# Omega discontinuing the Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional!!



## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)

When looking at the ridiculously high price of the new Speedmaster Moonwatch Calibre 321 and the gab down to the Professional, could this be the end of an era?


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## Horological-psychologist (Apr 26, 2006)

This remains to be seen. So far is pure speculation. The current line might be Omega's highest selling model. 

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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

Doubt that would happen. I think they were going to update the movement so I expect the watch to still live on but perhaps at a higher price bracket.


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## hidden by leaves (Mar 6, 2010)

Can someone please change the exclamation marks to question marks in the title of this clickbait thread?


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## 6R15 (Mar 3, 2015)

They're not discontinuing it, they're going to update it later this year with the new 3861 movement.

Don't let this forum become as wretched as TRF, please.


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## imagwai (Feb 23, 2013)

Nice clickbait title! Even if it had a question mark on the end, it would still be detestable.


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## aalin13 (Apr 2, 2010)

Don't worry about the price gap, I'm sure they will increase the price when they replace the current model with one using the 3861 movement ...


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## solesman (Dec 3, 2009)

No chance! 3861 and same aesthetic. Move along now nothing to see here.



Morgan24 said:


> When looking at the ridiculously high price of the new Speedmaster Moonwatch Calibre 321 and the gab down to the Professional, could this be the end of an era?


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

Nah, this is just the lighthouse model for the people that already own 3 other Speedys and can’t get enough, and has more authentic historical cred to move up in price since not everyone will respond to yet another fill in the blank side of the moon model.


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## jeffgo888 (Jun 13, 2013)

ok....3861 movement> will they have to recertify that with NASA?


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## B79 (Apr 27, 2014)

jeffgo888 said:


> ok....3861 movement> will they have to recertify that with NASA?


Not sure why they would.

The X-33 has been the standard issue for a while now.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

In case anyone is curious, the YouTuber Just Blue Fish is also a member of WUS. Search his handle JustBlueFish.


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## mdaclarke (Jan 31, 2015)

Will never happen. Omega will never discontinue the Moonwatch or do anything to it that would cause it to loose its NASA certification. They are (rightly) extremely proud of the Moonwatch and the fact that it is still flight qualified and used by NASA. They would not do anything to jeopardise that.


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## sea_urchin (Jun 4, 2015)

What do you think will be the price diff with the new 3861 compared to the 861, is this likely to happen this year.


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## stamsd (Jun 10, 2010)

I heard it's in response to Rolex discontinuing the Sub.


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## Micro (Apr 20, 2016)

Just me two cents here..

Omega will retain the current 1861 movement in the hesalite Speedy while upgrading the movement to the new 3821 for the sapphire crystal Speedy. That way, there is a watch for everyone from entry level to modern to most history accurate and most expensive.

Omega would not discontinue one of their most popular lines. Just as Rolex would not discontinue one of their most iconic, profitable lines. It just does not make good business sense.


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## gumpy-au (Apr 25, 2013)

Micro said:


> Just me two cents here..
> 
> Omega will retain the current 1861 movement in the hesalite Speedy while upgrading the movement to the new 3821 for the sapphire crystal Speedy. That way, there is a watch for everyone from entry level to modern to most history accurate and most expensive.
> 
> ...


make sense what you're saying, hope you're right


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## jeffgo888 (Jun 13, 2013)

exactly!! The Moonwatch is the heart and soul of Omega,,,,and so is the "pink side of the moon" model 2021....L)
sorry couldnt resist....if only we stuck with the Speedy hesalite as the premier model...


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)

Just to be sure... If you are looking to buy the Omega Speedmaster Professional, I think you should do it now!! I think there is a risk of Omega changing the movement in the Speedmasterand and raising the price. There is a good argument in the fact that the price difference between the Omega Speedmaster Professional and THE SPEEDMASTER MOONWATCH 321 STAINLESS STEEL is too high.


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## fskywalker (Jul 14, 2014)

I would not be concerned. Anyway, with the millions of Speedmaster Professional models already sold easy to pick an used one if you don’t like the new offerings by Omega !


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## dsouth (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm hoping they don't discontinue the moonwatch, I've been looking to pick one up.


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

I fell like, in the absence of any evidence that the OPs exclamatory thread topic is true, the thread title should be changed and the thread locked.

JMO, but it’s hyperbole without basis, at the moment.


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## gyang333 (Jun 12, 2010)

6R15 said:


> They're not discontinuing it, they're going to update it later this year with the new 3861 movement.
> 
> Don't let this forum become as wretched as TRF, please.


It would have to be recertified by NASA for space flight, correct?


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## B79 (Apr 27, 2014)

No. X-33 SpeedMasters are quartz and certified standard issue.


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)

Kirkawall said:


> I fell like, in the absence of any evidence that the OPs exclamatory thread topic is true, the thread title should be changed and the thread locked.
> 
> JMO, but it's hyperbole without basis, at the moment.


Dear Kirkawall. It is only to make sure that anyone who is looking into getting the Speedmaster Professional, is aware of the risk that it might be discontinued or getting a higher price tag. Have you seen the youtube video? Best regards ; )


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)

One more saying it looks like it is being discontinued.....


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## aalin13 (Apr 2, 2010)

Stop treating these random YouTubers like they are credible sources, they are no more authoritative then random forum posts. No one knows for sure what is happening except for Omega, but most will agree on the speculation that the 1861 will eventually be replaced by 3861. However, this will be an update to an existing watch, not a discontinuation.


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## MJM (Sep 16, 2009)

I doubt it’s the end of anything. Just an introduction of something new. 


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Morgan24 said:


> Dear Kirkawall. It is only to make sure that anyone who is looking into getting the Speedmaster Professional, is aware of the risk that it might be discontinued or getting a higher price tag. Have you seen the youtube video? Best regards ; )


Yes, I've seen several YT vids on this topic. I am also aware that the Speedy Pro has long been and remains a cornerstone seller for Omega, and a central part of their branding overall. Maybe they update it with a 3861/ceramic bezel/whatever and jack the price up in order to reposition it, but they may also judge that any 3861-based model must appear as a stablemate, not a replacement, just as the FOIS and sapphire sandwich have done.

I just think that a thread with this title -- which isn't framed as an interrogative but an imperative -- needs to be based on something more substantive than some vids by unaffiliated watch reviewers, or signposted as 'SPECULATION/RUMOUR,' which at this point, it is.

But I don't run the zoo, so by all mean have at 'er.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

The price point between the standard moon watch and the hand made 321 are far to large for Omega to abandon the lower cost version.


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## fantastic_planet (May 9, 2017)

I literally just left an omega boutique in Tyson’s Corner, VA (because I’ve been thinking about picking up another hesalite speedy since I sold mine a couple years ago to find another piece) and she did in fact inform me that omega will be discontinuing the 1861 hesalite and sapphire sandwich models with the new 321 model taking their place. 

Doesn’t mean that they couldn’t come out with versions of those pieces with updated movements, it just sounded like they’re just concentrating on the 321 caliber right now and stopping production and fulfillment on the 1861 pro models. 

Take that info with whatever grain of salt you want but I already reached out to my AD and put a deposit down on their last hesalite model they have in the case because who knows what could happen...


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## fantastic_planet (May 9, 2017)

To clarify above I meant the 1861 hesalite and 1863 sapphire sandwich.


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## aalin13 (Apr 2, 2010)

fantastic_planet said:


> I literally just left an omega boutique in Tysonâ€™s Corner, VA (because Iâ€™ve been thinking about picking up another hesalite speedy since I sold mine a couple years ago to find another piece) and she did in fact inform me that omega will be discontinuing the 1861 hesalite and sapphire sandwich models with the new 321 model taking their place.
> 
> Doesnâ€™t mean that they couldnâ€™t come out with versions of those pieces with updated movements, it just sounded like theyâ€™re just concentrating on the 321 caliber right now and stopping production and fulfillment on the 1861 pro models.
> 
> Take that info with whatever grain of salt you want but I already reached out to my AD and put a deposit down on their last hesalite model they have in the case because who knows what could happen...


Highly doubt that will be the case, 321 is a low volume, hand built calibre, and is sold in a completely difference price segment to the current 1861/1863. Even a direct replacement with the 321 and increasing the price is a highly unlikely scenario given the limited production quantity.


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## CellestinoHernendes (Sep 5, 2015)

fantastic_planet said:


> I literally just left an omega boutique in Tysonâ€™s Corner, VA (because Iâ€™ve been thinking about picking up another hesalite speedy since I sold mine a couple years ago to find another piece) and she did in fact inform me that omega will be discontinuing the 1861 hesalite and sapphire sandwich models with the new 321 model taking their place.
> 
> Doesnâ€™t mean that they couldnâ€™t come out with versions of those pieces with updated movements, it just sounded like theyâ€™re just concentrating on the 321 caliber right now and stopping production and fulfillment on the 1861 pro models.
> 
> Take that info with whatever grain of salt you want but I already reached out to my AD and put a deposit down on their last hesalite model they have in the case because who knows what could happen...


This would make absolutely no sense. The Moonwatch is a mass produced, relatively affordable watch, which is known to be one of Omega's best sellers. There is no way they will discontinue it in favour of the 321 Speedmaster which by all accounts will be sold in very low volume.

It is likely that the 1861/1863 will be discontinued and replaced with the 3861, and also that this will come with a significant price increase.

In my opinion if you want the 1861, and buying new from the AD (Which would never be my choice) is the route you want to go, this was still probably a good move.


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## cfracing (Feb 21, 2015)

aalin13 said:


> Highly doubt that will be the case, 321 is a low volume, hand built calibre, and is sold in a completely difference price segment to the current 1861/1863. Even a direct replacement with the 321 and increasing the price is a highly unlikely scenario given the limited production quantity.


I agree with this. Perhaps the sales person meant the 3861/63 movements would be replacing the 1861/63 and might not qualify as a "Moonwatch".


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## skriefal (Apr 3, 2006)

AD and boutique employees are not the best source of information re: Omega's plans. They typically have access to the same information that we do (i.e. guessing), plus a distinct desire to say whatever it takes to make a sale. And agreed re: 3861/3863 replacing 1861/1863.


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## hkspwrsche (Mar 3, 2007)

6R15 said:


> They're not discontinuing it, they're going to update it later this year with the new 3861 movement.
> 
> Don't let this forum become as wretched as TRF, please.


This is exactly right! Almost have to take a break from there leading up to Basel every year!


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## gumpy-au (Apr 25, 2013)

fantastic_planet said:


> I literally just left an omega boutique in Tysonâ€™s Corner, VA (because Iâ€™ve been thinking about picking up another hesalite speedy since I sold mine a couple years ago to find another piece) and she did in fact inform me that omega will be discontinuing the 1861 hesalite and sapphire sandwich models with the new 321 model taking their place.
> 
> Doesnâ€™t mean that they couldnâ€™t come out with versions of those pieces with updated movements, it just sounded like theyâ€™re just concentrating on the 321 caliber right now and stopping production and fulfillment on the 1861 pro models.
> 
> Take that info with whatever grain of salt you want but I already reached out to my AD and put a deposit down on their last hesalite model they have in the case because who knows what could happen...


Zero chance, this is a volume seller for Omega, they will be simply updating to the new master chronometer version they released last year...


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

Not sure if there's a newer thread regarding this topic. Just spoke with a few ADs and they informed me that Omega have indeed discontinued the current line with the 1861 and 1863 movements, to be replaced with a co-axial movement and a price increase somewhere in the ballpark of $400-700.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

kritameth said:


> Not sure if there's a newer thread regarding this topic. Just spoke with a few ADs and they informed me that Omega have indeed discontinued the current line with the 1861 and 1863 movements, to be replaced with a co-axial movement and a price increase somewhere in the ballpark of $400-700.


This seems a bit crazy no, to discontinue one of their most classic pieces and replace it with a coaxial movement and or only have the much more expensive 321 drop in there. Until I see something official I would be skeptical of this.


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## dayandnight (May 24, 2016)

kritameth said:


> Not sure if there's a newer thread regarding this topic. Just spoke with a few ADs and they informed me that Omega have indeed discontinued the current line with the 1861 and 1863 movements, to be replaced with a co-axial movement and a price increase somewhere in the ballpark of $400-700.


interesting that they would discontinue the 1861.

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## stamsd (Jun 10, 2010)

Mathew J said:


> This seems a bit crazy no, to discontinue one of their most classic pieces and replace it with a coaxial movement and or only have the much more expensive 321 drop in there. Until I see something official I would be skeptical of this.


I agree. They already have made several coax Speedmasters that quite frankly did not fly off the shelves. Omega has done some pretty silly things over the years, but to take away the hand-wound Speedy Pro would be insane.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

stamsd said:


> I agree. They already have made several coax Speedmasters that quite frankly did not fly off the shelves. Omega has done some pretty silly things over the years, but to take away the hand-wound Speedy Pro would be insane.


yeah and what would they gain from it? I would imagine the speedmaster isn't a volume seller for them and appeals to mainly those who know the history, love the nasa connection, or are die hard collectors....to discontinue the last true modern classic in their line and replace it with a modernized version seems like a weird move, I could see as others suggest maybe they will update the sapphire crystal version to a new movement and leave just the hesalite with the 1861....but I'd have a hard time seeing them kill off the 1861.

And with the market softening even if they did have those plans I wonder if it would make them reconsider.


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## thewodg (Dec 3, 2015)

kritameth said:


> Not sure if there's a newer thread regarding this topic. Just spoke with a few ADs and they informed me that Omega have indeed discontinued the current line with the 1861 and 1863 movements, to be replaced with a co-axial movement and a price increase somewhere in the ballpark of $400-700.


Did they say when the new model would be available for sale? I have been holding off on purchasing an 1861 to at least see what the new 3861 is like.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

I'm all for the 3861. Yes the 1861 is legendary, but if you want the legendary status you can get a 321 or the millions of 1861 watches that have been made for decades. The 3861 is still manual but basically fixes any issues the 1861 was like back of having and accuracy and whatnot. Excited to see this happen

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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

alexd3498 said:


> I'm all for the 3861. Yes the 1861 is legendary, but if you want the legendary status you can get a 321 or the millions of 1861 watches that have been made for decades. The 3861 is still manual but basically fixes any issues the 1861 was like back of having and accuracy and whatnot. Excited to see this happen
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Meh I will be on the other side of that, had always thought about getting a Moon watch again and if they do make this move chances are I will abandon the goal, can't see spending the money they are asking on a 321 and would rather put myself on a daytona list, and also the new movement just seems not as special given the co axial and all. Part of the appeal to me with the Speedy is that it was for the most part untouched by time, this will just ruin that aspect of it.


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## Paulsky (May 20, 2016)

I could definitely see Omega upgrading the 1861/63 to the 3861/63 and increasing prices. Remember they are trying hard to follow in the footsteps of Rolex, and the Crown has gradually upgraded the movements in their most iconic models, followed by price increases.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Paulsky said:


> I could definitely see Omega upgrading the 1861/63 to the 3861/63 and increasing prices. Remember they are trying hard to follow in the footsteps of Rolex, and the Crown has gradually upgraded the movements in their most iconic models, followed by price increases.


right but this was the one thing that always set Omega apart, I mean the Moonwatch still comes with the plastic crystal....if they are going to upgrade the movement why not then also just discontinue the hesalite crystal model. As I noted in another thread with Rolex and they Daytona the piece wasn't popular when first released, and they started applying upgrades in the 80s to the current day, whereas with Omega they Hesalite moonwatch has been a staple in their collection, and to change it this radically seems like it could be very love it or leave it for them, as I noted above if they did do this I am certain I would just abandon any desire to own one and instead focus on some other modern watch (Tudor black bay chrono, heritage chrono, or if spending 321 money the Daytona) as there is nothing special about another modern watch.


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## Paulsky (May 20, 2016)

Mathew J said:


> right but this was the one thing that always set Omega apart, I mean the Moonwatch still comes with the plastic crystal....if they are going to upgrade the movement why not then also just discontinue the hesalite crystal model. As I noted in another thread with Rolex and they Daytona the piece wasn't popular when first released, and they started applying upgrades in the 80s to the current day, whereas with Omega they Hesalite moonwatch has been a staple in their collection, and to change it this radically seems like it could be very love it or leave it for them, as I noted above if they did do this I am certain I would just abandon any desire to own one and instead focus on some other modern watch (Tudor black bay chrono, heritage chrono, or if spending 321 money the Daytona) as there is nothing special about another modern watch.


You make good points. But I could also see them abandoning the hesalite crystal. Already the sapphire sandwich is probably as popular as the base hesalite version. They could create a slightly more domed sapphire to mimic the hesalite. Maybe add the push extension to the clasp. To the modern non-WIS watch buyer who's looking to get his money's worth and doesn't necessarily obsess over the Apollo 11 connection, all these upgrades would make it more palatable to pay 5-6 k for a watch.


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## Nikrnic (Aug 20, 2017)

I heard the same from two Omega ADs and that the new co axial model will have a new and nicer adjustable 3 link bracelet with a wider center link. He (non boutique AD) said he heard no official release date although they should be out in the fall or end year at the latest. This was in late Feb. He also suggested buying one of his last hesalite moonwatchs at a discount saying it will most likely go up in value.
I ended up with PO and then found a 2006 Bond Seamaster here on WUS. Thinking of going back to take him up on that offer though when they finally re open June 1st.

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## Paulsky (May 20, 2016)

Nikrnic said:


> I heard the same from two Omega ADs and that the new co axial model will have a new and nicer adjustable 3 link bracelet with a wider center link. He (non boutique AD) said he heard no official release date although they should be out in the fall or end year at the latest. This was in late Feb. He also suggested buying one of his last hesalite moonwatchs at a discount saying it will most likely go up in value.
> I ended up with PO and then found a 2006 Bond Seamaster here on WUS. Thinking of going back to take him up on that offer though when they finally re open June 1st.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I have a hard time believing any of the recent hesalite Speedys will be going up in value any time in the foreseeable future. Just way too many of them. Maybe some of the older tritium models.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Paulsky said:


> I have a hard time believing any of the recent hesalite Speedys will be going up in value any time in the foreseeable future. Just way too many of them. Maybe some of the older tritium models.


Agreed and that's my point about the 3861, if you want the upgrades you'll now have it and if you want an 1861 there are literally millions to choose from and can get one highly discounted when the new model arrives

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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Paulsky said:


> You make good points. But I could also see them abandoning the hesalite crystal. Already the sapphire sandwich is probably as popular as the base hesalite version. They could create a slightly more domed sapphire to mimic the hesalite. Maybe add the push extension to the clasp. To the modern non-WIS watch buyer who's looking to get his money's worth and doesn't necessarily obsess over the Apollo 11 connection, all these upgrades would make it more palatable to pay 5-6 k for a watch.


I thought there was an interview with some Omega employees which said the hesalite model will always be in their catalog, on another forum there was speculation that the sapphire sandwhich model could get the new movement but the hesalite will retain the existing configuration, which is something I could see happening, but I couldn't imagine them dumping the hesalite model or changing it radically given all of the historical association to the piece, its really their only classic watch.



alexd3498 said:


> Agreed and that's my point about the 3861, if you want the upgrades you'll now have it and if you want an 1861 there are literally millions to choose from and can get one highly discounted when the new model arrives
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


if what you speculate is true then that would be a limited time though as you'd have to get one before they all go out of stock, and for those of us like me who don't buy used or grey market watches then either you get one now while available or your SOL and then look at other brands or options.

It will be interesting to watch but I still would be surprised if they upgrade the current hesalite moon watch.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

FWIW please take my information with a grain of salt, they are definitely not straight from those at Omega. The ADs I've spoken to seem fairly confident, however, as they said they officially are no longer receiving shipments of 1861/1863 Speedmasters, and whatever ADs currently have would be it. They implied that people should jump on these now, since there will be a period of supply shortage as Omega shifts to the new models, driving up the prices of the current models. I don't really agree. Even if such was the case I can't see the trend continuing long-term, as so many have been produced. Personally, I'd like to see the 1861/1863 continuing on, but I can see why Omega would want to shift to the 3861, including moving upmarket, closing the price gap between the standard models and 321, and adopting anti-magnetism across their lines. Like what some of you have said, maybe Omega will keep the Hesalite as is, and upgrade the sapphire sandwich to the new 3861. I think that would do a fine job catering to their respective market audience, and would be a neat move.


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)

Paulsky said:


> I have a hard time believing any of the recent hesalite Speedys will be going up in value any time in the foreseeable future. Just way too many of them. Maybe some of the older tritium models.


How many Rolex Submariners do you think there are out there......... The market is flooded with used Submariners worldwide and it seems everybody has one. So you cannot use that argument ; ))


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

kritameth said:


> FWIW please take my information with a grain of salt, they are definitely not straight from those at Omega. The ADs I've spoken to seem fairly confident, however, as they said they officially are no longer receiving shipments of 1861/1863 Speedmasters, and whatever ADs currently have would be it. They implied that people should jump on these now, since there will be a period of supply shortage as Omega shifts to the new models, driving up the prices of the current models. I don't really agree. Even if such was the case I can't see the trend continuing long-term, as so many have been produced. Personally, I'd like to see the 1861/1863 continuing on, but I can see why Omega would want to shift to the 3861, including moving upmarket, closing the price gap between the standard models and 321, and adopting anti-magnetism across their lines. Like what some of you have said, maybe Omega will keep the Hesalite as is, and upgrade the sapphire sandwich to the new 3861. I think that would do a fine job catering to their respective market audience, and would be a neat move.


If you're also in MA and they are local ADs then not sure how much stock I would put in that info...just knowing who carries the line now locally. Will be interesting to see but if they do make this move I might jump on one this year even though I hadn't planned on it.


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## hidden by leaves (Mar 6, 2010)

kritameth said:


> FWIW please take my information with a grain of salt, they are definitely not straight from those at Omega. The ADs I've spoken to seem fairly confident, however, as they said they officially are no longer receiving shipments of 1861/1863 Speedmasters, and whatever ADs currently have would be it.


Have you and your ADs noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic?

Frankly it sounds like something was lost in translation or you're just talking out your a$$.


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

Morgan24 said:


> How many Rolex Submariners do you think there are out there......... The market is flooded with used Submariners worldwide and it seems everybody has one. So you cannot use that argument ; ))


I agree. Out in the wild I've seen many Subs but never a Speedy. We live in the WUS bubble


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

hidden by leaves said:


> Have you and your ADs noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic?
> 
> Frankly it sounds like something was lost in translation or you're just talking out your a$$.


Me? Not really, been too busy collaborating on a clinical trial for something called COVID-19. Not sure what to tell you, other than, again, I'm just reiterating what I've heard from ADs, including Topper and Manfredi. I assure you we spokened in Engrish.



rjohnson56 said:


> I agree. Out in the wild I've seen many Subs but never a Speedy. We live in the WUS bubble


For some reasons I've seen more Speedy than Subs.. maybe the eye sees what it wants to see


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## 8100 RPM (Feb 12, 2017)

kritameth said:


> For some reasons I've seen more Speedy than Subs.. maybe the eye sees what it wants to see


I see a lot more Subs than Speedmasters out in the wild. A lot of it depends on where you are located and what industry you work in.


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## ed21x (Feb 11, 2011)

rjohnson56 said:


> I agree. Out in the wild I've seen many Subs but never a Speedy. We live in the WUS bubble


Out in the wild, there are actually way more Constellations (around half of all Omegas sold), while Seamasters (including the Aqua Terra), Planet Oceans all sell more than the Speedmaster Pro. The Speedy is a very niche watch, unlike a Submariner. WUS is an interesting bubble 

This is why I think it would make more sense for Omega to upmarket this line as they are obviously using it as their flag bearer despite it ironically being one of their cheapest watch. A Speedmaster should be more expensive given its brand, heritage, and iconic status. I would say $5-6000 would be a more reasonable price with 0 discounting.


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## ed21x (Feb 11, 2011)

double post >_<


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## umarrajs (Oct 18, 2012)

If they are going to stop selling 1861, then I guess it will make more sense once they are able to get the NASA certification for 3861. Any whispers on that front?

As others have pointed out, very few among non-WIS/non-Space lore folks care for the 1861 SMP among the Omega line-up.
Getting a certification and bringing in a guns-blazing ad campaign may do the trick for the 3861 IMO.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

umarrajs said:


> If they are going to stop selling 1861, then I guess it will make more sense once they are able to get the NASA certification for 3861. Any whispers on that front?
> 
> As others have pointed out, very few among non-WIS/non-Space lore folks care for the 1861 SMP among the Omega line-up.
> Getting a certification and bringing in a guns-blazing ad campaign may do the trick for the 3861 IMO.


I wonder if NASA will even bother though, and will it be the same test as in the past? I am guessing no.


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## oztech (Apr 30, 2015)

IMO this would be like Rolex killing the OP line i really don't see this happening and with the world economy hurt by a pandemic also the Speedmaster Pro is not their most affordable watch the SMP is priced lower.


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## umarrajs (Oct 18, 2012)

Mathew J said:


> I wonder if NASA will even bother though, and will it be the same test as in the past? I am guessing no.


What I meant was (Omega's response to Jack Forster-Hodinkee's Question)

"If OMEGA decides in the future to discontinue the 1861, we can imagine subjecting the 3861 to the same NASA tests of 1965. These, however, would likely be undertaken independently by OMEGA in Switzerland, with the results being submitted to NASA. This would be the same method that NASA approved in 1978, when we tested our Alaska III prototypes containing the calibre 861 and sent the results to NASA."


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

umarrajs said:


> What I meant was (Omega's response to Jack Forster-Hodinkee's Question)
> 
> "If OMEGA decides in the future to discontinue the 1861, we can imagine subjecting the 3861 to the same NASA tests of 1965. These, however, would likely be undertaken independently by OMEGA in Switzerland, with the results being submitted to NASA. This would be the same method that NASA approved in 1978, when we tested our Alaska III prototypes containing the calibre 861 and sent the results to NASA."


right I get that but its not the same, part of the allure of the 1861 is that it was the actual movement (or a derivative of) the one which went through the real NASA tests, not just some mocked up tests done by omega and then rubber stamped by NASA.

Until Omega announces something I find it hard to believe they will do anything to the Hesalite pro model .... I know they have done some crazy and weird stuff, but it would be like them killing a big part of their history and I could see anyone interested in the NASA connection viewing this as a turnoff, I know it would for me. The space fanatics seem to be a pretty die hard group.


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## Elver (Sep 6, 2019)

Had an AD tell me the same. They are not receiving any more speedy pros even though they are open.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

I remember I could have gotten a Hesalite Speedy Pro from an EU AD for $3300 a few months ago. I wonder how hard I'm going to kick myself years from now for passing on that. Hopefully not very hard.


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## Bama214 (Aug 30, 2015)

rjohnson56 said:


> I agree. Out in the wild I've seen many Subs but never a Speedy. We live in the WUS bubble


A large percentage of those Subs were probably homages or replicas. Fortunately, the replica market for Speedmasters is smaller.


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## Bobthekelpy (Dec 20, 2019)

kritameth said:


> I remember I could have gotten a Hesalite Speedy Pro from an EU AD for $3300 a few months ago. I wonder how hard I'm going to kick myself years from now for passing on that. Hopefully not very hard.


The Hesalite Speedmaster is next on my list and am starting to wonder the same thing..


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

Bobthekelpy said:


> The Hesalite Speedmaster is next on my list and am starting to wonder the same thing..


It fell off the list for me a while back, after I got a Sinn 356. But if it's on your list I think now is a really good time to buy. Here are some thoughts on this from one of my favorite YouTube watch channels, JustBlueFish Watch Reviews.


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## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

8100 RPM said:


> I see a lot more Subs than Speedmasters out in the wild. A lot of it depends on where you are located and what industry you work in.


It's funny. I've worked at 2 NASA centers for 30 years and I have seen 5 Speedmaster Professionals in that time. I've seen 5 Submariners a month it seems like. I don't doubt there are areas where people see lots of Speedmasters. You'd just think that in the communities around the space centers you'd see more of them, but I don't. And I look at what's on everyone's wrist.

Oh, and put me in the group that is skeptical of Omega ditching the basic Speedmaster. That's been their bellcow for years, and I was just reading somewhere where an Omega spokesman basically said the company owed it's business life to the Speedmaster, riding it through the quartz crisis and eleventy-seven different special editions. So I doubt they would drop that one. But I can absolutely see them adding another one....dozen editions.


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## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

umarrajs said:


> If they are going to stop selling 1861, then I guess it will make more sense once they are able to get the NASA certification for 3861. Any whispers on that front?
> 
> As others have pointed out, very few among non-WIS/non-Space lore folks care for the 1861 SMP among the Omega line-up.
> Getting a certification and bringing in a guns-blazing ad campaign may do the trick for the 3861 IMO.


NASA's not recertifying a mechanical Speedmaster. They are already obsolete in NASA stock though the Russians still issue them to cosmonauts and astronauts that fly through Russia (and that number of astronauts is about to go waaaaaaay down now that we have the capability to launch astronauts from KSC again - thanks SpaceX). FWIW, I suspect Russia issues Speedmasters because Omega pays them to do so. The Russians are great capitalists and never miss an opportunity to make a buck.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

What impresses me is how silent omega has been about this, I wish they would've been like breitling this year and make debuts after debuts of insanely good pieces 

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## tcritchley80 (Aug 2, 2014)

Ordered a hesalite speedy pro today. This has spurred me on combined with a landmark birthday in a few weeks. Been wanting one for ages and feels great to have one on the way!

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## anaplian (Jan 4, 2014)

Could Omega still style a 3861-powered Speedmaster Pro "The Moonwatch"? I think that it's a stretch, is Omega really ready to drop the Moonwatch moniker?

Yes, the 1861 is different to the 321 - but it's pretty darn close.


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## julian74 (Jul 2, 2010)

As far as the watch itself is concerned, it's inevitable that it will evolve. Heck, it already has! Otherwise it would still be a symmetrical case with 321 movement. Kudos to Omega for having kept it as close to the original as possible. It's really neat that while everyone else is releasing re-issues of older models and vintage-looking new models Omega has kept up with virtually the same formula. I look forward to see:
- 3861 movement (isn't it the co-axial version of the 1861 with silicon spring and hacking, otherwise the same?)
- Sapphire glass that is curved so it looks like the hesalite model and doesn't show the milky ring
- Ceramic bezel
- Still 42mm, asymmetrical case 

As far as the 'moonwatch' part is concerned, that is trickier. Someone suggested that Omega could do the same original tests, and I'd be fine with that. Does NASA even qualify watches any more?? I'd be curious to learn more on this aspect if someone knows something. I know that the X-33 has the OK from NASA as well as nearly every G-Shock on the planet, but all pictures I've seen of astronauts doing an EVA the only watch I see is the Speedmaster. Is it possible that EVAs are still only possible with the speedy? That would be incredibly cool if it were true (in which case I would hope a hesalite version to continue to be on the menu.


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## gyang333 (Jun 12, 2010)

rfortson said:


> NASA's not recertifying a mechanical Speedmaster. They are already obsolete in NASA stock though the Russians still issue them to cosmonauts and astronauts that fly through Russia (and that number of astronauts is about to go waaaaaaay down now that we have the capability to launch astronauts from KSC again - thanks SpaceX). FWIW, I suspect Russia issues Speedmasters because Omega pays them to do so. The Russians are great capitalists and never miss an opportunity to make a buck.


This is a great point. _*If*_ NASA agrees to certify a new Speedmaster, then I don't doubt Omega tries to make more money by introducing a new iteration. If NASA says no way, then I don't see Omega getting rid of that link to their space and moon mission heritage.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

julian74 said:


> As far as the watch itself is concerned, it's inevitable that it will evolve. Heck, it already has! Otherwise it would still be a symmetrical case with 321 movement. Kudos to Omega for having kept it as close to the original as possible. It's really neat that while everyone else is releasing re-issues of older models and vintage-looking new models Omega has kept up with virtually the same formula. I look forward to see:
> - 3861 movement (isn't it the co-axial version of the 1861 with silicon spring and hacking, otherwise the same?)
> - Sapphire glass that is curved so it looks like the hesalite model and doesn't show the milky ring
> - Ceramic bezel
> ...


According to this article: https://www.fratellowatches.com/speedmaster-became-moonwatch/

The 861 of which the 1861 is directly descended is the last movement NASA actually put through the tests themselves and certified.

Also it was noted above there was an interview with some Omega executives where they said if they do upgrade the movement then Omega would run the tests internally and submit the findings to NASA much like they did with the Alaska project Speedmasters.

Speaking for myself if they change the movement drastically to include a co axial and then certify it internally it won't be the same....part of the charm of the 1861 is that it is virtually identical to the movement (other than rhodium plating) which went though the actual tests that NASA performed...it was truly certified for space flight in a time when things were much different and these were actual tools to be used for an intended purpose.

Just making something that looks the same, but has totally different parts and then stamping on a certification just would be less special.


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

julian74 said:


> As far as the watch itself is concerned, it's inevitable that it will evolve. Heck, it already has! Otherwise it would still be a symmetrical case with 321 movement. Kudos to Omega for having kept it as close to the original as possible. It's really neat that while everyone else is releasing re-issues of older models and vintage-looking new models Omega has kept up with virtually the same formula. I look forward to see:
> - 3861 movement (isn't it the co-axial version of the 1861 with silicon spring and hacking, otherwise the same?)
> - Sapphire glass that is curved so it looks like the hesalite model and doesn't show the milky ring
> - Ceramic bezel
> ...


I've read that G-Shocks and similar digital watches are not used on EVAs. If I recall the reason had something to do with the electronics not able to handle the extreme temperatures.


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## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

anaplian said:


> Could Omega still style a 3861-powered Speedmaster Pro "The Moonwatch"? I think that it's a stretch, is Omega really ready to drop the Moonwatch moniker?
> 
> Yes, the 1861 is different to the 321 - but it's pretty darn close.


The 1861 is basically the same as the 861, which WAS qualified for space flight by NASA, so that's not much of a stretch. 321 to 861 is more of a change going from a column-wheel to cam operated chronograph.


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## markfoto40 (Jan 14, 2020)

ed21x said:


> Out in the wild, there are actually way more Constellations (around half of all Omegas sold), while Seamasters (including the Aqua Terra), Planet Oceans all sell more than the Speedmaster Pro. The Speedy is a very niche watch, unlike a Submariner. WUS is an interesting bubble
> 
> This is why I think it would make more sense for Omega to upmarket this line as they are obviously using it as their flag bearer despite it ironically being one of their cheapest watch. A Speedmaster should be more expensive given its brand, heritage, and iconic status. I would say $5-6000 would be a more reasonable price with 0 discounting.


Interesting perspective

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turb0wned (Feb 15, 2013)

How do you guys think this will affect the Apollo 8 with basically the same movement? Think that one might be coming to an end as well?


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## johnson184 (Jan 23, 2014)

Do you guys think the new 3861 will also get a ceramic bezel? 

I'm hoping to acquire my first ever Speedmaster, but I heard that Speedmasters can be a bit of a scratch magnet.


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## Covenant (Apr 22, 2009)

johnson184 said:


> Do you guys think the new 3861 will also get a ceramic bezel?
> 
> I'm hoping to acquire my first ever Speedmaster, but I heard that Speedmasters can be a bit of a scratch magnet.


I'd love that. If Omega released a METAS Speedy Pro with ceramic bezel at a reasonable mark-up I'd buy one. I love the styling of the Speedy, but I want the cutting edge of Omega tech to go along with it.


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## markfoto40 (Jan 14, 2020)

Micro said:


> Just me two cents here..
> 
> Omega will retain the current 1861 movement in the hesalite Speedy while upgrading the movement to the new 3821 for the sapphire crystal Speedy. That way, there is a watch for everyone from entry level to modern to most history accurate and most expensive.
> 
> ...


Agreed, especially, in light of the historic SpaceX mission and the renewed focus on astronauts and NASA.


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## GrimFandango (May 8, 2018)

I think something can be said for this line of reasoning. Perhaps discontinuing is the wrong word but there is reason to suspect that Omega may move the Speedmaster more upmarket than it has been so far. Omega has been increasing prices dramatically. Just last year, I believe in May and October, there were two price hikes of about 10% each. The hesalite Speedmaster is now 4.700 euro in my country while it was only 3.900 euros a couple of years ago. And that aggressive price increase has been something we have been seeing from Omega for years. Since the 2000's the prices of Omega watches have more than doubled.

My own personal take is that they realized that the Omega brand can demand a much higher premium (due to heritage, technical competence, brand recognition) and they started increasing prices to capitalize on this. I think a decision was made to position Omega as a higher level of luxury brand and they are still continuing that trend. The Speedmaster may also be included in this direction. A great way to move it more upscale while staying true to its heritage is to change the movement (either revert to 321 or improve 1861) and offer it in precious metals. And that is exactly what Omega has been doing. I would not be surprised if these kinds of models replace the regular Speedmaster in time as these price increases continue.


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## AOYE (Sep 30, 2016)

GrimFandango said:


> I think something can be said for this line of reasoning. Perhaps discontinuing is the wrong word but there is reason to suspect that Omega may move the Speedmaster more upmarket than it has been so far. Omega has been increasing prices dramatically. Just last year, I believe in May and October, there were two price hikes of about 10% each. The hesalite Speedmaster is now 4.700 euro in my country while it was only 3.900 euros a couple of years ago. And that aggressive price increase has been something we have been seeing from Omega for years. Since the 2000's the prices of Omega watches have more than doubled.
> 
> My own personal take is that they realized that the Omega brand can demand a much higher premium (due to heritage, technical competence, brand recognition) and they started increasing prices to capitalize on this. I think a decision was made to position Omega as a higher level of luxury brand and they are still continuing that trend. The Speedmaster may also be included in this direction. A great way to move it more upscale while staying true to its heritage is to change the movement (either revert to 321 or improve 1861) and offer it in precious metals. And that is exactly what Omega has been doing. I would not be surprised if these kinds of models replace the regular Speedmaster in time as these price increases continue.


I totally agree, this is the point...

... at the end, the thing that we all want to know is if the 1861 will still be in production or is going to be replaced by the 3861.


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## horseShu (May 27, 2017)

it would make sense from a manufacturing perspective.
the moonwatch is among the few Omega models that are still using non co-axial movements.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Plus people are starting to care a lot about cosc and metas and whatnot and when even miyota movements have hacking seconds, people who aren't moon history obsessed like I am start to not see the 1861/63 as attractive for the price 

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## markfoto40 (Jan 14, 2020)

GrimFandango said:


> I think something can be said for this line of reasoning. Perhaps discontinuing is the wrong word but there is reason to suspect that Omega may move the Speedmaster more upmarket than it has been so far. Omega has been increasing prices dramatically. Just last year, I believe in May and October, there were two price hikes of about 10% each. The hesalite Speedmaster is now 4.700 euro in my country while it was only 3.900 euros a couple of years ago. And that aggressive price increase has been something we have been seeing from Omega for years. Since the 2000's the prices of Omega watches have more than doubled.
> 
> My own personal take is that they realized that the Omega brand can demand a much higher premium (due to heritage, technical competence, brand recognition) and they started increasing prices to capitalize on this. I think a decision was made to position Omega as a higher level of luxury brand and they are still continuing that trend. The Speedmaster may also be included in this direction. A great way to move it more upscale while staying true to its heritage is to change the movement (either revert to 321 or improve 1861) and offer it in precious metals. And that is exactly what Omega has been doing. I would not be surprised if these kinds of models replace the regular Speedmaster in time as these price increases continue.


Great point! Agreed

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roningrad (Aug 2, 2018)

Great points of view guys. Thanks. Unfortunately I’m way behind everyone. No doubt I want me a speed master but haven’t gone past the FOIS vs.MOTM deliberations yet.


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## bbuckbbuck (Jun 16, 2014)

yes the hesalite is unavailable on the website.


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

bbuckbbuck said:


> yes the hesalite is unavailable on the website.


I can still find it


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## thewodg (Dec 3, 2015)

Anyone have any insight as to when the new model will be released?


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

rjohnson56 said:


> I can still find it


So did I, in the Australian webpage.

I think a few members are ahead of themselves here...


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## threewood (Sep 28, 2011)

The Speedy Pro is showing as unavailable on Omega's website. I hope it is just being updated and not discontinued.


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## thewodg (Dec 3, 2015)

threewood said:


> The Speedy Pro is showing as unavailable on Omega's website. I hope it is just being updated and not discontinued.


Same for me. Hope this is because the 3861 is imminent and not due to the pandemic.


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## aalin13 (Apr 2, 2010)

Still showing up as normal on the Australian website. Either way, there's no way this model is going to be discontinued, it's one of their most iconic model.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Gone here in the american website too 

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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Still available on CDN website.


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## susano (Jan 28, 2019)

It appears to still be available on the leather strap on the U.S. site. Also both sapphire sandwich models are available. I'm hoping to pick one up "soonish" so I hope it doesn't get discontinued but I don't think that would happen. What I'm more afraid of is a significant price increase after the new movement.


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

Still on the Swedish site










LOoOser in the brotherhood


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

It's back in stock on the US site no changes

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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

If anything Omega will likely add another variant of Speedmaster with 4 different variants and maybe a rose gold option to make the Speedmaster catalogue even bigger and more confusing.  What's more is that you can now also get Man on the Moon sunglasses to go with your watch.


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## RazorFrazer (Dec 23, 2013)

Cod Holliday said:


> If anything Omega will likely add another variant of Speedmaster with 4 different variants and maybe a rose gold option to make the Speedmaster catalogue even bigger and more confusing.  What's more is that you can now also get Man on the Moon sunglasses to go with your watch.


where do i get said motm sunglasses.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

So, consensus is that there's nothing to see here and the good old Speedy Pro will be back on the international Omega site any moment now (because currently none of the 1861/1863 based models seem to be available directly from the international site)?

(I'd be bummed when it turns out I've procrastinated just a week too long before ordering my Sapphire Sandwich and seeing it replaced by a more upmarket model.)


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Honestly, I have no clue what's going on anymore 

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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)




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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)

According to Bruce Williams it might be last chance to get the Speedmaster at 5000-6000$.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

It's possible but would be a terrible idea. Moonwatches shouldn't be 7 to 8k i mean the 2018 seamaster update was HUGE massive improvement in movement and quality and didn't go up in price that much 

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## turb0wned (Feb 15, 2013)

What do you guys think will happen with the Apollo 8’s 1869 since it’s just a decorated 1861?


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

More fuel for the fire. Jaguarshark just posted this in another thread.



Jaguarshark said:


> I was told by my boutique that its discontinued and all stock in stores is whats left. Mine just sold the last of them. Only the co-axial will be coming in from now on.


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

rjohnson56 said:


> More fuel for the fire. Jaguarshark just posted this in another thread.


I'm not making a prediction either way, but I was at an AD here in Vancouver yesterday and they've just received 4 Hesalite Speedy Pros this past week.

The sales associate, who's a watch enthusiast himself, claims that in the near future the 3861 will be replacing the 1861 and 1863 movements in the Speemaster Professional lineup. Now, whether that means OMEGA will continue to have a Hesalite with engraved caseback AND a sapphire sandwich version remains to be seen.

I'm my opinion, everything is speculation until OMEGA unveils their new Speemaster lineup. It's fun to speculate though...so keep it coming. We can all use the entertainment.

René


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## iTreelex (Feb 27, 2014)

Omega is getting desperate to be on Rolex's level... Yikes. Bold move as the speedmaster is the udder with which Omega has been milking for decades


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

Thinking about this more this could be Omega taking a page from the Rolex playbook. There’s no shortage of 1861s but if they move to replace the Speedmaster line with co-axial movements this would create more hype for the Speedy; at least for the small population of WIS.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Titan II said:


> I'm my opinion, everything is speculation until OMEGA unveils their new Speemaster lineup. It's fun to speculate though...so keep it coming.


Ok, let's play this game.

I doubt they'll tinker too much with the form factor. They'll instantly lose at least half their sales if they change their moonwatch too obviously. So what's left then beside the 3861 movement?

Their twisted lugs design is pretty much a brand signature for Omega, so if they'd change that, they'll probably do that across their main portfolio. Have we seen any hints of that yet?

So I'd guess we could see a ceramic/enamel tachymeter bezel, new bracelet with fancier clasp (micro-adjustable), updated faceplate - probably a slightly different finishing with applied logo.

I'm not sure what else they could change (beside introducing precious materials or sci-fi-grade steel such as Sinn's tegimented steel treatment) without losing the "moonwatch" claim to fame?

Key question: would that be enough to warrant a substantial markup as rumored?


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

I also doubt that they’ll change too much of the original design as the case and lugs scream Omega. My guess is they’ll update the movement, add a sapphire crystal and maybe a ceramic bezel and call it a day. Then raise the price to slightly above the D300m to create two entry level pieces in the two lines.


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

What do you guys think the chances are of them continuing to produce the "Moonwatch" as it is today...same case, engraved caseback, same tachy bezel insert, Hesalite crystal, 1861 movement, and maybe just with an updated bracelet.

The sapphire sandwich would be the model to get the upgraded 3861 movement and all the other talked about changes.

If they chose to do it this way they manage to hang onto the First Watch Worn on the Moon legacy and keep their history with NASA relevant.

My only question with this scenario is...would it be a big to-do to continue to manufacture the 1861 for the "Moonwatch"? Thoughts?

René

This thread is lacking pictures;


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## thewodg (Dec 3, 2015)

I'd be a bit disappointed. I would love to see a hesalite crystal (unless they can fix the ring) with the 3861!


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

My concern is the AD's wording "The Speedy Pro is being discontinued".

Looking at all the info on their website it's hard to believe that they'd discontinue this iconic watch instead of making a minor update (whatever that might be) so that they can continue with the evolution from 321 to 861 to 1861 to ? And in doing so keep all the info on their website.

And since it's Tuesday here's a pic from this morning.


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)

Ceramic bezel, enamel dial, 3861 movement, glidelock. Huge improvements = huge price increase 🤪


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

I really doubt they would mess with the "real" Speedy Pro (hesalite).


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## SamuraiPT (Apr 11, 2018)

Just to be on the safe side... I'm buying the standard hesalite Moonwatch this July 21st


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## codemonkey80 (Jul 9, 2020)

Really tired, is it possible to get the new version by this year?


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## WastedYears (May 21, 2015)

I too have been inormed by my watch guy that the current model is being discontinued and an updated one, or a new release is due in autumn this year. Whatever the new model is, it will be more expensive than the current one, which is why he himself is getting one now while they're still available.

Whatever the new model lools like, I for one just hope they change the bracelet to something more fitting, like the flat-link one on the Ed White.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Is there any correlation between availability on the Omega website and what's being shipped to dealers? The one with the leather strap I have on order is the only one that's been consistently unavailable on their website. If there's a risk of missing out I'd happily change the order to the steel bracelet one (even though I'd never wear it on the bracelet).

This rumor mill is really making me nervous.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

WastedYears said:


> I too have been inormed by my watch guy that the current model is being discontinued and an updated one, or a new release is due in autumn this year. Whatever the new model is, it will be more expensive than the current one, which is why he himself is getting one now while they're still available.
> 
> Whatever the new model lools like, I for one just hope they change the bracelet to something more fitting, like the flat-link one on the Ed White.


You really think the older model will sell out this quick? Could it come down in price after the new model is released to clear old stock?


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## WastedYears (May 21, 2015)

anonymousmoose said:


> You really think the older model will sell out this quick? Could it come down in price after the new model is released to clear old stock?


I have no idea. I don't think anyone does.

If you are in the market for a brand new one, I'd think you should still be able to get one with a discount, and I doubt second hand market will see a rise in price what with so many being available.
In fact, you could argue that if the new one is very popular, it might even drive the price of the current one on the 2nd hand market down.


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## M.N.A (Sep 1, 2013)

WastedYears said:


> I have no idea. I don't think anyone does.
> 
> If you are in the market for a brand new one, I'd think you should still be able to get one with a discount, and I doubt second hand market will see a rise in price what with so many being available.
> In fact, you could argue that if the new one is very popular, it might even drive the price of the current one on the 2nd hand market down.


I don't think availability affect pricing, its demand and popularity, Rolex steel models are widely available both new and used but due to high popularity and perception prices keep going up constantly...

In the speed master case, the watch is very cheap compared to its history and status in addition to being the most iconic watch in the Omega line up. As such, Omega needs to increase the price specially when all the popular models in Rolex, AP, and PP have increased in pricing in the last few years, and in order to do so they will reintroduce the watch and price it accordingly (in my opinion 25% to 40%). This will increase the value of the existing models as the price difference will be significant just my 2 cents...


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## es335 (Oct 10, 2007)

Any rumors on when the revised standard steel Moonwatch will be released?


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

It's not even sure anything will change about the speedy pro. It's clearly not discontinued since I can just go to the omega website and order one...


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)




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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

Nonsense and speculation. I can just go to the omega website and order a hesalite speedy pro on steel bracelet, it's in stock and arrives within 1 to 3 days, I just checked it again 2 minutes ago.


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## Kinboat (Nov 30, 2018)

According to the salesman at my local Omega boutique the current moonwatch has been discontinued. Then again he also said I better act quick and get one if I want it, so I'm not so sure about it


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## Mickey® (Feb 26, 2012)

Just a money grab give me a 1861 all day long. Come to think about it when Omega went to Co-Axil no matter how superior it was/is I stopped buying.
Many times improvements for the sake of price increase...in my opinion and I don't need them.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

Ok, given the rumours of the Speedy pro with the original moon watch movement being discontinued.... I'm seriously considering buying one. 

I've never been the biggest speedy fan but this time I'm thinking of buying with my head rather than my heart. I keep missing WIS opportunities... passing on a watch only to find it out of my range a few years later.

Which Speedmaster is the moon watch to go for? I'll keep an eye out for new or used.


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## Ryan1881 (Feb 22, 2019)

anonymousmoose said:


> Ok, given the rumours of the Speedy pro with the original moon watch movement being discontinued.... I'm seriously considering buying one.
> 
> I've never been the biggest speedy fan but this time I'm thinking of buying with my head rather than my heart. I keep missing WIS opportunities... passing on a watch only to find it out of my range a few years later.
> 
> Which Speedmaster is the moon watch to go for? I'll keep an eye out for new or used.


Interested to see the answers as I may be after one to.


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## bounce (May 31, 2010)

anonymousmoose said:


> Ok, given the rumours of the Speedy pro with the original moon watch movement being discontinued.... I'm seriously considering buying one.
> 
> I've never been the biggest speedy fan but this time I'm thinking of buying with my head rather than my heart. I keep missing WIS opportunities... passing on a watch only to find it out of my range a few years later.
> 
> Which Speedmaster is the moon watch to go for? I'll keep an eye out for new or used.


This is the model No of the latest incarnation of Speedy Pro Hesalite. 311.30.42.30.01.005. Retails about £4K in the UK.


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

The Speedy Pro (hesalite) isn't discontinued. I can order it today from omega watches . com, both the hesalite and sapphire sandwich, they are in stock and delivered within 1 to 3 days. Stop spreading fake news.


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## limnoman (Mar 6, 2018)

enkrypt said:


> The Speedy Pro (hesalite) isn't discontinued. I can order it today from omega watches . com, both the hesalite and sapphire sandwich, they are in stock and delivered within 1 to 3 days. Stop spreading fake news.


The fake news is a rumor from several WUS receiving information from their ADs that they (the ADs) were not getting anymore Speedy .005s. Just a rumor so we'll have to wait and see.

This info could also simply mean that the .005 will be slightly tweaked and given a new reference.


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

In general an AD knows nothing at all. They all pretend to be "in the know" about discontinuations, new releases, price increases etc, but they just ramble whatever nonsense is needed to get YOU to buy NOW.

Several models from Omega (and other brands) have had delivery problems the past months mainly because of Covid19 messing up production and delivery. 

But as you can very easily confirm on the official omega website, the speedy pro is in stock and readily available.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

I had to wait 3 months for my Sapphire Sandwich but eventually it came last week.

However, it’s almost certain that later this year the 1861/1863 models will be replaced by a handwound 3861 Co-Axial model.

Omega has wanted (and announced intention) to make their entire portfolio Chronometer certified for some time now. The Speedy Pro/FOIS are the only slackers left in the catalogue right now.


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## the.hatter (Jun 9, 2009)

Both could be true - some lag between a watch model being discontinued and all available stock being sold out? 

Unless Omega would immediately pull the plug and destroy/save for parts the remaining inventory?

It’s also a question of when, not if, the model changes (at least in reference number). I cannot go to Omega and order the exact reference of the original Speedmaster, because it’s changed over the years. It will most certainly continue to do so in the future.


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

Well I had another look this morning for kicks. There are still 005 Hesalite Speedys shipping. Could be part of their remaining stock or mean nothing and the model could still be in full production.


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

jkpa said:


> Well I had another look this morning for kicks. There are still 005 Hesalite Speedys shipping. Could be part of their remaining stock or mean nothing and the model could still be in full production.


Funny enough, the sapphire sandwich on steel was out of stock for a few days when I checked like a week ago, but today it is back in stock and ready to be shipped.
Which is, in my mind, proof that they are still being produced (unless they discovered a batch of them in a forgotten basement closet).


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## alming1132 (May 17, 2017)

thought it was april fools day for a second there....no way they discontinue the moonwatch!


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## alllexandru (Nov 5, 2010)

Not yet but they do have a price increase as of today, cheers 🍻


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## MONTANTK (May 8, 2019)

alllexandru said:


> Not yet but they do have a price increase as of today, cheers ?


Is it reflected on their website yet? Only asking because I was told there would be no increase in the US and as of now I don't see any increase in the US.


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## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

enkrypt said:


> Nonsense and speculation. I can just go to the omega website and order a hesalite speedy pro on steel bracelet, it's in stock and arrives within 1 to 3 days, I just checked it again 2 minutes ago.


In related news, Rolex is discontinuing the Submariner. I saw it in a YouTube video so it must be true.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

No price increase in Belgium, and it's in stock.


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## thewodg (Dec 3, 2015)

September 2 and no price increase in US. Good news!


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## M.N.A (Sep 1, 2013)

Today in Federico talks watches video which was about under valued vintage watches and while I was watching, Federico's guest mentioned around minute 7 with what it seems as absolute certainty that OMEGA will discontinue the 1861 with 3861 and that the current model will appreciate in value...


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)




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## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

Morgan24 said:


>


Still for sale. Can order it directly from Omega's website.


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

Nothing particularly new to state here, but a few retailers told me it'll be discontinued end of year. Of course they are still available and at the usual discounts, so if anyone has been on the fence, now is as good a time as any to jump onboard.


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## gyang333 (Jun 12, 2010)

For anyone (I'm in that group) on the fence, might be a good time to buy one used. That way if they don't get discontinued and for whatever reason you want to move on from it, you don't take a big loss. And if they are getting discontinued, they might go up in value which would be a nice bonus in the event of a sale.


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## vlpix (Feb 11, 2020)

For FOIS i have walked in 3 Omega Dealers in Tokyo and they all said that the model is discontinued


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## misterkevlar (Jan 28, 2020)

Morgan24 said:


>


I have never been a fan of this guy, feels like hes always trying to sell you something (even more than others on tube if thats possible) with his super slick yema reviews...and this video is pure click bait I wont be watching him any more!.

Mine arrived a few weeks ago I knew I wanted one for ages and hearing the rumours decided no time like the present, I cant see them just ending the watch i'm sure it will get a new movement and some slight changes which will be interesting I really love mine it really did get under my skin and I get why people love them so much.

Mines sat along side my Tin Tin - now I thought I was a bit mad ending up with both, but they are in fact quite different which is a nice bonus.


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## misterkevlar (Jan 28, 2020)

gyang333 said:


> For anyone (I'm in that group) on the fence, might be a good time to buy one used. That way if they don't get discontinued and for whatever reason you want to move on from it, you don't take a big loss. And if they are getting discontinued, they might go up in value which would be a nice bonus in the event of a sale.


I watched a few ending on ebay here in the uk used and i literally paid the same for a new one all be it I had to wait about 12 weeks for it.


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

End of november now, and the Speedy Pro Hesalite (and Sapphire) still for sale, brand new, in stock, direct from Omegawatches.com.
Let's stop the nonsense carousel based on what some clickbaity youtubers say, okay?


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## cartel3341 (Nov 22, 2020)

From talking with someone, the current version is apparently out of production and my assumption would be that Boutiques and AD’s are going to sell through current stock. Then at some point in the future the new Speedmaster will be released with whatever changes are made. The consensus seems to be 3861, revised bracelet, and price increase but who knows until it’s actually revealed.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

enkrypt said:


> End of november now, and the Speedy Pro Hesalite (and Sapphire) still for sale, brand new, in stock, direct from Omegawatches.com.
> Let's stop the nonsense carousel based on what some clickbaity youtubers say, okay?


There's still stock, as Omega has produced a lot of them, but many ADs are now no longer able to order new ones and told production has ended. But you're right, for all I know their Omega reps could be clickbait-y YouTubers.


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

Since Omega is my customer (Swatch) lemme have a quick look and see how many Speedy Pros have been coming in in our shipments from Switzerland to Swatch US in the last few weeks. I’ll report back.

(During Summer months it varied between roughly 50 to 100 units any given week)


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

jkpa said:


> Since Omega is my customer (Swatch) lemme have a quick look and see how many Speedy Pros have been coming in in our shipments from Switzerland to Swatch US in the last few weeks. I'll report back.
> 
> (During Summer months it varied between roughly 50 to 100 units any given week)


Wow, that's a lot of Speedies!


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

jkpa said:


> Since Omega is my customer (Swatch) lemme have a quick look and see how many Speedy Pros have been coming in in our shipments from Switzerland to Swatch US in the last few weeks. I'll report back.
> 
> (During Summer months it varied between roughly 50 to 100 units any given week)


Ok check done. Last weekend (11/15) shows 140+ Hesalite Speedy Pros coming in. This weekend (11/22) shows 150+ Hesalite Speedy Pros and 70+ Sapphire Speedy Pros coming in.

Hardly proof of an end to supply. Things may change but right now I see no evidence that this model is no longer being produced.


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## cartel3341 (Nov 22, 2020)

jkpa said:


> Ok check done. Last weekend (11/15) shows 140+ Hesalite Speedy Pros coming in. This weekend (11/22) shows 150+ Hesalite Speedy Pros and 70+ Sapphire Speedy Pros coming in.
> 
> Hardly proof of an end to supply. Things may change but right now I see no evidence that this model is no longer being produced.


That's awesome. I thoroughly enjoy data like this. Thanks for sharing!


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

jkpa said:


> Ok check done. Last weekend (11/15) shows 140+ Hesalite Speedy Pros coming in. This weekend (11/22) shows 150+ Hesalite Speedy Pros and 70+ Sapphire Speedy Pros coming in.
> 
> Hardly proof of an end to supply. Things may change but right now I see no evidence that this model is no longer being produced.


Wow, still a plentiful stream it would seem. Thank you for checking, this is a most interesting stat that starkly contrasts when many ADs have been saying.


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## DJ_Masse (Dec 14, 2019)

My friend juts got one and the store said they got 6 hesalite alone in the last shipment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

kritameth said:


> Wow, still a plentiful stream it would seem. Thank you for checking, this is a most interesting stat that starkly contrasts when many ADs have been saying.


AD's know *nothing*. They have never known anything. AD's have been spouting nonsense, about practically everything, from day one. They will pressure you with "rumours about price increases", and they will tell you the same old story, every time you enter the store.
Because of course, sooner or later, they might be right. One day. Like a broken clock. And if it helps to sell more product, why not?
But rumours don't make facts.


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## GregoryD (Jan 31, 2009)

If we take a step back, I'm wondering if it would make sense for Omega to keep the standard 1861 model and add a new, upgraded 3861? They could slot the 3861 at around $8000 and still have special edition Speedies at $9000-10000 to keep things orderly. It seems like there's enough distinction in the retail price for all of these products, which is why it seems unlikely to me that the 1861 Speedy would be discontinued.


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## bonsaiguy (Aug 20, 2020)

GregoryD said:


> I'm wondering if it would make sense for Omega to keep the standard 1861 model and add a new, upgraded 3861? They could slot the 3861 at around $8000


I don't see that. I don't see people paying that much more for a less Moonwatch like watch. The narrow gap in price between the Hesalite and Sapphire at the moment is about right to get people paying the extra, increase it by too much and people will more often than not stick with the Hesalite. I don't see anyone queuing up to buy a 3861 movement Speedmaster 'Moonwatch'. And the feeling is that Omega don't want to keep making the 1861/1863 movements going forward either.

I guess we'll find out in due course!


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

bonsaiguy said:


> I don't see that. *I don't see people paying that much more for a less Moonwatch like watch.* The narrow gap in price between the Hesalite and Sapphire at the moment is about right to get people paying the extra, increase it by too much and people will more often than not stick with the Hesalite. I don't see anyone queuing up to buy a 3861 movement Speedmaster 'Moonwatch'. And the feeling is that Omega don't want to keep making the 1861/1863 movements going forward either.
> 
> I guess we'll find out in due course!


In my very humble opinion, most people wouldn't know a Hesalite crystal from a sapphire crystal, or a Moonwatch from Buzz Aldrin's @$$ if it bit them in theirs.

Most people that are looking to buy a watch at the Speedmaster level of luxury will most likely have the dispensable income to spend. They will probably want the newest, most up-to-date model that is available, and will buy what they are directed/encouraged to buy by the sales associate. While most "normal" people will be more practical and will think it preposterous to spend that kind of money on a wrist watch.

The ones looking for the most authentic iteration of the watch that went to the moon will be WIS...collectors and enthusiasts. I don't have any data, but I'm sure WIS make up a minute portion of the watch-buying public.

Again, this is just my opinion.

René


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

Another week, another batch. However, a paltry dozen or so Hesalites and less than 30 Sapphires. 

This is less than we are used to seeing. Could be just a slow Speedy week for them. I will have to check next weekend again and see.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

Does anyone know what happened when the Speedy transitioned from the 321 to the 861? Was it readily accepted by the public? Did the cost go up or down?


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## Bernardo de Carvalho (Aug 14, 2020)

FOIS discontinued...but maybe this was already planned for the life span of this numbered edition.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

enkrypt said:


> AD's know *nothing*. They have never known anything. AD's have been spouting nonsense, about practically everything, from day one. They will pressure you with "rumours about price increases", and they will tell you the same old story, every time you enter the store.
> Because of course, sooner or later, they might be right. One day. Like a broken clock. And if it helps to sell more product, why not?
> But rumours don't make facts.


am reminded of something Socrates supposedly said:"I know that I know nothing"


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## fezz (Apr 28, 2020)

Bernardo de Carvalho said:


> FOIS discontinued...but maybe this was already planned for the life span of this numbered edition.


Has that been announced? Are you sure?


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## jeffgo888 (Jun 13, 2013)

Omega won’t do anything they are known to bastardize a model to make moneybags Lolol.
I love the speedy pro hesalite but color of the moon models ?? I lost it and left lol.
A rainbow side of the moon is upcoming alongside the purple slide of the moon model...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## geokarbou (Jan 11, 2009)

Bernardo de Carvalho said:


> FOIS discontinued...but maybe this was already planned for the life span of this numbered edition.





fezz said:


> Has that been announced? Are you sure?


Are you sure? I only found a couple of blogs mentioning this, is there any official source?


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

geokarbou said:


> Are you sure? I only found a couple of blogs mentioning this, is there any official source?


When I was at the local Boutique the other day, I specifically asked about the FOIS. I was told that even the Boutique cannot get one, as they are no longer in production. That is as official as it needs to get for me. I am very glad that I decided to get one a few months ago, as it is still my favorite Speedmaster, unless I some day can afford to get the 321.


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## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

GrouchoM said:


> Does anyone know what happened when the Speedy transitioned from the 321 to the 861? Was it readily accepted by the public? Did the cost go up or down?


It was all over the internet back then! Fanboys were outraged.

/s


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

rfortson said:


> It was all over the internet back then! Fanboys were outraged.
> 
> /s


Thanks for the morning laugh


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

jeffgo888 said:


> Omega won't do anything they are known to bastardize a model to make moneybags Lolol.
> I love the speedy pro hesalite but color of the moon models ?? I lost it and left lol.
> A rainbow side of the moon is upcoming alongside the purple slide of the moon model...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I for one am very critical of Omega's limited edition watches, especially up unti 2018. They seemed to be cleaning up their act a bit now and special editions are now better thought of. I can't think of a garbage SE they released in the last year or so. The NTTD, Nekton SMP, 50th Snoopy are all very special in their own right.

Personally, I am not a fan of Speedmaster SEs but the Dark Side, Grey Side are quite unique in what they did with them. There is signifcant demand for them in Asia and they usually hold their value quiet well. Some people like them better than the classic speedy. People are watch forums are mostly pursits but are very small in number (myself included).


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## Gixnic (Sep 12, 2020)

Just read this on another forum. Looks like the info has been leaked.









NEW%20MOONWATCH.pdf







drive.google.com


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## Ric Capucho (Oct 5, 2012)

Ok, so the _hesalite_ version (didn't even read the sapphire specs; cough, spit) has a DON bezel, stepped dial, fat pushers _and_ the co-axial inside (one of the most desirable movements on the planet). And a very lovely spear-shaped chrono hand.

So apart from the missing applied Omega logo, and the non-tritium lume, we have a fairly faithful reproduction of the earliest of the 321 ST 145.012 version.

Nice.

The caseback's a bit busy for my tastes, but otherwise little for the internet to froth about and much to salivate on.

Will be interesting to see the (re)pricing, but otherwise (IMHO) Omega has smashed it out of the park.

Ric


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## enkrypt (Feb 24, 2009)

Thank god they didn't **** it up. Visually they seem to be... identical? Talking about hesalite of course, the only version that counts. About 1000 € price increase.


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## solesman (Dec 3, 2009)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Galaga (Jun 22, 2017)

Ric Capucho said:


> Ok, so the _hesalite_ version (didn't even read the sapphire specs; cough, spit) has a DON bezel, stepped dial, fat pushers _and_ the co-axial inside (one of the most desirable movements on the planet). And a very lovely spear-shaped chrono hand.
> 
> So apart from the missing applied Omega logo, and the non-tritium lume, we have a fairly faithful reproduction of the earliest of the 321 ST 145.012 version.
> 
> ...


Agree 100%.


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## Jaguarshark (Apr 8, 2018)

enkrypt said:


> AD's know *nothing*. They have never known anything. AD's have been spouting nonsense, about practically everything, from day one. They will pressure you with "rumours about price increases", and they will tell you the same old story, every time you enter the store.
> Because of course, sooner or later, they might be right. One day. Like a broken clock. And if it helps to sell more product, why not?
> But rumours don't make facts.


My Boutique told me this would happen back in January  guess they knew something.


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## jimmbob (Aug 22, 2013)

I particularly like the huge amount of text shoe-horned onto the case back. It appears they're taking their design cues from the ingredients list on the back of shampoo bottles. 

In all seriousness it's looking good. Shame they've not looked at the water resistance. But hey ho.


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

Glad it wasn’t discontinued or hacked up. Looks great. I won’t be buying one as I have the current version but it’s nice to see future buyers get what they want.


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## Roningrad (Aug 2, 2018)

Perhaps now is the time to pick up a FOIS. This would mean bye bye Zenith Tri-color 38mm 😢


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

Ric Capucho said:


> Ok, so the _hesalite_ version (didn't even read the sapphire specs; cough, spit) has a DON bezel, stepped dial, fat pushers _and_ the co-axial inside (one of the most desirable movements on the planet). And a very lovely spear-shaped chrono hand.
> 
> So apart from the missing applied Omega logo, and the non-tritium lume, we have a fairly faithful reproduction of the earliest of the 321 ST 145.012 version.
> 
> ...


I like that very much. If the Snoopy doesn't happen for me this is looking like the one.


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## FJR1971 (Nov 26, 2017)

Ric Capucho said:


> Ok, so the _hesalite_ version (didn't even read the sapphire specs; cough, spit) has a DON bezel, stepped dial, fat pushers _and_ the co-axial inside (one of the most desirable movements on the planet). And a very lovely spear-shaped chrono hand.
> 
> So apart from the missing applied Omega logo, and the non-tritium lume, we have a fairly faithful reproduction of the earliest of the 321 ST 145.012 version.
> 
> ...


This is really nice! The middle links seem more narrow right?
I like the fabric strap too, I always thought the leather didn't really match the watch.


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## FJR1971 (Nov 26, 2017)

and those end links!! perfect now.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

enkrypt said:


> Thank god they didn't **** it up. Visually they seem to be... identical? Talking about hesalite of course, the only version that counts. About 1000 € price increase.


the caseback engraving is terrible with the switch from manned to human - wonder what prompted that change.....guess if you want one now is the time to get the old one if this is accurate.


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## Ric Capucho (Oct 5, 2012)

Roningrad said:


> Perhaps now is the time to pick up a FOIS. This would mean bye bye Zenith Tri-color 38mm


Never!

Ric


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## tmathes (Jan 11, 2013)

Mathew J said:


> the caseback engraving is terrible with the switch from manned to human - wonder what prompted that change.....guess if you want one now is the time to get the old one if this is accurate.


With the new movement is that engraving even valid anymore?


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## Arthur M (Nov 9, 2013)

Mathew J said:


> the caseback engraving is terrible with the switch from manned to human - wonder what prompted that change.....guess if you want one now is the time to get the old one if this is accurate.


Oh I just noticed that. It does sound a bit off.


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Mathew J said:


> the caseback engraving is terrible with the switch from manned to human - wonder what prompted that change.....guess if you want one now is the time to get the old one if this is accurate.





tmathes said:


> With the new movement is that engraving even valid anymore?


What prompted the change? Manned is politically incorrect now. LTBGQ....


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Cod Holliday said:


> What prompted the change? Manned is politically incorrect now. LTBGQ....


I am buying one now so I get the older inscription and the current movement, someone on the Omega forum said that similar to how Star Trek changed their wording from "To boldly go where no man has gone before" to "to boldly go where no one has gone before" so too is Omega changing their text

I would prefer the verbiage that would have actually been used in the time when this watch was relevant as a true tool, which in all documented accounts seems to be "manned"


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## MichaelMaggi (Sep 15, 2016)

Looks like only a $500 increase to the MSRP for both the sapphire & hesalite. Win-win if you ask me. The 3861 is an outstanding movement.


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Looks like only a $500 increase to the MSRP for both the sapphire & hesalite. Win-win if you ask me. The 3861 is an outstanding movement.


From what I gather its a lot more than $500.00


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## GregoryD (Jan 31, 2009)

New bracelet looks good, I hope they've improved the clasp.


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Cod Holliday said:


> From what I gather its a lot more than $500.00


Yep. Closer to 20%, if the Swiss pricing is any guide. So an estimated $1300 premium in Canada, and something like a likely MSRP of between CAD 7700.00 - 8000.00 before tax. And I doubt that dealers will be rushing to discount these initially.

Still, a very interesting release if the leaked specs are accurate.


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## cartel3341 (Nov 22, 2020)

MichaelMaggi said:


> Looks like only a $500 increase to the MSRP for both the sapphire & hesalite. Win-win if you ask me. The 3861 is an outstanding movement.


That's what I thought when I posted the PDF on Reddit and then someone pointed out that this price is more than likely in CHF, so it's not an unsubstantial price increase.


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

I just got a correspondence that indicates the new price will start at $8550CAN. This is not 100% confirmed, but it comes from a pretty reliable source.

René


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Titan II said:


> I just got a correspondence that indicates the new price will start at $8550CAN. This is not 100% confirmed, but it comes from a pretty reliable source.
> 
> René


Interesting, is that for Sapphire? because if it is, that's only a 7% or so increase


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

Cod Holliday said:


> Interesting, is that for Sapphire? because if it is, that's only a 7% or so increase


The source said "starting at $8550" so I'm assuming that will be for the Hesalite model. Again, just a guess on my part, but that would be in line with how they were priced with the 1861 and 1863.

René


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## Mikegpd (Apr 27, 2012)

Titan II said:


> The source said "starting at $8550" so I'm assuming that will be for the Hesalite model. Again, just a guess on my part, but that would be in line with how they were priced with the 1861 and 1863.
> 
> René


Wow that's expensive for a speedy pro

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Mikegpd said:


> Wow that's expensive for a speedy pro
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


We can argue that. But it's the same price as Rolex Explorer almost and we can argue it's a better watch.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

And remember it is 8550 CANADA dollars 

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

alexd3498 said:


> And remember it is 8550 CANADA dollars
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


Yeah...so about $19.99US🤣🤣

René


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Titan II said:


> I just got a correspondence that indicates the new price will start at $8550CAN. This is not 100% confirmed, but it comes from a pretty reliable source.
> 
> René


That sounds about right. Decent premium over the outgoing model and bumping up against the 9900-based models and recent LEs.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Cod Holliday said:


> We can argue that. But it's the same price as Rolex Explorer almost and we can argue it's a better watch.


I haven't owned a new Explorer but I did own a K series, as well as an old Speedy Pro with the friction pin bracelet and then the decision was harder and I might agree with you, but if these specs are correct along with the price information then at least for me the current Explorer would easily get the nod over this new speedmaster pro.

Part of the charm of the Speedy was that it was such a lasting design, no other modern watch is as close to the original, sure they made some changes with the bracelet, but on the whole it was essentially a "new" vintage watch. And while there have been some recent price increases, it was still reasonable by comparison to others. And while there have been plenty of gripes about the cost given the plastic crystal and the low water resistance, people still bought it because it was a classic.

The new speedy, if these documents are accurate, has lost that charm to me. The updated movement, modified engraving, and what seems like a substantial jump in price makes it just another modern watch...and why pay that much money for a watch with a plastic crystal that is manual wind and has low water resistance.... The Explorer is a much more versatile piece and comes from a brand that has a lot more appeal.

I'd even say the new Black Bay Chrono is even a better buy than the new Speedmaster with its in house movement, it will certainly be more affordable.


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## Galaga (Jun 22, 2017)

Mathew J said:


> I haven't owned a new Explorer but I did own a K series, as well as an old Speedy Pro with the friction pin bracelet and then the decision was harder and I might agree with you, but if these specs are correct along with the price information then at least for me the current Explorer would easily get the nod over this new speedmaster pro.
> 
> Part of the charm of the Speedy was that it was such a lasting design, no other modern watch is as close to the original, sure they made some changes with the bracelet, but on the whole it was essentially a "new" vintage watch. And while there have been some recent price increases, it was still reasonable by comparison to others. And while there have been plenty of gripes about the cost given the plastic crystal and the low water resistance, people still bought it because it was a classic.
> 
> ...


It certainly has not lost any charm and is a better watch in every way than the non hacking, inaccurate predecessor.

And comparing a Black Bay chrono to it is like comparing a new Alfa Romeo to a Porsche 911.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Galaga said:


> It certainly has not lost any charm and is a better watch in every way than the non hacking, inaccurate predecessor.
> 
> And comparing a Black Bay chrono to it is like comparing a new Alfa Romeo to a Porsche 911.


I have read this a few times but wonder just how many will truly care. The old movement was in production for ages, and while it wasn't the most modern, that was part of the charm, unchanged in an ever changing world, lots of parts availability and options for service, and just a constant. I'd figure its a part of the reason why so many opted for the hesalite over the sapphire, as it was truer to the original.

The new model and movement is just that, new, why pay the premium for a modern manual wind movement in a watch with a hesalite crystal when it doesn't really have the same connection to the past which the older model did?

And I have already seen a good amount of posts from people who bought the black bay chrono over the speedy pro, it will now be less expensive, and while it doesn't have the history of the Omega, I'd argue the new model is a shell of its former self (quite literally)


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## Ric Capucho (Oct 5, 2012)

The modern version of the 911 has nothing to do with the original other than an approximation to the shape and styling. I should know.  And thank god for that, or I'd have crashed backwards into a variety of hedges by now.

The original Speedmaster worn on the moon had a hippocampus on the back, spear second hand and a DON bezel. And a 321 inside. Oh and an applied Omega logo.

So the "First Watch Worn on the Moon" 145.022 is already a recreation of the true original. 861 movement, DNN bezel, and printed logo. A few other details. So an evolved (or devolved, according to the movement police) version. Apart from a few model reference changes it's indeed pretty much the same, unchanged _recreation_ since 1970.

The new version has replaced the 861 with the coaxial. Everything else is either the same, or indeed reverts to a far better approximation of the _true_ original. Case back excepted, as I've never been a fan of the FWWOTM case back anyway; A case back monstrosity has been replaced with yet another monstrosity.

So what's left to worry about? Which recreation is better than the original (erm) recreation? Personally I'd say the new one. Far better, IMHO.

Nah, it's the ca. USD 1 thousand price hike that's gotta hurt. Easily "explained" by the coaxial. Makes me think that Omega's finally realised that its moon watch has been a bit too much of a price bargain for a little too long. Not when we have even the more modest, battered pre-moons swapping hands at well over 10k.

What else authentically retro (or near enough) can you have for the same price? I think a three handed Explorer or Tudor Black Bay aren't meaningful comparisons with any chrono. And neither is as faithful to their originals as any Moon Watch. Perhaps that Zenith tricolour El Primero? Or join a waiting list (that even doesn't exist in practice) for a Rolex Daytona?

Nah, the Moon Watch holds the ground.

Ric

p.s. I greatly enjoy and respect the divergent opinions thus far. Always fun and informative.


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## El_Guapo (Nov 4, 2014)

Omega have simply recreated a classic 60's sports car, and given it a modern engine. The aesthetics are even more faithful to the actual Moonwatches, with a movement evolution that is more accurate & reliable. Seems like a winner to me.


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## catspispenguins (Oct 11, 2017)

Yes please discontinue so we can evolve past sub and speedmaster collections.

And then finally the word rarity will make sense.


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## Ric Capucho (Oct 5, 2012)

catspispenguins said:


> Yes please discontinue so we can evolve past sub and speedmaster collections.
> 
> And then finally the word rarity will make sense.


Nice.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Ric Capucho said:


> The modern version of the 911 has nothing to do with the original other than an approximation to the shape and styling. I should know.  And thank god for that, or I'd have crashed backwards into a variety of hedges by now.
> 
> The original Speedmaster worn on the moon had a hippocampus on the back, spear second hand and a DON bezel. And a 321 inside. Oh and an applied Omega logo.
> 
> ...


It will be interesting to see if this "works" for Omega and increases sales of the Moon watch, I personally am doubtful, or if anything it will push more towards the sapphire version as again why bother spending the money on the hesalite.

Again I get that one aesthetic issue has been addressed with the bezel, and some will appreciate the new movement and what it offers technically, but at least to me this watch wasn't about any of that.....its appeal was that it was for the most part a constant for as long as it was, really the only modern "classic' one could buy new. The new watch lost all of that appeal which is again why I scrambled to get a current model.

As for the 911 comparison I think you said it yourself that the new model is nothing like the older aircooled variants, just like a modern ceramic sub is nothing like the vintage pieces from the 70s. If anything the 911 reference relates well to the Explorer and really any modern Rolex and to me less so to the new hesalite speedy, and my Black Bay reference was more towards those shopping by price, as the Moon watch used to be a good option at a reasonable cost, that now will no longer be the case whereas Tudor has a strong offering poised to take over some of those sales as some of the big complaints from the masses about the Omega were around its limited water resistance, manual wind movement, and hesalite glass.


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Mathew J said:


> Again I get that one aesthetic issue has been addressed with the bezel, and some will appreciate the new movement and what it offers technically, but at least to me this watch wasn't about any of that.....its appeal was that it was for the most part a constant for as long as it was, really the only modern "classic' one could buy new. The new watch lost all of that appeal which is again why I scrambled to get a current model.


You keep saying that when others have pointed out that this holds little to no merit. The visuals of moonwatch have remained unchanged. At least to no WIS. People who pixel peep on watch forums are very few in numbers. Take a Speedmaster from 30 years ago, one from 20 years ago and the one we have today, and most like my family can't tell them apart until they are side by side and allowed to be looked at carefully.

Enjoy the current watch, not sure what charm the new one has lost but to each their own.

This conversation is very similar to the SubC vs SUB41. Some are complaining while others are "upgrading" on watch forums. Joe White on the street can't tell them the F apart.


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Honestly I'm happy about the change. I get a movement that is very accurate, a much improved bracelet, a step dial and a dot on nine? What more could I want? 

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


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## Mikegpd (Apr 27, 2012)

I like the upgrade as well, been holding off buying a speedy waiting for the release. The only thing i wouldve looooved would be a ceramic bezel. Why cant they just put it in the saphire version, which already has upgraded characteristics?


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Mikegpd said:


> I like the upgrade as well, been holding off buying a speedy waiting for the release. The only thing i wouldve looooved would be a ceramic bezel. Why cant they just put it in the saphire version, which already has upgraded characteristics?


Ummm, Ed White 321. That's where one will need to go if they want Ceramic bezel. I think once the price comes out and dust settles the price different between Sapphire and Ed White wont be as substantial.


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## Arthur M (Nov 9, 2013)

Mikegpd said:


> I like the upgrade as well, been holding off buying a speedy waiting for the release. The only thing i wouldve looooved would be a ceramic bezel. Why cant they just put it in the saphire version, which already has upgraded characteristics?


I like this idea. People who buy the sapphire tend to for the perpetually pristine nature of the crystal anyway. Why not add a ceramic bezel, especially with the price creeping up and up. Eventaually it'll be 10k canadian for a manual wind, cam operated, 50m wr, aluminum bezelled speedmaster that people alreadt shun for being "inauthentic". Just got all the way with modernities.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Cod Holliday said:


> You keep saying that when others have pointed out that this holds little to no merit. The visuals of moonwatch have remained unchanged. At least to no WIS. People who pixel peep on watch forums are very few in numbers. Take a Speedmaster from 30 years ago, one from 20 years ago and the one we have today, and most like my family can't tell them apart until they are side by side and allowed to be looked at carefully.
> 
> Enjoy the current watch, not sure what charm the new one has lost but to each their own.
> 
> This conversation is very similar to the SubC vs SUB41. Some are complaining while others are "upgrading" on watch forums. Joe White on the street can't tell them the F apart.


the difference with the sub is it has mass appeal, its a versatile watch that due to its brand recognition, value retention, and durability virtually everyone wants, and it is in short supply. The only gripe folks had with the new larger sub was the size, and availability but beyond that there were no big complaints. If anything there were more gripes when they moved away from their older 16610 style to the chunky lug, ceramic bezel models as that was seen as a bigger departure, but the better bracelet and clasp had its fans.

Plus Rolex took a way different path with their sports models years ago, constantly updating them along the way.

The speedy on the other hand was always more of an enthusiasts piece, as I noted many (even folks here) would complain about the fact that it was manual wind, had low water resistance, and were torn on the hesalite crystal. Now they have essentially changed none of those things, updated the movement, and will most likely be charging considerably more.

Here is an image someone shared elsewhere that highlighted the changes










its all up to the individual but for me the left looks like every speedy I have seen when looking, the right a bit of a mashup of a few styles

It will be interesting to see if Omega starts to limit supply of the piece, or if people actually want to buy it..I am guessing it will have to be a little of both as the market already wasn't that hot for them. Like I mentioned, many bought the watch because of both the history as well as the relative affordability, and now both are gone.



Arthur M said:


> I like this idea. People who buy the sapphire tend to for the perpetually pristine nature of the crystal anyway. Why not add a ceramic bezel, especially with the price creeping up and up. Eventaually it'll be 10k canadian for a manual wind, cam operated, 50m wr, aluminum bezelled speedmaster that people alreadt shun for being "inauthentic". Just got all the way with modernities.


I am a little surprised they even kept the hesalite model at this point....I was hoping they would just upgrade the sapphire and leave the hesalite as it was but knew that was unlikely, still I can't see any reason to buy the new hesalite model personally.


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Mathew J said:


> the difference with the sub is it has mass appeal, its a versatile watch that due to its brand recognition, value retention, and durability virtually everyone wants, and it is in short supply. The only gripe folks had with the new larger sub was the size, and availability but beyond that there were no big complaints. If anything there were more gripes when they moved away from their older 16610 style to the chunky lug, ceramic bezel models as that was seen as a bigger departure, but the better bracelet and clasp had its fans.
> 
> Plus Rolex took a way different path with their sports models years ago, constantly updating them along the way.
> 
> ...


We can both agree to disagree on everything you have said about the sub and the speedmaster moonwatch.

Many people don't like the new submariner because its larger, has a bigger bracelet, hideous clasp and an undercoat of AR. Its also further away from the true heritage of the submariner and in essence is less attractive to some. Now you can type another essay and deny how that is incorrect, I am just stating what I have read here and other forums recently.

Many prefer the SubC to the new one, despite its chunkier lugs. This has been debated many times and I am okay with people liking the older one better. To insist that Rolex is still holding true to its heritage of Submariner because they are Rolex and that' what you think and Omega are not, is an incorrect notion IMO.

To John Smith off the street, its hard to tell them apart and same holds true for this moonwatch.

Now if your candles are lit with the old ones, hey then by all means enjoy that. Many others are excited about the updates and will buy one.

You might be right and people might go, "Hey this new Speedy isn't a moonwatch anymore, I ain't buying it." Only time will tell if that be the case but I doubt it.


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## M.N.A (Sep 1, 2013)

The updated version looks good with small attention to details personally I have no preference of one over the other especially the hesalite version. However, in my opinion 2 things will determine the success of this watch in the mid / long term :

1- Serviceability cost and easiness.
2- Price discounts and value retention.

The thing with speedies the older they get the hotter they become so there will always be room for new and vintage ones.


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## Galaga (Jun 22, 2017)

Anyone know if the WR will be increased to 100m?


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## omega1300 (Jun 24, 2010)

Documentation says it’s still 50M WR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Titan II said:


> The source said "starting at $8550" so I'm assuming that will be for the Hesalite model. Again, just a guess on my part, but that would be in line with how they were priced with the 1861 and 1863.
> 
> René


Wow! $1800cad increase is quite substantial. Really glad to have my FOIS! $6450 that I paid now seems like a bargain! Apart from the price increase, I do like what the changes to the new model. As Jorge said at the Boutique, with the FOIS discontinued, the 321 is now the new FOIS!


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

carlhaluss said:


> Wow! $1800cad increase is quite substantial. Really glad to have my FOIS! $6450 that I paid now seems like a bargain! Apart from the price increase, I do like what the changes to the new model. As Jorge said at the Boutique, with the FOIS discontinued, the 321 is now the new FOIS!


Hi Carl,

I hope you're well, my friend.

I agree...quite a substantial price increase indeed. I'm afraid this might only be the beginning as OMEGA increases it's push to go more upmarket. The Speedmaster is arguably the best known model in OMEGA's line-up, and the benchmark by which all other models are measured when it comes to price. Raising the price of the Speedmaster this significantly is bound to force a price increase in all other models.

It pains me to do it, but I'm going to reference ROLEX here to use as an example. If Rolex was to raise the price of their "entry level" Oyster Perpetual by $1800, wouldn't that forecast an increase in price across the board?

As for the watch itself...I like it. If I didn't already have my Hesalite Moonwatch I would be comfortable paying up to $7500CAN for this new iteration. There isn't anything I _dislike_ about the watch, but there are a couple of things that I question. The first is why they kept the 5-link style bracelet instead of going with a flat, 3-link instead. The second is changing the style of the pushers. That one's got me baffled. All-in-all I'm happy with the changes they made. They didn't ruin their iconic goose that's been laying golden eggs for decades.

Me personally, I'm very happy with the Speedmaster I have. The heritage of the Moonwatch is important to me, and played a big part in why I lusted after it for 25 years. The one I lusted after, however, was the one in the display at the jewelry store...and that's exactly the one I got. It will never leave my collection. That's why I'm also happy for you, Carl, that you made the decision to pick up that FOIS when you did. You bought what you liked best, and hopefully you'll be happy enough with it to keep it in your collection.

We'll have to plan another visit to Jorge at the Boutique sometime early in 2021. We can also hit a few of the other boutiques. Maybe Clayton (@Maddog1970) would want to tag along. Take good care, Carl!

Rene


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Titan II said:


> Hi Carl,
> 
> I hope you're well, my friend.
> 
> ...


Y'all better do that before they start taxing downtown visitation. 😉


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Titan II said:


> Hi Carl,
> 
> I hope you're well, my friend.
> 
> ...


Yes, another visit to the Boutique would be excellent. Of course, Clayton would be more than welcome to join us! It would be great to visit Lugaro again at Park Royal sometime. If you are around there in the next while, please give my regards to Tomas.

Cheers,
Carl


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

carlhaluss said:


> Yes, another visit to the Boutique would be excellent. Of course, Clayton would be more than welcome to join us! It would be great to visit Lugaro again at Park Royal sometime. If you are around there in the next while, please give my regards to Tomas.
> 
> Cheers,
> Carl


I will definitely do that, Carl. Tomas and his wife Ivy had a baby boy on Nov. 29th. I will convey your congratulations and well wishes.

Rene


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## Titan II (Dec 11, 2010)

Cod Holliday said:


> Y'all better do that before they start taxing downtown visitation. 😉


Carl will most likely be exempt as he lives in the city, which means they'll really put the screws to me as I have to cross a bridge into the Promised Land.

Rene


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## keerola (Aug 2, 2019)

I do like the upgrade. I bought my 1861 just a month ago, i though that there would be no hesalite any more and/or substantial price increase at the very least. I do however value the new anti-magnetic movement more than the <1000e price increase, so i might be upgrading to the new one. It does tick a lot of the "only watch" boxes i have, especially the sapphire sandwich version.
I still have to decide between the new 3861 sapphire sandwich, the speedmaster racing and the moonphase. (and i have to sell my GS and the 1861 hesalite speedy before any upgrade can happen though)


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Titan II said:


> Carl will most likely be exempt as he lives in the city, which means they'll really put the screws to me as I have to cross a bridge into the Promised Land.
> 
> Rene


Same as me. And I thought the Promise Land was underneath Shangri_La... maybe the green garden of Eden


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Titan II said:


> Hi Carl,
> 
> I hope you're well, my friend.
> 
> ...


I agree that this is the latest in what has become a sort of wedge movement for Omega to push upmarket, leading with their most popular models (Speedy, Seamaster specifically, and some recent LEs also, including Snoopy and Bond). Whilst I also appreciate the evolutionary upgrades of these new models, I'm happy to stick with my beloved FOIS (in fact, I now own a duo of them) and get my 3861 Speedy kicks with the Snoopy, should it ever arrive.

I'm not sure how I feel about the relentless surge upwards for the brand. I rarely sell or flip, so I'm not fussed about value retention or appreciation, and I always admired Omega for offering a wide array of watches that were, for the most part, reasonably accessible and available at substantial but not outrageous prices.

Would I have paid CAD 9k or so for a Speedmaster if I were buying for the first time in May, 2021? Or CAD 7200 or so for a SMP Diver? I don't know, but I doubt it, somehow. But I'm going to earmark an Omega for my kids just in case they've gone up by another 30% by the time they might want one -- and maybe point them towards Longines, or Oris, or Sinn, or Damasko, or...


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Cod Holliday said:


> To insist that Rolex is still holding true to its heritage of Submariner because they are Rolex and that' what you think and Omega are not, is an incorrect notion IMO.


Can you show me exactly where I made this statement recently?

As I quite clearly stated Rolex has taken a very different path with their pieces for some time, upgrading them over the years. They stopped using plastic crystals in the 80s, upgraded components regularly, and never had a model which was left alone.

I am sure you can do a search but going back years I have always said that the current Omega Speedmaster was truly the only modern classic watch anyone could buy given that it was for the most part unchanged for over fifty years, with its history and affordability just adding to the appeal.

The new model has none of that going for it and I am surprised they didn't just follow Rolex's lead and discontinue the hesalite, increase the water resistance, and incorporate an automatic movement and focus on the 321 for those looking for a classic speedy.

A high priced, co axial based, low water resistance chronograph with a plastic crystal that happens to share some visual aspects with the past models does nothing for me, but again everyone has their own set of criteria they look for. I loved the fact that you could get basically the same watch you could buy in the 60s now, in 2020....thankfully I finally got another, but sadly that option will be gone for others in the future.


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## Jale (Jul 11, 2018)

It would be nice to see 2 versions of speedmaster for its omega fans:

1. The way it is now with hesalite for purists.
2. Upgraded with sapphire, ceramic bezel and applied indices filled with lume. 

Different strokes for different folks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Jale said:


> It would be nice to see 2 versions of speedmaster for its omega fans:
> 
> 1. The way it is now with hesalite for purists.
> 2. Upgraded with sapphire, ceramic bezel and applied indices filled with lume.
> ...


I was really hoping they did that, would have saved me from having to make an "emergency" purchase but I knew it wouldn't happen


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## Jale (Jul 11, 2018)

Mathew J said:


> I was really hoping they did that, would have saved me from having to make an "emergency" purchase but I knew it wouldn't happen


Could've been like the Daytona of Omega if they made it happen

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Jale said:


> Could've been like the Daytona of Omega if they made it happen
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Snoopy is the Daytona of Omega.


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## Jale (Jul 11, 2018)

Cod Holliday said:


> The Snoopy is the Daytona of Omega.


True, but what I meant is one that's not limited edition and still producing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Jale said:


> True, but what I meant is one that's not limited edition and still producing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Snoopy 50 isn't limited either and is IN production. Good luck with the waiting list however. Its more desirable than Rolex according to Jewellers, just don't say that in TRF.


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## Ric Capucho (Oct 5, 2012)

Cod Holliday said:


> The Snoopy is the Daytona of Omega.


Yup.


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## Ric Capucho (Oct 5, 2012)

Jale said:


> True, but what I meant is one that's not limited edition and still producing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, again.


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Cod Holliday said:


> Snoopy 50 isn't limited either and is IN production. Good luck with the waiting list however. Its more desirable than Rolex according to Jewellers, just don't say that in TRF.


it just came out whereas the Daytona has been a hot commodity for literally decades and across multiple iterations.

Omega would be smart to keep production well below demand but who knows with them what they will do.

to Jale's point the Snoopy shows what Omega could do for a standard model if they wanted to with a ceramic bezel - it's too bad they didn't just do that for the new sapphire model


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## Cod Holliday (Dec 8, 2019)

Mathew J said:


> it just came out whereas the Daytona has been a hot commodity for literally decades and across multiple iterations.
> 
> Omega would be smart to keep production well below demand but who knows with them what they will do.
> 
> to Jale's point the Snoopy shows what Omega could do for a standard model if they wanted to with a ceramic bezel - it's too bad they didn't just do that for the new sapphire model


It all has to start somewhere.


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

Most recent shipment:
Hesalite. More than 80 units. Sapphire. More than 20 units.

So still shipping. I wonder when the new model will roll out and what the ref # will be.


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## thewodg (Dec 3, 2015)

jkpa said:


> Most recent shipment:
> Hesalite. More than 80 units. Sapphire. More than 20 units.
> 
> So still shipping. I wonder when the new model will roll out and what the ref # will be.


According to the leak, the new reference numbers will be:

Hesalite: 310.30.42.50.01.001
Sapphire: 310.30.42.50.01.002


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

jkpa said:


> Most recent shipment:
> Hesalite. More than 80 units. Sapphire. More than 20 units.
> 
> So still shipping. I wonder when the new model will roll out and what the ref # will be.


i read on one forum next year in the spring/summer


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## Morgan24 (Aug 15, 2016)




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