[Reaps]

Well, I think, fundamentally, you're leaving out a few things, and this is less to do with the material properties of ceramic and more with the advertisement (and) marketing of ceramic as a material in watch making.

Average layman probably won't understand material properties and the difference between brittleness and hardness. You can see that the way they speak about ceramic, they read "oh wow it's better than metal" and then when your lugs snap or you get chips on the case you feel lied to. You get the sense it's a bit deceptive. Most people are assuming you're buying something stronger, harder, "better" than steel, and don't research the negatives or prepare themselves for the potential issues that come with ceramic.

Not to mention, ceramic watches often have a hefty premium. So you're supposedly paying extra for this all invincible ceramic material. And then the prohibitive repair cost when it chips or breaks or cracks. Replacing an entire case or bracelet. It also doesn't suit the idea of this "timeless luxury piece" if every 10 years you have to replace the entire case and bracelet lol.

It's a cool gimmick, but a steel watch with hardness coating, or titanium watch with hardness coating can achieve the scratch resistance without the prohibitive cost. And it won't have the brittleness of ceramic.

It's hard to say about anything because everyone wears their watch differently. For most people who wear their watches normally you'll probably have no issues over a 5 year period. But for those who wear their watches hard (and these tend to be the people who might be attracted to the kind of material that ceramic is advertised as), ceramic may actually not be the end all solution and in fact a worse material for them.

"OMEGA ceramic watches are a feat in watchmaking, as well as a dazzling accent to all of your outfits! Created from powder, the ceramic material is built into extremely strong and resistant ceramic watch cases and ceramic bezels. This method creates wristwatches that are both extremely lightweight, as well as harder than any metal timepieces. A ceramic timepiece is scratch-resistant and will withstand the passing of the years with the most durable elegance. "

Ceramic Watches | OMEGA®

Discover the Ceramic Watches of the OMEGA® Collections, and find the perfect Ceramic Watch that will follow you for many years to come with flawless style!

www.omegawatches.com

"Color codes from the world of naval aviation, translated into eye-catching ceramic colors and striking monochrome watches: the “Colors of TOP GUN” collection combines the functional design and high robustness of IWC’s Pilot’s Watches with the company’s extensive know-how in advanced materials and case engineering. Created in collaboration with PANTONE®, the ceramic colors in this collection result from a complex manufacturing process. With its extreme hardness and high resistance to corrosion, ceramic is the perfect material for a watch that always has to perform on top of its game."

"Ceramics are lighter and harder than steel, scratch-resistant and have a velvety surface. These properties make it ideal for use in wristwatches. Technical ceramics are based on polycrystalline powders such as silicates, aluminium oxide or silicon carbide. They are mixed with additives, shaped to a so-called “green body”, machined close to the final geometry and then sintered at high temperatures in a kiln. During this process, the additives vaporize and leave behind extremely stable ceramic bodies. The manufacture of a ceramic watch case is particularly demanding because the material shrinks by about a third during the baking process. This shrinkage must be factored in as early as the design phase."

https://www.iwc.com/ww-en/specials/colored-ceramics

 

[Davekaye90]

I opened this thread thinking it would make me increase my interest in buying a ceramic watch which is an idea that has been rattling around in my head. Your ’broken watch‘ pics have left a searing image on my brain instead.

It wouldn't be such a big deal if the replacement cost of these cases wasn't insane. I wasn't exaggerating when I said Panerai will ask $8,000+ for a new case if you so much as get a small chip on one of their ceramic watches. Panerai is not eating that cost. You are.

If you have $8,000 lying around that you don't mind potentially burning because of a single accident, go for it. I'm going to pass. My black ion plated Seikos are visually indistinguishable from ceramic. They obviously weigh more since they're steel, but they look exactly the same. I don't worry about them because it's steel.

If for some reason one of them got scratched to hell, a new case is like $400 or so, which is likely cheaper than a complete refinish, though you can do that if you want to.

 

[Greggray]

Totally agree, modern ceramic is tough stuff. It’s the movement that'll give out first, not the case. Glad to see the myth finally getting cleared up.

 

[Medusa]

It's still ceramic. It's right up there with wood and 3D printed watches.

I think watch brands use ceramic because its cheap and has a higher profit margin.

 

[dirtvictim]

Brittle materials for cases? Nope, simply no reason for it.

 

[Gebbeth]

There is the material and then there is the manufacturing. They are inter-dependent.

Flaws that show up in manufacturing will always compromise the performance of the materials.

Ceramics are used in environments much tougher and violent than watch cases (like cylinder linings, jet engine fan blades, turbo charger turbines, etc).

However, fan blades do fail from time to time. They can almost always be traced to cracks that existed during manufacture but was too small to detect at the time.

If a material is too difficult to work with at a commercial scale because of the complexity of the manufacturing process, then manufacturers will move on from that material.

It does not look like watchmakers are going to move away from ceramics because of failures here and there. I think it’s one of those things where the examples of failure exist and are catastrophic, but not enough to not use the material because of all the positive aspects of that material.

It’s strange that people wax poetic about acrylic crystals because of the old school look and distortion even though they lack durability and hardness and scratch rather easily and have to be maintained and occasionally resurfaced.

Or you have others thinking that a 925 silver case is a good idea.

But ceramic is an inferior material. That I don’t get.

 

[TimelessEpoch]

There is the material and then there is the manufacturing. They are inter-dependent.

Flaws that show up in manufacturing will always compromise the performance of the materials.

Ceramics are used in environments much tougher and violent than watch cases (like cylinder linings, jet engine fan blades, turbo charger turbines, etc).

However, fan blades do fail from time to time. They can almost always be traced to cracks that existed during manufacture but was too small to detect at the time.

If a material is too difficult to work with at a commercial scale because of the complexity of the manufacturing process, then manufacturers will move on from that material.

It does not look like watchmakers are going to move away from ceramics because of failures here and there. I think it’s one of those things where the examples of failure exist and are catastrophic, but not enough to not use the material because of all the positive aspects of that material.

It’s strange that people wax poetic about acrylic crystals because of the old school look and distortion even though they lack durability and hardness and scratch rather easily and have to be maintained and occasionally resurfaced.

Or you have others thinking that a 925 silver case is a good idea.

But ceramic is an inferior material. That I don’t get.

I think you are confusing ceramic coatings with being made from ceramic. Unless you can name a production jet engine with solid ceramic blades within any stage.

 

[WatchEater666]

I think OLDER ceramic pieces like the ones pictures may have had issues. I haven't seen or had issues with any ceramic pieces personally. I wore a full on black ceramic Hublot integral for like ~4 to 7 months last year and had ZERO issues. It looked brand new the whole time. I wacked it on a few places accidentally and it looked fine. I would not hesitate to go ceramic.

 

[Pongster]

In a moment someone will be along to point out you do not wear a toilet on your wrist, or drop them

As they say: 💩 happens

 

[Geology Rocks]

Yes - Stainless steel, titanium, Gold, Bronze
No - carbon and ceramic

Thats my pick. yours may differ!

 

[roachjl]

I find this debate super interesting. All the pictures shown have been widely circulated and are trotted out whenever anyone wants to decry ceramic watches.
in none of these pics do we know the mechanism of damage. Did it fall from a height? How high? Did someone hit it with a hammer? We have no idea.

Some of the issue is that people equate ceramic with pottery and simply can’t believe that it’s not brittle. I am sure it is more brittle than steel. But what I am not sure is how damaged steel would be if subjected to the same forces that these ceramic watches were, because to be clear, we have no idea how much force was applied. But comparing the ceramic metal watches to a toilet seat or clay pot is absurd and either wildly ignorant or purposefully disingenuous.

And no, the watch companies don’t pay for repairs, but it’s certainly not in their interest to spend money developing a ceramic watch to have it break regularly and get a reputation as unreliable.

Personally, I think that sure these watches can break, but that’s the risks of that here are way overblown. And sure, the costs of replacing a ceramic case can be expensive, but it’s probably exceedingly rare. So if you like one, get it.

 

[Gebbeth]

I think you are confusing ceramic coatings with being made from ceramic. Unless you can name a production jet engine with solid ceramic blades within any stage.

Nope. GE LEAP engines use CMC for blades (Ceramic Matrix Composite).

First tested in military F414 engines on rotating elements, and not being used in these engines for the Super Hornet and commercial LEAP engines.

 

[MissileExpert]

I avoid ceramic watch cases, but a ceramic bezel I don't mind. A cracked bezel can be replaced. A cracked or chipped watch case - will that makes the watch pretty much toast.

 

[nicegator]

 

[sfnewguy]

This post came out of left field.

Why the zealotry?

Knock yourself out, buy up the ceramic cased watches, but don't think you're going to convince anyone, but for the lemmings to your viewpoint.

As another poster noted, ceramic cased watches are a gimmick, a very profitable gimmick for the brands that make and market them.

As stated in another post - ceramic cased watches are for people who don't know what to do with their money.

 

[doppleganger]

My goal in this post was to curtail the knee jerk reaction of claiming that ceramic watches are brittle.

Thats all.

At least when the usual suspects make that ridiculous claim from now on perhaps a few more people won’t jump on the bandwagon.

I can’t do anything about the people who didn’t bother to read my OP and instead decided to put words in my mouth claiming that I said ceramic watches can’t break.

Ir’s nice to hear the members who can think and reason things through, as well as read with comprehension and a calm mind.

This post is definitely exposing which is which.

 

[Davekaye90]

It's highly unlikely that rolled carbon fiber would de-laminate and shatter under pressure. Trust me bro, what's the worst that could happen?

I'll say again, drop ten Rados on concrete from chest height. Will they all survive that? That question has been dodged repeatedly, which seems to suggest you don't think they will.

I will happily drop 10,000 steel cases from the same height on to the same surface. Not a single one will shatter. Not one.

 

[DaleGribble]

I opened this thread thinking it would make me increase my interest in buying a ceramic watch which is an idea that has been rattling around in my head. Your ’broken watch‘ pics have left a searing image on my brain instead.

A picture is worth a thousand words. People can write all they want about ceramic being a good material for watches but the pictures tell the real story.

 

[SocalLefty68]

The article talks only about ceramic strength and not how brittle it is. The OP doesn’t seem to want anyone pointing out that while ceramic is very hard, it is also brittle.

Kitchen knives made of ceramic are great in terms of not needing sharpening like other metallic knives, but you can break them if you drop them on a hard floor. Still you will be out only a few hundred dollars at best. But if you have the misfortune to drop a luxury ceramic watch and it chips/breaks/cracks, you are going to be out several thousand dollars. I think that is the issue being pointed out by many posters here.

Each buyer of a ceramic watch can make his risk assessment decision between scratch resistance and breakage risk if dropped - watches do get dropped occasionally by consumers. My takeaway is that maybe I should be OK with buying a ceramic affordable watch where I can just throw it away in case I drop it and damage it without worrying about the money I spent on it. But I have become very leery about buying a ceramic watch from a luxury brand now where dropping the watch accidentally might put me out of several thousand dollars.

I have damaged bezels and crystals from dropping watches or knocking them on hard surfaces accidentally particularly while doing adventure sports including diving, sailing and biking. Ceramic watches are typically sports watches and so it is good of some posters to inform consumers like me to consider brittleness in addition to hardness when considering a ceramic watch.

 

[Davekaye90]

The article talks only about ceramic strength and not how brittle it is. The OP doesn’t seem to want anyone pointing out that while ceramic is very hard, it is also brittle.

Kitchen knives made of ceramic are great in terms of not needing sharpening like other metallic knives, but you can break them if you drop them on a hard floor. Still you will be out only a few hundred dollars at best. But if you have the misfortune to drop a luxury ceramic watch and it chips/breaks/cracks, you are going to be out several thousand dollars. I think that is the issue being pointed out by many posters here.

Each buyer of a ceramic watch can make his risk assessment decision between scratch resistance and breakage risk if dropped - watches do get dropped occasionally by consumers. My takeaway is that maybe I should be OK with buying a ceramic affordable watch where I can just throw it away in case I drop it and damage it without worrying about the money I spent on it. But I have become very leery about buying a ceramic watch from a luxury brand now where dropping the watch accidentally might put me out of several thousand dollars.

I have damaged bezels and crystals from dropping watches or knocking them on hard surfaces accidentally particularly while doing adventure sports including diving, sailing and biking. Ceramic watches are typically sports watches and so it is good of some posters to inform consumers like me to consider brittleness in addition to hardness when considering a ceramic watch.

It's basic material science. It has nothing to do with "myths" and "narratives" and spreading FUD about ceramic. The atomic structures are very different between metals and ceramics. Metals dent and bend, and therefore do not fail from compounded stress fractures. Ceramics, generally, don't do that. They develop microscopic stress fractures which can eventually lead to failure from cracking.

That's why you say, wouldn't want to make a two-handed greatsword out of ceramic. Hitting a steel greatsword against a shield will eventually blunt it, but it will survive just fine. A ceramic greatsword against a steel shield would likely shatter on impact.

Here you can see what happens when you cut into a kitchen knife with another kitchen knife at very high pressure. At 4:04 in the video is when the ceramic knife is tested. The $2 piece of crap knife has already survived two full pressure cuts, and will continue surviving, because that's how metals work.

At 4:31, you can see in the closeup what is happening to the ceramic. The metals peel into each other as they cut, while he ceramic chips away as more stress is put on it and the material fails. When ceramic knife is removed, it has a catastrophic failure and snaps in half, while the $2 steel knife is still perfectly fine, other than the cuts in it.

That's not a "myth" or a "narrative." You can literally watch it happen.