# Bulova 262 kHz



## wiwatm (Feb 7, 2019)

Hi, I'm just aquire the Bulova Moonwatch with 262 kHz movement. I don't know much about quartz watches. I guess this one fits into this forum. It is beautiful watch. 
Cheers.









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## carbon_dragon (Jul 28, 2019)

I think that is the 2nd generation version. This one is the first generation with the date at 4 o'clock. For the first gen, there is a bracelet version and one that comes on a sort of carbon fiber looking leather band with a NATO'ish 2 piece strap as a secondary. Here this is the NATO like velcro 2 piece strap. I like it much better than the leather. Nice watch. Mine has always been very accurate. I've heard one reviewer claim it's thermo compensated by design but I'm not sure if that is true. My wrist is about 6.75".


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## wiwatm (Feb 7, 2019)

Right, mine is the second gen. I thought about getting the SS version then this one came up at good price in my area so I grab it. I really like the black case though.

I also like the Bulova font on this one because it looks like the original.









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## wiwatm (Feb 7, 2019)

It's not Thermo compensating. (Not that I know what's it mean.) See the Bulova adds here.

It's say: "Most quartz watches are accurate to 15 seconds a month - Bulova Precisionist is accurate to 10 seconds a year.
The key is Precisionist's unique three-prong quartz crystal, which produces a vibration frequency of 262.144 kilohertz (kHz), eight times greater than the usual two-prong crystal and the highest of any watch available today. And, the innovative design of the Precisionist movement reduces the effects of temperature variation without using a high maintenance thermo-regulating integrated circuit.
The result is a watch that is extraordinarily precise, yet so easy to operate."

Credit: https://calibercorner.com/bulova-caliber-p102/









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## Tom-HK (Jan 6, 2015)

Opinion is divided. I have one, I must admit. In fact, I have had a couple. Mine have never met spec and I tend not to count them when I think of my HAQs. They are, however, designed to be more accurate than standard, 32 kHz quartz watches and despite their lack of thermocompensation and reliable 10 SPY performance, a fair number of people, here, do consider these watches to be HAQ. Try searching the forum; you will find a lot of threads about Bulova's 262 kHz offerings.


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## signum8 (May 3, 2018)

The 2017 Bulova Grammy silicone strap 47mm model is going for $170 on Amazon. It's a 262 kHz Precisonist, but I noticed it gained a second since I set it 3 weeks ago, so I guess we are not talking 10 spy territory. I always wonder if the factory can adjust that or is it pretty much fixed?

The less expensive Bulova Precisionist - 96B257 is holding to the second in about that period. A bargain and my first HAQ.


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## carbon_dragon (Jul 28, 2019)

wiwatm said:


> It's not Thermo compensating. (Not that I know what's it mean.) See the Bulova adds here.
> 
> It's say: "Most quartz watches are accurate to 15 seconds a month - Bulova Precisionist is accurate to 10 seconds a year.
> The key is Precisionist's unique three-prong quartz crystal, which produces a vibration frequency of 262.144 kilohertz (kHz), eight times greater than the usual two-prong crystal and the highest of any watch available today. And, the innovative design of the Precisionist movement reduces the effects of temperature variation without using a high maintenance thermo-regulating integrated circuit.
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head here. If you look here, you essentially see the same thing:
https://calibercorner.com/bulova-caliber-p102/

Now all they are claiming is that by increasing the frequency, there is less opportunity to be affected by temperature, so it's less sensitive to temperature in a passive (not active) way. In effect, they are claiming to reduce the thermo sensitivity in a different way than other movements do (perhaps not as effectively, I don't know). Frankly unless you live in Antarctica or Death Valley, I wonder how much it matters. My own watches are either on my wrist (honestly not very much as I have too many watches) or sitting in my winder at 67-70 degrees year round. Obviously if I'm wearing it, it is probably 97.6 degrees (yes I'm cold). And then does the frequency of 262Khz really reduce this already slight timing difference? I'll leave that to the specialists.

I guess it's still better than my Dad's Accutron from 1968.


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## Fergfour (Jan 4, 2013)

carbon_dragon said:


> I guess it's still better than my Dad's Accutron from 1968.


Higher frequency in the tuning fork model but not as accurate. I find the original way more interesting though.


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## argonaute2 (Nov 3, 2015)

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## carbon_dragon (Jul 28, 2019)

Fergfour said:


> Higher frequency in the tuning fork model but not as accurate. I find the original way more interesting though.


This particular one is inscribed by my Mom for my Dad and was given to him because he was a B-52 Navigator in the Air Force (and thus an accurate watch was very useful). I got it in pieces from my Dad's estate. Glad it works again. Love that HUMMMMMMMM..... that the old Accutrons had.


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

Tom-HK said:


> Opinion is divided. I have one, I must admit. In fact, I have had a couple. Mine have never met spec and I tend not to count them when I think of my HAQs. They are, however, designed to be more accurate than standard, 32 kHz quartz watches and despite their lack of thermocompensation and reliable 10 SPY performance, a fair number of people, here, do consider these watches to be HAQ. Try searching the forum; you will find a lot of threads about Bulova's 262 kHz offerings.


Your experience is the opposite of mine (divided opinion  ). My four 262kHz Bulovas meet or surpass the two Certinas (with Precidrive) I own in terms of accuracy. I for one consider the Bulova 262kHz movement family to be HAQ if the Precidrive is considered as such. The Precidrive doesn't meet 10 sec/yr either, the Certinas I have with that movement are more like ~ +20 sec/yr (one is 16-18 sec/yr, the other is 26 sec/yr). At least Bulova is honest in their latest marketing, claiming 5 sec/yr whereas Certina sticks with a claim of 10 sec/yr which they cannot consistently meet.


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## carbon_dragon (Jul 28, 2019)

It can be tough to check on yearly errors when you have to shift on and off daylight savings time (in the US at least).

I have a rather cheap quartz that I recently put a battery back in and it turns out that that watch gained 2 seconds in the 1 day I wore it! Now for mechanical watches that is great, but for quartz, I expect it's terrible! I think we can agree though that the Precisionist movement is a pretty darn good (and reasonably priced) movement. This watch could, I suppose coin the term LAQ (low accuracy quartz)!






:-d


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## wbird (Feb 25, 2015)

Actually DST gives me a reason to check my watch accuracy twice a year. Easy to remember or look up the dates I set it and check it.

Opinion has mostly been positive on accuracy for these movements for quite a few years.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

DST/EST is not relevant for watches I don't wear,in terms of checking yearly offset.


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## signum8 (May 3, 2018)

A 32khz quartz watch is designed to keep time within 15 sec a month, but can go down to a second. 
I just got a $34 Casio DW-290 and since setting it, it has not gained or lost a second in 18 days.

This article is an excellent one page read on quartz/mechanical accuracy: Chronocentric: Accuracy of Fine Wristwatches

Still love my 262s though. My 300m wr Grammy Bulova arrived today. 

Gene


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/methods-determining-accuracy-watch-382752.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/thermocompensation-methods-movements-2087.html


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## 432 (Jun 29, 2018)

carbon_dragon said:


> I think that is the 2nd generation version. This one is the first generation with the date at 4 o'clock. For the first gen, there is a bracelet version and one that comes on a sort of carbon fiber looking leather band with a NATO'ish 2 piece strap as a secondary. Here this is the NATO like velcro 2 piece strap. I like it much better than the leather. Nice watch. Mine has always been very accurate. I've heard one reviewer claim it's thermo compensated by design but I'm not sure if that is true. My wrist is about 6.75".


I sold my black one a few days after I bought it. Probably gonna get rid of my other two silver ones soon. This watch had a lot of potential, but it's just too big, in my view.


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## carbon_dragon (Jul 28, 2019)

432 said:


> I sold my black one a few days after I bought it. Probably gonna get rid of my other two silver ones soon. This watch had a lot of potential, but it's just too big, in my view.


I'm a fan of big watches myself. And my wrist is only about 6 3/4". Also my eyes aren't what they once were, so big watches means I can read the dial a bit easier. But this is a personal choice and nobody can make it for you. You're the boss of what you like and what is the right size.


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## obomomomo (Nov 4, 2014)

Mine (gen 2, polished steel, no-date) has gained about 3.5 seconds since I first got and set it to atomic time mid June, so it's well within spec for 10spy. A great looking watch, well made and truly fabulous for what it cost but I do agree it's too big at least for my 6.75 wrists which makes me rarely wear it


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## carbon_dragon (Jul 28, 2019)

obomomomo said:


> Mine (gen 2, polished steel, no-date) has gained about 3.5 seconds since I first got and set it to atomic time mid June, so it's well within spec for 10spy. A great looking watch, well made and truly fabulous for what it cost but I do agree it's too big at least for my 6.75 wrists which makes me rarely wear it


The picture of my watch is shown on the same sized wrist, about 6.75" (see the picture above in an earlier post). I'm OK with the look myself. Especially on the NATO'ish velcro strap. Nobody ever comments on my watches anyway. I did have someone tell me my 43" diver type was shiny and they thought I'd be wearing an Apple watch (not sure if I should be insulted or complimented there). It's probably because I have a lot of Apple stuff.


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## signum8 (May 3, 2018)

I wonder why a watch with a Grammy theme would be rated 300m wr?


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## 3-1-1 (May 15, 2018)

I wonder why there is a watch with a Grammy theme.


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

3-1-1 said:


> I wonder why there is a watch with a Grammy theme.


Probably Bulova contracted with the Grammy organization to have this model Bulova watch included in the celebrity "Swag Bag" given away to attendees at the awards ceremony. Bulova probably decided to make more than they needed (economies of scale) and make the overrun available to the general public.

HTH


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## JimSclavunos (Nov 18, 2018)

Sold mine a while back, it's certainly a good-looking watch but just a bit too big for my taste.


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## gusrub (Jun 19, 2018)

I'm not sure about the _Precisionist _but the picture posted of the caliber corner specs, the P102 is not the same as the one in the Bulova Lunar Pilot, I understand that the caliber for that piece (which I own) is the 8136:









I did not open my watch but I was curious as well and I searched for more info, and found that picture on a german forum. There is even a video (bad quality) on Youtube of a guy that opened the caseback. I'd provide the links but my post count seems to be mediocre to do that as of now.

Some things noticeable different from the P102:

- Larger movement size, in fact, I read somewhere here in WUS that the size is actually around 40mm and that is why the size of this piece (and all other which use this same caliber) is so big; you need some clearance to fit it.
- 8136 has no jewels whereas the other has 8
- Different battery, the CR2016 (larger) from the P102 while the 8136 uses a SR927SW

I tried the original reference of the lunar pilot but for some reason it just did not stick with me. Some time later I've found a different ref, the "*96A225*" which has a polished case, the original 70's Bulova logo, no date, and comes with a nato style strap that is honestly better looking than the "faux-kevlar" on the other reference and ordered without being able to try it on, worrying that I might not like it but man, I loved it. I think its a keeper. I also think that this other strap on this reference makes it wear smaller than the original one but on the other hand, it honestly looks bigger in pictures over the Internet than it really looks in person and feels. Overall a great piece with a cool story.

Here's a picture of mine, for reference:


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## Mike Rivera (Feb 21, 2006)

Just picked this up.


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## Madstacks (Nov 11, 2018)

That polished lunar pilot is sweet!


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## Greyknight (Feb 7, 2019)

Looks like a solid alternative to the speedy for those who can't or won't drop that kind of money, nice watch all around


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## Mike Rivera (Feb 21, 2006)

At the office ...


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## Mike Rivera (Feb 21, 2006)

Greyknight said:


> Looks like a solid alternative to the speedy for those who can't or won't drop that kind of money, nice watch all around


It's not even about the money. I sold my Speedy about 6 months ago after owning it for about 6 years. I just got tired of always having to wind and set it everytime before grabbing a cool chrono for the day. If the crown was larger it would have been a lot easier to wind and set. I know, "1st World Problems" ... b-)

I love my Bulova Moon Watch and don't miss the Speedy at all ... The leftover money will just buy more fun watches :-!


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

Mike, about your (now departed) Speedy being hard to wind:

I own a Speedy too and mine also was stiff to wind since day one. I took it in a few weeks ago to a local watchmaker to have it regulated and I mentioned to him while he was winding it that it's a PITA to me to wind it. He just said 'I can fix that, give me a moment'.

When he gave it back to me after regulation it was vastly easier to wind. My guess is he put a spot of silicone grease on the stem, it's never been this easy to wind (mine is 5 yrs. old). I sure wish Omega did this at the factory, it took the gent maybe a couple of minutes to correct.


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## Mike Rivera (Feb 21, 2006)

tmathes said:


> Mike, about your (now departed) Speedy being hard to wind:
> 
> I own a Speedy too and mine also was stiff to wind since day one. I took it in a few weeks ago to a local watchmaker to have it regulated and I mentioned to him while he was winding it that it's a PITA to me to wind it. He just said 'I can fix that, give me a moment'.
> 
> When he gave it back to me after regulation it was vastly easier to wind. My guess is he put a spot of silicone grease on the stem, it's never been this easy to wind (mine is 5 yrs. old). I sure wish Omega did this at the factory, it took the gent maybe a couple of minutes to correct.


Good info tmathes. Mine wasn't hard to wind from a "sticky" standpoint, it was just with the small crown so close to the case and between the pushers, it was tough with my fat fingers. No so much difficult, but inconvenient compared to other watches.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

Speedys are really off topic.


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

signum8 said:


> I wonder why a watch with a Grammy theme would be rated 300m wr?


OK - likely a zombie thread . . . but I couldn't resist a reply.

It's in the unlikely event that it's accidentally dropped into a glass of champagne during the raucous festivities with people tossing their swag about - or perhaps falling or spontaneously leaping into a pool with it during one of the raucous after parties.

John


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

gusrub said:


> I'm not sure about the _Precisionist _but the picture posted of the caliber corner specs, the P102 is not the same as the one in the Bulova Lunar Pilot, I understand that the caliber for that piece (which I own) is the 8136:
> 
> View attachment 14755391
> 
> ...


The P102.xx is a 3-hand movement with sweep seconds hand. It's not a chronograph movement. Used in the Precisionist, Accutron II and UHF (non-chrono). That's why these chronographs have a different movement in them. The 8136 is used in the flat chronographs, and a different 8137 is used in their 262 kHz CURV chronographs. What surprised me was the 8136 having no jewels, while the P102 has eight and the 8137 has eleven. Those, AFAIK, are the three Bulova "Precisionist" movements. Do a search on Caliber Corner for "Precisionist" and you'll come up with all three calibers with photos of them. The three-prong torsional crystal is less affected by temperature compared to the traditional crystal cuts used in standard 32 kHz movements. Skin temperature is ~ 94 F. They're designed for 12-16 hours per day 5-7 days per week, at about that temperature. If not worn much, they will tend to run a tad fast as they're sitting 20 F cooler all the time. I don't have any of the chronos. I do have three with a P102.12 inside. All of them are about 10-15 sec/year when worn 5-7 days per week. They gain very slightly if not.

Caliber Corner Precisionist movements

John


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## Stu47 (Jun 22, 2020)

love mine.


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## gusrub (Jun 19, 2018)

jlind said:


> The P102.xx is a 3-hand movement with sweep seconds hand. It's not a chronograph movement. Used in the Precisionist, Accutron II and UHF (non-chrono). That's why these chronographs have a different movement in them. The 8136 is used in the flat chronographs, and a different 8137 is used in their 262 kHz CURV chronographs. What surprised me was the 8136 having no jewels, while the P102 has eight and the 8137 has eleven. Those, AFAIK, are the three Bulova "Precisionist" movements. Do a search on Caliber Corner for "Precisionist" and you'll come up with all three calibers with photos of them. The three-prong torsional crystal is less affected by temperature compared to the traditional crystal cuts used in standard 32 kHz movements. Skin temperature is ~ 94 F. They're designed for 12-16 hours per day 5-7 days per week, at about that temperature. If not worn much, they will tend to run a tad fast as they're sitting 20 F cooler all the time. I don't have any of the chronos. I do have three with a P102.12 inside. All of them are about 10-15 sec/year when worn 5-7 days per week. They gain very slightly if not.
> 
> Caliber Corner Precisionist movements
> 
> John


Great info, thanks!


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## Newnice (Apr 7, 2019)

I love all those 262 kHz movements for their incredible sweep, just lovely to look at, in addition to the accuracy of course. As long as I have to deal with DST twice a year I will always lose time when doing that adjustment, so I'll never be able to measure 10spy anyway. 

Their watch designs don't speak to me though, too big and often more flashy than I like. I wish they would make the movements available to microbrands like they do with Miyota so we could see some more variety. It's a killer movement in my opinion and one of the few quartz movements I would take over a mechanical.


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

*Update to Precisionist movements from my earlier posting . . .*

To date there have been five Precisionist movements. The one in the thread starter, the Apollo 15 Lunar Pilot, is a zero jewel *8136* 3-eye chronograph. It's a direct derivative of the Miyota 6S20 32kHz 3-eye chrono which you can buy from Esslinger for $30. The 32kHz version is found in $130-$150 Citizen and Bulova chronographs that operate exactly like the Lunar Pilot, albeit with a slower quartz clock inside. Not to be outdone when Scott auctioned his original Bulova for over ~$1.6M, it's apparent Bulova had Miyota amp up the 6S20 - the closest looking movement to it in the quartz chrono portfolio - by 8X with the 3-tine crystal and reprogramming the IC. Bob's your Uncle and you've got a 3-eye with all the eyes in the correct visual locations at the 3, 6, and 9. However, the functions of those eyes have no relationship to Astronaut Dave Scott's original 1/5th second precision 12-hour mechanical chrono. Scott's was a 1/5th second precision (central seconds hand) with 30 minute and 12-hour totalizer registers, at the 3 and 6 respectively. The timekeeping seconds subdial was at the 9. The Precisionist Lunar Pilot reissue is a 1/20th second 1-hour. The register at the 3 displays the stopwatch 1/20th second. Register at the 9 is its 1-hour totalizer. At the 6 is the timekeeping seconds subdial.

Caliber Corner only has 3 Precisionist in their database, the 8-jewel *P102.1x* 3-hand with date (also used in the now defunct Accutron II models), the 0-jewel *8136* chrono just discussed, and the 11-jewel *8137* chrono made specifically for their CURV chronographs, IMHO the latter 8137 is a _"why bother with a chrono"_ as there's no central seconds and its chrono elapsed time precision is an appalling 1/2-second - using the seconds sub-dial. The two Precisionist movements missing from their database:

*P123:* A sixteen jewel 4-eye 1/1000th Sec. 12-hour chronograph with date powered by a 3V CR2016. Has central seconds with 16Hz smooth sweep just as the P102 in time keeping mode. 3rd pusher at the "8" toggles it between normal timekeeping mode and chrono mod. When switched into chrono mode, the central seconds moves quickly to the 12 and it's ready to begin use as a stopwatch operated by the two pushers at the 2 and 4. Register at the 12 has two hands to display 1/10th and 1/100th second. They stop moving after 30 seconds elapsed time to conserve battery energy until chrono is stopped. Register at the 3 is the 0-12 hour totalizer. Register at the 6 is the 1/1000th second flyback. It doesn't move until the chrono is stopped. This register plus the one at the 12 give you the fraction of a second to 1/1000th second precision. Register at the 9 is the 0-60 minute totalizer. The small square date window is wedged in between the 4 and 5 hour indices. The movement most notably has a metal cover over the CR2016 held down over it by a screw. Photo courtesy of a friend who took some pix when he changed the battery in his (IIRC a Wilton model).








The most commonly seen chrono now with this movement is the large, techno-style Champlain. There are others, such as a Wilton Chrono (no longer made), and I have one without a special model name made in 2017 that's more conservative in style:









*8138:* A six jewel 2-hand with seconds subdial (no date) women's size movement made for their Women's CURV watches. Like the 8136 and 8137, its powered by a 1.55V Silver Oxide SR927SW, aka 395 or 399. Photo of this movement was lifted from a dealer ad that showed its display back:








The front of this watch shows the hands, a Women's CURV 98R240:















Hope this helps with understanding more about the (currently) five 262kHz Precisionist movements.


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## TudorGMT20 (Jul 8, 2020)

gusrub said:


> I'm not sure about the _Precisionist _but the picture posted of the caliber corner specs, the P102 is not the same as the one in the Bulova Lunar Pilot, I understand that the caliber for that piece (which I own) is the 8136:
> 
> View attachment 14755391
> 
> ...


What is the difference between Bulova 8136 and NP20 (which is how Bulova recently, on their website advertised this movement)?


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

They are not HAQ. HEQ works Had a few and liked them.


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## Ti Man (Oct 17, 2020)

Should have my new LP by Monday...haven't been this hyped about a wristwatch since my Attesa!


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## Stu47 (Jun 22, 2020)

Keep us posted and post a pic (or it didn't happen  ). The Bulova 262 kHz is highly underrated and unknown to many. I wish Bulova used it more of their watches as it is more in line with their heritage of the 214 "electric" watches.


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## Ti Man (Oct 17, 2020)

Stu47 said:


> Keep us posted and post a pic (or it didn't happen  ). The Bulova 262 kHz is highly underrated and unknown to many. I wish Bulova used it more of their watches as it is more in line with their heritage of the 214 "electric" watches.


USPS dashboard shows it's gonna arrive early >>>> TODAY!


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## Ti Man (Oct 17, 2020)

Here it is!

Please allow me a line to tag some righteous dudes  who helped make the magic happen, thanks a lot for everything! 

@Racer88 , @SLazz , @snagglepants

The factory LP straps were fine, but I like the retro vibe the Revolution Tropic rally lends to the package, plus it's super comfy, thanks Lazz!

Nothing I dislike about the LP early on...however the spring bar holes were kinda orthodoxically placed.

What I love: the size <I have well developed forearms from farm work as a child/teen...THANKS DAD!> and this head doesn't want to flip over on my wrist even if I wear it loose, the legibility <As I've aged, I appreciate more & more two things: the readability of watch dials and healthy prostate function-- yes Racer88, I read your Bulova Sea King article, you glorious bastard!> 

I also am smitten with the top-hat like crystal, and the bead blast matte case finish.

Also pictured is my OUTSTANDING Marine Star...in Full *Titanium* ( doesn't surprise ya, does it?) 

I don't know if technically houses a HAQ movement-- but it's close enough for government work, haha!

Enjoy my modest pics & thanks again!!!


















































*Attesa photobomb!* since I've previously referenced it...if it can't be consider HAQ, then what is?


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## Racer88 (Jul 24, 2020)

Ti Man said:


> Here it is!
> 
> Please allow me a line to tag some righteous dudes  who helped make the magic happen, thanks a lot for everything!
> 
> ...


That Marine Star with the stacked chronograph subdials is cool! I hadn't seen that (stacked subdials) before. Very different and therefore cool!

Enjoy your Lunar Pilot in good health!


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## snagglepants (Apr 21, 2019)

Yes!!! The Lunar Pilot is such an amazing watch! That rally looks awesome!



Ti Man said:


> Here it is!
> 
> Please allow me a line to tag some righteous dudes  who helped make the magic happen, thanks a lot for everything!
> 
> ...


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