# Vacheron Constantin - all things related



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Thread for all things Vacheron


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Distribution strategy and pricing (value) aside. I think they're producing some amazing timepieces on the high end


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

I daresay, I think this VC has a nicer movement compared to Patek's split second


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## Maviarab (Aug 3, 2021)

Hope this thread flourishes (and surprised there isn't one already), following.


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## michael8238 (Sep 13, 2015)

Caliber 3500 is one amazing looking movement...and the thinnest split second movement to date.


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## Perazzi-man (Oct 14, 2014)

I like the peripheral rotor. My 4500v is my everyday watch.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

Maviarab said:


> Hope this thread flourishes (and surprised there isn't one already), following.


There's an Overseas specific thread but not one for Vacheron in general.








Vacheron Constantin Overseas


Hey guys checking to see your thoughts about this one. VC Overseas 4500V/110A-B126 I love the look of this watch and the 3 straps that come with it. Gives a great option to mix it up a bit. My question is does anything else come to mind in that price range that you experts might recommend...




www.watchuseek.com


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

zztopops said:


> Distribution strategy and pricing (value) aside. I think they're producing some amazing timepieces on the high end


They're still considered the black sheep and everyone wants AP and Patek as their primary choices. VC has a ton of sleepers in the lineup that haven't (yet) been destroyed by the hype machine.

Many still crap on the Overseas because of small details here and there, which I can understand. The typeface choice on the date disc in a 4500V is a bit embarrassing. I'd rather the numbers fill the window better and maybe match the dial like in a modern AP RO. But, their dials are spectacular in person, bracelets are comfortable and have actual adjustments, and movement finishing is up there with the rest. For someone who doesn't focus primarily on hype, VC is still a solid choice.

Personally, I'm glad they haven't caught on better as it saves more for enthusiasts. This is always a double-edged sword.


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## olske59 (May 26, 2019)

Perazzi-man said:


> I like the peripheral rotor. My 4500v is my everyday watch.


I thought that Bucherer was the only company with a mass-produced peripheral rotor movement. The VC looks fantastic!


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

olske59 said:


> I thought that Bucherer was the only company with a mass-produced peripheral rotor movement. The VC looks fantastic!


To be fair, VC only made 15 pieces total of the 5400T. Retail price was circa $285k. I'm not sure that qualifies in the mass-produced category.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

Am pining for a Patrimony Minute Repeater. Handled (and heard) one in Vienna and was mesmerized. Maybe someday.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

37 said:


> To be fair, VC only made 15 pieces total of the 5400T. Retail price was circa $285k. I'm not sure that qualifies in the mass-produced category.


Produced for large mass of money? 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

37 said:


> They're still considered the black sheep and everyone wants AP and Patek as their primary choices. VC has a ton of sleepers in the lineup that haven't (yet) been destroyed by the hype machine.
> 
> Many still crap on the Overseas because of small details here and there, which I can understand. The typeface choice on the date disc in a 4500V is a bit embarrassing. I'd rather the numbers fill the window better and maybe match the dial like in a modern AP RO. But, their dials are spectacular in person, bracelets are comfortable and have actual adjustments, and movement finishing is up there with the rest. For someone who doesn't focus primarily on hype, VC is still a solid choice.
> 
> Personally, I'm glad they haven't caught on better as it saves more for enthusiasts. This is always a double-edged sword.


The font is a little skinny for the date 
The non hacking movement is a bit weird for a new movement yet doesn’t bother me 
But sooo many other positives 
Interestingly nuf I don’t care much for PP and wouldn’t mind an AP


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

manofrolex said:


> The font is a little skinny for the date
> The non hacking movement is a bit weird for a new movement yet doesn’t bother me
> But sooo many other positives
> Interestingly nuf I don’t care much for PP and wouldn’t mind an AP


The date font is probably my only major gripe on the 4500V. The rest is almost all positive.

I've grown to appreciate the lack of hacking. It is weird not to have it but on the flip side it's still easy to set the time and get the minute hand to hit the mark at zero. It's almost faster this way.

Adding an AP would keep you in the circle of trust. Thumbs up on that. I'd like one myself.


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## Patek1 (Jan 14, 2021)

Love VC, only issue is the fiftysix, should have never come out with this line...trying to broaden their audience at the expense of their main clients.


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## ChetBaker (Nov 1, 2018)

Don’t agree on the 56 In general. Do agree if you mean the 56 date only. That watch is an abomination and should never have seen the light of day.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Would totally commission something like this if I had the $$$. Just a stunning creation - it's covers all the bases of watchmaking, artistry and some. 

Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Westminster Sonnerie – Tribute to Johannes Vermeer


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

zztopops said:


> Would totally commission something like this if I had the $$$. Just a stunning creation - it's covers all the bases of watchmaking, artistry and some.
> 
> Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Westminster Sonnerie – Tribute to Johannes Vermeer
> 
> ...


I feel like I posted this somewhere before... but I'd MUCH prefer it with some original artwork, rather than a small copy of something existing. Tribute to the artist or not, that seems cheesy to me. 

But HOLY COW.... that movement!


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## OogieBoogie (Oct 3, 2021)

dbostedo said:


> ... I'd MUCH prefer it with some original artwork, rather than a small copy of something existing. Tribute to the artist or not, that seems cheesy to me.


I get where you're coming from, but it's an incredible copy. Maybe if it wasn't such an instantly recognisable image.

I bought Mrs Oogie a VC for Xmas, the unfortunate consequence of that was her looking up their range and requesting the below if we win the lottery. To be fair, I've not seen anything like it before. It's not just their movements that are creative and beautiful.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

OogieBoogie said:


> I bought Mrs Oogie a VC for Xmas


OMG! That's a stunning VC!


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

dbostedo said:


> But HOLY COW.... that movement!


Yeah definitely gives this Paul Gerber creation a run for the money, albeit with more real estate to work with.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

michael8238 said:


> Caliber 3500.. the thinnest split second movement to date.


Did not know this, definitely an added bonus. Seems like VC historically has favored thin movements? i.e the use of JLC cal. 920 for their perpetual calendar back in the day


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

OogieBoogie said:


> I get where you're coming from, but it's an incredible copy. Maybe if it wasn't such an instantly recognisable image.
> 
> I bought Mrs Oogie a VC for Xmas, the unfortunate consequence of that was her looking up their range and requesting the below if we win the lottery. To be fair, I've not seen anything like it before. It's not just their movements that are creative and beautiful.
> View attachment 16365973


Stunner of a unique design. What year is this from? How does the top layer move to reveal the watch face below?


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## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

zztopops said:


> Yeah definitely gives this Paul Gerber creation a run for the money, albeit with more real estate to work with.
> View attachment 16366032


My stomach sinks thinking of the service work and cost. Yikes!


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

Robotaz said:


> My stomach sinks thinking of the service work and cost. Yikes!


That's OK... if you could afford the watch, even 6 figure service costs would probably not be a big deal.


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## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

dbostedo said:


> That's OK... if you could afford the watch, even 6 figure service costs would probably not be a big deal.


I sold an inherited VC among others to fund engineering school because I couldn’t afford the service. Even though I can now, it just seems like a waste of money. I guess even I have my limits when it comes to burning money on watches.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

Robotaz said:


> I sold an inherited VC among others to fund engineering school because I couldn’t afford the service. Even though I can now, it just seems like a waste of money. I guess even I have my limits when it comes to burning money on watches.


How is it different than servicing a car? Or, do you sell cars before reaching major service intervals? Many seem to do that with watches which is why I ask. An older HH brand might be cheap to buy used but could be due for an expensive service. Or as with Patek, expensive and lengthy.

Service on a VC typically isn't bad compared to other brands. Gen 3 Overseas stainless models are around $1250 for a service. Rolex currently is around $800~900 for a basic model or $1200-1700 for a Daytona, Day-Date, Yacht-Master II, or Sky-Dweller.


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## NightScar (Sep 4, 2008)

two VCs id love to own today would be the traditionelle small seconds and the midsize 1921


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## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

37 said:


> How is it different than servicing a car? Or, do you sell cars before reaching major service intervals? Many seem to do that with watches which is why I ask. An older HH brand might be cheap to buy used but could be due for an expensive service. Or as with Patek, expensive and lengthy.
> 
> Service on a VC typically isn't bad compared to other brands. Gen 3 Overseas stainless models are around $1250 for a service. Rolex currently is around $800~900 for a basic model or $1200-1700 for a Daytona, Day-Date, Yacht-Master II, or Sky-Dweller.


It’s different because it’s a watch, an ornament on your wrist, costing over $1000 to service, and a car is transportation that humans need, and service is $50.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

Robotaz said:


> It’s different because it’s a watch, an ornament on your wrist, costing over $1000 to service, and a car is transportation that humans need, and service is $50.


Major service intervals on a car are more than $50. I'm talking belts, hoses, plugs, coils if needed, coolant/brake/transmission fluids, filters, etc. and not just a simple oil change. Service intervals at 50k/60k/100k miles, for example, and similar to what you'd see with a watch when it reaches 5-10 years of use.


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## jo2hab (Jun 14, 2021)

zztopops said:


> Would totally commission something like this if I had the $$$. Just a stunning creation - it's covers all the bases of watchmaking, artistry and some.


Good lord, that is truly stunning. It's a controversial opinion, but I would love it if more manufacturers decorated their cases like on this VC, or like on the Grandmaster Chime. Some find it tacky, but I like the look.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

Robotaz said:


> It’s different because it’s a watch, an ornament on your wrist, costing over $1000 to service, and a car is transportation that humans need, and service is $50.


It depends on the car. Most owners of HH watches (plural), drive cars for other reasons, too, and pay more than $50/5 years (the interval between watch services) .

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## OogieBoogie (Oct 3, 2021)

37 said:


> Stunner of a unique design. What year is this from? How does the top layer move to reveal the watch face below?


It's on their current Heures Créatives range, called Heures Discrète. Slightly above my pay grade. The fan slides across.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

OogieBoogie said:


> It's on their current Heures Créatives range, called Heures Discrète. Slightly above my pay grade. The fan slides across.


Seeing it from an angle helped, thank you. From the photos straight on I couldn’t see any break lines or a pivot point.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

This is fun. Dufour makes a cameo.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

37 said:


> This is fun. Dufour makes a cameo.


Thanks! And now the real question... when will Cincy buy it? 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## OogieBoogie (Oct 3, 2021)

Nice to see the archives that they go to for the extract, I noticed both the case and movement number together in the margin.


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## matt233 (Dec 16, 2018)

NightScar said:


> traditionelle small seconds


That model wasn't on my radar, but OMG it is beautiful.


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## matt233 (Dec 16, 2018)

Why is Vacheron the most underappreciated of the big 3? I've liked the brand since I've been collecting. But I feel like doesn't get as much attention as it deserves. My theory is that they don't have a "tent pole" model. AP has the Royal Oak & Offshore. Patek has Nautilus, Perpetual Calendar Chronographs, and the Calatrava (maybe not a tent pole, but one of the watches that defines the brand IMO). Seems like Vacheron hasn't tried to chase this strategy (or hasn't been successful). Any other thoughts?


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## NightScar (Sep 4, 2008)

Ive always viewed the overseas as their "tent pole" model, their most recognizable icon and its no coincidence its their entry for the integrated case battle

but i think the issue with the overseas is it doesnt have as long of a history as the "overseas" and it evolved a bit too much while the royal oak and nautilus pretty much looks the same for decades, they are easily recognizable

the overseas is the youngest being technically released in the 90s, hell even the Hublot porthole design was born in the 80s iirc

but design-wise:

a look at the Nautilus 3700 from the 70s and its very close to the 5711 today, the case, bezel, dial/index and bracelet are pretty much the same









the same from the royal oak from the 70s, anyone knows thats the royal oak









in both those cases, wearing a new one and an old one is almost indistinguishable to the general public

on the other hand the VC 222 that the overseas was based off looks like this, very different from the overseas we know today









then in 1996 they officialy came out as the overseas and its a big departure from the 222 it was based on









then it evolved in 2004 where the bracelet, dial/index and date position changed










and evolved again in 2016 to the overseas we know today with a new dial/index and date position changed










but to me, maybe because AP and PP has managed to make icnrement changes and updates to the RO and Nautilus but it doesnt look dated to my eyes, its consistent while the original VC 222 looks very dated with that bezel then the 96 overseas also looks older with the branding and bracelet and then make big changes...

marketing also plays a big part, you see AP sponsoring actors, athletes, musicians, etc... patek kind of rode their highs and stirred into it by supposedly discontinuing the 5711 and then releasing the green ones and then the tiffany which pretty much got everyone talking

i do not really hear from VC too much unless you're more into watches


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

Perhaps that’s why VC released the Everest models since tent poles were literally involved there. 

Jokes aside, I like that VC isn’t on as many radars as Patek and AP. We’ll see how things look in another year or two but something tells me everyone will still be primarily focused on Patek and AP for stainless.


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## NightScar (Sep 4, 2008)

AP and PP are definitely still gon eb the hype machines especially with the RO 50th this year and the successor for the 5711 bein ghighly anticipated and still be impossible to get

VC is catching up though, at least the overseas and I guess the best way to get the hype going is making some of them boutique exclusive which i believe the blue dial is, they're going for a $10k+ premium on the grey market these days

as for me, the regular overseas is simply too big for my small wrist and why i never considered it, i had several chance to buy it over the year even before the hype

i prefer the 37mm because i prefer it having no date as well but i wish the second hand was on the 6o'clock or just gone away with it and kept it a clean dial but overall though id rather get the 37mm RO


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

NightScar said:


> i prefer the 37mm because i prefer it having no date as well but i wish the second hand was on the 6o'clock or just gone away with it and kept it a clean dial but overall though id rather get the 37mm RO


You might grab a Gen 1 Overseas before they get out of hand, specifically a 42042 since it has a 37mm case and the newest movement available in that model. The design language is love or hate, but lately I've been growing to appreciate them more. The white/silver dial is guilloche and quite unique.

Watches & Wonders is also just around the corner. We can hope for new announcements there.


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## NightScar (Sep 4, 2008)

i saw a 42042 a month or so ago on C24 for $30k and for that price (or close to it) im just gon wait for the 15450


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

NightScar said:


> i saw a 42042 a month or so ago on C24 for $30k and for that price (or close to it) im just gon wait for the 15450


I'm still seeing them in the $13~18k range depending on condition and what's included. C24 pricing is usually astronomical.

But, if you're in the queue for a 15450 at retail then that's a solid way to go.


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## NightScar (Sep 4, 2008)

well they say im on queue but who really knows what that means at this point 😂 

if VC cleans up the 37mm overseas or make it symmetrical, then i’ll be in line the next day to order one


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

37 said:


> Jokes aside I like that VC isn’t on as many radars as Patek and AP. We’ll see how things look in another year or two but something tells me everyone will still be primarily focused on Patek and AP for stainless.


And that is for the better ….
Called for dual time yes sir on list will be 12 to 18 months maybe sooner . Thanks 
Very nice call very professional and I didn’t even have to dance


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## greedy (Dec 19, 2017)

VC warranty extended to 8 years.
Encompasses current watches less than 2 years old


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

greedy said:


> VC warranty extended to 8 years.
> Encompasses current watches less than 2 years old


Yup. Have to register your watch to get it. Here's the link for anyone interested:


https://services.vacheron-constantin.com/


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## OogieBoogie (Oct 3, 2021)

matt233 said:


> Why is Vacheron the most underappreciated of the big 3? I've liked the brand since I've been collecting. But I feel like doesn't get as much attention as it deserves.


Ssshh! The last thing I want is for everyone to jump on the bandwagon. Yes the values will increase, but you know, "There goes the neighbourhood...!"



NightScar said:


> ...but i think the issue with the overseas is it have as long of a history as the "overseas" and it evolved a bit too much while the royal oak and nautilus pretty much looks the same for decades, they are easily recognizable


But hasn't this always been the way for VC? I remember having a conversation with a dealer who remarked that during the 40s/50s they only made a couple of dozen of any combination of model+ case+ movement, which added to the exclusivity. So even if you owned a 'basic' model it was still special.


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## tyyreaun (Mar 23, 2021)

olske59 said:


> I thought that Bucherer was the only company with a mass-produced peripheral rotor movement. The VC looks fantastic!


Piaget's 910P is peripheral as well, albeit visible from the front of the watch.


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## tyyreaun (Mar 23, 2021)

Love me some Vacheron. Unfortunately I can't justify any of their dress models right now - otherwise I'd be getting an American 1921 first thing. I did, however, just place an order for this:












Silver-dial Fifty Six plus ordering the bracelet to go with it (not normally available together - the picture is my mockup in Photoshop). The Overseas just didn't do it for me, and I can live without the Geneva Seal.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

I am happy VC is receiving more attention as a result of the recent SS sport watch spillover interest in the Overseas. However I do hope VC does not devolve into a one watch discussion as we've seen with PP and AP. No offense to Overseas owners.


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## dinexus (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm honestly a little surprised to hear people saying that the hype hasn't caught VC yet, when the Everest sold out before it was even announced, the blue-dialed model is boutique only (and trading nearly 2x above retail) and the rest of the collection is more or less waitlisted.

I will say though that the Everest hype was justified – it's an absolute knockout.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

zztopops said:


> I am happy VC is receiving more attention as a result of the recent SS sport watch spillover interest in the Overseas. However I do hope VC does not devolve into a one watch discussion as we've seen with PP and AP. No offense to Overseas owners.


Agreed. We also need to discuss the pink gold and white gold Overseas models. 😁

This makes me wonder what the future watch buyer will look like. Stainless sports watches are the easiest to wear as we shift to more casual dress and some working from home with no daily office environment. Will highly complicated, expensive dress watches be in demand for much longer? Complicated sports models still seem reasonably strong, even if expensive, but there we're back to talking Overseas again.

I don't see VC going the path of AP in becoming the "Royal Oak Watch Company" or the path of Patek in becoming the "Buy our complicated dress watches so you qualify for the lottery chance at a stainless reference" company. I like that when you want to buy a VC of your choice, you can generally get it so long as you're patient. As long as that doesn't change then the brand experience should remain positive.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

dinexus said:


> I will say though that the Everest hype was justified – it's an absolute knockout.


The Overseas unfortunately is too large for my wrist but have to admit I absolutely love the Everest and would get it even if its too large for me (I think).


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

37 said:


> I don't see VC going the path of AP in becoming the "Royal Oak Watch Company" or the path of Patek in becoming the "Buy our complicated dress watches so you qualify for the lottery chance at a stainless reference" company. I like that when you want to buy a VC of your choice, you can generally get it so long as you're patient. As long as that doesn't change then the brand experience should remain positive.


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## dinexus (Nov 18, 2012)

37 said:


> This makes me wonder what the future watch buyer will look like. Stainless sports watches are the easiest to wear as we shift to more casual dress and some working from home with no daily office environment. Will highly complicated, expensive dress watches be in demand for much longer? Complicated sports models still seem reasonably strong, even if expensive, but there we're back to talking Overseas again.


I get a sense that dress watches will be back in style soon enough. Everything is cyclical, and once everyone’s had their fill of the sporty stuff, those thin, time-only precious metal references will again have their day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

jo2hab said:


> but I would love it if more manufacturers decorated their cases like on this VC, or like on the Grandmaster Chime. Some find it tacky, but I like the look.


+1

This Les Cabinotiers Grande Complication Bacchus' case decoration is pretty over the top but I'd totally wear this! Depending on my mood I can exude Russian oligarch, mafioso in track suit, Shanghai tycoon or rapper mogul vibes. So versatile (and I'm not kidding)


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## NightScar (Sep 4, 2008)

dinexus said:


> I'm honestly a little surprised to hear people saying that the hype hasn't caught VC yet, when the Everest sold out before it was even announced, the blue-dialed model is boutique only (and trading nearly 2x above retail) and the rest of the collection is more or less waitlisted.
> 
> I will say though that the Everest hype was justified – it's an absolute knockout.



its definitely hyped but on select pieces and mostly just the limited editions and overseas

despite the overseas going for far above retail on the grey market, many still feel they can get one or be promised one with a set date if you go to a boutique without any history especially if you aren’t after the blue one

i think its also still possible to get a discount from an AD on some other models like the 56 or traditionelle or the 1921or the triple calendar…

while with AP they can put you int heir system but it might take 3-5 years to get a royal oak depending on the model, the jumbo is probably out of reach to most at retail and now that they are pretty much going all boutique, everything is going to be even more limited and there will absolutely be no discount on anything now

and patek will probably laugh at your face if you walk in for the first time in their store and ask for a nautilus or an aquanaut


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

zztopops said:


> The Overseas unfortunately is too large for my wrist but have to admit I absolutely love the Everest and would get it even if its too large for me (I think).


It wears smaller due to the grey bezel and on either of the strap options. It looks a little larger on the bracelet but not as large as a standard Overseas 4500V/7900V. Unless your wrist is 6.5" or smaller my guess is it would work.

The problem would be finding one. As far as I'm aware, none of the 7910V Dual Time Everest have been sold on the secondary market.



zztopops said:


> View attachment 16375330


Haha, let's hope that doesn't happen.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

dinexus said:


> I get a sense that dress watches will be back in style soon enough. Everything is cyclical, and once everyone’s had their fill of the sporty stuff, those thin, time-only precious metal references will again have their day.


You very well could be right, and frankly I hope you are. I don't want to see complications and their design language die off.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

37 said:


> This is fun. Dufour makes a cameo.


Wow that's a very unique case and dial for a minute repeater. I remember this watch in the auction catalog but didn't bother researching as it was wayyy out of my price range anyway. Thanks for sharing!



matt233 said:


> Why is Vacheron the most underappreciated of the big 3? I've liked the brand since I've been collecting. But I feel like doesn't get as much attention as it deserves. My theory is that they don't have a "tent pole" model. AP has the Royal Oak & Offshore. Patek has Nautilus, Perpetual Calendar Chronographs, and the Calatrava (maybe not a tent pole, but one of the watches that defines the brand IMO). Seems like Vacheron hasn't tried to chase this strategy (or hasn't been successful). Any other thoughts?


For me at least the appeal of Vacheron is not one watch defines the brand. As I learn more about the brand they seem to have such a deep bench of watch designs and also seems to excel at amazing custom made pieces. Less of a tendency to recycle watch designs - which is great in my eyes but probably less appealing for the hype chasing crowd. I'm someone who does not like to own 20 look alike watches ....


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## VicLeChic (Jul 24, 2013)

In a world of hype and bling, I find VC to be one of the last bastions of understatement, class and elegance. I've always associated VC with the Patrimony, its most emblematic model to me. I've been wanting an automatic HH dress watch for years and finally decided to add the 85180 WG to my collection last year. I love its ultra conservative and timeless design. Besides, I find the finishing on the movement quite astonishing.


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

The Traditionelle Twin Beat Perpetual Calendar may be worth contributing to the thread. It's expensive and low production but refreshing to see a PC with some thought put into how they're worn and stored, with purpose given to how difficult they can be to set when worn in rotation with a collection.

The button at 8 o'clock switches between 5Hz for wearing and 1.2Hz for storage, with 65 _days_ of reserve using a second larger, slower balance wheel. It's also manual wind, which in my opinion is the only way to do a watch like this visual justice.









Traditionnelle Twin Beat Perpetual Calendar


This is the story of a beat, a beat that tells the story of your heart, a beat that accelerates, slows down and even stops. A beat that gives the tempo of the Belle Haute Horlogerie. Listen to it. Tame it. Feel it. Follow the beat of your emotions and let yourself be carried away by #VCSIHH




www.vacheron-constantin.com


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

37 said:


> The button at 8 o'clock switches between 5Hz for wearing and 1.2Hz for storage, with 65 _days_ of reserve using a second larger, slower balance wheel.


Thanks for sharing! This movement feature is crazy awesome. Totally makes sense for a PC and avoids the need of using a winder.


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## OogieBoogie (Oct 3, 2021)

zztopops said:


> Thanks for sharing! This movement feature is crazy awesome. Totally makes sense for a PC and avoids the need of using a winder.


I can't even figure out how to do it conceptually. Awesome is exactly the right word!


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

OogieBoogie said:


> I can't even figure out how to do it conceptually. Awesome is exactly the right word!


F=MA, or force equals mass times acceleration. The larger, slower balance has enough mass to impose enough force to keep the system going. Since it does so using less power from the barrel and mainspring, runtime is increased from 4 days at 5Hz to 65 days at 1.2Hz.

The interesting part is that mathematically speaking, dropping to 1.2Hz should net 16 days, not 65, so something else is going on here to further multiply that by a factor of four. 5Hz / 1.2Hz = 4.167 x 4 days = 16.67 days. That result times four is 66.67 days of reserve, so 65 must be a number chosen with a margin of error +/- 2 days. So, what's multiplying it by four? I don't know yet but plan to read more.

At 1.2Hz it's not to be worn on the wrist due to that balance not having the frequency to overcome outside forces such as angle (which has a gyroscopic drag effect), jarring (which would change amplitude of balance wheel rotation), shock (also affecting amplitude), and so on. It's recommended that when in 1.2Hz mode the watch be stored horizontally flat since any other position will affect balance amplitude.

It's a brilliant design and currently either patented or in patent pending status.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

PSA: Christian Selmoni (Vacheron Style and Heritage Director) To Lecture At The Horological Society Of New York *Feb 15, 1pm ET *

_Vacheron Constantin Heritage & Style Director Christian Selmoni will explore the very notion of time through the medium of calendar watches. Join Selmoni for a deep dive into the stories behind the Maison's calendar watches and their roots in astronomy._










Happenings: Christian Selmoni And Suzanne Wong To Lecture At The Horological Society Of New York


The duo will discuss calendar watches and their development at Vacheron Constantin.




www.hodinkee.com


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## OogieBoogie (Oct 3, 2021)

37 said:


> F=MA, or force equals mass times acceleration. The larger, slower balance has enough mass to impose enough force to keep the system going. Since it does so using less power from the barrel and mainspring, runtime is increased from 4 days at 5Hz to 65 days at 1.2Hz.


Yeah, sorry I missed the part in your original post about switching between the balances, that's pretty cool.

I love that although mechanical watches were made functionally obsolete by quartz there's still a passion to improve on them. Pleasing that Richemont have never tried to reign in VC's haute horology.


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## baodai6062 (Apr 28, 2021)

37 said:


> The Traditionelle Twin Beat Perpetual Calendar may be worth contributing to the thread. It's expensive and low production but refreshing to see a PC with some thought put into how they're worn and stored, with purpose given to how difficult they can be to set when worn in rotation with a collection.
> 
> The button at 8 o'clock switches between 5Hz for wearing and 1.2Hz for storage, with 65 _days_ of reserve using a second larger, slower balance wheel. It's also manual wind, which in my opinion is the only way to do a watch like this visual justice.
> 
> ...



I inquired about this watch with my local boutique in 2020 and again last year. I was told it was a concept watch and only a couple were made. Do you have any info on availability and price (or first number of the price)? Such an amazing piece. Complications + attitude. For now, I may have to settle for the new annual calendar/single beat. 🤣









Vacheron Constantin Traditionnelle - 4020T/000G-B655


Discover the Vacheron Constantin Traditionnelle complete calendar openface luxury watch in White Gold. More information on the website




www.vacheron-constantin.com


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## 37 (Jan 7, 2020)

baodai6062 said:


> I inquired about this watch with my local boutique in 2020 and again last year. I was told it was a concept watch and only a couple were made. Do you have any info on availability and price (or first number of the price)? Such an amazing piece. Complications + attitude. For now, I may have to settle for the new annual calendar/single beat. 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny you ask since I just inquired yesterday. There are currently two available at boutiques in the US at $254k. Costa Mesa and NYC. They manufacture only a few every year but at that price they aren't flying off the shelves.

If you pick one up, please post photos so we can live vicariously through you!

I'm still saving my allowance and lunch money to be able to pull it off.


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## Kelvin0628 (Apr 17, 2021)

That is a beautiful looking piece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

37 said:


> lunch money to be able to pull it off.


I did the math (not inflation adjusted), I'll most likely expire before I hit the target.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

zztopops said:


> PSA: Christian Selmoni (Vacheron Style and Heritage Director) To Lecture At The Horological Society Of New York *Feb 15, 1pm ET *


OMG the deep bench of crazy complications VC has produced continues to astound me.

Among the pieces covered in today's lecture, this one stood out*- **Les Cabinotiers Celestia Astronomical Grand Complication 3600*_. Quite a mouthful. _


Calibre3600 Developed and manufactured by Vacheron Constantin Mechanical, manual-winding 36 mm (15 ¾’’’) diameter, 8.7 mm thick Approximately 3 weeks of power reserve 2.5Hz (18,000 vibrations/hour) 514 components 64 jewels*23 COMPLICATIONS!
🤪*​Hours, minutes, perpetual calendar, day/night indication, precision moon phase, age of the moon, running equation of time, sunrise and sunset time, day and night length, seasons, solstices, equinoxes and zodiacal signs, tide level indicator, Sun-Earth-Moon conjunction, opposition and quadrature, transparent sky chart of the northern hemisphere with indication of the Milky Way, of the ecliptic and celestial equator, hours and minutes of sidereal time, tourbillon, 3 weeks of power reserve (6 barrels), power reserve indicationCase18K white gold 45 mm diameter, 13.6 mm thick Transparent sapphire crystal caseback Water-resistance tested at a pressure of 3 bar (approx. 30 metres)









LES CABINOTIERS CELESTIA ASTRONOMICAL GRAND COMPLICATION 3600


The Fine Watchmaking firmament welcomes a bright new star: the unique twin-dial Celestia Astronomical Grand Complication 3600 combines astronomy and the watchmaking art in a celestial white gold composition. Twenty-three essentially astronomical complications appear on the front and back dials...




presslounge.vacheron-constantin.com


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Excellent video


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

My new favorite horological associated word(s) _'Les Cabinotiers'_


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## DowningB (Nov 22, 2019)

VicLeChic said:


> In a world of hype and bling, I find VC to be one of the last bastions of understatement, class and elegance. I've always associated VC with the Patrimony, its most emblematic model to me. I've been wanting an automatic HH dress watch for years and finally decided to add the 85180 WG to my collection last year. I love its ultra conservative and timeless design. Besides, I find the finishing on the movement quite astonishing.


Agreed.

I nearly pulled the trigger on a VC Patrimony 81180 RG late last year, but I just couldn't get over the solid case back. It just seemed such a shame to hide that gorgeous movement. I ended up going with an Omega De Ville Tresor RG instead. Definitely not the same level of finishing on the movement but close enough.


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## VicLeChic (Jul 24, 2013)

DowningB said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I nearly pulled the trigger on a VC Patrimony 81180 RG late last year, but I just couldn't get over the solid case back. It just seemed such a shame to hide that gorgeous movement. I ended up going with an Omega De Ville Tresor RG instead. Definitely not the same level of finishing on the movement but close enough.


 Congratulations on your Tresor, it's a gorgeous piece.


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## arolex (Feb 12, 2017)

zztopops said:


> I daresay, I think this VC has a nicer movement compared to Patek's split second
> 
> View attachment 16358383
> 
> ...


Beautiful movement!


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## arolex (Feb 12, 2017)

zztopops said:


> Would totally commission something like this if I had the $$$. Just a stunning creation - it's covers all the bases of watchmaking, artistry and some.
> 
> Vacheron Constantin Les Cabinotiers Westminster Sonnerie – Tribute to Johannes Vermeer
> 
> ...


Very nice! Congrats.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

arolex said:


> Very nice! Congrats.


Unfortunately not mine


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Checking out some goodies at the local boutique. 



























Rubber strap on the Overseas is super comfy. Unfortunately men’s size PR pieces out on loan for award season.


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## baodai6062 (Apr 28, 2021)

QUESTION:
I had to manually wind my overseas twice in the same week. It stops all the time after non-use but it usually starts back up after I set it. Seemed strange that I had to wind it twice in the same week. I have two other VCs but they are manual wind, so I’m not sure if this is normal or signals that something else is going on and that it needs service. Anybody else have this issue or thoughts?

For reference, I got the watch new from an AD 2 years ago. Reference


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

baodai6062 said:


> I had to manually wind my overseas...


You mean spin the crown a few times and it starts? Or do you mean to had to really wind it before it would start?

A lot of automatic movements need the rotor to move around a bit before starting, so it may depend on how much you move/shake/rotate the watch when you pick it up and wind it.


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## baodai6062 (Apr 28, 2021)

dbostedo said:


> You mean spin the crown a few times and it starts? Or do you mean to had to really wind it before it would start?
> 
> A lot of automatic movements need the rotor to move around a bit before starting, so it may depend on how much you move/shake/rotate the watch when you pick it up and wind it.


Good point. Yes, I had to manually wind the crown.


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

baodai6062 said:


> Good point. Yes, I had to manually wind the crown.


What I'm asking, I guess, is how many times did you have to wind the crown before it started? Was it just a few? Or a lot? A few would be normal I think (though I don't know that particular movement), where a lot - say 15 or 20 - may indicate a problem.


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)




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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

dbostedo said:


> What I'm asking, I guess, is how many times did you have to wind the crown before it started? Was it just a few? Or a lot? A few would be normal I think (though I don't know that particular movement), where a lot - say 15 or 20 - may indicate a problem.


My Overseas has always taken around 15 turns of the crown to get started after it's been stopped for a while. Only a sample of one, I guess, but there you go. I should add that I just got mine back from being serviced by VC and the behavior is the same. So I suspect it's typical for the movement. Certainly it's running fine, power reserve is as it should be.


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## baodai6062 (Apr 28, 2021)

dbostedo said:


> What I'm asking, I guess, is how many times did you have to wind the crown before it started? Was it just a few? Or a lot? A few would be normal I think (though I don't know that particular movement), where a lot - say 15 or 20 - may indicate a problem.


I had to turn it about 10 times. What was concerning was that after I had done this the first time, I had to do it again about a half an hour after the watch was on my wrist. After that night, I put it in the box and came back to it three or four days later and noticed it was stopped again. I had to repeat the same behavior because that was the only way to start it. Usually give the watch a little jiggle and it starts right up. That’s common with all of my automatics. I can think of only 1 occasion that I had to wind an automatic in the past and that was years ago and the watch has never had to be wound again. That I have had to do this multiple times in one week with the same watch seems odd.


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## baodai6062 (Apr 28, 2021)

Colombia said:


> View attachment 16722661
> 
> View attachment 16722660
> 
> ...


That 1942 is such a great watch. Would never have thought to pair it with a stingray strap. Looks awesome. 

Since I’ve been concerning myself with winding issues lately, I’ve heard that watch needs a lot of crown action. Do you find yourself winding it a lot?


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)

baodai6062 said:


> That 1942 is such a great watch. Would never have thought to pair it with a stingray strap. Looks awesome.
> 
> Since I’ve been concerning myself with winding issues lately, I’ve heard that watch needs a lot of crown action. Do you find yourself winding it a lot?


Thank I appreciate it.

To be honest, I’ve never worn it more than a day in rotation. So there’s more than a week in between it’s worn again. I’ll be back in town on Tuesday and I’ll give you more feedback on that. I’m curious to know as well


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## Burntouttrader (Dec 6, 2021)

Hearing the 1921 is a 1-2 year wait from a boutique - is this right? Anyone hear anything else? I feel with a recession coming this number is not going to last


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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

baodai6062 said:


> I had to turn it about 10 times. What was concerning was that after I had done this the first time, I had to do it again about a half an hour after the watch was on my wrist. After that night, I put it in the box and came back to it three or four days later and noticed it was stopped again. I had to repeat the same behavior because that was the only way to start it. Usually give the watch a little jiggle and it starts right up. That’s common with all of my automatics. I can think of only 1 occasion that I had to wind an automatic in the past and that was years ago and the watch has never had to be wound again. That I have had to do this multiple times in one week with the same watch seems odd.


Well, I suppose if you're not moving much and you only gave it 10 turns, it might not be enough. I always wind rather than try to jiggle an automatic when I'm starting them, but maybe that's just me. I am still traumatized by a clueless salesperson I once saw try to jiggle a watch to start it when it was a manual wind...and a skeleton to boot. 

After three days or more of not wearing it, it certainly will stop since the movement has a 60 hour power reserve, so that's normal.


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## hotlesbianassassin (11 mo ago)

37 said:


> Funny you ask since I just inquired yesterday. There are currently two available at boutiques in the US at $254k. Costa Mesa and NYC. They manufacture only a few every year but at that price they aren't flying off the shelves.
> 
> If you pick one up, please post photos so we can live vicariously through you!
> 
> I'm still saving my allowance and lunch money to be able to pull it off.


Oh man, I visited the Costa Mesa boutique from time to time in the past 2 years, but I never knew they had one in stock during that time. I wouldn't part with my 1921 for anything, but I would have gladly sold the rest of my collection and moved some funds around to buy this if I had known they had one in stock. It would have been tight, but I could probably survive off ramen for the next few years. 😅 Bummer...


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## Markg86 (7 mo ago)

Hello VC fans.

On my shortlist of potential acquisitions is a VCO 4500v. I like the silver dial, I have blue and black dials covered off with other options, so am weighing up a white dial ceramic Daytona vs 4500v silver vs Royal Oak Offshore Safari.

My question is, does anyone have any idea of wait time on the silver dial 4500v at present? I am going to head to London on Friday and pop in to ask but just keen to get an idea of expectations. I was under the impression the silver is less popular than the blue.

Also curious to know if VC is like AP, Rolex and Patek where I would need to buy lots of other things to be taken seriously? As I have zero interest in that game and will look elsewhere.

Many thanks for any help.


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## baodai6062 (Apr 28, 2021)

Markg86 said:


> Hello VC fans.
> 
> On my shortlist of potential acquisitions is a VCO 4500v. I like the silver dial, I have blue and black dials covered off with other options, so am weighing up a white dial ceramic Daytona vs 4500v silver vs Royal Oak Offshore Safari.
> 
> ...


I have heard the silver dial is about 8 months out. 

As far as attitude and requiring an acquisition entry fee, I have found VC boutiques to be accommodating if you show a sincere interest in their watches and know something about their brand. You will probably have difficulties getting a 222 and will have a long wait for a blue dial 4500v, but they will work to obtain other requests and have not had them ask me to buy watches I don't want in order to get the ones I do, like other brands (AP, ALS & PP). What I have found the issue being is that, with making only 20k watches a year, they have less inventory to go around and dole out the watches to one those dealers who they have better relationships with first (not necessarily one of the 7 boutiques). I have found that the most profitable stores have a more direct line to Vallée de Joux.


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## Markg86 (7 mo ago)

baodai6062 said:


> I have heard the silver dial is about 8 months out.
> 
> As far as attitude and requiring an acquisition entry fee, I have found VC boutiques to be accommodating if you show a sincere interest in their watches and know something about their brand. You will probably have difficulties getting a 222 and will have a long wait for a blue dial 4500v, but they will work to obtain other requests and have not had them ask me to buy watches I don't want in order to get the ones I do, like other brands (AP, ALS & PP). What I have found the issue being is that, with making only 20k watches a year, they have less inventory to go around and dole out the watches to one those dealers who they have better relationships with first (not necessarily one of the 7 boutiques). I have found that the most profitable stores have a more direct line to Vallée de Joux.


Thanks for this, that's a very helpful reply. And a pretty reasonable timescale too! Much obliged


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## Burntouttrader (Dec 6, 2021)

Silver is a lot easier than black which is a TON easier than blue.

having said that the last I heard about a 4500v black is “few more months” after waiting for 11 months.

I put a deposit down at a boutique at a major city. I wasn’t asked to purchase anything else.


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## Dapuma (Oct 11, 2015)

Does anyone have the new 222 yet? I would love to see some pictures "real life" pictures.


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## TwoToneHappyness (6 mo ago)

Not a new one but here is an original 222 for you:


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

TwoToneHappyness said:


> here is an original 222


Nice!!!


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

I'm so envious! 


















Exhibition: Vacheron Constantin ‘The Anatomy of Beauty’ in Singapore | SJX Watches


From now till November 2.




watchesbysjx.com


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## tymonster (Jun 17, 2017)

Wanted to ask if anyone knows if the orange rubber straps (the limited edition 100 made released on 2021) are now readily available and no longer limited in production. I've heard mixed stories about them being a one-time run and others have said they've been able to (recently) order them through a VC boutique. Thanks!!


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)

I’ve called all over and can’t find anything. Delugs said they’ll be making rubber straps at the beginning of the year


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)




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## Delugs (Jul 29, 2020)

Colombia said:


> I’ve called all over and can’t find anything. Delugs said they’ll be making rubber straps at the beginning of the year


We're still working on it. Integrated metal with rubber has proven more challenging than we thought!


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## mnf67 (Jan 30, 2018)

Delugs said:


> We're still working on it. Integrated metal with rubber has proven more challenging than we thought!


Please, make something for the Gen 1 (42040) overseas!


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)




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## apelsin.med.urverk (Mar 31, 2021)

Hello Vacheron-experts! Need some help regarding a Vacheron from the 90's that I'm currently looking at. It's the VC Overseas 72050 (35mm quartz). Really liking this watch, but find it quite expensive considering it's quartz. The seller is asking about 8000 euros, maybe a little less is possible. I would in that case swap my 3861 speedmaster for it (with some extra payment to the seller), and have a duo with the 72050 and my pam233.

This modell is currently trading for around 8000 euros and upwards, but has been sold for like 2000 euros just a few years ago. I'm not into this hobby to make money, but would not want to take any big risks either. How do you think this watch will hold it's value. Only about 10% of these watches were released with a quartz movement if I'm not misstaken, and it has a Sigma Dial in perfect condition.

Would you do the trade? And do you think it's way to much money for a quartz, even though it's a Vacheron Constantin? Pictures from google.


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)




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## Ric Capucho (Oct 5, 2012)

apelsin.med.urverk said:


> Hello Vacheron-experts! Need some help regarding a Vacheron from the 90's that I'm currently looking at. It's the VC Overseas 72050 (35mm quartz). Really liking this watch, but find it quite expensive considering it's quartz. The seller is asking about 8000 euros, maybe a little less is possible. I would in that case swap my 3861 speedmaster for it (with some extra payment to the seller), and have a duo with the 72050 and my pam233.
> 
> This modell is currently trading for around 8000 euros and upwards, but has been sold for like 2000 euros just a few years ago. I'm not into this hobby to make money, but would not want to take any big risks either. How do you think this watch will hold it's value. Only about 10% of these watches were released with a quartz movement if I'm not misstaken, and it has a Sigma Dial in perfect condition.
> 
> ...


Maybe look up the model on chrono24 and compare prices? Personally, I find chrono24 prices to be inflated by about 20% but it does give me some idea.

Ric


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## Whitebread (Nov 7, 2020)

apelsin.med.urverk said:


> Hello Vacheron-experts! Need some help regarding a Vacheron from the 90's that I'm currently looking at. It's the VC Overseas 72050 (35mm quartz). Really liking this watch, but find it quite expensive considering it's quartz. The seller is asking about 8000 euros, maybe a little less is possible. I would in that case swap my 3861 speedmaster for it (with some extra payment to the seller), and have a duo with the 72050 and my pam233.
> 
> This modell is currently trading for around 8000 euros and upwards, but has been sold for like 2000 euros just a few years ago. I'm not into this hobby to make money, but would not want to take any big risks either. How do you think this watch will hold it's value. Only about 10% of these watches were released with a quartz movement if I'm not misstaken, and it has a Sigma Dial in perfect condition.
> 
> ...


Everything was cheaper a few years ago. If you compare that watch to the quartz Nautilus or Royal Oak it’s still cheaper so there could be potential but if/when prices start cooling, quartzes will be hit first. It’s a coin toss. 

If it was Gen 2 or newer, it would be a better deal. I doubt that Gen 1 will ever reach same price level as the later watches with new new style bracelets, even if produced in smaller quantities.


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## DowningB (Nov 22, 2019)

apelsin.med.urverk said:


> Hello Vacheron-experts! Need some help regarding a Vacheron from the 90's that I'm currently looking at. It's the VC Overseas 72050 (35mm quartz). Really liking this watch, but find it quite expensive considering it's quartz. The seller is asking about 8000 euros, maybe a little less is possible. I would in that case swap my 3861 speedmaster for it (with some extra payment to the seller), and have a duo with the 72050 and my pam233.
> 
> This modell is currently trading for around 8000 euros and upwards, but has been sold for like 2000 euros just a few years ago. I'm not into this hobby to make money, but would not want to take any big risks either. How do you think this watch will hold it's value. Only about 10% of these watches were released with a quartz movement if I'm not misstaken, and it has a Sigma Dial in perfect condition.
> 
> Would you do the trade? And do you think it's way to much money for a quartz, even though it's a Vacheron Constantin? Pictures from google.


I'm a big fan of VC watches, but I would never spend that kind of money on a quartz watch. So many really good mechanical watches out there for that kind of money. Vacheron already charges a lot because of their name and deserved reputation, and in the case of quartz watches even more so, imho. Just not a good value.

Having said that, if that's the watch you want and the price is in line with other similar watches, then I wouldn't worry about what some guy on the internet thinks and go for it.


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)




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## OotOot (1 mo ago)

Recently inherited this piece from my dad


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## wiseMenofGotham (Jun 2, 2009)




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## westbeach (12 mo ago)

baodai6062 said:


> That 1942 is such a great watch. Would never have thought to pair it with a stingray strap. Looks awesome.
> 
> Since I’ve been concerning myself with winding issues lately, I’ve heard that watch needs a lot of crown action. Do you find yourself winding it a lot?


Hi, I have the 1942 and yes, it takes quite a while to fully wind it. I would say like close to 80ish rotations. It’s a beautiful watch and I wouldn’t let the winding be of concern.


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## wiseMenofGotham (Jun 2, 2009)




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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)




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## ronhan (Jan 20, 2017)

First generation Overseas: Ref. 42040








Regards, Ron


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## Sticky2 (9 mo ago)

Is it just me or does the blue fiftysix on bracelet fly under the radar? It gives me Odysseus vibes. I guess maybe the Overseas just overshadows it:


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## MD11 (May 5, 2012)




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## OotOot (1 mo ago)

OotOot said:


> Recently inherited this piece from my dad
> View attachment 17074904


I recently took this piece to a local vintage watch store and they mentioned the case on it is 14k gold instead of 18k gold like VC typically come with. It really through the guy off. Was 14k gold used on sole cases?


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## MD11 (May 5, 2012)

OotOot said:


> I recently took this piece to a local vintage watch store and they mentioned the case on it is 14k gold instead of 18k gold like VC typically come with. It really through the guy off. Was 14k gold used on sole cases?


older VC’s and many other brands watches imported into the US were made in 14k because It was against the law to transact gold of a higher purity in the US for some time.


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## OotOot (1 mo ago)

That’s very interesting and thank you for the response. That would make sense though. My father was born and raised in Europe and likely purchased this watch there and brought it with him when he came to the US. 


MD11 said:


> older VC’s and many other brands watches imported into the US were made in 14k because It was against the law to transact gold of a higher purity in the US for some time.


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)




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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

Been wearing and will be wearing a VCO all week.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

Pongster said:


> Been wearing and will be wearing a VCO all week.


Where the picture, sir?

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

GrouchoM said:


> Where the picture, sir?
> 
> Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect


Glad you asked sir


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

One more shot


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## brayanedward (14 d ago)

should have never come out with this line...trying to broaden their audience at the expense of their main clients.



Showbox jiofi.local.html tplinklogin​


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## usmc_k9_vet (Jan 8, 2020)

brayanedward said:


> should have never come out with this line...trying to broaden their audience at the expense of their main clients.
> 
> 
> 
> Showbox jiofi.local.html tplinklogin​


If what your saying is true, how is it at the expense of their main clients? Sounds like kind of a ridiculous thing to say. They shouldn’t expand their lineup and broaden their audience because their “main clients” need more of the same? That kind of thinking just reeks of pretension. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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