# Airman Original movement pictures



## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody,

finally i can present the *Flieger Original movement* i will use in the coming limited series. 

I am very happy to receive now the first movement.

Please enjoy the pictures!

- The movement will have a stop second, this means if you pull the crown, the second hand will move to 12 o clock position (60 minute or 60 second position) and stops.

After pressing the crown back to its normal position the movement will start to move again.

All other features and optical details you can see on the pictures.

- For example the golden balance bridge which is in the same color as the STOWA engraving and the big wheel which is reroute the small second to the central second!

A very important information is also that.

- the *first limited Edition* will come exactly with this movement !
The price will be* Euro 1.190.- for German and European customers
*The *net price* without german VAT will be* Euro 1020.-.*
(for all customers who can buy in our Netprice Onlineshop)

- a *second series* which was planed to launch also with swan neck regulating system *can´t be build because I can´t get those swan neck regulation*(at the moment it is impossible to get this pieces in a bigger quantity from Switzerland).

So i have decided to build *the next 100 to 120 pieces* (after delivery of the first 80 limited pieces) *without swan neck regulating system*** and a massive caseback *for a better price.*

I think this watch will be also a special watch.

The price for the watch without swan neck regulating system and massive caseback*** will be* Euro 990.- for German and European customer *(including german VAT) and* Euro 860.-* for all customers who can buy without german Vat in our *net price Onlineshop.*

- After these two series *I hope to be able to launch another series watch* but at the moment I can´t tell you exactly delivery time vision and price because I have not already order confirmations for hands and movements and swan neg regulating system.

This watch is of course in my plans but I can´t tell you more , only that i have ordered everything and waiting for confirmations.

*Delivery of limited Serie*
in 2-3 weeks i can give you more details of the limited Serie (the last ones with *case and dial*) and its delivery time.
I also will launch the Limited watch to the Onlineshop in 2-3 weeks and after this all customers who have preordered and still interested in the watch can order.

At the moment thats all to say and i hope that the last missing news can be launched ASAP.

Please understand that we can´t answer to all single questions for this project if you send us an personal e-mail.

We still are endeavored to give you all necessary informations here in the Forum.

After the day when we have launched all details and when we start to go into the orderprocess and delivery, we try to do our best to answer to your personal e-mails like always.

*Till this day we should try to dicuss all open questions here to take the chance to have all interested people informed.*

Thanks in advance for your patience, but the coming watch is worth the waiting time 

Best regards

Jörg Schauer

** the swan regulating system *have nothing* to do with the accuracy of your watch !
It is a help for the watchmaker to regulate easier and faster and it is a optical matter.
*So -- a watch without this swan regulating system is not working less accurate.*

If we put the movement under a massive caseback you will also have a very nice and accuracy watch.

***
The* limited watch* will have a *sapphire crystal back and a massive caseback*, it is possible to wear the watch with both (the massive caseback will invisibly the sapphire caseback) or without the massive caseback.
This detail i have to launch now also. .-)


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## Hary (Jan 8, 2007)

Superb news Joerg :-! It looks phantastic as many has expected. Make me proud to be in the first 80s


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## Crue4 (Mar 9, 2006)

absolutely beautiful...


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## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

Great news Jörg


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## tyau (Feb 10, 2006)

*Question??*

Thanks Jörg to post these pictures for all of us who have been waiting for so long. However, this makes us want to see the final product more . . . :-d

I have a quick question based on this following statement from Jörg :



STOWA/Schauer said:


> *Delivery of limited Serie*
> in 2-3 weeks i can give you more details of the limited Serie (the last ones with *case and dial*) and its delivery time.
> I also will launch the Limited watch to the Onlineshop in 2-3 weeks and after this all customers who have preordered and still interested in the watch can order.


Is this mean even for the people who are on the list of the first 80 have to "re-order" through the online site again?

Thanks.

Tommy


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## Flashharry (Jan 17, 2007)

This is fantastic news, I can't wait for this beautiful watch.

As a lume freak, will the minute markers be lumed as well as the hours, as I would REALLY like to see this on the dial ?

:thanks
Neal


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Great looking movement and thank you for the update. That is gorgeous. I am looking forward to getting mine.

The detail I am most interested in is the case back. I look forward to all the details and pics of this case back because I want to know how you did the sapphire case back along with the massive, solid case back.

The adrenaline is starting to flow again over this new watch.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

*Question about the second series movement?*

I do have a question about the second series. If you aren't using a swan neck regulator, what kind of regulation are you using? Will it be a Trivois Feinregulierung?


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

BBBBBBeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuutttttttttttttiiiiiiiiiiifffffffffffffuuuuuullllll!!!!
         

:thanks Jörg!


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## denisd (Dec 6, 2006)

*Nice function and finish*

The stop second function which runs back to 60 seconds is a particularly nice feature. I also like the overall look of the movement, rugged but with very decent finishing touches like the golden cock-bridge and seconds wheel and the spiralled ratchet wheels (typically German touch).

I'm also curious to see what the case will be like : solid case back screwed or snapped over a sapphire screwdown back?

Anyway, I think this watch will do very nicely. I'll be looking forward to confirming my pre-order in the coming weeks (or whenever possible).


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

*Re: Question??*

Registering in a list costs nothing, now lets see who's going to send the euros to Stowa! :-d

I'm sending them, for sure. ;-)


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## Nighthawk-68 (Sep 22, 2007)

I love it


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## euthymic (Jun 1, 2007)

Jörg,

A quick question that I want to clarify for those (like myself) that might be interested in the second round of this model (the next 100-120 pieces).

You describe it as "watch without swan neck regulating system and massive caseback." Does this mean that the second run will have a solid caseback (no ability to view the movement) like the solid caseback available for the seatime? 

Thanks for clarifying for me. It might just be that I have not had enough coffee this morning to decipher what you wrote ;-)

-Scott


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## Marcel (Jul 28, 2007)

Very nice pictures! This site is going to be flooded with pictures when you all receive your Flieger. Looking forward to it!

I just hope I will not be too sorry I couldn't wait for the FO. So far I still love my Flieger automatic .


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Thank you for the pictures, Jörg!:-!

I especially love the Sonnenschliff!

But I am also a little *disappointed *- at the moment. Maybe that will change...

- the *golden balance cock* is ugly. Why is it golden? Now it doesn't match the rest of the silver upper plate. An why are the *geneva stripes* missing?

- a *perlage *under the balance spring would be very nice. In my opinion this feature really makes a difference! Just look at the MO or Guinand WZU-5 movement!

- in contrast to the announcement in January, the *screwed balance wheel* was kicked out. Disappointing...

- the *Stowa engraving* looks a bit awkward - somehow are the letters thinner?!

Overall the movement is now having a more *modern, techical appearance*. Why couldn't the classical design of the MO be used?

- The *price*: In January the price mentioned was 970. Now it has risen a good 20% to 1190. I know, it's not Jörg's fault, but still...

Despite these shortcomings this watch will still be reaaaallly cool and has a good price. I will most probably confirm my pre-order. But I am not overwhelmed anymore...


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

Great news Jorg ... !!!!!

The movement is beautiful and the second reset function is a great plus, IMO ! |>

Just a clarification about the case back: it will be solid case back screwed over the sapphire or snapped over the sapphire back ? I mean can I open to see the movement evry time I want and colse the solid case back again or have I to unscrew it ... :roll: ?

Thanks again,

Engi


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Here is a good close up pic of the WZU-5's balance spring. Very nicely done.









The perlage under the balance spring would be cool. That treatement was done to my Eberhard Traversetolo.

Here is a pic of the Traversetolo's movement. Very nicely done.








I like that they did the perlage for the whole movement.

It could be that the movement still needs some decoration and overall finishing work. It would be cool to see the balance cock have the same geneva stripes as the rest of the movement.

You'll have to refresh my memory but I couldn't find where he said the screwed balanced wheel was kicked out.

I guess we'll have to wait and see the final product.


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

thodgins said:


> It could be that the movement still needs some decoration and overall finishing work. It would be cool to see the balance cock have the same geneva stripes as the rest of the movement.


Yes, the balance cock definately needs some improvement!



thodgins said:


> You'll have to refresh my memory but I couldn't find where he said the screwed balanced wheel was kicked out.


Mea culpa! The balance wheel *does *have screws! As the balance wheel is oscillating on the picture, I didn't see the screws! Sorry, Jörg!


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## kris (Feb 12, 2006)

Wow great pictures, What I'm wondering about.. do the first subsribers of the list have to re-order on the Stowa site in about 2-3 weeks?


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## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

Rahbari said:


> - The *price*: In January the price mentioned was 970. Now it has risen a good 20% to 1190. I know, it's not Jörg's fault, but still...


Well the first announcement told from 970 euros and at that time of the project there was no stop seconds planned nor the double caseback... I think that those 200 euro difference are well justified, as this movement is the first time that a Unitas handwing movement feature that complication (as I assume the manufacturer is the same as that of Helmut Sinn's Guinand watches)

I agree with the movement deco.... maybe it could be nive having golden plates too like those original B-uhr.

But I think that each of us would design our personal perfect B-uhr, but this is Jörgs design, and I think it is beautiful. I'll reconfirm my order as soon as it is possible.


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## Mercutio (Mar 28, 2007)

Hmm, I am not quite sure what to think...

The price increase is considerable. Really. 20 Percent in one year, this does not correlate with the much more moderate increase he announced for his non-limited watches.

The movement, during the whole process, I expected to be at least as beautiful as the one in the MO. At the moment, and judging from these photographs here only, it is not. I would hope for some improvement, but the announcement above said


STOWA/Schauer said:


> - the *first limited Edition* will come exactly with this movement !


I will wait for a final announcement, including the details concerning the case, until I make up my mind if I confirm my reservation or not. The only thing that keeps me hoping is that I simply cannot imagine Joerg offering a less-than-optimal product, but still...


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

What differences do you see between this and the MO movement, besides the fact that the balance cock is plain and there is no perlage beneath the balance wheel? Personally I think there is still some finishing work that needs to be done on the movement such as polishing and doing something with the balance cock. The movement may not be entirely finished. I guess we'll have to wait for Jörg to let us know.

I think it is a sweet looking movement.

It would be cool to have the original Stowa movement, but that would cost a lot more and to make the current into this would also cost us a lot more.










I would love to have the finger bridges and perlage on the entire bottom plate, but as I already said that would add some cost to the watch. I think Jörg found the right movement for this watch.


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

thodgins said:


> What differences do you see between this and the MO movement, besides the fact that the balance cock is plain and there is no perlage beneath the balance wheel?


Those two features *do make a substantial difference* in appearance, IMHO.



thodgins said:


> Personally I think there is still some finishing work that needs to be done on the movement such as polishing and doing something with the balance cock.


I agree 100%



thodgins said:


> The movement may not be entirely finished.


I hope so!



thodgins said:


> It would be cool to have the original Stowa movement, but that would cost a lot more and to make the current into this would also cost us a lot more.
> 
> I would love to have the finger bridges and perlage on the entire bottom plate, but as I already said that would add some cost to the watch.


Of course, a movement with bridges and complete perlage on the bottom plate would be the ultimate. But that is not the point. The point is: why does the FO movement differ from the MO movement in the two mentioned features (no perlage, "interesting" balance cock)? Surely, the *price can't play a role in so far*.

* Conclusion:*
The movement is still a beauty! But suboptimal if one compares it to the MO or the Guinand movement (both companys most probably use the same supllier). As Mercution said, Jörg will not offer a less-than-optimal product. So either Jörg will make some final improvements or - at least - explain to us why he made the changes he made. Thank you in advance, Jörg!

*Addition:*
what do the others think about the Stowa engraving? Am I the only one who perceives the letters as too thin?


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody,

thanks for your statements to the Unitas 6497 movement i will use.

I try to give a smuch answers as possible:

1
Tommy asked if all the preordered watches have to be ordered again
*Answer:*
When the day comes and the watch is in the Shop - *yes*- all preorders have to order again.
This is necessary because i need the Onlineorder in the Shop to have all logistical things perfect. (Adress, payment method, shippng etc.)

*But please be advised that i will launch this step here in the Forum!*
(another reason to order again is the fact that of course some preorders will cancel the watch now when they know the price and the final watchdesign, this is our exeperience from other limited Editions, this is a normal fact)
2
Neal
he ask if the minute markers will have also lume.
*Yes- they will have !*

3
ToddH 
The second serie will use a *normal regulating system* - no Triovis or something like that

4
Scott 
The second serie is planed to be only with solid caseback, but this is not 100% fixed- i am still open for this .
The reason i am planing this is to make the watch cheaper and maybe some customer does not want to see the movement if the swan neg regulating system is not on the movement.

We can dicuss this matter, but at the moment my feeling is to offer it without open caseback.

5
Rahbari
The movement will be* exactly this movement* i have shown on the pictures.

Of course always there are things we can make better.

But it was a long way to get this movement like this and the supplier situation is very hard at the moment - so i am happy that i can offer the movement in this nice finish.

Of course there was also a "part in my head" to have it realy like the old one.

But this was not possible at the moment, the supplier situation and basicly the movement situation does not allow to bring all features to this movement.

But for me it is like always- it is nice to have to old thing in the head and to follow it, but 100% copy of an old thing is nice - but also to develop it a little bit or change it to a personal taste of the designer(in this case me .-), you can see it with the golden color balancebridge ) is allowed.

But i know that i can´t satisfie always all my customers.

Sometimes you have to respect the suppliersituation and the facts in this watchworld.

*The balance of course is a screwed balance.*

So i hope that all preordered watches will be taken from the people who are on the list.

But like always i know that some of this customer will cancel the preorder in the reason that some details of the watch are not like they have had in their head.

This is absolutely to understand.

But i am sure on the other way, that all people who buy this watch will have something special on their wrist.

Best regards

Jörg


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Thank you very much for the update, Jörg!

Like many on this board, I have long been waiting for news about the project, and I am very excited! b-):-!

I would like to ask for clarification of a few points, if you don't mind:



STOWA/Schauer said:


> The movement will have a stop second, this means if you pull the crown, the second hand will move to 12 o clock position (60 minute or 60 second position) and stops.


Does that mean that when the crown is pulled, the second hand will proceed to the stop at zero at its normal pace (e.g. taking 40 seconds if the crown is pulled when the second hand is at 20 seconds), or does it "jump" to the zero like the second hand of a chronograph that is being reset?



STOWA/Schauer said:


> So i have decided to build *the next 100 to 120 pieces* (after delivery of the first 80 limited pieces) *without swan neck regulating system*** and [only] a massive caseback *for a better price.*
> 
> (...)
> 
> The* limited watch* will have [both] a *sapphire crystal back and a massive caseback*, it is possible to wear the watch with both (the massive caseback will invisibly the sapphire caseback) or without the massive caseback.


If the Limited Edition has a "double back" (sapphire and massive), and the follow-on 100/120-piece series has just a massive caseback, that the second series will be thinner than the limited edition? Can you say something about the respective height measurements of the limited edition and the second series?



Flashharry said:


> As a lume freak, will the minute markers be lumed as well as the hours, as I would REALLY like to see this on the dial ?


I, too, would like to know whether the minute marks will be lumed or not.

EDIT: Last question has just been answered by Jörg above!


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

STOWA/Schauer said:


> 4
> Scott
> The second serie is planed to be only with solid caseback, but this is not 100% fixed- i am still open for this .
> The reason i am planing this is to make the watch cheaper and maybe some customer does not want to see the movement if the swan neg regulating system is not on the movement.
> ...


I fully agree. A solid caseback befits the original concept of the B-Uhr, and if the supply situation is such that an MO-like movement cannot be found, there is no reason to put in a view back.


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

Hi Jorg,
thanks for the clarification; one info is missing about about the case back: it will be solid case back screwed over the sapphire or snapped over the sapphire back ? I mean can I open to see the movement every time I want and colse the solid case back again or have I to unscrew it ... :roll: ?

Thanks again,

Engi


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## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

Crusader said:


> Does that mean that when the crown is pulled, the second hand will proceed to the stop at zero at its normal pace (e.g. taking 40 seconds if the crown is pulled when the second hand is at 20 seconds), or does it "jump" to the zero like the second hand of a chronograph that is being reset?


I will take the liberty of answering before Jörg, but I had a movement like that on my hands in a spanish watchmakers shop that have built a prototype to go into LE production. And the answer is that when you pull the crown, the hand continues its normal way until it reaches the 12 o'clock and stays there until you push down the crown.

It is more a second stop than a zero reset. I think Glashütte Original Navigator features that zero reset with a pusher at 7 o'clock, but it is much more expensive and this design without pushers is closer to the original.


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## denisd (Dec 6, 2006)

*Excellent value for the price*

Folks, I don't want sound superior, but honestly I'm not sure some of you realise the value you're getting for the price.:think:

List the Airman LE's specs and try to find something on the market coming even close to it in the 1500-2000 euro range. Having done that exercise myself, I know the answer.

Sure, bridge anglage, an engraved balance cock (I love the frosted gold finish myself and wouldn't trade it) and mainplate perlage would be a plus but:

1. Let's not forget this is a tool watch and that we're no longer in the late 1930s when the cost of highly specialised watchmaking ressources were affordable.

2. If you want that kind of watch, it exists and is of great value : It's called Dornblüth and costs three times the price of the Stowa Airman LE.

I think that Jörg has held more than his promises so far on this model, price included : the second series will be far more affordable.

Just my two eurocents : please don't take my points too harshly, they are meant in good faith.


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## Marcel (Jul 28, 2007)

Lumed minute marks! :-!


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## Flashharry (Jan 17, 2007)

Marcel said:


> Lumed minute marks! :-!


Totally agreed:-!

I'm really looking forward to this watch.

Jorg

All I need to find out now is what markings are going to be on the case and more information on the caseback (how will we be able to see the movement- will any tools be necessary)?

many thanks

Neal


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

*Re: Excellent value for the price*

I fully agree with you, we are getting an excelent value. :-!
Still, I don't see the comments here done as criticism (I believe most of the comments are made by people that are in the list and will keep their names in) but as suggestion to improve even more the final package, and that's great IMO. b-)


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Excellent value for the price*

I agree that this watch is a great value and personally like the look of the movement and think it is a beauty. I totally look forward to seeing the entire package. I look forward to some lume shots. That is cool that the minute markers will have lume on them.

I still plan on getting this one because I have been looking forward to it for a year now.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

That seems to be the last remaining secret about this LE watch. I too am still curious about the sapphire crystal case back along with the solid case back. Guess we'll know more over the next 2-3 weeks. I know how it goes though, we want to know now..lol.


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## rouge (Apr 18, 2006)

:-! :-! :-! Great job and great watch, Mr. Schauer!!!
It worths all the long time waiting and every cent of the price tag... IMHO
I'm very excited and I look forward to get it  ... I believe it will be the perfect gift for next Christmas.


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

rouge said:


> :-! :-! :-! Great job and great watch, Mr. Schauer!!!
> It worths all the long time waiting and every cent of the price tag... IMHO
> I'm very excited and I look forward to get it  ... I believe it will be the perfect gift for next Christmas.


Yes Ugo,
I fully agree with you, it will be my personal gift under the Christmas tree ... ;-)

P.S. Non vedo l'ora di riceverlo ... !

Ciao

Engi


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Dear Jörg,

thank you for your answer! But maybe you can further elaborate why you ordered the movement in the way you did? Was it _not possible_ to get the MO or Guinand-Design (in time) from the supplier? Or did you implement the golden balance cock and the missing perlage under the balance _on purpose_, e.g. for Design reasons? Your answer will help to cope better with the "missing" features!

Apart from that it is beyond doubt, that the FO is of extraordinary value for the price! And it is nearly without doubt, that I will conform my pre-order.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody,

i will try to answer a few more qustions.

1
*Caseback*
The caseback for the limited watch will be screwed (the sapphire crystal back), the massive casback will be pressed on this screwed caseback.

This allows to wear the watch with massive caseback or open crystal caseback.

The design and work on the case will be so perfect that you "can´t see" if the watch have a massive caseback (if you wear it with open caseback) 

We try to make it like it was made for example on old pocketwatches.

It should be easy to open with a knife.

2
The movement was ordered like you can see it now.
*it was the maximum i can get at the moment from switzerland.*

3
The *golden balancebridge* was my intention to make it as a special difference to a maybe in the future coming serial watch with code geneve on the balancebridge

4
The *stopsecond mechanism* was described here in the thread and i can confirm this detail.
If you pull the crown the second hand will move in the normal rate as normal. If you pull when the crown is on 15 second position it will move another 45 seconds before it stops.

Hope this helps to clearify all open questions.

Best regards

Jörg Schauer


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## Nighthawk-68 (Sep 22, 2007)

STOWA/Schauer said:


> The *golden balancebridge* was my intention to make it as a special difference ...


Excellent idea, Jörg.
I really love this feature. 
Gives the movement a fresh, progressiv look. It hits my taste. ;-)
Definetely on of the best looking Unitas movements i´ve ever seen. :-!


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

I would also like to know if the this double caseback will add a bit of height to the watch.


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## dleibow (Apr 2, 2006)

I think it is a beautiful movement. I also think the pictures are great. I would like to have big wall posters of some of the pictures. I will try to print some of them, but wall posters would be very cool.
Congratulations Jorg! Great work!


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

The golden balance bridge is a very nice touch IMO, but without any marks for fast/slow (preferably the German words) looks a bit too plain, almost unfinished.
On the other hand I like the no-thrills approach given the tool watch heritage.


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

When you use it with the massive case back on top of the sapphire it has to add height.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Hopefully we'll get some height measurements soon. This is getting exciting.


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## Ernie Romers (Apr 27, 2005)

Happy Birthday Ugo :-!


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## rouge (Apr 18, 2006)

Watchuseek Admin said:


> Happy Birthday Ugo :-!


:thanks Ernie.... :-!:-!:-!:-!:-!!!!

The gift had been given me by Mr. Schauer when he started this thread!!!
The more I read it the more I become enthusiast of this great timepiece in my pipeline!!! :-d


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## rouge (Apr 18, 2006)

STOWA/Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> i will try to answer a few more qustions.
> 
> ...


I would suggest a slit on one side for an easy opening for the massive caseback, if possible.
Many pocket watches have it for an easy opening without tools (sometimes a finger nail is enough) and it prevents also any possible scratching of the case by removing the massive caseback by a knife...


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

Watchuseek Admin said:


> Happy Birthday Ugo :-!


Auguri di buon compleanno Ugo ! |>

Ciao

Engi


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## rouge (Apr 18, 2006)

Engi said:


> Auguri di buon compleanno Ugo ! |>
> 
> Ciao
> 
> Engi


Grazie, Engi. :-!:-!:-!


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

rouge said:


> I would suggest a slit on one side for an easy opening for the massive caseback, if possible.
> Many pocket watches have it for an easy opening without tools (sometimes a finger nail is enough) and it prevents also any possible scratching of the case by removing the massive caseback by a knife...


I fully agree with Ugo, I'm a bit afraid to use a knife every time I will have to see the movement ... :-d

Ciao

Engi


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## denisd (Dec 6, 2006)

*You're quite right of course, Paulo...*

Comments and constructive criticism (and it always has been) are what make this whole process great.:-!

But I was more specifically referring to comments regarding the price (versus specs) of the watch. Sure, a 20% increase on the original price indication is no small bump up but I think, given the watch and its features, its 100% justified. Thankfully, there's still a few more weeks to save for the Flieger Original (and, in my case, sell a couple of watches).


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

You're right too, the price comments don't contribute to the debate and are pointless, given the package we're getting. ;-)


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: You're quite right of course, Paulo...*

Just think if this were a re issue from A. Lange.. Yikes..It would be 10x the cost..lol


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## expwmbat (Feb 17, 2006)

Greetings All,

I, for one, am quite excited about the FO! To be sure, I always like more finishing and customization on the movements, but I don't think that is a reasonable expectation at this price point. And what we have seen so far is very exciting--the pictures show good quality finishing, and I think the golden balance bridge looks very cool and unique. Further, the stop-seconds feature will once again be something unusual and unlikely to be found in many other watches. Similarly with the combination back--know of any other watches that provide this? I certainly don't.

I can't wait to see the rest, and finally handle and wear the watch in person. I still find it amazing that Jorg can produce such high quality, and in this case, absolutely unique timepieces for such fair prices. Other watch companies should take note!

|>

Cheers,
Daniel


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## Bhanu Chopra (Apr 1, 2006)

Thanks for the detailed information Jorg :-!

I think Jorg is correct in stating that all of us have different expectations from the FO but ultimately given the supplier, price, and time constraints, Jorg has come up with the best possible FO for the lucky 80 customers.

I am looking forward to the first completed FO......I am sure most of my expectations will be met given Jorg's track record.

Cheers,

Bhanu


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## Rebreather (Sep 15, 2006)

*You don't have to wait for Lange*

Just look at the IWC Big Pilot, it has the decorations and finish that many of us here desire, and an in-house movement, at exactly 10X the price, and that is if you can find one in stock.

It may not be perfect, but the FO is a great value for its price point.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody,

sometimes it is not easy to sleep well .-)

So i decided to work on the movement and here you can see the result.

I will make a printing or *engraving* of the balancebridge (i think it will be a engraving- but i have to try first. My plan is to engrave - later to coat rhodium like the movement, if this not works well i will print in a grey color like the rhodium color of the movement.

Second i made a *perlage* for the ancrebridge which makes the background of the balance nicer.

*But now my possibilities are realy exhausted *

I hope this news finds you well.

The works on the movement costs me more time but i think the watch is worth this work---without priceincreasing. .-)

Best regards

Jörg


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Dear Jörg,

absolutely great news! These "last minute" modifications make the FO perfect! I am reaaaaaaaaaaaally happy!

Once again, you have proven that you not only make the best watches for the price, but that service and customer relation can simply not be beaten!

Johannes


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Very cool. What does the A R stand for in German??


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## euthymic (Jun 1, 2007)

Jörg,

Once again your dedication to your product shows. While I thought the movement you initially displayed looked great, I find it very impressive that you nonetheless took the feedback of your customers and looked into ways to improve an already beautiful product. I only wish that I would have known about Stowa watches when the reservation list was being filled. However, the second series may still give me a chance to get on board 
-Scott


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

thodgins said:


> Very cool. What does the A R stand for in German??


I assume it's french von "*A*vant" (=fast) and "*R*etard" (=slow). This makes the regulation easier.

A. Lange & Söhne used the german "*V*or" and *N*ach" on their Kalibre 48.1 Flieger-Movement (I couldn't decipher the original Unitas movement of the Stowa). This could be an option as well?!

Lastly, some movements used "*S*low" and "*F*ast". I don't know, whether these letters were used on Fliegers, though...

Lets hope, that Jörg is successful with the engraving!


----------



## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I agree that the perlage and the "engraving" or "printing" help to finish the overall look of the movement.

Thank you for listening Jörg and taking the time to add these small details. Hopefully you can sleep better now:-!

I am really looking forward to the final product.


----------



## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

STOWA/Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> sometimes it is not easy to sleep well .-)
> 
> ...


Hello Jörg,

these news are GREAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-!:-!:-!

This is the reason for which this forum is a really wonderful place.

I guess no other watchmaker are more reactive and paying attention to customers than you.

Thanks again !!! ;-)

Ciao

Engi

P.S. What R. A. does mean ?


----------



## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Excellent Job, Jörg ! :-!

If I may chime in re the language thing, I recommend to keep the writingh on the movement in a single language ... so if it says "Swiss" somewhere, I'd suggest *F*ast and *S*low. ;-)


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Engi said:


> P.S. What R. A. does mean ?





Rahbari said:


> I assume it's french von "*A*vant" (=fast) and "*R*etard" (=slow). This makes the regulation easier.
> 
> A. Lange & Söhne used the german "*V*or" and *N*ach" on their Kalibre 48.1 Flieger-Movement (I couldn't decipher the original Unitas movement of the Stowa). This could be an option as well?!
> 
> Lastly, some movements used "*S*low" and "*F*ast". I don't know, whether these letters were used on Fliegers, though...


;-)


----------



## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

Crusader said:


> ;-)


Yes Martin, when I was writing the question, someone already was answering ... the power of remote access ... b-)

CIao

Engi


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Engi said:


> Yes Martin, when I was writing the question, someone already was answering ... the power of remote access ... b-)
> 
> CIao
> 
> Engi


Yep, this is fast-moving discussion ... goes to show how fascinated this community is by Jörg's project! :-!


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Crusader said:


> If I may chime in re the language thing, I recommend to keep the writingh on the movement in a single language ... so if it says "Swiss" somewhere, I'd suggest *F*ast and *S*low. ;-)


Good point!

But I wouldn't mind the german V und N either!;-)

Maybe Jörg will make the decision along the lines which letters are easier to engrave?:-d


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## denisd (Dec 6, 2006)

How about the same letters as engraved on the original Stowa Flieger's movement?
Actually I just checked (courtesey of SteveG's launchpad) : the original 1930s Unitas movement has TWO sets of letters engraved : R-A (French) and S-F (English).

Er, say, would it be possible to opt for an unengraved balance bridge?

I think you've earned a very restful night of deep sleep, Jörg : thank you very much for the added details : I would have preferred a plain balance cock (but hey, I'll survive!) but I really like the perlage under the balance wheel.


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## Nighthawk-68 (Sep 22, 2007)

denisd said:


> I would have preferred a plain balance cock (but hey, I'll survive!) but I really like the perlage under the balance wheel.


This is exactly what i thought, after i´d seen the modifications first time. ;-)


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

Dear Jörg,

You are THE MAN! :-!

Absolutely great IMO and the care you show for your supporters is priceless.

The letters of the French words (given it's a Swiss movement) are fine, although I suggested German. In fact, giving it a little thought makes more sense the French. English never, in this case ;-) :-d


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

Paulo said:


> Dear Jörg,
> 
> You are THE MAN! :-!
> 
> ...


Hi Jörg,
I vote for the German engraving too, in honour to the Stowa origin ...

Great plus what you today told us ...

Ciao

Engi


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## hzmbot (Aug 26, 2006)

Sorry, but I am not realy happy with the movement. The finish of the "Unruh Kloben" is not what I would expect in such a watch.
Fortunately there are some days to decide what to do: 
- Keep the reservation and take the watch as it is?
- Keep the reservation and let Mr. Benzinger do some work on it?
- Take a watch from the second series?
- Do something complete different and buy a MO?

Kind regards
Thomas


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Paulo said:


> The letters of the French words (given it's a Swiss movement) are fine, although I suggested German. In fact, giving it a little thought makes more sense the French. English never, in this case ;-) :-d


What are you going to do with the word "Swiss" on the movement, then? ;-)


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2007)

hzmbot said:


> Sorry, but I am not realy happy with the movement. The finish of the "Unruh Kloben" is not what I would expect in such a watch.
> Fortunately there are some days to decide what to do:
> - Keep the reservation and take the watch as it is?
> - Keep the reservation and let Mr. Benzinger do some work on it?
> ...


Hi Thomas, regarding the "Unruh Kloben" (balance cock or balance bridge) Jörg stated as follows:

"I will make a printing or *engraving of the balancebridge (i think it will be a engraving* - but i have to try first. My plan is to engrave - later to coat rhodium like the movement, if this not works well i will print in a grey color like the rhodium color of the movement."


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

I read your other comment and I have to agree with you "consistency" criteria Martin, seems after all English would be the best option! :-! :-x


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Jörg's statement to make some last-minute modifications have triggered discussions.

The *preliminary result *is, that everyone welcomes the *perlage *under the balance.

However, there is no uniform opinion about the modification of the *balance cock* - not surprisingly so. Few opt for the "old" design (i.e. golden balance cock without engraving etc.). The *majority so far opt for the modification*. Among those it is "disputed" which language to take. For *every language there is a good reason*: English because it says "swiss" on the movement. French because it is a swiss movement. German because it is a german watch with a german history. Some even prefer two languages - like the original.

Of course, *Jörg has to decide* which course to take. As it will probably not be adequate/reasonable to have different languages, it might however be possible to order the old design, while others get the new one.

If I may, I would like to toss in another option resp. question: *would anyone like the printing of the cock, if the engraving is not possible*? In that case I would rather have the plain cock (and maybe check Mr Benzinger etc.). The printing is - IMHO - the worst option, although I truly appreciate Jörg's commitment.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

I really hadn't put much thought into the language yet. I am waiting to see if the engraving is possible.

Here is a pic of the original movement taken by gerard88t (his vintage Stowa B-Uhr)









You are correct about both languages being represented. I like how it was done on the original.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello everybody,

thanks for all your comments.

Just in front of the weekend i will tell you my last ideas after reading the thread.

1
*balancebridge*
in the reason that i am doing the engraving by myself (printing is out of the discussion - to many people don´t like and it is always the second best way to print something if you can do it alternative in a handcraftmanship) it is possible to handle this matter like this:

1.1
maybe we can give two options: *with* or *without engraving*, this is also possible of course
1.2
for those who want to have a *individual handengraving* it could be possible to pay the watch and to get the balancebridge and you can give it to a engraver. And after receiving the engraved balancebridge i build the watch.
1.4
we use the exact same engraving like on the Original, this seems to be the best version - all other versions have a "plus" or a "minus"

Of course it is easy to deliver the watch with a non engraved bridge - this is the easiest way.

The same easy way is that you find a engraver who makes your individual engraving.

The most practicle way is to find a engraving which is good for all .-)

I have a lot of experience in this individual matters and i only can say the best is i choose the engraving i find best and you decide if you wish with or without engraving.

At the moment i prefer the original engraving with the two language and the small sign - i will do a prototype next week and i will show it here- than we know if it is possible for me to engrave or not.

Best regards

Jörg

If i forgot a option sorry, there are so many comments at the moment .-)


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

STOWA/Schauer said:


> (...)
> 1.4
> we use the exact same engraving like on the Original, this seems to be the best version - all other versions have a "plus" or a "minus"
> (...)
> At the moment i prefer the original engraving with the two language and the small sign (...)


I thought it couldn't get any better! With the original engraving it _does_!!:-!:-!:-!

By the way: does anyone know, what the small sign on the balance cock of the original movement (triangle, arrow??) meant? Thanx!


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

STOWA/Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> thanks for all your comments.
> 
> ...


Jorg,
thanks again for your helpful collaboration: for sure I'll go for the option 1.4, i.e. the exact same engraving like on the Original and the engraving made by you or by who you decide will do it ... !

Ciao

Engi


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Personally I like the engraving on the Original with the 2 languages. I think that is the best version as well. I would totally order the watch with the 1.4 option. I look forward to seeing the prototype. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Reproducing the original engraving is not only a good idea aesthetically, it also adds authenticity and offers the chance to have the maximum number of future owners agree. ;-)


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

I agree that the original engraving seems the best solution.


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## tyau (Feb 10, 2006)

Thanks Jörg for spending extra time to listen to us on the forum.

I am another supportor of option 1.4 to have the engraving just the the original.

The watch is getting better and better as we speak. Cannot wait for Jörg's prototype next week.

Tommy


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## Flashharry (Jan 17, 2007)

I am another supporter of option 1.4 to have the engraving just the the original. 

I am SO looking forward to this watch, I have just passed on a Tudor snowflake to get this:-!

Is FL 23883 going to engraved on the side of the case as per the original watch and where will the limited edition numbers be engraved ?

:thanks
Neal


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Flashharry said:


> Is FL 23883 going to engraved on the side of the case as per the original watch and where will the limited edition numbers be engraved ?


While in one sense it would not be correct to have that particular engraving (as the watch does not conform to FL 23883, though it has been inspired by it), having another engraving in the same place would be a nice feature! :-!


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## Peter Atwood (Feb 16, 2006)

Another vote for the original style of engraving.


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2007)

Peter Atwood said:


> Another vote for the original style of engraving.


Well, that´s what I already pointed out when the Stow Seatime was discussed (re Seatime logo): If there´s something which is a "real" reminiscence of an old timepiece and it can be used again: Use it :-!


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## Flashharry (Jan 17, 2007)

Maybe we could use this for the Limited edition numbering start with FL23800 to 23880 :think: ?

Neal


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

What do you guys think about engraving/printing the massive case back on the inside or outside like this:









The "Geräte-Nummer" could contain the the number, e.g. 01/80 - just like the Flieger Automatik L.E.

I am ambivialent about a too predominant engraving on the side becuase everyone, incl. you will see it.


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## Nighthawk-68 (Sep 22, 2007)

Rahbari said:


> What do you guys think about engraving/printing the massive case back on the inside or outside like this:


I would opt for inside the case back as shown on that picture.



Rahbari said:


> I am ambivialent about a too predominant engraving on the side becuase everyone, incl. you will see it.


100 % agree


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## Hary (Jan 8, 2007)

Rahbari said:


> What do you guys think about engraving/printing the massive case back on the inside or outside like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would also opt for inside engraving. No need to show off the LE number :-d


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## Flashharry (Jan 17, 2007)

Rahbari

That is a fantastic idea, would really like to see that put into production.

Neal


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

A couple of months ago, Jörg wrote, that there will be "special engravings" on the *side *and on the *back *of the watch.

Concerning the back I, too would prefer the solution already postet:









I wouldn't mind, if it was on the outside of the back, though! What else should go there?

Concerning the *side*: I could do without an engraving. If an engraving comes, I would favor the Fl 23XXX solution; maybe even increasing numbers! No fake plate, please!

Johannes


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## kris (Feb 12, 2006)

Could the caseback be something like this?









here's the lost link to the discussion of the case back...
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=52809


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2007)

I pass. Not Flieger like at all.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

*the movement looks amazing*

i cannot wait until mine arrives. the movement is more then i had hoped for. awesome.


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: the movement looks amazing*

An inner caseback engraving similar to the original, and the special Airman edition for the Dutch forum, would be nice.

I would still think that a new engraving in the place of the original one (on the left case-side) would be a quite desirable feature, if something can be agreed upon like with the embellishments of th movement.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: the movement looks amazing*

I think the inner case back engraving would be cool as well. Found this pic from Qahill's B-Uhr site










Here is the engraving on a Laco B-Uhr.










A side shot of the Laco










Both engravings would be welcomed to me.


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## Mercutio (Mar 28, 2007)

Rahbari said:


> A couple of months ago, Jörg wrote, that there will be "special engravings" on the *side *and on the *back *of the watch.


Hmm, sure he was not talking about the automatic?

In a German language forum, Joerg wrote, concerning the FO/LE:

http://forum.watchtime.ch/viewtopic.php?t=9474&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

"Die limitierte Flieger Original mit Handaufzug wird keine Gravur auf der 
Gehäuseseite haben. "

("The limited edition handwound Flieger Original will not have an engraving on the side of the case.")

BTW, Joerg, you are not the only one not to sleep well -- after I have been considering not to order the FO/LE, you make my points of criticism invalid, by giving it the additional perlage and (probably) an engraving on the balance bridge like the originals had which would make the LE particularly special...

Sigh, I think now I will just have to order, if I do not want to regret it for a long time to come.

Still, this is a pleasant way to suffer


----------



## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

This is absolutely amazing, in 3 days there's 100 posts in this thread and more than 2,500 views.

Just shows the high interest people are following this project, both from Stowa side thanks Jörg for all the attention you've given to the comments here) and from the forumners side. :-!


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

For me, this is one of the most anticipated watches of the year. Talk of this watch began last year. I am sure all sides want to see this watch be a special one.


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## Nighthawk-68 (Sep 22, 2007)

Mercutio said:


> In a German language forum, Joerg wrote, concerning the FO/LE:
> 
> http://forum.watchtime.ch/viewtopic.php?t=9474&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
> 
> ...


Thanks Mercutio.

I remembered that Jörg told that in the path, but i could not find it again.

I prefer a case without engravings.


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

stuffler said:


> I pass. Not Flieger like at all.


So Mike, what do not like of the Flieger ?

Ciao

Engi


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

I think he's just refering to the half-hunter case system Mike!


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

Paulo said:


> I think he's just refering to the half-hunter case system Mike!


Ooops,you're right Paulo, now it si clear ... 

Ciao

Engi


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## Peter Atwood (Feb 16, 2006)

Absolutely, this is my most anticipated watch this year.


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

thodgins said:


> For me, this is one of the most anticipated watches of the year. Talk of this watch began last year. I am sure all sides want to see this watch be a special one.


Excellently put, and my sentiment exactly! :-!


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Dear Jörg,

are you intending to answer questions, resp. take certain wishes into account regarding the recent diskussion about the case and/or the engravings soon or will you wait and give us full details in 2-3 weeks? I need to know, because otherwise I visit the forum every two hours to see if there is anything new!;-)

In the meantime I have asked Mr. Benzinger whether or not he is able to "transform" the Unitas 6497 of the FO into/close to the Unitas 2812 of the original. I haven't got an answer yet, though... I'll keep you informed.


----------



## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

hello everybody,

like you know - all news i am writting here makes a lot of (positive) trouble.
So i always have to think about my left time to answer and if the news are clear and if its possible decided facts.
In this reason be patience for the next coming news - they will come this week.
But more middle to end of the week than in the next 2 days !

best regards

Jörg Schauer


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## dabutcha76 (Jul 16, 2007)

To me, this level of interaction between community and maker is just amazing - I'm looking forward to more news even if I'm not on the list ;-)


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

I can only say :thanks for all the care and attencion Jörg! |>


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Paulo said:


> I can only say :thanks for all the care and attencion Jörg! |>


Seconded.

To be honest, checking the relevant forum a bit more frequently than in a two-week interval seems a small price to pay for a top watch. ;-)


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## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

Me too.... I have to say Thank you very much Jörg for your kindness.

Now justo another suggestion, this time regarding to the watch strap.... What do you think of this Di-Model Tornado watch strap?.... I think it is absolutely stunning



















Pictures are from a friend of mine.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Who else makes a strap like that especially a dark brown? I have only seen the Di-Modell in black.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Here is a pic of the movement from the Wempe Limited Edition Fliegeruhr that they put out a few years ago. I like the R/S engraving on their balance cock and the perlage, which is kind of hard to see, under the balance wheel.









Pic from Pjbocean on Equation of Time


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## Engi (Mar 20, 2006)

I would also like to see a more "traditional" strap, dark brown, ecru stitching, no rivets ... :think:

Ciao :-!

Engi


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

I particulary like this one in redish-brown, Tod!


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## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

thodgins said:


> Who else makes a strap like that especially a dark brown? I have only seen the Di-Modell in black.


In Spain Di-Model Tornado is sold in dark Brown, but only in 20mm I can give you the link if you are interested ;-) I can get them easily.

If Jörg will use a watchcase like that of the Marine Original, lug size will be 22mm, maybe he can check Di-Modell to make a 22 version, if not I can try to check it thorugh the Spanish distributor.


----------



## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Hey, fellow fans!

Please carry on the interesting discussion about straps! All I can say, is , that I prefer straps with white contrast stitching.

But I guess Jörg will almost certainly have ordered straps already (the same ones as for the limited automatic ??). Although Jörg has up until now taken our wishes into account, I think it will be impossible regarding the straps. If I am correct, the hands are the components that will arrive last and they are due in mid november?!


----------



## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

Rahbari said:


> Hey, fellow fans!
> 
> Please carry on the interesting discussion about straps! All I can say, is , that I prefer straps with white contrast stitching.
> 
> But I guess Jörg will almost certainly have ordered straps already (the same ones as for the limited automatic ??). Although Jörg has up until now taken our wishes into account, I think it will be impossible regarding the straps. If I am correct, the hands are the components that will arrive last and they are due in mid november?!


Well..... strap is not what I worry about. I have seen regular Stowa Airman straps and the are very, very good.... and I'd prefer that strapsize is that of 20mm as used un Airman Automatic.... I will be able one of these standard 20mm Tornado in Spain.


----------



## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Suso said:


> (...) and I'd prefer that strapsize is that of 20mm as used un Airman Automatic.... I will be able one of these standard 20mm Tornado in Spain.


That will be impossible, I'm afraid. I think it's allmost 100% sure, that the case of the MO will be used - in the brushed design. This means that the lugs are 22mm apart. Thus, no 20mm can be used!


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

From my personal experience (I bought recently two brown riveted straps with white stiching) the white stiching looks cool but the strap looks thinner and the watch looses some presence.

This one anyway was better than the original one because the stiching is closer to the edge and it's parallel (not narrowing to 18mm at the buckle, like the original)


----------



## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

Yes, it's the MO case, so 22mmm.


----------



## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

Rahbari said:


> That will be impossible, I'm afraid. I think it's allmost 100% sure, that the case of the MO will be used - in the brushed design. This means that the lugs are 22mm apart. Thus, no 20mm can be used!


That's what I think so as soon as I have mine at home, I'll try to get the Tornado strap to fit the AO


----------



## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Those are 2 great straps. Who makes them?? Thanks for sharing


----------



## Omar Hawk (Oct 5, 2007)

STOWA/Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> The second serie is planed to be only with solid caseback, but this is not 100% fixed- i am still open for this .
> The reason i am planing this is to make the watch cheaper and maybe some customer does not want to see the movement if the swan neg regulating system is not on the movement.
> ...


Hello,
I'd like to draw the discussion back to the case back topic of the second series.
In my view a crystal case back (I don't care whether it's sapphire or mineral glass if it comes to cost....) is a must for a mechanical watch. This is especially true with the planed modification to the 6497 movement to get the central second hand. (I definitely would like to see this in action.......) Of course to have the swan neck in addition would be great. If it's not possible, as Joerg pointed out - well, fine as well. But I wouldn't hide this very special movement under a solid case back because of this.

What do you think?

Best regards, Omar


----------



## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

Here Tod, check originalfliegerband.

BTW, you can get the Di-Modell Tornado within USA from Kenny.

If by any chance these links are against the rules, please let me know and I'll remove them asap.


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Omar Hawk said:


> (...)
> In my view a crystal case back (I don't care whether it's sapphire or mineral glass if it comes to cost....) is a must for a mechanical watch. This is especially true with the planed modification to the 6497 movement to get the central second hand. (...)


I agree!
(Although my vote shall not be counted, as I am getting in the L.E. series)

 But I guess just as many people prefer a solid back - even if the second series does come with a swanneck. Because the tastes differ so much, Jörg came up with the solution for the L.E. (i.e. both case backs at the same time) in the first place!


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

The questions resumes to: are there more or less B-Uhr purists than modern aficionados in the list for the 2nd series? ;-) :-d

A little more serious, it might be the case that Jörg anticipated that some people might quit from the 1st series due to budgetary reasons, considering the price increase, and he found this way to keep them in the project.

Also a limited series for the more purists seems a clever move from Jörg given the momentary lack of parts to assemble an enhanced movement version. We need more people that turn apparent problems into opportunities. :-!


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks for the info Paulo. The Tornado is really cool, but I really like that dark reddish brown strap.:-! I wonder if they ship to the US. I'll have to find out.


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

I can't wait for a case back pic. That is one pic I am excited to see. Sometimes it's hard to imagine how something will be when there isn't a pic.

I am definitely wanting the LE. I am less of a purist I guess.


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

The redish-brown is a favourite of mine too, would have bought it for the Archi if they had in 20mm. :-(
If there's shipping problems let me know Tod, I'm within EU.


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## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

thodgins said:


> Thanks for the info Paulo. The Tornado is really cool, but I really like that dark reddish brown strap.:-! I wonder if they ship to the US. I'll have to find out.


The dark brown one is sold in a spanish watch forum sponsored by stowa also, here you have the link (see it at the bottom):

http://www.relojes-especiales.com/foros/misc.php?do=page&template=DiModell

They only have available the dark brown with white stitching in 20mm, if it is what you neeed and you are interested just send them an e-mail or I can do it for you.

Best wishes


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I was looking at the Di-modell website and they have a 22mm size listed for the Tornado.


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## Suso (Nov 15, 2006)

I know, but at their website they only announce the black one :think::think::think: I will check spanish dealer to know if he can provide me with 22 mm tornados in dark brown with white stitching and I'll let you know.

Addition: I have already been told by spanish dealer that aged dark brown with white stitching Tornado in 22mm is a standard for Di-model, so no problem to supply this. If you don't find it at local dealers just let me know and I can send you the strap... or maybe we can buy several together to save a little money.


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

In order to keep the thread running, until Jörg blesses us with new information, here is something we haven't discussed about: ;-)

The *box*!

In a German forum, Jörg wrote: "Für die Flieger Original Handaufzug realisieren wir 
schon noch eine spezielle Verpackung - wird aber nicht Holz sein, das kann ich 
gleich schon ankündigen."

For non-german speaking members: the FO will have a *special box*, *not in wood*, though.


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Dear Jörg,

allow me a couple of questions regarding the *movement*:

1) Is the big wheel for the indirect central second gold plated and/or polished? It looks kind of raw! Is it exactly the same color as the balance cock?

2) Is the balance cock polished?

3) Is is it possible to get the funny "holder" (?) for the central second polished? This part looks raw und unfinished. The same goes for parts of the swan neck and the round parts around the incablock (why aren't they golden like the Guinand WZU-5)?

4) Is it possible to get the "SWISS" engraving golden? After all, the Stowa and the FS/AR engraving are/will be golden!

All t*hese points are not substantial* and the last two improvements (perlage under the balance wheel and the FS/AR engraving) definately made a big difference. Thank you very much for that!

But if one considers the points 1) - 4) I cannot help perceiving the movement as *not completely consistently designed, resp. lacking some love of detail* - especially so if one looks at the movements of Chronoswiss, Wempe and Guinand. If you have a different opinion, Jörg, please tell me so! Please take my opinion as constructive criticism, not as a defamation of your - still well designed - movement and work. The reason why I am so fussy is probbaly that for over a year I have been anticipating this watch (thus, the expectations grow!) and that I am an absolute maniac regarding movement finishing.


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## Paulo (Feb 14, 2006)

Personally I'm just focused on the watch, although I understand that Jörg will need to do something special, given it's a comemorative edition of Stowa's 80 years.


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## Omar Hawk (Oct 5, 2007)

Rahbari said:


> ......
> 
> But if one considers the points 1) - 4) I cannot help perceiving the movement as *not completely consistently designed, resp. lacking some love of detail* - especially so of one looks at the movements of Chronoswiss, Wempe and Guinand. If have a different opinion, Jörg, please tell me so!


Hi,
isn't this comparing apples with oranges?:think:
What is the price of Chronoswiss, Wempe or Guinand watch having the indirect driven central second? I don't have the latest Chronoswiss price list handy, but as far as I know the Chronoswiss Timemaster is about 4000Euros (please correct me if I'm wrong).
I'm pretty sure that if Jörg did a watch with a similar price like the Timemaster, the movement would be of similar if even better quality like the Timemaster movement.

Regards, Omar


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Omar Hawk said:


> Hi,
> isn't this comparing apples with oranges?:think:
> What is the price of Chronoswiss, Wempe or Guinand watch having the indirect driven central second? I don't have the latest Chronoswiss price list handy, but as far as I know the Chronoswiss Timemaster is about 4000Euros


Remember that STOWA watches are sold directly from the manufacturer, so that the 100%+X Profit for the retailer cannot be taken into account.



Omar Hawk said:


> I'm pretty sure that if Jörg did a watch with a similar price like the Timemaster, the movement would be of similar if even better quality like the Timemaster movement.


It would be interesting to know if the costs were the reason why the FO-movement was designed in exactly this way. If the costs were the limiting factor, that it is totally understandable and fine by me.


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## Jörg Schauer (May 2, 2005)

Hello,

i have to answer some open questions tomorrow.

But basicly it is not possible to change any colorcombination of the movements.
I have them now in stock and the last version will be the definetly version in the watch.
Of course i will work on the engraving of the balancebridge soon when i have the time. (i hope next week !)

I will inform here of course 

best regards

Jörg Schauer


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## Omar Hawk (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi Rahbari,
Thanks a lot for your feedback.
I agree, STOWA's pricing can't be compared to a normal watch retail pricing since the discount for the retailer is involved. What is a usual discount given to the retailer? Let's assume it's 80%, which gives us a comparable (to Stowa's FO) price of around 2200Euros (assuming the price of the Timemaster is really at 4000Euros, again please correct me if I'm wrong). Still a lot more compared to the FO price.
But I guess we can't continue the discussion in detail since Chronoswiss won't disclose their retail discount structure to us;-).
The point I wanted to make is that one has to see the price/performance relation of Stowa's products in comparison to the price/performance relation of other watch brands. Still I think the Stowa price/performance relation is super (regardless whether we talk about FO, MO, Antea etc.). But there has to be a difference between a FO limited, priced at around 1100 Euros compared to a similar watch priced at 2200 Euros (or 4000 Euros at retail).
And in order to comment your second thought. Sure I think cost is the limiting factor. Why can't Joerg fulfill all possible wishes which we express here and isn't building the most beautiful watch on the planet? Because there is cost associated to any wish to be fulfilled.
Don't get me wrong, I'm convinced that the limited FO will be a very nice watch once built and will be worth any Euro one have to pay for it. (Unfortunately I didn't make it onto the reservation list for the limited FO, I'm "just" on the list for the second series).

Have a nice weekend!

Best regards, Omar


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## Rahbari (Nov 9, 2006)

Hi, Omar!

How much margin/profit ("Marge") the retailer has depends on the individual watch firm. I have very little insight knowledge. I do know however, that some models of the Masterpiece Series from Maurice Lacroix (e.g. Flyback Annuaire, Automatique) are sold with a 200% margin. I do not have any information about Wempe or Chronoswiss.

One thing is clear: *STOWA cannot be beaten when it comes to value for money!!

That goes for the FO as well!* All I want to know from Jörg, is whether he thought of getting a better finish earlier but then resorted to the current finish due to the cost.

Hopefully you don't have to wait that long anymore, Omar! I have been waiting for nearly a year and I am totally wasted!;-)


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## thodgins (Feb 11, 2006)

Just wanted to follow up on the engraving and see how it is coming along. I look forward to the any upcoming news. Thank you.

Plus I wanted to keep this thread alive...:-d


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