# 2022 IWC new models?



## jerseytime

Youtuber Tokkante had some interesting skinny from his AD on 2022:




-- Discontinued Mark XVIII?
-- Titanium BP43?
How reliable is this kind of AD gossip?
Has anyone heard anything about the possibility of a closed caseback and antimagnetic inner cage for the BP43 in stainless steel?


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## jerseytime

Bump... the titanium BP43 that Tokkante's AD was talking about must be the Spitfire version dropped earlier this month. The AD thought it would be first quarter 2022. Wonder why it got moved up, or was the AD just mistaken?


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## Kakemonster

I sincerely hope not that the mark xviii is the last iteration of the mark series.


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## Kakemonster

jerseytime said:


> Bump... the titanium BP43 that Tokkante's AD was talking about must be the Spitfire version dropped earlier this month. The AD thought it would be first quarter 2022. Wonder why it got moved up, or was the AD just mistaken?


Hard to say. It didn't seem like the AD was 100% certain of the exact release window. But does give some validity to the AD. I just hope that IWC aren't planning to discontinue the mark series.


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## jerseytime

Kakemonster said:


> Hard to say. It didn't seem like the AD was 100% certain of the exact release window. But does give some validity to the AD. I just hope that IWC aren't planning to discontinue the mark series.


It would be a pretty bold decision (to cancel the Mark), and not the right one, in my view. Mark and Spitfire lines share a size window (except the Spitfire BPs), but they're pretty distinct in their design language. IWC has defintely lavished more attention on the Spitfires over the past few years, but that just means the Mark line is ripe for renewal. There's a big space for an attractive (but serious), non-vintage inspired, mid-size flieger, and that's the space the Mark line has filled for years (many, many, many years).


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## AnonPi

Well, discontinued Mark XVIII could just mean new Mark XIX.


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## jerseytime

That is a hopeful interpretation!


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## Purefix

AnonPi said:


> Well, discontinued Mark XVIII could just mean new Mark XIX.


Hope so. Due for a mark XIX.


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## Kakemonster

jerseytime said:


> It would be a pretty bold decision (to cancel the Mark), and not the right one, in my view. Mark and Spitfire lines share a size window (except the Spitfire BPs), but they're pretty distinct in their design language. IWC has defintely lavished more attention on the Spitfires over the past few years, but that just means the Mark line is ripe for renewal. There's a big space for an attractive (but serious), non-vintage inspired, mid-size flieger, and that's the space the Mark line has filled for years (many, many, many years).


I fully agree. However, I also support the point made in Tokkante's video, namely that their current pilot offerings are a bit messy with too much overlap. They should introduce a mark that more faithful to the original, i.e baton style hands, no dots at the triangle etc. This will help to also separate it more from the big pilot 43.


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## jerseytime

This is a fun thread. Baton hands would be really bold (if historically accurate). Sinn does that for the U50, and it works, but it would be a real departure for the Mark at this point. No dots at the triangle -- yes! Date and no-date versions. And some fun dial colors, maybe at least one exclusive to the Mark (not just LPP blue, which is probably going away anyway). The Spitfires have that exclusive army-olive green. For the Mark, racing green, and... orange? Is there an historical color they could call on? I really hope it's not just the Antoine brown...


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## jerseytime

Did some homework... so looks like baton hands were used up though the Mark 15, although the hour hand was kind of a pointy baton. So, I guess it wouldn’t be that big a departure. More of a return to form, and would definitely distinguish the Mark from other IWC pilots...


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## desk jockey

I’m still hoping for a new Aquatimer. Been waiting three years now, I guess we’ll know soon enough.


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## jerseytime

desk jockey said:


> I’m still hoping for a new Aquatimer. Been waiting three years now, I guess we’ll know soon enough.


I'm new to these product cycles... is there a time of the year when new releases typically happen?


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## Kakemonster

jerseytime said:


> Did some homework... so looks like baton hands were used up though the Mark 15, although the hour hand was kind of a pointy baton. So, I guess it wouldn’t be that big a departure. More of a return to form, and would definitely distinguish the Mark from other IWC pilots...


Yeah, that is my thought too. Just mimic the design of the mark xv combined with the new spitfire movement and 39mm case. But if that ever happens it will probably be some limited hondikee edition or something.


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## gyang333

jerseytime said:


> I'm new to these product cycles... is there a time of the year when new releases typically happen?


IWC like other brands will release throughout the year, but the big lineup refresh happens at Watches & Wonders (in March?)


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## Purefix

Kakemonster said:


> Yeah, that is my thought too. Just mimic the design of the mark xv combined with the new spitfire movement and 39mm case. But if that ever happens it will probably be some limited hondikee edition or something.


That would make a great mark xix... and no hodinkee limited edition of course.


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## watchbreather2

Yes a new aquatimer is long over due,hopefully one will be out very soon


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## jerseytime

watchbreather2 said:


> Yes a new aquatimer is long over due,hopefully one will be out very soon


Most of the conversation of this thread has been about pilot‘s watches. What are you looking for in a new Aquatimer?


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## desk jockey

jerseytime said:


> Most of the conversation of this thread has been about pilot‘s watches. What are you looking for in a new Aquatimer?


Well, the thread is titled 2022 IWC new models so no reason to restrict the scope to only pilot's watches 

I would like only a few things to change on the AT. In this price bracket, it should be based on the 32110 movement. It only makes sense. Also, dial with some texture on it (e.g. the vertical striping as per the AT 2000 - looks incredible). I would also prefer a see-through case back myself (if 32110 is used) as it's a looker in IWC finish. Lastly, perhaps slightly bigger indices and more lume. 

I dig the current bezel. I would be happy for IWC to keep it, I think it works visually and functionally. Maybe they can jooj it up somehow, but optional. 

Basically, I am keen to buy it, but what holds me back is the expectation that IWC will finally release a newer model - specifically with the 70hr PR 32110 movement, which I think is a no-brainer. Pretty weak, I know, should just buy it if I like it, but I think it is overpriced for what it offers today.


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## gyang333

I wonder what the thoughts are on this; but IWC tends to focus on one watchline at SIHH/W&W. Obviously, the two money makers are Pilots and Portuguieser. So, is it a flawed release strategy to focus on one line per year, when you have Portofino (remember when Kern's IWC tried to hype that year up with a pretty huge campaign), DaVinci, Ingenieur, AquaTimer that are not super attention grabbing/sellers?


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## Kakemonster

gyang333 said:


> I wonder what the thoughts are on this; but IWC tends to focus on one watchline at SIHH/W&W. Obviously, the two money makers are Pilots and Portuguieser. So, is it a flawed release strategy to focus on one line per year, when you have Portofino (remember when Kern's IWC tried to hype that year up with a pretty huge campaign), DaVinci, Ingenieur, AquaTimer that are not super attention grabbing/sellers?


I agree, however instead of releasing multiple new watches within various collections at the same time (i.e. at w&w etc.), they should try to spread the releases more throughout the year as well. IWC are definitely guilty of announcing items which take a long time before they actually are available. 

Several of their models are due for a refresh, particularly the ingenieur, aquatimer and the mark series (although it falls within their pilot offerings).


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## tikander

Kakemonster said:


> I agree, however instead of releasing multiple new watches within various collections at the same time (i.e. at w&w etc.), they should try to spread the releases more throughout the year as well. IWC are definitely guilty of announcing items which take a long time before they actually are available.
> 
> Several of their models are due for a refresh, particularly the ingenieur, aquatimer and the mark series (although it falls within their pilot offerings).


Well IWC has done their releases a bit differently over the past couple of years especially with pilot's watches and also with Portofino; some new chronos lately across the pilot range, and the semi big pilot 43. Also the 39 porto chrono was announced last year.

Regarding the Mark series the XVIII is coming close to the end of a typical cycle, but might still go on for one more year as well. The marks production periods roughly (and based on my memory only):
Mark XII -1994-1998 - 5 years
Mark XV - 1999-2005 - 7 years
Mark XVI - 2006-2011 - 6 years
Mark XVII - 2012-2016 - 5 years
Mark XVIII - 2017- going on 5 years now I believe...

If I had to guess I would also say the Ingenieur range and then maybe the Aquatimer would be next in line, if not the Da Vinci, for this year.


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## Kakemonster

tikander said:


> Well IWC has done their releases a bit differently over the past couple of years especially with pilot's watches and also with Portofino; some new chronos lately across the pilot range, and the semi big pilot 43. Also the 39 porto chrono was announced last year.
> 
> Regarding the Mark series the XVIII is coming close to the end of a typical cycle, but might still go on for one more year as well. The marks production periods roughly (and based on my memory only):
> Mark XII -1994-1998 - 5 years
> Mark XV - 1999-2005 - 7 years
> Mark XVI - 2006-2011 - 6 years
> Mark XVII - 2012-2016 - 5 years
> Mark XVIII - 2017- going on 5 years now I believe...
> 
> If I had to guess I would also say the Ingenieur range and then maybe the Aquatimer would be next in line, if not the Da Vinci, for this year.


Yeah, you are probably right that they will not do anything with the mark series this year. Hope that they focus on the ingenieur and the aquatimer.


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## JOPatt14

Interesting...


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## Jonathan T

i miss the baton hands from the Fliegerchronographs IWC made in the 90s and early 2000s. bring them back!


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## njhinde

Kakemonster said:


> Yeah, you are probably right that they will not do anything with the mark series this year. Hope that they focus on the ingenieur and the aquatimer.


Same here ! As much as I would like to see a Mark XIX released at some point (pretty much as mentioned so far - with a 39mm Spitfire case and movement), I would be more interested in new Ingenieurs (Genta-style) and the Aquatimers (slightly reduced case size).


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## GregoryD

The Ingy and Aquatimer are _way_ overdue for a revamp, so I'm hoping to see those updated.


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## neons

I had inquired about a Mojave Mark XVIII to someone from corporate, and they said unlikely, _but _a Mojave Pilot Chrono 41 was in the works. Hopefully it will be released this year


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## EyeDoubleYouSee

The current Ingenieur does very little for me and my local AD has indicated IWC isn't allotting them anymore. I'm hoping they do a redesign of that.


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## Dima_real

It seems the Ingenieur will be redesigned. There is a huge hype about the Gerald Genta inspired designs and integrated bracelets. The IWC Ingenieur is an original Gerald Genta design and the company must finally take advantage.


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## EyeDoubleYouSee

Dima_real said:


> It seems the Ingenieur will be redesigned. There is a huge hype about the Gerald Genta inspired designs and integrated bracelets. The IWC Ingenieur is an original Gerald Genta design and the company must finally take advantage.


I fully expect an Ingenieur redesign, especially now that IWC has announced an extended partnership with Mercedes AMG Petronas. 

Based on everything I have seen from Chris Grainger (he has been amazing for IWC), I believe he would be interested in bringing back a Genta inspired Ingenieur. I would argue the only way that doesn't happen is the higher ups at Richemont don't let that happen.


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## EAT 2824

The fact that this version of the Ingenieuer is NOT even antimagnetic felt like an insult to the consumer and to the watch itself.


Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk


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## Hosea

3 weeks ahead of Watch and Wonders....still no hint of new IWCs particularly the Ingenieur.
Hopefully not another year of disappointment.


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## jerseytime

Hosea said:


> 3 weeks ahead of Watch and Wonders....still no hint of new IWCs particularly the Ingenieur.
> Hopefully not another year of disappointment.


Biding their time, I hope! Maybe we'll get a teaser later this week...


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## EyeDoubleYouSee

Hosea said:


> 3 weeks ahead of Watch and Wonders....still no hint of new IWCs particularly the Ingenieur.
> Hopefully not another year of disappointment.


Have there been any hints of anything?


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## jerseytime

Coincidence? Seems like someone may have advance notice of something...
In-Depth: Gone And Kind Of Slightly Forgotten: The IWC Ref. 3521 Chronometer Ingenieur
In-Depth: Gone And Kind Of Slightly Forgotten: The IWC Ref. 3521 Chronometer Ingenieur


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## EyeDoubleYouSee

jerseytime said:


> Coincidence? Seems like someone may have advance notice of something...
> In-Depth: Gone And Kind Of Slightly Forgotten: The IWC Ref. 3521 Chronometer Ingenieur
> In-Depth: Gone And Kind Of Slightly Forgotten: The IWC Ref. 3521 Chronometer Ingenieur


There is a lot of buzz in the watch community with the upcoming Watches & Wonders. The current Ingenieur is basically unavailable so it seems like it's destined to be discontinued or updated.

It seems fairly obvious to most observers that an IWC Ingenieur in the Genta style would be a major hit. It's unclear to me whether this article means anything or if it's a reaction to the current climate.


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## Alimamy

The podcasters over at Scottish watches said last week that they signed an NDA, but are very excited about IWC later this month.

We shall see...


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## deuxani

Alimamy said:


> The podcasters over at Scottish watches said last week that they signed an NDA, but are very excited about IWC later this month.
> 
> We shall see...


Let’s hope he doesn’t just gets excited about Pilot models 

I’ve been waiting for a real Ingenieur for years now! And especially one more faithful to either the Genta design or the version after that.



















If it doesn’t come out this year I will look elsewhere (Chopard Alpine Eagle or Zenith Defy Classic Skeleton).


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## Alimamy

deuxani said:


> Let’s hope he doesn’t just gets excited about Pilot models
> 
> I’ve been waiting for a real Ingenieur for years now! And especially one more faithful to either the Genta design or the version after that.
> 
> View attachment 16489394
> 
> 
> View attachment 16489399
> 
> 
> If it doesn’t come out this year I will look elsewhere (Chopard Alpine Eagle or Zenith Defy Classic Skeleton).


I am crossing my fingers, too. I just bought a Spitfire Auto, which shows IWC can produce a relatively thin watch with soft iron inner cage using the IWC 32110. The links on the Portugieser bracelet could also be a good candidate for an integrated Ingeniuer bracelet, in the style of the references you mentioned. 

Nonetheless, I am excited for this month in new watch releases all around.


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## deuxani

Alimamy said:


> I am crossing my fingers, too. I just bought a Spitfire Auto, which shows IWC can produce a relatively thin watch with soft iron inner cage using the IWC 32110. The links on the Portugieser bracelet could also be a good candidate for an integrated Ingeniuer bracelet, in the style of the references you mentioned.
> 
> Nonetheless, I am excited for this month in new watch releases all around.


I have my fingers crossed! For it to be interesting for me it needs to be relatively thin (less than 11mm), well finished with mixed brushing and polishing (not like the 3239 which felt too matte), have a nice dial (not matte or too simple) and have a bracelet that tapers. Like you mentioned, that Portugieser bracelet would fit it nicely (maybe some nice chamfering added too). In 3 more weeks we’ll know if we will have to wait one more year


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## jerseytime

Alimamy said:


> I am crossing my fingers, too. I just bought a Spitfire Auto, which shows IWC can produce a relatively thin watch with soft iron inner cage using the IWC 32110. The links on the Portugieser bracelet could also be a good candidate for an integrated Ingeniuer bracelet, in the style of the references you mentioned.
> 
> Nonetheless, I am excited for this month in new watch releases all around.


Stainless steel or bronze, for the auto? How do you like it?


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## NightScar

one of my favorite and always wanted was the 3239 design-wise, i really, really like it but it was just too big and then i feel like it was all downhill from there

i hope for a similar design in a smaller case, 38mm would be perfect since it wears bigger but maybe 40mm max


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## dkbs

IWC phased out 3239 long time ago because it could not generate enough profit due to ...

1. It need a relative smaller movement -- while all current IWC/ETA small movements could not lead to a premium price tag
2. It has complicated case design and cost more money to manufacture. 
3. And then, retail price is too high, easily hit $7-8000 level at today's market 

There are too many competitors at this price range, even Rolex datejust shows MSRP lower than $7000 (though market asks for more).






NightScar said:


> one of my favorite and always wanted was the 3239 design-wise, i really, really like it but it was just too big and then i feel like it was all downhill from there
> 
> i hope for a similar design in a smaller case, 38mm would be perfect since it wears bigger but maybe 40mm max


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## deuxani

dkbs said:


> IWC phased out 3239 long time ago because it could not generate enough profit due to ...
> 
> 1. It need a relative smaller movement -- while all current IWC/ETA small movements could not lead to a premium price tag
> 2. It has complicated case design and cost more money to manufacture.
> 3. And then, retail price is too high, easily hit $7-8000 level at today's market
> 
> There are too many competitors at this price range, even Rolex datejust shows MSRP lower than $7000 (though market asks for more).


Good points! It explains well enough why they removed it from their line up. With the current watch situation however they should definitely try again. Rolex is gone at that price point (nothing available at retail), IWC has really nice in house movements now at lower price points and most importantly…. the demand for integrated bracelet watches and especially a true Gerald Genta one is enormous! I wouldn’t even mind if it’s priced at 12k or so as long as it has finishing up to par with the Chopard Alpine Eagle or the Girard Perregaux Laureato.


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## Alimamy

jerseytime said:


> Stainless steel or bronze, for the auto? How do you like it?


Steel.

I am loving it! It's a great everyday watch for me: not too flashy, relatively thin, wears well on any strap, water and magnetic resistant.

I am finding that I really appreciate the handset. The broad hands make the watch very legible. There's also a bit of chamfer on the lugs, and some polishing on the bezel, that keep the watch interesting.

I wish there was more information about the IWC 32110. I would like to see photos of a disassembled movement. The silicon escape wheel and palet fork is a somewhat unique and new idea. Mine is gaining about 2.6 seconds a day on wrist, but I can almost gain it back by storing 9 up over night.


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## jerseytime

Another well-placed article about an Ingenieur. Once is a coincidence, twice is... a clue?








Collector's Series - Mark and his Gold IWC Big Ingenieur IW500503


The Collector's Series - Interviewing Mark about how he acquired his gold IWC Big Ingenieur IW500503 when he actually wanted a Nautilus 5711.




monochrome-watches.com


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## EyeDoubleYouSee

The appetite for an Ingenieur is out of control


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## martin_blank

Seems like the writing is on the wall for IWC but I am very much over the integrated bracelet, RO vibe we have been living in for the last 5 years. 

Personally I’d rather see a Portofino redesign, different hand sets and display backs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deuxani

martin_blank said:


> Seems like the writing is on the wall for IWC but I am very much over the integrated bracelet, RO vibe we have been living in for the last 5 years.
> 
> Personally I’d rather see a Portofino redesign, different hand sets and display backs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If everyone was walking around with Royal Oaks because of the hype I would probably feel the same, but that’s definitely not the case. The Royal Oak has been unobtainable for the last couple of years and the Ingenieur was designed by the same man, so it would be great for Genta and IWC fans alike


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## EyeDoubleYouSee

martin_blank said:


> Seems like the writing is on the wall for IWC but I am very much over the integrated bracelet, RO vibe we have been living in for the last 5 years.
> 
> Personally I’d rather see a Portofino redesign, different hand sets and display backs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It seems logical they go Ingenieur but I wouldn't go as far as saying "The writing is on the wall"


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## Kirkawall

Alimamy said:


> Steel.
> 
> I am loving it! It's a great everyday watch for me: not too flashy, relatively thin, wears well on any strap, water and magnetic resistant.
> 
> I am finding that I really appreciate the handset. The broad hands make the watch very legible. There's also a bit of chamfer on the lugs, and some polishing on the bezel, that keep the watch interesting.
> 
> I wish there was more information about the IWC 32110. I would like to see photos of a disassembled movement. The silicon escape wheel and palet fork is a somewhat unique and new idea. Mine is gaining about 2.6 seconds a day on wrist, but I can almost gain it back by storing 9 up over night.


Great pix and description!

I have also been impressed with just how sharp the transitions are on the case, and how precise each edge is. And then, there's that moment when the turn your wrist and the polished edges of those hands catch the light.

It's a great example of how a simple design can be executed so well that it becomes beautiful without losing any of its purpose and functionality, 

I've always loved the Ingenieur -- would love to see a sanely-priced modern iteration.


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## Nate11

With all the talk of a new Ingy I haven’t seen much about the aquatimer. Isn’t that thing overdue for a refresh?


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## desk jockey

Nate11 said:


> With all the talk of a new Ingy I haven’t seen much about the aquatimer. Isn’t that thing overdue for a refresh?


100% - this is the one I am waiting for (already mentioned earlier in this thread). I am sensing diminishing commitment from IWC to this line, though. I dearly hope I am wrong and we'll see something nice this year. If not, there's always the 3719 on a bracelet...


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## deuxani

Well, the sitemap of the W&W site has leaked and no Ingenieur 😠 Only Pilots Pilots Pilots. I will shop elsewhere then.


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## snikerdewdle

deuxani said:


> Well, the sitemap of the W&W site has leaked and no Ingenieur 😠 Only Pilots Pilots Pilots. I will shop elsewhere then.


Do you have a link to the list? I've only seen the rolex and tudors so far


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## GregoryD

Wayback Machine



If you search for IWC you'll see all their stuff. 

It's mind boggling that they _still_ don't have a new Ingy or Aquatimer to release - those two lines are so outdated at this point. For me IWC is becoming increasingly dull and boring as they just release one pilot model after another.


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## snikerdewdle

GregoryD said:


> Wayback Machine
> 
> 
> 
> If you search for IWC you'll see all their stuff.
> 
> It's mind boggling that they _still_ don't have a new Ingy or Aquatimer to release - those two lines are so outdated at this point. For me IWC is becoming increasingly dull and boring as they just release one pilot model after another.


My man ty! I agree as well the Ingy and the Aquatimer need some love.


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## Toolwatchmd

deuxani said:


> Well, the sitemap of the W&W site has leaked and no Ingenieur 😠 Only Pilots Pilots Pilots. I will shop elsewhere then.


We kind of knew that from their teasers. After the success of the Mojave, they decided more colored ceramics were the way to go. We are going to have a bunch of colorful Moonswat…errr Big Pilots.


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## Nate11

Nothing like waiting a year for a new color.


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## Hosea

Nate11 said:


> Nothing like waiting a year for a new color.


Precisely.
3 years i have been waiting for new Ingenieur. IWC really disappointing me. 
Even snall, independent brands who don't have any history of integrated bracelet sport watch, dare to release their product, because clearly the demand is there. People are going for this kind of watch like crazy.
IWC have the design, have the history and legacy. They just need to re issue it with their entry level in house movement. Is that really hard? 
I do not understand what are they thinking. 

They just lost another loyal customer.


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## Moonshine Runner

_*IWC at Watches & Wonders.*_
As novelties are presented: Five new Pantone colors for the ceramic cases of the pilot watches…









… I can't even describe how disappointed I am! The Aquatimer is now felt 100 years old and only available with black dials and looking at the Ingenieur already falls into a coma from boredom since the launch.


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## desk jockey

What kind of BS is this... Is anyone actually in charge at IWC? It feels like the brand is run on autopilot (the irony...). What a complete and utter disappointment.


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## Moonshine Runner

@desk jockey 
Christoph Grainger-Herr has been at the helm for five years. The man used to be an interior designer – maybe that explains why the focus is on colors instead of new watches.


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## anch

IWC let us down big time. At least Rolex gave us something to talk about with that godawful LHD GMT.. IWC's releases are simply forgettable.
We've got 41, 43 and 44,5 mm Pilot Chrono's? New movement or not, it's just not what the fanbase is after.

Aquatimer and Ingenieur will remain in hibernation for another year, yet again.


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## Kakemonster

If IWC intends to double down on their pilots offerings, they should have least released a new mark. These new releases are a big yawn to me.


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## HorologyCPH

Some ****e releases from IWC. No new Ingenieur and no new Aqua Timer. 

Are they sleeping at the HQ? 

So much hype at W&W, but sooooo many disapointments. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Toolwatchmd

It’s the year of color. Colorful dials, colorful cases, colorful moonswatches…


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## jerseytime

I’m disappointed in no new Ingenieur and dive watch. However I have to say, the new Top Guns are beautiful. Deep, heady colors for the whole case, very durable and light, much harder to do right than just a pink or blue dial. I really like them.


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## ctw19

jerseytime said:


> I’m disappointed in no new Ingenieur and dive watch. However I have to say, the new Top Guns are beautiful. Deep, heady colors for the whole case, very durable and light, much harder to do right than just a pink or blue dial. I really like them.


I actually like a couple of the new releases too. But they feel more like something that should have rolled out mid-year without much fanfare or buildup, rather than at the biggest annual watch show where most other manufacturers are releasing watches that are actually new. It's disappointing to me that IWC has so much potential in their catalog that (imo) they aren't capitalizing on.


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## Toolwatchmd

ctw19 said:


> I actually like a couple of the new releases too. But they feel more like something that should have rolled out mid-year without much fanfare or buildup, rather than at the biggest annual watch show where most other manufacturers are releasing watches that are actually new. It's disappointing to me that IWC has so much potential in their catalog that (imo) they aren't capitalizing on.


IWC is trying to make their Big Pilot (the BP43 in particular) an immediate icon in the way Rolex has the Submariner and Omega has the Speedmaster…and even Breitling has the Navitimer. Putting out a brand new Ingenieur would take away a lot of attention from the Pilot when IWC is trying to position that watch as an icon. Before the BP43, the Big Pilot was a niche watch worn by big men. The BP43 and chronos have the potential to be immediately recognizable for IWC.

We see with the recent Omega X Swatch collaboration that brands are trying to penetrate into public consciousness in a way that only Rolex has. The recent Rolex hypebeast has left a void in the market that brands are rushing to fill. That void is the general, non-watch nerd public. The guy who goes to the store once to buy one nice watch to celebrate a milestone and is told that all the Rolexes are sold out…what is he going to buy next? A Speedmaster? IWC wants that to be the Pilot chrono or BP43.


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## JorgeB

I truly don't understand what they are doing. As much as an intelligent man the CEO might look to me, I don't get why he keeps pushing the Pilot models, it's becoming a one model brand and its getting annoying, soooo much to go for and you decide to double down on the Pilot line? Oh wow.

So sad for the Aquatimer and Ingenieur.


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## desk jockey

@Toolwatchmd - interesting take. You could point to AP Royal Oak as the other side of the icon coin, though. I hope IWC don't become a victim of their own success with pilot's watches in the same way that AP have with the RO. It's good to have many strings to one's bow.


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## Toolwatchmd

desk jockey said:


> @Toolwatchmd - interesting take. You could point to AP Royal Oak as the other side of the icon coin, though. I hope IWC don't become a victim of their own success with pilot's watches in the same way that AP have with the RO. It's good to have many strings to one's bow.


The BP43 and the Pilot chronos were probably one of the more interesting and talked about releases last year. It gave IWC a lot of momentum. I think they are being cautious to continue to cultivate that line more. The last thing they want to do is bury it under the weight of a genta Ingenieur and lose all of them momentum they’ve developed for brand recognition. The Ingenieur may come, but not until they are satisfied with establishing the Pilot line as the immediate icon of the brand.


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## jerseytime

Toolwatchmd said:


> The BP43 and the Pilot chronos were probably one of the more interesting and talked about releases last year. It gave IWC a lot of momentum. I think they are being cautious to continue to cultivate that line more. The last thing they want to do is bury it under the weight of a genta Ingenieur and lose all of them momentum they’ve developed for brand recognition. The Ingenieur may come, but not until they are satisfied with establishing the Pilot line as the immediate icon of the brand.


This is a good take, and probably the best possible spin on the new releases. "Do one thing, and do it well", as the saying goes. Becoming the go-to top-shelf pilot watch brand isn't a bad corporate goal.


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## Nate11

I think we tend to get so excited for the prospect of new releases that we are inevitably let down and then critical. With that being said, I cannot believe that these are the releases we are getting. Like someone else mentioned, these should’ve been released 6 months ago on a random Tuesday not at W&W’s.


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## ap27

This announcement was fairly disappointing. They made 2 chrono colorways (not even new models, just colors), 1 ceratanium 41m chrono (this model also already existed w the Tribute to 3705. they just used the current dial and added a glass case back) and a black bp43. In terms of “new” models it really was only the bp43 and a new case back for the ceratanium 41 chrono. Can’t say they were the most exciting or inspiring colorways either - white, green, black.

I’m sure the Ingenieur is coming, and they don’t want to just look like they’re cashing in on the integrated bracelet trend lazily and thoughtlessly (Zenith, Bell & Ross), and I guess the Aquatimer is being ignored even as the demand for divers watches is high for some strange reason, but even just from a pilots collection only, mid-year release this was weak. 

Like many of you mentioned, this W&W release was less significant than the timezoner+perpetual calendar Ceratanium or titanium+brass bp43 mid year announcements made without fanfare last yr.


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## carlhaluss

Never been a fan of any ceramics on watches. And I am a bit worn out seeing the endless stream of new pilot chronographs. Being that it is almost impossible to find a new Aquatimer at any Boutique or AD, my bet was on a new model lineup. But Watches And Wonders doesn't mean it still cannot happen. Overall, the entire show regardless of brand was simply uninspiring. Mind you, that is only my opinion.


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## Toolwatchmd

The biggest problem with modern IWC is that a large part of what you’re paying for is the marketing budget. Every time they sign another celebrity to be brand ambassador, I think “well that’s $1000 added to the price of a watch.”


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## Dave A

I think the industry needs to be cut some slack, given the last couple of years.
Everything is behind with 3 -6 month waits on many brands.
Simply surviving, paying bills and keeping servicing/warranty work to a reasonable lead time should always be priority.

Look at new car sales .... Shambolic!


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## Gebbeth

I've said in the past that IWC has too many watches in its lineup. If it can't or won't put some R&D into the other watch lines, there is really no reason to keep manufacturing and selling them.

So far, IWC is showing that it is really only a pilot's watch company....1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

They seem to care a bit about the Portuguese line, and that's about it. The Ingenieur and Acquatimer are the IWC equivalent of the Air King and Milgauss. Just stringing it along.....with not too much attention spent on them.

Unless they have some long-term changes in plan, or perhaps they will stretch out releases like Tudor did all last year, just get rid of the lines already.


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## Nate11

Dave A said:


> I think the industry needs to be cut some slack, given the last couple of years.
> Everything is behind with 3 -6 month waits on many brands.
> Simply surviving, paying bills and keeping servicing/warranty work to a reasonable lead time should always be priority.
> 
> Look at new car sales .... Shambolic!


But the luxury watch industry had a marquis year sales-wise.


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## Hosea

jerseytime said:


> This is a good take, and probably the best possible spin on the new releases. "Do one thing, and do it well", as the saying goes. Becoming the go-to top-shelf pilot watch brand isn't a bad corporate goal.


I appreciate this theory. But i think Pilot and Ingenieur has different audiences, different market. Not everybody like the concept of integrated bracelet, or vice versa a pilot style watches.
If IWC are confident about Pilot watch, they should not worry to launch Ingenieur at the same time.
Rolex launch GMT master together with Yatchmaster, oyster perpetual, explorer etc.
Omega launch the new Planet Ocean Ultra Deep together with Aqua Terra and even the surprising Moonswatch.
Last year they launch seamaster 300 with De ville.

So it is pity that IWC does not have confidence to launch the new Ingenieur (if any) in the biggest watch fair. It should be a very good opportunity. 

But hey, what do i know? I am not en expert in Marketing. Personally i just think this is the weakest release of IWC in recent years.


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## Dave A

Nate11 said:


> But the luxury watch industry had a marquis year sales-wise.


Richemont Group had to buy back all unsold stock a couple of years back - Do you really believe they destroyed it as claimed?

I too believe they are diluting the pilot thing too much, but Richemont and Swatch are like birds of a feather when it comes to profit.


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## Jamman

I would like to see a new 41 pilot plain dial no date (like the BP43) for a "reasonable" price. I think that would be a winner.


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## ivanos

Has Richemont given up IWC?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gyang333

Dave A said:


> Richemont Group had to buy back all unsold stock a couple of years back - Do you really believe they destroyed it as claimed?
> 
> I too believe they are diluting the pilot thing too much, but Richemont and Swatch are like birds of a feather when it comes to profit.


They probably dumped it on WatchFinder who are slowly liquidating the inventory.


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## X-va

IWC now stands for Interchanging Watch Colours, bereft of real ideas, they’re like kids testing out their new set of crayons.


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## jerseytime

Well, everyone's certainly entitled to their own opinion. For my part, the new Top Gun releases aren't what I was expecting, but the more I look at them, the more I think they really are quite special. I'd love to wear one -- if I could afford it!


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## LetItRide1978

Toolwatchmd said:


> The biggest problem with modern IWC is that a large part of what you’re paying for is the marketing budget. Every time they sign another celebrity to be brand ambassador, I think “well that’s $1000 added to the price of a watch.”


On this topic, anyone else notice the price increases today on the IWC website? 

As for W&W, I was hoping for a 41mm Pilot Chrono in the Mojave Desert color. Instead we got Ceratanium, which is cool, but almost double the price of the non-ceramic 41mm Pilot Chronos.


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## Gebbeth

I am hoping that IWC releases new watches throughout the year instead of all at once at W&W. Last year, after the BP 43s, they quietly came out with the BP in full ceratanium, the Worldtimer in ceratanium, the Spitfire 43, and the Petit Prince Monopusher. So who knows.

It would have been a bigger splash to release new Ingenieurs and Aquatimers at W&W, but honestly, I think IWC is having a hell of a time trying to figure out what they could do to separate themselves from the thousands and thousands of diver watches and sports watches out there. I think it's a lot harder than most people think.


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## jerseytime

Gebbeth said:


> I am hoping that IWC releases new watches throughout the year instead of all at once at W&W. Last year, after the BP 43s, they quietly came out with the BP in full ceratanium, the Worldtimer in ceratanium, the Spitfire 43, and the Petit Prince Monopusher. So who knows.
> 
> It would have been a bigger splash to release new Ingenieurs and Aquatimers at W&W, but honestly, I think IWC is having a hell of a time trying to figure out what they could do to separate themselves from the thousands and thousands of diver watches and sports watches out there. I think it's a lot harder than most people think.


IWC's "Colors of Top Gun" video gives us a peek at a BP 43 in woodland green, which isn't on the website yet but will probably be one of those post-W&W releases...


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## Gebbeth

jerseytime said:


> IWC's "Colors of Top Gun" video gives us a peek at a BP 43 in woodland green, which isn't on the website yet but will probably be one of those post-W&W releases...


That would be nice, but something about their colored ceramic cases that come off looking like plastic in photos. In the flesh, they are different, but they don't photograph well, ending up with a not-to-flattering look in advertisements.

I think a lot of people are foaming at the mouth though for an Ingenieur and Aquatimer refresh. IWC has pretty much saturated their pilot's watch lineup.


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## Toolwatchmd

Are these new ceramic cases made of “bioceramic” by any chance?

I just can’t get into fully ceramic watches. I get that the material is cool and it serves some niche purposes, but I would much rather have a steel or titanium watch any day. I don’t care about scratches. 

Make a black dial BP 43 in titanium with a full titanium bracelet and you can take all of my money.


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## Kirkawall

LetItRide1978 said:


> *On this topic, anyone else notice the price increases today on the IWC website? *
> 
> As for W&W, I was hoping for a 41mm Pilot Chrono in the Mojave Desert color. Instead we got Ceratanium, which is cool, but almost double the price of the non-ceramic 41mm Pilot Chronos.


Yep.

Mk now CAD 5800.00, Spitfire Automatic up to CAD 6300.00, and so on and so on. Expected and understandable and IWC seem to have avoided the Omega-style multiple price hikes per year, but it's steadily pushing the IWC entry point higher and higher.


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## JLittle

Kirkawall said:


> Yep.
> 
> Mk now CAD 5800.00, Spitfire Automatic up to CAD 6300.00, and so on and so on. Expected and understandable and IWC seem to have avoided the Omega-style multiple price hikes per year, but it's steadily pushing the IWC entry point higher and higher.


That depends on the model. When I bought my Seamaster 300M in 2020, it's MSRP was $5200. It's 2022, and it's now $5400. When taking into account 9.6 cumulative inflation, it's actually cheaper now. The Speedy went up a bit more than that, but only AFTER it got a brand new movement and bracelet. I still got it for $5200 brand new from the AD last summer.

All prices are going up. Omega isn't unique or overly aggressive in it's price hikes. Now Rolex had some rather large price increases Jan 1st. Example, their GMT Master II went up by $1050.


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## martin_blank

I guess everyone is tired of pilots and while I agree there is a bit of a one-trick pony vibe coming out of IWC pretty much ever since that John Meyer/ BP vid…I’ve been dreaming about Woodland green the last couple days 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kirkawall

JLittle said:


> That depends on the model. When I bought my Seamaster 300M in 2020, it's MSRP was $5200. It's 2022, and it's now $5400. When taking into account 9.6 cumulative inflation, it's actually cheaper now. The Speedy went up a bit more than that, but only AFTER it got a brand new movement and bracelet. I still got it for $5200 brand new from the AD last summer.
> 
> All prices are going up. Omega isn't unique or overly aggressive in it's price hikes. Now Rolex had some rather large price increases Jan 1st. Example, their GMT Master II went up by $1050.


Different country.

When I bought my SMP in 2018, it was CAD 5350.00. Now it's 7450.00. There have been similar rises across the Speedmaster range -- my FOIS was bought in 2020 for just over 5k, at a bit of a premium over the Pro. The new Pro hesalite is an 8k watch here before taxes In 2020 Omega had three separate price hikes here. I would call that run of hikes pretty aggressive. 

Tudor and Rolex are relative bargains here. IWC has been achievable, especially with their Mk range, but it's getting harder to find any offerings from a Swiss mid-tier luxury brand at the 5k price point, which IMO has historically been a historically important one. And discounts from ADs are not as easy to find. 

Anyway, a different conversation. I love my IWCs. But I would think twice before buying all but one of them again at their current AD prices.


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## opinian

Actually the new Ceratanium chronograph is really cool looking in my book. It's probably too big for me to pull off (and rather expensive), but I feel like they really got that stealth look right here.

Check it out at


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## Gebbeth

It's another pilot's watch though. They should be able to do better or just drop some of their model lines.


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## Robertus

Unfortunately nothing really new in the last few YEARS. No new AT family, 3768 still without micro adjust clasp for an ETA movement for over 8k Euros... shame. I'm happy to have 4 watches from between 1996 and 2010, all with 7750 but what a difference! Absolutely disappointed. Still fingers crossed for both that micro adjust clasp and a new AT family - more and more hopeless as times pass. Kern or pre-Kern times wanted...


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## LetItRide1978

opinian said:


> Actually the new Ceratanium chronograph is really cool looking in my book. It's probably too big for me to pull off (and rather expensive), but I feel like they really got that stealth look right here.


Try one on. You might be surprised. I have 41mm Portugieser and Spitfire Chronographs and I think they are the perfect size on my small 6.5 inch wrist.


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## jerseytime

LetItRide1978 said:


> Try one on. You might be surprised. I have 41mm Portugieser and Spitfire Chronographs and I think they are the perfect size on my small 6.5 inch wrist.


I tried on the 43/44-mm top gun chrono at a Tourneau recently and it wore surprisingly small on 7'' wrist. great watch.


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## deuxani

This is a nice one!




























Might be a difficult choice for some between this and the Woodland.


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## jerseytime

deuxani said:


> This is a nice one!
> 
> View attachment 16605237
> 
> 
> View attachment 16605238
> 
> 
> View attachment 16605236
> 
> 
> Might be a difficult choice for some between this and the Woodland.
> 
> View attachment 16605240
> 
> 
> View attachment 16605241


Wheres that stainless steel BP from? Never seen that shade of green before. Woodland looks awesome. Woodland chrono around?


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## Gebbeth

Wait, when did IWC make a green dial 43 in a stainless steel case? I know they make a bronze model in green.

I can't even find it on the IWC website.


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## deuxani

jerseytime said:


> Wheres that stainless steel BP from? Never seen that shade of green before. Woodland looks awesome. Woodland chrono around?


Coming Soon!


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## inculpable

Gebbeth said:


> Wait, when did IWC make a green dial 43 in a stainless steel case? I know they make a bronze model in green.
> 
> I can't even find it on the IWC website.


How do you know it’s a 43? I just assumed it was the BP 46 on a rubber strap, ie IW501015. Although a green steel 43 would be cool...


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## deuxani

inculpable said:


> How do you know it’s a 43? I just assumed it was the BP 46 on a rubber strap, ie IW501015. Although a green steel 43 would be cool...


The Big Pilot 46 has a power reserve at 3 o’clock, the 43 doesn’t.

By the way that Woodland BP43 is also not on IWC’s site. They are playing the marketing game 😄


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## inculpable

Ah, that’s right. How forgetful of me. Also, the 46 has a date at 6 o clock.


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## sanfong

High chance Mark XIX will use 'in-house movement'...


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## jerseytime

sanfong said:


> High chance Mark XIX will use 'in-house movement'...


??? rumor mill, educated guess... informed speculation???


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## deuxani

Another Pilot I haven’t read anything about yet.

























IW388109 chrono 41mm in bronze and steel. Looks pretty good!


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## JorgeB

Running seconds at 6 pm is a deal breaker. Sorry I can't get past that.


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## Gebbeth

For me, I love the look of bronze....when new. I am not a fan of patina and bronze. The idea of "resetting" the bronze by cleaning, lemon juice, whatever is way too much maintenance.


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## deuxani

JorgeB said:


> Running seconds at 6 pm is a deal breaker. Sorry I can't get past that.


So that would rule out every Chronograph basically 😄



Gebbeth said:


> For me, I love the look of bronze....when new. I am not a fan of patina and bronze. The idea of "resetting" the bronze by cleaning, lemon juice, whatever is way too much maintenance.


Yeah same for me. I like my watches to remain nice and shiny for as long as possible. And like you mentioned, bronze is easy to bring back to its original stage, but it is a hassle. It’s what has kept me from buying a bronze watch. But seeing something like this model always tempts me again, because it looks so good and it’s not as expensive as gold.


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## JorgeB

deuxani said:


> So that would rule out every Chronograph basically 😄


12-9-6 layout chronographs historically have the seconds hand at 9 o clock, leaving the 12 and 6 counters for Chrono functions and giving the watch dial a balanced layout (all chrono Functions “in line”)
So no, not all Chronos, only this one.

what’s even worse, the tribute to 3705 have white subdials at 12 and 6 in white, making the minute counter of the Chrono and the seconds highlighted completely wrong. 
Total error of design, and everything is because of that movement.
Cannot unsee it.


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## deuxani

JorgeB said:


> 12-9-6 layout chronographs historically have the seconds hand at 9 o clock, leaving the 12 and 6 counters for Chrono functions and giving the watch dial a balanced layout (all chrono Functions “in line”)
> So no, not all Chronos, only this one.
> 
> what’s even worse, the tribute to 3705 have white subdials at 12 and 6 in white, making the minute counter of the Chrono and the seconds highlighted completely wrong.
> Total error of design, and everything is because of that movement.
> Cannot unsee it.


Aah sorry, I didn’t know you meant that! I didn’t even notice the difference at first, now I do. The old ETA IWC chronographs were not that bad after all 😄


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## praetor47

Gebbeth said:


> It would have been a bigger splash to release new Ingenieurs and Aquatimers at W&W, but honestly, I think IWC is having a hell of a time trying to figure out what they could do to separate themselves from the thousands and thousands of diver watches and sports watches out there. I think it's a lot harder than most people think.


the Aquatimer is more than distinct enough. unique ratcheting internal bezel, unique case shape. it could do with maybe slightly more original/distinct indices and hands (make the hour/minute hand differentiation a bit more obvious, f.e.), but it already looks like nothing else in the category

my main issue, other than size, is that the "base" models like a bit of "pizzaz" that those ginormous hockey puck 2000m limited editions got, like the scalloped bezel, the "guilloche" dial and funkier lume colour(s). since, iirc, this year is the 40th anniversary of the Porsche Ocean 2000 "Aquatimer" which got its "special edition" ATs before, i was really hoping this would be the year of the AT with more case sizes and cool stuff. alas, seems all the creative people at IWC left long ago


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## Gebbeth

praetor47 said:


> the Aquatimer is more than distinct enough. unique ratcheting internal bezel, unique case shape. it could do with maybe slightly more original/distinct indices and hands (make the hour/minute hand differentiation a bit more obvious, f.e.), but it already looks like nothing else in the category
> 
> my main issue, other than size, is that the "base" models like a bit of "pizzaz" that those ginormous hockey puck 2000m limited editions got, like the scalloped bezel, the "guilloche" dial and funkier lume colour(s). since, iirc, this year is the 40th anniversary of the Porsche Ocean 2000 "Aquatimer" which got its "special edition" ATs before, i was really hoping this would be the year of the AT with more case sizes and cool stuff. alas, seems all the creative people at IWC left long ago


IWC is going where their money is, away from the competition of sports divers and sports dress watches, and headlong into the pilots and pilot's chrono watches. I haven't seen anything but IWC pilots watches of various kinds and variations over the past 5 years or so.

Unless they have something up their sleeves, they are ceding certain markets to the competitors.


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## Kirkawall

deuxani said:


> So that would rule out every Chronograph basically 😄
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah same for me. I like my watches to remain nice and shiny for as long as possible. And like you mentioned, bronze is easy to bring back to its original stage, but it is a hassle. It’s what has kept me from buying a bronze watch. But seeing something like this model always tempts me again, because it looks so good and it’s not as expensive as gold.


Agree about the bronze. I also love the finishing details on IWC's newer SS cases. The mix of brushing and bevels and the sheen of the steel, while not necessarily complicated, is beautifully done, and the transitions are super sharp.

Bronze is something I love the idea of but both of my dips into bronze watches have left me disappointed.


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## GregoryD

A couple more pilot chronos. I really like the blue with orange accents, but wish it was 41mm. Also love the orange colorway, but it might get old after awhile.


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## JorgeB

These two have the running seconds at 9 o clock. That's a win right there.


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## Wally71

Aquatimer watches are "locked" in the website, can't be purchased. Maybe something new is finally coming?


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## Kakemonster

I saw a post on the IWC owners group on facebook regarding the new aquatimer. It is currently available for viewing in boutiques apparently. New movement with a 5 day power reserve.


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## Wally71

Kakemonster said:


> I saw a post on the IWC owners group on facebook regarding the new aquatimer. It is currently available for viewing in boutiques apparently. New movement with a 5 day power reserve.


Nice news, thanks! Is there any aesthetical variation from current design?


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## Gebbeth

NEED PICTURES NOW!


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## Kakemonster

I tried to find the pictures on the facebook forum group, but unable to track them down again 😔


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## Hosea

I was hoping the Ingenieur is the one who got "locked". It should come earlier than New Aquatimer. People are waiting for the updated Genta style, IWC...are you listening?


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## Wally71

Hosea said:


> I was hoping the Ingenieur is the one who got "locked". It should come earlier than New Aquatimer. People are waiting for the updated Genta style, IWC...are you listening?


There pretty solid rumors a new ingenieur will come by the end of the year or maybe beginning of 2023. I know people that work for IWC but their lips are sealed on details, I think they signed tons of NDA.
My only concern is that it will be extremely technical and pricey, at list at the beginning.


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## Kakemonster

Wally71 said:


> Nice news, thanks! Is there any aesthetical variation from current design?


Found this picture from the facebook group. You can see the aquatimer in the back. Credit Alain Hai.


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## Wally71

Kakemonster said:


> Found this picture from the facebook group. You can see the aquatimer in the back. Credit Alain Hai.


Thank you very much! It seems to be pretty much the same, maybe this is the reason for a quiet change.


----------



## jerseytime

Kakemonster said:


> Found this picture from the facebook group. You can see the aquatimer in the back. Credit Alain Hai.
> 
> View attachment 16717703





Kakemonster said:


> Found this picture from the facebook group. You can see the aquatimer in the back. Credit Alain Hai.
> 
> View attachment 16717703


Talk about burying the lead! That's a Mark XX!! Is this real?


----------



## GregoryD

Both the Aquatimer and MarkXX appear identical to current models...or at least I see no differences.


----------



## jerseytime

GregoryD said:


> Both the Aquatimer and MarkXX appear identical to current models...or at least I see no differences.


I could be wrong, but I think they moved the date window a hair to the right.


----------



## Kakemonster

jerseytime said:


> Talk about burying the lead! That's a Mark XX!! Is this real?


Hehe, yeah. This is actually being talked about in another thread on the forum. I can't confirm myself, but most people seem to think it is real.


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## Gebbeth

Is it me or does this Mark XX get rid of the railroad track indices? They are now hashes. The date window does look more inboard to the dial.

Can't tell about the Aquatimer. Then again, the photo shows only 1 watch in the background. This could very well be the existing watch. It's still unclear what the new Aquatimer will really be.


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## Gebbeth

Was there ever a Mark XIX?


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## anonymousmoose

Wally71 said:


> Thank you very much! It seems to be pretty much the same, maybe this is the reason for a quiet change.


That seems to be IWC's motto. Their watch generation have subtile differences.


----------



## Timedummy

Gebbeth said:


> NEED PICTURES NOW!


Just bought it, pics of on wrist attached. It's no different than the Jacque Cousteau on the watch face aesthetically, caseback doesn't have the JC logo since they supposedly ended that relationship with the foundation. It has a new in house movement and a larger power reserve.

Ref# Iw328801


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## klaatu47

Has anybody gotten the Petronas Formula One watch? Would be interested in seeing pics and wear comparison to the steel 41mm chrono. Steel is just a little heavy for me and wears a little on the high side for my 6.75" wrist.


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## gyang333

JLittle said:


> That depends on the model. When I bought my Seamaster 300M in 2020, it's MSRP was $5200. It's 2022, and it's now $5400. When taking into account 9.6 cumulative inflation, it's actually cheaper now. The Speedy went up a bit more than that, but only AFTER it got a brand new movement and bracelet. I still got it for $5200 brand new from the AD last summer.
> 
> All prices are going up. Omega isn't unique or overly aggressive in it's price hikes. Now Rolex had some rather large price increases Jan 1st. Example, their GMT Master II went up by $1050.


That's not really how that works. Inflation can cool down and prices drop, when does a luxury brand lower prices? Very rarely. And just because other things increased in price at a faster rate, did you also get a raise that was more than the price increase of the watches for it to be "cheaper"?


----------

