# Laco vs Stowa



## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi there,

I have been thinking about adding a German FLIEGER to my collection. Don't know much about Laco or Stowa yet but I am working on it. 

I would like to get your thoughts. They styles are similar but Laco seems to be a little cheaper. How is the quality? What is your experience? Stowa seems to use ETA and Laco seems to make their ow movement. Am I right? 

Would love to hear your recommendations?

Thank you and happy holidays!


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## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

I meat Stowa ... Darm autocorrect!


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Laco does not make or use movements made in-house. Laco watches feature standard ETA or Miyota movements, all explained on our Laco forum.

Title edited.

Laco vs. Stowa is a recurring issue, just do a search and flick through all these threads. Here's just one, randomly chosen: https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/stowa-vs-laco-flieger-type-b-672432-post4901977.html#post4901977


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## swatch_crotch (Dec 12, 2014)

Stowa for the quality and history.


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## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

Thank you!


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

If it is in the budget, I would opt for the Stowa...


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## psbero (Sep 26, 2014)

I went for the Stowa. It has much nicer finishing imo


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

I would favor the Stowa as well, but Laco does have some nice models too, so really just a personal preference.


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## omeglycine (Jan 21, 2011)

If historical ties aren't a deciding factor, you should also consider Archimede and potentially Tourby, depending on budget.


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## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

omeglycine said:


> If historical ties aren't a deciding factor, you should also consider Archimede and potentially Tourby, depending on budget.


Omeglycine, thanks for the feedback.

Suggestions of other German brands are totally welcome. I would like to add a German watch to my collection. I already have Swiss, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish & British. My current budget is ~$1000 - $1200 ... For now. 

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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

mcotignola said:


> Omeglycine, thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Suggestions of other German brands are totally welcome. I would like to add a German watch to my collection. I already have Swiss, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish & British. My current budget is ~$1000 - $1200 ... For now.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You'd get a greater amount of German value out of the suggested Archimede option as the case, crown, and (available) custom rotor are all manufactured in-house. Would be the way I'd go, and indeed did. Even with some customization, a great deal of money will be kept in pocket.


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## james walters (Jul 11, 2015)

They are both exquisite options, but it would be Stowa for me


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## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

Any thoughts on Limes and Guinand? I like the looks 


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

mcotignola said:


> Any thoughts on Limes and Guinand? I like the looks
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Limes is another brand of the Ickler family. You can expect the same excellent product as you'd get from their Archimede line, only with greater details.

Guinand is under new management and is making a comeback presently. Their products in the past were said to be of excellent quality.


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## sucram (Jun 18, 2014)

My vote is for the Stowa. A bit more money, a lot more watch.


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## dinkerson (Mar 2, 2014)

sucram said:


> My vote is for the Stowa. A bit more money, a lot more watch.


+1 to that. Of the options mentioned, I'd go with the Stowa too. Archimede watches are fantastic value, but if you have the budget (and it seems like you do), the Stowa is a nicer overall watch (superior hands, dial, movement, crystals). Worth the extra few hundred dollars if you're fairly certain you'll be keeping it a while.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

Budget friendly LACOs uses Miyotas for sure... and those are not high-beat movements to talk about.
Stowa is slowly moving towards Sellitas. So... if you come across any model powered by ETA, your choice.


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## alsothis1 (Jan 24, 2010)

CM HUNTER said:


> You'd get a greater amount of German value out of the suggested Archimede option as the case, crown, and (available) custom rotor are all manufactured in-house. Would be the way I'd go, and indeed did. Even with some customization, a great deal of money will be kept in pocket.


Hello CM, I was also thinking of the Archimede. Would you have a photo that would make my decision for the Archimede easier?


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## Revan (Apr 9, 2013)

nguyen.hung.levis said:


> I would prefer Stowa, long history and well-finished


Laco (Lacher & Co), founded 1925

Stowa, founded 1927


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## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

Revan said:


> Laco (Lacher & Co), founded 1925
> 
> Stowa, founded 1927




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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

alsothis1 said:


> Hello CM, I was also thinking of the Archimede. Would you have a photo that would make my decision for the Archimede easier?











People talk about Stowa dials being nicer, but I think you'd be hard pressed to see a significant difference between the Stowa and Archimede dials. The Archimede case however is a noticeable notch higher.

If you don't need a top grade movement (rather one better regulated out of the box), or need a domed crystal (when a flat inner AR coated one works just fine), or flame blued hands (trade off for other details like a signed crown and greater wrist presence), then the Ickler offering is one hell of a buy. **Bonus for not having to be a part of the controversy of where your watch case is made.


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## dinkerson (Mar 2, 2014)

Side-by-side of Stowa and Archimede dials:








The difference is more apparent in real life, but I think you can see in the photo well enough. Printing on the Archie dial just isn't quite as crisp, and the C3 compound used for the indices and numerals doesn't match that used for the hands. Stowa dial is very crisp and uses a whiter C3 compound while achieving equal or better lume.

Starkest difference is the hands though:














Archimede makes a great case and crown.


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## Heljestrand (Oct 26, 2014)

Whatever you choose among the two (or three!?!)...you are headed in the right direction!


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## TgeekB (Nov 1, 2015)

CM HUNTER said:


> You'd get a greater amount of German value out of the suggested Archimede option as the case, crown, and (available) custom rotor are all manufactured in-house. Would be the way I'd go, and indeed did. Even with some customization, a great deal of money will be kept in pocket.


I just ordered an Archimede klassik 39. They look like they make beautiful watches and have heard nothing but positive things.

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## alsothis1 (Jan 24, 2010)

CM HUNTER said:


> View attachment 6481297
> 
> 
> People talk about Stowa dials being nicer, but I think you'd be hard pressed to see a significant difference between the Stowa and Archimede dials. The Archimede case however is a noticeable notch higher.
> ...


Thank you CM. I am very happy with the dial of my Archimede Sporttaucher and have no concern with the dial. If I can fault my Sporttaucher at all, it may be the hands which dinkerson also mentions in his post. On your photo though I think the hands are actually looking quite ok. As you I like that Ickler is making more parts themselves which for me adds to the appeal of Archimede.


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## madmars (Dec 6, 2013)

I own a superb LACO wind up with Eta 2801, B-UHR type, 42mm Case, very accurate and gorgeous. Had a chance to compare it to Archimede , Stowa and Tourby.
I was unhappy with the Tourby( it was not the Pilot model) ....hands were loose, almost out of the cannon pinion after a few days....


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## gaopa (Dec 6, 2008)

A few months back I bought a Laco ROM and am very happy with it. It looks good, wears well and keeps good time. For the money, I find it hard to beat.


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## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

gaopa said:


> A few months back I bought a Laco ROM and am very happy with it. It looks good, wears well and keeps good time. For the money, I find it hard to beat.


Very, very nice!!!

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## TgeekB (Nov 1, 2015)

I like both!


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## mreyman73 (Mar 6, 2013)

gaopa said:


> A few months back I bought a Laco ROM and am very happy with it. It looks good, wears well and keeps good time. For the money, I find it hard to beat.


Yes, very nice indeed. I like the looks of this watch on the bracelet. I also like the shape of the crown.


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## tylerad1 (Feb 1, 2009)

Having owned both a Stowa and an Archimede, I would go Archimede over Stowa every time. Better value and no noticeable difference between the two


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## soaking.fused (May 3, 2012)

Both make great watches. I have really enjoyed the communication and level of service from Jörg at Stowa over the years.


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## Bub838 (Dec 20, 2012)

I've owned Stowa, Laco and Archimede. I rank the Archimede last, it costs less but did not feel/look as well finished as the Stowa. I believe Stowa was the best and if I opted for a pilot watch again it'll probably be from Stowa. 

BUT, if you're looking for a more "historical" case, the Laco all day.


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

I used to own a Laco Friedrichaffen and loved it. The finish was perfect so were the blue heated hands. Loved the grey case and the 'historical' look. The lume was unbelievable, in par with Seiko divers.
I now own a Tourby big pilot and love it. Dont forget tourby pilots, they are great too.


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## jayabharath (Aug 23, 2014)

Go with stowa - I think you won't regret it


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## bruno47 (Nov 12, 2012)

Stowa any day. A bit off topic: I really wish Stowa could make a 40m flieger ith screw Down Crown and 100 m WR. Also i wuldlike a solid caseback. There is realy nothing to see anyways.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Why wr 100m ? A Flieger's sphere of activity is the air not water.


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## Bradjhomes (Jun 18, 2011)

stuffler said:


> Why wr 100m ? A Flieger's sphere of activity is the air not water.


True

If you need 100m water resistance as a pilot then you're doing it wrong.


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## omeglycine (Jan 21, 2011)

stuffler said:


> Why wr 100m ? A Flieger's sphere of activity is the air not water.


Agreed. Although the Classic Sport line offers 200M WR. It seems to be a feature non-pilots like, and signifies there are many who use their Fliegers as everyday, do anything sports watches.


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## Codemonkeyx (Jul 16, 2013)

I have an Archimede pilot chrono. I debated between that, a Laco and Stowa. The Archimede promised a solid, work-horse movement in the ETA/Valjoux, and a well-made case , dial, hands, and domed sapphire crystal, all made in-house. The design is spot-on and the finish is quite good; I have no issues with it. The function is flawless, running about +6/day. I would definitely buy another Archimede pilot chrono because it ticked several boxes for me that the Stowa and Laco did not. However, were I to just be buying a B-Uhr, I would probably get the Stowa.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

I don't understand why people who want a B uhr should get Archimede or Stowa that looks nothing like the real B-uhren.

It's like buying a IWC pilot over and Hanhart because you think the former is more accurate.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

stuffler said:


> Why wr 100m ? A Flieger's sphere of activity is the air not water.


Doesn't stop Sinn from making their pilot watches 200m wr.


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## BigBoss0311 (Sep 16, 2015)

yeah, but what if you have to bail out?........... lol


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## janiboi (Apr 18, 2014)

I got the Stowa and my wife opted for Laco.
From the two, the Stowa gets the edge.
I own Ickler's "better" brands watch (i.e. a Limes) and I have owned several Stowa's and I think both are exceptional watches.

If someone says Archimede just blows Stowa away, I like to disagree.
If You have the funds, get a Stowa!


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## mreyman73 (Mar 6, 2013)

janiboi said:


> I got the Stowa and my wife opted for Laco.
> From the two, the Stowa gets the edge.
> I own Ickler's "better" brands watch (i.e. a Limes) and I have owned several Stowa's and I think both are exceptional watches.
> 
> ...


Your wife wears a B dial Flieger? That's rad!


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## janiboi (Apr 18, 2014)

mreyman73 said:


> Your wife wears a B dial Flieger? That's rad!


She likes it a lot and it's the Laco Oslo (only 36mm) and is ideal for the ladies!


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## bracque (Jul 27, 2013)

I am in the market and love german watches. I have a sinn and damasko, and find myself drawn to the stowa contemporary flieger, with the rubber strap. I love their regular flieger, but i am a big fan of rubber straps and deployant clasps, and the contemporary flieger looks like gold on these.


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## janiboi (Apr 18, 2014)

bracque said:


> I am in the market and love german watches. I have a sinn and damasko, and find myself drawn to the stowa contemporary flieger, with the rubber strap. I love their regular flieger, but i am a big fan of rubber straps and deployant clasps, and the contemporary flieger looks like gold on these.


It's a great looking watch, but of course different looking compared to the classic Fliegers. I would go for it, but the 54,5mm lug-to-lug just kills it for me and you need wrists like tree stumps to pull it off.


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## bracque (Jul 27, 2013)

janiboi said:


> It's a great looking watch, but of course different looking compared to the classic Fliegers. I would go for it, but the 54,5mm lug-to-lug just kills it for me and you need wrists like tree stumps to pull it off.


Website says lug to lug is 51. I have a 44mm oris day date and a 44mm sinn 856, althought lug to lug on this one is 49. My wrists are a bit under 7 and no issues. I agree that lug to lug can't really go beyond 50 and thickness should be 13 ish.


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## janiboi (Apr 18, 2014)

bracque said:


> Website says lug to lug is 51. I have a 44mm oris day date and a 44mm sinn 856, althought lug to lug on this one is 49. My wrists are a bit under 7 and no issues. I agree that lug to lug can't really go beyond 50 and thickness should be 13 ish.


I see, I thought we were talking about the Flieger 101 TESTAF. You were talking about the TO2 and that's a great looking watch too!


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## Gerrard8 (Jun 7, 2015)

If only, if only, this post is a bit earlier. Of course, even I saw this before. I may or may not appreciate this opinion at that moment.
But, after I went through a steep learning curve, here is the truth. I somehow rediscovered.

What is the point of top ETA, if it is +8s day, while a standard one is within +4s per day. It is just a trick then, a way to add profit for the watch assembling company only.

I do not like heat blued hands on tool watch at all, too subtle to be my cup of tea. It is nice on the purposely shown pictures, rarely happen in real life. I have to try hard to find an angle, and some decent light. Why should I do that in a hard way? On the other side, I think Damasko made it right with DA38's vivid (specially) painted blue.

I like the case design (the lug shape, and the bezel holding the glass) and case quality shown in the figure below, also like the crown shape and the sign on it.


CM HUNTER said:


> View attachment 6481297
> 
> 
> People talk about Stowa dials being nicer, but I think you'd be hard pressed to see a significant difference between the Stowa and Archimede dials. The Archimede case however is a noticeable notch higher.
> ...


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## sefrcoko (Dec 23, 2015)

Gerrard8 said:


> If only, if only, this post is a bit earlier. Of course, even I saw this before. I may or may not appreciate this opinion at that moment.
> But, after I went through a steep learning curve, here is the truth. I somehow rediscovered.
> 
> What is the point of top ETA, if it is +8s day, while a standard one is within +4s per day. It is just a trick then, a way to add profit for the watch assembling company only.
> ...


Something for everyone I suppose. For me the Stowa is a cut above Archimede in terms of quality. Hands down.


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## michael8238 (Sep 13, 2015)

I'd get the Laco version as its more true to the original and cheaper, even though the Stowa one has a more decorated movement.


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## Wysie (Sep 18, 2011)

As much as I enjoy the Stowa Flieger, I've come to realize that they're neither here nor there (neither too toolish nor too dressy). It is very versatile, but I very much prefer a watch that does one thing well, and this "issue" is recently compounded by the Sinn, Damasko (toolish) and Grand Seiko (dressy) joining my collection.

I actually miss my Laco Paderborn as it has a far more toolish look, which I think is more appropriate for fliegers.

Another thing I'd like to add is that in most Stowa vs Laco comparisons I've seen, it is quite often to see a more affordable version of Laco's fliegers (such as the Tokio, etc.) being used against Stowa's fliegers, instead of the better range from Laco such as the Leipzig and the Paderborn, so the comparisons are not really apples to apples in the first place.


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## janiboi (Apr 18, 2014)

Wysie said:


> As much as I enjoy the Stowa Flieger, I've come to realize that they're neither here nor there (neither too toolish nor too dressy). It is very versatile, but I very much prefer a watch that does one thing well, and this "issue" is recently compounded by the Sinn, Damasko (toolish) and Grand Seiko (dressy) joining my collection.
> 
> I actually miss my Laco Paderborn as it has a far more toolish look, which I think is more appropriate for fliegers.
> 
> Another thing I'd like to add is that in most Stowa vs Laco comparisons I've seen, it is quite often to see a more affordable version of Laco's fliegers (such as the Tokio, etc.) being used against Stowa's fliegers, instead of the better range from Laco such as the Leipzig and the Paderborn, so the comparisons are not really apples to apples in the first place.


I like to disagree, but luckily we have these two brands (and many more German brands), so there are nice Fliegers to scratch all the different type on itches


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## briang583 (Mar 25, 2014)

I have had a good number of german watches (I live in southern Germany) and I would rate the pilot type watches discussed in this thread so far like this in terms of how well I thought they were finished. Just my opinion guys go easy on me 😃.... stowa, damasko, archimede, tourby, guinand, laco. But, please also check out the new sinn b uhr, its sweet!

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## soaking.fused (May 3, 2012)

I really love both for what are are. Great options in each range.


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## arvinsign_nyc (May 23, 2016)

I have the Laco Munster Flieger Type A with ETA 2824, 42mm. One of my favorite in my watch collection. Still running -2s/ day after 4 years. I am also on the market for a Stowa Type B Flieger.

In my opinion, Laco is closer to the original Fliegers except for size used during the war, and its one of the reasons why i chose it over Stowa or any other brands. I also felt like historically, they have a better one than the others. 

But now i am looking to buy a Stowa Type B dial. The main reason is i want to use it in a more or less casual way with its size and aesthetics. 


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Valid points !


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## Soulspawn (Sep 18, 2012)

stuffler said:


> Valid points !


That Flieger looks fantastic. Excuse the ignorance, but what model laco is that pls?

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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Soulspawn said:


> That Flieger looks fantastic. Excuse the ignorance, but what model laco is that pls?


LACO Leipzig Erbstück. You'll find a review om our Laco Forum.


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## Soulspawn (Sep 18, 2012)

stuffler said:


> LACO Leipzig Erbstück. You'll find a review om our Laco Forum.


Thanks

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