# New 41mm Bulova Devil Diver



## debicks

Looks like Bulova is releasing a line of smaller Devil Diver watches. I personally don't mind the 44mm size but I'm sure this new 41mm will appeal to a lot of people. Price around 700 Euro. If only they used a better movement for that price.


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http://instagr.am/p/CBcqnC_HUPN/


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http://instagr.am/p/CBcrBfOHCP6/


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## riff raff

At that price point, the movement is the only thing preventing my purchase (wish they would do the smaller case, orange dial)


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## 127.72 MHz

Good case and overall design qualities but for the price point it misses the mark. (Or they could keep the price and add an ETA movement.)

Bulova is getting close but they're not quite there,...


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## NC_Hager626

Nice looking watch. However, at the price-point Bulova is asking, they could have used a better Miyota movement.


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## dg8dg7

Who are the people coming up with the price of these? How out to lunch do you need to be to charge 700eur for a myiota movement? What beautiful watches I would buy in a heartbeat if they were priced competitively. But 700eur, lol not a chance, and Bulova has to know that. I just don't get it.....

Upside is that they are at least listening to feedback, so I suspect a smaller moonwatch is coming at some point....

Edit: looks like they are selling for $575 USD, which is much more reasonable!

https://www.mastersintime.com/us/en/bulova-oceanographer-automatic-diving-watch-with-date-96b343.htm

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## BigBluefish

When they hit gray market under $500, that black & red will be mine.


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## tayloreuph

riff raff said:


> At that price point, the movement is the only thing preventing my purchase (wish they would do the smaller case, orange dial)


I believe you ca still get the LE off the Bulova site. I wonder how many are left, it was an initial run of 666

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## Commisar

debicks said:


> Looks like Bulova is releasing a line of smaller Devil Diver watches. I personally don't mind the 44mm size but I'm sure this new 41mm will appeal to a lot of people. Price around 700 Euro. If only they used a better movement for that price.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CBcqnC_HUPN/
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> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CBcrBfOHCP6/


If it's a 9015, great

If it's a 8xxx, not so great

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## debicks

Definitely 8xxx. That's what Bulova's been using in their autos. I wish they used the 9xxx.


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## WSN7

I love these things. The wife won't let me own another black/red watch because she doesn't believe in redundancy. HOPE they release more colors!


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## Stu47

I wish they offered it in quartz. I know that is heresy for many, but Bulova has a history with battery powered watches (ie 214). I know the 214 uses a tuning fork and is not quartz. Nothing like opening up your watch box and seeing your 214s all ready to be worn and all showing the correct time even after sitting for 6 days since they last entered the rotation. I don't understand the aversion/resistance to quartz watches. Everyone wants an automatic and you are lucky to get one that lasts 60 hours.


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## Stu47

debicks said:


> Looks like Bulova is releasing a line of smaller Devil Diver watches. I personally don't mind the 44mm size but I'm sure this new 41mm will appeal to a lot of people. Price around 700 Euro. If only they used a better movement for that price.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CBcqnC_HUPN/
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CBcrBfOHCP6/


Indeed. 41mm is much more wearable. I'd love it in 38mm


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## mb8780

So any idea is these will be available in the Conus?


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## tayloreuph

Anyone seen them in the metal yet?


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## cuthbert

tayloreuph said:


> Anyone seen them in the metal yet?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In Italy they have been available in shopping malls for a while, I posted a picture when I found them for the first time...I didn´t realise they were 41mm until they compared them with the "old" model.

Official price is 599, not 700, and it´s negotiable, they quickly became one of the favourite of Italian WIS, on a famous italian forum there are at least two long threads dedicated to the 41mm Devil divers:









Nuovi Bulova devil diver 41mm - page 9


se ne uscissero con un lunar pilot da 40-42 mm Giusta osservazione ! CITAZIONE (ilriga @ 3/6/2020, 09:47) se ne uscissero con un lunar pilot da 40-42 mm....Esatto. Credo farebbe il botto..Io non l'ho preso




orologi.forumfree.it













Bulova Oceanographer "Snorkel"


Buongiorno a tutti..Dopo tanto, rieccomi a presentare un orologio, nel caso specifico il mio ultimo acquisto.Bulova Oceanographic “Snorkel”...Se c’è




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I also add a picture I´ve taken two months ago with the old and new Oceanographer:










As you can see the newer model is almost a perfect reissue of the original from the 70s (besides the all red bezel), the proportions of the dials are so much better and even the discussed logo appears to be improved and more alive the original below:


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## cuthbert

Ok i did it.

After tough search I found a retailer available to make me a honest offer for this new 41mm Oceanographer, now it's on my wrist. From an aesthetical point of view I am pleased, now I need few days to test it and perhaps I will write a review.


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## Commisar

cuthbert said:


> In Italy they have been available in shopping malls for a while, I posted a picture when I found them for the first time...I didn´t realise they were 41mm until they compared them with the "old" model.
> 
> Official price is 599, not 700, and it´s negotiable, they quickly became one of the favourite of Italian WIS, on a famous italian forum there are at least two long threads dedicated to the 41mm Devil divers:
> 
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> Nuovi Bulova devil diver 41mm - page 9
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> se ne uscissero con un lunar pilot da 40-42 mm Giusta osservazione ! CITAZIONE (ilriga @ 3/6/2020, 09:47) se ne uscissero con un lunar pilot da 40-42 mm....Esatto. Credo farebbe il botto..Io non l'ho preso
> 
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> orologi.forumfree.it
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> Bulova Oceanographer "Snorkel"
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> 
> Buongiorno a tutti..Dopo tanto, rieccomi a presentare un orologio, nel caso specifico il mio ultimo acquisto.Bulova Oceanographic “Snorkel”...Se c’è
> 
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> orologi.forumfree.it
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> I also add a picture I´ve taken two months ago with the old and new Oceanographer:
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> 
> As you can see the newer model is almost a perfect reissue of the original from the 70s (besides the all red bezel), the proportions of the dials are so much better and even the discussed logo appears to be improved and more alive the original below:


Nice

Looks like Bulova is finally getting their reissues right.

This thing has some serious old school cool.

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## cuthbert

Yes the dimensions are very close to the original: bezel diameter 41, width including crown 44, case height 44 while the effective lug to to lug is 47 due to the male endlinks. The thickness I measured about 14.4 mm, lug width 19, bracelet slightly tapers to 18 but the buckle is unfortunately wider at 19mm again. Finally the crown has a real vintage diameter of 5.8mm and might be difficult to operate if you are not familiar with vintage watches.

According to the Italian owner of this 1969 piece:









Nuovi Bulova devil diver 41mm - page 7


Scusate ma quanto misura la cassa dell'originale ? Ciao e grazie CITAZIONE (sabbate @ 30/5/2020, 10:43) Scusate ma quanto misura la cassa dell'originale ? Ciao e grazie.se intendi quello degli anni '70




orologi.forumfree.it





The reissue is about 0.6mm thicker, all the other dimensions look spot on.

For info, the original movement was the 11BLACD, 5.9mm thick, while the Miyota is 5.67mm.


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## doggbiter

Love the retro vibe and the correct size. Don't love the price for the specs. There are plenty of comparably cool watches with better specs listing at lower retail than this. It's definitely a positive sign that Bulova has finally started making watches that aren't dinner plate sized.


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## Mr.Jones82

cuthbert said:


> Ok i did it.
> 
> After tough search I found a retailer available to make me a honest offer for this new 41mm Oceanographer, now it's on my wrist. From an aesthetical point of view I am pleased, now I need few days to test it and perhaps I will write a review.
> View attachment 15387136


Love it! Look forward to your thoughts on it.


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## cuthbert

doggbiter said:


> Love the retro vibe and the correct size. Don't love the price for the specs. There are plenty of comparably cool watches with better specs listing at lower retail than this. It's definitely a positive sign that Bulova has finally started making watches that aren't dinner plate sized.


I disagree with this statement, not many watches on the market have the "presence" of the Devil's diver in this price range, the Turtle is one but it's bigger. You can upmarket with a 65 or a Doxa buy they are significantly pricey.


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## Mmpaste

Ooh, guess I need to check in here more often. I’m always a beer away from finding the green reissue and making it mine. But I’ve a relatively large turtle for my wrist already and I’ve sworn off larger watches lately for those that measure <40mm. Now I’ll have to wait and see if Bulova puts that fantastic green dial into this smaller model.


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## cuthbert

Mr.Jones82 said:


> Love it! Look forward to your thoughts on it.


Ok I will...at the moment I am checkign the accuracy in different positions, so it might take a while. Today I am definitely going to take it in the gym.


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## cuthbert

Already posted in the Doxa forum.


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## muchacho_

cuthbert said:


> Already posted in the Doxa forum.


How those two compare in your opinion? I have the new 41mm Devil Diver and I absolutely love it but I also consider getting my first Doxa, either 300T or the 300 which has been just announced.


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## cuthbert

The Doxa Sub300 I have is the original that came out in 2016 for the 50th anniversary of the model, it was priced at 2000 euros do four times the Bulova, for obvious reasons: the case finish is superior, with brushed and polished surfaces, the crystal doesn't have the bluish tint of the cheaper sapphire used on the Devil diver, the movement of the Doxa Is a COSC certified ETA, while on the Bulova they used the cheapest Miyota available.

Interesting the bracelets are somewhat similar, very comfortable with stamped clasp...a more direct comparison could be done between the standard 300T and the Devil diver LE that were priced with the same difference of their precedessors, that sold for 170 dollars and 100 respectively in 1972.


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## muchacho_

Yeah, makes sense. I expected the bracelet on Bulova to be crappy tbh but it's surprisingly well made. It's really comfy and flexible but it doesnt feel cheap (unlike Seiko jubilee for example)


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## cuthbert

muchacho_ said:


> Yeah, makes sense. I expected the bracelet on Bulova to be crappy tbh but it's surprisingly well made. It's really comfy and flexible but it doesnt feel cheap (unlike Seiko jubilee for example)


The bracelet is a great copy of the original JB Champion "bullet", a sort of cross between a president and a jubilee and close to the so called "fishbone" bracelets Seiko used in the 70s, each link is made of five different pieces..clasp could be better tough, but the one on the Doxa Is also stamped steel, this doesn't bother me in a vintage inspired watch but I wish it remained 18mm like the links.

I am starting to think watchmakers of the past were right, I find today's super heavy and straight bracelets with thick machined clasps extremely uncomfortable to wear especially when it's hot and sticky. I would rate bracelet and dial the best parts of the little devil diver, the case OK (a little too polished for my taste) and the movement the worst of the watch, not on pair with the rest of this Bulova.


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## muchacho_

A quick pic to keep the thread going


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## tayloreuph

What’s the lug width? I’m wondering if that bracelet would fit the LE, or even my vintage Oceanographer V? Vintage bracelets like that are hard to come by, and the proper end links are even more scarce


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## muchacho_

tayloreuph said:


> What's the lug width? I'm wondering if that bracelet would fit the LE, or even my vintage Oceanographer V? Vintage bracelets like that are hard to come by, and the proper end links are even more scarce
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


19 mm


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## cuthbert

tayloreuph said:


> What's the lug width? I'm wondering if that bracelet would fit the LE, or even my vintage Oceanographer V? Vintage bracelets like that are hard to come by, and the proper end links are even more scarce
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think so, and it's very comfortable.


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## muchacho_




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## Stu47

muchacho_ said:


> How those two compare in your opinion? I have the new 41mm Devil Diver and I absolutely love it but I also consider getting my first Doxa, either 300T or the 300 which has been just announced.


I love that case on the Doxa and the way the crown is recessed/tucked up. I wish Bulova would offer a model with backset stem like the 214. I love how my 214s have no stem on the side at all so you get a perfectly round case. And that Doxa bracelet...I love the BOR bracelet. Outstanding!


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## TraserH3

41mm is perfect as this will wear small due to the tonneau case shape and also crystal design. Now where can I find one in the US?!


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## TaxMan

127.72 MHz said:


> Bulova is getting close but they're not quite there,...


You nailed it, but it's less of a journey and more of a mission statement


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## BigBluefish

Any updates as to when / where / if this 41mm version will be available in the US market?


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## CamelJockey

I love that red bezel Oceanographer! That is definitely my type of watch. I was planning to buy an oceanographer a while ago but when I saw it in person I was so turned off by the logo. Is there a particular reason why they have the letters connected that way? It just makes it look so cheap.


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## tayloreuph

CamelJockey said:


> I love that red bezel Oceanographer! That is definitely my type of watch. I was planning to buy an oceanographer a while ago but when I saw it in person I was so turned off by the logo. Is there a particular reason why they have the letters connected that way? It just makes it look so cheap.


It's identical to the original.

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## Triton9

Stu47 said:


> I wish they offered it in quartz. I know that is heresy for many, but Bulova has a history with battery powered watches (ie 214). I know the 214 uses a tuning fork and is not quartz. Nothing like opening up your watch box and seeing your 214s all ready to be worn and all showing the correct time even after sitting for 6 days since they last entered the rotation. I don't understand the aversion/resistance to quartz watches. Everyone wants an automatic and you are lucky to get one that lasts 60 hours.


Agree with you but not any ordinary miyota quartz but bulova accutron II 262Hz quartz movement with super smooth gliding second hand, beating at 16bps.

This combo will be perfect. Beating any pure mechanical watch for the second hand sweep.


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## tayloreuph

Triton9 said:


> Agree with you but not any ordinary miyota quartz but bulova accutron II 262Hz quartz movement with super smooth gliding second hand, beating at 16bps.
> 
> This combo will be perfect. Beating any pure mechanical watch for the second hand sweep.


Would the same 262Hz movement fit in the 44mm Devil Diver case? I don't think I'll fit in the smaller 41mm

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## Triton9

tayloreuph said:


> Would the same 262Hz movement fit in the 44mm Devil Diver case? I don't think I'll fit in the smaller 41mm
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why do u think it will not fit?



bulova 262 khz movement watch 40mm - Google Search


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## tayloreuph

Triton9 said:


> Why do u think it will not fit?
> 
> 
> 
> bulova 262 khz movement watch 40mm - Google Search


Because I don't know the interior dimensions of the cases in question, nor the depth. As most 262Hz movements are cases in larger housings, that's the reasoning for my question. As watches have been trending smaller than 44mm recently, why wouldn't Bulova start putting their movement into smaller cases? I don't recall a 36-38mm ladies watch with the same movement, which leads me to believe that the movement is too large for a smaller case.

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## buildrepair7

Anyone have a good retailer besides full price on ebay?


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## Stu47

I agree that Bulova should find a way to shrink the 262 and build on their heritage of electric/battery powered watches. Mechanical watches with 40 hours of power and the need for service and average accuracy just don't do much for me. My black Accutron 2 Lobster is my go-to for every day and travel and I love it.


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## Jiayaw

For those who don't know, they actually also have one in orange at 41mm. I would've love the blue orange in this size but after comparing both this and blue orange at a local store, I think I prefer the color combo on the blue orange, and despite the larger size, it still wears small


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## tayloreuph

There’s the LE which is also smaller than 44, (possibly 41, I’ve never measured mine) and two there which don’t seem to be available domestically; a red bezel, black dial and black bezel, black dial variants. 


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## AceRimmer

Triton9 said:


> Agree with you but not any ordinary miyota quartz but bulova accutron II 262Hz quartz movement with super smooth gliding second hand, beating at 16bps.
> 
> This combo will be perfect. Beating any pure mechanical watch for the second hand sweep.


THIS.


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## mi6_

I'm thinking about picking up one of these new 41mm Oceanogrpher Devil Divers. Just wish they had a better movement than the Miyota 821. Did anyone find one that has the updated version with hacking? Lack of hacking is usually a deal breaker for me, but I love the look/design of this watch to let it get a pass in this case.

Canada and North America (USA) appear to only get the orange variant on the black rubber strap (model #96B350). Europe has two bracelet models; a red bezel/black dial (model 96B343) and an all black (model 96B344); both of which come on a stainless steel bracelet

I emailed Bulova Canada (Citizen) to see if the bracelet versions were coming to North America and whether the bracelet would fit the orange rubber strap version. Their answer was "no" to both questions unfortunately. While the bracelet has a cheap stamped clasp the solid links and end links look decent, so I'd kind of prefer to get it with the bracelet. Usually don't like orange dials, but this one looks amazing.


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## Mamaw

Maybe an useful information for potential buyers.
Nothings wrong with the bracelet, it is in fact very confortable, but I wanted to put a rubber strap on it and this is unfortunately not going to happen.
There is almost no gap between the spring bar and the case, even a thin nato will not fit.


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## mi6_

I looked at photos of both the orange dial 41mm and the 41mm bracelet versions sold in Europe. The spring bars appear to be in identical position, however, I’ll have to wait until someone tries to swap the bracelet and rubber strap between the models. No way to know for sure without physically trying the swap. Sounded like Bulova didn’t really know and was airing in the side of caution as to whether the bracelet would fit the rubber strap models or not.


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## Mamaw

I agree and the fact that this is not a standard strap but some sort of “integrated” rubber strap let me believe the case and spring bar holes are identical.


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## Acidstain

Mamaw said:


> Maybe an useful information for potential buyers.
> Nothings wrong with the bracelet, it is in fact very confortable, but I wanted to put a rubber strap on it and this is unfortunately not going to happen.
> There is almost no gap between the spring bar and the case, even a thin nato will not fit.


I know some people would not prefer to, but try a thinner spring bar. Or a curved one.

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## MDT IT

Oh yes , now top is orange


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## mi6_

So I broke down and ordered the 41mm orange Bulova Oceanographer (96B350) from a Canadian dealer (Anne Louise) that had it on sale for 30% off ($581.75 CAD). Still a bit pricey I feel given the basic movement but I love the design, I don't have an orange dial diver (or a Bulova) and I have a watch addiction problem, so here we are&#8230;.

I contacted the Citizen Canada Service Center to enquire about ordering the stainless steel bracelets from one of the 41mm models sold in Europe (models 96B343 and 96B344). The *bracelet part number is #8771167* and they want $110 CAD plus tax/shipping. I'm going to take the plunge and order one. Looking at the photos below of the rubber strap and stainless steel versions, it appears as though the springbars sit at the exact same position. I'll report back on whether it actually fits in a few months time when I have both the watch and bracelet in-hand.


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## tayloreuph

I’m truly curious if that will work. 


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## mi6_

tayloreuph said:


> I'm truly curious if that will work.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So do I after a $130+ CAD investment..


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## mi6_

Ok everyone. I finally got the Bulova Stainless Steel bracelet from Citizen Canada Service Center yesterday (for those who don't know, Citizen owns Bulova). I think it was about a 2 month wait to get it. When I ordered it I asked for a set of springbars as well, however, I was told it came with springbars and there was no need to order them. Unfortunately it was only the bracelet with no springbars included. I've contacted the Citizen Canada Service Centre who are going to ship me a pair of springbars for free. In total the bracelet, from the 41mm models 96B343 and 96B344, cost me $110 CAD, plus taxes and $15 shipping. Not a bad deal.



















So then I got to work to try this thing on. I easily removed the stock rubber strap (which is actually quite nice and comfortable). Then I fit the bracelet. It fits fairly snuggly with only a little bit play (more on that later). It doesn't sit entirely flush with the lugs though, so I'm wondering if either: 1) the springbars are fatter on the bracelet models or #2) the lug holes are drilled in slightly different positions between the silicone strap and stainless steel models. There are quite big holes drilled through the end links so I'm hoping the new (hopefully fatter) pair of springbars Citizen is sending me will work. I'll report back in the fall on that issue.




























So far all was good. But then I decided I'd try size this thing&#8230;l I'll preface this by saying I've been seriously collecting watches for a bit over 5 years. I'm up to 20 pieces and have sized Strapcode screw-pin link bracelets, Citizen and Seiko pin and collar bracelets (with both inner and outer collars like on the Monster) as well as standard friction pins (which is what this Bulova bracelet uses). I've probably re-sized about a dozen bracelets at this point with little to no difficulty; the most difficult so far being the Seiko Monster which has a collar on the outside of the link. But that was quite simple compared to what I experienced on my first Bulova bracelet. I also have a pin pusher tool, bracelet block and hammer and pins in addition to high end Bergeron springbar tools. I've never sized a bracelet as difficult as this one&#8230;.










Some of the split pins were so tight that I simply couldn't remove them. I quickly snapped all 3 remaining pin pusher heads. There were at least 3 links I tried that no matter what, wouldn't hammer out. After 2 hours of struggling I finally sized it for my 6.5" wrist with 3 links removed from each side of the bracelet. At one point I didn't think I'd be able to get it sized and ordered a set of push pin pliers from Amazon.ca. I didn't try it, but I also contemplated using a lighter or torch on the bracelet to see if it would loosen the friction pins.

As you can see from the above photo the links are actually compromised of 5 pieces across each link held by a hidden friction pin and the "supposedly" removable split pins. The links where I couldn't get the split pin out started falling apart from being hammered on repeatedly. That's how tight they were, and in case you're wondering, yes I pushed them out in the same direction as the arrows (I.e. I didn't do it wrong). In hindsight I'd happily have paid a watchmaker to size this for me given what a frustrating experience it was.



















I wish the fit with the end links was a bit better (flush with no wobble) but I'm hoping the springbars Citizen is sending me will resolve this issue. It fits tightly to the case with a little bit of play which I'm hoping is due to the thinner springbars. The bracelet looks pretty good (vintage vibes) and is quite comfortable. My only complaint would be the cheap stamped clasp and dive extension but it's a minor gripe and wouldn't affect either the durability or comfort while wearing the bracelet.

I put it back in the silicone strap for now. This watch works well on the black silicone strap given the bright fluorescent orange dial and vacation/summer vibe of this watch. The stock strap is really nice with faux stitching (possibly real?) down the outside edge and a nice texturized pattern on both sides for breathability. I should mention that I doubt the stock silicone strap would fit a wrist under 6.25". You'd have to punch a new hole if your wrist was any smaller than 6.25" or so. The stainless steel bracelet looks great and adds to the vintage vibe and definitely could be sized down to a 6" or possibly smaller wrist.

I'd caution anyone trying to size this bracelet themselves to be very experienced and competent sizing bracelets in addition to have some pro-level tools. Otherwise you're best off spending the money to take it to a trusted watchmaker. I don't think sizing any bracelet I've done in the past took more than 30 minutes tops, but this was 2 hours of frustration, so be warned! Not sure if this is a typical Bulova experience or not. Their watches are usually too big for me (Lunar Pilot) and this was the only one I've really been interested in owning the last few years (except if/when the Lunar Pilot is released in a smaller size).


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## tayloreuph

This is the LE from the first run. Different bracelet configuration. I didn't have to size it, so I can't commiserate with your dilemma. I wonder if they're comparable though? I've never had it off the watch, so the spring bar thickness is an unknown quantity. But I do have a A15 reissue with has the fattest PVD black colored spring bars I've ever seen!

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## Stu47

Mamaw said:


> Maybe an useful information for potential buyers.
> Nothings wrong with the bracelet, it is in fact very confortable, but I wanted to put a rubber strap on it and this is unfortunately not going to happen.
> There is almost no gap between the spring bar and the case, even a thin nato will not fit.


They do make curved spring-bars. Just a thought.


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## mi6_

Quick update on trying to fit the bracelet to the orange 41mm Devil Diver. So I got the springbars from the Citizen Service centre. Unfortunately they seem to be the exact same diameter and don’t make the bracelet fit any better. So unless you’re ok with the end links not being flush, I’d probably just order the black or black/red model if you absolutely need the bracelet. The bracelet is still secure though, so it could definitely be worn like that. I’d presume that the lug holes are indeed drilled in slightly different locations between the rubber strap and bracelet models.


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## tayloreuph

That’s what they do on the Lunar Pilot between the bracelet and the strap versions. Which doesn’t really make sense, but #bulova
I’d be curious about the LE bracelet and how it might fit. But not curious enough to buy one…


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