# How does Sinn and Damasko compare to one another?



## docspence1 (Mar 8, 2012)

Does anyone have experience or knowledge regarding the Sinn brand compared to its fellow German brand, Damasko? They seem to have similar visions regarding their brands. I guess you would say as tool watches. I was interested in how Tegimented steel and Damasko's "patented" steel might compare besides the measurement of Vickers? How about reputations?

Marc


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

Sinn seems to not have any waiting lists when you order a watch. Well, you do not "order" it, you just buy it.


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## shuie (Dec 28, 2011)

docspence1 said:


> Does anyone have experience or knowledge regarding the Sinn brand compared to its fellow German brand, Damasko? They seem to have similar visions regarding their brands. I guess you would say as tool watches. I was interested in how Tegimented steel and Damasko's "patented" steel might compare besides the measurement of Vickers? How about reputations?
> 
> Marc


Seems like both are highly, even over, engineered. In terms of case hardness, the tegimented steel by Sinn is harder by vickers, but this is only the surface. Under the tegiment is 316L steel. This would likely give scratch resistance edge to sinn while total case hardness would be better for damasko. Also, entire damasko is ice hardened, whereas sinns case back is plain old stainless steel (they do this to keep the case back nickel free). I can only speak from expeience on sinn - had 856 non-utc for 3 days now. I'm blown away with its quality. With either brand you are going to get a very quality piece.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


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## Drop of a Hat (Dec 16, 2011)

From what I've seen, Sinn seems to have a larger following. The reasons imho being that,
A. There are a few Sinn owners on the forum who do some extreme work and can't stop talking about their Sinn holding up so well (I believe the deep miners name is Patrick)
B. Sinns looks is very clean and unencumbered. So it can appeal to a broader crowd. While to me, All damaskos kind of blend together.
C. Sinn has a noted track record of excellent quality control, fantastic customer service and some interesting unique features on the watch that I have yet to see somewhere else (i.e. that capsule thing and Argon gas filling). 

Im not so knowledgable about the brand so I apologize if I got anything wrong. 

Sent Via Tapatalk


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## docspence1 (Mar 8, 2012)

I bought the 856 Non-UTC a week ago and love it. I prefer Sinn's few minimalist faces. In you didn't get the expansion buckle for it you should consider it. It's one of my favorite parts of the watch, nifty and well made.


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## shuie (Dec 28, 2011)

docspence1 said:


> I bought the 856 Non-UTC a week ago and love it. I prefer Sinn's few minimalist faces. In you didn't get the expansion buckle for it you should consider it. It's one of my favorite parts of the watch, nifty and well made.


I've thinking about picking one up. Thanks


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## CMSgt Bo (Feb 12, 2006)

If you like bracelets Damasko is not for you. OTOH, Sinn make some of the best in the business.


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## gaopa (Dec 6, 2008)

CMSgt Bo said:


> If you like bracelets Damasko is not for you. OTOH, Sinn make some of the best in the business.


Amen, Bo! Cheers, Bill P.


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## breitlingso08 (Jun 14, 2008)

One thing damasks has on sin is they have made an Inhouse movement... But no sadly no bracelets


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

We do offer a cross forum search function which would lead you to some interesting threads on case hardening procedures.

For your convenience:

Case-hardening can be done in different ways, for example "Nitriding", "Kolsterizing", "Ice-Hardening".

Nitriding is a surface hardening heat treatment that introduces nitrogen into the steel. The process is similar to the process known as "kolsterizing" which introduces carbon into the surface layer.
And just to add: Tegimented cases (Sinn watches for example feature tegimented cases) are surface hardened only. That process was invented by dutch Prof. Kolster. You may visit the Bodycote web site for more information.

The Damasko ice-hardening process hardens the case through and through. The steel Damasko uses isn´t the very common 316L (known also as surgery or dentist steel), which is an austenitic steel but a martensitic steel.

Here´s a quote taken from the interview WUS - Damasko in 2007:

....."Well, first of all I would like to mention that my major goal always was and still is to construct a watch with superior technical characteristics which should represent a very high standard. The most ideas or let´s say projects have been developed at home, sitting in front of the TV. While my wife is watching television I always have some drafts or paperwork on my knees I am fiddling about with.
It needed more than 3 ½ years of extensive work (at least the last two years) to realize the DAMINOX process which allows to harden austenitic steel alloy (316L, 904) to between 1000 and 1800 HV, depending on the composition of the stainless steel. So far the "ice-hardening" process of martensitic steel (we do use 1.41.08) was only the first step into a new world of hardened steel. Of course I had to face some backstrokes over the time but finally I succeeded.
All that is based on long years of extensive research which lead to several dozens of patents and I always feel proud when a watch leaves our factory"......

Link to another thread: Kolsterising - harder than armored steel

Most forgotten: The case of the Sinn 756-I was made by...................................D A M A S K O !
Since 1994 Damasko got some patents on in-house made innovations which are a strong testament to their own creativeness. Sinn still has no inhouse movement. Damasko already developed two. "Si" und EPS-spring are other examples.

#Drop of a hat: All Damasko kind of blend together ? Clearly not.

The Damasko H 35


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## docspence1 (Mar 8, 2012)

I purchased a Sinn but based on the information I'm receiving I can respect both. I appreciate the technical data you have given. Not that I would need a watch with those metal properties but any company that puts that much technology and passion into their watches like Sinn and Damasko must be making a quality product. I realize in-house movement and _manufacture_ status mean a lot to the so called experts. However, in my research in-house does not necessarily mean better from what I've read. What better means, I know, is like debating religion. The ETA movement I have in my watch is considered to be a well designed mechanical device that is both accurate and efficient. It might lack the beauty of a Patek but I didn't spend 20K for it either. I'm not sure how much a "poor man's" Patek costs? I'm glad neither company advertises in the U.S. so I can save 30-40% in marketing and name costs alone.


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## Ames (Feb 2, 2008)

Seems like every Damasko is too small.


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## chris in ohio (Feb 10, 2011)

I could be wrong, but isn't Sinn a much bigger brand, in general, over Damasko? I always thought Damasko was more of a "micro" or "boutique" brand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## mebiuspower (Sep 24, 2009)

Don't know much about Damasko but they all have the same shape sword-type hands? Not a fan of day-date watches to be honest.

Damasko USA German Precision Watches - Collection

Sinn makes a whole bunch of other stuff like the financial district, classics, and ladies watches.


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## David Woo (Feb 12, 2006)

good question, as there are some obvious similarities. 

In my opinion, Sinn began with a focus on tool watches, based on Hr Sinn's background in military aviation. The current owner has brought a broader vision to the company while maintaining a focus on technical advances.

Damasko seems to benefit from being a small division of a larger company, and thus are able to benefit from the technology available from the machine tool side of the business. I feel that the similarities of their models is actually a strong point, as they don't have to fuss with making models appear different, but can focus on the technical advancements instead of appearances.

Just my opinion after a few years of watch collecting.


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## docspence1 (Mar 8, 2012)

I read up on the Damasko Calibre A35. It looks like Mike S. above is "the man" when it comes to Damasko knowledge based on my Google search. It looks like this movement is unavailable at the moment. It seems to be in high regard with people anxiously awaiting its availability. It is priced at 4K and up however. I compared my Sinn 865 Non-UTC with the Damasko DA36. They look like the same watch with the same ETA movement. The only difference visually is the different Arabic numerals used and a yellow vs. white second hand. Obviously, these two companies are competing with each other. Both are 40mm


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## shuie (Dec 28, 2011)

docspence1 said:


> I read up on the Damasko Calibre A35. It looks like Mike S. above is "the man" when it comes to Damasko knowledge based on my Google search. It looks like this movement is unavailable at the moment. It seems to be in high regard with people anxiously awaiting its availability. It is priced at 4K and up however. I compared my Sinn 865 Non-UTC with the Damasko DA36. They look like the same watch with the same ETA movement. The only difference visually is the different Arabic numerals used and a yellow vs. white second hand. Obviously, these two companies are competing with each other. Both are 40mm
> View attachment 656071
> View attachment 656075


Not the same movement at all. Sinn uses "top" grade 2892 movement in the 856(2893 for the utc version). Damasko uses "standard" grade 2436 (the day/date compilation of 2824 movement). Damasko does do some upgrades (rotor, incabloc), but standard 2436 is no way similar to top grade 2892. Grade of movement go: standard, elabore, top, and chrono - 2892 starts at elabore. A standard grade movement doesn't even have incabloc shock resist technology, Damasko does add this. In the past Damasko did use a "top" grade movement (I think approx the first 200 - theres a good thread on it in the german watch forum), but emails to the company have confirmed the grades of both these movements.


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## Andy S. (Feb 18, 2006)

Ames said:


> Seems like every Damasko is too small.


...with one or two fairly specialized exceptions to Sinn's product line, most of their larger models are 44mm (U series, 900flieger, 142 etc etc).... many of Damaskos watches are way too small for me, unfortunately (er, maybe that's good actually), but the DC66 and 67 and it's variants are all 43.8mm across bezel (aka ~44mm) and my DC67 wears pretty much like my U1.


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## Andy S. (Feb 18, 2006)

chris in ohio said:


> I could be wrong, but isn't Sinn a much bigger brand, in general, over Damasko? I always thought Damasko was more of a "micro" or "boutique" brand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


You are correct sir, yes, but Damasko exists under the umbrella of Damaskos steel machining and manufacturing which is a much larger operation (iirc) and has had the obvious benefit of this in it's watch making.


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## LH2 (Oct 25, 2009)

On my 6.75" wrist I find Damaskos to be a better fit for me, and most Sinns are too large. Style-wise, I prefer the simpler dials of Damasko and find many Sinn dials to be busier than I like.

The exception is my 556, which is a nice clean dial and good size for me. I also like the 856 non-UTC, but it looks too similar to my DA36 to justify the purchase.


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## jabstick420 (Sep 12, 2009)

Sinn makes bracelets.

Damasko doesn't.


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## Mark McK (Aug 18, 2007)

Sinn has focused on tool type watches that span a wide variety of uses. Sinn has dive watches, a variety of watches that pilots would find excellent and also watches for everyday wear. Sinn has the EZM line of watches with specific design specification based on job requirements/descriptions. All Sinn watches have a tool watch/technical persona. Damasko focuses more on pilot and everyday wear watches with a similar tool watch design. Hence, we see the 100m depth limit with our Damakso cases as well as high antimagnetic and negative pressure resistance. The quality of Sinn and Damasko watches are very similar. I am a fan of both though own more Sinns due to the more limited scope of Damasko.


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## ffeelliixx (May 22, 2007)

Having owned 3 Sinns and 2 Damaskos, I prefer Sinn's styling and larger product line.

Having said that, in my experience with these five watches, I find Damasko to have superior fit and finish, better quality control, nicer AR coating, and more durable black coated case finishes compared to Sinn. If you like the styling of of both equal, I would recommend Damasko over Sinn.


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## dnslater (Feb 26, 2009)

shuie said:


> Seems like both are highly, even over, engineered. In terms of case hardness, the tegimented steel by Sinn is harder by vickers, but this is only the surface. Under the tegiment is 316L steel. This would likely give scratch resistance edge to sinn while total case hardness would be better for damasko. Also, entire damasko is ice hardened, whereas sinns case back is plain old stainless steel (they do this to keep the case back nickel free). I can only speak from expeience on sinn - had 856 non-utc for 3 days now. I'm blown away with its quality. With either brand you are going to get a very quality piece.
> 
> Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


Certain Sinn models like the U series do not use 316l as their base metals. They use a German submarine steel that is 50% harder than 316L


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## David Woo (Feb 12, 2006)

breitlingso08 said:


> One thing damasks has on sin is they have made an Inhouse movement..


Isn't the SZ line of movements inhouse?


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## mattjmcd (Oct 2, 2010)

I really like both brands. Some may worry about the lower grade movement reputed to be in some of the Damaskos. That may or may not be true for any given watch depending on when it was made, but rest assured that Damasko has a very good reputation for regulating and adjusting the watches before they go out to the customer. Regardless of movement grade, timekeeping standards for Damasko watches seem to be excellent. In short, I'd let your preference for style and bracelet vs strap help you in your decision making process.


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## Will_f (Jul 4, 2011)

They're comparable in a lot of ways. The lower end Damaskos are a little cheaper, but have lower grade movements. The high end Damaskos have better movements but cost more. I like the Damasko case technology better, but I like some of the Sinn styles better. Both represent what I feel are compelling price to value arguements. The new DK-10/11 & recently announced DK14/15 have some amazing technology incorporated in the movements and are a bargain for what you get, despite the >$4000 price tag. I will say that the absence of a bracelet on the part of Damasko is an important consideration. 

Damasko the watch company is much smaller than Sinn. I dunno what their production volumes are, but a few thousand per year is probably way high. The fact that they're able to play with the big boys at reasonable prices speaks to the obsession of the owner and that is part of the appeal for me. It's also my biggest concern. It's possible that getting a Damasko movement or case repaired 20 years from now will be impossible because the company closed it's doors. Sinn is more likely to be a going concern with their larger size and bigger presence in the watch world.


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## hydrocarbon (Aug 18, 2008)

Good replies and information in this thread. My experience is that they both make excellent quality watches, with Sinn obviously having a much broader range. The sterile Arabics of the Damasko products reduced their appeal to me for a long time, but they've released several new dial variations lately and I like their design philosophy. All their cases are essentially interchangeable with the 756/757 and 856/857 Sinns in appearance.

Damasko doesn't have a whole lot of variety, but then again, they don't do bloated 47mm fashion watches either. They're oversized watches by historical standards; the "too small" comments indicate a poor sense of proportion. At least in the case of Damasko and several Sinn models, the dimensions are justified by an antimagnetic inner case. I am very disappointed with Sinn's recent decision to pander to a passé fad with models like the 358, and the EZM 10 is just a mess. "Limited editions" like the Ultimate U and U-212 are contemptible and will hurt them in the long run.


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## ffeelliixx (May 22, 2007)

hydrocarbon said:


> "Limited editions" like the Ultimate U and U-212 are contemptible and will hurt them in the long run.


I like them. I wish Damasko would come out with some similar models.


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## Andy S. (Feb 18, 2006)

hydrocarbon said:


> the "too small" comments indicate a poor sense of proportion.


....actually the 'too small' comments reflect a personal preference for watches above a minimum diameter. a 40, 41mm watch is simply too small for me and many others, period.


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## enkidu (Mar 26, 2010)

Andy S. said:


> ....actually the 'too small' comments reflect a personal preference for watches above a minimum diameter. a 40, 41mm watch is simply too small for me and many others, period.


Nothing wrong with that. Damasko does have some pretty decent sized watches. I guess you're not aware of the DC66, bezel diameter 43.8mm?


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## Andy S. (Feb 18, 2006)

...my original post indicated a lot of Damasko's line were 'too small' for me, but not their entire line........i am aware of of the ~44mm DC66, it's the same size as my DC67. :-d


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