# Conclusion: Brookstone Winders are Junk



## Rdenney

I have four 4-position and one 2-position Brookstone winders. Last night, the position in which my Zenith rides failed. That makes six positions in total that have failed, and only the 2-position winder is as yet unaffected. 

When they fail, the position becomes freewheelingly loose, so obviously a gear has broken or fallen off. They all fail with the same symptoms. 

These range in age from two to four years old--outside of warranty, but nowhere near a reasonable lifespan (which I would expect to be ten years). Five of the six positions have failed in the last six months. 

It would seem to me that a watch winder does not need to cost what an Orbita costs to last more than two or three years, and these, at $200 each, are not so cheap as to expect such a quick demise. 

I'm strongly tempted to tear the back out of these and do it my way. 

Expect pictures. Grrrrr. 

Rick "a little bit disgusted" Denney


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## fancywatchz

Nearly everything sold by Brookstone is overpriced, made-in-China junk. They must have the largest profit margins ever.

I would consider yourself lucky that they lasted so long!


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## Seaswirl

Touch wood, but mine have been okay. They're a little over two years old and still going strong. Having written this, however, I'm sure they'll crap out tonight. I do like the Wolfs and Oribitas of the world, but there's no way I'm blowing serious watch money on a winder. A bit of the tail wagging the dog.


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## Relo60

Rdenney said:


> I have four 4-position and one 2-position Brookstone winders. Last night, the position in which my Zenith rides failed. That makes six positions in total that have failed, and only the 2-position winder is as yet unaffected.
> 
> When they fail, the position becomes freewheelingly loose, so obviously a gear has broken or fallen off. They all fail with the same symptoms.
> 
> These range in age from two to four years old--outside of warranty, but nowhere near a reasonable lifespan (which I would expect to be ten years). Five of the six positions have failed in the last six months.
> 
> It would seem to me that a watch winder does not need to cost what an Orbita costs to last more than two or three years, and these, at $200 each, are not so cheap as to expect such a quick demise.
> 
> I'm strongly tempted to tear the back out of these and do it my way.
> 
> Expect pictures. Grrrrr.
> 
> Rick "a little bit disgusted" Denney


Thanks for the info and heads up.


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## Raydius

It seems like Wolf makes the best bang for the buck winders that will actually last and can be programmed slow enough to not just keep the watch pegged at full PR.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## islands62

My Orbita is probably 14 years old and has been plugged in and spinning 24/7, 365 in all that time with no failures or even real maintenance. well worth it.


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## Watchbreath

Wolf was producing some schlock about 12 years ago.


Raydius said:


> It seems like Wolf makes the best bang for the buck winders that will actually last and can be programmed slow enough to not just keep the watch pegged at full PR.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Leonine

Sorry for your luck. I've never used these, but not terribly surprised being from brookstone.


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## timefleas

You bought a Brookstone, but were expecting a Wolf (in a sheep's clothing?)--what is most perplexing is your own surprise/indignation.


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## Rdenney

Turns out, the problem is obvious and easy to repair. Lousy iPhone pics, but these show well enough.

First, disassembly. One has to remove the trim panels from the inside, which just peel out.










The holders are held in place with a single Phillips screw in the middle, with the head hidden under a small, black sticker. These do not need to be removed, but it's easier if they are.










(Just a bit of explanation: the shaft holds the watch holder. The two screws below that hold the motor assembly, and the two above hold the control board. These do not need to be removed. The u-shaped device is the position sensor. It's an optical sensor actuated by a pin on the back of the holder. The rotation is controlled by the sensor, so even if it's dragging or jammed, the motor will turn until the holder is again upright.)

The panel is held in place with four screws on each end, covered by black stickers. The panel comes out the front, and one can unplug the power connector which is fixed to the back of the box.










The mechanism includes a motor, connected to a gear-reduction transmission on which the holder is mounted. The connection is a problem--it's a belt. This is the sort of belt used to drive DVD players and the like.




























And the belts are the problem. All of them were damaged, and two were broken.

The belt itself seems to be a SBM4.65, or Square Belt Medium, with a 4.65" circumference. The belt has a 1/16" square section.

I've ordered 20, and hopefully my measurement is right. With shipping, that comes to about $35 from an electronic parts supplier. If that's all it is, I can replace these belts pretty often before spending orders of magnitude more for an Orbita.

When the belt breaks, the motor will turn until you turn it off--remember that optical sensor.

So, pretty easily repaired. A robotics timing belt would have been more reliable, and a chain on sprockets even moreso.

Rick "now, merely annoyed" Denney


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## valmak

aren't you not supposed to use winders anyways? you're wearing down the mechanicals and shortening the time until service for very little benefit. i forgot where i read this but it makes sense.


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## pickle puss

Another solution is to just wind and set the watches as you wear them.I figured this out after a brief period with winders. I found that if I had watches that were keeping great time at about + 5 secs/day and wore them ,in a rotation , for a couple days every 14 days that they were still off by over a minute and I had to reset them anyways despite the fact that they were spinning all that time.


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## skriefal

Rdenney said:


> Turns out, the problem is obvious and easy to repair. Lousy iPhone pics, but these show well enough.
> 
> First, disassembly. One has to remove the trim panels from the inside, which just peel out.
> 
> ...snip...


Thank you. I'm bookmarking this in case my single Brookstone winder fails. So far it's been more reliable than the other cheap winders that I've used in the past.


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## Rdenney

pickle puss said:


> Another solution is to just wind and set the watches as you wear them.I figured this out after a brief period with winders. I found that if I had watches that were keeping great time at about + 5 secs/day and wore them ,in a rotation , for a couple days every 14 days that they were still off by over a minute and I had to reset them anyways despite the fact that they were spinning all that time.


If you think they wear out your watches, don't use them.

I rather doubt that not being on a winder extends the service life much. Oils still dry out. People wear watches for vastly longer that usual service intervals. Wearing a watch very frequently means a lot of hand-winding of automatics, and that gets argues about as much as winders.

Do what you want.

Rick "preferring the convenience" Denney


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## pickle puss

Rdenney said:


> If you think they wear out your watches, don't use them.
> 
> I rather doubt that not being on a winder extends the service life much. Oils still dry out. People wear watches for vastly longer that usual service intervals. Wearing a watch very frequently means a lot of hand-winding of automatics, and that gets argues about as much as winders.
> 
> Do what you want.
> 
> Rick "preferring the convenience" Denney


This addresses valmarks post. Not mine

pickle "if you quote me then answer me" puss


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## dbostedo

Thanks RDenney... This might be helpful for me. I happen to have one of the positions (out of 8) in my Brookstone winders with the same symptoms. I'll probably wait and repair if/when any more positions break.


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## Rdenney

pickle puss said:


> This addresses valmarks post. Not mine
> 
> pickle "if you quote me then answer me" puss


I was responding to both of you. There are other threads that litigate this issue.

Rick "make you own choice" Denney


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## flame2000

One of mine failed too. But instead of buying the square type cassette belt, I chose a rubber o-ring instead (OD 36mm x ID 33mm x 1.5mm). They go for 10pcs for just $1.50. Works perfectly too. And these Nitrile o-rings are temperature and oil resistance, so I expect them to last longer than those cassette o-ring.

It's usually the o-ring that is broken. The motor is a Mabuchi Japanese motor, so I guess it's not that bad.


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## Camera Bill

flame2000 said:


> One of mine failed too. But instead of buying the square type cassette belt, I chose a rubber o-ring instead (OD 36mm x ID 33mm x 1.5mm). They go for 10pcs for just $1.50. Works perfectly too. And these Nitrile o-rings are temperature and oil resistance, so I expect them to last longer than those cassette o-ring.
> 
> It's usually the o-ring that is broken. The motor is a Mabuchi Japanese motor, so I guess it's not that bad.


Can you provide a link where these can be found? My 4 position Brookstone crapped out 5 minutes after the two year warranty expired.
Thanks.


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## Rdenney

Camera Bill said:


> Can you provide a link where these can be found? My 4 position Brookstone crapped out 5 minutes after the two year warranty expired.
> Thanks.


I just bought a pack of 100 from McMaster-Carr for $14. PM me an address and I'll mail you half a dozen when they come in.

I'll do a comparison between Theo-rings and the square belts for longevity, heh.

I got Buna-N o-rings that are supposedly more durable than nitrile.

Rick "who'll start fishing for these in non-working condition" Denney


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## Casey Wai

Rdenney said:


> Turns out, the problem is obvious and easy to repair. Lousy iPhone pics, but these show well enough.
> 
> First, disassembly. One has to remove the trim panels from the inside, which just peel out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The holders are held in place with a single Phillips screw in the middle, with the head hidden under a small, black sticker. These do not need to be removed, but it's easier if they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Just a bit of explanation: the shaft holds the watch holder. The two screws below that hold the motor assembly, and the two above hold the control board. These do not need to be removed. The u-shaped device is the position sensor. It's an optical sensor actuated by a pin on the back of the holder. The rotation is controlled by the sensor, so even if it's dragging or jammed, the motor will turn until the holder is again upright.)
> 
> The panel is held in place with four screws on each end, covered by black stickers. The panel comes out the front, and one can unplug the power connector which is fixed to the back of the box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mechanism includes a motor, connected to a gear-reduction transmission on which the holder is mounted. The connection is a problem--it's a belt. This is the sort of belt used to drive DVD players and the like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the belts are the problem. All of them were damaged, and two were broken.
> 
> The belt itself seems to be a SBM4.65, or Square Belt Medium, with a 4.65" circumference. The belt has a 1/16" square section.
> 
> I've ordered 20, and hopefully my measurement is right. With shipping, that comes to about $35 from an electronic parts supplier. If that's all it is, I can replace these belts pretty often before spending orders of magnitude more for an Orbita.
> 
> When the belt breaks, the motor will turn until you turn it off--remember that optical sensor.
> 
> So, pretty easily repaired. A robotics timing belt would have been more reliable, and a chain on sprockets even moreso.
> 
> Rick "now, merely annoyed" Denney


Hi rick thanks for sharing. I think most cheaper winders work the same way with the rubber belt system. May I know where you ordered the replacement belts? In case mine breaks down I can get the belt replaced as well. Thanks.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## flame2000

Camera Bill said:


> Can you provide a link where these can be found? My 4 position Brookstone crapped out 5 minutes after the two year warranty expired.
> Thanks.


Hi Bill, try this. That's why I bought them from. Price seems to increase a little but still pretty affordable.
10 Pcs 36mm x 1.5mm Rubber O-rings NBR Heat Resistant Sealing Ring Grommets | eBay


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## Rdenney

Casey Wai said:


> Hi rick thanks for sharing. I think most cheaper winders work the same way with the rubber belt system. May I know where you ordered the replacement belts? In case mine breaks down I can get the belt replaced as well. Thanks.


I got O-rings as mentioned by flame2000 from McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com)--they are a large, online industrial supply house. If he provided the correct dimensions, these will work--I have a long-standing supply relationship with McMaster and can vouch for them.

I ordered the square belts from Match A Knob, (www.matchaknob.com), after a google search. I have no idea yet how that will turn out, or whether I measured the belts the way they are supposed to be measured. This my first order from this company.

I will report back here once they arrive and I can test them.

Rick "all the usual disclaimers, etc." Denney


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## Rdenney

Just at tidbit for the archive: The Brookstone Winder model 696641 (which is the topic of this thread) is actually made by Abest Product Resourcing, Inc., in Taiwan. Wholesale only, so forget buying them onesies straight from them.

Unfortunately, they do not provide any technical materials that I've been able to find.

Rick "actually, not terrible construction except for the belt" Denney


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## dbostedo

Rdenney said:


> Just at tidbit for the archive: The Brookstone Winder model 696641 (which is the topic of this thread) is actually made by Abest Product Resourcing, Inc., in Taiwan. Wholesale only, so forget buying them onesies straight from them.
> 
> Unfortunately, they do not provide any technical materials that I've been able to find.
> 
> Rick "actually, not terrible construction except for the belt" Denney


Interesting that the Abest page has this information :

_"...made with improved Belt Driving System, silent and long lasting."_

I wonder how quickly they failed with the old system?


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## Rdenney

dbostedo said:


> Interesting that the Abest page has this information :
> 
> _"...made with improved Belt Driving System, silent and long lasting."_
> 
> I wonder how quickly they failed with the old system?


I saw that, too, and giggled. Of course, they've been making these since 2001--no telling how old those belts were. They probably bought 100,000 of them when they first started production.

Looking at the design, I will be very careful to insert the cushion without turning the motor.

Rick "LOTS of gear reduction" Denney


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## Rdenney

Update: I cannot get it to work predictably using the O-rings as belts. I'm not sure if it's the belts, or something else. Each module is getting power (3.4 volts) but they do not really behave the way they are supposed to. They should rotate when their individual on-off switch is cycled, and they should all start a rotation together when power is cycled. Neither is happening reliably. Two or three modules will rotate as expected when power-cycled, but I cannot get all four to do so. Each one works with the one remaining (barely) usable original belt, though, so I'm wondering if the tightness of the O-ring (and it's rather snug) is causing the startup current on the motor to elevate just enough to drop voltage and reset the electronics.

3.4 volts seems a bit marginal in any case. If the electronics are CMOS, they should work fine on that, but I need to explore further the power distribution, which is just a daisy chain of power connectors from one module to the next. If motor starting is causing a dropout, my digital meter won't see it.

Rick "adopting the clinical approach of waiting to see how the square belts work, when they arrive" Denney


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## flame2000

Rdenney said:


> Update: I cannot get it to work predictably using the O-rings as belts. I'm not sure if it's the belts, or something else. Each module is getting power (3.4 volts) but they do not really behave the way they are supposed to. They should rotate when their individual on-off switch is cycled, and they should all start a rotation together when power is cycled. Neither is happening reliably. Two or three modules will rotate as expected when power-cycled, but I cannot get all four to do so. Each one works with the one remaining (barely) usable original belt, though, *so I'm wondering if the tightness of the O-ring (and it's rather snug)* is causing the startup current on the motor to elevate just enough to drop voltage and reset the electronics.
> 
> 3.4 volts seems a bit marginal in any case. If the electronics are CMOS, they should work fine on that, but I need to explore further the power distribution, which is just a daisy chain of power connectors from one module to the next. If motor starting is causing a dropout, my digital meter won't see it.
> 
> Rick "adopting the clinical approach of waiting to see how the square belts work, when they arrive" Denney


If you remove the o-ring, do all 4 rotate together when turn on? If you put back the o-ring on two of them, do the two of them rotate differently compared to the other two without o-ring? If so, then it's the tightness of the o-ring. These are very low power DC motor so the o-ring should not be too tight.


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## Camera Bill

Received these repair instructions from Brookstone {[email protected] last year (sorry, this is long).

Instructions for Changing the Motor or Belt in a Watch Winder 
There are a few things one should consider when preparing to change out a motor or a belt in one's watch winder. 
1. The process of opening the case may cause damage to the felt linings which we cannot provide. 
2. You will also be removing some black covers over the screws, which we also cannot replace. 
3. If one or more of the winders is not turning, the cause may be a bad motor, a bad band/belt, a bad PCB or a loose connecting cable. Only by opening the case and inspecting the unit in question can you determine which may be the cause, but you still may not be able to determine which one it is for sure, so you may be better off replacing all of these parts to be sure to fix the problem. 
4. Due to the above, if your unit is in warranty, you are better off having it exchanged according to the warranty than trying to repair it yourself. 
5. If your unit is not in warranty, however, please be aware that you may damage the felt lining while removing it, and we cannot provide replacement linings. Even if you manage to remove the lining without damaging it, you may have some difficulty getting it back into place or getting it to adhere properly.

Items you will need: 
1. #2 Phillips Screwdriver 
2. #1 Phillips Screwdriver 
3. Putty Knife or Large Flathead Screwdriver 
4. Tweezers or Needle-Nose Pliers 
5. Glue (optional) to re-adhere the Felt Linings

Opening the Case: 
1. Please note that the wooden case is not designed to be opened, therefore you will need to remove the inner lining in order to access the inner parts. 
2. Remove the watch cushions from all holders. 
3. Using the Tweezers and/or your fingernails, remove the round black sticky pad that covers the screw on the bottom of each holder. 
4. Using the #2 Phillips Screwdriver, remove the screws from each of the holders. 
5. Pull all holders up to remove them. 
6. Using the Tweezers and/or your fingernails, remove the round black sticky pads that cover the screws along the side walls. Depending on your winder model, there may be up to four screws on each side. 
7. Using the #1 Phillips Screwdriver, remove these screws. 
8. Using the Putty Knife or Flathead Screwdriver, carefully peel off the front and back felt liners and at least one of the side liners. Set the liners aside in such a way that the glue will not be compromised. 
9. Determine with motor(s) you need to check and/or exchange. Using the #2 Phillips Screwdriver, remove the two screws (round head) that hold the motor(s) to the base. With the front of the unit facing you and the lid opened to the back, these will be the two screws nearest you. 
10. Push down on the motor spindle with the screwdriver to drop it out of place. 
11. Insert the screwdriver into the hole, and use it to pry the base up and slightly out of the wooden case. Do not lift it too far, however, as this will pull the power connector cable loose.

Inspection: 
1. In order to determine the cause of the winder not working properly, you will need to operate it and observe it. 
2. Plug the AC Adapter into a power outlet and into the power port on the back of your unit. 
3. Be sure the winder unit in question is turned on. 
4. If the motor is turning, and it is turning the winder spindle, then the respective winder unit is okay. 
5. If the motor is turning, but the winder spindle is not, then you only need to replace the band/belt as it may have stretched out. You may order a replacement band through us, or you may simply replace it with a similarly sized rubber band. 
6. If the motor is not turning, check to be sure all connector cables are firmly connected. 
7. If all cables are firmly in place, and the motor is not turning, chances are the motor itself may have gone bad, but there is also a possibility that the corresponding PCB may have gone bad. In order to ensure that you resolve the issue, it would be wise to replace both the motor and the PCB. You may even want to play it safe and also replace the power connector cable to the PCB. 
8. When ordering replacement parts, be sure to note the color of your motor and the four-digit number on the PCB to be replaced. 
9. Until you receive your replacement parts, however, it would be wise to leave these parts in the unit so you can see how they are connected when you get ready to install the new ones.

Replacing a motor and/or PCB: 
1. Once you receive your replacement parts, you are ready to replace them. 
2. It would be wise to take a few pictures so that you have something to refer to when connecting the new parts. However, if you are careful, you can do this without a picture. 
3. First, start by disconnecting the original motor by pulling the motor wire loose from the PCB. 
4. Next, connect the new motor to the same port on the PCB. Test the new motor as before. 
5. If it works, then the issue was with your original motor, and there is no need to change out the PCB or power connecting cable. You should dispose of the original motor and proceed to reassembly instructions. 
6. If the motor does not operate, then the issue may not have been with your original motor. Hang on to it to have for a spare in case one fails later. 
7. Now you need to replace the PCB in question. First, be sure to either take a picture or leave all the cables connected so you know what goes where. 
8. Using the #2 Phillips Screwdriver, loosen the flat-headed screws that hold the PCB in place. 
9. Use your fingers to hold the hex nuts still, then finish unscrewing until the nuts come off. Be careful not to let the PCB fall loose just yet as there are other small parts (spacers) that my fall loose as well. 
10. Once the nuts are removed, you may pull the PCB off, being careful to keep the screws and spacers in place. 
11. Put the new PCB in place and replace the nuts. Tighten snugly, but do not overtighten. 
12. Next, remove one cable at a time from the old PCB and connect it to the corresponding port on the new PCB. Once the last cable has been changed out, you may set aside the original PCB. 
13. Again, test the winder as before. If it works, then the issue was with your original PCB. You should dispose of the original PCB. 
14. It would be wise to go ahead and reconnect your original motor at this point to see if it now works. If so, you should keep it as a spare in case one of your motors fails later. 
15. If the unit is now operating, you are ready to proceed to the reassembly instructions. 
16. If the unit is still not working, try replacing the power connector cable between the PCB in question and the preceding PCB (the one to the left of the PCB in question). If this fails to get the unit working, you should take the entire assembly and all parts to a qualified electrician or repair center.

Reassembly: 
1. Once you have your unit working properly again, you are ready to put it all back together. 
2. First, put the motor back into the base by inserting the spindle through the hole, pushing it in until it is firmly against the base, and replace the screws that hold it in. 
3. Put the base back in place inside the case and test the unit one more time to ensure that nothing has come loose in the process thus far. If any of the winder units isn't working, pull the base back up and check all connections. 
4. If all units are working properly, replace the small screws that hold the base in place. 
5. Next, replace the felt linings. You may need to use additional glue to re-adhere them. 
6. Replace the holders over the spindles and tighten the screws snugly. 
7. Replace the watch cushions. 
8. Be sure to store any spare parts where you will remember where they are. Sorry, but we cannot take back any watch winder parts for refund.


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## Camera Bill

Rdenney said:


> I just bought a pack of 100 from McMaster-Carr for $14. PM me an address and I'll mail you half a dozen when they come in.
> 
> I'll do a comparison between Theo-rings and the square belts for longevity, heh.
> 
> I got Buna-N o-rings that are supposedly more durable than nitrile.
> 
> Rick "who'll start fishing for these in non-working condition" Denney


Thanks for the offer but it sounds like you're still troubleshooting?
I solved the problem with my Brookstone. I bought a Wolf. :-d


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## Rdenney

Camera Bill said:


> Received these repair instructions from Brookstone {[email protected] last year (sorry, this is long).
> 
> Instructions for Changing the Motor or Belt in a Watch Winder
> There are a few things one should consider when preparing to change out a motor or a belt in one's watch winder.
> 1. The process of opening the case may cause damage to the felt linings which we cannot provide.
> 2. You will also be removing some black covers over the screws, which we also cannot replace.
> 3. If one or more of the winders is not turning, the cause may be a bad motor, a bad band/belt, a bad PCB or a loose connecting cable. Only by opening the case and inspecting the unit in question can you determine which may be the cause, but you still may not be able to determine which one it is for sure, so you may be better off replacing all of these parts to be sure to fix the problem.
> 4. Due to the above, if your unit is in warranty, you are better off having it exchanged according to the warranty than trying to repair it yourself.
> 5. If your unit is not in warranty, however, please be aware that you may damage the felt lining while removing it, and we cannot provide replacement linings. Even if you manage to remove the lining without damaging it, you may have some difficulty getting it back into place or getting it to adhere properly.
> 
> Items you will need:
> 1. #2 Phillips Screwdriver
> 2. #1 Phillips Screwdriver
> 3. Putty Knife or Large Flathead Screwdriver
> 4. Tweezers or Needle-Nose Pliers
> 5. Glue (optional) to re-adhere the Felt Linings
> 
> Opening the Case:
> 1. Please note that the wooden case is not designed to be opened, therefore you will need to remove the inner lining in order to access the inner parts.
> 2. Remove the watch cushions from all holders.
> 3. Using the Tweezers and/or your fingernails, remove the round black sticky pad that covers the screw on the bottom of each holder.
> 4. Using the #2 Phillips Screwdriver, remove the screws from each of the holders.
> 5. Pull all holders up to remove them.
> 6. Using the Tweezers and/or your fingernails, remove the round black sticky pads that cover the screws along the side walls. Depending on your winder model, there may be up to four screws on each side.
> 7. Using the #1 Phillips Screwdriver, remove these screws.
> 8. Using the Putty Knife or Flathead Screwdriver, carefully peel off the front and back felt liners and at least one of the side liners. Set the liners aside in such a way that the glue will not be compromised.
> 9. Determine with motor(s) you need to check and/or exchange. Using the #2 Phillips Screwdriver, remove the two screws (round head) that hold the motor(s) to the base. With the front of the unit facing you and the lid opened to the back, these will be the two screws nearest you.
> 10. Push down on the motor spindle with the screwdriver to drop it out of place.
> 11. Insert the screwdriver into the hole, and use it to pry the base up and slightly out of the wooden case. Do not lift it too far, however, as this will pull the power connector cable loose.
> 
> Inspection:
> 1. In order to determine the cause of the winder not working properly, you will need to operate it and observe it.
> 2. Plug the AC Adapter into a power outlet and into the power port on the back of your unit.
> 3. Be sure the winder unit in question is turned on.
> 4. If the motor is turning, and it is turning the winder spindle, then the respective winder unit is okay.
> 5. If the motor is turning, but the winder spindle is not, then you only need to replace the band/belt as it may have stretched out. You may order a replacement band through us, or you may simply replace it with a similarly sized rubber band.
> 6. If the motor is not turning, check to be sure all connector cables are firmly connected.
> 7. If all cables are firmly in place, and the motor is not turning, chances are the motor itself may have gone bad, but there is also a possibility that the corresponding PCB may have gone bad. In order to ensure that you resolve the issue, it would be wise to replace both the motor and the PCB. You may even want to play it safe and also replace the power connector cable to the PCB.
> 8. When ordering replacement parts, be sure to note the color of your motor and the four-digit number on the PCB to be replaced.
> 9. Until you receive your replacement parts, however, it would be wise to leave these parts in the unit so you can see how they are connected when you get ready to install the new ones.
> 
> Replacing a motor and/or PCB:
> 1. Once you receive your replacement parts, you are ready to replace them.
> 2. It would be wise to take a few pictures so that you have something to refer to when connecting the new parts. However, if you are careful, you can do this without a picture.
> 3. First, start by disconnecting the original motor by pulling the motor wire loose from the PCB.
> 4. Next, connect the new motor to the same port on the PCB. Test the new motor as before.
> 5. If it works, then the issue was with your original motor, and there is no need to change out the PCB or power connecting cable. You should dispose of the original motor and proceed to reassembly instructions.
> 6. If the motor does not operate, then the issue may not have been with your original motor. Hang on to it to have for a spare in case one fails later.
> 7. Now you need to replace the PCB in question. First, be sure to either take a picture or leave all the cables connected so you know what goes where.
> 8. Using the #2 Phillips Screwdriver, loosen the flat-headed screws that hold the PCB in place.
> 9. Use your fingers to hold the hex nuts still, then finish unscrewing until the nuts come off. Be careful not to let the PCB fall loose just yet as there are other small parts (spacers) that my fall loose as well.
> 10. Once the nuts are removed, you may pull the PCB off, being careful to keep the screws and spacers in place.
> 11. Put the new PCB in place and replace the nuts. Tighten snugly, but do not overtighten.
> 12. Next, remove one cable at a time from the old PCB and connect it to the corresponding port on the new PCB. Once the last cable has been changed out, you may set aside the original PCB.
> 13. Again, test the winder as before. If it works, then the issue was with your original PCB. You should dispose of the original PCB.
> 14. It would be wise to go ahead and reconnect your original motor at this point to see if it now works. If so, you should keep it as a spare in case one of your motors fails later.
> 15. If the unit is now operating, you are ready to proceed to the reassembly instructions.
> 16. If the unit is still not working, try replacing the power connector cable between the PCB in question and the preceding PCB (the one to the left of the PCB in question). If this fails to get the unit working, you should take the entire assembly and all parts to a qualified electrician or repair center.
> 
> Reassembly:
> 1. Once you have your unit working properly again, you are ready to put it all back together.
> 2. First, put the motor back into the base by inserting the spindle through the hole, pushing it in until it is firmly against the base, and replace the screws that hold it in.
> 3. Put the base back in place inside the case and test the unit one more time to ensure that nothing has come loose in the process thus far. If any of the winder units isn't working, pull the base back up and check all connections.
> 4. If all units are working properly, replace the small screws that hold the base in place.
> 5. Next, replace the felt linings. You may need to use additional glue to re-adhere them.
> 6. Replace the holders over the spindles and tighten the screws snugly.
> 7. Replace the watch cushions.
> 8. Be sure to store any spare parts where you will remember where they are. Sorry, but we cannot take back any watch winder parts for refund.


Thanks for that. But I call their diagnostic procedure "replace stuff until it works", and I will try some different approaches.

I am reasonably sure I have a voltage problem, which can be both investigated and corrected. I just need some quality time with a DVM, and a second unit disassembled and tested.

It's not the belts, though. The square belts I ordered are slightly too large, but still provide good enough grip. But they operate the same as the O-rings. And given the instructions above, which suggest a rubber band, clearly the belts are not critical.

But I'm not going to be able to mess with this for a couple of weeks.

Rick "more to come in the fullness of time" Denney


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## Rdenney

I finally got a moment to spend with the winder I had taken apart. Turns out, the on-off switches are flaky. I cannot for the life of me figure out why three would fail just from me taking it apart, but there it is. When they are jumpered to bypass the switch, operation is perfect with the cheap O-rings, and they have restored the original quietness. The square belts I bought were slightly too large. 

I'm testing it with my heaviest watches. 

Rick "who will pull the power plug if it needs to be turned off" Denney


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## dbostedo

Did you get a chance to examine the switches? Is it possible something is just loose? Or are they actually broken?


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## Rdenney

dbostedo said:


> Did you get a chance to examine the switches? Is it possible something is just loose? Or are they actually broken?


These are push-on-push-off plastic switches that snap together and are not designed to be serviceable. One leg has power, as expected, and the leads from the switch to the board are randomly oriented on the terminals. But I really have no idea why disassembly of the winder would cause three of them to fail--something I obviously don't understand about how it works. Winder working today as expected with the three failed positions jumpered.

Rick "who'll remove one and take it apart some day" Denney


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## flame2000

Rdenney said:


> I finally got a moment to spend with the winder I had taken apart. Turns out, the on-off switches are flaky. I cannot for the life of me figure out why three would fail just from me taking it apart, but there it is. When they are jumpered to bypass the switch, operation is perfect with the cheap O-rings, and they have restored the original quietness. The square belts I bought were slightly too large.
> 
> I'm testing it with my heaviest watches.
> 
> Rick "who will pull the power plug if it needs to be turned off" Denney


I am glad you got it working. Save you some money buying a new winder.


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## Rdenney

That one winder was the only one with the switch problem, and it is working fine with the power switches bypassed. I replaced the belts in the other three quad winders without that problem, so I still don't know what caused the switches to be flaky. I now have winder space for 18 watches fully restored. 

The last unit (to measure the most practiced repair) took 20 minutes to peel off the lining, remove the 8 screws holding in the panel, lift the panel out, replace the belts, and reassemble. 

Rick "project complete" Denney


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## Rdenney

Latest: one of the o-rings fatigued and broke. I changed that winder to the loose-fitting square belts I bought. They seem to fit the same as the unbroken originals, whereas the o-rings had to be stretched slightly. If the square belts are reliable, I'll post the spec.

Rick "sigh" Denney


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## Rdenney

I have tried two sizes of square belts, but the looser one is the correct one. Stretching a belt around that small motor pulley will cause hysteresis and fatigue. O-rings don't last.

This belt works reliably and does not require stretching, even though it seems loose: SBM4.65. This stands for "Square Belt Medium 4.65 inches length". It is available from Allstate Electronics and Match-a-knob. I've seen prices ranging from 85 cents to six bucks, but those two are reasonable. Match-a-knob has reliably had it in stock, but they are a bit more than Allstate.

https://www.matchaknob.com/belts/sbm4.65/

http://allstate-electronics.com/sbm-belts/535-sbm-173.html

The metric size is 37 x 1.6, but searching on that turns up nothing.



















Rick "who has seen four O-rings fail since installing them upthread" Denney


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## dbostedo

Thanks Rick! I still have 2 of 8 spots that need fixing. But will probably order a few belts for future use. I appreciate you sharing your results.


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## fourthirteen

Yeah, thanks for the research and info Rick.
I ended up ordering the SBM4.6 belts from https://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/cdlasers.htm. Received them within 4 business days and they work great so far...they look and fit just like the originals.

Seems like price ended up being about the same, about $3/belt, for all of the websites after adding shipping...the sites with cheaper per-belt prices had higher shipping.
Thanks again.


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## swymor

Anybody know the model number of the Mabuchi motor used in these Brookstone winders? One of my motors works fine after belt replacement the other one just doesn't have enough torque and I think it's failing. I tried lubricating with just a drop of 100% synthetic sewing machine oil and it spins silently if I give it a push. However, if I put two fingers around the shaft it will immediately stop whereas the other motor keeps chugging along. It also will not rotate from a cold start without some assistance. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## olavii

RF-500TB-12560


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## scottcolbath

Rdenney said:


> These are push-on-push-off plastic switches that snap together and are not designed to be serviceable. One leg has power, as expected, and the leads from the switch to the board are randomly oriented on the terminals. But I really have no idea why disassembly of the winder would cause three of them to fail--something I obviously don't understand about how it works. Winder working today as expected with the three failed positions jumpered.
> 
> Rick "who'll remove one and take it apart some day" Denney


One of the four on my winder was acting wonky, so I hit it with electronic contact cleaner/spray. I just shot it right in the gap between the button and the seat of the button. It's a tiny gap, but the spray gets in there.

Problem solved.

BTW, I still have one of the four positions which does nothing at all. I'm contemplating the total surgery outlined here. Haven't taken the plunge just yet.

S.C.


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## dbostedo

A couple of weeks ago I took both of mine apart as a couple of the slots had quit working, and replaced all of the belts. Went fine, although since the liners are basically held in with double sided paper tape, they are a little wonky now since I didn't want to bother to re-tape them and make them look perfect again. You'd never notice at a glance though. 

One odd note... the far left pod in one of them made some soft clicks and noise - not loud, but loud enough that I could hear it when in bed, and couldn't hear the others. A little debug revealed it was the way the power cord had tucked back in, even though I still couldn't quite figure out the noise. Getting the cord to fold back into the housing differently fixed it though.


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## JDMLS430

These belts seen to fail often. I have a brookstone and a heiden watch winder. They are both same. I've had to replace one of the belts and use a rubber band. But now I'll order a couple spares when the others fail


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