# Sticky  Project 300: Dial design (thread reboot)



## enkidu

At Bill's suggestion, I've taken what I find to be the more relevant images from the Project 300: Dial and case design thread.

*ASPSPR*
sterile








no date white hands | no date silver hands















black date wheel | white date wheel















Alternate scripts
















*enkidu*
reduced mkii and circle-y









*stew77*
new vs old seamaster 300







































*ASRSPR*
Byron font









*m.and*
Posted by Thieuster, SM300 style dial and hands by MKII









*kywong*
Comparison shot between ASRSPR: original has narrower bezel; thicker silver ring between bezel and dial, 3, 6, 9 markers are wider and shorter; original's hour indexes are larger and squarer;









*kywong*
Microgamma font, hour markers edited, bezel width reduced









*OmegaCosmicMan*
Lombritz font + date at 4:30 









*Yao*
A-D comparisons










*es355*
Original Seamaster 300 with rounded date window








Watchco Seamaster 300 with squared date window









*kywong*
Simple Serif font example with 9 and 6 still using open fonts.









I apologize for copying the url's of the images from the other thread, but really couldn't see how to restart the thread without the images. I also apologize for any mistakes in summarizing the objective behind the images; wholesale copying of all the text would also have been impractical. I'm sorry if my editorial scissors left your post and or image on the floor; feel free to reply with a copy of your content if you deem it relevant.


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## marchone

I am reposting this from the original thread here in response to the many comments made about the original SM300's fonts.

Details of the SM300 changed substantially from 1957 to 1969. Fonts, indices, markers, hands, bezel, all changed during its production.

A History of the Omega Seamaster 3oo


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Hey, Thanks for doing this. :-!


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## OmegaCosmicMan

As Yao Said...



> Okay the picture came out okay. So the differences are:
> 
> A & B: I just removed the Circle-Y
> C & D: D has the Circle-Y removed. Both C & D are missing the word "Automatic" under the logo.
> 
> To be honest I am not a fan of the open 9s and 6s. I think its just too close to the original.
> 
> Basically I'd like to see where people come out on the layout and the text. Ultimately the 3, 6, 9 and the proportions may have to change based on the way the bezel looks and once the case design is done.


I've been thinking carefully about this and agree with Bill...that the 'open 9s and 6s' are not necessary for this watch. As Bill said, he thinks it is just too close to the original. When you study the actual Omega font used on the open 6s and 9s, you can see how, on many subtle details, that they were much more complicated (rather than simple). So not only is it 'too close', from the homage watchmaker's point of view, these open and stylized fonts might be one more difficult aspect of the steps necessary to turn out finished dials that pass muster in terms of detail and quality in order to make it to the finished product. Simpler is easier to do, from a pass/fail point-of-view in terms of part rejection because of defects in quality or finishing.

After considering all of the alternatives, and even though I would absolutely like to see the name of the watch on the dial face, as Bill said, because of the perfection of the 'Seamaster' name and the perfectly flowing font developed to show it, it will be very difficult to come up with a way to show 'Project 300' in a way that meets that standard of, well (for lack of a better term) elegance. So I can go along with 'simpler is better'- Why not go for something that is simpler, cleaner or leaner, and functional? We all know it is an Automatic movement-no need to designate that on the dial, and the depth rating is a functional designation that fits. So I am in favor of keeping the dial simple and clean. The Vantage dial is a good example (even though it has 'Automatic' on it).









So keep it simple: MKII above; one line of text with the depth rating below. Option D for me!


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## Semuta

I would bow out of this if it had closed 9's and 6's. I just think it deviates too much from the original and strays too much into the realm of a copy. That's actually one of the indicators of a badly faked dial before they started getting good...


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## marchone

Click on the link for the SM300 history I posted above. It was introduced with closed letters.


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## Thieuster

Apart from the 'open vs. closed' lettering, I personally think that OPEN lettering is a quality sign! Being able to print the lettering on the dial very precisely with an even spacing is difficult. i think that Bill raised the bar with the Kingston dial and (imho off course) the open lettering is the next step in MKII's quality design! 



Menno


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## ljb187

Does anybody know the name of the font MKII uses in its "MKII" logo?


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## David Woo

I kinda miss the stubbies.


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## chris7013

Just out of curiosity.. How much relief can we expect from the lume? The originals are very pronounced because of the thick application. I realize we can get brighter longer lasting lume these days with less, but I would like to see the indices much thicker than the numbers. Is this planned / possible? 
Chris


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## enkidu

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Hey, Thanks for doing this. :-!


my pleasure! Glad to be able to help out.


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## kywong

I have to agree with Semuta and Thieuster on the open lettering - I can't help but associate closed lettering with a poor quality fake. It would appear from marchone's link that while the first Seamaster 300s do use closed lettering, the first of the watches with the case design this project aims to emulate (1964) is already using open lettering.

That being said, I think the choice of font for the 3 6 and 9 is more important than whether the 9 and 6 are closed or open. Indeed, the first Seamaster 300's as shown in marchone's link had closed font and doesn't look any less beautiful because of it. However, if the end product uses, say, Arial for the numbers, it'll look cheap no matter how well executed the rest of the watch is.


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## Neily_San

Hi Bill,

Just a few thoughts ...

Big Triangle : a must for me. 
Date : I can take it or leave it, but if it is included then it must have rounded corners.
Numbers : open font please.
Name : I would still prefer the "Project 300" in script-like font. However I accept I appear to be in the minority on this now :-(
Circle-Y : I would rather leave off. 
Automatic : please include under the MKII logo. 

All the best. 
:-D
Neily


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## ljb187

First time I've tried something this. I wanted to provide an option/another take for what might be included on the dial.

1) MKII has two distinctive watch lines. Adding this information to all their dials would create a sense of continuity while emphasizing that the watch in question is an MKII. I added white lettering in two examples, but my thinking was that using gold lettering for the Professional series and silver for the Specialists would help to distinguish MKII's watches from the originals they often pay homage too. I like "Pro Series" for the Professional line because it's to-the-point and modern which and suits MKII's viewpoint. My preference may have been to match the font here with the one used in the logo, but since I didn't know what that was I choose one that had a little extra heft

2) I'm not a big fan of then name Project 300 (it sounded "clubby" to me) but felt that abbreviating it on the dial gives it a useful amount of terseness and adds a bit of mystique.

3) I moved MKII logo closer to the tip of the triangle (similar to the placement of the Omega logo on the SM300). The Microsoft font I used for the name looks OK, but is just a placeholder for now.

For better or for worse, I like the bolder presentation of option A

















As I stated in the other thread, I found a font called Tierra Nueva (not used on the examples but shown in the screenshot below) which I like for its historical appearance as well as its roots in seafaring and exploration. I thought this font might be especially suitable for MKII dive watches:


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## Yao

Thanks again Enkidu.


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## Yao

Semuta said:


> I would bow out of this if it had closed 9's and 6's. I just think it deviates too much from the original and strays too much into the realm of a copy. That's actually one of the indicators of a badly faked dial before they started getting good...


You raise an interesting point and perspective. The fact that a lot of bad fake SM300s essentially has colored people's view of what the watch should look like and raising the point that one would actually have more freedom to deviate from the original if it were not for the fakes out there. I would just pose the notion that the font on the dial should be consistent in style (although not necessarily the exact same font) as that on the dial, bezel, and date wheel. The other thing I would note that perhaps the we are focusing too much on an individual detail and that even if we decide to used open or closed 9's and 6's it will be the consistency in style that will carry the watch. Whereas the fakes out there were always short on a detail that they were trying to copy rather than trying to present a unified and cohesive representation of the SM300. I would suggest that its the lack of cohesion that made those other watches bad rather than the a strict attention to detail regarding the original.

Does that make sense?


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## enkidu

Yao said:


> Thanks again Enkidu.


It was my pleasure! Glad to be able to help out.


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## Yao

Here is the lume shot finally. I had meant to post this about 1 week ago but the servers here on WUS happened to go down half-way through my creating the post.















Sorry for the color which is a bit off in the daylight shot. I think I mentioned this before but I am not too familiar with this camera. I downloaded a free light meter for my IPhone which I will have to try next time and see if I get a better result.

One point to mention...I am not entirely sure the lume on the dial of the Omega sample is C3 it may be "Natural" rather than C3 if that makes a difference to any one. The other detail is that the lume application method Omega used on these replacement dials is not the same method we will be using on the Project 300 and its not even the same method they used back in the 50s. The method we normally use on our Mk II dials is the same basic method the industry used back in the 50s.


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## Yao

Thieuster said:


> Apart from the 'open vs. closed' lettering, I personally think that OPEN lettering is a quality sign! Being able to print the lettering on the dial very precisely with an even spacing is difficult. i think that Bill raised the bar with the Kingston dial and (imho off course) the open lettering is the next step in MKII's quality design!
> Menno


My suggestion at this point is to proceed with the dial design using the closed numbers for the time being. Since the dial essentially gets printed last we can change it later after we have the mock-up of the whole watch done. I really think seeing the whole watch together may change people's minds. I am also hoping that the final design will create something that feels similar but also has its own character. If enough people still feel strongly about the open and closed numbers we can make the adjustment near the end.

For the time being let's settle the orientation of the text and logo on the dial as well as any font suggestions.


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## Yao

ljb187 said:


> 3) I moved MKII logo closer to the tip of the triangle (similar to the placement of the Omega logo on the SM300). The Microsoft font I used for the name looks OK, but is just a placeholder for now.


Oh good I thought I was hallucinating.
 



ljb187 said:


> As I stated in the other thread, I found a font called Tierra Nueva (not used on the examples but shown in the screenshot below) which I like for its historical appearance as well as its roots in seafaring and exploration. I thought this font might be especially suitable for MKII dive watches:
> 
> View attachment 696979


Actually I like this font as well. I don't know if its right for this project but let's get some reactions from some others.

I will also see if I find time to send out an e-mail to all of the Plankowners. I'd like to get some more diversity in the feedback.


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## ljb187

Yao said:


> Oh good I thought I was hallucinating.


I have that affect on people.


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## G-Junkie

ljb187 said:


> 2) I'm not a big fan of then name Project 300 (it sounded "clubby" to me) but felt that abbreviating it on the dial gives it a useful amount of terseness and adds a bit of mystique.


How about just "300" and omit the word "Project" completely? It will eliminate the clubbiness, but retain or even enhance that mystique. If you feel that "300" seems a little meager on its own, then perhaps "MKII 300"?


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## OmegaCosmicMan

C3 for me! Thanks, Bill.



Yao said:


> Here is the lume shot finally. I had meant to post this about 1 week ago but the servers here on WUS happened to go down half-way through my creating the post.
> 
> View attachment 711783
> View attachment 711784
> 
> 
> Sorry for the color which is a bit off in the daylight shot. I think I mentioned this before but I am not too familiar with this camera. I downloaded a free light meter for my IPhone which I will have to try next time and see if I get a better result.
> 
> One point to mention...I am not entirely sure the lume on the dial of the Omega sample is C3 it may be "Natural" rather than C3 if that makes a difference to any one. The other detail is that the lume application method Omega used on these replacement dials is not the same method we will be using on the Project 300 and its not even the same method they used back in the 50s. The method we normally use on our Mk II dials is the same basic method the industry used back in the 50s.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

I really like the Lombritz font as shown above (in my attempt at a dial mock-up), but could live with Sur Script from ljb187's post. I don't really care to change the name or add "Professional" or any of that other Hoo-Haw others have suggested. I could live with "300" I suppose, but that isn't strictly the name that the plank owners settled on through the poll we all participated in - i am actually somewhat irritated that others, who don't like the name "Project 300" , keep suggesting ways to get around it by adding or subtracting....oh well, I'm tired and cranky. Best to leave it at that. 

Edit: I can live with Bill's suggestion and trust his judgment, for the depth rating nomenclature '300 m ~ 1000 ft' to appear in lieu of 'Project 300' on the dial face.

Simpler is better! C3 lume (it's brighter! It will last longer and shine more!), closed 6's and 9's - this watch has the unique opportunity to be very distinctive with its own style that pays homage to the original Omega inspiration, but it shouldn't go so far as to be perceived to be a 'copy' in any way. I think it may even be more appealing than the Omega - it certainly seems that way to me. Thanks for the opportunity to speak up. Now, off to bed I go - Regards to all, -Best.


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## Yao

Memorial Day weekend is approaching and I realize a lot of people probably have been offline but if we can't get more feedback soon I will push ahead with the design where I think it should go based on the comments received so far.


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## ljb187

Yao said:


> Memorial Day weekend is approaching and I realize a lot of people probably have been offline but if we can't get more feedback soon I will push ahead with the design where I think it should go based on the comments received so far.


So long is the watch has a mother of pearl dial, diamond indexes and a quartz movement the rest is small beer.


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## MHe225

Yao said:


> ..... if we can't get more feedback soon I will push ahead with the design where I think it should go based on the comments received so far.


Mr. Bill, is my assumption correct that you're also incorporating the feedback and comments from the close https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-300-dial-case-design-566886-10.html thread? 
If not, then I'm happy to compile my feedback / views / wishes and post them here as well (although that would defeat the purpose of the thread reboot).

Happy Memorial Day / Weekend to all - enjoy an extra day off and safe travels for those who do.

RonB


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Yao said:


> Memorial Day weekend is approaching and I realize a lot of people probably have been offline but if we can't get more feedback soon I will push ahead with the design where I think it should go based on the comments received so far.


Please, go ahead. I'll rely on your good taste, and proven judgment - Time flies by. And, I hope your weekend is a Good One.


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## chris7013

I'm good with moving forward, the longer we wait the more ideas pop up that I like. Digging the MKII automatic dial no date BT and maybe with Automatic in gilt lettering. Biggest thing I cant wait to see it how the crystal and bezel insert turn out. Date window if it's there has to be rounded I agree and again I'm curious about how thickly applied the lume will be. Any Ideas guys?


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## enkidu

Oh, I assume the dial will be matte? I'm afraid I don't know if the original had matte or smooth/shiny dials. Or perhaps with the sapphire bezel, a smooth dial will look better? Or, even cooler, could the sapphire be made matte?


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## kywong

BGW9 for me - personally I don't like the green hue C3 exhibits under daylight. We seem to have gone back to exploring ways to make "Project 300" work on the dial, but I still think Bill's "300m~1000ft" suggestion is the best option.

I'd love for the design to be pushed ahead Bill!


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## OmegaCosmicMan

I strongly prefer the C3 Super-Luminova, and I like the slightly off-white appearance - it looks vintage without being obviously faux-vintage, and it performs much better functionally - One look at the 'lume shot' posted by Bill previously confirms it is much brighter in darkness, and after all, why do watches have luminescent materials at all? 

That being said, if the majority prefer BGW9, I can live with it. 

I prefer Bill's Dial "D", and actually prefer Bill's closed 6's and 9's, but whether or not they end up that way, won't break the deal for me.

What would break the deal for me is if the dial gets loaded up with 'Pro,' 'Professional', gilt 'Automatic' in addition to circle-Y, or some other designation other than Project 300, or '300m~1000ft', so please don't do that. 

The more I look at Bill's dial "D", the more I like it.

I think it would be a nice addition to see a cohesive selection of font(s) for the numbers that will appear in the bezel and on the dial - Very important, and critical to achieving the correct balance and look.

And as others have said, I think the rounded-corner date window is better looking than the modern squared alternative with sharp corners. (I'll probably pick non-date anyway, unless it ends up positioned at 4:30 like the Vantage dial, or if some other spectacular thing develops.)

And again, please, let's move forward. 

Hope all remain safe, and travel safely this weekend (if that is in your plans). 

Let us remember those who have preserved, and continue to preserve our Freedoms on this Memorial Day.


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## eganwh

I vote for pushing forward.

My three big wants for the project are:
1. Big Triangle
2. C3 Lume
3. No script fonts anywhere - I like all the alternative fonts proposed by *ljb187 *for the name


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## Neily_San

Bill,

Go, go, go. Let's move forward. 
Great to have a voice, but ultimately trust your judgement. 

:-D

Neily


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## G-Junkie

I guess i'm one of the few bgw9 guys. I don't think the green tinged markers would match well with a silver and black watch. c3 looks great on the kingston because it actually complements and tones down the gold trim of the dial. put that green on the 300 dial and i think it will distract more from the watch instead of having the entire assembly look good. Good example of what i'm referring to are the vintage Seiko 6105s and the 6309s. Have you ever seen the all original watches vs aftermarkets/replica dials? they are worlds apart in terms of elegance and balance. That green tinge on the aftermarkets were far too much of a distraction and it ends up lowering the look of the entire watch.

I also don't think it's too much of a sacrifice in lume "performance." It's not like anyone will be diving for 8 hours to actually need the extra oomph and hour of glow from the c3. And going back to the color balance... I think the blue will complement better with the fit and finish of the 300 watch than the c3 would.


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## enkidu

I'm with you G-Junkie: I like the cleanness of a black/silver/blue-white color scheme. Either would look good, but I like the extra kick of the BGW9 coloration; the C3 makes the watch look a bit, umm, old. I may not get carded that often, but I prefer the newer look. Plus blue-white goes better with my usual color scheme.


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## chris7013

I've had every one of the vintage Seiko divers I can get my hands on






and G-Junkie is dead on with the color and how it looks on the watch. The only thing I question is the same thing I've been questioning for the past few months. How thick will the lume be applied? I hope it's in heaps and would like an answer even if it's not what I want to hear. Here's one of my now gone 6105's and this is what vintage white lume is supposed to look like. Yes I know the bezel insert is aftermarket but the dial was a swapped NOS and I challenge you to find better. My 62MAS on the other hand has been relumed in the crap green color.


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## AR15fan

If I might add and to some this might be far fetched or cryptic but why not call it MIIK CCC........


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## MHe225

AR15fan said:


> If I might add and to some this might be far fetched or cryptic but why not call it MIIK CCC........


Not far fetched or cryptic at all (at least not in my book): https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-300-watch-name-566882.html#post4158617, but it is not what was agreed / decided by the majority vote. Although several people seemed to like this name (suggestion), it didn't make the poll :think: and the democratic process gave us _Project 300_ as the official name. 
Some will argue though, that this sounds clubby and that abbreviating it (_Prj. 300_ or just _300_) or changing altogether (MKII 300) will sound better .... ;-)

RonB


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## Neily_San

AR15fan said:


> If I might add and to some this might be far fetched or cryptic but why not call it MIIK CCC........


Please let's not re-open the name debate. As far as I recall we paid our deposits, voted, and chose "Project 300".

Neily


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Neily_San said:


> Please let's not re-open the name debate. As far as I recall we paid our deposits, voted, and chose "Project 300".
> 
> Neily


:think: I agree completely - The Project 300 name has already been decided, and to take up this again is just going to amount to a fruitless waste of time and energy.

For those who do not like the name that was decided by majority vote - well, Get over it! o|


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## OmegaCosmicMan

AR15fan said:


> If I might add and to some this might be far fetched or cryptic but why not call it MIIK CCC........


You are more than a day late, and more than a dollar short. The name of the watch is Project 300 and was decided some time ago - Go back and read the name poll and results.


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## Yao

enkidu said:


> Oh, I assume the dial will be matte? I'm afraid I don't know if the original had matte or smooth/shiny dials. Or perhaps with the sapphire bezel, a smooth dial will look better? Or, even cooler, could the sapphire be made matte?


Original dial is matte.

The luminous material will be applied in 4 layers, which is our standard and the most that the process that we use will allow. The luminous application process is similar to what they would have used in the 50s. It is not really advisable to add more lume to the dial as it will possibly conflict with the hour hand clearance.


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## Yao

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> I strongly prefer the C3 Super-Luminova, and I like the slightly off-white appearance - it looks vintage without being obviously faux-vintage, and it performs much better functionally - One look at the 'lume shot' posted by Bill previously confirms it is much brighter in darkness, and after all, why do watches have luminescent materials at all?
> 
> That being said, if the majority prefer BGW9, I can live with it.
> 
> I prefer Bill's Dial "D", and actually prefer Bill's closed 6's and 9's, but whether or not they end up that way, won't break the deal for me.
> 
> What would break the deal for me is if the dial gets loaded up with 'Pro,' 'Professional', gilt 'Automatic' in addition to circle-Y, or some other designation other than Project 300, or '300m~1000ft', so please don't do that.
> 
> The more I look at Bill's dial "D", the more I like it.
> 
> I think it would be a nice addition to see a cohesive selection of font(s) for the numbers that will appear in the bezel and on the dial - Very important, and critical to achieving the correct balance and look.
> 
> And as others have said, I think the rounded-corner date window is better looking than the modern squared alternative with sharp corners. (I'll probably pick non-date anyway, unless it ends up positioned at 4:30 like the Vantage dial, or if some other spectacular thing develops.)
> 
> And again, please, let's move forward.
> 
> Hope all remain safe, and travel safely this weekend (if that is in your plans).
> 
> Let us remember those who have preserved, and continue to preserve our Freedoms on this Memorial Day.


We are not going to settle all of the issues with the next stage. What my plan is is to show you guys a more complete mock-up of the watch. I will make some decisions but still leave open others (e.g. lume color). The idea will be to focus the decisions you guys have to make so that we can keep moving forward (e.g. I will show you guys more . That and I plan on e-mailing the rest of the Plankowners to see if I can get some more feedback from a larger pool of customers.


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## Yao

Neily_San said:


> Please let's not re-open the name debate. As far as I recall we paid our deposits, voted, and chose "Project 300".
> 
> Neily


No worries the name is not up for debate any longer.


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## Yao

chris7013 said:


> I've had every one of the vintage Seiko divers I can get my hands on and G-Junkie is dead on with the color and how it looks on the watch. The only thing I question is the same thing I've been questioning for the past few months. How thick will the lume be applied? I hope it's in heaps and would like an answer even if it's not what I want to hear.


The lume will be applied in 4 layers using a silk-screen method. This is the standard method we use on all of our dials. 4 layers is the maximum possible with this process.

I hope that was the answer you were looking for....


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## Neily_San

Yao said:


> No worries the name is not up for debate any longer.


Many thanks Bill.

:-D

Neily


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## Chronopolis

I'm in!
Would be nice to see a "menu" of options when all's said and done, so we can "vote". 
Each design has it's + and -
Might be easier to see in one swoop when the finalists - say 3 or 4 - are presented.


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## ljb187

Chronopolis said:


> I'm in!
> Would be nice to see a "menu" of options when all's said and done, so we can "vote".
> Each design has it's + and -
> Might be easier to see in one swoop when the finalists - say 3 or 4 - are presented.


There goes the neighborhood! (Though I've got to admit that 's pretty good idea)


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## Chronopolis

ljb187 said:


> There goes the neighborhood! (Though I've got to admit that 's pretty good idea)


Them people who organize them Miss America Pageants - they know what they're doin. 
THAT's how you run a watch* project business.

* On a subconscious level, watches = boobs.


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## chris7013

Exactly what I was looking for in an answer Bill and I thank you.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Thank You, Bill! Progress, please......


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Chronopolis said:


> Them people who organize them Miss America Pageants - they know what they're doin.
> THAT's how you run a watch* project business.
> 
> * On a subconscious level, watches = boobs.


:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d :think::think::think: :-d:-d :-!


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## Yao

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Thank You, Bill! Progress, please......


I will be working on a more detailed mock-up today. I think we can have a more meaningful discussion after we see the watch as a whole. I don't k now if the mock-up will be ready for publication today though.


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## Reintitan

How about engraving the name on the caseback instead of putting it on the dial?

My preference would be a Big Triangle 3-6-9 no-date dial with "MKII Automatic" below the triangle.
I would also accept the above with a Circle-Y (in a thick circle and a thick Y font) above the 6.


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## Yao

To lead off this is just a first cut to show you guys I am working on the case design. The following should be noted:

* The dial is just showing what I had at the time. This isn't the final dial. The area between the center and 6 o'clock is just empty for the time being
* The bezel insert design is just a modified Blackwater design I had and it looked roughly right. This is just to give the dial and case body some context. A lot more work needs to be done to the insert.
* Yes there is no crown yet and obviously there isn't a space for it yet in this mock-up
* The case dimensions are based on the survey (41.25 across the bezel and 48.60 mm end to end) The length isn't necessarily final but as I mentioned before I tried to keep the length down. My first impressions are that the dimensions work and the length is good but I haven't fully thought through the ramifications.

Let me know your thoughts but try not to be too specific. This is just the first cut hot off the presses. I didn't want to leave too much time between updates.


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## enkidu

I like the overall ratios a lot! The size and placing of the MKII AUTOMATIC looks just about perfect to me as do the size/weights of the indices. Slightly round the corners of the bezel triangle and I think the bezel would be close to perfect. The font of the 369 looks a tiny bit thin/light but just might be because the hands are missing. It could also be because the font of the bezel numbers is overpowering the 369 font. Great start!


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Well said - My thoughts exactly.

Thank you, Bill.


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## sunster

enkidu said:


> I like the overall ratios a lot! The size and placing of the MKII AUTOMATIC looks just about perfect to me as do the size/weights of the indices. Slightly round the corners of the bezel triangle and I think the bezel would be close to perfect. The font of the 369 looks a tiny bit thin/light but just might be because the hands are missing. It could also be because the font of the bezel numbers is overpowering the 369 font. Great start!


Plus 1. Very well put.
Nice to see the first mock up. Looking good ahead


----------



## kywong

That's a great start Bill.

My only criticisms are that the dial should be bigger (the gap between the edge of the hour markers and the edge of the chapter ring should be minimal, and the minute markers right to the edge), and the lugs could probably be a little thinner.


----------



## Yao

enkidu said:


> I like the overall ratios a lot! The size and placing of the MKII AUTOMATIC looks just about perfect to me as do the size/weights of the indices. Slightly round the corners of the bezel triangle and I think the bezel would be close to perfect. The font of the 369 looks a tiny bit thin/light but just might be because the hands are missing. It could also be because the font of the bezel numbers is overpowering the 369 font. Great start!


Great and insightful feedback.


----------



## Yao

kywong said:


> That's a great start Bill.
> 
> My only criticisms are that the dial should be bigger (the gap between the edge of the hour markers and the edge of the chapter ring should be minimal, and the minute markers right to the edge), and the lugs could probably be a little thinner.


You beat me to it. However the curve on the sapphire crystal will begin to distort print that is too close to the edge of the case opening as currently represented. My idea was to make the case opening slightly smaller and then bevel it and polish it to give it the feel of a retention ring. This watch won't have or need a tension ring to hold the crystal in. It won't be exactly the same since the retention ring actually covers up part of the crystal itself but it might give it an extra touch that add to the design.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

kywong said:


> That's a great start Bill.
> 
> My only criticisms are that the dial should be bigger (the gap between the edge of the hour markers and the edge of the chapter ring should be minimal, and the minute markers right to the edge), and the lugs could probably be a little thinner.


Wow! - Great eye for detail you have - very well put. Thanks- |>

To me, the font size for the 3-6-9 appears either too small, or not emphasized somehow compared to the 12-Triangle.


----------



## MHe225

Not much (if anything) that I can add that hasn't been said already; enkidu and kywong sum it up nicely:


bezel overpowers the dial
3-6-9 font is too small / bezel font too large
thinner lugs please
overall size and ratio is very pleasing

Looking good |>

RonB

_*Project 300* - $350 deposit paid 27 months ago and counting ..... 
__*GO Kingston* - $350 deposit paid 24 months ago and $585 remainder 12 months ago and counting ..... 
*Project GMT* - $600 deposit paid almost 5 months ago and counting ..... _


----------



## chris7013

I think for a mock up it's looking good. No sense in me nit picking this early as I'm sure everything will be more precise as it evolves. As far as the comment about the lugs being thinner, I cant say I agree. I'm trying to picture it in 3D and it seems like it will balance perfectly with the side of the case I have pictured in my head. Thanks for the progress Bill.


----------



## wats911

I'd echo most of what's been said - I think Bill is off to a great start here. Not sure I would want to see the lugs too much thinner, part of the appeal to the SM300 (for me anyway) is it's chunkiness. Can't wait to see a second draft. I'm especially curious to see how the insert is going to look. We're still thinking sapphire, correct? I hope so, as that'll really give the Project 300 a unique look.


----------



## ht8306

I am so excited with this project and can't wait to see the real prototype


----------



## Yao

I am taking small bites of the apple as I go. The are a lot of details that need to be worked out such as the hand size relative to the dial and as noted earlier the font sizes on the dial and the bezel.

I hope that you guys are beginning to see the dial design in context though. With the hands, as they are now drawn (which is also in its preliminary stages) the font sizes of the text seem too big to me. The 3, 6, and 9 are still too small but as we put the pieces together I think we can start to see proportions are really key to getting this right. The hands are just taken from our stock set of MOD Sword hands but the more I look at it I still have to tweak the proportions of the hands which will just drive me nuts. It took forever to get the proportions just right for the hands we offer now but there is a subtle difference between the feel of the MOD Sword hands on the Milsub and what they probably need to be for this project.

My wife helped me out and found a font for the "Project 300" text that I want to try. I hope to get this done next week so that you guys can see the options side by side. Here we just have the depth rating with and without the Circle-Y. Everything else is the same otherwise.

I also put in the "faux-retention" ring. That is why there is less black space between the edge of the minute track and the case opening. There is quite a gap between the inner diameter of the bezel and the case opening but that is the space where the bottle cap style sapphire crystal is supposed to sit. This area is obscured by the crystal itself. I may still need to adjust it but it won't be as noticeable with the crystal installed.

Let me know your comments about the hands, dial, bezel, text, etc....


----------



## Reintitan

Hi Bill,

I think you are right, the font on the depth rating and the word "AUTOMATIC" are too big. The hour hand also seems to be too short or that just may be my eyes playing tricks on me.

As for the name "Project 300" is putting it on the caseback rather than on the dial a possibility?


----------



## Yao

Reintitan said:


> As for the name "Project 300" is putting it on the caseback rather than on the dial a possibility?


Yes it is. I have a new font and design idea in mind that might be able to make Project 300 look good on the dial but it will be next week until I can mock it up.


----------



## enkidu

Aside from the font-size issues already noted, I like the font selection and layout. I prefer the circle-Y version by a tiny bit, the circle-Y providing a central unifying element for the 3-6-9, with Project 300 added, it'd probably look better without the circle-Y.

The hand shapes look great to my eye, but each might be a wee-bit off in terms of size; the hour hand looks a wee bit long/big, the seconds hand's spear head looks a wee-bit small, and the minute hand might be an itsy-bit short. but I'm probably wrong. That's in comparison to the original of course, I actually like the hour hand size above; I always thought that the original SM300's hour hand was too stubby.


----------



## Reintitan

Yao said:


> Yes it is. I have a new font and design idea in mind that might be able to make Project 300 look good on the dial but it will be next week until I can mock it up.


Bill, another comment on the circle-Y. Would it be possible to make the font and thickness closer to that of the circle-T found on milsubs and/or even on the current CWC divers. It is very thick:


----------



## chris7013

I don't know if this will make sense and these are just my thoughts while looking at the mock-ups. To me the hour hand should come just short of the long hour indices and it should mirror the thickness of the big triangle. However long you want the pointed end to be should be the same width as the triangle would be at that same point. The minute hand should sweep the minute hash marks where the shoulder of the point begins and the hand should match the hour indices in width where the shoulder crosses them. The seconds hand looks right for length, any longer and I wonder if it would be to distorted by the crystal. Any chance the base of the seconds hand arrow could be widened to match the minute hand width? I hope this was somewhat rational, it's late.



Yao said:


> I am taking small bites of the apple as I go. The are a lot of details that need to be worked out such as the hand size relative to the dial and as noted earlier the font sizes on the dial and the bezel.
> 
> I hope that you guys are beginning to see the dial design in context though. With the hands, as they are now drawn (which is also in its preliminary stages) the font sizes of the text seem too big to me. The 3, 6, and 9 are still too small but as we put the pieces together I think we can start to see proportions are really key to getting this right. The hands are just taken from our stock set of MOD Sword hands but the more I look at it I still have to tweak the proportions of the hands which will just drive me nuts. It took forever to get the proportions just right for the hands we offer now but there is a subtle difference between the feel of the MOD Sword hands on the Milsub and what they probably need to be for this project.
> 
> My wife helped me out and found a font for the "Project 300" text that I want to try. I hope to get this done next week so that you guys can see the options side by side. Here we just have the depth rating with and without the Circle-Y. Everything else is the same otherwise.
> 
> I also put in the "faux-retention" ring. That is why there is less black space between the edge of the minute track and the case opening. There is quite a gap between the inner diameter of the bezel and the case opening but that is the space where the bottle cap style sapphire crystal is supposed to sit. This area is obscured by the crystal itself. I may still need to adjust it but it won't be as noticeable with the crystal installed.
> 
> Let me know your comments about the hands, dial, bezel, text, etc....
> 
> View attachment 737048


----------



## Neily_San

Reintitan said:


> Bill, another comment on the circle-Y. Would it be possible to make the font and thickness closer to that of the circle-T found on milsubs and/or even on the current CWC divers. It is very thick:


I will, of course, trust in Bill's judgement and be happy with this watch whatever decision is made ... but I really hope the circle-Y does not make it onto the final dial design.

Neily


----------



## enkidu

chris7013 said:


> I don't know if this will make sense and these are just my thoughts while looking at the mock-ups. To me the hour hand should come just short of the long hour indices and it should mirror the thickness of the big triangle. However long you want the pointed end to be should be the same width as the triangle would be at that same point. The minute hand should sweep the minute hash marks where the shoulder of the point begins and the hand should match the hour indices in width where the shoulder crosses them. The seconds hand looks right for length, any longer and I wonder if it would be to distorted by the crystal. Any chance the base of the seconds hand arrow could be widened to match the minute hand width? I hope this was somewhat rational, it's late.


Don't agree with your hour hand length at all. The length you are suggesting would make it caricature of the original SM300. Look at some pictures of the original SM300 in this thread and among of the defining features are the shapes and lengths of the hour and minute hands.


----------



## chris7013

I think some pictures may describe what I'm thinking better. http://www.9naliga.com/image/mypic_news/seamaster300 date.jpg As you can see the hour hand comes just short (relative term) of the long hour indices. http://www.9naliga.com/image/mypic_news/SM 300 big triangle.jpg The triangular tip of the hour hand mirrors the big triangle. http://www.9naliga.com/image/mypic_news/8(2).jpg The minute hand is the same width as the long hour indices and its tip cuts through the minute hash marks right at the edge of the bevel. I realize these are three different variations of dials and hands and that alone proves my point. We are making a homage not a copy and in my mind the proportions work.


----------



## jussi

Yao said:


> I am taking small bites of the apple as I go. The are a lot of details that need to be worked out such as the hand size relative to the dial and as noted earlier the font sizes on the dial and the bezel.
> 
> I hope that you guys are beginning to see the dial design in context though. With the hands, as they are now drawn (which is also in its preliminary stages) the font sizes of the text seem too big to me. The 3, 6, and 9 are still too small but as we put the pieces together I think we can start to see proportions are really key to getting this right. The hands are just taken from our stock set of MOD Sword hands but the more I look at it I still have to tweak the proportions of the hands which will just drive me nuts. It took forever to get the proportions just right for the hands we offer now but there is a subtle difference between the feel of the MOD Sword hands on the Milsub and what they probably need to be for this project.
> 
> My wife helped me out and found a font for the "Project 300" text that I want to try. I hope to get this done next week so that you guys can see the options side by side. Here we just have the depth rating with and without the Circle-Y. Everything else is the same otherwise.
> 
> I also put in the "faux-retention" ring. That is why there is less black space between the edge of the minute track and the case opening. There is quite a gap between the inner diameter of the bezel and the case opening but that is the space where the bottle cap style sapphire crystal is supposed to sit. This area is obscured by the crystal itself. I may still need to adjust it but it won't be as noticeable with the crystal installed.
> 
> Let me know your comments about the hands, dial, bezel, text, etc....
> 
> View attachment 737048


- looks a little like the "300 m - 1000 ft" is a tad to long...
how about "300m - 1000ft" instead?

- I like the cirkle Y


----------



## enkidu

chris7013 said:


> I think some pictures may describe what I'm thinking better. http://www.9naliga.com/image/mypic_news/seamaster300%20date.jpg As you can see the hour hand comes just short (relative term) of the long hour indices. http://www.9naliga.com/image/mypic_news/SM%20300%20big%20triangle.jpg The triangular tip of the hour hand mirrors the big triangle. http://www.9naliga.com/image/mypic_news/8(2).jpg The minute hand is the same width as the long hour indices and its tip cuts through the minute hash marks right at the edge of the bevel. I realize these are three different variations of dials and hands and that alone proves my point. We are making a homage not a copy and in my mind the proportions work.


Thanks! Great pictures, but I think the length of the hour hand is being exaggerated by the parallax error from the angle at which the pictures are taken. Here's the opposite parallax / exaggeration







and a straight on shot







. I don't have a good feel for what you mean by 'just short of'; the hour hand in Bill's mockups seem a little long compared to the original to me, while it sounds like you want the hour hand to be longer, which given the shape of the hand would make it much too big in my mind.

I don't think we're that far apart on terms of design expectations, I suspect that it is more the difficulties of expressing subtle design ratios using text instead of exchanging ideas in person with pen and paper.


----------



## chris7013

Agreed


----------



## Thieuster

enkidu said:


> Thanks! Great pictures, but I think the length of the hour hand is being exaggerated by the parallax error from the angle at which the pictures are taken. Here's the opposite parallax / exaggeration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a straight on shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I don't have a good feel for what you mean by 'just short of'; the hour hand in Bill's mockups seem a little long compared to the original to me, while it sounds like you want the hour hand to be longer, which given the shape of the hand would make it much too big in my mind.
> 
> I don't think we're that far apart on terms of design expectations, I suspect that it is more the difficulties of expressing subtle design ratios using text instead of exchanging ideas in person with pen and paper.


Nice posting. A real reality check!

Menno


----------



## chris7013

Your post has been bugging the hell out of me the way you mentioned the parallax as if I didn't take it into account. I'm sure you didn't mean it in that way even though the first picture you used illustrates the point by using a different dial and what look like aftermarket hands. The second pic with the 12 3 6 9 dial shows the perfect dimensions I was trying to explain and find a picture of looking right down the center wheel pinion. The hour hand with this dial is much closer to touching the indices, the minute hand is exactly as I described, and the seconds hand has the perfect amount of lume real-estate within the delicate border of white. That is the look I hope we can come as close as possible to. 
Chris



enkidu said:


> Thanks! Great pictures, but I think the length of the hour hand is being exaggerated by the parallax error from the angle at which the pictures are taken. Here's the opposite parallax / exaggeration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a straight on shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I don't have a good feel for what you mean by 'just short of'; the hour hand in Bill's mockups seem a little long compared to the original to me, while it sounds like you want the hour hand to be longer, which given the shape of the hand would make it much too big in my mind.
> 
> I don't think we're that far apart on terms of design expectations, I suspect that it is more the difficulties of expressing subtle design ratios using text instead of exchanging ideas in person with pen and paper.


----------



## enkidu

chris7013 said:


> Your post has been bugging the hell out of me the way you mentioned the parallax as if I didn't take it into account. I'm sure you didn't mean it in that way even though the first picture you used illustrates the point by using a different dial and what look like aftermarket hands. The second pic with the 12 3 6 9 dial shows the perfect dimensions I was trying to explain and find a picture of looking right down the center wheel pinion. The hour hand with this dial is much closer to touching the indices, the minute hand is exactly as I described, and the seconds hand has the perfect amount of lume real-estate within the delicate border of white. That is the look I hope we can come as close as possible to.
> Chris


Hey Chris, I agree that I'd be thrilled if the Project300's hands looked like a brand new version of the example shot. I apologize if you took my comments about parallax that that way! Didn't mean to offend you or your judgement. Let's try a reset:
















I think that Bill's current mockups are very close to the original, if anything the length of the hour hand looks a tiny bit long and the minute hand looks a tiny bit short when compared to the original example above. The second hand looks just about spot on for me. What do you guys think?


----------



## chris7013

I think the mockups are just about perfect as far as the dial and hands going together. The only thing that doesn't look right to me is the bezel insert when compared to the bottom photo, as far as the triangle pip's shape and the font size of the numbers. As far as the dial print goes its one of the least important things to me. I'm sure it will turn out well balanced and would be happy with either example. 
The good news is I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. No, not from where we are. I saw it in a picture taken by a Kingston owner about a year ago o|. I think we have a long way to go unfortunately, but have faith Bill wont rush anything and sacrifice quality.



enkidu said:


> Hey Chris, I agree that I'd be thrilled if the Project300's hands looked like a brand new version of the example shot. I apologize if you took my comments about parallax that that way! Didn't mean to offend you or your judgement. Let's try a reset:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that Bill's current mockups are very close to the original, if anything the length of the hour hand looks a tiny bit long and the minute hand looks a tiny bit short when compared to the original example above. The second hand looks just about spot on for me. What do you guys think?


----------



## Thieuster

Did you guys take in consideration that the hands of the mock up are white and so is the framework of these hands. On the Seamaster pictured here, the hands' framework have a different color. This alters the way you're looking at the pics when you're comparing the mock up and the Seamaster! I would like to suggest that Bill's proposal is (near) perfect.

Menno


----------



## chris7013

I'm up in the air over silver vs white hands and leaning toward silver. Both will work for me so it's not a deal breaker either way.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

I prefer the silver hands, but could live with white. ( Corrected: The second hand appears to be white on all of the originals I looked at.)

I would prefer NOT to see the 'Circle Y' on any version of this particular watch.

I would like to have 'Automatic' dropped from the dial - not needed.

The 'mIIk' logo could be made larger and placed lower between the 'big triangle' and the center of the dial.

And perhaps the depth rating could be configured as '300m~1000ft' (without the spaces) to take up less space.

I wonder if the big triangle could be a snitch smaller? It almost looks a little large to me.

Hand length as you all have discussed above may be close to perfect. The proportions or tapers may be worth looking at though. I am still ruminating on this. Been looking at a lot of pictures of the originals, and there are differences. 

Bottom line on all of this though, as Bill knows, is that, it is the combination of all these elements working together that will determine the overall 'elegance' or perfection of the style-design. 

Thank you for the opportunity to be heard, and I hope I have contributed to moving this forward.


----------



## Semuta

Well, I'm pretty sure the hands will be mixed, with silver hour and minute hands and a white second hand. This is one of the defining characteristics of the original watch so I'd be surprised if it didn't transfer over here.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Semuta said:


> Well, I'm pretty sure the hands will be mixed, with silver hour and minute hands and a white second hand. This is one of the defining characteristics of the original watch so I'd be surprised if it didn't transfer over here.


Yes, I screwed up (when I said what I did) in my previous post. After I went back and looked again at several original examples, I realized that in every case, the second hand was actually white. Adds greatly to visibility and the ability to track the hand while moving, especially in low light. I'll have to go back and edit that post. I'm sorry - I was certainly wrong- Thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## Semuta

I don't think I've ever seen this dial. Is it fake or some obscure 70's model? If fake, the hands would probably be fake as well.


----------



## ASRSPR

Time for me to jump back into the P300 design threads. I just picked up a Watchco SM300 recently and can now more readily appreciate the differences between it and the Precista PRS-14.





I think that the latest mockups from Bill are really looking very sharp. I like how the "Automatic" text helps mirror the OMEGA text in the original and the circle-Y is really necessary to balance things out if we're not going to have "Project 300" on the dial. I'd prefer both, of course, but just the depth rating works pretty well too.


----------



## Yao

Reintitan said:


> Bill, another comment on the circle-Y. Would it be possible to make the font and thickness closer to that of the circle-T found on milsubs and/or even on the current CWC divers. It is very thick:


Yes we could do that.


----------



## Yao

Semuta said:


> Well, I'm pretty sure the hands will be mixed, with silver hour and minute hands and a white second hand. This is one of the defining characteristics of the original watch so I'd be surprised if it didn't transfer over here.


Yes that is correct. The shade of gray that I used on the hands turned out too light when I created the JPEG.


----------



## Yao

Here is the latest draft. Now that we got the broad strokes down its a matter of refining what we have. We still have to decide what we are going to do about the text on the dial but I have to mock up the other options for you. Sorry I didn't get that font yet to test out the "Project 300" text on the dial. For the time being I took the comments made as well as my own closer look at some reference images to make the following changes:


I made the "silver" parts of the case darker in color so that they stand out more easily. The insert is still in "aluminum" mode which will have to change. Mostly the markers and numerals will change to white instead of the silver they are now. 
Hour markers were tweaked smaller. 
The minute track was shortened 
Circle-Y was made slightly thicker in stroke 
Shrank the words "AUTOMATIC" and moved the positioning up on the dial 
3, 6, and 9 made larger 
Minute hand adjusted but hour hand left the same 
Seconds hand hasn't been updated yet. I have to take a closer look at this.
I tweaked the spacing of the numbers on the bezel insert and adjusted the size of the hash marks to be thinner and longer. 

Everything else is the same. The cases have been aligned so that you can better reference the differences between the two version. The version numbers are referenced at the top of their respective mock-ups.

Let me know what you guys think. As we get more refined its going to get harder 

I still have to work on the side profile which is generally more difficult than the top view because then things actually have to start matching up in 3D.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

I really like the changes you've shown to the minute track, the hour markers and the bezel layout. It's amazing how small subtle changes like this seem to "Open Up" if you will, the dial. I like the new spacing of the mIIk logo and automatic. It's a great improvement - Thanks for showing us this! |>|>


----------



## siess

New dial looks good - but I am not sure about the smaller font.

I prefer with the circle Y.


----------



## Reintitan

*I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*

Ship it! :-d

I might be beating a dead horse, but can we make the Circle-Y font even thicker? b-)

Everything else is spot on.

If we do end up with having the name "Project 300" engraved on the case back (my personal preference |>) can we do the super thick and deep engravings like the French MN did on their issued Rolex ref. 5513 Submariners? Probably the most awesome engraving I've ever seen.










Keep up the good work Bill.

Thanks,
G.


----------



## coris

I agree with the second mock-up. Looks more balanced, especially with the MKII logo up higher.

I would also agree with the above posters about omitting the Circle-Y. I would prefer just a minimalist "_300_" in that spot, or a _Project 300_ there.

Hope this helps!

Just my thoughts.


----------



## enkidu

Wow, the minute track makes a huge difference! I think all the changes are moving in the right direction. I think the numbers on the bezel might have strayed a bit too far apart with regard to their kerning, but the widely differing weights of the the numbers makes it a bit of a sticky wicket. The minute hand length looks perfect to me now. A part of me wants the bezel triangle's corners to be rounded, like in the original; another part likes the similarity to the shape of the big triangle on the dial. It was looking good, now it's looking better. Thanks!


----------



## Yao

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*



Reintitan said:


> If we do end up with having the name "Project 300" engraved on the case back (my personal preference |>) can we do the super thick and deep engravings like the French MN did on their issued Rolex ref. 5513 Submariners? Probably the most awesome engraving I've ever seen.


This is an interesting idea. It would be kind of in the same vein as the COMEX watches too.


----------



## giosdad

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*

I really like the latest changes made to the dial.


----------



## ASRSPR

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*

Bill, any chance of flat-top As?


----------



## Yao

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*



ASRSPR said:


> Bill, any chance of flat-top As?


Sure but where would they go?


----------



## garyscott

*Go!*

Has a date at 4 o'clock already been ruled out? I love the 3,6,9 on the dial, but I also rely on my watch to check date, yeah, I'm old school!


----------



## garyscott

Has date at 4 o'clock already been shot down? I really like the 3,6 and 9...but I actually use the dat function of my watch alot and would like to see a mock up of date at 4 o'clock.


----------



## Yao

garyscott said:


> Has date at 4 o'clock already been shot down? I really like the 3,6 and 9...but I actually use the dat function of my watch alot and would like to see a mock up of date at 4 o'clock.


We aren't at the point where we can decide the date window placement. Its more important to get the design tightened up and then we can work on the date window placement.

There will be a date and a non-date version available. But there will only be those two options.


----------



## eganwh

Yao said:


> 2. Hour markers were tweaked smaller


Why? Compensate for the larger 3, 6, 9 markers? Looks like the original SM300 hour markers are about two minute tracks wide at the base and the 3.1 dial is roughly 1.75 minute tracks wide.

I certainly like how the dial is progressing. Have we settled on the bezel fonts yet, or is that open for discussion?


----------



## chris7013

I'd like to see the fonts also and will hold judgment because I have no idea what would look best. As far as the dial goes, the progress is very nice to see and while I wish the hour hand was close to the hour indices I really like how shortening them opened the dial. Keep up the good work Bill and thanks for the update. 
Chris


----------



## ASRSPR

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*



Yao said:


> Sure but where would they go?


I mean, in the word "Automatic".


----------



## kmangino47

i like the new dial


----------



## gordonf

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*



Yao said:


> This is an interesting idea. It would be kind of in the same vein as the COMEX watches too.


I like the new dial and the idea of doing a deep case back engraving. Maybe along the lines of:

P-300
001


----------



## artefact0

siess said:


> New dial looks good - but I am not sure about the smaller font.
> 
> I prefer with the circle Y.


Me too !


----------



## MHe225

*Zero sum:*

*+1* on deep case back engraving

*-1* on circle Y

RonB


----------



## ljb187

MHe225 said:


> *Zero sum:*
> 
> *+1* on deep case back engraving
> 
> *-1* on circle Y
> 
> RonB


I pretty much agree with this. I've got no philosophical/design issues with the circle Y, but this watch is very busy and crowded by default. Leaving the circle Y off this time around gives the dial room to breathe just a bit. Also, I've been on board with a simple engraved case back since the idea was first presented. It's a strong and effective way to acknowledge the watch's history.


----------



## kywong

Absolutely love the latest mock-up! The balance of the big triangle could make or break the design for me, and I think Bill nailed it in this version. The dial does look just a shade small to me relative to the case and bezel, but I suspect that it would be perfect once the domed crystal is installed.

Otherwise, I think the main thing that needs ironing out at the moment is the fonts for the bezel and dial. The font for 3, 6 and 9 would definitely need to be wider and/or shorter. Also, the minute markers in all the picture I've came across of the original runs right to the edge, although it looks like the WatchCo's one do not.

Finally, love the deep engraving idea on the case back but no circle Y please!


----------



## laughinggull

I'm liking how this is shaping up and can't wait to order one of these....Looking very sharp Bill


----------



## WiscOmega

Long time away from the forum, but an e-mail from Bill on this project brought me back. As a "planker", I really like the new dial design... echos some of the elements found in my sword hand Seamaster from 7 or so years ago.

+1 to the deep back engraving

+1 to the circle Y. The dial is busy, but this features does not detract from the dial because of the small size compared to the hour markers and hands

This bad boy already has a place next to the planked Kingston in my watch box. Can't wait.


----------



## kkmark

+1 to deep caseback engraving
+1 for circle Y

I like the way the design is progressing.

Is there some way to play with the design of the seconds hand so it looks unique, as opposed to it being a very very close copy of the original?


----------



## WS65

I really like the v3.1, but I would drop the circle Y.


----------



## Yao

eganwh said:


> Why? Compensate for the larger 3, 6, 9 markers? Looks like the original SM300 hour markers are about two minute tracks wide at the base and the 3.1 dial is roughly 1.75 minute tracks wide.
> 
> I certainly like how the dial is progressing. Have we settled on the bezel fonts yet, or is that open for discussion?


Bezel font is not decided yet. The one shown is a modified version we used on the Blackwater

I am having a hard time visualizing your point about the hour markers. If you can explain it a different way I would appreciate it and see what there is to improve.


----------



## Yao

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*



ASRSPR said:


> I mean, in the word "Automatic".


Yes I think we can try that out and see what it looks like. The printing will be so small though that the resolution may not allow for the detail to really come through.


----------



## Yao

ljb187 said:


> I pretty much agree with this. I've got no philosophical/design issues with the circle Y, but this watch is very busy and crowded by default. Leaving the circle Y off this time around gives the dial room to breathe just a bit. Also, I've been on board with a simple engraved case back since the idea was first presented. It's a strong and effective way to acknowledge the watch's history.


Ok noted RonB and ljb187


----------



## Yao

kkmark said:


> Is there some way to play with the design of the seconds hand so it looks unique, as opposed to it being a very very close copy of the original?


I guess I would have to ask what kind of "character" you think it should have or if you have a different style of sweep already in mind. The Milsub sweep perhaps from the LRRP?


----------



## ASRSPR

Yao said:


> I guess I would have to ask what kind of "character" you think it should have or if you have a different style of sweep already in mind. The Milsub sweep perhaps from the LRRP?


This is an interesting point because I've always thought that the SM300's second hand was the most incongruous part of its design. It doesn't extend to the outer edge of the second marker track and the different color is a curious choice. It's not terrible, but maybe these can be some of the things to improve on in Mk II fashion.


----------



## kkmark

Yao said:


> I guess I would have to ask what kind of "character" you think it should have or if you have a different style of sweep already in mind. The Milsub sweep perhaps from the LRRP?


I think some design flair can be injected into the seconds hand to make it unique to this watch. I don't have anything in mind...but I wasn't thinking necessarily of just having the Milsub sweep transplanted from the LRRP...

Color - could be white but as ASRSPR pointed out, maybe the same color as the other hands?
Front end - could the triangle be broadened slightly or lengthened?
Back end - what if you rounded the edges?

Just some thoughts.

I recall looking at your Milsub sweep on Clayman's Sandoz Milsub (when I used to own it) and thinking "wow" this sweep hand is definitely recognizable as a Mk II seconds hand.


----------



## G-Junkie

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*

I like just about all of the changes to the latest design, except for the circle Y (I prefer it 86'd from the dial). and the second hand. It just doesn't mesh well with rest of the watch. I think it stands out far too much. the hands are chrome, the retaining ring is chrome, but the second hand is pure white. I don't think making the second hand chrome would help because, even though it will subdue the second hand, it would also make the entire watch more bland. I don't think giving the hour markers chrome trim would help because it would look all too busy.

... now what I'm going to suggest is going to be very sacrilegious and perhaps not in tune with the "Omega" or "MKII" fashion, but it might help balance the dial greatly. Would you think inverting the pivot point of the second hand might help tone down the second hand? So instead of the wide headed second hand, we now have a wide tail. The lume would still be there, but on the opposite end of the pivot. I think this will tone down that second hand, yet still make it distinct from the rest of the dial and still be able to keep the balance at the same time.

edit: the seafighter's second hand in this forum's banner is a good example of what i'm referring to. except it will have a lumed spearhead shaped tail. The tail side of the pivot point could be painted black, while the head side of the pivot point is white.


----------



## Alan B

I would also vote for deleting the circle Y and going for a simple and deeply engraved treatment for the back. Impressive what a difference small changes make. Moving the MkII and automatic up made the entire dial seem more roomy. I like the second hand with the diamond shaped pointer. Makes more sense to me to have that to follow around if using the second hand for timing. 
Alan B


----------



## djgallo

Alan B said:


> I would also vote for deleting the circle Y and going for a simple and deeply engraved treatment for the back. Impressive what a difference small changes make. Moving the MkII and automatic up made the entire dial seem more roomy. I like the second hand with the diamond shaped pointer. Makes more sense to me to have that to follow around if using the second hand for timing.
> Alan B


Move the MKII Automatic to the case back. Put the circle Y in its place. This will clean up the dial - super clean!:-!


----------



## Neily_San

Alan B said:


> I would also vote for deleting the circle Y and going for a simple and deeply engraved treatment for the back.


+1 for moving the circle-Y to an engraving on the case back.

Neily


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

+1 for moving the circle-Y to an engraving on the case back.


----------



## dsewell

*Re: I like the tweaks in v3.1 >>>*

I like the changes to the dial. I also like the idea of moving the circle y to they back and the thick engraving.


----------



## ljb187

*3, 6, 9*

Guys:

An opinion about the numbers so far. I like that the 3, 6, and 9 have been made thicker in v3.1, but feel that while this style/font was perfect for the Vantage, it's too sterile for the Project 300. While I don't think it's necessary to use open 6s and 9s, I do think the numbers should reflect and enhance the character of the 300's design. As it stands, the clean lines of v3.1's numbers are almost jarringly out of place in an otherwise appealingly rough-around-the-edges design... sort of like wearing Dockers and a Polo shirt when visiting an NCO's club at the dive school in Porstmouth.

v3.1









Omega's original font is rounder, shorter and squater then v3.1 (big triangle w/date...my favorite configuration)









If that's too close, then something that gives off the same type of vibe used in MKll's own Type 2 dial would be worth considering









In a nutshell, numbers that are chunkier, squater and with more "quirks" as opposed to more perfectly formed and elongated is what I'm suggesting.


----------



## Yao

I will pick this up when I get back.


----------



## gman54

Yao said:


> I will pick this up when I get back.


Bill, How about an update on the P300 project.

Thank you Bill and regards, gman54


----------



## marchone

Neily_San said:


> +1 for moving the circle-Y to an engraving on the case back.


Another thought is to use the Circle Y to sign all Mk II crowns.


----------



## Yao

Its taken me this long to get things back to a normal routine again. I will resume work on the design next week. 

Ljb's comments on the font are interesting and I think I understand what he means but its going to be hard to find something that is perfectly imperfect.


----------



## Yao

I am currently working on the profile of the watch. This is where it gets really tricky. Drawing any watch from the front is relatively easy. However I want to get the side view started as well. If I spend all of the time getting the fonts correct on the front view I will end up leaving a huge amount of work undone when everyone will assume the design is a fait accompli when in reality its only half done. Also if I can get the case close to done we might be able to start the technical drawings sooner and then continue work on the dial and insert. This way we will have two processes running in parallel.

I would like to get the top and sides close to done so that we can spend the rest of the remaining design time on the fonts and tweaks. 

However please do continue discussion of the dial and insert. I will check in.


----------



## ljb187

Yao said:


> I am currently working on the profile of the watch. This is where it gets really tricky....I would like to get the top and sides close to done so that we can spend the rest of the remaining design time on the fonts and tweaks.
> 
> However please do continue discussion of the dial and insert. I will check in.


I'm thinking something like this:









If we're all in agreement the matter has been reduced to simply figuring out where to place the movement so that the little alien creatures have a bit of leg room. Now, about those fonts...


----------



## artefact0

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



ljb187 said:


> Guys:
> 
> An opinion about the numbers so far. I like that the 3, 6, and 9 have been made thicker in v3.1, but feel that while this style/font was perfect for the Vantage, it's too sterile for the Project 300. While I don't think it's necessary to use open 6s and 9s, I do think the numbers should reflect and enhance the character of the 300's design. As it stands, the clean lines of v3.1's numbers are almost jarringly out of place in an otherwise appealingly rough-around-the-edges design... sort of like wearing Dockers and a Polo shirt when visiting an NCO's club at the dive school in Porstmouth.
> 
> v3.1
> 
> View attachment 756707
> 
> 
> Omega's original font is rounder, shorter and squater then v3.1 (big triangle w/date...my favorite configuration)
> 
> View attachment 756708
> 
> 
> If that's too close, then something that gives off the same type of vibe used in MKll's own Type 2 dial would be worth considering
> 
> View attachment 756711
> 
> 
> In a nutshell, numbers that are chunkier, squater and with more "quirks" as opposed to more perfectly formed and elongated is what I'm suggesting.


I see the array !:-d


----------



## kywong

*Re: 3, 6, 9*

I really like the way the prototype looks, and judging by the discussion here since Bill posted the v3.1 prototype, the only remaining debates at this point seems to surround the circle Y and the font on the bezel and dial.

While Bill works on the tricky part of the design, I came across this font for the 3, 6 and 9 on the dial which I think is very close to the original without being an exact copy, and works very well closed. What do you guys think?


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: 3, 6, 9*

Pluto looks good. Somehow, I have the idea that the 3,6 and 9 should be a little larger.

Menno


----------



## artefact0

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



Thieuster said:


> Pluto looks good. Somehow, I have the idea that the 3,6 and 9 should be a little larger.
> 
> Menno


Hi,

I agree with you.


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: 3, 6, 9*

Let me try to explain (which is going to be difficult in English...)

When you draw a virtual cirkel touching all the inner edges of all hour markers, the edges of the numbers are 'flush' with that circkel. Enlarging the numbers just a little will make them more 'interesting' and stand out more. Only a little will be enough!

Menno


----------



## enkidu

I really like the Pluto suggestion.


----------



## Yao

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



kywong said:


> While Bill works on the tricky part of the design, I came across this font for the 3, 6 and 9 on the dial which I think is very close to the original without being an exact copy, and works very well closed. What do you guys think?


I think it shows great promise. What is the font called?

I was doing more work on the side view. This evening. Its starting to come together but needs more tweaking before I show you guys.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



Thieuster said:


> Let me try to explain (which is going to be difficult in English...)
> 
> When you draw a virtual cirkel touching all the inner edges of all hour markers, the edges of the numbers are 'flush' with that circkel. Enlarging the numbers just a little will make them more 'interesting' and stand out more. _Only a little will be enough_!
> 
> Menno


:think: I'm with you Menno, and I understand, and can visualize your point there - Good thought there.

|>|>


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



kywong said:


> I really like the way the prototype looks, and judging by the discussion here since Bill posted the v3.1 prototype, the only remaining debates at this point seems to surround the circle Y and the font on the bezel and dial.
> 
> While Bill works on the tricky part of the design, I came across this font for the 3, 6 and 9 on the dial which I think is very close to the original without being an exact copy, and works very well closed. What do you guys think?
> 
> View attachment 820031


That *Pluto* font looks great! Great suggestion; Thank You. I'm with Menno and think the 3, 6, and 9 could be just a tiny bit larger, and then would really stand out.


----------



## kywong

*Re: 3, 6, 9*









Haha here it is guys - a touch under 10% larger.


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



kywong said:


> View attachment 820861
> 
> 
> Haha here it is guys - a touch under 10% larger.


Thanks! That looks a lot better (imho off course)

Menno


----------



## ljb187

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



kywong said:


> View attachment 820861
> 
> 
> Haha here it is guys - a touch under 10% larger.


You have done this project a great service!


----------



## marchone

*Re: 3, 6, 9*

I like it a lot.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



kywong said:


> View attachment 820861
> 
> 
> Haha here it is guys - a touch under 10% larger.


-_*Excellent*_- (imho) :think:


----------



## pinchoff

kywong said:


> I really like the way the prototype looks, and judging by the discussion here since Bill posted the v3.1 prototype, the only remaining debates at this point seems to surround the circle Y and the font on the bezel and dial.
> 
> While Bill works on the tricky part of the design, I came across this font for the 3, 6 and 9 on the dial which I think is very close to the original without being an exact copy, and works very well closed. What do you guys think?


I hope that my comments are not extemporaneous.

I really like better Pluto font for 3,6 & 9. Thanks for finding it. I suppose that bold version of Pluto would do a little better.

All this said, I think that the importance of these numbers in our dial would deserve a graphical designer's work, taking it from Pluto (between normal and bold) and flatten the floor of the 9 and the 3, and the top of the 6, if I may suggest. We are not bound to use a standard font. Designers do this as part of a logotype designe everyday. This way we would be having a fully owned 3, 6 & 9, that could even be registered. I don't think this would be too costly.

My modest opinion.

Great work, in any case. I don't participate much due to ignorance, not to lack of interest.

Thanks!

I am linking the image on 1st post of this thread, to make it easier to see th enumbers we were talking about at that time. Numbers look thicker and larger (slightly), and have a flattened top/bottom


----------



## HJR

*Re: 3, 6, 9*

Very nice font on the numbers!!! Love the balance their rounded nature works with each other.

However, is it me or does the triangle 12 o'clock marker look bigger too than previous versions? A little too big, maybe.



kywong said:


> View attachment 820861
> 
> 
> Haha here it is guys - a touch under 10% larger.


----------



## kywong

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



pinchoff said:


> All this said, I think that the importance of these numbers in our dial would deserve a graphical designer's work, taking it from Pluto (between normal and bold) and flatten the floor of the 9 and the 3, and the top of the 6, if I may suggest. We are not bound to use a standard font. Designers do this as part of a logotype designe everyday. This way we would be having a fully owned 3, 6 & 9, that could even be registered. I don't think this would be too costly.


I agree that a graphic designer's work would be ideal, but having never been involved in a watch project, I'm not 100% sure if that is usually the case. Seeing the positive feedback Pluto has received so far, at least I think it would be safe to say that it puts us on the right track. In terms of modifications, personally I think the top and bottom of the 3 could curve inwards more, similar to the 9 and 6.

While the PRS-14 is a great homage to the Seamaster 300, I think that in some of the details it misses the mark, and we should also base this project on the original rather than the PRS-14. From what I have seen of the original, the font is not quite as thick or big as the photo above - the 9 and 6 aligning perfectly with 14/16 and 44/46 minute markers.



HJR said:


> However, is it me or does the triangle 12 o'clock marker look bigger too than previous versions? A little too big, maybe.


I didn't touch it! I may have sneakily removed the circle Y though... The big triangle should align with the 58 and 2 minute markers, and fall about 2/5 down towards the centre of the dial. The current prototype looks just about right to me as far as accuracy goes, from a design balance perspective, however, well that is up for debate.


----------



## HJR

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



kywong said:


> I didn't touch it! I may have sneakily removed the circle Y though... The big triangle should align with the 58 and 2 minute markers, and fall about 2/5 down towards the centre of the dial. The current prototype looks just about right to me as far as accuracy goes, from a design balance perspective, however, well that is up for debate.


Fair enough, must have just been my eyes playing games with me. BTW, I don't mind the missing circle-Y. Must be why I didn't notice it missing. Haha!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



HJR said:


> BTW, I don't mind the missing circle-Y. Must be why I didn't notice it missing. Haha!


+1 :think: My sentiment, exactly!! |>|>


----------



## eganwh

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



kywong said:


> In terms of modifications, personally I think the top and bottom of the 3 could curve inwards more, similar to the 9 and 6.


+1. This mod would get even closer to ideal IMHO.


----------



## Yao

*Re: 3, 6, 9*

This isn't the first draft (hence v3.8) but it's the first presentable draft. It's a pretty tedious iterative process but I thought I should show you guys something while you talk about the dial. There is still a lot more to do for the side view. Plus the 3 o'clock side is not the same as the 9 o'clock view and only a few parts of the 9 o'clock view can be mirrored over to the 3 o'clock view.

Please continue to discuss the dial. I will catch up later this week on the discussion. If this post side-tracks the dial discussion too much I will move it to its own thread.


----------



## MHe225

*Re: 3, 6, 9*



Yao said:


> .... the 3 o'clock side is not the same as the 9 o'clock view and only a few parts of the 9 o'clock view can be mirrored over to the 3 o'clock view ....


Thanks for sharing this, Bill. I know how difficult it is to show "stuff"in its infancy and designers, engineers and artists alike have a tendency to keep things close to their chest till they are final.

Can you, time permitted, elaborate on the 3 o'clock vs 9 o'clock "issue"? Is it similar to, e.g. Omega's Speedmaster Professional? That watch has an asymmetric case and more "meat' is required on the side with the crown and pushers (3 o'clock) to give the case enough strength. Which, by the way, wasn't the case with the very first Speedmasters and is being repeated in the "Schirra Speedy / First in Space Speedmaster"that's about to hit AD's as we speak.

RonB


----------



## HJR

Bill, thanks for the latest update. It looks really promising, but just a slight nit to pick.

Please bear with me, as I don't know the accuracy that these understandably progress images are meant to have, but looking at the image you posted, the lugs felt a little "bulky". So I looked at the modern Seamaster on my wrist and it is a little less "square" at the ends (see web pic, sorry about crown side, not many seamaster side views from the non-crown side):







Then looking at vintage SM300's on the web. I found this:








So I felt that the profile should be less "squared", like this:








Sorry if I went to far with the comments, like I mentioned I am new to this and an absolutely ignorant to to the art and process of watchmaking, other than the little bit of knowledge I have developed as a fan of the products of the artists, such as yourself.

All the best, 
Haz


----------



## HJR

Oops, sorry about dragging my speedmaster pic in there by mistake. I guess I am ignorant about posting on forums as well, HAHA!!!


----------



## Yao

I will be back this evening to review this thread.


----------



## Yao

MHe225 said:


> Thanks for sharing this, Bill. I know how difficult it is to show "stuff"in its infancy and designers, engineers and artists alike have a tendency to keep things close to their chest till they are final.
> 
> Can you, time permitted, elaborate on the 3 o'clock vs 9 o'clock "issue"? Is it similar to, e.g. Omega's Speedmaster Professional? That watch has an asymmetric case and more "meat' is required on the side with the crown and pushers (3 o'clock) to give the case enough strength. Which, by the way, wasn't the case with the very first Speedmasters and is being repeated in the "Schirra Speedy / First in Space Speedmaster"that's about to hit AD's as we speak.
> 
> RonB


I hope I can explain this clearly. Since the crown guards are part of the shape of the lugs as the line of that side extends away from the case the curves of the saltines section change. Creating these compound curves is time consuming and mostly an iterative process. There are some more details that are also different. I hope that helps.


----------



## Yao

HJR said:


> Bill, thanks for the latest update. It looks really promising, but just a slight nit to pick.
> 
> Please bear with me, as I don't know the accuracy that these understandably progress images are meant to have, but looking at the image you posted, the lugs felt a little "bulky". So I looked at the modern Seamaster on my wrist and it is a little less "square" at the ends (see web pic, sorry about crown side, not many seamaster side views from the non-crown side):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then looking at vintage SM300's on the web. I found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I felt that the profile should be less "squared", like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry if I went to far with the comments, like I mentioned I am new to this and an absolutely ignorant to to the art and process of watchmaking, other than the little bit of knowledge I have developed as a fan of the products of the artists, such as yourself.
> 
> All the best,
> Haz


This is great info and I appreciate the time you put into this. There is a great deal of variance in the side profile of the case. Much of this is because of polishing done to the cases over the year. Some of the other variance I have to think is down to production variances. I am working from an NOS case that, theoretically, hasn't been polished before. I will see what I can do to change the line to make the case appear lighter and thinner. I do actually like some of the polished cases and the profiles they develop.


----------



## Auswatch

I would like to see a simple version with date and no numbers, like this photoshopped attachment. I have also made the 12 o'clock lume triangle smaller - which looks less overpowering.


----------



## Yao

Auswatch said:


> I would like to see a simple version with date and no numbers, like this photoshopped attachment. I have also made the 12 o'clock lume triangle smaller - which looks less overpowering.


Its an interesting idea and looks promising but the standard dial will stick closer to the original.

As far as the Pluto font is concerned I think it looks great. I would like to modify the "3" a little though. Its a little too "rough".


----------



## Yao

Yao said:


> I hope I can explain this clearly. Since the crown guards are part of the shape of the lugs as the line of that side extends away from the case the curves of the saltines section change. Creating these compound curves is time consuming and mostly an iterative process. There are some more details that are also different. I hope that helps.


This pic I took a few minutes ago probably illustrates the difficulty of the task better than my words. as you can see the lugs start from the same point but as you get to the middle the profile changes dramatically. The right side of the case is actually lower than the left.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Yao said:


> This pic I took a few minutes ago probably illustrates the difficulty of the task better than my words. as you can see the lugs start from the same point but as you get to the middle the profile changes dramatically. The right side of the case is actually lower than the left.


(Yes, this does illustrate it....)

I see it now! 

:think: As they say, "A picture is worth 10,000 words."

(-Completely different profiles and thickness (or depth?) of that portion on the crown side of the case that forms the crown guards -)

_Thank you for your work, Bill._ |>|>


----------



## HJR

Great pic Bill! That is a wonderful detail to see.



Yao said:


> This pic I took a few minutes ago probably illustrates the difficulty of the task better than my words. as you can see the lugs start from the same point but as you get to the middle the profile changes dramatically. The right side of the case is actually lower than the left.


----------



## kywong

Thanks Bill, that indeed illustrates the problem perfectly.

Seems like the discussion has shifted towards to case; my first reaction was that the lugs look a little short, that being said, I also thought the lugs looked too thick in the front-view mockup, and now I think they look just right (after taking into account the perspective distortion in every photo I'd have seen of the actual watch). Also, I'd love to see a bigger dome, but I understand there are going to be technical difficulties associated with that.

I also like some of the thinner, polished cases but I would prefer if we go off the NOS. That way, fifty years from now we'll see Project 300 watches that are polished in the same way these Seamaster 300s we see now are.

As usual, I will never be able to fully appreciate the amount of work and difficulty this would undoubtedly involve, so thanks Bill!


----------



## Yao

I hope this Sunday I will be able to work on the dial and play with the Pluto font. The font shows real promise but I would like to tweak it.

The case I will continue to work on off-line as it is going to take a lot of iteration to get it just right. Also getting the bottom edge of the lugs to the right off-set from the case body is going to prove tricky.


----------



## Yao

This is what I have come up with so far this afternoon. Inspired by the Pluto font I strayed to take a look at the Copperplate Gothic font. I don't know why it hadn't occurred to me earlier but the Copperplate Gothic is similar but not exactly the same as the 12, 3, 6, 9 dials. So I cut off the serifs and re-worked the vertical/horizontal proportions to get what you see below. 

I also played with the font for the depth rating. Its a composite of several fonts but I hope it doesn't look like a composite of several fonts. I haven't touched the bezel font yet. 

Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## enkidu

I like v3.2 a lot. The 9 and 6 are pretty close to perfect. The 3 looks a bit odd, though. The top and bottom e tensions seem to extend too long and too straight. Thanks!


----------



## ljb187

enkidu said:


> I like v3.2 a lot. The 9 and 6 are pretty close to perfect. The 3 looks a bit odd, though. The top and bottom e tensions seem to extend too long and too straight. Thanks!


I think you're right on the money here.

Also:

I don't know how others will feel about this, but could the vintage/military presentation of this watch be enhanced by...I hope this doesn't sound rude or heretical...subsituting MKII's graphicly oriented logo with something more sterile? Perhaps along the lines of:

Mark II
Automatic

or

MK II
Automatic
​
Doing away with a company logo might actually help to take the watch even further out of homage territory and make it more of its own thing...perhaps...IWC does something like this on some of their Pilot watches (on the bottom to note the model - not on top for represent the company like I'm sort of suggesting):


















​


----------



## WS65

I like the the v3.2 Pluto version a lot.


----------



## kywong

It is quite remarkable how well Copperplate Gothic without the serif resembles the original font, the 3 looked odd to me initially but looking back at the photos of the original it does seem to be remarkably similar`. I liked Pluto partly because it resembles the original but feels a little more modern, whereas this is more faithful but still not an exact replica. I also liked that Pluto is not a font that can be found on most P.C.s, but in Bill's prototype it has been modified enough to not bother me. All things considered I think I prefer Bill's solution, ultimately I think the timelessness of the original will win out over time. One suggestion I would have, though, is that the 9 and 3 could just move a shade further away from the hour marker.

As for the depth rating, I am a fan of what is used for the Kingston/Nassau, and I would not be adversed to having the same font used. As it stands the ft just looks little too stylised for me.

Thanks Bill!


----------



## HJR

I prefer the Pluto font as they look familiar yet unique. The Copperplate font looks a little generic. I think the Pluto works well the original font was a fairly unique one, but not outrageously so. I feel the same way about the Pluto, without it being obnoxious.


----------



## Thieuster

HJR said:


> I prefer the Pluto font as they look familiar yet unique. The Copperplate font looks a little generic. I think the Pluto works well the original font was a fairly unique one, but not outrageously so. I feel the same way about the Pluto, without it being obnoxious.


Have been chewing on this one for a few days. I agree with you


----------



## Yao

Thieuster said:


> Have been chewing on this one for a few days. I agree with you


The Pluto font has been growing on me. I will take another look at it. When you blow it up it seemed strange to me at first.

I will also see what the "Kingston" font looks like for the depth rating.


----------



## Alan B

I like the Copperplate. The horizontal parts of the 3 in Pluto are too straight for me. The biggest difference I see with the 3.1 is the smaller size of the numbers. I think I like them smaller than on the original, maybe not quite as small as on 3.1. 

I think the idea of not using the the Mk II emblem on the front is a good one. It would give a more simple and utilitarian appearance. MK II looks good to me. Maybe the emblem could be on the back. In the center with the deeply cut military style letters and numbers above and below? 

Great stuff,
Alan


----------



## kywong

The more I look at the modified Copperplate, the more I'm growing to like it. Needless to say, my preference remains to be with the Copperplate font, and this coming from the guy who suggested Pluto in the first place! I see what Bill means by Pluto being a little strange when blown up, the point where the circular part of the 9 and 6 connects has a sharp angle rather than being a smooth transition.

As it stands, it looks like people are divided between Copperplate and Pluto. I've taken the liberty of putting them side by side; I made sure the font sizes are extremely close to help us compare the two. Despite my preference for Copperplate, I hope I've given Pluto it's best shot by modified Pluto's problematic 3 by sampling the hook from the 9 and 6, and shortened the middle part.









Also, to get the ball rolling on the bezel font, here's a suggestion. The font is called Museo Sans, and in here the 1 is slightly modified to remove the horizontal line across the bottom. I also moved the logo up; the original's logo is very close to the triangle, and I hope this project will have a similar logo placement. Seeing that the bezel numbers varies much more greatly from model to model than the dial numbers, I am guessing that opinion would be more divided here! In any case, what do you guys think?


----------



## HJR

kywong, great job! I really like the mods you made to the 3 for the Pluto. I originally picked the Pluto and I still think I prefer the Pluto, but the copperplate is growing on me as well. I would be comfortable with either.

As for the bezel, I really like the 1, 2, 4 and 5. I especially like the flattened top of the 4 (very Omega). But the 3 feels alien to the rest of the numbers. The angular style of the top is strange on a watch with such elegant lines. I know the 4 and 5 have angles, but they don't bother me as much.

Just my $0.10



kywong said:


> The more I look at the modified Copperplate, the more I'm growing to like it. Needless to say, my preference remains to be with the Copperplate font, and this coming from the guy who suggested Pluto in the first place! I see what Bill means by Pluto being a little strange when blown up, the point where the circular part of the 9 and 6 connects has a sharp angle rather than being a smooth transition.
> 
> As it stands, it looks like people are divided between Copperplate and Pluto. I've taken the liberty of putting them side by side; I made sure the font sizes are extremely close to help us compare the two. Despite my preference for Copperplate, I hope I've given Pluto it's best shot by modified Pluto's problematic 3 by sampling the hook from the 9 and 6, and shortened the middle part.
> 
> View attachment 852481
> 
> 
> Also, to get the ball rolling on the bezel font, here's a suggestion. The font is called Museo Sans, and in here the 1 is slightly modified to remove the horizontal line across the bottom. I also moved the logo up; the original's logo is very close to the triangle, and I hope this project will have a similar logo placement. Seeing that the bezel numbers varies much more greatly from model to model than the dial numbers, I am guessing that opinion would be more divided here! In any case, what do you guys think?
> 
> View attachment 852493


----------



## HJR

Forgot to mention I liked the location of the MkII logo where it was originally.



HJR said:


> kywong, great job! I really like the mods you made to the 3 for the Pluto. I originally picked the Pluto and I still think I prefer the Pluto, but the copperplate is growing on me as well. I would be comfortable with either.
> 
> As for the bezel, I really like the 1, 2, 4 and 5. I especially like the flattened top of the 4 (very Omega). But the 3 feels alien to the rest of the numbers. The angular style of the top is strange on a watch with such elegant lines. I know the 4 and 5 have angles, but they don't bother me as much.
> 
> Just my $0.10


----------



## enkidu

Thanks for the great mockups kywong! I disagree with you on the bezel font, I dislike the clashing shapes of the sharp top of the 3 and less sloped base of the 2. I do like the copperplate version you used. v3.2 is growing on me and I still prefer it to the positioning and fonts in your mockups. I suspect that the reason your new logo position looks good is because of the hour and minute hand positions and that the original position would work better for more hand positions.


----------



## kywong

HJR said:


> But the 3 feels alien to the rest of the numbers. The angular style of the top is strange on a watch with such elegant lines.


You have a really good point about the elegance. I actually do prefer a sloped 3 too, but to modify it from a straight to sloped top exceeds the Photoshop skill that I acquired through photography. The other numbers I thought worked best of those I've seen, but 3 proves problematic once again!



enkidu said:


> I suspect that the reason your new logo position looks good is because of the hour and minute hand positions and that the original position would work better for more hand positions.


That is an interesting thought; from what I have seen of the original, despite the logo sitting quite close to the bottom of the triangle, it works extremely well at any hand position. But obviously the MKII logo is not as tall as the Omega logo, which may have an effect on the balance of the dial if retained at the elevated position. It would be good when the dial design is at a more advanced stage for Bill to mock up multiple hand positions.


----------



## HJR

Just curious about any progress. Anxious to see this project keep moving forward. Seems like it will be a beauty!


----------



## Fabio Felix

I am sorry if this question has been answered already but how can I order or pre order one of these?


----------



## Mirabello1

Any progress on this watch ?????


----------



## pinchoff

According to MKII site....

See this link











 





Fabio Felix said:


> I am sorry if this question has been answered already but how can I order or pre order one of these?


----------



## Alan B

Hello All,
I'm hoping that things will start up again soon. Mr. Yao, any updates? 
Happy not quite new year
Alan


----------



## Lemper

Simply fantastic watches, love the white variation!


----------



## richnyc

Interesting project!!! I like to see where this is going Any pictures of the finalized design???

In any case congrats on this community-sourced watch design project Such a great idea!!!


----------



## Darwin

Any way to check to see if one is on the email list or not? I'm about 66% sure that I have registered for email progress updates and for news about ordering (missed the pre-order) but that 34% is bothering me - I'd hate to miss out! Is it safe to just cross my fingers and register (possibly again)? Cheers, Mike


----------



## Yao

I was hoping to get this update posted earlier this week but its been a long week and still a very long Friday to work through.

Here is where I am at as of last Sunday. I will return to work on the watch on this Sunday.

View attachment 1008940

[See attachment}

Basically the outline is done. There is a lot of tweaking left to do to the ends of the lugs. I am leaving that work for later as there is a more pressing issue that I have to work on. The crown placement is approximately correct but its not going to work as the case is drawn right now. The tube will basically be half in the bottom of the bezel and half in the case body itself. Then there is the matter of allowing enough space for a click spring. The original SM300 used a press fit case tube which I want to try to avoid. If possible I prefer to use a case tube that is threaded into the case body. I have some ideas floating through my mind as to how to get this done. However if push comes to shove we may have to go with a press fit case tube (which will still feature a screw down crown) since the overall diameter is smaller. A press fit case tube would have the least overall impact on the design.

On Sunday I will take a closer look at the clearances between the parts and the proportions and see if there is some space that I missed that will work in my favor. Failing that it will require a re-proportioning of the case body and the bezel to create enough space between the parts to fit everything in. This is the primary reason why I haven't starting tweaking the lug design. If I have to re-proportion the case it will mean re-shaping the lugs any way.


----------



## artefact0

Hi Bill, 
You're in the right way.|>
Come on.


----------



## Yao

Here is the latest iteration. If you have been following this thread this is a good time to chime if in you have an opinion. What I basically did is to re-proportion last week's version so that all of the parts can fit into the design. In a nutshell here is what I changed:

1) I moved the mid-section of the case up towards the crystal. Noticing after the fact that the crown placement is now closer to what the current Planet Ocean set up is like. I did take pains not to make the lug profile look like the Planet Ocean as it is too modern for this project. 
2) I decreased the height of the bezel. The reason I did this is to follow the original intent of the SM300, where the bezel is high enough to clear the crown. Keeping the bezel as tall as it was before would have meant that it was unnecessarily tall and this would have undoubtedly unbalanced the design. 
3) There is a section below the mid-section and above the case back that has gotten thicker as I basically pushed the movement farther towards the back of the case (wrist side)
4) I re-shaped the lugs because the overall watch is now almost 1 mm thinner than last week. So the lugs needed a more sleek look and the ends needed some fat trimmed from them to match the thinner case. You could say now that the lugs now better resemble some examples of the vintage SM300s where the lugs were polished down over time and through several case refinishings.

Let me know what you think. At this point what I worried about (past tense) was the crown being too close to the wrist. In reality the case back will be thick enough to create enough space between the wrist and the crown to keep the watch comfortable. I like the way the current iteration looks in my mind's eye and I feel better about the overall design since it strays far enough from the original that it won't be mistaken for one but at the same time keeps the essence of the vintage version.

As I noted at the beginning of the post that this is a good time to chime in with comments or concerns because if I keep going down this path it is pretty much irreversible. The crown location sets the design.

[See attachment]

I will pick this up again on next Sunday and I wanted to get this posted so that we could get as much commentary as possible before I started work on the next iteration.


----------



## kkmark

I like the revised version. I'd guess it would seem as if it sits a little higher on the wrist, or at least it looks that way. And it would look a little less chunky - which is good. Trying to picture how the shorter bezel would compare but am having a little trouble because of all the grey. Am glad though that the project is moving ahead. Best, Ken


----------



## artefact0

I agree with kkmark ( I'd guess it would seem as if it sits a little higher on the wrist ) |>


----------



## siess

Looks good - thinner is better, as is the lower bezel


----------



## Yao

Thanks Ken, Atrefact0, and Siess. Keep the comments coming guys.


----------



## enkidu

I'm really liking this case design. I love the overall design of the Seamaster 300, especially the lyre lugs, but the high top bezel always irked me a bit. This proposed profile looks like it will keep the original's elegance while sidestepping the high bezel problem. Looks great!


----------



## Thieuster

enkidu said:


> I'm really liking this case design. I love the overall design of the Seamaster 300, especially the lyre lugs, but the high top bezel always irked me a bit. This proposed profile looks like it will keep the original's elegance while sidestepping the high bezel problem. Looks great!


+1. That sums it up quite nicely.

Menno


----------



## Yao

enkidu said:


> I'm really liking this case design. I love the overall design of the Seamaster 300, especially the lyre lugs, but the high top bezel always irked me a bit. This proposed profile looks like it will keep the original's elegance while sidestepping the high bezel problem. Looks great!





Thieuster said:


> +1. That sums it up quite nicely.
> 
> Menno


Interesting...I would have thought you guys might like the high bezel as it is a signature part of the design. Good to know that the lower profile is preferred! I prefer the lower profile of the bezel as well.


----------



## MHe225

All that I could add has already been said, but will mention for the record that I like the way you're going |> And I will admit that I have difficulties visualizing the lugs - assuming you're working in AutoCad (or something similar), it should be relatively simple to generate a top view so we get a better feel for the lugs, no? It's also okay if you tell me to be patient ;-)

RonB


----------



## Yao

MHe225 said:


> All that I could add has already been said, but will mention for the record that I like the way you're going |> And I will admit that I have difficulties visualizing the lugs - assuming you're working in AutoCad (or something similar), it should be relatively simple to generate a top view so we get a better feel for the lugs, no? It's also okay if you tell me to be patient ;-)
> 
> RonB


Hi Ron...no I am not that fancy. We are only using Illustrator software. I want to make the transition but can't find the time to learn the new software I have. The "top view" hasn't changed yet or should I say been updated since the last iteration. I haven't given it much thought but my gut reaction is that the top view wouldn't be changed by what I have done here with the side view. The lugs are a bit more svelte but I don't think that would show up in the top view. But we will get back to the top view after I tighten up the side view some more.

My short term goal is to get at least the design finalized before I talk to the case manufacturer in Basel. I don't think I will have the detailed technical drawings done by then but I hope to have the design finalized and ready for the stage where I draw out all of the specifications and dimensions.


----------



## eganwh

I like the progress on the case thus far. I'm in favor of a thinner "less is more" approach. The placement of the crown will make or break the intrepretation IMHO. The upper portion of the bezel needs to just clear the crown. Looks like we have it nailed here. I think this was a huge miss in the PRS-14 version.

Have we settled on a lume choice yet? Still in favor of C3 to stick by the original. 

Is the crystal profile in the drawing what is proposed?

Keep on keeping on. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Yao

eganwh said:


> I like the progress on the case thus far. I'm in favor of a thinner "less is more" approach. The placement of the crown will make or break the intrepretation IMHO. The upper portion of the bezel needs to just clear the crown. Looks like we have it nailed here. I think this was a huge miss in the PRS-14 version.
> 
> Have we settled on a lume choice yet? Still in favor of C3 to stick by the original.
> 
> Is the crystal profile in the drawing what is proposed?
> 
> Keep on keeping on. Thanks for the update.


Hi Wayne...thanks for the input.

We haven't settled on the lume yet.

The crystal in the drawing is what is proposed. If you have comments please let me know. I got a comment via e-mail from Dirk in Germany about the crystal.


----------



## Thieuster

Yao said:


> Hi Ron...no I am not that fancy. We are only using Illustrator software. I want to make the transition but can't find the time to learn the new software I have. The "top view" hasn't changed yet or should I say been updated since the last iteration. I haven't given it much thought but my gut reaction is that the top view wouldn't be changed by what I have done here with the side view. The lugs are a bit more svelte but I don't think that would show up in the top view. But we will get back to the top view after I tighten up the side view some more.
> 
> My short term goal is to get at least the design finalized before I talk to the case manufacturer in Basel. I don't think I will have the detailed technical drawings done by then but I hope to have the design finalized and ready for the stage where I draw out all of the specifications and dimensions.


Okay, I understand the difficulties of using this sort of software. On the other hand, I think that an angled view will help when it comes to visualizing the whole concept. I added a pic to show what I mean.

Menno


----------



## WS65

I really like the way this is going. No suggestions at this point other than to keep moving forward.


----------



## Yao

Thieuster said:


> Okay, I understand the difficulties of using this sort of software. On the other hand, I think that an angled view will help when it comes to visualizing the whole concept. I added a pic to show what I mean.
> 
> Menno


Yes I understand. That would be ideal, unfortunately it would take a very long time for me to generate that view. We'll see if I can come up with something else but I think its best to assume we will have to work from these kinds of 2D drawings.


----------



## Thieuster

Yao said:


> Yes I understand. That would be ideal, unfortunately it would take a very long time for me to generate that view. We'll see if I can come up with something else but I think its best to assume we will have to work from these kinds of 2D drawings.


No problems. I think your creations turne out quite right, form an aesthetically point of view :-!

Menno


----------



## Yao

Thieuster said:


> No problems. I think your creations turne out quite right, form an aesthetically point of view :-!
> 
> Menno


One day soon I will join the 21st century design community. For the time being digital pen and pencil is what will have to do ;-)


----------



## prometheus

I like this taller look of the bezel ring with more "depth" to the ridges.



Thieuster said:


> Okay, I understand the difficulties of using this sort of software. On the other hand, I think that an angled view will help when it comes to visualizing the whole concept. I added a pic to show what I mean.
> 
> Menno


----------



## Alan B

Bill,
Could you add the notches in the bezel on your side view. As I imagine the bezel from the side view it seems too delicate to me. As a tool watch I think I'd like a chunkier bezel. 
Thanks,
Alan


----------



## Yao

Alan B said:


> Bill,
> Could you add the notches in the bezel on your side view. As I imagine the bezel from the side view it seems too delicate to me. As a tool watch I think I'd like a chunkier bezel.
> Thanks,
> Alan


I will try to add that detail. It won't be 100% accurate but I will put the detail in this weekend.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Yao said:


> Interesting...I would have thought you guys might like the high bezel as it is a signature part of the design. *Good to know that the lower profile is preferred! I prefer the lower profile of the bezel as well.*


:think: I am with you all the way on this.

I really like the progression of ideas, and the result! 

Great Job Bill; keep up the Good Work! b-)

-Best- |>|>


----------



## eganwh

Yao said:


> The crystal in the drawing is what is proposed. If you have comments please let me know. I got a comment via e-mail from Dirk in Germany about the crystal.


I cannot really tell what the crystal will look like with the proposed drawing. Will the crystal smoothly curve on the outer edges similar to a Speedmaster sapphire or will the crystal generally curve from the center to an outside edge where it then abruptly transitions to a steeper, flat bevel slope? I certainly like the smooth look of the Speedmaster crystal which mimics the acrylic crystal profile. What was envisioned originally on your part?


----------



## Yao

eganwh said:


> I cannot really tell what the crystal will look like with the proposed drawing. Will the crystal smoothly curve on the outer edges similar to a Speedmaster sapphire or will the crystal generally curve from the center to an outside edge where it then abruptly transitions to a steeper, flat bevel slope? I certainly like the smooth look of the Speedmaster crystal which mimics the acrylic crystal profile. What was envisioned originally on your part?


At the moment it has a facet on the top edge. You will see this on pretty much all of our watches.

We can try and see what the manufacturer says to making the edge curved. I did this on the QUAD10 crystal. For the most part it looked really good. I can see what their reaction will be like. If we do do this we may have to make the crystal shorter (not sure just thinking out loud) because the sides are usually frosted. I don't think you can create a clean edge between the frosted section and the curved section so we would have to do our best to hide the frosted section under the bezel. So unless they can polish part of the side of the crystal and also frost the bottom half we may have to settle for a "shorter" crystal if we go this route.

With the faceted surface I would have just let the frosted side show above the bezel, like the Nassau and Kingston. As long as the edge is uniform it looks fine.

Let me know if this changes the calculation for you.

Alright...going to bed now


----------



## jussi

I really like the lower profile route you are going!

I have a SM 300 cousins build....and always felt that the bezel is way to high! and looks cheep in a plastic kind of way with the polished sides under the notches on the bezel.


----------



## eganwh

Yao said:


> At the moment it has a facet on the top edge. You will see this on pretty much all of our watches.
> 
> We can try and see what the manufacturer says to making the edge curved. I did this on the QUAD10 crystal. For the most part it looked really good. I can see what their reaction will be like. If we do do this we may have to make the crystal shorter (not sure just thinking out loud) because the sides are usually frosted. I don't think you can create a clean edge between the frosted section and the curved section so we would have to do our best to hide the frosted section under the bezel. So unless they can polish part of the side of the crystal and also frost the bottom half we may have to settle for a "shorter" crystal if we go this route.
> 
> With the faceted surface I would have just let the frosted side show above the bezel, like the Nassau and Kingston. As long as the edge is uniform it looks fine.
> 
> Let me know if this changes the calculation for you.
> 
> Alright...going to bed now


 You're right. Looking at the Kingston, the facet is barely visible and the crystal stands just slightly proud of the bezel insert. I can't speak for all, but I'd like the crystal to look as vintage as possible so maximizing the curve and the height would be key. That said, the approach utilizing the facet should work better to accomplish this.

No deal killer here for me. I'm all in.


----------



## Yao

eganwh said:


> You're right. Looking at the Kingston, the facet is barely visible and the crystal stands just slightly proud of the bezel insert. I can't speak for all, but I'd like the crystal to look as vintage as possible so maximizing the curve and the height would be key. That said, the approach utilizing the facet should work better to accomplish this.
> 
> No deal killer here for me. I'm all in.


Well there is still room for discussion on this. So opinions are certainly welcome.


----------



## artefact0

eganwh said:


> I can't speak for all, but I'd like the crystal to look as vintage as possible so maximizing the curve and the height would be key. That said, the approach utilizing the facet should work better to accomplish this.
> 
> .


+ 1|>


----------



## The hekler

I would like to see a taller crystal closer to the bottle cap style on the seamaster, to me it's one of the defining features.


----------



## jussi

eganwh said:


> You're right. Looking at the Kingston, the facet is barely visible and the crystal stands just slightly proud of the bezel insert. I can't speak for all, but I'd like the crystal to look as vintage as possible so maximizing the curve and the height would be key. That said, the approach utilizing the facet should work better to accomplish this.
> 
> No deal killer here for me. I'm all in.


+1


----------



## kywong

I like the lower profile case, but would probably prefer a height that is something in-between the taller and thinner version as the thinner version does seem to deviate from the original a little too much.

I also agree with Hekler that the tall crystal is a defining feature of the design and it wouldn't look right without it.


----------



## dwg

Unlike submariner, which has a clean timeless design, when you look at the seamaster from the side, you can tell, it was designed long time ago. It has a very specific profile and I agree, it maybe be good to stick to the original design here, as that's what sets this model apart from similar watches.

but it's hard to decide without some mock up. I've recently seen a Raven vintage 40mm sub homage, which is extremely similar to Kingston (just the proportions and detail are not there), but has extremely high crystal and I didn't like it - it was just too much.


----------



## Yao

The latest update from this past Sunday.

Changes made:

* I spent some time cleaning up the drawing making sure the side view starts to jive with the front view. 
* I put a higher dome on the crystal. Let me know if you think it should be higher. It rises to a higher peak than the v3.12 but I also brought the edges closer to the bezel so that it would look more like an acrylic crystal (i.e. the frosted section of the crystal will be less visible.)
* I add the teeth into the bezel. I know this isn't in the proper perspective but I think its detailed enough to offer a good likeness.
* I had to push the case back out a little bit more to try to create enough space between the crown and the case back to keep the watch comfortable. This result is that the watch will sit on its case back now when placed on a flat surface. The original sits on its lugs when laid on a flat surface. Now v3.13 is about as thick as the original but the heights of the components are distributed differently than the original. 
* The case back was made smaller in diameter. This may change again later because I am starting to work on the back of the watch. But connecting the 3 o'clock side with the 9 o'clock side in my mind is going to take a bit of trial and error. I still have to revise the 9 o'clock view for the changes made in the last 2 weeks.

Let me know what you think, especially about the dome on the crystal. A higher dome may change the price or it may not I am not sure at this point and the only way to find out is to have it quoted by the manufacturer. Just to let you know that this has to be one of the tallest crystals I have made. Its only shy of the record by 0.2 mm 

[See attachment]

If this is okay I will return to work on the top view and the 9 o'clock section next week.


----------



## MHe225

I like the dome of the crystal in this latest rendering and would definitely not go higher. I was fine with last week's and this one is even better. That plus the "pushing out" of the case-back adds to the thickness / height of the watch. How much is the total height of the current design? I have the feeling that it shouldn't grow more from it's current height.

Looking great, Bill and thank you for posting all these different versions and elaborating on the reasons for the change. Not many designers are comfortable doing that and to me it just adds to the specialness of this watch.

RonB


----------



## artefact0

That seems good. The end result should be as desired.(imo)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: Bill, Agreed with RonB's comments above...



> I like the dome of the crystal in this latest rendering and *would* definitely *not go higher*. I was fine with last week's and *this one is even better*. That plus the "pushing out" of the case-back adds to the thickness / height of the watch. How much is the total height of the current design?* I have the feeling that it shouldn't grow more from it's current height*.


-It just keeps looking better and better in my opinion.....|>|>

While Inspired by the original 60-70 year old design, I would think that this watch is the result of evolution and growth - with subtle improvements, beyond that inspiration. _(If I wanted a duplicate, I would seek out a Watchco or whatever.)_ I hope others see it that way as well.

Thanks-


----------



## Chromejob

eganwh said:


> You're right. Looking at the Kingston, the facet is barely visible and the crystal stands just slightly proud of the bezel insert....


Hopefully this helps.. Just for comparison.









A MKII Kingston.


----------



## rmasso

Yao said:


> I also brought the edges closer to the bezel so that it would look more like an acrylic crystal (i.e. the frosted section of the crystal will be less visible.)
> Just to let you know that this has to be one of the tallest crystals I have made. Its only shy of the record by 0.2 mm
> 
> View attachment 1022684


1. I wonder if that is the difference between the look of acrylic and mineral/sapphire, the frosted section you describe above. An acrylic crystal would not have that on the bend hence giving it a different look. Almost like vinyl to CD. 
1a. is there a way to have the crystal polished on the frosted part so that it looks closer to an acrylic one? I think that would be a really neat look. I think the Omega Moonwatch with Sapphire tried to get the crystal curve similar to the acrylic one and though not the same, they did an admirable job with it. I know that adds to the cost of this watch or any other, but I think it looks cool.
2. What was the highest crystal you've done? I mean on what model?
Rich


----------



## Yao

The next update will be posted this Sunday. I will try to fix the lost attachments then as well.


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## Yao

I have re-uploaded the missing images that were lost with the server problem. 

Below are the changes I have made today. We are beginning the refining of the design so the changes are getting less dramatic but no less important. Here is a list of the changes I made this week:

* I reconciled the side views with each other (9 and 3) and also the top view with the side views. 
* I made the mid-section of the case (the area around the crown) about 0.1 mm thicker and the top side a little flatter. To be honest I am not sure about this change yet. I have to stare at it a few days to see if I like it. I can make some adjustments to the bottom of the lugs to make the whole mid-section look thinner. I am just thinking if I haven't unbalanced the side view of the case with the latest changes. 

I am going to start tweaking the top view next week and continuing to adjust the side view. I think I want to make the dial a bit bigger and the ID of the bezel a bit bigger as well. I may or may not need to free up some space for the side-walls of the crystal to make sure the dial isn't distorted when you look straight down on the case. I am not sure yet. (Please note that the dial isn't final. I just dropped in what I had. The print above the size can be decided last. Its more important that the font and size of the markers is right - Sorry just noticed that this still has the Arial numerals on that that are supposed to be replaced)


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## Yao

It may be hard to see unless the pictures are scaled down to 1:1 but I am thinking about shaving either 0.5 mm off the length of the watch or making it wider (from 41.25 now to 42.00). The lugs look too long for my taste, although that is an accurate representation of the example I have here.


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## Thieuster

There's a Seamaster for sale in Holland. Here are two interesting pics (Eddy C.'s pics on Horlogeforum.nl):


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## jussi

Yao said:


> It may be hard to see unless the pictures are scaled down to 1:1 but I am thinking about shaving either 0.5 mm off the length of the watch or making it wider (from 41.25 now to 42.00). The lugs look too long for my taste, although that is an accurate representation of the example I have here.


Shaving of the lenght would probably the way to go... didn't we have a pol about the total lenght of this watch sometime in the past where the majority where "for" a shorther caselenght...??

also... would really like to se a lower bezelring on thisone... iow, the straight part leading up to the knurls of the bezel. just my 2cents..


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## HJR

I would agree with jussi, that I would shave some length over going wider. I think one of the defining attributes that make Omega's design classic is the shorter lug-to-lug dimensions that their watches carry. For example, (according to web sources) the submariner has a 40mm case with a 47.5 L2L, while the seamaster has a 41mm case and a 47.3 L2L. Just my opinion as a big fan of Omegas!


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## eganwh

jussi said:


> Shaving of the lenght would probably the way to go.


+1


----------



## eganwh

Yao said:


> We can try and see what the manufacturer says to making the edge curved. I did this on the QUAD10 crystal. For the most part it looked really good. I can see what their reaction will be like. If we do do this we may have to make the crystal shorter (not sure just thinking out loud) because the sides are usually frosted. I don't think you can create a clean edge between the frosted section and the curved section so we would have to do our best to hide the frosted section under the bezel. So unless they can polish part of the side of the crystal and also frost the bottom half we may have to settle for a "shorter" crystal if we go this route.


Is this the type of profile (blue area added) you were able to achieve with the Quad 10? Maybe this option is worth exploring as it is closer to the feel of the original. I see Helson has a bottlecap shaped sapphire on the latest generation of skin diver that looks really good. I wonder if using this style sapphire caused them to increase the watch diameter.


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## Yao

Sorry for the lack of an update. I was working on the 300 last Sunday. I have the latest mock-up hanging up in my office. I am just not sure about the lug profile that I have right now. I am trying to figure out if/how I should tweak it. 

However I did end up just shortening the L2L length and the watch looks much better now. I hope to have a latest and greatest up in a few days or by this Sunday at the latest.


----------



## Yao

Yao said:


> Sorry for the lack of an update. I was working on the 300 last Sunday. I have the latest mock-up hanging up in my office. I am just not sure about the lug profile that I have right now. I am trying to figure out if/how I should tweak it.
> 
> However I did end up just shortening the L2L length and the watch looks much better now. I hope to have a latest and greatest up in a few days or by this Sunday at the latest.


I finished the update for today but I will have to post it tomorrow.

I think I have the side view where I want it and it is ready for any final comment. All that is left is that the insert and the dial have to be worked on as well as tying up loose ends on the case itself. When I go to Basel I will have enough to make a meeting with the case supplier meaningful and for them to start on a quotation for the case and bracelet after the show.


----------



## Yao

Here is the latest update. I am pretty happy with the final result for the side view so please let me know your comments on the side views....otherwise when I get back from Basel if I still like the side view that is pretty much the way it will stay.

Changes made:

* I made the "toothed" section of the bezel taller. The overall bezel height is still the same I just allocated more of the height to the teeth so that we could close the gap between the crown and the teeth. This also better balanced the bezel against the mid-section of the case. Part of the problem I was having with the design was the that mid-section just seemed overpowering to the rest of the case. I spent a lot of time wondering if it wasn't just an illusion caused by the 2D drawing. 
* I shaved a slight bit of thickness off the mid-section and also shortened the "drop" of the lugs. I was trying to balance the mid-section of the case body better with the bezel and the case back.
* I also tweaked the case back profile

I know it may seem somewhat anti-climactic for 2 weeks' wait on an update but the subtle changes are important and sometimes they take time to reveal themselves. I am sure there will be additional small adjustments I will want to make when I return but fundamentally the side view is complete in my eyes.

If this looks good to you guys we will hit the bezel insert and dial design when I get back.


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## lycanthropejeff

I would like to make one suggestion. I missed the pre-order period by 4 hours... very frustrating... so I bought a PRS-14 instead. It's a good looking watch but the spring bar holes are set far too high in the lug. Due to the prominent case back on that particular watch it can cause some discomfort with certain strap styles; it also made it difficult to accurately measure my wrist and watch for a mesh style bracelet. This case back is far more tapered and svelt so it will likely not be an issue however, I would recommend a close look and bar-hole placement when the time comes. Maybe someone else familiar with a PRS-14 can help me explain better. 

You can be I'll be watching the sales forums like a hawk when these things hit the street!

Best,


----------



## Yao

lycanthropejeff said:


> I would like to make one suggestion. I missed the pre-order period by 4 hours... very frustrating... so I bought a PRS-14 instead. It's a good looking watch but the spring bar holes are set far too high in the lug. Due to the prominent case back on that particular watch it can cause some discomfort with certain strap styles; it also made it difficult to accurately measure my wrist and watch for a mesh style bracelet. This case back is far more tapered and svelt so it will likely not be an issue however, I would recommend a close look and bar-hole placement when the time comes. Maybe someone else familiar with a PRS-14 can help me explain better.
> 
> You can be I'll be watching the sales forums like a hawk when these things hit the street!
> 
> Best,


Thanks Jeff for the information. What kind of straps did you have trouble with?

I am actually trying to make the back thinner but I think this is as thin as I dare go so any information you or someone else could provide might be helpful.


----------



## jussi

Yao said:


> Here is the latest update. I am pretty happy with the final result for the side view so please let me know your comments on the side views....otherwise when I get back from Basel if I still like the side view that is pretty much the way it will stay.
> 
> Changes made:
> 
> * I made the "toothed" section of the bezel taller. The overall bezel height is still the same I just allocated more of the height to the teeth so that we could close the gap between the crown and the teeth. This also better balanced the bezel against the mid-section of the case. Part of the problem I was having with the design was the that mid-section just seemed overpowering to the rest of the case. I spent a lot of time wondering if it wasn't just an illusion caused by the 2D drawing.
> * I shaved a slight bit of thickness off the mid-section and also shortened the "drop" of the lugs. I was trying to balance the mid-section of the case body better with the bezel and the case back.
> * I also tweaked the case back profile
> 
> I know it may seem somewhat anti-climactic for 2 weeks' wait on an update but the subtle changes are important and sometimes they take time to reveal themselves. I am sure there will be additional small adjustments I will want to make when I return but fundamentally the side view is complete in my eyes.
> 
> If this looks good to you guys we will hit the bezel insert and dial design when I get back.
> 
> View attachment 1058130


Great work on the bezel! really like the whole sideview of it! looks very refined & well balanced,but still rugged enough.
an extra plus on making the bezel not look so...chimneys styled like the original sm300.


----------



## Neily_San

Yao said:


> Here is the latest update. I know it may seem somewhat anti-climactic for 2 weeks' wait
> View attachment 1058130


Certainly no disappointment here Sir. It looks fantastic :-D

Neily


----------



## Yao

eganwh said:


> Is this the type of profile (blue area added) you were able to achieve with the Quad 10? Maybe this option is worth exploring as it is closer to the feel of the original. I see Helson has a bottlecap shaped sapphire on the latest generation of skin diver that looks really good. I wonder if using this style sapphire caused them to increase the watch diameter.
> 
> View attachment 1047926


I wasn't ignoring your comment when I posted the latest update. I played with this a little bit on Sunday but I didn't really like the height of the dome that resulted when I flattened out the radius on the crystal.

Actually we did discuss this a few weeks ago. Adding the curve to the edge of the crystal I will see if it is possible. It certainly is technically possible (e.g. QUAD10) but different suppliers have different capabilities and comfort zones for these details. We are using the facet so that we can have a neat and clean transition to the frosted side of the crystal. Also the curve to the crystal, if not adjusted for properly with the dial can lead to an extreme amount of distortion when viewing the dial, which I think the Helson model exhibits. In the QUAD10 we did adjust for the distortion caused by the curve. In the Project 300 the addition of the curve may or may not force an adjustment of the proportions, which I would avoid, but I will ask the supplier how they feel about it. Given that though everyone should be comfortable with the facet instead or speak up now because that is the default option at this time.


----------



## Yao

lycanthropejeff said:


> I would like to make one suggestion. I missed the pre-order period by 4 hours... very frustrating... so I bought a PRS-14 instead. It's a good looking watch but the spring bar holes are set far too high in the lug. Due to the prominent case back on that particular watch it can cause some discomfort with certain strap styles; it also made it difficult to accurately measure my wrist and watch for a mesh style bracelet. This case back is far more tapered and svelt so it will likely not be an issue however, I would recommend a close look and bar-hole placement when the time comes. Maybe someone else familiar with a PRS-14 can help me explain better.
> 
> You can be I'll be watching the sales forums like a hawk when these things hit the street!
> 
> Best,


Just so you know we didn't sell all of the watches yet. We only sold the first third. If you want to be notified when we re-open ordering please sign yourself up here.


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## enkidu

Looks great! I still have a strong desire for drilled lugs, but that's just me being obstinate. I really like the profile of the bezel teeth. The dome of the crystal looks pretty perfect to me.

Is the bezel font set? I like all the numbers except the "1" which I think would look better with a slab serif top. Great progress!


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## Yao

enkidu said:


> Looks great! I still have a strong desire for drilled lugs, but that's just me being obstinate. I really like the profile of the bezel teeth. The dome of the crystal looks pretty perfect to me.
> 
> Is the bezel font set? I like all the numbers except the "1" which I think would look better with a slab serif top. Great progress!


Nothing about the dial or the bezel insert right now is set. We will begin addressing that when I return from Basel.


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## lycanthropejeff

Greetings Bill and Colleagues,

I would say that the placement of the lug holes can mitigate the thickness of the back. The most frustrating trouble I had was when I ordered a shark mesh band. I prefer my watches to sit on my wrist with little movement. I ordered the size that was recommended after diligently measuring both my wrist and the watch per the vendor's instructions. The band arrived and was too small at maximum adjustment. I failed to consider how much the case-back protruded below the plane of the lug holes and as a consequence the mesh is usable but not as comfortable as I was anticipating. Additionally, I think if the holes were closer to the bottom of the lugs it would allow more room for leather or thicker nylon nato/G10 style bands to slide on and off. The last reason is one of aesthetics. I think it just makes the strap look awkwardly placed on the '14, as if the holes were simply drilled arbitrarily with no consideration as to the function of the lug itself. This is really most apparent when using a mesh strap because you can see the spring-bar. In all fairness, the lug placement may have been chosen for some specific reason and the real problem is the thickness of the watch due to the anti-magnetic plate. Finally I would say that I think the lugs on this particular watch are one of the most appealing design aspects; I would imagine, by consequence, they are also the most frustrating to get correct. I think what you have so far looks perfect. Almost reminiscent of the lugs that were soldered on to pocket-watch to allow them to worn on the wrist in the trenches of the Great War. I think if you can get the holes as close to being on the same plane as the case back you will be well served. In reality we're talking about fractions of a millimeter, but somehow it really seems to make a difference. 

Wow. Talk about first world problems.... But there you have it.


----------



## Yao

lycanthropejeff said:


> Greetings Bill and Colleagues,
> 
> I would say that the placement of the lug holes can mitigate the thickness of the back. The most frustrating trouble I had was when I ordered a shark mesh band. I prefer my watches to sit on my wrist with little movement. I ordered the size that was recommended after diligently measuring both my wrist and the watch per the vendor's instructions. The band arrived and was too small at maximum adjustment. I failed to consider how much the case-back protruded below the plane of the lug holes and as a consequence the mesh is usable but not as comfortable as I was anticipating. Additionally, I think if the holes were closer to the bottom of the lugs it would allow more room for leather or thicker nylon nato/G10 style bands to slide on and off. The last reason is one of aesthetics. I think it just makes the strap look awkwardly placed on the '14, as if the holes were simply drilled arbitrarily with no consideration as to the function of the lug itself. This is really most apparent when using a mesh strap because you can see the spring-bar. In all fairness, the lug placement may have been chosen for some specific reason and the real problem is the thickness of the watch due to the anti-magnetic plate. Finally I would say that I think the lugs on this particular watch are one of the most appealing design aspects; I would imagine, by consequence, they are also the most frustrating to get correct. I think what you have so far looks perfect. Almost reminiscent of the lugs that were soldered on to pocket-watch to allow them to worn on the wrist in the trenches of the Great War. I think if you can get the holes as close to being on the same plane as the case back you will be well served. In reality we're talking about fractions of a millimeter, but somehow it really seems to make a difference.


Ok. Since we will be designing this watch for a bracelet with solid-end pieces I will have limited control of the issue but I promise to pay attention to this. I will go and check now how we are looking for NATO straps. I got very wrapped up in the design I haven't starting checking it for these issues, as I normally do.



lycanthropejeff said:


> Wow. Talk about first world problems.... But there you have it.


LOL...very true! Fortunately we have the luxury of spending our "off-time" like this.


----------



## siess

enkidu said:


> Looks great! I still have a strong desire for drilled lugs, but that's just me being obstinate. I really like the profile of the bezel teeth. The dome of the crystal looks pretty perfect to me.
> 
> Is the bezel font set? I like all the numbers except the "1" which I think would look better with a slab serif top. Great progress!


+1 on all of the points


----------



## lipjin

HJR said:


> I would agree with jussi, that I would shave some length over going wider. I think one of the defining attributes that make Omega's design classic is the shorter lug-to-lug dimensions that their watches carry. For example, (according to web sources) the submariner has a 40mm case with a 47.5 L2L, while the seamaster has a 41mm case and a 47.3 L2L. Just my opinion as a big fan of Omegas!


I agree with shaving some length. Also, the latest iteration looks amazing, can't wait to see how this watch turns out!


----------



## eganwh

Yao said:


> Changes made:
> 
> * I made the "toothed" section of the bezel taller. The overall bezel height is still the same I just allocated more of the height to the teeth so that we could close the gap between the crown and the teeth. This also better balanced the bezel against the mid-section of the case.


I like this subtle change.


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## skype88

Here is my vision of the project 300 Vintage Limited edition. This is a lume shot, notice the 3 4 5 bezel?


----------



## curt941




----------



## Auswatch

The dial, bezel and insert are looking great. But there is one thing I would give people the option for - a flat crystal. I (and I'm sure many others) have never liked domed crystal watches.


----------



## Yao

Auswatch said:


> The dial, bezel and insert are looking great. But there is one thing I would give people the option for - a flat crystal. I (and I'm sure many others) have never liked domed crystal watches.
> View attachment 1103689


Unfortunately the crystal shapes are mutually exclusive. To do the domed sapphire right you won't have enough space for a flat crystal.


----------



## Yao

Finally the update is ready. I can't tell you how relieved I am to be actually posting something. I spent a pretty frustrating day so far playing with fonts and proportions. Mostly it came down to the flattop 3 in the number 30 on the bezel. I had to do more "customization to a standard font than I normally do. There is still more work do on that number to pretty it up. Still looks more like the bride of Frankenstein right now.

Here are the changes:

* Side profile is the same, no changes
* The bezel font has been updated: Let me know what you think of the style of the font and then let me know details like the stroke thickness if you have an opinion. The stroke thickness of the numbers varied widely (no pun intended) amongst the original watches so I think we can do whatever you guys would prefer, within reason. 
* Dial font has been updated: I was going to use the Pluto font but opted to modify a Copperplate Gothic font instead. The bezel font is based on the same font as the dial so there will be some consistency. However I had to tweak the dial numbers differently from the bezel to re-create the same feel. 
* Bezel insert inner-diameter and outter-diameter have been increased. The last version felt as if the bezel insert was too dominant so I increased its diameter and made the width of the insert narrower. 
* Dial has been increased in size slightly to keep it in proportion with the bezel insert.
* Bezel diameter has stayed the same
* Case length is the same

You will probably note that there is a lot of gray area between the dial and the bezel insert. Most of this space is where the crystal will sit so you won't be able to see the span between the dial and the bezel insert. I am planning making the edge of the case opening reminiscent of the tension rings that were used to keep the original acrylic crystals in place. Since we are using sapphire we won't need a tension ring.

Well let me know what you think. We are close to getting the broad strokes done. After we get the dial and bezel insert nailed down its to the nitty gritty of spec'ing everything out and getting the technical drawings started.

Btw I did meet with the case supplier while I was Basel and they have the preliminary drawing and are working on the quotation for the case.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

I don't know if this helps or not, but....:think:

 I was always told that it is easier to ask for forgiveness, rather than permission. 

That being said, I took the liberty of making a side by side comparison;








Here it is...


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: Some quick thoughts:

Overall, I like your approach to the dial fonts better in 3.22. :-!

Layout; proportions look good on the changes to bezel-dial relationship. :-!

Now; here is where I am going to wonder out loud ...How did we get to a 'flat-topped-3' on the bezel? I know that I had made a suggestion that included the same thing previously, but now I question it...? :roll:

Would we be better off (and make it easier to accomplish too) if we just went with the same font (and used a 'round-top-3') for the bezel as the dial?

:think:

If the bezel is going to be a lumed sapphire insert, will that affect the thickness or the kind or type of detail that can be incorporated into the bezel-insert-font, and still be luminescent?

I still think that the dial could be cleaned up by leaving off "Automatic."

and....

(I would like to see Project 300 in script on the dial, but of course it wouldn't kill the deal for me either way.)

*Thanks* for this, Bill. I appreciate your efforts.


----------



## MHe225

Looks like I'm in the same boat as OCM ...... I'm not loving the flat-top 3 and think a round-top would look (much) better and more balanced. It's almost as if this one number is taken from a different character-set / type.

Also, I would like to see the numbers a wee bit thicker / heavier / bolder (I guess that's what Bill means with _stroke thickness_?) Somehow that seems more authentic and balances the watch out better.

I would also change the number 1 in 10 and replace it with a one that has the little hook to the left (when in elementary, we called it a little flag). So *1* instead of *|*

I don't think the dial needs "cleaning-up" and Automatic can stay. If it's voted off, then that's fine with me too. And another vote to replace the depth rating on the dial by _Project 300_ in script.

The changes in dimensions are very subtle (thanks OCM for the side-by-side) and version 3.22 has a more appealing look and feel to it, so that one receives my vote.

Thanks, Bill, it's coming along very nicely.
RonB


----------



## siess

I think that I like the new dial font but I am not sure about the 3 in the bezel. Is there any historical significance to the flat 3?

I am fine with the automatic and depth rating on the dial.


----------



## enkidu

I like the flat 3. All the non-zero numbers on the zero have at least one flat surface and I think the flat-top 3 balances well with the 2, 4, and 5. I would like to see a top serif on the 1, I think the serif-less stick "1" looks a little light. The case looks great. Is it correct to assume that the standard reeding will be used? Looks great overall. Thanks!


----------



## WS65

I really like the new proportions of Ver. 3.22. As others have said, I do not care for the flat-top 3. In the side by side the rounded 3 looks better to me. I think the dial is fine, but I would also be ok with adding "Project 300".


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

MHe225 said:


> ...... I'm not loving the flat-top 3 and think a round-top would look (much) better and balanced. It's almost as if this one number is taken from a different character-set / type.
> 
> Also, I would like to see the numbers a wee bit thicker / heavier / bolder (I guess that's what Bill means with _stroke thickness_?) Somehow that seems more authentic and balances the watch out better.
> 
> I would also change the number 1 in 10 and replace it with a one that has the little hook to the left (when in elementary, we called it a little flag). So *1* instead of *|*.
> 
> Thanks, Bill, it's coming along very nicely.
> RonB


I agree with these statements - Well Said, RonB. Thanks!

:think: The changes are really subtle, but Ver 3.22 looks noticeably better.

The '*Automatic*' can stay or go; either way is fine with me and the dial layout looks good. The same with the depth rating or '*Project 300*' , although I would hope that if the name doesn't make it onto the front of the watch it will be incorporated into the case back design. By the same reasoning, if the depth rating appears on the front, it does not have to be repeated on the case-back.

-Best to All-


----------



## Semuta

I think the flat top 3 was found on the military SM300's, but I could be wrong. I think the new mock up looks great (though I am still a firm believer open 9s and 6s).


----------



## Semuta

Never mind, I am wrong. But the flat top 3 is historically accurate too.


----------



## eganwh

I agree with many of the comments around the proportions of the case/dial/bezel - looks very well balanced. 

The gap between the top of the crown and the bezel top edge is in keeping with the original - well done.

I am good with the flat top three in the bezel numbers and agree with another comment about going with a flat top 1 (consistent with the early bezel versions on the gen II SM300) on the bezel as well.

Did we decide not to add the name to the dial? I could go either way on this.


----------



## gwold

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> I don't know if this helps or not, but....:think:
> 
> I was always told that it is easier to ask for forgiveness, rather than permission.
> 
> That being said, I took the liberty of making a side by side comparison;
> 
> View attachment 1108054
> 
> Here it is...


This side-by-side does help visualize the differences, so thanks! The revised design, 3.22, does look better balanced, more open, and more appealing. (I have to wonder a little, though, if part of the added appeal is from the brighter grey relative to v3.20.)

I agree with those who feel the round-topped 3 is the better-looking design. With the closed end of the flat top (the end connecting to the rest of the number) being "inside" there's an impression that the 3 is running away from the outer edge of the bezel, due to the curvature. The 5 displays the same effect, but it's a good effect for the 5 since there we're looking at the open end.

Greg


----------



## gman54

Overall, I like 3.2.2; however, I recommend removing "Automatic" and the depth rating from the dial. I prefer to see P300 on the dial. I do like the flat top font on the bezel.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: *About the 'Flat-topped 3' ....
*
It has been bouncing around in my little brain. :-s I know I have seen many photos and illustrations, auctions on eBay , sales on MWR and here.

I have seen it both ways, but I seemed to recall seeing it in prominence somewhere recently, AND _(with apologies to Bill...)_

*The header for the Project 300, including a photo of Bill's inspiration.
*








:roll: Yup. This where I saw it. :roll:

So, I am fine with it if it can be fixed. Somehow the 'original flat-topped three' (as shown above) looks better...not so wide across the top or something.

This kind of stuff must drive Bill crazy.....

-My Best to all-


----------



## Alan B

I like the flat top 3. I think the use of two different 3s on the dial and bezel is quirky and a nice detail. I'd rather remember this discussion and everyone's thoughts by seeing the two 3s, not by remembering how we/Bill decided to lose the flat top.
Great discussion and the watch is looking great.
Alan


----------



## Yao

siess said:


> I think that I like the new dial font but I am not sure about the 3 in the bezel. Is there any historical significance to the flat 3?
> 
> I am fine with the automatic and depth rating on the dial.


The "3"s on the bezel come in both styles, flat top and rounded. Here is a pic of the flat top but we don't have to use it if you guys prefer the round:


----------



## Yao

enkidu said:


> I like the flat 3. All the non-zero numbers on the zero have at least one flat surface and I think the flat-top 3 balances well with the 2, 4, and 5. I would like to see a top serif on the 1, I think the serif-less stick "1" looks a little light. The case looks great. Is it correct to assume that the standard reeding will be used? Looks great overall. Thanks!


You mean the reeding on the bezel? For the bezel the teeth are slightly beefier than the original.


----------



## Yao

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: *About the 'Flat-topped 3' ....
> *
> It has been bouncing around in my little brain. :-s I know I have seen many photos and illustrations, auctions on eBay , sales on MWR and here.
> 
> I have seen it both ways, but I seemed to recall seeing it in prominence somewhere recently, AND _(with apologies to Bill...)_
> 
> *The header for the Project 300, including a photo of Bill's inspiration.
> *
> View attachment 1112436
> 
> 
> :roll: Yup. This where I saw it. :roll:
> 
> So, I am fine with it if it can be fixed. Somehow the 'original flat-topped three' (as shown above) looks better...not so wide across the top or something.
> 
> This kind of stuff must drive Bill crazy.....
> 
> -My Best to all-


That used to be my own military SM300. 

Hmmmmm....this is quite a problem. Flat topped 3 or curved topped 3? Personally I did the flat topped 3 because it was more quirky and unusual. But the observation about the "3" running away from the bezel is an accurate one. As you can see in the example OCM re-posted here it looks like its leaning away from the "0" but I think in this particular case its a printing error. Since someone remarked on that even though I thought I fixed it is a bit troubling.

I will revise with a thicker stroke to the font on the bezel and try out a curved topped "3" and see what you guys think. The depth rating I think we should keep on the dial. Although I am generally against appealing to the lowest-common denominator only for the sake of appealing to the LCD I think in this case it would probably best to stick with something more conventional, especially since so far its been impossible to find a good font for the Project 300 name. This is different from say just giving you guys what you asked for. Generally speaking I think the "Project 300" name will turn off a lot of potential customers outside of the Plankowners since many won't have participated in the design phase and won't get the attraction of the name, while I think the depth rating will be at worst a neutral for anyone. We can use the Project 300 name on the case back.

For the word "AUTOMATIC" I can also go either way. I am okay with taking it off if that is what most people prefer.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Yao said:


> That used to be my own military SM300.
> 
> ......The depth rating I think we should keep on the dial. Although I am generally against appealing to the lowest-common denominator only for the sake of appealing to the LCD I think in this case it would probably best to stick with something more conventional, especially since so far its been impossible to find a good font for the Project 300 name. This is different from say just giving you guys what you asked for. Generally speaking I think the "Project 300" name will turn off a lot of potential customers outside of the Plankowners since many won't have participated in the design phase and won't get the attraction of the name, while I think the depth rating will be at worst a neutral for anyone. We can use the Project 300 name on the case back. ....


 Thank You Bill. I can understand your insight into this much more clearly now. I very much appreciate that you took the time to respond.

It's all good, and it all makes good sense, too. Thanks again....

-Best-


----------



## jussi

About the "automatic" I for one think it should stay for balance...

-why? because I think that without it, the big triangle with only the mIIk text will look like a big exclamation mark from a distance.
...just my thougts


----------



## dwg

I also prefer 3.2.2. 

The 'technical' flat top font seems to suit the tool watch well. Another thing is the distance between 1-0, 2-0, 3-0 etc. numerals. On the original watch is seems just slightly bigger, than you would expect, which adds to the 'techno' look.

edit: it's probably fractions of millimeter anyway.


----------



## gman54

Your comment regarding the watch name "Project 300" being on the makes sense; however, it is in fact the name of the watch... right? The Kingston name is proudly displayed on the dial. I prefer the name on the dial. That said, I'm in for this project from start to finish regardless of the name.


Yao said:


> That used to be my own military SM300.
> 
> Hmmmmm....this is quite a problem. Flat topped 3 or curved topped 3? Personally I did the flat topped 3 because it was more quirky and unusual. But the observation about the "3" running away from the bezel is an accurate one. As you can see in the example OCM re-posted here it looks like its leaning away from the "0" but I think in this particular case its a printing error. Since someone remarked on that even though I thought I fixed it is a bit troubling.
> 
> I will revise with a thicker stroke to the font on the bezel and try out a curved topped "3" and see what you guys think. The depth rating I think we should keep on the dial. Although I am generally against appealing to the lowest-common denominator only for the sake of appealing to the LCD I think in this case it would probably best to stick with something more conventional, especially since so far its been impossible to find a good font for the Project 300 name. This is different from say just giving you guys what you asked for. Generally speaking I think the "Project 300" name will turn off a lot of potential customers outside of the Plankowners since many won't have participated in the design phase and won't get the attraction of the name, while I think the depth rating will be at worst a neutral for anyone. We can use the Project 300 name on the case back.
> 
> For the word "AUTOMATIC" I can also go either way. I am okay with taking it off if that is what most people prefer.


----------



## enkidu

I'd be happy with either a flat-top or round-top '3'. But I would like the '1' to have a top serif. I have a slight preference for having just the MKII logo without the "AUTOMATIC" but the difference is minor for me. I really like the "300 m — 1000 ft" text. Looks even better after a week for me.


----------



## Yao

dwg said:


> I also prefer 3.2.2.
> 
> The 'technical' flat top font seems to suit the tool watch well. Another thing is the distance between 1-0, 2-0, 3-0 etc. numerals. On the original watch is seems just slightly bigger, than you would expect, which adds to the 'techno' look.
> 
> edit: it's probably fractions of millimeter anyway.


Fractions of a millimeter matter


----------



## Yao

gman54 said:


> Your comment regarding the watch name "Project 300" being on the makes sense; however, it is in fact the name of the watch... right? The Kingston name is proudly displayed on the dial. I prefer the name on the dial. That said, I'm in for this project from start to finish regardless of the name.


Yeah you are correct. The problem is I can't make it look good. The font is everything for this and it just doesn't look right with everything I have tried.


----------



## Yao

enkidu said:


> I'd be happy with either a flat-top or round-top '3'. But I would like the '1' to have a top serif. I have a slight preference for having just the MKII logo without the "AUTOMATIC" but the difference is minor for me. I really like the "300 m - 1000 ft" text. Looks even better after a week for me.


Okay. I will try the serif'd 1. I think it will look good either way but in a different way of course.


----------



## enkidu

Yao said:


> Okay. I will try the serif'd 1. I think it will look good either way but in a different way of course.


Thanks Bill, I think the serif'd 1 will balance the bezel nicely.


----------



## Alan B

Any progress on the round top 3 and the top serif on the 1? Any other updates. I'm getting really hungry to wear this watch!
Alan


----------



## Yao

Alan B said:


> Any progress on the round top 3 and the top serif on the 1? Any other updates. I'm getting really hungry to wear this watch!
> Alan


Here is the the version with a round top "3". Sorry for the delay. I got caught up trouble shooting a supplier problem over the last week or so.

I added a serif to the "1" in the 10 and the 30 has been changed to the round top version. I also thinned the "stroke" of the numbers on the bezel slightly.









I will be in Taipei for the next two days.


----------



## gman54

Looks great. Even without the name on the dial . Looking forward to strapping it on!


----------



## kywong

Looks fantastic! I like both the round and flat 3, and would be happy with either. As for the 1, I do prefer the serif 1, but would like to see a slightly longer hook than in v3.23.


----------



## enkidu

kywong said:


> Looks fantastic! I like both the round and flat 3, and would be happy with either. As for the 1, I do prefer the serif 1, but would like to see a slightly longer hook than in v3.23.


Almost word for word what kywong said!


----------



## WS65

I agree, the serif in the 1 is too small.


----------



## Alan B

I'd like to see the 1 with a larger serif, to compare it with the no serif 1. Right now I'm leaning toward no serif. The bezel looks great. I think the thinner stroke looks better. Once again fractions of a mm make a difference. 

Alan


----------



## Yao

I getting back into this now......the best I can do tonight is to get my head back into what I was thinking 8-10 weeks ago.


----------



## MHe225

Yao said:


> I getting back into this now......the best I can do tonight is to get my head back into what I was thinking 8-10 weeks ago.


|> YES!!!! |>

Sign off, sell the PC and good luck :-d
More seriously: excellent news. I know that feeling of trying to remember what you were thinking .... I too work too many projects in my day-job and some will go untouched for many weeks in a row. When I get back to them, it takes me hours to get back in to the "groove", my thinking, reasoning, etc. 
In that way, I (you) spend more time than I (you) should and it is an ineffective -and sometimes frustrating- way of getting our work done. Chalk it up to "life in the big city"

Hope you'll have a few days of uninterrupted time to dedicate to your projects and we are all eager to see what you come up with.

RonB


----------



## Yao

Just to let those of you that know your fonts I am going to try a modified Helvetica for the bezel. I think, hope, that the font won't look too modern. But this has a better round-top 3 than I have currently in the design.


----------



## Yao

I will be posting an updated design tomorrow.


----------



## Rasphelt

Yao said:


> Here is the the version with a round top "3". Sorry for the delay. I got caught up trouble shooting a supplier problem over the last week or so.
> 
> I added a serif to the "1" in the 10 and the 30 has been changed to the round top version. I also thinned the "stroke" of the numbers on the bezel slightly.
> 
> View attachment 1159574
> 
> 
> I will be in Taipei for the next two days.


I love this design, the numbering looks fantastic....


----------



## Yao

Here is the latest. Biggest difference is that:

* I started with a standard Helvetica font and then customized it. This was because the round top 3 just looked awkward in my last iteration. 
* 3.27 features no serif on the "1" and 3.27a uses a serif on the "1"

If you ask me the serif'd "1" adds a stronger and more aggressive feel to the design. The sans-serif "1" has a softer and more vintage feel to it.

Other than the "1" issue this is the time to bring up any other issues about the design. After I get a feel for whether 3.27 or 3.27a is the way to go I will basically close off the design process to any major changes so that I can begin work on fine tuning the design as well as work on the technical drawings for the case supplier.


----------



## enkidu

Looks great. 3.27a with the serif 1 for me.


----------



## artefact0

> The sans-serif "1" has a softer and more vintage feel to it.


I vote for this one.


----------



## gman54

My vote: 3.27a


----------



## lycanthropejeff

The sans-serif '1' seems to blend in with the minute indices to me. My vote is the 3.27a.


----------



## gwold

The serif 1 feels more appropriate to the watch. The dial's pretty busy IMO and the serif helps the 1 fit in.

About that 4 on the bezel, though: I don't recall the short flat top from earlier designs; 3.22 has a pointed top. This 4 is pretty jarring, like the Cyrillic alphabet somehow infiltrated the watch face. If the pointed, closed top isn't working for you, how about a slightly open top, with somewhat less of an angle to the upright?


----------



## Thieuster

3.27*a *for me. The serif sets the '1' apart from the 5 sec marker which is one simple line.
I rather like the flat top 4.

Menno


----------



## HJR

3.27A. The serif really fits best with the overall design!


----------



## Steve260

Another vote for 3.27a here. The serif just "feels right" to me!


----------



## Darwin

3.27a looks better to me as well. Like the flat top "4" in 40 as well.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Aye! 3.27a gets my vote and approval as well....Thanks much to Bill. Please Carry On....


----------



## siess

3.27a gets my vote


----------



## MHe225

One more 3.27a vote |>

1-serif just looks righter (if that's a word).

RonB


----------



## WS65

Add another vote for 3.27a. I really like the over all look.


----------



## artefact0

Gentlemen, I bow down to your expert eyes.;-)


----------



## jussi

Yes to the 3.27a!


----------



## JSim

+1 for 3.27a

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## Alan B

3.27a for sure. Without the serif the 1 gets lost in the hash marks. Amazing what a difference a tiny white line makes.
Alan


----------



## Yao

I skimmed the "votes" here and will go back and read them in more detail over the next few days.


----------



## Reintitan

Yao said:


> Here is the latest. Biggest difference is that:
> 
> * I started with a standard Helvetica font and then customized it. This was because the round top 3 just looked awkward in my last iteration.
> * 3.27 features no serif on the "1" and 3.27a uses a serif on the "1"
> 
> If you ask me the serif'd "1" adds a stronger and more aggressive feel to the design. The sans-serif "1" has a softer and more vintage feel to it.
> 
> Other than the "1" issue this is the time to bring up any other issues about the design. After I get a feel for whether 3.27 or 3.27a is the way to go I will basically close off the design process to any major changes so that I can begin work on fine tuning the design as well as work on the technical drawings for the case supplier.
> 
> View attachment 1282611


Bill, I prefer v3.27a.


----------



## kmangino47

V3.27a

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eganwh

One more for 3.27a.


----------



## mario24601

v3.27a also!


----------



## Jfha1210

V3.27a...
Merry Christmas and a Happy new watch!


----------



## es335

What is the street date for the Project 300? What month will it be released in 2014?


----------



## omega600

I'd like to know that also....

I think it's been what, 3 years, since we gave our down payment ?? 

Hey Bill! What's the release date? 

Best regards,
Frank


----------



## DEV.Woulf

Yao said:


> The sans-serif "1" has a softer and more vintage feel to it.


Searching pictures of the original, I am finding much more with the serif and less without it. Whatever was on the original should be aimed for. Which was the original more like, 3.27 or 3.27a?

This watch will be every bit as cool as the Nassau. Can't wait for real pictures.


----------



## mario24601

When can we expect an update? I'm anxious to know


----------



## garyscott

omega600 said:


> I'd like to know that also....
> 
> I think it's been what, 3 years, since we gave our down payment ??
> 
> Hey Bill! What's the release date?
> 
> Best regards,
> Frank


X2....Time to make the watch, dragging this out way too long.


----------



## garyscott

This watch was supposed to resemble a vintage Seamaster 300, so Bill is not reinventing the wheel. Time for Bill to make final decisions and have the watch manufactured!


----------



## artefact0

garyscott said:


> This watch was supposed to resemble a vintage Seamaster 300, so Bill is not reinventing the wheel. *Time for Bill to make final decisions and have the watch manufactured*!


I agree with all those who think that.
I'd purchased two watches and one was for a friend of mine who became hemiplegic and now he doesn't care of fine watches !
I told that to Bill who refund me (thank you Sir), but I would not like the same thing happens to me.:-d


----------



## lipjin

Heh I haven't checked this thread in 3 months? Seems nothing has moved along.


----------



## mario24601

Guess the new 300 will be out before


----------



## pinchoff

Is Omega getting ahead? Hope not! I prefer Bills concept! Indeed, but it is time to progress. Can we help at all?

http://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/watchmaking/baselworld-2014#!/seamaster-300-master-coaxial










Enviado desde mi cacharro con Chapachak


----------



## mtbmike

:-!:-!:-!


----------



## sunster

Not fond of the shiny polished centre links but otherwise the new Omega 300m is truly stunning


----------



## enkidu

I love the dial and bezel. I think the case goes very well with the spartan look. I do miss the elegant lyre lugs, though. Anybody know if it can be destro-ized?


----------



## cpotters

I'm sure Bill might share some updates on the Project 300 after Basel when he shows up this weekend for the MkII GTG in NYC. While I'm not in on this project, I've followed it from the beginning, and if there is any news on this I'll make sure to get it up here on this thread....


----------



## Alan B

Hello Bill,
I'd love an update. Are there questions we should be chiming in on? Any news on moving forward? Are you at the stage of lining up manufacturers, and if so how is it going?
Take care,
Alan


----------



## kmangino47

Any news?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## diggitygiggitydan

hope you folks see some progress.. Your pain is very understandable..


----------



## artefact0

diggitygiggitydan said:


> hope you folks see some progress.. Your pain is very understandable..


Maybe we can hope to get it in 2015? Only 4 years after ordering!! 
For me it's the 1st but the last time that I do such a purchase. Too much is too much.


----------



## Darwin

I doubt you'd have any problem selling your preorder spot (assuming Bill allows such a thing). I'd jump on the chance, for one...



artefact0 said:


> Maybe we can hope to get it in 2015? Only 4 years after ordering!!
> For me it's the 1st but the last time that I do such a purchase. Too much is too much.


----------



## artefact0

In fact, I've already canceled one watch from my order. It was for a friend of mine who had a cerebrovascular accident and at this rate, we'll all be dead before having our watch!:-d


----------



## mlb212

Darwin said:


> I doubt you'd have any problem selling your preorder spot (assuming Bill allows such a thing). I'd jump on the chance, for one...


I am next in line after Darwin.


----------



## Jfha1210

If Darwin and mlb212 fail, I'm also ready... 

JH iPhone


----------



## Knoc

1st draft diagrams:

2014-06-27: Project 300 1st Draft


----------



## Thieuster

Knoc said:


> 1st draft diagrams:
> 
> 2014-06-27: Project 300 1st Draft


Thanks! |>|>|>

M


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

(What He Said....) ;-)

Yes!

|>|>


----------



## WS65

Nearly 3.5 years since my order was placed and all we have seen is a 1st draft. I don't want to complain, but this is getting ridiculous.


----------



## artefact0

WS65 said:


> Nearly 3.5 years since my order was placed and all we have seen is a 1st draft. I don't want to complain, but this is getting *ridiculous*.


Sure! The word is weak!


----------



## mrklabb

The good news is omega is releasing their reboot soon, so you have that going for ya


----------



## mario24601

True but for me I wish the reboot looked closer to the vintage. Either way I can't wait to see Bill's!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Hey All,

Bill has posted a brief news update on the MKII page -->

2014-11-18: Project 300 Drawings

_Another significant step forward....._

:-!


----------



## artefact0

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Bill has posted a brief news update on the MKII page -->
> 
> 2014-11-18: Project 300 Drawings
> 
> _Another significant step forward....._
> 
> :-!


Thank you for that.


----------



## WS65

Bill, any news on the project 300? Would love an update.


----------



## Artonthewrist

WS65 said:


> Bill, any news on the project 300? Would love an update.


What he said, "here here" is there any news on project 300 !!!


----------



## mrklabb

No news is news?


----------



## Mirabello1

Why does this take so long, sorry I'm new to this brand, but come on, even a custom job from RGM takes less than year..


----------



## artefact0

4 years. It's beyond of understandable. Never seen that anywhere.
I've opened a ticket for a refund 12 days ago but no heard Bill since.


----------



## Xding

4 years now even without a sketch? At this rate, none of us will see the watch.....


----------



## Chromejob

I seem to recall seeing design sketches. Are you guys SURE there's been no final design renders? >:|


// Tapatalk on iPad Mini - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech folio kybd //


----------



## cybercat

2015-02-02: P300 Drawings In
I assume all you guys saw this yesterday? 
(...or earlier today, depending on your timezone)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

cybercat said:


> 2015-02-02: P300 Drawings In
> I assume all you guys saw this yesterday?
> (...or earlier today, depending on your timezone)


 I had looked earlier today (2 Feb) but this was not there then. So... Thanks! for posting!

|>|>


----------



## artefact0

Xding said:


> 4 years now even without a sketch? At this rate, none of us will see the watch.....


:-!

How many time Bill took to build and deliver the Kingston? Does anyone know?


----------



## Chromejob

Xding said:


> 4 years now even without a sketch? At this rate, none of us will see the watch.....





Chromejob said:


> I seem to recall seeing design sketches. Are you guys SURE there's been no final design renders? >:|
> 
> // Tapatalk on iPad Mini - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech folio kybd //





Yao said:


> Finally the update is ready. I can't tell you how relieved I am to be actually posting something. I spent a pretty frustrating day so far playing with fonts and proportions. Mostly it came down to the flattop 3 in the number 30 on the bezel. I had to do more "customization to a standard font than I normally do. There is still more work do on that number to pretty it up. Still looks more like the bride of Frankenstein right now.
> 
> Here are the changes:
> 
> * Side profile is the same, no changes
> * The bezel font has been updated: Let me know what you think of the style of the font and then let me know details like the stroke thickness if you have an opinion. The stroke thickness of the numbers varied widely (no pun intended) amongst the original watches so I think we can do whatever you guys would prefer, within reason.
> * Dial font has been updated: I was going to use the Pluto font but opted to modify a Copperplate Gothic font instead. The bezel font is based on the same font as the dial so there will be some consistency. However I had to tweak the dial numbers differently from the bezel to re-create the same feel.
> * Bezel insert inner-diameter and outter-diameter have been increased. The last version felt as if the bezel insert was too dominant so I increased its diameter and made the width of the insert narrower.
> * Dial has been increased in size slightly to keep it in proportion with the bezel insert.
> * Bezel diameter has stayed the same
> * Case length is the same
> 
> You will probably note that there is a lot of gray area between the dial and the bezel insert. Most of this space is where the crystal will sit so you won't be able to see the span between the dial and the bezel insert. I am planning making the edge of the case opening reminiscent of the tension rings that were used to keep the original acrylic crystals in place. Since we are using sapphire we won't need a tension ring.
> 
> Well let me know what you think. We are close to getting the broad strokes done. After we get the dial and bezel insert nailed down its to the nitty gritty of spec'ing everything out and getting the technical drawings started.
> 
> Btw I did meet with the case supplier while I was Basel and they have the preliminary drawing and are working on the quotation for the case.
> 
> [Image removed to prevent confusion, there's a newer one below]





Yao said:


> Here is the latest. Biggest difference is that:
> 
> * I started with a standard Helvetica font and then customized it. This was because the round top 3 just looked awkward in my last iteration.
> * 3.27 features no serif on the "1" and 3.27a uses a serif on the "1"
> 
> If you ask me the serif'd "1" adds a stronger and more aggressive feel to the design. The sans-serif "1" has a softer and more vintage feel to it.
> 
> Other than the "1" issue this is the time to bring up any other issues about the design. After I get a feel for whether 3.27 or 3.27a is the way to go I will basically close off the design process to any major changes so that I can begin work on fine tuning the design as well as work on the technical drawings for the case supplier.
> 
> View attachment 1282611


Here ya go, xding. All you had to do was search for "drawing."

Does anyone know if there's one newer than 3.27?

// Tapatalk on iPad Mini - Misspelling courtesy of Logitech folio kybd //


----------



## Xding

Well I wont call it a sketch. But good news anyway that the technical drawings are being discussed with the case supplier. So there is a hope to actually see the watch by 2016


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Hey All,
I see a new post today under Project 300 News.... :-!

2015-04-14: Project 300 Drawings

:think: Things seem to be progressing...

--- Best ---


----------



## Xding

l


----------



## TheMeasure

the latest..
2015-05-13: Project 300 Design Feedback


----------



## TheMeasure

2 updates in a month for the Project 300

2015-05-21: Project 300 Drawings


----------



## TheMeasure

A new update just posted:

2015-07-01: Project 300 



> I received the drawings for the last 3 parts I was waiting on. Unfortunately they were not received early enough for me to review before our annual pilgrimage to Taiwan to visit the in-laws (which begins in 12 hours from now). As long as these last three drawings don't have any issues I should be able to complete a final review of the drawings after I get back on the 20th of July. The goal is to sign-off on the drawings and begin sampling by the beginning of August. We have an idea for the case back design but again we will have to present this after our return.


----------



## TheMeasure

A beefier update, just in: 2015-08-11 Project 300



> Update on the Project 300's status:
> * I am reviewing, hopefully for the last time, all of the drawings for the project. I hope to sign-off on them this week or next.
> * Case back engraving: I have the details on the case back done (serial number, material, movement type, etc.) At this point we just need to decide what, if any, decorative design will be included on the case back. We are currently preparing a mock-up of a design we like for your review. We hope to get this published in the next few weeks so that it can be included in the first round of the sample parts.
> * MOD Sword hands: We have been testing a new supply chain for the hands. We discussed this in the post PoP - Watch Hands Pt. 1. We will be preparing Pt. 2 for release in the next few weeks. However the results were better than we expected and have resulted in the best set of MOD Sword hand that we have ever done. The downside of this process is that it will take a long time (6-12 months) to produce all of the hands we will need for this project because of all of the QC steps and frequent flyer miles that the hands will accumulate. With this in mind we will actually be starting production of the hands ASAP (i.e. before the case samples will be done).


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Now that has my attention!









 Awesome.......

|>|>


----------



## WhatATool

Is it possible to become part of the "Plankowner" team for this watch? Or is the only option remaining to wait and hope to be able to pre-order it? I am excited about this watch, and would like to convey my desire for a steel bracelet to be designed/included. I also want to ensure a place in line to purchase one.


----------



## tmoris

ur late for the plank bus somewhere around the 3 year mark


----------



## WhatATool

Forgive me for not discovering the world of fine watches until 2 years ago.  But given that, what are my options for getting involved in this project? Is the only option to wait for the pre-order phase?


----------



## TheMeasure

WhatATool said:


> Forgive me for not discovering the world of fine watches until 2 years ago.  But given that, what are my options for getting involved in this project? Is the only option to wait for the pre-order phase?


Welcome to MKII! You will have a chance at the 2nd Stage Pre-Order. Only one man knows when that will happen, so until then make sure you've submitted your email: Project 300/Notify Me. Also wouldnt hurt to check in from time to time, members are really good about posting new news/updates here on the forum.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Bill has posted some more information on Project 300 :-!

Go To- 2015-09-24: Project 300 Update

|>|>


----------



## MHe225

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Bill has posted some more information on Project 300 :-!


Let me lower the barrier even more .... no need to click; this is what you will read:



MKII Admin said:


> 2015-09-24: Project 300 Update
> 
> Waiting on case supplier for feedback on my comments. The comments are regarding small, but important, details that needed to be double checked.
> I completed the hand designs earlier today and have released the information to the hand manufacturer. Due to the time it will take to get the hour and minute hands made to my standards we have to start now before the cases are begun and slowly build up our inventory.
> The dial designs are completed and ready to go the manufacturer. We will send these out the same time we approve the case designs and we know that case sampling has been started. I know some of you are curious so I will note that I have completed designs using a big triangle dial and one with the 12 at the, well, 12 o'clock position. Both dials have been designed in date and non-date versions. I will likely do a survey to see if there is enough demand to make all or if I should only make a selection of the dials.


It's all coming together, slowly but steadily. Like OCM, I consider this excellent news |>

Suggestion to Mr, Yao, borrowed from the Kingston playbook: make both dials and put the alternate dial in the Plank-kit ;-)


----------



## kmangino47

Both dials. I agree. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aceldama

I just want the ordering to open up. Take my money Mr. Yao...


----------



## JohnLT13

Aceldama said:


> I just want the ordering to open up. Take my money Mr. Yao...


My feelings also. I have recently discovered his brand and now I really would like one.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Project 300: Update (originally: Dial design (thread reboot)*

 Hello All-

Project 300 News (posted October 8, 2015) :-!

Go to: 2015-10-08: Project 300 update

or:



> October 8, 2015 By admin
> 
> 
> The case drawings have been approved.
> We are still working on one issue with regards to the bracelet. Its not a major issue but still an important one
> Hands are currently in production


Progress! :-!


----------



## mtbmike

*Re: Project 300: Update (originally: Dial design (thread reboot)*

:-!Some motivation to accept the long delay:-! 

Pic courtesy of flame on the omega forums


----------



## gwold

*Re: Project 300: Update (originally: Dial design (thread reboot)*

Another blog update, for those who're watching.



> The technical drawings for the case parts has been approved. Sampling has begun. We expect to see the samples before Baselworld in March.
> Bracelet drawings are still in process. I found a minor but significant oversight. It has been corrected but we are waiting on the final drawings.
> We will begin the sampling for the dials later this month so that we have dial samples ready in time for the case samples.
> I will post soon about the case back decision. Sorry for the delay. Getting the case drawings that last few feet into approval has been the primary focus these last few weeks.
> Assuming the case samples turn out okay the factory has noted that the case parts could be ready as soon as June 2016. This is a BIG "IF" at this point but we will do our best to push this project toward that goal. It has to be said that there is normally some adjustments that have to be made to the samples before approval for mass production can begin. That being said we will have to begin the 2nd Stage Pre-order probably before the end of this year so that we have the funds available to pay the for the case parts, start the dial production, and continue with the hand production.
> 2nd Stage plankowner payment: We will begin the process of collecting this payment next week. Plankowners will have approximately 2-3 months to submit this deposit. We will also collect serial number requests at this point. An email will go out next week as soon as the ordering page is up.


----------



## mlb212

*Re: Project 300: Update (originally: Dial design (thread reboot)*

Crap, sounds like I am going to have to decide by year end whether or not to jump on board.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project 300: Update (originally: Dial design (thread reboot)*



mlb212 said:


> Crap, sounds like I am going to have to decide by year end whether or not to jump on board.


 .....Wouldn't be a 'Tough Call' for me....but then, I am a plankowner.....Yippee! :-!









-- Best --

_p.s. Just Do It!_


----------



## Artonthewrist

Hello out there,
Curious, I've not read anywhere yet or have missed it has anybody seen a price on the 300 and the Nassau ?

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## Dugan27

Subscribed to thread and looking for more info.


----------



## Artonthewrist

There's another p300 update don't no how to copy and paste but it's on the
MkII site : )


----------



## pinchoff

Is this where it all started? (earlier, I guess...)

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-300-a-346136.html

Back in Jan 2010. Excitement is far less than what I feel, after 6 years.

(I mean that I am still very excited)


----------



## JNH

I'm a new watch collector and Bill Yao watches are top shelf. I hope his watches become more available now that he moving into his new place. Can't wait until the project 300 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] stage pro-order opens up.


----------



## JNH

Does anyone know when the project 300 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] stage pre-order will open?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project 300: Dial design - First Prototype Photos!*

 First photos of the prototype for Project 300 surface in this thread.... Yippee!

ATTN: GTG & The Key West Reveal - Page 8

--- Best ---

|>|>


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Project 300: Dial design - First Prototype Photos!*

I just wanted to write: 'before we were so rudely interrupted', but I'm too late. Glad that OCM kicked this thread into life again!

For re-openers: Apart from the pic posted above, there must be other pics as well; back, profile, crown; please share these with us!

Menno


----------



## mlb212

I took this for you guys yesterday


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

mlb212 said:


> I took this for you guys yesterday.....


 Excellent! Thanks! |>|>


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Re: Project 300: Dial design (thread reboot) -- More Pics from GTG*

 Here is a link to some more great photos of the Project 300 taken at the GTG Saturday.... Thanks for posting! :-!

ATTN: GTG & The Key West Reveal - Page 14

|>|> Thank You Steve356!!! |>|>


----------



## sennaster

mlb212 said:


> I took this for you guys yesterday


i will need this in my life.


----------



## fastfras

Wondering..

Is there a non date version of this watch on the drawing board?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

fastfras said:


> Wondering..
> 
> Is there a non date version of this watch on the drawing board?


 Yessir! That's what I'm planked for- Big Triangle, no-date.

:think: It is going to be Awesome..... and there should be some available as a General Order too.....

--- Best ---

|>|>


----------



## TheDude

Where do I voice my opinion/desire for a gray bezel insert option? 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

This photo makes it look gray. Totally digging it.










Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

News Release from MKII on Project 300 ---> 2016-03-15: Project 300 update

*2016-03-15: Project 300 update*

March 15, 2016 By admin


Case samples have arrived. 
I have completed the first review of the case samples. Mostly it is minor issues so we will see what the case supplier says during our meeting in Switzerland later this week. 
Dial samples have arrived but there are some issues we need to address. A report has been issued to the vendor and we are currently awaiting their feedback. 
The pictures we have posted and will post up until this point are using a Sea Fighter crown that fit the case. We hope to have the final crowns in hand before the end of the month.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Photos from Bill in Basel..... posted from his Instagram at ---> http://instagram.com/mkiiwatch









Yeppirs. That's the *Project 300 proto* peeking out from under that sleeve there.... Lookin' Real Fine.... b-)

*Sweet. :-!

|>|>
*


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Bill has posted a photo on MKII's Instagram of the Project 300 crowns.... 









Yummy!

|>|>

p.s. You can navigate to this link to see more photos ---> https://www.instagram.com/mkiiwatch/


----------



## Pentameter

I saw those earlier and looked at the crown on my Kingston… these new ones look SIGNIFICANTLY better, the signature is much deeper and more prominent. Looking good !


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Sighting report - More *Project 300* prototype goodness...... :-!









:think: This would seem to be from Bill's recent time passing through Paris....







...Shamelessly hijacked from MKII's Instagram at ---> http://instagram.com/mkiiwatch

---- Best ----

|>|>


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Project 300 Sighting report - More *Project 300* prototype goodness.....






















...Shamelessly hijacked from MKII's Instagram at ---> http://instagram.com/mkiiwatch

_Looking Good!
_
--- Best ---

|>|>


----------



## enkidu

OK, Now I'm excited! No-date destro for me! w00t!


----------



## Xding

Anybody lucky enough to get the first round of general ordering?


从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## diablogt

Dam n. It looks sharper than the Omega. Drooling


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Possible* *Project 300* *Prototype* sighting Report:







From Bill / MKII's Instagram.......Shamelessly hijacked from ---> http://instagram.com/mkiiwatch

_*Is this the Project 300 bracelet??
*_








Here is a blown-up portion of the photo above....









Looking Good....

|>|>


----------



## Thieuster

Good find! And a great bracelet. Thanks for your sharp eye.

Menno


----------



## TheMeasure

Another Project 300 bracelet sighting! Looks like the same one as OCM posted earlier.








(photo by @americantrench | Instagram)


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: _*@TheMeasure*_ -- Thanks for posting -- That is a great set in that shot. |>|>

 Project 300 sighting again --- Shamelessly hijacked from ---> http://instagram.com/mkiiwatch









|>|>


----------



## mario24601

diablogt said:


> Dam n. It looks sharper than the Omega. Drooling


 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Project 300 Purloined Pic of Prototype.....









From MKII's Instagram...

|>|>


----------



## Thieuster

I think we can safely say that the design of this watch is another MKII success /understatement modus OFF/

Menno


----------



## MHe225

Thieuster said:


> I think we can safely say that the design of this watch is another MKII success /understatement modus OFF/


I can only agree, Menno. This will be yet another winner and once all are sold out, a much sought after model. I wouldn't be surprised if many owners of original (Omega) SM300's will get this one too - they'll be able to take their watch in to the water without the risk of flooding.

The wait has been long, got in on Plank pre-order on March 16, 2010, but all of that will be forgotten soon.

I'm happy with all my MKII pieces, Quad10, Kingston, Nassau BC and Key West on the way, but this is the one I've really been waiting for. I got too late in to watches to get the original, Watchco sold of their inventory when I was away from any computer for a few days, so now options are the Borealis at one end of the spectrum and the Watchco's and Omega's at the other end. Price wise, Project 300 is a happy median. Looks- and quality-wise, I think its on par with the Watchco's and Omega's with the added benefit of truly modern and new components and hence worry free & waterproof and thus maybe even preferable to those who actually will wear the watch.

Apologies for my ramblings; can you tell that I'm excited?

Hope that someone will post side-by-side shots of the P300 and above mentioned alternatives / originals.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Project 300 Proto-type photo perused ( and purloined)









@ MKII's Instagram ---> https://www.instagram.com/mkiiwatch/


----------



## airborne_bluezman

Is it me or do the bracelets on the 300s look different? The left looks oysterish and the right looks vintagy.



TheMeasure said:


> Another Project 300 bracelet sighting! Looks like the same one as OCM posted earlier.
> 
> View attachment 7784842
> 
> (photo by @americantrench | Instagram)


----------



## Thieuster

Note: this thread started on April 27, 2012. Tomorrow, 4 yrs ago. And the end is nearly there! Great

Menno


----------



## airborne_bluezman

Any idea when delivery would be assuming getting in on 2nd stage preorder? I'm new to this thread.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

airborne_bluezman said:


> Any idea when delivery would be assuming getting in on 2nd stage preorder? I'm new to this thread.


 -- No --

:think: You must be prepared to wait.

_(I have been waiting for almost as long as I have been a member here.....)_

But: *I don't mind waiting.







*

--- Best ---

p.s. If you haven't done so, You might want to take a look at, and read, the Project 300 News ---> Project 300: 2nd Stage Pre-order Opening


----------



## SeanE

I keep missing the emails to put my deposit down--they're all taken by the time I read it. 

Anyone interested in selling their spot?


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

More Project 300 Goodness....









From MKII's Instagram....

|>|>


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

This just in..... Project 300 prototype on strap from Erika's Originals...















Once again....shamelessly stolen from MKII's Instagram....








:think: It's .... Fabulous... No? ;-)

|>|>


----------



## TheDude

Just noticed now, the bezel markers and numerals appear to be silver.

These should be white correct?

Also, the font and markers should be thicker and font could be tweaked a bit IMO.

The insert doesn't look bad now, but it could just be so much more...

Oh... and to keep my post on-topic, why oh why aren't the dial's "6" and "9" open???? Why? 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDude

A few different variations, but all -open-.


----------



## Aceldama

I've been wanting an MKII/ or an Omega SM300. It's a nice watch, but I think I'm going to contact Watchco and get my self a NOS... The closed 6 and 9 are throwing my off a bit as well.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

TheDude said:


> Just noticed now, the bezel markers and numerals appear to be silver.
> 
> These should be white correct?
> 
> Also, the font and markers should be thicker and font could be tweaked a bit IMO.
> 
> The insert doesn't look bad now, but it could just be so much more...
> 
> Oh... and to keep my post on-topic, why oh why aren't the dial's "6" and "9" open???? Why?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


:think: On the appearance of the Project 300 sapphire bezel insert.... In the Paradive sapphire 12-hour-bezel that I have...









...the BGW9 is on the underside (or is contained within) the sapphire. It appears as a silver-grey color in most normal light, but glows blue. This is just the way it is....I'm fine with it. I don't want an 'exact copy' of the original --* I want a better* (meaning more durable) watch than the original one that this homage (not a _copy_) uses as its reference material or starting point. _

Edit: photo added after post to show the sapphire bezel and markings: Note for photo --this is a quick shot from my cell phone under bright cloudy-day natural light, no exposure modification, auto-ISO, daylight white balance, cropped, resized; no other jiggery-pokery...The numerals and and markings look a bit brighter than the bead-blasted surfaces around them, but not quite white, sort of light silver-grey....)_

:think: On the subject of '6's and 9's' -- There has been quite a discussion and debate on this matter, but that all happened _four to five years ago_.... I consider the matter to be settled unless MKII decides to open it back up... Let's move on, please. 

See one of Bill's responses and take up research into the history of this Project and its evolution starting at ---> Project 300: Dial design (thread reboot) - Page 2


----------



## TheDude

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: On the appearance of the Project 300 sapphire bezel insert.... In the Paradive sapphire 12-hour-bezel that I have, the BGW9 is under (or inside) the sapphire. It appears as a silver-grey color in most normal light, but glows blue. This is just the way it is....I'm fine with it. I don't want an 'exact copy' of the original --* I want a better* (meaning more durable) watch than the original one that this homage (not a _copy_) uses as its reference material or starting point.
> 
> :think: On the subject of '6's and 9's' -- There has been quite a discussion and debate on this matter, but that all happened _four to five years ago_.... I consider the matter to be settled unless MKII decides to open it back up... Let's move on, please.
> 
> See one of Bill's responses and take up research into the history of this Project and its evolution starting at ---> Project 300: Dial design (thread reboot) - Page 2


Well, I'd rather we not move on... Sixes and nines want to be open!

I championed this for date wheels here and now we have the superb Key West wheel...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

@ TheDude - Not to be rude, but are you a Plank Holder for this Project?

 Please don't take this the wrong way....

If you are a Plank Holder (or were previously) I wish you had been around *four or five years ago* when this was 'discussed' early on - I was in favor of '_open 6's and 9's_' (along with other ideas, some of my own suggestions included) that were not embraced or adopted.

At this point, I just want the watch to come to me and get worn... 

--- Best ---


----------



## TheDude

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> @ TheDude - Not to be rude, but are you a Plank Holder for this Project?
> 
> Please don't take this the wrong way....
> 
> If you are a Plank Holder (or were previously) I wish you had been around *four or five years ago* when this was 'discussed' early on - I was in favor of '_open 6's and 9's_' (along with other ideas, some of my own suggestions included) that were not embraced or adopted.
> 
> At this point, I just want the watch to come to me and get worn...
> 
> --- Best ---


No offense taken. I've made similar challenges when I was a plank holder.

My status doesn't make it unreasonable or incorrect input/criticism though.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

And...yet another purloined pic of proto-type Project 300....









....on Erika's MN strap.... :-!

*Credit to* (and _stolen _from) *MKII's Instagram.

|>|>
*


----------



## pinchoff

Tell me quando, quando, quando, quando, quando :-d



OmegaCosmicMan said:


> At this point, I just want the watch to come to me and get worn...
> 
> --- Best ---


----------



## Xding

Aceldama said:


> I've been wanting an MKII/ or an Omega SM300. It's a nice watch, but I think I'm going to contact Watchco and get my self a NOS... The closed 6 and 9 are throwing my off a bit as well.


Is watchco still offering the non date version?


----------



## Aceldama

Xding said:


> Is watchco still offering the non date version?


Yes, mine just shipped ;^)

They are no longer selling on the WatchCo site and have set up base in New Zealand. There are some threads on the Omega forum with more information. PM me if you have problems finding it.

Jose


----------



## Aceldama

TheDude said:


> No offense taken. I've made similar challenges when I was a plank holder.
> 
> My status doesn't make it unreasonable or incorrect input/criticism though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


I believe in the power of The Dude. May he abide...


----------



## mega

Aceldama said:


> Yes, mine just shipped ;^)
> 
> They are no longer selling on the WatchCo site and have set up base in New Zealand. There are some threads on the Omega forum with more information. PM me if you have problems finding it.
> 
> Jose


PM sent. =)

Interested in a Date version, actually.

As for the 300, I like how Bill offers both Date and Non-date versions. Still waiting for the next round of pre-ordering. I keep getting paranoid that the notification email will go to my junk folder....


----------



## Aceldama

Look what arrived today...









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Its too pretty....Couldn't pass it up... 









Reposted from MKII's Instagram....


----------



## timeturner7

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Its too pretty....Couldn't pass it up...
> 
> View attachment 8164154
> 
> 
> Reposted from MKII's Instagram....


I ordered this strap the day Bill posted this pic. 
I think it will look great on the Nassau, and then Key West all in waiting for the above Project 300, which looks fantastic on the Marine Nationale strap!!


----------



## TheDude

TheDude said:


> No offense taken. I've made similar challenges when I was a plank holder.
> 
> My status doesn't make it unreasonable or incorrect input/criticism though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


I'm a 2nd Stage pre-order now.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

TheDude said:


> I'm a 2nd Stage pre-order now.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Congrats TheDude....I guess Ummm, your desire for this beauty 'sort of' overcame your criticisms....

 I hope you can enjoy yours, as much as I will (my Plank Order) once it shows up....








--- Best ---

p.s. Attaching Today's photo from MKII's Instagram... 









|>|>


----------



## TheDude

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Congrats TheDude....I guess Ummm, your desire for this beauty 'sort of' overcame your criticisms....
> 
> I hope you can enjoy yours, as much as I will (my Plank Order) once it shows up....
> View attachment 8250450
> 
> 
> --- Best ---


I have criticisms of every MKII. That doesn't mean I don't love them or buy them. 

I will always push for changes I would like to see, but often you don't succeed.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

TheDude said:


> I have criticisms of every MKII. That doesn't mean I don't love them or buy them.
> 
> I will always push for changes I would like to see, but often you don't succeed.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


 *HEY! *_I resemble that remark... :-d:-d_


----------



## mega

TheDude said:


> I'm a 2nd Stage pre-order now.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Me too! Looking forward to it!


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Another Project 300 'Big-Triangled-Date-Dial' repost from MKII's Instagram.....









|>|>


----------



## Thieuster

It is interesting to see that Bill uses a different approach between this watch and the Key West. The latter wasn't revealed until the last minute; in fact only after the moment Dietmar got his, we had a chance to see the pepsi dial. Where as the P/300 is out and about even before the final design & components are in place.

Both approaches appeal to me. Just curious why Bill has chosen this 'route'.

Menno


----------



## TheDude

Thieuster said:


> It is interesting to see that Bill uses a different approach between this watch and the Key West. The latter wasn't revealed until the last minute; in fact only after the moment Dietmar got his, we had a chance to see the pepsi dial. Where as the P/300 is out and about even before the final design & components are in place.
> 
> Both approaches appeal to me. Just curious why Bill has chosen this 'route'.
> 
> Menno


It's not radically different than some past releases. The LRRP was just a single "head shot" until the first two were delivered. The Kingston made its debut in the flesh at the first meet-up in 2011. I think it all has to do with how well the QC goes on the component parts. Clearly, the 300 QC is ahead of where the Key West was so we're seeing assembled examples pretty early. May also have something to do with the production timetable. Seems perhaps the 300 is ready to go but simply waiting for production slots.


----------



## heebs

TheDude said:


> It's not radically different than some past releases. The LRRP was just a single "head shot" until the first two were delivered. The Kingston made its debut in the flesh at the first meet-up in 2011. I think it all has to do with how well the QC goes on the component parts. Clearly, the 300 QC is ahead of where the Key West was so we're seeing assembled examples pretty early. May also have something to do with the production timetable. Seems perhaps the 300 is ready to go but simply waiting for production slots.


Far fewer variables with the 300 too. 2 dials- date and non date, but the printing is the same vs 3 dials on the KW. One bezel on the 300 vs 2 for the KW.

Hopefully this all equals less headache for Master Bill.


----------



## TheDude

***** said:


> Far fewer variables with the 300 too. 2 dials- date and non date, but the printing is the same vs 3 dials on the KW. One bezel on the 300 vs 2 for the KW.
> 
> Hopefully this all equals less headache for Master Bill.


I still want a gray bezel insert on the 300...


----------



## sennaster

The more pics Bill posts, the more of my things i want to sell


----------



## Chromejob

*re: seen more in the wild prior to production run*



TheDude said:


> ... May also have something to do with the production timetable. Seems perhaps the 300 is ready to go but simply waiting for production slots.


May also have to do with the fact that Bill clearly loves the one he's been wearing while globetrotting, and posting on Instagram.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

*Project 300 : Dial Design*

 As posted on MKII's Instagram feed.....









OK ok ok ok.... (Background Music --"Ima Believer")

Fantastic!

:-!


----------



## SnooPPP

Wow love the lume on that


----------



## d88

Ok, I've succumbed. Do I need another watch, probably not, do I want a project 300, hell yeah. Now it's just a case of saving those pennies and sharpen my trigger finger for the monthly allocation scramble. Game on !


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

Bill Yao has posted a News update for Project 300...

Here ---> 2016-08-30: Project 300 Update


----------



## WhatATool

Argh those sword hands with a non-date dial... so tempting!!!


----------



## mario24601

Finished product will look great! 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

MKII has posted this Project Update:



> The Project 300's case components have entered the mass production phase. The only part that is awaiting approval for mass production is the end-link for the bracelet. As noted earlier we do not anticipate this creating any delays in the delivery timetable.


To read the update on the Project 300 News Page,

Go To ---> 2016-09-16: Project 300 Update


----------



## jussi

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> MKII has posted this Project Update:
> 
> To read the update on the Project 300 News Page,
> 
> Go To ---> 2016-09-16: Project 300 Update
> 
> View attachment 9411858


 This is :-!


----------



## pl39g

Looks to be a nice rendition of the original


----------



## mleroux

Sooo glad I got a pre-order in! Does anyone know at what stage will the option for date or non-date be done? And how?


----------



## TheMeasure

mleroux said:


> Sooo glad I got a pre-order in! Does anyone know at what stage will the option for date or non-date be done? And how?


Most likely you'll select your configuration upon final payment.


----------



## TheMeasure

I don't think this has been posted here yet.*

2016-12-07: Project 300 Update*



> Case parts are in the final phases of manufacturing
> The bracelet end-link has been approved for mass production and production is currently in process
> Best estimate right now is that we will begin QC of the case parts in Q1 of 2017. If all goes well delivery should be able to begin in the summer of 2017
> We will be taking photos and preparing the web site for receipt of final selections and payments. We expect that we will start ordering for the Plankowners in February/March of 2017. We will follow the same process as we did with the Project GMT where we will open up ordering in batches. The expectation is that we will contact one group approximately each month.
> Thank you for your support and patience.
> This will likely be the last update before 2017 so we wanted to wish everyone a wonderful holiday season and all the best for 2017!


----------



## poisonwazthecure

Does Bill have a staff? Lots of "we" and not "I". From reading the posts I get the impression he has at least one other person helping.


----------



## Darwin

Could be the Royal "we" as well...



poisonwazthecure said:


> Does Bill have a staff? Lots of "we" and not "I". From reading the posts I get the impression he has at least one other person helping.


----------



## TheMeasure

This project tends to get overlooked by the Key West, but here is the latest update from a few days ago.

2017-02-21: Project 300



> Here is the current status of the Project 300:
> 
> Case parts have begun to arrive.
> Bracelet is still in production. The EP (end-pieces) are still in production. We had some comments on the finishing and saw an updated EP last month and sent them our feedback earlier this month.
> We have finished the review of the non-date dial sample and that should be going into production in March. Right now we are prepping the sample for the catalog photos so that we can finalize the ordering page.
> We are still reviewing the date version of the Project 300 dial.
> We will resume the production of the hands next month. We had been testing the supply chain and are comfortable with proceeding with the mass production of the hands. This will take more time than normal since we are sub-contracting with a specialist in lume application to finish the hands. To compensate for this we will start the production of the hands as soon as possible.
> QC will begin soon and we will start contacting Plankowners to submit their final selections and payments next month. We have to shoot the catalog photos before we can open final selection.
> As always thank you for your patience and support of the Project 300.


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## Flip.willy

I caved and put an order in, couldn't stay away, I love the pics I've seen. Is the prod version going to have a white date wheel as well? I actually like the look better, but haven't seen this discussed at all and seems the originals were black, so hoping to confirm. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ttatum

Thanks for sharing the update. I pre-ordered at the end of December (newbie). Happy to see the progress on the non-date dial, as I plan to order non-date. Eagerly awaiting......


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## TheMeasure

Flip.willy said:


> I caved and put an order in, couldn't stay away, I love the pics I've seen. Is the prod version going to have a white date wheel as well? I actually like the look better, but haven't seen this discussed at all and seems the originals were black, so hoping to confirm.


Caving in and buying an MKII isn't a bad thing..especially when it's a Limited Edition forum project! ;-)

As far a the date wheel, all the pics I've seen have been white. I'm pretty sure that's the final choice but could be wrong. It's been awhile since I've read through the Project 300 design threads. If you haven't already check out MKII's IG page, Bill has some great pics of the 300!!


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## TheMeasure

ttatum said:


> Thanks for sharing the update. I pre-ordered at the end of December (newbie). Happy to see the progress on the non-date dial, as I plan to order non-date. Eagerly awaiting......


You're welcome. Congrats on getting in on your first MKII. I'm going with non date as well.

While the KW has had most of the attention, the Project 300 will be equally as special. Bill is still putting as much energy, focus, and passion into making the 300 as great as all other MKIIs have been. This one is a sleeper that people will wish they had gotten when it was available.


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## enkidu

No date is definitely the way to go. I'm going to get mine destro!


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## ttatum

TheMeasure said:


> You're welcome. Congrats on getting in on your first MKII. I'm going with non date as well.
> 
> .


 Actually, this will be my second MKII. I picked up a Blackwater through a forum sale a couple of years ago. The 300 will be my first MKII built just for me|>

Cheers


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## kjenckes

I agree. I think it should be considered and would show precision


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## Sdengr

Seriously on the fence about putting a pre-order in for one of these. I missed the Fulcrum and would love a tank-like MKII to take with me everywhere. Not that the Kingston and the like aren't sturdy, but something about the military heritage of the 300 draw me in. I can only wish that bill would have put a circled "Y" on the dial ALA the Hawkinge which had the same. The inside joke here being in the original SM300 royal navy variant they had a circled "T" for Tritium and the same on the JLC pilot watches that inspired Bill to make the Hawkinge. Bill doesn't use Tritium so instead put a circle "Y" on the Hawkinge. Just nitpicking here of course, still a beautiful watch!


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## Flip.willy

I think this was hotly debated amongst the plank owners at the beginning of this thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sdengr

Flip.willy said:


> I think this was hotly debated amongst the plank owners at the beginning of this thread.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ahh gotcha. I never got around to check the earlier posts, but at least now I know it was discussed at some point.


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## WS65

Any news on the Project 300?


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## cybercat

Sorry wrong thread.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Picture of Date Dial production samples....

https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/hello-mkii-instagram-4189682-15.html#post43734911


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## TheMeasure

From MKII's Instagram Live Story...take a look before it disappears. Some cool footage from Japan as well.


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## ManualGearbox

Bill was writing the final selections email for plankowners last night...









Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## TheDude

Great news!! Hoping to get mine in the coming months 


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## ManualGearbox

TheDude said:


> Great news!! Hoping to get mine in the coming months
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had some back and forth with them about a month ago and were shooting for an end of year delivery for the first production run.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## MHe225

Just made final payment for 2 Plank Orders. I can only hope these show up in time, as we are running out of time ......


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## TheDude

ManualGearbox said:


> I had some back and forth with them about a month ago and were shooting for an end of year delivery for the first production run.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


That's what I was guessing...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ManualGearbox

MHe225 said:


> Just made final payment for 2 Plank Orders. I can only hope these show up in time, as we are running out of time ......


My pre-order is well out of the plank phase. What options were extended to you?

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## ManualGearbox

...anyone???

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## MHe225

ManualGearbox said:


> My pre-order is well out of the plank phase. What options were extended to you?


Choices are slightly more liberal than described on the Project pages. 
Supply of the extra's is limited" and are available on a first come first serve basis (that's the order in which these are ordered, not delivered):


date or no-date
3 date-wheel options:
white & black numbers (std)
black & white numbers (limited)
black & red numbers (limited)
choice of bracelet or one of two different straps
upgraded springbar tool for all Plank Owners


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## ManualGearbox

MHe225 said:


> Choices are slightly more liberal than described on the Project pages.
> Supply of the extra's is limited" and are available on a first come first serve basis (that's the order in which these are ordered, not delivered):
> 
> 
> date or no-date
> 3 date-wheel options:
> white & black numbers (std)
> black & white numbers (limited)
> black & red numbers (limited)
> choice of bracelet or one of two different straps
> upgraded springbar tool for all Plank Owners


Thanks for the info! I'm particularly looking forward to the black and red dial.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## MHe225

ManualGearbox said:


> Thanks for the info! I'm particularly looking forward to the black and red dial.


Not dial .... date-wheel.

Very limited stock - Mr. Yao didn't indicate how many of these are available, but my impression is that if all Plank-owners opting for the date version also opt for the black-red combo, he'll already need to disappoint some / many. Hence the c_laim first, serve first_ policy.

Again, my interpretation - this is not an official MKII announcement or statement. And I am not a mind-reader


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## ManualGearbox

From the MKII Instagram feed...









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## ManualGearbox

ManualGearbox said:


> From the MKII Instagram feed...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Bonus shot of the case back.









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## TheMeasure

Update on the new MKII site from 2.10.18

Project 300 Update | 2.10.18



> This is way overdue mostly because I had to find time to figure out the new site. (I was told not to touch anything by the designer  so I had to find time to be "taught" to use to the new system.) So here is a quick update as I have to write two more of these this morning:
> 
> 
> Dials: We have completed the QC of the date and non-date dials and we have enough parts on hand for all of the Plankowners and the Pre-order customers
> Hands: The first batch of hands have returned from the "lumers". The acceptance rate is lower than we hoped but much better than the last batch. So we have enough hands to begin assembly but will probably have to go through 5-6 more batches to get enough hands for all the Plankowners and Pre-order customers. At the moment we are prepping the next batch of "raw" hands to be sent out for lume application.
> Case parts: We are currently QC'ing the case parts and expect to begin test assemblies in the next 6-8 weeks.
> Pre-order Customers: We will be sending out an email to the pre-order customers this month to request their final selections so that we can pay vendors and start organizing and prioritizing the parts QC.
> I will apologize in advance if this update raises obvious questions that I haven't addressed here. I usually take more care when writing these but there's a lot of QC work to do and talking about it won't get it done. In addition QC work requires a lot of concentration so I am diving quite deep into these parts and rarely coming up for air during our 7 day schedule.


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## Semper Jeep

^Thank you for share this. I rarely bother visiting the website to look for updates because I just sit there and drool over what isn't available.


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## TheMeasure

Haha I know the feeling. You're welcome. 



Semper Jeep said:


> ^Thank you for share this. I rarely bother visiting the website to look for updates because I just sit there and drool over what isn't available.


IG: th3measure


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## TheMeasure

For those not on IG or maybe missed it.. Bill posted a cool story. Here's the screenshots.

















































































































































IG: th3measure


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## kb.watch

This process has been interesting to watch. I wish i would have gotten in on the preorder.


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## Longbow072

kb.watch said:


> This process has been interesting to watch. I wish i would have gotten in on the preorder.


Likewise, I should have snagged one when I had the chance. Although a CWC can be had in a very similar design to the Omega 300 homage and has real mil provenance with the same movement.


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## tmoris

I had had my name on the preorder since 2010 (?) and got off it like 3 (?) years ago and cant say Im regretting it.. I might get myself a Tornek at somepoint should they be readily available. But I dont think I will ever get on a preorder project again..


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## robmillersdg

First off I’m a huge MKII fan, and own several pieces. I ordered a Project 300 in 2011 and a little bit of my watch collecting soul dies every day this watch isn’t delivered. 

All that said, I get it. The QC Bill and team put to their pieces is nothing short of the best. As evidence, I own a Blaken Rolex Steve McQueen mod and a MKII LRRP. The MKII is better in every regard. The hands, dial, fit, finish, and feel of the LRRP are vastly superior to the Blaken which cost 10x the LRRP. 

So keep it up MKII!





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## Easydoesit

Really cool to see. Always fun watching progress.


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## enkidu

Hey guys! Long (long long) time no see! I figured it'd be fitting if I update this thread with the news that I took delivery of my Project 300! In amazing condition (of course) and a beauty! It's a destro, no-date, big triangle version (of course). It might be the only destro version out there. Photos to follow.


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## Wulfhedinn

There's some great designs in here!


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## anthony808

Not the best photographer but here's mine.


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## egwatchfan

anthony808 said:


> Not the best photographer but here's mine.
> 
> View attachment 15859097


what a beauty!!!


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## NateOne

Thank you for doing this.


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