# Garmin Fenix VS Suunto Ambit2



## bigwave

What os the advantages of the Fenix on the new Ambit2? 
What do you think?


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## Mystro

Its no contest. I have owned the Ambit for a year now and know it inside and out. the Fenix trounces the new Suunto on every level. The Fenix has unlimited alarms, count down timer, altitude and time is GPS synch, base maps. Even as a ABC watch the Fenix outshines the Ambit. The barometer graph is better to predict weather and shows minor changes more clearly over a 48hour time, temp graph, altimeter graph, sunrise/sunset/moon phase, best hunting/fishing forecast, multiple time displays. The Fenix doesn't need any proprietary software to work. It is recognized as a storage device by your computer like any handheld GPS devise. This means you can use any 3rd party mapping programs like Google Earth. Bread crumb back tracking at any time. Best of all the Fenix can be used as a independent piece of gear in the field and you can change anything you want on the devise without the need for a computer. The entire layout of the Fenix is totally adjustable. You can have as little or as many features as you like. Even the menu order can be changed. GPS synch time is faster than the Ambit and the GPS tracking is much more accurate when transferring it to a map like Google Earth. Its also Bluetooth equipped. I just loaded my days info to my ipad a few minutes ago wirelessly and it only took a few seconds. You can use any 26mm strap, Vibration alarm, with or without tone, flash light feature, programmable hot buttons,etc.... The Fenix has so many options I couldn't begin to name them all. I am professionally field testing the Fenix and another GPS watch. Coming from the Ambit, the Fenix is in another league. After one day with the Fenix, i knew it was game, set , match Garmin Fenix. You could remove 1/3 of he features from the Fenix and after reading the specs of the new Ambit2, it appears the new Suunto Ambit2 will never catch up to the Garmin Fenix. In the do-it-all GPS watch category, Garmin's GPS prowess is very clear. Its probably a good idea the Suunto is now pushing its target demographic into the trainer watch niche. I have yet to test Garmin's HRM or external temp sensor so who knows, it might be a killer trainer watch as well????

Garmin could/might put a storm alarm on the Fenix just for spite.


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## submersible

Mystro said:


> Its no contest. I have owned the Ambit for a year now and know it inside and out. the Fenix trounces the new Suunto on every level. The Fenix has unlimited alarms, count down timer, altitude and time is GPS synch, base maps. Even as a ABC watch the Fenix outshines the Ambit. The barometer graph is better to predict weather and shows minor changes more clearly over a 48hour time, temp graph, altimeter graph, sunrise/sunset/moon phase, best hunting/fishing forecast, multiple time displays. ..... After one day with the Fenix, i knew it was game, set , match Garmin Fenix. You could remove 1/3 of he features from the Fenix and after reading the specs of the new Ambit2, it appears the new Suunto Ambit2 will never catch up to the Garmin Fenix. In the GPS watch category, Garmin's GPS prowess is very clear.


Agreed 100% I owned both the Ambit and the Fenix when it first appeared on the market. Initially I have my gripe over the accuracy of the Garmin after GPS synch -It loses about 5 secs... still does :-( If Garmin were to fix this . It will be the perfect watch...


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## Mystro

Interesting,...mine does not do this. I have been testing its time accuracy with and with out time synch and it has been spot on with Emerald Sequoia. My altitude synch has been excellent for a GPS measurement. I have set my Fenix to synch the altimeter reference only one time as soon as the GPS is activated instead of constantly adjusting it. It stays spot on even after bad thunderstorms which makes my barometer graph accuracy unpresidented to any ABC watch i have ever owned.


submersible said:


> I have my gripe over the accuracy of the Garmin after GPS synch -It loses about 5 secs...QUOTE]


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## submersible

Mystro said:


> Interesting,...mine does not do this. I have been testing its time accuracy with and with out time synch and it has been spot on with Emerald Sequoia. My altitude synch has been excellent for a GPS measurement. I have set my Fenix to synch the altimeter reference only one time as soon as the GPS is activated instead of constantly adjusting it. It stays spot on even after bad thunderstorms which makes my barometer graph accuracy unpresidented to any ABC watch i have ever owned.
> 
> 
> submersible said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have my gripe over the accuracy of the Garmin after GPS synch -It loses about 5 secs...QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> Falconeye and myself have aired this complaint for eons and no reply from Garmin. I believe this must be a software problem and they have resolved it quietly in the newer batches?. Probably both of us got a lemon? I have also reference to Emerald Sequoia after GPS synch its ok. After 1 day accuracy is out very drastically.
> I have been very patiently waitng for Garmin to solve this issue. Now I am at 3.20 update and still have the same problem.
> Perhaps you could asked them for a firmer answer? Thanks
Click to expand...


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## SavageSS

I think the views a very subjective. I bought an Ambit after using my friends Fenix. It has since he has had the Fenix issues with GPS sync, We would both go for a run at lunch during work, Ambit would get GPS sync in less than 30 seconds, his Fenix.... Well we'd give up after 5 mins.. And I'm not exaggerating, apparently and this is from his word of mouth, it's an issue and someone wrote a custom update which helped for a few weeks, but has got the issue yet again. Plus I need a watch that has MGRS and Mils for the compass, the Ambit has this. I'm not a one brand person, just get what does it for me. Also if you look there's a few complaints about the Fenix not able to connect with Garmin Connect mobile app or Garmin connect uploads in BaseCamp App. I do wish the Ambit2 implements Breadcrumb tracking, that is one thing I do believe the Fenix is a lot better at. Oh Also prefer the screen on the Ambit, I think it is of a higher resolution. Again, it's all depends what you want out of it


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## cue003

It depends on your use. If you want to swim and get stroke info etc then the fenix might have no advantage. I am trying to figure this out myself based on what I need in the device. Some things to me are cool and nice to have but I won't use such as the power meters on the ambit2 etc or fishing charts/times etc on the garmin.


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## icuriosity

Mystro said:


> Its no contest. I have owned the Ambit for a year now and know it inside and out. the Fenix trounces the new Suunto on every level. The Fenix has unlimited alarms, count down timer, altitude and time is GPS synch, base maps. Even as a ABC watch the Fenix outshines the Ambit. The barometer graph is better to predict weather and shows minor changes more clearly over a 48hour time, temp graph, altimeter graph, sunrise/sunset/moon phase, best hunting/fishing forecast, multiple time displays. The Fenix doesn't need any proprietary software to work. It is recognized as a storage device by your computer like any handheld GPS devise. This means you can use any 3rd party mapping programs like Google Earth. Bread crumb back tracking at any time. Best of all the Fenix can be used as a independent piece of gear in the field and you can change anything you want on the devise without the need for a computer. The entire layout of the Fenix is totally adjustable. You can have as little or as many features as you like. Even the menu order can be changed. GPS synch time is faster than the Ambit and the GPS tracking is much more accurate when transferring it to a map like Google Earth. Its also Bluetooth equipped. I just loaded my days info to my ipad a few minutes ago wirelessly and it only took a few seconds. You can use any 26mm strap, Vibration alarm, with or without tone, flash light feature, programmable hot buttons,etc.... The Fenix has so many options I couldn't begin to name them all. I am professionally field testing the Fenix and another GPS watch. Coming from the Ambit, the Fenix is in another league. After one day with the Fenix, i knew it was game, set , match Garmin Fenix. You could remove 1/3 of he features from the Fenix and after reading the specs of the new Ambit2, it appears the new Suunto Ambit2 will never catch up to the Garmin Fenix. In the do-it-all GPS watch category, Garmin's GPS prowess is very clear. Its probably a good idea the Suunto is now pushing its target demographic into the trainer watch niche. I have yet to test Garmin's HRM or external temp sensor so who knows, it might be a killer trainer watch as well????


+1 
Me too own both Ambit and Fenix and I agree with Mystro every word.

Furthermore, I have numbers of different watch straps and NATO straps you can easily find and replace to give the watch a fresh look - something you can't do with the Ambit.

I also have an external thermometer (Tempe) for more accurate temperature reading.

When reading reviews about the Fenix please check the date as to these days it has gone through many fw updates. The watch is now much more stable.


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## submersible

Did anyone check after upgrading the Fenix software to 3.2; GPS software version is 0.00? Any clue what is wrong? what shall b ethe GPS sofware be after upgrading to 3.2?

Thanks


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

To me, comparing Fenix and Ambit / Ambit2 is like comparing apples and oranges. Both fruit, uhm, GPS-equipped, but both oriented very differently.
Thus, as cue003 also said, it depends on the use.

Fenix: outdoors. Hikers, hunters, etc. Obviously a GPS device shrunk to fit on a wrist.
Ambit / Ambit2 (and finally, the 2S makes it obvious): ultrarunners, outdoors athletes, etc. A training GPS device moving towards being a smartwatch.


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## Guest

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Fenix Obviously a GPS device shrunk to fit on a wrist. Ambit / Ambit2 (and finally, the 2S makes it obvious): ultrarunners, outdoors athletes, etc. A training GPS device moving towards being a smartwatch.


grrr, so now I've to sell my ambit1 and buy a fenix just because I do not belong to superman category? 
for saving myself, I would add also:

i) ambit for enthusiast outdoor dudes who plays very well w/o bells and whistles


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

ihoannes said:


> grrr, so now I've to sell my ambit1 and buy a fenix just because I do not belong to superman category?
> for saving myself, I would add also:
> 
> i) ambit for enthusiast outdoor dudes who plays very well w/o bells and whistles


Or knowing how to work with map and compass when exploring, and why. Right you are.


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## pjc3

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Or knowing how to work with map and compass when exploring, and why. Right you are.


Surely a fenix makes a map obsolete ....it's all on the watch isn't it?


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## hippo

pjc3 said:


> Surely a fenix makes a map obsolete ....it's all on the watch isn't it?


Just my personal opinion, however, nothing makes a map and compass obsolete. As far as I'm concerned only a fool would totally rely on an electronic device.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

I think pjc3's comment was a liiittle tongue-in-cheek


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## hippo

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I think pjc3's comment was a liiittle tongue-in-cheek


Dam it, I missed that then....puts on dunce cap!!


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## byasini

Small map with low details!
I vote for Ambit a least Ambit was made more better. I mean yhe quality and yhe look. I really love my Ambit1. It completely shows how much I paid for it. 
I prefer to have my garmin 62s gps handset with my Ambit instead of Fenix. 
I will have faith in my Ambit1 if suunto still have fw upgtade. 


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Mystro

What do you mean low details??? All i do is leave the Fenix on the map screen for navigation. Everything you need is on the map screen for navigation. You can install any base map you want including a topo. There are lots of 3rd party free maps you can use. Once again this is why Garmin will always develop faster. You can pan and zoom at many distance levels. I am using 500square mile base map of central Pa. That has every road, trail, log road and stream on it as well as all the typical town and city streets. The Fenix screen is clearer and brighter that can be viewed from a sharper angle. The Ambit has a gray filter over the screen and the viewing angle has to be more strait on than the Fenix. The Fenix screen color looks more black on white in color and is very crisp. The Ambit has a filter that makes the text more muted in a gray color.
Many that own both can confirm this.



byasini said:


> Small map with low details.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> To me, comparing Fenix and Ambit / Ambit2 is like comparing apples and oranges. Both fruit, uhm, GPS-equipped, but both oriented very differently.
> Thus, as cue003 also said, it depends on the use.
> 
> Fenix: outdoors. Hikers, hunters, etc. Obviously a GPS device shrunk to fit on a wrist.
> Ambit / Ambit2 (and finally, the 2S makes it obvious): ultrarunners, outdoors athletes, etc. A training GPS device moving towards being a smartwatch.


I could not have said this better---the Fenix has NO training functions. It will record HR and that is it. It is clear from the direction the Ambit is headed that it is intended for athletes and not as a GPS device in the outdoors. The comparisons should probably cease as they are more or less meaningless. The devices to compare are the 910XT and the Suunto Ambit2 or 2S.

That said.....Suunto should wake up and build you guys an ABC GPS watch to compete with the Fenix....they have the hardware and the know how with the Core. Why they did not do this and announce with the Ambit2 is beyond me.

All of you that want a wrist worn GPS for hiking, hunting, etc as your primary activity I think the Fenix is the better device.

For training, running, triathlons, etc the Ambit2 and 2S are hard to beat. My Ambit2 is on order....anyone want a GPS for Explorers--used


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## Jeff_C

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Or knowing how to work with map and compass when exploring, and why. Right you are.


Now we are talking! Enjoying a morning espresso whilst looking over topo maps with my handy liquid compass. Ahh the good old days.

Give me maps and a compass any day. LOL (says the grumpy curmudgeon Luddite)... Good enough for Paul Petzoldt... by God good enough for me.


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## Mystro

An outhouse was good enough for my great grandfather but I am not turning down my wife's freshly remodeled bathroom any time soon.
They are just tools and diversity in tool skills is a must.



Jeff_C said:


> Now we are talking! Enjoying a morning espresso whilst looking over topo maps with my handy liquid compass. Ahh the good old days.
> 
> Give me maps and a compass any day. LOL (says the grumpy curmudgeon Luddite)... Good enough for Paul Petzoldt... by God good enough for me.


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## Mystro

Amen!!!! Suunto use to be the explorer's tool and they built their reputation by professional guides and explorers using Suunto gear in the most remote parts of the world. Suunto still shows the climber up on a vista yet they seem to be just giving this segment over to Garmin and rolling over into a different direction. That is why many of use that buy Suunto products for exploring feel somewhat abandoned by this strange turn of events. You got guys like Jerimy Wade that wear Suunto products on every show. I can tell you by talking to Garmin directly is that they want to own the Explorer GPS segment and it almost seems like Suunto and Garmin made a inside deal to divide up different segments of the market.

*We hunters, hikers ,and backpackers are athletes too. We just put the priority of not getting lost ahead of how many calories we burned mostly because where we go, there isnt any cell overage or back-up so looking good in this years Speedo isnt much of a priority.
*



martowl said:


> That said.....Suunto should wake up and build you guys an ABC GPS watch to compete with the Fenix....they have the hardware and the know how with the Core. Why they did not do this and announce with the Ambit2 is beyond me?


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## or_watching

Maybe the Ambit sales in 2012 were sooo good, it justified the hiring of this new System Architect so that they can parallelize product development, and keep everyone happy.

Hmm, maybe that last part is a stretch.

Probably just as likely the last system architect spent all his free time reading this forum, saw how unhappy some people were, and committed hara-kiri. Don't underestimate the sensitivity of the elite Finnish technologists.


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## ancient_mariner

Dear Mystro, aren't you taking this little too personally? If you could calm down you could be taken (more) seriously. To me, it seems that every new watch you own is the best watch in the world (I am referring way back to the reviews you made about Observer and X6M). And now when you have the Garmin Fenix, it is the best watch in the world. You can of course feel this way, but please understand, that other people have other opinions too. What may be best to you, it's not best for some other people.

If Ambit1 is so bad you say it is, then it was necessary to develop the Ambit2. And you can't just compare the feature list of Fenix and Ambit2, those features have to work too.

Everyone who are searching for professional reviews, please read DcRainmakers's website. Those reviews can help you making the right chose, what ever it will be, I do not care what watch you choose.

Garmin Fenix In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker

Suunto Ambit 2 and 2S In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker


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## Mystro

Dude, I am perfectly calm. I never said the Ambit was a bad product. I said the Ambit was abandoned too early and never developed to its full potential. As for my reviews in the past,...You do know those reviews of other Suunto products were not done at the same time or even same year for that matter? I worked with Suunto engineers on some internal bugs on the X6m so I am not unfamiliar how Suunto use to work with their current products.. I own ALOT of watches from many company, some I paid for and some I am reviewing. That does give me a bit of a advantage when I can compare features and performance back to back. Currently, the Fenix IS the best full featured GPS watch even if you go on specs alone. I own my own successful company for many years and have a engineering degree so its not like I just walked off the playground and formed a uneducated opinion. I really could care less if anyone wants to take me (MORE) seriously or not. I dont have a credibility problem on this or any other forum. *I tell it as it is or at least from my point of view which must be of some value, experience and credibility since other companies continue to search me out to review their products as a side gig.|> 
I have turned down free watches to review and chose to send them back to the manufacturer when I found a internal bug that couldnt be fixed so dont think I gush over every product.
*


ancient_mariner said:


> Dear Mystro, aren't you taking this little too personally? *If you could calm down you could be taken (more) seriously*. To me, it seems that every new watch you own is the best watch in the world (I am referring way back to the reviews you made about Observer and X6M). And now when you have the Garmin Fenix, it is the best watch in the world. You can of course feel this way, but please understand, that other people have other opinions too. What may be best to you, it's not best for some other people.
> 
> If Ambit1 is so bad you say it is, then it was necessary to develop the Ambit2. And you can't just compare the feature list of Fenix and Ambit2, those features have to work too.


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## ancient_mariner

Mystro said:


> Dude, I am perfectly calm. I never said the Ambit was a bad product. I said the Ambit was abandoned too early and never developed to its full potential. As for my reviews in the past,...You do know those reviews of other Suunto products were not done at the same time or even same year for that matter? I worked with Suunto engineers on some internal bugs on the X6m so I am not unfamiliar how Suunto use to work with their current products.. I own ALOT of watches from many company, some I paid for and some I am reviewing. That does give me a bit of a advantage when I can compare features and performance back to back. Currently, the Fenix IS the best full featured GPS watch even if you go on specs alone. I own my own successful company for many years and have a engineering degree so its not like I just walked off the playground and formed a uneducated opinion. I really could care less if anyone wants to take me (MORE) seriously or not. I dont have a credibility problem on this or any other forum. *I tell it as it is or at least from my point of view which must be of some value, experience and credibility since other companies continue to search me out to review their products as a side gig.|>
> I have turned down free watches to review and chose to send them back to the manufacturer when I found a internal bug that couldnt be fixed so dont think I gush over every product.
> *


 I am just saying that some of your posts and comments about this matter seemed a little bit too aggressive and provocative and in my eyes, it lessens your creditability. And I feel this way about anyone else who is doing the same, not just you. I know that you are a valued contributor in this forum and I have read many, many posts made by you and I know you have a lot of experience and feel passionate about ABC watches. And probably that is one reason why manufacturers seek your opinion too. I enjoy a good debate as much any person, but in my opinion, there is good to have some rules or restraints how to express itself. This is after all an international forum and many users a from different countries and languages and not everything is understood the same way and especially because all the communication is done in a written format.

And what comes to reviews (and this applies to every kind of product reviews) is that I like the kind of reviews which are as non-passionate as possible and just give the info about the product and let the reader be the judge of if the product suits he/her best. If the reviewer starts to praise the product too much, it makes me feel like he is selling it and not reviewing it. And if the reviewer bashes it, it seem like he is hired by the rival company to do the bashing. You have your own kind of way of doing reviews and it's fine (I actually just checked the Observer Black and X6M Black reviews, they have 3 months difference and X6M SS has one year). I've read those reviews many times and they have provided me good information, so good that I bought a black X6M |> some time ago and very much would like to get a Observer too. But all the excess praising leaves me a feeling of...hmmm, what word shall I use...illogicality. That is just my opinion and please continue doing the reviews if you can, I read them with my Mystro-filter glasses on :-!!



Mystro said:


> We hunters, hikers ,and backpackers are athletes too. We just put the priority of not getting lost ahead of how many calories we burned mostly because where we go, there isnt any cell overage or back-up so looking good in this years Speedo isnt much of a priority.


Heh, at least we see eye to eye on one matter!

I wish you success Mystro and hope this does not leave bad blood between us.

ps. As a side note, I don't know how many of you guys know this, but Suunto is a subsidiary of Amer Sports Corpotation along with Salomon, Arc'teryx, Atomic, Wilson, Precor, and Mavic. This raises the question how much power and leverage the Amer has over Suunto's product decisions?


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## Mystro

No bad blood. Some people get into their watches more passionately than others. That's why forums like these, passions run deep. If I find a exceptional product, I will praise it because it either has a superlative quality or does something it's completion doesn't. When I praise a product it passes my "Mystro" qualification as a product I would use, purchase again and would trust in the most remote areas. Too objective reviews are boring and don't get the readers excited for the product. It doesn't take much creativity to just repeat stats, facts and figures. I never want my reviews to sound like a catalog spec sheet, that's why I do ALOT of detailed pics and put certain products up on a pedestal if it checks all the right boxes. After all, if we weren't excited about these products, what are we doing hanging out at a silly watch forum? |>. Even with all recent criticism of Suunto, this side of the forums is still pretty tame. You should see the Omega forum on some of their debates, especially when the Rolex vs Omega comes up. Its like a bar fight. The automatic watch crowd takes passion to a new level.



ancient_mariner said:


> I am just saying that some of your posts and comments about this matter seemed a little bit too aggressive and provocative and in my eyes, it lessens your creditability. And I feel this way about anyone else who is doing the same, not just you. I know that you are a valued contributor in this forum and I have read many, many posts made by you and I know you have a lot of experience and feel passionate about ABC watches. And probably that is one reason why manufacturers seek your opinion too. I enjoy a good debate as much any person, but in my opinion, there is good to have some rules or restraints how to express itself. This is after all an international forum and many users a from different countries and languages and not everything is understood the same way and especially because all the communication is done in a written format.
> 
> And what comes to reviews (and this applies to every kind of product reviews) is that I like the kind of reviews which are as non-passionate as possible and just give the info about the product and let the reader be the judge of if the product suits he/her best. If the reviewer starts to praise the product too much, it makes me feel like he is selling it and not reviewing it. And if the reviewer bashes it, it seem like he is hired by the rival company to do the bashing. You have your own kind of way of doing reviews and it's fine (I actually just checked the Observer Black and X6M Black reviews, they have 3 months difference and X6M SS has one year). I've read those reviews many times and they have provided me good information, so good that I bought a black X6M |> some time ago and very much would like to get a Observer too. But all the excess praising leaves me a feeling of...hmmm, what word shall I use...illogicality. That is just my opinion and please continue doing the reviews if you can, I read them with my Mystro-filter glasses on :-!!
> 
> Heh, at least we see eye to eye on one matter!
> 
> I wish you success Mystro and hope this does not leave bad blood between us.
> 
> ps. As a side note, I don't know how many of you guys know this, but Suunto is a subsidiary of Amer Sports Corpotation along with Salomon, Arc'teryx, Atomic, Wilson, Precor, and Mavic. This raises the question how much power and leverage the Amer has over Suunto's product decisions?


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## ancient_mariner

Mystro said:


> No bad blood. Some people get into their watches more passionately than others. That's why forums like these, passions run deep. If I find a exceptional product, I will praise it because it either has a superlative quality or does something it's completion doesn't. When I praise a product it passes my "Mystro" qualification as a product I would use, purchase again and would trust in the most remote areas. Too objective reviews are boring and don't get the readers excited for the product. It doesn't take much creativity to just repeat stats, facts and figures. I never want my reviews to sound like a catalog spec sheet, that's why I do ALOT of detailed pics and put certain products up on a pedestal if it checks all the right boxes. After all, if we weren't excited about these products, what are we doing hanging out at a silly watch forum? |>. Even with all recent criticism of Suunto, this side of the forums is still pretty tame. You should see the Omega forum on some of their debates, especially when the Rolex vs Omega comes up. Its like a bar fight. The automatic watch crowd takes passion to a new level.


Yes, it's good to have a variety of reviews from different perspectives and the photos that many fine members of wus posts are invaluable resource when making a purchase decision. I don't also want the review to be just a spec sheet demonstration, examples of the watch performs in real life use are a must. Thats why I like the reviews of DCRainmaker.

You are right that this subforum has been very tame, and as I wrote earlier on a other thread, a little bit boring since the Ambit1 came to market because posts about it seemed to control the conversation. Now it seems like this forum wake up from hibernation!!!

Omega vs Rolex battles are indeed one of those "el classicos" of watch rivalry. I read many subforums of wus but I haven't explored those subforums yet, partly because I do not own those watches. As a fan of Seiko (and Japanese watches in general) and a owner of their automatics, I see that from time to time Seiko's products get the heat from some of the swiss watch owners :-x, but I don't mind about that because everyone are entitled to their opinions (even when they are wrong ;-)).


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## Falconeye75

Even if the Fenix is not perfect and need some improvement, it is far away better than the Ambit2. It has more, more functions and is not just a sport watch but a hike, sport, hunt,... watch. With the Ambit 2 , you need a computer to customize it and you cannot zoom more than half a mile on your track, so not for me.

As mentionned by Submersible, Fenix should fix some bugs, like GPS sync time (even if it seems it is hardware limitation because of crystal PPM).


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## SavageSS

I'm still undecided on both watches after selling my Ambit1. 
I like the build quality and looks of the Ambit over the one, and also the screen resolution. Dammit!

Can the Fenix be programed via their website, I acutally like this feature on the Ambit, rather be able to point and click rather than try to customise soley on a watch.

The thing that I really like of the Fenix is the Bread Crumbs, and navigation features over the Ambit. Very cool.

One other doubt with the Fenix is the fogging issue I've been reading about https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?34268-fenix-where-are-we/page5

Still undecided at this stage.


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## pjc3

Even if the Ambit2 is not perfect and needs some improvements, it is far away better than the fenix. It doesn't have a load I feature I would never use even when I do sport, hike, climb,.... The Ambit2 is very customizable and because yo can do it on a 27" computer screen it is really easy. The route overview is great and the 500m zoom means you can see you are on the right track. Of course I always have a full sized topo map when I go out in areas I am not familiar with which I find much easier to read than a 30mm 70x70 pixel topo map. It is definitely for me.

Oh, did I mention the Ambit2 actually looks nice?

And I think I have mentioned elsewhere you should have a good read about what each watch does and get the _best tool for you_ for the job


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## Mystro

Yes you can program some set up features via your computer.

I have water tested my Fenix and it was fine. Garmin says you can swim with your Fenix so there is no worries. The watch does have a no questions asked warrantee like Suunto so there is no risk. 










SavageSS said:


> I'm still undecided on both watches after selling my Ambit1.
> I like the build quality and looks of the Ambit over the one, and also the screen resolution. Dammit!
> 
> Can the Fenix be programed via their website, I acutally like this feature on the Ambit, rather be able to point and click rather than try to customise soley on a watch.
> 
> The thing that I really like of the Fenix is the Bread Crumbs, and navigation features over the Ambit. Very cool.
> 
> One other doubt with the Fenix is the fogging issue I've been reading about https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?34268-fenix-where-are-we/page5
> 
> Still undecided at this stage.


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## SavageSS

Thanks.
Mate has a Fenix at work, so will see if I can test it out.
Cheers


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## Mystro

No problem. My biggest complaint with the Fenix is the manual is way too brief. I would bet you will be finding new features and menus long after you master all the basic functions. Even a techie guy like myself is still finding some very clever options and I don't believe there is a master list of features. Perhaps they keep the manual streamlined so when new features were added they didn't have to reprint manuals. Either way the Fenix can be a fun puzzle to explore.



SavageSS said:


> Thanks.
> Mate has a Fenix at work, so will see if I can test it out.
> Cheers


----------



## martowl

Mystro said:


> Amen!!!! Suunto use to be the explorer's tool and they built their reputation by professional guides and explorers using Suunto gear in the most remote parts of the world. Suunto still shows the climber up on a vista yet they seem to be just giving this segment over to Garmin and rolling over into a different direction. That is why many of use that buy Suunto products for exploring feel somewhat abandoned by this strange turn of events. You got guys like Jerimy Wade that wear Suunto products on every show. I can tell you by talking to Garmin directly is that they want to own the Explorer GPS segment and it almost seems like Suunto and Garmin made a inside deal to divide up different segments of the market.
> 
> *We hunters, hikers ,and backpackers are athletes too. We just put the priority of not getting lost ahead of how many calories we burned mostly because where we go, there isnt any cell overage or back-up so looking good in this years Speedo isnt much of a priority.
> *


I agree with your first statement and never said anyone here was not an athlete. I apologize if you took offense but not was given. I also think that your statement regarding athletes is in rather poor taste. I don't participate in triathlons or ironman events but I doubt those that do care how they look in a Speedo. I have not made snide comments online regarding what you prefer to do for your hobbies and would hope that you would be able to do the same. Your bolded comment is offensive and derisive....

A major part of my athletics is to participate in off trail and mountaineering events with a minimum of equipment...such as a 30 mile to 50 mile "day" in the wilderness part on and part off trail. Getting lost or getting down off of the peaks prior to thunderstorms may mean the difference between survival or not. I do take risks that I probably should not take but I enjoy that part of my life. Under these circumstances no watch is going to suffice, I always have some type of a GPS with me and a SPOT device as much of this I do alone. There is no cell coverage in most of the places I run and climb and ski. Therefore, I use my Ambit for "exploring."


----------



## dezz

After few more weeks with both watches and some adjustments to the comparison..

I would like to point out that there is a huge difference in warranty service. With suunto you send in the watch they keep it for testing and if you're lucky you get the repaired one back after a week or two. Garmin sends out new watch the day you register RMA (with CC warranty)


*Ambit/Ambit2:*

+  Nice looking running/sports watch with very basic GPS functionality.
+ Great GPS fix times.
+ Movescount it is absolutely beautiful and usable (miss this the most in Fenix)
+ Inverted display choice is great
+ Altimeter is accurate

- GPS is limited to only tracking and is not utilize in any other way like timezones, sunrise/set, elevation, destination alarm, many many other...
- As a running/sports watch it is grossly overprice as you get all or more functionality in any 200-300$ GPS running watch out there.
- As a EDC watch it is inferior to any 50-100$ Casio/Timex
- One alarm without choice of weekdays/weekend so no sleeping late during weekend. Makes it useless.
- No countdown timer
- No back autobacklight to come on when watch is tilted (and it has accelerometer!!!) 
- No hourly alarm
- Strap feels nice but it very uncomfortable. Can't use on jacket/gloves. Can't really change to anything not provided by suunto and not like you have many choices from them. 
- If they add import option and just few minor corrections to route setting in movescount it is absolutely beautiful (miss this the most in Fenix)
- As nice as visual part of the watch is the design form the practical point is poor at best. 
- Buttons feel nice but easily mispressed requiring locking the device or at the end of the day you find out you were paused the whole  trip/workout
- There is no click in buttons so operating in gloves is not as responsive. 
- The antenna on inside of the wrist and the shape of Ambit makes it sit at an angle facing away from you. Makes you have to twist your wrist just a little more to see clearly combines with . In winter conditions, gloves etc. it is very annoying.
- As  nice 
as the screen is it is prone to ghosting and fading. In cold/hot conditions it gets much worse, almost unreadable.
- Material used in bezel is cheap soft metal (alu?) and is scratched in no time. No wonder they are changing that in Ambit2
- The navigating through menus is a maze. For a watch that has no setting in the watch (you do everything on movescount) it a mess. Takes 6 click to initiate GPS and start recording. 
- Almost all settings can be adjusted only from online account. So if you're on a trip with internet..
- The speed tracking and elevation is ok in general but with weird spikes/fluctuations for no reason. With no possibility of correcting data in movescount the average results are useless. 
- No readable battery indicator 
- ANT HR strap is proprietary and does not work with other devices

*Fenix:*

+ Is actually "GPS for explorers" with proper utilization of GPS (could always add more)
+ Maps in mapview 

+ Breadcrumbs
+ Point and go (Sight 'n go)
+ No need for PC or internet to setup everything
+ Many many useful features 
+ Normal strap that can be exchanged to any kind you like, need, prefer..
+ Nice large clickable buttons that you know you pressed (even with gloves) and almost no need for locking
+ GPS calibrated elevation and vertical speed
+  % batt indicator

- Orange button
- Screen is weird and screen real estate is wasted. Could have inverted option like Ambit *(but much better in terms of readability and no ghosting, fading)*
- No hourly alarm
- The pc software is a mess. Basecamp, Mapinstall, Mapsourse, Garmin Communicator Plugin, pluging, updater garminconnect, something else, and few other... 
- No Android app (iphone user would go with Ambit so this choice of mobile operating system is very strange)
- No profile editor or setup outside the unit. Would be nice to be able to setup on PC and transfer to the unit like with Ambit. (Still better of two evils)


----------



## SavageSS

Still deciding, hopefully workmate brings his Fenix to work so I can test it out.

Does the Fenix give you a recovery time and Peak Training Effect equivalant? I really like these two features on the Ambit.?
Oh Mystro, does the lower res of the Fenix after having an Ambit seem abvious, by the looks of things, the actual area if where it displays it's information looks quite small.


----------



## Cyberbob13

SavageSS said:


> Still deciding, hopefully workmate brings his Fenix to work so I can test it out.
> 
> Does the Fenix give you a recovery time and Peak Training Effect equivalant? I really like these two features on the Ambit.?
> Oh Mystro, does the lower res of the Fenix after having an Ambit seem abvious, by the looks of things, the actual area if where it displays it's information looks quite small.


(At least) basic training features and metrics such as PTE or Recovery Time are aspects Dezz is systematically very silent about as these are features of the Ambit which the Fenix does not have. It is up to you to decide which "pack of features" best goes together with your needs b-).


----------



## dezz

SavageSS said:


> Does the Fenix give you a recovery time and Peak Training Effect equivalant? I really like these two features on the Ambit.?
> Oh Mystro, does the lower res of the Fenix after having an Ambit seem abvious, by the looks of things, the actual area if where it displays it's information looks quite small.


1. Nope. But why have it on watch??? Ambit shows PTE? I analyze workout on PC (movescount) anyhow so..

2. The first time you see the screens side by side the reaction is "god, it is ugly!" After spending few days with both watches it becomes obvious how superior the screen on FENIX is. 
- It is much much clearer. You can see it perfectly in dim light where with Ambit you have to back-light it. 
- The viewing angle is great. 
- The resolution difference is not really noticeable mainly because the way it is utilized. The circle thingy with seconds is use to point the direction so no need for measuring weird pointy length lines to figure direction (it's not awful in Ambit just so weird that with that screen res they went for THAT and not just a pointer)
- No fading/ghosting like in Ambit.

Would love to see Fenix screen at Ambit resolution and coverage of the whole screen but between those two in outdoor conditions Fenix is a clear winner. If you're more of a "Look at my cool watch" kinda guy - inverted screen on Ambit is the way to go.

Like with most things with Ambit that people are complaining about - a lot of wasted hardware. The thing that fanboys are trying to ridicule and marginalize.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

dezz said:


> 1. Nope. But why have it on watch??? Ambit does not show PTE you analyze workout on PC (movescount) anyhow so..


Uhm...


----------



## dezz

Cyberbob13 said:


> (At least) basic training features and metrics such as PTE or Recovery Time are aspects Dezz is systematically very silent about as these are features of the Ambit which the Fenix does not have. It is up to you to decide which "pack of features" best goes together with your needs b-).


The info is just a calculation on workout data / bodymetrics. You have same workout data from Fenix so calculations can be done in any workout tracking software more efficiently.

How often do you actually use ambit to check those parameters during workout?


----------



## dezz

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Uhm...


Mr. Gerald, please be so kind to refresh page before quoting.

Yes. It was not correct info on my part. Fixed it few seconds later..

I wish one of you guys could provide an unbiased comparison to show why exactly Ambit is so superior. Without lowing yourselves to childish "mine is better cause its mine and cause it better" and "the grass is greener" (I don't think you're using that one right by the way.)

Yes. Fenix HAD alot of bugs. Yes, there WAS issue with fogging. Yes, it WAS inferior in fix times. ALL (most?) of those bugs where fixed. And the units replaced with new ones..


----------



## twelveone




----------



## pjc3

Oh for goodness sakes dezz. The OP is interested in the AMBIT2. CORRECTIONS/EXPERIENCE WITH AMBIT2 IN CAPITALS (not shouting ...just for differentiation)


dezz said:


> *Ambit/Ambit2:*
> 
> - GPS is limited to only tracking and is not utilize in any other way like timezones, sunrise/set, elevation, destination alarm, many many other... HAS DESTINATION ALARM, SUNRISE/SET, ELEVATION
> - As a running/sports watch it is grossly overprice as you get all or more functionality in any 200-300$ GPS running watch out there. IT IS NOT A RUNNING WATCH.
> - As a EDC watch it is inferior to any 50-100$ Casio/Timex
> - One alarm without choice of weekdays/weekend so no sleeping late during weekend. Makes it useless. MY ALARM WAKES ME UP EVERY TIME I SET IT. SEEMS PRETTY USEFUL TO ME.
> - No countdown timer HAS COUNTDOWN TIMER
> - No back autobacklight to come on when watch is tilted (and it has accelerometer!!!)
> - No hourly alarm
> - Strap feels nice but it very uncomfortable. Can't use on jacket/gloves. Can't really change to anything not provided by suunto and not like you have many choices from them. AMBIT2 HAS LOWER PROFILE STRAP AND IS VERY COMFORTABLE. ALL AMBIT STRAPS ARE INTERCHANGABLE
> - If they add import option and just few minor corrections to route setting in movescount it is absolutely beautiful (miss this the most in Fenix)
> - As nice as visual part of the watch is the design form the practical point is poor at best.
> - Buttons feel nice but easily mispressed requiring locking the device or at the end of the day you find out you were paused the whole  trip/workout NOT AN ISSUE FOR ME
> - There is no click in buttons so operating in gloves is not as responsive. NOT AN ISSUE FOR ME
> - The antenna on inside of the wrist and the shape of Ambit makes it sit at an angle facing away from you. Makes you have to twist your wrist just a little more to see clearly combines with . In winter conditions, gloves etc. it is very annoying. AMBIT2 SITS LOWER AND DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM ON MY WRIST
> - As  nice
> as the screen is it is prone to ghosting and fading. In cold/hot conditions it gets much worse, almost unreadable. I HAVE ONLY HAD IT DOWN TO -10 CELCIUS BUT STILL CLEARLY READABLE. REFRESHING OF SCREENS DOES LAG AT LOW TEMPS. I USE AMBIT2 MOSTLY AT AMBIENT TEMPS OF 30-35 CELCIUS....ALWAYS READABLE.
> - Material used in bezel is cheap soft metal (alu?) and is scratched in no time. No wonder they are changing that in Ambit2 AS YOU SAID, STEEL AVAILABLE ON AMBIT2
> - The navigating through menus is a maze. For a watch that has no setting in the watch (you do everything on movescount) it a mess. Takes 6 click to initiate GPS and start recording. I COUNT 4. MENU NAVIGATION HAS NOT BEEN A PROBLEM FOR ME
> - Almost all settings can be adjusted only from online account. So if you're on a trip with internet.. MOST SETTINGS ARE ABLE TO BE CHANGED IN WATCH. EXERCISE CUSTOMISATION IS DONE IN MOVESCOUNT
> - The speed tracking and elevation is ok in general but with weird spikes/fluctuations for no reason. With no possibility of correcting data in movescount the average results are useless.
> - No readable battery indicator BATTERY % VERY READALE
> - ANT HR strap is proprietary and does not work with other devices. MAYBE, BUT IF YOU HAVE THE AMBIT IT DOESN'T NEED TO WORK WITH OTHER DEVICES. BETTER STILL DON'T BUY YHE HR VERSION AND USE YOUR EXISTING ANT+ BELT


----------



## Cyberbob13

dezz said:


> The info is just a calculation on workout data / bodymetrics. You have same workout data from Fenix so calculations can be done in any workout tracking software more efficiently.
> 
> How often do you actually use ambit to check those parameters during workout?


This discussion is not about ME using feature X or body metric Y during my workouts. It is about YOU posting biased pros and cons. For a more outdoor / hiking-oriented user the Fenix might be best while for trail runners the Ambit possibly stands out. Even though this was already emphasized a hundred times before, again: The watch features need to match the individual users' needs. For your needs the Fenix seems to be best, for others this may be true in terms of the Ambit.

If you are so happy with your Fenix why don't you just enjoy the great outdoors with your watch instead of forcing a discussion in a Suunto (!) forum which is neither particularly interesting nor helpful?


----------



## Mystro

This is a good point I didn't bring up. The Suunto Ambit has a filter over the display that makes the screen gray and more muted??? The Ambit screen looks like it sits down farther into the watch. The Fenix screen is more white and black with more contrast and sits closer to the crystal. It seems to look sharper and can be viewed off axis easier. On paper the Ambit screen has a higher resolution but how it is implemented isnt as crisp as the Fenix. My high detailed base maps on the Fenix are super crisp. The rivers and streams look smooth without any pixelation.
The screen difference is very noticeable that I had to take some side by side pics in different lights and angles. The negative display is cool on the Ambit but I found I didn't use it very much simple because the positive display is so mine easier to read.
I am hoping the next Core will have this switchable display.


dezz said:


> 2. The first time you see the screens side by side the reaction is "god, it is ugly!" After spending few days with both watches it becomes obvious how superior the screen on FENIX is.
> - It is much much clearer. You can see it perfectly in dim light where with Ambit you have to back-light it.
> - The viewing angle is great.
> - The resolution difference is not really noticeable mainly because the way it is utilized. The circle thingy with seconds is use to point the direction so no need for measuring weird pointy length lines to figure direction (it's not awful in Ambit just so weird that with that screen res they went for THAT and not just a pointer)
> - No fading/ghosting like in Ambit.
> 
> Would love to see Fenix screen at Ambit resolution and coverage of the whole screen but between those two in outdoor conditions Fenix is a clear winner. If you're more of a "Look at my cool watch" kinda guy - inverted screen on Ambit is the way to go.
> 
> Like with most things with Ambit that people are complaining about - a lot of wasted hardware. The thing that fanboys are trying to ridicule and marginalize.


----------



## dezz

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Uhm...





pjc3 said:


> Oh for goodness sakes dezz. The OP is interested in the AMBIT2. CORRECTIONS/EXPERIENCE WITH AMBIT2 IN CAPITALS (not shouting ...just for differentiation)


_- GPS is limited to only tracking and is not utilize in any other way like timezones, sunrise/set, elevation, destination alarm, many many other... __HAS DESTINATION ALARM, SUNRISE/SET, ELEVATION_
*ok, my mistake.*

_- As a running/sports watch it is grossly overprice as you get all or more functionality in any 200-300$ GPS running watch out there. __IT IS NOT A RUNNING WATCH. _
*As a running/sports watch = if you use it mainly for running. Doesn't say "Ambit is a running watch." *
*So it is not. Can't see you point there..
*
_- One alarm without choice of weekdays/weekend so no sleeping late during weekend. Makes it useless. __MY ALARM WAKES ME UP EVERY TIME I SET IT. SEEMS PRETTY USEFUL TO ME. _
*I'm happy for you. Doesn't change the fact there is only one alarm and with no choice.*
_
__- No countdown timer __HAS COUNTDOWN TIMER_
_*my mistake.
Makes one wonder what HW upgrade made it possible? 
*_
*- Strap feels nice but it very uncomfortable. Can't use on jacket/gloves. Can't really change to anything not provided by suunto and not like you have many choices from them. AMBIT2 HAS LOWER PROFILE STRAP AND IS VERY COMFORTABLE. ALL AMBIT STRAPS ARE INTERCHANGABLE*
*Yet again, it's okish on hand. But the strap is just to short and uncomfortable to be used with winter clothing, gloves. Would love to see a link with all those interchangeable straps.*
*
**- Buttons feel nice but easily mispressed requiring locking the device or at the end of the day you find out you were paused the whole trip/workout NOT AN ISSUE FOR M*
*I'm happy for you. Doesn't change the fact it is not only MY PERSONAL opinion but something mentioned almost in every review.
*
*- There is no click in buttons so operating in gloves is not as responsive. NOT AN ISSUE FOR ME*
*I'm happy for you. Doesn't change the fact .
*
*- The antenna on inside of the wrist and the shape of Ambit makes it sit at an angle facing away from you. Makes you have to twist your wrist just a little more to see clearly combines with . In winter conditions, gloves etc. it is very annoying. AMBIT2 SITS LOWER AND DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM ON MY WRIST*
*I'm happy for you. Doesn't change the fact .
*
*- As nice as the screen is it is prone to ghosting and fading. In cold/hot conditions it gets much worse, almost unreadable. I HAVE ONLY HAD IT DOWN TO -10 CELCIUS BUT STILL CLEARLY READABLE. REFRESHING OF SCREENS DOES LAG AT LOW TEMPS. I USE AMBIT2 MOSTLY AT AMBIENT TEMPS OF 30-35 CELCIUS....ALWAYS READABLE.*
*
- Material used in bezel is cheap soft metal (alu?) and is scratched in no time. No wonder they are changing that in Ambit2 AS YOU SAID, STEEL AVAILABLE ON AMBIT2*
*Not all Ambit2 have metal bezels.
*
*- The navigating through menus is a maze. For a watch that has no setting in the watch (you do everything on movescount) it a mess. Takes 6 click to initiate GPS and start recording. I COUNT 4. MENU NAVIGATION HAS NOT BEEN A PROBLEM FOR ME*
*I see that this one get misinterpreted.. I did make a mistake of overusing 'everything" . The point is not is it 4 or 6 clicks (pretty sure it more than 6 ) but that it is hidden in sub sub menus*
*If there is a much faster way please share .
*
*- Almost all settings can be adjusted only from online account. So if you're on a trip with internet.. MOST SETTINGS ARE ABLE TO BE CHANGED IN WATCH. EXERCISE CUSTOMISATION IS DONE IN MOVESCOUNT*
*Vital parameters are connected with exercise so it is a valid point. As some examples change 1s/60s refresh, hr limits, intervals.. Yes, 'almost all" is the wrong way to say it. *
*

- No readable battery indicator BATTERY % VERY READALE*
*Is batt indicator fixed in A2? Can it be displayed all the time? *
*Makes one wonder how much memory/cpu cycles does it take..? *
*
- ANT HR strap is proprietary and does not work with other devices. MAYBE, BUT IF YOU HAVE THE AMBIT IT DOESN'T NEED TO WORK WITH OTHER DEVICES. BETTER STILL DON'T BUY YHE HR VERSION AND USE YOUR EXISTING ANT+ BELT*
*Doesn't change the fact .*




Cyberbob13 said:


> This discussion is not .... true in terms of the Ambit.
> 
> If you are so happy with your Fenix why don't you just enjoy the great outdoors with your watch instead of forcing a discussion in a Suunto (!) forum which is neither particularly interesting nor helpful?


[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Well Bob, that is also my point. What I really dislike about attacks on me is that they are mostly concentrated about personal preferences and use. Why would I be bias? I have both devices, got Ambit as a first choice.. [/FONT]
_
_


_Yes, I am happy with Fenix. Ambit is on ebay now. _
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Someone out there is buying. I'm providing information I wish someone would when I was spending my hard earned $$$

[/FONT]


----------



## SavageSS

Interesting reading.
Although I must say seeing PTE on the watch for me is useful, I don't always / everyday sync the Ambit to a computer. It's great to see PTE and recovery time straight after an exercise.

I hadn't notice any problems with the screen on the Ambit, but not important as I'm like the OP interested in comparing the A2 with the Fenix.
Me personally had no issues wearing the Ambit or problem with the HR strap, you can have Ant or Ant +.

I'll check the Fenix tomorrow and make my mind up, I'm really interested in the screen now, I don't like the chances of the Ambit2 getting the breadcrumb or tracking features of the Fenix, this would be great, but Suunto aren't saying anything with any possible upgrades for the Ambit2.


----------



## jweak

dezz said:


> _- _
> *- The navigating through menus is a maze. For a watch that has no setting in the watch (you do everything on movescount) it a mess. Takes 6 click to initiate GPS and start recording. I COUNT 4. MENU NAVIGATION HAS NOT BEEN A PROBLEM FOR ME*
> *I see that this one get misinterpreted.. I did make a mistake of overusing 'everything" . The point is not is it 4 or 6 clicks (pretty sure it more than 6 ) but that it is hidden in sub sub menus*
> *If there is a much faster way please share .
> *


I can start this with four 1. Start-stop, 2. exercise, 3. running, 4. start


dezz said:


> *- Almost all settings can be adjusted only from online account. So if you're on a trip with internet.. MOST SETTINGS ARE ABLE TO BE CHANGED IN WATCH. EXERCISE CUSTOMISATION IS DONE IN MOVESCOUNT*
> *Vital parameters are connected with exercise so it is a valid point. As some examples change 1s/60s refresh, hr limits, intervals.. Yes, 'almost all" is the wrong way to say it. *


You can change recording sample rate in middle of the exercise if you want. Long press back lap and change to a sport mode that has different hr limits/ recording rate.

edit. You could also make an app that beeps / puts backlight on every hour for hourly alarm.


----------



## dezz

SavageSS said:


> Interesting reading.
> Although I must say seeing PTE on the watch for me is useful, I don't always / everyday sync the Ambit to a computer. It's great to see PTE and recovery time straight after an exercise.
> 
> I hadn't notice any problems with the screen on the Ambit, but not important as I'm like the OP interested in comparing the A2 with the Fenix.
> Me personally had no issues wearing the Ambit or problem with the HR strap, you can have Ant or Ant +.
> 
> I'll check the Fenix tomorrow and make my mind up, I'm really interested in the screen now, I don't like the chances of the Ambit2 getting the breadcrumb or tracking features of the Fenix, this would be great, but Suunto aren't saying anything with any possible upgrades for the Ambit2.


If you have time and energy to check info after workout.. you're doing workout out wrong  I joke I joke..

Screen is new in A2? And they fail to mention it?

For what it is worth everyone around keeps repeating that A2 is going the triathlon direction so breadcrumb implementation will wait till Ambit3 this Xmas.



jweak said:


> I can start this with four 1. Start-stop, 2. exercise, 3. running, 4. start
> You can change recording sample rate in middle of the exercise if you want. Long press back lap and change to a sport mode that has different hr limits/ recording rate.
> 
> edit. You could also make an app that beeps / puts backlight on every hour for hourly alarm.


That is great they did that for A2


----------



## paduncan

Amazing how things can change:

Ambit screen used to own the Fenix - now the Fenix screen is better
Customizability of Ambit is no longer "cool" - Fenix has all you need (even though many have reported serious build quality, software, GPS issues)
PTE - a key metric for fitness started by Suunto / FirstBeat over a decade ago is no longer needed - until you get back to the computer (wait - I thought it was stupid to have to do everything at the computer?)
Slightly protruding antennae from Ambit is now a problem - even though several reports say that the Ambit has a faster lock on GPS signals.

Let the neurosis continue.

Still waiting for the statement from Suunto that they guaranteed unlimited firmware updates for the life of the watch, and that they guaranteed that they wouldn't come out with a new Ambit until a time that was to our mutual liking.

I am just curious - Fenix has been out for some time now - why did it take some of our most notorious posters and product reviewers until NOW to realize the apparent superiority of the Fenix? I mean if it is better, it is better, period, without regards to whether or not Suunto chooses to release a newer Ambit.


----------



## paduncan

BTW: If the Fenix can't do that cool reverse display thing the Ambit does, than the Fenix completely fails. 

LOL - how many posts were on here because of that feature alone on the Ambit?


----------



## or_watching

paduncan said:


> BTW: If the Fenix can't do that cool reverse display thing the Ambit does, than the Fenix completely fails.


OK, enough of the sarcasm already. It confuses people.


----------



## martowl

or_watching said:


> OK, enough of the sarcasm already. It confuses people.


But I want a big colored button on my Ambit, oh and on the left side please.


----------



## martowl

dezz said:


> The info is just a calculation on workout data / bodymetrics. You have same workout data from Fenix so calculations can be done in any workout tracking software more efficiently.
> 
> How often do you actually use ambit to check those parameters during workout?


You are incorrect on this dezz! The TE/PTE calculation requires R-R recording of the beat intervals _between_ heartbeats, it cannot be obtained from HR readings alone. R-R recording requires quite a bit more file space and Garmin does this for other models, why not the fenix? I use PTE in real time for many workouts and for post-analysis. It is an important feature for me that I have been using since I bought my T6 many years ago. Professional athletes use R-R information in the morning to gauge the difficulty of the day's workout. The data are used in quite sophisticated analyses.

The Ambit does display PTE in real time, I have this on every running and cycling screen setup--why because in a 50 or 100 mile running race if my cumulative PTE is at 4.0 10 miles in I am probably toast.


----------



## martowl

Cyberbob13 said:


> This discussion is not about ME using feature X or body metric Y during my workouts. It is about YOU posting biased pros and cons. For a more outdoor / hiking-oriented user the Fenix might be best while for trail runners the Ambit possibly stands out. Even though this was already emphasized a hundred times before, again: The watch features need to match the individual users' needs. For your needs the Fenix seems to be best, for others this may be true in terms of the Ambit.
> 
> If you are so happy with your Fenix why don't you just enjoy the great outdoors with your watch instead of forcing a discussion in a Suunto (!) forum which is neither particularly interesting nor helpful?


Hey Cyberbob, you and I and pjc3 and paduncan and or_watching (watch out for this one he owns both) and some others, sorry for missing you ifarlow, have said this a thousand times in posts, ahhhh...it does not matter we need to understand we are wrong no matter what we think or want....hmmmmm I need to stop thinking so much and being rational, that will be hard for me as it is my job!


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> Hey Cyberbob, you and I and pjc3 and paduncan and or_watching (watch out for this one he owns both) and some others, sorry for missing you ifarlow, have said this a thousand times in posts, ahhhh...it does not matter we need to understand we are wrong no matter what we think or want...*.hmmmmm I need to stop thinking so much and being rational*, that will be hard for me as it is my job!


Not to derail this thread completely (as if), but while no one is actually thinking about the best uses for the tool for the job, I might as well help martowl, right?:


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Not to derail this thread completely (as if), but while no one is actually thinking about the best uses for the tool for the job, I might as well help martowl, right?:


Thanks Gerald!!!|> that is a lot easier than what I have been doing o|


----------



## bowesmana

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Not to derail this thread completely (as if), but while no one is actually thinking about the best uses for the tool for the job, I might as well help martowl, right?:


Brilliant - thanks for making my day Gerald. I've been trying to find this pill for years. Thought ultra running would do it, but it's not working, it's doing the opposite.


----------



## or_watching

martowl said:


> But I want a big colored button on my Ambit, oh and on the left side please.


Now that's bordering on being snarky.


----------



## paduncan

martowl said:


> You are incorrect on this dezz! The TE/PTE calculation requires R-R recording of the beat intervals _between_ heartbeats, it cannot be obtained from HR readings alone. R-R recording requires quite a bit more file space and Garmin does this for other models, why not the fenix? I use PTE in real time for many workouts and for post-analysis. It is an important feature for me that I have been using since I bought my T6 many years ago. Professional athletes use R-R information in the morning to gauge the difficulty of the day's workout. The data are used in quite sophisticated analyses.
> 
> The Ambit does display PTE in real time, I have this on every running and cycling screen setup--why because in a 50 or 100 mile running race if my cumulative PTE is at 4.0 10 miles in I am probably toast.


You know, it's kind of weird. It's kind of like someone is arguing a point without really knowing at least the basic facts of what they are talking about. Hmm. The internet. Strange place.


----------



## or_watching

martowl said:


> if my cumulative PTE is at 4.0 10 miles in I am probably toast.


That explains why I'm always toast by mile 5. It's the watch's fault.


----------



## martowl

paduncan said:


> You know, it's kind of weird. It's kind of like someone is arguing a point without really knowing at least the basic facts of what they are talking about. Hmm. The internet. Strange place.


Hmmm. hope you did not mean me here as the HRV is the time variation in the heartbeats typically measured by the peak of the QRS complex, this is the R-R recording that Suunto and FBA measure. The increase in HRV correlates well with aerobic exercise and is used as a measure of exercise intensity. The HRV or R-R and the HR are used to calculate O2 consumption and arrive at an estimation of VO2 max from which the TE values are derived. In short it requires measurement of beat to beat variability by the watch, my point in the thread.


----------



## SavageSS

OK. so work mate forgot to bring in the Fenix so I ran during my lunch break to local sport store and actually got to look at a Fenix and Ambit2 side by side.

Initial thoughts.

Ambit2 not as nice looking as the Original Ambit
Garmin Fenix, actually not too bad looking at all.

Ambit2 screen display, as the Ambit1 is great.
Fenix, good, although with the three views on the one screen looks a bit cramped

I won't go into features too much as both have the pro's and cons. Eg love the app-ability of the Ambit, love the features built into the Fenix

Like the idea on the Fenix and can change all setting s on the watch (not sure if this can be done on the web portal?)
Wish the Ambit2 could do this, eg saving a POI, renaming it on the watch, not haing to upload it first to rename it. A pro for this is the ease of doing it on the web portal.

Menu system, I really like the Ambit2 (same as Ambit) menu structure, not sure what the complaints about, when I 1st got the Ambit1 I never looked at the ,menu and thought how well laid out the menu was.
With the Fenix, although a brief look also has a well laid out menu system, could not say it was better or worse.

One thing with the fenix I did not like was the "beep" when going through menus, personal taste and only minor.

I checked out the running metrics, and must say the Ambit looks to have a lot more in this aspect and I've mentioned before love the Ambits PTE and RT is there something like this on the Fenix?
Love the Fenixs Track Back.

So all up to me for my needs much of a muchness and really come down to how they are presented in their webportals, Movescount and Garminconnect. I haven't done enough comparisons in this respect but do really like MovesCount at the moment.
Someone got a link to some runs / Mountain bikes rides I can look at in Garmin Connect?


----------



## dezz

SavageSS said:


> OK. so work mate forgot to bring in the Fenix so I ran during my lunch break to local sport store and actually got to look at a Fenix and Ambit2 side by side.
> 
> In


You should go for Ambit.
The great feature that is not mentioned in any manual is that after every run guys (love suunto gang) from WUS give you a full body sensual massage. You won't get that with Fenix


----------



## SavageSS

I'm trying to be subjective. Your reply doesn't help.

Why is there not a Garmin category on this forum?


----------



## Cyberbob13

dezz said:


> You should go for Ambit.
> The great feature that is not mentioned in any manual is that after every run guys (love suunto gang) from WUS give you a full body sensual massage. You won't get that with Fenix


@ dezz: So far you have written 53 posts and for me 99% of them were not helpful but rather dull nonsense. If you switched over to the Garmin forums this would not help as I read them too (I have a Garmin Edge 810 and NO Ambit just to be clear on that. And I am bad at giving a massage).


----------



## paduncan

martowl said:


> Hmmm. hope you did not mean me here as the HRV is the time variation in the heartbeats typically measured by the peak of the QRS complex, this is the R-R recording that Suunto and FBA measure. The increase in HRV correlates well with aerobic exercise and is used as a measure of exercise intensity. The HRV or R-R and the HR are used to calculate O2 consumption and arrive at an estimation of VO2 max from which the TE values are derived. In short it requires measurement of beat to beat variability by the watch, my point in the thread.


Definitely not you. Hoping you would get my humor. In a weird mood lately. :^)


----------



## paduncan

Cyberbob13 said:


> @ dezz: So far you have written 53 posts and for me 99% of them were not helpful but rather dull nonsense. If you switched over to the Garmin forums this would not help as I read them too (I have a Garmin Edge 810 and NO Ambit just to be clear on that. And I am bad at giving a massage).


Agree withy you. Dezz's posts are like 50% just wrong in their facts.

Also, own Garmin 610, GPSMap 62S, Edge 805, and several other products. Prefer Garmin HR strap with Ambit - so love Garmin also (just throwing that in there in case anyone thought I was a Suunto fanboy).


----------



## Jeff_C

paduncan said:


> Agree withy you. Dezz's posts are like 50% just wrong in their facts.
> .


Easy boys. When facts are wrong we correct them. We don't call out the poster. ... remember... like grade school. We play nice.

Paduncan... not calling you out, its a note to all. Counter ideas dont attack nembers.

Its a good thread I dont want to lock it.

Thank you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Joakim Agren

SavageSS said:


> OK. so work mate forgot to bring in the Fenix so I ran during my lunch break to local sport store and actually got to look at a Fenix and Ambit2 side by side.
> 
> Initial thoughts.
> 
> Ambit2 not as nice looking as the Original Ambit
> Garmin Fenix, actually not too bad looking at all.
> 
> Ambit2 screen display, as the Ambit1 is great.
> Fenix, good, although with the three views on the one screen looks a bit cramped
> 
> I won't go into features too much as both have the pro's and cons. Eg love the app-ability of the Ambit, love the features built into the Fenix
> 
> Like the idea on the Fenix and can change all setting s on the watch (not sure if this can be done on the web portal?)
> Wish the Ambit2 could do this, eg saving a POI, renaming it on the watch, not haing to upload it first to rename it. A pro for this is the ease of doing it on the web portal.
> 
> Menu system, I really like the Ambit2 (same as Ambit) menu structure, not sure what the complaints about, when I 1st got the Ambit1 I never looked at the ,menu and thought how well laid out the menu was.
> With the Fenix, although a brief look also has a well laid out menu system, could not say it was better or worse.
> 
> One thing with the fenix I did not like was the "beep" when going through menus, personal taste and only minor.
> 
> I checked out the running metrics, and must say the Ambit looks to have a lot more in this aspect and I've mentioned before love the Ambits PTE and RT is there something like this on the Fenix?
> Love the Fenixs Track Back.
> 
> So all up to me for my needs much of a muchness and really come down to how they are presented in their webportals, Movescount and Garminconnect. I haven't done enough comparisons in this respect but do really like MovesCount at the moment.
> Someone got a link to some runs / Mountain bikes rides I can look at in Garmin Connect?


What version of the Ambit2 did you have a look at?

I think the Ambit1 black looks nicer then the Ambit2 Black so is it those you have compared the looks of? But if you say you think the new Sapphire version looks less nice than I am very surprised since it has a very exclusive look to it!

The Sapphire version is the only version amongst the Ambit2 that I think has equally or better look then the Ambit1 black.


----------



## martowl

paduncan said:


> Definitely not you. Hoping you would get my humor. In a weird mood lately. :^)


The humor was great but....I have been chastised by my wife for not having one...a sense of humor that is...I think I have one but no one else gets MY jokes


----------



## SavageSS

HI There.
Yes spot on, the black version, not interested forking out extra $100 on the sapphire, I had no issues with the Black Ambit1. I agree with you on the regards to the looks of the Sapphire version. I'm after all black due to less noticeable, which is handy as I'm an Army Reservist and use it when on field exercises.

I did some more checking, and think I'm swaying to the Ambit, only because of Movescount, I'm really impressed with it's metrics of data available, in comparison to the Garmin Connect. I think Fenix is a better watch, but to sway me over, it would need better running (and for me Mountain biking information) and have the Garmin Connect site improved to the standard of moves count.


----------



## bowesmana

martowl said:


> I have been chastised by my wife


With almost 50 hours of moves in the last 30 days, you still have one?


----------



## Mystro

Remember, you looked at a fayory generic set-up. Everything on the Fenix is adjustable. That includes beeps, menu order, number of screens, amount of info displayed on screens, even what which buttons do what, etc.... You can custom adjust it to your own taste and visual appeal.


----------



## SavageSS

Mystro said:


> Remember, you looked at a fayory generic set-up. Everything on the Fenix is adjustable. That includes beeps, menu order, number of screens, amount of info displayed on screens, even what which buttons do what, etc.... You can custom adjust it to your own taste and visual appeal.


Hi Mystro.
Since you have had both Ambit1 and Fenix can you answer these Questions for me!?
Or correct them if my assumptions / accertations are incorrect.

* Is there a current list of exercises available on the Fenix, In particular is there an equivalent for Weight Training on the Ambit1 and Ambit2, can you configure / customize an exercise for MTB biking
* Is there swim metrics for indoor and outdoor swimming, caparison to the Ambit2
* For indoor training, when using the Ambit on a treadmill for example, is was pretty close to giving the distance I would have traveled (guessing it used fusespeed for this, does or can the Fenix do the same, this was a surprise feature that I thought was great of the Ambit.
* With the Fenix if you were to go into a black spot (tunnel for example) does it estimate what you are doing like the Ambit, or has a blank section?
* Movescount allows you to interact with the Map and now has map colour co-ordinated to that of the metrix you are viewing, does Garmin Connect do this
* I'm still not sure if Training Effect is on the Fenix and does it have option to put in recovery time after an exercise.

These are probably the most current features I use (or would use regarding the swimming if I bought the Ambit2)

Thanks Scott


----------



## martowl

bowesmana said:


> With almost 50 hours of moves in the last 30 days, you still have one?


When you have been married as long as I have the activation energy for change is very High...so I have some flexibility in my hobbies.


----------



## ifarlow

SavageSS said:


> Is there a current list of exercises available on the Fenix, In particular is there an equivalent for Weight Training on the Ambit1 and Ambit2, can you configure / customize an exercise for MTB biking


You can create custom profiles for whatever activity you want. In doing so, you can create custom data pages with up to three fields per page, much like the Ambit can do. However, unlike the Ambit, you only have three choices when it comes to the activity type as it relates to Garmin Connect: running, cycling, and other (just like the 910xt).



> Is there swim metrics for indoor and outdoor swimming, caparison to the Ambit2


No. The Fenix is not designed for swimming. The 910xt or the Swim would be the better choices for this if you want to stick with Garmin products.



> For indoor training, when using the Ambit on a treadmill for example, is was pretty close to giving the distance I would have traveled (guessing it used fusespeed for this, does or can the Fenix do the same, this was a surprise feature that I thought was great of the Ambit.


Neither the Ambit nor the Fenix can determine distance when indoor on a treadmill without a footpod. If you use a footpod, however, both can determine distance, pace, cadence, etc. If you _did_ get distance on a treadmill when not using a footpod on the Ambit, then you _also_ had GPS enabled at which point FusedSpeed came into play. However, GPS indoors doesn't make a lot of sense, even taking FusedSpeed into account. The Fenix, on a side note, does not have a FusedSpeed equivalent.



> With the Fenix if you were to go into a black spot (tunnel for example) does it estimate what you are doing like the Ambit, or has a blank section?


The Fenix will use the footpod to supplement GPS data. The Ambit will use the footpod to _replace_ GPS data. In either case, and within reason, both units will estimate the activity when under limited cover.



> Movescount allows you to interact with the Map and now has map colour co-ordinated to that of the metrix you are viewing, does Garmin Connect do this


No. However, Garmin Connect does have decent graphing capabilities, although not on the same level as Movescount. Garmin Connect isn't bad, per se, but Movescount is far more detailed in the data it shows. Like Movescount, however, Garmin Connect can show second-by-second relationships between data and the map track.



> I'm still not sure if Training Effect is on the Fenix and does it have option to put in recovery time after an exercise.


No training effect, and no recovery time. The Fenix is not a sports/training watch, per se. It is an outdoor watch, which is why it is listed in the "On the Trail" category and not in the "Into Sports" category on Garmin's web site. The Ambit is more geared towards training while the Fenix is more geared towards outdoor navigation. Similarly, the 910xt, 610, etc. would be better than the Fenix for sports if you want to stick with Garmin products. If you want a wrist-worn navigation device, however, the Fenix is at the top of the list (or near, if you also consider the Foretrex).


----------



## SavageSS

Excellent thanks for that information.

I can't be sure if I had GPS enable while on the treadmill, but I did on a 5km run (according to the treadmill) come in at 4.98Km on the Ambit.

Looks like for me the Ambit2 is probably better suited to my needs, although having better trekking would have been great on the Ambit2, sort of the best of both Ambit2 and Fenix features.

Oh, I did find out after playing on Garmin Connect that if you click on the option "play" or analyse you can get close to the same ability of the interactive maps of Movescount.

If I had my way I would get both, alas a comprimise I have to make


----------



## ifarlow

SavageSS said:


> Looks like for me the Ambit2 is probably better suited to my needs, although having better trekking would have been great on the Ambit2, sort of the best of both Ambit2 and Fenix features.


Yeah, I too wish for one device that merges both. I'm going to move into an Ambit 2S and be done with it (at least until the next big thing comes along).



> Oh, I did find out after playing on Garmin Connect that if you click on the option "play" or analyse you can get close to the same ability of the interactive maps of Movescount.


Yep. Close and definitely not bad.


----------



## pjc3

Do not discount the simple script available which will convert all your Garmin downloads into Movescount. This way you can use the fenix but view in Movescount. I do not do this (my only Garmin product ATM is a hand held GPS) but others have with success I believe.


----------



## ifarlow

I have used MXActivityMover and it works fairly good. Actually, it works perfectly with the 910xt and 610 data I have, and only worked so so with the Fenix data I have. Some data was missing with regards to the Fenix... Can't remember specifically what, but there were some odd issues.


----------



## SavageSS

Ok, that's good to know. I'm hoping to burrow a Fenix for the week-end, and will test this out if I do.


----------



## paduncan

Major difference - Ambit allows you up to 5 views for the bottom of the three lines on each screen. So, you are not limited to three pieces of information per screen. You are limited to 7. This is a key feature for me.



ifarlow said:


> You can create custom profiles for whatever activity you want. In doing so, you can create custom data pages with up to three fields per page, much like the Ambit can do. However, unlike the Ambit, you only have three choices when it comes to the activity type as it relates to Garmin Connect: running, cycling, and other (just like the 910xt).
> 
> No. The Fenix is not designed for swimming. The 910xt or the Swim would be the better choices for this if you want to stick with Garmin products.
> 
> Neither the Ambit nor the Fenix can determine distance when indoor on a treadmill without a footpod. If you use a footpod, however, both can determine distance, pace, cadence, etc. If you _did_ get distance on a treadmill when not using a footpod on the Ambit, then you _also_ had GPS enabled at which point FusedSpeed came into play. However, GPS indoors doesn't make a lot of sense, even taking FusedSpeed into account. The Fenix, on a side note, does not have a FusedSpeed equivalent.
> 
> The Fenix will use the footpod to supplement GPS data. The Ambit will use the footpod to _replace_ GPS data. In either case, and within reason, both units will estimate the activity when under limited cover.
> 
> No. However, Garmin Connect does have decent graphing capabilities, although not on the same level as Movescount. Garmin Connect isn't bad, per se, but Movescount is far more detailed in the data it shows. Like Movescount, however, Garmin Connect can show second-by-second relationships between data and the map track.
> 
> No training effect, and no recovery time. The Fenix is not a sports/training watch, per se. It is an outdoor watch, which is why it is listed in the "On the Trail" category and not in the "Into Sports" category on Garmin's web site. The Ambit is more geared towards training while the Fenix is more geared towards outdoor navigation. Similarly, the 910xt, 610, etc. would be better than the Fenix for sports if you want to stick with Garmin products. If you want a wrist-worn navigation device, however, the Fenix is at the top of the list (or near, if you also consider the Foretrex).


----------



## Mystro

The first time you synch via wireless Bluetooth, you won't stop smiling. The coolness factor is off the charts. Garmin has a great Basecamp app for the ipad/iPhone. I was riding around last night in my truck and with my detailed base map loaded on the Fenix, the accuracy and display matched my Garmin Nuvi on the dash turn for turn and speed was matched exactly to the 10th of a mile a hour. It was like I had a miniature auto GPS on my wrist and my GPS record time was set to 15 seconds instead of every second. Even with a GPS record time of 15 seconds, the movement was smooth like a video game on my wrist.



SavageSS said:


> Excellent thanks for that information.
> 
> I can't be sure if I had GPS enable while on the treadmill, but I did on a 5km run (according to the treadmill) come in at 4.98Km on the Ambit.
> 
> Looks like for me the Ambit2 is probably better suited to my needs, although having better trekking would have been great on the Ambit2, sort of the best of both Ambit2 and Fenix features.
> 
> Oh, I did find out after playing on Garmin Connect that if you click on the option "play" or analyse you can get close to the same ability of the interactive maps of Movescount.
> 
> If I had my way I would get both, alas a comprimise I have to make











Even with the GPS set to a slower 15 second record rate, the tracking was accurate and smooth going in a car with varying speeds from 5-70mph. My basemap on the Fenix shows all the roads and details below except of course the Sat image overlay. This is a huge game changer for any married man that owns a Garmin Fenix. He will never have to suffer the indignity of having to ask for directions in front of his wife again.


----------



## ifarlow

Mystro said:


> The first time you synch via wireless Bluetooth, you won't stop smiling.


Bluetooth sync on the Fenix is interesting, but very limited. I wasn't smiling when I tried it; I was disappointed. For example, it would be nice if Garmin would actually make the sync capable of uploading activities, but they haven't. No indication that they ever will, either.


----------



## ifarlow

paduncan said:


> Major difference - Ambit allows you up to 5 views for the bottom of the three lines on each screen.


Good point.


----------



## cue003

ifarlow said:


> Bluetooth sync on the Fenix is interesting, but very limited. I wasn't smiling when I tried it; I was disappointed. For example, it would be nice if Garmin would actually make the sync capable of uploading activities, but they haven't. No indication that they ever will, either.


Can you clarify what you mean by Bluetooth sync is not capable of uploading activities?

What is Bluetooth sync used for then?


----------



## Mystro

The bluetooth lets you transfer all your watches info like tracks, waypoints, data,etc... wireless to your phone,ipad, computer. It takes only a few seconds. I never plug my Fenix in to my computer anymore only to charge the battery. I like to review my info on my Ipad at the end of the day and it works seamlessly. Remember, the Fenix can be a stand alone piece of gear so you dont need any software to make changes to the watch. You can do it on the watch itself. You custom make your own tracks,waypoints, and routs on the watch itself or you can use a computer to do it. 


cue003 said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by Bluetooth sync is not capable of uploading activities?
> 
> What is Bluetooth sync used for then?


----------



## or_watching

I think the distinction is that BC mobile and BC desktop do now synch via Garmin cloud. But that's unrelated to Garmin Connect. AFAIK, it's the Outdoor division of Garmin vs the Fitness side of Garmin. 

When BC mobile first came out it was a total pointless yawn. But now with Cloud access, it's got some utility wrt coordination to BC desktop. But I think it still requires a network connection - Looks like there is some map/image caching for offline use, but I haven't really field tested it.


----------



## ifarlow

Mystro said:


> The bluetooth lets you transfer all your watches info like tracks, waypoints, data,etc... wireless to your phone,ipad, computer.


Unless something changed recently, you can't transfer any data such as heart rate, calories, ascent/descent, etc. Only waypoints, trackpoints, etc. can be transferred. So I can't, for example, review an outdoor exercise for any exercise related data on the iPhone, iPad, etc. without first physically connecting the Fenix to my computer and uploading the FIT file to Garmin Connect. Therefore, it can't transfer "all your watches info" as you say.

If I'm wrong, please show me as it is news to me.


----------



## cue003

ifarlow said:


> Unless something changed recently, you can't transfer any data such as heart rate, calories, ascent/descent, etc. Only waypoints, trackpoints, etc. can be transferred. So I can't, for example, review an outdoor exercise for any exercise related data on the iPhone, iPad, etc. without first physically connecting the Fenix to my computer and uploading the FIT file to Garmin Connect. Therefore, it can't transfer "all your watches info" as you say.
> 
> If I'm wrong, please show me as it is news to me.


After reading your post I just smacked me that I can travel as I normally do if I decide to buy the ambit2 sapphire. Sometimes I travel and I do not bring my computer. I travel with my iPhone, and iPad. computer stays at home and if i need anything on it i just remote desktop to it from my iDevice. I do have a portable charging pocket device so topping off the ambit2 battery will be now problem but it now brings concern that if I don't have my physical computer I could possible run out of room on the ambit2 and not be able to transfer the data to the computer. I will also have to be sure all apps etc that I may need for the week are loaded on the ambit2 before leaving home. No problem on reviewing my workouts later when I return home.

Am I missing something? Just trying to get a proper workflow for my way of traveling. I am generally a lightweight traveller. I just want to be sure I am not hit with too many surprises AFTER dropping $650 on the Sapphire/HR model.

Thanks


----------



## SavageSS

The sync to via Bluetooth sounds good but I wouldn't be able to use it. I have an iPhone 4 so my understanding is that it won't work. And it's a work phone, I don't have a personal mobile but if I did it wouldn't be an iDevice.

With regards to storage on the ambit2, I think you would be safe. Recently with my Ambit1 I had it for 17 days, no access to Internet. I did exercises every 2 days and also added poi's and so on. No problem. Yes if you plan on changing settings on the watch you will need access to a computer with Internet access. But how often would you want to change the set-up once you have your watch configured


----------



## martowl

ifarlow said:


> Bluetooth sync on the Fenix is interesting, but very limited. I wasn't smiling when I tried it; I was disappointed. For example, it would be nice if Garmin would actually make the sync capable of uploading activities, but they haven't. No indication that they ever will, either.


An interesting point as Garmin HAS enabled this for the Edge 810 but NOT the Fenix...disconnect between the trail and sports groups.


----------



## martowl

SavageSS said:


> The sync to via Bluetooth sounds good but I wouldn't be able to use it. I have an iPhone 4 so my understanding is that it won't work. And it's a work phone, I don't have a personal mobile but if I did it wouldn't be an iDevice.
> 
> With regards to storage on the ambit2, I think you would be safe. Recently with my Ambit1 I had it for 17 days, no access to Internet. I did exercises every 2 days and also added poi's and so on. No problem. Yes if you plan on changing settings on the watch you will need access to a computer with Internet access. But how often would you want to change the set-up once you have your watch configured


This is great can you give more details.... 1s or 60s GPS fix, HR or no HR? how many hours of activities were stored??? When I originally asked Suunto I was told 50h storage at 60s GPS fix and 16 h at 1 sec GPS fix with HR data and altitude data at 10s and 1s, respectively.


----------



## SavageSS

It was on 1s fix, with HR. I think it was around the 14 hour mark. But really never thought about it being an issue. May have been close to it's limits?


----------



## martowl

cue003 said:


> After reading your post I just smacked me that I can travel as I normally do if I decide to buy the ambit2 sapphire. Sometimes I travel and I do not bring my computer. I travel with my iPhone, and iPad. computer stays at home and if i need anything on it i just remote desktop to it from my iDevice. I do have a portable charging pocket device so topping off the ambit2 battery will be now problem but it now brings concern that if I don't have my physical computer I could possible run out of room on the ambit2 and not be able to transfer the data to the computer. I will also have to be sure all apps etc that I may need for the week are loaded on the ambit2 before leaving home. No problem on reviewing my workouts later when I return home.
> 
> Am I missing something? Just trying to get a proper workflow for my way of traveling. I am generally a lightweight traveller. I just want to be sure I am not hit with too many surprises AFTER dropping $650 on the Sapphire/HR model.
> 
> Thanks


I have done this often with my Ambit1. I travel a lot as well and often just bring my iPad. My settings on the watch have not changed much since I got those set. With 1 sec recording I can get about 15h on the watch. I just bring the charger. One of my reasons for getting an Ambit2 is to have increased storage capacity


----------



## bowesmana

martowl said:


> One of my reasons for getting an Ambit2 is to have increased storage capacity


Do you know how long a log can be with all settings on 1s? If it has lots more memory is that available for log storage or is it partitioned for apps only?


----------



## SavageSS

Thanks to everyones view on this thread, made me investigate a lot more into a watch, I even got to try mates Fenix for a day.

In the End, I put a deposit down on the Ambit2. THe Fenix is a great watch but there was some things to me personally I prefered on the Ambit / Ambit2.

I actually prefer the menu system in the Ambit, love I can get PTE and Recovery on the watch while exercising, and really prefer Movescount, although MX Activity Mover worked a treat. 
I ended up getting a great price for Ambit2.
I may still get a Fenix later down the track, I loved the GPS tools it has, they would come in very handy.


----------



## bowesmana

SavageSS said:


> I ended up getting a great price for Ambit2.


Where did you get yours from? I see Ryda have a good price on the Sapphire HRM @ 644.85 + shipping. Not sure what they're like though.


----------



## SavageSS

bowesmana said:


> Where did you get yours from? I see Ryda have a good price on the Sapphire HRM @ 644.85 + shipping. Not sure what they're like though.


Globe Trekker.
I got the Black Ambit2. $494 +$50 voucher. They are local to me but postage is free to Australia.

I did a summary of prices, this may help others, although I did not price for the Saphire (all prices are without HR)


http://www.clevertraining.com/p-8114-suunto-ambit2.aspx - $500 (-10% with code X8W66T ) $30 DeliveryTotal $479http://www.ryda.com.au/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=956100 - $494 + $9.95 DeliveryTotal $504http://www.highlytunedathletes.com.au/Suunto-Ambit2-Black.html $549 + free DeliveryTotal $549Suunto Ambit2 with HRTotal $549http://www.heartratewatchcompany.com $500 - (10% with code (ask me) $30 Delivery via Shipito
Total $480http://www.globetrekker.com.au/suunto-watches/suunto-ambit-2-watch-bonus-free-gift-black/ $495.00 + $50 Voucher + free DeliveryTotal $495http://www.activestride.com.au/p-1126-suunto-ambit2-black.aspx $549.00 + free Delivery (10% army discount)Total $549Buy new Suunto AMBIT2 Black without Heart Rate Monitor | OutdoorGearStore.com.au 1800 432 778Total $549 or $522


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## littlewaywelt

Fenix vs Ambit...Argh... There is no clear winner, despite what Mystro says. 
If you are outdoor focused (hiking, backpacking, climbing) probably Fenix. 
If you are athletic focused (training, multisport, running) probably Suunto.
For an athlete's comparison, you are better off comparing Ambit to Garmin 910, 610.

Comparing useful features and benefits is always a personal thing.

FWIW, since I got my Ambit in January I have not used my Garmin 610 once. I run 30-50 miles per week. The 610 does several things better than the Ambit, but for an overall choice, I prefer the Ambit. I have used Garmin training watches since their first GPS for runners, the Forerunner 101 and also owned the 205, 305, 405 and 410. I never owned the 910 because I don't do the triathlon thing. I've used the Vector since it came out in 1998 and the Core since it's inception. Both make excellent watches, but their target markets are different.


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## martowl

SavageSS said:


> Thanks to everyones view on this thread, made me investigate a lot more into a watch, I even got to try mates Fenix for a day.
> 
> In the End, I put a deposit down on the Ambit2. THe Fenix is a great watch but there was some things to me personally I prefered on the Ambit / Ambit2.
> 
> I actually prefer the menu system in the Ambit, love I can get PTE and Recovery on the watch while exercising, and really prefer Movescount, although MX Activity Mover worked a treat.
> I ended up getting a great price for Ambit2.
> I may still get a Fenix later down the track, I loved the GPS tools it has, they would come in very handy.


Congrats, I think you will be happy and if you have both, I do not, I would probably use the fenix for my fastpack trips and the Suunto for training and competition. Maybe I shoulda kept my Ambit1 and purchased a fenix instead of the Ambit2........my only issue is from what or_watching has posted it would take a week to understand how to use the fenix and then at least a day of remembering what to do before I left with it


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## m9w

Ambit 2 memory for log files.

I've been reading this thread with exactly the same thoughts about the memory capacity of the Ambit 2. With no way to save the data from the Ambit 2 apart from a laptop, I too had heard that the memory was a lot larger.
A simple search for "suunto ambit 2 memory" seems to confirm this.
But just to be clear, ANY references to memory increases are incorrect and just relate to the ability to store and run more Apps. There has been absolutely no change in the storage capacity for log files.

I was looking to upgrade from the Ambit to Ambit 2 for this alone, but only got a straight answer when I went to the top at Suunto.

So this information is something I am confident is accurate.

It was explained that the log capacity at a 60 sec interval is more than 50hours, probably nearer 100hours according to their tests. I've asked how accurate this is. If I get any further info I will let you know.

But to be clear, this is exactly the same storage capacity as the Ambit.


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## cue003

m9w said:


> Ambit 2 memory for log files.
> 
> I've been reading this thread with exactly the same thoughts about the memory capacity of the Ambit 2. With no way to save the data from the Ambit 2 apart from a laptop, I too had heard that the memory was a lot larger.
> A simple search for "suunto ambit 2 memory" seems to confirm this.
> But just to be clear, ANY references to memory increases are incorrect and just relate to the ability to store and run more Apps. There has been absolutely no change in the storage capacity for log files.
> 
> I was looking to upgrade from the Ambit to Ambit 2 for this alone, but only got a straight answer when I went to the top at Suunto.
> 
> So this information is something I am confident is accurate.
> 
> It was explained that the log capacity at a 60 sec interval is more than 50hours, probably nearer 100hours according to their tests. I've asked how accurate this is. If I get any further info I will let you know.
> 
> But to be clear, this is exactly the same storage capacity as the Ambit.


Thanks for that info and confirmation directly from suunto.


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## m9w

I'm torn between the two. I just like the feel and function of the Ambit2 (I even got rid of the Ambit once I read about the increased memory in the Ambit 2 - mistake) but the Fenix provides more of what I need for long trips away from laptops.

Now if the Ambit 3 has larger log storage, bluetooth file transfer, laptop independent settings, and true track back then my decision would be easier


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## pjc3

m9w said:


> But to be clear, this is exactly the same storage capacity as the Ambit.


I currently have 22 logs in my Ambit2. I can never remember having access to this many in the original. Any Ambit1 owners out there?


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## bowesmana

pjc3 said:


> I currently have 22 logs in my Ambit2. I can never remember having access to this many in the original. Any Ambit1 owners out there?


Not sure about log count on the different watches, but syncing the Ambit 1 on average takes about 140 seconds. Syncing Ambit 2 takes about 300 seconds. Either there is a sync problem, (well we know there is with A2) or there is double the amount of memory to trawl through when syncing logs.


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## bruceames

martowl said:


> This is great can you give more details.... 1s or 60s GPS fix, HR or no HR? how many hours of activities were stored??? When I originally asked Suunto I was told 50h storage at 60s GPS fix and 16 h at 1 sec GPS fix with HR data and altitude data at 10s and 1s, respectively.


The above figures are for battery life, not storage. I believe the Ambit2 will store 1 sec data (with r-r) for much longer than 15 hours, although how much more I really don't know. Since Suunto (for some reason) won't say exactly, the best way to find out would be to have all your logs at 1 sec and see how many hours are stored on your watch when you know it's full (when oldest logs are getting replaced as you record new ones).


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## bruceames

So with the fleet of new features and fixes on this latest update, where do you think the Ambit2 stands now, in comparison with the Fenix (it's main competitor)?


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## chbla

bruceames said:


> So with the fleet of new features and fixes on this latest update, where do you think the Ambit2 stands now, in comparison with the Fenix (it's main competitor)?


same question here - I'm unsure which one to chose.

Both watches received a lot of updates - which one would you buy for what purpose?


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## Joskoumi

Hi!does anyone knows if the Fenix counts distance while swimming? thanks!!!


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## Gunnar9090

I know this thread is winding down, but does anyone have any thoughts on the new fenix 4.2 beta phone notifications? I actually sold my fenix 5 months ago because of waterproofing issues and lack of some features (for running and cycling) I desired. But, with the newly waterproofed units coming out last spring and this new firmware upgrade I'm sold (again) on the fenix.

If the Ambit2 can come up with mobile transfer of data as well as phone notifications I could be convinced on that too.


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## morey000

Joskoumi said:


> Hi!does anyone knows if the Fenix counts distance while swimming? thanks!!!


naw. garmin don't swim. well, it's waterproof, but it doesn't do swimming stuff like the 910xt or the Ambit2's.
Garmin Tactix In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker

And to answer the prior question above- no, the ambit2 won't get firmware to do the phone notifications. It doesn't contain bluetooth hardware. So- it will never do that.


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## martowl

Gunnar9090 said:


> I know this thread is winding down, but does anyone have any thoughts on the new fenix 4.2 beta phone notifications? I actually sold my fenix 5 months ago because of waterproofing issues and lack of some features (for running and cycling) I desired. But, with the newly waterproofed units coming out last spring and this new firmware upgrade I'm sold (again) on the fenix.
> 
> If the Ambit2 can come up with mobile transfer of data as well as phone notifications I could be convinced on that too.


I read DC Rainmaker's update on this and there is a big bummer with the Bluetooth, no ANT+, you get one or the other. And the Fenix/Tactix does not work with Bluetooth HR monitors so if you planned to use this feature while exercising and use an HR monitor, Tempe or Footpod it is a no go. For me the multisport capabilities of the Ambit2 and ease of operation keep me in the Suunto camp. I do agree it is an interesting update, would like this on a day to day watch.


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## JoggWithoutDog

martowl said:


> I read DC Rainmaker's update on this and there is a big bummer with the Bluetooth, no ANT+, you get one or the other. And the Fenix/Tactix does not work with Bluetooth HR monitors so if you planned to use this feature while exercising and use an HR monitor, Tempe or Footpod it is a no go. For me the multisport capabilities of the Ambit2 and ease of operation keep me in the Suunto camp. I do agree it is an interesting update, would like this on a day to day watch.


I posted here one of the first news about Ambit2 last year (just a few days before the model was officially offered) and now maybe a new model of Polar will also try to "win the battle": The new Polar V800 ... news will come next Monday - so the title could be changed into "Garmin Fenix VS Suunto Ambit2 VS Polar V800"? 
JwD/A alias Joachim


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## pjc3

JoggWithoutDog said:


> I posted here one of the first news about Ambit2 last year (just a few days before the model was officially offered) and now maybe a new model of Polar will also try to "win the battle": The new Polar V800 ... news will come next Monday - so the title could be changed into "Garmin Fenix VS Suunto Ambit2 VS Polar V800"?
> JwD/A alias Joachim


We are all indebted to you.


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## JoggWithoutDog

pjc3 said:


> We are all indebted to you.



Polar V800 - HRDLPN
JwD/A alias Joachim


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## morey000

JoggWithoutDog said:


> Polar V800 - HRDLPN
> JwD/A alias Joachim


Wow- this watch has real potential. As a recent purchaser of an Ambit2S I've really enjoyed getting to know the training features (EPOC, PTE and especially Recovery Time). I didn't think I would use those much, even though I religiously loaded my Powertap data into Golden Cheetah and tracked all my TSS, ATL, etc metrics. To have a watch that puts all my activity together into a total training stress/fatigue calculation AND have it share all this with a smartphone app- seems like the holy grail of the endurance athlete. Granted- I'd need to buy a new HR monitor and power meter- so this might get expensive, but it could all be worth it. The fact that it comes in a 12.7mm thick (thin!) package and has the battery life for an IM or a 50mi ultra- and, can be worn as a watch (take that 910xt!)&#8230; and solves the swimming HR issue- Polar, you've got potential!
I'm not an early adopter- so I'll wait to see if the product firmware is stable and the online and smartphone tools are well integrated- but Polar is heading in the right direction.

First look at Polar's new V800 GPS triathlon watch | DC Rainmaker


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## JoggWithoutDog

morey000 said:


> Wow- this watch has real potential. As a recent purchaser of an Ambit2S I've really enjoyed getting to know the training features (EPOC, PTE and especially Recovery Time). I didn't think I would use those much, even though I religiously loaded my Powertap data into Golden Cheetah and tracked all my TSS, ATL, etc metrics. To have a watch that puts all my activity together into a total training stress/fatigue calculation AND have it share all this with a smartphone app- seems like the holy grail of the endurance athlete. Granted- I'd need to buy a new HR monitor and power meter- so this might get expensive, but it could all be worth it. The fact that it comes in a 12.7mm thick (thin!) package and has the battery life for an IM or a 50mi ultra- and, can be worn as a watch (take that 910xt!)&#8230; and solves the swimming HR issue- Polar, you've got potential!
> I'm not an early adopter- so I'll wait to see if the product firmware is stable and the online and smartphone tools are well integrated- but Polar is heading in the right direction.
> 
> First look at Polar's new V800 GPS triathlon watch | DC Rainmaker


You are right ... I would never buy a high-priced watch in advance anymore ... in Germany we have a saying for that "a burnt child avoid the fire"  ... so let's wait for a while what future will bring


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## bruceames

OMG that watch is sooo ugly. I would never let that be seen on my wrist. Never!


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## kizer

Fenix died this past week. I got 2years out of it and started constantly shutting off and even when I recharged the battery when it got down to 30% it would simply shut off. I was wearing it daily as a watch and really liked it, but since I do wear it when I race it was time to go because the last 3 races it shut off less than 30minutes in. 

REI where I live said they have had many people return the Fenix for the same reason so I bought an Ambit 2 and other than having to use their website to view/upload my data I don't have a real problem. 

I was gunghu over all the Navigation features and then realized how often do I really use them? I always carry my Garmin 62 Map when I'm trekking anyways so the lack of true Navigation on the Ambit isn't a big deal.

Gotta wonder what Garmin truly thinks of the Fenix when they wont even give Fenix its own Forum section on its on website. Egads


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## gpglns

Regarding the Polar V800 I moved from the RCX5 to an Ambit2 and even though I think that the RCX5 is an OK watch I am really disappointed with Polar when it comes to issues solving, firmware updating etc and the main reason of my disappointment is that simply they dont provide any!

For example despite everyone complaining about only have 4 phases in the interval training mode or for the customized HR zones resetting or for the lack of altitude readings in the watch screen they never did anything to fix them. And of course they have their proprietary equipment and some of it is totally crap like the cadence sensor that doesn't have either a user replaceable battery or another charging option so once the 1 euro battery dies you have to buy a new 40 euros sensor!

Anyway I hope that they will improve their products in the future but for now I am not willing to move back to Polar.


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