# Looking for advises how to manufacture my own custom watch



## MichaelDyott (Feb 7, 2017)

Hello everyone, 

I've been digging in all threads of this forum for about a month, but i would be grateful for any kind of advise about watch manufacturing in China.

About myself:
I'm planning to invest into a watch brand manufacturing, I've been drawing for 15 years, graduated in art and design academy, therefore, i'm kinda close to designing stuff. I also have knowledge in using AutoCAD, Sketchup, Photoshop. Sorry for my English, haven't wrote in a while.

What kind of advises I'm looking for:
-I would like to know some details about of how to find manufacturers in Hong Kong or Shenzhen (or China, but as much as I've read Hong Kong manufacturers are more reliable). People wrote in past threads to look for the big brands manufacturing factories, but I'm struggling to find this kind of information for i.e where Fossil or DW, etc. is being manufactured in Asia. 

-I have couple of sketches of watch designs I'm thinking about, what should be my next move? Should I start sending hand drawn sketches to manufacturers or do I need be more specific and send them already made AutoCAD 2D techincal drawings with all the dimensions in it and maybe include a 2D colored Illustrator vector file... Or i still must provide some rendered visualisations or a 3D CAD model of case for them?

-Help me save some of my time! I've read that main softwares for developing watch designs are Illustrator for 2D vectors and Rhino for 3D CAD, which should i learn first to save some time, cause learning both in the same time for me is difficult at this moment. 

-How does warranty work if the watch get broken in my clients hands? Do I send it back to manufacturer in Asia or I should look for a watchmaker in my country for doing warranty jobs for me? 

-I was thinking if its possible to somehow reduce custom duty taxes by sending ordered watches directly from i.e Hong Kong by making a contract with some kind of company for this work? Or it isn't worth of thinking of and just ship all the watches for myself to Europe?

Thank you for you time reading this, any kind of advise would be very helpful for me in this long and difficult road!


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## agrgt_Design21 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Michael,

I may have some resources for you. Send me a pm, we can talk.


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## DEPA (Feb 3, 2012)

Many people are in the same stage as you and looking for a manufacturer, who can make their dreams become reality. A few hints when searching for manufacturers.
1. You get what you pay for. Means if going always for the cheapest, you will most propably just get a cheap looking watch. 
2. You never know when your design pops up when you are most succesful with it unless you find a supplier with ethics, who honours your intellectual property. Especially be aware of the ones who offer you quantities below 500 pcs for your custom project. They for sure will sell your watch to anyone asking for it
3. Ask the manufacturer if they have an own technical department and whether those guys speaking english. Very often the sales personal is femaile and in the early 20s. So they have no clue about technical matters and they do nothing different than looking good and speaking english
4. Ask for the aftersales service and where it is gonna happen. Because this is the tricky part. You are often left alone when it comes to guarantee issues. You cannot simply send back watches for example to China. They will charge you a 40% tax on your watches. The chinese customs regulations is all about exporting. Never importing or temporary importing. 
5. Very often they simply buy some watches from competitors and tell you that they made it. Also they very often steal photos or models from others to show on their website as their products. Take your time and investigate and dont be afraid to write to these brands to make sure that this is their real supplier. Due to my 26 years of experience with them, no serious manufacturer shows their clients work to approach new clients. 
6. Check carefully whether you are dealing with a trading company or manufacturing company. Trading companies are not needed, since they are seldomly cheaper than any european based company.
7. Check for how long the company exists. Very often the companies don't exist for longer than 10 years. Barely they have enough experience or skills. They just heard that they can make easy money with watches. Some watchnerds here know more than the most of the watchcompanies there
8. If you are targetting to sell your watches to watchnerds, you need to make damn sure, that your supplier is caring about details. Made a lot of experience with guys telling me that the samples not 100% correct but in mass production they would. If they didnt manage to deliver what was promised in the sample, then they barely will be able to do in massproduction. Later you will be in a worse situation because you already paid the advance payment and they simply tell you to buy this and when you give reorder they will change
Well there are much more tips and tricks to avoid problems with suppliers, but those would take too long to explain everything to you. Many newcomers made bad experiences with chinese suppliers because they are simply not easy to catch, since the chinese laws protect them.


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## A-prototype (Apr 20, 2016)

Hi,
I want to ask you first. Are you only looking for manufacturing in China? 
I do have one open communication line in one watch factory. A long time ago company even made watch cases for Glashütte if brand is your preference. But I would say if you paying for your design you are the brand. Not to sound like a commercial. A time ago I looked for solutions even to Russian watch factories, and I would not count them out. But it’s always a preference. Send an email, if you need more details. Regards, Bernard


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## MichaelDyott (Feb 7, 2017)

@DEPA 
Thank you for your time writing and explaining how does manufacturing work in Asia

At the moment I'm trying to estimate the costs of manufacturing and figured maybe you could give your opinion on it
As you mentioned reliable manufacturers usually ask for 500 MOQ (some does 300 units as I've read in different threads i suppose?)
As my main goal would be to compete with MVMT, DW style and price range brands in the market segment. I'm hoping to achieve even better quality as they do, but it also depends a lot on manufacturing costs, for example I found that to produce one DW watch with NATA strap should approximately cost around 17 USD. Therefore, I was thinking how much it should cost for me to manufacture a watch witch would be interesting for watchnerds and for people who are just looking for a nicely designed watch. Could I fit into 20 USD per one watch out of 500 units per order? 
Also I have a question about the MOQ, when for example ordering 500 units does all the watches of that order must be with the same colors or exactly the same watch design can be manufactured with different colors and split in half like silver ones 250 units and rose gold 250 units all combined its 500 units? 
Or i have to purchase 500 units of each color modifications of the same watch design?

These answers could do a huge help for me calculating approximate costs of investment.

@A-prototype

Hello and thank you for your reply. Well at this stage of my research I only found that Asia is the most popular and affordable to manufacture watches. I also have thought about the Russian manufacturers, since I've seen couple of successful brands made in Russia. Only one thing concerns me is the environment of business dealing with Russians. But I'm open to search for reliable and cost efficient manufacturers anywhere.


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## DEPA (Feb 3, 2012)

I doubt that you could attract watchnerds with watches in that priceleague. The ones who tell you that they could do 300 pcs of custom made watches, are exactly those who will sell your model to anyone who is paying for it. imagine following, when you buy 300 pcs watches, then you are just a small fish. nobody really cares for your 300 pcs watch order. but if it helps to open new markets, because your model is hot, they will of coz be happy to help you. i think you could easily split that 300-500 pcs quantity into different case or dial options. you need to ask them. everybody has a different requirement. you never asked yourself why DW has so many suppliers? actually, those who claim to be their suppliers are not really their real supplier. do you think that the DW supplier would really risk his business with them just to sell you another 300 pcs? it is exactly the scam which i described you in my previous post. DW makes a couple of hundreds millions in gross revenue. They are big fish and none of his supplier would do anything to risk that business. it is very easy to copy that watch. so they buy one and claim that it is their product. newcomers like you easily it that story. let me tell you again, no watchnerd would ever be interested to buy your 20usd watch. anyhow wish you good luck with your venture. it is not my intention to keep you away from entering watchbusiness. just keep your eyes open and dont believe everything these guys want to make you believe


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## A-prototype (Apr 20, 2016)

Hi, Now I'm clearer what your market and price bracket is. First, must say DEPA has some great advice points. I do understand every business project is different, but why do a project, where more energy goes in, than you get out? Your design in this case is zero. Since, design can't be expensive on account of production cost bracket; sales price can't be high because of your business model or specific market, and on top that competition. If you add business travel it is going to be at least ½ of your first 500 unit order. Do not end up with large quantity of unsold goods on the end. Differentiate from others, keep your business idea, but add a quality to your design, and with good/excellent design you'll have your market segment.


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## MichaelDyott (Feb 7, 2017)

@DEPA @A-prototype 

Thank you for those great tips
I totally understand your point guys about a quality watch. At this moment i'm already running a successful business, and kinda know how the market works. I would love to invest into a high quality watches, but to be honest I'm not sure if I would be able to compete with the other big brands in the market. It's a big boys league to do a product watchnerds watches, it requires more investment, more knowledge and I'ts hard to predict how many watchnerds around the world would decide to buy and keep buying my designed watches. For me, it looks way too risky to go for this way in the start from a business man perspective, in other hand if I would be a watchmaker by myself, that would be the only way that it would be worth going. Nevertheless I understand that the watch itself should made of quality to be successful in this business. This is why my main attention would go to the market segment where DW, Fossil, other cheaper brands. Since social media and internet marketing works very well for this market category which I have knowledge already. For example, I wouldn't spend thousand or thousands of dollars for a watch which I haven't tried before on my wrist to see how it looks, on the opposite I would be interested on ordering a watch via internet that cost between 100-200 dollars. To promote a watchnerd watch may require more of brick and motor based business model, which is slower and has even more competition. I have read before in this forum how watchnerd macro brands end up failing their businesses, in my opinion you need make a name for yourself, have a lot of cash to invest, and then move into the more prestige watches category. 

I may be wrong, I don't really know what makes a watch to be a watchnerd, maybe its not what I imagine and I may have a wrong idea about it. Nevertheless you guys are great and this forum is awesome


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## DEPA (Feb 3, 2012)

When going for quality watches you might compete with the big brands. Thats true. But when you go for cheapo watches, you will need to compete with China. Now decide for yourself, which is the less scary competitor. Look at the Motokoure brand as an example. They managed to sell their watch without even having a fully working sample. As long as the concept is interesting, price doesnt matter too much. Price only matters when your product doesnt create emotions



MichaelDyott said:


> @DEPA @A-prototype
> 
> Thank you for those great tips
> I totally understand your point guys about a quality watch. At this moment i'm already running a successful business, and kinda know how the market works. I would love to invest into a high quality watches, but to be honest I'm not sure if I would be able to compete with the other big brands in the market. It's a big boys league to do a product watchnerds watches, it requires more investment, more knowledge and I'ts hard to predict how many watchnerds around the world would decide to buy and keep buying my designed watches. For me, it looks way too risky to go for this way in the start from a business man perspective, in other hand if I would be a watchmaker by myself, that would be the only way that it would be worth going. Nevertheless I understand that the watch itself should made of quality to be successful in this business. This is why my main attention would go to the market segment where DW, Fossil, other cheaper brands. Since social media and internet marketing works very well for this market category which I have knowledge already. For example, I wouldn't spend thousand or thousands of dollars for a watch which I haven't tried before on my wrist to see how it looks, on the opposite I would be interested on ordering a watch via internet that cost between 100-200 dollars. To promote a watchnerd watch may require more of brick and motor based business model, which is slower and has even more competition. I have read before in this forum how watchnerd macro brands end up failing their businesses, in my opinion you need make a name for yourself, have a lot of cash to invest, and then move into the more prestige watches category.
> ...


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## A-prototype (Apr 20, 2016)

Hi,

Now we have a focused conversation and the subject got lot more interesting. Depa again gave a great cue. "We are driven by this very same desire. A desire to push boundaries and make a mark. A desire to be leaders" (motokoure.com). They only offer desire and they are successful in their segment.

Now if you say your design is better or you can design better, than test it. Take a market segment, which wants to buy good quality watch in 3500-5000 mark range (dollars/euros). There are great designs on this forum alone to be very competitive in this segment. Still for that you need to have control of production or unspoken cooperation with Watch Company. Otherwise is going to be a big headache.

But it could be done with diversification of splitting the project your way. Test first one 10 percent or 350-500 mark range and later on design 3500-5000 mark range (sales prices). There are some watch patents and solutions on a market that could make smaller mark range very competitive (even in submariner range&#8230;no quartz here, and no jokes). What you sell is strength, power, and courage.

Brick and mortar shop is for specific markets and project (at least one as exclusivity), but does not work in every country. Online on the other hand is necessity today even for the biggest in business.

I could write more, but let's leave it here for the next time.


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## MichaelDyott (Feb 7, 2017)

Thank you, I'm saving all these great tips. My last question would be:

Is it possible to manufacture a good quality watch in Asia, a kind of watch that a "watchnerd" would like to own. Or I should look for manufacturing in EU instead?

For example, this is a picture of watchuseek forum's member designed watch which was made in Asia, for me it looks like a good quality and nice materials watch with a price tag of 420 US dollars.


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## A-prototype (Apr 20, 2016)

Hi,

We are talking in this lower priced market segment from different positions. You posted a photo of a watch which looks good in general and has even a good quality box. Nevertheless, what this watch does not deliver. Is that extra value (that emotion, excellent functionality, quality) &#8230; and market wants good quality (affordable) watch. In last post I mentioned Submariner... To compete with new watch on the market you need to be interesting. The wise thing to do is to offer to different market segments at once (there is always a limit).

This could be done with above mentioned three points and even one foot against above mentioned watch. All can be packed into one for the sales price of 500 €/$. But I just do not believe that Asian manufacturers can deliver.

Later on you can upgrade this to second foot and go in that final segment 5000 mark (adding fourth point - precision). Business wise, I'm looking from the point who possess patents, solutions and work force, with ability or better yet possibility to innovate (or cooperate on innovation with others). This is good read for ideas: Vostok Amphibia SE (Mmm... Sandwich) | The Time Bum


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## DEPA (Feb 3, 2012)

A-prototype said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are talking in this lower priced market segment from different positions. You posted a photo of a watch which looks good in general and has even a good quality box. Nevertheless, what this watch does not deliver. Is that extra value (that emotion, excellent functionality, quality) &#8230; and market wants good quality (affordable) watch. In last post I mentioned Submariner... To compete with new watch on the market you need to be interesting. The wise thing to do is to offer to different market segments at once (there is always a limit).
> 
> ...


I cannot agree more on what is said here. Just want to add something. Please think why a Ferrari car is favoured against most of the other brands. It has no trunk, consumes a lot of gas, repairs and maintenance is crazy expensive, and finally the price is out of this world. At least compared to a Toyota or Volkswagen. People are still mad about that Ferrari. Why? Because it managed to create emotions. In todays saturated market you cannot create a need for normal and rational products. Creating emotions became pretty much a necessity for beeing succesful. Nobody will buy your watch because it has a nice movement inside when the design doesnt create emotions. Nobody who can afford it, will ever look on a pricetag of a Richard Mille. The ones who do, could easily afford to buy an Omega for 1/100th of that price of the RM. Create emotions first. Then the product will speak for itself. The less work you have selling it


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## MichaelDyott (Feb 7, 2017)

@A-prototype @DEPA 

Thank you, appreciate you taking the time to write all of this. I'll have to think about everything you guys wrote.


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## royaleagle (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi,

I am working for a watch company called Royal Eagle. I am located in Hong Kong and we have factory in Shenzhen. If you are interested to talk, please message me and we see if we can help you.

Thanks.


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## MichaelDyott (Feb 7, 2017)

@A-prototype @DEPA

Hi there again, I was re-thinking, and you guys are truly right about everything you wrote. I'm working as an architect at the moment, and as you mentioned emotion is everything.
I bet you have way more experience than I do in this kind of job. So if i plan to sell a watch which is in 500-1000 USD range, and let's say in quality aspect it's close to motokoure.com sold watches. I'm trying to figure out how much does it cost to manufacture a this type of quality watch, is it 100-200 dollars or even 300 dollars? Also i'm trying to figure out is it the best way just to look for Swiss manufacturers for this kind of job? (I think "made in Swiss" should sell faster). Maybe you could explain to me what creates the most value in the watch by it itself? Is it the Movement, materials that is in it or the outstanding design? 
Thank you.


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## DEPA (Feb 3, 2012)

MichaelDyott said:


> @A-prototype @DEPA
> 
> Hi there again, I was re-thinking, and you guys are truly right about everything you wrote. I'm working as an architect at the moment, and as you mentioned emotion is everything.
> I bet you have way more experience than I do in this kind of job. So if i plan to sell a watch which is in 500-1000 USD range, and let's say in quality aspect it's close to motokoure.com sold watches. I'm trying to figure out how much does it cost to manufacture a this type of quality watch, is it 100-200 dollars or even 300 dollars? Also i'm trying to figure out is it the best way just to look for Swiss manufacturers for this kind of job? (I think "made in Swiss" should sell faster). Maybe you could explain to me what creates the most value in the watch by it itself? Is it the Movement, materials that is in it or the outstanding design?
> Thank you.


PM me if you want to know estimated prices.


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## MechaMind (Mar 23, 2014)

Going for an optimized margin you would have to find a clever break even in between the valuable look ( desire) and a lean process ( each feature causes costs , each step takes effort)
so you would have to acquire customers by desire and save money by clever design and the following manufacturing process..... But how ... that is on you! .... I'm always a bit .... let's say I feel a bit confused. ( And please don't take this as an offence). Many guys like you want to start a watch brand, 
but they ask for information in a way that makes me think if they should do this with this little background (or in their own interest should first dig someway deeper into the topic and learn how to set up a business plan and evaluate the risk and the consequences of the steps they are planning to do. And I'm not sure if aforum is the right place to get informed about the Chinese trading practices (I like the efforts DEPA has taken to give you a rough overview, but there is more detail necessary to get into business interaction with Chinese manufacturers.... ) To save your money -> as there is no insurance that pays for missing competence ( not in case of the investor ( people who would have to ask for the very basics and just bring the money to start such an adventure) but would have no competence in execution and especially not that from some Chinese (black sheep) manufacturers...)

I have heared of a scenario.. ( not sure if it is (still ) true.... ) 

Having competence or not you could manufacture anything ( a man who manufactured toilet seats for Europe in the previous job, could be a watchmaker now) -with support of the government- as long as the peoples republic keeps 51% of the "shares".....


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## MechaMind (Mar 23, 2014)

Here is another interesting thing about Chinese parts and the interaction with Europe

Warning, don't get confused between the CE Mark and the China Export Mark - Archive - Icom UK


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## A-prototype (Apr 20, 2016)

Hi,

Sent long pm for the last post question, therefore I'll just attach something that I just come across for others that have a question how to start, how to produce, what to consider, etc. How To Launch a Watch Company
It's not everything, but gives short and condensed version of business; business planning and direction when someone has an idea and still wants to follow that course (still more details and research necessary for successful business).


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## jeik (Feb 15, 2017)

MechaMind said:


> Here is another interesting thing about Chinese parts and the interaction with Europe
> 
> Warning, don't get confused between the CE Mark and the China Export Mark - Archive - Icom UK


Haha, classic!

At some point China will have to up it's game and shed it's reputation as a cheating copycat, and it won't happen while such an attitude is effectively officially endorsed, exemplified by this.


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## jeik (Feb 15, 2017)

MechaMind said:


> Here is another interesting thing about Chinese parts and the interaction with Europe
> 
> Warning, don't get confused between the CE Mark and the China Export Mark - Archive - Icom UK











Haha, classic!

At some point China will have to up it's game and shed it's reputation as a cheating copycat, and it won't happen while such an attitude is effectively officially endorsed, exemplified by this.


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## Sansoni7 (May 25, 2017)

Great post here.
Thanks


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