# Brazilian Market 300m Orient Diver...



## Isthmus

Check out this automatic 300m Orient diver, model 469SS023, made for the Brazilian Market (don't forget that orient has a factory in Brazil) (Click on the picture for a huge hi-res image):



Here is the same watch on a strap and a coke-style bezel insert, model 469SS022:



Both watches are SS, rated to 300m and have AR coated mineral crystals. No word on whether they are ISO rated or what the movement inside of them is. However based on these pics the movement obviously has a day and date, but no day pusher is apparent. I wonder what caliber this might be, or if the day pusher is simply not visible from this angle. Most brazilian websites I saw it in had it for +/- US$280 (based on today's Reais to US Dollar exchange rates).

Has anyone seen these? Are there any brazilian members who can tell us more or advice us about these? The price seems too good to pass.


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## MINIDriver

They look very nice. I wonder if the lume is better than the 45mm diver US offerings.


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## ninjafish

That;s a great looking watch - I just wish that they would have gone with a 4 o'clock crown.


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## LUW

Whoa, hadn't seen that one before! :-!
Well, did some quick research and it seems to have a 45 mm case but couldn't discover if it's ISO rated or not. If you guys want I can't write Orient Brazil and ask. And for the price, unfortunately it isn't that around here :-(. The best price I could find online (fast search) was US$ 350,00.


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## Isthmus

Hey Luciano, I would really appreciate any information you are able to find. It would be even better is you could get a spec sheet and maybe some real world pictures. Thanks again for offering to help.


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## UpstandingCitizen

MINIDriver said:


> They look very nice. I wonder if the lume is better than the 45mm diver US offerings.


That's the first thing that popped into mind. I do have to say, based on the picture it doesn't look like Orient used the white lume that is found on the 45mm divers, so that's a good sign.

44mm+ without crown, good lume, no pusher, and ISO rated means that I might have to find one of these. :-!


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## Isthmus

I read in a spanish language site that the lume is not in the same level of modern seiko super bright lume. Good but not exceptional (sounds like a Mako doesn't it?)


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## LUW

Isthmus said:


> Hey Luciano, I would really appreciate any information you are able to find. It would be even better is you could get a spec sheet and maybe some real world pictures. Thanks again for offering to help.


Will do! |>
I'll write them and ask what other information they can give me.
But about the lume, I have the impression it _won't_ be as good as what Seiko offers :roll:. All of the Orient watches I've seen so far (here and abroad) have inferior lume when compared to what Seiko offers. So unless this is a special watch, I would think Orient uses the regular lume used on their other watches.


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## Angelis

I wouldn't be surprised if the movement was the 46943...

Is it a screwdown crown?
Exhibition caseback?
ISO rated?
Solid bracelet/folded?
Solid end links?


Angelis:think:


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## MINIDriver

The Mako lume is pretty decent, at least compared to its bigger 45mm brother.

I am surprised that orient, being owned by Seiko, would have access to some of the best lumes in the business.


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## Isthmus

MINIDriver said:


> The Mako lume is pretty decent, at least compared to its bigger 45mm brother.
> 
> I am surprised that orient, being owned by Seiko, would have access to some of the best lumes in the business.


They do, but integration of resources has been ongoing for a few years. not every Orient line has move to extensive component sharing with seiko yet.


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## MINIDriver

Unfortunately finding real life pics or wrist shots of this Brazilian Orient diver has proven to be a futile endeavor. I think LUW is our best option at this point in terms of finding more about this watch.


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## LUW

I sent them an e-mail but so far only got the automatic response. Besides stats, I also asked them where I could find this model around here, to see if I can get some pics of the real thing.


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## jbdan

Good looking mockups....would love to see the real world shots. Does not really look like Orient's "typical style" but I like the looks a lot. Thanks for looking into it LUW


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## LUW

Found another pic:








Looking good so far! |>


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## MINIDriver

Wow! beautiful. Looks more Seiko than Orient. Isn't this a re-packaged Seiko by any chance?


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## UpstandingCitizen

LUW said:


> Found another pic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Looking good so far! |>


Looks like this picture solves the pusher mystery...indeed there appear to be none. :-!

It also looks like the crown _might _be signed, although it's so hard to tell at that angle.

Another nice thing about this one in relation to Orient's other 45mm diver is the bigger (and nicely knurled) crown.

Does anyone else get the impression that the dial is jet black?

Man, this one's starting to grow on me. :-!


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## nhoJ

I think it looks nice. Kinda reminds me of an Oris diver. "Orisient"










The bracelet and clasp look like good quality. I think the font selection for "Automatic 300M" looks cool also. Lume pip and second hand also. If it isn't offically ISO, it must be practically ISO. Hmmm...maybe this will be the next big thing?


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## lio

its a very nice watch, i have tried, very heavy, some pictures from a brazilian forum that i am member.
http://forum.relogiosmecanicos.com.br/index.php/topic,1169.0.html


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## jbdan

LUW said:


> Found another pic:
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Looking good so far! |>


Gorgeous pic. Great looking watch. Crown is signed I see. Looks to be 22mm bracelet which I like. ISO or not does not matter to me. So who's bitin' first


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## nhoJ

Interesting. Nice pictures. The crown looks really cool.

Did you notice he thought it looked like an Oris also?


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## UpstandingCitizen

nhoJ said:


> Interesting. Nice pictures. The crown looks really cool.
> 
> Did you notice he thought it looked like an Oris also?


Haha, I saw that. 

The crown looks awesome, and I really like that it is signed with the "O" logo. If nothing else, it's different than the usual one.

I also see that this Orient has solid end links! :-!

*Edit:* I also noticed that the link lio gave us shows the watch with a different font for the "Automatic" text on the dial. In the pics Isthmus dug up it also uses a lower case "a", whereas lio's link shows the watch with an upper case "A." I think I prefer the version shown in the link.

I'm not sure how long I'll be able to resist temptation on this one. Where or how would a person source one of these?


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## LUW

Ok boys, sit down and take a deep breath... b-)

Ready?

Here we go! :-!






















































(all pics are from *Robson Xavier*, from the _Relógios Mecânicos_ Forum)

I rounded up the pics to be easier to see what we're talking about.


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## nhoJ

UpstandingCitizen said:


> Haha, I saw that.
> 
> The crown looks awesome, and I really like that it is signed with the "O" logo. If nothing else, it's different than the usual one.
> 
> I also see that this Orient has solid end links! :-!
> 
> *Edit:* I also noticed that the link lio gave us shows the watch with a different font for the "Automatic" text on the dial. In the pics Isthmus dug up it also uses a lower case "a", whereas lio's link shows the watch with an upper case "A." I think I prefer the version shown in the link.
> 
> I'm not sure how long I'll be able to resist temptation on this one. Where or how would a person source one of these?


Orient is known to have small differences between stock photos and actual watches. I remember someone at SCWF posting many examples. Actually I just looked at the hi res and the stock photo is just a work up and not a real watch.

The Brazilian and Russian models are tough to get, but I don't think there was much motivation before. The fun is in the hunt.

It is odd to have a 300M diver and just keep it in a regional market. I would think this is a solid watch and not just another 100M Sport diver.


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## Ahriman4891

Looks too much like an Oris :think: at least the lugs accept standard straps/bracelets.  Is there a sapphire crystal version by any chance?


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## LUW

I was so excited to see some actual photos of the watch (and what INCREDIBLE shots! :-!) that I forgot to translate what the author said about his piece. He measured the case at "almost" 46 mm (with crown) and the strap at 24 mm. He describes the strap as having solid links and with a deployant clasp, and the day/date calender can be set to English or Portuguese.

Overall I'm very impressed and if I do find one locally it will be pretty hard to not pull the trigger on it .


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## UpstandingCitizen

LUW said:


> I was so excited to see some actual photos of the watch (and what INCREDIBLE shots! :-!) that I forgot to translate what the author said about his piece. He measured the case at "almost" 46 mm (with crown) and the strap at 24 mm. He describes the strap as having solid links and with a deployant clasp, and the day/date calender can be set to English or Portuguese.
> 
> Overall I'm very impressed and if I do find one locally it will be pretty hard to not pull the trigger on it .


Ok, so a conservative estimate would be somehting like 42-43mm without the crown, which is still a pretty good size. I wonder what the lug-to-lug width is on these...that may be the determining factor in whether or not this one would work on my 8" wrist. I think it looks big enough, though.

LUW: Have you found a ballpark price for these (either in USD or Brazillian currency, I can do the conversions)?


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## LUW

UpstandingCitizen said:


> Have you found a ballpark price for these (either in USD or Braziliian currency, I can do the conversions)?


Garret, so far I found prices running from US$ 300 all the way to $400... :-(

About the strap, somebody other then the OP commented on that topic that he uses the watch on a NATO 24 mm strap. Are the lug-to-lug dimensions standard? I mean, if you know the width of the strap you can infer the width between the lugs?


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## nhoJ

LUW said:


> Garret, so far I found prices running from US$ 300 all the way to $400... :-(
> 
> About the strap, somebody other then the OP commented on that topic that he uses the watch on a NATO 24 mm strap. Are the lug-to-lug dimensions standard? I mean, if you know the width of the strap you can infer the width between the lugs?


Yes, that means the lug width is 24mm, but I think Garret was trying to get to the distance between the lug at 12 and at 6...the height of the watch, I guess.


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## LUW

I found a wrist shot:


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## BenL

ninjafish said:


> that;s a great looking watch - i just wish that they would have gone with a 4 o'clock crown.


+1


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## UpstandingCitizen

nhoJ said:


> Yes, that means the lug width is 24mm, but I think Garret was trying to get to the distance between the lug at 12 and at 6...the height of the watch, I guess.


Yeah, thanks for clearing that up John. I probably should have been more specific.

I've learned that lug-to-lug distance (or the height, if you will) is a determining factor of whether or not a certain watch will fit my 8" wrist.

For example, I think the BFK is 42-43 mm without crown, but it's large lug distance makes it a winner for me. :-!


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## shane27

The more I see it, the more I like it!


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## kew

I found another pic where the owner made modification to the second hand and I would say with very successful results..










Photo borrowed from relogiosmecanicos.com.br.


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## jlh2600

nhoJ said:


> *Orient is known to have small differences between stock photos and actual watches.* I remember someone at SCWF posting many examples. Actually I just looked at the hi res and the stock photo is just a work up and not a real watch.
> 
> The Brazilian and Russian models are tough to get, but I don't think there was much motivation before. The fun is in the hunt.
> 
> It is odd to have a 300M diver and just keep it in a regional market. I would think this is a solid watch and not just another 100M Sport diver.


Yeah I'm noticing that. And this is O.T. but since orient guys are here, does anyone happen to know which regional market for their other 300m diver- which market's version has the black lume & hand surrounds on the orange dial? I have seen pictures of it both ways- even on the same for sale page! So maybe no predicting that.

Looks like a little more lume border than lume on this one, but it looks sharp.


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## kew

Hi jih2600

Is it this one you are talking about..

http://www.orientwatchusa.com/watch.php?id=184

It is certainly available on the U.S. market.


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## jlh2600

kew said:


> Hi jih2600
> 
> Is it this one you are talking about..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is certainly available on the U.S. market.


Yeah thanks alot kew, that's it. Except- and this is such a petty difference- but I actually like this version (the black instead of silver hand & lume surrounds):










Apologies to Isthmus for the O.T.'ing in his thread. I tried asking in the other Orient 300m discussion, but it dead ended with that question.


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## kew

I could perhaps be wrong but I think it is perhaps the lighting that makes the frame around the indexes and hands appear black. 

I think perhaps there was something dark behind the camera that reflected on the shiny silver parts. 

But certainly your pic gives it a meaner look. 

Have a look at these pics http://www.orientalwatchsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4010&p=19455&hilit=+300m+orange#p19455

I think you can see what I mean... Also, if you look at the reflection (in your pic) of the index marker at the 6 position, it is clearly silver


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## LUW

kew said:


> I found another pic where the owner made modification to the second hand and I would say with very successful results..


Indeed :-!! I'd rather have my pieces stock, but this one sure is an improvement.


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## jlh2600

kew said:


> I could perhaps be wrong but I think it is perhaps the lighting that makes the frame around the indexes and hands appear black.
> 
> I think perhaps there was something dark behind the camera that reflected on the shiny silver parts.
> 
> But certainly your pic gives it a meaner look.
> 
> Have a look at these pics http://www.orientalwatchsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4010&p=19455&hilit=+300m+orange#p19455
> 
> I think you can see what I mean... Also, if you look at the reflection (in your pic) of the index marker at the 6 position, it is clearly silver


wOW that was a convincing illusion, I was fooled. So they are all silver surrounds, unless you go with another dial color like yellow. Thanks so much for the information kew. Case closed!

Now, carry on with the other 300m Orient!


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## Justhandguns

What's the exact model number of this new Orient?

Anyone knows?:-s


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## kew

The bracelet model is 469SS023 and the other is 469SS022


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## MINIDriver

LUW, when are you going to start taking orders?

Time to Samba away!


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## MINIDriver

I love Brazilian made stuff. My car's engine was manufactured at the BMW TRITEC plan in Curitiba. My brother's in law '02 VW Golf (Long gone) was also made in Brazil. I do not remember having issues with Brazilian made goods.

Great products, great music, great country, great people. What's not to love?


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## LUW

MINIDriver said:


> I love Brazilian made stuff. My car's engine was manufactured at the BMW TRITEC plan in *Curitiba*.


Close, but not there. The plant is in a small city called Campo Largo (where I live), 25 km from Curitiba (where I was born) b-).

I still haven't found where I can find this watch locally in Curitiba, but as soon as I do I plan on checking it out in person. My second watch (first "real" watch) was an Orient, but right now I don't have anything from the brand. I was in the market for a mechanical diver, maybe a Samurai or Sumo. But discovering this one, being from Orient (would be like going back to my roots) and the GREAT ease of buying it locally makes it a very smart buy for me.


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## MINIDriver

LUW said:


> Close, but not there. The plant is in a small city called Campo Largo (where I live), 25 km from Curitiba (where I was born) b-).
> 
> I still haven't found where I can find this watch locally in Curitiba, but as soon as I do I plan on checking it out in person. My second watch (first "real" watch) was an Orient, but right now I don't have anything from the brand. I was in the market for a mechanical diver, maybe a Samurai or Sumo. But discovering this one, being from Orient (would be like going back to my roots) and the GREAT ease of buying it locally makes it a very smart buy for me.


Luciano, you are correct. Campo Largo.

If you ever get a chance, could you snap a pic or two for me of the plant?


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## LUW

You want the good or the bad news? :roll:

The good news is that sure, I'll snap a pic next time I'm around that part of town :-!.

The bad news is that the plant is closing down <|. Or in fact, maybe it's already closed, I'm not sure.


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## MINIDriver

LUW said:


> You want the good or the bad news? :roll:
> 
> The good news is that sure, I'll snap a pic next time I'm around that part of town :-!.
> 
> The bad news is that the plant is closing down <|. Or in fact, maybe it's already closed, I'm not sure.


I know the plant closed down and was likely sold to the Chinese as soon as production of the 1st gen BMW MINI ended. The 2nd gen MINI uses a PSA-Peugeot engine assembled in Hams Hall (Oxford, UK).

I have owned 3 MINIs (1 normal aspirated and 2 supercharged) with the Brazilian Tritec engines and all of them have been rock solid|>. Here in the United States (And Europe) the TRITEC has a HUGE following of fans.:-! That motor is indestructibleb-)

(Sorry for the brief thread hijack)


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## Isthmus

So let's see if we can sum up the specs:

- ISO Rated: ???
- Depth rating: 300m
- Diameter: 45-46mm incl. crown.
- Lug width: 24mm
- Movement: Automatic with crown activated day/date
- Hand windable: ???
- Hackable: ???
- Crystal: AR Coated Mineral
- Dial: resembles Oris TT diver dial but with smaller lume inserts.
- Day wheel: english & portuguese
- Lume: decent but not great (due in part to the small lume inserts)
- Bezel: Unidirectional 
- Number of bezel Clicks: ???
- Crown: Large knurled signed screw-down crown
- Bracelet: Solid linked oyster with solid end caps.
- Bracelet Clasp: Springloaded flip-lock (diver extension - ???, but does not appear to have one)
- Caseback: SS solid screw type


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## Topher1556

Wow, what a watch. At $300-400 it's a stretch though.

I'd guess it does not have a divers extention, looking at the photos. Also, I don't think it's ISO rated, as it says nothing on the back about "divers" or which environment it's safe in ("Air"...He or not, etc). My guess is they just didn't want to spend the money to have it certified. Maybe there will be an international version later that is ISo. Also, it might only have 2 or 3 fine-adjustment holes...<|.

Solid links, solid endlinks, 24mm lug width, AR coating, chrome indices and day/date window border, 300m WR, 42-44mm w/o crown, big knurled signed crown, all those are big |>.

I'd love to see a competitive source get these .



Isthmus said:


> So let's see if we can sum up the specs:
> 
> - ISO Rated: ???
> - Depth rating: 300m
> - Diameter: 45-46mm incl. crown.
> - Lug width: 24mm
> - Movement: Automatic with crown activated day/date
> - Hand windable: ???
> - Hackable: ???
> - Crystal: AR Coated Mineral
> - Dial: resembles Oris TT diver dial but with smaller lume inserts.
> - Day wheel: english & portuguese
> - Lume: decent but not great (due in part to the small lume inserts)
> - Bezel: Unidirectional
> - Number of bezel Clicks: ???
> - Crown: Large knurled signed screw-down crown
> - Bracelet: Solid linked oyster with solid end caps.
> - Bracelet Clasp: Springloaded flip-lock (diver extension - ???, but does not appear to have one)
> - Caseback: SS solid screw type


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## MINIDriver

If this watch is made and sold in Brazil I somehow don't think we'll ever see an international version of it.


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## Topher1556

MINIDriver said:


> If this watch is made and sold in Brazil I somehow don't think we'll ever see an international version of it.


Could be a test market. It's always hard to tell what a multi-national corporation is doing and why.

It just stands to reason that with the development that went into it...it could be released elsewhere. Right now...just too "brand new" to tell.


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## LUW

Unfortunately, I think it's a model for the BDM only at this point. Since Orient has a factory here, whatever they produce here stays here, but I really don't understand the marketing reasons for such a practice.

The good part is that we can easily get Orient Brazil to make custom watches on limited runs. The original forum where those pics were posted ("Relógios Mecânicos") is currently doing a survey to see what members want on their _second_ forum-exclusive model .


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## obsidian

MINIDriver said:


> If this watch is made and sold in Brazil I somehow don't think we'll ever see an international version of it.


It may still become available from gray market sellers on eBay. I've read speculation that the big factory in Brazil may be the source of a lot of the Orients being sold on eBay by U.S. based sellers. 
I think having one with a Port./Eng. day wheel would be cool and unusual.


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## Isthmus

Topher1556 said:


> Could be a test market. It's always hard to tell what a multi-national corporation is doing and why.
> 
> It just stands to reason that with the development that went into it...it could be released elsewhere. Right now...just too "brand new" to tell.


The watch is not brand new, though it is recent. As I understand it came out last year.


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## LUW

Orient Brazil got back to me on my request about more info on the watch. Nothing terribly new from what we have already found out but some additional information:


Stainless steel case rated at WR 300m _(no mention about being ISO rated, so it's probably not)_.
Mineral crystal glass with AR coating.
Screw-down crown.
Stainless steel bracelet.
Unidirectional bezel _(how many clicks?)_.
Auto movement with 46943 calibre, 21 rubys, day/date, 21.600 cycles/h, 27,5mm


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## Isthmus

Isthmus said:


> So let's see if we can sum up the specs:
> 
> - ISO Rated: ???
> - Depth rating: 300m
> - Diameter: 45-46mm incl. crown.
> - Lug width: 24mm
> - Movement: Automatic with crown activated day/date
> - Hand windable: ???
> - Hackable: ???
> - Crystal: AR Coated Mineral
> - Dial: resembles Oris TT diver dial but with smaller lume inserts.
> - Day wheel: english & portuguese
> - Lume: decent but not great (due in part to the small lume inserts)
> - Bezel: Unidirectional
> - Number of bezel Clicks: ???
> - Crown: Large knurled signed screw-down crown
> - Bracelet: Solid linked oyster with solid end caps.
> - Bracelet Clasp: Springloaded flip-lock (diver extension - ???, but does not appear to have one)
> - Caseback: SS solid screw type


More info from our good friend Jose:

- the 24mm bracelet is tapers from 24 to 20mm at the clasp
- the Movement is an Orient 46949 - No hacking and no hand-winding
- thickness is 13mm
- Crystal a slightly domed.
- Still no word on whether the watch is ISO rated

Jose has been able to find the bracelet version this watch for US$330 and the rubber strap version for US$290.

I'm not sure if it is feasible, but if it can be done and there is enough interest interested, perhaps we can organize a group order.


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## tmt

I´m not sure if it´s been mentioned earlier in the thread, but isn´t the text "Automatic" on the dial exactly like the 6r15 watches?

I really like the watch, I thought of a samurai.
Jan


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## 3+7

Oh, I must say that this one appeals to me. This watch is definately on my current top list.

I have also made some measurements based on the mock-up picture Isthmus posted(since it had the best angle). Based on a lug width on 24mm, I calculated the lug-to-lug to about 48,89mm --> *~49mm* at the widest point. Note: This only applies if the picture i took the measurements from is accurate, but it should be somewhere in that range.

Personally, it wouldn't hurt if it was a bit more, like 51-52 mm.

Edit: Using the same method, I have calculated the diametre without crown to *~43,3mm*


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## MINIDriver

If a group buy can be organized, then the price of the watch has to drop considerably. Seems like a nice watch, but US$330 for one is simply a little too much IMHO.

Surely, there has to be enough interest and a good sized group of people to that end. I just find it hard to justify paying double for an Orient diver just because it happens to be a Brazilian exotic model. Yes, it does look nicer than the 45mm US version sold here, but beyond that, I don't see how the high price can be truly justified.

I guess the question would be.... What is the likelyhood of getting a better price on this Brazilian Orient if enough interest is generated to place orders (20+ watches).


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## Isthmus

MINIDriver said:


> If a group buy can be organized, then the price of the watch has to drop considerably. Seems like a nice watch, but US$330 for one is simply a little too much IMHO.


I should have elaborated. that is already a discounted price.


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## UpstandingCitizen

I could see myself being interested if a group buy was organized.

One nice thing about this situation is that I'm not able to make an impulse purchase, but even after looking at it and considering it for five or six days, this watch still really appeals to me. 

I'm just not quite sure that $330 is gonna do it for me. It seems quite high for a watch that none of us have real world experience with. I'm just wondering if the fit and finish is indicative of a $300+ watch. :think:


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## MINIDriver

UpstandingCitizen said:


> I could see myself being interested if a group buy was organized.
> 
> One nice thing about this situation is that I'm not able to make an impulse purchase, but even after looking at it and considering it for five or six days, this watch still really appeals to me.
> 
> I'm just not quite sure that $330 is gonna do it for me. It seems quite high for a watch that none of us have real world experience with. I'm just wondering if the fit and finish is indicative of a $300+ watch. :think:


Exactly my taughts:-!


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## obsidian

Doesn't it seem to you guys that now that Orient is fully owned by Seiko the new watch designs are incorporating changes to make them look more integrated with Seiko designs. 
I mean, the classic Orient lion shield logo is gone from dial, crown, clasp, and caseback. Instead, the dial has a simple "Orient" in applied metallic letters, just like many Seiko dials-- even the font looks similar to the one Seiko uses for it's classic "Seiko". 
The crown has a Gothic "O" which was originally used only on Orient Stars, but which also follows the Current Seiko pattern of putting an "S" on the crown (a practice which I believe started with the Spirit line but has spread to others models). 
Someone else mentioned that even the font of the word "Automatic" on the dial looks like that used by Seiko in the 6R15 watches.


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## jason_recliner

Agreed. This one has little of the Orient character we know nd love. It is just a big dive (possibly dive style) watch. It is a US$200 watch to me, not $300. If they end up on the bay for $180 or so I'll grab one.


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## kew

obsidian said:


> Doesn't it seem to you guys that now that Orient is fully owned by Seiko the new watch designs are incorporating changes to make them look more integrated with Seiko designs.
> I mean, the classic Orient lion shield logo is gone from dial, crown, clasp, and caseback. Instead, the dial has a simple "Orient" in applied metallic letters, just like many Seiko dials-- even the font looks similar to the one Seiko uses for it's classic "Seiko".
> The crown has a Gothic "O" which was originally used only on Orient Stars, but which also follows the Current Seiko pattern of putting an "S" on the crown (a practice which I believe started with the Spirit line but has spread to others models).
> Someone else mentioned that even the font of the word "Automatic" on the dial looks like that used by Seiko in the 6R15 watches.


Not sure I agree with you there.  As far as I can see the Orient Lion Shield is still there on most Orients. Have a look at the "New Mako" or recent Orients. It's on the dial and clasp. The "Gothic O" as far as I am aware is rarely used on Orient Stars (The "Gothic O" is even on the crown of my 1965 Orient King Divers) and the "S" for Star was being used on Orient Stars from about 1955. I have a 1960 Orient Star Dynamic with an "S" on the crown. As far as I am aware the Orient Lion Shield was never used on Orient Stars. Fonts often change to modernise a product but the fonts, although similar are not the same.

I understand this Brazilian Orient came out late 2008

Hey, I could be wrong.


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## jason_recliner

Nah, you're probably right. I'm sick, and high on codeine, so I don't know what I'm talking about!


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## Robson-RJ

I have one, is an excellent watch. It´s big, but is very comfortable, because the bracelet is 24 mm and with rounded edges. The finish is very good.

A friend made a crazy test freezing (in Portuguese, use the google translator): http://forum.relogiosmecanicos.com.br/index.php/topic,150.0.html

Answering some questions:

- Hand windable: No
- Hackable: No
- Number of bezel Clicks: 90
- Diver extension - No​


Isthmus said:


> So let's see if we can sum up the specs:
> 
> - ISO Rated: ???
> - Depth rating: 300m
> - Diameter: 45-46mm incl. crown.
> - Lug width: 24mm
> - Movement: Automatic with crown activated day/date
> - Hand windable: ???
> - Hackable: ???
> - Crystal: AR Coated Mineral
> - Dial: resembles Oris TT diver dial but with smaller lume inserts.
> - Day wheel: english & portuguese
> - Lume: decent but not great (due in part to the small lume inserts)
> - Bezel: Unidirectional
> - Number of bezel Clicks: ???
> - Crown: Large knurled signed screw-down crown
> - Bracelet: Solid linked oyster with solid end caps.
> - Bracelet Clasp: Springloaded flip-lock (diver extension - ???, but does not appear to have one)
> - Caseback: SS solid screw type


Excuse me the bad English...​


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## kew

Thanks for the extra info. That is one unusual "test". I have learn't one thing and that is not to buy a used Orient from Brazil :-d


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## jason_recliner

90 clicks? Okay, that settles it, I wouldn't pay $200 for this.


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## UpstandingCitizen

jason_recliner said:


> 90 clicks? Okay, that settles it, I wouldn't pay $200 for this.


Yeah, how can it be 90 clicks? Am I missing something...?


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## kew

UpstandingCitizen said:


> Yeah, how can it be 90 clicks? Am I missing something...?


Yes. Sounds a bit unusual. You would expect 60 or 120. But the Sandoz Sub (Hong Kong Version) has a 90 click bezel so maybe that is correct.


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## MINIDriver

I think it is a very nice watch but looks to me like a US$200 piece tops. I don't see why pay nearly double for an Orient driver that looks nice but under the hood (Bonnet) is essentially the same exact thing we can get here today for US$150:

www.orientalwatchsite.com

I am not putting down this Brazilian Orient by any stretch of the imagination. I am just trying to find out what makes it worth asking three hundred plus greenbacks for it?

If it had sapphire, 300m rating, ISO, helium release valve, then may be.

What kind of warranty do you get with these things? Brazil only Orient warranty or the customary 1 year international warranty that comes with every new Orient?

As far as the orient markings and logo, these are still pretty much used on every new Orient Product. The crown on both of my orients is signed with the Orient emblem and so does the clasp and dial.


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## nhoJ

Its hard to set a price on this model as it is likely manufactured in limited numbers intended for a small market. You all are comparing this to mass produced models for the global market. There is a certain economy of scale. 

I'm not saying that this is a limited edition, but it is certainly made in smaller numbers than the Mako and others. To a collector like Isthmus, this may have a certain value to it because 10, 15, 20 years from now, people may be climbing all over each other trying to find this Brazilian only model while you will be able to get plenty of banged up Makos from the future equivalent of Ramone The Watch Collector on eBay.


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## MINIDriver

no hack, no hand wind, no sapphire, no diver's extension, no ISO...


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## Isthmus

90 clicks does sound odd. how do you ensure that the markers are centered with 90 clicks?


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## LUW

I asked a fellow forum member that owns one and he said that he _counted_ 90 clicks.
Why 90?


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## 3+7

LUW said:


> I asked a fellow forum member that owns one and he said that he _counted_ 90 clicks.
> Why 90?


Well, who doesn´t want to have a bezel which can show when 0,666666667 minutes have passed.

But really, I don't get it either. Someone does?


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## WatchMe33

Very nice looking Orient. I hope we get a chance to buy it!

I'll look out for it! :-!


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## LUW

Somewhere above I commented that the Brazilian forum Relógios Mecânicos had the possibility of getting Orient Brazil to make a limited edition of a special model. This year they're coming out with the 2nd series of this watch, the so called "RM2". Well, the RM2 will be based on the 469SS023, and it's going to look very much like one of these:

_*[image removed per Orient do Brazil's request]*_

No, it's not going to be resistant to 1000 m and you can't wind it through the crown.


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## nhoJ

I get to say it first.....Monster hands on an Orient!!!


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## LUW

Take a look at how the special edition RM2 watch will look like:










I´ve already seen photos of the real thing (in prototype form), and Orient Brasil will release it in black and orange. The RM2 is a special edition and will be released with the dial inscriptions above and in black or yellow - only the RM2 will be offered in yellow (so far there will be only around 30 watches with this color in the world!). There is a possibility, that hasn't been cleared with Orient Brazil yet, that the seconds hand will be in red.

Mine is already ordered b-).​


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## MINIDriver

Congrats Dr. Luciano! Can't wait to see the get wrist shots when you get it.


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## LUW

I was going to get the black one, but I think I'll go with the more exclusive yellow one instead.


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## LUW

Here's how it will probably look:








​







​
And I just heard that it _might_ come with a He valve ! We don't have confirmation about the color of the seconds hand yet, but it will come with a rubber strap and a bracelet, and we cane choose between the coke and black bezel (and of course, yellow or black dial). As you can see it's bigger then the current 300 m. It will also be individually numbered (so far there will be 51 watches) on the back case.


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## Isthmus

I saw some pics of the working prototypes for this watch and from what I understand the HE markings where accidentally seen inside one of the hex bolts on the side (btw, those hex bolts are non-functional - decoration only). any talk of an HRV is speculation at this point, as Orient has not said anything about it.

Still I must ask, why seiko would have one of it's companies use an HRV when seiko doesn't use them. they use He Sealing instead, and share that system already with orient.


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## LUW

As I've said, I heard that it _might_ come with the He valve, no confirmation yet. Though by next week I think we'll have an official confirmation.


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## LUW

I forgot to post an update: yes, it will come with a HRV :-!.

My banana 300 will arrive in December or maybe January, 1 of 68 in the world , and of those only 54 will have a yellow dial (but only 18 with black bezel and red seconds hand :-d).


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## jjenk123

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread but has anyone here in the US been able to get one of these. If so please let me know how or where. Thanks


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## mars08

jjenk123 said:


> Sorry to resurrect such an old thread but has anyone here in the US been able to get one of these. If so please let me know how or where. Thanks


hey... what a coincidence!

I only found out about this stunning watch yesterday and was wondering the same thing. The only info I've seen is on a Brazilian forum.


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## kew

Yes I have (although I'm not in the U.S.)... Model 469SS039

Of course the yellow one is a limited edition for a Brazilian watch forum and is not available. The models are in the pics below. The model numbers are shown in brackets. They each come with a rubber strap, strap changing tool and securing hardware presented in a nice box.

I got mine through Bruno at watch/jewellery store http://www.56joiaserelogios.com.br/index.php

You can contact Bruno on [email protected] He is very friendly with a lot of patience and his prices were good too!  You can use a credit card to pay and delivery is by EMS.

There is an Orient factory in Brazil which produces watches we would not normally see. It's worth a look

http://www.orientnet.com.br/ (Enter site then choose "Produtos", although does not work with Google Chrome Browser)


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## UpstandingCitizen

Hey Nathan, you got any pics of yours floating around?


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## kew

UpstandingCitizen said:


> Hey Nathan, you got any pics of yours floating around?


Unfortunately it is not with me at the moment but as soon as I have it in my possession I'll take some pics. It is very very substantial. More so than the Orient 300m saturation diver.


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## shun

MINIDriver said:


> I think it is a very nice watch but looks to me like a US$200 piece tops. I don't see why pay nearly double for an Orient driver that looks nice but under the hood (Bonnet) is essentially the same exact thing we can get here today for US$150:
> 
> www.orientalwatchsite.com
> 
> I am not putting down this Brazilian Orient by any stretch of the imagination. I am just trying to find out what makes it worth asking three hundred plus greenbacks for it?
> 
> If it had sapphire, 300m rating, ISO, helium release valve, then may be.
> 
> What kind of warranty do you get with these things? Brazil only Orient warranty or the customary 1 year international warranty that comes with every new Orient?
> 
> As far as the orient markings and logo, these are still pretty much used on every new Orient Product. The crown on both of my orients is signed with the Orient emblem and so does the clasp and dial.


It does have Helium escape valve(HEV), it is 300m rated (not ISO), no Sapphire. The warranty is for the Brazillian market only. I am a member of the Brazillian forum wich ordered a special version so called RM2, if you guys want me to post some pictures of it i'll be glad to do it. See you!


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## UpstandingCitizen

kew said:


> Unfortunately it is not with me at the moment but as soon as I have it in my possession I'll take some pics. It is very very substantial. More so than the Orient 300m saturation diver.


Wow, this watch must be a real big bugger!

Do you mind me asking how much you paid? You can PM me if you'd prefer.


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## shun

By the way, the pictures on the first pages of this thread are the older version of the Orient 300M..


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## kew

UpstandingCitizen said:


> Wow, this watch must be a real big bugger!
> 
> Do you mind me asking how much you paid? You can PM me if you'd prefer.


No problem. It was US$435.00 shipped. The actual purchase is made in Brazil Reais and that was 771.50 BRL


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## kew

shun said:


> It does have Helium escape valve(HEV), it is 300m rated (not ISO), no Sapphire. The warranty is for the Brazillian market only. I am a member of the Brazillian forum wich ordered a special version so called RM2, if you guys want me to post some pictures of it i'll be glad to do it. See you!


Yes, we love pictures! :-!


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## Coolie_ND

kew said:


> Yes I have (although I'm not in the U.S.)... Model 469SS039
> 
> I got mine through Bruno at watch/jewellery store http://www.56joiaserelogios.com.br/index.php
> 
> You can contact Bruno on [email protected] He is very friendly with a lot of patience and his prices were good too!  You can use a credit card to pay and delivery is by EMS.


Darn you, kew, just when I was beginning to save up.... :-d

Cheers on that, I guess my other purchases are going to have to wait.  That pepsi just looks too good, though if it had the Orient crest on it it would be even better.


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## kew

Sadly my much awaited 300m Orient Poseidon Diver arrived from Brazil at the beginning of January with a scratched crystal. I was also unable to change the day with the crown quickset feature. Pulling the crown to the first position, one could set the date but when one went to set the day by turning the crown in the opposite direction, it would make a clicking sound and one could see the day move a little but it would not flip over.

I returned the watch to Brazil for exchange at the cost of of nearly US$80-00 (EMS is expensive here and the kit is heavy). Unfortunately, Brazil didn't treat the item as an express package and although I sent it on 13 January, it was not delivered until 6 February. The retailer has sent a new one today (11 February) by EMS so it will be here shortly. He has been really great to deal with and very apologetic. I was also able to pay by credit card on his site although I needed his help to complete the order as everything is in Portuguese and it was not that simple. He has however said that apart from the scratched crystal there was nothing wrong with the watch.

So why did I make this mistake? Okay, the instructions were in Portuguese. I did translate them by typing them into Google which seemed to support my view that the crown was responsible for changing the day display. In addition to that, the clicking sound it made with the slight movement of the day wheel convinced me that was the situation. Surely for a watch produced in circa 2010, Orient would not require the owner to move the hour hand back and forth past the 12 midnight position to change the day. But this is how it is done on this model. There is no quickset for the day. This same procedure was required on Orient movements from the sixties. I have also confirmed this with another owner.

Hopefully the watch will arrive soon and I'll post some pictures. It is a very nice looking watch but surely Orient could have put a more modern movement inside.

I don't suppose it is such a big deal for someone who would wear the watch continually but for someone who may change watches regularly this adjustment method is antiquated and time consuming.


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## anirudhkitt

Congrats on the situaition being resolved. Do put up pictures of the watch once you get it.
Thanks,
Anirudh


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## LUW

Postal service down here is TERRIBLY slow lately, at least for packages coming in. Hope you get your watch back soon.

BTW, you should have asked here about how to set the day. The caliber is solid, but it's technologically outdated.


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## kew

Hi there Luciano. Thanks. I have quite a large collection of Orients both new and old. Some of the older ones have that same method of adjusting the date (For example this one I received today

http://www.orientalwatchsite.com/forum/index.php?/topic/7977-new-old-stock-arrival-orient-dxo-deluxe-aaa-king-diver/ )

but not in my wildest imagination did I expect this watch to have a movement with a non quick set day, but I suppose that is one of Orient's little quirks.
:-d


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## LUW

Nathan, the 469SS caliber is pretty much bomb proof, but it can't hide the fact it's a left-over from the 70's. The good part is that it's reliable and accurate. Just so you have an idea, mine (SE version, but basically the same watch as yours) is _less_ then 2 seconds early per day. And that's how it came directly out of the box, no adjustments made, and I'm not the only one here reporting better-then-COSC performances.


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## kew

Sounds great Luciano. I'm sure I will be reporting similar performance.


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## Coolie_ND

kew said:


> Sadly my much awaited 300m Orient Poseidon Diver arrived from Brazil at the beginning of January with a scratched crystal.




Well, that's a bit disappointing to hear. Glad you're getting a new item. |> However, the rest is also somewhat disappointing... mind-boggling even:
 



> Surely for a watch produced in circa 2010, Orient would not require the owner to move the hour hand back and forth past the 12 midnight position to change the day. But this is how it is done on this model. There is no quickset for the day. This same procedure was required on Orient movements from the sixties. I have also confirmed this with another owner.


Even with that, I think I still want the watch... I don't really bother with the date on it anyway. Still, now I'm going to have to wait for your review! :-! ;-)


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## kew

Coolie_ND said:


> [/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
> 
> Well, that's a bit disappointing to hear. Glad you're getting a new item. |> However, the rest is also somewhat disappointing... mind-boggling even:
> 
> 
> 
> Even with that, I think I still want the watch... I don't really bother with the date on it anyway. Still, now I'm going to have to wait for your review! :-! ;-)




Great. Rest assured, I will post some pics and a few words on its arrival. I'm looking forward to it. Sort of like de sha vue ! :-d


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## Desotti

kew said:


> ... Surely for a watch produced in circa 2010, Orient would not require the owner to move the hour hand back and forth past the 12 midnight position to change the day. But this is how it is done on this model. There is no quickset for the day. This same procedure was required on Orient movements from the sixties. I have also confirmed this with another owner...


That's correct but, personal preferences about hands, bezel and lume colors aside, I believe the date adjust is the only real drawback in this watch, as it's movement usually runs within COSC specs as you can see here.

Some pics of mine RM2 versions of the watch (special edition made for our "Forum Relógios Mecânicos" members):




























Cheers!


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## plustardi

Wow - that is a pretty good looking watch!!!


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## nsjong

I just can't get used to the date-wheel.
I think aesthetically, it would've been better to have black w/ white lettering and white with black lettering on the yellow.

Something about the metal date-wheels doesn't fit the rest of the design; unnatural.

But nonetheless, a fine watch.


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## lunasonata

got one over at the sales forum

looking forward to it arriving!!!


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## LUW

If you like big and beefy watches, you'll like it :-!. Has a very toolisih feel to it.


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## WillMK5

Does anyone know what the diameter for the 469SS023 watch is? 








I think this thread swiched watches without mentioning the change. Clearly the 469SS039 is a different watch, bigger case, hands, etc.

I like both but I'm not the biggest fan of the Monster hands on the "39" model.


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## LUW

The 23 was the old version, and the 39 is the new current version. The case, hands and dial are different, the rest is exactly the same. However, the size of the cases, if not the same, are very similar (the 39 has 45,4 mm without the crown).


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## WillMK5

LUW said:


> The 23 was the old version, and the 39 is the new current version. The case, hands and dial are different, the rest is exactly the same. However, the size of the cases, if not the same, are very similar (the 39 has 45,4 mm without the crown).


Orient Brazil has them both for sale, so is it like the Mako and Hogrider (New Mako) where there is a new version of it, but both a still produced?

And in this picture it seems as if the 39 is noticeably bigger than the 23. 








It looks to me, based on the shape of the lugs, that it's a different case all together.


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## LUW

Whoa! Never imagined the 39 was so much bigger! 
The cases are very different, since the 39 has a HRV, while the 23 does not. Both have the same in-house Orient movement.


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## lunasonata

here's mine. it is a very solid, chunky and heavy watch.

unfortunately it doesn't have quick set for day, but i will live with it. everything else about it overwhelms that..:-!


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## lunasonata

here's one limited edition RM2 yellow version for sale at $1,500

http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,1461.0.html


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## LUW

After owning the RM3 for a few months, the thing that I really don't like about the watch is the loose bezel <|. No date quick set, no hacking and no hand-winding I can live with, but the loose bezel is a shame :roll:.


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## lunasonata

LUW said:


> After owning the RM3 for a few months, the thing that I really don't like about the watch is the loose bezel <|. No date quick set, no hacking and no hand-winding I can live with, but the loose bezel is a shame :roll:.


haha i guess it's ok with me, for now :-d


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## chessplayer

UpstandingCitizen said:


> Looks like this picture solves the pusher mystery...indeed there appear to be none. :-!
> 
> It also looks like the crown _might _be signed, although it's so hard to tell at that angle.
> 
> Another nice thing about this one in relation to Orient's other 45mm diver is the bigger (and nicely knurled) crown.
> 
> Does anyone else get the impression that the dial is jet black?
> 
> Man, this one's starting to grow on me. :-!


i believe the crown is signed with the signature O and it does appear to have a jet black face judging by the original pictures posted


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## watch.aholic

LUW said:


> (all pics are from *Robson Xavier*, from the _Relógios Mecânicos_ Forum)


By far the most beautiful Orient, IMO. What a pity, someone wants $500 for it and I still don't think it's worth that kind of money.


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## 20DYNAMITE07

Hey OrientwatchUSA... bring this bad boy Stateside! 
I'd buy one.


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## wswags1

I would buy at right price! Has a Seiko feel to it?


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## LUW

Almost, but not quite.
The lume is initially strong, but then fades rapidly, but the real problem is the loose bezel.


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## watch.aholic

LUW said:


> Almost, but not quite.
> The lume is initially strong, but then fades rapidly, but the real problem is the loose bezel.


Hey mate..since you are in Brazil you could enlighten us a bit...Is this still available there? If yes, how much does it sell there for?


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## LUW

I may be wrong, but I heard that it was discontinued at the end of 2010 :-(.
When it was easily available (it's been a while since I looked) it was going for something around US$ 350,00.


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