I think the issue is that it is ok or has failed, nothing in between. No polishing or laser welding is going to remove the missing chunk.

I accept that it is much stronger, until it isnt

 

And let’s see some pictures of “missing chunks,“and the repairs, of metal watches.
That argument is a non-starter.

You guys are the ones that perpetuate these myths.

 

No, ceramic watches are not fragile. The cases and bracelets survive hard impacts just fine.
The movements, like any other mechanical watch, do not, and will self destruct long before the ceramic does.

I've seen a few posted here with large chips and / or cracks in the cases, the movement was fine, but the cases were damaged. I do not believe your claim about the movements self destructing long before the ceramic is accurate.

 

If only these watches had read the article, they would've been fine! They would've realized that they don't break from impacts and therefore wouldn't have broken had they read the article. The article can't be wrong, you're not allowed to be wrong on the internet. It's illegal.

Ceramic, much like tungsten carbide, is extremely hard, making it very scratch resistant. Both are also extremely brittle when compared to bronze, steel, titanium, gold, etc. That's the fact. It's not a "narrative" - that's reality. I'm sure they can survive being smacked into something on a typical use case basis......right up until they can't and a lug snaps off.

The only way a lug would ever snap off of a steel case is if it was poorly welded on there. If that happens, the case is ruined, and the entire thing has to be replaced. On a luxury watch, that could be $5,000+ for a new case. If you want to sign up for that, knock yourself out, just take off your watch first because it'll break.

 

If only these watches had read the article, they would've been fine! They would've realized that they don't break from impacts and therefore wouldn't have broken had they read the article. The article can't be wrong, you're not allowed to be wrong on the internet. It's illegal.

Ceramic, much like tungsten carbide, is extremely hard, making it very scratch resistant. Both are also extremely brittle when compared to bronze, steel, titanium, gold, etc. That's the fact. It's not a "narrative" - that's reality. I'm sure they can survive being smacked into something on a typical use case basis......right up until they can't and a lug snaps off.

The only way a lug would ever snap off of a steel case is if it was poorly welded on there. If that happens, the case is ruined, and the entire thing has to be replaced. On a luxury watch, that could be $5,000+ for a new case. If you want to sign up for that, knock yourself out, just take off your watch first because it'll break.

 

Ouch, those pictures make my eyes hurt

 

The irony is that relatively cheap DLC coating can look pretty much identical to ceramic. You can have DLC in brushed, polished, or matte finish, or any combination of those. DLC is a fair bit more scratch resistant than uncoated steel, but obviously it can scratch. You're never going to shatter a DLC case, and the coating if necessary can be removed and re-applied.

A single chip on a ceramic case means you either live with that chip and hope it doesn't get worse (or totally compromise the water resistance depending on where it is) or you essentially get a new watch.

 

And sapphire crystals crack and chip too, yet, watchmakers keep using the material. There are thousands of pictures, and claims, of broken, and chipped sapphire crystals. Nobody blinks an eye about that. It’s a fantastic part of the tradeoff of scratch resistance and clarity compared to an acrylic crystal.

There are exceptions, of course. My point is that the ongoing dialog about ceramic watches being fragile simply isn’t true.
Rado would be out of business, or would at least have abandoned the idea decades ago if these myths were true. And no manufacturer would risk their reputation, and business, if this material was fragile in the least.

A few people have said they cracked their ceramic bezel inserts, probably true. However, what percentage of these broke? Probably a fraction, of a fraction, of a percent.

Rolex, and the rest, have no problem offering (thin) ceramic bezels. They are confident in the durability of the material.

The reason most manufacturers don’t use ceramics is due to the high cost, not the perceived fragility of the material.

 

And sapphire crystals crack and chip too, yet, watchmakers keep using the material.

There are exceptions, of course. My point is that the ongoing dialog about ceramic watches being fragile simply isn’t true.
Mido would be out of business, or would at least have abandoned the idea decades ago if these myths were true. And no manufacturer would risk their reputation, and business, if this material was fragile in the least.

Do you think brands ever pay for broken sapphire crystals, or chipped or broken ceramic cases? Why would Mido be out of business? They don't pay a dime to replace your case. You do. A shattered ceramic case is not a warranty repair.

What costs brands money are warranty repairs. I'm sure Panerai would be very sorry to hear that you dropped your ceramic Radiomir, and it shattered. I'm sure they would be more than happy to replace the case, if you'll just kindly send them $8,000, they'll get straight on that.

 

If brands have reasonable fixed cost case replacement I think people would be more accepting of Cermamic/Carbon Fibre


Someone on the Panerai forum had a lug snap off and the price was sickening

 

Ceramic certainly has its place in a civilized society…

…but my wrist is not one of them.

.

 

In a moment someone will be along to point out you do not wear a toilet on your wrist, or drop them

 

No pic of the damage but I put a small chip in a link when the pin punch slipped. Hardly noticeable but still there.

When I first got this I babied. Now I wear it to work. If it's gonna break its gonna break. Life is too short.to worry

 

View attachment 19336651
No pic of the damage but I put a small chip in a link when the pin punch slipped. Hardly noticeable but still there.

When I first got this I babied. Now I wear it to work. If it's gonna break its gonna break. Life is too short.to worry

See, the difference between Rado and, say, Panerai is that Rado uses shapes that are safer for ceramic, with softer edges and few-to-zero sharp angles. That’s where you’d (normally) get your chips and cracks.

Seems like watch manufacturers are the only ones who try using ceramic with the exact same designs as their steel products. It doesn’t make sense to me even though I’m not a materials engineer.

 

If you like ceramic, buy ceramic. Other people’s perspectives and evidence of fragility should not have an impact on you.

Unless you have a financial interest in the sale of ceramic watches, I don’t see the need for such ferocious defense of the material.

 

Unless you have a financial interest in the sale of ceramic watches, I don’t see the need for such ferocious defense of the material.

I do not see the the need for such ferocious attacking of the material which is commonplace.

The crowd I am refering to are the ones that consistently parrot the line, “ Just don’t drop one or it will shatter”

But by all means, give a big thumbs up to anyone who posts a comment like that, you know as much as they do I guess.

 

So a ceramic seller telling us ceramic is more durable than we give them credit for ...

Yea no thanks.

 

I like dark beer in ceramic containers

 

😁I gotta say, I didn't see it coming this time.

 

Every one of the applications linked in that blog post also warn about ceramic’s brittleness.

Ceramic Bearings vs. Steel Bearings: Which One Offers the Best Value? - GGSCERAMIC
[quote)Limitations of Ceramic Bearings

• Brittleness: Although ceramic materials have high hardness, they are brittle and will break when subjected to some impact or severe vibration. Therefore, special attention should be paid to avoid strong impact when using them.
• Cost: The cost of ceramic bearings is higher than that of steel bearings.
• Precision assembly: Ceramic bearings have high precision and require more precise processing and assembly technology. They may not be suitable for some low-precision applications.”[/quote]

A Comprehensive Guide to Ceramic Knives - GGSCERAMIC

The emergence of ceramic knives is an important revolution in modern kitchen knives. If you are a cooking enthusiast, then a new functional knife will definitely attract your attention.With the develo…

ggsceramic.com

• Fragile: Ceramic knives are fragile and are more suitable for handling some delicate slicing work, while steel knives can be used for chopping, cutting, twisting, smashing, and prying. It can be seen that ceramic knives cannot completely replace all the functions of steel knives.

 

Every one of the applications linked in that blog post also warn about ceramic’s brittleness.

Ceramic Bearings vs. Steel Bearings: Which One Offers the Best Value? - GGSCERAMIC
[quote)Limitations of Ceramic Bearings

• Brittleness: Although ceramic materials have high hardness, they are brittle and will break when subjected to some impact or severe vibration. Therefore, special attention should be paid to avoid strong impact when using them.
• Cost: The cost of ceramic bearings is higher than that of steel bearings.
• Precision assembly: Ceramic bearings have high precision and require more precise processing and assembly technology. They may not be suitable for some low-precision applications.”

A Comprehensive Guide to Ceramic Knives - GGSCERAMIC

The emergence of ceramic knives is an important revolution in modern kitchen knives. If you are a cooking enthusiast, then a new functional knife will definitely attract your attention.With the develo…

ggsceramic.com

[/QUOTE]
You left out the part about dental crowns.
Yea, no violent pressures, or contact there…….

 

The real limitation with ceramic is repairability.

 

My ceramic dental crown cracked and shattered after seven years. never again, gold from now on. There was no warranty on it either.

 

It was probably cheaper than a new case?

 

Well, I think, fundamentally, you're leaving out a few things, and this is less to do with the material properties of ceramic and more with the advertisement (and) marketing of ceramic as a material in watch making.

Average layman probably won't understand material properties and the difference between brittleness and hardness. You can see that the way they speak about ceramic, they read "oh wow it's better than metal" and then when your lugs snap or you get chips on the case you feel lied to. You get the sense it's a bit deceptive. Most people are assuming you're buying something stronger, harder, "better" than steel, and don't research the negatives or prepare themselves for the potential issues that come with ceramic.

Not to mention, ceramic watches often have a hefty premium. So you're supposedly paying extra for this all invincible ceramic material. And then the prohibitive repair cost when it chips or breaks or cracks. Replacing an entire case or bracelet. It also doesn't suit the idea of this "timeless luxury piece" if every 10 years you have to replace the entire case and bracelet lol.

It's a cool gimmick, but a steel watch with hardness coating, or titanium watch with hardness coating can achieve the scratch resistance without the prohibitive cost. And it won't have the brittleness of ceramic.

It's hard to say about anything because everyone wears their watch differently. For most people who wear their watches normally you'll probably have no issues over a 5 year period. But for those who wear their watches hard (and these tend to be the people who might be attracted to the kind of material that ceramic is advertised as), ceramic may actually not be the end all solution and in fact a worse material for them.

"OMEGA ceramic watches are a feat in watchmaking, as well as a dazzling accent to all of your outfits! Created from powder, the ceramic material is built into extremely strong and resistant ceramic watch cases and ceramic bezels. This method creates wristwatches that are both extremely lightweight, as well as harder than any metal timepieces. A ceramic timepiece is scratch-resistant and will withstand the passing of the years with the most durable elegance. "

Ceramic Watches | OMEGA®

Discover the Ceramic Watches of the OMEGA® Collections, and find the perfect Ceramic Watch that will follow you for many years to come with flawless style!

www.omegawatches.com

"Color codes from the world of naval aviation, translated into eye-catching ceramic colors and striking monochrome watches: the “Colors of TOP GUN” collection combines the functional design and high robustness of IWC’s Pilot’s Watches with the company’s extensive know-how in advanced materials and case engineering. Created in collaboration with PANTONE®, the ceramic colors in this collection result from a complex manufacturing process. With its extreme hardness and high resistance to corrosion, ceramic is the perfect material for a watch that always has to perform on top of its game."

"Ceramics are lighter and harder than steel, scratch-resistant and have a velvety surface. These properties make it ideal for use in wristwatches. Technical ceramics are based on polycrystalline powders such as silicates, aluminium oxide or silicon carbide. They are mixed with additives, shaped to a so-called “green body”, machined close to the final geometry and then sintered at high temperatures in a kiln. During this process, the additives vaporize and leave behind extremely stable ceramic bodies. The manufacture of a ceramic watch case is particularly demanding because the material shrinks by about a third during the baking process. This shrinkage must be factored in as early as the design phase."

https://www.iwc.com/ww-en/specials/colored-ceramics

 

Totally agree, modern ceramic is tough stuff. It’s the movement that'll give out first, not the case. Glad to see the myth finally getting cleared up.

 

It's still ceramic. It's right up there with wood and 3D printed watches.

I think watch brands use ceramic because its cheap and has a higher profit margin.

 

Brittle materials for cases? Nope, simply no reason for it.

 

There is the material and then there is the manufacturing. They are inter-dependent.

Flaws that show up in manufacturing will always compromise the performance of the materials.

Ceramics are used in environments much tougher and violent than watch cases (like cylinder linings, jet engine fan blades, turbo charger turbines, etc).

However, fan blades do fail from time to time. They can almost always be traced to cracks that existed during manufacture but was too small to detect at the time.

If a material is too difficult to work with at a commercial scale because of the complexity of the manufacturing process, then manufacturers will move on from that material.

It does not look like watchmakers are going to move away from ceramics because of failures here and there. I think it’s one of those things where the examples of failure exist and are catastrophic, but not enough to not use the material because of all the positive aspects of that material.

It’s strange that people wax poetic about acrylic crystals because of the old school look and distortion even though they lack durability and hardness and scratch rather easily and have to be maintained and occasionally resurfaced.

Or you have others thinking that a 925 silver case is a good idea.

But ceramic is an inferior material. That I don’t get.

 

I think you are confusing ceramic coatings with being made from ceramic. Unless you can name a production jet engine with solid ceramic blades within any stage.

 

I think OLDER ceramic pieces like the ones pictures may have had issues. I haven't seen or had issues with any ceramic pieces personally. I wore a full on black ceramic Hublot integral for like ~4 to 7 months last year and had ZERO issues. It looked brand new the whole time. I wacked it on a few places accidentally and it looked fine. I would not hesitate to go ceramic.

 

Yes - Stainless steel, titanium, Gold, Bronze
No - carbon and ceramic

Thats my pick. yours may differ!

 

I find this debate super interesting. All the pictures shown have been widely circulated and are trotted out whenever anyone wants to decry ceramic watches.
in none of these pics do we know the mechanism of damage. Did it fall from a height? How high? Did someone hit it with a hammer? We have no idea.

Some of the issue is that people equate ceramic with pottery and simply can’t believe that it’s not brittle. I am sure it is more brittle than steel. But what I am not sure is how damaged steel would be if subjected to the same forces that these ceramic watches were, because to be clear, we have no idea how much force was applied. But comparing the ceramic metal watches to a toilet seat or clay pot is absurd and either wildly ignorant or purposefully disingenuous.

And no, the watch companies don’t pay for repairs, but it’s certainly not in their interest to spend money developing a ceramic watch to have it break regularly and get a reputation as unreliable.

Personally, I think that sure these watches can break, but that’s the risks of that here are way overblown. And sure, the costs of replacing a ceramic case can be expensive, but it’s probably exceedingly rare. So if you like one, get it.

 

I find this debate super interesting. All the pictures shown have been widely circulated and are trotted out whenever anyone wants to decry ceramic watches.
in none of these pics do we know the mechanism of damage. Did it fall from a height? How high? Did someone hit it with a hammer? We have no idea.

Some of the issue is that people equate ceramic with pottery and simply can’t believe that it’s not brittle. I am sure it is more brittle than steel. But what I am not sure is how damaged steel would be if subjected to the same forces that these ceramic watches were, because to be clear, we have no idea how much force was applied. But comparing the ceramic metal watches to a toilet seat or clay pot is absurd and either wildly ignorant or purposefully disingenuous.

And no, the watch companies don’t pay for repairs, but it’s certainly not in their interest to spend money developing a ceramic watch to have it break regularly and get a reputation as unreliable.

Personally, I think that sure these watches can break, but that’s the risks of that here are way overblown. And sure, the costs of replacing a ceramic case can be expensive, but it’s probably exceedingly rare. So if you like one, get it.

Ceramic, any ceramic, is the very definition of brittle. A brittle material is one that fractures before it undergoes plastic deformation. That's every ceramic. Brittle is the opposite of ductile, which are materials that can undergo significant plastic deformation without fracture (think aluminum foil or copper wire)

Brittle does not mean a material is weak or fragile. Zirconium Oxide is quite strong. 2 or 3 times the strength of 300 series stainless steel both in tension and compression. But strength alone isn't the full story.

 

I avoid ceramic watch cases, but a ceramic bezel I don't mind. A cracked bezel can be replaced. A cracked or chipped watch case - will that makes the watch pretty much toast.

 

 

This post came out of left field.

Why the zealotry?

Knock yourself out, buy up the ceramic cased watches, but don't think you're going to convince anyone, but for the lemmings to your viewpoint.

As another poster noted, ceramic cased watches are a gimmick, a very profitable gimmick for the brands that make and market them.

As stated in another post - ceramic cased watches are for people who don't know what to do with their money.