# Simple and effective Homemade Microphone Stand for Watch Timing Apps (Timegrapher)



## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

I know there are many other threads on the web about DYI mic stands for Timegraphers but I would like to share this one I made since it's simple and easy to build.

As a watch repair hobbyist, I needed a Timegrapher (or Watch Timing Machine) to measure the performance of the watch after I've serviced them. There are lots of cheap Timegraphers for sale on Amazon and eBay but, been an Electrical engineer, I've decided to build one myself.

I've started by installing some Timegrapher apps on my mobile device, tablet and computers. For the mobile and tablet I'm using Timegrapher app and for computer I'm using Watch-O-Scope.

These are great apps but, as you probably already know, they need a good microphone to work well. I've tried lots of different type of conventional microphones but they didn't work well because they pick up too much background noise. In order to work it needs absolute silence (even my breathing was interfering with the measurements), so I started looking for another type of microphone that would work better for picking up the watch's tik-tok sound but not the background noise.

I've started searching the web and I found out that contact microphones (AKA, piezo mics) are ideal microphones for this this application because they work by picking up mechanical contact vibrations instead of sound traveling through the air, like conventional mics.

On the web I've got some good ideas to build my own DYI microphone stand and what I'm showing below is not my original idea. I use somebody else's ideas and improved them and/or made them simpler to build.

I've based my mic stand on these two ideas from the web:
Building a Microphone Stand - Watch Timing System
https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/homemade-watch-timing-microphone-stand-timegrapher

But since I have zero, nada, of carpentry skills, neither I had the tools to make it, I've decided to go with the lazy approach of buying a watch case holder on Amazon.

For my first version of mic stand (yes, there is more than one version so read till the end) I used this case holder from Amazon









And for the piezo mic I used this 27mm disk piezo for acoustic guitar, also from Amazon

After days of brainstorming on how I should attach the piezo disk to the mic stand, I came up with an idea that was surprisingly simple and very effective; Basically, I glued a nail cut short (about ¾") to the piezo disk and attached it to the mic stand using rubber band. The nail head passes through the holes in the rubber band so it's in direct contact with the watch case








(BTW, I used Super Glue to glue the nail to the piezo disk)









The rubber band not only was a very simple way to attach the piezo disk to the mic frame but also added some benefits such as it suspends the mic assembly, helping dumping vibrations from the mic stand frame, and also, very important, the rubber band keeps pressuring the nail head (pin) against the watch case. The rubber band contours to the shape of the watch case thus the case can be of any shape/size that it will always have a good contact with the mic pin.

Here is how my homemade mic stand version 1.0 looked like after completed.









For the mic pre-amp, I used the circuit from PCTM_info which was very simple and works extremely well. Plus, it uses the power which is supplied (~3 Volts) by the external mic jack in mobile devices, tablet and computers so you don't need external batteries to power it. Just plug to the mic input and it works.









Another advantage is that this circuit is so simple that I could fit it inside of a 3.5mm microphone plug.









Note: This mic plug is for use in computers. To use it in a mobile, tablet of MAC laptop you will need this TRS to TRRS adapter









I started using my homemade mic stand with Timegrapher Apps (mobile/tablet) and Watch-O-Scope and it works really well. It definitely was picking up well the tik-tok vibration from the watch and it had much less interference from background noise so I could use it while talking or listening to music without a problem. But the mic was still picking up some ambient sounds like a clap or slamming door so I started looking for ways to improve it. That'd when version 2.0 came up.

*Mic Stand Version 2.0 *

First, I decided to change the metal made watch case holder with one made of plastic because plastic transfers less unwanted vibration from the surface compared to metal. And I end up using an old plastic watch case holder I had laying around, which is similar to this one on Amazon

Then I started looking at picture of some professional Timegraphers and I noticed the mic tubes were not big in diameter so they definitely didn't use a 27mm piezo mic, so I started wondering if a smaller diameter piezo mic would be better to use because it has less area to pick up air vibration, thus reducing picking up background noise. I ordered some 9mm piezo disk from Amazon to do some experiments and, _voilà_, it definitely worked better than the bigger piezo disk with much background interference.

Good thing the order came with 12 disks because I ended up destroying some during soldering and the install.

For this new version 2.0 microphone stand I basically built it the same way I built the old one: I glued a small nail (cut about ¼" long now) to the piezo disk and used the rubber band to attached it to the mic stand frame.









Because this piezo disk is much smaller it now stays inside the rubber band and it does not stick out of the stand like the 27mm disk did.









But, since a smaller 9mm piezo disk generates a lower signal than the 27mm, in the pre-amp circuit I replace the 1Meg ohm resistor with a 330Kohm one to give it a little more gain.

I've been using this mic stand for a few weeks now and I'm really happy with the performance. The 9mm piezo mic worked extremely well. Much much better than the 27mm one. It delivers a good tic-tok signal to the apps with much less interference from background noise.

The mic stand still picks up vibrations from the desk if you bang the desk surface or drop something on it, but a friend of mine who works at F.P. Journe was telling me that even his $8,000 dollars high end profession Timegrapher gets interference from desk surface vibrations, so I guess that's how it is. I found that if I place the stand on top a something soft like velvet or silicone mouse pad helps reducing picking up surface vibrations.

Here are some pictures of the final version of my homemade mic stand for Timegrapher. It is not as pretty as the other homemade ones made of wood but it works well and it was easy to build.




























Below are some screenshots of Watch-O-Scope. 
The Digital Filtering option in Watch-O-Scope was set to "None" and the signal is very good.















I hope you have enjoyed reading about my little project. My goal was to help people out there with additional ideas on to build your own homemade Timegrapher mic stand.

Please feel free to leave feedback, comments, suggestions, etc.

Sincerely,

Frank Lima


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## 24h (Nov 11, 2017)

Don't worry about what it looks like - I think version two actually looks great. This is mostly about functionality because it's difficult to get a perfect audio signal!
I would be very interested to hear a recording of what your microphone picks up. Can you record ~30 seconds into Audacity and upload the .WAV somewhere like Mega.nz?

Some other observations/suggestions:
- Maybe try using a non-magnetic "pin" like brass to prevent magnetizing your watches. I cut a brass rod and polished the end to also prevent scratching
- If you want to try getting an even cleaner audio signal, you can use software like Equalizer APO with the Peace equalizer to apply a high-pass (or custom) filter to the audio device in real time
- A thicker, shielded cable helped reduce some of the noise/buzzing (electromagnetic interference?)

Perhaps some of this is unnecessary. If all you need is a working timegrapher then I think you've already accomplished that, although making small improvements in the pursuit of perfection is always fun ;-)


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

Thanks for your feedback. I always welcome suggestions to improve my project.

I really like your suggestion to use brass pin instead of cheap still nail. I'll do that on my version 2.1. BTW, I did put scotch tape on the nail head to avoid scratching the watch cases, but it does not show in the pictures.

For the EQ, In my early experiments I was using a Behringer pre-amp/mixer where I could control low pass and high pass frequencies and, although it cleared the signal, it didn't seem make any difference when using the apps so I decided to use only the simple pre-amp circuit. I found that using the noise cancelation options in the apps did a better job clearing the signal than using the mixer. But it still works great with the noise cancelation turned off.

Regarding using thicker mic cable, it would make harder for the piezo disk to move back and forth with the rubber band. But I did use high quality cable from a broken professional lapel mic I had. I think a better approach would be to move the pre-amp circuit to the piezo disk instead of in the 3.5mm plug. But so far I'm not having any noise/buzzing nor electromagnetic interference. Perhaps I'll do that on my version 2.1.

I've uploaded the recording here:https://www.dropbox.com/s/nu78r1gbenf1o0s/Watch Tic-tok.wav?dl=0

Please let know what you think.

And please keep sending comments. I appreciate them.

Frank


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## Guido Velasquez (Mar 26, 2016)

Thank you very much for sharing your ideas with us. Congratulations on the results. We will listen to the recording in a few moments.


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## 24h (Nov 11, 2017)

fdlima said:


> Thanks for your feedback. I always welcome suggestions to improve my project.
> 
> I really like your suggestion to use brass pin instead of cheap still nail. I'll do that on my version 2.1. BTW, I did put scotch tape on the nail head to avoid scratching the watch cases, but it does not show in the pictures.
> 
> ...


It sounds great! I used a noise reduction filter on your audio in Audacity to (sort of) simulate what Equalizer APO would do.
It's very clean sounding and probably beats my microphone. I'll have to try building your version of the pre-amp to directly compare it with my modified phono pre-amp.


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## Guido Velasquez (Mar 26, 2016)

I just heard the recording. I find it very clean. Enough to achieve a reliable record in both Watch-O-Scope and TG. I perceive low volume, but both programs will work well with that signal. I also see that the record is only heard on the right channel. Once again, we don't need the L&R, left and right. It is only a matter that when I listen to my audio recordings I like to play the 2 channels.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

24h said:


> It sounds great! I used a noise reduction filter on your audio in Audacity to (sort of) simulate what Equalizer APO would do.
> It's very clean sounding and probably beats my microphone. I'll have to try building your version of the pre-amp to directly compare it with my modified phono pre-amp.


Just for curiosity. How much background noise you get with your watch stand? Since your 27mm piezo mic is inside the wood block and has a plate cover, it shouldn't be getting much background noise traveling through the air directly. in the case with my first stand, the 27mm piezo had nothing around it to block the sound vibrations traveling through the air and it was picking up a lot of background noise.

Frank


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

24h said:


> It sounds great! I used a noise reduction filter on your audio in Audacity to (sort of) simulate what Equalizer APO would do.
> It's very clean sounding and probably beats my microphone. I'll have to try building your version of the pre-amp to directly compare it with my modified phono pre-amp.


Just for curiosity. How much background noise you get with your watch stand? Since your 27mm piezo mic is inside the wood block and has a plate cover, it shouldn't be getting much background noise traveling through the air directly. in the case with my first stand, the 27mm piezo had nothing around it to block the sound vibrations traveling through the air and it was picking up a lot of background noise.

Frank


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## 24h (Nov 11, 2017)

It still picks up background noise from doors being shut, people walking in the house, etc. so you need to do your timing when there aren't many interruptions.
The biggest "annoyance" is the noise/static from the large amount of gain applied by the pre-amp.

Here are some recordings in a zip file.
https://mega.nz/#!EwBGmKDT!CAWhP3_hXXzBxVmV0hohf3OIztgSCqD4yJvV3Jw89GU

Notice in "old.wav" that there is some buzzing. It used to be even worse than that, but the high-pass filter and shielded cabled fixed it.
I've also included some examples from 12mm and 27mm piezos.
One watch has a 19800 bph movement and the "chrono" is 21600 bph. I think the best sounding file is the 12mm_chrono but it still has quite a bit of static.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

The 12mm piezo definitely sounds better. You could try with the 9mm piezo. It may improve it but I don't think it will make much big difference because it's only 3mm difference. 

I would definitely try it with the simple pre-amp circuit. And also try to mount it inside the wood block as close as possible to the piezo (I think you have space in there for it). One of the advantages of this simple circuit is that the gain is not high so it does not amplify noises as the high gain pre-amps do.

The me know how it goes.

BTW, another day I was timing a watch with my wife talking on the phone in the same room and it still worked OK.

Cheers.

Frank


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## Altamashsyed (Nov 20, 2017)

fdlima said:


> I know there are many other threads on the web about DYI mic stands for Timegraphers but I would like to share this one I made since it's simple and easy to build.
> 
> As a watch repair hobbyist, I needed a Timegrapher (or Watch Timing Machine) to measure the performance of the watch after I've serviced them. There are lots of cheap Timegraphers for sale on Amazon and eBay but, been an Electrical engineer, I've decided to build one myself....
> 
> ...


Wow, this is so interesting.. I am definitely going to try it out some weekend..

Thanks for the detailed explainations Frank..!!


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

Altamashsyed said:


> Wow, this is so interesting.. I am definitely going to try it out some weekend..
> 
> Thanks for the detailed explainations Frank..!!


You're welcome Altamashysed. Let me know it works for you.

Frank


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## Jameson Chin (Jun 23, 2020)

Hi Frank, I have been trying your method of doing up the preamp and connecting to the piezo disc but I haven’t been having much success. I’m using the TimeGrapher app on my iPhone. So after doing up the whole circuitry with the TRS plug, I had to connect it to a cable which basically splits the mic and speakers, which then connects to my lightning cable to my iPhone. My phone simply doesn’t recognize the mic nor registers it at all. Tried it on my laptop and it’s the same result. I also tried connecting it to a TS cable but to no avail. Any idea what I have been doing wrong and how I can correct it? Getting really frustrated now.


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## Jameson Chin (Jun 23, 2020)

fdlima said:


> I know there are many other threads on the web about DYI mic stands for Timegraphers but I would like to share this one I made since it's simple and easy to build.
> 
> As a watch repair hobbyist, I needed a Timegrapher (or Watch Timing Machine) to measure the performance of the watch after I've serviced them. There are lots of cheap Timegraphers for sale on Amazon and eBay but, been an Electrical engineer, I've decided to build one myself.
> 
> ...


Hi Frank, I have been trying your method of doing up the preamp and connecting to the piezo disc but I haven't been having much success. I'm using the TimeGrapher app on my iPhone. So after doing up the whole circuitry with the TRS plug, I had to connect it to a cable which basically splits the mic and speakers, which then connects to my lightning cable to my iPhone. My phone simply doesn't recognize the mic nor registers it at all. Tried it on my laptop and it's the same result. I also tried connecting it to a TS cable but to no avail. Any idea what I have been doing wrong and how I can correct it? Getting really frustrated now.

Regards,
Jameson Chin


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

Jameson Chin said:


> Hi Frank, I have been trying your method of doing up the preamp and connecting to the piezo disc but I haven't been having much success. I'm using the TimeGrapher app on my iPhone. So after doing up the whole circuitry with the TRS plug, I had to connect it to a cable which basically splits the mic and speakers, which then connects to my lightning cable to my iPhone. My phone simply doesn't recognize the mic nor registers it at all. Tried it on my laptop and it's the same result. I also tried connecting it to a TS cable but to no avail. Any idea what I have been doing wrong and how I can correct it? Getting really frustrated now.


Hi Jameson,

Sorry for the delay in responding to you but I haven't visited the forum for a while and, for whatever reason, I was not notified that I had a message.

Have you fixed the problem yet? if not, please send a detailed picture of your circuit, showing the transistor an resistor soldered to the plug.

Are you using TRS plug or TRSS plug? TRSS plugs are hard to find so I recommend using the TRS plug and buy an adapter on Amazon. Here's an example










What type of laptop do you have, MAC or Windows? MAC uses the same plug as the iPhone so if it's working for the iPhone it will nor work for MAC either.

Let me know hoe it goes. I'll promise I'll visit this forum every day to see new messages.

Regards,

Frank


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## mrz80 (Mar 6, 2020)

I'm starting to put the parts together to make one of these gizmos, and I had an "a-hah" experience. I've got a Panavise with a tilt-and-pivot base. I can stick a bit of 5/8" dowel to the underside of the watch-and-pickup holder , and mount it in the Panavise base. That'll hold the watch steady in all the various positions.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

mrz80 said:


> I'm starting to put the parts together to make one of these gizmos, and I had an "a-hah" experience. I've got a Panavise with a tilt-and-pivot base. I can stick a bit of 5/8" dowel to the underside of the watch-and-pickup holder , and mount it in the Panavise base. That'll hold the watch steady in all the various positions.


I Like your idea. I also have a Panavise base and I think I'll mount my mic stand on it too.

Let me know how yours turned out.

Frank


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## mystic nerd (Aug 10, 2013)

I'm interested - but I suspect my electrical skills aren't up to buildng the circuit.
However - I have an audio preamp for phono cartridges that might do the job.
It's designed for approx 5 mv input, with a variable gain control. It has a nominal 1 V ouput, to match conventional audio levels.
Do you know the approximate output of the piezo mics?
Are they anywhere near 5 mv, which the phono preamp would process nicely?


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## mystic nerd (Aug 10, 2013)

fdlima said:


> I Like your idea. I also have a Panavise base and I think I'll mount my mic stand on it too.
> 
> Let me know how yours turned out.
> 
> Frank


I'm going to build this - the 9 mm piezo pickup with amp and jack for iPhone.

What watt rating and % tolerance should I have for the 330K ohm resistor?
Is 1/8W enough?

Thanks for posting your thread!


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## gajimicu (Jan 11, 2021)

Posting here for the first time after reading this forum for a month or so, freshly into vintage seiko watches.

Just to say that I built a simplified version of this:

No nail on the piezo, couldn't get this thing to stay in place... So I place the piezo directly against the crown of the watch just held by the pressure from the rubber band.
Used a TRRS plug that I soldered to directly based on the diagram you are showing in your first post and it works great without the need for an adapter.
My version uses a 12mm piezo cause that's all I could find and a 470K Ohms resistor.

It works great, but I get a super loud signal. 

So on my mac I am able to turn the input level down to the absolute minimum and I get a very clean signal with barely any noise.
On my iphone though, since there is no way to lower the input level I just a get a crazy loud signal and a copious amount of static, which I'm able to tell by recording the input with the integrated "voice memos" app. But basically the Timegrapher app can't work because even with the sensitivity turned all the way down it's still too high.

So I fiddled around with adding more or less resistance without success. I should have tried to add maybe a resistor to ground from the hot signal but after realized the signal was great on the computer I gave up and went back to the original 470K.

I wanted to thank you for this tutorial which wasn't hard to do, apart from the fact that I read a kinda generic transistor wiring diagram online which gave me incorrect pins labels... But the second attempt worked great when I looked up the actual reference of the transistor.

I ended up using the open source timegrapher application that has been developped by people on this forum here:





Tg timegrapher - download page


Tg is an open source timegrapher. The tg program is used to assess the health of mechanical watch movements, and to regulate mechanical watches.



tg.ciovil.li




It was a bit of a process to get it installed on Mac but it worked and I have to say that although very simple it is a great application, is free and cross platform, so it's a winner 

Thanks Frank for this great tutorial and easy build, it does the job perfectly for someone who doesn't have much time or energy to put into some of the more complicated builds out there.


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## bklake (Oct 12, 2014)

I built one too. I am an electronics idiot but smart enough to download spec sheets and pin outs for stuff. I measured and mapped it out 10 times before I plugged in the soldering iron. In all my info gathering I learned that Apple swaps the Mic and Ground on a TRRS plug. Apple often will not turn on the Mic unless speakers are connected also. I found both to be true. I couldn't get TG to work reliably on my Macbook but it works well on my Win10PC. I made two of these with different Mic wiring. I could here the ticking very clearly on the Mac thanks to the headphones, just couldn't get TG to run without crashing. 

Fun stuff and I need a better soldering iron.


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## mystic nerd (Aug 10, 2013)

I'm using the Watch Tuner Timegrapher app for iPhone.
I solved the mic noise problem by putting the standard iPhone earbuds and the watch inside a small foam lined equipment case. Case cost, about $13 at Harbor Freight.
I set the sensitivity in the app to 16/12 instead of the default 12/16.
I was able to get good data even with my wife typing in the same room, and while talking with her.
No rubber band or clamp needed, closing the case gives good contact of mic on the back of watch case and an excellent sound signal.
WUS thread that I posted.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

mystic nerd said:


> Do you know the approximate output of the piezo mics?


Hi, 
Sorry for the delay in my response but I've been disconnected from this forum for a while forcing on another work.

I measured my 27mm piezo on the scope. The voltage output was 1 to 10 volts depending upon the velocity of the vibration or shock. But for this application the output will be in the mVolts. Be careful not to drop it because piezo can put out high voltages when applied high the pressure and this can damage the pre-amp input.

A phono pre-amp should work. just be careful because the frequency response os a phone preamp is not flat it uses the RIAA equalization. It boots the low frequencies and it may pick more noise in lower frequencies, while attenuating high frequencies where the tik Tok is.









RIAA equalization - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Regards,

Fdlima


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

mystic nerd said:


> What watt rating and % tolerance should I have for the 330K ohm resistor?
> Is 1/8W enough?


Hi, 
Sorry for the delay in my response but I've been disconnected from this forum for a while forcing on another work.

1/8w is fine. There is almost not current in this circuit so the resistor can be as small as you can find. 
Tolerance should be 10% or lower

Regards,

Fdlima


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## Ard (Jul 21, 2014)

I want to say that it is so refreshing to find this thread Frank. I have posted hundreds of times with how to advice for people but the majority only want to buy watches then hope for the best. You are very ingenious.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

gajimicu said:


> Posting here for the first time after reading this forum for a month or so, freshly into vintage seiko watches.
> 
> My version uses a 12mm piezo cause that's all I could find and a 470K Ohms resistor.
> 
> Thanks Frank for this great tutorial and easy build, it does the job perfectly for someone who doesn't have much time or energy to put into some of the more complicated builds out there.


Hi Gajimicu ,

Thanks for your message. I'm glad my post helped you and the others. I enjoy sharing my experience with other people. And sorry for my late my response but I've been disconnected from this forum for a while focusing on another work.

I'm glad to hear you were able to simplify even more. The simpler, the better. Please send us pictures so we can see how it looks like.

Regarding the output of piezo been super loud, I think it's because you're using a bigger size piezo than mine, which is fine, but in this case you should use a higher value resistor such 1M or higher to lower the gain in the pre-amp. You may have to try a few values until you get the best results.

The Iphone app works "OK" but not as good as the computer app where you have input control and noise reduction. The problem, as you found out, it is because the Iphone input is very sensitive and pick up a lot of noise. If you really want to use the Iphone app, try using a smaller piezo size with a higher value resistor. The problem I have with the phone app is that the lines show a lot of noise which makes them unuseable.










If you like vintage Seiko watches, check out a few videos I've posted 4 years ago restoring my late father's Seiko 5. I was pretty amateur at that time and didn't have the correct tools but got the job done. I did the video to show to my mom so it's in Portuguese. just mute the audio if it gets amoying.














Take care.

Fdlima


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## dfwcowboy (Jan 22, 2017)

If I didn't already have a decent timegrapher I'd have to try building one of these. Very interesting read.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

bklake said:


> In all my info gathering I learned that Apple swaps the Mic and Ground on a TRRS plug. Apple often will not turn on the Mic unless speakers are connected also.


Hi Bklake. Thanks for your comments.

You're correct. Apple does swap Mic and Ground on a TRRS plug, and it also needs do detect some load to turn on the external mic input so, if you're building your on TRSS cable, you will need to add a 10K resistor from Mic to ground, otherwise Apple will not show the option for external mic.

Thanks for point that out. I think I forgot to mention in my original post the need to add a load in the plug to turn on the external mic input.

Take care.

Fdlima


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

mystic nerd said:


> I solved the mic noise problem by putting the standard iPhone earbuds and the watch inside a small foam lined equipment case. Case cost, about $13 at Harbor Freight.
> I set the sensitivity in the app to 16/12 instead of the default 12/16.
> I was able to get good data even with my wife typing in the same room, and while talking with her.
> No rubber band or clamp needed, closing the case gives good contact of mic on the back of watch case and an excellent sound signal.


Hi 
That's very interesting. Before I building my watch mic stand I tried many different options use regular mic in isolated boxes but I could get them to work satisfactory. they always picked up external background noise. Perhaps I should have tried a box like this one 

If you want to improve it even more, try using piezo mic in your box because piezo mics do not pick up sounds traveling through air, like voices, they pick mechanical vibrations from objects they are in contact.

Good job 

Fdlima


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

Ard said:


> I want to say that it is so refreshing to find this thread Frank. I have posted hundreds of times with how to advice for people but the majority only want to buy watches then hope for the best. You are very ingenious.


Thank you. I appreciate it.

Frank


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

dfwcowboy said:


> If I didn't already have a decent timegrapher I'd have to try building one of these. Very interesting read.


Hi Dfwcowboy,

I've hear even decent timegraphers can get interference from loud noises and vibrations, like something falling on workbench. Is it true?

Thanks,

Frank


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## dfwcowboy (Jan 22, 2017)

fdlima said:


> Hi Dfwcowboy,
> 
> I've hear even decent timegraphers can get interference from loud noises and vibrations, like something falling on workbench. Is it true?
> 
> ...


It is true, but vibrations are going to affect the movement itself so pretty much unavoidable other than setting up in a relatively vibration free area. As far as loud noises go I suspect pretty much any timegrapher is going to be affected by those. I wouldn't try to test a watch if loud noises are happening nearby.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

dfwcowboy said:


> It is true, but vibrations are going to affect the movement itself so pretty much unavoidable other than setting up in a relatively vibration free area. As far as loud noises go I suspect pretty much any timegrapher is going to be affected by those. I wouldn't try to test a watch if loud noises are happening nearby.


Thank you


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## Kugellager (Jun 11, 2021)

I realize this is an older thread but keeping like info together is helpful to all of us.

Anyway, Here's my take on the using Watch Tuner Timegrapher app and my setup I have found to be effective.

I think the key to making a DIY version of a timegrapher is isolation/dampening of the test stand and coupling of the microphone to the sound source. I have taken a cheapie USB mike from an old PS2 headset and attached it to a basic plastic watch holder. This allows for the movement beat sound to be coupled best to the microphone as the watch is held firmly in the holder which couples the movement sound to the mic and the mic itself makes contact with the body of the watch.

The physics of it is that sound moves through solids better(faster) than air due to density and therefore coupling solid surface to solid surface is key to get the most out of your mic. I have not taken a $200 dollar timegrapher apart but I am willing to bet that the clamp used to hold the watch in place is directly coupled to the mic or transducer in some fashion.

For my original setup I found an excellent, but impractical method to dampen environmental noise from the test stand. This works very well, but is impractical on the bench. …you can even have a conversation right next to it w/o noise issues.









I then stumbled upon this thread and am now using the insulated box method as suggested above.









I have attached the microphone to the stand using hot glue for the time being but will secure it eventually with a hard-set epoxy for better strength and sound coupling the mic.









Here is a vintage Poljot on the stand ready for the box to be closed and tested.









Once the lid is tightly closed, I set the box on additional piece of foam which further isolates the stand from house noise that would otherwise be transmitted through the granite counter top. When initially testing, my daughter came clomping through the kitchen and very little noise was seen on the graph. Before this, there was a lot more noise detected but it was not unuseable. None of it is as good as the giant stuffed bear but is infinitely more practical. With this setup, if I am being relatively quiet, the noise environment is comparable to a $200 timegraphers I have seen demonstrated on YouTube videos.









Final image of the setup showing some noise on the screen. I was purposely having my daughter clomp around noisily at the time to see what would happen. Was still very useable. I had no issues using this with my 'quietest' watch. I of course adjust the sensitivity up or down as needed. I'm sure this setup is not as good as a multi $1000K professional setup; but it seems that you can achieve results similar to consumer timegraphers. Your MMV.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

Kugellager said:


> I realize this is an older thread but keeping like info together is helpful to all of us.
> Anyway, Here's my take on the using Watch Tuner Timegrapher app and my setup I have found to be effective.


Thanks for sharing this. I like your approach for sound isolation using a box and foam. Too bad the bear option is not practical because it would make a cute Timegrapher . 🧸😄


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## Kugellager (Jun 11, 2021)

The noise levels were amazingly quiet with the giant bear. However, a soft feather pillow over the box works wonders if your environment is noisy and is more test bench friendly too. 😁


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## Kugellager (Jun 11, 2021)

So I made some minor modifications to the setup. I added a new and slightly better mic from an old computer mic I had as well as replaced the headphone speaker that came in the SOCOM headset with a resistor. The resistor (A) is 10 ohms to provide a similar load as the headset speaker so that the USB powered DAC board works properly. The mic connects to point (B) and works as a direct replacement.

The new mic seems to be more sensative to lower frequencies and picks up some house noise in that range. Because of this, I found that it works best when super gain is enabled and the sensitivity is reduced a few points. But I only need to enable super gain on my quieter watches. My noisy thin-cased vintage watches use the default gain setting.

Top of DAC board.









Underside of DAC board.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

Kugellager said:


> So I made some minor modifications to the setup.


Thank you for sharing your upgraded version.
Have you experiemented using piezo mic instead of regular mics? Since piezo mics are designed to capture mechanical vibrations instead of sounds traveling thru air (which are mostly where the background noise comes from), it is much less sensitive to background noise.
In my case I found that I didn't have to worry much about insulating background noise after I switched to piezo mic. I could speak freely about 30 cm from the mic and it did not pick up the sound. I just had to be careful with vibrations on the desk where the Timegrapher was on, but that was easily to resolved with a small pillow underneath the Timegrapher.
If you decide to use piezo mic, make sure it has a good mechanical contact with the watch. in my case is used rubber band to press the piezo mic against the watch (see picture in page 1).

Also, try using the PC app instead of iPhone app. I used Watch-O-Scope (About Watch-O-Scope - Watch Timing System). The iPhone app works "OK" but not as good as the computer app where you have input level control, multiple noise reduction modes and trigger points select. but the part a like the most is that you can see the pulses (and the background noise) on the screen and then you can select the trigger point above the noise level.

Piezo mic.
Amazon.com: uxcell 10 Pcs Piezo Discs 10mm Acoustic Pickup Transducer Element Trigger Buzzer CBG Guitar : Musical Instruments


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## DnyGdy (7 mo ago)

I'm new in the watchmaker world and I tried to built fdlima mic to use in my little restoration projects but I got nothing than noise. I use a 330k + 500k trimpot (15 turns) to control the amplification gain. To test the mic I plugged the mic into a Fiio A1 amp and in my earphones but just get noise and no watch sounds. I'm trying to figure out what is the problem with my built setup. Can you give some help with it ? Thanks


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

DnyGdy said:


> I'm new in the watchmaker world and I tried to built fdlima mic to use in my little restoration projects but I got nothing than noise.


Hi Dny,
(Sorry for the delay but I don't check this forum very often)

where you able to fix the problem? If not. please send me pictures and diagram of your mic amp so I can try to figure out what is wrong.

Fdlima
PS. Você é brasileiro? Eu também sou.


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## Ron Gross (1 mo ago)

mystic nerd said:


> I'm using the Watch Tuner Timegrapher app for iPhone.
> I solved the mic noise problem by putting the standard iPhone earbuds and the watch inside a small foam lined equipment case. Case cost, about $13 at Harbor Freight.
> I set the sensitivity in the app to 16/12 instead of the default 12/16.
> I was able to get good data even with my wife typing in the same room, and while talking with her.
> ...


New to time graphing and tried various ideas like a stereo (PC mic input) mic in a cup, single condenser (PC), said single condenser heat shrink tubed to a stethoscope pickup tube and place in many different positions...all with little luck in getting anything to work on a PC using WatchOScope. After reading threads here I decided to try a phone app and downloaded a couple. Timegrapher for Android gave me lousy readings using the internal mic, and an external Samsung mic did not work any better...THEN I tried an old pair of earbuds from a previous phone which I cannot remember, with inline mic and used a rubber band to secure the mic to the watch crystal over a small piece of 2x4 and BANG! I started getting correct results! Very similar to your setup, I am surprised by how well it actually worked for a condenser mic setup that I nearly abandoned for the piezo setup which I did not have laying around anyway. Thanks for the confirmation. I'll post a photo when I get up to 5 posts.


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## fdlima (Feb 3, 2020)

Ron Gross said:


> I'll post a photo when I get up to 5 posts.


Welcome to the forum.

keep posting until you reach 5 posts so we can see your photos.

Take care


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