# Chronograph Movements-- Which Ones to Get or Avoid, and Why?



## Heckflosse (Mar 1, 2018)

In my last post, I asked how to avoid fake watches, and I got so much great information, so I decided to start another thread for another question. In doing so, I hope other people will benefit from the advice in the future as well. 

I'm quite dumb when it comes to the watch world, even though I've done some researches on Google. I know there are many different chronograph movements, but I don't know what makes a specific movement good, or average (if not bad). Is it accuracy? Or is it durability? I guess the availability of parts also plays a role here? Or there are more to movements that I am still missing?

When I googled, I found the following movement makers are the most popular (or most seen online): 1. Landeron 2. Valjoux 3. Venus 4. Angelus 

Each maker produced different models e.g., Landeron 39, Valjoux 188, and etc. It seems like Landeron would be more of an average movement maker because it used to mass produce, and on the other hand, Valjoux and Venus were of better quality. But I've seen people giving thumbs up to Landeron movements as well. So, I'm quite puzzled...

Anyway, is there a movement that is a no-no to a beginner like me? Or is there a great movement for the entry to mid tier level buyer like me?

Again, any responses will be greatly appreciated!


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

You forgot lemania - the movement in Omega, Longines etc.

This question has been answered many times - there is quite a bit of snobbery involved in the community.

I'll have a bash though - following is a brain dump. Which may or may not include errors.

1. Nothing wrong with a cam switched Landeron, very common, but robust, easy to service and work just fine - you will never have a parts issue and they are the most economical 'proper' chronograph movement to buy as a collector. The earlier column wheel movements can be very nice indeed, but parts are an issue. Landeron made the first cam switched chronograph in 1937 - the 47.

2. Valjoux, the 72, 23 are premium column wheel movements - used by top end makers. They are lovely to work on, but finding parts while still possible will cost you deeply. The cam switched movements started with the 7730 (rebadged Venus 188) and quickly changed to the ubiquitous 7733 and 7734 family. These are super robust, easy to service modern designs - but prices have gone stupid and parts are starting to be an issue - supplies are still good just getting pricey. The watches themselves have gone up a lot over the last few years. The Val 92 is a swivelling pinion chronograph - with column wheel, its fine.

3. Venus, was taken over by Valjoux. The 188 cam switched movement became the 7733 eventually. The earlier column wheel 150/170 family were used by makers such as Brietling and are reasonable to work on. Parts are semi difficult. The chinese made a copy of the 175 - the Seagull ST19. The other famous one is the Venus 170 with swivelling pinion, its a bit older, a bit clunky and not as nice to service. These are still reasonable to buy, are cool because they are up-down chronos and used to be cheap. I have seen these getting more expensive. 

4. Angelus - Premium movement - no personal experience, I don't own one and have never serviced one. I hear the parts situation is terrible. They are very beautiful.

Things you didn't ask about

5. Lemania. Made wonderful chronos, based on the 27CH family you see these in makers like Longines and Omega. Most famous is the Speedmaster 321 w/column wheel. This was modified to be a cam switched movement and a cheaper family (1270) was also produced. I have worked on these (321 and 1270) and they are enjoyable. Parts supply is variable. They are getting pricey, but Tissot versions are still surprisingly affordable.

6. Pierce. Long vilified, an incredibly advanced movement for the time, with a vertical clutch - predating modern chrono design. I don't have an issue servicing these and parts are fairly available from cheap donor movements. The best thing about pierce is that the movement was in-house - a truly independent company. I think these should be expensive and collectable, but they're not there yet. They also did a cool thing with waterproof cases and the dials are wonderful. You do run a risk of not being able to find a willing watchmaker, but frankly that's stupid imo. If you hang around long enough on this forum, I'll get around to posting the restoration of one.

7. Excelsior Park. Premium movement - no personal experience, I don't own one and have never serviced one. I hear the parts situation is terrible. They are very beautiful.

I am sure I have forgotten some stuff, but this covers roughly the period from the late 30s - 70s.

No brainers: 

If you have $ - buy a Landeron 48 - 248
If you have $$ - buy a Valjoux 7733/34, Venus 188, Lemania 1270.
If you have $$$ - buy a Valjoux 23.
If you have $$$$ - buy a Valjoux 72, Lemania 27CH.
If you have $$$$$+ - buy an Omega 321, or the Rolex version of the Valjoux 72

If you feel like being interesting then:

If you have $$ - buy a Pierce, Venus 170
If you have $$$ - buy a Venus 175/178
If you have $$$$ - Lemania 15, EP or Angelus? Actually these are the only ones I don't own from these lists - so I'm guessing here.

Things to avoid? 

Well how much work do you want to do finding parts and how much money are you spending, its all relative. Apart from the pin lever fake chronostops, I don't think there really is a terrible movement from this period. I love them all.

Things I didn't mention - Seiko and the first (arguable) auto - caliber 11. Someone else who know about these can say stuff, I am ignorant of them.

Kris.


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## arcadelt (Apr 25, 2010)

Minerva?


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## morningtundra (May 6, 2016)

trim said:


> You forgot lemania - the movement in Omega, Longines
> I'll have a bash though - following is a brain dump. Which may or may not include errors.
> 
> Kris.


Outstanding post for a brain dump! Thank you

Sent from my cracked, broken hand wound phone. IG @morning_tundra


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## sinner777 (Jan 13, 2013)

Cal.11 needs a really really good watchmaker to hassle with it. It is DD module stacked on Buren microtor movement. The movement itself is great..while it runs. If something breaks (and usually it is rotor axis) it is pretty much PITA to fix.


as it comes to Seiko movements, the whole 6138/6139 family and its flyback siblings is the cheapest way to get the vintage automatic movement. The problem is :

- frankens. Frankens all over the place. If you find one with all original parts, get it. Prices have gone all over the place. 

- these watches were often worn to the bone. they were made in large quantities and (atleast over here) worn as everyday watches. My neighbour wears his 6139 since he bough it 40 years ago. chrono is always on, I dont think he ver serviced it. But he wears it every day. 

-they lack running second. 

other than that, they are really durable and actually au pair with any swiss made chronos.


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

Martel also made high-quality column-wheel chronograph movements, notably for Zenith and Universal Geneve.


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## kazrich (Aug 14, 2013)

Informative post trim !
Please advise
1. if Val 23 is superior to Val 92 ( as used in first execution Heuer Autavia ) ?
2. Why is Rolex Val 72 considered better than other watch companies Val 72 ?

Thanks


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

kazrich said:


> Informative post trim !
> Please advise
> 1. if Val 23 is superior to Val 92 ( as used in first execution Heuer Autavia ) ?
> 2. Why is Rolex Val 72 considered better than other watch companies Val 72 ?
> ...


The 23 was the two subcounters version of the valjoux 72. Better than the 92 hardly. When I see the price that commands an Andretti Autavia with a valjoux 92, I wouldn't call it an inferior movement.
The valjoux 72 reworked by Rolex had a microstella balance wheel as well as specific accuracy regulator that was not found in any other version of the valjoux 72 allowing better accuracy over the long run.


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

trim said:


> You forgot lemania - the movement in Omega, Longines etc.
> 
> This question has been answered many times - there is quite a bit of snobbery involved in the community.
> 
> ...


You forgot to mention the following calibers:
1)Venus 150,175,178 which were mostly found in Breitling chronographs from the 30's till the early 70's but they were great movements in the aspects of robustness, quality and durability. Spare parts availability is ok if you go through cousinsuk.com or through kd89.fr and through specific ebay spare parts retailers. $$$$ if you want a chronograph in perfect shape
2)Longines 30ch and 13zn, the two most legendary handwound inhouse chronos ever made by Longines which were judged equal if not superior to Patek and Vacheron. Spare parts availability is ok if you go through cousinsuk.com and through specific ebay spare parts retailers.$$$$$ for the 13ZN and $$$$ for the 30CH if you want something in perfect shape, and always pay attention to the dial condition
3)Universal cal 281-287 including the cal 481 are top of the game calibers. Spare parts are very difficult to find. So if you plan to buy a space compax or dato compax, prepare yourself to spend big $$$$$
4)Zenith 146 and 156, two very refined and well made calibers from them matching with the top quality valjoux and lemania movements.Spare parts availability is ok if you go through cousinsuk.com and through specific ebay spare parts retailers. $$$$ for a nice chrono in great condition
5)Mido 1300 a very rare and very seldomly seen movement based itself on the top of the end valjoux VZHC, spare parts are difficult if alsmot impossible to find. Greatly collectible but $$$$$
6)Junghans 88 one of the nicest german made column wheel chrono calibers every bit equal to the Valjoux 23 and the Longines 30ch, rare but very high quality too. Spare parts are not easy to find. Found in the desirable fighter pilot chrono model, $$$$
7)Hanhart cal 41/51 and 42/52 another great german handwound column wheel movement even though as not as pretty the junghans 88, very robust and reliable.Hanhart WWII luftwaffe chronographs are getting expensive and spare parts for these calibers are scarce, so big $$$$ for a chrono in great condition
8)Urofa59 a great competitor of the Junghans 88, rare nowadays but greatly finished too, spare parts are very difficult too find and a nice chrono with this movement is pricy $$$$
9)Movado M95 considered as one of Movado finest piece of engineering done with the help of Frederic Piguet.Beautiful conception and nice finish. Spare parts are not easy to find and big $$$$ for a nice chrono in great condition
10)Valjoux VZHC and 88, the top of the game from valjoux regarding finish and quality big $$$$$
11)Angelus 250-252 are high end quality movements and were based of the valjoux 69 but wit hseveral modifications. Spare parts availability is difficult and nice chronos are $$$$
12)Lemania cam operated chrono movements including the 1280,1873,1340,5012,5100 and 5200 which are already established as legends and great quality movements far above valjoux
To avoid for me would be anything from landeron and the valjoux 7733,7734,7736,7740,7750,7760,7765 and the venus 188 because they are cheaply made and aren't really collectible


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

georges zaslavsky said:


> 3)Universal cal 281-287
> 4)Zenith 146 and 156


These movements are the same family, made by Martel, as I mentioned above.



georges zaslavsky said:


> 2)Longines 30ch and 13zn,
> 9)Movado M95


Right! I forgot about these.


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## morningtundra (May 6, 2016)

georges zaslavsky said:


> To avoid for me would be anything from landeron and the valjoux 7733,7734,7736,7740,7750,7760,7765 and the venus 188 because they are cheaply made and aren't really collectible


A wonderfully well informed and detailed post! Thank you...

But not sure I agree the VJ77xx should be avoided. They can be found in some cool and very collectible watches and can be very highly finished in some examples. Lots of inexpensive spares, robust and lots of watchmakers willing to work on them.

Sent from my cracked, broken hand wound phone. IG @morning_tundra


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## Dan S (Jan 8, 2012)

morningtundra said:


> But not sure I agree the VJ77xx should be avoided. They can be found in some cool and very collectible watches and can be very highly finished in some examples. Lots of inexpensive spares, robust and lots of watchmakers willing to work on them.


They may not be the most sophisticated movements, but at this point I think it's fair to say that many watches with Valjoux 773x-series movements have become highly collectible and are selling for substantial (and sometime astronomical) prices. The most notable example I can think of is the Heuer Carrera ref 7753, but there are others as well.


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

badbackdan said:


> They may not be the most sophisticated movements, but at this point I think it's fair to say that many watches with Valjoux 773x-series movements have become highly collectible and are selling for substantial (and sometime astronomical) prices. The most notable example I can think of is the Heuer Carrera ref 7753, but there are others as well.


the valjoux 7733 was found in the Autavia Gilles Villeneuve ref 73663 and the Heuer Skipper ref 73463 both way above 8000$


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## morningtundra (May 6, 2016)

badbackdan said:


> They may not be the most sophisticated movements, but at this point I think it's fair to say that many watches with Valjoux 773x-series movements have become highly collectible and are selling for substantial (and sometime astronomical) prices. The most notable example I can think of is the Heuer Carrera ref 7753, but there are others as well.


Further down the price curve is a personal favorite- the venerable Tudor Big Block with the 7750. The first automatic chronograph designed using a computer by Edmond Capt (the Blancpain and Lemania guy)... or so legend has it.

Sent from my cracked, broken hand wound phone. IG @morning_tundra


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Depending on how vintage you want to go - and depending on how $$$ you are willing to spend (they are getting more expensive all the time) - you could get a Zenith "El Primero", the *real* first automatic chronograph the watch world ever saw. One major advantage: parts replacement is absolutely no feasibility issue (movement is still in production after all those years). One disadvantage: parts replacement could be a $$$ issue.....

If you are considering the Seiko 6139, you may as well consider a Citizen 8100 family chronograph: almost the same age, also made in their Lord-knows-how-manys and equally robust.

Hartmut Richter


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Depending on how vintage you want to go - and depending on how $$$ you are willing to spend (they are getting more expensive all the time) - you could get a Zenith "El Primero", the *real* first automatic chronograph the watch world ever saw. One major advantage: parts replacement is absolutely no feasibility issue (movement is still in production after all those years). One disadvantage: parts replacement could be a $$$ issue.....
> 
> If you are considering the Seiko 6139, you may as well consider a Citizen 8100 family chronograph: almost the same age, also made in their Lord-knows-how-manys and equally robust.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Agreed on the Zenith but you need someone who is very good at servicing because not many independant watchmakers know how to service it. The seiko 6139 and the citizen 8100 are two steps below compared to the El Primero regarding collectibility and quality


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

morningtundra said:


> A wonderfully well informed and detailed post! Thank you...
> 
> But not sure I agree the VJ77xx should be avoided. They can be found in some cool and very collectible watches and can be very highly finished in some examples. Lots of inexpensive spares, robust and lots of watchmakers willing to work on them.
> 
> Sent from my cracked, broken hand wound phone. IG @morning_tundra


No, it should be avoided because the whole construction of the 7733 is very simple, crude and far less qualitative than its main rival the lemania 1873 that it still in production. The lemania 1873 was a superior product because it had better engineering, better accuacy and better reliability and it is already 50 years in production. The 7733,7734,7736 and 7740 are not produced anymore but I don't see myself paying even 2000$ for valjoux 7733 powered chrono, no matter how nice it is. Even the 7765, the successor the 7733 is an ugly and poorly finished movement that doesn't compare in quality with the lemania 1873 and never will.Valjoux has its golden years with the column wheel handwound chrono movements, after 1974 the valjoux glory years were permanently gone.


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Yet the reality of the market disagrees, and not all watches were intended to be nor should have been top end. Nothing wrong with 'everyman' watches, they represent their era and market niche. I agree though, for $2000 I would be looking for something better - but for a cheap collectable chronograph with a bulletproof movement, they certainly scratch and itch for me. 

Really I don't understand your personal crusade against them, but each to his own.


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## Tony C. (Dec 9, 2006)

georges zaslavsky said:


> the valjoux 7733 was found in the Autavia Gilles Villeneuve ref 73663 and the Heuer Skipper ref 73463 both way above 8000$


While that is interesting to a point, there is often little connection between the actual quality of the movement and value of watches these days, as the bubble has been catalyzed primarily by fashion. Longines is an exception in the chronograph category, but the point stands, as few who pay big money are particularly concerned about relative movement quality.


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

trim said:


> Yet the reality of the market disagrees, and not all watches were intended to be nor should have been top end. Nothing wrong with 'everyman' watches, they represent their era and market niche. I agree though, for $2000 I would be looking for something better - but for a cheap collectable chronograph with a bulletproof movement, they certainly scratch and itch for me.
> 
> Really I don't understand your personal crusade against them, but each to his own.


Some epray sellers have been selling those valjoux7733 at the price of what costs a nice valjoux72 and the valjoux7733 was and is at best an entry level or mid range.Quality wise, they are nothing stellar and their conception and construction is very poor and crude.If you hunt well and long enough, you can find some nice things which I did like this election oversized chrono with a nice valjoux 22priced for less than 800$


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

Tony C. said:


> While that is interesting to a point, there is often little connection between the actual quality of the movement and value of watches these days, as the bubble has been catalyzed primarily by fashion. Longines is an exception in the chronograph category, but the point stands, as few who pay big money are particularly concerned about relative movement quality.


Very true but you have to be a connoisseur to know what are the good movements, personally I always focus on quality rather than buying a big brand with a middle of the range movement. This hobby is too expensive to buy middle of the range watches or watch from big brands with a middle of the range movement.


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## demonfinder (Oct 11, 2014)

I managed to bag a nice Valjoux 22 a year or so ago for around £400 in good fully working and in a stainless steel case.
I think the 22 was like the grand daddy of the now pricey 72`s.
Very long production run so hopefully more potential donor movements or spares available for those looking for a vintage chrono on a budget?
nice size calibre too -mine is in a 38mm case.

Many of the early ones had no anti-shock I gather (like mine) so you may have to treat them a bit more carefully.
I believe they were available with either a 30 min or 45 min sub dial
I`ve no idea if they are easy to service or not .
A column wheel movement too which some collectors see as a plus point.
I`m no expert on chrono movements but I get the impression from backgroung reading they were a pretty sound calibre.
Good luck whichever you choose to go for Heckflosse.


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

demonfinder said:


> I managed to bag a nice Valjoux 22 a year or so ago for around £400 in good fully working and in a stainless steel case.
> I think the 22 was like the grand daddy of the now pricey 72`s.
> Very long production run so hopefully more potential donor movements or spares available for those looking for a vintage chrono on a budget?
> nice size calibre too -mine is in a 38mm case.
> ...


Nice Roamer, my election is a 40.5mm case so very very rare for the era. The valjoux 22 is a high end movement because it was found on the early Breguet type XX and the early Mathey Tissot Type XX which where fitted with the cal 222 the fly back version of the valjoux 22 and such watches costs over 15000$ and the fact that Eterna used that movement a lot in its chronographs is a sign of quality. The valjoux 22 ranks up on par and on equality with the valjoux 72 even tough it is less popular. Spare parts for the valjoux 22 can be found and it is a great movement for the money.


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

arcadelt said:


> Minerva?


Before the 50's Minerva used to manufacture the calibres 20 and 13-20, they were fine but not as stellar or good as their swiss or german counterparts because in the late 50's early 60's has been mostly the valjoux 72 in their chronographs.


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

I like mine



















Which goes in this










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Yes these are all very nice watches, and I have examples of these calibres (well not a 22) in my collection too. GV - your $800 was an excellent deal, as was DF's 22 (of which I am deeply envious), but these are atypical successes.

It doesn't change the fact that there are a wide range of collectable chronographs and chronograph movements, from cheap (Landeron) to expensive (whatever) all of which are serviceable, many of which have wonderful worthwhile watches wrapped around them.

I have serviced, 321, 7733-6, L47-248, 1270, 23, 72, 170, 210, 175 - and they all go together well and all have their own virtues. Ruling out an entire class because of general sweeping statements is not good for this hobby and ensures that some historically significant watches are potentially ignored. This is the snobbery and pretence that I am arguing about - look at vintage car collecting for solid parallels.

I have many Val 7733, 34 and a 36 of which I am very fond and wear often - they capture the 1970s and several are important pieces to collect of specific models and manufacturers. I also have 3 Landeron 47's which date to 1937 and were the first cam switched chronograph - should I ignore such a important movement because of 'perception' about its quality? Personally I am quite happy with the quality I have observed while restoring these pieces, sure they are not equivalent to the 23/72/321 but they were not intended to be - they were however fit for purpose.

The following examples are mostly one's I've restored recently...

Here is my latest Landeron 47, I get a thrill every time I wear it and it is 81 years old, I think this owes me about $100.









and this one which is a super rare 7 jewel - but look at those pushers! Cost me about $120.









Here is a nice Venus 188 that I rescued for US$125, not very long ago.









Now, I love a good chunky 1970s watch - which is about to get obvious, but I also own examples of 1930s - 50s - 175s, 170s, etc.

Here is a Val 7733, which I also enjoy often, I have its sister 7734 as well. This was basically free - but that's not typical.









And here is a Val 7734 which I cannot live without, there is also a version with the val 23 - and ought be collected also. I paid a lot for this, but it is perfect and I am a Roamer collector. This one is a little different, I did not restore or rescue it.










How about a different example, consider the Nivada Chronomaster (similar to the chronoking posted above) - they became fairly hot recently. They came in a full range of movements from Valjoux to Landeron. My example has a Valjoux 23 and it's very nice indeed, and like the Roamer above I did not restore or rescue it.









I would personally prefer not to have this model with the L248 or V7733, because I can get a Val 23 version for only a small premium. However, what about the first model - from 1963, before they were "Chronomaster" when they were named "Chronograph Aviator Sea Diver" rather than "Chronomaster Aviator Sea Diver" - this was only available in a Venus 210. So if I want to collect Nivada, I must also collect this first model which has a cam switched movement.










Thread is here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/1963...ph-aviator-sea-diver-first-model-4676609.html

Now in defence of the Venus 210 - it is a very nice movement, better than the 188 - it does not use wire springs, probably better than a Lemania 1270. Its is also quite hard to come by in general.

Movements are one part of a collectable watch. There is a premium on some, some are even worth that premium. I agree that you ought get the best movement you can, for a given model.

I however challenge you all, that simply because of movement snobbery, some watches should not be collected. That is ridiculous, pretentious and is a great loss to this hobby. I love wearing these "undesirable" watches above - and I have many more examples to enjoy as well.

They were also mostly cheap, so the return of enjoyment for investment is very high indeed!

Kris.


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## Mirius (Mar 18, 2011)

Personally I’m happy for some snobbery as it deters those with large wallets from overpricing the entry level chronos.


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

Mirius said:


> Personally I'm happy for some snobbery as it deters those with large wallets from overpricing the entry level chronos.


There is that. Its nice to have you back btw.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm not and have never been a watch snob. Pin levers are, in their own way, just as good as high class movements: they are often a lot more rugged for a start. However, the important this is always: "...if the price is right!" A pin lever for ten dollars is just as collectible as a Swiss lever for a hundred. A pin lever at a hundred dollars is almost never collectible.....!

So, the bottom line as far as the chronograph world goes, is: a Valjoux 773x is just as collectible as a Valjoux 23 - at the right price!

Hartmut Richter


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

trim said:


> Yes these are all very nice watches, and I have examples of these calibres (well not a 22) in my collection too. GV - your $800 was an excellent deal, as was DF's 22 (of which I am deeply envious), but these are atypical successes.
> 
> It doesn't change the fact that there are a wide range of collectable chronographs and chronograph movements, from cheap (Landeron) to expensive (whatever) all of which are serviceable, many of which have wonderful worthwhile watches wrapped around them.
> 
> ...


You have an interesting and diverse collection. Every collector has his demands as well as his likes and dislikes which makes the hobby interesting. Problem is that the prices have become unreasonable for some watches fitted with basic movements. I have three watches with a cam operated chronograph movement, a speedmaster markII, a speedmaster markIV and a speedmaster 125 because they were for me the top a cam operated chronographs back then. I am thinking to add an Omega big blue fitted with an Omega 1040 one of the very best selfwinding chronograph cam operated movements ever built, also thinking to add a Flightmaster with cal 910/911 as well when it comes to cam operated movements.
Otherwise for my future chronograph purchases, I am going to look and have a strong preference for a column wheel chrono movements. I prefer to wait and buy at the right price than buy what I find too common or perhaps not in my tastes. Whatever makes you happy and if you enjoy and like your watches that what counts. I am a very unusual collector I buy a watch because of the quality of the movement first.Every collector has his goals and shapes his collection the way he thinks it is the best.

Best regards

Georges


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## DragonDan (Dec 22, 2009)

Excelsior Park, even with the limited spare parts (most notably the column wheel and mainspring) should still be considered for someone's $$ - $$$ budget. These feel great when in use, sharp and snappy response to the buttons.

Plus, they are beautiful. 
Here are the major variants: EP42 (prior to a rebuild), EP40, EP4-68, and EP40-68


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## trim (Mar 22, 2010)

georges zaslavsky said:


> Y] Whatever makes you happy and if you enjoy and like your watches that what counts.


Absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

I buy watches primarily to fix (well there are some other criteria as well) - so parts supply and being interesting are significant factors. I am not interested in investment, although if it happens it's always a nice side-effect.


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## Heckflosse (Mar 1, 2018)

This thread has been a wealth of information! I can't thank everyone enough for sharing their thoughts and opinions.


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

for those who it might be of interest, here is a nice example of a nice twin of my revue diving chrono but rebranded under the arsa name but powered by a valjoux 22 with a slightly lesser finish, rare and uncommon
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/1960s-ARSA-...-22/202212711633?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Personally, when I wear a chronograph, I like to wear one that is actually useful. That means a stopwatch movement that has a central minutes as well as central seconds. Right now I've been wearing a Lemania 5100 (encased by Modina). Hummmm.... maybe that means I should sell the OP all my others? LOL


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## Molliedooker (Jul 23, 2014)

georges zaslavsky said:


> You have an interesting and diverse collection. Every collector has his demands as well as his likes and dislikes which makes the hobby interesting. Problem is that the prices have become unreasonable for some watches fitted with basic movements. I have three watches with a cam operated chronograph movement, a speedmaster markII, a speedmaster markIV and a speedmaster 125 because they were for me the top a cam operated chronographs back then. I am thinking to add an Omega big blue fitted with an Omega 1040 one of the very best selfwinding chronograph cam operated movements ever built, also thinking to add a Flightmaster with cal 910/911 as well when it comes to cam operated movements.
> Otherwise for my future chronograph purchases, I am going to look and have a strong preference for a column wheel chrono movements. I prefer to wait and buy at the right price than buy what I find too common or perhaps not in my tastes. Whatever makes you happy and if you enjoy and like your watches that what counts. I am a very unusual collector I buy a watch because of the quality of the movement first.Every collector has his goals and shapes his collection the way he thinks it is the best.
> 
> Best regards
> ...


i have watched your collection of Omegas over the last couple of years Wow.
The 1040 is, as you know , based on the Lemania 1340 which imo is rugged and bulletproof. I have restored one and totally rebuilt another. Lemanias not Omega .I am only interested in buying parts or repair watches and getting them going again and have been tempted in pulling the trigger on an Omega Speedy reduced 3510.5 that needs work but the more I read about the movement being an eta2890 with a Dubois Dépraz chrono module and it's fragility I reckon it would definitely be one to avoid for a novice . I'll have to sleep on it.
Currently fixing a 471 parts or repair .


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

Molliedooker said:


> i have watched your collection of Omegas over the last couple of years Wow.
> The 1040 is, as you know , based on the Lemania 1340 which imo is rugged and bulletproof. I have restored one and totally rebuilt another. Lemanias not Omega .I am only interested in buying parts or repair watches and getting them going again and have been tempted in pulling the trigger on an Omega Speedy reduced 3510.5 that needs work but the more I read about the movement being an eta2890 with a Dubois Dépraz chrono module and it's fragility I reckon it would definitely be one to avoid for a novice . I'll have to sleep on it.
> Currently fixing a 471 parts or repair .


Thank you. Lemania was always a stellar movement manufacturer whether it came to quality and accuracy. The one in the speedy reduced is a 2892-a2 with a throwable dubois depraz module. If you want something very durable and reliable, get a lemania 5100. One of my favorite and highly collectible chronograph movement while not produced anymore since 2003. For spare parts, check cousinsuk.com


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## ciccio_started_it (Oct 20, 2013)

georges zaslavsky said:


> for those who it might be of interest, here is a nice example of a nice twin of my revue diving chrono but rebranded under the arsa name but powered by a valjoux 22 with a slightly lesser finish, rare and uncommon
> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/1960s-ARSA-...-22/202212711633?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


That's a super piece! GLWS

Follow me on Instagram @ciccio_started_it


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## MoreToasties (Jul 16, 2010)

So much amazing information in this thread. The Gallets posted above are incredible!

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

In case someone looks for something original, two twins of my revue
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173300792721?ul_noapp=true
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-CROTON...m=222923755128&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

wow, if these watches are worth that, I'm going to have to start selling! LOL


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## wappinghigh (Dec 27, 2016)

Great Thread!!! Kris (Trim) where are you based? Also how often does a manual chrono need servicing if it isn't worn much. Thanks!


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

How often?! Just as frequently as an ordinary watch. The requirement for servicing doesn't depend on the complexity of the watch, it depends on how it is running at present and whether any part is damaged (the sort of "weakest link" theory). If it has been serviced two yers ago but is behaving wonkily, it needs servicing. Regardless of that, a watch should be serviced once every ten years at the absolute outside if you want to avoid damage.

Hartmut Richter


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