie said:


> Funny that you are not looking how exakt your Watch is running


This has been playing on my mind and I thought I really should check it. I haven't done anything particularly scientific but just looked at the time difference over 24 hours. Based on one 24 hour period, my PMD is running -3 sec/day.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

54B said:


> I was not expecting that! It's just not in line with (sorry!) what I expect from a JLC. I may have to stick my head in the sand I pretend I didn't read this.


You can't imagine what I thought when I read this official statement. Better I keep my lips sealed?
I have confronted with this statement the dealer, who has put back for me the Polaris Mariner Date, he was equally shocked and has promised to contact JLC again here.
Maybe I will get another official letter.
Until then, I let my fingers from JLC, even if the watchmaker master said that JLC is the highest craftsmanship.
With the statement and my impression of the Polaris Mariner Date presented, I find it hard to believe that.
I'll stay tuned and be patient for a new feedback from JLC.

My expectations are clearly better for this caliber, but above all positive. A follow-up does not work at all and is avoided by the manufacturers as part of the reglage.
However, can still run in and within the COSC standard, if you want to use this for comparison, it would still be in the green area.


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## dchang81 (Aug 9, 2015)

they're taking a page from seiko with the markers not lining up. nice looking watch but i've had issues with the service center in the US which soured me from the brand, otherwise would be interested.


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

GSNewbie said:


> You can't imagine what I thought when I read this official statement. Better I keep my lips sealed?
> I have confronted with this statement the dealer, who has put back for me the Polaris Mariner Date, he was equally shocked and has promised to contact JLC again here.
> Maybe I will get another official letter.
> Until then, I let my fingers from JLC, even if the watchmaker master said that JLC is the highest craftsmanship.
> ...


Yea, I'm a little stunned to hear that mis-aligned inner bezel is within their tolerance. Will look forward to hearing your follow up on this.


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## Porsche993 (Jan 6, 2017)

Where's your reference that the movement is unidirectional? The cal 751G in my MC Sector dial Chrono is bidirectional.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

If you don't trust what I write here, then ask JLC.
For those who have installed the caliber in another model, I can tell you that JLC specifies that the watch winder should be set for a counterclockwise winding of 900 rotations.
I mean there is even an overview where you can see for your respective caliber whether it is one-sided or two-sided.
winding. Maybe I can still find it, then I link.
Here you go:





Watch Winder Setting for JAEGER-LECOULTRE Watches - TPD & Winding Direction


How to set your watch winder for JAEGER-LECOULTRE watches? Find recomended TPD and winding direction.




watch-winder.store


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

dak_la said:


> Yea, I'm a little stunned to hear that mis-aligned inner bezel is within their tolerance. Will look forward to hearing your follow up on this.


Hello,
short interim update.
I will probably get another official feedback this week, at the end of the week.
Let's see if I can then build on it and possibly buy the watch.
One more hint.
According to the concessionaire, delivery of the model is only on customer order and who has not yet ordered, must just wait until the middle of the year.
I think JLC wants to make itself even more desirable than they think they are😉


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Hello again,

I now have the final statement from JLC and have to say that I am massively disappointed.
The content of the letter reads like an advertising brochure from JLC. The content of the experienced and sighted was only addressed in one sentence. In terms of meaning, this is probably a regrettable individual case that should not allow any conclusions to be drawn about what quality actually leaves the company.
Well, that may be. But I have at least justified doubts and even more, this 0815 advertising letter mocks me in my opinion as a critical customer. Since one may nevertheless surely assume that if I deal with the watches of JLC, surely me also their 1000 hours test is known - about which one knows so much content...
No, I'm out with it at JLC.
All the others I like to keep my fingers crossed that one has a happier hand here with the brand.


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## ajw45 (Apr 24, 2019)

GSNewbie said:


> Hello again,
> 
> I now have the final statement from JLC and have to say that I am massively disappointed.
> The content of the letter reads like an advertising brochure from JLC. The content of the experienced and sighted was only addressed in one sentence. In terms of meaning, this is probably a regrettable individual case that should not allow any conclusions to be drawn about what quality actually leaves the company.
> ...


Sorry to hear this! Can you provide any more details on JLC's response? I just received back one of my JLCs after over a year going back and forth (sold it immediately upon return) and am contemplating selling my remaining JLC as well....


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Hello, the experience described here is my experience with JLC. 
I can well imagine that there are also satisfied customers/wearers of JLC watches.
Also, I think the service is different in Europe and other parts of the world, e.g. USA, Canada, etc.
What is disappointing is that in my opinion, JLC believes they can successfully retain customers or acquire new customers with 1000h of test chatter without valid facts and figures and this kind of quality leaving the house.
If I would post here the letters of JLC, it is little use in my opinion, because firstly in German, and secondly it is about a concrete process , which does not allow any fundamental conclusions.
You are welcome to write me what you would like to hear in concrete terms. But I think that my description reflects the process very well.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

dak_la said:


> Yea, I'm a little stunned to hear that mis-aligned inner bezel is within their tolerance. Will look forward to hearing your follow up on this.


So what do you think finally about JLC?!


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

To be honest, I am already disappointed by the people who initially show interest in my contribution and, according to their own statements, are eager to see the outcome of the matter and then no feedback.
In a conversation where someone tells you, "I'd be happy to hear how it turned out for you," you don't just leave people standing there - at least not me.


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## ajw45 (Apr 24, 2019)

GSNewbie said:


> To be honest, I am already disappointed by the people who initially show interest in my contribution and, according to their own statements, are eager to see the outcome of the matter and then no feedback.
> In a conversation where someone tells you, "I'd be happy to hear how it turned out for you," you don't just leave people standing there - at least not me.


Disappointed with the watch disappointed with the brand, disappointed with WUS members, sounds like you are disappointed often. Hopefully you're used to it by now.
I asked for more details on JLC's response, you told me you had posted all their was to be said. You didn't provide a resolution, you didn't say if that is within spec for JLC, you didn't say if there was an apology or new watch offered. You didn't buy the watch as far as I can see, you were not wronged in any way. If you want a shoulder to cry on or other wus members to fire up the torches and pitchforks you going to need a little more than that.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Funny feedback, especially since I had not addressed you explicitly, but everyone pulls the shoe on which it fits.
More than what JLC is willing to say, or, better not to say, I have posted here. So there are no "more details" - apparently hard to understand. But I'm sure anyone who has taken the trouble to scrutinize the 1000 hour test more closely, to get numbers, data and facts, will know where the cause of the sparse information lies here.
Whether defects as described by me, with the corresponding statement of the manufacturer is now really within the tolerance, you must then probably ask final the manufacturer. As far as I'm concerned, and at least here we agree, this quality of manufacturing is rather outside what I expect from such a manufacturer, may expect.
On the subject of crying out.
Can you imagine that the forums are full of people who are from the manufacturer, from the dealer, or pursue other financial interests?
Maybe you'd rather read about them?
If you start a conversation, at least that's how I learned it, you should then also lead it to the end and answer questions or queries.
To you specifically, aren't you the one who was also so disappointed in JLC after back and forth and even sold his watches, or think about it? Or did I got something wrong?
What sense does such a statement made if you are interested in a discussion to exchange experiences?
All questions were answered by me, so it's not my problem if the manufacturer does not deliver here (in the figurative sense).
The dealer has done nothing since then and is out.
According to the image of quality and service, of course, the manufacturer is also out, but you know that yes😉


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

GSNewbie said:


> To be honest, I am already disappointed by the people who initially show interest in my contribution and, according to their own statements, are eager to see the outcome of the matter and then no feedback.
> In a conversation where someone tells you, "I'd be happy to hear how it turned out for you," you don't just leave people standing there - at least not me.


Not sure if you were referring to me as I saw your question but I honestly don't know how to answer your question. I'm sorry about your experience with JLC but I don't have a very clear picture of what happened. I also don't know how bad the misalignment is, everything I got so far is from your description. To be clear, I don't doubt what you said. But it sounds like you weren't particularly happy with JLC from the beginning, and since then you have been pretty harsh to the brand. 
My experience with JLC wasn't bad. My JLC runs extremely well (+1 per day) for the last 10 years, and I didn't find any fault in my watch either. So while I'm sympathetic to you, I'm not sure hearing your experience alone would completely changed my perspective of the brand. If I keep hearing stories like this though, it might.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Thanks for your reply.
I would also have liked to buy a JLC, but in my case the manufacturer has shown how far apart aspiration and reality are.
Now I buy a GS SLGA001 today and the dealer provides me with the service that one can expect.
With JLC dealer and manufacturer has failed.


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## fezz (Apr 28, 2020)

GSNewbie said:


> To be honest, I am already disappointed by the people who initially show interest in my contribution and, according to their own statements, are eager to see the outcome of the matter and then no feedback.
> In a conversation where someone tells you, "I'd be happy to hear how it turned out for you," you don't just leave people standing there - at least not me.


I thought we were all still waiting for the update. The thread is a bit confusing, as you didn't really tell us what they said or did. Did I miss something?


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

How can I judge if you are missing something?
In my texts on the dialogue with JLC. They are obviously not capable of anything more. 
Therefore, the communicated contents are unsatisfactory, even incomplete, not only for you.
But since I am neither the manufacturer nor do I work there, I and therefore you must unfortunately live with this unsatisfactory state of affairs.
I could of course also publish the German text here, only the translation would possibly not be so great and would also have no other statement to the content than what I have already written.
Now everything clear?


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## firefly0071 (Jun 24, 2018)

It is a confusing thread other than stating JLC is not perfect manufacturer and the service is not 100 percent.


Best to delete this post. It is of no use to a third party potentially buying a JLC watch.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

I would agree with you in principle.
Unfortunately, it is the manufacturer that not only puts its 1000 hours of tests in the spotlight over and over again, but also its final inspection where optics and function are supposedly tested and checked by a specialist.
It makes more than sense to point out that all these promises are not so far off. Based on my experience, I cannot confirm that this is an isolated case. Also, and this is the point here, it is crucial how a manufacturer deals with justified criticism and disclosure of defects.
And here JLC failed.
And there is a use for a third party. 
They now know what they can possibly expect.


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## fezz (Apr 28, 2020)

GSNewbie said:


> How can I judge if you are missing something?
> In my texts on the dialogue with JLC. They are obviously not capable of anything more.
> Therefore, the communicated contents are unsatisfactory, even incomplete, not only for you.
> But since I am neither the manufacturer nor do I work there, I and therefore you must unfortunately live with this unsatisfactory state of affairs.
> ...


To be honest, your posts are difficult to understand, sometimes nearly indecipherable. I didn't realize you weren't an English speaker, so it may simply be a language problem . From the perspective of a native English speaker, it's not at all clear that you've shared communications from JLC.

Please don't be annoyed with us. We are JLC watch owners who are interested in your situation, but we simply can't understand what you're trying to say.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

No, why should I be upset. 
I agree that JLC builds beautiful watches and certainly, otherwise they would not sell watches, are also a large part defekt-free.
As I tried to describe, the presented watch had defects - can happen.
However, the handling on the part of JLC is greatly in need of improvement and has driven me away from the brand.
If there are specific requests, which is difficult to understand, I will be happy to try again. Although I have only reproduced here the content of what JLC said about it.
And yes, English is not my first language, but also did not know that it is so bad about my language skills😉


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## WhiskeyTengu (Jul 15, 2019)

OP,

You seem to keep blaming JLC. You refer to it as an official JLC concessionaire, I have no clue what that means...in English we call it an Authorized Dealer if it is not an official JLC Boutique. Does the possibility exist that the AD store actually mishandled this watch, possibly broke it, but weren't perceptive enough to realize what happened until you noticed it?

I'm sorry but I wouldn't put it past people in a store who make mistakes. People are human, and would rather try to sell a watch with a defect than pay for what they broke especially during tough times like a Pandemic where there is fewer people coming by, and possibly less sales.

It's more likely that an accident happened at this specific Jewler than a mistake this blatant escaped JLC's Quality Control.

I would suggest trying a different store or even an actual JLC boutique one day and see if the quality and service are better than what this one store, who is obviously not a JLC boutique, has offerred you.

Your experience is tremendously biased by what appears to be a one off and not a systemic issue.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Thank you for your comment.
There is no difference between AD (authorized dealer) and concessionaire as far as I know. The term concessionaire is probably more of a legal term because the business relationship between the dealer and the manufacturer is based on a concession.
From my first report on the experience with the AD/concessionaire, I had reported that he even assumed that this defect was well within the tolerances at JLC and still wanted to ask JLC. In parallel, I had asked JLC directly and described my experience with this one watch.
Later, I reported, JLC informed me that the defects I had found were within the tolerances, at least as far as the position of the bezel was concerned.
Another AD/concessionaire who had this model in stock said that he could not imagine that this is the quality one could expect from JLC.
A statement from JLC was nothing more than an advertising message for me, without going into details. One however assured that JLC delivered quality...
Well, everyone can thus make up his own mind.
My experience is my experience and has nothing to do with bias.
I have due to two diametrically running statements from the same manufacturer just no satisfactory for me, confidence-inspiring, confidence-recovering message received.
Customer Care as he apparently lives at least in my case, JLC.
As I already wrote, I am quite of the opinion that JLC builds great watches, of course also not error-free. What matters is how this manufacturer handles such tasks.


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