# Citizen Chronomaster or Grand Seiko or Grand Seiko Spring Drive?



## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm currently contemplating getting:

*Citizen THE CITIZEN CTQ57-1021 Perpetual Calendar * http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_72_103&products_id=2103

or
*GRAND SEIKO MECHANICAL AUTOMATIC WATCH SBGR017*
http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_184_185&products_id=457

or

Grand Seiko Springdrive
SBGA003http://www.seiyajapan.com/product/S-SBGA003/New_Grand_Seiko_Springdrive_SBGA003.html

I love Citizen watches and I love my campanola. 
I've never owned a Seiko, but the Grand Seiko's seem interesting.

Primary purpose is to have an under-stated watch that I can wear to work and work functions. I know for these prices I can get a rolex or something swiss, but I don't like the perception when people see an expensive swiss watch. I certainly don't want to be the guy walking around the office in a rolex.

I'd much rather have something that *I* know is high quality. I thought I would be OK with my Campanola - I mean, it says "Citizen" on it, but it's so nicely done, shiney, and detailed that people stare anyway and I end up fielding questions about how much it costs, etc.

Any thoughts on the above? I'm leaning towards just splurging on the GS Spring Drive and dealing with it being less accurate than the Citizen... but if anyone has any thoughts one way or the other I'm open.

Thanks.


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

I just purchased the SBDB001 Spring Drive, so I'm prejudiced.

Watching the Spring Drive second hand is ... absorbing.

My vote would be for a Spring Drive :-!


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## M4tt (Jan 18, 2007)

I'd go Spring drive too but it's not the easiest choice.


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

Do you think the Seiya price is OK? $4600? I actually can't find anyone else who sells it. 
Thanks for the feedback!


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

*THE CITIZEN CTQ57-1021 Perpetual Calendar *would be my choice.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

ppaulusz said:


> *THE CITIZEN CTQ57-1021 Perpetual Calendar *would be my choice.


The Springdrive is nominally accurate only to 15 seconds per month and though the externals are very nicely done, the smooth seconds hand motion doesn't do anything for me. And I can't see that kind of money for a watch without a perpetual calendar.
The mechanical Seiko, again very nicely made and finished, has neither accuracy nor perpetual calendar going for it. And it's very expensive. 
The Citizen is just as nicely made and finished,though perhaps a little simpler, it is more accurate than either of the Seikos and it has a perpetual calendar. I didn't notice if that particular one was luminous or not, most of the titanium ones are, I believe.
I've had Seiko quartz, Seiko Springdrive, Seiko automatic and Citizen Chronomaster and I agree with ppaulusz...... I'd go with the Citizen with no hesitation at all.


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## GreenHex (Feb 10, 2008)

I don't own either, but would love the be faced with the dilemma of choosing between the two, eventually... and when it comes to it, it's got to be the Citizen Chronomaster.


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

I'd go for the GS because I already have a Chronomaster.

Now I'll try to answer usefully, instead of stupidly. I'd go for the Chronomaster. Not that model for me, but a Chronomaster of some sort. It's a good looking, incredibly set and forget watch.

Next I'd go for the GS. A fantastically well done mechanical movement, and a beautiful watch.

For me, personally, I'd never go for a Spring Drive. Wonderful looking watches with beautiful and ingenious movements, but, as an engineer, I can't find it in my heart to forgive them for the fact that a good Eco-drive accomplishes much the same thing at a hundredth the complexity.


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks Bruce. I went ahead and bought the citizen. 
I may still get the Seiko, but maybe other iterations. I'm curious to get more info on how the spring drive is received in the industry and if it's worth the cost. 

Thanks everyone.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

clarencek said:


> Thanks Bruce. I went ahead and bought the citizen.
> I may still get the Seiko, but maybe other iterations. I'm curious to get more info on how the spring drive is received in the industry and if it's worth the cost.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


I don't think you'll ever regret getting The Citizen and I hope you'll enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.


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## vizi (Oct 24, 2007)

clarencek said:


> I'm currently contemplating getting:
> 
> *Citizen THE CITIZEN CTQ57-1021 Perpetual Calendar * http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_72_103&products_id=2103
> 
> ...


According to me THE CITIZEN CTQ57-1021 Perpetual Calendar :-!


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## Citizen H (Jun 8, 2007)

Congratulations on your purchase!

As an owner of both a Chronomaster and a Springdrive I think they are both worthy but very different choices.

For me, I first acquired the Chronomaster after a dedicated search for a unique watch which demonstrated the current limits of portable quartz timing technology. For me it is a demonstration of Citizen Corp.'s commitment to quartz in favour of the old school balance spring technology. It is a very well assembled product which is far better built than anythingelse in the price bracket.

Later, I stumbled upon the opportunity to purchase my SBGA011 at a price I couldn't refuse. I originally was cynical about the merit of the Springdrive technology (actually I still am) but facinated by the Sekio marketing philosophy about "displaying time in the most natural way possible" ie not segmented but as a continuous flowing motion. So I got the watch despite lacking an AT cut crystal or thermocompensation. Funny thing is it seems to track stable against my Chronmaster to within +1.7 seconds per month... I plan to check it over the course of 12 months to see if it remains as stable.

I think you will definitely enjoy your Chronomaster but like many before me have said "my next acquistion will be..."

Cheers,

Citizen H


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## Fatpants (Sep 6, 2007)

Congrats, looking forward to pictures:-!


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

I second that. Congrats!


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## RPF (Feb 28, 2008)

Technology aside, all three have excellent build quality, though I think the two GS wins on finishing (just a bit).

One more thing. You'll interact with the two GS more than the Citizen, which is truly a set and forget watch other than the 2 DST changes which can be quickset. That may just help you develop an attachment with the GS.

Anihoos, congrats on your purchase Clarencek. I'll love to own one some day.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

Congratulations, enjoy it!:-!


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

So I received my Citizen Chronomaster CTQ57-1021 yesterday. It's surprisingly light - 88 grams. I haven't taken it out of the plastic yet. I really love it, beautiful, clean. I'm not going to unwrap it yet...

I did also order a Grand Seiko Spring Drive SBGA001 - so it will be interesting to compare the two. Will post pictures of that as well. 

Since I only have one wrist, it will be interesting to compare the two and see which one I will prefer.


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## bullosa (Jul 11, 2007)

Congrats on the arrival of your new Chronomaster! Cant wait for your GS to arrive too. The Citizen's dial looks great. :-!


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

bullosa said:


> Congrats on the arrival of your new Chronomaster! Cant wait for your GS to arrive too. The Citizen's dial looks great. :-!


I agree with all the above. Congrats, Clarence! :-!


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks all the GS should get here by the end of the week (!!). Will post pics as well. They're very similar models... but I'm excited to build up my collection, which to-date has consisted of just a few < $500 watches.


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## bompi (Jul 21, 2007)

Mine (SBGF029) arrived this morning and I had to wait til tonight to resize the bracelet (argll !). I'd say it's a great moment, the moment you open the box of your first Grand Seiko ;-)
When I have time (and light enough) I publish some picts. I must say the watch is very comfortable, more gorgeous in the flesh than any image I've seen so far and it has the bunch of features I actually consider as mandatory (accuracy, overall quality (the hands and the marks !), lumibright, 20bar water resistance, screw-down crown, solid end links, links w/ screwed pins).


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

Got my SBGA001 - took some photos. It's really a tough decision. The fit and finish of the Seiko is much higher than the Citizen, though it's twice as expensive. It's going to be a tough choice... maybe I'll just keep both for the time being.


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

clarencek said:


> Got my SBGA001 - took some photos. It's really a tough decision. The fit and finish of the Seiko is much higher than the Citizen, though it's twice as expensive. It's going to be a tough choice... maybe I'll just keep both for the time being.


How can you resist the glide motion of the second hand on that Spring Drive?

But both is also good :-x


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## RPF (Feb 28, 2008)

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!

Great watches both. Quite a jump from your previous purchases eh? I do believe they're two of the finest examples of cutting edge horological advances money can buy. Citizen for its HEQ and case/bracelet technology, GS for its finishing, attention to detail and of course, Spring Drive.


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

I know... this is a terrible interest! I've gone from having a handful of inexpensive Casio (pathfinder) and citizen watches to now quite pricey watches. 

And as I'm looking around I saw a watch with this Tourbillon gizmo. Could never justify that... as I would never wear it. But still...


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

So I'm switching to my citizen to try it out for a few days... the Seiko is amazing. But does anyone have any recommendations for storing a spring drive watch? Should I just let it run out? should I pull out the crown to stop it?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## petew (Apr 6, 2006)

Let it run out. No harm at all in doing that.


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## RogerE (Dec 7, 2007)

clarencek said:


> Got my SBGA001 - took some photos. It's really a tough decision. The fit and finish of the Seiko is much higher than the Citizen, though it's twice as expensive. It's going to be a tough choice... maybe I'll just keep both for the time being.


You have to realize that the titanium on your Chronomaster has been finished to such a high level that it resembles the finest stainless. I own a Ti IWC and 2 Omega Ti watches, and none of the 3 has finishing close to the Chronomaster. The technology required to achieve this bowls me over. In my opinion this places the Chronomaster's finishing above ANY SS or Ti watch out there.


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

You're right - the finishing on the Citizen is super nice - esp for Ti. 

So after wearing it for a day... i have to say I LOVE THE WEIGHT! It's 88 g so it's amazingly comfortable. 

It's really a tough choice. I think I chose an odd color for the Citizen with the white face whereas the Seiko has a nice champagne color. 

Still I can't get over how comfortable this watch is. 

On accuracy - the Seiko for the week I wore it only ran about 1/2 a second slow which was amazing. 
I set the Citizen this morning and it's already 9 seconds slow! I'm going to give it a week and see if it catches up.


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## RogerE (Dec 7, 2007)

Yikes! Sorry to hear of the accuracy issues with the Chronomaster. I'll concede that GSs probably have the edge in accuracy, although I only own quartz models (no Spring Drives). One of my Chronomasters - coincidentally the same model you bought - was a little psychotic at first, but seemed to find its rhythm after a few weeks of 12 hour per day wearing. I kind of like that it 'needs' me, in some small way!


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

clarencek said:


> ... I set the Citizen this morning and it's already 9 seconds slow! I'm going to give it a week and see if it catches up.


Not good. Keep an eye on that.


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## bompi (Jul 21, 2007)

After one week it seems my GS is just ... right on time ! ;-)
[Method : first of all I force my Mac to synchronise with its time server then I check my watch against it. So far, so good.]


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## Chas (Feb 11, 2008)

After several months of gettin' up the nerve, I sent off my order to Katsu last weekend and my new Chronomaster arrived today. Got to admit it's even finer up close and personal than in any of the pictures I've seen. When I opened the box I noticed the watch was running and appeared to be exactly 13 hours ahead (Japan time vs. Washington, DC). I simply pulled out the crown to the first stop and dialed the hour hand back 13 hours which turned the day back as well, pushed in the crown and viola, I had the correct time. The watch never lost a second. That's my first experience with the resettable hour hand without losing the time. It was awesome. Just wanted to say thanks to Bruce and Alex and others who encouraged me to take a close look at The Citizen.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

clarencek said:


> You're right - the finishing on the Citizen is super nice - esp for Ti.
> 
> So after wearing it for a day... i have to say I LOVE THE WEIGHT! It's 88 g so it's amazingly comfortable.
> 
> ...


There's something seriously wrong if a Chronomaster is visibly fast or slow after a day. In fact I'd say there was something seriously wrong if you can see any error after a week or even two weeks. If you bought it from one of the Japanese internet vendors, I would suggest an e-mail and then return it pdq.


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

:-!


Chas said:


> After several months of gettin' up the nerve, I sent off my order to Katsu last weekend and my new Chronomaster arrived today.


Outstanding, Chas! Great pic, too. :-!


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## RogerE (Dec 7, 2007)

Beautiful watch! Isn't the titanium done well on those watches? Congratulations.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

Chas said:


> After several months of gettin' up the nerve, I sent off my order to Katsu last weekend and my new Chronomaster arrived today...


Congratulations!:-!


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## bompi (Jul 21, 2007)

Splendid ! This one is simply gorgeous.


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

After my last post I reset my citizen again to my computer clock. And now 2 days later it's exactly accurate to the second. 

The only thing I can think of is that maybe my computer was off for a while and synced with the internet which pushed it's clock 9 seconds fast. 

I've got a mac that syncs it's time with colorado. 
Anyway, I'm keeping my eye on it and if it deviates maybe I'll contact Mr. Seiya and send it back... but so far so good. 

The Grand Seiko spring drive is still a second slow.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

clarencek said:


> I'm currently contemplating getting:
> 
> *Citizen THE CITIZEN CTQ57-1021 Perpetual Calendar *http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=53_72_103&products_id=2103
> 
> ...


I would go for the Citizen based on looks. (and an incredibly accurate quartz movement)


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## Chas (Feb 11, 2008)

clarencek said:


> After my last post I reset my citizen again to my computer clock. And now 2 days later it's exactly accurate to the second.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is that maybe my computer was off for a while and synced with the internet which pushed it's clock 9 seconds fast.
> 
> ...


I've got a Mac as well and switched it to display seconds when you discussed your Mac the other day. My Mac is set to sync automatically to Apple Americas/U.S. (time..apple.com) I don't see any option to switch this to time.gov. In any case when I checked my Mac's synced time with time.gov today, it seemed to be about 1 second slow.

Funny how these things go. I have a Comcast digital time display on my cable box. You'd think this would be pretty accurate since it's the time used to sync TV programming. I've noticed that it's frequently a few seconds off.

I put time.gov in my Safari menu bar so I can bring it up quickly. That's what I use when I want to find the most accurate time to set a watch.


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## RogerE (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm glad to hear all is well in Citizenville, U.S.A.!


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## clarencek (Mar 25, 2008)

Just closing the loop on this thread. 

I've been wearing both my citizen chronomaster and my grand seiko spring drive (not at the same time). 

The citizen in my book is the winner. Here's why:

- Accuracy. The GS has lost two seconds. Which is within tolerance of 15 sec/month. The Citizen is still exactly accurate. 

- Comfort. The Citizen is 88g, the GS is 150g. Makes a big difference over the course of the day. The Citizen is also slimmer. I wear my watches a bit loose and the jostling is handled with more comfort by the citizen.

- Set and Forget. As a previous poster stated - when this month ends. I don't have to do anything with the citizen. 

So there you have it. Thanks to everyone who weighed in. Looks like all the recommendations for the chronomaster were spot-on. 
Thanks.


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

Glad to hear that it's doing well for you. :-!

Your method of determining which one you prefer is truly the optimal WIS approach, btw. Buy both and wear each for months. I like it! :-d


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Bruce Reding said:


> Glad to hear that it's doing well for you. :-!
> 
> Your method of determining which one you prefer is truly the optimal WIS approach, btw. Buy both and wear each for months. I like it! :-d


Yes... good data instead of just opinion! :-!


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