# Disappointing Accuracy of Grand Seiko SBGR055



## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

I bought a Grand Seiko SBGR055 in Jun 2015.

It was running accurately out of the box about +2sec per day. I was happy.

In the beginning of 2016, I noticed that it is gaining much more. It is running at +8sec per day.

Although Grand Seiko is not COSC certified, it had always pride itself to be at least within the specification.

+8sec per day on a Grand Seiko is not acceptable to me.

I visited the Seiko Service Center in Singapore. I thought it would be a simple adjustment and tuning and hence did not bring the warranty booklet. The Service Center checked my watch and told me that they do not "service" Grand Seiko and need send back to Japan. It will require my warranty booklet.

On my second visit, the Service center checked my watch again and told me that +8sec per day is within the +10sec per day of Grand Seiko specifications. This is out of COSC -4 / +6 sec per day.

I insisted that they send my watch back to Japan for adjustment (because the warranty is going to be over soon) even though I had to pay for Freight which is S$80+.

Now I have 2nd thoughts if I ever going to get another Grand Seiko.
The Service center reluctantly took in my watch since May 2016


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## bmfang (Feb 12, 2016)

The GS standard is for uncased movements. I believe that they state that once cased up, the movement should perform between -1/+10. I wonder whether your watch might have been lightly magnetised which could account for it speeding up.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

I thought the Service Center would have done a simple job to adjust or tune or de-magnetise it. But it's either I accept the watch or send it back to Japan. 

....so Japan it goes.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

It looks like +8 is within spec for 9S65. 

Is it common for people to send in watches just because warranty is coming to an end? I've seen this theme come up a fair number of times here.


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## no name no slogan (Nov 23, 2014)

Grand Seiko | SEIKO WATCH CORPORATION

"Accuracy: +5 to -3 seconds per day (under a static use) ; This accuracy is the result of measuring the loss/gain of the time for seventeen days before the inside movements of the watch are put in the case. The measurement has been done in the factory where temperatures or position of the movements are controlled. When the watch is actually worn, the accuracy should be from -1 second/day to +10 seconds/day (-1 second/day to +8 seconds/day for Cal.9S85, 9S86)."


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## Domo (Sep 20, 2013)

That sucks, it may be fast, but it has been properly regulated over the positions as per how they're made. Since the 9S has a fine adjuster, you can have it very easily fine tuned. Just take it to a watchmaker, give em a few dollars and they'll slow it down a bit for you. The rotor with that special nut doesn't need to come off, just the caseback. Its a very simple operation.


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## Emospence (Feb 18, 2014)

LOL! Experiencing this with my NOMOS but decided to live with it for now



no name no slogan said:


> Grand Seiko | SEIKO WATCH CORPORATION
> 
> "Accuracy: +5 to -3 seconds per day (under a static use) ; This accuracy is the result of measuring the loss/gain of the time for seventeen days before the inside movements of the watch are put in the case. The measurement has been done in the factory where temperatures or position of the movements are controlled. When the watch is actually worn, the accuracy should be from -1 second/day to +10 seconds/day (-1 second/day to +8 seconds/day for Cal.9S85, 9S86)."
> 
> View attachment 8526666


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## uncle234 (May 15, 2011)

skyWalker said:


> I bought a Grand Seiko SBGR055 in Jun 2015.
> 
> It was running accurately out of the box about +2sec per day. I was happy.
> 
> ...


If it is any consolation, my SBGR051 (same 9s65 movement) runs at about +10 secs a day out of box. I believe GS policy is that the watch is within specs as long as its within 10 secs a day.

I don't think this is an isolated case. Searching 9s65 accuracy on google seems to bring about several other complains on the Internet.

9S65 movement just isn't as accurately as most people would believe it to be.

On the other hand, I have a Hamilton Chronometer with a lowly ETA 7750 Valjoux movement that has been running approx at +2 secs/day for the past 6 years already.


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## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

This is alarming...normal GS should run within -3/+5s a day... having them run at +8-10s a day and for Seiko to say this is within +10s per day and so it's good is crazy. Makes all the marketing talk about how accurate GS are, how they are regulated to better than COSC specs just that "talk" 

In this very competitive watch industry, I think Seiko needs to up their game. If GS automatics are supposed run at -3/+5s, then they need to make sure it does even when the movement is cased. 

Especially now that Omega has their master coaxial METAS certification, Rolex with their better than COSC 2/+2s certification etc..Personally feel GS has lost some of it's edge.

Plus they need to have better after sales and support for GS If they want to push sales of those. You don't charge 3-18k SGD for a GS and provide such sorry ass service. Personally I think Thong Sia isn't equipped to handle the more expensive Seiko watches, they had to send my Tuna back to Japan for repair..ditto for my MM300, they couldn't even regulate the watch locally. 

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## uncle234 (May 15, 2011)

balzebub said:


> This is alarming...normal GS should run within -3/+5s a day... having them run at +8-10s a day and for Seiko to say this is within +10s per day and so it's good is crazy. Makes all the marketing talk about how accurate GS are, how they are regulated to better than COSC specs just that "talk"
> 
> In this very competitive watch industry, I think Seiko needs to up their game. If GS automatics are supposed run at -3/+5s, then they need to make sure it does even when the movement is cased.
> 
> ...


Yes, true. If I am not wrong, it is written in GS's little booklet that up to 10 secs a day is expected during normal use.

As for service and after sales support, GS uses the same service center and personal as those for ordinary Seiko watch. So don't expect Rolex/Omego level from Thongsia or any other Seiko distributors. I have personally experienced GS/Seiko's crappy service first hand in Seiko Jakarta, and it is extremely frustrating. I have posted a thread on my service experience in another thread in this forum, you may want to read about it.


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## seikomatic (Jul 6, 2006)

heard lot of stories and please try time.is


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

My take from this episode is : if Seiko wants to game with the Swiss Boys, he needs to up his ante.


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## KazeKei (Jan 11, 2012)

Ditto on the service on TongSia, look at my reply on the thread uncle234. we need GS level of service for paying GS prices. Or this will be what stopping me from getting more GS. 

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## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

KazeKei said:


> Ditto on the service on TongSia, look at my reply on the thread uncle234. we need GS level of service for paying GS prices. Or this will be what stopping me from getting more GS.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


Heh still I think my next watch purchase will be a quartz GS...

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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

Just found an interesting debate on this :
rolex v.s grand seiko - Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

uncle234 said:


> If
> I don't think this is an isolated case. Searching 9s65 accuracy on google seems to bring about several other complains on the Internet.
> 
> 9S65 movement just isn't as accurately as most people would believe it to be..


By using Google one can find as many reports of poorly regulated ETA watches.

You watch need to be demagnetized and regulated. That's all.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

balzebub said:


> This is alarming...normal GS should run within -3/+5s a dayk


One watch running +8 a day is now alarming?


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## vCardinal (Jul 21, 2015)

Buying a watch worth 3-4 grand, which harbours their more affordable movement that's only been around for 6 years, and then grabbing your pitchfork when it's +8/day sounds ridiculous to me. To avoid utter heartbreak in the future, try to make an effort and do some research on the brand and the movements it offers.

I mean, it's Seiko, if you're such a stickler for accuracy get a spring drive.


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

Emospence said:


> LOL! Experiencing this with my NOMOS but decided to live with it for now


From experience if a Nomos speeds up demagnetize it unless it is near the service time.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

> if you're such a stickler for accuracy get a spring drive.


Good suggestion.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

Yes, spring drive is accurate but it's a hybrid watch. It's not a "pure" mechanical. If the Swiss or even some Chinese movements can achieve COSC standard why not a Grand Seiko? I would expect more from a Grand Seiko than +8sec a day. 

I also think a simple regulation or de-magnetise should do the trick but the Service Center is not doing it! Even for a watch under warranty.....


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## vCardinal (Jul 21, 2015)

skyWalker said:


> Yes, spring drive is accurate but it's a hybrid watch. It's not a "pure" mechanical. If the Swiss or even some Chinese movements can achieve COSC standard why not a Grand Seiko? I would expect more from a Grand Seiko than +8sec a day.
> 
> I also think a simple regulation or de-magnetise should do the trick but the Service Center is not doing it! Even for a watch under warranty.....


By achieving COSC standards, those brands charge for a Chronometer watch, which usually finds itself at a much higher price bracket if it's packaged in Grand Seiko level finish.

It's not a question of Seiko _not _being able to put out a COSC watch, it's a question of them already having their hyper-accurate line available. If you're shopping for $4000, mechanical only and COSC certified, in my humble opinion, you're looking at the wrong brand. Even JLC, which features similar levels of finish, have this kind of variance in their non chronometer watches.

I get being sensitive with regards to timekeeping, although I don't subscribe to the idea as stringently as others here, but criticizing Seiko's GS line for being within an acceptable variance (again, my opinion) at that price bracket, and ignoring their other lines that do exactly what you're looking for, is a little ridiculous.

You don't get a Seiko if you're an unyielding purist. Their whole shtick is pairing affordability and performance while doing away with this whole Swiss brand mystique. SD's have the smoothest second hands on the market and have quartz level accuracy without a battery. Knocking SD for being a hybrid because it features a tri-synchro regulator (literally the only non "mechanical" element), and omitting it from the discussion on those grounds alone, does Seiko and you a great disservice.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

skyWalker said:


> Yes, spring drive is accurate but it's a hybrid watch. It's not a "pure" mechanical. If the Swiss or even some Chinese movements can achieve COSC standard why not a Grand Seiko? I would expect more from a Grand Seiko than +8sec a day.
> 
> I also think a simple regulation or de-magnetise should do the trick but the Service Center is not doing it! Even for a watch under warranty.....


COSC is -4/+6 which is about just as wide a band as -1/+10.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

...then Seiko should not advertise that their watch is -3 / +5 when in actual fact is -1 / +10.

Also for a watch, I would like its function over its finish.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

I'm not sure where you're looking but on the official webpage of the SBGR055, both statistics are mentioned, and the distinction between factory tests and 'actually worn' accuracy is made quite clearly.


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## no name no slogan (Nov 23, 2014)

skyWalker said:


> Also for a watch, I would like its function over its finish.


You obviously don't, as you apparently had no idea what the watch specifications were when you purchased it...



skyWalker said:


> ...then Seiko should not advertise that their watch is -3 / +5 when in actual fact is -1 / +10.


...and even after I've provided both a link to the manufacturer's site as well as the direct relevant text they provide regarding the spec, you still don't understand what the spec is.

It's hard to take you seriously as you seem to just want to whine without understanding details about the watch you purchased.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

The point is Seiko is the only one that provides 2 specs (static and worn) for a watch? It's meaningless to provide a static spec when it can't be achieved when worn. 

Most if not all COSC watches have only one spec (which is the COSC spec).

So in fact, the specifications for Grand Seiko mechanical watches is not better than COSC.


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## Ugly-Nugget (Feb 12, 2013)

I find this a little amusing, you seem to think there is a huge difference between -4/+6 COSC and -1/+10 Seiko. There is a deviation difference of 1 sec, and I would personally want my watch run fast than slow. 


They give 2 specs because they know there is a deviation between static and worn, what is so complicated.


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## no name no slogan (Nov 23, 2014)

skyWalker said:


> So in fact, the specifications for Grand Seiko mechanical watches is not better than COSC.


I don't think anyone claimed the GS spec was better than COSC (for this particular movement, for others they actually are), just that they were virtually the same variance (11 vs 10 secs).

But just to summarize:

- you want COSC spec
- you are not primarily interested in finishing
- you chose to buy a GS without knowing its accuracy spec
- GS is known for exceptional finishing
- you are now sad

Seems like you need to work on your decision tree making skills.


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## bmfang (Feb 12, 2016)

AFAIK, COSC spec is for uncased movements. NOT cased movements., Which is essentially similar to GS' uncased spec of -3/+5 a day.

Most COSC certified movements once cased up don't usually have a performance expectation given to it again like Seiko provide with their -1/+10 for finished GS watches (with the exception of those brands who do give even tighter tolerances once they've cased up the movement).

Hell, my COSC Ball NEDU doesn't come with any cased performance specs apart from the knowledge that the 7750 inside is a chronometer rated movement (and on occasions, it has been outside of the uncased COSC spec for a little period of time before coming back within it).


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Let's set a few things straight

Grand Seiko provides two sets of specs, both CASED: 

1. When the watch is stationary, which is between -3/+5; and
2. Under normal wearing situation, which is within -1/+10.

COSC standard is -4/+6, on UNCASED movements submitted by watchmakers.

The only other mass manufacturer who guarantees accuracy on CASED watches that I'm aware of is Rolex. And from 2015 onward their spec is -2/+2.

My GS SBGR051 is gaining 1.8spd consistently, which is just as good as my Rolex pieces.

Admittedly I only wear my GS a couple days a week max so it sits stationary more often than being worn, so it probably averages out closer to their started "stationary" spec. But even on the days that it's being worn it doesn't drift away much from gaining 2 sec a day.

a watch is meant to be worn


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

I was thinking about -4/+6 and -1/+10. Yes, the range is only 1 sec difference, but the worst case for COSC is 6sec out, but for Grand Seiko is 10sec out. The accuracy difference is 4 sec per day.


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## bmfang (Feb 12, 2016)

skyWalker said:


> I was thinking about -4/+6 and -1/+10. Yes, the range is only 1 sec difference, but the worst case for COSC is 6sec out, but for Grand Seiko is 10sec out. The accuracy difference is 4 sec per day.


You still don't seem to have grasped the concepts we have been talking about.

COSC -4/+6 is UNCASED and stationary. GS' -1/+10 is CASED and during normal use. Essentially, you are comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to compare GS specs to COSC, it has to be the uncased, stationary specs.

While COSC movements once cased MAY end up performing as per the spec for uncased movements, they may end up not performing that way to various factors in normal use. I've had that with my COSC 7750 which at one point in time was running at +8s/day in normal use. And although I freaked out about it to the point where I wanted to get it regulated so that it would be within "COSC spec", saner folks on WUS have told me to calm down a bit. And they were right.

Seiko however have been honest enough to factor normal use into their -1/+10 spec for cased movements. So that +8s is fully within the specs they have.

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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

For my understanding, a watch running at +10sec per day when worn. Then, uncase, and tested under "static" condition is able to achieve -3/+5sec per day?


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## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

To be fair I believe most consumers will expect their COSC certified watches to run within -4/+6 when worn normally, and yes watch manufacturers will regulate the watch under warranty no questions asked if it runs out of said specs. 

What I find funny for GS is that they have two sets of specs, it's like an easy way out for them if your watch doesn't run within -3/+5 since when worn normally it becomes -1/+10 which I feel is a larger variance. 

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## ten13th (Nov 2, 2013)

skyWalker said:


> Just found an interesting debate on this :
> rolex v.s grand seiko - Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum


Thanks for this link. Very refreshing to read the discussion in Rolex forum.

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## bmfang (Feb 12, 2016)

skyWalker said:


> For my understanding, a watch running at +10sec per way when worn. Then, uncase, and tested under "static" condition is able to achieve -3/+5sec per day?


In short, yes.

There are plenty of variables as to performance of the balance at various angles based on how you are wearing it, whether the watch receives a shock if one happens to bang it into something or you are shaking something, etc. Add in modern issues like magnetic fields which are in more places than one knows (and the typical GS has the minimum standard required for it to be considered as anti-magnetic, i.e. 4800A/m or 60 Gauss) and the performance will vary.

I'm sure that the testing done at COSC and at Seiko is under the most pristine conditions where vibration, magnetic fields, etc are not present and thus cannot affect the movements.

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## AKM (May 30, 2016)

The Seiko UK service centre has a good reputation so I'm not sure I'd criticise the brand world-wide.

The 9S calibre works best when fully wound and worn everyday, time keeping becomes more erratic as the power reserve runs down and may be a consequence of the generous power reserve which is a day longer than most Swiss rivals.

Like any mechanical watch it is also susceptible to positional errors off the wrist so you may be able to 'self regulate' it by the position you leave it in off the wrist, which will cause it to gain or lose by differing amounts. Any adjustments to the watch when it was made will have been to achieve the overall performance and the specs in different positions. 

The booklet states that if you can't achieve the specs on your wrist / real world conditions, the service centre will adjust the watch for you free of charge within the warranty period. I guess it's disappointing if this policy wasn't able to be fulfilled locally. 

I can't rule out magnetism, but as shown above there could be other explanations. I managed to get my 9S calibre running within a second a day after experimenting with positions off the wrist and wearing it every day, previously it was more like 7 seconds a day. 


PS I'm wearing my SBGM023 right now and since this time yesterday, it is running at +-0 secs. The watch is 3 1/2 years old.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

balzebub said:


> To be fair I believe most consumers will expect their COSC certified watches to run within -4/+6 when worn normally, and yes watch manufacturers will regulate the watch under warranty no questions asked if it runs out of said specs.
> 
> What I find funny for GS is that they have two sets of specs, it's like an easy way out for them if your watch doesn't run within -3/+5 since when worn normally it becomes -1/+10 which I feel is a larger variance.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk


Is this true? Other watch manufacturers regulate the watch no questions asked under warranty if your watch is say +7/day?

@skywalker: http://www.sgrolexclub.com/threads/50276-Rolex-Submariner-faster-by-6-second-everyday?
Looks like even if you can send in your watch for regulation, there are some risks involved.


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## AKM (May 30, 2016)

Grand Seiko isn't for everyone.

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## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

KtWUS said:


> Is this true? Other watch manufacturers regulate the watch no questions asked under warranty if your watch is say +7/day?
> 
> @skywalker: http://www.sgrolexclub.com/threads/50276-Rolex-Submariner-faster-by-6-second-everyday?
> Looks like even if you can send in your watch for regulation, there are some risks involved.


I had RSC regulate my explorer 2 even though it was running WITHIN -4/+6s, it was around -3 to -4s slow. I told the RSC CS staff I preferred it to run faster, no questions asked. Took a few hours and now it is at +0.8s on average.

Swatch had also regulated my vintage Omega to run within stated specs of +10s for their non COSC certified watches..no questions asked, no waffling.

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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

AKM said:


> The Seiko UK service centre has a good reputation so I'm not sure I'd criticise the brand world-wide.
> 
> The 9S calibre works best when fully wound and worn everyday, time keeping becomes more erratic as the power reserve runs down and may be a consequence of the generous power reserve which is a day longer than most Swiss rivals.
> 
> ...


Yes, if only the Service Center in Singapore is as good as yours in UK.....


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## Ugly-Nugget (Feb 12, 2013)

I my self don't worry about even a +10 sec a day, I usually change my watches everyday so it is not an issue for me. Even for + 10 I am not sure I would bother having it messed with. Every time a watch goes in for a service or adjusting things can happen so to me it's not worth it, but for a -4 sec that would bug me.


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## JD ARTHUR (Mar 8, 2015)

This is what I have found. A mechanical watch that runs 5 seconds fast per day on my wrist will probably run different on yours. A mechanical watch will run different in different environments. If you want to have a Grand Seiko or any other quality watch really 
run as accurate as it is capable of on your wrist it will have to be regulated for YOU. A good watch maker can get it almost perfect but may take a couple of tries. He must know how often you wear the watch and how fast or slow it runs on YOUR wrist in your environment. The GS watches have a fine adjustment and its possible to get unbelievable results if you can find a watchmaker with the skill and patience to do it. Its not easy to find a watchmaker today that meets that criteria. The factory adjusts them within specs when they are in a controlled environment before they are even put in a case, they then are cased and ready to sell. Some buyers live in hot climates, some cold, some are exposed to more magnetism than others, some wearers are very active, some are not,etc, everything affects the accuracy. Many of us buy the Grand Seiko because of the perceived accuracy, in reality the accuracy we were hoping for might only be achievable with the help of a skilled watchmaker.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

I agree. 

Seiko should equip their staff with this technical skill if they want to expand their Grand Seiko line worldwide.

They can't expect customer to wait for 3 months (hopefully) to get the watch regulated.


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

^
Who says it's a 3 month wait?
Regulation of the movement doesn’t require the watch to go back to Japan – it needs nothing more than a decent watch technician, a timegrapher, and a pressure test…all of which Seiko service centres have in the regions in which the Grand Seikos are officially sold.


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## JD ARTHUR (Mar 8, 2015)

It is true that a decent watch technician and a timgrapher and some patience can get the regulation done just fine. It is not as easy to find such a technician as it used to be but they can be found. I don't care about the pressure test as I don't go in the water with my watches, they may get wet but I don't submerge them on purpose. Any Grand Seiko is capable of amazing accuracy but a technician who can regulate it might be necessary if that is important to the wearer.


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## EugV12 (Apr 6, 2015)

vCardinal said:


> By achieving COSC standards, those brands charge for a Chronometer watch, which usually finds itself at a much higher price bracket if it's packaged in Grand Seiko level finish.
> 
> It's not a question of Seiko _not _being able to put out a COSC watch, it's a question of them already having their hyper-accurate line available. If you're shopping for $4000, mechanical only and COSC certified, in my humble opinion, you're looking at the wrong brand. Even JLC, which features similar levels of finish, have this kind of variance in their non chronometer watches.
> 
> ...


I don't think OP's expectations of a better accuracy than +8 sec/day is ridiculous at all. A GS is not an ordinary Seiko and neither is it priced as such. Countless posts and articles compared it favourably to most Swiss brands in all aspects 9including accuracy. That Seiko doesn't subscribe to COSC is irrelevant. Now, I am not aware of the +10 sec/day being an acceptable deviation, but if either one of my GSs was running 8 sec/day fast, I'd be unimpressed as well. SD has nothing to do with the OP's concern. SD is not for everybody, just as quartz.

And Seiko service centre in Singapore is indeed below par. It services all Seiko's regardless of price, and often without proper attention to those who pay top bucks for their watch. Seiko really should have GS/SD/Ananta dedicated centers. If I buy a Bentley, I wouldn't want to bring it to VW dealer for service.


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## airgee (Apr 19, 2016)

EugV12 said:


> I don't think OP's expectations of a better accuracy than +8 sec/day is ridiculous at all. A GS is not an ordinary Seiko and neither is it priced as such. Countless posts and articles compared it favourably to most Swiss brands in all aspects 9including accuracy. That Seiko doesn't subscribe to COSC is irrelevant. Now, I am not aware of the +10 sec/day being an acceptable deviation, but if either one of my GSs was running 8 sec/day fast, I'd be unimpressed as well.


I completely agree with you.

To put things into perspective, current Rolex models in the same price segment than GS are now certified at -2 to +2 sec/day. And I'm sure that this spec is understood by Rolex clients and Rolex as a WORN spec, not a static spec. Another point of perspective : Tudor is now selling COSC certified watches for ~3000 € in Europe (half the typical GS price here). And Tudor watches (being Rolex "little sister" company) are backed by Rolex Service Centers and ADs with the same policy regarding accuracy specs.

Omega isn't standing still either. They are pushing their META certification on top of already COSC'ed 85xx/95xx movements, which are known to be usually quite a bit more accurate when worn that what's required by the uncased and static COSC. And a lot of Omega models are priced below GS ...

On accuracy, I think Seiko should work a bit if they want to compete with the established heavy-weights. At least if they want to (as it seems) and if they want to show up the accuracy of their mechanical timepieces.

And yes, I know that some collectors buy watches without much attention to their accuracy.
But a lot a people will buy only one luxury watch to wear it about every day and to them, accuracy is a strong argument.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

airgee said:


> I completely agree with you.
> 
> To put things into perspective, current Rolex models in the same price segment than GS are now certified at -2 to +2 sec/day. And I'm sure that this spec is understood by Rolex clients and Rolex as a WORN spec, not a static spec. Another point of perspective : Tudor is now selling COSC certified watches for ~3000 € in Europe (half the typical GS price here). And Tudor watches (being Rolex "little sister" company) are backed by Rolex Service Centers and ADs with the same policy regarding accuracy specs.
> 
> ...


3000 EUR is not half the typical GS price of their non-hibeat mechanical watches. Those have an MSRP of roughly 3600-4000 USD. Tudor's BB with the ETA 2824 sits at 3500 USD at retail. We have already established that COSC standards (uncased) are about the same as GS standards (worn). As far as accuracy goes, in my eyes they are equivalent.

I am impressed by Rolex's +-2. My bet is that you would be hard pressed to get that kind of guarantee from JLC for example. But then, that isn't why people buy JLCs.

I do agree it would be nice if service centers would regulate watches readily, which is the main thing that prevents accuracy rather than issues with the movement. Price isn't the issue here - an ETA 2824 found in many significantly lower priced models can achieve good accuracy with regulation. I think the real issue is the wearer - which requires regulation to fix as JD Arthur points out.


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## KazeKei (Jan 11, 2012)

PJ S said:


> ^
> Who says it's a 3 month wait?
> Regulation of the movement doesn't require the watch to go back to Japan - it needs nothing more than a decent watch technician, a timegrapher, and a pressure test&#8230;all of which Seiko service centres have in the regions in which the Grand Seikos are officially sold.


The fact is most seiko service center do not have GS certified technician and they often have to send it back to Japan for any issue, even as minor as a regulation.

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## uncle234 (May 15, 2011)

EugV12 said:


> I don't think OP's expectations of a better accuracy than +8 sec/day is ridiculous at all. A GS is not an ordinary Seiko and neither is it priced as such. Countless posts and articles compared it favourably to most Swiss brands in all aspects 9including accuracy. That Seiko doesn't subscribe to COSC is irrelevant. Now, I am not aware of the +10 sec/day being an acceptable deviation, but if either one of my GSs was running 8 sec/day fast, I'd be unimpressed as well. SD has nothing to do with the OP's concern. SD is not for everybody, just as quartz.
> 
> And Seiko service centre in Singapore is indeed below par. It services all Seiko's regardless of price, and often without proper attention to those who pay top bucks for their watch. Seiko really should have GS/SD/Ananta dedicated centers. If I buy a Bentley, I wouldn't want to bring it to VW dealer for service.


I totally agree with this post. My own experience in sending my GS for servicing has been horrifying to say the least.


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## JD ARTHUR (Mar 8, 2015)

Once again, even if its sent to a service center half way around the world and regulated statically in 7 positions it will not be the same on your wrist. Even if the technician regulates it to his wrist in his environment it will not be the same as when on your wrist. It might be better or it might be worse, but it won't be the same. The technician that I trust is in Colorado, I am in Nevada, he first regulates my watch on his machine and then wears it on his wrist and gets it as good as he can, less than one and a half seconds fast a day, this is over almost three weeks. He then sends it back to me. If it runs better or the same as when he had it I am happy. If it doesn't The I will send it back because I know its capable of under 1.5 seconds a day. I tell him the on my wrist its 2 seconds a day fast, does he think he can make it better. He says send it back. When he returns it I am happy, slightly less than one second a day fast and I find a position where it can lose most of that at night while I'm sleeping. THIS IS AN EXTREME SCENARIO, BUT TRUE. The point is that I believe if you want the watch to be as accurate as possible you might have to go to these extremes. I don't think you can send it to Japan or anywhere else and expect that when you wear it on your wrist it will be as accurate as it could be with a good technician who will work with you. The watch I am referring to is the watch I wear daily, it is only an SBGR053. I have several vintage Grand Seiko's starting from the first 3180 and even those can be regulated with patience to accuracy that a stock new mechanical Hi Beat GS would be thrilled with. If you want darn near perfect accuracy out of the box you will have to buy quartz or second to that a spring drive model. Purely mechanical watches will most likely take some work but it can be done. Sometimes I ask myself, why is this so important to me? There are more like me into these watches and I wonder what their answer would be.


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## KazeKei (Jan 11, 2012)

Practically it doesn't really matter if the watch run 10 sec fast or 10 sec slow per day, it's only a min different for a week, I don't even set my watch so accurately when I'm setting the time. 

However because of the prices that we are paying, I think we are entitled to accuracy as far as possible. 

That said, I'm not too bothered as long as it is within specs, and I will probably try regulating it when the warranty is over. 



Sent using Tapatalk


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

KazeKei said:


> Practically it doesn't really matter if the watch run 10 sec fast or 10 sec slow per day, it's only a min different for a week, I don't even set my watch so accurately when I'm setting the time.
> 
> However because of the prices that we are paying, I think we are entitled to accuracy as far as possible.
> 
> ...


Aren't we entitled, at best, to the accuracy stated in the specifications (in this case, -1/+10)?


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## KazeKei (Jan 11, 2012)

KtWUS said:


> Aren't we entitled, at best, to the accuracy stated in the specifications (in this case, -1/+10)?


But The OP said his accuracy is at+8 sec? did I missed something ? As long as it is within specs I'm fine, and of cos we are entitled to what was advertised.

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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

KazeKei said:


> But The OP said his accuracy is at+8 sec? did I missed something ? As long as it is within specs I'm fine, and of cos we are entitled to what was advertised.
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


Yes OP said his accuracy is at +8 so it is within spec. I was responding to your "I think we are entitled to accuracy as far as possible" which seems a little too much. We're at best entitled to what was advertised.


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## KazeKei (Jan 11, 2012)

KtWUS said:


> Yes OP said his accuracy is at +8 so it is within spec. I was responding to your "I think we are entitled to accuracy as far as possible" which seems a little too much. We're at best entitled to what was advertised.


Actually I meant as far as possible (within specs). +8 is fine, but of cos +2 I won't complaint 

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## Watchyman (Mar 4, 2010)

uncle234 said:


> If it is any consolation, my SBGR051 (same 9s65 movement) runs at about +10 secs a day out of box. I believe GS policy is that the watch is within specs as long as its within 10 secs a day.
> 
> I don't think this is an isolated case. Searching 9s65 accuracy on google seems to bring about several other complains on the Internet.
> 
> ...


Do you have a "lowly Hamilton " chronometer or chronograph?

Sent from my BLU LIFE ONE X using Tapatalk


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## dkbs (Nov 2, 2008)

I said many years ago at Seiko forum, and I would say again: Japanese chronometer standard is +/-10spd. COSC is 5spd. Rolex now guarantee +/-2 spd for five years.

Once I owned a GS and had the same situation. I contacted GS service center at Tokyo. Their CSR rejected my warranty claim because I misunderstood Japanese chronometer standard. I was told 10-15spd error is what we should expect. My GS had +15spd error at that time and it was just about 1 year.

It is very hard to make a stable accurate mechanical watch and Japanese are not good at it. That's why you see less and less 9S55/9S65 etc. People nowadays say "my GS runs 1sec faster in a month!".



skyWalker said:


> I bought a Grand Seiko SBGR055 in Jun 2015.
> 
> It was running accurately out of the box about +2sec per day. I was happy.
> 
> ...


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## uncle234 (May 15, 2011)

dkbs said:


> I said many years ago at Seiko forum, and I would say again: Japanese chronometer standard is +/-10spd. COSC is 5spd. Rolex now guarantee +/-2 spd for five years.
> 
> Once I owned a GS and had the same situation. I contacted GS service center at Tokyo. Their CSR rejected my warranty claim because I misunderstood Japanese chronometer standard. I was told 10-15spd error is what we should expect. My GS had +15spd error at that time and it was just about 1 year.
> 
> It is very hard to make a stable accurate mechanical watch and Japanese are not good at it. That's why you see less and less 9S55/9S65 etc. People nowadays say "my GS runs 1sec faster in a month!".


My SBGR051 is just back from Grand Seiko servicing in Tokyo (June 2016). It is currently running at +6-7 secs/day.

While it is within GS specs of +/-10 secs/day, I am a little disappointed considering my Hamilton Jazzmaster Chrono, which runs on a common Valjoux 7750 movement, has been consistently running at only +2 secs/day.


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## new2watchuseek (Jun 7, 2016)

uncle234 said:


> My SBGR051 is just back from Grand Seiko servicing in Tokyo (June 2016). It is currently running at +6-7 secs/day.
> 
> While it is within GS specs of +/-10 secs/day, I am a little disappointed considering my Hamilton Jazzmaster Chrono, which runs on a common Valjoux 7750 movement, has been consistently running at only +2 secs/day.


When I bought my GS more than 10 years ago it was very accurate, I believe it was around +1 s/day. 
After the second service performed in Japan it ran fast +10 seconds /day. 
Plus I got several scratches on the hands. 
At the last service (also in Japan) I asked them to regulate it so it would be closer to 1-2 seconds/day. It's settled to ~6-7 seconds/day (oh, they charged me for the scratches _they _put there in the first place).
I love the look and presence my GS has and yes, Seiko makes wonderful GS watches but I am not very satisfied with their service or the accuracy. 
At this price point, I feel a watch should perform better than this.

Notably my vintage Rolex DJ gains 0.5 seconds day if it feels it's in a rush but otherwise it's spot on 7 days /week. It's like a quartz.
I've owned Submariners, Omega and they all were also very accurate. 
Sometimes I feel Seiko doesn't care much about accuracy as long as the dial and case look good.

Obviously others have better experience with their GS but I'm just telling you about my experience.


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## JD ARTHUR (Mar 8, 2015)

GS Japan or any other service center will only regulate on their timegrapger, not the same at all as on your wrist. I have a 9S65 movement in my SBGR053 that took a couple of tries but now runs less than a second a day on my wrist. If I take it off at night it either runs faster or slower depending on which way I place it, face up, crown up, crown down, but on my wrist it stainless than one second fast until I take it off. this could only be accomplished by technician that takes into account what it does on your wrist, not his or his timeagrapher. GS of Japan or anywhere else can only do it on the timagrapher in several positions and that will most likely be not like on your wrist. I don't know how Rolex can do it better but according to some on this forum they can and do. If I ever replace my watch and accuracy is still a concern I will get a SD or a Quartz but I hope to just keep the SBGR053.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

From accuracy point of view, there's no doubt that Grand Seiko's Quartz and Spring Drive are dead on accurate. The Japanese nearly wiped out the Swiss with its quartz.... 

However, from what I gathered so far, it seems that their mechanical watches lags behind their European counterparts in terms of accuracy.

If one wanted to own a Grand Seiko, I would recommend you to get a Spring Drive or Quartz and avoid the mechanical models.


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## dkbs (Nov 2, 2008)

You should know there is a device called "Final Test", or device for large batch acoustic testing:

http://ablogtowatch.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Rolex-Watch-Manufacture-3.jpg










JD ARTHUR said:


> GS Japan or any other service center will only regulate on their timegrapger, not the same at all as on your wrist. I have a 9S65 movement in my SBGR053 that took a couple of tries but now runs less than a second a day on my wrist. If I take it off at night it either runs faster or slower depending on which way I place it, face up, crown up, crown down, but on my wrist it stainless than one second fast until I take it off. this could only be accomplished by technician that takes into account what it does on your wrist, not his or his timeagrapher. GS of Japan or anywhere else can only do it on the timagrapher in several positions and that will most likely be not like on your wrist. I don't know how Rolex can do it better but according to some on this forum they can and do. If I ever replace my watch and accuracy is still a concern I will get a SD or a Quartz but I hope to just keep the SBGR053.


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## BigSeikoFan (Feb 15, 2010)

new2watchuseek said:


> ...
> Notably my vintage Rolex DJ *gains 0.5 seconds day if it feels it's in a rush but otherwise it's spot on 7 days /week.* It's like a quartz.
> ...
> Obviously others have better experience with their GS but I'm just telling you about my experience.


Just to clarify, do you get this accuracy _independent_ of the position you leave the watch on your dresser overnight?

I've heard many claims of quartz-like accuracy but oftentimes, their owners set their watches in a specific position to offset the gain/loss experienced during the day with a corresponding loss/gain overnight. Yeah, they may wind up with a 0 sec variance over a day's time but it sorta feels like cheating to me...

However, if you wear your watch 24/7 and you _still_ get that accuracy...


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## new2watchuseek (Jun 7, 2016)

BigSeikoFan said:


> Just to clarify, do you get this accuracy _independent_ of the position you leave the watch on your dresser overnight?
> 
> I've heard many claims of quartz-like accuracy but oftentimes, their owners set their watches in a specific position to offset the gain/loss experienced during the day with a corresponding loss/gain overnight. Yeah, they may wind up with a 0 sec variance over a day's time but it sorta feels like cheating to me...
> 
> However, if you wear your watch 24/7 and you _still_ get that accuracy...


Honestly I don't remember if I experimented much with various positions since the watch was so accurate when I got it back from overhaul. 
I'm not sure in what circumstances the watch decides to run .5 seconds fast though. Could be temperature variations.

Overnight, I let it rest in one position. It's dead spot on the following morning. So there is no variation or "cheating" (I don't think it's cheating though. Cheating is when you have to vigorously shake your watch for half a minute to gain the lost seconds like I do with my Sumo  ).

The watchmaker had no prior information on how I wore my watch. I don't know how he regulated my DJ but I sure want to shake his hand!

I'm no professional but my take on this is if any decent watchmaker can regulate your watch to achieve such an awesome precision without knowing anything about your wearing habits, a Grand Seiko tech should be able to do it as well. All the talk about a movement's accuracy that is different when it's inside its case, hence you have to accept a watch running 10 seconds/day fast when it's on your wrist - a watch that costs thousands of $ - doesn't sound right to me.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

Watch making had come along way, and today many Swiss mechanical watches are very accurate. My IWC Pilot Chrono is +1 spd, regardless of how you wear or rest it... IWC also don't get their watches COSC certified. That's how the Swiss survived the quartz onslaught...

From accuracy point of view, Grand Seiko mechanical watches still have a long way to catch up especially if they are going global and compete with the rest...


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

skyWalker said:


> From accuracy point of view, Grand Seiko mechanical watches still have a long way to catch up especially if they are going global and compete with the rest...


How do you know? Do you know about them all? I suspect that the vast majority, the owners that did not post here, are happy with great accuracy, whatever you you want to call it.


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## Ticonderoga (Apr 4, 2015)

What you said was this:



vCardinal said:


> By achieving COSC standards, those brands charge for a Chronometer watch, which usually finds itself at a much higher price bracket if it's packaged in Grand Seiko level finish.
> 
> It's not a question of Seiko _not _being able to put out a COSC watch, it's a question of them already having their hyper-accurate line available. If you're shopping for $4000, mechanical only and COSC certified, in my humble opinion, you're looking at the wrong brand. Even JLC, which features similar levels of finish, have this kind of variance in their non chronometer watches.
> 
> ...


What we heard is this:



vCardinal said:


> By achieving COSC standards, those brands charge for a Chronometer watch, which usually finds itself at a much higher price bracket if it's packaged in Grand Seiko level finish.
> 
> It's not a question of Seiko _not _being able to put out a COSC watch, it's a question of them already having their hyper-accurate line available. If you're shopping for $4000, mechanical only and COSC certified, in my humble opinion, you're looking at the wrong brand. Even JLC, which features similar levels of finish, have this kind of variance in their non chronometer watches.
> 
> ...


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

Update :
Today, Seiko Service Center called, they said that Japan informed them that there's nothing wrong with my watch. Running +8spd is normal and is within -1/+10 spd specification. I asked if they can regulate the watch. They said that +8spd is already very good for a Grand Seiko mechanical watch. I asked again. They said that they will inform Japan to regulate to +7spd. I said no. I'm looking at +2/+3spd (it was running +2spd for months !). I'm paying for the freight ! Silence.... "We will inform Japan", they said later. 

This is more than 1 month after I sent it in...

In contrast, I sent in my 3yrs old (after warranty) Rolex to the service center because there's a speck of dust on the dial yesterday. They called on the same day evening that all is cleaned and is ready for collection. I went today, expecting to pay but it was free ! And they gave me a green Rolex pouch and cleaning cloth for my watch ! <-- This is service!


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

Ticonderoga said:


> What you said was this:
> 
> What we heard is this:


Forget the Spring Drive. What he's saying is right - its a little too much to be expecting high accuracy and high finish at GS prices. As I said before in this thread, Rolex's +-2 is impressive but their watches are also a lot more expensive given the lower level of finishing that they offer. You just have to decide whether the trade off between price, accuracy, and finish are worth it for you. Hand-finished cases, indices, and hands, don't come cheap.

As for after-sales service experience, that's another issue altogether. Seiko will probably do better as their higher end lines become more global.


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## JD ARTHUR (Mar 8, 2015)

Some owners are lucky and their watches run almost spot on, some are not as lucky and the same brand and model runs 5 or 10 seconds off every day. The watches are built identical but the results vary. The regulation is what is different and a skilled technician who is willing to devote the time necessary can get almost any quality mechanical watch to run within a couple of seconds a day WHILE ON ONES WRIST.


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## Kasset1975 (Mar 1, 2014)

Much better experience in the UK for me; I sent my auto GS with warranty booklet to Seiko UK for regulation, as I was unhappy it was -2 sec per day, telling them I preferred my watches to run a bit over 1 sec per day.

They regulated it to +2sec per day. Whole process took about 1 week. Shame you're not in the UK!


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

Final Update.

I received my watch 2 days ago. That is 3 months and 1 week after I sent it in.

The service report said cleaning was done, a gasket was replaced and adjustment was done on the escapement.

The watch is running slightly more than +1 sec per day.

Hope that it stays this way.

I'm happy with the performance now.


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## Blackwood1957 (Oct 11, 2016)

I have just bought a SBGH001J with the 9S86 movement, its averaging +6.8s/d which is not to bad except I have a Rolex GMT II that is only +0.9s/d and an Omega Coaxial at 2.1s/d so considering the H-Beat is meant to be more accurate its being put to shame by the Swiss movements.


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## LightDot (Jan 11, 2016)

skyWalker said:


> Final Update.
> 
> I received my watch 2 days ago. That is 3 months and 1 week after I sent it in.
> 
> ...


This is excellent news. You'll probably enjoy your watch a lot more now. That being said, the whole procedure really could be a bit less awkward and much faster, for Seiko's sake... and for the owner's sake too, of course.



Blackwood1957 said:


> I have just bought a SBGH001J with the 9S86 movement, its averaging +6.8s/d which is not to bad except I have a Rolex GMT II that is only +0.9s/d and an Omega Coaxial at 2.1s/d so considering the H-Beat is meant to be more accurate its being put to shame by the Swiss movements.


Nah, not really. This doesn't tell you anything definitely about the accuracy this particular Seiko mechanism is capable of, it just tells you which watch is regulated better, for your pattern of usage.

If your 9S86 is doing, let's say, between +6.3s and +7.2s every day, regardless of what you do while wearing it, etc., than all it needs is a bit of regulation and it might as well do +0.8s per day instead of +6.8s.

Consistency is the key. If your watch performs the same day in and day out, come rain or shine, you can have it regulated pretty close to 0s.

Ideally, you'd take your watch to a capable watchmaker, tell him a bit how it performs, have it regulated and tested for water resistance while waiting with a nice beverage or a cup of coffee in your hand and than take it home with you. After observing it's behaviour for a day or two, you might need to return once more, you might not. And that's about it.


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## Theo Sudarja (Jun 29, 2015)

uncle234 said:


> My SBGR051 is just back from Grand Seiko servicing in Tokyo (June 2016). It is currently running at +6-7 secs/day.
> 
> While it is within GS specs of +/-10 secs/day, I am a little disappointed considering my Hamilton Jazzmaster Chrono, which runs on a common Valjoux 7750 movement, has been consistently running at only +2 secs/day.


This is a joke. Oh dear Seiko..


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## Jezza (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm not sure there's a great deal to be concerned about, aside from Grand Seiko service, which doesn't seem to be on par with the price of the watch in all locations. On the other hand, try to get a JLC serviced and see how long you have to wait! Then there's Tudor: I can tell you from personal experience the new manufacture movements are not repaired, but rather swapped-out like dead batteries. Of course, it's much quicker, too. Good service is highly subjective. I suspect Seiko is going through some growingpains as it sells the Grand Seiko line-up outside of Japan.

As for the accuracy, I think all manufacturers advertise with a little confusion regarding their mechanical movements. For example, when I look-up the METAS certification for my Omega Master Chronometer 8900 Planet Ocean, I see the "Average Daily Chronometric Precision of the Watch" must range between 0 to 5s per day,which is an average of 6 positions over four days and two temperatures. However, the watch can also have a "Deviation of Chronometric Precision in Six Positions" of 0 to 12s per day. So, if my Omega is off by +8, is it out of spec?

As others have noted, I think consistency is a better indicator of performance, and your watch seems to be very consistent in terms of performance. It's my limited understanding that watches with a regulated balance are more sensitive to positional changes. Perhaps resting your watch in adifferent position at night will change the results.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

If I have an Omega Chronometer PO, and it is running at +8spd, I'll bring it back to the service center. It's out of the chronometer specifications.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

skyWalker said:


> If I have an Omega Chronometer PO, and it is running at +8spd, I'll bring it back to the service center. It's out of the chronometer specifications.


Grand Seiko forum here, I think you are lost ;-) .


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## Jezza (Aug 4, 2010)

skyWalker said:


> If I have an Omega Chronometer PO, and it is running at +8spd, I'll bring it back to the service center. It's out of the chronometer specifications.


Haha--I probably would, too. But, my point was that given the somewhat confusing standards various manufacturers use, what does "out of spec" really mean? In my example, +8 seconds might be out of spec for METAS; but, it might not. Also, the basic Chronometer rating is only for the uncased movement. Technically, a watch movement could pass COSC, and be faster or slower once cased. This puts an owner at the mercy of the manufacturer in terms of whether the manufacturer will make adjustments to the rate within the warranty period--and that, to me, is the difference right now. If I had a +8-running Omega under warranty, and took it to my local boutique, they would certainly address the timing, gratis. Rolex would (and has for me) do the same. I'm not sure GS has the bandwidth to be this accommodating at this stage in their development. I wonder--and have asked--whether GS is slacking a little in their mechanical watch movement design and adjustment because they have super-accurate alternatives like the Spring Drive, or the 9F quartz.

Regardless of all this, I'm still anxiously awaiting my SBGR251!


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## Blastar (Jun 22, 2017)

I read about this method on "official MM300 thread". People get good results leaving watch for the night crown up, for some people crown down works better. Since GrandSeiko movements are similar to MM300, Last night I left my GS-GMT crown up. I was amazed, that instead of regular +6spd to +10spd today my watch has performed at +2spd !
PS. When writing this I remembered about this method in GS manual, the page:









Jezza said:


> Perhaps resting your watch in a different position at night will change the results.


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## willa1975 (Nov 17, 2013)

For a little over a year, my SBGJ003 kept great time. It then suddenly started losing time at an average of 5+ seconds per day. I just sent it back to my AD, so we will see what happens.

This is actually my second SBGJ003; the first one developed problems with the hour hand not being on the hour when the minute hand was at the 12 o'clock position and Seiko replaced that one for me.

I love the aesthetics and finishing of the watch, but can't justify buying another GS after this experience.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

I gave up on Grand Seiko mechanical watch. Sold off my after it came back from service by GS Japan. Now, Im
I'm left with a GS spring drive. Don't think I would buy another GS.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

willa1975 said:


> For a little over a year, my SBGJ003 kept great time. It then suddenly started losing time at an average of 5+ seconds per day. I just sent it back to my AD, so we will see what happens.
> 
> This is actually my second SBGJ003; the first one developed problems with the hour hand not being on the hour when the minute hand was at the 12 o'clock position and Seiko replaced that one for me.
> 
> I love the aesthetics and finishing of the watch, but can't justify buying another GS after this experience.


Interesting. Was it a steady -5 sec/day? If so, that's pretty good, your watch is well-behaved (isochronous). That kind of thing can happen from an impact, it affects the regulator mechanism.

Please let us know what the AD does to fix it.


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## willa1975 (Nov 17, 2013)

whineboy said:


> Interesting. Was it a steady -5 sec/day? If so, that's pretty good, your watch is well-behaved (isochronous). That kind of thing can happen from an impact, it affects the regulator mechanism.
> 
> Please let us know what the AD does to fix it.


It has been pretty steady at that rate.

I will update after it comes back from service.


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## Raydius (Jul 26, 2016)

Blastar said:


> I read about this method on "official MM300 thread". People get good results leaving watch for the night crown up, for some people crown down works better. Since GrandSeiko movements are similar to MM300, Last night I left my GS-GMT crown up. I was amazed, that instead of regular +6spd to +10spd today my watch has performed at +2spd !
> PS. When writing this I remembered about this method in GS manual, the page:
> View attachment 12455629


Yes if it's anything like the 8L35 then it's highly dependent on position. This is actually another ding against it, unfortunately. I regulated my MM300 to be +1s with MY typical usage and storage habits (dial up in the box) but it could possibly be way off for someone else.

I only have a spring drive GS, and don't really have much interest in the pure mechanicals (hi beat or not) because it just can't hang with the similarly priced Swiss pieces in this regard.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

"....I only have a spring drive GS, and don't really have much interest in the pure mechanicals (hi beat or not) because it just can't hang with the similarly priced Swiss pieces in this regard." --> exactly, same sentiments.


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## Avantgardetime17 (Jan 1, 2017)

If you like mechanicals but value high accuracy Spring Drive is where is at. On the other hand if you are mechanical only kind of guy and expect sustained daily accuracy, stick with Rolex.


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## skyWalker (Oct 15, 2006)

Avantgardetime17 said:


> If you like mechanicals but value high accuracy Spring Drive is where is at. On the other hand if you are mechanical only kind of guy and expect sustained daily accuracy, stick with Rolex.


Agreed!


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## Mirabello1 (Sep 1, 2011)

Avantgardetime17 said:


> If you like mechanicals but value high accuracy Spring Drive is where is at. On the other hand if you are mechanical only kind of guy and expect sustained daily accuracy, stick with Rolex.


Or Omega

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